# Ryzen Owners Zen Garden



## the54thvoid (Mar 19, 2017)

I'm posting this in case anyone wants a Ryzen thread for troubleshooting and guidance.  As someone with a build about to happen, I have a feeling I might need some help. New wave of CPU'S means teething probs.
So, feedback on BIOS issues, memory hints and general tweaks could be useful. 

Trolls are welcome because frankly, I don't mind a fight.  I've moved from a stalwart i7 3930k to a completely alien and 'untested' environment. I put my money where someone elses mouth was.

Let's make Ryzen a trouble free experience...


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## psyko12 (Mar 19, 2017)

Subbing / Posting to the thread:

I went Ryzen 7 1700x + Gigabyte GA-AX370-Gaming K7 and some 16 GB G. Skill Trident Z's, was targeting ASUS ROG CH6 but alas suppliers here were not able to get a hold of it.  It was selling like pancakes, out of stock and they only bundle the proc and mobo here due to limited availability. It's either GB or MSI, I went and chose GB because it has served me well on my FX build. So why not with Ryzen.

But won't be able to post much since I haven't put them together yet. Still waiting for Noctua's mail for the am4 mounting kit. (Free is good )

Hoping to see/hear feedbacks from people who use or got the same board as I do. (Have not seen any reviews yet.)
This is my upgrade from my specs <--- Just replaced board ram and proc.

And soon upgrading gpu but I would like to play only at 1080p maybe at a higher refresh rate in the future.
Maybe VEGA or RX 5xx or maybe just a GTX1070.

EDIT: Or get an RX480 8gb now do me any good in the long run? (Thinking this is more of a sidegrade, considering the price of what I paid for my G1 Gaming GTX970 when it first came out vs. the price of the RX480... Php 21,000 vs 14,000 and now the 970 here sells like 8-10,000 pesos second hand...)


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## PerfectWave (Mar 19, 2017)

vega and ryzen will do damn good cos of infinity fabric


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## BiggieShady (Mar 19, 2017)

This article may help in finding best memory kit http://www.legitreviews.com/ddr4-me...latform-best-memory-kit-amd-ryzen-cpus_192259


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## psyko12 (Mar 19, 2017)

Upon reading some articles Ryzen plays well with some of those Samsung B-Dies and does ram manufacturers still print if they're single rank or dual rank rams on the packaging or stickers?


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## cadaveca (Mar 19, 2017)

psyko12 said:


> Upon reading some articles Ryzen plays well with some of those Samsung B-Dies and does ram manufacturers still print if they're single rank or dual rank rams on the packaging or stickers?


Nope, which makes finding the right sticks a bit difficult. I can say, if you buy some G.SKill 3200 MHz C14 sticks, you should not have any problems. There are some kits ready for Ryzen from G.Skill already; at least, I have some they sent me, so I assume they will be in stores soon if not already.


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## psyko12 (Mar 19, 2017)

cadaveca said:


> Nope, which makes finding the right sticks a bit difficult. I can say, if you buy some G.SKill 3200 MHz C14 sticks, you should not have any problems. There are some kits ready for Ryzen from G.Skill already; at least, I have some they sent me, so I assume they will be in stores soon if not already.



I hope the one I bought works without issue or runs fine can't remember the product code will update once I get home. It's one of those Trident Z's non RGB in the silver black flavor. 

I saw they release like FlareX or something like that with AMD compatibility.


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## cadaveca (Mar 19, 2017)

I have 3200 14-14-14-34 working perfectly; just enabled XMP and it works. I am using ASRock Taichi board.

I also have some 3600 MHz C16 sticks from G.SKill; the RGB ones; they work @ 3200 C16 by just enabling XMPas well; will try pushing higher, since the 3600 MHz divider offered in the BIOS I have now doesn't seem to work/isn't available.

I actually like Ryzen A LOT, issues at launch were minor for me.

And yes, the FlareX 3200 MHz C14 sticks are what I have, and they work great.


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## qubit (Mar 19, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> Trolls are welcome because frankly, I don't mind a fight.


Right, you asked for it! 

But seriously, I wouldn't mind a 16 thread PC myself and if high framerates in gaming weren't so important to me, then the slight deficit there isn't so important really.

What really puts me off are those serious system bugs which I think are unacceptable for something that you're gonna dop over a grand on when you factor mobo and RAM in. @W1zzard's *review summary* pretty much echoes how I feel about the current state of the platform. I hope you manage to get a combination of hardware that minimizes these problems if you don't want to wait for the bugs to be ironed out first.


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## cadaveca (Mar 19, 2017)

qubit said:


> Right, you asked for it!
> 
> But seriously, I wouldn't mind a 16 thread PC myself and if high framerates in gaming weren't so important to me, then the slight deficit there isn't so important really.
> 
> What really puts me off are those serious system bugs which I think are unacceptable for something that you're gonna dop over a grand on when you factor mobo and RAM in. @W1zzard's *review summary* pretty much echoes how I feel about the current state of the platform. I hope you manage to get a combination of hardware that minimizes these problems if you don't want to wait for the bugs to be ironed out first.


I think you need to place the blame for W1zzard's issues on his board, and not the CPU. ASRock Taichi worked perfectly from first boot, ZERO problems even before launch day, and it has only gotten better. So, Gigabyte's Ryzen BIOSes are poopy, not the system.  Place the blame where it belongs, and that's firmly on Gigabyte. It doesn't help that AMD sent him crap ram, too.


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## qubit (Mar 19, 2017)

cadaveca said:


> I think you need to place the blame for W1zzard's issues on his board, and not the CPU. ASRock Taichi worked perfectly from first boot, ZERO problems even before launch day, and it has only gotten better. So, Gigabyte's Ryzen BIOSes are poopy.


Oh yeah, it's the board all right rather than the CPU itself, but it's really up to AMD to ensure that all the vendor's products work properly at launch. This is something that W1z said so himself, so it's not just little old me thinking this.

Sounds like that trouble-free ASRock board could be one for 54th to get, maybe.


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## cadaveca (Mar 19, 2017)

qubit said:


> but it's really up to AMD to ensure that all the vendor's products work properly at launch.


He only said that because AMD sent him the Gigabyte board. Yet clearly, AMD assumed that Gigabyte had their shit together, and was let down. Gigabyte isn't the only offender here either; ASRock just had their ducks all in a row for me, so my opinion is a bit different. Had I got the box from AMD like he did, I would have probably felt the same way, but since my experience was vastly different, my opinion about things differs as well. I was running 3200 MHz memory with ease, as mentioned above. W1zz should have had the same experience, and AMD should have taken the time to pre-test stuff before shipping to reviewers, and clearly did not, and that is on them for sure, but once you remove the AMD samples from the picture, and take, for example, my own launch-day fun, it is very easy to see who screwed things up here, and it wasn't but a single employee @ AMD (well, maybe two) who handed out those samples, and the board makers who had immature BIOSes, and then took time to provide updates (ASRock had updated BIOS well before launch day for me).

So, ASRock gave me CPU and board, and I chose my own memory from the sets I have on-hand, and I had no issues. ASRock did the right thing, and it seems they knew it. My review of this board will be done soon; I have taken great care in my testing and making sure I had other compatible hardware. AMD should have done the same, but did not, but we can only blame those that chose the parts for those boxes sent by AMD; not the entire company.


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## psyko12 (Mar 19, 2017)

cadaveca said:


> I have 3200 14-14-14-34 working perfectly; just enabled XMP and it works. I am using ASRock Taichi board.
> 
> I also have some 3600 MHz C16 sticks from G.SKill; the RGB ones; they work @ 3200 C16 by just enabling XMPas well; will try pushing higher, since the 3600 MHz divider offered in the BIOS I have now doesn't seem to work/isn't available.
> 
> ...



Well hearing that gives me a bit of assurance hahaha.. Hopefully when I get everything together I can run them at their rated speeds and once I find it ok. Will try to OC to atleast boost speeds for all core 24/7 usage. But for now local post please don't fail me. I need that mounting kit ASAP


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## qubit (Mar 19, 2017)

Cad, yeah I'll buy that explanation, especially as it doesn't let AMD wholesale off the hook. Looking forward to your review. 

The other thing that foxes me is that SMT scheduler bug in W10, especially when it's not present in W7. How the hell did that manage to sneak in?! I mean, it's not like Microsoft only just saw Ryzen at the last minute and weren't able to fix it. Also, I'm surprised that there isn't a patch for it yet.


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## the54thvoid (Mar 19, 2017)

cadaveca said:


> I have 3200 14-14-14-34 working perfectly; just enabled XMP and it works.



Comforting to hear - I've bought the exact same (though due to stock in UK went for RGB option but they are F4-3200C14D-16TZ variants).  Hopefully get them tomorrow and then I'll wait till I have a new gfx card too.  I'll try the XMP option (if applicable on the crosshair, failing that I believe it has it's own preset).


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## cadaveca (Mar 20, 2017)

qubit said:


> The other thing that foxes me is that SMT scheduler bug in W10, especially when it's not present in W7. How the hell did that manage to sneak in?! I mean, it's not like Microsoft only just saw Ryzen at the last minute and weren't able to fix it. Also, I'm surprised that there isn't a patch for it yet.


W10 is a bit heavier load-wise than W7, so while it might be a bit weird, it makes perfect sense to me. While people may be overall happier with W10 since its launch, to me, there isn't much difference today than when W10 first came out, and people complained about the load W10 had vs W7 then, and now we see it here again? Perhaps Ryzen is just that little bit more sensitive to this workload because of its cache organization? You can look back and find many reports of W7 being faster than W10, and you'll find benchers choosing W7 instead of W10 for some things (if XP is not available)... ever since W10 came out.

I said before, some things just can't be fixed, and then later AMD agrees. Go figure.  Intel Conspirators, UNITE!!! The SMT bug is real!!!


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## psyko12 (Mar 20, 2017)

Hmmm I'm tempted by those shiny lights but I doubt this kit will work for my giga x370 k7.

I currently got
https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14d-16gtzsk

I can still swap it to

G.Skill Trident Z RGB 16GB (8GBX2) DDR4 3000 F4-3000C16D-16GTZR

Hmmm they differ from mhz and timings


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## Aenra (Mar 20, 2017)

I love the title! Here's a like 

And a question.. i plan on surprising my dad, build him a Ryzen rig for his birthday (he's a damn fanboy.. hardcore.. as i mentioned elsewhere, what with his age, it's either tragic or funny, you decide).
What i'm wondering is:

- If i plug an NVMe on a vertical PCIe x3.0 friendly mount, and then plug the mount into the mobo's PCIe 3.0 slot, will it run @ 3.0 x4?
Has anyone tried it?

(the GPU i will be slotting on the 2.0 x8, he doesn't play games ^^)


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## cadaveca (Mar 20, 2017)

@Aenra  Just use a board with onboard M.2 port, don't worry about using add-in card!


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## Aenra (Mar 20, 2017)

cadaveca said:


> @Aenra  Just use a board with onboard M.2 port, don't worry about using add-in card!



The mobo's 'native' slot is @2.0 x4, hence my asking.


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## m0nt3 (Mar 20, 2017)

cadaveca said:


> I think you need to place the blame for W1zzard's issues on his board, and not the CPU. ASRock Taichi worked perfectly from first boot, ZERO problems even before launch day, and it has only gotten better. So, Gigabyte's Ryzen BIOSes are poopy, not the system.  Place the blame where it belongs, and that's firmly on Gigabyte. It doesn't help that AMD sent him crap ram, too.



Did W1zzard have the Corsair Vengence LPX 3200 or 3000? I just ordered some Vengence LPX 3200 as it was listed on a press release from AMD and on the QVL list from ASUS *Crosshair VI Hero). I bought some G.Skill Ripjaws 5 Hynix 2800 on sale single rank and it wont do anything over 2133. Very rarely it will post at 2400 once it posted at 2666 but usually on reboot i get error 55 on the diagnostic LED or it will just power itself on and off again, even at 2133 on rare occassion. Hoping the new RAM resolves some issue. Also been getting some random hard locks.


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## cdawall (Mar 20, 2017)

The asrock board is far from perfect I saw just as many annoyances with it as I have with the Asus board, minus the bricking issue with Asus right now.

Does the Asrock allow 3600mhz ram in your testing? I haven't gotten of 3200 stable when I tested


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## phanbuey (Mar 20, 2017)

the tridentz 3200 mhz are the bomb... they are posting on the x370 prime at 3200 cl

unfortunately the board tops out at 3200... so meh.


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## cadaveca (Mar 20, 2017)

cdawall said:


> The asrock board is far from perfect I saw just as many annoyances with it as I have with the Asus board, minus the bricking issue with Asus right now.
> 
> Does the Asrock allow 3600mhz ram in your testing? I haven't gotten of 3200 stable when I tested


What issues? Maybe I can try to replicate, and of course, I can get in touch with ASRock and maybe get 'em fixed. 3200 is rock stable, 3600 only with bus OC right now. Just about to flash BIOS though, see if that gives me more mem multis. I got sticks rated all the way up to 3866 MHz to try.

Haven't got ASUS AMD boards yet, but that's because I have huge backlog of Z270 reviews; they sent me 5 boards all at once (3 ROG, 2 STRIX, never mind boards from ASRock, MSI and Biostar). 



m0nt3 said:


> Did W1zzard have the Corsair Vengence LPX 3200 or 3000? I just ordered some Vengence LPX 3200 as it was listed on a press release from AMD and on the QVL list from ASUS *Crosshair VI Hero). I bought some G.Skill Ripjaws 5 Hynix 2800 on sale single rank and it wont do anything over 2133. Very rarely it will post at 2400 once it posted at 2666 but usually on reboot i get error 55 on the diagnostic LED or it will just power itself on and off again, even at 2133 on rare occassion. Hoping the new RAM resolves some issue. Also been getting some random hard locks.



Yeah, you'll have to refer to QVL lists for now to be safe, and without the same board to test, I cannot confirm nor deny anything as stable.  Not sure what sticks he had exactly, although it should be listed in the review you would think...



Aenra said:


> The mobo's 'native' slot is @2.0 x4, hence my asking.



Ah. I'll have to pull out my adapter and try that, but you'd think it'd work fine. On the ASRock Taichi, SM961 is as fast as it is on Intel, and faster than _some_ of those Intel boards too.


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## cdawall (Mar 20, 2017)

cadaveca said:


> What issues? Maybe I can try to replicate, and of course, I can get in touch with ASRock and maybe get 'em fixed. 3200 is rock stable, 3600 only with bus OC right now. Just about to flash BIOS though, see if that gives me more mem multis. I got sticks rated all the way up to 3866 MHz to try.
> 
> Haven't got ASUS AMD boards yet, but that's because I have huge backlog of Z270 reviews; they sent me 5 boards all at once (3 ROG, 2 STRIX, never mind boards from ASRock, MSI and Biostar).



I want to say it was all settings being set in the BIOS and not actually setting, plus the normal dumb issues I was having (semi-similar to Asus's board). Mind you I really didn't play with it more than an hour that board wasn't for me was a custom build that was already paid for and I quite honestly didn't want to kill it


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## cadaveca (Mar 20, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I want to say it was all settings being set in the BIOS and not actually setting, plus the normal dumb issues I was having (semi-similar to Asus's board). Mind you I really didn't play with it more than an hour that board wasn't for me was a custom build that was already paid for and I quite honestly didn't want to kill it


OK, yeah, I did check that since it is a commonly reported issue, but is not present for me. Might be BIOS-version-related.


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## OneCool (Mar 20, 2017)

Loving this!!

It's real people giving the answers we want!!


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## Aenra (Mar 20, 2017)

cadaveca said:


> Ah. I'll have to pull out my adapter and try that, but you'd think it'd work fine



Man, i would really appreciate that 
I'm not being lazy, i'd just prefer to avoid buying a mounting platform only to learn it's a no go either way.

As to the 'you'd think it'd work fine', not so sure. Depends on the mobo's chip, doesn't it? Speaking of which, which AsRock are you currently using? Would like to go have a look at its specs, see if it states 2.0 x4 or 3.0 x4 support for NVMes.


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## cadaveca (Mar 20, 2017)

This one:

http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X370 Taichi/

*



			ASRock Ultra M.2 (PCIe Gen3 x4 & SATA3)
		
Click to expand...

*


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## Aenra (Mar 20, 2017)

Wait.. read this, your mobo, under Specification -> Storage:
- 1 x M.2 Socket (M2_2), supports M Key type 2230/2242/2260/2280 M.2 PCI Express module *up to Gen2 x4* (20 Gb/s)*

This is exactly what the one i'm looking at states too (Gigabyte K7 or something, their current top tier).


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## cadaveca (Mar 20, 2017)

Aenra said:


> Wait.. read this, your mobo:
> - 1 x M.2 Socket (M2_2), supports M Key type 2230/2242/2260/2280 M.2 PCI Express module *up to Gen2 x4* (20 Gb/s)*


Yes, it has two slots; one is PCIe 3.0, the other is PCIe 2.0.



That's why I provided the link. You can also see that it supports Using a PCIe adapter card in all the x16 3.0 slots as boot device.



> *Supports NVMe SSD as boot disks


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## Aenra (Mar 20, 2017)

Oh, am i being dumb? 
I thought gen2 x4 means PCIe 2.0 x4? Way i read it is that it has one slot, running at said speed..

(don't be shy to tell me i am, lol)


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## cadaveca (Mar 20, 2017)

Aenra said:


> Oh, am i being dumb?
> I thought gen2 x4 means PCIe 2.0 x4?
> 
> (don't be shy to tell me i am, lol)




Yeah, you might want to read a bit more from the specification page.  Or look at the picture of the board on the page I linked... you are reading the specs of the bottom M.2 port, which IS slower for sure, but the upper slot is a full speed PCIe 3.0 x4 slot.


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## Aenra (Mar 20, 2017)

Aaah, yeah, it's different on AsRocks, i see it now. They differentiate between the Ultra (which they don't even list under /Storage) and the slower one, hence my confusion.

..why would they post them under separate categories.. hard drives_ are_ storage..

But anyway, thanks. Now i can narrow it down at least, either the new AsRock, or the new top tier Gigabyte. Mounting notwithstanding


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## Super XP (Mar 20, 2017)

PerfectWave said:


> vega and ryzen will do damn good cos of infinity fabric


That's right. I am curious to see if this gives a AMD build an advantage. AMD stated anything developed in 2017 and beyond has Infinity Fabric.  
Runs at the speed of DDR4 Ram. AMD updating the memory multiplier in May I believe, to have Ryzen support faster Ram speeds in excess of 3200. I've heard 3400 to 4000.


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## bencrutz (Mar 20, 2017)

will be a busy week


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## Aenra (Mar 20, 2017)

https://siliconlottery.com/collections/frontpage/products/1800x41g

To buy, or not to buy, that is the question.


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## pantherx12 (Mar 20, 2017)

Subbed :

Going to watch and learn from you early adopters then maybe grab Ryzen in a few months. 

Hopefully in a laptop form factor  


Hopefully Ryzen will be as fun to overclock as my fx8150


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## cdawall (Mar 20, 2017)

cadaveca said:


> OK, yeah, I did check that since it is a commonly reported issue, but is not present for me. Might be BIOS-version-related.



I will give the board another shot at work. I mean it can't go any worse than any of the other boards I have played with. Here is top hoping I had one off problems.


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## thebluebumblebee (Mar 20, 2017)

psyko12 said:


> Or get an RX480 8gb now


Normally, AMD does a pretty good job making the generation 2 cards better than the first generation.  IIRC, those are just around the corner, so I would think that now would be a less than ideal time to buy a RX480.


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## f22a4bandit (Mar 20, 2017)

I'm planning to upgrade with the launch of the R5 series. I've been looking everywhere for the ASRock AB350m, but it doesn't look like it's been released yet. I wish there were more mATX options aside from Gigabyte and MSi at the moment.


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## phanbuey (Mar 20, 2017)

MSI boards are looking like the best clockers from random online blurbs


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## cdawall (Mar 20, 2017)

phanbuey said:


> MSI boards are looking like the best clockers from random online blurbs



They haven't been the best clockers according to any of the records held right now...


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## DeathtoGnomes (Mar 20, 2017)

cdawall said:


> They haven't been the best clockers according to any of the records held right now...


I think he meant for current/recent Ryzen builds, that MSI has had a but more overall success (or less issues if your glass is half-full). Although I expect better boards and out-of-box BIOS's next quarter.


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## m0nt3 (Mar 21, 2017)

My Corsair Vengence LPX 3200 arrived in today. with BIOS 1001 I am at least able to get 2666 to boot consistently with out to many issues thus far. No higher however.


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## cadaveca (Mar 21, 2017)

m0nt3 said:


> My Corsair Vengence LPX 3200 arrived in today. with BIOS 1001 I am at least able to get 2666 to boot consistently with out to many issues thus far. No higher however.


Next time, buy G.Skill.


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## Super XP (Mar 21, 2017)

Look at Post 287. 
Might interest all Ryzen owners. Something about a 30-35% performance increase after a Windows 10 update. 

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/amd-ryzen-discussion-thread.231316/page-12#post-3624008


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## m0nt3 (Mar 21, 2017)

cadaveca said:


> Next time, buy G.Skill.


Thats what I had, just the cheaper stuff (rip jaws V), I just couldn't justify the extra $50 to get the trident z (and the heatspreaders are way to tall if I wanted to go with my Phanteks cooler) And the flare x is even more expensive and out of stock. Even the trident z would be a gamble on the alpa UEFI this board seems to be running.


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## cadaveca (Mar 21, 2017)

Yeah, for high-end sticks right now, the 14-14-14-34 3200 MHz sticks from G.Skill are about the only ones that seem to work, since they are the right IC, and single-sided. The RGB sticks I just got (review soon) @ 16-16-16-36 3600 MHz also work just fine too. Those straight timings (14-14-14 or 16-16-16) at high speeds seems to be a bit rare (most brands do not offer such timings).

The unfortunate part about the Corsair sticks is that it seems they have two different versions, one has the right IC, the other does not. That sucks for Ryzen users, since there doesn't seem to be a way to know what ICs are present unless you can see the actual sticks in person and read the code on the stick itself.


Its situations like this that have me favor G.Skill for high-end sticks, actually.


But I have to say it now; X99, Intel's first DDR4 entry, had THE EXACT SAME PROBLEMS at launch, with broken memory dividers between 2666 and 3200. That is why although the problem with getting the right memory is a big one, it isn't that unexpected, and as such is relatively minor. Here's to hoping that AMD can get it sorted just like Intel did.


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## m0nt3 (Mar 21, 2017)

Update: I am posting this at 2933. I had to hit the reset button 6 times to get past error code 55 on the diagnostic LED, so the RAM my actually be good there. My corsair is single sided as well, you can clearly see a foam pad between the heat spread and the ram modules would be. If they are the samsung B die i do not know.

EDIT: Kind of wondering if I have a bad board. My friend has a crosshair 6 and has never received error 55 and I get it at BIOS defaults sometimes.


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## cdawall (Mar 21, 2017)

cadaveca said:


> Next time, buy G.Skill.



I was playing with the Corsair lpx 3600's at 3800 again today on my now replaced ch6...


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## cadaveca (Mar 21, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I was playing with the Corsair lpx 3600's at 3800 again today on my now replaced ch6...


Good for you, but all the launch-day reviews with Corsair sticks (sent by AMD) had trouble, including the review here.


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## cdawall (Mar 21, 2017)

cadaveca said:


> Good for you, but all the launch-day reviews with Corsair sticks (sent by AMD) had trouble, including the review here.



They are also lower binned by a lot. Top end sticks as a whole seem to be clocking fine. The - b Samsung seems more forgiving and is what Gskill uses in their top end kits, but they all seem fine. Even on the release bios I was able to push 3600. It was other issues that frustrated me with that board.


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## Grings (Mar 21, 2017)

Avoid TridentZ F4-3200C16-8GTZB as they are dual sided sticks
(I still see these in stock a few places in the uk)

I got them cheap a while back for a skylake build hoping to pick up some 4000ish sticks later on and put these in a Ryzen build when it came out...

Arse.


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## the54thvoid (Mar 24, 2017)

Got my build up and running, set the memory to 3200 and it's stayed there faithfully.  Everything working well so far.  Haven't tried any real overclocking yet but will try soon.  Still have old system as main PC while I 'experiment' with AMD.


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## bencrutz (Mar 25, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> Got my build up and running, set the memory to 3200 and it's stayed there faithfully.  Everything working well so far.  Haven't tried any real overclocking yet but will try soon.  Still have old system as main PC while I 'experiment' with AMD.



what mem stick you are using?
i can't get my team delta 3000MHz 2x16GB to run even at measly 2666MHz 
could only ran at 2400MHz  on the crosshair vi hero


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## cdawall (Mar 25, 2017)

bencrutz said:


> what mem stick you are using?
> i can't get my team delta 3000MHz 2x16GB to run even at measly 2666MHz
> could only ran at 2400MHz  on the crosshair vi hero



Well those are dual rank dimms.


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## the54thvoid (Mar 25, 2017)

bencrutz said:


> what mem stick you are using?
> i can't get my team delta 3000MHz 2x16GB to run even at measly 2666MHz
> could only ran at 2400MHz  on the crosshair vi hero



I used the QVL list and got GSkill kits. I read that using over 16gb can cause issues.


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## cdawall (Mar 25, 2017)

These are the single rank corsair 3600's again. They do 3600 at these timings as well, but the IMC is becoming unstable on me. This yielded the best performance overall.


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## cadaveca (Mar 25, 2017)

cdawall said:


> These are the single rank corsair 3600's again. They do 3600 at these timings as well, but the IMC is becoming unstable on me. This yielded the best performance overall.


ROFL, so it takes 3600 MHz Corsairs to match 3200 MHz G.Skill? Interesting. I wonder which is more expensive.

I got 3600 MHz G.Skills... guess I gotta give them a try when I rebuild my Ryzen system.


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## cdawall (Mar 25, 2017)

cadaveca said:


> ROFL, so it takes 3600 MHz Corsairs to match 3200 MHz G.Skill? Interesting. I wonder which is more expensive.
> 
> I got 3600 MHz G.Skills... guess I gotta give them a try when I rebuild my Ryzen system.



These are just the sticks I have access to for this build. All Samsung -b seems to do well with this platform. Some smarter minds than me think it is the tertiary timings being set very tight and the -b's being able to cope better with that.

I tried a set of tridentz's that were 3200 rated and couldn't get them as tight in the timings. I bet if I pushed the ram voltage down I could pull off CL12.


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## cadaveca (Mar 25, 2017)

G.Skill C14 sticks have worked just fine for me(both Intel and AMD-rated ones), but I'm using sticks at their rated speeds, not overclocking the sticks at all or trying higher-rated and more expensive sticks at lower speeds.

Potential buyers need to know exactly what to buy to get the most out of their dollar.

Since most boards don't offer tertiary timing settings, tweaking is going to be difficult for many. Benefit of the Intel platform is having those options I guess. But I see that secondary's matter a fair bit too with my board, but the review of the ASRock Taichi is complete, and I am now moving on to other boards. I'm not liking what I see from others yet (since ASUS's new BIOS is finally matching ASRock's pre-launch BIOS, a month later), but I have yet to get my hands on an MSI board...


----------



## cdawall (Mar 25, 2017)

The MSI board is supposed to be reasonably good from what I have seen in some of the other threads. 1002 is finally a decent BIOS for the CH6, the rest should have never seen a consumers hands as far as I am concerned.

And yea these sticks aren't cheap, but were picked for obvious compatibility reasons.


----------



## cadaveca (Mar 26, 2017)

cdawall said:


> And yea these sticks aren't cheap, but were picked for obvious compatibility reasons.


The struggle is real. 

I sure got lucky with my first-pick hardware... except cooling. I dunno what to use... I am thinking my chip needs about 250 W of cooling to meet 4.1 at reasonable (70c) temps. Then there's the whole bracket availability thing... ROFL. Artic Cooling has a couple of coolers (one air, one AIO) at the local shop, but I don't think either is going to give me what I'm looking for.


----------



## cdawall (Mar 26, 2017)

EK block on mine is fine.


----------



## cadaveca (Mar 26, 2017)

Too much hassle for me for board reviews to go to that length. I want AIO I guess, but not Corsair. Getting a 5c - 6c delta on inlet/outlet temps on H100. 

Now that I've got the HVAC learning done, this makes me laugh a bunch.


----------



## cdawall (Mar 26, 2017)

I am not a big fan of AIO's


----------



## cadaveca (Mar 26, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I am not a big fan of AIO's


They are too popular, and easy to use. But Corsair's plastic backplates can go to hell, won't touch 'em.


----------



## bencrutz (Mar 26, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Well those are dual rank dimms.


yep, am aware of that



the54thvoid said:


> I used the QVL list and got GSkill kits. I read that using over 16gb can cause issues.


unfortunately I bought mine along with ryzen preorder, and that was before asus put anything on the QVL list 


well, mine are microns and dual rank, guess i'm fu*ked eh  can only boot normaly at 2133MHz 
it have problems on cold boot at 2400MHz & 2666MHz, it would turn on for a few seconds and then suddenly off, and a second later turn back on it self but the thing is, there's no such problem on warm boots


----------



## m0nt3 (Apr 3, 2017)

Update, I got past my q-code 55 error by setting PLL Voltage to 1.88 and have had no troubles passing POST since. Even got my Corsair Vengence booting without issue at 3200 16-18-18-18-36 1.35V (using DOCP Standard Profile.)


----------



## bencrutz (Apr 3, 2017)

m0nt3 said:


> Update, I got past my q-code 55 error by setting PLL Voltage to 1.88 and have had no troubles passing POST since. Even got my Corsair Vengence booting without issue at 3200 16-18-18-18-36 1.35V (using DOCP Standard Profile.)



care to share how much voltage applied to the SOC?


----------



## m0nt3 (Apr 3, 2017)

bencrutz said:


> care to share how much voltage applied to the SOC?


Didn't change SOC, only PLL and set it to 1.85


----------



## Johan45 (Apr 3, 2017)

cadaveca said:


> G.Skill C14 sticks have worked just fine for me(both Intel and AMD-rated ones), but I'm using sticks at their rated speeds, not overclocking the sticks at all or trying higher-rated and more expensive sticks at lower speeds.
> 
> Potential buyers need to know exactly what to buy to get the most out of their dollar.
> 
> Since most boards don't offer tertiary timing settings, tweaking is going to be difficult for many. Benefit of the Intel platform is having those options I guess. But I see that secondary's matter a fair bit too with my board, but the review of the ASRock Taichi is complete, and I am now moving on to other boards. I'm not liking what I see from others yet (since ASUS's new BIOS is finally matching ASRock's pre-launch BIOS, a month later), but I have yet to get my hands on an MSI board...



They're sending me a lower end x370 SLI this week so we'll see how it works. I've been kicking the CHVI pretty good over the last few weeks. Better now they got the BIOS straightened out. Doesn't brick but I think some of the performance is still lacking. I find for me any way memory works the best between 2900-3300 at least the way things are at the moment. I've read thhat the memory should be opened up a bit in May but that's a long ways off in my eyes.






[/IMG]


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 3, 2017)

Well finally up and running. Still on original BIOS, 0702 but memory is running at 3200 no issues and tried mild OC (3.8Ghz). Used Asus software to begin and voltage as showing as 1.35 despite applying .05 offset.
Prime on max heat test (Small FT) and the air cooler keeping it below 70 degrees after 10 mins.

Happy so far. Feel no need for BIOS update.  Will play more with OC as the week goes on. Also have my 1080ti FE under a heatkiller block and at 2Ghz settled at 43 degrees after 90 mins of BF1 averaging about 125-135 fps @ 1440p on ultra.

FWIW found Ryzen Master pretty poor compared to Asus own OC software.

Edit: ignore edit.... Phone acting weird


----------



## m0nt3 (Apr 3, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> Well finally up and running. Still on original BIOS, 0702 but memory is running at 3200 no issues and tried mild OC (3.8Ghz). Used Asus software to begin and voltage as showing as 1.35 despite applying .05 offset.
> Prime on max heat test (Small FT) and the air cooler keeping it below 70 degrees after 10 mins.
> 
> Happy so far. Feel no need for BIOS update.  Will play more with OC as the week goes on. Also have my 1080ti FE under a heatkiller block and at 2Ghz settled at 43 degrees after 90 mins of BF1 averaging about 125-135 fps @ 1440p on ultra.
> ...



For the Crosshair VI you really should update the UEFI, there is a bug in that version that can cause the SOC voltage to get to high and brick your motherboard. Also has something to do if it updates the UEFI from within windows from the asus software.


----------



## Johan45 (Apr 4, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> Well finally up and running. Still on original BIOS, 0702 but memory is running at 3200 no issues and tried mild OC (3.8Ghz). Used Asus software to begin and voltage as showing as 1.35 despite applying .05 offset.
> Prime on max heat test (Small FT) and the air cooler keeping it below 70 degrees after 10 mins.
> 
> Happy so far. Feel no need for BIOS update.  Will play more with OC as the week goes on. Also have my 1080ti FE under a heatkiller block and at 2Ghz settled at 43 degrees after 90 mins of BF1 averaging about 125-135 fps @ 1440p on ultra.
> ...




That's funny  you say that about Ryzen Master. I'm not a fan of OC software accept maybe TurboV but I find it easy to use. Live core speed, mem needs a reboot but it boots right up.


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 4, 2017)

m0nt3 said:


> For the Crosshair VI you really should update the UEFI, there is a bug in that version that can cause the SOC voltage to get to high and brick your motherboard. Also has something to do if it updates the UEFI from within windows from the asus software.



I've heard about ssues but the system is stable so far with no boot issues and have runa few tests so far.  I have 1002 BIOS on a USB stick so may give that a go anyway.  In the meantime, ran a wee Time spy bench.  No idea if this is good or bad but tbh, at 2Ghz, I think the Ryzen CPU might ber holding back the 1080ti.  Or is that just me being paranoid?

CPU at 3.8Ghz all cores.


----------



## cadaveca (Apr 4, 2017)

I barely score that with two 1070's and a 4.6 GHz 6700K.


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 4, 2017)

cadaveca said:


> I barely score that with two 1070's and a 4.6 GHz 6700K.



Given the current performance on a 'shaky' BIOS, is it wise for me to flash to a new BIOS if memory and OC is stable?


----------



## cdawall (Apr 4, 2017)

Yes flash to the new bios.


----------



## Ungari (Apr 4, 2017)

What's this nonsense with hardly any boards offering Dual BIOS chips?
Last summer when Pascal released the AIB GPU cards switched to using flashing software and now the same with AM4 chipsets.
As enthusiasts we should protest this move especially since new BIOS are being released every week.


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 4, 2017)

Ungari said:


> What's this nonsense with hardly any boards offering Dual BIOS chips?
> Last summer when Pascal released the AIB GPU cards switched to using flashing software and now the same with AM4 chipsets.
> As enthusiasts we should protest this move especially since new BIOS are being released every week.



It's why I liked EVGA cards - some (FTW's and Classy's) offered dual if not triple BIOS.   I know CPU BIOS flashing is more routine but it still causes a little anxiety.


----------



## Dethroy (Apr 4, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> It's why I liked EVGA cards - some (FTW's and Classy's) offered dual if not triple BIOS.   I know CPU BIOS flashing is more routine but it still causes a little anxiety.


I've never had a MoBo brick due to BIOS flashing...


----------



## cadaveca (Apr 4, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> Given the current performance on a 'shaky' BIOS, is it wise for me to flash to a new BIOS if memory and OC is stable?


At this point, you will need to flash BIOS a few times in the coming months as fixes come out. Each should have a significant impact as AMD revises the AGESA code.



the54thvoid said:


> It's why I liked EVGA cards - some (FTW's and Classy's) offered dual if not triple BIOS.   I know CPU BIOS flashing is more routine but it still causes a little anxiety.



I don't mind flashing from Windows, to be honest, but I have been flashing these AMD boards from DOS using a command prompt... My nails get shorter as the process completes..


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 4, 2017)

Flashed to 1002.....


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 4, 2017)

Oh dear dear dear.

Played around alittle but due to heat spikes I went back to stock.  I'm now having random voltages spikes past 1.41 at stock and the temps rise as well (browsing).  Was stable in 0702, now running 1002 and hey - it's more flaky.

Lesson?  dont touch the freaking bios if i;'s running fine.

FFS.


----------



## cadaveca (Apr 4, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> Oh dear dear dear.
> 
> Played around alittle but due to heat spikes I went back to stock.  I'm now having random voltages spikes past 1.41 at stock and the temps rise as well (browsing).  Was stable in 0702, now running 1002 and hey - it's more flaky.
> 
> ...


How did you flash the BIOS? I was instructed to do so ONLY via command prompt, since any other way would cause issues due to how the platform works. I wonder if users with this issue (you are not the only one) are dealing with this because of how the BIOS was flashed...


----------



## RealNeil (Apr 4, 2017)

Lots going on in this thread. It's a good read.
I have a 1700X in the mail. (expected tomorrow or the next day)
I also got a good deal on a Crosshair-6 board. It's here already and the BIOS was already flashed prior to him shipping it to me.
I have a few 8GB Aegis DDR4-2133 to use until the 2-8GB DDR4-3200 GSKill sticks that I just ordered get here.
I also have a pair of Gigabyte 8GB RX480 G1-Gaming cards and a 500GB M.2 Drive to use.

I'm really anticipating building this box. It should fit right in here.


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 5, 2017)

cadaveca said:


> How did you flash the BIOS? I was instructed to do so ONLY via command prompt, since any other way would cause issues due to how the platform works. I wonder if users with this issue (you are not the only one) are dealing with this because of how the BIOS was flashed...



In BIOS using the EZ flash utility. Wanted to avoid any windows based option. Also don't like the vague BIOS flashback when PC is off due to past poor experience.

I'll try different approaches to OC but I'd really like to know what the real temps are as the X models have that strange offset.

Any ideas if best to use Vcore fixed or offset?


----------



## Johan45 (Apr 5, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> In BIOS using the EZ flash utility. Wanted to avoid any windows based option. Also don't like the vague BIOS flashback when PC is off due to past poor experience.
> 
> I'll try different approaches to OC but I'd really like to know what the real temps are as the X models have that strange offset.
> 
> Any ideas if best to use Vcore fixed or offset?


Depends on what you want in the end. Using fixed you won't get any power cycling while idle. If you're just testing I would use fixed for now and later if you want any power savings , on that Hero there's an option to alter the P-states through BIOS which will give you your overclock and maintain power cycling for low power idle state. I put together a guide here if you're interested.


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 7, 2017)

So.....

Ryzen 'X' model temp reporting.  What is the deal?  I know the junction temp is allegedly reporting 20 degrees higher than actual so my 3.8Ghz OC (running Prime) with the worlds best air cooler (TR Le Grand Macho) at 72-75 degrees isn't that hot?  Can I really subtract 20 degrees?  I'm quite sure I could run to 1.42 volts and get 3.9-4.0Ghz if i could trust the temp readout.......


----------



## v12dock (Apr 7, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> So.....
> 
> Ryzen 'X' model temp reporting.  What is the deal?  I know the junction temp is allegedly reporting 20 degrees higher than actual so my 3.8Ghz OC (running Prime) with the worlds best air cooler (TR Le Grand Macho) at 72-75 degrees isn't that hot?  Can I really subtract 20 degrees?  I'm quite sure I could run to 1.42 volts and get 3.9-4.0Ghz if i could trust the temp readout.......



I have been using the CPU diode as the real temp


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 7, 2017)

v12dock said:


> I have been using the CPU diode as the real temp



Forgive me, I could google that but what do you mean?


----------



## v12dock (Apr 7, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> Forgive me, I could google that but what do you mean?


----------



## Johan45 (Apr 7, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> So.....
> 
> Ryzen 'X' model temp reporting.  What is the deal?  I know the junction temp is allegedly reporting 20 degrees higher than actual so my 3.8Ghz OC (running Prime) with the worlds best air cooler (TR Le Grand Macho) at 72-75 degrees isn't that hot?  Can I really subtract 20 degrees?  I'm quite sure I could run to 1.42 volts and get 3.9-4.0Ghz if i could trust the temp readout.......



I think  HWinfo is very close on temps, it'll report Tctl and a CPU temp lower down. As you can see on the 1700 (without offset) they're very close to each other. I understood the offset was introduced to ramp fans to help keep the CPU in XFR mode.  So I would assume going by the Tctl should be fine but I wouldn't push it too far. On top of that your mobo should start to throttle if the "CPU" temp gets above 95°c. This isn't something I have tested so ???


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 7, 2017)

Johan45 said:


> I think  HWinfo is very close on temps, it'll report Tctl and a CPU temp lower down. As you can see on the 1700 (without offset) they're very close to each other. I understood the offset was introduced to ramp fans to help keep the CPU in XFR mode.  So I would assume going by the Tctl should be fine but I wouldn't push it too far. On top of that your mobo should start to throttle if the "CPU" temp gets above 95°c. This isn't something I have tested so ???View attachment 85979



HWinfo has tCTL at 69, the mobo section lists 59. That was running at 3.8 with 1.4v. HWinfo lists 1.55v on the top section across the cores but the mobo and Ryzen values are 1.39v.
All a bit weird to me. It's Prime stable and temps were solid (actually dropped a couple of degrees) with fans not ramping (qfan set to be quiet).


----------



## Johan45 (Apr 7, 2017)

I have the 1700x in an MSI board for testing this weekend I'll see if I can make any sense of the temps.


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 8, 2017)

Here's a screenshot of HWinfo while I ran a Small FFT Prime test.  My BIOS settings are simple:

38 multiplier
1.4 Vcore
1.2 SOC
LLC 2
Memory set at 3200 (rated to 3200).






Tctl is 69.3 degrees
Mobo CPU reads 74 degrees
So VID says 1.55v
CPU (SVI2 TFN) reads 1.331v
Mobo Vcore reads 1.352v

So, Prime fails at 3.9Ghz with 1.41v and Tctl rises past 76.

What are the safe temps?  Do we ned to wait for AMD to release a few more patches to show accurate temp readings?  I'll push more volts if i know the temps are trustworthy but I dont like seeing temps climb towards 80.


----------



## Johan45 (Apr 8, 2017)

Here's a shot of the MSI board, P95 ~ 20 minutes You can clearly see that the 20° offset is applied to the Tctl . Looks like the CHVI dropped the offset in BIOS 1002


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 8, 2017)

I certainly have a poor chip. Sadness ensues.


----------



## Johan45 (Apr 8, 2017)

Mine is average I think, ~ 1.4v for 4.0 P95 stable.


----------



## RealNeil (Apr 8, 2017)

Hoping for the best with my 1700X and Hero VI board.
I have yet to start the build.
I'd be happy on 3.8-4.0 on all cores if I can get away with it.


----------



## saikamaldoss (Apr 8, 2017)

cadaveca said:


> Nope, which makes finding the right sticks a bit difficult. I can say, if you buy some G.SKill 3200 MHz C14 sticks, you should not have any problems. There are some kits ready for Ryzen from G.Skill already; at least, I have some they sent me, so I assume they will be in stores soon if not already.



I have G.SKill 3200 MHz C14 32GB which is duel rank and wont go past 2666mhz... I see G.SKill 3200 MHz C14 16gb kit single rank rams are clocking really well


----------



## HTC (Apr 8, 2017)

saikamaldoss said:


> I have G.SKill 3200 MHz C14 32GB which is duel rank and wont go past 2666mhz... I see G.SKill 3200 MHz C14 16gb kit single rank rams are clocking really well



This dude's making 3400 C16 dual rank 32 GB RAM running @ 3200 C14.

Hard to achieve, but very much possible.


----------



## saikamaldoss (Apr 8, 2017)

HTC said:


> This dude's making 3400 C16 dual rank 32 GB RAM running @ 3200 C14.
> 
> Hard to achieve, but very much possible.



My ram is F4 3200 14c not 16


----------



## HTC (Apr 8, 2017)

saikamaldoss said:


> *My ram is F4 3200 14c* not 16



I know: you said so on the post right before my 1st reply.

His isn't 3200 C16: it's *3400* C16 but he's running it @ 3200 C14.


----------



## saikamaldoss (Apr 8, 2017)

HTC said:


> I know: you said so on the post right before my 1st reply.
> 
> His isn't 3200 C16: it's *3400* C16 but he's running it @ 3200 C14.



oh ok. but wats the v ? i tried 1.35 no luck. may be i should try running it at 15c or so


----------



## r9 (Apr 8, 2017)

cadaveca said:


> At this point, you will need to flash BIOS a few times in the coming months as fixes come out. Each should have a significant impact as AMD revises the AGESA code.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't mind flashing from Windows, to be honest, but I have been flashing these AMD boards from DOS using a command prompt... My nails get shorter as the process completes..


DOS is safer imo. There are no running processes to interrupt the flashing process.
Windows is different story I always expect like AV or the Firewall to kill the process or something.
Never had any issues though with any of them.
Plus I have bios programmer and I can always pull the bios chip of flash it and solder it back again.
Always being extra careful not to have to go to plan B .


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 8, 2017)

Okay, getting better...

Vdroop must be high:

Vcore upped to 1.43 (HWinfo shows 1.35-1.37 in SVI2 TFN and CH6 says 1.39))
Mulitplier to 39
Spread spectrum off as well now with previous settings (SOC voltage not changed)

Noticed my VRM temps are quite low so surely there is lots of voltage headroom left?

Air coolers are fab - get hot fast but actually drop over 10 minutes of prime by 5-6 degrees.  TBH, hitting 8 cores at 3.9Ghz on an air cooler isn't too bad.  I'll push for 4Ghz soon enough once i find out if the current settings are game stable.  If i can keep the Tctl under 75 I'll be happy.  The mobo reading I'm taking as wrong (5 degrees out).

The following is after 10 minutes of prime.


----------



## HTC (Apr 8, 2017)

saikamaldoss said:


> oh ok. but wats the v ? i tried 1.35 no luck. may be i should try running it at 15c or so



It should be on the pic but that pic is a bit hard to see 

He does mention it's @ stock volts, just before the pic, unless he's taking about some other setting @ stock volts: dunno


----------



## HD64G (Apr 8, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> I certainly have a poor chip. Sadness ensues.


You haven't seen all yet. With new BIOS iterations coming later and RAM compatibility, OC will get better me thinks. Let's wait until May. You already have a monsterous CPU-GPU combo afterall.


----------



## infrared (Apr 8, 2017)

saikamaldoss said:


> oh ok. but wats the v ? i tried 1.35 no luck. may be i should try running it at 15c or so


Have you tried increasing the SoC voltage? Give 1.20v a try (and then reduce it if it works to find min required voltage, id expect less than 1.1v is needed).

You shouldn't need to slacken the timings, in theory it should be able to run at it's rated voltage and timings. You could give 16-16-16-36 a try, it might let it run if the increased SoC doesn't help.


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 8, 2017)

HD64G said:


> You haven't seen all yet. With new BIOS iterations coming later and RAM compatibility, OC will get better me thinks. Let's wait until May. You already have a monsterous CPU-GPU combo afterall.



Yeah, getting better.  Only 0.1 away from the magical 4Ghz.


----------



## infrared (Apr 8, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> Yeah, getting better.  Only 0.1 away from the magical 4Ghz.


I think 3.9 is the sweet spot with reasonable voltage. If your chip is anything like my 1800x I don't think you'll reach 4.0 without 1.4v+ (mine needs 1.425v), but you can try these, might help a little.

1.8v PLL voltage - 2.0v
VDDP (tweaker's paradise) - 1.02v

Also does anyone know if sense mi has much effect? I've had it set to enabled and default 272 (iirc), but it wasn't stable before or after I made the change so idk if it's actually useful or not, or what value to use. I think it's just on auto atm.


----------



## Johan45 (Apr 8, 2017)

infrared said:


> I think 3.9 is the sweet spot with reasonable voltage. If your chip is anything like my 1800x I don't think you'll reach 4.0 without 1.4v+ (mine needs 1.425v), but you can try these, might help a little.
> 
> 1.8v PLL voltage - 2.0v
> VDDP (tweaker's paradise) - 1.02v
> ...


AFIK sensemi skew is only good for readings. Like the temps offset etc.. 272 is supposedly stock for ASUS from what I read at OCN, people were using it to try and make their temps a bit more realistic. The 0902 BIOS whacked out a lot of readings and that helped some people but not all. I don't think it has any bearing on overclocking/stability at all.


----------



## infrared (Apr 8, 2017)

Okay, cool. Thanks for that


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 8, 2017)

Posted this on the Ryzen OC thread.

3.9Ghz and 1080ti at 2050 (max boost)


----------



## purecain (Apr 8, 2017)

look at the fun your all having with your new builds.im not jealous... much! damn... I can see a new ryzen cpu in my future. i think I'm going to really enjoy this build. loads of good info on ddr4 in this thread btw.  i read that gaming is improved by as much as 20% as new games are released coded to run on the platform.

my haswell system is starting to struggle. has everyone found their ryzen chips to be pretty powerful compared to their intel setups?.


----------



## Hood (Apr 8, 2017)

I was wondering how Win 10 Creators Update is working on Ryzen.  I installed it yesterday on my Intel system, had zero issues (unusual for a major update).  I'm curious whether the update addressed any Ryzen issues (core parking, power profiles?) since M$ has now had a chance to collect telemetry data from Ryzen systems.  Any Ryzen owners installed v1703 yet?


----------



## saikamaldoss (Apr 8, 2017)

HTC said:


> It should be on the pic but that pic is a bit hard to see
> 
> He does mention it's @ stock volts, just before the pic, unless he's taking about some other setting @ stock volts: dunno



Ya that's the problem. It's not clear. 



infrared said:


> Have you tried increasing the SoC voltage? Give 1.20v a try (and then reduce it if it works to find min required voltage, id expect less than 1.1v is needed).
> 
> You shouldn't need to slacken the timings, in theory it should be able to run at it's rated voltage and timings. You could give 16-16-16-36 a try, it might let it run if the increased SoC doesn't help.



Oh ok I will try that. Mine is at .98 or so


----------



## HTC (Apr 8, 2017)

saikamaldoss said:


> Ya that's the problem. It's not clear.



@ 1st i was having trouble viewing the pic after saving it to desktop (kept getting reading errors) but i managed and increased it's size by 30%: any more and you'll have trouble reading.



Hope it helps.


----------



## saikamaldoss (Apr 9, 2017)

HTC said:


> @ 1st i was having trouble viewing the pic after saving it to desktop (kept getting reading errors) but i managed and increased it's size by 30%: any more and you'll have trouble reading.
> 
> View attachment 86045
> 
> Hope it helps.



No luck. It goes to black screen and then I have to reset bios for the black screen to go..


----------



## phanbuey (Apr 9, 2017)

saikamaldoss said:


> No luck. It goes to black screen and then I have to reset bios for the black screen to go..


in your bios you should be able to disable rank interleaving... that might get you more oc.


----------



## saikamaldoss (Apr 9, 2017)

phanbuey said:


> in your bios you should be able to disable rank interleaving... that might get you more oc.



This stupid msi motherboard bios is crappy. Can't find anything. Old fashion bios was much more easier.. I will try to find that option tomorrow.


----------



## saikamaldoss (Apr 9, 2017)

phanbuey said:


> in your bios you should be able to disable rank interleaving... that might get you more oc.



There is no such option on this bios. I searched for it and could not find any. All I can do is set tam timing and select speed and set voltage. Voltage is already at 1.36 and still no luck


----------



## HTC (Apr 9, 2017)

saikamaldoss said:


> No luck. It goes to black screen and then I have to reset bios for the black screen to go..



Try following the steps described here and see how it goes.


----------



## saikamaldoss (Apr 10, 2017)

HTC said:


> Try following the steps described here and see how it goes.



I checked the link. Thanks... they are taking about lot of settings which I don't see on my
Msi board.i am
Thinking of replacing my board again. Not sure which msi or Asus or gigabytes board I should go for.


----------



## Caring1 (Apr 10, 2017)

saikamaldoss said:


> Thinking of replacing my board again. Not sure which msi or Asus or gigabytes board I should go for.


Asrock Taichi


----------



## Aenra (Apr 10, 2017)

If you can find it, i'd pick the 370 Professional Gaming in your shoes. Also ASRock.
http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1ty X370 Professional Gaming/index.asp
(not the taichi)

Otherwise, i'd get the Gigabyte Gaming K7.
http://www.gigabyte.us/Motherboard/GA-AX370-Gaming-K7-rev-10#kf
(yes, despite what you've been reading. Given availability, i'd still go for the ASRock above though)

edit: since you made another thread about your RAM, you've probably learned this the hard way, but what_ever_ you choose, you make damn sure you read the QVL list carefully first. They're finicky enough as it is, no reason for extra risks.


----------



## saikamaldoss (Apr 10, 2017)

Caring1 said:


> Asrock Taichi



That's not available on Amazon. I can only buy from Amazon


----------



## saikamaldoss (Apr 10, 2017)

Aenra said:


> If you can find it, i'd pick the 370 Professional Gaming in your shoes. Also ASRock.
> http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1ty X370 Professional Gaming/index.asp
> (not the taichi)
> 
> ...



ASRock is not available but yes Gigabyte is available. So gigabyte gaming k7 is good is it ? Ya ram i am trying get it replaced it as well but I think it's too late for that..

The link you posted yesterday the guy overclockef a duel rank 32GB ram to 3200 on ASRock board right. So I should be good with this ram ?


----------



## Aenra (Apr 10, 2017)

saikamaldoss said:


> So I should be good with this ram ?



I've had issues with RAMs on much stabler platforms, my current one included. You just can't know, not for sure, unless:
i) you try it (and if it doesn't work, you're fucked obviously)
ii) it's on the QVL list, ergo O.K., it's guaranteed then

In your shoes, i wouldn't risk it. Ryzens have issues enough as they are, no reason to compound on them.

As to the Gigabyte, assuming ASRock wasn't an option (as it isn't for you), it's what i'd --personally-- buy that right now. Personally. You will find many posters here that will advise you otherwise.

edit: In regard to OCing the RAM, no one can give you guarantees. No one. Hence the above. You might get it a lot higher (if you have the patience to mess with clocks), you might get it a bit lower, too many factors at play. There's another poster here that achieved 3600MHz on a 2400MHz mobo. You cannot know, so for this part, ignore the empirical. One man's combo isn't another's.


----------



## saikamaldoss (Apr 10, 2017)

Aenra said:


> I've had issues with RAMs on much stabler platforms, my current one included. You just can't know, not for sure, unless:
> i) you try it (and if it doesn't work, you're fucked obviously)
> ii) it's on the QVL list, ergo O.K. it's guaranteed
> 
> ...




So I should go with gigabyte x370 k7 then

Edit: will try soc voltage using RyZen master first then..


----------



## Aenra (Apr 10, 2017)

I edited my post so as to clarify things further, please read it again.
There are two "7" Gigabyte mobos. I only recommend the one i linked above, have had one in my hands, a nephew's.


----------



## saikamaldoss (Apr 10, 2017)

Aenra said:


> I edited my post so as to clarify things further, please read it again.
> There are two "7" Gigabyte mobos. I only recommend the one i linked above, have had one in my hands, a nephew's.



This one right ?

Gigabyte GA-AX370-Gaming K7 AM4 AMD X370 RGB FUSION SMART FAN 5 HDMI M.2 U.2 USB 3.1 Type-C ATX DDR4 Motherboard 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XF3R469/?tag=tec06d-20


----------



## Aenra (Apr 10, 2017)

saikamaldoss said:


> This one right ?



Yeap. And in case your current RAM is _not_ in the QVL list? I'd pick this one in your shoes:
http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14d-16gfx

This one's 100% mobo compatible with your K7 (on the page linked here, select the QVL tab and expand 'Gigabyte' to verify it yourself); you can just enable "XMP" and call it a day if you can't be asked OCing it manually. 3200MHz at 14-14-14-34 out of the box is pretty damn good.

edit: I remember that in your own thread you were enquiring about 32gigs of RAM and Ryzens. With the motherboard i'm suggesting that too is 100% guaranteed with this model:
http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-2400c15d-32gft

Be advised however that these run at 2400MHz and at looser timings. Pick what matters to you most 
You'll be fine with either.


----------



## saikamaldoss (Apr 10, 2017)

Aenra said:


> Yeap. And in case your current RAM is _not_ in the QVL list? I'd pick this one in your shoes:
> http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14d-16gfx
> 
> This one's 100% mobo compatible with your K7 (on the page linked here, select the QVL tab and expand 'Gigabyte' to verify it yourself); you can just enable "XMP" and call it a day if you can't be asked OCing it manually. 3200MHz at 14-14-14-34 out of the box is pretty damn good.
> ...



I could only find 

G.SKILL TridentZ Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) F4-3200C14D-16GTZ 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ACODPHI/?tag=tec06d-20

On Amazon and this is 16gb. I need 32GB as I run lot of VMs


----------



## Aenra (Apr 10, 2017)

No no, don't. It's either 1 or 0 with these things 
Look elsewhere, or start checking the Gigabyte QVL list piece by piece, see which of the models can be found in amazon. 
Although your location is Florida, so i don't understand why you can only buy through Amazon, plenty of places to go and have a look. Start with newegg?


----------



## saikamaldoss (Apr 10, 2017)

Aenra said:


> No no, don't. It's either 1 or 0 with these things
> Look elsewhere, or start checking the Gigabyte QVL list piece by piece, see which of the models can be found in amazon.
> Although your location is Florida, so i don't understand why you can only buy through Amazon, plenty of places to go and have a look. Start with newegg?



The money 362$ I spend for this ram will only come back to my amazon gift wallet and I have to buy again from that lol


----------



## HTC (Apr 10, 2017)

saikamaldoss said:


> The money 362$ I spend for this ram will only come back to my amazon gift wallet and I have to buy again from that lol



Then, after you decide on the board, check this site: http://rymem.vraith.com/

Then pick the RAM listed for that board. You could also try doing the opposite and search a board for your current RAM.


----------



## saikamaldoss (Apr 10, 2017)

HTC said:


> Then, after you decide on the board, check this site: http://rymem.vraith.com/
> 
> Then pick the RAM listed for that board. You could also try doing the opposite and search a board for your current RAM.


Ya I saw that website already. The problem is I need 32GB and it look like I don't have an option at the moment and I assume some day they will release a bios to support ram. 

Motherboard I will go for Gigabyte but is there a way to get some screenshot of the k7 bios ??


----------



## purecain (Apr 10, 2017)

are the asus boards not performing well? I thought they had a new bios which enabled 3000mhz memory+. given I don't own the chipset yet and have only read bits of info here and there.

I was looking at buying an asus board for the more familiar bios settings.


----------



## HTC (Apr 10, 2017)

saikamaldoss said:


> Ya I saw that website already. The problem is I need 32GB and it look like I don't have an option at the moment and I assume some day they will release a bios to support ram.
> 
> Motherboard I will go for Gigabyte but is there a way to get some screenshot of the k7 bios ??



Tried searching for a manual of that board but couldn't find one: figured it would show some BIOS pics 

I know the 32 GB dual rank RAM the dude that i linked in my previous reply does do 14 CL @ 3200 but that is on the board he's using: may not be the case in other boards.

Check this video he posted of him running prime AND heaven in a loop for over 9h:


----------



## purecain (Apr 10, 2017)

this is what had me sold on ryzen.
quote# AMD’s initial goal of a 40% IPC improvement over its previous generation would’ve put it on roughly equal grounds with Intel’s 4th and 5th generation Haswell and Broadwell CPUs.
A 12% on top of that, as today’s benchmarks evidently suggest, would put Zen ahead of Intel’s latest and greatest 6th and 7th generation Skylake and Kaby Lake microarchitectures.

taking into account kaby lake will clock higher. I still think its a good trade off for the extra 4 cores. a little less single thread speed for a whole lot more processing power overall. especially as more and more apps come multi threaded as standard.


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 10, 2017)

purecain said:


> this is what had me sold on ryzen.
> quote# AMD’s initial goal of a 40% IPC improvement over its previous generation would’ve put it on roughly equal grounds with Intel’s 4th and 5th generation Haswell and Broadwell CPUs.
> A 12% on top of that, as today’s benchmarks evidently suggest, would put Zen ahead of Intel’s latest and greatest 6th and 7th generation Skylake and Kaby Lake microarchitectures.
> 
> taking into account kaby lake will clock higher. I still think its a good trade off for the extra 4 cores. a little less single thread speed for a whole lot more processing power overall. especially as more and more apps come multi threaded as standard.



Buy an 1800x and a 240 water cooler AIO. You'll get 4-4.1GHz. That will be close to Broadwell-E clock speeds with 8 cores.
I'm 3.9 on air, just waiting for better safe temp clarification.  If you want cores, Ryzen is not just a safe bet, pound for pound it's a brilliant alternative to Intel's pricing.  If you want speed, don't bother, buy a 4 core Kabylake.


----------



## Johan45 (Apr 10, 2017)

purecain said:


> are the asus boards not performing well? I thought they had a new bios which enabled 3000mhz memory+. given I don't own the chipset yet and have only read bits of info here and there.
> 
> I was looking at buying an asus board for the more familiar bios settings.


I've been using an ASUS CHVI and it performs great. Aside from a slight hiccup initially with a bad BIOS it's been clear sailing.


----------



## m&m's (Apr 10, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> Buy an 1800x and a 240 water cooler AIO. You'll get 4-4.1GHz.



Does the 1800x really clock higher than the 1700x? From what I've seen they seem on par. The 1700 (non-x) seems to hit 3.8-3.9GHz.


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 10, 2017)

m&m's said:


> Does the 1800x really clock higher than the 1700x? From what I've seen they seem on par. The 1700 (non-x) seems to hit 3.8-3.9GHz.



Total conjecture but I think the 1800X's are binned for higher clocks.


----------



## RealNeil (Apr 10, 2017)

purecain said:


> are the asus boards not performing well? I thought they had a new bios which enabled 3000mhz memory+. given I don't own the chipset yet and have only read bits of info here and there.
> 
> I was looking at buying an Asus board for the more familiar bios settings.



I hope that they are! (that's what I just bought) 
As for BIOS settings, IDK if they will be familiar using a different chipset.

I need to find the time to build my 1700X box.



Johan45 said:


> I've been using an ASUS CHVI and it performs great. Aside from a slight hiccup initially with a bad BIOS it's been clear sailing.



This is good to hear.


----------



## saikamaldoss (Apr 10, 2017)

purecain said:


> are the asus boards not performing well? I thought they had a new bios which enabled 3000mhz memory+. given I don't own the chipset yet and have only read bits of info here and there.
> 
> I was looking at buying an asus board for the more familiar bios settings.



I had a Asus and replaced it with msi. Asus bios won't go past 2133mhz and msi I can do 2666 and even OC 1800x to 4.2ghz with 1.47 to 1.5v on h100i 240mm tho




purecain said:


> this is what had me sold on ryzen.
> quote# AMD’s initial goal of a 40% IPC improvement over its previous generation would’ve put it on roughly equal grounds with Intel’s 4th and 5th generation Haswell and Broadwell CPUs.
> A 12% on top of that, as today’s benchmarks evidently suggest, would put Zen ahead of Intel’s latest and greatest 6th and 7th generation Skylake and Kaby Lake microarchitectures.
> 
> taking into account kaby lake will clock higher. I still think its a good trade off for the extra 4 cores. a little less single thread speed for a whole lot more processing power overall. especially as more and more apps come multi threaded as standard.



I am not paying intel and I am super happy with amd. Upgraded from phenom and gta rocks now.. non of they games use more than 25 to 30% 

Metro light is at 60fps lock now and was at 28 to 29 with phenom x6 1100t OC 3.8 h100i



the54thvoid said:


> Buy an 1800x and a 240 water cooler AIO. You'll get 4-4.1GHz. That will be close to Broadwell-E clock speeds with 8 cores.
> I'm 3.9 on air, just waiting for better safe temp clarification.  If you want cores, Ryzen is not just a safe bet, pound for pound it's a brilliant alternative to Intel's pricing.  If you want speed, don't bother, buy a 4 core Kabylake.



Yup 1800x rocks.. no question about it. Mine clocks to 4.2 but stress test temp is 94c



m&m's said:


> Does the 1800x really clock higher than the 1700x? From what I've seen they seem on par. The 1700 (non-x) seems to hit 3.8-3.9GHz.



4.2 with 1.47 to 1.5v and stress test 94 to 95c which is 75c actual.


----------



## saikamaldoss (Apr 10, 2017)

HTC said:


> Tried searching for a manual of that board but couldn't find one: figured it would show some BIOS pics
> 
> I know the 32 GB dual rank RAM the dude that i linked in my previous reply does do 14 CL @ 3200 but that is on the board he's using: may not be the case in other boards.
> 
> Check this video he posted of him running prime AND heaven in a loop for over 9h:



So duel rank runs on ASRock then.. but it's not available at Amazon so no can't do.. 

I tried running gta and diyinglight and both ran well together lol. CPU is a monster... 

Hope gigabyte board will work good for me and some say it will let me run my duel rank 32GB at 3200 or more. I am unable to change the Bus speed Not sure why msi is not letting me change that


----------



## HTC (Apr 10, 2017)

saikamaldoss said:


> *So duel rank runs on ASRock then.. but it's not available at Amazon so no can't do.. *
> 
> I tried running gta and diyinglight and both ran well together lol. CPU is a monster...
> 
> Hope gigabyte board will work good for me and some say it will let me run my duel rank 32GB at 3200 or more. I am unable to change the Bus speed Not sure why msi is not letting me change that



I know the feeling: AsRock AM4 boards *still unavailable* in my country 

I've decided on which board to get over 2 weeks ago but can't yet due to it not being available in my country so my AM4 system upgrade is on the back burner, for now.


----------



## saikamaldoss (Apr 11, 2017)

HTC said:


> I know the feeling: AsRock AM4 boards *still unavailable* in my country
> 
> I've decided on which board to get over 2 weeks ago but can't yet due to it not being available in my country so my AM4 system upgrade is on the back burner, for now.



I just checked Gigabyte board k7 and it looks like it's a 6+4 vrm and is one of those boards that has adjustable BCLK setting. 

Boards with adjustable BCLK settings... 

(Asus Crosshair VI, Gigabyte K7, Asrock Taichi or Asrock Fata1ity Professional),

I don't think ASrocks 12+4 VRM will matter as RyZen won't go past 4.2ghz anyway..


----------



## f22a4bandit (Apr 12, 2017)

I took the plunge yesterday and ordered a R5 1600X after they released. All parts should be here on Friday 

I can't wait to build my new rig. This will be quite the step up from my current i7 960.


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 12, 2017)

f22a4bandit said:


> I took the plunge yesterday and ordered a R5 1600X after they released. All parts should be here on Friday
> 
> I can't wait to build my new rig. This will be quite the step up from my current i7 960.



Looks like a great chip.


----------



## Johan45 (Apr 12, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> Looks like a great chip.


There's a new BIOS that I'm having really good luck with.  http://redirect.viglink.com/?format...rosshair VI overclocking thread&txt=BIOS 0082


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 12, 2017)

Johan45 said:


> There's a new BIOS that I'm having really good luck with.  http://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_149201841825112&key=7777bc3c17029328d03146e0ed767841&libId=j1f98m3401000kb5000DAghcfuhhk&loc=http://www.overclock.net/t/1624603/rog-crosshair-vi-overclocking-thread&v=1&out=http://www.mediafire.com/file/qouv19ojg5mzwtj/CROSSHAIR-VI-HERO-ASUS-0082.zip&ref=http://www.overclock.net/users/subscriptions/index/view/activity&title=ROG Crosshair VI overclocking thread&txt=BIOS 0082



I've seen that on another forum you inhabit I think.  What are it's advantages?


----------



## Johan45 (Apr 12, 2017)

Makes memory OC much easier IMO. They added some mem specific profiles as well. There are actually three version but I found this one to work the best with my samsungs
Here's the post for more specifics   http://www.overclock.net/t/1624603/rog-crosshair-vi-overclocking-thread/7430#post_25993028
Yeah I get around a bit


----------



## RealNeil (Apr 12, 2017)

f22a4bandit said:


> I took the plunge yesterday



I think that you're gonna like it.


----------



## HTC (Apr 12, 2017)

RealNeil said:


> I think that you're gonna like it.



Did you manage to fix your memory issues?

I would also like it if i could get my hands on the board i want but it's *still unavailable* in my country


----------



## f22a4bandit (Apr 12, 2017)

HTC said:


> Did you manage to fix your memory issues?
> 
> I would also like it if i could get my hands on the board i want but it's *still unavailable* in my country



You still looking at an ASRock board? Most of their boards are sold out on Newegg in the States as well. I was hoping they'd be in stock again with the R5 release, but clearly that's not the case. I really wanted the Taichi, especially with the aesthetic design.

I decided to go with the MSI Gaming Pro Carbon myself as an alternative. Fingers crossed that all turns out well.


----------



## HTC (Apr 12, 2017)

f22a4bandit said:


> You still looking at *an ASRock board*? Most of their boards are sold out on Newegg in the States as well. I was hoping they'd be in stock again with the R5 release, but clearly that's not the case. I really wanted the Taichi, especially with the aesthetic design.
> 
> I decided to go with the MSI Gaming Pro Carbon myself as an alternative. Fingers crossed that all turns out well.



Congratz on your decision!

Not @ an AsRock board: @ *that* AsRock board. Not interested in any other boards.

If my upgrade plans end up being delayed by 3 months, so be it: i'm in no rush. I'll only purchase when all items are available and not before.


----------



## Tatty_One (Apr 12, 2017)

OK I think I am going to take the AMD plunge, I don't need 8 threads for what I do really but as that's all that's available at the moment.... the basis of my build is............

Ryzen 5 1500X
MSI B350 Tomahawk  Updated to Gigabyte B350 Gaming 3 (just for the dual Bios.....might need it!)
Coolermaster liquid 240 AIO (Verified AM4 compatible)
Updated to:  G.Skill Trident Z 16GB (2x 8GB) 3600MHz cl17, single rank, Samsung B.

Does this lot seem balanced? Seen a couple of reviews and it appears that the 1500X overclocks quite well although I appreciate it's early days (4.2gig on average boards at under 1.4v).  I have been tooing and froing between Intel and Ryzen for weeks now and need to take the plunge, throwing this out in here rather than the Ryzen discussion thread as I know most here actually are living with Ryzen.
My only current hesitation is whether to stick with the Tomahawk or go Gigabyte Gaming 3 B350.

Apologies that I am not quite a Ryzen owner yet, I will give myself 5 points for trolling


----------



## RealNeil (Apr 12, 2017)

HTC said:


> If my upgrade plans end up being delayed by 3 months, so be it: i'm in no rush.



Good idea, and there is a good chance that they'll release something that is better. (Ryzen being a new platform invites change)


----------



## HTC (Apr 12, 2017)

Tatty_One said:


> Apologies that I am not quite a Ryzen owner yet, I will give myself 5 points for trolling



You troller you ...

Then i'll take another 5 since i'm in the very same situation.


----------



## RealNeil (Apr 12, 2017)

HTC said:


> Did you manage to fix your memory issues?



I haven't put my Ryzen system together yet.  
Right now, I'm building an X99 system for my youngest son who lives cross country and I want to get it finished and mailed before I start the Ryzen build.
The AMD FX-9590 box that I already sent him is not cutting it for his engineering tasks.

I still have that Geil DDR4-3200MHz. EVO-X RAM to use in the 1700X and after checking, it ~is~ single sided. So I'm hopeful it will work at speed.
I also checked in my other systems and I found some GSKill Ripjaws-V 3200MHz. RAM that is single sided. (I already pulled two 8GB sticks out of the i7-6700K box)
All in all, I don't think that memory will be an issue for me.

I'm chomping at the bit to get started on the 1700X, but first things first.


----------



## Johan45 (Apr 13, 2017)

Tatty_One said:


> OK I think I am going to take the AMD plunge, I don't need 8 threads for what I do really but as that's all that's available at the moment.... the basis of my build is............
> 
> Ryzen 5 1500X
> MSI B350 Tomahawk
> ...



Personally I like the platform so far, in many things the IPC is very close to Kaby and about even with broadwell. dollar for dollar you really can't beat it. Drawback ATM would be limited overclocking and memory compatibility. The memory is slowly working itself out with updates. If you don't mind a few quirks that you get with a new platform then go for it.


----------



## infrared (Apr 13, 2017)

Tatty_One said:


> OK I think I am going to take the AMD plunge, I don't need 8 threads for what I do really but as that's all that's available at the moment.... the basis of my build is............
> 
> Ryzen 5 1500X
> MSI B350 Tomahawk
> ...



Looks like it'll be a good setup, I wouldn't go for that ram though, I bought that same kit and it didn't work well for me. Although to be fair that was on the earlier bios and on an Asus board so maybe it'll work for you. 
Here's an idea.. Since you're in the UK, do you want me to post you my set to try first?


----------



## techtard (Apr 13, 2017)

Anyone know if the Asus X370 Pro is any good? I pulled the trigger on a Ryzen 5 1600 and that mobo, saved over $200 from my original plan of x370 Taichi and a 1700. The upgrade itch done burned a hole in my wallet.


----------



## Tatty_One (Apr 13, 2017)

infrared said:


> Looks like it'll be a good setup, I wouldn't go for that ram though, I bought that same kit and it didn't work well for me. Although to be fair that was on the earlier bios and on an Asus board so maybe it'll work for you.
> Here's an idea.. Since you're in the UK, do you want me to post you my set to try first?



By coincidence, and thanks for the offer by the way but I have found some very reasonable GSkill Z's rated 3600mhz @ cl17 which was a no brainer replacement, again single rank and verified Samsung B, luckily I found this that helped........

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/62vp2g/clearing_up_any_samsung_bdie_confusion_eg_on/


----------



## infrared (Apr 13, 2017)

That's a pretty useful resource, nice!

No worries, I think you'll be much happier with those g.skill sticks 

@ techtard Not familiar with that board, but Asus' pro series of motherboards generally seem to work well. Let us know how you get on


----------



## phanbuey (Apr 13, 2017)

if I had to buy again I would have gone with a cheapo asus b350 mobo and a cherry picked 1700 from silicon lottery that could do 4Ghz.  would have saved $200.


----------



## RealNeil (Apr 13, 2017)

infrared said:


> Since you're in the UK, do you want me to post you my set to try first?



That's a cool offer. Cheers to you Man!


----------



## psyko12 (Apr 14, 2017)

Finally I can contribute here  I've managed to make my 1700x GA-Gaming K7 and Trident Z up and running.

But encountering a bit of problem with my rams getting it's rated speed up and running.

Now here's my current set up:

RAM: Pair of G. Skill Trident Z F4-3200C16-8GTZSK (single rank rams)
BIOS F3 (latest non beta)
1700x
Vcore normal voltage + .00625v offset
VSoc 1.1
multi at 38
volts Ram : auto
(Managed to get prime 95 stability for hours w/ no xmp enabled ram running at 21333mhz)

Now I tried same set up but changed a few things
Enabled XMP
Changed ram voltage to 1.4v
^ It can boot up to windows fine but when prime starts it ends up with error messages something like :
Prime 95 ERROR:rounding was 0.5 less than 0.4 on a number of workers but still computer works without problem , but just to be safe shut off the machine.


Next things that I tried is to enter the values manually
but I get a boot loop and back into bios without the settings sticking

Right now am running at 2,666 no problems (this is manually inputted)

Any inputs to get 3200 or xmp working would be appreciated.
Thank you!


----------



## HTC (Apr 14, 2017)

psyko12 said:


> Finally I can contribute here  I've managed to make my 1700x GA-Gaming K7 and Trident Z up and running.
> 
> But encountering a bit of problem with my rams getting it's rated speed up and running.
> 
> ...



Try following the steps described here and see how it goes.

Though the board is different, dude uses this sort of approach for any AM4 board he uses.

See if that helps.


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 14, 2017)

psyko12 said:


> Finally I can contribute here  I've managed to make my 1700x GA-Gaming K7 and Trident Z up and running.
> 
> But encountering a bit of problem with my rams getting it's rated speed up and running.
> 
> ...



Could easily be too low a voltage. Your offset is minimal and that prime fail could be related to a struggling clock speed.
Don't rush to blame memory. Having tinkered about for a week or so, i had to stabilise voltage. Good chips will get by at 3.8 under 1.4v but i see a lot of users needing more than 1.4v. And with Vdroop, LLC becomes a necessity.


----------



## Tatty_One (Apr 14, 2017)

There used to be a time that if you set XMP all other related settings should be on auto?


----------



## YautjaLord (Apr 14, 2017)

Just brought GA-AX370-Gaming-K7 to my home, this build will be complete in July or even August just in time for me going to Bloodstock this year. Memory QVL says all the way to 4266MHz DDR4 RAM supported albeit it's still in it's infancy, says downgrade to 3200MHz. By the time i'll actually go for these i hope GB releases EFI update that fixes the "issue" & DDR4 4000MHz is hassle-free to install & use while also having no trouble to OC the CPU (1800X or 1700) to 4.1GHz as well. What gives, MindBlank posted video in his YT channel using 3600MHz RAM with 1700?, 1700X? & it was all scaling like a champ in 1080p/1440p in GTAV, Witcher 3, etc.... Think it was GA-AX370-Gaming-5? that was used in conjunction with GTX 1080 & stuff? F*ckload of time till either July or even August. Cheers.


----------



## Aenra (Apr 14, 2017)

@psyko12
- is that RAM in the K7's QVL list? Have had similar issues with a previous Giga board, when you try tweak a RAM it doesn't 'like', nothing saves. Turned out they were more serious about their QVL than other brands.
- with all due respect to posters offering advice above, RAM voltages are the last thing i'd resort to (there's a reason they are factory tested and validated as "O.K., we can sell them" at 1.35v). You need check your SoC first and foremost, meaning you need also re-reset your LLC. The worst your silicon is, the more SoC it will take to run them there.



YautjaLord said:


> i hope GB releases EFI update that fixes the "issue"



You do know they're the slowest of them all, right? In regard to BIOS updates? And that even when they do offer an update, only the foolhardy would download without at least a couple of months having elapsed? 
Giga is good when what they offer can do exactly what you need. Chances are it will probably surprise you by doing more.
Giga is not the company to go to when in dire need of 'future support' that is currently not available.

That said, i obviously hope i'm proven wrong in your case.


----------



## YautjaLord (Apr 14, 2017)

Aenra said:


> You do know they're the slowest of them all, right? In regard to BIOS updates? And that even when they do offer an update, only the foolhardy would download without at least a couple of months having elapsed?
> Giga is good when what they offer can do exactly what you need. Chances are it will probably surprise you by doing more.
> Giga is not the company to go to when in dire need of 'future support' that is currently not available.
> 
> That said, i obviously hope i'm proven wrong in your case.



That's why i said July or even August, yeah they've being extremely slow on EFI/BIOS updates compared to ASRock, ASUS and/or MSI, actually for a laughs it's really hilarious the board i chose for my build doesn't even have the "Improved stability" update it's Gaming 5 variant has (F5 or F5b EFI update), but i digress.  Board looks wicked regardless, fits the HAF X's black & LED red theme. Cheers.


----------



## infrared (Apr 14, 2017)

psyko12 said:


> Finally I can contribute here  I've managed to make my 1700x GA-Gaming K7 and Trident Z up and running.
> 
> But encountering a bit of problem with my rams getting it's rated speed up and running.
> 
> ...



As @the54thvoid suggested, I'd try a higher vcore first as that isn't a lot of offset, followed by a bit more SoC voltage (try 1.1-1.2v)

I'd also suggest getting memtest86+ put on a usb stick and booting into that to check your ram is stable (go to test 7 and let that loop a few times C-1-3-7-enter-0), if it fails then you know ram is the problem, if that passes and you're still getting crashes or failing p95 then you know it's CPU related.


----------



## psyko12 (Apr 14, 2017)

Thanks for the inputs! Will be reading it, yeah a friend of mine says it's due to low or un-proper VCore.



HTC said:


> Try following the steps described here and see how it goes.
> 
> Though the board is different, dude uses this sort of approach for any AM4 board he uses.
> 
> See if that helps.



Thanks, will be reading it 



the54thvoid said:


> Could easily be too low a voltage. Your offset is minimal and that prime fail could be related to a struggling clock speed.
> Don't rush to blame memory. Having tinkered about for a week or so, i had to stabilise voltage. Good chips will get by at 3.8 under 1.4v but i see a lot of users needing more than 1.4v. And with Vdroop, LLC becomes a necessity.





infrared said:


> As @the54thvoid suggested, I'd try a higher vcore first as that isn't a lot of offset, followed by a bit more SoC voltage (try 1.1-1.2v)
> 
> I'd also suggest getting memtest86+ put on a usb stick and booting into that to check your ram is stable (go to test 7 and let that loop a few times C-1-3-7-enter-0), if it fails then you know ram is the problem, if that passes and you're still getting crashes or failing p95 then you know it's CPU related.



Thanks guys will try to play with VCore but what are safe voltages to start with and I think I will not be using offsets any more I feel it's not working due to CNQ and Green features get disabled once you OC. 

How high would I be worried as far as temps go for the Tdie?

Will be doing the memtest as well thanks @the54thvoid  , @HTC  and @infrared

EDIT: What about LLC, I only have it at Auto...
W/c one do I choose Norm, High, Extreme, Turbo?


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 14, 2017)

psyko12 said:


> Thanks for the inputs! Will be reading it, yeah a friend of mine says it's due to low or un-proper VCore.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have Vcore at 1.44v , LLC at 4 (1-5, 5 being highest).  My CPU is air cooled and it reaches 65-70 under Real Bench (found instability where Prime 95 didn't).  The TDie temp (and what Ryzen Master says) is 45-50 degrees but I DO NOT believe that.  My VRM temp hits on average 65 max during stress testing at that voltage.  Extreme power phase on and spread spectrum disabled.  I also have VDDP at 1.09 (auto is 0.94).  I read on OCN that it helps with memory overclocks.

Given my VRM readings - very far within safe limits, the voltage is fine (in my noob mind).  After 3.9Ghz, temps start to rise dramatically for myself and others, so be aware.  The voltage increase didn't increase temps much at all.

I'll post my HWinfo numbers to give an idea of what voltages I'm using across the board.  I *think* I'm 3.9Ghz stable.


----------



## infrared (Apr 14, 2017)

With that cooler I expect 1.40v would be fine short term, 1.375 or less longer term. You won't hurt the chip with that voltage.  I'm using LLC at 3 for up to 1.4v (probably "high" if your options are "Norm, High, Extreme, Turbo") Experiment with this yourself though, you need to look at idle and load voltage, if voltage dips under load, more LLC is needed, if it goes up with load then you've got too much.

If mine wasn't at 100% load all the time I'd probably try to use the offset voltage, but from what I've seen the power savings are very minimal (it uses very little power at idle) and it definitely makes overclocking easier by setting a fixed voltage.

Temperature is a bit of an unknown as no-one has killed a chip with heat yet to my knowledge, and it should throttle before then anyway. Personally I would try to keep it under 75c ish, I doubt short stints above that would hurt the chip at all. Get realbench/p95/aida fired up and see where you end up 

Good luck 

Edit: The 1.4v recommendation is based more on the fact that they get very inefficient beyond that point, I don't think even 1.45v would be 'harmful', and I've spent a couple of hours at 1.58v with no ill effects, although it was totally pointless, more than 1.45v just seems to make the system _less_ stable at ambient temps.


----------



## psyko12 (Apr 14, 2017)

I think I made it???!! Booting up with 3200mhz and not getting fatal errors on prime95 now!!

Things I did:

Disabled CNQ , C-State and CPB
Multi to 38
Blck 100.10
Set XMP
tweaked timing from 16 18 18 18 38 to 16 15 15 15 36
VCore Normal + 0.0750v [could not remember how many zeroes]  (Getting 1.45v in cpu z-)
VSoc 1.1v
Ram Volts 1.40v
LLC to High

Can I tweak the voltages or I'm running too high for 3.8? Highest temp seen so far 74c



EDIT: Fail image linking hahahahah sorry


----------



## infrared (Apr 14, 2017)

Hmmm, I'd trust HWinfo over cpuz for voltage, it's usually pretty accurate but not always. If you want to be sure get hwmonitor to compare, but from what I can see there it's at 1.385v which is a good place to be. You might be able to get to 3.85-3.9ghz at that voltage, try raising the multiplier .25 at a time and see how you do. Temps are okay, I wouldn't take voltage any higher. Edit - if you're happy with 3.8ghz you can probably reduce Vcore a smidge.

Looking good though, nicely done


----------



## psyko12 (Apr 14, 2017)

infrared said:


> Hmmm, I'd trust HWinfo over cpuz for voltage, it's usually pretty accurate but not always. If you want to be sure get hwmonitor to compare, but from what I can see there it's at 1.385v which is a good place to be. You might be able to get to 3.85-3.9ghz at that voltage, try raising the multiplier .25 at a time and see how you do. Temps are okay, I wouldn't take voltage any higher. Edit - if you're happy with 3.8ghz you can probably reduce Vcore a smidge.
> 
> Looking good though, nicely done


Thanks. Could have not done it without you guys! I'm gonna go and play with voltages this boards bios is a pita it tends to get bad rom errors when you eff up and have to reflash! But now I have a baseline to follow so I'm going to keep on tweaking!


----------



## f22a4bandit (Apr 14, 2017)

My parts arrived today! They're waiting at home for the build


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 14, 2017)

I tried a setting lower for voltage but it failed running real bench. I need 1.43v steady for 3.9Ghz.  No other way about it.


----------



## psyko12 (Apr 14, 2017)

I think I'll settle with 3.825 Ghz for the moment and observe how she behaves for the days coming... 

May be this will be like my daily driver speeds but who knows. Hehe I'm not afraid to push further but the Philippine summer time is punishing to every kind of being, machine or man LOL, we get ambient room temps of high 30+c with no AC when it's noon - afternoon time. What a scorcher!

Thank you for all the help TPU


----------



## infrared (Apr 14, 2017)

Wow, that's scorching  And no prob, glad we can help 

Hold the phone... the volts are 1.44, i wonder why hwinfo was reading differently earlier. 

Hopefully you'll still be able to run less than 1.4 for 3825mhz, you're probably running enough voltage for 3.9ghz+ atm.


----------



## Aenra (Apr 14, 2017)

YautjaLord said:


> That's why i said July or even August, yeah they've being extremely slow on EFI/BIOS updates compared to ASRock, ASUS and/or MSI, actually for a laughs it's really hilarious the board i chose for my build doesn't even have the "Improved stability" update it's Gaming 5 variant has (F5 or F5b EFI update), but i digress



Not at all and anyway, my fault for broaching it


----------



## psyko12 (Apr 14, 2017)

infrared said:


> Wow, that's scorching  And no prob, glad we can help
> 
> Hold the phone... the volts are 1.44, i wonder why hwinfo was reading differently earlier.
> 
> Hopefully you'll still be able to run less than 1.4 for 3825mhz, you're probably running enough voltage for 3.9ghz+ atm.



Indeed , I always keep a chilled water bottle next to me hahah!
I'm not sure as well about the voltages, and now it's reading different again LOL.....



EDIT: HOLD That hhaha fail me. I'm looking at a different section at voltages. I'm trying to lower it now and see If I get some failures.

Thanks for pointing it!


----------



## techtard (Apr 15, 2017)

FML had some weird payment glitch and by the time it got sorted my ddr4 became out of stock and put on backorder. So I'm gonna have a Ryzen 1600 and X370 paperweight for who knows how long.


----------



## psyko12 (Apr 15, 2017)

techtard said:


> FML had some weird payment glitch and by the time it got sorted my ddr4 became out of stock and put on backorder. So I'm gonna have a Ryzen 1600 and X370 paperweight for who knows how long.



Bummer. What ram are you planning on getting?

Update. I wonder how I will make the ram stable with a lower vcore...

Right now as per hwinfo I'm at 1.414 to 1.428 and sometimes jumps to 1.44 @ 3.8ghz with LLC to high. Going lower makes prime95 throw a fit...

 I gues I'm not lucky with the silicon lottery or the bios is not yet tuned well enough...


I also ran a realbench stress for 15 mins and it passes.

Did a bench but I'm not sure about the score I got if it's decent...


----------



## gupsterg (Apr 15, 2017)

I'll join peeps in Zen garden  .



Spoiler


----------



## EntropyZ (Apr 15, 2017)

Got my build w/ 1600 and AsRock AB350M Pro4 working yesterday, I have to say I am impressed so far. The AsRock bios has a TON of options, but it doesn't look as fancy, it reminds more of the first UEFI bios'es, but that's OK. A shame the board doesn't have dual BIOS chips like most if not all Gigabyte motherboards have, but I can live with that, even with the odds of having a short power outage are rare, they do happen twice or thrice in a year.

I really liked the feature to be able to update the firmware straight from the internet w/o having any storage what-so-ever. It just works. Chose that motherboard over the others simply because it has larger VRM section than other uATX boards out there right now. And it looks pretty decent too. I don't need much connectivity, dual M.2 is a plus, and X-Fire is possible through some hacks on this board.

I'm stuck w/ one stick of RAM situated in the slot that supports highest frequency memory. So I have absolutely no idea what effect dual-channel has. Nobody tests with Single-Channel anymore. Tried OC'ing it higher than XMP, and that ended in an instant boot-loop (this just ain't as easy as doing it on an FX or a Phenom II), I'm assuming most DDR4 sticks are Dual-Rank which makes it higher to get a decent OC, and if you do get a higher frequency, the latency will have to be set a lot higher for you to even be able to get into BIOS again.

Idles are at 32-38c for the CPU, it's ok I guess for stock cooling, but the fan is friggin' quiet and looks so much better than anything else that's stock. Though I have to note that Intel's LGA775 coolers meant for their higher end pentiums back in the day w/ copper slugs are damn heavy. Like it seems to weigh almost as much as my AM4 board with the heatsink placed on it. I just want to cable tie that thing on this thing and get better temperatures .

So I am pretty happy right now. Just that I don't know how much I can actually push the CPU with better cooling and how much of an FPS improvement I can expect from higher frequency RAM in select titles.

I am awaiting for more firmware updates, they seem to make a decent difference on a system level. Also the software will be very slow to get optimized, won't get any faster even if Lisa Su would start tapping her feet.


----------



## HTC (Apr 15, 2017)

techtard said:


> FML had some weird payment glitch and by the time it got sorted my ddr4 became out of stock and put on backorder. So I'm gonna have a Ryzen 1600 and X370 paperweight for who knows how long.



That sucks dude 

That's actually why i've yet to order anything until i'm 100% sure all that i want (board, RAM and CPU) are available and ready for shipment. Since the board i want (Taichi) is not even available on my neck of the woods, this upgrade is on standby, for the moment.


----------



## psyko12 (Apr 16, 2017)

Update on my ax370 gaming k7. When I cold booted today lo and behold bios got reset and an error message. Rom not found. What I did is turn off flip switch to bios 2 booted to stock f2. Flipped switch to bios 1. And then proceeded to flash f3 bios.  Back now to bios f3... For whatever reason my last setting before borking did not work kept on failing with prime. 

Since the last mix with 3.8 ghz and 3200mhz the vcore was too high to make it work. 

I thought of trying something. 
Dropped vcore to auto just to see what it pulls from 3.8.. It's pulling 1.38v from auto..

 So I've set vcore to normal with an offset.
VSoc 1.2
Ram 1.4
Xmp on but dropped to 2933
16 15 15 15 36
LLC to high

Now booted back to Windows 
Ram timing stuck. It was reading proper. 
Temps are good I think. Idling 39-40ish
Running prime95 highest I've seen is 79c
Now left realbench stress it max temp seen so far is around 79-80c

Will this be an ok daily setting or I still need to tweak on things? 

P.S. Sorry for wall of text.


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 16, 2017)

Once you start overclocking, it's hard to say you'll stop tweaking.  Keep an eye on temps but if you're happy and the system performs where you want it to, be content.
I wanted 3.9 minimum for my jump to AMD to be a 'happy' move. I have 3.9 and it's sort of mostly stable but I'm at 1.45v though temps are comfortable.  
I read another site where a forum member mentioned 1.45v was fine for use and he was an AMD guy. He said up to 1.55v (incidentally my chips VID on HWinfo) was doable but risked long term damage.


----------



## Aenra (Apr 16, 2017)

@psyko12 bit of advice. Never, ever switch BIOS unless it's the apocalypse. And even then, there are ways.
Next time you get this, hard reset the active BIOS and start over; if you're lazy, you can always save/export your BIOS last settings so you don't have to re-enter everything.

Again, never switch BIOS, especially in a period where everything's practically still in Beta.

Advice number two 
Always, always, update BIOS through uefiflash. The old way. Not through the mobo's UEFI, most definitely not through Windows.

You never know and it only happens once. Except if it does.....

Advice number three 

Stop hammering your CPU to pieces with Prime. You are K-I-L-L-I-N-G it. Use a lighter stresser, get everything 101% stable. Then and only then run Prime. Hopefully once or twice at most, just enough for you to add that extra voltage it's gonna need (and that's assuming you need it, the conditions it emulates are beyond [in terms of resource-intensive] what most users will ever encounter).


----------



## psyko12 (Apr 16, 2017)

Prior to replies and my last post I've found my happy place at 3.85 ghz @ 1.38v gave up on 3200mhz ram and just made it run at 2933mhz without issue.
VSoC and Dram V is at 1.1 and 1.35v.
Passed 30 mins of prime and now happily running realbench stability test for about 5 hours now.

 Temps are much more manageable
Highest it got was 81c but most of the time its 75-77c and idles about 39-40ish.


@Aenra
Mem aren't found on qvl

And the bios recovery method was from gigabyte forum and ocn. It is a known issue with the board (x370 gaming k7)  that it borks bios and you get that error message else it won't save settings and boot normally until you turn it off. Flip bios switch to use back up and recover from there. 
And bios f3 is from the site support page. Not a beta.

This time I feel it's gonna be daily usable.


----------



## Aenra (Apr 16, 2017)

@psyko12 i don't think you understood me in all honesty, but either way, it's all good 
If you don't mind, could you link me that thread please? I've set up a Ryzen with your mobo and have had literally zero issues, including in RAM OCing. You never know though, so i'd like to have a look.


----------



## psyko12 (Apr 16, 2017)

I understood you about what you said @Aenra hehe. My brains just afloat too may headaches with ram compatibility but hey got through it tho. 

Here's where I gather some info about the board and other users exp. 

http://forum.gigabyte.us/thread/886/am4-beta-bios-thread

And

http://www.overclock.net/t/1625822/gigabyte-ga-ax370-gaming-k7-discussion


Mmm since you have the board do you know how to use the creative sound card built in? Is it front panel only or the rear one? 
Thanks!


----------



## Aenra (Apr 16, 2017)

psyko12 said:


> since you have the board do you know how to use the creative sound card built in? Is it front panel only or the rear one?



Nephew does, i was just the slave 
The front panel part depends on you and the case you're using. If your case supports it and if you've plugged the relevant cable (must be one labeled 'sound' or 'output') in the appropriate mobo header spot (same one you plug the front LED cables, the 'Power On', etc), you should be able to have output from up front too. I don't have the manual in front of me and we didn't do it in his case as he doesn't care about it, so can't be specific. Definitely yes though, you should be able to.

Edit: aah, i see now.. you went and got yourself a Beta BIOS, O.K. I'd add more advice, but i fear you'd ignore it. Just mind your steps


----------



## psyko12 (Apr 16, 2017)

Well I've yet to try it haha I plugged them as the manual suggested for the front panel. Haven't tinkered with other features of the system at the moment. Most likely by tom. And also I've been using my heaphones built in soundcard haha.. Anyway cheers mate. Thanks for the tip. I'll be using a more forgiving test for the system like aida64 / occt . Hope to hear your share of adventures with the ryzen system too!


----------



## techtard (Apr 16, 2017)

psyko12 said:


> Bummer. What ram are you planning on getting?



Ordered some Corsair LPX 3200, price-matched it so it was as cheap as the slower stuff.


----------



## YautjaLord (Apr 16, 2017)

Y'know? I basically have almost entire system right now at my hands, only things MIA are CPU itself (1800X), Win 10 Pro (even tho it's almost pure f*ckin hate lol) & the EK's custom cooling kit or for a lack of it AMD's Wraith Max: 2x16GB DDR4 2400MHz CL15 Ripjaws V? Check. Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SATA III SSD? (will have it this Tuesday or Friday tops) Check. 2xGTX 760s from ASUS? (will use K7's SLI bridge on these) Check. Corsair's HX1000 PSU? Check. Can go for CPU & HSF (Wraith Max) next month & forget? What ya'all think? Will work? Can install Win 7 stead (til get my hands on that either abomination or fine OS, Win 10) from my current SSD (Corsair Force GS 240GB) to the new one.


----------



## gupsterg (Apr 16, 2017)

psyko12 said:


> Prior to replies and my last post I've found my happy place at 3.85 ghz @ 1.38v gave up on 3200mhz ram and just made it run at 2933mhz without issue.



I had 2x R7 1700 all on same hardware. One did 2933MHz with ease and 3200MHz out of it's reach. The other did 3200MHz with ease.

As firmware improves we should see improvement, but in the back of my mind I reckon there will always be some CPU that just will not like high RAM speed.

As RAM speed determines "Data Fabric" speed I reckon some CPUs just don't like that aspect, could well also be IMC, but then again firmware. All in the air at the moment.


----------



## Aenra (Apr 16, 2017)

Which is why i said stop playing with the RAM voltage and add in SoC instead.
(not saying it's not possible, never managing to run it no matter what, it appears it is. Just, you know).


----------



## psyko12 (Apr 16, 2017)

gupsterg said:


> I had 2x R7 1700 all on same hardware. One did 2933MHz with ease and 3200MHz out of it's reach. The other did 3200MHz with ease.
> 
> As firmware improves we should see improvement, but in the back of my mind I reckon there will always be some CPU that just will not like high RAM speed.
> 
> As RAM speed determines "Data Fabric" speed I reckon some CPUs just don't like that aspect, could well also be IMC, but then again firmware. All in the air at the moment.



Yeah I'm thinking there's more to the silicon lottery, and now that includes those factors but I might be wrong


----------



## EntropyZ (Apr 16, 2017)

Tried overclocking a 1x8 Corsair Vengeance LPX 2400MHz CL15 stick, afaik it's dual-rank. Went to 2933MHz CL17 @ 1.3v 0.650 VTT,  on my second RAM slot. I wonder if that's any good at all. 3200MHz would most likely require higher voltage and timings, not worth it IMO.

I compared it to some Kingston HyperX 2x8 2133MHz CL14, they can't get past 2400MHz no matter what, even in single channel. 2666MHz requires some insane voltages and timings to get stable. No wonder they sell them cheaper, the 14nm dies on them are not that good.

My intuition tells me right now for Ryzen it's; SK Hynix<Micron<Samsung<Samsung-B

Don't know where Samsung-E lies, but some of them overclock well on Intel platform.

My 1600 can run at 3.8GHz on stock voltage or slightly lower pretty easily, temperatures were what most would expect with AMD Spire cooling. I might try going for 4.1 or even 4.2 just for sh**s and giggles. This chip very much reminds me of my Phenom II X4 960T which could unlock to a six-core and run at 4.0GHz on air comfortably.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Apr 23, 2017)

My Asus Prime X370-Pro and Ryzen 7 1700 just arrive. 
Let's see what this thing can do...
Don't have high hopes on my current RAM though.

Took me a while to figure out the Asus UEFI, but it's up and running now.
Going to take me some time to tweak my RAM, as so far it won't run at anything above 2133MHz 

Any tips welcome, I can't overclock the CPU or RAM a single MHz 

I also missed the fact that this board lacks about half of the overclocking features that the more expensive boards have. Oh well...


----------



## gupsterg (Apr 23, 2017)

D.O.C.P should read XMP profile and set timings/voltages as need for RAM. Then you can pick lower straps, 3rd image in this link. Currently the platform is very picky on RAM. Hopefully as UEFI mature this aspect will improve.

I'm surprised you gain no CPU OC, most owner shares I have read 3.7GHz "All cores boost" is easily attainable. R7 1700 stock ACB is 3.2GHz.

Are you using latest UEFI?


----------



## HD64G (Apr 23, 2017)

Anyone who uses Adobe Premier Pro should check out this video about an update that helps Ryzen's performance MUCH!


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## TheLostSwede (Apr 24, 2017)

gupsterg said:


> D.O.C.P should read XMP profile and set timings/voltages as need for RAM. Then you can pick lower straps, 3rd image in this link. Currently the platform is very picky on RAM. Hopefully as UEFI mature this aspect will improve.
> 
> I'm surprised you gain no CPU OC, most owner shares I have read 3.7GHz "All cores boost" is easily attainable. R7 1700 stock ACB is 3.2GHz.
> 
> Are you using latest UEFI?



Yeah, on 0604. If I make any changes at all in the UEFI that has something to do with the RAM or CPU, it gets stuck in the recovery loop and then I have to hit F1 to get into the UEFI to reset the settings. Voltage settings are the only things I can change without a total meltdown. Timings, speed, or anything else, not a chance.

I tried D.O.C.P. which wants to go to 2,933MHz, but I can't even make that work at 2,133MHz.

I've found reports of other people with the same board being able to get their RAM to at least 2,400MHz on the RYMEM website.

I found another problem though, which is related to my RAM. The 0604 UEFI only sees 8GB of the total of 16GB. I've contacted Asus support about this, as it's a rather odd issue that shouldn't be happening and this might also be the reason as to why I can't change any settings.

Might have to buy some different RAM 

According to a friend of mine that works at the ROG division at Asus, they should have a major UEFI update coming sometime in May that should address a lot of the RAM related issues though.


----------



## gupsterg (Apr 24, 2017)

I reckon case of waiting on UEFI to mature then go for RAM bump.

I do reckon there is variability between the CPUs on what they attain for RAM. Just like you are seeing data for same setup as yours getting 2400MHz. The thing with Ryzen is that RAM speed effects Data Fabric speed, perhaps the IMC are AOK and the DF has an issue. Perhaps as AGESA improve they are tweaking it for aspect of DF. Conjecture only on my part, so take with pinch of salt.

When RAM training fails on Ryzen it will try to knock down speed and/or a dimm, windows will show full amount but state half is "hardware reserved", in this latter case dunno what UEFI would show.

For me when training has failed I get knock'd back to 2133MHz, this is rare for my system and happens on "cold boot" when on 3200MHz. 2933MHz or lower not an issue. I also have what is supposed to be "ideal" RAM, single rank, 1 dimm per channel, Samsung 'B-die'. As said before all rest hardware same, one R7 1700 only reach 2933MHz, another 3200MHz for me.


----------



## EntropyZ (Apr 24, 2017)

I wonder when it will be possible to fine tune other RAM timings, it's all pretty much done on auto, then there is that Ryzen training setting on the AsRock AB350M Pro4 BIOS but I am not sure what it exactly does, no explanation on it. I haven't found a way to raise MEM VTT outside of "Ryzen Master", if I mem oc in the BIOS the system will boot loop, tuning through RM seems to go smoothly for the most part.

Just found out how to take screenies inside UEFI BIOS, just use F12 or maybe print screen while having a USB stick inserted. The more you know.


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 24, 2017)

Silly long shot but.....

Check the CPU for bent pins? No CPU overclock sounds really odd. Mix that with memory and it could be a pin issue?

Like I say, long shot.


----------



## gupsterg (Apr 24, 2017)

@EntropyZ

Hope is May update. Raja@Asus/Elmor who work for Asus, on OCN have highlighted there is hope but no confirmation yet.

On C6H all we have is:-



> Only DRAM timings available are TCL, TRCRDD, TRCWRD, TRPT and TRAS.



Using a lower strap changes other timings, in OP of this thread, section *My Benches Collection > CINEBENCH R15.038_RC184115*, you will find Asus MemTweakIt screens. I only change RAM strap in UEFI and the timings I have access to are manually set.

So on a board where BCLK is adjustable upping that and using lower strap is more "efficient" than using appropriate strap with BCLK 100MHz. Motherboards without BCLK adjustment, it may soon happen, first see this post by a BioStar GT7 owner, then read this post by The Stilt.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Apr 25, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> Silly long shot but.....
> 
> Check the CPU for bent pins? No CPU overclock sounds really odd. Mix that with memory and it could be a pin issue?
> 
> Like I say, long shot.



No, that's not the issue.


----------



## m0nt3 (Apr 25, 2017)

If anyone is interested. I have 4x16GB of DDR4 2666 working at 2666 on my corsshair vi using corsair vengence lpx. Since I know RAM capacity + speed are some concerns with the ryzen platform.


----------



## techtard (Apr 25, 2017)

Finally got my ddr4 ram in yesterday, have been doing some testing in Win 7. Able to get my Ryzen 5 1600 to 3.8ghz @1.25v in bios with the spire cooler and 2x8gb Corsair LPX at 2933 pretty stable so far. Not on the newest UEFI/bios so I might be able to hit 3200 on the ram. Currently on bios 0502.

This is on the Asus Prime X370 Pro.

Waiting for a my new waterblock before I make a run at 4.0, I don't want to accidentally kill anything.
Everything seems to run smooth so far, pretty fun to be tinkering again.

EDIT Rolling in an old Antec P182 case, but it seems both of my side-panels and front door are missing. Forgot how solid this case was, I'm gonna have to track down some panels and I might just keep the Ryzen setup in here.


----------



## psyko12 (Apr 26, 2017)

As @the54thvoid  said, once you start overclockin' you can't stop 

Well after a week and a half of pullin' my hair out and tweaking things, borking and re-flashing the bios on this GA-AX370 Gaming K7, I finally landed into maybe an ok daily (real daily driver) until more bios features comes out (YEAH Gigabyte am talking about this "flaghsip" not getting any BIOS love atm *shakes fist*).

I've managed to make my xmp work with my g.skils trident zeds that are SK HYNIX single ranks (I thought it was samsung, well anyway).

Here's where am at right now:



Spoiler


----------



## Johan45 (Apr 26, 2017)

psyko12 said:


> As @the54thvoid  said, once you start overclockin' you can't stop
> 
> Well after a week and a half of pullin' my hair out and tweaking things, borking and re-flashing the bios on this GA-AX370 Gaming K7, I finally landed into maybe an ok daily (real daily driver) until more bios features comes out (YEAH Gigabyte am talking about this "flaghsip" not getting any BIOS love atm *shakes fist*).
> 
> ...


Looks good psyko, just FYI go by the core voltage SVi2 that's what is being fed to the CPU after any vDroop. As for BIOS updates, they're likely waiting to base it on the updated AGESA , it's "supposed" to make memry easier to work with. We'll see about that though.


----------



## psyko12 (Apr 26, 2017)

Johan45 said:


> Looks good psyko, just FYI go by the core voltage SVi2 that's what is being fed to the CPU after any vDroop. As for BIOS updates, they're likely waiting to base it on the updated AGESA , it's "supposed" to make memry easier to work with. We'll see about that though.



Thanks for that tip. Will tweak further!


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 26, 2017)

psyko12 said:


> As @the54thvoid  said, once you start overclockin' you can't stop
> 
> Well after a week and a half of pullin' my hair out and tweaking things, borking and re-flashing the bios on this GA-AX370 Gaming K7, I finally landed into maybe an ok daily (real daily driver) until more bios features comes out (YEAH Gigabyte am talking about this "flaghsip" not getting any BIOS love atm *shakes fist*).
> 
> ...



That's a nice voltage for that clock (in my book anyway).  Your temps look high though?  My core max is mid 70's at my set up and right now idles at 34 degrees @ 1.45v for 3.892Ghz.

Ambients are high teens, low 20's though.


----------



## cdawall (Apr 26, 2017)

HD64G said:


> Anyone who uses Adobe Premier Pro should check out this video about an update that helps Ryzen's performance MUCH!



@sil3ntearth


----------



## techtard (Apr 26, 2017)

Currently battling to get 3.9 stable. Was able to boot into Windows 7 and run Cinebench at a reasonable voltage, but Prime95 crashes after 1-2 hours.
Was able to boot into Windows and run cinebench at 4.0ghz as well, but after failing Prime @ 1.4 v on the stock cooler I decided to leave that for when I get this rig on water.

I'm really liking how this system runs, will be awesome when I finally get my clocks dialed in.

EDIT looks like I made a minor breakthrough @ 3.9ghz, finally surpassed 2hrs prime stable @ 1.325v.
Now at 3 hours. I added a 120mm fan to cool the VRMs and it also blows onto the spire cooler, looks like this has helped quite a bit. Up over 6 hours stable, things looking good.


----------



## xorbe (Apr 26, 2017)

Motherboard arrives today, then I can tinker with this 1500X finally w/openSUSE tumbleweed.  Accidentally bought a $99 Samsung 850 evo 250gb when I had a spare 128gb M4, oops. =/  Well looks like the Linux box is getting an ssd upgrade too.

edit: Well this was one of the easiest builds ever.  Everything just worked without any glitches so far.  Asus Prime B350M-A/CSM + latest bios, and G.Skill Fortis 2x8gb 2400.


----------



## psyko12 (Apr 27, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> That's a nice voltage for that clock (in my book anyway).  Your temps look high though?  My core max is mid 70's at my set up and right now idles at 34 degrees @ 1.45v for 3.892Ghz.
> 
> Ambients are high teens, low 20's though.



It's summer time here aaaaaaaand a whopping high 32-40c ambient room temp..  Depends on the time of day, and I think that time when I took the screeny it was high noon. The hottest time of day here in the Philippines.
Well It doesn't go that high in games tho , highest I've seen it is when I was playing BF1 on a conquest map full server, it was high 50's -- or bordering 60 c.

Still thinking of getting a new case too atm still have Carbide 400r, planning to find a better one with better room to handel the noctua.. Or  go AIO/CLC (but still debating)


----------



## EntropyZ (Apr 27, 2017)

Update time: I tried out a Kingston 2x8 2133MHz set, it just would not clock past 2400MHz no matter what, not even in single-channel. The difference between this set and a single stick of DDR4 clocked at 2933MHz, was about 2-3FPS in Skyrim Special Edition (a game that likes higher clocks on CPU and RAM, A LOT).

The Hynix dies on that RAM are either not really compatible with Ryzen or they're just plain bad. The memory is on the QVL, but those dies on it were clearly not meant for overclocking.

From a simple single stick of 2400MHz RAM to Dual-Channel 3200MHz, I should get about 10-12FPS extra on SSE, which is a lot, considering running heavily modded bogs down the frametimes. (Only 4 thread scaling, I have never seen Skyrim or Fallout 4 max out a typical 4 core, everything is pretty much underutilized.)


----------



## psyko12 (Apr 28, 2017)

EntropyZ said:


> Update time: I tried out a Kingston 2x8 2133MHz set, it just would not clock past 2400MHz no matter what, not even in single-channel. The difference between this set and a single stick of DDR4 clocked at 2933MHz, was about 2-3FPS in Skyrim Special Edition (a game that likes higher clocks on CPU and RAM, A LOT).
> 
> The Hynix dies on that RAM are either not really compatible with Ryzen or they're just plain bad. The memory is on the QVL, but those dies on it were clearly not meant for overclocking.
> 
> From a simple single stick of 2400MHz RAM to Dual-Channel 3200MHz, I should get about 10-12FPS extra on SSE, which is a lot, considering running heavily modded bogs down the frametimes.



Yeah others too even with Flare X rams have had problems with hitting XMP settings, those are on QVL and is supposedly be AMD compatible (on our Gaming K7 boards). A few more days til May and we get another AGESA update which brings love to SK Hynix chips.

Source:

Forgot what time he mentioned it , but it was from an AMD spokesperson.


----------



## qubit (Apr 28, 2017)

This should help with gaming performance, people.

http://wccftech.com/amds-new-ryzen-chipset-drivers-boost-performance-power-efficiency


----------



## EntropyZ (Apr 28, 2017)

Going from Noctua to an CLC will push the thermal limit, but how much would someone be willing to pay to go past 3.8GHz while maintaining behind the 70c safe limit for Ryzen chips. For a few hundred MHz of OC it's not really worth it in my opinion, but if it would help keep the system temps lower, full load @ 3.8GHz, I think that might be good enough for some.

There are not a lot of CLC's available, most of the good ones with at least a 240mm rad will go for 120-150 euros in my country. Would rather spend that on a better GPU.  (And! Most of those won't fit a socket AM4)

There was a sick deal on a Deepcool Maelstrom 240T for 50 euros. I wonder why they were trying to sell them out so fast.

The only thing I don't like about big air coolers is that they stick out the cpu socket. The only thing preventing me from using an AIO is their pump lifespan (remember, the only point of repair is the fan, once a water pump dies, you're dead in the water with that thing, some go as long 5 years for people, and some die within a year) and the price. An AIO with a decent pump is nowhere to be found here. The only way to get certain brand parts is to have them shipped here, which costs, *a lot*.


----------



## psyko12 (Apr 28, 2017)

EntropyZ said:


> Going from Noctua to an CLC will push the thermal limit, but how much would someone be willing to pay to go past 3.8GHz while maintaining behind the 70c safe limit for Ryzen chips. For a few hundred MHz of OC it's not really worth it in my opinion, but if it would help keep the system temps lower, full load @ 3.8GHz, I think that might be good enough for some.
> 
> There are not a lot of CLC's available, most of the good ones with at least a 240mm rad will go for 120-150 euros in my country. Would rather spend that on a better GPU.  (And! Most of those won't fit a socket AM4)
> 
> ...




This noctua and I have a love hate relationship hahaha due to my tight case I had problems at times with placing in the fan when I forgot to put it in before mounting it to the board hahah scratched knuckles!
Most likely I will just stick with 3.8 and as time goes on noctua can hold the temps fine, it's just really summer time at the moment and the green features on this gigabyte board does not work when oc'd. We don't even have P-State options in here !!! Heh. 

Most likely I will find a roomier case with better air cooling / air flow options, as of now my case is maxed with fans lolol.

Gawd I hate it when it's summer here.


----------



## EntropyZ (Apr 28, 2017)

I'm all about good case airflow, especially for overclocking, ever since I made the switch from the Cooler Master HAF 912, which has a front 200mm fan, which is decent and better than 120mm fans that come with what I switched to, which was the NZXT Source 340, it was less noisy, but the airflow wasn't as good, the VRM radiator would be significantly hotter in that case. I used to OC the hell out of a Phenom II X6, and the VRMs really needed that fresh air.

So I had to make compromises when trying out the next case, and because I am budget oriented when building a computer, I went with something that has a smaller footprint in size but still has decent airflow, I opted for the ThermalTake Core V21, simply because of the price and what it offered. I can mount 2x240mm rads in this thing, I still get a case window, and I can use 2 orientations for the motherboard and it has a 200mm front fan as stock fan, I might replace it with a PWM capable one, but for now it does the job well.

I'm planning to give it a custom paintjob, since I wanted some white/black accents to make the case blend with the motherboard colors. The front full mesh looks weird to me, I preferred the S340's flat front and clean lines.

I wish there was a follow-up case to the V21, since it came out 4 years ago now. I wish I knew tempered glass cases were gonna be a thing in 2017. Really want to show off that motherboard when someone comes in and looks at the case.


----------



## psyko12 (Apr 28, 2017)

EntropyZ said:


> I'm all about good case airflow, especially for overclocking, ever since I made the switch from the Cooler Master HAF 912, which has a front 200mm fan, which is decent and better than 120mm fans that come with what I switched to, which was the NZXT Source 340, it was less noisy, but the airflow wasn't as good, the VRM radiator would be significantly hotter in that case. I used to OC the hell out of a Phenom II X6, and the VRMs really needed that fresh air.
> 
> So I had to make compromises when trying out the next case, and because I am budget oriented when building a computer, I went with something that has a smaller footprint in size but still has decent airflow, I opted for the ThermalTake Core V21, simply because of the price and what it offered. I can mount 2x240mm rads in this thing, I still get a case window, and I can use 2 orientations for the motherboard and it has a 200mm front fan as stock fan, I might replace it with a PWM capable one, but for now it does the job well.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I'm budget oriented as well and I need a more air flowy case that's mid tower that can handle a huge/long gpu, and the big noctua cooler.. Looking at some corsairs or phanteks.. We'll see in a few months... 

Sigh. 

Just for share tho, any1 with RGB kits encounter the same issue as this guy?










^ Basically his RGB RAM's died and G.Skill told him that the SPD was altered.... Eventually after a few emails he got them to "repair" it and sent it back to him.


----------



## xorbe (Apr 28, 2017)

No matter what voltage offset I add, my 1500X hits a wall between 3800 and 3850.  So I set it to 3700 at stock voltage and called it a day.


----------



## techtard (Apr 28, 2017)

I hit the wall at 4.0ghz with my 1600. But I'm still on the stock cooler, will make a real run at 4.0+ when I get this setup under water. Can't wait for the new Bios next month, hopefully I will get rated speeds out of my Hynix based Corsair LPX.

EDIT Looks like the new bios helps with performance, but I have been getting blackscreens. Was rock solid stable before I upgraded to 0604. Unsure if it's the ram or the cpu. This is gonna be a long night.


----------



## techtard (Apr 30, 2017)

OK it won't let me edit my previous post to add more info so another update in this one.

Tested memory starting at stock for a few hours, no errors. Ended up testing all the way up to ~2999 on the ram again stable. But the new bios seems to require more cpu voltage to remain at 3.9ghz. I went from ~15 hrs stable @1.325V to needing 1.36250V.
Other than the extra voltage needed, the new bios is pretty good.


----------



## Psychoholic (Apr 30, 2017)

I have to say that I'm genuinely impressed with how much more "zippy" and responsive my ryzen 1700 rig is over my 7700K rig.  Gaming also feels smoother dispite lower overall FPS.


----------



## toilet pepper (Apr 30, 2017)

psyko12 said:


> It's summer time here aaaaaaaand a whopping high 32-40c ambient room temp..  Depends on the time of day, and I think that time when I took the screeny it was high noon. The hottest time of day here in the Philippines.
> Well It doesn't go that high in games tho , highest I've seen it is when I was playing BF1 on a conquest map full server, it was high 50's -- or bordering 60 c.
> 
> Still thinking of getting a new case too atm still have Carbide 400r, planning to find a better one with better room to handel the noctua.. Or  go AIO/CLC (but still debating)




Looks like you got the last Aorus X370 k7 from PCoptions. It was gone when I was there. I had to settle for the the Gaming 5.


----------



## psyko12 (Apr 30, 2017)

toilet pepper said:


> Looks like you got the last Aorus X370 k7 from PCoptions. It was gone when I was there. I had to settle for the the Gaming 5.



I didn't buy from there, I bought from Quest Logic


----------



## psyko12 (May 2, 2017)

FWIW. Found this shared from hwbot.

http://overclocking.guide/gigabyte-ryzen-7-overclocking-guide/

xD

EDIT: some of the voltages there way too high for my liking. But mmm not sure about some of the things they increased. Like. Cpu vdd. Need the experts to check this.


----------



## f22a4bandit (May 3, 2017)

After some initial hassle, my Ryzen rig is up and running. I still need to get her dialed in, but I did get Windows installed last night before hitting the sack. I'll take a better picture later.

CPU: R5 1600 @ 3.2 GHz
Motherboard: MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon 
GPU: Sapphire RX 580 Nitro+ 8GB
RAM: G.SKILL TridentZ 16GB


----------



## EntropyZ (May 11, 2017)

From Ryzen discussion post that I shoddily wrote up:

Replaced my Single stick of Corsair Veng. LPX 2400MHz which clocked at 2933MHz easy to Corsair Vengeance LED DDR4 3200MHz 2x8GB which only boots at 2666MHz measly on an R5 1600 as per Ryzen official RAM support. Slightly disappointed it didn't go at least to 2933MHz as well. All I could do is lower the voltage and tighten the timings.

These old non-Ryzen optimized DDR4 modules really suck, even though they were Samsung. No wonder they're on sale in my country right now. Corsair probably trying to get rid of old stock. These things were obviously meant for X99/Z170.

Anyone remember X99 being finicky on launch with DDR4 when it was first used?

I'm holding my breath on BIOS updates making 2933MHz possible at some point with Dual-Rank dotted PCBs. I don't know if the board is the limiting factor or most likely scenario that it is the CPU.


----------



## psyko12 (May 12, 2017)

For anybody who's using a Gigabyte Gaming K7 board like I do, we already have the new AGESA 1.0.0.5 up!! New Beta Bios as seen here:

http://forum.gigabyte.us/thread/886/am4-beta-bios-thread?page=55


----------



## NdMk2o1o (May 28, 2017)

I see quite a few of you who don't mind going over the supposed AMD recommended safe voltage of 1.35v, just asking as my 1600 will do 3.8@1.3v but I need around 1.36 for 3.9 stable and 1.425 for 4ghz so I think I'm leaning towards the 3.9 1.36v as a daily driver, 4.0 would be nice but not sure I would be happy with the high vcore

Also is there still no way to OC from the bios and have lower idle clocks? I know the vcore drops but it would be nice to lower the clocks as well without using software OC


----------



## the54thvoid (May 28, 2017)

NdMk2o1o said:


> I see quite a few of you who don't mind going over the supposed AMD recommended safe voltage of 1.35v, just asking as my 1600 will do 3.8@1.3v but I need around 1.36 for 3.9 stable and 1.425 for 4ghz so I think I'm leaning towards the 3.9 1.36v as a daily driver, 4.0 would be nice but not sure I would be happy with the high vcore
> 
> Also is there still no way to OC from the bios and have lower idle clocks? I know the vcore drops but it would be nice to lower the clocks as well without using software OC



You need to mes around (at some length) with P-states.  @Johan45 might be able to point you in the right direction.


----------



## Norton (May 29, 2017)

Got my Ryzen build all spec'd out and ordered to upgrade my main rig (My Fortress in my System Specs):

- Ryzen 1600X
- Asrock AB350 Fatal1ty Gaming K4
- 2x8GB G-Skill Trident Z 3200
- Noctua NH-U14S cooler
- Visiontek RX 580 OC
- WD Blue 500GB SSD
- Seagate Firecuda 2TB SSHD
*Parts I'm reusing
- Corsair HX850 psu
- Silverstone Fortress FT-01
- DVD drives

Should be a nice upgrade from the FX-8350/Radeon 7870 that I'm currently running


----------



## Grings (May 29, 2017)

@Norton  Make sure the TridentZ are single sided ones, a few of the 3200 sets use dual sided dimms


----------



## NdMk2o1o (May 29, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> You need to mes around (at some length) with P-states.  @Johan45 might be able to point you in the right direction.


Yea, I read a guide on overclockers (I think) that went into them, think I'll have to have another look when I'm not under the influence or just deal with the fact that it's going to


Norton said:


> Got my Ryzen build all spec'd out and ordered to upgrade my main rig (My Fortress in my System Specs):
> 
> - Ryzen 1600X
> - Asrock AB350 Fatal1ty Gaming K4
> ...


Nice build, I'd suggest going for the 1600 as opposed to the 1600x however unless you don't plan to overclock as they both will hit the same clocks give or take, and good call on the b350 as opposed to an x370 because the limited oc potential of Ryzen chips in general means you will still hit the same core speed and wall before the limitations of the chipset come into play


----------



## Norton (May 29, 2017)

Grings said:


> @Norton  Make sure the TridentZ are single sided ones, a few of the 3200 sets use dual sided dimms


They are dual sided but they are Samsung B chips- probably won't get 3200 but will be happy with getting a mild overclock on them- can always replace in the future when more choices are available.




NdMk2o1o said:


> Nice build, I'd suggest going for the 1600 as opposed to the 1600x however unless you don't plan to overclock as they both will hit the same clocks give or take, and good call on the b350 as opposed to an x370 because the limited oc potential of Ryzen chips in general means you will still hit the same core speed and wall before the limitations of the chipset come into play


Was planning to go with the 1600 but got the 1600X and the mb as a package deal for $305 

Not looking to break records with these parts- just a nicely running daily driver


----------



## NdMk2o1o (May 29, 2017)

Norton said:


> They are dual sided but they are Samsung B chips- probably won't get 3200 but will be happy with getting a mild overclock on them- can always replace in the future when more choices are available.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



2933 is so easy compared to 3200 at least for me with my 2800 dominators, I wouldn't worry too much just yet 

my 1600 and basic AB350m cost me $255 and I can still hit 4ghz on this eeny weeny mATX board


----------



## psyko12 (May 29, 2017)

We now have AGESA 1006 for some of the Gigabyte AM4 boards. It's still beta but the rates of running higher mhz rams have a higher success rate with this bios.


http://forum.gigabyte.us/thread/886/am4-beta-bios-thread


----------



## Johan45 (May 30, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> You need to mes around (at some length) with P-states.  @Johan45 might be able to point you in the right direction.


Only if he has that option which the mATX he has may not.
Been quite busy the last little bit.
@NdMk2o1o  If you want power savings there are two way I know of. One is using the Ryzen master software and the secon is in BIOS if it's available on your board. Check to see if you have a section called AMD CBS or Ryzen specific options. One that allows you to edit the P-States at BIOS level.


----------



## R-T-B (May 31, 2017)

Take that, f'in thermal-goop-happy intel

To think I was actually thinking of going HEDT...  No.  My Ryzen protest is now complete:

Hey guys.




 

Reuisng my old ram (Good samsung B-die shit) and other parts, will be selling off the i7-7700k and ASUS mobo later.


----------



## justimber (May 31, 2017)

wow @R-T-B
I was just reading the earlier posts on another thread and here it is...a new toy


----------



## R-T-B (May 31, 2017)

justimber said:


> wow @R-T-B
> I was just reading the earlier posts on another thread and here it is...a new toy



It's the first time I've ever bought a "protest toy" but yes, I love toys.


----------



## Nuckles56 (May 31, 2017)

Very nice @R-T-B , just as I build a ryzen rig myself


----------



## NdMk2o1o (May 31, 2017)

Johan45 said:


> Only if he has that option which the mATX he has may not.
> Been quite busy the last little bit.
> @NdMk2o1o  If you want power savings there are two way I know of. One is using the Ryzen master software and the secon is in BIOS if it's available on your board. Check to see if you have a section called AMD CBS or Ryzen specific options. One that allows you to edit the P-States at BIOS level.


I do have the options to customise the p states in the bios, not really keen on using software to oc tbh but would be nice to have the lower clocks when idle/browsing etc

@R-T-B welcome back to the light side of the force


----------



## Johan45 (May 31, 2017)

Here's a guide I did for the CHVI http://www.overclockers.com/forums/...air-VI-P-State-modification-for-power-savings
Not sure how your is set up but likely similar. The easiest way to do it at least on CHVI is to set your OC. Then go to P-States. On CHVI the Pstate 0 will now show your current multi. Set it to manual with that setting go back to main then set the multi in auto and voltage in offset if you need to add some


----------



## R-T-B (May 31, 2017)

NdMk2o1o said:


> @R-T-B welcome back to the light side of the force



It's been so long...  It's like I've forgotten what fresh air tastes like.


----------



## NdMk2o1o (May 31, 2017)

Johan45 said:


> Here's a guide I did for the CHVI http://www.overclockers.com/forums/...air-VI-P-State-modification-for-power-savings
> Not sure how your is set up but likely similar. The easiest way to do it at least on CHVI is to set your OC. Then go to P-States. On CHVI the Pstate 0 will now show your current multi. Set it to manual with that setting go back to main then set the multi in auto and voltage in offset if you need to add some


So am I right in thinking you can just set the pstates as in your guide and there is no need for you to also OC the CPU and adjust the multi and vcore etc if you setup the pstates to reflect your oc if that makes sense..


----------



## Johan45 (Jun 1, 2017)

You've got the gist of it. Changing the Pstate does alter your top multiplier. It's like telling the CPU it has a new top speed. The multi in main section needs to be on auto and I would disable boost. Then set an offset for voltage to accommodate the new speed.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 1, 2017)

Changing the board on my order from the MSI XPower Titanium to the Gigabyte Aorus Gaming 5, after doing some VRM section research and finding the XPower's VRM way too weak for a $300 board I was hoping to keep for a bit.


----------



## Johan45 (Jun 1, 2017)

Unless you're going cold the VRM is likely more than sufficient. These Ryzen are nothing like their FX predecessors. I did a review on the lower end MSI X370 SLI Plus and it ran at 4.0 just fine. The VRM barely warming up under load.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 1, 2017)

Johan45 said:


> Unless you're going cold the VRM is likely more than sufficient. These Ryzen are nothing like their FX predecessors. I did a review on the lower end MSI X370 SLI Plus and it ran at 4.0 just fine. The VRM barely warming up under load.



I know, it's more that it just bugged me they'd cheapen out on something like that on a nearly $300.00 board.  Voting with my wallet.


----------



## f22a4bandit (Jun 3, 2017)

Finally got my rig tuned in a bit. The RAM doesn't like going above 2933, but that's alright for now.


----------



## bogmali (Jun 3, 2017)

Build testing






Idle






Full load with all 16 cores firing using BOINC client


----------



## NdMk2o1o (Jun 3, 2017)

bogmali said:


> Build testing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WTH is that PNY GPU??


----------



## r9 (Jun 3, 2017)

NdMk2o1o said:


> WTH is that PNY GPU??


My bet goes on gt210 or 730gt .
So ugly it hurts my eyes.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 3, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> I know, it's more that it just bugged me they'd cheapen out on something like that on a nearly $300.00 board.  Voting with my wallet.



Asrock Taichi has very good vrm and its cheaper too. 

http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X370 Taichi/


----------



## bogmali (Jun 3, 2017)

NdMk2o1o said:


> WTH is that PNY GPU??



GT-220


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 4, 2017)

TheHunter said:


> Asrock Taichi has very good vrm and its cheaper too.
> 
> http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X370 Taichi/



Already got the Gigabyte and so far so good, but I haven't entered OC land yet (want a stable install first).  Still, information is power, so thanks.


----------



## Norton (Jun 8, 2017)

...............

Just started mine up- was able to set the ram at 2666 w/o issue. Will need to try again when I get a chance


----------



## Johan45 (Jun 16, 2017)

I intentionally went and bought the cheapest DDR4 3000 ( Team Delta Cl16-18 MFR) ram I could find locally, less than half the price of good Samsung just to see what I could do with it on my CHVI. Well long story short there was a bit of frustration, a lot of crashing/swearing. Never actually threw anything but sure felt like it a couple of times. There was no way I could make it boot with a higher divider than 2933. So I finally took a different approach like we did in the early days of AM4 and used some BCLK and a lot of patience. Finally got them up to 3200 and will keep them in my HTPC with the 1600x at 3.94 GHz on stock volts, P-state OC with LLC set at 2 and SOC manually to 1.0V on a crappy overpriced CM V8 I bought in a pinch years ago. I finally have a use for it. Keeps it just below the boiling point with IBT AVX @ 75% ram


----------



## Johan45 (Jun 19, 2017)

Tightened the memory up a bit and did my final testing. P95 Ver 29.1, custom with 13000MB ram allocation for ~ 11 hours. My HTPC is done, now just need to swap over to my SSD and get off this platter finally. I have to say not bad for a $110 CDN set of ram when this 3200 CL14 is $240 here  https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232205


----------



## HTC (Jun 20, 2017)

I can almost call myself in this club: CPU and RAM have arrived. Only waiting for the board now.


----------



## HTC (Jun 21, 2017)

Look @ what i just received:

 

Add this to:

  
Not 100% in the club just yet but, as soon as it's installed and running, then i'll be in all the way


----------



## infrared (Jun 21, 2017)

Hurry up @HTC! The suspense is killing us!!


----------



## HTC (Jun 21, 2017)

infrared said:


> Hurry up @HTC! The suspense is killing us!!



I'll start the build tomorrow morning, after a few things that i have to do first: will probably only be up and running by the day after tomorrow, assuming i don't run into any troubles.


----------



## HTC (Jun 23, 2017)

HTC said:


> I'll start the build tomorrow morning, after a few things that i have to do first: will probably only be up and running by the day after tomorrow, assuming i don't run into any troubles.



The good news is the PC didn't blow up when i pushed the power button ...

The bad news is ... i can't get the damn mouse to work in Windows 7 ...

Funny thing is, the mouse works just fine in the BIOS ...


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 23, 2017)

try different plug for the mouse; Windows7 lacks drivers for Summit Ridge USB controller so you may be screwed.  I keep a PS/2 keyboard for just such occasions.


----------



## bencrutz (Jun 23, 2017)

HTC said:


> The good news is the PC didn't blow up when i pushed the power button ...
> 
> The bad news is ... i can't get the damn mouse to work in Windows 7 ...
> 
> Funny thing is, the mouse works just fine in the BIOS ...


you probably need to slipstream the USB driver to the win 7 installer


----------



## HTC (Jun 23, 2017)

cadaveca said:


> try different plug for the mouse; Windows7 lacks drivers for Summit Ridge USB controller so you may be screwed.  I keep a PS/2 keyboard for just such occasions.



I remember reading about that, but i don't have such a mouse, yet: in the process of borrowing one from a co-worker.

Do have another potential problem, though: my keyboard is PS2 as well, and the Taichi only has 1 PS2 port.



bencrutz said:


> you probably need to slipstream the USB driver to the win 7 installer



A bit late for that now ...


----------



## Johan45 (Jun 23, 2017)

Hook the mouse up then and attach an ODD if you can. Just use the mobo disc for drivers and it'll be fine


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 23, 2017)

HTC said:


> Do have another potential problem, though: my keyboard is PS2 as well, and the Taichi only has 1 PS2 port.


The board supports using a y-cable for PS/2 IIRC.


----------



## r9 (Jun 23, 2017)

HTC said:


> Look @ what i just received:
> 
> View attachment 89296
> 
> ...


That is prrrrrrrrretty.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jun 23, 2017)

What cooler would you guys suggest ?


----------



## HTC (Jun 24, 2017)

cadaveca said:


> The board supports using a y-cable for PS/2 IIRC.



I used the keyboard-on-the-screen and managed to get a loaned PS/2 mouse but i just can`t get the USB controllers to get installed 

Re-installing Win 7 didn't help 

Often get crash errors when attempting to install the all-in-one driver, but i have manage to get it installed, i think: still no USB access


----------



## Caring1 (Jun 24, 2017)

HTC said:


> The good news is the PC didn't blow up when i pushed the power button ...
> 
> The bad news is ... i can't get the damn mouse to work in Windows 7 ...
> 
> Funny thing is, the mouse works just fine in the BIOS ...


If it works fine in the BIOS, it's using the Microsoft generic HID driver.
So, uninstall all drivers for the mouse except the Microsoft HID driver and use that.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 24, 2017)

Caring1 said:


> If it works fine in the BIOS, it's using the Microsoft generic HID driver.
> So, uninstall all drivers for the mouse except the Microsoft HID driver and use that.



BIOS doesn't use drivers at all.

The issue is Windows 7 not supporting the usb controller, as noted.


----------



## m&m's (Jun 24, 2017)

HTC said:


> I used the keyboard-on-the-screen and managed to get a loaned PS/2 mouse but i just can`t get the USB controllers to get installed
> 
> Re-installing Win 7 didn't help
> 
> Often get crash errors when attempting to install the all-in-one driver, but i have manage to get it installed, i think: still no USB access



Did you install the AMD chipset drivers?


----------



## HTC (Jun 24, 2017)

m&m's said:


> Did you install the AMD chipset drivers?



Aren't they a part of the all-in-1 driver package?

Regardless, just went and installed that, to make sure: still nope 

Funny thing is, i managed to get the front USB ports working in the previous Win 7 install but can't in this one.

EDIT



R-T-B said:


> BIOS doesn't use drivers at all.
> 
> *The issue is Windows 7 not supporting the usb controller, as noted.*



If installing the chipset drivers doesn't work, is there any other way? If not, then i'll have to go Linux after all.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jun 24, 2017)

Is it worth watercooling a 1600


----------



## EarthDog (Jun 24, 2017)

You may get 100mhz more over air...but that depends on the sample.


----------



## Norton (Jun 24, 2017)

@HTC you could just go with win10?

You should be able to enter the win7 key during the install or skip and activate it with the key following the install.

Installation on my setup (Asrock mb/1600X) took less than 20 minutes with no problems.


----------



## EarthDog (Jun 24, 2017)

HTC said:


> Aren't they a part of the all-in-1 driver package?
> 
> Regardless, just went and installed that, to make sure: still nope
> 
> ...


you have to slipstream in xhci drivers for modern platforms to get it to work on w7...


cadaveca said:


> try different plug for the mouse; Windows7 lacks drivers for Summit Ridge USB controller so you may be screwed.  I keep a PS/2 keyboard for just such occasions.


----------



## HTC (Jun 24, 2017)

Norton said:


> @HTC* you could just go with win10?*
> 
> You should be able to enter the win7 key during the install or skip and activate it with the key following the install.
> 
> Installation on my setup (Asrock mb/1600X) took less than 20 minutes with no problems.



Sorry: will not use Win 10.

If i can't get Win 7 to work, I'll use Linux.


----------



## puma99dk| (Jun 24, 2017)

@HTC afraid Microsoft want to know all about u?  Well if they wanted they could release all the same functions in a "mandatory" update for Windows 7 so u will feel the same about Windows 7 on that point of view as many do with Windows 10.

With my Windows 10 Pro I only use the Creator Update, normal updates r disabled, I am using a local account there is no way in hell I will create a microsoft account (just saying) and I run Spybot Anti-Beacon to block even more of MShit's things.

















Link: https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/


----------



## Caring1 (Jun 24, 2017)

puma99dk| said:


> @HTC afraid Microsoft want to know all about u?  Well if they wanted they could release all the same functions in a "mandatory" update for Windows 7 so u will feel the same about Windows 7 on that point of view as many do with Windows 10.


Microsoft released telemetry updates for W7 not long after the GWX updates were released.


----------



## HTC (Jun 24, 2017)

puma99dk| said:


> @HTC afraid Microsoft want to know all about u?  Well if they wanted they could release all the same functions in a "mandatory" update for Windows 7 so u will feel the same about Windows 7 on that point of view as many do with Windows 10.
> 
> With my Windows 10 Pro I only use the Creator Update, normal updates r disabled, I am using a local account there is no way in hell I will create a microsoft account (just saying) and I run Spybot Anti-Beacon to block even more of MShit's things.
> 
> ...



That's the 1st program i installed after finishing OS installation: even before putting the board's CD in the drive.

Will have to figure out how to slipstream in xhci drivers for modern platforms and try re-installing Win 7 again.


----------



## puma99dk| (Jun 24, 2017)

HTC said:


> That's the 1st program i installed after finishing OS installation: even before putting the board's CD in the drive.
> 
> Will have to figure out how to slipstream in xhci drivers for modern platforms and try re-installing Win 7 again.



That u can do with NTLite, I been slipstreaming som Windows XP's at work specifically to be used on some pc's in the industrial.

Link: https://www.ntlite.com/
U can add a lot more than just drivers if u want.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 24, 2017)

HTC said:


> Will have to figure out how to slipstream in xhci drivers for modern platforms and try re-installing Win 7 again.




Some boards come with a tool to do so (Such as MSI Smart Tool), but you do need to have an active OS to do the slipstream work...


----------



## Johan45 (Jun 24, 2017)

HTC said:


> That's the 1st program i installed after finishing OS installation: even before putting the board's CD in the drive.
> 
> Will have to figure out how to slipstream in xhci drivers for modern platforms and try re-installing Win 7 again.


I don't know which board you're usinf but if it has a PS2 you should be golden. I started the install and used the mouse to copy paste the computer name. The once in windows popped the mobo disc in. Installed all the chip/usb drivers and it was golden on an MSI board
EDIT: I have a win7 slipstream guide here  http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/781091-AMD-Ryzen-Win7-ISO-Guide


----------



## TommyT (Jun 24, 2017)

then i pluged my system, i used ps2 mouse only to press instell on all my b350 ryzen drivers


----------



## kruk (Jun 25, 2017)

I put my eye on the Ryzen 5 1400, B350 boards and 2x4 GB RAM. In a moment of madness, I have even started thinking about buying a 1600 with FlareX 3200 DDR4 RAM. After doing some calculations and reading a lot of reviews, I realized that all this power would mostly be wasted for my use case, so I decided to do some changes.

I have picked the *Ryzen 5 1500X*, because it was a no brainer vs the 1400: better fan, better clocks, more cache, minor price bump. I have picked the *Gigabyte B350M gaming 3* board, mostly because it had dual BIOS. I went for 2x8GB of cheapest 2667 MHz RAM, but made a rookie mistake by not checking the MoBo QVL and not checking if it's single rank (yikes!). In summary, I have sacrificed a few percents of performance, but this build was *a lot cheaper*.

The hardware installation process went smooth (after the RAM reset to 2133 MHz) and I decided to just plug in my HDD and test it. As expected, Debian Stretch with 4.9.30 kernel ran flawlessly. Windows 7 booted and would probably work after cleanup (I had USB3 drivers installed from previous build), but I decided to reinstall it to have a clean system.

I have used a 1$ USB to PS2 converter and DVD drive to install Windows 7, but after the first installation reboot something broke and it refused to start. I have quickly found the source of the problem: the board came with an ancient F3 BIOS from march. After the BIOS update, I reinstalled Win7. This time everything worked. I have turned on mouse emulation and put in the DVD with Motherboard drivers to finally get the USB ports working. *The DVD was a mess*: the installer UI refused to work with keyboard navigation and the links to installers were broken. I browsed the DVD to manually install the provided USB drivers one by one, but nothing happened. I have thus decided to download the software from Gigabyte's website and this time everything worked.

After the installation of drivers, I have activated Windows and to my surprise it worked automatically (remember, I have swapped the whole system). I turned on automatic updates and it downloaded and installed over a GB of them. After reboot it started nagging with the "unsupported hardware" screen, therefore I just turned them off.

Now was the time to do some tweaks. *RAM XMP profile was not working*, so I decided to manually set the speed to 2400 MHz - the currently fastest officially supported speed for dual rank RAM. It didn't work, so I decided to manually enter the numbers (including the 2T command rate). *It was a success!* I didn't go for 2667 MHz yet, because I really don't need it. The auto overclock pushes the clocks to 3.9 GHz on low loads and with IPC improvements that's already much faster than my i3 was. The *idle total system power consumption* is around *40 watts* which remains unchanged from my previous build. In the torture tests the new build consumes more, but the difference is only 25 Watts. Debian power consumption is slightly higher (5 watts more), but I didn't install the newest kernel yet.


----------



## puma99dk| (Jun 25, 2017)

@kruk are u using the newest bios for ur Gigabyte board?

If not do a backup of ur current bios and flash F7 they have done some work up to F7 from their first release F1 and also properly more than what they write bcs that's not uncommon.


----------



## -1nf1n1ty- (Jun 26, 2017)

Hello everyone, my CPU seems to be running quite hot and I am not sure what to do or what it could be caused from. Ryzen master jumps from 40 or so to about 50 (idle) on a Cryorig H7 using the paste it came with. Could it be my case, S340? or is something else playing a factor? Could it be my R9 390, since it gets hot? Incase anyone is wondering I have 3 noctua fans one for exhaust one top and 2 pulling air in from the front (they are redux noctua) and I have 2 Corsair SP quiet edition fans on the CPU cooler and a Cryorig fan on the back for exhaust. Room is fairly cool, carpeted and even got a new fan! but still when I run Ryzen Master temps go up, when I run HWinfo64 temps are good went as low as 36c one time. No i did NOT OC.

EDIT: Did some extra testing to find out what it could be, I even got the bios working and everything with the new release from gigabyte. And closed a bunch of programs at launch. max on a cpuz stress test I am hitting 67.4 and nothing higher with a web browser opened more specifically vivaldi. I have also loaded up csgo in the fps benchmark app, and temps never exceeded 67.5, I went as low as 35.3c at idle. Does Ryzen not like it when you open up windows with other programs? I didn't know that was a thing. Did I just fix my own problem?

EDIT2: Started to render something using mental Ray i reached 75.0c it doesnt get any higher (this is with vivaldi opened)


----------



## L|NK|N (Jun 26, 2017)

Anyone have suggestions for an air cooler with out of the box AM4/RYZEN compatibility?


----------



## bencrutz (Jun 26, 2017)

-1nf1n1ty- said:


> Hello everyone, my CPU seems to be running quite hot and I am not sure what to do or what it could be caused from. Ryzen master jumps from 40 or so to about 50 (idle) on a Cryorig H7 using the paste it came with. Could it be my case, S340? or is something else playing a factor? Could it be my R9 390, since it gets hot? Incase anyone is wondering I have 3 noctua fans one for exhaust one top and 2 pulling air in from the front (they are redux noctua) and I have 2 Corsair SP quiet edition fans on the CPU cooler and a Cryorig fan on the back for exhaust. Room is fairly cool, carpeted and even got a new fan! but still when I run Ryzen Master temps go up, when I run HWinfo64 temps are good went as low as 36c one time. No i did NOT OC.
> 
> EDIT: Did some extra testing to find out what it could be, I even got the bios working and everything with the new release from gigabyte. And closed a bunch of programs at launch. max on a cpuz stress test I am hitting 67.4 and nothing higher with a web browser opened more specifically vivaldi. I have also loaded up csgo in the fps benchmark app, and temps never exceeded 67.5, I went as low as 35.3c at idle. Does Ryzen not like it when you open up windows with other programs? I didn't know that was a thing. Did I just fix my own problem?
> 
> EDIT2: Started to render something using mental Ray i reached 75.0c it doesnt get any higher (this is with vivaldi opened)



yeah, ryzen master put a little load on cpu and somehow raises the temps quickly even when idle, hwinfo reports pretty much the same, albeit a bit different in the resolution i.e. slower to update the temp compared to ryzen master. this weird thing happens only when i open up ryzen master though, temps get back to normal as soon as i close it.
i'm on ryzen master ver. 1.0.1.0293 & hwinfo ver. 5.52-3161


----------



## kruk (Jun 26, 2017)

puma99dk| said:


> @kruk are u using the newest bios for ur Gigabyte board?
> 
> If not do a backup of ur current bios and flash F7 they have done some work up to F7 from their first release F1 and also properly more than what they write bcs that's not uncommon.



I'm using the latest BIOS, F5 for the mATX version. I will go hunting 2667 MHz as soon as I get some time to bench the changes. I'm aware that some timing adjustments might be needed to reach that speed and I don't want to do them without measuring their impact. I'm thinking about quick tests containing: 3D Mark 2006 or Vantage, Metro 2033, 7-zip, Handbrake and Cinebench.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 26, 2017)

LiNKiN said:


> Anyone have suggestions for an air cooler with out of the box AM4/RYZEN compatibility?


Unfortunately, no. Artic has a couple, but I bought ta cooler that said AM4 compatible the other day, and the mounting hardware for AM4 was not in the box, and I had to mail-order it, and pay for the postage.


----------



## the54thvoid (Jun 26, 2017)

My system has started having occasional start up quirks.  Since i switched to DOCP Standard settings for my latency optimised 3200Mhz setting, my mobo occasional misfires.  3 equal beeps then restarts.  Found out that on the Asus CH6 this is the memory system being 'relearned'.  Very strange indeed.  On the old 1002 bios but apart from that quirk (because it always boots afterwards) I'm quite happy and not sure i should update the BIOS further.  Don't want my 3.85Ghz OC being messed with.


----------



## Johan45 (Jun 26, 2017)

-1nf1n1ty- said:


> Hello everyone, my CPU seems to be running quite hot and I am not sure what to do or what it could be caused from. Ryzen master jumps from 40 or so to about 50 (idle) on a Cryorig H7 using the paste it came with. Could it be my case, S340? or is something else playing a factor? Could it be my R9 390, since it gets hot? Incase anyone is wondering I have 3 noctua fans one for exhaust one top and 2 pulling air in from the front (they are redux noctua) and I have 2 Corsair SP quiet edition fans on the CPU cooler and a Cryorig fan on the back for exhaust. Room is fairly cool, carpeted and even got a new fan! but still when I run Ryzen Master temps go up, when I run HWinfo64 temps are good went as low as 36c one time. No i did NOT OC.
> 
> EDIT: Did some extra testing to find out what it could be, I even got the bios working and everything with the new release from gigabyte. And closed a bunch of programs at launch. max on a cpuz stress test I am hitting 67.4 and nothing higher with a web browser opened more specifically vivaldi. I have also loaded up csgo in the fps benchmark app, and temps never exceeded 67.5, I went as low as 35.3c at idle. Does Ryzen not like it when you open up windows with other programs? I didn't know that was a thing. Did I just fix my own problem?
> 
> EDIT2: Started to render something using mental Ray i reached 75.0c it doesnt get any higher (this is with vivaldi opened)


Yes the Ryzen "X" chips seem hot. They have a 20° offset appled so the "actual" temp is lower. You're good up to 95°C so you still have lots of room yet.




the54thvoid said:


> My system has started having occasional start up quirks.  Since i switched to DOCP Standard settings for my latency optimised 3200Mhz setting, my mobo occasional misfires.  3 equal beeps then restarts.  Found out that on the Asus CH6 this is the memory system being 'relearned'.  Very strange indeed.  On the old 1002 bios but apart from that quirk (because it always boots afterwards) I'm quite happy and not sure i should update the BIOS further.  Don't want my 3.85Ghz OC being messed with.



Been on 1401 for a while and it works fine for me. There's a 1403 at present which is about the same with a few bug fixes. I haven't tried it as I just noticed it today. These new BIOS open up a lot of options for ram and so far stable. You have nothing to fear


----------



## -1nf1n1ty- (Jun 27, 2017)

Little update: I switched cases from my NZXT S340 to my old HAF932. Biggest difference, I saw my temps drop to the lowest of 31.8c thank you to those that helped. I dont know what I switched to the s340 in the first place


----------



## _JP_ (Jun 27, 2017)

Noctua NH AM4 ordered


----------



## Norton (Jun 27, 2017)

LiNKiN said:


> Anyone have suggestions for an air cooler with out of the box AM4/RYZEN compatibility?


Noctua has a few that are ready to go with AM4 and they will send you a kit free of charge for older coolers (invoice or picture proof required). I was able to get kits for a U14S and a D14- took just over a week to get them.


----------



## NdMk2o1o (Jun 30, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> My system has started having occasional start up quirks.  Since i switched to DOCP Standard settings for my latency optimised 3200Mhz setting, my mobo occasional misfires.  3 equal beeps then restarts.  Found out that on the Asus CH6 this is the memory system being 'relearned'.  Very strange indeed.  On the old 1002 bios but apart from that quirk (because it always boots afterwards) I'm quite happy and not sure i should update the BIOS further.  Don't want my 3.85Ghz OC being messed with.



I have a similar quirk, I have 2 mixed sticks (dual rank!) both rated at 2800 with different timings (1x8GB Corsair Dominator and 1x8GB Kingston Hyper-X) I thought I would be lucky to hit 2400 let alone their rated speed of 2800 but after the agesa 1.0.0.6 BIOS update I can run both at 2800 with a bit of tweaking although the timings were pretty crap at something like 18.18.18 CAS1, managed to get them down manually to 16.16.18 but I also have a similar "cold start" bug that requires me to reset and it boots just fine, no BSOD's or crashes in Windows, just now and then it won't start from cold... I think it's also the memory learning feature but I might tinker some more and see if I can get the timings a bit tighter without having this cold startup bug that is fine with a restart, am I happy still..... mismated RAM sticks, dual rank, running at 2800.... hell yea


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jul 1, 2017)

I'm getting there guys


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jul 1, 2017)

RAM came in

I'm hoping this series plays nice with Ryzen


----------



## _JP_ (Jul 2, 2017)

Just a few parts missing...


----------



## xorbe (Jul 3, 2017)

No issues with Asus Prime B350M + 1.0.0.6 but I'm just running stock DDR4-2400.  It's been problem free so far.


----------



## _JP_ (Jul 3, 2017)

Almost done 

I haven't build it, but do you guys want the BOM?


----------



## Johan45 (Jul 4, 2017)

I think you need more building


----------



## Chicken Patty (Jul 4, 2017)

Fellow Ryzen owners, can you check this thread out and see if you all can lend a hand?  Thank you!

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/f4-2400c15d-16gfx-working-on-crosshair-vi.234860/


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jul 4, 2017)

I think i shot myself in the foot. I bought some G.Skill RipJaws V RAM (Hynix) and my board doesn't show it on the support list and I've been reading that Hynix doesn't play welk with Ryzen at all


----------



## _JP_ (Jul 4, 2017)

Johan45 said:


> I think you need more building


 Right you are, later this week (still waiting for the Win10 Key, but testing doesn't need it)


Chicken Patty said:


> Fellow Ryzen owners, can you check this thread out and see if you all can lend a hand?  Thank you!
> 
> https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/f4-2400c15d-16gfx-working-on-crosshair-vi.234860/


Looks like it's solved, still an annoying situation to be in. Both boards have great reviews


----------



## Sempron Guy (Jul 4, 2017)

Durvelle27 said:


> I think i shot myself in the foot. I bought some G.Skill RipJaws V RAM (Hynix) and my board doesn't show it on the support list and I've been reading that Hynix doesn't play welk with Ryzen at all



was able to run a cheapo hynix based kit at 3066mhz c16


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jul 4, 2017)

Sempron Guy said:


> was able to run a cheapo hynix based kit at 3066mhz c16


Was it hard or quirky 

Im fairly good with overclocking and have been for awhile


----------



## Sempron Guy (Jul 4, 2017)

Durvelle27 said:


> Was it hard or quirky
> 
> Im fairly good with overclocking and have been for awhile



I wouldn't say easy, but I had more trouble with the board itself than ocing the ram. Once I was able to run it at 3200mhz c16, passed HCI test @2000% as far as I remember, then suddenly it will not work at the next boot.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jul 4, 2017)

Sempron Guy said:


> I wouldn't say easy, but I had more trouble with the board itself than ocing the ram. Once I was able to run it at 3200mhz c16, passed HCI test @2000% as far as I remember, then suddenly it will not work at the next boot.


What board ?

I have a MSI B350M Gaming Pro


----------



## Chicken Patty (Jul 4, 2017)

_JP_ said:


> Right you are, later this week (still waiting for the Win10 Key, but testing doesn't need it)
> 
> Looks like it's solved, still an annoying situation to be in. Both boards have great reviews


Indeed, just some terrible luck


----------



## Sempron Guy (Jul 4, 2017)

Durvelle27 said:


> What board ?
> 
> I have a MSI B350M Gaming Pro



Asrock X370 Taichi


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jul 4, 2017)

Sempron Guy said:


> Asrock X370 Taichi


Welp i hope i can have some good luck and get some decent clocks


----------



## Norton (Jul 4, 2017)

Here's an interesting tidbit...

The new Dell Inspiron 5675 has an X370 mATX motherboard (first one I've seen)

Not much to look at but it is a sign that more mATX boards may be coming:






Hard to find specs/reviews on the PC so I found the above pic in their service manual

http://www.dell.com/support/manuals...493006-A1BD-460E-A950-203FD4B4E775&lang=en-us


----------



## psyko12 (Jul 6, 2017)

Just chiming in, my Ryzen build shat itself. 

It was happily running for a month and a half now. Haven't touched settings and finally settled with a better oc/volt/temperature ratio.
And last Sunday when I got home from work the board or maybe Procs IMC bit the dust. The board was stuck on a boot loop with error code 54 (memory initialization) and the debug led is lit up for either cpu and then changing into ram.

It was not actually the ram, I had ran over to a mates place to test it and it worked. So it's either the board itself or the cpu. Either primary or back up bios, it just stays on that loop.
Already did the troubleshooting that most of you would do. Clearing CMOS, un-plugging from psu/wall, removing cmos battery, shorting out cmos clear jumpers, no go. Out of the blue the board or proc just decided to do that. I wasn't even running an extreme oc.

3.8ghz @ 1.35vcore and for my ram to get 3200mhz it was a combo of 1.4voltage for ram and 0.99 - 1.00 vsoc.

Now I'm posting this with my older system with me trusty 8350. But boy o boy I sure do miss the speed. Gigabyte arranged rma for me so I should be fine in a couple of weeks or month LOL.

Just sharing and wanted to say Hi guys!


----------



## infrared (Jul 6, 2017)

Hard luck psyko  I'd heard the first batches of gigabyte boards were a bit prone to randomly dying (amazon user reviews), but this is one of the first I've seen on this forum.
Hopefully you get a replacement quickly and the next one lasts!


----------



## psyko12 (Jul 6, 2017)

infrared said:


> Hard luck psyko  I'd heard the first batches of gigabyte boards were a bit prone to randomly dying (amazon user reviews), but this is one of the first I've seen on this forum.
> Hopefully you get a replacement quickly and the next one lasts!



Yeah RIP out of the blue!! It was perfectly running fine no quirks and no other problems then it decided to shat itself! Guess one of the cons of being an early adopter, prolly the one I got is part of them 1st batches. Atleast Giga responded to RMA 
And I'm still glad that my old FX 8350 is still around to back me up, even though I shoved him on a box inside the closet 

Will let you know if I get a bad board + chip or if it's just the board itself :cheers:


----------



## HTC (Jul 10, 2017)

psyko12 said:


> Just chiming in, my Ryzen build shat itself.
> 
> It was happily running for a month and a half now. Haven't touched settings and finally settled with a better oc/volt/temperature ratio.
> And last Sunday when I got home from work the board or maybe Procs IMC bit the dust. The board was stuck on a boot loop with error code 54 (memory initialization) and the debug led is lit up for either cpu and then changing into ram.
> ...



DAMN dude: such bad luck 

Hope the RMA goes smoothly!

On a brighter note, i fixed my USB issues using Win 7 ... by installing Ubuntu and removing Win 7 ... permanently ...

On a not so brighter note, i'm a complete noob when it comes to linux so there's a "learning curve" i'll be going through and only after that's accomplished will i get my attention diverted to tinkering with BIOS settings regarding both memory and CPU speeds.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 10, 2017)

I've concluded that my 1800X Ryzen is a turd.

I mean it works ok, but it can't OC worth a damn.  Not even to the XFR clocks.

4.0Ghz is all I can get out of it, and that takes a good 1.45v.  Thank goodness for my huge Noctua air cooler and many blower fans.

It's IMC also won't stay stable above DDR4-3333.

I'm happy with these clocks, but wish I could lower voltages to get them.  Ah well.


----------



## Nuckles56 (Jul 10, 2017)

@R-T-B I guess you lost the silicon lottery sadly, but hey 32GB of RAM at 3333MHz isn't anything I'd be complaining about


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 10, 2017)

Nuckles56 said:


> @R-T-B I guess you lost the silicon lottery sadly, but hey 32GB of RAM at 3333MHz isn't anything I'd be complaining about



Nah, that part I'm perfectly happy with, but I mean it is single sided Samsung B-Die modules.

I still love the Ryzen just the Silicon Lottery is what it is. My 7700k preceeding this wasn't too hot in clocks either (was in thermals though!).


----------



## Chicken Patty (Jul 10, 2017)

My first Ryzen 1700 I lost that lottery.  Didn't overclock very well.  It seems this chip I have now which was the replacement after my RMA overclocks a lot better.  3.7GHz @ 1.329v I am totally happy with for now.  I'll push it a bit more when I don't feel so lazy


----------



## Nuckles56 (Jul 10, 2017)

I guess as long as you're happy with it then there is no reason to complain.


----------



## Chicken Patty (Jul 10, 2017)

Nuckles56 said:


> I guess as long as you're happy with it then there is no reason to complain.


Not sure if that was for me or R-T-B.  But you're right, as long as you're happy that's the most important part.  What I do need to get is better RAM.  I only have DDR4 2400 right now so, I'd like to get some 3000+ MHz RAM.  Gotta do my research on that.


----------



## xorbe (Jul 10, 2017)

Don't feel bad, I've had a ton of hardware (cpu/gpu), and only really hit the silicon lottery once with a 2500k that did 5.2 while gaming.  Plenty that weren't worth the trouble to oc.  Neither my current 4790k or 1500X oc worth mentioning.  And I've had a terrible run on nv gpus.  Even my "pre-tested" Celeron 300A wouldn't do the vaunted 450 dance, I'm still pissed about that, lol.


----------



## Nuckles56 (Jul 10, 2017)

Chicken Patty said:


> Not sure if that was for me or R-T-B.  But you're right, as long as you're happy that's the most important part.  What I do need to get is better RAM.  I only have DDR4 2400 right now so, I'd like to get some 3000+ MHz RAM.  Gotta do my research on that.


It was for both as it was equally relevant in both cases


----------



## phanbuey (Jul 10, 2017)

psyko12 said:


> Just chiming in, my Ryzen build shat itself.
> 
> It was happily running for a month and a half now. Haven't touched settings and finally settled with a better oc/volt/temperature ratio.
> And last Sunday when I got home from work the board or maybe Procs IMC bit the dust. The board was stuck on a boot loop with error code 54 (memory initialization) and the debug led is lit up for either cpu and then changing into ram.
> ...



my gigabyte randomly died too but it was within the return window for the store...  Same way as yours...  Would only boot with one stick in one bootup.   I was thinking one of the dimm slots just gave out.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 10, 2017)

phanbuey said:


> my gigabyte randomly died too but it was within the return window for the store...  Same way as yours...  Would only boot with one stick in one bootup.   I was thinking one of the dimm slots just gave out.



Now I am looking at my GIGABYTE board funny...  lol.


----------



## kruk (Jul 10, 2017)

I have managed to push my dual rank 15-15-15-35 2T kit to it's rated speed (2667 MHz) in a really unexpected way.

When inspecting the SPD profiles I have noticed that this RAM can do 2133 MHz at 14-14-14-34-48. So I have set these timings and it worked: not only at 2133 MHz, *but also at 2667 MHz*. It booted and ran at 1.2V, but I had to increase memory voltage to 1.35V to avoid memtest errors. As a bonus, 1T also works at these timings and this speed. It is really unexpected, because the RAM previously didn't want to work at looser timings CAS15 no matter what memory or SOC voltage was ... It surely looks like Ryzen really likes CL divisible by two ...

The performance increase looks very good in synthetic tests , but the real world performance increase for the tested apps (3D Marks, Cinebench) is like 1%. Still, can't complain, a speedup is a speedup and it was easier to achieve than I ever thought ...


----------



## Chicken Patty (Jul 10, 2017)

xorbe said:


> Don't feel bad, I've had a ton of hardware (cpu/gpu), and only really hit the silicon lottery once with a 2500k that did 5.2 while gaming.  Plenty that weren't worth the trouble to oc.  Neither my current 4790k or 1500X oc worth mentioning.  And I've had a terrible run on nv gpus.  Even my "pre-tested" Celeron 300A wouldn't do the vaunted 450 dance, I'm still pissed about that, lol.


I can say I've been pretty lucky actually.  I had a Phenom II CPU that till today's date is like the 6th highest one clocked on air on HWBOT.ORG.  I've had a couple good chips.  Seems like this Ryzen chip is not bad either.


----------



## psyko12 (Jul 13, 2017)

HTC said:


> DAMN dude: such bad luck
> 
> Hope the RMA goes smoothly!





phanbuey said:


> my gigabyte randomly died too but it was within the return window for the store...  Same way as yours...  Would only boot with one stick in one bootup.   I was thinking one of the dimm slots just gave out.



They found out it was the board who suddenly wanted to crap out on me. I've left my RAM and Proc with them and the board is in the *process of being replaced**, they said hopefully by Saturday I'll be able  to get them back. 

I'm missing my multi-tasking performance alread


----------



## psyko12 (Jul 15, 2017)

Just got my stuff back. They replaced both processor and mobo. Hopefully this new chip will be better binned for voltages and oc.  Unfortunately will not be able to play with it atm. Weekend warrior problems. Haha cheers.


----------



## _JP_ (Jul 17, 2017)

It looks awesome, except so far it doesn't POST


----------



## Sempron Guy (Jul 17, 2017)

psyko12 said:


> Just got my stuff back. They replaced both processor and mobo. Hopefully this new chip will be better binned for voltages and oc.  Unfortunately will not be able to play with it atm. Weekend warrior problems. Haha cheers.
> View attachment 90182



 cheers for the successful RMA! how's it doing so far? sony vegas didn't crash?


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 17, 2017)

_JP_ said:


> It looks awesome, except so far it doesn't POST



That is kinda a downer, isn't it?


----------



## _JP_ (Jul 17, 2017)

I wasn't feeling like a happy camper last night, that's for sure 
That old feeling: "Good effort kid, now I wouldn't say people around you are disappointed, but better luck next time"
But hey, I'm rolling up my sleeves and I'm going to make it work, it's my job damn it!


----------



## Athlon2K15 (Jul 18, 2017)

Pulled the Z270 out of the DG86 and was finally able to get the Ryzen build together. CH6 1800x TridentZ 3600s, still working with a lame RX460 since the GPU market isn't very friendly right now.


----------



## psyko12 (Jul 18, 2017)

Sempron Guy said:


> cheers for the successful RMA! how's it doing so far? sony vegas didn't crash?



So far so good, manage to hit 3.8ghz at lower voltages and the IMC is much more better than the 1st one. Getting XMP rated speeds with lower ram voltages atm 1.35v and 1.1vsoc before it had to be 1.45v and 1.2vsoc to hit 3200mhz!


----------



## phanbuey (Jul 18, 2017)

psyko12 said:


> So far so good, manage to hit 3.8ghz at lower voltages and the IMC is much more better than the 1st one. Getting XMP rated speeds with lower ram voltages atm 1.35v and 1.1vsoc before it had to be 1.45v and 1.2vsoc to hit 3200mhz!



Nice!


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 18, 2017)

Athlon2K15 said:


> Pulled the Z270 out of the DG86 and was finally able to get the Ryzen build together. CH6 1800x TridentZ 3600s, still working with a lame RX460 since the GPU market isn't very friendly right now.



10Gbps network card?


----------



## Athlon2K15 (Jul 18, 2017)

TheLostSwede said:


> 10Gbps network card?



Yeah top card is AC3100 bottom is 10Gbe to the home network.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 18, 2017)

Athlon2K15 said:


> Yeah top card is AC3100 bottom is 10Gbe to the home network.



That Asus card is a "bargain" for what it is, but where does one pick up an affordable 10Gbps switch to go with it?


----------



## _JP_ (Jul 18, 2017)

Almost done


----------



## Athlon2K15 (Jul 19, 2017)

TheLostSwede said:


> That Asus card is a "bargain" for what it is, but where does one pick up an affordable 10Gbps switch to go with it?


 i use a Netgear XS708T for my Switch


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 19, 2017)

Athlon2K15 said:


> Netgear XS708T



A tad outside of my budget, especially with local prices on Netgear hardware.


----------



## Norton (Jul 25, 2017)

Finally a SFF/itx board for Ryzen:






http://www.asrock.com/MB/AMD/Fatal1ty X370 Gaming-ITXac/index.asp


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jul 25, 2017)

Norton said:


> Finally a SFF/itx board for Ryzen:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Smaller than my work boots


----------



## the54thvoid (Aug 3, 2017)

Whoops.

Was checking updates on the Asus auto update checker and thought the utility was called 'EZ Update'.  Saw it was an older version (of said utility) so clicked update.  Got a BIOS update message and thought, must just be waht it says...

Yup, Windows BIOS flash/update.

So, now on 1403 BIOS and lost all prior overclocked settings.  Will start off on DOCP Standard (which was unstable previously, before the AGESA updates).  If memory is stable and boots fine for few days, will start overclocking again.

Such a noob. 

EDIT: DOCP is not stable.  POS Ryzen board.
Think I'll sell it soon and go back to Intel.


----------



## Jhelms (Aug 4, 2017)

My little slice of ryzen


----------



## MIRTAZAPINE (Aug 4, 2017)

My current RYZEN now. All assembled now for testing. Yes I know the d15s covered half the board, so far I like how it turns out.

Have been testing my Ryzen 1700 with the msi B350 gaming pro, I am using my old ssd from my previous build without any reinstalling. Surprised it booted up and it automatically find the drivers. I prefer a clean install but I don't have a win 10 iso and also I the windows 10 I am now on is the free upgrade from windows 8.

Things seems to work find but I am having a huge problem with the mouse cursor lagging. Tried removing the gpu driver and realtek drivers but still the same things. It works fine then the mouse is jerky again. I unplug my ssd and put it into the the intel pentium and no jerky mouse. Not sure what the problem is. It is pretty annoying and my pc is not that usable.

Other than that for the hardware side of things I updated to the latest bios but I still can't go to my ram speed of  3466mhz even with lax timing, I guess this is the limitation of the board. I can go to 3200mhz around c16 timings but I am not sure of its stability have seems to not be stable. I settled for 3066mhz at around c14 timings. For 32GB is good enough. I don't expect this ram density to clock high for amd boards. I am pleasantly surprised for this.

The highest clock I can get out of my ryzen 1700 is 3.7Ghz at a not so impressive 1.3V. I can't seem to get to 3.8GHz when I typed it in the bios as I boot into windows cpuz would just show 1.5GHz strangely. It did managed to boot to 3.8Ghz once  do a short cpuz test but after reboot it is stuck as 1.5GHz. Not sure if this is the limitation of this board. I think it probably  have to put near 1.4v just to stabilise at 3.8GHz.  My chip seems to hit a wall after 3.6GHz at only required 1.21V then need a massive increase at 3.7GHz.

My first Amd build is not as fuss free as my Intel pentium build.  It seems like intel just feels more seamless to me even with the initial bioses for my H81 or previous z97. I am happy enough of the upgrade, I guess it need some tweaking.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Aug 4, 2017)

MIRTAZAPINE said:


> My current RYZEN now. All assembled now for testing. Yes I know the d15s covered half the board, so far I like how it turns out.
> 
> Have been testing my Ryzen 1700 with the msi B350 gaming pro, I am using my old ssd from my previous build without any reinstalling. Surprised it booted up and it automatically find the drivers. I prefer a clean install but I don't have a win 10 iso and also I the windows 10 I am now on is the free upgrade from windows 8.
> 
> ...


Do you like the board

I have the same one


----------



## MIRTAZAPINE (Aug 4, 2017)

Durvelle27 said:


> Do you like the board
> 
> I have the same one



I so far like the size of the board and it being simple. Got this board mostly because of the price being the lowest, the size and I just want something simple.  This board almost in my itx case. Just that it is 1 slot to high. It would be perfect if it 3 slots high only.

What is your cpu clocks for this board?


----------



## Durvelle27 (Aug 4, 2017)

MIRTAZAPINE said:


> I so far like the size of the board and it being simple. Got this board mostly because of the price being the lowest, the size and I just want something simple.  This board almost in my itx case. Just that it is 1 slot to high. It would be perfect if it 3 slots high only.
> 
> What is your cpu clocks for this board?


I haven't finished my rig as I haven't had time

So not sure how high my 1700 can go


----------



## puma99dk| (Aug 4, 2017)

psyko12 said:


> Just got my stuff back. They replaced both processor and mobo. Hopefully this new chip will be better binned for voltages and oc.  Unfortunately will not be able to play with it atm. Weekend warrior problems. Haha cheers.
> View attachment 90182



Awesome bundle but I still feel the lack of features on the Ryzen boards that's r on the Intel boards like on-board Creative Core3D.

I got the Gigabyte Aorus Z270 Gaming 7 with Creative Core3D the Ryzen X370 Gaming K7 r using the Realtek ALC1220 chip with SoundBlaster X-Fi MB5 it just isn't the same


----------



## the54thvoid (Aug 5, 2017)

Update on my new BIOS.

Running 109.2 BCLK as the standard DOCP was flaky. Memory seems stable now at rated SPD/case of 3200/14.
Currently on Prime all cores at 3.8Ghz (35x). temps stable at 70 degrees after half hour. Don't want to press luck but it might be more stable now.
Thinking of maybe trying to lower latency (rather than hghr frequency on mem or core) but have no idea what I'd be doing....


----------



## bencrutz (Aug 7, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> Whoops.
> 
> Was checking updates on the Asus auto update checker and thought the utility was called 'EZ Update'.  Saw it was an older version (of said utility) so clicked update.  Got a BIOS update message and thought, must just be waht it says...
> 
> ...




yeah, not a great board TBH
had a better experience on biostars


----------



## psyko12 (Aug 26, 2017)

FWIW , ladies and gents  who have the giga x370 gaming k7 rev 1.0 they've put up bios F5 for release.


Fix P2-state hanged issue while changing CPU Vcore of Ryzen 3
Improve DDR compatibility
http://www.gigabyte.us/Motherboard/GA-AX370-Gaming-K7-rev-10#support-dl

Other giga am4 boards may have also some new updates.
As far as I've read, they included more dividers that was added for agesa 1006*a *and added an option for linux users to disable opcache function.


----------



## _JP_ (Aug 27, 2017)

Started experimenting with Beam.NG to see how far I could tax the CPU, but ended-up crashing the game by hitting max vRAM first


----------



## psyko12 (Aug 31, 2017)

Just wanted to share something regarding gigabytes x370 K7 BIOS or maybe other board BIOS that they released on 2017/08/18.

K7 owner here and reporting some findings about the mysterious F5 bios that came out on the official site (it didn't go thru the BETA bios thread), it was just posted as a "stable" release.

A WARNING:
Having flashed the bios some users noticed it to set the cpu vcore to a very high voltage 1.55v instead of the default 1.2ish~ v. Having applied optimized settings saved and restarted it went back to normal.

Findings:  Most or some users got the same experience.

More info, it is something to do with auto and voltage offsetting that this bug occurs, but if you set it to use a manual voltage and use LLC to compensate then you are golden.
At the moment have read and found out some people getting their processors fried due to this bug. We haven't heard yet from gigabyte in their forums regarding this one.

Minus that very very bad bug, overall the bios is very good. It has unlocked more dividers/mhz for the memory  (3066, etc.).

+Noticed with the same oc settings that I use, the VRMs are also way cooler than previous set of bioses also my machine idle temps are way lower (atm running sweet spot 3.8ghz on all cores)
+XMP on some kits even on other dies that the godly b-dies can hit XMP with just turning on the setting without further tweaks. (I had to raise ram voltages to make it stable tho 1.4v)
+The notorious soft brick issue (for me maybe) does not happen (haven't noticed it too on F4). Maybe I just go lucky.

P.S.

I was not aware of the vcore bug as I always set my voltages manually, it was after a few hours of the bios being released that I found some user feedbacks regarding that new bios on the 18th made cpu vcore very high (some other flavor of the am4 gigabyte boards).

As of date I saw 2 or 3 persons on the gigabyte forum reporting of fried processors.

Just leaving it here for brothers and sisters who use a gigabyte board.
Sharing is caring 

Cheers!


----------



## qubit (Sep 2, 2017)

psyko12 said:


> Just wanted to share something regarding gigabytes x370 K7 BIOS or maybe other board BIOS that they released on 2017/08/18.
> 
> <REST OF POST>



Dude, you made the news. 

http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-cpu-gigabyte-x370-damage-burning-bios-update


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 2, 2017)

qubit said:


> Dude, you made the news.
> 
> http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-cpu-gigabyte-x370-damage-burning-bios-update



He made it here too.


----------



## qubit (Sep 2, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> He made it here too.


I did scroll down the TPU front page to check before posting, but didn't see it as it's further down than you would expect. 

https://www.techpowerup.com/236659/...herboard-bios-broken-dynamic-vcore-up-to-1-7v


----------



## psyko12 (Sep 2, 2017)

Ohohoho what a way to wake up in the morning. Apparently giga took the bios down and replaced it with a fixed one. 

That bios was really good but the vcore part made it undesirable.
Some can clock xmp speeds without tweaking. However my m-dies need a few tweaks with ram sub timings and voltages.
The VRM definitely is way more lower in temps. 
(Now F6 or latest fixed bios carries the same properties minus the vcore bug).

Alas I hope those who got their processors damaged will get some compensation, but highly doubtful about that.


----------



## qubit (Sep 2, 2017)

psyko12 said:


> Alas I hope those who got their processors damaged will get some compensation, but highly doubtful about that.


That's the annoying part. How do you prove that the CPU was damaged by that BIOS at those settings? It's just as possible that the CPU was killed in any number of other ways, so no way to prove it in practice and Gigabyte gets away with it.


----------



## psyko12 (Sep 2, 2017)

qubit said:


> That's the annoying part. How do you prove that the CPU was damaged by that BIOS at those settings? It's just as possible that the CPU was killed in any number of other ways, so no way to prove it in practice and Gigabyte gets away with it.



Damn it.. *Shakes fist!*

Well further update regarding the newer bios, everything is in order.

I just hate that they didn't even made  it as a beta bios and put it up on the site as a stable release and they didn't event say a word about it. Just put up hey new bios for those having issues with f5 et al.


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 2, 2017)

psyko12 said:


> Damn it.. *Shakes fist!*
> 
> Well further update regarding the newer bios, everything is in order.
> 
> I just hate that they didn't even made  it as a beta bios and put it up on the site as a stable release and they didn't event say a word about it. Just put up hey new bios for those having issues with f5 et al.



They don't even have a beta thread anymore.  They "accidentally" deleted their old one and "can't restore it."

Sometimes I wonder WTF GIGABYTE is thinking...


----------



## psyko12 (Sep 2, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> They don't even have a beta thread anymore.  They "accidentally" deleted their old one and "can't restore it."
> 
> Sometimes I wonder WTF GIGABYTE is thinking...


they still have! And there is were we continued other info. 

http://forum.gigabyte.us/thread/1542/original-am4-beta-bios-thread


----------



## Sempron Guy (Sep 2, 2017)

3400mhz cl 14 @ 1.4v using a 102 bclk. Haven't updated to the latest bios yet.


----------



## psyko12 (Sep 2, 2017)

Sempron Guy said:


> 3400mhz cl 14 @ 1.4v using a 102 bclk. Haven't updated to the latest bios yet.



I recognize that set up!!! Small world bro


----------



## xorbe (Sep 26, 2017)

Asus Prime B350M-A motherboard (w/latest 1.0.0.6b) + 1500X.  Can only seem to choose 3500-3800.  If I select 3900+ MHz, then it seems to run at minimum MHz despite showing 3900+.  Is this because it isn't X370 platform?

When set to 3900, then I see the clock toggling between 1550 and 3900 in my OS.  But I assure you, the performance is ABYSMAL like almost 3x slower than 3800.

Edit: Found similar cases on Reddit.  Seems like cpu voltage slams some B350 motherboards to min clocks.  Ah well, case solved, even if it's limited.  1.24v booted 3.9 but it's probably not stable, will just have to upgrade the board later if I want to play with it further.


----------



## the54thvoid (Sep 26, 2017)

xorbe said:


> Asus Prime B350M-A motherboard (w/latest 1.0.0.6b) + 1500X.  Can only seem to choose 3500-3800.  If I select 3900+ MHz, then it seems to run at minimum MHz despite showing 3900+.  Is this because it isn't X370 platform?
> 
> Edit:  When set to 3900, then I see the clock toggling between 1550 and 3900 in my OS.  But I assure you, the performance is ABYSMAL like almost 3x slower than 3800.



The power draw of the CPU or the VRM not supplying enough current?  If the board isn't designed for OC, it may be the PCB hardware isn't up to scratch.  Could that possibly affect the frequency by throttling it when pushed?

Also - 3.9Ghx of Ryzen is a pretty decent standard.  I cannot hold stable at 3.9Ghz on a 1700x with a X370 board (well, not if I want my memory at 3200Mhz).


----------



## xorbe (Sep 26, 2017)

It actually seems analog-ish.  +0.06875 (1.30625) may or may not be stuck at 1550 for that boot, but +0.0625 (1.3v) seems to not stick at 1550.  It's not throttling, it's plain stuck at min clock forever when it kicks in.  Just [B350] product segmentation, but the implementation is a bit misleading, you don't notice immediately unless benchmarking or observant ...

Using 1.3v, I've got 4Ghz + 3200 CL14 testing now, finally!  Seems to work.  4050 starts throwing ecc corrections in dmesg. Settled for plain 3900, seems like a safer choice.  My emacs is now optimized for best performance ...


----------



## xorbe (Sep 28, 2017)

At 4Ghz, 1.262v throws a black screen eventually, and 1.268v worked for 12 hours, so I opted for 1.293v which is a notch under my board's 1.3v limit, that's as good as this cpu+board combo is gonna do.

Any advice on SOC voltage?  It defaults to 1.1v at DDR4-3200 speeds, but it seems to work fine when soc manually set back to 0.831v?


----------



## DR4G00N (Sep 29, 2017)

Just got my new parts for my main rig upgrade a couple days ago.

This is what I've got stable so far.

R7 1700 @ 3.9GHz 1.35V
X370 Taichi
2x8GB G.skill Trident Z B-die @ 3466 14-14-14-34 1.35V

The cpu doesn't seem to want to do 4GHz though, tried up to 1.45V and it still crashes.

Still need to do some tweaking for 3600 14-14-14 on the memory.


----------



## xorbe (Sep 29, 2017)

Prime95 knocked out my 4GHz.  Wound up with 3.9 in the end.


----------



## DR4G00N (Sep 29, 2017)

The IMC is not too bad on this chip even if the cores are meh.
3600 14-13-13-34 1T 1.5V


----------



## zo0lykas (Sep 30, 2017)

Hello guys

maybe you can help me?!
i cant OC my rams over 2400 :-/ i tried everything or maybe i done something wrong way :/
tried play with timing,voltage, tried use xmp profiles, still 2400 :/ my rams listen on motherboard list.

motherboard - AX370 Gaming K7 v1
cpu - ryzen 1800x
rams - kingston hyperx predator HX432c16PB3k2/16

any advice?


----------



## xorbe (Oct 1, 2017)

Did you install into the prefered slots?  Did you set 1.35V?  Do you have latest bios with agesa 1.0.0.6b?


----------



## zo0lykas (Oct 1, 2017)

No i still keep them in the box.
Sure i did, and if you read i told i tried everything, voltage,timing,manually play with it, after tried xmp profiles, sure bios last, but before released last version with previous bios was the same. Not going higher than 2400


----------



## TheLostSwede (Oct 1, 2017)

Multiple UEFI updates later and AGESA 1.0.0.6b and still no luck with 3200MHz on my RAM 
I don't understand why, as others have made it work. 3066MHz is rock solid, 3200MHz boots, but it makes the system really flaky and causes blue screens...


----------



## the54thvoid (Oct 1, 2017)

TheLostSwede said:


> Multiple UEFI updates later and AGESA 1.0.0.6b and still no luck with 3200MHz on my RAM
> I don't understand why, as others have made it work. 3066MHz is rock solid, 3200MHz boots, but it makes the system really flaky and causes blue screens...



If it's not QVL memory, nothing is guaranteed but it also seems with Ryzen, nothing is guaranteed.  My GSkill wouldnt hack it at optimum profiles so i needed to use a different DOCP setting, in other words, my Bclk is 104 I think, not 100.  Have you got the option to experiment with different base clock settings o the motherboard?


----------



## PHaS3 (Oct 1, 2017)

I may be a little late to this party, but I'd like to sub / share. 

I got my hands on a Ryzen 7 1700 to replace my i5 3570K (was at 4.6GHz), 16GB Corsair LPX DDR4 2400 (I have it stable at 2667 for now), MSI Gaming Plus X370. I'm using the stock Spire cooler until my retention bracket for my H105 arrives. 

Absolutely loving this CPU and platform, everything is definitely smoother than before, even though I technically run less RAM (used to have 24GB now 16). I tested a small OC to 3.8GHz, ran flawlessly and didn't pass 79°C on this stock cooler  Retreated back to stock for now, at least until I can use the 105 again, but honestly I don't see the need to OC yet...


----------



## TheLostSwede (Oct 1, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> If it's not QVL memory, nothing is guaranteed but it also seems with Ryzen, nothing is guaranteed.  My GSkill wouldnt hack it at optimum profiles so i needed to use a different DOCP setting, in other words, my Bclk is 104 I think, not 100.  Have you got the option to experiment with different base clock settings o the motherboard?



It's on the list, but not at the rated speed... And no, no option to change base speeds. Asus also run their boards at sub 100MHz bus speed...


----------



## HTC (Oct 1, 2017)

PHaS3 said:


> I may be a little late to this party, but I'd like to sub / share.
> 
> I got my hands on a Ryzen 7 1700 to replace my i5 3570K (was at 4.6GHz), 16GB Corsair LPX DDR4 2400 (I have it stable at 2667 for now), MSI Gaming Plus X370. *I'm using the stock Spire cooler until my retention bracket for my H105 arrives*.
> 
> Absolutely loving this CPU and platform, everything is definitely smoother than before, even though I technically run less RAM (used to have 24GB now 16). I tested a small OC to 3.8GHz, ran flawlessly and didn't pass 79°C on this stock cooler  Retreated back to stock for now, at least until I can use the 105 again, but honestly I don't see the need to OC yet...



Assuming you used the stock paste that came with the cooler, be careful when removing the stock cooler so you avoid what happened to me when i tried to swap it.


----------



## PHaS3 (Oct 1, 2017)

HTC said:


> Assuming you used the stock paste that came with the cooler, be careful when removing the stock cooler so you avoid what happened to me when i tried to swap it.



I think this happened with every AMD CPU I have ever had  (except my 2500+ Barton lol). Thanks for the heads up though  I remember the first time I saw it I also was a little concerned but its a thing :/


----------



## HTC (Oct 1, 2017)

PHaS3 said:


> I think this happened with every AMD CPU I have ever had  (except my 2500+ Barton lol). Thanks for the heads up though  I remember the first time I saw it I also was a little concerned but its a thing :/



In my case, it was the 1st time i had the cooler that stuck to the CPU once the fixating part was removed.

Scared the crap out of me when i noticed the CPU had been yanked from the board, because i thought i had just screwed my new AM4 system.


----------



## PHaS3 (Oct 1, 2017)

HTC said:


> Scared the crap out of me when i noticed the CPU had been yanked from the board, because i thought i had just screwed my new AM4 system.



Pulling game must be strong lol  In all seriousness, it is a bit scary and dodgy when it happens the first time.


----------



## xorbe (Oct 2, 2017)

It's very hard to remove the stock cooler without taking the cpu with it, even with the chip warmed up.  I can't twist the hsf because the pins are still in the holes despite fully unscrewed.  I have never had this challenge before with any other system!


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## zo0lykas (Oct 2, 2017)

maybe enough spam out of topic ?

better give some advice how oc rams


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## xorbe (Oct 2, 2017)

zo0lykas said:


> maybe enough spam out of topic ?



I checked the last couple pages, everything seems Ryzen related (troubleshooting and guidance, per OP's first post).


----------



## PHaS3 (Oct 3, 2017)

zo0lykas said:


> Hello guys
> 
> maybe you can help me?!
> i cant OC my rams over 2400 :-/ i tried everything or maybe i done something wrong way :/
> ...





xorbe said:


> Did you install into the prefered slots?  Did you set 1.35V?  Do you have latest bios with agesa 1.0.0.6b?





zo0lykas said:


> No i still keep them in the box.
> Sure i did, and if you read i told i tried everything, voltage,timing,manually play with it, after tried xmp profiles, sure bios last, but before released last version with previous bios was the same. Not going higher than 2400





zo0lykas said:


> maybe enough spam out of topic ?
> 
> better give some advice how oc rams



You're not taking advice too well, hence people seemed to move on with life rather than deal with "No I still keep them in the box" type sarcastic comments.

If you're on the latest bios for your board, and have "tried everything", then it may be just really terrible luck. The modules appear to not be dual rank, and the XMP profiles should be fine. I assume you tried both Profile 1 and 2? As in if 3200 didn't work, perhaps 3000 would? Have you tried manually setting say 2667 with appropriate timings of similar RAM modules at that speed?


----------



## HUSKIE (Oct 3, 2017)

AM4+ is coming..... Very soon


----------



## zo0lykas (Oct 3, 2017)

Hi

honestly I never tried go lower than 3200 

just now back from work, and tried

2666 working well 16-18-18-36 // 1.35
2800 working well 16-18-18-36 // 1.35
2933 working well 16-18-18-36 // 1.35

when I oc to 3066, I already knew that not gonna start, because when I safe and exit in bios, always windows load straight up, but this time is start and reboot 3 times quick reboot, don't know how explain, start pc and after 1-2sec shutdown, and repeat it 3 times. when load windows, and I can see 2400 :/
same happens with 3200.

so for now I stable with 2933

Thanks for advice go lower 
any more advice ?

apologise for my english



PHaS3 said:


> You're not taking advice too well, hence people seemed to move on with life rather than deal with "No I still keep them in the box" type sarcastic comments.
> 
> If you're on the latest bios for your board, and have "tried everything", then it may be just really terrible luck. The modules appear to not be dual rank, and the XMP profiles should be fine. I assume you tried both Profile 1 and 2? As in if 3200 didn't work, perhaps 3000 would? Have you tried manually setting say 2667 with appropriate timings of similar RAM modules at that speed?


----------



## PHaS3 (Oct 3, 2017)

zo0lykas said:


> Hi
> 
> honestly I never tried go lower than 3200
> 
> ...



Good stuff, glad its working at 2933... better than 2400, hey 

I think you're probably sorted, your ram should handle 2933 no problem since its lower than its XMP stock. Hope you enjoy your Ryzen more now too 

Happy to have helped a bit.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Oct 4, 2017)

Any 1600 or 1600X users

Thinking of downgrading to one


----------



## PHaS3 (Oct 4, 2017)

Durvelle27 said:


> Any 1600 or 1600X users
> 
> Thinking of downgrading to one



Any particular reason why? Gaming performance?  I have a 1700 and I wouldn’t want to do that. Love me my 1700. I don’t have any performance issues in any games as it is.


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## Durvelle27 (Oct 4, 2017)

PHaS3 said:


> Any particular reason why? Gaming performance?  I have a 1700 and I wouldn’t want to do that. Love me my 1700. I don’t have any performance issues in any games as it is.


Funds and some other things

So need to make some downgrades


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## PHaS3 (Oct 4, 2017)

Durvelle27 said:


> Funds and some other things
> 
> So need to make some downgrades



Cool, didn’t mean to pry, was wondering if you’d found something you don’t like about the 1700 

I’ve seen a lot of positive results from the 1600 and 1600X in gaming etc.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Oct 4, 2017)

PHaS3 said:


> Cool, didn’t mean to pry, was wondering if you’d found something you don’t like about the 1700
> 
> I’ve seen a lot of positive results from the 1600 and 1600X in gaming etc.


nahhh i loved it 

Just need to downgrade

wondering if the 1600 would hold back dual Vega 64s


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 4, 2017)

HUSKIE said:


> AM4+ is coming..... Very soon



Says who?


----------



## PHaS3 (Oct 4, 2017)

Durvelle27 said:


> wondering if the 1600 would hold back dual Vega 64s



I think dual Vega 64s would hold back dual Vega 64s lol. I want a 56 or 64 so bad (need to replace GTX970).  I think a 1600 (and X) will be fine with it. Arguably more compute power than a 7700K via thread count on multi-threaded apps, "fast enough" single threaded... I don't think there'd be a problem.


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## zo0lykas (Oct 4, 2017)

?? ;-) https://www.techpowerup.com/237586/amd-ryzen-5-1600-and-1600x-cpus-found-with-8-working-cores



Durvelle27 said:


> nahhh i loved it
> 
> Just need to downgrade
> 
> wondering if the 1600 would hold back dual Vega 64s


----------



## Durvelle27 (Oct 4, 2017)

PHaS3 said:


> I think dual Vega 64s would hold back dual Vega 64s lol. I want a 56 or 64 so bad (need to replace GTX970).  I think a 1600 (and X) will be fine with it. Arguably more compute power than a 7700K via thread count on multi-threaded apps, "fast enough" single threaded... I don't think there'd be a problem.


Under water they should be fine 



zo0lykas said:


> ?? ;-) https://www.techpowerup.com/237586/amd-ryzen-5-1600-and-1600x-cpus-found-with-8-working-cores


Ehhhh I need further proof than task manager


----------



## zo0lykas (Oct 6, 2017)

Not bad at all ) just jump from 
Fx-9370 to 1800x. If we compare synthetic benchmarks 1800x 3x faster, and take less powet, but if we compare in games no different at all 

btw i notice when pc is off, from wall socket pc draining 19-20w strange.
With old fx9370 was 1-3w only..

Any ideas? 



PHaS3 said:


> Good stuff, glad its working at 2933... better than 2400, hey
> 
> I think you're probably sorted, your ram should handle 2933 no problem since its lower than its XMP stock. Hope you enjoy your Ryzen more now too
> 
> Happy to have helped a bit.


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 6, 2017)

zo0lykas said:


> btw i notice when pc is off, from wall socket pc draining 19-20w strange.
> With old fx9370 was 1-3w only..
> 
> Any ideas?



Did you change the PSU or any other components during the build?  CPU shouldn't matter there.


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## zo0lykas (Oct 6, 2017)

not really.
i change motherboard + rams + cpu + gpu, rest staff like water pump,fans,psu,ssd,dvd same :-/

just wondering, or some one have "watt reader"  and notice same think ? on ryzen setup?



R-T-B said:


> Did you change the PSU or any other components during the build?  CPU shouldn't matter there.


----------



## toilet pepper (Oct 6, 2017)

zo0lykas said:


> not really.
> i change motherboard + rams + cpu + gpu, rest staff like water pump,fans,psu,ssd,dvd same :-/
> 
> just wondering, or some one have "watt reader"  and notice same think ? on ryzen setup?



New boards wpuld have some new fearures like leds that wont freaking turn off unless you switch the psu off.


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## PHaS3 (Oct 6, 2017)

zo0lykas said:


> Not bad at all ) just jump from
> Fx-9370 to 1800x. If we compare synthetic benchmarks 1800x 3x faster, and take less powet, but if we compare in games no different at all
> 
> btw i notice when pc is off, from wall socket pc draining 19-20w strange.
> ...





toilet pepper said:


> New boards wpuld have some new fearures like leds that wont freaking turn off unless you switch the psu off.



LEDs don't use a whole lot of power by themselves, a wall power adapter to power some external ones may use a bit even if they're not on, but not on-board LEDs. Certainly not like 10W, as far as I know.

Are you shutting your PC down completely or just sleeping it? Full shut down should be off, minimal power for PSU like your 9370 was, where sleep will still pull some power. I assume you aren't running your monitor off the same power cable split, too? If your water cooling is custom loop, does it all shut down completely when PC is off still? 

Other than those ideas, i got nothing. Could be a faulty reading or just a quirk of the hardware.


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## R-T-B (Oct 6, 2017)

You also could try erp lot 3 (or whatever it is called) enabled in bios, if you have it.  Turns off unnecesary things on full shutdown.


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## zo0lykas (Oct 7, 2017)

PHaS3 said:


> LEDs don't use a whole lot of power by themselves, a wall power adapter to power some external ones may use a bit even if they're not on, but not on-board LEDs. Certainly not like 10W, as far as I know.
> 
> Are you shutting your PC down completely or just sleeping it? Full shut down should be off, minimal power for PSU like your 9370 was, where sleep will still pull some power. I assume you aren't running your monitor off the same power cable split, too? If your water cooling is custom loop, does it all shut down completely when PC is off still?
> 
> Other than those ideas, i got nothing. Could be a faulty reading or just a quirk of the hardware.



iam on same opinion about LED's they just cant drain ~19W when they are OFF :-D if they are draining 19W then off how much draining then they are on? if now iam browsing or
watching movies from socket 110-120W.

Yes i make full shut down, never sleep or hibernation sleep. sure i check before all power settings in power plan.

And "Watt Reader" conneted only for PSU  cable so that ~19W going fck knows where  in board.





R-T-B said:


> You also could try erp lot 3 (or whatever it is called) enabled in bios, if you have it. * Turns off unnecesary things* on full shutdown.



like what ? not really understand you


----------



## Nuckles56 (Oct 7, 2017)

A lot of motherboards always have power to the USB ports even when the system is fully shut down so that will add to the power draw and when you're drawing 19W from the wall, you are only getting probably 12 or 13W available to the system by the time you have PSU losses


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## zo0lykas (Oct 7, 2017)

yes sure i know what you mean but anyway 19W its far to much, like i said with old FX9370 + motherboard was gigabyte ud7 v1 and i have like you try say usb power, and most time i charge or mouse or phone, was 2-5W when charging.

when system shutted down, drainig 18-19W, when on at moment 107W with ryzen 1800x oc to 4ghz and 1080 oc, + 8 fans + water pump and some RGBBB  lol

no sense :-/ for me



Nuckles56 said:


> A lot of motherboards always have power to the USB ports even when the system is fully shut down so that will add to the power draw and when you're drawing 19W from the wall, you are only getting probably 12 or 13W available to the system by the time you have PSU losses


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## YautjaLord (Oct 13, 2017)

I'm alive! lol Let's make this Zen garden great again. Nah, f*ck it, i had terrible day, _entire f*ckin' day,_ fiddling with what da f*ck is wrong with everything - _everything _- i did to OC my 1700X. Last tweak looked like this:

CPU freq: 4.0GHz;
CPU voltage: 1.4000v;
DRAM: XMP Profile 1 2400MHz (Ripjaws V, you can see my sys specs);
VDD18: 1.880v;
VDDP: Auto;
SoC Voltz: 1.15v;
The rest either Auto or i forgot, coz my head have gone quite bananaz from all this shit, slightly but still..... lol But hey, atleast i can run P95 - _right now _- plus type this shit, without this PC dying/BSOD'ing on me all of the sudden. How many F-bomb & profanities i used? Yeah, i had quite a headache, ain't i? lol P95 Blend test, should have mentioned. Also CPU is @ default 3.4GHz clock.


----------



## PHaS3 (Oct 13, 2017)

1.400v a little much, isn't it? 

I took delivery of my AM4 retention bracket for my H105 this morning. Tonight's the night  I may see how far I can go, but I've been impressed with even the stock performance of my 1700.


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 13, 2017)

PHaS3 said:


> 1.400v a little much, isn't it?



The chip can take that no prob with proper cooling, and it's not really for 4GHz.


----------



## PHaS3 (Oct 13, 2017)

I thought 1.40 was a lot for Ryzen, but I see with some proper cooling 1.45 is max. Interesting  Most tweaking I've done with CPU clocks and voltages was a minor 3.8 OC on all cores with 1.35v, just to see if it would work (and naturally it did). 

The bug has bit now though, when my H105 is on all bets are off


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 13, 2017)

AMD has pretty much said 1.45 is the "max safe" voltage (technically they are more conservative but admit the "silicon can take it no problem.")

They don't really recommend going too far into the 1.4v territory without good cooling though.


----------



## PHaS3 (Oct 13, 2017)

Hows your 1800X going? Its your second one hey, after your RMA fun time and linux issues?


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 13, 2017)

Update. P95 found worker/core #13 stopped working after 1h of Blend test. On default 3.4GHz freq. Dafuk?!!!! lol Even funnier than that is this:






The one below was prior to me fiddling around with frequencies n stuff, the last one was _after _i reverted back to the same 3.4GHz frequency after all attempts to sort this shit out. Dunno what happened, i'll keep tryin', if any of you have anything to add, like what to tweak & what to leave @ Auto or disable altogether - i'm all ears. 

CPU-Z's bench on both 3.4GHz & 4.0GHz - gave awesome numbers, reference CPU for both single & multi thread benches was i7 5960X, 4.0GHz 1700X was 41% better/faster(?) than 5960X; CPU-Z stress test on 4.0GHz failed miserably, as in crashed to the mobo's splash/BIOS screen. lol I'm really interested in reaching these 4.02 gigahertz.  Cheers.


----------



## the54thvoid (Oct 13, 2017)

On my 1700X, on a good air cooler, my max is 3.82Ghz rock solid stable.  Memory is at 3200 with 14 timings though.  It'd be interesting to see what is better, 4.0Ghz at 2400 mem frequency or 3.8Ghz at 3200 mem frequency


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## YautjaLord (Oct 13, 2017)

the54thvoid said:


> On my 1700X, on a good air cooler, my max is 3.82Ghz rock solid stable.  Memory is at 3200 with 14 timings though.  It'd be interesting to see what is better, 4.0Ghz at 2400 mem frequency or 3.8Ghz at 3200 mem frequency



Should have mentioned, the mobo's (GA-AX370-Gaming-K7) BIOS is F7a - read a lot of stories how wonky & f*cked up GB's BIOSes can be, but this...... RMA for either or both mobo & CPU? lol And yeah, i'd like to see this shit too, don't worry, actually these 2x16GBs of DDR4 2400MHz RAM will (most definitely) be replaced with 2x8GB of DDR4 3600MHz HyperX Predators just to suit my all black/LED RGB rig aesthetics, will purchase GB's 2xGTX 1070 G1s along with Samsung's 950 Pro M.2, just gimme few months tho. lol

P.S. M$'s Edge browser is one whacky POS, back to good ol' IE11, lol, also uninstalled a bunch of Win 10 shit i don't feel i need, IE11 FTW!!!! Sorry for OT, cheers all. 

Testing if something is wonky with RAM sticks, how do you find out if whether BIOS or CPU done f*cked up as well? (sorry for AngryJoe-esque gimmick, lol jk) Will take me some time to figure out if either RAM slot(s) or RAM sticks went FUBAR. Prior to removing one of RAM sticks i had 2 series of 3 short beeps followed by one series of single long beep, PC turn off & back on between each of the series, than it would get back to normal short beep, POST, Win 10. Now it's one short beep, Win 10, done. Albeit with one 16GB stick.


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## YautjaLord (Oct 14, 2017)

Update time, sorry for double post. Here:




Using Ryzen Master, so far so good. Will keep going, definitely won't OC RAM *at all*, atleast til I get my hands on 2x8GB HyperX Predator 3600MHz, 1541cbs on 3.6GHz made easy eh? lol Cheers. 

P.S. Left vCore & SoC voltages at their Ryzen Master defaults, i.e. didn't touched these for now, vCore is at 1.325 methink.

P.P.S. 3.40GHz? Why? 3.40 is better than 3.40? Dafuk? Quirky dorky CinebenchR15? lol


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## ChristTheGreat (Oct 14, 2017)

1700 here, with a gigabyte AX370-Gaming K3, Corsair 2666mhz, cpu goes to 3.65ghz at 1.33v, can't even reach 3.8ghz with 1.38v. I guess the board is not suited for good overclock, as there is no loadline calibration, or fixed voltage


----------



## Norton (Oct 14, 2017)

ChristTheGreat said:


> 1700 here, with a gigabyte AX370-Gaming K3, Corsair 2666mhz, cpu goes to 3.65ghz at 1.33v, can't even reach 3.8ghz with 1.38v. I guess the board is not suited for good overclock, as there is no loadline calibration, or fixed voltage


Gotta crunch that beast... should be good for 12k ppd


----------



## agent00skid (Oct 14, 2017)

My Ryzen 5 1400 in an AsRock AB350 Pro4 with a 4GB stick of whatever memory. CPU at 3,75GHz and 3066CL18 on the memory.


----------



## ChristTheGreat (Oct 14, 2017)

Norton said:


> Gotta crunch that beast... should be good for 12k ppd




WIll soon


----------



## Durvelle27 (Oct 14, 2017)

agent00skid said:


> My Ryzen 5 1400 in an AsRock AB350 Pro4 with a 4GB stick of whatever memory. CPU at 3,75GHz and 3066CL18 on the memory.
> View attachment 93025


Putting stress on the PCIe a lot with GPU leaning like that

Find a way to keep it up right


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 14, 2017)

Yet another update:

CPU-Z stress test (10 or approx. 15 min) @ 3.6GHz:




CPU-Z general CPU/mobo/etc.. info:



And to finish that one off, a nice CPU-Z validation page of this OC: https://valid.x86.fr/v6gwek Funny thing, i thought all this time that this Cinebench R15 1541cb score was @ 3.6GHz, but it was at Ryzen Master's "default"(?) 3.5GHz OC. lol 4.0GHz failed me with CPU-Z stress test (less than a 15sec into the test), P95 & CinebenchR15 albeit it was when i had 2x16GB Ripjaws V & F7a BIOS, gonna test R15 & P95 on this frequency - 1h of P95 will suffice if i don't want to rob myself with exaggerated electricity bill?  Sitting @ X370 Gaming K7's BIOS version F6.

*EDIT*

Cinebench R15 score (1700X @ 3.6GHz):


----------



## agent00skid (Oct 14, 2017)

Durvelle27 said:


> Putting stress on the PCIe a lot with GPU leaning like that
> 
> Find a way to keep it up right



Nah, the card is barely leaning. It's also resting on the SB heatsink.


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 15, 2017)

No wandering into OC land for me this week. Maybe next week or even end of the month, for now i stuck with troubleshooting what da f*ck is wrong with my rig, fiddling with K7's BIOS & with 3.4GHz. Had to switch back to CMOS defaults, in the words of JayzTwoCents - "boot looped like crazy", sorry.  If any of you can assist what to tweak & what to avoid tweaking when OC'ing - much appreciation. Cheers.


----------



## PHaS3 (Oct 19, 2017)

Hi Fellow Ryzen Peeps  

I have a question regarding platform drivers. Does your system have AMD drivers installed for the AMD AHCI / SATA controller? If so, did they install with the chipset driver package from AMD or did you download something different?

My PC has this running:





As you can see, IDE ATA/ATAPI drivers are all of the Standard MS variety. I do have the latest chipset drivers installed for Ryzen from AMD, and I have searched online for other drivers via the update driver dialogue in Device Manager. 

I know some of you will be running the RAID driver, but that wont help me since I'm not. I must either be missing something, or this is something that everyone has and I shouldn't be bothered


----------



## xorbe (Oct 19, 2017)

I don't see any red (!) exclamation points or (?) question marks, so I'm happy with that screenshot. ;-)


----------



## zo0lykas (Oct 19, 2017)




----------



## PHaS3 (Oct 20, 2017)

xorbe said:


> I don't see any red (!) exclamation points or (?) question marks, so I'm happy with that screenshot. ;-)



Yeah, that's not my point though. From what I see, AMD don't provide any driver for the SATA controller and leave it up to MS, who's driver date appears to be 21-06-2006.

In the past, I recall getting better drive performance when installing the proper manufacturer drivers, but that was back in like the Athlon64 days. As far as I'm concerned, its like leaving your graphics card with the Standard VGA Adapter driver, and saying "no exclaim or no question mark, seems 100s".


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 20, 2017)

Anyone tested their Ryzens under Win 10 new 1709 build? I'm the unlucky one to DL this version from MS's website yesterday & this shit just automatically got back to 1703 cause i was frustrated with Fall Creators update, so much BSODs & quirks cannot be tolerated. F*ckin' M$ schmucks.


----------



## Rehmanpa (Oct 20, 2017)

Finally got my ryzen 1700 on Wednesday. Going to hopefully build it tomorrow, I'm really excited. Hoping for a nice solid 4ghz of oc.

Gonna upload some pics when done


----------



## PHaS3 (Oct 20, 2017)

YautjaLord said:


> Anyone tested their Ryzens under Win 10 new 1709 build? I'm the unlucky one to DL this version from MS's website yesterday & this shit just automatically got back to 1703 cause i was frustrated with Fall Creators update, so much BSODs & quirks cannot be tolerated. F*ckin' M$ schmucks.



I have had not a single stability problem with the F. C. Update. If anything my PC seems a little snappier. I had a weird one with my HyperV config, where a VM's SCSI controller refused to work with some obscure Access Denied message. I removed the controller from the VM, re-added it, re-passed through all the drives and it was sorted.


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 20, 2017)

Staying with build 1703 for now, beats me what da f*ck is wrong with either my rig or OS (or both?), hey - Ryzen 7 1700X CPU-Z benchmark & validation page @ 3.8GHz, so far no problems, whaddyaknow,  :

Bench & 1700X general CPU-Z info:




CPU-Z validation: https://valid.x86.fr/lmgpt6

Next up - Cinebench R15.


----------



## zo0lykas (Oct 20, 2017)

1.41 voltage? I think far to much for 3.8..



YautjaLord said:


> Staying with build 1703 for now, beats me what da f*ck is wrong with either my rig or OS (or both?), hey - Ryzen 7 1700X CPU-Z benchmark & validation page @ 3.8GHz, so far no problems, whaddyaknow,  :
> 
> Bench & 1700X general CPU-Z info:
> View attachment 93249
> ...


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 20, 2017)

Who said i won't go berserk & bump this beast all the way to 4.0? But yeah, i love Overkill (both band & Motorhead song).  Doing a stress test of same 3.8 with CPU-Z, as i typing this message.


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## zo0lykas (Oct 20, 2017)

What motherboard you have? Btw you oc your pc how do you want  nobody judging you 



YautjaLord said:


> Who said i won't go berserk & bump this beast all the way to 4.0? But yeah, i love Overkill (both band & Motorhead song).  Doing a stress test of same 3.8 with CPU-Z, as i typing this message.


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## YautjaLord (Oct 20, 2017)

Dafukd'yaknow, this shit actually work! lol jk @zo0lykas:

3.8GHz
1.45v vCore
1.35v SoC voltage
2.1v VDD18
0.2v VDDP
CPU LLC Turbo
Mobo: GA-AX370-Gaming-K7/BIOS version F6

Cinebench R15 @ these settings (failed me prior to that, was 3.8GHz but @ 1.425v vCore & 2.0v VDD18):





Froze for few (nerve wrecking) seconds, i go in my head "Da f*ck you not!!!!" to Cinebench, suddenly - this pops up. lol Next up - Prime95 blend test for 1h @ that frequency. 

*UPDATE*

Funny shit happened:  ran Prime95 ~2h ago, 1st run; forgot that i have Ryzen Balanced power plan enabled, after 1h+ coming back, rig "sleeps"; waking it up results in no P95, CPU-Z & HWInfo windows where they should've been; 2nd run - almost 1h run, stopped it, no BSODs - *hold it! *- as i'm about to post the screen dump here, bang - BSOD. lol CPU temp in HWInfo64 reached frightening 87.1 degrees C, so basically i almost fried 1700X with this test. 

 Regardless, here's the pic of approx. 1h run (54+ mins) of Prime95 on 1700X @ 3.8GHz:


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## YautjaLord (Oct 26, 2017)

Sorry for double-post.

Long story short: did these tests @ 3.9GHz/1.46v, last one was with AIDA64, test started @ 62 degrees C, on a 3rd or 4th minute spiked to 71 degrees & reset itself, dropped vCore to 1.45v, it ran for approx. 1+ hour, few freezes occurred (each lasted for few seconds tho), but overall was not hard resetting my rig, only CPU was ticked, gonna run these tests again (AIDA64, Prime95, Cinebench R15, etc..) @ 4.0GHz/1.45v at some point, maybe tomorrow, maybe throughout next week. I'm prepping myself for reviewing this stuff @ my YT channel, this rig (1 of planned 2) will be used for "TechTubing", game streaming (AvP3 MP & Carmageddon Max Damage MP & probably Quake Champions), video editing (Lightworks) & creating custom vehicle & levels mods for C:MD in Blender among other things, it needs to be stable!!!! lol

Pics:


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## Johan45 (Oct 27, 2017)

If I read your specs right yutja. I'd blame that single stick od dual rank low binned hynix for a lot of your overclocking grief. Ryzen doesn't like dual rank sticks or hynix and takes a lot of finessing on the ram to get it to run properly sometimes it still won't. SOC at 1.35v just isn't right. That's way too high. Typical is 1.0-1.1v for ram speeds up to 3600


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## psyko12 (Oct 27, 2017)

@YautjaLord : This is my 1700x @ 3.8ghz on 1.35v + a bit of offset and on LLC high (I'm using bios F7B with P-State OC)

RAM kits are CL16 non RGB* Trident Z's of Hynix M dies running at 3200 mhz 16-16-16-38 (Too lazy to tweak sub timings, I don't have much time to allocate for stressing and testing, need to use it for work and casual gaming  )

vRAM @ 1.45v
VSoC 1.15v
Geardown Mode off
Bank Swap off

https://valid.x86.fr/1453wf

      

Low scores on benches due to banksgroupswap and geardownmode off, but can greatly help with fps in games.
https://community.amd.com/community...emory-oc-showdown-frequency-vs-memory-timings


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## YautjaLord (Oct 29, 2017)

I'll be off this awesome thread for a while, month, maybe 2, see y'all around here & on my YT channel. @psyko12: Had one too, gave nice score of 1642cb in  Cinebench R15, awesome CPU regardless. Cheers all. Prepping this rig is a pain in the ass, atleast for me: apparently my GTX 760 DC II dies on me.


----------



## psyko12 (Oct 29, 2017)

YautjaLord said:


> I'll be off this awesome thread for a while, month, maybe 2, see y'all around here & on my YT channel. @psyko12: Had one too, gave nice score of 1642cb in  Cinebench R15, awesome CPU regardless. Cheers all. Prepping this rig is a pain in the ass, atleast for me: apparently my GTX 760 DC II dies on me.



That sucks! Well hope you get it sorted out, alot of sales inbound this time (Blacfriday , holidays, etc.) maybe you can find a good deal on a new gpu.

Cheers!


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## YautjaLord (Oct 29, 2017)

@psyko12: Thanx. Will be able to to do it next month tho.

@Johan45: Totally forgot about that, it's still on my mobo's QVL. Nevermind, found a PC store in Tel Aviv (30-40 mins drive from my home) that sells HyperX Predator DDR4 3200MHz, once i'll have these will OC da f*ck out of 'em! lol Thanx regardless, cheers all. 

Also, before i forget: i'm @ F6 BIOS/AGESA 1.0.0.6 update, shouldn't it fix various RAM quirks/issues? Gigabyte updated their QVL after they released F6 update, support both single & dual rank Hynix & Samsung's single & i think dual rank B-die modules. Mobo (check my sys specs) now supports RAM speeds upto 3600-3666MHz without downgrading to Ryzen capped 3200MHz. Regardless, gonna buy these HypeX modules next month or more realistically next year ( Jan or even Feb 2018).


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## Mussels (Oct 29, 2017)

Oh hai guys, i've gone double zen just to hang out here

See specs/sig for details

My build, with all its messy cabling: (140mm fan cools the VRMs)





Wifes tidy, RGB Ryzen build


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## The Data Master (Oct 30, 2017)

I finally made the jump to the 1600. I use it for gaming, encoding, and WCG. I have not OCed it yet and probably won't until I replace it with a new chip and it becomes a dedicated WCG machine. Considering it came with its own heatsink and benches as high as it does for the cost, I am extremely happy with my purchase. I also decided to stay at 2400mhz ram for the time being because of all of the reports of failing ram. Motherboard is a basic MSI board. I'll update my profile stats so everyone can see the gear in my primary rig.


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## Mussels (Oct 31, 2017)

The Data Master said:


> I finally made the jump to the 1600. I use it for gaming, encoding, and WCG. I have not OCed it yet and probably won't until I replace it with a new chip and it becomes a dedicated WCG machine. Considering it came with its own heatsink and benches as high as it does for the cost, I am extremely happy with my purchase. I also decided to stay at 2400mhz ram for the time being because of all of the reports of failing ram. Motherboard is a basic MSI board. I'll update my profile stats so everyone can see the gear in my primary rig.



a very basic OC like 3.6ghz should be very easy to setup, and run very cold on the stock cooler


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## YautjaLord (Nov 1, 2017)

Pics of my current build till i upgrade few parts & come back here by end of this year, enjoy:











P.S. Shot with Galaxy J3 (2016), 8MP (4:3) 3264x2448 cam. Sony's Alpha A77 II costs 5000 - 7000 sheckels (~1500 - 2000USD), and i don't have that kind of money. And yeah, i slightly modded my HAF X - in place of HDD/SSD cage there's  pump at the bottom where the cage used to be. Cheers all, see y'all by the end of this year.


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## Johan45 (Nov 2, 2017)

Looks good


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## YautjaLord (Nov 3, 2017)

@Johan45: Yeah, I know right?  jk

Y'all won't believe this shit, check this out: haven't tested AvP3 DX11 yet, but did test Carmageddon: Max Damage, last time i played it, i got to the point of where i chose 10 ton cop vehicle, turned on sirens/horn, ZBANG - BSOD, hard reset, no game, lol; *now *i could play the City B level from the beginning til the end. How? Left vCore to 1.45v, lowered SoC voltage to it's highest 1.1v voltage (from 1.35v) & VDD18 to 1.8v (from 2.1v); the game abso-f*ckin-lutely *hated *this OC, CPU LLC right now @ Extreme tho. But i still have a month or 2 to tweak & stabilize this OC. Got 70+ or even 100+ fps stead of measly 40/50+ fps i had prior to that; with _single_ GTX 760 DC II!!!!!

P.S. Got lower score in Cinebench R15 tho: 1598cb, stead of last highest 1648cb with these tweaks, once i'll get HyperX 3200 or even 3333MHz DDR4 Predator 2x8GB sticks will test it with 1.35v SoC & 2.0v VDD18 voltages. Cheers.


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## Johan45 (Nov 3, 2017)

YautjaLord said:


> @Johan45: Yeah, I know right?  jk
> 
> Y'all won't believe this shit, check this out: haven't tested AvP3 DX11 yet, but did test Carmageddon: Max Damage, last time i played it, i got to the point of where i chose 10 ton cop vehicle, turned on sirens/horn, ZBANG - BSOD, hard reset, no game, lol; *now *i could play the City B level from the beginning til the end. How? Left vCore to 1.45v, lowered SoC voltage to it's highest 1.1v voltage (from 1.35v) & VDD18 to 1.8v (from 2.1v); the game abso-f*ckin-lutely *hated *this OC, CPU LLC right now @ Extreme tho. But i still have a month or 2 to tweak & stabilize this OC. Got 70+ or even 100+ fps stead of measly 40/50+ fps i had prior to that; with _single_ GTX 760 DC II!!!!!
> 
> P.S. Got lower score in Cinebench R15 tho: 1598cb, stead of last highest 1648cb with these tweaks, once i'll get HyperX 3200 or even 3333MHz DDR4 Predator 2x8GB sticks will test it with 1.35v SoC & 2.0v VDD18 voltages. Cheers.


I still think you're overvolting to compensate for the DR stick of ram, also do yourself a favour. Save the cash and get a decent set of Samsung based ram. It'll save you all kinds of headaches


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## YautjaLord (Nov 4, 2017)

@Johan45: Checked for a few modules, AnandTech or Tom's HW says these Hynix-based single rank/single sided 3200/3333MHz HyperX Predator sticks will work great on my Gaming K7, besides money's not the issue by December this year or January next year, thanx regardless. Cheers.


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## phanbuey (Nov 4, 2017)

Mussels said:


> Oh hai guys, i've gone double zen just to hang out here
> 
> See specs/sig for details
> 
> ...



Clean builds are clean.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Nov 5, 2017)

So I hope to be ditching my current rig (2600k) and moving on to a 1700x here soon. Has anybody done that in here, and if so what can I expect?


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## YautjaLord (Nov 5, 2017)

@TheMailMan78: If it helps, i'm considering buying i7 7700K & GA-AZ270-Gaming-K7 + 2nd HAF X just to compare to my current rig (see my sys specs), but regardless, i'd still urge you (for a lack of a better word) to get one; heck, you can compare your 2600K & this beast in both productivity & gaming. I would.  Cheers.

@Johan45: Which of these 2 you'd recommend:

G. Skill Ripjaws V 3600MHz 2x8GB CL16: https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3600c16d-16gvk
or HyperX Predator 3200MHz 2x8GB: https://www.hyperxgaming.com/us/memory/predator-ddr4?Speed=3200MHz&Module Capacity=8GB&Total (Kit) Capacity=16GB&Kit=Kit of 2

HyperX Predator is Hynix single rank/single sided module & it can be OC'd to desired frequencies & it's XMP 2.0 just like G. Skill's Ripjaws V & is one of highly recommended RAM modules for Ryzen. (CL might be higher then Ripjaws V's tho) Will buy either one of these by next year, Jan 10 to be more specific.


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## phanbuey (Nov 5, 2017)

TheMailMan78 said:


> So I hope to be ditching my current rig (2600k) and moving on to a 1700x here soon. Has anybody done that in here, and if so what can I expect?




Windows will be really snappy, threaded tasks will scream.  Current games will be identical, most software will be identical/slower depending.


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## Mussels (Nov 6, 2017)

TheMailMan78 said:


> So I hope to be ditching my current rig (2600k) and moving on to a 1700x here soon. Has anybody done that in here, and if so what can I expect?



i went from a 3770k to a 1700, short version:

max FPS on low GPU load (so 720p gaming, old games) will be slightly lower (so 220FPS->200FPS), min FPS will be more stable, average FPS will be far more consistent especially with background tasks

proper multi threaded tasks, around double the performance


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## R-T-B (Nov 6, 2017)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Has anybody done that in here



That's crazy talk, man.  No one in this thread uses AMD.  We are just roleplaying.



> what can I expect?



Based on your avatar...  Your computer will now BE GOOD?

Seriously, I went from a 7700k to a r7 1800x and I think it was a good move.  But my workload is REALLY multithreaded with the occasional game.

In games, I'll be damned if I even noticed a difference frankly.


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## PHaS3 (Nov 6, 2017)

TheMailMan78 said:


> So I hope to be ditching my current rig (2600k) and moving on to a 1700x here soon. Has anybody done that in here, and if so what can I expect?



I went from a 3570K @ 4.6 to the 1700. All I am is perfectly happy  so I expect you can expect happiness. I run a VM 24/7, and render a lot of video for YouTube so having all the threads is good. I honestly don't know how I got by on just 4 before lol. I haven't even felt the urge to OC yet, apart from a one off to 3.8GHz "just to test", and apart from pushing my RAM to 2666, since its so fast and stable as is. 

I reckon you'll be happy


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## Mussels (Nov 6, 2017)

my only advice is throw a fan on your VRM's if you're pushing 1.3v+ through the CPU, on both MSI boards i've tested got pretty toasty without active cooling


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 6, 2017)

This rig is for gaming. From what y'all are saying it sounds like it won't make much of a difference. Any future game like star citizen gonna use this thing proper?


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## PHaS3 (Nov 6, 2017)

TheMailMan78 said:


> This rig is for gaming. From what y'all are saying it sounds like it won't make much of a difference. Any future game like star citizen gonna use this thing proper?



I've played and seen the following (same GPU as with 3570K):

BF1: same or better perf
BF4: same or better perf
Dawn of War 3: quite noticeably better
CS:GO: No noticeable decline in perf... but I don't look for 999FPS in this, I reckon its always over 120FPS
Starcraft 2: Same / no noticeable difference
Homeworld Remastered: Same / no noticeable difference

The outlier that I didn't own when I had my 3570K is PUBG... It runs, its more limited by my 970 than anything else I reckon. 

Hope that helps a little...


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## Mussels (Nov 6, 2017)

TheMailMan78 said:


> This rig is for gaming. From what y'all are saying it sounds like it won't make much of a difference. Any future game like star citizen gonna use this thing proper?



the extra cores wont make a huge difference for current gaming - future gaming it probably will


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## Johan45 (Nov 9, 2017)

YautjaLord said:


> @TheMailMan78: If it helps, i'm considering buying i7 7700K & GA-AZ270-Gaming-K7 + 2nd HAF X just to compare to my current rig (see my sys specs), but regardless, i'd still urge you (for a lack of a better word) to get one; heck, you can compare your 2600K & this beast in both productivity & gaming. I would.  Cheers.
> 
> @Johan45: Which of these 2 you'd recommend:
> 
> ...



I will always pick Samsung over Hynix regardless of the system. If you can afford them get them. On Ryzen it just takes the headaches out and they're much easier to work with. Aim for a final speed of 3200-3400 at CL14 with stock or close to stock voltage. Soc shouldn't need to be over 1.1V


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## YautjaLord (Nov 10, 2017)

Johan45 said:


> I will always pick Samsung over Hynix regardless of the system. If you can afford them get them. On Ryzen it just takes the headaches out and they're much easier to work with. Aim for a final speed of 3200-3400 at CL14 with stock or close to stock voltage. Soc shouldn't need to be over 1.1V



The guy from Science Studios have same mobo as me (AX370 Gaming K7), in his 1700X OC'ing vid he pairs it with the HyperX Predator modules & it works fine throughout the entire vid; yeah, i know it's a lottery, but it's just the way these modules look you know - yeah,  it looks like the menace inside any rig.  Maybe i'll buy 3200-3600 CL14/CL16 Trident Z, Vengeance LED Reds & Predator for comparison's sake. Will take me some time tho. 

P.S. Gigabyte's AM4 quick OC'ing tutorial says you can safely crank up the SoC voltage to 1.35v, vCore to 1.4/1.5v, VDD18 (whatever that is, will have to do research ) - 2.1v & VDDP (research again) to +0.2v.


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## Mussels (Nov 10, 2017)

YautjaLord said:


> The guy from Science Studios have same mobo as me (AX370 Gaming K7), in his 1700X OC'ing vid he pairs it with the HyperX Predator modules & it works fine throughout the entire vid; yeah, i know it's a lottery, but it's just the way these modules look you know - yeah,  it looks like the menace inside any rig.  Maybe i'll buy 3200-3600 CL14/CL16 Trident Z, Vengeance LED Reds & Predator for comparison's sake. Will take me some time tho.
> 
> P.S. Gigabyte's AM4 quick OC'ing tutorial says you can safely crank up the SoC voltage to 1.35v, vCore to 1.4/1.5v, VDD18 (whatever that is, will have to do research ) - 2.1v & VDDP (research again) to +0.2v.



at those numbers, you better have everything under water. and i do mean everything - those are high voltages.


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## YautjaLord (Nov 10, 2017)

Mussels said:


> at those numbers, you better have everything under water. and i do mean everything - those are high voltages.



Even RAM? You just need to adjust CPU voltages: SoC, vCore & VDD18 are all CPU-related, correct me if i'm wrong. I think i will need that EKWB's GB Aorus AM4 monoblock (CPU + VRM) later down the road, tho. 

Plus, all these RAM modules i'll buy at some point next year, i'll leave the task of "OC'ing" to K7's XMP option & forget. lol Thanx regardless, cheers.


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## Mussels (Nov 11, 2017)

YautjaLord said:


> Even RAM? You just need to adjust CPU voltages: SoC, vCore & VDD18 are all CPU-related, correct me if i'm wrong. I think i will need that EKWB's GB Aorus AM4 monoblock (CPU + VRM) later down the road, tho.
> 
> Plus, all these RAM modules i'll buy at some point next year, i'll leave the task of "OC'ing" to K7's XMP option & forget. lol Thanx regardless, cheers.



yep bucket of water on the RAM too


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## YautjaLord (Nov 11, 2017)

Mussels said:


> yep bucket of water on the RAM too



lol wtf? The "I wanna see him sleep with fishes, not to eat 'em" GTA III-style?  Not sarcastic. Actually you know what? That reminds me something i seen in Google images some time ago:






Sorry for OT, but you asked for it, Mussels. lol jk  

P.S. One thing is given tho: it'll take quite a large amount of moneyz cash & time to build something like that for me.


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## grunt_408 (Dec 17, 2017)

Count me in


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## Johan45 (Dec 17, 2017)

Looks good, nice and tidy


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 17, 2017)

Guess count me in also......


Here are some videos
https://1drv.ms/v/s!Ake0N4nyPmK3hdlfuMHz9HMt7CeC0A

https://1drv.ms/v/s!Ake0N4nyPmK3hdldz_Ku5KkEaxvlsg


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## psyko12 (Dec 18, 2017)

Nice systems!

I finally got my system to go full Aorus!  and I'm loving the beta bios F7B with p-states for Gigabytes AX370-Gaming-K7. (Have flashed official F10 as a back up bios). Like what they say don't fix what it ain't broke. I'll be sticking with the F7b as it's ok for months now. And  I'm a bit of lazy to run tests again hahaha!

[Gfx Card now is from a GByte Gaming G1 GTX970 to an Aorus GTX 1080 (oc'd)]







Good to see some phanteks brothers in here too!


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 18, 2017)

So question, has anyone got above 4.3ish ghz on a Ryzen 7 or 5?
Just finished another R5-1600x build today and went to see how far it could go and it jumped just above 4.4, with a voltage bump but nothing dramatic. It ran Prime95-64bit for a solid 20mins stable without going above 70C. I realize it's silicon-lottery, but it would be interesting to know if this is rare or more common.


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## R-T-B (Dec 18, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> So question, has anyone got above 4.3ish ghz on a Ryzen 7 or 5?
> Just finished another R5-1600x build today and went to see how far it could go and it jumped just above 4.4, with a voltage bump but nothing dramatic. It ran Prime95-64bit for a solid 20mins stable without going above 70C. I realize it's silicon-lottery, but it would be interesting to know if this is rare or more common.



On the 7 series, I would say anything 4.1+ is rare.  That sounds rather incredible.


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## Mussels (Dec 18, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> So question, has anyone got above 4.3ish ghz on a Ryzen 7 or 5?
> Just finished another R5-1600x build today and went to see how far it could go and it jumped just above 4.4, with a voltage bump but nothing dramatic. It ran Prime95-64bit for a solid 20mins stable without going above 70C. I realize it's silicon-lottery, but it would be interesting to know if this is rare or more common.



i cant even break 3.9, either my boards garbage (it was cheap) or my CPU is


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## R-T-B (Dec 18, 2017)

Mussels said:


> i cant even break 3.9, either my boards garbage (it was cheap) or my CPU is



Really, I expect that is more average than unusual.


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## Mussels (Dec 18, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Really, I expect that is more average than unusual.



when i see someone reaching 4.3, the sadness occurs

hell i'ma disable SMT and see how she goes


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## GoldenX (Dec 18, 2017)

Soon, a R3 1200 owner.


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## Mussels (Dec 18, 2017)

well, SMT off made zero difference to max OC. 3.9 it is!

Only reason i think my board may be weak, is that the reported voltage is much higher at idle than at load, in things like Aida64 and CPUz. I am OCing an 8 core CPU which is about as extreme as it gets on AM4, but its still a little annoying that the vdroop controls boost idle as well as load (no P-state clocking here)


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## Recca29 (Dec 18, 2017)

My 1700 doesn't boot above 3.65 GHz. 
Tried 3.9GHz with high voltage but was unstable while crunching, so i reduced the clocks and now running strong with 3.6 GHz with almost stock voltage 24x7 as a crunching and folding machine.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 18, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> On the 7 series, I would say anything 4.1+ is rare.  That sounds rather incredible.


Yeah this one got to 4ghz on stock voltage, 4.2 with a minor voltage bump, 4.3 with a bit more and 4.4 with a bit more still. I was more than kinda surprised by this and almost wanted to keep it and get him another one. But oh well.


Mussels said:


> i cant even break 3.9, either my boards garbage (it was cheap) or my CPU is


The 1400 is binned in a certain grouping, so the headroom is expected to be lower unless you give it a lot more voltage. Still, the 3.9ish ceiling is nice for that chip. Don't feel bummed. I was just shocked by this 1600x! And he's been gaming on it all evening. Upgraded him from an FX-4130, recycling his GTX960. The video card seems the bottleneck now but only just. The CPU performance literally quadrupled.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 18, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> Yeah this one got to 4ghz on stock voltage, 4.2 with a minor voltage bump, 4.3 with a bit more and 4.4 with a bit more still. I was more than kinda surprised by this and almost wanted to keep it and get him another one. But oh well.
> 
> The 1400 is binned in a certain grouping, so the headroom is expected to be lower unless you give it a lot more voltage. Still, the 3.9ish ceiling is nice for that chip. Don't feel bummed. I was just shocked by this 1600x! And he's been gaming on it all evening. Upgraded him from an FX-4130, recycling his GTX960. The video card seems the bottleneck now but only just. The CPU performance literally quadrupled.



i have a 1700 and a 1400, both seem to hit the exact same 3.9 ceiling (both were on my water at the time of testing)

Now that i realised his was a 1600X, thats probably it - the X chips seem to OC higher


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## Gmr_Chick (Dec 18, 2017)

Sign me up! 





Crosshair VI Hero, Sapphire Nitro+ RX 580 8GB, Team T-Force Delta R 8GB (2x4) CL 15 2400MHz RAM, and the start of the show, the Ryzen 5 1600. I'm going to be recycling the 1TB hard drive and my 850W Seasonic from the build in my system specs. Also going to be using that crazy cooler that comes with the 1600. Makes the one that came with my Haswell i3 look like a dinghy, lol. All I need now is the OS and maybe an SSD to put said OS and my two most frequently played games on and I'll be set!


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## _JP_ (Dec 18, 2017)

I'm going to build an R3-based rig for my dad...just trying to figure-out if the 30€ extra the 1300X costs over the 1200 is worth it. 

EDIT: Build is simple, just something to bring the man to 2017
CPU: R3 1200 or 1300X
RAM: A 8GB kit that doesn't break the bank...a good 16/32GB kit later on. I think I will match mine so that I can reuse it when I upgrade my dad's, so G-Skill Trident-Z F4-3200C16D-8GTZB are on sight
HDD: S850EVO 500GB + Random 1TB 3.5'' drive
GPU: MSI NV Geforce 750Ti LP
MoBo: MSI A320 PRO-VH Plus
PSU: Silverstone ST45SF (450W-SFX)
ODD: I think I have a random SATA LG
Cooling: My 1700's Wraith Spire, an F8 PWM PST on top and a 60mm on the bottom
Case: NOX CoolBay Slim


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 18, 2017)

Mussels said:


> i have a 1700 and a 1400, both seem to hit the exact same 3.9 ceiling (both were on my water at the time of testing)


The general near-universal rule with electronics is that they can tolerate up to 10% extra voltage 24/7. Have you tried bumping the voltage that far or are you being more reserved for safety(no one can blame you if you are)?


Mussels said:


> Now that i realised his was a 1600X, thats probably it - the X chips seem to OC higher


That could be it. The "non-X" models have never gone above 4ghz so far, but all do get there.. Haven't built one yet that doesn't. Maybe I'm being more liberal with the voltage than is wise for this series of CPU.

As stated above, I'm general pushing the voltage up incremental until hitting the 10% threshold. So the next question would be, is anyone staying lower or going higher?

With Intel's lines, generally they can be pushed above 10% and will work 24/7 but will eventually fail. However that not always true. AMD's lines have been less forgiving in this area because they were being pushed to the limits already out of the box. With Ryzen being so new, pushing it to extremes for rigs running 24/7 on client PC seems a bit foolish, so I haven't been. But again because it's still so new, the boundaries of what could be considered "extremes" is still somewhat an unknown.


_JP_ said:


> I'm going to build an R3-based rig for my dad...just trying to figure-out if the 30€ extra the 1300X costs over the 1200 is worth it.


Considering the choice of mobo, I would go for the 1300X. It'll be worth the extra money in the long run, unless you plan to upgrade to R5 or R7 later.


----------



## Johan45 (Dec 18, 2017)

It's not easy with Ryzen to even determine what the VID is. My 1600X, when pushed on a single core with P95, will pull up to 1.487V left on auto. Now following your guideline and add 10%, that's just a tad high isn't it? With CPB disabled it gets up to 1.35 ish on all cores so that 10% puts it up to it's CPB levels of almost 1.5V


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## theonek (Dec 18, 2017)

I'm in too. Sadly, the old am3+

 gigabyte mobo still looks better....


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 18, 2017)

theonek said:


> I'm in too. Sadly, the old am3+View attachment 94962 gigabyte mobo still looks better....


I like ASRock series of AM4 boards. They have been easier to work will and OC on than the Asus, MSI and Gigabyte offerings.


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## Mussels (Dec 19, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> The general near-universal rule with electronics is that they can tolerate up to 10% extra voltage 24/7. Have you tried bumping the voltage that far or are you being more reserved for safety(no one can blame you if you are)?



methinks 1.5v was not conservative (according to software readings anyway) when i was aiming for 4.0

at current 3.9, Going by HWInfo readings, 1.40v idle, 1.34V load

CPU-Z gives me 1.40v raising to 1.42v, so its rather hard to say if im dropping or raising at load :/


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 19, 2017)

I'm running seemingly stable at 2400mhz and 32gbs of ram. Think I should go 16gb at 2666?


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 19, 2017)

Mussels said:


> methinks 1.5v was not conservative (according to software readings anyway) when i was aiming for 4.0 at current 3.9, Going by HWInfo readings, 1.40v idle, 1.34V load CPU-Z gives me 1.40v raising to 1.42v, so its rather hard to say if im dropping or raising at load :/


The stock voltage for this 1600x was 1.45v and that's about average for all of the R5's and R7's I've built. Depending on the stock voltage for your chip, go for 1.46v or even 1.47v if such is within 10% and see what you get. For an R5-1400, that should be achievable and safe. Let us know how it goes.


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## Mussels (Dec 19, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> The stock voltage for this 1600x was 1.45v and that's about average for all of the R5's and R7's I've built. Depending on the stock voltage for your chip, go for 1.46v or even 1.47v if such is within 10% and see what you get. For an R5-1400, that should be achievable and safe. Let us know how it goes.



it'd be nice to know what my actual voltage is, since different software read it totally differently :/


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 19, 2017)

Mussels said:


> it'd be nice to know what my actual voltage is, since different software read it totally differently :/


I've been going on bios readings after updating to the most current FW.


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## Mussels (Dec 19, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> I've been going on bios readings after updating to the most current FW.



i think part of the problem is variations between brands/boards, i've seen some people going on about 1.25v 4ghz, but then their boards have P state stuff, boost voltages and so on

ohoho, i found a beta BIOS for my mobo, although it was on the german MSI forums... has raven ridge support and AGESA 1.0.7.2
File is attached, its for the MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon - zero gurantees on this one and what it will do to your system.

Final Summit ridge (ryzen) BIOS - supposedly tweaks RAM voltages somehow
https://mega.nz/#!ZRtwTBCQ!5jEQidDmPxhW4J_hQSC0LAKvB_x2DcS9mMd_81Nd3T0

Current latest Raven Ridge bios - cant flash back to older BIOS from this, if google translate was correct
https://mega.nz/#!lN1nmLyT!OYhaJ8G_PbTMseo1F86cdw2tnnBdeNpR6IKZzLWTesU

All these BIOS and info are from This page


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## Sempron Guy (Dec 19, 2017)

Had to dial down my memory from 3400mhz ( through bclk ) to 3333mhz cause of bclk overclocking issue with M.2 ssds. Recently upgraded to a Samsung Evo M.2 250gb ssd and it won't play nice with bclk oc.


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## R-T-B (Dec 19, 2017)

The prettiness of your workstation there makes mine suddenly feel quite bland.


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## Mussels (Dec 19, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> The prettiness of your workstation there makes mine suddenly feel quite bland.



i have one giant messy setup, and one compact clean setup. it makes me happy having both, which makes me feel bipolar


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## Sempron Guy (Dec 19, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> The prettiness of your workstation there makes mine suddenly feel quite bland.



give  it a few months, it's only clean now cause I felt the need to take a few pictures of it, cleaned


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## _JP_ (Dec 19, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> Considering the choice of mobo, I would go for the 1300X. It'll be worth the extra money in the long run, unless you plan to upgrade to R5 or R7 later.


I am planning to upgrade it with my 1700 once 2nd gen shows up, so 1200 it is. Cash is a factor too, right now 
EDIT: Then again, the 1300X has less market adoption which means better resale value in the future...oh how I despise ROI outside business...


TheMailMan78 said:


> I'm running seemingly stable at 2400mhz and 32gbs of ram. Think I should go 16gb at 2666?


You're running 4 sticks then? Thne two sticks for 2666Mhz.
Use this as a rule of thumb:





Start from here and work your way upwards 
Thyphoon your DIMMs if you're unsure whether they're single or dual rank. (it makes a difference)


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 19, 2017)

_JP_ said:


> Then again, the 1300X has less market adoption which means better resale value in the future...oh how I despise ROI outside business...


You don't have to sell it. Keep it as a spare, "just in case". It's what I do.


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## _JP_ (Dec 20, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> You don't have to sell it. Keep it as a spare, "just in case". It's what I do.


Future will tell, but order made on the 1300X


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## Mussels (Dec 20, 2017)

or just buy a cheap board next year and make a second PC 

one is never enough!


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## grunt_408 (Dec 21, 2017)

Stock 1700 score





3.6GHz 1700 scroe


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## Mussels (Dec 21, 2017)

Gotta go fast! (3.9ghz)


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## grunt_408 (Dec 21, 2017)

I am too scared only stock cooling


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 21, 2017)

grunt_408 said:


> I am too scared only stock cooling


The Cooler Master Hyper T4 is an excellent cooler and allows for good OCing. Most of the Ryzen builds I've done lately have been with that cooler and it handily takes Ryzen in stride. It's inexpensive as well at about $25USD. It's only downside is that the fins are a bit low to the board, so if you have RAM with taller heat-spreaders, you may wish to go with the Hyper 212 EVO, at $30USD, which has higher clearance, but is also a taller unit and requires more headroom in a case. Links below for both.
Hyper 212 EVO https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Hyper-RR-212E-20PK-R2-120mm/dp/B005O65JXI
Hyper T4 https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Contact-Heatpipes-RR-T4-18PK-R1/dp/B00BSKY1M4
Aussie prices shouldn't be too far off.


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## cdawall (Dec 21, 2017)

The hyper t4 is a piece of garbage that easily gets overwhelmed


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 21, 2017)

cdawall said:


> The hyper t4 is a piece of garbage that easily gets overwhelmed


Citation please. From my experience, every one of them I've purchased performs very well and allow for excellent OCing.


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## cdawall (Dec 21, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> Citation please. From my experience, every one of them I've purchased performs very well and allow for excellent OCing.



Citation of what it is common knowledge that heat load over about 140-160w overloads it and temps skyrocket under load. You are welcome to look around for a review with any 8 core chip from the 5960x to 8350 to 1700x and up. Hell I have one on a 3820K and it can't even keep it cool at 4.3ghz with two good SP fans on it.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 21, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Citation of what it is common knowledge that heat load over about 140-160w overloads it and temps skyrocket under load. You are welcome to look around for a review with any 8 core chip from the 5960x to 8350 to 1700x and up. Hell I have one on a 3820K and it can't even keep it cool at 4.3ghz with two good SP fans on it.


Interesting. Have had zero problems. It performs well and allows for OCing. What TIM are you using? I've used both the included TIM, Arctic Silver and as well as a couple others. The TIM included actually seems to work the best, oddly.


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## cdawall (Dec 21, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> Interesting. Have had zero problems. It performs well and allows for OCing. What TIM are you using? I've used both the included TIM, Arctic Silver and as well as a couple others. The TIM included actually seems to work the best, oddly.



I had anything from IC diamond to noctua to coolermaster goop. This is a commonly known thing.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 21, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I had anything from IC diamond to noctua to coolermaster goop. This is a commonly known thing.


Ok, your experience was bad, mine was overwhelmingly good. I must be wrong. Moving on.


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## cdawall (Dec 21, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ok, your experience was bad, mine was overwhelmingly good. I must be wrong. Moving on.



I am far from the only person who has seen that issue with the T4, the thermal capacity is quite low for it. I have installed them in customer builds as well and each and every time they were a disappointment. They actually cannot keep a 5960x/6950x cool at stock. Those systems would come back in BSoD'ing. I assume all of your experience is with lower wattage chips? Certainly nothing over 140w.


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## Mussels (Dec 21, 2017)

Tested my 1700 with some cores disabled, at 4C8T i managed to get into BIOS at 4.275GHz 1.45v

i noticed mine crashes at 76C, so i think heat is whats stopping me OCing further (and sanity from going above 1.45v)

Lex: what CPU you use changes how coolers perform drastically, dropping 4 cores off my 1700 took 30C off my temps - if you're running a lower wattage CPU, your results are gunna be totally different to cda's since he's specifically mentioned the high core count, high wattage chips


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 21, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I am far from the only person who has seen that issue with the T4, the thermal capacity is quite low for it. I have installed them in customer builds as well and each and every time they were a disappointment. They actually cannot keep a 5960x/6950x cool at stock. Those systems would come back in BSoD'ing. I assume all of your experience is with lower wattage chips? Certainly nothing over 140w.


None of the Ryzen AM4 CPU's are rated higher than 95w. Even pushing them to 4ghz isn't going push them to far above 115w. Don't know what more to tell you, but my experiences have been good.


Mussels said:


> Tested my 1700 with some cores disabled, at 4C8T i managed to get into BIOS at 4.275GHz 1.45v i noticed mine crashes at 76C, so i think heat is whats stopping me OCing further (and sanity from going above 1.45v) Lex: what CPU you use changes how coolers perform drastically, dropping 4 cores off my 1700 took 30C off my temps - if you're running a lower wattage CPU, your results are gunna be totally different to cda's since he's specifically mentioned the high core count, high wattage chips


That's just it, been using the T4 on R7/R5 build's as well as i5/i7 build's and have not had any issues with heat or thermal-throttling under load, with an OC applied. The temps have never exceeded 70c on a 1800x as long as the fan profile is allowed to max out, which does get a bit on the noisy side of things. To be fair the Hyper 212 keeps the temps lower but the fans being used by both are the same so the fan noise is about the same as well. The Intel builds didn't perform much differently, but then most of those have been quad cores. With the 6/8 core variants I use something with 6 heatpipes. But as this is a Ryzen thread, and I've been referencing experiences with Ryzen based builds.


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## cdawall (Dec 21, 2017)

70C at 4ghz is a bit of a joke the wraith cooler can do better than that. That is also within a couple of degrees of it becoming unstable, just out of temps.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 21, 2017)

cdawall said:


> 70C at 4ghz is a bit of a joke the wraith cooler can do better than that. That is also within a couple of degrees of it becoming unstable, just out of temps.


70c, MAX not constant, running Prime95 64bit on all threads stable for an 8 hour test run is bad? I don't think so. If that is why people think the T4 is lacking, then the difference of perspectives is academic. It does the job I ask of it and does is well.

FYI, the 4.4ghz on the R5 I mentioned earlier? On a Hyper T4 and it never broke 70c. IIRC it never got above 65c. So there is that.


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## cdawall (Dec 22, 2017)

You keep going to lower and lower wattage/core count chips. I was quite specific when I said what was killing them. The 8 core chips can quite easily surpass 140w which is the absolute max the t4 can even think of handling. I have my own batch of expectations and the t4 was a giant let down when the hyper 212 cost with in dollars of it and was sometimes cheaper. The hyper 212 is the absolute minimum I recommend in an air cooler.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 22, 2017)

cdawall said:


> You keep going to lower and lower wattage/core count chips. I was quite specific when I said what was killing them.


You seemed to have missed the part where I mentioned the use of R7. So let me be specific. I have used the Hyper T4 on a Ryzen 7 OC'ed to 4ghz with a modest voltage bump and did NOT encounter any stability problems.


cdawall said:


> The 8 core chips can quite easily surpass 140w which is the absolute max the t4 can even think of handling.


I have never seen that level of wattage use from any of the Ryzen systems I have built. Intel chips are rated at that wattage level stock, but not Ryzen. They are all 65w or 95w parts. Even when OC'd they have never topped 120w.


cdawall said:


> I have my own batch of expectations and the t4 was a giant let down when the hyper 212 cost with in dollars of it and was sometimes cheaper. The hyper 212 is the absolute minimum I recommend in an air cooler.


You're expectations are your own. They do not apply to everyone.

So again, your experience was bad, mine was overwhelmingly good. I must be wrong. Let's move on.


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## GoldenX (Dec 22, 2017)

R3-1200 ordered with a MSI B350M PRO-VDH, and some cheap 2x4GB 2400MHz Crucial RAM. For now I'm recycling my HD7750 and a notebook 1TB HDD, I need a VGA port for my monitor and the APUs are still far away.


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## cdawall (Dec 22, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> You seemed to have missed the part where I mentioned the use of R7. So let me be specific. I have used the Hyper T4 on a Ryzen 7 OC'ed to 4ghz with a modest voltage bump and did NOT encounter any stability problems.
> 
> I have never seen that level of wattage use from any of the Ryzen systems I have built. Intel chips are rated at that wattage level stock, but not Ryzen. They are all 65w or 95w parts. Even when OC'd they have never topped 120w.
> 
> ...



4ghz is a mild overclock. Under load and overclocked I have easily surpassed 120w. That wasn't even a prime95 load, just AMD's little rendering benchmark, but hey what do I know about Ryzen I only had  a prerelease review chip before w1z even got his, burned through 3 Asus Crosshair boards as those of us in that prerelease crowd found out that the BIOS was fubar. Had one of the first Ryzen chips pushing 3800+ mhz memory and personally pushed multiple other boards to the point where the mosfets shut down.

Yes let us live up to your mild expectations. You are the only person on this forum with any experience with anything.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 22, 2017)

GoldenX said:


> R3-1200 ordered with a MSI B350M PRO-VDH, and some cheap 2x4GB 2400MHz Crucial RAM. For now I'm recycling my HD7750 and a notebook 1TB HDD, I need a VGA port for my monitor and the APUs are still far away.


That's a good setup. Are you going to stick with Radeon for a GPU or were you thinking of an NVidia option?


cdawall said:


> 4ghz is a mild overclock.


At least we can agree on one thing..


----------



## notb (Dec 22, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> So again, your experience was bad, mine was overwhelmingly good. I must be wrong. Let's move on.


Just a common-sense note for you. @cdawall is talking about his experience with PCs he has. You're talking about builds you sell. So no offense, but the fact that you had no problems with T4 during few hours of testing is not that convincing.
And I'm afraid you're wrong about Ryzen's power consumption and temperatures. Ryzen 7 has been shown to pull 140-150W easily under load and with some pretty pedestrian OC. And AMD TDP is something different than Intel's TDP.
The 70*C you've mentioned is just way too high for this chip. Again: you can't base your judgement on experience with Intel. Intel's chips tolerate much higher temperatures.

Remember that temperature will increase with time: as both the cooler and TIM will slowly lose their efficiency.
And even before that happens, dust gathering on the cooler can "provide" additional 5*C as well (and even 10*C for top-down coolers, easily).
I presume it's winter where you live at the moment. What happens in summer, when the ambient room temperature increases by 10*C or so?
Because of things like this you ought to be seeing solid temp margin on a new setup: 15-20*C at least, IMO. And you left none. 

Not to mention that even if that Ryzen 7 survives, the T4 will be really stressed and the fan will be at max RPM a lot => high noise.
General rule of thumb for cheaper coolers: get those designed for significantly higher power consumption. Personally, I try not to go below 150%, more or less.
This isn't necessarily true for expensive ones, since they're built to operate properly also near the limit.

The first T4 review that google returns:
http://www.dvtests.com/cooler-master-hyper-t4-test-and-review/
Check the graphs at the bottom. And it's on an Athlon X4 620, so TDP=95W.


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## GoldenX (Dec 22, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> That's a good setup. Are you going to stick with Radeon for a GPU or were you thinking of an NVidia option?



I want a Pascal or Volta in the far future, but that means getting a new digital output monitor (this one is 7 years old and still strong), while the Vega IGP offers VGA. Before that I have to get a proper HDD, a M.2 SSD, more better clocked RAM, maybe an UPS, and I'm dry with just that CPU+MoBo+RAM combo.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 22, 2017)

notb said:


> Just a common-sense note for you. @cdawall is talking about his experience with PCs he has. You're talking about builds you sell. So no offense, but the fact that you had no problems with T4 during few hours of testing is not that convincing.


8 hours under Prime95 load is enough to prove stability for anybody's needs. And I run Furmark for 8 hours after that to test any GPU OC applied, if needed. Your conclution is not "common" sense. Don't care if a few people are not "convinced" by the methodologies used for qualifying a build as stable and ready for customer use. They work for what my clients need and they stay stable.


notb said:


> And it's getting a bit worse when you're just clearly wrong about Ryzen's power consumption and temperatures. Ryzen 7 has been shown to pull 140-150W easily under load and with some pretty pedestrian OC.


I have a wattage measurement unit and have calculated the differences. The most I have witnessed a Ryzen 7 pull through a circuit was 118watts. And that was OC'd. Granted, I haven't measured every Ryzen system built as such an effort would be a waste of time. And for the record, the 65w and 95w specs quoted earlier are from AMD.
https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-7-1800X#product-specs
https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-5-1400#product-specs
Oh, and before anyone goes there, I know the difference between TDP and electrical wattage. We are discussing a cooling solution and in that context only the TDP matters.


notb said:


> And AMD TDP is something different than Intel's TDP.


It sure is, isn't it.


notb said:


> The 70*C you've mentioned is just way too high for this chip.


Where are you getting that? The Ryzen line doesn't even start to thermal throttle until it hits 90C and shuts down completely 100c. 70c for brief moments is not a problem on any level.


notb said:


> Again: you can't base your judgement on experience with Intel. Intel's chips tolerate much higher temperatures


Ok, good to know. Thanks for the tip.


notb said:


> Remember that temperature will increase with time: as both the cooler and TIM will slowly lose their efficiency.


That depends greatly on the TIM being used. Some don't degrade at all. And Arctic Silver 5 actually gets better as it sets. That has proven many times.


notb said:


> Also, at the moment it's winter where you live. What happens in summer, when the ambient room temperature increases by 10*C or so?


Ok, and what about the systems I built this past summer? None of them had or are having any problems.


notb said:


> Not to mention that even if that Ryzen 7 survives, the T4 will be operating near the limits => high noise.


The fans only got noisy *under load*. Not worried.


notb said:


> General rule of thumb for cheaper coolers: get those designed for significantly higher power consumption. Personally, I try not to go below 150%, more or less.


Again, Thanks for the tip. However, gonna keep going with the methodologies that have served both me and my clients well for as long as I can remember, which is more than 3 decades. Yeah..

So again, some have had experiences that were bad, mine have been good. I must be doing something wrong. Let's move on.


GoldenX said:


> I want a Pascal or Volta in the far future, but that means getting a new digital output monitor (this one is 7 years old and still strong), while the Vega IGP offers VGA. Before that I have to get a proper HDD, a M.2 SSD, more better clocked RAM, maybe an UPS, and I'm dry with just that CPU+MoBo+RAM combo.


Given your choice of CPU, you're likely to get the best bang for buck out of a GTX 1060 6GB. With a lot of games that CPU is likely to bottleneck the GPU and a 1070 and 1080 will see diminishing returns. That's not to say that the 1070 or 1080 would not give great performance on games that are GPU bound. Yet giving your CPU a modest OC will help a lot in games that are more CPU dependent. And the money you save going with a 1060 would allow you to get a good sized SSD to fit into the M2 slot on your new mobo.


----------



## notb (Dec 22, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> 8 hours under Prime95 load is enough to prove stability for anybody's needs.


No, it's not.
Putting aside how relevant torture testing a new PC is for stability during next 3+ years, why not test for at least 24h straight? That used to be the common recommendation back in a day when I was still having fun with OC. And back then AMD CPUs were called XP - like experience. I presume FX has some connection with fireworks. Not sure about Zen, but you clearly need a lot of patience to setup this thing properly. ;-)


> I have a wattage measurement unit and have calculated the differences. The most I have witnessed a Ryzen 7 pull through a circuit was 118watts.


I can't argue with that. But others have experienced higher values. So hey... maybe the Ryzen's your clients are using will also reach that 140W one day? What then?


> And for the record, the 65w and 95w specs quoted earlier are from AMD.


Of course they are. But just the fact AMD says 95W doesn't mean that the CPU won't pull more.


> That depends greatly on the TIM being used. Some don't degrade at all. And Arctic Silver 5 actually gets better as it sets. That has proven many times.


All matter degrades. All TIM lose efficiency, all cooler fans become louder with time. No way around it.


> Ok, and what about the systems I built this past summer? None of them had or are having any problems.


I don't know. Luck? Relatively cool season?
What about the degradation? Will they work well next summer? 


> Again, Thanks for the tip. However, gonna keep going with the methodologies that have served both me and my clients well for as long as I can remember, which is more than 3 decades. Yeah..


I don't see how your experience from 30 years ago could be useful with modern PCs. They're totally different. But what you should have learned during those 3 decades is not to believe in TDP on consumer CPUs. 
And BTW: based on earlier discussions I did fall under impression that you're much younger (like mid 20s, max 30). 


> So again, some have had experiences that were bad, mine have been good. I must be doing something wrong. Let's move on.


Well.. we're in fact talking about cooling. So if I were you, I'd base my decisions on the bad experience and just be happy that they aren't mine.
I'm in the business of looking for worst case scenario, so at least for me this seems pretty natural.


----------



## cdawall (Dec 22, 2017)

notb said:


> don't see how your experience from 30 years ago could be useful with modern PCs. They're totally different. But what you should have learned during those 3 decades is not to believe in TDP on consumer CPUs.



Hey now I am sure his experience in punch cards and mainframes applies very well into a ryzen build. The "I have been doing this since WW nam" is a joke to me.


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 22, 2017)

Why is there no Zen in my Zen garden?

I come here to share builds, not fight over their eccentricities.  This is not pleasing.

Since there is no Zen, here is my Ryzen pain today:

Built a new ASRock build for myself, it wouldn't clock above 2.2Ghz.  It turns out if you set a fixed voltage, this is a known issue on the latest BIOS of the ASRock Taichi.  Nice one.   A downgrading we go...


----------



## Mussels (Dec 22, 2017)

you guys arguing over the temps and clocks: dont forget the 20C offset between X and non X chips.

Without specifying the amount of cores, and X or not every time you make these arguments you're comparing teslas with squirrels and driving me nuts.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 22, 2017)

notb said:


> No, it's not.
> Putting aside how relevant torture testing a new PC is for stability during next 3+ years, why not test for at least 24h straight? That used to be the common recommendation back in a day when I was still having fun with OC. And back then AMD CPUs were called XP - like experience. I presume FX has some connection with fireworks. Not sure about Zen, but you clearly need a lot of patience to setup this thing properly. ;-)


3, 4, 5 years. The systems I build rarely fail and when they do it's the power supply most of the time. There have been OC's have have failed after a few years, but it's usually the extreme OC's and by then most people are good for an upgrade anyway.


notb said:


> I can't argue with that. But others have experienced higher values. So hey... maybe the Ryzen's your clients are using will also reach that 140W one day? What then?


Are you saying that CPU's use more power over time? Never seen this. Ever. It just doesn't happen. Neither Intel nor AMD CPU's will ever do that. Otherwise 486's, Pentiums, K6's and XP's would all be non-functional because they'd draw to much power. Sorry, the laws of physics don't work that way. 


notb said:


> Of course they are. But just the fact AMD says 95W doesn't mean that the CPU won't pull more.


Of course it'll draw more power when overclocked, but 50% to 110% more in a modest 10% to 30% OC state? Sorry, never seen that either. It just doesn't happen.


notb said:


> All matter degrades. All TIM lose efficiency, all cooler fans become louder with time. No way around it.


Because of the chemistry involved, it would take decades for currently available quality TIM's to degrade that much. Older stuff, ok it does and has, but it take more than 10 years. Ever taken apart an old Pentium 1 system and looked at the TIM? It's hard and crusty, but it's still doing the job it was intended to do.


notb said:


> I don't know. Luck? Relatively cool season? What about the degradation? Will they work well next summer?


Luck?  Most of my clients are repeat customers or referrals from  same. If the equipment being sold was failing left and right as is implied it would, there would not be nearly as much business as I do.


notb said:


> I don't see how your experience from 30 years ago could be useful with modern PCs. They're totally different.


You don't understand that experience gained is valuable? Or is it that you don't understand how it is relevant to the Ryzen platform? Overclocking has evolved over time but is essentullly achieved by the same methodology; Change the clock speed. If unstable try a higher voltage. If CPU gets hot, cool it. Repeat until maximum stable OC is reached.


notb said:


> But what you should have learned during those 3 decades is not to believe in TDP on consumer CPUs.


Why not? When a CPU manufacturer tests and retests the products they make and state specifications, they're not just slapping a random value in the spec sheet willy-nilly. It is because they've tested those values and have stated them for reference so all of their potential customers understand what to expect.


notb said:


> And BTW: based on earlier discussions I did fall under impression that you're much younger (like mid 20s, max 30).


LOL! I'm young at heart and I'll admit to being the occasional jackass. But yeah, I'm a grandfather if that helps you out.(Saying that just made me a little sad.. But I love my grandkids!)


notb said:


> Well.. we're in fact talking about cooling. So if I were you, I'd base my decisions on the bad experience and just be happy that they aren't mine.
> I'm in the business of looking for worst case scenario, so at least for me this seems pretty natural.


Right. And all I'm trying to point out with this issue(and at this point I'm sorry I brought up the Hyper T4) is that someone was looking for a good cooler and I recommended one that had given good performance. Sure there are better coolers out there, but they come at a higher price. The T4 is a lower profile cooler which will fit into smaller cases, which is the impression that I got reading about the goal of the system build. So there we are.


----------



## notb (Dec 22, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Hey now I am sure his experience in punch cards and mainframes applies very well into a ryzen build. The "I have been doing this since WW nam" is a joke to me.


Well... I wouldn't be that hard on him. Electronics work pretty much the same, so I find it comforting that he has a wattmeter and all that.
But as far as CPUs and overclocking it's a vastly different reality... Even compared to a decade ago, when some really massive performance jumps were possible. Simple fact is: we got much closer to silicon limits and since so many CPUs will OC on their own (boost, auto tuning etc), you really need a good reason for manual tinkering. And if you're going hard on your CPU, you have to be careful.

So apart from the general discussion about temperatures and coolers, I'm pretty amazed that he's doing heavy overclocked PCs for other people - with no guarantee whatsoever that they'll take care of dust, that they know how to read PC temperatures and so on...


R-T-B said:


> Why is there no Zen in my Zen garden?


There isn't much Zen in Zen anyway.
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today 5-y&q=ryzen problem,skylake problem


> I come here to share builds, not fight over their eccentricities.  This is not pleasing.


But do you share them hoping for feedback or do you share just for fun of sharing? 


> Since there is no Zen, here is my Ryzen pain today:
> Built a new ASRock build for myself, it wouldn't clock above 2.2Ghz.  It turns out if you set a fixed voltage, this is a known issue on the latest BIOS of the ASRock Taichi.  Nice one.   A downgrading we go...


At least it'll save the battery! Or polar bears. Or something.


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 22, 2017)

> At least it'll save the battery! Or polar bears. Or something.



I prefer to save my hair.

Bah!  The old bios does it too.







I know, it's only for benching as I'd never really run my Ryzen at 1.45v (even if it does clock to 4.2) but WTF ASRock?  I want my fun.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 22, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Why is there no Zen in my Zen garden? I come here to share builds, not fight over their eccentricities.  This is not pleasing.


Sorry man, I'll chill out. Sometimes it's hard to tell when someone is genuinely misunderstanding/misinformed or if they're just plain trolling.


R-T-B said:


> Since there is no Zen, here is my Ryzen pain today:
> Built a new ASRock build for myself, it wouldn't clock above 2.2Ghz.  It turns out if you set a fixed voltage, this is a known issue on the latest BIOS of the ASRock Taichi.  Nice one.   A downgrading we go...


That is bizarre. ASRock boards are usually rock solid. And on a few ASRock boards, I've locked the voltage on several builds. That problem didn't happen. Are you adjusting the multiplier to match? Maybe a FW update is needed from ASRock?


notb said:


> But as far as CPUs and overclocking it's a vastly different reality... Even compared to a decade ago, when some really massive performance jumps were possible. Simple fact is: we got much closer to silicon limits and since so many CPUs will OC on their own (boost, auto tuning etc), you really need a good reason for manual tinkering. And if you're going hard on your CPU, you have to be careful.


That is true. And this is the evolution of OCing I mentioned. We are getting very close to the limits of Silicon. However, the game will be changing soon as the use of other metalloids such as Germanium, Arsenic, Antimony and Tellurium are being heavily explored. It's only a matter of time til a break-through is made in one of those areas. Not everyone wants an OC. But for those that do, teaching them how and why things work helps them understand the importance of proper care.


notb said:


> So apart from the general discussion about temperatures and coolers, I'm pretty amazed that he's doing heavy overclocked PCs for other people - with no guarantee whatsoever that they'll take care of dust, that they know how to read PC temperatures and so on...


But I teach them about proper maintenance and the importance of such. I literally drill it into them, if needed. The benefits of OCing can be remarkable, but it comes with diligent responsibility, as you clearly seem to know. In 2002 when the breathable foam came out, I was an early adopter because of the clear benefits of such use. That was when OCing for client's started to be more commonplace. When using such, a can of air and a vacuum was all that one needed to keep things cool and clean.


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 22, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> That is bizarre. ASRock boards are usually rock solid. And on a few ASRock boards, I've locked the voltage on several builds. That problem didn't happen. Are you adjusting the multiplier to match? Maybe a FW update is needed from ASRock?



Happens above 1.35v only, so not much of a concern for good ol' daily clocks, but very weird.


----------



## _JP_ (Dec 22, 2017)

My Dad's parts are ready


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 22, 2017)

If and when I change my cooler it will be a custom water loop..


----------



## Sempron Guy (Dec 22, 2017)

you guys are arguing over a 70c max load temp at 4ghz? I'm on a custom loop and breaks that 70c easily in WCG at 3.9ghz


----------



## cdawall (Dec 22, 2017)

Sempron Guy said:


> you guys are arguing over a 70c max load temp at 4ghz? I'm on a custom loop and breaks that 70c easily in WCG at 3.9ghz



What is wrong with your loop? The custom loop I built didn't even come close to that and it had a 1070 in it.


----------



## Sempron Guy (Dec 22, 2017)

cdawall said:


> What is wrong with your loop? The custom loop I built didn't even come close to that and it had a 1070 in it.



30-32c ambient


----------



## Johan45 (Dec 22, 2017)

Merry Christmas, here's a fun song by some local talent


----------



## cdawall (Dec 22, 2017)

Sempron Guy said:


> 30-32c ambient



That is about 8C higher than what I was dealing with makes more sense lol


----------



## ozomax1997 (Dec 22, 2017)

im looking at upgrading my PC some time next year, is the price difference between a 1600 and a 1600x justifiable on a budget?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 22, 2017)

ozomax1997 said:


> im looking at upgrading my PC some time next year, is the price difference between a 1600 and a 1600x justifiable on a budget?


That depends on your budget and what your computing needs are. If you're not going to be doing much/serious gaming, go for a lower end or used video card and drop the extra money into the CPU. Also, prices are going to change next year as the new gen of Zen CPU's from AMD are going to hit the market, which will force the price of current gen ZEN lower. The best thing you can do right now is to save as much money you're willing to spend and then when you're ready price out parts at that time. If you're on a smaller budget, don't be afraid to look at used parts to save money.


----------



## notb (Dec 23, 2017)

cdawall said:


> That is about 8C higher than what I was dealing with makes more sense lol


Which only supports the case discussed earlier: what will happen to a 70*C Ryzen setup when it's July, not December...

I think people really underestimate the fact that there are 8 cores under the bonnet. And a lot of efficiency and temp praise is based on poor utilization right now, yet usually they're accompanied by hopes that when software manufacturer catch up these CPUs will really shine...


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 23, 2017)

I only built mine to go to the PUB G


----------



## GoldenX (Dec 29, 2017)

Ryzen 1200 arrived, the biggest star are the Crucial Ballistix Sport modules, humble 2400MHz, stable at 3200 (with higher timmings).
Testing if 3900 @ 1.4v is stable, so far it is.


----------



## NdMk2o1o (Dec 29, 2017)

GoldenX said:


> Ryzen 1200 arrived, the biggest star are the Crucial Ballistix Sport modules, humble 2400MHz, stable at 3200 (with higher timmings).
> Testing if 3900 @ 1.4v is stable, so far it is.


What are the temps like on that stock cooler at 3.9 1.4v?


----------



## GoldenX (Dec 30, 2017)

NdMk2o1o said:


> What are the temps like on that stock cooler at 3.9 1.4v?


65 ºC under normal full loads, 80 with IBT.


----------



## GoldenX (Dec 31, 2017)

The "efficiency hole" in Ryzen is huge, I need 1,4v for 3900-3950MHz, but just 1,25v for 3800.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 31, 2017)

GoldenX said:


> The "efficiency hole" in Ryzen is huge, I need 1,4v for 3900-3950MHz, but just 1,25v for 3800.


Amd parts have always been fine running 1.3-1.6 volts, i noticed that across all of AMDs product stack.

I wonder how well a scythe ashura would handle a 1800X or Ryzen+ or the 1950X...


----------



## _JP_ (Dec 31, 2017)

1300X boots, very pleased with the motherboard, being budget-level, has surprised me with the layout and the features.
Holidays in the way, no pics or extensive testing, but I'll get to that soon 

EDIT: I stubbornly learned that the screws on the stock cooler don't really have much travel to reach the backplate's holes, which were too low. You DO have to mount it on the box outside.


----------



## Johan45 (Jan 5, 2018)

After many changes, I've finally settled on my final build for the HTPC. Pulled out the ASUS and went MSI.


----------



## GoldenX (Jan 5, 2018)

White motherboards look so nice.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 5, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> White motherboards look so nice.



I miss when there were Green, Red, Blue PCBs, most are now all black or with red accents or RGB...


----------



## xorbe (Jan 5, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> The "efficiency hole" in Ryzen is huge, I need 1,4v for 3900-3950MHz, but just 1,25v for 3800.



This is called "hitting the wall".  Mine does 3.9 @ 1.18v, but 4.0 needs more than 1.3v (I don't know how much more because my cheap board smacks the chip down to 1550 after 1.3v+)


----------



## _JP_ (Jan 5, 2018)

I guess the lack of aesthetics was the aesthetic itself back then...
Speaking of which, since retro is such a crowd pleaser these days, ASUS could go for a yellow PCB, gold heatsink, Gigabyte go full RGB, plastic-wise, on light blue PCB, ASRock full green, à lá 939 era, when Athlon reigned supreme.


----------



## Johan45 (Jan 6, 2018)

_JP_ said:


> I guess the lack of aesthetics was the aesthetic itself back then...
> Speaking of which, since retro is such a crowd pleaser these days, ASUS could go for a yellow PCB, gold heatsink, Gigabyte go full RGB, plastic-wise, on light blue PCB, ASRock full green, à lá 939 era, when Athlon reigned supreme.



Like the old DFI LP NF4 looked good in the dark


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 6, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Like the old DFI LP NF4 looked good in the dark


NF2 Ultra-B too lol


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 6, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> The "efficiency hole" in Ryzen is huge, I need 1,4v for 3900-3950MHz, but just 1,25v for 3800.


How are you gauging voltage? And did you get it to 4ghz?


----------



## GoldenX (Jan 6, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> How are you gauging voltage? And did you get it to 4ghz?


Motherboard sensor, or the MSI software, CPU-Z is not very reliable.
Couldn't reach 4GHz at 1,4v, and I don't want to go higher on a cheap motherboard and a wraith stealth.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 6, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> Motherboard sensor, or the MSI software, CPU-Z is not very reliable.
> Couldn't reach 4GHz at 1,4v, and I don't want to go higher on a cheap motherboard and a wraith stealth.


Ok, so not the bios then. I've learned that the voltages the bios report are not always one par with the actual voltages used, thus the question. If you have a better cooler, I would say you'd be ok with 1.42 or 1.43 volts. However, 3.9ghz is a damn good OC for that CPU. Even if you don't want to push 4ghz, a better cooler would be a good idea for OCing. Your stats say that you're in Argentina. Are parts expensive down there?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 6, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> Motherboard sensor, or the MSI software, CPU-Z is not very reliable.
> Couldn't reach 4GHz at 1,4v, and I don't want to go higher on a cheap motherboard and a wraith stealth.



Utilize openhardware monitor


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 6, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> Utilize openhardware monitor


That's still in beta. How stable is it?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 6, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> That's still in beta. How stable is it?



Never crashed or locked up on me and I had Ryzen Blender running with CPUz open and that tool open, neat factor is it has an overlay you can change vital info such as temps or clocks, idk if it can detect fps.

That tool is how i figured out my cpu voltage creeps up from the hard set I have of 1.467 or was it 1.476 and increases to 1.5024 under heavy load, under normal its either at minimum or somewhere in between


----------



## GoldenX (Jan 6, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ok, so not the bios then. I've learned that the voltages the bios report are not always one par with the actual voltages used, thus the question. If you have a better cooler, I would say you'd be ok with 1.42 or 1.43 volts. However, 3.9ghz is a damn good OC for that CPU. Even if you don't want to push 4ghz, a better cooler would be a good idea for OCing. Your stats say that you're in Argentina. Are parts expensive down there?



VERY expensive, and those free AM4 brackets from Cooler Master don't get here, had to sold my 212+ because of that. If I manage to get a better cooler, I'll aim for 4GHz, since AFAIK according to AMD, up to 1,45v is safe with an increased but tolerable degradation. Considering that with 1,25v I can do 3,8GHz at 55º, I'm pretty happy with that at the moment.

Had to manually set the SoC voltage to 1v, the motherboard wants 1,15v for 3200MHz, and it's not necessary.

I'll try open hardware monitor, I remember using it with my Phenom II 980.

ED: openhardwaremonitor doesn't detect my motherboard sensors. Only CPU usage.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 6, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> VERY expensive, and those free AM4 brackets from Cooler Master don't get here, had to sold my 212+ because of that. If I manage to get a better cooler, I'll aim for 4GHz, since AFAIK according to AMD, up to 1,45v is safe with an increased but tolerable degradation. Considering that with 1,25v I can do 3,8GHz at 55º, I'm pretty happy with that at the moment.
> 
> Had to manually set the SoC voltage to 1v, the motherboard wants 1,15v for 3200MHz, and it's not necessary.
> 
> ...



Okay it must have not been updated recently cpu-z has their own and it is just called hardware monitor


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 6, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> Never crashed or locked up on me and I had Ryzen Blender running with CPUz open and that tool open, neat factor is it has an overlay you can change vital info such as temps or clocks, idk if it can detect fps. That tool is how i figured out my cpu voltage creeps up from the hard set I have of 1.467 or was it 1.476 and increases to 1.5024


Cool, giving it a try.


----------



## Johan45 (Jan 6, 2018)

I use HWinfo64, seems pretty acurate to me


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 6, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> I use HWinfo64, seems pretty accurate to me


That's actually my go-to utility, but it's not been giving what seems to be perfectly accurate voltage data on the Ryzen platforms, which differs from the bios readings and differs from AMD's own utility. I tend go with the bios reading as a general rule.


----------



## GoldenX (Jan 6, 2018)

Ryzen Master is pretty good, but it's QT interface kills performance while it's open.


----------



## YautjaLord (Jan 9, 2018)

Back from the sorta dead......  See the sys specs, in a meantime here's a final pic of a build, by this weekend the benchmarks will follow, aside from AORUS Graphics Engine giving my *.dll error everything works like a charm:




This thing gives me 221fps in AvP D3D11 benchmark (1920x1080, VSync Off, 1xAA, max everything else) & 75fps in Heaven 4.0  (1920x1080, tessellation Extreme, 8xAA, textures @ Ultra, VSync Off), if you all want i'll drop the scores of these 2 here as well. Ryzen 7 1700X @ 3.7GHz gave a score of 1635cb. Cheers.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 9, 2018)

Replace the file that is missing or erroring out


----------



## Johan45 (Jan 9, 2018)

I gave up on it myself.Precision X does the same thing it needs DX files that would normally be in Win7 but not in 10 just an all around PITA. MSI AB works very well for my Giga RX 580 XTR


----------



## psyko12 (Jan 9, 2018)

Just out of curiosity posting it here. My system is running ok, but ram is configured as I O I O.

Here's the story...

x370 Gaming K7
1700x
GTX 1080
G.Skill 16 gb Trident Z non RGB 3200 mhz cl16 (hynix mdies)
Corsair hxi 750

Anyone here encountered debug code 0D (zero delta) on boot up?

Heres what happened. I just did my routine clean up for the rig. Tidied up cables. Unplugged 24 pin to mobo and gpu pcie power so I can clean them. Put her all back. No boot just 0D in debug. System was running fine for months now.

Reset cmos no go... My ram config was 0 I 0 I
Removed 1 ram it booted. 0 I 0 0 but everything is default.
Put back ram 0 I 0 I and applied cpu oc. Saved and rebooted. Then applied ram oc. The settings that worked before. Rebooted. Back to no post and code 0D. Whenever I change a setting for ram in 0 I 0 I it goes to 0D and cant run xmp/oc on ram.
Strangely I 0 I 0 on ram config computer works without issue and passes all stress tests.
Is my ram or board or even processor be broken? This is the 1st time I encoutered this.

As of now computer is up and mining 3 days...

Any input will do. Thanks.

P.s. I 0 I 0. Is my rough diagram for ram in mobo.

Thanks


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 9, 2018)

psyko12 said:


> Just out of curiosity posting it here. My system is running ok, but ram is configured as I O I O.
> 
> Here's the story...
> 
> ...



It's just the way that board and ram work together, you can alway let gigabyte tech support know that, this is why its so important to follow manual directions. I presume thats a GA board you have?


----------



## YautjaLord (Jan 10, 2018)

@psyko12: Replace it with Samsung BDie RAM, no issues whatsoever after that. Yeah, simple as that. 

After i read Hynix mdie in your post, i came to the only logical solution, had one in a form of G.Skill Ripjaws V, Hynix die, dual rank. After i switched to G.Skill Flare X, set it @ 3200MHz (with the help of K7's XMP function), completely forgot bout any issues whatsoever. Had the same or similar stuff, lots of instabilities with either 1 or 2 RAM modules, now? Barely, if no issues at all. Cheers. 

P.S. 0D is like FF methink, does the RAM or CPU debug LED also on? Means it's reserved and/or waiting for responce from any of the afforementioned.


----------



## Peter Evans (Jan 10, 2018)

Okay; hello and wellcome to all the Guys n Girls on thread.

Upgarded to Ryzen 5 1400, MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon some Vengeance LPX 2x4GB 3200 C16 sticks and Gaming RX580 8Gb; all other parts in sys-spec are from previous build.

Initial experience with MSI X370 GPC on shipped bios v.12 was....; no OC on Cpu and no A-XMP either. Was able to set memory to 2667@Default timings and Volts manually, but no stable OC on Cpu.
Immediately updated bios to v.19 and A-XMP works flawlessly; using either profile 1@3066 and 2 @3200 default timings. Have been able to set in bios Cpu@3.8Ghz default Volts ( 1.285 in MSI CC and HWINFO shows .011 less ) but was not convinced stable, so set Volts at 1.325 LLC ( 4-8 work best for me, although 1-4 also work but not enough testing ) and everthing else @Default.

Very happy with my ryZen experince so far; had X4 860K + 16GB DDR3 + R9 380; so feel a huge difference in little things; load times and general sys responsiveness etc.  The Ryzen 5 1400 is an excellent choice with 4C+8T, and while mine on this board wont go past 3.9 ( @ 1.39-1,41v, was never happily stable ) everthing else is really good.  Memory will do 3333@ 16-16-16-32@1.39v with no issues; cannot get 3667 to be stable yet ( does boot into bios though just not stable in windows ). Hoping to crash the 4.0 Ghz party at some point; even if my R5 1400 is recalcitrant!!!!!  Not sure the extra volts and heat is worth it though ( I know its not, but still......!!!Meh )

The lack on BLC-Clock on X370 GPC is a niggle really; I would only overclock my bits further anyway..........., so probably a good thing. Any questions please ask away; have onlr read maybe first 10 or so pages of thread so will eventually get around to reading them all.  

Proper GEEK, so feel free to take-the-piss and whatever; all in good fun though, so nobody take anything i say or comment on personally. Lurked here and other forums for decades and only occasionally motivated to sign up and comment. Last year was spectacular for the re-amergance of AMD into High-end again and this year looks to be even better; already thing of upgrading Cpu  when refresh comes out later on, Maybe 4C+8T Raven Ridge APU ( in the vain and forlorne hope that explicit-multi-adapter EVER becomes more than a point on a summary table or slide-deck!!!!!! ), or a really cheap 17/1800 X.


----------



## psyko12 (Jan 10, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> It's just the way that board and ram work together, you can alway let gigabyte tech support know that, this is why its so important to follow manual directions. I presume thats a GA board you have?





YautjaLord said:


> @psyko12: Replace it with Samsung BDie RAM, no issues whatsoever after that. Yeah, simple as that.
> 
> After i read Hynix mdie in your post, i came to the only logical solution, had one in a form of G.Skill Ripjaws V, Hynix die, dual rank. After i switched to G.Skill Flare X, set it @ 3200MHz (with the help of K7's XMP function), completely forgot bout any issues whatsoever. Had the same or similar stuff, lots of instabilities with either 1 or 2 RAM modules, now? Barely, if no issues at all. Cheers.
> 
> P.S. 0D is like FF methink, does the RAM or CPU debug LED also on? Means it's reserved and/or waiting for responce from any of the afforementioned.



Apparently it's a bug with bios and how it hates memory settings or xmp profiles. 
Clearing the cmos via the jumper made it work again and I was able to put up the same old overclocking settings that I have before.
Gahhhhh... Either I'll wait for the x470's or replace ram (w/c here in our place costs as much as this board! LOL)

Anyway thanks for the quick response!


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 10, 2018)

psyko12 said:


> Apparently it's a bug with bios and how it hates memory settings or xmp profiles.
> Clearing the cmos via the jumper made it work again and I was able to put up the same old overclocking settings that I have before.
> Gahhhhh... Either I'll wait for the x470's or replace ram (w/c here in our place costs as much as this board! LOL)
> 
> ...



Ive only noticed GA boards being a little more sensitive to memory...


----------



## theonek (Jan 10, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> Ive only noticed GA boards being a little more sensitive to memory...


Not only Gigabyte mobos are sensitive to ram. My Dominator couldn't run above 2666 on asrock mobo...


----------



## YautjaLord (Jan 10, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> Replace the file that is missing or erroring out



The .dll file i talk about, according to what i googled is vcredist_x64/86. Once i clicked on it (Aorus Graphics Engine), it gave the "mfc120u.dll is missing" n shit.  I googled for it, says it's either vcredist 2013, or 2008 that needs to be installed, laughed when saw the "vcredist is a complete mess & this utility's not worth a f*ck" in some forum or reddit, came to the only conclusion MSI Afterburner is the one to use. Thanx regardless, will keep searching for solution to this problem.


----------



## Johan45 (Jan 10, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> The .dll file i talk about, according to what i googled is vcredist_x64/86. Once i clicked on it (Aorus Graphics Engine), it gave the "mfc120u.dll is missing" n shit.  I googled for it, says it's either vcredist 2013, or 2008 that needs to be installed, laughed when saw the "vcredist is a complete mess & this utility's not worth a f*ck" in some forum or reddit, came to the only conclusion MSI Afterburner is the one to use. Thanx regardless, will keep searching for solution to this problem.


For future reference when you NEED to get something working that relates to the Visual C++ Redistributable Packages from MS I always install the x86 and x64 packages for whatever year it's complaining about


----------



## YautjaLord (Jan 11, 2018)

Ditto. Both x86 & x64 versions of vcredist 2008 & 2010 actually. I think either AGE's bitching about lack of eXtreme Graphics Engine, or GB programmers coded AGE out of their asses.  Thanx regardless.


----------



## psyko12 (Jan 11, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> Ditto. Both x86 & x64 versions of vcredist 2008 & 2010 actually. I think either AGE's bitching about lack of eXtreme Graphics Engine, or GB programmers coded AGE out of their asses.  Thanx regardless.



AGE sucks @$$ ahah, altho I've no issues with missing DLL's but sometimes it likes to "lose" some of it functions, a missing button here and there. I've only used it to set the colors on the gpu aorus logo and forget about it


----------



## YautjaLord (Jan 11, 2018)

I know right?  As much as i hate issue, i still want to get this one-click OC mode (1674Mhz base/1822Mhz boost) out of my GTX 1070 G1. This thing is rev. 2.0 btw, comes with RGB Fusion stead of RGB Spectrum like it's rev. 1.0 "sibling".  And it's still faster than 1070 Founders edition, and it's still overclockable, and fruits and vegetables......  Think i'm gonna try installing that eXtreme Graphics Engine after work.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 11, 2018)

I would personally installed 2008 2010 and 2013 redistributables not that replaces any of them I will take the older ones and put them in alongside those two if necessary as long as it doesn't replace them LOL



theonek said:


> Not only Gigabyte mobos are sensitive to ram. My Dominator couldn't run above 2666 on asrock mobo...



The only reason I had mentooned this is because I had 1 that was finnicky with ram, my brothers ASRock wasnt though.


----------



## YautjaLord (Jan 11, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> I would personally installed 2008 2010 and 2013 redistributables not that replaces any of them I will take the older ones and put them in alongside those two if necessary as long as it doesn't replace them LOL



Ditto again. 2008, 2010, 2013 & 2017, each both x86 & x64. You laugh @ this? Me even more, fact is all other GB apps (App Center, RGB Fusion, @bios, DAC-UP2) work without any issues. This thing? Coded out of the ass!


----------



## GoldenX (Jan 11, 2018)

You are forgetting 2005, 2012 and 2015.


----------



## YautjaLord (Jan 11, 2018)

DL'd MSI Afterburner yesterday, works like charm, plenty of skins, can adjust voltage with it, you name it - if AGE doesn't work like that after i'll sort this vcredist issue out, MSI Afterburner it is. For Gigabyte GTX 1070 G1! 

P.S. 2 hours of Prime95 Blend and/or Small FFTs torture will suffice for stability test? Will run it tomorrow.

P.P.S. The one mfc120u.dll file that was missing was Extreme Graphics Engine, i actually need both Extreme Graphics Engine _and _ Aorus Graphics Engine. Forget it, MSI Afterburner it is til i find something better.


----------



## Johan45 (Jan 11, 2018)

Ryzen has a weak spot with the memory so I set custom test in P95 Ver 29.3 with 13000MB of ram. Depends on the amount you're using I have 16 GB so I set it slightly above 75% coverage. After that runs for a while I set Unigine heaven on a loop tests your cooling and also the SOC portion of the CPU


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## PHaS3 (Jan 11, 2018)

I recently ditched Afterburner for straight up WattMan. Having a much better experience, though I haven't tried to push anything insane, core @ 1450, mem @ stock 2100 (8400)MHz.

Gave my Ryzen baby a clean today:


----------



## theonek (Jan 11, 2018)

PHaS3 said:


> I recently ditched Afterburner for straight up WattMan. Having a much better experience, though I haven't tried to push anything insane, core @ 1450, mem @ stock 2100 (8400)MHz.
> 
> Gave my Ryzen baby a clean today:
> 
> ...


That Sapphire should mine!


----------



## PHaS3 (Jan 11, 2018)

My last PC died in what may or may not have been a mining related incident (although another appliance in the house died at the same time, so it may not have been). That kinda put me off 

That said, I did try throw some ETH mining on it, but I didn't fiddle long past seeing that it was only doing ~15MHps while I had read that ~25 is the out the box standard for similar cards. Honestly, though, I am not that keen on it since the (mis)fortune that killed my last PC and gave me this Ryzen 

On topic question for the Ryzen folk: Has your motherboard vendor released an AGESA 1.0.0.7 BIOS update for your board yet? MSI haven't yet...


----------



## R-T-B (Jan 11, 2018)

PHaS3 said:


> My last PC died in what may or may not have been a mining related incident (although another appliance in the house died at the same time, so it may not have been). That kinda put me off
> 
> That said, I did try throw some ETH mining on it, but I didn't fiddle long past seeing that it was only doing ~15MHps while I had read that ~25 is the out the box standard for similar cards. Honestly, though, I am not that keen on it since the (mis)fortune that killed my last PC and gave me this Ryzen
> 
> On topic question for the Ryzen folk: Has your motherboard vendor released an AGESA 1.0.0.7 BIOS update for your board yet? MSI haven't yet...



The cardinal rule in crypto is to not invest anything you can't afford to lose...  gaming hardware included.  Smart choice.


----------



## YautjaLord (Jan 11, 2018)

As promised, pics of any app, by this evening i'll fill this post with as much attachments for your viewing, these'll include Carmageddon: Max Damage & AvP game & D3D11 benchmark among the rest.


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## _JP_ (Jan 12, 2018)

PHaS3 said:


> On topic question for the Ryzen folk: Has your motherboard vendor released an AGESA 1.0.0.7 BIOS update for your board yet? MSI haven't yet...


I was wondering that too and checked last week...since we have the same board, I guess we'll have to wait 
Last time I used my desktop was like, 3 months ago, are you using the most recent UEFI? v54 or v55? Is it stable/good?


----------



## YautjaLord (Jan 12, 2018)

AvP D3D11 benchmark score:




God, i still love this game.  250+fps in game with these settings:








Cinebench R15 next & that's it, or atleast until i'll have stable _*everything*_  @ 4.0GHz/1.4v.


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## theonek (Jan 12, 2018)

_JP_ said:


> I was wondering that too and checked last week...since we have the same board, I guess we'll have to wait
> Last time I used my desktop was like, 3 months ago, are you using the most recent UEFI? v54 or v55? Is it stable/good?


For asrock not released yet. Look, who has Gigabyte, will be lucky i guess...


----------



## infrared (Jan 12, 2018)

I updated the bios on my C6H the other day, "Update to AGESA 1071 for new upcoming processors." It hasn't made any difference to OC limits and voltage requirements if that's what you're hoping for.


----------



## Johan45 (Jan 12, 2018)

infrared said:


> I updated the bios on my C6H the other day, "Update to AGESA 1071 for new upcoming processors." It hasn't made any difference to OC limits and voltage requirements if that's what you're hoping for.


Not splitting hairs but I thought the most recent AGESA had rolled over again back to 1.0.0.1a
http://www.overclock.net/t/1624603/rog-crosshair-vi-overclocking-thread/32610#post_26542960


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## PHaS3 (Jan 12, 2018)

I used to love AvP. The game was better than the reviews at the time said. I guess it was a bit nostalgic for me too, I loved the old AvP2. 

I hadn't seen that about AGESA reverting back to 1.0.0.1 anywhere...


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## infrared (Jan 12, 2018)

I haven't seen that, I thought the AGESA 1071 sounded weird so just quoted from the Asus website. FAIK it could be a typo? idk.


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## Johan45 (Jan 12, 2018)

If anyone would know it would be Jon, he's in the thick of it. Apparently they don't like the number 2 ha ha


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## YautjaLord (Jan 12, 2018)

@PHaS3: I DL'd F10 EFI update from GB (AGESA 1.0.7.2a) only to see that it boot loops like a complete c*nt & "downgrade" to F4 & forget bout any - *any - *issues whatsoever. Means i will also postpone the purchase & the testing of Zen top-tier APU, what can i say. 

Cinebench R15:



Prime95 Ryzen 7 1700X @ 3.8GHz/1.3v run:




Last one will be C:MD's CarMODgeddon mode, with custom & stock/default cars. For the time being, after that same stuff @ 4.0GHz.  Cheers all. Wish me luck, i'm also recording it & edit all the vids with Lightworks, it has an option to edit & upload all this stuff to YT, despite the quite steep learning curve (atleast for me) this app looks & works like a charm.


----------



## YautjaLord (Jan 19, 2018)

Sorry for double-post.

At 3.9GHz, 1.41250v vCore, LLC @ Extreme, everything else - Auto. Prime95 (+ HWInfo64 & CPU-Z took monitoring duties) ran for about 55-56mins, just got back, none of the aforementioned, probably PC restarted, (hard reset?), add some SoC voltage a bit to the mix? Highest suggested in M.I.T is 1.1v while it's @ Auto. I wanna have stable 4.0GHz for photography & videos, plus modding in Blender, plus games, etc...... Or atleast 3.9GHz/1.41v.

P.S. Cinebench R15 gave me a score of 1713cb @ this OC. (3.9GHz/1.41v) I can post the pic if y'all want.


----------



## GoldenX (Jan 19, 2018)

From what I've seen, 1,45v is the max vCore without heavy degradation, and for the SoC, AMD says never go over 1,25v, 1,15v should be enough for anything. For DRAM voltage, the IMC can do 1,4v 24/7.


----------



## Johan45 (Jan 19, 2018)

If it just up and crashed in P95 it's likely V_core related. Typically if it's ram/IMC then it drops threads


----------



## YautjaLord (Jan 19, 2018)

Thanx guys, will go for it in an hour from now. MB sets SoC @ 1.1v when Auto, FYI.

*EDIT*

Did it, at the cost of bumping up SoC & vCore to 1.1v & 1.42v respectively, LLC still @ Extreme.




2:21h at 3.9GHz/1.42v on all 8 cores, 16 threads - this CPU is a beast.  Cinebench R15 @ same frequency (there are 2, but i give y'all the current one i did few mins ago):



If everything goes right with 4.0GHz, i'm gonna make it my 24/7 OC. Cheers all. 

*EDIT #2*

Carmageddon: Max Damage, CarMODgeddon, custom car (AlexTSK's SDT Suppressor):










One of the games that occupy my time, an antidote to all racing games, where racing is for wimps, according to original 1997 classic manual. Yeah i have the original + Splat Pack as well, in a form of Carmageddon Max Pack, in my Steam's Games library.


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## NdMk2o1o (Jan 24, 2018)

Asrock have released new BIO's with updated Agesa support for Raven Ridge, I updated from the previous latest revision 3.10 to 3.20 which was a bridge bios for 4.40 which is the offical raven ridge supported bios, some new options have appeared in the bios and XMP seems to be working off the bat in my system setting my 2 different sticks of 2800 8GB dual rank to 2800 14.15.15 1T without me having to manually change any timings or change any voltages which I needed to do previous to this bios version for them to be stable. Hopefully I can hit 2933 which has eluded me somewhat before now, not OC the CPU as of yet to see if there is any difference but I will be testing that later tonight.


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## YautjaLord (Jan 25, 2018)

@NdMk2o1o: I have Flare X 3200MHz CL14 2x8GB, set this frequency with XMP function of my Aorus X370 Gaming K7 & forgot, works so far like a charm & stable @ that. CPU (Ryzen 7 1700X) is @ 3.9GHz/1.r2v vCore, idles @ 29 degrees C, but that's because it's cooled by EKWB's EK-Kit X360. Just my 2 cents/pennies/insert your fav currency format/etc.... 

Funny thing happened tho: for about 3 days whenever i launch any 3DMark test with my GTX 1070 G1 MSI Afterburner OC profile, it (3DMark) abrupts prematurely. All tests work from start to finish without any hickups @ graphics card's default/factory clocks, but whenever i launch this OC profile (+125MHz core/GPU, 8208MHz VRAM, 65% fan speed, etc....), can't finish even any of the demos, Fire Strike demo is the only exception.


----------



## Johan45 (Jan 25, 2018)

You might want to revisit your GPU OC then. Sounds like it's not stable enough for the harder tests.


----------



## trickson (Jan 25, 2018)

I just replaced my OLD Q9650 Intel setup of 10 years with a new Ryzen 3 1300X put it on a GA-AB350M-Gaming 3 MB and straight out of the box stock cooling 3.72GHz! Amazingly fast CPU. Still have an old video card so I am limited on that front getting a better card this week ( nothing over 150 bucks ). Once I get better cooling and more RAM I will start to clock it up see if I can get 4Ghz that would be cool!


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 26, 2018)

trickson said:


> I just replaced my OLD Q9650 Intel setup of 10 years with a new Ryzen 3 1300X put it on a GA-AB350M-Gaming 3 MB and straight out of the box stock cooling 3.72GHz! Amazingly fast CPU. Still have an old video card so I am limited on that front getting a better card this week ( nothing over 150 bucks ). Once I get better cooling and more RAM I will start to clock it up see if I can get 4Ghz that would be cool!


You should be able to get the 1300X to 4ghz without much trouble at all. It might need a minor voltage bump, but nothing drastic.


----------



## YautjaLord (Jan 26, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> You might want to revisit your GPU OC then. Sounds like it's not stable enough for the harder tests.



Nah, it's the missing (or corrupted) SystemInfo file i learnt about, Googled for it, gave me that info; Futuremark support says it happens with any test, when Win 10 Fall Creators update installed, this thing messes with SystemInfo file or some such shit. Will do a more thorough research bout it.  Thanx regardless.

Valley might not be that demanding, even though it should be with it's lush terrain, rain & other effects, but Heaven 4.0 is still a resource hog to this day, i would prefer it over any Fire Strike, Time Spy or any other 3DMark test any day: the entire "continent" filled to the brim with DX11 tessellated goodness. Time Spy Extreme - now that would be more appropriate, (4k & DX12) but i haven't "upgraded" ($$) to Advanced edition yet, so..... 

P.S. Checked C:MD again, CarMODgeddon mode, with this GPU OC profile, runs great. Even funnier than that, it actually runs like charm after i uninstalled 3DMark in it's entirety.  Also, Time Spy Extreme reserved for multi-GPU/multicore rigs, with CPU & GPU(s) OC'd, plus one needs a 4k monitor, one i'm eyeing for now is this one - a 4k, 27" LED IPS goodness & with prices for PC components "not declining" (for a lack of a better word) i don't see myself using that particular test or 3DMark in it's entirety this week, or even next few months. Again, thanx regardless, cheers.


----------



## GoldenX (Jan 26, 2018)

You don't need a monitor of the test's resolution, 3DMark automatically does the scaling.


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## YautjaLord (Jan 26, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> You don't need a monitor of the test's resolution, 3DMark automatically does the scaling.



But i'd still want to play AvP 3/2010, C:MD, DOOM (4/2016) & rest in 4K + use Blender @ same res, UHD is yummy.  (jk bout the yummy part but you get the picture )

This monitor caught my eye for so many reasons - 4K crammed into 27" matrix, LED IPS, 178/178 degrees viewing angles, little if no ghosting, 5ms response, price is if still a little tough to stomach, but still fair, you name it, for me it just screams - have me in your life or such shit. 3DMark will have to wait til i get this baby. Hold it! How could i forget! Adjustable height, tilt, vertical views, for games & graphical editing (3DS Max, Photoshop, Blender, etc.....) - this thing just screams awesomeness for a guy like me. Hell, video editing will probably look & work like charm on this one, as well. Man, it sucks to work for a salary, but whatever it takes - by March i gotta have it in my possession.

On topic: 4.0GHz did *NOT *work for me, applied few more volts to vCore & SoC voltage - Cinebench R15 restarted the rig a bit more than halfway through. Will my EK-Kit X360 handle 1.46 or even 1.5v vCore/1.2v SoC? Oh, and RAM voltage is @ the RAM sticks 1.35v.


----------



## Super XP (Jan 26, 2018)

I finally belong in this group. With my upcoming Ryzen PC Gaming setup. Ordered it and just waiting for the shipment. 
I do have a question though, I really wanted to get the 1920X Threadripper 12-Core / 24-Threads but didn't like the 180W beside it. I rather have lower 95W in the regular Ryzens. Did I do well to avoid the Threadrippers this round? Ty

* AMD Ryzen 7 1700X 8-Core 3.4 GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) Socket AM4 - 95W
* ASRock Fatal1ty X970 Gaming X Socket AM4 w/ USB 3.1/HDMI/M.2 Ultra 32GB/s etc., (I was always ASUS ROG HardCore, but ASUS didn't impress me with AM4 boards YET,)
* G.Skill TridentZ 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200 (Will Double that to 64GB in the near future)
* Corsair Obsidian Series 450D Brushed Aluminum & Steel ATX Mid Tower Gaming Case
* Corsair Force MP500 M.2 2280 480GB PCI-Express 3.0 x4 (3000 MBps Read - 2400 MBps Write) (250K IOPS - 4KB)
--------------
* Power Supply remains the same - Corsair 750W 
* 2 x GPU's remain the same - Sapphire Radeon R9 280X 3GB & Radeon RX 580 8GB Nitro+ 
* CPU Cooler remains the same - Corsair H100 Water Cooling - ( Just might Replace 2 x 120mm Fans with high efficient Magnetic Fans by Corsair) And no more Push/Pull via 4 x 120mm fans. Because 1 died on me and its still dead, never removed it lol. Couldn't bother haha
* 2 x ASUS Gaming Monitors - Free-Sync, Razer mouse, Logitech G15 Classic gaming keyboard etc. ,all remain as is.


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## theonek (Jan 26, 2018)

Super XP said:


> I finally belong in this group. With my upcoming Ryzen PC Gaming setup. Ordered it and just waiting for the shipment.
> I do have a question though, I really wanted to get the 1920X Threadripper 12-Core / 24-Threads but didn't like the 180W beside it. I rather have lower 95W in the regular Ryzens. Did I do well to avoid the Threadrippers this round? Ty
> 
> * AMD Ryzen 7 1700X 8-Core 3.4 GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) Socket AM4 - 95W
> ...


 Oo, you, like me are upgrading from fx8350. BTW, nice choice for a mobo and cpu, me personally went to the same mobo, only the professional version and a step further with 1800x for a cpu. Well, the graphic card has to be upgraded too, as my gtx 780 grows more older for todays games, so went to 1080ti. When you assemble it, you can post results!


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## YautjaLord (Jan 26, 2018)

theonek said:


> Oo, you, like me are upgrading from fx8350. BTW, nice choice for a mobo and cpu, me personally went to the same mobo, only the professional version and a step further with 1800x for a cpu. Well, the graphic card has to be upgraded too, as my gtx 780 grows more older for todays games, so went to 1080ti. When you assemble it, you can post results!





Super XP said:


> I finally belong in this group. With my upcoming Ryzen PC Gaming setup. Ordered it and just waiting for the shipment.
> I do have a question though, I really wanted to get the 1920X Threadripper 12-Core / 24-Threads but didn't like the 180W beside it. I rather have lower 95W in the regular Ryzens. Did I do well to avoid the Threadrippers this round? Ty
> 
> * AMD Ryzen 7 1700X 8-Core 3.4 GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) Socket AM4 - 95W
> ...



'ssup you two, make me 3rd (for about ~2 months actually), only with GA-AX370 Gaming K7, rest you can see in my sys specs.

Super XP, 1700X overclocked to 3.9GHz is on par with 1800X & beating it when @ 4.0GHz, wait for 2nd gen Ryzens (Pinnacle Ridge), will be better investment. I know i will buy one along with Zen-based APU. I have really hard time not recommending the regular Ryzens over Threadrippers. Runs circles around any FXs & i7s in multithreaded applications, more than decent in any games i have, soon will test DOOM 4/2016 & Quake Champions once will purchase these 2 games. Only rant i have, if you will, is my 1700X have so far hard time hitting 4.0GHz, but i also have 1700 non-X, that one can hit that frequency easy according to multitude of YT & regular reviews, so i'm ok.  You did good, only reason to be sorry that you didn't purchased Threadrippers is either if you have unlimited amount of money or if you Linus/JayzTwoCents/Elric Phalres/etc...  jk You got multithreaded beast & more than decent gaming CPU if you have really fast RAM, TridentZ in particular. Make sure to update EFI ASAP tho, if you OC RAM, it will only get better especially in gaming, AGESA 1.0.0.6 unlocks RAM frequencies all the way to DDR4 4000MHz. Good to see you 2 here, good luck. Cheers.


----------



## Super XP (Jan 26, 2018)

That Corsair M.2 SSD should make a huge speed difference. I wanted Thtradripper just don't like power draw. I'll stick to Ryzen for now. And see if a Thtradripper 2 does better with power. 

Eventually I want 64-128 GB DDR4, and up to 32 CPU threads. Lol


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (Jan 26, 2018)

Finally got it to 4Ghz....But that voltage...


----------



## NdMk2o1o (Jan 26, 2018)

Nice single thread score, 4ghz is out of my reach on the stock wraith cooler, am sure I was able to boot at 4ghz with 1.4+ vcore but the temps are just to high on this cooler to allow me to run it at that speed 24/7, consequently I am running 3.9ghz now at a very conservative 1.325v which is fine by me


----------



## trickson (Jan 26, 2018)

OMG This CPU is just a beast! For $130.00 Dollars it is an absolute fantastic CPU! Just a beast! Can't wait to get it to 4Ghz!


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (Jan 26, 2018)

In all honesty my everyday OC is limited to 3.9ghz @ 1.375v...I was just seeing how far I could get it up to...It can do 3.9ghz all day @ 1.375v but at 3.925ghz it needs 1.425v...
I ran a few benches...no difference from 3.9ghz...I still like seeing 4ghz tho.


----------



## NdMk2o1o (Jan 26, 2018)

jmcslob said:


> In all honesty my everyday OC is limited to 3.9ghz @ 1.375v...I was just seeing how far I could get it up to...It can do 3.9ghz all day @ 1.375v but at 3.925ghz it needs 1.425v...
> I ran a few benches...no difference from 3.9ghz...I still like seeing 4ghz tho.



I hear what you're saying, I have been desperate to hit 4ghz as well just to round it up lol and yea, theres little difference performance wise, I'm hoping the Ryzen+ refresh are able to hit 4-4.2 as easy as most do 3.8ghz now. Out of interestwhat bios version are you running and has there been a new revision to support the incoming raven ridge APU's? as the last update I had enabled me to use XMP for the first time without having to change timings/voltages etc and also seems to be more stable with the CPU at 3.9



trickson said:


> OMG This CPU is just a beast! For $130.00 Dollars it is an absolute fantastic CPU! Just a beast! Can't wait to get it to 4Ghz!



4c/8t for $130 is fantastic, remember before Ryzen you would have to pay $250+ from intel for the same... You should be able to get there on the stock cooling for a short period, do you know what kind of volts it needs tohit 4ghz?


----------



## YautjaLord (Jan 26, 2018)

@Super XP: Socket TR4 motherboard makers (especially Gigabyte) went overboard with all this RGB stuff, but yeah i get what you saying - quad channel DDR4 RAM, 64 PCIe lanes, NVMe M.2 RAID, it's just this thing will chew through my salary so fast, you'll have to donate a spare kidney just to afford mobo for rig like that or some such shit.  Good luck with your purchase, test da f*ck out of it if you can/want.  Cheers.


----------



## GoldenX (Jan 27, 2018)

I can reach 4GHz @ 1,45v on my 1200, but I don't like the temps with the stock Wraith Stealth.
I did some profiles with Ryzen Master:
3800 @ 1,25v
3850 @ 1,35v
3900 @ 1,40v
4000 @ 1,45v

All four stable, but considering the efficiency of that 3800 @ 1,25v, I use that when needed (rpcs3 and cemu mostly), the rest of the time I run it at stock 3100/3450.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 27, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> All four stable, but considering the efficiency of that 3800 @ 1,25v, I use that when needed (rpcs3 and cemu mostly), the rest of the time I run it at stock 3100/3450.


That's a damn decent OC for 1.25v @3800mhz. Are you running 24/7?


----------



## GoldenX (Jan 27, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> That's a damn decent OC for 1.25v @3800mhz. Are you running 24/7?



Did use it 24/7 to test it, it's stable, with a 1.0 SoC voltage. Now I only use it if I need more CPU powa, mostly thanks to AMD terrible OpenGL drivers, they take a whole core to 100% and caps the FPS on Breath of the Wild.

Ryzen Master is excellent for that, it keeps Cool and Quiet on.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 27, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> Breath of the Wild.


CEMU?


----------



## GoldenX (Jan 27, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> CEMU?



Yep, the 1200 is perfect for it now that they added up to 5 threads, but the AMD Windows drivers are trash for OpenGL. I'm going to try on Linux where they have threading.


----------



## YautjaLord (Jan 27, 2018)

Super XP said:


> That Corsair M.2 SSD should make a huge speed difference. I wanted Thtradripper just don't like power draw. I'll stick to Ryzen for now. And see if a Thtradripper 2 does better with power.
> 
> Eventually I want 64-128 GB DDR4, and up to 32 CPU threads. Lol



If i'll go for M.2 SSD it have to be this one:






Already got 850 pro SATA III 256GB, this one ^ will have both Win 10 & Linux, mobo (GA-AX370 Gaming K7) supports it out of box according to pdf manual on their site. The only problem, it will still be "buried" (partially) under my GTX 1070 G1, but as long as it won't be fried i'm all good.


----------



## theonek (Jan 27, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> If i'll go for M.2 SSD it have to be this one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that's why i had to move away from gigabyte.....


----------



## kenkickr (Jan 28, 2018)

Here I am right now with a general bump to 3.9GHZ w/ 1.35 volts.  Running WCG and Folding without issues hitting 69-70 Celcius max.


----------



## YautjaLord (Jan 28, 2018)

jmcslob said:


> Finally got it to 4Ghz....But that voltage...



I can't have it stable in Cinebench R15 with 1.45v vCore/1.15v SoC, what cooling you got? Mine is EKWB's X360 custom water loop. 

@theonek: I still haven't seen the temps on this one, BUT - a) i have lil bro of Aorus GTX 1070 behemoth, 1070 G1, occupies "just" 2 PCIe slots stead of 3, b) the case is open 24/7, i.e. no side panel. 
I'll post the temps on this SSD here once i got it. Cheers.


----------



## Super XP (Jan 28, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> 3800 @ 1,25v



That's a nice voltage got that speed.


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (Jan 29, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> I can't have it stable in Cinebench R15 with 1.45v vCore/1.15v SoC, what cooling you got? Mine is EKWB's X360 custom water loop.
> 
> @theonek: I still haven't seen the temps on this one, BUT - a) i have lil bro of Aorus GTX 1070 behemoth, 1070 G1, occupies "just" 2 PCIe slots stead of 3, b) the case is open 24/7, i.e. no side panel.
> I'll post the temps on this SSD here once i got it. Cheers.


NZXT Kracken x41... Fan and pump set on custom with a 45mm fan on the VRMs...
I'm sure I could get this up a bit more on a good board... Board has crap VRMs.


----------



## Super XP (Jan 29, 2018)

The VRMs can make or break a nice OC. I've been running my FX8350 with a all core OC on my Asus ROG Mobo for years. So far no issues. A testament what a solid motherboard can achieve.


----------



## trickson (Jan 29, 2018)

WOW seems to me my 10 year old CPU is still able to hold it's own. It is still a viable beast of a CPU!


----------



## YautjaLord (Jan 29, 2018)

Super XP said:


> The VRMs can make or break a nice OC. I've been running my FX8350 with a all core OC on my Asus ROG Mobo for years. So far no issues. A testament what a solid motherboard can achieve.


Crosshair V Formula, the one mobo i still love how it both looks & just how reliable it was in my rig, Prime95 for 3+ hours, Blend test @ 4.5GHz, teaches you how shit should be done right from A to Z. Crosshair VI Hero - as much as i love how this mobo reviews picture it, this thing looks f*ckin hideous, i still see it's colors as something sealife regurgitated n left it unattended for unspecified amount of time. Just my 2 cents/pennies/etc....


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## Super XP (Jan 29, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> Crosshair V Formula, the one mobo i still love how it both looks & just how reliable it was in my rig, Prime95 for 3+ hours, Blend test @ 4.5GHz, teaches you how shit should be done right from A to Z. Crosshair VI Hero - as much as i love how this mobo reviews picture it, this thing looks f*ckin hideous, i still see it's colors as something sealife regurgitated n left it unattended for unspecified amount of time. Just my 2 cents/pennies/etc....



I was close to getting the Crosshair VI Hero and said Umm NO. This round by ASUS I wasn't fully impressed. To me anyway, the AM4 mobo's seemed rushed kind of. I will give the ASRock Fatal1ty a try. I assume it has equivalent ROG style quality. I owned a ASRock long long ago and was very happy back in the day when PC Gaming was 2-D if anything lol. ASUS's ROG eventually won me over with that Crosshair V Formula.



trickson said:


> WOW seems to me my 10 year old CPU is still able to hold it's own. It is still a viable beast of a CPU!


The Core 2 Quad's were a game changer for Intel. That was a great CPU line. They sure game AMD a run, which is a good thing. Love fair competition, in the end we the consumer(s) benefit.

This is my current PC Gamer. Soon to be replaced with my Ryzen 1700X. Though I have to admit, the beloved FX-8350 did well for many years, despite all the criticism. Even though AMD messed up that lineup, they are finally (Thank Goodness  ) back with solid Overall performance & PC Gaming.


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## YautjaLord (Jan 29, 2018)

Super XP said:


> I was close to getting the Crosshair VI Hero and said Umm NO. This round by ASUS I wasn't fully impressed. To me anyway, the AM4 mobo's seemed rushed kind of. I will give the ASRock Fatal1ty a try. I assume it has equivalent ROG style quality. I owned a ASRock long long ago and was very happy back in the day when PC Gaming was 2-D if anything lol. ASUS's ROG eventually won me over with that Crosshair V Formula.


I wanted to buy that Fatal1ty mobo too, b4 finally setting my sights @ & getting AX370 Gaming K7, you know what? I'm glad i did: despite the cam's flash, there's Slayer's "Raining Blood" concert running inside the rig.


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## Super XP (Jan 29, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> I wanted to buy that Fatal1ty mobo too, b4 finally setting my sights @ & getting AX370 Gaming K7, you know what? I'm glad i did: despite the cam's flash, there's Slayer's "Raining Blood" concert running inside the rig.


I had a bad experience with Gigabyte in the past with a Phenom II supporting mobo. And I never looked back at Gigabyte ever again. But that AX370 Gaming K7 does look very nice. Never really considered it B4. Hmmm, perhaps I will one day give Gigabyte a try.


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## YautjaLord (Jan 30, 2018)

Super XP said:


> I had a bad experience with Gigabyte in the past with a Phenom II supporting mobo. And I never looked back at Gigabyte ever again. But that AX370 Gaming K7 does look very nice. Never really considered it B4. Hmmm, perhaps I will one day give Gigabyte a try.



I'd use this mobo when i'll get both 2nd gen Ryzen & EKWB's AM4 monoblock, tell ya this mofo not only has Aorus LED RGB logo (will set it @ static red), but also being monoblock this thing covers both socket & VRMs, it's f*ckin humongous! They (EKWB) also have Crosshair VI Hero & X370 XPower variants of this monoblock. Coolant will also be blood red, God i love Raining Blood, ain't i?  jk Cheers.


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## trickson (Jan 30, 2018)

Super XP said:


> I had a bad experience with Gigabyte in the past with a Phenom II supporting mobo. And I never looked back at Gigabyte ever again. But that AX370 Gaming K7 does look very nice. Never really considered it B4. Hmmm, perhaps I will one day give Gigabyte a try.


So a bad experience any you ditch them? 
Gigabyte is GREAT! Love there products. I have had tons of "Bad" experiences with Thermaltake But I still buy there stuff.
I learned over the years it's not always the product that is faulty but the user that messed up. I learned and since the learning curve have broken less stuff and have had more success _NOW  _than ever before.


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## Super XP (Jan 30, 2018)

trickson said:


> So a bad experience any you ditch them?
> Gigabyte is GREAT! Love there products. I have had tons of "Bad" experiences with Thermaltake But I still buy there stuff.
> I learned over the years it's not always the product that is faulty but the user that messed up. I learned and since the learning curve have broken less stuff and have had more success _NOW  _than ever before.


With me, I don't look at it that way. lol
I bought a Gigabyte mobo and it was a DOA. I suppose this happens. So I got a replacement shipped. That one had major bios issues. Long story short, ain't going through that again. With me, screw up the 2nd time and that's it. lol

I almost written off ASUS too. This one was due to a nonsense Motherboard Bios issue, but different then the Gigabyte one. But ASUS promptly rectified the issue and it got resolved. Another indecent? Nvidia, I've written them off too. lol Companies that have been amazing so far and I continue to buy & support? 

Corsair
AMD
Sapphire
G-Skill
ASRock
CoolerMaster
LG
etc., I might take another look at Gigabyte OK, I mean it's been what? 7-10 years now?


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## theonek (Jan 30, 2018)

Super XP said:


> With me, I don't look at it that way. lol
> I bought a Gigabyte mobo and it was a DOA. I suppose this happens. So I got a replacement shipped. That one had major bios issues. Long story short, ain't going through that again. With me, screw up the 2nd time and that's it. lol
> 
> I almost written off ASUS too. This one was due to a nonsense Motherboard Bios issue, but different then the Gigabyte one. But ASUS promptly rectified the issue and it got resolved. Another indecent? Nvidia, I've written them off too. lol Companies that have been amazing so far and I continue to buy & support?
> ...


I personally hate several hardware manifacturers. Basically never liked brands like asus, asrock, sapphire, msi, oo and not to forget A-data and Kingston, and more. But how the things turned now? Always been stick to the gigabyte products until this annual update - went to perfectly strangers to me like Asrock and MSI, and the thing is - you never know when a good surprise will come out! Especially these two for mobo and videocard....


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## Super XP (Jan 31, 2018)

theonek said:


> I personally hate several hardware manifacturers. Basically never liked brands like asus, asrock, sapphire, msi, oo and not to forget A-data and Kingston, and more. But how the things turned now? Always been stick to the gigabyte products until this annual update - went to perfectly strangers to me like Asrock and MSI, and the thing is - you never know when a good surprise will come out! Especially these two for mobo and videocard....


Agreed. 
Perhaps I will try too, in this case Gigabyte.


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## trickson (Jan 31, 2018)

3.8GHz (in the BIOS) no voltage increase yet.


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## YautjaLord (Jan 31, 2018)

@trickson @Super XP: Soltek, ASUS, Gigabyte & AsRock - these are the firms that made mobos i had (ASUS being the one i bought & owned most ). Prior to buying AX370 Gaming K7 i had AsRock's Fatal1ty 990FX Killer - loved it, shame they don't make graphics cards, would be really awesome. Don't stick to one brand, surprise yourselves, that's the moto. 

@trickson: i used 1.25v vCore for 3.7GHz, 1.35v for 3.8GHz. Love that CPU & mobo, 2h of Prime95 @ 3.7GHz/1.25v & kept working long after it, no BSODs, no crashes, just plain f*ckin awesome. Cheers.


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## GoldenX (Jan 31, 2018)

trickson said:


> 3.8GHz (in the BIOS) no voltage increase yet.


I think that is some kind of auto voltage increase by the motherboard. Stock should be @ 1,00-1,10v


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## trickson (Jan 31, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> I think that is some kind of auto voltage increase by the motherboard. Stock should be @ 1,00-1,10v


I'm not sure about that, I always overclock in the bios and I haven't touched the voltage yet. so maybe if the MB has some built in feature I don't know about.


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## GoldenX (Jan 31, 2018)

trickson said:


> I'm not sure about that, I always overclock in the bios and I haven't touched the voltage yet. so maybe if the MB has some built in feature I don't know about.


Most nowdays do, the only way to be sure is check the stock voltage and set it fixed in bios.

Ok, now that the 3DMark 11 scores leaked, that IGP is a 92% better than my 7750, seriously doubting if I should sell the 1200+HD7750 and go for a 2400G, or wait for the Zen2 APUs in the next years.


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## dhklopp (Jan 31, 2018)

I'll be joining the club over the weekend (parts delivery permitting), so get ready for a bombardment of questions if it doesn't play nice when I put it together .


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 1, 2018)

trickson said:


> I'm not sure about that, I always overclock in the bios and I haven't touched the voltage yet. so maybe if the MB has some built in feature I don't know about.



This is on am3 for me, i set a reference voltage in the bios, 1.476, during Ryzen blender the cpu voltage at least detected by open hardware monitor will jump to 1.5024 on its own. So i guess boards have some leeway.


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## GoldenX (Feb 1, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> This is on am3 for me, i set a reference voltage in the bios, 1.476, during Ryzen blender the cpu voltage at least detected by open hardware monitor will jump to 1.5024 on its own. So i guess boards have some leeway.



You can control that with Loadline Calibration, even on AM3. Some boards, specially cheap ones do that.

I was reading on some of the CPU options, like OpCache, relaxed EDC thottling and C6 state. OpCache is for prediction, helps both to reduce power and increase performance, EDC throttling reduces the time the CPU spends on a lower state due to temperatures or current limits, and C6 is core parking, Windows has problems with that on Ryzen, that's why we need to use a specific power plan.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 1, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> You can control that with Loadline Calibration, even on AM3. Some boards, specially cheap ones do that.
> 
> I was reading on some of the CPU options, like OpCache, relaxed EDC thottling and C6 state. OpCache is for prediction, helps both to reduce power and increase performance, EDC throttling reduces the time the CPU spends on a lower state due to temperatures or current limits, and C6 is core parking, Windows has problems with that on Ryzen, that's why we need to use a specific power plan.



I leave llc off, it doesnt drop below 1.476 though.

Sabertooth R2.0 was known to take 8350/70 to 5.0+ GHz


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## dhklopp (Feb 2, 2018)

Well the big new build is on hold until Sunday.  I received an empty USA 1910 playing card box instead of my CPU due to some tea leaf at Amazon's warehouse


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## NdMk2o1o (Feb 2, 2018)

trickson said:


> 3.8GHz (in the BIOS) no voltage increase yet.


Nice OC and decent volts, have you tried to go higher? I have been sitting at 3.9 for the last few days at 1.3v with no issues, I'm thinking the last bios update I done has given me more stability than previous as I can also set my RAM using XMP now whereas I couldnt previously, I wonder if I can get to 4ghz as previously I had to throw stupid voltage into it (1.45) just to boot but it was way too hot while benching for the stock cooler.


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## trickson (Feb 3, 2018)

NdMk2o1o said:


> Nice OC and decent volts, have you tried to go higher? I have been sitting at 3.9 for the last few days at 1.3v with no issues, I'm thinking the last bios update I done has given me more stability than previous as I can also set my RAM using XMP now whereas I couldn't previously, I wonder if I can get to 4ghz as previously I had to throw stupid voltage into it (1.45) just to boot but it was way too hot while benching for the stock cooler.


Thank you, I want to  I am just not sure about the stock cooler, It's not even the good one with the LED light, it's the cheapo aluminum base one. so I won't be over volting at all. no way. 
I am scared now at 3.8GHz.  I took it back to 3.5GHz till I get cooling, No need to blow it out before I can have some real fun.


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## YautjaLord (Feb 3, 2018)

Can hit 4.0GHz/1.42v & boot into Win 10 easily, it's just it would hard reset the rig not even halfway  through the Cinebench R15. I don't even try to run Prime95 cause of this shit. I'll wait til i get EKWB's monoblock & only then fiddle with clocks & voltages. Unless my LCS's waterblock can handle 1.46v vCore/1.25v SoC voltages. If anyone has an answer to solve this issue, much appreciated.


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## GoldenX (Feb 3, 2018)

trickson said:


> Thank you, I want to  I am just not sure about the stock cooler, It's not even the good one with the LED light, it's the cheapo aluminum base one. so I won't be over volting at all. no way.
> I am scared now at 3.8GHz.  I took it back to 3.5GHz till I get cooling, No need to blow it out before I can have some real fun.



Man, the stock aluminum one is enough for a 1,35v overclock.



YautjaLord said:


> Can hit 4.0GHz/1.42v & boot into Win 10 easily, it's just it would hard reset the rig not even halfway  through the Cinebench R15. I don't even try to run Prime95 cause of this shit. I'll wait til i get EKWB's monoblock & only then fiddle with clocks & voltages. Unless my LCS's waterblock can handle 1.46v vCore/1.25v SoC voltages. If anyone has an answer to solve this issue, much appreciated.



I think the only problem is that you need better temps, the kit should help.


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## NdMk2o1o (Feb 3, 2018)

No need to be scared at those volts nothing is going to blow, at most your main concern should be temperature and as long as that's in check then you are fine, you will hit the temp limit before you could pump enough volts into the CPU to damage it, and you're talking 1.5v+



YautjaLord said:


> Can hit 4.0GHz/1.42v & boot into Win 10 easily, it's just it would hard reset the rig not even halfway  through the Cinebench R15. I don't even try to run Prime95 cause of this shit. I'll wait til i get EKWB's monoblock & only then fiddle with clocks & voltages. Unless my LCS's waterblock can handle 1.46v vCore/1.25v SoC voltages. If anyone has an answer to solve this issue, much appreciated.


1.42v for 3.9, man I can take my 1600 to 3.9 at 1.3 on stock cooling though you do have those 2/4 extra cores/threads and 30w more TDP but even still, seems high, have you changed any other voltages or is everything else at auto? edit: nvm see your 1.25v SOC bit, why 1.25? isnt 1.10 default, are you unstable at that?>


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## GoldenX (Feb 3, 2018)

1,00-1,10v SoC shoud be enough for 3200MHz on RAM.


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## YautjaLord (Feb 3, 2018)

NdMk2o1o said:


> No need to be scared at those volts nothing is going to blow, at most your main concern should be temperature and as long as that's in check then you are fine, you will hit the temp limit before you could pump enough volts into the CPU to damage it, and you're talking 1.5v+
> 
> 
> 1.42v for 3.9, man I can take my 1600 to 3.9 at 1.3 on stock cooling though you do have those 2/4 extra cores/threads and 30w more TDP but even still, seems high, have you changed any other voltages or is everything else at auto? edit: nvm see your 1.25v SOC bit, why 1.25? isnt 1.10 default, are you unstable at that?>



It's 1.25v in CPU-Z, 1.10v in BIOS. For some reason CPU-Z thinks it can bump up SoC voltage, probably cause LLC is @ Extreme. Beside vCore, SoC & LLC everything else is @ Auto. Think this EK's monoblock will suit me well. 

Also, yeah - perfectly stable @ the 3.9GHz/1.42v vCore, 1.10v SoC, where did you see 1.25v SoC? CPU-Z? HWInfo64? 1723cb @ Cinebench R15 with these settings & 2h+ run of Prime95 Blend test. 2h of Prime95 SmallFFT test will suffice to check for instabilities?


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## PHaS3 (Feb 7, 2018)

https://www.techpowerup.com/241298/...oard-bios-updates-for-raven-ridge-apu-support

I see I now have AGESA 1.1.0.1, along with improved memory compatibility and improved PCIE compatibility. Looking forward to flashing to this when I get home from work this afternoon.


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## YautjaLord (Feb 7, 2018)

Tried the following: 
vCore - 1.40v
SoC - 1.08v
LLC - Turbo
bClk - 103/100
Multi - 39x/40x

After 3rd crush/hard reset by Cinebench R15, was greeted by Win 10 Recovery/Troubleshooting page. 3.9GHz for now, til i get this EK's monoblock. Have anyone of you was lucky with OC'ing while Bank Group Swap & Gear Down Mode options were enabled, tho? Will help.


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## the54thvoid (Feb 7, 2018)

Question. What would be hotter, CPU socket temp or CPU? HWinfo still gives me either a 50 or 70 degree temp on CPU on Prime at 3.82Ghz at 1.39v.
On a good air cooler. Pretty sure the 20 degree off set is being wrongly applied to the higher temp reading. When stopping Prime, CPU socket is hotter than CPU.


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## Super XP (Feb 8, 2018)




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## GoldenX (Feb 8, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> Tried the following:
> vCore - 1.40v
> SoC - 1.08v
> LLC - Turbo
> ...



I do, but a 1200 is a lot less stressful for the motherboard.

New MSI bios, new max clock for the RAM sticks, 3400MHz. And then they decided to never boot again at that frequency.


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## YautjaLord (Feb 8, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> I do, but a 1200 is a lot less stressful for the motherboard.
> 
> New MSI bios, new max clock for the RAM sticks, 3400MHz. And then they decided to never boot again at that frequency.



That sucks. Gonna keep fiddling tomorrow, see if these will make OC'ing easier on my mobo, if not - next salary will have me that EK's monoblock & roll it real f*ckin proper/adult-like. lol Cheers.


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## PHaS3 (Feb 8, 2018)

the54thvoid said:


> Question. What would be hotter, CPU socket temp or CPU? HWinfo still gives me either a 50 or 70 degree temp on CPU on Prime at 3.82Ghz at 1.39v.
> On a good air cooler. Pretty sure the 20 degree off set is being wrongly applied to the higher temp reading. When stopping Prime, CPU socket is hotter than CPU.



On my 1700, idle for example the CPU will report 30.5°C, and the "other" temp called CPU PECI on mine will report 40°C. I trust the CPU temp more I think. Here's some shots:
(Columns are "Current", "Minimum", "Maximum", Average")

CPU Only:





CPU and PECI as reported by the motherboard:




I believe AUXTIN2 is my VRMs, im not 100% sure. PECI must be the same as your Socket temp, but again I'm not 100% sure. If anyone else knows more, please feel free to correct me


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## YautjaLord (Feb 8, 2018)

@the54thvoid: when, if, you have the one of Ryzens with X suffix, in my case (1700X) for example tDie means your actual/real temp & tCtl is HWInfo's way of telling the XFR's thermal ceiling if i understand it properly, it's AMD's coveted +20°C offset, that's given; when you load up any test you should watch tdie/CPU value more than tCtl's. Here are the link(s):
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2017/03/amds-ryzen-cpus-arent-running-as-hot-as-they-say-they-are/
https://hardforum.com/threads/ryzen-temperature-confusion.1928806/ (3rd post)
Was also searching for this info as well few weeks back, if not more, make Google your friend for this stuff too.


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## the54thvoid (Feb 8, 2018)

^ I've googled plenty but there are no clear answers. I think the higher value of the two is the actual reading.  
I know some folk still think you definitely drop 20  degrees for actual but I think that correction has been made and still mobo manufacturers are applying a further offset.
Example being ambient overclocked CPU temp of 17 degrees when idle. Room temp is about that. No way an air-cooler at ultra slow RPM keeps a CPU at room temp.


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## GoldenX (Feb 8, 2018)

Put it to 60º, try with your own finger on the heatsink. This technique has been passed down the Armstrong family line for generations.

Testing a different approach to memory overlcocking, I'm now at 3GHz instead of 3,2, but at CL16 (XMP latencies for the stock 2,4GHz), a lot better performance than on CL18.


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## dhklopp (Feb 8, 2018)

Finally got around to putting the build together, I'm now a proud member of the club.  Time to install some games now .


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## theonek (Feb 8, 2018)

dhklopp said:


> Finally got around to putting the build together, I'm now a proud member of the club.  Time to install some games now .


hmmm, 1800x, that's more like it! Just didn't overclock mine yet, but it behaves very good on stock.


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## dhklopp (Feb 8, 2018)

theonek said:


> hmmm, 1800x, that's more like it! Just didn't overclock mine yet, but it behaves very good on stock.



Its was reduced to £260 odd on Amazon so I thought bollocks to it.


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## phanbuey (Feb 9, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> 'ssup you two, make me 3rd (for about ~2 months actually), only with GA-AX370 Gaming K7, rest you can see in my sys specs.
> 
> Super XP, 1700X overclocked to 3.9GHz is on par with 1800X & beating it when @ 4.0GHz, wait for 2nd gen Ryzens (Pinnacle Ridge), will be better investment. I know i will buy one along with Zen-based APU. I have really hard time not recommending the regular Ryzens over Threadrippers. Runs circles around any FXs & i7s in multithreaded applications, more than decent in any games i have, soon will test DOOM 4/2016 & Quake Champions once will purchase these 2 games. Only rant i have, if you will, is my 1700X have so far hard time hitting 4.0GHz, but i also have 1700 non-X, that one can hit that frequency easy according to multitude of YT & regular reviews, so i'm ok.  You did good, only reason to be sorry that you didn't purchased Threadrippers is either if you have unlimited amount of money or if you Linus/JayzTwoCents/Elric Phalres/etc...  jk You got multithreaded beast & more than decent gaming CPU if you have really fast RAM, TridentZ in particular. Make sure to update EFI ASAP tho, if you OC RAM, it will only get better especially in gaming, AGESA 1.0.0.6 unlocks RAM frequencies all the way to DDR4 4000MHz. Good to see you 2 here, good luck. Cheers.


Your 1700x at 3.9ghz actually beats an 1800x at stock... i know because my 1800x at stock was about 5-15% slower than it was locked at 3.9...


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## trickson (Feb 9, 2018)

You know I would love to get this CPU of mine to 4GHz. But I have no idea how to setup the voltages in the bios, There are so many now, OMG what are half of them? 
And the acronyms WTH? I can't even begin to describe them and there for voltage? What happened to user friendly? Once I get some time I will post up some bios screen shots and ask for help may start a new thread as to not mess this one up. But so far this is what I have with out any voltage changes, As I can not begin to figure out safe levels let alone the acronyms!


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## YautjaLord (Feb 9, 2018)

phanbuey said:


> Your 1700x at 3.9ghz actually beats an 1800x at stock... i know because my 1800x at stock was about 5-15% slower than it was locked at 3.9...


God, i hope they optimized Quake Champions open Beta, AvP3/2010 goes beyond 200fps @ 1920x1080 everything maxed out, game & D3D11 benchmark. The most resource hogging among games I  have, Carmageddon: Max Damage (crazy physics, Yebis3 lighting/post processing, etc...) gives 70/80+ fps minimum at the same settings. DOOM (4/2016) & Quake Champions should put this rig (& CPU especially) to the test. Flare X is awesome RAM performance & aesthetics-wise, sits @ 3200MHz/1.35v with the help of XMP (yes, mobo has XMP option, the "irony" - intel tech on AMD board lol jk) & once i'll have this baby i'll see if 4.0 &/or even 4.1GHz is doable. Cheers, test da f*ck out of your 1800X.


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## ArbitraryAffection (Feb 9, 2018)

Herro. My first post here 

I updated my MSI B350 PC MATE to latest bios and tried 3600 MHz C16-18-18 with my 3200mhz c14 ram kit and it booted to windows but wasn't stable for 5 minutes in AIDA 64 (Test failed)  Using the "Memory try it!" feature... it's not my ram because i have it on good authority that this kit can do 4GHz OC (the previous owner has an 8700K). *shrugs*

But been running 3200 MHz c14 without problems even on previous bios. 

My OC is 4.1 GHz at 1.42V but droop to 1.402 under load. Seems stable so far  67C max temps on AIDA64 with H110i cooler. Gotta love that solder 

Plan is to get a 2800X on launch if they can do 4.5GHz+


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## Super XP (Feb 9, 2018)

ArbitraryAffection said:


> Plan is to get a 2800X on launch if they can do 4.5GHz+


A 2800X? I am all for a upgrade, but I just got the 1700X lol


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## ArbitraryAffection (Feb 9, 2018)

Super XP said:


> A 2800X? I am all for a upgrade, but I just got the 1700X lol


A great CPU  Will serve you well for a long time. And with AM4, you know your board is good for a couple years of the latest architectures if you do decide to upgrade it's all just a quick CPU swap rather than changing boards.


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## YautjaLord (Feb 12, 2018)

Can any one of you guys confirm that 32GB of RAM (Flare X 4x8GB) won't limit RAM frequency to 2400MHz? Aside from Quake Champions 16GB requirement (in Recommended), i need it for my modding/work in Blender: textures will be in 8192x8192 range with all UV/relief/displacement mapping, all the heavy & therefore yummy stuff.  Plus i got spoiled by all 4 RAM banks/slots filled like in this pic. 






These were the ones i wanted, b4 eventually getting Flare X 2x8GB sticks, i still wanna have these in my life, along with Flare X, hell add Trident Z RGBs into the mix as well.  Cheers, thanx in advance.


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## Super XP (Feb 12, 2018)

Check the motherboard Ram list. But I think if you populate all for DIMMs, it might limit the overall speed.


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## trickson (Feb 12, 2018)

I guess like always AMD once again is a let down. Seems to me the Ryzen CPU as fast as some think it is, Is far from that! Looks like it is RAM dependent and needs a powerful video card with LOTS of video RAM too. 
I am NOT pleased at all. what a waste. 
a 6 year old Intel core i5 smokes the hell out of a Ryzen 3 1300X! Jesus! What a fing debacle! This System should have been free but NO it cost me like $500 bucks and going up. Looks like I will need to ADD more RAM to see if it can even manage any kind of speed at all. What a sorry POS waste of money! AMD needs to FIRE there entire R&D department NOW! Or close there doors! I can't even GIVE this system away for an i5! JESUS! I have so much HATE for AMD NOW! PURE HATE! 
I am poor and can't afford to just run out like you guys I am Kenny! NOT Cartman!


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## PHaS3 (Feb 12, 2018)

You’re a funny guy. The other day you were raving about how awesome your FX8300 was, now you’re bashing on Ryzen and AMD must fire their R&D team.

Ryzen is a massive improvement and a great product. I have no issues with my 1700, so maybe if you’re looking for top performance you shouldn’t buy the lowest end cpu. That cpu is meant as competition for an i3 and you’re crying that an i5 “smokes” it.

Funny, funny guy.


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## trickson (Feb 12, 2018)

A 6 year old one yes! The FX is faster than it too with only 4gb RAM! That makes me happy!


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## GoldenX (Feb 12, 2018)

Show me one bench where the FX is faster, and it's not thanks to it's 8 threads. Oh, and learn to overclock RAM if you bough cheap ones.


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## PHaS3 (Feb 12, 2018)

trickson said:


> OMG This CPU is just a beast! For $130.00 Dollars it is an absolute fantastic CPU! Just a beast! Can't wait to get it to 4Ghz!



What happened between then and now?


----------



## GoldenX (Feb 12, 2018)

A bad Windows installation?


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## phanbuey (Feb 12, 2018)

you can always sell all the other rigs and get together a i5-8400 system or a i3-8100 for more oomf.


----------



## YautjaLord (Feb 13, 2018)

@Super XP: Being Google'ing for this stuff, GB manual & mobo's webpage for that matter, didn't give definite answer, closest was some forum or AMD reddit, guy said after some EFI update his 3000MHz RAM was running @ 2993MHz with all 4 RAM banks/slots filled. The models i'll build for game will be packed with all the latest & greatest of UV/displacement/etc... it'll probably chew thru my 16GB of RAM like nothing.


----------



## GoldenX (Feb 13, 2018)

The first reports were for old AGESA versions, maybe with the current ones you can get good clocks on 4 DIMMs, I really hope so, I want to go to 16GB when prices go down.


----------



## R-T-B (Feb 13, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> The first reports were for old AGESA versions, maybe with the current ones you can get good clocks on 4 DIMMs, I really hope so, I want to go to 16GB when prices go down.



Get samsung b-dies if you can.  Running 4x8GBs on my 1800x right now.


----------



## YautjaLord (Feb 13, 2018)

4x8GB of Flare X RAM running @ 3200MHz/1.35v/C14, that's the idea. Don't think will be able to hit it with 4 dimms populated, but have a feeling it'll be funny to try.

@GoldenX: now that's nice, AGESA 1.1.0.1?


----------



## R-T-B (Feb 13, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> 4x8GB of Flare X RAM running @ 3200MHz/1.35v/C14, that's the idea. Don't think will be able to hit it with 4 dimms populated, but have a feeling it'll be funny to try.



I was.  3200 no prob on two chips.  Just have a up to date agesa.


----------



## YautjaLord (Feb 13, 2018)

R-T-B said:


> I was.  3200 no prob on two chips.  Just have a up to date agesa.



1.0.0.6 or 1.1.0.1? Latest is F10 or F10a, didn't go so well, F4 is much better & way more stable @ that. Will wait til i get another Flare X kit, probably next month.


----------



## PerfectWave (Feb 13, 2018)

R-T-B said:


> Get samsung b-dies if you can.  Running 4x8GBs on my 1800x right now.


I want also run 4 dimm for 32 gb can u tell me exactly what memory do you have so i can buy the same. Thnx


----------



## R-T-B (Feb 13, 2018)

PerfectWave said:


> I want also run 4 dimm for 32 gb can u tell me exactly what memory do you have so i can buy the same. Thnx



It's actually an intel kit I use, and it is now very pricey, but it's these:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...951-530195171.1515762774&Item=N82E16820232207


----------



## PerfectWave (Feb 13, 2018)

thnak you very much!


----------



## dhklopp (Feb 14, 2018)

Just got my memory up to 3200Mhz, well pleased with this now.  Twas a piece of piss as well, only took one botched attempt .


----------



## GoldenX (Feb 14, 2018)

dhklopp said:


> Just got my memory up to 3200Mhz, well pleased with this now.  Twas a piece of piss as well, only took one botched attempt .


Timmings?


----------



## dhklopp (Feb 14, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> Timmings?



16, 18, 18, 36.


----------



## NdMk2o1o (Feb 14, 2018)

I feel blessed running 2 completely different branded sticks of dual rank RAM yet being able to run them at their rated 2800 and even OC to 2933 at CL14/15 respectively. 14/15/15/39 with both at 2800 seems to be the sweet spot, no extra voltage needed either so both running auto volts at 1.35v. Reason for having 2 completely different sticks of RAM? when prices went skyward I managed to buy each stick for £40 from CEX before their prices filtered down, so a nice 16GB kit of ddr4 that works on Ryzen for the price of a single 8GB stick


----------



## GoldenX (Feb 14, 2018)

I thnk past 2666 all odd numbers are rounded up, so CL15 turns to 16.


----------



## Super XP (Feb 14, 2018)

Running my Ram at 2933 MHz., my 16GB x 2 is at 16-18-18-38. But that is for 3200 MHz. At the moment, my motherboard doesn't do that till they get a bios update for it and add support.


----------



## _JP_ (Feb 16, 2018)

dhklopp said:


> Just got my memory up to 3200Mhz, well pleased with this now.  Twas a piece of piss as well, only took one botched attempt .





dhklopp said:


> 16, 18, 18, 36.


So you have C16 sticks instead of C14? Hynix SR?


----------



## dhklopp (Feb 16, 2018)

C15 I think.


----------



## YautjaLord (Feb 17, 2018)

Yesterday, prior to going to bar played me some AvP 3/2010: not only this 2010 game still looks awesome, it also runs insanely fast, 150+ fps minimum, sometimes beyond 200 fps & in few areas it jumps to almost 300fps. Cinebench R15 gave me 1715cb last time i ran this app. Until i get the EK Aorus monoblock, 3.9GHz is my 24/7 OC - actually thinking of doing 4 hours Prime95 Blend test run just to see if it's stable. Or 2h Small FFTs run. Or even both, one after the other.


----------



## Super XP (Feb 24, 2018)

I managed to get the RAM to 3060. But it won't do 3200. It will boot up with 3200, but will freeze while gaming. So it seems the motherboard needs a bios update. Because its rated to support 3200. And I ain't dropping the timings either. I'll leave those at stock.


----------



## GoldenX (Feb 24, 2018)

Super XP said:


> I managed to get the RAM to 3060. But it won't do 3200. It will boot up with 3200, but will freeze while gaming. So it seems the motherboard needs a bios update. Because its rated to support 3200. And I ain't dropping the timings either. I'll leave those at stock.


Voltage of RAM and SoC?


----------



## YautjaLord (Mar 9, 2018)

Just in the beginning of the campaign. 100+ fps 1920x1080, everything maxed out, Vulkan, VSync - Off. Will post couple more with CPU stats. Man, whoever says this CPU is not decent in gaming should have a really heavy dose of reality check.  Will do the same with 2700X once this beast released & bought by me, when it hits PC stores shelves in Israel. Cheers.


----------



## YautjaLord (Mar 10, 2018)

Sorry for double-post, here's another one this time with CPU stats along with other HW info:






This game is unforgiving @ Ultra-Violence, one mistake is what separates you from victory to char's death animation. Also, it is hard capped @ 200 fps @ 1920x1080, but you all probably know it by now. One last purchase (Logitech Brio 4k) & i start rolling with recording it for my 1st ever YT tech review. (in 3 languages: Hebrew, Russian & English)


----------



## psyko12 (Mar 10, 2018)

@YautjaLord the monitoring software you use, is that afterburner + riva statistics?
Just curious 

Thanks!


----------



## YautjaLord (Mar 11, 2018)

psyko12 said:


> @YautjaLord the monitoring software you use, is that afterburner + riva statistics?
> Just curious
> 
> Thanks!



Yup.  Awesome app, ain't it? Rely on it religiously.  Cheers.


----------



## YautjaLord (Apr 1, 2018)

Second double-post, i'll keep it simple, my bad:

Ryzen 7 1700X @ 3.9GHz 2018 edition 




Oh, and:





Can't even begin to imagine how even more reliable the 2700X will be, especially @ 4.0GHz+. Cheers.


----------



## Johan45 (Apr 2, 2018)

I see it still takes 1.4V to hold 3.9 GHz


----------



## YautjaLord (Apr 3, 2018)

No worries, cooling solution (ek-kit x360) still holds it like a champ. See that Prime95 above DOOM 4/2016? That's Small FFTs test, ran it for 1h. 

Thing is, basically i still wait for reliable EFI update for my mobo, i still find F4 completely stable @ 3.9GHz, unlike any other "update" above F4. Will wait til 2nd half of April, Pinnacle Ridge is coming, brace yourselves.  F22/AGESA 1.0.0.1a is the latest update from GB, according to Canard PC early 2700X "review".


----------



## Johan45 (Apr 19, 2018)

Time for an update with 2700X pics
4.3 stable for one hour Aida64 1.45V no time for more testing at the moment




Here's an all-out pic at 4.55 GHz, 1.5V on my chilled loop. 3733 Cl14


----------



## YautjaLord (Apr 19, 2018)

My next purchase Johan45, see how this one will perform under my newly purchased EK-FB GA-AX370 monoblock. Won't happen before August 12, tho: Bloodstock Open Air 2018 is calling. 

The monoblock:




Insane, isn't it?  Perfect weapon for my job.  Cheers.


----------



## Johan45 (Apr 21, 2018)

Managed to squeeze 4000 memory out of this 2700X CL14


----------



## HTC (Apr 21, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Managed to squeeze 4000 memory out of this 2700X CL14
> 
> View attachment 100069
> 
> ...



Congratz, dude: you're the 1st one i'm aware of that managed to get RAM @ 4000+ on Ryzen platform with "proper" timings.

VS ... say ... 3200, what performance boost from RAM only did you manage? Assuming ofc you tested the difference.


----------



## Johan45 (Apr 21, 2018)

HTC said:


> Congratz, dude: you're the 1st one i'm aware of that managed to get RAM @ 4000+ on Ryzen platform with "proper" timings.
> 
> VS ... say ... 3200, what performance boost from RAM only did you manage? Assuming ofc you tested the difference.


This is the same clock speed memory at 3733 to give you an idea. I haven't run any benches at 4.55 with 3200 ram just seemed counterproductive.


----------



## HTC (Apr 21, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> This is the same clock speed memory at 3733 to give you an idea. I haven't run any benches at 4.55 with 3200 ram just seemed counterproductive.
> 
> View attachment 100074



The intent was to see how much performance uplift were to be gained by going 4000 VS 3200 on the RAM (without touching anything else): is the difference comparable to 3200 VS 2400? With the same difference between the 2 (RAM speed), is the performance uplift proportional?

I'm just curious!


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 21, 2018)

Guessing it's not worth upgrading to from a 1700X? Plus I will keep my current AM4 mobo.


----------



## HD64G (Apr 22, 2018)

A very useful video for anyone already having a *good* X370 mobo and being tempted to change it for X470.


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 22, 2018)

Well, my mobo allows 3200Mhz memory at 14 timings. All core OC at 3.82Ghz.  Without watching video (out at mo) I'm guessing I stay put.


----------



## HD64G (Apr 22, 2018)

the54thvoid said:


> Well, my mobo allows 3200Mhz memory at 14 timings. All core OC at 3.82Ghz.  Without watching video (out at mo) I'm guessing I stay put.


Correct. Zen gen 2 (not the recently released Zen+) will be the one for you logically.


----------



## Johan45 (Apr 23, 2018)

HTC said:


> The intent was to see how much performance uplift were to be gained by going 4000 VS 3200 on the RAM (without touching anything else): is the difference comparable to 3200 VS 2400? With the same difference between the 2 (RAM speed), is the performance uplift proportional?
> 
> I'm just curious!


OK ran a 4.0 with 4000Mem for comparison


----------



## HTC (Apr 23, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> OK ran a 4.0 with 4000Mem for comparison
> View attachment 100141
> 
> 
> View attachment 100142



So there's an increase of 1 point in CB R15 in single core, it seems. Unfortunately, you're covering the multi-score with the CPU-Z left screenie: what was the uplift VS 3200 MHz on the RAM?

In your opinion: is it worth it to get RAM to run @ high speeds on the platform (over 3600 MHz)?

EDIT

*I'm an idiot*: you're covering the result with the screenie but it still shows in the upper left quadrant ... DUH ...

22 points more with RAM @ 4 GHz VS @ 3.2 GHz: how much in clock speed is needed for that increase @ the same RAM speed?


----------



## Nuckles56 (Apr 23, 2018)

Holy hell, it looks like you got a golden chip right there @Johan45, I'm very impressed and also jealous as hell


----------



## Johan45 (Apr 23, 2018)

HTC said:


> So there's an increase of 1 point in CB R15 in single core, it seems. Unfortunately, you're covering the multi-score with the CPU-Z left screenie: what was the uplift VS 3200 MHz on the RAM?
> 
> In your opinion: is it worth it to get RAM to run @ high speeds on the platform (over 3600 MHz)?
> 
> ...



Roughly ~ 100 MHz would cover that ground maybe score a bit higher


----------



## R0H1T (Apr 23, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Roughly ~ 100 MHz would cover that ground maybe score a bit higher


So were the tests run at fixed clocks with XFR2 disabled?


----------



## Johan45 (Apr 23, 2018)

Yes they were both set to 4.0 GHz in BIOS, once you set a fixed clock XFR/CPB is automatically disabled


----------



## phanbuey (Apr 23, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Managed to squeeze 4000 memory out of this 2700X CL14
> 
> View attachment 100069
> 
> ...



@Johan45 amazing scores man!

What do you run as 24/7 settings on it?


----------



## Johan45 (Apr 23, 2018)

I haven't gotten that far but, I could likely run 4.2 with 3600 CL16 pretty easily I think. Not even sure I would set a static OC clok on the new chips. I think it would be more beneficial over all to use the PB Overdrive and run a higher boost all core up to 41-4200 and whatever the single will max out at.


----------



## Johan45 (Apr 25, 2018)

Just a follow up on my previous comment. Spent a couple hours and got a decent 3600 stable ram speed out of it. This is with the G.Skill SniperX 3400 CL16 which was supplied with the kit. A quick check with Thaiphoon shows it as Samsung "B" which I had a feeling it was. I'm not saying this is 100% stable but it ran for 2 hours on AIDA Stability with only cache and memory selected which does a decent job of loading the DRAM. The RAM voltage is at 1.46V and SOC at 1.15V could probably lower the SOC, I just wanted a baseline for a decent 24/7 setting at 3600 MHz


----------



## YautjaLord (Apr 27, 2018)

AvP 3/2010, Carmageddon: Max Damage, Serious Sam 3: BFE, DOOM 4/2016 & soon Serious Sam 4 - good gaming benchmarks to test Ryzen 7 1700X & 2700X for starters?  Will also include regular 3DMark, Unigine Heaven 4.0 & Valley 1.0 suites.


----------



## phanbuey (Apr 27, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> AvP 3/2010, Carmageddon: Max Damage, Serious Sam 3: BFE, DOOM 4/2016 & soon Serious Sam 4 - good gaming benchmarks to test Ryzen 7 1700X & 2700X for starters?  Will also include regular 3DMark, Unigine Heaven 4.0 & Valley 1.0 suites.



Fallout 4 is good too -- very heavy on cpu/memory.


----------



## YautjaLord (Apr 27, 2018)

phanbuey said:


> Fallout 4 is good too -- very heavy on cpu/memory.



That's the deal, never really was into all the series, will probably dig it (played & loved another post apocalyptic game S.T.A.L.K.E.R Shadow of Chernobyl), but i need to get motivated to play it,  plus i only have 55GB of free space left on my 850 Pro SSD, but thanx for suggestion. Will probably dig this game someday. Both as game & benchie.


----------



## GoldenX (Apr 28, 2018)

Built a 2200g with an A320 for a client, motherboard is not on it's latest bios... Good thing I have a 1200.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 28, 2018)

PerfectWave said:


> vega and ryzen will do damn good cos of infinity fabric



I'm sure Intel is loading Jim Keller with loads of money right now since they just hired him back, Intel will find the performance of this infinity fabric through Jim Keller, and then throw 5x as much money at Jim Keller as AMD was able to do to beat it handily. Sadly, this is the way of capitalism, AMD is truly tiny in the size of 80% market share giants like Intel and Nvidia.


----------



## HD64G (Apr 28, 2018)

lynx29 said:


> I'm sure Intel is loading Jim Keller with loads of money right now since they just hired him back, Intel will find the performance of this infinity fabric through Jim Keller, and then throw 5x as much money at Jim Keller as AMD was able to do to beat it handily. Sadly, this is the way of capitalism, AMD is truly tiny in the size of 80% market share giants like Intel and Nvidia.


Until then, allow us "poor" customers to have a choice between Intel and AMD cpus. We have at least 3-4 years more until the possible new gen cpu core from Keller's design team arrive to the market. Till then, Zen core will most possibly keep things close to balance and Intel somewhat on their toes me thinks. Especially if the news about new delays for Intel's 10nm are true.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 28, 2018)

HD64G said:


> Until then, allow us "poor" customers to have a choice between Intel and AMD cpus. We have at least 3-4 years more until the possible new gen cpu core from Keller's design team arrive to the market. Till then, Zen core will most possibly keep things close to balance and Intel somewhat on their toes me thinks. Especially if the news about new delays for Intel's 10nm are true.



I was just stating the reason as to why Intel recently hired Jim Keller... but sure thing, infer I was referring to AMD as poor people. neat.

Side note: 8700k has been on sale multiple times on monoprice for $280 free ship no tax... so....


----------



## Johan45 (May 2, 2018)

I have managed to get Win7 up and running but AMD must have changed the xHCI driver for the Ryzen 2xxx series.I have media I use to install Win7 to Ryzen 1xxx systems but it would not work for the 2700X on my Crosshair VI x370, same board different CPU so there must have been some changes to the SOC portion to require a different driver. I used the mid-board USB 3.0 connector with a case adapter which allowed my KB and mouse to function during install. Once I installed the updated chipset drivers from AMD everything worked normally.


----------



## YautjaLord (May 2, 2018)

No need for PS/2 keyboard & mouse then? I chose xHCI & some other options in my mobo's BIOS & it didn't work so well, for a lack of harsher wording.


----------



## Johan45 (May 2, 2018)

A PS/2 KB,mouse would make it easier.  I still need to track down a new driver but using the onboard USB 3 that would connect to the front panel of the case acted as a workaround. I have an adapter that I use which I purchased before cases were front panel USB 3 friendly.


----------



## YautjaLord (May 4, 2018)

I still can't quite get what's the deal with HWinfo64's temp readings: tCtl & tDie. The tCtl (or tJunction) is Ryzen 7 1700X's XFR/20° offset & tDie is the CPU's actual temp? Is that it?


----------



## Norton (May 4, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> I still can't quite get what's the deal with HWinfo64's temp readings: tCtl & tDie. The tCtl (or tJunction) is Ryzen 7 1700X's XFR/20° offset & tDie is the CPU's actual temp? Is that it?


I believe the Ryzen Master software shows the actual temp while HWinfo64/HWmonitor applies the +20C offset.

Just checked my 1700X and my full load readings are 62C in Ryzen Master/82C in HWmonitor


----------



## Johan45 (May 5, 2018)

Went all out yesterday in a bench session full of issues which ended in a power outage. Did manage to get the 2700X up to 5.5 on the X370 CHVI before it all went to hell.


----------



## YautjaLord (May 7, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Went all out yesterday in a bench session full of issues which ended in a power outage. Did manage to get the 2700X up to 5.5 on the X370 CHVI before it all went to hell.
> 
> View attachment 100616



There's definitely gigantic dose of insanity & all-out berserk involved in doing such thing, but there ya go Johan45 - i applaud you, that's the most impressive feat out of X370-based platform, coupled with this beast CPU. Makes me even more interested to see what my rig can pull out, specifically mobo.


----------



## Johan45 (May 7, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> There's definitely gigantic dose of insanity & all-out berserk involved in doing such thing, but there ya go Johan45 - i applaud you, that's the most impressive feat out of X370-based platform, coupled with this beast CPU. Makes me even more interested to see what my rig can pull out, specifically mobo.


This is what it looked like starting off, very humid on Friday. Just thought you might like to see it.


----------



## GoldenX (May 7, 2018)

I love the smell of LN2 in the morning.


----------



## YautjaLord (May 8, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> This is what it looked like starting off, very humid on Friday. Just thought you might like to see it.
> 
> View attachment 100711



It would've be so much..... challenging?... to pull this feat with LCS.  jk Yeah, thought it will involve LN2.  How much for LN2 in this day & age?


----------



## Johan45 (May 8, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> It would've be so much..... challenging?... to pull this feat with LCS.  jk Yeah, thought it will involve LN2.  How much for LN2 in this day & age?


The price varies with the market. Typical price is ~ $40 CAD for 30L. I've been there so many times though so depending on who is working have gotten it as cheap as $15


----------



## EntropyZ (May 8, 2018)

I've replaced the R5 1600 to 2600. The boost wasn't as big as I expected, but it was there nonetheless. Really depended on the games that I play. I got extra 200-400MHz out of that, but there was no improvement on my current memory I think. Since I'm running E-die, it cannot be pushed much farther than 3200MHz with reasonable voltage and timings. I can also forget tighter timings, as those are even harder to get stable, and the motherboard isn't even remotely helpful in that regard. However, I want to upgrade my motherboard to something with nicer VRMs and BIOS.

My AB350M Pro4 served me well up until it had no per-core clock speed control like Ryzen Master does. What if I only want to run two primary cores with 4.2GHz and others at stock? I can't. LLC is uncontrollable, and there are a couple of overclocking settings completely missing. It's a basic budget OC board, I hoped I could get much more out of it, but I'm hitting the limit of what it can do.

It sounds very simple to just side-grade the board, right? Well, I have a uATX case. The X470 boards are all mostly ATX exclusive (only ASUS has a single ITX variant). So I can't buy a motherboard that I want. What a shame, they're reserving uATX motherboards for the B450 chipset, which will only release two months later, and there will probably be no X470 uATX variants.

Why do manufacturers think uATX is a form factor for budget oriented people and releasing AM4 boards with lesser components. It's a valid choice for everyone. They can definitely fit everything on one with more PCB layers, so space isn't a limiting factor for sure.

The AB350M Pro4 is near perfect, but it has a defective PCB for some production runs, the on-board sound is trash and the BIOS is lackluster and not as user-friendly. Those would be a nice change for the next boards AsRock releases, a variant with true 6+2 phase VRM with beefier high density heatsinks would be really really nice. Yet none of the manufacturers are making such a dream board for uATX when it is possible. Price would be no object to most as it would definitely be worth every penny. It's basically the uATX variant of the boards that higher-end ATX already has.

The good things it has going for it are having a better VRM section than most other boards out there for AM4 (even though it's not a true 6 or even 4 phase), enough RGB headers to make your head spin, 2 m.2's even though their configuration is wonky because one of them shares off-of SATA I think, and it looks pretty damn good. One of the best looking boards they made, along with the Taichi, it looks very clean inside the case.

I don't need 3 PCI-E slots, and a crap ton of M.2's, that's why it's almost perfect. There's little compromise when owning a uATX board, provided manufacturers don't skimp on features. Is a uATX board with decent on-board sound, good VRM (and heatsinks), a few m.2 connections, a few RGB lighting headers and 1 extra PWM fan header_ too much to ask_?

It even looks like the motherboard making divisions aren't even competing, as one surely would want to gain the upper hand over another one and release something that competition doesn't have.


----------



## GoldenX (May 8, 2018)

Wait for an ITX X470, X370 had some.


----------



## phanbuey (May 8, 2018)

Tis is one of the main reasons i just went with a compact atx build since ive always had issue with mb selection on the other form factors.  They are either more expensive, or just the selection is not as good and it's harder to find deals.


----------



## YautjaLord (May 12, 2018)

What i really wanna know is - every single one of you with same mobo as me, (AX370 Gaming K7) have you tested 2700X with F22 EFI/BIOS update? Is it stable, i.e. F22? Do not want to revert back to F4 after i update, that's what i'm saying. Cheers.


----------



## v12dock (May 21, 2018)

I picked up a "clearance" 2700X from Microcenter yesterday for $271.96


----------



## msroadkill612 (May 21, 2018)

HTC said:


> The intent was to see how much performance uplift were to be gained by going 4000 VS 3200 on the RAM (without touching anything else): is the difference comparable to 3200 VS 2400? With the same difference between the 2 (RAM speed), is the performance uplift proportional?
> 
> I'm just curious!



I dont get that it isnt stressed more just what a double benefit increments in memory speed yields for ryzen.

get that mem clock up, and you get fabric clock up also. Even latency is of secondary importance.

with apuS, it gets better again.

e.g., its a common argument in the dgpu vs apu debate - apu means dearer memory - BS. The premium is a bargain on any ryzen.

earance" 2700X from Microcenter yesterday for $271.96

nice indeed


imo, take off $30 for the decent cooley you get - so not a lot more than the 6 core.

as somebody commented ~"yeah, ~$100 is a lot for the extra 2 cores, but $100 over the life of the pc is not much for such a pivotal resource."

it would play nice with vega.


----------



## v12dock (May 23, 2018)

I am able to get a lot more out of my memory on this 2700x


----------



## Dante Uchiha (May 26, 2018)

Curious to know if Zen+ can finally beat the millestone of the 100fps in that bench: https://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-CPU-Benchmark-designed-for-PCSX2-based-on-FFX-2

1700 @ 4Ghz reaches 90 fps. 
https://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-CPU-Benchmark-designed-for-PCSX2-based-on-FFX-2?pid=556242#pid556242


----------



## animal007uk (Jun 2, 2018)

I am happy with my current pc and for my needs i don't even have to upgrade or anything, thing is i might be starting a new job (will know more when i wake up tomoz) and i will have money to build a second system and if i do then i want to give AMD a try 

Only issue i have is do i go for the current Ryzen cpu's and the new x470 mobo's or would it be worth waiting till we see Ryzen 2 on the so called 7nm node?


----------



## GoldenX (Jun 2, 2018)

7nm is Zen 2, it should be called Ryzen 3.
Apply the general DIY guide, the longer you wait, the best you can get.


----------



## animal007uk (Jun 2, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> 7nm is Zen 2, it should be called Ryzen 3.
> Apply the general DIY guide, the longer you wait, the best you can get.


Haha that is true but if we keep waiting we will never buy anything  

And sorry zen 2 is what i ment hehe but if its not gonna drop till next year then i will just go for a 2700x or something  If this job works out money is not an issue and i am just bored of my intel pc and want to build a new one lol.


----------



## msroadkill612 (Jun 2, 2018)

animal007uk said:


> I am happy with my current pc and for my needs i don't even have to upgrade or anything, thing is i might be starting a new job (will know more when i wake up tomoz) and i will have money to build a second system and if i do then i want to give AMD a try
> 
> Only issue i have is do i go for the current Ryzen cpu's and the new x470 mobo's or would it be worth waiting till we see Ryzen 2 on the so called 7nm node?



Hope the news was good.
Ryzen is a great product at current  nodes, and the recent refresh tidied up many initial loose ends. A classic workhorse.

The main improvement down the pike will be pcie 4 on new moboS & cpuS.

Vega could really use 7nm tho.


----------



## Arrakis9 (Jun 7, 2018)

running into a slight issue with my OC on ryzen.. super new to the platform and would appreciate any tips or hints to point me in the right direction.
so i can achieve 4.2ghz easily and it is stable as a rock but i cannot seem to get the voltage to come back down with the clocks, it will stay manually locked to 1.4~ volts 
i can use a different profile to reduce the voltage in ryzen master software but it will also stay locked to that voltage and will not come down with the core speed.
i also tried setting the voltage in the bios to +0.3 offset to achieve the same results but it runs into the same issue were the volts will not come down with the clock speed on idle.
the only way i can seem to get the volts to come down on idle is to set everything on auto... am i missing something here??


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## biffzinker (Jun 7, 2018)

Arrakis9 said:


> running into a slight issue with my OC on ryzen.. super new to the platform and would appreciate any tips or hints to point me in the right direction.
> so i can achieve 4.2ghz easily and it is stable as a rock but i cannot seem to get the voltage to come back down with the clocks, it will stay manually locked to 1.4~ volts
> i can use a different profile to reduce the voltage in ryzen master software but it will also stay locked to that voltage and will not come down with the core speed.
> i also tried setting the voltage in the bios to +0.3 offset to achieve the same results but it runs into the same issue were the volts will not come down with the clock speed on idle.
> ...


Overclocking from factory default clock/voltage turns off Cool'n'Quiet. I've had a couple of occasions with my R5 2600X and MSI mobo while overclocking that Cool n Quiet was switched on.


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## Arrakis9 (Jun 7, 2018)

well that really sucks, so what your telling me is i should have gotten the X model


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## biffzinker (Jun 8, 2018)

Doesn't matter which Ryzen model in the product stack. They all shut off CnQ if you overclock.

Abnormal behaviour that CnQ was turned on while overclocked.


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## Arrakis9 (Jun 8, 2018)

so its relatively safe running these chips at a set voltage? the chip does not run hot at all just a little bit worrying that the voltage wont come down with the clocks.


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## Mussels (Jun 8, 2018)

i think thats a board limitation, as i have the same thing

you need to use P-state OCing with a different voltage per state to get it working the way you seek


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## eidairaman1 (Jun 8, 2018)

Inb4trolls


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## Arrakis9 (Jun 8, 2018)

Mussels said:


> i think thats a board limitation, as i have the same thing
> 
> you need to use P-state OCing with a different voltage per state to get it working the way you seek



there was something in the bios under ryzen tweaks that sounded like that. i'll have a look and see what it does, thanks.


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## msroadkill612 (Jun 8, 2018)

Mussels said:


> i think thats a board limitation, as i have the same thing
> 
> you need to use P-state OCing with a different voltage per state to get it working the way you seek


Well done Mussels. u give good advice.


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## TheGuruStud (Jun 17, 2018)

Anyone here have Strix X370-F mobo? I'm really tired of Asus's garbage, but I didn't buy it. LLC absolutely does not work at all. Auto, level 1 or level 5 makes no difference. Vdroop from 1.393 goes all the way down to 1.33 or less (but I assume it's too low realistically) and locks the machine up. Clearly, the VDD result is a bogus as it shows 1.38x. All of the sub VIDs show the crazy drop. Unless it's dropping below 1.38 and not showing, b/c the V bounces all over.


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## TheGuruStud (Jun 19, 2018)

BTW, I found a bug. Hwinfo cannot be ran during stress testing with this setup. It will randomly reboot even at stock speeds and V doesn't matter. I blame Asus, it's junk. RAM CL setting doesn't work on odd numbers, too.

Had to crank V with LLC set to 5 to pass OCCT, b/c of the droop.


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## Johan45 (Jun 20, 2018)

Make sure you're using the latest BIOS and version of HWInfo. ASUS has made some changes to their sensors, not sure it applies to your board but most likely


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## YautjaLord (Jun 22, 2018)

@eidairaman1: So cores, much Ripper.  Will still cost me 3 to 4 monthly salaries if not more. Will watch it more thoroughly regardless.

'ssup all.  Got me F22 BIOS/EFI update for my mobo, so far so good, 3.9GHz/1.4v, 1711cb in R15, 12,000+ Kb/s WinRAR, 4000+ multi/450 single-core in CPU-Z bench, haven't tested Prime95 for 2h, but i guesstimate it'll run in 75-80 degrees C range. Now my question is: has anyone tested 1700X on same mobo as me with the same F22 applied to it @ 4.0GHz?

BTW: 35 degrees C @ this 3.9GHz OC @ idle. My room is below 25 C when i turn on ACU, 29/30 C when off.

*UPDATE*

Prime95:





One hour for now, F22 BIOS/EFI update applied, 1h 7min but who gives a f*ck if it's not 3 or 4, let alone 24h run. Cheers. Will probably do 3 or 4h run on this frequency next week, i got me EKWB's Thermal Grizzly Hydronaut TIM, will see how it compares to what i currently use (Arctic MX-4).

P.S. It's 1.4v in BIOS, CPU-Z applies some weird voltages to what is set in BIOS, 39.00 multi/1.40000v vCore.

P.P.S. New options added with this EFI update, like P-State & individual voltage tweaking sections to existing, will post a screenie here, have any one of you tweaked these? Pic:



It's like being 1st grader in OC'ing yet again, the 1st one at the top (highlighted) is where i found all the P-State related stuff, it's f*ckin' bananas! The fact it's also in the Peripherals makes it even more nuts than it already is.


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## Mussels (Jun 27, 2018)

Finally got some real RAM instead of second hand generic stuff
lowered my CPU clocks a little for drastically lowered voltage (and waaaaaay colder temps), and satisfied my OCD by having matching clocks on CPU and ram (3600)

Wiring has been tidied since these were taken, ram was too tall for top mounted rad so i had to re-organise everything to fit it in the front intake instead


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## TheGuruStud (Jun 27, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> @eidairaman1: So cores, much Ripper.  Will still cost me 3 to 4 monthly salaries if not more. Will watch it more thoroughly regardless.
> 
> 'ssup all.  Got me F22 BIOS/EFI update for my mobo, so far so good, 3.9GHz/1.4v, 1711cb in R15, 12,000+ Kb/s WinRAR, 4000+ multi/450 single-core in CPU-Z bench, haven't tested Prime95 for 2h, but i guesstimate it'll run in 75-80 degrees C range. Now my question is: has anyone tested 1700X on same mobo as me with the same F22 applied to it @ 4.0GHz?
> 
> ...



FWIW, IBT and OCCT are way more stressful in my experience on ryzen if you're going for ultra stable. 4hr+ with OCCT or several runs of IBT with 10GB ram (to murder it) should be good to go.
It could chew through Prime, but would fail after 1 hr+ on the others. 1.4V should be more than enough with high LLC. 1.3875 should work for 3.9 (FAR easier than 4.0, they sure did bin em).


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## YautjaLord (Jun 28, 2018)

TheGuruStud said:


> FWIW, IBT and OCCT are way more stressful in my experience on ryzen if you're going for ultra stable. 4hr+ with OCCT or several runs of IBT with 10GB ram (to murder it) should be good to go.
> It could chew through Prime, but would fail after 1 hr+ on the others. 1.4V should be more than enough with high LLC. 1.3875 should work for 3.9 (FAR easier than 4.0, they sure did bin em).



Prime95, OCCT & IBT are heaters, Aida64, ASUS's RealBench, etc... - realistic (if you can call it that) stress tests, rest is of no significance.  DL'd OCCT, the real kicker is both Prime95 & OCCT (correct me if i'm wrong) use AVX & OCCT also use AVX 2 instruction sets, both rape CPU real good; Prime95's Small FFTs test is the one to test if the cooling is actually good, 3h run of it will see if the OC is stable. I'll give it (OCCT) a try tomorrow, bout a time to see if Thermal Grizzly TIM is better than my Arctic MX-4. Will give it 1h run for now.


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## TheGuruStud (Jun 28, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> Prime95, OCCT & IBT are heaters, Aida64, ASUS's RealBench, etc... - realistic (if you can call it that) stress tests, rest is of no significance.  DL'd OCCT, the real kicker is both Prime95 & OCCT (correct me if i'm wrong) use AVX & OCCT also use AVX 2 instruction sets, both rape CPU real good; Prime95's Small FFTs test is the one to test if the cooling is actually good, 3h run of it will see if the OC is stable. I'll give it (OCCT) a try tomorrow, bout a time to see if Thermal Grizzly TIM is better than my Arctic MX-4. Will give it 1h run for now.



Indeed, they are heaters. IBT was hotter than even prime small FFT. But, I value absolute stability over power consumption (had to up V a tick for IBT/OCCT). Of course, I know it's overkill, b/c package power was reported at 180 watts at times under OCCT and IBT, which is cuckoo for cocoa puffs at 3.95 ghz lol

At least it never downclocked itself in fear of Chernobyl 2


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## YautjaLord (Jun 29, 2018)

Medium Data Set or Large Data Set? Also CPU OCCT or CPU Linpack? Number of logical threads - 16. Also applied Thermal Grizzly Hydronaut few mins ago.


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## TheGuruStud (Jun 29, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> Medium Data Set or Large Data Set? Also CPU OCCT or CPU Linpack? Number of logical threads - 16. Also applied Thermal Grizzly Hydronaut few mins ago.



I always use large and run linpack afterwards, as it's even harder on the cores, I believe (IBT uses linpack). I run Aida for funsies, too, I'm not sure what it does. IMO, Large data sets should always be tested, b/c if you're going to find an instability, it's going to be in the mem controller/cache. Some people might find linpack easier to pass, but that's why I said I use 10GB+ in IBT, b/c it's quite the workout routine LOL.

If you can pass those for over 4 hrs, then I wager it's very stable. I've been using my personal machines for many years each with this testing methodology (and of course all the ones I build and OC for people) and never had a crash. There's been a few unrelated BSODs that were fixed with updates due to early windows versions being so crap.

Historically, I found P95 to be the most stressful, but Zen is a different ball game than the old architectures and it hasn't worked out that way for me.


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## YautjaLord (Jun 29, 2018)

Failed. Cause? After fiddling with Command Prompt & rest - you won't believe it, *HOLD ON TO YOUR SOCKS!!!!!! *- gdrv.sys. What is it you ask? Gigabyte Tools. Dafuk is this shit?  All kinds of BSODs & stuff, System Recovery fixed it, but now i'm stuck with no OCCT cause last System Restore checkpoint was @ 28.6.2018.  Gigabyte Tools? AppCenter? Are you f*ckin' joking me? Even funnier, AppCenter said there's the new version of it, same that caused all the trouble. Poor ol' GB, they are just bunch of nutcakes aren't they? Anyway, i'll resort to Small FFTs (heat), In-place large FFTs (FPU & RAM) & Blend (a f*ckload of RAM) tests to check for stability, none of the apps i have are raping the CPU &/or GPU 100% like this heater is. Video editing in OBS/Blender? 100% CPU utilization? Prime95 rapes both & than some.

P.S. Chose Large Data Set & CPU: OCCT, not CPU: Linpack, gave me error 2+ mins into test & popped all bunch of error logs. Error turned out to be GB app, after i ran verifier.exe in Command Prompt. (verifier.exe /standard /all followed by reboot) Will use OCCT probably, but not now. I still want RGB Fusion.  Cheers.


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## TheGuruStud (Jun 29, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> Failed. Cause? After fiddling with Command Prompt & rest - you won't believe it, *HOLD ON TO YOUR SOCKS!!!!!! *- gdrv.sys. What is it you ask? Gigabyte Tools. Dafuk is this shit?  BSODs.



LOL. It took me a while to figure out that HWinfo was rebooting the PC when testing. Idk even know how that's possible. I would expect a freeze, but the freaking reboots had me worried it was hardware.


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## YautjaLord (Jun 29, 2018)

No hardware related now, 33 degrees C idle. Will run Small FFTs tomorrow, for 2 or 3h. Will probably switch from waterblock to EK's Aorus X370 monoblock i purchased, for my current CPU (1700X) & for 2700X later this year, 2nd GTX 1070 G1 rev. 2.0 & LG's 23.8" 4k IPS monitor joining the fray.

*UPDATE*

Got rid off of BIOS Setup (GB's bloatware #1) & USB DAC UP 2 (even bigger GB's bloatware #2), see if it'll make my CPU, OC & Prime95's Small FFTs happier/snappier. Prime95 Small FFTs 2h run coming tomorrow. CPU tDie temp is 30.8 degrees C idle in HWInfo64.

P.S. Prior to getting rid off of these two joke "utilities" had a pop up message to update AppCenter every time i booted into OS, not anymore. Yay.  jk RGB Fusion is an exception: quite neat to choose individual LED RGB regions of mobo & graphics card, but i digress.


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## biffzinker (Jul 28, 2018)

Anyone attempt disabling cores for a higher core clock?

Disabling a pair of cores although only one becomes unstable at 4.2 GHz in a heavy FPU load. I've managed 4.250 GHz was working on stress testing earlier.


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## Mussels (Jul 28, 2018)

biffzinker said:


> Anyone attempt disabling cores for a higher core clock?
> 
> Disabling a pair of cores although only one becomes unstable at 4.2 GHz in a heavy FPU load. I've managed 4.250 GHz was working on stress testing earlier.



i did, but found my boards VRM's were more the limit than the CPU - was having serious Vdroop past 1.3v, and higher voltages made the VRM's  run at absurd temps


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## Apocalypsee (Jul 29, 2018)

My new rig. Notice the cooler? Yep that's the old trusty Arctic Freezer 64 Pro that used to cool Athlon X2 3800+ overclocked 3.2GHz. The clip fits perfectly to AM4 stock bracket and provide good clamping force. It can even handle the CPU overclocked 3.8GHz with only around 64C in heavy games like Witcher 3. Not bad for a decade old cooler that only meant to cool dual core CPU's.

The RAM is Crucial cheap DDR4 2400 RAM rated at CL17-17-17-39. Its a Micron H-die chip single rank. At first I have no hope of clocking these. Just upping the RAM speed in BIOS just increase the latency to over 20 at 3000MHz. After scouring around reddit I found a compatible timing and managed 3200MHz at not-bad 16-17-16-36 1T at 1.3V. I'm happy with it 

I kinda regret buying mATX even though I wanted a smaller footprint case. It have 5 case fans to cool down the 250W 980Ti and 65W CPU. I undervolt both, the 980Ti runs now at 1152MHz 1.024V (by my calculation its TDP should be around 200W) while the CPU is undervolt by 0.1V at stock clock. Runs cool and stable.

All in all I'm happy with the purchase. Games that hogged on old 4-core i5 4670K runs great on this without any overclock.


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## GoldenX (Aug 3, 2018)

Update my bios for the B350 board, and got PBO, couldn't be happier.


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## biffzinker (Aug 3, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> Update my bios for the B350 board, and got PBO, couldn't be happier.


I was just looking for an update from MSI a couple days ago. Thanks for the post, update pending.

Updated


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## GoldenX (Aug 3, 2018)

Put 1000 on everything and enjoy unlimited power.
On my 1200, 3450MHz is pretty tame.


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## robot zombie (Aug 15, 2018)

Out with the 1200 and in with the 2600! Honestly it's a little overkill for me but I felt like I had to have it. More than double the number = 200%+ performance, right? 

I usually don't bother with the stock cooler... ...always had my H7. Tried it for fun. Nobody told me this thing is actually good! Hell of a deal when you consider that the stock cooling solution actually works very well. Not super-amazing given that it's a 65w TDP chip, but pretty nice. You can now have a 6c/12t chip running up to 3.9ghz and put it under heavy loads with the stock cooler without cooking anything! That counts for something.

In my short time with it, the performance boost is pretty noticeable. I'm impressed. Now this is a CPU! Glad I bought it, and I'm sure it's only gonna get better over time, as I continue to really put it to work.

I look forward to putting this chip through its paces. For now, I'm simply running it stock. All I've done is take my HyperX Fury 2400 up to 2800. Little bump to DRAM voltage and SOC got it there, at a slightly looser 16-16-16-39. Not sure I wanna push it higher for latency/stability issues. I don't see these hitting 3000, let alone 3200, but I suppose you never know. Definitely not budging too much on the SOC - don't like messing with it too much outside of limit-testing. If it won't do it at ~1v SOC (not there yet,) it's no good to me - not for 24hr. Rather just have better-spec'd ram from the jump. I'll play with all of that when I have some time, before I get to OCing the chip. For now, I just wanted to get going with something I knew would work.

I'm sure I'll find a much better config. I'm not sure I understand the tradeoff with zen chips just yet... I know that infinity fabric likes high memory clocks. Just not sure where the point is that the fabric performance boost is potentially counteracted by latency added from looser timings. I'm guessing speed means a lot more here, Ryzen is special like that lol. But latency doesn't matter less just because speed happens to matter more - still two sides of the same coin. Of course I'll see for myself, but if anyone can help explain that little oddity to me I'd appreciate it.

I'll probably upgrade the RAM in the future anyway. These sticks have some slightly iffy contacts from dust damage and I want to go to 16gb and use these two 4gb sticks in the same machine the 1200's going to... ...but I digress.

I have the aforementioned, dreaded Strix x370-f, so I'll have to see how that affects things. I actually like this board so far, so I'm hoping for the best. I want to believe its a solid 6-phase, midrange board. I really do.

I almost don't care if the OC pans out amazingly well. Skimming through benchmarks it looks like it could be worth pushing, but out of the box it runs pretty damned efficient and boosts right up to 3.9ghz. That's pretty good afaic. What am I gonna get realistically? 4.1? 4.2? Is the lower thermal headroom worth the gains? This setup runs pretty quiet right now for the performance I get. I dunno, I've deinitely gotta see cuz it's like how when you buy a new car or a new subwoofer you gotta push it a little, but with this particular chip I'm kinda getting the feeling that it's nicely balanced as-is, even not being "tuned" and binned like the x-version. Not sure the boost is worth it for me. I went with the non-x to get a little extra efficiency for not too much performance loss and $60 in savings. To me it's worth it, without OCing, as much as I like to OC. I've never not overclocked when possible.

I'm getting this feeling... ...it's hard to explain... the last time I felt like this, I had just got a Phenom II. Maybe it doesn't OC like those guys did, but it feels the same. It's a good time to be in the market for a new CPU when one like this can be had for $165. I'm starting to feel like I chose a really, really good time to get back into building PC's.


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## GoldenX (Aug 20, 2018)

Good, with the current BIOS I can reach 3333MHz on RAM, not bad from the 2400 stock.


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## robot zombie (Aug 20, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> Good, with the current BIOS I can reach 3333MHz on RAM, not bad from the 2400 stock.


Nice, I was able to hit 3200 with my Strix X370-F with HyperX Fury 2400mhz. Apparently micron made these. Don't see many people talking about micron. They can be had pretty cheap, so I'm happy. Upper 2000s-lower 3000s seems to be a nice sweet spot from what I've seen. If you can get there, no real need for more. Though I guess it's nice to have more if you're buying new sticks. If I could hit 3800 plus I'd be pretty happy, I guess, but 3200 doesn't feel bad! I often wonder where the point of diminishing returns is... ...where memory clock is no longer the bottleneck. Still trying to discern where the latency hit isn't really worth it anymore and I'm just fooling myself into thinking I'm progressing.

And hey, not fantastic timings - not at all, but not awful. I'm sitting at 16-16-16-39... ...could play with subtimings more to probably get faster clocks without messing with those - counterbalance the latency somewhat. Strangely enough I didn't have to bump up primary timings at all past 2800. It's tested and stable so far, so I'm counting my blessings.

RAM overclocking has never been my thing, so it's nice to know I can get the speeds my new Ryzen 2 seems to like easily with what I already have. I mean, $80 pair of ram that clocks right up to 3200mhz with a little DRAM voltage and fairly reasonable SOC bump. 1.05v SOC if I'm not mistaken - though readings are .95ish on everything I've seen. Whether it's more or less, I don't know, which is why I hate messing with SOC. The line of no return is really fine and the ways of determining your actual voltage are not so fine, heh. Not to mention the actual number is tied to other variables that I may later go messing with, only not to realize my SOC went up close to the red zone in tandem.

Was gonna upgrade to a better pair of 8's for more capacity and tighter timings. But now I may just snag another pair of these 4's and hope for the best. 16GB will benefit me more in working with VSTi's than faster speeds will at this point.


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## Mussels (Aug 20, 2018)

new bios for my MSI x370 as well, time to re-do all my settings again....


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## GoldenX (Aug 20, 2018)

Rolling back to Windows 7 due to my mouse's drivers being shit on Win10 (both LTSB and normie pro edition), and me being an stubborn idiot who want's it's 11 buttons working.
Let's see the performance penalty.


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## YautjaLord (Aug 24, 2018)

Got me new M.2 NVMe SSD: 960 Pro. 850 Pro wiped clean off of OS (Win 10) after i cloned it to 960 Pro with Samsung Data Migration Tool, best part - i can still OC my 1700X. So far it's @ 3.8GHz, but who said i won't go for 3.9GHz just like it used to be?  VCore @ 1.375v, SoC - 1.0v, VCore & SoC LLCs @ Turbo.


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## robot zombie (Aug 26, 2018)

Played around a bunch with OCing this thing. Didn't get far at all. I'm stuck with the stock cooler for the moment... ...my dumbass didn't realize I was out of thermal paste!

I was able to boot up to 4.3 in offset mode with LLC level 4. Was peaking ~1.42v under max load. With idle temps ~45 and 65-80 under general load . Showed small signs of instability. But hey it booted and things worked! Absolutely not prime95 stable... ...maybe 2 minutes before thermal shutdown. With much, much more cooling it might fly. I was able to run things like timespy and superposition just fine. Completed userbenchmark and scored in the 99th percentile on the CPU lmao. No way I'll actually manage that. 4.2 seems likely, though.

Much preferring to do it in offset mode so it still clocks down and power goes down. Running at max clocks all of the time just makes it all kinds of hot under load. With manual voltage, I couldn't even stress test at 4.1ghz because of thermal shutdown. Not to mention it's actually more stable volt for volt. Don't ask me how. An OC of 4.1ghz at a manual voltage of 1.35 isn't stable, but when the offset is pushing it up to that same voltage max, it actually runs Prime 95. Got me on why. Longest I went was 30 minutes because temps were approaching 90C and it was throttling like hell. Poor little stock cooler can't handle it. My preference for offset will probably change with a proper cooler on there. I haven't fiddled enough, yet.

Doubt the H7 will handle it much better. So I've got a beefier Scythe Mugen MAX on the way, with AM4 adapter. Considered beefier, better performing coolers, but couldn't resist the look of it. Oldie but a goodie. A good lil bit beefier than the H7, too. 



Maybe when I get that installed I'll shoot for 4.3ghz. I'm sure it's possible to do that 24/7 with lucky silicon and custom loop. This cooler is not that, hah. Though I suspect that I have a good chip, here. I just wanna see if I can hit 4.3 and stress test long enough to verify baseline stability. I'll be happy with that.

I'd be happy with 4.2 or even 4.1. The jump in scores across different benches from stock 3.9 boost to a 4.2v OC were pretty impressive. Frame rates on the timespy CPU test nearly doubled. I'll mess with manual voltage again, too... ...see what the vdroop situation really is with the LLC settings. We'll see.

Honestly I'm very happy with it stock. Not even sure this cooler is enough to push more than a warm, cozy 4.1, even if 4.2 winds up being stable. I just don't want to pack anything bigger in an S340 Elite just for a little overclock - even with 4 Corsair ML140's, it's still just an S340. Who knows? Maybe 2 better 140mm fans on the cooler will help.

Not sure how far I really wanna go, just wanna see, yanno? It's all just for a little fun. I swear I am a responsible human being. I know it probably won't work.


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## GoldenX (Aug 26, 2018)

Ryzen Master only changes the last P-State, keeping frequencies low on idle.

The performance penalty on 7 is HUGE, even with the updates unlocked. Tested War Thunder, what I'm currently playing, and on the same spot W7 gets 42FPS, W10, 92.


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## robot zombie (Aug 26, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> Ryzen Master only changes the last P-State, keeping frequencies low on idle.


Hmmm, I'll give it a shot. I'm weird. I really like to stick to doing everything I can in the BIOS. ASUS has great fan control software, but I don't use it. I only used it to set all of my curves initially, before I copied them over into the BIOS  

Anything to keep the low idle going, though. To me, it's just not worth it otherwise. The power consumption and heat jump is massive without it. At that point I'd rather let it boost up to 3.9 and call it a day. Haven't really played with Ryzen Master yet. Like I said, not how I usually like to operate. Thanks for the tip, though. I did not know that about it.



> The performance penalty on 7 is HUGE, even with the updates unlocked. Tested War Thunder, what I'm currently playing, and on the same spot W7 gets 42FPS, W10, 92.


Ouch man, that really hurts. How is it that bad?


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## Mussels (Aug 26, 2018)

damnit i really want like a 2600x or something when i see you guys so easily at 4.3Ghz, and i'm stuck at 3.8 before temps get out of hand


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## GoldenX (Aug 26, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> Hmmm, I'll give it a shot. I'm weird. I really like to stick to doing everything I can in the BIOS. ASUS has great fan control software, but I don't use it. I only used it to set all of my curves initially, before I copied them over into the BIOS
> 
> Anything to keep the low idle going, though. To me, it's just not worth it otherwise. The power consumption and heat jump is massive without it. At that point I'd rather let it boost up to 3.9 and call it a day. Haven't really played with Ryzen Master yet. Like I said, not how I usually like to operate. Thanks for the tip, though. I did not know that about it.
> 
> ...



I configure everything in BIOS (RAM freq, voltage and latencies, fans, PBO), except CPU multiplier and voltage, then do two profiles for those settings on Ryzen Master, one at 1,35v and another at 1,45v (max for 24/7 and max recommended). You get the best of both options.

I'm back on W10 LTSB, waiting for Steam Play to mature, so I can finally ditch Windows.


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## robot zombie (Aug 26, 2018)

Mussels said:


> damnit i really want like a 2600x or something when i see you guys so easily at 4.3Ghz, and i'm stuck at 3.8 before temps get out of hand


Yeah, seems like the switch to 12nm really paid off with them. Both 2nd gen 5's are killer! That clock speed jump was a big factor in my upgrade, hehe. They definitely do run cooler, even if voltages needed still seem highish. It's pulling that clock off under prime95 at 75C, with that itty bitty cooler. Definitely can't see that with a 1600.

Though TBH, I dunno if I'll really be lucky enough to hit a "comfortable" 4.3, myself. It could probably pretty easily be made totally stable with tweaking, but heat is still a problem getting much further past 1.35v. Stock cooler craps out fast and temps surge. It would probably take a good 20-30C drop from stock cooler to make it possible for me. Might get there. Regular 2600 only comes with the wraith stealth cooler after all. 4.2v I'm fairly sure I can do with the Scythe cooler.

But wait... ...don't you have a _1700_ already? What're you complaining about over there? 



GoldenX said:


> I configure everything in BIOS (RAM freq, voltage and latencies, fans, PBO), except CPU multiplier and voltage, then do two profiles for those settings on Ryzen Master, one at 1,35v and another at 1,45v (max for 24/7 and max recommended). You get the best of both options.


Smart way to go. I'll definitely try that out.

You mentioned 1.45 as max reccomended, hah. I think I'd do 1.42 at the most, if my cooler can even handle that. Doesn't AMD reccomed to stay below 1.5? I remember coming across that as being the starting degradtion point. I'm sure 1.45 is fine. I think people get a little silly - I've seen people recommend max voltages lower than what straight up factory boost will push - don't think people realize how high the X's will go all on their own. But still I think I'll try to avoid that past trying to hit max possible clock speed. After that I'll probably lower it down to whatever runs stable a +/-1.4. And from there if it's boost up a lil for an extra 100ghz or stay put and turn down, I'll happily bring the voltage down, hah.



> I'm back on W10 LTSB, waiting for Steam Play to mature, so I can finally ditch Windows.


Honestly, as much as I really like W10 I'd probably do the same. I don't for the same reason. And also because the audio software I frequently use still has poor multithreading support on linux versions. Be sad to have a 2600 and not take full advantage of it for things like that. :/


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## biffzinker (Aug 26, 2018)

Mine will easily Post at 4.3 GHz then boot Windows without any BSOD but as soon I attempt any benchmark or stress test it freezes/bsod. One of the cores isn't having any it. Was messing around with 4 cores (2 disabled) got up to 4.2 GHz.


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## GoldenX (Aug 26, 2018)

Mmm, can't Ryzen Master set individual cores or CCXs? Haven't tested that.


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## Mussels (Aug 26, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> But wait... ...don't you have a _1700_ already? What're you complaining about over there?



GHz is king for many titles still


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## robot zombie (Aug 26, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> Mmm, can't Ryzen Master set individual cores or CCXs? Haven't tested that.


Sure looks like you can. Just looking at this software, I'm starting to think "Why didn't I try this?" Installed it the day I dropped in my 2600 and never looked at it again lol.



Mussels said:


> GHz is king for many titles still


Ahh, fair enough. I can see how zen 2 would be better for gaming, in general. I myself have just saw the difference a bump of just a few hundred gigs makes in 3dMark CPU tests. Definitely not to be ignored.


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## robot zombie (Sep 2, 2018)

I don't know why I say Zen 2 when I mean Zen+. They say only idiots complain about naming conventions. Trust me, I'm an idiot, so...

Sat down for my first real OC session with the 2600 today. Having a bit of a cooling problem atm. One of my two Corsair ML140's lost PWM last week and so I'm getting by with one intake fan. I think when I drop in the replacement I'll also try moving my GPU down to the middle slot, to make a little more room around the decently chunky Scythe Mugen MAX. I can see already I'm gonna have to do what I can to open up airflow in this S340 Elite.

May even go so far as to swap out the NZXT stock exhaust fans. Half considering a Noctua NF-A14 ippc 3000 for a CPU fan. I think that'll make more of a difference than anything. Noise shmoise. The fan that came with this cooler is quiet but I know a heatsink like this can pull more than this away - AMD's stock heatsinks look and perform like urinal cakes next to this deluxe sandwich that barely fits under the front panel. Guess it couldn't hurt to have something better than stock NZXT fans for exhaust, too. My worst performing fans are right up next to it in this midsize ATX while my best ones are furthest off... ...can't expect much to happen there.

All things considered temps are acceptable even with one less intake. With two and the stock fan I couldn't even stress test 4.1 ghz without pushing 90s. But I can tell I'm gonna need more Celsius if I'm to hit 4.3 on this build. Not a ton. Probably 10 degrees. The most I wanna see on average is 85C. Smaller peaks at 90 are I guess okay. I see 95 and I shut it down. 75 on midrange air makes me happy inside.

Here's where I'm at right now...




About what I expected. Prime95 temps are a little lower. Plenty of volage headroom, but just playing around, it's going to take a significant bump to hit 4.3. And by then temps will not be even remotely there. I can run stable at 4.25 ghz but it takes 1.325v. And I'm sure it's gonna increase exponentially every 25mhz the whole way up.

Honestly the Strix X370-F aint that bad. No PBO or anything, but the bios is otherwise really solid and responsive. The 6-phase VRM definitely has headroom left - one thing I really like about it is that it has a relatively beefy VRM with really quality components. The LLC is kind of annoying, though. Level 5 gets me closest, but it swings under AND over by .12, though it mostly sits pretty much right on point. Take it down to level 4 and it droops by almost .03. Upping the switching frequency helps a little. 450 helps level it out. Might almost totally flatten out at 550... ...but temps man. All in all I feel kinda meh about that. Best part is again the fact that it's a real 6-phase and temps are better. Still a good board to me! Not as fancy as the others, but solid core performance. All that's left to see is how it handles overclocking good memory.

Looking at upgrading that RAM. HyperX Fury 2400. Micron. It does okay. Don't wanna keep pushing SOC. I'm over 1.14 and 1.35 dram to get okay timings at 3000mhz and I'm sure it isn't helping temps at all - not to mention I can only see set voltage, not actual, so I have no idea what's really happening. Bah.

I can actually go higher with tighter timings and have it pass memtest. But oddly enough, the only way to keep CPU stable in that scenario is to up vcore... ...like a full tenth of a volt higher. Don't ask me, it just is. I spent hours on it. I was running into that problem initially, thinking "Geez why am I at 1.4 just to hit 4.1 with no errors!" I could lower clocks and get reasonabler voltages, but ultimately what allowed me to get under 1.3v for 4.225 with no errors was taking the ram down a little. And actually if I wanted to run a straight 4.2 I can do it at 2.65v with peak temps of 69 in IBT. Low 60's for everything else. Which honestly to me, is looking like my daily.


We'll see what the winds of case fans bring my way though. Not too hopeful for a true 4.3, but I can't know just yet.

I think this is it for now. I'll try again when I figure out what I want to do about my cooling situation. Though honestly the case is my biggest limitation right now. This CPU cooler can only do so much in such space.


Also, of all the benchmarks I've been running, IBT is the most brutal. If anything is gonna kick up errors, overheat, or straight up lock things up, it's that. Even small FFT's have a lower temp ceiling. P95 blend is a cakewalk... ...I can "pass" that at 4.3/1.35v with 1 error an hour, though I'm hitting 90C. I may do 3-4 linpacks before either freezing or entering thermal shutdown. With a little more cooling it could *seem* to work. Seem...


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## AlwaysHope (Sep 2, 2018)

@robot zombie, isn't Kingston HyperX Fury - mostly Hynix chips? according to QVL list for my B450 board, MSI think it is.


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## robot zombie (Sep 2, 2018)

Maybe they are now. According the SPD, these were made EOY 2017 and the DRAM manufacturer was Micron.

KHX2400C14D4/4G is the model.


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## AlwaysHope (Sep 2, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> I don't know why I say Zen 2 when I mean Zen+. They say only idiots complain about naming conventions. Trust me, I'm an idiot, so...
> 
> Sat down for my first real OC session with the 2600 today. Having a bit of a cooling problem atm. One of my two Corsair ML140's lost PWM last week and so I'm getting by with one intake fan. I think when I drop in the replacement I'll also try moving my GPU down to the middle slot, to make a little more room around the decently chunky Scythe Mugen MAX. I can see already I'm gonna have to do what I can to open up airflow in this S340 Elite.
> 
> ...




You know, that's the thing with stress testing OC Zen+, AMD quote 95C thermal limit.... but honestly, that is way above what older AM3+ chips were. Heck, my old FX-8350 topped out at 61C according to AMD & when I see my OC testing on 2600X hitting above 80C, I get nervous & shut it down.
I mean seriously, that is F******* HOT!

A die shrink maybe it is, but something just doesn't sit right with me when I see temps approaching 95C.

In any case, I'm thinking of adapting my old Cryorig R1 Ultimate to AM4 platform. That cooler did wonders for my supposedly "Hot" running OC FX-8350, that is the FX series were "Hot" according to the majority of the OC community.


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## Dinnercore (Sep 2, 2018)

AlwaysHope said:


> You know, that's the thing with stress testing OC Zen+, AMD quote 95C thermal limit.... but honestly, that is way above what older AM3+ chips were. Heck, my old FX-8350 topped out at 61C according to AMD & when I see my OC testing on 2600X hitting above 80C, I get nervous & shut it down.
> I mean seriously, that is F******* HOT!
> 
> A die shrink maybe it is, but something just doesn't sit right with me when I see temps approaching 95C.
> ...



I know how it feels when you are in this upper temp range and just feel uncomfortable with it. But the FX-Series CPUs had a real issue with their temp sensors reporting impossibly low temps. My FX that I had for 5 years reported 14-17°C in idle (normal air cooler) while the room temp was at 26°C. Under full load, with OC and some overvoltage it still claimed 56°C max with that 26°C ambient... That was when I decided to not try and OC this thing because you have no clue what really is going on in there.

For a stress test on Zen / Zen+, I would say peaks in the 80s are ok. 90s would scare me a bit, especially if it starts to spit out errors. If you game you will usually never see it get that high so might still be ok if you don´t render with this overnight. I would only worry about 80°C and up if you decide to use that CPU for 24/7 full workload e.g. rendering a big project. And if you do that, I would double check VRM temps, because that was what caused me to loose the first 3 overnight renders, since it climbed up over a certain point and became so unstable that it crashed. Not even 3 140mm intake and 3 exhaust fans for maximum airflow helped, because that heatsink was so flat on the board that I had to point the fan directly at it in order to work. Damn MSI, just 20 cents worth of aluminium more would have helped me out there.
To clear things up, that was on my 1800x build not the threadripper. My current system is just fine with the VRM.


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## robot zombie (Sep 2, 2018)

AlwaysHope said:


> You know, that's the thing with stress testing OC Zen+, AMD quote 95C thermal limit.... but honestly, that is way above what older AM3+ chips were. Heck, my old FX-8350 topped out at 61C according to AMD & when I see my OC testing on 2600X hitting above 80C, I get nervous & shut it down.
> I mean seriously, that is F******* HOT!
> 
> A die shrink maybe it is, but something just doesn't sit right with me when I see temps approaching 95C.


I know what you mean. It's sort of built into me that its never okay to let your CPU get hot enough to make spaghetti with... ...no rice cooker overclocks allowed in my house.

I'm working my way past it. In reality I'm sure it's not a huge deal... ...AMD knows what they're doing. For whatever reason the new ones are closer to intel, temperature-wise.
I would expect that if they spec them up to 95, then that shouldn't kill them all on its own. I'm sure running it there continuously would do some damage, though. For synthetic stress testing I try not to be upset. There has to be a good reason for it. Stay decently below that and it should be okay... ...is what I tell myself. I think just don't make a habit of going up to Tmax, or worse, set it up to reach that at absolute max loads, and it should be fine. If you ever see anything near that peak, it will be brief. Stress testing isn't exactly something you do all of the time! You just do it until you get things working how you want them to. And then you'll probably never do them again.

I also try to remind myself that the kinds of loads I'm actually putting on it won't produce temps nearly that high. If I'm seeing 85 in IBT or whatever, then I'm probably seeing closer to 70-75 under a max usage scenario for me - on average even lower than that. It's not gonna surge up to p95 temps out of nowhere while gaming or something. You'll know when that's coming. AFAIC if I needed to do some really heavy duty stuff, I could setup a toned-down profile in Ryzen Master. Or maybe just turn the thermostat down 



> In any case, I'm thinking of adapting my old Cryorig R1 Ultimate to AM4 platform. That cooler did wonders for my supposedly "Hot" running OC FX-8350, that is the FX series were "Hot" according to the majority of the OC community.


I was looking at that exact cooler, myself. That or a Scythe Fuma. If you get it set-up, lemme know how it works out for you. Personally the only reason I didn't get it is because it would basically be right up against both exhaust fans in my case. Just a little too big. That's why I went for the Mugen. Closer to an H5 but I like the look a little more. Not exactly Noctua territory, but not an H7 either. The H7 wouldn't do squat for this thing, and I'll never reccomend anything that size for a Ryzen 5 and up lol. After seeing what I've seen, it blows my mind that people actually claim things like that or the hyper 212 are okay for the upper shelf Ryzens. I just can't see something that small making a dent... ...specially for the X models.

I'm sure the R1 cools phenomenally, though. It better, being that huge!


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## GoldenX (Sep 2, 2018)

I had a 212+ and had to sell it because it's impossible to get those free Coolermaster AM4 brackets here... The Wraith Stealth is pretty nice, thankfully.


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## robot zombie (Sep 2, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> I had a 212+ and had to sell it because it's impossible to get those free Coolermaster AM4 brackets here... The Wraith Stealth is pretty nice, thankfully.


I'd wager that it's fairly comparable. For Ryzen 3, I'm sure it works out great - you probably get some overclocking headroom.

My experience with it on the 2600 is that as an out of the box cooler it's perfect. It runs stock settings very, very well. Temps reaching maybe upper 60's - lower 70's under max workload. But if you want to do any overclocking, it absolutely cannot handle it. Rapid thermal runaway at voltage needed for 4ghz.

Though to be fair, I think it's pretty cool that AMD actually provides a nice looking downdraft cooler that actually works well when used as intended. The Spire and Prism are legitimately impressive, too. Don't see that often at all. I remember when you basically took any CPU cooler you got in the box and immediately threw it in the trash. And people complained that it was included because it added to the price.


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## robot zombie (Sep 4, 2018)

Learning more about how Ryzen 2 behaves when pushed all of the time. I've managed to push 4.25 stable @ a whopping 1.375v (or to me that is, when 4.2 is actually perfectly stable at 1.3.) Went for 4.3 initially but quickly gave up on that. Mostly I've been sticking to preliminary stuff, with lots of space between. I run IBT standard and if it passes at at least somewhat reasonable temps, I make a note. Later, when my cooling is better, I can try more rigorous testing. At this point, I'm not keen on running even a couple of degrees above 80C for extended periods of time, or even doing it in repeated bursts. If those are the temps I'm stuck with, I won't be running those configurations past just seeing what is possible and grabbing some quick benches, so prolonged stability testing isn't necessary and probably does more harm than good.

A few observations...

1. Stability invariably tanks 10C before throttling territory. An overclock that peaks at 85C, no matter if it has enough voltage or not, will likely never be stable. Even one that only averages at 80 probably won't. I'm fairly sure at this point. A few times I passed 80C and almost slid by before spitting up an error and ending the test. This seems to be the hard line for this chip. Within 30 seconds of first passing 80C by even a degree or two, it falls apart. So with that in mind I'll be avoiding it entirely. Would probably advise others to do the same.

2. Droop actually matters less than temperatures. To hit my initial 4.225ghz I had LLC maxed (level 5) with almost perfectly flat voltage swing at the voltage needed for that. Just a tiny overshoot, I disregarded it until I went up up in either voltage or clock speed and the overshoot became exacerbated. Going up to the next bump of 4.25 with that sort of voltage curve and LLC took me past the above temp limit and it promptly crashed after hitting 85C a couple of times - two was enough for me to deduce that there's something to it and stop there. Even though voltage actually got significantly higher, it wasn't even close to passing. I mean, at peak I caught overshoots to 1.4! And you're telling me that's still not enough for 25mhz more? I don't fully buy that. I guess spikes like that in themselves could be to blame, but I don't know.

Now tonight, at level 4, with a switching frequency of 450 and that same 1.375 voltage set, I am drooping to 1.36ish instead of shooting to 1.4, and yet I am now passing IBT at 4.25 with a max temp of 80C. Food for thought - voltage may not be the real answer at the upper range. Not on air, anyway.

And I'm thinking it's also directly tied to clock speed. The higher up you get, the lower the max stable temp is probably gonna be. I'm starting to feel very confident that the reason I can't hit 4.3 has nothing to do with not pumping enough voltage. 1.38 or so may already be enough. But because power consumption increases with faster clocks, the temperature rise would cause me to fail any test, whether there's enough juice or not.

3. Unfortunately this all suggests to me that I will never quite hit 4.3 with this cooling setup. Here's hoping fixing my case flow situation does the trick. I should have my new fans tomorrow. Looking at replacing all of the other fans, too. A 120mm Fractal Venturi non-pwm for the rear, a 140mm non-pwm for the top, and a 140mm pwm for the cooler. Whether or not this is enough... ...well I have my doubts. It all comes down to how much only having one intake fan is holding me back. I'm not sure how much further I wanna take this just for entertainment. I'm at the point where I'm seriously thinking about swapping CPU coolers again... ...and that's not good! I swear it isn't! 


If I'm not talkin' nonsense here, a throttle point of 95 doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. That's a whole range of nearly 15C that this CPU has no business of operating in. Absolutely no benefit to ever even going there. I mean, nothing would be lost if it throttled at above 80C instead of 95C, you know? To me it just suggests that it might actually be kind of risky to ever even approach 95C. Or at least, knowing what I now know, I'll never allow it. Instability doesn't always mean degradation, but there's always instability from temperature degradation, so... yeah. Live and learn from my foolishness.


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## Mussels (Sep 4, 2018)

that more or less matches my 1700, i found that passing 75C hurt my stability more than anything else


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## GoldenX (Sep 4, 2018)

My 1200 barely touches 70 with 1.45v. It seems it's all about power consumption (thanks to less cores and cache working).


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## YautjaLord (Sep 4, 2018)

Lately i've been sitting @ 3.85GHz/1.375v stable, but Cinebench R15 gives me lower than usual 16xx/17xx score. 
Think it's time to clean the LCS kit, tubes n stuff, y'know?  Other than that all peaches, honey n chocolates.


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## robot zombie (Sep 4, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> My 1200 barely touches 70 with 1.45v. It seems it's all about power consumption (thanks to less cores and cache working).


Eugh!! That would make Prime95's start button my new emergency shutdown 

But yeah, the current load is way higher with infinity fabric working hard and each core itself kicking up 20-30w. Starts to add up real quick approaching 1.4v. I'll have to look at how much current's actually flowing during IBT's little 10C temperature surges next time. I think the highest wattage I've seen so far is around 180, just at a random glance. Probably gone higher, even. I bet if I disabled SMT I could push another 100mhz before temperature ceiling at least.


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## Mussels (Sep 4, 2018)

thats because of the lower core count, when i had a 1400 (the ex-wife has that now) it ran so much colder than the 1700, 1.45V on it was possible on medium air cooling and that was instant throttle when i got the 1700 on the same setup


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## YautjaLord (Sep 4, 2018)

Forgot to mention - SoC is at 1.0v out of max 1.1v & LLCs for vCore & SoC are both @ Turbo. So far with these tweaks R15 seems to stable, RAM is at 3200MHz/1.35v.


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## robot zombie (Sep 4, 2018)

Mussels said:


> thats because of the lower core count, when i had a 1400 (the ex-wife has that now) it ran so much colder than the 1700, 1.45V on it was possible on medium air cooling and that was instant throttle when i got the 1700 on the same setup


Yeah, that's my experience with 1200/2600 switch as well. Also worth noting that the 1200 required a little more voltage to hold the speeds I'm at now. I know I was passing 1.4v to reach an actually stable 4.3. Maybe I was unlucky. I thought it did well, though. Didn't really look much at what other people were getting. All the same, a Cryorig H7 kept it happy just fine. Really liked that about it, actually. Now I've got a significantly larger Scythe Mugen MAX and it struggles to quite get me to a reasonable stopping point with voltage.


YautjaLord said:


> Forgot to mention - SoC is at 1.0v out of max 1.1v & LLCs for vCore & SoC are both @ Turbo. So far with these tweaks R15 seems to stable, RAM is at 3200MHz/1.35v.


Sounds about where you wanna be. I wish I was at 1v SOC to hit my sad 18-17-17-38, 3000Mhz ram OC. This ram is pretty lackluster... ...it takes 1.14 SOC, which actually hurts temps more than one would expect. Such a narrow window for acceptable levels there. Technically safe, but not where anyone wants to be. So much so that I'm considering going down to 2800. I can shorten the timings then, but I'd probably keep them up a tick just to get SOC back down closer to 1v. If that gets me a CPU clock boost it might make sense.

I max my LLC for vcore too. Ryzen seems to be a droopy moof... ...maybe due to current demands - infinity fabric consumes roughly as much power as two whole physical cores do on the higher thread-count models, iirc. Maybe it's just the nature of the architecture in general. With the switching frequency bumped up to 450-500 and LLC maxed it holds pretty true for my 4.2 OC. Even at level 4 the droop is still silly. But then... as I get to voltages/clocks past that, it starts to overshoot and I have to drop down a level and live with some droop, heh. At really high voltage, lowering CPU LLC is a little cooler and more stable ime. Only because I start hitting the temperature ceiling past 4.2, though.

SOC seems a lot better, so I stay at level 4. It droops a little, but it doesn't really fluctuate nearly as much so it doesn't make sense to add heat there. Anything I can do to lower SOC voltage. I can't quite hold 3200 even with it maxed anyway. 3000 is fine with it. I also don't want to risk overshoot, there.

Also worth mentioning, setting power duty control to extreme helps a bit with power stability. VRM temps went up a bit, but core temps didn't. Of course power phase controls are set to extreme because efficiency is completely out the window anyway.

Only one I don't mess with is current capability... ...haven't tripped it yet and I'd like for over-current protection to work lol


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## biffzinker (Sep 4, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> Forgot to mention - SoC is at 1.0v out of max 1.1v


SoC voltage for this 2600X - 0.95


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## Mussels (Sep 4, 2018)

so SoC voltage raises CPU temps a lot? i think i slapped mine to 1.1v and forgot about it


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## robot zombie (Sep 4, 2018)

Mussels said:


> so SoC voltage raises CPU temps a lot? i think i slapped mine to 1.1v and forgot about it


Seems like it can. Id only downclock ram and drop SOC and I would lose 7 or 8 degrees with my settings.

But only past 1.1 for me. Otherwise it doesnt seem to matter.


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## YautjaLord (Sep 5, 2018)

Will soon start testing these tweaks with P95's Small FFTs, 2 maybe 3h run, not b4 doin proper tube cleaning though. Or maybe even replace my current water block with my monoblock - time to test this beast, record & upload it. Nickel base, comes with Thermal Grizzly TIM, rest is taken cared of.  Even have 3+ litres of distilled water. 
Will still have to clean up tubes & rest, fluid turned to light red/pink-ish from dark red it used to be, also idle & load temps jumped up a degree or few.


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## GoldenX (Sep 7, 2018)

Optimizing the RAM overclock. Progress so far for keeping 3333MHz is using 1.0v for the SoC, and 1.35v for the RAM itself, but with very high latencies, 18-20-20-38.
All for that Infinity Fabric speed...
The jump from 2400 16-16-16-39 to 3333 18-20-20-38 in Breath of the Wild is from 21 FPS to 26. Stupid AMD OpenGL drivers, a Fermi gets over 60...


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## robot zombie (Sep 7, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> Optimizing the RAM overclock. Progress so far for keeping 3333MHz is using 1.0v for the SoC, and 1.35v for the RAM itself, but with very high latencies, 18-20-20-38.
> All for that Infinity Fabric speed...
> The jump from 2400 16-16-16-39 to 3333 18-20-20-38 in Breath of the Wild is from 21 FPS to 26. Stupid AMD OpenGL drivers, a Fermi gets over 60...


Haa I'm putting myself through the same crap. The increase looks a lot better in benchmarks than in reality lol. Though honestly I think 5 FPS isn't bad, assuming Breath of the Wild isn't very CPU bound to begin with.

The most I can do before the SOC starts going wonky is 3133 @ 18-18-18-38 - ethernet starts going down and crap like that. I can increase timings to hold 3200 or even 3333, but latency there is the dropoff where performance actually starts to suffer. I have to push 1.45 DRAM and just over 1.15 SOC with heavy LLC to make it happen at current settings. Maybe if I went higher I could do it... ...doubt it though. This is dirt cheap micron DRAM. Not effing worth running stupid high power levels just to polish that turd.

I don't even know why I'm doing it. I'm gonna get some 3600 17-18-18-38 B-Die tomorrow. If it'll run that at stock settings I tell myself I'll be happy, though I'll probably try to knock down timings and/or up clocks anyway 

On the flipside, nobody on userbenchmark has gotten this ram overclocked like mine. I broke the scale! Whoops lol. So proud 




In other news, I think I've settled into my daily overclock with 4.25GHz @ 1.33v. Realistically it's hitting 1.319v under load. Linpacks cap at 80C. Prime95 generally caps at 65C in blend, jumping up to 78 when it hits those small FFTs. Having two front intakes helped a lot. I'd have liked to hit 4.3 GHz, but to be securely where I am at such a low voltage isn't too shabby! Runs awesomely cool and quiet while gaming. And who knows, maybe I can get stability up with the new ram and push 4.3GHz then - I do feel like this RAM is probably holding me back. I bet I could still find stability problems with it if I really tried. Either way... right now, the extra 50MHz costs too much more voltage and heat to be worth it. Still... definitely got a good one, here. Don't think I've seen any non-x 2600's overclock this well on a modest air setup. This build just gets better all of the time


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## Mussels (Sep 7, 2018)

my previous 3770k system was like that, seeing 120% on everything except one SSD
i mean to be fair, i'm not shocked no one else delidded a 3770k and ran liquid metal TIM on it, that didnt exist at the time the chips were popular
gunna run it on my ryzen now and see how she goes

edit:
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/10702816


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## YautjaLord (Sep 7, 2018)

Bad news: i suspect it's either TIM (Thermal Grizzly, 40mg+ or something) or fluid don't do their job properly. Did bunch of tweaks & stuff yesterday, like raising voltages on vCore, SoC, RAM etc.... only to find out it's not stable @ 3.9GHz in Cinebench R15, even had 3 or so BSODs. Back to 3.85GHz/1.375v, LLCs @ Turbo (tweaked those as well to Extreme). Will be putting the EK-FB GA-AX370 monoblock to test throughout these holidays. Could it be that i applied no enough TIM? Spead it all over CPU with defunct plastic card.  Stay tuned, it definitely doesn't end here.


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## robot zombie (Sep 7, 2018)

Mussels said:


> my previous 3770k system was like that, seeing 120% on everything except one SSD
> i mean to be fair, i'm not shocked no one else delidded a 3770k and ran liquid metal TIM on it, that didnt exist at the time the chips were popular
> gunna run it on my ryzen now and see how she goes
> 
> ...


I think I get it now.

I think that percentage is actually based on a static index. Sort of the standard metric - perhaps some kind of average of all different makes and iterations of a component. A score of less than 100% means you are below that mean index. A score over 100% simply means you're above the average of all the different varieties of that component tested. I have a few scoring over 100% myself. Just means it's significantly above average relative to literally everything in the database for that type of part. First gen to current gen and everything in between.

Meanwhile the percentile score in green represents your positioning in the performance range for that specific make and model part. If you score in the 96th percentile for a particular part, 4% of all people testing that exact part score higher. 100% would mean nobody with the same part recorded a score higher than you. 50% would mean half of all people scored higher than you.

http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/10684133

My Ryzen 2600 is pretty much the king of all 2600's, on userbenchmark 

I don't think it's the best comparison. No control for operating conditions on the other end. What if it's not hardware holding the bench back on the low end? ...meaning the actual indexes would be higher and the discrepancies between best and worst lower. It also really bugs me that it only saves the first bench for any given machine. The first bench I did was stock and scores were drastically lower. The results I just linked don't get factored in. They do consider overclocks, so it's valid. Just silly, because what I first scored isn't what the machine I'm running now is actually scoring. It's not an accurate reflection of real-world performance. And because of this poor choice on their end, I'm betting their whole index is actually completely off track with what the actual machines people are running are capable of.

Doing that arbitrarily kinda really skews from the reality. I'm sure many people have scored higher than my 2600 did, but it wasn't counted because it only saves the first result into the archive, before they overclocked, for no reason at all other than to make sure their database is as unrealistic as possible, heh. If they wanted to avoid redundancy, I think when you do a new run for an already tested machine, the new results should cancel out the old ones. More realistic comparisons to what performance people are actually getting that way. As it is now, it'd be like if only your first ever 3Dmark score counted and the LN2 run you did months later never actually happened. Stupid as hell. Why bother if you can't get a REAL comparison?


----------



## GoldenX (Sep 7, 2018)

http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/10703580
Poor 270X, don't bully her.


----------



## robot zombie (Sep 7, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/10703580
> Poor 270X, don't bully her.


Hey now, don't be that way. She's doing very well for her age.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 7, 2018)

quick test of temps

3.8Ghz, 1.285V (HWinfo64 Vcore voltage-  1.3v bios/CPU-Z)





about to lower SoC and test temps
Third column is the max temp, so 64C max for 10 passes in IBT

dropped from 1.15v to 1.05v and see no stability issues... i simply dont need it for this ram i guess.






saved me 2C off the CPU in a 'somewhat' memory stressful test, so i'll roll with that.


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## GoldenX (Sep 7, 2018)

Next in line, lower timmings.
Max. temp. at 1,45v was 63º, it's the stock Wraith Stealth plus MX2. A reduction from 70º with the generic toothpaste.


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## robot zombie (Sep 7, 2018)

Mussels said:


> quick test of temps
> 
> 3.8Ghz, 1.285V (HWinfo64 Vcore voltage-  1.3v bios/CPU-Z)
> 
> ...


Yeah, it helps a little. Maybe more of a temp difference for me because at the time CPU voltage was higher, so temperatures probably rose easier... ...or just capping out on cooling capability. 

Still, I feel like when you find yourself pushing it up like me just to get in the ballpark of 3000, there are bigger issues with the RAM. Mine have damaged contacts. It's a wonder they work at all. If I can get by with 1.15, most people can probably manage less, heh. Decent ram really doesn't need any more than 1.1v SoC to hold up.

I noticed you're going by the motherboard "CPU" sensor in HWiNFO. I don't know if it's the case for the 1700, but I know with the 2600 that particular reading is actually socket temperature, not core. Core temps can be wayy higher. Look for tctl/tdie, or if they're split into two, tdie. Tdie is what Ryzen Master reports as the core temp. Should be just above the mobo sensors.

Just something to watch out for. Maybe it's different with your mobo. I think it's universal to all Ryzen CPU's, though.


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## Mussels (Sep 7, 2018)

i just picked the first temp reading i found for a before and after result

Maybe its the liquid metal TIM, but those temps are basically identical here


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## GoldenX (Sep 7, 2018)

Speaking about RAM, have you noticed that if you use slots 0-2 you get a lot lower frequencies than using slots 1-3?


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## Mussels (Sep 7, 2018)

since the raven ridge bios came out, my board actually pops up with a massive warning screen if you have the ram in the 'un optimised' slots


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## robot zombie (Sep 7, 2018)

Mussels said:


> i just picked the first temp reading i found for a before and after result
> 
> Maybe its the liquid metal TIM, but those temps are basically identical here


Well then. I can tell you for me they're like 15C apart at times. I'm not using LM though... ...just MX-4. A lot of times they're similar, but when I go into max load, tctl/tdie takes the lead pretty quickly. I dunno maybe some boards have that fixed in the bios, now. News to me if that's true.

RAM slots... ...I can't even try that with my RAM. For whatever reason they'll only seat in slots 1 and 3. And only in a particular order. Don't know why, but it's the case with 3 different boards. Contacts are screwed up in an oddly particular way I guess. I'll try it with my new sticks when I get em, though. I can see how it might matter, though it probably depends on the PCB.


----------



## robot zombie (Sep 9, 2018)

Got my b-die today. Splurged a little on two 8gb sticks of the fancy TridentZ 3600MHz CL17 sticks. Not the biggest fan of RGB but they're b-die and they do look really nice. Maybe not the BEST b-die out there, but pretty good. I'm more excited about it than I should be. That may partially be because I just paid $220 for 16gb of ram when I already had two 4gb sticks of another make. If I didn't love it, it'd hurt me badly. 


My mobo specifies slot A2 and B2 for two sticks. If you're looking straight at the board normally, going left to right, it goes A1, A2, B1, B2. Tried slot pair 1 and had trouble getting 3200 to work, though ultimately I squeezed by. Now, in pair 2 I'm running stable w/ 3466MHz/CL16 @ 1.4v DRAM and 1.1v SOC. Probably not even the best they can do, just the first config that worked 

So there's something to it, yeah. I believe it, too. If things like PCB thickness can affect RAM performance, then I can see how length of the leads or general circuit path could, too.


Honestly, pretty happy with this RAM. I expected maybe 3200 without serious tweaking - I mostly wanted to upgrade to 16GB and stay with two sticks instead of adding two more 4GB sticks and slowing down my already slowish RAM. So 3466MHz ain't that bad to me! Gotta be something like a 20% raw RAM performance increase, even if overall system performance doesn't go up by nearly that much.

I'll definitely be diving into the masochistic tedium and hell of RAM sub-timing tweaking, though. Gotta get your money's worth when you shell out for binned RAM. I want that advertised bandwidth, mannn.

Limited experience with the Ryzen DRAM Calculator proved promising. Thank god for that. I had to input my own latency values, as the XMP values the app spit out didn't match my sticks, but the timings it fed me for 3600 almost got me there. It booted and ran stuff... coulda fooled me into thinking it was stable. Couldn't do that stock... ...not to mention auto timings pushed primaries up to the mid 20's  Probably a little painstaking twiddling away from actually getting there just using the calculator and my brain.

I also haven't played with D.O.C.P. yet. But at this point I really have little faith in anything hands off to give the most optimal performance at the most sensible settings. But in the case of RAM, stupidly tedious as it can be to mess with dozens of cryptic settings, I'd welcome that option if it really worked to my liking. But I really don't think it's going to get me to the level I want... ...or more just know I can get to on my own and do it better, even if it's more time for not that much gain. It at least presents a great opportunity to learn about how current stuff works. I'm tempted to pass on D.O.C.P..

Realistically, I feel like I should aspire for a max of 3400MHz with tightest possible timings. Hell, if I can drop primaries by 2 points from 3400 to 3200, I'll probably do 3200. Never really saw much suggesting where the line is with Ryzen... ...where the infinity fabric boost is overcome by slack in timings. A little here and there, but no consensus optimal range. I assume overall latency still matters, and past a certain point bandwidth just doesn't help as much as overall lower latency would. I mean, if you think of RAM bandwidth as a bottleneck for infinity fabric, then there has to be a point where you blow that open and cross over into the zone of nothing but performance expenses. I just kinda assume anything over 3000MHz is generally good. Is that fair?

What I'm most curious about is if, after I get this setup and stable, I can actually get to the full 4.3GHz with my 2600, without increasing voltage too much. I really do feel like the RAM I had in before was holding it back. Contacts were damaged, and it wasn't the best to begin with. I was pushing the limit hard - it was never meant to do that lol. And I feel like if there was a point where stability would break down, it'd be that. I've already seen how even slight RAM instability can actually increase the need for more CPU vcore to keep the whole thing going in stress tests. I've hit CPU clock speed walls by overclocking my RAM too much. I was able to hit 4.3GHz before, but only by clocking my old ram back down to stock. 2666 would work, too, but only with too much vcore to the CPU.

Can anybody chime in on their experiences with b-die and Ryzen chips? I'll be playing with it a lot soon and putting that out there, but it's always good to have others' experiences in hand going into something like this.


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## Mussels (Sep 10, 2018)

got my ram to 3400 with no changes at all and on the lower SoC voltage

i just couldnt leave it at stock any longer, felt wrong


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## GoldenX (Sep 10, 2018)

I only know that b-dies are the best.
Gonna try lower latencies, brb.

Ok, 3333MHz 16-18-18-36 works at 1.35v, and 1v SoC.


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## cdawall (Sep 10, 2018)

Guess I can finally join in on this. Currently working on memory tweaking, this seems to be all the all core setup can handle.


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## GoldenX (Sep 10, 2018)

I've got the need. 
The need for CORES.


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## cdawall (Sep 10, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> I've got the need.
> The need for CORES.


I need some Samsung b dies. The hynix stuff I have is letting me down


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## AlwaysHope (Sep 10, 2018)

16GB kit Team T-Force Dark incoming this week, 3000MHz+ OC fun!



cdawall said:


> I need some Samsung b dies. The hynix stuff I have is letting me down



Know what you mean, but they are cheap to purchase on Kingston HyperX sticks atm.

Don't know about other enthusiasts on here, but I like to keep at least 2 sets of ram for my OC rig, 1 for "emergencies" & the other for top performance.

Can never trust anything with new tech to be 100% reliable AND stable always...


----------



## cdawall (Sep 10, 2018)

AlwaysHope said:


> Know what you mean, but they are cheap to purchase on Kingston HyperX sticks atm.
> 
> Don't know about other enthusiasts on here, but I like to keep at least 2 sets of ram for my OC rig, 1 for "emergencies" & the other for top performance.
> 
> Can never trust anything with new tech to be 100% reliable AND stable always...








This looks like were I am settling out. 3000 causing BSoD at the same timings which should be good for 3200+ on these Hynix MFR sticks.


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## AlwaysHope (Sep 10, 2018)

cdawall said:


> This looks like were I am settling out. 3000 causing BSoD at the same timings which should be good for 3200+ on these Hynix MFR sticks.



TR2 platform, I'm only judging my Hynix chip ram on B450 board. How much Vdimm you got on those?


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## cdawall (Sep 10, 2018)

AlwaysHope said:


> TR2 platform, I'm only judging my Hynix chip ram on B450 board. How much Vdimm you got on those?



1.39v is what stilt recommended in his MFR guide, so that's what they have. I could probably notch them back to 1.35 at this point.


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## robot zombie (Sep 10, 2018)

B-die is nice. Just seems to keep going where my micron just wouldn't. Takes a lot of coaxing but the potential is there. Really going in on sub-timings seems to be a must, though. I'm slowly whittling it down to where I want to be. Definitely cool to see it just boot right up at 3600. Not sure I can get that to run reasonably, but still pretty neat coming from stuff I could barely, and never consistently get 3200 out of with much looser timings.



AlwaysHope said:


> Know what you mean, but they are cheap to purchase on Kingston HyperX sticks atm.
> 
> Don't know about other enthusiasts on here, but I like to keep at least 2 sets of ram for my OC rig, 1 for "emergencies" & the other for top performance.
> 
> Can never trust anything with new tech to be 100% reliable AND stable always...


I never mean to, but it happens that way a lot. And it definitely feels good.

The HyperX I have isn't bad as just kind of the "steady/it works" option. Very affordable.


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## YautjaLord (Sep 10, 2018)

Goddangit CDA, me with 1700X & 1770cb+, 2990X is not even in Israel (IsraHell, ), or 2000 series TRs for that matter. 1950X is the closest & prices range in few thousands of sheckels & don't have tendency to drop. How do you get one for free along with 2700X & 8700K?  jk


----------



## Flyordie (Sep 10, 2018)

cdawall said:


> I need some Samsung b dies. The hynix stuff I have is letting me down



There are some cheap $390 (2x8GB kits) of Teamgroup B-Die on Newegg.
Team Dark Pro 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model TDPGD416G3200HC14ADC01       

$189 per kit. 

Which is just slightly higher than the $380 shipped I paid for my 4x8GB TridentZ RGB B-die kit a couple weeks ago.


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## YautjaLord (Sep 10, 2018)

@cdawall:

About the b-die RAM, get Flare X 3200 or 3466MHz CL14 & have zero issues. Running them @ 3200MHz/CL14/1.35v, 3.85GHz/1.37v on my 1700X & no issues, 3.9GHz needs 1.4v though & not stable in P95 Small FFTs test, but i digress.


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## cdawall (Sep 10, 2018)

Yea I might sit on these until the rumored single sided 16gb stuff hits.


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## btarunr (Sep 11, 2018)

Very close to picking up a 2600X for my main rig. How many of you have 32 GB (2x 16 GB) memory running 2666 or higher stable?


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## Johan45 (Sep 11, 2018)

Don't know about here but if you get some "good" Samsung "B" you shouldn't have any issues with 3200+ even on 16 GB sticks. I would look at these, similar timings to the FlareX  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...00327642 600561668 600546709&Manufactory=8476


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## bencrutz (Sep 11, 2018)

btarunr said:


> Very close to picking up a 2600X for my main rig. How many of you have 32 GB (2x 16 GB) memory running 2666 or higher stable?



here's what i got




used to run at 3000 with older BIOS tho.


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## Vya Domus (Sep 14, 2018)

Finally my 1700X arrived, unfortunately the Corsair Vengeance LPX kit I got doesn't want to run at anything above 2400Mhz , just by selecting the XMP profile haven't touched timings and whatnot. I guess it's not Samsung stuff, I read not all of these Corsair kits are, oh well.


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## robot zombie (Sep 14, 2018)

@Vya Domus Ryzen is super picky about timings. Standard XMP profiles and auto settings just dont work. Not for me anyway. I've never seen anything this picky. Hopefully this gets sorted one day.

You could always try the Ryzen DRAM Calculator. It works with a lot of different types of RAM. On that page youll find instructions on how to see what manufacturer and die your DRAM actually is and get your latencies for the calculator. May still squeeze a lil more out, even if it's not b-die.


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## GoldenX (Sep 14, 2018)

Are you on the latest BIOS?


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## Vya Domus (Sep 14, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> @Vya Domus Ryzen is super picky about timings. Standard XMP profiles and auto settings just dont work. Not for me anyway. I've never seen anything this picky. Hopefully this gets sorted one day.
> 
> You could always try the Ryzen DRAM Calculator. It works with a lot of different types of RAM. On that page youll find instructions on how to see what manufacturer and die your DRAM actually is and get your latencies for the calculator. May still squeeze a lil more out, even if it's not b-die.



I know the deal, I'll look into it when I get the time. Can't be bothered for now the thing flies anyway. The most impressive thing is the power consumption and the temps, under load with my Katana 4 it barely gets to mid 50s. When I was gaming or something of the sort it was like sitting next to a furnace with my old FX 6300.



GoldenX said:


> Are you on the latest BIOS?



Not even sure, apparently the AGESA version is 1.0.0.4.


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## GoldenX (Sep 15, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> Not even sure, apparently the AGESA version is 1.0.0.4.



Same here. Try increasing the SoC voltage, I need 1v for anything over 3133MHz.


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## Mussels (Sep 15, 2018)

Soc to 1.10 or 1.15, and update dat bios

BIOS updates on my board let me get much higher ram speeds at lower voltages every time they update AGESA


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## GoldenX (Sep 15, 2018)

Is't that a bit high? I though you needed that for over 3600MHz.


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## robot zombie (Sep 15, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> Is't that a bit high? I though you needed that for over 3600MHz.


Eh... 1.15v is a little up there. Nothing too unreasonable. I know b-die will typically boot 3600 at 1.15 with the proper timings, but other modules may differ. With my micron I needed that to boot 3000 lol.

And actually, I'm looking at printouts I generated with the calculator and it is calling for SOC max as high as 1.175 for b-die to run 3600.

Though I guess it's also worth saying that 3400/CL16 is currently working for my b-die with SOC @ 1.125V.



Vya Domus said:


> I know the deal, I'll look into it when I get the time. Can't be bothered for now the thing flies anyway. The most impressive thing is the power consumption and the temps, under load with my Katana 4 it barely gets to mid 50s. When I was gaming or something of the sort it was like sitting next to a furnace with my old FX 6300.


Definitely, that's the first thing I noticed when I first dropped in my 2600. Even with the stock fan and running the stock boost, it was pretty fast and efficient. Took a lot to get that little fan turning. I think that's where they really shine. As much as I like to overclock I always recommend people try running their Zen and Zen+ chips stock first, because they're so well balanced that if you choose the right one, you might not need to OC at all and can instead take full advantage of those really low base TDP's. I would never tell anyone to not do that if they're considering it. That's part of the money's worth!

And yes, night and day from an FX 6300, in so so many ways


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## AlwaysHope (Sep 15, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> Eh... 1.15v is a little up there. Nothing too unreasonable. I know b-die will typically boot 3600 at 1.15 with the proper timings, but other modules may differ. With my micron I needed that to boot 3000 lol.
> 
> And actually, I'm looking at printouts I generated with the calculator and it is calling for SOC max as high as 1.175 for b-die to run 3600.
> 
> Though I guess it's also worth saying that 3400/CL16 is currently working for my b-die with SOC @ 1.25V.



Thanks for those tips about SoC, haven't played with it much yet using the new 16GB kit of Team Dark Pro I got now. Still refining Tras & Trc atm with memtest64 running. But yeah, a lot to explore with this DDR4 Overclocking.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 15, 2018)

For comparison when my board was new i needed 1.15V to get 2667Mhz stable, now i can do 3400Mhz with 1.10V

These AGESA updates make a massive difference


----------



## robot zombie (Sep 15, 2018)

AlwaysHope said:


> Thanks for those tips about SoC, haven't played with it much yet using the new 16GB kit of Team Dark Pro I got now. Still refining Tras & Trc atm with memtest64 running. But yeah, a lot to explore with this DDR4 Overclocking.


Hey man, don't take my word for it! I can only speak to what works for me with my RAM and mobo. You have a 400-series while I have an x370. Might be different for all I know.

Honestly I really do recommend playing with the Ryzen DRAM Timing Calculator. I'm finding that it's such an indispensable tool. Though even if you don't, there's an interesting little logic plot included that's actually very revealing and helpful for working out stable overclocks. It definitely clarified a few things for me about how certain things are related... ...like how if CPU voltage is too low, sometimes the memory will take a dump, even if the voltage is actually enough for the CPU itself. This plot reflects that, among many other relationships between different settings and different types of issues. Good for working out when, why, and how to change what.


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## AlwaysHope (Sep 15, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> Hey man, don't take my word for it! I can only speak to what works for me with my RAM and mobo. You have a 400-series while I have an x370. Might be different for all I know.
> 
> Honestly I really do recommend playing with the Ryzen DRAM Timing Calculator. I'm finding that it's such an indispensable tool. Though even if you don't, there's an interesting little logic plot included that's actually very revealing and helpful for working out stable overclocks. It definitely clarified a few things for me about how certain things are related... ...like how if CPU voltage is too low, sometimes the memory will take a dump, even if the voltage is actually enough for the CPU itself. This plot reflects that, among many other relationships between different settings and different types of issues. Good for working out when, why, and how to change what.View attachment 106902



Oh now your complicating it...lol... 
Missed you got X370, lots of info on it over here though Link


----------



## robot zombie (Sep 15, 2018)

AlwaysHope said:


> Oh now your complicating it...lol...
> Missed you got X370, lots of info on it over here though Link


LOL it just is complicated man! I'm telling you I have a decent mobo and a really good set of RAM and it's still not drop and go, heh. It really, really pays more and more the deeper you go. Whether you have the fastest RAM or not, there are many hidden gains to be had if you're willing to go through the tedium. The hard part is getting organized and working up that routine. It's the same as overclocking your CPU, only with more conditions and possibilities.

Like I don't disagree with you at all. I am a super nitty-gritty, get-down-to-it kind of person... ...just naturally on adderall. I love to split hairs. But even for me, it's a lot. There is something oddly satisfying about it, though. So much to unlock and unravel.

And thank you, I am still working my way through that thread lol. I intend to read all of it


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## GoldenX (Sep 15, 2018)

First BIOS I needed 1,10v SoC to get 3133, now I'm at 1v for 3333. "Fine Wine" meme?


----------



## AlwaysHope (Sep 15, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> First BIOS I needed 1,10v SoC to get 3133, now I'm at 1v for 3333. "Fine Wine" meme?



Just to be clear, that's with the system in your System Specs?


----------



## GoldenX (Sep 15, 2018)

AlwaysHope said:


> Just to be clear, that's with the system in your System Specs?


Yup. Cheapest out here.


----------



## Dinnercore (Sep 15, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> @Vya Domus Ryzen is super picky about timings. Standard XMP profiles and auto settings just dont work. Not for me anyway. I've never seen anything this picky. Hopefully this gets sorted one day.
> 
> You could always try the Ryzen DRAM Calculator. It works with a lot of different types of RAM. On that page youll find instructions on how to see what manufacturer and die your DRAM actually is and get your latencies for the calculator. May still squeeze a lil more out, even if it's not b-die.



I read that a lot, but so far the only trouble I had with Ryzen and RAM was the lack of motherboard settings from MSI. Until recently it did not allow any subtiming control.
BUT I had my 1800x nearly since day one and my board came with the very first bios and AGESA, I could plug my ram in and enable XMP - done. No issue. Now this year I went over to threadripper and instead of B-die I got Hynix memory, but the same deal. Plug and play with XMP. Only OC past the XMP setting is a bit tricky on the hynix. Voltage doesn´t seem to help much. 
My 1800x on B-die however works like a charm. SoC 1.075V, DRAM 1.36V, 3200MHz CL-14-13-13. With 1.45V I can either get a little bit tighter main timings or higher frequency. 

Bios-Updates on the X370 didn´t change anything for me, but on the X399 the latest updates made it even more difficult to get OC further then XMP-settings. With the earliest bios I could run my 2933 quad kit @ 3066 and slightly better timings then XMP, but with the latest AGESA I can no longer get above 3000.


----------



## robot zombie (Sep 15, 2018)

Dinnercore said:


> I read that a lot, but so far the only trouble I had with Ryzen and RAM was the lack of motherboard settings from MSI. Until recently it did not allow any subtiming control.
> BUT I had my 1800x nearly since day one and my board came with the very first bios and AGESA, I could plug my ram in and enable XMP - done. No issue. Now this year I went over to threadripper and instead of B-die I got Hynix memory, but the same deal. Plug and play with XMP. Only OC past the XMP setting is a bit tricky on the hynix. Voltage doesn´t seem to help much.
> My 1800x on B-die however works like a charm. SoC 1.075V, DRAM 1.36V, 3200MHz CL-14-13-13. With 1.45V I can either get a little bit tighter main timings or higher frequency.
> 
> Bios-Updates on the X370 didn´t change anything for me, but on the X399 the latest updates made it even more difficult to get OC further then XMP-settings. With the earliest bios I could run my 2933 quad kit @ 3066 and slightly better timings then XMP, but with the latest AGESA I can no longer get above 3000.


Man... I don't know if you're lucky, or not! Sounds like you got a pretty good set of b-die though! I'm jealous. Don't think I'll quite get there on this board. Probably gonna try for 3600 CL16 and then maybe take it up a little more with BCLK nonsense. I'm having pretty good luck getting speed up a little more without messing with timings via a little BCLK boost and CPU multiplier decrease.

And yeah, BIOS updates haven't made a huge difference on my X370, either. It's always been solid. Though those are more mature than the 400-series boards and have been for a while, so memory issues should've long since been ironed out.

Come to think of it Ryzen 2 owners should have an easier time in general. It was Ryzen 1 that used to have all of those issues with crazy latency/slow ram speed, ram incompatibility, etc. But I remember that being fixed a long time ago. Anybody running on established hardware should have access to as much potential as they're gonna, especially on Ryzen 2. I'd imagine only those on the new X399 and 400-series boards would have issues. And even then, we should be hitting a point where that stuff is fixed... ...I'd hope :/

Just realized I made a MISTAKE up there. I said 1.25 SOC, which is ridiculous. What I meant was *1.125*


----------



## biffzinker (Sep 15, 2018)

Been tempted to try the Ryzen 3 1200 I still have since the minor incompatiblity issue I ran into with the Teamgroup 8GB kit. Wonder if I could get a better Oc than 3,825 MHz with the PNY kit. Could also try out the 2600X stock cooler.


----------



## robot zombie (Sep 17, 2018)

Not making much headway with my RAM. Beware the 3600/CL17 8GB b-die kits from Gskill. It's still b-die so it's still a great performer, but compared to the 3200/CL14 and 3600/CL15, it's not nearly as fast. I'm pretty much hitting a wall at 3466/CL16. Timings really don't like going much lower than that, even at 3200, it's CL15. I knew it cost a little less for a reason...




This is 1.41v DRAM and 1.1125 SoC. Maybe with much more voltage and a ton more messing around I can squeeze out 3600 at CL16, or something like it. But honestly on this setup I doubt it's even possible to get it stable past that speed.

I also discovered that my mobo doesn't have the new AGESA bios update available yet... ...I was an update behind when the new one came out, so I thought I had the new one when really I had only just gotten 1.0.0.2.

I shouldn't bitch, still beats my old 2x4GB micron kit running at 3000 CL18. Even the worst b-die is the worst of the best


----------



## Mussels (Sep 17, 2018)

pretty sure i read that after a certain Mhz (3200?) ryzen only runs on even numbers for the timings, so that might be why you're having issues there


----------



## Vya Domus (Sep 17, 2018)

So apparently the kit I have is indeed B-die but from Micron. Still no dice, nothing works above 2400mhz, I'm starting to believe the board itself might not be that brilliant.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 17, 2018)

And here i am with hynix C-Die, but doing alright :/

What SoC voltage are you running? latest BIOS?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 17, 2018)

Mussels said:


> pretty sure i read that after a certain Mhz (3200?) ryzen only runs on even numbers for the timings, so that might be why you're having issues there


I've read this as well, but I've seen different. Not sure if such is set in stone.


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## Vya Domus (Sep 17, 2018)

1.125 for SoC

The thing is the Ryzen DRAM calculator seems awfully optimistic about timings, for example CL14 for 3000Mhz seems really unlikely to happen given my kit is meant to run at CL16 at that frequency.

Got a feeling this isn't really Micron B-die but something else.


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## Mussels (Sep 17, 2018)

find looser timing combos from your same RAM type, try lower voltages as well as higher
try different ram slots - on my board i have to use the pair that starts away from the CPU, not closest to it
If your board was the same as mine, it'd be the ones with the red lines here (if thats where yours are now, change and try the other pair)


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## Vya Domus (Sep 17, 2018)

Changed the slots and no difference. What's baffling is that 2866 is the only frequency under which I have been able to get past POST but not Windows. Anything between 2866 and 2400, nothing wont even POST.


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## GoldenX (Sep 17, 2018)

Damn, well, wait for a new BIOS?
If you happen to come to the Patagonia, bring the sticks and we'll try them on my motherboard.


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## robot zombie (Sep 17, 2018)

Mussels said:


> pretty sure i read that after a certain Mhz (3200?) ryzen only runs on even numbers for the timings, so that might be why you're having issues there


Oh I know. Im shooting for even timings. When I say CL17/3600 or CL15/3200 im referring to grades of b-die. Those are advertised timings.



lexluthermiester said:


> I've read this as well, but I've seen different. Not sure if such is set in stone.


I'm pretty sure it is. No real answers beyond "thats just how ryzens supposed to work" as far as Ive seen. For me it kinda sucks because b-die can usually run cas a point lower than the other primaries. Thats how my sticks are specced. Ill double check when i get home but Im pretty sure its still gonna round up.


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## Johan45 (Sep 17, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> Oh I know. Im shooting for even timings. When I say CL17/3600 or CL15/3200 im referring to grades of b-die. Those are advertised timings.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure it is. No real answers beyond "thats just how ryzens supposed to work" as far as Ive seen. For me it kinda sucks because b-die can usually run cas a point lower than the other primaries. Thats how my sticks are specced. Ill double check when i get home but Im pretty sure its still gonna round up.


Check for memory presets in the memory section, not sure the Strix has them but can't see why they wouldn't. The Stilts for "B" die work quite well. You're right in saying XMP(for Intel) and auto don't always work well with (Intel) sticks like you have but I have the same ram and they'll run 3200 Cl14 just fine. Just needs the proper timings. 
@Mussels 
You can set odd timings over 2933 that's what the gear down setting is for in memory timings. But AMD does "default" to an even CAS number


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## Apocalypsee (Sep 18, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> Changed the slots and no difference. What's baffling is that 2866 is the only frequency under which I have been able to get past POST but not Windows. Anything between 2866 and 2400, nothing wont even POST.


Odd, I have Micron H-die (Crucial value RAM) and it clocked all the way to 3200 with 16-17-16-16 timings. This is from a module that is rated for 2400 17-17-17-17. RAM voltage is 1.3V. My Gigabyte mobo overvolts SOC voltage a bit to around 1.187-1.2V. People have better success with higher SOC voltage and manual RAM timings instead of using XMP profiles.


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## YautjaLord (Sep 18, 2018)

After seeing all your SoC related comments, decided to check the safest SoC voltage, best i got was posted in KitGuru 1700X review - 1.25v? Whatdafuk?  

Lowered LLCs a tad, from Turbo to High, lower but stabler Cinebench R15 score. SoC is @ 1.0v.


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## robot zombie (Sep 19, 2018)

Alright, I give up. The limitations between the lesser b-die, dated BIOS, and possibly memory controller are unavoidable. This is the best I can do without hitting constant BSODs or just failing stability tests instantly. Like, starts tossing up errors the moment I start prime95. It's a shame. I really feel like I _should_ be able to get just a little more out of this hardware. Maybe if ASUS ever figures out their troubles with AGESA, I can.



I did try 3200/CL14, but the performance is marginally worse, it's a slower 3200/CL14, if that makes sense. Actually just scores worse across the board. Maybe later I'll run it to show. What I'm posting here is basically the timings for that scaled up to what would perform the same at 3400, with that 66mhz speed bump. So I wind up with similar latency, but a little faster speed.

Maybe there's a better sweet spot in there. I can't find it, though. There's shockingly little between this specific config and which combinations of faster speeds/looser timings or slower speeds/tighter timings will actually be stable. A little nudge either way and stability drops off of a cliff :/ And it's always like I'm one step away. But 10 steps later nothing has changed.

There's no way it should ever be that touchy. I'm not exactly pushing for extremes. I'm really thinking it's the mobo. Maybe I just don't know enough yet. But I feel like something has to be missing here. The wall I'm hitting is too brutal. It took me a week to get to this point. :/ I dunno, maybe I'm expecting too much. I know 3600/CL17 b-die isn't the best. Don't get me wrong, either, it still performs great - probably much better than what most people out there have. I'm still happy with it. Just feels like kind of a letdown to be held back by something I just can't pin down, knowing there should be a way to go another rung up. One can only bang his head against the wall so much. I feel like I've done my time reading, tinkering, clearing CMOS, restoring backups. 

Maybe one day I'll pick it up again. But right now I am soo over it 

EDIT: Just for posterity. 3200/CL14...



No matter what I may do, timings do not get sufficiently tighter. And speeds don't get sufficiently faster at similar timings. I gain nothing past that 3466/CL16 config. If I could do something like a loose 3200/CL12 or even CL13 I might be thinking differently. I also tried for 3400/CL14 and even 3400/CL15, but never managed to get it stable.

Power is another factor... ...this 3466/CL16 config runs at 1.41v and 1.1 SoC. Anything performing better requires significantly more to post, let alone begin to pass stress tests. I played around with termination, secondary voltages, powerdown/geardown, everything. I started with the lowest reasonable voltage for both DRAM and SoC, going up in minimal increments. And I'm telling you, minimum SoC is like 1.15 or even higher, while DRAM needs to be close to or at 1.5v. Even if I could tweak the timings to make those faster, high-power configs stable, it's not worth the extra 5-7C in CPU temps for what is maybe a 2-5% RAM performance boost.

Just goes to show, there's a lot more to it than just speed and CAS latency. Seems the way to get the most out is to pick the specific speed/CL that lands you the best subtimings, with a reasonable balance of all three. It doesn't always make sense to shoot for the fastest speed you can do with the lowest possible primary timings because of sacrifices made elsewhere. There's a sweet spot for every hardware combo. Shooting for the sweet spots other people hit may be a misdirection. 

Lesson here is to look at what YOU are seeing, not other people. If I did as people generally recommend and shot for those pretty low primary timings and slower speed, I'd be losing out in terms of overall speed:latency. And that's because the subtimings for my sticks to hit that are necessarily too loose. I can just as easily kick on geardown, up the primaries/speed, and hold tighter subtimings for better performance at absolutely no sacrifice to overall latency.

How this shakes down in specific applications is another question. And a much harder one to answer...

One thing I can say, and if anybody's curious I have my 3200/CL14 profile saved to run some more benchmarks, but CPU performance actually goes down measurably with that profile over my 3466/CL16 one.


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## YautjaLord (Sep 19, 2018)

Don't exactly remember if i put the pic of the beast in this thread before, so....:





EK-CryoFuel & 3+ litres of distilled water taken care of.  Don't mind the ASUS GTX 760 (dead unfortunately  ) & Samsung 850 Pro SSD on the right side of the pic.

P.S. Shot with Galaxy A6 cam, 16MP, 4:3, 4608x3456 res. Nice lil cam & phone, love it.


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## AlwaysHope (Sep 20, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> Alright, I give up. The limitations between the lesser b-die, dated BIOS, and possibly memory controller are unavoidable. This is the best I can do without hitting constant BSODs or just failing stability tests instantly. Like, starts tossing up errors the moment I start prime95. It's a shame. I really feel like I _should_ be able to get just a little more out of this hardware. Maybe if ASUS ever figures out their troubles with AGESA, I can.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Vdimm figures I see get bragged about on other OC forums with Ryzen 1 & 2 series are in vicinity of 1.41 - 1.50 to get near or on 3466 / CL14 etc...and they use single rank sticks.

What is not often seen or heard on these platforms is dual ranked sticks hitting 3200, 3466 or higher with tight timings. Not sure about rank format of your sticks though. 

I would not give up but if you get chance try it on X470 mobo. Buildzoid from YT suggested not doing more than 1.15 SoC when he was reviewing MSI's X470 version of the Gaming Pro Carbon AC series. I tend to think he knows what he is talking about compared to some of them on there. Just my opinion though...

I take it you've tried Ryzen DRAM Calculator? the dude that authors that, has had several updates since launch, so it's not an abandoned project.


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## SIGSEGV (Sep 20, 2018)

can i join to this club?


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## robot zombie (Sep 20, 2018)

AlwaysHope said:


> The Vdimm figures I see get bragged about on other OC forums with Ryzen 1 & 2 series are in vicinity of 1.41 - 1.50 to get near or on 3466 / CL14 etc...and they use single rank sticks.


I've noticed they are very power sensitive. Sometimes more power actually makes things worse. I was methodical with each trial, starting with the lowest recommended by the calc and working my way up. LLC settings were crucial too. Though many times after failing that I'd say fuck it and crank it and it'd finally boot. Little bit of both, there. Some work better on the low end of the recommended range. Some have to go well above or not at all.

I also tried everything else on the flow chart. No luck at all. Messing with termination at all means it wont post. No matter what. That makes me question this board a lot. I think its the BIOS. Its wayy behind on AGESA updates...

I messed with powerdown, geardown, even tried disabling both and running 2T command rate. Between all of this, I'm systematically running through standard timings adjustments. I would change one factor, run through all of the acceptable timings, change it back and change the next and repeat. Then comes combos. Even what should be trivial timings are giving me problems at any power level or combinations of settings.

When conventional wisdom failed, I basically went brute force. Continuing at this point is like falling in love with the wrong woman over and over again.



> What is not often seen or heard on these platforms is dual ranked sticks hitting 3200, 3466 or higher with tight timings. Not sure about rank format of your sticks though.


They're regular ole single-rank b-die. But the latency is designated higher. They're specced as 3600/CL17. Its a thing. From what ive read they should do all but the most extreme. 3400/14 should be doable. Its not :/ honestly I'd even take CL15. It's just a little lower binned than the 3200/CL14 and 3600/CL16 sticks you see the most of. So it'll never do the super high 3800+ speeds, but it should still at least overclock to the level of the modules binned just above it... you'd think. I dunno maybe I lost the silicon lottery. Maybe that's my tradeoff for getting a 2600 that'll do 4.2ghz at 1.3v 

That's something I need to consider, too... ...perhaps trying to take the RAM up is leaving the CPU a little starved. Actually with my old ram it was happy with 1.29v. I upped it for stability. I might try going higher. Temperatures start to go up though, just from the RAM itself being under higher voltages, so I don't want to add too much to it. Maybe if I clock down to 4.15 or 4.1. But it's like, at that point is it even worth it? Hmmm...



> I would not give up but if you get chance try it on X470 mobo. Buildzoid from YT suggested not doing more than 1.15 SoC when he was reviewing MSI's X470 version of the Gaming Pro Carbon AC series. I tend to think he knows what he is talking about compared to some of them on there. Just my opinion though...


I really like his content. Ive seen all of his videos on memory and stuff. Taught me alot. Guy knows his stuff.

But yeah... there is nothing left to do but give up otherwise. I have tried everything 3 times over now. Trust me I am very thorough. So many long hours of being almost there...

This ram on this board at the most will do CL14 at 3200. Past that its a minimum of 16. No in between. Short of a new board its not happening. For now im holding out for a BIOS update. I see myself going to 7nm when they come out so I don't want to buy another new board just to be a board behind again later. Im planning a build for a friend. Depending on what he wants to pay me I may toss in this X370 and put the money in a good X470. Well see.



> I take it you've tried Ryzen DRAM Calculator? the dude that authors that, has had several updates since launch, so it's not an abandoned project.


Ive been the one pushing it these past couple of pages  Unfortunately for me very few of them work, or even have the potential to work for me. Even many of the more conservative options never stood a chance. Ive got stacks of booklets made from printouts of every possible config to shoot for. All marked to hell. 30+ pages of configs from it, all tested and tweaked as much as possible.

Its just... what works is so far off from what it prescribes that if it isnt the calc its hardware or firmware. Probably both of the latter in my case.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 21, 2018)

SIGSEGV said:


> can i join to this club?


Welcome!


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## YautjaLord (Sep 21, 2018)

Video coming soon.  Will test with Prime95 Small FFTs torture test (2 hours) & CPU-Z bench. Games & synthetic benchmarks (3DMark Time Spy, Unigine Superposition, etc...) will come in next video.


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## GoldenX (Sep 22, 2018)

SIGSEGV said:


> can i join to this club?


Welcome, try not to bump with the FX pile at the door.


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## Liquid Cool (Sep 22, 2018)

I'd like to join as well....

I put together a Ryzen 3 2200G mini itx setup for a family member about 2 months back and used a Gigabyte board with DDR4 3000 memory.  I played with that system for quite a few days...had fun overclocking the cpu and gpu but there didn't seem to be as many FPS gain in games as there was when I ramped up the memory from 2133 to 3000 using the XMP profile.  Those gains...we're rather substantial.

I also noticed...the majority of the gains were had from 2133 to 2666, then dropped off in percentages the higher I went from there.  So, when I purchased the setup in my "system specs"  I didn't hesitate to grab a DDR4 2666 kit when I saw it on a good sale. 

Although...here is where the trouble starts...I can't get these sticks to run at the advertised speed.  I can manually set them at 2400(stock 1.2v) and the system boots up and runs fine(actually great), but when I use the XMP profile and it sets them to 2666...the system won't even boot.  I'm not too familiar with newer systems and haven't owned an AMD computer since 2005, not too mention...I've never owned DDR4 before.  So, I didn't want to start pumping voltage past their rated 1.2v until I know what I'm doing.

Frankly, I can't tell if the motherboard is at fault, or if the memory just won't run at the rated speed.  I'll return/exchange something if I need to....but I like my set up the way it is....

I'd be appreciative if someone could enlighten me as to what to do here...

Best Regards,

Liquid Cool


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## robot zombie (Sep 22, 2018)

Liquid Cool said:


> I'd like to join as well....
> 
> I put together a Ryzen 3 2200G mini itx setup for a family member about 2 months back and used a Gigabyte board with DDR4 3000 memory.  I played with that system for quite a few days...had fun overclocking the cpu and gpu but there didn't seem to be as many FPS gain in games as there was when I ramped up the memory from 2133 to 3000 using the XMP profile.  Those gains...we're rather substantial.
> 
> I also noticed...the majority of the gains were had from 2133 to 2666, then dropped off in percentages the higher I went from there.  So, when I purchased the setup in my "system specs"  I didn't hesitate to grab a DDR4 2666 kit when I saw it on a good sale.


Ahh, with the APU's RAM speed matters a lot more, not only because the CPU's infinity fabric's latency/bandwith is tied to it, but because the integrated GPU is allocating ram for VRAM. In order for it to function effectively as VRAM it needs to be pretty fast. Additionally, having a decent chunk of RAM helps too. Say you allocate 4GB to VRAM in the BIOS, you will want to have yet another 4GB free for the allocated space to work with. Same as how with a dedicated GPU, performance can suffer a lot from not having at least as much RAM free as the GPU has VRAM of its own.

One thing worth mentioning when shopping for RAM, in general, but especially with Ryzen. Rated speeds aren't as important as the speed/CAS latency ratio. Different vendors indicate different bin levels differently. Take GSKILL for example. They have multiple designations for the exact same DIMMs. 3200/CL14 and 3600/CL16 will both do either of those settings and perform more or less the same. Make sense? For these RAM vendors it seems to come down to however they decided to test it that day 

Basically what I'm saying is tightest possible timings for whatever speed are what you want. If your ram is 2666 with decent timings it can easily do more, or less with even tighter timings. It's not a rigid designation.



> Although...here is where the trouble starts...I can't get these sticks to run at the advertised speed.  I can manually set them at 2400(stock 1.2v) and the system boots up and runs fine(actually great), but when I use the XMP profile and it sets them to 2666...the system won't even boot.  I'm not too familiar with newer systems and haven't owned an AMD computer since 2005, not too mention...I've never owned DDR4 before.  So, I didn't want to start pumping voltage past their rated 1.2v until I know what I'm doing.
> 
> Frankly, I can't tell if the motherboard is at fault, or if the memory just won't run at the rated speed.  I'll return/exchange something if I need to....but I like my set up the way it is....


XMP/DOCP profiles with Ryzen can be a bit iffy. As far as voltage goes, don't worry too much. SoC is good to 1.2v and actually that's meant to be kind of a safe limit, factoring in the fact that some boards overvolt SoC significantly. The latest DDR4 can safely be run as high as 1.5v with adequate cooling, though realistically 1.35 is more common for higher speeds. 1.5 is really getting into crazy overclocking/showing-off/benching territory.

But really, you will need more voltage. I'd probably start with 1v SoC (the max most need is 1.1-1.125) and 1.35v for your RAM. Even 1.4v isn't gonna be an issue. I think the easiest way to get it going is to use the Ryzen DRAM Calculator. You'll have to figure out your DRAM manufacturer/bin - follow the instructions given on the page. You probably won't have to get fancy and manually enter the ns latencies. If you wind up with something common, all you have to do is select the manufacturer/bin and hit the purple "XMP" button and it will plug-in the standard latencies for you.

Once you have the info plugged into the calc, chose profile "v1" and hit "fast" or "safe." Start with fast. it will spit out timings and power ranges that should work for the speed you set. It gives you everything. Adhere to what it provides to a T and you should have no troubles, assuming your RAM/mobo is up for it. The calc also has a section for suggested LLC settings. Highly recommend trying them, too.

Also included with the download is a handy flowchart for troubleshooting issues with bad configs. Will help you through every step from posting to running stable. I also posted it in this thread a page back. Can't miss it.

Worth mentioning... ...messing with RAM on Ryzen can get complicated, but it doesn't have to be. Barring bad luck like I've been having, the calculator should get you there. And if it's not quite there, you can always loosen the timings a hair and call it a day  The "safe" timings are generally guaranteed. Most will do "fast" just fine and it is still safe, but stability isn't a given on all hardware.

Almost forgot, do make sure your BIOS is up to date. I can tell you first hand that earlier BIOSes on most boards had trouble with RAM compatibility, especially with regards to running rated speeds.

Have fun! Welcome to The Circle.


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## biffzinker (Sep 22, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> One thing worth mentioning when shopping for RAM, in general, but especially with Ryzen. Rated speeds aren't as important as the speed/CAS latency ratio.


I've found out that it's worth running at a slower MHz for DDR4 with tighten timings vers loosen timings higher MHz for my 2600X. I'm getting better benchmark scores at 3200 MHz with 15-17-17-17-35 and secondary timings for refresh of 63/416. I tried running at 3400 MHz with timings at default but I lose bandwidth I get back at 3200 MHz with tightened timings.


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## robot zombie (Sep 22, 2018)

biffzinker said:


> I've found out that it's worth running at a slower MHz for DDR4 with tighten timings vers loosen timings higher MHz for my 2600X. I'm getting better benchmark scores at 3200 MHz with 15-17-17-17-35 and secondary timings for refresh of 63/416. I tried running at 3400 MHz with timings at default but I lose bandwidth I get back at 3200 MHz with tightened timings.


It's a tricky balance. For me, I get worse performance at 3200mhz 14-14-14-14-28 than I do at 3466mhz 16-16-16-16-32. With the latter, bandwidth goes up significantly and latency is the same as the former. Secondary timings are a big factor. I manage all-around better relative secondary timings for the latter, so the higher-speed config is nothing but a benefit to both latency and bandwidth. No matter what I do, I cannot get a tighter balance at CL14. Go figure. I've actually got the AIDA benchmarks posted on this page to show it.

So I guess it's best to say it's a little bit of everything. Just because somebody else has a certain sweet spot doesn't mean that's your ideal. Depends on where your hardware limitations are.

I do agree, best rule of thumb is to shoot for the lowest speed that Infinity Fabric actually needs and tighten timings as much as possible from there. But I still think it's worth mentioning that primary timings are only part of the picture. Once you hit 2800-3200 it becomes a balancing game between speed, primaries, secondaries, and power delivery. Of course that all is a given but one can't overstate the equal significance of each of those factors.

I wonder how it shakes down BELOW what infinity fabric likes. Do you take the hit in IF latency/throughput to get tighter RAM timings? Or do the looser RAM timing affect things less than worse IF performance?


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## AlwaysHope (Sep 22, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> I've noticed they are very power sensitive. Sometimes more power actually makes things worse. I was methodical with each trial, starting with the lowest recommended by the calc and working my way up. LLC settings were crucial too. Though many times after failing that I'd say fuck it and crank it and it'd finally boot. Little bit of both, there. Some work better on the low end of the recommended range. Some have to go well above or not at all.
> 
> I also tried everything else on the flow chart. No luck at all. Messing with termination at all means it wont post. No matter what. That makes me think at this point & in light of that glad I went with MSI on my current gaming rig.



Yeah, sometimes too much voltage can have counterproductive benefits with OC on any component. Have heard b4 about Asus being slack  with AGESA updates that makes me think this time around instead of going with them, I'll give MSI a go with my current gaming rig. Another thing to consider is empty DIMM slots, apparently it's been found they can cause an antenna effect & exaggerate EM interference. Kinda makes sense when I think about it.




robot zombie said:


> I messed with powerdown, geardown, even tried disabling both and running 2T command rate. Between all of this, I'm systematically running through standard timings adjustments. I would change one factor, run through all of the acceptable timings, change it back and change the next and repeat. Then comes combos. Even what should be trivial timings are giving me problems at any power level or combinations of settings.
> 
> When conventional wisdom failed, I basically went brute force. Continuing at this point is like falling in love with the wrong woman over and over again.



Yeah, been there, done that but not so much on Ryzen systems yet, & I ain't going down that road either. Better things to do with my time on the rig like actually gaming on it....lol... even if cutting back the OC a bit. Stability is heaven on earth in computer world imo.



robot zombie said:


> They're regular ole single-rank b-die. But the latency is designated higher. They're specced as 3600/CL17. Its a thing. From what ive read they should do all but the most extreme. 3400/14 should be doable. Its not :/ honestly I'd even take CL15. It's just a little lower binned than the 3200/CL14 and 3600/CL16 sticks you see the most of. So it'll never do the super high 3800+ speeds, but it should still at least overclock to the level of the modules binned just above it... you'd think. I dunno maybe I lost the silicon lottery. Maybe that's my tradeoff for getting a 2600 that'll do 4.2ghz at 1.3v



Haven't researched those sticks but is that specced for Intel platforms?  if it is, herein lies part of the problem imo. Unless you spend countless hours testing every little minor timing on them, one can't be 100% certain. Apart from that, perhaps it is bad luck in the silicon lottery after all?



robot zombie said:


> That's something I need to consider, too... ...perhaps trying to take the RAM up is leaving the CPU a little starved. Actually with my old ram it was happy with 1.29v. I upped it for stability. I might try going higher. Temperatures start to go up though, just from the RAM itself being under higher voltages, so I don't want to add too much to it. Maybe if I clock down to 4.15 or 4.1. But it's like, at that point is it even worth it? Hmmm...



That's a consideration only you can answer at this point. If 100 or 50MHz of CPU speed is warranted or not.



robot zombie said:


> I really like his content. Ive seen all of his videos on memory and stuff. Taught me alot. Guy knows his stuff.
> 
> But yeah... there is nothing left to do but give up otherwise. I have tried everything 3 times over now. Trust me I am very thorough. So many long hours of being almost there...
> 
> This ram on this board at the most will do CL14 at 3200. Past that its a minimum of 16. No in between. Short of a new board its not happening. For now im holding out for a BIOS update. I see myself going to 7nm when they come out so I don't want to buy another new board just to be a board behind again later. Im planning a build for a friend. Depending on what he wants to pay me I may toss in this X370 and put the money in a good X470. Well see.



B450 & X470 designed for 2933MHz out of the box. Not that the IMC is on the chipset of course but the overall design of the boards accomodates that official AMD ram speed.  I still think if you tried it on decent X470 board, you could be surprised. B450 is still very young & bioses haven't matured as much. 



robot zombie said:


> I
> Ive been the one pushing it these past couple of pages  Unfortunately for me very few of them work, or even have the potential to work for me. Even many of the more conservative options never stood a chance. Ive got stacks of booklets made from printouts of every possible config to shoot for. All marked to hell. 30+ pages of configs from it, all tested and tweaked as much as possible.
> 
> Its just... what works is so far off from what it prescribes that if it isnt the calc its hardware or firmware. Probably both of the latter in my case.


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## robot zombie (Sep 22, 2018)

AlwaysHope said:


> Yeah, sometimes too much voltage can have counterproductive benefits with OC on any component. Have heard b4 about Asus being slack  with AGESA updates that makes me think this time around instead of going with them, I'll give MSI a go with my current gaming rig. Another thing to consider is empty DIMM slots, apparently it's been found they can cause an antenna effect & exaggerate EM interference. Kinda makes sense when I think about it.


I don't think all Asus boards have that problem. Seems to be more with the older and/or lower-end ones specifically. I doubt it's an issue with the Crosshair or anything. Asus... ...man back in the day I loved Asus boards. These days they seem to be slacking. I actually really like the X370-F. Very high-quality VRM, nice feature set, great audio, and the actual BIOS layout/features are pretty much anything I could want, but the fact that it's so behind would've been a dealbreaker had I known when I bought it. That's the thing about motherboards. Doesn't matter if the VRM is amazing and it has all of the features you want if the BIOS has problems. And often you just can't know beforehand. :/ It's a shame. It really is a perfectly fine board otherwise. It would be one of the better X370's out there if not for crap like this. I'm stuck on AGESA 1.0.0.2!



> Yeah, been there, done that but not so much on Ryzen systems yet, & I ain't going down that road either. Better things to do with my time on the rig like actually gaming on it....lol... even if cutting back the OC a bit. Stability is heaven on earth in computer world imo.


Agreed. Instability ruins my zen (lol) completely. It just feels wrong. If something messes up, I have to fix it. I'd rather just know it's always gonna work than have it work a little, unnoticeable bit better *most* of the time. With RAM in particular it can just be so sketchy, just corrupting data without you realizing until that day when something bad and irreversible happens to your system. When I was testing different configurations, I actually held a backup that I made made right before I started and that's the one I restored when I stopped testing unstable RAM configs. That kind of instability sketches me out bad. I'm always afraid something got corrupted and carried over into my backups. They only go back so far, you know?



> Haven't researched those sticks but is that specced for Intel platforms?  if it is, herein lies part of the problem imo. Unless you spend countless hours testing every little minor timing on them, one can't be 100% certain. Apart from that, perhaps it is bad luck in the silicon lottery after all?


Yeap, they are. Most of the gskill ones are. But looking into it, these are supposed to be nothing more than middle-bin b-die, so it shouldn't matter all that much. I know that Intel and AMD carry different profiles/ratings/so-on but I'm purely comparing apples to apples. And doing that, these are in the middle, ratings-wise.

I nabbed them because the price was right at the time and I knew for a fact they were b-die. Honestly, I feel like they're not performing badly at all, like compared to any other RAM available. I was just hoping for a little more than I managed. I don't know what it is but something's telling me they have more to them than what I'm getting. Maybe silicon lottery, but I really suspect motherboard, given how people always say that they get better RAM overclocks with the newer BIOS updates.

If not, it's like I said, this is the price I pay for lucking out on a vanilla 2600 that hits 4.2ghz completely stable at an almost unheard of, low n' cool 1.29v. Can't have ideal everything for every part in a build. 



> That's a consideration only you can answer at this point. If 100 or 50MHz of CPU speed is warranted or not.


Yeah, I'll mess with it when I get the itch. I'm betting it won't make much of a difference, but I had some nice scoring 3533 and 3600 configs that just weren't quite stable. If a few little things here and there can get me there it might be worth it. Voltage climbs a lot between 4.1 and 4.2... I think I was at 1.25ish to run 4.1 stable. Dunno, man. Eventually I'll get around to messing with them more.



> B450 & X470 designed for 2933MHz out of the box. Not that the IMC is on the chipset of course but the overall design of the boards accomodates that official AMD ram speed.  I still think if you tried it on decent X470 board, you could be surprised. B450 is still very young & bioses haven't matured as much.


B450 isn't even a consideration for me. Not into their power sections or overall feature sets. But yes, I assume the X470's do much better. I just can't justify it for one bad thing. The board is great save for this minor issue. If my buddy wants to put up a good chunk of what a top-end X470 costs for me to go all-in on this build for him, which with the time I'm going to put in he seems to be content to, then maybe I'll nab one. Less guilt when somebody else is funding your upgrade


----------



## YautjaLord (Sep 22, 2018)

Done. How do i upload a video here beside typing in URL? It's offline file off of my Galaxy A6, haven't uploaded it yet to YT.

P.S. It stopped been bubble-y, all installed, will run it for few more hours tomorrow to get rid off of all the air bubbles left & then Prime95 & rest of the tests.


----------



## GoldenX (Sep 22, 2018)

Mmm, tomato sauce. Joking aside, that looks cool AF.
Noob question, you can get any water colour, right?


----------



## YautjaLord (Sep 22, 2018)

@GoldenX:
More like blood red, but the cam (A6, 16MP, 4:3, 4608x3456) made it look like tomato sauce yeah, also there was extra light from bathroom bulb. 
Distilled water, coolant is CryoFuel from EKWB, concentrate, comes in all color variants, i.e. - red, blue, green, etc...., as long as you have money cash for either of this, yeah, you can get it in any color you desire. 

P.S. Tomato sauce cause it was all bubble-y & stuff, it was still in process of getting rid off of air bubbles when i took that shot.


----------



## SIGSEGV (Sep 22, 2018)

using XMP setting, is it normal 2700X has vcore around 1.4 - 1.48?


----------



## robot zombie (Sep 22, 2018)

SIGSEGV said:


> using XMP setting, is it normal 2700X has vcore around 1.4 - 1.48?


Yeah, it'll do that at the top end of its boost. Usually only on a core or two at a time, and briefly. Put it under load and watch individual core voltages and speeds.


----------



## SIGSEGV (Sep 22, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> Yeah, it'll do that at the top end of its boost. Usually only on a core or two at a time, and briefly. Put it under load and watch individual core voltages and speeds.



thanks,
I think it'd be better to use offset -0.15v of vcore to compensate the XFR boost


----------



## robot zombie (Sep 22, 2018)

SIGSEGV said:


> thanks,
> I think it'd be better to use offset -0.15v of vcore to compensate the XFR boost


Absolutely. A lot of people do just that and it seems to work well for them.


----------



## AlwaysHope (Sep 23, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> Absolutely. A lot of people do just that and it seems to work well for them.



Except those on MSI platforms. But even without offset, no problems here on my system.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 23, 2018)

so annoyed by the lack of offset on my MSI board -.- everything else about it works great, but its static voltages and no clock/volt down at idle


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 23, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> Ahh, with the APU's RAM speed matters a lot more, not only because the CPU's infinity fabric's latency/bandwidth is tied to it, but because the integrated GPU is allocating ram for VRAM. In order for it to function effectively as VRAM it needs to be pretty fast.


You are very correct on this point. The faster the RAM the better!


robot zombie said:


> Say you allocate 4GB to VRAM in the BIOS


With an APU, 4GB is overkill. 2GB is all you need because an APU GPU isn't going to push anything that will need 4GB or more.


----------



## GoldenX (Sep 23, 2018)

And the bios is still limited to 2GB anyway.


----------



## robot zombie (Sep 23, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> With an APU, 4GB is overkill. 2GB is all you need because an APU GPU isn't going to push anything that will need 4GB or more.


Haha you'd be right there. I just threw a number out. I probably said 4GB just because that's what my GPU has


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 23, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> Haha you'd be right there. I just threw a number out. I probably said 4GB just because that's what my GPU has


Fair enough. Realistically, setting up an APU based system with 8GB of fast ram and allocating 1.5GB to 2GB is going to run very well for any user who can't afford a proper GPU.


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## GoldenX (Sep 23, 2018)

The Zen APUs are both the best option for something lower than a 1050 (a 1030 costs almost as much as the whole 2200g, with the same performance), and the best option for something new with VGA (D-Sub) support, not even the 550 has analog support any more.


----------



## SIGSEGV (Sep 23, 2018)

AlwaysHope said:


> Except those on MSI platforms. But even without offset, no problems here on my system.



I built another ryzen system rig for my friend last night using 2600X and MSI B450 pro board. It seems strange that the idle cpu temp only 36-37*C at 3.6Ghz despite having a high number of vcore (1.42v).


----------



## YautjaLord (Sep 23, 2018)

Prime95 Small FFTs test (1h out of 2h run):






Well basically ~1h (53 min) but yeah, you get the picture.  Right now in Blender's Video Editor, you won't believe it - learning how to merge sequences into one video clip. There's first time for everything in life, yeah i admit i'm a complete newb in this & i think i proved it.  jk
So far stable, VCore & SoC voltages are @ 1.375v & 0.984v respectively. Stay tuned. 

P.S. Jumped by the end of 2+ hours run (& stayed there like a champion) to 72 degrees C (CPU (tdie)). It still confuses me, what is the real (if you can call it that) temp, tdie or tctl? Tdie is actual/real temp throughout the test & Tctl is Ryzen X models offset?


----------



## robot zombie (Sep 23, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> Fair enough. Realistically, setting up an APU based system with 8GB of fast ram and allocating 1.5GB to 2GB is going to run very well for any user who can't afford a proper GPU.





GoldenX said:


> The Zen APUs are both the best option for something lower than a 1050 (a 1030 costs almost as much as the whole 2200g, with the same performance), and the best option for something new with VGA (D-Sub) support, not even the 550 has analog support any more.


Im sure its a great 720p option. Those APUs have pretty respectable graphical performance for being packed into a CPU package. I was tempted back when they came out.


SIGSEGV said:


> I built another ryzen system rig for my friend last night using 2600X and MSI B450 pro board. It seems strange that the idle cpu temp only 36-37*C at 3.6Ghz despite having a high number of vcore (1.42v).


Idle is idle. Its current that causes heat. And a CPU only draws appreciable current while under load. Voltage is only part of the equation. It doesnt increase heat as much as current does. You can idle at a high voltage all day and power consumption will only go up a little. Think of it like a wattage multiplier. The base current has to shoot up significantly for that voltage to seriously add to the power output. And then its gonna droop, which will offset it a little bit. This is why upping the voltage may only increase temps by a few degrees while upping core clocks can stack double-digit increases onto temperature. 

Additionally I doubt all cores are idling that high simultaneously. Typically itll jump across cores, with the rest showing lower numbers. Who knows. XMP is funky like that. I wouldnt think too much of it. Fairly normal for them to act like that. As long as temps are good under load then all is well.



YautjaLord said:


> Prime95 Small FFTs test (1h out of 2h run):
> 
> View attachment 107406
> 
> ...


Hey! Pretty sweet man! Though what Im most jealous of is that memory OC 

And yeah... tdie is supposed to be core temp. I dont know why they had to make it so confusing. Different Ryzens show it differently. For my 2600, CPU is actually socket temp and tctl/tdie are combined to reflect actual core temp 


You know, this talk of temperature and voltage got me thinking... I wonder how much of that general 4.2-4.3ghz limit (for Ryzen 5 and down of course) actually has to do with temperature/current limitations, as opposed to the architecture's stability limitations, like it more often is. I look at my 2600 doing 4.2 easily at 1.29v. And then I observe how much more current is drawn to try and run 4.3ghz. Its so much more power and heat that I dont think liquid cooling could make it viable. Certainly the voltage headroom is there though. Ultimately its not an issue of not enough power to not wobble. Its the massive temperature increase that makes it unstable. Or so it seems. I did some stress testing at 4.3ghz and after a couple of runs you can pretty much time when its going to crash down to the second by watching temperature...

I dunno... could it be that efficiency is to blame for the clock speed bottleneck? I keep going back to Infinity Fabric, and the charts Ive seen showing how as speed/utilization go up, IF current/wattage rises until its literally half of the whole package load. Seems like it hits a critical mass at a specific clock speed. And that hard line is eerily consistent, no matter which chip youre looking at. Theyll all do the same number...

If theres anything to this, then it may be that all AMD needs to do in order to increase clock speeds is increase efficiency, for both cores and thier propietary magic ccx space glue *sparkles* and we may yet see a 4.5ghz Ryzen. Ill be curious to see what 7nm brings in that department for sure. A guy can hope, right?


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## YautjaLord (Sep 23, 2018)

@robot zombie:

Memory is not even manually OC'd to tell you the fact, it's actually XMP 2.0 profile that was set in my mobo's BIOS, basically automatic OC if you will. 

As for temps, thermal limits & such - when my 1700X was sitting @ 3.9GHz/1.4v+ (under yet to be replaced Supremacy EVO waterblock if i'm correct) i got to 70+ degrees C at times when testing with Prime95 Blend test & it crash not even half an hour when i ran Small FFTs test on same frequency, chips are binned (if that's the correct word) differently, it's a lottery that's what i'm saying.  Few YT big guns/tech gurus if you will (JayzTwoCents, etc...), ran into same issues, albeit in case of JayzTwoCents he tried 4.4GHz on 2700X, but i digress.

I'm more into finding out what each options in new "AMD CBS" thingy does to stabilize my OC, than touching RAM frequency, only thing i set manually was RAM voltage, was 1.2v, now 1.35v (kits standard/XMP 2.0 voltage). Works just fine. Also, Flare X 3200MHz/CL14 is the best kit for all Ryzen series, 1000s & 2000s. And yeah, i wanna test Zen 2 as well once it announced & hits PC stores shelves.  Cheers.


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## AlwaysHope (Sep 24, 2018)

SIGSEGV said:


> I built another ryzen system rig for my friend last night using 2600X and MSI B450 pro board. It seems strange that the idle cpu temp only 36-37*C at 3.6Ghz despite having a high number of vcore (1.42v).



Have to see specs & / or screenshots with monitoring utilities in real time and clearly shown to make further comment.



Mussels said:


> so annoyed by the lack of offset on my MSI board -.- everything else about it works great, but its static voltages and no clock/volt down at idle



Huh? Cool n' Quiet tech not taking care of things?


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## robot zombie (Sep 24, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> As for temps, thermal limits & such - when my 1700X was sitting @ 3.9GHz/1.4v+ (under yet to be replaced Supremacy EVO waterblock if i'm correct) i got to 70+ degrees C at times when testing with Prime95 Blend test & it crash not even half an hour when i ran Small FFTs test on same frequency, chips are binned (if that's the correct word) differently, it's a lottery that's what i'm saying.  Few YT big guns/tech gurus if you will (JayzTwoCents, etc...), ran into same issues, albeit in case of JayzTwoCents he tried 4.4GHz on 2700X, but i digress.


Ahh, see I was thinking maybe there was something to the fact that most people tend to hit a temperature ceiling at the same time as a frequency ceiling. I kind of wonder if core clock limitations have to do with power... ...how rather drastic increases in current draw may affect temperature coefficient, among other things, which in turn affects stability. Most people overclocking these on air find that there is a specific temperature range that will reliably make any Ryzen wobble. It seems to be around 75-80C. Whatever your chip does south of that temperature range is all it will do. And it seems that increasing the cooling to take that same unstable overclock below that temperature range can sometimes make it stable. I'm not talking huge gains, here... ...maybe 50-100mhz. Still, it makes me think that Ryzen is more temperature-sensitive than we may realize, and that what we think is just silicon lottery and hard architectural walls may actually be a little more than that.

I'll put it this way. If I were to induce a modest overclock to run in that temperature window, it would still crash, even though the chip can technically do it. This is different from how overclocking as I've known it usually works. Temperature ceilings are a thing, but typically people will hit a clock speed wall first and temperature ceilings only come into play with inferior cooling. Not saying it can't happen. But I agree, it's only half of the problem. I can kinda see how having a really good cooling system might not be enough to prevent a crash, even at lower temps.

It's kind of a double whammy, you know? As it gets hotter, it becomes less efficient. Same effect as going further under load in itself. IF on its own soaks up current like crazy at higher clocks. What I'm suggesting is that if we had a similar core architecture with an interconnect architecture that doesn't comprise up to half of the whole current load at peak operation, that chip might actually be able clock higher without major changes to the rest of the architecture, simply because the whole package is easier to power (meaning better stability) and thus generates less heat (also better stability.)

But that is to say... clearly it's not just about heat. Perhaps it's equally the current generating that heat. Perhaps this split current load between cores and IF asks too much of conventional VRM's. It's no secret that Zen and Zen+ have significant droop. As you go further and further up, current demand for IF increases exponentially, eventually surpassing the rate at which the cores themselves ask for more current, in theory. When you get to full utilization of heavily overclocked cores linked via IF, it may simply not be possible to deliver power to everything properly. So even if you can keep the temperature under control, you still have to contend with that.

Makes me wonder what would happen if Infinity Fabric had its own dedicated power section, much like SoC does. Might help curtail problems with balancing voltage to current when the IF floodgates open and load ramps up. I sometimes wonder if that ramp up isn't a bigger part of what's throwing a wrench in the thing - both asking for a lot of power at different rates simultaneously. Don't know enough to know how possible that actually is to try and deal with, but I think it would be interesting to see a few things change regarding how power is handled later on. You could see attempts to boost individual cores intelligently as a "soft" way to get around this and push performance up without hitting the temperature or power draw walls.

Don't mind my nonsense. I have no clue what I'm talking about. Just kinda interesting to muse over from my uninformed point of view... while I wait for 7nm. 



> I'm more into finding out what each options in new "AMD CBS" thingy does to stabilize my OC, than touching RAM frequency, only thing i set manually was RAM voltage, was 1.2v, now 1.35v (kits standard/XMP 2.0 voltage). Works just fine. Also, Flare X 3200MHz/CL14 is the best kit for all Ryzen series, 1000s & 2000s. And yeah, i wanna test Zen 2 as well once it announced & hits PC stores shelves.  Cheers.


Overclocking these things is definitely getting interesting. Little by little they are taking systems that have always been automatic and allowing us to tweak more and more aspects of them. Lots of new ways to balance power/stability in the future. It's like a whole new world is opening up and everything that used to make sense... doesn't XD Options like that kinda tie into what I was getting at though. I think in the future we will be looking more at tweaking power delivery more in order to increase stability at higher clocks, rather than the old ways of just throwing more volts at it  It's going to take more nuance and finesse. Maybe in leiu of the gains we used to see going forward in the traditional way, we may still find a few more tricks lurking beneath the power side of things.

And yeah, generally 3200/14 b-die is among the best there is. G.Skill has the good stuff. I would've like to nab some, but I know now it wouldn't have made a difference, heh. This mobo won't even do XMP for these 3600/17 sticks at rated speed, so I don't feel so bad about having middle-road b-die. 

All I really know is it is a good time to buy AMD - super glad I got back into this stuff when I did. It's like the universe knew I wanted cool new AMD stuff, so it lead me back to PC building, just in time for me to see AMD make a comeback with really compelling APU's, a whole new architecture with great value and potential, and the first 7nm consumer CPU's enroute. They've come up with some interesting stuff this time around. Even if Intel made more sense for me and my needs right now, I'd still want to have a Ryzen machine just to mess around with. Here's hoping we get more to explore soon!


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## YautjaLord (Sep 24, 2018)

A teaser, a shape of things to come if you will  :










Better mute for now if you don't want to hear movie dubbed in Russian in a background. 

P.S. Recorded with Galaxy A6 yet again.


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## SIGSEGV (Sep 25, 2018)

i was curious why ryzen 2700X always clocked at very high speed (reported +- 4 Ghz while in idle state via hardware monitor), it turns out that ryzen balance power setting at windows setting - power plan was configured at 90% while in idle state. I still don't get any idea about this

-- edit --
ah it's about core parking problem in windows


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## Mussels (Sep 25, 2018)

Sister in law is buying my ryzen 1700, so i can upgrade to a 2700x today

help me pick out a mobo... will be buying one in about 4 hours from this post


Edit: damn the store has fuck all options available, if i dont get the MSI x470 (My current MSI is missing P-state OC and voltage offset) theres only one affordable option, the 
ASUS Prime X470-Pro - thoughts on that board vs the MSI?


----------



## SIGSEGV (Sep 26, 2018)

Mussels said:


> Sister in law is buying my ryzen 1700, so i can upgrade to a 2700x today
> 
> help me pick out a mobo... will be buying one in about 4 hours from this post
> 
> ...



personally i would pick ASUS Prime X470 Pro over MSI. Dunno why, i've felt that MSI has messed up with VRM thingy from the begining.. (AM3+ gate)


----------



## Mussels (Sep 26, 2018)

ASUS ROG Strix X370-F is an option as well with a BIOS update - seems to have a good reputation, its in stock and cheaper than x470

edit: Ugh theres so few actual choices. I might stick with the asus for the better settings and x470 chipset

If i blow my budget theres the asus croshair hero VII... (nevermind, thats a preorder)


----------



## HTC (Sep 26, 2018)

No TaiChi available? Or is it outside your price range?

I mean the Asrock Taichi X370.


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## Mussels (Sep 26, 2018)

not available at that store (the only one in town), i'd have to wait a week or so without a system for delivery


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## robot zombie (Sep 26, 2018)

Mussels said:


> ASUS ROG Strix X370-F is an option as well with a BIOS update - seems to have a good reputation, its in stock and cheaper than x470


I can actually vouch for it. 6-phase vcore, all quality IR components, decent feature set, looks fairly nice, good all-rounder. Lacks a few of the newest overclocking features, but handles manual overclocks very well - I was able to take my 2600 to 4.2 at 1.29v and it doesn't even struggle to get it to that 150w under max load. You can get the voltage reasonably flat.

Just bear in mind, it's not the best RAM overclocker. ASUS is having problems with AGESA right now... ...my b-die will not do more than 3466mhz period on it. Also has problems with lower CAS latencies than 16, it seems. I can only barely do CL14 @ 3200. And it's like a hard wall. I believe that's actually a firmware limitation. It allows me to select higher speed and plug in whatever latencies I want - has all of the advanced timings listed too, but there's no way to get it to work, even at loose timings. I'm just hoping they get it worked out soon - it's still a problem with many ASUS boards. Something isn't jiving for them. Fortunately they're still pushing updates for it. I just got a new one yesterday.

To be fair, it overclocks lesser/average RAM very, very well - I have a pair of micron 4GB sticks that it'll take all the way from 2400 to 3200 at CL18!

Just things to consider. I consider mine a steal at $120 (open box.) It does great with Ryzen 2. It has a respectable power section. The BIOS layout is easy, reasonably detailed and responsive. It's a legit option, so long as you're not looking to go to hard on the RAM overclocking. Most RAM, it should be able to get Ryzen 2 what it needs, just not much more unfortunately.


----------



## HTC (Sep 26, 2018)

Mussels said:


> not available at that store (the only one in town), i'd have to wait a week or so without a system for delivery



Can you convince your sister to wait a week or so, per chance?


----------



## Mussels (Sep 26, 2018)

she needs her PC today, if i dont sell her my parts she'll get whatever the store has in stock and i miss out on the chance to upgrade

I think the asus prime X470 will be on par/better than my MSI so its more of a sidegrade to the new chipset, but probably worth it in a way because i can leave my OC settings intact on this board for her with my 1700

edit: people are saying that the 2700x has single core turbo of 4.35 and all core turbo of 4.0, both of which are noticeably faster than my current manual OC (3.75Ghz is the ceiling, higher gets randonly unstable)

Since thats the stock turbo clocks, even a budget shitty board wont have any issues achieving that speed


----------



## HTC (Sep 26, 2018)

Mussels said:


> *she needs her PC today*, if i dont sell her my parts she'll get whatever the store has in stock and i miss out on the chance to upgrade
> 
> I think the asus prime X470 will be on par/better than my MSI so its more of a sidegrade to the new chipset, but probably worth it in a way because i can leave my OC settings intact on this board for her with my 1700



It's getting closer to 1 AM over here. For a bit i was like ... huh????

Then i remembered you're from Australia ... i had small brain fart ...


----------



## SIGSEGV (Sep 26, 2018)

Mussels said:


> edit: people are saying that the 2700x has single core turbo of 4.35 and all core turbo of 4.0, both of which are noticeably faster than my current manual OC (3.75Ghz is the ceiling, higher gets randonly unstable)
> 
> Since thats the stock turbo clocks, even a budget shitty board wont have any issues achieving that speed



i think all core turbo of 2700X is around 4.2 - 4.3 but i am not sure lol


----------



## Mussels (Sep 26, 2018)

Ended up getting the Aorus AX370-Gaming 5

Sidegrade more than an upgrade, but it has voltage offsets and P-state overclocking control at the cost of one M.2 slot

Color scheme suits my case better anyway with the white accents


----------



## SIGSEGV (Sep 27, 2018)

Mussels said:


> Ended up getting the Aorus AX370-Gaming 5
> 
> Sidegrade more than an upgrade, but it has voltage offsets and P-state overclocking control at the cost of one M.2 slot
> 
> Color scheme suits my case better anyway with the white accents



does RGB fusion software work properly on your Aorus motherboard?.


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## Mussels (Sep 27, 2018)

SIGSEGV said:


> does RGB fusion software work properly on your Aorus motherboard?.



... no it seems really weird. i have BIOS control which i'm okay with tho.


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## robot zombie (Sep 27, 2018)

Mussels said:


> Ended up getting the Aorus AX370-Gaming 5
> 
> Sidegrade more than an upgrade, but it has voltage offsets and P-state overclocking control at the cost of one M.2 slot
> 
> Color scheme suits my case better anyway with the white accents


Hmhp... rad fans not RGB. Not impressed.


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## Mussels (Sep 27, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> Hmhp... rad fans not RGB. Not impressed.



they arent visible with the side panel on, or they'd be there


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## robot zombie (Sep 27, 2018)

Mussels said:


> they arent visible with the side panel on, or they'd be there


I'm just bustin yer chops man.  It looks great.

I've been running this 4.2ghz, 1.3v overclock for a while now but lately I've been thinking of taking it down a notch. Sick of my fans kicking up for everything. The voltage jump needed to hit 4.2 vs 4.1 is rather high, and so is the temperature gain. Under the meanest, heaviest stress testing that 4.2ghz overclock will push things up to ~75C. Which isn't terrible for me, but it's the limit of what my cooling setup can handle. Not that I ever hit that - the closest I get is when my heavily compressed backups run. For gaming and audio stuff I may see 60C at most.

The really annoying thing about this board is that fans are actually tied to socket temp instead of core temp, so I have a much narrower region to set my curves to... ...between 28C and just over 60C (SOCKET temp, not CPU.) Seems like a minor thing, but it really is a huge PITA. For whatever reason, and I don't know if it's this motherboard, or just the combination of this board and the 2600, but in HWiNFO64, the sensor marked CPU is socket temp, and that's what the fans follow, whether via BIOS or software. It's so beyond stupid, I can't understand...

And since it's not responding to core temps, once the socket heats up they just run and run, even if the CPU has dropped from 80C to 60C.  So to keep up with that 4.2 OC, I have to set them to basically max when the socket hits just over 60C. But the CPU could be significantly hotter or cooler than that at any point. Fans won't know that. The socket doesn't really get hotter than 65C no matter what. Basically makes it so I have to make the fans ramp up towards max speed way before I need them to just to have the air when I really need it. But what this means is that when I'm gaming and hitting 55C, the fans are running at like 75% or 80%. And that 80% isn't doing more than 60% would do for it. And then when I stop the game, the fans will continue to run hard for a solid minute after, while the socket cools, even though the CPU has long since dropped to its 30C idle.

The flipside is that say my CPU jumps to 75C quickly. It will take as long as 10 seconds before the fans rise to meet the needs of that, because the socket is still warming up. It's possible it wouldn't hit that temperature to begin with if the damned fans had just kicked up when they were supposed to 

I could set up a bunch of different fan curves, but I like stuff to work one way and have that one way work for everything. Once it's setup I shouldn't need to mess with it to keep it working like I want it to.

Or I could set it to have the fans "cap out" at whatever speed I want for my usual usage. Set the fan curves to max at like 75C and then put a dot at 60C running whatever percentage I want. Since the socket doesn't go much over 60 the fans wouldn't speed up past that. And yet as long as they're spinning fast enough at that point, they'll keep it cool and reasonably quiet. But somehow I don't like that. I just think, well, what if I ever do run something more demanding? Then I'm in for a thermal shutdown situation.

So I said screw it, swapped MX-4 for Kryonaut, and dropped the CPU down to 4.1ghz @ 1.225v. Biiig step down for minimal performance loss. Now IBT only pushes me up to 63 or 64C. Small FFT's plateau about 61C. And now I never have my fans maxing. I barely even hear them. Temperature still went down while playing Fallout 4, even bringing the fan curves down. The room also stays much, much cooler during long gaming sessions 

Funny how that happens with core clock and power, though. 4.1 and below, temperature, current, and voltage go up in small increments. But take it up to 4.2 and suddenly the voltage has to go way up, power usage goes up by at least 20W, current draw increases by like 20%, and temperatures go up at least a full 10C. I'm assuming that sharp efficiency drop has something to do with infinity fabric. It's just... ...it really is an insane amount of heat to get 100mhz.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 28, 2018)

I cant figure out if i should bother OCing this chip or leaving it on the stock XFR, with a ram OC i'm getting really high benchmarks and seeing large FPS gains in games - something like 20FPS higher in starcraft II (40FPS average late game), and 30FPS higher in PUBG (apart from drops as areas/players load in, i'm quite constant at 144)

AMD really, REALLY nailed it with the second gen X chips


----------



## Johan45 (Sep 28, 2018)

The "X" variants really don't need much if any OC. Boosting to 4350 on a couple cores 4000 +- on all. If you want to raise your all-core boost look for the core perf boost overdrive in the AMD CBS settings. This allows you to stay on auto voltage with all boost function but will raise the all-core boost as high as the voltage/cooling will allow but not over the native boost max of 4350. Achieving 4.1 or 4.15 should be possible without too much effort


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## YautjaLord (Sep 28, 2018)

Have being fiddling with all the options in AMD CBS thingy (it's in "Peripherals", ffs!!! ), comes when you install F22 UEFI update. Only thing i touched/enabled was Custom Pstates/Throttling P0 option, the rest @ Auto. Things to learn:
DF Common Options
NBIO Common options
UMI Common Options.
What _are these_? How do you tweak them? WTF?  Right now @ 3.9GHz/1.4v, but after 3rd run of Cinebench R15 was "greated" with Win 10 Recovery BSOD. So far it looks like this:
CPU frequency: 100MHz
Multiplier: x39
vCore: 1.4v
SoC: 1.05v
DRAM voltage: 1.35
SoC LLC: Turbo
vCore LLC: Turbo
Rest @ Auto.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 28, 2018)

So I've got a 2600x crosshair hero7 and ram arriving tomorrow , Can i join your den of tranquility.


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## Johan45 (Sep 28, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> So I've got a 2600x crosshair hero7 and ram arriving tomorrow , Can i join your den of tranquility.


You'll enjoy it, a nice step up from the 8350 even with 2 fewer cores.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 28, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> You'll enjoy it, a nice step up from the 8350 even with 2 fewer cores.


I wanted an upgrade path, to save a few coin and I really , really didn't have the money.
But what's food to me lolz, expendable.

Kin phones are shit , mine knows words i don't.


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## GoldenX (Sep 28, 2018)

I'm waiting for the Zen2 APUs as the next upgrade, it may be a downgrade in graphics performance, but 65w alone vs 65 + 180w is hard to beat.


----------



## robot zombie (Sep 29, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> So I've got a 2600x crosshair hero7 and ram arriving tomorrow , Can i join your den of tranquility.


Enjoy it dude, I'm excited for you! 2600X is a killer chip. They're right in that sweet spot of competitive price point and serious get-shit-done territory. You can easily build a legit high-end machine around one. If someone told me such strong and balanced performance could be had in a hexa-core for that money a couple of years ago, I'd have laughed.


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## Mussels (Sep 29, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> The "X" variants really don't need much if any OC. Boosting to 4350 on a couple cores 4000 +- on all. If you want to raise your all-core boost look for the core perf boost overdrive in the AMD CBS settings. This allows you to stay on auto voltage with all boost function but will raise the all-core boost as high as the voltage/cooling will allow but not over the native boost max of 4350. Achieving 4.1 or 4.15 should be possible without too much effort




I dont have CBO with x370, thats the one feature that needs x470

4.1 all core and 4.35 single seems to be what i'm getting, and pulling that off at stock settings just seems absurd... its been so long since a CPU came out that didnt need tweaking to get max performance


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## robot zombie (Sep 29, 2018)

Mussels said:


> I dont have CBO with x370, thats the one feature that needs x470
> 
> 4.1 all core and 4.35 single seems to be what i'm getting, and pulling that off at stock settings just seems absurd... its been so long since a CPU came out that didnt need tweaking to get max performance


That's friggen awesome performance... sounds like you really got a winner there! 4.1 all core is what I'm doing with my manual OC on my 2600. At most I can squeeze out 4.2. I'm lucky, my chip takes really low voltages to drive those boosts (1.22 for 4.1!) Still, running a flat-bar manual overclock limits me, power and temperature-wise.

I dunno, to have SC boost up to 4.35 and still hold that 4.1 across all cores sounds pretty sweet to me. Especially on an 8-core! I agree that is kind of absurd.

That's one thing where I think AMD really knocked it out. I think they must've known that their chips would need extra tuning to really perform. Anyone who's messed with one knows Ryzen CPU's can be incredibly finnicky. But AMD didn't want to be that "Well, if you set this and that it'll do this." They put a lot of emphasis on tuning and out of the box performance. I think Ryzen is one of the best I've seen in that regard. I remember reading all of the crazy shit you'd have to do with FX to get these big increases in benchmarks and such... ...and on one hand it's great that there's a way to do that, but even better if it just did, you know? Sometimes no OC headroom is a good thing. Means the makers sat down and really got to know their chips and tuned them as optimally as possible.

And lets face it, the manufacturer is always going to do a better job than your typical overclocker... ...if they want to, that is. The engineers working on it know those chips better than any of us even have a way to. It's cool to see that actually put to use. It's good to have options and we all love getting 20% or more improvements, but it's nice when you don't have to. Means they're already performing to their full potential. Like, when the performance is already there and you have to ask yourself, "Why overclock?" that's probably a good thing. That never happens.


----------



## Flyordie (Sep 29, 2018)

Well...  Do Threadripper owners get to join?


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## GoldenX (Sep 29, 2018)

Flyordie said:


> Well...  Do Threadripper owners get to join?


Of course, but a Cinebench is mandatory.


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## Vya Domus (Sep 29, 2018)

Even though the memory speeds won't budge at the very least it appears that I got a fairly good chip. 3.9 Ghz with just 1.35V.


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## GoldenX (Sep 29, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> Even though the memory speeds won't budge at the very least it appears that I got a fairly good chip. 3.9 Ghz with just 1.35V.


Same here then. Try 1.45v if temps allow it, maybe you can reach 4GHz.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 29, 2018)

So ,It lives, not messed much but its doing 4.1 on all cores ,but that's first hour im going to take some time with it.
I got the wrong memory apparently ,damn ordering at 2am ,i got Corsair vengeance 3000 as a compromise on cost but it isn't happy at 3000 , best so far is 2933 and it's memory fail is a pain in the ass boot loop.
Still first hour im happy enough, but damn ,i am of the mind fx8350 were no where near as shit as some say too , i didn't gain many frames in the upgrade but time will tell.


----------



## YautjaLord (Sep 29, 2018)

Small update & a pic if you will: just got the "Aorus" logo on my EK-FB GA-AX370 Gaming monoblock working (yay ), but then suddenly outtta f*ckin' nowhere something else popped up - set the vCore to my usual 1.375v, what do i see - jumped straight to 1.548v  & no matter what i did, when @ Auto all well & good, 1.38v on vCore & temps are not fluctuating, once set to any voltage manually, 1.548v & stays there. Made me go in my head "WTF is this shit???!!!!!" Found workaround for this: unplugged the 24-pin power connector & plugged it into LCS's 24-pin adaptor thingy, removed the air bubbles (had to reconnect properly the LED RGB connector which involved temporally removing the res that stood in a way of graphics card screws & card itself, & it made the coolant move places, laws of physics abide ), turned back on - 1.380v now & all snappy. Pic of RGB awesomeness:



Yes, it also illuminates inside where coolant runs. I have joined the LED RGB craze club?  jk Cheers, enjoy. Looks like "Reign In Blood" plays inside the rig from my POV. lol


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## Vya Domus (Sep 29, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> i got Corsair vengeance 3000



Which kit exactly ? I got something along those lines but mine doesn't want to do shit. Could you post a picture with the timings you use ?


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## robot zombie (Sep 29, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> So ,It lives, not messed much but its doing 4.1 on all cores ,but that's first hour im going to take some time with it.
> I got the wrong memory apparently ,damn ordering at 2am ,i got Corsair vengeance 3000 as a compromise on cost but it isn't happy at 3000 , best so far is 2933 and it's memory fail is a pain in the ass boot loop.
> Still first hour im happy enough, but damn ,i am of the mind fx8350 were no where near as shit as some say too , i didn't gain many frames in the upgrade but time will tell.


Ryzen is definitely picky about memory. It prefers certain ones over others, drastically. Motherboards are like that too. Mine only does 3466 max even though my ram is marked as 3600, others have boards that do less, even with the best Ryzen ram. Board makers don't make it easy. Some will list up to 3466 and it will actually do more. Others will list 3600 and you'll never hit it. Others list 3466+ which means... ...4000? 

Idk it's kind of confusing and there's a lot you can't immediately know. Consensus is that Samsung b-die is the best for Ryzen. You'll know because it'll be pretty much the only ram you see advertising 3200 CL14. That and they'll be something like $60 more on average.

There really needs to be a PSA. Why all of this info can't just be made totally transparent by manufacturers and vendors is beyond me. That's the tradeoff... ...the CPU's themselves max out like it's nothing. Every time. But the RAM is finnicky as all hell. And unfortunately RAM speed makes a pretty substantial difference. With RAM prices being as they are, nobody wants to play carnival games when it comes to getting the performance they're expecting...

One thing I'd like to see on ALL RAM is dual XMP tables. Seems like there's nothing that makes a particular set for Intel or AMD other than whichever platform the manufacturer decided to configure them for. Physically they're the same. It's just a question of whether you want to manually overclock or not. It would also be nice to have speed ratings for both platforms. The same sticks will generally go faster on Intel than they will AMD, save for b-die.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 30, 2018)

It was late, i should have known better, but it's done now, I'll do my best with it as is for now.
Well I will be messing but I'll keep the ram a bit.
Cheers good info ,them b dies are dearer damnit.

@Vya Domus will do but on fifa atm


----------



## robot zombie (Sep 30, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> It was late, i should have known better, but it's done now, I'll do my best with it as is for now.
> Well I will be messing but I'll keep the ram a bit.
> Cheers good info ,them b dies are dearer damnit.


They really are. I lamented for a long time before I caved and dropped the $200+. I'll say this... ...I'm glad I did - it's a real improvement, but I wish I would've known my x370-F could only do 3466 max. I guess 3466 16-15-15-15-32-54 ain't bad though. Don't even wanna tell you what I had to go through to get that going. Some people have it so easy.

Do mess with it though. Grab Thaiphoon Burner and identify what dies you actually have, pick up the DRAM calc and experiment. Might have to go looser than it suggests, but it's a good starting point. Sometimes what you're looking at is a hard wall - mobo won't post certain speeds and/or primaries, but often there's wiggle. And it's almost always one tiny nudge away, if it's gonna happen at all.

Power is super-touchy. Once you find a point where it will boot, .05v up OR down can be the difference between stable and not. It's a pita, but once you get timings that post, you really have to start incrementally going through every voltage level until you find one that's stable. And if you can't, or you're going up in voltage and stability is going backwards, go back to the last most stable DRAM voltage and start messing with SOC. If nothing works there, it's timings or termination. IME it's worth loosening secondaries first in this case. That's the order that works for me, anyway.

Like I said, pita. But if you're gonna stick with it, can't hurt to put in the time here and there. I did it in baby steps "Welp, I got x-speed to post today. Time to stop." or "Finally got past that BSOD on boot." or "Hey, that config didn't immediately spit out errors in prime95." Those are points where the only sane thing to do is save the profile and stop. It can be a process to get a less ideal setup to run good RAM speeds, though there's usually a way. Bout the best thing I can say about it. Some are luckier than others. Can't win if you don't play, though.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 30, 2018)

Current goal is tweaking the ram... I've got 3200 C16, so i'm going to see if lower timings is possible, or higher MHz - currently 3400C16 working fine at XMP voltages/timings


----------



## AlwaysHope (Sep 30, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> Ryzen is definitely picky about memory. It prefers certain ones over others, drastically. Motherboards are like that too. Mine only does 3466 max even though my ram is marked as 3600, others have boards that do less, even with the best Ryzen ram. Board makers don't make it easy. Some will list up to 3466 and it will actually do more. Others will list 3600 and you'll never hit it. Others list 3466+ which means... ...4000?
> 
> Idk it's kind of confusing and there's a lot you can't immediately know. Consensus is that Samsung b-die is the best for Ryzen. You'll know because it'll be pretty much the only ram you see advertising 3200 CL14. That and they'll be something like $60 more on average.
> 
> ...



That's  the  way AMD designed Zen architecture,  you know with the CCX bus topology & all... not much, us consumers can do about it. 

b die Samsung that is single rank lot easier to OC, not double rank like with the sticks I have. To get stability with OC on double ranked sticks, enable gear down mode. It gets fiddly I know... lol... + being an early adopter of B450 platform is the price I pay for handicapped OC until bios maturity.


----------



## YautjaLord (Sep 30, 2018)

These are the voltages for 3.8GHz & from what i gathered throughout the interwebz only thing to change in entire AMD CBS Custom Pstates/Throttling is the P0, set it to manual. Any thoughts, lend a hand anyone?  I tell y'all you never know with all of these what will f*ck things up & what not. Things were way simpler back in a FX-8350 days.  jk


----------



## robot zombie (Sep 30, 2018)

AlwaysHope said:


> That's  the  way AMD designed Zen architecture,  you know with the CCX bus topology & all... not much, us consumers can do about it.


Bahh... I know. Im okay with that whole deal. I just wish compatibility was better and performance was a little more transparent. It would make all the difference for a lot of people. I know its always a game of catch-up with RAM but it still feel like things could be a little more unified. The intel side of things is just a lot better hashed out. Not really AMDs fault though. 



> b die Samsung that is single rank lot easier to OC, not double rank like with the sticks I have. To get stability with OC on double ranked sticks, enable gear down mode. It gets fiddly I know... lol... + being an early adopter of B450 platform is the price I pay for handicapped OC until bios maturity.


Haha people like you are the real heroes, delving headlong into lands unknown so others dont have to 

And yeah Ive heard of peoples woes with dual rank. Though it looks like we'll soon have some of those with better compatibility and better speed for those who need higher capacity.

Geardown helps with any RAM ime. If youre running speeds much higher than 3200 its almost a requirement. For even CAS anyway. 2T may help with odd timings... or so Ive read. Not had success myself but perhaps not related.

B-die is nice but it cant save you from a gimped bios.


----------



## Johan45 (Sep 30, 2018)

Mussels said:


> Current goal is tweaking the ram... I've got 3200 C16, so i'm going to see if lower timings is possible, or higher MHz - currently 3400C16 working fine at XMP voltages/timings





theoneandonlymrk said:


> So ,It lives, not messed much but its doing 4.1 on all cores ,but that's first hour im going to take some time with it.
> I got the wrong memory apparently ,damn ordering at 2am ,i got Corsair vengeance 3000 as a compromise on cost but it isn't happy at 3000 , best so far is 2933 and it's memory fail is a pain in the ass boot loop.
> Still first hour im happy enough, but damn ,i am of the mind fx8350 were no where near as shit as some say too , i didn't gain many frames in the upgrade but time will tell.



It really is worth getting the better RAM and higher speed will do better than tighter timings since the RAM bus is tied to the Infinity Fabric. Speeding up the RAM will give a slight boost to the whole CPU since it speeds up communications between CCX. A few pages back I had some screenies of 4000 MHz RAM ( not even close to stable) and I have this from today at 3600MHz really close to stable but I don't use it daily either this was just for benchmarking. But the increase from 3200 to 3600 was definitely noticeable in overall results


----------



## Mussels (Sep 30, 2018)

jesus, 4.6Ghz


----------



## Johan45 (Sep 30, 2018)

Mussels said:


> jesus, 4.6Ghz


Running a chilled loop for benching, starts around -20C


----------



## cdawall (Sep 30, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Running a chilled loop for benching, starts around -20C



Wanna see my asrock board catch on fire? Bet I can do it with the chilled loop


----------



## Johan45 (Sep 30, 2018)

cdawall said:


> Wanna see my asrock board catch on fire? Bet I can do it with the chilled loop


I always did like fireworks!


----------



## cdawall (Sep 30, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> I always did like fireworks!



I think I have already come up on nearly double what it was designed to sustain, what is a little more.


----------



## GoldenX (Sep 30, 2018)

Beware the blast radius.


----------



## Johan45 (Sep 30, 2018)

cdawall said:


> I think I have already come up on nearly double what it was designed to sustain, what is a little more.



Asrock has always made me nervous with high current draw


----------



## cdawall (Sep 30, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Asrock has always made me nervous with high current draw



This board has the same VRM setup as the Asus X399 zenith extreme, but the cooler on the Asus is in theory better.


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 1, 2018)

Depends on what they did before the chokes.


----------



## cdawall (Oct 1, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Depends on what they did before the chokes.



I haven't toasted this one yet and have it set to 4.2ghz all 32 cores. So it cannot be that awful


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 1, 2018)

They must have done something right, like no shortcuts this time.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 1, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> Which kit exactly ? I got something along those lines but mine doesn't want to do shit. Could you post a picture with the timings you use ?


I was going to post them but , after a gaming session i am getting C2D or full Bsd fails, so im not convinced it's stable but ill post pics later.
Fails after 20+ mins so i think heats involved somewhere. Hopefully i can get it sussed.


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 1, 2018)

Try running the RAM at base speed, if that works it could need a slight voltage bump for the DRAM or that RAM just isn't going to play nice


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 1, 2018)

The temps on CPU @ idle, at least when i turn on the rig:



Not too big of a difference between the monoblock's EK-TIM Ectotherm & Thermal Grizzly TIM according to reviews throughout the web. Maybe i'll switch to later when 2700X will be in my grasp, regardless.


----------



## GoldenX (Oct 1, 2018)

My 1200 says 4° at boot on BIOS, normal on Windows, weird.


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 1, 2018)

It's 65W TDP, 4 cores/8 threads CPU, that i can tell for a fact, have you updated BIOS/UEFI? Not familiar with MSI mobos or anything from that company basically, ASUS, AsRock & Gigabyte - only motherboard companies i'm familiar with.


----------



## SIGSEGV (Oct 1, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> It really is worth getting the better RAM and higher speed will do better than tighter timings since the RAM bus is tied to the Infinity Fabric. Speeding up the RAM will give a slight boost to the whole CPU since it speeds up communications between CCX. A few pages back I had some screenies of 4000 MHz RAM ( not even close to stable) and I have this from today at 3600MHz really close to stable but I don't use it daily either this was just for benchmarking. But the increase from 3200 to 3600 was definitely noticeable in overall results



OMG, that's 1.54v core voltage @4.6Ghz really amaze me.


----------



## HTC (Oct 1, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> *It really is worth getting the better RAM and higher speed will do better than tighter timings since the RAM bus is tied to the Infinity Fabric.* Speeding up the RAM will give a slight boost to the whole CPU since it speeds up communications between CCX. A few pages back I had some screenies of 4000 MHz RAM ( not even close to stable) and I have this from today at 3600MHz really close to stable but I don't use it daily either this was just for benchmarking. *But the increase from 3200 to 3600 was definitely noticeable in overall results*



If AMD ever manage to have RAM speeds higher (think over 4000MHz) to work with RyZen arch in an plug & play like fashion (XMP timing selection???), this platform will have a serious boost to overall performance.

It improved since AGESA 1.0.0.6 and it's noticeably better but still far from goal: imagine running a Ryzen 2700X with DDR4 4800 or there about ...


----------



## GoldenX (Oct 1, 2018)

We would need lower RAM prices first.


----------



## HTC (Oct 2, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> We would need lower RAM prices first.



Indeed ...


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 2, 2018)

Have to shed some light on what's going on in my venture to the OC/OV land (well more like OV for my 3.8GHz OC, but i digress ): prior to me updating the BIOS to version F22 i was @ F4 (awesome version), vCore was @ 1.4v, SoC voltage @ 1.1v, 3.8GHz scored me a nice 1669cb in Cinebench R15; now, with F22 all good & stable, Small FFTs Prime95 test passed 2h+ mark, *BUT *- i get lower R15 score than the default 3.4GHz clock. All other tests are stable as well as multiple runs of R15, single & multi threaded, but the scores in R15 put me to shame compared to what i had with F4 EFI update. Just saying, cause when you all see the vid with all of these (R15 included) say RIP to my prev scores in it.  jk Yeah i'm working on the vid as i type this text.  Cheers.


----------



## HTC (Oct 2, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> Have to shed some light on what's going on in my venture to the OC/OV land (well more like OV for my 3.8GHz OC, but i digress ): prior to me updating the BIOS to version F22 i was @ F4 (awesome version), vCore was @ 1.4v, SoC voltage @ 1.1v, 3.8GHz scored me a nice 1669cb in Cinebench R15; now, with F22 all good & stable, Small FFTs Prime95 test passed 2h+ mark, *BUT *- i get lower R15 score than the default 3.4GHz clock. All other tests are stable as well as multiple runs of R15, single & multi threaded, but the scores in R15 put me to shame compared to what i had with F4 EFI update. Just saying, cause when you all see the vid with all of these (R15 included) say RIP to my prev scores in it.  jk Yeah i'm working on the vid as i type this text.  Cheers.



That's a bit strange: unless the RAM somehow downgraded to 2133, i dunno how that can be.


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 2, 2018)

3200MHz & stays there, on both modules. I have 1700 (non-X), in a box, with it's HSF lying on a shelf, gathering dust, but it would be quite a pain in a butt to disassemble LCS, just to replace 1700X with it. Flare X, Samsung b-Die, single rank, mobo has XMP option, set it, got me 3200MHz, CL14, 1.35v, works to this day.


----------



## HTC (Oct 2, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> 3200MHz & stays there, on both modules. I have 1700 (non-X), in a box, with it's HSF lying on a shelf, gathering dust, but it would be quite a pain in a butt to disassemble LCS, just to replace 1700X with it. Flare X, Samsung b-Die, single rank, mobo has XMP option, set it, got me 3200MHz, CL14, 1.35v, works to this day.



Then i have no idea how an overclocked chip @ 400 MHz higher then stock can perform worse than stock.

Only thing i can think of is it's throttling heavily but, since it passes the torture stability tests, that's not it.


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 2, 2018)

Probably throttling. I've yet to figure out the options in "Pstates/Throttling" section of AMD CBS that i got with F22 UEFI update for my mobo (GA-AX370 Gaming K7), but i bet the answer is there. Can't put my finger on it for now, though. I hope 2700X, no - i believe 2700X will put both of my 1700X scores i have (with F4 & F22) right now to shame, 4.3GHz/1.4v vCore with 2000+ cb - that's my goal. If I can squeeze out 4.4GHz stable (doubt it, but one can hope ) with my LCS + that EK monoblock - pure f*ckin' awesomeness.

P.S. Running Blender Video Editor, it converts MP4 file of my Carmageddon: Max Damage gameplay footage to .blend file, while still keeping my altered MPEG-4 file intact + typing this text here, CPU usage (as reported by HWinfo64) is - 17.x% max, temps - 50-ish.


----------



## HTC (Oct 2, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> *Probably throttling.* I've yet to figure out the options in "Pstates/Throttling" section of AMD CBS that i got with F22 UEFI update for my mobo (GA-AX370 Gaming K7), but i bet the answer is there. Can't put my finger on it for now, though. I hope 2700X, no - i believe 2700X will put both of my 1700X scores i have (with F4 & F22) right now to shame, 4.3GHz/1.4v vCore with 2000+ cb - that's my goal. If I can squeeze out 4.4GHz stable (doubt it, but one can hope ) with my LCS + that EK monoblock - pure f*ckin' awesomeness.
> 
> P.S. Running Blender Video Editor, it converts MP4 file of my Carmageddon: Max Damage gameplay footage to .blend file, while still keeping my altered MPEG-4 file intact + typing this text here, CPU usage (as reported by HWinfo64) is - 17.x% max, temps - 50-ish.



Try lowering to 3.6 GHz and reduce the volts a tad bit: if it's throttling, then the scores should return to be higher then @ stock (multi-thread).

Also: you should double check your monoblock to make sure there's nothing wrong with it. Different brand, but you never know.


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 2, 2018)

The scores @ 3.8 & 3.9GHz were stable @ R15, but failed Prime95 Small FFTs test miserably. That was under F4 version of BIOS, Small FFTs test couldn't even reach half-an-hour mark. VCore was @ 1.4v though, SoC - 1.1/1.2v.  lol Maybe i'll raise vCore to 1.4v again, SoC - will leave it @ 0.987v for now. LLCs @ High right now. Will do it in 8 or 9 hours from now though, gotta sleep - i do NOT want to pass out from depriving myself from sleep in a middle of a test, now do i?  jk Cheers.


----------



## HTC (Oct 2, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> The scores @ 3.8 & 3.9GHz were stable @ R15, but failed Prime95 Small FFTs test miserably. That was under F4 version of BIOS, Small FFTs test couldn't even reach half-an-hour mark. VCore was @ 1.4v though, SoC - 1.1/1.2v.  lol Maybe i'll raise vCore to 1.4v again, SoC - will leave it @ 0.987v for now. LLCs @ High right now. Will do it in 8 or 9 hours from now though, gotta sleep - i do NOT want to pass out from depriving myself from sleep in a middle of a test, now do i?  jk Cheers.



As mentioned in previous post, the suggestion was to dial down on the overclock to see it it was throttling before the dial down: if so, then a quick R15 multi would show improvements over stock.

Quite possibly, the new BIOS changed some key, "more obscure" settings from previous BIOS which means more voltage *may* fix it, but do try the other suggestion 1st.


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## Mussels (Oct 3, 2018)

VRMs could be throttling, run something like intel burn test on normal for 100 loops and see if the scores suddenly drop as the heat builds up


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## cdawall (Oct 3, 2018)

I figured the CPU score would go much higher on these...

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/29030387?


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## YautjaLord (Oct 3, 2018)

Good news: i got me 1635cb in R15, so 3.8GHz/1.4v vCore is working & i beleive fiddling even a bit more with it & SoC voltages will get me somewhere.
Bad news: i have internet on my phone & not on my rig (ISP done f*cked it up, technician comes this Friday morning) so i will only post a pic of the score this Friday. Cheers.

Small update: ran R15 again few mins ago just for a sake of it ,1639cb but it's still above my F4 EFI 3.4GHz score, 30cb lower than my 3.8GHz F4 score, but why would i give a half of a flying f*ck. lol Cheers again.


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## Johan45 (Oct 3, 2018)

cdawall said:


> I figured the CPU score would go much higher on these...
> 
> https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/29030387?


Yeah that certainly doesn't seem right to me. Here's a comparison with an 8700K, looked for my Ryzen but I haven't done that one I guess
https://www.3dmark.com/compare/spy/4569213/spy/3023757
Found one with a 1700X/RX580 for comparison still outscored your 2990WX by a good margin
https://www.3dmark.com/compare/spy/4569213/spy/3023757/spy/2997029


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## HTC (Oct 3, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> Good news: i got me 1635cb in R15, so 3.8GHz/1.4v vCore is working & i beleive fiddling even a bit more with it & SoC voltages will get me somewhere.
> Bad news: i have internet on my phone & not on my rig (ISP done f*cked it up, technician comes this Friday morning) so i will only post a pic of the score this Friday. Cheers.
> 
> *Small update: ran R15 again few mins ago just for a sake of it ,1639cb but it's still above my F4 EFI 3.4GHz score, 30cb lower than my 3.8GHz F4 score, but why would i give a half of a flying f*ck. lol *Cheers again.



Stress test those settings: if it passes, great.

If it fails in any of them, lower your settings a tad bit and repeat the tests, until it succeeds: once it does, lower them just a tad bit more and you should have a rock solid system.

@ least, that's what i would do. Perhaps others more experienced do it in other ways? Dunno, really: i'm not very experienced with this myself.


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## Mussels (Oct 3, 2018)

nomnomnnom crunchy numbers


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## YautjaLord (Oct 3, 2018)

@HTC: with the 1.38v vCore it passed 2h of Small FFTs test (F22 BIOS/EFI), shouldn't be a prob, i'm the one to raise voltages what can i say, OC needs juice, even 400MHz one. With Ryzen your venture into OC land can go either way, you should know. lol Cheers.

@Mussels: i envy you, but not for long.


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## Johan45 (Oct 3, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> @HTC: with the 1.38v vCore it passed 2h of Small FFTs test (F22 BIOS/EFI), shouldn't be a prob, i'm the one to raise voltages what can i say, OC needs juice, even 400MHz one. With Ryzen your venture into OC land can go either way, you should know. lol Cheers.
> 
> @Mussels: i envy you, but not for long.



Small FFT is OK for testing but because of the way the new Ryzen is built it's not enough and doesn't test any RAM. I usually do custom with 75% of my RAM selected so out of 16 GB I set 13000 MB




Mussels said:


> nomnomnnom crunchy numbers



Right where it should be


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## Mussels (Oct 3, 2018)

i just love that its decimating the 12C intel in the list so thoroughly


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## Johan45 (Oct 3, 2018)

Mussels said:


> i just love that its decimating the 12C intel in the list so thoroughly



If I'm not mistaken the X5650 is a 6c/12T lga 1366 so that would be two CPUs, wouldn't it?  Does that equal three times better ha ha


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## HTC (Oct 3, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> @HTC: with the 1.38v vCore it passed 2h of Small FFTs test (F22 BIOS/EFI), shouldn't be a prob, i'm the one to raise voltages what can i say, OC needs juice, even 400MHz one. With Ryzen your venture into OC land can go either way, you should know. lol Cheers.
> 
> @Mussels: i envy you, but not for long.



You're the one using Windows: an unstable system is prone to have errors and BSODs, which could lead to data loss in worst case scenario.

I'm not OCing @ all, with the exception of RAM which is @ 3200 CL16 via XMP: everything else @ stock.


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## cdawall (Oct 3, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Yeah that certainly doesn't seem right to me. Here's a comparison with an 8700K, looked for my Ryzen but I haven't done that one I guess
> https://www.3dmark.com/compare/spy/4569213/spy/3023757
> Found one with a 1700X/RX580 for comparison still outscored your 2990WX by a good margin
> https://www.3dmark.com/compare/spy/4569213/spy/3023757/spy/2997029



I'm going to kill it down to 16 cores no SMT and see if it helps. I haven't done research yet, but was hearing that time spy maxes at 18 cores so maybe it was being dumb with core selection.


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## YautjaLord (Oct 3, 2018)

HTC said:


> You're the one using Windows: an unstable system is prone to have errors and BSODs, which could lead to data loss in worst case scenario.
> 
> I'm not OCing @ all, with the exception of RAM which is @ 3200 CL16 via XMP: everything else @ stock.



Works fine for me, i simply love the way things are with my rig. Actually running Prime95 Small FFTs test right now on my current settings (3.8GHz, 1.4v vCore, 0.987v SoC, etc....), only thing different is i also changed P0 P-State from Auto to Manual but haven't touched anything else there. 46 mins into the test right now, current temp is 65-ish. On all 8 cores/16 threads. 100% CPU usage. Oh & there's a surprise coming this Friday, i got myself some nice score in R15. So i guess nothing wrong right now with my rig & despite being bloatware, Win 10 behaves good on my rig (well actually on my M.2 NVMe SSD, but i digress ). As for making Win 10 behave nice - Google is your friend, so.... Yeah, the force is strong with that one.  jk Cheers.

@cdawall: 'ssup Carmageddoner.  I have news for you regarding Carmageddon: Max Damage: i made a gameplay video of me using custom "car" in CarMODgeddon (the part of the game where you play with all custom stuff, cars, etc...) as part of my YT "review" of my monoblock. Wanna join MP? Yeah i'll also record and/or stream it as well if you don't mind. Good to see ya dude.

P. S. Writing from my Galaxy A6, cause ISP got f*cked (Bezeq, quite ancient ISP, they still use ADSL & telephone miniport/filter that goes inside wall socket to get internet signal). They'll fix this connection to their servers issue only this Friday.

*EDIT*

It passed Prime95 Small FFTs 2h+ run @ 3.8GHz/1.4v vCore an hour ago. And i have a shitload of R15 scores in one pic to share here this Friday as well. Aaaaand.... it _was _throttling but not anymore. I'd love to dig into the AMD CBS thingy this weekend you bet. Cheers.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 3, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> Which kit exactly ? I got something along those lines but mine doesn't want to do shit. Could you post a picture with the timings you use ?



so after messing Im presently at the timings below , all other timings on auto and Tras and tRC were originally auto found , with this CH7 I am having random crashes at the minute if i push higher in game, with those i can use it fine but technically im still getting the odd shutdown ,only when i leave it idly crunching ,odd ,im reinstalling a fresh fresh wiondows , also, I have had most luck on auto settings but upping the current allowance to the memory and Soc and obviously running the memory at 1.35V , I find memory a laborious and individualistic thing to truly optimise these days(ie oc) since integrated memory controller heat is normally imho the weakest link of the effort and finding working settings can take time and a lot of testing but if i advance on these ill let you know..
the kit  is corsair VengeanceRGB 16GB ddr4 CMR16GX4M2C3000C15

Also.

i've got protocols missing on boot ,my error thing tells me(mobo bios error lcd not in event viewer), i think its because im not running in full Csm secure boot uefi mode , am i right there?


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## robot zombie (Oct 4, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> so after messing Im presently at the timings below , all other timings on auto and Tras and tRC were originally auto found , with this CH7 I am having random crashes at the minute if i push higher in game, with those i can use it fine but technically im still getting the odd shutdown ,only when i leave it idly crunching ,odd ,im reinstalling a fresh fresh wiondows , also, I have had most luck on auto settings but upping the current allowance to the memory and Soc and obviously running the memory at 1.35V , I find memory a laborious and individualistic thing to truly optimise these days(ie oc) since integrated memory controller heat is normally imho the weakest link of the effort and finding working settings can take time and a lot of testing but if i advance on these ill let you know..
> the kit  is corsair VengeanceRGB 16GB ddr4 CMR16GX4M2C3000C15


Controller temps can be a problem, but I would probably still play around with voltage. You still have some DRAM voltage to spare. It's not uncommon to hit a barrier where 1.35 isn't enough and anywhere from 1.355-1.45 becomes beneficial... ...usually at the point where timings are as tight as you can get them and speed is getting up there (seems speed increases nessesitate voltage increases more than timing decrease do, though.) Varies depending on type, but generally if you're trying to push the limits of your DDR4/mobo combination, there's a good chance you might have to pass 1.35. Really top-binned modules can do it, but you can't always expect it. You may just be hitting that point.

And again, a little goes such a long way. You're right, it's absurdly laborious... ...sometimes .005-.01v is the difference between stable and the occasional crash.

IME SOC voltage can be touchy, too. 1.1 isn't enough for my setup. 1.125 is perfect. 1.13+ and it goes to shit again. LLC can be just as important. I think of it this way... ...SOC needs a specific amount of power. So you can't run it loose and up the voltage so that it droops to the level needed, because then there will be times when it also goes just high enough to throw it off. It's not like a CPU where as long as the droop isn't too low, it'll generally work.

Reminds me, sometimes CPU voltage is a factor, too. In the past, upping it a tick has been the difference between working and not. Try it, if you can with the way you're running your CPU.

I dunno, could be a lot of things in your case, but personally if I have a config that boots and passes basic stress tests, but periodically crashes, then my next step is to see if I can't better balance the power to it. There's probably a specific scenario under which it crashes every time, while staying fine the rest of the time. This can either be a power need/delivery fluctuation or sometimes one particular timing causing it to crash during one specific operation that pops up when doing certain things. Somehow it's stumbling only under certain demands. I'd rather find out it's power first, before bumping timings tediously for nothing. Doesn't take nearly as long to rule-out.

Be interested to know if/how you get it figured out. These days I'm trying to learn as much as I can about RAM overclocking. There is much to learn from the suffering of others, so they say.



I've been playing around more with more modest overclocks on my 2600. Just wanna see how cool and quiet I can get things without taking a big performance hit. Today I managed *4ghz* at... *1.13v.* Now, I don't know if people are somehow over-volting like crazy with their overclocks or what, because I feel like every time I've read about someone trying to hit 4ghz with a 1600 or 2600, the voltage is anywhere from 1.3v to 1.4+v. 1.13v just seems insanely low. I found the instability line just below it. Low 1.12 is total lock-up on linpack... ...like before completing 1. High 1.12 is borderline... ...passes linpacks 9 times out of 10, but randomly shuts every few hours.

But it really has been completely stable at 1.13, and I don't expect it to fail, based on my experience with this particular chip. I did a couple hours of P95. 30 4gb linpacks. Another hour of RealBench. Obviously, I should do some longer tests - and I will put it through a lot of Realbench and maybe even a long stretch of small FFT's, but that it can pass thses suggests that it's likely going to continue working for me.

Maybe golden chip? I can tell you that going up every 50-100mhz past this point puts voltages closer to what you usually see, but it's still low. 1.23 for 4.1ghz. 1.29 for 4.2ghz. Those two I have already used and stressed enough to know they're completely stable. Only real explanation I see is that my sensors read low... ...but that would be scary low, wouldn't it? I'd hope not, but I can't rule it out unless I take my own readings. Imagine if it was actually .2v higher!  geez...

One thing is for sure... ...temperatures line up with the voltage. 64C for burner-type stress tests. 55C max for games, and a rare max at that. 50C is more typical. If I kept my fan curves up at where they were for 4.2ghz, I might see it go down another degree or two. Cooling setup in my specs. Standard air setup.

I might just keep it this way. Benchmark scores suffer marginally, but for my usage, I don't notice a difference at all. What I do notice is how I can't hear my fans at all. I'm not used to that. It's nice. Still performs a lot better than that stock boost, where sometimes it'll hit 3.9 under lesser loads for the faster cores and 3.8 across the board, but all cores average at 3.7 under real loads. Much bigger jump than 4ghz is to 4.2ghz, with the benefit of significantly lower power demands and great thermals.

If this pans out, maybe I'll try RAM overclocking again... ...see if running a little further from this chip's clock speed limit helps improve RAM OC stability a little bit. I have voltage headroom now to lock in stability with a slight overvolt. I can probably even lower CPU LLC and switching freqency... ...take a little noise out of the equation.


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## Vya Domus (Oct 4, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> 1.13v just seems insanely low.



It is very low, keep in mind that the actual voltage that some motherboards provide is considerably higher than what the value says. This happens even on high end motherboards, LLC can have the same effect too. Frankly it's unlikely your CPU gets just 1.13 volts in reality.


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## Flyordie (Oct 4, 2018)

Well, my F@H 24/7 clocks..

CPU-Z is reading wonky on the voltages though.. In BIOS I am giving it 1.3125V.... With the droop it drops to what you see in HWInfo.  1.294V.  (Going to try 4.1Ghz later but just inching clocks up and thats with the AIO Pump at 1200 RPM. lol. So pretty slow.  I already know it will do 4.3Ghz but trying to keep power usage to a minimum so just inching up till I get to that "wall" @ 1.3125V.


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## Johan45 (Oct 4, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> so after messing Im presently at the timings below , all other timings on auto and Tras and tRC were originally auto found , with this CH7 I am having random crashes at the minute if i push higher in game, with those i can use it fine but technically im still getting the odd shutdown ,only when i leave it idly crunching ,odd ,im reinstalling a fresh fresh wiondows , also, I have had most luck on auto settings but upping the current allowance to the memory and Soc and obviously running the memory at 1.35V , I find memory a laborious and individualistic thing to truly optimise these days(ie oc) since integrated memory controller heat is normally imho the weakest link of the effort and finding working settings can take time and a lot of testing but if i advance on these ill let you know..
> the kit  is corsair VengeanceRGB 16GB ddr4 CMR16GX4M2C3000C15
> 
> Also.
> ...


I had a set of team group with similar timings and never could get them to run stable on a CHVI that was a year ago but either way. I sold them! I still had lots of Samsung kicking around, they were just for testing. Not sure what's going on with your boot but there are two things I do that seem to alleviate a lot of random problems. Disable fast boot in BIOS and I also disable fast startup in Windows. Seems to boot much more consistently since I did that.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 4, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> I had a set of team group with similar timings and never could get them to run stable on a CHVI that was a year ago but either way. I sold them! I still had lots of Samsung kicking around, they were just for testing. Not sure what's going on with your boot but there are two things I do that seem to alleviate a lot of random problems. Disable fast boot in BIOS and I also disable fast startup in Windows. Seems to boot much more consistently since I did that.


I had similar ddr3 from Corsair for my 8350, it too was fiddly but I am ok with that, just want more time with it then i have atm.
Few late nights lately, so i reinstalled the latest win 10 release ,set memory to 2866@16,17,17,17 and it is running better, lasted the whole night and is still crunching now, i also got brave and used my old (10yrs) pciex Ocz Revox2 120 as my boot(until I get an nvme), no issues , amazing  and it is still potent compared to a samy 850 basic.
More tweaking to follow.


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## Johan45 (Oct 4, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> I had similar ddr3 from Corsair for my 8350, it too was fiddly but I am ok with that, just want more time with it then i have atm.
> Few late nights lately, so i reinstalled the latest win 10 release ,set memory to 2866@16,17,17,17 and it is running better, lasted the whole night and is still crunching now, i also got brave and used my old (10yrs) pciex Ocz Revox2 120 as my boot(until I get an nvme), no issues , amazing  and it is still potent compared to a samy 850 basic.
> More tweaking to follow.


If you think it might help you can run odd CL if you go into the memory timings section and disable "gear down", I also disable power down which is for low power mode and can cause some crashing


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 4, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> If you think it might help you can run odd CL if you go into the memory timings section and disable "gear down", I also disable power down which is for low power mode and can cause some crashing


Disable gear down, oh i enabled it ,ty i already disabled power down and I'll try that , i want tighter timings or at least stock speed or both if im lucky, I'll be having a good go this weekend.


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## Johan45 (Oct 4, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Disable gear down, oh i enabled it ,ty i already disabled power down and I'll try that , i want tighter timings or at least stock speed or both if im lucky, I'll be having a good go this weekend.



Good luck from my experience you have your work cut out for you.


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## YautjaLord (Oct 5, 2018)

Here ya go.  3.8GHz/1.4v as promised. This was fun torturing it.  jk Cheers all.


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## YautjaLord (Oct 7, 2018)

Sorry for double-post, will make it (yet again) short & simple: the issue with temps & lower R15 scores is - it takes time for TIM (EK-TIM Ectotherm) to start cooling so it jumps places til TIM starts to actually take effect & everything comes back to normal. Yeah, it sounds abnormal, but that's more or less the case. And no, i still love this monoblock.  Applied bigger/lengthier chunk of thermal pad to side VRMs (near the IO cover) just for a good measure though, plus removed (with 95% alcohol) & then re-applied the Ectotherm too (placed 1 dot now, stead of 2 two weeks or so ago, size of small or even tiny grape or 3 rice pieces ).


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 8, 2018)

So i thought I drop by and tell all how it went , I have maxed out at 2933 memory 16,18,18,18,50 auto timigs as anything higher does'nt boot and anything tighter crashes after a while in some way  got my Cbto 1222 and 164 single core @4.14 but i have now got more questions , im going to read the thread , its daunting. I have been putting it off a few days but it needs doing.

anyway two concerns my Oc is barely mine, i bumped a few settings and let it auto but its led to two concerns high core V at 1.48 max 1.42 usually, and my core temp in ryzen master reads 69 crunching max? too high??  also

now im at it corsair link shows a temp thats concerning its package?? temp ,it shows 95 , my motherboard agrees with ryzen master and nothing else calls anything package?.


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## robot zombie (Oct 8, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> anyway two concerns my Oc is barely mine, i bumped a few settings and let it auto but its led to two concerns high core V at 1.48 max 1.42 usually, and my core temp in ryzen master reads 69 crunching max? too high??


Are all cores hitting that voltage? Its definitely high but XFR will sometimes do that to a couple cores on its own. Not direly concerning but i would definitely be looking at getting that down. 1.5 is the max allowed. Most shoot to be .05 lower than that at max. Personally i would be nervous just because theres no telling if the voltage applied is even higher, yanno? 1.42 is good for a high overclock. 1.4ish is common.

69 is fine. Ryzen officially throttles at 95C and anything decently below that is good. Though my experience is that 80 or above is a problem. Maybe it wont damage anything but most people start having major stability problems past that point.



> now im at it corsair link shows a temp thats concerning its package?? temp ,it shows 95 , my motherboard agrees with ryzen master and nothing else calls anything package?.


Not sure what that is... maybe an offset. Ryzen master always displays the correct core temperature. You can trust that.

And believe me if you hit 95 for real youd know.  Ime being stupid everything tends to up and shut down right away.


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## Mussels (Oct 9, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> So i thought I drop by and tell all how it went , I have maxed out at 2933 memory 16,18,18,18,50 auto timigs as anything higher does'nt boot and anything tighter crashes after a while in some way  got my Cbto 1222 and 164 single core @4.14 but i have now got more questions , im going to read the thread , its daunting. I have been putting it off a few days but it needs doing.
> 
> anyway two concerns my Oc is barely mine, i bumped a few settings and let it auto but its led to two concerns high core V at 1.48 max 1.42 usually, and my core temp in ryzen master reads 69 crunching max? too high??  also
> 
> now im at it corsair link shows a temp thats concerning its package?? temp ,it shows 95 , my motherboard agrees with ryzen master and nothing else calls anything package?.



thats a glitch with corsair link, it cant read modern ryzen temps - you need to use corsair iCue for support with modern hardware


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## Johan45 (Oct 9, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> So i thought I drop by and tell all how it went , I have maxed out at 2933 memory 16,18,18,18,50 auto timigs as anything higher does'nt boot and anything tighter crashes after a while in some way  got my Cbto 1222 and 164 single core @4.14 but i have now got more questions , im going to read the thread , its daunting. I have been putting it off a few days but it needs doing.
> 
> anyway two concerns my Oc is barely mine, i bumped a few settings and let it auto but its led to two concerns high core V at 1.48 max 1.42 usually, and my core temp in ryzen master reads 69 crunching max? too high??  also
> 
> now im at it corsair link shows a temp thats concerning its package?? temp ,it shows 95 , my motherboard agrees with ryzen master and nothing else calls anything package?.




Your Scores,( assuming that's CB 15 @ 4.14 GHz) Are kinda low especially the multicore. At 4.0 you should be in the mid 1300s or higher and eve single is a bit low for your speed.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 9, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Your Scores,( assuming that's CB 15 @ 4.14 GHz) Are kinda low especially the multicore. At 4.0 you should be in the mid 1300s or higher and eve single is a bit low for your speed.


I think it's because its on precision boost mode and downclocks to 3.6.
I did try a manual oc with PBO switched on but it never boosts higher with a manual Oc + PBO.
Is that the way ie manual Oc or PBO but not combined?


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## Johan45 (Oct 9, 2018)

Even on a straight auto setting, you should be boosting in the 4.0 GHz range. When I reviewed this CPU I did a set of benches with the base clock set static and still scored ~1250 (3200 mem) that's what I mean by your scores being quite low. Are you sure it's boosting properly?  Is this on the H2O in your specs?

4.0 GHz


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 9, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Even on a straight auto setting, you should be boosting in the 4.0 GHz range. When I reviewed this CPU I did a set of benches with the base clock set static and still scored ~1250 (3200 mem) that's what I mean by your scores being quite low. Are you sure it's boosting properly?  Is this on the H2O in your specs?


Yeah ,lower memory then yours too, my memory is at 2933 in that test 2866 now, ill try a manual Oc run later ,see if I can get clue as to what's up.




yeah so i manually clocked it to 4 in the bios and its better, i pushed a bit further with ryzen master(1391cb 173sc) but at 85 degree max temp im chickening out for now until i get a mono block  ,and possibly more rad because i've only got the Ek coolstream 360 on this system now , with just the cpu and vega waterblocked, i like it but i get mad coil whine from my vega at high clocks or fps.
this case is nice, lian li 011 dyamic, i feel its crying out for another 360 in the roof though, especially now.


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## robot zombie (Oct 10, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Yeah ,lower memory then yours too, my memory is at 2933 in that test 2866 now, ill try a manual Oc run later ,see if I can get clue as to what's up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks about right. I'm just below that at 4ghz with my RAM running 3400 @ CL16. Probably the only reason I'm only 20 points behind.


 
Also, just for fun I pushed 43.25. Those fuckin 4 points are _killing_ me though, man! Why couldn't it _just_ give me 1500?! I didn't have the time/energy/will/daringness to try for 4.35 and fix that little problem. Eh, I could push the ram up a little and that would to it. Tomorrow I may give that a quick run.


 
I tell myself I can go higher, maybe 4.375, though I'd never get it truly stable. In fact I did try booting it, though I never tested for fear of cooking things. It booted and did basic things in W10 no problems. The 4.3 config, I was able to push through some linpacks and realbench, but on my... I think, decent air setup, temperatures get dicey. Not OMG FIRE, but definitely uhhmmmmm...

I often wonder what this Scythe cooler would do in a full size ATX case. Having only two front intakes and rear exhausts holds me back. VRM's are just as much to blame, I think. I can see the exact point where the voltage droops unusually and then it all goes to shit. All signs point to VRM's overheating. Not good. Didn't take long for me to give that shit up! I'm tellin you guys. Can't say I blame them, CPU is showing just over 200W! It honestly gave me the jitters to see that.

But really, if I wanted to ignore the fact that peak temp during those tests was 86C () I could easily run a flat 4.3. It averages closer to 80C when pushed to the max - just little 3-5 second jumps up past that. Cinebench MC maxed at an admittedly high 73C. Voltages look okay, just below 1.4v - though realistically probably a little higher. But I'd probably be looking at 70C for gaming and the various other things I do. That honestly doesn't scare me a ton because of my actual usage - I know I'd very rarely even approach 80C, but with my PC sitting right next to me in this small 10x12 room, it's a lot of noise and heat to live with. I also don't know if it would ever be truly stable, or if it would just seem to be... ...or if I'm brave/dumb enough to run prolonged stress tests at those temps. Maybe P95 blend or something not AVX-heavy.

So yeah... all around ridiculous thing to do. I can't imagine.

I can tell you this. I ran it there for a couple of hours and ran a few different stress tests (albeit briefly because of temps,) and it tossed out not one WHEA error. So that's promising. But I already know that with this chip, that temperature zone will lead to crashing all on its own over time. And again, VRMs are of major concern. I think that might be the real reason for the problems. They aren't tossing the heat like the CPU itself is. They're running away past a certain point. Sustained loads will knock it out every time. I could probably time it if I wanted to.

If my cooling was better I'd experiment some more. I think with a good custom loop it would definitely be possible to go further into this territory, but I don't wanna go there... ...with all of the expense, potential for failure, maintenance... ...nah. I may try to experiment with ways of cooling the VRM's much later on. I could put a 40mm fan up in the corner where the two VRM heatsinks meet. And then another on the bottom of the CPU VRM heatsink. Maybe even see about pushing more air across the whole mobo. I dunno, at the end of the day, the restriction of the case is the real limiting factor. It can only move so much air before it is saturated. Maybe I should try popping off the front panel and filter.

I just... I'm not ready to fry this chip/mobo yet. Maybe when Zen 2 hits 

Pretty cool to see it hit that, though. I've wanted to push 4.3ghz on air since I bought this chip. But if I'm completely honest with myself, I like it at 4ghz much better. I don't notice the performance loss at all and I pretty much never hear any fans save for my loud-ass RX 580. I was looking at my max temps after running fallout yesterday and it was 50C flat! To me, that is excellent. A good balance of performance, temperatures, and efficiency, for me. Clearly this is where my 2600 most wants to be. The 2600 is a really capable lower-upper range CPU that doesn't ask a whole lot in return. That's what it's best for, imo. For when you want something serious, but don't need to go ham on everything, for not a lot of cash. The everyman's gaming/enthusiast chip


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 10, 2018)

IF you want that 1500, there are a few tricks. Run the CB15 program with realtime priority. The bench will appear to freeze, just give it time and you'll profit. Another one is to start windows in diagnostic mode. kills all unnecessary services etc.. 
This is my 2600X maxed out


----------



## SIGSEGV (Oct 10, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> IF you want that 1500, there are a few tricks. Run the CB15 program with realtime priority. The bench will appear to freeze, just give it time and you'll profit. Another one is to start windows in diagnostic mode. kills all unnecessary services etc..
> This is my 2600X maxed out



what kind of memory do you use now?


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 10, 2018)

SIGSEGV said:


> what kind of memory do you use now?


G.Skill FlareX 3200 CL14, I have a few kits of "B" die but these sticks are a good match for Ryzen


----------



## robot zombie (Oct 10, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> IF you want that 1500, there are a few tricks. Run the CB15 program with realtime priority. The bench will appear to freeze, just give it time and you'll profit. Another one is to start windows in diagnostic mode. kills all unnecessary services etc..


Thank you very much for the tip! I will try that for sure. I guess it doesn't matter that much, it's not a very competitive score at any rate. Just kind of an OCD thing 

Also, I had to do a double take at your multiplier until I realized that's gotta be on LN2, hehe.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 10, 2018)

Have any of you had any luck with ryzen memory calc on hynix memory , i thought it had passed me gold but i crashed a few times since so it's tweak o clock.


----------



## robot zombie (Oct 11, 2018)

Didn't delve into diagnostic mode for this one. Went a different way with it 

...I just noticed looking at that screenshot... why does Cinebench think I'm running Windows 8?


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 11, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> Didn't delve into diagnostic mode for this one. Went a different way with it
> 
> ...I just noticed looking at that screenshot... why does Cinebench think I'm running Windows 8?



Same with me, leave it be.  R15 is not the only one, CPU-Z does the same with voltages, i, for example, set vCore to 1.4v, CPU-Z reports it in idle it's 1.39v. Just leave it, coding issues, or some such shit.


----------



## robot zombie (Oct 11, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> Same with me, leave it be.  R15 is not the only one, CPU-Z does the same with voltages, i, for example, set vCore to 1.4v, CPU-Z reports it in idle it's 1.39v. Just leave it, coding issues, or some such shit.


Hah yep. CPU-Z does that to me too. Though sometimes it actually shows a slightly higher voltage. 

It's like they know that people using their apps often have OCD and wish to torment us a little more than we already do ourselves. 

Up until recently this motherboard would never run the full 100mhz base clock. I know it swings around a bit, but I mean... never. Anything showing static BCLK showed 98mhz, or something like that. Drove me up a fricken wall. And to think, it only took Asus from when the X370-F came out to last month for them to get it to ever reach the full 100! Took a lot for me to not go back and forth with BCLK adjustments, trying to get the overshoot just right to have it hit 100... ...been bugging me all year.


----------



## phill (Oct 11, 2018)

Just subscribing to the thread as I've recently bought a couple 1700X for silly money new as they were on sale for my girl friend and daughters PCs, just interested to see how things have gone for Ryzen systems and such like


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 11, 2018)

@phill: Hello to new blood.  jk 'ssup & welcome. 

To all. Few pics of monoblock sitting on motherboard before & after i assembled the entire rig & before i filled it with blood red cryofuel coolant & distilled water:



Shot with Galaxy A6 cam, as usual.


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## Johan45 (Oct 11, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> Hah yep. CPU-Z does that to me too. Though sometimes it actually shows a slightly higher voltage.
> 
> It's like they know that people using their apps often have OCD and wish to torment us a little more than we already do ourselves.
> 
> Up until recently this motherboard would never run the full 100mhz base clock. I know it swings around a bit, but I mean... never. Anything showing static BCLK showed 98mhz, or something like that. Drove me up a fricken wall. And to think, it only took Asus from when the X370-F came out to last month for them to get it to ever reach the full 100! Took a lot for me to not go back and forth with BCLK adjustments, trying to get the overshoot just right to have it hit 100... ...been bugging me all year.



There's a couple of reasons for that, spread spectrum being one but the biggest is that in Win10 there is no proper timer for the BCLK so all the SW factor the BCLK speed based on an algorithm so it's not overly accurate. This is why at HWBot many of the benchmarks have to be run in Windows7, the timer issue can skew results. Yes that was LN2



theoneandonlymrk said:


> Have any of you had any luck with ryzen memory calc on hynix memory , i thought it had passed me gold but i crashed a few times since so it's tweak o clock.



From my observations, it's pretty hit and miss with Hynix, I think most of their work was done with Samsung B-die which is a lot easier to work with. I mean with patience most people with a bit of skill can tune B-die quite easily.

@YautjaLord, do you always run the RAM in those slots? Pretty sure all the boards recommend 2 and 4.


----------



## dhklopp (Oct 11, 2018)

After much twatting about I've managed to get my G Skill TridentZ 3000Mhz (15-16-16-35) 2x8GB to 3133Mhz (14, 15, 16, 28) stable.  Should I stick or twist?  Is it worth it to go for higher clocks and sacrifice some timings (Not Samsung stuff)?


----------



## phill (Oct 11, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> @phill: Hello to new blood.  jk 'ssup & welcome.
> 
> To all. Few pics of monoblock sitting on motherboard before & after i assembled the entire rig & before i filled it with blood red cryofuel coolant & distilled water:
> View attachment 108456View attachment 108457
> Shot with Galaxy A6 cam, as usual.



Thanks for the welcome   I'll have to scroll and read through the 40 + pages this thread has at some point but until I get ready to buy two motherboards and two coolers for the 1700X's, I'll sit back and read as much as I can  

Has anyone had/having any really bad things happen with their Ryzen setups at all?


----------



## Mussels (Oct 12, 2018)

closest to a bad thing i had was my MSI x370 had overheating VRM's with my 1700 at 1.4v - needed a fan on them to stop throttling


----------



## robot zombie (Oct 12, 2018)

dhklopp said:


> After much twatting about I've managed to get my G Skill TridentZ 3000Mhz (15-16-16-35) 2x8GB to 3133Mhz (14, 15, 16, 28) stable.  Should I stick or twist?  Is it worth it to go for higher clocks and sacrifice some timings (Not Samsung stuff)?


If you're just wondering whether that config is sufficient, I'd say it's not bad! You're not really handicapping yourself at that point and that's a nice gain.

Not sure what the general limits are for your RAM, but it's worth a shot. Low primaries are usually more desirable, but with Ryzen there are still benefits to be had up a little past that speed. Personally, I would try for it and put it through the paces - see what the performance difference actually is. I don't think there's a hard line where latency offsets the benefits of IF running faster. And that aside they are different aspects of system performance, with different tradeoffs. It's a matter of which improvement is more beneficial to you. I think when not taking huge hits to latency, most would sacrifice a little past where you're at to get more IF boost. I probably would.

IME performance tends to go up in synthetics when you up the RAM speed, within reason. If the latency doesn't go up more than a couple of ns per bump-up, you'll typically see improvements. AIDA64 will tell a part of that story. Secondary timings play a pretty big role, especially when you're moving up from primaries at the tighter end of what your RAM can do.

Every RAM has its places it likes to be run at. For instance, my RAM performs better @ 3466/16 than it does 3200/14. No matter how I try, the latency always winds up a little higher and the speeds significantly slower - essentially there is a wall for me @ CL14 that keeps me from tightening down everything else enough to make the compromise worth it. I think this is because the secondaries I can push at CL16 are relatively tighter. Infinity fabric benefits from the added speed and overall latency actually goes down just a tiny little bit. All in all, it performs that much better.

Strange, but true. My board/IMC has troubles with RAM overclocking, which probably explains the wonkiness there, but things like that can happen. Throw logic out the window, try different configs, measure performance. There are gonna be sweet spots - and sometimes there really is no logic to it at all.

Who knows? Maybe there's a point a little further up where you can increase speeds disproportionately more relative to the loss you have in timing tightness. Can't hurt to try. What do you have to lose but your sanity?


----------



## phill (Oct 12, 2018)

I was wondering if anyone has these motherboards with their Ryzen CPUs?

ASRock AMD Ryzen X470 Taichi Ultimate
ASUS AMD Ryzen ROG CROSSHAIR VII HERO AC WiFi
ASUS ROG AMD Ryzen CROSSHAIR VII HERO
ASRock AMD Ryzen X470 Taichi

I was curious if anyone had any good bad or indifferent experiences/opinions of the boards?


----------



## dhklopp (Oct 12, 2018)

Thanks for such a detailed response RZ.  I reckon I'll have a few beers tomorrow and mess around with some higher clocks and see how it fares up.


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 13, 2018)

I have the Hero wifi, just did this with it today, I also had the msi x470 gaming m7 ac which was a really nice board too


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## phill (Oct 13, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> I have the Hero wifi, just did this with it today, I also had the msi x470 gaming m7 ac which was a really nice board too
> 
> View attachment 108551View attachment 108552



Unfortunately there's only a like button, but man that is some crazy good scoring from a 2700X   Now if only they could run at those speeds with air cooling, Intel would have a massive fight on their hands...  Amazing


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## YautjaLord (Oct 13, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> I have the Hero wifi, just did this with it today, I also had the msi x470 gaming m7 ac which was a really nice board too
> 
> View attachment 108551View attachment 108552



Can it hit 6.0 with what i got? (EK-FB GA-AX370 Gaming monoblock)  jk Looks nuts, both the score & frequencies.

More interested in how my current (1700X) & soon-to-be-purchased 2700X fare gainst 8700K (will also buy that one, along with parts/components necessary for this rig). 8700K rig specs:
Case: HAF X;
Mobo: GA-Z370-Gaming 7;
SSD: Samsung 960 Pro;
OS: Win 10 Pro;
Rest will be from my 1700X/soon 2700X rig , RAM, PSU, graphics card, etc.... At some point will also buy EK-FB GA-Z270/Z370 Gaming monoblock for the mobo, hey - you do want be as unbiased as you can with people viewing your content, so yeah, aside from some physical differences (CPU, mobo, monoblock) rest will match between 2 rigs.  Cheers.


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 13, 2018)

That's Intel's advantage is speed. Clock for clock the Ryzen will beat the intel in many benchmarks. I ran PCM7 yesterday as well and AMD has a huge advantage because of the decrypting abilities built into it. Just too bad you need LN2 to unleash it. Even then it's limited in speed to the mid 5 GHz range where Intel in the same cooling is mid 6 GHz


----------



## Vya Domus (Oct 13, 2018)

Turns out I can hit 4 Ghz , still on just 1.35V. This sort of baffles me, I would always see people pushing upwards of 1.45-1.5 to get past 3.9.

Though I have to say I only stress test using the FPU test on AIDA64 as I find it the closest to reality in terms of load.


----------



## phill (Oct 13, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> That's Intel's advantage is speed. Clock for clock the Ryzen will beat the intel in many benchmarks. I ran PCM7 yesterday as well and AMD has a huge advantage because of the decrypting abilities built into it. Just too bad you need LN2 to unleash it. Even then it's limited in speed to the mid 5 GHz range where Intel in the same cooling is mid 6 GHz



I think the Ryzen CPU is an amazing CPU, I'm so pleased they have stepped up their game   Who do you bench for @Johan45 ?


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 13, 2018)

phill said:


> I think the Ryzen CPU is an amazing CPU, I'm so pleased they have stepped up their game   Who do you bench for @Johan45 ?



I'm a team captain at Overclockers.com, I also do all the AMD reviews



Vya Domus said:


> Turns out I can hit 4 Ghz , still on just 1.35V. This sort of baffles me, I would always see people pushing upwards of 1.45-1.5 to get past 3.9.
> 
> Though I have to say I only stress test using the FPU test on AIDA64 as I find it the closest to reality in terms of load.



Some of the newer chips were better, maybe you got lucky. Voltage requirements will rise with memory speed as well and Ryzen can be tricky to get completely stable just because of all the I/O built into the die.


----------



## phill (Oct 13, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> I'm a team captain at Overclockers.com, I also do all the AMD reviews
> 
> Some of the newer chips were better, maybe you got lucky. Voltage requirements will rise with memory speed as well and Ryzen can be tricky to get completely stable just because of all the I/O built into the die.



I used to bench for Midlifegamers   Believe some still do it like Nick and 8 Pack here and there but otherwise, I've not really kept a look out for things going on  

Some very nice scores your getting there   Do you have a favourite test to do for benching?


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 13, 2018)

I always liked PCMark5 but they have since taken points away for it. It was a tweakers dream that one. PCM7 is OK and Ryzen really kicks it on that one.  http://hwbot.org/submission/3955966_


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## phill (Oct 13, 2018)

Very nice   Had a few good scores in PC Mark 05, was one of the higher 920 D0s if I remember..  Been a while since I've been on there looking up scores.. How far up the ladder are you @Johan45 ?   Top 10?


----------



## ne6togadno (Oct 13, 2018)

phill said:


> I was wondering if anyone has these motherboards with their Ryzen CPUs?
> 
> ASRock AMD Ryzen X470 Taichi Ultimate
> ASUS AMD Ryzen ROG CROSSHAIR VII HERO AC WiFi
> ...


i dont think feature difference between taichi and ultimate worth the price difference https://www.asrock.com/mb/compare.us.asp?Models=X470 Taichi,X470 Taichi Ultimate
i've settled with taichi as debug codes and dual lan are not in my must have list
i've never looked at CH as it is a bit pricey for me but 10-12 euro difference for wifi looks reasonable if this is the only difference between  between both.


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 13, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> That's Intel's advantage is speed. Clock for clock the Ryzen will beat the intel in many benchmarks. I ran PCM7 yesterday as well and AMD has a huge advantage because of the decrypting abilities built into it. Just too bad you need LN2 to unleash it. Even then it's limited in speed to the mid 5 GHz range where Intel in the same cooling is mid 6 GHz



Further down the OC road i'm thinking of having LN2 in my life @ some point, don't take me on the word yet, though, at least not this or even large part of next year. Suffice to say i'm doing research on this stuff for now. 

To all: here's something funny, you all ready for it?  OBS, yes - OBS - as in an awesome recording app/software that is free of charge, causing the CPU-Z bench & Cinebench R15 scores to drop, cause it eats/chews up on CPU's resources quite heavily. Ran each app (CPU-Z bench & R15) with & without OBS running in background - differences quite noticeable, doesn't affect temps on the CPU when recording PRime95's Small FFTs test though.


----------



## Vya Domus (Oct 13, 2018)

I've been meaning to ask for a while, what temperatures do you all reckon are within acceptable limits ?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 13, 2018)

@Vya Domus


robot zombie said:


> Are all cores hitting that voltage? Its definitely high but XFR will sometimes do that to a couple cores on its own. Not direly concerning but i would definitely be looking at getting that down. 1.5 is the max allowed. Most shoot to be .05 lower than that at max. Personally i would be nervous just because theres no telling if the voltage applied is even higher, yanno? 1.42 is good for a high overclock. 1.4ish is common.
> 
> 69 is fine. Ryzen officially throttles at 95C and anything decently below that is good. Though my experience is that 80 or above is a problem. Maybe it wont damage anything but most people start having major stability problems past that point.
> 
> ...


To save time


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 13, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> Further down the OC road i'm thinking of having LN2 in my life @ some point, don't take me on the word yet, though, at least not this or even large part of next year. Suffice to say i'm doing research on this stuff for now.
> 
> To all: here's something funny, you all ready for it?  OBS, yes - OBS - as in an awesome recording app/software that is free of charge, causing the CPU-Z bench & Cinebench R15 scores to drop, cause it eats/chews up on CPU's resources quite heavily. Ran each app (CPU-Z bench & R15) with & without OBS running in background - differences quite noticeable, doesn't affect temps on the CPU when recording PRime95's Small FFTs test though.



Getting into LN2 is expensive with the dewar and the pot alone you're looking at ~ $800 if you can find a deal on the dewar.



phill said:


> Very nice   Had a few good scores in PC Mark 05, was one of the higher 920 D0s if I remember..  Been a while since I've been on there looking up scores.. How far up the ladder are you @Johan45 ?   Top 10?


Not top ten #3 in Canada and # 7 on the team. I know TPU has kind of folded the benching team if you're bored come on over to OCF and join our team. We can always use more talent


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 13, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Getting into LN2 is expensive with the dewar and the pot alone you're looking at ~ $800 if you can find a deal on the dewar.



Sorry for F-bomb, but *FUCK *eight hundred? Definitely not this year. Thanx regardless. Will check this site out tomorrow.  FYI: 500+ USD - that's how much i got for all parts for my future 8700K rig @ EKWB.


----------



## GoldenX (Oct 13, 2018)

You want a big ass copper vase? You pay a big ass amount of cash.


----------



## phill (Oct 13, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Getting into LN2 is expensive with the dewar and the pot alone you're looking at ~ $800 if you can find a deal on the dewar.
> 
> Not top ten #3 in Canada and # 7 on the team. I know TPU has kind of folded the benching team if you're bored come on over to OCF and join our team. We can always use more talent



https://hwbot.org/user/phill_2/

Here is me   Been a while now....


----------



## Mussels (Oct 14, 2018)

i can run 3600Mhz C18 or 3200Mhz C14

Everyone goes on about ryzens sweet spot as 3200 C14, so that decisions been made


----------



## Flyordie (Oct 14, 2018)

The RAM sticks I got.  Running 3200 @ the below timings. 4 sticks.







Some things I will be mentioning... GSkill support- 

They literally refuse to give out any information on their products. 

I just asked for their timings used on either their 2933 Flare X kits. OR their 3200 kits. I'd have set it all manually and gone forward from there.  Nope. Won't do it. lol.

So to 1USMUS, your calculator will be getting an honorable mention in the review.  If you need help testing it on Threadripper Gen 1, lmk.


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 14, 2018)

phill said:


> https://hwbot.org/user/phill_2/
> 
> Here is me   Been a while now....



I see it has, it's like riding a bike phill



YautjaLord said:


> Sorry for F-bomb, but *FUCK *eight hundred? Definitely not this year. Thanx regardless. Will check this site out tomorrow.  FYI: 500+ USD - that's how much i got for all parts for my future 8700K rig @ EKWB.





GoldenX said:


> You want a big ass copper vase? You pay a big ass amount of cash.



Like I said the pot is the least of the expense. ~ 300 USD
The dewar, on the other hand, you really want to find used. https://www.amazon.ca/Worthington-D...id=1539528527&sr=8-18&keywords=nitrogen+dewar

I got lucky and picked up a bunch of gear from someone who was retiring. So in total cost ~ $700 CDN for a CPU/GPU pot, dewar and some odds and ends like a temp reader


----------



## phill (Oct 14, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> I see it has, it's like riding a bike phill



I'm not so interested in it now if I'm honest..  I'm more for collecting hardware that's special to me for a collection more than anything   I've got back into gaming so the tweaking/benchmarking really helped when it came to the overclocking side of things, allows you to make one decent gaming rig 

I'll keep an eye out on you tho


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 14, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> I see it has, it's like riding a bike phill
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That thing over there in link you gave will cost one big or 2-3 small salaries for me, like I said, i'm in no rush this & next year, maybe end of next year i'll think about going for it. Here's something funny stead:










This guy is funny, it's mental basically.  You look for something specific, next you find something the other side of a Interwebz sewer.  jk Cheers. Sorry for OT.

P.S. Googled for dewars, found all bunch of them, all looked great, also i actually wanted to show someone making all-copper LN2 pot & aluminum CPU bracket for it, but found this vid stead, sorry.


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 14, 2018)

That's awesome and he's right. I was a bit leery when I first started using this stuff ut now I'll do it in sandals. The worst is actually when it gets on clothing since it holds it in the fabric and gets seriously cold really quick.


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 15, 2018)

Someone said though (the YT channel named The Modern Rogue) that combination of dry ice + few gallons of alcohol sticks to your skin & leave real f*ckin' nasty burn marks on your skin pretty quick, this combination cools down though real good + it not evaporates like liquid nitrogen. The wonders of _just doing research _on this LN2/dry ice/etc... cooling stuff!

I'm off to GTX 1070 G1 OC'ing, +85MHz on core/GPU, +130MHz on VRAM, core voltage - 0% (Pascal does it automatically if i'm correct), no custom fan curve just manually set the fan speed to 70%, highest temp is 52 degrees C in Heaven 4.0. CPU - 3.8GHz, 1.4v vCore, 1.0v SoC, LLCs (CPU & SoC) - High. 3DMark Time Spy & Fire Strike, AvP D3D11 benchmark & AvP game, Carmageddon: Reincarnation (still not quite optimized as Carmageddon: Max Damage), Unigine Heaven, Valley & Superposition benchmarks - so far all of these stable with this graphics card OC. Use the 1080p High preset in Superposition, gets me a 9351 score with these clocks.  Working on stabilizing all of this stuff before i upload complete vid to my YT channel.

Sorry for OT, just an FYI where i'm at right now with all this OC stuff. Cheers.


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 15, 2018)

Between Dry Ice and LN2, I'd pick LN2 every day. For starters the temp difference is amazing. -70° compared to -180°C . That difference in temps causes other issues with condensation as well. Being slightly warmer condensate forms closer to the "heart" of things and is more likely to cause damage in my experience. LN2 is so cold that everything close to the middle is frozen solid. Frost doesn't cause the problems that water does with electricity. The cost is comparable here for the products, still need the copper pot it's just the dewar. Preparation is the same as well which can be time-consuming if you want to keep the board in "retail" shape. If it's a dedicated motherboard and resale isn't an issue then it's full LET and no worries about water.


----------



## phill (Oct 15, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Between Dry Ice and LN2, I'd pick LN2 every day. For starters the temp difference is amazing. -70° compared to -180°C . That difference in temps causes other issues with condensation as well. Being slightly warmer condensate forms closer to the "heart" of things and is more likely to cause damage in my experience. LN2 is so cold that everything close to the middle is frozen solid. Frost doesn't cause the problems that water does with electricity. The cost is comparable here for the products, still need the copper pot it's just the dewar. Preparation is the same as well which can be time-consuming if you want to keep the board in "retail" shape. If it's a dedicated motherboard and resale isn't an issue then it's full LET and no worries about water.



My main advice for people benching like that, have one to use and one to abuse..  That way if the abused one dies, you're not as worried about it if it ever does die because your good one is always there and you've not lost a PC for that thing called sods law...


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 15, 2018)

Edited my prev post, 52 C in Heaven 4.0, not 62.

@Johan45: Hence why the "just doing research", you can call me newb with all this LN2 stuff, it will not happen in this & large amount of next years, maybe by end of 2019 i'll only _think _about doing it. I saw some guys from Israel pulled something similar & posted their score in HWBot few years ago though if i'm not mistaken, so it gives me hope loner like me can pull it off too.


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 15, 2018)

For sure never rush it. That's when things go off the rails. As phill said, expect to lose HW, doesn't happen often but it can happen. My first dry ice experiment went way foul, lost 2 CPUs and a motherboard that day


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 16, 2018)

Slight deviation, but it still runs on 1700X @ 3.8GHz (benchmark even adds the "actual" to it, warms my heart ), achieved with +95MHz core/GPU, +170MHz VRAM, fan speed - still @ 70%. All of the benchmarks & 1 game test (Carma: R ) run stable, no throttling/hick ups in gameplay with all these CPU & graphics card's clocks, so consider it my Zen garden so far.  jk AvP D3D11 benchmark is @ 230.7fps 1080p - 8 years to this game & benchmark & still runs & looks solid, that's how you code the game. Cheers.

P.S. CPU-Z:




Known fact that if you OC 1700X & non-X, it's basically like free upgrade to slightly beyond 1800X levels on your hands, but i digress.  And no, JayzTwoCents didn't coined the "but i digress" phrase, so no "copyright strike" on me whatsoever.  jk 

@Johan45 @phill: We all start from somewhere & loose some or most HW parts along the way, plus that's always the deal when one starts basically anything anew. Thanx for a tip guys.  Cheers.


----------



## phill (Oct 16, 2018)

I've been fairly lucky so far if I'm honest, but I've not lost anything through overclocking or even extreme overclocking.  I've lent people hardware and it's died but that's never been their fault either   Just one of the weak ones in the batch they've made 

Still, been lucky but also been careful   No point risking hardware if you don't need to


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 16, 2018)

Mussels said:


> closest to a bad thing i had was my MSI x370 had overheating VRM's with my 1700 at 1.4v - needed a fan on them to stop throttling


Thin form-factor heat-sinks would work well too.


----------



## SIGSEGV (Oct 18, 2018)

CMK16GX4M2B3000C15, Vengeance LPX, XMP
the XMP profile doesn't work well with ASUS x470 ROG Strix (DOCP profile loosening the XMP timing from C15 to C16) but somehow I managed to OC and stable at 3266 without changing any DOCP profile.


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 18, 2018)

@SIGSEGV: I envy you having the 2700X, but otherwise - nice clocks on CPU & RAM. GIGABYTE BTW does have XMP 2.0 option, just click & forget. Strangely it also have DOCP pre-configured profiles too, but i resorted to XMP & - poof, voodoo magic - it works.  jk 

Corsair's webpage for these modules doesn't mention if it's dual-rank Hynix modules or single-rank Samsung b-Die modules. If it's Hynix - that's impressive, if Samsung - still quite impressive.


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 18, 2018)

Looks good, I would put money on some type of hynix. I have also discovered a newer breed of Samsung, still "B" but not the same stuff that is the gold standard.  https://www.overclockers.com/adata-xpg-spectrix-d40-ddr4-3000-review/


----------



## SIGSEGV (Oct 18, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> @SIGSEGV: I envy you having the 2700X, but otherwise - nice clocks on CPU & RAM. GIGABYTE BTW does have XMP 2.0 option, just click & forget. Strangely it also have DOCP pre-configured profiles too, but i resorted to XMP & - poof, voodoo magic - it works.  jk
> 
> Corsair's webpage for these modules doesn't mention if it's dual-rank Hynix modules or single-rank Samsung b-Die modules. If it's Hynix - that's impressive, if Samsung - still quite impressive.



it's dual-rank Hynix modules





confirmed. hyundai electronics is well-known as hynix


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 20, 2018)

I recently got a good deal on a 1950X and ROG Zenith. I thought.... Ended up having to RMA the board so this has taken a while. Finally, got it set up and working last night but still need to find a better cooling solution for it. was hitting mid-eighties on these benches


----------



## phill (Oct 20, 2018)

Got to love those 1950X's for sheer grunt   Nice one on getting the CPU!!


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 20, 2018)

phill said:


> Got to love those 1950X's for sheer grunt   Nice one on getting the CPU!!


Thanks phill, had wanted one since release but always out of my range. Ater TR2 release I found the combo for less than half the original price and still cheaper than buying the CPU alone when they were on sale so I couldn't resist. Now ust need to master the heat this thing puts out


----------



## phill (Oct 20, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Thanks phill, had wanted one since release but always out of my range. Ater TR2 release I found the combo for less than half the original price and still cheaper than buying the CPU alone when they were on sale so I couldn't resist. Now ust need to master the heat this thing puts out



Well for 24/7 I bet that'll be water or sub ambient..  Lets just go with LN2!!  

I'm a massive fan of AMD and I really can't wait to get the two 1700X's I have here for my girl friend and daughter Isabelle up and running   They have no need whatsoever for 16 thread CPUs let alone the 1080 Ti's I've got for them   I just need to decide on the motherboards for them and I'll be well away  
I am really looking and hoping to be able to afford a Threadripper at some point  

What sort of cooling are you using at the moment?


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 20, 2018)

It's an EK Predator 360 XLC no proper mounting for TR4 have it working but feel it's not working like it should. It covers most of the die but not sure it's getting the pressure it should have.
As for boards, I really liked the MSI X470 compared to the Giga. For serious(LN2) I use the CHVII since it's already set up for that. I found the memory try it on MSI to work very well but didn't have any HYnix to test. In a lot of my reading people seem to have good luck with Asorock but I have no experience with them.


----------



## phill (Oct 20, 2018)

It's not running on a PWM header or anything like that is it?  Sometimes that's been a bit of a pain, as its not pushing it around much or if the fans are only going around at a bare minimum speed...??  

The two boards I'll be buying are just for air cooling so I'll just get the best I can for them, I was tempted by the Asrock Tacihi boards...  The Ultimate one looked amazing as it's got 10Gb network ports in it, which is just what I'm hoping to get eventually for all the PC's in the house   Plus being AM4 boards, I can swap around CPUs if needed so if they release a monster 8 core CPU around the 5Ghz mark, can throw one of them in there and off we go


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 20, 2018)

It's not a PWM/speed problem. The CLC gets direct power


----------



## phill (Oct 20, 2018)

Fan speed or anything like that?


----------



## GoldenX (Oct 20, 2018)

New bios for my board, only added support for the Athlon, and put all subtimmings in lists so it doesn't fill the entire screen.


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 21, 2018)

@Johan45: For a moment thought, "wait, what about those LN2s with HWBot all over them?", then realized it's wallpaper on your desktop. 

I need tools & gear like this in my life, even for a brief moment:








Looks nuts, i don't think i have friends that have that kind of equipment in Israel.


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 25, 2018)

Made some progress with the 1950X, mem is up to 3466 CL15 and 3.9 on the core at 1.3V in BIOS. Temps still need to be improved. Also stretched the legs on an RX Vega 64 I picked up recently.


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 26, 2018)

Did some testing with Win7, installed fine on an NVMe with my previously prepped media for AM4. Have also bumped the speed to 4.0 @ 1.35V really need to address the cooling though.


----------



## SIGSEGV (Oct 26, 2018)

what is the safe voltage DRAM for Ryzen ? is it 1.4?


----------



## GoldenX (Oct 26, 2018)

It seems to be 1.5v, but that's for the controller, not for the RAM itself.


----------



## SIGSEGV (Oct 26, 2018)

Ripjaws 32Gb 3200 CL14 @1.35v, the XMP profile is running well but I have to adjust the DRAM voltage to 1.39v to run CL14 @3400 stable and also loosening the tRC from 14 to 15


----------



## GoldenX (Oct 26, 2018)

At high RAM frequencies you may be running at tRC 16, odds numbers are ignored.
What SoC voltage are you using?


----------



## SIGSEGV (Oct 26, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> At high RAM frequencies you may be running at tRC 16, odds numbers are ignored.
> What SoC voltage are you using?



I set SoC voltage to AUTO, 1.15 or 1.16v. Do i have to set SoC manually? I heard that max safe voltage for SoC is around 1.30


----------



## GoldenX (Oct 27, 2018)

It is, but you get higher temperatures for nothing, and anyway, nothing higher than 1.15v is necessary.


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 27, 2018)

SIGSEGV said:


> I set SoC voltage to AUTO, 1.15 or 1.16v. Do i have to set SoC manually? I heard that max safe voltage for SoC is around 1.30



You might be too high, even at 3466 I use 1.05 or less depending on CPU/platform



GoldenX said:


> At high RAM frequencies you may be running at tRC 16, odds numbers are ignored.
> What SoC voltage are you using?



Check my last post with the pics 3466 CL15. It's the gear down setting in BIOS which will let you run odd CL over 2933


----------



## robot zombie (Oct 27, 2018)

SIGSEGV said:


> I set SoC voltage to AUTO, 1.15 or 1.16v. Do i have to set SoC manually? I heard that max safe voltage for SoC is around 1.30


1.3 seems high to me. Realistically I think the killzone is probably pretty high. If you wanted to bench there I'm sure it'd be okay, but the AMD recommendation is 1.2. I'm sure they're factoring in all sorts of margins and scenarios there, but still. I wouldn't venture north of there, personally. Little reason to.

Like GoldenX said, just not worth it. If your config is stable, there's no benefit. And if you find yourself going much over 1.2 to begin with, something else is probably wrong. Most people fall ~1.1 when really pushing it up, though some get lucky and run a little lower. They have their sweet spots they like. Sometimes you think maybe you'll up it a tick or two while you tighten something down and then wind up fooling yourself into thinking the timings are bad when really the SOC is too high and it's causing the controller to misbehave. No different than DRAM voltage. More isn't always better and quite often it only means more heat/strain. If it posts, don't mess with it too much. Minor tweaks up and down from there if there are little hiccups. If that's the fix at all, small adjustments will be all it ever takes. Go too far out of the radius either way and you can get thrown off track. There's much more to stability with these things then just straight voltage. The way they behave electrically gets pretty complicated.

1.15 is high to me, but still reasonable. You may actually be able to bring it down manually and lower CPU temps. At least a little bit.


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 27, 2018)

Setting SOC too high can cause issues too


----------



## SIGSEGV (Oct 27, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> You might be too high, even at 3466 I use 1.05 or less depending on CPU/platform
> 
> 
> 
> Check my last post with the pics 3466 CL15. It's the gear down setting in BIOS which will let you run odd CL over 2933



my Ripjaws memory CL14 3200 can run perfectly stable at 3400 without changing the timing but I have to adjust the dram voltage to 1.395





robot zombie said:


> 1.3 seems high to me. Realistically I think the killzone is probably pretty high. If you wanted to bench there I'm sure it'd be okay, but the AMD recommendation is 1.2. I'm sure they're factoring in all sorts of margins and scenarios there, but still. I wouldn't venture north of there, personally. Little reason to.
> 
> Like GoldenX said, just not worth it. If your config is stable, there's no benefit. And if you find yourself going much over 1.2 to begin with, something else is probably wrong. Most people fall ~1.1 when really pushing it up, though some get lucky and run a little lower. They have their sweet spots they like. Sometimes you think maybe you'll up it a tick or two while you tighten something down and then wind up fooling yourself into thinking the timings are bad when really the SOC is too high and it's causing the controller to misbehave. No different than DRAM voltage. More isn't always better and quite often it only means more heat/strain. If it posts, don't mess with it too much. Minor tweaks up and down from there if there are little hiccups. If that's the fix at all, small adjustments will be all it ever takes. Go too far out of the radius either way and you can get thrown off track. There's much more to stability with these things then just straight voltage. The way they behave electrically gets pretty complicated.
> 
> 1.15 is high to me, but still reasonable. You may actually be able to bring it down manually and lower CPU temps. At least a little bit.





I set SoC voltage with offset mode -0.0625v but I will try to lower a lil bit later, maybe -0.0725v


----------



## HTC (Oct 27, 2018)

Perhaps someone can provide assistance:

bought myself a 2600X but i'm unable to get past error E6 my board (Taichi X370) gives, meaning i can't enter BIOS. Put back the 1600 and can use the PC no prob, but i can't update the BIOS because instant flash doesn't recognize any of the BIOSes and downloading + placing them in a pen doesn't work either 

Any suggestions?


----------



## SIGSEGV (Oct 27, 2018)

HTC said:


> Perhaps someone can provide assistance:
> 
> bought myself a 2600X but i'm unable to get past error E6 my board (Taichi X370) gives, meaning i can't enter BIOS. Put back the 1600 and can use the PC no prob, but i can't update the BIOS because instant flash doesn't recognize any of the BIOSes and downloading + placing them in a pen doesn't work either
> 
> Any suggestions?



have you tried to update bios?


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 27, 2018)

Yo definitely need to update the BIOS with the 1600 in the board. Make sure the pen drive is formatted in FAT32. Pretty sure the Asrock boards will update over the internet as well from the tools section in BIOS. Not my preference but if you have to


----------



## HTC (Oct 27, 2018)

SIGSEGV said:


> have you tried to update bios?



Ofc: BIOS doesn't recognize any version (current is 3.20). Tried downloading all of them and placing them in a pen and it still doesn't recognize any of them 

Also, and unrelated: anyone ever heard of a powered off PSU (via button) having energy spikes? When i was 1st placing the 2600X, the board's power kicked in and immediately powered off. Wasn't the PSU's button supposed to kill all power to PSU and board?



Johan45 said:


> Yo definitely need to update the BIOS with the 1600 in the board. Make sure the pen drive is formatted in FAT32. Pretty sure the Asrock boards will update over the internet as well from the tools section in BIOS. Not my preference but if you have to



Can't: reason described just above.

Haven't tried via Windows because ... i don't use Windows ...


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 27, 2018)

They're a few


HTC said:


> Ofc: BIOS doesn't recognize any version (current is 3.20). Tried downloading all of them and placing them in a pen and it still doesn't recognize any of them
> 
> Also, and unrelated: anyone ever heard of a powered off PSU (via button) having energy spikes? When i was 1st placing the 2600X, the board's power kicked in and immediately powered off. Wasn't the PSU's button supposed to kill all power to PSU and board?
> 
> ...


 They're are a few asrock motherboard with very similar names are you sure you're getting the right bios , try a reflash of the same bios, just to check the flash soft recognise it, you can read the bios and check then cancel the actual flash process at the are you sure check.


----------



## IceShroom (Oct 27, 2018)

HTC said:


> Ofc: BIOS doesn't recognize any version (current is 3.20). Tried downloading all of them and placing them in a pen and it still doesn't recognize any of them
> 
> Also, and unrelated: anyone ever heard of a powered off PSU (via button) having energy spikes? When i was 1st placing the 2600X, the board's power kicked in and immediately powered off. Wasn't the PSU's button supposed to kill all power to PSU and board?
> 
> ...


First you need update to  *bridge BIOS(UEFI)*, for X370 Tachi is 3.30(make sure though). Then you can update newer BIOS(UEFI) version.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 27, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> It seems to be 1.5v, but that's for the controller, not for the RAM itself.


This is what I've found as well. I tend to keep it 1.4v at most unless an extreme OC is desired from my clients and then only with liquid cooling.


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 27, 2018)

I gotta admit, even though the whole assembly & draining/re-filling thing can get frustrating, it is, i still want to get into all this watercoling stuff, i'm thinking about buying full-cover GPU block from EK for my GX 1070 G1, i have a feeling +95MHz on core/GPU, +190MHz on VRAM is even though impressive to some, is not really that impressive for me. I also wanna see how EK's Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut (liquid metal TIM?) cools my 1700X.


----------



## GoldenX (Oct 27, 2018)

I would love to have an ITX build with a custom WC just for kicks and lulz.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 27, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> I gotta admit, even though the whole assembly & draining/re-filling thing can get frustrating, it is, i still want to get into all this watercoling stuff, i'm thinking about buying full-cover GPU block from EK for my GX 1070 G1, i have a feeling +95MHz on core/GPU, +190MHz on VRAM is even though impressive to some, is not really that impressive for me. I also wanna see how EK's Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut (liquid metal TIM?) cools my 1700X.


I think it's a pain but once done, it's right for ages and the messings half the fun ,Do it you know you want to.


----------



## HTC (Oct 28, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> They're a few
> 
> They're are a few asrock motherboard with very similar names are you sure you're getting the right bios , try a reflash of the same bios, just to check the flash soft recognise it, you can read the bios and check then cancel the actual flash process at the are you sure check.





IceShroom said:


> First you need update to  *bridge BIOS(UEFI)*, for X370 Tachi is 3.30(make sure though). Then you can update newer BIOS(UEFI) version.



Can't, dudes: *board doesn't see any BIOS*.

I'm using this page: http://www.asrock.com/MB/AMD/X370 Taichi/index.us.asp#BIOS

I would update it but the board, somehow, refuses to recognize it


----------



## ne6togadno (Oct 28, 2018)

tried method 2?
http://www.asrock.com/support/BIOSIG.asp?cat=BIOS8


----------



## HTC (Oct 28, 2018)

ne6togadno said:


> tried method 2?
> http://www.asrock.com/support/BIOSIG.asp?cat=BIOS8



I had, five times already IIRC.

Apparently, there's a new saying: the sixth time works ...

Dunno why it didn't work previously but i've successfully installed version 3.30 and then 4.80 after that. Haven't yet installed the 2600X, though.

Thanks all that contributed with the suggestions presented.


----------



## btarunr (Oct 28, 2018)

Hello there.







Will be pairing this with MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon and Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4-3000 32GB (2x 16 GB), which I'll probably squeeze 2666 MHz out of keeping in mind dual-rank limitations of Ryzen IMC. I'll stick to Wraith Max for the winter.


----------



## HTC (Oct 28, 2018)

btarunr said:


> Hello there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Will you also add the CPU or just the coffee mug?

Btw: which Ryzen 7, if i may ask?


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 28, 2018)

God-dangit bta, you ninja-posted me, is that it how it's called in this day & age?  Got it, next up - pair it with my mobo & cooling system & get it to 4.3 or even 4.4GHz stable. Just need to wait for Thermal Grizzly Hydronaut to arrive. Pics:




Rock'n'roll mother*cker, so much awesomeness overload it's not even funny, but i digress.  And no, despite the cooler/HSF is all LED RGB-y n stuff, i'll just keep it for lolz, this one goes straight up under my monoblock.


----------



## GoldenX (Oct 28, 2018)

In a CPU limited escenario, the jump from 3100 to 3900 is huge.
I should try and see if I can reach over 4Ghz with more than 1,45v.


----------



## btarunr (Oct 28, 2018)

HTC said:


> Will you also add the CPU or just the coffee mug?
> 
> Btw: which Ryzen 7, if i may ask?



2700X. You can tell from the Wraith Prism RGB graphic on the box. 2700 non-X has a Wraith Spire without the RGB ring.


----------



## SIGSEGV (Oct 28, 2018)

I cannot lower DRAM voltage less than 1.39v but I managed to lower SoC voltage to -0.0725v (1.01 or something)


----------



## HTC (Oct 28, 2018)

btarunr said:


> 2700X. You can tell from the Wraith Prism RGB graphic on the box. 2700 non-X has a Wraith Spire without the RGB ring.



I'm not familiar with the stock cooler, tbh. Tried reading the box but the letters are too blurred and couldn't.

I'm planning to give this CPU (the 1600) to my sister but 1st i need to make sure i can install Windows 7 on it, (which i couldn't last time and why i ended up deciding to ditching Windows altogether and move to Linux). Now that AM4 platform as a whole is more stable, i'll give it another try, but i won't go back on my word: will *NOT* be installing Windows on my PC as a main OS *EVER AGAIN*.

If it all works, i'll buy her some DDR4, a cheap video card (an RX550 should suffice) and a cheap B450 board but i'll need to ask for another AM4 install kit from Noctua, unless the NH-C12 is not supported (this cooler is even older then mine), but i still have the stock heatsink the 1600 came with + the stock cooler this 2600X as well to fall back on: just need to make "a mental note" to NOT use the original paste (in the case of the 2600X's cooler). Her PC is using a 7850K APU, atm.


----------



## Flyordie (Oct 29, 2018)

Are these timings OK for 3000Mhz? lol. I may get 3200Mhz out of it now that I have gotten it somewhat stable on the CPU side.





Command Rate is 1T.
CURRENT SPECS-
1900X @ 4,015Mhz @ 1.3325V
4x8GB DDR4-3000 @ 3,000 @ 1.35V (F4-3000C14Q-32GTZR which I got new shipped for $380 from Newegg.. (yes, its B-Die..) 
SoC Voltage is 1.15V

I've been fighting for stability for a while now with this RAM kit. So far, its holding OK though since I boosted VCore up a bit more.

btw- cdawall... In case you peruse this forum area, I may pickup one of your 460s for F@H. lol. (I just wanna try multi-GPU folding to see how it'll work out on this board.. ) My folding at home stats here..


----------



## ratirt (Oct 29, 2018)

HI Everyone.
I joined the club with my Ryzen 2700x  Video card is next.


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 29, 2018)

Just asking: Prime95 Small FFTs 2h, CPU-Z bench, Cinebench R15 & Handbrake encoding (you name for how long or which size) tests will suffice for 1st Ryzen 7 2700X video review? 4.3/4.4GHz will be my goal.  Cheers.

P.S. Will probably add Hebrew and/or Russian subtitles, or actually do 1 review in 3 languages.


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 29, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> Just asking: Prime95 Small FFTs 2h, CPU-Z bench, Cinebench R15 & Handbrake encoding (you name for how long or which size) tests will suffice for 1st Ryzen 7 2700X video review? 4.3/4.4GHz will be my goal.  Cheers.
> 
> P.S. Will probably add Hebrew and/or Russian subtitles, or actually do 1 review in 3 languages.


My method is in place small FFT 128 for ~ 2 hours the custom blend at ~ 75% of RAM for a couple hours, while blend is running I star unigine heaven on a loop windowed to include the GPU in the final 2 hours good overall testing for the system and temperature control.

@HTC the easiest way to get Win7 working on one of these systems is to download the MSI tool for it. It will add in the USB etc drivers for Ryzen and NVMe if you want on your current media. It'll put it on a USB or create an ISO. It's by far the easier choice over doing it yourself


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 29, 2018)

@Johan45: Will do, but with exception of Heaven - this one will be reserved for gaming &/or synthetic benchmarks (3Dmark, DOOM, etc.....). FYI: on my last run with 1700X @ 3.8GHz HWInfo64 showed the actual CPU temps (tDie) reaching 72 degrees tops with Small FFTs (2h run), for 100% CPU utilization all cores/threads this is still cools down impressively, i hope 2700X even @ 4.3GHz will be a bit more impressive as well. Cheers.


----------



## btarunr (Oct 29, 2018)

Board and Memory

 



Will be interesting to tame those on a Ryzen. ^^


----------



## SIGSEGV (Oct 29, 2018)

btarunr said:


> Board and Memory
> 
> Will be interesting to tame those on a Ryzen. ^^



does msi pro carbon x470 motherboard has a CPU/SoC offset voltage feature?
is that corsair LPX memory?


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 29, 2018)

@btarunr: Will you do the video review?  And whether if you will or will not, want me to compare your results gainst mine in - say - R15 (stability test), DOOM (gaming test) & 3DMark Fire Strike/Time Spy (synthetic)? I can also throw in Unigine Superposition into the mix. Cheers.


----------



## HTC (Oct 29, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> My method is in place small FFT 128 for ~ 2 hours the custom blend at ~ 75% of RAM for a couple hours, while blend is running I star unigine heaven on a loop windowed to include the GPU in the final 2 hours good overall testing for the system and temperature control.
> 
> @HTC the easiest way to get Win7 working on one of these systems is to *download the MSI tool for it.* It will add in the USB etc drivers for Ryzen and NVMe if you want on your current media. It'll put it on a USB or create an ISO. It's by far the easier choice over doing it yourself



What tool?

My board is an AsRock Taichi X370: will the tool work with this board?


----------



## Johan45 (Oct 29, 2018)

HTC said:


> What tool?
> 
> My board is an AsRock Taichi X370: will the tool work with this board?


It's called MSI smart tool, wouldn't be surprised if ASrock has one too just not familiar with them. Here's a link to the DL from MSI support site  http://download.msi.com/uti_exe/Smart_Tool_1.0.0.36.zip
All you need is some type of Win7 media and this will slip the drivers in for you.


----------



## btarunr (Oct 30, 2018)

SIGSEGV said:


> does msi pro carbon x470 motherboard has a CPU/SoC offset voltage feature?
> is that corsair LPX memory?



Oh yes LPX, not Pro. These modules are notoriously bad with Ryzens, so it will be fun taming them. I'll take a lot of help from Ryzen DRAM Calculator.


----------



## Arrakis9 (Oct 30, 2018)

I finally figured out how to overcome the max voltage slider on this stupid gigabyte board. Now I can feed my cpu 1.45v and see how high it actually clocks. You have to change the VID value in the pstate overclocking to 10 or 11 and it over rides the boards safety setting letting you apply more than 0.2v (yeah really, the slider only goes up 0.2v!)


----------



## ratirt (Oct 30, 2018)

Well I got the 2700x like a week ago. I wonder if you guys experienced something like myself. My CPU fan stopped spinning. It's an wraith Prism. LED's are on but no spinning. Wonder if it's a common failure or I'm such a lucky dude


----------



## Mayclore (Oct 30, 2018)

I'm waiting for 7nm now, just sticking with my super-comfy 1600X until then.


----------



## TRIPTEX_CAN (Oct 30, 2018)

Might as well join the club.  Got my 2700x 2 weeks ago.  Running all cores at 4200mhz with a relatively low (?) 1.313v

I'll push it more when I get better cooling but for now I'll stress this and then if its really fully stable (more than 2h BF stable) I'll see if I can lower the vcore further and keep 4200Mhz.


----------



## SIGSEGV (Oct 30, 2018)

ratirt said:


> Well I got the 2700x like a week ago. I wonder if you guys experienced something like myself. My CPU fan stopped spinning. It's an wraith Prism. LED's are on but no spinning. Wonder if it's a common failure or I'm such a lucky dude



have you already checked the bios (fan monitoring especially the cpu one)?


----------



## ratirt (Oct 31, 2018)

SIGSEGV said:


> have you already checked the bios (fan monitoring especially the cpu one)?


I tried everything in bios. all possible configurations and nothing. Tried to connect the CPU fan to a different fan socket (system) but no luck. The thing is it was working fine. Then suddenly stopped.

BTW. in the FAN CPU monitoring tool i tried to go with the full fan speed or something like that but it wasn't spinnig. I've started the RMA process already.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 31, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> Thin form-factor heat-sinks would work well too.



it had heatsinks on them - they still ran really hot. unless you ran a radial cooler that blew air that way, you were screwed

2700x runs so much cooler/lower wattage in comparison, no cooling is even needed on the VRMs


----------



## YautjaLord (Nov 1, 2018)

One final question: if i'll add AIDA64 FPU torture test to the test suite in my vid will it suffice? Along with Prime95 Small FFTs, CPU-Z, etc... The "heroes" of review is monoblock + R7 2700X rather than just 2700X. Lots of reviews about 2700X are in YT, i thought of slight deviation from this subject rather than making yet another 2700X generic review.


----------



## Johan45 (Nov 1, 2018)

What you add depends on what you're trying to get across. What is the intent of the video, OC/stability?


----------



## YautjaLord (Nov 1, 2018)

Yeah, cooling & more of a review of the monoblock (EK-FB GA-AX370 Gaming) + 2700X, rather then just 2700X, how high one can OC under this specific LCS & be stable. Might also use this pic in the video:




Comparison between current (1700X) @ 3.8GHz & 2700X @ 4.3GHz, review will be in 2 or 3 languages if asked nicely  (English, Hebrew, Russian). Basically every review will be in 2 or 3 languages, but i digress. 

P.S. It will be Part 1 of planned 3.



Spoiler



8700K vs 2700X comes in Part 3, 8700K will be cooled down by this


----------



## Dbiggs9 (Nov 1, 2018)

New Ryzen build what do you guys think? Im looking for something small. i would like the 2700X but it's 105W vs 65W

Case : https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA8EF7N23771


----------



## Mussels (Nov 1, 2018)

get the X and ignore the higher wattage - mine barely sips at the power, thats just a higher rating for the all core turbo


----------



## Dbiggs9 (Nov 1, 2018)

Should i buy new ram? I have 2x8 2400 15-15-15-39 1.2v


----------



## Mussels (Nov 1, 2018)

dont buy ram til you've tried to OC it on the 2700(x) - i've had generic 2133 run at 2800 with no issues for example


----------



## dhklopp (Nov 1, 2018)

That's me done with this chip and RAM.  Cannot get it near 4.1 without a wipeout.  It'll do me though, gotta have plenty of resources in reserve when browsing


----------



## SIGSEGV (Nov 1, 2018)

is it true that Malaysia batch processor is not good?  I have 2 of 2600X (my friend rig), one comes from China batch and the other one comes from Malaysia.  I don't have any problem to undervolt  2600X that comes from China with -0.1300v but I cannot lower voltage another one (always hang/BSOD even with -0.050v).  Thus, the temperature of the Malaysia batch is worse than China batch (runs hot).


----------



## YautjaLord (Nov 2, 2018)

Got it installed, change in sys specs comes in few more hours from now (in a bar right now ) + some screenie for comparison sake.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 2, 2018)

So I am wondering if any of you have tried a gigabyte aurus ddr4 kit 2x8 b dies out??

Just because I'm getting one tomorrow.


----------



## YautjaLord (Nov 3, 2018)

First it pooped out 1658cb, 2nd run - this thingy. Takes time for this monoblock to cool this beast of a CPU down, but - yeah...... From 1658cb to this, either 174cb spike or real 2700X score. You decide, me like this & prev scores regardless. Looking for 2700X OC guide this weekend (tomorrow) & upcoming week. Goddangit, this CPU is a beast.  Cheers.

@theoneandonlymrk: Flare X for me, but i might ask people in PC stores near me if they have those. Good luck. Them Gigabytes love to exaggerate with all this LED RGB stuff though, aren't they?  Cheers. These, right?

P.S. TIM - Thermal Grizzly Hydronaut.
P.P.S. Got me 1872cb @ 4.2GHz/1.35v vCore. CPU LLC - Extreme, SoC LLC/voltage - Auto.


----------



## GLD (Nov 3, 2018)

I have a 65w 2600 and now a 105w 2700X Ryzen. The 2600 is a keeper, but I want to get the 2700X to run like the vanilla 2700 at 65w or so. That is my mission.


----------



## GoldenX (Nov 3, 2018)

GLD said:


> I have a 65w 2600 and now a 105w 2700X Ryzen. The 2600 is a keeper, but I want to get the 2700X to run like the vanilla 2700 at 65w or so. That is my mission.


Undervolt the hell out of it.
I remember being forced to undervolt a Phenom II 980BE because my PSU was not enough. It did pretty well.


----------



## SIGSEGV (Nov 3, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> P.P.S. Got me 1872cb @ 4.2GHz/1.35v vCore. CPU LLC - Extreme, SoC LLC/voltage - Auto.



that's great oc you have mate
I found it very hard to make this beast stable with all cores at 4.3Ghz even with 1.42v on VCore.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 3, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> View attachment 109790
> First it pooped out 1658cb, 2nd run - this thingy. Takes time for this monoblock to cool this beast of a CPU down, but - yeah...... From 1658cb to this, either 174cb spike or real 2700X score. You decide, me like this & prev scores regardless. Looking for 2700X OC guide this weekend (tomorrow) & upcoming week. Goddangit, this CPU is a beast.  Cheers.
> 
> @theoneandonlymrk: Flare X for me, but i might ask people in PC stores near me if they have those. Good luck. Them Gigabytes love to exaggerate with all this LED RGB stuff though, aren't they?  Cheers. These, right?
> ...


Quick early results on the gigabyte memory , It works fine first time using the xmp memory profile at 3200, I have tested for stability and my cpu is definitely running cooler too ,only a bit 2-4° under load, that load being 90% core use crunching , all on auto asus clock settings for now since I need a base point before memory tweaking.
Only issue is the rgb function is stuck on colour waterfall and gigabyte software isn't working,i usually just pulse red, got bad case of rgb blues though it's kinda mentally soothing, odd, might be new tech bromance ,but i like it when something works on auto.
I'll try and get them higher soon, also cas! 16,18,18? ,It works for now.


----------



## YautjaLord (Nov 3, 2018)

First good news on this OC: even though i used the X470 tutorial, it worked just fine on my rig (X370), basically it says in tutorial that max vCore voltage & LLC should be 1.30v (vCore voltage required for 4.2GHz, mine @ 1.35) & Turbo for LLC respectively (mine is @ Extreme). Every other voltage, with an exception of RAM voltage (1.35v) is at Auto. Cinebench R15 score is @ these settings.

Now, the bad news: apparently it's too much for Prime95 Small FFTs test (no custom run for now), it stopped prematurely @ 30mins & peaked @ 77 degrees C on tDie. So basically i'm saying that it'll take some time before i'll upload the vid, y'know?  I believe this thing can reach 4.3GHz manually & work @ that frequency stable, just need to do a bit more thorough research on this thing. If anyone of you have suggestions how to deal with this, i won't mind that you'll elaborate on it.  Cheers.


----------



## Johan45 (Nov 5, 2018)

I would back the LLC down a bit, these CPUs are designed to run with some droop. I also wouldn't worry too much about that 1.3V cap. Not sure where that came from but you're going to need some more volts to pass that OC. So two choices, slow it down or give it more powa!


----------



## HTC (Nov 5, 2018)

Does anyone have an underclock guide for AM4 platform? It's been quite a while since i last OCed and that was with an Llano APU but this time i'd like to go the opposite route and UC instead: not trying to find the biggest UC or any of the sort: just looking for a relatively mild UC while not losing the benefits of the chip clocking down when it's in Idle.

The plan is to UC the chip while keeping the RAM @ 3200 CL16.

I believe it requires messing with the PStates but i really have no knowledge about that: if someone would be so kind as to point me in the right direction, i'd appreciate it.


----------



## Johan45 (Nov 5, 2018)

HTC said:


> Does anyone have an underclock guide for AM4 platform? It's been quite a while since i last OCed and that was with an Llano APU but this time i'd like to go the opposite route and UC instead: not trying to find the biggest UC or any of the sort: just looking for a relatively mild UC while not losing the benefits of the chip clocking down when it's in Idle.
> 
> The plan is to UC the chip while keeping the RAM @ 3200 CL16.
> 
> I believe it requires messing with the PStates but i really have no knowledge about that: if someone would be so kind as to point me in the right direction, i'd appreciate it.


What are you trying to accomplish? More power savings? These CPUs don't use a lot of power as it is.
Yes P-States would be the way to go and then use a negative offset for voltage. Or just disable the core boost and adjust voltage with offsets


----------



## btarunr (Nov 5, 2018)

Hi2u from the new Ryzen build!
















When trying to cut the police-grade zip-tie holding the bunch of fixed PSU cables together with scissors, I accidentally cut one of the 24-pin cable's wires. I just braided the wire and sealed with insular tape. Hope it holds under stress.






Turns out it did. The very first POST was gut-wrenchingly long (like 20 seconds). I thought I screwed up with the PSU cable, and maybe even fried the board. But then the "press F1 for setup" screen greeted me.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 5, 2018)

btarunr said:


> Hi2u from the new Ryzen build!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looking good, any work done on it or gaming, interested in your first Impressions.


I have been working on my memory clocks, best i can do is 3400 C15,17,17,17,17,38,56 at1.4v.

I have noticed something worth mentioning too.

Ram start up voltage in my motherboard power supply bios settings, it is best to also set it to your desired ram Volts or it (i assume) boots lower than that and if like me your pushing odd or new clocks and timings.(im thinking this could also have limited my prior memory clocking attempts).

Before doing this i had no luck at all with timings and not much with clocks.

Now it's tweaking easier, upto fail point ,which is still a pain.

It's running better , benching better now.

And also cold boots better, this platform has been crsp for cold booting high memory clocks upto last night now it's fine.

I run it 24/7 so cold boots were not really a issue for me tbf.


----------



## Johan45 (Nov 5, 2018)

Yes VDIMM boot needs to be set most of the time. Can't count on auto


----------



## YautjaLord (Nov 5, 2018)

btarunr said:


> Hi2u from the new Ryzen build!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



God, you are a moderator bta, i thought you'd go full-blown liquid cooling with this rig!  jk

Looks neat, congrats with new rig.  Cheers.

P.S. That "i accidentally cut one of the 24-pin cable wires" story though, definitely nerve wrecking.


----------



## GoldenX (Nov 5, 2018)

How good is the biggest Wraith?


----------



## Johan45 (Nov 6, 2018)

The prism with the 2700X is plenty for stock and will give you a 4.1-2 ish all core OC


----------



## Norton (Nov 6, 2018)

Posts deleted/warning issued- Return to topic or more points will be issued


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 6, 2018)

To be fair that was proper random, and nothing to do with the thread afaik.

Is the guy doing ryzen calc still about i have a question.

Whats bottom bin samsung b-die about, is that what I think or the normal type?

I made this discovery in typhoon, it actually says that.


----------



## HTC (Nov 6, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> What are you trying to accomplish? More power savings? These CPUs don't use a lot of power as it is.
> *Yes P-States would be the way to go and then use a negative offset for voltage. Or just disable the core boost and adjust voltage with offsets*



I was thinking along the lines of 200 MHz less from base clock but i forgot to mention i'd need to undervolt as well.

Dunno how to do this (underlined).


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 6, 2018)

HTC said:


> I was thinking along the lines of 200 MHz less from base clock but i forgot to mention i'd need to undervolt as well.
> 
> Dunno how to do this (underlined).


So to start with you can set the cpu core voltage from auto to offset, it should open a plus minus select option and value tab ,set it as you would , leave the value on auto initially then start at 0.1v or less.
I personally would leave the clock and disable the auto PBO boost option , see how low you can take base clock out n volts.
Can't think why you would though I have mine OCD but can calm it to 2.2ghz solid via power save mode in Windows ten.

I know where p states are but can't recommend something i have not tried.


----------



## btarunr (Nov 6, 2018)

Quick question. The idle clocks seldom go below 3.00 GHz, and never below 2.20 GHz. Is this normal? What's the resting idle clock for a 2700X? For my i7-4770K it was 0.8 GHz.

I've already tried adjusting minimum processor state to "5%" in Windows Power settings for the "Ryzen Balanced" profile.



YautjaLord said:


> God, you are a moderator bta, i thought you'd go full-blown liquid cooling with this rig!  jk
> 
> Looks neat, congrats with new rig.  Cheers.
> 
> P.S. That "i accidentally cut one of the 24-pin cable wires" story though, definitely nerve wrecking.



I'll stick to this Wraith through the winter. The cable is able to handle Linpack.


----------



## GoldenX (Nov 6, 2018)

btarunr said:


> Quick question. The idle clocks seldom go below 3.00 GHz, and never below 2.20 GHz. Is this normal? What's the resting idle clock for a 2700X? For my i7-4770K it was 0.8 GHz.
> 
> I've already tried adjusting minimum processor state to "5%" in Windows Power settings for the "Ryzen Balanced" profile.
> 
> ...


I have something near 1400 for idle, but only when using a 0% minimum on the power plan. Anyway, official word by AMD is that you can leave both limits at 100% and the CPU will idle regardless, the OS will inform full speed all the time. Apparently the CPU is much faster switching clocks when the OS doesn't interfere.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 6, 2018)

looks like changing away from MSI was a mistake in my case then


----------



## biffzinker (Nov 6, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> Apparently the CPU is much faster switching clocks when the OS doesn't interfere.


I gave up on the balanced power profile with my past Ivy Bridge, Haswell CPU's and I still switch to the high performance profile on Ryzen. 

@btarunr
I wouldn't be to concerned with your Ryzen idling at 3.0 GHz.


----------



## btarunr (Nov 6, 2018)

Mussels said:


> looks like changing away from MSI was a mistake in my case then



I think over the past two generations, MSI has been on top of the CPU VRM game for both AMD and Intel platforms: Best components, sanest designs, best VRM heatsinks, good BIOS-based control, etc. ASUS is deteriorating (probably why elmor became unhappy), and Gigabyte is garbage. ASRock is as good as MSI, but needs to improve its BIOS.


----------



## YautjaLord (Nov 6, 2018)

Quick one from me. With OBS running in a background (not recording anything, just _running _in a background ) R15 gave me 1653cb, without - 1853cb. Set affinity/priority in Task manager for this one? It's 200cb difference there.

@btarunr: What do you mean GB is garbage? I have GB mobo & graphics card, yes sometimes it (mobo) behaves quirky n shit, but overall i love basically everything from that firm/company, heck some techies @ YT actually used it in their reviews (i won't give the names tho ). Facts & numbers bta, pretty please.


----------



## Johan45 (Nov 6, 2018)

btarunr said:


> Quick question. The idle clocks seldom go below 3.00 GHz, and never below 2.20 GHz. Is this normal? What's the resting idle clock for a 2700X? For my i7-4770K it was 0.8 GHz.
> 
> I've already tried adjusting minimum processor state to "5%" in Windows Power settings for the "Ryzen Balanced" profile.
> 
> I'll stick to this Wraith through the winter. The cable is able to handle Linpack.


Just use Windows balanced, Ryzen is no longer necessary. Downvolting and clocking I have seen can change with BIOS version(AGESA) I'm on an older BIOS with 2600X/CHVI and it idles quite low clock and volts. Can't remember off hand the exact numbers but lower than 2200 for sure


btarunr said:


> I think over the past two generations, MSI has been on top of the CPU VRM game for both AMD and Intel platforms: Best components, sanest designs, best VRM heatsinks, good BIOS-based control, etc. ASUS is deteriorating (probably why elmor became unhappy), and Gigabyte is garbage. ASRock is as good as MSI, but needs to improve its BIOS.



I have to disagree with the last Gen AMD boards, the only reliable boards were the Sabertooth and CHVz, ASrock and MSI were burning up not literally but their VRM were an issue and Gigabyte was very hit and miss usaully just throttled really depended on which "revision" of the board you had.



YautjaLord said:


> Quick one from me. With OBS running in a background (not recording anything, just _running _in a background ) R15 gave me 1653cb, without - 1853cb. Set affinity/priority in Task manager for this one? It's 200cb difference there.
> 
> @btarunr: What do you mean GB is garbage? I have GB mobo & graphics card, yes sometimes it (mobo) behaves quirky n shit, but overall i love basically everything from that firm/company, heck some techies @ YT actually used it in their reviews (i won't give the names tho ). Facts & numbers bta, pretty please.


I haven't used ASrock this time around so can't comment but I would choose MSI or ASUS over Gigabyte, no offense, but their BIOS leaves room for improvement especially mem section. I'm really disappointed when they can't populate current timings in BIOS so you have an idea where to start


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (Nov 6, 2018)

btarunr said:


> Gigabyte is garbage


What? I'm sorry but that's rubbish, I've found my gigabyte boards take a dumb on my msi ones, not to mention the poor quality of the z170m mortar which vdrooped with a 6600k.


----------



## Johan45 (Nov 6, 2018)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> What? I'm sorry but that's rubbish, I've found my gigabyte boards take a dumb on my msi ones, not to mention the poor quality of the z170m mortar which vdrooped with a 6600k.


My only Intel experience with Gigabyte to date was an X99 SOC Champion and honestly, it was the hardest board I ever used. Took them at least 6 months to iron out the BIOS so that I could actually use the 133 strap for my memory. And Again, I can't stand their BIOS setup


----------



## btarunr (Nov 6, 2018)

Zen 2 will be big. Brand new front-end and 256-bit FPUs. 

https://www.techpowerup.com/249281/...cture-and-radeon-instinct-mi60-at-new-horizon


----------



## R0H1T (Nov 6, 2018)

Slightly glad that I waited for it, pcie 4.0 & better vector performance now only if DRAM prices weren't


----------



## Johan45 (Nov 6, 2018)

btarunr said:


> Zen 2 will be big. Brand new front-end and 256-bit FPUs.
> 
> https://www.techpowerup.com/249281/...cture-and-radeon-instinct-mi60-at-new-horizon


That's the kind of stuff I like to hear. Looks like a major overhaul from the original Zen core


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (Nov 6, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> That's the kind of stuff I like to hear. Looks like a major overhaul from the original Zen core


Agreed! The more competition the better, especially with that 28 core stunt and the 9900k pricing joke.


----------



## robot zombie (Nov 6, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> To be fair that was proper random, and nothing to do with the thread afaik.
> 
> Is the guy doing ryzen calc still about i have a question.
> 
> ...


Hmm, it actually indicates? Ive always figured ive had the lesser... its a weird one... 3600 CL 17 where the good ones for that speed are usually flat 16 or even 15. 

Mine is simply specified as Samsung b-die. I thought the only way to know upper/lower was by timings.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 6, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> Hmm, it actually indicates? Ive always figured ive had the lesser... its a weird one... 3600 CL 17 where the good ones for that speed are usually flat 16 or even 15.
> 
> Mine is simply specified as Samsung b-die. I thought the only way to know upper/lower was by timings.


I am not too worried , I am at 3400 C15 it's just I had no luck at 3600 but I will try again after the 1.0.0.6 agesa update hits this crosshair hero 7, i should have gotten an asrock or gigabyte tut.
Plus I think I had start up memory voltage set low last time I tried because I settled on messing with 3400 for ages.

Also watching the rome preview, as Adored said 64 core 128 thread with 9 chips.

Means zen two is still 8 core.


----------



## Johan45 (Nov 6, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> Hmm, it actually indicates? Ive always figured ive had the lesser... its a weird one... 3600 CL 17 where the good ones for that speed are usually flat 16 or even 15.
> 
> Mine is simply specified as Samsung b-die. I thought the only way to know upper/lower was by timings.



There is a different type of B-die out there and I'm not sure it could be confused with the "good" B-Die. https://www.overclockers.com/adata-xpg-spectrix-d40-ddr4-3000-review/


> As you can see in the photo below, this is indeed Samsung “B” die with a part number of K4A8G085WB-BCRC. This a variant I haven’t seen or worked with in the past. The timings and speed aren’t the same as the fast “B” die, for lack of a better term, as well as the last four digits of the part code are slightly different as the “fast” RAM IC is labeled # K4A8G085WB-BCPB these are found in high-speed DDR4 RAM kits.





theoneandonlymrk said:


> I am not too worried , I am at 3400 C15 it's just I had no luck at 3600 but I will try again after the 1.0.0.6 agesa update hits this crosshair hero 7, i should have gotten an asrock or gigabyte tut.
> Plus I think I had start up memory voltage set low last time I tried because I settled on messing with 3400 for ages.
> 
> Also watching the rome preview, as Adored said 64 core 128 thread with 9 chips.
> ...


3600 for Ryzen isn't easy to master, especially stable. For 24/7 I don't bother the gains are not worth the effort to me. I'm running at 3333

@btarunr

This is set on Windows balanced Idle and load it actually drops to 0.6 V but I guess I missed it. Added one more This is the first release BIOS for pinnacle dated 4/19 different board though I run CHVI


----------



## _JP_ (Nov 8, 2018)

btarunr said:


> Hello there.


Hi.





btarunr said:


> Quick question. The idle clocks seldom go below 3.00 GHz, and never below 2.20 GHz. Is this normal? What's the resting idle clock for a 2700X? For my i7-4770K it was 0.8 GHz.
> 
> I've already tried adjusting minimum processor state to "5%" in Windows Power settings for the "Ryzen Balanced" profile.


It has to do with thresholds the CPU has to hit in load (%) for the OS to order a power step above/below.
Depending on the power mode, these are more aggressive towards either low or higher clocks, the balanced profile maintaining it close to base clock for the usual load, spiking to turbos as needed.
This is set in the registry.

Now, since Bulldozer that the High Performance profile was the most efficient, voltage regulation is not handled by the OS, but keeping it away from parking (C6) meant that there was little delay in resource allocation. This being significant for games, mostly. Still, at the time, it was not efficient enough for the bulldozer modules, so that's why we got a Windows update.
The Ryzen power profile is nothing more than the "performance update for bulldozer" Microsoft released, again with custom adjustments by AMD, this time for...Ryzen. (of course the update had some other under the hood tweaks, but I think this was the most significant)
You can still customize it, if you really want to, but why bother...going by my meter, I'm idling at 150W full system, with the CPU clocks @ 2.5~2.7GHz. That's really good and it gets cold enough for the CPU fan to pretty much stop!  (it's almost winter here, hence)


----------



## YautjaLord (Nov 9, 2018)

@theoneandonlymrk: No GB Aorus RAM in Israel so far, not that i didn't search for it. How it compares to - say - Flare X? I think i gonna order these, not for all RGB stuff, but actually to compare to mine.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 9, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> @theoneandonlymrk: No GB Aorus RAM in Israel so far, not that i didn't search for it. How it compares to - say - Flare X? I think i gonna order these, not for all RGB stuff, but actually to compare to mine.


I would guess flare X would clock better, the Rgb on these does not play nice with my asus motherboard either and is stuck in rainbow cascade or something, I'm not bothered too much but worth mentioning.


----------



## Johan45 (Nov 9, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> I would guess flare X would clock better, the Rgb on these does not play nice with my asus motherboard either and is stuck in rainbow cascade or something, I'm not bothered too much but worth mentioning.


Does it not get along with the Aura SW from ASUS?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 9, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Does it not get along with the Aura SW from ASUS?


No I've had no luck with gigabytes own software either.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 9, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> and is stuck in rainbow cascade or something


I believe you can turn it off or unplug the RGB.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 9, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> I believe you can turn it off or unplug the RGB.


No switch to adjust or wire to remove, its ok i quite like the omnicron crystal look.


----------



## Vya Domus (Nov 9, 2018)

btarunr said:


> Oh yes LPX, not Pro. These modules are notoriously bad with Ryzens



Wish you good luck, I managed absolutely nothing above 2400 with my kit.



btarunr said:


> Quick question. The idle clocks seldom go below 3.00 GHz, and never below 2.20 GHz.



Don't know what's up with the clocks either. My 1700X clearly seems to idle just fine as the temperature goes down to ~25C and so does the power consumption and voltages, however no program seems to properly read the clocks as they all report that I am at 4000mhz constantly.


----------



## Johan45 (Nov 9, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> Wish you good luck, I managed absolutely nothing above 2400 with my kit.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know what's up with the clocks either. My 1700X clearly seems to idle just fine as the temperature goes down to ~25C and so does the power consumption and voltages, however no program seems to properly read the clocks as they all report that I am at 4000mhz constantly.


Like I posted earlier a lot of that is dependant on BIOS and which AGESA is used. 
I assume you checked the Windows settings


----------



## Vya Domus (Nov 9, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> I assume you checked the Windows settings



Which settings ? You mean the power plan ? That has always been left on balanced, anyway like I said the idle states do work properly it's just that the clocks aren't displayed properly.


----------



## Johan45 (Nov 9, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> Which settings ? You mean the power plan ? That has always been left on balanced, anyway like I said the idle states do work properly it's just that the clocks aren't displayed properly.


Or there's just no load which will bring the temps/power usage down


----------



## Vya Domus (Nov 9, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Or there's just no load which will bring the temps/power usage down



Unlikely since the voltage does drop.


----------



## YautjaLord (Nov 9, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> I would guess flare X would clock better, the Rgb on these does not play nice with my asus motherboard either and is stuck in rainbow cascade or something, I'm not bothered too much but worth mentioning.



It would only work with GB mobos cause of all that GB's RGB Fusion stuff. 

Flare X was stable @ 3333MHz, froze @ 3400MHz on mine, but i also had 2700X @ 4.2Ghz. I'm still working on getting 4.3GHz on CPU/3466MHz on RAM running stable when testing those with Cinebench R15 & Prime95/AIDA64 FPU tests.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 9, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> It would only work with GB mobos cause of all that GB's RGB Fusion stuff.
> 
> Flare X was stable @ 3333MHz, froze @ 3400MHz on mine, but i also had 2700X @ 4.2Ghz. I'm still working on getting 4.3GHz on CPU/3466MHz on RAM running stable when testing those with Cinebench R15 & Prime95/AIDA64 FPU tests.


I found a few comments on forum's saying gigabyte had added support in a update but I think your right.


----------



## robot zombie (Nov 10, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> There is a different type of B-die out there and I'm not sure it could be confused with the "good" B-Die. https://www.overclockers.com/adata-xpg-spectrix-d40-ddr4-3000-review/


Yeah, I saw that earlier. I don't think mine is remotely the same. That's a really different creature. I think what we're seeing now is yes, the actual DRAM chips on the sticks are legit b-die, but the controllers vary quite a lot in quality.

The way I see it, there seems to be a small range of controllers from tighter to more relaxed, but within this set, all will do 3200 CL14. I see it best represented at 3600 in the CL15, CL16, and CL17 sets. All b-die with similar controllers that will actually run a lot of the same profiles, though subtimings get looser as you go. They all give the performance associated with b-die. Mine will still do the fabled 3200 CL14 easily. Works great at ~1.35v and under 1v SoC. But it likes slightly more relaxed timings to do higher speeds, even though it will still do them. Even among classic b-die there is a fair bit of variance. Not all b-die is necessarily good for overclocking, but these are the ones people are always talking about.

And then there are a few out there that use completely different controllers. It almost doesn't seem right to call them b-die. But maybe that's where we all have steered each other wrong. We missed an important distinction. It's like... ...you can buy a car with a nice engine but if the transmission sucks then... ...just because car A has the same engine as car B doesn't make it able to put the same power down. And similarly, just because you buy a pair of sticks known to be b-die doesn't magically make them all-around HQ RAM. It just means they have high quality DRAM chips tacked on the PCB. Maybe there was more of it floating around than we've been lead to believe. Or maybe manufacturers, realizing that people were seeking out b-die and actually checking, started tacking on inferior controllers and charging the same price to cash in on the obsession, just based on availability.

And then there are the crazy high speed ones that actually have pretty crummy IC's tacked on... dunno if I'd put those in the same class, either.


I'm pretty sure with the calc, the V1 and V2 profiles are for the 2 originally most common controllers. Could be wrong. Just makes sense to me. Too bad it's not that simple anymore. Maybe it never was.


Sometimes I wonder how much of a role my mobo plays in my case. I don't have some important settings. And something just messing around tells me I'm missing something with this board. It's just not a great memory OCer. Probably a little bit of both for me. Oh well. At least I got 3200 CL14 going.

Shame, really. I still feel like it shouldn't take all of this just to find RAM that works how you want it to. It's not silicon lottery. It's more like a silicon easter egg hunt. Obnoxious to know that what you want is out there, but you just can't find it. Nerve wracking to pull the trigger on expensive RAM only to find it's not what you hoped it was.


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## Johan45 (Nov 10, 2018)

Call me a fan boy but I have always had good luck with G.Skill. The pics I posted earlier are a 3600 CL17-18-18 kit @ 3333, I also have some 4266 which is a bit better binned, flare X, and etc.. they all seem to behave similarly on Ryzen. I also have a quad kit of 3600 corsair that runs surprisingly well on TR. I haven't noticed this "different" type yet I guess


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 10, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Call me a fan boy but I have always had good luck with G.Skill. The pics I posted earlier are a 3600 CL17-18-18 kit @ 3333, I also have some 4266 which is a bit better binned, flare X, and etc.. they all seem to behave similarly on Ryzen. I also have a quad kit of 3600 corsair that runs surprisingly well on TR. I haven't noticed this "different" type yet I guess


I think you pay for what you get largely ,Gskill do have good binning and memory tuning skills, a fact i will remember ,next time.


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## YautjaLord (Nov 10, 2018)

Didn't change my R15 score though & actually (true story) was a tad (10 or 20cb) lower for some f**ked up reason than with stock 3200Mhz frequency*.  Still scores above i7 4770K in single-threaded R15 score. Does it's job fine, no quirks & shit, rock solid, plus aesthetically pleasing, has a Predator 2 left arm gauntlet of sorts appearance to it. (Yeah i know, i am a massive Predator & Predator 2 geek & i think i proved it. )

*Frequency was 3333Mhz, voltage - 1.35v. Lower but still stable R15 score.


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## robot zombie (Nov 10, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Call me a fan boy but I have always had good luck with G.Skill. The pics I posted earlier are a 3600 CL17-18-18 kit @ 3333,


Hah! Probably the same kit I got, or very similar. TridentZ RGB 3600 17-18-18. I've been playing around with 3333 on it myself, with some promising results. It's a great kit. Just really doesn't do higher speeds well. Does a pretty tight 3200 CL14, though. I'm with you on G.Skill. They're the go-to right now and even the b-die with lesser timings specced OC great.

But I think those belong to the "true" b-die set. High quality chips on high quality PCB's with good designs and good components. I don't think the same can be said for all b-die out there. It's just like any other part you buy. Core components are important but the whole design matters too. Think of the variance in SSD's with the same memory... ...or especially the difference there can be between two different video cards with the same GPU under the cooler. The difference with RAM is that it's often not as easy to know unless you really do your homework.

But then, mobo compatibility is all over the place, too. That too can be hard to shop for. There's not much that says "this mobo is a good RAM OC'er." Makes things even more complicated.

Big ole pandoras box of "not all things are created equal," imo. Though I think generally if it's confirmed b-die, the timings are in line, and the manufacturer has it together, you're still safe.

I think the truest thing anyone can say about it is that it's a complicated situation with a lot of things being unseen on the consumer end and like mrk said, you get what you pay for. My one hope going forward is better compatibility/performance and a little more "Ryzen-specific" stuff. AMD removing some limiting factors and RAM manufacturers hashing things out more on their end. It's one of those things where we probably don't even need better hardware to get better performance. It just needs to be set up to work together better. Lotta ground to cover there.



Johan45 said:


> I also have some 4266 which is a bit better binned, flare X, and etc.. they all seem to behave similarly on Ryzen. I also have a quad kit of 3600 corsair that runs surprisingly well on TR. I haven't noticed this "different" type yet I guess


I sometimes wonder if the real limitations are elsewhere than the RAM's spec. Like up to a certain point it doesn't matter what it's rated for because you're gonna hit a wall with the CPU/mobo before the RAM even gets close to the limits of what it can do. Maybe that's why it doesn't always matter what you get and why "worse" RAM often performs close to or just as well as "better" RAM. Hence, "as long as it's b-die."


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 11, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Call me a fan boy but I have always had good luck with G.Skill. The pics I posted earlier are a 3600 CL17-18-18 kit @ 3333, I also have some 4266 which is a bit better binned, flare X, and etc.. they all seem to behave similarly on Ryzen. I also have a quad kit of 3600 corsair that runs surprisingly well on TR. I haven't noticed this "different" type yet I guess


I wouldn't call that being a fanboy. You like a company because you have had consistently good experiences with their products.


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## Johan45 (Nov 11, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> Hah! Probably the same kit I got, or very similar. TridentZ RGB 3600 17-18-18. I've been playing around with 3333 on it myself, with some promising results. It's a great kit. Just really doesn't do higher speeds well. Does a pretty tight 3200 CL14, though. I'm with you on G.Skill. They're the go-to right now and even the b-die with lesser timings specced OC great.
> 
> But I think those belong to the "true" b-die set. High quality chips on high quality PCB's with good designs and good components. I don't think the same can be said for all b-die out there. It's just like any other part you buy. Core components are important but the whole design matters too. Think of the variance in SSD's with the same memory... ...or especially the difference there can be between two different video cards with the same GPU under the cooler. The difference with RAM is that it's often not as easy to know unless you really do your homework.
> 
> ...


Here's my timings if you're interested and shows the memory model number as I do think it's the same. 1.37V in BIOS


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 11, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> 1.37V in BIOS


Is it just me or does that seem a bit high?


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## Johan45 (Nov 11, 2018)

That's DRAM voltage, stock is 1.35V


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## robot zombie (Nov 11, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Here's my timings if you're interested and shows the memory model number as I do think it's the same. 1.37V in BIOS


Yep, model numbers match  Thanks for the timings man, I'll play with them next time I sit down with it.



lexluthermiester said:


> Is it just me or does that seem a bit high?


Yes and no. JEDEC says 1.2. But XMP specs 1.35 for most "factory" overclocks. A lot of DDR4 will run that way out of the box. So not too far off. 1.35 is what most significant, but reachable overclocks ask for. I'd say 1.4v is still reasonable, if not starting to get up there. Many people go much higher. And it seems like DDR4 can take it. The general consensus is that DDR4 can actually take some pretty insane-looking overvolts if you really wanna push the speed. I believe the max for XMP 2.0 cert is 1.5v. Gotta be something to that.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 11, 2018)

Well im presently back at 3200,16,17,17,17,17(,38,56) with the best bandwidth I've yet got ,i use maxmemm2 though so I dunno it's reliably shown.

But i put in brackets my main two unlowerable settings, any lower and i get boot loops or corrupt os issues put it back it boots.

Scratch this whole post started crashing 3dnark


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## btarunr (Nov 12, 2018)

Zen 2 IPC is 29% higher than Zen1. Whatcha gonna do Intel?

https://www.techpowerup.com/249450/amd-zen-2-ipc-29-percent-higher-than-zen


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## ne6togadno (Nov 12, 2018)

btarunr said:


> Zen 2 IPC is 29% higher than Zen1. Whatcha gonna do Intel?
> 
> https://www.techpowerup.com/249450/amd-zen-2-ipc-29-percent-higher-than-zen


Raja will demo their dGPU with zen2 based system


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## robot zombie (Nov 12, 2018)

btarunr said:


> Zen 2 IPC is 29% higher than Zen1. Whatcha gonna do Intel?
> 
> https://www.techpowerup.com/249450/amd-zen-2-ipc-29-percent-higher-than-zen


Im cautiously optimistic. Waiting to see actual performance numbers.

I got a 2600 w/ second hand x370 because I knew if Zen 2 flopped I'd still be happy with what I already had. OC it and live my life, enjoying what the savings afforded me elsewhere.

On the flipside I held back on the 2700x because if Zen 2 was super amazeballz I would feel silly upgrading but I'd still want to


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## witkazy (Nov 15, 2018)

My "I'm 50 and i don't give a damn anymore " rig ,mainly on ubuntu kernel 4.19 plus "windows to go" for some games


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## Johan45 (Nov 15, 2018)

The 2400G is a decent APU for the price


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## infrared (Nov 15, 2018)

Well, something odd happened, I wasn't getting any display output on my main rig and ended up swapping out gpus/cpus/motherboards, which was a royal pita considering the custom loop. Anyway, I don't actually know wtf happened, my crosshair booted first try on a test bench, with the same configuration that didn't work while it was assembled into the case. Who knows.. 

BUT, what I thought some of you might be amused by.. My main rig now has an Asus Prime B350 in it (£80!!), and is _almost _able to match the X370 board. 1800X is still at 4.1GHz @ 1.425v, and ram at 3333mhz 14-14-14-28-44 1T. In fact it's so close in performance that I can't be bothered to swap the boards back over again. I'm curious as to how long this board will last though, the VRM gets pretty hot under load (~150W), unsurprisingly. The only things I miss are the lack of water temp sensor and P-states.

I'll put the decent board back in when I have my hands on a Zen2


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## Johan45 (Nov 15, 2018)

infrared said:


> Well, something odd happened, I wasn't getting any display output on my main rig and ended up swapping out gpus/cpus/motherboards, which was a royal pita considering the custom loop. Anyway, I don't actually know wtf happened, my crosshair booted first try on a test bench, with the same configuration that didn't work while it was assembled into the case. Who knows..
> 
> BUT, what I thought some of you might be amused by.. My main rig now has an Asus Prime B350 in it (£80!!), and is _almost _able to match the X370 board. 1800X is still at 4.1GHz @ 1.425v, and ram at 3333mhz 14-14-14-28-44 1T. In fact it's so close in performance that I can't be bothered to swap the boards back over again. I'm curious as to how long this board will last though, the VRM gets pretty hot under load (~150W), unsurprisingly. The only things I miss are the lack of water temp sensor and P-states.
> 
> I'll put the decent board back in when I have my hands on a Zen2


I was having something similar where the system would not show GPU output until it got to windows. In the even you had a bad boot and it was trying to go to BIOS then you wouldn't have any output on the screen. I thought I had a serious issue at first until I figured out it was on the BIOS screen just hit F10>enter blindly and it booted to Windows with my settings. What I did to prevent this was disable fast startup in Windows and fast boot in BIOS. Haven't seen it again since. At the time I thought it had something to do with a Windows update which can reset the startup setting on you.


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## infrared (Nov 15, 2018)

Interesting, I think we probably had the same issue from what you described, although hitting F10>enter didn't work for me, but perhaps it was waiting for me to hit F1 after a failed post. The post code thing was showing 24 which is what I'd expect when it's booted into an OS, pretty weird. I'll disable fast startup/boot as you suggest, cheers


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## Kursah (Nov 15, 2018)

Hoping to join the club this weekend. My 2700X, Asus Strix X370-F Gaming and 2x8GB G.Skill DDR4 3200 Cl15 b-die all arrived this week. Looking to rip out my 4790K/Z87/DDR3 guts this weekend, as that hardware is going to be an xmas present for my oldest son (my youngest gets the same parts from the old server I recently retired). Going to be the first time since first gen Athlon that my main PC is an AMD unit, so early 2000's. 

I'm got the AM4 bracket to continue using my dual-fan Noctua U14S, as much as I thought about going with a D15 or Dark Rock Pro 4, or even a Fuma...I am just so happy with the U14S as-is that I really want to use it first and see if I need any better cooling. This cooler has done such a commendable job keeping my 4790K's cooled, whether stock, undervolted, or OC'd...I cannot complain. I don't expect the 2700X to run as cool. I do expect I'll want to OC a little bit, but it sounds like using PBO makes sense with an X-series CPU. I should mention I purchased the bare CPU only, so no Prism cooler.

Feeling pretty damn excited to try a new platform in my main rig.


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## Johan45 (Nov 15, 2018)

Kursah said:


> Hoping to join the club this weekend. My 2700X, Asus Strix X370-F Gaming and 2x8GB G.Skill DDR4 3200 Cl15 b-die all arrived this week. Looking to rip out my 4790K/Z87/DDR3 guts this weekend, as that hardware is going to be an xmas present for my oldest son (my youngest gets the same parts from the old server I recently retired). Going to be the first time since first gen Athlon that my main PC is an AMD unit, so early 2000's.
> 
> I'm got the AM4 bracket to continue using my dual-fan Noctua U14S, as much as I thought about going with a D15 or Dark Rock Pro 4, or even a Fuma...I am just so happy with the U14S as-is that I really want to use it first and see if I need any better cooling. This cooler has done such a commendable job keeping my 4790K's cooled, whether stock, undervolted, or OC'd...I cannot complain. I don't expect the 2700X to run as cool. I do expect I'll want to OC a little bit, but it sounds like using PBO makes sense with an X-series CPU. I should mention I purchased the bare CPU only, so no Prism cooler.
> 
> Feeling pretty damn excited to try a new platform in my main rig.



You won't be disappointed and pretty sure your Noctua will still serve you well. The scaling on these CPUs is pretty steep when you get over 4.1. Yes PBO is a great feature easy to use, try the first step if good go to the next. Should get you 4.1-4.2 all core and maintain the 4.35GHz boost


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## Norton (Nov 16, 2018)

Kursah said:


> I'm got the AM4 bracket to continue using my dual-fan Noctua U14S, as much as I thought about going with a D15 or Dark Rock Pro 4, or even a Fuma...I am just so happy with the U14S as-is that I really want to use it first and see if I need any better cooling. This cooler has done such a commendable job keeping my 4790K's cooled, whether stock, undervolted, or OC'd...I cannot complain. I don't expect the 2700X to run as cool. I do expect I'll want to OC a little bit, but it sounds like using PBO makes sense with an X-series CPU. I should mention I purchased the bare CPU only, so no Prism cooler.


The U14S will do just fine- I'm using them on 2 of my rigs with no complaints.

Also using a D14 and a couple of Scythe Mugen 5 rev b's. All of them run well with the D14 being the worst of the bunch by a very slim margin


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## phanbuey (Nov 16, 2018)

i really love building 2700x amd systems these days... just a bit of memory tuning, and a pbo tweak and you have a really nicely optimized system with minimal tweaking.  Can't wait for zen2.


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## btarunr (Nov 16, 2018)

Is there something wrong with my timings for 2400 MHz? Are there any 32 GB dual-rank 2400 MHz users here?


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## biffzinker (Nov 16, 2018)

Have you tried switching from 2T command rate to 1T? Something about the tRFC timings? Any luck trying to push primary timings back one tick?


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## Johan45 (Nov 16, 2018)

btarunr said:


> Is there something wrong with my timings for 2400 MHz? Are there any 32 GB dual-rank 2400 MHz users here?
> 
> View attachment 110662


Why? What do you think is wrong with it? Looks pretty normal to me


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## btarunr (Nov 18, 2018)

After many failures and lots of research, I finally achieved command-rate 1T stable for my 32GB dual-rank kit at 2400 MHz, with 15-15-15-36 (not a small feat for my Hynix-based Corsair potato sticks). Performance uplift was ~10% in AIDA64 tests. It's astounding just how memory-sensitive Ryzen performance is.


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## Mussels (Nov 20, 2018)

Got my timings sorted out on my RAM, so i'm effectively stock with tighter timings - ryzen DRAM calculator ftw

left is current vs XMP on the right


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## btarunr (Nov 20, 2018)

Mussels said:


> Got my timings sorted out on my RAM, so i'm effectively stock with tighter timings - ryzen DRAM calculator ftw
> 
> left is current vs XMP on the right



As someone stuck with dual-rank,


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## Mussels (Nov 20, 2018)

gave me like a 10% CPU performance boost, sitting at 205 Gflops in linpackextreme


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## Johan45 (Nov 20, 2018)

Yeah, amazing what the RAM can do for Ryzen. We have a monthly bench marathon and I tweaked my 2700X on cold water beating out another poster using DICE by 150 pts in GB4 single core, may not be a fair representation since GB4 is very RAM sensitive.


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## Durvelle27 (Nov 21, 2018)

Does it may much difference between using 2400MHz or 3000MHz RAM

As I bought a Ryzen 1700X and Board but haven’t gotten ram yet and Newegg has a sell on 16GB @2400Mhz for $89


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## ne6togadno (Nov 21, 2018)

Yes. It does.
Infinity fabric ticks at ram speeds and up to 3200-3400 offers noticable performance boost compared to 2100-2333


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## Durvelle27 (Nov 22, 2018)

ne6togadno said:


> Yes. It does.
> Infinity fabric ticks at ram speeds and up to 3200-3400 offers noticable performance boost compared to 2100-2333


Alright I’ll shoot for 3000MHz and try to OC to 3200


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## Mussels (Nov 22, 2018)

just got a new SSD (970 pro 1TB)

overkill, but in the long term when 1TB is too small (like a 128GB is today) it'll make one nice USB stick in a type C enclosure


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## GoldenX (Nov 22, 2018)

Mussels said:


> just got a new SSD (970 pro 1TB)
> 
> overkill, but in the long term when 1TB is too small (like a 128GB is today) it'll make one nice USB stick in a type C enclosure


That's one big USB (s)THICC.


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## Mussels (Nov 22, 2018)

sustained  writes were bad on the intel SSD, it'd hit 73C and throttle - which was a bitch when doing something like shadowplay recording, hoping the Pro will solve the odd stutter i was getting when recording


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## robot zombie (Nov 22, 2018)

Mussels said:


> sustained  writes were bad on the intel SSD, it'd hit 73C and throttle - which was a bitch when doing something like shadowplay recording, hoping the Pro will solve the odd stutter i was getting when recording


Ooof... 73C? I don't think I've ever seen my sammy's break 45C... ...though I've never hit them with constant writes like that. Even if it was normal, that'd bother me. To me it's bad when your SSD is the hottest component in the case


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## Lorec (Nov 22, 2018)

Hi guys! 
I've recently did a platform upgrade from good ol fx 8350. 
Got ryzen 5 2600, msi gaming plus x470 mobo (buildzoids video about entry x470 boards convinced me) and 16gb of Flare X`s. 
I entered bios chose xmp profile 2 and that`s basically it. In high performance mode it usually runs 3.8 @1.18V or something like that.
If I wanted to bump till 4ghz+ prolly Id have to change voltages to like 1.4V right? Is it even worth it?
I game in 4k mostly so my 1080 ti does majority of work. I participate in distributed computing projects (milkyway@home and seti@home) where my gpu is also doing majority of work.
Should I just keep my 2600 stock? will lets say: 4.2ghz have much impact on workloads? (I have an aio btw so right now at 100% I get package temp of around 52C in hwmonitor)

Regards.


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## GoldenX (Nov 22, 2018)

Try how far you can go with Ryzen Master, that way you keep the idle power consumption intact and if you don't need the overclock, you just have to restart.


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## robot zombie (Nov 22, 2018)

Lorec said:


> Hi guys!
> I've recently did a platform upgrade from good ol fx 8350.
> Got ryzen 5 2600, msi gaming plus x470 mobo (buildzoids video about entry x470 boards convinced me) and 16gb of Flare X`s.
> I entered bios chose xmp profile 2 and that`s basically it. In high performance mode it usually runs 3.8 @1.18V or something like that.
> If I wanted to bump till 4ghz+ prolly Id have to change voltages to like 1.4V right? Is it even worth it?


Never really looked into it too deeply, but you stand to raise your multi CB scores by around 200 points, for what it's worth. It generally does benefit from a solid all-core overclock. The stock boosts are great for efficiency and honestly plenty for a lot of people, but there are definitely gains to be had by overclocking the 2600. The boost it does out of the box isn't functionally the same as a traditional all-core OC. Even locking it in at 3.9ghz would likely show a pretty measurable difference. Reason being that it is now holding that 3.9 at all times, across all loads, on all cores. Far less power-efficient, but much better for performance. It just can't compare with what the X chips can do with their XFR2 and PBO. They're not specced to boost the same. The non-x models have a light-footed version of that whole boosting system.

1.4v would be awfully high for 4ghz. I've seen a few benchmark/reviews putting that number out there for their vanilla 2600 overclocks, but I think it's just laziness of just making sure to get enough power to get it stable and do what they need to do to get their scores and put together an article, ime. It's probably overkill for most. Put in some time and you may find it doesn't need that on any board with decent voltage regulation. Mine doesn't even need that for 4.2. Right now I'm doing 4.1 @ 1.23v. I can get 4.2 @ 1.29. Only reason I don't is because I like my fans running quieter. Mine is abnormally low, either by lucky draw or overly-modest voltage readouts, but still... realistically you shouldn't need more than ~1.3v for 4ghz. All that seems to hold me back is cooling. As you up the clocks, this thing really heats up, even if the voltage doesn't seem all that high. Something worth mentioning. You might have trouble getting any decent OC without an aftermarket cooler. You may think "Ah, what's 200mhz?" For these guys it's more than you think, for better and worse.

4.2 is gonna be the wall you hit, whether from temperatures, voltage, stability, or all of the above. But that jump may still be worth it if you have the cooling and your RAM OC holds up (often as you bring the CPU up past 4ghz a RAM config that was once stable is no more.) Memory clocks and timings are important, slightly more so than usual because of infinity fabric. I'm guessing you got the kit of Flare X that's not only b-die but tuned for Ryzen, too. 3200/CL14 Yes? If so, feel free to run the stock profile. Otherwise I do recommend tuning it yourself via the Ryzen DRAM Calculator.

Enjoy your 2600! I can safely say I have zero regrets with mine. Such a steal.


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## Lorec (Nov 22, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> Even locking it in at 3.9ghz would likely show a pretty measurable difference. Reason being that it is now holding that 3.9 at all times, across all loads, on all cores. Far less power-efficient, but much better for performance. It just can't compare with what the X chips can do with their XFR2 and PBO. They're not specced to boost the same. The non-x models have a light-footed version of that whole boosting system.
> 
> I'm guessing you got the kit of Flare X that's not only b-die but tuned for Ryzen, too. 3200/CL14 Yes? If so, feel free to run the stock profile. Otherwise I do recommend tuning it yourself via the Ryzen DRAM Calculator.
> 
> Enjoy your 2600! I can safely say I have zero regrets with mine. Such a steal.



I`ve noticed that most of times cores wouldn't boost equally! like in reality only one core goes up to 3.8 while rest of them sits comfortably at 3.5ghz.
Ill try to play a bit with my clocks then! Btw should I do it like @GoldenX recommended - through Ryzen Master or just do it off of bios?

I do have 3200/CL14 for Ryzen (in my area the werent much more expensive than other non binned dies)

Actually my choice of 2600 was mainly due to the amazing price/performance ratio also I was hoping that maybe I could use my msi x470 board for ryzen 2(amd was hinting something about x470 compatibility) so there is no point in spending too much right now.


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## robot zombie (Nov 22, 2018)

Lorec said:


> I`ve noticed that most of times cores wouldn't boost equally! like in reality only one core goes up to 3.8 while rest of them sits comfortably at 3.5ghz.
> Ill try to play a bit with my clocks then! Btw should I do it like @GoldenX recommended - through Ryzen Master or just do it off of bios?


Yeah, it's designed and configured to do that. It boosts the fastest/highest-affinity cores at the expense of the "backup" ones. All of it is governed by a combination of factory-designated clock/voltage range and temperature readouts. In single-threaded loads the difference is slight at worst, but heavily multi-threaded tasks definitely do suffer quite a lot for it. And it gets worse under the heaviest loads, as the boost to the best core starts to dip, too. With the X-models you don't see this as even the "lesser" cores boost almost to the max the chip can do on a manual OC, with the best cores going up beyond what anybody sees with a manual all-core OC... ...some people see SC boosts up to 4.35 every so often! The system really squeezes everything it can out of them... ...more than you'd be able to on your own. Unfortunately, the vanilla models kinda get gimped by it because the base clocks just aren't high enough. It doesn't make as much sense to let it go that way when you can easily get all cores sustaining what that one core will boost to sometimes. I think they had efficiency as a higher priority with the vanilla models. And they did a great job. They aren't geared for max performance like the X-models are. They run cool/quiet, they are inexpensive, stable, and yet still perform well out of the box. Doesn't mean you can't squeeze out a little more though 

Ryzen Master really comes in handy, as it allows you to tweak voltage and core clocks without rebooting. So you can set it, test, set, test... saves a lot of time once you hit a workable voltage for whatever you're shooting for. I recommend just setting a safe voltage that will for sure work, setting your mark on the clocks, and going from there. Just decrease voltage until it crashes or whatever. Personally I like to to use IBT for the preliminary stuff, because it often won't crash if the OC is bad. It'll usually just halt the test, outside of crossing the clock speed line. That and it's fast and will tell you fairly soon if the OC is never gonna work or if temperatures are going to be an immediate issue. I say save the long and/or realistic tests for after you've eliminated the really bad configs. This combined with Ryzen Master will get you in and out of the ballpark pretty quickly. In the end you'll want to transfer it over to the BIOS side though, as Ryzen Master needs to be started and applied at every boot - it doesn't automatically apply your OC every time.



> I do have 3200/CL14 for Ryzen (in my area the werent much more expensive than other non binned dies)


Haha, a wise choice. Ryzen RAM overclocking has been a subject of notoriety from the beginning. 3200/CL14 is the standard for good performance, so you're already on the right foot. Messing with RAM is the most tedious part. You get to skip it  Unless you like to suffer like some of us do lol



> Actually my choice of 2600 was mainly due to the amazing price/performance ratio also I was hoping that maybe I could use my msi x470 board for ryzen 2(amd was hinting something about x470 compatibility) so there is no point in spending too much right now.


We shall see about future motherboard compatibility. Personally I got an x370 for cheap and I'm happy with it. But I said recently that this may or may not be my holdout build for Zen 2. I figure if Zen 2 sucks or just isn't worth the cash, this will still serve me plenty well enough! It definitely has so far.

Welcome to the fold and good luck.


----------



## Johan45 (Nov 22, 2018)

Lorec said:


> Hi guys!
> I've recently did a platform upgrade from good ol fx 8350.
> Got ryzen 5 2600, msi gaming plus x470 mobo (buildzoids video about entry x470 boards convinced me) and 16gb of Flare X`s.
> I entered bios chose xmp profile 2 and that`s basically it. In high performance mode it usually runs 3.8 @1.18V or something like that.
> ...


Go for it, being the non "X" it typically leaves a lot on the table with the "X" they run around 4.0 all core and 4,2+ boost on two. I tested a few Ryzen 2xxx CPUs and the 2600 I use daily turned out to be the best of the bunch for a low voltage OC. 24/7 at 4.2GHz with 1.35V and 3333 CL14 mem. Not all are created equal but getting your CPU to 4.0 all core or higher really shouldn't be that hard


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## Mussels (Nov 22, 2018)

that samsung 970 pro has blown this ryzen up a world in performance... the USB part of the windows 10 install had rebooted in under a minute, 20 minutes after SSD install and i'm here on TPU with all my core apps, programs and drivers ready to go - only thing not finished is restoring steam from external SSD

looking forward to seeing how this bitch runs games now







USB 3 is holding me back... front USB3 ports not working, gotta figure out why that is (asmedia drivers didnt auto install?)

Edit: system already felt fast, but that thermal throttling/cache filling on the SSD is very noticeably NOT THERE now. Installing steam, copying 300GB of games, while installing windows updates all at the same time and it feels snappy af. Highly recommend everyone here to blow their kidneys on new SSDs.


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## ne6togadno (Nov 22, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> Alright I’ll shoot for 3000MHz and try to OC to 3200


make sure you check the prices of 3200 kits too. it might turn out for just 10-15 more you can get 3200 out of the box.


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## Durvelle27 (Nov 23, 2018)

This is the RAM I’m looking at currently

Team T-Force Vulcan 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3000 (PC4 24000) Memory (Desktop Memory) Model TLRED416G3000HC16CDC01 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=20-313-778&ignorebbr=true


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## ne6togadno (Nov 23, 2018)

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232728
this one should easily run at 3200 with tighter timings

some ppl get good results with this
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232767 

may be you can find thaiphoon burner image for the ram you are looking at
you may try https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/ryzen-dram-calculator-1-3-0.246327/ and see what you could expect from it


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 23, 2018)

So I got my new Ek monoblock fitted last night ,wow I would recommend it's considered use, fair enough my old one was not great (occool one , generic but not terrible) im 10-15 ° better off now, it auto clocks a bit higher too (4.25 all cores), I'll try a manual Oc this weekend .


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## btarunr (Nov 25, 2018)

MSI just put out 400-series motherboard BIOS updates with AGESA 1.0.0.6 (improved memory support).


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## GoldenX (Nov 25, 2018)

btarunr said:


> MSI just put out 400-series motherboard BIOS updates with AGESA 1.0.0.6 (improved memory support).


It's also up for my B350, thanks.


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## biffzinker (Nov 25, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> This is the RAM I’m looking at currently
> 
> Team T-Force Vulcan 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3000 (PC4 24000) Memory (Desktop Memory) Model TLRED416G3000HC16CDC01 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=20-313-778&ignorebbr=true


Ran into some sorta of compatibility issue with Ryen and MSI B350 mobo using TEAMGroup Vulcan 2x4GB DDR4 3000. They overclocked easily to 3400 MHz but the bandwidth numbers were substantially lower than they should of been. They checked out as being Samsung B-die though.


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## btarunr (Nov 25, 2018)

2666 MHz is finally stress-stable with AGESA 1.0.0.6. I can use the settings below as base-camp to tighten timings first, and seek out higher memory clocks. All this on a Ryzen-unfriendly Corsair Hynix-based dual-rank 32GB kit from 2016. More than memory bandwidth, it's the improved inter-CCX bandwidth I'm after.


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## GoldenX (Nov 25, 2018)

On the memory front, this new BIOS allowed me to get 3200 CL16, but nothing over 3333 (must be the limit of my sticks).
Best part is, now I can adjust the BCLK up to 103MHz. So now, stock turbo hits 3550MHz.


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## Kursah (Nov 25, 2018)

Seems I'll have to wait and hope Asus will release an update with AGESA 1.0.0.7, as they haven't added any since 1.0.0.2 and nobody's been able to confirm anything. Running into some limitations with attempts at tuning and OC-ing. Though my RAM currently runs super stable at 3200 CL14, so no complaints there. But I can't go over 100.60 for BCLK without the board going into OC-mode (disabling PBO and Core Performance Boost features.

Another issue is I can't force Core Performance Boost features, I have Auto and Disable.

Also missing a ton of settings in the CBS section, no P-States, etc. Looking at potentially trying a modded BIOS version of 4012 (the version that came with AGESA 1.0.0.2a). Currently running stock 4024 and not completely satisfied with it. Seems Asus is falling way behind on supporting their boards...or maybe they are just developing for 1.0.0.7 and Ryzen2 instead. I dunno, still learning the AMD-side of things.

Right now with PBO, I generally load around 4.1GHz on all cores in CB15, all cores peak at 4.35Ghz individually, nothing special there. But I have started to undervolt a little and was hoping to push BCLK to sneak in a 4.5GHz peak boost and 4.2Ghz on all cores. I guess not yet on this board. I am looking into the modded bios stuff here: https://www.overclock.net/forum/11-...yzen-bios-mods-how-update-bios-correctly.html

Anyone have experiences with that and this board per chance?


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## cdawall (Nov 25, 2018)

Waiting on Asrock to do the AGESA update as well. Hope I can get these up to 3200 finally.


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## Mussels (Nov 25, 2018)

sigh, i fucked up by not getting a board with BCLK control

gotta fix that when i see an x470 sale on


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## GoldenX (Nov 25, 2018)

Kursah said:


> But I can't go over 100.60 for BCLK without the board going into OC-mode (disabling PBO and Core Performance Boost features.


Same problem here, had to turn it off, sadly. I can keep PBO, but Cool and Quiet turns off.


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## Mussels (Nov 25, 2018)

issues like that pissed me off when i got this board (and chose a cheap one)

I want CnQ working, PBO and BCLK control
Why is that so hard?


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## cdawall (Nov 26, 2018)

Mussels said:


> sigh, i fucked up by not getting a board with BCLK control
> 
> gotta fix that when i see an x470 sale on



They don't have a MATX board with BCLK control for x399 at all so don't feel too terrible. I am just SOL.


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## biffzinker (Nov 26, 2018)

Finally bclk adjustment is available. XFR and PBO seem to be working with 101 MHz.

Idle


Boost


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## GoldenX (Nov 26, 2018)

Made mine work too at 102.9, the max.
I'm testing if 3133 at lower 16-16-16 timmings is better than 3200 at 16-18-18 or 3333 at 18-20-20.


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## btarunr (Nov 26, 2018)

Highly likely that "Pinnacle Ridge" successor die will feature 16 cores spread across two 8-core CCX. 

https://www.techpowerup.com/249952/sandra-db-entry-hints-at-1x-16mb-l3-cache-per-amd-rome-chiplet


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## GoldenX (Nov 26, 2018)

8 cores 16 threads APU... Me wants.


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## btarunr (Nov 26, 2018)

I misread that SANDRA entry. Apparently each chiplet still features two 4-core CCX, but each CCX has double the L3 cache amount over previous generation (16 MB). They probably needed that to cushion transfers with the I/O controller die better.


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## biffzinker (Nov 26, 2018)

Too bad I'm at work otherwise I'd still be messing around with the bclk and memory divider.


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## Mussels (Nov 26, 2018)

right so money came in, i can upgrade to x470 guilt free

What boards support PBO, BCLK, and CnQ at the same time? Currently looking as asrock taichi


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## GoldenX (Nov 26, 2018)

Mussels said:


> right so money came in, i can upgrade to x470 guilt free
> 
> What boards support PBO, BCLK, and CnQ at the same time? Currently looking as asrock taichi


You know, a database with that kind of info would be great. We usually go mostly blind when getting a new motherboard.


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## Mussels (Nov 26, 2018)

Ugh, reading on reddit shows up what a shitshow ryzen mobos are

Taichi is popular for its price, but its BIOS and BIOS updates are slow
Asus Crosshair is the king, but its almost $500 Au
Gigabyte/Auorus boards are popular, but they break RGB lighting on corsair ram (confirmed, i've got this issue) and several missing BIOS features/confusing variants of boards missing features
MSI... ehh, i'm torn. My x370 board had some things that shat me up the wall on a 1700 (no voltage offset, for example) - but seeing how using the offset at all outright screws with my aourus board, what is there to lose? Oh right the shitty overheating VRMs 


edit: hell, people are only getting maybe 200Mhz more on these superior boards... might not be worth it at this point in time


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## GoldenX (Nov 26, 2018)

I want to return to the times of less RGB leds and more quality on both boards and bios.


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## biffzinker (Nov 26, 2018)

Asrock X470 Taichi supports bclk adjustment. 
https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X470 Taichi/index.us.asp#Specification


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## Mussels (Nov 26, 2018)

taichi has slow bios updates for agesa and no BIOS safety features at all - no USB flashing, no dual bios, nada

reddits really talking me into coughing up for the CHVII


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## Kursah (Nov 26, 2018)

Got the modified 4012 BIOS flashed on my ROG Strix X370-F Gaming. I have P-States, PBO, and all sorts of goodies to tweak. Testing some settings now to see what I can accomplish and if this was worth the effort. It was actually quite easy, and if this guy mods the AGESA 1.0.0.7 BIOS the same way, I may be tempted to install it. We shall see how my experience goes. I'll report back. But so far, so good! Stable, just seems to add A LOT more stuff that was either removed, not fully implemented or hidden. Most of it I'll never touch, but having the few things I felt I wanted/needed is hopefully a good sign.


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## robot zombie (Nov 26, 2018)

Kursah said:


> Got the modified 4012 BIOS flashed on my ROG Strix X370-F Gaming. I have P-States, PBO, and all sorts of goodies to tweak. Testing some settings now to see what I can accomplish and if this was worth the effort. It was actually quite easy, and if this guy mods the AGESA 1.0.0.7 BIOS the same way, I may be tempted to install it. We shall see how my experience goes. I'll report back. But so far, so good! Stable, just seems to add A LOT more stuff that was either removed, not fully implemented or hidden. Most of it I'll never touch, but having the few things I felt I wanted/needed is hopefully a good sign.


Do keep us posted... same board over here, same feelings on it 

The one thing I really like about this board is how they actually crammed some decent components on. Nice, no-nonsense power handling, not the wicked double-digit phase VRM's of the Taichi or CH 470's, but actually still more than enough for a 2700X. Good audio. Decent heatsinks, for what passes for heatsinks today, anyway... ...my one, well... _three_ issues have been a lack of certain OC features, Asus' continual problems rolling with AGESA progress, and the lack of certain RAM settings. The base board is so solid that I want to recommend a second-hand one to people looking for a budget high-performance board for Ryzen 5/7, but I just can't, you know? A better featured BIOS might just change that.

Which reminds me... ...yes @GoldenX a reference for BIOS capabilities of different boards would be friggen killer. That's always the nail biter for me. You look at the board, its advertised feature set (things like 10 gig lan, post codes, dual bios, what have you,) the components on it, the performance specs... ...and ALL of that can be perfect, but if the BIOS sucks, you're still kind of screwed...


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## Kursah (Nov 26, 2018)

I can tell you so far that my BCLK attempts were a failure. 100.60 is still the max I can do without tripping "OC mode" that disables XFR2 and PBO on my 2700X, leaving me at 37XX MHz at max multi with no boost. But I still net an approximately 25MHz boost at 100.60, and was able to keep my CL14 timings on my 3200 speed at 3220 without issue.

So far performance tests are pretty much the same... a little less in CB15, a little more in Ashes CPU bench. Still messing with a few things before I check out p-state overclocking. But it seems like BCLK is out of reach for this one at the moment. Not sure if a future BIOS will fix that or not, but I was reading and confirming the same issue occurs on the ROG Strix X470-Gaming as well.

I'll definitely post more updates as I test more things!


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 28, 2018)

Mussels said:


> taichi has slow bios updates for agesa and no BIOS safety features at all - no USB flashing, no dual bios, nada
> 
> reddits really talking me into coughing up for the CHVII


well Msi seam to be absolute best for bios updates, ive got a C7 wifi and it has all three of them(features), i actually just clicked on to them today ,i had been multi clocking, os clocking all sorts to get higher in use clocks but im at 105 Bclk for 3.8 base clocks and 4.3-35 with Pbo on and it all running itself so to speak, makes for odd times, only asus Ai suite has clicked the bus has changed to 105 and shows accurate clocks , Hwinfo shows stock clocks, I was befuddled initially , with that and good ram and 3466 is quite easy still even clocking the Bclk since Pciex, memory and therefore infinity fabric ? are on the 100 clck.

Its a good board but im not 100% happy with bios swiftness, plus I got 1001 for it when it came out ,that night one stick of ram died, I Rma'd and it happens but 1001 got emediately pulled without comment ,now 1002 is out and i use it its ok , better then before but the agesa is ancient now 1.0.0.4 i think  maybe .2 , Id still buy one but I had a ChV for 5 years so im biased. , but happy ,ish.

P-state clocking?? whats that about??

Im lovin this platform for OC abilities.


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## Johan45 (Nov 28, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> well Msi seam to be absolute best for bios updates, ive got a C7 wifi and it has all three of them(features), i actually just clicked on to them today ,i had been multi clocking, os clocking all sorts to get higher in use clocks but im at 105 Bclk for 3.8 base clocks and 4.3-35 with Pbo on and it all running itself so to speak, makes for odd times, only asus Ai suite has clicked the bus has changed to 105 and shows accurate clocks , Hwinfo shows stock clocks, I was befuddled initially , with that and good ram and 3466 is quite easy still even clocking the Bclk since Pciex, memory and therefore infinity fabric ? are on the 100 clck.
> 
> Its a good board but im not 100% happy with bios swiftness, plus I got 1001 for it when it came out ,that night one stick of ram died, I Rma'd and it happens but 1001 got emediately pulled without comment ,now 1002 is out and i use it its ok , better then before but the agesa is ancient now 1.0.0.4 i think  maybe .2 , Id still buy one but I had a ChV for 5 years so im biased. , but happy ,ish.
> 
> ...


Not sure if you're running in Asynchronous mode which it sounds like but that has a detrimental effect on latency. That board has a setting called PE1,2,3 etc.. Performance Enhancer is a pretty effective solution for raising all core boost, so are the PBO settings in advanced>AMD CBS section. Try playing around with these to raise all core and raising the BCLK afterward in synced mode will raise all your boost clocks even the max when using the PE settings


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## YautjaLord (Nov 28, 2018)

Quick question: have anyone of you experimented with this one? I have ordered one a few hours ago, the Thermal Grizzly Hydronaut doesn't seem to keep/cope up with the heat Small FFTs test produce.  25+ mins in & it just freeze & temps are at 76-ish tDie/86-ish tCtl. Cheers, thanx in advance.

P.S. Ordered from newegg, they ship to IsraHell. lol jk


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## ArbitraryAffection (Nov 28, 2018)

Mussels said:


> Ugh, reading on reddit shows up what a shitshow ryzen mobos are
> 
> Taichi is popular for its price, but its BIOS and BIOS updates are slow
> Asus Crosshair is the king, but its almost $500 Au
> ...


Honestly I've been using MSI Ryzen boards almost exclusively since Zen launch and I've never had a single VRM overheat, even with 1800X @ 4.0 GHz all core in a B350 PC Mate. That said, for stability testing I would place a fan on the VRM heatsink when running Prime95, but for gaming use I never had any issues.


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## Johan45 (Nov 28, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> Quick question: have anyone of you experimented with this one? I have ordered one a few hours ago, the Thermal Grizzly Hydronaut doesn't seem to keep/cope up with the heat Small FFTs test produce.  25+ mins in & it just freeze & temps are at 76-ish tDie/86-ish tCtl. Cheers, thanx in advance.
> 
> P.S. Ordered from newegg, they ship to IsraHell. lol jk



That's a liquid metal just so you know. I doubt it's the paste that's the problem and your temps are still well within limits. Have you tried bumping the volts just a bit?


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## YautjaLord (Nov 28, 2018)

Yup, 1.4v on CPU vCore - same shit. It just freezes whenever........... Y'know, forget it Johan45, yeah, i know it (Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut) is liquid metal, that's the whole point, 76 degrees C on tDie & it hangs _entire rig/system - _not my cup of coffee/vodka chaser/etc..... It throttles, i don't want anything like that when i upload my first vid, that's like admitting - yeah, it got f*cked up, look, i'm an amateur. Really?  Liquid metal & way below 70-ish in full load on tCtl/60-ish - tDie: that's my goal eventually. I believe monoblock has something to do with it in combination with this TIM (Thermal Grizzly Hydronaut), see if liquid metal helps. BTW/FYI: Conductonaut is one of 3 best liquid metal (metal!!!! \m/ lol) TIMs, cooler it gets, extra room for me to reach stable 4.3GHz 24/7 OC.

So, did you experimented with this mofo & just in general how was the experience? Cheers.


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## Johan45 (Nov 28, 2018)

I haven't used it but reports I see look impressive especially for de-lids. This isn't the same application so I wouldn't expect the 10-15° you can see on a CPU die.
What are you trying to accomplish, your build says you're running at 4.2 already
If you're trying for 4.3 both my "X" cpus needed 1.45V to stabilize


----------



## DR4G00N (Nov 28, 2018)

Is there any good reason to update the bios on my X370 Taichi? Do the newer bios' improve oc'ing at all for 1st Gen? Currently using V3.20.


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## Johan45 (Nov 28, 2018)

In general, the newer BIOS made some memory compatibility improvements but you really can't extend the OC on these CPUs that much it's all HW limited. I'd say if it works stick to it.


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## YautjaLord (Nov 28, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> I haven't used it but reports I see look impressive especially for de-lids. This isn't the same application so I wouldn't expect the 10-15° you can see on a CPU die.
> What are you trying to accomplish, your build says you're running at 4.2 already
> If you're trying for 4.3 both my "X" cpus needed 1.45V to stabilize



This exactly. 1.45v on vCore too aggressive or within the 2700X sane/stable limits? Ryzen 1000 series should be 1.4v on vCore tops, my 1700X was @ 1.41v for 3.9GHz & would either boot loop like crazy, or just won't boot at all when @ 4.0GHz, it _would _boot into OS sometime, but any time i'd try to run Cinebench R15 it would go bananas. 

Also: HPET & Power plans, i have HPET On & OS power plan is Ryzen Balanced, turn HPET Off & change power plan to High Perf or Balanced? And about the de-lid, it's der8auer's territory for now, i don't have all necessary equip right now, but i know it shaves off a good chunk of temps, just the risk is not so worthy most of the time especially if you newb/novice.


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## Johan45 (Nov 28, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> This exactly. 1.45v on vCore too aggressive or within the 2700X sane/stable limits? Ryzen 1000 series should be 1.4v on vCore tops, my 1700X was @ 1.41v for 3.9GHz & would either boot loop like crazy, or just won't boot at all when @ 4.0GHz, it _would _boot into OS sometime, but any time i'd try to run Cinebench R15 it would go bananas.
> 
> Also: HPET & Power plans, i have HPET On & OS power plan is Ryzen Balanced, turn HPET Off & change power plan to High Perf or Balanced? And about the de-lid, it's der8auer's territory for now, i don't have all necessary equip right now, but i know it shaves off a good chunk of temps, just the risk is not so worthy most of the time especially if you newb/novice.


Unless you plan to run that chip for 10 years I wouldn't worry too much about using 1.45V which is the ONLY way you're going to get 4.3 unless you can drop the temps 20°+
My reference to the delid was only for LM performance on Intel CPUs
You don't need to use Ryzen PP any longer Win10 has corrected its issues with the CPU and this time around HPET doesn't seem to help and actually can hurt gaming performance


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## YautjaLord (Nov 28, 2018)

I still get ~200fps in DOOM @ 1080p maxed out. I ask will HPET On hurt OC'ing, plus i disabled Win 10 Automatic updates. Will DL October 2018 update manually, from MS servers. Uninstall Ryzen Balanced plan? Gaming seems unaffected on this rig with HPET On as far as i'm concerned. Just saying. 

P.S. Will be getting Zen 2/Rome CPU along with new everything except M.2 NVMe SSD & LCS, by the end of September/October 2019. Probably.


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## Johan45 (Nov 28, 2018)

HPET won't hurt Overclocking
No need to uninstall Ryzen PP just no need to use it anymore
SO if everything is getting replaced go to town on it, no need to worry about CPU life and if it does for some unexplained reason die between now and then just remember you never overclocked it not once lol


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## YautjaLord (Nov 28, 2018)

I dunno, thanx for advice?  jk
I'll wait 8 to 15 work days til Conductonaut arrives, apply it on my current (2700X) & then go to town with Zen 2/Rome (Ryzen 7 3700X? 3800X?), Zen 2 will be cooled by Conductonaut as well. I also wanna make this current rig water cooled, meaning - graphics card (GTX 1070 G1) will be water cooled as well as CPU before March 2019 (Zen 2 est. release date).


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 28, 2018)

I think these chips are essentially thermally limited most.


Johan45 said:


> Not sure if you're running in Asynchronous mode which it sounds like but that has a detrimental effect on latency. That board has a setting called PE1,2,3 etc.. Performance Enhancer is a pretty effective solution for raising all core boost, so are the PBO settings in advanced>AMD CBS section. Try playing around with these to raise all core and raising the BCLK afterward in synced mode will raise all your boost clocks even the max when using the PE settings


So i should set it to auto clock essentially then up bclk I have and much more besides , ill try everything a fair few times  tbh just to see and thats not how it works as is its boosting all cores to 4.235 and the odd one beyond that to 4.35 i think but not many are ever hitting that.
I too seam to be thermally limited, i can run a higher core then i can maintain , when a core temp goes much beyond 71 it throttles or locks up more often ,i am however testing and looking into it but its like my monoblock just isnt extracting heat quick enough, i am going to work on fan speeds etc see how that goes.

to be fair i can game at high clocks its just the odd lockup say 32 hours in crunching and folding on the system listed.

question on P states , looks complex but reading up quite straight forward but is this P0 the Base clock ,all core boost or Sc boost clock ?


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## Johan45 (Nov 29, 2018)

P0 will be your highest all core OC, I haven't tried it on my new board so not sure if the boost will still go higher on 2 cores but I don't think it does. I put together a guide here for the CHVI you'll also need a hex converter  https://www.overclockers.com/forums...air-VI-P-State-modification-for-power-savings



theoneandonlymrk said:


> I think these chips are essentially thermally limited most.
> 
> So i should set it to auto clock essentially then up bclk I have and much more besides , ill try everything a fair few times  tbh just to see and thats not how it works as is its boosting all cores to 4.235 and the odd one beyond that to 4.35 i think but not many are ever hitting that.
> I too seam to be thermally limited, i can run a higher core then i can maintain , when a core temp goes much beyond 71 it throttles or locks up more often ,i am however testing and looking into it but its like my monoblock just isnt extracting heat quick enough, i am going to work on fan speeds etc see how that goes.
> ...


----------



## YautjaLord (Nov 29, 2018)

@Johan45: And pretty much everyone that played with P-States, i know i'm interested the most in tweaking P0 states only, leaving the rest @ Auto (atleast that's the info I gathered throughout the web); now, say, in combination with "regular" OC'ing i did through GB's M.I.T. section, exactly how do i tweak P0 states? Previously i set P0 to manual & that's it; it was when i still had 1700X, how far do i go with 2700X? I know it can be pain in the arse/ass but when doing it wisely(?) it can be golden? I really wanna stabilize OC til next weekend, Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut should arrive by then. Cheers, thanx in advance.


----------



## Johan45 (Nov 29, 2018)

The main reason I found on X370/Ryzen 1XXX to use the P-State was to maintain downvolting and speed drop when PC was idle. On second Gen using PBO works just as well, the main reason I haven't messed with it.
Gigabyte BIOS is unfamiliar territory for me. I really don't like their set-up so I don't use them daily. If I have one I sell it first but on ASUS it's under the advanced section, then a heading called AMD CBS P-State control is in that menu. In yours i'D CHECK THE ADVANCE cpu SETTINGS c-STATE CONTROL OR MAYBE BOOST CONTROL NOT SURE


----------



## YautjaLord (Nov 29, 2018)

I know it already @Johan45, i meant the stuff that opens up once you set P0 state to manual, the VID, the PID or however these called - do you or anyone here familiar with this stuff? BTW: It's in Peripherals section/tab/header of my mobo's BIOS, for some strange reason.


----------



## Johan45 (Nov 29, 2018)

That guide I linked earlier might help. If it's the same as ASUS then the values used are HEX values and you need to find an appropriate replacement for your CPU's multi there's a formula to figure that out. I would just use offset voltage and not bother with that in this section.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 30, 2018)

YautjaLord said:


> I know it already @Johan45, i meant the stuff that opens up once you set P0 state to manual, the VID, the PID or however these called - do you or anyone here familiar with this stuff? BTW: It's in Peripherals section/tab/header of my mobo's BIOS, for some strange reason.



i've seen that on my x370 board, you have to use hex code to enter things so say, 9E would be accepted
Honestly its a nightmare, the max clocks i could enter were far lower than my turbo anyway - this is why i want x470/x570? and use PBO


----------



## Johan45 (Nov 30, 2018)

Mussels said:


> i've seen that on my x370 board, you have to use hex code to enter things so say, 9E would be accepted
> Honestly its a nightmare, the max clocks i could enter were far lower than my turbo anyway - this is why i want x470/x570? and use PBO


I found it gave a better all core OC, might be different with a second gen since they boost to 4.0 anyway well the "X" variants do.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Nov 30, 2018)

Got a decent deal today at Microcenter 

Paid $206 for CPU, Board, and Corsair Mount Kit


----------



## biffzinker (Nov 30, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> Paid $206 for CPU, Board, and Corsair Mount Kit


Nice score on the bundled deal.


----------



## GoldenX (Nov 30, 2018)

I want those kind of deals here...
I'm at 103MHz BCLK, and the RAM at 3044 16-16-16-39. Will test the next RAM step as well.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Nov 30, 2018)

biffzinker said:


> Nice score on the bundled deal.


Definitely was

I wish I was off a few days ago. It would have been even cheaper. The CPU was $129.99 plus $30 off any board. Everything would have came out to $170 

Now just trying to source some ram


----------



## Johan45 (Nov 30, 2018)

The flareX was on sale 3200 CL14 it's the easiest RAM to work with. Probably still costs as much as the whole bundle


----------



## Durvelle27 (Nov 30, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> The flareX was on sale 3200 CL14 it's the easiest RAM to work with. Probably still costs as much as the whole bundle


last i checked it was like above $169

Also how are you liking your 1070Ti


----------



## Johan45 (Nov 30, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> last i checked it was like above $169
> 
> Also how are you liking your 1070Ti


It's a decent GPU but was more than I needed for 1080p gaming. I have swapped it for an RX 580 leaving the HTPC all AMD based.
Looks Like I need to update my system specs.


----------



## btarunr (Nov 30, 2018)

Story time.

I was doing 2667 with 18-20-20-38-CR1 @ 1.35V (can't ask for much more from a dual-rank 32 GB kit). AGESA 1.0.0.6 update gave me a free pass to 2667 from 2400. I wanted more, given that Intel platform users easily pull 3200+ from these kind of timings (even with 2R kits). So I politely asked Ryzen master "icanhaz 1400?". I clicked on "profile 1," copied from "current" (so the timings and voltages are carried over), and dialed up DRAM clock, and "Apply." EZPZ, right?

Then the motherboard refused to boot. Normally when a Ryzen Master memory OC fails, the board resets the machine some 6-7 times over, and starts with failsafe settings. This time around, there was no such reboot loop. Not scared yet. I peek into the case and see that among the four diagnostic LEDs, the "CPU" LED is glowing. "Huh" I said, powered down, and pushed the Clear-CMOS button.

Here's where it gets scary. The machine continues to play dead with the "CPU" diag LED glowing, and no failsafe-seeking reboot loop. The machine now has my full attention. I try the Clear-CMOS thingie 3 times over. I know the Clear-CMOS button registers because each time I press it, the "CMOS Cleared" LED glows.

"Fvck...did I just brick my processor?" "DAAMMM YOU HYYNIXXX!" "Weekend ruined, time to order a new board" <<<some of the things going through my mind.

I then try a cold reboot. Turn off the PSU, wait 1 minute for capacitors to flush, turn PSU back on, and push power button. NO Luck "OMG I HAVE DISHONORED MY FAMILY, TIME TO FIND A KATANA"

Wife calls from her work just to catch up/small-talk/yap. I'm trying hard to keep a bold tone because she can hear trouble in my voice with the skill of a CIA veteran.

While distracted in the call, my eye turns to the F1 button. Universally, F1 is HALP. I was like "wth, let's try this one too." So I hold down F1 and push the power button.

LO AND BEHOLD, the failsafe-seeking reboot loop is BACK. 7 reboots later, machine boots to failsafe state. I go to BIOS, and simply restore the 2667 OC profile I had saved before this fiasco, and now we're fresh out of wine in the house.

Fin.

Lessons learned: Don't buy Ryzen if you don't have/want Samsung B-die memory; don't buy a motherboard without a real POST code readout; Don't use Ryzen Master.


----------



## GoldenX (Nov 30, 2018)

I just hit it with a clear cmos and wait a couple of minutes to let her compose herself, it didn't scare me like that.
Except for the first boot, it seems current motherboards are set as UEFI boot as default, and I had an old HD7750 (BIOS only), it took some 5 minutes to do he first boot, all the time with the CPU and GPU status led on.
I still can't believe I can push 3333 MHz out of these old Micron 2400MHz chips.


----------



## Johan45 (Nov 30, 2018)

btarunr said:


> Story time.
> 
> Lessons learned: Don't buy Ryzen if you don't have/want Samsung B-die memory; don't buy a motherboard without a real POST code readout; *Don't use Ryzen Master*.


Glad you managed to dig out of that one, I highlighted the big culprit
Between Win10 and RM they dig so far into the BIOS I have had to Flash it to get it going again. I have only used it a few times for reviews or guides and even with Samsung and a debug readout it still thoroughly trashed things on me. Not as bad as what you described but it has made the BIOS unuseable/responsive any changes would crash the system  until RM was removed and BIOS reflashed.


----------



## YautjaLord (Nov 30, 2018)

Mussels said:


> i've seen that on my x370 board, you have to use hex code to enter things so say, 9E would be accepted
> Honestly its a nightmare, the max clocks i could enter were far lower than my turbo anyway - this is why i want x470/x570? and use PBO



So you basically saying tweak the "regular" stuff in M.I.T. (vCore, SoC, etc... ) & forget the AMD CBS altogether, yeah? It was a nightmare for me as well, for a life of me, so many BSODs & boot loops on my part, it was beyond ridiculous. Thanx regardless, cheers.


----------



## robot zombie (Nov 30, 2018)

Thats craaazy. I use RM for messing with CPU clocks/voltage all of the time. Never saw any point in the RAM features though. You have to reboot anyway so at that point you might as well work from the BIOS. I can see how doing that OS side could be hitchy.


----------



## Kursah (Nov 30, 2018)

TBH I haven't messed with anything this week. Been too busy with work and other stuff. But with PBO, I do see regular 4.35 boosts at lower loads on 2 cores, and 4-4.1 boost at mid to somewhat heavy loads on all cores, then 4.0-4.05 on super heavy loads on all cores...sometimes dipping into 3.95 territory. I would like to boost all core clocks to 4.1 at the heaviest loads...hoping to have time this weekend to see if I can accomplish that.

Was really hoping BCLK would work better with the modded BIOS for that, but again, going over 100.60 puts the system into OC mode which disables PBO and XFR2.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Nov 30, 2018)

Do you guys think a Aesetek 550 is enough for the Ryzen 7 1700X


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 1, 2018)

Or a Corsair H70


----------



## Johan45 (Dec 1, 2018)

Any decent air cooler will work. If AIO I'd go for a double rad anyway


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 1, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Any decent air cooler will work. If AIO I'd go for a double rad anyway


Those are the 2 I already have


----------



## GoldenX (Dec 1, 2018)

Interconnect them


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 1, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> Interconnect them


Tubes wouldn’t be long enough to reach each other


----------



## Johan45 (Dec 2, 2018)

Damn, just run it then


----------



## btarunr (Dec 2, 2018)

Tightened timings some more. Machine is now finally on par with reference benchmarks of 2700X measured on high-clock single-rank modules.






I'll start playing with PBO now to see how far we can go with Wraith Prism.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 2, 2018)

Finally got the last piece I need to start my build. The RAM

Are there any tips on overclocking RAM


----------



## GoldenX (Dec 2, 2018)

Use a higher SoC voltage to improve max DRAM frequency (along with RAM voltage), Max should be 1.25v, but I've never seen needing more than 1.15v. I use 1.00v for 3333MHz, might be good luck.
Don't let the voltages on auto, these motherboards use some kind of table for "stable" values, and they use too much voltage.

Be lazy, I use XMP (2400 CL16), force 1.4v on DRAM (testing 1.35v), and 1v on SoC, then bump the DRAM frequency to 3155MHz (103x30,66). Some motherboards even have a "Try" option with preset frequencies and latencies, you can use that to save time, but always recheck the voltages after changing those.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 2, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> Use a higher SoC voltage to improve max DRAM frequency (along with RAM voltage), Max should be 1.25v, but I've never seen needing more than 1.15v. I use 1.00v for 3333MHz, might be good luck.
> Don't let the voltages on auto, these motherboards use some kind of table for "stable" values, and they use too much voltage.
> 
> Be lazy, I use XMP (2400 CL16), force 1.4v on DRAM (testing 1.35v), and 1v on SoC, then bump the DRAM frequency to 3155MHz (103x30,66). Some motherboards even have a "Try" option with preset frequencies and latencies, you can use that to save time, but always recheck the voltages after changing those.


Any programs i should download

and i don't think these stick i got will be able to go that high as i'll be using 4 totaling 32GB


----------



## GoldenX (Dec 2, 2018)

Not much, I use Ryzen Master only for vCore and multiplier changes on Windows, everything else I change it in BIOS. Maybe have AIDA64 to check memory bandwith and latency, so you make sure you are not degrading performance with too high latencies.


----------



## Vya Domus (Dec 2, 2018)

btarunr said:


> Tightened timings some more. Machine is now finally on par with reference benchmarks of 2700X measured on high-clock single-rank modules.
> 
> View attachment 111678
> 
> I'll start playing with PBO now to see how far we can go with Wraith Prism.



In your case you should really aim for lower latency even if it means dropping to 2400mhz.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 4, 2018)

Re-jiggered the fan layout in my case, seeing 65C max load with linpackXtreme, and spikes (single core) upto 4.5GHz


----------



## Super XP (Dec 4, 2018)

G.Skill TridentZ 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200
Has anybody tried playing around with these? I am wondering if I can possibly push them a little higher. Either tighten the timings or increase the speed a bit more. 
Curious to other results. My Ryzen is currently at stock speed. It kicks into Turbo, when needed.


----------



## YautjaLord (Dec 4, 2018)

Quick question: what track(s) should i use for benchmarks?  I got all bunch of them, from ACDC to Megadeth to Alice in Chains. Might as well use Royalty Free Metal tracks, just name them. Cheers.


----------



## Johan45 (Dec 4, 2018)

Super XP said:


> G.Skill TridentZ 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200
> Has anybody tried playing around with these? I am wondering if I can possibly push them a little higher. Either tighten the timings or increase the speed a bit more.
> Curious to other results. My Ryzen is currently at stock speed. It kicks into Turbo, when needed.



You might be able to do either but you're not going to go too far IMO. Just have dual rank Hynix at that speed is already good. I would start by tightening since I really don't feel you're going to get much more speed if any.


----------



## btarunr (Dec 4, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> In your case you should really aim for lower latency even if it means dropping to 2400mhz.



Just a little tighter.


----------



## Vya Domus (Dec 4, 2018)

I reckon the subtimings could go lower too.


----------



## Super XP (Dec 4, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> You might be able to do either but you're not going to go too far IMO. Just have dual rank Hynix at that speed is already good. I would start by tightening since I really don't feel you're going to get much more speed if any.


OK. 
I'll play around with it later today. Ty


----------



## Mussels (Dec 4, 2018)

left this up while gaming (pubg/forged alliance)
me likey the max clocks


----------



## EarthDog (Dec 5, 2018)

Mussels said:


> me likey the max clocks


Nice!

Was that sustained through the game or just a peak blip type thing? Are you overclocked? 

Look at that 970 Pro idling at 60C.. wowzas!


----------



## Mussels (Dec 5, 2018)

EarthDog said:


> Nice!
> 
> Was that sustained through the game or just a peak blip type thing? Are you overclocked?
> 
> Look at that 970 Pro idling at 60C.. wowzas!



peak clocks with stock turbo, low CPU temps + fan on VRMS

next up is to watercool the 1080 witgh a kraken G12


----------



## Johan45 (Dec 5, 2018)

Hate to be the bad guy but...Unless there's a special setting or you have OC'd the BCLK, that's likely a misread. The Ryzen won't typically OC past its max boost (4.35) without some type of outside influence. Try HWInfo64 and see if it reports the same.


----------



## EarthDog (Dec 5, 2018)

That is why I asked if he was overclocking... too good to be true.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 5, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Hate to be the bad guy but...Unless there's a special setting or you have OC'd the BCLK, that's likely a misread. The Ryzen won't typically OC past its max boost (4.35) without some type of outside influence. Try HWInfo64 and see if it reports the same.



running that now

oh and the 970 wasnt idling at 60C, thats its max temp when the GPU is at full load (its under the video card) - the 49C temp there is more usual for it.


----------



## EarthDog (Dec 5, 2018)

That's still toasty... I'd imagine we would see some throttling during sustained writes with a 50C idle (mine gets close from 39C) and surely if you are doing anything with it while gaming.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 5, 2018)

EarthDog said:


> That's still toasty... I'd imagine we would see some throttling during sustained writes with a 50C idle (mine gets close from 39C) and surely if you are doing anything with it while gaming.



nup, the 970 pro basically doesnt throttle - unlike the intel SSD that ran a shitton hotter (70C idle) and throttled all the time

When i watercool and vertical mount the GPU (or change to an x570 board) this issue will go away


----------



## EarthDog (Dec 5, 2018)

Its a black and white thing. Either you see it or you don't. 
Either way, cooler is better.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 5, 2018)

HWinfo looks like 4350Mhz max so far


----------



## Johan45 (Dec 5, 2018)

Mussels said:


> HWinfo looks like 4350Mhz max so far



That's about where it should be, HWinfo has been the most accurate for Ryzen in my experience the author pays close attention to it. I'm not sure your X370 board is even capable of boosting past that IIRC no PBO


----------



## Super XP (Dec 5, 2018)

Super XP said:


> G.Skill TridentZ 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200
> Has anybody tried playing around with these? I am wondering if I can possibly push them a little higher. Either tighten the timings or increase the speed a bit more.
> Curious to other results. My Ryzen is currently at stock speed. It kicks into Turbo, when needed.


OK I managed to tighten tRCD from 18 down to 17, tRP from 18 down to 17 and one other from 18 down to 17.
That gave me a slight bump in performance based on the UserBenchmark utility.

I also noticed that my CPU doesn't go into Turbo Mode or Boost Mode. Does anybody else have this issue? I thought it was going into it when needed, but apparently not...


----------



## Johan45 (Dec 5, 2018)

Are you still stock, no changes in BIOS aside from memory?


----------



## phanbuey (Dec 5, 2018)

is your OC disabling XFR? 

edit: johan beat me to it.


----------



## Super XP (Dec 5, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Are you still stock, no changes in BIOS aside from memory?


Yes all stock. Hmm, need to look and see if XFR is disabled or not. I'll look now and report back with my findings. Ty

I checked and everything is on AUTO in the Bios. Perhaps there's another benchmark that shows the CPU is hitting 3.80GHz boost speed. Anyhow, here's the UserBenchmark utility I ran. See how it shows 3.45GHz on average for Boost Clocks.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 6, 2018)

I love userbench









Note the intel SSD is in a PCI-E 2.0 slot, so its speed capped below its max speeds


----------



## GoldenX (Dec 6, 2018)

I have my RAM somewhere over 115%. Userbench is funny.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 6, 2018)

the % on the left is comparing to other people with the exact same hardware (same ram kit, for example) - the one on the right is showing an average based on your platform (motherboard)
In my case look at the intel SSD - its in the 30th percentile compared to itself, but its still 30% faster than the average on my 'platform'


----------



## Super XP (Dec 6, 2018)

Mussels said:


> the % on the left is comparing to other people with the exact same hardware (same ram kit, for example) - the one on the right is showing an average based on your platform (motherboard)
> In my case look at the intel SSD - its in the 30th percentile compared to itself, but its still 30% faster than the average on my 'platform'


Ah OK that explains it. 
Any suggestion as to why I am not going into Boost Speed when running the Benchmark?


----------



## Mussels (Dec 6, 2018)

BIOS settings are the only thing that'd stop that, manually setting P-states, multiplier, or some other setting that your mobo has linked (CnQ? Voltages? Bclk)


----------



## Super XP (Dec 6, 2018)

Mussels said:


> BIOS settings are the only thing that'd stop that, manually setting P-states, multiplier, or some other setting that your mobo has linked (CnQ? Voltages? Bclk)


I have CnQ enabled. And its weird, because in the bios it says the CPU vcore is 1.45v but everything is set to auto. In the section where it shows you it shows 1.35v. It also shows my CPU Temperature is 58C. Using a windows based sensor it shows the temp at least 10-12C lower.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 6, 2018)

all i can think of is update BIOS, reset BIOS, test on default optimised settings


----------



## Super XP (Dec 6, 2018)

Mussels said:


> all i can think of is update BIOS, reset BIOS, test on default optimised settings


OK 
Will do, though I have the newest Bios. I'll do a default settings and see what happens.


----------



## cdawall (Dec 6, 2018)

Trick is to get that number one spot on user bench. Lol

https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11844073


----------



## Super XP (Dec 7, 2018)

Well I tested out my Ram and pushed them further without touching the voltage. Everything else is on default. Tightened the Timings and bumped up DDR-3200 to DDR-3333. 





My UserBenchmark Ram score went up to 111% versus before it was around 107%.


----------



## Johan45 (Dec 8, 2018)

Looks good


----------



## Super XP (Dec 8, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Looks good


Thanks, 
I wonder if I should push the Ram a little bit more. 

OK so I tried out some configurations with my RAM. And found this to be stable. 




I tried setting the timings at 16-17-17-17-38-56 at DDR3400 but was unstable, despite booting into Windows with no issues. So I bumped up the settings to 16-18-18-18-38-56 (Default for the Ram) and its running smooth with a boost in performance. 

https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/12746607


----------



## Mussels (Dec 8, 2018)

what are people using to test ram OC? i keep finding 99% stable stuff that crashes games eventually


----------



## GoldenX (Dec 8, 2018)

Just normal usage. Seems to be better that stress tests.


----------



## cdawall (Dec 8, 2018)

Mussels said:


> what are people using to test ram OC? i keep finding 99% stable stuff that crashes games eventually



Loop 3dmark normally will pull most ram failures.


----------



## phanbuey (Dec 8, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> Just normal usage. Seems to be better that stress tests.



I agree - i've had giant excel vlooks ups crash instantly after passed 10 hour stress run... same with games, they will CTD and just do weird stuff right away.


The best for me has been to leave the box on with no crashes for a month.  It's 100% stable then - even the slightest instability will show with that much time.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 8, 2018)

bleh, thats what i want to avoid

the games i play arent happy with a crash and a restart, pubg is not forgiving like that


----------



## phanbuey (Dec 8, 2018)

Mussels said:


> bleh, thats what i want to avoid
> 
> the games i play arent happy with a crash and a restart, pubg is not forgiving like that



an excel 64 bit 900k row vlookup is my go to since it just shits the bed at the slightest.  It'll take ~4-5 minutes depending on how many records - you can do a 20 min multirow that just hammers ur ram (it's inefficient in a good way).

Ram is so tricky to stress test properly... time is really the best tester.


----------



## Super XP (Dec 8, 2018)

I topically use gaming to ensure stability. And the UserBenchmark utility, because unusual low performance shows system instability.


----------



## HTC (Dec 8, 2018)

Mussels said:


> what are people using to test ram OC? i keep finding 99% stable stuff that crashes games eventually



This dude uses custom prime 95 blend with high RAM allocation: seems to work even with dual rank RAM.

That topic is a rather large one and mostly doesn't apply to "normal OCing situations", since it goes beyond that, but has some useful information for timings / voltages.

The pics he posts are hard to read in a PC but perfectly readable when seen from cellphone, thanks to zooming.

@btarunr : since you have dual rank RAM, suggest you check it out as well as it may have some tips for your particular timing / stability situation.


----------



## Super XP (Dec 8, 2018)

Mussels said:


> bleh, thats what i want to avoid
> 
> the games i play arent happy with a crash and a restart, pubg is not forgiving like that


The worst part is when you are doing so well or you are in a crucial stand off in game,  then all of a sudden it crashes. Lol, that's equivalent to


----------



## Mussels (Dec 8, 2018)

i play forged alliance campaign when bored (takes a lot less time at +6 speed) so i can lose 2-3 hours of 'game time' with a single crash, due to lack of auto save or checkpoints


----------



## Super XP (Dec 8, 2018)

Mussels said:


> i play forged alliance campaign when bored (takes a lot less time at +6 speed) so i can lose 2-3 hours of 'game time' with a single crash, due to lack of auto save or checkpoints


Wow 2 to 3 hours. That's a lot. I play PREY, DOOM and the entire Metro  series. The only online game I dabble with is currently L4D2. So for me crashes are annoying but doesn't lose time 4me.

Metro on ultra high at 2K 144Hz used to TAX my late FX 8350,  now with my Ryzen, it plays much Smoother.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 8, 2018)

a single mission in the game (not theres only like 6 levels, so they're meant to be long) can take around 4 hours at +0 speed

When the game came out i had a core 2 quad Q6600, and we'd see -4 during MP matches lol
These days i can smash it out at +5 and get some nostalgia without the time sink


----------



## Super XP (Dec 8, 2018)

Very Nice.
And this game was released in 2011? 
Ryzen made a huge difference in PC Gaming. I now see how nice my 2K 144Hz monitor looks like in game. No stutters no nothing.

UserBenchmarks: Game 76%, Desk 94%, Work 99%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 1700X - *87.9%*
GPU: AMD RX 580 - *74.7%*
SSD: Corsair Force MP500 NVMe PCIe M.2 480GB - *156.5%*
SSD: Corsair Force 3 180GB - *53.9%*
HDD: WD Green 1TB (2010) - *58.6%*
RAM: G.SKILL Trident Z DDR4 3200 C16 2x16GB - *108.2%*
MBD: Asrock X370 Gaming X


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Dec 8, 2018)

Super XP said:


> Thanks,
> I wonder if I should push the Ram a little bit more.
> 
> OK so I tried out some configurations with my RAM. And found this to be stable.
> ...


That's where i have settled at exactly with the same timings @3400 and its been stable for me ,any higher or tighter has slight issues 115% userbench


----------



## Super XP (Dec 8, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> That's where i have settled at exactly with the same timings @3400 and its been stable for me ,any higher or tighter has slight issues 115% userbench


I set it up at 3200 with 16-17-17-17 to see the score vs. 3400 with 16-18-18-18. Both seem to have similar performance.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 8, 2018)

new update for my board is out with agesa 1.0.0.6, it also fixed the broken/laggy lighting on my RGB ram

feelsgoodman.jpg


----------



## Hockster (Dec 9, 2018)

UserBenchmarks: Game 155%, Desk 141%, Work 145%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 2700X - *103.3%*
GPU: Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti - *210.3%*
SSD: Samsung 970 Evo NVMe PCIe M.2 500GB - *269.9%*
SSD: Samsung 850 Evo 500GB - *132.1%*
SSD: Samsung 850 Evo 1TB - *132.4%*
SSD: Samsung 860 Evo 1TB - *130.3%*
RAM: Corsair CMW16GX4M2C3200C16 4x8GB - *96.7%*
MBD: Asus ROG CROSSHAIR VII HERO



Mussels said:


> new update for my board is out with agesa 1.0.0.6, it also fixed the broken/laggy lighting on my RGB ram
> 
> feelsgoodman.jpg



And the Asus update with the new Agesa broke my ram communication with iCUE.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 9, 2018)

something went weird with the new icue, i lost all RGB ram support until i reflashed the BIOS

maybe update icue to the latest build, and reflash again?


----------



## Hockster (Dec 9, 2018)

I had the latest version of icue when I flashed the BIOS. That's when it broke. Asus forums has a few reports of the C7H breaking the ram control with the new BIOS. But Corsair adding in hardware lighting profile did seem to cause a lot of issues. I'll take the loss of ram lighting over the horrible unicorn vomit that was forced on us at startup/shutdown though.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 9, 2018)

the latest one that just came out, added hardware lighting to a bunch of new devices and broke/fixed everything for me


----------



## Hockster (Dec 9, 2018)

I finally didn't have any issues with a version of icue until I upgraded BIOS. Figures.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 9, 2018)

3.10.125, to be clear. its brand spanking new and causing as many issues as it fixes, but its given hardware lighting control for my node pro, so i can save effects to it that work on startup - in my case i went with flat white, but you could also save an 'off' profile and go dark on exit which is nice


----------



## Hockster (Dec 9, 2018)

That's the one. It was released a day before I did my BIOS. I did a lot of messing around in icue on that version setting hardware profiles and whatnot. I know definitely my ram was detected in icue before the flash.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 9, 2018)

i found a few buried away settings in the "AMD CBS" stuff in the BIOS and fiddled, so check if they help you

Main three i changed (not 100% on wording)
DDR4 power down (disabled)
Geardown mode (disabled)
DDR4 SPD read (Something) (auto)

If you have SPD write as an option, make sure its enabled. My board doesnt have that, but people were saying it was a needed function for the hardware lighting.


----------



## Hockster (Dec 9, 2018)

I'll poke my nose in there. but I suspect Asus will have different names.

Edit: Found the first two settings and made the changes, but couldn't find anything similar to DDR SPD read anywhere. But still no lighting control.


----------



## Hockster (Dec 10, 2018)

I flashed back to the 1002 BIOS and my ram is back in icue.


----------



## Johan45 (Dec 10, 2018)

Mussels said:


> what are people using to test ram OC? i keep finding 99% stable stuff that crashes games eventually





HTC said:


> This dude uses custom prime 95 blend with high RAM allocation: seems to work even with dual rank RAM.
> 
> That topic is a rather large one and mostly doesn't apply to "normal OCing situations", since it goes beyond that, but has some useful information for timings / voltages.
> 
> ...




I didn't read the link but that's what I do, 2-3 hours P95 with 75% of ram set, then when that's done I'll add in heaven on a loop for another couple of hours. So far no crashes in well over a yaer


----------



## HTC (Dec 10, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> I didn't read the link but that's what I do, 2-3 hours P95 with 75% of ram set, then when that's done I'll add in heaven on a loop for another couple of hours. So far no crashes in well over a yaer



When he's using 32GB RAM, he uses around 29GB for prime 95 (IIRC), so that's quite a bit more than 75%, but i dunno the exact ratio he uses and i can't check the link right now: dunno why.

The dude in question is Chew*, from XtremeSystems forums: a well respected professional AMD overclocker.

I also remember him doing similar but actually using both simultaneously on a loop for quite large amount of time periods, for stability testing (usually 24 hours): remember it from one of his videos.


----------



## Johan45 (Dec 10, 2018)

At 29 GB that would put him in the 90% range but the method is sound, at least for me. I do believe with the all the IO on die that the CPU needs more than just standard testing. With the addition of heaven it hits more systems than just RAM and CPU also gives a good idea of temps after a sustained run.


----------



## GoldenX (Dec 10, 2018)

Handbrake managed some really high temps for me when overclocking.


----------



## HTC (Dec 10, 2018)

Here's a video of chew* doing 3200MHz RAM 4*8GB with *mismatched SPDs* on a CH6 board using a Ryzen 1400: notice the date the video was posted.

During the video, he shows his settings 1st but later goes to defaults to show how to get to the settings he had previously.

Here's another video using 32GB RAM, this time with a Taichi board. Again, notice the date the video was posted.


----------



## Arrakis9 (Dec 10, 2018)

Mussels said:


> what are people using to test ram OC? i keep finding 99% stable stuff that crashes games eventually



HCI memtest with an automated script:

https://www.overclock.net/forum/18051-memory/1703708-automating-hci-memtest-no-more-frustration.html

I'll usually run that to 200% to make sure basic stability is a non issue then follow up with some high FPS/heavy cpu bound games such as counterstrike or team fortress 2

I actually just upgraded to agesa 1.0.0.6 and am in the process of re tuning my ram hoping to actually get 3333 or 3466 fully stable this time.


----------



## Hockster (Dec 11, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> Handbrake managed some really high temps for me when overclocking.



I use Handbrake for my stability tests. If my rig survives 45-60 minutes of 100% it's stable enough for me. That's as much stress as I ever put on it.


----------



## Super XP (Dec 13, 2018)

UserBenchmarks: Game 76%, Desk 96%, Work 103%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 1700X - *87.6%*
GPU: AMD RX 580 - *73.3%*
SSD: Corsair Force MP500 NVMe PCIe M.2 480GB - *160.9%*
SSD: Corsair Force 3 180GB - *52.2%*
HDD: Seagate Backup+ Desktop 4TB - *98.4%*
HDD: WD Green 1TB (2010) - *54.8%*
RAM: G.SKILL Trident Z DDR4 3200 C16 2x16GB - *112.9%*
MBD: Asrock X370 Gaming X

Despite the 76% for Game, to me anyway, it feels more like 90% up to 100% for Game. 
Now running my RAM at DDR4 - 3333 at 16-18-18-18 with voltage on auto. I find this performs better than 16-17-17-17, which tells me there was some stability issues, because I keep voltage on auto. 
The UserBenchmark also shows a higher score.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 14, 2018)

Super XP said:


> UserBenchmarks: Game 76%, Desk 96%, Work 103%
> CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 1700X - *87.6%*
> GPU: AMD RX 580 - *73.3%*
> SSD: Corsair Force MP500 NVMe PCIe M.2 480GB - *160.9%*
> ...


How did you pull those


----------



## Super XP (Dec 14, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> How did you pull those


There's an option to copy and paste for Forums. Toward the bottom of the page in UserBenchmark.


----------



## Johan45 (Dec 15, 2018)

I was curious how mine would do. This is my HTPC/Gamer/24/7 machine. WOW those old spinners really drag things down ha ha

UserBenchmarks: Game 81%, Desk 93%, Work 88%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 - *101.5%*
GPU: AMD RX 580 - *79.1%*
SSD: Corsair Neutron XT 480GB - *92.9%*
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 500GB - *75%*
HDD: Seagate ST3250620AS 250GB - *40.9%*
RAM: G.SKILL F4 DDR4 3600 C17 2x8GB - *120.2%*
MBD: Asus CROSSHAIR VI HERO

Thought I'd post something we don't see very often, benchmarking the 2400G


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 16, 2018)

The build begins












I


----------



## Super XP (Dec 16, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> I was curious how mine would do. This is my HTPC/Gamer/24/7 machine. WOW those old spinners really drag things down ha ha
> 
> UserBenchmarks: Game 81%, Desk 93%, Work 88%
> CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 - *101.5%*
> ...


Have to agree. Hard Drives make a huge difference whether it be positive or negative. I'm planning to get another M.2 Drive strictly for game installations. To keep them off my main M.2 Windows drive.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 16, 2018)

Alright I got my rig somewhat together but not complete

I got it booted into the BIOs and under HW Monitor it shows the CPU @55*C. Is that normal under the BIOs as I would assume under BIOs there should be no load on the CPU.

CPU is a Ryzen 7 1700X and Cooler is a Corsair  H70


----------



## Hockster (Dec 17, 2018)

Not bad in the BIOS, there's always a small load on the CPU in the BIOS.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 17, 2018)

power saving functions dont work in the BIOS, so BIOS temps are often quite similar to mild load


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 17, 2018)

This is what it gets under Windows 10


----------



## GoldenX (Dec 17, 2018)

I was testing a nice bonus on my board, an overvoltage jumper. Not needed, but fun anyway.
I have set the fans in a lineal setup going from 40º to 60º, from 25% to 100%. Most of the time I'm at 39º. Wraith Stealth, the little heatsink that could (on a 65w CPU).


----------



## biffzinker (Dec 17, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> This is what it gets under Windows 10
> 
> View attachment 112732


Seems high with AIO watercooler just for idling but could be related to room temperature?


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 17, 2018)

biffzinker said:


> Seems high with AIO watercooler just for idling but could be related to room temperature?


AIO is a H70 with a single fan

Ambient Temp is about 77*F


----------



## biffzinker (Dec 17, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> AIO is a H70 with a single fan
> 
> Ambient Temp is about 77*F


My room temperature is 65F, and the Ryzen 5 2600X idles at 30/35C using air cooler with single supplied fan from Scythe.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 17, 2018)

Fan setup matters a lot with those, cold intake vs hot exhaust, fan RPM, etc all make a pretty big difference


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 17, 2018)

Mussels said:


> Fan setup matters a lot with those, cold intake vs hot exhaust, fan RPM, etc all make a pretty big difference


It’s setup as a exhaust

Single 120mm fan exhausting through the rad at @1600RPM non pwn. As of now there’s also no other fans in the case but it is wide open.

Update

This is after running prime95 small FFT


----------



## Johan45 (Dec 17, 2018)

Looks like speccy might be picking up the offset. I prefer using HWInfo64 for Ryzen. Seems to be the most reliable and it's updated quite frequently


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 17, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Looks like speccy might be picking up the offset. I prefer using HWInfo64 for Ryzen. Seems to be the most reliable and it's updated quite frequently


I kind of figured that or that it was outdated

So now i'm trying to tweak the RAM, currently its at 2666MHz but i can't seem to go any higher. I'm using 4x8GB Sticks that are Hynix A-Die.


----------



## infrared (Dec 17, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> now i'm trying to tweak the RAM, currently its at 2666MHz but i can't seem to go any higher. I'm using 4x8GB Sticks that are Hynix A-Die.


Might be worth having a look at the Ryzen dram calculator that'll help you get all the timings set up and should gain you a bit of stability. 

Try increasing the SoC voltage as well if you haven't already, give it a small bump and see if that helps. You shouldn't need more than 1.15v so if you haven't seen an improvement by that point try something else.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 17, 2018)

infrared said:


> Might be worth having a look at the Ryzen dram calculator


I have it

Tried using it. Settings it churned out resulted in PC not booting. Still tinkering 

So far haven’t had any good results.


----------



## infrared (Dec 17, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> I have it
> 
> Tried using it. Settings it churned out resulted in PC not booting. Still tinkering
> 
> So far haven’t had any good results.


Ah that's frustrating :/ that might be as far as you can go with 32gb of Hynix with a first gen ryzen. Good luck though, hopefully you can get a bit more out of it


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 17, 2018)

infrared said:


> Ah that's frustrating :/ that might be as far as you can go with 32gb of Hynix with a first gen ryzen. Good luck though, hopefully you can get a bit more out of it


I can't even get the DRAM calculator to import the RAM data. I'm fine with 2666MHz but i don't think it's stable and the timings suck. prime95 after 2hrs resulted in 1 error 

This the RAM data


----------



## Johan45 (Dec 17, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> I can't even get the DRAM calculator to import the RAM data. I'm fine with 2666MHz but i don't think it's stable and the timings suck. prime95 after 2hrs resulted in 1 error
> 
> This the RAM data
> 
> ...





infrared said:


> Ah that's frustrating :/ that might be as far as you can go with 32gb of Hynix with a first gen ryzen. Good luck though, hopefully you can get a bit more out of it


Yeah that Hynix "A" is tough to stabilize from what I have seen and the fella that made the DRAM calculator focused mainly on Samsung AFIK.
Find the ryzen timing checker and maybe post your timings up. We might be able to offer suggestions to loosen a few things and get a bit more speed. It's worth a shot


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 17, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Yeah that Hynix "A" is tough to stabilize from what I have seen and the fella that made the DRAM calculator focused mainly on Samsung AFIK.
> Find the ryzen timing checker and maybe post your timings up. We might be able to offer suggestions to loosen a few things and get a bit more speed. It's worth a shot


----------



## GoldenX (Dec 17, 2018)

Go 18-20-20-20-36 and try higher clocks. Use a 1-1.15v SoC voltage and 1.35-1.4v dRAM voltage.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 17, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> Go 18-20-20-20-36 and try higher clocks. Use a 1-1.15v SoC voltage and 1.35-1.4v dRAM voltage.


Would soc have a different name


----------



## biffzinker (Dec 17, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> I was curious how mine would do. This is my HTPC/Gamer/24/7 machine. WOW those old spinners really drag things down ha ha
> 
> UserBenchmarks: Game 81%, Desk 93%, Work 88%
> CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 - *101.5%*
> ...


UserBenchmarks: Game 72%, Desk 95%, Work 85%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600X - *101%*
GPU: AMD RX 480 - *69.7%*
SSD: Samsung 850 Evo 250GB - *123%*
SSD: SanDisk Ultra II 480GB - *106.1%*
SSD: PNY SSD2SC120G1CS1754D117-551 120GB - *89.3%*
RAM: Unknown 8GBF1X08QFHH36-135-K 2x8GB - *118%*
MBD: MSI B350M GAMING PRO (MS-7A39)


----------



## GoldenX (Dec 17, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> Would soc have a different name


Can you post a screenshot of your bios' voltage options?


----------



## biffzinker (Dec 17, 2018)

Looked at the manual for your board but the screenshots in the manual are of no help.


----------



## cdawall (Dec 18, 2018)

I'll have to look what mine are. I'm stuck at 29xx with the current agesa though. Timings I'm using are good to 3400-3600ish


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 18, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> Can you post a screenshot of your bios' voltage options?


Will do




biffzinker said:


> Looked at the manual for your board but the screenshots in the manual are of no help.


The BIOs itself is no help 



cdawall said:


> I'll have to look what mine are. I'm stuck at 29xx with the current agesa though. Timings I'm using are good to 3400-3600ish


i have agesa 1.0.0.5 not 1.0.0.6


----------



## cdawall (Dec 18, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> i have agesa 1.0.0.5 not 1.0.0.6



I have no idea what mines on. It didn't clock as high as I wanted so it frustrated me. I should be at 600pts higher on CB15 if the ram clocked correctly.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 18, 2018)

cdawall said:


> I have no idea what mines on. It didn't clock as high as I wanted so it frustrated me. I should be at 600pts higher on CB15 if the ram clocked correctly.


This is what i get in Cinebench 11.5

CPU @3.9GHz and RAM at 2666MHz 19-19-19-32 (32GB-4x8GB Hynix)








Durvelle27 said:


> This is what i get in Cinebench 11.5
> 
> CPU @3.9GHz and RAM at 2666MHz 19-19-19-32 (32GB-4x8GB Hynix)


I just gave in on trying any higher. Just going to try tweaking timing. I know how hard it is to achieve high clocks with 4 sticks let alone 4 sticks that are dual rank.


----------



## Hockster (Dec 18, 2018)

You should update the app.


----------



## biffzinker (Dec 18, 2018)

Hockster said:


> You should update the app.


Ditto, update to Cinebench R15, and adjust your date/time from Oct. 31, 2018.


----------



## ratirt (Dec 18, 2018)

I need to look how far I can push my memory modules with the board I have. Read few articles from users going as high as 3600 with these flare x modules. Maybe it would go even higher if you loosen the timings.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 18, 2018)

Hockster said:


> You should update the app.





biffzinker said:


> Ditto, update to Cinebench R15, and adjust your date/time from Oct. 31, 2018.


This is with the newer R15

I do have things running in the background though


----------



## Kursah (Dec 18, 2018)

Looks like Asus released 4207 two days ago for my Strix X370-F Gaming. Agesa 1.0.0.6 and some Radeon compatibility stuff. 

Looks like I'll be upgrading from the modded 4201 to this as well. The extra tweaking features didn't seem to net me anything with the modded BIOS so no big deal to move on from it back to OEM.

Link for any other owners of this board:

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/ROG-STRIX-X370-F-GAMING/HelpDesk_BIOS/


----------



## robot zombie (Dec 18, 2018)

Kursah said:


> Looks like Asus released 4207 two days ago for my Strix X370-F Gaming. Agesa 1.0.0.6 and some Radeon compatibility stuff.
> 
> Looks like I'll be upgrading from the modded 4201 to this as well. The extra tweaking features didn't seem to net me anything with the modded BIOS so no big deal to move on from it back to OEM.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Been waiting a while for this. Almost thought theyd never get to it!


----------



## Kursah (Dec 18, 2018)

Me too! I was relieved I refreshed that tab on my phone today...I almost closed it last week lol. Shame they don't offer some sort of email announcement for released firmware.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 18, 2018)

Kursah said:


> Me too! I was relieved I refreshed that tab on my phone today...I almost closed it last week lol. Shame they don't offer some sort of email announcement for released firmware.


What does 1.0.0.6 bring


----------



## robot zombie (Dec 18, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> What does 1.0.0.6 bring


Official support for memory clock parameters up to 4000mhz with finer increments between. More timings unlocked. All around better memory compatibility and performance. Few little virtualization goodies. Probably some other good stuff Im forgetting too. It was a majorly important update, and some boards havent had it for some time.



Kursah said:


> Me too! I was relieved I refreshed that tab on my phone today...I almost closed it last week lol. Shame they don't offer some sort of email announcement for released firmware.


Haha I did that for quite a while before but I gave up. Itd be cool if it would just check when you load into the bios.


----------



## Johan45 (Dec 18, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> What does 1.0.0.6 bring



From what I have seen on the CHVI/II most users are getting another 50-100 MHz on RAM (samsung). IMO if you're good and stable as is there's not much to gain


----------



## YautjaLord (Dec 18, 2018)

Lo & behold, the death is upon us. Well me, but you get my point.  I present you - T1000, please welcome, Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut:




I thought it will be slight headache, but this.... What can i say, there's 1st time for everything?  Bought from Newegg, always nice to know the internet store ships things to your country. Alcohol pads good to wipe out not just this TIM, but basically any TIM? Cheers. Life is good.


----------



## Kursah (Dec 18, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> What does 1.0.0.6 bring



What @robot zombie and @Johan45 said. 

Here's some reading material if you're interested, 1.0.0.6 has been out for a while, but is finally catching on, at least with some MFG's that were falling behind (like Asus):


https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2017/05/25/community-update-4-lets-talk-dram
https://www.techpowerup.com/233730/...1-0-0-6-supports-up-to-4000-mhz-memory-clocks
https://www.eteknix.com/amd-agesa-1-0-0-6-update-improves-ryzen-dram-support/
https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/amd_details_their_new_ryzen_agesa_1_0_0_6_update/1

But really robot summarized it nicely! I don't know if I'll try to push my RAM any further, but I just might to see if I can accomplish any better. Samsung b-die 3200 CL15 @ CL14 at the moment, and stable. But if I could get tighter timings, and maybe a speed bump that'd be awesome!

Honestly I am hoping to see the ability to raise BCLK to 105 w/o going into OC mode. Probably a pipe dream with this board, but I haven't lost hope yet...faded, but not lost.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 18, 2018)

Kursah said:


> What @robot zombie and @Johan45 said.
> 
> Here's some reading material if you're interested, 1.0.0.6 has been out for a while, but is finally catching on, at least with some MFG's that were falling behind (like Asus):
> 
> ...


I think mine maybe on 1.0.0.6 for summit ridge but since I’m just now adopting Ryzen I couldn’t even comment on the different agesa versions but I do know i’m Sad that my ram is limited to 2666MHz


----------



## Kursah (Dec 18, 2018)

AGESA versions are usually posted in the BIOS/Firmware notes. So your board is a ASRock B350 Pro4, so I Google'd that board, found the BIOS page:  https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/AB350 Pro4/index.asp#BIOS

So looking at BIOS 5.10 released on 10/18/2018, it states 1.0.0.5 PinnaclePI-AM4. So doesn't look like you have AGESA 1.0.0.6 yet. You can see a previous verison, 4.90 from 7/12/2018 that released with 1.0.0.2a. 

Researching what each AGESA version offers, and your MB and it's BIOS versions will get you some more answers on this. I was still learning about it when I went over to Ryzen about a month ago. The AMD link in my last post explains what AGESA stands for as well. Check it out. Good info.


----------



## HTC (Dec 18, 2018)

Kursah said:


> AGESA versions are usually posted in the BIOS/Firmware notes. So your board is a ASRock B350 Pro4, so I Google'd that board, found the BIOS page:  https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/AB350 Pro4/index.asp#BIOS
> 
> So looking at BIOS 5.10 released on 10/18/2018, *it states 1.0.0.5 PinnaclePI-AM4*.* So doesn't look like you have AGESA 1.0.0.6 yet*. You can see a previous verison, 4.90 from 7/12/2018 that released with 1.0.0.2a.



You may be a bit confused. According to the BIOS page for my board (X370 taichi, in pic attached), Agesa 1.0.0.6 and and PinnaclePI-AM4 1.0.0.5 are completely different.



With my board, BIOS 2.4 brings AGESA 1.0.0.6 but PinnaclePI 1.0.0.1a starts from BIOS 4.60.

Are you talking about Pinnacle BIOS or pre-Pinnacle BIOS?


----------



## ne6togadno (Dec 18, 2018)

x470 taichi also got bios update yesterday
https://asrock.com/support/index.asp?cat=BIOS
no clue what 1.0.0.4 patch C means


----------



## Kursah (Dec 18, 2018)

HTC said:


> You may be a bit confused. According to the BIOS page for my board (X370 taichi, in pic attached), Agesa 1.0.0.6 and and PinnaclePI-AM4 1.0.0.5 are completely different.
> 
> View attachment 112852
> 
> ...



Yep you're right I was mis-interpreting what I saw with ASRock's page between AGESA and post-PinnaclePI, which started at 4.7 for the AB350 Pro4. It does look like that board for @Durvelle27 has had AGESA 1.0.0.6 since 3.20 in 9/2017. Crazy it took Asus until 12/2018 to get it on my X370!!!


----------



## ne6togadno (Dec 18, 2018)

on the other hand 9m later asrock's x470 fagship mb is at agesa 1.0.0.4


----------



## HTC (Dec 18, 2018)

ne6togadno said:


> on the other hand 9m later asrock's x470 fagship mb is at *agesa 1.0.0.4*



PinnaclePI or pre-PinnaclePI?

Don't confuse the two.

EDIT

OTOH, in the beta section it states with Beta 1.36A:



> Update AGESA 1.0.0.2 Patch C



When this board only uses PinnaclePI BIOSes ..., so there's that ...


----------



## ne6togadno (Dec 18, 2018)

4.Update PinnaclePI-AM4_1.0.0.4 Patch C
edit: pfu bloody mess. 1.0.0.4 patch C is latest agesa for ryzen 2XXX 
1.0.0.6 is latest for ryzen 1XXX
so asrock are actually up to date with their ryzen+ mbs


----------



## HTC (Dec 18, 2018)

ne6togadno said:


> 4.Update PinnaclePI-AM4_1.0.0.4 Patch C
> edit: pfu bloody mess. 1.0.0.4 patch C is latest agesa for ryzen 2XXX
> *1.0.0.6 is latest for ryzen 1XXX
> so asrock are actually up to date with their ryzen+ mbs*



AFAIK, 1.0.0.6B is the latest for Ryzen 1000 series.

@Kursah was mentioning PinnaclePI 1.0.0.5: i've yet to see that one for my board.

My board has had version 1.0.0.4 since August 30th.


----------



## Kursah (Dec 18, 2018)

Yep for the ASRock B350 Pro4: https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/AB350 Pro4/index.asp#BIOS


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 18, 2018)

Kursah said:


> Yep for the ASRock B350 Pro4: https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/AB350 Pro4/index.asp#BIOS


Thanks

I noticed it says agesa update but no memory change.


Anybody in here own a ASRock board if so. Where can I find the Soc voltage. The manual is no help.


----------



## cdawall (Dec 19, 2018)

I have an asrock board


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 19, 2018)

cdawall said:


> I have an asrock board


Where can I find the soc voltage. I want to try an increase to see if that helps with achieving higher RAM clocks


----------



## GoldenX (Dec 19, 2018)

Please list your voltage options, or take a picture.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 19, 2018)

Rig is finallly 100% complete and it turned out great


----------



## Kursah (Dec 19, 2018)

Seems PBO was removed from 4207 official, was able to set 3200 CL14 same as before w/o issue. Loaded modded 4207, got PBO back and am seeing 4.35GHz single core boost and more 4.2. Can't say I notice any differences TBH. But I also haven't had time to mess around or push beyond known good settings. Been busy prepping my boys' builds for xmas (specs in sig).


----------



## Johan45 (Dec 19, 2018)

@Durvelle27 
Had a look at your BIOS from a manual and from those pics looks like you have very few options. I didn't even see where you could change the multi. If things are different in a "manual" mode or something then you'll need to post some pics of your BIOS.


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## Durvelle27 (Dec 20, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> @Durvelle27
> Had a look at your BIOS from a manual and from those pics looks like you have very few options. I didn't even see where you could change the multi. If things are different in a "manual" mode or something then you'll need to post some pics of your BIOS.


I'll do it later today once i have time to sit down

Something a little weird to me or maybe Ryzen is just different than all the previous arcs i've used. I have a Ryzen 7 1700X which has a max XFR of 3.9GHz. Instead though i manually overclocked it to a consistent 3.9GHz and now under full load i noticed it actaully now boosts upto 4GHz on all cores. I've never seen a CPU boost above a manual OC


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Dec 20, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> I'll do it later today once i have time to sit down
> 
> Something a little weird to me or maybe Ryzen is just different than all the previous arcs i've used. I have a Ryzen 7 1700X which has a max XFR of 3.9GHz. Instead though i manually overclocked it to a consistent 3.9GHz and now under full load i noticed it actaully now boosts upto 4GHz on all cores. I've never seen a CPU boost above a manual OC
> 
> View attachment 112959


Probably accounted for by sensor accuracy and the fact base clock(100hz) actually varies.


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## Vya Domus (Dec 20, 2018)

I think it's just an error in monitoring the clocks. PBO should be off.


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## Durvelle27 (Dec 20, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> I think it's just an error in monitoring the clocks. PBO should be off.


1st Gen Ryzen doesn't have PBO

PBO was introduced with 2nd Gen


----------



## Vya Domus (Dec 20, 2018)

Xfr not pbo , it should still be off.


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## Johan45 (Dec 20, 2018)

A


Durvelle27 said:


> I'll do it later today once i have time to sit down
> 
> Something a little weird to me or maybe Ryzen is just different than all the previous arcs i've used. I have a Ryzen 7 1700X which has a max XFR of 3.9GHz. Instead though i manually overclocked it to a consistent 3.9GHz and now under full load i noticed it actaully now boosts upto 4GHz on all cores. I've never seen a CPU boost above a manual OC
> 
> View attachment 112959


Are you using HWMonitor HWinfo64


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## Durvelle27 (Dec 20, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> A
> 
> Are you using HWMonitor HWinfo64


I use CPUz, HWMonitor, and HWinfo helps gauge accuracy


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## Johan45 (Dec 20, 2018)

Typically it's best to use one or the other, don't need multiple programs pinging the sensor that can cause issues. HWInfo has consistently worked the best for Ryzen in my experience


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## Kursah (Dec 20, 2018)

I find HWInfo to be the most accurate too, generally use it in most situations. HWInfo however I'll use on older systems. CPU-z only to verify. OCCT, AsusROG, CinibenchR15 and Unigine stress tests for stability. 

Got the rear IO panel for my MB (bought used, didn't include it), shipped from the Netherlands and made it sooner than expected! I've been waiting to reseat my HS anyways...I did a rush job installing the MB back when I got it in mid-November...wondering if I can get better temps out of it and maintain 4.35GHz single and 4.2 all cores a little longer. Maybe...maybe not. 

The modded 4207 has been solid, definitely curious that 4207 official removes PBO seeing that it works as intended with my 2700X. I haven't tried pushing my RAM any harder. So far as stable as I was before!


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## Durvelle27 (Dec 20, 2018)

Johan45 said:


> Typically it's best to use one or the other, don't need multiple programs pinging the sensor that can cause issues. HWInfo has consistently worked the best for Ryzen in my experience


I mainly was testing as i had one program that showed twice as high temps as another program i had but i prefer Hwinfo64



Kursah said:


> I find HWInfo to be the most accurate too, generally use it in most situations. HWInfo however I'll use on older systems. CPU-z only to verify. OCCT, AsusROG, CinibenchR15 and Unigine stress tests for stability.
> 
> Got the rear IO panel for my MB (bought used, didn't include it), shipped from the Netherlands and made it sooner than expected! I've been waiting to reseat my HS anyways...I did a rush job installing the MB back when I got it in mid-November...wondering if I can get better temps out of it and maintain 4.35GHz single and 4.2 all cores a little longer. Maybe...maybe not.
> 
> The modded 4207 has been solid, definitely curious that 4207 official removes PBO seeing that it works as intended with my 2700X. I haven't tried pushing my RAM any harder. So far as stable as I was before!


I used Prime95 for stability testing


----------



## Kursah (Dec 20, 2018)

Prime's still a solid option, I keep it handy but rarely use it anymore as I prefer OCCT.-

I usually start out with OCCT Linpack, with and without AVX, using all logical cores (if you have logical cores), 90% memory usage, etc. If it makes it through that, then I do the VGA test (depending on if I did anything with the VGA, I've also seen this test root out unstable CPU OC's and undervoltage situations as it only ever partially loads the CPU), then if that passes, I go to the PSU test which runs both Linpack and the GPU test. If it survives that, I generally move onto Asus ROG Realbench (Stress test) and Cinebench. That's been my stability routine or close to it for years, still does the trick too.


----------



## robot zombie (Dec 22, 2018)

Kursah said:


> Crazy it took Asus until 12/2018 to get it on my X370!!!


Yeaah they caught a lot of flack for that. For whatever reason they couldn't keep up with it. Lots of people talking on their forums, but not a lot coming back. No time frames or anything. Most of the boards they released were solid, but the lack of timely BIOS updates was gimping a lot of otherwise decent mid/upper-mid range boards. Some had it a lot worse than others, especially in the RAM department. And it sucked because you would look at the board's designs and components and some of them were just okay, but most, like our board was actually all-around solid. In terms of quality of components and design it's probably one of the best in its class. Doesn't have all of the top features but for the money you get something that's built to perform and last. But, like... that BIOS man! WHY? I guess it works well enough but it's been perpetually lost to time.

That, to me, has been Ryzen's biggest achille's heel from the jump... ...motherboards. From weak VRM's, to crummy BIOSes, poor compatibility, messy feature implementation and adaptation. It's getting a lot better now, but I'm sure that's been a big deterrent for a lot of people. Made it hard to recommend to anyone who wanted something that would just work, though the more patient of us saw signs of things to come. Boards are finally getting to a point where very few of them will really hold back performance in any meaningful way. I guess the upside to sticking to a platform across generations is that even old boards continue to improve over time. I think it's just that nobody expected their AMD boards to be so important this time around. Nobody in the market was ready for Ryzen to take off like it did, so the mobos didn't get the same treatment that would be standard with Intel counterparts. It was only after they caught on that they realized there was actually potential and ramped up the effort/resources. Everything has happened so fast. It was a matter of just months before things really came together.

I'm just happy to see them actually making some progress with my board, man.  So far nothing has changed for me since the swap, which is good, because I haven't changed anything  I'm holding off until after Christmas. Drop a 970 Evo in there, do a little refresh and start playing with RAM again. I've been wanting to try for 3333/14 fully stable again and see what kind of manual CPU OC will work with that. I know I can do 3466/16 all day. I want to see if the BIOS update really helps much with getting the stability with tighter timings. Sometimes it feels like I hit some walls where I shouldn't. Like certain combinations just don't work no matter what I do, even having gotten more technically demanding, if not under-performing ones to float just fine. That could really be anything. Might even just be hardware limitations. Just feels like the RAM has a little more in it, and it wants to.

Either way, I gotta say I don't find myself tempted to tinker much with this build these days. I have the time, but I feel like I've hit a good point with it and I've already put in so much time. It's been fun, but any gains at this point are personal brownie points. Save for a few quirks I've been continually impressed as I've gone along. Ryzen+ has been a fun and rewarding line to tinker with, for sure. I've done a handful now and it's always been an interesting learning experience. They haven't let anybody down yet, either. All of my personal builds throughout history have been AMD, but in a lot of ways it's been a different beast for me. Most of my builds have been done for other people, and it's almost always been Intel, if not by request, then recommendation. Not much seems to change as far as setting those up goes, and I've had many more chances to learn about them. I feel like I could go right back into it pretty quickly. You always know what you're getting and how/where. I fact I had initially planned to make my reentry into the hobby with an Intel build, but right then Ryzen came into the picture and I was intrigued. Suddenly it makes real sense to go with them again. It gave me some new little challenges to sink my teeth into. Slightly different parameters and a little character. They're kinda feisty. I felt completely out of my element starting off. It was great. A lot of things were easier than they've ever been, but there's still a lot you kinda gotta just know, and a lot of potential was yet unseen and locked away. 'Something kind of satisfying about taking 'underdog' stuff and making it into something surprisingly good. It's more personal, that way.

I guess in that way AMD really kind of carries the enthusiast torch now. For me, anyway. Maybe Intel still sort of holds the top-tier performance crown, but AMD's offerings this year cater more to the tinkerer's mindset imo. There's just so many more little things you gotta learn and experiment with to get to the pulp of a Ryzen system. It takes a little more effort and forethought to get things working juuust right. But you're rewarded with that hard-earned performance-per-dollar. There's something endearing about picking up their hardware and getting surprising performance out of it after putting in some time and love. It's a bit like a puzzle game, and I mean that in a really endearing way. There's a point of pride to having one that doesn't revolve around how much money you spent or whether it tops everything else. Your average user may not see the point in picking up the "lesser of the two" but someone who enjoys the whole process sees the potential. In this market, these chips are comparatively priced like toys, but beneath that is some pretty legit hardware. Affordable enough to take a chance on for kicks, but capable enough to put to serious use. They tapped into something that speaks to enthusiasts in a way that is not always obvious, and it's something I think a lot of companies in this business tend to miss. Something you can justifiably pick up for the sake of doing a new build... ...for discovery and experimentation. But also something you can rely on just the same. Or maybe you love building PC's but don't love spending ridiculous money for an upgrade you don't fully need lol.

It's like... do we really want "buy this and have the best build evarrrr!!!" We all want to buy good hardware, sure. But is that why we build PC's?

And then there's always that shared experience of everyone sort of discovering new stuff together. Not as much of that to be had with Intel. Every new iteration has become sort of the same routine, while Ryzen is new for everyone.

I kinda think of it like this... ...I would be so stoked to have a top-shelf, maxed-out Intel system, but I would much rather play with a brand-new AMD one... see what tricks it has.

I feel like it's a pretty exciting time to be into building PC's thanks to AMD's new direction. More than likely do it all over again next year, heh. I have problems.


----------



## Arrakis9 (Dec 22, 2018)

So i was attempting to tune my ram at 3466 and ran into a slight issue when going back to the bios. The system reset and prompted me to select a boot device, went into the bios and discovered all of my settings were gone and the bios reset to a previous version (shipped V1 bios for my board). I know my board has dual bios's but there is no switch to toggle between them, do you guys think i bricked the main bios while overclocking my ram? if so are there any tricks to uncorrupt the other bios on a gigabyte board?


----------



## YautjaLord (Dec 23, 2018)

Question: have anyone of you with same or similar mobo as me (GA-AX370 Gaming K7) had problem with booting/OC when AMD CPU fTPM turned on? Rig refused to boot into OS today for some reason when fTPM was also enabled. Turn it Off - all works fine, On & it goes bananas.  Thanx in advance.

P.S. Buying Lumix DC-ZS70 tomorrow, everything else prep'd.


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## biffzinker (Dec 23, 2018)

No issue for me with fTPM enabled while running overclocked but I'm on a MSI B350 board.


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## YautjaLord (Dec 23, 2018)

@biffzinker: I'm on GB Gaming K7, apparently it's notoriously buggy as all f*ck, but it happens once in few months, so i'm happy chap.  Will switch to ASUS for Zen2/X570 tho, just saying.


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## Durvelle27 (Dec 23, 2018)

So ran in too a hiccup

After days of usage and hours of memory test my memory become unstable and crashed my PC. Tried every setting and timing set I could but my PC now refuses to boot at 2666MHz. So now my RAM is set to 2400MHx 16-17-17-32. Not sure what happened as it works fine before and pasted all the tests. 

Guess back to square one.

This is where my performance dropped to


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## cdawall (Dec 24, 2018)

@Durvelle27

try stilts AFR timings for your sticks.



			
				The Stilt;26242714 said:
			
		

> Few more DRAM timing presets:
> 
> _Hynix AFR, 1DPC SR_
> 
> ...



On another note the most recent update 1.1.0.2 beta has pushed a few more mhz out of my Hynix MFR


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## Durvelle27 (Dec 24, 2018)

cdawall said:


> @Durvelle27
> 
> try stilts AFR timings for your sticks.
> 
> ...


My issue is that I’m running 4 sticks and a non thread ripper CPU


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## cdawall (Dec 24, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> My issue is that I’m running 4 sticks and a non thread ripper CPU



Those timings will still help


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## Durvelle27 (Dec 24, 2018)

cdawall said:


> Those timings will still help


i've tried all the way upto 19-19-19-36 and still fails to boot @1.35V


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## HTC (Dec 24, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> i've tried all the way upto 19-19-19-36 and still fails to boot @1.35V



He may be referring to the other timings: not the four main ones.


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## Durvelle27 (Dec 24, 2018)

HTC said:


> He may be referring to the other timings: not the four main ones.


Does it make a difference that his is Single Rank where as mine is Dual Rank


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## cdawall (Dec 24, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> i've tried all the way upto 19-19-19-36 and still fails to boot @1.35V
> 
> 
> View attachment 113268



You should be able to pull off 2933 with those. 

16-17-17-17-30 plus all the sub timings stilt recommends should get you there. His timings got me from 2666 to 2933 with the last BIOS.



Durvelle27 said:


> Does it make a difference that his is Single Rank where as mine is Dual Rank



Mine are Hynix M die yours are Hynix A die. The A die stuff even in a quad rank setup do ok. Just need to play in the sub timings and follow what stilt recommends for timings. Mine are actually worse clockers than those.


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## Durvelle27 (Dec 24, 2018)

cdawall said:


> You should be able to pull off 2933 with those.
> 
> 16-17-17-17-30 plus all the sub timings stilt recommends should get you there. His timings got me from 2666 to 2933 with the last BIOS.
> 
> ...


i'll give it a shot


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## Vya Domus (Dec 24, 2018)

With this new update I was hoping I'll be able to get a little bit more out of this kit but nah, still stuck at 2400.


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## HTC (Dec 25, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> Does it make a difference that his is Single Rank where as mine is Dual Rank



@cdawall already replied with a more informed answer.


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## ChristTheGreat (Dec 25, 2018)

Swapped my Ryzen 1700 + Gigabyte AX-370 Gaming K3, it's now an HyperV Server, with 4x 8gb 2666!

Now running a 2600x, Asus Strix X470-F and Corsair 2x 8gb 3000mhz. overclocked, 1.4v @ 4.0ghz all core!


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## robot zombie (Dec 25, 2018)

ChristTheGreat said:


> Swapped my Ryzen 1700 + Gigabyte AX-370 Gaming K3, it's now an HyperV Server, with 4x 8gb 2666!
> 
> Now running a 2600x, Asus Strix X470-F and Corsair 2x 8gb 3000mhz. overclocked, 1.4v @ 4.0ghz all core!


Enjoy it - my setup is on a similar level and it does very well with most things. I gotta say though, CPU vcore seems a lil high, for the clocks anyway. My 2600 doesn't start crossing into needing 1.4v until I try to pass 4.2ghz. So you could probably go much lower and see some excellent temperatures. Would never break 60C under a good cooler, I'm betting. I can't break 65C running 4.1 @ 1.23v with my 2600.

But if I were you I'd just strap a nice cooler to it and watch it boost! I know I would if I had the x model. It's a killer feature!


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## ChristTheGreat (Dec 26, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> Enjoy it - my setup is on a similar level and it does very well with most things. I gotta say though, CPU vcore seems a lil high, for the clocks anyway. My 2600 doesn't start crossing into needing 1.4v until I try to pass 4.2ghz. So you could probably go much lower and see some excellent temperatures. Would never break 60C under a good cooler, I'm betting. I can't break 65C running 4.1 @ 1.23v with my 2600.
> 
> But if I were you I'd just strap a nice cooler to it and watch it boost! I know I would if I had the x model. It's a killer feature!




This 2600x can't get better. I tried 4.1ghz @ 1.35v, it crashed right away. couldn't get it stable, except with high vcore.

as for temp, my Noctua NH-U12S with push pull, I get around 78C under full load for 4 hrs. On stock clock, full prime, I get around 68C, but I lea ve my fan curve to 20% fan speed until 60C.

Case fan kick in when the GPU gets high, but I might try to do it with CPU to see instead. My 1700 was cooling fgine at 3.6ghz 1.32v, but seems like the 2600x is a different story

BTW, lucky for 1.23v @ 4.1ghz


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## HTC (Dec 26, 2018)

For those that have *X370 Taichi board*, there's a new BIOS: 5.10.



> Update AMD AGESA to 1.0.0.6.
> * Please install "AMD all in 1 with VGA driver ver:18.10.20_NHDA" or a later version before updating to this BIOS.
> * If you updated the BIOS before updating the AMD all in one driver, please refer to the Display recovery SOP to recover your system.
> * If the current BIOS version is older than P3.30, please update BIOS to P3.30(Bridge BIOS) before updating this version.



I'm assuming it's update to *PinanclePI* 1.0.0.6 and not "regular" AGESA 1.0.0.6 because this board has had AGESA 1.0.0.6 ever since BIOS 2.40.


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## robot zombie (Dec 26, 2018)

ChristTheGreat said:


> This 2600x can't get better. I tried 4.1ghz @ 1.35v, it crashed right away. couldn't get it stable, except with high vcore.
> 
> as for temp, my Noctua NH-U12S with push pull, I get around 78C under full load for 4 hrs. On stock clock, full prime, I get around 68C, but I lea ve my fan curve to 20% fan speed until 60C.
> 
> Case fan kick in when the GPU gets high, but I might try to do it with CPU to see instead. My 1700 was cooling fgine at 3.6ghz 1.32v, but seems like the 2600x is a different story


Silicon lottery I suppose. I will say I ran at 4ghz for quite a while and missed nothing. I'm also running a larger cooler to get the temps I see, and yeah, I have case fans following the CPU sensor. CPU fan runs at a minimum of 40%, gradually ramping up to 60% at 41C, and maxing at 65C. Sounds crazy but the fan on the Scythe Mugen MAX is dead quiet, not to mention effective. It is barely audible in my case at 100%. It's a quick jump up, but for most things it barely hits 50C so it still runs dead quiet. ML140 front intakes run at 50% @ 55C, again maxing at 65C.

Worth mentioning, my fan curves are that way because of some weird offset with my mobo. The actual CPU core temp readout can go as high as 80C while another simply called "CPU" is what my fans bind to, and it often reads as much as 20C lower, so to stay out of that range I have to set my fan curves lower. Ultimately the two readouts will equalize, but that can mean 10 minutes at 80C before fans pick it up. I think it's actually socket temp. Annoying.

My observation running Ryzen 1 vs Ryzen 2 is that although they are more power efficient, often allowing higher clocks at the same voltage, they can still run comparatively warmer at those high clocks because of how current ramps up with infinity fabric as clock speed increases on Ryzen 2. Under increasing load the balance tips further towards infinity fabric sucking up a butt ton of juice, and the net result factoring in the higher clocks tends to be much more current. That may explain why your 1700 was cooling fine at 3.6 while your 2600x crosses into the max temperatures it can still run stable at running 4ghz, even with two less active cores. The power difference is greater than it may seem on the surface, but I bet you'd see it if you watched your sensors, specifically looking at wattage and current readouts.



> BTW, lucky for 1.23v @ 4.1ghz


Oh definitely. Part of it I think is sensor undershoot, but temperatures tell me that number isn't far off from reality. Still, most 2600's will do 4.1 or even 4.2 no problem. One thing worth mentioning, when I first got my 2600, I had trouble overclocking on the stock cooler. Couldn't pass 4ghz. Temperatures were high and it took too much voltage to make it stable. It took more voltage to run that, then, at 4ghz than it takes now to run 4.2. It seems like Ryzen really doesn't like higher temperatures than 70C. Stability starts to tank and ironically it seems to require more voltage to hold the same clocks stable at higher temperatures, thus further elevating temperatures and compromising stability. That's where I would run into trouble. Without a cooler to balance it, there's literally no sweet spot to be had.

Just food for thought. For all I know its nonsense and I missed something back then, but I can say for sure that dropping a much beefier cooler on allowed me to get much lower vcore. Can't even begin to explain why that really is. I know it doesn't make sense. Maybe something to do with temperature fluctuations. Maybe big jumps in power consumption coupled with too much heat too fast or something. *shrugs*


----------



## Vya Domus (Dec 27, 2018)

After battling with this kit for months, I finally was able to reach something other than 2400. 





However those latencies are pretty damn lose and I also do not like that 2T command rate.


----------



## GoldenX (Dec 27, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> After battling with this kit for months, I finally was able to reach something other than 2400.
> 
> View attachment 113442
> 
> However those latencies are pretty damn lose and I also do not like that 2T command rate.


Voltages? The first gen is one hell of a lottery. I'm at 3200 16-18-18 now.


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## Vya Domus (Dec 27, 2018)

1.35V, it's the XMP voltage. Managed to go down to 16-18-18 and 1T, now it's definitely an improvement over the previous 2400mhz CL14.


----------



## btarunr (Dec 27, 2018)

UserBenchmarks: Game 110%, Desk 103%, Work 109%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 2700X - *103.7%*
GPU: Nvidia GTX 1070-Ti - *120.3%*
SSD: Crucial MX500 500GB - *109.4%*
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 3TB - *87.6%*
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3000 C16 2x16GB - *88.8%*
MBD: MSI B450 GAMING PRO CARBON AC (MS-7B85)


----------



## Vya Domus (Dec 27, 2018)

Damn, I was on the verge of selling this kit an buying another one but finally got it working as it should. Turns out that update did something after all, I think at least. I swear I tried these timings yesterday and it did not boot. I have a feeling my board was doing something funky all the time screwing with my timings and somehow messing about in the BIOS I fixed it.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Dec 27, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> View attachment 113464
> 
> Damn, I was on the verge of selling this kit an buying another one but finally got it working as it should. Turns out that update did something after all, I think at least. I swear I tried these timings yesterday and it did not boot. I have a feeling my board was doing something funky all the time screwing with my timings and somehow messing about in the BIOS I fixed it.


I would blame the memory training, it probably got stuck on a tertiary setting it couldn't run right and eventually got it right.
Since I have ran the same timings with and without success too.


----------



## Super XP (Jan 2, 2019)

UserBenchmarks: Game 80%, Desk 118%, Work 118%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 1700X - *95.2%*
GPU: AMD RX 580 - *74.7%*
SSD: Corsair Force MP500 NVMe PCIe M.2 480GB - *151.6%*
SSD: Force MP510 480GB - *235%*
HDD: WD Green 1TB (2010) - *58.3%*
RAM: Unknown=> Trident Z DDR4 3200 C16 2x16GB - *106.9%*
MBD: Asrock X370 Gaming X

That new  Corsair M.2 Force MP510 is smoking on the M.2 Ultra slot.


----------



## robot zombie (Jan 2, 2019)

Since we're doing the userbenchmark thing I guess I'll post mine. Usually I like to run at 4.1ghz just because voltage is way lower (as in <1.25v) and temps are awesome, while performance is still literally like 95% there. 4.2ghz is more like my best daily max. I just like the fact that games max ~50C for me right now  Though if I didn't care about temperatures, I could go up to 4.25 comfortably and at least get some real boost for the extra heat... ...but then heavier stress tests are starting to take me over 80C and games are running me as high as 70C. "Safe" sure - and proven stable, but that's a lot of heat to be pumping into a small room with my PC right next to me, specially with my RAM config needing a little extra CPU vcore on top. Ridiculously high wattage and current levels = lots of heat. Not worth it for something I generally won't notice anyway. I've already got a nice room heater - the RX 580, heh.

Gotta say I'm loving the 970 evo as my first nvme SSD. Load times for Fallout 4 are normal now! Seeing the benchmarks is an extra level of satisfaction, too. Not to mention slick boot times and the general smoothness running more data-intensive programs. People say it's not worth it going from SATA SSD to nvme... ...I disagree. Maybe for some people it's not - my 860 evo rules and I've always been quite happy with it, but the 970 has been a pretty obvious step up for the things I use it for. And for what the 970's go for now it's almost a no-brainer if you're already planning to shell-out for a quality SSD.

The 3600/CL17 b-die from g.skill is great ram, btw. Sometimes you'll catch it for 20-30 bucks cheaper than its 3200/CL14 counterpart (RGB stuff, anyway,) but it'll run that same 3200/CL14 with really nice subtimings easily. I think I'm at a DRAM voltage of 1.37 and SOC of something like .98v. And honestly I think the DRAM voltage is only what it is because of something with the training voltage on my mobo. That, or being stuck with an old version of AGESA. I haven't tried messing with it since this board finally got the latest non pinnacle pi.

UserBenchmarks: Game 90%, Desk 139%, Work 118%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 - *101.4%*
GPU: AMD RX 580 - *81.3%*
SSD: Samsung 970 Evo NVMe PCIe M.2 500GB - *281.2%*
SSD: Samsung 860 Evo 250GB - *127.3%*
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 1TB - *98.1%*
RAM: G.SKILL F4 DDR4 3600 C17 2x8GB - *122.8%*
MBD: Asus ROG STRIX X370-F GAMING

According to this, I am a technical master! Hot damn! Honestly guys, if that's what this benchmark determines me to be, I majorly question its reliability as a benchmark. It's almost patronizing, how far off that is from reality  I think I put together a great little budget rig for my audio production needs and 1080p/60 gaming and all - it runs like a dream and I'm proud of what I can get from it, but "technical master" sounds really silly to me. All of their little tiers are ridiculous... they're engineered to make you feel good and make the results seem to mean more than they do. "Nuclear Submarine" is not what I think of when I think "Ryzen 2600/RX 580 gaming rig" lol. Their grading system needs a little tweaking, hah.


----------



## Super XP (Jan 2, 2019)

I believe UserBenchmark compares your setup with others. And gives you information on how your setup should perform in relation to everybody else's. Its the average I think.

It ain't perfect, but does give you a nice performance perspective.


----------



## robot zombie (Jan 2, 2019)

No, I agree, it's nice as a general comparative approximation. It does a good job of showing where you could maybe improve things, or where something may be going wrong with your setup. I especially like it for testing different configs of the same machine against each other. Or maybe getting a look at where a recent upgrade lands you. I just think there are certain things it doesn't give a realistic picture of. To me, it's more of a 'fun' benchmark. I'm not tweaking my rig to get better ubm scores like I might with CB or something.


----------



## Papahyooie (Jan 3, 2019)

Subbing to the thread. Finally moved back to the Red team after years on an i5 4690. Just got a 2600 and an Asus Strix B350-F. Hopefully get to finish up the build tonight.


----------



## GoldenX (Jan 6, 2019)

New BIOS on MSI, adds "cpu compatibility" for APUs. Gave me offset voltages and custom TDP.


----------



## NdMk2o1o (Jan 6, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> New BIOS on MSI, adds "cpu compatibility" for APUs. Gave me offset voltages and custom TDP.


Probably the same agesa Pi 1.0.0.6 update Asrock has just released also, not to be confused with the 1.0.0.6 summit ridge agesa update back in 2017/18. Well done AMD for making bios revisions simple to understand 

Though I have the latest Asrock Ab350m Bios (agesa Pi 1.0.0.6) and am running a pair of 8GB single rank (Hynix IC's) 3000mhz Teamgroup RAM sticks at 3200mhz with improved timings, so won't be one to complain.


----------



## Flyordie (Jan 6, 2019)

I just wish Gigabyte would fix their X399 BIOS bug.  

1.6V being pushed through a 14nm Threadripper isn't exactly a great thing to have happen.


----------



## Kursah (Jan 6, 2019)

I need to go up to v3 of the modded bios that @1usmus has created here: https://www.overclock.net/forum/11-...yzen-bios-mods-how-update-bios-correctly.html

But v2's been solid and gave me PBO back when the Asus official 4207 removed it. 

Anyone else running these modded bioses on theirs? 

The process isn't all that bad, Rufus DOS FAT32 UEFI bootable USB, slap the modded bioses and the stock bios of the same version in. Flash the stock BIOS using command line, then flash the modded bios, reset the system and away you go. 

Gotta say I am pretty happy with the results so far seeing that I am able to achieve stability and improved performance from PBO.


----------



## Super XP (Jan 11, 2019)

UserBenchmarks: *Game 80%*, *Desk 112%*, *Work 115%*
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 1700X - *90%*
GPU: AMD RX 580 - *76%*
SSD: Corsair Force MP500 NVMe PCIe M.2 480GB - *141.5%*
SSD: Corsair Force 3 180GB - *56.4%*
SSD: Force MP510 480GB - *231.6%*
HDD: WD Green 1TB (2010) - *54.2%*
RAM:  G-Skill Trident Z DDR4 3200 C16 2x16GB - *108.1%*
MBD: Asrock X370 Gaming X


----------



## Super XP (Jan 13, 2019)

UserBenchmarks: Game 79%, Desk 114%, Work 114%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 1700X - *90.4%*
GPU: AMD RX 580 - *74.6%*
SSD: Corsair Force MP500 NVMe PCIe M.2 480GB - *140.2%*
SSD: Corsair Force 3 180GB - *55.7%*
SSD: Force MP510 480GB - *238.7%*
HDD: WD Green 1TB (2010) - *53.9%*
USB: Kingston DataTraveler 100 G3 USB 3.0 32GB - *27.8%*
RAM: Unknown=> Trident Z DDR4 3200 C16 2x16GB - *106.3%*
MBD: Asrock X370 Gaming X

This is kind of weird though, My turbo speed is less versus the base speed. Hmmm

*AMD Ryzen 7 1700X-$348
49,078 User benchmarks, average bench 88%
AM4, 1 CPU, 8 cores, 16 threads
Base clock 3.6 GHz, turbo 3.55 GHz (avg)*


----------



## NdMk2o1o (Jan 13, 2019)

Super XP said:


> UserBenchmarks: Game 79%, Desk 114%, Work 114%
> CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 1700X - *90.4%*
> GPU: AMD RX 580 - *74.6%*
> SSD: Corsair Force MP500 NVMe PCIe M.2 480GB - *140.2%*
> ...


Ryzens base clock tends to fluctuate around 99.** instead of a constant 100 CPU-Z should confirm the same.


----------



## Papahyooie (Jan 15, 2019)

What is this black Ryzen magic?? My 2600 clocks up to 4.5ghz for single core (sometimes more than one), and I've done no tweaking whatsoever. Is the max boost cock that they cite in the specs an all-core boost? I need to research this more, but I am getting more and more happy with this purchase every day!


----------



## Super XP (Jan 15, 2019)

Papahyooie said:


> What is this black Ryzen magic?? My 2600 clocks up to 4.5ghz for single core (sometimes more than one), and I've done no tweaking whatsoever. Is the max boost cock that they cite in the specs an all-core boost? I need to research this more, but I am getting more and more happy with this purchase every day!


I think it's all cores. Because a single core can go much higher than the boost clocks.


----------



## robot zombie (Jan 15, 2019)

Papahyooie said:


> What is this black Ryzen magic?? My 2600 clocks up to 4.5ghz for single core (sometimes more than one), and I've done no tweaking whatsoever. Is the max boost cock that they cite in the specs an all-core boost? I need to research this more, but I am getting more and more happy with this purchase every day!


I'm not even gonna touch that typo... thats quite a phrase man...

But yeah, with good enough cooling SC boosts that high aren't unheard of. Sounds like you got a winner setup. Though in reality it likely wont hold quite that under continuous load.

It just occured to me that Ive never encountered an unhappy 2600 owner. I feel like those are in the perfect sweet spot. They really are pretty capable for the money.


----------



## Super XP (Jan 15, 2019)

Matured process node. Is probably why the ZEN+ are doing well in clock speed. 
Can't wait for 7nm.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 15, 2019)

robot zombie said:


> It just occured to me that Ive never encountered an unhappy 2600 owner.


Same here. I have yet to hear about an unhappy Ryzen owner. There have been a few that have lamented not getting a faster/better one. Then I help them apply an OC or help them with a upgrade and they're happy again.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 15, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Same here. I have yet to hear about an unhappy Ryzen owner. There have been a few that have lamented not getting a faster/better one. Then I help them apply an OC or help them with a upgrade and they're happy again.


I don't know about that bro, i agree they're happy but the odd guy on here , like me cant wait for Ryzen 3XXX,,,  i got a 2600 because i could'nt face less of an upgrade but did'nt want to  waste to much money on the present generation.
i will stick the 2600x in something though ,for me


----------



## Papahyooie (Jan 15, 2019)

robot zombie said:


> I'm not even gonna touch that typo... thats quite a phrase man...
> 
> But yeah, with good enough cooling SC boosts that high aren't unheard of. Sounds like you got a winner setup. Though in reality it likely wont hold quite that under continuous load.
> 
> It just occured to me that Ive never encountered an unhappy 2600 owner. I feel like those are in the perfect sweet spot. They really are pretty capable for the money.



You know what...? I'm not even going to fix it.... 

I just read up on XFR2. Looks like that's what's going on, especially since my temps don't go above 56C on air! This Ryzen setup is a whole new world for me. My last unlocked chip was the FX8370, and I've had a locked haswell i5 since then. That one wouldn't even do the rated max boost on all cores, so this is a super pleasant surprise.


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 15, 2019)

@theoneandonlymrk Did you hit a wall of 4.1 GHz with all cores as well?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 15, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> @theoneandonlymrk Did you hit a wall of 4.1 GHz with all cores as well?


yes pretty much for 24/7 90% Loaded anyway. oh shit my L went again ,anyway i can run upto 4.235 aLL core to game and bench but im not ok with 1.5V 24/7.


----------



## btarunr (Jan 17, 2019)

#10YearsChallenge

2009 (Phenom X4 9650):






2019 (Ryzen 7 2700X):


----------



## cdawall (Jan 17, 2019)

Oh now this I can 100% get behind. Here is the 2009 thread these were out of lol https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/cdawall-vs-assassin48.97389/

#10yearchallenge #keepmultigpualive

550BE (or 955/910/whatever), 4x2GB D9JNM, Sapphire 4850X2










2990WX, 4x8GB hynix AFR, 2xEVGA 1080Ti


----------



## GoldenX (Jan 17, 2019)

10 years challenge? I still use the same case, keyboard and monitor.


----------



## Super XP (Jan 17, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> 10 years challenge? I still use the same case, keyboard and monitor.


I'm still using the same Classic G15 Gaming Keyboard by Logitech and the Corsair 750W Power Supply. 
The rest I gradually updated throughout the years. For me the Case needs to be well designed. That's why I chose Corsair...


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 17, 2019)

UserBenchmarks: Game 77%, Desk 135%, Work 112%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600X - *100.4%*
GPU: AMD RX 480 - *68.7%*
SSD: Samsung 970 Evo NVMe PCIe M.2 500GB - *298.2%*
SSD: SanDisk Ultra II 480GB - *109.6%*
RAM: Unknown 8GBF1X08QFHH36-135-K 2x8GB - *119.3%*
MBD: MSI B350M GAMING PRO (MS-7A39)


----------



## Darmok N Jalad (Jan 18, 2019)

Been running a 2400G mini-ITX build for about a month, and I’m fairly happy with it. I do end up with my system rebooting instead of waking from sleep occasionally. I can’t tell if it’s my RX 480, which I undervolt under a Wattmann profile. The thing is rock stable in gaming, even when overclocked to 4.1ghz. I don’t have much time to fiddle with it, as what little time I’m on it, I’m playing games. It’s basically my “Xbox” for my 50” UHD TV.


----------



## Super XP (Jan 20, 2019)

UserBenchmarks: Game 81%, Desk 124%, Work 121%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 1700X - *98.1%*
GPU: AMD RX 580 - *74.3%*
SSD: Corsair Force MP500 NVMe PCIe M.2 480GB - *145.3%*
SSD: Corsair Force NVMe PCIe M.2 480GB - *244.8%*
RAM: Unknown=> Trident Z DDR4 3200 C16 2x16GB - *108.2%*
MBD: Asrock X370 Gaming X

*AM4, 1 CPU, 8 cores, 16 threads*
*Base clock 3.6 GHz, turbo 3.85 GHz (avg)*
*Performing way above expectations (93rd percentile)*


----------



## GoldenX (Jan 21, 2019)

Testing the 45w cTDP, plus setting -50% power on the 270X. Just for the lulz.


----------



## Super XP (Jan 21, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> Testing the 45w cTDP, plus setting -50% power on the 270X. Just for the lulz.


Let us know how it goes.


----------



## GoldenX (Jan 22, 2019)

Super XP said:


> Let us know how it goes.


I would love to have an APC/Power Meter, the only thing I can see is the estimated power consumption from the CPU.
24W on the CPU while gaming seems nice. Performance is still good enough.


----------



## Darmok N Jalad (Jan 22, 2019)

I think it comes down to what you get in boost on a few cores at the lower TDP. Care to post your findings?

It’s one reason I picked the 2400G—65W and it seems to have no problem hanging around 3.9ghz on all cores in games. Would love it if AMD would make a cheap 4C/8T 3000 series that clocks to 4.5ghz or more.


----------



## GoldenX (Jan 22, 2019)

Darmok N Jalad said:


> I think it comes down to what you get in boost on a few cores at the lower TDP. Care to post your findings?
> 
> It’s one reason I picked the 2400G—65W and it seems to have no problem hanging around 3.9ghz on all cores in games. Would love it if AMD would make a cheap 4C/8T 3000 series that clocks to 4.5ghz or more.


Is there any program that can register the use of the different steps, a la Android?


----------



## Darmok N Jalad (Jan 22, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> Is there any program that can register the use of the different steps, a la Android?


You can use something like HWiNFO. It will show you your max clocks and also average clocks for each core. Might even be able to do some logging, but I’ve never tried it.


----------



## GoldenX (Jan 22, 2019)

Darmok N Jalad said:


> You can use something like HWiNFO. It will show you your max clocks and also average clocks for each core. Might even be able to do some logging, but I’ve never tried it.


I seem to get no turbo at all, but a fixed normal nominal clock (3100 on my case).


----------



## Darmok N Jalad (Jan 22, 2019)

Makes sense, I guess. But it still holds its own in games?


----------



## GoldenX (Jan 22, 2019)

Darmok N Jalad said:


> Makes sense, I guess. But it still holds its own in games?


4 cores at 3100 is like an old lower model i5. It's more than enough for normal/light gaming, plus I play at 1440x900, so the load is a bit lower than on FullHD.
Now, setting the GPU at -50%, that kills performance like overheating.


----------



## YautjaLord (Jan 25, 2019)

Just testing the cam, sorry for such a delay, just bought the cam exactly a week ago. Panasonic Lumix DC-ZS70, good in bunch of uses, be it vlogging, concerts/fests/etc.... Also learning how to record in low light, indoors.





Will be used this year for vlogging, Bloodstock & other rock/punk/metal events & more.

*EDIT*

Just found out vlogging is not so ideal with this thing (Lumix DC-ZS70) due to average to poor mic audio, but it's according to one article about this cam. I haven't tried it for myself yet, will do some mic testing myself to hear the results. But otherwise, i love this baby so far, also has 4k photo & video shooting - not in my list of top priorities, but it's fun to be aware of it's existence.  Photos & videos of the rig come out crisp with the help of the plethora of features. Cheers. 

*EDIT #2*

And it's official: buying a studio lamp. The footage on my rig is not so good compared to how it looks on cam without a lamp, so studio lamp is a necessity. Will order one on ebay this Monday, found one for ~5GBP (+~5GBP shipping) vintage one.  Flash defaults to disabled when recording video, setting ISO & other stuff manually doesn't seem to cut it. The long & arduous road to get things done the way i want, makes one (me) wanna brake some shit.  Will post short clip on YT once the lamp is in my grasp & i actually recorded vid with these two (cam & lamp). Dimly lit indoor areas are not strong aspect of this cam without a lamp.


----------



## Super XP (Jan 28, 2019)

UserBenchmarks: *Game 79%, Desk 115%, Work 117%*
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 1700X - *93.6%*
GPU: AMD RX 580 - *74.3%*
SSD: Corsair Force MP500 NVMe PCIe M.2 480GB - *141.6%*
SSD: Corsair Force NVMe PCIe M.2 480GB - *227.1%*
RAM: Unknown=> Trident Z DDR4 3200 C16 2x16GB - *106.4%*
MBD: Asrock X370 Gaming X

UserBenchmarks: *Game 79%, Desk 115%, Work 117%*
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 1700X - *94.3%*
GPU: AMD RX 580 - *74.3%*
SSD: Corsair Force MP500 NVMe PCIe M.2 480GB - *143.9%*
SSD: Corsair Force NVMe PCIe M.2 480GB - *226.6%*
RAM: Unknown=> Trident Z DDR4 3200 C16 2x16GB - *107.8%*
MBD: Asrock X370 Gaming X

*AMD Ryzen 7 1700X-$348*
*49,849 User benchmarks, average bench 89%
AM4, 1 CPU, 8 cores, 16 threads
Base clock 3.6 GHz, turbo 3.85 GHz (avg)
*
*Performing way above expectations (93rd percentile)*

UserBenchmarks: *Game 82%, Desk 121%, Work 119%*
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 1700X - *97.9%*
GPU: AMD RX 580 - *75.7%*
SSD: Corsair Force MP500 NVMe PCIe M.2 480GB - *145.6%*
SSD: Corsair Force NVMe PCIe M.2 480GB - *229.6%*
RAM: Unknown=> Trident Z DDR4 3200 C16 2x16GB - *108.3%*
MBD: Asrock X370 Gaming X


----------



## YautjaLord (Jan 29, 2019)

Here's mine:
UserBenchmarks: Game 111%, Desk 150%, Work 138%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 2700X - *105.2%*
GPU: Nvidia GTX 1070 - *104%*
SSD: Samsung 960 Pro NVMe PCIe M.2 512GB - *330.5%*
USB: WD Elements 10B8 500GB - *34.1%*
RAM: G.SKILL Flare X DDR4 3200 C14 2x8GB - *107.6%*
MBD: Gigabyte GA-AX370-Gaming K7
Probably for epeen, OC'ing any component basically is legit with this app/thingy. In my case it's CPU, haven't OC'd  graphics card/RAM/etc.... at all. Gaming is DX9/10 only, no DX11, let alone DX12 in this suite. They have separate DX11 & 12 test at the site, though, if my memory serves me well.

P.S. Strange, it lists me as GB (Great Britain) user, wtf?


----------



## Super XP (Jan 29, 2019)

Your Ram is C14 and Mine is C16. Shouldn't you have better performing over mine?

I slightly OCed the CPU a bit. GPU is stock.
Wow and your M.2 Samsung is FASTer than my Corsair I stalled in the mobo's Ultra M.2 slot. Nice.


----------



## YautjaLord (Jan 29, 2019)

Probably not, TridentZ is a bit faster than FlareX, i also see you have 32 gigs (2x16) as opposed to "just" 16 (2x8) that i have, might it be the case?  Nevermind, does it's job just fine, opens large files (MP4, 1080p, 3 or 4GB in size) really fast from get go & finishes merging them in Blender Video Editor under 10mins (3 or more files, each "weighs" few good GBs).

Mine is sitting comfortably in M.2, not U.2 (or Ultra M.2, also a band  jk), i really love Samsung's SSDs now, ain't i?  Win 10 cloned* from my prev SATA III 850 Pro to this one in less than 15mins in it's 150GB+ entirety. 

*With the help by Samsung OS Migration Tool thingy.


----------



## Super XP (Jan 29, 2019)

Wow 15min of 150+ GB lol FAST. 
That Samsung looks like its significantly faster over my already speedy Corsair Force MP510 480GB M.2 chip. Installed in my Ultra M.2 slot it says I can achieve up to 30 GB/s and the normal M.2 gets about 20 GB/s. I tested them both out and the Ultra M.2 gains a lot faster performance.

Not much of a performance increase between the 2.

Samsung 960 PRO M.2 512GB Internal SSD (MZ-V6P512BW) *(This is what you have I assume?)*
*Max. Sequential Read Speed* Up to  *3,500 MB/s*
*Max. Sequential Write Speed *Up to  *2,100 MB/s*

Corsair CSSD-F480GBMP510 Force Series MP510 480GB NVMe PCIe Gen3 x4 M.2 SSD
Sequential Read  *3,480 MB/s*
Sequential Write  *2,000 MB/s*


----------



## YautjaLord (Jan 29, 2019)

Don't exactly remember the numbers, but yeah it is more or less the same. And i said less than 15mins cause while it was cloning OS from 850 Pro to this one, i did something to keep myself occupied & it took something like 12+ mins to finish, came back, the entirety of Steam games library, drivers, apps & stuff copied/cloned. This SSD is fast as all f*ck, yeah.  Might run CrystalDiskMark again to be certain. And yeah, that's the name of SSD, picked it up cause it also appears in mobo's M.2 SSDs compatibility list.


----------



## Super XP (Jan 29, 2019)

Nice. 
Maybe I'll also try CrystalDiskMar. Just need to remember if I have it. Lol


----------



## Hardi (Jan 30, 2019)

and here's mine, strange that my 850evo got better score then pro, but the evo's completely empty so maybe its that.

UserBenchmarks: Game 143%, Desk 155%, Work 149%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 2700X - *107.7%*
GPU: Nvidia GTX 1080-Ti - *173.5%*
SSD: Samsung 970 EVO Plus 500GB - *327%*
SSD: Samsung 850 Pro 1TB - *124.5%*
SSD: Samsung 850 Evo 500GB - *131.6%*
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 C16 2x8GB - *110.3%*
MBD: Gigabyte X470 AORUS GAMING 7 WIFI


----------



## EntropyZ (Jan 30, 2019)

I wonder if I have posted mine, can't find it in the posting history, so here are updated results after some tweaking around clock speeds, timings and power states.

UserBenchmarks: Game 103%, Desk 89%, Work 73%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 - *92.5%*
GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070 - *111%*
SSD: Crucial MX300 525GB - *96.2%*
SSD: ADATA Premier SP550 240GB - *87.1%*
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LED DDR4 3200 C16 2x8GB - *118%*
MBD: ASUSTek ROG Strix X470-I Gaming

I locked the CPU at 4GHz via PStates, it could go higher since it is on an AIO (and technically it already matches or surpasses an average 2600X at 200MHz less, if I am correct), personally I prefer using as low voltage as possible, I kept 1.288v for the highest state and that seems to be OK, not sure if it will go lower but I got it stable at that on the first try and didn't bother with any testing after that. SMT is disabled, since the games I play don't take advantage of extra threads anyway. Higher clocks are a must for poorly optimized stuff.

I don't think there is much point in re-testing with SMT enabled, plenty of results out there. I've just thrown a curve-ball here a little.

Squeezing some more speed out of the system would be easy, but the power savings start dropping off, obviously.

I wanted to sell that memory kit for some G.Skill Tridents, but it seems it's not really worth switching TBH. Who would have thought Samsung E-dies were worth something. They were trouble to run, well... Until AGESA updates dropped for almost perfect DDR4 support.


----------



## Hardi (Jan 30, 2019)

nice ram score, what timings are you using?


----------



## EntropyZ (Jan 30, 2019)

Hardi said:


> nice ram score, what timings are you using?







The latency is still what drives me absolutely nuts because Intel platforms boast it to be that much better. It's all numbers though... In real usage cases it probably doesn't make any difference when I game, but alas can't test that without a i5-8400/i5-8600K somewhere lying around.

I'm happy with the numbers I dialed in for the kit. But I am wondering if it can go further. It is also helped by having an ITX motherboard, because the DDR slot traces are closer to the socket. Which in a nutshell, usually nets better stability when trying to dial the lowest timings possible.

I had an X470 MSI Gaming Plus motherboard which couldn't do such timings at the time, surprisingly. Maybe the newer BIOS updates tuned something later, but I have sold the board on basis that I wanted a portable system capable of smashing games... So, no luck re-testing that. I wish I had disposable income to just hoard hardware, but some people just wouldn't be happy with that. 

The memory kit has been with me since Zen launch, and it's been getting better with age.

Watching @buildzoid really made me start caring about memory timing control in the first place. His detailed explanations and insight were invaluable to me.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 30, 2019)

I've been messing about

UserBenchmarks: Game 122%, Desk 115%, Work 107%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600X - 95.5%
GPU: AMD RX Vega 64-LC (Liquid Cooled) - 146%
SSD: Samsung PM981 NVMe PCIe M.2 512GB - 193%
SSD: AMD T00 StoreMI 1TB - 331.7%
HDD: Hitachi HDS722020ALA330 2TB - 36.8%
HDD: WD Green 2TB (2011) - 35.4%
RAM: Unknown AR32C16S8K2SU416R 2x8GB - 110.6%
MBD: Asus ROG CROSSHAIR VII HERO (WI-FI)


----------



## chevy350 (Jan 31, 2019)

Here's how my 2700 is doin

UserBenchmarks: Game 72%, Desk 128%, Work 118%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 2700 - *104.2%*
GPU: Nvidia GTX 550 Ti - *11.8%*
GPU: AMD RX 580 - *64.2%*
SSD: Samsung 950 NVMe PCIe M.2 256GB - *236.4%*
SSD: AMD T00 StoreMI 616GB - *432.8%*
HDD: Seagate ST1000VM002-1CT162 1TB - *60.1%*
RAM: Kingston HP24D4U7S8MBP-4 4x4GB - *108.2%*
MBD: Asus ROG STRIX X470-F GAMING


----------



## NdMk2o1o (Feb 1, 2019)

Liking this £99 Teamgroup DDR4 3000 16GB (2x8GB) 16.18.18.18 RAM, currently running @3200 14.18.18.18 - 1.4v can't go any higher on the frequency even relaxing timings to 20.20.20 and upping volts to 1.5v (for testing only) it's a no go, I might try my luck and push the Cas latency down further but from what I know Ryzen doesn't run odd cas latencies and will default to the nearest even mumber? at least on my setup, surely there's no way I can reach cas12 @3200mhz?


----------



## Kursah (Feb 1, 2019)

There's a feature you may be able to use to allow using odd numbers in timing. On my board I believe it is called Gear Down and it appears to be a standard in AGESA 1.0.0.6 and higher, and fwir you need to set it to disabled to be able to set timings to odd and lock them in. I'm running even timings on my DDR4 kit as well so I haven't tested to see if that feature actually works or not. But it might be worth snooping around your UEFI to see if that setting is available for you or not if you're going to try odd timings and don't want your board pushing it up to the next even timings. 

Though iirc reading, Gear Down being enabled also locks CR to 2T, and you're at 1T so maybe its already disabled? Worth a look I suppose.


----------



## robot zombie (Feb 2, 2019)

Kursah said:


> Though iirc reading, Gear Down being enabled also locks CR to 2T, and you're at 1T so maybe its already disabled? Worth a look I suppose.


For a while that was the case but I think most boards are past that now... or maybe its only a Zen+ thing. I do know that quite often you will see 1t reported regardless of whether youve turned on geardown. Whether or not thats being ignored I couldnt tell you. It's been a while and I dont need it myself, but I do know its at least not the same as straight 2t. Similar ideas in similar practice with different compromises. Iirc the data pins still run at full frequency. Only the command side gets halved down. You could argue thats what makes it 2t and I wont go there because Im not versed lol. But functionally it is different ftom just setting a 2t command rate, where the data rate is halved as well. To me that suggests that you will still reap the benefits of higher frequencies. But again I am just guessing on what little I remember atm.

I remember testing it a little playing with fast speeds/looseish timings... trying and failing to take things further. But what I saw with working tunings was actually a pretty minor deficit coming from 1t to geardown. 2t with no gd on the other hand is almost don't bother territory, unless maybe you need it to pass, say, 2666 or something. But even then, geardown might still give you a better chance. With Ryzen anyway.... if were assuming 3200 is the point of diminshing returns it may not be a huge loss.

I guess best practice is to leave it turned off and try to run a good config that doesnt need it, but in many cases the stability gain turning it on offsets whatever penalty comes with it. Say you're running 3000 cl17 max. Maybe with GD you get that CAS down to 16. Not a bad compromise. Or on the flipside maybe it gives you that bump from 2800/cl16 to 3000. Bumps like that are definitely worth it vs being able to run odd timings or having to run 2t, whether its literally not possible or simply not stable. Comes in handy at that critical speed range where you're right on the verge of a good sweet spot.

Grain of salt. Probably depends a lot on the ram you're running. At the end of the day, most people wont notice a difference between any of it anyway. Stability should matter more by the time youre deliberating on geadown/1t/2t.


----------



## Darmok N Jalad (Feb 3, 2019)

The 2400G @ 4.05GHz. Seems low in quad core scores for some reason. 

UserBenchmarks: Game 66%, Desk 77%, Work 59%

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2400G - *78.6%*
GPU: AMD RX 480 - *69.3%*
SSD: Crucial MX300 525GB - *92.4%*
SSD: SanDiskSSD Plus 120GB - *58.5%*
RAM: Unknown CL16-18-18 D4-3000 2x8GB - *93.9%*
MBD: Gigabyte GA-B450 I AORUS PRO WIFI-CF


----------



## Final_Fighter (Feb 3, 2019)

thought i would post my user benchmark score.

UserBenchmarks: Game 77%, Desk 92%, Work 86%
CPU: Ryzen 5 1600 - 97.1%
GPU: GTX 1060-3GB - 75.1%
SSD: Samsung MZNTY128HDHP-000L1 128GB - 108%
SSD: Mushkin MKNSSDTR128GB-3DL 128GB - 76.4%
HDD: Hitachi HUS724030ALE641 3TB - 75.5%
HDD: Hitachi HUA722020ALA331 2TB - 61.4%
RAM: Unknown F3200UA8G 2x8GB - 119%
MBD: Asrock x370m Pro4


----------



## NdMk2o1o (Feb 3, 2019)

Final_Fighter said:


> thought i would post my user benchmark score.
> 
> UserBenchmarks: Game 77%, Desk 92%, Work 86%
> CPU: Ryzen 5 1600 - 97.1%
> ...


What's your vcore for that 4ghz oc?


----------



## Final_Fighter (Feb 3, 2019)

bios voltage settings are:

With smt on its at 1.8750v@4.025ghz
With smt off its at 1.4250v@4.050ghz

both are prime stable btw. i cannot get the chip stable at 4.050ghz with smt on know matter how much voltage i throw at it. with smt off i can get it to 4.1ghz but that requires the max voltage setting in the bios, that translates to 1.6v. i know that the ryzen 5 1600x will boost the core voltage all the way up to 1.53v to maintain 4.1ghz on a single core so im not worried about setting the voltage in the 1.4-1.45v range for longtime use. just keep it cool.

edit: also to getting my ram stable at 3266 was by accident. i cross flashed a different bios onto my board and was messing with overclocking. my board is actually an asrock ab350m pro4 but i flashed the x370m pro4 bios onto it. (i have a whole thread about this). for whatever reason the 3266 would not pass memtest overnight on the original bios so i always just ran it at 3200. after flashing the x370m pro4 bios i discovered the board would take a slightly higher overclock. i dont know why but all i know is that it works better with the x370m pro4 bios.

without getting into details i can show some examples and show you what ive tried and what worked and did not work in my case. what ive found is that my motherboard(ab350m pro4) will take and run the following bioses:

Asrock AB350M Pro4 R2.0
Asrock X370 Taichi
Asrock X370 Killer SLI
Asrock X370 Gaming X
Asrock B450M Pro4
Asrock AB350 Pro4 ----- (if you think having 1.5v to your ram will get you a more stable overclock than this is the best bios to flash)

and posibly more, i have not tested every single one nor do i plan to.

those are all links to benchmarks i did on my ab350m pro4 running different bioses. you can see that the hardware is the same (minus the gpu at times) as mine so there is some proof and im not just making this up. what ive discovered in my case is that if the motherboard bios i am trying to use has 4 ram slots it will work with my board. if i flashed a bios from one of the other boards that only has 2 slots than the board would boot and immediately lock up. this is about as simple of a summary of my experiences that i can provide.

as far as functionality with the different bioses goes i can say that all b450 and x470 have a different fan controller or the bios handles it different than the a320, b350, x370 and flashing say the ab450m pro4 bios caused my fans to spin at 100%.

im not promoting people do this but if you have an ab350m pro4 and think you need more than 1.4v for your ram you can flash the ab350 pro4 bios and it will let you set the volts all the way to 1.5. it sadly does not allow you to adjust the soc voltage (nor did any of the bioses i cross flashed). the only bios that yielded any benefit was the ab350 pro4 and the x370m pro4 bioses. the rest did not allow anymore functionality.

it was kinda cool tho to think i had a Taichi but oh well.

this is just my experience and im not promoting people to cross flash a different bios onto there board. this was all in curiosity, plus i have the tools to flash the bios back at any time if something goes wrong.


----------



## krusha03 (Feb 3, 2019)

Hey guys what would be a good benchmark to show Ryzen scaling with memory speed? Games? 3DMark? I can run my system with 4 sticks @ 2866 MHz or 2 sticks @ 3200 MHz and I want to quantify the performance I would be loosing


----------



## Mussels (Feb 3, 2019)

krusha03 said:


> Hey guys what would be a good benchmark to show Ryzen scaling with memory speed? Games? 3DMark? I can run my system with 4 sticks @ 2866 MHz or 2 sticks @ 3200 MHz and I want to quantify the performance I would be loosing



LinpackX showed it preatty clearly for me as i OCd my ram


----------



## NdMk2o1o (Feb 3, 2019)

Final_Fighter said:


> bios voltage settings are:
> 
> With smt on its at 1.8750v@4.025ghz
> With smt off its at 1.4250v@4.050ghz
> ...


I run 3.8ghz most of the time at 1.3v or 3.9 at 1.375 both of which I'm fine with, for 4ghz benches I need about 1.43-1.45 and even though my temps don't exceed 70c running cpuz stress test I feel kinda uncomfortable running that vcore 24/7 



krusha03 said:


> Hey guys what would be a good benchmark to show Ryzen scaling with memory speed? Games? 3DMark? I can run my system with 4 sticks @ 2866 MHz or 2 sticks @ 3200 MHz and I want to quantify the performance I would be loosing


Yea 3d mark and any game benchmarks you have /can download should give you a pretty good idea imo you might want to look at non gaming apps also, cinebench, ryzen blender, aida64 etc


----------



## Vya Domus (Feb 3, 2019)

krusha03 said:


> I want to quantify the performance I would be loosing



You wouldn't lose much, the whole high memory speeds thing for Ryzen is overestimated.


----------



## Darmok N Jalad (Feb 3, 2019)

I guess I’m fairly lucky with my 2400G. I only need around 1.38v to get 4.05ghz. It’s stable at less than that, other than waking from sleep.


----------



## NdMk2o1o (Feb 3, 2019)

Darmok N Jalad said:


> I guess I’m fairly lucky with my 2400G. I only need around 1.38v to get 4.05ghz. It’s stable at less than that, other than waking from sleep.


2nd gen or ryzen + hits higher frequencies with less voltage than 1st gen


----------



## Vya Domus (Feb 3, 2019)

My 1700X hits 4 ghz with 1.35V and I have noticed upon launch a lot of people had to push 1.45V+ to hit 4 Ghz, it seems like something has changed over this period of time. Either the silicon got better or newer boards/BIOS had something to do with this.


----------



## NdMk2o1o (Feb 3, 2019)

Vya Domus said:


> My 1700X hits 4 ghz with 1.35V and I have noticed upon launch a lot of people had to push 1.45V+ to hit 4 Ghz, it seems like something has changed over this period of time. Either the silicon got better or newer boards/BIOS had something to do with this.


Not sure if it's a trend with newer 1700x's or perhaps you just got a really good chip either way that's pretty good


----------



## krusha03 (Feb 3, 2019)

NdMk2o1o said:


> Yea 3d mark and any game benchmarks you have /can download should give you a pretty good idea imo you might want to look at non gaming apps also, cinebench, ryzen blender, aida64 etc



In cinebench the results are negligible (~2% more). According to what I find online for gaming this should be in the order of 5-8% and if that's the case I will just sell the 2 extra sticks of ram since I don't really need 32GB anyway and I hope if I ever do need it,  faster / higher capacity DDR4 will be cheaper.


----------



## Darmok N Jalad (Feb 3, 2019)

NdMk2o1o said:


> 2nd gen or ryzen + hits higher frequencies with less voltage than 1st gen


The 2400G is still on 14nm, but it does have some improvements that Zen 1.5 (12nm) had.  It’s also a late model 14nm Zen, and I suspect it’s binned really well to be a 3.9ghz product at 65W. The lesser chips get to be 2200Gs. I sometimes wonder if the OC is really worth it anyway, as this chip seems content to boost to 3.9 most of the time—especially when not using the IGP.


----------



## NdMk2o1o (Feb 3, 2019)

Darmok N Jalad said:


> The 2400G is still on 14nm, but it does have some improvements that Zen 1.5 (12nm) had.  It’s also a late model 14nm Zen, and I suspect it’s binned really well to be a 3.9ghz product at 65W. The lesser chips get to be 2200Gs. I sometimes wonder if the OC is really worth it anyway, as this chip seems content to boost to 3.9 most of the time—especially when not using the IGP.


I'd say probably not then in that case as you will benefit from lower clocks and power when the chip is idle as opposed to running 3.9 constantly with no power saving features on when overclocking, unless of course you know how to overclock using the pstates though I couldn't get my head around them tbh


----------



## Final_Fighter (Feb 3, 2019)

ive been running my proc sense launch with 1.425v. hasn't hurt a thing.


----------



## Hardi (Feb 6, 2019)

got some new ram

UserBenchmarks: Game 143%, Desk 155%, Work 150%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 2700X - *107.5%*
GPU: Nvidia GTX 1080-Ti - *174.8%*
SSD: Samsung 970 EVO Plus 500GB - *327.6%*
SSD: Samsung 850 Pro 1TB - *122.9%*
RAM: G.SKILL F4 DDR4 3600 C16 2x8GB - *120.7%*
MBD: Gigabyte X470 AORUS GAMING 7 WIFI


----------



## sam_86314 (Feb 7, 2019)

Still a work in progress, but I have Ryzen up from the blue team. Gone from an i7-2600K to an R5 2600X.


----------



## Flyordie (Feb 7, 2019)

This new 1900X isn't the best. Im topping out around 4.2Ghz with 1.4125V..  Previous one would hit 4.3Ghz on 1.425V but not sustained as it would saturate the Enermax TR4 AIO.


----------



## sam_86314 (Feb 8, 2019)

Installing the R1 and speeding up my RAM to 2933MHz made a pretty decent improvement.

Before: Stock cooler and memory @2400MHz





After: Cryorig R1 Ultimate and memory @2933MHz


----------



## biffzinker (Feb 8, 2019)

sam_86314 said:


> Installing the R1 and speeding up my RAM to 2933MHz made a pretty decent improvement.
> 
> Before: Stock cooler and memory @2400MHz
> 
> ...


How tight are the memory timings?


----------



## sam_86314 (Feb 8, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> How tight are the memory timings?


16-18-18-38-67


----------



## biffzinker (Feb 8, 2019)

sam_86314 said:


> 16-18-18-38-67


Should be able to tighten up those timings a bit since your running under 3000. Have you tried 15-17-17-17-35-63?


----------



## sam_86314 (Feb 8, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> Should be able to tighten up those timings a bit since your running under 3000. Have you tried 15-17-17-17-35-63?


CL doesn't want to go under 16, so I have it at 16-17-17-35-67. Benchmark didn't really change.


----------



## btarunr (Feb 8, 2019)

Latest MSI BIOS embeds AGESA 1.0.0.6, which is known to improve memory OC/timings headroom.


----------



## Mussels (Feb 8, 2019)

gigabyte have new bios for their x370... F24d has been removed and replaced with F25, no posted differences


----------



## sam_86314 (Feb 8, 2019)

Updated bios to latest version and sped memory up to rated speed of 3000MHz (reset timings too)




Single core score jumped to 4817, multi core at 22813.


----------



## NdMk2o1o (Feb 8, 2019)

sam_86314 said:


> Updated bios to latest version and sped memory up to rated speed of 3000MHz (reset timings too)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


tried for 3200 or tighter timings? my Teamgroup 3000 cas 16.18.18 will do 3200 14.17.17 not bad for the cheapest 3000mhz kit I could find


----------



## sam_86314 (Feb 9, 2019)

For some reason CL still won't go under 16 even with the latest bios. I'm new to tweaking memory timings.


----------



## Mussels (Feb 9, 2019)

Mobo arrived for my ITX system at last (sold the old one)
Had a 2200G, traded that for a first gen R3 1400

R3 1400
16GB Corsair 2667Mhz RGB goodness
Asus B450-i

Currently stressing at 3.8Ghz 1.35V, 60C LinX load on the 120mm RGB HSF


----------



## Durvelle27 (Feb 10, 2019)

Need some new RAM. Every since my PSU died my RAM can no longer sustain above 2666MHz 

Might wait I until 3rd gen drops though and upgrade CPU, RAM, and Mobo


----------



## NdMk2o1o (Feb 10, 2019)

Durvelle27 said:


> Need some new RAM. Every since my PSU died my RAM can no longer sustain above 2666MHz
> 
> Might wait I until 3rd gen drops though and upgrade CPU, RAM, and Mobo


Wonder if it might have took one of those sticks with it or a ram slot


----------



## Mussels (Feb 10, 2019)

the ryzen 1400 is underrated, its getting exactly half the score my CPU gets in benches - because its got half the cores

I dont see any situation it cant handle at 3.8Ghz, for gaming


----------



## GoldenX (Feb 10, 2019)

Mussels said:


> the ryzen 1400 is underrated, its getting exactly half the score my CPU gets in benches - because its got half the cores
> 
> I dont see any situation it cant handle at 3.8Ghz, for gaming


No one paid any attention to the low end Zen1s, and they are monsters.
The only thing holding me back to not having a perfect 30FPS on Persona 5 (a game that uses all 7 threads of the PS3, all the time) is missing SMT from my 1200, I'm at 27 or 28 with only 4 threads.
You can get 4GHz from it, but you need 1,4-1,45v, and some good cooling. In summer here I reach 85º when doing 3,9GHz @ 1,35v, with the Wraith Stealth (the smallest one).


----------



## Durvelle27 (Feb 10, 2019)

NdMk2o1o said:


> Wonder if it might have took one of those sticks with it or a ram slot


I wouldn’t think so

As all 32GB shows up and it’s passes memtest


----------



## Dbiggs9 (Feb 13, 2019)

Why is my 2700 only doing 3.2Ghz? I let everything auto and it never boost to 4.1 never goes higher then 3.2


----------



## sam_86314 (Feb 13, 2019)

Dbiggs9 said:


> Why is my 2700 only doing 3.2Ghz? I let everything auto and it never boost to 4.1 never goes higher then 3.2


What power state is set in the bios?

Also what temps are you getting?


----------



## Dbiggs9 (Feb 13, 2019)

Temps are 60C i have not found anything that says power state in bios it's a MSI ITX


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 13, 2019)

60c................doing what? Idle? Load? If the latter, what loads??


----------



## Dbiggs9 (Feb 13, 2019)

45C ideal 60C doing most things 70C 100% load over 5 min


----------



## Mussels (Feb 13, 2019)

reset your BIOS? sounds like you might have an OC going on


----------



## btarunr (Feb 13, 2019)

Try to re-install your cooler. Those temperatures aren't normal for a 2700.


----------



## Dbiggs9 (Feb 15, 2019)

Mussels said:


> reset your BIOS? sounds like you might have an OC going on



You where 100% correct, I got CPU at stock speeds running  0.9v stable temps stay below 60C. 
im starting to understand Ryzen now


----------



## btarunr (Feb 26, 2019)

MSI posted B450 and X470 motherboard BIOS updates that polish memory support even more. AGESA is still Pinnacle_1.0.0.6.


----------



## GoldenX (Feb 26, 2019)

btarunr said:


> MSI posted B450 and X470 motherboard BIOS updates that polish memory support even more. AGESA is still Pinnacle_1.0.0.6.


Got it for my B350 too. No visible change, must be the stick's limit.


----------



## Mussels (Feb 26, 2019)

was asked to build a very low budget build for a friends mum whose PC is dying, and realised ryzen is perfect

Cheapo board, Athlon 200GE...
You can actually make a budget PC that works for now, with a super easy upgrade path to absurd CPU's later


----------



## biffzinker (Feb 27, 2019)

Just for kicks I disabled XFR, and PBO. Running at base clock speed but it doesn't feel slowed down to me.


----------



## robot zombie (Feb 27, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> Just for kicks I disabled XFR, and PBO. Running at base clock speed but it doesn't feel slowed down to me.


That's why I don't bother maxing it or even stepping down to 4.2 anymore. I'm pretty happy with it down at 4ghz.

Heat ramps up significantly and it benches better, but general perceived performance isn't noticeably better. I guess Zen+ doesn't really scale like that. Or perhaps it's just that clock speeds don't do much for my usage. I prefer to take advantage of the fact that cooling demands drop off quite a lot when you turn it down from "11" to "8-9ish" and just appreciate the fact that I can run a near-silent build and not even notice a performance loss. 2600 is massively more power efficient when you go easier on it. For me, the sweet spot seems to be 4.1 or even 4ghz all-core. It does those at a measly 1.23v and 1.13v respectively.  To do 4.2 I need 1.31 (less before the b-die came into the picture.) To do a STABLE 4.25 I'm looking at voltages upwards of 1.37. At that point, you're still racking up decent gains... it's just not a lot to show for just how much more wattage and heat that configuration brings about.

That's actually how I've always felt about the 2600, going back to when I left it stock only, boosting up to 3.9ghz. I still debate on running it like that and using Ryzen Master to boost up when the oomph is needed. It's a respectable, versatile, and efficient midrange CPU that really doesn't require much to fully appreciate. Generally just very well balanced to a nice, all-rounder setup. Drop the stock cooler on and go. Save a little money and yet want for little. A lot of people simply do not need more than the 2600/x gives you out of the box. And really, you already get most of what it has to offer out of it even before you start tinkering with it.


----------



## Dbiggs9 (Feb 27, 2019)

My current Ryzen 2700 has 16GB of 2400mhz, A few members suggested i overclock them before replacing them i tried and this is the worst set anyone could ever get! So to replacing them the replacement sticks will end up in a Ryzen 3 series builds so what speed and Timing should i look for or should i wait till and order with the 3 series Ryzen?


----------



## Mussels (Feb 28, 2019)

Dbiggs9 said:


> My current Ryzen 2700 has 16GB of 2400mhz, A few members suggested i overclock them before replacing them i tried and this is the worst set anyone could ever get! So to replacing them the replacement sticks will end up in a Ryzen 3 series builds so what speed and Timing should i look for or should i wait till and order with the 3 series Ryzen?


3200 C14 is considered the sweet spot by many, so aim for around that


----------



## ratirt (Feb 28, 2019)

Dbiggs9 said:


> My current Ryzen 2700 has 16GB of 2400mhz, A few members suggested i overclock them before replacing them i tried and this is the worst set anyone could ever get! So to replacing them the replacement sticks will end up in a Ryzen 3 series builds so what speed and Timing should i look for or should i wait till and order with the 3 series Ryzen?


I got 2700X equipped with Flare X 3200 CL 14 and you can see the difference especially going from 2400.


----------



## phill (Mar 13, 2019)

I finally got the boards I was after for my two 1700X's....






I'm hoping to get time over this weekend to get them setup and running


----------



## sam_86314 (Mar 13, 2019)

phill said:


> I finally got the boards I was after for my two 1700X's....
> 
> View attachment 118633
> 
> I'm hoping to get time over this weekend to get them setup and running


I look forward to comparing my R20 results to yours...


----------



## phill (Mar 13, 2019)

I'm not sure they'll be going much past stock as these two rigs will be for my 6 year old daughter and my girl friend   But I'll see if I can get a bit of overclocking done, even with an air cooler   I'll have to do a bit of reading to find out how hot these run just out of interest since I'll be putting them both under WCG


----------



## NdMk2o1o (Mar 13, 2019)

phill said:


> I finally got the boards I was after for my two 1700X's....
> 
> View attachment 118633
> 
> I'm hoping to get time over this weekend to get them setup and running


How many postit notes????  

Are you just running the Wraith Max/Spire coolers? should be good for stock settings and max boost either way. 

Looks like you have a busy weekend ahead of you, I'm kinda jealous


----------



## phill (Mar 13, 2019)

NdMk2o1o said:


> How many postit notes????
> 
> Are you just running the Wraith Max/Spire coolers? should be good for stock settings and max boost either way.
> 
> Looks like you have a busy weekend ahead of you, I'm kinda jealous



One of the old buildings work used to use got cleared out and things just thrown out, so I picked a few things up   There's probably more downstairs somewhere lol  My daughter loves them 

At the moment, no cooler as the 1700X's I bought never came with one.  That said I have a D14 and another 140mm sized heatsink combo in the loft, so I'll be giving them a go, even if I have to just place them on top the CPU 
I must get it done, want to make sure they work as I've another Hero 6 on the way and I'll sell the non Wi-Fi version I have now


----------



## lexluthermiester (Mar 14, 2019)

phill said:


> I finally got the boards I was after for my two 1700X's....
> 
> View attachment 118633
> 
> I'm hoping to get time over this weekend to get them setup and running


Those are good OCing boards. You should be able to get a solid 4ghz out of those 1700x's!



phill said:


> I'm not sure they'll be going much past stock as these two rigs will be for my 6 year old daughter and my girl friend


Give it a try anyway. Should be easy.


----------



## infrared (Mar 26, 2019)

While I have my pc apart for maintenance I decided to lap my 1800x, it took about 30mins starting at 800 then 1200, it was looking pretty good so went straight to 3000 grit to finish up. Not perfectly mirror polished but very flat. 



Spoiler













Spoiler


----------



## Super XP (Mar 26, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Those are good OCing boards. You should be able to get a solid 4ghz out of those 1700x's!
> 
> 
> Give it a try anyway. Should be easy.


WOw is that your PC Desk lol, nice



infrared said:


> While I have my pc apart for maintenance I decided to lap it my 1800x, took about 30mins started at 800 then 1200, it was looking pretty good so went straight to 3000 grit to finish up. Not perfectly mirror polished but very flat.


Awesome,


----------



## Johan45 (Mar 26, 2019)

infrared said:


> While I have my pc apart for maintenance I decided to lap my 1800x, it took about 30mins starting at 800 then 1200, it was looking pretty good so went straight to 3000 grit to finish up. Not perfectly mirror polished but very flat.
> 
> 
> Spoiler



But does it help at all?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Mar 26, 2019)

infrared said:


> While I have my pc apart for maintenance I decided to lap my 1800x, it took about 30mins starting at 800 then 1200, it was looking pretty good so went straight to 3000 grit to finish up. Not perfectly mirror polished but very flat.


Perfectly respectable job. Doesn't really need a mirror finish because the TIM will fill into the microscopic gaps.



Super XP said:


> WOw is that your PC Desk lol, nice


? What desk are you talking about?


----------



## infrared (Mar 26, 2019)

Johan45 said:


> But does it help at all?


Dunno yet, I'll try to get it all back together tomorrow. I didnt bother getting 'before' temps as I didn't really plan on doing this.. I've never been particularly happy with temps, I remember it would hit mid 70s when at full load 1.45V. When I took the waterblock off there was a fairly thick layer of paste over the die area so that makes sense, and the block is already lapped so I know that's flat.

I'll report back tomorrow


----------



## phill (Mar 26, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Those are good OCing boards. You should be able to get a solid 4ghz out of those 1700x's!
> 
> Give it a try anyway. Should be easy.



I'll have to stop them running WCG for a bit to install Windows I guess  :lol:  Hopefully when I get a bit more time... My daughter coming down to see me this weekend, so will definitely be busy....

EDIT - 




I forgot this pic...  They've been up and testing with WCG for the last week, no complaints here at all 





These things are beasts!! 

I'll need to get Windows installed and get testing I think....  Both rigs completely at stock so there's a lot of potential there still


----------



## Johan45 (Mar 27, 2019)

infrared said:


> Dunno yet, I'll try to get it all back together tomorrow. I didnt bother getting 'before' temps as I didn't really plan on doing this.. I've never been particularly happy with temps, I remember it would hit mid 70s when at full load 1.45V. When I took the waterblock off there was a fairly thick layer of paste over the die area so that makes sense, and the block is already lapped so I know that's flat.
> 
> I'll report back tomorrow


I was being a bit facetious, I think I already know the answer. Temps improve but still the same OC


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (Mar 27, 2019)

AMD is clearing inventory so prices are dropping fast!
I picked up a Ryzen 5 1600/ ASRock b450 pro4/ PC red dragon rx570 4gb/ 2x4gb 2666/ Cooler Master 80+ white 500w/ 240gb Inland pro ssd for $397.98 after tax...
The R5 1600 is $79.99 at Microcenter and you get $30 off with purchase of a compatible motherboard... The price of the Pro4 was $45 after discount...$125 for both is awesome and leaves a cheap upgrade path.


----------



## kapone32 (Mar 27, 2019)

jmcslob said:


> AMD is clearing inventory so prices are dropping fast!
> I picked up a Ryzen 5 1600/ ASRock b450 pro4/ PC red dragon rx570 4gb/ 2x4gb 2666/ Cooler Master 80+ white 500w/ 240gb Inland pro ssd for $397.98 after tax...
> The R5 1600 is $79.99 at Microcenter and you get $30 off with purchase of a compatible motherboard... The price of the Pro4 was $45 after discount...$125 for both is awesome and leaves a cheap upgrade path.




I wish I lived near a Microcenter those prices are unheard of in Canada. $79.99 for a 6 core processor is sweet but $45 for a MB is ridiculous.


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (Mar 27, 2019)

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/general-nonsense.232862/post-4018308
Right... It's hard to believe but I can't afford Newegg prices anymore.
Newegg seems to hold a premium over MSRP for far too long whereas Microcenter drops the premium price within 30 days of launch and usually offers a 20% or better price drop within 6 months...GFX's being the exception.


----------



## biffzinker (Mar 27, 2019)

Interesting picks Techspot settled on for their best cpus of 2019.

Best All-Round Value CPU - AMD Ryzen 5 2600 $165
Best Value CPU for Productivity - AMD Ryzen 7 2700 $220
Best Gaming CPU - Intel Core i7-8700K $380
Best Extreme Desktop CPU - AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2950X $800
Best Budget CPU - AMD Ryzen 3 2200G $95

Unusual seeing four AMD CPUs as recommendations for purchase. Anyways don't want to take away from the Zen refugee that this thread is.


----------



## kapone32 (Mar 27, 2019)

jmcslob said:


> https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/general-nonsense.232862/post-4018308
> Right... It's hard to believe but I can't afford Newegg prices anymore.
> Newegg seems to hold a premium over MSRP for far too long whereas Microcenter drops the premium price within 30 days of launch and usually offers a 20% or better price drop within 6 months...GFX's being the exception.



I know exactly what you are saying. Newegg.com had the X399 Phantom Gaming 6 for $249.99 US (MSRP) I try to buy one and they tell me I can't. I say to the rep that this is the first time I have not been able to buy a product on Newegg.com to ship to Canada. 2 days later the board gets listed on Newegg.ca for $444 which is $330 US so a premium of almost $90 just because of Canada (Good thing I ordered one from another site that did ship to Canada). Even the 1600 is $199.99 in Canada on sale. I wish MIcrocenter would setup shop in Canada we need a 4th competitor now that Tiger Direct and NCIX are gone. It only leaves Amazon and Newegg for online and Canada Computers for retail. I do find though that Canada Computers can have some decent sales. Recently they had a Gigabyte RX570 on sale for $139.99



biffzinker said:


> Interesting picks Techspot settled on for their best cpus of 2019.
> 
> Best All-Round Value CPU - AMD Ryzen 5 2600 $165
> Best Value CPU for Productivity - AMD Ryzen 7 2700 $220
> ...



That seems to reflect Amazon.com's top 10 selling CPUs. WIth the exception of the 2950X


----------



## Mussels (Apr 30, 2019)

my mobo has a BIOS update for the upcoming ryzen CPU's that enabled a previously broken feature (bclck overclocking)
Interestingly i cant OC my ram much/at all past 3200 without black screen bugs, but the CPU has some headroom left.


----------



## btarunr (Apr 30, 2019)

ASUS putting out Zen2 BIOS updates, boys.

Expect the "Combo" AGESA to break your memory OC, though. I've myself experienced worse memory OC than with PinnaclePI 1.0.0.6.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 30, 2019)

looks like its a BIOS update kind of day


----------



## ratirt (Apr 30, 2019)

Mussels said:


> my mobo has a BIOS update for the upcoming ryzen CPU's that enabled a previously broken feature (bclck overclocking)
> Interestingly i cant OC my ram much/at all past 3200 without black screen bugs, but the CPU has some headroom left.
> View attachment 122030



Did you manually OC'ed the 2700x to 4.5Ghz or is it the XFR? That's pretty impresive even with water cooling. Can you shed some light on the temps you get with that OC? 

Thanks


----------



## msroadkill612 (Apr 30, 2019)

robot zombie said:


> That's why I don't bother maxing it or even stepping down to 4.2 anymore. I'm pretty happy with it down at 4ghz.
> 
> Heat ramps up significantly and it benches better, but general perceived performance isn't noticeably better. I guess Zen+ doesn't really scale like that. Or perhaps it's just that clock speeds don't do much for my usage. I prefer to take advantage of the fact that cooling demands drop off quite a lot when you turn it down from "11" to "8-9ish" and just appreciate the fact that I can run a near-silent build and not even notice a performance loss. 2600 is massively more power efficient when you go easier on it. For me, the sweet spot seems to be 4.1 or even 4ghz all-core. It does those at a measly 1.23v and 1.13v respectively.  To do 4.2 I need 1.31 (less before the b-die came into the picture.) To do a STABLE 4.25 I'm looking at voltages upwards of 1.37. At that point, you're still racking up decent gains... it's just not a lot to show for just how much more wattage and heat that configuration brings about.
> 
> That's actually how I've always felt about the 2600, going back to when I left it stock only, boosting up to 3.9ghz. I still debate on running it like that and using Ryzen Master to boost up when the oomph is needed. It's a respectable, versatile, and efficient midrange CPU that really doesn't require much to fully appreciate. Generally just very well balanced to a nice, all-rounder setup. Drop the stock cooler on and go. Save a little money and yet want for little. A lot of people simply do not need more than the 2600/x gives you out of the box. And really, you already get most of what it has to offer out of it even before you start tinkering with it.


If i undestand you correctly, I am similarly inclined. Meh, I will wait til I am starved for cpu power til I fuss with the extra heat and noise.

What does appeal is the auto tuning that comes with Zen+ tho, as much cos it dynamically dpwn tunes under light load as for its dynamic up tunes when under load.

IMO it would work better than a more fixed but higher clock, as the dynamism would result in a better heat envelope for bursts/spikes of load.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 30, 2019)

ratirt said:


> Did you manually OC'ed the 2700x to 4.5Ghz or is it the XFR? That's pretty impresive even with water cooling. Can you shed some light on the temps you get with that OC?
> 
> Thanks



XFR, so its the single core turbo

temps are hitting 76C in various stress tests, so its thermal throttling before much else happens - not gunna try for anything stupid like all cores at 4.5ghz, the heat would be insane


----------



## NoJuan999 (Apr 30, 2019)

btarunr said:


> ASUS putting out Zen2 BIOS updates, boys.
> 
> Expect the "Combo" AGESA to break your memory OC, though. I've myself experienced worse memory OC than with PinnaclePI 1.0.0.6.


That is exactly why I am still using BIOS 1201 (AGESA 1.0.0.6) on my ROG B450-F.
My 16GB 3200 MHz Tridentz RGB is running at 3400 MHz without any issues and I have read a few posts where people have reported issues with the newer BIOS versions and OC-ing RAM.
Also the newer BIOS versions seem to have cold boot issues too.


----------



## Kursah (Apr 30, 2019)

I'm still running the last modded bios for my Strix X370-F Gaming board so I don't lose PBO options for my 2700X.

If I don't need up being able to afford getting into Zen 2, I'll check out the latest and greatest...but doesn't seem like newer firmware past December of last year really benefit me and my CPU.

Beyond reading about all the issues with RAM again, which mine is stable and I'm quite content atm.


----------



## RealNeil (Apr 30, 2019)

My financial situation has changed dramatically for the worse in the past few months. It will never change back either.
I had planned on getting into the latest CPU series from AMD right away, but now it seems that if I want to, I'll have to sell something first.

This is probably a good thing as it will ensure that I don't jump into the fire too soon.
I'll be checking reviews and scoping out everyone else's experiences before I do anything.


----------



## Mindweaver (May 23, 2019)

I'm late to the party, but last week I picked up a R5 2600 to replace my i7 2600k..lol Also, bought a B450 gigabyte board with corsair 3000 memory. I put it all together last night. I still need to overclock it, but I'll look over this thread for tips! Also, I know Ryzen 2 is coming, but I couldn't pass up the deals I got for the board and cpu. Plus, I'll give it to my daughter if I go Ryzen 2 in a few months.


----------



## kapone32 (May 23, 2019)

Mindweaver said:


> I'm late to the party, but last week I picked up a R5 2600 to replace my i7 2600k..lol Also, bought a B450 gigabyte board with corsair 3000 memory. I put it all together last night. I still need to overclock it, but I'll look over this thread for tips! Also, I know Ryzen 2 is coming, but I couldn't pass up the deals I got for the board and cpu. Plus, I'll give it to my daughter if I go Ryzen 2 in a few months.



The 2600 will OC to 4.2 with a 1.35 volt applied (not with the stock cooler). The Corsair RAM will not run at 3000 but 2933 (not that there is much difference) I have found that Gskill memory works better than Corsair with AM4. Gigabyte boards are ok and this might seem weird but the most success I have had with AM4 boards is As Rock. Gigabyte boards seem to apply more voltage than what is displayed but that was just my personal experience maybe other members who have Gigabyte AM4 boards can comment on that.



NoJuan999 said:


> That is exactly why I am still using BIOS 1201 (AGESA 1.0.0.6) on my ROG B450-F.
> My 16GB 3200 MHz Tridentz RGB is running at 3400 MHz without any issues and I have read a few posts where people have reported issues with the newer BIOS versions and OC-ing RAM.
> Also the newer BIOS versions seem to have cold boot issues too.



I will never buy another Asus AM4 board. I had 2 boards that bricked during bios updates.


----------



## GoldenX (May 23, 2019)

MSI boards have a beta BIOS for Zen2 support. I will wait for AMDs release before flashing it.


----------



## Kursah (May 23, 2019)

I installed the 4801 firmware for my Strix X370-F Gaming, and the PBO settings have returned. Now I have no reason to run a modded firmware, and 1usmus (I believe) has pretty much halted efforts to continue modding at least for now.

Still on the older 0.0.7.2a but hopefully will see 1.0 soon! 





__





						ROG STRIX X370-F GAMING | ROG Strix | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG USA
					

Experience next-level performance and personalization options with the ROG STRIX X370-F GAMING, powered by AMD® Ryzen™ AM4 processors. Unlock full calibration and customization with 5-Way Optimization featuring Fan Xpert 4, AURA Sync RGB lighting and 3D printing mounts. Onboard NVMe M.2 and...



					www.asus.com
				




In my initial testing on Cinibench, I was able to hit a top 3 score for my system, which is within 10-15 points or so of the fastest I've ever tested with modded bios. That makes me quite happy actually...the stock bios always lagged behind previously...so clearly things are getting better. Not sure if this will be a good board for the Xen 2 or not...but I'm hoping so. Though I'm in no hurry to replace the 2700X, its been a damn good CPU...but I plan at some point to get a server-grade board with out-of-band management on it, add 64GB DDR4 to it as my future virtualization core server, but gonna have to be on a tight budget... That's the "plans" at this point, what is available (right now an ASRock board) and what my budget will be when that day comes, we shall see...


----------



## kapone32 (May 23, 2019)

Kursah said:


> I installed the 4801 firmware for my Strix X370-F Gaming, and the PBO settings have returned. Now I have no reason to run a modded firmware, and 1usmus (I believe) has pretty much halted efforts to continue modding at least for now.
> 
> Still on the older 0.0.7.2a but hopefully will see 1.0 soon!
> 
> ...



That is why I went to Threadripper. The As Rock X399 Phantom Gaming 6 is $249.99 MSRP. There is no comparison in terms of raw computing power beteween AM4 and TR4. The 1st gen chips are getting cheaper. The 1900x has been in the low $400 CAD on Newegg for the past few months. I do mostly game but I also do many other things on the computer and NVME is as big a difference as HDD to SSD in some applications. In Linux though is where Threadripper shines brightly indeed. Even if if the X570 is PCI_E 4.0 it is still only 16 lanes purportedly that are to that spec so if you plug a GOU into the first slot goodbye NVME expansion. The common sense peripheral to get for TR4 is the Asus M2 Riser card. That is probably why it has doubled in price in the last 6 months. I bought mine for $67.00 on Amazon, the same listing is now $150.


----------



## Mindweaver (May 24, 2019)

kapone32 said:


> The 2600 will OC to 4.2 with a 1.35 volt applied (not with the stock cooler). *The Corsair RAM will not run at 3000 but 2933* (not that there is much difference) I have found that Gskill memory works better than Corsair with AM4. Gigabyte boards are ok and this might seem weird but the most success I have had with AM4 boards is As Rock. Gigabyte boards seem to apply more voltage than what is displayed but that was just my personal experience maybe other members who have Gigabyte AM4 boards can comment on that.


So, I haven't overclocked the CPU yet. I'm using the stock cooler atm, but I did use the 3000mhz xmp profile for my Corsair memory and it's been rock solid. Of course, watching the ram it moves 2994-3000, but I'm impressed so far. I like this Aorus board and for the price, I couldn't beat it at $74. I did start to get the AsRock board but in the end, it came down to price. lol Thanks again for the tips! I'm debating on an aio water cooler or just get the 212. I really enjoy the extra space in my case with the aio's. Now I want a new case.. lol My Cooler Master Storm Scout has a lip in the top card slot and I can't connect my display port cable for 2 of my monitors.. lol I may have to modify it tonight.. lol It's killing me to only use one monitor. I'm looking at the Phanteks P400.


----------



## Mussels (May 24, 2019)

does anyone know how to use the P-state overclocking on the aorus boards, its all in hex codes and confusing as shit (looking for a way to boost the all-core clocks, but leave XFR/turbo alone)


----------



## kapone32 (May 24, 2019)

Mindweaver said:


> So, I haven't overclocked the CPU yet. I'm using the stock cooler atm, but I did use the 3000mhz xmp profile for my Corsair memory and it's been rock solid. Of course, watching the ram it moves 2994-3000, but I'm impressed so far. I like this Aorus board and for the price, I couldn't beat it at $74. I did start to get the AsRock board but in the end, it came down to price. lol Thanks again for the tips! I'm debating on an aio water cooler or just get the 212. I really enjoy the extra space in my case with the aio's. Now I want a new case.. lol My Cooler Master Storm Scout has a lip in the top card slot and I can't connect my display port cable for 2 of my monitors.. lol I may have to modify it tonight.. lol It's killing me to only use one monitor. I'm looking at the Phanteks P400.



Thanks for the reply I guess that BIOS updates have allowed RAM to run at 3000MHZ (Good job on AMD and partners part). There is not much difference between a 212 and the stock. Some people don't think that AIO's are needed but it will definitely help out with maintaining your OC. The Storm scout was one of my favourite cases (including the 912 HAF). I know that cases are the most subjective purchase for a build but the P400 might not get as good airflow as the Deep Cool Matrex 55. I don't have one but it will definitely be going into my next customer build. The reason I like that one over the Phanteks is that you can fit 3x140 mm fans in the front.


----------



## NoJuan999 (May 24, 2019)

The 2600 OC's pretty easily with a decent cooler.
I have an Arctic 33 eSports Edition and my temps are very good (27-30C at idle and 55-56C max after a few hours of gaming).
I do have excellent airflow too though, I have 3 intake and 2 exhaust fans running from 60% and up.
Mine OC'd to 4.075 GHz at 1.35v.
I also got it to 4.1 and 4.15 GHZ at 1.39V and 1.4V but decided to run it at 3.95 GHZ because it only needed 1.33V to get 100% stable and the performance difference isn't even noticeable except on some benchmarks.


----------



## kapone32 (May 24, 2019)

NoJuan999 said:


> The 2600 OC's pretty easily with a decent cooler.
> I have an Arctic 33 eSports Edition and my temps are very good (27-30C at idle and 55-56C max after a few hours of gaming).
> I do have excellent airflow too though, I have 3 intake and 2 exhaust fans running from 60% and up.
> Mine OC'd to 4.075 GHz at 1.35v.
> I also got it to 4.1 and 4.15 GHZ at 1.39V and 1.4V but decided to run it at 3.95 GHZ because it only needed 1.33V to get 100% stable and the performance difference isn't even noticeable except on some benchmarks.



Exactly my point. I was able to get mine to 4.0 on 1.25 volts using my AIO


----------



## NoJuan999 (May 24, 2019)

kapone32 said:


> Exactly my point. I was able to get mine to 4.0 on 1.25 volts using my AIO


Nice !


----------



## Athlonite (Jun 9, 2019)

Way hey I can finally join this club (albeit sooner than intended)


----------



## purecain (Jun 9, 2019)

watch out with the AIO water cooling on your new boards. ive seen a couple of occasions where air cooling has beaten the new aio's… ive even switched to air. for now...


----------



## Athlonite (Jun 9, 2019)

purecain said:


> watch out with the AIO water cooling on your new boards. ive seen a couple of occasions where air cooling has beaten the new aio's… ive even switched to air. for now...




yeah I'm not an AIO WC fan and until I get round to making some new brackets for my Thermolab Baram i'm just using the stock Wraith Spire(RGB) which is doing an adequate job at present no OC until I get to use my much better HSF


----------



## Mussels (Jun 9, 2019)

i like my current AIO setups, but the pump noise shits me... might go back to air in the future.

Problem is the AIO on my GPU is amazing for lower temps and less noise, so i may keep just the one? hard to decide since aftermarket air coolers are so rare these days.
I have a 'night' profile in corsair iCue that sets all fans to 400RPM, lowers pump speeds and turns the lights off, and i wouldnt want to lose that sort of control when i go back to air (which i guess wont really matter, just less fans)


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (Jun 9, 2019)

Mussels said:


> i like my current AIO setups, but the pump noise shits me...


Pump noise? Ouch, I can't actually hear my silent loop 280mm/eisbaer 360mm when the pump hits up to 100% speed. I've heard some corsair units are quite noisy myself though I've never used one.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 9, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> Pump noise? Ouch, I can't actually hear my silent loop 280mm/eisbaer 360mm when the pump hits up to 100% speed. I've heard some corsair units are quite noisy myself though I've never used one.



these corsairs are the quietest AIO's i've ever used, i've had fucking garbage from fractal and NZXT

I can handle an air cooled CPU thanks to lower wattage ryzens compared to energy hungry all core OC's on the intel side, but i need the quiet GPU and that limits my future plans without expensive custom water


----------



## kapone32 (Jun 9, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> Pump noise? Ouch, I can't actually hear my silent loop 280mm/eisbaer 360mm when the pump hits up to 100% speed. I've heard some corsair units are quite noisy myself though I've never used one.



That is because Aplhacool's Eisbaer is one of the best AIOs on the market.......Once you replace the fans with some half decent 4 pins in push/pull. They are also non Asetek blocks, so you have a nice rectangular block to cover your entire IHS. I have my pumps running pretty much 100% and I can't hear them at all.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 10, 2019)

kapone32 said:


> That is because Aplhacool's Eisbaer is one of the best AIOs on the market.......Once you replace the fans with some half decent 4 pins in push/pull. They are also non Asetek blocks, so you have a nice rectangular block to cover your entire IHS. I have my pumps running pretty much 100% and I can't hear them at all.



my problem for GPU is i need asetek, using a kraken G12 :/
quality control is so hit and miss you could buy 5 of the same cooler, and they'd all sound different


----------



## kapone32 (Jun 10, 2019)

Mussels said:


> my problem for GPU is i need asetek, using a kraken G12 :/
> quality control is so hit and miss you could buy 5 of the same cooler, and they'd all sound different



Understood I used to use the G12 with a HD7950 and a Corsair H70 I found the fans to be the loudest thing about those coolers. The reason I did that was that I got the Cooler Master Nepton 280 for my CPU (another non asetek pump) and the performance was stellar in comparison once I changed the hair dryer sounding fans that came with it.


----------



## purecain (Jun 10, 2019)

check out the new noctua air cooling...  the ones with 7 heat pipes. theres a new vapour chamber cooler coming aswell that looks interesting.


----------



## btarunr (Jun 21, 2019)

Apparently you need to update your chipset drivers if you updated to Windows 1903. This gives its kernel some special abilities, such as CCX-localization.










Get those chipset drivers from AMD website, not your mobo vendor.





Benefits all Ryzen processors with >1 CCX, not just the upcoming Zen2 chips.


----------



## Kursah (Jun 21, 2019)

I ran Windows update today and had an AMD driver update. I was out the door to work, so I didn't see what it was. But remoted on (I use Anydesk for anyone interested in a solid, free, fast remote solution that isn't Teamviewer, VNC, etc...) but my driver's showing from April 2018 still. So going to dig deeper and see what that's about. Thanks for the heads up!

Edit: Latest chipset driver is from April 2019. Still showing driver date of 4/2018. I must be SoL for now on my X370. Thankfully I'm still happy with how my system's operating so I'll wait and see what happens. I am on the latest BIOS and am ready for Ryzen 3... bring it!


----------



## Mussels (Jun 22, 2019)

Kursah said:


> I ran Windows update today and had an AMD driver update. I was out the door to work, so I didn't see what it was. But remoted on (I use Anydesk for anyone interested in a solid, free, fast remote solution that isn't Teamviewer, VNC, etc...) but my driver's showing from April 2018 still. So going to dig deeper and see what that's about. Thanks for the heads up!
> 
> Edit: Latest chipset driver is from April 2019. Still showing driver date of 4/2018. I must be SoL for now on my X370. Thankfully I'm still happy with how my system's operating so I'll wait and see what happens. I am on the latest BIOS and am ready for Ryzen 3... bring it!



windows update doesnt get AMD chipset drivers, snag them from the AMD site


----------



## Kursah (Jun 22, 2019)

Mussels said:


> windows update doesnt get AMD chipset drivers, snag them from the AMD site



Yeah I did, that was part of my Edit above, sorry I should've clarified better, at that point I had downloaded the Asus chipset driver for my board. Part of the issue was I would try a clean install, it'd reboot, but the installer wouldn't run. So I did a normal install, and now my drivers state 10/2018. So newer than what I had, but not sure they're the ones that are for the newer Win 10 with improvements as shown above...





Where beta's drivers are 1.0.0.64, mine are up to 1.0.0.59 from 1.0.0.51. I guess its wait and see if Asus releases anything newer for my ol' X370...

Edit: The notes make me think maybe even though my driver version is older or behind...maybe I'm good to go? I dunno...system is performing fine so I'm not going to split hairs about it ATM...

This is what I downloaded earlier


----------



## Mussels (Jun 22, 2019)

only thing i can think of is maybe the newer drivers wont install if you're missing a windows update, unsure if you're behind on them for some reason


----------



## biffzinker (Jun 22, 2019)

Kursah said:


> Yeah I did, that was part of my Edit above, sorry I should've clarified better, at that point I had downloaded the Asus chipset driver for my board. Part of the issue was I would try a clean install, it'd reboot, but the installer wouldn't run. So I did a normal install, and now my drivers state 10/2018. So newer than what I had, but not sure they're the ones that are for the newer Win 10 with improvements as shown above...
> 
> View attachment 125465
> 
> ...


You know the chipset drivers are available at AMD's website?



			https://www.amd.com/en/support/chipsets/amd-socket-am4/x370


----------



## sam_86314 (Jun 22, 2019)

Just ran Geekbench 4 and Cinebench R20 after updating to 1903 and installing the new chipset drivers. Results were near identical to 1809.

Do we know what all is improved in 1903 for Ryzen?


----------



## Athlonite (Jun 22, 2019)

Does anyone know where I can buy this






It's for the Thermolab Baram


----------



## GoldenX (Jun 22, 2019)

sam_86314 said:


> Just ran Geekbench 4 and Cinebench R20 after updating to 1903 and installing the new chipset drivers. Results were near identical to 1809.
> 
> Do we know what all is improved in 1903 for Ryzen?


Apparently, Fire Strike from 3DMark.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 22, 2019)

Athlonite said:


> Does anyone know where I can buy this
> 
> 
> View attachment 125476
> ...


Aliexpress? Might also be on Banggood.


----------



## Athlonite (Jun 22, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Aliexpress? Might also be on Banggood.



Ah buggar nope looked through both site and tried a search for it nothing 

If anyone see's or here's of this for sale could they please let me know otherwise I'm going to have to custom fabricate the bracket that screws to the bottom of the HS ie: the 4 top left bits shown in the pic


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 22, 2019)

Athlonite said:


> Ah buggar nope looked through both site and tried a search for it nothing


Ah damn, sorry man. Have you tried ebay? That writing looks Korean, maybe look on the Korean Amazon or Ebay?


----------



## btarunr (Jun 22, 2019)

AMD Pinnacle Ridge vs. Intel Coffee Lake Refresh side-by-side comparison for recent major CVE hardening/immunity. 


AMD Pinnacle Ridge:




Intel Coffee Lake Refresh (Core i5-9400F, ASRock B365M Pro4 with v4.20 BIOS and Windows 1903):


----------



## HwGeek (Jun 22, 2019)

Any one tested the new Bios for Asus X470 boards?
Try to edit the  [of the current download links ] bios version to 5007.zip at the end- some are already hosted in their server.
For example - ASUS X470 Prime:


			https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/SocketAM4/PRIME_X470-PRO/PRIME-X470-PRO-ASUS-5007.zip
		

Saw it here: Looks like new PBO menu is added with "upto 200MHZ" Boost options:


----------



## 1986nath (Jun 22, 2019)

Update from 4204 to 4804 asus prime x470 pro,cinebench same score lost 300-400 pts firestrike and  latency increase aida64.installed latest amd chipset driver and win10 may update


----------



## HD64G (Jun 22, 2019)

sam_86314 said:


> Just ran Geekbench 4 and Cinebench R20 after updating to 1903 and installing the new chipset drivers. Results were near identical to 1809.
> 
> Do we know what all is improved in 1903 for Ryzen?


The thing that improved doesn't affect programs that use all of the cores or just one. It changes the order the cores/threads are used so that it will not use another when one is not fully utilised along with its cache.


----------



## HwGeek (Jun 22, 2019)

1986nath said:


> Update from 4204 to 4804 asus prime x470 pro,cinebench same score lost 300-400 pts firestrike and  latency increase aida64.installed latest amd chipset driver and win10 may update


There is already new bios version 5007 with new PBO options -see my comment above.


----------



## 1986nath (Jun 22, 2019)

Flash from 4804 to 5007 new pbo option.ram and soc need less voltage for me.
Memory interleaving option add.


----------



## HwGeek (Jun 22, 2019)

does  using 200mhz boost gives higher boost clocks at games/full load?


----------



## 1986nath (Jun 22, 2019)

No change on ryzen 5 2600 still cap at 3900mhz


----------



## Athlonite (Jun 22, 2019)

1986nath said:


> No change on ryzen 5 2600 still cap at 3900mhz



Normally I would have said better cooling but you already have pretty decent WC setup maybe it's just your chip


----------



## 1986nath (Jun 22, 2019)

Vcore 1.11 max boost 1.20 on all core stock clock. I dont know if it the cpu or the mb.i use hwinfo64.btw i left pbo scalar option in bios at auto.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 23, 2019)

my GA-AX370-Gaming 5  has a BIOS update with the following info

Before update BIOS to F40, you have to install EC FW Update Tool (B19.0517.1 or later version) to avoid 4DIMM DDR compatibility on 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ CPU. 

tools hosted on the same page, anyone else see similar on other boards? Curious about this requirement


----------



## biffzinker (Jun 23, 2019)

Mussels said:


> anyone else see similar on other boards?


Nothing for my board when I updated although it only has two slots.


----------



## Kursah (Jun 23, 2019)

Mussels said:


> my GA-AX370-Gaming 5  has a BIOS update with the following info
> 
> Before update BIOS to F40, you have to install EC FW Update Tool (B19.0517.1 or later version) to avoid 4DIMM DDR compatibility on 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ CPU.
> 
> tools hosted on the same page, anyone else see similar on other boards? Curious about this requirement



Negative, but that is interesting... mine hasn't had anything since last month either though and I'm still on 0.0.7.2a. Though PBO in this one seemed to improve a little.






I checked out the list for your board, looks like it is a good bit ahead of mine update-wise. I wonder if that's going to be a thing across the X370's that are receiving third gen support?






I'm assuming the update tool is included with the bios download? Let us know how it goes if you do it. Nice looking board BTW, I like that cleaner design of it..


----------



## 1986nath (Jun 23, 2019)

Nothing for my asus board,ec fw update need for my other pc (b450 aorus pro wifi)


----------



## Mussels (Jun 23, 2019)

i'm looking forward to a 3rd gen board and getting PBO/some OC options

all i can do now is 102 bclk and leave it be


----------



## GoldenX (Jun 23, 2019)

Mussels said:


> i'm looking forward to a 3rd gen board and getting PBO/some OC options
> 
> all i can do now is 102 bclk and leave it be


I could do 103 fine, but when I got my m.2 ssd, it disappears at that bclk, so I just rolled back to 100. I should try 102.

Got some performance from the 1903 update + chipset driver.


----------



## HTC (Jul 3, 2019)

Attention TaiChi X370 users: there's a new Zen 2 BIOS ready BIOS - 5.60.









						ASRock X370 Taichi
					

ATX<br />ASRock Super Alloy<br />Supports AMD AM4 Socket Ryzen Series CPUs (Summit Ridge & Raven Ridge)<br />Supports DDR4 3200+(OC)<br />2 PCIe 3.0 x16, 1 PCIe 2.0 x16, 2 PCIe 2.0 x1<br />NVIDIA Quad SLI™, AMD Quad CrossFireX™<br />7.1 CH HD Audio (Realtek ALC1220 Audio Codec), Supports Purity...




					www.asrock.com


----------



## Athlonite (Jul 3, 2019)

Mussels said:


> i'm looking forward to a 3rd gen board and getting PBO/some OC options
> 
> all i can do now is 102 bclk and leave it be



How do you change the bus clock on an Asus Tuf x470 Plus-Gaming I can't seem to find a setting to flick it up more

Also there's an BIOS update out for it to now ver: 5007


----------



## Kursah (Jul 3, 2019)

Looks like Asus released a new BIOS yesterday for my ROG Strix X370-f Gaming, version 5009. 





__





						ROG STRIX X370-F GAMING | ROG Strix | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG USA
					

Experience next-level performance and personalization options with the ROG STRIX X370-F GAMING, powered by AMD® Ryzen™ AM4 processors. Unlock full calibration and customization with 5-Way Optimization featuring Fan Xpert 4, AURA Sync RGB lighting and 3D printing mounts. Onboard NVMe M.2 and...



					www.asus.com
				








Wish there were more to the release notes...the last version was 4801. I'll have to give it a shot here soon, so far I've been pretty happy with 4801 on my 2700X.


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 3, 2019)

Likely a tweak for zen2.

Be careful what cpu you plan on dropping in that thing... those vrms arent made for zen2 and pushing clocks.


----------



## GoldenX (Jul 3, 2019)

My Zen2 beta bios dissapeared...


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 3, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Be careful what cpu you plan on dropping in that thing... those vrms arent made for zen2 and pushing clocks.


Any board capable of running a CPU of a certain wattage from the first two Ryzen gens will also be able to run a third gen CPU of similar wattage.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 3, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> My Zen2 beta bios dissapeared...


Same for the B350M Gaming Pro, wonder why MSI pulled the beta bios? Good thing I had already flashed it.


----------



## GoldenX (Jul 3, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> Same for the B350M Gaming Pro, wonder why MSI pulled the beta bios? Good thing I had already flashed it.


I hope it means they will release a stable one.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 3, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> I hope it means they will release a stable one.


I haven't had any trouble with the beta that I could say was caused by the update.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 4, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> I hope it means they will release a stable one.


Very likely.



biffzinker said:


> I haven't had any trouble with the beta that I could say was caused by the update.


And they could be turning the beta BIOS into an official release.


----------



## Kursah (Jul 9, 2019)

Kursah said:


> Looks like Asus released a new BIOS yesterday for my ROG Strix X370-f Gaming, version 5009.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My temps are higher, my PBO clocks are on average lower, my CB scores went down from 1750-90 down to 1550-1630. But gaming still seems the same, and temps are fine during those. Not sure if I'm too concerned yet.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 9, 2019)

Kursah said:


> My temps are higher, my PBO clocks are on average lower, my CB scores went down from 1750-90 down to 1550-1630. But gaming still seems the same, and temps are fine during those. Not sure if I'm too concerned yet.


pay note to GoldenX , for the scheduler improvements that were put into win 10 for ryzen, you need 1903 with all updates and the latest system drivers from amd , this gave me a noticeable improvement.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 9, 2019)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> pay note to GoldenX , for the scheduler improvements that were put into win 10 for ryzen, you need 1903 with all updates and the latest system drivers from amd , this gave me a noticeable improvement.


Worked out the same for me but AMD saying they improved the chipset driver installer footprint on disk space is a negative. What good does it do me to have the Windows 7 drivers if I'm running Windows 10 nvm it duplicates the same drivers in C:\Users\...\AppData\Roaming which amounts to 464 MB of wasted space for just chipset drivers.


----------



## GoldenX (Jul 9, 2019)

There's also the C:\AMD folder.


----------



## Kursah (Jul 9, 2019)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> pay note to GoldenX , for the scheduler improvements that were put into win 10 for ryzen, you need 1903 with all updates and the latest system drivers from amd , this gave me a noticeable improvement.



Been on 1903 since it released. Did the chipset drivers direct from AMD on June 21 following @biffzinker suggestion on the previous page. 

Unfortunately, I didn't see a noticeable improvement then, and what appears to be a benchmark performance degradation after firmware upgrade. So clearly something isn't quite right here, and I'll be glad to fix it if all it takes is a chipset driver update (again).

I may re-install the AMD direct drivers again...scratch that....looks like ASUS just recently (finally) released updated chipset drivers that I'm installing now. Will report back, rebooting now.



Edit: Well initial CB15 showing I'm up to about 1650. But still a far cry from the 1780-1802 I was able to get before. Not sure that really matters. My gaming performance is still perfectly fine...but thinking this 5009 firmware changed a few more things. There are also some new PBO settings and features I may need to mess with or disable even. We shall see.


----------



## GoldenX (Jul 9, 2019)

Raise all PBO settings to the max.


----------



## Frick (Jul 12, 2019)

I did just order an Asrock B450M-HDV, 16GB G.skill Aegis DDR4 3000Mhz C16, a Ryzen 1200 and a 240GB Kingston A400 for a total of about €200. I'm giving away the computer in specs and realized I want something else and I realized the 1200's are dirt cheap. Shall try some light overclocking when I get it. May pick up a 2600 in the fall/winter if I find one used or at a big sale. My first full time AMD setup since the Athlon 64 Venice. I doubt this one will do +50% clocks.


----------



## GoldenX (Jul 12, 2019)

Frick said:


> I did just order an Asrock B450M-HDV, 16GB G.skill Aegis DDR4 3000Mhz C16, a Ryzen 1200 and a 240GB Kingston A400 for a total of about €200. I'm giving away the computer in specs and realized I want something else and I realized the 1200's are dirt cheap. Shall try some light overclocking when I get it. May pick up a 2600 in the fall/winter if I find one used or at a big sale. My first full time AMD setup since the Athlon 64 Venice. I doubt this one will do +50% clocks.


Not 50%, but you can squeeze a 30% with a bit of luck out of that 1200. It's not hard to do 4GHz.

Installed the "lite" UEFI on my board, I love it, feels like a proper, old BIOS, fast and debloated.
Now I don't want the old interface.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 14, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> Not 50%, but you can squeeze a 30% with a bit of luck out of that 1200. It's not hard to do 4GHz.
> 
> Installed the "lite" UEFI on my board, I love it, feels like a proper, old BIOS, fast and debloated.
> Now I don't want the old interface.



not all of them will do 4ghz, my 1400 would seem stable at 3.9 but i had to drop to 3.7 to avoid random crashes and freezes that would only happen under certain heavy loads (VR games, for me)


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 14, 2019)

Mussels said:


> not all of them will do 4ghz, my 1400 would seem stable at 3.9 but i had to drop to 3.7 to avoid random crashes and freezes that would only happen under certain heavy loads (VR games, for me)


The Ryzen 3 1200 I still have only overclocked to 3.7 GHz.


----------



## GamerGuy (Jul 14, 2019)

Hoping to finally join the Zen club in August when I get back home, right now, I have ordered 4x8GB of DDR4 3200 c16 RAM, and sourcing a 3900X. Hope to snag one soon, I will know by Monday.....


----------



## Mussels (Jul 14, 2019)

looking at boards for people to upgrade for ryzen 3000 is a nightmare, with all these problems due to too small BIOS chips...

... and all the cheaper x570 just look like shit. i swear its deliberate, i dont like the looks of any of them.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 14, 2019)

Mussels said:


> with all these problems due to too small BIOS chips...


The throwback GUI MSI used I prefer over the flashy interface so the constraints of to small BIOS worked in my favor.

Screenshots of the stripped down Click BIOS interface.








						BIOS ROM Size Limitations Almost Derail AMD's Zen2 Backwards Compatibility Promise
					

I would assume so evilhf. It was a beta bios, which was removed, right? A buddy of mine saw that as well for a B350 board from MSI. Just checked the MSI website, the latest bios for this board is from January 23rd of 2019...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Mussels (Jul 14, 2019)

i had a buyer for my x370 board and ryzen 1400, tempted to just tell him to buy a b350 and upgrade only the CPU, until the boards improve
while there are $250Au boards out, they just look terrible to me and i dont need PCI-E 4 or faster M.2 slots yet

(i'm selling the 1400, and moving my 2700x to the ITX rig)


----------



## Xzibit (Jul 14, 2019)

Mussels said:


> looking at boards for people to upgrade for ryzen 3000 is a nightmare, *with all these problems due to too small BIOS chips...*
> 
> ... and all the cheaper x570 just look like shit. i swear its deliberate, i dont like the looks of any of them.



If small bioses is a issue avoid X570 Gigabytes. They all have 128/16 bioses. They are the only X570 maker that stuck to small bios.

Sell them a PC case with solid panels. Should be looking at the screen not the inside of the PC anyways


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 14, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> The throwback GUI MSI used I prefer over the flashy interface so the constraints of to small BIOS worked in my favor.



Yeah, I might also be in the minority here; I prefer stuff that's laid out into the classic tabbed lists where I can easily find it. It's BIOS, I couldn't care less if they tried to make it look like Windows. I'm here to get stuff done and get out. I've gotten so used to the H97N-WIFI's old BIOS that I was very grateful that Gigabyte still kept the design as default view on the B350I Aorus that I built for a friend last month.

That said, it might be early, but I'm not liking the prices and availability I'm seeing for R7 3700X and X570 ITX here in Canada. $459 for the CPU and $289 for the X570 Aorus, the only X570 ITX board right now whereas there should be Asus and ASRock ones too. 

Does anyone know if the X570 consumption is going to be a problem? I don't like the looks of the tiny fan on the Aorus, but if that means it won't burn up the M.2 sitting on top of it like the fan-less Strix, then I might just have to go for it......1TB TLC NVMe M.2s aren't cheap...

I'm definitely making the switch though; it's been a hell of an entertaining ride watching Intel's slide into Pentium hell again, but they'll be smoking something crazy if they think rumors for 10-core 14+++ is going to keep peoples' money with Intel.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 14, 2019)

Xzibit said:


> If small bioses is a issue avoid X570 Gigabytes. They all have 128/16 bioses
> 
> Sell them a PC case with solid panels. Should be looking at the screen not the inside of the PC anyways



It'll be me with the lack of RGB, and i have a very bling PC that doubles as advertising since i sell/repair/upgrade PC's as a profitable hobby


----------



## Athlonite (Jul 14, 2019)

Mussels said:


> i had a buyer for my x370 board and ryzen 1400, tempted to just tell him to buy a b350 and upgrade only the CPU, until the boards improve
> while there are $250Au boards out, they just look terrible to me and i dont need PCI-E 4 or faster M.2 slots yet
> 
> (i'm selling the 1400, and moving my 2700x to the ITX rig)



If PCIe 4.0 and faster M.2 isn't a needed thing then why not just go for a nice X470 mobo instead


----------



## GoldenX (Jul 14, 2019)

Looks like I got a good one, the only thing limiting me to keep the 4GHzs is the size of the stock heatsink.



biffzinker said:


> The throwback GUI MSI used I prefer over the flashy interface so the constraints of to small BIOS worked in my favor.
> 
> Screenshots of the stripped down Click BIOS interface.
> 
> ...



To add more fuel to the fire, I had problems suspending with any BIOS that wasn't the original 1.0 one thanks in part for my old GPU, this "lite" version fixed that.


----------



## GoldenX (Jul 24, 2019)

Managed 3333MHz CL16 with 1usmus DRAM Calculator, amazing software.
3400 booted but crashed, oh well.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 24, 2019)

I'm tempted to grab a 3600 to sidegrade from my 2700x, moving the 2700x to the VR system and selling the 1400

this makes logical sense for a bunch of reasons (lower wattage, better game perf, VR system can do video encodes fine for me)... but i dont actually need faster performance on either system :/


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 24, 2019)

Mussels said:


> I'm tempted to grab a 3600 to sidegrade from my 2700x


Do it! At least you won't be sorry you did. I'm sure not feeling any remorse for what amounts to a upgrade/sidegrade from the 2600X.

Although:





One other thing, don't forget to uninstall reboot then reinstall the AMD chipset drivers for the AMD power plan profiles.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 24, 2019)

part of me says to at least maintain the core count for a 3700x, but they're pricey af right now






Kinda want the wraith prism as well, for the VR system... it'd look pretty


----------



## Wavetrex (Jul 24, 2019)

Oh, I forgot about this thread 









<--- Feeling relaxed in the 3rd gen garden


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 24, 2019)

Mussels said:


> part of me says to at least maintain the core count for a 3700x, but they're pricey af right now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not sure if it's worth it at those prices even though your in Australia. You and @Athlonite sure have it rough down their.


----------



## GamerGuy (Jul 24, 2019)

Looking forward to getting back home next week, I plan to go to the local tech mall for:
1. An X570 mobo (Aorus Master?)
2. 360mm AIO wtaer cooler for the CPU (Corsair or Thermaltake, or even ID-cooling)
3. Case (probably the Cooler Master Mastercase H500M)


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 24, 2019)

Finally hitting some of that sweet 4.4 GHz PBO.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 24, 2019)

i dont think i have PBO on my x370, am i gunna get lower boost clocks compared to higher gen boards?


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 24, 2019)

Mussels said:


> i dont think i have PBO on my x370, am i gunna get lower boost clocks compared to higher gen boards?


XFR should still allow for boosting to 4.2 GHz. Originally this board didn't have PBO it only later showed up during Zen+ as a firmware update. Seems it's included in AGESA microcode now. I'm guessing this is PBO 2?

It's gotta somewhere in the BIOS for your board.





						Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global
					

Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE. GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute...




					www.aorus.com


----------



## Mussels (Jul 24, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> XFR should still allow for boosting to 4.2 GHz. Originally this board didn't have PBO it only later showed up during Zen+ as a firmware update. Seems it's included in AGESA microcode now. I'm guessing this is PBO 2?



maybe its there and just has no options for it, or its invisible on my zen+, i was mostly wondering if i'll take a G/Mhz hit for running zen2 on x370


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 24, 2019)

Mussels said:


> maybe its there and just has no options for it, or its invisible on my zen+, i was mostly wondering if i'll take a G/Mhz hit for running zen2 on x370


PBO goes above XFR so 4.2 GHz would be it for you. My 2600X when it didn't have PBO in the BIOS still boosted to 4,250 MHz with XFR.

XFR is the advertised boost of 4.2 GHz you see next to the base clock speed of 3.6 GHz for the Ryzen 5 3600. Precision Boost Overdrive is overclocking above the advertised boost.


----------



## HTC (Jul 24, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> *PBO goes above XFR so 4.2 GHz would be it for you.* My 2600X when it didn't have PBO in the BIOS still boosted to 4,250 MHz with XFR.
> 
> XFR is the advertised boost of 4.2 GHz you see next to the base clock speed of 3.6 GHz for the Ryzen 5 3600. Precision Boost Overdrive is overclocking above the advertised boost.




Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't it supposed to have PBO in B450 / X470 or newer *only*? You were replying to @Mussels and he was referring to a X370.





PBO shouldn't be available with B350 / X370 boards: you'd need B450 / X470 or newer for that: i'm in this situation myself, with my 2600X paired with my X370 Taichi.

What you get is XFR 2, but not PBO.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 24, 2019)

HTC said:


> Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't it supposed to have PBO in B450 / X470 or newer *only*? You were replying to @Mussels and he was referring to a X370.


Yes but some of the mobo manufacturers for the B350/X370 updated their firmware with support for PBO. There's some posts here in this thread from me, and @GoldenX when it started showing up on our two MSI B350 mobo.


HTC said:


> PBO shouldn't be available with B350 / X370 boards: you'd need B450 / X470 or newer for that


I think AMD left it up to the mobo manufacturers to add in support if they wanted.


----------



## GoldenX (Jul 24, 2019)

I have PBO on my B350, fight me.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 24, 2019)

Mussels said:


> Wifes tidy, RGB Ryzen build


I thought that board looked familiar, to bad you couldn't swap the Gigabyte X370 for the MSI B350 Gaming Pro. I remember you mentioned something about divorce/ex wife?

Found those posts when PBO showed up from MSI. Seems like it was a longer time ago.
@GoldenX - https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/ryzen-owners-zen-garden.231658/post-3879987









						Ryzen Owners Zen Garden
					

well that really sucks, so what your telling me is i should have gotten the X model :laugh:




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## HTC (Jul 24, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> I have PBO on my B350, *fight me*.



Don't wanna ...


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 24, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> I have PBO on my B350, fight me.


Makes me tempted to buy said motherboard, they must be rare now though.


----------



## GoldenX (Jul 25, 2019)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Makes me tempted to buy said motherboard, they must be rare now though.


Most, if not all B350 MSI mobos use the same BIOS configurations. A friend of mine with a B350M Gaming Pro also has the option, plus Ryzen 3000 support like on mine.
Their VRMs are not the best thou, they are not for overclocking a 3900X.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 25, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> A friend of mine with a B350M Gaming Pro also has the option, plus Ryzen 3000 support like on mine.


What about me? Can we be friends?


----------



## Mussels (Jul 25, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> I thought that board looked familiar, to bad you couldn't swap the Gigabyte X370 for the MSI B350 Gaming Pro. I remember you mentioned something about divorce/ex wife?
> 
> Found those posts when PBO showed up from MSI. Seems like it was a longer time ago.
> @GoldenX - https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/ryzen-owners-zen-garden.231658/post-3879987
> ...



yeah she's the ex now, and that board had *serious* VRM overheating issues, anything bigger than the 4 core had heat issues and thermal throttled, even at stock


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 25, 2019)

Mussels said:


> yeah she's the ex now, and that board had *serious* VRM overheating issues, anything bigger than the 4 core had heat issues and thermal throttled, even at stock


Well for my board I pulled off the aluminium foil on the VRM heatsink, cleaned the glue off, and swapped the thermal pad for high temperature conductive thermal paste. Also screwed the heatsink down tight.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 25, 2019)

Has anyone else on here got corsair veangance rgb pro x2x16 kit and got it stable , fully stable at 3600 , I have weird system service exception Bsds on exit of 3d apps despite the PC testing as stable via memtest or the ryzen calc one.
I used ryzen calc but have tweaked heavily to get it this stable at 3600 and at 3533 I have no issues at all.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 26, 2019)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Has anyone else on here got corsair veangance rgb pro x2x16 kit and got it stable , fully stable at 3600 , I have weird system service exception Bsds on exit of 3d apps despite the PC testing as stable via memtest or the ryzen calc one.
> I used ryzen calc but have tweaked heavily to get it this stable at 3600 and at 3533 I have no issues at all.



you probably cant, my 2700x wont get fully stable with ram OCs past 3400 or so... its a limit of the 2nd gen CPUs


----------



## HTC (Jul 26, 2019)

Mussels said:


> you probably cant, my 2700x wont get fully stable with ram OCs past 3400 or so... *its a limit of the 2nd gen* CPUs











						Ryzen Owners Zen Garden
					

My next purchase Johan45, see how this one will perform under my newly purchased EK-FB GA-AX370 monoblock. Won't happen before August 12, tho: Bloodstock Open Air 2018 is calling. :)  The monoblock:  Insane, isn't it? :) Perfect weapon for my job. :) Cheers. :toast:




					www.techpowerup.com
				




It's difficult, for sure, but not the limit.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 26, 2019)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Has anyone else on here got corsair veangance rgb pro x2x16 kit and got it stable , fully stable at 3600 , I have weird system service exception Bsds on exit of 3d apps despite the PC testing as stable via memtest or the ryzen calc one.
> I used ryzen calc but have tweaked heavily to get it this stable at 3600 and at 3533 I have no issues at all.


Having the same issue even though the sticks check out as stable in stress testing.

Had to drop back down to 3466.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 26, 2019)

HTC said:


> Ryzen Owners Zen Garden
> 
> 
> My next purchase Johan45, see how this one will perform under my newly purchased EK-FB GA-AX370 monoblock. Won't happen before August 12, tho: Bloodstock Open Air 2018 is calling. :)  The monoblock:  Insane, isn't it? :) Perfect weapon for my job. :) Cheers. :toast:
> ...



i've got the same ryzen-unfriendly corsair pro RGB ram, it doesnt OC well on ryzen

That linked post would be samsung B die


----------



## HTC (Jul 26, 2019)

Mussels said:


> i've got the same ryzen-unfriendly corsair pro RGB ram, it doesnt OC well on ryzen
> 
> *That linked post would be samsung B die*



I think so, yes.


----------



## GoldenX (Jul 26, 2019)

Instability solved, it was AIDA64. Rocking 3333MHz CL16. And they said Zen1 + 300 series boards were bad with RAM.
Too bad 3400 didn't boot.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 26, 2019)

highest i can get is 3200 with a 103bclk, comes out just under 3300


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 26, 2019)

Mussels said:


> comes out just under 3300


3298 MHz? I've tried the 103 MHz overclock with the 2600X since anything over 3200 MHz for the DDR4 caused a drop in bandwidth especially copy.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 26, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> 3298 MHz? I've tried the 103 MHz overclock with the 2600X since anything over 3200 MHz for the DDR4 caused a drop in bandwidth especially copy.



i can neither confirm nor deny this due to lack effort, CPU-Z is all the way over there


----------



## FinneousPJ (Jul 26, 2019)

R7 1700 non-X @ 4.0 GHz, 32 GB 3200 MT/s CL16 RAM. I got a pretty good chip if I do say so myself. I'm waiting for the 16 core chips to come down in price, probably won't upgrade until 4000-series.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 26, 2019)

Mussels said:


> i've got the same ryzen-unfriendly corsair pro RGB ram, it doesnt OC well on ryzen
> 
> That linked post would be samsung B die


 Wouldn't mind but my ram says it's Bdie (corsair vengeance pro rgb) via typhoon ,I'll keep trying.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jul 28, 2019)

Any 3900X owners in here 

How does it play with cheaper RAM


----------



## Nordic (Jul 28, 2019)

Durvelle27 said:


> Any 3900X owners in here
> 
> How does it play with cheaper RAM


I have a 3900x. I was having trouble getting my memory to run at its xmp speeds, so I was running it at 2133mhz. I didn't notice a difference in daily use, and without breaking FRAPS I couldn't tell a difference in games. I would give tpus ryzen memory scaling review a look if you haven't already.









						AMD Zen 2 Memory Performance Scaling with Ryzen 9 3900X
					

We take a close look at memory scaling on AMD's new Zen 2 Ryzen 3900X, testing both application and gaming performance at seven different memory speed and timing combinations ranging from 2400 MHz all the way up to 4000 MHz.




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## HTC (Jul 28, 2019)

A thing of beauty (many 3600 die shots) :


__
		https://flic.kr/p/2gEwxbm

Click on the pic for many more images.

Suggest downloading the biggest version of each image (VERY big in size: this specific one is over 38 MB in jpg format) and scale that up for even more awesome details.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 28, 2019)

HTC said:


> A thing of beauty (many 3600 die shots) :
> 
> 
> __
> ...


Interesting that he says there is visible etching issues. Wonder if this chiplet was on the outer area of  the wafer or if this why AMD is having trouble with higher boost/base clockspeeds?

I/O Die


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 29, 2019)

Still can't get my 3800X over 4.4GHz... 

According to this, my CPU isn't even going over 69W power draw...


----------



## Nordic (Jul 30, 2019)

I am using the new update from the amazing Ryzen DRAM Calculator. I have this memory.







Using the built in benchmark, I have gathered the following results.
3200mhz Cas 18, Best time: 130.31, Random Latency: 86.31
3533mhz Cas 18 , Best time: 117.62 , Random Latency: 80.64
3200mhz Cas 16, Best time: 120.5, Random Latency: 90.62
_3533mhz Cas 16 , Best time 109.73: , Random Latency: 82.37_
3200mhz Cas 14 , Best time: 120.5 , Random Latency: 85.74
3466mhz Cas 14 , Best time: 110.69 , Random Latency: 81.28
3533mhz Cas 14 , Best time: 111.6, Random Latency: 80.06 (Unstable)
3600mhz will not post at all.

Cas 18 results are with the XMP timings. Cas 16 results are with the calculators safe values. Cas 14 results are with the calculators fast values. It seems that 3533mhz Cas 16 and 3466mhz Cas 14 are the fastest, with 3533mhz Cas 16 needing a lot less volts. I think that is the sweet spot.

I don't understand why 3533mhz Cas 18 had the best latency. I also don't understand why the system won't even post at 3600mhz at all beyond maybe that the cpu is a bit of a dud.

I would appreciate any guidance. I have never overclocked memory before.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 30, 2019)

3533 was probably closest to where the divider kicks in for the infinity fabric


currently saving coins and waiting for a cheap (post launch prices) 3700x


----------



## NoJuan999 (Jul 31, 2019)

Here is some good info on the New AMD Chipset Drivers *version 1.07.29* and the Ryzen 3000 high voltage and clockspeed issues:





						Community Update #5: Let’s Talk Clocks, Voltages, and Destiny 2
					

Hello! Thank you for all of the interest and excitement around 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Processors. We have some important updates today on our voltages, clockspeeds, and Destiny 2!     We diagnosed and resolved the issue causing software monitoring tools to report high voltages and clockspeeds at the...




					community.amd.com


----------



## kapone32 (Jul 31, 2019)

NoJuan999 said:


> Here is some good info on the New AMD Chipset Drivers *version 1.07.29* and the Ryzen 3000 high voltage and clockspeed issues:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for that it shows that AMD has heard the community and is doing something to resolve these issues. I was really worried about Ryzen when I saw some posts with voltage at 1.45 volts.


----------



## AlienIsGOD (Jul 31, 2019)

Brand new ryzen user here  came from a 3570K to an r7 2700 and the difference is night and day. Complete specs are listed as well.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 31, 2019)

AlienIsGOD said:


> difference is night and day.


Gets even more noticeable with a Zen2 CPU.


----------



## Athlonite (Aug 1, 2019)

AlienIsGOD said:


> Brand new ryzen user here  came from a 3570K to an r7 2700 and the difference is night and day. Complete specs are listed as well.



I went from an FX8320 to the same R7 2700 and your right it's a night n day difference


----------



## the54thvoid (Aug 1, 2019)

I asked this in another thread but it's been lost in the news feeds. Any advice?



> Should the chipset driver be updated prior to a BIOS flash for the new 3rd gen? I'm on a CH6 at the moment



Thanks.


----------



## btarunr (Aug 1, 2019)

the54thvoid said:


> I asked this in another thread but it's been lost in the news feeds. Any advice?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.



I recommend yes. Some motherboard manufacturers state in their BIOS changelogs that you should update chipset drivers before flashing and not after.


----------



## Metroid (Aug 1, 2019)

GamerGuy said:


> Looking forward to getting back home next week, I plan to go to the local tech mall for:
> 1. An X570 mobo (Aorus Master?)
> 2. 360mm AIO wtaer cooler for the CPU (Corsair or Thermaltake, or even ID-cooling)
> 3. Case (probably the Cooler Master Mastercase H500M)


 evga just released their 360mm aio, might be worth to check that out.



Nordic said:


> I am using the new update from the amazing Ryzen DRAM Calculator. I have this memory.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



See that is the thing I always tell, bandwidth is more important than latency, so everybody should overclock their ram to highest possible, if ryzen then close to 3600mhz and lowest timings, even cl18 -  cl 21 is good.



biffzinker said:


> Having the same issue even though the sticks check out as stable in stress testing.
> 
> Had to drop back down to 3466.


msi tomahawk, gaming plus, and few others b450 boards are limited to 3466mhz, I set at that specifically for that.


----------



## GamerGuy (Aug 1, 2019)

Almost literally dropped off my bags at the apartment, after a long and arduous trip back from Toronto, and headed to the local tech mall to lay my mitts on these....


----------



## HTC (Aug 1, 2019)

Here's a tip for Ryzen 3000 CPUs, courtesy of XtremeSystem's chew*.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 3, 2019)

Looks like the latest UEFI/AGESA did some magic for memory latency on my board, something I only just though about testing.
Over 2ns improvement and slightly higher read speeds.





Compared to the older numbers


----------



## Xzibit (Aug 3, 2019)

NoJuan999 said:


> Here is some good info on the New AMD Chipset Drivers *version 1.07.29* and the Ryzen 3000 high voltage and clockspeed issues:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Didn't know there was a updated Ryzen Master


----------



## sam_86314 (Aug 3, 2019)

AlienIsGOD said:


> Brand new ryzen user here  came from a 3570K to an r7 2700 and the difference is night and day. Complete specs are listed as well.


I moved from an i7 2600K to an R5 2600X. The biggest performance improvements I've had were with Blender renders and heavily modded Minecraft of all things.


----------



## GamerGuy (Aug 4, 2019)

My rig is up and running, but I'm having difficulty figuring if my CPU AIO pump is faulty, or the GB monitoring software is wonky. Temps would spike to 60C (idles at about 33C) when I perform light operations, like enabling GPUZ or installing software, then drop back to idle temps quickly enough.....still, it bothers me. I may swap the AIO to see if that is at fault. The RAM stays AT 2666Mhz and I don't see any option to change that, the RAM sticks do look great all lit up (yes, I'm shallow as hell)


----------



## Mussels (Aug 4, 2019)

i saw some reports that one core may heat up during single threaded spikes and some temp software just grabs the highest reading, where ryzen master grabs an average between the cores... those spikes are an annoyance, but its just software showing the hottest core/CCX


----------



## GamerGuy (Aug 4, 2019)

Mussels said:


> i saw some reports that one core may heat up during single threaded spikes and some temp software just grabs the highest reading, where ryzen master grabs an average between the cores... those spikes are an annoyance, but its just software showing the hottest core/CCX


That's good to hear, will install Ryzen Master and see if that makes a difference, this temp spike issue is driving me bonkers.


----------



## Mussels (Aug 4, 2019)

GamerGuy said:


> That's good to hear, will install Ryzen Master and see if that makes a difference, this temp spike issue is driving me bonkers.



i get those spikes on my 2700x as well, its partly what made me ditch NZXT and their shitty CAM software... it wouldnt let me choose a different temp, and the fans would go nuts when it reset to defaults and couldnt handle a CPU with changing temps

on mine, the new RM doesnt change anything.. it'll be at 30C, then 45C, then drop to 30C again just with chrome open


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 4, 2019)

GamerGuy said:


> My rig is up and running, but I'm having difficulty figuring if my CPU AIO pump is faulty, or the GB monitoring software is wonky. Temps would spike to 60C (idles at about 33C) when I perform light operations, like enabling GPUZ or installing software, then drop back to idle temps quickly enough.....still, it bothers me. I may swap the AIO to see if that is at fault. The RAM stays AT 2666Mhz and I don't see any option to change that, the RAM sticks do look great all lit up (yes, I'm shallow as hell)



Did you try enabling XMP in the UEFI first? If not, that should be your first step to increase the speed for the RAM. If that fails, you might have to set it manually.

CPU temps at around 60 when doing things, isn't really an issue, your cooler is fine. The temperature is all over the place to be honest, especially under any kind of load. The 3000-series behaves very differently to any other kind of CPU I have ever owned, for better or worse. Which is also making it really hard to know what's "normal". I see temperatures between just under 30C to over 80C with my H115i, but you have four more cores, but also a bigger cooler, so I'd expect you should see something similar. Obviously it also depends on the ambient temperature.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 6, 2019)

And with some tweaks, my RAM is now at 3733 1:1 amazingly.


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 26, 2019)

I was looking at my old MSI B350M Gaming Pro motherboard after swapping for the B450 Tomahawk and spotted this in the CPU VRM section. Yes, I swapped the thermal pad for thermal compound but the last time I looked the ferriote choke/coils were fine so I'm curious what happened to cause this one to fracture?


Edit: Nothing was rattling around in the Phantek's case when I was moving it around earlier.


----------



## Mussels (Aug 26, 2019)

i demand better pics of the damage!


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 26, 2019)

Mussels said:


> i demand better pics of the damage!






The last two the thermal compound looks to of been vaporized and collected on the heatsink. Not sure what happened other than high heat. No discoloration on the back of the motherboard.


----------



## Mussels (Aug 26, 2019)

Board has daddy issues

'choke me harder'


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 26, 2019)

Most likely overtightened screws...
Thermal pads have some cushioning that thermal grease lacks...


----------



## GoldenX (Aug 26, 2019)

^
Hell yeah, managed to get 3400MHz on tha sticks.


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 26, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Most likely overtightened screws...
> Thermal pads have some cushioning that thermal grease lacks...


The top of the heatsink is not in contact with the chokes though, still a gap between the two. Screws are only hand tight, didn't want to risk crushing the mosfets.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 26, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> The top of the heatsink is not in contact with the chokes though, still a gap between the two. Screws are only hand tight, didn't want to risk crushing the mosfets.


Right, no idea then, never seen a broken choke before in my 25+ years of building PCs and working in the industry.
I've seen rusty chokes though...


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 26, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> ^
> Hell yeah, managed to get 3400MHz on tha sticks.


The switch to the B450 Tomahawk allowed for 3533 MHz from 3466 MHz.


----------



## Mussels (Aug 26, 2019)

Three things happened today

1. I discovered HWinfo64 crashes the background service for corsairs iCue, which froze my fan speeds and caused thermal/performance issues
2. I discovered multi core enhancement in the BIOS (defaults to on) is a f*cking c*nt, turning it off dropped 20C and RAISED performance
3. I'm so annoyed at 1&2 i feel like merging my sytems together and running the 2700x + watercooled 1080 in the ITX case, leaving the big case to the older hardware


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 26, 2019)

Mussels said:


> Three things happened today
> 
> 1. I discovered HWinfo64 crashes the background service for corsairs iCue, which froze my fan speeds and caused thermal/performance issues
> 2. I discovered multi core enhancement in the BIOS (defaults to on) is a f*cking c*nt, turning it off dropped 20C and RAISED performance
> 3. I'm so annoyed at 1&2 i feel like merging my sytems together and running the 2700x + watercooled 1080 in the ITX case, leaving the big case to the older hardware


1. They warn about that and asks you if you want to disable the part that interferes with iCue.
2. Care to share a screenshot of that setting? As I haven't seen that option.


----------



## Mussels (Aug 26, 2019)

Forgot reason for swapping the systems around: 2700x just feels like it belongs on B450 and not x370, and the ITX will fit on the desk vs the ATX on the floor.
This also lets me run several less fans and devices and have an overall less complicated build now that i solved the heat issues (90C linpack load dropped to 60C, since the fans now ramp up and the wattage dropped... so i dont really need a 4x 140mm fan setup to cool the CPU now)

1. The option to not read corsair doesnt work, it takes a full power cycle of the system + a reset of the service to get the device back up and running - it breaks it hard.
See the corsair thread here for the screenshots, rather than duplicating it here

2. I was thinking of the name for my previous intel system, its core performance boost on Gigabyte aourus, like two menus deep in the MIT settings


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 26, 2019)

Mussels said:


> Forgot reason for swapping the systems around: 2700x just feels like it belongs on B450 and not x370, and the ITX will fit on the desk vs the ATX on the floor.
> This also lets me run several less fans and devices and have an overall less complicated build now that i solved the heat issues (90C linpack load dropped to 60C, since the fans now ramp up and the wattage dropped... so i dont really need a 4x 140mm fan setup to cool the CPU now)
> 
> 1. The option to not read corsair doesnt work, it takes a full power cycle of the system + a reset of the service to get the device back up and running - it breaks it hard.
> ...


1. Works fine for me, it simply ignores the iCue stuff.

2. We've been discussing the CPB in another thread and it prevents our CPUs from boosting past base clock, so if you can still boost with it disabled, means that there's something going on with certain boards. Have a look see...








						Did you get a shiny new Ryzen 3000 CPU?
					

I have the original SX8200NP and a "last BIOS time" in Task Manager of around ~18 seconds. I previously thought it was a Ryzen 3000 + B450 problem.  The fast boot options don't make a difference for me; once Windows starts booting everything is hella fast. You should probably just move it up to...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 26, 2019)

Mussels said:


> i demand better pics of the damage!


Heatsink, and CPU VRM Mosfets are all clean of the thermal compound. The thermal compound literally turned into a thermal pad. 
It was firm with a little bit of stretch, and had the stick of a thermal pad. Half of it came off in a chunk stuck to the bottom of the heatsink.

What a mess though


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 26, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> Heatsink, and CPU VRM Mosfets are all clean of the thermal compound. The thermal compound literally turned into a thermal pad.
> It was firm with a little bit of stretch, and had the stick of a thermal pad. Half of it came off in a chunk stuck to the bottom of the heatsink.
> 
> What a mess though


Care to share what thermal gunk it was, so the rest of us can avoid it?


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 26, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Care to share what thermal gunk it was, so the rest of us can avoid it?











						TG-7
					

TG-7 Thermaltake high performance and reliable Thermal grease with diamond powder




					www.thermaltake.com
				




There's a bit between the syringe, and cap that turned into elastic rubber but sticky. Got it from Best Buy because it was an emergency situation.


----------



## GoldenX (Aug 26, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> The switch to the B450 Tomahawk allowed for 3533 MHz from 3466 MHz.



3466 boots but isn't stable, so it might be the board.


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 26, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> 3466 boots but isn't stable, so it might be the board.


The B350M Gaming Pro capped at 3400 MHz with the 2600X. Swapping to the 3600 got it up to 3466 on the same board. Haven't messed around with the Tomahawk that much yet. 3600 MHz might be doable since it leaves the primary timings at there default 16-18-18-18-36.


----------



## Mussels (Aug 27, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> 1. Works fine for me, it simply ignores the iCue stuff.
> 
> 2. We've been discussing the CPB in another thread and it prevents our CPUs from boosting past base clock, so if you can still boost with it disabled, means that there's something going on with certain boards. Have a look see...
> 
> ...



iCue *works* but items disappear or control stops until system is rebooted and service restarted - if you dont have a commander pro (or other affected device) everything appears normal.


System moved over to my ITX build with zero issues, other than lack of optical port giving me trouble because my sound bar has a damaged 3.5mm jack... so USB soundcard it is. Luckily still had one.

Plastic side panel is a disapointment after having tempered glass, but it *fits* in the damn room, which is more important.
Watercooled 1080 and 2700x sits at 70c in burntests at 600RPM fan speeds






BIOS between the two brands is so annoying, settings with the same name behave totally different.

CPB on this board controls if it even turbos at all, and it seems like changing almost ANYTHING breaks turbo - this wasnt apparent with the ryzen 1400 i had previously.


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 31, 2019)




----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 31, 2019)

@Mussels it appears from the picture that your 2700X is keeping its boost clocks with CPB off. This is very interesting as every Ryzen 3000 complainant I've come across (myself included) has reported that CPB off locks all Ryzen 3000 SKUs to base clock only.

Maybe I'll send Gigabyte an email. It doesn't sound like a Matisse "feature", sounds more like they missed something in their updated BIOSes.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 31, 2019)

Gigabyte released a "final" stable F5 UEFI for my board and I'm back to 3800MHz memory.


----------



## GoldenX (Aug 31, 2019)

Got a 16GB Micron E-die kit, managed 3400MHz with it, quite happy, for a 2400MHz kit.


----------



## Mussels (Aug 31, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> @Mussels it appears from the picture that your 2700X is keeping its boost clocks with CPB off. This is very interesting as every Ryzen 3000 complainant I've come across (myself included) has reported that CPB off locks all Ryzen 3000 SKUs to base clock only.
> 
> Maybe I'll send Gigabyte an email. It doesn't sound like a Matisse "feature", sounds more like they missed something in their updated BIOSes.



once i moved the 2700x to the asus b450 it behaves totally different - CPB on the giga board just boosted temps and voltages and nothing else, yet on the asus board (its listed twice as seperate settings, for some reason) it disables turbo.

On the giga board i could also adjust bclk and keep turbo, cant on the asus. annoying.

i should really try a ram OC now, better board and all.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Aug 31, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> Got a 16GB Micron E-die kit, managed 3400MHz with it, quite happy, for a 2400MHz kit.


That is a great OC for ram! Very nice. Did you need to bump the ram voltage to get there?


Mussels said:


> once i moved the 2700x to the asus b450 it behaves totally different - CPB on the giga board just boosted temps and voltages and nothing else, yet on the asus board (its listed twice as seperate settings, for some reason) it disables turbo.
> 
> On the giga board i could also adjust bclk and keep turbo, cant on the asus. annoying.
> 
> i should really try a ram OC now, better board and all.


I think that board makers are doing what they did with the first gen Ryzen, learning. While it's a similar architecture, there are enough differences that they're still having "growing pains". I predict that in a few months most of the issues people are having will be worked out..


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 31, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> I think that board makers are doing what they did with the first gen Ryzen, learning. While it's a similar architecture, there are enough differences that they're still having "growing pains". I predict that in a few months most of the issues people are having will be worked out..



Most of the issues I was having seems to have been more or less worked out. However, I do still believe people are expecting more frequent and higher boosts, as well as "proper" manual overclocking, but we might never see those.


----------



## GoldenX (Aug 31, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> That is a great OC for ram! Very nice. Did you need to bump the ram voltage to get there?


1.39v, nothing radical.


----------



## Mussels (Aug 31, 2019)

tried a variety of OC options, even with temps hitting 90C i got like a 3% boost

Back to stock settings with an undervolt and calling it a day, AMD really did a top notch job with their XFR settings


----------



## lexluthermiester (Aug 31, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> 1.39v, nothing radical.


Perhaps. Personally wouldn't be comfortable with that much voltage long term, but if it works stable, rock on!


----------



## GoldenX (Aug 31, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Perhaps. Personally wouldn't be comfortable with that much voltage long term, but if it works stable, rock on!


Micron E-die are old sticks, and I think I can lower it, currently, 1.38v is being tested.


----------



## Nordic (Sep 3, 2019)

Vlada011 said:


> I would like to see how Intel i7-6950X compete with new R9-3900X.
> Because we talk about 4 years old CPU with lower frequency it's logic to OC both to the maximum and then to compare them.
> That mean i7-6950X 4.4GHz boost on all cores, 3.8-4.0GHz Cache frequency vs R9-3900X on how much is boost...
> no one know that for sure, enthusiasts community still examine is it boost as AMD advertised.


@Vlada011 I am responding to you here because it is a more appropriate thread.

AMD 3900x is faster clock for clock, and should in most circumstances beat the 6950x. I apologize for using userbenchmark as a reference, but my amd 3900x is about 30% faster than the average intel 6950x in single core tests.


----------



## GoldenX (Sep 10, 2019)

The 3950X is 105W TDP, was that known?
It showed up in a Gigabyte A320 board's compatibility list.


----------



## Chomiq (Sep 10, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> The 3950X is 105W TDP, was that known?
> It showed up in a Gigabyte A320 board's compatibility list.


Well it's a 16/32 CPU, pretty much an AM4 threadripper. This was known since mid-June.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 10, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> The 3950X is 105W TDP, was that known?
> It showed up in a Gigabyte A320 board's compatibility list.


Wouldn't recommend it though. Most A320 boards can't handle that kind of load.


----------



## GoldenX (Sep 11, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Wouldn't recommend it though. Most A320 boards can't handle that kind of load.


I agree, but it's kinda funny, like putting 2x 9900k on an H110. AMD delivered on the chipset longevity.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 11, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> AMD delivered on the chipset longevity.


True, and I would not hesitate installing a 3700X in one as they are designed for that power level, but not more.


----------



## Samiam66 (Sep 11, 2019)

Hello all

New to this forum ..Just got done putting together a new AMD build ..Info on it is in  System specs ..
Now need to upgrade video since POWER COLOR RX-580  is the only piece that was from a previous
build .... have seen a few CPU temp spike out of the nowhere that activates a shutdown temp I have set to
165 degrees Fahrenheit ..bust mostly runs at 140-150 Fahrenheit   playing Forza 7 under load

Sam


----------



## AlienIsGOD (Sep 11, 2019)

absolutely loving my 2700  does everything i need it to and crunches WCG really nicely


----------



## biffzinker (Sep 11, 2019)

AlienIsGOD said:


> absolutely loving my 2700  does everything i need it to and crunches WCG really nicely


Have you tried it out playing games?


----------



## AlienIsGOD (Sep 11, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> Have you tried it out playing games?


Well yeah


----------



## NoJuan999 (Sep 11, 2019)

Samiam66 said:


> Hello all
> 
> New to this forum ..Just got done putting together a new AMD build ..Info on it is in  System specs ..
> Now need to upgrade video since POWER COLOR RX-580  is the only piece that was from a previous
> ...


Nice system specs. 
But, it sounds like you need to adjust your coolers settings or possibly reseat it on the CPU.
My 3700x idles at 32-34c, gets to around 17-38c while web browsing and maxes out around 60-62c after hours of gaming (Far Cry 5, AC : Oddyssey, etc.).
And as long as your Ambient temperature is around 23c (73-74F) like mine is yours should be running as cool or cooler than mine is.

PS
How do you like tha tRosewell Rise case ?
I just recently bought one and will be transferring my current rig over to it in a week or two when I have the time.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Sep 11, 2019)

Got to say, the new AGESA really fixed things right up for my CPU.
HWinfo has been running for a few hours in the background and I now see two cores hitting 4.6GHz. 
It's finally also the fastest cores in the system, which haven't done anything special up until now.
Hitting 4.5GHz is an all the time thing now, just taking that screenshot boosted one of the cores to 4.5GHz.


----------



## the54thvoid (Sep 11, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Got to say, the new AGESA really fixed things right up for my CPU.
> HWinfo has been running for a few hours in the background and I now see two cores hitting 4.6GHz.
> It's finally also the fastest cores in the system, which haven't done anything special up until now.
> Hitting 4.5GHz is an all the time thing now, just taking that screenshot boosted one of the cores to 4.5GHz.
> ...



After all your teething pains - this is really good to hear.

I have my new 3700X sitting on top of my PC. My CH6 is waiting so I'll probably install tomorrow after work.... New BIOS, new chipset. Should be okay.


----------



## EarthDog (Sep 11, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Got to say, the new AGESA really fixed things right up for my CPU.
> HWinfo has been running for a few hours in the background and I now see two cores hitting 4.6GHz.
> It's finally also the fastest cores in the system, which haven't done anything special up until now.
> Hitting 4.5GHz is an all the time thing now, just taking that screenshot boosted one of the cores to 4.5GHz.


That is great to hear. I had a death in the family late last week so I really havent been at the test bench or my PC for days and wont be until next week.. I cant wait to see the result though!


----------



## TheLostSwede (Sep 11, 2019)

the54thvoid said:


> After all your teething pains - this is really good to hear.
> 
> I have my new 3700X sitting on top of my PC. My CH6 is waiting so I'll probably install tomorrow after work.... New BIOS, new chipset. Should be okay.


I think my old 1700 was far worse, as it took much longer to get anywhere near decent memory speeds with that setup.

AMD seems to have been a lot more proactive this time around and the overall hardware is a lot more impressive. Not going to spend any more money on computer bits now for a couple of years, I hope...


----------



## Samiam66 (Sep 12, 2019)

NoJuan999 said:


> Nice system specs.
> But, it sounds like you need to adjust your coolers settings or possibly reseat it on the CPU.
> My 3700x idles at 32-34c, gets to around 17-38c while web browsing and maxes out around 60-62c after hours of gaming (Far Cry 5, AC : Oddyssey, etc.).
> And as long as your Ambient temperature is around 23c (73-74F) like mine is yours should be running as cool or cooler than mine is.
> ...




First of all thanks for the information ..
I was a little suspect that the cooler was under performing its a AIO H100I  v2 corsair 240
with 4x120mm fans two push, two pull  ...two pushing are hooked to Cpu/wp header # 2  that gets straight 12v . The two pulling are hooked to a pwm controlled cpu header #1...so they throttle up and down via OS while the two pushers are controlled by the water pump

I am waiting for some 1mm thick thermal pads to see if that helps 
AS for the Rise case room for days , Can put a 320 either in front or on top.. However if you put a 320 ontop you loose your 5.25 bays 
I opted to keep my optical bays and mounted the radiator in front pushing warm Air into the case..but the case is so open that the
front, top and rear are all screen mesh so airflow is abundant  2x120 ontop

The Case will hold a vertical Video card as I have shown below but Air to card is really restricted since the fans are too close to
side door to draw air ...I just leave the door off right now


----------



## GoldenX (Sep 12, 2019)

Can't wait to test that AGESA on my 1200, it will give me 4GHz boost, right? RIGHT?!


----------



## the54thvoid (Sep 14, 2019)

I feel like I've come full circle. I started this thread as an early Ryzen adopter and now I've fulfilled my upgrade path, something AMD promised. No matter the shortfall in boost frequency, I think it's great I've spent a fraction to improve my PC's performance (and it has improved it). Even on gfx - I ran a Unigine test and it was substantially faster (single core boost to 4.3 is far better than all core at 3.8). Anyway, my old X370 exhibits a standard behaviour now. 
1 - Doesn't boot on first try: powers briefly and then switches off
2 - Immediately, it restarts and the GPU fans go at full speed and the mobo beeps 3 times.
3 - GPU fans calm down after about 5 seconds and single mobo beep, followed by normal ops (into desktop).

I check HWinfo and the DOCP Standard setting for my memory is intact (3200, cas14) and things are running as they should. Does it matter my PC acts weird on boot? It'd just be nice to know the behaviour. It didn't give three beeps before I ran the 'XMP' (DOCP) profile. So I figure it's related to that, memory learning perhaps? But if so, when will it learn and boot nicely?


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## Kissamies (Sep 14, 2019)

R5 2600 here, since January. I had an i7-5820K before (it had one defective core, so I ran it with 5c/10t) and I think that this is the best upgrade in last few years. Probably last time I had such a good upgrade, we go way back when I went from Phenom II X4 965BE to i5-2500K. Running at 4GHz, it can do 4.1 but needs more voltage and the performance gain isn't worth it. Though the temps aren't a problem with custom loop.



Spoiler











...still need a waterblock for the second R9 290


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## Mussels (Sep 15, 2019)

the54thvoid said:


> I feel like I've come full circle. I started this thread as an early Ryzen adopter and now I've fulfilled my upgrade path, something AMD promised. No matter the shortfall in boost frequency, I think it's great I've spent a fraction to improve my PC's performance (and it has improved it). Even on gfx - I ran a Unigine test and it was substantially faster (single core boost to 4.3 is far better than all core at 3.8). Anyway, my old X370 exhibits a standard behaviour now.
> 1 - Doesn't boot on first try: powers briefly and then switches off
> 2 - Immediately, it restarts and the GPU fans go at full speed and the mobo beeps 3 times.
> 3 - GPU fans calm down after about 5 seconds and single mobo beep, followed by normal ops (into desktop).
> ...



asus had a BIOS bug come back where it boots at 1.2V on the ram not the XMP/DOCP voltage, so if your ram needs 1.35v to be stable, its not gunna boot at that voltage and hang until it goes through some reboot cycles


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## the54thvoid (Sep 15, 2019)

Mussels said:


> asus had a BIOS bug come back where it boots at 1.2V on the ram not the XMP/DOCP voltage, so if your ram needs 1.35v to be stable, its not gunna boot at that voltage and hang until it goes through some reboot cycles



Makes a lot of sense. Though this morning, it booted without any issues. Gotta love technology; it exists to vex you.


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## potato580+ (Sep 15, 2019)

am still fine with raven ridge igpu, only sightly annoying on how bad freesync work on igpu, it seems like not smooth as external card, i borrow & tested with rx570 strix, even rx580 red dragon with bios mod clock 300mz looks smooth while active freesync ingame, no blur/jagged/lag/tear, i notice vega 8 have a problem with that, all running in exact 60fps and 60hz cap monitor, also i think igpu have a bad scaling, with external card i got clear display on any non native setup by turning on gpu scaling instead let monitor to do so


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## Samiam66 (Sep 17, 2019)

What to do with a uneeded Ryen 7 Wraith cooler ?

Mate it to Xeon Lga1366 board ......waaaaa.. laaaa


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## GoldenX (Sep 17, 2019)

Samiam66 said:


> What to do with a uneeded Ryen 7 Wraith cooler ?
> 
> Mate it to Xeon Lga1366 board ......waaaaa.. laaaa


Heathen.


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## sam_86314 (Sep 17, 2019)

Samiam66 said:


> What to do with a uneeded Ryen 7 Wraith cooler ?
> 
> Mate it to Xeon Lga1366 board ......waaaaa.. laaaa


What sorcery is this?!


----------



## Mussels (Sep 22, 2019)

just found something interesting
was doing testing earlier between the windows power plan options and accidentally left my system on the windows power saving plan

played rimworld... 60FPS where i normally flatline 144
thought about it, changed plan back to ryzen balanced... 144FPS.

Seems like in low load situations, the CPU would not clock up... which may be what AMD tried to fix with their custom plans.

Edit: i re-tested to be sure and it definitely was occuring, CPU % in power saving are the default 5% and 100%, so it SHOULD be clocking up


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## HD64G (Sep 22, 2019)

Mussels said:


> just found something interesting
> was doing testing earlier between the windows power plan options and accidentally left my system on the windows power saving plan
> 
> played rimworld... 60FPS where i normally flatline 144
> ...


Big find there and I hope that all reviewers use the energy plans AMD made for its CPUs when testing them. The energy plan matters muchly especially for gaming.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 22, 2019)

Mussels said:


> just found something interesting
> was doing testing earlier between the windows power plan options and accidentally left my system on the windows power saving plan
> 
> played rimworld... 60FPS where i normally flatline 144
> ...


This is interesting. By default the systems I build are set to performance mode and they are left there. Wondering if the combined manual settings in the bios are why I'm not having the same problems as many others.


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## robot zombie (Sep 24, 2019)

I see y'all have been full steam ahead on your Ryzen game. 

I'm still chilling on my 2600. Like really man... at 4ghz it does run on the cool side. Lean and mean. I gotta say I'm thrilled with the balance I've struck with my system. Pretty efficient even running an all-core.

But in the back of my mind is a masochistic voice whispering faint notions of putting a 3700x in my x370 board... it's like I can't not screw up a good thing. Because I see that what I have is good, I must mess with it.

Kinda figure I'll drop it in, slap my cooler on it... aaaannnd just seehowitgoes.  

What spurred this on was the recent bios update for my board, the Asus Strix x370-f. Looks like they're starting to catch up and it's got me thinking it might be nice to have some Zen 2 in my life. Seeking anecdotal information on how this might shake out. I believe @Kursah is running Zen 2 on the same board. How's that going for ya bud? I'm sure you've dumped plenty of tidbits on it. Don't wanna take up too much of your time. I will ultimately see for myself. Just wondering if you have any comments on the idea.


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## NoJuan999 (Sep 24, 2019)

Mussels said:


> just found something interesting
> was doing testing earlier between the windows power plan options and accidentally left my system on the windows power saving plan
> 
> played rimworld... 60FPS where i normally flatline 144
> ...


That actually doesn't surprise me at all since the Power Saver Plan is a Windows 10 plan and AMD Released the Ryzen Balanced and Ryzen High Performance Plans specifically for use with Ryzen CPUs.


http://imgur.com/yn3xtbn


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## Kursah (Sep 24, 2019)

robot zombie said:


> What spurred this on was the recent bios update for my board, the Asus Strix x370-f. Looks like they're starting to catch up and it's got me thinking it might be nice to have some Zen 2 in my life. Seeking anecdotal information on how this might shake out. I believe @Kursah is running Zen 2 on the same board. How's that going for ya bud? I'm sure you've dumped plenty of tidbits on it. Don't wanna take up too much of your time. I will ultimately see for myself. Just wondering if you have any comments on the idea.



I'm not running a Zen2, still on my 2700X at this point. I want to snag a 3600 or 3700 at some point. But all the way up to the 3800 is on the approved CPU list after July's BIOS upgrade (iirc it was that one). 

I will say that recent BIOS updates brought back PBO, and then the following update fixed a PBO issue I was having...higher temps and lower PBO clocks. I now no longer have to run a modded BIOS to have proper PBO. So far my 2700X and X370 combo has been quite solid overall. Kinda ho-hum on the OC-side of things, but really that's not an issue this time around. 

If I do snag a Zen2, I'll definitely letcha know. If you snag one soon, I'd love to hear how it works on these boards. From what I've read the VRM's on these are similar to the higher-end boards so taking on the higher-end Zen2 CPU's shouldn't be an issue at all.


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## AlienIsGOD (Sep 24, 2019)

Mussels said:


> just found something interesting
> was doing testing earlier between the windows power plan options and accidentally left my system on the windows power saving plan
> 
> played rimworld... 60FPS where i normally flatline 144
> ...


They make RPP hard enough to find to install tho lol  had to dig thru chipset folders till I found it and installed and rebooted


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## NoJuan999 (Sep 24, 2019)

AlienIsGOD said:


> They make RPP hard enough to find to install tho lol  had to dig thru chipset folders till I found it and installed and rebooted


The Ryzen Power Plans are included in the Chipset Drivers and should install automatically when you install the Chipset Drivers and reboot.
They did when I had a Ryzen 5 2600 and again when I updated with my 3700x installed.


> *Package Includes:*
> AMD Chipset Drivers
> AMD Ryzen™ Power Plans (required for UEFI CPPC2 in Windows® 10 May 2019 Update)
> Contains desktop idle optimizations for 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Processors
> Resolves Destiny 2 game launch on 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Processors





			https://www.amd.com/en/support/chipsets/amd-socket-am4/b450


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## AlienIsGOD (Sep 24, 2019)

NoJuan999 said:


> The Ryzen Power Plans are included in the Chipset Drivers and should install automatically when you install the Chipset Drivers and reboot.
> They did when I had a Ryzen 5 2600 and again when I updated with my 3700x installed.
> 
> 
> ...


They did not over the last 2 released chipset drivers. Hence my searching and googling to figure out how to install... Others have had the issue which led to the solution (location of rpp exe)

The link is of no use to me as I have the latest chipset drivers


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## NoJuan999 (Sep 25, 2019)

AlienIsGOD said:


> They did not over the last 2 released chipset drivers. Hence my searching and googling to figure out how to install... Others have had the issue which led to the solution (location of rpp exe)
> 
> The link is of no use to me as I have the latest chipset drivers


Actually the last 2 older chipset drivers (1.07.29.0115 and 1.07.07.0725) included them as well.
And the few before that just had the Ryzen Balanced Power Plan included.


			https://www.amd.com/en/support/previous-drivers/chipsets/amd-socket-am4/b450
		


I built my Ryzen System last November (with a Ryzen 5 2600) and the Ryzen balanced Power Plan was installed with every Chipset Driver I installed since then and the last 3 included the Ryzen High Performance Plan as well.

I have no idea why they got automatically installed on my system and not yours unless you were using drivers from your MB manufacturer and not the drivers from AMD.


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## AlienIsGOD (Sep 25, 2019)

NoJuan999 said:


> Actually the last 2 older chipset drivers (1.07.29.0115 and 1.07.07.0725) included them as well.
> And the few before that just had the Ryzen Balanced Power Plan included.
> 
> 
> ...


I downloaded directly from amd, as I stated before rpp just didn't install with the rest of it.


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## NoJuan999 (Sep 25, 2019)

AlienIsGOD said:


> I downloaded directly from amd, as I stated before rpp just didn't install with the rest of it.


Yeah, that's weird.
It must just be a quirk in the Installer.


----------



## robot zombie (Sep 25, 2019)

Kursah said:


> I'm not running a Zen2, still on my 2700X at this point. I want to snag a 3600 or 3700 at some point. But all the way up to the 3800 is on the approved CPU list after July's BIOS upgrade (iirc it was that one).
> 
> I will say that recent BIOS updates brought back PBO, and then the following update fixed a PBO issue I was having...higher temps and lower PBO clocks. I now no longer have to run a modded BIOS to have proper PBO. So far my 2700X and X370 combo has been quite solid overall. Kinda ho-hum on the OC-side of things, but really that's not an issue this time around.
> 
> If I do snag a Zen2, I'll definitely letcha know. If you snag one soon, I'd love to hear how it works on these boards. From what I've read the VRM's on these are similar to the higher-end boards so taking on the higher-end Zen2 CPU's shouldn't be an issue at all.


Well, either way good to hear!

And yeah, it's really not a bad board. Buildzoid himself called it overbuilt, heh. Funny anecdote. Back when I first assembled this system was having some rounds of everyone's favorite game... "Testbench With Your Main Rig." I wanted to see what the absolute max thermal, power, and stability headroom was for the setup... mostly out of boredom. I figured if I fry it, my 40 lashes is buying new hardware. And somehow life goes on...

But I digress. I was getting to max power draw on air, for my particular setup, anyway. With an overclock just a hair over 4.3ghz and a ton of voltage, I managed to get over 250W ripping through the traces... can't remember the exact number but it was definitely closer to 300W than 200! That I remember distinctly. Upon loading the system down, just trying to hit everything at once, wattage pegged at 250 and my eyes bugged out as I watched it steadily climb. I did this a small handful of times... always with the same conclusion. Hard power down... just up and quit. Now, here's where it gets kind of interesting. The CPU was actually stable enough to complete the tests consistently, which I learned by turning the voltage down a couple of stops. If I really pushed I could make it toss up a WHEA or induce a hard lock, but no power-down. Also of note was that when the shutdowns occurred, I wasn't yet at TJmax... more like upper 80s with spikes in low 90's, where the chip again generally kept chugging with just a little lower voltage. Given all of this, I can only assume the VRM's were triggering the shutdown. That had to be the point where the current and sheer power caused them to get away abruptly. More telling, without a cooldown it would trigger pretty much immediately. Following a cooldown I would gain a minute of runtime. I could almost predict it with a stopwatch... which again makes me think temperature, as temperature climbs usually occur consistently... same loads, same base point, same temperature curve. It hits a certain, specific point and there just is no more give left.

I mean, clearly there was enough wiggle everywhere else. To me 280w sounds about right, if not sliightly generous. Probably a little more with significant cooling, though I'd never go there without confirming the kind of current the components on-board are actually up for. No sense in knowingly frying my board with total assurance of that outcome. But bleh... even if I slice a good chunk of that off, still seems like plenty, as long as I'm not bombing the thing with ridiculous unrealistic multithreaded loads all day long.

Anywho... I stopped after that. Sure, I coulda had a new board in two days max if I fried it then and there. Just decided maybe that wasn't so favorable 

Really just total speculation on my part, but given that experience with this board, I feel like I can safely assume VRM's will not be a concern and likely would not be with even a 3900x. Not like the TDP's have changed drastically from past generations. I dunno, haven't looked at what kind of power draw people are ACTUALLY seeing with them, but I'm betting it's nothing too scary for my board. But then, I assume that to be true 90% of the time, with 90% of all boards running any consumer Ryzen chip. Under certain circumstances you _can_ get them to pull Intel levels of power - been there, done that, but it's not like they are known for running that way without serious coercion. I dunno, I haven't been looking much at the 12-core Ryzens so correct me if I'm wrong. I'm talking purely theoretical here.

But really, looking at TPU's own numbers for max power draw, I don't see why this board couldn't handle a 3900x if it can handle a 2700x... we're talking not even 20w difference.





The only showstopper would be if the BIOS was coded to prevent it from accepting it, which I think would be strange. So many other factors I'm not considering... but it's interesting to think about...

But again, I would have to look at real power scenarios for the 3900x. I assume no troubles, unless we're talking the really seedy 6 'phases' on a doubler to give you an actual 3 crappy ones types of affairs. The Strix x370-f is... what? 8+2? Like, a real, not-cheap one at that. Some people get into too much of a tizzy over VRM's, I think.

EDIT: Seems to be some conflicting information on the board. Some say 6 for vcore and 2-phase doubled for SOC. Others say 8+2. Honestly couldn't say which it actually is. Either one is probably good though. 60A International Rectifier power stages too! That was a major motivator for me... kinda thinking if I upgrade later that would come in handy, and if not would undoubtedly run a tad cooler and more efficiently. So definitely up to a 3900x on paper. Very little doubt there.

My only concern is compatibility. If there will be problems at all, that'll be it. If it's listed I can be reasonably sure it will boot, but I can't be sure what silly things won't work, or won't work right  Well, and maybe pushing potentially half-fried VRM's on this particular board  I'm not too smart sometimes. But I know and accept it, so it's cool. I have a pattern where I get going with a setup and settle-in for a while until inevitably I get the irresistible urge to fuck with things and end up swapping components long before they wear out, or even become obsolete.

Suffice to say lifespan is not my primary concern, as long as I can potentially squeeze a few short years out. With that in mind, why not have a little fun? And hey, if it runs high-end Zen 2 stable with PBO, that's pretty kickass. Probably worth trying and sharing. This board is going for $150 new on Amazon, and under ~$120 used. Might actually be a total winner for a very solid budget option for those who want to run the latest Ryzen-series chips for the performance but don't care quite so much about pcie 4.0 or perhaps getting the aaaabbbsolute fastest RAM clocks possible (though that'll be interesting too! Can't wait to see how that goes.) Would be a steal for people not feeling the crazy prices or caring for the features on fancy x570 boards but still wanting an actual good board that looks pretty good and has a strong foundation. It's an older board now... one of their first Ryzen boards. But it's also not a budget board.

If it works, this board will have then run a member of every Ryzen family to date in it. Part of why I want to do it. When's the last time something like that happened with a platform? Kind of makes for a neat way to save some cash on a build, for those willing to do some research.

So yeah, one way or another, I'll be sure to chime in on how it goes and try to break down in detail how everything shakes down. Have some fun and hopefully come out with some helpful information for people out there. I also have the B350-F that I can't get rid of. It has some problems with the USB power bus and I sent it out to Asus for repair but it seems they just tested it and sent it back to me lol, so I'm stuck with it. But I can also play with that at some point. There are BIOS versions good for Ryzen 3000 available for it now, too.

At any rate, gimme a month and a half or so to gather funds and I'll have the thing in my hands. Maybe in two months time there will be some 3900x's for less than the roughly *$850* they're going for at the moment! :O If I could get a 3900x for a non-insane price I might be inclined to hold out for the cash and try it... and if it's not holding up or for whatever reason it just won't run, I'll set my sights on an x570 or a really good x470... and just ride on the excellent 2600/x370 setup for a lil longer. Otherwise, 3700x for ~$350 in just shy of two months is sounding more realistic lol.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 26, 2019)

ABBA just came out for my ITX board... time to test that out

Wow abba has changed things... the system idles a LOT more than ABB did, CPU-Z is having a field day trying to report the clocks (instead of ABB showing max all the time, i see it idle and flicker around now)
Thanks to a 103Mhz BCLK i also saw a flat 4350MHz in CPUZ bench for single and multicore... yeah, ABBA is doing good things

edit: Unique to my board and maybe other asus, i can finally use BCLK and DOCP (XMP) at the same time - previous builds would disable turbo the second you adjust bclk with DOCP on


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## GoldenX (Sep 26, 2019)

300 series from MSI is kinda dead, it only received the beta for the 3000 series.
I guess they will update again when the 3950X releases.


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## NoJuan999 (Sep 26, 2019)

ABBA BIOS 2801 for my ROG Strix B450-F dropped yesterday.
Not a huge change on my board/CPU, Max Boost is still 4.425 Ghz single core and 4.125 to 4.275 Ghz all core.
The Idle voltage and temps dropped a bit though (according to Ryzen Master and HWInfo).
It was idling at around 32c to 34c on the ABB BIOS at .9v, now it ildes at 30c to 32c at .3 to .5v using the Ryzen Balanced Power Plan.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Sep 26, 2019)

NoJuan999 said:


> ABBA BIOS 2801 for my ROG Strix B450-F dropped yesterday.
> Not a huge change on my board/CPU, Max Boost is still 4.425 Ghz and 4.125 to 4.275 Ghz all core.
> The Idle voltage and temps dropped a bit though (according to Ryzen master and HWInfo).
> It was idling at around 32c to 34c on the ABB BIOS at .9v, now it ildes at 30c to 32c at .3 to .5v using the Ryzen Balanced Power Plan.


Change your power plan to Best Performance and you should boost higher, if only by a bit.


----------



## NoJuan999 (Sep 26, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Change your power plan to Best Performance and you should boost higher, if only by a bit.


I will later for a few Cinbench runs but I like it on Balanced for 24/7 use.
I just played Gears 5 for a while and my Max all core boost according to MSI Afterburner and HWInfo (run separately) is 4.275 GHz which is better than the 4.225 GHz I had on the last BIOS.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Sep 27, 2019)

> A CPU may have multiple “favored” cores (logical processors of the highest available scheduling class). To provide better performance and reliability, we have implemented a rotation policy that distributes work more fairly among these favored cores.











						Testing the throttled delivery approach for 19H2
					

UPDATE 10/8: Today, we have released KB4517389 which applies to both 19H1 and 19H2. For Windows Insiders in Release Preview on 19H2, this will update them to Build 18363.418. UPDATE 10/3: Today, we have released KB4524147 which applies to both 19H1 and 19H2. For Windows Insiders in Release...




					blogs.windows.com


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## NoJuan999 (Sep 27, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Testing the throttled delivery approach for 19H2
> 
> 
> UPDATE 10/8: Today, we have released KB4517389 which applies to both 19H1 and 19H2. For Windows Insiders in Release Preview on 19H2, this will update them to Build 18363.418. UPDATE 10/3: Today, we have released KB4524147 which applies to both 19H1 and 19H2. For Windows Insiders in Release...
> ...


After a few more hours of playing Gears 5 with my Performance Enhancer set to level 3 OC,
I had 6 cores running from 4.325 to 4.350 GHz and the other two hit 4.275 GHz according to HWinfo.
Hopefully that update will improve it even more.


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## Mussels (Sep 27, 2019)

What is the performance enhancer, its really vague in the BIOS description


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## NoJuan999 (Sep 27, 2019)

Mussels said:


> What is the performance enhancer, its really vague in the BIOS description


From Reddit:
Information to note when using Performance Enhancer.
With eXtended Frequency Range (XFR) version 2, there are configurable options which can increase boost frequencies and duration.
The available options are PPT, TDC and EDC under “Advanced\AMD CBS\NBIO Common Options\Precision Boost Override Configuration”.
The BIOS item “Performance Enhancer“ tunes these options in a simple way.
Level 1 and 2 rely only on the AMD provided options mentioned.
Level 3 and 4 has a few tweaks of our own (with the help from The Stilt) which causes XFR to always boost to the highest possible frequency.
When using Level 3/4, make sure to use the Balanced power profile, or adjust the “Minimum Processor State” to below 50% on your preferred profile.
Otherwise, Core Performance Boost (CPB) will not work properly and single threaded performance will suffer. Additionally there’s a grace period of roughly a minute after entering the operating system until P-states are engaged properly.
Each CPU is different and boosts to different frequencies, the same settings on two different samples will give different results.
The increased frequencies might be too high for some CPUs or require additional voltage.
When using this function, it’s best to rely on Offset Mode for the CPU Core Voltage.

And from different Reddit source:
Level 1 & 2 are using constraints recommended by AMD for silicon reliability and life span.

Level 3 & 4 are enhanced versions by the Stilt and ASUS and is basically an overclock. From what i remember, they ignore power and current limits to achieve higher clocks.

Level 3 & 4 (4 especially) can put quite a high voltage through the chip 1.5v+ under lower core workloads which is quite bad for silicon reliability over the long term. You can of course and as others have said set a negative offset in the BIOS and see if your still stable. Although i found that while under all core load my voltages were nice, under lesser core workloads it still sat constantly at 1.45-1.49v, which i didnt like.

From My experience:
For 24/7 use Level 2 is recommended for a good balance between Performance and Lower Power consumption/heat.
I personally found that I can run Level 3 with the Ryzen balanced power Plan set with a 10% minimum processor state and my CPU voltage drops to .9v at idle and maxes out around 1.48v when bench testing.
When gaming my voltage stays around 1.35 to 1.38v.
At Level 2 voltage maxes out at 1.35v when bench testing and is only around 1.25v when gaming and my clocks are around 100 to 150 Mhz lower.

PS
I keep my BCLK on 100 MHz and have my RAM set with DOCP to 3200 with slightly tighter timings.


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## Mussels (Sep 28, 2019)

i'm on DOCP 3200 and 103Mhz bclk pretty happily, trying to keep temps down with summer coming so i'm looking for tweaks to boost low core clocks, while keeping all core wattage down

probs make a custom PBO setup with high everything but total wattage to figure that out
(ITX build may not like summer heat, basically. i wanna go a 3000 series CPU to drop the heat)


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 28, 2019)

Mussels said:


> i'm on DOCP 3200 and 103Mhz bclk pretty happily, trying to keep temps down with summer coming so i'm looking for tweaks to boost low core clocks, while keeping all core wattage down
> 
> probs make a custom PBO setup with high everything but total wattage to figure that out
> (ITX build may not like summer heat, basically. i wanna go a 3000 series CPU to drop the heat)



I'm not sure you should go into Ryzen 3000 with the intention of reducing temperatures, as you may find yourself in for an unpleasant surprise. Now, with performance and efficiency in mind, you most definitely should  

So far, I really like what 1.0.0.3ABBA has done. Idle is stable on temperatures, and a firmware change now allows HWInfo to read CCD temp (the actual cores portion as opposed to the usual Tdie. Benchmarks aren't being favoured as the multipliers quickly back down from 43-44x to 40x, but I suspect that enabling PBO again would quickly solve that issue for benchmark warriors. Light benches like CPU-Z perform well. On the other hand, 44x is being achieved on roughly half of the cores, whereas ABB would top out at 43.5x on just the fastest core.

End result is that gaming stays quiet around 55-60c with max boost on the cores that need it, while benchmarking is reasonable at 60-70 up to the usual 77c in P95 as the CPU is smart enough to scale back the clocks when faced with that kind of load. For being stuck in a 12L case that goes everywhere with a focus on reliability, it's perfect.

Tom's has a new nonsensical article "reviewing" 1.0.0.3ABBA on a 3700X and Taichi, written by a staff member too dense to understand, 2 months after release, that 1.4v is not being put through the CPU while it's under any semblance of actual load. All with the clickbait title implying that 3700X can't hit boost clocks at -180c, when in all likelihood, PEBCAK

Y'all think I should try a 32GB Trident Z kit at the same 3200/C16 to see if the Aorus can do it? I only stepped down to 16GB because the LPX 32GB kit wouldn't work.


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## Mussels (Sep 28, 2019)

not reducing temperatures of the CPU, reducing the wattage/heat fed into my PC

hot air from the CPU is fed into my case air, which cools my GPU AIO - so every watt i save there, has a payoff in lowering the GPU temps


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 28, 2019)

Mussels said:


> not reducing temperatures of the CPU, reducing the wattage/heat fed into my PC
> 
> hot air from the CPU is fed into my case air, which cools my GPU AIO - so every watt i save there, has a payoff in lowering the GPU temps


Front mounted rad?


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## TheLostSwede (Sep 28, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> I'm not sure you should go into Ryzen 3000 with the intention of reducing temperatures, as you may find yourself in for an unpleasant surprise. Now, with performance and efficiency in mind, you most definitely should
> 
> So far, I really like what 1.0.0.3ABBA has done. Idle is stable on temperatures, and a firmware change now allows HWInfo to read CCD temp (the actual cores portion as opposed to the usual Tdie. Benchmarks aren't being favoured as the multipliers quickly back down from 43-44x to 40x, but I suspect that enabling PBO again would quickly solve that issue for benchmark warriors. Light benches like CPU-Z perform well. On the other hand, 44x is being achieved on roughly half of the cores, whereas ABB would top out at 43.5x on just the fastest core.
> 
> ...


Splave is not a staff writer, he's a "professional" overclocker.
That said, he clearly did something wrong, as my 3800X happily boosts to 4,600MHz using an AIO. Obviously only on a couple of cores, but all cores can go beyond 4,500MHz.
I think wonting articles like that, without even trying different boards from at least a couple of manufacturers is also fishy.
Not all boards work the same, as we've seen here and different manufacturers have had varying success with their UEFI's when it comes to performance.
As such, that article from Tom's should mostly be ignored, imho of course...


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 28, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Splave is not a staff writer, he's a "professional" overclocker.
> That said, he clearly did something wrong, as my 3800X happily boosts to 4,600MHz using an AIO. Obviously only on a couple of cores, but all cores can go beyond 4,500MHz.
> I think wonting articles like that, without even trying different boards from at least a couple of manufacturers is also fishy.
> Not all boards work the same, as we've seen here and different manufacturers have had varying success with their UEFI's when it comes to performance.
> As such, that article from Tom's should mostly be ignored, imho of course...


I think a lot of people having issues are having difficulty because of not realising all the effective parameters, i have now messed about enough to have worked through some conclusions.
Ryzen master if loaded Will take over the clocks for example.
PBO seams to not work as intended since it pushes volts not core speed which ends up counter productive.
Asus pre configured overclocking was made for earlier chips and still works the same so is ineffective on third gen, comparative to gen two that is.
Any auto tune setting will likely reduce top clock.
Default clock
Default tuning hits highest clocks.
Manually setting a max multi is the only way to get an all core boost that You ask for constantly but at a high heat cost.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 28, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Front mounted rad?



Yup. The H55 rear mounted exhaust runs the GPU atm and struggles to keep up when both are fully loaded, so i can either lower wattages or lower wattages and switch the coolers around (65W CPU wont overload a 120mm AIO)


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 28, 2019)

Mussels said:


> Yup. The H55 rear mounted exhaust runs the GPU atm and struggles to keep up when both are fully loaded, so i can either lower wattages or lower wattages and switch the coolers around (65W CPU wont overload a 120mm AIO)


You've likely already given this thought, but a new case might serve you well. One where you can mount the longer rad up top as to exhaust the heat straight out of the case.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 28, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> You've likely already given this thought, but a new case might serve you well. One where you can mount the longer rad up top as to exhaust the heat straight out of the case.



This current system is a merger between my old build and my VR rig, moved house and needs changed.
Current plan is lower wattage CPU, better case when i find one i like.

(I'm using a lot of old cooling hardware due to a newfound hatred of my AIO's requiring USB connections, when iCUE had some bad releases it was a frigging nightmare to keep everything working correctly. 65W 3700x with a pretty tower air cooler and the H100 on the 1080 could make me happy)


----------



## the54thvoid (Sep 28, 2019)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> I think a lot of people having issues are having difficulty because of not realising all the effective parameters, i have now messed about enough to have worked through some conclusions.
> Ryzen master if loaded Will take over the clocks for example.
> PBO seams to not work as intended since it pushes volts not core speed which ends up counter productive.
> Asus pre configured overclocking was made for earlier chips and still works the same so is ineffective on third gen, comparative to gen two that is.
> ...



PBO doesn't boost clocks, it's not meant to. It allows a longer sustained clock speed, up to the maximum boost clock (not higher) as long as three different power and heat parameters are in check.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 28, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Splave is not a staff writer, he's a "professional" overclocker.
> That said, he clearly did something wrong, as my 3800X happily boosts to 4,600MHz using an AIO. Obviously only on a couple of cores, but all cores can go beyond 4,500MHz.
> I think wonting articles like that, without even trying different boards from at least a couple of manufacturers is also fishy.
> Not all boards work the same, as we've seen here and different manufacturers have had varying success with their UEFI's when it comes to performance.
> As such, that article from Tom's should mostly be ignored, imho of course...





theoneandonlymrk said:


> I think a lot of people having issues are having difficulty because of not realising all the effective parameters, i have now messed about enough to have worked through some conclusions.
> Ryzen master if loaded Will take over the clocks for example.
> PBO seams to not work as intended since it pushes volts not core speed which ends up counter productive.
> Asus pre configured overclocking was made for earlier chips and still works the same so is ineffective on third gen, comparative to gen two that is.
> ...



Well, that explains a lot. There's already so much misinformation that goes around regarding voltages on Ryzen 3000, so this kind of "content" from a site like Tom's doesn't help.

I don't think he's got the entirely wrong idea, just that he took a misguided, simplistic approach and turned it into clickbait. Fixed freq is still the best way to bench and explore the voltage limits of your chip because you can focus on Vcore and LLC at a single volt value that matters. The only issue is that all the limits and safeguards come off on fixed freq and your CPU is free to pump out as much heat and power consumption as it would like at whatever voltage you've set. With boost and Vcore offset, I've been finding that most of the instability shows up in light load and high boost, which is hard to get around because conventional stress tests pass with flying colours.

Swede is right, despite being the same version of AGESA there's so much variation in UEFI implementation between vendors, so just because ABBA behaves properly on one board is no indication even another board from the same vendor will perform the same. Add to that the fact that a lot of UEFIs copy-pasted functions like CPB over from Ryzen 2000, not knowing that they would have completely different and possibly unwanted effects (CPB can disable boost entirely) on Ryzen 3000.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 29, 2019)

I mean, ABBA performs differently on my board depending if my settings are on 'auto' or 'default' because to ASUS, those are different things.
AMD need to force them to be more consistent in the future.


----------



## GoldenX (Sep 29, 2019)

Mussels said:


> I mean, ABBA performs differently on my board depending if my settings are on 'auto' or 'default' because to ASUS, those are different things.
> AMD need to force them to be more consistent in the future.


I have that same problem with Asus since 2006 on 775.


----------



## Xzibit (Sep 29, 2019)

Mussels said:


> I mean, ABBA performs differently on my board depending if my settings are on 'auto' or 'default' because to ASUS, those are different things.
> *AMD need to force them to be more consistent in the future.*



It be nice but I doubt it. Like always boards vendors look to up one another by implementing their own "stock" settings.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Sep 29, 2019)

Mussels said:


> I mean, ABBA performs differently on my board depending if my settings are on 'auto' or 'default' because to ASUS, those are different things.
> AMD need to force them to be more consistent in the future.


That's really bizarre. And auto is one of those settings that seems to work on voodoo and black magic with a sprinkle of Taiwanese Guai Guai, just to confuse everyone.








						Hangry computer - Scandinavia and the World
					

Webcomic: In Taiwan there's a belief among a lot of people that electronics will only work if you place Kuai Kuai snacks near them. The




					satwcomic.com


----------



## Mussels (Sep 30, 2019)

If/when i get a 3700x, part of me wants to run my big AIO for the GPU and stay with the wraith prism cause it looks pretty


----------



## GoldenX (Sep 30, 2019)

Mussels said:


> If/when i get a 3700x, part of me wants to run my big AIO for the GPU and stay with the wraith prism cause it looks pretty


Cooler/Marketing team: "job done".
It sure looks nice.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 30, 2019)

I always come up with upgrade plans, even if i rarely follow them

Currently pondering 3700x with wraith prism (noise dependant) or a dark rock slim with my ML120 fans
180W TDP design on a 65W CPU should be beyond overkill, and i get to keep my RGB fans


----------



## Xzibit (Sep 30, 2019)

Incase some are unaware. New Chipset drivers are out.

*v1.9.27.1033*

*Supports:*
Windows® 7/10 for
2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor
7th-Gen AMD A-Series Processors
AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor
AMD X470 Chipset
AMD X370 Chipset
AMD B450 Chipset
AMD B350 Chipset
AMD A320 Chipset
Windows® 10 only for
3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor
2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ Processor
AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ Processor
AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor with Radeon™ Vega Graphics
AMD Ryzen™ Mobile Processor with Radeon™ Vega Graphics
AMD X399 Chipset
        AMD X570 Chipset
This is an all-new chipset software installer with updated UI, optimized package size, package versioning unique to the chipset drivers, and improved installer performance.
*Package Includes:*
        AMD Chipset Drivers
AMD Ryzen™ Power Plans (required for UEFI CPPC2 in Windows® 10 May 2019 Update)
Contains desktop idle optimizations for 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Processors


----------



## robot zombie (Sep 30, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> I'm not sure you should go into Ryzen 3000 with the intention of reducing temperatures, as you may find yourself in for an unpleasant surprise. Now, with performance and efficiency in mind, you most definitely should
> 
> So far, I really like what 1.0.0.3ABBA has done. Idle is stable on temperatures, and a firmware change now allows HWInfo to read CCD temp (the actual cores portion as opposed to the usual Tdie. Benchmarks aren't being favoured as the multipliers quickly back down from 43-44x to 40x, but I suspect that enabling PBO again would quickly solve that issue for benchmark warriors. Light benches like CPU-Z perform well. On the other hand, 44x is being achieved on roughly half of the cores, whereas ABB would top out at 43.5x on just the fastest core.
> 
> ...


Good stuff... that's what my board's BIOS is packing now. Very reassuring! I would be really curious to see how PBO works out, though.

I say if you've got the kit, run that shit! I dunno if I'd be going out of my way to buy some nice TridentZ, though. But then I'm the guy who wants to put a 3900x in a midrange X370, so... ...I mean it's valuable information  

And yeah... Tom's isn't exactly the pinnacle of good information or intrigue these days. Shame because in the past I've really liked their in-depth review style for components - they really cover a lot and get into the reasons for this and that... they were always good at sticking with the times when maybe all of the info wasn't quite converging in all of the different communities. But their editorials are often complete garbage... riddled with the same flavor of misinformation and sprinklings of personality dysfunction common in gaming journalism. Toss it up, keep it moving...



Mussels said:


> I always come up with upgrade plans, even if i rarely follow them


Same... I had originally meant to do an all new Ryzen 3000 build with liquid and all. Now I'm looking at just keeping most of my existing stuff, motherboard and all, dropping it in a new case (something reasonably liquid-cooling-friendly in case I ever summon my willpower - and not as beat-up as my S340 Elite,) and installing a Ryzen 3000 into that. I have an extra ML140 for a triple-fan case as well as the Dark Rock 4 200w TDP cooler, along with a Corsair Rm650x, so I'm set for any chip that'll run on that board with pretty much any GPU I'd want to run (assuming AMD doesn't come up with a power-sucker I've just gotta have, not likely...) fortunately the stuff I do invest in doesn't always need to be upgraded, so if for whatever reason I can't have it all, I can have at least the main thing I want and not suffer just by living with the rest. AMD is helping big-time with that, letting my old reliable mobo take their newest chips. I had always hoped that would work out back when Ryzen first showed up... got my wish and I'm just trying to be glad I can't fully justify an X570 just yet.  Such is life when you have other hobbies and limited income. The moment I find a new girlfriend it's basically all over for me... though maybe this time around I try to find one that actually wants to have a job and make money to help make things happen...


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 1, 2019)

Xzibit said:


> Incase some are unaware. New Chipset drivers are out.
> 
> *v1.9.27.1033*
> 
> ...



v1.9.27.1033 chipset drivers basically undid most of my improvements resulting from 1.0.0.3ABBA and returned my rig to 1.0.0.3ABB performance, despite being on ABBA. I'm getting sick and tired of AMD's changelog team slapping "idle improvements" on every AGESA and chipset update and telling us nothing else about what was changed, maybe they need a good flogging to remind them that they're on the job.

Benches better on single and multi in CPU-Z (I don't really do much benchmarking as I look for better voltage and temp performance), but so did 1.0.0.3ABB. Obviously, at the cost of idle thermals, which pretty much are indistinguishable from ABB with -0.075V offset.




Also, while practical performance is improved, the CPU multipliers are out of wack again. Only one core is hitting 44x now, as opposed to 3 of them on the old drivers.



The new drivers bring back some of the "snappiness" of ABB when opening programs, kind of a hallmark of Ryzen 3000 over Intel platforms, at this point. I don't mind the performance boost; 1.0.0.3ABBA took away the responsiveness in favour of gaining a calmer idle and the new "idle filter" to stop programs from requesting boost all the damn time.

But the new chipset drivers advertise "desktop idle optimizations" and not "performance improvements", and it appears that they've just done the exact opposite and rolled back most of ABBA's changes.

Ryzen Balanced and Windows Balanced seem to do the same things now.


----------



## Roddey (Oct 1, 2019)

I backed up before I installed the new chipset drivers. The thing is, that using Macron Reflect it only took 1 minute 19 seconds to restore. I think thats amazing, so fast that its done by the time I can get a glass of water. New nvme drives.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Oct 1, 2019)

New Gigabyte beta UEFI's are out for some of their X570 boards, F7c in case of the Aorus Master.





						GIGABYTE Latest Beta BIOS
					

Warning Some of beta BIOSes are still undergoing compatibility testing. GIGABYTE is sharing these BIOSes for testing purposes only and are not meant f




					forums.tweaktown.com


----------



## GoldenX (Oct 1, 2019)

If, for any reason, your vendor didn't give you the ABBA goods:








						AGESA FW stack patched bioses for 3rd gen
					

I decided to put these under a separate thread, since there are already quite many bioses available.  File naming: Original bios build (version), M = modified, FI (4649 ASCII, i.e. SMU 46.49). Besides the actual SMU FW, these files also contain up to date PSP, PMU (IMC) FWs, bootloaders and...




					www.overclock.net


----------



## GoldenX (Oct 4, 2019)

Nvm the prefious post. New official beta bios from MSI with ABBA.


----------



## AlienIsGOD (Oct 11, 2019)

gave my 2700 a lil rub  





3.6ghz on all cores


----------



## mstenholm (Oct 11, 2019)

AlienIsGOD said:


> gave my 2700 a lil rub
> 
> View attachment 133854
> 
> 3.6ghz on all cores


First off - congtratulation with the huge OC  

My 2700Xs was off (power cut) for a longer period. I have a Kill-a-Watt permanent hooked up on one off them and at re-start I noticed that the power draw had gone up from 200 to 260 W. It turns out that that rig decided to run one core at 4200 MHz and the rest on base so instead of 8 times 3850 MHz I got 1 times 4200 and the rest at 3600 MHz at the cost of 60 W. 1x4200 plus 7x3600 => 3675 MHz average. A poor deal. OC'ing the old ones isn't really worth it, at least not for us running them 24/7 @ 100% CPU. Do you have any power consumption numbers?


----------



## AlienIsGOD (Oct 11, 2019)

mstenholm said:


> First off - congtratulation with the huge OC
> 
> My 2700Xs was off (power cut) for a longer period. I have a Kill-a-Watt permanent hooked up on one off them and at re-start I noticed that the power draw had gone up from 200 to 260 W. It turns out that that rig decided to run one core at 4200 MHz and the rest on base so instead of 8 times 3850 MHz I got 1 times 4200 and the rest at 3600 MHz at the cost of 60 W. 1x4200 plus 7x3600 => 3675 MHz average. A poor deal. OC'ing the old ones isn't really worth it, at least not for us running them 24/7 @ 100% CPU. Do you have any power consumption numbers?



I do not have power numbers atm. I only do WCG part time on my 2700 atm so 24 / 7 usage at 100% never happens (I use 75% of cpu in WCG settings).


----------



## robot zombie (Oct 15, 2019)

Welp, pulled the trigger on a little case refresh. In two weeks, I need to settle on my CPU upgrade. Still pretty torn between a 3700x and a 3900x. I'm seeing the latter popping up for just a little over MSRP now, so that's officially on the table. So long as they're going at the non-extorted rates.

12c/24t is pretty appealing and it looks like my mobo can run it. I can benefit from that for a few different things, along with a RAM upgrade. Namely music production and VM's for tinkering. I could have a lot of fun with that. Plus bragging rights, I suppose. The problem (potentially) is thermals. I assume it's not so easy to cool. Honestly, that's fine by me - my ultimate endgame at this point is a full custom loop. But that's not going to happen right away. In the meantime it will be on air in a midsize ATX. Which I'm sure will work fine, but at what cost? My main concern is really reigning-in the noise - I've been spoiled rotten by the near-silence of my super-efficient 2600 air-cooled setup. But I'm also concerned that performance will suffer due to cooling limitations to the point where the money spent hides behind the heat. But I'll tell you just once I'd like to play around with one of their monster-tier chips. Mini-monster's close enough. Do I need it? Nah. Does it matter... ehhhhhh depends.

8c/16t is still quite doable, though I'll be losing some juju. Cheaper, much more reasonably cooled, still quite capable. Sure bet to run perfect when all is really said and done. I played it safe last time I bought an AMD CPU and was really pretty impressed by what I actually got out of it.

There's a little voice in my head chanting which one I want. I'll leave yall to guess which one.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Oct 15, 2019)

If someone's interested in some extreme memory settings for their Ryzen 3000...


----------



## potato580+ (Oct 24, 2019)

i try to underclock my cpu and let the gpu do all work hehe






so does that mean my cpu only giving around less than 10fps? gpu is all we need for gaming i supose, testing high preset kiwami 2 fullhd, ram xmp 2933 mode 1.32v, with red devil boost mode 99%-100 usage, max hit 57fps, min 30/40fps in larger stage like kamurocho, while usually with stock clock/ocing 3.5-4.0ghz average is 50-60fps, i think this is what it means by bootleneck, or this is the way of raven ridge working hehe
forget it, this even not stable, i got bsod justnow lol


----------



## robot zombie (Oct 24, 2019)

potato580+ said:


> i try to underclock my cpu and let the gpu do all work hehe
> View attachment 134827View attachment 134828
> so does that mean my cpu only giving around less than 10fps? gpu is all we need for gaming i supose, testing high preset kiwami 2 fullhd, ram xmp 2933 mode 1.32v, with red devil boost mode 99%-100 usage, max hit 57fps, min 30/40fps in larger stage like kamurocho, while usually with stock clock/ocing 3.5-4.0ghz average is 50-60fps, i think this is what it means by bootleneck, or this is the way of raven ridge working hehe
> forget it, this even not stable, i got bsod justnow lol


Tbf CPU bottlenecks aren't all about clock speed.


----------



## moproblems99 (Oct 24, 2019)

Anybody try the new 1.0.0.4 Agesa?  It's available for the Taichi so I'll likely grab it tonight.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 25, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> Anybody try the new 1.0.0.4 Agesa?  It's available for the Taichi so I'll likely grab it tonight.




Ooooooh, exciting times


----------



## thesmokingman (Oct 25, 2019)

There's a new agesa already? Let's go Asus!


----------



## potato580+ (Oct 25, 2019)

hmm not sure which one is likely bios mention, i couldnt found one, even my mb listed on amd forums, only ami, well whatever





ah found it


so whats this for? performance gain or whatelse


----------



## Kursah (Oct 25, 2019)

thesmokingman said:


> There's a new agesa already? Let's go Asus!



Right? Patiently waiting for my Strix X370-f Gaming to catch up. Though admittedly the last update was an improvement over the previous 5-6, and I'm not dissatisfied at the moment.


----------



## moproblems99 (Oct 25, 2019)

This is the one that is supposed to have over 100 improvements that was in the news last month.

I didn't grab it tonight by the way.  Prob this weekend.


----------



## Jism (Oct 25, 2019)

AlienIsGOD said:


> gave my 2700 a lil rub
> 
> View attachment 133854
> 
> 3.6ghz on all cores



That voltage. 

I am not touching manual OC anymore. PBO / XFR does the rest. I've applied a 360mm rad with 6x fans (push pull) and a slight slight slight undervolt to keep the CPU below 60 degrees at full load. Result? Constant 4.2Ghz all core boost in tests like IBT. At least the heat is no longer a problem now. 

Edit: i have a 2700X with 3600Mhz / 32GB of RAM.


----------



## Samiam66 (Oct 25, 2019)

No Agesa update for Asrock Taichi....X470
Mfg said it will be about two more weeks 

Second week of November


----------



## Jism (Oct 25, 2019)

1.469mv ? These chips do degrade fast. Thats way over the line there for a all-core voltage.


----------



## Samiam66 (Oct 25, 2019)

Jism said:


> 1.469mv ? These chips do degrade fast. Thats way over the line there for a all-core voltage.




its not overclocked   bios settings all default


----------



## TheLostSwede (Oct 25, 2019)

AGESA 1.0.0.4b is already with the board makers.


----------



## moproblems99 (Oct 25, 2019)

Samiam66 said:


> No Agesa update for Asrock Taichi....X470
> Mfg said it will be about two more weeks
> 
> Second week of November



I think there is a list here: https://www.tomshardware.com/amp/news/new-amd-ryzen-3000-firmware-microcode-40549-performance

X470 Taichi is on it.  Did you check ASRock?


----------



## kapone32 (Oct 25, 2019)

I could have sworn you could download the chipset drivers from AMD's site but it seems you need a BIOS update from your board maker. Is that true?


----------



## moproblems99 (Oct 25, 2019)

kapone32 said:


> I could have sworn you could download the chipset drivers from AMD's site but it seems you need a BIOS update from your board maker. Is that true?



You can download the chipset drivers....



moproblems99 said:


> You can download the chipset drivers....


----------



## Super XP (Oct 25, 2019)

My Ryzen 1700x still a solid performer since day one. 
Can't wait for ZEN 3.


----------



## Arrakis9 (Oct 25, 2019)

4.3Ghz... its under 120w and under 70c full load. need to do some game testing now, seems stable enough. yes SMT is disabled (gets me around 10FPS more in the MMO i play with it off).
huge props to gigabyte for building very strong VRM's this generation


----------



## Samiam66 (Oct 25, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> I think there is a list here: https://www.tomshardware.com/amp/news/new-amd-ryzen-3000-firmware-microcode-40549-performance
> 
> X470 Taichi is on it.  Did you check ASRock?




Yes spoke to asrock this morning they insist i wait on the Agesa update from them ...I can wait
We also talked about core voltage of Cpu being at 1.487 volts 

They had me take screen shots of the BIOS settings and cpuz   and made sure no other monitoring software 
is running

 im a network guy  not a gamer except for forza 7  ...so im open to being schooled


----------



## thesmokingman (Oct 25, 2019)

Jism said:


> 1.469mv ? *These chips do degrade fast. *Thats way over the line there for a all-core voltage.



Is that your opinion or is there data to support that?


----------



## Samiam66 (Oct 25, 2019)

thesmokingman said:


> Is that your opinion or is there data to support that?




pardon me..dont understand your statement


----------



## thesmokingman (Oct 25, 2019)

Samiam66 said:


> pardon me..dont understand your statement



You wrote the chips degrade fast. Do you have info about it?


----------



## Samiam66 (Oct 25, 2019)

thesmokingman said:


> You wrote the chips degrade fast. Do you have info about it?




Oh That was someone elses response (jism) not mine ...but im looking into it


----------



## thesmokingman (Oct 25, 2019)

Samiam66 said:


> Oh That was someone elses response (jism) not mine ...but im looking into it



Oh sorry doh lol. I was wondering that since like there's no degradation data I've seen since chips are new.

Oh also, that user jism is regurgitating Intel BS attacking AMD. See below... How would Intel even have any proof/info since Ryzen 3 is like months old lol.









						Too Hot to Last? Investigating Intel's Claims About Ryzen Reliability
					

Intel is promoting a theory that AMD reduced its boost clocks to improve reliability. We investigate the claims with some testing.




					www.tomshardware.com


----------



## Super XP (Oct 25, 2019)

thesmokingman said:


> Oh sorry doh lol. I was wondering that since like there's no degradation data I've seen since chips are new.
> 
> Oh also, that user jism is regurgitating Intel BS attacking AMD. See below... How would Intel even have any proof/info since Ryzen 3 is like months old lol.
> 
> ...


Chips don't degrade any faster. They last for a very long time. Of course if you increase the CPU voltage well above its intended recommendation,  regardless of CPU maker there's a chance the chip can be damaged.

But we are talking about major voltage increases. The processor should simply shutdown to prevent damage anyways.

Ignore any Intel claim about AMD, they are pissed off that AMD released a very competitive CPU line. Because Intel hates competition. Lol


----------



## Mussels (Oct 26, 2019)

Ryzen 3 will degrade based on amperage, not voltage

So the high voltage is there at low load, and the amperage stays low - as the load increases, the voltage (and therefore amperage) drops down. That was straight from one of the AMD engineers on reddit/twitter etc.


----------



## Samiam66 (Oct 27, 2019)

I appreciate everyone's input on this ...Since I didn't OC any of the components.  I didn't scrutinize the Cpuz numbers
My car got rear ended and ive been dealing with that issue   Insurance, body shops,  rental car ...have a open case
with ASrock  on this so we will see what comes of it .. 

The machine itself has been problem free since I assembled it..
Did have a bad pump on H100i  but corsair took care of that issue. 

thanks everyone


----------



## TheLostSwede (Oct 28, 2019)

AGESA 1.0.0.4
A slight improvement in memory read performance in AIDA.
Boost behaviour seems to have changed a bit as well, with at least some single threaded applications seemingly boosting to peak boost a lot more frequently than previous AGESA releases, at least from what I can tell with some quick testing.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 28, 2019)

i wanna see a list of the 100 improvements 1.0.0.4 was meant to heave


----------



## biffzinker (Oct 28, 2019)

Mussels said:


> i wanna see a list of the 100 improvements 1.0.0.4 was meant to heave


There was this on the front page yesterday.













						MSI Outs AM4 Motherboard BIOS Updates with AGESA Combo 1.0.0.4 Patch B
					

MSI, the world leading gaming motherboard manufacturer, takes initiative to release BIOS updates for AMD motherboards. This latest AMD Combo PI version 1.0.0.4 Patch B (SMU v46.54) has a massive improvement at all points concerning debugs and optimization for the previous version. Specifically...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## TheLostSwede (Oct 28, 2019)

I can confirm boot times are faster too, although I'm not quite seeing the numbers from MSI, my boot should be 4-5 seconds faster overall.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 28, 2019)

my boards still on ABBA, boo


----------



## Xzibit (Oct 31, 2019)

AGESA 1.0.0.4 so far is better then 1.0.0.3 ABBA for me

4.400x6, 4.375x2
25mhz improvement on the lower two cores. It also running a lot cooler by at least a few Cs during idle (1.0.0.3 ABBA = 42/43c)  32/35c now. Might be using low states better now.

They are some new additions that showed up in the BIOS/UEFI under overclocking and CPU features but haven't messed with them yet.

Unfortunate boot times are x2 longer then 1.0.0.3 ABBA for me from 18/19s to 40+secs now.


----------



## HD64G (Oct 31, 2019)

Mussels said:


> i wanna see a list of the 100 improvements 1.0.0.4 was meant to heave


Me thinks that the 100s of improvements were referred to those included partially in the next AGESAs as a sum of them, not only in the one you name in your post.


----------



## Xzibit (Oct 31, 2019)

One of the new options/features that i got with 1.0.0.4 patch B is called "Base Clock Boost"

Increases frequency of base clock but it also increases Bus clock and mem clock

Base Clock Boost = *OFF / AUTO*
4.400x6, 4.375x2
Max boost = 4.400x3
Bus Clock = 100
Mem Clock = 1800

Base Clock Boost = *ON / Mode 1*
4.436x7, 4.410x1
Max boost = 4.436x3
Bus Clock = 100
Mem Clock = 1814

Base Clock Boost = *ON / Mode 2*
4.444x6, 4.418x2
Max boost = 4.444x3
Bus Clock = 101
Mem Clock = 1818


----------



## Mussels (Nov 1, 2019)

Weird that you had higher boot times, thats meant to be something they fixed

curious to see how it affects me on 2700x, as ABBA did improve things for me


----------



## Xzibit (Nov 2, 2019)

Mussels said:


> Weird that you had higher boot times, thats meant to be something they fixed
> 
> curious to see how it affects me on 2700x, as ABBA did improve things for me



Figured it out.

Apparently 1.0.0.4 patch B doesn't get along with my old TV/RC card for WMC.  Took it out and it boots in 14 to 15 secs.


----------



## candle_86 (Nov 3, 2019)

Do these updates benefit my 1700x at all


----------



## GoldenX (Nov 3, 2019)

candle_86 said:


> Do these updates benefit my 1700x at all


I've seen some better turbos with the previous 1.0.0.3 ABBA update on my 1200.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 4, 2019)

candle_86 said:


> Do these updates benefit my 1700x at all



yeah, with rare exceptions its worth updating regardless of CPU gen


----------



## candle_86 (Nov 4, 2019)

Mussels said:


> yeah, with rare exceptions its worth updating regardless of CPU gen



I might do it then, I'm on an x370 board and I heard 3rd gen updates crippled functionality so I'm still running the 2018 bios


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## Mussels (Nov 4, 2019)

candle_86 said:


> I might do it then, I'm on an x370 board and I heard 3rd gen updates crippled functionality so I'm still running the 2018 bios



Some boards had issues, but thats not the agesas problem - thats shitty mobo makers


----------



## moproblems99 (Nov 6, 2019)

Anyone using the stock cooler on the new 1.0.0.4?  How are acoustics and the fan oscillations?


----------



## biffzinker (Nov 8, 2019)

MSI has a beta BIOS update posted for the B450 Tomahawk.

- Update AMD ComboPI1.0.0.4 Patch B (SMU v46.54)





						MSI  Global - The Leading Brand in High-end Gaming & Professional Creation
					

As a world leading gaming brand, MSI is the most trusted name in gaming and eSports. We stand by our principles of breakthroughs in design, and roll out the amazing gaming gear like motherboards, graphics cards, laptops and desktops.




					www.msi.com
				




A lot of new options added, now have independent CCX clock speed adjustment.






The Memory section in Task Manager is showing DDR4 clock speed, and Hardware reserved space again.


----------



## moproblems99 (Nov 9, 2019)

I've downloaded the beta bios but haven't flashed it yet.


----------



## robot zombie (Nov 10, 2019)

Fiiiinally got my 3900X installed today. It's been sitting and waiting patiently all week!

No fanfare setting things up. All I've done was 'max' my PBO settings and set RAM up to 3600/CL16/1800mhz FCLK. Basically, I set the PBO limits to 'motherboard' and gave it that +200mhz boost. RAM OC as dictated by the Ryzen timing calc. Of course I've also got the latest chipset drivers and BIOS (1.0.0.3 ABBA.) Running "AMD Ryzen High Performance" power plan... might play with 1usmus's custom plan at some point.

But... yeah. So pretty much standard. Good to see D.O.C.P. works on this board with Zen 2. Never got the profile for these DIMMs to boot with Zen or Zen+. Now it'll do it... 3600/CL18 but it does it! And I think for most people that would be fine. I never tested it outside of booting it up, though.

Specs/userbenchmark:

UserBenchmarks: Game 100%, Desk 144%, Work 137%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X - *99.2%*
GPU: Nvidia RTX 2060 - *92.3%*
SSD: Samsung 970 Evo NVMe PCIe M.2 500GB - *293.2%*
SSD: Samsung 860 Evo 250GB - *124.9%*
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 1TB - *66.4%*
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 4TB (2017) - *95.1%*
RAM: G.SKILL F4 DDR4 3600 C17 2x8GB - *127.2%*
MBD: Asus ROG STRIX X370-F GAMING

As far as cooling goes, it's all in a NZXT H710 w/ stock fans... with a Dark Rock 4 cooling the CPU.

CB Score/Goodies




The voltage definitely gets up there! But the scores look great, so if that's what it wants... can't argue. Temperatures don't seem that bad. I need to fix my fan curves. One really obnoxious thing about this mobo is that fan curves actually follow the mobo CPU reading, which is socket temp, instead of Tctl/Tdie. You have to set them more aggressively just to get normal reactions. I might get better results after tweaking them, cuz as it is now the fans could be thinking CPU temp is ~60C when it's more like 85C! You can see in the screenshots how low my max fan speeds are... they're lagging behind big time!



These two thumbnails are from when the tests were running. On the multi-threaded one, pretty high max temps @ ~85C. But voltages and boost seem right... always a little over 4ghz on all cores. SC looks good too. ~60C max with two cores boosting up to ~4.5ghz.

So from what I can see, it's pretty much boosting unrestrained. Temperatures stay below throttling, while clocks and voltage go right up to the limit. The idles really are on the high side at 40C-50C but when it gets to work it really goes and the temperatures are good for under-load. I'm assuming without BIOS updates later, the behavior it has now will be it... which is fine by me! Happy to see it readily boosting as high as it can go and performing how it's supposed to. Be interested to see how it does in games.

Now that I know I can get it right up to 3600 CL16 easily, I may go get another pair of the G.Skill RAM I bought for this rig to bring it up to 32GB. It's spec'd at 3600/17-18-18-38 but it actually runs 16-16-16-32 just fine. It's B-die, just not the BESSST B-die.

I can't believe everything works like it's supposed to. I'm kinda sad... there's nothing for me to do! I mean, I can push for more RAM speed... maybe see if I can get a 1900mhz FCLK for 3800mhz on my RAM. Bleh. Mostly I'll be playing with cooling. I've got 3 Corsair ML140's I can swap in for the front intake... and the curves all need fixing anyway. I'm sure I can bring those temps down by a decent amount.

I think this is the least tweaking I've ever felt was needed for a personal rig. On one hand, that's kinda sad, as I like getting into that. With the way these things are set up, there's just nothing you need to squeeze out, which isn't always so bad... it's kinda nice to not have to jump through hoops to get my new, expensive, bad-ass CPU to be as bad-ass as it can be.

Can't wait to really get going with this rig now! It's on a steady path to badassification. Next up is a full custom loop... and then maybe I'll play around with an all-core OC on this beast. Quite pleased with it so far. For all the crap people give ASUS about being overpriced and having bugs, I'll swear by this Strix X370-F. This thing has run every generation of Ryzen, from 1300X to 3900X without a hitch. The BIOS is full-featured and easy to use. All of the settings work and it doesn't have any funky boosting behavior (voltage is high at points but I don't think that can be helped.) The VRM's are good enough to drive any consumer Ryzen chip out there. Doesn't feel like I've lost out on anything not going over to an X570... or even an X470. Just pcie 4.0 in the former case.


----------



## moproblems99 (Nov 14, 2019)

So, I have been extra busy and not done much tweaking with my system yet but I noticed with Destiny 2 that only about 6 cores were hitting 4.2 and the other 6 cores were between 3.6 and 3.8.  I was sort of expecting the boost to be closer to 4.5 on 6 cores.  Granted, I still don't have pbo turned back on as I was getting better peak boost numbers with it off.

Edit: Mem speeds up to 3800:1900 with my CJR.  Timings are pretty loose right now 16-20-20-20-39 so I'll tighten them up a little later.


----------



## Wickedt (Nov 15, 2019)

Anybody looking for bios updates, Beta and Official for ASRock, look no more. (better then dowloading from random sites)

Official:     https://www.asrock.com/support/index.asp?cat=BIOS
Beta:   choose Beta in brackets at the title

On another note, it with a very cold day here were i live, i decided to run some tests with 1usmus Power Plan and Ryzen Balanced Power plan. As outdoor temperatures are very cold here, @-6C. I opened the sliding doors and pointed the fan at my open computer for cooling. Agesa 1.0.0.4B
Temps never went above 51C while running Cinebench R15 single core bench. 1usmus power plan, CR15 was 209, with Ryzen power plan, score was 201, so thats an 8 point jump.

Temperature definitlly affects the cpu performance and boosting.

















The point of all this is to see if the 1usmus power plan works as its supposed to, and this proves it does.
If you look at the cores that HW pick as the fastest, 1 and 2, we see a boost for the second choice of 34.2 Mhz, however, look at the core that was picked as the fastest,
it boosted itself 312.7 Mhz to a high of 4624 Mhz!

So for anybody with a 3900X or 3950X, this is a no brainer tweak.

PS To anyone concerned, i think the feeling is finally back in my toes after that arctic blast.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





EDIT: heres results with preferred cores disabled.









Interestingly, the max temp here was 42C, were as with the fastest cores being used its 52C.
However core usage is all over the place.

This show how cooling is so important for max performance with 3900X.

Memory is solid too at 3733 cl15





Test System Specifications:

Ryzen 9 3900X
NZXT X62 AIO
ASRock X570 Taichi (BIOS 2.50, AGESA 1.0.0.4В)
G.Skill Trident Z Royal Silver DDR4-3600 C16 dual-channel (@ 3733 CL15)
Windows 10 64-bit 1903
AMD Chipset Driver 1.9.27.1033


----------



## GoldenX (Nov 16, 2019)

1.0.0.4 is out for MSI B350 boards.


----------



## potato580+ (Nov 16, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> 1.0.0.4 is out for MSI B350 boards.


its stable? i wont ended mess my current bios, since is good & dont have any single issue


----------



## biffzinker (Nov 16, 2019)

potato580+ said:


> its stable?


No trouble with my B450 Tomahawk. The MSI B350 board I use to have was passed on to a family member with the 2600X. Otherwise I would have flashed, and tried it out.


----------



## GoldenX (Nov 16, 2019)

So far, perfect.


----------



## Kursah (Nov 16, 2019)

Asus is taking longer on this one, at least for my Strix x370-f Gaming. Hoping that means something good or big is coming rather than they're moving on. I know that time is coming too but I'd like to see what 1.0.0.4 is all about.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 16, 2019)

by b450-i strix has a BIOS update but they dont specify if its 1.0.0.4 or not :/

edit: its not, asus are behind


----------



## HTC (Nov 16, 2019)

X370 TaiChi is still with Combo-AM4 1.0.0.3 ABB (BIOS 5.80).

Not even made it to ABBA yet, let along 1.0.0.4


----------



## robot zombie (Nov 16, 2019)

Kursah said:


> Asus is taking longer on this one, at least for my Strix x370-f Gaming. Hoping that means something good or big is coming rather than they're moving on. I know that time is coming too but I'd like to see what 1.0.0.4 is all about.


I'm not too worried about it. They've been late on updates with the X370-F a few times before... along with some other boards. I remember when people were waiting for months after nearly everyone else had switched! And then, at the same time, I think it was always the Prime that was completely up-to-date, while my X370-F and other people's Crosshairs were literally two updates behind it >.<

ASUS works in mysterious ways, but they do seem to get around to it eventually. One thing I can say about that, thier BIOS updates are at least stable. I've been through all of them in the past year and a half... two? And not one of them has behaved outside of expectation. So there's that 

1.0.0.4., I'm just kinda eh about. ABBA isn't bad at all, I can live with it pretty easily. But more than that, I feel like I've been through this whole "big AMD-fix-each-and-erry-ting BIOS update" thingy lijke 4 times since I built my first Ryzen machine and none of them have been anywhere near the breakthrough we all thought they'd be in the several months leading up. The grass is always greener on the other side of the vendor downloads page...

Like, I'm sure it's great to have and I'll grab it when it comes around, but I'm not watching it for updates anymore.


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## AlienIsGOD (Nov 17, 2019)

updated to the 1.0.0.4 B bios for my aorus elite  no time to test anything yet tho. I was on a bios 2 versions newer then agesa 0.7.2. So it was overdue to get a updated version


----------



## robot zombie (Nov 18, 2019)

I happened to peep HWiNFO64 today to find that my 3900x is boosting to 4.6 MHz after all. 6 cores have been all the way up there at some point. Sometimes 4.65! Okay... so that could just be silly little peaks. Who knows when those cores actually did that. But hey... it still counts, right?  




I've also noticed the rest peak out at 4.375 MHz. I'm betting that would be roughly the max all-core for one of these.


----------



## Wickedt (Nov 18, 2019)

robot zombie said:


> I happened to peep HWiNFO64 today to find that my 3900x is boosting to 4.6 MHz after all. 6 cores have been all the way up there at some point. Sometimes 4.65! Okay... so that could just be silly little peaks. Who knows when those cores actually did that. But hey... it still counts, right?
> View attachment 136849
> 
> I've also noticed the rest peak out at 4.375 MHz. I'm betting that would be roughly the max all-core for one of these.




That's  a who the @*$# knows scenario. Mine went to 3 cores, one at 4625, so your looking good, the point of the power plan is to use the cores that are fastest for certain things, like gaming were you really only need 1 core in most games. What i saw in testing was higher overall core usage (preferred) in most benchmarks, which to me is a win.


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## biffzinker (Nov 18, 2019)

robot zombie said:


> I happened to peep HWiNFO64 today to find that my 3900x is boosting to 4.6 MHz after all. 6 cores have been all the way up there at some point. Sometimes 4.65! Okay... so that could just be silly little peaks. Who knows when those cores actually did that. But hey... it still counts, right?
> View attachment 136849
> 
> I've also noticed the rest peak out at 4.375 MHz. I'm betting that would be roughly the max all-core for one of these.


Should get the latest version, it reports the actual clockspeed, PROCHOT, and something else next the PROCHOT.

Seems to have the same monitoring parameters as Ryzen Master minus the graphs, and overclocking adjustments.


----------



## GoldenX (Nov 18, 2019)

RTSS can graph clockspeed, it's quite nice, and it seems to use the same sensors as Ryzen Master.


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## Nordic (Nov 20, 2019)

The latest bios for my Asrock X570M Pro4, AGESA Combo-AM4 1.0.0.4 Patch B, fixed a problem I have been having. I have 3600mhz Cas 18 memory that I could not run at 3600mhz or higher no matter what. It would not post at all the speed it was rated for. I had settled to run the ram at 3533mhz cas 16 because I found that had the best performance even though I could lower the timings further.

Turns out with the latest bios I can now run 3600mhz stable. Yay.

I think I remember @EarthDog and @TheLostSwede trying to help me figure out my memory situation back then. Time solves all problems.

It is both exciting and annoying that I now need to find optimal timings again.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 20, 2019)

Nordic said:


> The latest bios for my Asrock X570M Pro4, AGESA Combo-AM4 1.0.0.4 Patch B, fixed a problem I have been having. I have 3600mhz Cas 18 memory that I could not run at 3600mhz or higher no matter what. It would not post at all the speed it was rated for. I had settled to run the ram at 3533mhz cas 16 because I found that had the best performance even though I could lower the timings further.
> 
> Turns out with the latest bios I can now run 3600mhz stable. Yay.
> 
> ...


It goes to show that a lot of the Ryzen 3000 issues are still UEFI related. It also seems to vary a lot between the different board makers.
I've been quite impressed with Gigabyte this time around, as they've done a really good job in getting out new UEFI releases and making sure things work as they should.
On the other hand, my GA-Z170N in my NAS has a horrible UEFI that has some issues they never bothered fixing...


----------



## GoldenX (Nov 20, 2019)

Motherboards are random these days.
It took the nerf after Ryzen 3000 on mine to fix suspend.
Now reading this, I should try to get 3400MHz again on the sticks.


----------



## NoJuan999 (Nov 20, 2019)

AMD and motherboard makers are definitely still tweaking AGESA and BIOS settings.
My Asus ROG Strix B450-F and Ryzen 2600 worked best with BIOS 1201(AGESA 1.0.0.6).
I am currently running an Asus ROG Strix X470-F with a 3700x with a BIOS with AGESA 1.0.0.3ABBA and it is decent (my 3600 RAM can run at 3733) but I'm sure there will be BIOS updates that will improve overall compatibility and performance coming in the future.


----------



## ToxicTears (Nov 20, 2019)

HTC said:


> X370 TaiChi is still with Combo-AM4 1.0.0.3 ABB (BIOS 5.80).
> 
> Not even made it to ABBA yet, let along 1.0.0.4


1004B for X370 taichi - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ooZ80yPV0F2uGUgsB2PZi95QA6Q70rx9/view?usp=sharing


----------



## HTC (Nov 20, 2019)

ToxicTears said:


> 1004B for X370 taichi - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ooZ80yPV0F2uGUgsB2PZi95QA6Q70rx9/view?usp=sharing



I only download BIOS files from the manufacturer's site.

Thanks, anyway.


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## ToxicTears (Nov 20, 2019)

HTC said:


> I only download BIOS files from the manufacturer's site.
> 
> Thanks, anyway.


It is a pity. I've tried some Asrock beta bios and were better than the final release. Now I also use 1004B beta on my X470 Taichi and without any problems. Quite the contrary. 3700X has boot correctly, I have RAM on 3600 CL14, boot sequence works correctly and quickly.


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## TheLostSwede (Nov 20, 2019)

On the subject of tweaking, Gigabyte will be adding more adjustable options in their UEFI soon, but these features are already enabled by default, just not visible to the user.


----------



## HTC (Nov 20, 2019)

ToxicTears said:


> It is a pity. I've tried some Asrock beta bios and were better than the final release. Now I also use 1004B beta on my *X470 Taichi* and without any problems. Quite the contrary. 3700X has boot correctly, I have RAM on 3600 CL14, boot sequence works correctly and quickly.



X470????? I'm referring to X370.

Still, i'm in no real rush since i don't even own a Ryzen 3000 CPU, yet.


----------



## ToxicTears (Nov 20, 2019)

HTC said:


> X470????? I'm referring to X370.
> 
> Still, i'm in no real rush since i don't even own a Ryzen 3000 CPU, yet.


and that's why I shared bios for x370  and if you don't have Ryzen 3000, you don't even need a bios. It's practically not for you.


----------



## AlienIsGOD (Nov 20, 2019)

I've noticed faster boot times on 1.0.0.4 B just like notes on aorus elite website mentioned. Really glad I updated


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## Nordic (Nov 22, 2019)

With the latest bios update, asrock lowered the maximum PPT, TDC, and EDC values for the motherboard. I am assuming these values are more in line with what the motherboard is capable of. It used to have EDC at a max of 500A but now it is 170A. I easily max out all three values at AMD stock settings, and I come close with the motherboard settings.

Has anyone else noticed any differences?


----------



## biffzinker (Nov 22, 2019)

@Nordic
I've noticed my 3600 has went from 3,975 MHz before 1.0.0.4 to 3,900/25MHz after the update during a AIDA64 stress test on the FPUs.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 22, 2019)

Nordic said:


> With the latest bios update, asrock lowered the maximum PPT, TDC, and EDC values for the motherboard. I am assuming these values are more in line with what the motherboard is capable of. It used to have EDC at a max of 500A but now it is 170A. I easily max out all three values at AMD stock settings, and I come close with the motherboard settings.
> 
> Has anyone else noticed any differences?


Nope, looks the same as always to me. Looks like what they did, is set PBO as a default off, rather  than a default on. It's been the same for me with certain UEFI releases. Auto is now default off, whereas it has been default on and off depending on the release.
Seem like it's still quite high on your board.


----------



## Nordic (Nov 22, 2019)

Your values are the default settings. I have increased mine to the motherboards limits. The observation I am highlighting is that the motherboards limits have dramatically gone down with the new bios.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 22, 2019)

Nordic said:


> Your values are the default settings. I have increased mine to the motherboards limits. The observation I am highlighting is that the motherboards limits have dramatically gone down with the new bios.


And if you enable PBO?


----------



## Wickedt (Nov 22, 2019)

This is what OC defaults to on my ASRock Taichi 570, PBO on auto i believe.


----------



## Papahyooie (Nov 22, 2019)

Hey guys! I have a 2600, and I have been reading about these power plans. Can't seem to get a straight answer. Seems they're doing stuff and things with CPPC, which from my understanding, 2600 doesn't have (?).

I've basically just stuck my 2600 in the board (Asus B350-F) and rolled on. Are these improvements applicable to a 2600? Or just Zen2? If not, are there any improvements to be made to a 2600? Seems to work great out of the box, haven't updated BIOS or anything. But if there are any improvements to be made, whether BIOS or Windows/Power Plan, etc, and I can eek out a tiny bit more performance, I'd be willing to do so.


----------



## GoldenX (Nov 22, 2019)

It's just Zen2.
But newer BIOS versions may/should give you some better turbo frequencies.


----------



## HTC (Nov 22, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> It's just Zen2.
> But newer BIOS versions may/should give you some better turbo frequencies.



And faster boot times, no?


----------



## GoldenX (Nov 22, 2019)

Yep, slightly faster boot times too.


----------



## robot zombie (Nov 22, 2019)

Papahyooie said:


> Hey guys! I have a 2600, and I have been reading about these power plans. Can't seem to get a straight answer. Seems they're doing stuff and things with CPPC, which from my understanding, 2600 doesn't have (?).
> 
> I've basically just stuck my 2600 in the board (Asus B350-F) and rolled on. Are these improvements applicable to a 2600? Or just Zen2? If not, are there any improvements to be made to a 2600? Seems to work great out of the box, haven't updated BIOS or anything. But if there are any improvements to be made, whether BIOS or Windows/Power Plan, etc, and I can eek out a tiny bit more performance, I'd be willing to do so.


Not much you can do outside of stuff you'd do for any new CPU. Not nearly as much to how that chip boosts. Vanilla 2600s are pretty good overclockers though! I may have gotten lucky but mine would run 4ghz all core at like 1.2v... it's a decent boost and runs pretty cool and efficient. Pretty much any of them should do an OC like that easily.


----------



## biffzinker (Nov 22, 2019)

I was looking at the memory timings in AIDA64 then I noticed it was reporting ECC was supported but currently disabled. So I was wondering if the B450 Tomahawk supports ECC.

Apparently you can use ECC UDIMMS with the Tomahawk? Or is that a no going by the text in the parentheses?


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## Nordic (Nov 23, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> And if you enable PBO?


That is with PBO enabled. The values used to be higher. Now these are the values.


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## TheLostSwede (Nov 23, 2019)

Nordic said:


> That is with PBO enabled. The values used to be higher. Now these are the values.


If that's with PBO enabled, then they're Indeed very low. Maybe they discovered the power regulation wasn't up to the task?



biffzinker said:


> I was looking at the memory timings in AIDA64 then I noticed it was reporting ECC was supported but currently disabled. So I was wondering if the B450 Tomahawk supports ECC.
> 
> Apparently you can use ECC UDIMMS with the Tomahawk? Or is that a no going by the text in the parentheses?
> 
> View attachment 137329


As it says, you can use ECC memory, but MSI didn't implement the actual ECC support, so it won't do anything.


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## Nordic (Nov 23, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> If that's with PBO enabled, then they're Indeed very low. Maybe they discovered the power regulation wasn't up to the task?


Exactly my thoughts. This is only since the latest bios. This motherboard is really not that great. It functions at least.


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## TheLostSwede (Nov 23, 2019)

Nordic said:


> Exactly my thoughts. This is only since the latest bios. This motherboard is really not that great. It functions at least.


It's really quite bizarre that no-one has made a half decent mATX board with the X570 chipset, especially as Asus made both a mITX and mDTX board, the latter being a form factor that hasn't been around for years.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 23, 2019)

ngl, this is pretty rad. That's upwards of 25% improvement in boot time over 1.0.0.3AB/ABBA, and pretty much on par with Intel boot times. I think mine with the 3700X has about the same boot time as my friend's with the same board, 2600, and no NVMe to bog it down.





The effect is more pronounced for me because I have an FE card that runs at 100% fan speed until POST completes. Yeah...now I don't hear it screaming unless the board is saving BIOS settings changes I made.



TheLostSwede said:


> It's really quite bizarre that no-one has made a half decent mATX board with the X570 chipset, especially as Asus made both a mITX and mDTX board, the latter being a form factor that hasn't been around for years.



I guess it's them being used to Intel for so long. It's only been a couple of years since the northbridge moved off the board for AMD and cleared up space for other things. Even on the Intel side, mATX is a bit of a dying breed quality-wise. The Gene is the sole exception, obviously, but at least the Gene's lineage is a small motivator for Asus to keep the line going; we don't have that kind of history.

I can understand the Impact, because built-up ITX power delivery and thinking vertically with daughterboards is Asus' strong suit (M6 Impact and Z87I-Deluxe come to mind). No recent Impacts past Z97 so maybe they had to scratch the itch   Maybe vendors are realizing that the only way to keep selling mATX is to make them cheap, because a premium board will just push most people to ATX.


----------



## biffzinker (Nov 23, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> ngl, this is pretty rad. That's upwards of 25% improvement in boot time over 1.0.0.3AB/ABBA, and pretty much on par with Intel boot times. I think mine with the 3700X has about the same boot time as my friend's with the same board, 2600, and no NVMe to bog it down.





SMU v46.54.0



tabascosauz said:


> Maybe vendors are realizing that the only way to keep selling mATX is to make them cheap, because a premium board will just push most people to ATX.


Would of preferred mATX but instead ended up with ATX.


----------



## Nordic (Nov 23, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> It's really quite bizarre that no-one has made a half decent mATX board with the X570 chipset, especially as Asus made both a mITX and mDTX board, the latter being a form factor that hasn't been around for years.


I am tempted to switch to the good itx board and maybe use this motherboard elsewhere like @EarthDog suggested.

My current case can't do ATX and I am not inclined to switch back to ATX.


----------



## Calmmo (Nov 24, 2019)

3 days running now the 3900x - had one random restart for no apparent reason yesterday, but  today has been fine so far.
Finally had some time to *actually* do some basic memory tuning and ran a few benches. Havent tried 1900 IF yet, but 1867 will do for now.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 24, 2019)

Calmmo said:


> 3 days running now the 3900x - had one random restart for no apparent reason yesterday, but  today has been fine so far.
> Finally had some time to *actually* do some basic memory tuning and ran a few benches. Havent tried 1900 IF yet, but 1867 will do for now.
> 
> View attachment 137469 View attachment 137470 View attachment 137471 View attachment 137473
> ...


Considering where you're at, the extra 33MHz should be a breeze.


----------



## mstenholm (Nov 24, 2019)

Calmmo said:


> 3 days running now the 3900x - had one random restart for no apparent reason yesterday, but  today has been fine so far.
> Finally had some time to *actually* do some basic memory tuning and ran a few benches. Havent tried 1900 IF yet, but 1867 will do for now.
> 
> View attachment 137469 View attachment 137470 View attachment 137471 View attachment 137473
> ...


I ought to copy your tests....tomorrow maybe. Do you have Ryzen Master/PBO installed and running?


----------



## GoldenX (Nov 24, 2019)

Anything higher is limited by the CPU.


----------



## jesdals (Nov 25, 2019)

New Chipset drivers from AMD - seeing som faster boot times


----------



## biffzinker (Nov 25, 2019)

https://www.amd.com/en/support/chipsets/amd-socket-am4/x570
		

Picked the X570 chipset for a direct link but the driver still applies to the earlier chipsets.

```
Driver Details:

Release Date
11/25/2019

Revision Number
1.11.22.0454

Supports:

Windows® 7/10 for
        2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor
        7th-Gen AMD A-Series Processors
        AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor
        AMD X470 Chipset
        AMD X370 Chipset
        AMD B450 Chipset
        AMD B350 Chipset
        AMD A320 Chipset
Windows® 10 only for
        3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ Processors
        3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor
        2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ Processor
        AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ Processor
        AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor with Radeon™ Vega Graphics
        AMD Ryzen™ Mobile Processor with Radeon™ Vega Graphics
        AMD X399 Chipset
        AMD X570 Chipset
        AMD TRX40 Chipset

Package Includes:

        AMD Chipset Drivers
        AMD Ryzen™ Power Plans (required for UEFI CPPC2 in Windows® 10 May 2019 Update)
```


----------



## Calmmo (Nov 25, 2019)

New chipset, new benchscores!


----------



## PerfectWave (Nov 25, 2019)

did u improve your bench? cos i guess the new driver are because of new tr4 mobo


----------



## AlienIsGOD (Nov 25, 2019)

grabbed the chipset drivers  also on the latest BIOS for my board (F50a).


----------



## Calmmo (Nov 25, 2019)

PerfectWave said:


> did u improve your bench? cos i guess the new driver are because of new tr4 mobo


yup small increase in all of them


----------



## GoldenX (Nov 26, 2019)

Was using a 3850MHz@1.35v OC, decided to test at the stock's 1.2v, 3750MHz. Fuck it, let's go green.


----------



## robot zombie (Nov 26, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> Was using a 3850MHz@1.35v OC, decided to test at the stock's 1.2v, 3750MHz. Fuck it, let's go green.


Haha, no shit?  Another .15v for 100mhz seems pretty steep!

That's actually one thing I like about Zen and Zen+ (dunno with Zen 2 yet cuz I haven't gotten my hands on more than one.) They're generally not *amazing* overclockers, but in that sweet spot, the efficiency goes way up and the amount of performance you leave on the table is peanuts. There just is no need or reason to make them run super-hot and get deep into cooling. Also means the vanilla ones don't really need much of a mobo to prop them up. 

I suppose you could look at it two ways. They don't have that 'limitless' nature to them where they can just keep sucking up watts and vomiting clocks. But for what they're meant to do, they don't really ask for much to shine and when they do, something just isn't set up right. I think it's probably a letdown to some people that you're not really *supposed* to push Ryzen CPU's, but to me it's like, what if you just don't need to?

Still seems that way. TBF I'm running a 3900X, but a fairly middling, single-fan tower cooler is getting the job done. Not really seeing it go over 100W often. But it scores over 7000 on CB, so I mean... for a 12-core chip to generally run under 100w but still have that ability is nice. As quirky as their boost system has always been, it is a nice compliment to what I might call their easygoing silicon. It likes to just chug along, sipping steady power.

It's pretty much a matter of bio-diesel or massive gas engine.

I've never had an Intel system myself, but I've built a good bit of them and one thing I always hated about working with the midrange and high-end SKUs was how they were just a *bitch* to cool if you wanted to really tap into them. I like silence AND performance in my builds (even if they're not MY builds.) So having a CPU that almost seems to want to run on the least power you can feed it to hit decent clocks almost makes more sense than an Intel power-hog. It almost doesn't matter if we're talking budget or high-end. Ryzen just is more manageable when it comes to tapping into the performance available without destroying 'power budget' as a concept.

Cruel irony that AMD's GPUs are the total opposite. Maybe they'll start to work that out one day.


----------



## Calmmo (Nov 26, 2019)

So i've had 3 reboots @ 1867 , 2 in regular OS use and 1 testing out Outer Worlds.
Cant say i'm certain if it's memory or IF tho bumping ram voltage by 10mv didn't help since I got another reboot after that (no memtest errors in 2 1hr tests)
I'm assuming it's IF. Could upping SoC voltage a little have any impact on IF stability? running 1.1 atm
Need to figure out a way to stabilize system run before going into tightening timings like tct Trfc and the like
(i'm, running a pcie4 nvme mp600 also)

trying 1.125 for now see if it works out i guess


----------



## okidna (Nov 26, 2019)

1.0.0.4 B is out for Strix X470-F : https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-STRIX-X470-F-GAMING/HelpDesk_BIOS/


----------



## Wickedt (Dec 1, 2019)

What voltage is your ram at? I had same type of issues till i raised dram voltage to 1.46


----------



## Mussels (Dec 1, 2019)

My STRIX B450-I still doesnt have it


----------



## Lorec (Dec 4, 2019)

So I finally boot up my 3950x.
I have a vanilla C8H (0506 bios) mobo, and first what struck me was huge core voltage



I read through all posts from june to now in this thread and it seems its normal thing...
I have a custom loop, temps get kinda jumpy even in idle.
Aside from that had no problem with ram, running smoothly the DOCP profile etc.

Latest 1105 update states I cant downgrade from it, which is a bit scary.
I checked around internet and 0901 update (the one prior ABBA) seems worth trying (especially I can revert if needed).
There were PCH fan curve improvements etc...
Unless it wouldnt change much that is.

My goal is to get some manageable voltages here...
Any thoughts?


----------



## TheLostSwede (Dec 4, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> Anything higher is limited by the CPU.


You can't even lower the TRC? As that's quite high. What about the TRFC?



Calmmo said:


> So i've had 3 reboots @ 1867 , 2 in regular OS use and 1 testing out Outer Worlds.
> Cant say i'm certain if it's memory or IF tho bumping ram voltage by 10mv didn't help since I got another reboot after that (no memtest errors in 2 1hr tests)
> I'm assuming it's IF. Could upping SoC voltage a little have any impact on IF stability? running 1.1 atm
> Need to figure out a way to stabilize system run before going into tightening timings like tct Trfc and the like
> ...


Try increasing the TRFC, as if it's too tight, at least in my experience, you get the random reboots. Your TRFC timings are quite tight already.
Check with the DRAM calculator to see what it suggests.



Lorec said:


> So I finally boot up my 3950x.
> I have a vanilla C8H (0506 bios) mobo, and first what struck me was huge core voltage
> View attachment 138411
> I read through all posts from june to now in this thread and it seems its normal thing...
> ...


That's normal. It'll hit 1.5V at times. This has been discussed at length all over the interweb...
Temps are jumpy when going from idle to any kind of load.
You really want AGESA 1.0.0.4 B for that chip.


----------



## GoldenX (Dec 4, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> You can't even lower the TRC? As that's quite high. What about the TRFC?


These sticks seem to be low quality B-die, so I can't complain much.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Dec 4, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> These sticks seem to be low quality B-die, so I can't complain much.


Just saying, those are two settings that you might be able to tweak a bit.


----------



## Wickedt (Dec 4, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> These sticks seem to be low quality B-die, so I can't complain much.



Did you import the rams settings from Taiphoon burner? I had some of those problems myself, i imported the settings into Ryzen dram calculator and poof, worked beautifully.


----------



## GoldenX (Dec 4, 2019)

Yes, in manual with the html export it suggests lower values that don't seem to be stable at all (can't even post), so I'm using the "tRFC calculator" to find a lazy solution.


----------



## robot zombie (Dec 4, 2019)

Lorec said:


> So I finally boot up my 3950x.
> I have a vanilla C8H (0506 bios) mobo, and first what struck me was huge core voltage
> View attachment 138411
> I read through all posts from june to now in this thread and it seems its normal thing...
> ...


Easier said than done. It's more complex than this, but generally speaking, voltage, total power, temperature, utilization... all of the main ones, are locked-in on sort of a set curve. Or at least, that's the ultimate behavior. My experience is that any means you can use to try to lower voltage will also decrease boosts. Say your temperature is low, but your usage is high, but you've manually set a voltage offset. XFR and PBO don't acknowledge that you just want to lower the voltage. It sees the temp/util and wants to boost higher, but it can't because the voltage available isn't in-line with what it wants for those higher clocks. It wants what it wants to hit a given clock. Same thing happens if you go into your PBO settings and try to change the power limit. All you're doing by cutting voltage is nipping the upper straps off of the boost curve. It seems to slide all of the parameters back so that it won't boost as high as it would've otherwise. Basically, if all of the conditions aren't met, including voltage from the mobo, it absolutely will not hit its max frequency for any load. It'll always be lower in step with the voltage drop.

It's kind of crazy, how tight the power curve is. We're seeing different numbers because of mobo manufactures doing different things with their configs, but under the hood, the behavior from chip to chip is astonishingly uniform. Like, I could get another 3900x, drop it in this board, and I'm betting it'll run the same voltages, same clocks, same wattage. There really just is no wiggle to it. What it pulls out for you is pretty much all there is.

The general consensus is that it doesn't hurt anything. For overclocks, I think the common limit is 1.35-1.4v, or at least that's what I go by when I'm not okay with cooking a chip. But that's constant voltage. Ryzen's boost doesn't sustain it constantly. I'm betting it looks like it's flat-lining at 1.4-1.5 volts all of the time because the spikes and dips are too brief and slip between polling. But it's certainly not the same as running constant voltage. Guarantee you if you take that 3950x and pump 1.5v volts to it while putting it under load, the temperatures will be astronomically higher than it boosting on its own and hitting that same voltage.

The temperatures are kind of a similar thing. It's got those little spikes even under light loads... seems that when you give a Ryzen some meager tasks to much on, it likes to max the voltage out... probably because the current is so low. But again, if your cooling is up for it, not a problem. Worst case is that it stops boosting or even throttles down. But on the flipside, you might not even see much better temperatures with better cooling. If it had headroom outside of temperature, it might just eat up a good chunk of any temperature headroom you give it.. It's pretty much gonna keep going until it hits one of a few limits. You have the clock speed limit (they won't automatically run over advertised boost clocks.) And then you have wattage/current and temperature. Voltage is more of a soft limit. It has a max of 1.5, but that 1.5 doesn't limit clock speed... like it doesn't stop going higher because it wants the full 1.5. It does, however, seem to have a minimum, per a given clock speed and load. Again, to do certain clocks under certain loads, it requires that voltage. Mobo manufacturers could do better on their end, but from what I've seen the only ones could really change it much are AMD themselves. But it seems they've decided this is the optimal behavior, because they all do it 

Nah, I think in your case a BIOS update might help. But the behavior you're describing is pretty typical. It's always gonna want those high voltages and little spikes. Over time I'm sure AMD will refine it and smooth it out so that maybe it doesn't spike so much and permits lower voltages... but it's not exactly a malfunction. Just really stiff rules on their end. They decide if it's a problem or not on their end. Is what it is... I feel a little conflicted, myself... but then I kinda think who am I to think I know better than AMD how their chips should run. I'm sure there are some issues with windows power management and just... all sorts of hiccups getting everything in this admittedly pretty complex boosting system to communicate and respond as intended. They've always liked to overvolt their stuff out of the box, but this is probably the first time you couldn't undervolt an AMD product that runs hot and high. There's gotta be a reason for that.

I'd say they're actually pretty good at self-regulating. They're nothing if not consistent, and while behavior takes some getting used to, I don't see one killing itself from it. It seems like their main concern is current and I assume there's a good reason for that. I've seen the voltage dip under heavy threaded workloads, when the current was the highest I've seen it. I think below a certain voltage, it's probably the combination of high current AND high voltage that kills many a CPU. You look at your voltage and see 1.5 and think gee, that's high! But when you look at your total wattage it could be like... 48. Which also means the current is very low. Hence why on the flipside, as current starts getting legitimately high, voltage will start to dip a little... more and more if the load keeps increasing. So it seems to me there is a voltage where even a small amount of current would be enough to fry a Ryzen, but 1.5v isn't it. I wish we all knew for sure, but it seems that IT at least knows how much of each it can take and will take steps to never hit a point of damage/degradation. I trust AMD has put in the footwork to figure out what voltage and current levels show signs of degradation and with their long-gathered knowledge of how CPUs behave found a safe line to draw for their boost system.

They really are a different beast, though. We're talking about a little mobile/SoC arch turned desktop powerhouse, here. All of the parameters and behavior are going to be different from what we're all used to with Intel, who's been rehashing the same chip for years. I think they're probably a lot more finicky to get the performance out of than those older, more refined architectures. Just a lot more going on with em, across the board.

And just so we're clear, that's me saying I don't really know what's going on with them but yes it is normal and no there's not much to be done


----------



## biffzinker (Dec 4, 2019)

robot zombie said:


> And just so we're clear, that's me saying I don't really know what's going on with them but yes it is normal and no there's not much to be done


I tried a -25mv offset, didn't bother the boost behaviour it was still hitting up to 4.2 GHz but when I tried a -100mv offset it didn't work out. Benchmark scores dropped, and the single core was only 4.150 GHz barely touched 4.2.


----------



## Lorec (Dec 4, 2019)

robot zombie said:


> Spoiler:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gee whizz that was an extensive response.
Thanks!
I couldnt agree more actually.
AMD is doing something new so obviously we would be surprised with the actual outcome.
I mean its time to change habits right? 
Maybe for me coming from r5 2600 to r9 3950x was just too much of a shock there I guess


----------



## mstenholm (Dec 4, 2019)

Lorec said:


> Gee whizz that was an extensive response.
> Thanks!
> I couldnt agree more actually.
> AMD is doing something new so obviously we would be surprised with the actual outcome.
> ...


@Lorec Congratulation, you beat me to it with mouth I think. If you don't want to see the high voltage then load it big time with WCG . I can't wait to see some numbers (all core speed and temperature).


----------



## Lorec (Dec 4, 2019)

mstenholm said:


> Congratulation, you beat me to it with mouth I think. If you don't want to see the high voltage then load it big time with WCG . I can't wait to see some numbers (all core speed and temperature).


Sure, once I update everything I will get to testing WCG wise. Looking forward to seeing how it fares.
Not like I could do better than Your two 2700x pushing some serious PPDs  
...wait You got 3900x recently  aiming for 3950x as well? @mstenholm


----------



## mstenholm (Dec 4, 2019)

Lorec said:


> Sure, once I update everything I will get to testing WCG wise. Looking forward to seeing how it fares.
> Not like I could do better than Your two 2700x pushing some serious PPDs
> ...wait You got 3900x recently  *aiming for 3950x as well*? @mstenholm


Sure but running my 3900x at 4.3 MHz all cores is not bad either. Since you have custom WC and winter is nearing then try the same if you intent to run it flat out.


----------



## springs113 (Dec 4, 2019)

Well to ad my .02.  I've got several ryzen systems floating around,  1950x with zenith motherboard,  2700x with a crosshair vii,  3700x with strix itx x570 motherboard,  3950x and an aorus xtreme and finally a zenith 2 with a 3960x on order.   So question away,  I'll respond to the best of my abilities.   Only trouble I really had was originally when the 1950x was launched where if I recall correctly installing ai-suite  would decrease my fps in games considerably.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Dec 4, 2019)

mstenholm said:


> Sure but running my 3900x at 4.3 MHz all cores is not bad either. Since you have custom WC and winter is nearing then try the same if you intent to run it flat out.


That's an impressive underclock


----------



## mstenholm (Dec 4, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> That's an impressive underclock


I like to keep it under 75 C....one day when I fell bold I try 4.4 MHz


----------



## Calmmo (Dec 5, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Try increasing the TRFC, as if it's too tight, at least in my experience, you get the random reboots. Your TRFC timings are quite tight already.
> Check with the DRAM calculator to see what it suggests.



I ended up with soc 1.112 (or was it 18.. not sure lol) fixing all issues.
Then started dropping ram voltage down to 1.37 which led to no runtime issues but I was getting coldboot resets, loading up the profile and saving solved it.. but I had to go up to 1.39 eventually to eliminate those (so far). I kinda want to try something else just in case without dropping 48/288 rct/trfc as getting back to that 1.37 feels.. enticing.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Dec 5, 2019)

Calmmo said:


> I ended up with soc 1.112 (or was it 18.. not sure lol) fixing all issues.
> Then started dropping ram voltage down to 1.37 which led to no runtime issues but I was getting coldboot resets, loading up the profile and saving solved it.. but I had to go up to 1.39 eventually to eliminate those (so far). I kinda want to try something else just in case without dropping 48/288 rct/trfc as getting back to that 1.37 feels.. enticing.


I have my RAM at 1.38V, but that's for four modules that are overclocked with tightened timings...
Your TRFC is very tight unless it's Samsung B-dies and that's one setting that seems to affect stability quite a bit, at least based on my experience.
I have not touched any other Voltages.


----------



## Calmmo (Dec 5, 2019)

Well I am running Quad Rank b-die memory which is quite demanding for the memory controller. If I just simply.. run 3600 IF/mem everything becomes much much easier to run at stock voltages.
The final issue was just cold boot being a 50%-50% success at 1.37. I ran memtest for 4h without any errors at 1.36 even.


----------



## GoldenX (Dec 5, 2019)

New beta BIOS on MSI.


----------



## Nordic (Dec 6, 2019)

So my PC has a problem. My monitor stops receiving a signal and the keyboard lights turn off. The computer is not connected to the network, so clearly it is not functioning. The fans and motherboard lights still are on. I have no blue screen codes. Windows events shows a kernel power failure. The motherboard isn't giving me any hints.

I am not losing power but the system is not working. I am suspecting motherboard, memory, or cpu.


----------



## biffzinker (Dec 6, 2019)

Nordic said:


> So my PC has a problem. My monitor stops receiving a signal and the keyboard lights turn off. The computer is not connected to the network, so clearly it is not functioning. The fans and motherboard lights still are on. I have no blue screen codes. Windows events shows a kernel power failure. The motherboard isn't giving me any hints.
> 
> I am not losing power but the system is not working. I am suspecting motherboard, memory, or cpu.


Are you overclocking with a fixed multiplier? I ran into a power management issue with sleep mode when the PC resumes from sleep in which I couldn't get the monitor to receive a signal. Putting the multiplier back to Auto solved the sleep issue. I haven't tried with the AGESA 1.0.0.4 update to see if the problem was fixed.


----------



## Nordic (Dec 6, 2019)

I am currently running default bios. I am on the latest AGESA.


----------



## Wickedt (Dec 6, 2019)

Try 1 stick of ram at a time to see if thats it, if not i would think motherboard, because monitor and keyboard are IO's (input output) relying on the motherboard to do that.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 6, 2019)

VR was overwhelming my second PC now that i have a rift S, so i looked into OCing it

Ryzen 1400, Can do 4.0Ghz at 1.5v, or 3.9Ghz at 1.42v
Currently 3.9Ghz with 2750Mhz on the ram, and far faster than the stock clocks - 55C max in burn tests, i think its happy


----------



## Calmmo (Dec 6, 2019)

Sooo.. I found out last night my GPU was stuck running at x8 pci-e , not sure for how long because 3dmark system info was still coming up with x16 in its report and had no reason over the last few days to go looking into anything pcie related.

GPUz was showing x8 yesterday and today however, and the 3d mark pcie bench was giving me x8 numbers. Switching between all possible pcie settings in bios yielded 0 results. After that I aaalmost went through with completely uninstalling everything and reseating gpu, running without sata/nvme etc etc.

However before doing all that I chose to try one last thing, I went into bios and tried stock/load up defaults. And what do you know, im running x16!
Figured it must have been IF 3733 at some point breaking up pcie speed somehow.

So I went back and slowly built back up all my basic settings in order to see where things break,
and after many restarts I was up to ram + loose timings 3733 ram + IF coupled.. aand still running x16 after every change.
Then I loaded up my entire old profile and I'm in the OS running x16 just fine.
Did a complete power discharge and booted up again after a while.. Still fine..

Moral of the story, umm, when in doubt... just do load up defaults??


----------



## GoldenX (Dec 6, 2019)

Flashed the latest BIOS on my B350. It said better RAM OC.
Almost managed 3533, in the past I couldn't even boot at that.


----------



## Wickedt (Dec 6, 2019)

Funny, because i am about to install the latest beta from ASRock, and its says it fixes pci-e compatibility, so maybe other motherboard vendors in the same boat after latest bios to 1.0.0.4b

Update:

So i decided to install the new Beta bios 2.56.
Seems to be major solid, and also my performance went up.

I saw 4.625 on core 0 just booting up, which ive never seen, and then 2 cores at 4.6 Ghz after running Cinebench 20 multicore.

Seems there's more to this bios then just pci-e compatibility. I also noticed some changes in the actual structure of the bios layout itself.

For fun i ran the benchmarks at default bios (after resetting) and after tweaking the ram and bios settings.

What a difference!






Default



Tweaked


----------



## Mussels (Dec 7, 2019)

My x370 has 1.0.0.4 before my B450 does 

oh wells


----------



## potato580+ (Dec 7, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> Flashed the latest BIOS on my B350. It said better RAM OC.
> Almost managed 3533, in the past I couldn't even boot at that.


mines still good without update, 3200mhz stable, juat abit hot for the sticks, but since it still under warranty i dont much care to push the ram hehe


----------



## Mussels (Dec 7, 2019)

x370 does boot faster on the new BIOS, around 15 seconds from power on to logged in - not the fastest i've ever seen, but it does have a large delay before the monitor even powers on (unsure wtf its doing there)


----------



## Frick (Dec 8, 2019)

So my nephew gave me a 2600x, and it's really nice. Ripping DVDs (finally getting around to it) twice as fast as the 1200 while playing games. Good. But I am wondering how one sets CPU voltages, it seems just lowering it in BIOS doesn't really do anything. I assume it has to do with the boost things.

Also, what are good temps for these? AMD Master whatevs reports like 65C load, and that is with the fan in high mode. It might be seated poorly, but on the other hand I really don't care about temps anymore. As long as the system does not shut down I'm ok.


----------



## HTC (Dec 8, 2019)

Frick said:


> Also, what are good temps for these? AMD Master whatevs reports like 65C load, and that is with the fan in high mode. *It might be seated poorly, but on the other hand I really don't care about temps anymore. As long as the system does not shut down I'm ok.*


With a Threadripper, a moderator @ Anandtech had his AIO fail (NOT by leaking: 84ºC @ idle, in BIOS) which caused the CPU to throttle all the way down to 500 MHz: the PC didn't shutdown and no harm came to the CPU.

I suppose Ryzen would behave the same way since the chiplets are the same, with the exception of the IO dies.


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 9, 2019)

Was half-seriously flirting with the idea of getting a 3900X, so maybe this is the 3700X's idea of reminding me to stick with what I have:





Talk about feature-rich!


----------



## robot zombie (Dec 9, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Was half-seriously flirting with the idea of getting a 3900X, so maybe this is the 3700X's idea of reminding me to stick with what I have:
> 
> View attachment 138873
> 
> Talk about feature-rich!


Duuuudeee what's the OC on that? Does it also do 10ghz?


----------



## Lorec (Dec 9, 2019)

Been playing around since saturday. 
Havent achived 4.7 yet.
Closest was 4.616





Im running Windows 10 1909, PBO is on disabled, core boost enhancement at auto.
I run Ryzen Balanced Power plan.
if i tried to input ryzen mem calculator values for 3733 or 3800 it would fail.
this is on DOCP. 3600 16-16-16-36

below is a run when I set 3800 and chose a memory preset in bios for 4000mhz 4x8gb 1.5V Bdie
Cache and memory benchmark's north bridge clock stated: 984 MHz like it would trigger 2:1 or something. 
Something was fishy anyways since the Tcas was at 14... 



Anyhow PBO disabled gives me much nicer temps, hoping to hit that 4.7 soon though!

BTW
Cpu Z score


----------



## Wickedt (Dec 11, 2019)

Lorec said:


> Been playing around since saturday.
> Havent achived 4.7 yet.
> Closest was 4.616
> View attachment 138912View attachment 138913
> ...



That memory should be able to do 3733 fairly easy. Did you import your setting into Dram Calc with Thyphoon Burner? That was the only way i could get anything above 3600 when i got my Gskill Royal Silver (basically same ram, same timings), i just updated my Bios on X570 Taichi, and running at 3800 now flawlessly, even lower dram voltage.

Installed the new Bios update for Taichi X570 update says its 1.0.0.4 B (Bios 2.70)
Was able to run memory at 3800 with lower voltages then 3733, and while running Aida, noticed CPU was running at 46.25 multiplier, so 4625 MHz.









						3800 bios2 70 — Postimages
					






					postimg.cc
				




Happy with this update.


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 12, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> View attachment 137376
> SMU v46.54.0
> 
> Would of preferred mATX but instead ended up with ATX.



Shaved off more than three seconds going from 16GB of Samsung D-die to 32GB of Hynix D-die. I use the 100% fan speed period of the 2060S FE to judge boot time; the noise is all but eliminated with the new RAM. Not sure how long the boot time would be if it defaulted to JEDEC 2133; this kit defaults to its XMP out of the box.





It's pretty interesting how much impact RAM choice has on boot times. Maybe some kits don't need any training at all upon boot.

Corsair LP 3200/16, probably MFR: 35 seconds to infinity because it wouldn't boot

Trident Z 3200/16, D-die: 14 to 21 seconds

Trident Z RGB 3600/working on timings, DJR: ~10 seconds


----------



## Lorec (Dec 12, 2019)

Wickedt said:


> That memory should be able to do 3733 fairly easy. Did you import your setting into Dram Calc with Thyphoon Burner? That was the only way i could get anything above 3600 when i got my Gskill Royal Silver (basically same ram, same timings), i just updated my Bios on X570 Taichi, and running at 3800 now flawlessly, even lower dram voltage.
> 
> Installed the new Bios update for Taichi X570 update says its 1.0.0.4 B (Bios 2.70)
> Was able to run memory at 3800 with lower voltages then 3733, and while running Aida, noticed CPU was running at 46.25 multiplier, so 4625 MHz.
> ...


Ive tried 3800 safe and fast, 3733 safe and fast. All four didnt boot.
You saying its because I eyeballed the input? 
...I mean I did have couple pints while I tinkered with it indeed 
Anyhow, export html from typhoon and import html in dram calc! 
I shall try it tonight, thanks


----------



## Darmok N Jalad (Dec 12, 2019)

Well, I recently picked up a 2700X when Microcenter was running the deal for $129. Got $30 off a motherboard too. I don’t know if I’ll mess much with OCing it—really just working on the fan curve on the Prism so it’s not so buzzy.


----------



## Wickedt (Dec 12, 2019)

Lorec said:


> Ive tried 3800 safe and fast, 3733 safe and fast. All four didnt boot.
> You saying its because I eyeballed the input?
> ...I mean I did have couple pints while I tinkered with it indeed
> Anyhow, export html from typhoon and import html in dram calc!
> I shall try it tonight, thanks



Made a huge difference for me, btw im having a couple as i type, so much spellchecking lol


----------



## Calmmo (Dec 12, 2019)

3600x+b450 tomahawk


----------



## Lorec (Dec 13, 2019)

Im like soooo confused right now.
I exported settings from typhoon to dram calc like @Wickedt  suggested and it was still no go.
...its friday, I had couple pints too
however id tweak dram calc numbers no go.
Then I run random memory preset for 3733 for 4x8gb and it did run infact



WTF so I was like ok so how about i change it to 3800 and fclk to 1900 and run again
...
well it was a no go.
but it was 3733 @ 14-15-15 so I was like HEY how about I change it to 16-16-16?
So I did...



...and it JUST WORKS
just like that.

Im not finished though, I want to shave off point by point off of those settings until I can get memory R/W/C over 60 border and hopefully lower the latency a bit.
I found great thread on overclockers forum that helped me too overclock.net c8h OC

EDIT:



Thats the lowest I can get with PBO and CPB on Auto.
If I try to go lower, shes not gonna boost as high so yeah.
still 16-16-16 gives me higher and more sustained boosts on prefered cores so yeah.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 13, 2019)

Finally back in the game

Just got a Ryzen 5 3600 which should be a decent upgrade from the 1700X i had


----------



## Wickedt (Dec 13, 2019)

Lorec said:


> Im like soooo confused right now.
> I exported settings from typhoon to dram calc like @Wickedt  suggested and it was still no go.
> ...its friday, I had couple pints too
> however id tweak dram calc numbers no go.
> ...



Showoff


----------



## potato580+ (Dec 18, 2019)

hey guys, so i decide to updating my bios, simple say which one is best? o searching my model apearing has several bios, should i just go with newest one?



and likewise what should i prepare before update, i wont broke my board, i just need stable bios, if theres no such thing, i will stay with factory bios, thx adv


----------



## NoJuan999 (Dec 18, 2019)

potato580+ said:


> hey guys, so i decide to updating my bios, simple say which one is best? o searching my model apearing has several bios, should i just go with newest one?
> View attachment 139744
> and likewise what should i prepare before update, i wont broke my board, i just need stable bios, if theres no such thing, i will stay with factory bios, thx adv


For your CPU on that MB, I would Strongly recommend this BIOS Version:


> Version - 7A34vAI
> Release Date - 2019-01-03
> File Size - 10.45 MB
> Description
> ...



Version 7A34vAJ is aimed at Bristol Ridge compatibility and 7A34vALQ (Beta version) is meant for Ryzen 3000 CPUs.
They will both still work with your CPU BUT they will not be as good with it as Version - 7A34vAI would.


----------



## boise49ers (Dec 18, 2019)

cadaveca said:


> Nope, which makes finding the right sticks a bit difficult. I can say, if you buy some G.SKill 3200 MHz C14 sticks, you should not have any problems. There are some kits ready for Ryzen from G.Skill already; at least, I have some they sent me, so I assume they will be in stores soon if not already.


You are still getting goodies sent to yuh? Do you still game with the old group we used to play BF with all the time? I quit BF after 4, but tried V for awhile. My Ryzen 3600 seems to like the G-skill I bought a lot. Bumped up the ram and still stable with zero crashes. Not even gonna bother with the CPU. I prefer stability over speed any day. Now I just need a new Graphics card. What card in the $300 range do you suggest Dave with my system specs. Was thinking about the up coming RX 5600 XT if it has 8gb of GDDR6???


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 18, 2019)

boise49ers said:


> You are still getting goodies sent to yuh? Do you still game with the old group we used to play BF with all the time? I quit BF after 4, but tried V for awhile. My Ryzen 3600 seems to like the G-skill I bought a lot. Bumped up the ram and still stable with zero crashes. Not even gonna bother with the CPU. I prefer stability over speed any day. Now I just need a new Graphics card. What card in the $300 range do you suggest Dave with my system specs. Was thinking about the up coming RX 5600 XT if it has 8gb of GDDR6???


For $300 you could do a RX 5700


----------



## potato580+ (Dec 19, 2019)

NoJuan999 said:


> For your CPU on that MB, I would Strongly recommend this BIOS Version:
> 
> 
> Version 7A34vAJ is aimed at Bristol Ridge compatibility and 7A34vALQ (Beta version) is meant for Ryzen 3000 CPUs.
> They will both still work with your CPU BUT they will not be as good with it as Version - 7A34vAI would.


oke will try updating tonight, anyway do ineed to backup old bios? or itsnt not n3ccesary to do so thx


----------



## NoJuan999 (Dec 19, 2019)

potato580+ said:


> oke will try updating tonight, anyway do ineed to backup old bios? or itsnt not n3ccesary to do so thx


There is no need to back up your old BIOS before updating.
I would advise you to set the BIOS to Optimized Defaults and save before you update though.
That ensures a clean update.

Also Unzip the BIOS file to a 8 GB or smaller USB drive formatted to FAT 16 or FAT32 and use M-Flash from within the BIOS to do the Update, that is the safest method.


----------



## potato580+ (Dec 19, 2019)

NoJuan999 said:


> There is no need to back up your old BIOS be fore updating.
> I would advise you to set the BIOS to Optimized Defaults and save before you update though.
> That ensures a clean update.
> 
> Also Unzip the BIOS file to a 8 GB or smaller USB drive formatted to FAT 16 or FAT32 and use M-Flash from within the BIOS to do the Update, that is the safest method.


ok thx for the tips, was abt do it after at home, dang i dont have smallsize, say sandisk/toshiba 32gb pendrive safe?


----------



## NoJuan999 (Dec 19, 2019)

That 32 GB flash drive should still work just make sure to format it as FAT32, I just know that an 8 GB or smaller drive tends to be what the MB manufacturers recommend.
I have a 2 GB dive and a 4 GB flash drive that I keep just for doing BIOS updates.

Read the section titled "Flash AMI UEFI BIOS by MFLASH" here:





						biosflash
					

As a world leading gaming brand, MSI is the most trusted name in gaming and eSports. We stand by our principles of breakthroughs in design, and roll out the amazing gaming gear like motherboards, graphics cards, laptops and desktops.




					www.msi.com


----------



## Kissamies (Dec 19, 2019)

NoJuan999 said:


> That 32 GB flash drive should still work just make sure to format it as FAT32, I just know that an 8 GB or smaller drive tends to be what the MB manufacturers recommend.
> I have a 2 GB dive and a 4 GB flash drive that I keep just for doing BIOS updates.
> 
> Read the section titled "Flash AMI UEFI BIOS by MFLASH" here:
> ...


I used a 128GB drive without problems for my Asus TUF B450-Plus Gaming without problems. I do prefer my faithful Verbatim 16GB drive, so that was just a test.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 19, 2019)

Anyone here using 3rd Gen and B350


----------



## Kissamies (Dec 19, 2019)

Well, after posting that previous one, I saw a new version. Not that much of a need to update since I'm kickin' with 2nd gen, but I guess it won't hurt. With the Verbatim drive 






At least we got AGESA 1.0.0.4, I've already updated this once (bought this about 1½ months ago) and that one was still 1.0.0.3

e: validate: https://valid.x86.fr/btkym8


----------



## Samiam66 (Dec 19, 2019)

just put together a similar unit  last week..
Amd processors have really come down in price this week ... Bonus


https://valid.x86.fr/zjnehq


----------



## Kissamies (Dec 20, 2019)

Samiam66 said:


> just put together a similar unit  last week..
> *Amd processors have really come down in price this week* ... Bonus
> 
> 
> https://valid.x86.fr/zjnehq


Good point, damn, 2600 is 130EUR on its lowest here in Finland. I paid 175EUR from mine about an year ago.

I'd say that 2nd gen has a damn great price/performance ratio now.


----------



## potato580+ (Dec 20, 2019)

NoJuan999 said:


> That 32 GB flash drive should still work just make sure to format it as FAT32, I just know that an 8 GB or smaller drive tends to be what the MB manufacturers recommend.
> I have a 2 GB dive and a 4 GB flash drive that I keep just for doing BIOS updates.
> 
> Read the section titled "Flash AMI UEFI BIOS by MFLASH" here:
> ...


done it, success in first try, i dunno whats new update for, as i test nothing change rly hehe, thx for the guide btw 



Chloe Price said:


> Good point, damn, 2600 is 130EUR on its lowest here in Finland. I paid 175EUR from mine about an year ago.
> 
> I'd say that 2nd gen has a damn great price/performance ratio now.


still expensive here, especially gen 3rd, it cost extra $70, this is the reason i noy upgrade my cpu


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 26, 2019)

Anyone using the R5 3600


----------



## biffzinker (Dec 26, 2019)

Durvelle27 said:


> Anyone using the R5 3600


I am, my R5 3600 is a bit of a dud in the silicon lottery for a forced all core overclock. A couple of days back I was checking how high I could get the clock speed up with the Vcore limited to 1.2. It maintains stability at a clockspeed of 3,975 MHz with the Vcore set at 1.2. Another 25 MHz requires the voltage to go up.

Before though, I've just left it alone at the out of box defaults.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 26, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> I am, my R5 3600 is a bit of a dud in the silicon lottery for a forced all core overclock. A couple of days back I was checking how high I could get the clock speed up with the Vcore limited to 1.2. It maintains stability at a clockspeed of 3,975 MHz with the Vcore set at 1.2. Another 25 MHz requires the voltage to go up.
> 
> Before though, I've just left it alone at the out of box defaults.


What board


----------



## biffzinker (Dec 26, 2019)

Durvelle27 said:


> What board


I have it listed in my System Specs:


ProcessorRyzen 5 3600MotherboardMSI B450 Tomahawk ATX






						Overview B450 TOMAHAWK
					

As a world leading gaming brand, MSI is the most trusted name in gaming and eSports. We stand by our principles of breakthroughs in design, and roll out the amazing gaming gear like motherboards, graphics cards, laptops and desktops.




					www.msi.com


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 27, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> I have it listed in my System Specs:
> 
> 
> ProcessorRyzen 5 3600MotherboardMSI B450 Tomahawk ATX
> ...


Do you use PBO


----------



## biffzinker (Dec 27, 2019)

Durvelle27 said:


> Do you use PBO


No I disabled it, and left XFR on. I tried to make use of PBO but it didn't amount to a positive out come.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 27, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> No I disabled it, and left XFR on. I tried to make use of PBO but it didn't amount to a positive out come.


I have a B350 board which doesn't support PBO so I've been looking around for the clocks people have hit with the 3600


----------



## Kissamies (Dec 27, 2019)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC it's pretty safe to go up from 1.2V? Not comparable but I run my 2600 @ 1.325V 4025MHz with a crappier board (Asus TUF B450-Plus Gaming).


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 29, 2019)

Hey guys i have a Ryzen 3600 rig with Some Micron RAM rated at 3200MHz CL16 but it will not boot. If i set ram to 3133MHz it boots just fine and pasts some test. But I've tried loosening timings and raising volts but still will not boot at 3200MHz

Any advice


----------



## Final_Fighter (Dec 29, 2019)

Durvelle27 said:


> Hey guys i have a Ryzen 3600 rig with Some Micron RAM rated at 3200MHz CL16 but it will not boot. If i set ram to 3133MHz it boots just fine and pasts some test. But I've tried loosening timings and raising volts but still will not boot at 3200MHz
> 
> Any advice



try the ram at 3333. sounds weird but i had the exact board with micron ram and it would not do 3200. i cant remember the revison of the ram but it was a set of corsair modules that thaipoon reported as micron. would only boot 3333 at xmp timmings.

good luck.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Dec 29, 2019)

Final_Fighter said:


> try the ram at 3333. sounds weird but i had the exact board with micron ram and it would not do 3200. i cant remember the revison of the ram but it was a set of corsair modules that thaipoon reported as micron. would only boot 3333 at xmp timmings.
> 
> good luck.


So after playing around with it and someone pointing out my slot configuration, ASRock states for 3200MHz you have to use slots A2 and B2. I was using slots A1 and B1.

I have now gotten 3600MHz on the RAM and its running memtest with no issues


----------



## $ReaPeR$ (Dec 30, 2019)

hey guys. I wanted to note a problem I had recently with my main ryzen setup (3900x, x470 taichi latest bios, Seasonic focus 850 platinum, 32GB gskill tridentz RGB 16 cas), after putting my setup in my phanteks enthoo luxe I noticed that my system was rebooting randomly, after days of research i discovered that the problem was created by connecting one of my Noctua industrial PPC fan to the "cha fan3/wp" header. I don't know if anyone of you had this problem, so I just wanted to let you know.


----------



## Xzibit (Jan 21, 2020)

In case people haven't noticed

*AMD Chipset Drivers - 2.01.15.2138 - 1/16/2020*



Spoiler: driver details



 
Driver Details
*Supports:*
Windows® 7/10 for
2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor
7th-Gen AMD A-Series Processors
AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor
AMD X470 Chipset
AMD X370 Chipset
AMD B450 Chipset
AMD B350 Chipset
AMD A320 Chipset
Windows® 10 only for
3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ Processors
3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor
2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ Processor
AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ Processor
AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor with Radeon™ Vega Graphics
AMD Ryzen™ Mobile Processor with Radeon™ Vega Graphics
AMD X399 Chipset
AMD X570 Chipset
        AMD TRX40 Chipset
*Package Includes:*
        AMD Chipset Drivers
        AMD Ryzen™ Power Plans (required for UEFI CPPC2 in Windows® 10 May 2019 Update)


----------



## Nordic (Feb 6, 2020)

My ryzen build stopped booting about a week ago. I am just now getting around to troubleshooting.

My motherboard doesn't have proper boot codes which isn't helpful. It has the cpu and dram codes on meaning that the the cpu and or dram isn't working properly.

I tried clearing cmos. I tried going down to one of my four ram sticks. I tried different ram sticks being the only ram stick. I tried taking the cpu out and re-seating it. I am still having the same problem.

The fans spin up when power first comes on but they do not stay on.

I think my next step is going to be trying a friends ram stick. If that fails I am going to buy the cheapest supported cpu to troubleshoot with.

This motherboard has been nothing but trouble since I bought it. It should have listened to @EarthDog and got the nicer mitx board instead of this crappy matx board.


----------



## biffzinker (Feb 6, 2020)

Nordic said:


> My ryzen build stopped booting about a week ago. I am just now getting around to troubleshooting.
> 
> My motherboard doesn't have proper boot codes which isn't helpful. It has the cpu and dram codes on meaning that the the cpu and or dram isn't working properly.
> 
> ...


It's sounds as though the board died from the troubleshooting you've done so far.


----------



## mbeeston (Feb 6, 2020)

Nordic said:


> My ryzen build stopped booting about a week ago. I am just now getting around to troubleshooting.
> 
> My motherboard doesn't have proper boot codes which isn't helpful. It has the cpu and dram codes on meaning that the the cpu and or dram isn't working properly.
> 
> ...


try unpluggin the hdd/ssd's, a drive or sata port might have failed and is shorting it.


----------



## Nordic (Feb 6, 2020)

mbeeston said:


> try unpluggin the hdd/ssd's, a drive or sata port might have failed and is shorting it.


I will try this.



biffzinker said:


> It's sounds as though the board died from the troubleshooting you've done so far.


That would be surprising. I had been running it at stock for weeks or months because I was tired of fighting the motherboard to work normally.


----------



## GoldenX (Feb 14, 2020)

Did a small upgrade from a 1200 to a 3400G. Only problem I'm facing is that if I change anything PBO related, I have to do a clearCMOS to get my RAM clocks back, else they get stuck at 2133MHz.
Can't blame the mobo, it's a B350, it should not even have PBO nor autoOC.


----------



## biffzinker (Feb 14, 2020)

GoldenX said:


> Can't blame the mobo, it's a B350, it should not even have PBO nor autoOC.


The secondary chipset has no bearing on whether PBO works or not. PBO falls under overclocking above the manufacturer's specifications.

It worked fine on the MSI B350 Gaming Pro with the 2600X. There wasn't much headroom for single core boost above what AMD guarantees so I left it off.


----------



## GoldenX (Feb 14, 2020)

Found it, it's when you try to set the CAD_BUS block.


----------



## Hardi (Feb 29, 2020)

bought 2 more sticks of G.Skill F4-3600C16-8GTZR
working fine  @ 4 x 8GB 3733 16-16-16-32 1.43v SOC ~1.07v


----------



## Xzibit (Mar 19, 2020)

Freshly released.

*AMD Chipset Drivers - 2.03.12.0657 - 3/19/2020*



Spoiler: Driver Details



*Supports:*
Windows® 7/10 for
2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor
7th-Gen AMD A-Series Processors
AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor
AMD X470 Chipset
AMD X370 Chipset
AMD B450 Chipset
AMD B350 Chipset
AMD A320 Chipset
Windows® 10 only for
3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ Processors
3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor
2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ Processor
AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ Processor
AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor with Radeon™ Graphics
AMD Ryzen™ Mobile Processor with Radeon™ Graphics
AMD X399 Chipset
AMD X570 Chipset
        AMD TRX40 Chipset
*Package Includes:*
        AMD Chipset Drivers
        AMD Ryzen™ Power Plans (required for UEFI CPPC2 in Windows® 10 May 2019 Update)


----------



## Mussels (Mar 19, 2020)

Xzibit said:


> Freshly released.
> 
> *AMD Chipset Drivers - 2.03.12.0657 - 3/19/2020*
> 
> ...



i literally checked for updated drivers like 12 hours ago...


----------



## Final_Fighter (Mar 20, 2020)

just tried to install the latest chipset drivers. they would not install and gave error 1720. followed all the usual recommendations from various sites and could not get them to take. currently using windows 10 1909 build 18363.720. anybody else having this issue?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Mar 20, 2020)

Let me try and upload em

Nvmd this site doesnt allow large uploads

@Final_Fighter try this, i just uploaded the chipset driver





						Filebin :: bin 2gtoa89s3jer4mll
					

Upload files and make them available for your friends. Think of it as Pastebin for files. Registration is not required. Large files are supported.




					filebin.net


----------



## ChristTheGreat (Mar 21, 2020)

Hey guys,

I got a 3600x with a Noctua NH-U12S, with a Fractal Dynamic X2 PWM 120mm (max 2000rpm, 87cfm, 2.3mmH2O).

Room temp: 22C, idle temp, varies between 42 and 54C, depending of core boost (very high voltage, might disable this)  Full load prime 95: 78 to 82C, 1.3v and 4ghz (I've lost a 100mhz in the process of repasting, duh?). Temp reading with NZXT Cam.


Are these temp normal? I had push pull setup but 2 fans make a crazy noise. Case is Fractal Define C TG, with Fractal Venturi HF-120, airflow is quite good. I was wondering, because I might go with all core clock with lowest voltage possible.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 21, 2020)

40's in idle seems fine, the loads seem a bit high

they boost until they hit X temp,*and* they read differently so you definitely see higher temps vs intel builds

all core OC's arent recommended as much these days, people are seeing chip degradation pretty fast. Do some testing and thinking about whether you actually see any benefit over stock/tweaked PBO


----------



## Nordic (Mar 27, 2020)

Do to a power delivery failure where my power supplies 8pin melted to the motherboard, I have side/upgraded my motherboard to an Asus tuf x570.

Edit: I believe the motherboard is fine although I have not tested. The power supply has tested fine, although I am not using it anymore. I now have a better motherboard than the Asrock X570 matx. It is a little upsetting to have to spend more money, but overall I am happy I have a nicer motherboard. I also had to buy a new case to fit a full sized atx board.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Mar 27, 2020)

Nordic said:


> Do to a power delivery failure where my power supplies 8pin melted to the motherboard, I have side/upgraded my motherboard to an Asus tuf x570.



What was the psu and mobo you had?


----------



## Nordic (Mar 27, 2020)

Motherboard was Asrock X570 matx. The power supply was an xfx 850w that was very well reviewed by johnny guru but I could not tell you the model anymore. I no longer have the PSU.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 27, 2020)

Ugh. I'll have some spare money soon so of course i looked at hardware upgrades... and i cant justify anything at current prices.

My hardware simply is good enough, and that makes me sad for the 3900x that could have been.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Mar 27, 2020)

Nordic said:


> Motherboard was Asrock X570 matx. The power supply was an xfx 850w that was very well reviewed by johnny guru but I could not tell you the model anymore. I no longer have the PSU.



Once in a blue moon you get a dud psu from a reputable design.


----------



## Nordic (Mar 27, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Once in a blue moon you get a dud psu from a reputable design.


Maybe. The psu was getting to 5 years old, which is not that old. I did have pbo enabled, and my edc limits raised to the motherboards limits and was running boinc 24/7. I started to have issues with it turning off randomly during high load, which I thought was because it was overheating. When it stopped working entirely I investigated and found out it was the power supply cable.


----------



## GoldenX (Mar 27, 2020)

Remember the MSI beta BIOS to circumvent the 16MB chip problem?
They _suck _on a 3400G. Bad GPU clocking, PBO doesn't work, autoOC neither, RAM only works on XMP, most timing values reset the RAM to 2133MHz CL15, if you manually set a GPU clock to fix the clocking issue, the CPU locks at 1.5v, etc...


----------



## RoyZ (Mar 30, 2020)

Good evening.

I have been reading all I can the past days about this stuff, but I'm still very new to all this, so I thank you in advance for the patience.
Also, forgive my english if I end up making some spell mistakes. It ain't my first language.

After 8 years with my old PC, I decided to finally upgrade. Nothing too fancy, just some more up to date hardware.
So I ended up building my first AMD PC, as I got a Ryzen R5 3600 CPU, on a MSI B450 Gaming plus ATX motherboard, 16gb RAM at 3000mhz, and a Nvidia RTX 2060 SUPER.

For now, I am using the stock cooler on the CPU, and the temps are worrying me. It can get above 85 C when playing BF5, for example. Seen it reach 89 C on heaviest maps. And that is with my case open, since I have a poor case, with only a couple fans. But still, case open and AC on in my room. This is too hot.
Just to inform, I'm monitoring in game numbers with MSI Afterburner.

So I started reading some stuff about undervolting the CPU to achieve lower temps using the Ryzen Master AMD software. Got a word from some other users on another forum I participate, and they told me it is safe to undervolt, as long as you don't over do it and make your system unstabble.

First thing, to check how my CPU on stock is behaving in numbers, I downloaded Cinebench R20 and ran it on stock CPU settings. Followed the test observing Ryzen Master for Temps and Clocks, and the clocks of my CPU never went above 3800 Ghz. I have been told it is because my temps rise and the CPU dont run at high clocks cause of that. On BF5, it usually sits on 3900 Ghz.

So I added a profile on Ryzen Master. Put my cores at 4000 Ghz, and voltage at 1.25. These values were advised to me by some user to start testing, and from there trying to lower the voltage to 1.2 or even lower.

So I set this up, and first thing I did was go to the game and see. The highest temp I got on BF5 was 69 C, on the same map I got 85-89 before, on stock.

I got happy about the temps I was getting, but the thing that worries me is that, as I kept reading about this, I saw people talking about degrading the CPU by setting static clock speed on all cores like that. So I wanted to hear from you guys, your take on this matter.

Even if I am locking the cores at a lower clock than the boost clock the CPU can take, can I damage it? (The CPU can go up to 4.2 in boost)

And about the voltage, the threads i was reading mostly said that above 1.3 voltages all the time could do this degrading. If I am able to let it stable at 1.20, should I still be worried? Even if only setting the clocks to 4000 Ghz?

Another thing. Should I try lowering the voltages but letting the cores at auto clock speed? All I tried so far was that profile I mentioned above, and it was only for ONE night. Since I did it using the Ryzen Master, CPU went back to default after I turned the PC off and turned it on again today. So at the moment as I write this post I am at stock mode. I didnt try it anymore because I got scared after reading about CPU degrade. And since I am at stock now, I scared of even playing the game.

And what is worst for my CPU? Playing the game at 85 C temps and above but on stock CPU settings, or playing the game 68, 69 C, but with all cores set to 4000 manually and voltage at 1.25 (or 1.2), with a Ryzen Master profile?

I did order a new cooler, it will arrive next week. I am low on cash right now so I could only afford a Gammaxx 400. But from what I could read about it, it should get me better temps than this stock cooler I'm using.


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## Mussels (Mar 30, 2020)

1.2v static OC should be quite safe long term

its not the voltage thats the issue, its the amperage - so a single core boosting at 1.5v briefly is safer than all core 1.4v


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## GoldenX (Mar 30, 2020)

From what I've heard, on Zen2, the max high current voltage with no degradation is somewhere near 1.325v.
1.375v for Zen+.


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## Taraquin (Apr 9, 2020)

Did some Cinebench15-testing with different voltages/speed/PPT-limit on my 3600 with BeQuiet dark rock slim cooler, values are avg after 5 runs:
Stock 1545, 3925MHz 65C 90W
PPT 65 - 30mv: 1480, 3750MHz, 54C, 66W
4GHz@1.14V 1590, 55C, 71W

Gamingperformance was identical at all 3 in the games tested so far. 

As for idle-temps stock and the PPT-variant varies between 31 to 45C. At the fixed 4GHz it's extremely stable at 31-35C.

Think I'm gonna stick to 4GHz@1.14V


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## Mussels (Apr 9, 2020)

i was thinking about saving up and snagging a 3900x, but decided to get a 3600, and get a 4000 series chip at the end of the year

Just like Taraquin above me, i plan to pair it with a dark rock slim (what an incredible cooler)


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## Nordic (Apr 19, 2020)

I have a question about memory. My specs are up to date.

I have a Corsair 4x8gb 3600mhz Cas 18 (CMK32GX4M4D3600C18 , Micron E die) kit. I can not under any circumstances get the memory to run at 3600mhz. I can do 3533mhz Cas 14 but not 3600 Cas 18 which is what it is rated for. It doesn't matter if I use 1, 2, 3, or 4 sticks. It doesn't matter what voltage I use. The system will not boot whatsoever if I set the memory to 3600mhz.

I have now tried this memory and cpu on two different x570 motherboards now with the same results. I don't have another ryzen cpu to test the memory with. I don't have other DDR4 memory to test with either.

Is it the CPU or my specific memory kit that can't run the memory at 3600mhz?


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## Athlonite (Apr 19, 2020)

Nordic said:


> I have a question about memory. My specs are up to date.
> 
> I have a Corsair 4x8gb 3600mhz Cas 18 (CMK32GX4M4D3600C18 , Micron E die) kit. I can not under any circumstances get the memory to run at 3600mhz. I can do 3533mhz Cas 14 but not 3600 Cas 18 which is what it is rated for.
> 
> ...



did you read your mobo's memory QVL it list on there which 3600MHz kits work with you mobo/cpu combo

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/...VL_3rd_Gen_AMD_Ryzen_Processors_X570_0722.pdf

from what I read it looks like you've bought an incompatible kit for speed/dimms you'll need kits that are spectek or samsung memory based


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## Nordic (Apr 19, 2020)

Athlonite said:


> did you read your mobo's memory QVL it list on there which 3600MHz kits work with you mobo/cpu combo
> 
> https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/...VL_3rd_Gen_AMD_Ryzen_Processors_X570_0722.pdf


I chose this kit because it specifically was on the motherboard QVL list. My memory kit is on my new and old motherboard's QVL list.


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## tabascosauz (Apr 19, 2020)

Nordic said:


> I chose this kit because it specifically was on the motherboard QVL list. My memory kit is on my new and old motherboard's QVL list.



Could this be another rare case of a high end chip that can't do 1800 IF? It seems unlikely, but not impossible. Other than that, aside from checking that you are indeed running 1.35V as opposed to JEDEC 1.2V, I can't think of much else. Does 1.4V help you get there? Rev.E should be able to handle it.

What about plugging in some Safe or Fast numbers from Ryzen calculator for Rev.E 3600?

@Athlonite spectek is shite. Spectek is Micron that Micron deems isn't nearly good enough for the Micron sticker.

It doesn't get better than Rev.E for good performance without breaking the bank, but I wonder if this is just another case of the Corsair curse; they seem to only get good bins for their top freq B-die kits, and everything else they get from Hynix, Micron and Samsung is absolutely dumpster tier bins, even if the actual ICs are B-die, Rev.E or CJR. It could very well be a bad bin though, 3600/18 generally doesn't bode well for IC quality.

Also, most would take 3533/14 over 3600/18 in a heartbeat. They're not in the same league. That 3533 is great news, if stable.


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## Athlonite (Apr 19, 2020)

Nordic said:


> I chose this kit because it specifically was on the motherboard QVL list. My memory kit is on my new and old motherboard's QVL list.


 that'll be this kit then CORSAIR CMK32GX4M4D3600C18 ver3.31 32GB(8GB*4) SS Spectek 18-22-22-42 1.35V 3600 3600 ● ● ●

hmmm maybe you cpu's imc doesn't like it can you get 2 of the dimms working at the rated speed


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Apr 19, 2020)

Nordic said:


> I have a question about memory. My specs are up to date.
> 
> I have a Corsair 4x8gb 3600mhz Cas 18 (CMK32GX4M4D3600C18 , Micron E die) kit. I can not under any circumstances get the memory to run at 3600mhz. I can do 3533mhz Cas 14 but not 3600 Cas 18 which is what it is rated for. It doesn't matter if I use 1, 2, 3, or 4 sticks. It doesn't matter what voltage I use. The system will not boot whatsoever if I set the memory to 3600mhz.
> 
> ...


Try 18,22,22,22,84 that for four sticks of micron E to boot here at 3600.


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## Nordic (Apr 19, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Try 18,22,22,22,84 that for four sticks of micron E to boot here at 3600.





tabascosauz said:


> Could this be another rare case of a high end chip that can't do 1800 IF? It seems unlikely, but not impossible. Other than that, aside from checking that you are indeed running 1.35V as opposed to JEDEC 1.2V, I can't think of much else. Does 1.4V help you get there? Rev.E should be able to handle it.


It doesn't matter if I use 1, 2, 3, or 4 sticks. It doesn't matter what voltage I use. The system will not boot whatsoever if I set the memory to 3600mhz. At first I hoped it was something that would be fixed with a bios update. I have now had this memory kit for months and tried it on two different motherboards. It will NOT boot with the memory set to 3600mhz no matter what other settings I try.




tabascosauz said:


> What about plugging in some Safe or Fast numbers from Ryzen calculator for Rev.E 3600?
> Also, most would take 3533/14 over 3600/18 in a heartbeat. They're not in the same league. That 3533 is great news, if stable.


I have played with the Ryzen calculator. That is how I got the the memory kit to 3533mhz Cas 14. I score better in benchmarks and have better latency at 3533mhz Cas 16 though.

3200mhz Cas 18, Best time: 130.31, Random Latency: 86.31
3533mhz Cas 18 , Best time: 117.62 , Random Latency: 80.64 (Best latency)
3200mhz Cas 16, Best time: 120.5, Random Latency: 90.62
3533mhz Cas 16 , Best time 109.73: , Random Latency: 82.37 (Best time)
3200mhz Cas 14 , Best time: 120.5 , Random Latency: 85.74
3466mhz Cas 14 , Best time: 110.69 , Random Latency: 81.28
3533mhz Cas 14 , Best time: 111.6, Random Latency: 80.06 (Unstable)
3600mhz will not post at all




tabascosauz said:


> @!Athlonite spectek is shite. Spectek is Micron that Micron deems isn't nearly good enough for the Micron sticker.
> 
> It doesn't get better than Rev.E for good performance without breaking the bank, but I wonder if this is just another case of the Corsair curse; they seem to only get good bins for their top freq B-die kits, and everything else they get from Hynix, Micron and Samsung is absolutely dumpster tier bins, even if the actual ICs are B-die, Rev.E or CJR. It could very well be a bad bin though, 3600/18 generally doesn't bode well for IC quality.


I thought Rev. E was the good stuff. That is what this is.








Athlonite said:


> hmmm maybe you cpu's imc doesn't like it can you get 2 of the dimms working at the rated speed


That is my question.  Is it the cpu or memory preventing me from running 3600mhz?


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## Athlonite (Apr 19, 2020)

Probably the CPU and yeah E die is supposed to be the good stuff but Corsair have a bad habit of buying shit binned dies


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## heky (Apr 19, 2020)

@Nordic
You can set the infinity fabric speed and memory speed independently...that way you can set the IF to 1800 and the memory to only 900MTs...its the only way to find out if the chip cant do the IF speed or if the RAM is a shit bin. Also try and play with the voltages for the IMC an IF a bit. I find it really hard to believe that a 3900x can't do 1800 IF (it might be possible though)


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## Chomiq (Apr 19, 2020)

Nordic said:


> It doesn't matter if I use 1, 2, 3, or 4 sticks. It doesn't matter what voltage I use. The system will not boot whatsoever if I set the memory to 3600mhz. At first I hoped it was something that would be fixed with a bios update. I have now had this memory kit for months and tried it on two different motherboards. It will NOT boot with the memory set to 3600mhz no matter what other settings I try.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you adjusting all subtimings? GDM is enabled?


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## harm9963 (Apr 19, 2020)

Used Dram calculator to get 3600cl14 ,was easy.
G.SKILL TridentZ Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800)  F4-3600C15D-16GTZ


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## Caring1 (Apr 19, 2020)

GoldenX said:


> Remember the MSI beta BIOS to circumvent the 16MB chip problem?
> They _suck _on a 3400G. Bad GPU clocking, PBO doesn't work, autoOC neither, RAM only works on XMP, most timing values reset the RAM to 2133MHz CL15, if you manually set a GPU clock to fix the clocking issue, the CPU locks at 1.5v, etc...


This is probably what causes my issues with a 3200G on an MSI X470 Gaming Plus.
I bought 16Gb (2x8) 3600MHz ram and can't get it above 2666MHz Ram speed or it refuses to boot, it will reset to 2133MHz.


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## Taraquin (Apr 19, 2020)

Notdic: If you try safe preset on dram calc on 3600, no boot even then? Do you use A2-B2-slot for the ram? A1-B1 tends to yield lower speed on many MBs.


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## Caring1 (Apr 19, 2020)

Taraquin said:


> Notdic: If you try safe preset on dram calc on 3600, no boot even then? Do you use A2-B2-slot for the ram? A1-B1 tends to yield lower speed on many MBs.


I have to run single channel in B1 & B2 as the two other slots  closest to the CPU are dead.


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## Mussels (Apr 19, 2020)

Caring1 said:


> I have to run single channel in B1 & B2 as the two other slots  closest to the CPU are dead.



i feel like this information may have been critical earlier on

also, have you checked the CPU socket and bottom of CPU? i had thermal paste run down there killing a ram slot, compressed air and iso alchoyumyums cleaned it out and fixed it


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## Caring1 (Apr 19, 2020)

Mussels said:


> i feel like this information may have been critical earlier on
> 
> also, have you checked the CPU socket and bottom of CPU? i had thermal paste run down there killing a ram slot, compressed air and iso alchoyumyums cleaned it out and fixed it


I bought the Motherboard dirt cheap as dead.
Inspected veeeery closely every component and mm of the board then proceeded to attempt booting using basic compatible Ram and a lowly (new) CPU before even trying the 3200G or better Ram.
It was only through trial and error I found two slots were dead, but the board runs faultlessly apart from the Ram speed issue now, which may be the known Bios issue I mentioned earlier by another member.


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## Mussels (Apr 19, 2020)

This is why my ram slot stopped work, its called 'woops thats conductonaut'


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## Taraquin (Apr 19, 2020)

Caring1 said:


> I have to run single channel in B1 & B2 as the two other slots  closest to the CPU are dead.


In that case I would get a new MB, you are missing a lot of performance due tobsingle channel, and using the B1-slot probably affects you max ram speed quite a bit.


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## GoldenX (Apr 19, 2020)

Yup I can confirm that, if the sticks are not in the preferred slots, you will have problems reaching high RAM clocks.


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## Caring1 (Apr 19, 2020)

Thanks guys, I'm happy using it as a low power system for browsing and emails, so performance isn't a real issue.
I do have a Motherboard on the way I bought from a great member here, so will be getting much better performance with that for a gaming build.


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 19, 2020)

Mussels said:


> This is why my ram slot stopped work, its called 'woops thats conductonaut'


So remove the conductonaut. Those pins are not voltage sensitive, they should start working again. Little bit of IPA and a soft toothbrush gently applied will do the trick. If you don't have any IPA, a bit of dish or hand soap in warm water will work. Just remember to brush outwards and to clean the brush after every swipe.


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## Mussels (Apr 19, 2020)

oh i removed it weeks ago, i did comment it was past tense - just an entirely valid way he may be able to clean out his CPU socket and get his slots back

thats liquid metal, so it literally blew off with compressed air (i aimed at the nearest 5G tower, to give everyone corona)


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 19, 2020)

Mussels said:


> oh i removed it weeks ago, i did comment it was past tense


Oops, must have missed that. Sorry. Only trying to be helpful..


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## Nordic (Apr 19, 2020)

Taraquin said:


> Notdic: If you try safe preset on dram calc on 3600, no boot even then? Do you use A2-B2-slot for the ram? A1-B1 tends to yield lower speed on many MBs.


As I mentioned earlier it doesn't matter if I used 1, 2, 3, or 4 sticks. I have tried only being in the A-B2 slots. I even tried A1-B1 just to try it. I can use the XMP 3600mhz Cas 18 settings and it won't boot no matter the voltage. 



Chomiq said:


> Are you adjusting all subtimings? GDM is enabled?


Yes. I am adjusting subtimings. I am using the Ryzen DRAM calculator to determine what subtimings to use. Even the XMP setting doesn't work.



heky said:


> @Nordic
> You can set the infinity fabric speed and memory speed independently...that way you can set the IF to 1800 and the memory to only 900MTs...its the only way to find out if the chip cant do the IF speed or if the RAM is a shit bin. Also try and play with the voltages for the IMC an IF a bit. I find it really hard to believe that a 3900x can't do 1800 IF (it might be possible though)


It has been a few months but I am fairly certain I tried that on the old motherboard and it didn't help. I don't remember clearly and I have a new motherboard so this might be worth another try.


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## Taraquin (Apr 19, 2020)

Nordic: It sounds like your MB could be T-top if you can run 3533cl14 with 4 sticks. They trive with 4 sticks, but don't go very high with 2. 4 sticks at 3533cl14 should get you impressive performance


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## heky (Apr 19, 2020)

His board (if it is the Asus TUF Gaming Plus) has no problem running ram at 3600mhz. I have built 2 different systems using the same board, one with an 3700x and one with an 3600. Both had no problems running 2 8gb sticks of e-die @ 3600MT


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## Nordic (Apr 20, 2020)

Taraquin said:


> Nordic: It sounds like your MB could be T-top if you can run 3533cl14 with 4 sticks. They trive with 4 sticks, but don't go very high with 2. 4 sticks at 3533cl14 should get you impressive performance


3533mhz cl14 isn't stable which should explain why it isn't performing better than 3533cl16.

My old motherboard was a asrock x570 pro4 matx it that is useful to the conversation. I am going to try setting the infinity fabric speed different from the memory later this week.


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## Nordic (Apr 23, 2020)

@heky I can boot successfully with 1833mhz FCLK with this new asus motherboard when I couldn't do 1800mhz with the old asrock motherboard. It seems the CPU can do more than the memory is capable of. I guess that answers my original question. The memory is the problem not the cpu.


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## GoldenX (Apr 26, 2020)

Did a sidegrade to a B450 Aorus M. PBO clocks improved (specially with PBO Scalar 10x), voltage can be manipulated in a stable way, and RAM timings can be properly set without reverting to 2133MHz. Plus a cute heatsink for my M.2 SSD.
Stupid MSI beta BIOS, never again.


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## Chomiq (Apr 27, 2020)

So what's the consensus on running pbo with 3000 series? Leave it enabled or switch it off for my 3700x. Typical use case is gaming.


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## TheLostSwede (Apr 27, 2020)

Chomiq said:


> So what's the consensus on running pbo with 3000 series? Leave it enabled or switch it off for my 3700x. Typical use case is gaming.


I have mine off, as it doesn't seem to do anything in my case. That said, I have not tried the "scalar" option mentioned above.


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## Mussels (Apr 27, 2020)

I either leave it off, or cap the wattage slightly lower than stock for good temps


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## Calmmo (Apr 27, 2020)

PBO is a lie. It's good for making me loose some benchmark points, but that's about it.


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## kapone32 (Apr 27, 2020)

Mussels said:


> I either leave it off, or cap the wattage slightly lower than stock for good temps



Even on my 2920x I leave PBO off and the funny thing is I get 4.2 GHZ across all cores at 1.225 volts


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## robot zombie (May 3, 2020)

I was just sitting at my desk having a little stuck in the house type vape when I had a holy vision, which I was lucky enough to capture and share with all of you today.







Is this perhaps some divine force's way of foretelling the immaculate qualities of the next Ryzen 9? I take it as a sign that I am on the path to enlightenment, and that the next part of my journey will require me to buy a second Ryzen 9 - of the 4000 series, in order to ascend to the 4th plane. I had arranged my packages up on a pedestal by the light, this is AMD's monolithic architecture. This arrangement of boxes is as I was guided by Lisa Su to do, in a dream I had last week. Now, I see what she was trying to tell me in the dream. So it has been foretold. It is a good day. I will buy another Ryzen 9, when the prophesy is realized and a new processor meets our world, as is Lisa's will. May we all then bask in infinitely smooth godrays from that day on, throughout all eternity.


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## Caring1 (May 3, 2020)

robot zombie said:


> I was just sitting at my desk having a little stuck in the house type vape when I had a holy vision, which I was lucky enough to capture and share with all of you today.
> 
> View attachment 153587View attachment 153588
> 
> Is this perhaps some divine force's way of foretelling the immaculate qualities of the next Ryzen 9? I take it as a sign that I am on the path to enlightenment, and that the next part of my journey will require me to buy a second Ryzen 9 - of the 4000 series, in order to ascend to the 4th plane. I had arranged my packages up on a pedestal by the light, this is AMD's monolithic architecture. This arrangement of boxes is as I was guided by Lisa Su to do, in a dream I had last week. Now, I see what she was trying to tell me in the dream. So it has been foretold. It is a good day. I will buy another Ryzen 9, when the prophesy is realized and a new processor meets our world, as is Lisa's will. May we all then bask in infinitely smooth godrays from that day on, throughout all eternity.


First thing that popped in to my thoughts was an ancient monolith with apes dancing around it's base.


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## GoldenX (May 3, 2020)

@Chomiq @TheLostSwede there is a risk of degradation when using the scalar at 10x, it forces a higher constant voltage not only for single thread loads, but for also for all threads loads too.


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## robot zombie (May 3, 2020)

Caring1 said:


> First thing that popped in to my thoughts was an ancient monolith with apes dancing around it's base.


I hear the congo drums and grunting now... it's like some kind of elaborate fanboy skit.

I feel like I get why AMD doesn't do monolithic architectures now. It is because WE are the builders. They give us the pieces. They provide the glue. And all that is asked of us is that we dream. We can construct a whole new world... a whole new reality! Do you _see_ it? Behold! The monolith of AMD!


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## GoldenX (May 3, 2020)

Do I hear Jim Keller working on something from Intel? That monolith better be strong.


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## robot zombie (May 3, 2020)

GoldenX said:


> Do I hear Jim Keller working on something from Intel? That monolith better be strong.


Theirs will have to be, because they never give you any glue. And even when they do, I hear it wasn't very good glue. I like AMD. AMD has good glue. Jim Keller would never share his glue with the cult of the polyhedron box. It is unfortunate, as the best glue is needed to stack polyhedron boxes. AMD boxes don't even need the glue. AMD just happens to have it. A testament to their blessing, and Intel's condemnation.


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## Kursah (May 7, 2020)

I'd stopped watching months ago, but what I  was eager for in September appears to have finally made it in late April. Will be upgrading after work to see if I notice anything...I don't expect much of any changes, so at worst I break even or roll back to the previous.




I guess better late than never, and I don't expect to purchase a 3950X, but will see how it affects my 2700X. Probably gonna stick with this build and see what the next gen of AMD and Intel brings later on, also see if I have a budget to upgrade by then lol.


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## tabascosauz (May 10, 2020)

Is anyone else dealing with Windows / drive corruption on their Ryzen builds, of any generation? I've run into data corruption issues a number of times now since moving to the 3700X platform I have now, back in August.

The first handful of times I chalked it up to testing lower Vcore limits at 4-4.1GHz and unstable memory configurations, which resulted in a lot of BSODs, some of which may have rebooted abruptly. But a chkdsk and sfc scan seemed to rectify the problems. _I reinstalled Windows_, just in case, which was easy to do as this was all in the first month or two, when AMD was still figuring out firmware.
Then, when I switched to my current memory kit, a botched install of G.skill's RGB control software and drivers also grenaded my Windows installation. So _I reinstalled Windows again_. Lesson learned, don't ever restart via the installation wizard's prompt.
I spent some time at 16-18-18-32 1.35V under the illusion of stability until MW came along and proved that DJR needs to stay at 16-19-19. Some BSODs ensued, but I went back to stable settings and all was good. Chkdsk and sfc both found disk and Windows installation errors respectively, and fixed them.
Booted up today and was met with an instant PAGE FAULT IN NONPAGED AREA bluescreen. On the next boot, I ran a chkdsk command, which found quite a few errors and spent a few minutes fixing them. Subsequently, an sfc command also found verification errors and fixed them. Both are clean now.
This memory kit is 100% stable through mt86, P95 large, IBT, membench, etc. So is the previous kit. These also aren't graphics-related (I know what that looks like because at the time of purchase, the WHQL drivers were unsatisfactory and creating some artifacts), so all I can think of are it being platform-related so a Ryzen firmware thing, or the SX8200 drive itself.

I can't think of much I can do on the firmware front. I'm always on the latest BIOS, which is 1.0.0.4, and always kept up to date with chipset firmware.
I bought the SX8200 because it's both a value and performance leader, but ADATA isn't the most reputable of manufacturers in my mind (despite having several of their impressive products over the years). But I can't find anyone who's had similar problems on this drive.
I've not had this kind of recurring corruption with _any_ Intel platform I've built on over the years. My laptop is NVMe as well - the Windows installation on that has never faltered over the past 2 years, installed on the OEM PM981, which is a 3.0 x4 drive. I recently upgraded to a SN750 drive, also no issues.

A BR1500MS UPS protects my desktop, so it's not a power loss issue, either.


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## TheLostSwede (May 10, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Is anyone else dealing with Windows / drive corruption on their Ryzen builds, of any generation? I've run into data corruption issues a number of times now since moving to the 3700X platform I have now, back in August.
> 
> The first handful of times I chalked it up to testing lower Vcore limits at 4-4.1GHz and unstable memory configurations, which resulted in a lot of BSODs, some of which may have rebooted abruptly. But a chkdsk and sfc scan seemed to rectify the problems. _I reinstalled Windows_, just in case, which was easy to do as this was all in the first month or two, when AMD was still figuring out firmware.
> Then, when I switched to my current memory kit, a botched install of G.skill's RGB control software and drivers also grenaded my Windows installation. So _I reinstalled Windows again_. Lesson learned, don't ever restart via the installation wizard's prompt.
> ...


Nope, not had any issues like that with my two AMD rigs, never even heard of anything like it.


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## Mussels (May 11, 2020)

doesnt sound like anything i've ran into either

i've had BSOD issues on my ryzen 1400, since it doesnt like ram above 2400 (and i had 2667 and 3200 ram on it that was notoriously bad for 1st gen ryzen support)
It would always pass memory tests and had no issues, but i'd get the infamous black screen crashes until i lowered it

the repeated corruption makes me think it may well be the SSD itself - but the page fault errors scream memory/IMC related


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## tabascosauz (May 11, 2020)

Mussels said:


> doesnt sound like anything i've ran into either
> 
> i've had BSOD issues on my ryzen 1400, since it doesnt like ram above 2400 (and i had 2667 and 3200 ram on it that was notoriously bad for 1st gen ryzen support)
> It would always pass memory tests and had no issues, but i'd get the infamous black screen crashes until i lowered it
> ...



So you think it might still be a RAM stability issue, that just doesn't show in benches? Interesting. On that note, I backed it off to the XMP timings and subtimings. 17-19-19-39, even back down to the 2T command rate. I lost about 1.5GB/s read and 1.4ns in AIDA, but I don't think losing my files on account of it grenading Windows again is a fair trade.

I can't even run, say 3200, at tighter timings. This board's latest BIOS is incapable of setting any DRAM voltage other than what JEDEC (1.2V) or the XMP profile (1.35V) tells it. If you enter anything else instead of Auto, it'll just treat it as 1.2V and get stuck on POST. A real testament to Gigabyte's commitment to providing for their non-X570 boards.

If the corruption continues to take place, this drive is probably out on its ear. It'll be the first and the last time I've ever trusted a company other than Intel, Crucial, Samsung or WD for my boot SSD.


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## Mussels (May 11, 2020)

well yeah, the benches are at load, the crashes can be at idle/low load. stress tests dont show up every type of fault.


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## Toothless (May 12, 2020)

Alright, my turn to join.

So my system specs are current for the Ryzen build. I did some tweaking and managed to get 4.5ghz all core with a peak voltage of 1.4v. 









						AMD Ryzen 7 3700X @ 4498.95 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

[f71p4u] Validated Dump by Veraltet (2020-05-12 05:41:47) - MB: ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate - RAM: 32768 MB




					valid.x86.fr
				




82.3 C being how hot it gets under full load, which I wanna say ain't too bad with that core clock.






I'm thinking of moving to memory timings but I might just leave that alone for now and enjoy my cpu. I'm actually excited it's getting this far.


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## tabascosauz (May 12, 2020)

@Toothless did you just set static 1.4V? Probably a good idea to let it go back to doing its own boost thing after you're done grabbing all the tasty benchmark scores. Impressive achievement on a 3700X, nonetheless.


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## Toothless (May 12, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> @Toothless did you just set static 1.4V? Probably a good idea to let it go back to doing its own boost thing after you're done grabbing all the tasty benchmark scores. Impressive achievement on a 3700X, nonetheless.


It'll move between 1.3 and 1.4. Full load it'll sit at 1.35 and when using fewer than 8 threads it'll go back to 1.4 peaks. It'll only do 4.150ghz on its own boosting so I figured to tweak a little.


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## tabascosauz (May 12, 2020)

Toothless said:


> It'll move between 1.3 and 1.4. Full load it'll sit at 1.35 and when using fewer than 8 threads it'll go back to 1.4 peaks. It'll only do 4.150ghz on its own boosting so I figured to tweak a little.



All core boost at around 41-41.5x is part of the design spec for 3700X; it's there because the Vcore at those speeds (~1.27-1.34V) is safe. When idle, basically none of the monitoring programs (including HWInfo) can read its actual idle Vcore, but when it's on Auto settings, the SVI2 TFN Vcore becomes accurate when the CPU is under significant load. By default they idle at between 0.2V-0.9V if you're not doing anything with the computer, it just isn't transparent to monitoring software.

I don't want to tell you what to do, but there's a lot of documentation on degradation for these 7nm silicon, and an increasing number of angry owners with mildly to significantly crippled chips after a few months of fixed frequency and fixed voltage settings. It's perfectly fine to play around with the settings and get some scores, but probably for the best to go back to default settings after. From the HWInfo window, it looks like manual OC in Ryzen Master is exactly what it sounds like, fixed 4.5GHz @ fixed 1.4V. The fluctuation just comes from you being on the default LLC setting, which allows a bit of droop.

Just a heads up - knowing how long you've held off on this upgrade, it'd be nice to have the new chip last as long as the old one. I've only been a few months earlier than you, upgrading from a 4790K as well. A lot of trial and error, ongoing learning, and frustrations past.


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## Toothless (May 12, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> All core boost at around 41-41.5x is part of the design spec for 3700X; it's there because the Vcore at those speeds (~1.27-1.34V) is safe. When idle, basically none of the monitoring programs (including HWInfo) can read its actual idle Vcore, but when it's on Auto settings, the SVI2 TFN Vcore becomes accurate when the CPU is under significant load. By default they idle at between 0.2V-0.9V if you're not doing anything with the computer, it just isn't transparent to monitoring software.
> 
> I don't want to tell you what to do, but there's a lot of documentation on degradation for these 7nm silicon, and an increasing number of angry owners with mildly to significantly crippled chips after a few months of fixed frequency and fixed voltage settings. Just a heads up - knowing how long you've held off on this upgrade, it'd be nice to have the new chip last as long as the old one. I've only been a few months earlier than you, upgrading from a 4790K as well.


What's interesting is when I leave the chip to do it's own thing, it'll go to 1.488v while staying at 4.150ghz. I'm thinking if I can get the voltage down just a bit more I should be okay for the long run.

EDIT: Peak 1.35v while staying at 4.5ghz. Either I got a really good chip or something ain't right, but the CPU-z bench keeps telling me good chip.





I should probably look in the bios to see what's going on, but when AMD's own software is letting me set these things I'm questioning if the voltage truly is 1.35v and I'm actually keeping clocks.


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## tabascosauz (May 12, 2020)

Toothless said:


> What's interesting is when I leave the chip to do it's own thing, it'll go to 1.488v while staying at 4.150ghz. I'm thinking if I can get the voltage down just a bit more I should be okay for the long run.



VID for the individual cores is not like VID on Intel chips; it doesn't tell you anything. That's not Vcore. The SVI2 TFN Vcore field further down in the second block of CPU sensors tells you the Vcore, but only accurately during load. I don't think there's a single board that applies 1.488V to reach 41.5x all core.

Like I said, you'll regularly see idle voltages up to there in software, but it's not accurate. An oscilloscope will show you the voltage actually going on. The fact that HWInfo is open also throws another wrench into monitoring idle voltage, because every time the software polls, the voltage jumps up from deep idle @ 0.3-0.9V to 1.4V (which, by default, is safe because there's no actual load and current at that point) as the CPU reacts.

You can try P95 Smallest or OCCT on the more demanding settings if you want to make sure it's actually stable. I've never had a crash on CPU-Z before, it's not very intensive. For me, 4.15GHz @ 1.3V is the limit for my 3700X.


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## Toothless (May 12, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> VID for the individual cores is not like VID on Intel chips; it doesn't tell you anything. That's not Vcore. The SVI2 TFN Vcore field further down in the second block of CPU sensors tells you the Vcore, but only accurately during load. I don't think there's a single board that applies 1.488V to reach 41.5x all core.
> 
> Like I said, you'll regularly see idle voltages up to there in software, but it's not accurate. An oscilloscope will show you the voltage actually going on. The fact that HWInfo is open also throws another wrench into monitoring idle voltage, because every time the software polls, the voltage jumps up from deep idle @ 0.3-0.9V to 1.4V (which, by default, is safe because there's no actual load and current at that point) as the CPU reacts.
> 
> You can try P95 Smallest or OCCT on the more demanding settings if you want to make sure it's actually stable. I've never had a crash on CPU-Z before, it's not very intensive.


Would you say setting the voltage in the bios would be a sure way to tell?


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## tabascosauz (May 12, 2020)

Toothless said:


> Would you say setting the voltage in the bios would be a sure way to tell?



Yeah. RM allows for per-CCX OCing, but that's about it. Any serious tweaks you want to be in BIOS for that. People used to report better OCs through RM, but it's not permanent, and that was also before people knew that their chips could degrade...


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## Toothless (May 12, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Yeah. RM allows for per-CCX OCing, but that's about it. Any serious tweaks you want to be in BIOS for that.


So I went ahead and set 1.35v for vcore in the bios, and 4.5ghz core clock. It's still functioning just as before with no issues. Running P95 now to see how that goes.


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## Mussels (May 12, 2020)

basically: we all love ryzen, but we dont want to see yours burn out and die an early death for 3FPS


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## Toothless (May 12, 2020)

So it passed a five minute run of P95 at said settings above. If I need to drop the voltage down more so be it but I'm still curious on the lack of crashes. I should mention its 1.3v on load and 1.35v on low loads/idle.


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## tabascosauz (May 12, 2020)

Toothless said:


> So it passed a five minute run of P95 at said settings above. If I need to drop the voltage down more so be it but I'm still curious on the lack of crashes.



The downside to P95 is that in order to find instability that isn't extremely obvious, it can take hours and hours. But if it continues to be stable, I'm starting to think that you might have a golden chip. 4.5GHz @ 1.4V at only 80C or so is pretty stellar. Maybe yields have improved exponentially. Did you happen to take a picture of the text on the IHS? The batch code sheds light on when yours was made.

If you can run CB R20 a couple times at those settings without any issues, that would be pretty stable.


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## Toothless (May 12, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> The downside to P95 is that in order to find instability that isn't extremely obvious, it can take hours and hours. But if it continues to be stable, I'm starting to think that you might have a golden chip. 4.5GHz @ 1.4V at only 80C or so is pretty stellar. Maybe yields have improved exponentially. Did you happen to take a picture of the text on the IHS? The batch code sheds light on when yours was made.








Between the OCCT, P95, CPU-z tests it's still peaking at 1.35v and load 1.3v. Peak temp says 83.8* and idle is around 35-50 with a video going on. I think I might be good!


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## tabascosauz (May 12, 2020)

Toothless said:


> Between the OCCT, P95, CPU-z tests it's still peaking at 1.35v and load 1.3v. Peak temp says 83.8* and idle is around 35-50 with a video going on. I think I might be good!



So basically, taking into account droop, it's basically doing 4.5GHz all core @ 1.3V. That's the best 8-core specimen I've ever seen, and I'm surprised this isn't a 3800X. Might be worth taking the voltage down further to see where the limit is / what symptoms of instability look like. Can you run like 5 runs of CB R20 without crashing? Should be more intensive than all three of the above tests.


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## Toothless (May 12, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> So basically, taking into account droop, it's basically doing 4.5GHz all core @ 1.3V. That's the best 8-core specimen I've ever seen, and I'm surprised this isn't a 3800X. Might be worth taking the voltage down further to see where the limit is / what symptoms of instability look like.


After the last few days of issues and magical things popping up (found my AM4 mounting today in a box, yay!) I think it's time to see some games that were limited by my 4790k. I'll see how far it'll go at some point.

@tabascosauz I should mention that R20 won't make it through a run, but at 4.4 it'll run it all day.


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## Chomiq (May 12, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Is anyone else dealing with Windows / drive corruption on their Ryzen builds, of any generation? I've run into data corruption issues a number of times now since moving to the 3700X platform I have now, back in August.
> 
> The first handful of times I chalked it up to testing lower Vcore limits at 4-4.1GHz and unstable memory configurations, which resulted in a lot of BSODs, some of which may have rebooted abruptly. But a chkdsk and sfc scan seemed to rectify the problems. _I reinstalled Windows_, just in case, which was easy to do as this was all in the first month or two, when AMD was still figuring out firmware.
> Then, when I switched to my current memory kit, a botched install of G.skill's RGB control software and drivers also grenaded my Windows installation. So _I reinstalled Windows again_. Lesson learned, don't ever restart via the installation wizard's prompt.
> ...


SX8200 Pro here since last August, no data corruption issues.


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## lexluthermiester (May 12, 2020)

Toothless said:


> Between the OCCT, P95, CPU-z tests it's still peaking at 1.35v and load 1.3v. Peak temp says 83.8* and idle is around 35-50 with a video going on. I think I might be good!


Are you on the stock cooler?


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## Toothless (May 12, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Are you on the stock cooler?


NH-D15 Chromax.


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## Nordic (May 13, 2020)

Inspired by Toothless, I decided to see what my 3900x could do with a manual overclock. It was stable at 4300mhz at 1.35v. I was able to benchmark at 4400mhz and 1.375v but it wasn't stable. I am now back to running stock pbo off.


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## 27MaD (May 13, 2020)

Can you guys help here?: https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/question-about-ryzen-2000-compatibility-with-a320.267017/


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## heky (May 13, 2020)

Nordic said:


> Inspired by Toothless, I decided to see what my 3900x could do with a manual overclock. It was stable at 4300mhz at 1.35v. I was able to benchmark at 4400mhz and 1.375v but it wasn't stable. I am now back to running stock pbo off.


Have you tried running a per CCD overclock? I run CCD0 @ 4.4 and CCD1 @ 4.2 with peak voltage set to 1.325v in Ryzen Master. Am running it like that for about a month now, really like the performance and the temps are lower also.


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## tabascosauz (May 13, 2020)

So apparently, this enigma of a Trident Z kit I have sitting around is the gift that keeps giving (?). It's too bad I don't have another DDR4 platform build to experiment with this, as it's a 16GB kit that was supplanted by this 32GB Trident RGB kit of DJR that I currently have. So it's just laying around.

Thaiphoon read the ICs as 4Gb D-die, which we all know is one of the oldest "legacy" ICs from Samsung and universally panned. You can't even find any information on this IC anymore, because Samsung replaced it with a much newer 8Gb D-die that clocks much higher in M/T but has poop timings. But the XMP is rated for 3200 16-16-16-36 @ 1.35V with tRFC as low as you'd usually see from B-die. It can't be B-die because the ICs are 4Gb. Such tight timings, rock solid at 1.35V, yet 4Gb D-die? You never see shit-tier ICs doing flat 16 timings on XMP, just look at the current 3200C16 Trident lineup, it's all a 16-18-18-38 shit-show.

This kit's contemporaries (these kits are all old, pre-Neo and pre-DJR days for G.skill) have a letter suffix that usually _correctly _denotes the IC revision regardless of manufacturer - so Rev.E in a kit would end in -E, CJR in -C, and B-die in -B. If it was indeed D-die, shouldn't the 042 code have been 04213X4810D, not 04213X4810E? And if the reddit guide is to be believed, two other owners of sticks with the exact same 04213X4810E code confirm that it's E-die as it should be. 

So it's got to be an error, these ICs must be 4Gb E-die instead of D-die, then. That makes a lot of sense, given the unusually tight XMP; E-die is traditionally regarded as being second best behind B-die. But I've never seen Thaiphoon make a mistake before, I've only ever seen it fail to read the IC information.  I guess that since literally nobody has this kit (F4-3200C16D-16GTZ), G.skill was never aware of the mistake, or it could have been a freak one-off programming mistake, since there are a few others verified with E-die on this kit?

Maybe I should get a B550 board for my 3700X to solve the C14S fitment issue, then put a 3300X in my current board so I can play with this old RAM kit some more on the side. And it visibly has the A2 PCB as well, which apparently the latest DRAM calc doesn't support despite it being the better PCB revision.


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## phill (May 14, 2020)

I think this might be the thread I'm needing!! 

So I've been messing about with the Ryzen's I have here..  I've yet to try my two 1700X's and a 2700 but I've been trying my 2700X and my 3900X with some what I'd class as some interesting results, mainly on my 3900X....

So short story version...
Kept hitting 75 to 80C or sometimes more when using without any all core boost and just leaving on auto..  Managed to do a few simple CPU tests with running WCG as my testing bench as it warms up the CPU nicely and contributes a little something so... win win 

So I've had the CPU for a while, left most at stock as I've just enjoyed it as it just boots, works and I can shut it down and it will boot up from cold, outstanding kit 

So I've gone from auto volts to 1.0vcore set in the bios.  I've been able to get a 4.20GHz boost, but when I've tried all cores with 4.20GHz, I've had to push 1.15vcore through the CPU, whilst the temps haven't been bad either I've till opted for the 1.0vcore option instead...  Has anyone had this issue before at all??  (I mean all core boost working on auto but not when it's set at the same volts??)

Screen shot as I think this helps better 






I should have grabbed it whilst it had done over 12 hours (damn OCD of mine...) but never mind...  I hope you can see that ok.. 

So another question is, what vcore reading would you trust??  What I've set in the bios?  What CPU-Z reads?  What HWInfo reads?  Or what CoreTemp reads??  Answers on a postcard please too.... 

The other twist was that the 3900X at auto settings was pulling about 280w from the wall full systems (no GPU load tho...)  When it's set to 1.00vcore, it's around the 150w marker....  I've tested it with CB R20, there's a bit of a points difference from 1.00vcore/4.20GHz reading to the 1.10vcore/4.00GHz+ reading...   Around 6000 points for the 1.00v setting and 7050 points for the 1.10vcore/4.00GHz setting....  I've recently updated the bios on my Asus Crosshair 8 Hero to 1201 (it was on 0605 I believe??) so a little out of date...  Originally did the testing on the original bios the board shipped with.  Was able to get the 3900X posting and in to Windows at 0.90vcore...  Have I hit the jackpot or something??

Would love some others opinions on this one 


On the 2700X it seems I can't set it lower than about 1.275vcore else it won't post...  Are those CPUs normally about this sort of voltage or do they/can they go down lower?   I see the motherboards LCD read out, gives it an error code of 8 I believe??  (Asus Crosshair 7 Hero board...)  Just trying to do the same thing as my 3900X..  they are both on air cooling which is not going to allow them to reach their max but I'm looking for a little more efficiency as well as they are crunching machines (the 3900X is my gaming rig as well...)  

Any sort of advice I'm all ears


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## Toothless (May 14, 2020)

Okay, had a little fun today.

So it's liking 4.5ghz. I dropped the core a bit and during a CPU-z run, it went down to 1.225v (set in BIOS) but that was all it could do. It also doesn't like 1.25 for normal usage.




(^During the test^)


The lowest it'll go is 1.275v under full load, and seems to give a big middle finger to any LLC changes and doesn't like going that low for all applications like P95. So I'm sticking with a set 1.35v with it going to 1.3v under full load. Was worth a shot.

Also it tells me to fuck off with ANY ram changes. I attempted going to 3400mhz with 1200mhz fabric clock and it wouldn't post at all. 3200/C16 and 1100 is the best there.

Side note: the naming for this one was based off the fact it was on an outdated BIOS. Veraltet seemed to hit the spot. (Volt for my Z97 since the core voltage was 1.45v on my 4790k w/ stock cooler, and Dualie is for the dual cpus.)


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## phill (May 14, 2020)

Are you on air @Toothless ?  I thought I might have seen that in a post I went past this morning (it was late and I was tired, my brain might not have been engaged lol )

I've got to try that Fabric clock, I think it's all stuck at Auto at the moment.  

I also had not much help with the Ryzen Master software, turns out, it wasn't doing much at all...  I'd stick to the bios for the overclocking, think it's the best way


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## tabascosauz (May 14, 2020)

@Toothless Half of 3200 is 1600, and half of 3400 is 1700...at 3400-1200 and 3200-1100 you're not even synced up 1:1. Inability to sync 1200 FCLK/UCLK is barely above JEDEC speeds and would be an instant QC fail for a Matisse CPU.

At those speeds, it's most definitely the RAM. It's always necessary to find out what sort of ICs you have under the heatspreaders, by opening up Thaiphoon. Without that info, you're getting nowhere. For everything except maybe B-die, you can't just take the freq up from 3200 without relaxing certain timings accordingly.

I'm guessing you have a run of the mill G.skill kit rated for 3200 16-18-18-38 @ 1.35V. ICs in those could be a lot of things.

@phill no, CPU-Z may tell you the manufacturer and whether it's single or dual rank, but not the actual IC. HWInfo will only tell you the current primary timings (eg 16-16-16-36-48-480-1T) and FCLK/UCLK/MCLK speed.


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## phill (May 14, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> @Toothless Half of 3200 is 1600, and half of 3400 is 1700...at 3400-1200 and 3200-1100 you're not even synced up 1:1. Synced 1200 FCLK/UCLK is barely above JEDEC speeds and would be an instant QC fail for a Matisse CPU.
> 
> At those speeds, it's most definitely the RAM. It's always necessary to find out what sort of ICs you have under the heatspreaders, by opening up Thaiphoon. Without that info, you're getting nowhere. For everything except maybe B-die, you can't just take the freq up from 3200 without relaxing certain timings accordingly.
> 
> I'm guessing you have a run of the mill G.skill kit rated for 3200 16-18-18-38 @ 1.35V. ICs in those could be a lot of things.


Could you get the info from CPU-Z or HWInfo @tabascosauz ??


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## TheLostSwede (May 14, 2020)

phill said:


> Could you get the info from CPU-Z or HWInfo @tabascosauz ??


No, you need this http://www.softnology.biz/


----------



## phill (May 14, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> No, you need this http://www.softnology.biz/


Thanks @TheLostSwede


----------



## Lorec (May 14, 2020)

Toothless said:


> Okay, had a little fun today.
> 
> So it's liking 4.5ghz. I dropped the core a bit and during a CPU-z run, it went down to 1.225v (set in BIOS) but that was all it could do. It also doesn't like 1.25 for normal usage.
> 
> ...


Whats up with those huge PPT, TDC and EDC values? Is that on PBO enabled? 
Did You change those values in bios?


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## Nordic (May 14, 2020)

heky said:


> Have you tried running a per CCD overclock? I run CCD0 @ 4.4 and CCD1 @ 4.2 with peak voltage set to 1.325v in Ryzen Master. Am running it like that for about a month now, really like the performance and the temps are lower also.


I have not tried that. I was thinking about trying to overclock each CCD individually to see what they can do individually.


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## Toothless (May 14, 2020)

@phill NH-D15

@tabascosauz 3400 and 1200 was set in the bios. Instant nope. 

@Lorec PBO off, those all were set to auto


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## tabascosauz (May 14, 2020)

Lorec said:


> Whats up with those huge PPT, TDC and EDC values? Is that on PBO enabled?
> Did You change those values in bios?



Those are the Ryzen Master limits. When you manual OC in RM, the gloves come off and those are basically the limits. Basically, much less of a safety net than PBO would provide.

Does work with IF properly set to 1600? I find it hard to believe that the Auto setting on an X570 board for 3200 RAM is not IF 1600. Where is your fabric clock setting located, under memory section?


----------



## Nordic (May 14, 2020)

You can set PPT, TDC, and EDC much higher via the bios also.


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## tabascosauz (May 14, 2020)

Nordic said:


> You can set PPT, TDC, and EDC much higher via the bios also.



The difference there being that PPT, TDC and EDC are usually found under the PBO menu. PBO is still utilizing the stock boost mechanisms, just with higher ceilings, so setting insanely high limits for those three often makes zero difference. Manual OC, however, has no safety limits with regards to voltage and temperature (apart from the usual Tjunction).


----------



## heky (May 14, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> The difference there being that PPT, TDC and EDC are usually found under the PBO menu. PBO is still utilizing the stock boost mechanisms, just with higher ceilings, so setting insanely high limits for those three often makes zero difference. Manual OC, however, has no safety limits with regards to voltage and temperature (apart from the usual Tjunction).


Might be, but i just dont see the problem of me setting a max voltage of 1.325v (which is only being used under really low loads), since the voltage goes down as it should under load! The manual oc also lowered the temps for me and upped the performance. So what safety limit is not there anymore that can hurt my chip the way i run it now?


----------



## tabascosauz (May 14, 2020)

heky said:


> Might be, but i just dont see the problem of me setting a max voltage of 1.325v (which is only being used under really low loads), since the voltage goes down as it should under load! The manual oc also lowered the temps for me and upped the performance. So what safety limit is not there anymore that can hurt my chip the way i run it now?



I didn't say anything about Vcore. I was talking about PPT/EDC/TDC. There's plenty of discussion on FIT. Stilt's initial estimate of a 1.325V max safe static voltage turned out not to be the case when some owners took his advice and ended up with degraded silicon a few months later. Others have allegedly been running 1.4V all core and suffering no ill effects, though usually under water. Anyhow, there's no point getting into all of this again.

How much is Vcore "dropping"? If it's only dropping by 0.025-0.05V, that's just stock LLC vdroop behaviour.


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## heky (May 14, 2020)

How much the voltage drops depends on the load. For example under CB R20 its 1.244v, AIDA64 FPU its 1.232v and under Prime95 smallFFTs its 1.213v.

Edit: Comparing the stock settings, without PBO, just plain stock settings, the voltage pushed for a CB 20R allcore load is 1.35v!!!!! It creates much more heat and lower scores! So i just dont get the reasoning behind why a stock chip, that gets 1.35v under CB R20 is safer, than my chip with a maximum voltage of 1.325v set in Ryzen Master that gets 1.244v under CB R20, runs cooler and gets better scores!


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## tabascosauz (May 14, 2020)

heky said:


> How much the voltage drops depends on the load. For example under CB R20 its 1.244v, AIDA64 FPU its 1.232v and under Prime95 smallFFTs its 1.213v.



Okay, I see what you mean. AMD's replaced the set voltage box in RM with "peak voltage" instead. Doing so still appears to set exactly that voltage, however. Ryzen Master reports a varying idle voltage, but everything else just reports that manual voltage. Fire up P95 and it's just exactly that many volts at load. I'm not seeing any boosting going on with the manual OC setting.


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## heky (May 14, 2020)

Yeah, but the thing is the voltage under Prime95 load can not be the "peak voltage" reported by Ryzen Master. The power draw (A) and the reported Wattage dont add up. Also the temps are lower, so that also doesnt add up. I read the voltage that HWInfo64 reports under SVI2 TFN and the IR35201 WRM controller shows the same values under different loads i wrote in the post above (1.213v Prime95). The temps also confirm that the voltage under load gets droped or else the temps would be much much higher.


----------



## tabascosauz (May 14, 2020)

heky said:


> Yeah, but the thing is the voltage under Prime95 load can not be the "peak voltage" reported by Ryzen Master. The power draw (A) and the reported Wattage dont add up. Also the temps are lower, so that also doesnt add up. I read the voltage that HWInfo64 reports under SVI2 TFN and the IR35201 WRM controller shows the same values under different loads i wrote in the post above (1.213v Prime95). The temps also confirm that the voltage under load gets droped or else the temps would be much much higher.



Are you on RM 2.2.0.1543? On the main screen there's also an Average Core Voltage field, which is a bit like HWInfo's "effective" voltage. At idle, the Average is fluctuating well below 1.0V like it is normally, but as soon as I run P95 it comes up and matches whatever I've set as Peak Voltage. I haven't seen any kind of voltage dropping at load.

Also, I'm not 100% sure, but I can recall reading that EDC is just a limit, not a real-time current reading. I'll have to double check that. Using either RM's Average reading or HWInfo's SVI2 value, multiplying that by the Output from the CPU side of the IR35201 is roughly what CPU Power is reporting in HWInfo.

However, when I do test fixed clocks, including my stable 4.0/1.2V setting, I am seeing what you describe. SVI2, RM and IR35201 all report the same Vcore, but temps are lower, and IR35201 output amps x Vcore =! RM's stated wattage. On the other hand, they do add up to the power draw in HWInfo. So it may just be an RM thing.


----------



## Nordic (May 15, 2020)

What is a good ram set to get for ryzen? Given that I have such a crappy ram set, it is something I keep thinking about upgrading even though what I have gives okay performance.

This is what I have now. 3600mhz Cas 18 XMP


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## TheLostSwede (May 15, 2020)

Nordic said:


> What is a good ram set to get for ryzen? Given that I have such a crappy ram set, it is something I keep thinking about upgrading even though what I have gives okay performance.
> 
> This is what I have now. 3600mhz Cas 18 XMP


I can only recommend what I have, although a few others here have gotten them as well.
Hard to beat for the price. Not going to say it's the best memory out there, as it's far from it, but Ryzen 3000 CPUs seems to be happy with it.





						Viper Steel DDR4 Performance Memory | Best RAM For Gaming
					

Patriot Memory’s Viper Steel memory modules are designed with true performance in mind. Built for the latest Intel® and AMD™ platforms. Shop today.




					viper.patriotmemory.com
				




This is with 4x 8GB.


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## tabascosauz (May 16, 2020)

Nordic said:


> What is a good ram set to get for ryzen? Given that I have such a crappy ram set, it is something I keep thinking about upgrading even though what I have gives okay performance.
> 
> This is what I have now. 3600mhz Cas 18 XMP



It's already Rev.E, one of the top ICs for Ryzen, easily on par with CJR. Only concern is quality and consistency as with every other IC put in Vengeance, because it's cheap Corsair. How about plugging in some DRAM calc profiles to see what it can do? I don't know if your sticks are single- or dual-rank.



Aside from Team, BZ has a new video up with a large selection of 16/32/64GB Crucial kits. Higher end Crucial kits with good freq/timings XMP profiles will probably be Rev.E, because Crucial is Micron, and Rev.E is Micron's best IC. But that's only if you've actually tested your current kit and found that it actually sucks ass, because if not, you're just paying more for what you already have. Albeit with probably better binning. You never know until you try.

Then there's G.Skill Trident Z / RGB / Neo kits, whatever they might be called, as long as they're rated for 16-19-19-39 @ 3600. CJR and DJR. All of these kits usually have good Ryzen compatibility.


----------



## Nordic (May 16, 2020)

@tabascosauz I apologize if you remember this conversation, but I am going to refer you to my posts in this thread from last month. We determined that my memory does seem to be the issue. https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/ryzen-owners-zen-garden.231658/page-85#post-4247124


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 16, 2020)

Nordic said:


> @tabascosauz I apologize if you remember this conversation, but I am going to refer you to my posts in this thread from last month. We determined that my memory does seem to be the issue. https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/ryzen-owners-zen-garden.231658/page-85#post-4247124


Oh wow, the latencies you're getting are indeed poop. No idea what's going on there. Any chance your IF is locked to some super slow speed or 1:2 mode by mistake? It's the only thing that makes sense for latencies that bad.


----------



## Nordic (May 16, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Oh wow, the latencies you're getting are indeed poop. No idea what's going on there. Any chance your IF is locked to some super slow speed or 1:2 mode by mistake? It's the only thing that makes sense for latencies that bad.


It appears not. I am able to boot with 1833mhz FCLK. My memory won't do that though.

Edit: Since those posts last month, I discovered that I can run my memory at XMP but only with PBO off. At XMP settings I get 3600mhz Cas 18, Best time: 108.5, Random Latency: 78.14.


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## TheLostSwede (May 16, 2020)

Nordic said:


> It appears not. I am able to boot with 1833mhz FCLK. My memory won't do that though.


Right, it just seems like there's some setting holding you back more than anything else. What about tRFC?
It'll be quite high on Micron based DIMMs from what I've seen though, like 570-ish something.  But it still doesn't explain the super high latencies.
Maybe try something stupid before you splash out on new RAM, do a hardware CMOS reset, i.e. use the board jumper/pins/button and then set everything up again to see if somehow some old settings got retained when you updated the UEFI. It can happen, even though it's rare and shouldn't happen.



Nordic said:


> Edit: Since those posts last month, I discovered that I can run my memory at XMP but only with PBO off. At XMP settings I get 3600mhz Cas 18, Best time: 108.5, Random Latency: 78.14.


That's still high, you should be lower, even with that high CAS latency. Not by much, but at least 4-5ns better.


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## tabascosauz (May 16, 2020)

Nordic said:


> @tabascosauz I apologize if you remember this conversation, but I am going to refer you to my posts in this thread from last month. We determined that my memory does seem to be the issue. https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/ryzen-owners-zen-garden.231658/page-85#post-4247124



Sorry bout that, lots of super long threads floating around on here. Aside from 1:1 (which, on a side note, if you're ever messing with a lot of different freq/timings profiles, easiest way to check it's 1:1 is RM, which has a Coupled Mode field that shows ON or OFF), only other thing I can think of is something about timings.

I was fiddling with some RAM settings after the new profiles in DRAM calc 1.7.2 came out, and in particular I can recall one instance where I tried 3200 CL14 on my DJR kit, on which I usually run 3600 CL16 and are rated for 3600 CL17. I think the timings were 14-17-14-17-32-419-1T @ 3200. AIDA results were about right on the money in terms of bandwidth, but with a latency of 72.5ns, which seemed really odd considering my E-die-masquerading-as-D-die kit does 16-16-16-36 @ 3200 for 72.0ns. I'm thinking that CL14 should at _least _be under 70ns, even if it's not 14-14-14 B-die, but evidently AIDA had other plans.

Which timings are you changing when you try different freq/CL combinations? I used to put all the subtimings I could from DRAM calc recommendations, but now I just leave most of them apart from the main timings (tCL, tRCD, tRP, tRAS, tRC, tRFC, command rate) on what the XMP is. And even though the new 3600/16 fast profile uses looser main timings, it's still faster than the old profile with all custom timings.

Just a thought, leaving XMP subtimings could be better suited to your particular sticks, or they might not be. Yours is like a half step below in CAS, mine have XMP at 17 (albeit sharing most timings with CL16 G.skill kits) so not too far off.

Oh make sure you have Power Down Mode off. By some accounts it can really wreak havoc on latency in short memory benchmarks. Gigabyte hides it in the AMD Overclocking menu instead of beside Gear Down Mode in the regular memory, but Asus may be different.



TheLostSwede said:


> Right, it just seems like there's some setting holding you back more than anything else. What about tRFC?
> It'll be quite high on Micron based DIMMs from what I've seen though, like 570-ish something.  But it still doesn't explain the super high latencies.
> Maybe try something stupid before you splash out on new RAM, do a hardware CMOS reset, i.e. use the board jumper/pins/button and then set everything up again to see if somehow some old settings got retained when you updated the UEFI. It can happen, even though it's rare and shouldn't happen.
> 
> That's still high, you should be lower, even with that high CAS latency. Not by much, but at least 4-5ns better.



Man, these threads with latency issues lately have confused the hell out of me. Only common denominator seems to be that they're Corsair sticks. 80ns+ on any 3000 CPU while at 1:1 3200/16 or equivalent shouldn't be possible.

I feel like Rev.E might be a bit more freq-focused than our CJR and DJR are with their high tRFC, and seem to be the perfect candidate for frequency overclocking. But I'm starting to think that maybe some of the timings don't like one another.


----------



## AsRock (May 16, 2020)

I only picked up the Patriot 3200 2x16GB set but they even run Cas 16 1800\3600@1.35v ( Hynix CJR), so yeah if i was in the market for faster ram i would be surly concidering the Patriot ram right now.


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## Nordic (May 16, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Right, it just seems like there's some setting holding you back more than anything else. What about tRFC?
> It'll be quite high on Micron based DIMMs from what I've seen though, like 570-ish something.  But it still doesn't explain the super high latencies.
> 
> Maybe try something stupid before you splash out on new RAM, do a hardware CMOS reset, i.e. use the board jumper/pins/button and then set everything up again to see if somehow some old settings got retained when you updated the UEFI. It can happen, even though it's rare and shouldn't happen.
> ...


I reset the settings with the jumpers on the motherboard nearly every time I try to mess with memory settings. I have tried on two different motherboards, both getting similar latency. I set tRFC to what the Ryzen Dram Calc tells me to set it to.



tabascosauz said:


> Aside from 1:1 (which, on a side note, if you're ever messing with a lot of different freq/timings profiles, easiest way to check it's 1:1 is RM, which has a Coupled Mode field that shows ON or OFF), only other thing I can think of is something about timings.


Except for the one time I tested how high I could push FCLK in uncoupled, I have ran FCLK coupled every time.



tabascosauz said:


> Which timings are you changing when you try different freq/CL combinations? I used to put all the subtimings I could from DRAM calc recommendations, but now I just leave most of them apart from the main timings (tCL, tRCD, tRP, tRAS, tRC, tRFC, command rate) on what the XMP is. And even though the new 3600/16 fast profile uses looser main timings, it's still faster than the old profile with all custom timings.


If I can find the setting in my bios, I set it to what Ryzen dram calculator tells me to set it to.



tabascosauz said:


> Oh make sure you have Power Down Mode off. By some accounts it can really wreak havoc on latency in short memory benchmarks. Gigabyte hides it in the AMD Overclocking menu instead of beside Gear Down Mode in the regular memory, but Asus may be different.


I will try this.
EDIT: I am running default bios except for XMP enabled and PBO disabled. This has been stable for weeks. I only changed power down mode from auto to disabled and it failed to post.




tabascosauz said:


> Man, these threads with latency issues lately have confused the hell out of me. Only common denominator seems to be that they're Corsair sticks. 80ns+ on any 3000 CPU while at 1:1 3200/16 or equivalent shouldn't be possible.


Could it be that I am running 4 memory sticks instead of two?


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## tabascosauz (May 16, 2020)

@Nordic it really shouldn't affect your latency by that much on its own. Surprisingly, there is very little documentation on the latencies of 4 sticks vs 2, but I've never heard of a latency penalty for 4 sticks before. It is true that the X470 Taichi is a better board for 4 sticks because of T-topology, but the topology debate strictly only affects raw frequency.

But if the XMP profile is complete ass and Corsair really just inputted random large-ass numbers into the timings, I can see a couple nanoseconds coming out of that. Questionable 3200/16 kits with timings like 16-18-18-38 already can come in at up to 75-76ns, so add even worse-optimized subtimings, and 1-2ns for being a 3900X, and you end up in the 80s.


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## Nordic (May 16, 2020)

Is it normal to not be able to boot with Power Down mode disabled?


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## Caring1 (May 16, 2020)

Nordic said:


> Is it normal to not be able to boot with Power Down mode disabled?


My Dram Calc settings show power down as disabled.


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## Athlonite (May 16, 2020)

Nordic said:


> Is it normal to not be able to boot with Power Down mode disabled?



Yup well atleast mine don't use it


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## tabascosauz (May 16, 2020)

Nordic said:


> Is it normal to not be able to boot with Power Down mode disabled?



Uh, no? Never has stopped my system from POSTing before. It just prevents the DDR4 from stepping down to a lower power level in idle. I would usually think the opposite to be true, that Power Down enabled creates instability.

Is that the only thing you changed in that bootup, or were there other memory settings changed? My system usually resets its own CMOS after 3 failed memory training attempts, but there are certain subtimings that it just cannot do, and it'll end up stuck at the logo screen or on a black screen so I'll have to bridge the jumper manually.


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## Nordic (May 16, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Uh, no? Never has stopped my system from POSTing before. It just prevents the DDR4 from stepping down to a lower power level in idle. I would usually think the opposite to be true, that Power Down enabled creates instability.
> 
> Is that the only thing you changed in that bootup, or were there other memory settings changed? My system usually resets its own CMOS after 3 failed memory training attempts, but there are certain subtimings that it just cannot do, and it'll end up stuck at the logo screen or on a black screen so I'll have to bridge the jumper manually.


It won't even post if I change nothing else but power down mode.


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## tabascosauz (May 16, 2020)

Nordic said:


> It won't even post if I change nothing else but power down mode.



That sucks. I don't know what else to say, man. I don't think Power Down Mode preventing POST is a common occurrence, though you're probably right, that might honestly just reflect on the piss poor quality of the ICs. You're on 1407 BIOS, yeah?

The issue here being that Power Down Mode, in the worst case scenario, can be responsible for up to around 5ns of latency on its own. Disable PDM and bam, 5ns gone in tests, just like that. I'm guessing you really are going to be looking at one of those Patriot or G.skill kits.


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## dyonoctis (May 16, 2020)

I know that the boost issue of zen 2 is supposed to be fixed since 1.0.0.3 ABBA, so I'm wondering if I'm just unfortunate with the silicone lottery. My 1700x could boost to 3.9 Ghz (xfr 100 mhz above ref) in single core. Meanwhile my 3700x is @ 4.3Ghz at best, so no xfr there. My all core boost is at 4Ghz.


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## TheLostSwede (May 16, 2020)

Nordic said:


> I reset the settings with the jumpers on the motherboard nearly every time I try to mess with memory settings. I have tried on two different motherboards, both getting similar latency. I set tRFC to what the Ryzen Dram Calc tells me to set it to.
> 
> Could it be that I am running 4 memory sticks instead of two?


Wow, you really seem to have some turd memory, as you've clearly done what you can do. Asus seems like to name things very differently, but if you've covered the basic settings, it should still be fine.
I gained 0.9ns latency at first, going from two to four modules, but this improved to 0.7ns with later AGESA/UEFI updates, so that's not it.



dyonoctis said:


> I know that the boost issue of zen 2 is supposed to be fixed since 1.0.0.3 ABBA, so I'm wondering if I'm just unfortunate with the silicone lottery. My 1700x could boost to 3.9 Ghz (xfr 100 mhz above ref) in single core. Meanwhile my 3700x is @ 4.3Ghz at best, so no xfr there. My all core boost is at 4Ghz.


It's possible that your motherboard holding you back, as it's also a matter of how much power the CPU can draw.
Still, you have six CPU power phases on that board, so it shouldn't be the issue. Could also be the AGES/UEFI implementation that limits things, since technically the 300-series of chipsets, outside of the X370 never had AMD's blessing.
I had similar issues with early AGESA/UEFI implementations even on my X570 board, with peak boost being 100-150MHz below the up to boost speed. Now I boost 50-75MHz above that, but it took quite some time to get there, in terms of AGESA/UEFI updates.
I presume you're on UEFI 5406 with AGESA 1.0.0.4 B?


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## Bronan (May 16, 2020)

Nordic said:


> Could it be that I am running 4 memory sticks instead of two?


Yes it does in my long time hunting for more memory in my systems i have had hundreds of sets with 4 banks memory failing todo higher clocks and all ended up having timings issues or won't even boot at all.
Overclocking wise its better to buy a set of 2 sticks instead of 4 if you want to get them to run at higher speeds, by that i mean even the XMP profiles fail to run them properly at the advertised speeds.
Hell many hundreds of the sets did not boot at all or could not even run stable on XMP setting at all
I actually gave up after Corsair admitted that they never had so much issues, the weirdest of it all is that i had that on EVERY top brand motherboard available on the market.
The only speeds i got working without issues was 2133 and 2400 even with sets which was advertised to run at 3200 or much higher.
So my advise switch to 2 bank set and be released to finally run them error free without insane problems.
BTW never believe the shops selling them, because they allways say that it can be done.
The only sets which did run well are the small 1 and 2 Gb ones which are absolutely way too small for usage on a modern system.
So even though there are many new faster products released you often should stick with 2 banks unless your willing to run them at 2133 or 2400.
They 4 sets suffer all from latency problems if ran at higher speeds.
If you look at the top overclockers you see them often use single  512 mb or 1 gb sticks to get the highest possible overclocks for the same reasons.


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## TheLostSwede (May 16, 2020)

Bronan said:


> Yes it does in my long time hunting for more memory in my systems i have had hundreds of sets with 4 banks memory failing todo higher clocks and all ended up having timings issues or won't even boot at all.
> Overclocking wise its better to buy a set of 2 sticks instead of 4 if you want to get them to run at higher speeds, by that i mean even the XMP profiles fail to run them properly at the advertised speeds.
> Hell many hundreds of the sets did not boot at all or could not even run stable on XMP setting at all
> I actually gave up after Corsair admitted that they never had so much issues, the weirdest of it all is that i had that on EVERY top brand motherboard available on the market.
> ...


On Intel or AMD? As don't assume what is the case on Intel systems, is the case on Ryzen, even less so Ryzen 3000.
I suggest you read this article, if nothing else. I will admit I was very sceptical, but my own setup shows that four DIMMs have no noticeable downsides whatsoever.








						Ryzen Above: Best Memory Settings for AMD's 3000 CPUs, Tested
					

Is Ryzen 3000 optimized for DDR4-3200? What if we want more? We examine everything from frequency to rank count to nail down optimal settings.




					www.tomshardware.com
				




I run 4x 8GB at 3800MHz with decent timings. 100% stable for months, no matter what I have thrown at it.














						AMD Ryzen 7 3800X @ 4199.02 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

[33u9si] Validated Dump by OVERLORD-MK-MXV (2019-11-20 09:33:26) - MB: Gigabyte X570 AORUS MASTER - RAM: 32768 MB




					valid.x86.fr
				




And dude, catch up with the times will you. No overclocker users those kind of tiny modules any more, as they're in fact not even available.
You're commenting on something using outdated information that doesn't help anyone.








						Micron Memory Sets New DDR4 Overclocking World Record
					

Ballistix, Micron's global brand of high-performance gaming memory, has set a new overclocking world record for the fastest DDR4 memory frequency at 6024 MT/s. Leveraging performance-tuned Micron die and the innovation behind the new Ballistix Elite 4000 memory, the ASUS motherboard R&D team set...




					www.techpowerup.com
				











						G.SKILL DDR4 Memory Achieves DDR4-5886 and 23 Overclocking Records
					

G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd., the world's leading manufacturer of extreme performance memory and gaming peripherals, is excited to announce that 23 overclocking records in various benchmark categories were broken during the Computex 2019 time frame, including the world record for...




					www.techpowerup.com
				











						MSI Announces DDR4 Memory Overclocking World Record @ 5902 MHz on MPG Z390I GAMING EDGE AC Motherboard
					

MSI today announced that their in-house overclocker Kovan Yang has broken the world overclocking record for DDR4 memory. The record-breaking feat was achieved with a pair of HyperX Predator DDR4 memory modules paired with MSI's MPG Z390I GAMING EDGE AC motherboard, with a little help from liquid...




					www.techpowerup.com


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## Bronan (May 16, 2020)

lol
Those are all inhouse overclockers having access to toys which never come available for normal buyers at all.
I have just installed a new set for a friend with a x570 motherboard and again had issues, however after consulting Corsair we got a new set send to his address which actually works.


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## TheLostSwede (May 16, 2020)

Bronan said:


> lol
> Those are all inhouse overclockers having access to toys which never come available for normal buyers at all.
> I have just installed a new set for a friend with a x570 motherboard and again had issues, however after consulting Corsair we got a new set send to his address which actually works.


So stop buying Corsair RAM. LPX modules have time and time again been proven not to work well with Ryzen.

And with regards to overclockers, I know a lot of the "pro" guys and yes, they have the chance to test a lot of kit, but seriously, most of it is just off a production line, just like what you and I buy. They might have a chance to test 200 kits or 200 CPUs and pick the best of the best out of that, but technically we have a chance to get as good hardware, although we're less likely to win the silicon lottery, since we can't afford to buy 200 units and test them until we find the very best parts.

What we most likely can't do, is mods like this. I know my soldering skills aren't up to it, but then again, this guy had one of the engineers do it for him...
It allowed him to hit the  XMP 5000MHz settings of his RAM kit, due to the USB ports going flaky. That's an Intel Z490 board btw, if anyone was wondering.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 16, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> So stop buying Corsair RAM. LPX modules have time and time again been proven not to work well with Ryzen.


Funny thing is I have used mostly vengeance pro RGB because I have to after trying gigabyte RGB auris and seeing the RGB nightmare rainbow for weeks before one stick died.
My rigs big on Corsair RGB so I'm stuck with their memory (Corsair) but because I have used four sets now it is literally the last manufacturer I would recommend.
On a fair few customer PC I went with patriot and it's way way easier to get it working without issues.
Hence why I recommend it.


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## heky (May 16, 2020)

Bronan said:


> lol
> Those are all inhouse overclockers having access to toys which never come available for normal buyers at all.
> I have just installed a new set for a friend with a x570 motherboard and again had issues, however after consulting Corsair we got a new set send to his address which actually works.


LOL, where are you getting this BS from? I have built at least 10 Ryzen 3000 rigs with 4x8Gb dimms and had ZERO issues running at least 3600MT/s. Mostly MSI motherboards, but a couple ASUS too.
And here is mine, jus for the lulz:



And that is not even trying, at 1.4v


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## tabascosauz (May 16, 2020)

For everyone who misses having a program that lists all your timing information in one place, since Ryzen Timing Checker only supports Summit and Pinnacle CPU families, there's this lightweight utility that essentially continues in that role called ZenTimings. Github for 1.0.4: https://github.com/irusanov/ZenTimings/releases

Saves you the trouble of digging through Ryzen Master or DRAM calc's cluttered interfaces just to find your timings. What it looks like:


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## Nordic (May 16, 2020)

I noticed you are all using Aida64 to test memory latency. I have been using Ryzen Dram Calculator. I just updated from 1.6.x to 1.7.3 and my memory latency is much improved. Maybe the problem all along is what I am using to bench. The following is from Ryzen Dram Calculator 1.7.3 at my XMP speeds.





I am going to download Aida64 and bench with that too.

EDIT:


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## tabascosauz (May 16, 2020)

Nordic said:


> I noticed you are all using Aida64 to test memory latency. I have been using Ryzen Dram Calculator. I just updated from 1.6.x to 1.7.3 and my memory latency is much improved. Maybe the problem all along is what I am using to bench. The following is from Ryzen Dram Calculator 1.7.3 at my XMP speeds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's quite an old version you had there. The custom and random numbers in 1.7.3 look ballpark alright for what I'm guessing is CL16? RDC's membench is a headache when it comes to comparing to other people's results, because it allows you to specify the test size which throws comparisons out the window, especially with single-chiplet SKUs having half the write speed. But it works perfectly fine for testing one's own computer.


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## Nordic (May 16, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> That's quite an old version you had there. The custom and random numbers in 1.7.3 look ballpark alright for what I'm guessing is CL16? RDC's membench is a headache when it comes to comparing to other people's results, because it allows you to specify the test size which throws comparisons out the window. But it works perfectly fine for testing one's own computer.


Check my edit. I added the AIDA benchmark. That is my XMP settings for 3600mhz Cas18.


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## TheLostSwede (May 16, 2020)

Nordic said:


> Check my edit. I added the AIDA benchmark. That is my XMP settings for 3600mhz Cas18.


For CAS 18 that looks fine.


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## tabascosauz (May 16, 2020)

Nordic said:


> Check my edit. I added the AIDA benchmark. That is my XMP settings for 3600mhz Cas18.



That's right on the money for 3200/16 and 3600/18. I'm not sure that upgrade would be worth it after all, depending on how expensive the kits are.


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## Nordic (May 16, 2020)

Alright. I am going to try these settings out.


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## Nordic (May 18, 2020)

I have learned that I can overclock the DRAM or I can have my DRAM and FCLK coupled.
This seems to be the best I can do outside of XMP.





X570 and Ryzen is the most frustrating platform I have ever worked with. All week last week I was running the CPU at stock with PBO off and my memory at XMP speeds. Now I can't even boot at XMP speeds again. The inconsistency is horribly frustrating.


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## tabascosauz (May 20, 2020)

@Nordic chasing memory instabilities on Ryzen is extremely frustrating. More times than I can count, I've been led to believe that my timings are stable through all the usual benchmarks and weeks or months of heavy usage and gaming, only to run into a successive series of crashes, errors and BSODs entirely out of the blue with nothing having changed.

When my DDR3 kits were unstable, they always let me know right away and would not stop pestering me until I fixed the problem(s).

On a side note, working manually on the subtimings gained me no visible latency advantage in AIDA and only a bit of bandwidth, but the membench results speak for themselves:


They're not particularly spectacular if you take a look at the online submission list, but I've never been below 125-130 seconds in any of the CL16 or CL17 profiles I've tried in the past; I say that counts as a very small win. Also, I'm pretty sure that baseline is set with B-die.


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## TheLostSwede (May 20, 2020)

Nordic said:


> I have learned that I can overclock the DRAM or I can have my DRAM and FCLK coupled.
> This seems to be the best I can do outside of XMP.
> 
> 
> ...



Please don't blame AMD, blame your RAM. Corsair LPX and Ryzen is just a combination made in hell. You're going to tear out your hair with that RAM. 
Since AGESA 1.0.0.3 ABBA I have had zero issues and things have only improved with the 1.0.0.4 releases. I don't have QVL RAM and in fact, I just took a chance when I bought the modules I have, even more so when I got a second set. Yet they run fine at 3800MHz at CAS 16.


----------



## Nordic (May 20, 2020)

I have never experienced such inconsistentency with hardware before.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 20, 2020)

Nordic said:


> I have never experienced such inconsistentency with hardware before.


I will fully admit that for the first three months or so, until AGESA 1.0.0.3 ABBA came out, the platform was unstable as anything. After that, I have had exactly zero issues, my system works better than advertised on every regards, my CPU boosts higher than the advertised max boost, my RAM purrs at 3800MHz CAS 16, not had a BSOD, random lockup/reboot or anything else weird happen.

However, you have what is most likely the worst possible RAM for your system and you're far from the only one having problem with Corsair LPX modules on a Ryzen rig. If you can afford it, swap them out for something else, it'll save you a lot of headache.
Either Samsung B-dies or Hynix CJR/DJR seems to be the way to go, although newer Micron ICs seems to be ok as well, if a bit higher latency overall.


----------



## Nordic (May 20, 2020)

In another month or two I may consider buying Gskill Neo or that Patriot memory as recommended here.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 20, 2020)

Nordic said:


> In another month or two I may consider buying Gskill Neo or that Patriot memory as recommended here.


It sucks having the "wrong" RAM and I know, as I had Corsair LPX modules with my Ryzen 7 1700 and could never get them to work quite right either. Even two years in, they wouldn't go over 3000MHz and it was a 3200MHz kit. That might've been partially AMD's fault, as the memory controller wasn't great on first gen Ryzen CPUs. However, that RAM had exactly the same issue with my Ryzen 7 3800X and my system was crashing all over the place when I tried using that RAM in my new build. As such, I took a wild chance on the Patriot Viper modules and it paid off big time. Even though I could only run them at 3200MHz on the first couple of UEFI releases, 3600 soon worked and then more, despite it being a 3600MHz kit.

Yes, AMD should've done more testing before launching their platforms, but I guess when you have limited capital, you also have to get the product out there. Based on my working experience, most companies push the product out and fix the "software" later, even if the software is the product...


----------



## harm9963 (May 21, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> @Nordic chasing memory instabilities on Ryzen is extremely frustrating. More times than I can count, I've been led to believe that my timings are stable through all the usual benchmarks and weeks or months of heavy usage and gaming, only to run into a successive series of crashes, errors and BSODs entirely out of the blue with nothing having changed.
> 
> When my DDR3 kits were unstable, they always let me know right away and would not stop pestering me until I fixed the problem(s).
> 
> ...


Try default MEMbench ,thank you.


----------



## tabascosauz (May 21, 2020)

harm9963 said:


> Try default MEMbench ,thank you.



 

Comparing to other Matisse chips in the submission table, more or less where it should be. Slower stuff slower, faster stuff faster. Almost identical results to a 3800X with 3600 16-16-16-32 B-die, but not the same version of membench, so not comparable.


----------



## heky (May 21, 2020)

Guess i beat the reference by just a little. Did 2 runs, first was 101.26 second 101.51.


----------



## Lorec (May 21, 2020)

Just had a random crash.
Literally, my screens went black in a blink of an eye.
No BSODs. Nothing.
I cleared CMOS and let it cooldown.
It boot right back up and it works.

but damn that gave me a scare!
I can understand unstable overclocks but Im running base speed currently!
DOSP, PBO - disabled, CPB -disabled, rest is Auto.
I was playing Call of Duty Warzone, temps were under 60C
EDIT: it was full on Warzones fault


----------



## Kanan (May 25, 2020)

Bought Ryzen 3700X few weeks ago. Works pretty good, I have used PBO on max power settings, it got another 500 MHz in Prime 95 small fft and generally up to 5% extra performance in any CPU benchmark. I also tuned my ram from 3600 to 3800, the Infinity Fabric had no problem with it! Later i retuned the ram to 3600 and improved timings, that's what I'm using now, works pretty well. CPU is fast as fuck, but if i needed more performance for future games I could tune RAM further to improve performance. Yeah, pretty happy! Overclocking is annoying anyway, this CPU will never be unstable because it overclocks itself and manages itself. PBO is kinda, the best thing ever, IMO.


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## Nordic (May 25, 2020)

Kanan said:


> Bought Ryzen 3700X few weeks ago. Works pretty good, I have used PBO on max power settings, it got another 500 MHz in Prime 95 small fft and generally up to 5% extra performance in any CPU benchmark. I also tuned my ram from 3600 to 3800, the Infinity Fabric had no problem with it! Later i retuned the ram to 3600 and improved timings, that's what I'm using now, works pretty well. CPU is fast as fuck, but if i needed more performance for future games I could tune RAM further to improve performance. Yeah, pretty happy! Overclocking is annoying anyway, this CPU will never be unstable because it overclocks itself and manages itself. PBO is kinda, the best thing ever, IMO.


If you haven't already, make sure you download the latest chipset drivers from AMDs website. You should also look into at: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/1usmus-custom-power-plan-for-ryzen-3000-zen-2-processors/


----------



## Kanan (May 25, 2020)

Nordic said:


> If you haven't already, make sure you download the latest chipset drivers from AMDs website. You should also look into at: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/1usmus-custom-power-plan-for-ryzen-3000-zen-2-processors/


Thanks I'll look into it!


----------



## GoldenX (May 26, 2020)

Created a bit of a monster. Got the original AM3 Wraith and swapped the fan with the stock one on the Wraith Spire (the solid aluminium block one, not the cool vapour chamber one). Basically a poor's man Wraith MAX. PBO now hits 4000-4050MHz on its own, instead of 3850-3900.


----------



## tabascosauz (May 29, 2020)

Finally broke 5000 on 3700X with the new cooler. No manual overclocking involved, just normal voltages plus PBO, +7 PPT, -7 EDC, other PBO settings default. Clocks were around 41.25x, which is about the same as with the U9S in this config, but I guess the poor lil U9S was getting too hot to sustain those clocks to the end of the bench. Mine definitely isn't a golden chip so I'm happy with the result and will just go back to stock. 

Stock already gets to 4980 with the new cooler, no sense in running this daily to gain 21pts.


----------



## Kanan (May 29, 2020)

New windows upgrade is allegedly boosting Ryzen performance, I'm curious if this will be true.


----------



## NoJuan999 (May 29, 2020)

Kanan said:


> New windows upgrade is allegedly boosting Ryzen performance, I'm curious if this will be true.


Do you have any links to this info, I'd be curious as to what exact Windows version is being discussed.


----------



## Kanan (May 29, 2020)

NoJuan999 said:


> Do you have any links to this info, I'd be curious as to what exact Windows version is being discussed.




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/gslxia

please take with a grain of salt.


----------



## dark2099 (Jun 1, 2020)

So all my wonderful TPU friends, I need a bit of help. Old pc took a shit a week ago, so grabbed a 3900x. Had to get a AM4 mounting kit for my Corsair H115i. Well set it up the other day, and the temps were worse than stock cooler. Now a while back I had swapped the fans out for something quieter, that I thought were better (never properly tested, but on my Intel rig at the time, was ok). After some fiddling with the help of @sneekypeet, and swapping the Corsair out for the ID-Cooling Chromaflow 240 I had purchased for another rig, temps were better on the Chromaflow. So sneeky and I gave a guess it was the fans. Well here we are a few days later and I got what I hoped were better fans for the Corsair, but after setting it up again with the new fans (even with the volts dropped and fans maxed), still running hotter than the stock cooler. So here I sit in need of a new AIO for this puppy. For those going to suggest just using the Chromaflow, that has to go on the rig it was bought for as that is Intel s775. Thanks!


----------



## heky (Jun 1, 2020)

Hm...if the cpu temp is really worse than with the stock cooler, i would say it's either a bad/wrong (have you checked the contact between the coldplate and cpu)  mount or the unit is faulty. There is little to no chance a 280 AIO performs worse than the stock cooler.


----------



## dark2099 (Jun 1, 2020)

heky said:


> Hm...if the cpu temp is really worse than with the stock cooler, i would say it's either a bad/wrong (have you checked the contact between the coldplate and cpu)  mount or the unit is faulty. There is little to no chance a 280 AIO performs worse than the stock cooler.



Pretty sure it is the mount, grabbed a H60 locally, and that is running better than the H115i. Can't tighten the mount on the H115i any more, and don't want to risk damaging anything in messing with it.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 1, 2020)

It looks like this middle-of-the-road chip wants to go even further. I accidentally had my AC on full blast despite last two days being rainy - 6C drop in room temperature for another 20 points. This isn't even Windows 2004.



Absolutely no tweaking. Bone stock. Effective clock is still up at 41.25x because of the chip's voltage wall, but I suspect that the lower the ambient temperature and the better the cooler, the longer it can sustain that clock through the test without dropping to 41x or 40.8x.

So if you are curious about what boost can do, turn up that AC and run some CB


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 2, 2020)

Anyone know what the max soc voltage is on Ryzen 3##£


----------



## NoJuan999 (Jun 2, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Anyone know what the max soc voltage is on Ryzen 3##£





> 1.2V is generally considered the upper limit of safe SoC voltages, particularly on Ryzen 3000 CPUs.


from here:


			https://www.corsair.com/corsairmedia/sys_master/productcontent/Ryzen3000_MemoryOverclockingGuide.pdf
		


Personally I set my SOC voltage at 1.125v.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 2, 2020)

NoJuan999 said:


> from here:
> 
> 
> https://www.corsair.com/corsairmedia/sys_master/productcontent/Ryzen3000_MemoryOverclockingGuide.pdf
> ...


Might help me get 1900 out of the IF that .

I'll read through the guide too looks good

Apparently not onto memory timings again then


----------



## heky (Jun 2, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Anyone know what the max soc voltage is on Ryzen 3##£


I think AMD mentioned up to 1.2v being safe, but you should not need more than 1.1v.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 3, 2020)

Half killed my 2700x (one pin fell off, only has two single-channel slots working now)

Soooo i've shuffled my hardware around, VR system has a single channel 2700x and ITX rig has a 3700x


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 3, 2020)

Mussels said:


> Half killed my 2700x (one pin fell off, only has two single-channel slots working now)
> 
> Soooo i've shuffled my hardware around, VR system has a single channel 2700x and ITX rig has a 3700x


It's not impossible to solder a pin back on, it's close to though.

I managed to get a piece of copper wire correctly in place once, it was hard on the eyeballs mostly.

Does Ryzen x470/570 support raiding three nvme drive's in raid 0.

I had all sorts of trouble getting an OS installed on such.

I tried the F6(not proper f6 it didn't work) style but couldn't build an array to install on ,no bios options to build an array.
I ended up pre building a array and adequately drivered OS separate then imaging the OS to the array, pain in the ass.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 3, 2020)

Honestly i'd have left it alone and dealt with single channel for my fuckup, except on the ITX board that would have limited me to one stick of ram.

Most shocking is how low the heat output of the system is now, the 120mm exhaust fan blows cool air, instead of being good for warming my hands while gaming - hell my UPS shows me at around 300W while gaming, including monitor and speakers

3700x is nice. With PBO on (and set to just above stock values) i'm getting good scores and temps, with two cores doing 4.425Ghz







16% faster single threaded, 13% faster multi threaded


----------



## pantherx12 (Jun 4, 2020)

May I join the party?


----------



## kapone32 (Jun 4, 2020)

pantherx12 said:


> May I join the party?View attachment 157808


Welcome, how are you liking your dive into Ryzen?


----------



## pantherx12 (Jun 4, 2020)

kapone32 said:


> Welcome, how are you liking your dive into Ryzen?




Love it! I mean it's in a laptop so it's stupidly loud but performance wise everything is outstanding. See cinebench multithread attached. Pretty crazy for something in a regular laptop form factor. Also have lots of other nice goodies in this laptop


----------



## Xzibit (Jun 7, 2020)

In case people are too distracted by world events

New AMD Chipset Drivers

*Revision Number*
*2.04.28.626
File Size
50 MB
Release Date*
*6/3/2020*

*Supports:*
Windows® 7/10 for
2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor
7th-Gen AMD A-Series Processors
AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor
AMD X470 Chipset
AMD X370 Chipset
AMD B450 Chipset
AMD B350 Chipset
AMD A320 Chipset
Windows® 10 only for
3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ Processors
3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor
2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ Processor
AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ Processor
AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor with Radeon™ Graphics
AMD Ryzen™ Mobile Processor with Radeon™ Graphics
AMD X399 Chipset
AMD X570 Chipset
        AMD TRX40 Chipset
*Package Includes:*
        AMD Chipset Drivers
        AMD Ryzen™ Power Plans (required for UEFI CPPC2 in Windows® 10 May 2019 Update)


----------



## droopyRO (Jun 8, 2020)

What is going on here ? On the left is PBO off, on the right is PBO on with custom settings.
Why is the power consumption lower if the temperature, voltage and Amps are higher ? I use HWinfo64 and RTSS.


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## Mussels (Jun 8, 2020)

PBO doesnt always work the way you expect, maxing the settings often behaves worse than raising them slightly above stock


----------



## Psychoholic (Jun 8, 2020)

My 3800x Boosts like crazy after changing EDC to "1"


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## Mussels (Jun 8, 2020)

I saw that mentioned on reddit as some bug with AGESA

It does give some funny results










Edit: i'll need to take a photo of my PBO settings now so i dont forget what i did, cause i like seeing a 4.475GHz boost on a 3700x...





PBO settings for my high single core boost above, maxing settings is not the way to go (the EDC 1 bug is great tho)





oh and for the fun of it, min/max power readings after doing a cinebench run... this is total system including 32" monitor and speakers
Ryzen efficiency ftw


----------



## Psychoholic (Jun 8, 2020)

Yeah, I'm not sure what it does or doesn't do.
I do know that my voltage, watts, current and temp under load (cinebench run) seem to be the same as they were with everything at default.


----------



## AsRock (Jun 8, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Anyone know what the max soc voltage is on Ryzen 3##£



Maybe this be some help


----------



## pantherx12 (Jun 8, 2020)

I'm having issues with ryzen master/ my laptop firmware.


Randomly lowers the ppt from 88w to 75 and sets EDC at tdc to 50 massively reducing performance. Any ideas?


----------



## AsRock (Jun 8, 2020)

No idea sorry, by just looking at a few posts around the web i would try not using the AMD Ryzen power profile.  Although i think you should get in touch with the manufacture of the laptop.


----------



## pantherx12 (Jun 8, 2020)

AsRock said:


> No idea sorry, by just looking at a few posts around the web i would try not using the AMD Ryzen power profile.  Although i think you should get in touch with the manufacture of the laptop.



Thanks I'll have a look into that. My stepson is currently playing tabs on the machine though so it will have to wait

Edit: That didn't fix pbo unfortunately.

However I did have an attempt at manual overclocking. Any higher than this and power delivery fails and reboots system . 4ghz all core brings CPU power to 75 w


----------



## Apocalypsee (Jun 9, 2020)

Hey guys I bought Ryzen 3600 and B450M-S2H few days back and been tweaking with it. Samsung OEM 2133MHz B-die didn't disappoint even though it can't do low latency, it can reach 3600MHz. This is so far what I got. Tried to using the DRAM calculator but it refuse to boot with the setting it gave (I chose bad bin SAFE preset)





Anything higher than this the FLCK and UCLK start to drop its speeds, I can force it to run 1:1 but it isn't stable, to make matter worse its hard to pinpoint what is unstable so I keep it at 1800MHz. I disable PBO but keep Core Performance Boost enabled, it looks like the same boost profile as PBO. I undervolted it slightly about 0.05V because I'm still on stock cooler. Temperature is high reaching 80C under non-AVX load. With AVX it reach 90C immediately so I stop using it.

Tried static overclock too but the limitation is the Wraith Stealth cooler so I kept it as it is. Plus static overclock won't clock down the CPU and I don't like that.


----------



## droopyRO (Jun 9, 2020)

Ryzen Burnout? AMD Board Power Cheats May Shorten CPU Lifespan (Updated)
					

Dialing up the power dials down CPU lifespan




					www.tomshardware.com
				




I am wondering if it has anything to do with my dilemma at post https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/ryzen-owners-zen-garden.231658/post-4284193 ? Maybe the Auto settings on the board are making it draw more power. I will check it out when i get home with the beta HwInfo64.

EDIT: yup Tomahawk Max dose it with PBO activated. Under 100% on Power Reporting = under reporting.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 10, 2020)

You guys should love this thread:









						2700x - snapped pin, ghetto repair and a lapjob!
					

Long story short: I lost a pin off my 2700x to some pin goblin, and bought a 3700x. Then i thought... lets try dumb shit to fix this thing.  Broken pin, which controlled the RAM slots. One of 4 slots worked at 2133Mhz, not fully stable but enough to reach windows.  Edit: Missed some photos!  How...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




replaced a missing CPU pin with a sata cable and lapped the 2700x


----------



## pantherx12 (Jun 10, 2020)

Done some fiddling with manual overclocking all within a 95w ppt limit 

Really liking this hardware, share the reseller has gimped the bios. pbo with a 95w limit would be exceptional single core and multicore performance.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 15, 2020)

(copy pasted from the GN thread here, since it fits both categories)

Brother bought new Ryzen hardware, so i helped set it up (he's basically cloned my PC, except with 32GB of 3600MHz ram)

Had no spare PSU so i had to improvise with an ITX one - hey i have a spare ITX system! lets slap it in there!
750Ti turned out to not like ryzen 3000 - works fine with my 1400 we used for a BIOS update, but nope CPU-GPU issue so this wouldnt post on the 3700x





So out it all comes, this 220W PSU from 2014 in an OEM case will run a 980 with a 3700x right?





Well it does, as long as you dont mine Sata->Molex->Molex splitters->PCI-E 8 pin power


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 15, 2020)

WOW!! That is janky as hell man... I'm shocked that PSU even runs that setup at all.


----------



## pantherx12 (Jun 15, 2020)

Mussels said:


> (copy pasted from the GN thread here, since it fits both categories)
> 
> Etc etc



I thought I made some janky stuff. That's house fire levels of jank good sir.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 16, 2020)

pantherx12 said:


> I thought I made some janky stuff. That's house fire levels of jank good sir.


Right? That's just next level janky going on there...


----------



## Mussels (Jun 16, 2020)

it just needed to post and get into BIOS to make sure the update took hold, basically. ended up running a USB linux just fine.

No way in hell i'd have ran 3D load on that.


----------



## ChristTheGreat (Jun 22, 2020)

I think I have finally a good ryzen chip!

3700x, testing 4.1ghz @ 1.28v, looks solid.

IBut I think my Strix x470-f report higher temp than other board. my 3600x was running 80C under prime95, 3700x 87C in a 26C ambiant room, fan at max.

Anyway I don't do prime all day xD


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 22, 2020)

ChristTheGreat said:


> I think I have finally a good ryzen chip!
> 
> 3700x, testing 4.1ghz @ 1.28v, looks solid.
> 
> ...


Silicon lottery in your favor. Well nice!


----------



## Mussels (Jun 25, 2020)

So fellow Zengardians, Is it good to have a 3700x that boosts to 4.475GHz on two cores, and 6 of the 8 cores going above the rated 4.4 boost?

No BCLK shenanigans here, stock settings other than slight PBO tweaks


----------



## GoldenX (Jun 25, 2020)

Spoil us the PBO settings.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 25, 2020)

GoldenX said:


> Spoil us the PBO settings.



Apart from the EDC 1 tweak i found on reddit, the rest came from someones advice of 'dont just crank it up, slightly boosted settings often work best'


----------



## GoldenX (Jun 25, 2020)

You convinced me to try the EDC trick on my 3400G. Specially on the GPU.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 26, 2020)

Mussels said:


> So fellow Zengardians, Is it good to have a 3700x that boosts to 4.475GHz on two cores, and 6 of the 8 cores going above the rated 4.4 boost?
> 
> No BCLK shenanigans here, stock settings other than slight PBO tweaks



Why is your PPT 3W below stock?



My score with the trick is up from 5001 without PBO and 5013 with EDC 83.

My chip boosts about 50-100MHz higher ST and up to 4.2GHz MT, but that also means it pulls 1.4V briefly, dropping to 1.36V for the duration of the test. Without PBO, Vcore is usually 1.3V in the test, up to 1.337V with EDC 83 PBO. Knowing my chip and how badly it's binned, this seems proof as any that the EDC trick probably breaks PBO and maybe some other safeguards as well, though FIT and PROCHOT are clearly working as normal.

The performance in tests is often very erratic and inconsistent, wildly more so than Ryzen is even at stock. Clocks don't seem to change but ST CPU-Z varies 45pts and MT varies up to 150pts in back-to-back runs. Cinebench ST straight up refuses to finish. Snipping Tool opens only half the time. Sometimes, the CPU will visibly throttle and instantly lose 40pts in the middle of the ST test, although it's clearly not for thermal reasons, as can be seen here with these two done back-to-back:





Needless to say, I just went back to stock. My chip is batch 1924 (mid June 2019), and knowing full well that it can't even manually sustain 4.25-4.3GHz at any remotely reasonable Vcore, I don't like what I'm seeing here with the EDC trick, especially with the errors, instability and freak readings. The fact that my board grossly underreports (~25-30%) doesn't help either, maybe the new B550 board I've got on the way will change things, maybe not.

If your 3700X is one of the newly manufactured ones that are capable of outstanding performance like 4.3GHz @ 1.1V, then I'm sure it's a much safer setting for your chip. Though at that point, it might be worth it to just manually overclock 4.4GHz at a sub-1.25V Vcore, since it's a pretty safe voltage.


----------



## GoldenX (Jun 26, 2020)

Well, bad news, the EDC trick doesn't work on APUs.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 26, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Why is your PPT 3W below stock?



120mm silent air cooler, i wanted this to be a high performing low wattage build... and i get snazzy performance with this


this trick varies between CPU's, theres some threads around with various suggestions for what worked on X board with Y CPU

ST run got 4.45 (bounced between cores, but generally the same clocks... i took a screenshot so the score could likely be higher)





MT Run


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 26, 2020)

@Mussels yeah, for sure, it'll affect every 3700X differently. What sort of Vcore and "effective clock" do you see during CB multithreaded? The Vcore that the chip calls for in tests might give some indication as to the quality of your chip if you haven't specifically tested the minimum Vcore requirements at certain speeds. Not VID.

I'm still kicking myself for opting to save $30 on the Aorus instead of the Strix ITX B450 at the time. Then I wouldn't even need to buy a B550 board because yours will handle any 8- and 12-core that comes down the line with no problems. Add to that the gross power underreporting that this board has, the fact that I can't use my C14S with it, and it's not the proudest purchasing decision I've made.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 26, 2020)

Spent all day stuffing around with all the various tweaks and weird things to see what happens

the EDC tweak kicks my single core up, but hurts multi core badly. the clocks stay high but performance tanks?

Ended up settling on "level 4" boost whatever that means by asus, with PBO enabled on default

Not my fastest result, but its cool quiet and rock stable


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 27, 2020)

I switched over to the B550M Steel Legend that got here today and it turns out that both it and my previous B450I Aorus Pro Wifi are incorrigible bastards beyond redemption in their own unique ways.

Set any XMP profile and the ASRock board literally forgets how to train memory properly. Even worse, if you try to use XMP to save a few steps, even BIOS is unstable and randomly freezes. I had to manually input all timings for my previous 3600 16-19-19-37 DJR profile; on that front, it and DRAM voltage control work just fine. It all works out to the same membench and AIDA scores as on my previous board and appears to be stable. Will do some HCI and P95 Large later to verify.

ASRock apparently forces either 1.19V or 1.20V (!!!!!!) of SoC voltage when the board detects that DRAM speeds are anywhere above JEDEC 2133. It also overrides any manually inputted SoC voltage value as long as memory isn't 2133. I know for a fact that my current memory settings shouldn't require any more than 1.1V SoC to sustain.

Precision Boost is also extremely lax, with single core boost rarely ever hitting 4.4 and multi-core in CB R20 consistently below 4GHz, which costs me almost 200MHz and upwards of 250pts score in direct comparison to my old board. Even under 100% load, the temperatures are inconsistent and jumpy as though it's not actually being loaded.

I can't use PBO; any PBO settings that aren't Disabled straight up crash Cinebench.

To make matters worse, I can't even use the 1.10 BIOS update with AGESA v2 1.0.0.2. It hates my memory, and crashes Cinebench 100% of the time, bone stock, regardless of what my settings are. I have to use the original release BIOS with AGESA v2 1.0.0, which in turn has low and questionable performance and stability.

I can't think of any reason why it almost behaves like its constantly throttling in tests. Vcore is low, temps are low, clocks are low, VRM should be comfortably able to handle a 3900X or 3950X just fine, as tested by reviewers.

I never thought "appealing" a descriptor that could be applied to Comet Lake, but I can't think of much else right now.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 28, 2020)

Did a *lot* of testing to see what combinations of PBO, stock settings, EDC bug and so on to see what gave the best performance, vs the heat output.

Ironically, against the common wisdom with ryzen a static all core 4.3GHz OC turned out to be the best. Lose 1% single threaded performance for a large multi threaded boost over stock, and i'm only getting 63C max all core (around 45C in games)

I mean really, 45C CPU and 35C GPU? this system uses so little power its amazing. Playing rimworld the UPS says i'm getting 120W power draw max... for the *entire* system including soundbar and 32" monitor.


----------



## Nuckles56 (Jun 28, 2020)

That's very impressive, even if rimworld is like a pure single core load and minimal GPu load as well


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jun 28, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> I switched over to the B550M Steel Legend that got here today and it turns out that both it and my previous B450I Aorus Pro Wifi are incorrigible bastards beyond redemption in their own unique ways.
> 
> Set any XMP profile and the ASRock board literally forgets how to train memory properly. Even worse, if you try to use XMP to save a few steps, even BIOS is unstable and randomly freezes. I had to manually input all timings for my previous 3600 16-19-19-37 DJR profile; on that front, it and DRAM voltage control work just fine. It all works out to the same membench and AIDA scores as on my previous board and appears to be stable. Will do some HCI and P95 Large later to verify.
> 
> ...


Sadly that sounds a lot like the early days of X570. Give it a couple of UEFI updates and hopefully they'll figure it out.
I have no experience with ASRock, but I hope they have competent UEFI engineers.

I had no end of random issues early on with my system, but these days it's flawless.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 29, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Sadly that sounds a lot like the early days of X570. Give it a couple of UEFI updates and hopefully they'll figure it out.
> I have no experience with ASRock, but I hope they have competent UEFI engineers.
> 
> I had no end of random issues early on with my system, but these days it's flawless.



Yeah, those were some dark times. Good thing for us back then was widespread awareness of the glaring firmware issues plaguing all Matisse, and the fact that AMD and vendors were working overtime to rectify them. Nowadays, most users on Matisse have no issues because the baseline firmware has no problems, and given the prevailing opinions of B550, few people are buying/upgrading to it. I doubt it's too high up on ASRock's list of priorities unless the B550M SL becomes a sleeper hit and it turns out to be a consistent firmware problem. Not holding my breath.

I returned it and ordered a Mortar, but it's in some sort of limbo where it's clearly in stock in large numbers yet still backordered so I might be staying on the testbench awhile. It's sad because it's a nice board and I wanted to give ASRock another chance as I haven't been able to since the first board I purchased, which was a Z77 Extreme3 and still trucking along today. If it was just the lower clocks, I would have kept it even though I had technically overpaid for it (much more expensive than its $USD equivalent), but I can't deal with it consistently rebooting 5 seconds into any respectable CPU stress test. There's also the mandatory 1.2V SoC, and as far as I can tell it's just a general ASRock thing. Wouldn't be surprised if excessive VSoC was responsible for at least some instability. Also needed about 0.3V more than on the Aorus to make the 16-19-19-37 stable, but it wasn't an issue as the 4 slots allowed the sticks plenty more airflow than on the 2 DIMM Aorus.

I initially thought it could be a Windows 2004 issue, as my current installation was 1909, but I've clean installed 2004 after coming back to the Aorus and 2004 performs no worse than 1909.

Gigabyte, MSI and ASRock all seem to be relatively decent in keeping up with BIOS updates, but ASRock likes making questionable claims regarding supported RAM speeds. We'll see if MSI's any better. I'm a little excited as I've not had a board with power delivery this strong before, ISL99360 whew.


----------



## AsRock (Jun 29, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Yeah, those were some dark times. Good thing for us back then was widespread awareness of the glaring firmware issues plaguing all Matisse, and the fact that AMD and vendors were working overtime to rectify them. Nowadays, most users on Matisse have no issues because the baseline firmware has no problems, and given the prevailing opinions of B550, few people are buying/upgrading to it. I doubt it's too high up on ASRock's list of priorities unless the B550M SL becomes a sleeper hit and it turns out to be a consistent firmware problem. Not holding my breath.
> 
> I returned it and ordered a Mortar, but it's in some sort of limbo where it's clearly in stock in large numbers yet still backordered so I might be staying on the testbench awhile. It's sad because it's a nice board and I wanted to give *ASRock another chance as I haven't been able to since the first board I purchased, which was a Z77* Extreme3 and still trucking along today. If it was just the lower clocks, I would have kept it even though I had technically overpaid for it (much more expensive than its $USD equivalent), but I can't deal with it consistently rebooting 5 seconds into any respectable CPU stress test. There's also the mandatory 1.2V SoC, and as far as I can tell it's just a general ASRock thing. Wouldn't be surprised if excessive VSoC was responsible for at least some instability. Also needed about 0.3V more than on the Aorus to make the 16-19-19-37 stable, but it wasn't an issue as the 4 slots allowed the sticks plenty more airflow than on the 2 DIMM Aorus.
> 
> ...



Both my Z68 Extreme 4 and 2 Z77 Extreme4 still going strong here too.


What i find funny is that i have had 0 issue stressing  my Patriot 2x16GB 3200 set at @3600 @1.35v, sadly it seems like Patriot do not sell any at those speeds so i guess that's why they don't add it.

But ASRock brand don't seem as good as they once were.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 29, 2020)

AsRock said:


> Both my Z68 Extreme 4 and 2 Z77 Extreme4 still going strong here too.
> 
> 
> What i find funny is that i have had 0 issue stressing  my Patriot 2x16GB 3200 set at @3600 @1.35v, sadly it seems like Patriot do not sell any at those speeds so i guess that's why they don't add it.
> ...



The BIOS hasn't changed much, I'll give em that, and I like that. Why fix what isn't broken? It's easy to find what you need. Gigabyte's BIOS is a bit clunkier, more form over function.

They've really got to put the work in to make their VRMs and memory support competitive, however. AM4 is still fine because Ryzen is efficient but LGA1200 showed just how sorely far behind ASRock is. I'm starting to think that the only reason they claim higher memory speeds (4733) than other vendors on boards like the B550M Steel Legend and Pro4 is the balls-to-the-wall 1.2V VSoC. Last time I checked, 1.2V was the safe limit for Matisse SoC.

Can't deny that it's a beautiful board, though. I really liked that unique Clear CMOS button on the rear I/O too.


----------



## Atomic77 (Jun 29, 2020)

What is the big deal with Ryzen? I am currently operating a  hp envy tower computer i bought in 2014 with a  intel core i5 4th gen. If I can afford too I may go to a laptop this year.


----------



## pantherx12 (Jun 29, 2020)

Atomic77 said:


> What is the big deal with Ryzen? I am currently operating a  hp envy tower computer i bought in 2014 with a  intel core i5 4th gen. If I can afford too I may go to a laptop this year.



It's fast, power efficient and highly scalable.

So for example I've got a laptop with 12 core 24 thread Ryzen in it.

They're probably the best processors on average out at the moment. Both teams still win at specific work loads but if you're after machines that do everything pretty decently Ryzen seems the way to go these days.

The 3000 series or laptop 4000 series are the ones to look at at.


Sepperate unrelated request

If anyone with a 3900x or 3900 can run a couple of tests for me I'd be appreciated.
Although a 3950x with cores parked would probably work too.

Want to know what peak voltage is when running at 88w ppt during cinebench r20 .
As well as peak voltage when running single core.
Also boost clocks during the same scenario

Turns out my laptop may have a bios issue where it has a + voltage offset as default and just wanted to know what I should be seeing.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 29, 2020)

Slowly tuning in voltages at 4.3GHz, oddly enough scores are faster than my 4.4GHz run now, no idea why.

1.2V, 4.3GHz


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 29, 2020)

Mussels said:


> Slowly tuning in voltages at 4.3GHz, oddly enough scores are faster than my 4.4GHz run now, no idea why.
> 
> 1.2V, 4.3GHz



Looks like some form of clock stretching? I get higher scores than your 4.3 result just running without PBO @ 4.075-4.15GHz all core normal boost...are you using Ryzen Master for OC? RM does all sorts of weird things to clocks and scores.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 29, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Looks like some form of clock stretching? I get higher scores than your 4.3 result just running without PBO @ 4.075-4.15GHz all core normal boost...are you using Ryzen Master for OC? RM does all sorts of weird things to clocks and scores.



You have faster ram than i do, and i OC'd in BIOS only.

2700x is now at 4.1GHz all core, 1.3125V - 55C load in torture tests, prior to the lapping that thing would always be 80C on that cooler.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 29, 2020)

Mussels said:


> You have faster ram than i do, and i OC'd in BIOS only.
> 
> 2700x is now at 4.1GHz all core, 1.3125V - 55C load in torture tests, prior to the lapping that thing would always be 80C on that cooler.



CB should be relatively unaffected by RAM speed, especially between 3200/16 and 3600/16. RAM speed definitely not a larger difference than CPU speed.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 1, 2020)

A quick heads-up for anyone considering B550: AMD apparently doesn't like high boost clocks and Vcore in Cinebench R20. It now looks like it has a multiplier offset in CB R20 on the newest firmwares. As far as I can tell, they previously did this to Prime95 very, very early after Ryzen 3000's launch, where for a very short time, you could get Ryzen 3000 running AVX Prime95 Small/Smallest at near-full all-core speeds as it devolved into a fireball. 

I've now tried two midrange B550 mATX boards, and new AGESA v2 1.0.0.0/1.0.0.1/1.0.0.2 shipped with release or early BIOSes on B550 boards appears to limit them both to the same sub-4GHz all-core speeds in Cinebench. The similarity of the scores between the ASRock and Asus make me think that the Mortar and Aorus Pro probably behave the same way as well.

Just yesterday with my B450 ITX board which has been on the original 1.0.0.4B BIOS (F50) for months, I was benching 4950-5050 points bone stock, no PBO. Clocks always start at 41.5-41.8x, slowly dropping as the test goes on. 
With the B550M Steel Legend (which, sadly, had other firmware issues to worry about) scores were consistently between 4770-4800, and the B550M TUF Wifi is exactly the same at precisely 4778. All-core clocks never peak past 39.8x. Temperatures are similarly low, more than 5 degrees less than previously. 
I did lose a few points in CPU-Z compared to the Aorus ITX (519/5570 vs. 525/5640), but I can chalk that one up to inherently compact power plane of ITX boards, the superior IR35201 controller, and a more relaxed Vcore attitude on the Asus. The ASRock was absolutely tanking at 490/5100 in CPU-Z, there's clearly something wrong with that board. The clocks that the TUF sustains in CPU-Z is competitive with the Aorus ITX, anyways, at around 41.25x max. 

On the other hand, the difference in Cinebench is drastic and seems to point quite assuredly to something having been done in the firmware. I've also not been able to make PBO work on either the ASRock or Asus board to try and mitigate the effect of the lower frequency; any PBO settings whatsoever other than Disabled introduces severe and unpredictable instability from wildly variable scores to errors and sudden crashes. Same goes for Asus' recently touted "ASUS Performance Enhancement / APE" feature that's a part of the latest BIOS. Best left off for now.

We'll see how it goes. At the very least, the TUF's AX200 Wifi is excellent, the Realtek 2.5 is excellent, the CPU is stable, and BIOS is easy to use in typical ASUS fashion, so it's not given me a reason to switch to yet another board.

Obviously, manual overclocks should not be affected. Given the stellar quality of new Matisse batches easily achieving in excess of 4.3GHz at 1.2V or less, that may be the way to go for now.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 1, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Obviously, manual overclocks should not be affected. Given the stellar quality of new Matisse batches easily achieving in excess of 4.3GHz at 1.2V or less, that may be the way to go for now.



So glad mines one of those, 4.3 at 1.2V rock solid... i'm tempted to try lower volts and/or raising the BCLK for tiny little gains.


----------



## entropy13 (Jul 1, 2020)

I'll be here regularly soon...


----------



## pantherx12 (Jul 1, 2020)

Best cinebench scores today. After poking the reseller for ages finally got a bios update and what a difference!

10c reduction in load temperatures whilst running a combined CPU/GPU load and around an 8c difference when running cinebench.

Means the CPU has more room to stretch it's legs, I beleive before there may of been a possitive voltage offset applied before so it run into PPT limits and thermal limits to the point where laptop would thermal shutdown whilst playing metro exodus.

This is all stock settings, the best bit about this fans didn't go over 50% whilst running these cinebench runs whereas before they'd be hitting 100% easily.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 3, 2020)

Wish me luck bois!


----------



## puma99dk| (Jul 3, 2020)

Mussels said:


> Wish me luck bois!


Oh the itx board is like e of f strix version you would need more them luck  

I been thinking about updating my MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC but haven't got around to it.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 3, 2020)

puma99dk| said:


> Oh the itx board is like e of f strix version you would need more them luck
> 
> I been thinking about updating my MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC but haven't got around to it.



the ITX is more like the x470 board, its heaps better than the B450-E

so far no issues, no shocker there with an all core manual OC.


----------



## puma99dk| (Jul 3, 2020)

Mussels said:


> the ITX is more like the x470 board, its heaps better than the B450-E
> 
> so far no issues, no shocker there with an all core manual OC.


What does the AGESA 1.0.0.6 bring to the table I can't find much information.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 3, 2020)

puma99dk| said:


> What does the AGESA 1.0.0.6 bring to the table I can't find much information.



XT support is my guess, and possibly initial support for the 4000 series chips


----------



## PerfectWave (Jul 3, 2020)

CROSSHAIR VI HERO BIOS 7803
"01. [E] Improve system performance.
02. Update AMD AM4 AGESA Combo PI V1 1.0.0.6 

scared to death to do the upgrade. Now my system works perfectly. Before i had tons of kernel power error then i magically press the reset bios button and finally my system is almost perfect. 

BTW still waiting the new bios from gigabyte for my aourus gaming 7 x470 wifi


----------



## toilet pepper (Jul 3, 2020)

puma99dk| said:


> Oh the itx board is like e of f strix version you would need more them luck
> 
> I been thinking about updating my MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC but haven't got around to it.




I got the same board and a 3600. Nothing changed much. PBO is still broken and negative voltage offset still doesnt work. 

They added a few more memory profiles for memtry it. And you can select higher memory frequencies now. I was able to run my 32gig ram to 3800mhz cl 16 1:1 at 1.38V and it seems stable.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 3, 2020)

toilet pepper said:


> They added a few more memory profiles for memtry it. And you can select higher memory frequencies now.


There was also a new skip memory training option that's enabled after the BIOS update. Does reduce the POST wait time before Windows starts to boot.

Memory Fast Boot [Enabled]


----------



## heky (Jul 4, 2020)

I just flashed the newest beta BIOS for my board. It has the new AGESA ComboAm4v2PI 1.0.0.2 and i must say i am impressed. It boots even faster now and the voltage control got better. Also getting much lower idle voltage. Now the max idle and single core load voltage for my chip is 1.46v, was 1.504v before.

Just a quick CB R20 and Aida64 run. Both at CPU Stock, PBO disabled, Ram at 3800 Cl16 @ 1.38v. Added Cpuz, just for fun.


----------



## GoldenX (Jul 4, 2020)

Waiting for my B450 one, I hope Gigabyte doesn't lag too much behind.


----------



## AsRock (Jul 4, 2020)

Just about to update mine, apparently they had it ready on the 2nd ).



> Update AMD AGESA Combo-AM4 V2 1.0.0.2


----------



## entropy13 (Jul 4, 2020)

entropy13 said:


> I'll be here regularly soon...







After 5 Intel CPUs...


----------



## heky (Jul 4, 2020)

entropy13 said:


> View attachment 161132
> 
> After 5 Intel CPUs...


Welcome to the bright side?!


----------



## entropy13 (Jul 4, 2020)

heky said:


> Welcome to the bright side?!



Also, getting more than 4 cores. LOL


----------



## Mussels (Jul 4, 2020)

I have per CCX clocking in the BIOS now, so i can set the two of them at different clocks and voltages


havent messed with it, but dayumn its a nice addition


----------



## heky (Jul 4, 2020)

Mussels said:


> I have per CCX clocking in the BIOS now, so i can set the two of them at different clocks and voltages
> 
> 
> havent messed with it, but dayumn its a nice addition


Wait, you can set per CCX voltages? I mean i had per CCX clocking in the BIOS since day one, but per CCX voltages sounds awesome.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 4, 2020)

heky said:


> Wait, you can set per CCX voltages? I mean i had per CCX clocking in the BIOS since day one, but per CCX voltages sounds awesome.



I just double checked, its one voltage and two sets of multi options for me (two CCX's)

so sadly no, no differing volts


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 4, 2020)

Mussels said:


> You have faster ram than i do, and i OC'd in BIOS only.
> 
> 2700x is now at 4.1GHz all core, 1.3125V - 55C load in torture tests, prior to the lapping that thing would always be 80C on that cooler.


Wow that's an add for lapping there good results on temperature.


----------



## HenrySomeone (Jul 4, 2020)

PerfectWave said:


> vega and ryzen will do damn good cos of infinity fabric


OMG, just noticed this - in retrospect, this is comedy gold!


----------



## entropy13 (Jul 5, 2020)

Not really overclocking for now, I'm just using the stock cooler atm.

Would the Wraith Stealth handle a small OC though?


----------



## Mussels (Jul 5, 2020)

entropy13 said:


> Not really overclocking for now, I'm just using the stock cooler atm.
> 
> Would the Wraith Stealth handle a small OC though?



Maybe, i get lower temps with a manual OC since the boost cranks the volts up


----------



## AsRock (Jul 5, 2020)

Mussels said:


> Maybe, i get lower temps with a manual OC since the boost cranks the volts up



I find that too, Cinebench will report will all so report better performance too.

So i end up setting up 4200 @ 1.275 and it will runs around 10c cooler.


----------



## heky (Jul 5, 2020)

I am using Ryzen Master (2.2.0.1543) to run a per CCX oc of 4.4 and 4.2 ghz with a max voltage setting of 1.3375v. It works perfect. It even downclocks when not under full load and drops voltage like it would at stock. It gets me 7725 point in CB R20 multi. Quite nice, IMHO.


----------



## heinztvoert (Jul 5, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Looks like some form of clock stretching? I get higher scores than your 4.3 result just running without PBO @ 4.075-4.15GHz all core normal boost...are you using Ryzen Master for OC? RM does all sorts of weird things to clocks and scores.



I have the 3800x and same thing I get better scores just letting it be.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 5, 2020)

without all the background tasks running, cinebench score is better


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 5, 2020)

Mussels said:


> without all the background tasks running, cinebench score is better



For sure, as variable as Ryzen is, the only sure thing is that any background process will affect scores. Whenever I bench Membench, CB, CPU-Z or AIDA I always close Dropbox and MWB and any launchers I have. I keep HWInfo as impact is minor and I do need the data.

250pts+ is a huuuuge jump, though. Usually it's less than 50-100 for me. Good to see you up to very respectable scores. The best I could do on my Aorus board was 5051.


----------



## Toothless (Jul 5, 2020)

So for max voltage, what am I looking at for safe limits for idle and full load? I've got a feeling that I can do 4.6ghz all core on say, 1.34v full load but that requires me setting 1.39v since LLC doesn't change anything when I set it in the bios. It's always a 0.5v drop between load and idle.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 5, 2020)

I have a lot of crap running in the background, steam, discord, browsers, fancy RGB animations... doesnt take much for an un noticed steam update to tank a score when you're just stress testing and not actively benching


----------



## GoldenX (Jul 5, 2020)

HenrySomeone said:


> OMG, just noticed this - in retrospect, this is comedy gold!


Well, it's better than a PCIe 4x GT1030, in bandwidth.
It's something.


----------



## puma99dk| (Jul 5, 2020)

Mussels said:


> without all the background tasks running, cinebench score is better


Sounds like I should give that a try because I have a shit ton running just doing this run with CPU clock on stock only XMP set:


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 5, 2020)

GoldenX said:


> Well, it's better than a PCIe 4x GT1030, in bandwidth.
> It's something.



If you take a look at the user's post history on TPU, you'll start to see why it's better just to let him continue talking to himself. This club thread isn't even remotely of any relevance to him; the reply is literally just to get a rise out of you.


----------



## GoldenX (Jul 5, 2020)

Noted, thanks.
Where's muh RDNA2 APU, AMD.


----------



## puma99dk| (Jul 5, 2020)

GoldenX said:


> Noted, thanks.
> Where's muh RDNA2 APU, AMD.



It still hard to say all we know is the PS5 and Xbox is built on RDNA2 that should be December 2020, but for PC it's another story maybe October but I was really hoping to see Juli/August release this year but I guess it's like everyone else if we cannot get a big promotion at a event people can wait


----------



## GoldenX (Jul 5, 2020)

Well, to be realistic, an RDNA2 APU would only add features, not performance, unless AMD improved the compression.
Current APUs are limited by 2 things, one is obviously RAM clock speed, but the other one is Infinity Fabric, they run at an 8x PCIe 3.0 equivalent, so you can hit that limit. Too bad the Zen+ ones can't get past 3600MHz RAM.


----------



## pantherx12 (Jul 6, 2020)

Got a second ryzen system now for my son.

Got a 2500x, 8gb of ram and a gtx 970 .

Should be plenty of enough power for him.

Very impressed by performance of AMD stock cooler for stock speeds it's very quiet.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 6, 2020)

pantherx12 said:


> Got a second ryzen system now for my son.
> 
> Got a 2500x, 8gb of ram and a gtx 970 .
> 
> ...



anything that isn't the stealth is pretty good, and the stealth can work perfectly fine as long as you dont have PBO on or anything else to crank the wattage up


----------



## entropy13 (Jul 6, 2020)

Got temps down from 92C to 80C by manually setting a 4.2GHz overclock (which is the maximum Boost clock anyway) @ 1.28V. PBO and CPB are disabled. And I'm using the stock cooler lol

Temps were from the in-game benchmark in Grid: Autosport.

EDIT: Looks like I can have it run 5C cooler (from 99C to 94C) on Cinebench at a lower voltage, 1.265V. Cinebench crashes at 1.25V.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 7, 2020)

i actually want to build a system with my ryzen 1400 just so i can use the wraith prism i have


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 7, 2020)

Mussels said:


> i actually want to build a system with my ryzen 1400 just so i can use the wraith prism i have


It’s not an unreasonable excuse. What about the fan noise?


----------



## Mussels (Jul 7, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> It’s not an unreasonable excuse. What about the fan noise?



its not very loud, and a ryzen 1400 is so low heat output it wont have to spin up


----------



## pantherx12 (Jul 7, 2020)

Question more experienced zen users.

Is there a way to lower boost clock multiplier or target speeds like with Intel CPUs or phenom x 6 CPUs?

I'd be a lot happier with my single core just boosting to 4ghz .


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 7, 2020)

OEM 3900?

Lower PPT or reduce Vcore to reduce your clockspeeds as you see fit. Or just set fixed clock at a low static Vcore voltage (mine needs 1.195V for 4GHz) at all core 4.0GHz.


----------



## heky (Jul 7, 2020)

pantherx12 said:


> Question more experienced zen users.
> 
> Is there a way to lower boost clock multiplier or target speeds like with Intel CPUs or phenom x 6 CPUs?
> 
> I'd be a lot happier with my single core just boosting to 4ghz .


You can use Ryzen Master to make a profile, where you can set the max boost frequency and max voltage levels. The processor keeps downclocking and lowering voltage when not under load as normal...


----------



## pantherx12 (Jul 7, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> OEM 3900?
> 
> Lower PPT or reduce Vcore to reduce your clockspeeds as you see fit. Or just set fixed clock at a low static Vcore voltage (mine needs 1.195V for 4GHz) at all core 4.0GHz.



I only have Ryzen master to play with I should stipulate so don't appear to have voltage controls for anything other than fixed clocks. 
Have tried 3.6ghz at 1.0375 ISH volts but would prefer boosting on 4 cores to 4ghz levels .


heky said:


> You can use Ryzen Master to make a profile, where you can set the max boost frequency and max voltage levels. The processor keeps downclocking and lowering voltage when not under load as normal...



Is this the fixed clock method ?

I'm hoping to just adjust the turbo parameters only. I.e less aggressive single/dual/quad core boosting.

Processor gets hotter running lightly threaded or gaming work loads then it does rendering because of the 1.35-1.45 volts it pushes through during those loads.

This is all to avoid overheating when gaming by the way.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 7, 2020)

Honestly if you're after controlling temps etc, just go with a modest all core OC. the 200Mhz single core boost i got vs my 4.3Ghz manual OC wasnt worth the extra 15C in multi threaded (which is almost everything i do, except for old DX9 games)


----------



## entropy13 (Jul 7, 2020)

entropy13 said:


> Got temps down from 92C to 80C by manually setting a 4.2GHz overclock (which is the maximum Boost clock anyway) @ 1.28V. PBO and CPB are disabled. And I'm using the stock cooler lol
> 
> Temps were from the in-game benchmark in Grid: Autosport.
> 
> EDIT: Looks like I can have it run 5C cooler (from 99C to 94C) on Cinebench at a lower voltage, 1.265V. Cinebench crashes at 1.25V.



OK So I just opted to adjusting PPT. It's at 80W (running at 3.6GHz) and it no longer goes beyond 80C on Cinebench.

In-game temps (Grid: Autosport) never went beyond 73C, so that's good as well. Looks like just changing PPT already did a lot.


----------



## pantherx12 (Jul 7, 2020)

entropy13 said:


> OK So I just opted to adjusting PPT. It's at 80W (running at 3.6GHz) and it no longer goes beyond 80C on Cinebench.
> 
> In-game temps (Grid: Autosport) never went beyond 73C, so that's good as well. Looks like just changing PPT already did a lot.


Still allows very high single core power draw just a heads up 

@Mussels Problem is there's no wiggle room in this at all. Because I have one very hot core all the time ( 10 c higher than the rest) if I do 3.9 or 3.8ghz which I can do with very reasonable voltage it still gets thermal cut off. This is at the same v-core that gets applied for stock 3.5-3.6ghz speeds.

It can just about manage 3.6ghz . When gaming.
So annoying as when just rendering it can manage 3.9 just about for hours.


I would say it's an air bubble in the paste but I've remounted a million times. Pretty sure it's from uneven mounting pressure due to only 3 bolts holding down cooling.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 7, 2020)

pantherx12 said:


> Still allows very high single core power draw just a heads up
> 
> @Mussels Problem is there's no wiggle room in this at all. Because I have one very hot core all the time ( 10 c higher than the rest) if I do 3.9 or 3.8ghz which I can do with very reasonable voltage it still gets thermal cut off. This is at the same v-core that gets applied for stock 3.5-3.6ghz speeds.
> 
> ...



you need to fuck that warranty off and do what i did, and sandpaper your fingertips off
i mean, lap your ryzen. yes.


----------



## pantherx12 (Jul 9, 2020)

It's tempting but but I'll leave it as is for the time being just incase the rest of the laptop goes. I could justify loosing warranty on the CPU but as it came as a package it would void my entire warranty .

Question is this level of difference typical for ryzen 3000 2 ccd processors?

If no, I could shave off so much of my max temperatures if I could rectify this issue .

Screen shots still occasionally don't work so apologies for photograph.


----------



## puma99dk| (Jul 9, 2020)

@Mussels have your lapped your own Ryzen?


----------



## pantherx12 (Jul 9, 2020)

I found out something interesting whilst messing about. The reason one CCD is so hot is because each core draws 20% more power than the " good" CCD!

Really annoying behaviour, anyone know any AMD employees? Give them a kick please and see if this can be corrected through bios updates.

To get them to run at the same wattage I have to run ccd0 at 3ghz and ccd1 at 3.6ghz.


That's just crazy, I know they bin the chips but such a mismatch is pure madness.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 9, 2020)

puma99dk| said:


> @Mussels have your lapped your own Ryzen?



the 2700x is mine 
the 3700x runs cold and smooth, so its not as bad as the 27 was


----------



## toilet pepper (Jul 9, 2020)

Mussels said:


> the 2700x is mine
> the 3700x runs cold and smooth, so its not as bad as the 27 was


I guess my 3600 needs lapping as well. I tried several coolers and pastes and it sill runs around 70ish when gaming. Around 27c ambient here.


----------



## AsRock (Jul 10, 2020)

With the bios update on my ASRock Pro4.

Got mine on the 2nd and it's lowered the performance by a little all so noticed the bus clock runs 98.8 and not 100% now too on top of that by default SoC/Uncore OC mode ( Higher idle power usage ) was enabled by default ( wasn't before).

As i have mine on all core 4200\1600 HWinfo used to report 4200 but now 4.192.4, but 99% sure that's a bug with HWinfo as RM reports 4.199\4.200.

CPU's running even cooler now, 41c idle, room temp is 33.3c

All so got 5 extra profiles YAY.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 10, 2020)

AsRock said:


> With the bios update on my ASRock Pro4.
> 
> Got mine on the 2nd and it's lowered the performance by a little all so noticed the bus clock runs 98.8 and not 100% now too on top of that by default SoC/Uncore OC mode ( Higher idle power usage ) was enabled by default ( wasn't before).
> 
> ...



Is this the new v2 1.0.0.2 BIOS? I'm flashing right now to the 0805 BIOS on my board, which is the second iteration of 1.0.0.2. The 1.10 update was an initial attempt at 1.0.0.2 on my previous ASRock B550 and went horribly, so we'll see if Asus does any better.

I *still* can't find anyone else who's noticed a 4000MHz cap in CB R20 MT on 1.0.0.0/.1/.2 with B550. ST works just fine. It's way too oddly consistent across 2 different boards and 4 BIOS revisions to be a freak mistake.

Also, 4192MHz at 4200MHz is a 99.8MHz BCLK, completely normal reporting on absolutely every motherboard ever made when Spread Spectrum is on, as should be default settings. You're not losing performance.


----------



## AsRock (Jul 10, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Is this the new v2 1.0.0.2 BIOS? I'm flashing right now to the 0805 BIOS on my board, which is the second iteration of 1.0.0.2. The 1.10 update was an initial attempt at 1.0.0.2 on my previous ASRock B550 and went horribly, so we'll see if Asus does any better.
> 
> I *still* can't find anyone else who's noticed a 4000MHz cap in CB R20 MT on 1.0.0.0/.1/.2 with B550. ST works just fine. It's way too oddly consistent across 2 different boards and 4 BIOS revisions to be a freak mistake.
> 
> Also, 4192MHz at 4200MHz is a 99.8MHz BCLK, completely normal reporting on absolutely every motherboard ever made when Spread Spectrum is on, as should be default settings. You're not losing performance.



Yes it is v2

Spread Spectrum is default has always been off.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 10, 2020)

i cant even find spread spectrum on my board, but yeah when on it lowers the clock that tiny fraction

edit: got the new AGESA on my x370 board, too

Auto settings are getting 4GHz all core, 4.25-4.35 single (hell i dont think i even have XMP on)


----------



## AsRock (Jul 10, 2020)

Yeah well, on or off it makes no difference in HWinfo or in RM,  how ever i did notice a 50 point loss in CB.


----------



## puma99dk| (Jul 11, 2020)

I am looking into tuning my memory better then XMP or AMP since it's on AMD   

My 4 sticks which is 2xkits runs 16-17-17-35 T1 @ 3000MHz but I feel this could be better but since it's mixed Hynix M-Die (Hynix MFR) and Samsung B-Die I am not sure which timings to trust the most.




Using DRAM Calulator for Ryzen by @1usmus it doesn't make my decision easier for 3000 or 3200MHz since my Hynix M-Die based kit is only 3000MHz so the calulator won't go over 3200MHz and I need the 32GB for what I am doing and I don't want to give up these kind of memory because you cannot really buy it anymore.

3200MHz Timings for both kits
 

So a little close together yet still far and the Hynix kit manages 14-17-17-34 T1 and the B-Die 14-20-19-40 T1 I guess the B-Die ain't the best I could have gotten.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 11, 2020)

puma99dk| said:


> My 4 sticks which is 2xkits runs 16-17-17-35 T1 @ 3000MHz but I feel this could be better but since it's mixed Hynix M-Die (Hynix MFR) and Samsung B-Die I am not sure which timings to trust the most.


I’m mixing 2 kits of 16GB Hynix 3200 MHz with Samsung 2667 MHz for 32GB and managed 3333 MHz at the default 16-18-18-36 T1 timings.


----------



## puma99dk| (Jul 11, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> I’m mixing 2 kits of 16GB Hynix 3200 MHz with Samsung 2667 MHz for 32GB and managed 3333 MHz at the default 16-18-18-36 T1 timings.


Interesting


----------



## Toothless (Jul 11, 2020)

Got a buddy to join the red side. 3600 that I was able to stick to 4.2 all core. Slapped my 3700x cooler on there and temps are about 10-15c cooler manually clocked than stock. 

1.069v under load, 1.281v idle for core.

Peak 60.5c for the core after five runs of R20.

Gonna slap it in a case and get it finished for the dude.


----------



## GoldenX (Jul 11, 2020)

That stock cooler looks so good. If only it was a bit better in cooling performance.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 11, 2020)

Stepped the DJR up to 3733 @ 1.38V and so far stable in benches and 50% 32GB HCI. Timings are identical to my 3600 profile save for slightly higher tRFC. I'm not sure if 3800 is within reach; 3733 first for 200% HCI and a few days to make sure the IMC is okay.

  

My problem is still that I can't find any way to run my kit on this board without Geardown (GDM) at any timings. I've tried my usual custom 16-19-19-37 profile, 18-19-19-39 XMP (because of GDM), 16-19-21-36 DRAM calc recommendations, and XMP -1 tCL 16-19-19-39. None of them can pass HCI Memtest (DRAM calc's Membench also integrates short HCI testing) and will throw up errors almost immediately without GDM. The exact same timings and Vdram with GDM is always 100% stable through HCI. Voltage I've tested all the way up to 1.43V, makes no difference. 

GDM is always costing me 0.4ns in AIDA, but more importantly 2-2.5 seconds in Membench. I was at 117.35s _*3600*_ no GDM on my ITX board. It is nice to have the reliable boost to stability, but still.

On my ITX board, all of my profiles were error-free without GDM. I did discover a section in the guide about eliminating GDM through working with procODT and Clkdrv, might try that later. There are also board differences but the lack of info on B550 boards doesn't help; my Aorus ITX was obviously direct-DIMM and 6-layer, while my new B550 mATX is daisy-chain and I have no idea whether it's 4-layer or 6-layer. Asus' B550 mATX boards all share the same RAM validation speeds, and Asus' cheap X570-Prime is actually a 6-layer, but this segment is traditionally 4-layer......but at the same time, I've not had any issues with raw frequency as is usually the issue on 4-layer boards, only GDM.


----------



## GoldenX (Jul 11, 2020)

I have been fighting with my RAM for months now, too. Samsung C-die is total trash. You can't even do 3266 (+66MHz) without errors after minutes.


----------



## Toothless (Jul 12, 2020)

Should I be concerned with the sensors going a bit weird? Nothing shuts off or anything but it's the second time it's read these weird things.





CPU TCTL/TDIE and CCD1.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 12, 2020)

Toothless said:


> Should I be concerned with the sensors going a bit weird? Nothing shuts off or anything but it's the second time it's read these weird things.
> 
> CPU TCTL/TDIE and CCD1.



No:




Unless it's happening all the time.


----------



## Nordic (Jul 12, 2020)

Mussels said:


> you need to fuck that warranty off and do what i did, and sandpaper your fingertips off
> i mean, lap your ryzen. yes.


Given that ryzen performance is so thermally dependent, I was considering lapping my 3900x. I had about a 14c drop on my 2500k when I did it. What results did you get?


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 12, 2020)

Nordic said:


> What results did you get?


Found this from @Mussels.


Mussels said:


> 2700x is now at 4.1GHz all core, 1.3125V - 55C load in torture tests, prior to the lapping that thing would always be 80C on that cooler.











						Ryzen Owners Zen Garden
					

Looks like some form of clock stretching? I get higher scores than your 4.3 result just running without PBO @ 4.075-4.15GHz all core normal boost...are you using Ryzen Master for OC? RM does all sorts of weird things to clocks and scores.   You have faster ram than i do, and i OC'd in BIOS only...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Nordic (Jul 12, 2020)

I might just have to lap it and see what I get. I brought my 2500k down to 3000 grit copper surface.


----------



## Toothless (Jul 12, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> No:
> View attachment 161939
> 
> Unless it's happening all the time.


It's when I leave hwinfo up for days and days at some point I'll get that.


----------



## Caring1 (Jul 12, 2020)

Toothless said:


> It's when I leave hwinfo up for days and days at some point I'll get that.


That's a known bug.
Basic solution is don't leave it up and running.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jul 12, 2020)

GoldenX said:


> That stock cooler looks so good. If only it was a bit better in cooling performance.


I'm using one (from a 3900X) on my puny 2600 HTPC just because it's one of the better top-down blowers. In a shocking move (for me) I even went crazy and plugged in the two additional RGBLED cables, just once, to customise the lighting to a static 64,64,64 white ring, no fan blades. The cooler has a memory so once it's set you can yank the cable clutter and have it 'clean'.

They could make a bigger, better cooler but realistically it is about as good as they're going to get for that form-factor and - more importantly - shipping weight. It looks good, it's better than Intel, and it's adequate for the chips it ships with so I doubt it'll ever get improved much.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 12, 2020)

i didnt know you could leave it after it was set once... interesting...


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jul 13, 2020)

Mussels said:


> i didnt know you could leave it after it was set once... interesting...


I tried it on a hunch after noticing that the lighting effect I'd picked was appearing instantly, a good few seconds before the motherboard had even passed its POST and boot logo...


----------



## Mussels (Jul 13, 2020)

Buying an MSI B450 max and 16GB of ram second hand today for $200 (as-new condition, tho) so i can slap my ryzen 1400 + 980 in a PC and call it a day

dat wraith prism gunna make a shiny


----------



## Nordic (Jul 13, 2020)

Are there any Asus users who have used the new BIOS 2407 for Asus motherboards? Did you notice anything different?

"Improved system performance and compatibility
Improved DRAM compatibility
Update AM4 combo V2 PI 1.0.0.2" 

Maybe this will be the one that makes my memory work as it should consistently.


----------



## Atomic77 (Jul 13, 2020)

I haven't noticed too much with my laptop but so far my system has been pretty smooth.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 13, 2020)

Nordic said:


> Are there any Asus users who have used the new BIOS 2407 for Asus motherboards? Did you notice anything different?
> 
> "Improved system performance and compatibility
> Improved DRAM compatibility
> ...



Mine is 0805, same BIOS though. You can now manually adjust the CPU and SoC current telemetry (for the uninitiated, refer to the whole "issue" about power reporting deviation), doesn't seem to make much of a difference. Not sure if APE works as intended now, it was previously broken like PBO in v2 1.0.0.1.

Out of the box benchmark performance is lower, but PBO is finally fixed again and doesn't insta-crash any mildly demanding program, so I've been running 300/230/230/2x in an effort to get back to my ITX board performance. Result is surprisingly close; I'm back at between 4950-5000pts in Cinebench from 4800 in v0608. It seems like PBO is the way to circumvent the CB multi core clock cap in new AGESA, now that it finally works again for v2 boards.

It's crazy how my Aorus ITX was underreporting, though. For similar scores and clocks in CBR20, the ITX board was reporting 95W of package power at 74% accuracy, while my TUF reports 115W at 94% accuracy.

Not much on memory side, aside from membench scores being slightly slower than on 0608 sometimes at the same profile, down from 119 to 120 seconds @ 3600. But I've gone up to 3733 and down to 115.3 seconds in membench, so I don't have 3733 data from 0608 to compare to.

ymmv, obviously, but so far this update seems pretty solid. I might keep it until I have a Vermeer CPU.


----------



## pantherx12 (Jul 13, 2020)

Atomic77 said:


> I haven't noticed too much with my laptop but so far my system has been pretty smooth.


What did you get?


----------



## GoldenX (Jul 13, 2020)

I have the latest 1.0.0.6 on my Gigabyte, didn't notice any performance regression due to the firmware level mitigation.


----------



## Kanan (Jul 13, 2020)

With some inspiration here I changed some settings: lowered PPT to 170 W from 230 which works as well, 85 limits the CPU too much on all core clocks. Lowered TDC to 170 from 200, this is also to increase all core boost, which benefited greatly, 60 limits it a lot. And finally using the 1 A EDC trick @Mussels suggested.

Before: CPU all core boosted in Cinebench to about 4050-4150. Not very good. With mussels settings, it was 4000~ all core, but his 1 EDC trick fixed my single boost which was lowered from 4391 to just 4325 over time and now is better than ever at 4450 MHz on multiple cores, which I'm happy with. With the new settings as in the pic, and the 1 EDC bug or trick, the all core boost in CB20 is 4200 MHz constantly and 4150 MHz in Prime95 maximum stress test, which is 150 MHz more than with my old settings which were 230/200/200, as suggested by @buildzoid. As per stock, the CPU only boosts to 3600 MHz in Prime95 maximum stress. For reference: I'm using a 3700X with a Noctua NH-D14. CPU was bought a few months ago.

PS. CB20 score went up to 4824 from about 4600~.

I prefer using PBO over oldschool overclocks, since it leaves the CPU running normally otherwise.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 13, 2020)

I built a ghetto ryzen build so ghetto it will need its own thread for its hideousnessness

Thread has been posted - 
Why the f*ck not? - a bad ideas only build, by Mussels!




Mussels said:


> This is why my ram slot stopped work, its called 'woops thats conductonaut'



Ohhhh so THIS is why the pin fell off my 2700x, the conductonaut must have eaten the solder somehow?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 13, 2020)

Mussels said:


> Ohhhh so THIS is why the pin fell off my 2700x, the conductonaut must have eaten the solder somehow?


That might be possible. Conductonaut is Gallium based and Gallium is a very pervasive metal. Very nasty stuff if you get it into the wrong places.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jul 13, 2020)

I stay the hell away from liquid metal. It's horrendous stuff and there's so much potential for it to destroy and it's barely better than paste. Just about the only valid reason to buy some is to experiment with it out of sheer curiousity.

Sure, if you need those last two degrees then it can give you that, but if your overclock is that close to instability you have bigger problems than what TIM you're using.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 13, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> I stay the hell away from liquid metal. It's horrendous stuff and there's so much potential for it to destroy and it's barely better than paste. Just about the only valid reason to buy some is to experiment with it out of sheer curiousity.
> 
> Sure, if you need those last two degrees then it can give you that, but if your overclock is that close to instability you have bigger problems than what TIM you're using.



Two? I've seen 20C drops using it. You dont see many GTX 1080's running OC'd at 40C without custom water...


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jul 13, 2020)

Wow, what were you using before conductonaut? A woolly cardigan?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 13, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> Wow, what were you using before conductonaut? A woolly cardigan?


Seriously? Conductonaut works well, which is why it's so popular.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 13, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> Wow, what were you using before conductonaut? A woolly cardigan?


MX4

If you delid and/or lap and use conductonaut, you get some seriously good gains. I''m the psycho running his GTX1080 with conductonaut


Eyyyy, either the 3700x or the new BIOS has helped, but i can run my ram stable at C14 now... will do some long term gaming to find out for sure


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jul 13, 2020)

Mussels said:


> MX4
> 
> If you delid and/or lap and use conductonaut, you get some seriously good gains. I''m the psycho running his GTX1080 with conductonaut


Okay, that's an eye-opener for me. I kind of wrote off the TIM as relatively low gains when comparing Sandy (soldered) and Ivy (TIM) - My 3770K gained very little from a delid and running the NH-U12 on the die directly with a shim and some Arctic AS2.

I figured that the minimal impact of removing of one layer of paste entirely proved that TIM itself wasn't the bottleneck. Subsequent youtube videos of various people pointing FLIR cameras at heatsinks and getting temperatures within a few degrees of the reported die temperatures only cemented that imperfect experiment in my mind. If the on-die sensor says 80C and the heatsink hotspot is reading 76C, then surely the basic paste is doing its job, no?


----------



## Mussels (Jul 13, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> Okay, that's an eye-opener for me. I kind of wrote off the TIM as relatively low gains when comparing Sandy (soldered) and Ivy (TIM) - My 3770K gained very little from a delid and running the NH-U12 on the die directly with a shim and some Arctic AS2.
> 
> I figured that the minimal impact of removing of one layer of paste entirely proved that TIM itself wasn't the bottleneck. Subsequent youtube videos of various people pointing FLIR cameras at heatsinks and getting temperatures within a few degrees of the reported die temperatures only cemented that imperfect experiment in my mind. If the on-die sensor says 80C and the heatsink hotspot is reading 76C, then surely the basic paste is doing its job, no?



with intel delid, the gain is from reducing the height - gotta shave off that black silicone and use a super thin TIM layer (such as conductonaut, which can be applied thinner). The flatter the surfaces, the better the gains.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jul 13, 2020)

Mussels said:


> with intel delid, the gain is from reducing the height - gotta shave off that black silicone and use a super thin TIM layer (such as conductonaut, which can be applied thinner). The flatter the surfaces, the better the gains.


I ran it bareback with a composite shim to avoid die-cracking like I last did with my AMD Duron 600@1GHz, and no IHS and the retention frame removed. The NH-U12 spring pressure was increased by adding a couple of washers under each sprint to compensate for the extra z-axis it needed.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 13, 2020)

Turns out a ryzen 1400 and 750ti can do 4k gaming, if you're happy with DX9 low settings and okay with 20FP
S


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jul 13, 2020)

I mean, it can probably run Crysis.

I feel like you should install it and set all the sliders to low at 4K, I'm putting money on double-digit framerates which is more than my* SX-25 could do in Doom.





* - My father and I disagreed about who owned his work-provided Olivetti PC and whether making maps for Doom was work or play.


----------



## Samiam66 (Jul 13, 2020)

Amd's have been cool

Was a intel Xeon user before... Hp  Z workstations  (5 of them)  

Memory compatability has been a ongoing issue for most  ..and Ryzen 7 seem to get a little warm on air
 Aio are a lot quieter .....I find myself leaning over too make sure the pump light is on
Radiator has  2x120mm  pushing  &  2x120mm pulling  & I still have my DVD-RW  & a  3.5  IDontix hot swap
drive bay up front in the normal position..




Sam


----------



## Kanan (Jul 13, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> I stay the hell away from liquid metal. It's horrendous stuff and there's so much potential for it to destroy and it's barely better than paste. Just about the only valid reason to buy some is to experiment with it out of sheer curiousity.
> 
> Sure, if you need those last two degrees then it can give you that, but if your overclock is that close to instability you have bigger problems than what TIM you're using.


IMO, liquid metal is for experienced users who wanna take a risk and especially designed for hardcore overclockers. Everybody else should use the best TIM available and stay away from liquid metal, as it poses too many unnecessary risks for lowish gains. This has nothing to do with delidding though, I'm talking normal usage. If you delid, you basically have to use liquid metal, else it is not even worth delidding in the first place, it would be like, buying a fast racing car and driving it slow around the track.

PS. I had great gains in gaming loading times (actual missions in-game) through the improvements I talked about on the other page. Tested MechWarrior 5 so far. It seems, the clocks are clearly higher now and more stable too.









						Result
					






					www.3dmark.com
				




new 3DM11 record with the new PBO settings. TimeSpy & Firestrike barely changed. All in all, 3DM11 Physics is 6% faster with PBO than without, as shown here: https://www.3dmark.com/compare/3dm11/13828043/3dm11/13952611


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 14, 2020)

Was able to hit 3800 just relaxing tRFC slightly and upping to 1.41V, and IMC didn't seem to have any problems at 1.1V SoC, but the memory ran into an error 50% through HCI. By that point, the sticks were up to only 44C but with close airflow from an A14 iPPC-2000, so I'm not sure if I'm going to explore the rest of the headroom for DJR up to 1.45V. B-die performance only gets further and further away with frequency, and it was only a 1.5-second improvement 3733 to 3800; 3600 to 3733 was a 5-second difference. 

3800 did make it through Membench's short built-in HCI test, but after my 3600 16-18-18 escapades I'm not risking data corruption again with "almost-stable" RAM.





 

3733 is 200% stable at 1.38V/1.1V, overall rather impressed with both what was just a 3600C17 bin of DJR and a rather mediocre (on the cores side) 3700X.

One thing that I have noticed is that my tRFC doesn't scale to what Reous thinks is DJR territory (https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/attachments/trfc-v21-png.508862/), only the typical range for CJR (right at the tip of CJR @ 260ns with 471 at 3600, according to integral), even with extra voltage. Interesting, since otherwise the DJR seems to be performing rather well. 

Any CJR/DJR users can chime in with the minimum tRFC they can do at 3600 or 3733? I can do 450 @ 3600, but it offered no benefit over 471 so I didn't test any further, any lower than 450 is a no-go.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 14, 2020)

Kanan said:


> With some inspiration here I changed some settings: lowered PPT to 170 W from 230 which works as well, 85 limits the CPU too much on all core clocks. Lowered TDC to 170 from 200, this is also to increase all core boost, which benefited greatly, 60 limits it a lot. And finally using the 1 A EDC trick @Mussels suggested.
> 
> Before: CPU all core boosted in Cinebench to about 4050-4150. Not very good. With mussels settings, it was 4000~ all core, but his 1 EDC trick fixed my single boost which was lowered from 4391 to just 4325 over time and now is better than ever at 4450 MHz on multiple cores, which I'm happy with. With the new settings as in the pic, and the 1 EDC bug or trick, the all core boost in CB20 is 4200 MHz constantly and 4150 MHz in Prime95 maximum stress test, which is 150 MHz more than with my old settings which were 230/200/200, as suggested by @buildzoid. As per stock, the CPU only boosts to 3600 MHz in Prime95 maximum stress. For reference: I'm using a 3700X with a Noctua NH-D14. CPU was bought a few months ago.
> 
> ...


Try using Alt+Print Scr for screenshots, they're so much more legible than taking a picture of a screen...
You can also just Ctrl+V them into posts here.


----------



## Kanan (Jul 15, 2020)

Awesome clocks with a 3700X after the new tweaks from last page.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 15, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Try using Alt+Print Scr for screenshots, they're so much more legible than taking a picture of a screen...
> You can also just Ctrl+V them into posts here.



or use TPU capture


----------



## Fry178 (Jul 15, 2020)

@Chrispy
sorry, but ppl that improperly apply/use LM should either RTFM or leave it to someone who can.
the biggest problem with chip heat is to transfer it away fast.
most LMs have up 10x the transfer ability of "normal" paste  (even with silver/copper maybe 5-15W/mK),
so especially with smaller HS/lots of heat you will see much higher gains than on big/low heat chips.

but i like it as it means i have less material between block/HS and have yet to see anyone that can apply TP as thin as it can be with LM.
and as long as you replace it for 1 or 2 more times over a couple of month (so it can saturate block and HS), it wont dry out like all paste will eventually do.

running my 3700  with (auto) pbo on a silent AIO and i dont see temps go past 70C under full load (more depended on room temp),
and is with the added 2080S (full block).


----------



## Kanan (Jul 15, 2020)

Liquid metal vs usual TIM.

Low gains as I said. And like I said, only worth for delidding, and basically a must then too, as normal TIM will not do the trick.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 15, 2020)

Back on topic

My lapped, liquid metal TIM 2700x has its final numbers in
4.1GHz all core OC, 1.337v (proud of that), 16GB 2667MHz 1.2V - 62.6C max load with looped cinebench

Also managed to get my 3700x system to 3200MHz C14, which has never worked before this latest AGESA.


----------



## Kanan (Jul 15, 2020)

Mussels said:


> 1.337v (proud of that)


Great.  Job done.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 15, 2020)

Fry178 said:


> running my 3700  with (auto) pbo on a silent AIO and i dont see temps go past 70C under full load (more depended on room temp),
> and is with the added 2080S (full block).



I would sure as well hope it's under 70C and silent with a big 280mm, bro.  I top out at 73C in stress testing on a DRP4 that also makes very little noise at max speed, and I don't use LM. That's my hot-ass 3700X pulling 1.35V @ all core 4.125 with 83A PBO.



Kanan said:


> Liquid metal vs usual TIM.
> 
> Low gains as I said. And like I said, only worth for delidding, and basically a must then too, as normal TIM will not do the trick.



Optimum's 8700K is already delidded. And it's an 8700K, so it doesn't have any of Ryzen 3000's thermal density problems. Being a delidded 6-core Coffee Lake, the only issue at that point is how well you can push the air that the HS has soaked up out of the system; the Pallas 120 from that video is a kinda suck-ass air cooler that is only relevant to the Ghost S1 because the S1 can't fit any good air coolers. Pallas' six heatpipes are pointless because it has barely any fin surface area, so LM isn't going to do it any favours because it can only handle so much heat.

Add to that the fact that the S1's airflow for air cooling is laughable at best, and I can easily see why LM in that test barely makes any difference. I'd be more interested in seeing how the C14S, U9S and D9L (all of which I have and fit/have fitted in the M1) do with and without LM, on Ryzen 3000, in the M1 or Streacom with intake fans.

On that note, Cooler Master's NR200 is a really interesting case and that $80 price tag is really turning heads as it seems to be a very solid budget direct alternative to the M1.


----------



## Kanan (Jul 15, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> I would sure as well hope it's under 70C and silent with a big 280mm, bro.  I top out at 73C in stress testing on a DRP4 that also makes very little noise at max speed, and I don't use LM. That's my hot-ass 3700X pulling 1.35V @ all core 4.125 with 83A PBO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe this review in particular isn't great, but I can provide endless more sources:








						Thermal Paste Round-up: 85 Products Tested
					

This much-needed update to our thermal paste round-up now includes 85 contenders. It's one of the most comprehensive comparisons available, so we hope you find it useful!




					www.tomshardware.com
				




Here another one, and don't only discard it because it's Toms. This one is with a "good old" FX 8350 CPU. My point still stands, liquid metal is more or less only good for delidding purposes, for normal usage, a good TIM is sufficient, and is way more convenient. Hey, I use really old Arctic MX-2, it was way beyond the expiration date.   Doesn't change the fact, that even with OC the CPU is still easily cooled, even with Prime 95 maximum stress test. Heat problems of Ryzen were greatly exaggerated.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 15, 2020)

Mussels said:


> if you're happy with DX9 low settings and okay with 20FP


No. Just no. 4k is pointless unless at least 60fps can be *maintained* consistently. If not, it's time to drop the resolution and a few settings. The Ryzen is not the bottleneck in that setup, the 750ti is.


----------



## ne6togadno (Jul 15, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> No. Just no. 4k is pointless unless at least 60fps can be *maintained* consistently. If not, it's time to drop the resolution and a few settings. The Ryzen is not the bottleneck in that setup, the 750ti is.


you are not funny


----------



## HD64G (Jul 15, 2020)

Mussels said:


> Back on topic
> 
> My lapped, liquid metal TIM 2700x has its final numbers in
> 4.1GHz all core OC, 1.337v (proud of that), 16GB 2667MHz 1.2V - 62.6C max load with looped cinebench
> ...


Very nice info in this post. I didn't expect that the latest UEFI that was supposed to support the 3X00XT CPUs would help RAM compatibility on Ryzen 2X00 series. Might test it myself when ready.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 15, 2020)

Kanan said:


> Liquid metal vs usual TIM.
> 
> Low gains as I said. And like I said, only worth for delidding, and basically a must then too, as normal TIM will not do the trick.


The use of LM must be combined with the use of proper cooling. The heatsink in that video is not one that can take advantage of the benefits LM has to offer. So of course the benefit was minimum. LM is only one variable in an equation of providing optimal cooling for an extreme OC. Normal, casual usage will never benefit greatly from LM.



ne6togadno said:


> you are not funny


Wasn't trying to be...


----------



## Kanan (Jul 15, 2020)

Mussels said:


> Back on topic
> 
> My lapped, liquid metal TIM 2700x has its final numbers in
> 4.1GHz all core OC, 1.337v (proud of that), 16GB 2667MHz 1.2V - 62.6C max load with looped cinebench
> ...


Some serious effort you did there, any pics for the 2700X system?


----------



## HD64G (Jul 15, 2020)




----------



## droopyRO (Jul 15, 2020)

How many ? ALL of them !


----------



## Kanan (Jul 15, 2020)

Some news.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 15, 2020)

Kanan said:


> Some serious effort you did there, any pics for the 2700X system?



havent taken any recently,  its mostly used for my kid to game on (7 days/ark)
1070Ti also has liquid metal on the die and stock heatsink, lost around 10C - helps a lot with fan noise


----------



## Kanan (Jul 15, 2020)

Mussels said:


> havent taken any recently,  its mostly used for my kid to game on (7 days/ark)
> 1070Ti also has liquid metal on the die and stock heatsink, lost around 10C - helps a lot with fan noiseView attachment 162287


Looks great m8.


----------



## droopyRO (Jul 15, 2020)

Mussels said:


> 1070Ti also has liquid metal on the die and stock heatsink, lost around 10C


I have the same card. It's inaudible by default. 
I got it second hand, never replaced the original TIM. But undervolting helped by lowering the temps by about 3-4 ºC. There is my "curve".


----------



## Fry178 (Jul 15, 2020)

@tabascosauz 
With the room at 74 (24C), fans running silent at 500-800rpm (74cfm at 1350rpm) and a pump only doing 70L/H is what surprised me.
and the 3700 doesnt even match my 3600 when it comes to (low) voltage needs so.. 

@lexluthermiester
Even that I agree the 750 is the bottleneck, there is no need for 60fps for every game.
Ive played Rivals thru about 4 times without once seeing the need for 60fps, no matter what res i played at (1440p and now 2160p).


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 15, 2020)

Fry178 said:


> Even that I agree the 750 is the bottleneck, there is no need for 60fps for every game.
> Ive played Rivals thru about 4 times without once seeing the need for 60fps, no matter what res i played at (1440p and now 2160p).


That's a matter of personal perspective. 30fps was considered by many devs to be a standard in years past. There were even game engines than locked to 30fps.  However, those days are behind us. 60fps is considered the golden standard now. As a gamer and a PC seller, I do not consider a system properly build/configured unless it can get a minimum 60fps consistently at the native resolution on offer by the display being matched to the system. The 20fps mentioned previously by @Mussels is completely unacceptable. 4k is nice, but not at 20fps and there is no way that 750ti will deliver that 20fps consistently.


----------



## Fry178 (Jul 15, 2020)

Sure, but enough games out there that dont need more, just to be playable,
especially when looking at console.
and fact is, more and more tvs (and monis) are now getting VRR, making the need for "constant/locked in" fps a lot less relevant.

I rather have a 43/49in uhd tv with vrr running a 2070,
than a vsynced moni running a ti@60.


----------



## pantherx12 (Jul 16, 2020)

All this talk of liquid metal makes me want to put it on my 3900 but that would definitely void my laptop warranty.

Something to look forward to when it expires though.

Still this unbalanced power draw would help things along massively.


----------



## Kanan (Jul 16, 2020)

30 fps feels sluggish and slow compared to 60. And 120 FPS feels even better than 60. Facts. If you can't see it, maybe you're just in denial. But 30 fps is only good for movies, not gaming ("cinematic gaming experience" my ass   ). For gaming it is the bare minimum, but I have to say, I even played successfully with less than 15 fps. The Fraps recording tool fucked my fps back then: 








There is a fps counter in the middle part of the console on the bottom, as well as ping, which is never a issue where i live.
---
Looking forward to Zen 3, @Adored posted a new video with more infos, it will be great I guess.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 16, 2020)

Looks like we got a powerful Zen ally...

__
		http://instagr.am/p/CCs-N1Eh2Z5/


----------



## droopyRO (Jul 16, 2020)

Kanan said:


> But 30 fps is only good for movies, not gaming


I _frame capped_ to 30 fps. in ARMA 3: Contact due bad performance on my 2700X. 
It is a matter of getting used to it. After 5 minutes you won't notice it 
My 8600K @5Ghz got about 8-10 more fps in the same scene compared to the Ryzen. It is the same in Old Man, but in the regular campaign the Ryzen gets to 60 and above in most scenes.
I just want a 6c/12t Ryzen CPU with high IPC that matches or surpasses my "old" 8600K @ 4.7-5Ghz.


----------



## Xzibit (Jul 16, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Looks like we got a powerful Zen ally...
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CCs-N1Eh2Z5/



Now we know why he never wore the black suit... Man likes his R.G.B. 

Was hoping he call Brainiac for troubleshooting tho.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 16, 2020)

Xzibit said:


> Now we know why he never wore the black suit... Man likes his R.G.B.
> 
> Was hoping he call Brainiac for troubleshooting tho.


I can just vision him hitting the bottle in the home bar due to Xmp boot loops ,then his evil twin turning up, to f shit up stroppy kid style.


Oops sorry wrong cannon. 

And century doh


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 16, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Looks like we got a powerful Zen ally...
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CCs-N1Eh2Z5/


I wish I was there to give him tips and guide him through that build...

The Barry White was a nice touch... Pun intended...


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 19, 2020)

Apparently my Ryzen 5 3600 is dead. I haven’t had the case open until right now. All I did was play Skyrim then shutdown as I was leaving for work.

Since I got home from work it won’t post. It just sits on the debug LED for the CPU. Finally gave up and swapped the 3600 for the Ryzen 3 1200 I still have, the computer posted on first push of the power switch.

Thinking of swapping the 1200 for the 3600 and try one last time. I wasn’t using PBO, I disabled it so XFR boosting to 4.2 GHz was it.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 19, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> Apparently my Ryzen 5 3600 is dead. I haven’t had the case open until right now. All I did was play Skyrim then shutdown as I was leaving for work.
> 
> Since I got home from work it won’t post. It just sits on the debug LED for the CPU. Finally gave up and swapped the 3600 for the Ryzen 3 1200 I still have, the computer posted on first push of the power switch.
> 
> Thinking of swapping the 1200 for the 3600 and try one last time. I wasn’t using PBO, I disabled it so XFR boosting to 4.2 GHz was it.



check the pins, follow my bad example


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 19, 2020)

Mussels said:


> check the pins, follow my bad example


The pins are fine, nothing missing, no tarnishing/discoloring, and falls into the socket without resistance.

I did notice a reduction in CPU benchmark scores in AIDA64 over what it’s always benches yesterday. Did it degrade?


----------



## Mussels (Jul 19, 2020)

could well be a random failure, for sure


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 19, 2020)

I can get it to post again once after swapping the CPUs but after that nothing. The 1200 though posts everytime. :/


----------



## entropy13 (Jul 21, 2020)

entropy13 said:


> OK So I just opted to adjusting PPT. It's at 80W (running at 3.6GHz) and it no longer goes beyond 80C on Cinebench.
> 
> In-game temps (Grid: Autosport) never went beyond 73C, so that's good as well. Looks like just changing PPT already did a lot.



Had some time for finetuning so I set it to 3.8GHz now - the temp difference is negligible compared to 3.6GHz, so no point sacrificing that small performance boost.

And CPB is the biggest culprit of bringing the stock cooler to 95C anyway, PPT and vcore offset just brought a 4C decrease; turning off CPB lowered temps by 11C. LOL


----------



## Mussels (Jul 21, 2020)

Has anyone with an all core overclock noticed that benches/temps still change with PBO settings?

I've noticed some oddities there


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Jul 21, 2020)

@Mussels how on earth did you get the 3700X to OC 4.3 on all core with 1.2v? Mine is stable at 1.325v @4.3 and it is a brand new CPU (got it replaced recently)


----------



## AsRock (Jul 21, 2020)

HD64G said:


>



How many cores you need now ?, what about people who keep there computers for years longer, as games are getting more demanding and started to use more cores it might be worth having more cores.

I was starting to notice games on my old 3770k getting loaded 75%.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 21, 2020)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> @Mussels how on earth did you get the 3700X to OC 4.3 on all core with 1.2v? Mine is stable at 1.325v @4.3 and it is a brand new CPU (got it replaced recently)



No idea, silicon lottery?

Just end tasked a few background processes...







I gotta debloat my OS or something


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Jul 21, 2020)

Mussels said:


> No idea, silicon lottery?
> 
> Just end tasked a few background processes...
> 
> ...


Nice, what kind of temps do you get? did you use any torture software to test for stability?


----------



## Mussels (Jul 21, 2020)

cinebench with a 600 second loop tends to be a great starting point, threw another zero on that and walked away and let it test

it seems to trigger the black screen crash so much faster than any other stress testing tools

I feel like all the software for my peripherals/RGB etc i whats eating the CPU usage, as i can vary from 4900 to 5200 points depending whats running when it's already slimmed down...


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 21, 2020)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> @Mussels how on earth did you get the 3700X to OC 4.3 on all core with 1.2v? Mine is stable at 1.325v @4.3 and it is a brand new CPU (got it replaced recently)





Mussels said:


> silicon lottery


Pretty much this. I have yet to see an example of the 3000 series that can not hit 4.3 or 4.4 all core. The voltage requirements are effectively the only variable.


----------



## Xzibit (Jul 23, 2020)

New Chipset Drivers w/ AMD Ryzen 4000 G-Series Desktop Processors support

*AMD Chipset Drivers
Revision Number
2.07.14.327
File Size
48 MB
Release Date
7/21/2020*

*Supports:*

3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ Processors
3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor
2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ Processor
2nd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor
AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor
AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ Processor
AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor with Radeon™ Graphics
AMD Ryzen™ Mobile Processor with Radeon™ Graphics
7th-Gen AMD A-Series Processors
AMD B350 Chipset
AMD A320 Chipset
AMD X370 Chipset
AMD X399 Chipset
AMD B450 Chipset
AMD X470 Chipset
AMD X570 Chipset
AMD B550 Chipset
        AMD TRX40 Chipset

*Package Includes:*

        AMD Chipset Drivers
        AMD Ryzen™ Power Plans (required for UEFI CPPC2 in Windows® 10 May 2019 Update)


----------



## Fleetwire (Jul 23, 2020)

Am I allowed to post my ascension to Ryzen in this thread? Because it's happening next month.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 23, 2020)

Fleetwire said:


> Am I allowed to post my ascension to Ryzen in this thread? Because it's happening next month.


Absolutely!


----------



## Fleetwire (Jul 23, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Absolutely!


Noted, be back with a Ryzen 9 3900x.


----------



## BlindZenDriver (Jul 24, 2020)

So I build this new machine and was curious to see how many cores would reach the 4200 Mhz max boost clock of my Ryzen 3600, only to find that from what I can see they all do and they do so simultaneously.






I thought the concept was the CPU would have 3600 Mhz as the all core base and that it would then clock individual cores up to the 4200 Mhz, but that it would be just a couple of cores doing so and it would then be alternating between them to spread the heat. Have I misunderstood something? Somehow gotten hold of a very well performing Ryzen 3600 or?

I have done nothing in terms of tweaking any settings, the only exception is I have made the motherboard use the XMP memory info, so it runs the ram at 3600 Mhz CL 16 which is also the specs given for the ram I bought.

I am curious - if all cores can run 4200 Mhz out of the box could I then perhaps change the max boost clock to something higher and get more performance, even without having to change voltage settings?


Also a somewhat related question, using OpenHardwareMonitor it only shows the RPM of 4 of the 6 fans connected to the motherboard and also only 7 of the 8 fan controls (two of which have no fans connected). Using MSI Dragon Center I can see all the fan RPM's.



Any idea on how to fix that in OpenHardwareMonitor?


----------



## thesmokingman (Jul 24, 2020)

Don't use openhardwaremon...

Use hwinfo64, and look at effective clock for the real clockspeed.


----------



## manofthem (Jul 24, 2020)

Got a new build going and trying to get some stability happening.

3900x is at 4.1 @1.2v, which doesn't sound too great just yet.  I'm quite confident that I'm going to need some help in getting the most out of this.


----------



## BlindZenDriver (Jul 24, 2020)

thesmokingman said:


> Don't use openhardwaremon...
> 
> Use hwinfo64, and look at effective clock for the real clockspeed.



Interesting - I shall give it a good look.

Part of my reson to use OpenHardwareMonitor is a tool called FanControl that uses an API that is OpenHardwareMonitor. I have not tried it yet due to the issue with not all fans shown, but supposedly FanControl will let you setup fan profiles that use several sensors as triggers ie. one can have fans rpms be the result of fx. motherboard and/or CPU temperatures.

More on FanControl here: https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1099996-fancontrol-my-take-on-a-speedfan-replacement/


----------



## AsRock (Jul 24, 2020)

Yeah another vote here for HWiinfo64,   i left mine on auto and just watched which core(s) was the lowest which was about 4.29 all core so i just set mine too 4.2 and then tweaked the voltages.



manofthem said:


> Got a new build going and trying to get some stability happening.
> 
> 3900x is at 4.1 @1.2v, which doesn't sound too great just yet.  I'm quite confident that I'm going to need some help in getting the most out of this.



I ended up at 1.275 @ 4.2.


----------



## manofthem (Jul 24, 2020)

AsRock said:


> I ended up at 1.275 @ 4.2.



That actually is starting to sound really good. I'm a little surprised by how much these chips vary. Seems I got some computational errors at my settings so dropped it back to 4@1.15, which worked before. Testing that now.


Anybody using a 3900x on the stock cooler?


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 24, 2020)

manofthem said:


> That actually is starting to sound really good. I'm a little surprised by how much these chips vary. Seems I got some computational errors at my settings so dropped it back to 4@1.15, which worked before. Testing that now.


Not surprising when your trying to overclock two CCD dies, and the quality of the cores on one does vary in the top clockspeed it comfortably runs at.

Just be careful your not pushing it to hard with the voltage.  The all cores  during a heavy load amperage is what kills.


----------



## Caring1 (Jul 24, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> Not surprising when your trying to overclock two CCD dies, and the quality of the cores on one does vary in the top clockspeed it comfortably runs at.
> 
> Just be careful your not pushing it to hard with the voltage.  The all cores  during a heavy load amperage is what kills.


Don't they have per CCD overclocking so they can be done independent of each other?


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 24, 2020)

Caring1 said:


> Don't they have per CCD overclocking so they can be done independent of each other?


Yes, in Ryzen Master or the BIOS.


----------



## manofthem (Jul 24, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> Not surprising when your trying to overclock two CCD dies, and the quality of the cores on one does vary in the top clockspeed it comfortably runs at.
> 
> Just be careful your not pushing it to hard with the voltage.  The all cores  during a heavy load amperage is what kills.



Sounds like good info, thanks.  As you say, I don't want to kill it with voltage, but I do plan to run it under WCG so that means maxed all the time, maybe with an occasional rest.  At the time I'm more limited by temps, but once the new cooler comes in, it should allow for some additional pushing of the CPU.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 24, 2020)

manofthem said:


> Sounds like good info, thanks.  As you say, I don't want to kill it with voltage, but I do plan to run it under WCG so that means maxed all the time, maybe with an occasional rest.  At the time I'm more limited by temps, but once the new cooler comes in, it should allow for some additional pushing of the CPU.


It’s not the voltage that kills but the total measured amperage of all cores firing away. Hence the scaling back of voltage, and clockspeed as the cores pick up load in the default/auto factory state.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 24, 2020)

manofthem said:


> Sounds like good info, thanks.  As you say, I don't want to kill it with voltage, but I do plan to run it under WCG so that means maxed all the time, maybe with an occasional rest.  At the time I'm more limited by temps, but once the new cooler comes in, it should allow for some additional pushing of the CPU.



For most users, fixed Vcore between 1.2-1.3V and under 80C should allow for a long, fulfilling life. But as you're crunching all the time, probably shoot for 1.25V or below and cool it with any respectable 120mm tower equal to or better than a Dark Rock Slim or U12S. Should allow for 4.1GHz all core at the very least, which is more or less the maximum all-core you'd get from default Precision Boost. I'm sure you won't be hankering for a tiny bit more benchmark score anyways


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 24, 2020)

My early attempts when I first got the 3600 at a all core overclock of 4.2 GHz at a higher Vcore may been what killed my Ryzen 5 3600. After that I noticed I wasn’t able to use any of PBO predefined options. Before that it would work with PBO.


----------



## manofthem (Jul 24, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> For most users, fixed Vcore between 1.2-1.3V and under 80C should allow for a long, fulfilling life. But as you're crunching all the time, probably shoot for 1.25V or below and cool it with any respectable 120mm tower equal to or better than a Dark Rock Slim or U12S. Should allow for 4.1GHz all core at the very least, which is more or less the maximum all-core you'd get from default Precision Boost. I'm sure you won't be hankering for a tiny bit more benchmark score anyways



My goal is to keep voltages low and even the core clocks low to be safe.  The 1600x has been solid and stable with a slight overclock, which was kept moderate since it too crunched for a long time.  Once the 360 AIO comes in, I'd love to shoot for a 4.2 OC, so we'll see how it goes in the next few days.


----------



## thesmokingman (Jul 24, 2020)

BlindZenDriver said:


> Interesting - I shall give it a good look.
> 
> Part of my reson to use OpenHardwareMonitor is a tool called FanControl that uses an API that is OpenHardwareMonitor. I have not tried it yet due to the issue with not all fans shown, but supposedly FanControl will let you setup fan profiles that use several sensors as triggers ie. one can have fans rpms be the result of fx. motherboard and/or CPU temperatures.
> 
> More on FanControl here: https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1099996-fancontrol-my-take-on-a-speedfan-replacement/



Outside of hwinfo and cpuz, all other monitoring apps create more problems than they are worth with respect to Ryzen cpus. As for fan control, use the bios? You have a Unify, it should have great fan control.









						Reports of Ryzen 3000 High Idle Voltage Exaggerated, a Case of the "Observer Effect"
					

With AMD's 3rd generation Ryzen processors finally falling into the hands of PC enthusiasts, many early-adopters are taking to tech communities such as ours, to share their experiences with others. A trend appears to be emerging of users reporting higher-than-usual voltages for these processors...




					www.techpowerup.com
				









						Effective clock vs instant (discrete) clock
					

It has become a common practice for several years to report instant (discrete) clock values for CPUs. This method is based on knowledge of the actual bus clock (BCLK) and sampling of core ratios at specific time points. The resulting clock is then a simple result of ratio * BCLK. Such approach...




					www.hwinfo.com
				




Create your own layout using hwinfo...






						Build: 3970x, dual 2080ti, 8TB m.2 RAID = Render Monster
					

At 95c the chip throttles down.  That's kind of the point to the test.




					hardforum.com


----------



## manofthem (Jul 24, 2020)

thesmokingman said:


> Outside of hwinfo and cpuz, all other monitoring apps create more problems than they are worth with respect to Ryzen cpus. As for fan control, use the bios? You have a Unify, it should have great fan control.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for that link. I've encountered what appears to be that very issue, so it was a nice read to better understand what's going on.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 25, 2020)

Interestingly my new Ryzen 7 3800X is overclocking itself slightly for single thread load another 25-50 MHz above 4.5 GHz. 
PBO is disabled so XFR2 is doing the overclock? With all cores loaded it starts out at 4.275 GHz then slowly drops back on clock speed, lowest I seen was 4.175 GHz. 
Temperature was just under 70°C, seems this Hyper 212 Black Edition is holding it back?


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 25, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> Interestingly my new Ryzen 7 3800X is overclocking itself slightly for single thread load another 25-50 MHz above 4.5 GHz.
> PBO is disabled so XFR2 is doing the overclock? With all cores loaded it starts out at 4.275 GHz then slowly drops back on clock speed, lowest I seen was 4.175 GHz.
> Temperature was just under 70°C, seems this Hyper 212 Black Edition is holding it back?



Sounds like you've got a very promising chip there. R20 @ 4.2+ stock all core only being 70C under load with that cooler seems like the chip isn't calling for much voltage at all.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 25, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> R20 @ 4.2+ stock all core only being 70C under load with that cooler seems like the chip isn't calling for much voltage at all.


I was messing around with 7Zip.

Single Thread:


Sixteen Threads:


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 25, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Sounds like you've got a very promising chip there. R20 @ 4.2+ stock all core only being 70C under load with that cooler seems like the chip isn't calling for much voltage at all.


Yeah, I would call that a good sample, possibly golden!


----------



## BlindZenDriver (Jul 25, 2020)

thesmokingman said:


> Outside of hwinfo and cpuz, all other monitoring apps create more problems than they are worth with respect to Ryzen cpus. As for fan control, use the bios? You have a Unify, it should have great fan control.
> 
> <SNIP>



Thank you for the info - more to consider than I expected 

Now on fans. Unfortunately hwinfo also doesn't show all the fans, so same issue there as with OpenHardwareMonitor - I think I will stick with having configured my 3 case fans identically and I therefore can with some degree of certainty can expect them to behave the same (although I prefer control than just going by expectation). I can monitor them with the MSI Dragon Center that is just rather cumbersome + from your info on how tools should monitor the Ryzen CPU's it also may come with other issues.

The Unity does have essentially the same control as one also have in Dragon Center which is good, but I do like the idea of having the fans being controlled by more than one metric. Only that is then just FanControl that supposedly offer that, so a no go atm since it uses OpenHardwareMonitor API.

Btw. As for the CPU cores and how their speed is being reported by HWInfo. What I can see is that all six cores happily will do 4200 Mhz, but giving Cinebench a go what happens then is looks like they alternate between 4125 and 4200 Mhz so the all cores 4200 Mhz is just briefly and more like all the cores alternate a bit only so fast it isn't really picked up.

I shall leave it as is for now and then perhaps get back to tweaking when I have more time to be systematic about it.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 27, 2020)

replaced the thermal paste on my ryzen 1400 system with the wraith prism
she just likes the 60C mark, and slooooooowly builds up heat no matter the paste used, stock, generic CM crap, or kryonaut.

Might just be the fan profile the board uses, not sure.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 27, 2020)

The Wraith Prism cooler that came bundled with my 3800X has the roughest machine finish I’ve seen on any air cooler. It looks all most as bad as the older Hyper 212 I had with a deep gouge in one of the center heat pipes.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 27, 2020)

i definitely see some gap lines between the heatpipes, its such a nice cooler overall tho :\


----------



## AsRock (Jul 27, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> The Wraith Prism cooler that came bundled with my 3800X has the roughest machine finish I’ve seen on any air cooler. It looks all most as bad as the older Hyper 212 I had with a deep gouge in one of the center heat pipes.



Both get made in the same place ?.  Pretty sure i heard they were.

Mine was a bit ruff around the edges too,  gotta watch out for those fakes too.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 27, 2020)

Mussels said:


> she just likes the 60C mark





Mussels said:


> Might just be the fan profile the board uses, not sure.


Something is not right. That is a not a good nominal operating temp.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 28, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Something is not right. That is a not a good nominal operating temp.



its a load temp, not idle


----------



## manofthem (Jul 28, 2020)

Just a little visual update on the 3900X build.  Still messing with the lighting, but my kids chose the green for now; strange choice for an AMD build, I know.   Some new fans just came in with some lighting capabilities that I've yet to install, maybe tomorrow.

With the DeepCool AIO the CPU is crunching at a steady average of about 55-56*C, with an occasional spike here or there.  Not bad.

(about the AIO, the pump block combo is very big/tall, much bigger than any other AIO I used back in the day, but since it's pretty (to me) it's a doable sacrifice.)


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 28, 2020)

Mussels said:


> its a load temp, not idle


Ah, ok I misunderstood. In that case 60C isn't bad. It's not great, but it could be worse.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 3, 2020)

So lately I've been running into these "CPU bus/interconnect errors" showing up in HWInfo as WHEA errors. They are marked as "information", but aside from the obvious in the name there are a few reasons why I highly suspect the Infinity Fabric wasn't particularly happy at 1866MHz. I know that the Matisse IMC can do much better than this, so IF must be the weak link.





The only time they ever show up is during intense firefights in Insurgency Sandstorm, which by usual standards is not a very CPU-demanding game. Sometimes, nothing will happen and I'll find out later when I open up HWInfo again; other times, it'll completely freeze the game into a black screen, which Alt + Tab cannot save and I have no other way of getting out of unless I ⊞Win + Tab and move the game into its own desktop, then come back to my default desktop to kill the process with Task Manager.

All variations on my 3733 profile are doubly stable through long nights of HCI. When my DJR isn't happy, it'll freeze, throw testing errors and very quickly start corrupting my data, so this isn't that.

I tried throwing more VSOC at it up to 1.15V, but evidently the overclockers' wisdom is still true as going beyond 1.1V yields no stability benefits. More VDRAM and poking at various timings didn't help, obviously, as this isn't a memory issue. Same goes for procODT, setup and drive strengths, obviously.

It was only then that I realized that Asus seems to have some incredibly wack ideas as to what VDDP and VDDG (both of them) should be when default.

VDDG was showing up at 1.1V, probably both of them because no reason they should be different stock. Considering that VSOC itself was at 1.1V, this didn't seem to make sense. I did rifle through some old Matisse know-how and Stilt speculated that VDDG should trail VSOC by at least 0.04V as it piggybacks off VSOC. Ended up chopping 0.05V off both of them.
VDDP was low at 0.9V. 1usmus seems to think it's still well within acceptable range, but looking around 0.950V seems to be a good place to be. VDDP is the one that can be increased to help support higher speeds.




I had never really thought about the minor rails much, as I can never remember which one is which. If errors persist, will probably bump VDDP up further to maybe 1.0V or reduce I/O VDDG a little bit. I really don't want to give up here, because from 3600 to 3733 is a 5-second gain in Membench and exactly 2.0ns in AIDA while going further to 3800 is just 1-2 seconds and 0.5ns.

Didn't manage to trip any errors today, but I gotta wait at least a couple of days before passing any judgment on this whole thing. It is, though, as good a reminder as any that if you're pushing the IF beyond 1800MHz, check HWInfo now and then for WHEA errors, and check your secondary voltages.


----------



## Mussels (Aug 3, 2020)

removed all the bloat software from my system.

Using SIV for corsair hardware control (saving settings to my commander pro for lights+fans), of all things the razer synapse software is actually light on bloat.


----------



## pantherx12 (Aug 3, 2020)

Mussels said:


> removed all the bloat software from my system.
> 
> Using SIV for corsair hardware control (saving settings to my commander pro for lights+fans), of all things the razer synapse software is actually light on bloat.



Did you try changing priority of cinebench first before removing your bloat?

I've noticed as default it runs below normal priority and has to be set manually each time it's loaded.

Sorry if it seems a silly question but easy to overlook.


----------



## Mussels (Aug 3, 2020)

pantherx12 said:


> Did you try changing priority of cinebench first before removing your bloat?
> 
> I've noticed as default it runs below normal priority and has to be set manually each time it's loaded.
> 
> Sorry if it seems a silly question but easy to overlook.



I want that improved performance for games too, not just CB


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 5, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> So lately I've been running into these "CPU bus/interconnect errors" showing up in HWInfo as WHEA errors. They are marked as "information", but aside from the obvious in the name there are a few reasons why I highly suspect the Infinity Fabric wasn't particularly happy at 1866MHz. I know that the Matisse IMC can do much better than this, so IF must be the weak link.
> 
> It is, though, as good a reminder as any that if you're pushing the IF beyond 1800MHz, check HWInfo now and then for WHEA errors, and check your secondary voltages.



So it turns out that either VDDP or VDDG was the issue after all, and 3733MT/s shouldn't need beyond 1.10V SOC. Settings are now 1.1V SOC, 1.05V VDDG CCD (down from 1.1V), 1.03V VDDG IOD (down from 1.1V), and 1.0V VDDP (up from 0.9V). 

Also ran into a single memory error while running overnight so I upped DRAM another 0.01V to 1.39V. No problems running HCI overnight now.





Can't reproduce any Infinity Fabric errors now, hard as I have been trying in testing and gaming.


----------



## Fleetwire (Aug 5, 2020)

I'll be back soon.


----------



## newconroer (Aug 6, 2020)

Interested in coming over to Red side, trying to decide on B550 or X570.
B550 - no chipset fan (rejoice!) Has better LAN, Wifi, DisplayPort 1.4  (!) and 1220 audio
X570 - something about PCIE 4 on the second M2 slot and the chipset - which means my second (someday) NVME could theoretically run faster and any PCIE slotted cards I have (non GPU), might perform better..theoretically?
Not sure how this helps future proofing in relation to CPU or GPU

What's my real concern here between the two when using a 3700x?
Struggling to justify the X570 now

And for budget? eh, I don't want to pay extra for fancy lights I cannot see, if that helps clarify.


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 6, 2020)

newconroer said:


> B550 - no chipset fan (rejoice!) Has better LAN, Wifi, DisplayPort 1.4 (!) and 1220 audio
> X570 - something about PCIE 4 on the second M2 slot and the chipset - which means my second (someday) NVME could theoretically run faster and any PCIE slotted cards I have (non GPU), might perform better..theoretically?
> Not sure how this helps future proofing in relation to CPU or GPU


The chipset uplink to the CPU is PCIe 4 over the x4 lanes for the X570. General purpose lanes from the chipset to the slots on the motherboard are PCIe 4 for the X570.












						B550 Vs X570 Motherboards: What's The Difference?
					

B550 vs X570, what's better? We take a closer look at some differences that will separate AMD's new B550 chipset from the X570 chipset.




					www.wepc.com


----------



## Xzibit (Aug 8, 2020)

Finally got around to updating the BIOS to AGESA v2 1.0.0.2. Was waiting on it to be FINAL instead of BETA for my MB. Besides the usual small UEFI things switching and improving, while in games it seams smoother.


----------



## Nuckles56 (Aug 8, 2020)

newconroer said:


> Interested in coming over to Red side, trying to decide on B550 or X570.
> B550 - no chipset fan (rejoice!) Has better LAN, Wifi, DisplayPort 1.4  (!) and 1220 audio
> X570 - something about PCIE 4 on the second M2 slot and the chipset - which means my second (someday) NVME could theoretically run faster and any PCIE slotted cards I have (non GPU), might perform better..theoretically?
> Not sure how this helps future proofing in relation to CPU or GPU
> ...


My gigabyte X570 board got much better to live with, as one of the later firmware updates has introduced a 0RPM mode and now the chipset fan only spins up when it actually needs to which is much better then the old running the whole time like the original firmware did which was beginning to shit me and I was getting ready to put a noctua 40mm on it instead


----------



## Atomic77 (Aug 12, 2020)

My HP Laptop with Ryzen 5 3500u has been really smooth so far. I first got it July 9, 2020.


----------



## entropy13 (Aug 17, 2020)

entropy13 said:


> Had some time for finetuning so I set it to 3.8GHz now - the temp difference is negligible compared to 3.6GHz, so no point sacrificing that small performance boost.
> 
> And CPB is the biggest culprit of bringing the stock cooler to 95C anyway, PPT and vcore offset just brought a 4C decrease; turning off CPB lowered temps by 11C. LOL



Small update here - having an additional intake fan and replacing the stock exhaust fan of the case (which IS the 2nd intake now) with something more powerful actually brought down temps even further.

So the stock cooler now runs at 73C in Cinebench, when before it's 80C. In-game temps don't go beyond 70C now, holding steady in the 60s. Previously it was around the 67-73C range, now it's 63-68C.


----------



## pantherx12 (Aug 26, 2020)

Sanity check please, is it just me or are the technicians for the people who sold me my laptop completely ignorant?

My understanding is that all 65w Ryzen parts have a power draw of 88w stock.

Is like they think power draw and tdp are the same thing, how can the be classed as technicians?

Every ryzen master screen shot I've seen with 65w CPUs has 88w as the default, even on my son's 2500x .

And the 105w tdp CPUs have 142w.

Am I crazy?

Can people with 65w ryzens please share screen shots on Ryzen master with default settings.

Thank you kindly


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 26, 2020)

Yeah TDP is not PPT, they need to educate themselves. If that laptop had to have the PPT lowered to 65 W it means it can't operate correctly under stock settings.


----------



## pantherx12 (Aug 26, 2020)

Chomiq said:


> Yeah TDP is not PPT, they need to educate themselves. If that laptop had to have the PPT lowered to 65 W it means it can't operate correctly under stock settings.



Thank you, this entire experience with pc specialist has been maddening. They don't seem to know anything about computers. It took them a month to sort out even though I had identified the issue before sending it to them as well. ( One of the CCDs was drawing 20-25% more power at any given clock speed) 

Don't reccomend the company at all. I was supposed to be writing a review for the laptop as well.

Perhaps I still will as the laptop itself when working is a beast .


----------



## Glaceon (Aug 29, 2020)

I said I would be back with my 3900X, here I am. Bent pins after some misfortunes. Nothing half an hour with a mechanical pencil can't fix. Loving this thing.


















And question, is 88C with a 4.02 GHz boost during Aida64 Stability Test after an hour, NH-D15, with CPU fan speeds limited to 1100 rpm max, something to worry about? I have not overclocked or messed with any BIOS settings apart from XMP.


----------



## Mussels (Aug 29, 2020)

temps will be hot under such circumstances, if you go for an all core OC you actually lower temps, as long as you dont go voltages high enough to damage the chip.

Whether it improves or degrades performance varies between chips and uses, however.


----------



## Glaceon (Aug 29, 2020)

Mussels said:


> temps will be hot under such circumstances, if you go for an all core OC you actually lower temps, as long as you dont go voltages high enough to damage the chip.
> 
> Whether it improves or degrades performance varies between chips and uses, however.


Under the tasks I bought the chip for it rarely goes past 65C and hits 74C in cinebench.


----------



## AsRock (Aug 29, 2020)

Glaceon said:


> I said I would be back with my 3900X, here I am. Bent pins after some misfortunes. Nothing half an hour with a mechanical pencil can't fix. Loving this thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As @Mussels said going all core will lower the temps, you might find that you can get some were like 4.2-4.3 all core and voltages below 1.3v,  mine at 4.2 voltage required is 1.275v and run CB and get 79c with a ambiant of 33-34c

Good Luck.


----------



## Glaceon (Aug 29, 2020)

Uh, I'll just wait for ClockTuner for Zen 2... lol. Never overclocked a CPU or messed with any related settings really


----------



## lexluthermiester (Aug 30, 2020)

Glaceon said:


> And question, is 88C with a 4.02 GHz boost during Aida64 Stability Test after an hour, NH-D15, with CPU fan speeds limited to 1100 rpm max, *something to worry about?*


No, you're fine.


Glaceon said:


> Uh, I'll just wait for ClockTuner for Zen 2... lol. Never overclocked a CPU or messed with any related settings really


It's a 3900X. You really don't need to OC unless you want to tinker. That CPU has power to spare for 98% of all general computing tasks, including gaming.


----------



## droopyRO (Sep 1, 2020)

X570 AORUS ELITE (rev. 1.0) Suport | Plăci de bază - GIGABYTE Romania
					

Calitate durabilă de la GIGABYTE. Plăcile de bază GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ îmbină o gamă de tehnologii şi caracteristici ce oferă utilizatorilor cea mai bună...




					www.gigabyte.com
				





> Update AGESA ComboV2 1.0.8.1 for *New Gen AMD Ryzen* processors support


Hmmm ?


----------



## biffzinker (Sep 1, 2020)

droopyRO said:


> Hmmm ?


Must be Zen 3 support?


----------



## Mussels (Sep 1, 2020)

I doubt they got new XT processors about to launch this close to Zen 3, so its either new APU's or zen 3 IMO


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 1, 2020)

Mussels said:


> I doubt they got new XT processors about to launch this close to Zen 3, so its either new APU's or zen 3 IMO


Seems logical.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 3, 2020)

Sold my B450I Aorus board, bought a B550I Aorus Pro AX, the ridiculously heavy and surprisingly affordable one with a full metal backplate. It's a solid (quite literally) board, BIOS is a fair bit better, and the VRM and temps are light-years ahead of its B450 predecessor (and most other ITX boards for that matter). Things look good, except for this:









Yeah, that's 1.33V. What the hell is this?? This board overvolts RAM by 0.06V above what you set in BIOS. I know Gigabyte loves to do this as my B450 board allowed up to 0.03V above any given setting, but this is getting ridiculous. I finished installing Windows and was doing some HCI when I noticed the default 1.35V XMP VDRAM setting was taking the RAM up to 1.419V.

Putting the geriatric X99-era 4Gb Samsung E-die through its paces for the first time, still lots of work to do:


----------



## biffzinker (Sep 3, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Yeah, that's 1.33V. What the hell is this?? This board overvolts RAM by 0.06V above what you set in BIOS. I know Gigabyte loves to do this as my B450 board allowed up to 0.03V above any given setting, but this is getting ridiculous.


I thought my B450 Tomahawk was bad for over voltage with 1.368 above 1.35.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 3, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> I thought my B450 Tomahawk was bad for over voltage with 1.368 above 1.35.



I guess it just takes some getting used to. The difference is (kind of?) consistent, so just mental math every time I wanna adjust VDRAM.

I have absolutely no idea what's going on, but ol' dinosaur 4Gb Samsung E-die that was rated for 3200 16-16-16-36 just straight up booted 3600 16-18-18-38, and trashed the much newer 8Gb Hynix DJR in *both *AIDA and membench, at comparable voltage, and to add insult to injury it did it *with Geardown enabled*.  

Both are Trident Z sticks, the E-die is a 2x8GB dual rank kit, the DJR is a RGB 2x16GB dual rank kit.

  

What is going on lmao I thought it was ancient and not supposed to even boot 3600 ever, maybe it's really like some users said it was, a sleeper mini B-die

Or maybe the memory traces on this 8-layer board are really that good. My head's spinning, I didn't see this one coming.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 3, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Yeah, that's 1.33V. What the hell is this?? This board overvolts RAM by 0.06V above what you set in BIOS. I know Gigabyte loves to do this as my B450 board allowed up to 0.03V above any given setting, but this is getting ridiculous. I finished installing Windows and was doing some HCI when I noticed the default 1.35V XMP VDRAM setting was taking the RAM up to 1.419V.


I'm wondering if there is a technical reason for this. There's got to be something specific and not just a bug/defect/glitch.


----------



## Chomiq (Sep 3, 2020)

Doesn't it also change depending on the load?


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 3, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> I'm wondering if there is a technical reason for this. There's got to be something specific and not just a bug/defect/glitch.



Since GB does this all the time I'm guessing it's for compatibility purposes. You know, pump a lil extra voltage to make sure the auto 1.35V XMP voltage can run all sorts of ICs without problems.

But I seriously question the need for this on a beefy 8-layer ITX board, where the extra voltage can conceivably result in some serious hotboxing in the cases that one might expect to find these boards. And we know that B-die are temperature sensitive, so lose stability when over 50C.



Chomiq said:


> Doesn't it also change depending on the load?



Funny you should ask that. On Auto (1.35V), the voltage occasionally drops a bit, but when manually entering voltage it only ever goes up. Setting is 1.33V in BIOS, at idle it's 1.38V, during heavy HCI Memtest it's continuously 1.392-1.404V, occasionally goes up to 1.416V for a second.

It looks like the memory VRM has no droop. And no LLC that's at least accessible to the user.

So the E-die does 3600 16-17-17-36 completely stable without a bump in voltage from 1.38V. Sadly, while 16-17-16 benched fine, it's gonna need more than 1.38V to bring tRP and tRCD below 17. And I can't give it more voltage, NCASE M1 gets real hot in games.

  

Overall this was a very pleasant surprise from a kit that Thaiphoon believed was "4Gb D-die". tRFC 351 @ 3600 is 195ns, which is either on the high end for B-die or just outside B-die range depending on who you ask. Might be able to go lower. Still, nice to have better performance than CJR/DJR and Rev.E, all at a very reasonable voltage.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 4, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Since GB does this all the time I'm guessing it's for compatibility purposes. You know, pump a lil extra voltage to make sure the auto 1.35V XMP voltage can run all sorts of ICs without problems.


While that is a fair point, 1.419v seems a bit much. I'm wondering of there is a power drain effect happening that the extra voltage compensates for?


----------



## AlwaysHope (Sep 28, 2020)

Out of curiosity to see what level of OC & RAM speed 1:1 is needed for Zen+ match Zen2@stock?
Managed to do a 4.4GHz manual OC on my trusty old 2600X & discovered (at least according to CPU-Z) it now matches Zen2 in single thread performance albeit with 3533 CL16 ram 1:1


----------



## GoldenX (Sep 28, 2020)

Isn't Zen+ and Zen1 always 1:1? You don't get control over the Infinity Fabric dividers.
Besides that, nice IPC difference on Zen2.


----------



## biffzinker (Sep 28, 2020)

AlwaysHope said:


> Managed to do a 4.4GHz manual OC on my trusty old 2600X


I don’t want to ruin it for you with the OC. Just that I’d be a little concerned with that high voltage of 1.431.

Edit: Seems the voltage should be between 1.375-1.4 for Zen+ when OC?


----------



## AlwaysHope (Sep 28, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> I don’t want to ruin it for you with the OC. Just that I’d be a little concerned with that high voltage of 1.431.
> 
> Edit: Seems the voltage should be between 1.375-1.4 for Zen+ when OC?


Ain't ruining anything, this is not a daily OC. I've had this chip up to 4.5GHz all core/thread before purely for benching.
The Vdroop on this board is typical for it's price range. Even fiddling with LLC options.
Enabling 'extreme' in LLC is the only way out. But didn't want to do for the purposes of this test.



GoldenX said:


> Isn't Zen+ and Zen1 always 1:1? You don't get control over the Infinity Fabric dividers.
> Besides that, nice IPC difference on Zen2.


You can change the synchronicity with BLCK . Some boards will do it, some won't.


----------



## Nordic (Sep 28, 2020)

I don't know if you guys remember me seeking help with memory issues back around page 89. My memory couldn't run at XMP sometimes, didn't overclock at all, and sometimes couldn't run anything above 2133mhz sometimes, and I had unusually high latency when I could get it to run at XMP speeds. We concluded that it was corsair memory not playing well with AMD systems. I finally decided to buy new ram and see if it makes a difference. I will post results later this week.


----------



## Nordic (Sep 30, 2020)

Hey guys, I just found this. Looks interesting. I am setting up to play with it.








						ClockTuner for Ryzen (CTR) Guide by 1USMUS
					

In this article, we will talk you through ClockTuner for Ryzen, a handy tool that allows you to further refine ZEN2, Ryzen 3000 performance.... Introduction




					www.guru3d.com


----------



## biffzinker (Sep 30, 2020)

Nordic said:


> Hey guys, I just found this. Looks interesting. I am setting up to play with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just got done messing with it. I'm leaving posts in this thread.








						ClockTuner for Ryzen Simplifies "Zen 2" Overclocking, Squeezes Out Double-digit Percent Performance
					

Or maybe you're the one that's clueless and doesn't know how to use it? It worked perfectly fine for me with CJR modules. I'm up 200MHz with lower latency than my modules were sold as and that's with four sticks. So please keep your opinions to yourself.   Its his experience with the tool; I...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Nordic (Oct 2, 2020)

Nordic said:


> I don't know if you guys remember me seeking help with memory issues back around page 89. My memory couldn't run at XMP sometimes, didn't overclock at all, and sometimes couldn't run anything above 2133mhz sometimes, and I had unusually high latency when I could get it to run at XMP speeds. We concluded that it was corsair memory not playing well with AMD systems. I finally decided to buy new ram and see if it makes a difference. I will post results later this week.


Sooooo.............. it must be the cpu because even this memory doesn't like to boot up at the XMP speeds.


----------



## Toothless (Oct 4, 2020)

Swapped cases, stuck more fans in, cleaned heatsink, got a good 10c drop on the core. Decided to play around with CPU-z benchies and here we go.





Still a 0.5v vdroop and I can't shut that off since the BIOS doesn't seem to care what level LLC it's on, so maybe it can stay there and whatever. I'm convinced that if I put in the time I can keep 4.6 for day to day use since under load that was around 1.35v and 1.4v idle (similar to AMD stock spec from what I've seen) 

Take that 3800x. I can match and beat.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 4, 2020)

well shit, thats a high clocking 3700x


----------



## Toothless (Oct 4, 2020)

I'm tempted to see if I can go faster with some sketchy voltages, but between this, the SR-2 rig, and my 4790k stuff I'm pooped out for the day.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Oct 4, 2020)

Nordic said:


> Sooooo.............. it must be the cpu because even this memory doesn't like to boot up at the XMP speeds.


What's the new ram?


----------



## Nordic (Oct 4, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> What's the new ram?


I went with the F4-3600C16D-32GTZNC rather than the patriot because it was on sale and had the "made for ryzen" thing going on. It is in the QVL list. I have tried two different motherboards, two different sets of memory, and I still have trouble running ram at XMP speeds. That only leaves the CPU.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Oct 4, 2020)

Nordic said:


> I went with the F4-3600C16D-32GTZNC rather than the patriot because it was on sale and had the "made for ryzen" thing going on. It is in the QVL list. I have tried two different motherboards, two different sets of memory, and I still have trouble running ram at XMP speeds. That only leaves the CPU.


Good thing I never bothered with XMP after a few tries of it not working. Manual settings are flawless though.


----------



## INSTG8R (Oct 4, 2020)

I forgot I'm in this garden now very happy with my 3700X/Auros X570 Pro/Corsair Vengence Pro 3600 CL18 i've managed to get down to CL16 with little effort I do intend to get the equivalent Zen 3 This was just getting the base system setup


----------



## AsRock (Oct 4, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Good thing I never bothered with XMP after a few tries of it not working. Manual settings are flawless though.



Yeah never worked for my 3900 either.


----------



## biffzinker (Oct 4, 2020)

XMP has worked for me with 5 different brands of DDR4 on a couple of MSI boards with a Ryzen 3 1200, 5 2600X, 5 3600, and 7 3800X. I turn it off, and do my own adjustments.


----------



## INSTG8R (Oct 4, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> XMP has worked for me with 5 different brands of DDR4 on a couple of MSI boards with a Ryzen 3 1200, 5 2600X, 5 3600, and 7 3800X. I turn it off, and do my own adjustments.


My trick is to set the profile to get the voltage and subtimings but then manually input the major timings Bad angle but the right is the XMP and the left are my manual settings


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 4, 2020)

@Nordic does bumping DRAM voltage change anything? The most infuriating thing about Asus boards is that Asus sees fit to cripple whole swathes of their product line from budget all the way to upper midrange by choosing to report very few coherent sensors through their SuperI/O, so you never know what your DRAM voltage actually is. Whereas even though a Gigabyte board might overvolt DRAM voltage, at least it tells you roughly what V the board is seeing, while Asus straight up doesn't even report it in a transparent way to the user. Might have to play with the Vdram a little bit.

Other than that, it is CJR, so there shouldn't be any hidden surprises beyond what we already know. Like with Gigabyte, Asus still allows you to set DOCP and then customize all timings and voltages to your own liking. I like to do this as there are some boards I don't trust to properly identify their correct tertiaries during bootup, without XMP/DOCP telling them that the RAM isn't at 2133.


----------



## Nordic (Oct 5, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Good thing I never bothered with XMP after a few tries of it not working. Manual settings are flawless though.


I have not tried setting the timings manually with the new sticks. I did with the old sticks. That is worth a try.



tabascosauz said:


> @Nordic does bumping DRAM voltage change anything? The most infuriating thing about Asus boards is that Asus sees fit to cripple whole swathes of their product line from budget all the way to upper midrange by choosing to report very few coherent sensors through their SuperI/O, so you never know what your DRAM voltage actually is. Whereas even though a Gigabyte board might overvolt DRAM voltage, at least it tells you roughly what V the board is seeing, while Asus straight up doesn't even report it in a transparent way to the user. Might have to play with the Vdram a little bit.
> 
> Other than that, it is CJR, so there shouldn't be any hidden surprises beyond what we already know. Like with Gigabyte, Asus still allows you to set DOCP and then customize all timings and voltages to your own liking. I like to do this as there are some boards I don't trust to properly identify their correct tertiaries during bootup, without XMP/DOCP telling them that the RAM isn't at 2133.


I have played with the voltage a bit. What is the maximum safe voltage for ddr4?


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 5, 2020)

Nordic said:


> I have not tried setting the timings manually with the new sticks. I did with the old sticks. That is worth a try.
> 
> 
> I have played with the voltage a bit. What is the maximum safe voltage for ddr4?



Have good airflow? 1.45V for CJR daily use. I highly doubt you'll need to set it above 1.4V, though. Shouldn't be that far off.


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## Nordic (Oct 5, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Have good airflow? 1.45V for CJR daily use. I highly doubt you'll need to set it above 1.4V, though. Shouldn't be that far off.


I have an open air case with a fan blowing towards the ram. I think that is good airflow.


----------



## Xzibit (Oct 6, 2020)

Anyone have experience with the New AGESA v2 1.1.0.0 yet? Was just posted for my board.

To try or to wait until its final.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 6, 2020)

*cries in 1.0.0.6*


----------



## Toothless (Oct 8, 2020)

So, even with voltages cranked up I can't get past validating on 4.625 and benching on 4.6. Looks like I found my limit with the 3700x but man does it fly.


----------



## Xzibit (Oct 9, 2020)

Updated to AGESA v2 1.1.0.0 bios (Beta) just to check out.  About the only thing noticeable is just slight re-organizing of some MSI CPU advance options

At least this board is ready for Ryzen 5000 series now.


----------



## Nordic (Oct 12, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Good thing I never bothered with XMP after a few tries of it not working. Manual settings are flawless though.





tabascosauz said:


> Have good airflow? 1.45V for CJR daily use. I highly doubt you'll need to set it above 1.4V, though. Shouldn't be that far off.


DOCP speeds and upping the voltage to 1.45v fails. Keeping the DOCP timings and 1.45v and going down to 3200mhz fails. Using the timings from ryzen dram calculator fails. By fail, I mean it won't even post. I don't even get to windows.

I was having better luck with my corsair memory. At least sometimes I could get it to boot at XMP speeds, but only sometimes. I have tried two different motherboards. I have tried two different sets of memory. My CPU must be the problem here.



Spoiler: Dram Info


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 12, 2020)

Nordic said:


> DOCP speeds and upping the voltage to 1.45v fails. Keeping the DOCP timings and 1.45v and going down to 3200mhz fails. Using the timings from ryzen dram calculator fails. By fail, I mean it won't even post. I don't even get to windows.
> 
> I was having better luck with my corsair memory. At least sometimes I could get it to boot at XMP speeds, but only sometimes. I have tried two different motherboards. I have tried two different sets of memory. My CPU must be the problem here.



Can you run Zentimings? Latest version shows procODT and minor voltages. https://zentimings.protonrom.com/

Aside from that there's not really anything else I can think of. These GTZNC kits are cutting edge CJR (DJR) and rated for just about as good as CJR G.skill come out of the box XMP (I think so far the CJR 3733 Tridents I've seen are all 17 tCL, could be wrong). And isn't this your second motherboard after the Pro4? It's just the CPU that's stayed all this time.

Do you know the batch code on the IHS of your 3900X (if you took a photo of it at any time)? Seven digits with 4 numbers and 3 letters, either xx19xxx or xx20xxx, on the second line of text, above the 13-digit serial number. I'm guessing it must be a Q3 or Q4 2019 manufacture.

If you only just bought the Tridents, I'd probably return them and try something else. Maybe it's a one-off, or maybe it's that SKU.


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## TheLostSwede (Oct 12, 2020)

Nordic said:


> DOCP speeds and upping the voltage to 1.45v fails. Keeping the DOCP timings and 1.45v and going down to 3200mhz fails. Using the timings from ryzen dram calculator fails. By fail, I mean it won't even post. I don't even get to windows.
> 
> I was having better luck with my corsair memory. At least sometimes I could get it to boot at XMP speeds, but only sometimes. I have tried two different motherboards. I have tried two different sets of memory. My CPU must be the problem here.
> 
> ...


First of all, I'd try CAS 16, not 14, as this is Hynix, not Samsung. Also trying increasing the tRFC a bit, as that tends to improve the system stability.
This is what the calculator suggests for my modules at 3600, which clearly aren't as highly binned as yours.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 12, 2020)

@TheLostSwede is right, I completely missed it as I thought the original DRAM calc screenshot was for *3200 *@ 14-17-17 which is mediocre but perfectly within the capabilities of CJR.

@Nordic CJR won't be doing 3600 @ 14. This is why I've been telling people for ages to stop trying to import their XMP into DRAM calc. More often than not over the course of DRAM calc's lifetime, when you put your own XMP in it'll outright run into an application fatal error or even worse, spit out nonsensical timings like these. In this case I can already see that RRDS/L/FAW and WTRS/L/WR are all over the place, neither loose enough for safe or tight enough for even remotely fast. 

DRAM calc works just fine as a general recommendation for the important timings, when you fill out the boxes to the left and simply click on the safe or fast options, which makes the recommendations consistent and sensible. Any further tweaking to the timings you'll have to figure out on your own anyways.


----------



## Nordic (Oct 12, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Can you run Zentimings? Latest version shows procODT and minor voltages. https://zentimings.protonrom.com/


This is on stock default auto settings.







tabascosauz said:


> And isn't this your second motherboard after the Pro4? It's just the CPU that's stayed all this time.
> 
> Do you know the batch code on the IHS of your 3900X (if you took a photo of it at any time)? Seven digits with 4 numbers and 3 letters, either xx19xxx or xx20xxx, on the second line of text, above the 13-digit serial number. I'm guessing it must be a Q3 or Q4 2019 manufacture.


Correct, I have tried two different motherboards and two different memory kits.
I do not know the batch code on my cpu. I am not inclined to take my cooler off right now.



TheLostSwede said:


> First of all, I'd try CAS 16, not 14, as this is Hynix, not Samsung. Also trying increasing the tRFC a bit, as that tends to improve the system stability.
> This is what the calculator suggests for my modules at 3600, which clearly aren't as highly binned as yours.


I did try running Cas 14 but I also tried higher timings too. I tried a variety of timings. I can give your timings a shot.



			
				tabascosauz said:
			
		

> Nordic CJR won't be doing 3600 @ 14. This is why I've been telling people for ages to stop trying to import their XMP into DRAM calc. More often than not over the course of DRAM calc's lifetime, when you put your own XMP in it'll outright run into an application fatal error or even worse, spit out nonsensical timings like these. In this case I can already see that RRDS/L/FAW and WTRS/L/WR are all over the place, neither loose enough for safe or tight enough for even remotely fast.
> 
> DRAM calc works just fine as a general recommendation for the important timings, when you fill out the boxes to the left and simply click on the safe or fast options, which makes the recommendations consistent and sensible. Any further tweaking to the timings you'll have to figure out on your own anyways.


Dram calculator won't work unless I include all the information on the left. What information am I supposed to include if not for the XMP speeds?


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## TheLostSwede (Oct 12, 2020)

Nordic said:


> Dram calculator won't work unless I include all the information on the left. What information am I supposed to include if not for the XMP speeds?


He's talking about importing the file from Thaiphoon burner.
Try with A0/B0 instead of manual.


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## Nordic (Oct 12, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> He's talking about importing the file from Thaiphoon burner.
> Try with A0/B0 instead of manual.


What is the difference between importing the timings and entering the same values manually?


----------



## TheLostSwede (Oct 12, 2020)

Nordic said:


> What is the difference between importing the timings and entering the same values manually?


Well, importing them, you use the data that Thaiphoon burner reads from the EEPROM on the RAM, using the built in settings uses an "average" supposedly working setting calculated by 1usmus. Neither is seemingly perfect. I can run my RAM at tighter timings than suggested, but this seems to be what the tool does at the end of the day, suggest a set of timings that should work. However, it's not flawless and as in your case, it seems like the timings it spits out are a bit off.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 12, 2020)

@Nordic the "PCB revision" box is where you select different profiles based on a perception of the quality of your sticks. A3 is best, A0 is ehhhh, bad bin is the worst (though I don't think CJR has one). Manual is where you would import your XMP from Thaiphoon, or enter by hand. Though or CJR, even the A3 profile is really conservative and shouldn't be a challenge, especially for a 3600@16 rated kit. It looks like our sticks are quite similar, dual rank B1 CJR.

I use this for 3600 and 3733, only changing DRAM voltage and tRFC (471 for 3600). I've gone down to 451 @ 3600 and 468 @ 3733 without problems, but it doesn't bench or perform any differently so I just run 489. On my 4Gb E-die I'm at 350 and can probably flirt with B-die territory, but CJR stays relatively high at a hair under 500 tRFC.



I don't know if there's any merit to trying higher procODT, because I'm pretty sure midrange Asus always defaults to 60ohm for these dual-rank CJR during the training process when DOCP is on (your ATX X570 has a few extra PCB layers but otherwise both TUFs are very similar). Not sure what sort of instability you've been running into, so can't really tell you if upping vSOC and the VDDs will help you. I was running into some IF errors at 3733 because 1.10V SOC would actually droop to ~1.08V so I have to compensate by setting 1.11V in BIOS, but you're only at 3600.

Anecdotally, though, I struggled to get it to pass overnight HCI at 43.6ohms. So maybe for dual rank, Asus' auto-60 does have some value.


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## Nordic (Oct 12, 2020)

Is there a way to see what kind of errors? It won't post so I can't see any codes. Amd doesn't seem to have the same diagnostic tools on their motherboards, so I can't see a boot code. Even the old beep codes do not seem to work


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## GoldenX (Oct 12, 2020)

If you don't get beep codes, something very wrong is going on.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 12, 2020)

Anwar.Shiekh said:


> Earning one half, consuming one eighth





Nordic said:


> Is there a way to see what kind of errors? It won't post so I can't see any codes. Amd doesn't seem to have the same diagnostic tools on their motherboards, so I can't see a boot code. Even the old beep codes do not seem to work



No not the debug LEDs, they're next to useless when you know you're already dealing with memory. I was referring to the "trouble" you mentioned earlier you were having when running XMP, whether it's a memory stability issue (that can be uncovered through HCI/TM5/Karhu etc) or a memory controller issue (intermittently freaks out or struggles to boot, interconnect issues in HWInfo, etc.).


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## Space Lynx (Oct 12, 2020)

When I get my Ryzen 5600X, my goal is to OC the core 0 and core 1 the highest it will go and leave everything else at stock. Is this a good plan? I am going to do a small to medium voltage bump since I will have a 360mm radiator AIO by then, my plan is to OC to core 0 to 4.6 or 4.7 or 4.8 and leave rest of cores at stock.  so only two things I will change in BIOS will be voltage bump and core 0 frequency

is this a good plan or no?  most of the games I play are single core usage only, so I only need to focus on core 0 and core 1 correct?

@TheLostSwede


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## TheLostSwede (Oct 12, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> When I get my Ryzen 5600X, my goal is to OC the core 0 and core 1 the highest it will go and leave everything else at stock. Is this a good plan? I am going to do a small to medium voltage bump since I will have a 360mm radiator AIO by then, my plan is to OC to core 0 to 4.6 or 4.7 or 4.8 and leave rest of cores at stock.  so only two things I will change in BIOS will be voltage bump and core 0 frequency
> 
> is this a good plan or no?  most of the games I play are single core usage only, so I only need to focus on core 0 and core 1 correct?
> 
> @TheLostSwede


This should allow you to do something like that in a better way.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1313494022237941761


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## Space Lynx (Oct 12, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> This should allow you to do something like that in a better way.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1313494022237941761



Won't I be able to push Core 0 higher if I don't mess with any of the other cores? and if most programs games auto read from Core 0 mostly?  I'm just trying to learn I don't know


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## tabascosauz (Oct 12, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> Won't I be able to push Core 0 higher if I don't mess with any of the other cores? and if most programs games auto read from Core 0 mostly?  I'm just trying to learn I don't know



Unless you're playing pretty ancient games (Project Reality BF2 would be the only example for me that's still around) that in the rare instance just refuse to listen to Windows (and in which case a 200MHz overclock would hardly matter anyway), the Windows scheduler interfaces with your Ryzen firmware to allocate lightly threaded loads to the best cores. Until you get your chip and check the CPPC2 data in BIOS or HWInfo you have no idea what the distribution of core quality is. For example in my case Core 5 and 7 can actually sustain close to 4.4GHz in effective clock, while Core 0 couldn't move past 4.28GHz even if you flogged it with 1.4V.


----------



## Space Lynx (Oct 12, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Unless you're playing pretty ancient games (Project Reality BF2 would be the only example for me that's still around) that in the rare instance just refuse to listen to Windows (and in which case a 200MHz overclock would hardly matter anyway), the Windows scheduler interfaces with your Ryzen firmware to allocate lightly threaded loads to the best cores. Until you get your chip and check the CPPC2 data in BIOS or HWInfo you have no idea what the distribution of core quality is. For example in my case Core 5 and 7 can actually sustain close to 4.4GHz in effective clock, while Core 0 couldn't move past 4.28GHz even if you flogged it with 1.4V.



I understand now. Well I think what I will do is just set Windows 10 to Ryzen High Performance power balance, and let my CPU do its thing automatically. just not going to worry about it.  Ryzen sort of killed overclocked sadly, I will miss the glory days of OC'ing 2500k.  BUT it has been fun overclocking ram for the first time, so I will continue to enjoy that thanks to Ryzen


----------



## stinger608 (Oct 12, 2020)

Well, I guess I'd better jump in on this thread. 
I've got a 3700X coming and it should be here on Thursday. 

This will be my first experience with the Ryzen format and I'm looking forward to it. 

I've currently got an AsRock AB350 Pro 4 board that I grabbed pretty reasonable from our own @Durvelle27 a couple of weeks ago. 

Still after some DDR4 at a good price point


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## Space Lynx (Oct 12, 2020)

stinger608 said:


> Well, I guess I'd better jump in on this thread.
> I've got a 3700X coming and it should be here on Thursday.
> 
> This will be my first experience with the Ryzen format and I'm looking forward to it.
> ...



I was half tempted to get a 3700x myself this week, but I think for me since I only game, the two extra cores are not needed, I would benefit more from the IPC lifts and other changes made in 5600X


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## Nordic (Oct 12, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> I understand now. Well I think what I will do is just set Windows 10 to Ryzen High Performance power balance, and let my CPU do its thing automatically. just not going to worry about it.  Ryzen sort of killed overclocked sadly, I will miss the glory days of OC'ing 2500k.  BUT it has been fun overclocking ram for the first time, so I will continue to enjoy that thanks to Ryzen


Don't use the Ryzen High Performance plan. Use this. https://www.techpowerup.com/review/1usmus-custom-power-plan-for-ryzen-3000-zen-2-processors/


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## Zach_01 (Oct 12, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> I understand now. Well I think what I will do is just set Windows 10 to Ryzen High Performance power balance, and let my CPU do its thing automatically. just not going to worry about it.  Ryzen sort of killed overclocked sadly, I will miss the glory days of OC'ing 2500k.  BUT it has been fun overclocking ram for the first time, so I will continue to enjoy that thanks to Ryzen


Best power plan for ZEN2 was/is 1usmus Universal PowerPlan v1.1 
Finds the best cores and load them more in light/middle thread count and gaming.
We don’t know if the same applies to ZEN3, but keep it in mind.



lynx29 said:


> I was half tempted to get a 3700x myself this week, but I think for me since I only game, the two extra cores are not needed, I would benefit more from the IPC lifts and other changes made in 5600X


And we will be pleasantly surprised if the 6 cores of 5600X are matching performance of the 8cores of 3700X.
I’m looking forward for reviews to see if this can be a thing.


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## Space Lynx (Oct 13, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> And we will be pleasantly surprised if the 6 cores of 5600X are matching performance of the 8cores of 3700X.
> I’m looking forward for reviews to see if this can be a thing.


 Buildzoid over at gamersnexus on his latest video already said a 5600x should beat a 3700x in everything across the board. even multithread synthetic benches.  i just watched it on his youtube channel 'actually hardcore overclocking'




Zach_01 said:


> Best power plan for ZEN2 was/is 1usmus Universal PowerPlan v1.1
> Finds the best cores and load them more in light/middle thread count and gaming.
> We don’t know if the same applies to ZEN3, but keep it in mind.



yeah not using that power plan unless it gets updated and officially runs flawless with ZEN3


----------



## Zach_01 (Oct 13, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> Buildzoid over at gamersnexus on his latest video already said a 5600x should beat a 3700x in everything across the board. even multithread synthetic benches.  i just watched it on his youtube channel 'actually hardcore overclocking'


Haven’t seen that yet. That was my estimation by IPC and performance/watt improvements.
I know about buildzoid, I watched a lot of his content.



lynx29 said:


> yeah not using that power plan unless it gets updated and officially runs flawless with ZEN3


Well, as weird as it may sounds, that power plan is more relevant for ZEN2 than any other Windows plan or even Ryzen specific plans. Nevertheless it can’t hurt the CPU even if it’s not really designed for it. And it’s something that you install and instantly see for your self if it does anything with the help of HWiNFO, as long as you know what to look for.
If ZEN3 is the same as ZEN2 in terms of core quality and clock difference, then it will probably work the same.

If I was acquiring a ZEN3 CPU I would give it a try as soon as possible, and all the others of course.


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## Space Lynx (Oct 13, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Haven’t seen that yet. That was my estimation by IPC and performance/watt improvements.
> I know about buildzoid, I watched a lot of his content.
> 
> 
> ...




I'm really hoping ram max limits increase, currently ram is capped at 3800 1:1 infinifty fabric, and I bet with Zen 3 we will get to 4000-4200 range cap at 1:1.  

I really hope I can take my b-die 2x16gb sticks currentl;y at 3600 cas 14-14-14  to say 4200 cas 19-20-20-20  at 1:1  or something like that.  whatever dram calcuatlor for zen 3 recommends anyway!  @1usmus zen 3 dram calculator by end of 2020!  you can do it!!! we believe in you!!!


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## INSTG8R (Oct 13, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Haven’t seen that yet. That was my estimation by IPC and performance/watt improvements.
> I know about buildzoid, I watched a lot of his content.
> 
> 
> ...


Thw powerplansins with the chipset drivers probably mirrors i hs
i initial  attempts wIth AND ultimately knowing everything ireason not  using AMDs plans. I use the=High Performance plan 1usmus plan was because the windows plans were just not right for Amd design. AMD provide  a full sat ma ch more mature than a timely solution to use


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## tabascosauz (Oct 13, 2020)

INSTG8R said:


> Thw powerplansins with the chipset drivers probably mirrors i hs
> i initial  attempts wIth AND ultimately knowing everything ireason not  using AMDs plans. I use the=High Performance plan 1usmus plan was because the windows plans were just not right for Amd design. AMD provide  a full sat ma ch more mature than a timely solution to use



Phone keyboard?

I used to use the Ryzen balanced and 1usmus plans but round about spring 2020 I found the Windows Balanced plan to be surprisingly near-indistinguishable from those two in benchmarks, but also clocking higher in effective clock in-game leading to a smoother experience. For me, once the other two plans caught up, 1usmus plan was all show and no go.

Been seeing more coverage of the Patriot 4400/19 and G.skill 4000/16 kits. Maybe when I get my Vermeer I'll test the waters with my old quasi-Bdie Samsung E to get a feel for whether the performance uplift can be achieved without running into the Bdie 50°C wall.

@Nordic you dont have DOCP on. With it off, Auto SOC is 1.025. Give it 1.1V. Try 60ohms procODT and make sure Geardown is on. Right now, your VDDGs make no sense bc theyre derived from SOC. Them being higher than SOC doesn't work. VDDP shouldn't need to be past 1.0V.


----------



## Nordic (Oct 13, 2020)

I tried these settings just now and it didn't work. I even tried setting the frequency to 3200 and it failed. I haven't tried the settings Swede provided yet.


Spoiler: Bios Screenshots


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## Zach_01 (Oct 13, 2020)

Probably you can forget about high speed memory (>3800). The IO Die will be the same, as copy/paste from ZEN2 package. So the memory support speed will be the same.
Could be different, like more CPUs could make it to the 3800 point, but don’t expect 4000+.


----------



## INSTG8R (Oct 13, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Phone keyboard?
> 
> I used to use the Ryzen balanced and 1usmus plans but round about spring 2020 I found the Windows Balanced plan to be surprisingly near-indistinguishable from those two in benchmarks, but also clocking higher in effective clock in-game leading to a smoother experience. For me, once the other two plans caught up, 1usmus plan was all show and no go.
> 
> ...


 Yeah  iPad need some sleeep so wc my proofreading is getting #loopy if there’s a High Performance Plan I’m using it.makes zero sense my PC runs 24/7 I will  never use sleep or Hibernation I don’t even let  my drives sleep. I just have my monitor. Set to go after 15min


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## Zach_01 (Oct 13, 2020)

@Nordic try this

Spread Spectrum: disabled (if there is such setting)
XMP: off
DRAM multi: x32 (or speed select = 3200MHz)
DRAM voltage: 1.35V
SoC voltage: 1.1V
CLDO_VDDG: 1.0V (1000mV) (both CCD, IOD)
CLDO_VDDP: 0.95V (950mV)
MEMCLK==UCLK
FCLK: 1600MHz
Timings: 16-19-19-19-38-57
tRFC: 494
tRFC2: 367
tRFC4: 226
procODT: 60
Everything else DRAM related: Auto

If that won’t work, increase DRAM voltage to 1.38V. All other the same.

*EDIT:
By mistake I was giving opposite VDDG/VDDP voltage (opposite to each other) Now its correct.*


----------



## GoldenX (Oct 13, 2020)

Got a Comet Lake system for my brother a month ago, it was needed for 3D development so the idea was to cover as many GPU archs as possible, this forced us to get a socket 1200 CPU to include Gen9.5 Intel graphics (instead of the Threadripper I wanted...), along with Pascal, Turing and Polaris. Ampere was on this list until we found out on release that it is just Turing, it has nothing new in the development department.
Anyway, it was built with some cheap Colorful 2x8GB kit at 2666MHz CL19. Decided to test those on my 3400G and oh boy, we hit the lottery. It maxed out the IMC of this Zen+ at 3466MHz, and even manages to boot at up to 3800MHz.

The burner declares it is an unknown Micron die, seems like the only way to confirm will be to check one of the sticks.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Oct 13, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> @Nordic try this
> 
> Spread Spectrum: disabled (if there is such setting)
> XMP: off
> ...


1usmus has stated there's no need to change the secondary tRFC settings, only the primary one matters.


----------



## Zach_01 (Oct 13, 2020)

Yeah, I remember that. Still I’m using it. It’s easy to calculate them.


----------



## GoldenX (Oct 17, 2020)

Anyone has any info on Micron J-die?


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 17, 2020)

GoldenX said:


> Anyone has any info on Micron J-die?



Some say it's closely related to Rev.E, which for all intents and purposes is a great thing if true.

Actual feedback is all over the place. Sticks seem rated out of the box for non XMP 3200 @ JEDEC 1.2V. Some users can't get it stable at mundane speeds. Some Korean dudes tested it up to 3800 16-17-17 (which is insane) and 4200 18-21-21 at pretty reasonable volts. So who knows.

I'd stick to one of the higher speed new gen Ballistix with the new heatspreader, though. They be carrying some potent new Rev.E that seems broadly good for 5000 regardless of factory XMP.


----------



## GoldenX (Oct 17, 2020)

Found some generic cheap Colorful 2666MHz @ 1.2v CL19 RAM, and has J-die (was the cheapest I could get). Can do at least 3800 but my 3400G only takes up to 3466.
Info on them is so scarce and varied...


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 17, 2020)

GoldenX said:


> Found some generic cheap Colorful 2666MHz @ 1.2v CL19 RAM, and has J-die (was the cheapest I could get). Can do at least 3800 but my 3400G only takes up to 3466.
> Info on them is so scarce and varied...



Ryzen 5000 time?   

Here are the crazy Koreans if you know the language/can make sense of Google Translate https://quasarzone.com/bbs/qf_overclocking/views/32108

One distinction I suppose is that these are on a Crucial PCB while yours is not. Otherwise, go to town and treat it like Rev.E (aka timings loose and no real special considerations at all).


----------



## GoldenX (Oct 17, 2020)

Imagine my face when I troll tested 3800MHz 25-25-25 and it booted.
This kit was a nice 40% cheaper than any other 2x8GB kit.

BAPC08G2666D4S8 Y3CC19 if anyone is interested. Seems like they don't care to bin the ICs.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 21, 2020)

Looks like I don't get to life-hack my way to 3733 by adding a little more VSoC, looks like the MTH guide was right, going past 1.10V does no favours for daily stability:




The Kernel-Power events from a BSOD don't tell you anything but the WHEA Logger errors that immediately follow sometimes will. The ten Error and Warning events from WHEA Logger in the past 3 months have all been Bus/Interconnect Errors. Don't need any more hints to tell me what that means, especially not after the r/Publicfreakout my entire rig suffered a few days ago.

VDDP and VDDG are about as far as they should ever go. The DRAM is stable at 1.38V. I'm already up to 1.13V and the BSODs only get more frequent with more volts. They're also getting more frequent with time. The more I do this and I wonder if my CPU might actually kick the bucket.

Back to 3600 it is.  No sense in pushing a June '19 3700X past its limits. Maybe a 5900X next month will change things up.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Oct 21, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Best power plan for ZEN2 was/is 1usmus Universal PowerPlan v1.1
> Finds the best cores and load them more in light/middle thread count and gaming.



Thanks for the tip, I didn't know about it. I tried it out for myself and the new power plan seems to have bumped up performance by 5% on my Ryzen 3100. Nice.


----------



## Xzibit (Oct 21, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Looks like I don't get to life-hack my way to 3733 by adding a little more VSoC, looks like the MTH guide was right, going past 1.10V does no favours for daily stability:
> 
> View attachment 172617
> 
> ...



How did you get it a month early ?

I've kept mine on default/auto


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 21, 2020)

Xzibit said:


> How did you get it a month early ?
> 
> I've kept mine on default/auto



That's damn impressive for 1.044V! Auto for me on all 3 boards is 1.1V, so 1.087V actual. I was already running into interconnect errors then. I guess I could try to go lower just to see, but at this point I'm pretty tired of dealing with BSODs.

No, I got mine at the end of July, but the batch code on the IHS is 1924 - 24th week of 2019, so end of June manufacture. Anyways, 3700X *still* not really renown for their overclockability compared to the other SKUs, and mine was launch-quality, so...  there are worse 3700Xs on CPU clock and worse 3600s on IF clock, but it doesn't get much worse than mine.


----------



## biffzinker (Oct 21, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> That's damn impressive for 1.044V! Auto for me on all 3 boards is 1.1V, so 1.087V actual.


AIDA64 reports the correct SoC voltage as set in the BIOS.


 vs


----------



## toilet pepper (Oct 27, 2020)

I'm a little confused. I've been able to run my 32GB Patriot Memory to 3800Mhz 1:1 FCLK and almost everyone is saying that 3733Mhz is the sweetspot. I've MEMtested this for hours and came up with no errors. Should I lower it to 3733Mhz?


----------



## Chomiq (Oct 27, 2020)

toilet pepper said:


> I'm a little confused. I've been able to run my 32GB Patriot Memory to 3800Mhz 1:1 FCLK and almost everyone is saying that 3733Mhz is the sweetspot. I've MEMtested this for hours and came up with no errors. Should I lower it to 3733Mhz?
> 
> View attachment 173491


People are saying a lot of things. If it's stable for you - congrats.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Oct 27, 2020)

toilet pepper said:


> I'm a little confused. I've been able to run my 32GB Patriot Memory to 3800Mhz 1:1 FCLK and almost everyone is saying that 3733Mhz is the sweetspot. I've MEMtested this for hours and came up with no errors. Should I lower it to 3733Mhz?
> 
> View attachment 173491


No, just ignore them. It's all because of an old AMD slide where they said it was the performance sweet spot, i.e. they expected all their CPUs to reach 3733MHz on the IF at that point in time. Now some people are even hitting 3866MHz on the IF, which means they can run their RAM 1:1 at that speed. Also as you can see per the old slide, 67ns is a pretty normal memory latency these days, with better memory being at least a couple of ns faster.
As per a leaked slide for the Ryzen 5000 series, AMD states "DDR4-4000 is to Ryzen 5000 series as DDR4-3800 was to AMD Ryzen 3000 series" which should tell you something.








						AMD Ryzen 5000 Series Features Three Synchronized Memory Clock Domains
					

A leaked presentation slide by AMD for its Ryzen 5000 series "Zen 3" processors reveals details of the processor's memory interface. Much like the Ryzen 3000 series "Matisse," the Ryzen 5000 series "Vermeer" is a multi-chip module of up to 16 CPU cores spread across two 8-core CPU dies, and a...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## droopyRO (Oct 28, 2020)

After i updated the bios to the latest F31b. I started to have this problem. Black screen while i play games, the GPU fans rev up to 100% but the game is running in the background.
I updated the BIOS again to F31d, same problem. I have no overclock on either the GPU, CPU or RAM. The system is the one in my profile.
I will investigate further but i don't know what to make of it, the GPU, CPU, mobo, RAM ? have you encountered something like this ? Thanks.


----------



## biffzinker (Oct 28, 2020)

droopyRO said:


> I updated the BIOS again to F31d, same problem. I have no overclock on either the GPU, CPU or RAM. The system is the one in my profile.
> I will investigate further but i don't know what to make of it, the GPU, CPU, mobo, RAM ? have you encountered something like this ? Thanks.


Have you tried rolling back to the last BIOS version that wasn't bugged (no black screen?) Any chance in pinning it to a hardware component (RAM as an example) causing trouble?


----------



## droopyRO (Oct 28, 2020)

I don't know if it is the BIOS and i will get a 5600X that is why i updated. I will rollback, but it is strange since the games run but there is no video output and the GPU fans rev up to max.


----------



## Calmmo (Oct 29, 2020)

Id say go back to the last non beta bios and wait for F31 (no letters) final.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Oct 29, 2020)

droopyRO said:


> After i updated the bios to the latest F31b. I started to have this problem. Black screen while i play games, the GPU fans rev up to 100% but the game is running in the background.
> I updated the BIOS again to F31d, same problem. I have no overclock on either the GPU, CPU or RAM. The system is the one in my profile.
> I will investigate further but i don't know what to make of it, the GPU, CPU, mobo, RAM ? have you encountered something like this ? Thanks.


I'm not seeing any of those things. F31d is out now, so maybe try that. Also do a manual clear CMOS, as on the rare occasion, some settings are being retained even though you installed a new UEFI image, which can cause problems.


----------



## ne6togadno (Oct 29, 2020)

i just noticed i've missed agesa 1.0.0.6 bios for my MB.
i'll have some things to fiddle with for the weekend


----------



## mstenholm (Oct 29, 2020)

ne6togadno said:


> i just noticed i've missed agesa 1.0.0.6 bios for my MB.
> i'll have some things to fiddle with for the weekend


And you pulled the H-card. Idiot, twice.


----------



## droopyRO (Oct 30, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> I'm not seeing any of those things. F31d is out now, so maybe try that. Also do a manual clear CMOS, as on the rare occasion, some settings are being retained even though you installed a new UEFI image, which can cause problems.


I did reset the BIOS, wiped the drivers with DDU from safe mode, uninstalled/reinstalled MSI Afterburner and installed the Nvidia drivers that came out yesterday. The problem seems to have went away for now, weird one though.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Oct 30, 2020)

droopyRO said:


> I did reset the BIOS, wiped the drivers with DDU from safe mode, uninstalled/reinstalled MSI Afterburner and installed the Nvidia drivers that came out yesterday. The problem seems to have went away for now, weird one though.


Ghost in the machine. It happens sometimes, can't explain it either.


----------



## Xzibit (Nov 3, 2020)

Anyone know any info on the AGESA v1.1.0.0 patches ?


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 4, 2020)

I've been thinking about selling my 3700X afterwards once I get a Vermeer, and trawling online for a 4650G. Anyone have any personal experience with this six-core Renoir middle child? Reputable sellers be selling tray Renoirs on eBay for about $350CAD right now, which is surprisingly okay considering a new 3600 is $275 (which does not pique my specific interest).

Can't be overclocking much with the 32GB CJR kit as it's kind of met its wall at 3800 but the old 16GB 4Gb E-die kit is itching for 1.5V. Renoir seems like it'll let me kill two birds with one stone - 1) enable to me to eliminate the 1070 (which in itself eliminates the biggest source of heat to the DIMMs) from my NCASE so I can also run a second C14S for better CPU and RAM cooling (which in turn improves memory overclocking); 2) overclock the snot out of IF and E-die 

So if anyone here can attest to the 4650G's abilities, I'll be dead set on getting one



Xzibit said:


> Anyone know any info on the AGESA v1.1.0.0 patches ?



As in details? Or availability? 1.1.0.0B and C BIOSes seem to be rolling out full force across Asus and GB. Both my B550s took a couple of days after the flagships got theirs, but it's been about two days and they haven't been pulled, so I assume it's the one.


----------



## Hachi_Roku256563 (Nov 4, 2020)

Do i count if i own a trusty fx laptop
as well as a 3200g


----------



## Mussels (Nov 4, 2020)

Isaac` said:


> Do i count if i own a trusty fx laptop
> as well as a 3200g



3200G is baby ryzen, but its still ryzen


----------



## Xzibit (Nov 4, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> As in details? Or availability? 1.1.0.0B and C BIOSes seem to be rolling out full force across Asus and GB. Both my B550s took a couple of days after the flagships got theirs, but it's been about two days and they haven't been pulled, so I assume it's the one.



Yes, was wondering about changes. Installed C earlier just to check out.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 4, 2020)

anyone know of good mobos in B550/x570 that dont cost three kidneys, with 2/3 NVME slots that dont eat the GPU slot down to 8x?


----------



## thesmokingman (Nov 4, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Looks like I don't get to life-hack my way to 3733 by adding a little more VSoC, looks like the MTH guide was right, going past 1.10V does no favours for daily stability:
> 
> View attachment 172617
> 
> ...



If you are almost there and just can't get over that hump, dumping more soc voltage will only degrade the chip. There is no good reason to go past 1.1v on soc and more often it can run 1900 IF at less than 1.1v. For example my release week 3900x only needed 1.08v on soc for 1900mhz. My current 3900xt uses the same voltage on soc.

In my exp it could be your timings, something is just too far. On my b-dies at 3800mhz, dram calc calls for cas 15 all around but obviously you can't run cas 15 w/o disabled gear down and power down and my chip/board doesn't like running with gear down off. If set to cas 15, it will run cas 16, which it runs fine with the other timings at 15 and that takes 1.4v. However I could run it at cas 14 TCL, but that requires a lot more voltage around 1.5v.  And there are other subtimings that are finicky on my 4 sticks, like tras and trc. Dram calc says I should use tras 30 and trc 48, however that also requires more dram voltage for a reduction in latency that amounts to don't blink. Anyways the point is check your timings, something may be just a hair too far. And I'd add that 3800mhz usually requires around 1.4v so you have room to raise that voltage at least. Like you state your ram is stable at 1.38v but I beg to differ. You are suffering from dram/imc errors which means yo ram isn't stable.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 4, 2020)

Mussels said:


> anyone know of good mobos in B550/x570 that dont cost three kidneys, with 2/3 NVME slots that dont eat the GPU slot down to 8x?


Did you take a look here first?


			https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wmsTYK9Z3-jUX5LGRoFnsZYZiW1pfiDZnKCjaXyzd1o/


----------



## Chomiq (Nov 4, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> I've been thinking about selling my 3700X afterwards once I get a Vermeer, and trawling online for a 4650G. Anyone have any personal experience with this six-core Renoir middle child? Reputable sellers be selling tray Renoirs on eBay for about $350CAD right now, which is surprisingly okay considering a new 3600 is $275 (which does not pique my specific interest).
> 
> Can't be overclocking much with the 32GB CJR kit as it's kind of met its wall at 3800 but the old 16GB 4Gb E-die kit is itching for 1.5V. Renoir seems like it'll let me kill two birds with one stone - 1) enable to me to eliminate the 1070 (which in itself eliminates the biggest source of heat to the DIMMs) from my NCASE so I can also run a second C14S for better CPU and RAM cooling (which in turn improves memory overclocking); 2) overclock the snot out of IF and E-die
> 
> ...


I believe Wendell from level1techs recently did a video on 4750 or something


----------



## Mussels (Nov 4, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Did you take a look here first?
> 
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wmsTYK9Z3-jUX5LGRoFnsZYZiW1pfiDZnKCjaXyzd1o/



no, that looks like a total pain in the ass... search doesnt even work on it


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 4, 2020)

Mussels said:


> no, that looks like a total pain in the ass... search doesnt even work on it


It does, you just need to click on the link in the document. It's some Google limitation. Or you could download it...


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 4, 2020)

thesmokingman said:


> If you are almost there and just can't get over that hump, dumping more soc voltage will only degrade the chip. There is no good reason to go past 1.1v on soc and more often it can run 1900 IF at less than 1.1v. For example my release week 3900x only needed 1.08v on soc for 1900mhz. My current 3900xt uses the same voltage on soc.
> 
> In my exp it could be your timings, something is just too far. On my b-dies at 3800mhz, dram calc calls for cas 15 all around but obviously you can't run cas 15 w/o disabled gear down and power down and my chip/board doesn't like running with gear down off. If set to cas 15, it will run cas 16, which it runs fine with the other timings at 15 and that takes 1.4v. However I could run it at cas 14 TCL, but that requires a lot more voltage around 1.5v.  And there are other subtimings that are finicky on my 4 sticks, like tras and trc. Dram calc says I should use tras 30 and trc 48, however that also requires more dram voltage for a reduction in latency that amounts to don't blink. Anyways the point is check your timings, something may be just a hair too far. And I'd add that 3800mhz usually requires around 1.4v so you have room to raise that voltage at least. Like you state your ram is stable at 1.38v but I beg to differ. You are suffering from dram/imc errors which means yo ram isn't stable.



Good advice on the SOC. Ended up going back to 1.1V/1.087V and leaving VDDP and VDDG on auto. By conventional understandings it shouldn't make any sense, since now both VDDGs are usually higher than SOC in practice and SOC needs to be 0.04V greater at all times, but clearly conventional wisdom falls short after all. 

I appreciate the help but DRAM is DRAM, IMC is IMC and IF is IF. I'm not trying to run CL14 here, just 3733 16-19-19-37. 3800CL16 isn't DRAM stable, and the symptoms look very different and very obvious there. 

The RAM always passes entire days' worth of HCI and hours of TM5 anta777 custom, and the profiles hold up under GPU heat too. Hours on end of P95 large FFT to stress the UMC. No /sfc or chkdsk corruption. Which just leaves the IF, which every single WHEA error in the past 9 months point to as CPU Bus/Interconnect - it's the only one out of the three that does whatever it wants, is unpredictable and cant be conclusively tested. 

The new voltages haven't crashed since last week through all the provocations I've tried. We'll see.



Chomiq said:


> I believe Wendell from level1techs recently did a video on 4750 or something



Unfortunately reviews like this aren't really what I'm wanting to know, I'm not gaming on it. I need to know if the 4650G is as good a memory overclocker as the 4750G. Hence why I was curious if anyone has this chip and has done some testing.

In the meantime I put in one of my low profile GT610s in place of my 1070 in my NCASE, so the 3700X works for the time being.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 4, 2020)

It seems most Renoir APUs can do 2100 IF without issues, a few can do more, think I read about someone who got 2300 IF stable if I remember correctly. The lower L3 cache really reduces perf a lot vs Xen 2 in both apps and games, even though really fast ram somewhat compensates.


----------



## stinger608 (Nov 4, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> I've been thinking about selling my 3700X



Well, if you do decide to sell it bro, let me know. I'd be interested in it.


----------



## thesmokingman (Nov 4, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Good advice on the SOC. Ended up going back to 1.1V/1.087V and leaving VDDP and VDDG on auto. By conventional understandings it shouldn't make any sense, since now both VDDGs are usually higher than SOC in practice and SOC needs to be 0.04V greater at all times, but clearly conventional wisdom falls short after all.
> 
> I appreciate the help but DRAM is DRAM, IMC is IMC and IF is IF. I'm not trying to run CL14 here, just 3733 16-19-19-37. 3800CL16 isn't DRAM stable, and the symptoms look very different and very obvious there.
> 
> ...



Are you on an Asus ROG board? If so try disabling the memory latency enhancement. It works for me.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 4, 2020)

thesmokingman said:


> Are you on an Asus ROG board? If so try disabling the memory latency enhancement. It works for me.



Memory latency enhancement? I'm not familiar with that feature and I'm not on a ROG board. Tried looking up that feature and couldn't find any reference to it anywhere. Are you referring to APE, Asus' MCE equivalent?




I thought most Asus BIOSes were more or less functionally identical regardless of branding?

@thesmokingman yeah it's not in 0805 or the latest 1202 BIOS. I guess they removed it somewhere along the line, or it's ROG-only.


----------



## thesmokingman (Nov 4, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Memory latency enhancement? I'm not familiar with that feature and I'm not on a ROG board. Tried looking up that feature and couldn't find any reference to it anywhere. Are you referring to APE, Asus' MCE equivalent?
> 
> View attachment 174386
> 
> I thought most Asus BIOSes were more or less functionally identical regardless of branding?



It's something they added in the newer bios' but it causes IF clocking issues cuz it's tweaking the memory. You can find it under memory timings if your board has it.


----------



## Xzibit (Nov 4, 2020)

Yesterday they posted the v2 1.1.0.0 C beta for my board. Today they posted v2 1.1.0.0 C final.

Flashy flash flash


----------



## Calmmo (Nov 5, 2020)

Someone shared this on my discord (they're not his scores either)











						I scored 42 457 in Fire Strike
					

AMD Ryzen 9 5950X, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 16384 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




					www.3dmark.com


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 5, 2020)

Put down a B&H preorder, as they have a pretty comprehensive ship-to-Canada process that takes care of customs and free reasonably quick shipping.

Ironic that even with Paypal's less-than-generous conversion rate and included customs and duties (~$65USD), it *still *works out to $2 cheaper than if I could get a 5900X from Memory Express after their markup and sales tax here. And it goes without saying that I can't, ME has no stock, it's in-store only, and I don't have my car this week.

....and Newegg US is sold out of the 5900X and 5950X within 60 seconds of getting the email. Nice. 

"Won't be a repeat of Ampere, don't worry"


That being said, the optimization of the N7FF process is insane. Easy 4.4-4.5GHz all-core on the 5900/5950X, while all-core OCing to the same speeds at less than 1.3V on some samples  *and *all at iso-power if not slightly less power than before, *and* with some insanely good thermals for the 5900X


----------



## Durvelle27 (Nov 5, 2020)

Picked myself up a Ryzen 5 5600X. Decent upgrade over the Ryzen 5 3600 Non-X I had


----------



## Mussels (Nov 6, 2020)

anyone tested what happens if you run a zen 3 on an older agesa yet?

I'm stuck on Combo PI V1 1.0.0.6 for now, but CBA choosing a new mobo as well as a CPU


----------



## ne6togadno (Nov 6, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> with Paypal's less-than-generous conversion rate


try this




should give you the option to use card issuer rates (aka bank that issued your card)


----------



## Xzibit (Nov 8, 2020)

Out of curiosity I was wondering if the AGESA v2 1.1.0.0 C BIOS would allow me to get higher than 1900 IF on my 3700X and no go  back to 1900 IF it is.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 9, 2020)

Not sure if this is the typical garbo US-Canada logistics, or availability for high core count SKUs is just this poor in general.

Thank god for B&H preorders and ME not requiring you to pay in advance for in-store pickup, so I can just go with whichever one comes sooner. Guess I'll play with Renoir in the meantime because the 4650G is for sure arriving long before this 5900X.


----------



## droopyRO (Nov 10, 2020)

Top is 5600X, middle is 2700X, bottom a 8600K@5.1Ghz. 720p Ultra details. 
Didn't have time to properly edit the video or play around with the 5600X before i had to leave for work.
PS: the audio popping is from Shadowplay, can't get rid of it.


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 10, 2020)

droopyRO said:


> Top is 5600X, middle is 2700X, bottom a 8600K@5.1Ghz.


What's with the dramatically different RAM use in these 'similar' tests?


----------



## droopyRO (Nov 10, 2020)

Different stuff opened in the background. The main idea is that a brand new stock AMD is equal or above an overclocked Intel CPU from 3 years ago. Don't know if that is a good or bad thing


----------



## droopyRO (Nov 11, 2020)

Another hastily put together clip from DIrt Rally benchmark, 1280x720, ultra preset. The gains are huge from a 2700X to a 5600X in gaming. I wonder how it performs with a powerfull card like a RX 6800 or RTX 3080 in 1440p.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Nov 12, 2020)

It finally arrived


----------



## droopyRO (Nov 12, 2020)

I upgraded my SSD too with an 5600X and after a fresh install of Windows i can not get the Ryzen Power Plan to show up. The Drivers install but there is no AMD power plan to choose from, do you have this issue ? Win 10x64 2H. Thanks.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 12, 2020)

droopyRO said:


> I upgraded my SSD too with an 5600X and after a fresh install of Windows i can not get the Ryzen Power Plan to show up. The Drivers install but there is no AMD power plan to choose from, do you have this issue ? Win 10x64 2H. Thanks.





@Mussels Crucial is the only way to go for 2x32GB, no contest:









						Crucial Ballistix RGB 64GB Kit (2 x 32GB) DDR4-3600 Desktop Gaming Memory (Black) | BL2K32G36C16U4BL | Crucial.com
					

Buy Crucial Ballistix RGB 64GB Kit (2 x 32GB) DDR4-3600 Desktop Gaming Memory (Black) BL2K32G36C16U4BL. FREE US Delivery, guaranteed 100% compatibility when ordering using our online tools.




					www.crucial.com
				











						Crucial Ballistix  64GB Kit (2 x 32GB) DDR4-3600 Desktop Gaming Memory(Black) | BL2K32G36C16U4B | Crucial.com
					

Buy Crucial Ballistix  64GB Kit (2 x 32GB) DDR4-3600 Desktop Gaming Memory(Black) BL2K32G36C16U4B. FREE US Delivery, guaranteed 100% compatibility when ordering using our online tools.




					www.crucial.com


----------



## Mussels (Nov 12, 2020)

i'm having bad thoughts about spending my savings, lads
=


----------



## biffzinker (Nov 12, 2020)

Mussels said:


> i'm having bad thoughts about spending my savings, lads
> =View attachment 175385


What about the 3700X? Where will that go? I'm happy with my 3800X so I would rather skip, and wait for the new socket with DDR5.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 12, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> What about the 3700X? Where will that go? I'm happy with my 3800X so I would rather skip, and wait for the new socket with DDR5.



3700x becomes the new VR rig
2700x becomes a sale system with the 1070ti, after i get my new GPU (whatever it ends up being)

If the VR rig becomes an ITX 3700 + watercooled 1080, it can easily be moved between secondary PC/VR system on a whim (i'm tempted to set up a desk in the lounge anyway... 2nd system may live out there in summer for the AC)


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 13, 2020)

Some baseline numbers for the 4650G before B-die shows up. Renoir has a good 0.3-0.8ns less latency than Matisse in AIDA with full write bandwidth. However, the membench results are ever so slightly slower (about a second, 118s vs 117s), and copy performance is usually a gig or two lower than Matisse, which probably accounts for the lower actual performance.

Kinda strange that the 4650G is supposed to be an "up to 4.2GHz" part, yet my 4650G seems to have forgotten about that. All cores boost up to 4.3GHz precisely, all the time, even in effective clock. As a result, ST bench in CPU-Z consistently beats my 3700X; 4650G's Core 0 is its second best while 3700X's Core 0 is DFL.

Runs cool and quiet, as expected of a monolithic 6-core.




--------------

Absolutely ancient not-Bdie from like 2015 proving that it can do 3933 1:1, 16-17-17-36-56-325 with the usual secondaries at just 1.45V and auto SOC, somehow:



B-die tRFC, crappy B-die tRCD and tRP, and B-die voltage. Color me impressed

Both Renoir and 4Gb E-die doing some absolutely crazy shit trying their damndest to persuade me to cancel that B-die order. Gotta say, they're doing a good job so far. Couldn't do 4000 on auto VSOC however, bootlooped a couple times then defaulted to booting 4000 at 1:2 IF.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 15, 2020)

For once in my life, reading Tomshardware resulted in something useful because disabling TSME is essential for benchmarking. No actual difference in membench results, but hey, free latency reduction is free latency reduction.





So if you have a PRO CPU, remember to get rid of that pesky feature in the BIOS.

@biffzinker it's AMD's response to rambleed, only available on its pro series and enterprise SKUs. I can see why some corporate Ryzen PRO mobile users would want that extra security, but imo overhyped like every other vulnerability that requires existing access to a machine.


----------



## Xzibit (Nov 17, 2020)

Interesting. New BIOS for my board
- Support AMD SAM(SMART ACCESS MEMORY) function


----------



## Mussels (Nov 17, 2020)

Xzibit said:


> Interesting. New BIOS for my board
> - Support AMD SAM(SMART ACCESS MEMORY) function



Ooooh, SAM requires a BIOS update? that'll help narrow down what platforms it works on pretty fast


----------



## Xzibit (Nov 17, 2020)

Its X570 and B550 that look to have the new bioses. The others chipsets havent been updated in awhile


----------



## Mussels (Nov 17, 2020)

Xzibit said:


> Its X570 and B550 that look to have the new bioses. The others chipsets havent been updated in awhile



B450 and X470 are getting 5000 series support in jan, *if* they get SAM, it'll be then


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 17, 2020)

I got the F60C bios for my Gigabyte B450 which is suppised to support 5000-series a few days ago


----------



## Mussels (Nov 17, 2020)

i found a random BETA BIOS for my mobo and 5000 series as well, huh didn't expect that

this is a german forum with an amazing collection of beta BIOS for all ryzen boards









						[Übersicht] - Ultimative AM4 UEFI/BIOS/AGESA Übersicht
					

Inhaltsverzeichnis: UEFI Collection | Hersteller Support Links | UEFI Mods | Weiterführende Links     Keine weiteren Updates mehr geplant! AM5 UEFI/BIOS/AGESA Übersicht    	ASRock 	ASUS 	Biostar 	Gigabyte 	MSI 	EVGA 	NZXT   	B350 B450 B550 X370 X470 X570 	B350 B450 B550 X370 X470 X570 	B350 B450...




					www.hardwareluxx.de


----------



## biffzinker (Nov 17, 2020)

I just submitted a RMA request with AMD for the Ryzen 5 3600 that stopped initializing on POST from a while back when I left some replies in this thread.


----------



## djisas (Nov 17, 2020)

Updated my X570 Taichi to Bios 3.61, then proceeded to optimize my ram to 3600 CL16, run cinebench 23, played some borderlands, things are smooth...
Looking to get a 5600X or 5700 next year...


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 17, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> I just submitted a RMA request with AMD for the Ryzen 5 3600 that stopped initializing on POST from a while back when I left some replies in this thread.



And I might have to RMA my ITX board. All Bluetooth functions from the AX200 straight up disappeared in hardware and software. Wifi 6 works fine so I suspect some part of the BIOS gave up the ghost.

I guess it's reassuring to see that good ol Gigabyte hasn't changed, that they still can't make functional BIOSes worth a damn. Not doing a lot other than some mundane memory testing these past few days, and every day is a new delightful surprise.

Old BIOS settings sticking and unchangeable despite Windows clearly showing reset to default settings, BIOS refusing to reboot into anything other than BIOS, entire menus disappearing from the BIOS (at one point I lost both Smart Fan and AMD Overclocking), corrupted BIOSes that not even Q-Flash can solve, and now the Bluetooth disappearing act. 

Kinda glad I left the Gigabyte board for my tinkering rig and not my main computer. Great board, terrible firmware.


----------



## Xzibit (Nov 17, 2020)

Doesn't look like there is anything new or needed to activate (SAM) in the BIOS. At least its not showing up for me with a 3700X & X570

Did notice changing LLC settings from AUTO I started to get WHEA Errors.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 18, 2020)

So as of today i have a few ryzens

5800x + 64GB 3600
3700x + 32GB 3200
2700x + 16GB 3200
1400 + 4GB 2400 (mmmm baby, the sheer fucking HORSEPOWER)


I get the feeling SAM will be a modern AGESA that the AMD driver detects, and thats all it takes - with an on/off toggle in case of incompatibilities.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 18, 2020)

Note to self, don't ever use Gigabyte beta BIOSes. Rolling back to F10 (twice) and clearing CMOS fixed my Bluetooth. 

Testing these cheap Viper Steels. Couldn't do 3800 14-14-14. But could do 4000 16-16-16 and 4133 16-16-16. SOC needed a bump to 1.15V to stop randomly rebooting past 4000 threshold. But for some reason actual performance hits a wall past 4000 despite being stable nets only like 0.2ns over 4000. Huh. Still not sure if I really want to keep these. 

First time over 60GB/s, below 55ns and a 108s membench.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 18, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> It finally arrived
> 
> View attachment 175353


You going to gut it and build a mini-ITX system inside it?


----------



## Durvelle27 (Nov 18, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> You going to gut it and build a mini-ITX system inside it?


I would never


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 18, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> I would never


So what's the CPU for? Did Microsoft put some hidden socket in there for some extra performance upgrade options?


----------



## Durvelle27 (Nov 18, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> So what's the CPU for? Did Microsoft put some hidden socket in there for some extra performance upgrade options?


 To upgrade my PC


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 18, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> To upgrade my PC


So the CPU was what you just got, not the console?


----------



## Durvelle27 (Nov 18, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> So the CPU was what you just got, not the console?


i got both


----------



## RainingTacco (Nov 18, 2020)

Does series 5000 also have this horrible idle temps and temperature jumps? Just asking becasue that's a thing i dont like in my zen 2.


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 18, 2020)

RainingTacco said:


> Does series 5000 also have this horrible idle temps and temperature jumps? Just asking becasue that's a thing i dont like in my zen 2.


Idle temps unless they are way out of whack mean nothing to load temps. Temp spikes are normal in all PCs.


----------



## RainingTacco (Nov 18, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Idle temps unless they are way out of whack mean nothing to load temps. Temp spikes are normal in all PCs.



That's not my question. So anyone can confirm that idle spikes are still present in zen 3?


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 18, 2020)

RainingTacco said:


> That's not my question. So anyone can confirm that idle spikes are still present in zen 3?



It's the same behaviour in every chip on Zen 2 and 3 architecture. Get a big cooler and set a flat fan curve and hysteresis if you're bothered by the noise, or run a low voltage all-core OC if your fan control lacks features and granularity.


----------



## RainingTacco (Nov 18, 2020)

Thanks for the actual answer.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 19, 2020)

5800x on stock with beta BIOS
ROG STRIX X570-F GAMING BIOS 2812 AGESA V2 PI 1.1.0.0 Patch C

Stock, 240mm AIO
~45C idle with chrome open
85-90C load... this sucker just turbos balls to the effing wall, performance is insane tho. 32% faster single threaded than my 3700X @ 4.3GHz, the only limit to MT and temps is what i set the power target to... 65W eco mode has dropped the MT temps by about 10-15C while leaving ST alone


Edit: games that were CPU limited are laughably fast now. flatlining 144FPS in SC2 and grim dawn... its like the change from 60 to 144hz all over again.


----------



## Flyordie (Nov 19, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> And I might have to RMA my ITX board. All Bluetooth functions from the AX200 straight up disappeared in hardware and software. Wifi 6 works fine so I suspect some part of the BIOS gave up the ghost.
> 
> *I guess it's reassuring to see that good ol Gigabyte hasn't changed, that they still can't make functional BIOSes worth a damn.* Not doing a lot other than some mundane memory testing these past few days, and every day is a new delightful surprise.
> 
> ...



I am in 100% agreement with the bolded statement... They STILL haven't fixed the X399 Gaming 7 CPU voltage bug. Pisses me off that I can't change my voltage without it ignoring what I set. The only way the bug goes away is if I downgrade to F3J. After that, any voltage I set.. hits the CPU with 1.6V. Not joking. 1.6V. I've let them know about it, how to replicate it and its still there. 

I'd much rather see the damn RGB BS removed from the BIOS. That shit can be control in the OS. -_-


----------



## thesmokingman (Nov 19, 2020)

Flyordie said:


> I am in 100% agreement with the bolded statement... They STILL haven't fixed the X399 Gaming 7 CPU voltage bug. Pisses me off that I can't change my voltage without it ignoring what I set. The only way the bug goes away is if I downgrade to F3J. After that, any voltage I set.. hits the CPU with 1.6V. Not joking. 1.6V. I've let them know about it, how to replicate it and its still there.
> 
> I'd much rather see the damn RGB BS removed from the BIOS. That shit can be control in the OS. -_-



Yeap. I was stupefied when I realized that the bios on the TRX40 Xtreme does not save fan setting in the profiles like every other brand does. Seriously, its an 850 board and they cannot manage that. Imagine during the process or setting up a rig or worse overclocking and every time you reset, load your saved profile but wait you have to go thru and manually input the fan profiles. Each and every damn time... its seriously brain damaged whomever was in charge of that board.


----------



## Flyordie (Nov 19, 2020)

thesmokingman said:


> Yeap. I was stupefied when I realized that the bios on the TRX40 Xtreme does not save fan setting in the profiles like every other brand does. Seriously, its an 850 board and they cannot manage that. Imagine during the process or setting up a rig or worse overclocking and every time you reset, load your saved profile but wait you have to go thru and manually input the fan profiles. Each and every damn time... its seriously brain damaged whomever was in charge of that board.



Strangely enough, fan profiles on my board work great in the BIOS. lol.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 19, 2020)

system upgrades aren't real until they're in your TPU specs


----------



## Chomiq (Nov 19, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> It's the same behaviour in every chip on Zen 2 and 3 architecture. Get a big cooler and set a flat fan curve and hysteresis if you're bothered by the noise, or run a low voltage all-core OC if your fan control lacks features and granularity.


Aren't those spikes really caused by wrong temperature sensors being read by mobo? That's why there's always temperature variance between RM readout and other software.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 19, 2020)

Chomiq said:


> Aren't those spikes really caused by wrong temperature sensors being read by mobo? That's why there's always temperature variance between RM readout and other software.



No, the different temp readings are just different methods of representing the data from the same array of sensors. It's kinda like recent RDNA GPUs, Tctl/Tdie is more of a dynamic hotspot reading that selects data from the hottest sensor, but unfortunately it's still the only reading that can be tied to fan control. Once you load up something all core like Prime95, Tctl, Tdie average and RM all report the same unchanging temperature because the entire silicon is about the same temp


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Nov 19, 2020)

RainingTacco said:


> That's not my question. So anyone can confirm that idle spikes are still present in zen 3?



If you're talking about the saw-tooth temperature spikes at idle that made the fan ramp up and down, I can safely say that it's been fixed with Ryzen 5000. At least with mine.

When I had my Ryzen 3100 installed I had horrible saw-tooth temps where it spiked up by 10C every few seconds. Now with my 5600X the temperatures are constant at idle, and the fluctuations you see on these graphs here are less than one degree for the most part.


----------



## RainingTacco (Nov 19, 2020)

By spike i mean a cpu going from 45 to 60 just because you opened chrome.


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 19, 2020)

RainingTacco said:


> By spike i mean a cpu going from 45 to 60 just because you opened chrome.


As I said (and was an actual answer) this is pretty normal. Intel does it. Ryzen 2000/3000 series... they all do it. I've got a 10980XE here a 10900K a 3900X and 5950X...they all do that.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 19, 2020)

RainingTacco said:


> By spike i mean a cpu going from 45 to 60 just because you opened chrome.



That's par for the course and will continue to be so going forward. That's the exact kind of behaviour you'd expect day and night from an AMD or Intel ultrabook, and since 2019 AMD's goal has been to bring that milliseconds-latency laptop hardware responsiveness to the desktop, for a better user experience. Intel has been doing the same since Kaby Lake, though usually with slightly less precision than AMD on desktop.

It's not 2012 anymore; gotta stop thinking about CPU usage as simple divide between IDLE and LOAD. Modern CPUs respond to activity by reaching full frequency after just 2-30ms. Freq, volts and temps all lie on a constantly sliding scale now and depend on a variety of factors. Cores come out of idle at a split second's notice, then go right back into a deep idle state once the work's done.

Besides, with any respectable air cooler and well-configured fan control, you'd never notice unless you spend all day staring at the HWInfo screen for some reason.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Nov 19, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> As I said (and was an actual answer) this is pretty normal. Intel does it. Ryzen 2000/3000 series... they all do it. I've got a 10980XE here a 10900K a 3900X and 5950X...they all do that.



All CPUs kick up the temperatures instantly when you open a new program etc. True. But speaking from my own experience going from the 4670K to Ryzen 3100, there was a very real idle temperature quirk with Ryzen 3000. I had to set a long fan response delay to stop the constant CPU fan ramping at idle when it spiked every few seconds on the 3100. The problem was still obvious after upgrading from the Wraith Stealth to Noctua cooler, the main difference being the fan was inherently quieter.

Now on Ryzen 5000 that quirk is gone and temperature graphs are flat at idle. The fan delay reset itself after upgrading but I haven't needed to change it anyway. No more fan ramping. There was a real issue with Ryzen 3000 and I know because I spent so much time adjusting fan curves. The 5600X has higher temperatures overall but it is far better behaved at idle, so it has been a much nicer CPU to use for office work. That's been my own experiences to date.


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 19, 2020)

Odd... mine was 'flat' at idle (3900x) that I recall. Interesting. 

But yeah, regardless of CPU, opening up a program like dude asks, there is always a blip. It's been that way for generations. 

Idle temps don't really matter (outside of if they are out of whack warm, you're going to run hot on load, generally)... and blips are normal.


----------



## RainingTacco (Nov 19, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> As I said (and was an actual answer) this is pretty normal. Intel does it. Ryzen 2000/3000 series... they all do it. I've got a 10980XE here a 10900K a 3900X and 5950X...they all do that.



Not only my old intel ran cooler it didn't have such spikes. I went straight from haswell into ryzen 3600 and was negatively surprised by the inferior operation when it comes to self regulation, loudness, sensor reading. Ryzen CPUs have really high heat density, therefore their cooling is very poor compared to intel[at least older intels dont know how 9000/10000 fare]

Thanks poopipeboy, your experience was like mine. Ryzen was dogshit after going from intel platform. It's good to hear they improved the cpu/temperature behaviour, maybe my next CPU won't be an intel after all if ryzen run its course? I will still probably return to intel because i feel like its better, like its a proper CPU company with their own fabs, manufacturing, more experience. If something is wrong i won't doubt manufacturer but myself  then 



EarthDog said:


> But yeah, regardless of CPU, opening up a program like dude asks, there is always a blip. It's been that way for generations.



Blip yes, but not a 25*C increase in some cases. Going from 37 to 62 is just insane behaviour and should never be tolerated by anyone who has at least some self respect to what he/she buy. It's very hard to plot any relevant and suitable fan curve with this bullshit behaviour. I don't have problem with milisecond reaction, improving latency and making cpus more energy efficient by dropping clocks aggressively, what i have problem with is the sudden temperature change whether its because of sensor, or actual heating. If the temperature change was more gradual[meaning cpu ihs was designed to remove that sudden heat] there would be no problem.But AMD cpus werent designed for that apparently, because there's high heat density, there's less heat inertia, and heat accumulate much quicker, given same/constant heat removal by cooler. Improving thermal mass means absolutely nothing -same behaviour is observed on crappy wraith and scythe mugen 5 which is two times heavier. AMD just fugged with their chiplet design[?] and transistor density[?] without proper ihs, bigger thermal mass[copper plating] inside? Idk  but looks like it.


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 19, 2020)

RainingTacco said:


> Going from 37 to 62 is just insane behaviour and should never be tolerated by anyone who has at least some self respect to what he/she buy.


Thats a bit drastic.. wow. The rest of that passage...more or less known. But nobody screwed the pooch. 

FTR, I have zero problems setting a fan curve in any of these machines. Low. They dont budge. The difference in temps, a few C, doesn't allow better overclocking or maybe 100 mhz. So MEH. Quite simply, if I'm benchmarking, ill crank the fans. If not, they stay in silent/low. No reindeer games to worry about these common spikes. Ive got better things to do... like game and not worry.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Nov 20, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Odd... mine was 'flat' at idle (3900x) that I recall. Interesting.
> 
> But yeah, regardless of CPU, opening up a program like dude asks, there is always a blip. It's been that way for generations.
> 
> Idle temps don't really matter (outside of if they are out of whack warm, you're going to run hot on load, generally)... and blips are normal.



Now that's weird. I don't know if it's less pronounced on other SKUs or if it's a power plan thing, but for the life of me I couldn't stop it from ramping. My suspicion is that it was the continual hand-off between CPU cores over the infinity fabric that was creating activity every few seconds at idle. But if so, it would've been inherent to the Ryzen 3000 architecture and there's not much that can be done about it. Very annoying behavior for a silent PC build. But once you loaded it up with a game it performed great and ran at a constant temperature.



RainingTacco said:


> Thanks poopipeboy, your experience was like mine. Ryzen was dogshit after going from intel platform. It's good to hear they improved the cpu/temperature behaviour, maybe my next CPU won't be an intel after all if ryzen run its course? I will still probably return to intel because i feel like its better, like its a proper CPU company with their own fabs, manufacturing, more experience. If something is wrong i won't doubt manufacturer but myself  then



YW, I reckon it's safe to say that Ryzen can compete with Intel on quality at this point. I expected with upgrading to Ryzen 3000 that the differences between Intel vs AMD would be imperceptible, but in reality there was some noticeable differences in the sensor behavior. The cores would constantly alternate in usage, that kind of stuff. Now with Ryzen 5000 I'd struggle to tell for certain if I were on Intel or AMD without looking at the processor specs, and that says a lot about how refined Ryzen is now. The improvements in architecture and unified cache have had a bigger effect on refinement than most reviewers were letting on.


----------



## biffzinker (Nov 20, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> The cores would constantly alternate in usage, that kind of stuff.


Some of that is Windows doing stuff in background causing activity on the cores, and the scheduler shuffling threads around the cores. Just because you did a boot up/reboot, and it’s sitting at the desktop idle doesn’t mean you can consider it B genuinely idle. Plus programs added to startup sitting in the system tray possibly causing activity.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 20, 2020)

I really don't understand all these people with 5600x hitting 4.7 and 4.8 all core at like 1.3 volts... read it in multiple places too... mine can't do it anyway. I can do 4.6 all core at 1.35 volts, and a medium LLC.   temps are good and its stable, but I can't get 4.7 for the life of me.  will just leave it at 4.6 all core and be happy lol


----------



## Mussels (Nov 20, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> I really don't understand all these people with 5600x hitting 4.7 and 4.8 all core at like 1.3 volts... read it in multiple places too... mine can't do it anyway. I can do 4.6 all core at 1.35 volts, and a medium LLC.   temps are good and its stable, but I can't get 4.7 for the life of me.  will just leave it at 4.6 all core and be happy lol



if you're gaming, let it boost [/elsa voice]

i'm seeing all my cores except one hit 5050, no way would i drop to 4.6 all core and suffer the gaming loss


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 20, 2020)

Mussels said:


> if you're gaming, let it boost [/elsa voice]
> 
> i'm seeing all my cores except one hit 5050, no way would i drop to 4.6 all core and suffer the gaming loss



Yeah, I ended up resetting BIOS, doing my ram again and nothing else. Then I downloaded Ryzen Master, clicked Auto OC and rebooted, I am getting better scores and temps now than I did even with all core 4.6


So your saying, disable Auto OC and uninstall Ryzen master and just let it do its thing and I might even get higher scores? no BIOS changes needed?

edit:  fyi is that a Frozen reference? lol  if so well done good sir well done... lol


----------



## Mussels (Nov 20, 2020)

do you want to build a.... fuck nothing techy rhymes with snowman

I turned on eco mode, changed that boost setting to +200Mhz (not that you get all 200) and undervolted -.05v
shits faaaaaast

i mean i'm still on a 'mere' 1080 and suddenly i'm maxing out games at ultra settings sitting at 1440p when i had no chance of this on the 3700x, its fucking weird how much of an FPS improvement i've had with the CPU and RAM upgrade.


----------



## RainingTacco (Nov 20, 2020)

lynx29 have you tried ryzen tuner and check what bin you'v got? I wouldn't bother with OC on these ryzens, unless you can get at least -200mhz all core speed than what boost have[so 4,8ghz, anything lower is bad]
Mussels i find it hard to believe that you would get fps improvement with new CPU. My 3600 see 20-60% usage in games, in heaviest one i see 60% usage while my 5700 xt is maxed out. So there's still some cpu power unused. And im playing at 1080p which should excarberate the issue more than 1440p. I think it's your new ram[?] and maybe the latency decrease between CCX make for a smoother frametimes? idk really, maybe its just placebo.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 20, 2020)

RainingTacco said:


> lynx29 have you tried ryzen tuner and check what bin you'v got? I wouldn't bother with OC on these ryzens, unless you can get at least -200mhz all core speed than what boost have[so 4,8ghz, anything lower is bad]
> Mussels i find it hard to believe that you would get fps improvement with new CPU. My 3600 see 20-60% usage in games, in heaviest one i see 60% usage while my 5700 xt is maxed out. So there's still some cpu power unused. And im playing at 1080p which should excarberate the issue more than 1440p. I think it's your new ram[?] and maybe the latency decrease between CCX make for a smoother frametimes? idk really, maybe its just placebo.




im waiting on a zen 3 update before i use ryzen tuner.


----------



## biffzinker (Nov 20, 2020)

RMA request with AMD was approved all that's left is packaging it, and sending it too Miami Florida. AMD of course wants to do a visual inspection before sending out a replacement. CPU has been hanging out in the plastic clam shell in the retail box.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 21, 2020)

Finally broke 108s, looks like tRFC all of a sudden decided to start mattering again, and a big difference at that.

Anybody able to run both 3800CL14 and 4000CL16 on Ryzen 5000 able to give me some membench results? I can't compare the two as there's something preventing me from doing 3800CL14 on my Viper Steel, not even 14-15-15 or 14-16-16.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 21, 2020)

So lads, looking into Dram calc and... my ram isn't supported?

I have Hynix MJR?





ram ran upto 3800 1:1 fine, but i got a few WHEA errors, so i wont bother with that until the new AGESA is out improving on the OCing


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 21, 2020)

Mussels said:


> So lads, looking into Dram calc and... my ram isn't supported?
> 
> I have Hynix MJR?
> 
> ...




i wouldn't bugger with hardcore ram OC until new BIOS come out, prob will be less than 2 months, AMD knows they need to make good on that promise of widespread 4000 1:1 possible.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 21, 2020)

if i can get 4000 1:1 on a chip that boosts over 5GHz, all the OCD's will be pleased


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 21, 2020)

Mussels said:


> if i can get 4000 1:1 on a chip that boosts over 5GHz, all the OCD's will be pleased




I looked in my MSI X570 Tomahawk BIOS, There are two sections for PBO, like 8 different modes I can pick from, Enhanced Mode 1-4... it is all very confusing, so I just decided to stick with 'Download Ryzen Master, don't touch mobo BIOS, check the Auto OC in ryzen master software, reboot... and done'.  I only boost to around 4750, but its usually on 2-4 cores at same time, and cinebench confirms with higher scores. Temps are great.

Would love to see if mine would boost to 5ghz, but there are literally like 30 settings to choose from under all the PBO stuff... this mobo went way to overkill with it and it's to complicated. If I could get Buildzoid (who also uses x570 Tomahawk to show me how)... then maybe I would.  Hopefully he will post a 5600x oc guide to his YT channel soon.

@Mussels what's your cinebench r20 single core score? mine is 611 with ryzen master auto OC, and 593 stock.


----------



## thesmokingman (Nov 21, 2020)

I just slapped in a 5800x in my strix-e. I got it booted at 4000mhz dram with some slow arse timings for a baseline. But get this, soc voltage is still on auto. I'm using g.skill 4000mhz c17 2x16gb kit. Now time to dial this in. Btw, it took my ole 3800mhz c16 settings w/o issue.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 21, 2020)

thesmokingman said:


> I just slapped in a 5800x in my strix-e. I got it booted at 4000mhz dram with some slow arse timings for a baseline. But get this, soc voltage is still on auto. I'm using g.skill 4000mhz c17 2x16gb kit. Now time to dial this in. Btw, it took my ole 3800mhz c16 settings w/o issue.



you 100% sure Infinity Fabric is set to 2000?  I have seen many 4000 kits that only register in BIOS at 1900 IF, even though the ram is at 4k.  

that is nice a kit btw if you really are running 1:1, what brand? care to link from newegg?

care to run AIDA64 latency memory test? I am curious what your ns is


----------



## thesmokingman (Nov 21, 2020)

Yea its running the right fclk, would be pointless to do so otherwise. I'm not ready to run aida yet, it'll be slow as heck with the current timings. I'm still dialing it in at this point learning this imc's characteristics. So far it boots on auto voltage or manual 1.1. Timings wise dram calc doesn't have anything for this speed so its a slow and painful process. I just set the primaries to 20 and auto'd the rest. Edit, did an aida run got 62.1ns at these slow timings lol.









						G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C17D-32GTZRB - Newegg.com
					

Buy G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C17D-32GTZRB with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 21, 2020)

thesmokingman said:


> Yea its running the right fclk, would be pointless to do so otherwise. I'm not ready to run aida yet, it'll be slow as heck with the current timings. I'm still dialing it in at this point learning this imc's characteristics. So far it boots on auto voltage or manual 1.1. Timings wise dram calc doesn't have anything for this speed so its a slow and painful process. I just set the primaries to 20 and auto'd the rest. Edit, did an aida run got 62.1ns at these slow timings lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice kit of B-die. Why not just run the XMP 17-18-18 1.4V? It won't change how your IF or IMC behave. If you let it Auto its way onto Geardown you'll be running 18-18-18, but that's still decent, all things considered.

Ryzen 3000/5000 UMC is still capable of well over 4000 on its own, the B-die is clearly on the higher end of B-die, and IF is honestly just a can-you-do-x-speed-or-not affair.

Relying on DRAM calc doesn't always work out very well on real performance at the higher end.


----------



## thesmokingman (Nov 21, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Nice kit of B-die. Why not just run the XMP 17-18-18 1.4V? It won't change how your IF or IMC behave. If you let it Auto its way onto Geardown you'll be running 18-18-18, but that's still decent, all things considered.
> 
> Ryzen 3000/5000 UMC is still capable of well over 4000 on its own, the B-die is clearly on the higher end of B-die, and IF is honestly just a can-you-do-x-speed-or-not affair.
> 
> Relying on DRAM calc doesn't always work out very well on real performance at the higher end.



What makes you think I didn't already try the xmp?? I'm not relying on dram calc, did you not read that? Dram calc doesn't even support speeds above 3866mhz.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Nov 21, 2020)

Mussels said:


> if i can get 4000 1:1 on a chip that boosts over 5GHz, all the OCD's will be pleased



Does it boost to 5GHz under a single-threaded load (R20 etc)?

I enabled +200MHz max frequency on PBO and I'm getting up to 4.8GHz in some cases with light loads, but under heavy single core load it will hit a max of 4.64GHz (which I believe is the rated max boost frequency anyway).


----------



## thesmokingman (Nov 21, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Does it boost to 5GHz under a single-threaded load (R20 etc)?
> 
> I enabled +200MHz max frequency on PBO and I'm getting up to 4.8GHz in some cases with light loads, but under heavy single core load it will hit a max of 4.64GHz (which I believe is the rated max boost frequency anyway).



Yoou have to raise the power limit on the cpu. W/o a higher ceiling PBO can't do much. With PBO switch it to advanced under the cpu advanced menu but not in the tweaker area, the cpu area. That's where the real control is under the AMD CBS/OVERCLOCKING area. You can either switch PBO to manual or any of the other modes. I use motherboard and raise the power limit in my strix-e's vrm tweaker section.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 21, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Does it boost to 5GHz under a single-threaded load (R20 etc)?
> 
> I enabled +200MHz max frequency on PBO and I'm getting up to 4.8GHz in some cases with light loads, but under heavy single core load it will hit a max of 4.64GHz (which I believe is the rated max boost frequency anyway).



Yep, the +200 is all i needed and each core is passing 5GHz sooner or later, according to HWinfo


----------



## Flyordie (Nov 21, 2020)

Its so weird seeing the tables turned on Ryzen.  1st Gen liked TIGHT timings and mid-low speeds. The new ones want high clocks and middle of the road timings. 

I've been fiddling with my 4x8GB kit of B-Die.. K4A8G085WB-BCPB Manufacturing date of June 18-21, 2020 with assembly in August. 3200Mhz @ 12-13-13-28 @ 1.375V. I hit a wall at 3466 @ 14-14-14 so went for the tighter timings to see how well it'd do. Does better with tighter timings.


----------



## thesmokingman (Nov 21, 2020)

Flyordie said:


> Its so weird seeing the tables turned on Ryzen.  1st Gen liked TIGHT timings and mid-low speeds. The new ones want high clocks and middle of the road timings.
> 
> I've been fiddling with my 4x8GB kit of B-Die.. K4A8G085WB-BCPB Manufacturing date of June 18-21, 2020 with assembly in August. 3200Mhz @ 12-13-13-28 @ 1.375V. I hit a wall at 3466 @ 14-14-14 so went for the tighter timings to see how well it'd do. Does better with tighter timings.



I'm not so sure. The default latency of Zen 2 is 71ns and Zen 3 improved that to 62ns roughly. All the chips though will improve a lil with lower latency ram since that is the one weak spot of the design. It might look like it's not a big deal on Zen 3 but I think that may be just because Zen 3's latency was improved to such a great extent. And when put into context, the L3 cache was doubled and that implies a 9 tick (ns) penalty which is added on top. Thus AMD not only lowered the latency, but they had to jump thru a whole other set of hoops to overcome the added latency of the extra cache. The end result is 62ns at 3200mhz with average timings. If you look at some of the crazy overclocked ram setups, you'll see some guys running stupid high dram speeds with shockingly tight timings (4200mhz/2100 fabric cas 14) netting them around 48ns. That is nipping on heals of Intel latency!


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 21, 2020)

Flyordie said:


> Its so weird seeing the tables turned on Ryzen.  1st Gen liked TIGHT timings and mid-low speeds. The new ones want high clocks and middle of the road timings.
> 
> I've been fiddling with my 4x8GB kit of B-Die.. K4A8G085WB-BCPB Manufacturing date of June 18-21, 2020 with assembly in August. 3200Mhz @ 12-13-13-28 @ 1.375V. I hit a wall at 3466 @ 14-14-14 so went for the tighter timings to see how well it'd do. Does better with tighter timings.




3200 cas 12 mighty impressive... can you run aida64 memory test ands hare your latency ns score?  i am curious...



thesmokingman said:


> I'm not so sure. The default latency of Zen 2 is 71ns and Zen 3 improved that to 62ns roughly. All the chips though will improve a lil with lower latency ram since that is the one weak spot of the design. It might look like it's not a big deal on Zen 3 but I think that may be just because Zen 3's latency was improved to such a great extent. And when put into context, the L3 cache was doubled and that implies a 9 tick (ns) penalty which is added on top. Thus AMD not only lowered the latency, but they had to jump thru a whole other set of hoops to overcome the added latency of the extra cache. The end result is 62ns at 3200mhz with average timings. If you look at some of the crazy overclocked ram setups, you'll see some guys running stupid high dram speeds with shockingly tight timings (4200mhz/2100 fabric cas 14) netting them around 48ns. That is nipping on heals of Intel latency!



my 3600 cas 14 is hitting 57-58 ns range. i'd like to get it down to 52ns when the new bIos hits in a month or two.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 22, 2020)

So some fun Hwinfo stats after playing some starcraft II on ultra for a bit.

All cores hanging around 5GHz (i'm slightly undervolted atm)





temps: high compared to previous gen, but running great for this gen





Giggle, i just love the AIO on the GTX 1080





DX9 games just do not require much electrical juice to run...


----------



## Alyjen (Nov 22, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Finally broke 108s, looks like tRFC all of a sudden decided to start mattering again, and a big difference at that.
> 
> Anybody able to run both 3800CL14 and 4000CL16 on Ryzen 5000 able to give me some membench results? I can't compare the two as there's something preventing me from doing 3800CL14 on my Viper Steel, not even 14-15-15 or 14-16-16.


This test? Best I have so far is 3800CL16, CL15 is not doable, GDM:OFF even if I try to tweak everything is super unstable. I haven't tried going to CL14 yet, I'd rather have 4000CL16 if they fix IF with further bios updates. My boots with Memory set to 4000MHz and FCLK to 2000 but it drops tons of WHEA warnings.


----------



## Kissamies (Nov 22, 2020)

3600 @ 4.3GHz all-core here. Still haven't got faster RAM, I know that I'd get extra performance with faster RAM, but it's not on the number one on my to-get list.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 22, 2020)

Alyjen said:


> This test? Best I have so far is 3800CL16, CL15 is not doable, GDM:OFF even if I try to tweak everything is super unstable. I haven't tried going to CL14 yet, I'd rather have 4000CL16 if they fix IF with further bios updates. My boots with Memory set to 4000MHz and FCLK to 2000 but it drops tons of WHEA warnings. View attachment 176618




whats your aida64 memory latency?  im curious how much it varies between these programs. i get 64ns in 1usmus, but 57 in aida64.  3600 cas 14 dual ranked.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 22, 2020)

Alyjen said:


> This test? Best I have so far is 3800CL16, CL15 is not doable, GDM:OFF even if I try to tweak everything is super unstable. I haven't tried going to CL14 yet, I'd rather have 4000CL16 if they fix IF with further bios updates. My boots with Memory set to 4000MHz and FCLK to 2000 but it drops tons of WHEA warnings. View attachment 176618



Thanks for the results, looking for 14 tho. I have Renoir 4650G; 2000 is not a problem. Our 3800 results are comparable.

But my B550I AX refuses to post 3800/14 on my B-die, so just curious if I stood to gain anything from 4000/16 to 3800/14 if I could make it work. I need extra VSOC to handle the 4000/4133 speeds right now but I could relax it for 3800.

All of the ~108s record holders on the spreadsheet are running 3800/14 because Ryzen 3000 can't do more speed. Still haven't found a submission button for my 107s result 

You 5000 guys are already kicking my ass on AIDA latency, but it looks like actual perf in membench is about the same.

If you want to try odd tCL you have to do as Intel guys do and run 2T. It's not ideal on performance and may be slower than CL16 GDM, but thats the idea behind GDM.


----------



## Alyjen (Nov 23, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> whats your aida64 memory latency?  im curious how much it varies between these programs. i get 64ns in 1usmus, but 57 in aida64.  3600 cas 14 dual ranked.


lowest I saw in AIDA with 3800CL16 and optimized subs was 54.2, pretty consistent in 54.x range

I'm tempted to play with it but I don't want to break overall great stability. I found that it's very easy to improve benchmarks at the cost of WHEA-19 warnings. With the current settings I can do 20 cycles of TM5 or 30 minutes of OCCT and not only it'll pass but won't generate a single WHEA error.
That's why I left FCLK 2000 for now, tons of errors and results worse than stock.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Nov 23, 2020)

Disabling boost works quite well. In gaming the max Vcore drops from 1.45V down to 1.0V, temps from 82C down to 62C and CPU power consumption is down 30%. The only drawback is a maximum speed of 3.7GHz but now that summer is here it's a good thing to dial it back. I've noticed that the 5600X slowly warms the room up during the day.


----------



## Alyjen (Nov 23, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Disabling boost works quite well. In gaming the max Vcore drops from 1.45V down to 1.0V, temps from 82C down to 62C and CPU power consumption is down 30%. The only drawback is a maximum speed of 3.7GHz but now that summer is here it's a good thing to dial it back. I've noticed that the 5600X slowly warms the room up during the day.


I think if you want to save some temperatures & still have performance in games then disabling SMT (AMD's HT) should do the trick. Or playing with ECO mode (or manually lowering power limits).


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 23, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Disabling boost works quite well. In gaming the max Vcore drops from 1.45V down to 1.0V, temps from 82C down to 62C and CPU power consumption is down 30%. The only drawback is a maximum speed of 3.7GHz but now that summer is here it's a good thing to dial it back. I've noticed that the 5600X slowly warms the room up during the day.




I recommend you try ECO Mode PBO.  It's an awesome setting.  Great temps and you still get high single core boosts.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 23, 2020)

eco mode is great since you can tweak the values further - its more like a template


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Nov 24, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> I recommend you try ECO Mode PBO.  It's an awesome setting.  Great temps and you still get high single core boosts.



Yeah I tried Eco mode but it doesn't seem to do anything. Same power consumption and temps whether it's enabled or disabled. I'll need to have another look at it to see if I can make some manual adjustments.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 24, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Yeah I tried Eco mode but it doesn't seem to do anything. Same power consumption and temps whether it's enabled or disabled. I'll need to have another look at it to see if I can make some manual adjustments.



remember that other settings can override it, you dont want manual clock speeds, voltages etc


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 24, 2020)

For those of you who say my rig is overkill at 1080p, you are very very much in the wrong. once you hit 120 fps there is severe diminishing returns, I agree with that, but even then most games I am trying can not break 80-90 on Ultra settings at 1080p, and this is with my 5600x oc'd to the max. 

I just tried playing ghost recon wildlands, and got my *** handed to me. Had to lower settings to high from Ultra/very high in order to hit a nice 130 frames. Ideally, all my games would run at 120+ fps for the ultimate smoothness. Even an old game like Shogun 2 Total War is crippled in large scale battles and can't break 60 fps, once I lower settings its decent. But yeah... I am impressed on games like Witcher 3 though maxed out and 165 fps, its noticeably more immersive to me than even at 100 fps.  just imo of course.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Nov 24, 2020)

Looks like there's some interesting power saving updates coming too:









						Ryzen 5000 Series Gets In The Undervolting Action With Precision Boost Overdrive 2
					

The Ryzen 5000 Series are about to get quite the boost with Precision Boost Overdrive 2 and Curve Optimizer in the upcoming AGESA.




					wccftech.com


----------



## biffzinker (Nov 24, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Looks like there's some interesting power saving updates coming too:


There's a news thread on the forums.








						AMD to Introduce Adaptive Undervolting to Precision Boost Overdrive for Ryzen 5000
					

AMD has announced they will be introducing Adaptive Undervolting tools for their precision Boost Overdrive software, available for the latest Ryzen 5000 series CPUs. This feature will be made available come launch of AGESA 1180 on 400-series and 500-series motherboards (estimated availability in...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Nov 24, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> There's a news thread on the forums.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Didn't see it, I just refer to whichever article I saw first. The Techpowerup article is much more informative though.

Update: New video from AMD


----------



## droopyRO (Nov 25, 2020)

I updated the BIOS on my X570 Elite to F31j. I noticed stutter in game (War 40k Mechanicus ) i opened MSI Afterburner and saw huge frame time variations. I changed only two things from the default settings, undervolt by offset -0.03V and RAM speed to 3600. I loaded up user defaults, and all things were normal, i then reapply the undervolt and the stutter was back.
See the clip i made. Now i have the voltage on Auto again, all is good, but this is weird with the previous F31f BIOS i had no issues.
Could it be a bug in AGESA or something ? It is not big a problem for me, but any one else have this issue ?


----------



## Mussels (Nov 26, 2020)

*sips intel fanboy tears, over 5GHz*


----------



## Alyjen (Nov 30, 2020)

Gents, a different question
Lets say I don't want to push my cooling to the limits yet (there's no use case that would make me CPU bound), but also I don't want to go all the way down to ECO mode, how would you set these 3 limits PPT (W) TDC (A) EDC (A) for 5800X  to get most of it's performance without getting too high power consumption? Which one is the most important? 
ECO sets them to PPT 87W, TDC 60A, EDC 90W, in benchmarks I lose less than 10% multi core performance, in games even less as single core boost seems mostly unaffected.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 30, 2020)

just lower PPT if you want the heat/power consumption reduced, then you get the snazzy boost clocks without the smashing heat


----------



## Alyjen (Nov 30, 2020)

Mussels said:


> just lower PPT if you want the heat/power consumption reduced, then you get the snazzy boost clocks without the smashing heat


Ok and current limits should stay on default for platform, since power limited CPU won't take as much juice anyway I guess, thanks!


----------



## Mussels (Nov 30, 2020)

Just started playing with the new curve optimiser... i feel like it's gunna replace manual OC'ing pretty fast


----------



## Alyjen (Nov 30, 2020)

Mussels said:


> Just started playing with the new curve optimiser... i feel like it's gunna replace manual OC'ing pretty fast


well, PBO limits are similar in a way and curve optimiser just adds over/under voltage control to it, at least this is how I understand this two features combined


----------



## Mussels (Nov 30, 2020)

Alyjen said:


> well, PBO limits are similar in a way and curve optimiser just adds over/under voltage control to it, at least this is how I understand this two features combined



undervolting per core, so you figure out which ones are better than others and tweak the volts

as soon as you lower the power to a single core, the rest can boost higher... lets you narrow it right in. I just need a benchmark tool i can lock to each core, i guess


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Dec 2, 2020)

Less than one year ago, all three of the household computers were Intel. Now they're all AMD Ryzens.

Both the Core i3 4170 and Core i3 6100 have been upgraded to Ryzen 3 3100's, and my Core i5 4670K was retired for the 5600X.

Probably sounds like a broken record at this point, but damn, AMD has come a long way.


----------



## harm9963 (Dec 3, 2020)

Mussels said:


> Just started playing with the new curve optimiser... i feel like it's gunna replace manual OC'ing pretty fast


No question about it , for me  anyways


----------



## Mussels (Dec 3, 2020)

With my chip hitting 5050Mhz and some people on other mobos reporting that you can change the +200 to +400, i'd rather stick with the curve than get stuck single threaded 500MHz lower


----------



## Alyjen (Dec 3, 2020)

I know overclocking is an art so it doesn't have to make sense, but scores of ~6300 in CB R20 is less than 5% higher than you get from stock setting. If you can pull it with less power, and then plan to use it for professional work then I guess it's great, few % faster, for less $. Otherwise I'd play with it for a while and then forget. 
If you use some more memory dependant benchmark (I like to use Geekbench for that) you'll see double digit gains by just setting your memory right


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 3, 2020)

Alyjen said:


> I know overclocking is an art


It really is and like most other forms of art, it takes skill, experience and some intuition.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 3, 2020)

I wanna play with the curve more but i was getting crashes at idle not load, so its hard to automate that


----------



## Alyjen (Dec 3, 2020)

Mussels said:


> I wanna play with the curve more but i was getting crashes at idle not load, so its hard to automate that


Well, part of the issue is that we're all playing with beta version of this feature. It's still AGESA 1.1.0.0 while what was advertised by AMD was with AGESA 1.1.8.0


----------



## harm9963 (Dec 3, 2020)

Hit and miss with some system ,  par with Beta , but have to say, my x470 is performing beyond expectation , future BIOS will address issue's ,we hope .

 5806 Beta  PRIME X470-PRO BIOS 5806
1. Update AMD AM4 AGESA V2 PI 1.1.8.0 for new CPU support
2. It’s highly recommended not to update this beta BIOS when using AMD AM4 Socket for AMD Ryzen™ 3000 Series/ 2000 Series/ 1000 Series/ A-Series Desktop Processors.
3. This beta BIOS can’t be reversed.


----------



## Calmmo (Dec 3, 2020)

One last attempt to pbo my 3900x before (at some point when i can get one for less than 600euros anyway) I replace it with a 5900x..
Last time i tried must have been 10-11 months ago.. good to see it's still not doing anything at all for this particular cpu.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 4, 2020)

Managing to slowly reign in my curve

Sadly my 240mm AIO gets heat saturated after a while and i eventually hit thermal throttle... :O


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 7, 2020)

105 seconds membench


 

That AIDA latency do be hitting a wall though. Just can't break through. Haven't successfully booted 4200 yet.



Just waiting on some AGESA 1180 BIOSes for you Ryzen 5000 comrades, so you can get up here to compete at 4000    these news CPUs seem like they should be a hair lower latency than Renoir


----------



## Alyjen (Dec 10, 2020)

got AGESA 1.1.8.0. for my ASUS yesterday. FCLK 1900 is even easier and this time 100% error free. 2000 or even 1933 at auto settings is no go. Not only tons of WHEAs but also I instantly loose my pcie sound and wlan card


----------



## KainXS (Dec 13, 2020)

Finally made the jump to Ryzen and upgraded from my old 3770k system to a 5800X

Feels Good

Can't find a GPU anywhere though, I am thinking of just going with an old 2080ti if I can get one cheap.


----------



## stinger608 (Dec 13, 2020)

KainXS said:


> Can't find a GPU anywhere though, I am thinking of just going with an old 2080ti if I can get one cheap.




Good luck on that!!! All the 2080 series cards I've seen are insane priced in the used markets.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 13, 2020)

better off with a 3060Ti, for the modern features really


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 13, 2020)

KainXS said:


> I am thinking of just going with an old 2080ti if I can get one cheap.


Or a 2080 if you can get one for a good price.



Mussels said:


> better off with a 3060Ti, for the modern features really


Good point!


----------



## KainXS (Dec 14, 2020)

I just looked at it and yup even locally the prices of a used 2080ti are still around 900, I mean I can wait, my good ol 1070 is still running strong i guess.



I'm really trying to figure out Ryzen overclocking though, curves can hit 5Ghz on the 5800X, maybe with a DR4P?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 14, 2020)

KainXS said:


> I just looked at it and yup even locally the prices of a used 2080ti are still around 900, I mean I can wait, my good ol 1070 is still running strong i guess.
> 
> View attachment 179542
> 
> I'm really trying to figure out Ryzen overclocking though, curves can hit 5Ghz on the 5800X, maybe with a DR4P?


This is a decent price and it's not too far from you!








						EVGA NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 XC 8GB GDDR6 Graphics Card 08G-P4-2182-KR Tested  | eBay
					

EVGA NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 XC 8GB GDDR6 Graphics Card 08G-P4-2182-KR Tested and Working in Good Condition. Card was pulled from a working build.



					www.ebay.com
				



$649 shipped. 100% seller feedback.

Then there's this one at $638 shipped.








						GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 2080 8gb Gddr6 Windforce Pci-e Video Card Gv-n2080wf3-8g for sale online | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 2080 8gb Gddr6 Windforce Pci-e Video Card Gv-n2080wf3-8g at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				



A little further away though but also 100% seller feedback.

There's some options and unless you need the extra VRAM, the 2080ti is going to be a pricey card still.


----------



## Calmmo (Dec 15, 2020)

1.1.0.0 Agesa, PBO with with negative 10 offset, 3x scalar - haven't tried with +200mhz yet


----------



## Space Lynx (Dec 15, 2020)

hmm still no new bios for my x570 tomahawk, dang.  oh well, looks like Asus and Gigabyte were the first to come out with new BIOS this time, last time it was MSI that was first lol


----------



## Mussels (Dec 15, 2020)

-5 offset works for me, -7 crashes at idle (skipped -6)

Currently testing all cores -5, except 1 and 2 and -10 so i can narrow down the weak core

Edit: at +200


----------



## Calmmo (Dec 15, 2020)

Not stable with +200 and -10 offset, and when i did eventually get it working i got lower scores, +150 works pretty good.

I'm not super hot on the current voltage curve on this bios tho, ive gone with pbo with 125ppt and -5 offset (145 is stock) to limit the boosting for now till gigabyte sort their crappy bios.  (1.1.8.0 cant come fast enough


----------



## Space Lynx (Dec 15, 2020)

Calmmo said:


> (1.1.8.0 cant come fast enough



when is this expected to release? in a general sense, I know each company is different, but on AMD's end?


----------



## Calmmo (Dec 15, 2020)

No, gigabyte 100% have it, just like everyone else, they just havent released anything yet, heck they don't even have a non beta of 1.1.0.0 out.


----------



## KainXS (Dec 15, 2020)

Went to microcenter to get a sound card and they had 3070's and 3090's in stock, so I picked up a TUF 3070, and a Xonar Essence STX II which ended up being DOA.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 15, 2020)

KainXS said:


> Went to microcenter to get a sound card and they had 3070's and 3090's in stock, so I picked up a TUF 3070, and a Xonar Essence STX II which ended up being DOA.


Which one was DOA?


----------



## KainXS (Dec 15, 2020)

The Xonar, pretty funny because thats what I really wanted but it bootloops my PC's.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 15, 2020)

KainXS said:


> The Xonar, pretty funny because thats what I really wanted but it bootloops my PC's.


That sucks, those are good cards.


----------



## dgianstefani (Dec 15, 2020)

I AM SPEED

Did a 4.7/4.6ghz CCD0/1 all core OC @1.3v too. Beating out a 32core threadripper!

Mostly stable at 4000/2000 but will wait for some new AGESA patches first.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 15, 2020)

Wrong tab was open, ignore this post


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Dec 17, 2020)

This new PBO2 update seems to be the silver bullet that Ryzen 5000 was waiting for. Previously I was getting 4.4GHz all-core and now it's at 4.6GHz all-core. The +200MHz offset actually does something useful now and increased single-core performance by around 4%. It seemed like overclocking just wasn't working properly on the old bios.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Dec 19, 2020)

Anyone else having instability issues with Precision Boost enabled? My system was randomly hard resetting itself and it stopped when I disabled it. I might need to wait for a new bios revision before trying again. Good thing the performance with PBO disabled is still right up there anyway.


----------



## Caring1 (Dec 19, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Anyone else having instability issues with Precision Boost enabled? My system was randomly hard resetting itself and it stopped when I disabled it. I might need to wait for a new bios revision before trying again. Good thing the performance with PBO disabled is still right up there anyway.


Usually Ram related.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 19, 2020)

Just curious about my boost.. does this look normal? Everything is set to auto in the bios mems @ docp 3200. Just trying to figure out why its boosting so high, 4500 is supposed to be the top, with the odd excursion to 4600, but it routinely hits 4600 and the odd excursion to 4700. Windows power is set to balanced and I'm using the stock cooler with TFX paste.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 19, 2020)

HWmonitor is crap, use HWinfo64


----------



## freeagent (Dec 20, 2020)

Ok thanks.


----------



## NoJuan999 (Dec 20, 2020)

Use HWInfo or Ryzen Master to check Boost Clocks.








						Free Download HWiNFO Sofware | Installer & Portable for Windows, DOS
					

Start to analyze your hardware right now! HWiNFO has available as an Installer and Portable version for Windows (32/64-bit) and Portable version for DOS.




					www.hwinfo.com
				



HWMonitor does Not work properly with Ryzen CPUs.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Dec 20, 2020)

Caring1 said:


> Usually Ram related.



Doesn't seem to be the case in this instance. I ran MemTest for an hour with no errors.

It still crashes around once per day with only XMP enabled, and the event viewer from the last crash reported this after a sudden shutdown:






I tried reverting back to an older bios (which didn't have this issue) but it refuses to recognize any of the older bios file


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 20, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Doesn't seem to be the case in this instance. I ran MemTest for an hour with no errors.
> 
> It still crashes around once per day with only XMP enabled, and the event viewer from the last crash reported this after a sudden shutdown:
> 
> I tried reverting back to an older bios (which didn't have this issue) but it refuses to recognize any of the older bios file



Which memtest? An hour isn't long at all in any of the well-regarded memory stress tests, but tbh something like 3600 CL18 shouldn't even need 1.35V.

PBO isn't guaranteed to be stable. Poor firmware, bad settings, attempts at EDC trick on a chip that doesn't like it can all result in instability = reboots. Been there done that, not fun.

Cache hierarchy was a bit infamous for Ryzen 3000. Sometimes it's bad firmware, sometimes it's an idle Vcore issue so you can disable C-states to get rid of it, other times people just RMA'd their CPU. Actually, if the Internet is to be believed, most 3000 owners running into it just RMA'd their CPUs. But you can try the easy stuff first, different firmwares and ways to get around bad idle voltage firmware. Gut feeling tells me it's not going to need an RMA, probably bad firmware.

I'd go back to stock with PBO completely disabled and see what happens. The promised "fully featured/stable" firmware is what comes after AGESA 1180 and AFAIK it hasn't yet surfaced.


----------



## dont whant to set it"' (Dec 20, 2020)

Asus Rog strix b550-f
Do I have a case on hand in which the motherboard doesn't get into bios /UEFI after multiple restarts from os , yes , when vigorously pressing F2 and DEL when it POST's.

After a few restarts it instantly displays something about bad checksum error.

 This happened months ago as well with an r3 3300x across multiple firmwares , yet again these days with the r7 5800x , on with the latest firmware wich I updated at first power with the motherboard feature(bios flashback of sorts without actually fully initializing the power on sequence).

Option 1 : it's my money , RMA.( I can return it till 31jan2021 no questions asked).
Option 2 : wait for a better firmware , but the again it's my money .
Option 3 : open to other options.
Thoughts?


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Dec 20, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Which memtest? An hour isn't long at all in any of the well-regarded memory stress tests, but tbh something like 3600 CL18 shouldn't even need 1.35V.
> 
> PBO isn't guaranteed to be stable. Poor firmware, bad settings, attempts at EDC trick on a chip that doesn't like it can all result in instability = reboots. Been there done that, not fun.
> 
> ...



I'm pretty sure it's an instability issue with the new AGESA too. Disabling PBO decreased the frequency of the crashes but they still happen. It was a very stable system before updating to AGESA 1180 and I didn't have a single crash until then. I might just hold out for a bios update, at least I'm not doing any important work over Christmas.


----------



## Calmmo (Dec 20, 2020)

Gigabyte are saying 1.1.8.x is so buggy that they won't even be releasing it for their boards. So you're probably right that it's AMD's code that's the issue.


----------



## Alyjen (Dec 20, 2020)

Don't scare me like that.. I'm on 1.1.8.0. for my ASUS board and it's noticeable better with whea warnings than 1.1.0.0. patch C was. I don't have to drop all the way to FCLK 1600 to have it stable, currently I'm at 1866 and not a single warning for a week.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Dec 20, 2020)

I was able to successfully downgrade with USB Flashback to the earlier AGESA 1.1.0.0 Patch B bios I was using before. EZ Flash 3 failed to read the same bios file on the same USB drive. No idea why. I'll see how the stability has changed over the next day or two.


----------



## dgianstefani (Dec 22, 2020)

Spent another 2 hours tweaking to shave off 2ns lmao... WORTH IT







dgianstefani said:


> I AM SPEED
> 
> Did a 4.7/4.6ghz CCD0/1 all core OC @1.3v too. Beating out a 32core threadripper!
> 
> ...


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 22, 2020)

Hi. 

I'm joining the club with a 5950X. I had a temporary 3100 for a while, but that's a different story.

As a new Ryzen 9 owner, what I'm mainly interested in is what temperatures and clock speeds you guys get. I have an Asus Tuf Gaming B550M-Plus (Wifi) motherboard and a Corsair H100i Platinum cooler. All I've done so far is enable PBO and I get around 80-82 °C when stressing all cores with Intel Burn Test with clocks around 4.6 GHz. Is this normal?


----------



## dgianstefani (Dec 22, 2020)

I get 5.25 on one core and 5.175 on 3 other cores on my 5950x with curve optimiser and Pbo enabled. Rest of cores are around 4.8/4.9.


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## AusWolf (Dec 22, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> I get 5.25 on one core and 5.175 on 3 other cores on my 5950x with curve optimiser and Pbo enabled. Rest of cores are around 4.8/4.9.


Hmm, I haven't looked at individual core frequencies. Also, how are you doing with temperatures? What's normal for a 5950X under load?


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## INSTG8R (Dec 22, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> I get 5.25 on one core and 5.175 on 3 other cores on my 5950x with curve optimiser and Pbo enabled. Rest of cores are around 4.8/4.9.


I’m. Curious bout the curve optimizer? I have just been messing with PBO limits and the scalar to get myself to 4325 all coe on my 3700X. Patently waiting for my 5600X to arrive but I’ve had enough time with my 3700X I’m pretty confident I will easily get it up and running at least as fast as my own tweaks have got me +the new Arch
just a little hint of what I’m looking for my runs with CTR rated it a golden chip and tests had running 4400 all core easil. Sadly actually being able to use CTR as OC tool was nothing but failures  But I‘m and old school BIOS tweaker anyway, Basically the best I can fo


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Dec 23, 2020)

Two days after the bios flashback and not a single issue with stability. All good.


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 27, 2020)

Hi. Addressing especially 5000 series owners, but every comment is welcome. 

Topic: Idle clocks.
So, I've been playing around the Windows power settings on my 5950X as I didn't like seeing clocks way over the base 3.4 GHz while idling on the desktop, and temperatures around 45 C. The _Power Saver_ plan brought the best results with idle clocks of 2.2 GHz, however this makes the CPU not boost in lightly threaded workloads (I tested with Cinebench R23 single thread). The second best option is the _Balanced_ power plan with the _Power Mode_ slider set to _Best Energy Savings_. This gives me an idle clock of 3 GHz while maintaining normal boost frequencies. Playing with the minimum and maximum power state percentages in the _Processor Power Management_ tab has absolutely no effect.

I have all BIOS settings on, including C-states and PBO except for ASUS optimised boost (or whatever it's called) which only seems to increase power consumption by roughly 40 Watts for no reason.

The question is: What is the best option to make the processor boost and idle at the proper frequencies? Are you guys struggling to find the sweet spot too?


----------



## INSTG8R (Dec 27, 2020)

AusWolf said:


> Hi. Addressing especially 5000 series owners, but every comment is welcome.
> 
> Topic: Idle clocks.
> So, I've been playing around the Windows power settings on my 5950X as I didn't like seeing clocks way over the base 3.4 GHz while idling on the desktop, and temperatures around 45 C. The _Power Saver_ plan brought the best results with idle clocks of 2.2 GHz, however this makes the CPU not boost in lightly threaded workloads (I tested with Cinebench R23 single thread). The second best option is the _Balanced_ power plan with the _Power Mode_ slider set to _Best Energy Savings_. This gives me an idle clock of 3 GHz while maintaining normal boost frequencies. Playing with the minimum and maximum power state percentages in the _Processor Power Management_ tab has absolutely no effect.
> ...


Apprently they don’t need them so I’m gonna guess the next chipset driver update would remove them for Zen3?








						AMD Robert Hallock promises Ryzen 5000 undervolting with new functionality - VideoCardz.com
					

AMD Director of Technical Marketing – Robert Hallock – provided more details on Ryzen 5000 series compatibility, upcoming features, and upgrade opportunities for users with AMD 500 series motherboards. AMD lifts the curtain on Ryzen 5000 series Yesterday AMD released its Ryzen 5000 series...




					videocardz.com


----------



## Mussels (Dec 27, 2020)

balanced plan is the best - the cores power off completely, disabled cores read as the last state they were powered on as.

There is like a 30W difference between high performance and balanced at idle, but <5W from balanced to power saving in my testing.


----------



## INSTG8R (Dec 28, 2020)

Mussels said:


> balanced plan is the best - the cores power off completely, disabled cores read as the last state they were powered on as.
> 
> There is like a 30W difference between high performance and balanced at idle, but <5W from balanced to power saving in my testing.


I should have my 5600X next week but I do wonder if there will be an updated chipset driver removing the current Ryzen plans for Zen 3. I mean I use the High Performance plan for my Zen3 but just set the Minimal Processor State to 5% as I've always done with Intels. I'm also quite interested how the this new Power Curve in PBO/Auto OC will work compared to Zen 2 I already undervolt now and could probably go even lower than my current 1.34v high and still have no issues but this Power Curve will apparently eliminate the need for any offsets while keeping voltage low


----------



## biffzinker (Dec 28, 2020)

INSTG8R said:


> I do wonder if there will be an updated chipset driver removing the current Ryzen plans for Zen 3.


The power plans are required for Zen2 - Zen unless a future update for Windows makes them redundant.


----------



## INSTG8R (Dec 28, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> The power plans are required for Zen2 - Zen unless a future update for Windows makes them redundant.


Yes but its the AMD chipset drivers that install them. So I'm wondering if a new package would eliminate them if a Zen 3 was present.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 28, 2020)

INSTG8R said:


> Yes but its the AMD chipset drivers that install them. So I'm wondering if a new package would eliminate them if a Zen 3 was present.



they dont install if you have a zen 3 CPU, i think they get hidden or removed when you install the chipset driver - i had to reinstall the chipset driver and ryzen master after the CPU change


----------



## INSTG8R (Dec 28, 2020)

Mussels said:


> they dont install if you have a zen 3 CPU, i think they get hidden or removed when you install the chipset driver - i had to reinstall the chipset driver and ryzen master after the CPU change


There we go, that is what I was expecting, Thanks! My retailer will supposedly have stock Jan2(I didn't check that when I pulled the trigger 2 weeks ago)So hopefully early next week I get to to see what all the cool  new stuff can do


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 28, 2020)

Mussels said:


> balanced plan is the best - the cores power off completely, disabled cores read as the last state they were powered on as.
> 
> There is like a 30W difference between high performance and balanced at idle, but <5W from balanced to power saving in my testing.


Interestingly, the Balanced plan by default keeps my CPU around 45 C at idle. Task Manager reads 4-4.2 GHz, and HWInfo64 reports power consumption being around 60 Watts. Only if I drag the Power Mode slider down to _Best Energy Savings_ do the cores throttle down to 3 GHz when idle, and power consumption gets halved (30 W). Temperatures drop by a good 10 C too.

The Power Saver mode has the best idle results with 2.2 GHz in my testing, but it messes with boost behaviours under load. It would be nice to have a real balance between the two.


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 28, 2020)

AusWolf said:


> Interestingly, the Balanced plan by default keeps my CPU around 45 C at idle. Task Manager reads 4-4.2 GHz, and HWInfo64 reports power consumption being around 60 Watts. Only if I drag the Power Mode slider down to _Best Energy Savings_ do the cores throttle down to 3 GHz when idle, and power consumption gets halved (30 W). Temperatures drop by a good 10 C too.
> 
> The Power Saver mode has the best idle results with 2.2 GHz in my testing, but it messes with boost behaviours under load. It would be nice to have a real balance between the two.



1. Temps are normal and have been since last July's launch of 3000. Owners need to stop thinking of CPUs as either being "idle" or "load". Usage is always a constant spectrum, and Ryzen behaviour reflects this. If you've walked away from your PC and it's truly idle, it'll be down in the 30s and low 40s.

2. If you see 60W at "idle" on SMU package power or Core+SoC Power, then you're really not idling, regardless of what plan you're on or if even if you have C-states disabled. Ryzen doesn't work that way. 50-60W and there's most likely an application in the background loading up one or two threads. Again, "idle" is rare in reality.

3. These "3GHz" and "2.2GHz" clocks mean nothing, because outside of a meaningful amount of load, the "Core Clock" reporting for Ryzen is bogus. "Effective Clock" in HWInfo, and Ryzen Master's reporting, gets you much closer to what's actually going on in the cores at idle.

4. If you're interested in more accurate clock reporting, the current version of HWInfo has a "Snapshot CPU Polling" option in its settings. Doesn't affect effective clock, but on Core Clock and Ratio it'll be closer to effective clock and not so much the "magic" rated boost numbers that AMD wants to show you.


----------



## INSTG8R (Dec 28, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> 1. Temps are normal and have been since last July's launch of 3000. Owners need to stop thinking of CPUs as either being "idle" or "load". Usage is always a constant spectrum, and Ryzen behaviour reflects this. If you've walked away from your PC and it's truly idle, it'll be down in the 30s and low 40s.
> 
> 2. If you see 60W at "idle" on SMU package power or Core+SoC Power, then you're really not idling, regardless of what plan you're on or if even if you have C-states disabled. Ryzen doesn't work that way. 50-60W and there's most likely an application in the background loading up one or two threads. Again, "idle" is rare in reality.
> 
> ...


While I don't really use Ryzen master(I use AIDA64) It most definitely paints a way more accurate picture of what the CPU is clocks are extremely low, cores sleeping that only it can accurately keep track of. I can only guess but with AIDA I can my voltage drop below 1.0V often enough to know that its pretty (idle) As I mentioned in an earlier post I have always used a High Performance profile and just set Minimum Processor State to 5% and the CPU has always dropped to idle clocks.


----------



## biffzinker (Dec 28, 2020)

Should I revert back to stock for my 3800X? Feel like I’m missing out on the 4550/4600 MHz boost for lightly threaded workloads.


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 28, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> 1. Temps are normal and have been since last July's launch of 3000. Owners need to stop thinking of CPUs as either being "idle" or "load". Usage is always a constant spectrum, and Ryzen behaviour reflects this. If you've walked away from your PC and it's truly idle, it'll be down in the 30s and low 40s.
> 
> 2. If you see 60W at "idle" on SMU package power or Core+SoC Power, then you're really not idling, regardless of what plan you're on or if even if you have C-states disabled. Ryzen doesn't work that way. 50-60W and there's most likely an application in the background loading up one or two threads. Again, "idle" is rare in reality.
> 
> ...


That's a lot of useful info, thanks a lot.  I've been wondering for a while how reporting software can display accurate clock speeds of CPUs that change C and P states several hundred times a second.

As for idle power consumption, I only see 60 Watts on Balanced and High Performance power plans. If I use Power Saver, or just simply Balanced with the Power Mode slider dragged all the way down to Best Energy Savings, it gets much closer to 30 W which I'm happy with.

Edit: These are package power values. CPU+SOC Power sits around 15-20 W.



biffzinker said:


> Should I revert back to stock for my 3800X? Feel like I’m missing out on the 4550/4600 MHz boost for lightly threaded workloads.


As far as I'm concerned, overclocking is pretty much dead nowadays. If you overclock your CPU, you'll miss out on lightly threaded clock headroom. If you overclock your GPU, probably nothing will happen, as you're more limited by TDP limits and temperature-bound boost stages than the actual clock frequencies written into the BIOS of the card (of which every modern GPU boosts higher anyway).


----------



## freeagent (Dec 28, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> Should I revert back to stock for my 3800X? Feel like I’m missing out on the 4550/4600 MHz boost for lightly threaded workloads.


 Running @ stock isn't terrible.. but it is boring! Feels like I'm using a dell 

I even resorted to running my stix @ stock because the meager gain from 3200cl4 to 3800cl16 in bandwidth and latency is really not worth the time, tuning, or voltage bump. I'm going to try a Rocket Lake when the time is right.


----------



## sam_86314 (Jan 1, 2021)

Welp, it looks like my beloved Ryzen build, "Space Heater MKIII", has died after just under two years of service (which is absolutely pathetic since MKII is still going strong after four years of me using it and another five years before that).

I went to tweak my memory settings, and it stopped POSTing afterward. CMOS resets, different RAM, and reseating the CPU wouldn't fix it.

I refuse to believe that my CPU is dead, despite the fact that the EZ-Debug CPU light stays lit when I try to power it on. My system was working perfectly before this all happened. I think I'm gonna try replacing my motherboard.

The question is, which motherboard should I switch to? My X470 Gaming Pro has had a few problems before this, so I'll probably stay away from MSI boards.

MKII has an ASUS board, so I'm thinking I'll try them out. The two boards I'm currently looking at are the ASUS TUF X570-PLUS WiFi, and the ASUS ROG Strix B550-F. I can get these two boards for about the same price from my work, but the X570 board is available for pickup tomorrow, while I'd have to wait for the B550 board to ship.

I find the built-in WiFi on the X570 board appealing, but I know that ROG Strix line is supposedly higher tier than the TUF line.

Are there any major differences between these boards that make one much better than the other?


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 1, 2021)

Asus X570e/Dark Hero


----------



## sam_86314 (Jan 1, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Asus X570e/Dark Hero


Those are way out of my budget, unfortunately. If money wasn't an issue, I'd probably go for the Hero VIII.

Also looks like B550 doesn't support Zen+, so I guess the X570 board is the one I'll get.


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 1, 2021)

sam_86314 said:


> Welp, it looks like my beloved Ryzen build, "Space Heater MKIII", has died after just under two years of service (which is absolutely pathetic since MKII is still going strong after four years of me using it and another five years before that).
> 
> I went to tweak my memory settings, and it stopped POSTing afterward. CMOS resets, different RAM, and reseating the CPU wouldn't fix it.
> 
> I refuse to believe that my CPU is dead, despite the fact that the EZ-Debug CPU light stays lit when I try to power it on. My system was working perfectly before this all happened. I think I'm gonna try replacing my motherboard.


I thought the same but the Ryzen 5 3600 gave up, and replacing it with a 3800X got the B450 Tomahawk POSTing again.


----------



## AusWolf (Jan 1, 2021)

sam_86314 said:


> Those are way out of my budget, unfortunately. If money wasn't an issue, I'd probably go for the Hero VIII.
> 
> Also looks like B550 doesn't support Zen+, so I guess the X570 board is the one I'll get.


I used to own Strix boards, but now I have a TUF Gaming B550M-Plus WiFi. Apart from the design, I really can't tell the difference. It has all the features I need, it has a decent VRM with adequate cooling, support for an optional CPU fan / water pump header, plenty of USB 3.0 and 2.0, same good BIOS as any Strix board, etc. If the X570 you're looking at is just as good as mine, I highly recommend it.

As for MSI, I've been trying to assemble a small HTPC for about a month now. The A520M Pro I got for it was not posting, so I RMA'd it. The second one arrived yesterday, and that's not posting either. I'll never buy an MSI motherboard again, and I'll recommend everyone to stay away from them.


----------



## Caring1 (Jan 1, 2021)

sam_86314 said:


> Are there any major differences between these boards that make one much better than the other?


Rog has blingy lights and a higher price.


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 1, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> I used to own Strix boards, but now I have a TUF Gaming B550M-Plus WiFi. Apart from the design, I really can't tell the difference. It has all the features I need, it has a decent VRM with adequate cooling, support for an optional CPU fan / water pump header, plenty of USB 3.0 and 2.0, same good BIOS as any Strix board, etc. If the X570 you're looking at is just as good as mine, I highly recommend it.
> 
> As for MSI, I've been trying to assemble a small HTPC for about a month now. The A520M Pro I got for it was not posting, so I RMA'd it. The second one arrived yesterday, and that's not posting either. I'll never buy an MSI motherboard again, and I'll recommend everyone to stay away from them.


I just abandoned ASUS when they turned TUF from one their most premium brands to a budget brand. While ASUS still mak some great boards they are all the premium brand ones. I decided to try Gigabyte which I probably haven’t used since the original P4. I really find the board quality and performance good I do really miss the ASUS BIOS...I am a little worried now with a 5600X arriving any day now was helping someone with my same board but Wifi and a 5800X that couldn‘t even keep stable completely stock. My 3700X has been rock solid in the board I’ve OC my 3600 to 3800 for a 1900 FClock which iI hope I can use with my 5600X. But trying to help this guy tonight bone stock on a few BIOS with just another crash;reboot has me a little less confident in this board....


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 1, 2021)

Gigabyte Zen 3 bios is shitty.


----------



## AusWolf (Jan 1, 2021)

INSTG8R said:


> I just abandoned ASUS when they turned TUF from one their most premium brands to a budget brand. While ASUS still mak some great boards they are all the premium brand ones. I decided to try Gigabyte which I probably haven’t used since the original P4. I really find the board quality and performance good I do really miss the ASUS BIOS...I am a little worried now with a 5600X arriving any day now was helping someone with my same board but Wifi and a 5800X that couldn‘t even keep stable completely stock. My 3700X has been rock solid in the board I’ve OC my 3600 to 3800 for a 1900 FClock which iI hope I can use with my 5600X. But trying to help this guy tonight bone stock on a few BIOS with just another crash;reboot has me a little less confident in this board....


I never noticed TUF being a budget brand. Some graphics cards might be, but my B550M-Plus is definitely top notch.


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 1, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> I never noticed TUF being a budget brand. Some graphics cards might be, but my B550M-Plus is definitely top notch.


Sadly theyve fallen quite hard since the days of the mighty Sabertooth, literally built like absolute tanks, highest grade components available 5 year warranties. They just don’t have same level of quality the name was built on.


----------



## AusWolf (Jan 1, 2021)

INSTG8R said:


> Sadly theyve fallen quite hard since the days of the mighty Sabertooth, literally built like absolute tanks, highest grade components available 5 year warranties. They just don’t have same level of quality the name was built on.


I never owned the Sabertooth, but I really have nothing to say against my B550M-Plus.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 1, 2021)

INSTG8R said:


> Sadly theyve fallen quite hard since the days of the mighty Sabertooth, literally built like absolute tanks, highest grade components available 5 year warranties. They just don’t have same level of quality the name was built on.



The TUF horror stories aren't exactly as relevant as they used to be. Yes, in the first few generations after TUF became TUF Gaming there were some real questionable products being put out there. After X570, TUF really stepped up and you can really only nitpick on the colour scheme of all things nowadays. Now the ATX TUFs are pretty damn similar to the Strix Fs (which are a pretty awful deal honestly), with 50A DrMOS, very generous heatsinks, 6-layer PCBs for the ATX boards, and all the other bells and whistles. Regardless of whether you're on B550, X570 or Z490.

I have the B550M Wifi and it's a great board, heads and shoulders above its B450 predecessor (though Asus did introduce a refreshed B450M TUF that is literally the same as the B550 minus PCIe 4.0).

And there's the BIOS which has always been excellent in recent years, something I can't say for my Gigabyte boards (whivh are also stout, just wished the BIOSes weren't so inconsistent).

I mean, the Sabertooth was a great board (esp. Mk.1). But if that's the kind of standard you still adhere to, there's disappointment everywhere. ASRock's OCF days are long gone. Gigabyte's SOC/OC Force days are past, though Master is a good board. Strix is and has always been a watered down ROG. On and on.

And let's be real about the "industrial" quality. You could make a point about Asus' claims about exhaustive torture testing, but once you start to look into component choice and PCB design the Sabertooths weren't exactly unicorn dust. If you are discerning about your purchases, you can still find manufacturers going on the extra mile in their component choices nowadays. Just don't expect a cheap price.


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 1, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> I never owned the Sabertooth, but I really have nothing to say against my B550M-Plus.


I’m sure it’s a great board but the original TUF branding was all about near industrial levels of design and quality.


----------



## AusWolf (Jan 1, 2021)

INSTG8R said:


> I’m sure it’s a great board but the original TUF branding was all about near industrial levels of design and quality.


Is this what you mean?


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 1, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> And there's the BIOS which has always been excellent in recent years, something I can't say for my Gigabyte boards (whivh are also stout, just wished the BIOSes weren't so inconsistent).


Oh believe me I really do miss the BIOS most of all now living with Gigabytes...I feel like I’m in the Stone Age again...also seem to be the last one to push out a 1.1.9.0 BIOS but up to Q on 1.1.0.0. I really hope they get it out before my 5600X gets here because apparently it really needs it...



AusWolf said:


> Is this what you mean?
> View attachment 181857


Yeah still got mine in the box with my Z97 Sabertooth


----------



## AusWolf (Jan 1, 2021)

INSTG8R said:


> Oh believe me I really do miss the BIOS most of all now living with Gigabytes...I feel like I’m in the Stone Age again...also seem to be the last one to push out a 1.1.9.0 BIOS but up to Q on 1.1.0.0. I really hope they get it out before my 5600X gets here because apparently it really needs it...
> 
> 
> Yeah still got mine in the box with my Z97 Sabertooth


That's one negative side of the TUF B550M-Plus (Wifi): I'm still on 1.1.0.0 as well (though my 5950X seemingly doesn't mind).


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 1, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> That's one negative side of the TUF B550M-Plus (Wifi): I'm still on 1.1.0.0 as well (though my 5950X seemingly doesn't mind).


unfortunately my experience with another user on the same board as mine  was not great despite me never having a single issue with my 3700X. Everything I could think of made absolutely zero difference to stop his 5800X just constantly crashing.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 1, 2021)

Can I join the cool peoples club


----------



## Mussels (Jan 1, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> Can I join the cool peoples club



systems specs appear legit, you are permitted entry


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 1, 2021)

Mussels said:


> systems specs appear legit, you are permitted entry


My system specs off

no CPU yet

I had the 5600X at launch but had to sell for emergency reasons 

now I await getting another


----------



## Calmmo (Jan 1, 2021)

That's what you get for not putting enough points in cool.


----------



## Chomiq (Jan 1, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> My system specs off
> 
> no CPU yet
> 
> ...


Go back to the end of the line, you're not cool enough


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 1, 2021)

Calmmo said:


> That's what you get for not putting enough points in cool.


I can do IOUs


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 1, 2021)

It’s apparently looking that way from what I experienced and hope it gets fixed before my 5600X gets here hopefully this week...


dgianstefani said:


> Gigabyte Zen 3 bios is shitty.


How they  get up to F31Q with 1.1.0.0 and still the mess I saw last night really has me worried...For Zen 2 it’s been absolutely rock solid...


----------



## nasky (Jan 1, 2021)

Do you guys know if there is some sort of adaptive downlock on FCLK on zen 2 processors ?

I'm saying this because I'm undervolting my soc because Asus auto is stupidly high (1100mV), so basically I went all the way down to 875mV stable but I lost 200pts on cinebench, going up to 925mV I recovered my initial performance, my FCLK is set at 1766 BTW


----------



## AusWolf (Jan 1, 2021)

nasky said:


> Do you guys know if there is some sort of adaptive downlock on FCLK on zen 2 processors ?
> 
> I'm saying this because I'm undervolting my soc because Asus auto is stupidly high (1100mV), so basically I went all the way down to 875mV stable but I lost 200pts on cinebench, going up to 925mV I recovered my initial performance, my FCLK is set at 1766 BTW


I'm not so sure, but there is definitely an "adaptive downclock" on the CPU. Since the memory controller is within the CPU package, I guess your CPU clocks somehow got affected by reducing the SOC voltage.

I personally leave everything on Auto, unless I'm experiencing overheating and/or stability issues - except for the Asus optimizer (or whatever it's called) which basically just pumps voltage into the CPU until it can keep its single core turbo speed all the time (which I don't need anyway).


----------



## nasky (Jan 1, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> I'm not so sure, but there is definitely an "adaptive downclock" on the CPU. Since the memory controller is within the CPU package, I guess your CPU clocks somehow got affected by reducing the SOC voltage.
> 
> I personally leave everything on Auto, unless I'm experiencing overheating and/or stability issues - except for the Asus optimizer (or whatever it's called) which basically just pumps voltage into the CPU until it can keep its single core turbo speed all the time (which I don't need anyway).


I dont use PBO and manually set CPU voltage and multiplier on the bios so I dont think CPU is downclocked since I only touch the soc voltage ( + vddp/g)

By manually setting soc voltage I reduced CPU temperature by 7°C and around 6W on soc side so defintiely something to look for


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 1, 2021)

nasky said:


> I dont use PBO and manually set CPU voltage and multiplier on the bios so I dont think CPU is downclocked since I only touch the soc voltage ( + vddp/g)
> 
> By manually setting soc voltage I reduced CPU temperature by 7°C and around 6W on soc side so defintiely something to look for


Well yeah setting multi manually will set it static at whatever you chose and never downclock


----------



## nasky (Jan 1, 2021)

so no clue as to why manually undervolting soc to a certain extent can reduce performance on zen2 while being stable ?


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 1, 2021)

nasky said:


> so no clue as to why manually undervolting soc to a certain extent can reduce performance on zen2 while being stable ?


Well SoC handles the RAM/IF  so maybe the loss is coming from there


----------



## nasky (Jan 1, 2021)

INSTG8R said:


> Well SoC handles the RAM/IF  so maybe the loss is coming from there


Ok so you have no clue too 

My experience shows me that if voltage is insufficient you'll get unstabilities not drop of performance that is why I am asking the question here, can someone reproduce this behaviour ?


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 1, 2021)

nasky said:


> Ok so you have no clue too
> 
> My experience shows me that if voltage is insufficient you'll get unstabilities not drop of performance that is why I am asking the question here, can someone reproduce this behaviour ?


the SoC literally controls the RAM and Infinity fabric relations. How low are you actually trying to set it? you're trying to stay "around" 1.1 mine runs at 1.092 lowering below 1.1 would never do anything that would improve performance that is for certain,,,,


----------



## Alyjen (Jan 1, 2021)

Late vote for mobo discussion. Asus TUF GAMING B550-Plus here (no wifi, full ATX) zero issues with my 5800X.
Some minor hiccups while setting IF and memory OC, but that to be expected. Yes it lacks some features (like internal USB type-c header), yes there are other mobos with better features if you don't mind reliability (MSI) or BIOS quality (Gigabyte) but so far this one just works. That's my 3rd Asus since 2500K times, all of them still working somewhere in the world


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 1, 2021)

So are a few of my old TUF Sabertooths my buddy still runs my 2600K P67 Sabertooth @4.6 24/7
unfortunately my Z97 Sabertooth MK1 has a bent pin so it’s in storage.


----------



## BMfan80 (Jan 1, 2021)

I would like some advice,please.
At the moment my Corsair 3733 ram is running at 4000 at the default 3733 timings and 1,4v.
My Fclk\Uclk is sitting at 2000mhz with an SOC voltage of 1,1mv.

I would like to know if the voltages are fine or should they be lower?
I don't want  to use stock SOC voltage because my montherboard sets it to 1,18mv.


----------



## nasky (Jan 1, 2021)

INSTG8R said:


> the SoC literally controls the RAM and Infinity fabric relations. How low are you actually trying to set it? you're trying to stay "around" 1.1 mine runs at 1.092 lowering below 1.1 would never do anything that would improve performance that is for certain,,,,


Ok buddy.


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 1, 2021)

BMfan80 said:


> I don't want to use stock SOC voltage because my montherboard sets it to 1,18mv.


My B450 Tomahawk defaults to 1.030 at 2400 MHz then at 3200 MHz 1.10, and with four slots at 3333 MHz 1.198. Can be dropped down to 1.148 stable.


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 1, 2021)

All fine as far as I’m concerned if it’s stable



nasky said:


> Ok buddy.


Well do go on and explain to me what the SoC does instead of that useless reply...


----------



## sam_86314 (Jan 1, 2021)

Went ahead and snagged the X570 TUF board, and I'm back in business!














So I guess my MSI motherboard did end up dying. My CPU, memory, GPU, PSU, and storage drives are all fine. Guess I'll be staying far away from MSI products in the future.

I'm using my Wraith Spire cooler for now. Not sure if I'll go back to the R1 because it's a huge PITA to install. Also took the time to redo my cable management using copious amounts of zip ties. It's much better now. Might share a picture in the future, I dunno.

Here's hoping this board won't also die after a year and ten months.

This whole ordeal has kind of scared me away from tweaking memory timings. Guess I'm gonna just stick to 2933MHz and whatever timings the board decides are right.

@Chloe Price Didn't you have the motherboard in your Ryzen system die a while back?

EDIT: Found out that my MSI board is still under warranty. Gonna see what I can do with that.


----------



## thesmokingman (Jan 1, 2021)

nasky said:


> Ok buddy.



Soo no clue then?


----------



## Mussels (Jan 1, 2021)

Scores lower cause its unstable and error correction is catching the errors, but wasting CPU cycles to try again


----------



## sam_86314 (Jan 2, 2021)

So I was looking into my memory timings since the board defaults are garbage (and I never learn), and I saw in AIDA64 under the XMP section a bunch of timing lists.






Out of curiosity, I entered the ones for 3200MHz, and so far no issues (gonna run MemTest86+ tonight to make sure).

Anyone know where AIDA64 is grabbing these values? I've looked in CPU-Z and even my BIOS, and they only show the 3600MHz CL18 XMP profile.

Also, has anyone else had their motherboard die (MSI or other) when they went to change memory timings, or did I just get extremely unlucky?

Also guess I'm flexing my single-rank 16GB DIMMs since apparently those are rare?


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 2, 2021)

sam_86314 said:


> So I was looking into my memory timings since the board defaults are garbage (and I never learn), and I saw in AIDA64 under the XMP section a bunch of timing lists.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I mean I guess so? it's just extended timings for the clock stepping as far as I'm concerned


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 2, 2021)

Damn that I'm too lazy to get faster RAM, this month's budget goes for GPU upgrade.. still kickin' with DDR4-2400


----------



## freeagent (Jan 2, 2021)

Hey just curious.. what would you consider to be high voltage for a 3600? Would you be ok running 1.36v or so?


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 2, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Hey just curious.. what would you consider to be high voltage for a 3600? Would you be ok running 1.36v or so?


That's kinda high AFAIK, I'd stay under 1.35V if possible. I run mine at 1.3125V with 4.3GHz.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 2, 2021)

Thanks man, I thought it was a little high too. That’s what it needs to run at 4500, so I guess I won’t run it there.


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 2, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Thanks man, I thought it was a little high too. That’s what it needs to run at 4500, so I guess I won’t run it there.


No problem. Just thinking that I have some headroom, as I haven't even tried over 4300 myself. It works fine like that but maybe I can try a bit more.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 2, 2021)

I did see temps spike into the 90s at that speed and voltage so probably not the best thing for it.


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 2, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I did see temps spike into the 90s at that speed and voltage so probably not the best thing for it.


Sounds hella high even with that Macho


----------



## freeagent (Jan 2, 2021)

Yeah that could be my paste job too.. it hit 90 in the Aida fp32 ray trace test. I’ll play with it some more in a bit, but I think that’s the end of the line. I started at 4600 and worked my way down lol. Dammit.


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 2, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Yeah that could be my paste job too.. it hit 90 in the Aida fp32 ray trace test. I’ll play with it some more in a bit, but I think that’s the end of the line. I started at 4600 and worked my way down lol. Dammit.


Well I'll report later what happens after few beers and few bios visits..


----------



## freeagent (Jan 2, 2021)

Nice man, I don't remember the last time I had a beer at 7am! Its been awhile 

Good luck to you sir! I'm about to dive back in too, after some coffee.


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 2, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Nice man, I don't remember the last time I had a beer at 7am! Its been awhile
> 
> Good luck to you sir! I'm about to dive back in too, after some coffee.


We live in different timezones but remember that I'm a +2 GMT dude


----------



## freeagent (Jan 2, 2021)

Ok I have her working now 




Doesn’t seem too bad for heat.. got my front fans at 12v


----------



## AusWolf (Jan 2, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Ok I have her working now
> 
> Doesn’t seem too bad for heat.. got my front fans at 12v


Absolutely not bad for air cooling.

A little off topic: How did you arrange the data in HWinfo into 2 columns?


----------



## freeagent (Jan 2, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> Absolutely not bad for air cooling.
> 
> A little off topic: How did you arrange the data in HWinfo into 2 columns?


See those little blue arrows at the bottom? Fucked me right up the first time I pushed one by accident. And then I did it again 5 more times before I realized what was going on. My whole screen was columns.


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 2, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Doesn’t seem too bad for heat.. got my front fans at 12v


Even thinking about that feels horrible as I can't even hear my PC. 









						AMD Ryzen 5 3600 @ 4299 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

[3lmuf7] Validated Dump by Maenad  (2021-01-02 15:25:31) - MB: MSI B450M MORTAR MAX (MS-7B89) - RAM: 16384 MB




					valid.x86.fr


----------



## freeagent (Jan 2, 2021)

Really?

Oh yeah you would hate this thing for sure.. I don't always run it loud, but sometimes you gotta move some air 

Hey you did it! 

Nice one man, you are awesome


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 2, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Really?
> 
> Oh yeah you would hate this thing for sure.. I don't always run it loud, but sometimes you gotta move some air


My PC is hella silent, it just has a little humming on 2d usage and well, when I play games I use headphones. It gets noisier but doesn't disturb me over headphones.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 2, 2021)

Im not sure how loud mine is.. about as loud as 2 or 3 TY143s I guess


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 2, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Im not sure how loud mine is.. about as loud as 2 or 3 TY143s I guess


Even if I pause Spotify, it's totally silent. I I wouldn't have these LED strips, I could sleep with PC on as it doesn't disturb me by noise..

Pic of my box:


----------



## freeagent (Jan 2, 2021)

That little thing is pretty sweet man! And it packs a punch..

This one is mine.. There is a TY-147B under the two front 120s. The fronts are back to 7v, nice and quiet 





Edit:

Just running the Royals right now, black and whites are in the box..


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 2, 2021)

freeagent said:


> That little thing is pretty sweet man! And it packs a punch..
> 
> This one is mine.. There is a TY-147B under the two front 120s. The fronts are back to 7v, nice and quiet
> 
> ...


Thanks! This is actually my first mATX gaming box ever as my previous ones have been just some budget gamers' wet dreams


----------



## AusWolf (Jan 2, 2021)

Chloe Price said:


> Thanks! This is actually my first mATX gaming box ever as my previous ones have been just some budget gamers' wet dreams


mATX is the best form factor ever.  Not too small to make work uncomfortable, but not too big to have too much unused space in your case. I like small PCs, but after many years of struggle with mITX, it's refreshing to be able to fit my hand into where it's needed.

Here's my darling, sitting quietly as I type this comment (I'm a silence freak):


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 2, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> mATX is the best form factor ever.  Not too small to make work uncomfortable, but not too big to have too much unused space in your case. I like small PCs, but after many years of struggle with mITX, it's refreshing to be able to fit my hand into where it's needed.
> 
> Here's my darling, sitting quietly as I type this comment (I'm a silence freak):
> View attachment 182040


Tho too small for my customloop parts.


----------



## AusWolf (Jan 2, 2021)

Chloe Price said:


> Tho too small for my customloop parts.


Fair enough. I'm too scared to build a custom loop. Maybe one day.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 2, 2021)

I've got a Define C mini that I bought used a couple of years ago.. It wasn't actually used though. I bought it by mistake thinking it was ATX. There was a bit of a language barrier, as he was a new comer.. I would have felt bad for turning him away so I just bought it thinking I would use it. Still collecting dust! But with the right parts and some good fans that would be a little beast.


----------



## AusWolf (Jan 2, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I've got a Define C mini that I bought used a couple of years ago.. It wasn't actually used though. I bought it by mistake thinking it was ATX. There was a bit of a language barrier, as he was a new comer.. I would have felt bad for turning him away so I just bought it thinking I would use it. Still collecting dust! But with the right parts and some good fans that would be a little beast.


That's a solid little case. I would offer to take it off of you, only if I weren't so happy with my Aero One Mini.


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 2, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I've got a Define C mini that I bought used a couple of years ago.. It wasn't actually used though. I bought it by mistake thinking it was ATX. There was a bit of a language barrier, as he was a new comer.. I would have felt bad for turning him away so I just bought it thinking I would use it. Still collecting dust! But with the right parts and some good fans that would be a little beast.


I guess my friend made the same mistake as I bought this Mini C from him. Otherwise this was like new tho the window had few scratches but that isn't the end of the world for me.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 2, 2021)

Yeah it was a bit of an oops.. I put it up a couple of times locally, but low ballers are everywhere.. I paid 80 for it, listed it for 60, and had offers of 40-50. I modified it’s too cover to fit on my Meshify, works great! I also have the top covers from my R4 in the Meshify so it’s not as loud as it could be


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 2, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Yeah it was a bit of an oops.. I put it up a couple of times locally, but low ballers are everywhere.. I paid 80 for it, listed it for 60, and had offers of 40-50. I modified it’s too cover to fit on my Meshify, works great! I also have the top covers from my R4 in the Meshify so it’s not as loud as it could be


I kinda paid 60EUR for this... I paid 70EUR for my friend as I was supposed to get his GTX 970 but he didn't have money for a new GPU as he spent that for his dad's birthday present, so we made a deal for this case and he gave me a pack of cigarettes too.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 2, 2021)

Good score! I used to smoke Players. Now I vape but I still hit the pipe quite often. No drinks, just the one vice.. two I guess.


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 2, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Good score! I used to smoke Players. Now I vape but I still hit the pipe quite often. No drinks, just the one vice.. two I guess.


I roll and smoke blue West, I should quit. I don't give a fuck about the health problems but tobacco is hella expensive..

But on topic, I'll boot and try 4.4GHz 

Let's hope that this is stable 









						AMD Ryzen 5 3600 @ 4402.12 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

[yb0t4j] Validated Dump by Maenad  (2021-01-02 18:10:22) - MB: MSI B450M MORTAR MAX (MS-7B89) - RAM: 16384 MB




					valid.x86.fr


----------



## thesmokingman (Jan 2, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Hey just curious.. what would you consider to be high voltage for a 3600? Would you be ok running 1.36v or so?


You cannot derive at a safe voltage by picking an assumed value. If you really want to know, it depends on the clocks vs load. You can google PBO fit voltage test to read up on it, but essentially you set up PBO to hit the clockspeed you are aiming for and let it do its thing. Then note the average voltage it uses which will be your safe max voltage for that "particular" load. Now this will still be short a few hundred mhz if you are aiming for a high all core so keep that in mind.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 2, 2021)

Letting it do its own thing is fine.. it runs perfectly well. But I meant for all core. I saw 1.35 was ok, then 1.325 is ok, but then no its not it will degrade with that much. Other guys are like nahh if you can keep it cool 1.4++ lol. Doesn't help that looking at stock clocks and volts the board will give 1.5v. I think up to 1.35v on all core manual clocking is all my cooling will take, temps get up there under certain loads.. I will mess with single core stuff as winter progresses.


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 2, 2021)

Quick question, anyone know why the Hardware reserved Memory in Task Manager jumps from 51 MB to 78 MB after applying the latest BIOS update? Is it memory allocated to the PSP (ARM Core?) 





						MSI  Global - The Leading Brand in High-end Gaming & Professional Creation
					

As a world leading gaming brand, MSI is the most trusted name in gaming and eSports. We stand by our principles of breakthroughs in design, and roll out the amazing gaming gear like motherboards, graphics cards, laptops and desktops.




					www.msi.com


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 2, 2021)

For now 4.4 seems fine... Iets have few more games CSGO as it usually crashes if I have stability issues.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 2, 2021)

Disabling PBO and no oc, just stock was the best thing I ever did for my 5600x, temps dropped 10 celsius and I haven't had a single issue nor frame rate drop in the games I play change.  

but once new BIOS and new chipset/radeon drivers arrive over the next few months, I probably will give it another shot, but I am waiting for a WHQL of all 3 being new before I attempt again


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 2, 2021)

Chloe Price said:


> Tho too small for my customloop parts.


I have a 5950x cooled by a 53mm HWLABS Nemesis rad with 4XNF A12x25 fans and a D5 pump in a 13.5L mini ITX case.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 3, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Hey just curious.. what would you consider to be high voltage for a 3600? Would you be ok running 1.36v or so?



static voltage? no. Pretty sure i saw degradation on my 3700x from a 1.3v OC


----------



## GuitarHome (Jan 6, 2021)

Hello, I have a Ryzen 5800x and I am having the same diagnosis on HWInfo. However my PC does not lock up, does not shut down and I feel like it is normal. Do I have to worry? What can I do? I'm running the ram at 3800mhz 1: 1 as I used it on the 3700x before.

Thanks


----------



## Mussels (Jan 6, 2021)

GuitarHome said:


> Hello, I have a Ryzen 5800x and I am having the same diagnosis on HWInfo. However my PC does not lock up, does not shut down and I feel like it is normal. Do I have to worry? What can I do? I'm running the ram at 3800mhz 1: 1 as I used it on the 3700x before.
> 
> Thanks



same diagnosis as what? you may have forgotten to quote a post


----------



## GuitarHome (Jan 6, 2021)

Mussels said:


> same diagnosis as what? you may have forgotten to quote a post




This error appears in HWInfo 64 and increases with time while I'm playing. My computer never shut down for that reason, it never crashed and looks 100% nonetheless. I have a R7 5800x in the beta bios of the Gigabyte F60c and I have my memories at 3800mhz and 1900 in the Infinity Fabric. But as I said I realized this error today and I never had stability problems when using a computer on a daily basis. Should I worry about something?


----------



## Mussels (Jan 6, 2021)

Ah, WHEA errors

3800/1900 is your issue, zen 3 just isn't stable there without the new AGESA updates that havent been released yet - drop to 3600/1800 and you should be fine


----------



## GuitarHome (Jan 6, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Ah, WHEA errors
> 
> 3800/1900 is your issue, zen 3 just isn't stable there without the new AGESA updates that havent been released yet - drop to 3600/1800 and you should be fine


As I usually use the PC to play games, I like to leave it at 3800mhz because I have a 240hz monitor and I get 1% lower with this ram configuration. I saw people who even at 3600mhz got this error, and only stopped having it at 3200mhz. From what I saw, the problem is with the IF and not with the memory. A user said that with 4400mhz on the ram but an IF below 1600 he no longer had this error. As I said, I don't notice any strange behavior on the computer and the performance is very good. I never had any stability issues for that. If I leave it that way and ignore the mistakes, can I be missing something or have a problem in the future? Thanks again and I'm sorry for the English, I'm from Brazil lol !!


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 6, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Letting it do its own thing is fine.. it runs perfectly well. But I meant for all core. I saw 1.35 was ok, then 1.325 is ok, but then no its not it will degrade with that much. Other guys are like nahh if you can keep it cool 1.4++ lol. Doesn't help that looking at stock clocks and volts the board will give 1.5v. I think up to 1.35v on all core manual clocking is all my cooling will take, temps get up there under certain loads.. I will mess with single core stuff as winter progresses.



Even all-core isn't black and white...AVX, non-AVX, hell even your average memory stability test runs "all-core" 100% usage yet you'll never see those all-core clocks anywhere else, ever. Yeah, stock all-core draws 1.35V, but you'll never see over 1.3V for heavy all-core AVX.

As for 1.5V at stock, there's 18 months worth of explanations about why Ryzen does this and why it's not bonkers for doing so, not worth going into this for the trillionth time

1.325V was the initial expert suggestion as to a safe limit, then some people found out the hard way that it's best to stay out of all-core OC altogether and not assign arbitrary "safe" limits if one cares at all about longevity. If you don't care at all, by all means OC the shit outta that chip


----------



## freeagent (Jan 6, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Even all-core isn't black and white...AVX, non-AVX, hell even your average memory stability test runs "all-core" 100% usage yet you'll never see those all-core clocks anywhere else, ever. Yeah, stock all-core draws 1.35V, but you'll never see over 1.3V for heavy all-core AVX.
> 
> As for 1.5V at stock, there's 18 months worth of explanations about why Ryzen does this and why it's not bonkers for doing so, not worth going into this for the trillionth time
> 
> 1.325V was the initial expert suggestion as to a safe limit, then some people found out the hard way that it's best to stay out of all-core OC altogether and not assign arbitrary "safe" limits if one cares at all about longevity. If you don't care at all, by all means OC the shit outta that chip


I hear you man. I backed it down to stock clocks.. sigh. I didn't know about these things burning out.. Had I known that.. I probably would have stuck with the other team. Dammit. I would hate to kill good hardware. Well maybe this isn't for me after all. I don't want a dell, I want something I can overclock, and not worry about whether or not the CPU can handle it. I used to overclock until the temps got up there and then would stop. But if that isn't safe anymore.. boooo. No point in running this for much longer then. I guess I will list it locally and see what happens. If no one takes it not a huge deal, I still like it.. I just want to overclock. My max AVX temp at 4500 was 85c. A bit up there, but still under 90. I thought she was good. Seemed like it.


----------



## kapone32 (Jan 6, 2021)

There is nothing wrong with OC on Ryzen CPUs. What is true about Ryzen though is each generation is vastly different in terms of "happy" voltages. Let's use the 6 core as an example. The 1600 had a 3.9 GHZ boost clock and would be at 1.32 to 1.4 to get that stable at maybe 4 GHZ on all cores. The 2600 had a 4.0 boost clock and would need 1.2 to 1.3 volts to get that stable at 4.2 GHZ which is the limit on those. The 3600 has a 4.2 GHZ boost clock and you can get 4.3 to 4.4 at 1.25 to 1.37 volts. The 5600x will run at 4.7 GHZ all cores but the best scenario is to leave the voltage on auto.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 6, 2021)

Ok I see what you are saying. I was running 4500 at 1.331, seems pretty decent. I can run 4400 at 1.2675 I believe. 4600 isn’t happening in a stable fashion, I gave up at 1.37. 4500 is good, but if I cant run that might as well leave it at stock.


----------



## kapone32 (Jan 6, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Ok I see what you are saying. I was running 4500 at 1.331, seems pretty decent. I can run 4400 at 1.2675 I believe. 4600 isn’t happening in a stable fashion, I gave up at 1.37. 4500 is good, but if I cant run that might as well leave it at stock.


i use Ryzen Master I set the profile to run at 4.7 GHZ across all cores and left the voltage on auto. In HWinfo64 I see .998 to 1.38 Voltage.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 6, 2021)

I just went in the bios and at multi to x45 ccx voltage to 1.331 and the other core voltage to match. I don’t like to overclock in windows. I feel like a dinosaur lol


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 7, 2021)

I got the key to get in the club now.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 7, 2021)

Now we just need to talk about that dell keyboard...


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 7, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Now we just need to talk about that dell keyboard...


Hey I like my dell keyboard. It was free


----------



## Mussels (Jan 7, 2021)

Best advice: slap that +200Mhz on in the PBO settings, sit back and relax. i'm Mclovin the minimum FPS upgrade i got from 3700x to 5800x, you're likely to see a similar jump

(and then i got the 3090 and its just been balls to the wall giggling ever since)


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 7, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Best advice: slap that +200Mhz on in the PBO settings, sit back and relax. i'm Mclovin the minimum FPS upgrade i got from 3700x to 5800x, you're likely to see a similar jump
> 
> (and then i got the 3090 and its just been balls to the wall giggling ever since)


Previous CPU was a 3600 @4.1GHz so much upgrade


----------



## Mussels (Jan 7, 2021)

Just  got the new AGESA on my board as a beta, installation time!

CPU is not boosting as hard single threaded despite + 200 being on
this was previously all 5050






edit: after playing CP2077






so it's different, but might be more balanced?


----------



## AusWolf (Jan 7, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I hear you man. I backed it down to stock clocks.. sigh. I didn't know about these things burning out.. Had I known that.. I probably would have stuck with the other team. Dammit. I would hate to kill good hardware. Well maybe this isn't for me after all. I don't want a dell, I want something I can overclock, and not worry about whether or not the CPU can handle it. I used to overclock until the temps got up there and then would stop. But if that isn't safe anymore.. boooo. No point in running this for much longer then. I guess I will list it locally and see what happens. If no one takes it not a huge deal, I still like it.. I just want to overclock. My max AVX temp at 4500 was 85c. A bit up there, but still under 90. I thought she was good. Seemed like it.


I understand why you and a lot of other people like overclocking, but I think modern CPUs and GPUs are so close to their limits by factory settings that overclocking only brings extremely minimal, often unnoticeable benefits nowadays.

My 5950X has its all-core frequencies hover around 3.8-3.9 GHz and a single core turbo between 4.6-5.05 GHz (depending on the core that gets the load), and its temperature sits at a comfortable 65-67 C in both cases with my H100i Platinum. I could probably get a stable overclock of around 4.2-4.4 GHz (with a lot more heat), but that's not much higher than the factory all-core clocks, and a lot lower than the stock single-threaded boost clock. Anno 2021, I'd much rather stick to faster single-threaded speeds than have an imperceptible increase with all cores - a scenario that I barely ever need just yet.

As for "the other team": the 10900K can't even maintain its factory boost frequencies with reasonable power consumption. At least Ryzen CPUs can deliver what's promised on the box.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 7, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> I understand why you and a lot of other people like overclocking, but I think modern CPUs and GPUs are so close to their limits by factory settings that overclocking only brings extremely minimal, often unnoticeable benefits nowadays.
> 
> My 5950X has its all-core frequencies hover around 3.8-3.9 GHz and a single core turbo between 4.6-5.05 GHz (depending on the core that gets the load), and its temperature sits at a comfortable 65-67 C in both cases with my H100i Platinum. I could probably get a stable overclock of around 4.2-4.4 GHz (with a lot more heat), but that's not much higher than the factory all-core clocks, and a lot lower than the stock single-threaded boost clock. Anno 2021, I'd much rather stick to faster single-threaded speeds than have an imperceptible increase with all cores - a scenario that I barely ever need just yet.
> 
> As for "the other team": the 10900K can't even maintain its factory boost frequencies with reasonable power consumption. At least Ryzen CPUs can deliver what's promised on the box.


Heheh yeah I saw that too about their boosting. I’m not heart broken about it. The only point to that all core oc was so it didn’t drop clocks under a speed I had stuck in my head. The reality is all cores still hit 4500-4600, just not all at the same time. Intel taught me how to be a control freak in that regard. I will stay the course because I really want a Vermeer lol. The positive to all of this was I am a lot more proficient at memory clocking now compared to when I was an Intel user.. but I still don’t know what the **** I’m doing 

Mine still boosts just fine, I just wanted it to stay put when temps get a bit higher.. but still a satisfied customer. I don't think I can do much more with my sticks. Lowest I got was 62ns I believe, but not with my current config.. which is good for 68ns I think. I don't want to play too hard with timings because she's been getting a little grumpy lately. I know TRC and TRFC are a bit high. Best to just leave her alone. I will probably never be happy with latency.. considering I was able to get down to the mid 30s with my 3770K.

I don't have chipset drivers installed with this windows install, I think that's why my cores and volts wont drop all the way. This is au natural.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 7, 2021)

Wife joining too


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 7, 2021)

@freeagent primaries look okay but tRFC is way too high. Primaries aren't the only deciding factor in performance, tRFC is the other 50% of the equation. At 3600 needs to be around 250-325. With an Auto tRFC of 630 you may as well just be running 3600CL16.

Just keep in mind that lower tRFC also can demand more voltage, but B-die can take up to 1.5V daily as long as you keep it cool.

It's more than just being "happy" with the highly questionable ns figure in AIDA. Ryzen hinges on getting as much performance as possible to compensate for it not being a monolithic design. Diminishing returns after a certain point, but stuff like a 350ns tRFC just defeats the purpose of the other stuff you've done.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 7, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> @freeagent primaries look okay but tRFC is way too high. Primaries aren't the only deciding factor in performance, tRFC is the other 50% of the equation. At 3600 needs to be around 250-325. With an Auto tRFC of 630 you may as well just be running 3600CL16.
> 
> Just keep in mind that lower tRFC also can demand more voltage, but B-die can take up to 1.5V daily as long as you keep it cool.


Thanks man. I was running it at 285 and all was well. Yesterday my board shit itself probably because of something I did and I had a hard time keeping it together, even with just 2 sticks. Ill go back in and play later. I know I didn't want to show that picture lol because of that.. its still fast af


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 7, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Thanks man. I was running it at 285 and all was well. Yesterday my board shit itself probably because of something I did and I had a hard time keeping it together, even with just 2 sticks. Ill go back in and play later. I know I didn't want to show that picture lol because of that.. its still fast af



Have you stability tested yet? I imagine the Royals you have are on the better side of B-die quality so probably around 1.4V for 3600/14, but you do have 4 sticks so maybe a lil extra. 

Just don't put off the testing for too long, the errors really start to show in chkdsk and /sfc if you run an unstable config for long term


----------



## freeagent (Jan 7, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Have you stability tested yet? I imagine the Royals you have are on the better side of B-die quality so probably around 1.4V for 3600/14, but you do have 4 sticks so maybe a lil extra.
> 
> Just don't put off the testing for too long, the errors really start to show in chkdsk and /sfc if you run an unstable config for long term


I ran memtest a few times, some IBT, some math stuff, 3d stuff. No errors to report, no memory dumps, everything looks good. When its not it usually leaves something behind to let me know. I do have to say the Royals are a little more versatile then the Black and Whites, at least with tighter timings. Both sets are running 1800 14-15-15-35 1.45v. At CL16 the Royals can do 1900 with 1.4v where the B+Ws need 1.45. I know the Royals can do CL16 at 2000 with 1.4v as well, maybe its 1.45.. I didn't spend much time there. And.. I haven't run the B+Ws on their own yet, so I'm not sure what they can do.. The Royals ca do 1900 14-15-15-35 with 1.5v, the B+Ws cannot.. at least not paired up. I am just learning how to tune right now.. always chasing that latency lol. Comes at a price though occasionally. Wish this board had dual bios..


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 8, 2021)

B die can run up to 1.7v daily with good temps, 1.5v is stock voltages, people have run much higher for years.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 8, 2021)

I think I am ok with 1.5v now. It doesn't make my ram noticeably warmer then normal. I think they idle at around 25, and if I use the mem test in aida and load up all 32gb for a few hours, they load at 32c.. not bad. I am using 1.45 now running under 1900mhz. I saw gskill sells them running that high.. so why not?


----------



## harm9963 (Jan 8, 2021)

Just in time, return my 5800X for a 5950X at Micro Center ,  fortunate    live down the street, for two months, was a pest ,it was worth it !


----------



## xpg9 (Jan 8, 2021)

The Ryzen CPU's I have bought have been some the most stable CPU's and overclockable I have ever played with This one is 7 days running I usually run them 10 days before OC so we will see what the & 3700x will do 
I am a bit sketchy with a 450 board but was waiting to see what came out but gigabyte says the new Bios will run the 5000 series we shall see.


----------



## harm9963 (Jan 8, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Just  got the new AGESA on my board as a beta, installation time!
> 
> CPU is not boosting as hard single threaded despite + 200 being on
> this was previously all 5050
> ...


Did you reinstalled windows and chipset 2.09.28.509 .


----------



## kapone32 (Jan 8, 2021)

So I Installed the latest AGESA update on my X570 Pro. My 5600X is OC to 4.7 GHZ and for some reason 3DMark does not show the OC. I installed the latest chipset driver and BIOS with SAM support disabled and then re enabled.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 8, 2021)

harm9963 said:


> Did you reinstalled windows and chipset 2.09.28.509 .



oh we have to reinstall after AGESA updates? no i have not done that


----------



## harm9963 (Jan 8, 2021)

Mussels said:


> oh we have to reinstall after AGESA updates? no i have not done that


 Its a pain , refresh windows, cleans out left over stuff ,  see this with insider builds ,   and now with new BIOS features , chipsets , rather have a clean board to work with , want my 5950X at its best


----------



## Mussels (Jan 8, 2021)

I reinstalled the chipset driver now

not windows. that can stay.


----------



## AusWolf (Jan 8, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Heheh yeah I saw that too about their boosting. I’m not heart broken about it. The only point to that all core oc was so it didn’t drop clocks under a speed I had stuck in my head. The reality is all cores still hit 4500-4600, just not all at the same time. Intel taught me how to be a control freak in that regard. I will stay the course because I really want a Vermeer lol. The positive to all of this was I am a lot more proficient at memory clocking now compared to when I was an Intel user.. but I still don’t know what the **** I’m doing
> 
> Mine still boosts just fine, I just wanted it to stay put when temps get a bit higher.. but still a satisfied customer. I don't think I can do much more with my sticks. Lowest I got was 62ns I believe, but not with my current config.. which is good for 68ns I think. I don't want to play too hard with timings because she's been getting a little grumpy lately. I know TRC and TRFC are a bit high. Best to just leave her alone. I will probably never be happy with latency.. considering I was able to get down to the mid 30s with my 3770K.
> 
> *I don't have chipset drivers installed with this windows install, I think that's why my cores and volts wont drop all the way.* This is au natural.


Probably. 

I'm not exactly sure how all core OC works. With the ASUS optimizer enabled, I get all core clocks of around 4.4 GHz, but the board pumps so much voltage into the poor CPU that power consumption shoots up to 170-180 W, and temps to 90 C. That is Comet Lake territory unacceptable.  All this for a few hundred MHz all core (which I basically never use) is not worth the trouble at all.

I can imagine that some of your less used cores clock down because of insufficient voltage or TDP headroom (a wild guess).


----------



## freeagent (Jan 8, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> Probably.
> 
> I'm not exactly sure how all core OC works. With the ASUS optimizer enabled, I get all core clocks of around 4.4 GHz, but the board pumps so much voltage into the poor CPU that power consumption shoots up to 170-180 W, and temps to 90 C. That is Comet Lake territory unacceptable.  All this for a few hundred MHz all core (which I basically never use) is not worth the trouble at all.
> 
> I can imagine that some of your less used cores clock down because of insufficient voltage or TDP headroom (a wild guess).


That's ok, I think for now I have given up on an all core oc, it just doesn't seem to be worth it. Im ok with it. As for my clocks not dropping to under 1ghz, I'm pretty sure that's the chipset drivers I'm lacking. 170-180w is crazy man! My rig is sipping on 78w @ the wall right now, and loaded (minus gpu) sips on about 140w, that could change though.. It depends on what my settings are. But I think it consumes less then my 3770K for the most part, if not the whole part..

Well.. she’s running! I should probably load it up with something and see how she does. It’s still running pretty cool.. I wonder if I should turn off a fan or two..


----------



## kapone32 (Jan 8, 2021)

freeagent said:


> That's ok, I think for now I have given up on an all core oc, it just doesn't seem to be worth it. Im ok with it. As for my clocks not dropping to under 1ghz, I'm pretty sure that's the chipset drivers I'm lacking. 170-180w is crazy man! My rig is sipping on 78w @ the wall right now, and loaded (minus gpu) sips on about 140w, that could change though.. It depends on what my settings are. But I think it consumes less then my 3770K for the most part, if not the whole part..
> 
> Well.. she’s running! I should probably load it up with something and see how she does. It’s still running pretty cool.. I wonder if I should turn off a fan or two..
> 
> View attachment 183059


I think I see why you are getting high temps.. Is there a fan attached to the heatsink? Your case also does not seem to get much outside air either.


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 8, 2021)

kapone32 said:


> I think I see why you are getting high temps.. Is there a fan attached to the heatsink? Your case also does not seem to get much outside air either.


He mentioned trying out passive cooling in the show off tech purchase thread. Front of the case looks open with three fans blowing through.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 8, 2021)

It works OK I suppose.. during the all core it sat at 4350-4325. Single core ramped right up though.. Im a little curious how it would react if I turned off my front 120s and just left the rear 120 and front 140 running.



Edit:

Ran a little Real Bench too to build a little more internal heat.


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 9, 2021)

I'm happy with this.













						AMD Ryzen 5 3600 @ 4402.12 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

[1v6vwk] Validated Dump by Maenad  (2021-01-09 01:22:23) - MB: MSI B450M MORTAR MAX (MS-7B89) - RAM: 16384 MB




					valid.x86.fr
				




Stability? Testing it atm, as I use my PC most for gaming, what's the best way to test stability than... gaming?


----------



## freeagent (Jan 9, 2021)

Chloe Price said:


> I'm happy with this.
> 
> View attachment 183114
> 
> ...


Awesome man! Just gotta give it the beans sometimes 

I've been playing around a little bit too, mostly with no CPU fan and low speed case fans.. except my TY because its not too loud.. This is pretty much the speed I ran my 3770K at with this cooler and no fan, with roughly the same temperature. At 4500 on the i7 it would hit the mid 80s.


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 9, 2021)




----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 9, 2021)

INSTG8R said:


> View attachment 183135




 what are your settings at for the CPU to be stable at 5.1???? wow


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 9, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> what are your settings at for the CPU to be stable at 5.1???? wow


No chance all cores are cruising along at 5.1 GHz loaded. I would expect short bursts to 5.1.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 9, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> No chance all cores are cruising along at 5.1 GHz loaded. I would expect short bursts to 5.1.


Indeed, looking at L3 bandwidth I would say a lot of that test was run with just a few threads.

Its a fast CPU though, look at his L2 latency


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 9, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Awesome man! Just gotta give it the beans sometimes
> 
> I've been playing around a little bit too, mostly with no CPU fan and low speed case fans.. except my TY because its not too loud.. This is pretty much the speed I ran my 3770K at with this cooler and no fan, with roughly the same temperature. At 4500 on the i7 it would hit the mid 80s.
> 
> View attachment 183133


4.5 was so unstable that even opening cpuz crashed  But yeah, 4.4 feels totally stable and I'll drop the vcore every boot step by step to find the optimal minimum stable vcore. I could try 4425, 4450 or 4475 tho also.. why not when I get 4400 truly stable at minimal voltage.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 9, 2021)

Chloe Price said:


> 4.5 was so unstable that even opening cpuz crashed  But yeah, 4.4 feels totally stable and I'll drop the vcore every boot step by step to find the optimal minimum stable vcore. I could try 4425, 4450 or 4475 tho also.. why not when I get 4400 truly stable at minimal voltage.


For sure man, why not? I feel 4500 is on the edge for mine too, but I'm still not entirely sure what the max voltage I should use is, other than 1.3375 is about all I'm willing to feed as core temps can approach 80-85c on certain loads. Other than that it runs fine.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 9, 2021)

This isn't the same as what i got where all cores would bouce over 5050, but its close enough i dont care 






I wonder if its changes to the various settings in the BIOS, like running a negative offset curve (i've got it at -5 all core) has changed how they boost now


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 9, 2021)

Mussels said:


> This isn't the same as what i got where all cores would bouce over 5050, but its close enough i dont care
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Curious as to see what sort of Core Clocks you're seeing with Snapshot Polling enabled in settings, and under Discrete Clocks. My 4650G is pretty accurate but my 3700X is way off between the "Core Clock" AMD likes to advertise and what's actually going on in those cores. Wanting to see if I can expect any improvements in silicon honesty  when my 5000 chip finally shows up


----------



## Mussels (Jan 9, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Curious as to see what sort of Core Clocks you're seeing with Snapshot Polling enabled in settings, and under Discrete Clocks. My 4650G is pretty accurate but my 3700X is way off between the "Core Clock" AMD likes to advertise and what's actually going on in those cores. Wanting to see if I can expect any improvements in silicon honesty  when my 5000 chip finally shows up



wheres this snapshot setting hiding?


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 9, 2021)

Mussels said:


> wheres this snapshot setting hiding?



first page in the program-wide settings menu, you have to right click the tray icon


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 9, 2021)

Mussels said:


> wheres this snapshot setting hiding?


Launch, and check Summary-only




Right click tray icon for Settings


----------



## AusWolf (Jan 9, 2021)

freeagent said:


> That's ok, I think for now I have given up on an all core oc, it just doesn't seem to be worth it. Im ok with it. As for my clocks not dropping to under 1ghz, I'm pretty sure that's the chipset drivers I'm lacking. *170-180w is crazy man!* My rig is sipping on 78w @ the wall right now, and loaded (minus gpu) sips on about 140w, that could change though.. It depends on what my settings are. But I think it consumes less then my 3770K for the most part, if not the whole part..
> 
> Well.. she’s running! I should probably load it up with something and see how she does. It’s still running pretty cool.. I wonder if I should turn off a fan or two..


Nah, that's just the ASUS Optimizer kicking in.  With it disabled, and letting PBO do its thing with everything on Auto, it never exceeds 130 W (CPU PPT), and the H100i Platinum keeps it around 65-67 C. With an all-core clock of 3.8-3.9 GHz (which as I said, I never use just yet), and single core clocks varying between 4.6-4.9 GHz with occasional jumps to 5 GHz, I couldn't be happier.

Nice clean setup, btw. I just wonder how much air gets through the front panel.


----------



## harm9963 (Jan 9, 2021)

New Asus X470 Prime Pro - beta BIOS. 5821


----------



## freeagent (Jan 9, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> Nah, that's just the ASUS Optimizer kicking in.  With it disabled, and letting PBO do its thing with everything on Auto, it never exceeds 130 W (CPU PPT), and the H100i Platinum keeps it around 65-67 C. With an all-core clock of 3.8-3.9 GHz (which as I said, I never use just yet), and single core clocks varying between 4.6-4.9 GHz with occasional jumps to 5 GHz, I couldn't be happier.
> 
> Nice clean setup, btw. I just wonder how much air gets through the front panel.


Thanks man, I appreciate it. Lots of air is going through the front! Though my fans are running at 7v.. a lot more moves at 12v


----------



## AusWolf (Jan 9, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Thanks man, I appreciate it. Lots of air is going through the front! Though my fans are running at 7v.. a lot more moves at 12v


Oh, so you have nothing in front of the fans! I thought you had a solid glass panel there. 

I also see you use no dust filters, just like myself on my Aero One Mini.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 9, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> Oh, so you have nothing in front of the fans! I thought you had a solid glass panel there.
> 
> I also see you use no dust filters, just like myself on my Aero One Mini.


No need for filters, they just get in the way.. so does the mesh   

I also have a Metro Data Vac, and I'm not afraid to use it


----------



## harm9963 (Jan 9, 2021)

About the same score ,   but a whole lot cooler and less power  
210 watts vs 265 watts and 87c vs 75 c 
New BIOS 5821 BETA , windows and chipset reinstalled !


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 9, 2021)

Such a beautiful sight


----------



## freeagent (Jan 9, 2021)

A little jelly here..


----------



## kapone32 (Jan 9, 2021)

freeagent said:


> It works OK I suppose.. during the all core it sat at 4350-4325. Single core ramped right up though.. Im a little curious how it would react if I turned off my front 120s and just left the rear 120 and front 140 running.
> 
> View attachment 183068
> 
> ...





biffzinker said:


> He mentioned trying out passive cooling in the show off tech purchase thread. Front of the case looks open with three fans blowing through.


I remember installing a CPU and I finished the build but for got to attach the CPU fan on the heatsink. I remember thinking the heatsink was garbage as my CPU temp was 77 C. As soon as I put a fan on it fell to 35 C.


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 9, 2021)

freeagent said:


> A little jelly here..


If you ask nicely he might sell you his 5600X.


----------



## AusWolf (Jan 9, 2021)

harm9963 said:


> About the same score ,   but a whole lot cooler and less power
> 210 watts vs 265 watts and 87c vs 75 c
> New BIOS 5821 BETA , windows and chipset reinstalled !


That's some awesome cooling you've got there. My 5950X would be toast with 210 Watts.


----------



## harm9963 (Jan 9, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> That's some awesome cooling you've got there. My 5950X would be toast with 210 Watts.


ppt 200  tdc 200  edc 130 / -30  use AMD OC menu , not PBO


----------



## djisas (Jan 10, 2021)

This might've been answered before, but here it goes.
People with Taichi X570, is the bios 3.8 worth it, I'm running 3.61.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 10, 2021)

Did a test bench to update BIOs for the 5800X. Going to do some OCing to see what I can get


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 10, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> Going to do some OCing to see what I can get


Are you going to try out ClockTuner 2.0 when it’s released?









						ClockTuner for Ryzen to be Overhauled and Updated (CTR v2.0)
					

We've written a lot about this software, and it's been a popular tool ever since the beginning. Yuri emailed us this morning with a bit of a teaser presentation for the soon to be released CTR vers...




					www.guru3d.com


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 10, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> Are you going to try out ClockTuner 2.0 when it’s released?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Never even heard of it. Haven’t had a PC in awhile. My last rig was a 3600X but that was over a year ago.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 10, 2021)

kapone32 said:


> I remember installing a CPU and I finished the build but for got to attach the CPU fan on the heatsink. I remember thinking the heatsink was garbage as my CPU temp was 77 C. As soon as I put a fan on it fell to 35 C.


Nice. I did that with my X5690 and True Spirit 140 Power. I ran it for a couple of hours with no fan on it. It was @ stock and was wondering why it was a little warmer.. whoops..

But with this setup it seems I can run @ stock + PBO or 4400 all core with no fan on it. On heavy stuff with no oc it would run at 4300 all core, and light stuff would boost to just over 4600 on 3 cores.. I did end up putting my fan back on.. but I will probably try again this summer out of curiosity.

I am a huge Thermalright fanboy.. I feel kind of bad about it but they make good stuff and no one knows about them.


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 10, 2021)

freeagent said:


> they make good stuff and no one knows about them.


Their pretty well known from the past with the all copper heatsinks. The 80mm Delta screamer I can do without though.


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 10, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> No chance all cores are cruising along at 5.1 GHz loaded. I would expect short bursts to 5.1.


Nah it hit's around 4925-75 all core under regular loads I am definitely seeing higher temps than I'm used to compared to my 3700X but I'm also seeing higher voltages as well just using the Curve Optimizer. Actually my only real oddity is despite it having a 3700 base clock is actually idles at 3600(not complaining means it's very cool idle)


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 10, 2021)

Windows 10 sees my 3800X with a idle clockspeed of 4275/4300 even though the cores drop into a deep sleep state in HWinfo.


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 10, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> Windows 10 sees my 3800X with a idle clockspeed of 4275/4300 even though the cores drop into a deep sleep state in HWinfo.


well voltage wise it's under 1.0V so regardless it's definitely "idling" just lower than it's supposed too. Not complaining I'll take 100Mhz hit if it's "chilling"


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 10, 2021)

x570 tomahawk owner here and ryzen 5600x

 for cpu I settled for PBO enhanced mode 3. I tried all 4 enhanced modes of PBO in cinebench and my best scores for multi and single were both in Enhanced Mode 3. temp were great never broke 62 celsius.  618 in r20 single core, and 4200ish in multi r20.  i don't know why, but this new BIOS dropped temps across the board on my x570 tomhawk, this same enhanced mode was getting around 7 celsius higher, other oc's i tried similar. the latest bios reduced temps for me, not sure if just a weird fluke or what, but im happy about it. can't believe how cold this setup runs on a tiny little arctic e34 duo (to be fair i use a very very strong fan curve) lol


----------



## AusWolf (Jan 10, 2021)

harm9963 said:


> ppt 200  tdc 200  edc 130 / -30  use AMD OC menu , not PBO


So far I'm happy with PBO to be honest. 130 W and 65 C are values I can live with. 



biffzinker said:


> Windows 10 sees my 3800X with a idle clockspeed of 4275/4300 even though the cores drop into a deep sleep state in HWinfo.


That's because you use the Balanced, or High Performance power modes in Windows. Try Balanced with the Power Mode slider dragged down to Best Energy Savings.  You will still see a 3 GHz idle in Task Manager, but at least your power consumption will be in control.

Edit: With Ryzen 3000, it might be worth installing the latest chipset driver and choosing a Ryzen optimised power plan.


----------



## harm9963 (Jan 10, 2021)

Got it down 195watts and 73c,  195 195 125 -30 , still work InProgress , only second day with new BIOS .


----------



## chevy350 (Jan 10, 2021)

djisas said:


> This might've been answered before, but here it goes.
> People with Taichi X570, is the bios 3.8 worth it, I'm running 3.61.


no issues on 3.80 for me, tried 3.91 and had some memory issues so rolled back for now


----------



## djisas (Jan 10, 2021)

chevy350 said:


> no issues on 3.80 for me, tried 3.91 and had some memory issues so rolled back for now



3.61 finally let me run 3600 Cl16, need to work on the timings though...


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 10, 2021)

It’s finally alive


----------



## harm9963 (Jan 11, 2021)

Ten min throttle test


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 11, 2021)

harm9963 said:


> Ten min throttle test


Temperatures were under 80C yet it still throttled? Is the VRM overheating?


----------



## harm9963 (Jan 11, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> Temperatures were under 80C yet it still throttled? Is the VRM overheating?


Under 40c ,G-SKILL TRIENT Z , B-die , have a G-SKILL fan on top RAM , once over 75c ,it pop up ,  need to try ,and raises thermal limit in BIOS.


----------



## Calmmo (Jan 11, 2021)

Some... interesting numbers, easy to see how the 5900x is the least.. available of the entire 5000 lineup. (it was my experience too looking for one for several weeks)


----------



## freeagent (Jan 11, 2021)

Has anyone used the memory test in Aida64?

What do you think?


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 11, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Has anyone used the memory test in Aida64?
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> View attachment 183537



I only use the memory benchmark in aida64 to test ram latency.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 11, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I only use the memory benchmark in aida64 to test ram latency.


Indeed, I like it for that. I haven't actually used it for testing memory. Not sure how good it works for that. I backed it down anyways.. I feel better feeding 1.45v instead of 1.5v. No need to get crazy 

I did shoot for 2000 1:1:1 a few times.. it didn't appreciate that..


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 11, 2021)

So I been playing with my 5800X and set PBO and Curve Optimizer. I'm now seeing 5GHz Boost across cores on my CPU

Anybody here have a 5800X i can compare test results too


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 11, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> So I been playing with my 5800X and set PBO and Curve Optimizer. I'm now seeing 5GHz Boost across cores on my CPU
> 
> Anybody here have a 5800X i can compare test results too



whats your cinebench r20 single and multi scores?


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 11, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> whats your cinebench r20 single and multi scores?


I'll post them once i get back home


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 11, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> Anybody here have a 5800X i can compare test results too


@Mussels has one.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 11, 2021)

Has anyone else hit a pciex device limit using the am4 platform, my systems listed but essentially a 3800X on a crosshair7 with a gpu and 3 nvme drives, if i add one more pciex device, nvme or gpu it has a no boot looping fit.
seems like a 4 device limit?.


----------



## djisas (Jan 11, 2021)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Has anyone else hit a pciex device limit using the am4 platform, my systems listed but essentially a 3800X on a crosshair7 with a gpu and 3 nvme drives, if i add one more pciex device, nvme or gpu it has a no boot looping fit.
> seems like a 4 device limit?.



I have 2 nvme and a sound card, no issue...


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 11, 2021)

djisas said:


> I have 2 nvme and a sound card, no issue...


So that would be four, same as me , I can do four it's the fifth.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 11, 2021)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> So that would be four, same as me , I can do four it's the fifth.



Which slot is the one having trouble (5th device)?

C7H is a X470 board so there's a helluvalot of wack bandwidth sharing going on. 3.0x8 GPU, 3.0x4 M.2_1, 3.0x4 M.2_2, 3.0x4 for the third NVMe.

Assuming that's how your 4 devices are laid out, then all of them are on the CPU's lanes, but the 5th has to go through the chipset. The 2 2.0x1 slots or the 2.0x4, all go to X470.

I think there are some PCIe devices that don't play nice with chipset lanes, could be the case here. In any case, the design as it is shouldn't be lacking enough lanes to run the devices.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 11, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Which slot is the one having trouble (5th device)?
> 
> C7H is a X470 board so there's a helluvalot of wack bandwidth sharing going on. 3.0x8 GPU, 3.0x4 M.2_1, 3.0x4 M.2_2, 3.0x4 for the third NVMe.
> 
> ...


I've tried about nine different things(a few gpu and four nvme and all worked fine if i took it out of one of the other pciex slots9ie so the total is 4)) and can use the lowest pciex that runs off the chipset, im not but anyway i cook it, it is the fifth device, ive been at this for months before posting anything.


----------



## djisas (Jan 11, 2021)

My MB tells me if I get a third nvme I lose the 5th pcie, and it's X570, you might've run into board limitations...


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 11, 2021)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> I've tried about nine different things(a few gpu and four nvme and all worked fine if i took it out of one of the other pciex slots9ie so the total is 4)) and can use the lowest pciex that runs off the chipset, im not but anyway i cook it, it is the fifth device, ive been at this for months before posting anything.


I would have suggested to take a look under Onboard Devices Config in the BIOS, but I took a look at mine to find it only really adjusts PCIe gen bandwidth.

The only other thing that I can think of is that the only block diagram for C7H that I can find seems to show 10 2.0 lanes coming off the X470 PCH when it only actually has 8, because two of the lanes appear to go to an ASMedia controller for some rear USB ports? But that would make no sense, it doesn't show a PCIe switch anywhere, and Asus would write about it if there was bandwidth sharing.

Any differences with other BIOSes?



djisas said:


> My MB tells me if I get a third nvme I lose the 5th pcie, and it's X570, you might've run into board limitations...


That makes sense for X570 if the second 4.0x4 NVMe coming off the X570 chipset is tied to a switch with the 4.0x4 x16 slot coming off the chipset, so you can only use one or the other. On the C7H, both x16/x8 slots come off the CPU, both M.2s come off the CPU, the only things coming off the chipset are the 2.0x1 slots and the remaining 2.0x4.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 11, 2021)

djisas said:


> My MB tells me if I get a third nvme I lose the 5th pcie, and it's X570, you might've run into board limitations...


I think I read it somewhere but it wasn't an official source I'm going to try some bios tweaks regarding pciex ARi settings or something like that.
One last try, probably not really tho.

I don't run Sata drives because they take pciex bandwidth and asmedia is disabled , I have run with them on and it still works but it does take bandwidth.

Oh and one nvme, unused is off the chipset on mine.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 11, 2021)

I just tried Linpack Xtreme 1.15 and it is zesty! Backed my oc down to 4.4 unless 85c is ok, and if that’s the case I’ll turn it back up


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 12, 2021)

This is what I get


----------



## Mussels (Jan 12, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> So I been playing with my 5800X and set PBO and Curve Optimizer. I'm now seeing 5GHz Boost across cores on my CPU
> 
> Anybody here have a 5800X i can compare test results too



Me. i was getting 5050 on all cores, but now they sit in the 4900-5050 range on the latest agesa

pretty sure this is with eco mode on


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 12, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Me. i was getting 5050 on all cores, but now they sit in the 4900-5050 range on the latest agesa


Have you benched it


----------



## harm9963 (Jan 12, 2021)

Here my old 5800X .


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 12, 2021)

harm9963 said:


> Here my old 5800X .


I haven’t ran R23 ywt


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 12, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> I haven’t ran R23 ywt


Looks like you'd be the first to post benchmark results for the 5800X in the Cinebench thread. There's nothing in the first post chart.








						Post your Cinebench R23 Score
					

Download Cinebench R23  Benchmarks FFXV Benchmark   Cinebench R23 "Multi" Scores are clickable, leading to the original post.  NameCPUCoreClockSingleMultiCooling mirrormaxEPYC 7742 (x2)128C/256T@ 3160 MHz 100981 cbAir nepuEPYC 770264C/128T@ 2499 MHz 48844 cbAir Bret WeeksRyzen Threadripper...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Mussels (Jan 12, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> Have you benched it



edited into the post before i saw your reply - i'm on boosted ECO mode tho


----------



## freeagent (Jan 12, 2021)

Hey guys.. noob question..

How do you change the memory controller clock on my board? I've checked everywhere in the bios and cant find it. I have my  IF clock at 1900, so my ram is at that and the memory controller is at that. But if I change ram speed to 4400 the mem controller drops down to something like 1066 from 1900. I don't recall exactly. I can find 2 out of the 3 speeds that I need to control 

I just need to fine tune that one aspect and I will be happy


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 12, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Hey guys.. noob question..
> 
> How do you change the memory controller clock on my board? I've checked everywhere in the bios and cant find it. I have my  IF clock at 1900, so my ram is at that and the memory controller is at that. But if I change ram speed to 4400 the mem controller drops down to something like 1066 from 1900. I don't recall exactly. I can find 2 out of the 3 speeds that I need to control
> 
> I just need to fine tune that one aspect and I will be happy



Should be really easy for Asus. On the main Tweaker page, should be an option for Infinity Fabric clock directly below memory speed.

Called FCLK frequency. Order on that page is like DOCP, BCLK, spread spectrum, APE, memclock, IFclock

Probably also options for dividers buried somewhere in CBS or AMD OC menus, but those are messy and why do that if its right on the tweaker page

BIOS also has a search function F6 i think


----------



## freeagent (Jan 12, 2021)

I must have my beer goggles on  On the main tweaker page I just have IF and Mem clock options. It must be buried in that mess somewhere. This bios has a few more things then my Z77 lol. I figured this would be similar to X58 to OC. Maybe instead of 1:1:1 control, maybe I only have 1:1. Its crazy that this 1600MHz ram can do 2200MHz, don't know how stable it is.. no point in running it if it performs like 1600MHz ram 

I thought 2200 16-16-16-36 would have been saweet!

Probably not stable.. back to 1900/1900


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 12, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I must have my beer goggles on  On the main tweaker page I just have IF and Mem clock options. It must be buried in that mess somewhere. This bios has a few more things then my Z77 lol. I figured this would be similar to X58 to OC. Maybe instead of 1:1:1 control, maybe I only have 1:1. Its crazy that this 1600MHz ram can do 2200MHz, don't know how stable it is.. no point in running it if it performs like 1600MHz ram
> 
> I thought 2200 16-16-16-36 would have been saweet!
> 
> Probably not stable.. back to 1900/1900



This should be it, but if (I don't recall Asus having this problem but I could be wrong) it forces non-1:1 IF to strictly 2:1 then you may have to dig into the CBS or OC menus to find the dividers section:



I needed somewhere in the ballpark of 1.8V to bench my 4400 16-16-16 1:1 result in AIDA, on my 4650G. Even with decent B-die you're probably looking at somewhere around 1.65V at the very very least.

If sticking to 1.5-1.55V max, 4000 or 4133 16-16-16 is probably a better bet for a stable daily setup, but you don't have a Renoir, so the performance just isn't there above 1900MHz IF, pretty pointless.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 12, 2021)

harm9963 said:


> Here my old 5800X .


What clocks




Mussels said:


> edited into the post before i saw your reply - i'm on boosted ECO mode tho


I see it now


----------



## thesmokingman (Jan 12, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> This is what I get


Did you note your PPT? At 6200-6300 that's like 160w in R20.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 12, 2021)

thesmokingman said:


> Did you note your PPT? At 6200-6300 that's like 160w in R20.


I did not

Hwinfo isn’t showing it for some reason


----------



## thesmokingman (Jan 12, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> I did not
> 
> Hwinfo isn’t showing it for some reason


Ofc it shows it. Look under CPU power package SMU, below CPU EDC. Stock 5800x will run up to 140w +/- giving just over 6000.


----------



## harm9963 (Jan 12, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> What clocks
> 
> 
> 
> I see it now


just PBO and  -30 .

Tweak for balance,  195 195 125 -30 /  FINAL


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 12, 2021)

thesmokingman said:


> Ofc it shows it. Look under CPU power package SMU, below CPU EDC. Stock 5800x will run up to 140w +/- giving just over 6000.


This not my first rodeo 







harm9963 said:


> just PBO and  -30 .
> 
> Tweak for balance,  195 195 125 -30 /  FINAL


I see you’re using a 5950X though which is better binnned


----------



## freeagent (Jan 12, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> This should be it, but if (I don't recall Asus having this problem but I could be wrong) it forces non-1:1 IF to strictly 2:1 then you may have to dig into the CBS or OC menus to find the dividers section:
> 
> View attachment 183658
> 
> ...


It has to be buried in either CBS or the AMD OC. Its the memory controller that I am looking for. As for the ram, I have no idea what it can do. I just set 1.5 and selected 4200 and I was in windows, saw my mem controller was way out to lunch went back in bios and selected 4400 and mem controller went up by 66hmz. I spent a little while digging around and couldn't find it, I will look again when I wake up a little more. 

And thanks!


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 12, 2021)

This is as much as I can extract but this is a all core clock of 4.8GHz 

I’m wondering what is the max safe Volts I can pump into this CPU


----------



## harm9963 (Jan 12, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> This is as much as I can extract but this is a all core clock of 4.8GHz
> 
> I’m wondering what is the max safe Volts I can pump into this CPU
> 
> View attachment 183710


Temps are missing , and watts  please


----------



## enor14 (Jan 12, 2021)

Hello everyone, as a newbie here I was wondering if I could see 5900X tweaks here?


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## thesmokingman (Jan 12, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> This not my first rodeo


But you don't know to update the app? Instead of debating, you don't wonder why you don't have that stat???


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## Durvelle27 (Jan 12, 2021)

harm9963 said:


> Temps are missing , and watts  please


I'll post more shots later


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## harm9963 (Jan 12, 2021)

enor14 said:


> Hello everyone, as a newbie here I was wondering if I could see 5900X tweaks here?


Cheer's 


http://imgur.com/a/hdElP39


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## freeagent (Jan 12, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Should be really easy for Asus. On the main Tweaker page, should be an option for Infinity Fabric clock directly below memory speed.
> 
> Called FCLK frequency. Order on that page is like DOCP, BCLK, spread spectrum, APE, memclock, IFclock
> 
> ...


Ok, so it looks like there isn't much I can do  Fclk = Mclk and there is no real way to deviate from it, unless this bios is not optimized for this CPU. If that's the case maybe I should move back to 1004, the one it shipped with. Because I don't see anything that lets me adjust Mclk, and the help mssg says Fclk = Mclk. I only see memory speed, fclk and cpu multi as things I can change that affect MHz outside of voltage and timings. Nothing with straps or Mclk. Mclk being memory controller listed in HWinfo. 

Is X570 like that? By your words it sounds like its a little more flexible. And if that's the case I should have gotten the x570 Prime pro as it was cheaper lol. FFS


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 12, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Ok, so it looks like there isn't much I can do  Fclk = Mclk and there is no real way to deviate from it, unless this bios is not optimized for this CPU. If that's the case maybe I should move back to 1004, the one it shipped with. Because I don't see anything that lets me adjust Mclk, and the help mssg says Fclk = Mclk. I only see memory speed, fclk and cpu multi as things I can change that affect MHz outside of voltage and timings. Nothing with straps or Mclk. Mclk being memory controller listed in HWinfo.
> 
> Is X570 like that? By your words it sounds like its a little more flexible. And if that's the case I should have gotten the x570 Prime pro as it was cheaper lol. FFS



I've no idea what you're getting at anymore. You can't change MCLK to whatever you want, that's your memclock. It's always half your MT/s. If you're running 3800, it's 1900, period. etc

I've not had any issues setting FCLK to whatever I want on my Asus board, independent of memclock. If it doesn't work for you, you might find a submenu relating to Infinity Fabric dividers in AMD Overclocking menu.

The help message that pops up only is a reminder that FCLK should equal MCLK for best performance. I'm not sure what you're looking for here.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 12, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I've no idea what you're getting at anymore. You can't change MCLK to whatever you want, that's your memclock. It's always half your MT/s. If you're running 3800, it's 1900, period. etc
> 
> I've not had any issues setting FCLK to whatever I want on my Asus board, independent of memclock. If it doesn't work for you, you might find a submenu relating to Infinity Fabric dividers in AMD Overclocking menu.
> 
> The help message that pops up only is a reminder that FCLK should equal MCLK for best performance. I'm not sure what you're looking for here.


OK, Im getting my terminology mixed up. Sorry about that. I can set my Fclk to 1900 Max. I can run my ram 1:1 @ 1900. But if I go faster then 1900 on the ram, the memory controller takes a dive, and I cant bring that back up to match the other two frequencies, like you could sort of do on 939 and x58. So right now for me there is no point in running my ram faster than 1900, because performance takes a bit of a dive.

What got me curious was trying to see how fast I can run my ram, but once I broke the 1:1 ratio, there was no point to running ram at high speed. I tried 2000 up to 2200 on the ram. Fclk will not run at 1933. At least not without stock voltage..


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 12, 2021)

freeagent said:


> OK, Im getting my terminology mixed up. Sorry about that. I can set my Fclk to 1900 Max. I can run my ram 1:1 @ 1900. But if I go faster then 1900 on the ram, the memory controller takes a dive, and I cant bring that back up to match the other two frequencies, like you could sort of do on 939 and x58. So right now for me there is no point in running my ram faster than 1900, because performance takes a bit of a dive.
> 
> What got me curious was trying to see how fast I can run my ram, but once I broke the 1:1 ratio, there was no point to running ram at high speed. I tried 2000 up to 2200 on the ram. Fclk will not run at 1933. At least not without stock voltage..



That's just how desktop Ryzen is. IF can't really run faster than 1900. If you're very lucky, you can do 1933 (or even 2000 now on better BIOSes for Ryzen 5000), if you're unlucky like me you can barely do 1800.

The weak link are the IF traces on the substrate from chiplet to I/O die. There is no way around this, and I'm surprised you didn't know. It isn't just your PC, there IS no point exceeding 1:1 on Ryzen for daily use.

You have to realize that IF is what's holding Ryzen back. Even the 3000 UMC can hit DDR4-5000, it's just that without IF keeping up, there's no performance benefit to be had.

If you want higher 1:1 speeds, only Renoir can do it right now. My 4650G stays 1:1 to 2200MHz IF and daily settings 2100MHz.


----------



## iambkm01 (Jan 12, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> That's just how desktop Ryzen is. IF can't really run faster than 1900. If you're very lucky, you can do 1933 (or even 2000 now on better BIOSes for Ryzen 5000), if you're unlucky like me you can barely do 1800.
> 
> The weak link are the IF traces on the substrate from chiplet to I/O die. There is no way around this, and I'm surprised you didn't know. It isn't just your PC, there IS no point exceeding 1:1 on Ryzen for daily use.
> 
> ...


Hi Sir, could you help me?

Any idea what i Should do ? I just got a brand new 5950x  + Dark Hero + 3800CL14 G Skills 4x 8gb, latest bios, tried beta and prior to that. I cant get anything to stay stable above 2133/1066 (default mode), which is pathetic. im very limited on my knowledge, been trying to fix this for 2 days now, and I cannot figure this out. I had people on reddit help me with various timings and voltage changes but nothing lasted more than 40 minutes before crashing. the 2133.1066 was capable of staying on for 24 hours straight.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 12, 2021)

iambkm01 said:


> Hi Sir, could you help me?
> 
> Any idea what i Should do ? I just got a brand new 5950x  + Dark Hero + 3800CL14 G Skills 4x 8gb, latest bios, tried beta and prior to that. I cant get anything to stay stable above 2133/1066 (default mode), which is pathetic. im very limited on my knowledge, been trying to fix this for 2 days now, and I cannot figure this out. I had people on reddit help me with various timings and voltage changes but nothing lasted more than 40 minutes before crashing. the 2133.1066 was capable of staying on for 24 hours straight.


get zentimings, post a screenshot









						ZenTimings
					

ZenTimings is a simple and lightweight app for monitoring memory timings on Ryzen platform.




					zentimings.protonrom.com


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 12, 2021)

harm9963 said:


> Temps are missing , and watts  please


Here ya go


----------



## iambkm01 (Jan 12, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> get zentimings, post a screenshot
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have a few, all these links and 2 attachment combinations failed within 30-1hr


Latest one 3 hours ago:  



http://imgur.com/yT4Gk4D


Yesterday: 



http://imgur.com/a/hRszQfr


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 12, 2021)

iambkm01 said:


> I have a few, all these links and 2 attachment combinations failed within 30-1hr
> 
> 
> Latest one 3 hours ago:
> ...



Are these all from Reddit suggestions? Sweet lord. Probably should ask r/overclocking instead of r/AMD because there are actual experienced B-die overclockers on the former, the latter is a bunch of circlejerking idiots

Try the 3600 16-16-16 profile but set SOC Voltage to 1.1V manual, DRAM voltage to 1.35V, leave everything else alone

What are you testing stability with.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 12, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> That's just how desktop Ryzen is. IF can't really run faster than 1900. If you're very lucky, you can do 1933 (or even 2000 now on better BIOSes for Ryzen 5000), if you're unlucky like me you can barely do 1800.
> 
> The weak link are the IF traces on the substrate from chiplet to I/O die. There is no way around this, and I'm surprised you didn't know. It isn't just your PC, there IS no point exceeding 1:1 on Ryzen for daily use.
> 
> ...


Thank you! Ok I’m not going crazy, I’m just at the wall. Thank you for the detailed explanation, I had pieced it together wrong information wise and thought I was missing something. Crash course in learning is the bestest


----------



## iambkm01 (Jan 12, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Are these all from Reddit suggestions? Sweet lord. Probably should ask r/overclocking instead of r/AMD because there are actual experienced B-die ppl on the former
> 
> Try the 3600 16-16-16 profile but set SOC Voltage to 1.1V manual, DRAM voltage to 1.35V, leave everything else alone


Yes, reddit /buildapc  sub. I wasnt sure where to start. Like I said I am super new at this. A few guys tried to help, no luck. Do I set it to DOCP  and then change the #'s or set itto Manual and then adjust the FCLK ?


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 12, 2021)

iambkm01 said:


> Yes, reddit /buildapc  sub. I wasnt sure where to start. Like I said I am super new at this. A few guys tried to help, no luck. Do I set it to DOCP  and then change the #'s or set itto Manual and then adjust the FCLK ?



Start from DOCP, then scroll down to cchange the two voltages


----------



## iambkm01 (Jan 12, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Start from DOCP, then scroll down to cchange the two voltages


OK so manually set it to 3600 / 1800 manually change timings to 16 16 16 36 and then do the 2 voltages ?


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 12, 2021)

iambkm01 said:


> OK so manually set it to 3600 / 1800 manually change timings to 16 16 16 36 and then do the 2 voltages ?



Yep, don't mess with anything else

this might be pretty long, might want to take this to PMs


----------



## iambkm01 (Jan 12, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Yep, don't mess with anything else
> 
> this might be pretty long, might want to take this to PMs


Ok let me do this and I will respond via PM after, with results  after i boot it up and either am stable for 30m - 1hr or crash, whichever happens first , thank you sir


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 12, 2021)

iambkm01 said:


> Ok let me do this and I will respond via PM after, with results  after i boot it up and either am stable for 30m - 1hr or crash, whichever happens first , thank you sir



Before you do that, what are you testing with? Use HCI Memtest or Testmem5


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 12, 2021)

More


----------



## iambkm01 (Jan 12, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Before you do that, what are you testing with? Use HCI Memtest or Testmem5


I've only used OCC test so far , the first one, for 1hr. However, my PC never crashed during this test, everytime i crashed/got BSOD, it was when i was using my programs , browing web, moving windows from left to the right monitors, etc.


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 12, 2021)

@Durvelle27 You can reduce the size of your screenshots by clicking the active title bar, and holding alt+prtsc. Then paste from the clipboard in MS Paint/Photo editor, and save as a jpg. Your photo's are 5/5.5MB for each.

Sample 513KB:


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 12, 2021)

iambkm01 said:


> I've only used OCC test so far , the first one, for 1hr. However, my PC never crashed during this test, everytime i crashed/got BSOD, it was when i was using my programs , browing web, moving windows from left to the right monitors, etc.



Use HCI or TM5. For HCI the free version start multiple instances of about 2-3GB until youve filled all your memory save for 1GB or so. For TM5, find the anta777 extreme .cfg, rename it to MT.cfg and replace the file by the same name in the TM5 folder.



biffzinker said:


> @Durvelle27 You can reduce the size of your screenshots by clicking the active title bar, and holding alt+prtsc. Then paste from the clipboard in MS Paint/Photo editor, and save as a jpg. Your photo's are 5/5.5MB for each.
> 
> Sample 513KB:
> View attachment 183762



damn, learn something new every day


----------



## iambkm01 (Jan 12, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Use HCI or TM5. For HCI the free version start multiple instances of about 2-3GB until youve filled all your memory save for 1GB or so. For TM5, find the anta777 extreme .cfg, rename it to MT.cfg and replace the file by the same name in the TM5 folder.
> 
> 
> 
> damn, learn something new every day


Ok thanks. let me get all of that ready. you want me to run these tests with the new timings right even tho i might crash?


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 12, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> @Durvelle27 You can reduce the size of your screenshots by clicking the active title bar, and holding alt+prtsc. Then paste from the clipboard in MS Paint/Photo editor, and save as a jpg. Your photo's are 5/5.5MB for each.
> 
> Sample 513KB:
> View attachment 183762


They are large as I’m uploading directly from my IPad and they are actual pictures and not screenshots


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 12, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> They are large as I’m uploading directly from my IPad and they are actual pictures and not screenshots


Why not just do it on the computer of the active window instead of photos/pictures? Unless you have more than one window you're trying to capture it would make loading in the web browser faster for everyone.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 12, 2021)

iambkm01 said:


> Ok thanks. let me get all of that ready. you want me to run these tests with the new timings right even tho i might crash?



Probably run TM5 for now. The anta777 config finishes in about an hour (at least for a 16GB kit). HCI takes longer.

Both are actual memory stability testers that OCers use, instead of some random CPU stress test


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 12, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> Why not just do it on the computer of the active window instead of photos/pictures? Unless you have more than one window you're trying to capture it would make loading in the web browser faster for everyone.


My desktop is not connected to the net currently and I'm in and out the house. Its quick to snap a quick pic and than leave back out


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 12, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> My desktop is not connected to the net currently and I'm in and out the house. Its quick to snap a quick pic and than leave back out


well you can change the size before you upload it as well on your iPad I do it all the time


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 12, 2021)

INSTG8R said:


> well you can change the size before you upload it as well on your iPad I do it all the time


Very true, I don't be thinking it through 

So based on my screenies what do you think


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 12, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> Very true, I don't be thinking it through
> 
> So based on my screenies what do you think



I think you've got a good chip, and I think your VSOC is typical ASRock - ie. way too high. 

Think you have to turn off something to allow manual VSOC adjustment. Could be uncore OC.


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 12, 2021)

@tabascosauz 
A few replies back you mentioned having Gear Down Mode on, and selecting 1T for 1.5T. I tried this before on the B450 Tomahawk but doing that would get me a no POST (reset CMOS.) Yesterday I looked again under DRAM Timings, I noticed there is a Gear Down Mode option in with 1T/2T, and Auto. I picked the GDM option, and it worked? Seems now the CMD rate is 1.5T I'm guessing. Latency in AIDA64 dropped a little bit from before, and bandwidth in copy is up a small amount.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 12, 2021)

Use TPU capture for screenshoits

alt-prtsc here takes the screensht of the app and gives me a forum handy link for it


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 13, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> @tabascosauz
> A few replies back you mentioned having Gear Down Mode on, and selecting 1T for 1.5T. I tried this before on the B450 Tomahawk but doing that would get me a no POST (reset CMOS.) Yesterday I looked again under DRAM Timings, I noticed there is a Gear Down Mode option in with 1T/2T, and Auto. I picked the GDM option, and it worked? Seems now the CMD rate is 1.5T I'm guessing. Latency in AIDA64 dropped a little bit from before, and bandwidth in copy is up a small amount.
> 
> View attachment 183781



AGESA is pretty wack, I'm pretty sure there's a Geardown switch in like 3 different places on some boards including the CBS menu. MSI is kinda unique in lumping it in the same menu with CR.

Were you on 2T before? 3200 is low enough a speed I think you might even get away with 1T without much issue, but GDM stability is always welcome.


----------



## harm9963 (Jan 13, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> AGESA is pretty wack, I'm pretty sure there's a Geardown switch in like 3 different places on some boards including the CBS menu. MSI is kinda unique in lumping it in the same menu with CR.
> 
> Were you on 2T before? 3200 is low enough a speed I think you might even get away with 1T without much issue, but GDM stability is always welcome.


Yes it is ,to many bells and whistle !


----------



## Mussels (Jan 13, 2021)

My asus board is like that, got 3 copies of some settings and i have no idea what the difference is - you can turn one on, reboot, and the other is still off

PBO is like that, i can have it disabled and enabled at the same time and it hurts my brain


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 13, 2021)

Mussels said:


> My asus board is like that, got 3 copies of some settings and i have no idea what the difference is - you can turn one on, reboot, and the other is still off
> 
> PBO is like that, i can have it disabled and enabled at the same time and it hurts my brain


What clocks do you run


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 13, 2021)

everyone: canada is such a great place to live!
canada:





Am one of those aforementioned 50 backorders for the 5900X; I only asked because I was originally told about 6-10 weeks and it's coming up on the end of that window.

5600X and 5800X don't exist.
Neither do any of the 30 series.
Neither the 6800 or 6800XT, they actually didn't even launch at launch here.
Neither do any of the last gen RTX.
There's 1 single (*ONE*) 5700 XT available, in store on the island. ONE unit. It's the shitty Asus Dual one.

Ahh the beauty of canuckistan

Actually kinda hoping the rabid AyyMD crowd can trash Intel a little harder on reddit, if it means I can have a shot at getting a 11700K instead when it launches


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 13, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Were you on 2T before? 3200 is low enough a speed I think you might even get away with 1T without much issue, but GDM stability is always welcome.


No AIDA64/Zen Timings showed 1T with the Auto option selected but GMD lower in the DRAM Timings section was on Auto. When I have tried 1T with GDM disabled it's a no POST with four slots filled even at 3200 MHz. The only time I've seen 1T work is with two of the 3200 MHz sticks at 3466 MHz.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 13, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> What clocks do you run


Eco mode with +200Mhz in PBO

if i was doing multi threaded work i'd turn eco off, i'm boosting to 5050 so i dont see any need to tweak beyond that


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 13, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Eco mode with +200Mhz in PBO
> 
> if i was doing multi threaded work i'd turn eco off, i'm boosting to 5050 so i dont see any need to tweak beyond that


What benefit does Eco mode bring
Based on name I’m guessing lower power consumption


----------



## Mussels (Jan 13, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> What benefit does Eco mode bring
> Based on name I’m guessing lower power consumption



caps to 65W TDP (like 85W PPT?)
lowers multi threaded performance a little to save that wattage, but doesnt hurt single threaded
it's kind of like a PBO profile so you can modify the three numbers it changes as you wish


----------



## Alyjen (Jan 13, 2021)

ECO mode is great, for few days I was testing ECO with PPT limits increased to 92W (defaut is 142W, default for eco is 88) for my 5800X and I was able to get ~5800 +/- 50 points in CB R20 multithread, for 50W less and way lower temps. My default PBO auto scores are around 6050 +/- 50 points. Single thread as mentioned unaffected.
If I'm ever to OC this CPU I'll start at ECO or a little over ECO mode and tweak it up to get as close to stock performance as it's possible, without this extra heat & wattage.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 13, 2021)

i'd just raise ECO PPT, move it from the 85 ish its on now to 125 or so - if i was doing some task that needed a lot of long term CPU power like rendering i'd just use my server or VR system anyway, and leave this one for gaming lol


----------



## Fluffmeister (Jan 14, 2021)

Gents, relatively new to the Zen garden but haven't got lost yet. Using a 3700X in a B550 Tomahawk as per my specs and it's been solid as a rock with no issues at all, certainly nothing that I have noticed at least!

Now I appreciate if it isn't broke, don't fix it. But any pros and cons to updating to any of the following, these are the BIOS listed on MSI's support page for my mobo:




The bottom A2 BIOS is what it's currently running when I got the board, it runs my Team Group 3600 CL16 RAM fine and this is what it benches at complete stock:


So yeah, worth bothering updating? Looking around I'm seeing mixed messages, and I understand a lot of it is about supporting Vermeer chips anyway.

Cheers


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 14, 2021)

Fluffmeister said:


> Now I appreciate if it isn't broke, don't fix it. But any pros and cons to updating to any of the following


The latest Agesa update adds support for Windows 10's s0i3 sleep state. No idea if it’s also for Zen2. The latest Agesa (1.1.9.0) seems to be targeted for Zen3, and the X570 platform.

I updated BIOS for my B450 Tomahawk, noticed some settings shuffled in the BIOS plus the SAM option. Didn’t notice any change for CPU performance although I didn’t reinstall Windows 10 or the chipset drivers. I eventually reverted back to the previous BIOS version.


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 14, 2021)

Took tRC to 44 but no matter what I do can't get 14-14-14 stable  I cri everitiem


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 14, 2021)

Fluffmeister said:


> Gents, relatively new to the Zen garden but haven't got lost yet. Using a 3700X in a B550 Tomahawk as per my specs and it's been solid as a rock with no issues at all, certainly nothing that I have noticed at least!
> 
> Now I appreciate if it isn't broke, don't fix it. But any pros and cons to updating to any of the following, these are the BIOS listed on MSI's support page for my mobo:
> View attachment 184009
> ...



Those are good results. If you had a 5000 chip it'd be a different story, but the current AGESA has been mature for 3000 chips for a long time.

Only reasons you'd want a newer BIOS are if you're running into WHEA errors you can't mitigate or the boosting performance leaves something to be desired. Or if you really want SAM, but the performance difference is pretty negligible.

Board vendors are still scrambling to fix the WHEA errors on 5000, so probably best to steer clear of being their guinea pig if you just have a 3700X and no real reason to upgrade.


----------



## Fluffmeister (Jan 14, 2021)

Cheers guys, that was my train of thought too, I'll leave it be.


----------



## Alyjen (Jan 14, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Took tRC to 44 but no matter what I do can't get 14-14-14 stable  I cri everitiem
> View attachment 184013



tRCDRD is hard and doesn't scale that good with voltage, for lots of kits there's a wall and you can throw any voltage at it and this one won't go any lower, with GDM OFF & 1T 16 is not bad score at all, hardly any kit can run it flat (like 14-14-14-14-28-42), even less at this frequency 

honestly you run better timings than I do on lower feq, and with GDM On


----------



## Mussels (Jan 14, 2021)

damn kids and their memory overclocks


all these TR and TF timings i have no idea about make me feel old, wheres the good old days of going 2-2-2-5 at 500 volts and being happy with it


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 14, 2021)

Mussels said:


> damn kids and their memory overclocks
> 
> 
> all these TR and TF timings i have no idea about make me feel old, wheres the good old days of going 2-2-2-5 at 500 volts and being happy with it


It’s a rabbit hole I refuse to go down just to see a nanosecond gain  in a benchmark...


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 14, 2021)

Mussels said:


> damn kids and their memory overclocks
> 
> 
> all these TR and TF timings i have no idea about make me feel old, wheres the good old days of going 2-2-2-5 at 500 volts and being happy with it


You prefer the simpler timings?


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 14, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> You prefer the simpler timings?



As someone who has overclocked the ram on ryzen in last year several times, the answer is hell yes I miss the old days. honestly its a lot of time consumption, which is why I gave up and just use MSI's BIOS "memory try it feature" which auto oc's, and has me stable at 3433 cas 14-14-14 right now on a 3200 cas 14 kit. i could prob get more out of it, but eh


----------



## Mussels (Jan 15, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> You prefer the simpler timings?



I prefer it when i was given DDR1 500 as a beginner reviewer to keep for life, vs having to pay for things now.

Also i just cant wrap my head around a lot of the subtimings... unless you buy B-die and copy someone elses settings, its too complicated.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 15, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I prefer it when i was given DDR1 500 as a beginner reviewer to keep for life, vs having to pay for things now.
> 
> Also i just cant wrap my head around a lot of the subtimings... unless you buy B-die and copy someone elses settings, its too complicated.



yep tried the copy thing a lot with my b-die, usually doesn't end well, one time i thought i had something stable for a full month but nope it wasn't lol... best to just do XMP or memory try it feature if you own MSI BIOS


----------



## djisas (Jan 15, 2021)

Mussels said:


> damn kids and their memory overclocks
> 
> 
> all these TR and TF timings i have no idea about make me feel old, wheres the good old days of going 2-2-2-5 at 500 volts and being happy with it



Hey, I had some ocz CL2, DDR400 tough


----------



## freeagent (Jan 15, 2021)

Memory overclocking on Ryzen is pretty boring to be honest.. you aren't missing anything. The difference between 1900 CL14 and 1900 CL16 is almost non-existent. The IF can only move so much, I have a hard time getting under 62ns for latency.. so there is some other overhead there somewhere. I wonder if an older bios would be better, as this one seems optimized for CL16. As for the calculator.. It didn't work too well for me, I had better luck plugging away on my own. What does make it satisfying is you have to work for it.. Intel might be a little more rewarding for your efforts, but I'm pretty content with it.



I had some OCZ 2.5-3-3-6 sticks that would only run cas 2, nothing else. So I ran em as fast as I could at 2-3-3-11 on my NF7-S and then later on my Abit and Asus 939 boards. Weirdest ram ever.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 15, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Memory overclocking on Ryzen is pretty boring to be honest.. you aren't missing anything. The difference between 1900 CL14 and 1900 CL16 is almost non-existent. The IF can only move so much, I have a hard time getting under 62ns for latency.. so there is some other overhead there somewhere. I wonder if an older bios would be better, as this one seems optimized for CL16. As for the calculator.. It didn't work too well for me, I had better luck plugging away on my own. What does make it satisfying is you have to work for it.. Intel might be a little more rewarding for your efforts, but I'm pretty content with it.
> 
> View attachment 184063View attachment 184064View attachment 184065
> 
> I had some OCZ 2.5-3-3-6 sticks that would only run cas 2, nothing else. So I ran em as fast as I could at 2-3-3-11 on my NF7-S and then later on my Abit and Asus 939 boards. Weirdest ram ever.



I get 56ns on my 32gb 2x16 kit.  at 3466 14-14-14  - i have 5600x though, i think that helps some


----------



## freeagent (Jan 15, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I get 56ns on my 32gb 2x16 kit.  at 3466 14-14-14  - i have 5600x though, i think that helps some


Yup that would be the deciding factor! I really wanted one of those CPUs too. This one is pretty good though, but you know..

Edit:

It still smacks my 3770K around!

Except in latency 

Edit again:

There's my 3770K 

How Low Can You Go? Memory Latency Competition - AIDA64 | TechPowerUp Forums


----------



## Alyjen (Jan 15, 2021)

I have never touched memory OC other than enabling XMP back in Intel times. This time thou.. I thought I'll give it a ago. Kit I got is no use on XMP anyway, 4400CL19 for Ryzen is well not applicable  Having gone through lots of ups and downs and stability issues I think that when the times comes and I'll need 32GB, I'll rather get 2x16 kit with something like 3600CL14 or even CL16 profile, rather than spending few days trying to figure out why something that worked on 2 sticks few months ago, refuses to work on 4


----------



## Caring1 (Jan 15, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> You prefer the simpler timings?


I see what you did there.


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 15, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I get 56ns on my 32gb 2x16 kit.  at 3466 14-14-14  - i have 5600x though, i think that helps some


Not really I could get sub 60ns on my 3700X on the same timings vs my 5600X I mean we are talking a few nanoseconds so I don't actually care but...


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 15, 2021)

INSTG8R said:


> Not really I could get sub 60ns on my 3700X on the same timings vs my 5600X I mean we are talking a few nanoseconds so I don't actually care but...




i don' care anymore either, which is why im leaving it on easy mode 3466 cas 14-14-14 instead of pushing it harder which i probably could but eh


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 15, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> i don' care anymore either, which is why im leaving it on easy mode 3466 cas 14-14-14 instead of pushing it harder which i probably could but eh


Well I'm technically running 3600 at 3800 but they are CL18 and can't be tightened at all at 3800 but easily did CL16 at "stock" 3600


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 15, 2021)

Everybody talking timing

and I sit here with 3600 18-19-19-19


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 15, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> Everybody talking timing
> 
> and I sit here with 3600 18-19-19-19


Phfft! My stock timings are 3600 18-22-22-42. They run fine that loose At 3800 so I won’t complain...


----------



## freeagent (Jan 15, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> Everybody talking timing
> 
> and I sit here with 3600 18-19-19-19


The speed matters more, you can work around the main timings


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 15, 2021)

INSTG8R said:


> Phfft! My stock timings are 3600 18-22-22-42. They run fine that loose At 3800 so I won’t complain...


I may add my stock speeds are 

3200 20-22-22-22


----------



## freeagent (Jan 15, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> I may add my stock speeds are
> 
> 3200 20-22-22-22


I'm so sorry.

I can send you some G.Sklill black and whites.. 3200 14-14-14-34.. They can go fast. Shipping might take a bit..


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 15, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I'm so sorry.
> 
> I can send you some G.Sklill black and whites.. 3200 14-14-14-34.. They can go fast. Shipping might take a bit..


Is it 32GB  

I’m using 32GB as I eat up RAM


----------



## freeagent (Jan 15, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> Is it 32GB
> 
> I’m using 32GB as I eat up RAM




No I'm sorry, just 16GB


----------



## kapone32 (Jan 15, 2021)

I have 48GB @ 3600 18-18-19-18 it seems pretty snappy to me


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 15, 2021)

So with Zen 3 how much does timing actually affect performance


----------



## kapone32 (Jan 15, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> So with Zen 3 how much does timing actually affect performance


I find the Infinity clock is the most mitigating factor.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 15, 2021)

kapone32 said:


> I find the Infinity clock is the most mitigating factor.


Yea I found the answer. So I'm good with a mediocre ram 

From the charts it's not as big as a impact as it was on Zen 2 and under


----------



## freeagent (Jan 15, 2021)

kapone32 said:


> I have 48GB @ 3600 18-18-19-18 it seems pretty snappy to me


My first time using this computer, I didn't do anything in the bios.. put parts together and installed windows. When I was done I opened cpuz to see what my memory was at.. 2133 22-22-22 and it still felt ok to me. and by OK I really mean holy shit this is fast. I was actually surprised because you would think it would run like diarrhea, but nope felt fine.. and by fine I still mean holy shit.. Set it to XMP for the first time, and couldn't really feel a difference.. Now pushing some numbers around and it still feels pretty decent, maybe a little snappier but the experience hasn't changed. Unless you start looking at benchmarks.. I guess it depends what you do.. I'm just a regular user who does nothing mission critical. Its just a hobby.. I could probably get away with a Dell but I might have a touch of OCD, so seeing a naked bios would probably make me sad.. seriously. I think I'm at the limit of what my system can do, and part of me is like ok now what? I guess that's why people buy old hardware to play with


----------



## sam_86314 (Jan 15, 2021)

Got my board back from MSI. They just went ahead and replaced it. Pretty good RMA experience overall.

I like the ASUS board I got, and I'll continue to use it. I'll either upgrade the CPU in my main rig at some point or find a cheap CPU (preferably an R5 1400 or better) to put in the old board.


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 15, 2021)

sam_86314 said:


> Got my board back from MSI. They just went ahead and replaced it. Pretty good RMA experience overall.
> 
> I like the ASUS board I got, and I'll continue to use it. I'll either upgrade the CPU in my main rig at some point or find a cheap CPU (preferably an R5 1400 or better) to put in the old board.


Are you going to check up on it just to make sure it’s good to go? Throw on the necessary components see if it’ll POST?


----------



## Mussels (Jan 16, 2021)

*sips delicious RAM juice with 64GB 3600 18-22-22-22*





TBH i do wanna work on the timings, but i really can't be arsed.


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 16, 2021)

Mussels said:


> *sips delicious RAM juice with 64GB 3600 18-22-22-22*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Same loose timings I’d try for 3800 on them before actually messing with the timings


----------



## Mussels (Jan 16, 2021)

I did on earlier agesa and got crashes at idle, but we're like 500 updates in since then


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 16, 2021)

Mussels said:


> 64GB 3600 18-22-22-22*


That's a lot memory space for an unwelcome bit flip to occur.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 16, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> That's a lot memory space for an unwelcome bit flip to occur.


I use it for a RAM drive to cache my torrent downloads to reduce SSD wear and tear


not even joking, i then set up a VRAM drive on the actual HTPC to do the same thing, because i'm insane


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 16, 2021)

Mussels said:


> not even joking, i then set up a VRAM drive on the actual HTPC to do the same thing, because i'm insane


That is not a qualification for insane. Smart maneuver though.


----------



## djisas (Jan 16, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I use it for a RAM drive to cache my torrent downloads to reduce SSD wear and tear
> 
> 
> not even joking, i then set up a VRAM drive on the actual HTPC to do the same thing, because i'm insane



Can i do that on 16 GB 
I actually switched my torrenting from an 500GB HDD to a turned obsolete 500GB evo 860...
Wonder how long the sammy will last on me...


----------



## Mussels (Jan 16, 2021)

djisas said:


> Can i do that on 16 GB
> I actually switched my torrenting from an 500GB HDD to a turned obsolete 500GB evo 860...
> Wonder how long the sammy will last on me...


 sure can, get primocache
set up a read/write cache with say a 10 second write buffer... watch the writes and fragmentation drop

I dont recommend doing that for an OS drive, if you crash or lose power you can lose 10 seconds of data and brick the OS worst case


----------



## freeagent (Jan 16, 2021)

Sweet!


----------



## djisas (Jan 16, 2021)

Mussels said:


> sure can, get primocache
> set up a read/write cache with say a 10 second write buffer... watch the writes and fragmentation drop
> 
> I dont recommend doing that for an OS drive, if you crash or lose power you can lose 10 seconds of data and brick the OS worst case



Actually, im running utorrent, the stone age version, on setting's it has disk cache settings, this already should reduce wear on the ssd, me thinks...


----------



## Mussels (Jan 16, 2021)

djisas said:


> Actually, im running utorrent, the stone age version, on setting's it has disk cache settings, this already should reduce wear on the ssd, me thinks...


it does, but this reduces it even further

i run it for my games drives too, its totally pointless but i enjoy making use of the extra ram


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 16, 2021)

Mussels said:


> *sips delicious RAM juice with 64GB 3600 18-22-22-22*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I mean, if it's not Micron and it's a two-stick kit, timings really aren't getting tighter. So far Rev.B is the only 16Gb IC that actually overclocks (an understatement for illustrious Rev.B, ofc), the rest scale negatively with voltage as soon as you try to do something. You're probably doing the right thing by not messing with it, though I'm curious what exactly is in that kit.

Didn't Toms and our own TPU test back on 3000 and find that even 3600/18 XMP is a gaming improvement over 3200/14 XMP?


----------



## djisas (Jan 16, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I mean, if it's not Micron and it's a two-stick kit, timings really aren't getting tighter. So far Rev.B is the only 16Gb IC that actually overclocks (an understatement for illustrious Rev.B, ofc), the rest scale negatively with voltage as soon as you try to do something. You're probably doing the right thing by not messing with it, though I'm curious what exactly is in that kit.
> 
> Didn't Toms and our own TPU test back on 3000 and find that even 3600/18 XMP is a gaming improvement over 3200/14 XMP?



In gaming is probably unnoticeable, only ram sensitive apps and benchmarks should make a difference...

Would me trying to get my own kit run at 3800CL18 make a difference from 3600CL16?
Probably to much hassle to be worth it, but I might fiddle with it some when I update my bios...


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 16, 2021)

djisas said:


> In gaming is probably unnoticeable, only ram sensitive apps and benchmarks should make a difference...
> 
> Would me trying to get my own kit run at 3800CL18 make a difference from 3600CL16?
> Probably to much hassle to be worth it, but I might fiddle with it some when I update my bios...



No thats not quite what I meant, I just wanted to say that getting to 3600 is better than 3200 even if it's at CL18,

Though the more the DRAM latency comes down and the bigger and faster L3 gets, the less important RAM becomes to Ryzen, it's not the way it used to be

If your Team kit is the CJR or B-die I think it is, either way you'd be looking at doing 3800CL16 not CL18.


----------



## djisas (Jan 16, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> No thats not quite what I meant, I just wanted to say that getting to 3600 is better than 3200 even if it's at CL18,
> 
> Though the more the DRAM latency comes down and the bigger and faster L3 gets, the less important RAM becomes to Ryzen, it's not the way it used to be
> 
> If your Team kit is the CJR or B-die I think it is, either way you'd be looking at doing 3800CL16 not CL18.



It's hynix CJR or something...
Had trouble running on current setting on previous bios, not too sure about 3800CL16, they are however rater 4000CL18...


----------



## freeagent (Jan 16, 2021)

I don't think timings matter that much.. things only move so fast. After looking at numbers in aida64 and trying all kinds of combos, I saw a lot of similarities. But at 1900MHz there is almost no difference in performance between 16-16-16-36 1T 1.4v and 14-14-14-34 1T 1.5v. I haven't really played with 3D too much yet so I could be talking out of my ass.. wouldn't be the first time heh..







I did kick the CPU speed up a little, but I really don't think it has an effect on memory performance, I just did it to flex that Cache a little


----------



## sam_86314 (Jan 16, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> Are you going to check up on it just to make sure it’s good to go? Throw on the necessary components see if it’ll POST?


Meh, that'll require me to completely tear down my rig.

I can tell for certain that they sent me a brand new board. Aside from being factory sealed, I remember mangling the side USB 3.0 connector when I originally got it, and the new board obviously doesn't have that damage.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 16, 2021)

djisas said:


> It's hynix CJR or something...
> Had trouble running on current setting on previous bios, not too sure about 3800CL16, they are however rater 4000CL18...



Team has too many 4000 kits   I'm surprised you managed to snatch up a CJR kit, most of their 4000 stuff is B-die

If it's a 1.35V kit then 3800/16 should be pretty doable below 1.45V. Below 4000 CJR's biggest problem is generally staying under that 1.45V mark - some people say it should be the safe limit for Hynix, some say they've degraded running 1.4-1.45V.



freeagent said:


> I don't think timings matter that much.. things only move so fast. After looking at numbers in aida64 and trying all kinds of combos, I saw a lot of similarities. But at 1900MHz there is almost no difference in performance between 16-16-16-36 1T 1.4v and 14-14-14-34 1T 1.5v. I haven't really played with 3D too much yet so I could be talking out of my ass.. wouldn't be the first time heh..
> 
> View attachment 184183View attachment 184184
> 
> I did kick the CPU speed up a little, but I really don't think it has an effect on memory performance, I just did it to flex that Cache a little



I have a feeling that 3800/14 profile is unstable. AIDA has a tendency to post very crappy latency scores when the memory profile isn't actually stable. So unless you've tested to about 400%+ in HCI and passed runs in TM5 anta then that 3800/14 profile doesn't look right.

At the same time, if you're looking for sub-60 with a Ryzen 3000, you're kinda barking up the wrong tree   accept the latency and enjoy your life


----------



## freeagent (Jan 16, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Team has too many 4000 kits   I'm surprised you managed to snatch up a CJR kit, most of their 4000 stuff is B-die
> 
> If it's a 1.35V kit then 3800/16 should be pretty doable below 1.45V. Below 4000 CJR's biggest problem is generally staying under that 1.45V mark - some people say it should be the safe limit for Hynix, some say they've degraded running 1.4-1.45V.
> 
> ...


Sweet, Ill try it out! You are probably right. Latency doesn't bother me, just a limitation of the platform! All good   

Like I said in an earlier post, 2133 and a bunch of 22s felt pretty snappy


----------



## Mussels (Jan 16, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I mean, if it's not Micron and it's a two-stick kit, timings really aren't getting tighter. So far Rev.B is the only 16Gb IC that actually overclocks (an understatement for illustrious Rev.B, ofc), the rest scale negatively with voltage as soon as you try to do something. You're probably doing the right thing by not messing with it, though I'm curious what exactly is in that kit.
> 
> Didn't Toms and our own TPU test back on 3000 and find that even 3600/18 XMP is a gaming improvement over 3200/14 XMP?



it's this, whatever this is


----------



## freeagent (Jan 16, 2021)

I used to use Linpack Xtreme to test my memory when I ran Intel. It was pretty good.. think it works ok on AMD?


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 16, 2021)

Mussels said:


> it's this, whatever this is



MJR, huh. Interesting.

Not a lot of info on them. Maybe dial in the secondaries and can try for 3733/3800, probably not much else to be done on those primaries. So you're probably doing the right thing leaving them alone lol



freeagent said:


> I used to use Linpack Xtreme to test my memory when I ran Intel. It was pretty good.. think it works ok on AMD?
> 
> View attachment 184187



Yeah it has a "stress" option but only heard of LinX being used to test/compare mem performance. It does work well in that capacity, though.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 16, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Yeah it has a "stress" option but only heard of LinX being used to test/compare mem performance. It does work well in that capacity, though.


Poor choice in words, I should have said I have used it to stress memory, and it worked well. Its pretty sensitive.. I set 8GB to run 25 times and hit go.. I wasn't sure if it would finish.. My other stuff seems to work ok. I'm going to play with my Black and Whites tomorrow and see what they can do. I am curious how far they can go even if timings aren't so tight. I am wonder if they can go faster mhz wise than my Royals.

There are no error reports and everything looks clean so far


----------



## Night (Jan 16, 2021)

Can someone provide some info for RAM on Ryzen 7 2700X? Anyone did any overclocking on it and is it as efficient as it is on 2nd and 3rd gen?

Never mind, I've noticed that the 1usmus' overclocking guide was ran by a 2700X.
But still, my friend is looking for faster RAM. I'm thinking about this one:








						F4-3200C14D-16GTZRX - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
					

Trident Z RGB (For AMD) DDR4-3200 CL14-14-14-34 1.35V 16GB (2x8GB) The Trident Z RGB (For AMD) series is tested for AMD platform compatibility. Featuring the award-winning Trident Z heatspreader design, the Trident Z RGB memory series combines the vivid RGB lighting with awesome DDR4 DRAM...




					www.gskill.com
				



It's Samsung B Die, but I suppose some Hynix counterpart would also do well?


----------



## djisas (Jan 16, 2021)

Night said:


> Can someone provide some info for RAM on Ryzen 7 2700X? Anyone did any overclocking on it and is it as efficient as it is on 2nd and 3rd gen?



From what I know, zen 1xxx was a bitch, zen 2xxx was better but still tricky, zen 3xxx was a lot better, and the trend with zen 3 5xxx should continue to improve...


----------



## Night (Jan 18, 2021)

Need more advice on the RAM, anyone?


----------



## enor14 (Jan 18, 2021)

I'll be in the need of some serious help because I have strange behaviour that I think is coming from some wrong RAM settings. In the evening I'll be around the PC so until then could you please write a list of programs I'll need to extract the informations needed for correct diagnose of the root cause? In the meantime you can find some specs here: CPU-Z Validator


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 19, 2021)

I found out after installing MSI's Dragon Center along with some unnecessary bloat that I didn't care about (uninstalled what I could.) Under Live Update then clicking the advance button there was a firmware update for the BIOS Flashback button on this B450 Tomahawk. Anyone else knew there was firmware to update?


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 20, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> I found out after installing MSI's Dragon Center along with some unnecessary bloat that I didn't care about (uninstalled what I could.) Under Live Update then clicking the advance button there was a firmware update for the BIOS Flashback button on this B450 Tomahawk. Anyone else knew there was firmware to update?
> 
> View attachment 184692


Pure BIOS man! I miss ASUS BIOS on GB but man do I not miss AIsuite....only thing I need installed standalone in my RGB software because BIOS updates reset my RGB


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 20, 2021)

INSTG8R said:


> I miss ASUS BIOS on GB but man do I not miss AIsuite


I only installed Dragon Center for Mystic Lighting which is hidden away/controlled now via Appx called Control Center.


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 20, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> I only installed Dragon Center for Mystic Lighting which is hidden away/controlled now via Appx called Control Center.


Yeah GB wants you to install their “Control Center“ for everything too but the RGB will go in standalone and all I actually need


----------



## Alyjen (Jan 20, 2021)

INSTG8R said:


> Pure BIOS man! I miss ASUS BIOS on GB but man do I not miss AIsuite....only thing I need installed standalone in my RGB software because BIOS updates reset my RGB


AI Suite has one advantage and it's fan control. Now that I have some fans connected to AIO pump header I can control it via AI Suite the way I want, but not in BIOS (biggest flaw is it won't accept rpms below 60% in BIOS), wrote suggestion to ASUS to allow AIO header calibration, same as for other connectors, if they do that I'll remove AI suite again


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 20, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> I found out after installing MSI's Dragon Center along with some unnecessary bloat that I didn't care about (uninstalled what I could.) Under Live Update then clicking the advance button there was a firmware update for the BIOS Flashback button on this B450 Tomahawk. Anyone else knew there was firmware to update?
> 
> View attachment 184692





INSTG8R said:


> Yeah GB wants you to install their “Control Center“ for everything too but the RGB will go in standalone and all I actually need



If RGB is all you need have you looked into OpenRGB? I had this period of time where I was fed up with G.skill's RGB control so I tried it out. Didn't work particularly well with my RAM because sometimes the settings wouldn't stick (fuckin RGB RAM that can't be permanently turned off), but since I was using it anyways I thought I'd use it to control the Aura LED corner on my board and it always worked.

I've always had a deep seated hatred for these "utilities" from motherboard vendors whether it's some sort of EZ OC or RGB control. Half the time they don't even remember to start up properly, the other half of the time they break shit and cause issues or hog background resources. The fan control I used to understand because GB fan control in BIOS used to be complete dung, but much has changed since then


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 20, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> If RGB is all you need have you looked into OpenRGB? I had this period of time where I was fed up with G.skill's RGB control so I tried it out. Didn't work particularly well with my RAM because sometimes the settings wouldn't stick (fuckin RGB RAM that can't be permanently turned off), but since I was using it anyways I thought I'd use it to control the Aura LED corner on my board and it always worked.
> 
> I've always had a deep seated hatred for these "utilities" from motherboard vendors whether it's some sort of EZ OC or RGB control. Half the time they don't even remember to start up properly, the other half of the time they break shit and cause issues or hog background resources. The fan control I used to understand because GB fan control in BIOS used to be complete dung, but much has changed since then


It’s literally an open and close when I have to flash my BIOS because it resets my colour. I don’t need it open or running just one shot deal


----------



## Mussels (Jan 20, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> If RGB is all you need have you looked into OpenRGB? I had this period of time where I was fed up with G.skill's RGB control so I tried it out. Didn't work particularly well with my RAM because sometimes the settings wouldn't stick (fuckin RGB RAM that can't be permanently turned off), but since I was using it anyways I thought I'd use it to control the Aura LED corner on my board and it always worked.
> 
> I've always had a deep seated hatred for these "utilities" from motherboard vendors whether it's some sort of EZ OC or RGB control. Half the time they don't even remember to start up properly, the other half of the time they break shit and cause issues or hog background resources. The fan control I used to understand because GB fan control in BIOS used to be complete dung, but much has changed since then



open RGB crashes on my mixed asus/corsair systems and takes out the lighting with it, needing the PSU to be unplugged before they recover


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 20, 2021)

The thing that bugged me was there’s a update for the BIOS Flashback button feature but it doesn’t show up under the downloads section on MSI’s support page by Windows OS version. Instead the only way was through Live Update in their Dragon Center software bundle.


----------



## ChristTheGreat (Jan 21, 2021)

New owner of a Ryzen 5800x!!!! IT'S A HOT CPU! Wow lol. Performance is amazing, but even with a Noctua NH-U14S, and a Noctua ippc 2000 pwm, prime is insane (90C), cinebench gets low 80C, fan at 100%, speed of 4.475/4.490ghz all core, and I set a negative offset of 0.06v.


I am thing maybe if an arctic freezer II 240mm would help a bit !!


----------



## Mussels (Jan 21, 2021)

ChristTheGreat said:


> New owner of a Ryzen 5800x!!!! IT'S A HOT CPU! Wow lol. Performance is amazing, but even with a Noctua NH-U14S, and a Noctua ippc 2000 pwm, prime is insane (90C), cinebench gets low 80C, fan at 100%, speed of 4.475/4.490ghz all core, and I set a negative offset of 0.06v.
> 
> 
> I am thing maybe if an arctic freezer II 240mm would help a bit !!



Whatever you throw on it, it'll run in the 80's to 90 - its got extremely dense heat compared to anything else on the market


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 21, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Whatever you throw on it, it'll run in the 80's to 90 - its got extremely dense heat compared to anything else on the market


So far mine hardly exceeds 80*C


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 21, 2021)

*Messing with curve optimiser and subtimings.*











CPU die average temps don't go above 70c, CCD1 hits 78.

This is on non-bench cooling settings too, so it's very quiet. The chassis fans are NF-a4x10 x2 (RAM), 4xnfa12x25 are connected to CPU PWM.



I had a result of 1200 L3 cache at one point, so maybe some timing combination leads to that, or it was an error.


----------



## ChristTheGreat (Jan 21, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Whatever you throw on it, it'll run in the 80's to 90 - its got extremely dense heat compared to anything else on the market


yeah I saw that. it's just crazy. at least, in gaming it's okay. but I can't run WCG now


----------



## Mussels (Jan 21, 2021)

Damn, using OCCT to test out a curve and seeing 80C with just two cores loaded

these chips realllllllly like to just go balls to the wall for whatever load you have


----------



## freeagent (Jan 21, 2021)

I've been tuning my ancient 3000 series a little. It took about a month of tinkering and experimenting. Running 2 sticks and 4 sticks and playing with all of the buttons while keeping vdimm @ 1.5v or under though I was tempted.. 

I settled at 1.46v on four stix for this overclock 

Man those 5000s look hot, and not just the temps but holy balls man they pack a punch.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 21, 2021)

I feel like we need coolers that specifically cool the CCX part of hte chip, not the center

that and/or i need some better thermal paste (but shit, kryonaut is one of the best isnt it?)

Ahaha, core 3 is my weak one - at -30 on the curve OCCT is all HERRRRROOOO


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 21, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I feel like we need coolers that specifically cool the CCX part of hte chip, not the center


Considering the die is Indium soldered to the heatspreader there shouldn't be a heat transfer issue other than the surface area of the die is small.

Thermal conductivity81.8 W/(m·K)


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 21, 2021)

I'm going to change my cryonaut extreme to conductonaut on my CPU.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 21, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> Considering the die is Indium soldered to the heatspreader there shouldn't be a heat transfer issue other than the surface area of the die is small.
> 
> Thermal conductivity81.8 W/(m·K)



Maybe Intel was onto something with the die thinning and thick IHS on Comet Lake. It sure improved temps across the board for that entire family of CPUs. Wouldn't be surprised if AMD seized the new AM5 socket opportunity to shake things up a bit, maybe different die footprints and and some of those IHS tricks.

Can't remember if it was bz or luumi who said it but at a certain point high clock frequency itself becomes as much a contributor to heat as voltage. 

The extra die area on Renoir seems to help soak up some heat, so I'm keen to see when the Cezanne APUs come to desktop and what they can do. Since the iGPU part is going to be a complete borefest


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 21, 2021)

I'm so glad I got a stable all core OC of 4.625 at 1.350v - reading this thread gives me a headache i don't care if i lose out on single thread boosts, im quite happy with this.


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 21, 2021)

1.35v is high for static voltage.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Jan 21, 2021)

ChristTheGreat said:


> New owner of a Ryzen 5800x!!!! IT'S A HOT CPU! Wow lol. Performance is amazing, but even with a Noctua NH-U14S, and a Noctua ippc 2000 pwm, prime is insane (90C), cinebench gets low 80C, fan at 100%, speed of 4.475/4.490ghz all core, and I set a negative offset of 0.06v.
> 
> I am thing maybe if an arctic freezer II 240mm would help a bit !!



It's a shame the 5800X is so hot. Some owners can tolerate it but it would heatsoak my room far too quickly and make playing games uncomfortable. That's why I didn't buy one. Even my 5600X gets a bit warm after an hour or so and I have to turn a fan on.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 21, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> 1.35v is high for static voltage.



i don't even break 60 celsius in games. and even w1zzard tpu review uses a 1.35v oc. its not that bad really. its my property so ill do as i please though, thanks


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 21, 2021)

Your loss.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 21, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Your loss.



Do you have any evidence that 1.35v is too high for a zen 3 chip? every youtube review i saw of it used a similar voltage.  people who say they are getting same overclocks at 1.28v or w.e are full of bs and not doing proper stress tests for stability.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 21, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I feel like we need coolers that specifically cool the CCX part of hte chip, not the center
> 
> that and/or i need some better thermal paste (but shit, kryonaut is one of the best isnt it?)
> 
> Ahaha, core 3 is my weak one - at -30 on the curve OCCT is all HERRRRROOOO


I’ll try OCCT on mine as this far temps are very good sitting around 77*C loaded


----------



## ChristTheGreat (Jan 21, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> It's a shame the 5800X is so hot. Some owners can tolerate it but it would heatsoak my room far too quickly and make playing games uncomfortable. That's why I didn't buy one. Even my 5600X gets a bit warm after an hour or so and I have to turn a fan on.


I see that the 5900x is colder than the 5800x, du to CCX. The CPU gets hot, but, it looks like if heat stays in the CPU and not beeing dissipate.

I know, all my ryzen snce my 2600x (3600x, 3700x, 5800x), they were all host with NH-U12S and NH-U14S. Repasted ALOT of time, used MX4, NT-H1, NT-H2.

Sometimes, I'm thinking if it'S not my ROG Strix x470-F that report over?


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Jan 25, 2021)

Finally got an MSI Afterburner beta version that shows individual CPU temperatures, clocks, usage and power draw for each core on Zen 3 processors.

Not sure how long this 4.6.3 Beta 4 version has been available, but somehow I didn't find it until now.


----------



## Alyjen (Jan 26, 2021)

Oh! I need to check this, I was able to work around it (there were some guides how to add this support) but the results were lacking.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 26, 2021)

ChristTheGreat said:


> I see that the 5900x is colder than the 5800x, du to CCX. The CPU gets hot, but, it looks like if heat stays in the CPU and not beeing dissipate.
> 
> I know, all my ryzen snce my 2600x (3600x, 3700x, 5800x), they were all host with NH-U12S and NH-U14S. Repasted ALOT of time, used MX4, NT-H1, NT-H2.
> 
> Sometimes, I'm thinking if it'S not my ROG Strix x470-F that report over?



What does HWInfo's Power Reporting Deviation metric say when you're in the middle of an all-core benchmark?

I think more of the 300- and 400-series motherboards are prone to underreporting power draw from being older, creating higher boost clocks but more current and power draw and heat; a lot of the X570/B550 boards came out after the community discovered the intentional telemetry underreporting.

I can understand the 5800X and 3600X, but a 3700X that properly reports current draw and respects power limits is a pretty cool running chip in the context of the other chips.


----------



## ChristTheGreat (Jan 26, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> What does HWInfo's Power Reporting Deviation metric say when you're in the middle of an all-core benchmark?
> 
> I think more of the 300- and 400-series motherboards are prone to underreporting power draw from being older, creating higher boost clocks but more current and power draw and heat; a lot of the X570/B550 boards came out after the community discovered the intentional telemetry underreporting.
> 
> I can understand the 5800X and 3600X, but a 3700X that properly reports current draw and respects power limits is a pretty cool running chip in the context of the other chips.




I'll check!

I did a few test, installed ryzen master, and started an manual overclock. 3.8ghz start, at 1.15v, no issue, low 60C temp Cinebench (suprised?? LOL)

4.5ghz @ 1.25v isn't stable, ran prime and after a few sec, a couple of core failed.

if I leave stock (I am running 0.04v negative offset), everything is stable but high temp. vcore is like between 1.35 and 1.4v to reach 4.475ghz. I can try to reduce voltage for the all core clock. Right now, -0.06v can crash because of PBO.


Maybe I have again, a bad clocker, like 99% of all my CPU I bought in my life (the only one I had great, was a pre binned opteron 165 hahaha)


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 27, 2021)

Anyone else get these low L3 read results? Could've sworn I've seen something along the lines of this somewhere in one of the billion Zen 3 threads on the forum.





I get this most of the time at 4000 and 4200. I think I got normal (550-650GB/s) L3 read like, twice, out of 10 runs. Upping SOC doesn't change anything, the memory itself is stable and so is the IF.

Next step I gotta see if it still does this at 3800.

I don't think I've ever seen this on my 3700X, but then again I can only run 3600 on there.


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 27, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Anyone else get these low L3 read results? Could've sworn I've seen something along the lines of this somewhere in one of the billion Zen 3 threads on the forum.


My 3800X at 42.75/43 gets this for the L3 Cache.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 27, 2021)

i have no idea whats good or bad, and i didnt quit all background tasks

edit: quit all my RGB stuffs. these scores seem to be all over the place? lots of variance in this i guess.


----------



## thesmokingman (Jan 27, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Finally got an MSI Afterburner beta version that shows individual CPU temperatures, clocks, usage and power draw for each core on Zen 3 processors.
> 
> Not sure how long this 4.6.3 Beta 4 version has been available, but somehow I didn't find it until now.
> 
> View attachment 185489


You shouldn't use it for monitoring anyways. Use hwinfo and set it to send whatever sensors to OSD via RTSS. That said you should still use AB for oc'ing your gpu.


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 27, 2021)

Mussels said:


> i have no idea whats good or bad, and i didnt quit all background tasks


That's... Really bad. I'm sorry to say. Your latency should be under 60 ideally, mine is 54. Your read and copy speeds should be above 60gb/s. L3 cache is also slower than it should be.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 27, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> That's... Really bad. I'm sorry to say. Your latency should be under 60 ideally, mine is 54. Your read and copy speeds should be above 60gb/s. L3 cache is also slower than it should be.


Feel free to recommend me some settings, i have weird RAM - Hynix something





clean boot not much better

This is 2x32GB 3600 C18 sticks, you may be expecting too much from them


----------



## thesmokingman (Jan 27, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Anyone else get these low L3 read results? Could've sworn I've seen something along the lines of this somewhere in one of the billion Zen 3 threads on the forum.
> 
> I get this most of the time at 4000 and 4200. I think I got normal (550-650GB/s) L3 read like, twice, out of 10 runs. Upping SOC doesn't change anything, the memory itself is stable and so is the IF.
> 
> ...


The latency is good but the load on the imc is probably too much hence the really poor L3 perf.


Mussels said:


> i have no idea whats good or bad, and i didnt quit all background tasks
> 
> edit: quit all my RGB stuffs. these scores seem to be all over the place? lots of variance in this i guess.


Base Ryzen 5k latency 62ns. You're well above that and yea Hynix or other. I believe base memory speed is 3200mhz and cas14. As for timings... no idea for that ram. You'll have to play with dram calc, and use thaiphoon to export your xmp to dram calc so you can get medieval on your timings.

Here's my slightly tightened 4000mhz C17 2x16g b-dies running 3600mhz. The latency is ok-ish at best but the cache perf is really good.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 27, 2021)

thesmokingman said:


> The latency is good but the load on the imc is probably too much hence the really poor L3 perf.



I've spent some time thinking about it and it's gotta be something to do with the IF. But I honestly don't know why it's behaving this way because I know if I give it 1.2V it'll do 2200MHz stable IF. 

IMC is also a possibility, but I thought about it and 4200 isn't even close to maxing out the Renoir UMC. Just to make sure I'm not insane, I tried to go back through some of BZ's videos with his 4750G to make sure he isn't getting the same symptoms when he's taking his Rev.B to 4500-5500MT/s - unfortunately he likes Geekbench and really never runs even AIDA for the memory test, let alone the complete cache test. 

On the topic of Geekbench 3 I did score a hair under 8800 memory score today which is pretty respectable. I'm also getting the gains I should from memory speed in the games I play on this comp, so either there is something I'm missing here or AIDA is just unpredictable (I know it is, but 300GB/s seems a bit much).




It's not BankGroupSwap either - the benchmark penalty for having it off still holds true and I don't notice any gains in game with it off. AIDA is still just as unpredictable with BGS, BGS APU or BGS ALT.

It doesn't appear to be VSOC either.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 27, 2021)

Reebooted, set to 3800/1900 - no WHEA thanks to latest AGESA

DRAM calc does not support this RAM, its pretty useless for anything not B-die


----------



## ViperXTR (Jan 27, 2021)

Uuh, my L3 cache score seems pretty low too :O


----------



## thesmokingman (Jan 27, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I've spent some time thinking about it and it's gotta be something to do with the IF. But I honestly don't know why it's behaving this way because I know if I give it 1.2V it'll do 2200MHz stable IF.
> 
> IMC is also a possibility, but I thought about it and 4200 isn't even close to maxing out the Renoir UMC. Just to make sure I'm not insane, I tried to go back through some of BZ's videos with his 4750G to make sure he isn't getting the same symptoms when he's taking his Rev.B to 4500-5500MT/s - unfortunately he likes Geekbench and really never runs even AIDA for the memory test, let alone the complete cache test.
> 
> ...


If you do a test from say 3600-3800-4000mhz, the cache perf seems to go down as you go up in speed. At least it does on my rig and I assume others but don't think this has been a big discussion point so it's vague. Try it and see.



ViperXTR said:


> View attachment 185766
> 
> Uuh, my L3 cache score seems pretty low too :O


Btw you wanna be on the latest aida version for Ryzen 5k support.


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 27, 2021)

thesmokingman said:


> Btw you wanna be on the latest aida version for Ryzen 5k support.


His screenshot at the bottom shows 6.32.5600.

Version: 6.32.5600 *stable* (Dec 15, 2020)

Release notes:

AVX2 and FMA accelerated 64-bit benchmarks for AMD Zen 3 based Ryzen 5000 Series processors


----------



## thesmokingman (Jan 27, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> His screenshot at the bottom shows 6.32.5600.
> 
> Version: 6.32.5600 *stable* (Dec 15, 2020)
> 
> ...


Doh, my bad. I must have read the numbers wrong.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 27, 2021)

thesmokingman said:


> If you do a test from say 3600-3800-4000mhz, the cache perf seems to go down as you go up in speed. At least it does on my rig and I assume others but don't think this has been a big discussion point so it's vague. Try it and see.
> 
> 
> Btw you wanna be on the latest aida version for Ryzen 5k support.



Down to 3600, it's still doing it. I think imma just write AIDA off as a lost cause and go back to my usual profiles (which honestly it might as well be lol, hopelessly synthetic).





Interesting observation on the cache. I haven't really noticed a general decay in L3 performance up to 4600, just the weird 1/2 L3 read half the time. The L3 R/W/C numbers are so variable all the time I don't pay much attention to them until they pull a stunt like this.


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 27, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Down to 3600, it's still doing it. I think imma just write AIDA off as a lost cause and go back to my usual profiles (which honestly it might as well be lol, hopelessly synthetic).
> 
> View attachment 185767
> 
> Interesting observation on the cache. I haven't really noticed a general decay in L3 performance up to 4600, just the weird 1/2 L3 read half the time. The L3 R/W/C numbers are so variable all the time I don't pay much attention to them until they pull a stunt like this.


Could it be a sleeping core related to power management? Windows Scheduler shuffling threads around?


----------



## ViperXTR (Jan 27, 2021)

Power management? Maybe test it on high performance or balanced profile? Ryzen balance does not exist on Ryzen 5000 yes?


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 27, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Feel free to recommend me some settings, i have weird RAM - Hynix something
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Show me a Zen timings screenshot and I'll see what I can do. But yes, 2x32gb is a problem.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 27, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> Could it be a sleeping core related to power management? Windows Scheduler shuffling threads around?





ViperXTR said:


> Power management? Maybe test it on high performance or balanced profile? Ryzen balance does not exist on Ryzen 5000 yes?



Tried all 4 different plans. Still doing it. Although I decided to move to the Windows HP plan instead, the Ryzen plans are doing some sus shit with boosting in CPU benchmarks, sometimes driving my multi core down low as a 2600X.


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 27, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


> Ryzen balance does not exist on Ryzen 5000 yes?


Isn't Renoir Zen 2? No power plans are installed by the chipset drivers for Zen 3 Ryzen 5x00 series. Just the Windows 10 power plans.

Edit:    

Cezanne (Ryzen 5000 Mobile with Zen 3),
Lucienne (Ryzen 5000 Mobile with Zen 2),
Renoir (Ryzen 4000 Mobile, all Zen 2), 
Vermeer (Ryzen 5000 Desktop, all Zen 3),   
Matisse (Ryzen 3000 Desktop, all Zen 2)


----------



## ViperXTR (Jan 27, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> Isn't Renoir Zen 2? No power plans are installed by the chipset drivers for Zen 3 Ryzen 5x00 series. Just the Windows 10 power plans.


Yeah, Renoir is Zen 2, AMD mentioned that zen 3 no longer requires special power profile as windows can manage it fine now (maybe it had something to do with the CCX differences vs zen 2)


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 27, 2021)

From over on Anandtech: Ryzen 9 5980HS
Core to Core Latency:




vs Zen 2












						AMD Ryzen 9 5980HS Cezanne Review: Ryzen 5000 Mobile Tested
					






					www.anandtech.com


----------



## Radi_SVK (Jan 27, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> That's... Really bad. I'm sorry to say. Your latency should be under 60 ideally, mine is 54. Your read and copy speeds should be above 60gb/s. L3 cache is also slower than it should beSorry


You not being really accurate here. Do you have the same Speed and timings? Doubt so... With timings of 18-22-22-42 @ 3600Mhz the 71ns latency is perfectly in line, even though less than perfect. Show me where did you see that with such timings he should have under 60ns, let alone 54ns just like yourself?
@Mussels increase your DRAM voltage to 1.4V and try to work your way down by one steps increments in timings and see whats the best you can get, I just like yourself have a 3600MHz RAM sticks that came with lukewarm timings of 20-23-23-43 @1.35V
with 1.4V I went 16-18-18-36 which gave me 68-69ns latency, which is not bad for a less pricey 3600MHz sticks and its probably best you can get.. Dont listen to @dgianstefani , you cant ever achieve 54ns  or under 60ns with those RAM sticks and 68-69ns will be perfectly fine.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 27, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Show me a Zen timings screenshot and I'll see what I can do. But yes, 2x32gb is a problem.








And yeah i knew i would never come close to a C14 kit, but thats the price i paid to get 64GB of ram in just two sticks


AS well as the kidneys i stole off that homeless child


----------



## ViperXTR (Jan 27, 2021)

Radi_SVK said:


> You not being really accurate here. Do you have the same Speed and timings? Doubt so... With timings of 18-22-22-42 @ 3600Mhz the 71ns latency is perfectly in line, even though less than perfect. Show me where did you see that with such timings he should have under 60ns, let alone 54ns just like yourself?
> @Mussels increase your DRAM voltage to 1.4V and try to work your way down by one steps increments in timings and see whats the best you can get, I just like yourself have a 3600MHz RAM sticks that came with lukewarm timings of 20-23-23-43 @1.35V
> with 1.4V I went 16-18-18-36 which gave me 68-69ns latency, which is not bad for a less pricey 3600MHz sticks and its probably best you can get.. Dont listen to @dgianstefani , you cant ever achieve 54ns  or under 60ns with those RAM sticks and 68-69ns will be perfectly fine.


Hmm, i have the same exact timings for 2x16GB dual rank 3600Mhz (18-22-22-42) using XMP profile but i get around 66ns latency. have yet to tweak memory timings though, my ol 3300X doesnt want too much modification in IF clock, timings and frequency, hope my current AGESA 1.2.0.0 (beta) and 5800X memory controller i  can get lucky


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 27, 2021)

@Mussels For MJR I don't think the primaries really scale so 18-22-22 might be the best you're gonna get. Can't remember if it's one of the ICs that scales negatively with voltage but I remember hearing about people doing 3733 and 3800 on pretty reasonable voltage, just with the 18-22-22 primaries. It is a 16Gb IC so it's a big boi, and it's not Rev.B.

That said, 550ns tRFC is a bit...it might not be CJR but it's still Hynix. Can it do something like 630 @ 3600? That'll bring you down to about 350ns.

I don't know how MJR handles RRDS/RRDL/FAW/WTRS/WTRL/WR so you might have to experiment a bit there.


----------



## Radi_SVK (Jan 27, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


> Hmm, i have the same exact timings for 2x16GB dual rank 3600Mhz (18-22-22-42) using XMP profile but i get around 66ns latency. have yet to tweak memory timings though, my ol 3300X doesnt want too much modification in IF clock, timings and frequency, hope my current AGESA 1.2.0.0 (beta) and 5800X memory controller i  can get lucky


I suppose many factors can also play a role, for example I will assume your RAMs came paired. I got initially 2 x 8GB,but after a while I have realised that I wanted to add more. So even though got exactly the same 2 x 8GB, unfortunately the second pair came with inferior chips, not speaking that I havent got the 4 x 8Gb paired.. your 66ns default is pretty nice, I guess you could bring it down to 60ns, assuming your timings are also default and you have some headroom.


----------



## biffzinker (Jan 27, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> My 3800X at 42.75/43 gets this for the L3 Cache.
> View attachment 185746


The above is with Command Rate set to Auto.

With GDM on this what I get. Hopefully it doesn't bluescreen again.



That variation for the L3 Cache has me curious.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Jan 27, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Rebooted, set to 3800/1900 - no WHEA thanks to latest AGESA



Are you running AGESA 1.2.0.0 on the January beta bios?

My system is stable on AGESA 1.1.0.0 but it does post random WHEA errors in the logs.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 27, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Are you running AGESA 1.2.0.0 on the January beta bios?
> 
> My system is stable on AGESA 1.1.0.0 but it does post random WHEA errors in the logs.


yes, the new 1.2.0.0 beta

Seems stable with no WHEAs here, and i got WHEAs when i first had the board and tried 3800/1900 out of the box


----------



## ViperXTR (Jan 27, 2021)

Radi_SVK said:


> I suppose many factors can also play a role, for example I will assume your RAMs came paired. I got initially 2 x 8GB,but after a while I have realised that I wanted to add more. So even though got exactly the same 2 x 8GB, unfortunately the second pair came with inferior chips, not speaking that I havent got the 4 x 8Gb paired.. your 66ns default is pretty nice, I guess you could bring it down to 60ns, assuming your timings are also default and you have some headroom.


Yes, its the cheapest 32GB i found so even though its CL18, i just snagged it last time. Ive already fiddled with the timings when i still have my 3300X, on 5800X, not yet. But my experience with 3300X was not very good tweaking the memory frequency and timings it did allow me to clock 1:1 for memory clock and IF clock stable. I assume the IMC on the 5800X would be a little better than the 3300X and can allow hogher frequency and IF clock plus lower timings?
Also, not that im also on dual rank on each stick so it that makes it also faster than most single rank setups



Mussels said:


> yes, the new 1.2.0.0 beta
> 
> Seems stable with no WHEAs here, and i got WHEAs when i first had the board and tried 3800/1900 out of the box


i can't even boot properly my 5800X without having UEFI settings crashing on me or showing me CPU or VGA errors upon boot before AGESA 1.2.0.0 beta, so i didn't get to experience one of those WHEAs


----------



## Alyjen (Jan 27, 2021)

You can ignore this Aida L3 cache reading, it's wrong. 
If you enable F-max enhancer in BIOS it'll go back to what it's supposed to be BUT your boost clocks & performance results will dive 
If you do all core OC vs PBO it'll also be higher (usually) 

I think it's related to how Aida boost cores during these tests or sth, for some motherboards it varies between BIOS versions, for others it doesn't.  Like I said you can ignore this, it's not proving anything.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 27, 2021)

Alyjen said:


> You can ignore this Aida L3 cache reading, it's wrong.
> If you enable F-max enhancer in BIOS it'll go back to what it's supposed to be BUT your boost clocks & performance results will dive
> If you do all core OC vs PBO it'll also be higher (usually)
> 
> I think it's related to how Aida boost cores during these tests or sth, for some motherboards it varies between BIOS versions, for others it doesn't.  Like I said you can ignore this, it's not proving anything.



Wait FMAX kills the boost? i've been flipping that on and off but not sure what it really does, vs what it says it does


----------



## thesmokingman (Jan 27, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Wait FMAX kills the boost? i've been flipping that on and off but not sure what it really does, vs what it says it does


Yea it boosts single thread at the cost of multi thread. It's a pretty useless thing they added.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 27, 2021)

thesmokingman said:


> Yea it boosts single thread at the cost of multi thread. It's a pretty useless thing they added.



Oh thats the opposite of what i thought was written

i *want* single core boost


----------



## thesmokingman (Jan 27, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Oh thats the opposite of what i thought was written
> 
> i *want* single core boost


But you can get that w/o losing boost everywhere else.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 27, 2021)

thesmokingman said:


> But you can get that w/o losing boost everywhere else.



teach me, because i feel like a clumsy idiot and with all these AGESA updates i dont sit at my happy 5050 single core like i did at launch


----------



## thesmokingman (Jan 27, 2021)

Mussels said:


> teach me, because i feel like a clumsy idiot and with all these AGESA updates i dont sit at my happy 5050 single core like i did at launch


I use a simple setup with PBO in advanced mode with limits set to manual. For my 5900x I set PPT, TDC, EDC to 200, and then boost override to 125 for ex or higher. I use different profiles for how much extra and don't forget your PPT setting will need to scale with your override. Thus more override will need higher power limit. That nets me 640 ish on single while not limiting multi. On the 5800x you can target around 160w for ex.


----------



## Alyjen (Jan 28, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Wait FMAX kills the boost? i've been flipping that on and off but not sure what it really does, vs what it says it does


check your scores in something like CB R20, you'll see the instant you enable FMAX multicore performance will go down, for single core it just takes too long to verify so I can't comment first hand, it's just advised to ignore it, especially on Zen 3
but it does fix Aida64 level 3 cache results


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Jan 28, 2021)

Mussels said:


> yes, the new 1.2.0.0 beta
> 
> Seems stable with no WHEAs here, and i got WHEAs when i first had the board and tried 3800/1900 out of the box



Looks like I had the same issue with 3800/1900 causing the WHEA errors. I flashed to the AGESA 1.2.0.0 bios today and it seems to be fixed.

Edit: Yeah that was definitely the problem. I tried 4000/2000 and booted to the desktop, but it was unstable and posting WHEA errors again. I'm calling it good at 3800/1900 lol


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 28, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Looks like I had the same issue with 3800/1900 causing the WHEA errors. I flashed to the AGESA 1.2.0.0 bios today and it seems to be fixed.
> 
> Edit: Yeah that was definitely the problem. I tried 4000/2000 and booted to the desktop, but it was unstable and posting WHEA errors again. I'm calling it good at 3800/1900 lol


Thankfully I’ve managed to avoid that nonsense was a big fear moving from my 3700X to 5600X. Glad 1.2 has eliminated it.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 28, 2021)

I like knowing that i'm pushing the limits of stupidity by sitting at 64GB of ram (too damn much) at 3800/1900, the limit of what these chips can do.
It makes my E-Nips hard.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 31, 2021)

Should I buy a 5600X from AliExpress?


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 31, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Should I buy a 5600X from AliExpress?



Didn't you only just buy the 3600XT?

Even if it's a legit China market retail box, you may have a bunch of hurdles to deal with - namely, possibly paying customs fees (unless you opt for one of the tray SKUs, in which case you definitely have no warranty), AMD may not recognize the warranty here (unlikely but you never know what kind of rep you run into), and if they do they might still redirect you to the China branch in which case you'd have to ship it all the way back.

There's anecdotal evidence here and there that AMD provides global warranty, but I've been burned too many times by companies' "warranty" promises to trust them at face value.

And all the prices on there are still scalpers so unless you feel like paying nearly 5800X MSRP for a 5600X -


----------



## freeagent (Jan 31, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Didn't you only just buy the 3600XT?
> 
> Even if it's a legit China market retail box, you may have a bunch of hurdles to deal with - namely, possibly paying customs fees (unless you opt for one of the tray SKUs, in which case you definitely have no warranty), AMD may not recognize the warranty here, and if they do they may still redirect you to the China branch in which case you'd have to ship it all the way back.


Heheh yes I did.. but I originally wanted the 5600 but “settled” with the XT.. it was the same price as the vanilla. There is nothing wrong with the XT, it’s actually a lot better then I expected if I’m honest.. Good point about warranty and customs.. I would get raked over the coals I’m sure.. dammit. Ahh well.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 31, 2021)

honestly, with "just" a GTX 980 you dont need a faster CPU just yet


----------



## freeagent (Jan 31, 2021)

Yeah I know..

I "just" have a GTX 980 because there is nothing else available around me, and I refuse to pay retail for a used 10 series locally.

And I am not hurting for a GPU bad enough to pay scalper pricing like others are.

But you are right. I will wait.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 31, 2021)

I dont want to mock the 980, i had one until just recently when i sold it to a friend for WoW


It's just that with a 3090 i've been able to test how it scales with various CPU's, and it pretty much boils down to what refresh rate you're gaming at


My "mere" 2700x can handle around 100FPS in modern titles, the 3700x around 125 and the 5800x at 165 (yes they all peaked higher, this is more sustained FPS in DX11/DX12 games)

Your 3600XT is on par with the 3700x, and i just cant see a GTX 980 smashing 120+FPS in modern games except at minimum settings


----------



## freeagent (Jan 31, 2021)

I know I totally get what you are saying.

I told myself I would move to AMD when they were beating Intel again, that was when I left 939.

When Ryzen 3 came that was it for me, I saw the success of their previous gens and was ready to move in.

Like I said, its still a good CPU, its just not the one I wanted.. I could have got the 3700x or higher, but got this one because its just a placeholder.

I would just need a cheap board for this CPU and my kids would have a modern PC to use instead of my old Z77 and X58.

I might just cave and get an Nvidia 10 series or better


----------



## ViperXTR (Jan 31, 2021)

in my case, i like playing around with console emulation aside from regular gaming, RPCS3 and RyujinX/Yuzu in particular is much more CPU bound and can give the necessary brute force to render it fast enough.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 31, 2021)

I just like having a fast calculator.


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 31, 2021)

Almost shat my pants yesterday as I rebooted my PC normally and nothing happened, CPU debug led just kept on shining. Seems that the bios got corrupted as I pulled the CPU/GPU/RAM away, put a biosfile on a usb drive and flashed it. Now seems to work like before.

The bios flash button kicks ass.


----------



## ViperXTR (Jan 31, 2021)

Did you have to remove the CPU, ram and graphics card when you do built in flash button?


Chloe Price said:


> Almost shat my pants yesterday as I rebooted my PC normally and nothing happened, CPU debug led just kept on shining. Seems that the bios got corrupted as I pulled the CPU/GPU/RAM away, put a biosfile on a usb drive and flashed it. Now seems to work like before.
> 
> The bios flash button kicks ass.


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 31, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


> Did you have to remove the CPU, ram and graphics card when you do built in flash button?


Dunno did I HAVE to but I did it anyway as I've read that you're supposed to have no components on the board when flashing with the button.


----------



## ViperXTR (Jan 31, 2021)

Chloe Price said:


> Dunno did I HAVE to but I did it anyway as I've read that you're supposed to have no components on the board when flashing with the button.


Either way, good to know to have such function, it's available on most new boards these days, just in case since I'm currently using a beta bios


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 31, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


> Either way, good to know to have such function, it's available on most new boards these days, just in case since I'm currently using a beta bios


I had a beta bios when this started fucking around, now I have the newest non-beta. I also dropped clocks from 4.4 to 4.2 as I can run this on much lower voltage.


----------



## ViperXTR (Jan 31, 2021)

Chloe Price said:


> I had a beta bios when this started fucking around, now I have the newest non-beta. I also dropped clocks from 4.4 to 4.2 as I can run this on much lower voltage.


Strangely enough, the newest non beta gave e headaches and the beta one provided me with the most stability


----------



## Mussels (Jan 31, 2021)

Chloe Price said:


> Dunno did I HAVE to but I did it anyway as I've read that you're supposed to have no components on the board when flashing with the button.


you can leave all the parts on to use the flasher


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 31, 2021)

Mussels said:


> you can leave all the parts on to use the flasher


Okay, good to know if I need to do it in the future.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Feb 2, 2021)

I'm so DONE with Ryzen overclocking.















Backed off all my memory overclocks and curve optimizer undervolts. Pretty much back to running default settings lol


----------



## Alyjen (Feb 2, 2021)

lucky you, I'd not be able to go stock with memory, I'd have to sell it and get some boring 3600CL16 kit..


----------



## dont whant to set it"' (Feb 2, 2021)

@PooPipeBoy Cheer up ! here are some of my all-core oc results.
Its as far as the ~ £25 cooler on it can manage.


----------



## jjnissanpatfan (Feb 3, 2021)

Starting to learn the steps to overclock...but do not know if the effort is worth the reward.  At stock speeds this machine does what it supposed to. Is hours or time worth the 10-15% increase? Also no matter what speed or timings the L3 cache seems off?


----------



## ViperXTR (Feb 3, 2021)

so CTR 2.0 is out, get tweakin boys


----------



## tabascosauz (Feb 3, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> I'm so DONE with Ryzen overclocking.
> 
> View attachment 186632
> 
> ...



WHEA ID 18...cache hierarchy error or bus/interconnect? As long as your mem is stable and it's not bus/interconnect WHEAs you probably can keep that profile, maybe the curve optimizer still needs some tweaking.

I feel the frustration, though.



ViperXTR said:


> so CTR 2.0 is out, get tweakin boys



dammit



Why does Renoir even need a Vermeer AGESA?? Off to download the beta BIOS I guess


----------



## ViperXTR (Feb 3, 2021)

Yus, MSI just out the non beta 1.2.0.0, i wonder if i should get this if my beta 1.2.0.0 is stable


----------



## tabascosauz (Feb 3, 2021)

I already had my suspicions about the reliability of CTR's recommendations but this is just too good. 4.075GHz @ 1.35V is its recommendation? HAHAHA oh it's definitely a bronze sample, but I can already do at least 4.2GHz stable at that Vcore



thanks for the laughs 1usmus - if it doesn't properly support Renoir, maybe you should leave it that way


----------



## ViperXTR (Feb 3, 2021)

I guess im not one of those with CCD2 active?


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Feb 3, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> WHEA ID 18...cache hierarchy error or bus/interconnect? As long as your mem is stable and it's not bus/interconnect WHEAs you probably can keep that profile, maybe the curve optimizer still needs some tweaking.
> 
> I feel the frustration, though.



Damn, I didn't check. Not sure on that, I cleared the event log to see if there's any new WHEAs. To be fair, I did have the curve optimizer set at full whack with a negative 25 on all cores. I thought it was stable because there were no issues or WHEA log entries for a number of days, then it just crashed out of nowhere. I think I'm currently running negative 10 on all cores and it seems to be fine.


----------



## tabascosauz (Feb 3, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Damn, I didn't check. Not sure on that, I cleared the event log to see if there's any new WHEAs. To be fair, I did have the curve optimizer set at full whack with a negative 25 on all cores. I thought it was stable because there were no issues or WHEA log entries for a number of days, then it just crashed out of nowhere. I think I'm currently running negative 10 on all cores and it seems to be fine.



What stress tests did you use to verify the CPU overclock? I'm not particularly fond of CPU overclocking on AMD because OCCT isn't nearly as tough as I'd like, LinX refuses to run on my 4650G, leaving me with just P95 and IBT (sadly).

On the memory side of things CPU-related (UMC or IF, not the RAM itself) instability can manifest suddenly and without warning. I've gone for months on end at 3733 with any indication that the IF can't handle it (or at most just one or two correctable ID 19 events) only for it to crash suddenly, refuse to POST, or force me to reflash my BIOS.


----------



## ViperXTR (Feb 5, 2021)

New chipset drivers


----------



## Mussels (Feb 5, 2021)




----------



## dont whant to set it"' (Feb 6, 2021)

So I've change the cpu cooler to a custom liquid agent cooling loop. At first , it may seem that that the former cooler may still have a punch in it for attaining higher all-core clocks due to changing the VDDR Cpu curent capability to 110% in the bios yelded stability, therefore I will investigate later how much further it will be able to tame it , come its time to be mounted back.

Anyhow, after coming across this newfound ''arguing over the internet'' Intel lying about their CPUs' TDP: who's not surprised? | Page 10 | TechPowerUp Forums I simply went ahead a couple of days back and ''diverted funds'' form my ''beer fund'' to get a clamp meter.

Measurements done on both the bundles of wires , +VDC and com. The lowest figure of the two was measured on the Negative(ground /common) witch means there is current from other ground connections to the motherboard from the powersupply, thus implying the GND plane of the ATX 12v and EPS 12v are connected with be it the ATX or trough the PCIe 8 pin power or both(just did a quick check , the difference of current is flowing trough the Graphics card , 1.45A ).

1.45A(PCIe)+8.29A(ATX&EPS)=9.74A (trough the GND)
~300mA(PCIe) + 9.48A(ATX&EPS)=9.78A (trough the Positive) [~ because of polling rate is fast and I picked the higher discernable value]

Clock me silly, its the total power draw not just the CPU but the CPU VRM as well.


----------



## R00kie (Feb 7, 2021)

Just checked my 5600x in CTR, and it looks to be unique 

Check yours, guys.

As far as I've read, these are just cut down 5900X/5950X (depending on what CPU you have) with one CCD disabled, and in no way sharing cores between CCD's


----------



## trickson (Feb 7, 2021)

Amazing Asus TUF pair up with this Ryzen 7 3700X 4.4GHz fully stable all core Ram at full speed as well! 








Going for 4.5Ghz tomorrow.
For now I am just absolutely AMAZED at the sheer speed of this system!


----------



## biffzinker (Feb 7, 2021)

gdallsk said:


> Check yours, guys.
> 
> As far as I've read, these are just cut down 5900X/5950X (depending on what CPU you have) with one CCD disabled, and in no way sharing cores between CCD's


One of the eight core dies on the package is disabled?


----------



## tabascosauz (Feb 7, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> One of the eight core dies on the package is disabled?











						Some AMD 5600X and 5800X CPUs come with two CCDs - KitGuru
					

The creator of CTR and DRAM Calculator for Ryzen has found that some Ryzen 5 5600X and Ryzen 7 5800X




					www.kitguru.net
				




So far it looks like it's just an interesting tidbit and nothing more, as there doesn't seem to be any indication that it's not fused, and doesn't help thermals either with them being chiplets. Also don't think the firmware and Windows scheduler are prepared to accept heterogeneous CCDs.

But one can hope, right?


----------



## R00kie (Feb 7, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> One of the eight core dies on the package is disabled?


it is indeed, in the case of a 5600X, it is a 5900X that has failed the QC stage, the failed CCD disabled and has been rebadged as a 5600X


----------



## freeagent (Feb 7, 2021)

Why wait till tomorrow? We believe in you man


----------



## trickson (Feb 7, 2021)

gdallsk said:


> it is indeed, in the case of a 5600X, it is a 5900X that has failed the QC stage, the failed CCD disabled and has been rebadged as a 5600X


I tell you what they are still AMAZING Ryzen Chips are just so good fun fast and just exciting to play around with. 
I almost got the 5800X But didn't want to wait to save the cash up so I got the 3700X still just AMAZING!


----------



## biffzinker (Feb 7, 2021)

trickson said:


> I tell you what they are still AMAZING Ryzen Chips are just so good fun fast and just exciting to play around with.
> I almost got the 5800X But didn't want to wait to save the cash up so I got the 3700X still just AMAZING!


Might want to drop back on the voltage or the 3700X is going to end up in a degraded state fast. Even 1.28 Vcore has caused degradation in a few months for some. Most voltage you want to push is 1.25.


----------



## R00kie (Feb 7, 2021)

trickson said:


> I tell you what they are still AMAZING Ryzen Chips are just so good fun fast and just exciting to play around with.
> I almost got the 5800X But didn't want to wait to save the cash up so I got the 3700X still just AMAZING!


The funny thing is that this build was supposed to be a secondary PC for VR, but since its on par or beating my 9900K in most of the games that I play, that it has been promoted to the main rig and fully watercooled 

it is also a lot cooler to run, and its a lot more efficient than the 9900K
All I had to do is stick the PBO2 in manual, set the curve optimizer to -15, and its chugging along at 4.65GHz most of the times.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Feb 7, 2021)

Still getting the random WHEA. What a shame. Right now I'm on AGESA 1.2.0.0 and I reset the BIOS to only run XMP at 3600/1800 and nothing else.





At least that means it probably wasn't an overclocking instability issue. Not like WHEAs are a huge deal for everyday tasks, but it'd just be so nice to set up important online interviews without having to worry about random crashes. Lately I've been using my phone for Zoom correspondence lol


----------



## tabascosauz (Feb 7, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Still getting the random WHEA. What a shame. Right now I'm on AGESA 1.2.0.0 and I reset the BIOS to only run XMP at 3600/1800 and nothing else.
> 
> View attachment 187378
> 
> At least that means it probably wasn't an overclocking instability issue. Not like WHEAs are a huge deal for everyday tasks, but it'd just be so nice to set up important online interviews without having to worry about random crashes. Lately I've been using my phone for Zoom correspondence lol



Tried disabling C-states to rule out insufficient idle voltage? I think on Asus BIOS there's only DF Cstates for the Infinity Fabric, not sure if the cores have their own standalone setting. Global C-state Control to kill two birds with one stone, can find them all easily using the search function.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Feb 7, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Tried disabling C-states to rule out insufficient idle voltage? I think on Asus BIOS there's only DF Cstates for the Infinity Fabric, not sure if the cores have their own standalone setting. Global C-state Control to kill two birds with one stone, can find them all easily using the search function.



Yeah it turns out that under Advanced and AMD CBS options there's a Global C-State Control that I disabled just now. I'll clear the log again and see if that resolves it. Sounds like it might, because often the WHEA errors are recorded when the system is powered up from sleep mode.


----------



## tabascosauz (Feb 7, 2021)

Turns out there are some gains to be had for Renoir on AGESA 1200. ~0.5ns in AIDA, better Copy, ~2sec in membench, ~100pts memory in Geekbench. And it's doing the bullshit L3 read speed less often now. No gains on Matisse so far.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Feb 7, 2021)

gdallsk said:


> View attachment 187371
> 
> Just checked my 5600x in CTR, and it looks to be unique
> 
> ...



What does the CCX layout show up as? Makes me also wonder if the amount of cache is any different.

These were my screenshots:


----------



## R00kie (Feb 7, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> What does the CCX layout show up as? Makes me also wonder if the amount of cache is any different.
> 
> These were my screenshots:
> 
> ...






Same as yours.
Since the second CCD just sits there, it wont come up on anything other than that piece of text at the bottom.
The cache amount is still the same


----------



## Mussels (Feb 8, 2021)

I wonder if that makes yours easier to cool, even if the cores arent active they are increasing your contact area to the heatsink


----------



## biffzinker (Feb 8, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I wonder if that makes yours easier to cool, even if the cores arent active they are increasing your contact area to the heatsink


I don’t imagine there would be any difference unless there was 4/3 cores active on the other CCD die. The chiplets are spaced apart.


----------



## Mussels (Feb 8, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> I don’t imagine there would be any difference unless there was 4/3 cores active on the other CCD die. The chiplets are spaced apart.


heats gotta travel back into the PCB and up via the inactive die, its not being produced there bure surely somes gotta pass that way

about equal to slapping a fan on the back of your motherboard, SOME heat goes that way


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Feb 8, 2021)

It looks like any Zen 3 processor can max out an RTX 3090 at 1080p. We probably won't start seeing major CPU bottlenecks on the 5600X until the next generation of graphics cards.


----------



## HD64G (Feb 12, 2021)

Some findings from my system's performance testing with SAM feature on and off: https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/amd-radeon-smart-access-memory.274803/post-4456466


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## PooPipeBoy (Feb 14, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Tried disabling C-states to rule out insufficient idle voltage? I think on Asus BIOS there's only DF Cstates for the Infinity Fabric, not sure if the cores have their own standalone setting. Global C-state Control to kill two birds with one stone, can find them all easily using the search function.



The WHEA errors seem to be finally gone. I think it's been a week and I haven't seen any in the logs. So yeah, disabling global C-states did the trick! Thanks for the tip.


----------



## R00kie (Feb 14, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> The WHEA errors seem to be finally gone. I think it's been a week and I haven't seen any in the logs. So yeah, disabling global C-states did the trick! Thanks for the tip.


might also be worth updating your BIOS, Asus have released their non beta BIOS'es just a couple of days ago, the beta's weren't very stable for me, same WHEA errors, but so far so good.
They do mention improved system stability.


----------



## tabascosauz (Feb 14, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> The WHEA errors seem to be finally gone. I think it's been a week and I haven't seen any in the logs. So yeah, disabling global C-states did the trick! Thanks for the tip.





gdallsk said:


> might also be worth updating your BIOS, Asus have released their non beta BIOS'es just a couple of days ago, the beta's weren't very stable for me, same WHEA errors, but so far so good.
> They do mention improved system stability.



Good to hear. If previously the WHEA errors were rampant and on a daily basis, I'd say you probably fixed it for now.

There's *some* merit to fixing stability through AGESA, but I'd go as far as to say that the lower quality or degraded chips are unlikely to be swayed, and more likely to require permanently disabled C-states to function properly, as it's unlikely that a vendor will increase default idle voltage across the board to accommodate that lowest common denominator of silicon.

I didn't used to need to touch C-states, but my 3700X from launch is at the point where it needs DF C-states permanently disabled or it'll throw WHEA errors, reboot, or occasionally refuse to POST. I've never gone beyond running 3733 daily, I've never all-core OC'd beyond 4.0@1.195V. It's the same deal on my B550M TUF and B550I AX.

Doesn't instill much confidence in the longevity of current Ryzen. Not even so much the 7nm chiplets, as the I/O die and substrate linkages.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Feb 15, 2021)

gdallsk said:


> might also be worth updating your BIOS, Asus have released their non beta BIOS'es just a couple of days ago, the beta's weren't very stable for me, same WHEA errors, but so far so good.
> They do mention improved system stability.



I didn't have any stability issues on the 1801 beta bios (which Asus have subsequently deleted....I wish they wouldn't do that in case I wanted to flash back to it later). But I've been waiting for a non-beta bios for two months now, feels like forever lol I updated to the 1804 non-beta and it seems to be running great.



tabascosauz said:


> Good to hear. If previously the WHEA errors were rampant and on a daily basis, I'd say you probably fixed it for now.
> 
> There's *some* merit to fixing stability through AGESA, but I'd go as far as to say that the lower quality or degraded chips are unlikely to be swayed, and more likely to require permanently disabled C-states to function properly, as it's unlikely that a vendor will increase default idle voltage across the board to accommodate that lowest common denominator of silicon.
> 
> ...



Man that would suck if they degrade over time. It makes a good case for undervolting though, especially since overclocking seems to be hardly worth it anymore. The stock voltage on my 5600X goes up past 1.4V and I feel like that's way too much.


----------



## biffzinker (Feb 15, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> The stock voltage on my 5600X goes up past 1.4V and I feel like that's way too much.


It only does that though during a single/dual core boosting.


----------



## freeagent (Feb 15, 2021)

Just curious.. at stock with PBO enabled, 3 of my 6 cores boost up to 4625MHz. But when I try to manually set 4600 in the bios, and go to load up my trusty testing app and hit go, the pc will reboot after a few seconds, its like I crossed a magical current domain and it clips and reboots. Voltage doesn't help, LLC doesn't help. I do only have 1 CPU 8 pin installed, I cant use the other 8 pin because it wont separate to four pin, and I am thinking the CPU is not getting enough juice.. Does it sound like I am on the right track? The CPU will load windows at 4700 all core manual.. so its not like a frequency wall.


----------



## tabascosauz (Feb 15, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Just curious.. at stock with PBO enabled, 3 of my 6 cores boost up to 4625MHz. But when I try to manually set 4600 in the bios, and go to load up my trusty testing app and hit go, the pc will reboot after a few seconds, its like I crossed a magical current domain and it clips and reboots. Voltage doesn't help, LLC doesn't help. I do only have 1 CPU 8 pin installed, I cant use the other 8 pin because it wont separate to four pin, and I am thinking the CPU is not getting enough juice.. Does it sound like I am on the right track? The CPU will load windows at 4700 all core manual.. so its not like a frequency wall.



No, it's most definitely a frequency/voltage wall...lol. That's exactly what a wall looks like. 

I can "run" 4400MHz on my 4650G all day long if booting into Windows is a benchmark for stability......it literally isn't possible to run any actual CPU stress test (no, Cinebench is not a stress test) at those all-core speeds. If degradation wasn't a thing, I could overvolt it to the moon if I wanted to. It will not be stable even for 1 second. 

Booting into Windows really doesn't take much more stability than booting. A bit more so for RAM overclocks, but CPU overclocks not so much.

Where are you seeing 4625MHz? If it's HWInfo, go to settings (right click taskbar icon) and enable Snapshot CPU Polling, then see what kind of speeds it's achieving after you've used your comp for a few hours. 4625MHz literally means nothing unless you're running a single-threaded benchmark and the loaded core shows 4625MHz continuously under Effective Clock. "Core Clock" may as well be smoke and mirrors due to the granularity of Ryzen clock control.


----------



## freeagent (Feb 15, 2021)

Ok that makes sense. Yeah the 4625 is just single core stuff I guess. Under the hardest loads at stock it will hover between 4275-4300. 

That snip is regular use.


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## tabascosauz (Feb 15, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Ok that makes sense. Yeah the 4625 is just single core stuff I guess. Under the hardest loads at stock it will hover between 4275-4300.
> 
> That snip is regular use.
> 
> View attachment 188416



If you're aware of the CPPC core quality order already, you can pretty much hide all the Core Clock and Core Ratio fields and you won't be missing out on any useful information (unless you check Snapshot Polling like I said, makes it a bit more accurate). 

If you're not hitting close to 4.6GHz in Effective Clock in any core during your gaming or benchmarking, then 4.6GHz is meaningless for actual performance. If you regularly hit about 4.55GHz or higher effective, then the 4.625GHz might actually not be too far off.


----------



## freeagent (Feb 15, 2021)

Aida shows 4475 in most of its boxes, its pretty close.. I get a faster pi time at stock lol.. I think..

Ill try it out for sure, but these are the stock numbers I have seen through the past 4 bios updates, vcore is under control now and doesn't spike up to 1.5+v on individual cores anymore.


----------



## tabascosauz (Feb 15, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Aida shows 4475 in most of its boxes, its pretty close.. I get a faster pi time at stock lol.. I think..
> 
> Ill try it out for sure, but these are the stock numbers I have seen through the past 4 bios updates, vcore is under control now and doesn't spike up to 1.5+v on individual cores anymore.



Funny you mention that, that's basically been my experience with PBO since 2019. Even the profiles I make that are verifiably faster in benchmarks have questionable performance in actual games. COD:MW gets noticeably more stuttery with any PBO settings. Before you ask, I have a MP custom game preset made just for testing this over the past year.

And so I've been running a stock 3700X for quite some time. Smooth as a baby's bottom, even though the clocks might not look as good.


----------



## freeagent (Feb 15, 2021)

Oh yeah man. I am kicking myself a little bit for not stretching to a 3700x but I honestly thought I would be rockin zen 3 now.. I only got the XT because it was the same price as the vanilla, and I had just watched the XT vs 10600K video from GN haha. No biggie.. not as much horsepower as the bigger guys but it’s still pretty sweet. I am running the newest bios for my board and I am really happy with things. It’s nice to see a platform mature a little. Now I’m just waiting to buy a GPU as the CPU isn’t really a high priority anymore..


----------



## tabascosauz (Feb 16, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Oh yeah man. I am kicking myself a little bit for not stretching to a 3700x but I honestly thought I would be rockin zen 3 now.. I only got the XT because it was the same price as the vanilla, and I had just watched the XT vs 10600K video from GN haha. No biggie.. not as much horsepower as the bigger guys but it’s still pretty sweet. I am running the newest bios for my board and I am really happy with things. It’s nice to see a platform mature a little. Now I’m just waiting to buy a GPU as the CPU isn’t really a high priority anymore..



Didn't know you were in Manitoba.

I think you made the right choice haha. I happened across a Memory Express flyer about 2 weeks ago, $469 3700X. I paid $459 in August 2019......for what was a hot new product at the time...amazing "pricing" in 2021

And then there's my vaporware 5900X on order since November...from how ME and CC are going I don't expect to see it within the first three quarters of this year. Dunno whether to buy a "reasonably" priced scalper 5600X, tough it out and keep waiting on 5900X, or just stick with the ailing 3700X and buy a M27Q monitor instead.

I wasn't feeling so great about my GPU purchase 16 months ago (thought it was a waste of money, and immediately had to RMA it once for coil whine), but with each passing month the absolute comedy show that is GPU availability in Canada is making me feel better and better about my 2060S FE.


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## PooPipeBoy (Feb 16, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> It only does that though during a single/dual core boosting.



True, but I just dial it down a bit anyway. I'm testing out a negative 30 curve optimizer on all cores and stability seems good. Now it's around 1.32V single core and 1.125V multi core.


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## Mussels (Feb 16, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> True, but I just dial it down a bit anyway. I'm testing out a negative 30 curve optimizer on all cores and stability seems good. Now it's around 1.32V single core and 1.125V multi core.


jelly, some of mine only do -5

i got the first 3 done and then we had 35C ambients so i gave up on anything that made more heat for a while


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## PooPipeBoy (Feb 16, 2021)

Mussels said:


> jelly, some of mine only do -5
> 
> i got the first 3 done and then we had 35C ambients so i gave up on anything that made more heat for a while



I wonder if that's to do with the 100MHz extra frequency you get with the 5800X? Also I'm not running any frequency offset, just the standard 4.6GHz max boost.

My Zalman ZM-700SV power supply has copious amounts of ripple (120mV on the 12V rail at full load) and so it's a small wonder in itself as to how it can be stable with a full bore undervolt.


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## Mussels (Feb 16, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> I wonder if that's to do with the 100MHz extra frequency you get with the 5800X? Also I'm not running any frequency offset, just the standard 4.6GHz max boost.
> 
> My Zalman ZM-700SV power supply has copious amounts of ripple (120mV on the 12V rail at full load) and so it's a small wonder in itself as to how it can be stable with a full bore undervolt.


I'm running the +200 PBO offset, so i'm lucky to get any negative at all, IMO


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## Calmmo (Feb 16, 2021)

I'm waiting for giga to release a full 1.2.0.0 to finally try pbo, don't trust the current alpha bios enough to try anything.. fancy, altho appart from one funky boot during which bios memory was wiped (??!!) it's been stable for a few weeks now. In my limited time testing for about an hour, +200 was always inferior to +100 and +150 as far as bench scores go.


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## freeagent (Feb 16, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Didn't know you were in Manitoba.
> 
> I think you made the right choice haha. I happened across a Memory Express flyer about 2 weeks ago, $469 3700X. I paid $459 in August 2019......for what was a hot new product at the time...amazing "pricing" in 2021
> 
> ...


I thought I had everything filled out, I guess not! 

I think so too! At the time of purchase I think 3700x was 439 and 309 for the XT, which last I looked was 500 from 3rd party.. Crazy.

I would be happy with a 2060S right now 

I also did as you asked and let it run overnight with a load on it.. I just reinstalled windows nice to see cores dropping down to 2.2 again 

Its cold outside so you can see the furnace at play..


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## tabascosauz (Feb 17, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I thought I had everything filled out, I guess not!
> 
> I think so too! At the time of purchase I think 3700x was 439 and 309 for the XT, which last I looked was 500 from 3rd party.. Crazy.
> 
> ...



Well, if you want a mediocre 3700X you know where to find me  as if on cue, ME called me to tell me my 5900X finally showed up after 3 months.

They did previously say that 5600X and 5800X availability is a bit better. I guess the online stock indicator just isn't updated very often. Been hearing stories here and there of lucky stock-watcher folks getting lucky and jumping the queue to pick up 5000 chips.


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## freeagent (Feb 17, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Well, if you want a mediocre 3700X you know where to find me  as if on cue, ME called me to tell me my 5900X finally showed up after 3 months.
> 
> They did previously say that 5600X and 5800X availability is a bit better. I guess the online stock indicator just isn't updated very often. Been hearing stories here and there of lucky stock-watcher folks getting lucky and jumping the queue to pick up 5000 chips.


Awesome man congratulations! That does sound tempting.. Enjoy your new toy!

Also, I forgot to mention.. since updating to Bios 1805 my Aura lights are fixed and the Intel Lan connects right away after boot or sleep, instead of a 38s wait.. pretty happy!


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## tabascosauz (Feb 19, 2021)

Leaving the 5900X completely stock, as it's my main rig. It's still really impressive.

I wanted manageable thermals, so from the temps it looks like spending the extra $130 over the 8-core was worth it. Hell, the damn 5900X often runs cooler than the 3700X!



69C in CPU-Z, 69C in every run of R23_. _All on just an iPPC'd NH-C14S.

 

And the quality is good too. Core 0 and Core 1 are the best 2 cores, hitting over 4.9GHz effective clock in tests. I guess strict binning for CCD1 on the dual-CCDs really is paying off, even if it's absolutely slaughtering availability for those two CPUs.





freeagent said:


> Awesome man congratulations! That does sound tempting.. Enjoy your new toy!
> 
> Also, I forgot to mention.. since updating to Bios 1805 my Aura lights are fixed and the Intel Lan connects right away after boot or sleep, instead of a 38s wait.. pretty happy!



It sounds like Asus changed something in the most recent AGESA 1200 BIOSes. On one of the memory training reboots it gave me a message that it was updating Aura firmware for a few seconds. No problems so far, but I think the new Aura update broke my G.skill RGB software so now I have uncontrollable rainbow puke on my RAM again.

By the way, 5900X/5950X owners is it normal to see the crappy CCD consistently 3 degrees hotter than the good CCD, at the same clocks?


----------



## freeagent (Feb 19, 2021)

Man that is sweet, congrats! I had problems with Aura when I used it, the VRM light would do its own thing, very annoying. The only thing that fixed it was when the Aura firmware updated. Happened twice. So this time, it will have to be rainbow puke or off in the bios. I didn't buy the Royals for the lights, I bought them for their "potential" but the G.Skill software works "ok" for me, no real problems.

Cant wait to get a hold of one, fantastic CPU to cap off AM4.


----------



## windwhirl (Feb 19, 2021)

AMD taking notice of a relatively important amount of users having trouble with USB connectivity on 500-series motherboards:

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/lnmet0


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## Space Lynx (Feb 19, 2021)

windwhirl said:


> AMD taking notice of a relatively important amount of users having trouble with USB connectivity on 500-series motherboards:
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/lnmet0




interesting, haven't had a single issue in that regard.


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## KainXS (Feb 19, 2021)

I'm struggling with whea's when playing beatsaber, I play for about 30 minutes and I crash out with a whea on the cpu every single session. I tried CTR and can find nothing wrong and memtest and can find nothing wrong, what do you guys do with whea's on ryzen.


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## Space Lynx (Feb 19, 2021)

KainXS said:


> I'm struggling with whea's when playing beatsaber, I play for about 30 minutes and I crash out with a whea on the cpu every single session. I tried CTR and can find nothing wrong and memtest and can find nothing wrong, what do you guys do with whea's on ryzen.



I have the same mobo as you, I would get crashed if I enabled PBO. disable PBO in BIOS and leave cpu at stock. see if it crashed after that.  also is the ram QVL for that mobo? double check. and if it is then turn on xmp, if its not then use the "memory try it" feature. i use the memory try it feature and its worked out great for me.  if you get crashes still after that, lower the memory try it feature a little bit.


----------



## Mussels (Feb 20, 2021)

KainXS said:


> I'm struggling with whea's when playing beatsaber, I play for about 30 minutes and I crash out with a whea on the cpu every single session. I tried CTR and can find nothing wrong and memtest and can find nothing wrong, what do you guys do with whea's on ryzen.


beat saber aint that demanding, you're having instability at idle/low load - so tweak your voltages higher


----------



## ViperXTR (Feb 20, 2021)




----------



## Octopuss (Feb 20, 2021)

What are these bronze sample, silver sample things in CTR? What does it tell me?


----------



## windwhirl (Feb 20, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> What are these bronze sample, silver sample things in CTR? What does it tell me?


The quality of the silicon. Better samples overclock better.


----------



## Octopuss (Feb 20, 2021)

I guess most people have bronze then


----------



## windwhirl (Feb 20, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> I guess most people have bronze then


You just read a guy with a bronze lol


----------



## Octopuss (Feb 20, 2021)

Well that's why I asked, CTR gave me that result.
but considering I am only interested in undervolting, I probably don't need to care.


----------



## RealKGB (Feb 20, 2021)

Out of curiosity, is anyone else running B350 with Zen 2?
I have an ASUS ROG Strix B350-F Gaming with a Ryzen 5 3600.
Originally had a 1600X, but... well... let's just say that said 1600X has problems fitting.


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## biffzinker (Feb 20, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> Well that's why I asked, CTR gave me that result.
> but considering I am only interested in undervolting, I probably don't need to care.


Might want to stay away from CTR 2.0 because of a bug that rams 1.55 volts through a Zen 3 chip such as your 5800.


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 20, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> Might want to stay away from CTR 2.0 because of a bug that rams 1.55 volts through a Zen 3 chip such as your 5800.



nice heads up... glad I never tried it.  yikes.


----------



## freeagent (Feb 20, 2021)

A couple of bios versions ago my board would feed my CPU up to 1.55v. No wonder these things were degrading. I can pretty much squeeze max performance out of mine at 1.268- 1.337v. Quite a large difference.. now 1.45 is about as high as it goes if I leave it to do it’s thing. I could run it at 4600 but it needs more than 1.4v and it doesn’t like that too much.


----------



## biffzinker (Feb 20, 2021)

Yeah yikes, accelerated degradation. There's been reports on twitter, and reddit of chips that had single core boost to 5 GHz that are no longer capable of such.










Also the Prime95 stress test was configured for a light AVX workload not good for finding instability.

Passing it along from @Xx Tek Tip xX that mentioned it.


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 20, 2021)

freeagent said:


> A couple of bios versions ago my board would feed my CPU up to 1.55v. No wonder these things were degrading. I can pretty much squeeze max performance out of mine at 1.268- 1.337v. Quite a large difference.. now 1.45 is about as high as it goes if I leave it to do it’s thing. I could run it at 4600 but it needs more than 1.4v and it doesn’t like that too much.



you might have just lost the silicon lottery is all, but not a big deal.  I have been rock solid stable for months now at 1.360v 4625 all core no downclocking, LLC mode 4 on x570 tomahawk.  great temps and no crashes.  i don't feel the need to go back to ryzen master auto OC or do that other program. prob will leave it like this for as long as it lets me.  /shrug i really don't think 1.360v is all that bad i do have -25 offset as well in BIOS, so its actually running slightly less than that. also I OC the SoC to 1.150.


----------



## tabascosauz (Feb 20, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> Yeah yikes, accelerated degradation. There's been reports on twitter, and reddit of chips that had single core boost to 5 GHz that are no longer capable of such.
> View attachment 189202
> View attachment 189200
> 
> ...



CTR 2.0 is proving to be a pretty big bruh moment if its Diagnostic results for my 4650G and the other anecdotal horror story about what Tune does to a 4650G in the space of 30 minutes (something like 1.45V all-core) are to be believed.

Where's stilt when we need his guidance on voltage behaviour?


----------



## freeagent (Feb 20, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> you might have just lost the silicon lottery is all, but not a big deal.  I have been rock solid stable for months now at 1.360v 4625 all core no downclocking, LLC mode 4 on x570 tomahawk.  great temps and no crashes.  i don't feel the need to go back to ryzen master auto OC or do that other program. prob will leave it like this for as long as it lets me.  /shrug i really don't think 1.360v is all that bad i do have -25 offset as well in BIOS, so its actually running slightly less than that. also I OC the SoC to 1.150.


Indeed, I’ve considered that and accepted the loss as it isn’t the first and won’t be the last 

Looking back over the years with overclocking, I’ve noticed that some chips love voltage, and some chips hate it. I usually get the ones that love the volts but not the clocks  Their are a couple of voltages I haven't touched on my XT maybe I should quit being a pussy about it 

But still, I don’t own zen 3 but if they were getting stabbed with 1.55v I could see them not being happy with that. I didn’t like 1.55v on 32nm let alone 7nm.


----------



## Octopuss (Feb 20, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> Might want to stay away from CTR 2.0 because of a bug that rams 1.55 volts through a Zen 3 chip such as your 5800.


I only did the diagnosis or whatever is it called to see what my sample was. I presume it didn't apply any settings?


----------



## r3volt97 (Feb 21, 2021)

Hey y'all , looking to at what should i pair my 5950X + RX 6800 Red Devil with , all i need is mobo , psu and a watercooling kit as i've almost got everything ready , the case would be a Jonsbo mod 3 if i could find any in stock . My aim :

Asus Rog Crosshair Vlll Dark Hero OR       Aorus x570 Master

Seasonic PRIME TX 1000 watt       OR        Asus Rog Thor 1200 watt 


This build is gonna be a gaming / editing rig , if i cannot get the custom waterloop in time imma buy the Ryujin 360 and have everything set for the moment , looking forward hearing from you lot


----------



## tabascosauz (Feb 21, 2021)

r3volt97 said:


> Hey y'all , looking to at what should i pair my 5950X + RX 6800 Red Devil with , all i need is mobo , psu and a watercooling kit as i've almost got everything ready , the case would be a Jonsbo mod 3 if i could find any in stock . My aim :
> 
> Asus Rog Crosshair Vlll Dark Hero OR       Aorus x570 Master
> 
> ...



Board:

Depends on if it's a rev.1.0 or rev.1.2 Master. iirc the newer revisions were released to bring the X570 up to the level of the B550, which has a more optimized memory topology (think the caps layout changed and they added shielding for the memory trace plane). Not that it should be any difference for your average 3200-3600 kit, but between the same 2 Masters obviously you would want the newer version. Otherwise, personal preference as to style and opinion on the chipset fan - the X570 Master has physical switches so the dual BIOS is not a problem.

I like (and I think most would agree) the Asus BIOS for being more intuitive, but if you have the basic knowledge not to need the handholding, the Gigabyte BIOS is fine. And on the Master you get the redundancy of dual BIOS without the stupid automatic dual BIOS switching logic.

PSU:

The Thor 1200 is a modified Seasonic PRIME so essentially you are paying for the super extra, blingy OLED screen on it. I know for _*certain *_that I would MUCH rather deal with Seasonic's great support team than ASUS support (yuck) in the event that I need help, or need an RMA.

hold up, why list the Dark Hero in your specs if you haven't bought it yet?


----------



## r3volt97 (Feb 21, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Board:
> 
> Depends on if it's a rev.1.0 or rev.1.2 Master. iirc the newer revisions were released to bring the X570 up to the level of the B550, which has a more optimized memory topology (think the caps layout changed and they added shielding for the memory trace plane). Not that it should be any difference for your average 3200-3600 kit, but between the same 2 Masters obviously you would want the newer version. Otherwise, personal preference as to style and opinion on the chipset fan - the X570 Master has physical switches so the dual BIOS is not a problem.
> 
> ...


i haven't got it , it was from last month when i last edited my specs


----------



## ViperXTR (Feb 22, 2021)

Ive been seeing amd owners lately regarding USB issues, anyone have it? Not having any issues on mine


----------



## neatfeatguy (Feb 22, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


> Ive been seeing amd owners lately regarding USB issues, anyone have it? Not having any issues on mine



No USB issues in terms of disconnects, hang ups, drops or so on for me.

This being my first Win 10 system at home that I use on a constant basis (my htpc runs Win 10, but I rarely have to login and use it) and on my ASRock x570 Phantom Gaming 4 with 5900x, I have had Windows 10 give me random USB disconnect sounds here and there. Only USB devices plugged in are my headset (front case 3.0 port) and mouse (rear MB usb 3.2 port). My keyboard is PS/2.

I figure my issue is a Windows 10 issue since folks have been reporting the USB disconnect sounds for years. I simply set the "USB settings > USB selective suspend setting" (under the Advanced Power Settings) to DISABLED. I no longer hear the annoying, random USB disconnect counds.


----------



## freeagent (Feb 26, 2021)

Was just at newegg a little while ago looking at stuff I wouldn’t buy until I came across 1 of 4 5600X in stock sold and shipped by them.. so I had to grab one 

Wasnt planning on that so she might make me sell the 3600XT..  but she’s sleeping like a baby right now so probably not 

Now I just need a gpu and my kid needs a board and we are set.


----------



## tabascosauz (Feb 26, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Was just at newegg a little while ago looking at stuff I wouldn’t buy until I came across 1 of 4 5600X in stock sold and shipped by them.. so I had to grab one
> 
> Wasnt planning on that so she might make me sell the 3600XT..  but she’s sleeping like a baby right now so probably not
> 
> Now I just need a gpu and my kid needs a board and we are set.



Sold my 3700X within 24 hours at a more than reasonable price considering how long I had it. It looks like AMD straight up EOL'd (?) the 3600XT in Canada and the only real vendor for the 3600X is selling it for $340 CAD  (that's bonkers, my 4650G cost me $330). You can probably fetch a decent price for that 3600XT if you wanted to sell.


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Feb 26, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Was just at newegg a little while ago looking at stuff I wouldn’t buy until I came across 1 of 4 5600X in stock sold and shipped by them.. so I had to grab one
> 
> *Wasnt planning on that so she might make me sell the 3600XT*.. but she’s sleeping like a baby right now so probably not
> 
> Now I just need a gpu and my kid needs a board and we are set.



I'll take that 3600XT off your hands


----------



## Mussels (Feb 26, 2021)

I'll take your hands off your wrists


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Feb 26, 2021)

I just spotted this comment on a Paul's Hardware review of the Intel 6950X 10-core from 2016 and it's a knee-slapper in hindsight.


----------



## freeagent (Feb 26, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Sold my 3700X within 24 hours at a more than reasonable price considering how long I had it. It looks like AMD straight up EOL'd (?) the 3600XT in Canada and the only real vendor for the 3600X is selling it for $340 CAD  (that's bonkers, my 4650G cost me $330). You can probably fetch a decent price for that 3600XT if you wanted to sell.


I know right? I thought they quit making them already lol.. 



Gmr_Chick said:


> I'll take that 3600XT off your hands


I will talk to you next week ok? 



Mussels said:


> I'll take your hands off your wrists


Sold!



PooPipeBoy said:


> I just spotted this comment on a Paul's Hardware review of the Intel 6950X 10-core from 2016 and it's a knee-slapper in hindsight.
> 
> View attachment 190048


Ahh the good old days!


----------



## TheLostSwede (Feb 26, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


> Ive been seeing amd owners lately regarding USB issues, anyone have it? Not having any issues on mine


I had some glitchy issues at one point, which I presumed was because of the 10 cent Genesys Logic USB hub that Gigabyte uses.
That was some time ago and I've not had any issues for at least the past 10 UEFI updates.


----------



## kapone32 (Feb 26, 2021)

So I recently came into some unexpected funds. It is a larger sum than I expected so I was going to treat myself. I wanted to ask the community though. I want to go back to a single high end computer. I currently have a 5600x system paired with a 6800XT and a 2920x based system with Vega 64. I want to get into TRX40 (The MSI TRX40 Pro is literally $399 US on B&H and the 10G is $513 CAD on another site) but having a 5600X means that I can appreciate the improvements that 5000 series have with them (especially Gaming). In some benchmarks with the 6800XT the 5600X was 60% faster than the 2920X. 

I want a 3960X. Does it make sense that those are less retail than on Ebay. The caveat is that I don't want to get burned like we did on X399 (Which was understandable) as I know for a fact that I will be getting whatever 5000 semi affordable chip there is for the next Gen Threadripper chip. Judging from what I have seen from the 5600X it should be crazy. Probably on the level of 2 5900X. Anyhow I guess I am asking should I take the plunge and get a 3960X or wait and see if the 5000 are backward compatible?


----------



## PaulieG (Feb 26, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Just curious.. at stock with PBO enabled, 3 of my 6 cores boost up to 4625MHz. But when I try to manually set 4600 in the bios, and go to load up my trusty testing app and hit go, the pc will reboot after a few seconds, its like I crossed a magical current domain and it clips and reboots. Voltage doesn't help, LLC doesn't help. I do only have 1 CPU 8 pin installed, I cant use the other 8 pin because it wont separate to four pin, and I am thinking the CPU is not getting enough juice.. Does it sound like I am on the right track? The CPU will load windows at 4700 all core manual.. so its not like a frequency wall.





tabascosauz said:


> No, it's most definitely a frequency/voltage wall...lol. That's exactly what a wall looks like.
> 
> I can "run" 4400MHz on my 4650G all day long if booting into Windows is a benchmark for stability......it literally isn't possible to run any actual CPU stress test (no, Cinebench is not a stress test) at those all-core speeds. If degradation wasn't a thing, I could overvolt it to the moon if I wanted to. It will not be stable even for 1 second.
> 
> ...


With a manual OC I've found my 5600x and 3600x scale frequency and voltage very well until it hits it's wall. Once they hit that wall then it takes a much higher percentage of additional of voltage to get them to budge at all. For instance, I can get get my 5600x rock stable @ 4.4ghz on 1.16v, 4.5ghz on 1.18v, but to get it stable at 4.6ghz. it takes 1.23v to get stable and starts becoming way too hot for this stock cooler to really test for rock solid stability. I can boot into windows and do general tasks @ 4.7ghz on 1.28v, but I don't dare run any stability tests until I get the EK AIO installed this weekend.


----------



## freeagent (Feb 26, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> With a manual OC I've found my 5600x and 3600x scale frequency and voltage very well until it hits it's wall. Once they hit that wall then it takes a much higher percentage of additional of voltage to get them to budge at all. For instance, I can get get my 5600x rock stable @ 4.4ghz on 1.16v, 4.5ghz on 1.18v, but to get it stable at 4.6ghz it takes 1.23v to get stable and starts becoming way too hot for this stock cooler. I can boot into windows and do general tasks @ 4.7ghz on 1.28v, but I don't dare run any stability tests until I get the EK AIO installed this weekend.


Yeah I hear you man. That's a nice CPU. I was expecting a bluescreen or something. Initially I thought that maybe the CPU wasn't getting enough power with just an 8 pin eps. I upgraded my PSU and got an extra 4 pins to use for 12 total and it didn't help. So yup, I guess that's the wall. Kind of like 939 in that way with my San Diego iirc.

I am looking forward to getting that 5600X  Its the CPU I wanted.. but couldn't get unless I wanted to pay 200 over msrp. I do have to say, this 3600XT has been a real treat to use. Its a very good CPU if you don't need a workstation at home. Just 1 year ago I would never have considered an AMD, I am glad I did this time.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Feb 26, 2021)

kapone32 said:


> So I recently came into some unexpected funds. It is a larger sum than I expected so I was going to treat myself. I wanted to ask the community though. I want to go back to a single high end computer. I currently have a 5600x system paired with a 6800XT and a 2920x based system with Vega 64. I want to get into TRX40 (The MSI TRX40 Pro is literally $399 US on B&H and the 10G is $513 CAD on another site) but having a 5600X means that I can appreciate the improvements that 5000 series have with them (especially Gaming). In some benchmarks with the 6800XT the 5600X was 60% faster than the 2920X.
> 
> I want a 3960X. Does it make sense that those are less retail than on Ebay. The caveat is that I don't want to get burned like we did on X399 (Which was understandable) as I know for a fact that I will be getting whatever 5000 semi affordable chip there is for the next Gen Threadripper chip. Judging from what I have seen from the 5600X it should be crazy. Probably on the level of 2 5900X. Anyhow I guess I am asking should I take the plunge and get a 3960X or wait and see if the 5000 are backward compatible?



So was the "amount" like.... $50? $60? 

I think the only time I've come into money unexpectedly was when got US$500 from winning an essay competition. It covered a nice chunk of costs for my 5600X upgrade. Although considering I spent three days writing the essay, it's not like I couldn't have earned that money from working three days in an engineering gig, so it kind of felt like I earned it anyway.


----------



## Mussels (Feb 26, 2021)

kapone32 said:


> So I recently came into some unexpected funds. It is a larger sum than I expected so I was going to treat myself. I wanted to ask the community though. I want to go back to a single high end computer. I currently have a 5600x system paired with a 6800XT and a 2920x based system with Vega 64. I want to get into TRX40 (The MSI TRX40 Pro is literally $399 US on B&H and the 10G is $513 CAD on another site) but having a 5600X means that I can appreciate the improvements that 5000 series have with them (especially Gaming). In some benchmarks with the 6800XT the 5600X was 60% faster than the 2920X.
> 
> I want a 3960X. Does it make sense that those are less retail than on Ebay. The caveat is that I don't want to get burned like we did on X399 (Which was understandable) as I know for a fact that I will be getting whatever 5000 semi affordable chip there is for the next Gen Threadripper chip. Judging from what I have seen from the 5600X it should be crazy. Probably on the level of 2 5900X. Anyhow I guess I am asking should I take the plunge and get a 3960X or wait and see if the 5000 are backward compatible?


If you're going that high end, wait for the zen 3 variant of threadripper for sure - every gen they've narrowed it down so there was less gaming loss compared to ryzen, too.


----------



## kapone32 (Feb 27, 2021)

Mussels said:


> If you're going that high end, wait for the zen 3 variant of threadripper for sure - every gen they've narrowed it down so there was less gaming loss compared to ryzen, too.





PooPipeBoy said:


> So was the "amount" like.... $50? $60?
> 
> I think the only time I've come into money unexpectedly was when got US$500 from winning an essay competition. It covered a nice chunk of costs for my 5600X upgrade. Although considering I spent three days writing the essay, it's not like I couldn't have earned that money from working three days in an engineering gig, so it kind of felt like I earned it anyway.


Add a couple zeros. There is no way I would be looking at a $2000 CPU with a $50 surprise. Besides my Wife would probably have a bird if I just bought something like that while life needs to be paid for.


----------



## Mussels (Feb 27, 2021)

I mean you could just get a 5950X and call it a good compromise?


----------



## kapone32 (Feb 27, 2021)

Mussels said:


> If you're going that high end, wait for the zen 3 variant of threadripper for sure - every gen they've narrowed it down so there was less gaming loss compared to ryzen, too.


Thanks for that. It's not like I don't want a 3000 Threadripper. The thing for me is it could be like the X570 where that was released for the 3000 series AM4 chips but they jumped in price and diversified(negatively) in features when the 5000 series chips launched. Hopefully it is a board upgrade like what they told us years ago and we would have 3 different HEDT chipsets (Looks like 2 anyway). I just don't want to buy anymore motherboards. TRx40 is the last board I want for the current Generation of products.



Mussels said:


> I mean you could just get a 5950X and call it a good compromise?


It's the PCIe lanes (or lack there of) on X570 that keeps me waxing nostalgic for X399 and wanting to jump into TRX40.


----------



## LifeOnMars (Feb 27, 2021)

Hi peeps, Had my 3600 since May last year but never played around with an OC, just left it at stock and have been gaming daily on it since. I'm using the stock cooler and it does get a tad noisy when it constantly ramps up and down, I finally decided to see if I could do something about it.

My case cooling is not fantastic and obviously I'm only using the stock CPU cooler but just wanted confirmation that these voltages are ok and how to test for stability as I seem to have sorted out the noise problem...

It's at 4.2Ghz with voltages showing 1.325v max when idling briefly and then around 1.12v when under heavy load. VSOC is at 1.05v. Noise has gone down dramatically using the silent profile and the reduced voltage. Memory is just at stock XMP 3200 profile. Very happy as I was considering getting an aftermarket cooler but honestly, this is almost silent now even under heavy load. My 1080ti is silent as well so all in all it's a nice experience when gaming in my front room.

I've tested it with all the Prime 95 tests for 12 hrs each time and it shows no errors, max temp 87c
I've also gamed on it for two weeks with no issues for 4-5 hr sessions in several demanding games that utilise a lot of cores and RAM.

I game at 4K so not really bothered about tweaking ram or anything else....Am I good or is there any other stability tests that could help identify potential problems? Thanks


----------



## Mussels (Feb 27, 2021)

LifeOnMars said:


> Hi peeps, Had my 3600 since May last year but never played around with an OC, just left it at stock and have been gaming daily on it since. I'm using the stock cooler and it does get a tad noisy when it constantly ramps up and down, I finally decided to see if I could do something about it.
> 
> My case cooling is not fantastic and obviously I'm only using the stock CPU cooler but just wanted confirmation that these voltages are ok and how to test for stability as I seem to have sorted out the noise problem...
> 
> ...



ryzen crashes at idle as much as load, when unstable.

I liked running loops of cinebench R23 and then letting it idle for a while, then smacking it back on. usually while browing, youtube, FB whatever.


----------



## LifeOnMars (Feb 27, 2021)

OK good to know thanks, it's on pretty much 24/7 but I do let it sleep and then wake it when I use it. Using the Ryzen balanced power plan with the standard 10 minutes display/30 minutes sleep setting.


----------



## tabascosauz (Feb 27, 2021)

LifeOnMars said:


> OK good to know thanks, it's on pretty much 24/7 but I do let it sleep and then wake it when I use it. Using the Ryzen balanced power plan with the standard 10 minutes display/30 minutes sleep setting.



I am right in understanding that you're essentially doing a 4.2 @ 1.325V static OC?

If that's the case, and you're seeing 1.12V in HWInfo under the SVI2 Vcore reading (which, by the way, is a _lot _of Vdroop lol), there's not a lot of harder tests than P95 Small FFT with AVX enabled. With the stock boosting algorithm enabled, it'll automatically cut down your clocks and Vcore if AVX is enabled because Small AVX is brutal.

You could also try tweaking a custom run length in IntelBurnTest, or use LinpackXtreme for tough CPU tests.

For 1.12V SVI2 Vcore (our AMD equivalent of die sense), it would be fine, but remember that temperature is another factor that accelerates degradation at the top end, so keep it below 85C. Also, even given how P95 behaves, you only really need to run it for an hour or two at most before you move onto a different stress test. Running 12 hours of P95 Small on end @ 85C is pretty much silicon abuse


----------



## LifeOnMars (Feb 27, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I am right in understanding that you're essentially doing a 4.2 @ 1.325V static OC?
> 
> If that's the case, and you're seeing 1.12V in HWInfo under the SVI2 Vcore reading (which, by the way, is a _lot _of Vdroop lol), there's not a lot of harder tests than P95 Small FFT with AVX enabled. With the stock boosting algorithm enabled, it'll automatically cut down your clocks and Vcore if AVX is enabled because Small AVX is brutal.
> 
> ...


TBH I literally just set 4200, 1.1v in the bios, 1.05 vscoc, RAM to XMP and then set cpu fan to silent mode. It certainly doesn't look static when checking in HW Info x64 clock speeds change, as do voltages.

In games it holds 4200 throughout. Benchmark figures for cinebench and CPUz look spot on. Temps during games only hit mids 60s or lower and then mid 70s very max in Mafia 3 which hammers all the cores constantly. 

I'll definitely try those other tests you suggested but this quite honestly looks and feels like a very stable setup. For my own uses I think I've got lucky as I hate having to endlessly tweak in order to get stability so I'll take it.


----------



## PaulieG (Feb 27, 2021)

Finally got the 5600x in a case with the EK AIO 240 installed. This is what I've accomplished thus far. 4.6 is rock solid. Time to see what I'll need to get 4.7 stable without heat getting in the way.


----------



## freeagent (Feb 27, 2021)

Good luck! I am hoping for 4700+ with mine when it gets here!

We shall see though.. I am not usually that lucky like everyone else


----------



## kapone32 (Feb 27, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Good luck! I am hoping for 4700+ with mine when it gets here!
> 
> We shall see though.. I am not usually that lucky like everyone else


Mine runs at 4700 all day long


----------



## PaulieG (Feb 27, 2021)

kapone32 said:


> Mine runs at 4700 all day long


All core? Vcore, SOC and IOD voltage?


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 27, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> All core? Vcore, SOC and IOD voltage?



i can't get 4700 stable for life of me. but i run 4625 all day long 24/7 at 1.360v, 1.150 soc.  i never break 60 celsius and no downclocking. (the games im playing aren't cpu intensive, like WoW Shadowlands) im sure if i play witcher 3 or something it will jump to 70 celsius. i have a nice cooler though and high fan cruve on it.


----------



## PaulieG (Feb 27, 2021)

My Asus ROG Strix B550 board HATES bclk over 100 so I can't overclock it to 101 like I can on my Asus TUF B550 which is odd, since it's the same manufacturer and chipset, nevermind that the STRIX is supposed to be a higher end board. Maybe I'll mess around with with underclocking BCLK if I don't like the vcore it takes to get 4.7ghz.


----------



## freeagent (Feb 27, 2021)

Honestly, I probably won’t feel too bad if it doesn’t oc that well. My XT boosts up to 4625 on half of the cores the other half scale to 4475, heavy load 43-4400 so I could manually run 44-4500 with lowish volts, 46-4700 with a more abusive voltage, so I didn’t hang out in that region for too long. The TPU review got 4600 on the 5600x.. so I have to wonder about the reviews of 4800mhz overclocks and their actual stability.. for play that would be ok, but I am more interested in actual overclocks that you can run daily. If I have to move to water I might.. I am positive there is not much more I can do with air cooling without moving to 200cfm+ class fans. Honestly, I’m getting too old for that shit, I can barely tolerate 100cfm fans at 12v these days. If I can squeeze 4600-4800 out of it I will be happy. That’s what I’ve run my last few Intel CPUs at, and it would scratch my cpuz itch. Of course more is better.. so I will remain hopeful and keep the cynic in me gagged and bound 

Also I saw that review by the Aussie and he got pretty high with something like 1.2v.. which got me wondering if nicer bins go to countries like that because of heat and power reasons while cooler regions get the rest..


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 27, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> My Asus ROG Strix B550 board HATES bclk over 100 so I can't overclock it to 101 like I can on my Asus TUF B550 which is odd, since it's the same manufacturer and chipset, nevermind that the STRIX is supposed to be a higher end board. Maybe I'll mess around with with underclocking BCLK if I don't like the vcore it takes to get 4.7ghz.




I wasn't aware Zen 3 owners were messing around with BCLK... i have never touched that before, I thought we are not supposed to touch that?


----------



## PaulieG (Feb 27, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I wasn't aware Zen 3 owners were messing around with BCLK... i have never touched that before, I thought we are not supposed to touch that?


I experimented some. I was able to get up to 102 to cooperate on the 3600x/TUF B550 board, which was quite handy for smaller incremental clock increases. How are you setting your clocks to get 4625? Are you talking about your boost clock?


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (Feb 27, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> I only did the diagnosis or whatever is it called to see what my sample was. I presume it didn't apply any settings?


Hello, as long as you didn't apply to a profile or at startup, it should be fine. Either way thanks to @biffzinker for sharing the screenshots over here that I had sent in the discord, and to elaborate upon this that 1.5-1.55v Vcore is *NOT *using the protections from AMDs PBO system and manual removes these protections, 1.55v *static* through a single core is not the same as *PBO* and 1usmus removes the protections during this process and runs a Prime AVX1 test (more suitable towards RAM/IMC) for the testing process which drives the core to the ground and will cause degradation to the processor in most scenarios, Anyone using this with renoir avoid it period - unless you want your processor degraded
Some more fun of CTR2.0:



And a new article written on the matter from "Chip":








						CTR Safety, Revisited
					

There are times when being a journalist is exciting.Your team writes something important, people engage with it and it generates a large response. Unfortunately, those are often the exact situation…




					chipsandcheese.com
				



Either way, do not trust this tool and run PBO instead or manual with safe vcore.
Edit: (another screenshot from a renoir sample)




@trickson Care to explain why you're bombarding posts with the 'haha' reaction on? Is there something we're doing wrong with CTR2.0 for it to degrade processors and consistently damage CPUs along with shoving down 1.5V into a 3970X? Or running completely unsafe all-core load vcore?????????? Care to elaborate?


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Feb 27, 2021)

Jesus Christ... 

I _was _thinking of running CTR just to see what tier my CPU was but not anymore. Why the hell would any Ryzen owner risk the longevity of their CPU by using this?


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 27, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> I experimented some. I was able to get up to 102 to cooperate on the 3600x/TUF B550 board, which was quite handy for smaller incremental clock increases. How are you setting your clocks to get 4625? Are you talking about your boost clock?



its an all core clock no boosting or downclocking.  I just set all core to 4625, 1.360 man voltage with a -25 amd offset and 1.150 on soc and LLC to mode 4.  been rock solid for months.



Gmr_Chick said:


> Jesus Christ...
> 
> I _was _thinking of running CTR just to see what tier my CPU was but not anymore. Why the hell would any Ryzen owner risk the longevity of their CPU by using this?



I think the first version was trusted, so sites advertising it for free basically just took it for granted... I think that's what happened. I have not used it, thankfully.


----------



## Mussels (Feb 27, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> My Asus ROG Strix B550 board HATES bclk over 100 so I can't overclock it to 101 like I can on my Asus TUF B550 which is odd, since it's the same manufacturer and chipset, nevermind that the STRIX is supposed to be a higher end board. Maybe I'll mess around with with underclocking BCLK if I don't like the vcore it takes to get 4.7ghz.


I saw an extra BIOS setting hidden away once, that kept boost enabled when messing with BCLK

My asus B450 went like a year with being able to OC with 103, then all of a sudden 101 a BIOS update changed and it would lock it to stock multi (37x) and drive me bonkers. a few BIOS later i found a setting that specifically said it kept boost active when messing with BCLK, and then i never saw that setting again.
It could be one of those stupid ones that you have to set the OC, reboot, and only then does it appear (ECO mode works like that, gotta enable PBO and reboot before it appears)


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Feb 28, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Jesus Christ...
> 
> I _was _thinking of running CTR just to see what tier my CPU was but not anymore. Why the hell would any Ryzen owner risk the longevity of their CPU by using this?



The results aren't very surprising anyway. It seems to be that six cores are usually Bronze, with the eight core chips as Silver. I'd imagine that Gold samples are reserved for Threadripper and Epyc.


----------



## tabascosauz (Feb 28, 2021)

_L_ said:


> Hello, as long as you didn't apply to a profile or at startup, it should be fine. Either way thanks to @biffzinker for sharing the screenshots over here that I had sent in the discord, and to elaborate upon this that 1.5-1.55v Vcore is *NOT *using the protections from AMDs PBO system and manual removes these protections, 1.55v *static* through a single core is not the same as *PBO* and 1usmus removes the protections during this process and runs a Prime AVX1 test (more suitable towards RAM/IMC) for the testing process which drives the core to the ground and will cause degradation to the processor in most scenarios, Anyone using this with renoir avoid it period - unless you want your processor degraded
> Some more fun of CTR2.0:
> 
> And a new article written on the matter from "Chip":
> ...



Not too much a fan of that Chip article as it's pretty thin on verified sources, just parroting the same anecdote about the broken 4650G (not saying it didn't happen, just saying that you kinda need more proof than just one dude on Discord to make claims of any sort). I think the post on TPU I saw about the 4650G might have been the same dude. 

I mean, yes, the obvious is obvious, 1.55V isn't safe regardless of the bullshit that Yuri spouts. But "1.55V isn't safe, Yuri's full of shit, CTR pushes 1.55V, everyone knows 1.55V isn't safe" could probably have made for a much more succinct article.

That said, without knowing the whole context about the communications between them, I'm surprised Yuri took it so personally. Kinda makes him look like an arrogant prick. He's not Jesus, not everything Ryzen revolves around him, and he's not always right (just take a look at some of the shit he writes about procODT on his "Ryzen Memory guides"). And Renoir support is brand new in CTR v2.0 (1.0 didn't support it), so you'd think he'd be more open to feedback about whether the new features work properly or not.

Maybe he thinks he's famous cause he made a dinky, often questionable timings calculator for people who can't be bothered to read other DRAM guides to learn the basics.



Gmr_Chick said:


> Jesus Christ...
> 
> I _was _thinking of running CTR just to see what tier my CPU was but not anymore. Why the hell would any Ryzen owner risk the longevity of their CPU by using this?



You should be fine if you only use the Diagnostic button. After all, that's the only thing that CTR really offers that's unique. I sure as hell wouldn't fucking trust him with stress testing some "OC profile" that the software determined.

At the same time, CTR did recommend "OC profiles" that were sub-4GHz for my 4650G, so I pretty much just find CTR to be an amusing pile of ____. At least DRAM Calc has membench, which is actually useful as a benchmark.


----------



## Mussels (Feb 28, 2021)

I mean, my 3700x degraded at 1.2V
my brothers just had his 3700x start degrading at 1.3v 

Maybe thats why they werent used as 3800X's, who knows. we dont even know if it was the boards VRMs, the chips, or changes in ambient weather (we had identical boards and CPUs)


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 28, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I mean, my 3700x degraded at 1.2V
> my brothers just had his 3700x start degrading at 1.3v
> 
> Maybe thats why they werent used as 3800X's, who knows. we dont even know if it was the boards VRMs, the chips, or changes in ambient weather (we had identical boards and CPUs)


if chips are really degrading this fast something seems very wrong to me... my 2500k was able to do 4.5 ghz all core no downclocking for like 7 years straight.


----------



## Mussels (Feb 28, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> if chips are really degrading this fast something seems very wrong to me... my 2500k was able to do 4.5 ghz all core no downclocking for like 7 years straight.


thats intel. these are not intel.

All i can say is, with needing to raise volts more and more over time (i went from needing 1.2v to 1.21v to 1.25v when i moved to the 5800x) i realised something was up, and i didnt want dead chips on my hands. Was this a flaw with the 3000 series? the 3700x? the motherboard we both had? Who knows. But it made me get a 5800x with high turbo clocks and focus on that, instead.


----------



## Makaveli (Feb 28, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> The results aren't very surprising anyway. It seems to be that six cores are usually Bronze, with the eight core chips as Silver. I'd imagine that Gold samples are reserved for Threadripper and Epyc.


Nope.


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Feb 28, 2021)

Reading that Chips article right now and boy does Yuri sound like, well, a douchebag. Just from reading his various comments in the comments section, I can tell he thinks rather highly of himself and insists the writers are "stupid users who didn't read the manual!" Gee, you guys think he doesn't like it when people criticize his program? Lol   Like, forget about the fact that it's been shown to cause degradation. Nah, that's not the fault of his program -- everybody is just stupid and didn't read the manual


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Feb 28, 2021)

Mussels said:


> thats intel. these are not intel.
> 
> All i can say is, with needing to raise volts more and more over time (i went from needing 1.2v to 1.21v to 1.25v when i moved to the 5800x) i realised something was up, and i didnt want dead chips on my hands. Was this a flaw with the 3000 series? the 3700x? the motherboard we both had? Who knows. But it made me get a 5800x with high turbo clocks and focus on that, instead.



You don't think it's due to bios updates? It could even be from Windows updates for all we know.

Since I upgraded my power supply I've actually found that my PBO undervolting stability has improved. Previously could only do negative 20 all cores stable, now I can do negative 30 all cores. So it could even be a power delivery degradation issue, nothing to do with the processor itself. It just seems like everyone is jumping to the conclusion that the silicon is to blame.


----------



## freeagent (Feb 28, 2021)

Maybe I will just stick to IF and Memclk tuning.. 

You guys know your awesome right?


----------



## Mussels (Feb 28, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> You don't think it's due to bios updates? It could even be from Windows updates for all we know.
> 
> Since I upgraded my power supply I've actually found that my PBO undervolting stability has improved. Previously could only do negative 20 all cores stable, now I can do negative 30 all cores. So it could even be a power delivery degradation issue, nothing to do with the processor itself. It just seems like everyone is jumping to the conclusion that the silicon is to blame.


this is why i specifically said i dont know what the cause was, only that i didnt like the voltage creeping up as months went by


----------



## tabascosauz (Feb 28, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I mean, my 3700x degraded at 1.2V
> my brothers just had his 3700x start degrading at 1.3v
> 
> Maybe thats why they werent used as 3800X's, who knows. we dont even know if it was the boards VRMs, the chips, or changes in ambient weather (we had identical boards and CPUs)



What the UA batch numbers for these two 3700X's?

Let's face it, 3000 was basically a beta test for AMD's chiplet design (of which Ryzen 5000 is the finished product), and AMD treated its product and us buyers as such. It wouldn't be surprising to start seeing more stability issues with time, from some of the initial lower binned CPUs / harder-worked CPUs. 3600 and 3700X got the worse end of the stick - there were some _really bad _3600s and 3700Xs in Q2 2019 and Q3 2019 production - like, 4.0 @ 1.3V bad.

AMD definitely pushed more Vcore through the 3000 chips than 5000. Probably in a bid to try to get the lower quality silicon as close to the "rated boost" as they could get, to avoid a class action lawsuit. I got used to seeing peak Vcore at up to 1.55V every other day on my 3700X for a meagre 4.28GHz effective, no PBO no offset no nothing just bone stock - and the same on 4 different motherboards, no less. The 5900X now peaks at about 1.49-1.5V @ 4.85-4.9GHz effective, stock.



freeagent said:


> Maybe I will just stick to IF and Memclk tuning..



The I/O die says hi and would like to remind that it too is a piece of silicon with finite lifespan   in all seriousness, the entirety of my old chip was a [barely] living testament to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" - read: don't overclock a turd .

So I learned my lesson and not fixing what's not broke is what I'm doing now


----------



## freeagent (Feb 28, 2021)

I agree, I turned everything down.. its still pretty quick..

I am curious if the 3 series was a beta test, and maybe the XT is where they borrowed some of the refinement of the 5 series? I doubt it though..


----------



## harm9963 (Feb 28, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> The results aren't very surprising anyway. It seems to be that six cores are usually Bronze, with the eight core chips as Silver. I'd imagine that Gold samples are reserved for Threadripper and Epyc.


Nope


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Feb 28, 2021)

harm9963 said:


> View attachment 190291
> 
> 
> Nope



Given that it's a flagship processor it's not very surprising, brother.


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Feb 28, 2021)

_L_ said:


> Hello, as long as you didn't apply to a profile or at startup, it should be fine. Either way thanks to @biffzinker for sharing the screenshots over here that I had sent in the discord, and to elaborate upon this that 1.5-1.55v Vcore is *NOT *using the protections from AMDs PBO system and manual removes these protections, 1.55v *static* through a single core is not the same as *PBO* and 1usmus removes the protections during this process and runs a Prime AVX1 test (more suitable towards RAM/IMC) for the testing process which drives the core to the ground and will cause degradation to the processor in most scenarios, Anyone using this with renoir avoid it period - unless you want your processor degraded
> Some more fun of CTR2.0:
> View attachment 190211
> And a new article written on the matter from "Chip":
> ...



Wondering this myself, as the Haha Wonder just reacted the same way to my post wondering why a Ryzen owner would ever use CTR given the problems mentioned.


----------



## dyonoctis (Mar 3, 2021)

I'm a bit surprised that tech*powerup *haven't picked up on that new B550 board yet:
first thunderbolt 4 on AMD. I just wish that they would follow Gigabyte and make a ProArt ITX as well.











						ASUS ProArt B550 Creator motherboard gets Thunderbolt 4 - VideoCardz.com
					

ASUS AMD motherboard with Thunderbolt 4 ASUS has the first Thunderbolt 4 motherboard.   12+2 Teamed Power Stage for stable and reliable power delivery under load Motherboards have not really been a hot topic in recent months due to the lack of new sockets. Only recently Intel has released its...




					videocardz.com


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## freeagent (Mar 4, 2021)

I have to say this 5600X is alotta fun. I have to question the contact of my Thermalright cooler now.. I can barely tame an all core of 4600 with max loads in the very low 80s, IF clocking is insane though.. I had a hard time at first and couldn't break 2000IF I haven't adjusted any other voltage outside of vcore and vdimm. Sub timings helped me out greatly, so its not just the CPU, I think the mobo has to want to play ball too, but hard to say because I am a noob.



I feel like I am tempting fate by trying for 2133.. not sure when I will run out of ram though.. never been this fast before with memtest


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 5, 2021)

So, after getting a stable all core manual overclock of 4.7ghz @ 1.29v on my 5600x rock solid, I started playing with PBO and curve optimizer. Long story short, I seemed to be pretty stable on all cores at -20 CO getting boost speeds on all cores of 4.85ghz. Passed OCCT for 2 hours, ran all kinds of other benchmarks and left youtube on for 7 hours overnight without any reboots etc. No signs of any instability whatsoever.. but over the last two days I've had something odd happen. I can run the computer all day, doing all kinds of benchmarks and just day to day tasks without anything weird happening. However, if I shut the computer down overnight, when I turn it on in the morning the computer will try to post, but will behave in a way similar to a bad overclock. It will either just hang and not post at all or will come into the bios with an instability message, prompting me to press F1. I'll have to reset the bios to get it to post. Thing is, after this I can input the same overclock settings and it will post, boot into windows and run everything as perfectly stable. Anyone else experience this type of behavior? Any idea what's going on here?


----------



## freeagent (Mar 5, 2021)

To me it sounds like a bad OC.

A weird thing with mine is that I can scale all the way up to 4900, but cant nail down more than anything over 4600 with really low voltage. That is 1 speed 1 voltage, no curves or anything like that.


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 5, 2021)

freeagent said:


> To me it sounds like a bad OC.
> 
> A weird thing with mine is that I can scale all the way up to 4900, but cant nail down more than anything over 4600 with really low voltage. That is 1 speed 1 voltage, no curves or anything like that.


It just doesn't make sense to me. I pass everything, and I can go hours and hours of daily tasks, streaming, everything. No signs of instability whatsoever. It isn't until I turn the computer off and leave it off for several hours that this occurs.

As far as the manual OC goes, I posted a couple of weeks ago about the big jump in voltage needed for anything over 4.6ghz. Needed just 1.14v for 4.4,ghz 1.16v for 4.5ghz, 1.24v for 4.6ghz and 1.29v for 4.7ghz. My line in the sand on these chips is 1.3v, so I never really messed with 4.8ghz.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 5, 2021)

Maybe she's not getting enough juice on startup? Like a GPU boosting too high? Sorry I am just guessing here. Thanks for some insight on voltage, I saw all kind of comments, but they seemed like guesses to me.


----------



## dgianstefani (Mar 5, 2021)

freeagent said:


> To me it sounds like a bad OC.
> 
> A weird thing with mine is that I can scale all the way up to 4900, but cant nail down more than anything over 4600 with really low voltage. That is 1 speed 1 voltage, no curves or anything like that.


Ryzen as a platform not as rock solid as Intel.

Weird stuff like this happens. Try increasing a few other voltages other than just vcore.


----------



## biffzinker (Mar 5, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> It just doesn't make sense to me. I pass everything, and I can go hours and hours of daily tasks, streaming, everything. No signs of stability whatsoever. It isn't until I turn the computer off and leave it off for several hours that this occurs.


It could be SoC related instability. I just having a similar problem after a shutdown then posting the next power on. Bumped the OC on the memory, ram is stable seemed to be the IMC.


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 5, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Ryzen as a platform not as rock solid as Intel.
> 
> Weird stuff like this happens. Try increasing a few other voltages other than just vcore.





biffzinker said:


> It could be SoC related instability. I just having a similar problem after a shutdown then posting the next power on. Bumped the OC on the memory, ram is stable seemed to be the IMC.



The "weird stuff" makes me nuts. I've set the SOC to 1.1v because I have the memory overclocked. So maybe 1.15v? Anything on IOD? CCD?


----------



## biffzinker (Mar 5, 2021)

I just bumped the SoC again last night to 1.21 from 1.2 and the weird behavior went away. Running with four ram sticks though.


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## dgianstefani (Mar 5, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> The "weird stuff" makes me nuts. I've set the SOC to 1.1v because I have the memory overclocked. So maybe 1.15v? Anything on IOD? CCD?


U can set both VDDG CCD to 1.05v, 1.075/09 max. As a general rule they should both be 0.05v minimum lower than SOC voltage.

VDDP Voltage should be 0.95 to 1v, max 1.1, general rule 0.025 minimum below VDDG.


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 5, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> I just bumped the SoC again last night to 1.21 from 1.2 and the weird behavior went away. Running with four ram sticks though.


I'm running 4 sticks also. 


dgianstefani said:


> U can set both VDDG CCD to 1.05v, 1.075/09 max. As a general rule they should both be 0.05v minimum lower than SOC voltage.
> 
> VDDP Voltage should be 0.95 to 1v, max 1.1, general rule 0.025 minimum below VDDG.


This is what I needed. I'll give it a try tonight.


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## dgianstefani (Mar 5, 2021)

I have my SOC offset at 0.0125+, SoC at 1.175v, CCD/IOD @ 1.09v, VDDP @ 1.05v.

But I have top tier cooling so bear that in mind.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 5, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> I'm running 4 sticks also.
> 
> This is what I needed. I'll give it a try tonight.


My system would do weird things with 4 sticks installed. Stable as a table except occasionally on a cold boot. I took the other pair out to let this thing spread its wings. I have had IF at 2166.. its psychotic.


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 5, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> So, after getting a stable all core manual overclock of 4.7ghz @ 1.29v on my 5600x rock solid, I started playing with PBO and curve optimizer. Long story short, I seemed to be pretty stable on all cores at -20 CO getting boost speeds on all cores of 4.85ghz. Passed OCCT for 2 hours, ran all kinds of other benchmarks and left youtube on for 7 hours overnight without any reboots etc. No signs of any instability whatsoever.. but over the last two days I've had something odd happen. I can run the computer all day, doing all kinds of benchmarks and just day to day tasks without anything weird happening. However, if I shut the computer down overnight, when I turn it on in the morning the computer will try to post, but will behave in a way similar to a bad overclock. It will either just hang and not post at all or will come into the bios with an instability message, prompting me to press F1. I'll have to reset the bios to get it to post. Thing is, after this I can input the same overclock settings and it will post, boot into windows and run everything as perfectly stable. Anyone else experience this type of behavior? Any idea what's going on here?



I'm not sure exactly whether yours is cores- or SOC-related, but from my Matisse experience the failed cold starts until CMOS reset came as a result of pushing IF too hard (3733 for my old crappy 3700X). Sometimes I had issues with my SN750 disappearing from Windows with a stornvme error, as soon as I restarted upon seeing the drive disappear, it would fail to POST. I soon learned to brace for the worst upon the next restart as soon as I lost the drive.

I'm much more leery now about the CLDOs than I used to be. The conventional wisdom from the Memtesthelper guide is that the VDDGs should be about 0.04-0.05V lower than VSOC as they are derived from it (taking into account different SMU and SVI2 measurements of VSOC and droop), but I'm not so sure that is the right call. The recommended ranges for VDDG and VDDP never worked on my 3700X, either to enable stable 3733 operation, or to prevent the SN750 from dropping out, or the occasional cold start POST failures.

The other school of thought is that one of the VDDGs (sorry, I really can't remember if IOD or CCD should be the one set low) and VDDP should be set as low as they go - I think this came from users over on OCN. I think there is some merit to this claim as setting one of the VDDGs (again, sorry can't remember which) and VDDP low to about 0.95V and 0.9V respectively did make my stornvme errors and POST failures go away on my 3700X. The symptoms didn't come back, right up until I sold the 3700X.

I've not seen this behaviour on my 5900X yet, despite no other hardware having been changed aside from CPU.


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 5, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> I have my SOC offset at 0.0125+, SoC at 1.175v, CCD/IOD @ 1.09v, VDDP @ 1.05v.
> 
> But I have top tier cooling so bear that in mind.


I don't really worry about cooling. On my EK AIO and good case airflow, I never see temps go over 80c on OCCT or Realbench, regardless of all core overclock or PBO/CO. 



tabascosauz said:


> I'm not sure exactly whether yours is cores- or SOC-related, but from my Matisse experience the failed cold starts until CMOS reset came as a result of pushing IF too hard (3733 for my old crappy 3700X). Sometimes I had issues with my SN750 disappearing from Windows with a stornvme error, as soon as I restarted upon seeing the drive disappear, it would fail to POST.
> 
> I'm much more leery now about the CLDOs than I used to be. The conventional wisdom from the Memtesthelper guide is that the VDDGs should be about 0.04-0.05V lower than VSOC as they are derived from it (taking into account different SMU and SVI2 measurements of VSOC and droop), but I'm not so sure that is the right call. The recommended ranges for VDDG and VDDP never worked on my 3700X, either to enable stable 3733 operation, or to prevent the SN750 from dropping out, or the occasional cold start POST failures.
> 
> ...


The IF is a good thing to explore. I have been pushing it pretty hard the last few days playing with some new ram.


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 5, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> The IF is a good thing to explore. I have been pushing it pretty hard the last few days playing with some new ram.



One thing I know for sure: when faced with IF issues, higher VSOC up to 1.2V *can* solve your problems, but don't automatically jump to adding more VSOC - the CLDOs can play as big if not a bigger role. First knee-jerk reaction for early Ryzen 3000 adopters especially was to bump VSOC in the event that x RAM speed wasn't stable, which didn't make for a very consistent and effective solution even though it worked better for legacy Ryzen (Zen and Zen+).

It'll depend on your chip and its quality, but once the initial "moar VSOC" bandwagon was over, a lot of people were surprised about just how much they could achieve on just 1.0-1.1V VSOC even in the 3800MT/s ballpark.

If you're running on the edge of IF stability though (ie 2000MHz), I'd probably go close to 1.2V.


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## biffzinker (Mar 5, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I'm not sure exactly whether yours is cores- or SOC-related, but from my Matisse experience the failed cold starts until CMOS reset came as a result of pushing IF too hard (3733 for my old crappy 3700X). Sometimes I had issues with my SN750 disappearing from Windows with a stornvme error, as soon as I restarted upon seeing the drive disappear, it would fail to POST.


So it’s IF related? I started having the missing boot drive every other post before nudging the SoC voltage.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 5, 2021)

This is how much I am winging it..

I have not touched any of those voltages 

Also never lost my drives, ever.. crazy. Asus must just make it easy? They took the adventure away


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 5, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> So it’s IF related? I started having the missing boot drive every other post before nudging the SoC voltage.



Didn't have it nearly as frequently as the two of you seem to suffer, and not on my boot drive. Probably about once every other month before I decided to lop off VDDG and VDDP a bit. 

At one point I was considering the possibility that my SN750 was bad, but then I realized that it had to be IF. My boot drive (SX8200) has always been in the chipset-wired slot of all places and never failed me. It's my SN750 that I added later into the CPU-wired slot that always had problems.



freeagent said:


> This is how much I am winging it..
> 
> I have not touched any of those voltages
> 
> Also never lost my drives, ever.. crazy. Asus must just make it easy? They took the adventure away



Well they clearly didn't make it easy, because this only ever happens on my Asus board


----------



## biffzinker (Mar 5, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Also never lost my drives, ever.. crazy. Asus must just make it easy? They took the adventure away


I doubt board brand has anything to do with how integrated everything is on the CPU now. Considering the nvme drive is hanging off the I/O die.

Edit: fixed post, typing on smartphone


----------



## dgianstefani (Mar 5, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> I don't really worry about cooling. On my EK AIO and good case airflow, I never see temps go over 80c on OCCT or Realbench, regardless of all core overclock or PBO/CO.
> 
> 
> The IF is a good thing to explore. I have been pushing it pretty hard the last few days playing with some new ram.


That's because 80c is the throttle limit.

My system doesn't go above 65.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 5, 2021)

I may need to review my cooling situation.


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 5, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> That's because 80c is the throttle limit.
> 
> My system doesn't go above 65.


I'm pretty sure the throttle limit is 90c or 95c. Can anyone confirm with a reliable link? I've set the manual throttle limit to 85c anyways. Honestly when I go back and look at screenshots, under the EK AIO my highest temp is 76c on OCCT and 74 on Realbench. The only time I reach 80c was with PBO enabled on a Cinebench R23 run where the vcore jumps up to 1.35v. Never over 74c on any bench run with all core manual overclocking under 4.7ghz.


----------



## dgianstefani (Mar 5, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> I'm pretty sure the throttle limit is 90c. I've set the manual throttle limit to 85c anyways. Honestly when I go back and look at screenshots, under the EK AIO my highest temp is 76c on OCCT and 74 on Realbench. The only time I reach 80c was with PBO enabled on a Cinebench R23 run where the vcore jumps up to 1.35v. Never over 74c on any bench run with all core manual overclocking under 4.7ghz.


Throttle limit yes, but ryzen boost reducing isn't technically throttling. If you want good boost frequencies, you keep it under 70c.


----------



## biffzinker (Mar 5, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> I'm pretty sure the throttle limit is 90c or 95c.


I thought I’ve seen the thermal throttle limit is 95c some where. Unable to locate the source.


----------



## dgianstefani (Mar 5, 2021)

Throttle, by definition, means going lower than advertised clock. PBO speeds are what suffers. Having the mindset that "as long as it's under 95c it's fine" is what causes you to miss out on 2-300mhz.


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 5, 2021)

I've found LLC plays a vital role on all core manual overclocking Ryzen. Anyone with info on how LLC works with PBO and CO?


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 5, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> I've found LLC plays a vital role on all core manual overclocking Ryzen. Anyone with info on how LLC works with PBO and CO?



iirc you don't want higher LLC for PB or PBO, boost algorithm takes droop into account.

Honestly though, lower LLC usually delivers cleaner power when you measure it with an oscilloscope. Unless the out of the box droop is absolutely insane and unusable, I personally wouldn't crank LLC up too much, esp. on lower mid-range, doubled 4-phase ASP1106G VRMs with 50A Vishay parts.

It's the current that kills Ryzens so it's fine to have say 1.35V set/idle that droops down to 1.28V at load if temps and current are in check.


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 5, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> iirc you don't want higher LLC for PB or PBO, boost algorithm takes droop into account.
> 
> Honestly though, lower LLC usually delivers cleaner power when you measure it with an oscilloscope. Unless the out of the box droop is absolutely insane and unusable, I personally wouldn't crank LLC up too much, esp. on lower mid-range, doubled 4-phase ASP1106G VRMs with 50A Vishay parts.
> 
> It's the current that kills Ryzens so it's fine to have say 1.35V set/idle that droops down to 1.28V at load if temps and current are in check.


Of course I can just check it on my own, but do you know where on the continuum the auto setting is on LLC with Asus B550 boards? I don't generally trust auto LLC so I tend to set it at 3 or 4.


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 5, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> Of course I can just check it on my own, but do you know where on the continuum the auto setting is on LLC with Asus B550 boards? I don't generally trust auto LLC so I tend to set it at 3 or 4.



I haven't played with all-core on my B550M TUF Wifi yet, but there's a review of the Strix-F and Strix-E where they use Level 4 LLC on the Strix-F for a 0.04V droop: ASUS ROG STRIX B550-E Gaming & B550-F Gaming (WiFi) – Page 8 – KitGuru

That's a pretty small droop so I guess Level 4 is starting to get aggressive

Not sure if they changed anything for newer Ryzen 5000 BIOSes. Definitely let me know how it goes; VRM-wise the TUF and the Strix-F should be near-identical. nevermind forgot the Strix-F is tripled


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Mar 6, 2021)

Hey y'all. I'm extremely green when it comes to overclocking, but I'm wondering if doing so will help squeeze out a few more FPS in Battlefront II, or if OCing is even really worth it nowdays. Anyway, since I don't trust myself enough to play around in the BIOS for my board, I've just been using the "Game Mode" preset in Ryzen Master. I have a Corsair H100i RGB PRO XT AIO, but am in the middle of swapping it out in favor of my Cooler Master MA610P tower cooler. It's a long story, but I'm basically doing it because iCUE is a resource pig and I only use it to change the RGB lighting on the CPU block... Anyway, I'm using the stock cooler that came with my 3600 in the meantime and I'm just wondering what temps are considered safe?


----------



## freeagent (Mar 6, 2021)

For max kick you right in the cores voltage?

I try to keep it under 85 worst possible case load you can imagine.

Its pretty tough to get up there unless you don't give a **** about cooling


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 6, 2021)

I have gone down to 1.270 volt, LLC Mode 6, 4500 all core no downclocking on my 5600x.  only a loss of 125 mhz but much colder and lower voltage.  125 mhz won't matter in games. so pretty happy with this.

even on single core boosts i only get 4750 max, i did not win the silicon lottery sadly. but it's all good, i'm pretty happy with these cold temps and low voltage, and basically the same performance in games.




PaulieG said:


> So, after getting a stable all core manual overclock of 4.7ghz @ 1.29v on my 5600x rock solid




if you are truly stable and not just talking smack, a 4.7 all core at 1.29v is a golden chip (what mode is your LLC at?), also in BIOS do you use "AMD Overclocking Mode" or some other kind of voltage mode to override the voltage? My mobo has like 4 to pick from, I never know which one to go with so I do AMD Overclocking, which has a override feature outside of the regular override one, I find it all extremely confusing why there are basically two of the same thing.. i'd leave it there and be happy. i have to use 1.360 volts to get 4625 stable, and it refuses to be stable above that regardless of voltage or temps.

you are pretty lucky to have such a nice chip.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 6, 2021)

I manually set core vid per ccx as well as its over ride, both values being equal, and no LLC for this chip it doesn't seem to help nor appreciate it. I will give it some time though and play with it. I could not get 4700 with 1.25-1.325v. It will run sure, but I cant run everything. It is almost like it is programmed to not go over a certain speed continuously. I could boot into windows @ 4900 no problem too. But some guys are saying they cant run 4600 so maybe it still continues to be luck of the draw.. It can handle 2 sticks of ram pretty good. It is 3200C14 running at 4200 C16 1:1.. pretty crazy. It is everything stable so far. Since I updated my bios I have to work a little harder with 4 sticks, so I am just running 2 for now.


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 6, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I manually set core vid per ccx as well as its over ride, both values being equal, and no LLC for this chip it doesn't seem to help nor appreciate it. I will give it some time though and play with it. I could not get 4700 with 1.25-1.325v. It will run sure, but I cant run everything. It is almost like it is programmed to not go over a certain speed continuously. I could boot into windows @ 4900 no problem too. But some guys are saying they cant run 4600 so maybe it still continues to be luck of the draw.. It can handle 2 sticks of ram pretty good. It is 3200C14 running at 4200 C16 1:1.. pretty crazy. It is everything stable so far. Since I updated my bios I have to work a little harder with 4 sticks, so I am just running 2 for now.




i thought zen 3 had a cap of 4000 2000:1... that's what I am running out with my ram OC.

hmm interesting. well im just glad im stable with my ram where it is so im not going to mess with it.  my 4625 all core was stable in everything at 1.360v... i think i will turn off LLC though, i think you are correct on that front.

im leaving it where it is for now.  i love the extra extra cold temps im getting at 1.270 volt and strong fan curve, 4.5ghz versus 4.7ghz is really not noticeable in any real world scenario anyway, maybe a 5 fps gain in games at 1080p. but really its the screaming ram we have that is making the biggest difference for fps.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 6, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> i thought zen 3 had a cap of 4000 2000:1... that's what I am running out with my ram OC.
> 
> hmm interesting. well im just glad im stable with my ram where it is so im not going to mess with it.  my 4625 all core was stable in everything at 1.360v... i think i will turn off LLC though, i think you are correct on that front.
> 
> im leaving it where it is for now.  i love the extra extra cold temps im getting at 1.270 volt and strong fan curve, 4.5ghz versus 4.7ghz is really not noticeable in any real world scenario anyway, maybe a 5 fps gain in games at 1080p. but really its the screaming ram we have that is making the biggest difference for fps.


I know man, I thought I was going crazy lol.




I ran some linpack too but no pic.


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 6, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I know man, I thought I was going crazy lol.
> 
> View attachment 191132View attachment 191133View attachment 191134
> 
> I ran some linpack too but no pic.



Only thing being proved by running HCI is that your B-die is stable at 4200 16-16-16 (looks good, tighten tRC a bit). It says nothing about how your IF is doing. Only time and generally using your PC will tell you that. Use your computer, keep an eye out for weird behaviour, keep an eye out for disk/Windows errors and WHEA.

Still sounds like you're hitting a frequency wall, no point constantly butting up against it and benching a fat ton of current every day through your chip in AVX LinX.

As for not being stable in some workloads, that's why the stock chips downclock so hard in Prime95. They wouldn't last two weeks if they treated it like SSE all-core.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 6, 2021)

Thanks, yeah that was an early run, it will run 286. Ok so I took it off the 1 speed 1 voltage thingy. And I think I may have found a secret button..





Edit:

Not sure if I could figure out how to get it over 4850, I tried increasing the value but nada. Is this where X570 comes into play?


----------



## ViperXTR (Mar 6, 2021)

Worth updating to AGESA 1.2.0.1?
This contains the fix for L3 bandwidth test issue last time, is it only for that test or L3 in general i wonder

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364971430337740804


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 6, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


> Worth updating to AGESA 1.2.0.1?
> This contains the fix for L3 bandwidth test issue last time, is it only for that test or L3 in general i wonder
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364971430337740804




yes this new bios is worth it.  i upgraded my x570 tomahawk yesterday. its the first time i have ever been able to OC my ram to 4000 2000:1 2x16gb... IT USED TO LET ME, but then it wouldnt let me OC CPU or enable SAM, but this new BIOS allows me to do all 3 no issues at all, rock solid stable...  AMD finally nailed it. at least for my setup.


----------



## ViperXTR (Mar 6, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> yes this new bios is worth it.  i upgraded my x570 tomahawk yesterday. its the first time i have ever been able to OC my ram to 4000 2000:1 2x16gb... IT USED TO LET ME, but then it wouldnt let me OC CPU or enable SAM, but this new BIOS allows me to do all 3 no issues at all, rock solid stable...  AMD finally nailed it. at least for my setup.


Some reports also say its running slightly cooler and removes the core clock cap for the boost? Its already available on my board, but still in beta, will probably just wait for the non beta release


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 6, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


> Some reports also say its running slightly cooler and removes the core clock cap for the boost? Its already available on my board, but still in beta, will probably just wait for the non beta release



mine is the beta variant too. it takes them a long time to release non beta. i can assure you its rock solid, our mobo's share same BIOS.  i recommend you install it.

i can't comment on the boost, as i dont use boost i use an all core OC


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 6, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I haven't played with all-core on my B550M TUF Wifi yet, but there's a review of the Strix-F and Strix-E where they use Level 4 LLC on the Strix-F for a 0.04V droop: ASUS ROG STRIX B550-E Gaming & B550-F Gaming (WiFi) – Page 8 – KitGuru
> 
> That's a pretty small droop so I guess Level 4 is starting to get aggressive
> 
> Not sure if they changed anything for newer Ryzen 5000 BIOSes. Definitely let me know how it goes; VRM-wise the TUF and the Strix-F should be near-identical. nevermind forgot the Strix-F is tripled


Nice review. Good to know I'm not the only one who doesn't like the way Asus does LLC on this platform. I'm probably giving it too much and driving my temps higher than they need to be. I'll be trying to nail the vdroop for each level, maybe this weekend.


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 6, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Thanks, yeah that was an early run, it will run 286. Ok so I took it off the 1 speed 1 voltage thingy. And I think I may have found a secret button..



tRC, not tRFC  not that it should make nearly as much difference as tRFC, but 75 is pretty loose



PaulieG said:


> Nice review. Good to know I'm not the only one who doesn't like the way Asus does LLC on this platform. I'm probably giving it too much and driving my temps higher than they need to be. I'll be trying to nail the vdroop for each level, maybe this weekend.



Think you might have made a little mistake on entering the timings on the Rev.E - Rev.E doesn't scale tRP so you're going to have to run it at 18, not 16. You can definitely do tRCDWR same as tCL at 16 though, just not tRCDRD and tRP because it's not B-die. Chances are you'll probably manage to make it stable at 4000 16-18-18. i'm clearly retarded, goes to show that coffee =! sleep


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 6, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Think you might have made a little mistake on entering the timings on the Rev.E - Rev.E doesn't scale tRP so you're going to have to run it at 18, not 16. You can definitely do tRCDWR same as tCL at 16 though, just not tRCDRD and tRP because it's not B-die. Chances are you'll probably manage to make it stable at 4000 16-18-18. i'm clearly retarded, goes to show that coffee =! sleep


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 6, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> tRC, not tRFC  not that it should make nearly as much difference as tRFC, but 75 is pretty loose
> 
> 
> 
> Think you might have made a little mistake on entering the timings on the Rev.E - Rev.E doesn't scale tRP so you're going to have to run it at 18, not 16. You can definitely do tRCDWR same as tCL at 16 though, just not tRCDRD and tRP because it's not B-die. Chances are you'll probably manage to make it stable at 4000 16-18-18. i'm clearly retarded, goes to show that coffee =! sleep




any recommendations for me tightening my b-die ram?  2x16gb 3200 cas 14-14-14 OC'd to 4000 2000 fclk 16-16-16

what values should i try to mess with a bit to tighten it a little?


----------



## Mussels (Mar 6, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> It just doesn't make sense to me. I pass everything, and I can go hours and hours of daily tasks, streaming, everything. No signs of instability whatsoever. It isn't until I turn the computer off and leave it off for several hours that this occurs.
> 
> As far as the manual OC goes, I posted a couple of weeks ago about the big jump in voltage needed for anything over 4.6ghz. Needed just 1.14v for 4.4,ghz 1.16v for 4.5ghz, 1.24v for 4.6ghz and 1.29v for 4.7ghz. My line in the sand on these chips is 1.3v, so I never really messed with 4.8ghz.



wait... bad CMOS battery?



PaulieG said:


> I'm pretty sure the throttle limit is 90c or 95c. Can anyone confirm with a reliable link? I've set the manual throttle limit to 85c anyways. Honestly when I go back and look at screenshots, under the EK AIO my highest temp is 76c on OCCT and 74 on Realbench. The only time I reach 80c was with PBO enabled on a Cinebench R23 run where the vcore jumps up to 1.35v. Never over 74c on any bench run with all core manual overclocking under 4.7ghz.



i've seen 90C on my 5800x, throttle is 90


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 6, 2021)

Mussels said:


> wait... bad CMOS battery?



Bad battery? Didn't think of that. Would be odd on a new board, but if the increasing the SOC voltage doesn't help, I'll look into that next.


----------



## harm9963 (Mar 7, 2021)

Haven't bench in a while, for my new ASUS DARK HERO.


----------



## thesmokingman (Mar 7, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> Bad battery? Didn't think of that. Would be odd on a new board, but if the increasing the SOC voltage doesn't help, I'll look into that next.


Do a full shutdown, wait a minute then boot up. 

If it does it again then it might be a memory training issue. It doesn't look like AMD supports memory training disabling like on Intel back in the days, so it might be unavoidable.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 8, 2021)

I loaded my ram for the night, I though it was ok before, still no errors so I can I can move forward


----------



## INSTG8R (Mar 8, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I loaded my ram for the night, I though it was ok before, still no errors so I can I can move forward
> 
> View attachment 191537


Congrats on hitting 2000! I am just happy my 3600 runs at 3800 for 1900 as close I am gonna get to the max without better RAM...


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 8, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I loaded my ram for the night, I though it was ok before, still no errors so I can I can move forward
> 
> View attachment 191537


Humor me. Run OCCT for an hour both on cpu and memory test and see if you get any WHEA errors. I tested over 4000/2000 just like you did here running for hours successfully but failed OCCT with around 100 WHEA errors after 45 minutes on both tests.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 8, 2021)

INSTG8R said:


> Congrats on hitting 2000! I am just happy my 3600 runs at 3800 for 1900 as close I am gonna get to the max without better RAM...


Thanks man! I still have my 3600XT and she was good at 1900/1900 too, and with 4 sticks! I havent been able to do that with this one yet.. but like I said before.. once I got to 2000 I gave up on the idea of four sticks, because I had already made of the gain that you would get from dual rank



PaulieG said:


> Humor me. Run OCCT for an hour both on cpu and memory test and see if you get any WHEA errors. I tested over 4000 just like you did here running for hours successfully but failed OCCT with around 100 WHEA errors after 45 minutes on both tests.


I ran Linpack Xtreme, seems to get warmer then OCCT and is free..


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 8, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I ran Linpack Xtreme, seems to get warmer then OCCT and is free..


Hotter, yes but not nearly as good at picking up WHEA errors. Trust me.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 8, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> Hotter, yes but not nearly as good at picking up WHEA errors. Trust me.


Spotted errors!

Dammit.

So I have it at 2000 and I will let it go to see what happens, so far so good but I am only 2 minutes into the run. I also switched to a fixed frequency for testing.


----------



## INSTG8R (Mar 8, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Spotted errors!
> 
> Dammit.


Doh! Thankfully I’ve managed to avoid them BUT I will admit to not doing any real thorough stress tests like that to actually break things...I may have to actually run OCCT and join the club. I usually use AIDA64 which apparently pretty heavy and any attempts at messing with timings or speeds above 1900 have just instantly errored out.


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 8, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Spotted errors!
> 
> Dammit.
> 
> So I have it at 2000 and I will let it go to see what happens, so far so good but I am only 2 minutes into the run. I also switched to a fixed frequency for testing.


Really hated to rain on your parade. No matter what I did, I couldn't get any of my kits stable on higher than 4000/2000, even up to 1.45v on either of my B550 boards with OCCT. I spent hours and hours trying. I think it is the best program available for finding WHEA errors. Aida ran fine, Linpack and Realbench both passed for an hour. Not OCCT. Once I dropped to 4000/2000 or below, I passed no problem.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 8, 2021)

No its ok man. If you didn't do it I would have found out at some point. Really weird. Everything I ran said it was ok, and then this new program comes in to burst my bubble.

I am now starting all over. Maybe I had something too tight somewhere.. ugh. I briefly considered putting my other pair in.. but cant because there is no offset to my cooler, so I lose a dimm.

Might have to put LGMRT back in 

I wont give up yet. If this is a taste of what AM5 will be like sign me up. This beta is pretty sweet this time.

This program is pretty good. I had to start all over again, right from scratch. My 4600 at 1.225 was no good with the small data set and extreme setting. Bummer. I have the auto oc going for 4850, at the program settings I have listed cpu is running at 4550. So everything I thought I knew is wrong. Thanks Paul! 

Looks like 1966 it is..



Bummer do0d.


----------



## thesmokingman (Mar 8, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I wont give up yet. If this is a taste of what AM5 will be like sign me up. This beta is pretty sweet this time.


DDR5... yea no this isn't anything like that.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 8, 2021)

thesmokingman said:


> DDR5... yea no this isn't anything like that.


I wasn't talking about the memory so much, the whole thing is pretty great. I like this little system.


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 8, 2021)

freeagent said:


> No its ok man. If you didn't do it I would have found out at some point. Really weird. Everything I ran said it was ok, and then this new program comes in to burst my bubble.
> 
> I am now starting all over. Maybe I had something too tight somewhere.. ugh. I briefly considered putting my other pair in.. but cant because there is no offset to my cooler, so I lose a dimm.
> 
> ...




OCCT has always been my "go to" stability test ever since it first came out a decade ago. I just think it's more comprehensive than anything else and it's programmed to pick up the subtle errors that prime can miss. The only thing I don't like now is how they do the support pop up, and you can no longer buy the premium version outright like you could before. now it's a yearly subscription.

Realbench is pretty good too, just not quite as thorough. I prefer either of them to prime because they effectively test for stability without excess heat.


----------



## dont whant to set it"' (Mar 9, 2021)

This chip is kind of growing on me, on day one I arbitrarily set 45.75X multi for all-core oc and it turns out its the maximum I can get out of it under a decent ~25£ tower air cooler.

Sure , with a super premium air cooler or 240mm(or above) AIO I see it possible to cool it enough for 46X multiplier and maybe a little bit more  , but not much more without a infinite heatsink.

Yesterday it passed a 30 minutes loop at 38x multiplier at 975mV VID reaching 52 degrees C.

Now: 38x multi , 950mV VID , LLC 1 ,CPU vrm switching frequency 200KHz 250KHz.


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 9, 2021)

dont whant to set it' said:


> This chip is kind of growing on me, on day one I arbitrarily set 45.75X multi for all-core oc and it turns out its the maximum I can get out of it under a decent ~25£ tower air cooler.
> 
> Sure , with a super premium air cooler or 240mm(or above) AIO I see it possible to cool it enough for 46X multiplier and maybe a little bit more  , but not much more without a infinite heatsink.
> 
> ...


Try running an hour or 2 of OCCT or Realbench to see if she is really stable. Neither will overheat the chip. They will just find errors.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 9, 2021)

That program is funny. Not haha funny but.. funny. Every stress test program I have run said my settings were good. Windows had no error reports tucked away, games ran great, benches were record breaking for me lol. And then this app that constantly lets you know it wants to be paid says my oc is no good. Just kinda funny.. I dialed it back for now.. but this makes me want to investigate further.


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 9, 2021)

freeagent said:


> That program is funny. Not haha funny but.. funny. Every stress test program I have run said my settings were good. Windows had no error reports tucked away, games ran great, benches were record breaking for me lol. And then this app that constantly lets you know it wants to be paid says my oc is no good. Just kinda funny.. I dialed it back for now.. but this makes me want to investigate further.


I understand what you mean. If I hadn't used OCCT for years with the same type of characteristics BEFORE the support ad pop ups, I'd be suspicious too. I just think it's better at finding almost imperceptible errors than other programs. I mean, it gives me stable results just under what I thought was stable. It's not telling me outrageous info, like anything above stock is unstable. Try running Realbench which doesn't ask for a cent. It finds the same types of errors as OCCT about 80% of the time.

For what it's worth, I'm sure your OC was "everyday stable". Probably more stable than most people who claim high overclock stability. That type of stability isn't enough for me and my OCD. If it fails anything, that little voice  in my head won't let me leave it alone.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 9, 2021)

I know what you mean buddy, we have the same internal monologue lol. I know the errors are real because they disappear when I slow things down.. I was hoping I can trace it back to some subs but I have my doubts because I made things sloppy inside and it did help marginally but not enough to call it a success. I also tried to tweak llc a little to no avail. I thing If I want to go further I have to learn how Ryzen really works and get into the meat and potaters of it all and work some sploits.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 10, 2021)

This is exactly why many of us dont believe overclocks we see scattered around the web, because people go HURR ITS STABLE after 15 minutes of running MS paint (or whatever their favourite quick run is) and then the damn thing crashes and causes problems because its not truly stable. PCMR facebook group is non stop technical issues posts of people who think that because it turned on, its stable.

OCCT may just be the best way to really stress out zen chips, and should probably become our official tester


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 10, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> Humor me. Run OCCT for an hour both on cpu and memory test and see if you get any WHEA errors. I tested over 4000/2000 just like you did here running for hours successfully but failed OCCT with around 100 WHEA errors after 45 minutes on both tests.




running world of warcraft for even just 15 minutes will detect errors that memtest, 3dmark tests, and cinebench didn't detect.


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 10, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> running world of warcraft for even just 15 minutes will detect errors that memtest, 3dmark tests, and cinebench didn't detect.



Well yeah lol......there is no "test" out there for IF WHEAs......that's much less a reflection on WoW as a stress test and more on the frustration of troubleshooting something that's a pain in the ASS that can't be tested

Though in all fairness, gaming does seem to be the closest you can get to a "test" for it. My 3700X's Infinity Fabric *HATED* Insurgency Sandstorm. It isn't even that demanding of a game on the CPU.



lynx29 said:


> any recommendations for me tightening my b-die ram?  2x16gb 3200 cas 14-14-14 OC'd to 4000 2000 fclk 16-16-16
> 
> what values should i try to mess with a bit to tighten it a little?



try tRP+tRAS for an easy to achieve tRC

tRFC needs to be 160ns or lower at the very least if you don't want to torpedo your performance, which is tRFC 320 or lower at 4000 (I think 4000 is the only speed where tRFC is literally tRFC ns x 2)

hard to tell anything if you don't provide a zentimings picture


----------



## freeagent (Mar 10, 2021)

That's the thing though, I had no crashing, no instability, no windows error logs, nothing but great scores and lickety split performance. I used Linpack Xtreme, Memtest, Super Pi etc, everything was faneffing tastic.. till occt trolled my hood. Now I have to dial things back a bit.. spoil my good mood lol.. Ahh that's ok. It works, and its still faster than my 3770K.


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 10, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Well yeah lol......there is no "test" out there for IF WHEAs......that's much less a reflection on WoW as a stress test and more on the frustration of troubleshooting something that's a pain in the ASS that can't be tested
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I didn't like the 4000 OC, it was stable but eh I don't want to push it that hard. if you can help me tighten my 3600 cas 14-14-14 up though would be helpful.  nothing hardcore. i want a safe tightening. just tell me what numbers to change and I will give it a shot


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 10, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I didn't like the 4000 OC, it was stable but eh I don't want to push it that hard. if you can help me tighten my 3600 cas 14-14-14 up though would be helpful.  nothing hardcore. i want a safe tightening. just tell me what numbers to change and I will give it a shot



How much VDIMM are you pushing? For [relatively] "safe", try these at 3600:



Do any tRC between (inclusive) 50 and 60.

Then try a tRFC of 300 to start.

Can't really know for sure if you'll need more VDIMM, because if your current VDIMM is "barely" stable for those super loose timings, anything respectably tight might need more VDIMM. But I don't know what VDIMM you're running.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 10, 2021)

If it helps I can use these settings up to 1900/1900   

I can feels the dogs waiting to attack..


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Mar 10, 2021)

Here's mine. I'm assuming it's running @ stock


----------



## freeagent (Mar 10, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> View attachment 191777
> 
> Here's mine. I'm assuming it's running @ stock


Fit as a fiddle


----------



## dont whant to set it"' (Mar 10, 2021)

I did give OCCT a try and found errors it did witch I ruled out to be some RAM timmings, for all other real world testing my go to is to start two games and alt-tab between the two after a mission (or missions) in each : SC2 and GTA V with some cine R23 here and there trown in for a mix.


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 10, 2021)

New HWInfo now v7.0! Everybody spam that Update button  

One thing I noticed right off the bat is that Renoir iGPUs are showing a new voltage reading called VDDCR_GFX. I'm guessing it's derived from VSOC. Looks like it maxes out at about 0.981V, which makes a lot more sense than the previous "voltage" that topped out at 1.419V - clearly neither VSOC nor the actual voltage fed to the iGPU.

Oh and tooltips galore for every field, much info to look at


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 10, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> New HWInfo now v7.0! Everybody spam that Update button
> 
> One thing I noticed right off the bat is that Renoir iGPUs are showing a new voltage reading called VDDCR_GFX. I'm guessing it's derived from VSOC. Looks like it maxes out at about 0.981V, which makes a lot more sense than the previous "voltage" that topped out at 1.419V - clearly neither VSOC nor the actual voltage fed to the iGPU.
> 
> ...




just downloaded the portable variant of it, is there any benefit to 64 bit over 32 bit? i just use 32 bit because i figure it uses less resources but achieves the same goal... no idea though thats just me guessing all these years LOL


----------



## Mussels (Mar 10, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> just downloaded the portable variant of it, is there any benefit to 64 bit over 32 bit? i just use 32 bit because i figure it uses less resources but achieves the same goal... no idea though thats just me guessing all these years LOL


probably next to no difference, 32 bit needs to be emulated on 64 bit OS and likely uses more resources


----------



## Octopuss (Mar 10, 2021)

I love Hwinfo. If I wasn't broke I would buy it right away even though there's no need to. I've been using it, holy shit!, since the DOS days, and I just love it.


----------



## INSTG8R (Mar 10, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> I love Hwinfo. If I wasn't broke I would buy it right away even though there's no need to. I've been using it, holy shit!, since the DOS days, and I just love it.


Like me and AIDA64 I’ve been paying for it since it was Everest


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 10, 2021)

Fyi, newly released OCCT 8.0 now officially has stability testing built in for curve optimizer users. I guess that's both good and bad for some of us.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 10, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> Fyi, newly released OCCT 8.0 now officially has stability testing built in for curve optimizer users. I guess that's both good and bad for some of us.


Got it yesterday 

I nailed 1933 down but hurt my back this morning so not going to be hanging out at the desk much today.


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 10, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Got it yesterday
> 
> I nailed 1933 down but hurt my back this morning so not going to be hanging out at the desk much today.


Sorry to hear about your back. Feel better man.


----------



## Octopuss (Mar 10, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> Fyi, newly released OCCT 8.0 now officially has stability testing built in for curve optimizer users. I guess that's both good and bad for some of us.


Not very useful with 1 hour limit


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 10, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> Not very useful with 1 hour limit


Simply not true. OCCT will throw errors or fail if your OC is not stable, and it doesn't need an hour. I'm pretty confident about this... but prove me wrong.


----------



## Octopuss (Mar 10, 2021)

I presume the concept is similar to Prime95. If a test fails right away or within minutes, your settings are very, very wrong and barely past the point of booting successfully. You need at least a few hours to make sure it's stable.
It's like with the Linpack. Just because you do a few passes that take 10 minutes doesn't mean the PC is stable.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 10, 2021)

No not similar to prime or anything else really. You can use it like that sure, you can generate some impressive heat. But its not like other stress tests that I have used before. I haven't used it for 15 years or so because it wasn't like prime or similar. I kinda like it, I wouldn't pay for a subscription though. I would consider the option to purchase if it was like 5 bucks or something. I bet an AGESA update could fix the high speed errors. Its so close.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 10, 2021)

What he's saying is that for whatever reason, OCCT throws errors faster (especially WHEA) so 1 hour of it might equal 10 others of another program

Use OCCT and its 1 hour test to start, then throw your other tests at it later


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 10, 2021)

STABLE


----------



## freeagent (Mar 10, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> STABLE


Thanks for posting your zen timings shot! I was looking to see what was different other than timings and noticed the voltage.. I copied those settings and has been running for 10 minutes, usually spits errors within seconds.. yay


----------



## Octopuss (Mar 11, 2021)

I would test cores individually, because all core boost is always lower than single, thus possibly "hiding" instability with at higher frequencies.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Mar 11, 2021)

I've given up trying to get rid of WHEA errors. It seems like they will pop up every five days or so regardless of BIOS settings. Stock, undervolt, flashing different BIOS versions, it doesn't matter. At least they only happen on resume from sleep and don't seem to affect the system reliability.


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 11, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> I've given up trying to get rid of WHEA errors. It seems like they will pop up every five days or so regardless of BIOS settings. Stock, undervolt, flashing different BIOS versions, it doesn't matter. At least they only happen on resume from sleep and don't seem to affect the system reliability.



Are they still the Bus/Interconnect ones? Can't solve those by changing core overclocks, only Cache Hierarchy and a rare one I can't remember are on the cores part. Have you tried cutting down on unnecessary VSOC as well as VDDG CCD and VDDP? Starting to feel that it's a good rule to live by that unless you're aiming at 4000+ or are randomly rebooting, lower VSOC is almost always better. Less is more and all that jazz


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Mar 11, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Are they still the Bus/Interconnect ones? Can't solve those by changing core overclocks, only Cache Hierarchy and a rare one I can't remember are on the cores part. Have you tried cutting down on unnecessary VSOC as well as VDDG CCD and VDDP? Starting to feel that it's a good rule to live by that unless you're aiming at 4000+ or are randomly rebooting, lower VSOC is almost always better. Less is more and all that jazz



It doesn't say, but they don't seem to be core-specific WHEA errors. The SoC voltage according to hwinfo is set at 1.1V, not sure if that's high or low though.


----------



## Octopuss (Mar 11, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> I've given up trying to get rid of WHEA errors. It seems like they will pop up every five days or so regardless of BIOS settings. Stock, undervolt, flashing different BIOS versions, it doesn't matter. At least they only happen on resume from sleep and don't seem to affect the system reliability.


You should RMA the CPU and/or the board. Unless there are none on default settings of course.
WHEA errors are serious shit.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 11, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> I've given up trying to get rid of WHEA errors. It seems like they will pop up every five days or so regardless of BIOS settings. Stock, undervolt, flashing different BIOS versions, it doesn't matter. At least they only happen on resume from sleep and don't seem to affect the system reliability.


resume from sleep i would treat as a bug and not a stability issue - cant affect gaming or benching performance if it only occurs waking from sleep


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Mar 11, 2021)

Mussels said:


> resume from sleep i would treat as a bug and not a stability issue - cant affect gaming or benching performance if it only occurs waking from sleep



One thing I did notice is that, at least for the last two WHEA errors I had, they were both reported as the user "LOCAL SERVICE". They happened at different times but both had the same process ID. I checked Task Manager and none of the entries matched that ID number, but that's probably because the system has been restarted since those errors were posted.

Not much to go by but I might try to watch the error logs and catch a WHEA after it happens to see what the associated process is.



Octopuss said:


> You should RMA the CPU and/or the board. Unless there are none on default settings of course.
> WHEA errors are serious shit.



I get what you mean but doing an RMA would be such a pain in the ass. If there were unfixable crashing issues I would probably do it though.


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 11, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> I would test cores individually, because all core boost is always lower than single, thus possibly "hiding" instability with at higher frequencies.


Usually a single core instability will show itself in everyday activities. Once I'm multicore stable, I'll just go about daily tasks with youtube running endlessly for 24 hours. If there are no odd windows errors or reboots then I doubt there is any single core instability after passing a solid multicore stability test.


----------



## kapone32 (Mar 11, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> What the UA batch numbers for these two 3700X's?
> 
> Let's face it, 3000 was basically a beta test for AMD's chiplet design (of which Ryzen 5000 is the finished product), and AMD treated its product and us buyers as such. It wouldn't be surprising to start seeing more stability issues with time, from some of the initial lower binned CPUs / harder-worked CPUs. 3600 and 3700X got the worse end of the stick - there were some _really bad _3600s and 3700Xs in Q2 2019 and Q3 2019 production - like, 4.0 @ 1.3V bad.
> 
> ...


You mean the 3300X right?


----------



## freeagent (Mar 11, 2021)

I don't know.. it does what it is supposed to, 4650 all core @ stock, no PBO. I can add 200MHz with PBO.. its good enough for now.. I'm not really interested in hitting 5ghz on one core or anything like that.



PooPipeBoy said:


> I've given up trying to get rid of WHEA errors. It seems like they will pop up every five days or so regardless of BIOS settings. Stock, undervolt, flashing different BIOS versions, it doesn't matter. At least they only happen on resume from sleep and don't seem to affect the system reliability.


Does that happen under 2000 FCLK?


----------



## windwhirl (Mar 11, 2021)

AMD Finds a Fix for Ryzen's USB Problems, BIOS Patch Coming in Early April
					

Plugging in the fix




					www.tomshardware.com
				




If anyone suffered from those issues, a fix may be coming soon-ish.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Mar 11, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Does that happen under 2000 FCLK?



I just run the standard 3600/1800, it was running 3800/1900 just fine but I went back to standard settings to see where these errors (which haven't gone away) are coming from.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 11, 2021)

This CPU doesn't like my 4 sticks past 1833 or so.. Sometimes I can fluke it and get it to run 1866 or 1900 but more often than not 1833 is my cap with these 4 sticks. A real bummer since my 3600XT handles them no problem up to 1900/1900. So it spits errors at 1800 for you? If I run my subs too tight at known good speeds and voltages I can get it to error, maybe something in the memory dept is too tight? I suck at subs so I cant really offer any advice there. I see some peoples screen shots and mine would just crash lol.


----------



## phanbuey (Mar 11, 2021)

are you sure the mobo just doesnt like fastboot?  Try disabling that and see if you still get them...  I've seen quite a few rigs, intel and AMD throw cache errors on wake / cold fastboot start because of it.


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 12, 2021)

kapone32 said:


> You mean the 3300X right?



? Where'd you get 3300X from lol


----------



## Mussels (Mar 12, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> ? Where'd you get 3300X from lol


it was the first single CCX chip, not the 5800x


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 12, 2021)

Mussels said:


> it was the first single CCX chip, not the 5800x



I'm a little confused, I don't think I ever mentioned either the 3300X or 5800X in that post. Probably a misquote somewhere. 



PooPipeBoy said:


> It doesn't say, but they don't seem to be core-specific WHEA errors. The SoC voltage according to hwinfo is set at 1.1V, not sure if that's high or low though.



Post up a Zentimings screenie, let's see those minor voltages.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 12, 2021)

i vaguely remember a comment the single CCX chip being a beta test

i dont care enough to see if it was this thread or not, i just think i understood what he meant


----------



## ViperXTR (Mar 12, 2021)

AGESA 1.2.0.2 coming to fix the USB issue

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/m2wqkf





Sorry, but your post seems to match the mood of your avatar pic >_>
Jokes aside, i have yet to experience these WHEA issues but i see many others experience it as well, for 5600X and 5800X, maybe bad combo of cpu, board and memory perhaps (i also use the exact same 32GB brand speed model and frequency and CL)


----------



## Alyjen (Mar 12, 2021)

Any of you experienced sound issues? Last week my old but faithfull Sound Blaster Z started acting strange, after 1-2h of Warzone (which is crashing normal computers and for me it haven't crashed once) sound suddenly become distorted, lots of crackling for louder sounds, not so bad for other sounds , simple game restarted fixed the issue.

I did all the usual drivers & other updates, got new Creative Control app (which is pretty nice) and also did some reading one pcie gen4 impact on USB not also other pcie devices like sound cards. Yesterday I had 2h session without any errors. Additionally I ran stress test on CPU & GPU at the same time for an hour and played music in the background, also no issues, no whea errors everything was fine... so yea  I wonder if it's AMD or Creative or just bad Warzone update.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 12, 2021)

No issues here, just using onboard sound right now though.. I got 10 years out of my Auzentech Prelude, which uses creative hardware. Just stopped working after it crashed my computer.. it could be on its way out.. or it could just be the update..


----------



## Alyjen (Mar 12, 2021)

Yea I don't really want to use onboard, not that I could spot the difference but I use stereo speakers & headset and with Sound Blaster I can switch via them with software  I seems small but it's super important feature. Same goes for some usb DACs, it's hard to run speakers & headset & mic at the same time.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 12, 2021)

Alyjen said:


> Yea I don't really want to use onboard, not that I could spot the difference but I use stereo speakers & headset and with Sound Blaster I can switch via them with software  I seems small but it's super important feature. Same goes for some usb DACs, it's hard to run speakers & headset & mic at the same time.


Oh yeah you can do that too. I have headphones and desktop speakers hooked up through the onboard, and then I have my GTX 980 connected to my AVR for a much larger sound


----------



## Alyjen (Mar 12, 2021)

oh AVR I have in another room now, but this sound very promising in case my SBZ goes down


----------



## windwhirl (Mar 12, 2021)

Alyjen said:


> I use stereo speakers & headset and with Sound Blaster I can switch via them with software


You can do that with Realtek onboard audio. You just have to configure it to duplicate the audio stream on both outputs (front and rear jacks in my case), IIRC, and then in the volume tray icon you get the choice to swap between headphones and speakers.


----------



## Alyjen (Mar 12, 2021)

windwhirl said:


> You can do that with Realtek onboard audio. You just have to configure it to duplicate the audio stream on both outputs (front and rear jacks in my case), IIRC, and then in the volume tray icon you get the choice to swap between headphones and speakers.


Thanks! I'll check it. I got used to this way of working when my PC was under TV connected to AVR & headset and if I wanted to switch from AVR to headphones I'd have to get up and walk few steps to plug them in, then I discovered that my Sound Blaster can do it


----------



## toilet pepper (Mar 12, 2021)

I experienced all those issues when I first got the Aorus B550i board with a R5 3600. My USB headset was cutting in and out, so I tried an analog headset with a mic and it was the same thing. I wasn't using a Gen4 SSD then but was using a 3080. I was experiencing random crashes and hundreds of events in Event Viewer.

I downgraded the bios from F13c AGESA 1.2.0.0 to F12 AGESA 1.1.0.0D and had no crashes since. I still have hundreds of things in Event Viewer though.


----------



## Alyjen (Mar 12, 2021)

Damn.. that's way worse than my experience. So far 5h in after drivers update & changing pcie to gen 3 and not a single issue. I may leave it like this for a weekend and then change back to gen 4 to be sure this was the cause, or if nothing happens then drivers were guilty.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 12, 2021)

I've just always clicked the tray icon and switched sound cards on the fly

With few rare exceptions (like streaming DD/DTS over optical which i now just disable) its always let me swap between them easily

The upcoming agesa should solve the sound crackling issues


----------



## jormungand (Mar 12, 2021)

Hello guys, im upgrading to this and since i know nothing about ryzen i will like if you have time to give me some advise.
im not planning to do some crazy oc to the cpu or the ram just a decent oc if possible and keep things steady.
No idea if reusing my ram (corsair lpx 2x8gb 3000 c15) will be a good idea, if not recommendations are welcome too. thanks 
i got the 
ryzen 5600x 
Msi Tomahawk b550
and gonna switch the cpu cooler for the Vetroo V5


----------



## Mussels (Mar 13, 2021)

jormungand said:


> Hello guys, im upgrading to this and since i know nothing about ryzen i will like if you have time to give me some advise.
> im not planning to do some crazy oc to the cpu or the ram just a decent oc if possible and keep things steady.
> No idea if reusing my ram (corsair lpx 2x8gb 3000 c15) will be a good idea, if not recommendations are welcome too. thanks
> i got the
> ...



That ram isn't great for compatibility with ryzen, but it WILL work - you may just have to raise the SoC voltage if you have issues

Stick with stock, maybe tweak PBO values for the extra 200Mhz boost, if you're gaming. all core OC is for rendering etc, it slows the single threaded performance.


----------



## jormungand (Mar 13, 2021)

Mussels said:


> That ram isn't great for compatibility with ryzen, but it WILL work - you may just have to raise the SoC voltage if you have issues
> 
> Stick with stock, maybe tweak PBO values for the extra 200Mhz boost, if you're gaming. all core OC is for rendering etc, it slows the single threaded performance.


yeah gaming is the main purpose of my rig, im gonna give it a try to that ram kit and see how works.
meanwhile i have a question or questions ,
installing the latest bios is 1st thing i should do, no?


----------



## Mussels (Mar 13, 2021)

update BIOS first, right away

That'll help with any RAM issues, too


----------



## jormungand (Mar 13, 2021)

Mussels said:


> update BIOS first, right away
> 
> That'll help with any RAM issues, too


Ill do, im putting together the system tomorrow morning, i need to download and prepare the usb drive with the bios.
i wanted to make sure im not skipping any step. thanks

its this bios good, says beta version so im wondering if going with a beta version wont bring issues or is best to try the one before
7C91vA61(Beta version)


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 13, 2021)

jormungand said:


> Ill do, im putting together the system tomorrow morning, i need to download and prepare the usb drive with the bios.
> i wanted to make sure im not skipping any step. thanks



Should boot just fine if you bought the board in the past few weeks and not last year. 7C91vA3 or later will boot Ryzen 5000 without any teething issues. Probably load up 7C91vA5 on a USB just in case the board did ship with an older BIOS; the upcoming 1202 release AGESA BIOSes should be hitting board vendors soon, so no reason to play the beta game with the "latest" beta 1201 BIOS (7C91vA61).

Not really anything else, cooler looks plenty for a 5600X. The RAM is a bit of an unknown (3000CL15 suggests old Rev.E which honestly you can do a lot worse for Ryzen compatibility, but it could also be a ton of other ICs), there's only one way to find out if it works.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 13, 2021)

Ohh your gonna like it man.. she's a ripper for sure!


----------



## jormungand (Mar 13, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Should boot just fine if you bought the board in the past few weeks and not last year. 7C91vA3 or later will boot Ryzen 5000 without any teething issues. Probably load up 7C91vA5 on a USB just in case the board did ship with an older BIOS; the upcoming 1202 release AGESA BIOSes should be hitting board vendors soon, so no reason to play the beta game with the "latest" beta 1201 BIOS (7C91vA61).
> 
> Not really anything else, cooler looks plenty for a 5600X. The RAM is a bit of an unknown (3000CL15 suggests old Rev.E which honestly you can do a lot worse for Ryzen compatibility, but it could also be a ton of other ICs), there's only one way to find out if it works.


ok im gonna download the 7C91vA5 and have it ready, im ready to go for a corsair vengeance rgb 3200 c16 tomorrow morning, 
 its the only ram bestbuy  have in stock, no idea why tha f
or ordering a gskill from amazon in case that ram kit is a pain


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 13, 2021)

jormungand said:


> ok im gonna download the 7C91vA5 and have it ready, im ready to go for a corsair vengeance rgb 3200 c16 tomorrow morning,
> its the only ram bestbuy  have in stock, no idea why tha f
> or ordering a gskill from amazon in case that ram kit is a pain



What G.skill kit? You probably should forgo the the Vengeance RGB, it's at best a sidegrade if anything in both performance and compatibility. Just try to work with your current kit, if it doesn't work out then order something G.skill.

Ryzen has gotten better with memory compatibility with every successive generation, obviously Corsair has probably the worst track record but it's not something you should worry so much over before you've even started.


----------



## jormungand (Mar 13, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> What G.skill kit? You probably should forgo the the Vengeance RGB, it's at best a sidegrade if anything in both performance and compatibility. Just try to work with your current kit, if it doesn't work out then order something G.skill.
> 
> Ryzen has gotten better with memory compatibility with every successive generation, obviously Corsair has probably the worst track record but it's not something you should worry so much over before you've even started.








						G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) (PC4 25600) F4-3200C16D-16GTZR at Amazon.com
					

Buy G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) (PC4 25600) F4-3200C16D-16GTZR: Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com
				



any good?? even though ill try mine first of course


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Mar 13, 2021)

@tabascosauz

Here ya go:













Seems fine to me. Haven't had a WHEA for a few days but I'm waiting for the next ones to pop up.


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 13, 2021)

jormungand said:


> G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) (PC4 25600) F4-3200C16D-16GTZR at Amazon.com
> 
> 
> Buy G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) (PC4 25600) F4-3200C16D-16GTZR: Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> ...



US? It looks like RAM decided to be expensive again, all the prices for decent stuff are doodoo.

*If *you end up needing to get a new kit, anything 3200CL16 is going to be just as much a lottery, no point in getting something mediocre if you do have to buy a kit. For more confidence in compatibility try these B-die kits:

G.Skill Flare X Series 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL14 Memory (F4-3200C14D-16GFX) - PCPartPicker
G.Skill Trident Z 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory (F4-3600C16D-16GTZKW) - PCPartPicker

Crucial's new Ballistix (BL2K8G36C16U4B/U4W/U4R, black white and red respectively) are $40 cheaper. Good compatibility and OC potential.

Crucial Ballistix 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory (BL2K8G36C16U4B) - PCPartPicker

Scratch the single rank talk, I forgot we're talking about 2x8GB so everything will be single rank. In any event the new Crucial stuff is a good pick if you consider the B-die too expensive (which it honestly is for 2x8GB). A bit less attractive than B-die from a performance standpoint if you were considering 2x16GB, but you're not so it's fine.



PooPipeBoy said:


> @tabascosauz
> 
> Here ya go:
> 
> Seems fine to me. Haven't had a WHEA for a few days but I'm waiting for the next ones to pop up.



2x16GB kit? Can you snag a photo of the product info sticker on one of the DIMMs, specifically the code string beginning in 042 somewhere around the barcode? Or just jot down the last 5 digits, 4 numbers plus a letter (e.g. B-die would be 8810B, CJR would be 8821C)

Is that 43.6ohm Auto procODT on Asus? Not familiar with what G.skill puts in its 2x16GB 3600CL18, but that procODT looks low for any 8Gb dual rank stick. Usually auto procODT defaults to 40-ish only for single rank sticks, dual rank 8Gb usually goes straight to 60ohm on Asus and Gigabyte. Unless G.skill is using a new Samsung or Micron 16Gb IC, which would explain the CL18 timings.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Mar 13, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> 2x16GB kit? Can you snag a photo of the product info sticker on one of the DIMMs, specifically the code string beginning in 042 somewhere around the barcode? Or just jot down the last 5 digits, 4 numbers plus a letter (e.g. B-die would be 8810B, CJR would be 8821C)
> 
> Is that 43.6ohm Auto procODT on Asus? Not familiar with what G.skill puts in its 2x16GB 3600CL18, but that procODT looks low for any 8Gb dual rank stick. Usually auto procODT defaults to 40-ish only for single rank sticks, dual rank 8Gb usually goes straight to 60ohm on Asus and Gigabyte. Unless G.skill is using a new Samsung or Micron 16Gb IC, which would explain the CL18 timings.



Yep they're a 2x16GB kit coded as 04213X8821C (CJR). Thaiphoon reads the IC's as Hynix 8 Gb D-die on dual rank modules:





It looks like ProcODT is auto configured, it may be worthwhile bumping it up to 50 or 60 ohms as the next step to see if that changes anything.


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 13, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Yep they're a 2x16GB kit coded as 04213X8821C (CJR). Thaiphoon reads the IC's as Hynix 8 Gb D-die on dual rank modules:
> 
> View attachment 192200
> 
> It looks like ProcODT is auto configured, it may be worthwhile bumping it up to 50 or 60 ohms as the next step to see if that changes anything.



You on a 1200 AGESA BIOS right now?

The sticks should be near-identical to my 32GB Trident Z RGB. Far as I can tell the 042 code hasn't proven to be wrong yet, unlike Corsair's rev number. Same as mine, dual rank 8821C CJR, misidentified as DJR by Thaiphoon. Mine are XMP'd 3600 17-19-19 at 1.35. maybe just a lower bin

4 boards, 3 CPUs, any AGESA, I've never seen my CJR auto to anything other than 60ohms. My dual rank 4Gb E-die runs 53.3, my single rank Bdie 43.6. I'm skeptical that itll solve your WHEAs since procODT usually remedies no-POST or mem instability, but it's something at least


----------



## jormungand (Mar 14, 2021)

i did all the installation, even clicked on a-xmp profile and got my ram working to 3000, but my worries are now on the temps from the cpu
supposedly the vetroo v5 is reported to run 60-65-70 highest 
Even Jayz tested it 







my surprise is that im reaching 80-82c like i was using the stock cooler.
the nzxt 510 is not an optimal airflow case but never thought on reaching those temps, even i managed the fan profiles on cpu fan and syst fans and nothing
no idea what im doing wrong or is just the cpu cooler?? 
tested BFV and Cyberpunk 2077 same temps on both


----------



## Mussels (Mar 14, 2021)

jormungand said:


> i did all the installation, even clicked on a-xmp profile and got my ram working to 3000, but my worries are now on the temps from the cpu
> supposedly the vetroo v5 is reported to run 60-65-70 highest
> Even Jayz tested it
> 
> ...


I had to scroll up to see the CPU, 5600x

They arent super hot like the 5800x, but i'd not worry about anything under 80C under load
light loads run hotter than you'd expect, since they boost the voltage hard during single threaded stuff


----------



## freeagent (Mar 14, 2021)

Seems to run cooler than my 3600XT.. I think my kid played a game for a bit.


----------



## jormungand (Mar 14, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I had to scroll up to see the CPU, 5600x
> 
> They arent super hot like the 5800x, but i'd not worry about anything under 80C under load
> light loads run hotter than you'd expect, since they boost the voltage hard during single threaded stuff


is not holding under 80, is going over mostly in bfv is at 81c and staying there. Since i spent xtra for the cpu cooler i feel like was worthless.
i plan to return it and going for this. im still at shock here
i updated my specs, sorry for the inconvenience
https://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NH-D1...child=1&keywords=noctua&qid=1615685088&sr=8-3


			https://www.amazon.com/NOCTUA-NH-U12A-Ventilateurs-NF-A12x25-performants/dp/B07PN4RDW3/ref=sr_1_14?dchild=1&keywords=noctua&qid=1615685218&sr=8-14


----------



## Mussels (Mar 14, 2021)

Get the D15, total overkill!

These chips are heat dense. they'll never read or run as cold as previous gen chips (especially intels) no matter how overkill your cooling is

5600x will do better than my 5800x, but i'd still expect 70C all core load no matter what


----------



## freeagent (Mar 14, 2021)

Oh yeah.. even with a big cooler they will still hit close to 80 or more..


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 14, 2021)

jormungand said:


> is not holding under 80, is going over mostly in bfv is at 81c and staying there. Since i spent xtra for the cpu cooler i feel like was worthless.
> i plan to return it and going for this. im still at shock here
> i updated my specs, sorry for the inconvenience
> https://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NH-D1...child=1&keywords=noctua&qid=1615685088&sr=8-3
> ...



I don't think I've completely figured it out yet, but my 5900X by far is hottest in 1-6 core _gaming loads only_. Nothing else comes close. I have a NH-C14S with a strong iPPC-2000 NF-A14 fan that intakes directly from a vented side panel, with a vented top for natural exhaust as well a NF-A9 out the back. In smaller cases, the C14S can outperform the U12A.

MW 2019: 80-85C, regularly
War Thunder: 78C
Genshin: 73C
Project Reality (!!! frickin 2005 game): 80C

Prime95 Small: 68C
Cinebench: 72C
Cinebench ST: 60C
CPU-Z: 69C
Video encode: 72C

I'm thinking it's the single-core frequency (high enough clocks alone can account for higher temps too, irregardless of Vcore or power) , in combination with extra heat rising from the GPU, that causes the momentary spikes in temperature. It certainly isn't helped by the thermal density.

If you have a second monitor, leave HWInfo open while you play. Chances are, you will see a fleeting 81C on CCD1 every once in a while, but Tctl/Tdie will usually fluctuate in the 70-75C region. It's these spikes that are getting logged in the Maximum value column, but your chip probably isn't sitting at 81C like it seems to suggest.


----------



## jormungand (Mar 14, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Get the D15, total overkill!
> 
> These chips are heat dense. they'll never read or run as cold as previous gen chips (especially intels) no matter how overkill your cooling is
> 
> 5600x will do better than my 5800x, but i'd still expect 70C all core load no matter what


70 is understandable but going from reviews and tests from that cpu cooler saying its running a 5900x at 68c top open bench,
wow vs a 5600x i thought i was gonna get those temps or close to 70c in my case at 75F in my house, damn
the stuff flew directly to 81c, like boom directly on my face.
Ive been planning on grabbing the lian li lancool mesh II, i will have options to use aio too ,
 like the artic freezer 280 that GN recommends for ryzen cpus or just going air cooling that i always prefer that way. 
Since that case has better airflow can improve a little the temps. Ive never like h510 but was a cheap deal i got.


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 14, 2021)

jormungand said:


> 70 is understandable but going from reviews and tests from that cpu cooler saying its running a 5900x at 68c top open bench,
> wow vs a 5600x i thought i was gonna get those temps or close to 70c in my case at 75F in my house, damn
> the stuff flew directly to 81c, like boom directly on my face.
> Ive been planning on grabbing the lian li lancool mesh II, i will have options to use aio too ,
> ...



5900X is, in the most simplistic sense, a better 5600X taped to a crappier 5600X all under 1 heatspreader. Low thread count loads always go to the better CCD, and the crappier CCD is always made to clock lower. So the 5600X and 5900X will behave about the same.

The vast majority of these reviewers are used to more conventional CPUs, where the hottest temperatures come from full all-core load. The TPU review lists temperatures running Blender; the 6-core chiplet SKUs sit at about 70C max in those loads under any decent cooler. But when you start playing CPU-bound (or older, stupidly single-threaded and CPU-bound) games that sustain long-term maximum effective clock on a single core, the temp spikes start climbing.

It's a lot more liberal in making use of its temp envelope than Ryzen 3000. 5600X is allowed up to 95C by AMD. As long as you're not pushing more current (via all-core OC or some PBO configs) than the PB algorithm restricts through the core at those temps, longevity won't be an issue.


----------



## jjnissanpatfan (Mar 14, 2021)

I have Cooler Master - Hyper 212 with 2x 120 fans with the 5600X and have yet to see over 74C...I just did a small aida 64 stress test with gpu load for 5 mins and 72C was the max.


----------



## jormungand (Mar 14, 2021)

jjnissanpatfan said:


> I have Cooler Master - Hyper 212 with 2x 120 fans with the 5600X and have yet to see over 74C...I just did a small aida 64 stress test with gpu load for 5 mins and 72C was the max.


ill test the 212 evo i have on my 7700k tomorrow, but i understand the point  @tabascosauz is telling me. Even though im skeptical
You have the same case i have so its something really weird since those 2 cpu coolers are much alike, but do you play Bf or cyberpunk? My card is a big fat brick too

​


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 14, 2021)

jormungand said:


> ill test the 212 evo i have on my 7700k tomorrow, but i understand the point  @tabascosauz is telling me. Even though im skeptical
> You have the same case i have so its something really weird since those 2 cpu coolers are much alike, but do you play Bf or cyberpunk? My card is a big fat brick too
> 
> ​



Have you run anything all-core like Cinebench R23 or video encoding? Single-thread temp spikes are hard to compare with other people's results, because silicon quality variances mean different ST performance. But all-core temps, at stock settings without PBO, should be comparable, as all-core is generally governed consistently by the PB algorithm.

The U12A is as good as the D15 and superior to the D15S, but the density of Ryzen pretty much equalizes all air coolers, so if you really want to lower those temps you're going to have to pull out all the stops. ie. AIO with Kryonaut or liquid metal


----------



## jormungand (Mar 14, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Have you run anything all-core like Cinebench R23 or video encoding? Single-thread temp spikes are hard to compare with other people's results, because silicon quality variances mean different ST performance. But all-core temps, at stock settings without PBO, should be comparable, as all-core is generally governed consistently by the PB algorithm.
> 
> The U12A is as good as the D15 and superior to the D15S, but the density of Ryzen pretty much equalizes all air coolers, so if you really want to lower those temps you're going to have to pull out all the stops. ie. AIO with Kryonaut or liquid metal


for real ive never tried any of those, since i only use my pc for gaming and watching anime, youtube... etc never was interested on trying it, suppose ill do it know
in look for numbers.
update running atm


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 14, 2021)

jormungand said:


> for real ive never tried any of those, since i only use my pc for gaming and watching anime, youtube... etc never was interested on trying it, suppose ill do it know
> in look for numbers.
> update running atm



Might run a little hotter by the end of the 10min default loop in Cinebench.

Didn't you just build the computer? Give the paste a few days to settle in.

Since you come directly from Kaby Lake, for posterity keep in mind the layout of the dies in your CPU when applying paste. The one in the top right (bottom right when installed in the socket) is the one making all the heat:


----------



## jormungand (Mar 14, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Might run a little hotter by the end of the 10min default loop in Cinebench.
> 
> Didn't you just build the computer? Give the paste a few days to settle in.
> 
> ...


Done , never passed the 71c for the 10 mins, and yeah i built the pc this morning. I used the same thermal paste that came with the cooler,uhmmm ill take that note


----------



## jjnissanpatfan (Mar 14, 2021)

jormungand said:


> ill test the 212 evo i have on my 7700k tomorrow, but i understand the point  @tabascosauz is telling me. Even though im skeptical
> You have the same case i have so its something really weird since those 2 cpu coolers are much alike, but do you play Bf or cyberpunk? My card is a big fat brick too
> 
> ​


I played and beat the newest Black Ops..and play Warzone every now and then.  My power supply fan faces the bottom and I have 2 fans on the CPU heatsink. And for 1 card that thing is beast is there something under it?


----------



## jormungand (Mar 14, 2021)

jjnissanpatfan said:


> I played and beat the newest Black Ops..and play Warzone every now and then.  My power supply fan faces the bottom and I have 2 fans on the CPU heatsink. And for 1 card that thing is beast is there something under it?


yeah the bracket to help the sagging. i dont have a push/pull but the difference shouldnt be that big in temps from 1 to 2 fans on those coolers


----------



## jjnissanpatfan (Mar 14, 2021)

Might help with reapply of paste. Also something I noticed was I had a beefy screwdriver and was surprised at how many turns it took to get the the cpu cooler firmly in there and the process overall. If I had a smaller screwdriver I might of not got the cooler tightened all the way. Before you spend money try the paste and extra fan...and making sure it all tight.


----------



## thesmokingman (Mar 14, 2021)

Have any of you guys gone to the latest AGESA bios yet? Asus released theirs yesterday iirc and MSI before that.


----------



## biffzinker (Mar 14, 2021)

thesmokingman said:


> Have any of you guys gone to the latest AGESA bios yet?


I flashed the BIOS for my B450 Tomahawk a couple days ago. AGESA V1.2 - latest bios available for download. 

Memory Overclocking seems improved for me besides loosening the primary timings.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 14, 2021)

thesmokingman said:


> Have any of you guys gone to the latest AGESA bios yet? Asus released theirs yesterday iirc and MSI before that.


its finally here? installing now then


----------



## thesmokingman (Mar 14, 2021)

Yea, I just downloaded the bios for my strix-e. I also checked and damn, the Germans already have the modded version out, down'd that one too.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Mar 14, 2021)

Mussels said:


> its finally here? installing now then



Is that the AGESA 1.2.0.2 or whatever it is? I don't see one yet for my Asus B550-F board. I hear it substantially increases the L3 cache performance.


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 14, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Is that the AGESA 1.2.0.2 or whatever it is? I don't see one yet for my Asus B550-F board. I hear it substantially increases the L3 cache performance.


I don't think 1202 will be out before April, the one with the USB fix. 1201 is the one with the aida L3 fix, and that one seems to be out only on beta BIOS. Rest of the boards are still on 1200. Neither of my B550s have 1201 yet.

I don't care about either of the fixes, but I heard somewhere 1201 reduces short temp spikes on Tctl/Tdie and TCCD. That could be useful.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 14, 2021)

1.2.0.1 - the .2 comes later with the USB fix

This one has the L3 cache fix which might affect more than just aida so i wanted it
Also checked and GPU-Z doesnt show ReBar working for me just yet, cmon nvidya i wants it


----------



## biffzinker (Mar 14, 2021)

Mussels said:


> me just yet, cmon nvidya i wants it


I think your card needs a BIOS update before it’s functional. Only the 3060 has the feature enabled in the BIOS. I may be wrong about that though.


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 14, 2021)

Mussels said:


> 1.2.0.1 - the .2 comes later with the USB fix
> 
> This one has the L3 cache fix which might affect more than just aida so i wanted it
> Also checked and GPU-Z doesnt show ReBar working for me just yet, cmon nvidya i wants it



Something tells me it's just so the numbers look better in AIDA. It's ridiculously synthetic so I'd imagine it's not hard to "tweak" by preventing the cores from sleeping or something, since we already know that high all-core OC gets better L3 in AIDA.

I remember a post a few dozen pages back from @Alyjen



> You can ignore this Aida L3 cache reading, it's wrong.
> If you enable F-max enhancer in BIOS it'll go back to what it's supposed to be BUT your boost clocks & performance results will dive
> If you do all core OC vs PBO it'll also be higher (usually)
> 
> I think it's related to how Aida boost cores during these tests or sth, for some motherboards it varies between BIOS versions, for others it doesn't. Like I said you can ignore this, it's not proving anything.


----------



## jormungand (Mar 14, 2021)

Update:
212 tested with what  i got left of thermal grizzly 75-79c,gonna return the Vetroo and try my luck with the Noctua.


----------



## jjnissanpatfan (Mar 14, 2021)

Well at least you tried! Let us know how it works with the Noctua.


----------



## jormungand (Mar 14, 2021)

windows updated yesterday before going to bed , todays morning i realized i got no audio , i used  the usb signal receptor on both usb ports front of the case and motherboards back.
no luck, reinstalled the drivers and still nothing
uninstalling corsair icue to see if it helps


----------



## Mussels (Mar 14, 2021)

jormungand said:


> windows updated yesterday before going to bed , todays morning i realized i got no audio , i used  the usb signal receptor on both usb ports front of the case and motherboards back.
> no luck, reinstalled the drivers and still nothing
> uninstalling corsair icue to see if it helps



oh corsair? when that happens you need to manually update the driver for the dongle in device manager
welcome to iCue, its a buggy mess - try that BS when you have half a dozen corsair items and you never know which ones will vanish or give the red triangle of doom


----------



## Alyjen (Mar 15, 2021)

Mussels said:


> oh corsair? when that happens you need to manually update the driver for the dongle in device manager
> welcome to iCue, its a buggy mess - try that BS when you have half a dozen corsair items and you never know which ones will vanish or give the red triangle of doom


oh yes, my good old RM850i, whenever I start iCUE (or even older Corsair Link) app I get instant loop of USB disconnected/connected sounds. Funny is that it can stay connected to USB for months without any issues & same data can be pulled by HWiNFO, but apparently Corsair soft really hates Corsair hardware 
It's one of the reasons I'll always buy Logitech mouses & keyboards and never ever gonna try Corsair.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 15, 2021)

I disabled icue starting with windows - every time i manually start it, i get the ding/dong and my USB devices refresh (which causes a system stutter and my OTHER brands RGB lighting freezes for a moment)
Corsair released a new update today with no changelog, so you can see if updating helps


----------



## Alyjen (Mar 17, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I disabled icue starting with windows - every time i manually start it, i get the ding/dong and my USB devices refresh (which causes a system stutter and my OTHER brands RGB lighting freezes for a moment)
> Corsair released a new update today with no changelog, so you can see if updating helps


sounds exactly like my issue, and since I only have Corsair PSU with power and voltage monitoring I'm using HWiNFO to get the same data 
on Corsair forums I read that using internal USB HUB to connect their devices helps, if you connect them directly to mobo you get issues


----------



## Mussels (Mar 17, 2021)

Alyjen said:


> sounds exactly like my issue, and since I only have Corsair PSU with power and voltage monitoring I'm using HWiNFO to get the same data
> on Corsair forums I read that using internal USB HUB to connect their devices helps, if you connect them directly to mobo you get issues


that varies between boards, some can send out enough power, others have connection issues to the hubs. its great!


----------



## thesmokingman (Mar 18, 2021)

AMD's Next-Gen Van Gogh APU Shows '256-Bit DDR5' Memory Support
					

AMD's upcoming Van Gogh APU tested in the lab.




					www.tomshardware.com
				




AMD showin' off some DDR5 on an APU no less.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 18, 2021)

256 bit with an APU could take off fast, worth slapping some real GPU horsepower behind that


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Mar 19, 2021)

I got another couple of WHEA errors and it turns out that they are reported by the svchost.exe local service. Unfortunately that information isn't much help because many Windows services use svchost.

These WHEA errors do happen like clockwork though. They always happen about once a week, there's always two posted within a few hours of each other and they always seem to be reported by a local service.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 22, 2021)

This is a proud moment for me lol 

I have been trying to get past the extreme setting for days.. turns out the one voltage setting I didn't play with, I should have played with 

I noticed when I was playing with 4 sticks and I bumped the wrong voltage by accident, but I went from being able to run 4x8 @ 1833 to running 1866.. not a huge gain but I ripped out one set to clock the remaining set.. started over and it worked. *pats back*

I should note I have been doing all of my overclocking in the bios 

My eyes are burning so I guess its bed time.


----------



## thesmokingman (Mar 22, 2021)

HWINFO has a WHEA logger. I set hwinfo to show the whea errors on the taskbar. There was a period with all the bios' that that error display got a workout but have not had an error in a long while.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 22, 2021)

freeagent said:


> This is a proud moment for me lol
> 
> I have been trying to get past the extreme setting for days.. turns out the one voltage setting I didn't play with, I should have played with
> 
> ...


i love the part where you dont tell us what the magic voltage was

also every single part name is cut off in the image and your system specs are blank

fucken good mystery, i need the scooby gang to solve this one


----------



## freeagent (Mar 22, 2021)

Nice.. well forget I said anything then.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 22, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Nice.. well forget I said anything then.


please dont be offended, i genuinely found it funny as i kept hunting for info and found nothing


----------



## freeagent (Mar 22, 2021)

Mussels said:


> please dont be offended, i genuinely found it funny as i kept hunting for info and found nothing


I was a little lol. I thought everyone knew what all that stuff was.. glad it’s not just me lol. I will fix it up tomorrow because it’s cool in here and I don’t want to streak to my desk


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## PooPipeBoy (Mar 22, 2021)

I checked both of the Ryzen 3 3100 office systems I built for other family members and only one of them had one WHEA-Logger error that was recorded months ago. Both are running Gigabyte B550M-S2H boards and the are running the same bios as the day I installed them. There doesn't seem to be any WHEA issues with those Zen 2 machines, so that's good.

It will take a while to verify they are gone on my 5600X system, but I'm pretty sure they'll disappear now that I've disabled the Diagnostic Policy Service (DPS) Windows service that was posting all of my WHEA errors.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 22, 2021)

Mussels said:


> i love the part where you dont tell us what the magic voltage was
> 
> also every single part name is cut off in the image and your system specs are blank
> 
> fucken good mystery, i need the scooby gang to solve this one


It was VTTDDR I think. If you are referring to the part names in OCCT, I disabled monitoring since I had hwinfo going since everything is available there.

No errors unless I turn volts down.


----------



## brandon7171 (Mar 24, 2021)

Anyone having any luck with new bios up ROG CROSSHAIR VIII FORMULA BIOS 3302. Good thing they look good. But I don’t know if I want to try it yet.


----------



## INSTG8R (Mar 24, 2021)

brandon7171 said:


> Anyone having any luck with new bios up ROG CROSSHAIR VIII FORMULA BIOS 3302. Good thing they look good. But I don’t know if I want to try it yet.


What AGESA aversion is it? I”ll assume it’s probably 1.2.0.01. The USB fix 1.2.0.2 should pop up very soon. The current AGESA seems pretty trouble free


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 24, 2021)

freeagent said:


> It was VTTDDR I think. If you are referring to the part names in OCCT, I disabled monitoring since I had hwinfo going since everything is available there.
> 
> No errors unless I turn volts down.



That's weird. Reducing VTTDDR usually only comes into play above 4400 or so and/or at more extreme voltages, where the usual BIOS auto-rule of VDIMM÷2 won't POST. I can't push my crappy A0 Viper Steels to 4600 with auto VTTDDR. 

You sure it wasn't VDDP? Unless your BIOS is doing something wrong out of the box at 4000.


----------



## brandon7171 (Mar 24, 2021)

AGESA V2 PI 1.2.0.1


----------



## INSTG8R (Mar 24, 2021)

brandon7171 said:


> AGESA V2 PI 1.2.0.1


It’s got a few bits, corrects L3 performance,, some Curve Optimzer improvements are the highlights


----------



## brandon7171 (Mar 24, 2021)

INSTG8R said:


> It’s got a few bits, corrects L3 performance,, some Curve Optimzer improvements are the highlights


Yep, i just noticed they now have a beta out now, and thats crazy. They have a big note saying something about warranty..


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 24, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I'm thinking it's the single-core frequency (high enough clocks alone can account for higher temps too, irregardless of Vcore or power) , in combination with extra heat rising from the GPU, that causes the momentary spikes in temperature. It certainly isn't helped by the thermal density.


So, after extensive testing with all core clocking and PBO this kind of situation has been the strongest argument for all core overclocking. I can set it at 4.5ghz and undervolt down to 1.16v. This gives me consistently cool temps under load with my EK AIO. No ridiculous momentary fluctuations and there is nothing I'm doing that takes advantage of short bursts of a couple hundred mhz higher, especially at the expense of heating up other components in the case.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 24, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> That's weird. Reducing VTTDDR usually only comes into play above 4400 or so and/or at more extreme voltages, where the usual BIOS auto-rule of VDIMM÷2 won't POST. I can't push my crappy A0 Viper Steels to 4600 with auto VTTDDR.
> 
> You sure it wasn't VDDP? Unless your BIOS is doing something wrong out of the box at 4000.


It could have been VDDP.. dam noobs. I'll get it together one day!

To run 4 sticks at 3733 I did have to bump VTTDDR two spots. Not sure why. I am using a beta bios right now, and there are a bunch of boxes missing from hwinfo now.


----------



## INSTG8R (Mar 24, 2021)

brandon7171 said:


> Yep, i just noticed they now have a beta out now, and thats crazy. They have a big note saying something about warranty..


Well just standard beta boilerplate but there will be at least 1 to 3 more on the upcoming AGESA 1.2.0.2 that should correct the USB issues, a few refinement BOOS and then a 1.2.o.2 final bearing any issue popping up. Then a 1.2.0.2 final. I m an the last current final was1.1.0.0  while stable is bit was basically he first AGESA with full Zen 3 support


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 24, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> So, after extensive test with all core clocking and PBO this kind of situation has been the strongest argument for all core overclocking. I can set it at 4.5ghz and undervolt down to 1.16v. This gives me consistently cool temps under load with my EK AIO. No ridiculous momentary fluctuations and there is nothing I'm doing that takes advantage of short bursts of a couple hundred mhz higher, especially at the expense of heating up other components in the case.



Unfortunately I don't think I can handle the heat output of 12 cores at 4.5. Not that I could do sub 1.2V for 4.5 either, I think.  Normal PBO did 167W in CPU-Z of all things and I was already up to 80C on this C14S

The single thread temp spikes seem to be a 5000 thing. It's still only MW2019 that gets into the 80-85c range on CCD1 while Tctl is actually 80 max (opposite of 3000 behaviour). But when I take a look at log data over time, CCD1 is mostly hanging out in the 70-77C range, only have a momentary spike every little while.

I can't use Curve Optimizer either, any changes I make just absolutely torpedo single-core performance and I have to juggle the two PBO menus because the one that Curve Optimizer is found in only has dud settings


----------



## thesmokingman (Mar 24, 2021)

I have a spare 3900xt and so as it turns out I stuck it into my daughters rig lol. One of these day's I'll downgrade the tuf wifi board's bios so I can stick a 1600x or 1600af into it but till then... 

And then I had to disable a CCD cuz she still plays some ancient games... the irony.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 25, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> So, after extensive testing with all core clocking and PBO this kind of situation has been the strongest argument for all core overclocking. I can set it at 4.5ghz and undervolt down to 1.16v. This gives me consistently cool temps under load with my EK AIO. No ridiculous momentary fluctuations and there is nothing I'm doing that takes advantage of short bursts of a couple hundred mhz higher, especially at the expense of heating up other components in the case.


that is the joy of ryzen, user choice!


As a 165Hz gamer, i'll take that extra 500Mhz of boost becase 10% is 10%


----------



## KainXS (Mar 27, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I have the same mobo as you, I would get crashed if I enabled PBO. disable PBO in BIOS and leave cpu at stock. see if it crashed after that.  also is the ram QVL for that mobo? double check. and if it is then turn on xmp, if its not then use the "memory try it" feature. i use the memory try it feature and its worked out great for me.  if you get crashes still after that, lower the memory try it feature a little bit.


found out what was causing them, I cheaped out and bought this cheap fan hub on amazon and it worked at first but it failed and would only have the fans ramp up to about 300rpm, chaos ensued. Replaced with a deepcool hub and have not had an issue in 2 weeks now even with PBO.







						Amazon.com: Electop PC Chassis Fan Hub CPU Cooling HUB 10 Port 12V 4 Pin Fan PWM Hub Molex Controller : Electronics
					

Buy Electop PC Chassis Fan Hub CPU Cooling HUB 10 Port 12V 4 Pin Fan PWM Hub Molex Controller: Case Fans - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 27, 2021)

KainXS said:


> found out what was causing them, I cheaped out and bought this cheap fan hub on amazon and it worked at first but it failed and would only have the fans ramp up to about 300rpm, chaos ensued. Replaced with a deepcool hub and have not had an issue in 2 weeks now even with PBO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



that's not my issue, I don't use a fan hub and my temps never break 60 celsius even under prime95. and stock works just fine rock solid. i ended up doing a low voltage all core of 4.5 1.250v no downclocking and its rock solid and runs cold.   an extra 200 mhz isn't worth the heat imo


----------



## grunt_408 (Mar 27, 2021)

Anyone tell me the usual symptoms of memory controller dying on a Ryzen 7 1700. I had an issue with mine where it suddenly would not post with all 4 ram slots populated. After some mucking around I managed to find that no matter which pair of sticks I used it will now post with 2 ram slots just not 4.... does not matter which slots. I still every now and then get a memory management bsod running the 2 slots.. Now I am aware it could be the board but a hunch tells me its the cpu. Just keen to hear if anyone else has run into this with the 1700.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 27, 2021)

grunt_408 said:


> Anyone tell me the usual symptoms of memory controller dying on a Ryzen 7 1700. I had an issue with mine where it suddenly would not post with all 4 ram slots populated. After some mucking around I managed to find that no matter which pair of sticks I used it will now post with 2 ram slots just not 4.... does not matter which slots. I still every now and then get a memory management bsod running the 2 slots.. Now I am aware it could be the board but a hunch tells me its the cpu. Just keen to hear if anyone else has run into this with the 1700.



check all the pins and blow dust out of slots and socket? sounds like an IMC issue for sure

oh wait i knew this problem sounded familiar, i already told you this


----------



## thesmokingman (Mar 27, 2021)

That stuff doesn't just fail or degrade all on its own...


----------



## grunt_408 (Mar 28, 2021)

Mussels said:


> check all the pins and blow dust out of slots and socket? sounds like an IMC issue for sure
> 
> oh wait i knew this problem sounded familiar, i already told you this


Yes indeed you did.. Just was curious to see if anyone else has had it happen. I have never had the cpu out of the socket so there would be no dust or bent pins etc.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 28, 2021)

grunt_408 said:


> Yes indeed you did.. Just was curious to see if anyone else has had it happen. I have never had the cpu out of the socket so there would be no dust or bent pins etc.


what you didnt say here is that you moved house, thats plenty of ways for things to get shaken loose or dust shaken in


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Mar 28, 2021)

Seven days without a single WHEA error. I think they're finally gone 






So it wasn't overclocking instability after all. In fact for the last week I've been running the Curve Optimizer at -30 on five cores.

All I did was disable the Diagnostics Policy Service in Windows that was reporting the errors and now it's all good.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 28, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Seven days without a single WHEA error. I think they're finally gone
> 
> View attachment 194182
> 
> ...


wait... what you did was disable the ability for it TO report the errors

you shot the mailman and you're excited he never delivered the mail


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Mar 28, 2021)

Mussels said:


> wait... what you did was disable the ability for it TO report the errors
> 
> you shot the mailman and you're excited he never delivered the mail


----------



## Muaadib (Mar 29, 2021)

I Bought a B550 motherboard (ASRock B550M-ITX/AC) for a potential SFF NR200 build and was tearing my hair out as it wasn't posting. Tried different GPU,RAM,CPU,PSU and still couldn't post. Wrote it off as a DOA motherboard and was about to start an RMA to Amazon.de while dreading the shipping costs I would need to pay to ship from Africa. For some reason I was browsing ASRock's website and noted the motherboard only supports Ryzen 3000/5000 CPUs . Why they would not support previous gens (at least Zen+) is beyond me.

Persuaded a friend to swap his 3600 for my 2600 for a couple of months until I can get my own (fingers crossed for a 5600 non-x) and now I finally have my pc working again.

I also have been stuck runnig 2133Mhz on my RAM instead of 3000Mhz because it predates Ryzen (2015 Hynix m-die iirc) and kept giving me blue screens whenever I enabled XMP. I tried Ryzen DRAM Calc before but even its Safe settings would BSOD as well. I was about to bite the bullet and get some 3600CL16 or 3200CL14 but I said what the heck, lets try to tune the RAM one last time. Got BSODs again using Calc timings so as a last resort I upped the voltage to 1.45v. Lo and behold, I could boot to 3000Mhz Safe settings and pased Memtest 1000%. I even went a step further and passed the Fast preset, netting me a change from [2133 15-15-15-36-50] to [3000 14-15-15-32-52]

This got me excited and I went and used Clocktuner for Ryzen, ended up going from 4.1@1.358v to 4.2@1.25 to 4.35@1.35.

After a long while, I can finally say I feel like I joined the Club.

P.S. Thanks @1usmus for your incredible tools.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 29, 2021)

Muaadib said:


> I Bought a B550 motherboard (ASRock B550M-ITX/AC) for a potential SFF NR200 build and was tearing my hair out as it wasn't posting. Tried different GPU,RAM,CPU,PSU and still couldn't post. Wrote it off as a DOA motherboard and was about to start an RMA to Amazon.de while dreading the shipping costs I would need to pay to ship from Africa. For some reason I was browsing ASRock's website and noted the motherboard only supports Ryzen 3000/5000 CPUs . Why they would not support previous gens (at least Zen+) is beyond me.
> 
> Persuaded a friend to swap his 3600 for my 2600 for a couple of months until I can get my own (fingers crossed for a 5600 non-x) and now I finally have my pc working again.
> 
> ...


Wait, you never checked the CPU support before buying?
B550 was always advertised as zen2 and newer, you need B450 if you want 'universal' support 

Dont bother with fancy timings on hynix, just turn XMP on and raise SoC to 1.1V (then try 1.15 and 1.2V if it fails) - you should be good for a minimum of 3200C16 even on "bad" ram


----------



## Muaadib (Mar 30, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Wait, you never checked the CPU support before buying?
> B550 was always advertised as zen2 and newer, you need B450 if you want 'universal' support
> 
> Dont bother with fancy timings on hynix, just turn XMP on and raise SoC to 1.1V (then try 1.15 and 1.2V if it fails) - you should be good for a minimum of 3200C16 even on "bad" ram


Yep, silly me thought since my b450 supports all cpus then b550 should be the same.

Thanks for the ram tips, will give them a try tomorrow and report back as it's 1am atm.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Mar 30, 2021)

We may have finally found out what is causing these WHEA errors to show up intermittently on a regular basis. It's an incompatibility with Western Digital hard drives.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/whea-logger-fatal-hardware-error.279436/page-2

All these months of testing and researching and worrying about RMA's to just find out that unplugging these f'king hard drives would stop the WHEA errors showing up in the logs. Damn.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 30, 2021)

wait really? thats front page news worthy and explains why some people are swamped and others never get it


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## PooPipeBoy (Mar 30, 2021)

Mussels said:


> wait really? thats front page news worthy and explains why some people are swamped and others never get it



Yeah for real! I wonder how many unnecessary RMAs this has caused. It would explain why I've been getting two errors posted at the same time, because I've got two WD drives.


----------



## Final_Fighter (Mar 30, 2021)

got myself a ryzen 5 5600x on a modded b350 board. everything is working good so far. pretty nice jump from a ryzen 5 2600.


----------



## Muaadib (Mar 30, 2021)

@Mussels tried SoC at 1.1,1.15, and 1.2v. All had the PC lockup right at POST screen. Went back to 1.45v DRAM and it worked flawlessly.

I think I will just have to live with this, I even get crashes if I bump down the RAM 0.1v less.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 30, 2021)

Muaadib said:


> @Mussels tried SoC at 1.1,1.15, and 1.2v. All had the PC lockup right at POST screen. Went back to 1.45v DRAM and it worked flawlessly.
> 
> I think I will just have to live with this, I even get crashes if I bump down the RAM 0.1v less.


'back to' 1.45v dram? what did you drop the DRAM to?


----------



## Final_Fighter (Mar 30, 2021)

playing around with pbo settings. have my ppt 88w, tdc 60a, edc 90a, +200mhz. all core stays above 4.65ghz with cinebench. single core score really shines. not hitting over 76c in cinebnech. voltages stay under 1.4v


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Mar 31, 2021)

Final_Fighter said:


> playing around with pbo settings. have my ppt 88w, tdc 60a, edc 90a, +200mhz. all core stays above 4.65ghz with cinebench. single core score really shines. not hitting over 76c in cinebnech. voltages stay under 1.4v
> 
> View attachment 194608



It's running very well for a 5600X, I must say. Mine scores lower although I only use the Curve Optimizer and have PBO disabled because I prefer low power consumption.


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 31, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> It's running very well for a 5600X, I must say. Mine scores lower although I only use the Curve Optimizer and have PBO disabled because I prefer low power consumption.
> 
> View attachment 194618



Hold up, don't you have to enable PBO advanced to even show the Curve Optimizer on Asus?


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Mar 31, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Hold up, don't you have to enable PBO advanced to even show the Curve Optimizer on Asus?



Good point actually, it might be is on Advanced.

Edit: In the earlier days I had it running on 4.6GHz all cores with PBO but I've forgotten how I did it. Not running it at those speeds now though.


----------



## Final_Fighter (Mar 31, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> It's running very well for a 5600X, I must say. Mine scores lower although I only use the Curve Optimizer and have PBO disabled because I prefer low power consumption.
> 
> View attachment 194618


My bios does not seem to have the curve optimizer setting. Might also be because I'm on a modded b350.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Mar 31, 2021)

Final_Fighter said:


> My bios does not seem to have the curve optimizer setting. Might also be because I'm on a modded b350.



Probably. The curve optimizer doesn't make much of a difference from stock, maybe an extra couple hundred MHz on multi, but it drops the core voltages down a bit as well.


----------



## thesmokingman (Mar 31, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Probably. The curve optimizer doesn't make much of a difference from stock, maybe an extra couple hundred MHz on multi, but it drops the core voltages down a bit as well.


One actually uses the curve optimizer if you want to force it to waste more power.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 31, 2021)

I played with it for the first time today.. it was in a different menu.. I didn't test any cores individually or anything, just typed in - 30 for all of them, and was doing 4850 with only 1.25 lol.. probably not stable.. that is what I need for a locked 4600. I chickened out.


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## Muaadib (Mar 31, 2021)

Mussels said:


> 'back to' 1.45v dram? what did you drop the DRAM to?


Apologies. Looking back, I think i misunderstood your point. I assumed you were saying 1.45v on the ram wasn't needed, and instead just increasing SoC voltage to 1.2v. I will see if I can reach 3200C16 when i get back home.

P.S. My XMP is 3000C16 so I'm already at tighter timings than it.


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 31, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Probably. The curve optimizer doesn't make much of a difference from stock, maybe an extra couple hundred MHz on multi, but it drops the core voltages down a bit as well.



Because of the inherently spiky single thread temps on Ryzen 5000 I really wanted to use Curve Optimizer. I'm still getting spikes up to 85C in COD and COD only (although 90% of the time CCD1 is still just 70-77C), it's not hitting 90 but the weather is still quite cool. Otherwise gaming temps are in the 60s and 70s, and MT workloads always around 70-72.

Took a look at CO. Realized that PBO needs to be on. Realized that most of the 2nd PBO menu under AMD OC is utterly broken despite it being a stable 1200 BIOS. Realized that PBO straight up ignores any power limits I or the motherboard set, while consistently nuking ST perf between 10-15% even without touching CO. Then gave up and decided it wasn't worth my time when nothing's actually wrong with how it is right now.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 31, 2021)

Muaadib said:


> Apologies. Looking back, I think i misunderstood your point. I assumed you were saying 1.45v on the ram wasn't needed, and instead just increasing SoC voltage to 1.2v. I will see if I can reach 3200C16 when i get back home.
> 
> P.S. My XMP is 3000C16 so I'm already at tighter timings than it.


nooo, you're meant to raise *both*

1.4v DRAM with 1.1V SoC is a universal good idea for overclocking on ryzen - the only thing that varies is how much SoC voltage, because it can vary a little between the generations


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Mar 31, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Because of the inherently spiky single thread temps on Ryzen 5000 I really wanted to use Curve Optimizer. I'm still getting spikes up to 85C in COD and COD only (although 90% of the time CCD1 is still just 70-77C), it's not hitting 90 but the weather is still quite cool. Otherwise gaming temps are in the 60s and 70s, and MT workloads always around 70-72.
> 
> Took a look at CO. Realized that PBO needs to be on. Realized that most of the 2nd PBO menu under AMD OC is utterly broken despite it being a stable 1200 BIOS. Realized that PBO straight up ignores any power limits I or the motherboard set, while consistently nuking ST perf between 10-15% even without touching CO. Then gave up and decided it wasn't worth my time when nothing's actually wrong with how it is right now.



Have you tried using Eco Mode? Damn I can't remember, but there's a manual setting in there that you can edit to change the total CPU power consumption. Mine had a default value of 76 which limited my 5600X to a maximum power consumption of 76 watts. I'm pretty sure it works alongside PBO.


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## Muaadib (Mar 31, 2021)

Mussels said:


> nooo, you're meant to raise *both*
> 
> 1.4v DRAM with 1.1V SoC is a universal good idea for overclocking on ryzen


Thanks for the tip, I have some free time starting tonight so I will start with those settings and see where it goes. Will report back afterwards.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 31, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Have you tried using Eco Mode? Damn I can't remember, but there's a manual setting in there that you can edit to change the total CPU power consumption. Mine had a default value of 76 which limited my 5600X to a maximum power consumption of 76 watts. I'm pretty sure it works alongside PBO.


you gotta turn PBO on, reboot, then eco mode shows up which basically has some preset PBO numbers


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## tabascosauz (Mar 31, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Have you tried using Eco Mode? Damn I can't remember, but there's a manual setting in there that you can edit to change the total CPU power consumption. Mine had a default value of 76 which limited my 5600X to a maximum power consumption of 76 watts. I'm pretty sure it works alongside PBO.



Won't help me unfortunately, it just applies the 65W power limits. PPT isn't a problem, I can handle any MT workload up to the stock 142W limit, barely hits 70C. It's lightly threaded COD that's the problem because it boosts only the 2 best cores continuously at 4.4-4.8GHz. PPT only falls around 95-ish watts in game, and I'm not looking to cripple multithread performance elsewhere by limiting 12 cores to 90W.

And the board doesn't respect any other power limit I set because the PBO menu is broken.

Notwithstanding the obvious issue of PBO power limits being unenforceable, when I turn PBO on something's wrong with single thread perf. CPU-Z will run the MT portion normally (albeit boosts up to 167W and I can't even change that), but the ST bench is broken. The score just fluctuates wildly like a roller coaster until the test ends and it just settles on whatever fkin random number it's on at that second. When I turn PBO off, it goes back to normal.


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## Muaadib (Apr 7, 2021)

So I tried various SoC/DRAM voltage configurations, all failed to post or BS'd. Guess I will just have to live with 3000@1.1/1.45v

Cant say I'm disappointed though. Quite happy actually since it saved me a potential ram upgrade.


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## Gmr_Chick (Apr 7, 2021)

Hey peeps, have a question for you all. I've already looked at the HWInfo forum about Power Reporting Deviation but...I didn't really understand it. All I know is it sounds like anything 90% and above is considered "normal" and anything under that is considered under-reporting. Since getting this board, I've never actually seen the PR stat "in the green" so to speak. It's ALWAYS been in the red and though I've always wondered why (it's the only reading that's red so of course it stands out) I wasn't sure what it was exactly. 

Anyway, here's a screencap I took during a session of Battlefront II. The lowest "minimum" for Power Reporting I've seen thus far (in the past few days) is a whopping 55.4% as well. 






So, is my board playing unwelcome tricks on me? How do I stop it? Should I be overly concerned (ie think about a different board)?


----------



## freeagent (Apr 7, 2021)

Put a hard load on it and it should drop to 0.. I wouldn’t worry about it. You don’t even see that anymore with zen3 I kind of miss it


----------



## tabascosauz (Apr 7, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Hey peeps, have a question for you all. I've already looked at the HWInfo forum about Power Reporting Deviation but...I didn't really understand it. All I know is it sounds like anything 90% and above is considered "normal" and anything under that is considered under-reporting. Since getting this board, I've never actually seen the PR stat "in the green" so to speak. It's ALWAYS been in the red and though I've always wondered why (it's the only reading that's red so of course it stands out) I wasn't sure what it was exactly.
> 
> Anyway, here's a screencap I took during a session of Battlefront II. The lowest "minimum" for Power Reporting I've seen thus far (in the past few days) is a whopping 55.4% as well.
> 
> ...



The only number that matters is what you see during an all-core benchmark. Run Cinebench and see what you get during it.

70% at idle is not a good sign though as most boards idle higher and drop during benchmarks. The lower the number, the more the board is underreporting in an effort to surreptitiously boost performance. Because the board underreports current draw, the chip may be tricked into pulling more current than it thinks it is, which may or may not boost performance.

My B450 I Aorus Pro Wifi was one of the worst boards I've ever seen, with the deviation falling to 74% under load. ST and MT scores on my 3700X certainly were higher than on any other board. If your Cinebench scores seem consistently higher than others' 3600s at stock, the underreporting could be the culprit.

Longevity, I dunno. In theory, Precision Boost 2 is still in charge, so there should be no damage suffered to the chip. However, PB2 still relies on the board to tell it how much current it is pulling and the board pretty much lies to the CPU - in your case, by quite a bit. Ryzen is more sensitive to current than voltage and my 3700X did pretty much go downhill with time, although obviously it's unproven and a bit of a stretch to link it to that first board I had.

Normally for a 70-90% board I wouldn't consider changing the board just because of the deviation. Especially not for a 65w 3600.



freeagent said:


> Put a hard load on it and it should drop to 0.. I wouldn’t worry about it. You don’t even see that anymore with zen3 I kind of miss it



I certainly hope it doesn't drop to 0 lol, would the board even be reporting ANY SMU current draw at that point?

I've always had the deviation for any of my chips, Matisse, Renoir or Vermeer. Sounds like your HWInfo is due a Reset User Preferences, sometimes a newer version fucks things up and it needs it.

If you are upgrading from HWinfo V7.00 to V7.02 you should reset. Same if you are upgrading from any AGESA 1200 BIOS to 1201. The new AGESA does a lot of the sensors differently so HWInfo may be confused and drop or break half of them.


----------



## freeagent (Apr 7, 2021)

Its been awhile since I have seen CPU PPT being reported like it used to for Matisse. I took a bios update and I havent seen it since. I do have reporting again in the new HWinfo, but its just current min max. It used to be all over the place for me lol 200% down 0 and back up. When I enabled LLC it calmed the eff down.


----------



## Tomgang (Apr 7, 2021)

Switching from Intel to amd ryzen. I got a Ryzen 5 5600X a few days ago and have a Ryzen 9 5950X in order, but when that is coming. I have no idea of.

CPU can be seen here. It's not up and running yet as I am waiting for other parts to arrive. 

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...h-related-purchase-thread.225885/post-4491280

5600X will be put in a ASUS ROG STRIX B550-I GAMING mini-itx board

5950X in a ASUS ROG CROSSHAIR VIII DARK HERO board. If it comes that is... It's all most just as difficult to get as proper GPU these days.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 8, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Hey peeps, have a question for you all. I've already looked at the HWInfo forum about Power Reporting Deviation but...I didn't really understand it. All I know is it sounds like anything 90% and above is considered "normal" and anything under that is considered under-reporting. Since getting this board, I've never actually seen the PR stat "in the green" so to speak. It's ALWAYS been in the red and though I've always wondered why (it's the only reading that's red so of course it stands out) I wasn't sure what it was exactly.
> 
> Anyway, here's a screencap I took during a session of Battlefront II. The lowest "minimum" for Power Reporting I've seen thus far (in the past few days) is a whopping 55.4% as well.
> 
> ...


only relevant during all core load, so start up cinebench and read the current values then
Honestly who cares if it boosts a little higher or hotter, you can tweak PBO values since you're aware of it


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 8, 2021)

Values I got during a 10 minute run of Cinebench multi-core were 83.6 towards the end of the test, 78.3 for average and 57.2 for a minimum


----------



## tabascosauz (Apr 8, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Values I got during a 10 minute run of Cinebench multi-core were 83.6 towards the end of the test, 78.3 for average and 57.2 for a minimum



Even when CB is looping there is still slight downtime between tests I think, might be where the 57% came from. Otherwise, 78-83% during the actual render test isn't terrible, wouldn't worry about that.

AMD says underreporting however significant still can't override internal voltage and current limits. I usually don't have the utmost confidence in AMD's claims as to longevity due to my 3700X, but this statement seems reasonable enough. Especially on a B550 board (some earlier B450 boards basically never respected PPT limits even with PBO off) and a 3600.


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 8, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Even when CB is looping there is still slight downtime between tests I think, might be where the 57% came from. Otherwise, 78-83% during the actual render test isn't terrible, wouldn't worry about that.
> 
> AMD says underreporting however significant still can't override internal voltage and current limits. I usually don't have the utmost confidence in AMD's claims as to longevity due to my 3700X, but this statement seems reasonable enough. Especially on a B550 board (some earlier B450 boards basically never respected PPT limits even with PBO off) and a 3600.



So I shouldn't worry too much about it? (I'm a bit of a worry-wort, worst-case scenario type -- partially because of my OCD -- so I tend to mentally exhaust myself thinking about all the shit that could go wrong with my rig)


----------



## tabascosauz (Apr 8, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> So I shouldn't worry too much about it? (I'm a bit of a worry-wort, worst-case scenario type -- partially because of my OCD -- so I tend to mentally exhaust myself thinking about all the shit that could go wrong with my rig)



I know how you feel. I went down that hole with Ford and GM's engines and trannys and as a result my next ride is probably a Model 3  

If you tend to overthink things, just frame everything Ryzen within the philosophy of "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

No issues? Don't go reaching for that shiny new AGESA. No issues? Don't go wondering what PBO might have in store. No issues? Don't go reaching for that next 66MT/s jump up or the next 5ns tRFC step down. 

I can abuse my HTPC all I want, but on my main where I count on its dependability day in and day out, the philosophy works like a charm.   

In this case, it's working fine, so don't worry about it.


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 8, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I know how you feel. I went down that hole with Ford and GM's engines and trannys and as a result my next ride is probably a Model 3
> 
> If you tend to overthink things, just frame everything Ryzen within the philosophy of "if it ain't broke don't fix it".
> 
> ...



Thanks, Tabby! You've helped put my mind at ease


----------



## freeagent (Apr 8, 2021)

I reinstalled windows, got the newest HWinfo, and put my CPU back @ stock settings with PBO and I see everything you guys do now 

I think I will just leave it alone now..


----------



## biffzinker (Apr 8, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I think I will just leave it alone now..


Your still OCing the RAM though?


----------



## tabascosauz (Apr 8, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I reinstalled windows, got the newest HWinfo, and put my CPU back @ stock settings with PBO and I see everything you guys do now
> 
> I think I will just leave it alone now..



I think i might have misled you - I meant hit the Reset button in HWInfo settings, not Windows   

Still it's good to start fresh esp after all the OCing youve been doing


----------



## PaulieG (Apr 8, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I think i might have misled you - I meant hit the Reset button in HWInfo settings, not Windows
> 
> Still it's good to start fresh esp after all the OCing youve been doing


Way to try to make him feel better after a goof.


----------



## freeagent (Apr 8, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> Your still OCing the RAM though?


Yes, only because it reminds me its not a Dell 


tabascosauz said:


> I think i might have misled you - I meant hit the Reset button in HWInfo settings, not Windows
> 
> Still it's good to start fresh esp after all the OCing youve been doing


Lol I know that now!  I literally just found it.. but yes the OS took a bit of a beating, especially with 4 sticks.. so finicky 


PaulieG said:


> Way to try to make him feel better after a goof.


Lol but so fresh and clean right now 

I had to see what she could do, I put in a real effort to get four sticks to 2K, I just couldn't do it. I barely was able to hold 1933 once. I can do 1900 but only with GDM off @ 2T. Its a lot of effort for not a lot of return. Bit of a heart breaker, but it is what it is I suppose.. maybe my kids will get this board..


----------



## thesmokingman (Apr 8, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I reinstalled windows, got the newest HWinfo, and put my CPU back @ stock settings with PBO and I see everything you guys do now
> 
> I think I will just leave it alone now..


Ooh, what happened, what did I miss?

Putting pieces together trying for 2k fclk huh?


----------



## freeagent (Apr 8, 2021)

thesmokingman said:


> Ooh, what happened, what did I miss?
> 
> Putting pieces together trying for 2k fclk huh?


Yeah I was trying for it.. I can run 2K with 2 sticks, but 4 is the challenge 

I did nail down 1900 with 4 sticks, but cant nail down 1933.. not big deal, I am still pretty happy with the system, she's a ripper for sure! Just needs a GPU upgrade and she's done 

Ok.. So I have my Visa in hand. I have a 5800X in my cart. I own a 5600X and a 3600XT.. both are for sale right now..

Should I get the 5800X? I know in the end its my decision.. do you think the extra bump is worth my trouble?

I will probably lose a little on the CPU sales.. and I am ok with it, mostly.

Edit:

Scratch the new CPU..


----------



## Mussels (Apr 10, 2021)

you'd get no gains gaming, unless you did vidya encoding etc on the side - 5600x is a beast


----------



## tabascosauz (Apr 10, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Should I get the 5800X? I know in the end its my decision.. do you think the extra bump is worth my trouble?
> 
> I will probably lose a little on the CPU sales.. and I am ok with it, mostly.
> 
> ...



If you're just going to use that Thermalright cooler I think you'll find the 5800X to be an eye-opening experience at the very least...good choice sticking with what you have.

The way you've been hitting that OC juice, you might be looking in the wrong place for upgrades. Instead of messing with your main PC you really should be getting a 5650G off eBay when they become available and putting it in a B550 ITX board. Together the two will probably add up to the cost of a 5800X alone, and you can still sell the 3600XT. You keep this up and you're going to want more Infinity Fabric than these chiplet CPUs can ever provide 

Probably best to save for a card, though


----------



## freeagent (Apr 10, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> If you're just going to use that Thermalright cooler I think you'll find the 5800X to be an eye-opening experience at the very least...good choice sticking with what you have.
> 
> The way you've been hitting that OC juice, you might be looking in the wrong place for upgrades. Instead of messing with your main PC you really should be getting a 5650G off eBay when they become available and putting it in a B550 ITX board. Together the two will probably add up to the cost of a 5800X alone, and you can still sell the 3600XT. You keep this up and you're going to want more Infinity Fabric than these chiplet CPUs can ever provide
> 
> Probably best to save for a card, though


I appreciate the straight talk. I think you may be right..

That is interesting.. I was looking at an ITX board today. I think I might go that route, after I get a card 

Thanks again!


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 10, 2021)

Quick question peeps. I didn't want to make a separate topic. Anyway, my board *might* finally be acting up, but I can't say for sure if it's on the board side or the software side. My keyboard, mouse, and headset are all HyperX, so I use HyperX NGENUITY to control lighting and other aspects. Couple weeks ago on TeamSpeak, was getting ready to play with a couple clan mates and they couldn't hear me talk, as my mic was apparently not working (it worked just fine up until then). I didn't think anything of it though. Fast forward to now, and when I loaded NGENUITY (which has always been quick to recognize my keyboard and mouse) I got a popup notification via windows saying "Alloy Origins Core Keyboard is Found but it could not be connected!" And I don't get any message whatsoever in regards to my mouse like I used to. I tried repairing the app as well as resetting it, but that only resulted in my lighting profiles being lost and now my lighting is back to retina-searing. 

Also unplugged keyboard and mouse from rear I/O for a bit to see if that helped and it didn't, so...yeah, not sure what else to do now. Only thing I've done in recent times in regards to my rig was update my board's BIOS due to my rig completely shutting off during gaming (which I think was tied to my AIO somehow). 

Any help would be greatly appreciated


----------



## tabascosauz (Apr 10, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I appreciate the straight talk. I think you may be right..
> 
> That is interesting.. I was looking at an ITX board today. I think I might go that route, after I get a card
> 
> Thanks again!



After the HWInfo incident I feel like I should clarify first  only do so if you're _that _interested in memory overclocking. Currently Renoir sits at about 2300MHz 1:1 if lucky and using a dGPU. Cezanne might push that up a little bit, so 1:1 limit is still probably below 2500MHz IF. With B-die you'll only be living in that 1:1 range and working on your timings for daily performance. Even with Rev.B or maybe DJR I still don't think you'll max out the CPU, the ITX boards might struggle with VTTDDR starting from 1.8V VDIMM or so.

I know most people are content with tweaking their main. But if a smaller second PC is what you think you want, then you know what to do  



Gmr_Chick said:


> Quick question peeps. I didn't want to make a separate topic. Anyway, my board *might* finally be acting up, but I can't say for sure if it's on the board side or the software side. My keyboard, mouse, and headset are all HyperX, so I use HyperX NGENUITY to control lighting and other aspects. Couple weeks ago on TeamSpeak, was getting ready to play with a couple clan mates and they couldn't hear me talk, as my mic was apparently not working (it worked just fine up until then). I didn't think anything of it though. Fast forward to now, and when I loaded NGENUITY (which has always been quick to recognize my keyboard and mouse) I got a popup notification via windows saying "Alloy Origins Core Keyboard is Found but it could not be connected!" And I don't get any message whatsoever in regards to my mouse like I used to. I tried repairing the app as well as resetting it, but that only resulted in my lighting profiles being lost and now my lighting is back to retina-searing.
> 
> Also unplugged keyboard and mouse from rear I/O for a bit to see if that helped and it didn't, so...yeah, not sure what else to do now. Only thing I've done in recent times in regards to my rig was update my board's BIOS due to my rig completely shutting off during gaming (which I think was tied to my AIO somehow).
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated



Are you still on the stable AGESA 1200 BIOS? The 1201 Patch A BIOSes come with a USB "fix", there's a beta BIOS out on the B550 PGV.

From what I read the "fix" is backported from 1202 which was supposed to originally solve the USB problems.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 10, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> After the HWInfo incident I feel like I should clarify first  only do so if you're _that _interested in memory overclocking. Currently Renoir sits at about 2300MHz 1:1 if lucky and using a dGPU. Cezanne might push that up a little bit, so 1:1 limit is still probably below 2500MHz IF. With B-die you'll only be living in that 1:1 range and working on your timings for daily performance. Even with Rev.B or maybe DJR I still don't think you'll max out the CPU, the ITX boards might struggle with VTTDDR starting from 1.8V VDIMM or so.
> 
> I know most people are content with tweaking their main. But if a smaller second PC is what you think you want, then you know what to do
> 
> ...


its the public beta test of the fix yeah - from comments i've seen its a big deal on some systems


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 10, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Are you still on the stable AGESA 1200 BIOS? The 1201 Patch A BIOSes come with a USB "fix", there's a beta BIOS out on the B550 PGV.
> 
> From what I read the "fix" is backported from 1202 which was supposed to originally solve the USB problems.



I was yes, but I just now updated to the beta.

Still getting the "cannot be connected!" message in NGENUITY 

Just talked to Amazon customer service about my issues with the board (did I mention one of the 4-pin RGB headers doesn't work?) and the agent made an exception for my case despite being past the return window (he was awesome) and sent me the shipping labels to return the board for a refund. 

Might pick up either the B550-F or B550-A from Asus.


----------



## tabascosauz (Apr 11, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> I was yes, but I just now updated to the beta.
> 
> Still getting the "cannot be connected!" message in NGENUITY
> 
> ...



Weren't you originally looking for a silver board? The B550-A would be a nice choice then with both at $179, they're the same board. Fingers crossed it does the trick.

I was going to comment that the 1201 BIOS messed up my Scarlett Solo by forcing me to reduce the gain knob by more than 50% otherwise I'd brutally destroy my friends' eardrums. The 1201A BIOS didn't change anything but I managed to fix it by switching back to the Focusrite drivers then back to the Windows drivers (Windows drivers occasionally crackle and pop on the output (headphones) side, Focusrite drivers crackle more often on the input (mic) side).

As long as there aren't other issues with the board that necessitate dealing with customer service, I'd take an Asus board for the BIOS fan control alone. Still unmatched in functionality.


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 11, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> *Weren't you originally looking for a silver board? The B550-A would be a nice choice then with both at $179, they're the same board. *Fingers crossed it does the trick.
> 
> I was going to comment that the 1201 BIOS messed up my Scarlett Solo by forcing me to reduce the gain knob by more than 50% otherwise I'd brutally destroy my friends' eardrums. The 1201A BIOS didn't change anything but I managed to fix it by switching back to the Focusrite drivers then back to the Windows drivers (Windows drivers occasionally crackle and pop on the output (headphones) side, Focusrite drivers crackle more often on the input (mic) side).
> 
> As long as there aren't other issues with the board that necessitate dealing with customer service,* I'd take an Asus board for the BIOS fan control alone. Still unmatched in functionality.*



I'm trying to stick with silver, yeah. I was going to add that the F and A are basically the same board, with minute differences (no RGB rog eye on the A for example). What's weird is - at least on Newegg -- the A is $10USD cheaper than the non-wifi F, lol. Both boards have 1 3-pin ARGB header and 2 4-pin RGB headers, but I guess it's not THAT big of a deal since my Phanteks Halo Lux-D shrouds are being controlled via Phanteks DRGB hub. Only lighting on the actual board and CPU cooler is controlled via Polychrome. 

In the short numbers of years I've been into this hobby, I've had more Asus boards than any other. My first ever board was an M5A97-LE R2 and I didn't even know what BIOS were so I was a bit scared of having to go in them to set things up, but the interface coupled with the Easy Mode made things A LOT easier for me. Thus far I've dealt with BIOS from Asus, Gigabyte and now Asrock, and I can say that Asus still has the most user-friendly interface out there. Aura is also still tops in my book as well! 

Once I get the board, you'll have to show me the fan control stuff, Tabby


----------



## freeagent (Apr 11, 2021)

Asus works pretty well for me too. I have only have one ASsrock, Z77 OC Formula and I really like that board. I was going to buy an AM4 board from them.. (still might because I have my XT still) Even better than the upper midrange Asus it replaced.. I'm probably an Asus fanboy though, but only because they have stood the test of time with me, except that one time.. and the time before that but could have been my fault not sure..  Gigabyte is ok, not my first choice but the one I had was good to me, and is still good to my buddy a decade later. MSI kinda scares me a little.. like Chaintech or some other sludge scraper. But people love them so what do I know


----------



## Mussels (Apr 11, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> I'm trying to stick with silver, yeah. I was going to add that the F and A are basically the same board, with minute differences (no RGB rog eye on the A for example). What's weird is - at least on Newegg -- the A is $10USD cheaper than the non-wifi F, lol. Both boards have 1 3-pin ARGB header and 2 4-pin RGB headers, but I guess it's not THAT big of a deal since my Phanteks Halo Lux-D shrouds are being controlled via Phanteks DRGB hub. Only lighting on the actual board and CPU cooler is controlled via Polychrome.
> 
> In the short numbers of years I've been into this hobby, I've had more Asus boards than any other. My first ever board was an M5A97-LE R2 and I didn't even know what BIOS were so I was a bit scared of having to go in them to set things up, but the interface coupled with the Easy Mode made things A LOT easier for me. Thus far I've dealt with BIOS from Asus, Gigabyte and now Asrock, and I can say that Asus still has the most user-friendly interface out there. Aura is also still tops in my book as well!
> 
> Once I get the board, you'll have to show me the fan control stuff, Tabby


whatever ARGB you get, always use an external controller. I've learned to pretend mobo ports dont even exist with how bad the software and hardware is behind them
(Oh yay i saved settings to my board.... aaaand it forgot them)
or the ability like how MSI and asus badly link with corsair and corsair over-rides the other software before breaking and freezing the board lighting -.-


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 11, 2021)

Mussels said:


> whatever ARGB you get, always use an external controller. I've learned to pretend mobo ports dont even exist with how bad the software and hardware is behind them
> (Oh yay i saved settings to my board.... aaaand it forgot them)
> or the *ability like how MSI and asus badly link with corsair and corsair over-rides the other software before breaking and freezing the board lighting -.-*



Or like how MSI's Mystic Light just fucks everything in general lol. Tried using it to change the annoying rainbow puke on my GPU (MSI card) a few weeks back, and the damn thing ended up bricking the lighting on my RAM. Nothing I did would fix it. Had to open up the rig and "reset" the RAM by popping it out and then putting it in again. 

*sigh* I really wish there was a set standard for this shit.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 11, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Or like how MSI's Mystic Light just fucks everything in general lol. Tried using it to change the annoying rainbow puke on my GPU (MSI card) a few weeks back, and the damn thing ended up bricking the lighting on my RAM. Nothing I did would fix it. Had to open up the rig and "reset" the RAM by popping it out and then putting it in again.
> 
> *sigh* I really wish there was a set standard for this shit.


i yell at everyone, but i either use the MSI MAG hardware controller and its remote, or razer ARGB controller and its software
With about a dozen attempts, i've found nothing else good.

Corsair is okay, but you're locked into their ecosystem really hard, since each lighting controller only has 2 ports and then you need a fan hub for every type of hub (or beyond 6 fans) so i ended up needing 3 controllers and 2 fan hubs for a mid sized ATX build and holy shit that adds so much cost and wiring complexity

Moved to generics and i can use splitters and daisy chain things, and suddenly no more hardware junk


----------



## tabascosauz (Apr 11, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> I'm trying to stick with silver, yeah. I was going to add that the F and A are basically the same board, with minute differences (no RGB rog eye on the A for example). What's weird is - at least on Newegg -- the A is $10USD cheaper than the non-wifi F, lol. Both boards have 1 3-pin ARGB header and 2 4-pin RGB headers, but I guess it's not THAT big of a deal since my Phanteks Halo Lux-D shrouds are being controlled via Phanteks DRGB hub. Only lighting on the actual board and CPU cooler is controlled via Polychrome.
> 
> In the short numbers of years I've been into this hobby, I've had more Asus boards than any other. My first ever board was an M5A97-LE R2 and I didn't even know what BIOS were so I was a bit scared of having to go in them to set things up, but the interface coupled with the Easy Mode made things A LOT easier for me. Thus far I've dealt with BIOS from Asus, Gigabyte and now Asrock, and I can say that Asus still has the most user-friendly interface out there. Aura is also still tops in my book as well!
> 
> Once I get the board, you'll have to show me the fan control stuff, Tabby



Oh the fan control stuff is easy, you'll get used to it in a jiffy. The Q-fan shortcut is always at the top of the screen (Advanced Mode) where you can draw your fan curves. The real deal is at the bottom of the Monitor tab, where you can tie fans to multiple temp sources and set hysteresis up to crazy long periods (over 1min for case fans iirc, mine are 3.6sec CPU and 24sec case fans). Just blows my mind that none of the others ever "learned" anything from Asus in terms of in-BIOS fan control.

Ironically while the search function is great, AI Tweaker tab is organized pretty well so it's not necessary. But it's nice to have when you need to find just one thing buried deep in AMD's god-awful Overclocking and CBS menus, like TSME.

Can't help you on RGB lol. I hate all RGB and in-OS utilities equally, including Aura. You won't ever catch me with Aura, Mystic, Fusion or Polychrome installed and enabled lmao

The only RGB I ever used was Gigabyte's Fusion on B450, which allowed you to fully control it in BIOS. Bizzarely, it was ONLY on the old BIOSes and they actually removed it from X570 and B550. Definitely a certified Gigabyte moment


----------



## freeagent (Apr 11, 2021)

I have to agree, I was almost instantly disappointed with Aura. There has since been firmware updates to the controller on my board, but I don't want to mess with it now that its working properly. I cant see the VRM one anyways because my cooler is in the way. I do see its reflection on about 5% of the rear exhaust fan though. It would be nice to be able to turn off the lights on my ram without software.. maybe a switch in the bios or something could be doable. But I have that new Thermalright cooler coming so it might block my ram.. not sure yet.. That would mean I would have to install a top intake right above my ram again.. its better than a dedicated ram fan.. but adds a fair bit of noise. I'll worry about it next week.


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## Mussels (Apr 11, 2021)

tabasco; my aourus ax370 had the in bios control too, as soon as they went ARGB they ditched it

in-bios ARGB settings would totally have convinced me to buy one of their boards


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## Gmr_Chick (Apr 11, 2021)

The Asrock board I'm using has RGB control via BIOS but....yeah, it doesn't work properly LOL   

What I like about Aura is the fact that I could control what color every individual LED of my rams sticks were -- so if I wanted, say, to alternate between red and white, I could. And I'm not gonna lie, I love playing around with lighting. Maybe it's just the artist in me?  

Anyway, since my board isn't playing nice with NGENUITY, I've gone back to the standard keys my keyboard came with in the meantime. They're far less retina searing, lol. They're actually not THAT bad. Yes they pick up skin oils fairly easy, but in my experience, Corsair reigns supreme in the "cheap feeling keys" category. The keys that come with the Alloys Origins Core have a more premium-looking matte finish to them, and they feel surprisingly good on my fingers.


----------



## freeagent (Apr 11, 2021)

Dammit. I'm going to install Aura now. There is just as much trepidation with this as there was the first time I set the timings and hit save and exit


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## Mussels (Apr 11, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> The Asrock board I'm using has RGB control via BIOS but....yeah, it doesn't work properly LOL
> 
> What I like about Aura is the fact that I could control what color every individual LED of my rams sticks were -- so if I wanted, say, to alternate between red and white, I could. And I'm not gonna lie, I love playing around with lighting. Maybe it's just the artist in me?
> 
> Anyway, since my board isn't playing nice with NGENUITY, I've gone back to the standard keys my keyboard came with in the meantime. They're far less retina searing, lol. They're actually not THAT bad. Yes they pick up skin oils fairly easy, but in my experience, Corsair reigns supreme in the "cheap feeling keys" category. The keys that come with the Alloys Origins Core have a more premium-looking matte finish to them, and they feel surprisingly good on my fingers.


thats what i did with my corsair ram, fortunately i dont need icue running as it saves to the hardware (and remains saved if i move it to another PC)



freeagent said:


> Dammit. I'm going to install Aura now. There is just as much trepidation with this as there was the first time I set the timings and hit save and exit


oh shit just remember you cant actually uninstall all its garbage without a cleanup tool, safe mode and deleting files and services manually. armoury crate is a fucking offsensive mess.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Apr 11, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> I was yes, but I just now updated to the beta.
> 
> Still getting the "cannot be connected!" message in NGENUITY
> 
> ...



Motherboards seem to just keep coming down in price. My B550-F was AU$350 in October 2020, now it's down to AU$269.

Really the only issue I've had is that on random occasions the onboard WiFi adapter spams "Netwtw08" error messages (Intel(R) Wi-Fi 6 AX200 160MHz : Has encountered an internal error and has failed). I haven't looked into how to fix it yet.


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 11, 2021)

Mussels said:


> oh shit just remember you cant actually uninstall all its garbage without a cleanup tool, safe mode and deleting files and services manually. armoury crate is a fucking offsensive mess.



Regarding Aura, ain't no way in hell I'm installing Armoury Crate. AI Suite maybe (because it seems handy) and maybe a couple others. But AC isn't coming anywhere near my rig. The uninstallation nightmare is well documented on TPU lol.



PooPipeBoy said:


> Motherboards seem to just keep coming down in price. My B550-F was AU$350 in October 2020, now it's down to AU$269.
> 
> Really the only issue I've had is that on random occasions the onboard WiFi adapter spams "Netwtw08" error messages (Intel(R) Wi-Fi 6 AX200 160MHz : Has encountered an internal error and has failed). I haven't looked into how to fix it yet.



Heard nothing but  (almost all) good things about the B550-F. I'm going to get the non-wifi B550-A (the silver version) because I already have a PCIe x1 wifi card  

If mobo prices are going down, somebody forgot to tell Asus, as the Dark Hero is a whopping $450 USD now, lol. I wouldn't mind having the regular Hero but only way I'd be able to get one is if it was gifted to me lol.


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## tabascosauz (Apr 11, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Regarding Aura, ain't no way in hell I'm installing Armoury Crate. AI Suite maybe (because it seems handy) and maybe a couple others. But AC isn't coming anywhere near my rig. The uninstallation nightmare is well documented on TPU lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



All of you stoooop, stooooop making me regret my purchases lol

Mobo prices be falling here too. I paid $249 about a year ago for my B550M TUF Wifi, and now $220-230 can get me any choice of B550-A, Tomahawk or Pro V2. Any of which would fit the general colour scheme a hell of a lot better than the TUF. It's not even that bad of a design, it's just the tramp stamp on the PCH and the stupid lettering on the VRM heatsink - otherwise it looks fine.

But I bought a Cerberus and not a Cerberus X because I wanted to keep all my comps in SFF territory, so I'm in this boat now.  But I guess I shouldn't complain about a reliable board, so maybe I'll take a black sharpie to the heatsink  no matter how I try to like the Cerberus X it just looks poorly proportioned compared to the Cerberus. Price to pay for ATX support, I guess.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 11, 2021)

to all owners who enable smart access memory. I'm able to oc my ram and gpu much farther with it disabled.

pretty annoying that sam is what was messing me up the entire time. it only grants like 2 extra fps in 99% of games i play so yeah much rather gain the extra 20 to 30 I'm getting from massive oc on ram and gpu


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## kapone32 (Apr 11, 2021)

I have no idea why this is happening but my Gaming has been super sweet lately. (past 4 days) Whatever update that was released lately saw a jump in performance in not just feel but visuals (for me). I have been playing Outriders (when it's not crashing) for the past week and noticed that the FPS goes from 110-120 FPS consistently on my 1440P 165HZ panel (set to 120HZ). What is crazy though is I ran the TWWH2 battle benchmark and got the same sort of result with spikes in the 140s. So I load up a saved Game. It's 3 18 stacks against the AI's 2 20 stack Army with Wizards, Phoenix, Dragons and artillery. I could not get over that the Game was never slow (bog down) at any point in the battle (which I lost) that lasted for 22 minutes. Take my money indeed AMD. I used to OC and have a stable 4.7 GHZ all core 1.3 setting in Ryzen Master that works great. I do like PBO though, it's painless and seems to be the best setting for pure Gaming with the least amount of power draw, not that it;s a concern but 65-75 Watts of CPU power for what the 5600X can do is very impressive. Is is not crazy to think that the 5600X is in some cases faster by 80% than the 1600? It's only 2021. I am at a point where I do not need (want) anything right now in terms of PC hardware....That is a good feeling.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 11, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> All of you stoooop, stooooop making me regret my purchases lol
> 
> Mobo prices be falling here too. I paid $249 about a year ago for my B550M TUF Wifi, and now $220-230 can get me any choice of B550-A, Tomahawk or Pro V2. Any of which would fit the general colour scheme a hell of a lot better than the TUF. It's not even that bad of a design, it's just the tramp stamp on the PCH and the stupid lettering on the VRM heatsink - otherwise it looks fine.
> 
> But I bought a Cerberus and not a Cerberus X because I wanted to keep all my comps in SFF territory, so I'm in this boat now.  But I guess I shouldn't complain about a reliable board, so maybe I'll take a black sharpie to the heatsink  no matter how I try to like the Cerberus X it just looks poorly proportioned compared to the Cerberus. Price to pay for ATX support, I guess.


i love my asus board, its merely the software is garbage - i'll yell for days about not using mobo RGB/ARGB controllers


----------



## kapone32 (Apr 11, 2021)

Mussels said:


> i love my asus board, its merely the software is garbage - i'll yell for days about not using mobo RGB/ARGB controllers


For me MSI make the best AM4 boards and have the stablest budget line up. Gigabyte are last resort for me. I do like Asus Strix and above but As Rock went from being good budget to stupid over priced with the same BIOS for a board that cost $89 on a $500 board.


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## tabascosauz (Apr 11, 2021)

Mussels said:


> i love my asus board, its merely the software is garbage - i'll yell for days about not using mobo RGB/ARGB controllers



Oh yeah, you know how much I love the Asus BIOS. I just gripe about how every vendor still treats mATX AM4 like it doesn't deserve a proper midrange treatment with some decent 6-layer PCBs and colour schemes. On Z490 they left out the Gene, now Z590 doesn't even have a frickin Strix, but contrary to expectations all the mATX Intel boards this generations are actually really solid (Asrock excluded, as usual). And MSI hasn't even released theirs yet.

Meanwhile on AM4, Asus gives me the choice of either an absolute ass board in the form of the Prime-A, or a decent board marred by idiotic tramp stamps and yellow accents (which I have). The Steel Legend straight up couldn't handle 3600 on any BIOS when I had it, the Mortar has the most inane clear CMOS position, and Gigabyte didn't even have a competitor until the Pro-P came later.

I could understand the price tag if these boards were proper midrange 6-layers like their intel brethren, but the fact that most are now like $20 cheaper than the likes of the B550-A Strix and Tomahawk just pisses me the f off, they're milking us who cling to hope that they'll stop seeing AM4 mATX specifically as second class citizens


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## Mussels (Apr 11, 2021)

for my mATX builds i just use ITX case and enjoy some extra GPU breathing room *shrug*

Its a dying size


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## Caring1 (Apr 11, 2021)

Mussels said:


> for my mATX builds i just use ITX case and enjoy some extra GPU breathing room *shrug*
> 
> Its a dying size


Have you got that backwards?


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 11, 2021)

Before I find this out myself, in preparation for being without a rig for a bit while my board return goes through, I was wondering if you guys think an HP Envy 360 (it's a 2 in 1) rocking a Ryzen 7 3700U (I think that's what it is) and Vega 8 (or is it 10? lol) graphics would be able to play LEGO Star Wars: The Force Awakens, so long as I lower settings a bit? I know it sure as shit wouldn't run Battlefront II...


----------



## PaulieG (Apr 11, 2021)

Mussels said:


> that is the joy of ryzen, user choice!
> 
> 
> As a 165Hz gamer, i'll take that extra 500Mhz of boost becase 10% is 10%


Agreed. For me, the consistent clocks work better for WCG. I don't do any PC gaming.


----------



## Athlonite (Apr 11, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Regarding Aura, ain't no way in hell I'm installing Armoury Crate. AI Suite maybe (because it seems handy) and maybe a couple others. But AC isn't coming anywhere near my rig. The uninstallation nightmare is well documented on TPU lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've got Armoury crate installed there's nothing wrong with it now it used to be a shit but after quite a few updates it's not anywhere near as bad as it used to be


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## Gmr_Chick (Apr 12, 2021)

OK, listen up peeps! I just got an offer from a local friend. $80 for their Crosshair VI Hero, a board I'm still in love with since my R5 1600 days. It's also the board that spoiled me for USB ports LOL. Anyway, should I go for it? 

Hehe, I still have the instruction manual for my dead C6H. Pour one for ones homies.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 12, 2021)

Caring1 said:


> Have you got that backwards?


nah i cut holes in the case
(yeah ITX board in mATX cases)


----------



## Athlonite (Apr 12, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> OK, listen up peeps! I just got an offer from a local friend. $80 for their Crosshair VI Hero, a board I'm still in love with since my R5 1600 days. It's also the board that spoiled me for USB ports LOL. Anyway, should I go for it?
> 
> Hehe, I still have the instruction manual for my dead C6H. Pour one for ones homies.


depends what CPU you planning on putting in it otherwise thats a cheap C6H which would make a nice little home server


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## Gmr_Chick (Apr 13, 2021)

Athlonite said:


> depends what CPU you planning on putting in it otherwise thats a cheap C6H which would make a nice little home server



Popping my 3600 in it


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## RealKGB (Apr 13, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Popping my 3600 in it


Oh, envy is me...
Wish I could get $80 for a C6H. I also have a 3600.
As it is, the C7H (Wi-Fi) or the X570-E are my dream boards. C7H (Wi-Fi) since I don't need PCIe 4.0 support (Kepler doesn't have it), and X570-E since it's the C7H (Wi-Fi) but with X570, slightly different rear I/O, WiFi 6 instead of WiFi 5, and 2 more SATA ports.

Anyway, go for it!


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## Deleted member 202104 (Apr 13, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Popping my 3600 in it



I don't know the board specifically, but for the money it seems hard to beat.  My personal concern would be that you couldn't pop at 5000 series CPU in it later, but again, for $80 you're not into it for a ton of cabbage.


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 13, 2021)

RealKGB said:


> Oh, envy is me...
> Wish I could get $80 for a C6H. I also have a 3600.
> As it is, the C7H (Wi-Fi) or the X570-E are my dream boards. C7H (Wi-Fi) since I don't need PCIe 4.0 support (Kepler doesn't have it), and X570-E since it's the C7H (Wi-Fi) but with X570, slightly different rear I/O, WiFi 6 instead of WiFi 5, and 2 more SATA ports.
> 
> Anyway, go for it!



The VI Hero is what truly spoiled me, lol. I LOVED mine. I'd like a VII Hero (for...reasons) but $80 is hard to beat for what was arguably one of the best X370 boards (dat VI Extreme tho!)



weekendgeek said:


> I don't know the board specifically, but for the money it seems hard to beat.  My personal concern would be that you couldn't pop at 5000 series CPU in it later, but again, for $80 you're not into it for a ton of cabbage.



I don't think you can pop in a 5000 series, no. But, there again is the beauty of AM4; I don't need latest and greatest (even though it's cool to have) so I could pick up a higher-end 3000 series if need be and be cool with it 

OK, so, I've had a bit of time to think about the offer on the table and have decided to go for it. $80 is an absolute steal, especially considering current Used prices on Ebay. Plus I've had prior experience with that particular model and am still incredibly fond of it -- and where else are you gonna find TWELVE rear USB ports? LOL. Yeah it doesn't support PCIe gen 4 but I could care less. My M.2 SATA SSD runs just fine. One thing that does concern me a bit is the lack of M.2 heatsinks on the VI Hero (the Crosshair VII had one, I believe) but given that my M.2 is running in SATA mode I don't think it generates all that much heat. 

So yeah, I've decided that it's an offer I can't refuse. And being able to make sure I can afford my medication is more important. 

In regards to running a 3000 series Ryzen on X370, is there anything I have to do before popping in the 3600, like a BIOS update or anything? I can use my 1600 to do it, but I also went ahead and saved the specific BIOS that enables 3000 series to run on X370 from the C6H support page. It's on my flash drive, renamed and ready to go


----------



## tabascosauz (Apr 13, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> OK, so, I've had a bit of time to think about the offer on the table and have decided to go for it. $80 is an absolute steal, especially considering current Used prices on Ebay. Plus I've had prior experience with that particular model and am still incredibly fond of it -- and where else are you gonna find TWELVE rear USB ports? LOL. Yeah it doesn't support PCIe gen 4 but I could care less. My M.2 SATA SSD runs just fine. One thing that does concern me a bit is the lack of M.2 heatsinks on the VI Hero (the Crosshair VII had one, I believe) but given that my M.2 is running in SATA mode I don't think it generates all that much heat.
> 
> So yeah, I've decided that it's an offer I can't refuse. And being able to make sure I can afford my medication is more important.
> 
> In regards to running a 3000 series Ryzen on X370, is there anything I have to do before popping in the 3600, like a BIOS update or anything? I can use my 1600 to do it, but I also went ahead and saved the specific BIOS that enables 3000 series to run on X370 from the C6H support page. It's on my flash drive, renamed and ready to go



It's not even just 12 ports. 1 Gen2 + 1 Gen2 type-C + 8 USB 3.0 + 4 USB 2.0, that's 14. That's more than the current Hero and Dark Hero. Not familiar with how the first two Heros held up over time, I only know there was a lot of salt from owners who felt left out from either new AGESA patches. Neither of which should affect you  as long as the other dude properly took care of it

Just don't run anything earlier than version 7704. After 1004B there weren't any noticeable performance changes to Matisse, but prior to 1004A AMD was pretty much running around with their hair on fire. Q3 Q4 2019 was a rough time lol


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## Gmr_Chick (Apr 13, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> *Just don't run anything earlier than version 7704*. After 1004B there weren't any noticeable performance changes to Matisse, but prior to 1004A AMD was pretty much running around with their hair on fire. Q3 Q4 2019 was a rough time lol



Thanks Tabby! Should I just go with 7704 or the newest one, 8002? 8002 came out 3/25/21.


----------



## tabascosauz (Apr 13, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Thanks Tabby! Should I just go with 7704 or the newest one, 8002? 8002 came out 3/25/21.



Probably the 7704 first? Some vendors occasionally slip downgrade blocks in there so you can't go back. But doesn't look like the case here.

I looked at the 8002 BIOS a little and it looks like it was part of a big batch release for AGESA 1201A on a whole bunch of different boards. But it's still AGESA 1006 like the previous C6H BIOS. I haven't read up on the FCLK bug before:




Maybe just see if 7704 or 7901 works fine and stay there if so.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 13, 2021)

put the old chip in, and flash it to the latest BIOS unless they have a thing saying you need a specific one before it
Old chips do get small updates and fixes in the newer BIOS, unless its a buggy BETA (which you cant tell before trying it) its always worth being on the latest


----------



## toilet pepper (Apr 14, 2021)

I just upgraded from a 3600 to a 5800x. First things first, installation was a breeze in a b550 board. Remove old cpu then plug new cpu uninstall old chipset drivers and thats it. (thanks AMD)

This is installed inside an NR200p and an ID-Cooling 234 ARGB cooler. I know the cooler is not the best out there but when I launched Cinebench the temps shot up to 90C in seconds even at 100 % fan speed. I checked several times and it is not a bad mount or bad paste application. I also tried changing cooler orientation and netted the same results. 

Reviews are conflicting and there are several reports on forums with the same concern. I tried undervolting and also Curve Optimizer (separetely) and it nets same result in 90C temps with clock boosting to 4.8Ghz single core and 4.3-4.5GHz multi-core. 

From my reading rabbit hole, here are the things I found: 

- 5800x gets hotter than 5900 and 5950x because all that 1.45V gets pushed into a single CCX. (makes sense but not 90C in seconds sense)
- Not all IMCs are the same. My 5800x can't overclock my RAM like my 3600. No surprise there but I didn't think the 5800x would have difficulty running my sticks at 3600Mhz
- Enabling Windows Spectre/Meltdown mitigation will net you around 3-5% performance gains.
- 90C acccording to AMD is normal. It will throttle clocks automatically if it reaches that temperature.
- The PPT/TDC/EDC limits on motherboards are all different. Mine is at 140W and PBO will utilize that to the limit and is causing the high temps. I set the PPT to 120W and the temp was lower.


----------



## tabascosauz (Apr 14, 2021)

toilet pepper said:


> I just upgraded from a 3600 to a 5800x. First things first, installation was a breeze in a b550 board. Remove old cpu then plug new cpu uninstall old chipset drivers and thats it. (thanks AMD)
> 
> This is installed inside an NR200p and an ID-Cooling 234 ARGB cooler. I know the cooler is not the best out there but when I launched Cinebench the temps shot up to 90C in seconds even at 100 % fan speed. I checked several times and it is not a bad mount or bad paste application. I also tried changing cooler orientation and netted the same results.
> 
> ...



1. You are correct on the heat density of the 5800X, but you won't be pushing 1.45V all-core, PBO or not. That would turn your 5800X and 212 EVO clone into molten slag if it didn't throttle.

2. There's a lot more to memory stability than blaming it on the UMC. The UMC doesn't run into trouble until past 5000. There's a chance your chip may have IF issues, the board may not be feeding it the right secondary voltages, or it may simply be an issue of memory stability. I've personally run the Aorus AX ITX at up to 4600 on single rank and 3800 dual rank.

3. 5800X comes out of the box pegged at 142W PPT, that's stock setting for any board. So is the 90C thermal threshold.

4. An easy way to cut down power and heat on 5800X is just to enable Eco Mode. The issue with trying to do it manually (Eco applies the power limits of a 65W SKU, which are 88/60/90) is that you have to turn on PBO to access the power limits, in which case all bets are off if the board firmware is bugged like mine and doesn't care what you set. @Mussels can tell you about Eco mode 5800X


----------



## toilet pepper (Apr 14, 2021)

Yup. Everything is the same and I tried the same settings with a 5800x and it wont boot. I got my RAM to 3800Mhz stable with the specs below. Its just luck or maybe a future bios update will fix it.







Eco mode affects performance too much. I just lessened the PPT and it it never reached 90C again without performance loss.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 15, 2021)

eco mode does limit the PPT, you're just setting numbers half way in between

sounds like your cooler cant handle a 5800x properly


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Apr 16, 2021)

It seems like I solved the Netwtw08 errors that my B550-F onboard wifi adapter kept spamming every couple of days.

I uninstalled the wifi adapter and I just downloaded the driver directly from Intel for "Intel Wi-Fi 6 AX200 (Gig+)" instead of using the driver on the Asus support website. In the last five days since then it hasn't posted a single error message. That's the longest I've gone without any errors so I'm calling it fixed.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 16, 2021)

asus has the agesa whatever with the USB fix out


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 16, 2021)

Captain Phasma wasn't strong enough on her own in crushing that pesky Resistance, so... she enlisted the help of a Hero. 

A Crosshair Hero, Sixth of his name, to be exact. 

Hehe soooo dramatic right? That was basically a nerdy way of saying the B550 PG Velocita is out and the X370 Crosshair VI Hero is now in and ready to kick some cornhole! 

You guys, he's just as gorgeous as ever. So many damn USB ports, tasteful RGB, 8 SATA ports, more tweaking options than I know what to do with...  C6H is the 1080Ti of AM4 boards -- still a beast! 

Updating the BIOS went off without a hitch. Popped in my OG 1600, stuck the USB thumb drive in, pressed the BIOS Flashback button and boom -- was off to the races after a few minutes. Put my 3600 in and continued the build. 

I forgot just how much I missed ASUS BIOS, lol. 

However, even after all this, I'm still having problems with NGENUITY failing to recognize my HyperX stuff. Did some digging and it sounds like a widespread issue that's been going on since January or thereabouts. The completely weird thing is, it worked fine when I had my Intel system -- all the same components as this build. Just the CPU and mobo were different.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 16, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Captain Phasma wasn't strong enough on her own in crushing that pesky Resistance, so... she enlisted the help of a Hero.
> 
> A Crosshair Hero, Sixth of his name, to be exact.
> 
> ...


Nerd


(the hyperX thing may be windows update related?)


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 16, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Nerd
> 
> 
> (the hyperX thing may be windows update related?)



Hahaha, guilty!  

Regarding the issues with the HyperX program, you're guess is as good as mine as to whether or not it could be Windows update related. Or maybe Microsoft Store related. I'm not sure what to do about it anymore. (the rainbow puke is driving me nuts)


----------



## Athlonite (Apr 17, 2021)

Mussels said:


> asus has the agesa whatever with the USB fix out


Yeah still have a problem with my Oppo A72 and the USB typeC port on my mobo though it will charge to phone but that's it it doesn't recognise any data connection but it used to 2 BIOS flashes ago


----------



## freeagent (Apr 17, 2021)

I found a glitch in the Matrix 

I do all of my overclocking in bios.. earlier I was running PBO with Linpack Extreme and saw it was trying to feed 1.3v for 4600. I only need 1.25v for that. So I usually run 4600 with PBO off and just manually set my vcore, soc, and occasionally LLC for when I venture over 4600 briefly because I could never get anything over 4600 stable in any kind of fashion. So today while playing with Linpack I made that 1.3v observation.. I quickly went back into the bios and set the multi to 47 vcore to 1.3 gave soc a little bump to 1.16 not sure if that was needed.. and forgot to turn PBO off. I also forgot to turn my fans off of auto.. because normally if I try to run OCCT at 4700 I get errors within minutes. Minutes went by, then a half hour, and it completed without any errors at 4700 lol.. I don't know if it could do it with less voltage.. but needless to say I am happy  But not about that 5c spike.. makes me want to re run it with my fans up, but its under 80 so whatever for now..  




Alright had to see with the fans turned up lol.. my youngest tried to squeeze in a round of Roblox and he closed HWinfo about halfway through.. bummer but that spike is still there 



Edit again:

I was able to tweak my voltage a little and got it down to 1.2815v.. not bad. 4800 is much harder to get.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 18, 2021)

Whoops, i must have missed a setting when i upgraded the BIOS


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 19, 2021)

Well, I may end up having to ask my bud for my money back and return the Hero. My internet connection keeps crapping out. My adapter is up to date (downloaded Intel's Driver Support Assistant), I'm on the latest BIOS for the board, but the damn connection keeps dropping.

Also, not related to my VI Hero but, I just read an interesting customer review on Amazon for the X570 Taichi. Guy said the board worked fine for a couple months, but then the problems started. First, the chipset fan started acting up, and now it makes a weird buzzing/grinding noise 100% of the time. Then the bit that most caught my eye, the USB ports took a massive crap. Guy put in for an RMA to ASRock and ASRock agreed to send him a replacement...but then backtracked and said they were "out of stock" even though the guy said he was able to find the same board on Newegg and other sites. Like, wtf? 

But seriously, I'm getting really fed up with this whole thing, to the point where I want to just say fuck it and sell off the whole goddamn system...


----------



## freeagent (Apr 19, 2021)

My board had an issue with its lan too. I almost sent it back. It would take 38 seconds for it to initialize after every boot or wake from sleep for the first two or three months that I owned it. But then a bios update came, cant remember which one and it is now fixed, and same with Aura too.. Hopefully there will be one for you too!


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 19, 2021)

OK ya'll, please bear with me here but I was getting ready to call it a night when I got struck by an epiphany of sorts. Remember the problems with the ASRock PG Velocita I was having when it came to the HyperX software I use? (I remember thinking my USB ports were screwed) I was just thinking, since stuff seems to be working now that I've done a clean W10 installation on the Crosshair VI Hero (aside from the constant internet connection drops), maybe the board wasn't faulty in that regard -- though it WAS still faulty when it came to one of the RGB headers -- and I was just being a dum dum.


----------



## toilet pepper (Apr 19, 2021)

I experienced the USB and Network adapter problems when I moved to b550 but they are all fixed now with updating the Chipset drivers and getting the Network driver from Intel and Realtek.


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 20, 2021)

toilet pepper said:


> I experienced the USB and Network adapter problems when I moved to b550 but they are all fixed now with updating the Chipset drivers and getting the Network driver from Intel and Realtek.



Problem is, I'm running an X370 board, and I get the hunch my Crosshair VI Hero was lucky enough to even get a recent BIOS update (which I have installed already), but given X370's "age" I'm not sure how much longer it'll get said BIOS updates. 

Anyway, as much as I like the VI Hero, my needs have changed since I had my original one back when Ryzen first came out. Talked to my friend and he completely understood and agreed to give me my $$$ back and take the board. 

Maybe you guys can help me pick a board? I liked the B550 Velocita when I had it because it had plenty of fan headers, 2 USB 2.0 headers, 2 ARGB headers (one didn't work though) and 2 RGB headers, a heatpipe on the VRM heatsinks, a decent amount of rear USB ports, and was predominately silver, with red and black accents. What I didn't like about it, however, was the BIOS and the lack of any kind of BIOS flashback button, which I find to be inexcusable  for the price range -- even my mom's Asus B450M-A II, which is as budget as you can get, has a BIOS flashback button for fuck's sake!  

So, my needs are: 

2x ARGB headers
At least 1x RGB header
3 or more chassis fan headers 
At least one M.2 heatsink
BIOS Flashback button 
Good VRM cooling 
4 or more rear USB ports 
At least 1 PCIe x1 slot 

Thank you in advance


----------



## freeagent (Apr 20, 2021)

I really like my strix b550-f.. it’s been pretty good to me so far


----------



## stinger608 (Apr 20, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I really like my strix b550-f.. it’s been pretty good to me so far



I just finished a review of the Strix B550-F WiFi. 

Have you had any issues getting into the bios after a reboot? I updated the board to the latest bios and sometimes I have to shut it down, shut the power off, and then boot it up to get to the bios.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 20, 2021)

stinger608 said:


> I just finished a review of the Strix B550-F WiFi.
> 
> Have you had any issues getting into the bios after a reboot? I updated the board to the latest bios and sometimes I have to shut it down, shut the power off, and then boot it up to get to the bios.


quick boot does that, gotta disable it, or 'restart' from windows not shut down


----------



## Athlonite (Apr 20, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> So, my needs are:
> 
> 2x ARGB headers
> At least 1x RGB header
> ...



ROG Strix X570 F Gaming or E if you really must have WIFI


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 20, 2021)

Athlonite said:


> ROG Strix X570 F Gaming or E if you really must have WIFI



Was looking at those but -- and I don't know what's going on -- both the E and F Strix boards have seemingly disappeared off the face of the planet, or if you can find one it's priced crazy. I kinda wonder if Asus has discontinued those two boards because you literally can't find either of them.


----------



## stinger608 (Apr 20, 2021)

Mussels said:


> quick boot does that, gotta disable it, or 'restart' from windows not shut down



Oh yeah, disabled that from the get-go. And have done the "restart" from windows.


----------



## tabascosauz (Apr 20, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Was looking at those but -- and I don't know what's going on -- both the E and F Strix boards have seemingly disappeared off the face of the planet, or if you can find one it's priced crazy. I kinda wonder if Asus has discontinued those two boards because you literally can't find either of them.



I thought you were decided on getting the Strix-A?

There's not a whole lot choices out there that preserve the silver aesthetic without being a straight up downgrade. Not unless you wanna put a Mortar in that case, which incidentally still happens to be a downgrade.



stinger608 said:


> I just finished a review of the Strix B550-F WiFi.
> 
> Have you had any issues getting into the bios after a reboot? I updated the board to the latest bios and sometimes I have to shut it down, shut the power off, and then boot it up to get to the bios.



You can also disable the boot logo. It shows the American Megatrends initialization screen, which you can set to have a much longer POST delay to make it easier to spam Del to get into BIOS. I do that for both my boards, no need to look at the cheesy eagle or tramp stamp.


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 20, 2021)

Strix-A is still at the top, yes, but I just want to consider back ups should that board suddenly go out of stock. 

Oddly enough, I found the B550 PG Velocita on Amazon just now, new, for close to what I paid for the one I got from Amazon Warehouse used - around $160, lol. The new one isn't sold directly by Amazon though, but rather a place called PlatinumMicro....


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Apr 20, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I really like my strix b550-f.. it’s been pretty good to me so far



Hell yeah, especially now that the initial Ryzen 5000 beta bugs have been ironed out. Mostly.

I just saw that the Gigabyte B550M-S2H boards are going for AU$89 at PCCG here in Australia, which is a ridiculous (awesome) price. They were AU$155 when I bought two of them in 2020 for a couple of other systems and there hasn't been a single issue with them.


----------



## RealKGB (Apr 20, 2021)

Question - if you had to choose between the X570-E and Crosshair VII Hero (Wi-Fi), ignoring PCIe generation and WiFi generation support, which would you choose?
I'm curious what y'all think since those are the two boards I'm considering (only two ones that I've found that have all the features I need, and no I will not choose a manufacturer other than ASUS - I like their RGB software, BIOS, website, and support).


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 20, 2021)

RealKGB said:


> Question - if you had to choose between the X570-E and Crosshair VII Hero (Wi-Fi), ignoring PCIe generation and WiFi generation support, which would you choose?
> I'm curious what y'all think since those are the two boards I'm considering (only two ones that I've found that have all the features I need, and no I will not choose a manufacturer other than ASUS - I like their RGB software, BIOS, website, and support).



Great question! But the best I can say is, since they both have the features you're looking for, I would say get whichever one you find more aesthetically pleasant to look at


----------



## freeagent (Apr 20, 2021)

I think I know what you are talking about. Is the white light on when it does that? For me it happens with a really unstable OC, it just bypasses the boot screen and dives right into windows really fast.. You can mash delete all you want and nothing? I just clear the cmos and all is well. But if it does that for you frequently and you are not tuned at all I would say it possibly doesn't like your ram..


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 20, 2021)

Seriously, why can't AM4 have boards like this?


----------



## freeagent (Apr 20, 2021)

But! If you get a big heatsink you wont see it..

Edit:
A big silver heatsink


----------



## Athlonite (Apr 20, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Was looking at those but -- and I don't know what's going on -- both the E and F Strix boards have seemingly disappeared off the face of the planet, or if you can find one it's priced crazy. I kinda wonder if Asus has discontinued those two boards because you literally can't find either of them.


Amazon has the Strix E 






						Amazon.com: ASUS ROG Strix X570-E Gaming ATX Motherboard- PCIe 4.0, Aura Sync RGB Lighting, 2.5 Gbps and Intel Gigabit LAN, WIFI 6 (802.11Ax), Dual M.2 Heatsinks: Computers & Accessories
					

Buy ASUS ROG Strix X570-E Gaming ATX Motherboard- PCIe 4.0, Aura Sync RGB Lighting, 2.5 Gbps and Intel Gigabit LAN, WIFI 6 (802.11Ax), Dual M.2 Heatsinks: Motherboards - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com


----------



## RealKGB (Apr 20, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Great question! But the best I can say is, since they both have the features you're looking for, I would say get whichever one you find more aesthetically pleasant to look at


Thanks for the advice!
Thinking out loud, here's what I've got.
C7H pros:
- It's a Crosshair board
- It has a PS/2 port (allowing me to use my PS/2 keyboard that I stopped using since my PS/2 to USB adapter bugs out when running Minecraft)
- It has 9 USB-A ports instead of 7
- It has a rear Clear CMOS button along with a clearer BIOS flashback button
- It's much easier to install M.2 drives
- It has open-back PCIe 1x slots
- Less expensive
C7H cons:
- It has only 6 SATA ports (vs. 8 on the X570-E)
- It's X470 instead of X570, meaning no PCIe 4.0 support
- It only has WiFi 5 (802.11ac)
- It doesn't have 2.5Gb Ethernet
X570-E pros:
- X570 chipset, meaning it will likely have driver support for longer
- Supports PCIe 4.0
- Has 8 SATA ports instead of 6
- Supports WiFi 6 (802.11ax)
- Has dual LAN (2.5Gb and 1Gb)
X570-E cons:
- Doesn't have open-backed PCIe 1x slots
- Doesn't have a rear Clear CMOS button and its BIOS flashback button is annoying to press
- Has an annoying M.2 drive installation method
- Has 2 less USB-A ports
- More expensive

I think I'll go with the C7H. I like the way it looks, and the X570-E costs more and doesn't really give me many benefits for the added cost. Plus then I can say that I have a Crosshair board, not a Strix board 
Any ideas on a good place to find/buy them?


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 20, 2021)

Athlonite said:


> Amazon has the Strix E
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's not SOLD by Amazon though, hence the crazy price


----------



## thesmokingman (Apr 20, 2021)

RealKGB said:


> Question - if you had to choose between the X570-E and Crosshair VII Hero (Wi-Fi), ignoring PCIe generation and WiFi generation support, which would you choose?
> I'm curious what y'all think since those are the two boards I'm considering (only two ones that I've found that have all the features I need, and no I will not choose a manufacturer other than ASUS - I like their RGB software, BIOS, website, and support).


Strix-E, easy. The E has basically the same vrm setup as the CH8 boards, they're vary similar. The E has one external temp sensor ie just like the CH8, that's a big point for me. The real difference between the the E and the CH boards is that the CH boards get the dual stage overclock bios where it lets you run whatever allcore static setting at the same time as a boost overclock. The trick is it switches between the two. I can't remember what they called but it's not a deal breaker for me at least. Also, you cannot separate the the pcie system, the x570 is such a huge increase. This will be especially important if you move a ton of data or use a lot of usb devices.


----------



## freeagent (Apr 20, 2021)

From a performance standpoint, is there anything to gain by switching from b550 to x570? Maybe some neat overclocking features or something of that nature? I'm not talking about an extra m.2 or anything like that, but a technical overclocking advantage?


----------



## thesmokingman (Apr 20, 2021)

freeagent said:


> From a performance standpoint, is there anything to gain by switching from b550 to x570? Maybe some neat overclocking features or something of that nature? I'm not talking about an extra m.2 or anything like that, but a technical overclocking advantage?


There shouldn't be but if there is it's in the manufacturers hands. B550 boards have a crapton of variance, so pick carefully what additions each board comes with because they are tacked on and that adds to pricing.


----------



## toilet pepper (Apr 20, 2021)

freeagent said:


> From a performance standpoint, is there anything to gain by switching from b550 to x570? Maybe some neat overclocking features or something of that nature? I'm not talking about an extra m.2 or anything like that, but a technical overclocking advantage?



Nothing. B550 is newer (has 2.5G) and most of the boards have better memory traces. I think they're coming up with a new x570 though.


----------



## freeagent (Apr 20, 2021)

Awesome thanks. I thought I read someone was able to set a +500 curve with the 5600x on x570.. I could be mistaken though. I have a limit of 250 I think. Well 4850 is my cap and I'm not sure how to pass it. Not that it really matters anyways because at 4700 it could reach its power limit. There was that, and maybe a better possibility of driving four sticks to 2000fclk. I could run some benches at 4900 but I manually set it for 1 clock 1 voltage


----------



## tabascosauz (Apr 20, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Seriously, why can't AM4 have boards like this?
> 
> 
> View attachment 197464



The things I'd do for an mATX board with:

AM4
6-layer PCB
Any VRM with 8 x 50A Vcore or better
VRM spacing of my current TUF
Silver heatsinks a la Mortar or Z590M Gaming X
BIOS flashback
Reasonable CMOS header location
8 or more rear USB ports
On a separate note, how do you feel about the Tomahawk? I feel like MSI really dropped the ball by not giving it the silver heatsink+wifi treatment it did the Mortar. Could give the Strix-A a run for its money.



RealKGB said:


> Thanks for the advice!
> Thinking out loud, here's what I've got.
> C7H pros:
> - It's a Crosshair board
> ...



If it was between the C8H and the Strix-E I'd tell you to go for the Strix-E unless you do XOC and really need the POST code or USB ports. Well, even for XOC the POST code isn't as useful on AMD.

As it's the X470 Hero, I'd definitely say Strix-E. X470 has the stupid-ass bandwidth sharing problem and iirc the X470 Hero still has it just in a less problematic way compared to some others. That, and Asus is pretty terrible for supporting old boards with new AGESA fixes so I really don't know why you'd go out of your way to buy an obsolete product.

The lack of a clear CMOS button is easily remedied by hooking up a vandal switch to the pins.


@freeagent if you go to any X570 that's not the Dark Hero or a late PCB revision if the vendor publishes that info, it will probably be a downgrade on the memory side from B550. By how much exactly can't say, it seemed like mostly Gigabyte X570s that suffered on memory speeds, but I did read somewhere that the C8 Impact made for horrible memory OCing despite its design and reputation


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 20, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> The things I'd do for an mATX board with:
> 
> AM4
> 6-layer PCB
> ...



The Tomahawk is...OK, I suppose. I don't know, MSI boards don't really "do it" for me. Like, you go to the product page for any MSI board, and it's nothing but marketing buzzwords and no real information. Like, at least give me the basics, you know?


----------



## Mussels (Apr 20, 2021)

RealKGB said:


> Question - if you had to choose between the X570-E and Crosshair VII Hero (Wi-Fi), ignoring PCIe generation and WiFi generation support, which would you choose?
> I'm curious what y'all think since those are the two boards I'm considering (only two ones that I've found that have all the features I need, and no I will not choose a manufacturer other than ASUS - I like their RGB software, BIOS, website, and support).


you... like asus RGB software?


----------



## thesmokingman (Apr 20, 2021)

toilet pepper said:


> Nothing. B550 is newer (has 2.5G) and most of the boards have better memory traces. I think they're coming up with a new x570 though.


It may be technically newer but it's not better and it doesn't have 2.5G. That like other options are tacked on. And traces.... lol wut? The top end of the board, is on the cpu. The only difference is the lower end, ie. the chipset which is not a pos anymore being upgraded to pcie3. It's still rather weak but it's a helluva lot better then pcie2 of the previous chipset.


----------



## tabascosauz (Apr 20, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> The Tomahawk is...OK, I suppose. I don't know, MSI boards don't really "do it" for me. Like, you go to the product page for any MSI board, and it's nothing but marketing buzzwords and no real information. Like, at least give me the basics, you know?



I guess you're right. I just never noticed because I don't ever read the main page   the most I'll do is the board overview picture that Gigabyte likes to make starting with B550 boards, it's actually quite nice. Funny you should mention that though, ASRock is certainly the worst offender for me lol



thesmokingman said:


> It may be technically newer but it's not better and it doesn't have 2.5G. That like other options are tacked on. And traces.... lol wut? The top end of the board, is on the cpu. The only difference is the lower end, ie. the chipset which is not a pos anymore being upgraded to pcie3. It's still rather weak but it's a helluva lot better then pcie2 of the previous chipset.



It's not a consequence of the chipset being B550, more that B550 happened to be just in time to pick up on general improvements in memory plane design across a few vendors. It's most obvious with Gigabyte where you can easily compare X570 v1.0 boards to X570 v1.1/1.2 boards and B550 boards. 

It might not be the case for other vendors, but for Gigabyte boards you can usually glean a fair bit of info from what their rated mem speeds. Of course in 2021 it doesn't mean much anymore because vendors later took the opportunity to just go back and revise some of their spec pages regardless of whether they changed anything.


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 20, 2021)

I'll be honest, my "dream" board is actually a tie between the C8 Hero and the Asrock Phantom Gaming X, but they're both completely out of my price range. It sucks not being able to earn your own income, lol.


----------



## Calmmo (Apr 20, 2021)

Mussels said:


> you... like asus RGB software?



I tried their latest RGB software (one you now need to control their 3080 cards) and it's pure garbage. Installs a billion different apps and services that hog your system BG, and in fact it screwed up my win install to the point i couldnt remove some things without manual services/registry effort.. not to mention the noticable perf (measurable) loss. Never again.


----------



## tabascosauz (Apr 20, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> I'll be honest, my "dream" board is actually a tie between the C8 Hero and the Asrock Phantom Gaming X, but they're both completely out of my price range. It sucks not being able to earn your own income, lol.



Amen to that. I took a break from school for medical reasons and worked a couple of blue collar jobs for a while. Less than 2 months until exam torture is over and I can graduate and I keep telling myself that it'll all be worth it in the end, but it's always really hard going from having a bit of regular income back to school and just living off savings.

If it's any consolation, the PGX and PG-V are like, the same board  minus the wifi and flashback button. I love the new Z590 OCF but ASRock really has to step up the rest of its lineup and stop recycling the same board. Gotta stop cutting wifi and flashback out of their boards for no effing reason and actually designing some decent heatsinks not covered up with plastic instead of just adding more phases. The copy paste 50A Vishay parts from Steel Legend onto something as expensive as Taichi are just embarrassing compared to the competition.

Now that you've mentioned the Hero I'll just keep repeating it until you inevitably cave in to the ROG allure. DARK HERO, DARK HERO, DARK HERO, DARK HERO, DARK HERO, DARK HERO, DARK HERO


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 20, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Amen to that. I took a break from school for medical reasons and worked a couple of blue collar jobs for a while. Less than 2 months until exam torture is over and I can graduate and I keep telling myself that it'll all be worth it in the end, but it's always really hard going from having a bit of regular income back to school and just living off savings.
> 
> If it's any consolation, the PGX and PG-V are like, the same board  minus the wifi and flashback button. I love the new Z590 OCF but ASRock really has to step up the rest of its lineup and stop recycling the same board. Gotta stop cutting wifi and flashback out of their boards for no effing reason and actually designing some decent heatsinks not covered up with plastic instead of just adding more phases. The copy paste 50A Vishay parts from Steel Legend onto something as expensive as Taichi are just embarrassing compared to the competition.
> 
> *Now that you've mentioned the Hero I'll just keep repeating it until you inevitably cave in to the ROG allure. DARK HERO, DARK HERO, DARK HERO, DARK HERO, DARK HERO, DARK HERO, DARK HERO*



Mehehe, I do like the look of the Hero's more stealthy brother. You gonna buy it for me? Because that's the only way I'm ever getting one lol


----------



## RealKGB (Apr 20, 2021)

Mussels said:


> you... like asus RGB software?


Yes.
I tried the other ones at a Micro Center once. It was not fun.
I don't know why people are complaining - it uses 50MB of RAM and 0.1% CPU across all of its services.

As for which board, I would do the X570-E if there wasn't one problem - they've just up and vanished...
Two months ago, I could find them for $310. Now they're just gone and I can pay less to get a C8H.


----------



## toilet pepper (Apr 20, 2021)

Calmmo said:


> I tried their latest RGB software (one you now need to control their 3080 cards) and it's pure garbage. Installs a billion different apps and services that hog your system BG, and in fact it screwed up my win install to the point i couldnt remove some things without manual services/registry effort.. not to mention the noticable perf (measurable) loss. Never again.



Atleast yours work. My Gigabyte Fusion does not even work. You can install it and if you're lucky you can change the lights but once you restart its back to orange. I used the cooler master ARGB controller and hooked it up via usb. The Cooler Master software can control individual leds for their fans.


----------



## freeagent (Apr 20, 2021)

The Aura software isn't as horrible as I recalled it to be.. the uninstall tool works really well. Its crazy that is its own separate program @ 122mb lol (the uninstaller)


----------



## thesmokingman (Apr 20, 2021)

Yea the aura software isn't nearly as bad as the gigafails. And you used to be able to just install aura alone, then uninstall it. I keep my rgb off nowadays so I don't even install it these days.


----------



## toilet pepper (Apr 20, 2021)

thesmokingman said:


> Yea the aura software isn't nearly as bad as the gigafails. And you used to be able to just install aura alone, then uninstall it. I keep my rgb off nowadays so I don't even install it these days.


That's the thing. I cant turn it off. The previous Gigatrash board I had was the AX370 Gaming 5 and it had the RGB fusion thing in BIOS. The Aorus B550i doesn't have it in the BIOS though. 

I just want to have atleast the RGB turned off if I can't change it.


----------



## freeagent (Apr 20, 2021)

I can turn off the mobo ones in the bios but I need software to turn off my ram


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Apr 20, 2021)

Aura is actually pretty decent -- the standalone version anyway, which is supposedly going to stop receiving updates "soon", according to the AURA site. The Aura packed inside Armoury Crate is close to gutter trash. Doesn't recognize my RAM in the "devices" tab even though said ram is supported, so all I can do is sync it to my board's color. Major fail. 

Gigabyte's RGB Fusion, on the other hand IS complete gutter trash. Back when I briefly had the X570 Master (long story) I used it to control the board lighting (which was also dim as hell) and every time I started the program, it would throw up a message saying my resolution needed to be higher...even though 1080p IS the highest my monitor can go! Not to mention it would always default all my lighting to orange. If you ask me, that program needs to be nuked from orbit and rebuilt by people with more than one effing brain cell.


----------



## freeagent (Apr 20, 2021)

Maybe they are sharing that braincell to stay warm


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Apr 21, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Aura is actually pretty decent -- the standalone version anyway, which is supposedly going to stop receiving updates "soon", according to the AURA site. The Aura packed inside Armoury Crate is close to gutter trash. Doesn't recognize my RAM in the "devices" tab even though said ram is supported, so all I can do is sync it to my board's color. Major fail.
> 
> Gigabyte's RGB Fusion, on the other hand IS complete gutter trash. Back when I briefly had the X570 Master (long story) I used it to control the board lighting (which was also dim as hell) and every time I started the program, it would throw up a message saying my resolution needed to be higher...even though 1080p IS the highest my monitor can go! Not to mention it would always default all my lighting to orange. If you ask me, that program needs to be nuked from orbit and rebuilt by people with more than one effing brain cell.



The thing I can't stand about RGB software is the amount of useless marketing junk they try to cram in. I mean Asus Armoury Crate has a "Game Deals" section where you need to be logged into your Asus account in order to purchase "exclusive deal" Steam games. I don't know who on god's green earth would find that useful when Steam has their own sales. And then there's an Asus "news" section. Haven't they heard of Google and reputable tech news forums like.....oh I don't know......TechPowerUp?


----------



## Mussels (Apr 21, 2021)

RealKGB said:


> Yes.
> I tried the other ones at a Micro Center once. It was not fun.
> I don't know why people are complaining - it uses 50MB of RAM and 0.1% CPU across all of its services.
> 
> ...


No it really doesnt use that little - it installs a good 15 different programs and processes, and you gotta add them alllll up


On the new "USB is better" BIOS my 128GB USB3 stick errors out on my front case ports and crashes our my USB controllers - interesting fun times


edit: oh shit you guys are thinking of aura - thats been discontinued and doesnt work on new hardware, you need the armoury crate these days


----------



## RealKGB (Apr 21, 2021)

Mussels said:


> No it really doesnt use that little - it installs a good 15 different programs and processes, and you gotta add them alllll up


Yep, I have Armoury Crate. I counted them all and I got 66.9 MB of RAM and 0.2% CPU.
I'm also only controlling the little motherboard lights on my B350-F, but yeah, I really don't see what people are complaining about. It doesn't change anything about responsiveness - the only program that does it for me is F@H when the projects hit the 3D renderer on my GPUs


----------



## Mussels (Apr 22, 2021)

RealKGB said:


> Yep, I have Armoury Crate. I counted them all and I got 66.9 MB of RAM and 0.2% CPU.
> I'm also only controlling the little motherboard lights on my B350-F, but yeah, I really don't see what people are complaining about. It doesn't change anything about responsiveness - the only program that does it for me is F@H when the projects hit the 3D renderer on my GPUs


did you notice all the other things it installs too, all the different branded RGB control software, the processes for auto updates, etc?
It took me a good 3 hours to clean my system of all the files crate installed, it crashed  out conflicting with icue 4.9 and wouldnt uninstall the regular way (with or without asus cleanup tool)


----------



## Athlonite (Apr 22, 2021)

Mussels said:


> did you notice all the other things it installs too, all the different branded RGB control software, the processes for auto updates, etc?
> It took me a good 3 hours to clean my system of all the files crate installed, it crashed  out conflicting with icue 4.9 and wouldnt uninstall the regular way (with or without asus cleanup tool)


For problems like that that's when I call on Revo Uninstaller takes care of pretty much 99.9% of that sort of crap being left behind 
as for it installing this that and the next thing if you don't require it shut it down and delete the stuff you don't use crate will still work without it


----------



## RealKGB (Apr 22, 2021)

Mussels said:


> did you notice all the other things it installs too, all the different branded RGB control software, the processes for auto updates, etc?
> It took me a good 3 hours to clean my system of all the files crate installed, it crashed  out conflicting with icue 4.9 and wouldnt uninstall the regular way (with or without asus cleanup tool)


Yep, I did. I plan on only buying RGB products that go inside a case, since I often get my keyboard messy and RGB will just make it stand out more. If I do end up with Corsair RGB things, I'll sell 'em.

Side note - I get free full-uninstall service since I have a Windows reinstall average of one every two months.


----------



## Taraquin (Apr 25, 2021)

Finally got around to test curve optimizer on my 5600X. Using -30 undervolt and +200pbo everything is stable and I get 150MHz all core in CB20, 200MHz in SC still using 76W max


----------



## freeagent (Apr 26, 2021)

Is there any way to break away from the +200MHz cap in PBO? I would like to sneak an extra 100-150MHz in if I could.. I played with CO a little just for all core and its interesting. It would be nice if you had individual multiplier control for each core right in the bios. Can you do that with Ryzen Master? I only used that program a couple of times, and I would say I just had it installed a couple of times, I haven't really actually used it.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Apr 27, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Finally got around to test curve optimizer on my 5600X. Using -30 undervolt and +200pbo everything is stable and I get 150MHz all core in CB20, 200MHz in SC still using 76W max



How is the long term stability? Generally if it can last a week without crashing then you're good. Last time I tried -30 undervolt it seemed stable but then hard restarted after a few days of use.


----------



## Taraquin (Apr 27, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> How is the long term stability? Generally if it can last a week without crashing then you're good. Last time I tried -30 undervolt it seemed stable but then hard restarted after a few days of use.


You were right. After a couple of days I got 2 restarts during heavy multitasking. I backed down to +50 on pbo yesterday and seems stable now. Should I reduce UV on the worst cores if I'm to get +200 stable?


----------



## Calmmo (Apr 28, 2021)

Anyone else get W10 updates for AMD today? I've the lastest installed from AMD and yet windows decided to DL these two

Advanced Micro Devices Inc. - SecurityDevices - 4.15.0.0
and
AMD - System - 20.50.0.0


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Apr 28, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> You were right. After a couple of days I got 2 restarts during heavy multitasking. I backed down to +50 on pbo yesterday and seems stable now. Should I reduce UV on the worst cores if I'm to get +200 stable?



I haven't used the PBO frequency boost at all so I'm not sure how dependent they both are. One would think that AMD programmed PBO to take both into consideration.


----------



## tabascosauz (Apr 30, 2021)

So you've probably heard everyone say that DDR4 holds iGPUs back.
Well, how about the _iGPU_ holding the _DDR4_ back, for a change?




Yeah, that's a 1.2V VSOC......dropping to 1.106V............and on Extreme LLC (highest available for VSOC), no less. Come on, man, I can't sustain even 4266 game stable on 1.106V, let alone 4400  

I can test memory all day long and at worst it'll drop to 1.160V. As soon as that Vega iGPU comes online and starts drawing 80W of power, boom 1.10V and black screen. I _suppose_ I could scale the iGPU back to alleviate IF load, but that just reintroduces the VDDCR_GFX power limit, probably still won't do 2200MHz IF stable, and annuls the fps gains I made. Also can't just go higher - if 1.2V is the safe VSOC limit for the 12nm Matisse IOD, then there's no frickin way I'm running 1.25V through the 7nm Renoir UMC, IF, and Vega GPU.

I'm not even sure if it's a VRM problem. Even if it is, how can you improve over a 2-phase ISL99390 VSOC loop? Unless someone makes a board with a 4-phase SPS VSOC loop (literally never happening)......


----------



## JrRacinFan (Apr 30, 2021)

Quick q for you Ryzen guys. Im too lazy to google. If i set an all core OC will C0 states still have the cores park and sleep?


----------



## freeagent (Apr 30, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> So you've probably heard everyone say that DDR4 holds iGPUs back.
> Well, how about the _iGPU_ holding the _DDR4_ back, for a change?
> 
> View attachment 198618
> ...


Thats a bummer man. 80w and kerpow.. I guess more than 1.2 is not favored? I wonder if it would be ok because of the iGPU..

Ok because I wasn't sure if my ram was stable at a speed I couldn't remember was good or not, I ran a couple of things lol.. looks like they are ok at 1.55v.. not even warm..






Anyways.. that is all


----------



## Mussels (May 1, 2021)

JrRacinFan said:


> Quick q for you Ryzen guys. Im too lazy to google. If i set an all core OC will C0 states still have the cores park and sleep?


i believe so, but they certainly idle higher than on auto

damnit one of the new zen 3 features was the ability to per-vid clock and volt and i forgot its name, but that worked with full idle


----------



## toilet pepper (May 1, 2021)

The new AMD StoreMI is up on AMD's website. I have used the older one before and it was clunky and especially painful when uninstalling the thing. I read the new guide on this one and it seems better when uninstalling it.


----------



## QuietBob (May 1, 2021)

Mussels said:


> i believe so, but they certainly idle higher than on auto


I couldn't tell any difference personally. Wouldn't Zen 3 behave the same?


----------



## tabascosauz (May 1, 2021)

JrRacinFan said:


> Quick q for you Ryzen guys. Im too lazy to google. If i set an all core OC will C0 states still have the cores park and sleep?



I don't think an all-core affects C-states unless you've also gone and flipped the global Cstates option.

My 4650G idles about the same as stock when on 4.0 all core. It does draw about 3-4W more power at idle though, but that's about it. C6 residency looks the same, didn't check Ryzen Master to see if they were sleeping though.

Granted, that's monolithic Zen 2 where it was only drawing 6W idle package power stock (chiplet Ryzen idles at like 15-30W), but in the murky corners of my memories I could have sworn the 3700X didn't do anything crazy either at 4.0 all core

so probably lower and more consistent idle temps in exchange for a little bit higher minimum package power


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 4, 2021)

Ryzen 5000 seems to keep getting better. Now I'm on negative 30 all cores with the curve optimizer and haven't had any errors for seven days. I tried the same settings a few months ago and it made the system hard reset after a few days of use.


----------



## tabascosauz (May 4, 2021)

So in Radeon 21.4 drivers they finally fixed the GPU ASIC Power readout for APUs:

A late fix is better than no fix, that doesn't mean that AMD suddenly learned how to write firmware:

3700X experiencing heat death of the universe:


4650G unleashing its 8K120hz prowess:


5900X beating Bulldozer without using LN2:



Enjoy


----------



## Mussels (May 5, 2021)

neagitve 10 thousand degrees?

Must be using a delta fan


----------



## QuietBob (May 9, 2021)

With a view to the coming heatwaves, I've been tinkering with my CPU. 11w output in Cinebench R23 and still feels adequate for typical home use. Curiously, lowering V_soc didn't seem to affect its power draw.





Now I'm ready for those 30c ambients


----------



## Mussels (May 9, 2021)

Oh yeah, i ran eco mode for summer here as well - i LOVE that a simple toggle can change our power consumption so wildly


----------



## tabascosauz (May 10, 2021)

Finally made it over 9000  stable on Geekbench 3 mem score, doesn't mean much outside of OC but hey bandwidth is good




DR E-die @ 3800CL16 + 4650G: 8142
DR CJR @ 3733CL16 + 3700X: 8323
DR CJR @ 3600CL16 + 5900X: 8543
SR A0 B-die @ 4000CL16 + 4650G: 8618
SR A0 B-die @ 4200CL17 + 4650G: 8867
SR A2 B-die @ 4200CL16 + 4650G: 9022



QuietBob said:


> With a view to the coming heatwaves, I've been tinkering with my CPU. 11w output in Cinebench R23 and still feels adequate for typical home use. Curiously, lowering V_soc didn't seem to affect its power draw.
> 
> Now I'm ready for those 30c ambients



What VSOC are you running? You might be able to shave off about 1-2W every 50mV lower VSOC, but Matisse/Vermeer I/O die has a pretty high base power draw. It's a pretty big chip.


----------



## QuietBob (May 10, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> What VSOC are you running? You might be able to shave off about 1-2W every 50mV lower


I'm at 1.1v, which I believe was set by the XMP profile. There was virtually zero difference in SOC power between 1.1 and 0.95v as observed in R23. I set both SOC and VDDG to the same value. Perhaps a memory benchmark would show some gains?


----------



## tabascosauz (May 16, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Ryzen 5000 seems to keep getting better. Now I'm on negative 30 all cores with the curve optimizer and haven't had any errors for seven days. I tried the same settings a few months ago and it made the system hard reset after a few days of use.



I'm pretty curious about this, -30 on all 6 cores should be an outstanding result if reddit is to be believed - what did you test the UV with? Your comment reminded me to finally get around to using Curve Optimizer. The settings today seemed okay through two runs of corecycler (~2h30m) and some other heavy loads I threw at it. 

Stock 142/95/140 limits, +0MHz override, 1x scalar, -10/10/12/12/12/12/15/15/15/15/15/15
Wanted to cut down temps on Core 0 more (temp-wise a bit of a problem child on this chip), but it wouldn't take even one step lower than -10 without failing corecycler. Any temp improvements are welcome on this cooler that performs somewhere between U12S and U12A.

Got snapshot polling enabled here, so core clock = effective clock, two birds w/ one stone. Funny how Windows always prefers Core 7 for background tasks 99.9% of the time? It's the worst core and it shows. Maybe that's not a bad thing, the chip and scheduler are much happier together now than they were in 2019.


----------



## INSTG8R (May 16, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I'm pretty curious about this, -30 on all 6 cores should be an outstanding result if reddit is to be believed - what did you test the UV with? Your comment reminded me to finally get around to using Curve Optimizer. The settings today seemed okay through two runs of corecycler (~2h30m) and some other heavy loads I threw at it.
> 
> Stock 142/95/140 limits, +0MHz override, 1x scalar, -10/10/12/12/12/12/15/15/15/15/15/15
> Wanted to cut down temps on Core 0 more (temp-wise a bit of a problem child on this chip), but it wouldn't take even one step lower than -10 without failing corecycler. Any temp improvements are welcome on this cooler that performs somewhere between U12S and U12A.
> ...


I agree! I’m running-15 all core that gets me 1.40 max voltage so using that to do the math…I don’t like that it’s arbitrary numbers vs my usual concrete negative offsets of the past I’d like to try -20 but even that seems a little too extreme despite it probably ending up around 1.35 which was my previous offset target on my previous 3700X


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 16, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I'm pretty curious about this, -30 on all 6 cores should be an outstanding result if reddit is to be believed - what did you test the UV with? Your comment reminded me to finally get around to using Curve Optimizer. The settings today seemed okay through two runs of corecycler (~2h30m) and some other heavy loads I threw at it.
> 
> Stock 142/95/140 limits, +0MHz override, 1x scalar, -10/10/12/12/12/12/15/15/15/15/15/15
> Wanted to cut down temps on Core 0 more (temp-wise a bit of a problem child on this chip), but it wouldn't take even one step lower than -10 without failing corecycler. Any temp improvements are welcome on this cooler that performs somewhere between U12S and U12A.
> ...



It's been perfectly stable for almost three weeks now, but some of the cores don't like Prime95. I ran CoreCycler for three hours and cores 1 and 5 failed. I'll try dialling them back a bit to see where their limits are.

UPDATE: I had to tweak cores 0, 1 and 5 down to negative 25, the others are still on negative 30. Now it runs Prime95 for hours with no issues.


----------



## toilet pepper (May 17, 2021)

From what I read in reddit and my experience as well, p95 might seem stable when dealing with Curve Optimizer but in reality it really isn't. 

I've had mine pass p95 for hours but simply crash on random low workloads. I wish there was a simpler way to tell which of the cores are bad to make tuning these easier.


----------



## freeagent (May 17, 2021)

toilet pepper said:


> I've had mine pass p95 for hours but simply crash on random low workloads.


This is the main reason why I stopped using that program years ago.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 17, 2021)

toilet pepper said:


> From what I read in reddit and my experience as well, p95 might seem stable when dealing with Curve Optimizer but in reality it really isn't.
> 
> I've had mine pass p95 for hours but simply crash on random low workloads. I wish there was a simpler way to tell which of the cores are bad to make tuning these easier.



I noticed the same thing in the earlier months. I would run Prime95 with no issues and then crash when I'm watching Youtube or something. The strange thing is that those crashes are gone, but the cores have also changed in their worker failure behavior. E.g. Core 0 used to be perfectly fine at negative 30 and Core 5 wouldn't tolerate anything above 20. My best guess is that using a better thermal paste or BIOS version has changed my results somehow.


----------



## tabascosauz (May 17, 2021)

Kinda crazy how much curve optimizer can accomplish even with PBO completely disabled. The MT score is intentionally 142W-limited, and still improved. The previously higher ST score in the R23 thread is 1635 on a 360mm custom loop, didn't think I could beat that on a 140mm downdraft cooler lol. Last I heard there are some crazy people out there managing 1700+ on more exotic cooling.........

 



toilet pepper said:


> From what I read in reddit and my experience as well, p95 might seem stable when dealing with Curve Optimizer but in reality it really isn't.





PooPipeBoy said:


> I noticed the same thing in the earlier months. I would run Prime95 with no issues and then crash when I'm watching Youtube or something. The strange thing is that those crashes are gone, but the cores have also changed in their worker failure behavior. E.g. Core 0 used to be perfectly fine at negative 30 and Core 5 wouldn't tolerate anything above 20. My best guess is that using a better thermal paste or BIOS version has changed my results somehow.



Y'all running vanilla P95 or using it indirectly through a per-core testing script? Vanilla AVX P95 is pretty bad at just about everything.

On the other hand per-core scripts running SSE P95 seem to be the best fit for curve optimizer; the SSE test basically maxes out clocks and the boost algorithm generally applies pretty hefty offsets for AVX so it should be unlikely that settings are consistently stable in the script but not elsewhere.

The thermal paste probably made no difference but it's definitely possible for Vcore behaviour to change with a new BIOS.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 17, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Kinda crazy how much curve optimizer can accomplish even with PBO completely disabled. The MT score is intentionally 142W-limited, and still improved. The previously higher ST score in the R23 thread is 1635 on a 360mm custom loop, didn't think I could beat that on a 140mm downdraft cooler lol. Last I heard there are some crazy people out there managing 1700+ on more exotic cooling.........
> 
> View attachment 200704 View attachment 200701
> 
> ...



Yeah I was running CoreCycler before and after, plus some regular Prime95. After the adjustments I was getting up to Iteration 7 until I ended the program with no errors.


----------



## toilet pepper (May 18, 2021)

From what I can tell, core cycler is using p95 as well. I just test using CB20 and usually my rig restarts when some settings are too aggressive. I could tune some more but at this point its more trouble than what its worth. My 3080 is around 20 inches from the AIO I'm using inside the NR200p.


----------



## tabascosauz (May 18, 2021)

toilet pepper said:


> From what I can tell, core cycler is using p95 as well. I just test using CB20 and usually my rig restarts when some settings are too aggressive. I could tune some more but at this point its more trouble than what its worth. My 3080 is around 20 inches from the AIO I'm using inside the NR200p.



Unless you're manually configuring P95 to run a non-AVX instance on one specific core at a time, which is what corecycler does, it doesn't quite "use" P95.

The point is that P95 is a decent stress test.........just not in its default form, where it just runs useless AVX all-core, which proves nothing because the boost algorithm recognizes it's AVX P95 and slashes clocks. To test per-core stability, you need to max out the boost clock to the limit on that specific core, hence running no-AVX P95 and running only on 1 core at a time. Running AVX and using more cores are both things that reduce clocks, which is pointless when verifying individual core stability.

Cinebench is terrible for stability testing. It's great for some quick performance numbers or showing off scores, but it will not do anything for you if daily stability is what you're after. And the ST test will only ever run on your preferred 2 cores.



PooPipeBoy said:


> Yeah I was running CoreCycler before and after, plus some regular Prime95. After the adjustments I was getting up to Iteration 7 until I ended the program with no errors.



Made me think I was doing something wrong to barely finish Iteration 2 after 3 hours, then I realized you have half the number of cores, that's probably why


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 18, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Made me think I was doing something wrong to barely finish Iteration 2 after 3 hours, then I realized you have half the number of cores, that's probably why



Half the number of cores AND a 200MHz lower maximum boost clock lol

I still wonder why AMD went with higher clocks on the high core count SKUs. A reduced core count always helps with high clocking ability.


----------



## GoldenX (May 20, 2021)

Stock on the Ryzen APUs is zero right now here, and I was begged to give mine so an audio/video editor student could start.
So I'm getting a 5600X


----------



## freeagent (May 24, 2021)

So.. I am looking to upgrade my 5600x..   

I was going to put it in my kids machine instead of the 3600XT..

I was considering the 5800X because I like the price, when you compare it to the 5900X.. which is in my cart right now on Amazon.ca because its about 110 cheaper than Memory Express.. but its still 800 bucks. I have never spent that much on a CPU.. So holy shit. But I want everything. I want the boost, I want the memory performance.. I don't want the price though! I might sell off some older hardware to help pay it off. And I probably wont be moving to AM5 or whatever it will be called until later in its life cycle.

I could use the horsepower for some video stuff too, but I don't do much right now, and its not professional in the slightest.


----------



## toilet pepper (May 24, 2021)

freeagent said:


> So.. I am looking to upgrade my 5600x..
> 
> I was going to put it in my kids machine instead of the 3600XT..
> 
> ...


The 5800x is $800CAD!??! And I thought prices in my country were always insane.


----------



## freeagent (May 24, 2021)

toilet pepper said:


> The 5800x is $800CAD!??! And I thought prices in my country were always insane.


No the 5900X is 790ish and the 5800X is roughly 600.

I'm probably going to go with the 5900, I will buy something when I get home..


----------



## toilet pepper (May 24, 2021)

That's roughly the same price here. You already have the 5600x might as well double your core count and get the 5900x. I have the 5800x and it is a pain to cool.


----------



## tabascosauz (May 24, 2021)

freeagent said:


> So.. I am looking to upgrade my 5600x..
> 
> I was going to put it in my kids machine instead of the 3600XT..
> 
> ...



Are we looking at the sane product pages? 5800X is $569 and 5900X is $769 (same price I paid 4 months ago) at ME. 

Both with crazy amounts of availability. I'm surprised that AMD slipped the 5800X price cuts under the radar and no one noticed, it's still a bit more expensive than the 11700K but the boards aren't nearly as expensive. That said the 11700 is still like $100 cheaper. At launch the 5800X was like $639, I took one look, laughed, and put the 5900X in my cart.


----------



## freeagent (May 25, 2021)

I was going to get the 5900X from Amazon it was the cheapest, and would have had 1 day shipping. I just got home and went to buy it and it went up a hundred bucks. I went back to memory express and put it back in my cart wanted to pick it up in store, but they aren't doing that here because the virus is bad. I would have been 885.48 delivered from M.E. On a whim I checked back into Newegg and they had it in stock, not the third party seller.. so I bought one from their newest batch for 808 delivered.

She doesn't know yet tee hee..

I'm gonna be in trouble if I get caught lol.. Might just flip my 5600X and 3600XT to save some bacon..


----------



## tabascosauz (May 25, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I was going to get the 5900X from Amazon it was the cheapest, and would have had 1 day shipping. I just got home and went to buy it and it went up a hundred bucks. I went back to memory express and put it back in my cart wanted to pick it up in store, but they aren't doing that here because the virus is bad. I would have been 885.48 delivered from M.E. On a whim I checked back into Newegg and they had it in stock, not the third party seller.. so I bought one from their newest batch for 808 delivered.
> 
> She doesn't know yet tee hee..
> 
> I'm gonna be in trouble if I get caught lol.. Might just flip my 5600X and 3600XT to save some bacon..



boys gotta be boys sometimes hon,  just have to accept it
i think i deserve a little present to myself for surviving the virus
i didn't change anything, it's still a Ryzen? you sure you didn't just buy a purse and forget about it


I hope you get a gold chip but I'd caution against expecting all-core OC on air or 2000+ IF, not a 2CCD's strong suit. I really think you should keep the 5600X around, never let go of a unicorn like that


----------



## freeagent (May 25, 2021)

You are absolutely right man! Ok yes.. I did just build a computer last November.. but outside of that I have not bought myself anything since we started our family like 9 years ago.. I footed the bill for everything, I am still paying  Now she is working so it is helpful 

I hope I get a good one too.. I had a good feeling when I bought the 5600X, I didn't get it when I was going to buy a 5800X, but I got that feeling today when I saw they were back in stock at Newegg, rather than 3rd party hax. 2K is probably unrealistic.. which is... this is hard to say.. ok.. because I only have 3200C14 

Yeah I don't think I will get rid of the 5600X, she's my other baby. Such a wicked CPU. Only reason I considered the 5800X is because guys were hitting 2K with it.. whatever. Its just a number.. 

I would still be ok with 1900.. wold be groovy if it would do that no muss no fuss.. but probably not going to happen like that. My 5600X doesnt like pushing 4 sticks as much as my XT does, which is weird.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 25, 2021)

freeagent said:


> You are absolutely right man! Ok yes.. I did just build a computer last November.. but outside of that I have not bought myself anything since we started our family like 9 years ago.. I footed the bill for everything, I am still paying  Now she is working so it is helpful
> 
> I hope I get a good one too.. I had a good feeling when I bought the 5600X, I didn't get it when I was going to buy a 5800X, but I got that feeling today when I saw they were back in stock at Newegg, rather than 3rd party hax. 2K is probably unrealistic.. which is... this is hard to say.. ok.. because I only have 3200C14
> 
> ...



yep, its just a number. same as me lately. on my 5600x i changed the paste from mx-4 to mx-5 cause i was just bored.  regrets. lost 2 celsius across the board, everything else the same including ambient.

very frustrating... should have just left it alone... LOL


----------



## freeagent (May 25, 2021)

I saw that man, that’s a bummer. My cooler came with TF7, it’s pretty good! Might be cheap too? If you have a few bucks you should check it out!

I do have to say I am a little nervous when it comes to cooling..

I talk a lot of shit when it comes to AIO’s. And I put Thermalright on this magical platform because I have been smoking a ton of weed over the last 6 months. I sure hope their coolers are as good as I keep saying they are.. because summer is pretty much here now.. find out in a few days I reckon..


----------



## tabascosauz (May 25, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I hope I get a good one too.. I had a good feeling when I bought the 5600X, I didn't get it when I was going to buy a 5800X, but I got that feeling today when I saw they were back in stock at Newegg, rather than 3rd party hax. 2K is probably unrealistic.. which is... this is hard to say.. ok.. because I only have 3200C14
> 
> Yeah I don't think I will get rid of the 5600X, she's my other baby. Such a wicked CPU. Only reason I considered the 5800X is because guys were hitting 2K with it.. whatever. Its just a number..
> 
> I would still be ok with 1900.. wold be groovy if it would do that no muss no fuss.. but probably not going to happen like that. My 5600X doesnt like pushing 4 sticks as much as my XT does, which is weird.



I'm sure chances are pretty good to hit 2000 on 2x8GB but not sure about 4x8GB. Seen quite a few 1:1 4000+ 2CCD validations but not really sure what they're running.

Wouldn't be worried about 5900X cooling at stock at least, if I can do it then you definitely can. Unlimited PBO is a bit tougher. But I do wish you had some of the same games, we could do some HWInfo temp logging and compare data. The CCD temp behaviour in MW is rather baffling:




I repasted with NT-H1 yesterday, it improves all round temps very slightly, but the spikes are unaffected (understandably).



freeagent said:


> I have been smoking a ton of weed over the last 6 months.


----------



## freeagent (May 25, 2021)

What games? I have a couple hundred.. ish..

I am ok with 2x8.. I just like to tinker with 4.

Unlimited pbo? Really?

Neat


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 25, 2021)

I thought my computer crashed but it was actually just a power station blowing up. What a relief.


----------



## tabascosauz (May 25, 2021)

freeagent said:


> What games? I have a couple hundred.. ish..
> 
> I am ok with 2x8.. I just like to tinker with 4.
> 
> ...



Just Modern Warfare 2019, the only one in which CCD1 has been behaving like that. If you play either multiplayer or Warzone it should work. Same two-core load in other games just look like below (CCD1 yellow line), much more consistent and what you'd expect. Load on Cores 0/1 consistent, clocks close to maxed out, CCD1 reasonably consistent.



Haven't got much other data at the moment. Hard to find other games that load the CPU like MW. Might just have to accept that MW is a hot n fucky game  I expected the lower clocks and similar temps due to AVX, but not the natural cave formations-looking temp profile

On the RAM, I totally get the allure of running 2x8 to get the e-peen numbers   but single rank actually does penalize performance I think? If some bandwidth benchmarks are to be believed I think you have to make up roughly 200-300MT/s on 2x8 to catch up to 2x16 on bandwidth and gaming? I think.


----------



## Caring1 (May 25, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> I thought my computer crashed but it was actually just a power station blowing up. What a relief.


Thank goodness it was only a coal fired station.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 25, 2021)

Caring1 said:


> Thank goodness it was only a coal fired station.



Yeah there's no nuclear power at all in the whole of Australia, I think they're avoiding it because nobody can be bothered to figure that shit out.


----------



## Mussels (May 25, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Yeah there's no nuclear power at all in the whole of Australia, I think they're avoiding it because nobody can be bothered to figure that shit out.


The emus wont let us technologically progress


----------



## RealKGB (May 25, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> I thought my computer crashed but it was actually just a power station blowing up. What a relief.


Kinda the same lol
I was running Minecraft about 3 weeks ago and suddenly my computer shuts off. I was testing out a 1V undervolt on my Ryzen 5 3600 @ stock (later reverted, it was stable under Cinebench but running BOINC gave me weirdness with crashing, over the summer I'll do testing), so I thought it might be that causing shutoffs, but then I noticed that all my other things (sound system, monitors, Mac mini, P3 PC, etc.) were off too.
The room light turning off usually gives it away, but it wasn't on because there was no need for it at that time.

Turns out a storm nearby knocked out a few power lines. Took them 3 hours to get the one for our area back up. For most of the time we had to deal with the beeping of the UPS because it _just kept beeping_.

Side note, the UPS has our router and my Minecraft server hooked up to it.
But we forgot to hook up our modem, so the UPS did nothing. That's a project for this summer (I think my dad plans to just run the coax cable up to the office, but I'm not sure).


----------



## freeagent (May 25, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Just Modern Warfare 2019, the only one in which CCD1 has been behaving like that. If you play either multiplayer or Warzone it should work. Same two-core load in other games just look like below (CCD1 yellow line), much more consistent and what you'd expect. Load on Cores 0/1 consistent, clocks close to maxed out, CCD1 reasonably consistent.
> 
> View attachment 201523View attachment 201521
> 
> ...


You can make up most of the difference, but you really have to lean on the system to do it. The performance of 4x8 is noticeable.. I was constantly bouncing back and forth between 2 and 4 sticks.

I do own that game too, I haven't played it for years


----------



## Caring1 (May 25, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Yeah there's no nuclear power at all in the whole of Australia, I think they're avoiding it because nobody can be bothered to figure that shit out.


Not since Lucas Heights and some minor incidents there, which was decommissioned and nuclear research facilities constructed.








						OPAL | Opal multi-purpose reactor | ANSTO
					

The Open-pool Australian lightwater reactor (OPAL) functions as a neutron factory, producing radioisotopes for cancer detection and treatment, and neutron beams for fundamental materials research.




					www.ansto.gov.au


----------



## toilet pepper (May 25, 2021)

freeagent said:


> You can make up most of the difference, but you really have to lean on the system to do it. The performance of 4x8 is noticeable.. I was constantly bouncing back and forth between 2 and 4 sticks.
> 
> I do own that game too, I haven't played it for years


How's Thermalright for Ryzen? I'm planning on getting one as the PA120 might fit the NR200.


----------



## tabascosauz (May 25, 2021)

freeagent said:


> You can make up most of the difference, but you really have to lean on the system to do it. The performance of 4x8 is noticeable.. I was constantly bouncing back and forth between 2 and 4 sticks.
> 
> I do own that game too, I haven't played it for years



No no not COD4 or its remastered version. The reboot, Modern Warfare 2019, that also hosts Warzone as a separate mode. I'd be HELLA concerned if COD4 hit 85C on my CPU lol


----------



## freeagent (May 25, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> No no not COD4 or its remastered version. The reboot, Modern Warfare 2019, that also hosts Warzone as a separate mode. I'd be HELLA concerned if COD4 hit 85C on my CPU lol


OH.. whoops.. nope don't have that one.. sounds interesting.. hm.



toilet pepper said:


> How's Thermalright for Ryzen? I'm planning on getting one as the PA120 might fit the NR200.


Its awesome man! I love it! Better than my Le Grand Macho RT and True Spirit 140 Power on this CPU. I have a 5900X coming this week hopefully.. that should be a good test.

I was looking at that PA120, its sweet man. I would get one but I have many coolers now..


----------



## toilet pepper (May 26, 2021)

I just tried 1usmus' Ryzen CTR 2.1 RC5. I have no idea what blackmagicf***** he did with it but it is amazing. I get better results in CB20 and better temps than the manual tuning I did for several days. It managed to have lower voltages and sustained effective clock casuing the high scores. "Downside" is it manages to do that with lower "clocks" so you don't see that special core "boosting" to 4.9 or 4.85GHz.

It also has a boost tester to check which are your best and worst cores with their voltage/wattage if you still want to go with the PBO/CO route.


----------



## freeagent (May 29, 2021)

Does anyone know anything about the new AGESA update? I noticed a new beta bios was posted to the Asus site today but was dated for yesterday.. I know this because I check their site everyday.. I will leave that at that.. who does that anyways lol..

Anyways.. I installed their last beta the day it came out, and it was dated for the day before as usual.. I know this because see above..

Just curious about the update.. because it seems every update I make is to another beta..

ROG STRIX B550-F GAMING BIOS 2401
"1. Update AMD AM4 AGESA V2 PI 1.2.0.3 Patch A
2. Improve system stability


----------



## Mussels (May 29, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Does anyone know anything about the new AGESA update? I noticed a new beta bios was posted to the Asus site today but was dated for yesterday.. I know this because I check their site everyday.. I will leave that at that.. who does that anyways lol..
> 
> Anyways.. I installed their last beta the day it came out, and it was dated for the day before as usual.. I know this because see above..
> 
> ...


damn, i checked yesterday so this is new new - anyone else know whats in that agesa?


----------



## Space Lynx (May 29, 2021)

Mussels said:


> damn, i checked yesterday so this is new new - anyone else know whats in that agesa?



my x570 tomahawk doesnt have it listed yet... i want to know this too... nom nom


----------



## toilet pepper (May 29, 2021)

Mussels said:


> damn, i checked yesterday so this is new new - anyone else know whats in that agesa?


I think this was supposed to be the fix for the usb issues.


----------



## freeagent (May 29, 2021)

toilet pepper said:


> I think this was supposed to be the fix for the usb issues.


They did that an update or two ago, but you never know.. I haven’t installed it yet.

I also didn’t have USB issues, maybe because my stuff is gen 3?


----------



## Athlonite (May 29, 2021)

freeagent said:


> They did that an update or two ago, but you never know.. I haven’t installed it yet.
> 
> I also didn’t have USB issues, maybe because my stuff is gen 3?


yeah it fixed it for some peoples issues but not everyone's so that's probably what this is and  probably also better stability for greater than 2000MHz memory / fabric speeds


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Jun 2, 2021)

Hey hey my peeps. I have a curiosity to share with y'all. So a few days ago, I was playing around with my AIO mounting (finally got it situated just the way I wanted it!) while slapping on the two ARCTIC P12 PWM PST ARGB fans I got for it (I love these things) and after all that was said and done, I fired my rig back up and noticed something odd -- or maybe it's just me -- with the VRM heatsink portion of my board. 



 

All those little vein thingies around the ASROCK logo...A. is it supposed to be like that and B. If not, could it be a defect or something?


----------



## Mussels (Jun 2, 2021)

you probs left a plastic sheet on there and never removed it


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## Gmr_Chick (Jun 2, 2021)

Mussels said:


> you probs left a plastic sheet on there and never removed it



Had the usual plastic on it, but I made sure to peel it off.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 2, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Had the usual plastic on it, but I made sure to peel it off.


then either its coming loose from underneath, or you left almost enough blood to awaken it


----------



## freeagent (Jun 2, 2021)

I think maybe that's supposed to be ASROCK Busting out?

Edit:

Like rawr?


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Jun 2, 2021)

In all seriousness, should I take the top cover off and see what's going on, leave it be, or RMA as a last resort?


----------



## freeagent (Jun 2, 2021)

I would just leave it be.. but to me it looks normal? But I don't know what normal looks like..

I think I have my daily settings hammered out.. I'm sure stock is fine too.. 

Haven't run it yet.. First boot as fast as she goes lol..

So when running PBO +200 -30 I noticed a CCD was getting hammered pretty hard. In the end I saw 13c difference between the two. It wasn't completely stable that high, but +150 -30 is working good with no crashing or unexpected behavior so far. Single core up to 5100.. I bet the new gen will do x55 no problem.. maybe.


----------



## wolf (Jun 2, 2021)

Got my hands on a 5900X finally, only 225 days after ordering!

My Noctua NH-L12 can't really keep up with it with stock power limits, so it's currently a smidge above ECO modes 87w max, sitting limited to 95w. Temps are well in check now, gaming seems totally unaffected, only all-core loads are lower @ about 3.5ghz.

Any good guides to follow to tune up PBO2 per core curve optimiser? will this work in conjunction with the power limit and claw back some speed? is it worth it? or should I be putting a better cooler on so I can let it run at 142w+ and then try PBO2?

Will the 1usmus Ryzen clock tuner work with the power limit set so low? I also forget where to even go to see if I got a bronze/silver/gold etc sample, and will that be affected by my power limiting?

Any advice on getting the most out of it without spending extra money appreciated!


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 2, 2021)

wolf said:


> Got my hands on a 5900X finally, only 225 days after ordering!
> 
> My Noctua NH-L12 can't really keep up with it with stock power limits, so it's currently a smidge above ECO modes 87w max, sitting limited to 95w. Temps are well in check now, gaming seems totally unaffected, only all-core loads are lower @ about 3.5ghz.
> 
> ...




i know it seems obvious but sometimes people do forget.  increase fan curves in mobo bios for entire system just a slightly more aggressive curve than stock can do wonders.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 2, 2021)

wolf said:


> Got my hands on a 5900X finally, only 225 days after ordering!
> 
> My Noctua NH-L12 can't really keep up with it with stock power limits, so it's currently a smidge above ECO modes 87w max, sitting limited to 95w. Temps are well in check now, gaming seems totally unaffected, only all-core loads are lower @ about 3.5ghz.
> 
> ...



Congrats! Not too sure about CTR, if you run all-core on the L12S I suspect you're looking at just 4.0GHz or so to keep thermals in check.

Based on my experience with the 5900X+C14S in the Cerberus and someone I know with a 5900X+L12S in the Ghost S1, you're probably better off selling the L12S and getting either a C14S or U12A. Which one is better depends on how you want to set up your NR200 and how important GPU thermals are to you.

You've got plenty of clearance so unless you just can't spare the money, not much reason to take the Fuma 2 over the U12A.

But basically the consensus is that the L12S isn't really enough for the 5900X. It's not really the CPU's fault either, it wasn't exactly sufficient for a 3900X either. Only thing that changed was that the 5000s make more aggressive use of the thermal envelope they're allowed to use (90C) so it feels like they run hotter.










Curve Optimizer doesn't seem to reduce temps much or at all, it's more to move the V-F curve to get more clock out of the same Vcore. Anyways, there's a Curve Optimizer thread on TPU:









						AMD Curve Optimizer any guides / experience
					

I'm testing my curve optimizer undervolts with CoreCycler, and it turns out my new 5600x's Core 1 returns rounding errors even with no offset (negative offset set to 0). Does this mean this core is defective (and if so, is it worth it to activate my warranty just for this)? Or should I attempt...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




I'm running -10 on my two priority cores, -12 on the other CCD1 cores, and -15 on the rest. It's not too hard to work out, just test with the corecycler script for a couple of iterations. That's the limit of the 2 top cores, but the rest of the corws I haven't gone to see what the limit is.









						GitHub - sp00n/corecycler: Stability test script for PBO & Curve Optimizer stability testing on AMD Ryzen processors
					

Stability test script for PBO & Curve Optimizer stability testing on AMD Ryzen processors - GitHub - sp00n/corecycler: Stability test script for PBO & Curve Optimizer stability testing on A...




					github.com


----------



## Final_Fighter (Jun 2, 2021)

wolf said:


> Got my hands on a 5900X finally, only 225 days after ordering!
> 
> My Noctua NH-L12 can't really keep up with it with stock power limits, so it's currently a smidge above ECO modes 87w max, sitting limited to 95w. Temps are well in check now, gaming seems totally unaffected, only all-core loads are lower @ about 3.5ghz.
> 
> ...


225 days!! holly... i just ran into a best buy that had a bunch of them in stock, along with the 5800 and 5600. looks like stock is almost back to normal.


----------



## wolf (Jun 2, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> i know it seems obvious but sometimes people do forget.  increase fan curves in mobo bios for entire system just a slightly more aggressive curve than stock can do wonders.


Yeah I run Argus with custom fan curves, mostly because with the de-shrouded card, the case fans cool it so I needed case fans to run their curve based on GPU temp, so I already made the CPU curve quite agressive.


tabascosauz said:


> Congrats! Not too sure about CTR, if you run all-core on the L12S I suspect you're looking at just 4.0GHz or so to keep thermals in check.
> 
> Based on my experience with the 5900X+C14S in the Cerberus and someone I know with a 5900X+L12S in the Ghost S1, you're probably better off selling the L12S and getting either a C14S or U12A. Which one is better depends on how you want to set up your NR200 and how important GPU thermals are to you.
> 
> ...


Cheers for this! all-core doesn't phase me too-too much, even @ 3.5ghz this will still be significantly faster in my video editing loads than my 3700X which topped at 3.9-4ghz all core. If I get a better cooler, however, I will aim to push that higher.

My main focus is game performance, which seems unaffected by lowering the wattage the CPU can draw, but I would be all about trying to squeeze more out of it still, would you say optimising the curve will help allow individual cores to boost higher/long etc within the power envelope I've established?


Final_Fighter said:


> 225 days!! holly... i just ran into a best buy that had a bunch of them in stock, along with the 5800 and 5600. looks like stock is almost back to normal.


Yeah mine was a day 3 order from a local store here in Aus, so right around filling all the day 1 orders the next batch covered me and now the store is in surplus, along with the 5800X and 5600X tho, albeit at what I'd call inflated pricing still.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 2, 2021)

wolf said:


> Yeah I run Argus with custom fan curves, mostly because with the de-shrouded card, the case fans cool it so I needed case fans to run their curve based on GPU temp, so I already made the CPU curve quite agressive.
> 
> Cheers for this! all-core doesn't phase me too-too much, even @ 3.5ghz this will still be significantly faster in my video editing loads than my 3700X which topped at 3.9-4ghz all core. If I get a better cooler, however, I will aim to push that higher.
> 
> ...



You definitely should use Curve Optimizer, it's pretty much free performance at no drawback except time spent in stability testing. I run -10 on my best 2 cores and see about up to ~100MHz better effective clocks on the regular, at same power and same temps. What's the core ranking order on your chip?

95W PPT should be good for most games, I can think of a handful of games that max out two cores though and probably draw 100W or just north of that. Might affect clocks a little bit, but nothing too much and again it depends on what you play. On these 2CCD chips there seems to be about 15W of power that just disappears into a black hole (probably estimates from some minor rails), not showing up in the cores or SOC domains but still part of package power draw.

Go in increments on 5 (negative offset) and test at every step until the corecycler script tells you which core fails first (probably will be one of your good CCD1 cores), then leave that core there and keep going on the others. Best to run at least 2 iterations (each iteration cycling through all the cores once) to determine whether a specific setting is stable. 

But yeah, definitely compared to an 8-core MT perf will be stronger (I had the same 3700X>5900X upgrade), but defs consider a better cooler since you will have no trouble fitting one. Honestly, all-core temps aren't bad at all at the stock 142W PPT (70-75C on air), 2-6 core gaming loads get quite a bit hotter.


----------



## wolf (Jun 2, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> You definitely should use Curve Optimizer, it's pretty much free performance at no drawback except time spent in stability testing. I run -10 on my best 2 cores and see about up to ~100MHz better effective clocks on the regular, at same power and same temps. What's the core ranking order on your chip?


The core ranking I believe is in Ryzen Master? If so it shows;

Core 3 and 8 with a gold star
Core 1 and 11 with a silver circle
All the rest ..n ormal?



tabascosauz said:


> 95W PPT should be good for most games, I can think of a handful of games that max out two cores though and probably draw 100W or just north of that. Might affect clocks a little bit, but nothing too much and again it depends on what you play. On these 2CCD chips there seems to be about 15W of power that just disappears into a black hole (probably estimates from some minor rails), not showing up in the cores or SOC domains but still part of package power draw.


I could probably stretch this cooler to 105w quite easily, maybe even ~120w and it'll still cope.


tabascosauz said:


> Go in increments on 5 (negative offset) and test at every step until the corecycler script tells you which core fails first (probably will be one of your good CCD1 cores), then leave that core there and keep going on the others. Best to run at least 2 iterations (each iteration cycling through all the cores once) to determine whether a specific setting is stable.
> 
> But yeah, definitely compared to an 8-core MT perf will be stronger (I had the same 3700X>5900X upgrade), but defs consider a better cooler since you will have no trouble fitting one. Honestly, all-core temps aren't bad at all at the stock 142W PPT (70-75C on air), 2-6 core gaming loads get quite a bit hotter.


Cool I'll look into that cheers! and indeed with the temps, they seem much more directly linked to voltage rather than power draw.

All 12 cores loaded @ 3.5 GHz ~1.02v @ 95w flat is ~65-70c
One/two cores loaded @ 4.7 - 4.95GHz ~ 1.48v @ 95w is 70c+


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 2, 2021)

wolf said:


> The core ranking I believe is in Ryzen Master? If so it shows;
> 
> Core 3 and 8 with a gold star
> Core 1 and 11 with a silver circle
> All the rest ..n ormal?



HWInfo shows you the complete CPPC/hardware order. Ryzen Master just identifies the best 2 cores in each CCX - not very useful since CCD2 is usually lower quality.





wolf said:


> I could probably stretch this cooler to 105w quite easily, maybe even ~120w and it'll still cope.
> 
> Cool I'll look into that cheers! and indeed with the temps, they seem much more directly linked to voltage rather than power draw.
> 
> ...



I actually thought the L12S would be a little bit cooler. I had one for a little bit, it's a great performer on a 65W chip and probably on par or better than the U9S, and the U9S was used by a few SFF people on 3900X with relatively reasonable temps. But that other 5900X+L12S owner I mentioned couldn't run his chip without throttling, without resorting to eco mode, so that put it into perspective for me.

I hit about the same 60-80ish temps in heavy 1/2-core loads depending on game, seems to just be by design. I'm still logging and looking at the temp data. If you're just looking for the minimum 142W+CO performance maybe a U12S or U12S Redux could even manage? My C14S should be around there in performance, but with the airflow setup I have and the fan it's probably closer to the U14S right now.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 2, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> HWInfo shows you the complete CPPC/hardware order. Ryzen Master just identifies the best 2 cores in each CCX - not very useful since CCD2 is usually lower quality.
> 
> View attachment 202513
> 
> ...


Which game makes your CPU hit 60-80? Just curious.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 2, 2021)

Final_Fighter said:


> 225 days!! holly... i just ran into a best buy that had a bunch of them in stock, along with the 5800 and 5600. looks like stock is almost back to normal.



I think things are coming back to normal yeah, I have had my rx 6800 and 5600x rig on sale for tpu for a few days now. no offers. i guess i was a little too late in selling. oh well. i can just keep it if worst comes to worst. im not willing to take a loss over what i paid


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 2, 2021)

ratirt said:


> Which game makes your CPU hit 60-80? Just curious.



The same MW19 and Genshin Impact I've been babbling on about too much lately    unfortunately, turns out none of the other games I have actually work the CPU much at all, so it's just these two that hit CCD1 this hard.

MW19 hits 2 cores with AVX, resulting in the unpredictable fast spikes in temp between 60-80C. Genshin loads one core moderately (4.3-4.7) most of the time at about 50-70C, unless loading in or loading into a coop world where it'll actually max out two cores (4.7-4.9) for about 90 seconds precisely, steady at 75-78C for that duration.

I heard BFV also is similar to MW19 on Ryzen 5000 thanks to AVX, but I don't have the game. Others on forums running even bigger air coolers (DRP4, D15) corroborate almost the same temps and behaviour in MW19 but no one has chimed in here yet.

I can't replicate any of this outside of games in any benchmarks.

The most telling part is that max fan speed, an obnoxious 2000rpm on mine, makes zero difference to the MW19 temp behaviour, even though max fan speed lowers 2-3C in every synthetic benchmark.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 2, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> The same MW19 and Genshin Impact I've been babbling on about too much lately    unfortunately, turns out none of the other games I have actually work the CPU much at all, so it's just these two that hit CCD1 this hard.
> 
> MW19 hits 2 cores with AVX, resulting in the unpredictable fast spikes in temp between 60-80C. Genshin loads one core moderately (4.3-4.7) most of the time at about 50-70C, unless loading in or loading into a coop world where it'll actually max out two cores (4.7-4.9) for about 90 seconds precisely, steady at 75-78C for that duration.
> 
> ...


Just wanted to ask about the games but unfortunately, I don't own any of these you have pointed out. 
So far with the games I've tested the CPU, it has never shown a temperature above 55 degrees Celsius. 
I'll keep looking though.  
Need to try Horizon Zero Dawn since that might be more demanding title.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 2, 2021)

ratirt said:


> So far with the games I've tested the CPU, it has never shown a temperature above 55 degrees Celsius.
> I'll keep looking though.
> Need to try Horizon Zero Dawn since that might be more demanding title.



You do have an AIO right? Not magical, but water is certainly better at dealing with Ryzen heat density.

I mean, that is understandable. Most games won't be CPU-bound, and most games load 1 core. Anything else is like that. CSGO, Siege, War Thunder, ROR2, Minecraft (except with shaders), SE4, MCC, etc. 50-65C, perfectly logical. In ST benchmarks that max out 1 core, temps are steady around 60C, perfectly logical.

Genshin is only that way because the game is hardcoded to 60fps, GPU is basically idle.

And MW19 doesn't seem to care about "CPU-bound". Regardless of framecap, refresh rate, or whether the GPU is at 100%, makes zero difference to how CPU behaves. The behaviour doesn't really extend to Ryzen 3000.

Maybe someone will be able to do some HWInfo logging in BFV if they don't have COD.

The frustrating thing about games that don't have consistent 2-core load is that data from 1-core loads are impossible to plot. Ryzen constantly juggles single core load between the #1 and #2 ranked cores every few seconds, you can imagine what that load/freq/power/temp graph looks like.


----------



## freeagent (Jun 3, 2021)

Some interesting results with PBO off while using Curve Optimzer.. playing with it right now. I haven’t checked on how these are clocking because I wanted a surprise lol.. but if I were to guess it’s not a stellar example. So I kind of gave up on PBO +200 and a full negative 30. It will do 2K fclk 1:1 but no more and it gets a bit fussy. It will do 1900 1:1 with 4 sticks with ease.. so a little weird but I haven’t tested thoroughly because I have been trying to dial in clocks like a 5600. Only problem with that is it isn’t a 5600 and I can’t really treat it like one. So now I am testing stock clock range with a -30 curve and PBO on auto which I assume is off.. only thing left to do really is per core clocking which I am not sure I will do.. at least right now.

Outside of that it is a monster that doesn’t need to be clocked. She rips just fine @ all stock all around. Hit 99 with it once with an all core oc.. I don’t think it likes manual control at all if I’m honest. Oops.

The numbers in some of the Aida tests puts me as strong or stronger than threadrippers in those particular tests which is crazy to me. I see all of my old CPUs waaay down there lol.. like a speck with their puny numbers


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Jun 3, 2021)

Don't shoot the noob but, can someone help me learn how to use Ryzen Master? It's billed as being easy to use, even for beginners but...yeah, I'm lost. Doesn't help that my board's BIOS defaults the PPT, TDC and EDC values to max settings - 1000, 520, and 540 respectively. Basically, I want to do a nice little auto OC or enable PBO for a gaming profile (and keep the CPU at stock all other times) but I don't know where to start and what values to tweak. 

PS: try to explain it in simple terms, please. I'm smart, but not so much when it comes to PPT's and EDC's, lol


----------



## freeagent (Jun 3, 2021)

I am by no means a pro, I have only used it two or three times months ago.. but try putting it in game mode


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Jun 3, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I am by no means a pro, I have only used it two or three times months ago.. but try putting it in game mode


Same thing happens in Game Mode. All mentioned values in my post are pegged


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 3, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Only problem with that is it isn’t a 5600 and I can’t really treat it like one.



Told you  nevertheless, very impressive quality 5900X you've got



freeagent said:


> So now I am testing stock clock range with a -30 curve and PBO on auto which I assume is off.. only thing left to do really is per core clocking which I am not sure I will do.. at least right now.



As long as you have time to run the script and whatnot I think you'll be surprised how much performance out of per-core alone you can gain, without any extra heat or power draw
GitHub - sp00n/corecycler: Stability test script for PBO & Curve Optimizer stability testing on AMD Ryzen processors

It'll be quite obvious from the script output if a core doesn't like your settings


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 3, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Same thing happens in Game Mode. All mentioned values in my post are pegged



I find its best to just use Auto OC mode with Ryzen master, honestly its pretty good. and the gains you would get doing it manually are very minimal over what Auto OC achieves.


----------



## freeagent (Jun 3, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Told you  nevertheless, very impressive quality 5900X you've got
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks man! Ok I will play around with it when I get a chance, thanks for the link!

So it is a decent one? Ok I thought I was doing it wrong  Either way like I said it is an absolute beast, and it’s not that bad to cool either I thought it would have been worse. We had a couple of moments between us when things got really hot though. I thought maybe I hurt it after a 99c all core 4750MHz 1.45v R20 run.. oops. But I think she’s ok.. my 5600 hit 103 once for a sec and she still rips. Didn’t sell it btw.. I think you were right about her so she’s snapped up tight in her clamshell.

I just set PBO and all things related to it in the bios. You can achieve the same thing as Ryzen master but without doing it in windows..


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 3, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Don't shoot the noob but, can someone help me learn how to use Ryzen Master? It's billed as being easy to use, even for beginners but...yeah, I'm lost. Doesn't help that my board's BIOS defaults the PPT, TDC and EDC values to max settings - 1000, 520, and 540 respectively. Basically, I want to do a nice little auto OC or enable PBO for a gaming profile (and keep the CPU at stock all other times) but I don't know where to start and what values to tweak.
> 
> PS: try to explain it in simple terms, please. I'm smart, but not so much when it comes to PPT's and EDC's, lol



Honestly probably easier/safer/more consistent just to use the PBO menu in BIOS. ASRock BIOS should have a dedicated PBO menu on the main tweaker page right (not AMD OC menu)? Ryzen Master doesn't work that great sometimes, it said my absolute turd 3700X could do 4.3 all-core (which it clearly cannot) then its built-in questionable stress test purported to show that it was "stable" 

I had good results with experimenting with tightening just EDC on my 3700X. 90A stock, 83A was my PBO profile. I gave it a little extra PPT headroom so I think my final settings were 115W/60A/83A or something. ST and MT performance were both equivalent or better than all-out PBO. With an AIO you can probably crank it up to 2x scalar or more, but whether scalar higher than 1x is long-term safe is a bit contentious.

How's the chip quality? Can you manage say, all-core 4.3 or 4.4 @ 1.2V or so? If CTR says your sample is a silver or gold, 3600 stock clocks are low enough that it might be worth just going all-core in the 1.2V range, especially under AIO.



freeagent said:


> Thanks man! Ok I will play around with it when I get a chance, thanks for the link!
> 
> So it is a decent one? Ok I thought I was doing it wrong  Either way like I said it is an absolute beast, and it’s not that bad to cool either I thought it would have been worse. We had a couple of moments between us when things got really hot though. I thought maybe I hurt it after a 99c all core 4750MHz 1.45v R20 run.. oops. But I think she’s ok.. my 5600 hit 103 once for a sec and she still rips. Didn’t sell it btw.. I think you were right about her so she’s snapped up tight in her clamshell.
> 
> I just set PBO and all things related to it in the bios. You can achieve the same thing as Ryzen master but without doing it in windows..



Hey, any chip that can manage 5075MHz effective on air is pretty damn "decent"  what did CTR diagnostic say as to the quality?

1.45V 99C  just one CB run, probably fine


----------



## freeagent (Jun 3, 2021)

I haven't run core cycler on this CPU, I will try before the weekend though. I did try it on my last CPU but it kind of took over my system and  was hard to shut the program down. I was probably looking at something wrong though..

Man this thing is spicy lol.. maybe those liquid cooled guys are on to something


----------



## freeagent (Jun 4, 2021)

I was able to play with the power a little bit. I got +200 -30 stable I think.. no errors or crashing so far like I was getting before. Temps are a little better too





Edit:

I was getting reboots running pi32m usually after the first 1/3 pass.

Edit:

No more crashes and seems to run everything fine, no error reports yet. Hit 103f in the backyard, upstairs is 76 and the basement is 21.5c


----------



## GoldenX (Jun 11, 2021)

In transit an OEM 5600X with no heatsink, some 3600MHz CL18 Geil RAM (wanted something cheap with no RGB that isn't 2666MHz), Asus Tuf B550 Gaming Plus so I can add an RX550 in there, an ID-COOLING SE-224-XT Basic, and the current stuff in the specs. I will have so much fun building this.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 11, 2021)

Everything arrived... except the CPU block which arrives next week, damnit
(No stock and huge backorder, changed to a cheaper model)

*cries in cant use yet*


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 11, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Everything arrived... except the CPU block which arrives next week, damnit
> (No stock and huge backorder, changed to a cheaper model)
> 
> *cries in cant use yet*



Just enjoy some fresh oyster eating in the mean time.


----------



## GoldenX (Jun 11, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Everything arrived... except the CPU block which arrives next week, damnit
> (No stock and huge backorder, changed to a cheaper model)
> 
> *cries in cant use yet*


Time to watercool the stock one.
I've had everything except CPU and RAM for 3 weeks now, I know the feeling.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 13, 2021)

I managed to put together an old corroded EK AM3/1155 block with some new brackets and get it working well


62C CPU, 42C GPU with cinebench R23 + nicehash at the same time


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Jun 14, 2021)

So...I finally got the ovaries to run CTR the other day. And, after what seemed like hours, I was finally able to find out that, low n' behold, I have a fucking GOLDEN SAMPLE  

You could imagine my shock. Like, golden tier is supposed to be AMAZING, right? That means it's a beauty overclocker, right?


----------



## QuietBob (Jun 14, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> So...I finally got the ovaries to run CTR the other day. And, after what seemed like hours, I was finally able to find out that, low n' behold, I have a fucking GOLDEN SAMPLE
> You could imagine my shock. Like, golden tier is supposed to be AMAZING, right? That means it's a beauty overclocker, right?


I'm not sure how the CTR rating translates to real-life use, but I'd try an all core OC. Your cooling is adequate, so you won't be limited by temperature. In fact, you should see even lower temps. Just don't go too high on the Vcore, below 1.3v is mostly safe. Depending on your workloads, it may or may not bring performance benefits - but hey, it's free MHz!


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## tabascosauz (Jun 14, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> So...I finally got the ovaries to run CTR the other day. And, after what seemed like hours, I was finally able to find out that, low n' behold, I have a fucking GOLDEN SAMPLE
> 
> You could imagine my shock. Like, golden tier is supposed to be AMAZING, right? That means it's a beauty overclocker, right?



And to think you slept on it for...how long? 

Lemme guess, CTR probably recommended something like 4.5 @ 1.275V? Golden sample is usually reserved for pretty amazing chips. Below 1.25V should be pretty easy to do and pretty safe, at 1.2V you should be good for forever. I mean, it's a 3600 and it's a golden sample - whichever all-core you decide on is basically guaranteed to be better-performing.

Then there's me with 3 bronze CPUs


----------



## GoldenX (Jun 16, 2021)

Zen3 is amazing.
Also, trash tier b-die is not that bad.


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Jun 18, 2021)

Normally if it were any other time of the year, I'd be going straight for that P2 profile. Alas, we don't have summer here in Modesto. In the 3 or so years I've been living here, I've come to understand we have Hell here, not summer. And we're baking here at the moment. In other words, how can I increase performance, but keep the heat while gaming in check? Sometimes I play for hours, and even with the AC on, my room can get a bit uncomfortable (doesn't help that it's directly over the garage). Is there any way to sort of have my cake and ieat it too?


----------



## freeagent (Jun 18, 2021)

If your room is warming up I would say its probably the GPU, as the CPU wouldn't be under the same load. You could explore the world of undervolting, or even just run a static OC at 1 voltage. On my 3600XT I liked 4400 @ 1.268v. Temps were very manageable, and performance was still excellent.

In other news I beat my old record lol..


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 18, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Normally if it were any other time of the year, I'd be going straight for that P2 profile. Alas, we don't have summer here in Modesto. In the 3 or so years I've been living here, I've come to understand we have Hell here, not summer. And we're baking here at the moment. In other words, how can I increase performance, but keep the heat while gaming in check? Sometimes I play for hours, and even with the AC on, my room can get a bit uncomfortable (doesn't help that it's directly over the garage). Is there any way to sort of have my cake and ieat it too?



Was expecting a bit more from a golden sample, but 4.35 @ 1.25V sounds decent.

I know TU106 can take a healthy undervolt (mine @ 0.981V, lops off about 8-10 degrees in temperature across the board, stock ran up to the temp limiter at 83C) and I'm sure the TU116 can probably do the same. But not much of a power consumption reduction from GPU UV. Maybe 5W at most.

You could cap your framerate in games where it doesn't really matter, e.g. MW2019 120fps DLSS @ 120-160W compared to 120-165fps DLSS @ 180W. On a hot day, I can game for 10 hours non-stop in Minecraft (45W or so) or Genshin (80-120W, 60fps hard limit), but after about 1 hour of MW2019 (180W @ 165Hz) or War Thunder (175W @ 120fps cap) it starts to get a lil uncomfortable sitting there.

If the sliders in Afterburner still work you can probably just lower your power limit, but at that point you're just throwing away perf you paid for

You can also probably land a -0.025V to -0.05V offset on the 3600, no change to LLC, and not incur noticeable performance loss. Problem with static OC is that while idle may seem calmer and cooler (which really doesn't contribute to room heat despite appearances), boost is likely still more efficient under load if you ever run all-core loads,


----------



## Mussels (Jun 18, 2021)

my 5800x is running hot on this custom water and now i gotta stab it lots to find out why

50c idle, 60C single thread and 80C multi thread - but thats creeped to 85C at times on a custom loop that handles a 3090 with ease (and this is with the 3090 idle, so its not the heat of both doing it)


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 18, 2021)

Mussels said:


> my 5800x is running hot on this custom water and now i gotta stab it lots to find out why
> 
> 50c idle, 60C single thread and 80C multi thread - but thats creeped to 85C at times on a custom loop that handles a 3090 with ease (and this is with the 3090 idle, so its not the heat of both doing it)




that seems a bit hot for idle! I hope you get it figured out


----------



## Mussels (Jun 18, 2021)

a remount got me to 35C idle and 75C cinebench load, which is better... but leads me to the question of wtf is going on with the mounting to make it so fussy


----------



## freeagent (Jun 18, 2021)

She is spicy! Sounds like TIM was a little thin when it cured.. but I could be just talking shit..


----------



## Mussels (Jun 18, 2021)

I've got that fancy derbauer ryzen offset mounting kit coming in, i reckon thats part of it with the 5800x and its spicy off centered die


----------



## GoldenX (Jun 21, 2021)

Curve Optimizer really makes wonders. 4725 all core on Cinebench is lovely.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 21, 2021)

temps settled right down, it was a mix of a poor mount and air bubbles in the block

i look forward to the offset thing tweaking it even more

13 hours of gaming and mining


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 22, 2021)

A reminder for Curve Optimizer testing: Corecycler comes with a config.ini for a reason. Probably this was already mentioned in the CO thread of biblical proportions, but I'm a smooth brain that only found out last week.

Obviously, any all-core benchmark is a terrible test (by itself, at least) for Curve Optimizer, PB clocks drop like a stone on all-core. But default settings Corecycler doesn't seem to be too great either.

By default, the script only runs 6 minutes per core, at "Huge" FFT length (basically just the region beyond the Large FFT sizes). 6 minutes is not nearly enough to test all members of even the Huge FFT region, it's only enough roughly for a full run of Smallest or Small FFTs (which the script does not test by default).



I had long been running a -10/10/12/12/12/12/15/15/15/15/15/15 profile, which I assumed to be stable due to always passing default 6 min Corecycler and generally no symptoms of instability.

I started by changing to 6 min Small FFT (~1 full cycle per iteration), then 13 min Small FFT (~2 cycles). The preferred cores started dropping like flies, rounding errors for days.
I tested 13 min Huge FFT (~1 cycle) next. Having been adjusted, the cores were much closer to stable, but some threw sporadic errors that didn't necessarily manifest in every test iteration.
Lastly, 68 min All FFT (1 cycle). Obviously *very* time consuming, but it continued to discover cores that needed further tweaking.
If I need to start a specific core from scratch, I start with 13 min Small FFT, then go to a single iteration of 1 hour All FFT. If stable, it goes to overnight testing with one other core on the other CCD that needs testing (by default, Corecycler alternates between CCD1 and CCD2 so heat can dissipate). By the time I wake up, the two selected cores should be finished about 4-5 iterations each and the test log will tell all.

How the new profile looks so far, some rather interesting distributions especially on previously-unassuming Cores 2 and 6:



Is all this really necessary? I dunno, but because this is my main rig and not my sacrificial APU mem OC rig, I just don't tolerate unstable overclocks if I'm aware of them. Rounding errors are rounding errors. Lord knows Core 0 and Core 1 were quite unstable at -10/-10 over the past few months, that was very quickly obvious even in 6 min Small FFT.

The script also allows other tests such as AIDA and yCruncher. Being the pepega it is, I'll probably forgo AIDA, but yCruncher may be worth a looksie.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 24, 2021)

New Hwinfo beta has per-core ryzen temp readings


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 24, 2021)

Mussels said:


> New Hwinfo beta has per-core ryzen temp readings



Seems to be quite accurate so far, good enough to replace CCD temps off the sensor list for me. Happened to update to 471.11 as well today, so got to watch how the temp sensors behaved during MW shader reinstallation (6-core AVX load).

Fortunately/unfortunately, the per-core temps also seem to confirm that the transient 10-20C spikes when above 13W per-core power aren't just a CCD1/CCD2 sensor anomaly. In all other games/applications though, the per-core sensors are cooler, much more consistent and less epileptic than the CCD1/CCD2 sensors, and max temp always stays 3-5C below CCD max temps.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 24, 2021)

Yeah its good to see that say, 7 cores are nice and chilly and only one has spiked

that sorta info really could have calmed down the 'urrrr ryzen hot' crowd long agol


----------



## Xzibit (Jun 25, 2021)

Finally AGESA 1.2.0.3 Patch B got released for my board. Been waiting 3 whole long endless days since the initial roll out.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 25, 2021)

Xzibit said:


> Finally AGESA 1.2.0.3 Patch B got released for my board. Been waiting 3 whole long endless days since the initial roll out.


not out for mine, whats new?

reddit has a lot of angry people
"Sadly it's another MSI scam. It's just good old plain 1.2.0.3a NOT b!

MSI: 'look at us pushing 'updates'!'"

there is fun arguing and weirdness here
(1) AGESA1.2.0.3b BIOS for X570/B550 boards : MSI_Gaming (reddit.com)


----------



## Xzibit (Jun 25, 2021)

Mussels said:


> not out for mine, whats new?
> 
> reddit has a lot of angry people
> "Sadly it's another MSI scam. It's just good old plain 1.2.0.3a NOT b!
> ...


Maybe just bitter. If he/they even bothered checking MSI never released 3a for some of those boards but hey its reddit what do you expect.

Also that example of "Look at us pushing updates" hes comparing same agesa update within the same beta iteration, did he expect it to change. The bios naming gave that away


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 25, 2021)

zen 5950x back in stock on amd.com official store.  just an fyi. msrp.  799


----------



## Xzibit (Jun 25, 2021)

Just flashed mine and I guess that guy got a lemon because mine is showing 1.2.0.3*b* in CPU-Z & HWinfo as well


----------



## Mussels (Jun 25, 2021)

Xzibit said:


> Just flashed mine and I guess that guy got a lemon because mine is showing 1.2.0.3*b* in CPU-Z & HWinfo as well


conspiracy guy said you could open the files up, and it would show as a

I dunno wha the real deal is, just what came up first when i googled it


----------



## Xzibit (Jun 25, 2021)

Mussels said:


> conspiracy guy said you could open the files up, and it would show as a
> 
> I dunno wha the real deal is, just what came up first when i googled it



He post his CPU-Z and HWinfo screens with 3a later on in the conversation for proof. So I checked mine and it says 3b.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 25, 2021)

A better visualization of what exhaustively testing with Corecycler looks like. The new per-core HWInfo temp sensors are a great help.

Was testing Core 0 (always a problem child) and Core 10 (only remaining untested core) last night. As before, 68 minutes each per iteration - 5 iterations - All FFTs.


 

Core 0: 2/5 failed @ 128K, 10752K
Core 10: 5/5 failed @ 2240K, 128K, 720K, 720K, 12288K

Core 10 isn't a problem; I had just set -30 for shits and giggles and because the next two lower ranked cores (#8 and #9) both did -30 stable. I'll just step down to -20 and test again tonight. There's no general pattern or correlation between CPPC/power/clock and stable offset - each core needs to be tested independently.

Core 0 (being the problem child), however, demonstrates the sort of inconsistent instability I've been talking about. If you had only run 2 iterations of the script, even at 68min All FFTs, there's a chance that it may have come back "passed" both times, giving you the impression that the current offset is stable.


I kinda wish AMD would just up and give us per-core OC. CO is nice, but often actually makes cores run hotter than they did stock - counterintuitive, yes, but anecdotally just higher freq even at the same Vcore can run hotter, and I see some cores draw more power and more VID the more aggressive the offset. For some of the unused cores (thanks CPPC) I'd rather use the -30 headroom to make it run cooler at the same clocks, than boost harder and never be used.

Now, back to testing.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 26, 2021)

Oh i like how that works now. i didnt pay attention when it was new, as it seemed... unfinished


----------



## sam_86314 (Jun 27, 2021)

Swapped out the 2600X in my main rig for a 5800X






Had issues with temperatures at first, but thanks to @Mussels, I've managed to not only completely fix my temps, but I'm seeing sustained clocks of over 5GHz in games.

I've been playing a lot of heavily modded Minecraft (341 mods in total), and I've noticed a dramatic improvement to performance in the game since upgrading. Framerates are not only noticeably higher, but they're also noticeably more consistent too.

My only real concern is voltage now. Even with a -0.1125v offset, Ryzen Master says up to 1.479v is being fed to the chip during CB runs, and CPU-Z reports up to 1.37v while gaming and benchmarking. Seems a bit high.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 27, 2021)

sam_86314 said:


> Swapped out the 2600X in my main rig for a 5800X
> 
> 
> 
> ...


use curve optimiser and not the offset, the offset can hurt clocks while the curve wont


----------



## sam_86314 (Jun 27, 2021)

Mussels said:


> use curve optimiser and not the offset, the offset can hurt clocks while the curve wont


Is there a generally agreed-upon curve to build off of?


----------



## Mussels (Jun 27, 2021)

sam_86314 said:


> Is there a generally agreed-upon curve to build off of?


start with -10

I'm at -14 or so with +200MHz, and stable - but i may be lucky

My first two cores can do like -30, but i updated the BIOS and got too lazy for per-core again


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 27, 2021)

sam_86314 said:


> Is there a generally agreed-upon curve to build off of?



Every chip is different on quality. For the 6- and 8-cores it's easier to get away with a single offset across the board (e.g. -10, -15, even -30) but not guaranteed.

Best to go with the Corecycler script at its default settings, go slow say with -5 all cores at first, then note where specific cores start falling off as you start uniformly increasing the offset.

The bigger chips behave and respond a little differently to Curve Optimizer, but here's an idea of the kind of spread you could conceivably be looking at:



The easy mistake to make would be to have a chip that looks like CCD1 on mine, test it in corecycler at say -10 all cores, have it throw errors, and come to the premature conclusion that the entire CPU is bad because it "can't do -10". You get the idea.

almost forgot: GitHub - sp00n/corecycler: Stability test script for PBO & Curve Optimizer stability testing on AMD Ryzen processors

And congrats on the big upgrade!


----------



## sam_86314 (Jun 27, 2021)

Gonna try just setting everything to -10 and seeing what happens.

For other 5800X owners, what voltages do y'all see under various loads (CB, gaming, Prime95, etc.)?

EDIT: Got a BSOD after a CB23 run followed by a CB20 run. Gonna start backing off I guess.


----------



## GoldenX (Jun 27, 2021)

The progress on mine, seems rock solid so far.
Remember to set LLC to the ideal level for your board, PBO to motherboard limits, and play with AutoOC depending of your CPU sample, mine is at +200MHz.
Use a known stable memory profile, else it will be hell to stability test.


----------



## sam_86314 (Jun 27, 2021)

For the time being, I've given up on CO due to instability. I still need to run Memtest for a while to see if my memory is stable at its rated speed (it wasn't on my old CPU).

Gonna keep running a negative offset for now. Also really don't know how concerned I should be about the voltages I'm getting.

On another positive note, I'm noticing performance improvements in even more real-world scenarios. When playing BotW in Cemu, I'm now GPU bottlenecked. That means I get a steady 70 FPS at 3440x1440. My old CPU was the bottleneck in that scenario, presumably due to the poorer single-threaded performance, which resulted in less consistent performance and slightly lower framerates.

Overall, I am very happy with this upgrade so far.


----------



## freeagent (Jun 27, 2021)

Woke up this morning to find my cpu running @ 90c. I have been folding for a few days and last night I decided to try out my Le Grand Macho RT and TY-143 combo on my 5900X. Prior that combo had been excellent on my last 4 CPUs. Turns out it wasn’t as good as my new cooler like I saw with my last 2 CPUs. I think the board inside the fan went, it should have been running at 2500rpm like it was last night.. but could not get more than 650rpm out of it. Funny that same thing happened to my TY-147A last winter.. left it at 1400rpm woke up to it at 250rpm. I really like their cooler, and their fans perform well but I had 2 die in 4 years.. guess which guy is looking at IPPC fans now 

Edit:

Sorry the fans were 3 years old, I got them in 2018.. I have a TY-147B left on my z77 rig.. tick tock..


----------



## sam_86314 (Jun 28, 2021)

Ran Memtest86+ for about eight hours last night with no errors. Guess my memory instability at its rated speed was just a limitation of Zen+.

My PC is now perfectly fine with my memory at 3600MHz C18.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 28, 2021)

sam_86314 said:


> Ran Memtest86+ for about eight hours last night with no errors. Guess my memory instability at its rated speed was just a limitation of Zen+.
> 
> My PC is now perfectly fine with my memory at 3600MHz C18.



yep the latest Zen always seems to run memory better.  glad it worked out for you


----------



## sam_86314 (Jun 30, 2021)

Had a BSOD while playing BeamNG.drive and backing up a DVD at the same time with my voltage offset at -0.1185v and PBO set to 200MHz. Backed off both settings a bit to see if stability improves.

Also recently overhauled the cooling in my PC which I'll post about in the near future.

Actually just did some reading on how curve optimizer and stuff works, so I think I'm gonna start over with all of this, especially since I have much higher quality fans in my system now.

EDIT: Even with CO set to -5 on all cores and no voltage offset, I got a random crash while watching YouTube. Now at -3 on all cores with adjusted PBO settings.

I'm thinking I'll take the same approach I did with my old CPU if it keeps acting up; no PBO and minimal voltage adjustments.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 1, 2021)

sam_86314 said:


> Had a BSOD while playing BeamNG.drive and backing up a DVD at the same time with my voltage offset at -0.1185v and PBO set to 200MHz. Backed off both settings a bit to see if stability improves.
> 
> Also recently overhauled the cooling in my PC which I'll post about in the near future.
> 
> ...



Use the tweaked PBO values in the thread i made, without messing with voltages (and if you have a truly poop CPU, without the +200)

(17) 5800x (and other Zen 3 chips) PBO settings/Temperature fix | TechPowerUp Forums


----------



## sam_86314 (Jul 1, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Use the tweaked PBO values in the thread i made, without messing with voltages (and if you have a truly poop CPU, without the +200)
> 
> (17) 5800x (and other Zen 3 chips) PBO settings/Temperature fix | TechPowerUp Forums


Been running 90/60/95 -0.1000v offset and no PBO override for a few hours now. 4850MHz on single-core loads, so far no crashes. Mid 60s to low 70s under gaming loads (dependent on ambient temp).

EDIT: Just switched to 105/70/95 with the offset set to "negative auto" (which I remember yielded good results on my old i7-2600K when overclocking) to see what happens. Currently idling around 35C to 40C with an ambient temp of 22C.

EDIT 2: Synthetic benchmarks with these settings are pretty much the same as when I was running CO and +200MHz. Seems that the extra 200MHz doesn't do anything for them. Gonna stick with these settings I think. Core voltage is considerably lower than it was before. I was seeing less than 1.3v under a single-core load.

EDIT the third: Forget what I said about temperatures. They're still pretty high under certain loads, though still better than stock settings. Interestingly my CPU got hotter while playing heavily modded Minecraft (mid-to-high 70s) than it did while running Cinebench R23 (low-to-mid 60s). Voltages went up to 1.45v, though I've read and am beginning to accept that those voltage spikes are normal.


----------



## outpt (Jul 2, 2021)

any idea when this will be avalible?


----------



## Asryan (Jul 2, 2021)

Hello anyone here using a dark hero motherboard with a 5900x who would be able to tell me the whole settings for setting up the oc with dynamic oc switcher? Thanks


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 2, 2021)

sam_86314 said:


> Been running 90/60/95 -0.1000v offset and no PBO override for a few hours now. 4850MHz on single-core loads, so far no crashes. Mid 60s to low 70s under gaming loads (dependent on ambient temp).
> 
> EDIT: Just switched to 105/70/95 with the offset set to "negative auto" (which I remember yielded good results on my old i7-2600K when overclocking) to see what happens. Currently idling around 35C to 40C with an ambient temp of 22C.
> 
> ...



Up to 1.5V has always been allowed to sustain high single core clocks, but Ryzen Master is basically the only software that can accurately read single core boost Vcore. The +200MHz override only works if your boosting cores are easily able to exceed 4850MHz - it only tweaks the absolute Frequency Limit (in HWInfo) to set a theoretically higher boost ceiling, other facts like core quality can intervene before then to limit boost.

For undervolt settings you need to be testing your curve settings thoroughly through CoreCycler or OCCT v8.0 which now has a similar function. Point is to push boost clocks as high as they can possibly go to verify stability under best-case boost. Obviously a certain level of stability is *probably* good enough for most users, but you never know where you stand until you test.

Interesting you should mention Minecraft, I stopped running Optifine+shaders because of just that. Vanilla MC sails at a breezy 165fps at all times with CPU at like 60C and GPU at basically idle. MC with _any_ shaderpack struggles to reach 100fps in busy scenes, with the 2 preferred CPU cores balls to the wall at 75C and GPU at 100%. Optifine on its own is still fine, though. I bet the shaders implementation is just optimized like garbage, there's no combination of graphics settings that can be tweaked to regain the loss in performance from even lowest quality shaders.


----------



## sam_86314 (Jul 2, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Up to 1.5V has always been allowed to sustain high single core clocks, but Ryzen Master is basically the only software that can accurately read single core boost Vcore. The +200MHz override only works if your boosting cores are easily able to exceed 4850MHz - it only tweaks the absolute Frequency Limit (in HWInfo) to set a theoretically higher boost ceiling, other facts like core quality can intervene before then to limit boost.
> 
> For undervolt settings you need to be testing your curve settings thoroughly through CoreCycler or OCCT v8.0 which now has a similar function. Point is to push boost clocks as high as they can possibly go to verify stability under best-case boost. Obviously a certain level of stability is *probably* good enough for most users, but you never know where you stand until you test.
> 
> Interesting you should mention Minecraft, I stopped running Optifine+shaders because of just that. Vanilla MC sails at a breezy 165fps at all times with CPU at like 60C and GPU at basically idle. MC with _any_ shaderpack struggles to reach 100fps in busy scenes, with the 2 preferred CPU cores balls to the wall at 75C and GPU at 100%. Optifine on its own is still fine, though. I bet the shaders implementation is just optimized like garbage, there's no combination of graphics settings that can be tweaked to regain the loss in performance from even lowest quality shaders.


So, in theory, the +200MHz shouldn't affect stability since it just lets PBO go higher if conditions are right?

Your performance in Minecraft with shaders; is that on your 4650G and its iGPU? 

As I said a few posts ago, I'm running the "All The Mods 3" mod pack with a couple of extra mods that I like thrown in (341 mods in total). I can sustain my FPS limit of 144 pretty much all the time now, but my CPU temps are higher than synthetic loads.

I haven't done any real tests in the vanilla game yet.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 2, 2021)

sam_86314 said:


> So, in theory, the +200MHz shouldn't affect stability since it just lets PBO go higher if conditions are right?



It really shouldn't, especially since it sounds like your chip isn't benefiting much from the +200MHz ceiling. Though there are some owners who say that Corecycler turns up errors even at stock boost with 0 offset, so never say never I guess.



sam_86314 said:


> Your performance in Minecraft with shaders; is that on your 4650G and its iGPU?
> 
> As I said a few posts ago, I'm running the "All The Mods 3" mod pack with a couple of extra mods that I like thrown in (341 mods in total). I can sustain my FPS limit of 144 pretty much all the time now, but my CPU temps are higher than synthetic loads.
> 
> I haven't done any real tests in the vanilla game yet.



No, on my main with 5900X/2060 Super @ 1440p. I haven't played minecraft on my HTPC ever I think. The 165fps is just because I V-sync on my S2721DGF which is a 165Hz monitor.

Damn, that's a lot of mods.  Yeah, I don't have nearly even 10% of that running on MC. Vanilla or Optifine runs really easy on CPU and GPU, it's just with shaders where it goes completely berserk and still churns out barely 90fps.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 3, 2021)

+200 should be stable and fine IF you dont have any undervolting going on (or serious Vdroop) - doesnt mean you'll get the +200 unless conditions are good (enough spare power in the PBO limits, low enough temps)


----------



## sam_86314 (Jul 3, 2021)

Mussels said:


> +200 should be stable and fine IF you dont have any undervolting going on (or serious Vdroop) - doesnt mean you'll get the +200 unless conditions are good (enough spare power in the PBO limits, low enough temps)


Decided to give it a try. CB runs were perfectly fine. BSOD'd while watching YouTube. No voltage offset or anything. Back down to my previous settings. Guess my chip is somewhat of a dud; oh well.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 3, 2021)

sam_86314 said:


> Decided to give it a try. CB runs were perfectly fine. BSOD'd while watching YouTube. No voltage offset or anything. Back down to my previous settings. Guess my chip is somewhat of a dud; oh well.


crashes at low load can also be ram/IF related, they're the bane of ryzen lol


----------



## Nuckles56 (Jul 3, 2021)

Mussels said:


> crashes at low load can also be ram/IF related, they're the bane of ryzen lol


That and also board related, as some BIOS settings make a big difference, I had issues with low load crashes for a while even with everything at stock. Thanks gigabyte...


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 5, 2021)

I'm trying to decide which memory kit to use when my Ryzen gets here.  For the record, they are g.skill brand and I own both, and the CPU is a Ryzen R7 5800X on a Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite.

Kit one is four sticks of dual rank 16GB for a total of 64GBs of ram at DDR4-3200.  Kit two is four sticks of single rank 8GBs for a total of 32GBs at the same DDR4-3200 speed and timings (14-14-14-34)

They are both verified B-die.

I don't know how well the Zen 3 memory controller will handle 4 dural rank sticks.  I need to clock up to at least DDR4-3200 to get the performance I desire.  Is that doable, usually?

Someone with experience help a frog out.  Can I expect the 64GB kit to work or do I have to roll back to the single rank kit here?


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 5, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I'm trying to decide which memory kit to use when my Ryzen gets here.  For the record, they are g.skill brand and I own both, and the CPU is a Ryzen R7 5800X on a Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite.
> 
> Kit one is four sticks of dual rank 16GB for a total of 64GBs of ram at DDR4-3200.  Kit two is four sticks of single rank 8GBs for a total of 32GBs at the same DDR4-3200 speed and timings (14-14-14-34)
> 
> ...



I expect the sing rank x4 will do best and very easy to OC to 3600 cas 14 or 15.  

if i were to do the DR setup... I think I would just do 2x16gb for 32 total and OC it to like 3600 cas 15. four sticks prob won't be able to OC though im not sure on this.

i really don't think you want to be content with 3200, gamersnexus and hardware unboxed both did videos showing you want to be running around 3600-3800 in range and either 4x 8gb sticks or 2x16gb dr sticks. something weird about the way ryzen 5xxx does memory. but you get like 10% fps gain by doing it this way.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 5, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I'm trying to decide which memory kit to use when my Ryzen gets here.  For the record, they are g.skill brand and I own both, and the CPU is a Ryzen R7 5800X on a Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite.
> 
> Kit one is four sticks of dual rank 16GB for a total of 64GBs of ram at DDR4-3200.  Kit two is four sticks of single rank 8GBs for a total of 32GBs at the same DDR4-3200 speed and timings (14-14-14-34)
> 
> ...



4x16GB at 3200 shouldn't be much of a problem.
4x8GB is as easy as 2x16GB, just keep a small fan on it - eye on the heat dumped on it by the 3070 during gaming.

4x16GB is quite the load on the UMC, but 3200 is no sweat. If you can stretch it to 3600 I'd still keep the VDIMM really low and thus stay at CL16 or so, because B-die being temp sensitive has a pretty bad time with four dual rank sticks clustered together at 1.4V+, even with a dedicated RAM fan. Don't expect the D15 to do anything for 4x16GB B-die.

Though honestly, if you find that you want more than 3200 at 64GB, your best bet is just to go with new Ballistix with 16Gb Micron Rev.B. 16Gb ICs so double the density, 64GB in either 4x16GB single rank sticks, or 2x32GB dual rank sticks, scales up past 4000 no problem just needs to relax the timings compared to B-die. And two DIMMs will allow for plenty of airflow. Not sure if the 3200 kit is Rev.B though, certain the 3600 kit will be though.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 5, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> i really don't think you want to be content with 3200, gamersnexus and hardware unboxed both did videos showing you want to be running around 3600-3800 in range and either 4x 8gb sticks or 2x16gb dr sticks.


I've read both.  The difference between DDR4-3200 and DDR-3600 is around 1-2%.

It's diminishing returns.  DDR4-3200 seems to be the one you "must hit" and beyond that it's just icing on the cake.

This is hardwareunboxed's text article, for reference:









						Ryzen 5000 Memory Performance Guide
					

In this article we'll be searching for Zen 3's memory sweet spot and looking at DDR4 memory performance with the new Ryzen 5000 CPU series, and a...




					www.techspot.com
				




If I can do DDR4-3200 at native timings, I'll likely just stick with the 64GB kit.

Are we sure that total of 8 ranks isn't going to kill the IMC's ability to clock though?  I've read a few articles and quite a few reddit posts calling this into question, but no one has seemingly actually tried it.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 5, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I've read both.  The difference between DDR4-3200 and DDR-3600 is around 1-2%.
> 
> It's diminishing returns.  DDR4-3200 seems to be the one you "must hit" and beyond that it's just icing on the cake.
> 
> ...



hmm for some reason I thought it was 10%  

well XMP will def work just fine with the 64gb kit.  i'd say go with that if you don't want to push it higher clock


ya i think if it were me i'd do 64gb kit at xmp and leave it be.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 5, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> hmm for some reason I thought it was 10%
> 
> well XMP will def work just fine with the 64gb kit.  i'd say go with that if you don't want to push it higher clock
> 
> ...


My main reason for wanting the additional ram is for my development work and for Kerbal Space Program (ram pig), so yeah that's probably what I will do.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 5, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> My main reason for wanting the additional ram is for my development work and for Kerbal Space Program (ram pig), so yeah that's probably what I will do.



Even the chiplet Ryzens have a much stronger memory controller than most people give them credit for. Infinity Fabric =! memory controller. Most redditors have a hard time distinguishing between the two.

I'm pretty confident 4 ranks per channel 3200 should be easily achievable, but when thinking about higher speeds keep in mind that the Aorus Elite is a 4-layer board. Best case on 4-layer boards, vendors generally will not QVL above 4400 on 1 rank per channel, and 3733 on 2 ranks per channel, so expecting 3600 on 4 ranks per channel for said board may be a bit of a stretch, can't say whether that would or would not be possible.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 5, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> My main reason for wanting the additional ram is for my development work and for Kerbal Space Program (ram pig), so yeah that's probably what I will do.



Also, I always thought the jokes about Chrome were unfounded... I checked it yesterday... I had 7 tabs open... and I was using 53% ram on a 16gb system... just steam, and 7 tabs of chrome.  absolutely non-sense.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 5, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Also, I always thought the jokes about Chrome were unfounded... I checked it yesterday... I had 7 tabs open... and I was using 53% ram on a 16gb system... just steam, and 7 tabs of chrome.  absolutely non-sense.


Development can be worse than you can possibly imagine, ram wise


----------



## Mussels (Jul 5, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I'm trying to decide which memory kit to use when my Ryzen gets here.  For the record, they are g.skill brand and I own both, and the CPU is a Ryzen R7 5800X on a Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite.
> 
> Kit one is four sticks of dual rank 16GB for a total of 64GBs of ram at DDR4-3200.  Kit two is four sticks of single rank 8GBs for a total of 32GBs at the same DDR4-3200 speed and timings (14-14-14-34)
> 
> ...


3200 should be fine with 8 ranks on zen 3, but earlier zen would have struggled - you may need to raise SoC voltage slightly, at worst.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 5, 2021)

Mussels said:


> 3200 should be fine with 8 ranks on zen 3, but earlier zen would have struggled - you may need to raise SoC voltage slightly, at worst.


My board (got it on sale) has a pretty good vrm (for a 4-layer) on everything but SOC where it's sort of bare bones.  Still picture it will be enough though...


----------



## freeagent (Jul 5, 2021)

sam_86314 said:


> Guess my chip is somewhat of a dud; oh well.


Try a little more SOC voltage, maybe 1.125v and more IOD votlage, maybe 1.06v or a bit more..

You shouldn't have to use any kind of offset, vcore wise anyways..


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 5, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> My board (got it on sale) has a pretty good vrm (for a 4-layer) on everything but SOC where it's sort of bare bones.  Still picture it will be enough though...



4 ranks per channel is a tough load but at just 3200 even on 2 ranks per channel easily runs on VSOC as low as 0.9-0.95V. I just don't see it needing to exceed 1.1V worst case. On 3200 XMP the boards generally call for 1.0-1.05V or so default?

The component choice of the VSOC portion is a little meh on the Elite, but it hardly matters as long as you have 2 VSOC phases. I've not seen any AM4 board with excessive VSOC droop.........as long as you're not torturing APUs like me, without iGPU the VSOC domain never really pulls more than about 20A or so current


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 7, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> 4 ranks per channel is a tough load but at just 3200 even on 2 ranks per channel easily runs on VSOC as low as 0.9-0.95V. I just don't see it needing to exceed 1.1V worst case. On 3200 XMP the boards generally call for 1.0-1.05V or so default?
> 
> The component choice of the VSOC portion is a little meh on the Elite, but it hardly matters as long as you have 2 VSOC phases. I've not seen any AM4 board with excessive VSOC droop.........as long as you're not torturing APUs like me, without iGPU the VSOC domain never really pulls more than about 20A or so current


Takes 1.15 but seemingly is stable.  I doubt that's a voltage worth worrying about, right?


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 7, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Takes 1.15 but seemingly is stable.  I doubt that's a voltage worth worrying about, right?



dram calculator shows several different variants using 1.15v i think its fine


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 7, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Takes 1.15 but seemingly is stable.  I doubt that's a voltage worth worrying about, right?



No need to worry below 1.2V. 1.15V is a bit high but that's by single/dual rank standards, obvs not the same. It's just that usually you'll want to run as low VSOC as you can, also helps to shave off a little bit of SOC power draw. But you'll need to test it over time (weeks/months of use) to find out what VSOC is stable or not. Often when IF stability is an issue it's less a question of VSOC as it is secondary voltages like the VDDGs and VDDP.

Must-have tool to get you started, our AMD version of ASRock Timing Configurator: ZenTimings (protonrom.com)
Take a screenie, let's see what setings you're defaulting to on XMP

DRAM Calc is rather pointless on most things, but there are quite a few experienced B-die OCers on Ryzen in the AIDA thread that might help you out with secondaries/tertiaries and minor voltages. I only do B-die OC on my APU and don't touch much on my 5900X so I'm rather useless when it comes to chiplet CPU know-how.

Share your AIDA 64 cache and memory benchmark here | TechPowerUp Forums

I know for sure that @freeagent runs 4 sticks B-die and benches 24/7  might have specific advice to offer


----------



## thesmokingman (Jul 7, 2021)

I finally got around to flashing to the latest 4002 bios on my strix-e. It was surprisingly smooth taking my memory settings without too much fuss. Previous bios flashes meant a an hour or so of fiddling to massage my known good mem oc's but this time it took with much more ease. I also enabled curve optimizer to drop the voltage a lil bit for summer. I miss the low ambient already.


----------



## freeagent (Jul 7, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I know for sure that @freeagent runs 4 sticks B-die and benches 24/7  might have specific advice to offer


Steve touched off on that once, I am that guy in an arms race against myself


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 8, 2021)

Ended up switching to the 32GB set due to ongoing stablilty issues...  it seems quad rank scenarios are still really rough on the Ryzen IMC.  The new dual rank situation is working much nicer, already at 3400Mhz with Infinity fabric in sync and all that with no voltage bump at all.  Think I will stay like this and see how far I can go...

Final result:  Note, this must be poorly binned b-die, it absolutely refuses to do 1T and the tRAS won't go much lower...  Also 3800 hurts my timings in such a way as to not be worth it.

Still I am happy:


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 8, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Ended up switching to the 32GB set due to ongoing stablilty issues...  it seems quad rank scenarios are still really rough on the Ryzen IMC.  The new dual rank situation is working much nicer, already at 3400Mhz with Infinity fabric in sync and all that with no voltage bump at all.  Think I will stay like this and see how far I can go...
> 
> Final result:  Note, this must be poorly binned b-die, it absolutely refuses to do 1T and the tRAS won't go much lower...  Also 3800 hurts my timings in such a way as to not be worth it.
> 
> ...



It's shouldn't be badly binned B-die. What year production do the stickers say? The only badly binned B-die I've ever seen is old Corsair kits where B-die had no business being at those crappy XMP speeds.

3600 flat 15 is impressive but those timings look pretty loose. But you are already at 1.45V, I'd think that your existing VDIMM would be more than enough for tightening some timings. Probably wouldn't want to go much higher without paying attention to 4DIMM airflow too.

If you're just dailying your system, no reason to go below tRAS=tCL+tRCDRD, where you already are.
tRC 85 is pretty high, try to bring that down to 45 or at least 55.
Try tRRDS/RRDL/FAW - 4/6/16. 
Try tWTRS/WTRL/WR - 4/12/12.
Try tRDRDSCL/WRWRSCL - 4/4.
Try tRDWR - 8.
imo those timings are just easy to default to on half-decent or better B-die, but tRFC is arguably a bigger deal - tRFC is like 50% of the equation when it comes to B-die latency figures. XMP is always super loose, for a daily you should be 160ns at the very least. Below 150ns it starts getting tougher and depends on the quality of your sticks as well as the VDIMM you want to push, because tRFC scales visibly with VDIMM especially when you get into the 130-140ish range.

Helpful chart I've been using since forever:


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 8, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> What year production do the stickers say


I don't know and they are too hard to get at now to justify going to look at them, but this was a very early kit.  I bought it like when DDR4 was a hot new thing.



tabascosauz said:


> Probably wouldn't want to go much higher without paying attention to 4DIMM airflow too.


My whole case is basically a blower so I'm not really concerned too much about airflow.



tabascosauz said:


> But you are already at 1.45V


For whatever reason, the DIMMS fail to boot even at the bog standard 3200 XMP without this, though the stickers say 1.35v.  I'm not really sure what is going on there.

For the record, the tertaiary and secondary timings are basically the old XMP profile at this point as I left the settings on auto there.  Probably a lot more tuning to do.



tabascosauz said:


> It's shouldn't be badly binned B-die


To loop back on this, the fact it won't do 1T PERIOD is the only thing making me say this.  That and that it seems volt hungry.

Is that very uncommon?


----------



## freeagent (Jul 8, 2021)

The docp trc my mems set for 3200c14 is what I would use for 2K it’s crazy. Super loosey goosey.

Won’t do 1T?

Maybe they are a mixed set?


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 8, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> For whatever reason, the DIMMS fail to boot even at the bog standard 3200 XMP without this, though the stickers say 1.35v.  I'm not really sure what is going on there.
> 
> For the record, the tertaiary and secondary timings are basically the old XMP profile at this point as I left the settings on auto there.  Probably a lot more tuning to do.



I have a feeling VSOC being where it is isn't helping at all. I know I said lower VSOC is always better (sorry, shouldn't have jumped the gun lol) but when working out memory settings at first it's always better to start at something safe like 1.1V and work your way down after you've tested everything else to be stable. 

The minor voltages look really weird. Gigabyte (or all vendors, rather, at this point) should be following the same auto-rules as Asus, or at least on my GB boards and Asus board they seem to.

For a 1.1V VSOC, VDDG-IOD should be 1.05V, VDDG-CCD should be 1.0V, VDDP should be 0.9-0.95V. Lots of room for tweaking after that of course (I run 1.038V VSOC, 0.95V both VDDG, 0.9V VDDP), but it's a good place to start.

Also, most setups won't do 1T out of the box, command rate works a little differently on AMD. We have 1T, 1T Geardown ON, and 2T. Geardown and 2T are what most people run, depending on who you ask either of them can be faster depending on the benchmark. 1T Geardown OFF generally requires some CADBUS tweaking that isn't always guaranteed to work, and isn't much of a practical performance difference. 2T is fine.

As to volt-hungry...there's still an appreciable margin for binning regular B-die. You might get a kit that can only do 3600CL14 at 1.45V+, or a kit that'll breeze through 3800CL14 at barely 1.5V. Or you could get a kit like my old Viper Steels that's unfortunately on a A0 PCB, and can't do 3600CL14 at any voltage.


----------



## RealKGB (Jul 8, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> To loop back on this, the fact it won't do 1T PERIOD is the only thing making me say this.  That and that it seems volt hungry.
> 
> Is that very uncommon?


I don't speak for all B-Die owners but my kit is doing 1T right now, not sure if GDM is on or off. Was bought in 2017, full specs(?) are 2x8GB 3200 C14-14-14-31. It is running with another 2x8GB kit of Vengeance LPX 3200 C16-18-18-36 with Nanya Tech dies.


----------



## freeagent (Jul 8, 2021)

I can do like 3400ish, a little more with straight 1T, usually I run 1T gdm on, or 2T gdm off. But my limitation could be due to running a mixed set.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 8, 2021)

RealKGB said:


> I don't speak for all B-Die owners but my kit is doing 1T right now, not sure if GDM is on or off. Was bought in 2017, full specs(?) are 2x8GB 3200 C14-14-14-31. It is running with another 2x8GB kit of Vengeance LPX 3200 C16-18-18-36 with Nanya Tech dies.



Below 3600, 1T no GDM is easy with 0 extra voltage. I don't even think boards always even default to GDM on 3200CL16 XMP. Getting closer to 4000, just brute forcing 1T costs too much extra VDIMM without tweaks like ClkDrvStr @ 60 etc. Some of the 1T purists are super enthusiastic about how 60-20-24-24 CADBUS alone makes 1T a walk in the park, but has never worked for me on any kit on any board even at only 3600.


----------



## RealKGB (Jul 8, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Below 3600, 1T no GDM is easy with 0 extra voltage. I don't even think boards always even default to GDM on 3200CL16 XMP. Getting closer to 4000, just brute forcing 1T costs too much extra VDIMM without tweaks like ClkDrvStr @ 60 etc. Some of the 1T purists are super enthusiastic about how 60-20-24-24 CADBUS alone makes 1T a walk in the park, but has never worked for me on any kit on any board even at only 3600.


If I can find the GDM setting in my BIOS I'll turn it off and see if it's stable. If it is I'll turn it back on, then go for 3400+ and if I succeed to go for 3400 1T GDM off, though if I get 3400 1T GDM on I'll take it.
GDM is definitely on; I tried to do 3333 C15 and it went up to C16. C14 was just not happening.


----------



## Nordic (Jul 9, 2021)

I purchased two more sticks of ram for a total of 64gb. Oddly enough I have an easier time running my memory at xmp speeds now.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 9, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Maybe they are a mixed set?


They came together, so I don't think so.

Now:








tabascosauz said:


> I have a feeling VSOC being where it is isn't helping at all. I know I said lower VSOC is always better


It is.  I tried higher with nearly no benefit (it'll actually do 3800 at 0.95).  Thing is the ram just gets really lose timings around the 3800 mark, for some weird reason.  CAS 17/18 and the like.  It's much tighter here, so we get a better overall picture as far as I am concerned.

I seem to either be being beat up by my 4-layer board, or I have some really weird ram lol.



tabascosauz said:


> The minor voltages look really weird. Gigabyte (or all vendors, rather, at this point) should be following the same auto-rules as Asus, or at least on my GB boards and Asus board they seem to.


This may be the origin.  Maybe the elite is just stupid with minor voltages.  Will try the manual ones you suggest.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 9, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> They came together, so I don't think so.
> 
> Now:
> 
> ...



It might boot at 0.95V but is IF actually stable at 0.95V? ie. random dropouts, reboots, funky behaviour, I had some of that when trying to run 1.025V VSOC.

I was more concerned about the minor voltages - CLDO_VDDP, VDDP-CCD and VDDP-IOD are all derivative rails that derive from VSOC, so they can never exceed VSOC. If they appear to be set higher than VSOC, then the board is most likely ignoring the settings and resorting to something unknown on its own. VDDP 0.9-0.95V, CCD=VSOC-0.05V, IOD=VSOC-0.1V, good defaults

Shouldn't be the board unless Gigabyte fucked something major with the mem topology, 2DPC encompasses both 4x8GB SR and 2x16GB DR and neither should be any harder to run than the other.

Honestly if you can do 3600, I'd just stay there and do flat CL16 and tighten up all the timings, do 1T Geardown, and maybe try for 145ns tRFC. Might end up equal or faster than CL15 at those v loose board defaults. I doubt you'll ever actually notice a performance difference to even 3800CL14.

Anecdotally, I much preferred working on 4200 16-16-16 on my A2 Viper Steels than I did 4200 17-18-18 on my A0 Vipers. Just...BIOS behaved very weird at times. Maybe they were right after all, Ryzen just doesn't have a great time with odd CL.



RealKGB said:


> If I can find the GDM setting in my BIOS I'll turn it off and see if it's stable. If it is I'll turn it back on, then go for 3400+ and if I succeed to go for 3400 1T GDM off, though if I get 3400 1T GDM on I'll take it.
> GDM is definitely on; I tried to do 3333 C15 and it went up to C16. C14 was just not happening.



Bet those Nanyas are really holding back the B-die huh   still, really surprised the Nanyas actually do flat 16, I always thought they said Nanya was just trash


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 9, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> It might boot at 0.95V but is IF actually stable at 0.95V? ie. random dropouts, reboots, funky behaviour, I had some of that when trying to run 1.025V VSOC.



Think so...  ran Prime95 large ffts overnight.  Was fine.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 9, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Think so...  ran Prime95 large ffts overnight.  Was fine.



I find 20 mins of Aida64 stability test is a great tool for Ryzen setups as well. If it can last 20 mins in that it pretty much is rock solid stable in my experience.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 9, 2021)

@tabascosauz, your new IMC voltatge parameters helped me eek out a lot more Trfc:

Behold:





I think I can probably do some more with geardown and stuff, but for right now, I'm going to be crazy and use my PC.


----------



## RealKGB (Jul 9, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Bet those Nanyas are really holding back the B-die huh   still, really surprised the Nanyas actually do flat 16, I always thought they said Nanya was just trash


Probably. Once I move on from DDR4 I'll take out the Nanya kit and see just how far this B-Die could go.
Based on the Internet Nanya does seem to be trash, maybe I lucked out? The kit I got at Micro Center was a Vengeance LPX 3200 C16 kit marked "Ryzen Ready", timings 16-18-18-36. I assumed the "Ryzen Ready" meant they didn't use notoriously Ryzen-hating Hynix dies. Guess I was right.
I've also got the sticks running in a weird config - one B-Die stick and one Nanya stick per channel. My reasoning at the time of install was "this way each channel will be the same and one won't be better than the other".
Here's what CPU-Z has for one of the sticks:


----------



## freeagent (Jul 9, 2021)

I had some Nanya's many many moons ago, they weren't terrible.. they might have surprised me too that's probably why I remember them the way I do. I had a set in SDR and DDR2..


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 9, 2021)

RealKGB said:


> Probably. Once I move on from DDR4 I'll take out the Nanya kit and see just how far this B-Die could go.
> Based on the Internet Nanya does seem to be trash, maybe I lucked out? The kit I got at Micro Center was a Vengeance LPX 3200 C16 kit marked "Ryzen Ready", timings 16-18-18-36. I assumed the "Ryzen Ready" meant they didn't use notoriously Ryzen-hating Hynix dies. Guess I was right.
> I've also got the sticks running in a weird config - one B-Die stick and one Nanya stick per channel. My reasoning at the time of install was "this way each channel will be the same and one won't be better than the other".
> Here's what CPU-Z has for one of the sticks:



I also thought Nanya was trash, but the memtesthelper guide was updated recently to include 8Gb Nanya B-die and it looks really good?? I don't really follow any Nanya stuff. Thaiphoon is such a shitshow of a guessing game, I don't know if there's any good way to tell aside from pulling off the heatspreaders.



Better than CJR and on par with 4Gb E-die and DJR is a very bold claim indeed. But according to the guide, Nanya doesn't scale tRCD, tRP or tRFC, so still v impressed you managed 16-16-16.

However, Nanya had some great DDR3 iirc ooops that was elpida lol, rip in pieces elpida swallowed by micron



R-T-B said:


> @tabascosauz, your new IMC voltatge parameters helped me eek out a lot more Trfc:
> 
> I think I can probably do some more with geardown and stuff, but for right now, I'm going to be crazy and use my PC.



Have you done any memory testing with TM5 or HCI?
Memory Testing with TestMem5 TM5 with custom configs | Overclock.net
MemTest for Windows Download Page (hcidesign.com)

I had no idea CLDOs could even affect tRFC  but 140ns is very healthy indeed if it's stable.

But even if 140ns throws errors in testing, imho the absolute limit (lowest tRFC value below which no POST regardless of VDIMM) and stable point for tRFC generally aren't too far apart. Maybe would only have to back off 3-5ns or so at most if you don't want to add VDIMM.

You should bench some AIDA to find out exactly what the difference between 252 and 630 tRFC is


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 9, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Have you done any memory testing with TM5 or HCI?
> Memory Testing with TestMem5 TM5 with custom configs | Overclock.net
> MemTest for Windows Download Page (hcidesign.com)


Generally I just use Prime95 large ffts with AVX2/FMA instructions on.  Are these a lot better?

It's already passed an hour and a half of large ffts.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 9, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Generally I just use Prime95 large ffts with AVX2/FMA instructions on.  Are these a lot better?
> 
> It's already passed an hour and a half of large ffts.



its a decent memory test but more for DIMM temp stress and memory controller stress

HCI and TM5 give you a bit more reference as to how stable/unstable your setup is

300% in HCI is mostly stable, 600% is probably good for a daily, I'd personally do 1000-2000% for a daily, generally needs to run overnight to reach that coverage
3 full cycles in TM5 with anta777 config is good (you can drop whatever config you like in the folder, it's just a .cfg file, but anta777 Extreme is generally liked), will be about 4 ish hours
I would usually then come back to P95 Large and run it for a hour or so to test IF, but it's just 3600 so you're probably fine. But I'm lazy now haven't used large FFT much, Ryzen 5000 is much less temperamental than Ryzen 3000, and on the Ryzen 4000 APUs the iGPU is _the _primary IF stress tester and even harder memtester than HCI or TM5 so


----------



## RealKGB (Jul 9, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Better than CJR and on par with 4Gb E-die and DJR is a very bold claim indeed. But according to the guide, Nanya doesn't scale tRCD, tRP or tRFC, so still v impressed you managed 16-16-16.


I didn't even know the company existed until I got the kit, looked at the dies, was like "wait the dies are from who??", Googled them, and got an answer "We make RAM and other things."

I'm amazed I got the timings I did too; I first went for frequency and hit a wall at 3333, though I didn't mess with the IMC voltage at all (left at 1.1). After I landed on 3333 I just sent the timings down bit by but until I landed at 16-16-16 since I didn't think I should put the other timings lower than the CAS latency, though if it's fine I may shoot for lower after I do attempt for 3400.
I'm not touching CPU overclocking since PBO is doing its job.

Also, what's good software for really stressing memory? I used memtest86 to test for stability but I'm not sure if there's anything better.


----------



## freeagent (Jul 18, 2021)

Anyone have to RMA their Zen 3 CPU recently? My 5900X will not pass TM5 even @ stock. Going to put my 5600X in shortly and see what happens.

So far, my observations..

CPU has been acting a little weird. From the start, I noticed memory speed had almost no impact on latency.. ok not the end of the world. Since I ordered a new board for a spare CPU, I pulled out a pair of my ram. Now running 2x8.. Was testing known speeds and timings, but was failing within minutes. I let it run @ full stock, and it still threw errors within minutes. Uh-oh. This morning woke up to errors @ stock. So I had my cooler off and CPU's cleaned and swapped in under 15 minutes.. not bad.. anyways I started testing and she was passing. My ram is fine, because I honestly was hoping it was just that. Ram is good, board is good, 5600x is good, 5900x is bad 

I didn't take a screen of the failures from the other CPU. But errors started within 7 minutes. Bummer dude. Just running it was fine, but load up something like that and it would fail.






Edit:

I have initiated the RMA.

Edit again:

Ok I plugged it back in in the hopes that it was just a weird uefi bug.. it just passed the spot it errored at.. ffs lol..

Last edit!

IDKWTF to say, really. Its working just fine again. I would not run for more than 7 minutes, sometimes less. I honestly thought my CPU was done. Never had one go before.. so I don't know what its like when they are on the way out lol..


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 18, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Anyone have to RMA their Zen 3 CPU recently? My 5900X will not pass TM5 even @ stock. Going to put my 5600X in shortly and see what happens.
> 
> So far, my observations..
> 
> ...



I think ram is more finnicky then we give it credit for... and it has less to do with your CPU.  so prob would be better off using prime 95 cpu only test to truly test overnight cpu issues.  or aida64 system stability test


----------



## freeagent (Jul 18, 2021)

It was really weird. dropping in the other CPU seemed to fix whatever was going on. But when it failed TM5 @ stock that was it for me I was frustrated. I do have it running properly now.. and I'm not going to fuck with it for awhile.. I am running a beta bios, maybe that had something to do with it.. I really don't know what to say and I do feel kind of silly. But I was working on it for 6 hours at that point and my brain was a waffle.

She's running good, this is the fastest single core score I have been able to pump out with this thing.. someone with a 5800X topped me so I will have to try harder 

freeagent`s 3DMark CPU PROFILE 1 THREAD score: 1010 marks with a Ryzen 9 5900X (hwbot.org)


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 19, 2021)

does anyone know the equivalency of the ps5 zen cpu to its modern day cpu? speaking cpu only not the gpu built in...

is it comparble to a 5800x or 3700x?


----------



## Mussels (Jul 19, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> does anyone know the equivalency of the ps5 zen cpu to its modern day cpu? speaking cpu only not the gpu built in...
> 
> is it comparble to a 5800x or 3700x?


dont we know that from the weird APU kits?
This AMD mini PC kit is likely made out of b0rked PS5 chips | PC Gamer
4700s seems to tag behind the 3700x, close single threaded and worse multi


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 19, 2021)

Mussels said:


> dont we know that from the weird APU kits?
> This AMD mini PC kit is likely made out of b0rked PS5 chips | PC Gamer
> 4700s seems to tag behind the 3700x, close single threaded and worse multi




I guess I just don't understand how some games can run at 4k 120hz on ps5 but a higher end 5600x rx 6800 pc like i used to own can't do 4k 120hz in similar games...


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 19, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I guess I just don't understand how some games can run at 4k 120hz on ps5 but a higher end 5600x rx 6800 pc like i used to own can't do 4k 120hz in similar games...



I heard after the leaked dieshots of the PS5 SOC ppl said it had 8MB L3 and 4MB L2? That would make it essentially an underclocked 4750G(E) tacked onto a RDNA GPU, probably why it'll never catch up to mainstream desktop Zen 2 on IPC despite being "Zen 2" which Renoir technically still is. Any Zen 3 Vermeer or Cezanne would leave it in the dust, even if clocked at 3.5GHz.

Also consoles are basically just upscaling everything, it's not even close to actual 4k120Hz


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 19, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I heard after the leaked dieshots of the PS5 SOC ppl said it had 8MB L3 and 4MB L2? That would make it essentially an underclocked 4750G(E) tacked onto a RDNA GPU, probably why it'll never catch up to mainstream desktop Zen 2 on IPC despite being "Zen 2" which Renoir technically still is. Any Zen 3 Vermeer or Cezanne would leave it in the dust, even if clocked at 3.5GHz.
> 
> Also consoles are basically just upscaling everything, it's not even close to actual 4k120Hz



ah ok, I actually didn't know about the upscaling stuff. Interesting.  PC to the moon boys!!!


----------



## Mussels (Jul 19, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I guess I just don't understand how some games can run at 4k 120hz on ps5 but a higher end 5600x rx 6800 pc like i used to own can't do 4k 120hz in similar games...


cause they run lower settings on the console variants, and they've always fudged the resolution... it's never been 4K 120hz, it's been 720p-1080p 120Hz, with the 2D elements rendered in 4K on top


----------



## QuietBob (Jul 19, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> does anyone know the equivalency of the ps5 zen cpu to its modern day cpu? speaking cpu only not the gpu built in...


I think we can assume that the 4700S desktop kit is essentially a defective PS5 motherboard. Following AMD's naming convention, that CPU would belong to the Ryzen 4000 APU series, which uses Zen 2 cores. The 4000's architecture is Renoir, which itself is a refresh of Matisse, the original Zen 2 Ryzen desktop line.

The PS5 CPU is an 8c/16t SKU that runs at "up to 3.5 GHz", which is most likely its highest clock in low threaded scenarios. Now the slowest octa core CPU of the desktop 4000 APU line is the 4700GE/4750GE, which boosts to 4.3 GHz. So, the PS5 part would be significantly slower than that.

@tabascosauz have you tested the 4750G eventually? I'd be curious to know its boost behavior in games.



lynx29 said:


> I guess I just don't understand how some games can run at 4k 120hz on ps5 but a higher end 5600x rx 6800 pc like i used to own can't do 4k 120hz in similar games...


Console games are heavily optimized for a specific architecture. Many use dynamic resolution to avoid bottlenecks. They also use a unique mix of graphics/quality settings to achieve optimal performance under most conditions. These factors cannot be easily replicated on a PC. This is why we cannot directly compare game performance across different platforms, even if they utilize the same underlying tech.


----------



## GerKNG (Jul 19, 2021)

QuietBob said:


> These factors cannot be easily replicated on a PC


just try to match the graphics settings on a compareable PC and as long as the game is not totally unoptimized you have the same or even more performance (digital foundry and other benchmark channels tested this a lot)


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 19, 2021)

QuietBob said:


> I think we can assume that the 4700S desktop kit is essentially a defective PS5 motherboard. Following AMD's naming convention, that CPU would belong to the Ryzen 4000 APU series, which uses Zen 2 cores. The 4000's architecture is Renoir, which itself is a refresh of Matisse, the original Zen 2 Ryzen desktop line.
> 
> @tabascosauz have you tested the 4750G eventually? I'd be curious to know its boost behavior in games.



Not quite, I have the 4650G, the 8-core was and still is obscenely expensive for what it offers. Works the same way though, being the APU branch of Zen 2 it works similarly to Matisse, ie. lots of scheduler load migration all over the place, low 4.1-4.2GHz all-core, etc. No issues with hitting rated boost in games, because all Renoir chips are late 7nm production same as ~2020 production Matisse, unlike the dumpster fire 2019 Matisse CPUs.

The 4600G and 4650G get +100MHz "free" boost over what they're rated, you'll might see 4.3GHz on ST boost. Seems like the 4750G gets about +50MHz free boost to about 4.45GHz. It'll be interesting to see if this behaviour continues with 5600G, but I doubt AMD will make such an oversight with a non-Pro retail CPU.

The 4700S doesn't look too interesting aside from some lukewarm interest over its GDDR6. No iGPU, [probably] poorly binned cores, no mem OC, basically a less interesting Renoir with a lot of dead silicon.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 19, 2021)

Mussels said:


> cause they run lower settings on the console variants, and they've always fudged the resolution... it's never been 4K 120hz, it's been 720p-1080p 120Hz, with the 2D elements rendered in 4K on top



I did not know this at all.  lmao.

wow.  ok... sticking with PC.


----------



## QuietBob (Jul 19, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Not quite, I have the 4650G, the 8-core was and still is obscenely expensive for what it offers. Works the same way though, being the APU branch of Zen 2 it works similarly to Matisse, ie. lots of scheduler load migration all over the place, low 4.1-4.2GHz all-core, etc. No issues with hitting rated boost in games


Thanks for getting back! Does it also hit 4.1-4.2 all core when the integrated GPU is being fully utilized? And does the GPU clock down when all cores are loaded, to stay within the power envelope?


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 19, 2021)

QuietBob said:


> Thanks for getting back! Does it also hit 4.1-4.2 all core when the integrated GPU is being fully utilized? And does the GPU clock down when all cores are loaded, to stay within the power envelope?



I haven't monitored it too much since I use it on my TV. At stock CPU, 2275MHz iGPU @ 1.2V and 2100MHz IF @ 1.2V, whole package power is still just 55-65W max. So if PPT is where it should be, not even close. Even heavily OC'd iGPU draws something like 40W out of that in games, Valley and Fire Strike. ST CPU boost never downclocks in game and the GPU power limit flags never come up.

Reviewers like Toms seem to be fixated on pushing unrealistic (and unsafe) static CPU OC while running Furmark and CPU tests at the same time to test the "power budget" which is pretty hilarious.

I guess it's still better than being HWUB or GN and "reviewing" a Cezanne APU with 3200CL14. "Oh but normal people don't buy 4000 Viper Steels" - normal people also don't buy 3200CL14 which is more expensive than 4400 Viper Steels, and knowledgeable reviewers understand the importance of bandwidth


----------



## freeagent (Jul 19, 2021)

Hella bandwidth at 2100IF lol :drool:


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 19, 2021)

I just got my board for my 5900x build. So ill be fairly active in this thread trying to dial stuff in. 

X570S Aorus Master...

I got some Teamgroup Xtreems 2x16 3600 14-15-15-35 memory to slap into it.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 19, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> I just got my board for my 5900x build. So ill be fairly active in this thread trying to dial stuff in.
> 
> X570S Aorus Master...
> 
> ...



or just run it at stock with xmp enabled.  probably won't notice any difference in real world gaming regardless.

i regret tinkering so much, instead of gaming.  i mean true its enjoyable, but on same hand, main reason for this stuff is to game.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 19, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> or just run it at stock with xmp enabled.  probably won't notice any difference in real world gaming regardless.
> 
> i regret tinkering so much, instead of gaming.  i mean true its enjoyable, but on same hand, main reason for this stuff is to game.


But that's no fun.... lmao


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 19, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> I just got my board for my 5900x build. So ill be fairly active in this thread trying to dial stuff in.
> 
> X570S Aorus Master...
> 
> I got some Teamgroup Xtreems 2x16 3600 14-15-15-35 memory to slap into it.



That's some sexy hardware. I've got a Unify-X and G.skill 2x16 3600/14-15-15 upgrade arrivfing this week for my 5900X, looks like we'll be working together   chances are you have a better 5900X than I do


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 19, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> That's some sexy hardware. I've got a Unify-X and G.skill 2x16 3600/14-15-15 upgrade arrivfing this week for my 5900X, looks like we'll be working together   chances are you have a better 5900X than I do



I really wanted to wait for the MSI X570S Unify-X MAX, but I had no idea how long of a wait that would be, so I bit the bullet and got this one. MSI also needs to catch the f up and put external temp sensor ports on their AMD boards. Its one of the main reasons I got this Aorus Master other than it being sexy as hell with the real fin heatsinks for the VRM.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 19, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I did not know this at all.  lmao.
> 
> wow.  ok... sticking with PC.


go look at a third person console game and look at the elements that are clear and crisp

It's the UI, and the characters clothing, hair and ass in front of your face. Everything else is blurry and high movement so you dont focus on it. (DoF, motion blur, etc)


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 20, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> I really wanted to wait for the MSI X570S Unify-X MAX, but I had no idea how long of a wait that would be, so I bit the bullet and got this one. MSI also needs to catch the f up and put external temp sensor ports on their AMD boards. Its one of the main reasons I got this Aorus Master other than it being sexy as hell with the real fin heatsinks for the VRM.



If you're not mem OCing past IF desync, I don't think the Master offers any less capability and has better features? Although I'm confused as to why they left out the dual BIOS this time, the X570 Master dual BIOS with dip switches works fine.

Here the B550 Master and Unify-X are the cheapest non-garbage boards with a POST code and both sit at $349cad, so considering the idiotic auto dual bios and lack of a chipset M.2 on the B550 Master it was an easy choice. MSI BIOS gonna take some getting used to though, not a fan of it.

Are you planning on putting a temp probe in the socket?


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 20, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> If you're not mem OCing past IF desync, I don't think the Master offers any less capability and has better features? Although I'm confused as to why they left out the dual BIOS this time, the X570 Master dual BIOS with dip switches works fine.
> 
> Here the B550 Master and Unify-X are the cheapest non-garbage boards with a POST code and both sit at $349cad, so considering the idiotic auto dual bios and lack of a chipset M.2 on the B550 Master it was an easy choice. MSI BIOS gonna take some getting used to though, not a fan of it.
> 
> Are you planning on putting a temp probe in the socket?



No, its to run a temp probe fitting in my hardline loop to run the fans off of water temp rather than component temp. Its a new way of doing things within the watercooling enthusiast community. It makes it so fans don't adjust suddenly to even the smallest CPU temp change, so makes for a quieter system ultimately.

Id like to maybe run 3800 at tightest timings I can get within reason.


----------



## freeagent (Jul 20, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Id like to maybe run 3800 at tightest timings I can get within reason.


Honestly, in Aida64 when looking at reads, writes, and copies.. there is only about 10k difference between 3200 and 3800.. not much really..


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 20, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Honestly, in Aida64 when looking at reads, writes, and copies.. there is only about 10k difference between 3200 and 3800.. not much really..



That's a fairly decent jump considering the numbers that you can get. 40k to 50k is a 20% boost.

Just ordered these cables for the build:


----------



## freeagent (Jul 20, 2021)

Well since you put it like that it doesn't seem to be that bad


----------



## thesmokingman (Jul 20, 2021)

I was messing around with my 5900x to reduce the power because it is a bit warmer now ambient wise with summer and all. I enabled ecomode for the hell of it. Then ran R20. It scored 8300 and change.Regular oc score is 8800 and change. I noticed my old 3900xt balls out score of 7900 and change. Lmao even limited to 65w the 5900x is still a healthy clip faster.


----------



## freeagent (Jul 22, 2021)

I have a guy coming to pick up my 5900X today. I want 2000 FCLK.. but not gonna happen with that CPU, it doesn’t really like 1800 much these days.. I was considering buying another 5900X, or even a 5800X.. they are fairly cheap now compared to a few months ago. Or should I just get the 5950 and call it a day? I am totally ok with a 5600X lol.. people say that they wouldn't buy 6 cores these days.. but they are fast as fuck  boi, if you aren’t trying to make money from it.

Edit:

I will probably just go with a 5800X.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 22, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I have a guy coming to pick up my 5900X today. I want 2000 FCLK.. but not gonna happen with that CPU, it doesn’t really like 1800 much these days.. I was considering buying another 5900X, or even a 5800X.. they are fairly cheap now compared to a few months ago. Or should I just get the 5950 and call it a day? I am totally ok with a 5600X lol.. people say that they wouldn't buy 6 cores these days.. but they are fast as fuck  boi, if you aren’t trying to make money from it.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> I will probably just go with a 5800X.


Kind of a shitty 5900x it seems. When did you get it. Im hoping mine can at least do 1800fclk since thats basically stock for my 3600 memory.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 22, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I have a guy coming to pick up my 5900X today. I want 2000 FCLK.. but not gonna happen with that CPU, it doesn’t really like 1800 much these days.. I was considering buying another 5900X, or even a 5800X.. they are fairly cheap now compared to a few months ago. Or should I just get the 5950 and call it a day? I am totally ok with a 5600X lol.. people say that they wouldn't buy 6 cores these days.. but they are fast as fuck  boi, if you aren’t trying to make money from it.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> I will probably just go with a 5800X.



@R-T-B says 5800x is best because the latency is better on a single ccx die.  that's also why it runs hotter. interesting though.


----------



## freeagent (Jul 22, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Kind of a shitty 5900x it seems. When did you get it. Im hoping mine can at least do 1800fclk since thats basically stock for my 3600 memory.


It did to 1900 at one point, but now it struggles at the top. AMD says it’s ok. I think I tore the infinity fabric  It runs just fine if you aren’t overclocking fclk too hard. It still boosts right to the tippy top. I bought it maybe 2 months ago. I honestly thought it was my ram at first, but it’s flying on my 6 core. It will run 1900 but TM5 fails fairly quick. It benches just fine though so I don’t know what to make of it. AMD said it’s ok and denied RMA so. I checked the pins, socket area, everything looks mint. Something had always been a little off with it I think. The only thing I have to compare is my 5600x..

I really don’t know what to make of it.

Edit:

I think this guy probably won’t show up since he is late. I’m not heart broken though, it’s still a great CPU, it’s just not doing what I want it to


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 22, 2021)

freeagent said:


> It did to 1900 at one point, but now it struggles at the top. AMD says it’s ok. I think I tore the infinity fabric  It runs just fine if you aren’t overclocking fclk too hard. It still boosts right to the tippy top. I bought it maybe 2 months ago. I honestly thought it was my ram at first, but it’s flying on my 6 core. It will run 1900 but TM5 fails fairly quick. It benches just fine though so I don’t know what to make of it. AMD said it’s ok and denied RMA so. I checked the pins, socket area, everything looks mint. Something had always been a little off with it I think. The only thing I have to compare is my 5600x..
> 
> I really don’t know what to make of it.
> 
> ...



could be the mobo/ram holding you back, how do you know its the CPU?  for example even if you had a $400 mobo, no two $400 mobo's are the same.  YMMV


----------



## freeagent (Jul 22, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> could be the mobo/ram holding you back, how do you know its the CPU?  for example even if you had a $400 mobo, no two $400 mobo's are the same.  YMMV


Because nothing has changed in months, the ram is good board seems good. I honestly have a hard time believing I hurt it. I am not ham handed with my overclocks.

I will give him another hour before I plug it in for the third time in a couple of days lol..

Well.. my new board came, the buyer bailed since he is more than an hour late, so I’m going to build another system. I am going to stick my 5900x back in and not be concerned I can’t run it as fast as I want. It is still an awesome cpu. Who knows maybe she will figure herself out.. it pains me to not be able to say what is wrong other than something lol..


----------



## toilet pepper (Jul 22, 2021)

My 5800x does not like my RAM. I tested the RAM with the same motherboard and I got my R5-3600 to 1900FCLK and 3800 16-16-16-32 timings. All I did for that was use and follow DRAM calculator. When I switched to the 5800x it won't work with the same timings and I even tried lowering it to 1800fclk and it wouldnt work as well. I've sepnt hours just to get it right and I eventually gave up.

Loaded XMP and manually edited some sub-timmings and here is what I have.







Here's the RAM info:


----------



## freeagent (Jul 22, 2021)

You guys are awesome, I just wanted to thank you for your support during these trying times 

TM5 is running @ 1800 flat 14s and a 34 and it has passed the point of failure by 2 minutes lol..

Side note:

My 9 year old is super happy his rig is getting an update from a 3770K @ 4500 with 12gb ram on a z77 oc formula to that little Asus, 5600X and 16gb 3200C14 lol.. he won’t have that ram for long though.

Also it is still running with no errors wtf. It took me 5 minutes to write this lol

Edit again:

No problems running high speed at 2T GDM off, problems at medium to high speed with 1T GDM on. Hm. Stock is fine too. Guess I was pointing my finger at the wrong component..


----------



## Mussels (Jul 23, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> @R-T-B says 5800x is best because the latency is better on a single ccx die.  that's also why it runs hotter. interesting though.


the hotter is due to heat density, which is a side effect of single CCX and 8 core (the 5600x is single CCX and low latency, but doesnt have the heat issue)

I keep telling people how the 5600x is undervalued, you could power a 3090 with that and not notice for gaming


----------



## freeagent (Jul 23, 2021)

The 5600X is such a nice CPU. The only thing that would make it better is giving it the ability to rock 5GHz. Because it would literally sit there all day at top clocks. It is such a treat to use, and it’s easy to cool.


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (Jul 23, 2021)

freeagent said:


> The 5600X is such a nice CPU. The only thing that would make it better is giving it the ability to rock 5GHz. Because it would literally sit there all day at top clocks. It is such a treat to use, and it’s easy to cool.



Get yoself a good 5800x and disable 2 cores.  

Or disable one CCD on your 5900x and let er rip.

*This post may or may not be sponsored by Margaritas


----------



## freeagent (Jul 23, 2021)

I didn't think of disabling a CCD.. hmm..


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 23, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> @R-T-B says 5800x is best because the latency is better on a single ccx die.  that's also why it runs hotter. interesting though.


I dunno about best, it was best for my situation.  It's pretty variable though depending on what you are doing.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Jul 23, 2021)

I just picked up a 5600x locally, but strangely the SSD isn't showing in the "My Pc" but's in the Task manager >.> 
so many BIOS options O.O! I think I know what did though.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 23, 2021)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> I just picked up a 5600x locally, but strangely the SSD isn't showing in the "My Pc" but's in the Task manager >.>
> so many BIOS options O.O! I think I know what did though.



That's a windows bug. I had that too and didnt do a single change to my system.


----------



## Nordic (Jul 24, 2021)

I am upgrading from a 3900x to a 5950x. The new cpu should be here tomorrow. Is there anything I should know?


----------



## freeagent (Jul 24, 2021)

Nordic said:


> Is there anything I should know?


Be prepared to be blown away


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 24, 2021)

Nordic said:


> I am upgrading from a 3900x to a 5950x. The new cpu should be here tomorrow. Is there anything I should know?



Stock to stock it should run much cooler than the 3900X in MT? ST can be hotter in games though. Do use the best paste you have on hand, though. Between the time I've spent with this 5900X on MX-4, NT-H1, and NT-H2, paste might help reduce some of the per-core temp spikes under high ST boost.

Curve optimizer is a nice feature but it's a serious bitch to work out the correct way on the 2CCD CPUs. Too many cores. Might have to spend a lot of time testing if you want an actually stable curve tailored for every core. You can gain a bit of MT perf by bringing the poorer quality cores up to say -15 to -30 offset, gains in ST perf will require a well-binned CPU.

As long as you're on AGESA 1200 or later, shouldn't be missing out on any performance.


----------



## Calmmo (Jul 24, 2021)

Nordic said:


> I am upgrading from a 3900x to a 5950x. The new cpu should be here tomorrow. Is there anything I should know?



My experience going from 3900x to 5900x was.. day to day barely noticable, heavy MT (so.. benchmarks) much cooler up to ~10c, but light workloads like games run significantly hotter than before. (which is why you kinda want to undervolt since amd was very agressive with their 5000 voltage curve)


----------



## freeagent (Jul 24, 2021)

I almost sold my 5900X to buy a 5950X.. I chickened out after the buyer bailed and I pulled my ad.. 

I don't want to say they run hot, they really don't.. but when you load them up with real work things get.. interesting.. the challenge is there for sure to keep it cool. Even more so when you enable PBO. Those CCD's man.. I almost bought a 5800X like 5 times just to see if they are really as hot as people say.. but I already have a 5600X and that thing is super easy to cool.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 24, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I almost sold my 5900X to buy a 5950X.. I chickened out after the buyer bailed and I pulled my ad..
> 
> I don't want to say they run hot, they really don't.. but when you load them up with real work things get.. interesting.. the challenge is there for sure to keep it cool. Even more so when you enable PBO. Those CCD's man.. I almost bought a 5800X like 5 times just to see if they are really as hot as people say.. but I already have a 5600X and that thing is super easy to cool.


My Dual 360 rad custom loop should make easy work of this 5900x


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 24, 2021)

So about the 3600CL14...it does 3600 flat 14s at 1.42V completely stable. The issue isn't that it does any of that. The real news is that dual rank B-die seems to have made MW2019 exponentially smoother, and given the night/day difference it is anything but placebo:

MW2019: Previously, I could reduce the amount of microstuttering by running minimal background programs, but never eliminate it. They were always too subtle to be picked up by LatencyMon.
MW2019: Sometimes the game would just decide to r/fuckyouinparticular and begin stuttering and skipping frames upon initiating very specific actions (e.g. firing the first bullet in a mag, sliding, mantling/vaulting, racking the bolt during the draw animation of a new picked up weapon, popping the smoke grenade for weapon drop). Whenever the weirdly routine stuttering happened, I always got the orange packet loss indicator in the left side of the screen, despite it being an offline match against bots. LatencyMon never picked that up either.
I've tried half a billion "fixes" in the last two years, none of them did anything.

Funny thing is, this behaviour persisted across the 3700X, 4650G and 5900X, through numerous game updates, Geforce driver versions, and clean installed Windows versions.

Since 3000 launch I was always under the impression that as long as you get to 3600CL16, B-die doesn't really matter, and CJR/DJR happens to punch above its weight compared to Micron. Apparently I was wrong? In the past 2 years on the CJR kit, I've been to 3600CL17 XMP, 3600CL18 XMP (GDM), my 3600CL16 stable profile, my 3733CL16 stable profile. Nothing made a difference, until I switched to this kit.

So unless my 3 different boards were all equally responsible for poor game experience but the Unify-X magically isn't, I'm probably going to have to pin it on the CJR. It'd be interesting to test my single rank B-die as well, but I'm lazy.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 24, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> So about the 3600CL14...it does 3600 flat 14s at 1.42V completely stable. The issue isn't that it does any of that. The real news is that dual rank B-die seems to have made MW2019 exponentially smoother, and given the night/day difference it is anything but placebo:
> 
> MW2019: Previously, I could reduce the amount of microstuttering by running minimal background programs, but never eliminate it. They were always too subtle to be picked up by LatencyMon.
> MW2019: Sometimes the game would just decide to r/fuckyouinparticular and begin stuttering and skipping frames upon initiating very specific actions (e.g. firing the first bullet in a mag, sliding, mantling/vaulting, racking the bolt during the draw animation of a new picked up weapon, popping the smoke grenade for weapon drop). Whenever the weirdly routine stuttering happened, I always got the orange packet loss indicator in the left side of the screen, despite it being an offline match against bots. LatencyMon never picked that up either.
> ...


Damn thats pretty sweet. Wonder if that latency can get closer to 50-52?

I definitely want to try for flat 14 at 3600 on my dual rank B-die kit.


----------



## freeagent (Jul 24, 2021)

That's pretty sweet man! I need 1.475 for 3600-3666  @ 4x8 14-14-14-34

Still not sure what my issue was but it seems fine again.. what a weirdo.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 25, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Damn thats pretty sweet. Wonder if that latency can get closer to 50-52?
> 
> I definitely want to try for flat 14 at 3600 on my dual rank B-die kit.





freeagent said:


> That's pretty sweet man! I need 1.475 for 3600-3666  @ 4x8 14-14-14-34
> 
> Still not sure what my issue was but it seems fine again.. what a weirdo.



I've seen other people close to that range with 3800CL14. I'm not personally gonna push that hard, on release I'll have a 5600G for that. Looking forward to some Intel-level latency on that chip, monolithic is something like 7ns advantage, then Zen 3 is another 7-10ns on top.

Here's a quick 3800CL14 but with a bit high tRC, latency probably just AIDA shenanigans:



But AIDA is so pepega that I've basically stopped using it for gauging performance, it takes so long to bench 2CCD CPUs, and I can get anywhere between 56.5-58ns depending on the time of day on 3600CL14. Completely stable so that's not the problem, AIDA is just a pepega.

Looks like Genshin Impact and Insurgency Sandstorm are also seeing similar improvement in frame consistency, just not quite as drastic as MW2019, but still a very welcome improvement.


----------



## freeagent (Jul 25, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I've seen other people close to that range with 3800CL14


Yeah thats the black and whites.. they prefer 14-15-15. They need an extra .025v compared to my royals for the flat stuff.. and just about everything else.


----------



## mama (Jul 25, 2021)

Just an observation from a relative novice: the coexistence of RyzenMaster and BIOS settings when tuning can be a bit iffy.  When playing with PPT, TDC and EDC settings and PBO2 etc I found it best to input values to the BIOS and remove RyzenMaster entirely to ensure the settings were correct.  I was noticing weirdly high values to the ones I had put in the BIOS.  When I removed RyzenMaster is resolved. Admittedly the difficulties I had may be down to the MSI BIOS setup.


----------



## freeagent (Jul 25, 2021)

I used Ryzen Master twice when I first moved to AM4 with a 3600XT.. not my favorite piece of software.. I just learned how to do it in the bios, its way easier. Only time I can see it helping is when you are testing per core.. might be a bit of a time saver.

Okay! So I had my system apart, and I think I found the cause of all of my issues. I think there was something throwing some resistance into the system. Mainly my fan controller. I did have a screen or two showing my 5v which normally shows 5.06 was down to 4.998, and my 12v which is normally at 12.172 was at 12.072. Not a big deal right? It must have been. I am running 1800 14-15-15-35 1.45v. It would have thrown errors after 7 minutes, and if that didn't happen it would have been 11 minutes.. it was like clockwork. Now the rails are tight, and she is spooling  up again. Yay 






Edit:

Looks like flat 14s are fine at 1800 1.45v. Weird. I also noticed when running TM5 at 1866fclk it will shave 50-100MHz off the core and effective clock.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 25, 2021)

oof, if only I had seen this memory when i bought the teamgroup stuff. Hoping i can dial in the teamgroup stuff to match those Royal Elites. 

G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Elite Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C14D-32GTESA - Newegg.com


----------



## freeagent (Jul 25, 2021)

500 bucks


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 25, 2021)

freeagent said:


> 500 bucks


$500? I see $399 if its sold by Newegg and not a third party. but its out of stock.

What are people usually running for 2 sticks of dual rank for CR? 1 or 2?


----------



## freeagent (Jul 25, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> $500? I see $399 if its sold by Newegg and not a third party. but its out of stock.
> 
> What are people usually running for 2 sticks of dual rank for CR? 1 or 2?




I am in Canada and the link opened in my app


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 25, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> oof, if only I had seen this memory when i bought the teamgroup stuff. Hoping i can dial in the teamgroup stuff to match those Royal Elites.
> 
> G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Elite Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C14D-32GTESA - Newegg.com



It's the same bin though. Are you just after the aesthetics? That's a hefty tax for the Royals heatspreader, same XMP Ripjaws/RGB/Neo/Royals should be binned the same. No reason why Team should be worse

If you can do flat 14 at 1.42V like mine I'd say you're doing pretty well for yourself

Awhile ago I tested GDM 1T vs plain 2T on both my 5900X and 4650G - I think 2T was slightly better in some benchmarks on my 4650G and worse latency on my 5900X. I'm just running GDM at the moment. It's a very minor difference.


----------



## freeagent (Jul 25, 2021)

1.45 is good for me, I just set 1.425 and about to let er rip hopefully she goes. 1T GDM..


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 25, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> It's the same bin though. Are you just after the aesthetics? That's a hefty tax for the Royals heatspreader, same XMP Ripjaws/RGB/Neo/Royals should be binned the same. No reason why Team should be worse
> 
> If you can do flat 14 at 1.42V like mine I'd say you're doing pretty well for yourself
> 
> Awhile ago I tested GDM 1T vs plain 2T on both my 5900X and 4650G - I think 2T was slightly better in some benchmarks on my 4650G and worse latency on my 5900X. I'm just running GDM at the moment. It's a very minor difference.



Yeah I suspect my Teamgroups are binned the same as most of these G. SKill kits considering they are their 14-15-15-35 1.45v kit.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 25, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Yeah I suspect my Teamgroups are binned the same as most of these G. SKill kits considering they are their 14-15-15-35 1.45v kit.



Quite honestly I should have taken the advice of others and saved $25 on the Ripjaws instead. Same bin, no need to run the bullshit RGB software at every bootup. I was just put off by some reviews on the Newegg page saying that the shitty Ripjaws heatspreader didn't make contact with half the chips on one side and G.skill CS response that temps of 56C were "normal". I guess I just let it get to me.

My final daily timings:




3733 didn't work out either. It was looking good until the Bus/Interconnect WHEAs started again. On one 3800 config I tried it was spitting WHEAs like new benjamins out of the Federal Treasury. The B-die is clearly capable (really tempted to pop in the APU right now to see what it can do), but CPU is garbage.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 25, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Quite honestly I should have taken the advice of others and saved $25 on the Ripjaws instead. Same bin, no need to run the bullshit RGB software at every bootup. I was just put off by some reviews on the Newegg page saying that the shitty Ripjaws heatspreader didn't make contact with half the chips on one side and G.skill CS response that temps of 56C were "normal". I guess I just let it get to me.
> 
> My final daily timings:
> 
> ...


Are there any rules for the voltage settings for Ryzen 5xxx?


----------



## freeagent (Jul 25, 2021)

For 1866 you might have to come up on your Vddg iod+ccd, as well as cldo vddp and soc.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 25, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Are there any rules for the voltage settings for Ryzen 5xxx?





freeagent said:


> For 1866 you might have to come up on your Vddg iod+ccd, as well as cldo vddp and soc.



You could try leaving it to the board to set. If WHEAs persist, VDDP 0.90-0.95V, VDDG-IOD up to 0.05V below VSOC, VDDG-CCD probably around 1.0V or less. 

That's the idea at least. Lately there's been more people recommending all 4 (VSOC, CCD, IOD, VDDP) as low as possible, like sub-0.9V for VDDP, both VDDGs below 1.0V. But going higher hasn't helped me and neither has going lower.

I'm gonna try board defaults next - it sets both VDDGs to 1.1V. Which makes zero sense as VSOC is 1.1V and theoretically the VDDGs must be at least 0.04V less than VSOC as they derive from it. If all fails I'll bump VSOC a little to satisfy the rule. VDDP supposedly derives from VDIMM instead, not sure how that relationship works as I've never gone past 0.95V.


----------



## freeagent (Jul 25, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> But going higher hasn't helped me and neither has going lower


I just let the board handle it up to 1866, to get 1900 I have to adjust them slightly to get it stable. It’s really not much of an adjustment really. Just telling it what to actually set.. so it can make up its mind I guess.. with just a slight bump to keep the interconnects happy   but the big one for me is soc @ 1900. It doesn’t want to set more than 1.1v on its own when it needs 1.125v. Anything over 1900 fclk with my sample will probably never be stable. It throws whea’s right away. Streams them live


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 25, 2021)

freeagent said:


> It throws whea’s right away. Streams them live



its a bit like putting a stack of bills into the ATM and watching it count them and every second the number on the screen goes up, but instead of bank balance increasing your cpu is just steadily going to shit

I'll try higher VSOC we'll see what happens


----------



## freeagent (Jul 25, 2021)

Just an observation.. TM5 has been running for about an hour and a half now, and I have noticed overall cpu temps are down a bit running low vdimm of 1.425. It could just be in my head though. I could have sworn my black and whites needed more juice than my Royals, but it could have been the cpu.. since this is my third on this platform now.. and god knows how many different bios I have had. Probably 8-10 flashes already. Just like back in the tic tac bios days with the NF7-S


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 25, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Just an observation.. TM5 has been running for about an hour and a half now, and I have noticed overall cpu temps are down a bit running low vdimm of 1.425. It could just be in my head though. I could have sworn my black and whites needed more juice than my Royals, but it could have been the cpu.. since this is my third on this platform now.. and god knows how many different bios I have had. Probably 8-10 flashes already. Just like back in the tic tac bios days with the NF7-S



I really need to remember to stop relying so much on my C14S for airflow. Put a puny A9x14 next to the board and that knocked 6.5 degrees off the DIMMs during HCI, now under 45C

Things seem all right so far at 3800, probably erroring out earlier was either from hitting 50C or not enough VSOC (first time I ever saw error thrown in memtest at the same time as Bus/Interconnect in Windows).


----------



## freeagent (Jul 25, 2021)

Yup I agree, wow 50c really? Impressive  

Well it ran 3 passes at 1.425.. I missed the end because I was outside making sure my kids don't drown in the pool 

Action:






End


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 25, 2021)

So far stable up to 100% in HCI and no WHEAs in testing or games. 3800 14-15-15 @ 1.5V, 1.125V VSOC

I'll run a couple TM5, overnight HCI tonight, and keep an eye on the IF



There is still one thing I disagree with buildzoid on: running 4/4/16/4/8/10 is not free. I've 4 kits where 4/4/16/4/8/10 costs extra VDIMM to stabilize over 4/6/16/4/12/12 for negligible performance gain, usually 100-200mV. By contrast tRTP and tRFC each make a much bigger difference


----------



## freeagent (Jul 25, 2021)

Nice and tight


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 26, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> So far stable up to 100% in HCI and no WHEAs in testing or games. 3800 14-15-15 @ 1.5V, 1.125V VSOC
> 
> I'll run a couple TM5, overnight HCI tonight, and keep an eye on the IF
> 
> ...


3800 14-15-15 is sweet. Are you running GDM? I have no idea what it is, but sounds like people run it most of the time.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 26, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Yup I agree, wow 50c really? Impressive
> 
> Well it ran 3 passes at 1.425.. I missed the end because I was outside making sure my kids don't drown in the pool



Did you finally waterblock your dimms or am I missing something here?    How did they peak at only 33 in TM5? Even the CPU is getting up in the 70s like expected



MxPhenom 216 said:


> 3800 14-15-15 is sweet. Are you running GDM? I have no idea what it is, but sounds like people run it most of the time.



Geardown Mode, it's like a middle ground between 1T and 2T that doesn't exist on Intel. Theoretically it's like 1.5T when enabled but in reality probably closer to 2T. Both GDM and 2T are much more stable than pure 1T, so it's really personal preference between the two if you've tested and found little performance difference between the two.

edit: seems to matter a bit more to this kit than my others, i guess run gdm if stable


----------



## freeagent (Jul 26, 2021)

I think I can only do 3400 flat 14s 1T gdm off. It’s been awhile since I played with it.


tabascosauz said:


> Did you finally waterblock your dimms or am I missing something here?  How did they peak at only 33 in TM5? Even the CPU is getting up in the 70s like expected



This should explain it.. 

July 24, 2021 - YouTube

Edit:

Not sure why it sounds so quiet, not like the raw video.

Edit:

I set TM5 to run 6 passes over night @ 1900 flat 14s@ 1.525v and it failed with 10 errors. Its close. But I am not going to push.. temps were fine too. @ around 37c.


----------



## Nordic (Jul 27, 2021)

5950x installed!

AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16-Core Processor
CPU VID: 1133
CPU TEL: 1086
Max temperature: 65°
Energy efficient: 4.03
Your CPU is SILVER SAMPLE
Recomended CCX delta: 75
Theoretical maximum CCX delta: 100
Recomended values for overclocking (P1 profile):
Reference voltage: 1050 mV
Reference frequency: 4100 MHz
Recomended values for overclocking (P2 profile):
Reference voltage: 1250 mV
Reference frequency: 4450 MHz
Recomended values for undervolting:
Reference voltage: 1000 mV
Reference frequency: 4000 MHz


----------



## Tomgang (Jul 27, 2021)

Allright time has come to ask for advice. I´m new to overclock AMD Zen 3 CPU and i need a little help to let my 5950X stretch it´s legs full out with out being power limit.

The hardware we talk about is: Ryzen 9 5950X in a Asus Dark Hero X570 board with bios version 3401 and Noctua NH-D15 cooler. At the max power levels i can aget now, the CPU hovering at around 70C while stock is 50C bofh with full fan speed and read by ryzen master.

The problem is the EDC limit right now. I have tried different settings in bios. All depending on settings it is either the stock EDC limit of 140 amp, 200 amp max and i can´t get above it neither with ryzen master or in bios or it just sits a 0 amp with Cpu sems back to stock watt on the other two power limits despite they sit at 300 watt for PPT and 255 amp for TDC while EDC is 0 amp. So if i exsample set EDC in bios to 230 amp, ryzen master still shows 200 amp.

I have different image below of the different amp i can get in EDC. But what i seek is a way to by pass the maximum 200 amp EDC i can go to now, so the 5950X can go all out for some benchmark, if it´s
even possible.
Stock




200 amp EDC limit i can´t figure out to bypass and that limits my bench scores as i hit EDC limit at 100 %




Here it is with the 0 amp in EDC and the CPU seems to go back to run stock even throw the other limits are higher than stock


----------



## freeagent (Jul 27, 2021)

Maybe try to enable pbo advanced in bios and then go back to windows and try? I only used RM a few times because I didn’t like it.


----------



## Tomgang (Jul 27, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Maybe try to enable pbo advanced in bios and then go back to windows and try? I only used RM a few times because I didn’t like it.



That is all ready tried and dosent work. It set to advance right now.


----------



## freeagent (Jul 27, 2021)

What happens when you uninstall RM and just make your changes in bios?


----------



## Tomgang (Jul 27, 2021)

freeagent said:


> What happens when you uninstall RM and just make your changes in bios?


I think i have found the solution.

I all most forgot this motherboard party trick. The Dynamic OC switch.

EDIT: So here is a none power limited and fine tuned 5950X, what she can do on air cooling. CPU-z bench, Cinebench R20 and R23.


----------



## mama (Jul 28, 2021)

Tomgang said:


> Allright time has come to ask for advice. I´m new to overclock AMD Zen 3 CPU and i need a little help to let my 5950X stretch it´s legs full out with out being power limit.
> 
> The hardware we talk about is: Ryzen 9 5950X in a Asus Dark Hero X570 board with bios version 3401 and Noctua NH-D15 cooler. At the max power levels i can aget now, the CPU hovering at around 70C while stock is 50C bofh with full fan speed and read by ryzen master.
> 
> ...


See my comment above.  Either remove Ryzenmaster and input values to the BIOS or insert default values for the chip in BIOS and use Ryzenmaster.  Don't use both.


----------



## Tomgang (Jul 28, 2021)

mama said:


> See my comment above.  Either remove Ryzenmaster and input values to the BIOS or insert default values for the chip in BIOS and use Ryzenmaster.  Don't use both.


I have solved it. See just above you.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 3, 2021)

So whats the story on WHEAs? People on AMD forums seem to just disable the auto boost feature PBO etc. But that doesnt seem like a valid work around. Is it mostly memory related or us it a CPU arch issue?


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 3, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> So whats the story on WHEAs? People on AMD forums seem to just disable the auto boost feature PBO etc. But that doesnt seem like a valid work around. Is it mostly memory related or us it a CPU arch issue?



WHEA event 18: CPU issue (ie. dreaded cache hierarchy), bad board or bios providing insufficient idle Vcore, bad OC or undervolt (possibly? not personally seen this)

WHEA event 19: Infinity Fabric at its limit, insufficient VSOC, bad VDDP/VDDG settings

Lately I've seen some questionable statements floating around,I'm personally not a fan of "its just Ryzen things, just suppress the WHEAs/turn off WHEA reporting it's fine" because if it's unstable, it's delusional to think otherwise.

Cache hierarchy WHEA is probably an automatic RMA if updating BIOS /reverting OC can't fix. Bus/Interconnect you will see a lot if you push mem OC hard a lot, without desyncing IF.

Are you trying for 3800CL14 right now?


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 3, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> WHEA event 18: CPU issue (ie. dreaded cache hierarchy), bad board or bios providing insufficient idle Vcore, bad OC or undervolt (possibly? not personally seen this)
> 
> WHEA event 19: Infinity Fabric at its limit, insufficient VSOC, bad VDDP/VDDG settings
> 
> ...


No, not even gotten my rig really uo and running yet. Still working on cable management and then i need to pipe it up. But i did run it outside a case just to make sure it boots and i can install windows. I didnt change a thing in BIOS yet.

I plan on just doing 3600 14-14-14-34 initially before i dive into tweaking much more.

This Aorus master board is pretty sweet though. BIOS is pretty lookin. But my mouse is so damn slow in it.


----------



## Tomgang (Aug 3, 2021)

Just out of curiosity, what have other Ryzen 9 5950X owners achieved of max single and multi core clocks and at what voltage if manuel oc/tuned cores indevidual also with what cooling used?

For my part with air cooling. PBO i got a max single core boost of 5,15 GHz (above that, it´s diminishing returns) on 2-3 cores, rest hits 5.125 GHz or lower on CCD 1. CCD 2 seems to max out at 4.8 GHz no matter what core it is.
For manuel oc (not with individual core tuning), i got an all core clock of 4.65 GHz at 1,375 volt (tried 4.675 GHz and that was not stable. Cinebench run failed second round) and hitting 84C, so my cooling is on it´s max with that and why i did not puch it further. Stock it hits 55C on all core load.

Cinebench R23 stock




Cinebench R20/R23 with max single core boost of 5.15 GHz and manuel overclock with all cores locked at 4.65 GHz


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 3, 2021)

Could someone provide me a rundown of all the different voltage settings that are most critical for these chips. First AMD rig so im not familiar with them. Usually ROG or someone has a article written on this stuff but cant seem to find one.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 3, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Could someone provide me a rundown of all the different voltage settings that are most critical for these chips. First AMD rig so im not familiar with them. Usually ROG or someone has a article written on this stuff but cant seem to find one.



Don't directly mess with Vcore unless you do all-core OC, which isn't exactly advisable for daily on 2CCD CPUs anyways. And Curve Optimizer is worked out on an individual basis.

If it's not unstable/no WHEAs, no need to mess with any voltages. 
If the IF is crapping out at higher speeds, add a bit more VSOC, just stay below 1.2V (probably below 1.15V I'd say).
If you still can't get it to stabilize without WHEAs say 1.15V VSOC at 3800, then you can try working with VDDP/VDDG. But they're temperamental, there's no one that can tell you exactly what will work for your setup, and cross that bridge when you ever get to it. Gigabyte is generally not bad at it.
VTTDDR don't need to touch unless you're going over 1.6V VDIMM, and you will not be running a daily mem OC there.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 3, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Don't directly mess with Vcore unless you do all-core OC, which isn't exactly advisable for daily on 2CCD CPUs anyways. And Curve Optimizer is worked out on an individual basis.
> 
> If it's not unstable/no WHEAs, no need to mess with any voltages.
> If the IF is crapping out at higher speeds, add a bit more VSOC, just stay below 1.2V (probably below 1.15V I'd say).
> ...


Is there an equivalent to Intels VCCSA (system agent) voltage on AMD? Sounds like maybe its VSoc?


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 3, 2021)

I never had a single WHEA related error on my old Zen rig. What in the heck are you all doing to that poor silicon.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 4, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I never had a single WHEA related error on my old Zen rig. What in the heck are you all doing to that poor silicon.


It sounds like it happens more on Ryzen 5000.


----------



## Cheese_On_tsaot (Aug 4, 2021)

Ryzen 5600x + X570 Aorus Elite, no issues.
5700 XT Aorus from Gigabyte, sold it months back.


Ryzen 5600X
Arctic Cooler Freezer 34 Esports Duo
16GB Corsair LPX 3000
Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite
MSI Ventus OC RTX 2060
Super Flower Leadex III 
WD Blue 1TB M.2
Crucial BX500 1TB
PNY CS900 120GB
WD RED 8TB
WD Green 500GB
Logitech G305
Akko Ocen Star 3084 SP

Gigabyte M27Q 170hz QHD IPS

BC 96KHZ/24-bit DAC
Phillips Fidelio X2HR + custom pads
Presonus Eris 3.5 monitors


----------



## mama (Aug 4, 2021)

Tomgang said:


> Just out of curiosity, what have other Ryzen 9 5950X owners achieved of max single and multi core clocks and at what voltage if manuel oc/tuned cores indevidual also with what cooling used?
> 
> For my part with air cooling. PBO i got a max single core boost of 5,15 GHz (above that, it´s diminishing returns) on 2-3 cores, rest hits 5.125 GHz or lower on CCD 1. CCD 2 seems to max out at 4.8 GHz no matter what core it is.
> For manuel oc (not with individual core tuning), i got an all core clock of 4.65 GHz at 1,375 volt (tried 4.675 GHz and that was not stable. Cinebench run failed second round) and hitting 84C, so my cooling is on it´s max with that and why i did not puch it further. Stock it hits 55C on all core load.
> ...


Just set up my system again.  Previous OC had boosts on some cores to 5.15Mhz but I thought something less shouty might be better.  PPT at 185, TDC 125 and EDC 175.  Set PBO2 to -5 on best and second best cores and -25 on the remainder.  No WHEA errors after several weeks use and feels solid with good temps.  I do note that one CCD runs lower clocks and runs cooler but I put that down to core variation.  Here are some screenshots if you want a comparison:


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 4, 2021)

mama said:


> Just set up my system again.  Previous OC had boosts on some cores to 5.15Mhz but I thought something less shouty might be better.  PPT at 185, TDC 125 and EDC 175.  Set PBO2 to -5 on best and second best cores and -25 on the remainder.  No WHEA errors after several weeks use and feels solid with good temps.  I do note that one CCD runs lower clocks and runs cooler but I put that down to core variation.  Here are some screenshots if you want a comparison:



v6.42 is really old for HWInfo. Get the latest version - I've completely removed CCD temps from my list because the latest HWInfo has per-core temperatures. No more forced to make generalized assumptions about an entire CCD due to one core.

Every chip seems different, my CCD2 draws less power and clocks lower but has a few cores that run hot. My preferred cores on CCD1 (0 and 1) run hot because they only do -2 and -7, but the other four run cool.

Once you look at the per-core temps, AMD's silicon variance is REALLY on display......Core 8 on mine is what, 13c hotter than some other cores on all-core......wasn't it like 10c delta on Intel is bad enough to warrant a delid/reapply LM or something......


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 6, 2021)

117 seconds on 3700X with DJR
101 seconds on 5900X with B-die
99 seconds on 4650G with B-die
94 seconds on 5600G with B-die


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 8, 2021)

finally made it past 10,000 memory score on GB3! not much of an achievement really but I remember BZ saying that all serious benchers should only call themselves such if they get over 10k soooooooo does that mean I can finally join the club now 

cherry on top, the profile is actually daily stable

PBO mobo limits, +200 override
-15 all cores CO
4333CL16 1:1
Vega 7 is still Vega 7 but holy hell these Zen 3 Cezanne cores are really kicking the shit out of Renoir, gained 3000 points in Fire Strike physics score over 4650G. 4200CL16 on Renoir was only ~9020 memory score.


----------



## freeagent (Aug 8, 2021)

Man that thing rips 

I am super impressed with my new fan setup. I should have tried this many many moons ago lol. It runs a tad warmer when its not doing anything, but that 5900X has a way of triggering those fans lol.. so at the top end its not much different than what I was running before, but on the bottom and midrange it is much easier on the ears. I just dealt with the noise before, but I am getting old for that stuff on a daily basis. Those fans ran everyday since 2006. Maybe that short I had messing with my system awhile ago was messing with my TY-143, because it is working just fine.. Pushes hard.. those new style Thermalright fans are actually really good. You should check em out. By you, I mean anyone who is reading my ramble. Kinda cheap.. sorta.. I wouldn't mind trying a smaller case.. like maybe that mini meshify.. I guess that would depend on how good that TUF B550M wifi is. I just got it out. Missed my first rma window because of my trip, printed the new label and got er out yesterday. Still pretty choked that no one at Newegg actually checked to see if the board worked or not. Open box right,. only makes sense.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 8, 2021)

freeagent said:


> It runs a tad warmer when its not doing anything, but that 5900X has a way of triggering those fans lol.. so at the top end its not much different than what I was running before, but on the bottom and midrange it is much easier on the ears. I just dealt with the noise before, but I am getting old for that stuff on a daily basis. Those fans ran everyday since 2006. Maybe that short I had messing with my system awhile ago was messing with my TY-143, because it is working just fine.. Pushes hard.. those new style Thermalright fans are actually really good. You should check em out. By you, I mean anyone who is reading my ramble. Kinda cheap.. sorta.. I wouldn't mind trying a smaller case.. like maybe that mini meshify..



I quite like the Meshify C you have. I enjoyed building a 3600 rig for someone else in it; it was very well put together for the price. Would keep the ATX one though, don't think Gene or even Strix-type boards are coming back to mATX, and the ATX isn't even that big anyways just heavy.

Have you messed with the step-up and step-down time for the fans in Q-fan? imo that's literally the biggest reason to buy an Asus board, being able to set like 5 seconds hysteresis for CPU fan. I kind of miss having such long set periods in MSI BIOS (only up to 1 sec) but they seem to be working some hysteresis magic in anyways


----------



## HD64G (Aug 8, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Quite honestly I should have taken the advice of others and saved $25 on the Ripjaws instead. Same bin, no need to run the bullshit RGB software at every bootup. I was just put off by some reviews on the Newegg page saying that the shitty Ripjaws heatspreader didn't make contact with half the chips on one side and G.skill CS response that temps of 56C were "normal". I guess I just let it get to me.
> 
> My final daily timings:
> 
> ...


Your VSOC is too low to OC your RAM so high and be stable. Give at least 1,1V there and set the RAM at auto voltage or up to 1,4V. My 5c.


----------



## Raven Rampkin (Aug 8, 2021)

Zen garden? Old oak tree still goin' strong! 
Got a bunch of RAM to play with, that I'm going thru, but this is the first kit I can say for sure I've squeezed everything out of - on the 1700 at least.


----------



## freeagent (Aug 8, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Have you messed with the step-up and step-down time for the fans in Q-fan?


No I haven't, mainly because I like that reaction time, usually catches the heat before it becomes a problem 

Although 3 out of my 5 fans are capable of 2500-3000 RPM, I could probably look into it now


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 13, 2021)

Its coming together...


----------



## outpt (Aug 13, 2021)

That is super clean


----------



## mama (Aug 13, 2021)

Are you exhausting to the bottom of the case?



mama said:


> Are you exhausting to the bottom of the case?


Or sucking in?


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 13, 2021)

mama said:


> Are you exhausting to the bottom of the case?
> 
> 
> Or sucking in?


Sucking in. I dont want negative air pressure.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 15, 2021)

And its done. Just need the coolant to come that i ordered. Tried to make my own with EK cloud white and dye kit and couldnt get the blue tint i wanted


----------



## freeagent (Aug 15, 2021)

Yay or nay?

ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero AM4 AMD X570S SATA 6Gb/s ATX AMD Motherboard - Newegg.ca


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 15, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Yay or nay?
> 
> ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero AM4 AMD X570S SATA 6Gb/s ATX AMD Motherboard - Newegg.ca


Meh. Look at the x570s aorus master. I think you get more for the money.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 19, 2021)

What is everyone using to check temps on your CPUs?


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 19, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> What is everyone using to check temps on your CPUs?


 most people use HWINFO and its the go to standard.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 19, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Meh. Look at the x570s aorus master. I think you get more for the money.



Isn't the hybrid OC still exclusive to Dark Hero? Methinks for what @freeagent does to his 5900X, Dark Hero would be more up his alley. Difference is like $30cad. He's got a pretty insane 5900X sample there anyway

I just can't get over how pepega the Gigabyte BIOS is for memory OC, it just has fits and never really recovers and needs a unplug+clear CMOS+drain battery to actually reset. Did they ever end up fixing the AX200/BT module disappearing on like half of the X570/B550 boards? Physically great and great-looking boards, but man the firmware

will say though, Gigabyte boards have always lasted me longer, so maybe that's a consideration for $500 boards


----------



## freeagent (Aug 19, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I just can't get over how pepega the Gigabyte BIOS is for memory OC, it just has fits and never really recovers and needs a unplug+clear CMOS+drain battery to actually reset.


I have seen BZ fight with that more than once 

I mean sure, sometimes I have to do that with my Asus, but its always because I took things way to far. Be it speed, timings or both. I am sure GB makes an ok board, but I think back to my last GB board and I don't really have anything good to say about it, other than the materials used in its construction were very nice, and it looked great.. but the performance was not. Being that was my first GB board.. those first impressions go a long way. And many many moons later I still look back with mild disdain.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 19, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> most people use HWINFO and its the go to standard.


oh sweet. Never used it. But I like it 











tabascosauz said:


> Isn't the hybrid OC still exclusive to Dark Hero? Methinks for what @freeagent does to his 5900X, Dark Hero would be more up his alley. Difference is like $30cad. He's got a pretty insane 5900X sample there anyway
> 
> I just can't get over how pepega the Gigabyte BIOS is for memory OC, it just has fits and never really recovers and needs a unplug+clear CMOS+drain battery to actually reset. Did they ever end up fixing the AX200/BT module disappearing on like half of the X570/B550 boards? Physically great and great-looking boards, but man the firmware
> 
> will say though, Gigabyte boards have always lasted me longer, so maybe that's a consideration for $500 boards


I haven't touched the RAM at all on my system yet. I think its sitting at 2400 right now. Just trying to get everything setup now that the build is done.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 19, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> oh sweet. Never used it. But I like it
> 
> View attachment 213305
> 
> I haven't touched the RAM at all on my system yet. I think its sitting at 2400 right now. Just trying to get everything setup now that the build is done.



HWInfo is basically the only real option for Ryzen. Ryzen Master isn't very suited to monitoring (though it has the most accurate idle voltages and clocks), HWMonitor/Core Temp isn't great for Ryzen. Not sure about Argus Monitor

I set up my old GW2765HT 27" 1440p as a vertical monitor, it's basically perfect for monitoring. I used to think that HWInfo was the source of my stuttering (it certainly has a minor impact on CPU benchmarks), but now that I know the culprit was CJR, I've gone back to running HWInfo all the time again.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 19, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> HWInfo is basically the only real option for Ryzen. Ryzen Master isn't very suited to monitoring (though it has the most accurate idle voltages and clocks), HWMonitor/Core Temp isn't great for Ryzen. Not sure about Argus Monitor
> 
> I set up my old GW2765HT 27" 1440p as a vertical monitor, it's basically perfect for monitoring. I used to think that HWInfo was the source of my stuttering (it certainly has a minor impact on CPU benchmarks), but now that I know the culprit was CJR, I've gone back to running HWInfo all the time again.
> 
> View attachment 213319


I was going to say. Coretemp temps seem off for Ryzen



tabascosauz said:


> HWInfo is basically the only real option for Ryzen. Ryzen Master isn't very suited to monitoring (though it has the most accurate idle voltages and clocks), HWMonitor/Core Temp isn't great for Ryzen. Not sure about Argus Monitor
> 
> I set up my old GW2765HT 27" 1440p as a vertical monitor, it's basically perfect for monitoring. I used to think that HWInfo was the source of my stuttering (it certainly has a minor impact on CPU benchmarks), but now that I know the culprit was CJR, I've gone back to running HWInfo all the time again.
> 
> View attachment 213319


Theres got to be a way to see external temp sensor values via hwinfo right? Sensors that are connected into the motherboard?

I guess I can just use Gigabytes System Information viewer software as part of their App Center.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 20, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> I was going to say. Coretemp temps seem off for Ryzen
> 
> 
> Theres got to be a way to see external temp sensor values via hwinfo right? Sensors that are connected into the motherboard?



Should show up in HWInfo. Possibly under board sensors section (after CPU Enhanced section), Gigabyte has pretty good SuperI/O reporting. 

Coolant temp monitoring | Overclock.net


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 20, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Should show up in HWInfo. Possibly under board sensors section (after CPU Enhanced section), Gigabyte has pretty good SuperI/O reporting.
> 
> Coolant temp monitoring | Overclock.net


I think i found it. Doesnt specifically say it but bios was saying it was about 30-33c and i found a temp reading in hwinfo in that range.

I need to update this boards BIOS. I get the windows usb reconnect sounds every once and a while. They posted a new bios recently with the 1.2.0.3b agesa update that sounds like its helping that issue.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 20, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> I think i found it. Doesnt specifically say it but bios was saying it was about 30-33c and i found a temp reading in hwinfo in that range.
> 
> I need to update this boards BIOS. I get the windows usb reconnect sounds every once and a while. They posted a new bios recently with the 1.2.0.3b agesa update that sounds like its helping that issue.



The USB problems have literally been around since forever, I have no confidence in their ability. 1201A was supposed to fix it, 1202 was the original that was supposed to fix it, 1203A/B are supposed to fix it......I think somewhere between 1201A and 1203 I stopped getting the sounds, but still have the popping and by then I was used to it

Read a couple of times that its more common if you use a lot of PCIe 4.0, but idk, I just gave up


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 20, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> The USB problems have literally been around since forever, I have no confidence in their ability. 1201A was supposed to fix it, 1202 was the original that was supposed to fix it, 1203A/B are supposed to fix it......I think somewhere between 1201A and 1203 I stopped getting the sounds, but still have the popping and by then I was used to it
> 
> Read a couple of times that its more common if you use a lot of PCIe 4.0, but idk, I just gave up



can you be more specific what you mean by USB problems? i literally had zero issues with my 5600x/rx 6800 system


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 20, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> The USB problems have literally been around since forever, I have no confidence in their ability. 1201A was supposed to fix it, 1202 was the original that was supposed to fix it, 1203A/B are supposed to fix it......I think somewhere between 1201A and 1203 I stopped getting the sounds, but still have the popping and by then I was used to it
> 
> Read a couple of times that its more common if you use a lot of PCIe 4.0, but idk, I just gave up


Yeah, ive read that too. I only have my GPU and one NVME GEN4 drive. I guess we will see. Idk why AMD struggles with USB so much. Its crazy to me

I am going to try tp get my RAM set up tomorrow. Should i even bother with XMP?


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 20, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Yeah, ive read that too. I only have my GPU and one NVME GEN4 drive. I guess we will see. Idk why AMD struggles with USB so much. Its crazy to me
> 
> I am going to try tp get my RAM set up tomorrow. Should i even bother with XMP?



tbf boards are all different as to what ports they hook up to PCH and which ones to CPU, but I've never had problems with the APUs, feels like it's an I/O die problem that they just don't wanna admit so they keep on claiming it can be fixed through firmware.

Yea 3600CL14 1.45V XMP is pretty good. I really can't notice any daily difference to 3800CL14. If you don't wanna get into all the subtimings then I'd just leave it on XMP.





lynx29 said:


> can you be more specific what you mean by USB problems? i literally had zero issues with my 5600x/rx 6800 system



it's not remotely a secret, USB dropouts, USB disconnecting sound without actually disconnecting, USB audio noise/popping, etc. They've been actively trying to fix it for half a year now


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 20, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> it's not remotely a secret, USB dropouts, USB disconnecting sound without actually disconnecting, USB audio noise/popping, etc. They've been actively trying to fix it for half a year now


Never had any of these issues. I did have some issues with the USB 2.0 ports, but that was because of the cheap-ass Genesys Logic USB 2.0 hub Gigabyte use on some of their boards, but that was with devices not being recognised or powered properly, not with what you're describing. 
Not saying it doesn't happen, as people have clearly had multiple issues or AMD wouldn't have been looking into it.

As a point of reference, AMD had the worst native USB 3.0 host controller back in the AM2 days, as I tested almost all USB 3.0 controllers available at the time. Tried to talk to the guy at AMD, as he was at Computex, he refused to talk to me and ran off... Very mature.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 20, 2021)

TheLostSwede said:


> Never had any of these issues. I did have some issues with the USB 2.0 ports, but that was because of the cheap-ass Genesys Logic USB 2.0 hub Gigabyte use on some of their boards, but that was with devices not being recognised or powered properly, not with what you're describing.
> Not saying it doesn't happen, as people have clearly had multiple issues or AMD wouldn't have been looking into it.
> 
> As a point of reference, AMD had the worst native USB 3.0 host controller back in the AM2 days, as I tested almost all USB 3.0 controllers available at the time. Tried to talk to the guy at AMD, as he was at Computex, he refused to talk to me and ran off... Very mature.



I was at one point considering 11700K/10850K so I guess I can't complain, it's what I deserve for still giving AMD a second chance after horrid 3700X  I wish they'd stop acting like the underdog and thinking that whatever half-assery they pull they'll just be forgiven by their fanboy community......there's valid excuses out there, but it's not 2017 anymore, they gotta start putting the effort in



MxPhenom 216 said:


> I need to update this boards BIOS.



I was going to say that you can load a few BIOSes onto the USB and just shop around between them at will to see which one works the best, but realized that there are only 2 BIOSes LOL

The July 13th F13 release for 1.2.0.3b has been a big pain in the ass for me on my 5700G. Gigabyte's F13l beta BIOS works fine (basically identical, but beta), but somehow they absolutely torpedoed iGPU performance as well as IF stability north of 2100MHz in the release BIOS. Lots of Gigabyte boards have the same July 13th date stamp on their 1.2.0.3b BIOSes so it's probably a similar BIOS tailored for every board. They pulled it once, then returned it to the webpage, but I tested it and it was literally the exact same file.

Not saying you'll run into the same problems, 1.2.0.3b works okay on my Unify-X (minus audio popping ofc, but what else is new), 1.2.0.3b beta works on the B550I Aorus AX, and 1.2.0.3b release worked fine on the B550I Gaming Edge MAX I had (somewhat crappy CPU perf tho).

I don't expect Gigabyte to fix or replace F13 for at least the next month, not with the ransomware going on and most of their support pages being completely broken. Feel kinda bad for them honestly. On another forum I asked another owner with the same board to test F13 with a Cezanne APU and the perf was lower exactly as I expected at the same settings, by the margin I was expecting


----------



## HD64G (Aug 20, 2021)

Latest chipset/platform from the Intel side is worst in quirks than AMD's AM4 today. And the usb problem (that I also faced with a specific UEFI version) has being solved for months now with UEFI updates.


----------



## Taraquin (Aug 20, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> tbf boards are all different as to what ports they hook up to PCH and which ones to CPU, but I've never had problems with the APUs, feels like it's an I/O die problem that they just don't wanna admit so they keep on claiming it can be fixed through firmware.
> 
> Yea 3600CL14 1.45V XMP is pretty good. I really can't notice any daily difference to 3800CL14. If you don't wanna get into all the subtimings then I'd just leave it on XMP.
> 
> ...


Are that 3600-setup an xmp-setup? Must be the best I've seen  I see that with the xmp-value on my PV 4400cl19 they do good primaries and some subs like trfc, but trc and tfaw is terrible.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 20, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I was at one point considering 11700K/10850K so I guess I can't complain, it's what I deserve for still giving AMD a second chance after horrid 3700X  I wish they'd stop acting like the underdog and thinking that whatever half-assery they pull they'll just be forgiven by their fanboy community......there's valid excuses out there, but it's not 2017 anymore, they gotta start putting the effort in


They're still playing the underdog card...

I guess part of the issue is still getting the right people in the right positions.
What AMD really need to do is hire some more senior engineers and start building in-house reference designs, for all their various platforms, as this will 1. help find hardware bugs 2. help find software bugs and 3. speed up time to market, as the motherboard/laptop makers have to spend less time figuring shit out on their own.
It's not good enough to dump some engineering guidelines, an early firmware/UEFI and some alpha drivers with the device makers when your main competitor have local FAE people that bring complete kits and turn up with new bits when needed, as well as help debug the issues on site.

This is imho, one of AMD's biggest flaws at the moment. They really need to work a lot closer with their partners to get rid of all the little issues before they launch new platforms. It shouldn't be a six month period of updates to try to make systems stable any more. That was ok for the first and maybe the second generation, but by now, it really shouldn't be happening, but still clearly is.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what AM5 brings, but this time I'm going to skip the first generation, as I have had a Ryzen 7 1700 and my current Ryzen 7 3800X and both had way too many weird bugs and issues early on. Did they get fixed? Sure and both systems worked well, although the 1700 never really liked my RAM, but hey...

AM5 needs to be as flawless as possible at launch, but I have my doubts.

Not hating on AMD here, as they have shown they can make really good CPUs, but the rest of the ecosystem needs to be on the same level.

Oh and if they don't want to make their own chipsets, at least pay your partners enough that they can make proper solutions. For those not in the know, most of the original ASMedia people are from VIA, hence the various lawsuits in the past. They should be more than capable of making a chipset. Or alternatively, open it up for more companies so we get some competition there too.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 20, 2021)

HD64G said:


> Latest chipset/platform from the Intel side is worst in quirks than AMD's AM4 today. And the usb problem (that I also faced with a specific UEFI version) has being solved for months now with UEFI updates.



Any specific as to Intel "quirk"? Only thing I can recall lately is launch microcode for RKL being a little slow on performance.

That's AMD's position on the matter. Issue is, they've been saying the same thing for every revision since 1201A (technically 1202, 1201A was a backport of the fix). A quick check around the web shows that it's clearly not fixed completely as of 1203b. Given that it affects a whole variety of audio interfaces (like mine), VR headsets and other devices, I doubt it ever will be ironed out entirely.



Taraquin said:


> Are that 3600-setup an xmp-setup? Must be the best I've seen  I see that with the xmp-value on my PV 4400cl19 they do good primaries and some subs like trfc, but trc and tfaw is terrible.



The XMP on my dual rank kit is 14-14-14, but the 1.42V daily profile is something I worked out on my own. They're not in the same league as my single rank sticks, my 4400 Viper Steels refuse to do CL14, or 4/4/16/4/8/10 stable.



TheLostSwede said:


> They're still playing the underdog card...
> 
> I guess part of the issue is still getting the right people in the right positions.
> What AMD really need to do is hire some more senior engineers and start building in-house reference designs, for all their various platforms, as this will 1. help find hardware bugs 2. help find software bugs and 3. speed up time to market, as the motherboard/laptop makers have to spend less time figuring shit out on their own.
> ...



I keep on hearing (probably on r/AMD lol) that AMD is too small to run as big a testing team, but whatever the case it's not acceptable to treat one's customers as the testing team, definitely not the second or third time around

Feel like Intel might be going down the same road with their heterogeneous computing though, probably headaches all around in 2022. But I think I have a bit more confidence in them fixing bugs in a relatively short time frame.


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 20, 2021)

I can say the reports of a buggy bios are what turned me from rocket lake to X570, and I haven't had many issues personally.  But then again, my onboard audio is not even used, so...


----------



## freeagent (Aug 20, 2021)

I don’t have any pcie4 devices, so maybe that helped? I have had none of those issues at all. Pretty much smooth sailing..


----------



## HD64G (Aug 20, 2021)

@tabascosauz : Latest Intel's platform quirks are mentioned in every review on the 11XX0 CPUs from the famous tubers. Search and watch yourself.​


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 20, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> tbf boards are all different as to what ports they hook up to PCH and which ones to CPU, but I've never had problems with the APUs, feels like it's an I/O die problem that they just don't wanna admit so they keep on claiming it can be fixed through firmware.
> 
> Yea 3600CL14 1.45V XMP is pretty good. I really can't notice any daily difference to 3800CL14. If you don't wanna get into all the subtimings then I'd just leave it on XMP.
> 
> ...


Mines 14-15-15-35. If i want 14-14-14-34 should i still run with xmp? Id obviously manually change the last 3.

...and forgot gigabyte got hacked and cant download anything from their site right now

Okay, got the F2 bios downloaded finally. Going to update then dial in the ram at 3600 14-14-14-34.

Okay. Running XMP then i manually went in to dial down the main timings to 14-14-14-34






8700k and 3080ti




5900x and 3080ti




Also with an 8700k and totally out of the box stock 3080ti in AC Valhalla bench:
79FPS

Now with 5900x, RAM not dialed in with same stock 3080ti:
83FPS

5900x, RAM dialed in at 3600 14-14-14-34, same stock 3080ti:
86FPS





Shouldnt the memory latency be more in the 50s?


----------



## Taraquin (Aug 20, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Mines 14-15-15-35. If i want 14-14-14-34 should i still run with xmp? Id obviously manually change the last 3.
> 
> ...and forgot gigabyte got hacked and cant download anything from their site right now
> 
> ...


Yes, but your subtimings are terrible. Try tras 28, trc 42, trfc 252, trrds 4, trrdl 6, tfaw 16, trtp 6, twr 12, twtrs 4, twtrl 12, scls at 4.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 20, 2021)

Whats considered a decent temperature for a 5900x? Mine bounced around 65-70. hottest core hitting 73-74 in BFv

SoC voltage seems kind of high at 1.175 right?


----------



## Taraquin (Aug 20, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Whats considered a decent temperature for a 5900x? Mine bounced around 65-70. hottest core hitting 73-74 in BFv
> 
> SoC voltage seems kind of high at 1.175 right?


What cooler do you have? Try undervolt with curve optimizer, that will drop voltage and hence temps some.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 20, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> What cooler do you have? Try undervolt with curve optimizer, that will drop voltage and hence temps some.



Im on custom water loop. Seem to fall inline with other peoples custom water loops. Prob neeed to crank my fan speeds a little bit on the rads. I think I have the curve for those fairly conservative currently.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 20, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Whats considered a decent temperature for a 5900x? Mine bounced around 65-70. hottest core hitting 73-74 in BFv
> 
> SoC voltage seems kind of high at 1.175 right?



5900X/5950X run hot under 1- and 2- and 3-core load, the PB2 algorithm doesn't seem to reduce clocks much at all until load hits ~4 cores. In particular, BFV and MW19 are the worst bc they also throw AVX into the mix too. Under a NH-D15, the chips will hit 80C or higher, and it doesn't even matter if actually CPU bound, just how the games are.

Still seems kinda warm for custom water, but not sure. The block you have (some new blocks out there "optimized" for AMD) and paste you use probably can have an impact, since for those loads it's about getting the heat out out of the chip asap and not about overall wattage. 

For 3600 you shouldn't need that much VSOC. You can just directly set what you need. I run 1.05V (drooping down to 1.03V get or so) at 3600. With mine, using it for a few hours will expose VSOC that's too low, so it's easy to tell when I've gone too far



HD64G said:


> @tabascosauz : Latest Intel's platform quirks are mentioned in every review on the 11XX0 CPUs from the famous tubers. Search and watch yourself.​



Why get so defensive like AMD can do no wrong?    That was an actual question, you don't need to give me the standard pointless r/AMD answer.

I've watched a crap ton of 11th gen content, but mostly had it playing in the background so while I can vaguely recall Roman talking a bit about a buggy BIOS on one of his boards, I can't recall any platform-wide bugs. Think maybe it was some issues with either command rate or Gear 2 early on


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 20, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> 5900X/5950X run hot under 1- and 2- and 3-core load, the PB2 algorithm doesn't seem to reduce clocks much at all until load hits ~4 cores. In particular, BFV and MW19 are the worst bc they also throw AVX into the mix too. Under a NH-D15, the chips will hit 80C or higher, and it doesn't even matter if actually CPU bound, just how the games are.
> 
> Still seems kinda warm for custom water, but not sure. The block you have (some new blocks out there "optimized" for AMD) and paste you use probably can have an impact, since for those loads it's about getting the heat out out of the chip asap and not about overall wattage.
> 
> ...


yeah. I might dial it back to about 1.1v for vSOC and go from there. Vcore averages about 1.41 it seems under load.

Regarding the block and paste. There is a chance i may not have put enough paste, or didnt tighten down the block totally which would be an easy tweak to make. Im not going to repaste it though so ill live with whatever it ends up being. My ambients are pretty hot right now though too, and i forget water cooling is sooo ambient temp sensitive.

Ever since updating BIOS, i havent had the USB sounds. It also seemed to only happen if i had the Lian Li L-connect software running.

Can SoC voltage effect chip heat or not much?

I will say, this is the first CPU upgrade I have ever done where I have been like "What the f**** is this CPU, and how is it so fast"


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 20, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> yeah. I might dial it back to about 1.1v for vSOC and go from there. Vcore averages about 1.41 it seems under load.
> 
> Regarding the block and paste. There is a chance i may not have put enough paste, or didnt tighten down the block totally which would be an easy tweak to make. Im not going to repaste it though so ill live with whatever it ends up being. My ambients are pretty hot right now though too, and i forget water cooling is sooo ambient temp sensitive.
> 
> ...



SOC power draw scales pretty linearly with VSOC, but it shouldn't affect your temps at all at reasonable volts. Since you're using HWInfo you'll be looking at the per-core temps anyways, I/O die is way over there on the other side of the substrate

As for Vcore, it isn't accurate at idle. It should be accurate during those gaming loads, but it is allowed to pull 1.4-1.5V to sustain lightly threaded loads. You will never see 1.4V all-core unless you manually overclock (or maybe some wonky PBO), all-core will usually be in the 1.2V range.

Post up another zentimings screenshot of your new profile?

I dropped about 0.5-1.0C during those inferno MW19 2-core AVX loads, switching from NT-H1 to NT-H2. Anything you can do to improve heat transfer can help those 1/2/3-core loads. If I had water I'd probably use KPX/NT-H2/Kryonaut


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 20, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> SOC power draw scales pretty linearly with VSOC, but it shouldn't affect your temps at all at reasonable volts. Since you're using HWInfo you'll be looking at the per-core temps anyways, I/O die is way over there on the other side of the substrate
> 
> As for Vcore, it isn't accurate at idle. It should be accurate during those gaming loads, but it is allowed to pull 1.4-1.5V to sustain lightly threaded loads. You will never see 1.4V all-core unless you manually overclock, all-core will usually be in the 1.2V range.
> 
> ...


I havent changed it since I posted it a bit earlier yet. 

Need to tweak timings a bit to get under 60ns latency on RAM thats for sure.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 20, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> I havent changed it since I posted it a bit earlier yet.
> 
> Need to tweak timings a bit to get under 60ns latency on RAM thats for sure.



You can reduce lightly threaded load temps somewhat if you have Curve Optimizer headroom on those cores. CO can reduce ST temps drastically, but only if you are lucky and have the ability to go down to -15 to -30 on those cores. If you can only do -7 like me after stability testing, then you won't see much difference. And Curve Optimizer will not reduce MT temps at all. I have a feeling AVX reduces the gain as well

On the reasonably tight 3600CL14 profile from earlier I was at about 56.5ns. 106 seconds in membench.

More interested to see what you achieve in membench though, it's much more consistent than AIDA. You may have noticed that during your AIDA run you were down to 4.6GHz when it polled CPU speed


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 20, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> You can reduce lightly threaded load temps somewhat if you have Curve Optimizer headroom on those cores. CO can reduce ST temps drastically, but only if you are lucky and have the ability to go down to -15 to -30 on those cores. If you can only do -7 like me after stability testing, then you won't see much difference. And Curve Optimizer will not reduce MT temps at all. I have a feeling AVX reduces the gain as well
> 
> On the reasonably tight 3600CL14 profile from earlier I was at about 56.5ns. 106 seconds in membench.
> 
> ...


Currently trying to figure out if i should be concerned with the d3 code I see. I think ive gotten it ever since Windows Update installed this AMD - System 20.50.0.0 bull shit last night. I dont think its really a cause for concern at all considering it will go to AA after post. itll switch to d3 once im logged into windows.

Its gone now after I uninstalled the System 20.50.0.0 driver which was PCI related. 

Had to roll it back to the Microsoft driver rather than the one that seems to only get pushed through windows update for Gigabyte, and no more d3 code.


----------



## HD64G (Aug 21, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Why get so defensive like AMD can do no wrong?    That was an actual question, you don't need to give me the standard pointless r/AMD answer.
> 
> I've watched a crap ton of 11th gen content, but mostly had it playing in the background so while I can vaguely recall Roman talking a bit about a buggy BIOS on one of his boards, I can't recall any platform-wide bugs. Think maybe it was some issues with either command rate or Gear 2 early on


Your stance seems to be defensive for Intel's platform bugs though as I knew what has happened with AM4 and is fixed for months now but you pretend that Intel is perfect and asked about what is wrong with that.


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 21, 2021)

HD64G said:


> and is fixed for months now


Obviously not for him.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 21, 2021)

HD64G said:


> Your stance seems to be defensive for Intel's platform bugs though as I knew what has happened with AM4 and is fixed for months now but you pretend that Intel is perfect and asked about what is wrong with that.



 Why are you taking it so personally? I asked you a simple question, instead for no reason you've gone round and round in nonsensical circles about Intel bad AMD good. You mentioned Z590 platform bugs, I asked you for specifics as I legitimately am not familiar, so "go search it up anywhere and everywhere" is anything but helpful

As for "fixed for months"  I've got my DT770s on my head right now hooked up to a Scarlett Solo that pops all day long and has never stopped popping on two CPUs (3700X and 5900X) and two boards (B550M TUF and B550 Unify-X), but doesn't pop on my Intel laptop or AMD HTPC. From a quick look at the web I'm not the only one continuing to have problems

I don't know what more you want - I literally said that I expect Intel to go through similar teething pains when Alder Lake drops. Is it my half-serious comment about giving AMD a second chance that got you all offended? But hey, if you took that seriously for whatever reason, I'll apologize - if you had my former 3700X I'm sure your outlook would be less rosy too.


----------



## freeagent (Aug 21, 2021)

Your 3700x was interesting.. I wonder what is up with the popping? Is it your 5900? Talk to AMD and maybe use that 3 year warranty?


----------



## Calmmo (Aug 21, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> As for "fixed for months"  I've got my DT770s on my head right now hooked up to a Scarlett Solo that pops all day long and has never stopped popping on two CPUs (3700X and 5900X) and two boards (B550M TUF and B550 Unify-X), but doesn't pop on my Intel laptop or AMD HTPC. From a quick look at the web I'm not the only one continuing to have problems



I had that same issue on my scarlett too (on the 5900x, never had issues on the same x570master+3900x) but it's been fixed since.. whatever the first usb fix agesa was (the beta fix one before the "official" fix).
It gets derpy once per month but switching the bitrate from the scarlett driver app fixes it (pretty sure that's just an issue with the interface and not usb/amd specific


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 21, 2021)

Calmmo said:


> I had that same issue on my scarlett too (on the 5900x, never had issues on the same x570master+3900x) but it's been fixed since.. whatever the first usb fix agesa was (the beta fix one before the "official" fix).
> It gets derpy once per month but switching the bitrate from the scarlett driver app fixes it (pretty sure that's just an issue with the interface and not usb/amd specific



In a sense, it was somewhat "fixed" because after 1201A I never had the USB disconnecting sound after. But the popping never went away, it's especially obvious if there's technically an audio track playing but no sound (eg. song with minimal audio at the beginning, or one of those "your PC is infected" popups). I can't use the Focusrite drivers because they're even worse, and also introduce popping to the audio input side for some reason.

I wanted to believe that it was the Scarlett, but seeing as my XPS 13 and 5700G both work just fine with Windows drivers with no popping, I'm not so sure. For the time being I've gone back to Scarlett for input only and E10K for output.



freeagent said:


> Your 3700x was interesting.. I wonder what is up with the popping? Is it your 5900? Talk to AMD and maybe use that 3 year warranty?



I dunno, seems like a really small thing to RMA for. And the 3700X pretty much had cancer but AMD still wanted me to jump through a laundry list of diagnostic hoops for them so I'm not enthusiastic about what happens for a way more niche issue. I have a really bad habit of returning/RMAing/selling things that I thought were bad (truly it can't get any worse, right?") only to end up saddled with something truly worse.


----------



## INSTG8R (Aug 21, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Why are you taking it so personally? I asked you a simple question, instead for no reason you've gone round and round in nonsensical circles about Intel bad AMD good. You mentioned Z590 platform bugs, I asked you for specifics as I legitimately am not familiar, so "go search it up anywhere and everywhere" is anything but helpful
> 
> As for "fixed for months"  I've got my DT770s on my head right now hooked up to a Scarlett Solo that pops all day long and has never stopped popping on two CPUs (3700X and 5900X) and two boards (B550M TUF and B550 Unify-X), but doesn't pop on my Intel laptop or AMD HTPC. From a quick look at the web I'm not the only one continuing to have problems
> 
> I don't know what more you want - I literally said that I expect Intel to go through similar teething pains when Alder Lake drops. Is it my half-serious comment about giving AMD a second chance that got you all offended? But hey, if you took that seriously for whatever reason, I'll apologize - if you had my former 3700X I'm sure your outlook would be less rosy too.


Spread Spectrum/ thread…
I’ve fought with AMD staff being a beta tester for them to try to justify why this is still a setting and why it’s actually on by default. I was literally ready to smash my sound card when I switched from Intel to AMD until it just clicked. Spread Spectrum let’s the clocks “float” to avoid interference, but literally only applies to to multiple PCs in a close environment  you’d literally have to dig through an Intel BIOS to find that setting im this day and age if you could even find it at all. Regardless it’s a relic that has no business being on modern MoBos and certainly should NOT be on by default…
I mean when you actually search the web you find articles like this from a decade ago…






						ASUS Striker II Extreme: Mucho Bang, Mucho Bucks
					






					www.anandtech.com


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 21, 2021)

INSTG8R said:


> Spread Spectrum/ thread…
> I’ve fought with AMD staff being a beta tester for them to try to justify why this is still a setting and why it’s actually on by default. I was literally ready to smash my sound card when I switched from Intel to AMD until it just clicked. Spread Spectrum let’s the clocks “float” to avoid interference, but literally only applies to to multiple PCs in a close environment  you’d literally have to dig through an Intel BIOS to find that setting im this day and age if you could even find it at all. Regardless it’s a relic that has no business being on modern MoBos and certainly should NOT be on by default…
> I mean when you actually search the web you find articles like this from a decade ago…
> 
> ...



Is it the Soundblaster? I usually run with Spread Spectrum off on everything so clocks are easier to recognize. I had the same thought as you did, it was my go-to attempt at a solution but it doesn't make a difference. Feel like maybe it works for PCIe sound cards but not USB DACs/interfaces. The Unify-X has a pretty balanced mix of CPU/chipset USB ports, no difference switching between them.


----------



## INSTG8R (Aug 21, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Is it the Soundblaster? I usually run with Spread Spectrum off on everything so clocks are easier to recognize. I had the same thought as you did, it was my go-to attempt at a solution but it doesn't make a difference. Feel like maybe it works for PCIe sound cards but not USB DACs/interfaces. The Unify-X has a pretty balanced mix of CPU/chipset USB ports, no difference switching between them.


Yeah technically it shouldn’t effect a USB DAC but…we know X570 has had it’s share of USB issues anyway…


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 21, 2021)

Should I change the Load Line Calibration setting? Its current set to auto, and I just set Vsoc to 1.1v and its sitting at 1.075v in Windows via HWinfo.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 22, 2021)

INSTG8R said:


> Yeah technically it shouldn’t effect a USB DAC but…we know X570 has had it’s share of USB issues anyway…



The real tragedy there is that I have never had a single X570 board......missing out on the features while sharing all the problems  so if anything, probably absolves the X570 PCH of blame for this particular issue


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 22, 2021)

So, whatever LLC setting my board is doing on auto, sets my Vsoc to 1.075v when i set to 1.1v in BIOS, but doing so seems to have murdered my systems performance. Thoughts?


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 22, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> So, whatever LLC setting my board is doing on auto, sets my Vsoc to 1.075v when i set to 1.1v in BIOS, but doing so seems to have murdered my systems performance. Thoughts?



That's a sizeable droop but not unreasonable unless it's dropping even lower when you stress IF (ie. memtesting). Could you elaborate on "murdered" system performance? Do you mean reduced memory benchmark performance? If you're not pushing enough VSOC, then memory performance and stability can suffer. If IF is on the edge, I mainly pay attention to VSOC and VDDG_IOD. 

You really shouldn't need 1.1V for 3600 though? For an average 5900X maybe even 1.05V is a bit much (1.05V get, not set). I set 1.125V for 3800 and get 1.106V or so.

If you find the droop excessive just up the LLC a notch or two. Auto LLC on Gigabyte is usually middle of the road. There's no iGPU so SOC power draw really doesn't vary at all, don't see much risk in running even High or Turbo, though I don't see why it would ever be necessary.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 22, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> That's a sizeable droop but not unreasonable unless it's dropping even lower when you stress IF (ie. memtesting). Could you elaborate on "murdered" system performance? Do you mean reduced memory benchmark performance? If you're not pushing enough VSOC, then memory performance and stability can suffer. If IF is on the edge, I mainly pay attention to VSOC and VDDG_IOD.
> 
> You really shouldn't need 1.1V for 3600 though? For an average 5900X maybe even 1.05V is a bit much (1.05V get, not set). I set 1.125V for 3800 and get 1.106V or so.
> 
> If you find the droop excessive just up the LLC a notch or two. Auto LLC on Gigabyte is usually middle of the road. There's no iGPU so SOC power draw really doesn't vary at all, don't see much risk in running even High or Turbo, though I don't see why it would ever be necessary.


Performance in the AC Valhalla benchmark went down to about 70 FPS from about 80-85fps that is was. Once I bumped Vsoc to 1.15v again and set LLC to Turbo, which has it showing at 1.138v in Windows performance went back up.

Shit box 5900x lol?

I dropped it back to 1.125, which reads at 1.112 in Windows, and performance has stayed constant with what im expecting. Let me run a few more tests.

Okay shit seems okay now. Im at 1.1v in BIOS, 1.087v in Windows. Performance normalized. LLC set to Turbo for the Vsoc.

Is there any way to read DRAM voltage in hwinfo? Its set to AUTO in BIOS, but XMP is enabled so it should be getting 1.45v, just want to confirm though.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 22, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Performance in the AC Valhalla benchmark went down to about 70 FPS from about 80-85fps that is was. Once I bumped Vsoc to 1.15v again and set LLC to Turbo, which has it showing at 1.138v in Windows performance went back up.
> 
> Shit box 5900x lol?
> 
> ...



It should be 1.45, but if you're worried just type in 1.45 in the box. Don't count on the software VDIMM sensor, I've yet to come across a single AM4 Gigabyte board that doesn't purport to overvolt VDIMM by 0.03-0.06V according to the software sensor. just gigabyte things

I'm not entirely convinced that the software reading is even accurate, because when I move the same kits to non-Gigabyte boards I still go off the BIOS value and not the overvolted software value.


----------



## freeagent (Aug 22, 2021)

I use 1.156-1.162 SOC for 2K and up on my 5600X

My Z77 OC Formula and Strix B550-F don't show vdimm which makes me sad


----------



## HD64G (Aug 22, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Obviously not for him.


Since it was an AGESA bug and the previous to current published AGESA solved it for most, then it isn't an AMD bug but a motherboard vendor. My 5c.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 22, 2021)

HD64G said:


> Since it was an AGESA bug and the previous to current published AGESA solved it for most, then it isn't an AMD bug but a motherboard vendor. My 5c.


AGESA updates are pushed to mobo vendors from AMD. And USB issues arent unique to a specific board vendor. Its widespread. It has literally effected all of them. Not just x570 either. B550 has its share of usb issues too


----------



## HD64G (Aug 22, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> AGESA updates are pushed to mobo vendors from AMD. And USB issues arent unique to a specific board vendor. Its widespread. It has literally effected all of them. Not just x570 either. B550 has its share of usb issues too


But since May this bug was solved for MSI X470 & B450 motherboards and for X570 and B550 it was even earlier. So, for other vendors to still have problems it might have something to do with their UEFIs and not the AGESA code.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 22, 2021)

HD64G said:


> But since May this bug was solved for MSI X470 & B450 motherboards and for X570 and B550 it was even earlier. So, for other vendors to still have problems it might have something to do with their UEFIs and not the AGESA code.



It doesn't sound like for everyone who owns an MSI board that it has been fixed though is what I am saying. There are still those outliers for every vendor where its still an issue. Theres mega threads all over reddit since the first release of AGESA update that addresses the issue where people still report problems, and its not trending to one vendor or another.



tabascosauz said:


> It should be 1.45, but if you're worried just type in 1.45 in the box. Don't count on the software VDIMM sensor, I've yet to come across a single AM4 Gigabyte board that doesn't purport to overvolt VDIMM by 0.03-0.06V according to the software sensor. just gigabyte things
> 
> I'm not entirely convinced that the software reading is even accurate, because when I move the same kits to non-Gigabyte boards I still go off the BIOS value and not the overvolted software value.


In the BIOS to the side where it has RAM and CPU information, ram was at 1.47v for me. I manually set to 1.45 to see if thatll give it a more accurate value.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 22, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> It doesn't sound like for everyone who owns an MSI board that it has been fixed though is what I am saying. There are still those outliers for every vendor where its still an issue. Theres mega threads all over reddit since the first release of AGESA update that addresses the issue where people still report problems, and its not trending to one vendor or another.
> 
> 
> In the BIOS to the side where it has RAM and CPU information, ram was at 1.47v for me. I manually set to 1.45 to see if thatll give it a more accurate value.



You mean the CHA A/B DRAM VOLTAGE reading in the sidebar? Yeah that one's overvolted by about +0.02V for me. So in summary, the number I enter in BIOS is what I go off of but it's not displayed anywhere else in BIOS or Windows; the BIOS sidebar number is +0.02V and doesn't show up anywhere else; and the software sensor is +0.01-0.06V depending on load

#justgigabytethings


In all seriousness, probably best to just treat it like any other board and only go off the value you personally punch into BIOS. It sounds like your board is probably +0.03V like most Gigabyte boards. My Unify-X is better than my Aorus in that the BIOS sidebar is correct, but the software sensor is still +0.01V.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 22, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> You mean the CHA A/B DRAM VOLTAGE reading in the sidebar? Yeah that one's overvolted by about +0.02V for me. So in summary, the number I enter is what I go off of but it's not displayed anywhere else in BIOS or Windows; the BIOS sidebar number is +0.02V and doesn't show up anywhere else; and the software sensor is +0.01-0.06V depending on load
> 
> #justgigabytethings
> 
> ...


Indeed.

I just need to get in and dial down some of those subtimings a bit for this RAM and I think ill be set. I just noticed my tRFC is 630, which is fricking insanely loose.

@tabascosauz 

Why in the timing section does it list my tRFC as 312. But when I go into windows and I open up Zentimings its actually showing as 630?

Is this because of Gear down mode being enabled?


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 23, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Indeed.
> 
> I just need to get in and dial down some of those subtimings a bit for this RAM and I think ill be set. I just noticed my tRFC is 630, which is fricking insanely loose.
> 
> ...



No it's not got anything to do with GDM. Are you sure you didn't look at the wrong number? In Gigabyte BIOS the pesky column on the right I think is always there and shows the current and default values I think

Make sure you didn't accidentally put it in tRFC2 or tRFC4 leave those alone on Auto


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 23, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> No it's not got anything to do with GDM. Are you sure you didn't look at the wrong number? In Gigabyte BIOS the pesky column on the right I think is always there and shows the current and default values I think
> 
> Make sure you didn't accidentally put it in tRFC2 or tRFC4 leave those alone on Auto


yeah idk. the columns show CH A CHB and said it should be 312, but hwinfo and Zentimings was reading 630. I just changed mine a bit. Between the ones you posted, and what the calculator suggested to me:

Is it possible to run Cmd rate at 1T without doing GDM out of curiosity? Im still clueless on what the hell gear down mode even does.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 23, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> yeah idk. the columns show CH A CHB and said it should be 312, but hwinfo and Zentimings was reading 630. I just changed mine a bit. Between the ones you posted, and what the calculator suggested to me:
> 
> Is it possible to run Cmd rate at 1T without doing GDM out of curiosity? Im still clueless on what the hell gear down mode even does.
> 
> View attachment 213864



Latency is really high? My 3600 14-14-14 profile is 56.5ns or so, about the same timings, nothing too tight.

Command rate is just a question of stability. 1T is faster than GDM is faster than 2T, but they are less stable/harder to stabilize in that order.

For pure 1T you can either brute force more VDIMM (not always possible) or do the cadbus trick (60-20-24-24 iirc dont quote me) (also not always possible).

Unless you're a benchmark addict, no point. Sometimes depending on CPU/board, 2T may be slightly faster or slower than GDM, the two of them are pretty close usually.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 23, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Latency is really high? My 3600 14-14-14 profile is 56.5ns or so, about the same timings, nothing too tight.
> 
> Command rate is just a question of stability. 1T is faster than GDM is faster than 2T, but they are less stable/harder to stabilize in that order.
> 
> ...


I think the only differences between my profile and yours is the tRFC and GDM. Those 2 things for me might be able to get me below 60ns


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 23, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> I think the only differences between my profile and yours is the tRFC and GDM. Those 2 things for me might be able to get me below 60ns



I run 140ns tRFC and I don't run GDM anymore just 2T. I don't expect 2T to have any latency penalty nowadays on Zen 3, and 20ns tRFC can probably account for like 0.5ns. tRFC makes a big difference but only really for big jumps (50+ns).

Is F2 the AGESA 1203b BIOS? I'm still convinced that Gigabyte fucked this release in various different ways, wouldn't be surprised if they fix it in the next release.

But your clock in AIDA is quite low. Run it a few more times, see if it changes. Benching AIDA on Zen 3 is a nightmare, v unpredictable latency


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 23, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I run 140ns tRFC and I don't run GDM anymore just 2T. I don't expect 2T to have any latency penalty nowadays on Zen 3, and 20ns tRFC can probably account for like 0.5ns. tRFC makes a big difference but only really for big jumps (50+ns).
> 
> Is F2 the AGESA 1203b BIOS? I'm still convinced that Gigabyte fucked this release in various different ways, wouldn't be surprised if they fix it in the next release.



Indeed it is. I think I am just going to leave it at this for now.

Maybe its DPC vs Daisy Chain since the unify x you have is DPC isnt it? But that may not be that big of a difference


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## tabascosauz (Aug 23, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Indeed it is. I think I am just going to leave it at this for now.
> 
> Maybe its DPC vs Daisy Chain since the unify x you have is DPC isnt it? But that may not be that big of a difference



Nah performance difference is negligible between direct and daisy chain. Maybe 0.5ns, but even then it's impossible to tell if it's due to other board differences. Unify-X actually seems to be on the slower side when it comes to memory, think both my Aorus ITX boards were tighter (GB is generally pretty good on memory imo)

Maybe run a few times membench (in DRAM calc) to see if it's just AIDA acting up


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## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 23, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Nah performance difference is negligible between direct and daisy chain. Maybe 0.5ns, but even then it's impossible to tell if it's due to other board differences. Unify-X actually seems to be on the slower side when it comes to memory, think both my Aorus ITX boards were tighter (GB is generally pretty good on memory imo)
> 
> Maybe run a few times membench (in DRAM calc) to see if it's just AIDA acting up


Where is membench download? I cant find it anywhere.


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## tabascosauz (Aug 23, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Where is membench download? I cant find it anywhere.



It's inside the DRAM calc app. Maybe like 3rd or 4th tab at the top. Just click run, let it do its thing and come back in a few minutes


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## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 23, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> It's inside the DRAM calc app. Maybe like 3rd or 4th tab at the top. Just click run, let it do its thing and come back in a few minutes


Run 1:



Run 2:


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 23, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> View attachment 213868



Seems reasonable enough. Maybe 140ns will do the trick.


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## freeagent (Aug 23, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I run 140ns tRFC and I don't run GDM anymore just 2T.


I was actually just dabbling in that neighborhood today, but on the other side of the spectrum


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 23, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I was actually just dabbling in that neighborhood today, but on the other side of the spectrum
> 
> View attachment 213871


Is TestMem5 considered the standard for mem stability? 

I haven't ran it yet at my settings, but i also havent had problem in anything.


----------



## freeagent (Aug 23, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Is TestMem5 considered the standard for mem stability?


It seems to be fairly aggressive, I don't know if it is the standard though.. I just saw a bunch of guys running it when I got my first Zen chip. It seems to work fairly well.. Usually if that goes I don't have any problems unless they are IF/interconnect problems. I saw Tabascosauz liked the Anta Extreme profile, so I use it. I came here knowing nothing, and these guys did an awesome job coaching me. But I still know nothing


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## tabascosauz (Aug 23, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Is TestMem5 considered the standard for mem stability?
> 
> I haven't ran it yet at my settings, but i also havent had problem in anything.



TM5 with the anta777 extreme1 .cfg is basically the standard yes. Some like using 1usmus v3 .cfg instead, I stick to anta. It's one of the quickest tests.

But you have to keep running it manually every 1h20m or so which makes it a bit of a pain. So I only use it for testing during the day. For overnight I use HCI Memtest Pro, paid $5 for it I think. A lot more convenient than the free HCI, though that still has all the functionality that matters.

Overall anta777 seems more aggressive than HCI. Therefore usually more effective.

But relying on TM5 alone is stupid, like any other test alone, regardless of how good it is. If you want daily stability, always run a bunch of different tests.

e.g. a few runs of TM5 anta + 1000-2000% HCI coverage + LinpackXtreme or Prime95 Large FFT

Even TM5 certainly isn't foolproof. It's better than HCI at detecting most timings, but is fucking terrible at evaluating tRFC on APUs. Vega iGPU are very sensitive to tRFC, so while it might pass any # of TM5 runs at 133ns it'll instantly bluescreen a game.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 23, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> TM5 with the anta777 extreme1 .cfg is basically the standard yes. Some like using 1usmus v3 .cfg instead, I stick to anta. It's one of the quickest tests.
> 
> But you have to keep running it manually every 1h20m or so which makes it a bit of a pain. So I only use it for testing during the day. For overnight I use HCI Memtest Pro, paid $5 for it I think. A lot more convenient than the free HCI, though that still has all the functionality that matters.
> 
> ...


Fuck, i just had my buddy with a 3700x and first gen ddr4 shit box memory run the membench and got something like 90ns latency and his time was 145s. But can't even get through first 2 tests of TM5. But has no issues in games or anything. 

His settings are 3200 at CAS18. Idk how that system is even functional lol. He upgraded from a 6700k and kept the RAM.


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## tabascosauz (Aug 23, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Fuck, i just had my buddy with a 3700x and first gen ddr4 shit box memory run the membench and got something like 90ns latency and his time was 145s. But can't even get through first 2 tests of TM5. But has no issues in games or anything.
> 
> His settings are 3200 at CAS18. Idk how that system is even functional lol. He upgraded from a 6700k and kept the RAM.



You'd be surprised what 2133 jedec looks like in membench then   i had one of my friends run his memory through membench when he upgraded 1600(AE) to 3700X. His time in Easy was slower than my time in Normal (supposed to be about double, test is twice the coverage), and that was when I was on CJR

Yet there's not really anything gamebreaking about his gaming performance. Whereas there definitely something off about it when he was using R5 1600......Just goes to show that as shitty as the cheapo chiplet design is, a healthy dollop of L3 goes a long way

I'm guessing if it's that unstable in TM5 it probably reboots or crashes from instability once every now and then and he just thinks it's a game bug. Happened to me with Arma, always thought it was the game. OS corruption will come for him eventually.


----------



## freeagent (Aug 23, 2021)

Oh yeah I still like Linpack Xtreme too, its pretty good.. just gotta make sure your cooling is good. SuperPi 32m is also pretty decent.. I find myself running OCCT these days, seems kind of realistic.. but I dont take its word for gospel.. just another program to test with. I use some old benchmarks because they are still relevant, and they help me determine if my settings are beneficial or just for show. I wouldn't try to daily that 4466 shot.. because C17 is like eww. And one more bump up to 4533 wouldn't post even with C18 so not sure if that's the ram limit or the board. Not bad for 3200C14 though. I could probably daily 4400.. but I didn't test too much. I have it in my head that Intel is better with memory, but I haven't actually run a new one to know for myself.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 23, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I have it in my head that Intel is better with memory, but I haven't actually run a new one to know for myself.



Certainly not the garbage that is rocket lake lol

Comet Lake is the dream for B-die though. 4800 CL17 daily with no Gear2 bullshit yes please. They say 5700G can also do that 1:1 with an dGPU, but how stable idk and it barely matches even rocket lake on latency

Gear2 is such a meme, I wasn't aware that it actually affects command rate. On AMD being desync will never affect GDM/2T, but on Intel being Gear 2 turns 1T into effective 2T and 2T into effective 4T

I'm still surprised at how cool Comet Lake is. People running 5GHz all-core 10900K  on my C14S in cases smaller than mine, still holding their own on temp under stress tests. Meanwhile I'm out here barely managing all-core below 80C at stock


----------



## freeagent (Aug 23, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Comet Lake is the dream for B-die though. 4800 CL17 daily with no Gear2 bullshit yes please. They say 5700G can also do that 1:1 with an dGPU, but how stable idk and it barely matches even rocket lake on latency


Yes that's the Intel I mean lol, forgot about the meme though.. the newest Intel I have run is 3rd gen.. not very indicative to what's going on it the real world lol. And I seem to forget about those APU's.. not too many people run them that's probably why.

I didn't think Gear 2 affected command rate either.. I figured they brought dividers back, and you could mess around with it like X58. 2T into 4T is a bit of a letdown.. I didn't really look into it much as I was exploring what this thing can and cant do. I was also never able to get 5GHz stable with Intel, believe me I tried.. since like 2008.. on a bunch of different CPU's lol. Main reason why I got the 5900X.. I wanted that 5GHz lol..

So stupid I know. Whatever


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 31, 2021)

Just got an update for HWiNFO to v7.10 and the sensors are much more informative now, rather than having generic names like it was in the previous version i had:

EC_TEMP1 is my water coolant temp, before it was just labeled as Temperature 2:


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 1, 2021)

There's some pretty cool features in v7.1 that I'll be keeping an eye on.








I'd be surprised if that IO die ever goes above 45C though. Haven't seen it exceed 23W or so ever. It's not like it's got an iGPU to support. So far I've gotten it up to about 40C in HCI.

That active core count indicator will be intriguing to compare between games.


----------



## Taraquin (Sep 13, 2021)

So after a week of stability with curve optimizer and +200 pbo and - 30 on all cores except one with - 28 I got a random reboot while moneromining (I use 45W ppt and voltage stays at 850mv, but get a few rare spikes to 1200-1300mv during mining, temp is at 52-55C. I used core cycler to check stability, and it quickly found the one bad core, hence the - 28 on one, but apparently it's a tad unstable still. What other programs/settings would you use to check CO stability? I kniw ram, IF etc is stable since I had no crash/reboot for over 2 months with - 30 CO while using +50 pbo. Only changed variable is the extra 150 pbo.


----------



## dont whant to set it"' (Sep 13, 2021)

Is it paying for the power drawn?


----------



## droopyRO (Sep 13, 2021)

> A fatal hardware error has occurred.
> 
> Reported by component: Processor Core
> Error Source: Machine Check Exception
> ...


I have been getting this reboots from idle or standby. The errors look like this, just the APIC ID varies, it could be 0, 3, 5, 8 etc. I have been using Google to find an answer after i tried a lot of things, including different RAM sticks, BIOS update and downgrade, updating AMD drivers etc.. No matter what game or app or stress test i throw at it, it is stable. The moment i leave the PC at idle and go do something else for 10 minutes i am greeted with the system restarted and the error above in Event Viewer.

Some people suggested it was the CPU(mine is a Ryzen 5600X), and that they RMA'ed it, and that fixed it for them, all were 5xxx series. Have any of you encounterd this issue ? i do have the old 2700X i could put in place. But at the same time i want to exhaust all possible fixes. Thanks.


----------



## Taraquin (Sep 13, 2021)

dont whant to set it' said:


> Is it paying for the power drawn?


Yeah, I earn about 0.4usd a day, idle consumption is 20watts anyways so since I'm gpu mining adding the cpu using 45W costs me about 0.6kW extra energy a day, which costs me 0.1usd in electricity.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 13, 2021)

droopyRO said:


> I have been getting this reboots from idle or standby. The errors look like this, just the APIC ID varies, it could be 0, 3, 5, 8 etc. I have been using Google to find an answer after i tried a lot of things, including different RAM sticks, BIOS update and downgrade, updating AMD drivers etc.. No matter what game or app or stress test i throw at it, it is stable. The moment i leave the PC at idle and go do something else for 10 minutes i am greeted with the system restarted and the error above in Event Viewer.
> 
> Some people suggested it was the CPU(mine is a Ryzen 5600X), and that they RMA'ed it, and that fixed it for them, all were 5xxx series. Have any of you encounterd this issue ? i do have the old 2700X i could put in place. But at the same time i want to exhaust all possible fixes. Thanks.



Stock CPU? Assuming stock,

Cache hierarchy is core-related, APIC identifies the core#. I get these occasionally when using unstable Curve Optimizer settings. But if it's idle-related:

Disable global C-states, or
Try using Curve Optimizer in the other direction by adding positive offset
Try different BIOSes
First two are easy but Band-Aids that don't solve the real problem.

If you haven't touched any kind of OC at all and you don't mind RMA, just send it for warranty. Early Ryzen 5000 and some Ryzen 3000 were plagued with cache hierarchy, that went away around early 2021. Sometimes the board vendor will fix their shitty BIOS and solve the problem, but severe cases across a lot of cores should just be RMA

If you're not running stock settings, obviously go back to stock


----------



## droopyRO (Sep 13, 2021)

Yeah stock settings. Just XMP enabled. I tried curve optimizer -5 all core and to disable it, also tried with PBO off. It started happening about a month ago, it was fine up until then. As said above i tried to up and downgrade my BIOS, F34, F35 and the latest F36c. My CPU was bought at launch i got it in November 2020. I think i will put the "old" 2700X back and see if it dose the same and RMA the 5600X :/

PS: it did it again a few minutes ago. I left the PC for about 10 minutes.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 23, 2021)

Surprised to see 5GHz in daily usage, not a bug, and not benchmarks at unstable curve optimizer settings:





For a poop quality CPU it is regularly clocking higher every day after fixing my C14S mount. Obviously runs cooler too without changing anything else. So perhaps it really would be a 5GHz chip all the time with an AIO?


----------



## PaulieG (Sep 23, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Surprised to see 5GHz in daily usage, not a bug, and not benchmarks at unstable curve optimizer settings:
> 
> View attachment 217939
> 
> For a poop quality CPU it is regularly clocking higher every day after fixing my C14S mount. Obviously runs cooler too without changing anything else. So perhaps it really would be a 5GHz chip all the time with an AIO?


Over that C14S? Only with one of the top AIO's. One of the EK's or Arctic Cooling.


----------



## freeagent (Sep 23, 2021)

I don’t think my chip is stellar either brotha! But I don’t think yours is poop. I bet it would run just like mine


----------



## LifeOnMars (Sep 23, 2021)

I need help with squeezing the last bit of juice out of my system now that I have adequate cooling. I have a basic 4.2Ghz overclock on my 3600(old chip not the higher clocking newer ones) and my RAM is just running standard XMP timings cl16@3200. So I'm just looking to push the ram a bit and the IF as I have a little room to grow fps wise with the 3060 Ti@1080p. Not sure if I'll get much out of my board as it's only a Matx Asrock B450 but looking for some guidance on where to start guys please.


----------



## QuietBob (Sep 23, 2021)

LifeOnMars said:


> I have a basic 4.2Ghz overclock on my 3600


What voltage do you need for 4.2 all core? What temps do you get with the Vetroo V5 after half an hour in Cinebench/Blender?


----------



## freeagent (Sep 23, 2021)

My 3600XT did 4400 all core with 1.2875v and 4500 with 1.3375v. For all loads I probably wouldn't go further than 1.2875..


----------



## LifeOnMars (Sep 23, 2021)

QuietBob said:


> What voltage do you need for 4.2 all core? What temps do you get with the Vetroo V5 after half an hour in Cinebench/Blender?


Don't know about cinebench/blender but it tops out at 1.309v/Average of 1.15v after a 9hr Prime 95 Blend test. Temps maxed out at 80c with all my fans on quiet. In intensive games using all cores to a very high percentage per core it hovers around 64c. Happy with the stability of CPU just looking for RAM and IF clocking.


freeagent said:


> My 3600XT did 4400 all core with 1.2875v and 4500 with 1.3375v. For all loads I probably wouldn't go further than 1.2875..


Yeh the newer chips will do those clocks with ease at good voltages but I have an OG 3600, they all generally topped out at 4.2 needing slightly higher volts.


----------



## Kovoet (Sep 23, 2021)

I went from a hassle free i7 7700k with Asus Maximus Formula to a AMD 5900x and the Hero VIII. I like it in game and everything except the start. Intially I throught it was the ram which I had 3200mhz corsair sticks to now having Viper 3733mhz and still got the same problem. But as I mentioned in game briilant and Saturday installing my new 3080Ti


----------



## QuietBob (Sep 23, 2021)

LifeOnMars said:


> Don't know about cinebench/blender but it tops out at 1.309v/Average of 1.15v after a 9hr Prime 95 Blend test. Temps maxed out at 80c with all my fans on quiet. In intensive games using all cores to a very high percentage per core it hovers around 64c. Happy with the stability of CPU just looking for RAM and IF clocking.


80c in Prime is OK, you shouldn't be thermally limited then. I assume you set a fixed voltage value for the CPU? Prime is good for testing cooling capacity, but your CPU may be able to attain higher clocks with more realistic workloads.

To the point, you'll need to decouple RAM and IF and test each separately. I'd suggest finding your max stable IF clock first. What are your current SOC, VDDP and VDDG voltages?



freeagent said:


> My 3600XT did 4400 all core with 1.2875v and 4500 with 1.3375v. For all loads I probably wouldn't go further than 1.2875..


Yeah, the XTs are top bins. My 3300X does 4.5 @ 1.275, but not in Prime. Yet it's stable otherwise.


----------



## HD64G (Sep 23, 2021)

Kovoet said:


> I went from a hassle free i7 7700k with Asus Maximus Formula to a AMD 5900x and the Hero VIII. I like it in game and everything except the start. Intially I throught it was the ram which I had 3200mhz corsair sticks to now having Viper 3733mhz and still got the same problem. But as I mentioned in game briilant and Saturday installing my new 3080Ti


Increasing a bit the SOC voltage should solve the problem. We have the same RAM.


----------



## Kovoet (Sep 23, 2021)

Thanks will give that a bash


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 23, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> Over that C14S? Only with one of the top AIO's. One of the EK's or Arctic Cooling.





freeagent said:


> I don’t think my chip is stellar either brotha! But I don’t think yours is poop. I bet it would run just like mine



Kinda tempted to temporarily buy a D15 from Amazon and see exactly how far off I am in performance, exact same brackets I think, I can fit it as long as I don't put the side panel on   but the rational side of my brain is screaming after the failed outcome of the last CPU cooler escapade

When the C14S has two fans, the two coolers weigh in about the same at 1.3kg

@freeagent was beating me by like 10c with his FC140 but he blasts air through the case at 3000rpm so he's a sneaky cheater


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (Sep 23, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> @freeagent was beating me by like 10c with his FC140 but he blasts air through the case at 3000rpm so he's a sneaky cheater



Yeah, I think he's the only one with a personal wind tunnel in the Great White North.


----------



## freeagent (Sep 24, 2021)

Lol.. but I moved away from 120x38s, now I just have "regular" 25mm fans 

Remember when I said 25mm fans cant move as much air as 38s? Might have been wrong..

But now its so quiet until its not.. I can hear the system on the main floor from the basement when they spool up.. its still quite savage. I was running 7x thick fans for the case, now just down to 4 skinny guys. But they have old man strength haha. I have 2x Thermalright fans to come out and be replaced with iPPC. I might leave my TY-143 installed.. always liked redheads


----------



## Taraquin (Sep 24, 2021)

LifeOnMars said:


> I need help with squeezing the last bit of juice out of my system now that I have adequate cooling. I have a basic 4.2Ghz overclock on my 3600(old chip not the higher clocking newer ones) and my RAM is just running standard XMP timings cl16@3200. So I'm just looking to push the ram a bit and the IF as I have a little room to grow fps wise with the 3060 Ti@1080p. Not sure if I'll get much out of my board as it's only a Matx Asrock B450 but looking for some guidance on where to start guys please.


Use thaiphoon burner to find out what dies you have. Report back and I can try to help. Even with low tier dies a 10-20% fps boost is possible. If you are lucky with die we can talk up to 30%.


----------



## Muaadib (Sep 24, 2021)

I'm currently in the same situation, tinkering with my 3600 I can reach 4.2@1.25v. Not sure if its fully stable yet but I plan to run Prime95 overnight to check.

Any advice on good achievable OC going forward? I personally dont want to run more than 1.3v vcore.


----------



## PaulieG (Sep 24, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Kinda tempted to temporarily buy a D15 from Amazon and see exactly how far off I am in performance, exact same brackets I think, I can fit it as long as I don't put the side panel on   but the rational side of my brain is screaming after the failed outcome of the last CPU cooler escapade
> 
> When the C14S has two fans, the two coolers weigh in about the same at 1.3kg
> 
> @freeagent was beating me by like 10c with his FC140 but he blasts air through the case at 3000rpm so he's a sneaky cheater


In that Cerebus case, a EK 240 Basic will give you so much more room to work with other hardware and will drop temps better that a D15. Not to mention the cost is about the same and the installation is ridiculously easy. If you order from EK directly, it will ship for free from Italy with an extra goodie or 2 in the box and never takes more than 5 business days to the US

EK-AIO Basic 240 – EK Webshop (ekwb.com)


----------



## Xeon (Sep 24, 2021)

Why do Asus motherboards have a TPM header? Long story short, I ended up buying a TPM module to fit the header on the motherboard just to find out that I didn't need it in the first place I feel really mad


----------



## Brainphrozen (Sep 24, 2021)

I brought my Ryzen PC earlier this year, motherboard was a MSI A320-M Pro with a 3100 Ryzen CPU 3.6GHz quad core, GTX 1650 SUPER 4GB graphics and 8gbCorsair Vengeance 3000Mhz Memory.  I have had to send it back because of the quirkiness of how some games work on it.  Just Cause 3 for example speeds up and slows down.  I think there's some kind of buffering issue going on and it's the same with Ghost Recon Wildlands. Hopefully I'll get it back soon.


----------



## YautjaLord (Sep 24, 2021)

Last time i posted here i was still smoking (cigarettes) & just got into liquid cooling (EKWB). Just dropping few pics of some components of my soon-to-be-built rig. Will make a nice video of me building & testing it, once all components are bought (case, CPU, SSD, the lot). Pics:

Mobo (Aorus X570 Xtreme):





RAM (HyperX Predator 2x8GB 4000MHz):





Will serve me till 2023, AMD's AM5 & Intel's 7nm (if not 5nm) CPUs will be available by then. Yes i know, the RAM is called Predator.  Next salary will be buying me 5900X & case (be quiet! Dark Base Pro 900 rev. 2).

P.S. Recently (April 17) finished the fully qualified (approved ?) electrician course (3x80A), that's one of the many reasons i was absent here. Plus i quit smoking in November of 2019.


----------



## Space Lynx (Sep 24, 2021)

YautjaLord said:


> Last time i posted here i was still smoking (cigarettes) & just got into liquid cooling (EKWB). Just dropping few pics of some components of my soon-to-be-built rig. Will make a nice video of me building & testing it, once all components are bought (case, CPU, SSD, the lot). Pics:
> 
> Mobo (Aorus X570 Xtreme):
> View attachment 218087
> ...



nice way to turn your life around.  no smoking and a high in demand high paying field.  well done mate!  I used to struggle in life too, now I have two jobs that I love and a bright future.  Life is what we make of it. Be disciplined with the money you make, money is freedom.


----------



## ThaiTaffy (Sep 24, 2021)

Sorry to tell you @YautjaLord but you haven't bought any Kingston ram you have a set of HP HyperX


----------



## YautjaLord (Sep 24, 2021)

ThaiTaffy said:


> Sorry to tell you @YautjaLord but you haven't bought any Kingston ram you have a set of HP HyperX



Seems like i did, shit happens i guess.  Completely forgot HyperX is the brand of it's own, plus also forgot the year when it stopped being subsidiary of Kingston. Thx.



lynx29 said:


> nice way to turn your life around.  no smoking and a high in demand high paying field.  well done mate!  I used to struggle in life too, now I have two jobs that I love and a bright future.  Life is what we make of it. Be disciplined with the money you make, money is freedom.



No fun in clogging up your lungs at all. And yes, it is high in demand & in pay profession. Thanx mate.


----------



## QuietBob (Sep 24, 2021)

Muaadib said:


> I'm currently in the same situation, tinkering with my 3600 I can reach 4.2@1.25v. Not sure if its fully stable yet but I plan to run Prime95 overnight to check.
> 
> Any advice on good achievable OC going forward? I personally dont want to run more than 1.3v vcore.


I wouldn't recommend more than 1.3v for an all core, but we can't say with certainty how high your particular chip will overclock. Silicon lottery, so you'll have to do your own testing. Zen 2 SKUs released in 2020 - the Ryzen 3s and the XT bins - tend to clock higher at lower voltages.

But do you absolutely require Prime stability? I used to swear by Prime. I wouldn't call an overclock stable until it passed multiple hours of small FFTs with AVX/2 on. But the same overclock that failed in Prime can be perfectly stable in many other - and more realistic - scenarios. Prime is a nifty tool, but for all practical purposes, it's just a tool.

I'd recommend testing with real apps then. Rather than asking "is my overclock Prime-stable?" the question should perhaps be "is it stable in the software I use?"

Watch your temps, and as long as you don't exceed your chip's rated EDC by much, you should be fine.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 24, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> In that Cerebus case, a EK 240 Basic will give you so much more room to work with other hardware and will drop temps better that a D15. Not to mention the cost is about the same and the installation is ridiculously easy. If you order from EK directly, it will ship for free from Italy with an extra goodie or 2 in the box and never takes more than 5 business days to the US
> 
> EK-AIO Basic 240 – EK Webshop (ekwb.com)



Well, it certainly is better, because the D15 and the side panel would be mutually exclusive 

I'll have to sit on that for a bit. An AIO could be tricky. If I want to keep the SFX Internal layout, I'd have to put the rad at the bottom which isn't good. If I want to go SFX Rear as I probably should, I could put the rad in the front but I'd need to get the plate. But either way I won't have a way to get any airflow to the B-die so that won't work. 

Not to mention I won't have any exhaust with SFX Rear, since I cannot fit any fans in the top of the case bc Unify-X heatsinks.


----------



## Muaadib (Sep 25, 2021)

QuietBob said:


> I wouldn't recommend more than 1.3v for an all core, but we can't say with certainty how high your particular chip will overclock. Silicon lottery, so you'll have to do your own testing. Zen 2 SKUs released in 2020 - the Ryzen 3s and the XT bins - tend to clock higher at lower voltages.
> 
> But do you absolutely require Prime stability? I used to swear by Prime. I wouldn't call an overclock stable until it passed multiple hours of small FFTs with AVX/2 on. But the same overclock that failed in Prime can be perfectly stable in many other - and more realistic - scenarios. Prime is a nifty tool, but for all practical purposes, it's just a tool.
> 
> ...


That was my line of thinking as well. 1.3v max and aim for 4.2-4.3ghz depending on temps.

Great point on Prime usage. Personally its a habit but now that I think about I rarely stress my CPU the way Prime does. Usage will mainly be gaming, coding, media consumption and some PCB design. I think I will switch to some lighter cpu or cpu+gpu benchmarks. OCCT seems like a nice option.

P.S. What do you guys think about ClockTuner for Ryzen? some people swear by it and some swear at it. It seems like it just automates the OC steps for you but the different auto-applied profiles for different loads look like a best of both worlds (All core OC + higher single core speed).


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 26, 2021)

So I'm guessing this daily 2000MHz stuff is still strictly a single CCD affair only? 

Felt like I had to try it at least once so as not to disgrace my board. Not interested in artificially suppressing WHEAs, just wanted the screenshot


----------



## freeagent (Sep 27, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> So I'm guessing this daily 2000MHz stuff is still strictly a single CCD affair only?


It seems like it! I plugged my 5600 back in for fun.. she is still a ripper


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 27, 2021)

freeagent said:


> It seems like it! I plugged my 5600 back in for fun.. she is still a ripper



Okay......idling at 23C.........I think I know what's going on here.........you keep all your windows open in winter? 

But since I fixed my C14S the core idle temps are back to about 26-27C now, similar to what I had on the 3700X. Can't get idle power below about 25-30W though, SOC is a hog at 1.125V (3-4W more than your 1CCD)


----------



## Muaadib (Sep 28, 2021)

Using CTR, I managed to set 4.25@1.25v all core and 4.3@1.325 burst. Now to see if its stable. Also looking forward to see if there is any headroom left when I get my Fuma 2 soon.


----------



## cst1992 (Sep 30, 2021)

ThaiTaffy said:


> Sorry to tell you @YautjaLord but you haven't bought any Kingston ram you have a set of HP HyperX


I have a set of two HyperX before they were HP's. A bit thicker than I'd like but no complaints so far!


----------



## ThaiTaffy (Sep 30, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Okay......idling at 23C.........I think I know what's going on here.........you keep all your windows open in winter?
> 
> But since I fixed my C14S the core idle temps are back to about 26-27C now, similar to what I had on the 3700X. Can't get idle power below about 25-30W though, SOC is a hog at 1.125V (3-4W more than your 1CCD)


Sheesh my air con is set to 30°c and that's cold for me


----------



## Ibizadr (Sep 30, 2021)

Where I can get a full aida64 for my personal use and only to see if I got improvements on ram? I want to start my ram oc but I need this to check values before and after


----------



## freeagent (Sep 30, 2021)

Ibizadr said:


> Where I can get a full aida64 for my personal use and only to see if I got improvements on ram?







__





						AIDA64 | The Ultimate System Information, Diagnostics and Benchmark Tool
					

AIDA64 is a system information, diagnostics and benchmarking solution for Windows PC. Targeting business customers, AIDA64 Business is a comprehensive IT asset management solution, which offers hardware diagnostic, network audit, change management and remote capabilities to corporate customers.



					www.aida64.com
				




I have a lifetime key from eons ago, I’m not sure how much it costs but it can’t be much.


----------



## cst1992 (Sep 30, 2021)

freeagent said:


> It seems like it! I plugged my 5600 back in for fun.. she is still a ripper
> 
> View attachment 218334


Is that 278 GFlops per core or all cores? I get 200 on my i5 4690k at 4.3GHz(183 minimum of the tests I ran). Per core then that's just a 38% improvement. Is it worth it for me to upgrade to this CPU?


----------



## outpt (Sep 30, 2021)

Well I find out today why my 5800x would not act like it should. I saw the light when my power supply went out in a flash of glory. Took it apart and it’s gone to ps heaven. What a bunch of cooked parts. Needed a new one anyway whether I needled it or not


----------



## freeagent (Sep 30, 2021)

cst1992 said:


> Is that 278 GFlops per core or all cores? I get 200 on my i5 4690k at 4.3GHz(183 minimum of the tests I ran). Per core then that's just a 38% improvement. Is it worth it for me to upgrade to this CPU?


 On my 5900X @ 4500 its over 500GFlops.. Dual CCD at play there I think..

I came from a 3770K, I guarantee the 5600X would smack the shit out of your 4690..


----------



## cst1992 (Oct 1, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I guarantee the 5600X would smack the shit out of your 4690..


Excellent, because I got a 3060Ti I'd like to exploit.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 1, 2021)

Xeon said:


> Why do Asus motherboards have a TPM header? Long story short, I ended up buying a TPM module to fit the header on the motherboard just to find out that I didn't need it in the first place I feel really mad


So you can bring the TPM module and its installed keys to another machine, and transfer the keys


Oh god that 4690K is in for a beating vs a ryzen - remember that many of these benchmarks with the Gflops etc are *not* comparable between generations
I moved from a 4770k to a ryzen 1400, and despite synthetic benches being even or sometimes worse, game performance was better... and that chip ss garbage vs modern ryzen


----------



## Xeon (Oct 5, 2021)

So you mean the guy that steals your drives can also get the keys? 

I didn't lost much time with the TPM module, but i don't think you can even enable it on the bios.


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 9, 2021)

Mussels said:


> So you can bring the TPM module and its installed keys to another machine, and transfer the keys


TPMs won't release keys if the hardware changes, so this is impossible.

It's more if you have specific needs you can use your own TPM,,ie a TPM 1.2 module instead of 2.0 or something.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 9, 2021)

It's for businesses so that if a board dies, they can re-use the TPM module and not lose encrypted data


----------



## kapone32 (Oct 11, 2021)

Xeon said:


> So you mean the guy that steals your drives can also get the keys?
> 
> I didn't lost much time with the TPM module, but i don't think you can even enable it on the bios.


On my X570 Strix E there is BIOS setting for TPM in the Advanced tab *Pro* installed no problem and all my drives are mine. I updated my Gaming laptop and it installed *Home*, which automatically encrypted my D drive without providing me with a (45 Character) key. I did not install One drive, well enable it anyway. I had to format it. As a result I had to reinstall my Steam Games.


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 14, 2021)

Mussels said:


> It's for businesses so that if a board dies, they can re-use the TPM module and not lose encrypted data


But...  that's literally not how TPM works, AFAIK.

Maybe I am wrong.  TPMs are not my favorite subject and remain somewhat understudied.


----------



## Super XP (Oct 14, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> But...  that's literally not how TPM works, AFAIK.
> 
> Maybe I am wrong.  TPMs are not my favorite subject and remain somewhat understudied.


For those that don't know what TPM is. 








						Trusted Platform Module - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Mussels (Oct 15, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> But...  that's literally not how TPM works, AFAIK.
> 
> Maybe I am wrong.  TPMs are not my favorite subject and remain somewhat understudied.


The TPM keys can be used for drive encryption, move the module (or with a firmware variant, copy the keys) and the new board can decrypt the drive


Remember, thats optional


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 15, 2021)

Mussels said:


> The TPM keys can be used for drive encryption, move the module (or with a firmware variant, copy the keys) and the new board can decrypt the drive
> 
> 
> Remember, thats optional


The keys aren't released if the hardware changes...  heck even the bios updating is enough for the TPM to throw the lockdown on your keys.  You'd need your (hopefully seperataely saved, like bitlocker tells you to do) recovery key.  That's TPM 101.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 15, 2021)

I am impressed with how much voltage these boards can feed the CPU's on their own. Even at stock clocks it still gives 1.5v+ so might as well enable PBO lol..


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 15, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> The keys aren't released if the hardware changes...  heck even the bios updating is enough for the TPM to throw the lockdown on your keys.  You'd need your (hopefully seperataely saved, like bitlocker tells you to do) recovery key.  That's TPM 101.



Funnily enough I wonder if I had my first taste of Win 11 TPM shenanigans yesterday. It always seemed like TPM is hardly used on Win 10 and 11 outside of Secure Boot-active systems.

I didn't reinstall when going from the Unify-X to the Impact. On login, Windows threw a hissy fit about re-verifying my identity and changing my PIN. Bunch of apps needed to be signed into again. Win 10 would have needed nothing aside from reactivation.

Later I updated from 3402 to the current 3801 BIOS, and upon login Windows again prompted me to reset my PIN. It is a new board but I had otherwise rebooted multiple times yesterday without it happening.

fTPM enabled but no secure boot, so no hardware/virtualization security enabled. Pretty interesting.



freeagent said:


> I am impressed with how much voltage these boards can feed the CPU's on their own. Even at stock clocks it still gives 1.5v+ so might as well enable PBO lol..



After staring at 1.51-1.54v peaks I'm now fully convinced that the SVI2 TFN Vcore is 100% bullshit at idle. The Impact has an op-amp to switch between die sense and socket sense Vcore, and when set to die sense it properly measures idle Vcore down to about 0.3v, like Ryzen Master would. Also peaks at 1.5v or less.

The SVI2 reading I find can peak higher when PBO enabled. It honestly doesn't matter what PBO is even set to since I usually only use PBO to run lower than stock limits, it just has a higher likelihood of bogus max peak numbers.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 15, 2021)

God I am such a noob it hurts


----------



## Mussels (Oct 15, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> The keys aren't released if the hardware changes...  heck even the bios updating is enough for the TPM to throw the lockdown on your keys.  You'd need your (hopefully seperataely saved, like bitlocker tells you to do) recovery key.  That's TPM 101.


changing CPU deletes the keys when using firmware based TPM

A simple hardware failure and poof, all gone (which is why i dont recommend home users, encrypt)


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 15, 2021)

Mussels said:


> changing CPU deletes the keys when using firmware based TPM


Mussels...  changing the CPU deletes ANY properly functioning TPMs keys (unless you have some sort of master key to reenroll).

Thats my point.  That is kind of TPMs point.


----------



## thesmokingman (Oct 15, 2021)

TPM = do not want.


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 15, 2021)

Bought it 7 hours ago. Should have the entire system (cooling, SSDs, graphics card, etc...) up & running by end of November, video will be coming by the same time. Can Quake Champions bot match @ 1080p & 4k/UHD be considered as gaming test?  Pic:





Case (be quiet! Dark Base Pro 900 rev. 2) coming next week. Cheers.


----------



## cst1992 (Oct 15, 2021)

Is that a 5900x or 5950x?


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 15, 2021)

thesmokingman said:


> TPM = do not want.


There are actually use cases for it but they nearly all are rooted in either data encryption or DRM...  and most of us could use less of that, not more.


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 16, 2021)

cst1992 said:


> Is that a 5900x or 5950x?



5900X. 5950X costs almost, if not twice as much as this one in this country. (Israel)


----------



## Mussels (Oct 16, 2021)

The L3 cache performance fix is live on the W11 beta channel, for anyone who needs it

You can un-enroll from beta after its live on public


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 16, 2021)

Mussels said:


> The L3 cache performance fix is live on the W11 beta channel, for anyone who needs it
> 
> You can un-enroll from beta after its live on public



I will gladly take a [relatively] prompt fix, but I'm not so sure whether it's actually fixed, still looking kinda sus.........

Also isn't it the case that you have to wait until the next major release before you actually stop getting beta builds, even after you unenroll? Unless you clean install again

Win 10 | Win 11 bugged | Win 11 "fixed":









I am overdue for another clean install though, so we'll see.


----------



## Calmmo (Oct 16, 2021)

For most people...just wait, W11 is beta enough already without double dipping in betas, just wait a week for the official release and supposed new amd chipset driver


----------



## HD64G (Oct 16, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I will gladly take a [relatively] prompt fix, but I'm not so sure whether it's actually fixed, still looking kinda sus.........
> 
> Also isn't it the case that you have to wait until the next major release before you actually stop getting beta builds, even after you unenroll? Unless you clean install again
> 
> ...


So the fix isn't good enough. Win11 is a fail for Ryzen CPUs until they make it work as well as Win7 & 10 do.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 17, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I will gladly take a [relatively] prompt fix, but I'm not so sure whether it's actually fixed, still looking kinda sus.........
> 
> Also isn't it the case that you have to wait until the next major release before you actually stop getting beta builds, even after you unenroll? Unless you clean install again
> 
> ...


Remember that we don't have the CPCC2 thingy that chooses the fastest cores yet, a small performance loss like  770 dropping to 730 is reasonable - dropping to 187 however, was f*cked



HD64G said:


> So the fix isn't good enough. Win11 is a fail for Ryzen CPUs until they make it work as well as Win7 & 10 do.


There is a missing feature from the CPU's that needs a chipset driver. That small performance loss was well known and expected (the large one was not)


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 17, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Remember that we don't have the CPCC2 thingy that chooses the fastest cores yet, a small performance loss like  770 dropping to 730 is reasonable - dropping to 187 however, was f*cked
> 
> There is a missing feature from the CPU's that needs a chipset driver. That small performance loss was well known and expected (the large one was not)



It feels like this patch partially/fully fixed the preferred cores already. I know it wasn't in the patch notes, but AIDA (the worst offender pre-patch, used to literally reverse the CPPC hierarchy) is now back to Win 10 behaviour when loading the cores.

You know what's funny? I should just bench AIDA with half a billion things open, instead of being a tryhard and doing the usual pre-bench cleanup. It has a habit of benching better with clutter, this is like the 100th time I've seen this phenomenon. Maybe AIDA just hates the CPU being idle:






L3 latency still slightly higher than Win 10, but it looks like the patch does work to some extent. Between AIDA being AIDA and Win 11 being Win 11, some variation is probably normal.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 17, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> It feels like this patch partially/fully fixed the preferred cores already. I know it wasn't in the patch notes, but AIDA (the worst offender pre-patch, used to literally reverse the CPPC hierarchy) is now back to Win 10 behaviour when loading the cores.
> 
> You know what's funny? I should just bench AIDA with half a billion things open, instead of being a tryhard and doing the usual pre-bench cleanup. It has a habit of benching better with clutter, this is like the 100th time I've seen this phenomenon. Maybe AIDA just hates the CPU being idle:
> 
> ...


yup - your numbers smash mine, but you also have way faster RAM

W11 is now within the ballpark of where it should be, and when we know more patches are coming via the AMD chipset driver no one should be concerned


----------



## Flyordie (Oct 17, 2021)

I don't have a retail copy of AIDA so... Trial version it is... 

I am impressed by how far Ryzen has come compared to where it was. My system is a prime example of that.


----------



## cst1992 (Oct 17, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I will gladly take a [relatively] prompt fix, but I'm not so sure whether it's actually fixed, still looking kinda sus.........



Here's your shots; Win10 vs Win11 fixed:









Looks like the L3 write performance is still lacking; only about 60% of where it should be.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 17, 2021)

You are on the beta channel, yes?
(Your ram is faster than mine, so ofc my results are slower)


----------



## Mussels (Oct 18, 2021)

Wait, viper posted i left my email in somewhere... the heck did i do that

Thanks for fixing if you did, bro


----------



## cst1992 (Oct 18, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Wait, viper posted i left my email in somewhere... the heck did i do that
> 
> Thanks for fixing if you did, bro


It was in the attachment file. I reported it.


----------



## YautjaLord (Oct 18, 2021)

Haven't checked yet, but i think this thing not much smaller than my HAF X. Pic:





Will have system up & running by end of December, unfortunately: water cooling system (EKWB) is one of the reasons.  

P.S. I still love my HAF X, it's just i love this case even more: it's so modular it's a bit ridiculous, actually.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 20, 2021)

Bah..

I was excited to grab the new version of Aida64.. my key is still good but I have to buy a new key to use the new version. Apparently 10 years is long enough 

I had an Engineer key as well, still good but not on the new version.

So I was running through the tests because seeing Trial Version all over the place made me feel like a noob 

So I got a bit moist when I got to the AES test..





But then afterwards I checked my temp and holy carp it hit 90!! It has never done that before with pbo.. the 90 wasn't for AES, it was for FP32 and 64 Ray trace


----------



## Mussels (Oct 20, 2021)

The secret sauce for intel is to just lower the clock speed under those workloads 

dont forget you can tweak PBO, including setting a max temp limit


----------



## freeagent (Oct 20, 2021)

Mussels said:


> dont forget you can tweak PBO, including setting a max temp limit


I did actually forget about setting the temp limit, normally its not something I need to worry about 

Maybe I need to put my old fans back in..

As I look into my case and realize my GPU is too long. Hmm.. it might work..


----------



## Mussels (Oct 20, 2021)

I mean yeah, it's a silly little thing but sometimes you just say boost away little chiplet... but you got a speed limit of 80 obamas per football field there, little friend
(translated from celcius)


----------



## freeagent (Oct 20, 2021)

We use both Imperial and Metric here, not even a tasteful blend.. if we get a blueprint that's in metric, we convert it because we measure in inches. Temps are Celsius, I buy 4 liters of milk every week, its 3 kilometers to work from here. But I watch American TV, listen to their music, eat their food, make stuff for them, buy stuff from them..

But! a bit of a detour towards your neck of the woods..

I did make Roo bars for a couple of years when I was in my early 20s.. those guys were from New Zealand. I learned to make em your way.. waxing that blade is scary as fark. It will either put hair on your chest, or give you stiches or worse. When you see that part of your glove between your thumb and index finger turn into a puff.. poof haha. I drank a lot back then. New, more genteel fellas would come and complain the work was for convicts before they left lol. Good times. Lots of overtime..


----------



## cst1992 (Oct 20, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I mean yeah, it's a silly little thing but sometimes you just say boost away little chiplet... but you got a speed limit of 80 obamas per football field there, little friend
> (translated from celcius)


I think even 85 obamas might not be that bad. We need more Obamas after 4 years of Trump...


----------



## Mussels (Oct 20, 2021)

Soc to 1.15, DRAM to 1.4v

How is this remotely stable with 64GB?
(PBO is off while i tested this stupid idea, hence lower L3 cache numbers, etc)


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 21, 2021)

Had to go back to Win 10 just for a sanity check to make sure I wasn't tripping. The L3 cache fix doesn't work, writes are still all over the place. The new chipset drivers with the preferred cores doesn't change anything.

The screenshot at the top of p.165 is the only run I've ever managed on Win 11 where writes aren't still down in the gutter around ~200-400GB/s. Yes, AIDA is unpredictable but not when it comes to L3 perf on this CPU, _every_ run on Win 10 is as it should be.

Just to be clear, 

However, it also doesn't look like it's only Win 11's fault. I'd put my thumb on either AGESA or Asus BIOS writers being part of the problem - simply downgrading back to clean Win 10 still kept my MT performance somewhat low (although ST came back as soon as I left Win 11). CPU-Z ST on Win 11 simply hit a wall at 675 and refused to go further despite hitting the same effective clocks.

Just to rule out the board, I went to the 3601 BIOS (AGESA 1201A) and now am able to match my former Unify-X (AGESA 1201B) with my 130/90/120 profile. It is a little more temperamental than the Unify-X, but the performance is there. Amusingly, Win 11 performance was so low that I scored higher on MT @ 130W with 10, than I did on MT @ 142W on 11.

Win 11 vs. Win 10:







Unify-X on 10 @ 130W vs. Impact on 10 @ 130W - proof that the board is clearly performing as it should:


----------



## Mussels (Oct 22, 2021)

So if you smash away at the L3 cache write specifically (double click retests) in W10 its consistent, but W11 its erratic?


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 22, 2021)

Mussels said:


> So if you smash away at the L3 cache write specifically (double click retests) in W10 its consistent, but W11 its erratic?



Correct. Weird, isn't it? If this was a question of Win 11 loading the wrong cores, then the CPPC2 fix wasn't even needed because Win 10 loads the same cores as pre-patch Win 11 during the L3 portion. During mem/L1 I observed it loading some non-ideal CCD1 and CCD2 cores, but during L3 it always pushes Core 0 hard ~5.0GHz - same on W10 and W11.

Just ran the L3 portion 20 times in a row on W10, and it's always 770/700/760/10.5 without missing a beat (sometimes writes dip a bit to 670 and other times up to 750, others up to 800).

I don't like to entertain conspiracy theories but this is getting ridiculous. MS has had Zen 3 performance down PAT for months. Why now?

Unless it was AMD sabotaging their own AGESA again. Which seems less likely but is not impossible, Reddit collectively seems to hate AGESA 1.2.0.4 so far.

Edit: leaning towards an even split of MS'/AMD's/Asus' fault. On BIOS 3601 and W10, CPU-Z results are now as consistent as on Unify-X, no more fluctuations. Also the CPU-bound game that was mysteriously clocking low on W11 is also back to its usual self, it wasn't the game after all. No more of that offload-half-the-crap-onto-CCD2 BS.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 22, 2021)

I wanna test with like process lasso, or disabling SMT entirely and see if that alters things
I still have a suspicion its core bouncing to the SMT threads

Disabled SMT, performance went to *shit*




Rebooted, SMT on and virtualisation turned on (same menu)




Exploit protection exemptions set, no change. I still get high results, but repeated smashing of the test makes the numbers go wild.
Giving it a pause before doing again, fast.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 22, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I wanna test with like process lasso, or disabling SMT entirely and see if that alters things
> I still have a suspicion its core bouncing to the SMT threads
> 
> Disabled SMT, performance went to *shit*
> ...



Yeah I run with default protections, but no performance-hogging virtualization or hardware-based security (I have both trusted computing and fTPM turned off for W10, and I think either Secure Boot or further setup of fTPM is required for the Hardware Security page).

There is some natural variation in the results on W10 (~100GB/s) but nowhere near what W11 does, and I never need to give it a short break before testing again. Just testing back to back and it never misses a beat. I can give it all the break I think it needs in W11 and the numbers will be equally on crack for 49 out of 50 runs.

SMT doesn't work properly on my 5900X, even on W10. It breaks some readings in HWInfo and performance is in the *shitter *in MW2019 (it'll change your whole perception of "stutter").

I wonder if I can dual boot 10 and 11 on the same drive? Can you expand a GPT partition with free space after you've shrunk it to make room for another partition?


----------



## freeagent (Oct 22, 2021)

I've just tried the fix for 11.. gotta say I am fairly disappointed. I am creating a 10 install right now. Bummer do0d


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 22, 2021)

Mussels said:


> So if you smash away at the L3 cache write specifically (double click retests) in W10 its consistent, but W11 its erratic?



Okay, retested with 3601 (1203A) this time, with L3 fix and CPPC fix. Performance is better and more predictable. Unfortunately, the invisible ST wall is still there. Inexplicable since it hits the exact same ~4.918GHz clocks in both W10 and W11.

I've taken the time to make the W11 install so clean and barebones it hurts - it can bench, search google and that's pretty much it.

Less unpredictable L3 bandwidth results (still low sometimes but 9 out of 10 are kinda okay), but now the inconsistencies manifest elsewhere. 15ns is not normal, constantly fluctuates to 11-15ns:





10 vs patched 11:


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## R-T-B (Oct 22, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I've just tried the fix for 11.. gotta say I am fairly disappointed. I am creating a 10 install right now. Bummer do0d


It drove me to Linux.  Ironically despite wine translation, AIDA64 registers great latencies there.


----------



## Chomiq (Oct 27, 2021)

Gave up messing with Dram Calculator. Used XMP timings (the one listed in the profile name, where tRC is 58 instead of 84 that's set once you enable it) with everything else set on auto. DRAM Voltage 1.4V, SOC 1.1V, VDDG 1.05V, VDDP 1.0V with OC on my Ballistix



It didn't crash during 2.5h of MemTest64 (previous attempts at 3733 with Sport LT's 3200 lead to reboot within first 20 minutes) so it looks like it's stable. Long gaming session during the weekend will show if it's actually stable.


----------



## HD64G (Oct 27, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Bah..
> 
> I was excited to grab the new version of Aida64.. my key is still good but I have to buy a new key to use the new version. Apparently 10 years is long enough
> 
> ...


190W is a bit much. I would lower the limit a bit.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 27, 2021)

HD64G said:


> 190W is a bit much. I would lower the limit a bit.


Nah.. it’s fine


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 4, 2021)

Just got a R7 5800X, having a tough choice on motherboard selection. They all look awesome.

B550 Chipset.

I've had good success with my Asus TUF Sabertooth R2.0 with the 8350, and an AsRock 970 Extreme 4 with a X2 555BE

3 boards in the Running.
AsRock B550 Steel Legend, Extreme 4.

Asus ROG Strix B550-A Gaming

Asus did not bios update the TUF B550 Gaming Pro to support the 5800X unfortunately...

Differences:
Steel Legend and Extreme 4 have Debug Code LED, support 4733+ Ram OC

Strix has Bios Flashback, Supports Ram OC 5100.

Steel Legend and Strix have DP and HDMI

Extreme 4 has Power and Reset Buttons.

I understand a APU must be used to utilize the IGPs.

All are 14 Phases and Support 5800X.

AsRock seems to be on the ball with Bios Updates.

I will be using 2x16GB Ram.

This rig is not for me but my lady.


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## Mussels (Nov 4, 2021)

eidairaman1 said:


> Just got a R7 5800X, having a tough choice on motherboard selection. They all look awesome.
> 
> B550 Chipset.
> 
> ...


It's B550, it HAS to support 5800x

Edit: their BIOS page calls it a 5800, doesnt mention the X


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## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 4, 2021)

eidairaman1 said:


> Just got a R7 5800X, having a tough choice on motherboard selection. They all look awesome.
> 
> B550 Chipset.
> 
> ...


Phases don't matter in your case. It's just a 5800X. It's gonna be a question of 50 degrees vs 60 on the VRM. Not gonna make a difference. Plus, it doesn't really make sense to overclock manually on Zen 3 since you're way better off just letting PBO do its thing with the curve optimizer.

You should also consider the B550 Tomahawk. Great board.


			https://pcpartpicker.com/product/3Mxbt6/msi-mag-b550-tomahawk-atx-am4-motherboard-mag-b550-tomahawk


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## Mussels (Nov 4, 2021)

I have a thread in my sig about getting the right power efficiency from the 5800x, you get no gains past 120W - 95W is the sweet spot, and all but the worst boards can handle that fine


All the boards have garbage software/RGB control, so get the one with the hardware features you want (M.2 slots, wifi, ethernet, whatever)
Oh and make sure it has BIOS flashback, only a few truly shit boards dont have that

You will not get RAM above 3800 stable. Dont even bother falling for that marketing.

After looking at those two and ignoring the marketing, they're basically the same
B550 doesnt leave much room for innovation


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 4, 2021)

Mussels said:


> It's B550, it HAS to support 5800x
> 
> Edit: their BIOS page calls it a 5800, doesnt mention the X




Switch to me it sounds like it's only supports the OEM chip not the extreme chip



rares495 said:


> Phases don't matter in your case. It's just a 5800X. It's gonna be a question of 50 degrees vs 60 on the VRM. Not gonna make a difference. Plus, it doesn't really make sense to overclock manually on Zen 3 since you're way better off just letting PBO do its thing with the curve optimizer.
> 
> You should also consider the B550 Tomahawk. Great board.
> 
> ...


Who said I was overclocking?

MSI-no thanks.

10 degrees is noticeable compared to 5.


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## freeagent (Nov 4, 2021)

I would go with the Strix. It’s got the power you want, most of the nice features, and their nice bios, she should be a ripper 



rares495 said:


> Ah, are you one of those people who only shops by brand in 2021? That's worth a "no thanks".


I am and it works well for me.


----------



## cst1992 (Nov 4, 2021)

eidairaman1 said:


> MSI-no thanks.


Why? The B550 Tomahawk's got a great VRM whereas the other MSI boards are lacking vs competing brands.

However, what was a dealbreaker for me is that the 2nd M.2 slot is only 3.0x2 (instead of x4) which means your second M.2 SSD will run at half speed. This was the case for almost all MSI B550 boards.



rares495 said:


> I was only trying to help but you don't seem to need it. Location checks out. I'm out.


Personal attacks look like they're cool, but actually aren't.


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## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 4, 2021)

cst1992 said:


> Personal attacks look like they're cool, but actually aren't.


Sorry. Old habit. I'll try to be better.


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## Mussels (Nov 4, 2021)

I'd skip MSI as well, and go for asus or asrock

As long as you dont get the cheapest series from either of those brands choices, you'll be fine


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## tabascosauz (Nov 4, 2021)

eidairaman1 said:


> Switch to me it sounds like it's only supports the OEM chip not the extreme chip
> 
> Who said I was overclocking?
> 
> ...



We go off CPU family names - Vermeer covers 5600/5600X/5800/5800X/5900/5900X/5950X, so if one is compatible, all of them are compatible.

B550 does not guarantee Ryzen 5000 booting support as it predates the new CPUs by months - it guarantees Ryzen 3000 support. However, if you are buying a board in November 2021, it will almost certainly support a 5800X right out of the box, because it should ship with a new BIOS considering the volume of boards that are being moved. And even in the very unlikely scenario a 5800X can't boot on a TUF, the TUF has BIOS flashback so all you need is a spare USB drive to get you up and running.

As for VRMs, no, it doesn't matter. All boards with a 8 x 50A or better VRM and heatsink will push the 142W needed to handle any 5800X with no longevity concerns whatsoever. This isn't Intel. VRM component longevity doesn't become a slight concern until 80C+, and doesn't become alarming until 100C+, and even 8 phases with 50A Vishays will be healthily below 80C at 142W.


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## Mussels (Nov 4, 2021)

BIOS flashback is god tier

Also, the 5800x does far better under 120W, same perf for much lower temps - making it even easier on the VRM's

Oh and the required intel bashing:

5.7% faster for triple the wattage, woooo


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## Taraquin (Nov 5, 2021)

Mussels said:


> BIOS flashback is god tier
> 
> Also, the 5800x does far better under 120W, same perf for much lower temps - making it even easier on the VRM's
> 
> ...


But in gaming, consumption is generally better than Zen 3, in productivity Zen 3 is far more efficient.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 5, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> But in gaming, consumption is generally better than Zen 3, in productivity Zen 3 is far more efficient.


w1zz didnt actually show gaming power draw, strangely enough


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## Taraquin (Nov 5, 2021)

Mussels said:


> w1zz didnt actually show gaming power draw, strangely enough


Yeah, but Igor lab did


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 8, 2021)

Well I went to Microcenter and they only had 2 of the 3 Boards, She preferred the Steel Legend due to the fact the packaging was more robust in protecting the Product. It' a sweet looking board.

@rares495 I only asked a question, and @cst1992, I only said the 3 boards. I also am disappointed with MSIs handling of AMD related products and they haven't had anything good since the 790 chipset.

I know MSI had good boards during the K7 days.

Low and behold I got a R7 5800 (Already had it tested at microcenter) and am currently in negotiation of getting $100 back since the person falsly advertised it as a 5800X on ebay @362 total.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 8, 2021)

The 5800 is an *awesome* OEM chip, but yeah its not an X


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## cst1992 (Nov 8, 2021)

Mussels said:


> The 5800 is an *awesome* OEM chip, but yeah its not an X


Apart from OCability, what's the difference between the two?


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 8, 2021)

cst1992 said:


> Apart from OCability, what's the difference between the two?


5800 was only sold to OEMs, not to the public. The 5800X has a base clock of 3.8GHz, turbo of 4.7GHz and TDP of 105W, the 5800 has a base clock of 3.4GHz, turbo of 4.6GHz and a TDP of 65W.

I was originally looking for a 5800, but no one was advertising  just a 5800.



Mussels said:


> The 5800 is an *awesome* OEM chip, but yeah its not an X


Yup, the person didnt think I'd know the difference and I think 262 for the trouble is fair.


----------



## cst1992 (Nov 8, 2021)

eidairaman1 said:


> I was originally looking for a 5800, but no one was advertising  just a 5800.


Sounds like you got lucky - assuming you get your money back, of course.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 8, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> But in gaming, consumption is generally better than Zen 3, in productivity Zen 3 is far more efficient.


Yup and businesses like that. Servers and workstations as well.

Intel has to strain out the cpu and they are doing what bulldozer did in 2010-2012...



cst1992 said:


> Sounds like you got lucky - assuming you get your money back, of course.


Yup, well he is willing but it has to go through paypal now. I do not do any transfers without a papertrail


----------



## Mussels (Nov 8, 2021)

cst1992 said:


> Apart from OCability, what's the difference between the two?


Basically, the stock PBO values. The 5800 is a 65W part, which doesnt have the 5800x issues of boosting so hard the cooling cant keep up


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 8, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Basically, the stock PBO values. The 5800 is a 65W part, which doesnt have the 5800x issues of boosting so hard the cooling cant keep up


But performance will be somewhat limited at stock since it will run max 76W like 5600X. I would expect allcore boost around 4GHz vs 4.4-4.5 on 5800X running stock. CO could offset that


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 8, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> But performance will be somewhat limited at stock since it will run max 76W like 5600X. I would expect allcore boost around 4GHz vs 4.4-4.5 on 5800X running stock. CO could offset that



It sounds more like a 3700X successor. So 88W. AFAIK 5600X (and maybe 5600) are the only 65W parts ever to be limited to 76W, not even the APUs are that way.

If 5700G is any indication 90W should still be no problem for a 5800 to hit some decent boost clocks not far from a 5600X. 5800X doesn't need much more than 90W to hit its sweet spot right?


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 8, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> It sounds more like a 3700X successor. So 88W. AFAIK 5600X (and maybe 5600) are the only 65W parts ever to be limited to 76W, not even the APUs are that way.
> 
> If 5700G is any indication 90W should still be no problem for a 5800 to hit some decent boost clocks not far from a 5600X. 5800X doesn't need much more than 90W to hit its sweet spot right?


On Ryzen 3000 both 3600 and 3700X ran at 88W max, I thought 65W on 5000 always was 76W. It's still the sweetspot on 5600X atleast. 84W gave me a measly 50MHz allcore at 5C higher temp and more noise.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 8, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> On Ryzen 3000 both 3600 and 3700X ran at 88W max, I thought 65W on 5000 always was 76W. It's still the sweetspot on 5600X atleast. 84W gave me a measly 50MHz allcore at 5C higher temp and more noise.



5600X is really efficient and has less cores so maybe 76W is perfect. idk if there's new rules for 5000 though. 5600G and 5700G follow the old rules. There's also a 5900 OEM that's "65W", so 76W would be pretty much impossible for a 12 core to even keep up ST performance (more uncore losses for 2CCD, games will hit 70-100W).


----------



## phill (Nov 8, 2021)

I hope I'm in the right section 

Last night I finally got my 5950X setup up and running after having it sit idle on the side for too long for one reason and another...  Can anyone suggest a few tweaks I could do, to help me get the best from the CPU/setup?  I've some 3600MHz RAM in there rather than the normal 3200MHz stuff as it on a better deal at the time of me looking to buy it..  I believe it's Samsung as well, which I guess might help matters?

Primarily it'll be for crunching, gaming, folding and whatever else you guys could think of (I guess within reason ) so I'm looking for all core performance rather than single thread performance as most of the time it'll be pegged at 100% under load.  It will be under a quad 560mm rad but at the moment, I've got it setup under a triple 420mm rad as it's not in the case and is just in my testing loop I put together last night.

For my 3900X/3950X machines I would normally set the vcore as low as I could go, then just let it boost and do it's thing on it's own but I wondered if the 5950X might be different at all?  doing this for my 3900X manages 50C load temps on all 24 threads with about 1.10vcore (the other one I had isn't so good so needs a little more) they are both under 280mm AIO's on open benches...  

Any suggestions anyone please??    Many thanks


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 8, 2021)

phill said:


> I hope I'm in the right section
> 
> Last night I finally got my 5950X setup up and running after having it sit idle on the side for too long for one reason and another...  Can anyone suggest a few tweaks I could do, to help me get the best from the CPU/setup?  I've some 3600MHz RAM in there rather than the normal 3200MHz stuff as it on a better deal at the time of me looking to buy it..  I believe it's Samsung as well, which I guess might help matters?
> 
> ...


I tend to just use default settings , actually default not auto.

Then set a 96% max CPU usage in the balanced power settings of the OS , this gives about 3.8Ghz at 1.05 volts.
And a easy switch to max , which it handles well but heats the room a bit more.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 8, 2021)

IMO, the 5800x was a panicked option at the last minute to beat intel in benchmarks, which is why its PBO values boost so high and it runs so hot vs everything else

There was room between the 5800 and the 5900x values, and they went balls to the wall instead


----------



## phill (Nov 8, 2021)

TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> I tend to just use default settings , actually default not auto.
> 
> Then set a 96% max CPU usage in the balanced power settings of the OS , this gives about 3.8Ghz at 1.05 volts.
> And a easy switch to max , which it handles well but heats the room a bit more.


So default vcore you mean for the CPU?  That's quite high isn't it to leave alone?   I just think of the folding and try to make it run as cool as possible whenever it's under full load..  

I'll give it a go   Its not crunching at the moment, but I'll run some more tests and see what temps and such come back as


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 8, 2021)

I will not be doing any OC as the rig isnt setting benchmarks or gaming, it is a major upgrade from a 478 p4.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 8, 2021)

phill said:


> So default vcore you mean for the CPU?  That's quite high isn't it to leave alone?   I just think of the folding and try to make it run as cool as possible whenever it's under full load..
> 
> I'll give it a go   Its not crunching at the moment, but I'll run some more tests and see what temps and such come back as


Yes but I mean the general oc profile in bios.

The 96% takes the core and volts down.

I'll be getting a rig or two running for the upcoming compo.


----------



## phill (Nov 8, 2021)

TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> Yes but I mean the general oc profile in bios.
> 
> The 96% takes the core and volts down.
> 
> I'll be getting a rig or two running for the upcoming compo.


I'll take a look   Thanks @TheoneandonlyMrK 

Well @TheoneandonlyMrK as promised....




Just doing a few tests with slightly faster memory at the moment..  The RAM in the system is 3600 but was only set to 3200.  With default settings (as they are above) for some reason, running the GPU test in Cinebench R15, it crashed itself..  The other CPU tests seem to have been fine so far.... and as soon as I type that, weirdness happens 

Still, what sort of voltages do you set for your hardware/s?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 9, 2021)

Got the 5800 (OEM) for $262 instead of $362


----------



## freeagent (Nov 9, 2021)

phill said:


> Still, what sort of voltages do you set for your hardware/s?


For ram I use anywhere from 1.35v to 1.6v occasionally.. where you want to be is between 1.35 and 1.45v, since you are at 1800 maybe bump SOC to 1.1v. You wont hurt anything.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 9, 2021)

phill said:


> I'll take a look   Thanks @TheoneandonlyMrK
> 
> Well @TheoneandonlyMrK as promised....
> 
> ...


I leave it on auto it pulls 1.35 loaded and in balanced profile so max CPU, but I do up the max allowed current in the motherboard vrm settings.
I found using docp flakey, at the moment I find setting Tcr to auto( the last higher timing) stablised my system it auto sets high though like 84.
With two sticks, I should spend time on it but recent GPU crashes distracted me.

Like I said I use Windows power save profile to cut usage for crunching, just set max CPU usage to about 96% (in advanced tab)and it's a nice chilled max ish.

As I said this holds mine at 3.8(150watts at the wall)

With a level easy max at hand.


----------



## phill (Nov 9, 2021)

freeagent said:


> For ram I use anywhere from 1.35v to 1.6v occasionally.. where you want to be is between 1.35 and 1.45v, since you are at 1800 maybe bump SOC to 1.1v. You wont hurt anything.


I wasn't able to get 3400 stable quickly and that I did bump up the SOC to about 1.125v (which I think was read about 1.1v...)   I need some more time with the RAM but there's all 4 sticks installed, 64GB..  Guessing it might need a fair bit of tweaks for that...


TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> I leave it on auto it pulls 1.35 loaded and in balanced profile so max CPU, but I do up the max allowed current in the motherboard vrm settings.
> I found using docp flakey, at the moment I find setting Tcr to auto( the last higher timing) stablised my system it auto sets high though like 84.
> With two sticks, I should spend time on it but recent GPU crashes distracted me.
> 
> ...


I've just tried testing it at 1.10vcore which crashed on boot up, then 1.15vcore seemed to do ok but was a little flaky.  Eventually bumped to 1.20vcore (tested a few in between) and found the following...

So 100% CPU usage in the settings, gave me about 215w full system load, running CB R15 (I'll try others tomorrow, need some sleep but this was important to try and test! )   Max temps running the bench, was about 50C as well.
So when I set 96% CPU as you mentioned, it dropped the watts by about 5 to 8w total, so dropped it down to about 208w...  Temps dropped about 2C at best (it seems CoreTemp doesn't work when I run CB and only updates afterwards!!     Overall test score results, dropped by nearly 10% as well, fair big drop there....

Any limits with volts etc. that I need to be careful with at all?  Just trying to make it as cool and quick as possible  

Thanks again for the help so far!!


----------



## freeagent (Nov 9, 2021)

215w *whistles*

She’s rippin 

Voltage wise I think you are in the right neighborhood 

I saw 240w once from my 5900X.. shake and bake.. I couldn’t control it


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 9, 2021)

freeagent said:


> 215w *whistles*
> 
> She’s rippin
> 
> ...



Full system load, not PPT  

Can you imagine 210W @ 1.2V??? Hello alder lake lol


----------



## mstenholm (Nov 9, 2021)

freeagent said:


> 215w *whistles*
> 
> She’s rippin
> 
> ...


Remember that @phill has a pump in his system.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 9, 2021)

Right: i did dumb things

Upside: 11C drop

Downside: even after flushing the loop like 3 times, i'm still getting shit appearing in my CPU block. I must have a gunky radiator 

It's extra effort to rip the socket off the mobo to help with pin safety, but worth it.


----------



## phill (Nov 9, 2021)

freeagent said:


> 215w *whistles*
> 
> She’s rippin
> 
> ...





tabascosauz said:


> Full system load, not PPT
> 
> Can you imagine 210W @ 1.2V??? Hello alder lake lol


These are figures quoted from the wall, not the CPU     It's AMD not Intel for the moment  

I think CoreTemp reports about 120w or so from the CPU...?

I have a EK D5 pump, 3 140mm Noctua PPC fans in there as well plus my 1080 TI, but that's idle...  Overall, very impressed with the power usage, even more so with 32 threads   I will try and have another go tonight and see if we can get it boosting a bit higher.  Temps are right about the 50C mark which is where I prefer them to be simply because they then have some space to move for the summer temps and such    Plus less stress on the CPU for it being loaded 100% all the time 



Mussels said:


> Right: i did dumb things
> 
> Upside: 11C drop
> 
> ...


There's no such things as dumb if there's improvements in my eyes


----------



## Mussels (Nov 9, 2021)

Between the lapping, the better LM application (used a flat piece of card this time instead of generic cotton bud) and fixing the offset, the 75C spikes dropped to this:





(This is farting about in windows, browser, VLC etc... nothing heavy, but single thread boost is where the heat was coming in)

Oh and proof she's hitting 5050MHz at those temps:


----------



## Nordic (Nov 9, 2021)

Forgive me father for I am being tempted into sin. I might have to find my 1500 / 2000/ 3000 grit sand paper.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 9, 2021)

You are forgiven my son.


----------



## Ibizadr (Nov 9, 2021)

That lapping was amazing and the am4 support to dont brake pins its a most do it. I think this is a good mod to help in temps


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 9, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Between the lapping, the better LM application (used a flat piece of card this time instead of generic cotton bud) and fixing the offset, the 75C spikes dropped to this:
> 
> View attachment 224493
> 
> ...



Looking good. I would dare sacrifice my $800cad CPU to the sandpaper gods  

Not much point now if you didn't also test beforehand, but for posterity if you want a much more consistent single thread temp test, use corecycler function in OCCT on one specific core, or the Corecycler script and edit the config file to only run on the core of your choice. At HWInfo's default polling interval 2000ms the Ryzen "spikes" are too fleeting to consistently capture in logging data, which is why sometimes you might see say 58C after booting your PC and other times 72C despite nothing appearing to have changed, or one day a game will suddenly decide to spike 10C hotter than it normally does.

On the other hand the default Core Clock metric is a little too optimistic about boosting, it will pick up every split second the CPU spent at 5050MHz even if it was way too short to ever have an effect on temps. If you use Snapshot Polling you can get a much more accurate idea of actual max boosting behaviour, without looking at Effective Clock.

Here's mucking about in Windows:


----------



## dont whant to set it"' (Nov 9, 2021)

I wanted to run this stress test only for about 15 minutes while I took a shower before having to leave for work, for witch I ended up leaving in a rush, so 11hours later, the meanwhile the attached screenshot.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 10, 2021)

dont whant to set it' said:


> I wanted to run this stress test only for about 15 minutes while I took a shower before having to leave for work, for witch I ended up leaving in a rush, so 11hours later, the meanwhile the attached screenshot.



CPU-Z is just bugged like that if you hit Stress. The scores often don't make sense - it'll dip to like 0 then for the next 5 minutes proceed to slowly climb back up to normal score, then do it all again. Happens like every other run on my 5900X when I'm testing for thermals.

Stress mode should still be hitting the CPU the same while the score is bugging out, so as a temperature test that actually reaches thermal equilibrium quickly (without constantly dipping out like Cinebench), it still works well.

In your case though, it looks like something else is bugged as it's just not loading some of the cores, doesn't happen on mine. Seems like you did something to it for only to run on 4C/8T - safe mode?


----------



## Mussels (Nov 10, 2021)

I was gaming while mining today, and with the extra heat from the GPU one core still hit 75C

The thing is... i was a good 40FPS up from where i was yesterday. No changes to power settings, simply fixing the cooling got me more perf at the same settings and temps. I need to cinebench...

15,130
PPT 108
EDC 99
TDC 68


----------



## dont whant to set it"' (Nov 10, 2021)

@tabascosauz  I'm playing with it these days in the bios with all-core oc and down-core in this case.

Yes, if I hit stop , then start benchmark again the score goes back to above 3000 points.


----------



## R-T-B (Nov 13, 2021)

So...  I just pulled the trigger on a 5950X.  My early holiday update.

Quick question to you all Ryzen peoples:

Is swapping out Ryzen CPUs on Windows 11 still producing anomalies with the cache latencies?  If so, is there a way to avoid that?  Any articles on this?


----------



## Mussels (Nov 14, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> So...  I just pulled the trigger on a 5950X.  My early holiday update.
> 
> Quick question to you all Ryzen peoples:
> 
> Is swapping out Ryzen CPUs on Windows 11 still producing anomalies with the cache latencies?  If so, is there a way to avoid that?  Any articles on this?


I had a guess that you could do an in-place upgrade install by using the setup.exe from an ISO, but it's untested


----------



## freeagent (Nov 14, 2021)

Win 11 totally T-Bags my L3 performance in Aida. A clean install is a little better than an upgrade from 10 with my system. Everything else is good though, but most CPU benches are lower compared to 10 with my system. 

Hoping the next leap will be the leap home.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 14, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> So...  I just pulled the trigger on a 5950X.  My early holiday update.
> 
> Quick question to you all Ryzen peoples:
> 
> Is swapping out Ryzen CPUs on Windows 11 still producing anomalies with the cache latencies?  If so, is there a way to avoid that?  Any articles on this?





freeagent said:


> Win 11 totally T-Bags my L3 performance in Aida. A clean install is a little better than an upgrade from 10 with my system. Everything else is good though, but most CPU benches are lower compared to 10 with my system.
> 
> Hoping the next leap will be the leap home.



Ryzen 5000 L3 performance has never been completely fixed in Windows 11, it doesn't have anything to do with swapping CPUs. I very much respect HWUB, but they were barking up the wrong tree with that tweet, unless swapping CPUs makes it noticeably even worse than it already is.

22000.282 was supposed to be the fix, didn't do a thing. 22000.318 (KB5007215) again was supposed to be a fix, didn't do a thing.

All you have to do is run the L3 test repeatedly (double click the "L3 Cache" text). On clean Windows 10, every single run should be within margin of error. On Windows 11, all 4 numbers will just do whatever they want. It's quite the night and day difference between 10 and even the latest 11. Here's a few consecutive runs (I did 15 runs, but here's some highlights):


----------



## R-T-B (Nov 14, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Ryzen 5000 L3 performance has never been completely fixed in Windows 11, it doesn't have anything to do with swapping CPUs. I very much respect HWUB, but they were barking up the wrong tree with that tweet.
> 
> 22000.282 was supposed to be the fix, didn't do a thing. 22000.318 (KB5007215) again was supposed to be a fix, didn't do a thing.
> 
> ...


Yeah.  I guess the real question is does it show outside of synthetics like before?


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 14, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Yeah.  I guess the real question is does it show outside of synthetics like before?



ST benchmarks are slightly lower, MT benchmarks bout the same here. Haven't noticed anything adverse in games, if anything all my games seem to run better in 11.

CPU clocks in game are way down in Win 11 though. Allegedly Shadow of the Tomb Raider benchmark is noticeably affected in Win 11, allegedly because of the L3.


----------



## R-T-B (Nov 14, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> ST benchmarks are slightly lower, MT benchmarks bout the same here. Haven't noticed anything adverse in games, if anything all my games seem to run better in 11.
> 
> CPU clocks in game are way down in Win 11 though. Allegedly Shadow of the Tomb Raider benchmark is noticeably affected in Win 11, allegedly because of the L3.


Since I do an allcore OC on my Ryzen for my highly threaded compiles, I sort of doubt it will impact me then.  But I can certainly see how it's not completely fixed then.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 14, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Since I do an allcore OC on my Ryzen for my highly threaded compiles, I sort of doubt it will impact me then.  But I can certainly see how it's not completely fixed then.


all core OC will likely bypass all these issues


----------



## ViperXTR (Nov 14, 2021)




----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 14, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


>



ninja'd 3 seconds before I was going to hit post 

Not going to comment on him using Cinebench to infer all-core stability (lol), but both sides have a point. Ryzen 5000 definitely looks much more resistant to degradation as a whole (unannounced N7P?). At the same time, early Ryzen 3000 owners trying the same, especially owners of bad chips, probably ends in disaster. I remember one or two Renoir APUs dropping freq after just 30 min or so of cursed Clocktuner automatically "testing" with 1.5V, I know I definitely lost some freq on my 4650G after a week of Cinebench at 1.45V.

Obviously other factors such as temp, the fact that it was really only ~1600hr of balls-to-the-wall testing, nothing said about LLC and droop, etc. But good to know that Ryzen 5000 can take it, since can't really measure FIT voltage anymore with how P95 is throttled now.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 14, 2021)

I have to agree.. 1.25v should be ok for all loads, 1.3-1.35 for most loads, and 1.4-1.45 for fringe type stuff, short term..


----------



## ViperXTR (Nov 14, 2021)

mine shoots up momentarily to this on single core (2 of my best cores according to ryzen master) , but generally 1.2v on all core stress


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 15, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


> mine shoots up momentarily to this on single core (2 of my best cores according to ryzen master) , but generally 1.2v on all core stress View attachment 225179



Single thread boost is irrelevant as long as it stays below 1.5V sustained. It's all well within stock operating parameters.

VID is not relevant to what's actually happening. SVI2 TFN Vcore shows accurately in an actual single core test, but isn't smart enough for more transient boosts or idle. You may also be able to see a socket sense Vcore under the board sensors section, off the SuperI/O on the Mortar but it might not be as accurate. Otherwise, Ryzen Master Vcore should be accurate in all conditions.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 15, 2021)

Oh good, someone finally got reliable testing!


My 3700x seemed to degrade fast, so it went to PBO settings really rapidly.

My 2700x is using pieces of SATA cable to replace three of its pins so... it's not really a good case study.


----------



## dyonoctis (Nov 22, 2021)

So my 3700x with PBO turned off boosted to 4.7Ghz. Every core somehow managed to go above 4.6GHZ...


----------



## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 22, 2021)

dyonoctis said:


> So my 3700x with PBO turned off boosted to 4.7Ghz. Every core somehow managed to go above 4.6GHZ...


That's not real. Don't use HW Monitor. Use HWInfo64.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 23, 2021)

dyonoctis said:


> So my 3700x with PBO turned off boosted to 4.7Ghz. Every core somehow managed to go above 4.6GHZ...
> View attachment 226272


HWmonitor gives bullshit numbers, use HWinfo


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 23, 2021)

Mussels said:


> HWmonitor gives bullshit numbers, use HWinfo



Yes, this 100%.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 27, 2021)

Okay, after spending a number of weeks with 11, there seems to be some fundamental changes in how 11 handles CPU-bound games, that no one seems to have talked about. At least on Ryzen.

Win 10:

Always clocks higher.
Starts off with one or both preferred cores, or Core 0. 
If more threads needed, this expands to include the rest of CCD1. Usually stops here.
Core 7 always used for background tasks unless all 12 cores in action (extremely rare).
Win 11:

Always clocks lower.
Starts off with Core 7 mostly.
If more threads needed, it'll bring the two preferred cores online for 2 or 3 cores active (+SMT).
Then if it needs more threads, it'll just steadily bring more cores online until the load is spread evenly across all 12 cores. But at low usage/volts/wattage/temp per core or thread.
The new propensity for all-core seems to help some games that weren't coded to take advantage of >1 or >2 cores in Win 10. MW2019/BFV are unchanged and run a bit cooler, CSGO/Arma 3/BL2/MCC/ROR2/War Thunder/Genshin are okay, but they all run on Core 7.

That is, until we get to Insurgency: Sandstorm. Performance is very poor only on 11. Game often rapidly jumping between 70-165Hz a dozen times a second, and not even in response to anything. Game runs almost exclusively on Core 7. No other variables aside from Win 10 vs. 11. After exhausting the game and NVCP settings it's probably unfixable, so I went back to 10 for the final time.

Yes, core affinity can be set through Task Manager, but sometimes it doesn't do anything, sometimes it just makes the game run like shit, or sometimes is simply not possible and gives "Access Denied" message (Insurgency). 

Microsoft - look at this hierarchy and tell me with a straight face that always putting 70% of the load on Core 7 is CPPC2 'working as intended':


----------



## freeagent (Nov 27, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Okay, after spending a number of weeks with 11, there seems to be some fundamental changes in how 11 handles CPU-bound games, that no one seems to have talked about. At least on Ryzen.
> 
> Win 10:
> 
> ...


That is pretty much what I saw too.. I thought I was losing it a bit.. Doubting known good settings.. starting fresh.. I will go back to 11 at some point. So pretty must touch..


----------



## Mussels (Nov 27, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Okay, after spending a number of weeks with 11, there seems to be some fundamental changes in how 11 handles CPU-bound games, that no one seems to have talked about. At least on Ryzen.
> 
> Win 10:
> 
> ...


my brother brought up issues with sandstorm as well, but as i dont play i had no answers for him

I would have suggested trying process lasso and seeing it it solved the issue (and then all the various chipset drivers, blah blah)


----------



## YautjaLord (Nov 29, 2021)

Might've underestimated how long it will take me to build the system, but overall as i said it'll be up & running by end of December, the video might just be out in January 2022.  Will have 2 more components (RTX 3080 Master & 980 Pro *1TB*) by December 12, for now. Why 1TB & not 2? Moneyz cash 1st of all, but also not too many games in my Steam library to fill up 1TB, let alone 2. 

Pics of 2 waterblocks + spare parts, all EKWB:









P.S. Yes, that's me in reflection of Vector Xtreme. 

P.P.S. Shot with Galaxy A71.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 29, 2021)

YautjaLord said:


> Might've underestimated how long it will take me to build the system, but overall as i said it'll be up & running by end of December, the video might just be out in January 2022.  Will have 2 more components (RTX 3080 Xtreme & 980 Pro *1TB*) by December 12, for now. Why 1TB & not 2? Moneyz cash 1st of all, but also not too many games in my Steam library to fill up 1TB, let alone 2.
> 
> Pics of 2 waterblocks + spare parts, all EKWB:
> 
> ...


Those are  the same parts i have, i think we're family now

Wait holy crap your PC is so close to matching one of mine, it's like every spec is one number off
Are you me, from another dimension? (Or do we just have good taste ;P )


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 29, 2021)

Mussels said:


> my brother brought up issues with sandstorm as well, but as i dont play i had no answers for him
> 
> I would have suggested trying process lasso and seeing it it solved the issue (and then all the various chipset drivers, blah blah)



Unfortunately it looks like Process Lasso just functions in the same way as Task Manager. So programs that work still work, programs that crash still crash, and programs can't set affinity still can't set affinity.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 29, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Unfortunately it looks like Process Lasso just functions in the same way as Task Manager. So programs that work still work, programs that crash still crash, and programs can't set affinity still can't set affinity.


Hmm, damn. When i played around with it, it seemed to manage things better than task manager (setting before program start, remembering settings between reboots, etc)


----------



## stinger608 (Nov 29, 2021)

So, what is the deal with Ryzen's and ram? My 3700X currently has 16gigs of ram (2 X 8gigs) and I was thinking of grabbing a 2 @ 16gig set. 

However, I've heard that 16 gig chips are "dual ranked" and they don't play nicely with Ryzen chips? 

What the heck is that all about? Or is this some stupid rumor being spread around?


----------



## outpt (Nov 29, 2021)

Got 2x16 Corsair in my rig and haven’t had any problems but I leave them at stock settings .


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (Nov 29, 2021)

stinger608 said:


> So, what is the deal with Ryzen's and ram? My 3700X currently has 16gigs of ram (2 X 8gigs) and I was thinking of grabbing a 2 @ 16gig set.
> 
> However, I've heard that 16 gig chips are "dual ranked" and they don't play nicely with Ryzen chips?
> 
> What the heck is that all about? Or is this some stupid rumor being spread around?



I haven't had any issues with single/dual rank in 3000 series or 5000 series.

Just loaded up my crunchers with these:



			https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Z4NTYDM/
		


They're single rank DIMMs, but I have 4 in each machine, so effective dual rank/dual channel.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 29, 2021)

stinger608 said:


> So, what is the deal with Ryzen's and ram? My 3700X currently has 16gigs of ram (2 X 8gigs) and I was thinking of grabbing a 2 @ 16gig set.
> 
> However, I've heard that 16 gig chips are "dual ranked" and they don't play nicely with Ryzen chips?
> 
> What the heck is that all about? Or is this some stupid rumor being spread around?


Ryzen gets a speed boost from more ranks, but can have stability issues to go with it.

If you want OC records, you want two ranks
If you want best performance, four ranks.
If you wanna lotta ram, 8 works fine.

It's stupidly simple tbh: raise the SoC voltage slightly after you enable XMP. I'm here at 3800Mhz with four ranks and 64GB with minimal effort.


----------



## stinger608 (Nov 30, 2021)

Thanks everyone for clearing that crap up.


----------



## outpt (Nov 30, 2021)

When Zen first came to the public there were compatibility problems but as zen has progressed memory incompatibility have gone away for the most part as always there are outliers. Some manufacturers using crap ic’s and so forth


----------



## Caring1 (Nov 30, 2021)

weekendgeek said:


> I haven't had any issues with single/dual rank in 3000 series or 5000 series.
> 
> Just loaded up my crunchers with these:
> 
> ...


Huh?
4 sticks of single rank in dual channel is still single rank, not dual rank.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 30, 2021)

Caring1 said:


> Huh?
> 4 sticks of single rank in dual channel is still single rank, not dual rank


No sir, it becomes dual rank.


----------



## Caring1 (Nov 30, 2021)

freeagent said:


> No sir, it becomes dual rank.


magic, ya learn something new every day.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 30, 2021)

Caring1 said:


> magic,


If by magic you mean Rank Interleaving, then yes


----------



## Chomiq (Nov 30, 2021)

stinger608 said:


> So, what is the deal with Ryzen's and ram? My 3700X currently has 16gigs of ram (2 X 8gigs) and I was thinking of grabbing a 2 @ 16gig set.
> 
> However, I've heard that 16 gig chips are "dual ranked" and they don't play nicely with Ryzen chips?
> 
> What the heck is that all about? Or is this some stupid rumor being spread around?


3700X and dual rank Ballistix 2x16 3600 kit. No problems with running it with slightly tighter timings. OC'ing to 3733 however resulted in WHEA warnings.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 30, 2021)

stinger608 said:


> So, what is the deal with Ryzen's and ram? My 3700X currently has 16gigs of ram (2 X 8gigs) and I was thinking of grabbing a 2 @ 16gig set.
> 
> However, I've heard that 16 gig chips are "dual ranked" and they don't play nicely with Ryzen chips?
> 
> What the heck is that all about? Or is this some stupid rumor being spread around?



Dual rank is good, you basically have nothing to lose as a normal Ryzen user. You get faster performance all around at the same speed compared to single rank, and better lows in games. 

The main issue with 2 ranks per channel is that you naturally suffer a penalty to your maximum achievable speeds compared to single rank. So for example, on x decent board, you might do 4800 on a single rank kit but only 4000 on dual rank kit. But it doesn't matter on Ryzen because we're limited by Infinity Fabric to 3800-4000ish anyways. It only really matters a lot for 10th gen Intel, which regularly play up to 4600-4800, but even then don't forget that dual rank has performance advantage equivalent to up to 400Mbps worth of speed.

There's not really any compatibility issues with dual rank per channel. But when you start getting to 4 ranks per channel speeds can get a bit dicey (4 x 16GB with dual rank sticks), because you get hit with a freq penalty again.

If you had a 5600X or 5800X I reckon you'd start to feel the dual rank hit on your B550 Elite though. 4-layer PCB gonna limit you to 3733-3866 on dual rank, even though the CPUs can probably do 4000. But still, dual rank is faster and dual rank is good.


----------



## stinger608 (Nov 30, 2021)

Thanks everyone for the information and your info @tabascosauz clears a ton up. 

Also, I need to revise my system specs. LOL. I'm running a Asus ROG Strix Gaming WiFi B550i now. 

Seems to be a much better board than the Gigabyte was. 


These are the memory sticks that I'm planning on:






						VENGEANCE® RGB PRO 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 DRAM 3000MHz C15 Memory Kit — Black
					

CORSAIR VENGEANCE RGB PRO Series DDR4 overclocked memory lights up your PC with mesmerizing dynamic multi-zone RGB lighting, while delivering the best in DDR4 performance.




					www.corsair.com
				





Getting them second hand. They were only in a previous system for about a week, so close to new. Getting them pretty cheap as well.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 30, 2021)

I have to really lean on my system to get single rank to even come close to dual rank.. for me, dual rank is faster all around..


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 30, 2021)

stinger608 said:


> Thanks everyone for the information and your info @tabascosauz clears a ton up.
> 
> Also, I need to revise my system specs. LOL. I'm running a Asus ROG Strix Gaming WiFi B550i now.
> 
> ...



XMP should work fine. Might need you to disable Geardown Mode, if it instead boots into Windows automatically at 3000CL16.

Can't really tell you what is in that kit - 3000CL15 used to be a good chance of Micron Rev.E but that was 2 years ago and no idea how old this kit is.

Old kits + new boards don't always work so well - recently helped my friend rebuild and his 2133 non-XMP Flare with some sort of Hynix wouldn't POST on a newer B550 Prime Plus. I have an ancient 2x8GB Trident Z kit of Samsung 4Gb E-die (yes it's that insane 2.0V overclocker) and it POSTed up just fine.

No problems with that Strix - 8-layer ITX is not only top tier on mem OC but sometimes has a bit of latency advantage as well.


----------



## stinger608 (Nov 30, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> No problems with that Strix - 8-layer ITX is not only top tier on mem OC but sometimes has a bit of latency advantage as well.



Oh sorry, it's not the "i" version it's the B550-F. 
Full ATX.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 30, 2021)

stinger608 said:


> Oh sorry, it's not the "i" version it's the B550-F.
> Full ATX.



Strix-F is nice - but direct your inquiries to @freeagent, the one true master of the Strix-F


----------



## freeagent (Nov 30, 2021)

Thanks buddy! I just got lucky that’s all 

Strix B550-F is a solid board. Though maybe not the best if you are going for all out mem clocks.. BZ and I topped out in roughly the same spot. He has an XE with 5950 compared to my F with 5900. But whatever.. not like you can use those top clocks for daily stuff.. still though, I am pretty content with the setup.. no new bios updates for a few months now so she must be done. For 8-9 months it was beta after beta.. still was good for me though, no real problems to speak of other than the ones I caused for myself


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 30, 2021)

freeagent said:


> no new bios updates for a few months now so she must be done. For 8-9 months it was beta after beta.. still was good for me though, no real problems to speak of other than the ones I caused for myself



I think AM4 in general is winding down. Latest BIOS for me is 3801, the exact same as your 2423 (just different numbering due to X570/B550), and exact same as Dark Hero which is also 3801. So if that's the best available on Asus' top dog, then either we're not being left behind or we're ALL being left behind lol

I'm not touching 3801 though. Tried once and CPU performance is horrendous across the board. Not sure what they or AMD did.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 30, 2021)

It is a little sad to hear it is winding down, but I knew this day would come last year when I built it.

Looking at the Dark Hero to cap off my system, or maybe the X570-I.. but its already a couple of years old now.

I might need two more mobos actually.. one for sure for my 5600X, and maybe one for my 5900X since Zen 3D was a recent development.. must have the last AM4 CPU made. That's what this one was supposed to be.... But I see how AMD does things now 

Also.. how is your 5900X holding up? Notice anything different? This CPU used to be quite boosty.. she's not as boosty as she used to be. Curious if it might be mitigations, like how it affected Intel, or maybe degradation. But I am not entirely convinced it has degraded. But I do know something is different, and I think they slipped us a microcode update through windows update.

But I could be wrong.. Probably wrong.. could just be in my head..


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 30, 2021)

freeagent said:


> It is a little sad to hear it is winding down, but I knew this day would come last year when I built it.
> 
> Looking at the Dark Hero to cap off my system, or maybe the X570-I.. but its already a couple of years old now.
> 
> ...



I skipped over the X570-I Strix because of it being old. My Impact is also just as old and has a similar feature set for much more $, but at least it has OC buttons, BIOS flashback, a POST code, and a good M.2 cooling solution. Still wouldn't recommend either of them though, also wouldn't recommend sinking a penny more into AM4  

Did you go back to 10 or are you still on 11? 11 basically slaughtered my ST boost across the board, only thing that didn't change was all-core. Games that boost regularly to 4.8-4.9GHz in Win 10 show up as lounging at 2.5-3.0GHz in Win 11.......Win 10 also feels snappier, which isn't surprising given how boost clocks are low when doing anything in Win 11

Performance is all around the exact same as it was in February. I don't have a very good chip, the only way I can get that magic 5.0 number to show up is to run AIDA.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 30, 2021)

I think it’s just crazy talk on my part. It boosts, I will have to review my settings I think I know what’s going on, I just haven’t been spending as much time as I used to with it. I am running 10 right now, I like 11 but they need to get their shit together and fix it. Ok we get it.. Intel is faster again.. yay.. but no need to cripple performance lol..


----------



## harm9963 (Dec 1, 2021)

freeagent said:


> It is a little sad to hear it is winding down, but I knew this day would come last year when I built it.
> 
> Looking at the Dark Hero to cap off my system, or maybe the X570-I.. but its already a couple of years old now.
> 
> ...


Dark Hero has DOCS , is one reason why I got it , to go with my 5950X, also use ASUS auto OC in the BIOS , preset for water cool,  will set PBO / DOCS / Curve Optimizer.
​


----------



## Hardi (Dec 3, 2021)

ok i'm 99% sure its some bios issue, but i just went from 3900x to 5950x, and everything is working fine, except now when i want to change VDDG CCD/IOD voltages, whatever value i put in there, it just stays at 0,99v max. on auto with ram/if 3800/1900 it gives 0,900 and when i change it to manual it seems to just lock it @ 0,99v no matter what value i put in there.
dno maybe there's some other setting i have to change before? only new thing i can see is the curve optimizer...


----------



## phill (Dec 14, 2021)

Guys, I'm wondering if you might be able to point me in the right direction, (whichever way it might be in!! lol)   Following on from the purchase thread with @Mussels ( Linky to Mussels's post )

I'm trying to set my 5950X up pretty much the same as my 3950X...  Although I'm stupid or its stupid or we both stupid in which case, I'm...... (I'll leave you all to fill in the blanks...) lol

So, from my limited knowledge of AMD/Zen all I have been doing before with my 3900X/3950X's are limiting them with a vcore set and setting to 3200 RAM and forgetting about it to be honest...  My 3950X has been rock solid, so have both my 3900X's but they have been a little different (the two 3900X's in that one requires more volts than the other and such like, silicone lottery I'm presuming ) but when it comes to my 3950X vs my 5950X, it seems I'm completely lost and I'm really stupid!  

So I've grabbed some hopefully useful info from CPU-Z, Thaiphoon reader and a few tests in the background with WCG running (which is basically what I'm trying to set it up for mostly), so any advise would be amazing.  
End goal?  Efficiency over anything else really but also if I can get 3600MHz to run on the RAM and at least 4GHz from this monster of a CPU, I would like that!    I've not been really messing about with the voltages and settings in the bios, I've not had to with the 3900/3950X systems at all, maybe due to the 3200MHz RAM in them but they just seem to work 
Voltages I can remember setting in the bios - 

CPU VCore - Auto
SOC - 1.15v - tried less, things went wrong, so just left it here for the moment
DRAM - 1.35v
RAM is 3600, but set to 3333 for the moment, didn't seem to like 3400 or 3600 - think it might have been down to the fabric link if I am correct in saying?? Hopefully.....
Load line calibration set to level 2....  Hopefully that helps...

Here goes 
A few standard CineBench tests - R15, R20 and R23

  

The Vcore tests with WCG running - 
  
 

The Thiaphoon RAM results -



I've ran WCG with the 5950X with a set voltage and an auto voltage, the more I higher the voltage up and set it at that, the lower the CPU speed goes.  If I leave to Auto, it sits about the 3.90GHz to 4.00GHz area...  My 3950X I've included the grabs for that too, here they are...



What I'm confused about for the most part, is the amount of variance the 5950X has when it's in use with a set Vcore like the 3950X.  As you can see from that screen grab, it's pretty much a solid straight line with very little movement.  I'll try and grab the bios settings for the 3950X just so we can compare if needed.  
Is there something I'm doing completely wrong at this point??  If there is, I'd love to find out so I can learn and put it right....  Both CPUs are under custom water, one a 420 rad (5950X for testing) and a 560 rad for the 3950X ..

Very much looking forward to any replies   Both CPUs use the same motherboard, a Crosshair 8 board (ones WiFi and the other isn't - Can't imagine that would make any difference tho?? )


----------



## mstenholm (Dec 14, 2021)

phill said:


> Guys, I'm wondering if you might be able to point me in the right direction, (whichever way it might be in!! lol)   Following on from the purchase thread with @Mussels ( Linky to Mussels's post )
> 
> I'm trying to set my 5950X up pretty much the same as my 3950X...  Although I'm stupid or its stupid or we both stupid in which case, I'm...... (I'll leave you all to fill in the blanks...) lol
> 
> ...


@phill these days are not good for uploading pics…..all I see is the filenames.


----------



## Taraquin (Dec 14, 2021)

phill said:


> Guys, I'm wondering if you might be able to point me in the right direction, (whichever way it might be in!! lol)   Following on from the purchase thread with @Mussels ( Linky to Mussels's post )
> 
> I'm trying to set my 5950X up pretty much the same as my 3950X...  Although I'm stupid or its stupid or we both stupid in which case, I'm...... (I'll leave you all to fill in the blanks...) lol
> 
> ...


What do you mostly do? Gaming? Productivity? I would use curve optimizer with pbo at 0 and set a PPT limit. This way you get the best from all three world: Good single core at low voltage, good allcore similar to static allcore and very low idle/load consumption due to low temps/voltage. If you are unlucky with a few core you will probably get better allcore efficiency with CO since you can run other cores much better. A static clock is only as good as your worst core allows.

Example: 2 core do -30, 4 do -25, 1 do -20, 5 do -15, 2 do -10 and 2 do -5. The -5 cores allows for 4.2GHz@1.15V, while the 2 -30 allows for 4.6GHz@1.15V, with a static OC you lose out on performance.


----------



## Flyordie (Dec 14, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I think AM4 in general is winding down. Latest BIOS for me is 3801, the exact same as your 2423 (just different numbering due to X570/B550), and exact same as Dark Hero which is also 3801. So if that's the best available on Asus' top dog, then either we're not being left behind or we're ALL being left behind lol
> 
> I'm not touching 3801 though. Tried once and CPU performance is horrendous across the board. Not sure what they or AMD did.



Your post made me check Gigabyte for BIOS update for my board.. and sure enough there is a new update. 11-30-2021...


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 14, 2021)

Flyordie said:


> Your post made me check Gigabyte for BIOS update for my board.. and sure enough there is a new update. 11-30-2021...



Some were speculating that Gigabyte is the only one addressing the vulnerability because they're more "forward thinking". Others were saying that Gigabyte is the only one that needs it because only their BIOS-level security is poor compared to other vendors.

Whatever the case might be, all Asus boards are still on the same 1.2.0.3C BIOS (3801 for X570, 2423 for B550) after all this time.

Some redditor says that the new update packaging is more secure and brings it up to par with competitors:





I'm guessing the .CAP file that Asus BIOSes usually come in, refers to this new format. My B550I Aorus Pro AX hasn't made the switch yet, still on F14.


----------



## Flyordie (Dec 14, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Some were speculating that Gigabyte is the only one addressing the vulnerability because they're more "forward thinking". Others were saying that Gigabyte is the only one that needs it because only their BIOS-level security is poor compared to other vendors.
> 
> Whatever the case might be, all Asus boards are still on the same 1.2.0.3C BIOS (3801 for X570, 2423 for B550) after all this time.
> 
> ...



Well, I'll be updating to it tomorrow maybe. Depends how well I feel. lol. Currently sick. NO.. its not COVID. lol.

I am hoping they did some bug fixes too. A simple one is the voltage setting for the main CPU volt rail. Set it to manual and it defaults to 1.6V no matter what setting you set. Its stupid. Only way to manually adjust voltage is in OS with Ryzen Master now.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 14, 2021)

phill said:


> Guys, I'm wondering if you might be able to point me in the right direction, (whichever way it might be in!! lol)   Following on from the purchase thread with @Mussels ( Linky to Mussels's post )
> 
> I'm trying to set my 5950X up pretty much the same as my 3950X...  Although I'm stupid or its stupid or we both stupid in which case, I'm...... (I'll leave you all to fill in the blanks...) lol
> 
> ...


Oof, all the images are dead thanks to the TPU server emergency

It's PBO settings you need to be tweaking, combined with the curve undervolting on zen3 chips

higher voltage means more wattage used, which makes you hit the PBO limits faster for lower clocks
The curve undervolt means less voltage used, so you get higher clocks within the same PBO limits


----------



## phill (Dec 14, 2021)

mstenholm said:


> @phill these days are not good for uploading pics…..all I see is the filenames.





Taraquin said:


> What do you mostly do? Gaming? Productivity? I would use curve optimizer with pbo at 0 and set a PPT limit. This way you get the best from all three world: Good single core at low voltage, good allcore similar to static allcore and very low idle/load consumption due to low temps/voltage. If you are unlucky with a few core you will probably get better allcore efficiency with CO since you can run other cores much better. A static clock is only as good as your worst core allows.
> 
> Example: 2 core do -30, 4 do -25, 1 do -20, 5 do -15, 2 do -10 and 2 do -5. The -5 cores allows for 4.2GHz@1.15V, while the 2 -30 allows for 4.6GHz@1.15V, with a static OC you lose out on performance.





Mussels said:


> Oof, all the images are dead thanks to the TPU server emergency
> 
> It's PBO settings you need to be tweaking, combined with the curve undervolting on zen3 chips
> 
> ...


Sorry guys, they worked when I put them up (wondering if to do todays update.....)

I would love to do some gaming but I seem to spend most of my time looking through websites and crunching...  Currently, set to Auto vcore, I'm pulling about 210w from the wall with all 32 threads loaded and working away, with my 1080 TI and a basic custom water setup...  That's running about the 3.80GHz mark at the moment...  I've never really used the PBO method, so best go and see what that's all about 

I'll see if I can upload the pics elsewhere just so they are showing, hopefully that'll help a bit 

EDIT -  I'll hang on and wait till the images are fixed, I'll get some better ideas and knowledge then, at the moment, I simply have no idea and I'd rather not do damage the CPU   Trying to keep the core clock as high as possible and the temps as low as possible    So far, auto vcore (for some reason) seems to be the best.  Have CB R23 looping for 10 minutes, the temp has hit 52C and stuck there, 3.86GHz so not too far off the 4.00GHz target.... Power usage, 198w full system load


----------



## Mussels (Dec 15, 2021)

The images died because TPU's servers died and w1zzard had to restore from a backup, losing a few hours of images

The clock is pre-set, based on the voltage. If you set a static voltage, you're also locking the max clock speed.


----------



## phill (Dec 15, 2021)

Mussels said:


> The images died because TPU's servers died and w1zzard had to restore from a backup, losing a few hours of images
> 
> The clock is pre-set, based on the voltage. If you set a static voltage, you're also locking the max clock speed.


That's never really given me any problems with the performance and setup, most of the games I did get to play I would be limited by other things than my GPU, probably me more so!    My aim is to keep the CPU as cool as possible whilst maintaining the highest boost I can.  Since whenever the PC is on, it's always under a 100% load, so 50C temps are my aim so when the summer hits, they might spike to about 60C if its rather warm..  That said, with my little AC unit now, it might get a bit cooler again....


----------



## Taraquin (Dec 15, 2021)

phill said:


> Sorry guys, they worked when I put them up (wondering if to do todays update.....)
> 
> I would love to do some gaming but I seem to spend most of my time looking through websites and crunching...  Currently, set to Auto vcore, I'm pulling about 210w from the wall with all 32 threads loaded and working away, with my 1080 TI and a basic custom water setup...  That's running about the 3.80GHz mark at the moment...  I've never really used the PBO method, so best go and see what that's all about
> 
> ...


The pbo 0+curve optimizer will net you around 200MHz more allcore at same consumption so really worth it


----------



## phill (Dec 15, 2021)

Thanks for the help    What sort of Vcore could I set it to?  Trying to set at like 1.0Vcore like my 3900X was a big no no lol


----------



## freeagent (Dec 15, 2021)

For straight crunching like with WCG I think it’s better to run an all core clock, 1 speed 1 voltage.. but for everything else PBO is the way to go most of the time  

I use 1.25v for 4500 and that is all load stable. 4600 comes at 1.35 and that’s good for everything except the most stressful of loads.


----------



## phill (Dec 15, 2021)

freeagent said:


> For straight crunching like with WCG I think it’s better to run an all core clock, 1 speed 1 voltage.. but for everything else PBO is the way to go most of the time
> 
> I use 1.25v for 4500 and that is all load stable. 4600 comes at 1.35 and that’s good for everything except the most stressful of loads.


What sort of temps do you get with those @freeagent ?    I'm trying to keep it low, 50's if I'm honest...  Crunching is a long game in my opinion, there's no end in sight at all, just let them keep coming


----------



## Taraquin (Dec 15, 2021)

phill said:


> Thanks for the help    What sort of Vcore could I set it to?  Trying to set at like 1.0Vcore like my 3900X was a big no no lol


For pbo+CO you dont set vcore, you modify the voltage curve through values from 0 to -30.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 15, 2021)

phill said:


> What sort of temps do you get with those @freeagent ?  I'm trying to keep it low, 50's if I'm honest... Crunching is a long game in my opinion, there's no end in sight at all, just let them keep coming


High 50s low 60s at 4500, and a bit spicier at 4600 with temps in the low to mid 70s..

Edit:

Whoops mid to high 70s at 4600..


----------



## Mussels (Dec 15, 2021)

phill said:


> That's never really given me any problems with the performance and setup, most of the games I did get to play I would be limited by other things than my GPU, probably me more so!  My aim is to keep the CPU as cool as possible whilst maintaining the highest boost I can. Since whenever the PC is on, it's always under a 100% load, so 50C temps are my aim so when the summer hits, they might spike to about 60C if its rather warm.. That said, with my little AC unit now, it might get a bit cooler again....


Then you want to adjust PBO settings, and possibly just set a max CPU temp value

60C as a goal would be laughable with a 5800x, fyi> i can do it MT, but not ST.

Heat is what we have be trained to see is bad, amperage is what kills the CPUs - so 4.7GHz all core at 60C could kill a chip while 5.05Ghz boost with low threads at 80C wont


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (Dec 15, 2021)

phill said:


> What sort of temps do you get with those @freeagent ?  I'm trying to keep it low, 50's if I'm honest... Crunching is a long game in my opinion, there's no end in sight at all, just let them keep coming



Hey Phill - For reference I just set up a 5950x as a 24/7 WCG box.  I started by setting the BIOS to the 95w Eco mode (10w less than stock by lowering PPT, EDC, and TDC).  That gave me 16c/32t at around 3.4GHz on all cores @ 52c on a Scythe Mugen 5B.  I figured that was too slow and cool so I brought it back to just stock.  It's now 3.8 on all cores @59c.  Ambient room temp is 20-21c

You'll probably gain some more MHz by attempting to optimize each core with a negative offset, but only you can decide if it's worth the time and effort.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 15, 2021)

weekendgeek said:


> but only you can decide if it's worth the time and effort


For WCG? Nah not worth it. All core or bust, unless you run PBO right to the thermal edge, but even still.. not really worth it to me. Results are fairly similar..

Now with water? I would be interested in trying.. someone just has to send me a loop 

But in the end I am not a pro,, I only played with it for about a month or two..

And some of you guys have big pulsing brains, unlike moi


----------



## Mussels (Dec 16, 2021)

Ah, if you're doing WCG then yeah you're gunna want static all core, at efficient settings


----------



## Mussels (Dec 16, 2021)

Aww damnit

Time to play with core cycler again, got a WHEA error and a crash overnight


----------



## Taraquin (Dec 17, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Aww damnit
> 
> Time to play with core cycler again, got a WHEA error and a crash overnight
> View attachment 229200


No, just adjust the negative on no 14 slightly. Usually 1 tick fixes it


----------



## HD64G (Dec 19, 2021)

For anyone in need of higher clocks in his Zen CPU I have a suggestion to do. Since the RAM timings contribution in the system's performance increase have diminishing returns when you get too far, I would loosen the timings a bit to allow the same stable system with lower SOC voltage. This decrease allows more power to get to the cores of the CPU when the power limit isn't ultra high (stock or close to that) and thus, to reach higher core clocks. In my case when I managed to reduce the SOC voltage from 1,125v to 1,1v without losing in stability (-2 clicks in the UEFI) the cinebench R20 score raised from 2800 to 2840.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 20, 2021)

Turned out i'd been daft, and raised the PBO values to +200Mhz as well as -20 on the curve optimiser - simply forgotten why i'd lowered it.
At stock speeds, -20 on all cores, but -14 on core 3 seems stable.


----------



## Taraquin (Dec 20, 2021)

HD64G said:


> For anyone in need of higher clocks in his Zen CPU I have a suggestion to do. Since the RAM timings contribution in the system's performance increase have diminishing returns when you get too far, I would loosen the timings a bit to allow the same stable system with lower SOC voltage. This decrease allows more power to get to the cores of the CPU when the power limit isn't ultra high (stock or close to that) and thus, to reach higher core clocks. In my case when I managed to reduce the SOC voltage from 1,125v to 1,1v without losing in stability (-2 clicks in the UEFI) the cinebench R20 score raised from 2800 to 2840.


Lowering timings should not affect what soc voltage you need, lowering infinity fabric speed does. On my system running 38000/1900 tight or loose needs 1.06V soc and 0.98V iod. Going to 4000/2000 I need 1.11V soc and 1.03V iod no matter what timings I use  In CB this translates to 1-2% score for me since clockspeed is 50-75MHz lower. In games 4000cl16 tuned is a bit better than 3800cl15 so better BW makes up for it. 

Another suggestion for improving is lowering VDDG CCD and VDDP as these usually run at 1.1V each on auto which is far above required. In reality only 0.85-1.00V og CCD is required and 0.8-1.00V og VDDP is required. This steals a lot from CPU budget.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 22, 2021)

HWinfo got an update

Added monitoring of L3 Cache temperatures and clocks for AMD Zen CPUs.


----------



## Chomiq (Dec 22, 2021)

Just updated from F30 to F35, AGESA 1.2.0.3b - they finally fixed the temperature spikes in idle:




Why not latest with 1.2.0.4A? Supposedly that version of AGESA has some VDDG issues.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 22, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> Just updated from F30 to F35, AGESA 1.2.0.3b - they finally fixed the temperature spikes in idle:
> View attachment 229788
> Why not latest with 1.2.0.4A? Supposedly that version of AGESA has some VDDG issues.



I still get spikes on 1.2.0.3C

Havent had anything newer than that, last update for my board was late sept


----------



## phill (Dec 24, 2021)

weekendgeek said:


> Hey Phill - For reference I just set up a 5950x as a 24/7 WCG box.  I started by setting the BIOS to the 95w Eco mode (10w less than stock by lowering PPT, EDC, and TDC).  That gave me 16c/32t at around 3.4GHz on all cores @ 52c on a Scythe Mugen 5B.  I figured that was too slow and cool so I brought it back to just stock.  It's now 3.8 on all cores @59c.  Ambient room temp is 20-21c
> 
> You'll probably gain some more MHz by attempting to optimize each core with a negative offset, but only you can decide if it's worth the time and effort.





freeagent said:


> For WCG? Nah not worth it. All core or bust, unless you run PBO right to the thermal edge, but even still.. not really worth it to me. Results are fairly similar..
> 
> Now with water? I would be interested in trying.. someone just has to send me a loop
> 
> ...





Mussels said:


> Ah, if you're doing WCG then yeah you're gunna want static all core, at efficient settings


The 5950X's are beasts and work very well when they are tuned better, I find the happy medium is keeping them in the 50's range for temps (C range of temps, F range might be a little hard pushed!!  ) but its personal preference I think.

I don't see the point in pushing it too the limit with the temps because as it's been mentioned the rewards and the power consumption don't really give much over the standard settings...  

What VCore do you have set on the CPU if you've changed it at all?  I've found with previous 3 series Ryzen CPUs more so, that I could lower the VCore back to like 1.0v and it still give some brilliant performance, but the actually system wattage is about the 140w under full load.  I didn't get as much luck with either 5950X CPU's I've tried so far but my 3950X seems to be ok...  I set the Vcore to a fixed rating and keep an eye to the temps.  If I'm happy with the temps I'll crunch on it...
At the moment this is my daily rig so it's at the moment, busy lol    Copying data, ripping, crunching and posting up WCG stats and whatever else Google Chrome is using nearly 8GB of RAM for     Here's a screen grab for it at the moment ....





I've not had my 5950X rig on much but that'll go on tomorrow so I can find the bios screen grabs I'd like to show you guys so I can understand what the heck I need to change in there to get a bit more performance out of it with some luck      I think that is running about the 3.80GHz +/- and hitting about the 52 - 55C mark ish under custom water (triple 420 rad, nothing exciting at all) but it's working.  The 3950X is under a quad 560 rad..  Fans are turned down a lot and sadly they are different models to what's installed on the triple and the triple is like a test bench but the 560 rad is in a case, which might not be doing such great things for the temps...  

Thank you for the pointers guys, very appreciative!


----------



## freeagent (Dec 24, 2021)

phill said:


> What VCore do you have set on the CPU if you've changed it at all?


For when I run all core clocks, I usually limit it to 1.25v and 4500MHz.. temps are usually around the mid 50s to about 60 or so.. My fans are nice and quiet like that  My absolute max all load speed is 4600 at 1.3v, but with something like Linpack, it gets pretty intense, and I could probably use some of that WC gear 

But I normally don't bother with all core stuff, as I do enjoy the single core performance the CPU offers, and letting it control its clocks (sorta) it will boost about 150MHz higher than my comfy all core speed but fans are moving at a "medium" pace so its a bit loud 

Either way, performance is outstanding no matter which road you choose..


----------



## Mussels (Dec 24, 2021)

@phill the 5800x i have is a different beast, as it was twice the wattage per CCX than you have. Keeping 50C on this would cripple it's performance. 5900x is the dream with two 6 cores, spreading that heat out far more efficiently.

As its summer here i'm in a tweaking binge to minimise wattage and heat output (40C ambients are about to begin)

I want the ST boost for the gaming, but want to stop these semi-random 80C spikes. I lapped the CPU, but think i need to lap the block as well next time.


----------



## YautjaLord (Dec 24, 2021)

End of the year discount, 30% off. 
Pic:


----------



## phill (Dec 24, 2021)

Mussels said:


> @phill the 5800x i have is a different beast, as it was twice the wattage per CCX than you have. Keeping 50C on this would cripple it's performance. 5900x is the dream with two 6 cores, spreading that heat out far more efficiently.
> 
> As its summer here i'm in a tweaking binge to minimise wattage and heat output (40C ambients are about to begin)
> 
> I want the ST boost for the gaming, but want to stop these semi-random 80C spikes. I lapped the CPU, but think i need to lap the block as well next time.


I heard something about that, something like it was better to actually get a 5900X than it was to get the 5800X...  Crazy....


----------



## Mussels (Dec 25, 2021)

phill said:


> I heard something about that, something like it was better to actually get a 5900X than it was to get the 5800X...  Crazy....


It's not like they consume more power or they're in any danger from the temps, it's just that the heat is so dense you simply cant cool it well, no matter what you do

Custom loop and liquid metal TIM, still seeing 80C
Is it fast? F*ck. Yes. That ST performance is magic.
Does it output intel levels of wattage? not at all

It's like the days when intel used shitty TIM under the IHS, theres just a power limit before heats cant be cooled any more.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 25, 2021)

An action shot running WCG:


----------



## Mussels (Dec 25, 2021)

Canadian flag exhaust tickles me the right way


----------



## freeagent (Dec 25, 2021)

What do you guys think of this board? Its on sale..

MSI MEG B550 UNIFY-X AM4 ATX AMD Motherboard - Newegg.ca​


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 25, 2021)

freeagent said:


> What do you guys think of this board? Its on sale..
> 
> MSI MEG B550 UNIFY-X AM4 ATX AMD Motherboard - Newegg.ca​



Buy mine? It's still upon FB marketplace since people seem to think that 2DIMM = bad   

I was pleasantly surprised by MSI, they only need serial number for RMA. When I sold my TUF the guy asked for original receipt, which I didnt understand until I checked Asus policy


----------



## YautjaLord (Dec 25, 2021)

freeagent said:


> An action shot running WCG:
> 
> View attachment 230083
> 
> ...



I like the monitors too.  How much watt each pump? Sorry for OT.

Also, nice temps.  :


----------



## freeagent (Dec 25, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Buy mine? It's still upon FB marketplace since people seem to think that 2DIMM = bad


I took it out of my cart.. couldn't do it..  Asus has been good to me over the years and having a hard time leaving.. have yet to make any kind of decision yet.. need some breakfast first now that I have been up for a few hours 



YautjaLord said:


> I like the monitors too.  How much watt each pump? Sorry for OT.
> 
> Also, nice temps.



Thanks! Not much as my amp is only 40wx 7  The sub is an old Monitor Audio FB-210, only 250w RMS.. but still sounds ok..


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Dec 25, 2021)

Thinking of swapping out my 3800x for a 5600G, It matches my my use pretty good with a Vega64 and one nvme.
Mostly because the 3800 has better pciex support for use in a new test rig/server/possible folding cruncher.
I have the 5600G and a MSI board due to random purchase for someones pc but didn't pan out can't return it.


----------



## mama (Dec 25, 2021)

freeagent said:


> An action shot running WCG:
> 
> View attachment 230083
> 
> ...


I tried getting some info or a review on the ThermalRight cooler of yours 'çause it looks interesting.  Wasn't very successful.  Where can you point me?


----------



## freeagent (Dec 25, 2021)

mama said:


> I tried getting some info or a review on the ThermalRight cooler of yours 'çause it looks interesting.  Wasn't very successful.  Where can you point me?


I couldn't tell you.. I am a long time Thermalright user, I bought it the day they announced it and had it a week later


----------



## thesmokingman (Dec 25, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I think AM4 in general is winding down. Latest BIOS for me is 3801, the exact same as your 2423 (just different numbering due to X570/B550), and exact same as Dark Hero which is also 3801. So if that's the best available on Asus' top dog, then either we're not being left behind or we're ALL being left behind lol
> 
> I'm not touching 3801 though. Tried once and CPU performance is horrendous across the board. Not sure what they or AMD did.


Have you tried the modded bios, that is if your board is supported? Ze Germans have exposed a bit of the hidden features, it's kinda cool.









						[Sammelthread] - ASUS X570 Strix Series (X570-E Gaming, X570-E Gaming Wifi II, X570-F Gaming, X570-I Gaming)
					

ROG Strix X570-E Gaming ROG Strix X570-E Gaming Wifi II ROG Strix X570-F Gaming ROG Strix X570-I Gaming BIOS/UEFI Versionen Reviews & VRM Häufig gestellte Fragen        BIOS Mods     Changelog Download   Flashing and using on your own risk! Added VDDP Voltage Might be helpful for CPU...




					www.hardwareluxx.de


----------



## Mussels (Dec 26, 2021)

TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> Thinking of swapping out my 3800x for a 5600G, It matches my my use pretty good with a Vega64 and one nvme.
> Mostly because the 3800 has better pciex support for use in a new test rig/server/possible folding cruncher.
> I have the 5600G and a MSI board due to random purchase for someones pc but didn't pan out can't return it.


Isnt the 5600g "full" PCI-E lanes, with the one catch of being 3.0?



thesmokingman said:


> Have you tried the modded bios, that is if your board is supported? Ze Germans have exposed a bit of the hidden features, it's kinda cool.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Theres a what now??


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 26, 2021)

thesmokingman said:


> Have you tried the modded bios, that is if your board is supported? Ze Germans have exposed a bit of the hidden features, it's kinda cool.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ah, about that, it looks like it's only for the Strix boards. I have a ROG Impact. The added features list is just the stuff that Asus took away from the Strix boards (which is a damn travesty) - they're all still there in the ROG BIOS.

Seems like there's a new 3901 BIOS out now with AGESA 1205. But feeling lazy right now and not enthusiastic about redoing the billion settings I have


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Dec 26, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Isnt the 5600g "full" PCI-E lanes, with the one catch of being 3.0?
> 
> 
> Theres a what now??


I don't see a pciex4 GPU in my coming months and it does do 3.0x16 to the GPU.
It's a minor sacrifice for the possibility to test some other GPU I have sat around, I could with the 5600g though I suppose.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 26, 2021)

TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> I don't see a pciex4 GPU in my coming months and it does do 3.0x16 to the GPU.
> It's a minor sacrifice for the possibility to test some other GPU I have sat around, I could with the 5600g though I suppose.


I meant that with the exception of a 4.0 NVME drive, is there really a loss?

I was wondering if you thought it was like the older APU's where it lost PCI-E lanes


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Dec 26, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I meant that with the exception of a 4.0 NVME drive, is there really a loss?
> 
> I was wondering if you thought it was like the older APU's where it lost PCI-E lanes


Seems perfect besides 6/12 cores I game on it occasionally, also I am thinking I might have to solder cables onto this Vega, it's been hammered to the extent the power pins are tarnished to all hell, they're giving me issues occasionally.


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## Mussels (Dec 26, 2021)

Lap your CPU pins, it's the only way to be sure


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Dec 26, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Lap your CPU pins, it's the only way to be sure


I think I confused you, I meant the 8pin power connectors sorry.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 26, 2021)

What do you think of this board?

ASUS ROG STRIX X570-E GAMING WIFI II AM4 ATX AMD Motherboard - Newegg.ca


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## thesmokingman (Dec 26, 2021)

freeagent said:


> What do you think of this board?
> 
> ASUS ROG STRIX X570-E GAMING WIFI II AM4 ATX AMD Motherboard - Newegg.ca


I like it, cheaper than CH yet still has the same vrm and external temp sensor inputs.


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## freeagent (Dec 26, 2021)

thesmokingman said:


> I like it, cheaper than CH yet still has the same vrm and external temp sensor inputs.


My thoughts exact, and has the fancy schmancy oc switcher thinger


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## thesmokingman (Dec 26, 2021)

freeagent said:


> My thoughts exact, and has the fancy schmancy oc switcher thinger


Yea. The E is the only one of the cheaper strix line though. Below E, the F gets the lower grade vrms and loses the WC focused temp sensor inputs. Here's mine in the middle of installing a new res.


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## Mussels (Dec 26, 2021)

TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> I think I confused you, I meant the 8pin power connectors sorry.


Lap. Them. ALlllll.




freeagent said:


> What do you think of this board?
> 
> ASUS ROG STRIX X570-E GAMING WIFI II AM4 ATX AMD Motherboard - Newegg.ca



It seems.... familiar somehow



thesmokingman said:


> Yea. The E is the only one of the cheaper strix line though. Below E, the F gets the lower grade vrms and loses the WC focused temp sensor inputs. Here's mine in the middle of installing a new res.
> 
> View attachment 230239



*Cries in budget x570*
The VRM change really doesnt matter unless you're running a 16 core beast on the board, as they're still better than most - and it's got temp sensor headers still


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## YautjaLord (Jan 7, 2022)

Graphics card (RTX 3080 Master rev. 2.0) will arrive next Friday, along with the rest of equipment (EKWB, cablemod), til then decided to see if cables i have (cablemod as well) are lengthy enough:



This case is still a beast, close up shot just to prove it:



HAF X here is on a wheels!


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## freeagent (Jan 9, 2022)

I have been playing with my 5600X again, just getting reacquainted.. I wish my 5900X was as fun to play with lol.








I only let it do a few runs at C14, I will let it run tonight, but I am pretty sure it was good from previous testing. Not bad for 3200C14.. voltage was 1.55v.. using a mildly tuned XMP profile.. because I have much to learn


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## Mussels (Jan 10, 2022)

Any previous posts about temp issues here, were due to contaminants clogging my CPU block up

Looks like an ongoing issue til it all leaves the loop. sad.


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## Mussels (Jan 11, 2022)

Watercooling fixed

CPU temps were in the low 50's with GPU at 35-40C in DX12 gaming


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## Recca29 (Jan 12, 2022)

Anyone got a overclocked Ryzen 3500?


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## Mussels (Jan 13, 2022)

Blood for the blood god (Lisa Su)

I'll need an RTX 3090Ti 48GB sticker soon, that ones falling apart


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## Chomiq (Jan 13, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Blood for the blood god (Lisa Su)
> 
> I'll need an RTX 3090Ti 48GB sticker soon, that ones falling apart
> 
> View attachment 232179


Blood god requests red RAM LEDs.


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## Mussels (Jan 13, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> Blood god requests red RAM LEDs.


they cycle, so its more like... blood dripping down a rainbow


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## YautjaLord (Jan 14, 2022)

Vortez guy is right - it is colossal:





Also 1st card to run anything i have (AvP 2010, Quake Champions, DOOM Eternal, etc......) @ 4k.


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## freeagent (Jan 14, 2022)

Girthy!


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## YautjaLord (Jan 14, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Girthy!



Not for long once Vector Xtreme is installed.  One question tho, have anyone of you peeps used or use one of these? Wanna go for serial version just to keep the water cooling theme of the rig (EKWB). Cheers.


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## Raven Rampkin (Jan 17, 2022)




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## Mussels (Jan 18, 2022)

3933 on RAM for zen? that's pretty impessive

Been tweaking my settings and testing for efficiency due to the weather going anywhere from 20C to 39C in the last 2 weeks.

If i run a 4.6GHz all core OC at 1.2V, i get the following values:

60C load
TDC 67A
EDC 90A
PPT 106W (in DX11/DX12 games, ususally sits around 55-60W)

But if i use PBO and enter those values, i end up with 4.35GHz in heavy load benchmarks like R23 - and 10C higher temps.

Checking HWinfos "average core count" usage while gaming, i'm anywhere from 2-6 cores depending on the title. So from a pure gaming perspective, PBO with settings that hurt heavily MT testing would be fine, as the games dont use all those cores.

It's just a bitch with these high ambients, because the high temps stop the CPU from even boosting to the 4850/5050Mhz it's capable of normally... so PBO loses the single threaded and multithreaded benefits, since the 5800x is a PITA to cool.

For now, i'll sit with a 4.6GHz all core to keep temps down. The voltage i need climbs *fast* with 4.6GHz working at 1.2v, but 4.7GHz need 1.275v and 4.8 needing something above 1.35V (highest i'd test)
Now - lowest - highest (for those unfamiliar with HWinfo)





Oh how i wish Zen 4 would allow us to set the "base clock" and voltage like this, and then have PBO boost lower core counts....


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## tabascosauz (Jan 21, 2022)

Seems like Ryzen just gets faster and faster the longer it's in sleep, huh


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## Mussels (Jan 21, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Seems like Ryzen just gets faster and faster the longer it's in sleep, huh
> 
> View attachment 233349


Mmmm clock stretching... cant say i've seen that before


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## freeagent (Jan 21, 2022)

Those temps hardly move with water, and it is summer there... impressive..


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## Deleted member 202104 (Jan 21, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Seems like Ryzen just gets faster and faster the longer it's in sleep, huh
> 
> View attachment 233349



My 5950x is a go-er.


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## Mussels (Jan 21, 2022)

Aww i want 55GHz

All i get is this measly power efficient cold running 4.6GHz


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## mstenholm (Jan 21, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Aww i want 55GHz
> 
> All i get is this measly power efficient cold running 4.6GHz


You have something else unique - a chipset fan that has been running at over 3000 rpm for six hours


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## Mussels (Jan 21, 2022)

mstenholm said:


> You have something else unique - a chipset fan that has been running at over 3000 rpm for six hours


Love this mobo, but it has this retarded cover over the chipset heatsink to "help cool" NVME drives

Someone elses image of how they cut out a sheet of plastic to replace it after they went water, showing the dumbass design (this shows the removable plastic cover, vs the NVME heatsinks that look part of it)





Theres a really choked bit of mesh covering the fan that i may just give up cut out or something



What it looks like under the cover (not my image)




*vomits everywhere*






God damn you, now i want to drain the loop, remove the mobo, replace the thermal pad under that heatsink and mod the cover...

Goddamnit, 60C idle and 70C load is too much for my OCD to handle - todays *cold* damnit

the problem is simple... the GPU covers a huge chunk of a shittily designed fan shroud






You should feel bad for the work you're about to make me do... i have a huge pile of new but mixed thermal pads, i cant even tell the dimensions of them easily now... ugh

Most are arctic, but i have some gelid extreme and gelid pro in thicker sizes too.... uuuuugggghhhhhh

If removing the cover from the shroud helps, i'll forgive you.
if not... you wont notice anything cause i'll be offline for 8 hours tweaking this shit 


Edit 9001: Yeah, it's not airflow... the stock pad must be toast. ffs. TOTAL TEARDOWN TIIIIIIME.


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## mstenholm (Jan 21, 2022)

Sorry


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## freeagent (Jan 21, 2022)

Smack that CPU with some higher limits and wake it up


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## Mussels (Jan 21, 2022)

Good news!


With a total rebuild incluiding draining and refilling the loop, using the most expensive thermal pads out there and hours of shenanigans you'll love to hear that the temperature dropped from 68.8C to 58.8C and the fan RPM is now only 1,100


Dry and crumbly, holy crap it was bad







blurry image sorry, VRM pads were not so bad - replaced with gelid's anyway (right side is leftover scraps)










I tested this *first* before ripping shit apart, and it made 0C difference - thats how i knew the pads were bad.
But ummm... more airflow now.


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## freeagent (Jan 21, 2022)

Nice one! What kind of pads are you using?


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 21, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Good news!
> 
> 
> With a total rebuild incluiding draining and refilling the loop, using the most expensive thermal pads out there and hours of shenanigans you'll love to hear that the temperature dropped from 68.8C to 58.8C and the fan RPM is now only 1,100
> ...


I have considered doing similar to my laptop  but scared.


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## freeagent (Jan 21, 2022)

TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> I have considered doing similar to my laptop  but scared.


I want to do it to my GPU but I too am scurred.

If there were lots of GPU's available I wouldn't be so scurred


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 21, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I want to do it to my GPU but I too am scurred.
> 
> If there were lots of GPU's available I wouldn't be so scurred


I have plenty of GPU, they're all just too old or and broken , I have a couple quadros , a Tesla , Radeon vii , 5870, gtx 660 and many more , but the only working ones are a Vega in use years , a 1060 and 3 just for an output 940 or AMD similar tat used for diagnosis.

I might do some baking this weekend.


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## freeagent (Jan 21, 2022)

TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> I have plenty of GPU, they're all just too old or and broken , I have a couple quadros , a Tesla , Radeon vii , 5870, gtx 660 and many more , but the only working ones are a Vega in use years , a 1060 and 3 just for an output 940 or AMD similar tat used for diagnosis.
> 
> I might do some baking this weekend.


If my 3070Ti kicks the bucket I just have my 980 Classified, and then my kids will have to go back to the GTX 580.. there will be tears if that happen.. from all of us


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## Mussels (Jan 21, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Nice one! What kind of pads are you using?


These ones are gelid ultimate 2.0mm, i got the wrong size in the past for a GPU but they fit nicely here

After an hour it's still the same, instead of going 60 and revving its guts up (not that i could hear it at 3K RPM anyway, it's a quiet fan)









Those two were 43C each earlier, i believe those are the two VRM sensors

12 hours later:

Same results





So umm.... x570 users should check their chipset cooling and replace thermal pads/paste around the 2 year mark. I hadnt even noticed mine was so bad, i assumed it was the addition of PCI-E 4.0 devices combined with summer that made it hotter.


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## freeagent (Jan 23, 2022)

I almost bought a 5950X. It was in my cart, all I had to do was enter the 3 digits on the back of my card.. but then I chickened out..

I have the itch, and the night isn't over yet 

Maybe I will see what I can buy for the price of a 5950


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## outpt (Jan 23, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I almost bought a 5950X. It was in my cart, all I had to do was enter the 3 digits on the back of my card.. but then I chickened out..
> 
> I have the itch, and the night isn't over yet
> 
> Maybe I will see what I can buy for the price of a 5950


Remember; no guts no glory.


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## R-T-B (Jan 23, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I almost bought a 5950X. It was in my cart, all I had to do was enter the 3 digits on the back of my card.. but then I chickened out..
> 
> I have the itch, and the night isn't over yet
> 
> Maybe I will see what I can buy for the price of a 5950


I don't regret getting my 5950X FWIW.


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## freeagent (Jan 23, 2022)

R-T-B said:


> I don't regret getting my 5950X FWIW.


I have that same feeling I had before I bought my 5600X, I think it might be a good one.. but it is over a thousand beaver bucks here.. Then I was like well I could sell my 5900X for 500 or so, but she's been good to me I don't want to part with it.. and I cant part with my 5600X either lol. I also noticed the 5800X is cheaper than my 5600X was.. so 5GHz boosts with a possible 2K 1:1 green light.. I might go that route.. and a board for my kid 

I hate money. And being indecisive is terrible.


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## tabascosauz (Jan 23, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I have that same feeling I had before I bought my 5600X, I think it might be a good one.. but it is over a thousand beaver bucks here.. Then I was like well I could sell my 5900X for 500 or so, but she's been good to me I don't want to part with it.. and I cant part with my 5600X either lol. I also noticed the 5800X is cheaper than my 5600X was.. so 5GHz boosts with a possible 2K 1:1 green light.. I might go that route.. and a board for my kid
> 
> I hate money. And being indecisive is terrible.



Not much sense in a 5800X, you may as well wait for 5800X3D if that was the case. Probably get rid of the 5600X then, it's not like Vermeer was ever some sort of memory OC champion anyways. Anything the 5600X does the 5600G can kick it to the curb. Since you're able to push the 5900X so hard.

But then again there literally isn't anything that a 5950X doesn't do better than 5900X. Except you are still playing the lottery so don't sell until you're sure where the new chip stands, make sure it's not some kind of dud 5950X that tops out at 4850

And hey the 5950X would give you an excuse to build a loop, if you take the chains off it's the only chip of the 4 that draws power like a real [Intel] man


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## Mussels (Jan 23, 2022)

Buy me the 5950X, you know i'll treat it rough just the way CPU's like it

with 400 grit sandpaper on our first date, ooh baby


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## YautjaLord (Jan 25, 2022)

Gotta be careful with this substance:


After many failed attempts of applying this thing b4, my 1st successful run. Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut, GTX 760 is test subject. Next 2 will be 5900X & RTX 3080 Master. 


Mussels said:


> Buy me the 5950X, you know i'll treat it rough just the way CPU's like it
> 
> with 400 grit sandpaper on our first date, ooh baby



Personal sanding machine would be nicer & quicker, but i get what you saying.  

P.S. Look at it, it's like Carolina Reaper death nut of TIMs, or something  :


----------



## freeagent (Jan 25, 2022)

So I have been looking on and off for a new board.. and right now it’s between the Dark Hero, and the new Strix-E II. I would like the DH, my question is, is it worth the money? I would stick with B550, except I noticed in my case, Asus has been very slow to update to the newest Agesa, whereas DH and Strix-E II are on the newest already, and have been for a little while now.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 25, 2022)

freeagent said:


> So I have been looking on and off for a new board.. and right now it’s between the Dark Hero, and the new Strix-E II. I would like the DH, my question is, is it worth the money? I would stick with B550, except I noticed in my case, Asus has been very slow to update to the newest Agesa, whereas DH and Strix-E II are on the newest already, and have been for a little while now.



I'd go with the DH for the OC buttons and Directkey alone. Strix is still what, $359 for just a POST code and DH is $450? OOPS $540 lol never mind

I'm sorry, maybe prejudiced but Strix will always be fake ROG  

Is there even any benefit to new AGESA these days? No real performance to be had, I still get best results on 3601, only using 3904 to fix that Win 11 bug.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 25, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> I'd go with the DH for the OC buttons and Directkey alone. Strix is still what, $359 for just a POST code and DH is $450? OOPS $540 lol never mind
> 
> I'm sorry, maybe prejudiced but Strix will always be fake ROG
> 
> Is there even any benefit to new AGESA these days? No real performance to be had, I still get best results on 3601, only using 3904 to fix that Win 11 bug.


I’m am new to the whole strix thing  But that new Strix-E has the dynamic oc switcher too.. I was hung up on the agesa thing after seeing your aida results in 11.. grr.. 

What about the regular crosshair viii, is that a good board?


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 25, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I’m am new to the whole strix thing  But that new Strix-E has the dynamic oc switcher too.. I was hung up on the agesa thing after seeing your aida results in 11.. grr..
> 
> What about the regular crosshair viii, is that a good board?



Payback for convincing me to buy the P3 case huh   

Don't worry about that, it doesn't make a difference to performance. Like the 4000 APU L3 bug, it's just AMD surreptitiously manipulating how the CPU behaves in the AIDA test to get better results. CPU still behaves exactly as trash as it used to in 11 benchmarking. 

How about a X570 Unify-X Max?


----------



## freeagent (Jan 25, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Payback for convincing me to buy the P3 case huh
> 
> Don't worry about that, it doesn't make a difference to performance. Like the 4000 APU L3 bug, it's just AMD surreptitiously manipulating how the CPU behaves in the AIDA test to get better results. CPU still behaves exactly as trash as it used to in 11 benchmarking.
> 
> How about a X570 Unify-X Max?


No no of course not, I only want you to be happy, I think you would be happy with a P3 

Ok, I wont worry about AGESA.. much.. but a mild case of ocd will keep it in the back of my mind fer a bit 

How about a X570 Unify-X Max?

I have been running Asus pretty much exclusively since I got into computers back in 02. In the old days I had a few Abits and a DFI, but outside of those its just been Asus. I actually fear moving to someone else.. is that crazy or what? Am I crazy? probably a little.. I cmon how can you not be ?

Especially with this hobby 

I was talking about this stuff to a guy at work the other day and I blew his mind. He is like wait a minute, you are talking about this stuff like it is cars.. and I was like.. yeah man, how fast do you want to go? Depends on your wallet just like cars lol. I gently explained some of the tuning process and the results and gains and he seemed like he was considering a build as he scoffed at his dinosaur. IHe knows about overclocking, and I told him it is pretty much done.. There is still some left to exploit, but not much.

/ramble

550 bucks man, wtf.  

Edit:

Whoops had an X58 UD5 before my R3F. So a single giga board..


----------



## Mussels (Jan 25, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I’m am new to the whole strix thing  But that new Strix-E has the dynamic oc switcher too.. I was hung up on the agesa thing after seeing your aida results in 11.. grr..
> 
> What about the regular crosshair viii, is that a good board?


Wait, which strix-E is that? the dynamic switcher is something i *thought* my board had when i bought it, due to a mixed up user review


ASUS Launches Four New X570 Motherboards | News｜ASUS Global


Damnit, the V2 looks like a good upgrade.  They fixed the chipset heatsink (not mixed with M.2 any more), upgraded/added wifi and LAN - and the dynamic switcher is something i think ryzen really needs -.- (but was useless locked to overpriced exclusive boards)


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 25, 2022)

freeagent said:


> No no of course not, I only want you to be happy, I think you would be happy with a P3
> 
> Ok, I wont worry about AGESA.. much.. but a mild case of ocd will keep it in the back of my mind fer a bit
> 
> ...


Curve ball, absolutely loving the crosshair impact has everything most will need.

Looks somehow tidier than many other options, I had a crosshair vIi. Before and I haven't regretted it.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 26, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Wait, which strix-E is that? the dynamic switcher is something i *thought* my board had when i bought it, due to a mixed up user review
> 
> 
> ASUS Launches Four New X570 Motherboards | News｜ASUS Global
> ...


It looks like a nice board.. DOCS, screw less m.2, newest wifi and Bluetooth.. and no SLi..

Do I need it? Not right now.. would I miss it? Probably not.. but as an X570S board.. it should have it..


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 26, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Ok, I wont worry about AGESA.. much.. but a mild case of ocd will keep it in the back of my mind fer a bit
> 
> I actually fear moving to someone else.. is that crazy or what? Am I crazy? probably a little.. I cmon how can you not be ?
> 
> ...



I initially thought my $500+ was well spent on the Impact, and it is a very well featured board, but I supposes there's a reason why it's not preferred by OCers. The memory topology still seems old and lacking. Not only does my Unify-X do better, all of my $100-300 ITX boards do better than the Impact. CPU performance also unimpressive as well, scores and clocks always fluctuate wildly. AGESA never improved either of those things, so don't go into a board hoping that it'll somehow get better with time; AGESA has never "fixed" any fundamental issues on any board I've used.

I'm not going to bore you with my whole truck-buying journey - let's just say that brand loyalty means nothing anymore, so I keep an open mind......I got thrown under the bus real bad for relying on perceived good reputation. 

Right now it's a tossup between using the Unify-X or Impact for P3. Asus has the BIOS, overall USB stability, and 2-pin temp sensor headers. But MSI offers no tiny fans to worry about, better performance and better layout for the loop. Tough call.

@freeagent forgot to mention, don't yearn too much for the new AGESA BIOSes. Another reason why I only use 3601 on my Impact unless I'm on 11 is because PBO is broken on any later BIOS. 3801 had really bad performance altogether, 3801 and 3904 also doesn't obey PPT/TDC/EDC and also have inferior performance. According to my board, 142W = 146W......lord knows what else it's doing under the hood...


----------



## freeagent (Jan 26, 2022)

Man, you drive a hard bargain. I appreciate your honesty. DOCS seems pretty cool, but if that 550 buck board performs the same as my 200 buck board and has a few features that mine doesn’t.. do I really need it? My little 200 buck board did some pretty cool things.. and kept up with big dog x570. Maybe I will look at some other boards


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 26, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Man, you drive a hard bargain. I appreciate your honesty. DOCS seems pretty cool, but if that 550 buck board performs the same as my 200 buck board and has a few features that mine doesn’t.. do I really need it? My little 200 buck board did some pretty cool things.. and kept up with big dog x570. Maybe I will look at some other boards



Save a buck, and use the savings to build a loop to take your OC to the next level?


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Jan 29, 2022)

Don't know if anyone has seen this, but it is very interesting.
https://chipsandcheese.com/2021/02/05/amds-past-and-future-cpus/


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## kapone32 (Jan 29, 2022)

Tigger said:


> Don't know if anyone has seen this, but it is very interesting.
> https://chipsandcheese.com/2021/02/05/amds-past-and-future-cpus/


This is a mostly objective view of AMD's potential. That line about the wafer being separated from the console seemed so eye-opening when I read it.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 29, 2022)

Tigger said:


> Don't know if anyone has seen this, but it is very interesting.
> https://chipsandcheese.com/2021/02/05/amds-past-and-future-cpus/


Pretty good view on the current and upcoming situation

The wafer/parts shortage is real (or we'd see AMD budget chips) - but with consoles staying as they are, and the first 5nm parts out already in bulk (6500XT)

Apple is the only threat to supply, but if both companies are succesful it's just going to push the demand for more fab nodes, or spreading products out on different tech levels
(Like that rumour of Zen3 CCX + Zen 2 CCX as E-cores)


----------



## de.das.dude (Feb 7, 2022)

Finally i join the club! with my 5600x

PBO is awesome. All cores at 4.64 steady. Max temp 78C at 26C ambient. 240mm Antec AIO


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## Kanan (Feb 7, 2022)

I updated my bios a while ago, it then had improved PBO features, I was kinda surprised. The bios mentions "optimized by The Stilt", that's pretty great. If you know the guy you know what I'm talking about.


----------



## de.das.dude (Feb 7, 2022)

i had to update my bios, since the BIOS installed was the first version. Surprised that i was able to go into bios without the CPU being supported!
new tech is amazing


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## Kanan (Feb 7, 2022)

de.das.dude said:


> i had to update my bios, since the BIOS installed was the first version. Surprised that i was able to go into bios without the CPU being supported!
> new tech is amazing


Yep, sometimes you're lucky and the PC starts with "unknown AMD CPU" or something and you can do a lot of things.


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## de.das.dude (Feb 7, 2022)

se


Kanan said:


> Yep, sometimes you're lucky and the PC starts with "unknown AMD CPU" or something and you can do a lot of things.


seems to bea feature of the motherboard. which is why i chose it.


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## Mussels (Feb 7, 2022)

de.das.dude said:


> se
> 
> seems to bea feature of the motherboard. which is why i chose it.


wait til you find out how easy BIOS flashback is, vs the old methods.
PSU, motherboard, USB stick. nothing else - no CPU, no GPU, dont even power the system on


Oh i discovered something interesting, my zen 3 doesnt idle higher wattage with an all core OC, but my zen 2 3700x does.

15W difference between stock/PBO and a low voltage 4GHz all core OC.


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## Kissamies (Feb 8, 2022)

Hmm... B550 Aorus Pro V2 is on sale at 130EUR.. makes me think of getting that board and thinking about keeping my current board (B550M Aorus Elite) and building a Zen2 based 2nd (R3 3100?) mATX rig later for my spare Define Mini C..


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## Mussels (Feb 8, 2022)

Mussels said:


> wait til you find out how easy BIOS flashback is, vs the old methods.
> PSU, motherboard, USB stick. nothing else - no CPU, no GPU, dont even power the system on
> 
> 
> ...


I am an idiot and got my systems confused

This was the 2700x, zen+ and i am less shocked why 4GHz used so much power now


----------



## Chomiq (Feb 8, 2022)

Looks like Gigabyte X570 owners might get a new stable BIOS release soon, last beta was pulled from the site which usually means a new version is coming.

Update:
Previous BETA version which had following changelog:


> •Major vulnerabilities updates, customers are strongly encouraged to update to this release at the earliest.
> Credits to "Assaf Carlsbad and Itai Liba from SentinelOne"
> • Introduce capsule BIOS support starting this version.
> 
> ...


was replaced with stable version:


> • Major vulnerabilities updates, customers are strongly encouraged to update to this release at the earliest.
> Credits to "Assaf Carlsbad and Itai Liba from SentinelOne"
> • Introduce capsule BIOS support starting this version.
> 
> ...


----------



## Chomiq (Feb 11, 2022)

Just an FYI


----------



## Mussels (Feb 13, 2022)

My aorus x370  has no update yet, but my asus x570 does





'
New AGESA seems to cap VID to 1.425V with PBO, which makes some people sad for max boosts but likely solves various heat 'issues'


----------



## Mussels (Feb 18, 2022)

I know we all moved away from CTR after a few bad releases and fears of damage, buuuuut
ClockTuner v2.1 for Ryzen (CTR) Guide - Introduction (guru3d.com)



> PX PROFILEs for all CPUs. Unlock maximum performance in low-threaded applications and games.
> Fast and accurate creation of P1, P2, and PX profiles during diagnostic (only for Zen 3 and Renoir). The whole process takes about 7 minutes.
> Redesigned CTR HYBRID OC. Smooth, safe profile switching. The profile switching speed is up to 62 times per second (up to 4x times more than earlier releases).



This sounds like asus dynamic OC switcher letting us toggle between static and PBO modes, does it not?

A lot more reliable than it used to be (make sure no voltage offsets or CO are active before testing)



These are pretty close to the values i found (1.225V for 4.6GHz) so i can actually accept them as valid, with a small safety margin


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## tabascosauz (Feb 18, 2022)

Mussels said:


> I know we all moved away from CTR after a few bad releases and fears of damage, buuuuut
> ClockTuner v2.1 for Ryzen (CTR) Guide - Introduction (guru3d.com)
> 
> This sounds like asus dynamic OC switcher letting us toggle between static and PBO modes, does it not?



The hybrid OC function has been in there before Asus and Gigabyte ever integrated theirs into their boards. His new Hydra program does basically the same. The only problem is the guy behind the software and the reliability of the software he writes...


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## freeagent (Feb 18, 2022)

I did try the new AGESA for my board, thankfully it was a beta and no changes were permanent. I saw a max of 1.45v, usually 1.425v.. performance was strong, though boosts took a really big hit. Massive. So I went back to the older official and don’t think I will be upgrading to the newest once it is released. My board will feed 1.535v at the tippy top.. 1.45v is no good to me


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## Mussels (Feb 19, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> The hybrid OC function has been in there before Asus and Gigabyte ever integrated theirs into their boards. His new Hydra program does basically the same. The only problem is the guy behind the software and the reliability of the software he writes...


I never knew about hydra.

I just want my 4.6GHz 1.2v, with boost on top. Sounds like i can get that with these now.
(I'd greatly prefer a hardware version over software, however)


I've seen lower boost clocks here too (every core hitting 4.85GHz, instead of the two best doing 5GHz+) - but its staying there longer so that may actually be better?


See, even if i just slap my own values in: this is what i've been looking for (hydras default values)



The "game" value (all cores active at lower average load) is a perfect example of why its hard to tweak based on core count


----------



## Mussels (Feb 20, 2022)

Playing around with it, i think i've hit that clock limit people are bitching about in the new AGESA

1-2T wont pass 4900 (most cores 4850) - max i can set is 5000, despite it really being 5050
4.6 all core for the rest is fine since i manually tested that and know it's stable at all loads at that VID




I'm still getting 250-300Mhz more low threaded, so i see it as a win.


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## de.das.dude (Feb 20, 2022)

TBH i have had good results from PBO2 after enabling it in the bios. I havent felt the need to do any overclocking at all.

my 5600x goes upto 110w TDP and 4.6ghz on all cores(stable after 30min of aida stress) with the current 240mm AIO i have.


----------



## Chomiq (Feb 21, 2022)

Noticed super odd thing recently. Normal boot, even with fast boot enabled was always around 12 seconds since forever. Switched CPU Vcore from "Normal" to "Auto" and boom, now booting in 7.6 seconds. That whole fan spin-up pre-post cycle is now like 2 seconds instead of 5.


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## DemonicRyzen666 (Feb 21, 2022)

Mussels said:


> I never knew about hydra.
> 
> I just want my 4.6GHz 1.2v, with boost on top. Sounds like i can get that with these now.
> (I'd greatly prefer a hardware version over software, however)
> ...


I have tried it and was not impressed at all. My bios settings so far have Just been better than Hydra and CTR by at least 1,000-1,500 points for me in CinebenchR23 in single and eve more in multi-threaded. 
I'm above every 5600x on techpowerup's cinebenchr23 list with 1,610 on single thread and around 12,020 in mutli-threaded.


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## dont whant to set it"' (Feb 21, 2022)

To delid or not to delid a 5800X from the point of CCD and IOD heights under the ihs, are these same height at top of insolator?

le: Anyhow, the deliding is in progress , patience due course and no bent pins(so far).
To be used with liquid metal alloy TIM if successful(direct die contact between heatsink and chips).


----------



## freeagent (Feb 21, 2022)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> I'm above every 5600x on techpowerup's cinebenchr23 list with 1,610 on single thread











						freeagent`s Cinebench - R23 Single Core with BenchMate score: 1625 cb with a Ryzen 5 5600X
					

The Ryzen 5 5600X @ 4900.3MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R23 Single Core with BenchMate benchmark. freeagentranks #null worldwide and #17 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




					hwbot.org


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## oobymach (Feb 21, 2022)

Impressive, I just broke 1600 with 1.2.0.3c bios and pbo with a +200mhz offset, if I do a manual oc I can break 12k multi but single core drops to under 1500.


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## RJARRRPCGP (Feb 21, 2022)

oobymach said:


> Impressive, I just broke 1600 with 1.2.0.3c bios and pbo with a +200mhz offset, if I do a manual oc I can break 12k multi but single core drops to under 1500.
> 
> View attachment 237492


I've been using CTR 2.1 RC5 and the only thing I see wrong, is that CPU-Z bench scores always drop, but always OK with Cinebench. Also, with RAM at only 3200 with low timing values with solely XMP, I get roughly the same as you with Cinebench single core.


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## Mussels (Feb 21, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> Noticed super odd thing recently. Normal boot, even with fast boot enabled was always around 12 seconds since forever. Switched CPU Vcore from "Normal" to "Auto" and boom, now booting in 7.6 seconds. That whole fan spin-up pre-post cycle is now like 2 seconds instead of 5.


Was it actually stable, or was it crashing out and ignoring the setting you chose?


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## Chomiq (Feb 22, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Was it actually stable, or was it crashing out and ignoring the setting you chose?


It was stable. It's almost like fast boot didn't work until now.


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## tabascosauz (Feb 22, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> It was stable. It's almost like fast boot didn't work until now.



Wouldn't read too much into it, time spent pre-POST is largely memory training which is dependent on what you have. When I was on B450I Aorus and B550M TUF, it wasn't until around I switched to B-die that I ever saw any proper "fast boot" whether it was enabled/disabled in BIOS or Windows. 4Gb E-die takes a very long time to train, CJR not so much but not "fast".

And even afterwards it has never been consistent either. Give it a couple months and if it starts up quick every single day without exception, maybe there's something going on. Sometimes I'd change some red herring and temporarily believe that the problem was "fixed" by something else, but best not to read too much into this stuff.


----------



## dont whant to set it"' (Feb 22, 2022)

There , delided.


----------



## Chomiq (Feb 23, 2022)

dont whant to set it' said:


> There , delided.


What's with bare copper showing up on the edges?


----------



## Taraquin (Feb 23, 2022)

oobymach said:


> Impressive, I just broke 1600 with 1.2.0.3c bios and pbo with a +200mhz offset, if I do a manual oc I can break 12k multi but single core drops to under 1500.
> 
> View attachment 237492


With pbo and co you should break 12000 if cooler is good enough. Trick is to keep temp below 71-72C. I can do 12050points with +50 pbo, -30 allcore and 88W PPT (consumption never exceeds 84W at 4.7GHz). With stock 76W PPT allcore runs at 4.575-4.65GHz and I get 11800 points.


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## oobymach (Feb 23, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> With pbo and co you should break 12000 if cooler is good enough. Trick is to keep temp below 71-72C. I can do 12050points with +50 pbo, -30 allcore and 88W PPT (consumption never exceeds 84W at 4.7GHz). With stock 76W PPT allcore runs at 4.575-4.65GHz and I get 11800 points.


Breaking the 12k isn't the hard part, it's keeping it under that magic 72 degree thermal throttle. Good advice though, tried the +50 -30 but had isues, +50 and -25 though ran fine until the thermal ceiling so I'm still messing around with it. I hit 72 while gaming too (CODWW2) as well as p95 stress test.


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## freeagent (Feb 23, 2022)

Throttle in the 70s, really?


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## oobymach (Feb 24, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Throttle in the 70s, really?


Yeah when the 5600x hits 72-73 degrees it goes from stable 4.7ghz all core to random drops in frequency as soon as it hits that temp, stressing with p95 it's steady 4.7ghz on all cores with the +50 pbo and -25mv allcore until it gets warm.


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## freeagent (Feb 24, 2022)

Hmm, I will have to try it sometime.. you sure it’s not the current bringing it down? What kind of cpu ppt and edc are you looking at when that happens?


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## Final_Fighter (Feb 24, 2022)




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## oobymach (Feb 24, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Hmm, I will have to try it sometime.. you sure it’s not the current bringing it down? What kind of cpu ppt and edc are you looking at when that happens?


I think they were on auto, using 95w 75a and 100a limits atm and temps are down a bit, if I go +200mhz offset it wants to use the full 95w in p95 right away and holds up around 4.75-4.8ghz all cores until all 12 workers pass the first round then it dropped to 4.4-4.5ghz range.

With the +50mhz with -25mv allcore it pulls about 80 watts and runs 4.7ghz all cores until second round of p95 then it jumps to 95w and starts dipping from 4.6-4.7ghz randomly but not below 4.6ghz. Still testing for maximum speed.


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## Taraquin (Feb 24, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Throttle in the 70s, really?


If PPT is kept equal, temp alone will drop allcore speed by over 200MHz if temp goes from 60 to 80C.

A quick clockspeed comparison in CB23 with +50 pbo and - 30 CO, initial clockspeed first, then sustained after 3 rounds at 76W PPT:
Stock cooler: 80C, 4.55-4.4GHz 10900p
Bequiet dark rock slim: 73C, 4.625-4.55GHz 11550p
Noctua D15: 67C, 4.65-4.625GHz 11850p



freeagent said:


> Throttle in the 70s, really?


It's not actually throttle jefore close to 80C, but the warmer a CPU gets, the more power it uses. If kept at a PPT limit, clockspeed will drop a bit if temp rises. On my i5 12400F a simple swap of cooler lowered max consumption in CB from 78W to 72W due to temp dropping from 82 to 62C, this is at max boost of 4GHz allcore. Ryzen boosts allcore as high as it gets eithin PPT limit. If you use +200 pbo, CO and no limit and have a very good cooler you can get allcore 4.85GHz using like 140W on a 5600X if CO is so high that cores kept below voltage threshold  

Using no limit and +50pbo consumption is 84W max pn my 5600X since 4.7GHz don't use more and can't boost higher. With +200pbo I can get above 90W, but temp gets above 75C and I get some slight actual throttling.


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## The King (Feb 24, 2022)

I have gotten closer to getting my first gen Ryzen to run at DDR4000! I'm current in the BIOS @4000...


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## freeagent (Feb 24, 2022)

Man that thing is a freak


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## RJARRRPCGP (Feb 27, 2022)

Final_Fighter said:


> View attachment 237757


Well, here's mine with CTR 2.1 RC5: 

At 4.8 GHz:





At 4.9 GHz in the PX profile: 





I lowered the Vcore for the max frequency in the PX profile:


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## RJARRRPCGP (Feb 28, 2022)

I honestly think that boost is unstable, even when I got a higher score, because multiple times, I found a Chromium tab crashed with an access violation error, including the tab suddenly becoming crashed with an access violation when merely scrolling down a YouTube page!

So, I discarded the settings I have and let CTR 2.1 RC5 run the diagnostic function again: (A golden sample, but the Vcore gets set so low that a Prime95 worker appears to fail, it's usually thread#8 that fails, looks like I found the weakest core to be the third core or the fourth core. IIRC, the date code is 2143, making this a very-late Vermeer revision!





Here's me starting over again, because of my past boost apparently making Chromium unstable:


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## oobymach (Feb 28, 2022)

I tried CTR 2.1, ran the auto detect and it went up to 5.2ghz before it crashed my system and forced a reboot, any settings I tried there didn't run nearly as well as the same settings in bios though I did get the single core up to 4.9ghz the performance was lackluster.

On a positive note 1900mhz fclk is stable for me now with lower soc voltage, I can game for hours now without crashes @ 1.125v soc where 1.5v had issues


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## RJARRRPCGP (Feb 28, 2022)

oobymach said:


> I tried CTR 2.1, ran the auto detect and it went up to 5.2ghz before it crashed my system and forced a reboot, any settings I tried there didn't run nearly as well as the same settings in bios though I did get the single core up to 4.9ghz the performance was lackluster.


Did you increase the setting for CPU load line calibration in the BIOS? For me, Windows never crashed out during diagnose.

The crashed Chromium sessions, may have just been because I lowered the max Vcore for the max frequency boost to 1.2-something volts. It's set higher now, hopefully, won't put a nick in the chip.

What were the core temps? If it was 70 C+, it's probably too high and caused it to be unstable.


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## oobymach (Feb 28, 2022)

It might have been a temp limit that forced the restart idk the frequency was going up pretty quick but it didn't run for more than a few seconds before the hard restart.


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## RJARRRPCGP (Feb 28, 2022)

oobymach said:


> It might have been a temp limit that forced the restart idk the frequency was going up pretty quick but it didn't run for more than a few seconds before the hard restart.


Sounds like a stop error to me. It likely was a fatal WHEA for "Cache Hierarchy Error". Check the event log. Raise the Vcore, in CTR, it's expressed in millivolts, just like with video cards.


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## thesmokingman (Feb 28, 2022)

Here's a tip, if you use hwinfo set the whea error tracker to the taskbar. That way you immediately know when the dreaded whea occurs so you don't waste time.


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## RJARRRPCGP (Feb 28, 2022)

thesmokingman said:


> Here's a tip, if you use hwinfo set the whea error tracker to the taskbar. That way you immediately know when the dreaded whea occurs so you don't waste time.


That only applies to non-fatal WHEA errors (correctable, but correctable ones are bad, too!) Fatal WHEAs mean Windows crashes out.


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## thesmokingman (Feb 28, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> That only applies to non-fatal WHEA errors (correctable, but correctable ones are bad, too!) Fatal WHEAs mean Windows crashes out.


Well no duh? Why's everyone got to make a redundant counter all the time, can't take a tip?


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## RJARRRPCGP (Feb 28, 2022)

thesmokingman said:


> Well no duh? Why's everyone got to make a redundant counter all the time, can't take a tip?


That was according to the HWiNFO author.


----------



## thesmokingman (Feb 28, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> That was according to the HWiNFO author.


When you get a Fatal, the game is over, jig is up. You can however get the non-fatal kind and not know it. Thus being able to see as soon as you get one, it saves you time. Duh.


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## RJARRRPCGP (Mar 2, 2022)

thesmokingman said:


> When you get a Fatal, the game is over, jig is up. You can however get the non-fatal kind and not know it. Thus being able to see as soon as you get one, it saves you time. Duh.


In another words, it doesn't sound like HWiNFO reads the event log for past fatal WHEAs.


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## Octopuss (Mar 3, 2022)

So what are you guys using for stress testing?
I sometimes get AMD Wattman (or whatever is it called now) reset to defaults (annoying as hell) due to some unspecified error (thanks AMD), and since it's been several BIOS versions since I considered my system stable, I thought it could potentially be related to the CPU, and thought I should retest everything.
Of course it's been over a year and I forgot what I did there  I most probably used Prime95 just like always, but since I was primarily undervolting, it's pretty complicated.


----------



## oobymach (Mar 4, 2022)

I still stress with at least 2 passes in p95 blend, I don't want to subject my machine to hours of stress, if all workers pass the second round I'm happy with it.

Just went through undervolting my static 4.65ghz to 1.2v which dropped my temps by a few degrees, barely breaking 60 degrees now in p95.


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## freeagent (Mar 4, 2022)

I let my Intel CPU roast in the 90s for weeks, might have lost a bit of weight but she still rips 

My AMD CPU's didn't get away so easy either.. OTP comes shortly after 100 

They are pretty tough.. within reason..


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## RJARRRPCGP (Mar 5, 2022)

Is there any evidence of notable degradation from having an all-core OC at 4.5 or 4.4 on a Vermeer? Mine looks stable at 4.00 at 1150mV -1% to -5% Vdroop roughly.

CTR indicates that I possibly can go for 4.5!


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## freeagent (Mar 5, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> Is there any evidence of notable degradation from having an all-core OC at 4.5 or 4.4 on a Vermeer? Mine looks stable at 4.00 at 1150mV -1% to -5% Vdroop roughly.
> 
> CTR indicates that I possibly can go for 4.5!


Its fine. 1.25v is fine, 1.35 is probably my all load limit.

Edit:

my 5600X is all load stable at 4650 with 1.25v, but for 4700 it needs 1.35v. On my 5900X 1.25v is good for 4500, and 1.35 for 4600 is my hard limit on that CPU..


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## RJARRRPCGP (Mar 5, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Its fine. 1.25v is fine, 1.35 is probably my all load limit.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> my 5600X is all load stable at 4650 with 1.25v, but for 4700 it needs 1.35v. On my 5900X 1.25v is good for 4500, and 1.35 for 4600 is my hard limit on that CPU..


I remembered thinking that even for single core, 1.3xV was pressing my luck!


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## Mussels (Mar 15, 2022)

New chipset drivers have landed
X570 Drivers & Support | AMD


----------



## Chomiq (Mar 19, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Wouldn't read too much into it, time spent pre-POST is largely memory training which is dependent on what you have. When I was on B450I Aorus and B550M TUF, it wasn't until around I switched to B-die that I ever saw any proper "fast boot" whether it was enabled/disabled in BIOS or Windows. 4Gb E-die takes a very long time to train, CJR not so much but not "fast".
> 
> And even afterwards it has never been consistent either. Give it a couple months and if it starts up quick every single day without exception, maybe there's something going on. Sometimes I'd change some red herring and temporarily believe that the problem was "fixed" by something else, but best not to read too much into this stuff.


And just like that today I'm back to 12+ seconds on post instead of 7. Didn't change anything at all.


----------



## YautjaLord (Mar 19, 2022)

Just to keep this 4k-everything-liquid-cooled beast alive, RTX 3080 Master (rev. 3.0) done a week or so ago, Dark Base Pro 900 rev. 2 - yesterday. I tell ya, it's night & day difference even aesthetically, the liquid cooling thingy.


----------



## Chomiq (Mar 31, 2022)

First 5700X GB results are out.


----------



## tabascosauz (Apr 1, 2022)

4000/5000 APU owners - the "new" GPU PBO and GPU curve optimizer in I think AGESA 1203+ BIOSes is pretty interesting and worth checking out if you're on iGPU.

Originally the stock iGPU behaviour was dynamic freq with dynamic voltage (VDDCR_GFX). If you ever OC'd then it would only accept a fixed freq @ VSOC.

The GPU PBO part now allows scaling up to +200MHz with dynamic freq and dynamic voltage (but VDDCR_GFX increases depending on boost override). The Curve Optimizer part I haven't delved into yet because it appears to work the same way as CPU Curve Optimizer but nowhere have I seen described how big a CO step is for GPU (millivolts).

For example, at 2200MHz IF (which increases VSOC requirements):

Stock - dynamic 2000MHz @ ~0.7-1.0V (?)
OC - fixed 2200MHz @ 1.2V
OC - fixed 2300MHz @ 1.23V
PBO - dynamic 2200MHz @ ~0.7-1.205V
The PBO part at least works very well - Valley score for 2200 fixed and 2200 PBO are identical. Been on 2200 more lately as 2300 is tough and I don't game as much on this one, so PBO is good.


----------



## freeagent (Apr 2, 2022)

So this guy right here thought he would be smart and update to the latest bios to see what changes there would be to my boost clocks.. Wow it was just as terrible as on my other B550 board. Wow. huge cuts to power and boost. Then I flashed back to what I was using before.. and voila.. TDC bug.. wouldn't budge past 139.. booooo. I tried flashing back to the bios it shipped with.. and nope no can do.. weird I thought.. So I re flashed again to the second newest and plugged in my settings and voila, TDC bug is gone, back into the 150s 

That was too close


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## Mussels (Apr 3, 2022)

Yeah, some boards get some really shitty BIOS's
1.2.0.3c was pretty solid for just about everyone


----------



## Mussels (Apr 18, 2022)




----------



## tabascosauz (Apr 20, 2022)

Mussels said:


> View attachment 243945



This new auto-test CO function is about as reliable as my 3700X was........certainly not a compliment.

I ran the full per-core test which took about 1.5 hours. RM told me that every core was -27, which was strange since even in its test, the cores were topping out at different freqs in about the same order as I've come to expect from this 5700G. So I applied its recommendations and restarted.

Made it through 1/8 of an AIDA run before hard rebooting. AIDA.

I haven't thoroughly CO tested the 5700G as I have my 5900X (it took 6 weeks!) - all I know is that the best two cores are pickiest (as I have come to expect from 5000), so I left it at -8 for all cores as it seemed to be good enough for default config Corecycler. No practical instability since then (~8 months ago?).

So you can imagine my surprise when RM told me initially that -27 was good.

Looks like RM is still comical a software as ever, and custom corecycler is still the proper way to test.


----------



## freeagent (Apr 20, 2022)

I never did like that program.


----------



## Chomiq (Apr 20, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> This new auto-test CO function is about as reliable as my 3700X was........certainly not a compliment.
> 
> I ran the full per-core test which took about 1.5 hours. RM told me that every core was -27, which was strange since even in its test, the cores were topping out at different freqs in about the same order as I've come to expect from this 5700G. So I applied its recommendations and restarted.
> 
> ...


1usmus doing coding for AMD now?


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## R-T-B (Apr 20, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> 1usmus doing coding for AMD now?


Did I miss where his rep took a hit somewhere?  A bit out of the loop here.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 21, 2022)

R-T-B said:


> Did I miss where his rep took a hit somewhere?  A bit out of the loop here.


his programs are hit and miss with some hardware, and some people demand perfection


----------



## tabascosauz (Apr 21, 2022)

R-T-B said:


> Did I miss where his rep took a hit somewhere?  A bit out of the loop here.



It's not so much to do with the software (which are a very mixed bag), as it is how he brags about his infinite intellect but flames and refuses to engage with anyone who thinks his software is bugged/flawed. Which leads to the software being forever sad like it is (DRAM calc/CTR/Hydra).

But that's beside the point, because it's AMD's perennially hilarious software engineers at work here. I'll test it out on my 5900X soon.


----------



## dont whant to set it"' (Apr 21, 2022)

Well, aparently my x3d variant of the 5800 is capable of 2000MHz IF clock ,  while so far , so stable in game and no,  I am not playing linpack , p95 and the likes.

Current setup is in dualcore config because a cooler remount must be done and I've used the last dash of MX5 the tube was holding.

Fixed multiplier is doable , tried 30 odd some + the other and 46 was a no go, so far.

Started with D.O.C.P. but now  , after a brief stable half hour game, I am trying with tweaked primaryes and a bump up of 0.05V to 1.4V dimm.

le: game running minimized might explain the low memory benchmarks.


----------



## QuietBob (Apr 21, 2022)

dont whant to set it' said:


> Well, aparently my x3d variant of the 5800 is capable of 2000MHz IF clock ,  while so far , so stable in game and no,  I am not playing linpack , p95 and the likes.
> 
> Current setup is in dualcore config because a cooler remount must be done and I've used the last dash of MX5 the tube was holding.
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting your results! I'm also hoping to see 2000 IF on mine, got some nice B-dies to go 1:1. Still waiting for delivery.
BTW, your dual core 5800X3D gives me a crazy idea... 
"Gaming on the fastest single core CPU"


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 21, 2022)

dont whant to set it' said:


> Well, aparently my x3d variant of the 5800 is capable of 2000MHz IF clock , while so far , so stable in game and no, I am not playing linpack , p95 and the likes.


You're going to have to run something that stress tests the CPU. Otherwise you have no way of knowing if you have a stable OC. A 10 minute run of Prime95 should be all you need.


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Apr 22, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Made it through 1/8 of an AIDA run before hard rebooting. AIDA.


Sounds just like a WHEA Windows crash out for "Cache Hierarchy Error". So far, every time Windows crashed out, it was that reason given on my Ryzens.



Chomiq said:


> 1usmus doing coding for AMD now?


In 1usmus' defense, the only issue with CTR, for me, was that it was a bit too positive about my chip, LOL.
A +6mV or similar Vcore increase, wasn't enough Vcore (step-wise) for my Ryzen 5 5600X. When I set it manually and had it run Prime95, then it can run without an error, but for PX, right when it looked like there wasn't any whoopsie, I then suddenly started getting random new access violation crashes with Chromium tabs, which was clearly a whoops with the auto-tuned PX profile.

I remembered getting an access violation error when just scrolling down a YouTube page, IIRC. 

I honestly think 1usmus did a very good job with CTR.


----------



## freeagent (May 7, 2022)

I have been playing with the latest beta bios for my board a little bit today.. It is coded with the latest AGESA V2 PI 1.2.0.7. As with 1.2.0.6 it limits voltage. But performance is still very strong regardless of the lower boosting action with all of the cores. Even still, when presented with a heavy all core workload, it somehow pushes more wattage, more current with less voltage. For instance, I have never seen 157 TDC, nor have I seen 237w CPU Package power, or over 230w PPT.. yet manages to keep itself under 85c.

Works pretty good..


----------



## tabascosauz (May 7, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I have been playing with the latest beta bios for my board a little bit today.. It is coded with the latest AGESA V2 PI 1.2.0.7. As with 1.2.0.6 it limits voltage. But performance is still very strong regardless of the lower boosting action with all of the cores. Even still, when presented with a heavy all core workload, it somehow pushes more wattage, more current with less voltage. For instance, I have never seen 157 TDC, nor have I seen 237w CPU Package power, or over 230w PPT.. yet manages to keep itself under 85c.
> 
> Works pretty good..



I'll take your endorsement then, installing 4201 now

I noticed 4006 (1206) isn't all that bad at stock and CO. CPU performance actually strong compared to 1200-1203. It's just that for some reason the power limits have been borked since BIOS 3801 - 142W PPT becomes 145W for some reason.


----------



## freeagent (May 7, 2022)

I will play with it some more after I get the kids to bed


----------



## Mussels (May 7, 2022)

4403 is out for my X570-F, Aggie-see-saw of 1.2.0.7

I'll give it a shot and let the system run on "stock" settings and see how temps are, then try with PBO on  - i want to see what the boosts are like, vs the max temps with my heat monster

Edit: oh and i love that i can BIOS flash straight from NTFS drives and not even need USB drives - modern BIOS tools are AWESOME.

Older BIOS 4.6GHz locked temps: (also handy for me since it shows my RAM timings, voltages etc)




Scuse the wobbles, motion photo from phone converted to gif

This is what drives 5800x owners nuts


----------



## tabascosauz (May 7, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I will play with it some more after I get the kids to bed



Think you're right. 1207 does seem to do the same with less clock, scores the same as 1206 (ST is low because Windows 11). New AGESA takes a few days to settle in, so I'll check back.


----------



## Ibizadr (May 7, 2022)

@freeagent with 1.2.0.7 we can push ppt after 140? Im still on 1.2.0.3c because of that.


----------



## freeagent (May 7, 2022)

Ibizadr said:


> @freeagent with 1.2.0.7 we can push ppt after 140? Im still on 1.2.0.3c because of that.


Yessir


----------



## Ibizadr (May 7, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Yessir


OH boy let's save some ss of settings in bios and ram to do it all again. Here we go.


----------



## Mussels (May 9, 2022)

backing up my wobbly GIF above: somethings different with idles.
Yes, i get those sudden spikes of 20C changes (honestly i think it changes which core its measuring, hence the sudden changes) - but i never used to get minimum idles that low previously.

Todays update with the new AGESA: stock settings, other than TRFC and ram to 3900/1800

2 hours of Dying light (1440p 165Hz pew pew + 3 hours of desktop use/idling)

I'm seeing 50Mhz less boost (Keep in mind those boosts could be for single digit milliseconds) with 4.8Ghz peak vs 4.85
--------------------------------------------------(Current      - min    - max -    average)




Average idle temps are lower than before, by a good margin. 72C peak is perfectly fine combined with a 3090 (Notice that *Tdie hit 72C*, but the *cores themselves are 58C-65C*)




At present on 1.2.0.7, i'm seeing what i wish i had all along: core temps under 65C with more or less the maximum low thread boost clocks


And an R23 run with current values only - not a clean OS, background tasks running (Avoiding the clocks from the gaming history)
4.55GHz (measuring error it seems) vs the 4.3 i'd see on the older AGESA, 68C at 145W (ouch, needs that curve undervolt)

Temps are definitely better, performance is good. They changed something.


----------



## Ibizadr (May 9, 2022)

I need to try this bios version, I'm on 1.2.0.3c and don't have any problems with it, but what I think something not good in your bios @Mussels cause normally voltage goes to 1.5 v on my 1.2.0.3c bios version and in yours only got 1.33v.  you change your Edc limit past 140?

Edit: msi don't launch yet 1.2.0.7 to my b450 tomahawk max II, only 1.2.0.6c from 20/04. Waiting more days to see if they launch 1.2.0.7


----------



## tabascosauz (May 9, 2022)

Ibizadr said:


> I need to try this bios version, I'm on 1.2.0.3c and don't have any problems with it, but what I think something not good in your bios @Mussels cause normally voltage goes to 1.5 v on my 1.2.0.3c bios version and in yours only got 1.33v.  you change your Edc limit past 140?
> 
> Edit: msi don't launch yet 1.2.0.7 to my b450 tomahawk max II, only 1.2.0.6c from 20/04. Waiting more days to see if they launch 1.2.0.7



VID =! Vcore

1.487V SVI2 vcore which is normal

afaik VID is only useful for seeing if curve optimizer is working, or which cores are being used the most for ST. If you see 1.5V VID then you may have some big board problems on your hands. I've never seen >1.35V VID.

@Mussels are you at stock power limits when reaching 145W? It's not just my Impact that thinks 145=142?


----------



## Ibizadr (May 9, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> VID =! Vcore
> 
> 1.487V SVI2 vcore which is normal
> 
> ...


My core vid goes to 1. 5v I will do a ss and post it later. I think I don't have any problems with board or I'm not seeing any problems, no reboots no weird behavior. I'm not on stock limits


----------



## tabascosauz (May 9, 2022)

Ibizadr said:


> My core vid goes to 1. 5v I will do a ss and post it later. I think I don't have any problems with board or I'm not seeing any problems, no reboots no weird behavior. I'm not on stock limits



Ah, no. I see what you mean. Disable Snapshot Polling, and VID goes to 1.5V. It also makes the VID pretty much the same across all cores, doesn't seem to be any per-core VID behaviour anymore, seems to make VID useless.

Personally I think I prefer Snapshot Polling on, because VID illustrates load distribution on cores. But on ROG boards we also get a die-sense voltage circuit, which is much more accurate all the time than Vcore SVI2 TFN or VID (close to Vcore that Ryzen Master reports).


----------



## LifeOnMars (May 9, 2022)

Meanwhile on my old shitty Asrock B450 board they only have a bios up to 1.2.0.2 AGESA 

Anyone know how I can contact Asrock and get a new bios from them?  Otherwise, I might just get a nice new board. I'm not bothered about upgrades or anything/EOL for at least three years. I've only recently got the 5700x and 3080 12Gb and my games backlog is huge which this setup will easily handle.


----------



## Mussels (May 10, 2022)

Ibizadr said:


> I need to try this bios version, I'm on 1.2.0.3c and don't have any problems with it, but what I think something not good in your bios @Mussels cause normally voltage goes to 1.5 v on my 1.2.0.3c bios version and in yours only got 1.33v.  you change your Edc limit past 140?
> 
> Edit: msi don't launch yet 1.2.0.7 to my b450 tomahawk max II, only 1.2.0.6c from 20/04. Waiting more days to see if they launch 1.2.0.7


Mine was pure stock settings, and IMO they're working great

Today saw a peak of 1.487v on the vcore, so that 1.33 was just low for that gaming session i guess

Heres a longer 5 hour time period, have some numbers


----------



## Chomiq (May 10, 2022)

LifeOnMars said:


> Meanwhile on my old shitty Asrock B450 board they only have a bios up to 1.2.0.2 AGESA
> 
> Anyone know how I can contact Asrock and get a new bios from them?  Otherwise, I might just get a nice new board. I'm not bothered about upgrades or anything/EOL for at least three years. I've only recently got the 5700x and 3080 12Gb and my games backlog is huge which this setup will easily handle.


Looks like they just dumped this board, you might want to contact them using this form:





						ASRock > Support Request Form
					






					event.asrock.com
				




Otherwise you might wait for AM5 to drop and pick up some B550 board on sale or a used X570 from someone upgrading.


----------



## LifeOnMars (May 10, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> Looks like they just dumped this board, you might want to contact them using this form:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeh tbh that makes more sense, prices should crash for a little bit on those boards before they then become 'expensive' again due to rarity. Sounds like a plan, performance is good for me anyway so I'm not really sacrificing much but would be nice to maximize potential.


----------



## freeagent (May 11, 2022)

Man, I am torn. I had good results with the newest AGESA, but rolling back to an older one really woke up these cores, and I picked up a few GBP/s. Don't let those high clocks fool you though, she wont pass core cycler like this.. but I get no crashes and it passes everything except CC lol   

TM5 used to throw thread handling exception errors until I tweaked it enough to run it at +200, Super Pi 32M is good too for the single core boosts. Getting it to run like that in 11 took some figgering, but I got it. All so I didn't have to revert to a static OC just to run TM5  

Also, that spike on CCD1 was a freak, 97% of the time it was sitting at 80-81.

I am dual booting 10 and 11, Aida doesn't show such nice L3 numbers with this AGESA.

10 passes at 10GB just to warm it up a little.. the uneven ram temps are from playing a game.. the system is quiet ish.


----------



## tabascosauz (May 11, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Man, I am torn. I had good results with the newest AGESA, but rolling back to an older one really woke up these cores, and I picked up a few GBP/s. Don't let those high clocks fool you though, she wont pass core cycler like this.. but I get no crashes and it passes everything except CC lol
> 
> TM5 used to throw thread handling exception errors until I tweaked it enough to run it at +200, Super Pi 32M is good too for the single core boosts. Getting it to run like that in 11 took some figgering, but I got it. All so I didn't have to revert to a static OC just to run TM5
> 
> ...



You really like living on the edge huh   I've never seen TM5 error out from CPU instability before

Interestingly enough L3 numbers over here on 11 are the highest they've ever been on 1206 and 1207. About a TB/sec or more on all 3, used to be like 800/sec on Win10 1203 and like 140 when bugged


----------



## freeagent (May 12, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> You really like living on the edge huh   I've never seen TM5 error out from CPU instability before
> 
> Interestingly enough L3 numbers over here on 11 are the highest they've ever been on 1206 and 1207. About a TB/sec or more on all 3, used to be like 800/sec on Win10 1203 and like 140 when bugged


Yup I was seeing very high L3 numbers in 11 using 1207. 10 was about the same. About the same as running an all core clock of somewhere around 4600-4700MHz all core. Never saw TM5 throw that error? Oh man it was my bane for weeks after I got the cpu lol. To the point I just resorted to a static oc lol. I could get 25 passes in no problem now though, takes a bit with 32GB though..


----------



## Mussels (May 12, 2022)

Either my CPU mutated, or somethings changed with the new AGESA

Ran it three times, it thinks i can do -30 on all cores






Edit: i get the feeling it's not actually applying the undervolt


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (May 12, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Either my CPU mutated, or somethings changed with the new AGESA
> 
> Ran it three times, it thinks i can do -30 on all cores
> 
> View attachment 247109



RM said -19 all-core for my 5950x.  It crashed on _CPU-Z Benchmark_.

Go home AMD, you're drunk.


----------



## Mussels (May 12, 2022)

-30 is saved in the BIOS, and 100% stable... but i'm not seeing any reduction in voltages. may be bugged BIOS.


----------



## tabascosauz (May 12, 2022)

Mussels said:


> -30 is saved in the BIOS, and 100% stable... but i'm not seeing any reduction in voltages. may be bugged BIOS.



My 5700G recommendations weren't even in the same ballpark as stable. It takes a special kind of stupid to crash during AIDA for CPU, not mem instability. It tried to recommend some -30 BS for my 5900X as well, so it's not even that it doesn't understand APUs.

It's still testing the cores out to what feels like reasonable clocks, so it must be something wonky with its post-test evaluation.

So many good tools out there for testing CO at this point. Ryzen Master is no faster at testing either. Literally another worthless feature from AMD software team.


----------



## Mussels (May 12, 2022)

weekendgeek said:


> RM said -19 all-core for my 5950x.  It crashed on _CPU-Z Benchmark_.
> 
> Go home AMD, you're drunk.


RM has an offset, so you can let it pick its saved settings and do +5 so -25 becomes -20 for this reason



tabascosauz said:


> My 5700G recommendations weren't even in the same ballpark as stable. It takes a special kind of stupid to crash during AIDA for CPU, not mem instability. It tried to recommend some -30 BS for my 5900X as well, so it's not even that it doesn't understand APUs.
> 
> It's still testing the cores out to what feels like reasonable clocks, so it must be something wonky with its post-test evaluation.
> 
> So many good tools out there for testing CO at this point. Ryzen Master is no faster at testing either. Literally another worthless feature from AMD software team.



Tested on my brothers system, and it worked flawlessy with his 5900x

It's just not working for everyone, why is that worthless?


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (May 12, 2022)

Mussels said:


> RM has an offset, so you can let it pick its saved settings and do +5 so -25 becomes -20 for this reason



It also has an uninstall option which I used.


----------



## tabascosauz (May 12, 2022)

Mussels said:


> RM has an offset, so you can let it pick its saved settings and do +5 so -25 becomes -20 for this reason
> 
> Tested on my brothers system, and it worked flawlessy with his 5900x
> 
> It's just not working for everyone, why is that worthless?



Isn't it instructed that you supposed to set all 0 for RM, if determining (not just testing) CO values? Or, I'm pretty sure it forces a reboot first to clear the AMD OC BIOS menu before it starts testing.

Then it becomes no better than CTR......because corecycler and OCCT work as advertised, every time, and have been around since forever. They might have some minor differences as to the exact offset that they think is stable, but nothing as nearly egregious as mistaking -2 or -9 for -30 all core.

Also, what's "100% stable"? Did you test? If your 5800X is already able to do at least -20 or even max out at -30, then you won't see enough instability to crash in daily tasks...


----------



## Mussels (May 13, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Isn't it instructed that you supposed to set all 0 for RM, if determining (not just testing) CO values? Or, I'm pretty sure it forces a reboot first to clear the AMD OC BIOS menu before it starts testing.
> 
> Then it becomes no better than CTR......because corecycler and OCCT work as advertised, every time, and have been around since forever. They might have some minor differences as to the exact offset that they think is stable, but nothing as nearly egregious as mistaking -2 or -9 for -30 all core.
> 
> Also, what's "100% stable"? Did you test? If your 5800X is already able to do at least -20 or even max out at -30, then you won't see enough instability to crash in daily tasks...


Some of my cores are unstable lower than -5
corecycler and OCCT cant automatically adjust BIOS settings and save the results, so for those of us where it works, it's simple.
I'm on a broken BIOS, doesnt matter what software or BIOS settings i enter, nothing will work until i update it.


----------



## freeagent (May 13, 2022)

Mussels said:


> I'm on a broken BIOS, doesnt matter what software or BIOS settings i enter, nothing will work until i update it.



Why don't you update it? Just curious..


----------



## tabascosauz (May 14, 2022)

Testing the 2205 5700G

Damn.......why can't we get this kind of core temp delta on chiplets? Less than 2 degrees across all cores. Default corecycler so each core draws about 17-18W maxed out.


----------



## Mussels (May 15, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Why don't you update it? Just curious..


Cause it's the latest BETA that's got this bug, and apart from the curve not working everything else is great. I'm getting my full performance at lower temps even without a functional curve undervolt.


----------



## freeagent (May 15, 2022)

I still want a 5800X, I know they are beasts.. If it is easier to cool than a 5900X I would flip it for sure. It still does 5GHz, and that's all I really wanted, well and a 2K FCLK 

My Strix boards have been fantastic for me, I don't have anything bad to say, other than the price of the XE is steep for a B550. But it kind of makes up for it in other areas..


----------



## Mussels (May 15, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I still want a 5800X, I know they are beasts.. If it is easier to cool than a 5900X I would flip it for sure. It still does 5GHz, and that's all I really wanted, well and a 2K FCLK
> 
> My Strix boards have been fantastic for me, I don't have anything bad to say, other than the price of the XE is steep for a B550. But it kind of makes up for it in other areas..


They need less cooling, and multi threaded temps are low - they just have high spikes low threaded for that nuts boost.

I can get 80C single threaded and 60C multi threaded, and that just confuses people who assume that ST should be cooler than MT


----------



## YautjaLord (May 21, 2022)

Some fixing has to be done, but overall runs good, only thing non-stock is RAM frequency - 4000MHz (XMP). Pics:



Video is in a works (yeah, i know, it takes a f*ckload of time, i myself shocked  ), will edit it on this beast.  One more:



Last pic taken with Galaxy A71.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (May 21, 2022)

YautjaLord said:


> Some fixing has to be done, but overall runs good, only thing non-stock is RAM frequency - 4000MHz (XMP). Pics:
> 
> View attachment 248229View attachment 248230View attachment 248231View attachment 248232
> 
> ...






The two kinked pipes look awful, why not put low profile 90's on them?


----------



## YautjaLord (May 21, 2022)

Tigger said:


> View attachment 248241
> The two kinked pipes look awful, why not put low profile 90's on them?



They not actually kinked, but rather "twisted" a bit? Also, low profile 90's? Maybe i'll loosen 'em up a bit & won't be so awful as you describe.  Thanx regardless. Would still like to know what are the low profile 90's are.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (May 21, 2022)

YautjaLord said:


> They not actually kinked, but rather "twisted" a bit? Also, low profile 90's? Maybe i'll loosen 'em up a bit & won't be so awful as you describe.  Thanx regardless. Would still like to know what are the low profile 90's are.



These
https://www.ekwb.com/news/the-most-compact-90-rotary-adapters-for-sff-builds/


----------



## YautjaLord (May 21, 2022)

Tigger said:


> These
> https://www.ekwb.com/news/the-most-compact-90-rotary-adapters-for-sff-builds/



Maybe buy a couple of these by the end of this year, thanx. I call them angled fittings.


----------



## Mussels (May 23, 2022)

Tigger said:


> View attachment 248241
> The two kinked pipes look awful, why not put low profile 90's on them?


Over time, bent hoses like that pull out slowly and leak - definitely work on it when you can


----------



## outpt (May 23, 2022)

weekendgeek said:


> RM said -19 all-core for my 5950x.  It crashed on _CPU-Z Benchmark_.
> 
> Go home AMD, you're drunk.


-29 on my 5950x. That’s a hard pass for me. Maybe they need to change the filter on their bong.


----------



## Pictus (May 23, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Either my CPU mutated, or somethings changed with the new AGESA
> 
> Ran it three times, it thinks i can do -30 on all cores
> 
> ...



Not 100% sure, but I think here(TUF Gaming B550-Plus) seems like the Curve Optimizer only works
from the ADVANCED menu and not from the AI TWEAKER menu, at least from the latest beta BIOS.


----------



## The King (May 24, 2022)

FCLK 1933 No WHEA errors


----------



## R0H1T (May 24, 2022)

The latest (beta) BIOS' rolling with ~


> Update to AGESA ComboAm4v2PI 1.2.0.7.


MSI MAG x570 updated


----------



## Mussels (May 26, 2022)

I'm really leaning towards getting a 5500 for my x370/2700x rig at some point

Now this is from Toms so it's not what i'd call TPU levels of neutrality, but it's matching what i've seen of mine and my brothers 3700x averaging 120FPS in modern titles even with high end GPU's





So if the 5500 is a tiny upgrade to my 3700x, it should be a good upgrade from my 2700x... you know, the one thats missing three pins and has bits of cut off SATA cable in the socket to make it boot.


----------



## freeagent (May 26, 2022)

Mussels said:


> you know, the one thats missing three pins and has bits of cut off SATA cable in the socket to make it boot.


I love hearing stories like this.


----------



## tabascosauz (May 26, 2022)

@Mussels do it, so you can pair it with AGESA 1203 like I do and get 36 gigahertz L3 cache


----------



## Mussels (May 27, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> @Mussels do it, so you can pair it with AGESA 1203 like I do and get 36 gigahertz L3 cache
> 
> View attachment 248882


This seems quite logical, I too like breaking reality


----------



## LifeOnMars (May 27, 2022)

OK so even though I'm limited to AGESA 1.2.0.2 (actually it's 1.2.0.0. due to bugged 2.80 bios restarting in some games) because of lazy ass AssRock, I've been playing around with PBO and curve optimizer. Settled on 150 boost so I'm hitting 4800 on SC and MC seems to be a fairly consistent 4.5-4.6 when needed. Voltage only goes up to 1.32 on SC boost so I'm pretty happy with that. With my cheap Vetroo 5 set to quiet mode and my fan controller set to quiet in bios the max I hit is 78c when Prime 95, core cycling, extended cinebench etc. It goes right down to low 60's when I apply a standard fan curve and is still not loud (Loving the airflow in this Meshify Compact)

Would like to start tweaking my RAM and with this I have no idea. @Taraquin where you at my man?   All I've done currently is change it from 3200/1600IF to 3600/1800 IF and raised voltage to 1.4v. Timings are @ 16/19/16 36 72 1T. Been heavily gaming on it with no issues whatsoever for the past two weeks but have not carried out stability tests as such. Help would be very much appreciated peeps, thanks.


----------



## Taraquin (May 27, 2022)

LifeOnMars said:


> OK so even though I'm limited to AGESA 1.2.0.2 (actually it's 1.2.0.0. due to bugged 2.80 bios restarting in some games) because of lazy ass AssRock, I've been playing around with PBO and curve optimizer. Settled on 150 boost so I'm hitting 4800 on SC and MC seems to be a fairly consistent 4.5-4.6 when needed. Voltage only goes up to 1.32 on SC boost so I'm pretty happy with that. With my cheap Vetroo 5 set to quiet mode and my fan controller set to quiet in bios the max I hit is 78c when Prime 95, core cycling, extended cinebench etc. It goes right down to low 60's when I apply a standard fan curve and is still not loud (Loving the airflow in this Meshify Compact)
> 
> Would like to start tweaking my RAM and with this I have no idea. @Taraquin where you at my man?   All I've done currently is change it from 3200/1600IF to 3600/1800 IF and raised voltage to 1.4v. Timings are @ 16/19/16 36 72 1T. Been heavily gaming on it with no issues whatsoever for the past two weeks but have not carried out stability tests as such. Help would be very much appreciated peeps, thanks.


Find out which dies they are with thaiphoon burner. Timings sounds like Micron rev E if 2x8 or rev B if 2x16gb. Would also suggest trying 3800/1900 to see if it works. Set SOC voltage to 1.15v and 1.05v vddg iod.


----------



## The King (May 27, 2022)

Who needs ZEN4 to reach 5GHZ!


----------



## LifeOnMars (May 27, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Find out which dies they are with thaiphoon burner. Timings sounds like Micron rev E if 2x8 or rev B if 2x16gb. Would also suggest trying 3800/1900 to see if it works. Set SOC voltage to 1.15v and 1.05v vddg iod.


Spot on , they are Micron E according to thaiphoon. I have 4 x 8. Here's what it says I'm currently running at within Zen timings -




So should I try 3800/1900 with these timings or stock XMP and 1.4V?


----------



## The King (May 27, 2022)

LifeOnMars said:


> Spot on , they are Micron E according to thaiphoon. I have 4 x 8. Here's what it says I'm currently running at within Zen timings -
> View attachment 248998
> 
> So should I try 3800/1900 with these timings or stock XMP and 1.4V?


If it  says M8FE1 then its E-die if it says M8FB1 then its Micron B-die

I have several Mircon kits try these timmings with higher SCLs. my 1700X loved low SCLs

 These are C9BJZ ICs


----------



## Taraquin (May 27, 2022)

LifeOnMars said:


> Spot on , they are Micron E according to thaiphoon. I have 4 x 8. Here's what it says I'm currently running at within Zen timings -
> View attachment 248998
> 
> So should I try 3800/1900 with these timings or stock XMP and 1.4V?


Set RCDRD to 20, voltage to 1.15v soc, 1.05v iod, ram volt to 1.45v and keep rest of timings. Seeif it works, if unstable try 3733/1866 or 3666/1833.


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## Ibizadr (May 27, 2022)

Today I updated to agesa 1.2.0.7, past 140 Edc limit cpu vcore to 1.42. Try my 1900/3800 cl14 it was stable. Time to aim to 2000/4000 to see if whea errors are gone forever. With 1.2.0.3c I can't pass 1900/3800 without whea errors. I will say something later when got home from work.


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## The King (May 27, 2022)

Ibizadr said:


> Today I updated to agesa 1.2.0.7, past 140 Edc limit cpu vcore to 1.42. Try my 1900/3800 cl14 it was stable. Time to aim to 2000/4000 to see if whea errors are gone forever. With 1.2.0.3c I can't pass 1900/3800 without whea errors. I will say something later when got home from work.


To get rid of WHEA errors at 2000/4000 increase VSOC offest by +0.0125 till the WHEA errors stops.


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## Ibizadr (May 27, 2022)

The King said:


> To get rid of WHEA errors at 2000/4000 increase VSOC offest by +0.0125 till the WHEA errors stops.


So no override on VSOC. What VSOC you choose to use by offset? 1.1? And then increase offset till wheas are gone?


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## The King (May 27, 2022)

Ibizadr said:


> So no override on VSOC. What VSOC you choose to use by offset? 1.1? And then increase offset till wheas are gone?


Around 1.18 for 1933 not sure what it was for 2000 FCLK, you may need over 1.2V to get WHEA free


----------



## Dinnercore (May 29, 2022)

Just finished transforming my OC-bench into a workstation. First time back on Ryzen since the TR 1950x. I have to say, the little note on the CPU box recommending watercooling had me worried for a bit. But the NH-D15 can handle stock power limits just fine. Funny how the first CPU that asks for liquid cooling is the only one I run on air.


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## tabascosauz (May 29, 2022)

Dinnercore said:


> Just finished transforming my OC-bench into a workstation. First time back on Ryzen since the TR 1950x. I have to say, the little note on the CPU box recommending watercooling had me worried for a bit. But the NH-D15 can handle stock power limits just fine. Funny how the first CPU that asks for liquid cooling is the only one I run on air.
> 
> View attachment 249177



Did the watercooling note give you FX9590 flashbacks?  

5950X is the coolest running current Ryzen CPU aside from the 5600X and the APUs (not ST temps of course). If anything it's the best choice for air. The per-core draw is so low in MT that you'd actually have to go pretty low on the cooler to get it hot


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## Mussels (May 29, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Did the watercooling note give you FX9590 flashbacks?
> 
> 5950X is the coolest running current Ryzen CPU aside from the 5600X and the APUs (not ST temps of course). If anything it's the best choice for air. The per-core draw is so low in MT that you'd actually have to go pretty low on the cooler to get it hot


Too true - it can actually spread the heat out easiest of them all

I so hope AM5's new IHS helps with that


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## freeagent (May 29, 2022)

So a few weeks back I was trying to program my ram with some new RGB settings. I was sick of looking at the rainbow scrolling. I liked the Spectrum Cycle effect, it matched what the stock lighting effect is on my mobo. So I "flashed" it? It says save to device.. Anywhoo.. somehow along the way the LEDs were set to off and everytime I turned off the PC and back on again, only one stick would light up. It messed with my OCD bigtime 

Anywhoo.. I just got it working with the Spectrum Cycle, and at a speed that I like, super happy and my OCD has subsided for the moment lol.. Now I have the spectrum cycle at default instead of the scrolling rainbow. Yay 

I probably wont mess with it anymore


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## Dinnercore (May 29, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Did the watercooling note give you FX9590 flashbacks?
> 
> 5950X is the coolest running current Ryzen CPU aside from the 5600X and the APUs (not ST temps of course). If anything it's the best choice for air. The per-core draw is so low in MT that you'd actually have to go pretty low on the cooler to get it hot


I never had an FX9590, at that time I had an FX6300. Used that one until Zen 1 came out actually.

MT efficiency is insane with the 5950x. I think I'll just keep it at the stock 95A TDC. It performs similar to an overclocked, 400W 10980XE with just 105W. And with the dynamic boost adapting to switching workloads (Fluid sims have single thread heavy components) it runs circles around the 'weak' 10980XE. And the 2990WX Threadripper too.

I don't think I'll try any manual OC, its fine as is and efficiency plus stability is more important right now. I did try a negative offset for the curve optimizer. It runs fine at -30 and dropped MT voltage from 1.09V to 1.06V while improving CB scores.
I was a little worried about single thread boosting, since during GPU rendering it constantly boosted to 5.05GHz with up to 1.5V on that core, but at -30 with 1.46V I feel comfortable. This will be running a lot and der8auer had seen some degradation from 1.45V all-core after 4000h. We can probably trust AMD with stock settings, but I sleep better at night knowing that it's not hammering 1.5V 24/7. It got to 74°C on ST loads before, now it stays just below 70°C.


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## tabascosauz (May 29, 2022)

Dinnercore said:


> I never had an FX9590, at that time I had an FX6300. Used that one until Zen 1 came out actually.
> 
> MT efficiency is insane with the 5950x. I think I'll just keep it at the stock 95A TDC. It performs similar to an overclocked, 400W 10980XE with just 105W. And with the dynamic boost adapting to switching workloads (Fluid sims have single thread heavy components) it runs circles around the 'weak' 10980XE. And the 2990WX Threadripper too.
> 
> ...



FX9590 initially came with the AIO bundle I think, that's why I mentioned  

For Ryzen the degradation doesn't apply to ST boost. Ryzen degrades through current @ high temp @ high volt (all-core and obscene PBO where current limits aren't observed).1.5V stock and the hot ST temps are perfectly acceptable in that context. You can rest easy. If you're at stock, 142/95/140, you won't break your CPU ever.

HWInfo has a tough time telling what Vcore actually is, when not under significant load.  Ryzen Master does better in that regard, and so does Asus' die sense Vcore circuit if you have Hero/Formula/Impact/Extreme board.


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## Hardi (May 29, 2022)

new 1.2.0.7 agesa for my gb x470 gaming 7 also came out for a while now, so decided to try if the vddg 1,0 voltage limit is finallly fixed and it is.
before that i was on 1.2.0.3B from last year july.
everything seems to work fine now, one improvement for me is that before windows used cores 1 & 3 as my best cores when really it was 2 & 4, now thats fixed.

if 2000 still not happening though, can get it to boot fine but wheas. vsoc 1,2 and vddgs 1075. as high as i like to go and no go.


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## tabascosauz (May 29, 2022)

Dinnercore said:


> View attachment 249231



I forgot to mention, update your HWInfo. There's been a lot of new monitoring metrics for Zen added in the past 2 years.


----------



## LifeOnMars (May 31, 2022)

Well I've sent an email just now to Asrock regarding possibly updating the AGESA and bios. Still sitting on 1.2.0.0  with bios 2.70. Can't use 2.80 which contains 1.2.0.2(still ) as it restarts the PC on a couple of games Watchdogs 2 and Ghost Recon Wildlands (Doesn't happen on 2.70)

I'll see if they respond.

EDIT - Got a fairly quick reply from AsRock, they are set to release a new, up to date bios for the B450M Pro4-F with AGESA 1.2.0.7 in the next three weeks. Good to hear I guess and I'm thankful for a swift reply but what's been the hold up


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## Muaadib (Jun 2, 2022)

Late to the party but I'm finally on the Ryzen 5000 train. I've been trying to tinker with my 5600 a bit using curve optimizer. With (-28,-30,-30,-30,-22,-23) I managed to get roughly 4.6 All core running Cinebench but only 4.65 Single. I have a few questions if you dont mind:

1. Is 4.6 All-core a good OC?
2. I saw some people can change the max speed offset to be above +200. Is there anyway to do this if my motherboard only allows up to +200? the reason is I think i have a lot of unused headroom since the all-core speed is 4.6-4.65 so the single core should boost higher.
3. related to the previous question. Is it feasible (or even doable) to edit the bios to increase the offset limit?
4. My RAM is running at 3800C16, should I try to go for higher frequency or lower latency?

Unrelated but i wanted to boast, I got the highest TimeSpy result for my CPU/GPU (5600/rx5700) combo and even 2nd highest for (5600x/rx5700)


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## Ibizadr (Jun 2, 2022)

Muaadib said:


> Late to the party but I'm finally on the Ryzen 5000 train. I've been trying to tinker with my 5600 a bit using curve optimizer. With (-28,-30,-30,-30,-22,-23) I managed to get roughly 4.6 All core running Cinebench but only 4.65 Single. I have a few questions if you dont mind:
> 
> 1. Is 4.6 All-core a good OC?
> 2. I saw some people can change the max speed offset to be above +200. Is there anyway to do this if my motherboard only allows up to +200? the reason is I think i have a lot of unused headroom since the all-core speed is 4.6-4.65 so the single core should boost higher.
> ...


You can't change bios to go higher than +200mhz, if it only goes to +200mhz it's max in your bios version, and I think only on old bios releases we can push more than 200mhz. Try to running your ram past 3800mhz it's not easy but not impossible, you need it 3800mhz + no whea error on event viewer. If you can't past 3800mhz without whea errors aim for lower timings.


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## Mussels (Jun 2, 2022)

You could set the offset above +200 on some boards and BIOS, but the clocks never actually went that high. Some software reported faulty readings that made it seem like it went higher, in the past.

4.6 is a pretty standard all core OC on zen 3, very few can manage a stock OC higher than that.

The 5600x is a 3.7GHz CPU with 4.6GHz boost, so i'm not sure why you're concerned it's not boosting higher than that. with +200 (and less extreme curve undervolting) you should boost to 4.8 low threaded (remember, you wont see that 4.8 in shit like R23 single threaded  it happens at LOW load, for brief bursts)





3800C16 is pretty good, make sure your IF is running at 1900, auto tends to get stuck at 1800 on some boards.
@Taraquin might have some memory timings you could try, his advice narrowing my TRFC down greatly helped my system


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## Muaadib (Jun 2, 2022)

Ibizadr said:


> You can't change bios to go higher than +200mhz, if it only goes to +200mhz it's max in your bios version, and I think only on old bios releases we can push more than 200mhz. Try to running your ram past 3800mhz it's not easy but not impossible, you need it 3800mhz + no whea error on event viewer. If you can't past 3800mhz without whea errors aim for lower timings.


Thanks, Since i'm using a 5600 I'm guessing old bioses are out of the question. I will just settle with +200 then.

No WHEA errors at 3800C16, I will try to see If i can push Freq up or latencies down.


Mussels said:


> You could set the offset above +200 on some boards and BIOS, but the clocks never actually went that high. Some software reported faulty readings that made it seem like it went higher, in the past.
> 
> 4.6 is a pretty standard all core OC on zen 3, very few can manage a stock OC higher than that.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice. I'm using the 5600 non-x so the base/boost frequencies are 3.5/4.4. I'm already maxing the +200 at 4.6Ghz multi and  single max burst is 4.65Ghz. Just thought I could potentially reach more single thread freq since multi thread freq is so close to it.

I'm a novice when it comes to memory overclocking. Just followed Ryzen DRAM calculator to get these timings so any tips here are much appreciated.


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## Mussels (Jun 2, 2022)

Muaadib said:


> Thanks, Since i'm using a 5600 I'm guessing old bioses are out of the question. I will just settle with +200 then.
> 
> No WHEA errors at 3800C16, I will try to see If i can push Freq up or latencies down.
> 
> ...


You could ENTER +200, it wouldnt actually go above +200.

Oh i missed that it's the non X, so yeah my clocks are slightly higher than you'd get - but not by much.
Since your ST and MT are so close, you're one of the few situations a static all core OC is a viable idea.

Preferably with the per-CCX overclocking your BIOS should have somewhere, throw in a 46x multi and use VID to set the voltage if you can in the same menu
Using per CCX lets the cores fully sleep with all power saving active, if your BIOS has the options for it. VID is more like a max voltage, so it can still idle lower.
(I have this menu on my x570, my brothers newer aorus x570s is missing the VID option and idles ~15W higher because of it)
I can get 4.6GHz at 1.225V, or 4.45-5.05 with turbo. (In summer i do the 4.6, winter i let it roam free. 40C ambients dont help boost)


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## Muaadib (Jun 2, 2022)

Mussels said:


> You could ENTER +200, it wouldnt actually go above +200.
> 
> Oh i missed that it's the non X, so yeah my clocks are slightly higher than you'd get - but not by much.
> Since your ST and MT are so close, you're one of the few situations a static all core OC is a viable idea.
> ...


Thanks for the insight. If you don't mind me asking, What is the difference between just using CO vs static all core OC? I'm assuming its to set lower voltage and therefore lower temps in the all-core OC?

Which leads me to my next question, If using per CCX OC lets the cores sleep, Couldn't I try to go for a higher OC if temps/stability permit? technically bypassing the PBO +200 limit.

Sorry for the numerous questions. I just find tinkering with new stuff facinating. Thank you for your patience and help.


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## The King (Jun 2, 2022)

Muaadib said:


> Thanks, Since i'm using a 5600 I'm guessing old bioses are out of the question. I will just settle with +200 then.
> 
> No WHEA errors at 3800C16, I will try to see If i can push Freq up or latencies down.
> 
> ...


I'm running the same CPU and RAM here are some of my settings. To get over 4.65 ST you need to use Hydra Hybrid OC.






RAM you can try 3800 CL15 with GDM off or 3800 CL14 with GDM on both pass TM5.


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## Muaadib (Jun 2, 2022)

Thanks for the lovely info. Funny that you mentioned Hydra as I used myself and it got around 4.8Ghz but it kept randomly restarting so I went back to just PBO. I will give it another try and try to match those ram timings. Cheers!


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## harm9963 (Jun 3, 2022)

Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 4000MHz CL 16-16-16-36 UDIMM Low-Latency Gaming Memory Kits - PVS416G400C6K​Been a week now of testing  ,new 32GB RAM is rock steady !


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## tabascosauz (Jun 3, 2022)

harm9963 said:


> Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 4000MHz CL 16-16-16-36 UDIMM Low-Latency Gaming Memory Kits - PVS416G400C6K​Been a week now of testing  ,new 32GB RAM is rock steady !



If using TM5 remember to run as admin, and use another testing profile. default @ serj is not very effective, and can't get much done in 7 minutes

Lots and lots of room on the B-die - you might be able to run 14-15-15 or 15-15-15 with less VDIMM and end up as fast if not even faster


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## freeagent (Jun 4, 2022)

I was messing around a bit with mine today.. For me SuperPi 32M was the program that would make my computer reboot. Those high clocks it try's to reach.. almost like the latency test in Aida, just a bit heavier. I set the affinity and ran it on each core individually from task manager.. took a little bit of time, but nothing excessive. I haven't run core cycler but pretty sure it would fail.. maybe.. I should try it again some time. I also ran some 3D, some Linpack.. just a little bit of everything..


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## Mussels (Jun 4, 2022)

Weirdly, this last week has been full of idle reboots for my PC. Nothing has changed other than ambient temps tanking.
Lowering RAM to 3600 has stabilised it, i wonder if my IMC, my RAM, or my PSU is dying. (The PSU has made some fun sounds lately)





Muaadib said:


> Thanks for the insight. If you don't mind me asking, What is the difference between just using CO vs static all core OC? I'm assuming its to set lower voltage and therefore lower temps in the all-core OC?
> 
> Which leads me to my next question, If using per CCX OC lets the cores sleep, Couldn't I try to go for a higher OC if temps/stability permit? technically bypassing the PBO +200 limit.
> 
> Sorry for the numerous questions. I just find tinkering with new stuff facinating. Thank you for your patience and help.


CO is reducing voltages of normal operation, while keeping boost and idle with their normal voltages (with whatever reduction you set)

All core overclock locks it to that one clock speed and voltage all the time.

per CCX overclocking locks load to the one multi and voltage, but allows the cores to sleep. If the BIOS has a VID setting in the per-CCX menu, you can get idle speeds and voltages as well.


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## The King (Jun 4, 2022)

Got delivered yeterday. Overall I'm quiet impressed 8 cores 16 threads in a small package.


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## Chomiq (Jun 4, 2022)

Ok, 5800X is in, any tips?

Currently using the stable 3600 CL14 profile I hijacked from @The King 




Any tips for trying 3800?


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## The King (Jun 4, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> Ok, 5800X is in, any tips?
> 
> Currently using the stable 3600 CL14 profile I hijacked from @The King
> 
> ...


REV. E can run very high 4000+ however 3800 would be the best has above that you would probably lose overall peformance.

Have you tried 1.45V and RCD @ 17 with your 3600 CL14?

For 3800 increase RCDRD to 19/20 TCL to 16. Try to see if that will boot at 1.45V. 3800 CL14 you may need 1.48-1.5V. Also drop both SCLs to 4 if its stable then drop to 3s.


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## Chomiq (Jun 4, 2022)

The King said:


> REV. E can run very high 4000+ however 3800 would be the best has above that you would probably lose overall peformance.
> 
> Have you tried 1.45V and RCD @ 17 with your 3600 CL14?
> 
> For 3800 increase RCDRD to 19/20 TCL to 16. Try to see if that will boot at 1.45V. 3800 CL14 you may need 1.48-1.5V. Also drop both SCLs to 4 if its stable then drop to 3s.


How about going for 3800 CL16?

Edit. 
Staying on 3600 CL14 for now, don't want to mess with troubleshooting 3800. 
I've set pbo to 95/60/90 based on Mussels guide and it's boosting nicely to 4850 when gaming.


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## QuietBob (Jun 8, 2022)

I already mentioned this in another thread but will also post a link here for more publicity:

*How to undervolt AMD RYZEN 5800X3D: Guide with PBO2 Tuner*

This helpful guide details how to enable and automate curve optimization on the 5800X3D, which is otherwise impossible. It will result in lower temperatures overall and higher boosting clocks in multicore loads. In my case it brought maximum temp down by 9c, from the already low 85c. All core clocks went up by 150 MHz during a 30 minute Cinebench R23 loop with 25c room ambient.


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## The King (Jun 9, 2022)

12900K got wrecked!


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## QuietBob (Jun 9, 2022)

The King said:


> 12900K got wrecked!
> View attachment 250402


And people say moar cores make a faster CPU. Nope, it's the clock that kills!


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## HD64G (Jun 9, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Weirdly, this last week has been full of idle reboots for my PC. Nothing has changed other than ambient temps tanking.
> Lowering RAM to 3600 has stabilised it, i wonder if my IMC, my RAM, or my PSU is dying. (The PSU has made some fun sounds lately)
> 
> 
> ...


Usually unstable RAM or undervolting causes that behaviour but since your RAM's clock decrease worked to make it stable it is profound that RAM was pushed too far. Glad you found the root of that fast enough.


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## Muaadib (Jun 12, 2022)

After some messing around using Hydra, got 4.8 ST and 4.65 MT. Core#5 is my weakest link but i'm satisfied with the results/temps so I will just stop here for now.
.



Tried to play with RAM timings a bit but I always got errors in memtest. Will try again sometime in the future.


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## The King (Jun 13, 2022)

Muaadib said:


> After some messing around using Hydra, got 4.8 ST and 4.65 MT. Core#5 is my weakest link but i'm satisfied with the results/temps so I will just stop here for now.
> .
> 
> Tried to play with RAM timings a bit but I always got errors in memtest. Will try again sometime in the future.


Sometimes lowering the -30 cores to  -29/28/27 etc  can increase the boost clock.

Try to keep the two best C0 cores at the same Boost clock if possible. Did you enable CPCC in the BIOS?

Since your temps are low EDC limit can be increased to 110A.


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## P4-630 (Jun 13, 2022)

Maybe old news, not sure​​Intermittent System Stutter Experienced with fTPM Enabled on Windows® 10 and 11​
*Update and Workaround*


*Update: *Affected PCs will require a motherboard system BIOS (sBIOS) update containing enhanced modules for fTPM interaction with SPIROM. AMD expects that flashable customer sBIOS files to be available starting in early May, 2022. Exact BIOS availability timing for a specific motherboard depends on the testing and integration schedule of your manufacturer. Flashable updates for motherboards will be based on AMD AGESA 1207 (or newer).
*Workaround: *As an immediate solution, affected customers dependent on fTPM functionality for Trusted Platform Module support may instead use a hardware TPM (“dTPM”) device for trusted computing. Platform dTPM modules utilize onboard non-volatile memory (NVRAM) that supersedes the TPM/SPIROM interaction described in this article.
*COMPATIBILITY: *Please check with your system or motherboard manufacturer to ensure that your platform supports add-in dTPM modules before attempting or implementing this workaround.
*WARNING: *If switching an active system from fTPM to dTPM, it is critical that you disable TPM-backed encryption systems (e.g. BitLocker Drive Encryption) and/or back up vital system data prior to switching TPM devices. You must have full administrative access to the system, or explicit support from your IT administrator if the system is managed. For more information on transferring ownership to a new TPM device, please visit this Microsoft webpage.




			https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/pa-410


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## Chomiq (Jun 13, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> Intermittent System Stutter Experienced with fTPM Enabled on Windows® 10 and 11​
> *Update and Workaround*
> 
> 
> ...


Luckily I did not bother to leave fTPM on (that way I won't get a "surprise" upgrade to W11).


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## Mussels (Jun 14, 2022)

If you install windows 11 via RUFUS, you dont need fTPM enabled and avoid this entirely

the bug is also fixed in AGESA 1.2.0.7


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## ratirt (Jun 14, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> How about going for 3800 CL16?
> 
> Edit.
> Staying on 3600 CL14 for now, don't want to mess with troubleshooting 3800.
> I've set pbo to 95/60/90 based on Mussels guide and it's boosting nicely to 4850 when gaming.


I got the 5800X and with the flareX 3200Mhz I got to 3800Mhz CL16 no problem 1.35v on mem. It was like 15 min try and boom worked. I will need to check the timings exactly but most of them I left at auto. I wanted to try going 3900 or 4000 even but did not have time. Plus I'm seeing weird temps on my CPU so it is time to re-paste maybe.

I've got to try that PBO stuff by @Mussels  when I get some free time.


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## Chomiq (Jun 14, 2022)

ratirt said:


> I got the 5800X and with the flareX 3200Mhz I got to 3800Mhz CL16 no problem 1.35v on mem. It was like 15 min try and boom worked. I will need to check the timings exactly but most of them I left at auto. I wanted to try going 3900 or 4000 even but did not have time. Plus I'm seeing weird temps on my CPU so it is time to re-paste maybe.
> 
> I've got to try that PBO stuff by @Mussels  when I get some free time.


95/60/90 on PBO with All Core curve on -15 basically lets me keep rock solid 4850 Mhz when playing Squad (which is lightly threaded badly optimized UE4, 30% CPU load max), pretty much the same with Hitman 2 in DX12 which loads up to 50% of the CPU. All at avg 62 C with occasional peaks super short spikes to 77 C.

I tried going with higher PBO values and trying +200 but the max I saw was 4950 for a brief second. I guess that stuff is reserved for people with AIO's.


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## P4-630 (Jun 18, 2022)

Ryzen 7000 may be coming September 15 2022.


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## Mussels (Jun 18, 2022)

TPU's ryzen 5500 review is up

Honestly, unless you're doing 240Hz gaming it seems to be 'good enough' for everyone


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## The King (Jun 18, 2022)

Mussels said:


> TPU's ryzen 5500 review is up
> 
> Honestly, unless you're doing 240Hz gaming it seems to be 'good enough' for everyone


5600 review?


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## Mussels (Jun 19, 2022)

The King said:


> 5600 review?


shoosh, yes.


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## Nordic (Jun 23, 2022)

I got around to updating my bios to the new AGESA. It performs 2-4% less than the previous bios.







Is per core CO undervolting any easier now? It was a real chore testing each core a year ago.
Does anyone have any suggestions to better tune my overclock? I have shown what settings I have recently tested above.


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## Mussels (Jun 24, 2022)

Half the difference here is the top 3 are dual rank, but i really wish i had CL14 ram right now


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## Nordic (Jun 24, 2022)

I have discovered Ryzen Master now has a Curve Optimizer. I let it run and it is seemingly stable so far. Performance is the exact same as all core -10 on the curve optimizer. I will need to test these values with OCCT.

Using Ryzen Master's auto overclock feature, I get better multicore performance than with my own tuning in the bios. I am unclear why. The marginal returns are small with 6% increase in multi-threaded with a 16% increase in power used. The auto overclock feature will push my cpu power to 180w while my manual tuning has a peak cpu power of 155w. The PBO Scaler settting is nebulous. I know what the equivilent setting is in the bios but I don't know what Ryzen Master is setting it too.


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## mstenholm (Jun 24, 2022)

Nordic said:


> I have discovered Ryzen Master now has a Curve Optimizer. I let it run and it is seemingly stable so far. Performance is the exact same as all core -10 on the curve optimizer. I will need to test these values with OCCT.
> 
> Using Ryzen Master's auto overclock feature, I get better multicore performance than with my own tuning in the bios. I am unclear why. The marginal returns are small with 6% increase in multi-threaded with a 16% increase in power used. The auto overclock feature will push my cpu power to 180w while my manual tuning has a peak cpu power of 155w. The PBO Scaler settting is nebulous. I know what the equivilent setting is in the bios but I don't know what Ryzen Master is setting it too.


It seem like the Ryzen Master may be good at running Cinebench23 but at the expense of a higher core voltage. What was it at for the 155w run and for the 180 one? 1.09 and 1.27 in average if you stay at the 142A during the auto OC. I do all in BIOS since I like it to work under Linux but I went to far with 1.056V at least for Rosetta. Cinebench23 had no problem running that low. I raised it to 1.088V but need some jobs to test.


----------



## Nordic (Jun 24, 2022)

mstenholm said:


> It seem like the Ryzen Master may be good at running Cinebench23 but at the expense of a higher core voltage. What was it at for the 155w run and for the 180 one? I do all in BIOS since I like it to work under Linux but I went to far with 1.056V at least for Rosetta. Cinebench23 had no problem running that low. I raised it to 1.088V but need some jobs to test.


By no means was I trying to claim it was an efficient overclock. You can see efficiency in the table I posted yesterday.

I can try to replicate the settings Ryzen master uses in the bios but I cannot get the same results. I don't know what magic they are doing behind the scenes.

It sounds like you are using all-core overclocking. I am trying to manipulate PBO to maximize my single core performance. I started playing with Ryzen Master to see if it gave me different results. It did. Ryzen master does allow me increase PPT/TDC/EDC from windows. I can quickly swap between 65w and 180w profiles if I wanted to.


----------



## mstenholm (Jun 24, 2022)

Nordic said:


> By no means was I trying to claim it was an efficient overclock. You can see efficiency in the table I posted yesterday.
> 
> I can try to replicate the settings Ryzen master uses in the bios but I cannot get the same results. I don't know what magic they are doing behind the scenes.
> 
> It sounds like you are using all-core overclocking. I am trying to manipulate PBO to maximize my single core performance. I started playing with Ryzen Master to see if it gave me different results. It did. Ryzen master does allow me increase PPT/TDC/EDC from windows. I can quickly swap between 65w and 180w profiles if I wanted to.


I know that you care about the efficiency, saw the table, and I was’t rubbing your nose in the high voltage. I was curious. Yes the profile thing is nice, one for gaming, one for the night doing WCG or similar. I still prefer Linux, all-core clock, I’m not a gamer


----------



## Nordic (Jun 25, 2022)

mstenholm said:


> I know that you care about the efficiency, saw the table, and I was’t rubbing your nose in the high voltage. I was curious. Yes the profile thing is nice, one for gaming, one for the night doing WCG or similar. I still prefer Linux, all-core clock, I’m not a gamer


I.... was crunching all winter at 155w . That wasn't very efficient at all. I do care about knowing the efficient settings. For a 5950x, the stock settings are the sweet spot. Playing with the curve optimizer can net some single threaded performance but not a lot. If all I ever did was crunching I would probably pursue an all-core overclock as well.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 26, 2022)

Ooh!

Found someone comparing all the Zen generations on the one platform directly, and it genuinely matches the user experience i had upgrading each generation - that ~100FPS jumping to ~120FPS to ~140FPS each generation, then to zen 3 blowing it to the moon (When not GPU limited, obviously)

But overall, Zen 1 (once the AGESA matured) just... doesnt suck?
Unless you game over 120Hz, CPU's really dont need to be upgraded often.
(Thanks 165hz display. This is your fault.)

These were all ran at DDR4 2933, Dual rank (2x16GB) (And i think this is a key that was missed in early zen, four ranks helps more than we knew)



Ryzen 7 5800X3D review: Showing how far AMD's Ryzen has come | PCWorld

That said, even if you are on 165Hz... just get a 5600x and be happy 
Even with a 3090, so many games simply can't run high FPS, it's not a given.


******Merged posts, new one below************
Found someone with the same ram modules as me on reddit and some random google doc, except he's got the 4000Mhz kit

He's a way better OC'er and filled in some blanks:

Summary, keep ram under 50C, 1.4V or under.
18-22-22-42 - it doesnt like those tightened.

tRC=62
tFAW=16
tWR=16
TRFC=520 704 (His number was a flop on mine)

tested all of that and confirmed it, except with those first three tightened i'm adjusting TRFC from my 702 to his 520, to see what happens.

At present i'm seeing ~66ns latency in AIDA, with the CPU at 4850

Okay, seems this BIOS has some bugs after all - stuck with no boost past 4850, and no curve optimiser.

And... i spent 20 minutes unable to even power on the PC because it suddenly decided a USB caddy was a horrible danger or something. Just 1/4 a sec of power and *nothing* until the PSU had been disconnected

Others have detailed this bug better. Doesn't affect everyone, raising EDC above stock reduces clocks?
The AGESA 1.2.0.7 PBO bug combined with a 65W TDP processor is hilarious: My 5600X is effectively stuck at 90A EDC


Why i'm not fussed to be stuck at 4850 for a while: performance goes wee
And that L3 cache copy, i'm never getting a better result


----------



## Nordic (Jun 27, 2022)

To the surprise of no one, Ryzen Masters per core curve optimizer setting were remarkably unstable. I have returned to an all core CO of -10 because it has the same performance and better stability.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 28, 2022)

New chipset drivers out

X570 Drivers & Support | AMD


----------



## Ibizadr (Jun 28, 2022)

Mussels said:


> New chipset drivers out
> 
> X570 Drivers & Support | AMD
> 
> View attachment 252769


Do you try it mussels? Last time they update chipset it's bugged a lot in installation


----------



## Mussels (Jun 28, 2022)

Ibizadr said:


> Do you try it mussels? Last time they update chipset it's bugged a lot in installation


Yeah, no obvious changes or issues


----------



## eazen (Jun 29, 2022)

5800X3D really a beast, rly happy with it. Solved some of my issues in MW5, it has terrible cpu usage, and still bottlenecked but way less than with 3700X before. Ridiculously high fps in Valorant and CSGO. Can game and stream at same time over cpu too, no problem at all. Medium X264 as well, this thing ripps.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 30, 2022)

eazen said:


> 5800X3D really a beast, rly happy with it. Solved some of my issues in MW5, it has terrible cpu usage, and still bottlenecked but way less than with 3700X before. Ridiculously high fps in Valorant and CSGO. Can game and stream at same time over cpu too, no problem at all. Medium X264 as well, this thing ripps.


Oh yeah, the difference from Zen2 to Zen 3 was huge with high end GPUs - the x3d just makes that even bigger


----------



## Chomiq (Jun 30, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Oh yeah, the difference from Zen2 to Zen 3 was huge with high end GPUs - the x3d just makes that even bigger


Too bad it costs nearly double of what I paid for my 5800X.


----------



## Calmmo (Jun 30, 2022)

Well there's always that rumor about zen4 + old io chip for AM4


----------



## eazen (Jun 30, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> Too bad it costs nearly double of what I paid for my 5800X.


Its okay because I used it as a 2 generational upgrade, so I think the pricing is fine to me. Otherwise would’ve bought a 5950X anyway, so it doesn’t matter much.


----------



## Polyh3dron (Jul 1, 2022)

Hi all,

First post in this forum here. I have a Ryzen 5950X CPU I got around its launch date that is in an Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero mobo with a RTX 3090 FE GPU, 64GB DDR4-3600 RAM, Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro 1200W PSU and it's watercooled in an O11D XL case with two 360mm rads. BIOS, chipset, everything elsedriver wise is all up to date with W11. My USB Selective Suspend option has been disabled in all power plans.

I am still getting random USB dropouts from ALL of my USB devices. My keyboard stops working sometimes and needs a replug. My Stream Deck XL crashes to its logo requiring a quit and reopen of the app. My USB audio interface has dropouts while using virtual input/output through Voicemeeter is rock solid.

In my BIOS, I have PBO active. I have all my load line level stuff set to 3. I have my SOC voltage set to 1.2V. Are there any other voltage settings I can look at to stop this from being an issue?


----------



## eazen (Jul 1, 2022)

Polyh3dron said:


> Hi all,
> 
> First post in this forum here. I have a Ryzen 5950X CPU I got around its launch date that is in an Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero mobo with a RTX 3090 FE GPU, 64GB DDR4-3600 RAM, Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro 1200W PSU and it's watercooled in an O11D XL case with two 360mm rads. BIOS, chipset, everything elsedriver wise is all up to date with W11. My USB Selective Suspend option has been disabled in all power plans.
> 
> ...


Just do a bios update, it should be fixed then. It was specifically addressed there.


----------



## Polyh3dron (Jul 2, 2022)

eazen said:


> Just do a bios update, it should be fixed then. It was specifically addressed there.


I did mention in my post that my BIOS was already up to date as well as everything else. I'm currently at 4201, which was released on April 29th of this year. My chipset drivers are current as of a few days ago. I also mentioned the troubleshooting steps I have already taken. I'm asking what my next step should be after taking all the steps I have already outlined including the one you recommended. I'm beginning to think it is a flaw in my CPU that can be compensated for by bumping up some voltages but I'm not sure which ones.

I am aware that AMD has supposedly done a number of AGESA updates specifically to address this issue, but it has not addressed it for me. Here's my current ZenTimings screenshot:


----------



## eazen (Jul 2, 2022)

Polyh3dron said:


> I did mention in my post that my BIOS was already up to date as well as everything else. I'm currently at 4201, which was released on April 29th of this year. My chipset drivers are current as of a few days ago. I also mentioned the troubleshooting steps I have already taken. I'm asking what my next step should be after taking all the steps I have already outlined including the one you recommended. I'm beginning to think it is a flaw in my CPU that can be compensated for by bumping up some voltages but I'm not sure which ones.
> 
> I am aware thatAMD has supposedly done a number of AGESA updates specifically to address this issue, but it has not addressed it for me. Here's my current ZenTimings screenshot:


Then I’m sorry, seems I overlooked it. Which Agesa is the newest bios using?


----------



## Mussels (Jul 3, 2022)

Polyh3dron said:


> I did mention in my post that my BIOS was already up to date as well as everything else. I'm currently at 4201, which was released on April 29th of this year. My chipset drivers are current as of a few days ago. I also mentioned the troubleshooting steps I have already taken. I'm asking what my next step should be after taking all the steps I have already outlined including the one you recommended. I'm beginning to think it is a flaw in my CPU that can be compensated for by bumping up some voltages but I'm not sure which ones.
> 
> I am aware that AMD has supposedly done a number of AGESA updates specifically to address this issue, but it has not addressed it for me. Here's my current ZenTimings screenshot:


you do know that above 3200 is overclocking and not officially supported, yeah?

There is zero guarantees of high memory clock speeds on default settings above two sticks of single rank RAM at 3200, anythinig above that is overclocking and may require tweaking or lowering clocks.
You're at 3600 with dual ranks just like i am, which is way above what these CPU's were officially rated to do.

(As to why the BOARDS support the higher speeds, because the APU models can clock RAM that high)


----------



## Polyh3dron (Jul 3, 2022)

Mussels said:


> you do know that above 3200 is overclocking and not officially supported, yeah?
> 
> There is zero guarantees of high memory clock speeds on default settings above two sticks of single rank RAM at 3200, anythinig above that is overclocking and may require tweaking or lowering clocks.
> You're at 3600 with dual ranks just like i am, which is way above what these CPU's were officially rated to do.
> ...


Official statements from AMD reps said the "sweet spot" for Zen 3 ram (and Zen 2 for that matter) was 3600MHz. We could split hairs about whether any non-JEDEC RAM speeds should be guaranteed or not... but I'd much rather find out if there are any known simple settings in my BIOS that I could bump up in order to make my USB stability better.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 4, 2022)

Polyh3dron said:


> Official statements from AMD reps said the "sweet spot" for Zen 3 ram (and Zen 2 for that matter) was 3600MHz. We could split hairs about whether any non-JEDEC RAM speeds should be guaranteed or not... but I'd much rather find out if there are any known simple settings in my BIOS that I could bump up in order to make my USB stability better.


That is the performance sweet spot when overclocking, NOT a factory supported speed!

USB stability is tied right into PCI-E and DRAM stability - make sure you're actually stable with your RAM settings, and dont use PCI-E risers


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## Polyh3dron (Jul 4, 2022)

Mussels said:


> That is the performance sweet spot when overclocking, NOT a factory supported speed!
> 
> USB stability is tied right into PCI-E and DRAM stability - make sure you're actually stable with your RAM settings, and dont use PCI-E risers


I passed the Karhu test for an hour. This is good info though, I'm going to try giving both my DRAM and SOC voltages a modest bump to see if that helps any. Thanks!


----------



## Kissamies (Jul 15, 2022)

Just wondering that as I have PBO +200 enabled, can I rise my max TDP to 95 or even 105 watts? If that doesn't help that much, I may as well try 65W TDP..


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## Chomiq (Jul 19, 2022)

My college from work is troubleshooting a PC from the local uni. Some idiot cheapened out and bought memory that wasn't on the QVL - PNY, Ubuntu is acting weirdly, Chrome takes 2 min to launch etc. No wonder:





So, a 5950X, X570S Elite, 3090 (!) and some shitty 3200 RAM from PNY. Mobo can't even read the XMP from this POS, it defaults to 2666.

Told him to set the primary timings to what should be xmp, set speed to 3200, VDIMM to 1.35V, adjust VSOC to 1.1V and verify if infinity fabric is running at 1600. Or just go and tell them to change ram to something that's on Gigabyte's QVL.


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## Mussels (Jul 19, 2022)

Looks like four 16GB sticks, so they're running 8 ranks

That'll be fun to get working for beginners, but raising VSOC before enabling XMP should do it


----------



## Chomiq (Jul 19, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Looks like four 16GB sticks, so they're running 8 ranks
> 
> That'll be fun to get working for beginners, but raising VSOC before enabling XMP should do it


Yup, 4 sticks.


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## The King (Jul 19, 2022)

Polyh3dron said:


> Official statements from AMD reps said the "sweet spot" for Zen 3 ram (and Zen 2 for that matter) was 3600MHz. We could split hairs about whether any non-JEDEC RAM speeds should be guaranteed or not... but I'd much rather find out if there are any known simple settings in my BIOS that I could bump up in order to make my USB stability better.


You have to look at 3 different voltages for the USB issues which maybe related to FCLK drop out.
SOC/IOD/CCD you have to find the settings that is not to high or too low.

Both too high or low voltages can cause USB issues.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 19, 2022)

Lenne said:


> Just wondering that as I have PBO +200 enabled, can I rise my max TDP to 95 or even 105 watts? If that doesn't help that much, I may as well try 65W TDP..



What exactly doesn't it "help" much? Those are two not really related things.

+200 applies mostly to single thread (unless somehow you're getting 4.4GHz all core out of a 3600), and only if you're lucky enough to hit 4.4.

Power limit applies mostly to all core, because single thread is only like 30-50W max.

Your TDP is already 65W, it's PPT that's 88W. You can set PPT as high as you want, doesn't mean it'll go that high. On PBO (not manual OC), single CCD Zen 2 completely maxes out at like 110W, and you don't gain that much compared to stock.


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## Kissamies (Jul 19, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> What exactly doesn't it "help" much? Those are two not really related things.
> 
> +200 applies mostly to single thread (unless somehow you're getting 4.4GHz all core out of a 3600), and only if you're lucky enough to hit 4.4.
> 
> ...


Alright, you said it clearly, thanks.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jul 19, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> My college from work is troubleshooting a PC from the local uni. Some idiot cheapened out and bought memory that wasn't on the QVL - PNY, Ubuntu is acting weirdly, Chrome takes 2 min to launch etc. No wonder:
> 
> So, a 5950X, X570S Elite, 3090 (!) and some shitty 3200 RAM from PNY. Mobo can't even read the XMP from this POS, it defaults to 2666.
> 
> Told him to set the primary timings to what should be xmp, set speed to 3200, VDIMM to 1.35V, adjust VSOC to 1.1V and verify if infinity fabric is running at 1600. Or just go and tell them to change ram to something that's on Gigabyte's QVL.



Kinda sounds like man just doesn't know how to take care of his computer and there's probably a host of other things going on there. I don't think I've ever seen noticeable slowdowns on any OS because of running JEDEC 2133 - until I fire up a game, of course. Ryzen 3000/5000 is good like that

Or maybe it's a Ubuntu thing. Been a hot minute since I last had LTS on 4650G and 5900X



Lenne said:


> Alright, you said it clearly, thanks.



Reading all this made me reminisce about losing the Ryzen silicon lottery 6 out of 6 times  

Set a bit of PBO or just leave at stock and enjoy life and the lower temps  you're not missing out! Don't let the benchmark score chasers fool you

4 tries later, I have learned my lesson about being an AMD early adopter


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## Chomiq (Jul 19, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Kinda sounds like man just doesn't know how to take care of his computer and there's probably a host of other things going on there. I don't think I've ever seen noticeable slowdowns on any OS because of running JEDEC 2133 - until I fire up a game, of course. Ryzen 3000/5000 is good like that
> 
> Or maybe it's a Ubuntu thing. Been a hot minute since I last had LTS on 4650G and 5900X


That's a machine that was purchased by the University through a tender, so the lowest offer won.




I doubt they even booted it before they delivered the system.


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## Mussels (Jul 20, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> That's a machine that was purchased by the University through a tender, so the lowest offer won.
> View attachment 255251
> 
> I doubt they even booted it before they delivered the system.


slap the cheapest parts together and let the user deal with it!


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## Chomiq (Jul 20, 2022)

Mussels said:


> slap the cheapest parts together and let the user deal with it!


And charge $4300 for it. Don't forgot the magic clause "System will be tested after delivery", lmfao.


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## RoyZ (Jul 21, 2022)

Hi everyone.

So, I got a R5 3600 on a b450 MSI motherboard, and I see that I have a couple options there on my motherboard that till today I haven't messed with yet: Precision Boost Overdrive, which was set to AUTO, now I set to ENABLE, and tried a few games. So far I did not see any difference. 
In games seeing through MSI AFTERBURNER my CPU boosts to around 4050, 4025, 4100, just as it did before with PBO set to AUTO.

Now I see there in the mobo another option called GAME BOOST. Anyone have tested? What exactly is that?

Also, if I try this "game boost", sould I set PBO back to auto, or can I leave both enabled?


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## Mussels (Jul 22, 2022)

RoyZ said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> So, I got a R5 3600 on a b450 MSI motherboard, and I see that I have a couple options there on my motherboard that till today I haven't messed with yet: Precision Boost Overdrive, which was set to AUTO, now I set to ENABLE, and tried a few games. So far I did not see any difference.
> In games seeing through MSI AFTERBURNER my CPU boosts to around 4050, 4025, 4100, just as it did before with PBO set to AUTO.
> ...


Dont use game boost


PBO lets your CPU boost higher if wattage is available and it's cool enough - but the 3600 is already very close to it's limits so it doesn't boost very hard. The setting helps more on higher end CPUs.


TPU's review of the 3600 found an entire 0.3% boost with PBO enabled
AMD Ryzen 5 3600 Review - Game Tests 720p | TechPowerUp

Game boost sounds like one of those terrible auto-overclock features that cranks voltages up and overheats everything

Edit: yes, that's what it is. Don't use it.


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## freeagent (Jul 22, 2022)

When I was using Zen 2 briefly, I found a static OC to be more satisfying than letting the CPU boost on its own. I had a 3600XT and I just ran it at 4400-4500 static.. I thought its boost algorithm was not very good.


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## LifeOnMars (Jul 22, 2022)

freeagent said:


> When I was using Zen 2 briefly, I found a static OC to be more satisfying than letting the CPU boost on its own. I had a 3600XT and I just ran it at 4400-4500 static.. I thought its boost algorithm was not very good.


I agree, on my old 3600, which was an early release(bad clockers). I had it at 4.2 from the day I got it to the day I sold it. Performance was more consistent as the boost was not very well implemented. Good chip though when I had it paired with a 5700 XT and then a 3060 Ti.

On this 5700 now, I don't even care about it. Because I play at 4K I just run it on eco mode lol and performance is smooth as hell with the 3080 doing the vast majority of the heavy lifting


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## Mussels (Jul 23, 2022)

lower model ryzens of every gen typically benefited more from all core OC's

The less cores they had, the less heat you had to deal with - and they usually had a smaller boost range (unlike the 5800x which goes from 4.4 all core to 5.05 single core, with PBO on which is a large range to cover)


----------



## natr0n (Jul 24, 2022)

Do I have a golden chip perhaps ?


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## Polyh3dron (Jul 26, 2022)

The King said:


> You have to look at 3 different voltages for the USB issues which maybe related to FCLK drop out.
> SOC/IOD/CCD you have to find the settings that is not to high or too low.
> 
> Both too high or low voltages can cause USB issues.


Thank you! This is exactly the kind of answer I was looking for.


----------



## Chomiq (Jul 26, 2022)

natr0n said:


> Do I have a golden chip perhaps ?
> View attachment 255829


AIO doing its job.


----------



## RoyZ (Jul 28, 2022)

So I finally decided to mess around with Ryzen Master on my R5 3600, and my first try was an 4.2 all core, at 1.25 V. Did some testing and it is stable so far.

Is this voltage ok? What would be the higher you guys would consider safe, in case I have to bump it up a bit? I hear some people saying that up to 1.35 is ok, some say it is too much.

I can try to lower it a bit too.

EDIT: I set the voltage to 1.2 now, and it seems to be OK. Temps have dropped to a max of 75C in stress test at 4.2 all core. I think this is fine.


----------



## jt94 (Aug 8, 2022)

RoyZ said:


> So I finally decided to mess around with Ryzen Master on my R5 3600, and my first try was an 4.2 all core, at 1.25 V. Did some testing and it is stable so far.
> 
> Is this voltage ok? What would be the higher you guys would consider safe, in case I have to bump it up a bit? I hear some people saying that up to 1.35 is ok, some say it is too much.
> 
> ...


1.25 is perfectly safe. 1.35 would degrade, although probably so minimally it doesn't matter. I ran my 3900x at 1.4v for over 2 years before I sold it. Didn't degrade at all. However, I would not recommend running it at anything higher than 1.325v if you want it to run it daily for years.

Heat also plays a part. If you are at 75c @ 1.2v, you shouldn't go much further. You will end up pumping more volts, increasing the temp which in turn makes that overclock unstable. It's counterintuitive.

Hope this helps.


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## RoyZ (Aug 8, 2022)

jt94 said:


> 1.25 is perfectly safe. 1.35 would degrade, although probably so minimally it doesn't matter. I ran my 3900x at 1.4v for over 2 years before I sold it. Didn't degrade at all. However, I would not recommend running it at anything higher than 1.325v if you want it to run it daily for years.


Thats great to hear. If I ever need to bump it up a bit, I got room then.



jt94 said:


> Heat also plays a part. If you are at 75c @ 1.2v, you shouldn't go much further. You will end up pumping more volts, increasing the temp which in turn makes that overclock unstable. It's counterintuitive.


Yeah the 75c was during stress test. In my daily use with this settings (4.2mhz at 1.2V) the max temp I ever saw was 52c, which is when I play a heavy game, and gaming is the most demanding thing I do in this PC.


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## P4-630 (Aug 11, 2022)

Just leaving this here:









						New Vulnerability Affects All AMD Zen CPUs: Threading May Need to Be Disabled
					

Side-channel SQUIP vulnerability affects all SMT-enabled Zen CPUs.




					www.tomshardware.com


----------



## Mussels (Aug 12, 2022)

Requires local access - so with an antivirus, we're fine.
Edit: and requires the process to be locked to a specific corem, with the target of the attack locked on that cores SMT thread

So uh, we're fine.






Oh no my RSA keys





This might be an issue for servers and mission critical systems, but 99% of people it's meaningless


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 12, 2022)

Looks like the latest chipset drivers (4.06.10.651) somehow affected CO stability. It's the second time within a week that I ran into a WHEA-18 error with processor core fail when basically idling with my so far rock solid -15 all core:



Disabling CO switching to -10 for now, going to see how it behaves.


----------



## dont whant to set it"' (Aug 18, 2022)

Wow!, that stock auto vcore with new firmware. Dialed 40x , core performance boost to off, vcore set to 1.1V, SMT off and quickly save settings.
I will edge out previous settings back in the ballpark throughout the day.


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 18, 2022)

dont whant to set it' said:


> Wow!, that stock auto vcore with new firmware. Dialed 40x , core performance boost to off, vcore set to 1.1V, SMT off and quickly save settings.
> I will edge out previous settings back in the ballpark throughout the day.


Memory at 2133?


----------



## dont whant to set it"' (Aug 18, 2022)

Yes, I initiated the motherboard EZ-Flash( or what is called) and went out for a quick fag.
When I returned and observed the vcore value on , I just set the previous posted setting and let it run into Windows where I ran an Aida cache/mem bench at stock setting(well, all the other settings).
And yes , as it still runs the cpu-z stress test while writing this , my rig is using ~106Watts from wall.
Le: jedec SPD.


----------



## INSTG8R (Aug 18, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> Looks like the latest chipset drivers (4.06.10.651) somehow affected CO stability. It's the second time within a week that I ran into a WHEA-18 error with processor core fail when basically idling with my so far rock solid -15 all core:
> View attachment 257859
> Disabling CO switching to -10 for now, going to see how it behaves.


Okay well I just installed them(I was in Canada for June and most of July) I run my CO at -18? and have my PB0 running 4850 all core. My PC is on 24/7 so this might get exciting....


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## Chomiq (Aug 18, 2022)

INSTG8R said:


> Okay well I just installed them(I was in Canada for June and most of July) I run my CO at -18? and have my PB0 running 4850 all core. My PC is on 24/7 so this might get exciting....


I rolled back to 4.03.something from march and returned to -15 on CO. Maybe newer drivers didn't like the old agesa 1.2.0.3 B (waiting for some non-beta bios with 1.2.0.7+).


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## INSTG8R (Aug 18, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> I rolled back to 4.03.something from march and returned to -15 on CO. Maybe newer drivers didn't like the old agesa 1.2.0.3 B (waiting for some non-beta bios with 1.2.0.7+).


Yeah I’m on the Beta BIOS as well but I’ve been using the same BIOS settings pretty much since I finished the build and found my ideal settings. 
Will be interesting to see if my 100% stable settings that have never failed me on every BIOS released so far might actually require some tweaking…fingers crossed…


----------



## P4-630 (Aug 21, 2022)

Ryzen 7000 isn't ready yet.









						Ryzen-7000-Verschiebung: AGESA-Version scheint noch nicht gereift zu sein - Hardwareluxx
					

Als Grund für die mögliche Verschiebung des Ryzen-7000-Launches könnte das noch nicht ausgereifte AGESA sein.




					www.hardwareluxx.de


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## outpt (Aug 22, 2022)

that's great can't get it out of the gate or is amd/intel going to play chicken at this point.


----------



## A Computer Guy (Aug 22, 2022)

Calmmo said:


> Well there's always that rumor about zen4 + old io chip for AM4


I would be interesting if AMD brought back Overdrive CPU's.   Imagine plugging in 7000 series chip in a 6 yr old AM4 platform.


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 22, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> I rolled back to 4.03.something from march and returned to -15 on CO. Maybe newer drivers didn't like the old agesa 1.2.0.3 B (waiting for some non-beta bios with 1.2.0.7+).


Well it turned out to be CO instability. Opted for -10 on all but gold and silver cores which I set to -15. Updated to 1.2.0.7 and latest chipset drivers. It ain't that easy to troubleshoot mainly because it happens at super low load instead of gaming and if it did it happened maybe 1 time over the course of entire week.


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## The King (Sep 9, 2022)

Ryzen 5 5600 5.8GHz!!! 


R


----------



## Mussels (Sep 11, 2022)

125MHz BCLK makes many things possible

and unstable


----------



## RoyZ (Sep 30, 2022)

When you are setting a OC on ryzen master, can you set an higher clock on the "better cores" and leave the rest on a lower all core setting? Lets say, I have a R5 3600, and ryzen master shows me 2 out of my 6 cores as my "better cores". Can you set lets say 4.3 on the two better cores and 4.2 on the rest as a permanent OC? Is this a thing?  

And if so, when your PC is doing single core task, will it always go for these "better" cores that you OCed a little higher?


----------



## Mussels (Sep 30, 2022)

RoyZ said:


> When you are setting a OC on ryzen master, can you set an higher clock on the "better cores" and leave the rest on a lower all core setting? Lets say, I have a R5 3600, and ryzen master shows me 2 out of my 6 cores as my "better cores". Can you set lets say 4.3 on the two better cores and 4.2 on the rest as a permanent OC? Is this a thing?
> 
> And if so, when your PC is doing single core task, will it always go for these "better" cores that you OCed a little higher?


Windows 10 and 11 are aware of the preferred cores and use them first, yes.

You cant set per core clocks manually easily, that's what PBO does for you - the closest you'll get is the curve optimiser where it auto adjusts the voltages for you to maximise things for your particular setup


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 30, 2022)

RoyZ said:


> When you are setting a OC on ryzen master, can you set an higher clock on the "better cores" and leave the rest on a lower all core setting? Lets say, I have a R5 3600, and ryzen master shows me 2 out of my 6 cores as my "better cores". Can you set lets say 4.3 on the two better cores and 4.2 on the rest as a permanent OC? Is this a thing?
> 
> And if so, when your PC is doing single core task, will it always go for these "better" cores that you OCed a little higher?



On Ryzen 3000 you don't have access to Curve Optimizer, so you can't vary clocks by core. You can still set per-CCX OC if your CPU is up for it. But that's still in fixed groups of 4 cores.

The "better" cores relies partly on AMD's CPPC hierarchy (unique order programmed into every CPU) and partly on the Windows scheduler. Generally all Ryzen CPUs will rank all their cores, but only 2 cores are singled out for single thread tasks (highest ranked 2 cores in CPPC).

The core preference only follows CPPC/Windows order. It doesn't matter if you single out two better cores - unless those two cores also happen to be the top 2 cores in CPPC/Windows, they won't get used. You can disable CPPC Preferred Cores in BIOS, but in my experience it changes little - Windows still maintains its own core quality hierarchy.

On my 5900X, Cores 0 and 1 are top rated, but after Curve Optimizer Core 2 by far outstrips every other core in clock. Unfortunately, being rated #3, it will never be used for ST work regardless of how much better it is.

Perhaps at some point in the future we will be able to edit CPPC or Windows core rankings.


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## Mussels (Sep 30, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Perhaps at some point in the future we will be able to edit CPPC or Windows core rankings.


I swear i've seen the ability to mess with that mentioned somewhere, it might have been linux or zen master



Chipset driver alters how CPCC works, so make sure that's installed? Ryzen 3000 needed the power plan on balanced/ryzen balanced to work perfectly, 5000 seems fine on whatever


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## Chomiq (Oct 2, 2022)

Buldzoid on 7950x's power/perf scaling.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 2, 2022)

Confirming my worst fears - this X3D's Fabric can't do 1900, as I thought there's no reason the board can't train 3800 Bdie when it's done it every day for a year

Which makes it in that respect the worst CPU I've had, even worse than the 3700X

Heralding in a new age of Ryzen I guess where AMD wants us to forget about Fabric. Whatever, I'm not returning this CPU just for that, it works great

time to go sell the 5900X


----------



## QuietBob (Oct 2, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Confirming my worst fears - this X3D's Fabric can't do 1900, as I thought there's no reason the board can't train 3800 Bdie when it's done it every day for a year
> 
> Which makes it in that respect the worst CPU I've had, even worse than the 3700X
> 
> ...


What about single rank?


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 2, 2022)

QuietBob said:


> What about single rank?



Only free set I have lying around are the 4000CL19 Rev.E - too much a hassle to swap RAM on my daily because of the dual-fan C14S. I haven't used the Ballistix in anything since I got the 5700G RMA done, too slow compared to B-die

The RAM works fine. I can set my usual 3800CL14 profile as long as I leave FCLK on auto. Fabric can't keep up.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 3, 2022)

I may consider selling my 5900X too lol.. the IHS took a beating with probably a hundred mounts lol.. maybe not that much.. probably won’t be able to get much more than 400 for it, half of what I paid  

X3D idles so nice at the desktop, like 60w with the lights off 





The backside of the case is getting low on cable space.. good thing you can use a thumbscrew to keep the panel from popping off 

It’s loud when it does


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## RoyZ (Oct 3, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> On Ryzen 3000 you don't have access to Curve Optimizer, so you can't vary clocks by core. You can still set per-CCX OC if your CPU is up for it. But that's still in fixed groups of 4 cores.
> 
> The "better" cores relies partly on AMD's CPPC hierarchy (unique order programmed into every CPU) and partly on the Windows scheduler. Generally all Ryzen CPUs will rank all their cores, but only 2 cores are singled out for single thread tasks (highest ranked 2 cores in CPPC).
> 
> ...


I see. I'll just keep doing the "all cores" OCs then on my 3600.
I'm using an all core at 4.2 and 1.2 volt right now. I'm gonna try 4.3.

What happens if you go too far for your CPU? The PC shuts down? Can you perma damage it even if you are just messing with core clocks and voltage in ryzen master?
I'm new to this so I hesitate.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 3, 2022)

RoyZ said:


> I see. I'll just keep doing the "all cores" OCs then on my 3600.
> I'm using an all core at 4.2 and 1.2 volt right now. I'm gonna try 4.3.
> 
> What happens if you go too far for your CPU? The PC shuts down? Can you perma damage it even if you are just messing with core clocks and voltage in ryzen master?
> I'm new to this so I hesitate.



Ryzen Master does not guarantee safety, that program is perenially buggy as shit. Not even PBO is always, 100% safe long term, ie. the Zen 2 EDC trick.

If you're set on doing all-core, just try to stay below say 1.25V and keep thermals under control. Ryzen degrades primarily with current (ie. power), so don't be benching all-core 24/7. Higher temps and/or higher volts accelerate that process.

Can't really tell you if or when you'll see degradation. You'll get all sorts of answers depending on who yku ask.

You may find some benefits to running all-core (e.g. better frame consistency), but I wouldn't worry about pushing a 3600 further. Clocks don't commonly help Ryzen much outside of MT work, it's the arch improvements in each generation that do most of the heavy lifting.

The shutdowns should only really come when you're running unstable. Stock operation has thermal protections, but when you all-core OC there are no more protections


----------



## RoyZ (Oct 3, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Ryzen Master does not guarantee safety, that program is perenially buggy as shit. Not even PBO is always, 100% safe long term, ie. the Zen 2 EDC trick.
> 
> If you're set on doing all-core, just try to stay below say 1.25V and keep thermals under control. Ryzen degrades primarily with current (ie. power), so don't be benching all-core 24/7. Higher temps and/or higher volts accelerate that process.


Nah it is not for benching. I use this PC for gaming. With my current 4.2 all core on 1.2V, I sit at max 50°C playing games.
Only bench I ever do is a couple cinebench runs when I set a new OC profile to test it, and that forces the CPU way harder than any game I play.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 3, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Confirming my worst fears - this X3D's Fabric can't do 1900, as I thought there's no reason the board can't train 3800 Bdie when it's done it every day for a year
> 
> Which makes it in that respect the worst CPU I've had, even worse than the 3700X
> 
> ...


I'm sure you'll find whatever timings need changing in time


What do you mean by memory training anyway, I've never seen someone explain what they meant by the term - I've seen people claim some weird things about how their system takes X minutes to boot and "train" the memory, but in reality they just had 3-5 failed boots and the system would then POST at system defaults, so the BIOS could be set to DDR 4000, but it was running at 2133 in reality (and i've ran into multiple people who think that's memory training, when it's just failed boots)


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## tabascosauz (Oct 3, 2022)

Mussels said:


> I'm sure you'll find whatever timings need changing in time
> 
> What do you mean by memory training anyway, I've never seen someone explain what they meant by the term - I've seen people claim some weird things about how their system takes X minutes to boot and "train" the memory, but in reality they just had 3-5 failed boots and the system would then POST at system defaults, so the BIOS could be set to DDR 4000, but it was running at 2133 in reality (and i've ran into multiple people who think that's memory training, when it's just failed boots)



I can run my usual 3800 timings just fine at unsync FCLK. When FCLK is set to 1900MHz it just throws a 07 code. Nothing that I can do changes that. More VDIMM, more VDDGs, more VDDG, procODT, PLL, nothing changes 07. Only thing I haven't tried is cadbus settings, might try tonight.

It's just another word for the board doing initialization/testing/whatever of memory on bootup. If it's rebooting more than 2 times and reverting to JEDEC then mem training didn't succeed and board auto-recovered. I have seen often boards needing 1 reboot to properly train, but I have seen only once or twice board needing 2 reboots to properly train.

07 is generally memory related so I was trying to figure out what exactly was going on. Either the board suddenly didn't know how to deal with my usual 3800CL14 profile (now we know that's not true), the 5800X3D is just built different and Asus doesn't understand (unlikely), or the Fabric is a dud on this one (likely). We're at the end of AGESA for AM4 anyway, so probably nothing will change. There is only 1 usable BIOS (4006).


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## The King (Oct 3, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> I can run my usual 3800 timings just fine at unsync FCLK. When FCLK is set to 1900MHz it just throws a 07 code. Nothing that I can do changes that. More VDIMM, more VDDGs, more VDDG, procODT, PLL, nothing changes 07. Only thing I haven't tried is cadbus settings, might try tonight.
> 
> It's just another word for the board doing initialization/testing/whatever of memory on bootup. If it's rebooting more than 2 times and reverting to JEDEC then mem training didn't succeed and board auto-recovered. I have seen often boards needing 1 reboot to properly train, but I have seen only once or twice board needing 2 reboots to properly train.
> 
> 07 is generally memory related so I was trying to figure out what exactly was going on. Either the board suddenly didn't know how to deal with my usual 3800CL14 profile (now we know that's not true), the 5800X3D is just built different and Asus doesn't understand (unlikely), or the Fabric is a dud on this one (likely). We're at the end of AGESA for AM4 anyway, so probably nothing will change. There is only 1 usable BIOS (4006).


Something for you guys to try with 5800X3D and FCLK 1900 issues.

I have a very weird issue were my board needs to train 4 or 5 times before it boots FCLK 1900 with 4 DIMMS. The amount of retries can be set in the BIOS max on my board is 5 retries.
Many times after a failed retry cycle. Just going into the BIOS selecting save and reboot without making any chances gets the system to boot. This happens a lot.

I recently notice dropping my CPU voltage to -0.0500V offset actually made the board train faster usually 2-3 training cycles and it then boots. Some of the guys on another forum were shocked that this was happening.

Anywoo give it a try slight drop or slight increase/offset in CPU voltage and see if FCLK 1900 boots or not.

I only have this issue with my 5800X my 5600 does not have this problem on the same board with 4 DIMMS it boots FCLK 1900 with no problems.

On another note Micron REV .E DIMMS should be much easier on the IMC to boot, it may even boot higher the FCLK 1900. Won't know unless you try it @freeagent


----------



## Mussels (Oct 3, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> I can run my usual 3800 timings just fine at unsync FCLK. When FCLK is set to 1900MHz it just throws a 07 code. Nothing that I can do changes that. More VDIMM, more VDDGs, more VDDG, procODT, PLL, nothing changes 07. Only thing I haven't tried is cadbus settings, might try tonight.
> 
> It's just another word for the board doing initialization/testing/whatever of memory on bootup. If it's rebooting more than 2 times and reverting to JEDEC then mem training didn't succeed and board auto-recovered. I have seen often boards needing 1 reboot to properly train, but I have seen only once or twice board needing 2 reboots to properly train.
> 
> 07 is generally memory related so I was trying to figure out what exactly was going on. Either the board suddenly didn't know how to deal with my usual 3800CL14 profile (now we know that's not true), the 5800X3D is just built different and Asus doesn't understand (unlikely), or the Fabric is a dud on this one (likely). We're at the end of AGESA for AM4 anyway, so probably nothing will change. There is only 1 usable BIOS (4006).


That's a cold boot, when it has to scan for hardware. Such as when a PSU has been fully de-powered, or when RAM sticks are added or removed.
A warm boot is when it knows the hardware is there, so it skips certain steps.


It's like the old days when you'd watch a BIOS count every single KB of ram from a cold boot, but a second boot would skip to the total.

You can add/remove RAM with the PSU still connected or without it being drained, and that's why you see it sometimes and not others - same with a CMOS clear, mixing and matching the power/depowered state.

Memory training to my understanding should only happen from a true cold boot, where the system has lost power, relied on the CMOS battery and either had a CMOS reset or detected hardware has changed


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## tabascosauz (Oct 3, 2022)

The King said:


> Something for you guys to try with 5800X3D and FCLK 1900 issues.
> 
> I have a very weird issue were my board needs to train 4 or 5 times before it boots FCLK 1900 with 4 DIMMS. The amount of retries can be set in the BIOS max on my board is 5 retries.
> Many times after a failed retry cycle. Just going into the BIOS selecting save and reboot without making any chances gets the system to boot. This happens a lot.
> ...



No change with offset volts, I've been working -0.05V, -0.025V, +0.025V for the past week for ST perf. Have tried 1900 on every setting. Few things in my life are this consistent. Set 1900 Fabric, 07 code.

No retries either. Stuck on 07 until I power off. At this point I will just tighten my 3733CL14 profile instead.


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## The King (Oct 3, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> No change with offset volts, I've been working -0.05V, -0.025V, +0.025V for the past week for ST perf. Have tried 1900 on every setting. Few things in my life are this consistent. Set 1900 Fabric, 07 code.
> 
> No retries either. Stuck on 07 until I power off. At this point I will just tighten my 3733CL14 profile instead.


Apparently FCLK does not affect performance on the 5800X3D like other CPUs. So 3733 or even 3600 should not lose you any gaming performance.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 3, 2022)

1900 1:1 on 58X3D is like 1800 1:1 on other Zen 3, at least in Aida


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## Blaeza (Oct 3, 2022)

So I have a Ryzen 5 3600.  I'm getting a 32" LG GP850 1440p monitor at the end of this week. I unfortunately can't upgrade my MSI 1660 Super to a Gigabyte 6800XT until December (Birthday pressie this year).  How badly am I going to be bottlenecked??


----------



## HD64G (Oct 3, 2022)

Blaeza said:


> So I have a Ryzen 5 3600.  I'm getting a 32" LG GP850 1440p monitor at the end of this week. I unfortunately can't upgrade my MSI 1660 Super to a Gigabyte 6800XT until December (Birthday pressie this year).  How badly am I going to be bottlenecked??


Let's just say that you will have the performance of 6600XT mostly than not (if you ask if the 6800XT is going to be bottlenecked by the 3600).


----------



## Blaeza (Oct 3, 2022)

HD64G said:


> Let's just say that you will have the performance of 6600XT mostly than not (if you ask if the 6800XT is going to be bottlenecked by the 3600).


Even if I'm running games at 1440p?  Thought that the bottleneck would be more GPU in that instance.  Arse.  So now I've got to tell the Mrs I want a CPU too?


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## INSTG8R (Oct 3, 2022)

Still part of the Garden. Just made a few upgrades because of an "oops" So I have replaced my GB Auros Pro/5600X with an MSI X570S MAG Torpedo Max/5800X3D. I am planning to stay on AM4 for the next few years at least so I think I have gone with a great "final" AM4 setup that should last me until at least until AM5 matures.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 3, 2022)

Yup just waiting for AM5 to mature a little too. I only jumped on to AM4 like 2 years ago, so hearing what people say about X370 has made me wary of first gen AMD stuff.

So in the meantime, 5900X is on the shelf, and X3D is alive, and surprisingly doing well.

I am actually considering mounting my Le Grand Macho RT to it for a passive cooling trial. I will just have the stock Fractal front fans running. It might be able to do it since it is rated for 90w passive, 320w with a fan. 7x 6mm pipes might not be enough though. That 320w rating is for oldschool Westmere style chips and up. It didn't do as well as FC140 with my 7nm chips.


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## HD64G (Oct 3, 2022)

Blaeza said:


> Even if I'm running games at 1440p?  Thought that the bottleneck would be more GPU in that instance.  Arse.  So now I've got to tell the Mrs I want a CPU too?


I would get the best I could first and wait till the chance to get another component later on. So, 6800XT firstly and whatever CPU able to get afterwards. The 5800X3D used might be a great one in 2023.


----------



## Ibizadr (Oct 3, 2022)

Any advice to ram works at gear 1? My 3800 cl14 runs great and latency was nice too, but I want to try gear1. If I choose gear1 it doesn't boot and need a clear cmos to start. Any magic trick can bypass that?


----------



## freeagent (Oct 3, 2022)

1933 seems ok with 4 sticks for now 

Next step up might be a bit tougher


----------



## The King (Oct 3, 2022)

Ibizadr said:


> Any advice to ram works at gear 1? My 3800 cl14 runs great and latency was nice too, but I want to try gear1. If I choose gear1 it doesn't boot and need a clear cmos to start. Any magic trick can bypass that?


Post Zentimings. I can take a look.

Keep in mind that if you go from 2T to 1T you need to increase voltages most of the time for 1T to be stable or even boot.


----------



## Ibizadr (Oct 3, 2022)

The King said:


> Post Zentimings. I can take a look.
> 
> Keep in mind that if you go from 2T to 1T you need to increase voltages most of the time for 1T to be stable or even boot.






Vddp=0.9
Ccd=0.925
Iod=0.95

Ram stickers with a fan attached


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## The King (Oct 3, 2022)

Ibizadr said:


> View attachment 264099
> 
> Vddp=0.9
> Ccd=0.925
> ...


I had to take my B-Die to 1.55V to be stable at 3800 CL14 1T. Here are the settings I used. ClkDrvStr 40 and you may need to add AddrCmdSetup 56 if
you get a bluescreen going into windows. RDWR can go to 7.


----------



## Psychoholic (Oct 3, 2022)

WIsh me luck..  I usually dont buy new gen stuff this soon, but my alderlake rig didnt give me any issues early on.

Asus X670E-E and 7950x.
The DDR5-5600 was free (microcenter is running a deal where you get free memory with Zen4)
I will probably use some DDR5-6000 i have on hand though.


----------



## stinger608 (Oct 3, 2022)

Psychoholic said:


> Asus X670E-E and 7950x.
> The DDR5-5600



Awesome man!!!! Let us all know what you think when you get it up and running.


----------



## Kursah (Oct 3, 2022)

Just picked up a 5800X and 32GB Team Group DDR4 4000 last week to upgrade my old Ryzen rig. My current memory kit was failing, needed replaced. I saw the 5800X on sale for $250 @ Amazon and Newegg, figured at that price, that's near what most folks charge used, I'd snag one. I haven't done any tweaking yet, other than getting the memory to boot at 3600. No dice at 4000. Its not a high performance kit so I don't expect miracles. But I may need some help at some point in tuning this stuff. 

I do gotta say my system is snappier and so much more stable with the new goods. I kept my X370 board, which has been great so far. I know none of this is the latest and greatest, but I've been on Ryzen for years now...very nice to go from a 2700X to 5800X with nothing more than swapping them out. I kept up on EFI updates. My Noctua U14S seems to do a decent job keeping this CPU cool, though not as effective as the 2700X or Intel 4790K before it. Good enough for my needs as a parent on a budget.


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## Mussels (Oct 4, 2022)

Blaeza said:


> So I have a Ryzen 5 3600.  I'm getting a 32" LG GP850 1440p monitor at the end of this week. I unfortunately can't upgrade my MSI 1660 Super to a Gigabyte 6800XT until December (Birthday pressie this year).  How badly am I going to be bottlenecked??


If you swirl the bottle around so it forms a vortex, air can flow in allowing you to chug the beer get the frames out faster

You'll be bottlenecked to
*checks notes*
the performance of a 1660 super at 1440p

Simply turn some settings down until you're happy.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 4, 2022)

Blaeza said:


> So I have a Ryzen 5 3600.  I'm getting a 32" LG GP850 1440p monitor at the end of this week. I unfortunately can't upgrade my MSI 1660 Super to a Gigabyte 6800XT until December (Birthday pressie this year).  How badly am I going to be bottlenecked??



Congrats! Nice monitor. I just made the jump to 32" not too long ago.

You'll be fine. I spent couple years at 1440p and 4K with a i7-4790K and GTX 1070 (which the 1660 Super basically is). Just have to temper your expectations a bit in newer games and turn some settings down. I didn't have a high refresh monitor, so it'll be even easier for you since you'll have a Freesync range of what, 40-165Hz? As long as you can meet 40fps to trigger VRR. 

Plus, so many games have built-in resolution scalers so you can just drop the render resolution nicely like that without it looking terrible. Unlike me back in the day having to do straight 1080p or 1440p @ 4K 



Kursah said:


> Just picked up a 5800X and 32GB Team Group DDR4 4000 last week to upgrade my old Ryzen rig. My current memory kit was failing, needed replaced. I saw the 5800X on sale for $250 @ Amazon and Newegg, figured at that price, that's near what most folks charge used, I'd snag one. I haven't done any tweaking yet, other than getting the memory to boot at 3600. No dice at 4000. Its not a high performance kit so I don't expect miracles. But I may need some help at some point in tuning this stuff.
> 
> I do gotta say my system is snappier and so much more stable with the new goods. I kept my X370 board, which has been great so far. I know none of this is the latest and greatest, but I've been on Ryzen for years now...very nice to go from a 2700X to 5800X with nothing more than swapping them out. I kept up on EFI updates. My Noctua U14S seems to do a decent job keeping this CPU cool, though not as effective as the 2700X or Intel 4790K before it. Good enough for my needs as a parent on a budget.



Now man's just missing a 4090 

You can definitely get 5800X down to 3700X levels of thermals (very comfortable for a U14S) with a bit of work on your power limits and some Curve Optimizer. Just gotta put in a little bit of time.


----------



## Psychoholic (Oct 4, 2022)

So far so good with the 7950X / X670E-E ..  this thing is HOT under full load which i knew after reading/watching reviews.

just over 38K in cinebench multi though.





The system turned out to be a bit unstable using my Trident T5 6000mhz memory.
Now using the G.skill Flare X5 5600mhz memory that was free from microcenter, its been rock solid so far.

...Picky Picky.


----------



## Ibizadr (Oct 4, 2022)

The King said:


> I had to take my B-Die to 1.55V to be stable at 3800 CL14 1T. Here are the settings I used. ClkDrvStr 40 and you may need to add AddrCmdSetup 56 if
> you get a bluescreen going into windows. RDWR can go to 7.
> 
> View attachment 264101


It boots but when tested with memtest5 1usmus config give me errors on 6 and 12. Rolling back to 2t since the performance in Aida didn't change


----------



## RoyZ (Oct 4, 2022)

I have a MSI B450 Gaming Plus motherboard, and I read it can take the 5000 ryzen CPUs with latest BIOS update.

So since I plan to stick with this system for some time still, I'll probably replace my 3600 with a 5000 series. 
Here where I live is not easy getting a good deal on a 5800X3D, so I'm probably gonna aim at a 5700X or a 5800X when I see a promo.

For gaming purposes only, you guys think it is worth going for the 5800X over the 5700X?

Also, the 5700X has a 65w base TDP right? So thats something to consider, since my mobo is not high end, VRMs might not be the best. Though when I bought it I did read that on that price line it actually has pretty decent VRMs, but I'm no expert.

Rest of my system is a RTX 2060 Super, 16 gb of 3000 RAM.


----------



## Kursah (Oct 5, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Congrats! Nice monitor. I just made the jump to 32" not too long ago.
> 
> You'll be fine. I spent couple years at 1440p and 4K with a i7-4790K and GTX 1070 (which the 1660 Super basically is). Just have to temper your expectations a bit in newer games and turn some settings down. I didn't have a high refresh monitor, so it'll be even easier for you since you'll have a Freesync range of what, 40-165Hz? As long as you can meet 40fps to trigger VRR.
> 
> ...



Thank you sir! 

I can't complain about the thermals at this point plus we're going into winter. My case fans are all on low speed as it stands on an 80-degree day and I'm seeing 60s and 70s under load depending on what I'm looking at on HWiNFO. 

I need to get up to speed. I haven't benched, stressed (other than some P95 recently to make sure things were stable), or tuned this setup nor did I do much with my old 2700x because it wasn't capable of anything beyond what PBO could do. So I undervolted it for a little bit. Even that was trivial.

I'm game to learn some new stuff, you got some articles or videos I can check out? Thanks again!


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 5, 2022)

Kursah said:


> Thank you sir!
> 
> I can't complain about the thermals at this point plus we're going into winter. My case fans are all on low speed as it stands on an 80-degree day and I'm seeing 60s and 70s under load depending on what I'm looking at on HWiNFO.
> 
> ...



Only Youtuber with Ryzen 5000 tweaking content in a reasonable package (not bullshitting out their ass or rambling for 2 hours) might be Optimumtech. I don't think he talks about power limits though, for best thermal results you might need to combine lower PPT/TDC/EDC with Curve Optimizer.










We've got a lot of threads here spanning a long time, @Mussels post#1 has the basics:









						5800x (and other Zen 3 chips) PBO settings/Temperature fix
					

The 5800x is well known for having heat issues on stock settings, because it's single 8 core CCX design shares the same power limits as the 2x6 (dual 6 core CCX) 5900x - so it's got a lot less space to cool itself with.   A Zen 3 chiplet (whether it has 4 cores or 8) is 80.7mm square -modern...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Mussels (Oct 5, 2022)

RoyZ said:


> I have a MSI B450 Gaming Plus motherboard, and I read it can take the 5000 ryzen CPUs with latest BIOS update.
> 
> So since I plan to stick with this system for some time still, I'll probably replace my 3600 with a 5000 series.
> Here where I live is not easy getting a good deal on a 5800X3D, so I'm probably gonna aim at a 5700X or a 5800X when I see a promo.
> ...


5700x are an amazing gaming CPU, and have none of the heat issues other ryzens have - I was totally stunned seeing how cold they run on a friends system, the first time i'd seen one in person

*The 5700x is Zen 3 tuned for the very best power efficiency, the best performance per watt overall. It matches a 5950x multi threaded, and is second best single threaded*
(The 5700G is absurdly efficient, but not as powerful overall due to less cache)

It's not #1 in gaming efficiency (5600x beats it) - but if you want more multi threaded power than a 5600x has, it's the winner there








My view on these graphs:

Gaming efficiency matters now - but over time as games get more and more threads involved, you need to look at the multi threaded graph for future needs. 
You don't want a CPU that runs fine now, but when a next gen game comes out using 12 threads and AVX, and suddenly you thermal throttle.

Generally you'll find a certain threshold where you use more power for almost zero performance gain - on the 5800x i think around 120W PPT was that limit, the last 20W just add heat.
If you find out those limits, you can control the CPU's even better (Just find your stock and ECO values and aim in between them, raise lower them all 10% at a time or something)

And then if you have the time, throw in curve optimiser and see if you can get more clock speed with the same limits


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## RoyZ (Oct 5, 2022)

Mussels said:


> 5700x are an amazing gaming CPU, and have none of the heat issues other ryzens have - I was totally stunned seeing how cold they run on a friends system, the first time i'd seen one in person
> 
> *The 5700x is Zen 3 tuned for the very best power efficiency, the best performance per watt overall. It matches a 5950x multi threaded, and is second best single threaded*
> (The 5700G is absurdly efficient, but not as powerful overall due to less cache)
> ...


Thank you for your reply. Great information there.

I got another quick question for you guys, about BIOS - AGESA(?)

I'm currently using on my mobo a BIOS version from late 2019, it says *AGESA 1.0.0.4 Patch B.*

In my current system (MSI B450 Gaming Plus + R5 3600), do I get any benefit upgrading to the latest BIOS* (AGESA 1.2.0.7*)? Or should I only worry about that when I get my 5000 series ryzen? (cause then I WILL have to do this update, to be able to use the 5000 series on my B450)


----------



## Mussels (Oct 6, 2022)

You might as well update since it adds in support for windows 11 officially, as well as various fixes


If you're using an antique GPU you may have issues if you dont have UEFI support


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## Durhamranger (Oct 6, 2022)

Just a bit of fun....


----------



## freeagent (Oct 9, 2022)

Well, doesn't matter.. 2x sticks, 4x sticks, 1933 is the max WHEA free I can get. Was hoping for at least 2000 FCLK with 2x sticks but she just doesn't wanna.















Its also good for TM5 Anta777 Absolute but I forgot to copy the screen to my storage drive. VDIMM is a bit high at 1.575v but my Black and Whites are to blame because they are not as strong as my Royals.


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## Mussels (Oct 10, 2022)

I guess clocking up the IF is also raising the clocks on the 3D cache too?


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 10, 2022)

Mussels said:


> I guess clocking up the IF is also raising the clocks on the 3D cache too?



Cache clock has not got anything to do with Fabric clock.

Other Zen 3 clocks L3 mirrors core clocks under load. 5800X3D L3 seems like it might be behaving a little differently. L3 is still stuck on VDDCR_CPU obviously, but idk if AMD has already split off L3 clock, or maybe introduced some new C-state stuff that's hampering software's ability to read L3 clock


----------



## Mussels (Oct 10, 2022)

Mines yet to arrive, be interesting to see how she fares


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## tabascosauz (Oct 10, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Mines yet to arrive, be interesting to see how she fares



X570 Strix-F, you have access to modded BIOSes that might give you control over PBO and CO. Except Fmax which is hardlocked. The rest of us don't have any native BIOS access to PBO limits or curve optimizer, only through PBO2 tuner, or Kombo Strike for MSI (which is kinda janky and not quite what CO is 100%).

(same stuff posted on different forums)

[Bios Mod] ROG Strix X570-E/F/I Gaming | Overclock.net
[Sammelthread] - ASUS X570 Strix Series (X570-E Gaming, X570-E Gaming Wifi II, X570-F Gaming, X570-I Gaming) | Hardwareluxx


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## Mussels (Oct 10, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> X570 Strix-F, you have access to modded BIOSes that might give you control over PBO and CO. Except Fmax which is hardlocked. The rest of us don't have any native BIOS access to PBO limits or curve optimizer, only through PBO2 tuner, or Kombo Strike for MSI (which is kinda janky and not quite what CO is 100%).
> 
> (same stuff posted on different forums)
> 
> ...


I've been following the second one, wasnt aware of the overclock.net one
So far they mostly just added chipset fan control so i never bothered, i'll have to see what they've done

edit: Ah yep i missed when this was added:


Unlocked PBO for 5800X3D
PBO Limits and CO should work

Hey tabasco if you're feeling brave, go see if this tool lets you modify PBO settings on your x3D

GitHub - DavidS95/Smokeless_UMAF

Popped in another thread where a user tweaked their ryzen laptops settings with it, that are hidden in the default BIOS


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 11, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Hey tabasco if you're feeling brave, go see if this tool lets you modify PBO settings on your x3D
> 
> GitHub - DavidS95/Smokeless_UMAF
> 
> Popped in another thread where a user tweaked their ryzen laptops settings with it, that are hidden in the default BIOS



X3D may do some things differently I think. Those options are hidden but might still be tweakable on Renoir mobile. X3D automatically wipes a lot of these settings on every reboot, maybe on a hardware level (Fmax is already locked on a hardware level and can't be worked around). Not sure but someone was saying that on X3D, AGESA runs its whitelisting thing after POST so what you see in BIOS is not what you get when you actually get into Windows. idk which settings that applies to. Others trying to mod BIOS were finding that entire CBS/OC menus were missing from pre-1207 AGESA (which I won't do, 1207 nukes my performance).

There's a lot of risk in this stuff (I tried a modded BIOS someone made for my board, flashback refused to take the file regardless of the USB I used) and uncertainty between different board vendors - just running PBO2 Tuner automatically through a startup Task right now, working well


----------



## outpt (Oct 11, 2022)

Psychoholic said:


> WIsh me luck..  I usually dont buy new gen stuff this soon, but my alderlake rig didnt give me any issues early on.
> 
> Asus X670E-E and 7950x.
> The DDR5-5600 was free (microcenter is running a deal where you get free memory with Zen4)
> ...


All hale the king


----------



## Mussels (Oct 11, 2022)

This is what i'm looking forward to on the x3D:
How high can i get my 99%? ('scuse the steam achievements behind the first result overlay appeared on wrong screen)

1440p (DLAA)




4k (DLAA)




4K DLSS





Edit: Huh, DX11 Render latency is way lower than DX12 - almost halved?


----------



## Chomiq (Oct 11, 2022)

F


----------



## Kissamies (Oct 11, 2022)

Tips for getting rid of that random audio crackling which some Ryzen users have/had? No matter do I use the board's own audio or DAC.

CH VII Hero with BIOS version 4901 (most recent one)
R5 3600 (no manual OC, just PBO on)
HyperX Fury 32GB DDR4-3200 kit with XMP on (16-18-18-36-1T)

I didn't have this issue with my older Gigabyte B550M Aorus Elite. 

edit: I have also a fresh Win11 Pro install, installed it yesterday.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 11, 2022)

You can hear the sadness, booo. 

I feel for him.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 11, 2022)

Lenne said:


> Tips for getting rid of that random audio crackling which some Ryzen users have/had? No matter do I use the board's own audio or DAC.
> 
> CH VII Hero with BIOS version 4901 (most recent one)
> R5 3600 (no manual OC, just PBO on)
> ...



Reinstalling Windows shouldn't help, it's either a firmware/hardware problem. There's not too many things you can try

Chipset drivers? Latest is from August '22
Playing with VSOC/VDDG_IOD to see if anything helps
Keeping/getting rid of DAC drivers (probably only works for crappy Focusrite)
Cstates off maybe? Generally not a great idea for idle power and sometimes performance
As you said yourself, it's really board dependent. AMD has tried to solve this problem like 3 distinct times through AGESA. But if your board just has it then sometimes your only solution is go to a different board. My B550M TUF Wifi couldn't get away from the USB issues but my Impact and all my ITX boards have never had any problems.

Though, on a lot of AM4 block diagrams I've seen, the onboard audio is usually connected to the CPU not the PCH. Not sure what's going on there with your board, the audio popping issues usually are from external audio devices and part of the USB problems on AM4


----------



## Kissamies (Oct 11, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Reinstalling Windows shouldn't help, it's either a firmware/hardware problem. There's not too many things you can try
> 
> Chipset drivers? Latest is from August '22
> Playing with VSOC/VDDG_IOD to see if anything helps
> ...


I have the latest chipset drivers as well. I'll do some fine tuning with those voltages as I already tried something which I found from reddit via google: 




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/el8odk

And yeah, I just reinstalled Windows as I thought that there may have been some crap left behind from the old board's audio drivers though I also uninstalled those.


----------



## thesmokingman (Oct 12, 2022)

Get yourself external audio and free yourself from onboard sound forever....

I carry over my Fiio K5 Pro and Micca Origain (or x amp/rec) to every system, same excellent audio every rig it goes into.


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## Mussels (Oct 12, 2022)

Last i checked, i was able to get just under or above 60ns
I need to figure out whats messing with me, before i slap in the x3D (just arrived)

Anyone got recommended benchmarks and such to do before/after with? R23 obviously isnt the best choice






Lenne said:


> Tips for getting rid of that random audio crackling which some Ryzen users have/had? No matter do I use the board's own audio or DAC.
> 
> CH VII Hero with BIOS version 4901 (most recent one)
> R5 3600 (no manual OC, just PBO on)
> ...


SoC voltage to 1.15V, PCI-E 3.0 - dont use PCI-E risers or USB extensions for high power devices
The top four USB ports are direct from CPU and usually better, but instability from connected devices feeds back into it
Most onboard audio is PCI-E connected, errors on the bus (WHEA included) can cause everything from crackles and issues, to bus resets (the infamous USB dropouts)
Since i solved the memory issues (faulty stick) on my 2700x system, i've not had any issues in months


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 12, 2022)

@Mussels did you set yourself up for benching? ie. no background programs, disable internet + reboot once, disable search service if necessary, no HWInfo or other monitoring for absolute best latency, etc.

Or just straight up safemode works too. Give your timings a quick check too.

Copy looks a little low (closer to 3200CL16 bandwidth). L3 latency is really high, seems like you didn't get rid of background stuff. First run usually suffers too

You can double click on any one box to just test that field (ie. DRAM latency). Saves time and allows you to bench back to back to see if some background process is interfering

Expect a 3-4ns penalty from the 5800X3D on both DRAM and L3 latencies.

I mean, it's DRAM performance so you wouldn't be using R23 either. Maybe Linpack, Geekbench3 memory score or the Membench inside DRAM Calc? Although, none of them will tell you anything meaningful without a normal baseline


----------



## mplayerMuPDF (Oct 12, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Reinstalling Windows shouldn't help, it's either a firmware/hardware problem. There's not too many things you can try
> 
> Chipset drivers? Latest is from August '22
> Playing with VSOC/VDDG_IOD to see if anything helps
> ...


So if you get a different board you _might _get away from the audio issues but get the USB issues instead or vice versa... Man, I like my 2600 lite/Zen+ and Ryzen in general (until the Pluton garbage/6000 series, at least) but this stuff is just absolutely unacceptable to me. It's probably partly due to how I use my PC/what I value but to me this stuff is a big deal, much more so than getting 10-20% more performance, 2 more cores or whatever.



Mussels said:


> Last i checked, i was able to get just under or above 60ns
> I need to figure out whats messing with me, before i slap in the x3D (just arrived)
> 
> Anyone got recommended benchmarks and such to do before/after with? R23 obviously isnt the best choice
> ...


So some USB ports are connected directly to the CPU? I just checked to see if this is why I haven't had any more USB issues with my keyboard and mouse at least in a while (since the last AGESA update at least but probably longer) but it turns out my mouse is actually in the Startech 4*USB 2.0 header adapter, so definitely not connected directly to the CPU (or is it?) I was constantly switching stuff around when I was experiencing those issues. Now it is just the USB WiFi every so often and IIRC simply replugging into the same port fixes it.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 12, 2022)

mplayerMuPDF said:


> So if you get a different board you _might _get away from the audio issues but get the USB issues instead or vice versa... Man, I like my 2600 lite/Zen+ and Ryzen in general (until the Pluton garbage/6000 series, at least) but this stuff is just absolutely unacceptable to me. It's probably partly due to how I use my PC/what I value but to me this stuff is a big deal, much more so than getting 10-20% more performance, 2 more cores or whatever.
> 
> 
> So some USB ports are connected directly to the CPU? I just checked to see if this is why I haven't had any more USB issues with my keyboard and mouse at least in a while (since the last AGESA update at least but probably longer) but it turns out my mouse is actually in the Startech 4*USB 2.0 header adapter, so definitely not connected directly to the CPU (or is it?) I was constantly switching stuff around when I was experiencing those issues. Now it is just the USB WiFi every so often and IIRC simply replugging into the same port fixes it.



Each board has a different distribution of which ports are CPU, which ports are PCH, and which ports are third party controller (if applicable). You have to look at your board specs/manual/block diagram to find out. This isn't an AMD exclusive thing.

Ryzen was a lot simpler in all respects back in the 2000 days.

I won't get into whether these issues are acceptable or whether Intel is better. But to be entirely fair, on both Intel and AMD platforms there are so many issues that come not out of platform firmware but out of vendor- and board-specific implementations, that in the case of a lot of issues, the only solution is to go to a different board. I don't view that as an AMD exclusive.

But I can't deny that dealing with a number of those problems wasn't one of the factors pushing me towards switching to Comet Lake, at the time.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 12, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> @Mussels did you set yourself up for benching? ie. no background programs, disable internet + reboot once, disable search service if necessary, no HWInfo or other monitoring for absolute best latency, etc.
> 
> Or just straight up safemode works too. Give your timings a quick check too.
> 
> ...


No, it's my usual setup - but quit running programs
I peaked at 59ns with everything quit, usually low 60's

That was at 3900, i dropped to 3800 a few weeks back diagnosing a crash (nvidia driver in the end, and never set it back)
Ram speed and IF are 1:1

Now it's 70-75 with everything quit and i'm not sure why, but a lot has changed - drivers, windows to the new build, etc.

This was retests



tabascosauz said:


> @Mussels did you set yourself up for benching? ie. no background programs, disable internet + reboot once, disable search service if necessary, no HWInfo or other monitoring for absolute best latency, etc.
> 
> Or just straight up safemode works too. Give your timings a quick check too.
> 
> ...


I figured out the AIDA scores - it's because i'm running an all core OC, and not PBO. that 500Mhz drop in cache speeds has a hit.


I was just after something to compare with that's easy to run, in about 30 minutes i'll drain the loop



mplayerMuPDF said:


> So if you get a different board you _might _get away from the audio issues but get the USB issues instead or vice versa... Man, I like my 2600 lite/Zen+ and Ryzen in general (until the Pluton garbage/6000 series, at least) but this stuff is just absolutely unacceptable to me. It's probably partly due to how I use my PC/what I value but to me this stuff is a big deal, much more so than getting 10-20% more performance, 2 more cores or whatever.
> 
> 
> So some USB ports are connected directly to the CPU? I just checked to see if this is why I haven't had any more USB issues with my keyboard and mouse at least in a while (since the last AGESA update at least but probably longer) but it turns out my mouse is actually in the Startech 4*USB 2.0 header adapter, so definitely not connected directly to the CPU (or is it?) I was constantly switching stuff around when I was experiencing those issues. Now it is just the USB WiFi every so often and IIRC simply replugging into the same port fixes it.


Yes, four USB 3.0 5Gb ports are direct to the CPU. These are the most reliable and have the best power delivery (best one to use my Rift S on, regardless of which ryzen CPU was in these boards)

As said tho, they can suffer disconnects if attached devices are erroring. PCI-E risers and unstable memory were common causes, it's why some people have never ending issues but others are problem free - because it's usually caused by an external piece of hardware

I'll do it the lazy, barely repeateable way:


DRG, 4K ultra, DX12 all settings ultra, DLSS auto
Starting point, turn left to focus on the display screen
GPU unlocked to full wattage





Since i play this a lot, let's see how that changes with the new CPU


----------



## mplayerMuPDF (Oct 12, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Each board has a different distribution of which ports are CPU, which ports are PCH, and which ports are third party controller (if applicable). You have to look at your board specs/manual/block diagram to find out. This isn't an AMD exclusive thing.
> 
> Ryzen was a lot simpler in all respects back in the 2000 days.
> 
> ...


I mean, I guess it is theoretically possible, but it seems _very _unlikely to me that this Biostar X470GTQ just happens to coincidentally independently have USB issues when B450/X470 were in general plagued by this issue. I certainly don't mean to suggest that Intel never has had or has issues but I still find these issues unacceptable when buying a high-end chipset such as X470. Now, maybe this is normal and what the DIY PC world is like in general. If that is the case then next time I will buy an industrial motherboard or thin client with Ryzen Embedded SoC instead or something similar. If that makes me weird, then so be it. I prefer having the basics work reliably over having 12 cores, PCIe 5.0 or some other gizmo. When I was using a Kaveri-based EliteBook as a desktop replacement (connected to my monitor and keyboard etc), I never once had any issue with IO AFAIR.


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Oct 12, 2022)

mplayerMuPDF said:


> Now, maybe this is normal and what the DIY PC world is like in general.


Fixed it for ya. Got an Intel based Dell and it has a lot of random tiny issues. USB dropping out, weird iGPU artifacts in MS Office, Chrome crashing, random freezes, etc. It's a computer thing. 


mplayerMuPDF said:


> I will buy an industrial motherboard or thin client with Ryzen Embedded SoC


AMD 4800S desktop kit? AKA the PS5 without iGPU?


----------



## mplayerMuPDF (Oct 12, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Yes, four USB 3.0 5Gb ports are direct to the CPU. These are the most reliable and have the best power delivery (best one to use my Rift S on, regardless of which ryzen CPU was in these boards)
> 
> As said tho, they can suffer disconnects if attached devices are erroring. PCI-E risers and unstable memory were common causes, it's why some people have never ending issues but others are problem free - because it's usually caused by an external piece of hardware


Hmm, seems like my mouse has been connected to the USB 2.0 header and my G84-5200 keyboard is to a 3.0 port (don't know if it is CPU direct). I don't remember to what port my old CM Storm QuickFire XT was last connected. Now, that I think of it I have had this mouse from the beginning with this desktop and I have had my QuickFire XT and USB WiFi (well, technically it is another one but I have had issues with both on this computer) longer. I wonder if this cheap mouse may have been responsible for my USB issues. On the other hand, I have, certainly for a long time, only had issues where (often on boot or after resuming from sleep) some device does not work until I replug it (sometimes in another port) but after that I stop having issues, at least until the next reboot, so no truly random disconnects or anything like that. And when I experience it I always get the same or very similar dmesg output on Linux (I have posted it before in another thread) indicating that a USB port is not working correctly. I don't have any kind of PCIe riser and I have always had this Crucial RAM installed which should be good quality memory. I have never OCed anything on this system either, actually I discovered recently that I don't even have XMP enabled so my RAM is running underclocked technically @ 2667 MHz (it is rated for 3200 MHz).



Count von Schwalbe said:


> Fixed it for ya. Got an Intel based Dell and it has a lot of random tiny issues. USB dropping out, weird iGPU artifacts in MS Office, Chrome crashing, random freezes, etc. It's a computer thing.
> 
> AMD 4800S desktop kit? AKA the PS5 without iGPU?


Asrock Industrial, for example, sells Ryzen Embedded (V and R series) Mini ITX motherboards. There are HP thin clients (e.g. T640/T740) with V and R series SoCs (succeeding the old cat and construction core based G series SoCs) that you can buy on eBay as well.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 12, 2022)

mplayerMuPDF said:


> I mean, I guess it is theoretically possible, but it seems _very _unlikely to me that this Biostar X470GTQ just happens to coincidentally independently have USB issues when B450/X470 were in general plagued by this issue. I certainly don't mean to suggest that Intel never has had or has issues but I still find these issues unacceptable when buying a high-end chipset such as X470. Now, maybe this is normal and what the DIY PC world is like in general. If that is the case then next time I will buy an industrial motherboard or thin client with Ryzen Embedded SoC instead or something similar. If that makes me weird, then so be it. I prefer having the basics work reliably over having 12 cores, PCIe 5.0 or some other gizmo. When I was using a Kaveri-based EliteBook as a desktop replacement (connected to my monitor and keyboard etc), I never once had any issue with IO AFAIR.



I didn't say your board is the only one affected. I said that all these "fixes", short of using a different board, don't have a great track record of working. AMD only got around to seriously fixing the USB issues on AGESA 1200-1202, which was well after the launch of Ryzen 5000 and B550, and clearly even that didn't do the trick for everyone.

Every device is only as good as the firmware the hardware/board vendor is willing to write for it. If Asus/Gigabyte/MSI/ASRock are already struggling to cope with AGESA and setting an incredibly low bar for reliability, for minor vendors like Biostar and Colorful the bar is probably just lying on the ground.

Intel's advantage is that they don't have a product model that requires continuous support for new features in board firmware over time. They aim to have firmware ready at launch for the feature set advertised at launch. What you see is what you'll ever get, for the most part. Their idea of big firmware controversy is Rocket Lake launching without final microcode, patched in a week's time. Your Kaveri laptop had the same philosophy, as do most Intel mobility platforms (except where mitigations for major vulnerabilities like Plundervolt are concerned), which is why you can have some legitimate expectations as to stability.

AM4 isn't the same. To support 4+ generations of wildly different CPUs, AGESA has had to change significantly. Go find your PBO settings in the launch BIOS for your X470 board, then go see if it's in the same place in a recent AGESA 1206/1207 BIOS. Curve Optimizer being introduced late for Ryzen 5000. Split VDDGs that don't exist in monolithic parts. ReBAR appearing on X370 boards.

Regardless of whether you view it as a good thing or a bad thing, if you're expecting top notch consistency from AM4, you gotta manage those expectations.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 12, 2022)

4.55GHz vs 4.6GHz, i can see this being so similar

Totally not optimised or anything yet, i loaded the same BIOS profile as well - so it's got some mixed settings i need to check/reset too







mplayerMuPDF said:


> Hmm, seems like my mouse has been connected to the USB 2.0 header and my G84-5200 keyboard is to a 3.0 port (don't know if it is CPU direct). I don't remember to what port my old CM Storm QuickFire XT was last connected. Now, that I think of it I have had this mouse from the beginning with this desktop and I have had my QuickFire XT and USB WiFi (well, technically it is another one but I have had issues with both on this computer) longer. I wonder if this cheap mouse may have been responsible for my USB issues. On the other hand, I have, certainly for a long time, only had issues where (often on boot or after resuming from sleep) some device does not work until I replug it (sometimes in another port) but after that I stop having issues, at least until the next reboot, so no truly random disconnects or anything like that. And when I experience it I always get the same or very similar dmesg output on Linux (I have posted it before in another thread) indicating that a USB port is not working correctly. I don't have any kind of PCIe riser and I have always had this Crucial RAM installed which should be good quality memory. I have never OCed anything on this system either, actually I discovered recently that I don't even have XMP enabled so my RAM is running underclocked technically @ 2667 MHz (it is rated for 3200 MHz).
> 
> 
> Asrock Industrial, for example, sells Ryzen Embedded (V and R series) Mini ITX motherboards. There are HP thin clients (e.g. T640/T740) with V and R series SoCs (succeeding the old cat and construction core based G series SoCs) that you can buy on eBay as well.


sleep mode related issues are almost always RAM if it wont wake, and SoC/chipset voltages with USB issues. Voltage is drooping when it wakes up, not enough to reset the specific device and it 'hangs'

You can easily try an externally powered USB hub, 2.0 or 3.0 - it'll help prevent a lot of issues since the external power will keep the devices 'awake' the entire time


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 12, 2022)

Mussels said:


> 4.55GHz vs 4.6GHz, i can see this being so similar
> 
> Totally not optimised or anything yet, i loaded the same BIOS profile as well - so it's got some mixed settings i need to check/reset too



Always should clear CMOS when swapping CPUs, X3D's Tweaker screen is very different

Write looking a bit wack but things look fine. CPU-Z ST a little low but carryover dirty settings from 5800X and being on a AGESA 1207 BIOS can easily account for that.

AIDA is usually very optimistic on its displayed speed, you'll find usually there's a bit of a wall at 4.45 due to how the boost works on this CPU. 4.55 is still Fmax, but think of it like the i7-8086K problem of reaching 5.0 only on strictly 1 core - only running purely a 1T load with nothing else going on will you ever see 4.55. Different from most other Zen 3 behaviour. Sometimes that last 100MHz really feels a bit like TVB for Intel


----------



## Mussels (Oct 12, 2022)

So far:
Many of the modded settings do nothing, or change what windows things is the base clock but get over-ridden, as expected.

-30 in the BIOS
PBO set to motherboard
Nothing else can really be changed:
Not a clean OS, just quit my running programs:





Most things quit but hardly a benchmark environment:
TIM may need time to settle in or even need reapplication, this cooler sadly isn't the best for AM4 despite it being made specifically for them (fucking EK)

About 2.7%, 350 points higher than w1zzard and i've had this installed and running for about 20 minutes of playtime
AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D Review - The Magic of 3D V-Cache - Rendering | TechPowerUp


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 12, 2022)

@Mussels all core Fmax is basically 4450. If you're pushing more than 110W for that then you're wasting that power, set lower limits. I'm at 15100, just under 100 watts, around 4.4GHz all core and 75-80C. To get meaningfully farther than 15000 you'll have to dig into BCLK because of the 4450 limit.

I wouldn't blame EK so quickly, it's just a hot chip. Yes it clocks low, yes Vcore is low, but it's just a hot chip. The point is to get optimal performance without having to worry about RAM/Fabric or clocks. You won't be anywhere near that in games.

You can also play with additional positive/negative vcore offset if it helps you out


----------



## Mussels (Oct 12, 2022)

Mussels said:


> DRG, 4K ultra, DX12 all settings ultra, DLSS auto
> Starting point, turn left to focus on the display screen
> GPU unlocked to full wattage
> View attachment 265100
> ...


And with the new CPU: Pretty much the same  GPU limited or even game limited, one assumes





And then my undervolted GPU settings:
oh no, 99% is at 226FPS for 140W less -.-


----------



## Kissamies (Oct 12, 2022)

Let's try with SOC 1.15V




thesmokingman said:


> Get yourself external audio and free yourself from onboard sound forever....
> 
> I carry over my Fiio K5 Pro and Micca Origain (or x amp/rec) to every system, same excellent audio every rig it goes into.


I said that the crackling happens with DAC as well..


----------



## Mussels (Oct 12, 2022)

Ehehehehehee.





Sadly, WHEA's appeared over time. Still fun to even boot this high.



Lenne said:


> Let's try with SOC 1.15V
> 
> 
> 
> I said that the crackling happens with DAC as well..


Oh, looking up WHEA info on x3D and found this

"I was able to fix my *USB Dropouts and Sound Issues* by increasing the vddg iod voltage"


----------



## Kissamies (Oct 12, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Oh, looking up WHEA info on x3D and found this
> 
> "I was able to fix my *USB Dropouts and Sound Issues* by increasing the vddg iod voltage"


I put both VDDG to 1.05V. If it doesn't help, I'll still increase those a little bit.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 12, 2022)

Lenne said:


> I put both VDDG to 1.05V. If it doesn't help, I'll still increase those a little bit.


vddg needs to be 500mv below your SoC voltage

So if SoC is 1.15v, those shouldbe 1.10v

Mine auto raises but only to a certain limit, so 1.15v SoC leaves them at 1.0477v


These are my Auto values, SoC was set to 1.175v for testing and the others are auto
This is for 2000MHz IF testing, so these are on the high side


----------



## Kissamies (Oct 12, 2022)

Mussels said:


> vddg needs to be 500mv below your SoC voltage
> 
> So if SoC is 1.15v, those shouldbe 1.10v
> 
> Mine auto raises but only to a certain limit, so 1.15v SoC leaves them at 1.0477v


Good to know, I'll boot immediately and fix that.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 12, 2022)

Good progress here

1. FPS is higher and smoother, 99% has less dips as things happen on screen, overall performance is fairly similar.
2. IMC is definitely better.

3933 rock stable, no WHEA after 2 hours of DRG and an hour of R23








If i cant get 4000, this will absolutely be acceptable. All i had to do was put TRFC back on auto, and i can tune that in again once i know the maximum.

I gotta sleep, but heres the cleaned up (as best i can by end tasking everything) aida64 results


----------



## Kissamies (Oct 12, 2022)

Now sounds like that the crackling is gone, thanks to fine-tuning the SOC voltages.  I still need yet to try with the onboard sound later, but with DAC, seems to be fine.

edit: Here's mine with just PBO on and RAM at stock XMP settings (as I was troubleshooting the sound issue)


----------



## Dr. Dro (Oct 12, 2022)

Spent the day optimizing my rig a little bit. Downgraded BIOS back to one with AGESA 1.2.0.3c to work around the nasty EDC bug. Win11 seems to consistently score lower in Cinebench, though. I've never quite figured out why, though I suspect it has to do with so many background tasks.





Timings:


----------



## Toothless (Oct 12, 2022)

Can't hit 3600 on the memory since I'm running four dual-rank dimms.


----------



## Dr. Dro (Oct 12, 2022)

Toothless said:


> Can't hit 3600 on the memory since I'm running four dual-rank dimms.



So am I, 3600 is doable with my Dominator Platinum kit at 1.375 V. They are some weird downbin of Samsung B-die, at least according to the research I did and Thaiphoon data, but amazing sticks nonetheless. I didn't push them too hard, figured, the performance gains aren't worth the headache of getting it stable, or the extra voltage/heat and strain it brings.

You may have better luck getting them to boot at 3600 by adjusting your tRFC values and increasing DRAM training voltage if possible. The formula for the tRFC adjustment should be:

`tRFC2 = tRFC / 1.34`
`tRFC4 = tRFC2 / 1.625`

I've read that the tRFC2 and tRFC4 values don't matter on AM4 platform, I don't know though, I just tweaked them according to that formula anyway, and it worked fine for me. This chart is a quick cheat sheet for converting tRFC clocks into real time latency:





My CB scores are on the same ballpark of yours here. My high score was about 29,3k, though, with a barebones installation of Windows 10.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 12, 2022)

Mussels said:


> If i cant get 4000, this will absolutely be acceptable. All i had to do was put TRFC back on auto, and i can tune that in again once i know the maximum.
> 
> I gotta sleep, but heres the cleaned up (as best i can by end tasking everything) aida64 results



They do say that memory and Fabric hardly matter much for X3D..........but almost 3-digit tRC and 4-digit tRFC are really stretching that statement a bit even for MJR





You should improve quite a bit if you shave off that tRFC and tRC a bit (try somewhere in the 60s for tRC?)







Dr. Dro said:


> So am I, 3600 is doable with my Dominator Platinum kit at 1.375 V. They are some weird downbin of Samsung B-die, at least according to the research I did and Thaiphoon data, but amazing sticks nonetheless. I didn't push them too hard, figured, the performance gains aren't worth the headache of getting it stable, or the extra voltage/heat and strain it brings.
> 
> You may have better luck getting them to boot at 3600 by adjusting your tRFC values and increasing DRAM training voltage if possible. The formula for the tRFC adjustment should be:
> 
> ...



The idea for tRFC2 and tRFC4 goes like this:


```
tRFC2 and tRFC4 are timings that activate when the operating temperature of DRAM hits 85 °C. Below these temperatures, these timings don't do anything.
```

Whether this is true, can't really say, but I do know:

OCers don't care about tRFC2 and tRFC4
Every board vendor sets them differently. Some have tRFC2 high, some roughly follow that formula (no idea where that even came from), some set all 3 the exact same. It doesn't make a difference.
Appropriately, they don't matter to performance


----------



## Dr. Dro (Oct 12, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> The idea for tRFC2 and tRFC4 goes like this:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...



Nice, just learned something new 

With the conservative voltage profile, hefty heatsink and open frame case, my RAM won't be really hitting anywhere close to 85, but that is one thing I hope I don't have to test


----------



## Mussels (Oct 13, 2022)

Toothless said:


> Can't hit 3600 on the memory since I'm running four dual-rank dimms.


Have you tried more SoC voltage until it all catches on fire?



Dr. Dro said:


> So am I, 3600 is doable with my Dominator Platinum kit at 1.375 V. They are some weird downbin of Samsung B-die, at least according to the research I did and Thaiphoon data, but amazing sticks nonetheless. I didn't push them too hard, figured, the performance gains aren't worth the headache of getting it stable, or the extra voltage/heat and strain it brings.
> 
> You may have better luck getting them to boot at 3600 by adjusting your tRFC values and increasing DRAM training voltage if possible. The formula for the tRFC adjustment should be:
> 
> ...


That cheat sheet is based on samsung memory iirc - as an example, my 32GB hynix sticks will not go below 704 TRFC at 3600, and they're over 1000 for 3800/3933



Dr. Dro said:


> Nice, just learned something new
> 
> With the conservative voltage profile, hefty heatsink and open frame case, my RAM won't be really hitting anywhere close to 85, but that is one thing I hope I don't have to test


I mean... i've had several systems go unstable if the ram went bast 50C, and one dodgy kit at 40C - so yeah they should never hit that


----------



## thesmokingman (Oct 13, 2022)

Toothless said:


> Can't hit 3600 on the memory since I'm running four dual-rank dimms.


3400 is pretty good and that latency you have is pretty good. I've run into the same wall albeit on threadrippers.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 13, 2022)

She aint no sports car, but she has some curves. This thing is like 3 steps behind a regular Vermeer. But it is hella smooth in game. So weird. But in Aida, the copy speeds with 4 sticks smoke 2 sticks running 2K 1:1. Latency seems to be about .5ns off.. probably because I was messing with my saved profile. Things seems to get a bit dirty in uefi if you make a lot of changes vs just entering your settings once. It could just be me though


----------



## Mussels (Oct 13, 2022)

Gaming results:
I reset HWinfo after I was already in game and took the screenshot before quitting so the average stats here are true gameplay averages, no idle time.

80 minutes of DRG, 4K ultra 140FPS (DX12, Unreal engine 3)
Peak system wattage of 380W, 32" monitor included.
CPU peaked at 63C, 69W
CPU averaged 48C 56W
3090 was in the 200-250W range (seriously, the gains from it going to the 375W limit are totally not worth it)

It's the little things like average core count being 3 threads average, 5 at most that show that 6 core CPU's are definitely viable for gaming.


----------



## Psychoholic (Oct 13, 2022)

I may be returning my 7950x and Asus X670E-E.
Random Bluescreens the past few days. Tried a few things (different Memory, uninstalling software, full reinstall of OS, etc)
Frankly I spent too much to beta test this stuff.

A quick google seems im not alone in these blue screens.
One thing i have not tried is windows 10.

sure is fast though, when it works


----------



## The King (Oct 13, 2022)

Are you running the latest BIOS? I think one was released 2 days ago.





						ROG CROSSHAIR X670E EXTREME | ROG Crosshair | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global
					

Designed for the broadest range of demanding fans, the ROG Crosshair X670E Extreme features 20 + 2 power stages, DDR5 support, five M.2 slots, ROG Gen-Z.2, a USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 front-panel connector with Quick Charge 4+ Support, dual USB4®, PCIe® 5.0 and onboard Wi-Fi 6E.



					rog.asus.com


----------



## thesmokingman (Oct 13, 2022)

Guess I'll share my 32gb two stick setup. It could use some more tweaking...


----------



## The King (Oct 13, 2022)

@thesmokingman 

Change tCWL to 16 and then RDWR to 8 or 9.


----------



## thesmokingman (Oct 13, 2022)

The King said:


> @thesmokingman
> 
> Change tCWL to 16 and RDWR to 8 or 9.


Yea, those are dram calc suggestions, they don't work. It won't even boot with trdwr at 12.


----------



## The King (Oct 13, 2022)

thesmokingman said:


> Yea, those are dram calc suggestions, they don't work. It won't even boot with trdwr at 12.


Yes because tCWL need to be 16 it wont boot with CWL 10 and low RDWR like 8 or 9

This is Micron RAM runing CL 16 CWL16 and RDWR 8. Your Samsung B-die RAM should do much better timmings than this.
What voltage are you running? At least 1.45V?


----------



## Super Firm Tofu (Oct 13, 2022)

Psychoholic said:


> I may be returning my 7950x and Asus X670E-E.
> Random Bluescreens the past few days. Tried a few things (different Memory, uninstalling software, full reinstall of OS, etc)
> Frankly I spent too much to beta test this stuff.
> 
> ...





The King said:


> Are you running the latest BIOS? I think one was released 2 days ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Also new Chipset drivers released today.



			https://www.amd.com/en/support/chipsets/amd-socket-am5/x670e
		


But to your comment, yeah, it's going to feel like beta for a while.


----------



## Toothless (Oct 13, 2022)

Time to fix CPU clocks.. Took out half the ram. Guess I can live on 32GB.

Edit:





And last edit, done with memory.


----------



## Dr. Dro (Oct 13, 2022)

Super Firm Tofu said:


> But to your comment, yeah, it's going to feel like beta for a while.



And this is what makes me so disappointed. Even now the AM4 platform has bugs that are long since known and completely unacceptable for a platform that has been around for so long.

The media's massive inertia towards publicizing and getting AMD to fix that EDC bug eating up to 10% of MT performance on every CPU with PBO enabled in the past 3 AGESA releases (almost a year!) is baffling, if it was Intel people would be screaming that Intel nerfed overclocking or whatever. It's especially nasty on the 65 W spec processors because it limits them to just 90 A of current, and it really hurts the 5950X too.

I love my CPU but this platform can be such a bother sometimes. AM5 is definitely going to have a long way to go... because its 5 year old predecessor does!


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 13, 2022)

Soooo.........apparently it's not just Asus, and all 1207 BIOSes are just worthless garbage?

Moved back into the Unify-X and the A.70 BIOS is also dogshit like the Impact's 4201 BIOS. Tanks the clocks, tanks the scores, yes Kombo Strike is functionally -30 (checked in PBO2 Tuner) but does weird shit and is essentially useless when I already use PBO2 Tuner......and randomly lags, just like both Asus BIOSes do...

The only annoying thing about using the previous A.50 1206 BIOS is that MSI apparently forgot that VDDG was two separate rails.

Wondrously, there's a fully available PBO section in the A.50 BIOS, and apparently it works for setting limits and scalar. Unfortunately, Curve Optimizer is nowhere to be found so I still have to use PBO2 Tuner. I'd have to go to the A.70 BIOS for Kombo Strike.......and I won't do that, especially since A.70 doesn't have the PBO menu so we're right back where we started.

How hard is it to have both PBO and CO in the BIOS, AMD? We still have control over both even with you hiding shit. You can still impose hard limits like you do on Fmax. Just give us back the menus

Can also confirm, pre-1206 BIOSes all lock the 5800X3D to base clock (3.4GHz).


----------



## Psychoholic (Oct 13, 2022)

Super Firm Tofu said:


> Also new Chipset drivers released today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yep, tried new bios 0705, new chipset driver, fresh OS install.
Clear CMOS, Different GPU, Different memory, disabling PBO/Boost, etc.

Before tearing this thing down and sending it back, i figured i'd install windows 10 pro and see how that goes, so far its survived the install and has been up about 2 hours (Longer than it was staying up before without a BSOD)


----------



## Dr. Dro (Oct 13, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Soooo.........apparently it's not just Asus, and all 1207 BIOSes are just worthless garbage?
> 
> Moved back into the Unify-X and the A.70 BIOS is also dogshit like the Impact's 4201 BIOS. Tanks the clocks, tanks the scores, yes Kombo Strike is functionally -30 (checked in PBO2 Tuner) but does weird shit and is essentially useless when I already use PBO2 Tuner......and randomly lags, just like both Asus BIOSes do...
> 
> ...



The worst thing is, the 1.2.0.7 bios for my B550-E is actually not bad, and it's had the memory training problem fixed (board stuck at 0D unless I try to power it on twice), but the EDC bug just ravages my MT performance, so I have to choose between computer turning on at the first try and no stutter with fTPM enabled, or having my full CPU performance. It's something like up to -300 MHz vs. the 1.2.0.3 C BIOS.

I can't even, and honestly with AM5 out and performing commercially poorly, what incentive does AMD even have to fix a bug that eats previous generation performance, reducing the gap between Zen 3 and Zen 4? I'd say none.


----------



## Super Firm Tofu (Oct 13, 2022)

Psychoholic said:


> Yep, tried new bios 0705, new chipset driver, fresh OS install.
> Clear CMOS, Different GPU, Different memory, disabling PBO/Boost, etc.
> 
> Before tearing this thing down and sending it back, i figured i'd install windows 10 pro and see how that goes, so far its survived the install and has been up about 2 hours (Longer than it was staying up before without a BSOD)



The instability at stock under Windows 11 would probably be a return for me.  That's was the mental line I drew when I bought my AM5 stuff.  I expected it to be a bumpy ride, and I can deal with funky stuff in AGESA, but if it wasn't going to be usable out of the box it was going back.

If I hadn't bought from Newegg with their 'replacement only' policy on the board and CPU, I probably would have returned it and stayed with the Alder Lake I was using before.  No complaints, it's just nothing special.


----------



## Psychoholic (Oct 13, 2022)

Super Firm Tofu said:


> The instability at stock under Windows 11 would probably be a return for me.  That's was the mental line I drew when I bought my AM5 stuff.  I expected it to be a bumpy ride, and I can deal with funky stuff in AGESA, but if it wasn't going to be usable out of the box it was going back.
> 
> If I hadn't bought from Newegg with their 'replacement only' policy on the board and CPU, I probably would have returned it and stayed with the Alder Lake I was using before.  No complaints, it's just nothing special.



I agree, i expected a bumpy ride as well but yeah, constant BSODS are a no go.
There have been lots of reports of random BSODs on 22H2 (Regardless of platform) so i just tried to install windows 11 22H1, it didn't even make it through the installer without a "Critical_Structure_Corruption" BSOD.
Windows 10, for whatever reason is fine so far.

I remember my 3900X system being a little funky when it was new, but i dont remember random reboots or bsods.
My alder lake system was fine since launch, glad i didnt immediately sell it


----------



## mplayerMuPDF (Oct 13, 2022)

Mussels said:


> sleep mode related issues are almost always RAM if it wont wake, and SoC/chipset voltages with USB issues. Voltage is drooping when it wakes up, not enough to reset the specific device and it 'hangs'
> 
> You can easily try an externally powered USB hub, 2.0 or 3.0 - it'll help prevent a lot of issues since the external power will keep the devices 'awake' the entire time


It doesn't happen only after resuming though. It happens on a cold boot too.


----------



## evernessince (Oct 13, 2022)

Psychoholic said:


> I agree, i expected a bumpy ride as well but yeah, constant BSODS are a no go.
> There have been lots of reports of random BSODs on 22H2 (Regardless of platform) so i just tried to install windows 11 22H1, it didn't even make it through the installer without a "Critical_Structure_Corruption" BSOD.
> Windows 10, for whatever reason is fine so far.
> 
> ...



I can confirm zero issues with my X670E setup on windows 10.  Don't know what MS is doing with windows 11 but all I hear about are the random bugs.


----------



## mplayerMuPDF (Oct 13, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Yes, four USB 3.0 5Gb ports are direct to the CPU. These are the most reliable and have the best power delivery (best one to use my Rift S on, regardless of which ryzen CPU was in these boards)
> 
> As said tho, they can suffer disconnects if attached devices are erroring. PCI-E risers and unstable memory were common causes, it's why some people have never ending issues but others are problem free - because it's usually caused by an external piece of hardware


So my X470GTQ has 4 USB 3.1gen1 5 Gbps ports on the rear IO (and headers for another 2), in addition to 2 3.1 gen2 ports on the rear IO and headers for 3.0 and 2.0, which presumably are all connected to the chipset. According to the manual the 5 Gbps (which presumably are connected directly to the CPU but I cannot find anything in the manual to confirm that) ports are split into two pairs, one pair below the PS/2 connector and one pair below the ethernet/RJ45 port, so I decided to unplug some stuff and try using those ports instead. So I plug my Cherry keyboard into one of the ports below the PS/2 connector (the other one is in use by my ALFA USB WiFi adapter) and it doesn't work; I replug it and it still doesn't work. ALFA USB WiFi in the port above it is working fine though. Nothing related to this shows up in the Linux dmesg output. I plug it into another of the 5 Gbps ports, one part of the pair below the ethernet port and it works immediately and it shows up in the dmesg output. So much for the magic reliability of these supposedly directly-to-the-CPU ports. I don't know what the f is wrong with this system/platform but I am not amused (and to be clear this is on the latest 1.2.0.7 AGESA from May 2022; no OC, no XMP even and you can see my PSU and RAM in my system specs).










During my trip to the UEFI, I saw that there are also USB configuration settings to enable/disable 3.1 gen1 and gen2, which are currently both set to auto. I wonder if I should try disabling gen2.


----------



## Chomiq (Oct 14, 2022)

The King said:


> Yes because tCWL need to be 16 it wont boot with CWL 10 and low RDWR like 8 or 9
> 
> This is Micron RAM runing CL 16 CWL16 and RDWR 8. Your Samsung B-die RAM should do much better timmings than this.
> What voltage are you running? At least 1.45V?
> View attachment 265282


Hijacked your settings again. Previously been using your 3600 CL14 profile since we have basically the same kits of Micron E-die DR. This one allowed me to finally achieve stability on 1900 FCLK. Thanks! Latency in Aida64 is at around 57.3 ns, with reads at 54700 MB/s. It passed full run of TestMem5 with Extreme @anta777. No WHEA errors, no crashes when gaming.


----------



## Kissamies (Oct 14, 2022)

Alright so it was NOT because of the voltages as some crackling was still present. Oh boy as I tried LatencyMon and some googling, looks like disabling HPET finally did something.

Before disabling HPET, the bars went red (hella high) from time to time, right after the program recognized a crackling in the audio. I guess I can finally call this resolved (with auto voltages & PBO +200). Maybe I can now fine-tune the RAM back to 3466 on next boot.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 14, 2022)

Goddamn
Moved my 5800x to the ITX system, and it refuses to post with XMP.
The infamously shitty corsair LPX strikes again... That ram is gunna go to my x370 system if it wont behave
Edit: 1.1v didnt fix it, wow this RAM really loves to disapoint. It worked on the 2700x, but had issues on the 1400 and 1700 back in the day, too.



Lenne said:


> Alright so it was NOT because of the voltages as some crackling was still present. Oh boy as I tried LatencyMon and some googling, looks like disabling HPET finally did something.
> 
> Before disabling HPET, the bars went red (hella high) from time to time, right after the program recognized a crackling in the audio. I guess I can finally call this resolved (with auto voltages & PBO +200). Maybe I can now fine-tune the RAM back to 3466 on next boot.
> 
> ...


HPET is off by default in most AMD BIOS, might explain why you've got it and most people dont? glad you found it, HPET is seriously old and problematic


----------



## The King (Oct 14, 2022)

@Mussels  1.1V VSOC? Sometimes  XMP can fail to boot @ 1.35V increasing VDIMM to 1.36V-1.4V can help.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 14, 2022)

Yep swapped from the LPX to the vengeance pro - exact same timings mind you - and insta booted. Didnt even notice i'd changed RAM, and booted with the settings the LPX failed to run at.


I'll have to check the SPD and XMP settings for the secondary timings and see if they're too tight or something, and if i can edit them...



The King said:


> @Mussels  1.1V VSOC? Sometimes  XMP can fail to boot @ 1.35V increasing VDIMM to 1.36V-1.4V can help.


1.10 and 1.20 didnt work either, the LPX ram has broken XMP settings for ryzen, always has. It's from the early days when it had its shittiest zen compatibility.

So i can see this myself later:
The working vengeance pro:
3200
16-18-18-36
Trc 75
Trfc560


----------



## Braegnok (Oct 14, 2022)

Psychoholic said:


> I agree, i expected a bumpy ride as well but yeah, constant BSODS are a no go.
> There have been lots of reports of random BSODs on 22H2 (Regardless of platform) so i just tried to install windows 11 22H1, it didn't even make it through the installer without a "Critical_Structure_Corruption" BSOD.
> Windows 10, for whatever reason is fine so far.
> 
> ...


That's good to hear Windows 10, is working fine so far on your system.

I have been running Ghost Spectre Windows 11 Superlite 21H2-64-bit (Stable Build) 22000.194 on X670E Gene, 7950X with no issues now since installing last week. 

I wasn't having random BSODs on Windows 11 22H1,.. that would be vary frustrating. I loaded Ghost Spectre Superlite to avoid/remove all the useless features, options running in the background on original Windows 11 22H1.


----------



## Dr. Dro (Oct 14, 2022)

Braegnok said:


> That's good to hear Windows 10, is working fine so far on your system.
> 
> I have been running Ghost Spectre Windows 11 Superlite 21H2-64-bit (Stable Build) 22000.194 on X670E Gene, 7950X with no issues now since installing last week. https://tech-latest.com/ghost-spectre-windows-11/
> 
> I wasn't having random BSODs on Windows 11 22H1,.. that would be vary frustrating. I loaded Ghost Spectre Superlite to avoid/remove all the useless features, options running in the background on original Windows 11 22H1.



What's the point of running a heavily modified third party Windows image on such high end specs? I just don't get it. The things that modified image removes do not even remotely weigh on a strong machine such as yours, if anything, they just break numerous functionality and make the OS significantly less reliable. I just don't understand the appeal.


----------



## Braegnok (Oct 14, 2022)

I have Windows 11 Pro 22H1 installed as my daily driver OS.

I'm simply testing the Superlite Ghost Build,.. I installed it in a VM for testing.

I enjoy running benchmarks with Ghost Build vs OEM Build.

It's all about having fun, playing around with systems. We seem to get too serious with windows these days.


----------



## Kissamies (Oct 14, 2022)

Mussels said:


> HPET is off by default in most AMD BIOS, might explain why you've got it and most people dont? glad you found it, HPET is seriously old and problematic


I still get few spikes on LatencyMon from time to time, and now they're coming from Nvidia drivers. I'll try few different drivers, but the audio crackling isn't a problem anymore. I've heard only few snaps from time to time, and I guess that after I find a better driver than 517.48, the problem is probably gone.


----------



## mplayerMuPDF (Oct 14, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Goddamn
> Moved my 5800x to the ITX system, and it refuses to post with XMP.
> The infamously shitty corsair LPX strikes again... That ram is gunna go to my x370 system if it wont behave
> Edit: 1.1v didnt fix it, wow this RAM really loves to disapoint. It worked on the 2700x, but had issues on the 1400 and 1700 back in the day, too.
> ...


ok so can someone explain what this mysterious "HPET" is?



Dr. Dro said:


> What's the point of running a heavily modified third party Windows image on such high end specs? I just don't get it. The things that modified image removes do not even remotely weigh on a strong machine such as yours, if anything, they just break numerous functionality and make the OS significantly less reliable. I just don't understand the appeal.


And that is why you run Linux  My ultra lightweight Linux setup will almost certainly put that custom Windows image to shame and yet it is very reliable and stable.


----------



## Psychoholic (Oct 14, 2022)

Braegnok said:


> That's good to hear Windows 10, is working fine so far on your system.
> 
> I have been running Ghost Spectre Windows 11 Superlite 21H2-64-bit (Stable Build) 22000.194 on X670E Gene, 7950X with no issues now since installing last week. https://tech-latest.com/ghost-spectre-windows-11/
> 
> I wasn't having random BSODs on Windows 11 22H1,.. that would be vary frustrating. I loaded Ghost Spectre Superlite to avoid/remove all the useless features, options running in the background on original Windows 11 22H1.



Been pondering what would make windows 10 stable and windows 11 BSOD in the first 5 mins of boot.

I have the 7950X up and running sitting on a motherboard box, running on the IGPU, and a SATA SSD.
Fresh install of Windows 11 22H2 is running and so far stable, although it hasn't been THAT long, maybe an hour.
I will slowly begin adding things (2 X 980 Pros, 3080, Etc) to see if/when it starts crashing.

although, the 3080 is in my alder lake rig at the moment.


----------



## mplayerMuPDF (Oct 14, 2022)

Psychoholic said:


> Been pondering what would make windows 10 stable and windows 11 BSOD in the first 5 mins of boot.
> 
> I have the 7950X up and running sitting on a motherboard box, running on the IGPU, and a SATA SSD.
> Fresh install of Windows 11 22H2 is running and so far stable, although it hasn't been THAT long, maybe an hour.
> ...


Something TPM (2.0) related? New instruction set extensions that are only supported in W11? Of course, it could also just be some random instruction pattern/idiom that triggers an erratum or microcode bug.


----------



## Psychoholic (Oct 14, 2022)

mplayerMuPDF said:


> Something TPM (2.0) related? New instruction set extensions that are only supported in W11? Of course, it could also just be some random instruction pattern/idiom that triggers an erratum or microcode bug.



That did cross my mind, as one of the main differences between win 10 and 11.  
The board has sat on my kitchen table with nothing plugged in, no power and cmos battery out for over 24 hours, maybe that reset or cleared something out.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 15, 2022)

Lenne said:


> I still get few spikes on LatencyMon from time to time, and now they're coming from Nvidia drivers. I'll try few different drivers, but the audio crackling isn't a problem anymore. I've heard only few snaps from time to time, and I guess that after I find a better driver than 517.48, the problem is probably gone.


I get the nvidia spikes too, especially when resolutions or refresh rates are changed (games starting)



mplayerMuPDF said:


> ok so can someone explain what this mysterious "HPET" is?


an old software timer
The HPET bug: What it is and what it isn't - overclockers.at
How To Improve Gaming Performance By Disabling HPET Settings? (silicophilic.com)

screenshots in the first link show HPET running every 24Hz and disabled every 10Hz



Mussels said:


> So i can see this myself later:
> The working vengeance pro:
> 3200
> 16-18-18-36
> ...



Running the PC with one stick of each set works


Samsung (bad)                                                                                                                Hynix (good)








Anyone got clues what i might be missing, or other stats to look up?
It's insane that mixing one of each works perfectly but just the samsung chips doesnt (only in XMP) which implies somethings wrong with the XMP settings


The XMP timings are 100% identical.
They are both single rank
Both 1.35v

The only thing that stands out, is that the samsung memory ranges from CL9 to C16, while the hynix ranges from CL7 to CL24 - but that should not affect the XMP profile at all

OH HO HO, WELL HELLO THERE
Good old XMP editor immediately found corrupt SPD data!


... shit how many people have faulty SPD/XMP data and blame the CPU/mobo etc?








Wait it thinks the hynix is the corrupt one? Le wha?
Edit: RGB related error

Edit 2: and now with changing nothing, the LPX ram is working at XMP speeds??!?


----------



## freeagent (Oct 15, 2022)

Mussels said:


> It's insane that mixing one of each works perfectly but just the samsung chips doesnt (only in XMP) which implies somethings wrong with the XMP settings


Corsair is weird sometimes. I have two sets of Corsair DDR2 that work great in pairs, but absolutely will not run together in two pairs.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 15, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Corsair is weird sometimes. I have two sets of Corsair DDR2 that work great in pairs, but absolutely will not run together in two pairs.


That's usually the memory controller and extra ranks
This is just bizarre because the RAM refused to post for a good 4+ hours and now today it's working perfectly, but ONLY after mixing RGB and non RGB for that one boot.
There's a chance i loaded optimised defaults in the BIOS at some point and that is what fixed it, i THINK i tried it early on but may not have

It's all good now, so i've got:

(x570) 5800x3D + 3090 + 64GB 3933
(B450 ITX) 5800x + 1070Ti + 16GB 3200 Samsung
(x370) 3700x +1080 + 16GB Hynix

the 1070ti and 1080 are so close in performance i cant be assed swapping them between systems, but i may later on.
I'll have to see if either of those boards will OC the samsung LPX ram, i have low hopes.


The ITX rig is going to be getting a clean OS and set up as a VR gaming PC, I guess. It hasnt been used much for a while.


----------



## The King (Oct 15, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Wait it thinks the hynix is the corrupt one? Le wha?
> Edit: RGB related error
> 
> Edit 2: and now with changing nothing, the LPX ram is working at XMP speeds??!?


Many times when the board trains on AUTO / XMP  and you have RAM that randomly boots or fails.
Take note of what ProcODT is used with Zentimings when it does boot and set that manually in the BIOS. This sometimes helps with boot issues.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 15, 2022)

Braegnok said:


> That's good to hear Windows 10, is working fine so far on your system.



On that note, I understand the significant value behind using a slim Windows install, but we aren't too much a fan of linking to these 3rd party modded ISOs. Just the way we've always treated this stuff in the past. Rest of the message gets the point across well.


----------



## Kissamies (Oct 15, 2022)

Mussels said:


> I get the nvidia spikes too, especially when resolutions or refresh rates are changed (games starting)
> 
> 
> an old software timer
> ...


Though the audio crackling seems to be gone now, so this is fine. Just weird that I didn't have any problems with the same hardware but with my previous B550M Aorus Elite board. Maybe it had HPET disabled, not gonna check though as it's in its box already.


----------



## Dr. Dro (Oct 15, 2022)

mplayerMuPDF said:


> And that is why you run Linux  My ultra lightweight Linux setup will almost certainly put that custom Windows image to shame and yet it is very reliable and stable.



My thoughts exactly...



freeagent said:


> Corsair is weird sometimes. I have two sets of Corsair DDR2 that work great in pairs, but absolutely will not run together in two pairs.



Corsair does something extremely problematic, especially considering how distribution chains work. They release multiple different memory sticks under the exact same SKU name, and change the "version" of the SKU to distinguish between what type of memory IC that particular unit carries. Mixing and matching these, even if they are externally and otherwise physically identical, has serious implications to the performance and stability, because different ICs respond differently to timings, voltages, etc. - to the point that both kits will probably never work together well.

I have a quick-list saved here that someone posted on a Discord server I used to participate in to decode these, I can't speak for its accuracy, though - some revisions tend to be rare and data on them is muddy. It could be useful, so I am sharing:


```
Corsair DDR4 revision list:

Micron
3.20 Micron 4Gbit Rev. A
3.21 Micron 4Gbit Rev. B
3.22 Micron 4Gbit Rev. E
3.22 Micron 4Gbit Rev. F
3.31 Micron assortment (Rev. B E, H J or D)
3.32 Micron 8Gbit Rev. H
3.33 Micron 8Gbit Rev. D
3.34 Micron 8Gbit Rev. E
3.40 Micron 16Gbit Rev. B
3.43 Micron 16Gbit Rev. E
3.44 Micron 16Gbit Rev. B

Samsung
4.14 Samsung 4Gbit D-die
4.23 Samsung 4Gbit D-die
4.24 Samsung 4Gbit E-die
4.31 Samsung 8Gbit B-die
4.32 Samsung 8Gbit C-die
4.33 Samsung 8Gbit D-die
4.34 Samsung 8Gbit E-die
4.40 Samsung 16Gbit A-die
4.40 Samsung 16Gbit A-die
4.41 Samsung 16Gbit B-die
4.49 Samsung 16Gbit M-die

Hynix
5.20 Hynix 4Gbit AFR
5.21 Hynix 4Gbit BJR
5.22 Hynix 4Gbit CJR
5.29 Hynix 4Gbit MFR
5.30 Hynix 8Gbit AFR
5.31 Hynix 8Gbit BFR
5.32 Hynix 8Gbit CJR
5.33 Hynix 8Gbit DJR
5.34 Hynix 8Gbit EJR
5.38 Hynix 8Gbit JJR
5.39 Hynix 8Gbit MFR
5.49 Hynix 16Gbit MJR
```

You should be able to see which version your particular memory sticks are by looking at the label imprinted on each of the them, here's an example from an old kit I have around:


----------



## Kissamies (Oct 15, 2022)

Looks like my system just didn't like the newer 517.48 drivers. Went back to 511.79 and not a single problem with audio when I played some Fallout 4. On the newer ones, there was crackling from time to time.

I hope that this is finally 100% working like it's supposed to.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 15, 2022)

Just wondering if 550w is enough to drive a 1080Ti with a fully loaded AM4 setup?


----------



## Kissamies (Oct 15, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Just wondering if 550w is enough to drive a 1080Ti with a fully loaded AM4 setup?


What I've been monitoring, on the worst case the card takes like about 325W max with max vcore from Afterburner. If I leave it at stock, it's not draining even 300W. And well, this is pretty full loaded, just not moar cores than six. 

I remember running a R9 290 with a 430W unit several years ago, 1080 Ti is actually pretty tame compared to it as it doesn't have similar power spikes etc.

edit: and the PSU isn't even an year old.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 15, 2022)

Thats not too bad, I thought the Ti would be a little beastlier. Thats about what my 3070Ti does. ~325w give or take a few.


----------



## Kissamies (Oct 15, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Thats not too bad, I thought the Ti would be a little beastlier. Thats about what my 3070Ti does. ~325w give or take a few.


Well, Pascal is still said to be the probably most efficient GPU family so I'm actually not that surprised.


----------



## Dr. Dro (Oct 15, 2022)

Lenne said:


> Looks like my system just didn't like the newer 517.48 drivers. Went back to 511.79 and not a single problem with audio when I played some Fallout 4. On the newer ones, there was crackling from time to time.
> 
> I hope that this is finally 100% working like it's supposed to.



522.25/RTX 4090 launch drivers have been working well on my end. Apex is running particularly good. Worth it try.


----------



## Kissamies (Oct 15, 2022)

Dr. Dro said:


> 522.25/RTX 4090 launch drivers have been working well on my end. Apex is running particularly good. Worth it try.


Well, I'll stay with these for a while as I'm pretty sure that Pascal doesn't get any optimizations anymore


----------



## mplayerMuPDF (Oct 15, 2022)

I made some changes to my UEFI settings again yesterday. I noticed that STIBP and IOMMU, which are important security features, are turned off by default. Later I coincidentally read that someone with an AM3+ (Vishera) setup enabled IOMMU to resolve USB issues, so maybe it will help. I have also turned off USB 3.1 gen2. However, I read the entire dmesg output yesterday and I noticed this message:
"[    1.346920] usb: port power management may be unreliable". I remember seeing it years ago, not long after I had built this system. I do not remember what AGESA and Linux kernel etc that was on. I also do not know if it was also present before I changed the settings yesterday. I should probably at least try enabling gen2 again and see if it goes away. But overall it seems that Linux is definitely aware of this system having USB issues.

This brings me to something else: I do not have time for the next couple of months to make a major change in my setup (will have some time during the holidays) and I want to see if these different UEFI settings perhaps finally resolve my USB issues but I am seriously thinking of dismantling this system at this point because I have really had it and would rather put the cash into something else. Some months ago I was given a Bristol Ridge EliteBook with broken (internal) keyboard (but otherwise in excellent condition) by a family member to sell (and keep the proceeds). I have had zero luck trying to sell it on Craigslist so now I am thinking I may keep it and use it as a desktop replacement (the same way I was using my Kaveri-based EliteBook 745 G2 before I built this system) for the forseeable future. It has the highest-end APU that was available (A12-9800P), DDR4, an M.2 NVMe SSD slot and M.2 2230 WiFi card slot. So I am thinking that this could be a pretty decent system even if it lacks the raw CPU power of my Ryzen desktop (which I, to be honest, rarely use). If I dismantle this AM4 system, I will sell the CPU (+cooler), motherboard and case but I will mothball my Seasonic, Crucial DDR4 and Radeon WX2100 for a future system (even if that becomes just an HDD/optical disc drive rig based on some cheap, old Intel platform). So I guess I may be leaving this club in the near future. Who knows, I might return in a couple years with a Ryzen Embedded based system. I do not see myself ever buying into AM5, to be honest, but maybe that will change. Ironically, desktop Bristol Ridge is also AM4 (of course, the EliteBook is FP4 though).


----------



## Psychoholic (Oct 16, 2022)

This is getting humorous.
My system (Asus X670E, 7950X) has been stable once again, 32 hours or so now.
....Until i went into bios and changed fan curves for case fans, all i did was change them from "Standard" to "Turbo", then BSOD hell again, random different BSODS.
Go back into bios, change the fans back to "standard" and its stable again.


----------



## Super Firm Tofu (Oct 16, 2022)

Psychoholic said:


> This is getting humorous.
> My system (Asus X670E, 7950X) has been stable once again, 32 hours or so now.
> ....Until i went into bios and changed fan curves for case fans, all i did was change them from "Standard" to "Turbo", then BSOD hell again, random different BSODS.
> Go back into bios, change the fans back to "standard" and its stable again.



Well, that's a new one.  I'm not familiar with Asus, but does the fan curve setting change anything else like PBO settings?

-------------

On an unrelated topic, does anyone with Zen 4 see idle temps like these?  With this setup, I've never been under 43c idle.  Same case, same cooler, same ambient saw 29c with Alder Lake, and 33c with Zen 3.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 16, 2022)

Super Firm Tofu said:


> Well, that's a new one.  I'm not familiar with Asus, but does the fan curve setting change anything else like PBO settings?
> 
> -------------
> 
> ...



Interesting that Tctl/Tdie removed decimal point accuracy... that's a first for Ryzen I think. 

Tctl/Tdie is a hotspot sensor, it looks like it might be tracking your IO die temps. Hot diggity that's a hot piece of silicon, undeniably hotter than Matisse and Vermeer. Hell'd freeze over before I saw 50C on 2CCD.


----------



## Dr. Dro (Oct 16, 2022)

Super Firm Tofu said:


> Well, that's a new one.  I'm not familiar with Asus, but does the fan curve setting change anything else like PBO settings?
> 
> -------------
> 
> ...



My guess is a combination of the smaller node + aggressive clocks + very early, thoroughly unoptimized and buggy AGESA that would make your temps worse, but as long as the maximum temperatures are within operating spec I don't think it's cause for alarm.


----------



## Super Firm Tofu (Oct 16, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Interesting that Tctl/Tdie removed decimal point accuracy... that's a first for Ryzen I think.
> 
> Tctl/Tdie is a hotspot sensor, it looks like it might be tracking your IO die temps. Hot diggity that's a hot piece of silicon, undeniably hotter than Matisse and Vermeer. Hell'd freeze over before I saw 50C on 2CCD.



Oh, sorry, that's my bad.  I removed the decimals for OSD use and never fixed.






Yeah, core and L3 are fine.  It's just working my OCD.  Package power at idle is ~22w so that seems lower, at least from memory, than Vermeer.




Dr. Dro said:


> My guess is a combination of the smaller node + aggressive clocks + very early, thoroughly unoptimized and buggy AGESA that would make your temps worse, but as long as the maximum temperatures are within operating spec I don't think it's cause for alarm.



Could be.  That's why I was hoping for someone with Zen 4 to confirm if they were seeing the same thing.


----------



## Psychoholic (Oct 16, 2022)

Super Firm Tofu said:


> Oh, sorry, that's my bad.  I removed the decimals for OSD use and never fixed.
> 
> View attachment 265660
> 
> ...



I See the same thing on my 7950x.
IIRC Tctl contains some sort of offset, or atleast it used to in 1st gen Ryzen.
Not sure why CPU die would be much higher than core temps, other that some possible misreporting.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 16, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Hell'd freeze over before I saw 50C on 2CCD.


Nahh its no problem. They are fine at 80 a piece


----------



## Psychoholic (Oct 17, 2022)

Figured I would check out ECO Mode on the 7950X and I am impressed with the efficiency.
This was in ECO mode (105W) Max of 145W including Core+Soc+Misc.

Cinebench 34675 (ECO Mode) Max 69C
Cinebench 38244 (Default) Max 95C

Of course clocks in gaming aren't affected at all as they never reach the 105W anyway.

EDIT: this is on a moderately sized air cooler (Noctua U12A Chromax)


----------



## Super Firm Tofu (Oct 17, 2022)

It seems to me that AMD missed a huge opportunity by not releasing Zen 4 at the previous Zen 3 power limits and offering a one click '*RAGE* *Mode™*' with the increased power limits. The masses would have ate that up.


----------



## Psychoholic (Oct 17, 2022)

Super Firm Tofu said:


> It seems to me that AMD missed a huge opportunity by not releasing Zen 4 at the previous Zen 3 power limits and offering a one click '*RAGE* *Mode™*' with the increased power limits. The masses would have ate that up.



Agreed, Kind of like RAGE mode they intoduced with radeon 6000 GPUs.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 18, 2022)

Dr. Dro said:


> My thoughts exactly...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats a fantastic little cheat sheet for corsair


The asus B450 system just settled in after the mixed memory and everything worked perfectly, the corrupt SPD timings is an unfixable bug that doesn't really affect anything - it's part of how they first implemented their RGB lighting and it had glitches with some RGB software



Psychoholic said:


> This is getting humorous.
> My system (Asus X670E, 7950X) has been stable once again, 32 hours or so now.
> ....Until i went into bios and changed fan curves for case fans, all i did was change them from "Standard" to "Turbo", then BSOD hell again, random different BSODS.
> Go back into bios, change the fans back to "standard" and its stable again.


Are you overloading any fan headers? Could something be drawing too much power from the board fan headers like a splitter or passively powered hub?



Super Firm Tofu said:


> It seems to me that AMD missed a huge opportunity by not releasing Zen 4 at the previous Zen 3 power limits and offering a one click '*RAGE* *Mode™*' with the increased power limits. The masses would have ate that up.


Yes!
Eco, Standard, RAGE.

Bring back the old slogan of theirs and give users a choice, letting them pick what they want from the setup.



Psychoholic said:


> Figured I would check out ECO Mode on the 7950X and I am impressed with the efficiency.
> This was in ECO mode (105W) Max of 145W including Core+Soc+Misc.
> 
> Cinebench 34675 (ECO Mode) Max 69C
> ...


That's what i wanted to see, and i'm annoyed reviews never cover it.

Hopefully w1zz can, but his level of testing is damned time consuming - and worth waiting to see if AGESA updates come out, before wasting that time.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 18, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Nahh its no problem. They are fine at 80 a piece



I should've been clearer - IO die temps, so 80C would be *serious *cause for concern


----------



## Psychoholic (Oct 18, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Are you overloading any fan headers? Could something be drawing too much power from the board fan headers like a splitter or passively powered hub?




It seems to be rock solid stable now, not sure why exactly but changing the fan type from "Auto" to "PWM" seems to have fixed it.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 19, 2022)

Psychoholic said:


> It seems to be rock solid stable now, not sure why exactly but changing the fan type from "Auto" to "PWM" seems to have fixed it.


Whats connected to the headers?

Be worth finding out of this is an electrical issue or a BIOS issue, if nothing else


----------



## Psychoholic (Oct 19, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Whats connected to the headers?
> 
> Be worth finding out of this is an electrical issue or a BIOS issue, if nothing else



4 X Noctua NF-A12 case fans (2 on a Noctua Y Splitter, 2 individuals) 
The fans on the CPU Cooler (They are the same fans) are still on auto..  I'm thinking its just some weird early bios issue.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 20, 2022)

Yeah they shouldn't be drawing too much power, if it was 3+ on a header then maaaaaybe


----------



## Chomiq (Oct 20, 2022)

My co-worker's Ryzen build is throwing "Boot failure detected" 9 out of 10 times. So far everything is pointing to something being terribly wrong with his B550 AORUS PRO AC. He tried swapping everything BUT the mobo and issues still persisted.
Based on the debug LEDs he either gets a CPU or RAM failure during boot.
He updated the board to latest BIOS - F15d but it made no difference.
Worst thing is that even if he manages to send it for RMA they'll probably boot it once, see that it works and call it a day.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 20, 2022)

Tried benching the differences with SR DR and MR setups

failed since tomb raiders DRM shafted me

Having fun seeing what i can do with 80GB of RAM tho









Can you REALLY be satisfied without overclocking the shit out of everything all at once?

80GB 
3800MHz or MT/s or giggleshits or whatever


----------



## Nordic (Oct 22, 2022)

I am strongly considering a side grade from my 5950x to a 5800x3d. A 50% boost in FPS in certain cpu bound games that I play is hard to ignore. For those who have used both zen and zen3d, how has your experience been with the 3d chips?


----------



## mechtech (Oct 22, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Goddamn
> Moved my 5800x to the ITX system, and it refuses to post with XMP.
> The infamously shitty corsair LPX strikes again... That ram is gunna go to my x370 system if it wont behave
> Edit: 1.1v didnt fix it, wow this RAM really loves to disapoint. It worked on the 2700x, but had issues on the 1400 and 1700 back in the day, too.
> ...


hmmmm  I should check this, I thought it was enabled..........
Edit
Yep
Makes me wonder if I should review this thread…. Or is there a sticky for recommended zen bios settings??


----------



## freeagent (Oct 22, 2022)

I plugged my 5900X back in to play around for a couple of days. Great CPU. Fast as feck that’s for sure. But I think I’m going to plug my X3D back in. Surprising what that little CPU can do.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 23, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I plugged my 5900X back in to play around for a couple of days. Great CPU. Fast as feck that’s for sure. But I think I’m going to plug my X3D back in. Surprising what that little CPU can do.


Can you get 2000 fabric clock and 4000 memory,?, I did but nudged it down.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 23, 2022)

Nordic said:


> I am strongly considering a side grade from my 5950x to a 5800x3d. A 50% boost in FPS in certain cpu bound games that I play is hard to ignore. For those who have used both zen and zen3d, how has your experience been with the 3d chips?


FPS goes whirrrrrr

0.1% drops are basically gone


----------



## freeagent (Oct 23, 2022)

TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> Can you get 2000 fabric clock and 4000 memory,?, I did but nudged it down.


I can do it, but it’s not stable. 1900 1:1 2x or 4x sticks on 5900X, on 5800X3D I can do 1933 1:1 with 2x or 4x sticks. Can do 2K on X3D as well but not stable. On 5600X it is stable at 2K 1:1, and has been to 2133 1:1.. little beasty


----------



## Super Firm Tofu (Oct 23, 2022)

Nordic said:


> I am strongly considering a side grade from my 5950x to a 5800x3d. A 50% boost in FPS in certain cpu bound games that I play is hard to ignore. For those who have used both zen and zen3d, how has your experience been with the 3d chips?



In my experience from strictly a gaming perspective, the X3D is hands-down the better choice.  My 5950x is in the box on the shelf (for now - I'm having a hard time letting it go for the $400 it's worth).

Three games where the X3D made an immediate obvious difference were Guild Wars 2, Euro Truck Sim., and American Truck Sim..  Lows in busy areas for GW2 went from messy 40-50fps up to 70-90fps.  Same situation with both Truck Sims.  Cities/Towns with traffic went from 40's into the 60-70's.

The other side of that is if you have anything that needs serious multi-core performance, the X3D is going to be disappointing.  Rather than a side grade (from a 5950x), it's probably accurate to say it's a big upgrade for games, and a sizeable downgrade for most everything else.  I'd say roughly 5700x performance.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 23, 2022)

I've mostly been playing DRG and SC2, so not super demanding games despite DRG being DX12 with everything but RTX


And it's been great. SC2 doesnt lag at all, even late game in the coop missions - things would always crawl for everyone be it AMD or intel when 10 bajillion units go onscreen, but that's simply gone now 

And DRG is amazing with zero lag spikes. Seeing 4K 200 and maintaining it dip free until things get hectic when its GPU limited thanks to the undervolt and sitting at 4k150 is just amazing.
It's the little things you cant do with stutter, getting timing right for jumps, headshots or even avoding a misclick is a LOT harder when things are stuttery so you dont even try - you just learn to accept 'this isn't possible'

and then in DRG i'm at 3x the amount of kills for everyone else because i can simply outshoot and outreact them. I can risk more dangerous ideas, jumps and shots that would be near impossible with any type of delay 

If you thought that the x3D could take 10ms off your network ping people would go nuts for it - reducing delays *anywhere* in the entire system benefits gaming


----------



## Nordic (Oct 23, 2022)

Super Firm Tofu said:


> In my experience from strictly a gaming perspective, the X3D is hands-down the better choice.  My 5950x is in the box on the shelf (for now - I'm having a hard time letting it go for the $400 it's worth).


I still have my 3900x as well. I am thinking I could downgrade back to the 3900x, sell 5950x, then buy 5800x3d all for the glorious FPS.


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## freeagent (Oct 23, 2022)

It really is a nice CPU if you don't need the horsepower 12 and 16 cores provide. And because you can't really overclock, you will end up with a very quiet system. I find it to be a very easy CPU to cool for 99% of the tasks it will see. Of course, there is always that 1% that will push it, but almost no one ever goes there.


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## Nordic (Oct 23, 2022)

freeagent said:


> It really is a nice CPU if you don't need the horsepower 12 and 16 cores provide. And because you can't really overclock, you will end up with a very quiet system. I find it to be a very easy CPU to cool for 99% of the tasks it will see. Of course, there is always that 1% that will push it, but almost no one ever goes there.


I have a 5950x almost entirely for BOINC. I don't need 16 cores. I like to generate big numbers. A 5800x3d does have a significant performance edge in certain games. Even 50% more FPS.


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## dont whant to set it"' (Oct 23, 2022)

I expect the AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D to be a gimp(le2: /thorn) in benchmark charts for both camps , for at least one more gen of cpus to be released by the main two camps*. * In some gaming benchmarks/usage in games/odd computational thingy.

le1:
Started an AM4 build with the Ryzen 3 3300X, onto a Ryzen 7 5800X(witch I fixed till it was broken), now the 3D suffix variant. Gaming wise I had headaches trying to game the same with a i7 7700K(backup rig) when I still had the 5800x in good working order.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 23, 2022)

Nordic said:


> I have a 5950x almost entirely for BOINC. I don't need 16 cores. I like to generate big numbers. A 5800x3d does have a significant performance edge in certain games. Even 50% more FPS.



In terms of gaming performance you already know what to expect. Though, I will say, the performance really exposes those games that are truly terribly made (that will stutter even with a 5800X3D). With bigger app launches (e.g. Photoshop or Premiere, not Windows Explorer), the 5800X3D can feel a bit slower due to the loss of 500MHz+ of boost. In general use it's not exactly mindblowing if you're coming from a 5800X/5900X/5950X that can do 5GHz. 

If you do plan on doing all-core with the 5800X3D on an air cooler, you probably will want to limit power and set Curve Optimizer (the latter of which doesn't do anything for nT temperatures on other Zen 3) because they will bring temps down significantly. Chances are even with a dual tower you will hit 90C out of the box on all-core. 

But because it's all locked, you can either use software (PBO2 Tuner) and manually set your settings on each boot/make a Task Scheduler task for boot, or make/use a modded AGESA 1207 BIOS if one exists for your board. Otherwise your settings all go back to stock upon reboot.


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## Mussels (Oct 24, 2022)

The main key to the x3D is that you dont need new hardware, and the only times the newer CPU's are surpassing it are:

200FPS+ (or even higher)
200W+


Seeing the x3D gaming at high FPS with no lows, and at ~40W is something these new CPU's just dont approach


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## Nordic (Oct 24, 2022)

One game I play has poor fps no matter the hardware. It is especially cpu bound. Many players are reporting massive gains. Intel and amd's latest cannot compete. For example:


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## tabascosauz (Oct 24, 2022)

Note to self...........don't do as reviewers do, and swap Ryzen CPUs without giving it a clean install..........

Been trying to chase down an intermittent (every 5-10 seconds or so) stutter in most my games ever since I made the 5800X3D swap. But the real motivation came from getting the MWII campaign early access yesterday and finding that the game ran like complete shit for some reason, tearing my hair out trying to solve the stuttering.

Clean installed 22H2 today. MWII is smooth|as|butter. Still have yet to test the other games. It looks like I need to do Timespy again. 

I don't run gunk like iCUE or CAM. I don't run RGB software. I don't run Armoury Crate. Not sure what was causing this crap. Reinstalling games didn't help. Different drivers didn't help. Changing up my CO didn't help. B-die wasn't the culprit either. Board wasn't the culprit either.

It just goes to show that there's more to it than benchmark scores (scored respectably in Timespy and avg fps is good in all games). I guess the real 5800X3D experience starts NOW...


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## Mussels (Oct 25, 2022)

Nordic said:


> One game I play has poor fps no matter the hardware. It is especially cpu bound. Many players are reporting massive gains. Intel and amd's latest cannot compete. For example:


It's the one example the x3D smashes ahead of everything else

I'm also seeing gains in older CPU bound titles (mostly DX9 RTS games) that understandably modern reviews dont cover


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## tabascosauz (Oct 25, 2022)

Something dropped 1.5ns off score, but I only trimmed tRFC by 5ns and dropped tRC a bit. Nothing that should account for that kind of difference. Maybe was still that old bad windows install that was holding me back.

Things look more normal now. Off to do some TM5 and superpi


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## Mussels (Oct 26, 2022)

I just moved to OpenRGB - i missed they have beta/pre-release builds and they added support for lian-li and fixed a crash bug i was experiencing, so now i'm gunna re-test with those uninstalled vs installed but quit

It's damn nice having software that lets me set all the hardware lighting profiles with a low resource footprint





Spoiler: it wasnt synapse



Is razer bad, vs all the competing softwares? No i think it's the leanest there is - but it's still behind this.



Since i dont have razer headphones etc, i dont miss anything by not having synapse installed


Lemme do a before and after with AIDA....



Before: Everything quite except their background services
L-connect 3 and razer synapse installed




L-connect removed: (basically the same - it was EXTREMELY heavy when opened upto 15% CPU but not bad when closed)




L-connect + synapse removed:





At least i can vouch for Synapse being low on resources, even fully active and running it has no performance impact. everythings within run to run variance.



Edit: Oh my TRFC is at 1064, thanks for being shite at auto detecting that one!

Time to try that out again at 1933/1866 and see if 704 still works or not (the lowest that worked on the 5800x at 1900/3800)




That helped






No clock stretching, no throttling, 4.45GHz R23 load (max speed for these)
114W is something i hope i can tweak lower, without losing performance


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## wolf (Oct 26, 2022)

3700X was my first Ryzen, moved that on for a 5900X

I've decided, and already ordered a 5800X3D now, that'll tide me over beautifully till likely Zen 5 X3D. I couldn't avoid the temptation and am really looking forward to seeing those dips smooth out.

Bonus points for 3 CPU's on the same board AMD, well done.


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## Mussels (Oct 26, 2022)

The only thing left that may hurt benchmark performance (but not gaming) is HWinfo itself - 0.6%-1% CPU spikes as it reads data.

Wolf: it went beyond 3, we had 1000, 2000, 3000 and 5000 for mainstream, as well as the G series chips
We also had the 4000 OEM only series, and if you count the less popular ones like the athlons they had quite a lot of different CPU's


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## wolf (Oct 26, 2022)

@Mussels oh absolutely, I know that some boards basically (and eventually, somewhat not without some fiasco) got support from Ryzen 1000 all the way to a 5950x or 5800X3D and everything in-between, my comment was just praising that I personally got 3 CPU's across the same X570 board.

If I had my time again though, I'd have picked an Asus or MSI board, not Gigabyte - and not bought the 5900X, I should have bought either a 5600X/5800X or waited.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 26, 2022)

wolf said:


> 3700X was my first Ryzen, moved that on for a 5900X
> 
> I've decided, and already ordered a 5800X3D now, that'll tide me over beautifully till likely Zen 5 X3D. I couldn't avoid the temptation and am really looking forward to seeing those dips smooth out.
> 
> Bonus points for 3 CPU's on the same board AMD, well done.



3700X>5900X>5800X3D good call bro, exact same over here. More and more modded 1206/1207 BIOSes being released on OCN and elsewhere now; now we got PBO and CO BIOS support on X3D for ROG, Strix and most MSI boards. I think ASRock as well. Haven't heard anything about Gigabyte yet but I'm sure someone will make one if you ask.


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## wolf (Oct 26, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> 3700X>5900X>5800X3D good call bro, exact same over here


And you found the 5900X to 5800X3D jump compelling? I was pushed over the edge because I had the itch to upgrade something, can't justify a 4090, not wanting Intel's 13th gen at the end of that CPU sockets support, and not wanting AM5 at the start of it's support - bolstered by DDR5 being expensive.

I'm not expecting night and day differences, but cancelling out dips and blips in gameplay would be amazing already, and a boost in some notoriously CPU limited/heavy games would be nice, MSFS2020 and Spiderman w/RT come to mind.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 26, 2022)

wolf said:


> And you found the 5900X to 5800X3D jump compelling? I was pushed over the edge because I had the itch to upgrade something, can't justify a 4090, not wanting Intel's 13th gen at the end of that CPU sockets support, and not wanting AM5 at the start of it's support - bolstered by DDR5 being expensive.
> 
> I'm not expecting night and day differences, but cancelling out dips and blips in gameplay would be amazing already, and a boost in some notoriously CPU limited/heavy games would be nice, MSFS2020 and Spiderman w/RT come to mind.



It really really depends on the game. Due to a couple reasons I'm still in the process of measuring the real extent of the improvement. I just clean installed again today.

I hear MSFS is one of those big jumps for the 5800X3D. So far for me War Thunder, Insurgency Sandstorm, Risk of Rain 2 have seen some big gains. Still some gains in MW and SC2 but smaller. DCS has not been an impressive showing so far, but still too early to tell. Still have to test some important titles like Arma.

Been playing MW2 campaign this week but the game is still buggy as hell, performance a far cry from MW, can't tell yet.

For me the big thing is the CPU not hogging frigging 90-140W in gaming. Usually gaming around 35-70W now. It's a big gap under load (UPS draw down from 530W+ to about 450W tops).


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## igralec84 (Oct 26, 2022)

I bought DDR5 5600 CL40 because it was in stock and around 40€ cheaper than 6000 CL36 (120€ cheaper than 6400 CL32), then set the primary timings to the ones that 6000 CL36 have (36-38-38-145) and bumped voltage from 1.25v to 1.35v and that's that? Change 8 things in BIOS manually compared to just select the EXPO profile and save 40-100€?  

Need to check if Kingston Fury Beast and Renegade use different chips, because Renegade only has CL32 at 6000 and 6400, can try those clocks and timings too just for laughs 

EDIT: tried Fury Renegade's 6000 CL32 settings 32-38-38-128 and gained 1-2% score in Passmark memory benchmark, CB23 multi, CPU-Z and Geekbench. Not sure if it's stable though, but hasn't crashed yet, maybe some 3Dmark or Forza Horizon 5 should do the trick


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## wolf (Oct 26, 2022)

@tabascosauz - much appreciated, certainly comes with many benefits and should never be a regression in games with crazy good 1% low gains and reduced power/heat.


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## Mussels (Oct 29, 2022)

wolf said:


> And you found the 5900X to 5800X3D jump compelling? I was pushed over the edge because I had the itch to upgrade something, can't justify a 4090, not wanting Intel's 13th gen at the end of that CPU sockets support, and not wanting AM5 at the start of it's support - bolstered by DDR5 being expensive.
> 
> I'm not expecting night and day differences, but cancelling out dips and blips in gameplay would be amazing already, and a boost in some notoriously CPU limited/heavy games would be nice, MSFS2020 and Spiderman w/RT come to mind.


my brother got the 5900x right before i got the x3D, for pure gaming the 3D is a no brainer. Less wattage, lower power used, colder, faster.

He does some photo editing and the 5900x still maxes out a fair bit, so it's fair to say if you do MORE than gaming - get the extra cores.


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## AusWolf (Oct 30, 2022)

Hi guys.

I'm looking at two motherboards for an AM5 build.

The Asus TUF Gaming B650M-Plus Wifi is only available on pre-order for the 16th Nov. I've used Asus TUF boards for the last couple of years. I love their robust design and easy-to-use BIOS.
My other option is the MSi Pro B650M-A Wifi which could be at my doorstep tomorrow. It's 10 quid cheaper as well, but I can't find any info on its power design and BIOS quality.
What do you guys think? Is it worth to wait 2 weeks for the Asus TUF, or am I safe with the MSi Pro? I only want to use it with a 7700X and maybe upgrade to an X3D later. I'm not shy to turn on Eco mode, either.


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## Mussels (Oct 31, 2022)

Go for whatever board has some in-depth details on the VRMs

I've been burned, and seen too many others burned by "good" brands - even my good x570 had shitty chipset cooling, while we've had some seriously amazing and seriously terrible boards from MSI launched with the same chipset


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## AusWolf (Oct 31, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Go for whatever board has some in-depth details on the VRMs
> 
> I've been burned, and seen too many others burned by "good" brands - even my good x570 had shitty chipset cooling, while we've had some seriously amazing and seriously terrible boards from MSI launched with the same chipset


Well, the Asus is definitely 14-phase. The MSi one seems to be at least 12-phase from the pictures, but with no data on the web page, I can't be sure. I couldn't find any review on it, either. I'm just wondering if it actually matters if I'm only using it with a 7700X with no overclock.


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## Mussels (Nov 1, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Well, the Asus is definitely 14-phase. The MSi one seems to be at least 12-phase from the pictures, but with no data on the web page, I can't be sure. I couldn't find any review on it, either. I'm just wondering if it actually matters if I'm only using it with a 7700X with no overclock.


MSI had that board advertised as 16 phase that turned out to be 4 phase with doublers, or something equally shitty if those numbers arent quite right
someone here on TPU had theirs go bang with a 5900x, if i can find the thread...

Edit: nope not yet, it had an unusual name which isnt helping me find it


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## tabascosauz (Nov 1, 2022)

Mussels said:


> MSI had that board advertised as 16 phase that turned out to be 4 phase with doublers, or something equally shitty if those numbers arent quite right
> someone here on TPU had theirs go bang with a 5900x, if i can find the thread...
> 
> Edit: nope not yet, it had an unusual name which isnt helping me find it



Wouldn't 16 be a quadrupler? Haven't seen those ever since Z77.

The X570 Pro Carbon was the problem child that prompted replacement by the Unify boards, but MSI hasn't slipped up since then. 4-phase with doublers into 4C024/4C029.

If anything, the Pro Carbon was just badly designed. All of MSI's non-DrMOS/SPS boards still use 4C029, it's a stout MOSFET and the 4-phase doubled or lo side doubled Vcore setup works well for all AM4 CPUs, and shouldn't have ran that hot.



AusWolf said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> I'm looking at two motherboards for an AM5 build.
> 
> ...



Since Z690 most boards have gotten rid of discretes entirely, so now you're just picking based on phase count, heatsink size, and parts.

Asus is using some midrange DrMOS parts, but the heatsink surface area looks out of this world. Asus is also spacing out the phases as is habit for them.

Can't find info on what MSI is using but all but guaranteed to still be DrMOS and I'd bet it's in the same performance class as Asus' 60A parts.

At 142W, barring unforeseeable design mishaps (eg. X570 Pro Carbon), it doesn't matter at all which board you choose. Both doubly overkill for what you use. I'd choose based on feature set and which BIOS you prefer.

I hope Asus isn't still removing BIOS settings on their TUF and Strix for no good reason.


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## AusWolf (Nov 1, 2022)

Mussels said:


> MSI had that board advertised as 16 phase that turned out to be 4 phase with doublers, or something equally shitty if those numbers arent quite right
> someone here on TPU had theirs go bang with a 5900x, if i can find the thread...
> 
> Edit: nope not yet, it had an unusual name which isnt helping me find it





tabascosauz said:


> Wouldn't 16 be a quadrupler? Haven't seen those ever since Z77.
> 
> The X570 Pro Carbon was the problem child that prompted replacement by the Unify boards, but MSI hasn't slipped up since then. 4-phase with doublers into 4C024/4C029.
> 
> ...


Thank you both!  

I'll have a think about it, but I'm more inclined to give MSi another go for now. Feature-wise, they're quite similar and I'm not planning on any OC with the 7700X. Heck, if it reaches 95 °C with my 280 mm AIO, I'll even turn on Eco mode.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 1, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Thank you both!
> 
> I'll have a think about it, but I'm more inclined to give MSi another go for now. Feature-wise, they're quite similar and I'm not planning on any OC with the 7700X. Heck, if it reaches 95 °C with my 280 mm AIO, I'll even turn on Eco mode.



Don't forget Curve Optimizer, big temp drops compared to only using power limits

But very dependent on SP, so I hope you get a good chip  Ryzen 7000 runs cool enough in everyday use (ie. not all-core) that Eco Mode is not that important


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## Mussels (Nov 1, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Wouldn't 16 be a quadrupler? Haven't seen those ever since Z77.
> 
> The X570 Pro Carbon was the problem child that prompted replacement by the Unify boards, but MSI hasn't slipped up since then. 4-phase with doublers into 4C024/4C029.
> 
> If anything, the Pro Carbon was just badly designed. All of MSI's non-DrMOS/SPS boards still use 4C029, it's a stout MOSFET and the 4-phase doubled or lo side doubled Vcore setup works well for all AM4 CPUs, and shouldn't have ran that hot.


The board in particular in that thread they didnt just list them wrong they outright lied about the amperage, brand, and number of VRMs on the board

It was MSI's low point, and what convinced me to absolutely check any board in detail before buying from then on since it was a premium chipset (x570) they flaked out on


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## AusWolf (Nov 1, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Don't forget Curve Optimizer, big temp drops compared to only using power limits
> But very dependent on SP, so I hope you get a good chip  Ryzen 7000 runs cool enough in everyday use (ie. not all-core) that Eco Mode is not that important
> 
> View attachment 268091


That's impressive at only 61 °C! Only if I wasn't so lazy to tinker with settings.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 1, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> That's impressive at only 61 °C! Only if I wasn't so lazy to tinker with settings.



I think it should be realistic for you too. That review was on a 360mm AIO, but neither at 88W nor 142W is there enough power draw for the extra rad space to make a real difference

If you wanna do less work, w1zz ran like a 5GHz all core OC in his review. Interesting to see that all-core OC can be viable for REDUCING thermals    Intel owners gonna lose their minds when they hear that lol


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## AusWolf (Nov 1, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> I think it should be realistic for you too. That review was on a 360mm AIO, but neither at 88W nor 142W is there enough power draw for the extra rad space to make a real difference
> 
> If you wanna do less work, w1zz ran like a 5GHz all core OC in his review. Interesting to see that all-core OC can be viable for REDUCING thermals    Intel owners gonna lose their minds when they hear that lol


Well, AMD owners lost their minds when I told them that my 11700 eats less than 60 W in most games and can be cooled with a basic top-down cooler with just a slight reduction in power limits. So, anything can happen... that's the only reason why I want that 7700X, to be fair.


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## R-T-B (Nov 1, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Well, AMD owners lost their minds when I told them that my 11700 eats less than 60 W in most games and can be cooled with a basic top-down cooler with just a slight reduction in power limits. So, anything can happen... that's the only reason why I want that 7700X, to be fair.


Pretty much all these chips are run well outside their ideal curves.  It's amazing what a little underclocking/volting can do for efficiency.


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## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 8, 2022)

Hello, I just got the Ryzen 7 5800X today! Looks good other than it looks like it's in some PBO mode, when I don't want it to be at this time. 

My heatsink is the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo V2.


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## AusWolf (Nov 8, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> Hello, I just got the Ryzen 7 5800X today! Looks good other than it looks like it's in some PBO mode, when I don't want it to be at this time.
> 
> My heatsink is the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo V2.


Welcome! 

Yeah, chiplet-based CPUs run hot. As long as it does its job without throttling, don't worry too much about it.

Speaking of temperatures, I've just got my 7700X. Now, THIS thing is hot.  Strangely enough, I can't achieve the same numbers with a 280 mm AIO that we see in the TPU test. At stock, it runs at around 4.9 GHz in Cinebench R23 all-core and gets about 18.5K points. Maybe it has something to do with my motherboard, or the fact that I haven't reinstalled Windows, yet.

I've also done some tweaking: by limiting PPT to 100 W, it runs at 4.7-4.8 GHz at 75 °C and still gets a hair above 18K points at Cinebench. Like it was said before, these modern CPUs are mini furnaces at stock, but it's so easy to tweak them to sensible uses!


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## freeagent (Nov 9, 2022)

If you are sporting the latest AGESA 1207 it really limits how much power the CPU gets, it should run cooler for you. But! That heatsink is pretty outgunned right now.. so there is that too.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 9, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> Hello, I just got the Ryzen 7 5800X today! Looks good other than it looks like it's in some PBO mode, when I don't want it to be at this time.
> 
> My heatsink is the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo V2.



Some optimal power limits and Curve Optimizer will work wonders  you're already in the 5800X thread so you already know what's up

I'm not gonna pretend my cooling setup is actually better than a 212......if I can cool a 5900X and 5800X3D, no sweat for you!


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## Mussels (Nov 9, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> Hello, I just got the Ryzen 7 5800X today! Looks good other than it looks like it's in some PBO mode, when I don't want it to be at this time.
> 
> My heatsink is the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo V2.


Not the best heatsink for these CPU's at all

Physically its big enough, but the wonky baseplate makes it possible to have shitty contact directly where you need it the most
(Not to scale or anything, but a mockup to show what i mean, with the IO die and CPU die potentially being in-between the copper heatpipes where the larger air gap is)




You may be fine, you may need to rotate the heatsink or adjust it any way you can - but definitely undervolting or limiting PPT will help massively


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## Space Lynx (Nov 9, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Don't forget Curve Optimizer, big temp drops compared to only using power limits
> 
> But very dependent on SP, so I hope you get a good chip  Ryzen 7000 runs cool enough in everyday use (ie. not all-core) that Eco Mode is not that important
> 
> View attachment 268091



Would you recommend I do a small undervolt on a 13600kf raptor lake cpu running stock? Would I see similar drops but no/minimal performance loss? How do I test this exactly, just run Cinebench, reboot, then BIOS and set an offset of negative like 0.15? then i reboot, and run cinebench again, compare temps/scores from before?



Mussels said:


> Not the best heatsink for these CPU's at all
> 
> Physically its big enough, but the wonky baseplate makes it possible to have shitty contact directly where you need it the most
> (Not to scale or anything, but a mockup to show what i mean, with the IO die and CPU die potentially being in-between the copper heatpipes where the larger air gap is)
> ...



that looks really bad... too much of a gap. yikes. not sure i would use that.



RJARRRPCGP said:


> Hello, I just got the Ryzen 7 5800X today! Looks good other than it looks like it's in some PBO mode, when I don't want it to be at this time.
> 
> My heatsink is the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo V2.



if not too late to return that heatsink, I would recommend you get the ARCTIC Freezer 34 eSports DUO, about $45. its a little more in cost, but it cools really well for the price. (its a pain to install at first, take your time with it if you go that route).


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## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 9, 2022)

Is the Wraith Prism that came with my Matisse better than that?


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## tabascosauz (Nov 9, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> Is the Wraith Prism that came with my Matisse better than that?



No, Wraith Prism is not an improvement. It's hardly an impressive cooler for its height or size (95mm), really only for its price ($0).

Just stick with what you have, it's fine. Cross that bridge if you get to it. No point trying to worry yourself over better coolers when you haven't thoroughly tested the hardware you have.

We've had people configuring a 5800X to run within the frigging Lone L5. A 212 is not the end of the world. I view 5800X and 5800X3D in the same sense - unimpressive temps regardless of what you cooler you use, until you undervolt and optimize your power limits (then both of them run great).



CallandorWoT said:


> Would you recommend I do a small undervolt on a 13600kf raptor lake cpu running stock? Would I see similar drops but no/minimal performance loss? How do I test this exactly, just run Cinebench, reboot, then BIOS and set an offset of negative like 0.15? then i reboot, and run cinebench again, compare temps/scores from before?
> 
> that looks really bad... too much of a gap. yikes. not sure i would use that.
> 
> if not too late to return that heatsink, I would recommend you get the ARCTIC Freezer 34 eSports DUO, about $45. its a little more in cost, but it cools really well for the price. (its a pain to install at first, take your time with it if you go that route).



In the Ryzen thread? ok 

I was going to say that Intel as of late has been getting harder to a big spread in core clock scaling based on # of cores loaded (iirc E-cores run off the same Vcore). As well as more granular "per-core" controls (misleading) and E-cores. I think bz was recently bitching about it and TVB on the 13900K.

But apparently the 13600K just runs 5.1 P-cores and 3.9 E-cores regardless of # cores loaded. So I imagine you can just go straight to a 5.1 OC like any ol Intel.........but if you leave E-cores enabled it may behave differently.


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## Space Lynx (Nov 9, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> No, Wraith Prism is not an improvement. It's hardly an impressive cooler for its height or size (95mm), really only for its price ($0).
> 
> Just stick with what you have, it's fine. Cross that bridge if you get to it. No point trying to worry yourself over better coolers when you haven't thoroughly tested the hardware you have.
> 
> ...



I didn't even realize what thread this was. I'm really tired at the moment.

Hmm, ok I will just leave it at stock and leave it be. Blimey, i miss the old 2500k days, everything was so much more simple. games/hardware only had 20 settings, not 120! and so on and so forth... or maybe im just getting old...


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## tabascosauz (Nov 9, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> I didn't even realize what thread this was. I'm really tired at the moment.
> 
> Hmm, ok I will just leave it at stock and leave it be. Blimey, i miss the old 2500k days, everything was so much more simple. games/hardware only had 20 settings, not 120! and so on and so forth... or maybe im just getting old...



Only thing you have to do is adjust dynamic Vcore offset right? Sounds easy enough and worth doing  I just feel like static OC is easier if it functionally is the same on 13600K

Just not sure what is best to stress test Intel these days. Ycruncher?


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 9, 2022)

It works well, but I get temps that would remind some people of Ivy Bridge! (3rd-gen Core i) More like I would expect with a Core i7 3770K, LOL.


----------



## Chomiq (Nov 9, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> It works well, but I get temps that would remind some people of Ivy Bridge! (3rd-gen Core i) More like I would expect with a Core i7 3770K, LOL.


What are the temps?


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 9, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> What temps are that then?


It shoots up to 85 C often, and briefly 86 C with Cinebench R23. Reminds me of Intel with Linpack, LOL.


----------



## Chomiq (Nov 9, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> It shoots up to 85 C often, and briefly 86 C with Cinebench R23. Reminds me of Intel with Linpack, LOL.


I'm speaking of normal use, not Cinebench runs. Unless all you do is run Cinebench all the time...


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 9, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> I'm speaking of normal use, not Cinebench runs. Unless all you do is run Cinebench all the time...


I bet it will be similar to my 6c/12t Ryzens.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 9, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> It works well, but I get temps that would remind some people of Ivy Bridge! (3rd-gen Core i) More like I would expect with a Core i7 3770K, LOL.



I don't know what to tell ya, hey at least it's not a 7700X  

Every one of these hot chips AMD has made to date (5800X, 5800X3D, entire 7000 series) can be tamed with a combination of power limits and undervolt, with same or better performance and much improved temps. Can't expect to put in zero work and get those results.

Hell, I had to put in twice the work to put a leash on the 4790K, and Ryzen's procedures are supposed to be more complicated. So get to work buddy!


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 9, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> It shoots up to 85 C often, and briefly 86 C with Cinebench R23. Reminds me of Intel with Linpack, LOL.


That's only with the default power limits. It's cool in single-threaded tasks. Better than my 5600X in low-core-count loads. Made me suspect AMD were binning the 5600Xs with lower-grade stuff, like I would expect with a Core i7 920 or of course, an FX 8320.


----------



## Kissamies (Nov 9, 2022)

Been thinking about upgrading to 5800X3D. Then I could put my current 3600 to use as a 2nd rig (X58 can retire).


----------



## Chomiq (Nov 9, 2022)

Lenne said:


> Been thinking about upgrading to 5800X3D. Then I could put my current 3600 to use as a 2nd rig (X58 can retire).


Just do it.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 9, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> that looks really bad... too much of a gap. yikes. not sure i would use that.


It's a perfect example of how one cooler can be great for one CPU design, and terrible for another
You can see how a pipe right over the entire die on an intel would be great, while possibly missing the CPU cores on a Zen CPU entirely

(From the thread in my sig, hence the text in the middle)
That's a 12/16 core CPU, the 6/8's with one less CCX would have heatpipes that dont even touch any heat generating parts of the CPU



)(


----------



## animal007uk (Nov 9, 2022)

As some of you might know i got myself many new upgrades, and today i have been doing a bit of testing with cinebench r23.

This first run is with everything at stock settings.
And the second run is with PBO turned on but with no tweaking.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 9, 2022)

animal007uk said:


> As some of you might know i got myself many new upgrades, and today i have been doing a bit of testing with cinebench r23.
> 
> This first run is with everything at stock settings.
> And the second run is with PBO turned on but with no tweaking.



Nice gains!


----------



## freeagent (Nov 9, 2022)

Lenne said:


> Been thinking about upgrading to 5800X3D. Then I could put my current 3600 to use as a 2nd rig (X58 can retire).


Honestly, any Zen 3 part is pretty good. For daily stuff they all feel the same, fast as feck


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## Kissamies (Nov 9, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Honestly, any Zen 3 pet is pretty good. For daily stuff they all fell the same, fast as feck


I just want something to hold on for a while until I upgrade to DDR5 setup


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## Mussels (Nov 10, 2022)

Lenne said:


> I just want something to hold on for a while until I upgrade to DDR5 setup


If that's many years away, then yes it's the right choice

Unless you have a 4090 chasing the high FPS value over anything else, theres nothing faster yet



animal007uk said:


> As some of you might know i got myself many new upgrades, and today i have been doing a bit of testing with cinebench r23.
> 
> This first run is with everything at stock settings.
> And the second run is with PBO turned on but with no tweaking.


The temps on that first run be glorious


I'd work on undervolting with stock limits and the curve, get the performance of the second result without the heat


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## Nordic (Nov 10, 2022)

New high score! Horribly inefficient at 170w though.


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## Mats (Nov 10, 2022)

Nordic said:


> Horribly inefficient at 170w though.


It went from first to fourth place, I wouldn't call that horrible..


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## Nordic (Nov 10, 2022)

Mats said:


> It went from first to fourth place, I wouldn't call that horrible..


Going by my own results, it is the least efficient so far.





I suspect I am measuring power usage differently than W1zzard for us to have such different values. I am using the CPU Power as shown on HWINFO which is probably less accurate for power usage, but sufficient for my purposes as long as I am consistent. These settings are ~35% less efficient than stock.


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## Mussels (Nov 10, 2022)

Nordic said:


> Going by my own results, it is the least efficient so far.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


physical measurement of the 12 pin connector, for w1zz

Personally i prefer the software readings for comparison but after some boards outright lied, fair enough


To my knowledge CPU's dont get any power from the 24 pin these days, do they?


----------



## Kissamies (Nov 10, 2022)

Mussels said:


> If that's many years away, then yes it's the right choice
> 
> Unless you have a 4090 chasing the high FPS value over anything else, theres nothing faster yet


Still kickin' with 1080 Ti, I may look for an used 2080 Ti next year..



Mussels said:


> To my knowledge CPU's dont get any power from the 24 pin these days, do they?


I guess not, hasn't that been the thing since P4 days?


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 10, 2022)

Nordic said:


> New high score! Horribly inefficient at 170w though.


170W would be more like FX! But it would kill an OC'ed Q6600 @220W any day, TMK!


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## L'Eliminateur (Nov 10, 2022)

My motherboard is finally ordered so i'll be setting it up next week (7700X with tower air cooling) and whilst i've been reading and catching up on reviews and stuff, it's been a LONG LONG time since i've dabbled in overclocking and the like, specially never with these newer CPUs with the dozens of knobs they expose (my last OC is "enable all core turbo", rise the max multiplier and a static vcore, that's it).
I plan to run a LOT of benchmarks that review sites are frustratingly not covering, this is my planned workflow in no particular order and questions, please tell me if i'm missing something (i left out basic stuff like bios/windows/driver updates and whatnot):

Win 10/22H2
zentimings, because i see that ryzen timing calculator hasn't been updated in more than a year
¿how do i decide "which sub/timings" are better for my ram if all i have to start are the SPD info?

hwmonitor/hwinfo: ¿is there any other "better" option(aida portable in trial)?
Benchmate (i think it integrates hwinfo and all the ones below)
cinebench/3dmark/7zip/winrar/crystaldiskmark to get some synthetic baselines and maybe a couple games.
About curve optimizer: ¿It seems you run curve optimizer(every video i've seen they use all-core in RM, ¿why not run it in per-core? and then enter those settings in the BIOS manually?, planning to set it up with negative offset with per-core offsets.
Core cycler for testing PBO curve optimizer undervolts
Will overclock past max limits at a later date, something like +100~150Mhz is my target, i doubt i'll make 200 with air


Benchmarks planned:

Virtualization disabled
Mitigations disabled, Phoronix did testing that shows zen4 is slower with Spectre V2 mitigations disabled under linux, i wonder if it's the same in windows and if i can only enable those specific mitigations.


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## animal007uk (Nov 10, 2022)

@Mussels Thank you for the advice and i downloaded Ryzen master and this is much better and room for more tweaking i think


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## dont whant to set it"' (Nov 10, 2022)

Some bits and parts put together I have over the past several days.
Don't judge me, I've ran another benchmark as first and this ain't it.
Had issues finding command rate setting if even present, tough the mb should of got it from xp SPD, mb did not , so I've updated bios but not searched for it in this one, yet.

CorePerformanceBost off, cpu cooler from the mid-late 2000's, Tj max 80^C, DDR5 4000MT-jedec timings(Yes!, the motherboard got 2T command rate right).


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## Mussels (Nov 11, 2022)

animal007uk said:


> @Mussels Thank you for the advice and i downloaded Ryzen master and this is much better and room for more tweaking i think
> View attachment 269407


4650 on each core (At seperate times? If thats under all core load thats awesome) with 100W max and <65C is lookin pretty good


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## animal007uk (Nov 11, 2022)

Mussels said:


> 4650 on each core (At seperate times? If thats under all core load thats awesome) with 100W max and <65C is lookin pretty good


Yeah that was an all core boost run.
PBO in ryzen master after doing the curve optimizer thing.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2022)

freeagent said:


> If you are sporting the latest AGESA 1207 it really limits how much power the CPU gets, it should run cooler for you. But! That heatsink is pretty outgunned right now.. so there is that too.


Is it worth going to the previous AGESA?


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## freeagent (Nov 11, 2022)

Nordic said:


> Is it worth going to the previous AGESA?


For my 5600X and 5900X I like 1203


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2022)

freeagent said:


> For my 5600X and 5900X I like 1203


Is that the previous Agesa? Its for that little bit more power to the cpu, right?


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## tabascosauz (Nov 11, 2022)

Nordic said:


> Is that the previous Agesa? Its for that little bit more power to the cpu, right?



You have to test for your own CPU and board to see if it's the case, but 1203 is usually optimal for regular Ryzen 5000 CPUs on Windows 10.

The only real reasons I can think of for running 1206 or 1207:

You want to use Windows 11 with fTPM on
You want to use Windows 11 and are still experiencing the L3 cache bug with 1203
You have a 5800X3D
You want to try different BIOSes in hopes of fixing USB issues
You want some other specific feature that's only present in newer BIOSes


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## AlienIsGOD (Nov 11, 2022)

upgraded my 2700 to an R5 5600


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## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 12, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Not the best heatsink for these CPU's at all
> 
> Physically its big enough, but the wonky baseplate makes it possible to have shitty contact directly where you need it the most
> (Not to scale or anything, but a mockup to show what i mean, with the IO die and CPU die potentially being in-between the copper heatpipes where the larger air gap is)
> ...


My answer to that:
Cooler Master MasterAir MA612 Stealth ARGB CPU Air Cooler, 6 Heat Pipes, Nickel Plated Base, Aluminum Black Fins, Push-Pull, Dual SickleFlow Fans for AMD Ryzen/Intel 1200/1151 LGA 1700 Compatible - Newegg.com

I would hope that it comes this upcoming Tuesday.


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## freeagent (Nov 12, 2022)

110 bucks for a cooler master cooler??


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## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 12, 2022)

freeagent said:


> 110 bucks for a cooler master cooler??


$74.99 USD.



RJARRRPCGP said:


> $74.99 USD.


Seems like almost anything is better than the Hyper 212, when you look at the bottom and the heatpipe configuration.


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## Mussels (Nov 13, 2022)

Nordic said:


> Is it worth going to the previous AGESA?


It can bring the fTPM bug back, but if you disabled the need for that crap when installing 11 you're fine


CM keep changing the 212, every revision has drastic changes to the design - some are alu + copper heatpipes, some are pure heatpipes, some have alu or copper baseplates. The similar names trick people into thinking this $20 USD 212 is the one everyones raving about, when its not.


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## freeagent (Nov 13, 2022)

My 212 Evo has massive gaps in it, circa 2012.


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## Mussels (Nov 13, 2022)

(I left this open in my browser for like 8 hours, lol)

The Hyper 212 from 2007:
A solid slab of copper under the heatpipes.
It all goes downhill from here.





212 Evo: Copper slab gone, thinned back to just the heatpipes. That loss of solid copper hurts.




212x: This is the globally popular one that stayed with the close heatpipes that were effectively solid copper contact.






212 LED(white/turbo etc)
Flat in this image at least, but the spaces begin


.




Evo V2: This even comes in an LGA1700 version
More spaced out, but a terrible choice for multi chip CPUs
You can see the height difference between alu and copper






Black edition: (RGB variants the same) - It may have nickel plating on the bottom vs plain Alu, at least.
Gaps here exist but are very minimal






212 RGB black: They stop showing actual images and give you renders only





They sold a bunch of shitty products with the name of the original, relying on customer confusion to buy the wrong one

I skipped a good 10 variants just because they're all the same


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## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 13, 2022)

I have a 6-pipe version expected to come my way. It's not a 212.


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## freeagent (Nov 13, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> I have a 6-pipe version expected to come my way. It's not a 212.


Hopefully it has a real cold plate and not some milled down pipes


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## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 13, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Hopefully it has a real cold plate and not some milled down pipes


They aren't exposed pipes, it has what looks like a nickel plate. Like the copper plate of the beloved early-212s, but what is probably nickel it its place, it doesn't look like the usual aluminum.


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## freeagent (Nov 13, 2022)

For you AM5 guys.. not sure if this will help you or not:






						AM5 Secure Frame BLACK – Thermalright
					






					www.thermalright.com


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 14, 2022)

freeagent said:


> For you AM5 guys.. not sure if this will help you or not:


Looks like I won't be getting AM5 for a good while!


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## dont whant to set it"' (Nov 14, 2022)

@freeagent Will take into consideration if deliding.
Mine runs pretty well, tough a remount cpu cooler I have to chase because the cooler did not come with a screw driver (need long and thin, so it fits trough fin stack to tighten one nut). I used adjustable vice grips.


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## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 14, 2022)

Vice grips? I fear that I'm going to be required to use those or similar, just to get the Hyper 212 Evo V2 mount off of my ASRock B550 PG Velocita! If I don't find the proper screwdriver or nut driver!


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## AusWolf (Nov 15, 2022)

I've just noticed something strange with my new system. When I cold start it, the CPU and RAM debug leds stay on, and it won't boot. If I turn it off and on again, everything is OK. What could cause this?


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## tabascosauz (Nov 15, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> I've just noticed something strange with my new system. When I cold start it, the CPU and RAM debug leds stay on, and it won't boot. If I turn it off and on again, everything is OK. What could cause this?



Doesn't cold boot RAM training take a LONG time on AM5 right now? Like, minutes long?


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## AusWolf (Nov 15, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Doesn't cold boot RAM training take a LONG time on AM5 right now? Like, minutes long?


The longest I've waited was around 5 minutes. The funny thing is, if I get fed up, and restart the PC, it works fine.

Should this happen at EVERY cold start?


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## MagnyCours (Nov 15, 2022)

The time it takes for my system to reach the BIOS splash screen off of a cold boot is always 30 seconds. Something might be off with your system.


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## Super Firm Tofu (Nov 15, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Doesn't cold boot RAM training take a LONG time on AM5 right now? Like, minutes long?





AusWolf said:


> The longest I've waited was around 5 minutes. The funny thing is, if I get fed up, and restart the PC, it works fine.
> 
> Should this happen at EVERY cold start?



Normal cold boots should be about 30 seconds to the post screen.  If you mean after a BIOS reset, or possibly removing power from the board/box, then that could be longer.

I had an old GB board on Sandy Bridge that did what's being described.  Disconnect power from the box, and the first boot would hang, requiring a forced power-down by holding the button until the board shut off.  After that, it was golden until power was removed from the box again.

Guessing, it's probably hanging on the memory init. (training, whatever) due to unstable settings from EXPO.  Double-check SoC voltage - mine set 1.3v(!) just choosing EXPO.  I manually changed back to 1.08v and it's been good since.

@AusWolf, are you on AGESA 1003 Patch A?


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## AusWolf (Nov 15, 2022)

Super Firm Tofu said:


> Normal cold boots should be about 30 seconds to the post screen.  If you mean after a BIOS reset, or possibly removing power from the board/box, then that could be longer.
> 
> I had an old GB board on Sandy Bridge that did what's being described.  Disconnect power from the box, and the first boot would hang, requiring a forced power-down by holding the button until the board shut off.  After that, it was golden until power was removed from the box again.
> 
> ...


Yes, that's the first and so far only version that came for my board.

I'll check the SoC voltage as you suggested, but won't be able to report back my findings until tomorrow. I get these hang-ups literally during cold starts only.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 15, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> The longest I've waited was around 5 minutes. The funny thing is, if I get fed up, and restart the PC, it works fine.
> 
> Should this happen at EVERY cold start?



Sounds like bad RAM settings. I know AM5 is a bit slow but on DDR4 I had that experience once with a mystery meat Corsair LPX kit, took like 10 minutes to POST every time.

ASRock said they later reduced boot times, early AGESA is always a wild ride


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## AusWolf (Nov 15, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> early AGESA is always a wild ride


This is my main guess, to be fair. I think I read somewhere that AMD is planning on reducing memory training times with future AGESA updates.



Super Firm Tofu said:


> Guessing, it's probably hanging on the memory init. (training, whatever) due to unstable settings from EXPO.  Double-check SoC voltage - mine set 1.3v(!) just choosing EXPO.  I manually changed back to 1.08v and it's been good since.


I've checked, EXPO sets it to about 1.3-1.38 V. I changed it to 1.1 V, we'll see if it does anything. Also, I found a setting that lets the motherboard skip memory retraining whenever possible. I've enabled that, too.


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## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 15, 2022)

Super Firm Tofu said:


> Disconnect power from the box, and the first boot would hang, requiring a forced power-down by holding the button until the board shut off.  After that, it was golden until power was removed from the box again.


Sounds like CPU core OC'ing while CPU load-line-calibration is disabled. That happened to me on socket 775 on my Asus P5QL Pro with my Core 2 Duo E4500.
It happened one time after I forgot to enable CPU load-line-calibration. Had to retry to cold boot, but then was able to get into the BIOS, Windows and have stress tests pass.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 16, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> Looks like I won't be getting AM5 for a good while!


Me neither, but the silly heatspreader isnt why 


AusWolf said:


> Yes, that's the first and so far only version that came for my board.
> 
> I'll check the SoC voltage as you suggested, but won't be able to report back my findings until tomorrow. I get these hang-ups literally during cold starts only.


cold boot issues sound like the RAM or IMC settings are incorrect, and it then loads the JEDEC defaults and posts

You shut it down, it then tries to boot the bad settings, repeat. BIOS can show you say 3600 on the ram, but windows will show it's at 2133 when this sort of thing happens.

SoC is pretty likely to be all you need to change, but you'd wanna double check you've got XMP and no overclock/PBO settings anywhere (the various menus can conflict, you can do a per-CCX overclock, a curve undervolt and a static voltage and good luck knowing which one is active) - sometimes a clear to defaults is a good idea


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## AusWolf (Nov 16, 2022)

Mussels said:


> cold boot issues sound like the RAM or IMC settings are incorrect, and it then loads the JEDEC defaults and posts
> 
> You shut it down, it then tries to boot the bad settings, repeat. BIOS can show you say 3600 on the ram, but windows will show it's at 2133 when this sort of thing happens.
> 
> SoC is pretty likely to be all you need to change, but you'd wanna double check you've got XMP and no overclock/PBO settings anywhere (the various menus can conflict, you can do a per-CCX overclock, a curve undervolt and a static voltage and good luck knowing which one is active) - sometimes a clear to defaults is a good idea


Nope, it's running 6000 MHz EXPO all day and night, confirmed in Windows.

Do you think PBO affects SoC voltage and I'd be good to go by just disabling PBO?



Mussels said:


> Me neither, but the silly heatspreader isnt why


Why would you need AM5 when you're on a 5800X3D?


----------



## freeagent (Nov 16, 2022)

I don’t know anything about AM5, sounds like it could use some vddg iod voltage?


----------



## Kissamies (Nov 18, 2022)

The audio problems still persist. Hell, I'll try going back to Win10 if the problem is just a Win11 thing.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 18, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Nope, it's running 6000 MHz EXPO all day and night, confirmed in Windows.
> 
> Do you think PBO affects SoC voltage and I'd be good to go by just disabling PBO?
> 
> Why would you need AM5 when you're on a 5800X3D?



PBO does not affect SOC voltage. If EXPO = XMP in function then setting that would automatically set VSOC as well, which is to be expected. 1.3V default VSOC........damn........reminds me of auto VCCSA going up to like 1.6V. Is it safe? Who knows?



freeagent said:


> I don’t know anything about AM5, sounds like it could use some vddg iod voltage?



There hasn't been too much OC coverage of AM5 (I guess they took one look at DDR5 OC on Raphael and were like nah ), but the voltage domains seem to have changed if you are familiar with what AM4 looks like.

I have seen a lot of reference to the new Vmisc rail, but not that much about how it behaves. iirc the VDDGs were previously subsumed under VSOC (except VDDP)? So this should actually be a pretty big change.

Sad to see that VDDCR_GFX hasn't been split off of VSOC (all of the Vdroop woes right now come from that fact)...

...but VDDCR_VDDM is interesting if it is what I think it is. It makes me think that with AM5 AMD is making preparations for a separate volt domain for Vcache (which they don't currently have), even if it still technically comes from VDDCR_CPU.

From the diagram it kinda looks like VSOC is now only responsible strictly for IO die elements, not any of the interconnect.







Lenne said:


> The audio problems still persist. Hell, I'll try going back to Win10 if the problem is just a Win11 thing.



Not much to lose to try it  

get a nice clean Windows install while you're at it


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Nov 18, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> makes me think that with AM5 AMD is making preparations for a separate volt domain for Vcache


One can only hope... Imagine a 7800X3D fully unlocked except cache!


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 18, 2022)

Count von Schwalbe said:


> One can only hope... Imagine a 7800X3D fully unlocked except cache!



It still won't mean anything unless they overcome the thermal penalty that the 5800X3D suffers right now, but someone was saying that the design of the AM5 IHS suggests changes are afoot there. Maybe they'll design a new CCD around the Vcache instead of grinding the old one down to fit the Vcache.

If they can solve the voltage and temp problem, I'm thinking 7950X3D. The only thing Ryzen benefits from pure clocks is all-core productivity performance, pretty clear from the 5800X3D and Raphael Eco mode gaming results. The 6- and 8-cores are resigned to fight a losing battle against E-cores, but a 7950X3D that can have both cache and clocks has a clear advantage. I don't think AMD likes having 2CCD flagships that are beaten at gaming, and the 16-core will always be better poised to overclock (due to binning and its layout).

And barring other platform limitations, they could really just include 1 Vcache CCD and it'd do the job. Pretty obvious at this point that inter-CCD communication for gaming is still just as bad as it's always been due to lack of CCD-CCD link, so why bother with the other 8 cores?

If anyone has a 7900X/7950X and MW2, I'd be interested to see how many cores shader optimization can utilize now. Previously 1CCD CPUs treat it as an all-core workload, but 2CCDs and MW19 are limited to the contents of CCD0 only.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 18, 2022)

Count von Schwalbe said:


> One can only hope... Imagine a 7800X3D fully unlocked except cache!


The cache runs cool it’s everything else that gets warm


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Nov 19, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Maybe they'll design a new CCD around the Vcache instead of grinding the old one down to fit the Vcache.


Mebbe grinding the heatsink?


tabascosauz said:


> Pretty obvious at this point that inter-CCD communication for gaming is still just as bad as it's always been


It seems obvious that that is the reason that 


tabascosauz said:


> include 1 Vcache CCD


Is not on the table. Or did you mean 1 CCD with V-cache?


tabascosauz said:


> If they can solve the voltage and temp problem, I'm thinking 7950X3D











						Zen 4 X3D Limited to 8-Core and 6-Core, No Meteor Lake in 2023: Frosty Year Expected for CPU Market
					

A reliable source with CPU and platform leaks, ECSM_Official, made some new predictions about release timelines of upcoming desktop processors, and how 2023 could play out for Intel and AMD. 2022 is done, with no new desktop processor SKUs expected to launch from either brands. Intel is expected...




					www.techpowerup.com


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## tabascosauz (Nov 19, 2022)

Count von Schwalbe said:


> Mebbe grinding the heatsink?
> 
> It seems obvious that that is the reason that
> 
> ...



Yeah, 1 Vcache CCD + 1 normal CCD, just entertaining the idea I guess. Would save costs since Vcache is completely wasted on the second CCD. 7600X3D and 7800X3D is the most logical but it doesn't get rid of the 1CCD tradeoff. Either you get gaming performance, or you get productivity performance - 7950X3D gets the best of both worlds.

The AM5 IHS remarks were about it being too thick, yes, speculating that they could thin the IHS on X3D products. But that assumes either that there's a new unique Vcache CCD, or that they've managed to stack Vcache with uniform z-height, without die thinning or silicon spacer. so it's just all fun speculation I guess

Some people think AM5's temps were caused by the thick IHS, just like the 11900K; personally I think it's just typical AMD being AMD, and pushing clocks/volts way way past the sweet spot of the process they're currently using. You've seen how cool and nice Zen 4 is at 4.7 base clock - at this moment that would be a great place for a X3D to be, since it's cache not clocks that are doing the heavy lifting in games.


----------



## AusWolf (Nov 19, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Me neither, but the silly heatspreader isnt why
> 
> cold boot issues sound like the RAM or IMC settings are incorrect, and it then loads the JEDEC defaults and posts
> 
> ...





tabascosauz said:


> PBO does not affect SOC voltage. If EXPO = XMP in function then setting that would automatically set VSOC as well, which is to be expected. 1.3V default VSOC........damn........reminds me of auto VCCSA going up to like 1.6V. Is it safe? Who knows?


After experimenting a little bit with the SoC voltage, the Auto option sets 1.2 V now for some reason. Still no luck with the lock-up during cold boot. 

I've also read somewhere that over-tightening the CPU cooler can cause similar issues, so I loosened mine a little bit, but still no change.



freeagent said:


> I don’t know anything about AM5, sounds like it could use some vddg iod voltage?


VDDIO voltage is on Auto as well, at 1.36 V.


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## Count von Schwalbe (Nov 19, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> But that assumes either that there's a new unique Vcache CCD


That's what there was for AM4, due to the extra thickness. Thinning the AM5 IHS would prevent that issue, and probably improve thermals.


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## Mussels (Nov 20, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Do you think PBO affects SoC voltage and I'd be good to go by just disabling PBO?


no PBO doesnt affect ram at all, and only indirectly alters CPU voltages (by limiting the clock speeds)


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## outpt (Nov 20, 2022)

I thought that the long boot times was a bios fault and amd was going to fix these problem with new updates for am5 motherboards. Why is amd just now thinking about ihs problems? Surely this did not get passed all the engineers that work for them. I just can not believe that there is not a team working on vcache to help solve these problems since they have a good idea already.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 20, 2022)

outpt said:


> I thought that the long boot times was a bios fault and amd was going to fix these problem with new updates for am5 motherboards. Why is amd just now thinking about ihs problems? Surely this did not get passed all the engineers that work for them. I just can not believe that there is not a team working on vcache to help solve these problems since they have a good idea already.



The long boot times seem more to be DDR5-related, but AGESA isn't helping either. Since 2017 you have better odds betting on Half Life 3 release date than AMD proactively fixing AGESA  did you really think that would change just for AM5?

I'm not sure what IHS problems you are referring to - Vcache delay is because TSMC delayed the approval of N5-on-N5 SoIC. 5800X3D's thermals are not really because of the IHS. Besides, no one knows what tricks they've got up their sleeves for N5 X3D. Maybe some creative packaging........or maybe no innovation at all.


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## outpt (Nov 20, 2022)

From what I gather it is the thickness of the ihs they are using. A one core ccx already has heat problems and a thicker ihs would only compound the problems *. AMD in a effort to one up intel is now cranking up core clocks and voltage in a effort to stay ahead I guess. I can not believe they had no idea that raptor lake was stronger than than their upcoming cpus


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## AusWolf (Nov 20, 2022)

Mussels said:


> no PBO doesnt affect ram at all, and only indirectly alters CPU voltages (by limiting the clock speeds)


Then all I can do is wait for an AGESA update, I guess. 

Or maybe disable EXPO? Do you think that would have any effect on this problem? I've read somewhere that the performance drop in real life isn't that huge.


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## Count von Schwalbe (Nov 20, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> N5-on-N5 SoIC.


Forgive me if I am wrong, but doesn't cache scale badly with node? I would have thought N6...


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## tabascosauz (Nov 20, 2022)

Count von Schwalbe said:


> Forgive me if I am wrong, but doesn't cache scale badly with node? I would have thought N6...



Dunno. Some leaks had X3D as N6-on-N5, but that was from months ago, and TSMC tested a N6 on N5 application early on in 2021. But approved SoIC combos so far seems to be N7-N7 and N5-N5.

AMD's use doesn't even match the specs exactly; 5800X3D obviously used Gen 1 SoIC but with like double the bond pitch of what was advertised for SoIC 1.


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## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 22, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> They aren't exposed pipes, it has what looks like a nickel plate. Like the copper plate of the beloved early-212s, but what is probably nickel in its place, it doesn't look like the usual aluminum.
> 
> View attachment 269803


Yes! It came today! But, I didn't even open the box yet!

Installed, but will try a re-TIM sometime later.


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## AusWolf (Nov 23, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> I've just noticed something strange with my new system. When I cold start it, the CPU and RAM debug leds stay on, and it won't boot. If I turn it off and on again, everything is OK. What could cause this?


Another update on this: disabling EXPO makes my PC not only not lock up during cold boot, but it boots up almost instantly. I guess an AGESA update with improved RAM training is really in order. 

Now the question is, how much detectable performance am I losing if I run my RAM at 4800 MHz CL40 instead of 6000 MHz CL36... 

Edit: Other changes: SoC voltage is now 1.028 V and VDDIO is 1.1 V, and the memory controller runs at 2400 MHz (it ran at 1500 with 6000 MHz RAM). Do you guys think it would be worth manually setting these voltages with EXPO and a 1:1 RAM:IMC ratio? Or would it make it unstable?


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## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 24, 2022)

Well, the temps at the default settings, are down to where Ryzen Master usually reports 81-83 C.

Update with two Noctuas, with push-pull configuration: Usually 81 C.

Note that this is in a warm room, IMHO.


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## Mussels (Nov 24, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Another update on this: disabling EXPO makes my PC not only not lock up during cold boot, but it boots up almost instantly. I guess an AGESA update with improved RAM training is really in order.
> 
> Now the question is, how much detectable performance am I losing if I run my RAM at 4800 MHz CL40 instead of 6000 MHz CL36...
> 
> Edit: Other changes: SoC voltage is now 1.028 V and VDDIO is 1.1 V, and the memory controller runs at 2400 MHz (it ran at 1500 with 6000 MHz RAM). Do you guys think it would be worth manually setting these voltages with EXPO and a 1:1 RAM:IMC ratio? Or would it make it unstable?


In other words, your EXPO settings are too high for the sytem

turn EXPO on, but lower the RAM and IF down a few notches til you find where it's stable - that way you're getting the recommended voltages and timings


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## Chomiq (Nov 24, 2022)

My co-workers gigabyte b550 board stopped functioning few weeks ago after multiple boot failures. It came back from RMA (twice), turns out that somehow Kingston's HyperX memory has failed critically, shorted and blew one of the fuses on mobo.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 24, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Another update on this: disabling EXPO makes my PC not only not lock up during cold boot, but it boots up almost instantly. I guess an AGESA update with improved RAM training is really in order.
> 
> Now the question is, how much detectable performance am I losing if I run my RAM at 4800 MHz CL40 instead of 6000 MHz CL36...
> 
> Edit: Other changes: SoC voltage is now 1.028 V and VDDIO is 1.1 V, and the memory controller runs at 2400 MHz (it ran at 1500 with 6000 MHz RAM). Do you guys think it would be worth manually setting these voltages with EXPO and a 1:1 RAM:IMC ratio? Or would it make it unstable?



You sure your chip can't do 3000MHz UCLK if you manually set it? 1500 is 1:2 and not where you wanna be, 2400 is normal 1:1 for JEDEC 4800. Maybe bump VSOC a bit? 

Fabric has been moved away but it sounds like VSOC is still responsible for the UMC itself - I have no idea what safe voltage range looks like for the N6 IO die but I don't think VDDIO (what is that? Is that MSI's name for Vmisc?) is helping you there.

AMD did say though that auto:1:1 @ 6000 is a "sweetspot". So essentially, good luck buddy, we ain't promising shit  

Knowing all that, the long POST times make sense if it's just constantly failing 1:1 UCLK and eventually resorting to 1500MHz


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## AusWolf (Nov 24, 2022)

Mussels said:


> In other words, your EXPO settings are too high for the sytem
> 
> turn EXPO on, but lower the RAM and IF down a few notches til you find where it's stable - that way you're getting the recommended voltages and timings


In other words, my motherboard is a PoS.

Which RAM and IF settings should I lower? The frequency? The RAM is designed to run at 6000 MHz, and the IF is already at 1:2 (1500 MHz) with the Auto setting.

Here are my voltages at JEDEC spec:
CPU NB/SoC: 1.028 V
DRAM: 1.1 V
DRAM VDDQ: 1.1 V
DRAM VPP: 1.8 V
CPU VDDIO: 1.1 V
CPU 1P8: 1.795 V

And here they are with EXPO on, all on auto:
CPU NB/SoC: 1.364 V
DRAM: 1.35 V
DRAM VDDQ: 1.35 V
DRAM VPP: 1.95 V
CPU VDDIO: 1.356 V
CPU 1P8: 1.8 V

I'm not yet familiar with how AM5 works, so I'm not sure what's right and wrong here.



tabascosauz said:


> You sure your chip can't do 3000MHz UCLK if you manually set it? 1500 is 1:2 and not where you wanna be, 2400 is normal 1:1 for JEDEC 4800. Maybe bump VSOC a bit?
> 
> Fabric has been moved away but it sounds like VSOC is still responsible for the UMC itself - I have no idea what safe voltage range looks like for the N6 IO die but I don't think VDDIO (what is that? Is that MSI's name for Vmisc?) is helping you there.
> 
> ...


I've just tried the 1:1 setting with EXPO on and the system hung up during first boot (I waited 4+ minutes with no POST). I could get into the BIOS after a manual restart, but just barely.

Seeing the above, do you think I need more voltage somewhere?


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## tabascosauz (Nov 24, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> I'm not yet familiar with how AM5 works, so I'm not sure what's right and wrong here.
> 
> I've just tried the 1:1 setting with EXPO on and the system hung up during first boot (I waited 4+ minutes with no POST). I could get into the BIOS after a manual restart, but just barely.
> 
> Seeing the above, do you think I need more voltage somewhere?



I'm no expert either, I'm struggling just to figure out what the new rails do (turns out I was probably mistaken about Vcache getting its own rail). Raphael must not be very popular, have barely seen much OC discussion about it at all compared to 13th gen (particularly memory).

I'm just going off of skatterbencher:









						Raphael Overclocking: What’s New - SkatterBencher
					

Raphael is finally here and just like with every new generation, a new CPU means new overclocking features.




					skatterbencher.com
				




Looks like VSOC is chiefly responsible for mem controller. No idea what's a safe number and what isn't. Does the EXPO default 1.35V allow you to hit 3000MHz UCLK?

iirc Fabric you just run as high as you can run it, doesn't matter what ratio it is to UCLK. Same as AM4 (just that it was practically useless since there was no reason to unsync AM4)

The VDDIO doesn't look like Vmisc, the guide says VDDIO_MEM_S3. Having trouble understanding what it or VDDP functionally does yet, but it sounds like they would prevent you from booting 6000 if they were the issue (irrespective of what UCLK you had at 6000).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but on every other platform if your mobo is truly holding back memory speeds you wouldn't even post 6000 regardless of mem controller speed. It's not a high end board at 6400 qvl but it doesn't look like a board problem.

VDDQ and VPP are DDR5-specific voltages I think. As in, the sticks, not the memory controller.


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## AusWolf (Nov 24, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> I'm no expert either, I'm struggling just to figure out what the new rails do (turns out I was probably mistaken about Vcache getting its own rail). Raphael must not be very popular, have barely seen much OC discussion about it at all compared to 13th gen (particularly memory).
> 
> I'm just going off of skatterbencher:
> 
> ...


I skimmed through the article, but it's more of a "what it does" kind of writing, and not a detailed guide of what is and isn't safe.

I think I'll just leave it at JEDEC 4800 MHz with IF at 2400 MHz (1:1) for now until more detailed guides come out. I don't really have the patience to manually tweak voltages myself. 

Not to mention, running at JEDEC nearly halves my CPU's idle power consumption from 20 W to about 11-12 W.

I found this Guru3D article about the effect of different memory speeds with the 7700X. It looks like memory OC brings near zero difference with a 3090 at 1080p, so I should be OK with my 6750 XT.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 24, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> I think I'll just leave it at JEDEC 4800 MHz with IF at 2400 MHz (1:1) for now until more detailed guides come out. I don't really have the patience to manually tweak voltages myself.
> 
> Not to mention, running at JEDEC nearly halves my CPU's idle power consumption from 20 W to about 11-12 W.



Probably a smart idea. Skatterbencher has also been covering the newest AGESA 1003's Cstate boost limiter. Clearly the work on Raphael is still ongoing, chipset drivers implementing changes too.

20W > 11W is to be expected from going from a whopping 1.36V down to 1.02V VSOC  

You mean 2400MHz UCLK or Fabric? 2400 Fabric would be surprisingly nice actually considering it's still the same design. Reminder that FCLK is no longer of primary importance (at least at EXPO/XMP speeds), it's just UCLK.


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## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 24, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> In other words, my motherboard is a PoS.


I wouldn't trust it either, because it looks like it's in the market segment where the FETs are cheap as you know what. Increases the chance that you'll one day unexpectedly find the motherboard off and won't power on again.


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## igralec84 (Nov 24, 2022)

Has anyone tried the Ryzen Master Curve Optimizer test? I let it run for 1.5 hours yesterday, it restarted/crashed twice and them came out with -25 on all cores, which was stable maybe for one CB23 and Geekbench run. Since then lowered to -15 all cores and i think +125mhz boost override.

Been having some random crashes mostly right after logging on after upgrading from 7600X to 7950X, using the sam manual RAM settings (i have a non EXPO 5600 CL40 but set the primary timings from a Corsair 6000 CL30 since it's using the same Hynix M-die i think). 

Not sure what it doesn't like but -10 and +100hz was stable for most Tuesday and yesterday before i started experimenting with CO and PBO again   

I'm not getting any WHEA or bug check errors in event viewer, the crashes also don't seem to be logged as they're like hard resets, the only errors that seem to be happening are:



> The SSGDIO service failed to start due to the following error:
> A certificate was explicitly revoked by its issuer.
> Event ID 7000



Doesn't seem like they were happening with the 7600X. I did have to reset my PIN at first 2 logins after fitting the 7950X, so not sure if there's some kind of fTPM or security issue or just over-optimistic PBO/CO. Or shit ASrock BIOS. Memtest does 3500% with the current settings so it's probably not the memory as i ran it like that for weeks before.


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## The King (Nov 24, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> I wouldn't trust it either, because it looks like it's in the market segment where the FETs are cheap as you know what. Increases the chance that you'll one day unexpectedly find the motherboard off and won't power on again.


Apparently Msi B650 entire range of boards are all 6 layers PCBs and maybe $hite when it comes to RAM support or OC.


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## AusWolf (Nov 24, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Probably a smart idea. Skatterbencher has also been covering the newest AGESA 1003's Cstate boost limiter. Clearly the work on Raphael is still ongoing, chipset drivers implementing changes too.
> 
> 20W > 11W is to be expected from going from a whopping 1.36V down to 1.02V VSOC
> 
> You mean 2400MHz UCLK or Fabric? 2400 Fabric would be surprisingly nice actually considering it's still the same design. Reminder that FCLK is no longer of primary importance (at least at EXPO/XMP speeds), it's just UCLK.


I might be confusing IF with the IMC. Are they on different clocks, anyway? It's strange that AM4 never confused me this much.  

I mean this:





If I enable EXPO, the RAM runs at 6000 MHz, and the "Uncore" (whatever CPU-Z means by that) is at 1500.



The King said:


> Apparently Msi B650 entire range of boards are all 6 layers PCBs and maybe $hite when it comes to RAM support or OC.


Hmm... The big question, is it worth investing time into fiddling with it? Or would I be better off with a different motherboard? Or should I just run it at JEDEC spec and call it a day?


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## The King (Nov 24, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Hmm... The big question, is it worth investing time into fiddling with it? Or would I be better off with a different motherboard? Or should I just run it at JEDEC spec and call it a day?


No experience when it come to AM5 or DDR5 so can't say. Maybe check this thread on this forum.








						AMD DDR5 OC And 24/7 Daily Memory Stability Thread
					

https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/expo    Soon to be released EXPO AMD optimised DDR5 memory.  Likely as with Intel memory, A-die will be preferred. M-die being a close second.  It has been said that like 3800-4000 1-1  the sweet spot for AMD 5000 series CPUs, 6000 1-1 should be the sweet spot...




					www.overclock.net


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## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 24, 2022)

The King said:


> Apparently Msi B650 entire range of boards are all 6 layers PCBs and maybe $hite when it comes to RAM support or OC.


Raphael now, is like Vermeer in 2020 and 2021.


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## AusWolf (Nov 24, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Hmm... The big question, is it worth investing time into fiddling with it? Or would I be better off with a different motherboard? Or should I just run it at JEDEC spec and call it a day?


... or I could just go through a "turn on - wait a few seconds - turn off - turn on again and POST" cycle every time. What would you guys do?


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## tabascosauz (Nov 24, 2022)

@AusWolf I'm not sure about average FCLK on Raphael but 2400 seems pretty impressive to me. If you know you can do 2400 FCLK stable, just set it manually from now on.

on AM4, I'm not sure if Uncore in CPU-Z refers to FCLK or UCLK. Functionally both were basically the same so we just treated it as FCLK.

In any case, you need to be looking at Zentimings anyway, not CPU-Z.

FCLK=Fabric
UCLK=memory controller
MCLK=memory speed

On AM4 there was just zero reason not to run 1:1:1 as a daily, which simplified things. On AM5, it's whatever:1:1 instead. 

It's good to get Fabric up to at least 2000MHz, but most importantly you can't be running halved UCLK for good performance.


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## AusWolf (Nov 24, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> @AusWolf I'm not sure about average FCLK on Raphael but 2400 seems pretty impressive to me. If you know you can do 2400 FCLK stable, just set it manually from now on.
> 
> on AM4, I'm not sure if Uncore in CPU-Z refers to FCLK or UCLK. Functionally both were basically the same so we just treated it as FCLK.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure how impressive it is considering that it settles to 2400 at bone stock JEDEC settings and low voltages. I've seen a slide from AMD somewhere that "6000 MHz RAM at 1:1 with the IMC is the sweet spot". That 1:1 implies 3000 MHz FCLK, which is apparently not possible on my system - or maybe it is with some voltage tweaking, I don't know. I blame my motherboard, nonetheless.

The bigger question is how those numbers in the graph translate to real world performance. I mean, transfer speeds and latencies look nice in a diagram, but if my idle power consumption doubles with no more FPS in games, then what's the point?

This is my EXPO setting with everything else on Auto:


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 24, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> I'm not sure how impressive it is considering that it settles to 2400 at bone stock JEDEC settings and low voltages. I've seen a slide from AMD somewhere that "6000 MHz RAM at 1:1 with the IMC is the sweet spot". That 1:1 implies 3000 MHz FCLK, which is apparently not possible on my system - or maybe it is with some voltage tweaking, I don't know. I blame my motherboard, nonetheless.



No, that's not what it implies. Like I said, 1:1 now only refers to UCLK:MCLK. You want to run 3000MHz UCLK; you can run whatever FCLK you wish.

On AM4 it was 1:1:1 FCLK:UCLK:MCLK for good performance.
On AM5 it is now auto:1:1 because Fabric, while not irrelevant, doesn't matter nearly as much as UCLK (like the slide above showed).
I'm 99% sure that 1:1:1 is straight up impossible at good DDR5 speeds (ie. 6000), the el cheapo chiplet IFOP design basically hasn't changed in any significant way since Ryzen 3000. Hence 2400 doesn't seem awful at all, most of the messaging implies that if you get to 2000MHz FCLK it'll be a non-issue. Auto:1:1 is a compromise between the needs of DDR5 and the reality that the chiplet design needs major changes if Fabric wants to keep up (ie. look at AMD's new fanout bridge tech on RDNA3).

But desyncing UCLK:MCLK is a different matter and analogous to Gear 2 on Intel (but from what I can tell, probably more along the lines of going Gear 2>Gear 4 since 12th/13th is optimized for Gear 2 on DDR5, while Raphael isn't).

As for game testing, if the game is purely GPU limited then you could run any CPU at base clock and 2133 JEDEC and not see much difference - doesn't mean it's a good idea, even if it saved a significant amount of SOC power.

You gotta install Zentimings my dude. CPU-Z doesn't provide any useful information.


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## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 25, 2022)

What? 2400 for data rate with DDR5? If that's true, then it looks like a waste to go from socket AM4 and DDR4! (if 2400/2) (Reminding me of the early DDR2 days!)

OTOH, I would jive, if that's 2400*2. (4800)


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## Mussels (Nov 25, 2022)

Damnit i forgot the voltage i used for my 5800x all core OC
My ITX system is having heat issues since i'm gaming on it while working on the custom loop in the main PC

(5800x + 1070ti can actually chew upto 350W, making it possible to use MORE wattage than my main rig gaming)

Was it 1.125v? 1.25v? dang it


----------



## AusWolf (Nov 25, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> No, that's not what it implies. Like I said, 1:1 now only refers to UCLK:MCLK. You want to run 3000MHz UCLK; you can run whatever FCLK you wish.
> 
> On AM4 it was 1:1:1 FCLK:UCLK:MCLK for good performance.
> On AM5 it is now auto:1:1 because Fabric, while not irrelevant, doesn't matter nearly as much as UCLK (like the slide above showed).
> ...


Ah I see. CPU-Z is unclear on what "uncore" means. Is it UCLK or FCLK? I'm wondering if HWINFO gives a clearer picture. I'll check in a moment. I'll also try manually setting FCLK to 2000 - maybe it doesn't like running at 1500 with high SoC voltage (which theoretically shouldn't be a problem, but who knows).

To be honest, I would gladly swallow the higher SoC voltage and +10 W idle power consumption if I didn't have the aforementioned cold boot lockup. Do you know any good 3D benchmark or game that is sensitive to RAM? I don't want to force my PC to do something it's obviously not happy to do just for +1% performance that I don't even see. 

Edit: You're right, CPU-Z is garbage with this...


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 25, 2022)

@igralec84 maybe they improved things on Raphael but I tried Ryzen Master's CO testing feature on two 5700Gs and my 5900X. All were miserably nonsensical, recommendations were completely off the mark of what I knew was stable for each CPU (ie. would pass RM's test but literally nothing else since so unstable). On my 5700Gs I think I ran -10 to -15, run after run RM was calling for close to -30 all core. 

Couldn't really tell why, from monitoring data it at least looked like RM was testing CO properly. Maybe the final output was just skewed

The usual tests still stand for CO, corecycler/occt/ycruncher etc., i havent seen anyone knowledgeable seriously consider testing with RM



AusWolf said:


> Ah I see. CPU-Z is unclear on what "uncore" means. Is it UCLK or FCLK? I'm wondering if HWINFO gives a clearer picture. I'll check in a moment. I'll also try manually setting FCLK to 2000 - maybe it doesn't like running at 1500 with high SoC voltage (which theoretically shouldn't be a problem, but who knows).
> 
> To be honest, I would gladly swallow the higher SoC voltage and +10 W idle power consumption if I didn't have the aforementioned cold boot lockup. Do you know any good 3D benchmark or game that is sensitive to RAM? I don't want to force my PC to do something it's obviously not happy to do just for +1% performance that I don't even see.
> 
> ...



Shadow of tomb raider is reasonably memory sensitive at like 720p or 1080p low I think. Can't remember exact settings.

I know it's not letting you 1:1 at 6000, but what if you ran 2400 FCLK manually (since you know it can do it), and set EXPO but brought UCLK and MCLK down to say 2800 (5600)?

I'm not familiar with DDR5 but don't flat 36s at 6000 suggest Samsung kit not Hynix? Think most OCers don't regard Samsung or Micron DDR5 very favourably at all, both seem harder to clock higher


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## AusWolf (Nov 25, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Shadow of tomb raider is reasonably memory sensitive at like 720p or 1080p low I think. Can't remember exact settings.
> 
> I know it's not letting you 1:1 at 6000, but what if you ran 2400 FCLK manually (since you know it can do it), and set EXPO but brought UCLK and MCLK down to say 2800 (5600)?
> 
> I'm not familiar with DDR5 but don't flat 36s at 6000 suggest Samsung kit not Hynix? Think most OCers don't regard Samsung or Micron DDR5 very favourably at all, both seem harder to clock higher


If it only shows at 720p and/or low settings, then it doesn't matter - there's no point playing at low settings with a 6750 XT.  Even if I did, having only a million FPS instead of a bazillion is of no significance.

Yes, it's Samsung, but that's not a problem for me.  My attitude towards RAM has always been "set XMP and call it a day". All I want is for my PC not to lock up during cold boot when EXPO is enabled. Honestly, I only bought 6000 MHz RAM because "it's the sweet spot" according to AMD, and it wasn't a lot more expensive than any generic DDR5 kit.

I'll try the manual FCLK later, but I have my doubts that it'll help. With the Auto setting, it's currently doing 2000 with UCLK at 1500 and it still locks up during cold boot. Something else must be the issue. Maybe some of the voltages. Or maybe my motherboard really isn't the best at this.


----------



## Chomiq (Nov 25, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> @igralec84 maybe they improved things on Raphael but I tried Ryzen Master's CO testing feature on two 5700Gs and my 5900X. All were miserably nonsensical, recommendations were completely off the mark of what I knew was stable for each CPU (ie. would pass RM's test but literally nothing else since so unstable).


I gave it a shot once, took over an hour and a half (with two restarts) only to fail at 99% which then had me restart from scratch after reboot.

Instead I stick to -15 on silver/gold cores and -10 on everything else.


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## Count von Schwalbe (Nov 25, 2022)

@AusWolf have you tried the UCLK at 3000 and FCLK at something lower, such as 1800 or 1600? It may be the fabric is the issue, as AFAIK it is the same as AM4. 2000 is high for AM4, at least.


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## HD64G (Nov 25, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> I gave it a shot once, took over an hour and a half (with two restarts) only to fail at 99% which then had me restart from scratch after reboot.
> 
> Instead I stick to -15 on silver/gold cores and -10 on everything else.


I preferred to just back off a bit from what RM co test suggested (-25 instead of -27 and -20 instead of -23 dependiong on the core) and has proven to be absolutely rock solid from there on.


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## igralec84 (Nov 25, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> @igralec84 maybe they improved things on Raphael but I tried Ryzen Master's CO testing feature on two 5700Gs and my 5900X. All were miserably nonsensical, recommendations were completely off the mark of what I knew was stable for each CPU (ie. would pass RM's test but literally nothing else since so unstable). On my 5700Gs I think I ran -10 to -15, run after run RM was calling for close to -30 all core.
> 
> Couldn't really tell why, from monitoring data it at least looked like RM was testing CO properly. Maybe the final output was just skewed
> 
> The usual tests still stand for CO, corecycler/occt/ycruncher etc., i havent seen anyone knowledgeable seriously consider testing with RM



I agree, i don't think RM has improved that much, straight up giving -25  (or maybe it was even -30, can't remember but i thought there's no way that can be right) is a bit optimistic for all cores, that would probably mean the best ones are even more which i highly doubt. 

I've settled for -15 now and +125 boost override and it's been stable so i'll stick with that. Maybe for benchmarks to improve my best scores i'll take some time and try the eCLK way with the raised multiplier and negative boost override, but for normal use and gaming, it's fine the way it is now. Maybe when i'm bored enough i'll investigate which CCX is better or maybe go core by core to see how good they are


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 25, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> If it only shows at 720p and/or low settings, then it doesn't matter - there's no point playing at low settings with a 6750 XT.  Even if I did, having only a million FPS instead of a bazillion is of no significance.
> 
> Yes, it's Samsung, but that's not a problem for me.  My attitude towards RAM has always been "set XMP and call it a day". All I want is for my PC not to lock up during cold boot when EXPO is enabled. Honestly, I only bought 6000 MHz RAM because "it's the sweet spot" according to AMD, and it wasn't a lot more expensive than any generic DDR5 kit.
> 
> I'll try the manual FCLK later, but I have my doubts that it'll help. With the Auto setting, it's currently doing 2000 with UCLK at 1500 and it still locks up during cold boot. Something else must be the issue. Maybe some of the voltages. Or maybe my motherboard really isn't the best at this.



The Low settings are for the benchmark that ppl use for measuring memory/CPU performance. Not playing the actual game. Benchmark is free and included in the demo

6000 makes me a bit leery of both the board and the kit. Is it a dual rank kit? MSI only QVLs 2DIMM dual rank at 5800 for your board - on DDR4 their QVLs were conservative but DDR5 is a different animal, especially with low layer counts on MSI AM5.

I think TPU reviewed the same 6000CL36 kit you have. Not inspiring. The freq struggle bus seems common for Samsung and Micron which is why no one really takes them seriously compared to Hynix for DDR5. Like, I get that 12th gen IMC is mediocre like Raphael, but still, 0 freq headroom?









						Corsair Vengeance RGB DDR5-6000 CL36 2x 16 GB Review
					

Corsair Vengeance RGB brings a competitive DDR5 kit, with an XMP 6000 MT/s profile and modest timings of 36-36-36-76. Designed to fit right into the Corsair ecosystem, it is time to take a closer look and see what all the fuss is about!




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## AusWolf (Nov 25, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> The Low settings are for the benchmark that ppl use for measuring memory/CPU performance. Not playing the actual game. Benchmark is free and included in the demo
> 
> 6000 makes me a bit leery of both the board and the kit. Is it a dual rank kit? MSI only QVLs 2DIMM dual rank at 5800 for your board - on DDR4 their QVLs were conservative but DDR5 is a different animal, especially with low layer counts on MSI AM5.
> 
> ...


Yep, it appears to be the same kit, only that mine is EXPO, not XMP, and mine doesn't have RGB - which is why I chose it in the first place. Simple, plain design without the need for bloatware to turn the bling off seems to be a rarity these days. Performance-wise, as long as it runs at its rated EXPO speed, I'm fine - which it does if I start my PC basically two times (switch on - wait a few seconds - switch off - switch on again to properly POST), which is more of an inconvenience than anything, I guess.  It's a single rank kit, so my board shouldn't have any problems with it (but it's MSi, so who knows).

I'll try the SoTR and RoTR benchmarks later, to see how much speed I'm losing at JEDEC compared to EXPO, but strictly with high graphics. I see no point in benchmarking with settings that I'm not gonna use.


----------



## Kissamies (Nov 25, 2022)

UPDATE

I may finally got rid of that audio latency problem! Did steps 4 and 5, haven't heard a single crack in audio after that *knocks on the table*






						Fix High DPC Latency on Windows 11 / 10 – The Geek Page
					

DPC (Deferred Procedure Call) is a mechanism in Windows makes the system execute low-priority tasks later when the system is idle and high-priority tasks first.




					thegeekpage.com


----------



## Chomiq (Nov 25, 2022)

HD64G said:


> I preferred to just back off a bit from what RM co test suggested (-25 instead of -27 and -20 instead of -23 dependiong on the core) and has proven to be absolutely rock solid from there on.


-15 all core would end up in whea 19 reboots during low power states in my case. Can't imagine going above 20. Like I said, I don't even know what would RM suggest because it never finished.


----------



## AusWolf (Nov 25, 2022)

I've just come across this article about the effect on RAM speed on gaming:









						Fast RAM makes a difference in gaming
					

The Memory Performance Review - 6 Kits tested with 30 Games and Real World Benches Featuring Corsair DDR5 6400




					babeltechreviews.com
				




I don't get it. When I look at the chart, I see ZERO difference between 6400 MHz, 6000 MHz, 5200 MHz and even 3600 MHz with a 12900K and 3080 Ti even at 1080p high settings, not to mention higher resolutions. Then the verdict says _"We’d suggest that a gamer who prefers DDR5 choose a kit that is at least 6000MHz."_ Erm, WHY?! 

I'm more and more on the conclusion that RAM speed doesn't matter at all for gaming, and I might as well jsut run at JEDEC 4800 MHz and get rid of the boot hangup issue, not to mention saving the extra 10 W on CPU idle power consumption.


----------



## Kissamies (Nov 25, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> I've just come across this article about the effect on RAM speed on gaming:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Intel platform isn't as sensitive to RAM speed as Ryzen. When I switched from 16GB @ 2666 to 32GB @ 3466 I saw a significant boost.


----------



## AusWolf (Nov 25, 2022)

Lenne said:


> Intel platform isn't as sensitive to RAM speed as Ryzen. When I switched from 16GB @ 2666 to 32GB @ 3466 I saw a significant boost.


Apparently, Zen 4 isn't too sensitive, either:








						DDR5 Ryzen 7 7700 DDR5 memory scaling review
					

You've likely just read our Ryzen 7000 reviews. and will have noticed that AMD calls DDR5 6000MHz /30CL a sweet spot. It, however might not be a sweet spot for your wallet, ergo we take a look at how... Performance - Gaming RTX 3090 - Assassins Creed Valhalla




					www.guru3d.com
				




This calls for my own testing, I guess.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 25, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Apparently, Zen 4 isn't too sensitive, either:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Weird conclusion to come to since even in the limited selection of games they tested, there are instances where RAM makes a difference at all resolutions.

It's perfectly understandable that the games you play may not see much benefit, but blanket statements aren't very accurate.

Vcache generally seems to level the playing field, however, so RAM doesn't always make a huge difference


----------



## Kissamies (Nov 25, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Apparently, Zen 4 isn't too sensitive, either:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess that older Zens are more sensitive. I mean, even with 1080 Ti I saw a noticeable gain in games with faster RAM


----------



## AusWolf (Nov 25, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Weird conclusion to come to since even in the limited selection of games they tested, there are instances where RAM makes a difference at all resolutions.
> 
> It's perfectly understandable that the games you play may not see much benefit, but blanket statements aren't very accurate.
> 
> Vcache generally seems to level the playing field, however, so RAM doesn't always make a huge difference


I just try to see the usefulness of difference. The biggest one I see is Far Cry 6 at 1080p, which is 135 vs 150 FPS between 4800 vs 6000 MHz, which still isn't significant enough to matter, in my opinion.


----------



## Kissamies (Nov 25, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> I just try to see the usefulness of difference. The biggest one I see is Far Cry 6 at 1080p, which is 135 vs 150 FPS between 4800 vs 6000 MHz, which still isn't significant enough to matter, in my opinion.


Well, 10% is still somewhat a noticeable difference even if not that significant.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 25, 2022)

Lenne said:


> I guess that older Zens are more sensitive. I mean, even with 1080 Ti I saw a noticeable gain in games with faster RAM



Think I heard bz mention in passing in a recent video that dual rank for DDR5 doesn't matter as much as it did for DDR4. Something to do with having a greater number of effective bank groups.

Though, I was only half-listening while doing something else, so it might be an intel only thing, who knows.



AusWolf said:


> I just try to see the usefulness of difference. The biggest one I see is Far Cry 6 at 1080p, which is 135 vs 150 FPS between 4800 vs 6000 MHz, which still isn't significant enough to matter, in my opinion.



Like I said, perfectly understandable if you don't mind it on your setup. But most people are here to get the most out of what they buy. Running JEDEC on a 6000 kit doesn't exactly fit that bill.

And if you have a 60Hz display, it's hard to justify anything, honestly. Everything feels the same anyway


----------



## HD64G (Nov 26, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> -15 all core would end up in whea 19 reboots during low power states in my case. Can't imagine going above 20. Like I said, I don't even know what would RM suggest because it never finished.


RM CO test is good only for per-core optimization. So, let it run every core seperately and adjust those one by one.


----------



## AusWolf (Nov 26, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Like I said, perfectly understandable if you don't mind it on your setup. But most people are here to get the most out of what they buy. Running JEDEC on a 6000 kit doesn't exactly fit that bill.
> 
> And if you have a 60Hz display, it's hard to justify anything, honestly. Everything feels the same anyway


I do want to have 6000 MHz and use my system to its full potential - that's why I bought this kit. It's only that the lockup during every single cold boot is extremely annoying. I'm trying to find the tradeoff.  If I have to lose 5% game performance that I don't notice anyway (I have a 60 Hz display), then so be it, I guess. Not ideal, but not bad.

If anyone has a better solution (maybe I need to manually do something with my voltages), please shout up!


----------



## freeagent (Nov 26, 2022)

Hey! I found pictures of my rig being used in a review, how awesome is that??

Photos were shot on an iPhone XS Max lol 

Made my day!

Thermalright Frost Commander 140 (xtremesystems.org)

Down in the AMD part 

Edit:

I had the cooler upside down without knowing it at the time, that is why it is so close to the pcie slot. Turn it around and you can stick a couple fingers in there 

But all of those Strix shots and case shots with my 120x38s and 980 Classified, those are all me


----------



## AusWolf (Nov 26, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Hey! I found pictures of my rig being used in a review, how awesome is that??
> 
> Photos were shot on an iPhone XS Max lol
> 
> ...


I would claim for unauthorized use of intellectual property if I were you.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 26, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> I would claim for unauthorized use of intellectual property if I were you.


Ehh.. I don’t mind


----------



## Mussels (Nov 27, 2022)

It seems my 5800x3D greatly prefers my new alphacool block over my EK block







sure it hasnt been running long, but the heat would build up fast on the EK - look at that lack of spread


Although at present it looks like frodo needs to drop the one ring into it


----------



## freeagent (Nov 28, 2022)

Nice and tight

Mine is just a little looser after 30 mins


----------



## MagnyCours (Nov 28, 2022)

Updated my BIOS from version F6B to F7A. After the update, my previously stable memory OC settings were suddenly giving me all kinds of issues (unable to POST, freezing in BIOS, Windows memory_management BSOD, etc.)

Turns out this setting was the culprit:

It was set on "Auto" on the newest BIOS, which probably meant that it was Enabled by default. So I disabled it and all the issues I had were gone! It was probably causing all kinds of memory training issues when it was enabled.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 28, 2022)

cross-posting this into another thread, but awww-yis
Nothing like cooling that works properly, and power efficent gaming (R23 for 30 minutes, 2 hours of 4k140 gaming and then an hour of TPU)

No more random 80C spikes, that was apparently something to do with the EK block






(That 633W spike when the FPS limiter wasn't active yet and afterburner wasnt limiting things tho, oops XD)


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 28, 2022)

MagnyCours said:


> Updated my BIOS from version F6A to F7B. After the update, my previously stable memory OC settings were suddenly giving me all kinds of issues (unable to POST, freezing in BIOS, Windows memory_management BSOD, etc.)
> 
> Turns out this setting was the culprit:
> 
> It was set on "Auto" on the newest BIOS, which probably meant that it was Enabled by default. So I disabled it and all the issues I had were gone! It was probably causing all kinds of memory training issues when it was enabled.



Is this a new AGESA feature to address long AM5 POST times? Seems like a good solution......if it worked...lol


----------



## MagnyCours (Nov 28, 2022)

It probably is! I did notice that boots on restarts were almost instantaneous when the setting was enabled, but it was unstable as hell so.... back to 30 sec. long POST times for me.


----------



## Chomiq (Nov 28, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> I gave it a shot once, took over an hour and a half (with two restarts) only to fail at 99% which then had me restart from scratch after reboot.
> 
> Instead I stick to -15 on silver/gold cores and -10 on everything else.


And of course two days after I posted this I got WHEA reboot on Core 3 (gold). All core -10 it is.

Honestly, curve optimizer is a PITA, it can be stable for weeks and yet somehow you run into a random reboot in hour 6 of gaming session.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 28, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> And of course two days after I posted this I got WHEA reboot on Core 3 (gold). All core -10 it is.
> 
> Honestly, curve optimizer is a PITA, it can be stable for weeks and yet somehow you run into a random reboot in hour 6 of gaming session.



Done any proper testing with corecycler, OCCT or ycruncher?

The cores ratings don't really have anything to do with how much offset they can run, that's different for every core on every CPU sample, you gotta test. My 5900X did -2 and -5 on its best cores, yet the next best core took -30 and clocked higher than the preferred cores. My old 5700G did -10 across the board, my new one does -15. My 5800X3D does -25 all cores.


----------



## AusWolf (Nov 28, 2022)

MagnyCours said:


> Updated my BIOS from version F6B to F7A. After the update, my previously stable memory OC settings were suddenly giving me all kinds of issues (unable to POST, freezing in BIOS, Windows memory_management BSOD, etc.)
> 
> Turns out this setting was the culprit:
> 
> It was set on "Auto" on the newest BIOS, which probably meant that it was Enabled by default. So I disabled it and all the issues I had were gone! It was probably causing all kinds of memory training issues when it was enabled.


That setting has given me trouble with my MSi board too.



tabascosauz said:


> Is this a new AGESA feature to address long AM5 POST times? Seems like a good solution......if it worked...lol


It's in my board's BIOS since launch.


----------



## Chomiq (Nov 28, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Done any proper testing with corecycler, OCCT or ycruncher?
> 
> The cores ratings don't really have anything to do with how much offset they can run, that's different for every core on every CPU sample, you gotta test. My 5900X did -2 and -5 on its best cores, yet the next best core took -30 and clocked higher than the preferred cores. My old 5700G did -10 across the board, my new one does -15. My 5800X3D does -25 all cores.


Well duh, obviously I haven't 

Thanks for the tip, I'll give it a go. Already got myself corecycler, boosttester and PBO2 tuner.


----------



## AusWolf (Nov 30, 2022)

Now I started having random system restarts with no definite trace in the event viewer. I'm getting the feeling that either my motherboard, or my RAM is faulty. Or could it be the CPU?

Why did I decide to give MSi another chance after being burned so many times?!


----------



## Mussels (Dec 1, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Now I started having random system restarts with no definite trace in the event viewer. I'm getting the feeling that either my motherboard, or my RAM is faulty. Or could it be the CPU?
> 
> Why did I decide to give MSi another chance after being burned so many times?!


Tried lowering the mem clock/IF to see if it helps?

XMP on, but then lower it to something between XMP and JEDEC


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 1, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Now I started having random system restarts with no definite trace in the event viewer. I'm getting the feeling that either my motherboard, or my RAM is faulty. Or could it be the CPU?
> 
> Why did I decide to give MSi another chance after being burned so many times?!



Is your RAM actually stable in TM5? At least 3 cycles 1usmusv3 to get a rough idea. Shouldn't take u more than an hour


----------



## Tech_fanatic (Dec 1, 2022)

MagnyCours said:


> Updated my BIOS from version F6B to F7A. After the update, my previously stable memory OC settings were suddenly giving me all kinds of issues (unable to POST, freezing in BIOS, Windows memory_management BSOD, etc.)
> 
> Turns out this setting was the culprit:
> 
> It was set on "Auto" on the newest BIOS, which probably meant that it was Enabled by default. So I disabled it and all the issues I had were gone! It was probably causing all kinds of memory training issues when it was enabled.


I have also installed the latest BIOS from the OEM. The motherboard takes 30sec plus just for the memory training and for the boot screen to appear on any memory setting other than the stock JEDEC 4800. This happens even with the XMP3 profile of 6000 on every boot/reboot. So I am forced to stay with 4800 atm. Also there is no such setting on my motherboard for memory as shown in your screenshot. Can't wait 30 secs just for the monitor to turn ON. Come on Ryzen community let's get this to AMD asap


----------



## MagnyCours (Dec 1, 2022)

Mine is nested inside the AMD CBS menu. I'll post some pictures below, hope it'll help find yours.


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 1, 2022)

MagnyCours said:


> Mine is nested inside the AMD CBS menu. I'll post some pictures below, hope it'll help find yours.



This one of those times I wish GB and Asrock would get with the times and add a search function to their BIOS, like Asus and MSI have done for years


----------



## Tech_fanatic (Dec 1, 2022)

MagnyCours said:


> Mine is nested inside the AMD CBS menu. I'll post some pictures below, hope it'll help find yours.


Will dig through the BIOS and find out as per you screenshots. Let's see if it proves helpful for my case. Thanks 



tabascosauz said:


> This one of those times I wish GB and Asrock would get with the times and add a search function to their BIOS, like Asus and MSI have done for years


Yes many useful settings are hidden under layers and layers of options and these modern BIOSes with a myriad of parameters don't help either.


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 1, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Tried lowering the mem clock/IF to see if it helps?
> 
> XMP on, but then lower it to something between XMP and JEDEC


I'll try, but then 1. what's the point of XMP / EXPO / my motherboard supporting 6000 MHz, if it actually doesn't work? 2. Why does it randomly reboot with JEDEC? 



tabascosauz said:


> Is your RAM actually stable in TM5? At least 3 cycles 1usmusv3 to get a rough idea. Shouldn't take u more than an hour


TM5? Where do I get that? Is it any better than the Windows built-in memory diagnostic tool?


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 1, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> TM5? Where do I get that? Is it any better than the Windows built-in memory diagnostic tool?



all the configs u need are in the zip. Delete MT.cfg and cfg.link, rename your choice of config to MT.cfg, and run as admin

Memory Testing with TestMem5 TM5 with custom configs | Overclock.net

nobody uses windows memory diagnostic tool in oc lol, memtests need to hit both mem controller and mem hard to be effective


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 1, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> all the configs u need are in the zip. Delete MT.cfg and cfg.link, rename your choice of config to MT.cfg, and run as admin
> 
> Memory Testing with TestMem5 TM5 with custom configs | Overclock.net
> 
> nobody uses windows memory diagnostic tool in oc lol, memtests need to hit both mem controller and mem hard to be effective


The link says "Server error occurred." 

Edit: Never mind. I downloaded it from Edge (my Chrome adblock makes mistakes sometimes). Unpacking it now. 

Edit 2: It went quicker than expected...





Does this mean it's safe to conclude that my RAM is okay, but my motherboard is a PoS?


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 1, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> The link says "Server error occurred."
> 
> Edit: Never mind. I downloaded it from Edge (my Chrome adblock makes mistakes sometimes). Unpacking it now.
> 
> ...



1usmusv3 is the quick test, usually that's followed up by Extreme1 or absolut or more cycles of v3.

But yeah, pretty clear it's not unstable to the point of rebooting. Something else is going on.

Are you still running 4800 right now? Send ur zentimings

Does Cstates disabled make it go away?


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 1, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> 1usmusv3 is the quick test, usually that's followed up by Extreme1 or absolut or more cycles of v3.
> 
> But yeah, pretty clear it's not unstable to the point of rebooting. Something else is going on.
> 
> ...


This is at EXPO 6000 MHz (I figured double booting at cold start is better than random restarts).





I haven't tried disabling C-states. It would suck if I had to do that just to run my CPU and RAM at stock without any instability.


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 1, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> This is at EXPO 6000 MHz (I figured double booting at cold start is better than random restarts).
> 
> I haven't tried disabling C-states. It would suck if I had to do that just to run my CPU and RAM at stock without any instability.



Wait... that's not what it's supposed to look like. Any error messages at program startup? I thought the program was updated for AM5 support a long time ago. Can't find any screenshots on AM5 - anyone able to run it?

Well, Cstates off is not ideal but it was a necessity on one of my CPUs, otherwise both the cores and Fabric were each unstable enough to cause me random reboots


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 1, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Wait... that's not what it's supposed to look like. Any error messages at program startup? I thought the program was updated for AM5 support a long time ago. Can't find any screenshots on AM5 - anyone able to run it?
> 
> Well, Cstates off is not ideal but it was a necessity on one of my CPUs, otherwise both the cores and Fabric were each unstable enough to cause me random reboots


It says "Could not get power table, skipping." I guess it hasn't been updated for AM5, yet (I just downloaded the latest version I could find).

Here it is at JEDEC stock. I also tried running a TM5, but it threw errors straight away.


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 1, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> It says "Could not get power table, skipping." I guess it hasn't been updated for AM5, yet (I just downloaded the latest version I could find).
> 
> Here it is at JEDEC stock. I also tried running a TM5, but it threw errors straight away.
> View attachment 272511



I suspect its not updated for the latest AGESAs yet, here's the only other screenie I've ever found



errored out at JEDEC??? that's a first

Can you get your UCLK and FCLK from elsewhere? I don't remember, was it 2000FCLK and 1500UCLK?


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 1, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> I suspect its not updated for the latest AGESAs yet, here's the only other screenie I've ever found
> 
> View attachment 272513
> 
> ...


Yep, error at JEDEC, but runs fine at EXPO. 

It is 2000/1500 at EXPO. I can't remember what it was at JEDEC, but one of them was 2400, I think.

Edit: I just checked, JEDEC sets FCLK to 2000 and UCLK to 2400. I'm guessing UCLK is a bit on the high side with this one.


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 1, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Yep, error at JEDEC, but runs fine at EXPO.
> 
> It is 2000/1500 at EXPO. I can't remember what it was at JEDEC, but one of them was 2400, I think.
> 
> Edit: I just checked, JEDEC sets FCLK to 2000 and UCLK to 2400. I'm guessing UCLK is a bit on the high side with this one.



Did you ever end up testing say, 2600-2800 UCLK at 5200-5600? Mem controller might be a bit weak on your sample, considering you were pushing like 1.35V VSOC on EXPO and couldn't do 3000UCLK.


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 1, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Did you ever end up testing say, 2600-2800 UCLK at 5200-5600? Mem controller might be a bit weak on your sample, considering you were pushing like 1.35V VSOC on EXPO and couldn't do 3000UCLK.


I haven't tried that yet, but that might be the way (unless I give up on this joke of a motherboard altogether - I'm very close to that point). Or maybe I could try manually lowering UCLK at JEDEC, and see if it's stable.

I also don't know why Auto sets VSOC to 1.35 V with 1500 UCLK at EXPO. Such high voltage with such low UCLK makes no sense to me.


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 1, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> I haven't tried that yet, but that might be the way (unless I give up on this joke of a motherboard altogether - I'm very close to that point). Or maybe I could try manually lowering UCLK at JEDEC, and see if it's stable.
> 
> I also don't know why Auto sets VSOC to 1.35 V with 1500 UCLK at EXPO. Such high voltage with such low UCLK makes no sense to me.



I think the UMC is like Intel's IMC, it can only be in ratios to MCLK (memory speed). So you either get 1500 or 3000MHz at 6000. Fabric is different and can be whatever you want it to be. So if 1:1 doesn't work, 1500 is the fallback.

Igor thinks 1.45V is the limit for VSOC, but idk where he got that number. Kinda weird considering the voltages he lists under 1.45V come from different domains. The Vcore numbers just look made up


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 2, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> I think the UMC is like Intel's IMC, it can only be in ratios to MCLK (memory speed). So you either get 1500 or 3000MHz at 6000. Fabric is different and can be whatever you want it to be. So if 1:1 doesn't work, 1500 is the fallback.


You're right, it's either 1:1 or 1:2 relative to memory clock.



tabascosauz said:


> Igor thinks 1.45V is the limit for VSOC, but idk where he got that number. Kinda weird considering the voltages he lists under 1.45V come from different domains. The Vcore numbers just look made up
> 
> View attachment 272522


That looks alright to me, to be fair. This is what I get with EXPO on:




Another topic: Now the "Sleep" option has completely disappeared from Windows for some reason (I can't even bring it back from the Control Panel), which is apparently governed by some elusive option in the BIOS and I can't find which one. Hibernate is there, Sleep isn't. God, I hate this motherboard!


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 2, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Another topic: Now the "Sleep" option has completely disappeared from Windows for some reason (I can't even bring it back from the Control Panel), which is apparently governed by some elusive option in the BIOS and I can't find which one. Hibernate is there, Sleep isn't. God, I hate this motherboard!



Have you tried powercfg -restoredefaultschemes? Are the other power plans the same?

I was also missing a few of those options like fast startup and hibernate. I think it went away with a clean install, previous install was from 5900X and had been around for most of the year


----------



## Mussels (Dec 2, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> You're right, it's either 1:1 or 1:2 relative to memory clock.
> 
> 
> That looks alright to me, to be fair. This is what I get with EXPO on:
> ...


sleep is a C-state, if you disable them you lose it


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 2, 2022)

Mussels said:


> sleep is a C-state, if you disable them you lose it



Disabling global cstates neither prevents sleep from working nor removes it from control panel


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## Mussels (Dec 2, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Disabling global cstates neither prevents sleep from working nor removes it from control panel


One of the settings like that does

let me google which one it is, it's not something i've had to bother with (coil whine with C-states was a huge issue in the x58 days on gigabyte boards, so it's been a few years since i've dealt with the systems and this issue)

*Disabling page file can be related with the weird combinations of sleep/hibernate and fast startup
*Certain BIOS settings definitely disable sleep states/hibernate

Edit: Oh it's S-states not C-States, simple enough why i misremembered that one


More edits:
*UEFI issues with GPU's can cause it
*Missing drivers for GPU/network/audio hardware can cause it

Hah
AMD EXPO profile on X670E Taichi Carrara removes sleep option in Windows : ASRock (reddit.com)


> > Currently, it’s expected behavior that the S3 (sleep mode) option disappears when loading the XMP profile or EXPO profile on the AM5 platform.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I love AM4, but AM5 is a mess at present


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## AusWolf (Dec 2, 2022)

Mussels said:


> One of the settings like that does
> 
> let me google which one it is, it's not something i've had to bother with (coil whine with C-states was a huge issue in the x58 days on gigabyte boards, so it's been a few years since i've dealt with the systems and this issue)
> 
> ...


So I can have JEDEC with lots of instability, system restarts and potential need for tweaking, or EXPO with a hang-up during cold boot and no Sleep option in Windows. Wonderful.

Or I could buy a better quality motherboard and hope that at least some of my problems go away.


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 2, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> So I can have JEDEC with lots of instability, system restarts and potential need for tweaking, or EXPO with a hang-up during cold boot and no Sleep option in Windows. Wonderful.
> 
> Or I could buy a better quality motherboard and hope that at least some of my problems go away.



Are there even any 8-layer mATX boards though, that aren't the Aorus Pro or the Gene? TUF, Elite and the MSI boards are 6-layer options. I'm not sure I'd trust any of those with any DDR5 OC whatsoever. CPU UMC and AGESA are still up in the air and could be responsible for what's going on.

Though, if you don't start checking off the list, I supposed the list never gets any smaller. I guess trying another board couldn't hurt if you can return it.

edit: Aorus Elite is also an 8-layer


----------



## Mussels (Dec 2, 2022)

Don't forget that you have an MSI board and the one I linked is asrock

It may be happening to more boards than it seems, or it may be those two are just slow with AGESA updates


edit: I shoulda read the post further:


> Update 2:
> 
> BIOS 1.11.AS03 solves the issue



Ya need a oopdate your agussy





some people are having instability issues waking from sleep even with the updates, but anyone with unstable ram runs that risk (especially with Vdroop issues on SoC or DRAM voltages)


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 2, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Are there even any 8-layer mATX boards though, that aren't the Aorus Pro or the Gene? TUF, Elite and the MSI boards are 6-layer options. I'm not sure I'd trust any of those with any DDR5 OC whatsoever. CPU UMC and AGESA are still up in the air and could be responsible for what's going on.
> 
> Though, if you don't start checking off the list, I supposed the list never gets any smaller. I guess trying another board couldn't hurt if you can return it.


I was actually thinking of the Asus TUF. I know it's a 6-layer one, but it has more than decent VRM, has my exact RAM on its compatibility list, and I've never had any problem with any TUF board before.

I'm not sure if I can send this one back on the basis of not liking its quirks, but I'm slowly getting to the point when I'd rather pay full price just to be done with this crap. 



Mussels said:


> Don't forget that you have an MSI board and the one I linked is asrock
> 
> It may be happening to more boards than it seems, or it may be those two are just slow with AGESA updates
> 
> ...


MSi isn't just slow with the updates, but their updates don't even work. When I tried updating to BIOS v14 (I'm on v13 now), the update tool said "the BIOS file can't be loaded because it's not from MSi". Even if I succeeded, v14 still has the same AGESA 1.0.0.3 patch A as the current v13, while the Asus TUF is already on patch A+D since last week.

I can't believe how shit MSi's quality and support is, and I can't believe I gave them another chance after having been on the same conclusion in the past.


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 2, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> I was actually thinking of the Asus TUF. I know it's a 6-layer one, but it has more than decent VRM, has my exact RAM on its compatibility list, and I've never had any problem with any TUF board before.
> 
> I'm not sure if I can send this one back on the basis of not liking its quirks, but I'm slowly getting to the point when I'd rather pay full price just to be done with this crap.
> 
> ...



Instinct says your symptoms don't *feel* like a board topology problem, more a UMC problem, but it's close enough to the edge of what 6-layer DDR5 can do so idk. If you really trust igors numbers, you can bump up to say 1.4V to try and push 2000FCLK and 3000UCLK. Otherwise I really think it's worth it for you to try 5200/5600 1:1, Raphael is not a mem OC beast anyway.

Or, try a 6000 kit that's something decent like Hynix M or A.

Funnily enough my Unify-X also began falling apart at the seams recently. Fan headers starting to die, some BIOS settings not working, sometimes boots to BIOS. Can't be bothered to RMA


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 2, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Instinct says your symptoms don't *feel* like a board topology problem, more a UMC problem, but it's close enough to the edge of what 6-layer DDR5 can do so idk. If you really trust igors numbers, you can bump up to say 1.4V to try and push 2000FCLK and 3000UCLK. Otherwise I really think it's worth it for you to try 5200/5600 1:1, Raphael is not a mem OC beast anyway.


The reason why it feels like a board problem to me is that EXPO runs rock solid once it's booted up - I just have to do my double boot trick every time. 1.36 V SoC with 2000/1500 FCLK/UCLK shouldn't be a problem anyway, considering that it manages to boot (albeit, with random restarts) even with 1.05 V SoC, 2000/2400 FCLK/UCLK (that's what JEDEC defaults to).

Edit: Or maybe I should go back to JEDEC and bump the SoC voltage up a notch? I don't think I could do 3000 UCLK with this configuration (either my CPU, or my board won't take it).



tabascosauz said:


> Funnily enough my Unify-X also began falling apart at the seams recently. Fan headers starting to die, some BIOS settings not working, sometimes boots to BIOS. Can't be bothered to RMA


But that sounds more of an RMA-able issue than mine.


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 2, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> The reason why it feels like a board problem to me is that EXPO runs rock solid once it's booted up - I just have to do my double boot trick every time. 1.36 V SoC with 2000/1500 FCLK/UCLK shouldn't be a problem anyway, considering that it manages to boot (albeit, with random restarts) even with 1.05 V SoC, 2000/2400 FCLK/UCLK (that's what JEDEC defaults to).
> 
> Edit: Or maybe I should go back to JEDEC and bump the SoC voltage up a notch? I don't think I could do 3000 UCLK with this configuration (either my CPU, or my board won't take it).
> 
> But that sounds more of an RMA-able issue than mine.



Didn't you say JEDEC was failing TM5? maybe add a bit of VDIMM at 4800 and see what happens. Bit more VSOC probably helps too since you have faster UCLK at JEDEC than expo lol

The Gene is looking so sad, what an absolute unit of a OC board just sitting around collecting dust while the Raphael UMC trips over itself as soon as it touches DDR5. Meanwhile 13th gen can do it, but doesn't have a decent matx board to do it on

You are right of course, it's just that I paid so much on shipping to RMA the B550I Aorus AX (twice!) that I just don't want to do it again


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 2, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Didn't you say JEDEC was failing TM5? maybe add a bit of VDIMM at 4800 and see what happens. Bit more VSOC probably helps too since you have faster UCLK at JEDEC than expo lol
> 
> The Gene is looking so sad, what an absolute unit of a OC board just sitting around collecting dust while the Raphael UMC trips over itself as soon as it touches DDR5. Meanwhile 13th gen can do it, but doesn't have a decent matx board to do it on
> 
> You are right of course, it's just that I paid so much on shipping to RMA the B550I Aorus AX (twice!) that I just don't want to do it again


Yes. JEDEC is failing TM5 and reboots randomly, while EXPO fails to boot on first try when cold, but is stable otherwise.

I don't think the RAM has any issues running at JEDEC - why would it? It's a 6000 kit, after all - but a bit more SoC voltage could help. Or maybe switching back to 1:2 mode and 1200 MHz UCLK. 

I don't see the Gene at UK stores. If I decide to ditch this crappy thing, my options will be the ASRock Riptide, the Asus TUF, or the Gigabyte Aorus Elite. The Riptide seems suspiciously cheap, and I'm not a big fan of Gigabyte, so I'm left with the TUF as the only choice. There's also the Asus Prime and Gigabyte Gaming X, but they both look even more poorly equipped than my current MSi Pro.

I know that feeling with the RMA.  I RMAd two MSi boards last year (they were the same model, though)... that's why I can't comprehend why I trusted this joke of a brand again.


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## tabascosauz (Dec 2, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Yes. JEDEC is failing TM5 and reboots randomly, while EXPO fails to boot on first try when cold, but is stable otherwise.
> 
> I don't think the RAM has any issues running at JEDEC - why would it? It's a 6000 kit, after all - but a bit more SoC voltage could help. Or maybe switching back to 1:2 mode and 1200 MHz UCLK.
> 
> ...



The Gene is $600 lol, do you actually wanna spend that much   I only brought it up as it's got the layer count advantage (+ 1DPC advantage!) along with the Gigabytes. Gaming X and DS3H excluded of course, those two are not only 6 layer but sus as hell VRM

I'm sure the 8-layers and Gene will start pulling ahead when next gen CPUs have actual mem OC capabilities, but Raphael is currently holding all the boards back 

I won't say that TM5 *can't* catch UMC/Fabric related instability, but if it's printing errors off like mad and rebooting then it's most likely the RAM profile that isn't stable. VDIMM and VSOC are both low by default at JEDEC right?


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## AusWolf (Dec 2, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> The Gene is $600 lol, do you actually wanna spend that much


Oh Jesus, NO! I'd much rather boot twice at every cold start, thanks. 



tabascosauz said:


> I won't say that TM5 *can't* catch UMC/Fabric related instability, but if it's printing errors off like mad and rebooting then it's most likely the RAM profile that isn't stable. VDIMM and VSOC are both low by default at JEDEC right?


I think they're 1 V or 1.05 V or something like that along with the SoC.

Edit: Oh wait, no. This is my JEDEC profile (I forgot that I took a picture earlier):


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## tabascosauz (Dec 3, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Oh Jesus, NO! I'd much rather boot twice at every cold start, thanks.
> 
> I think they're 1 V or 1.05 V or something like that along with the SoC.
> 
> Edit: Oh wait, no. This is my JEDEC profile (I forgot that I took a picture earlier):



Interesting how your UCLK defaults to 2400 1:1 and FCLK to 2000 at JEDEC though. I'm not sure that's supposed to happen? They said default Fabric is 1733 for Raphael. I would think that 1733 FCLK would provide a safe and reliable fallback, but that's just me.

Considering the alleged extra VSOC headroom, seems like you could easily add some VSOC and see what happens. 

Might want to play with your VSOC LLC too. Not sure what the board is setting at JEDEC but I doubt it's defaulting to a weird number like 1.03V. 

Could also mess with PLL (CPU 1P8) maybe up to 1.9 or 1.95. Doesn't look like that feature has changed much.


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## Mussels (Dec 3, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> I was actually thinking of the Asus TUF. I know it's a 6-layer one, but it has more than decent VRM, has my exact RAM on its compatibility list, and I've never had any problem with any TUF board before.


Asus x570 Tuf boards were their absolute worst, missing BIOS features, overheating chipsets, chipset fans with no control locked at 3K RPM at all times (leading to the myth all ryzen boards did that) and terrible ram clocking


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## freeagent (Dec 3, 2022)

I bought a TUF board once from Newegg. It was DOA. But! I could not believe what I was holding. It felt like such a cheap board. It was dead though, so it really was a piece of junk 

I like Asus boards, but the quality of that board was subpar.


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 3, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Interesting how your UCLK defaults to 2400 1:1 and FCLK to 2000 at JEDEC though. I'm not sure that's supposed to happen? They said default Fabric is 1733 for Raphael. I would think that 1733 FCLK would provide a safe and reliable fallback, but that's just me.
> 
> Considering the alleged extra VSOC headroom, seems like you could easily add some VSOC and see what happens.
> 
> ...


I had a feeling that 2400 UCLK is a bit high, so I dropped it back to 1:2 at 1200, and I couldn't even boot into Windows without a blue screen error. Now I understand how this works even less. 

Next, I'll try adding a bit more voltage to the SoC and RAM at JEDEC. 1.2 V should do. If it errors out again, I'll be even more puzzled.

Maybe the best (or least bad) option is to leave it at EXPO and double boot every time. 

Edit: TM5 successfully finished at JEDEC 4800 MHz, 1.2 V SoC, 1.2 V RAM, 2000/2400 FCLK/UCLK. It looks like my board's sweet spot is around this... until maybe a BIOS update that actually runs... or until I decide to give up and buy something better.

Edit 2: Again, no errors in TM5 at 5000 MHz, 1.2 V RAM, Auto timings (which are quite crap with CL 42, but whatever), 2000/2500 FCLK/UCLK, but with Auto = 1.065 V SoC. I think it's safe to conclude that 6000 MHz EXPO is a bit too much for this motherboard, even though it officially supports it with single sided DIMMs (aka. it's a piece of MSi crap), but the standard 1.1 V isn't enough for my RAM at JEDEC.

Edit 3 (I'll really stop now): Another stable run at 4800 MHz Jedec, VSoc Auto = 1.02 V, RAM at 1.15 V. I've noticed that HWinfo shows 1.14 V as RAM voltage, so my next suspicion is that it probably isn't stable at JEDEC with stock voltages because something's off with the motherboard's LLC and the RAM voltage drops too far below 1.1 V which I have to manually compensate. I'll just leave it at 1.15 V @ JEDEC for now.

I've got my plan: I'll wait a month or two for MSi to update their BIOS for better EXPO support. If they won't bother, or if I can't install the update like I couldn't install v14, then I'll buy the Asus TUF later.



Mussels said:


> Asus x570 Tuf boards were their absolute worst, missing BIOS features, overheating chipsets, chipset fans with no control locked at 3K RPM at all times (leading to the myth all ryzen boards did that) and terrible ram clocking


X570 was kind of a hit and miss altogether, imo. I had the B550 TUF, and the Intel B560 TUF in micro-ATX flavour - both are excellent boards.



freeagent said:


> I bought a TUF board once from Newegg. It was DOA. But! I could not believe what I was holding. It felt like such a cheap board. It was dead though, so it really was a piece of junk
> 
> I like Asus boards, but the quality of that board was subpar.


Yeah, old TUF products were quite cheaply made, but the brand has come a long way since then.


----------



## AsRock (Dec 4, 2022)

Finally got my mobo, Amazon f ing around again haha. Next be some voltage tweaks.


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## AusWolf (Dec 4, 2022)

AsRock said:


> Finally got my mobo, Amazon f ing around again haha. Next be some voltage tweaks.
> 
> 
> View attachment 272939


3000 UCLK at 1.24 VSoC! 

Either you have a golden sample, or my motherboard is really crap.


----------



## MagnyCours (Dec 4, 2022)

Mine also does without problems! I think EXPO automatically sets 1.25v~1.35v VSoC for 6000MHz, well, my motherboard does at least. Though AMD did claim that 6000 is the "sweet spot" for Ryzen 7000, so it is kind of odd that you're having lots of trouble running it.


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## AusWolf (Dec 4, 2022)

MagnyCours said:


> Mine also does without problems! I think EXPO automatically sets 1.25v~1.35v VSoC for 6000MHz, well, my motherboard does at least. Though AMD did claim that 6000 is the "sweet spot" for Ryzen 7000, so it is kind of odd that you're having lots of trouble running it.
> 
> View attachment 272971


Mine sets 1.36 VSoC, but drops UCLK back to 1:2 at 1500. Then comes the hang-up during cold boot, needing me to turn the PC off and on again. If I set UCLK to 1:1 at 3000, it won't even boot at all.

I think my motherboard is a piece of crap without a doubt.


----------



## Super Firm Tofu (Dec 4, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Mine sets 1.36 VSoC, but drops UCLK back to 1:2 at 1500. Then comes the hang-up during cold boot, needing me to turn the PC off and on again. If I set UCLK to 1:1 at 3000, it won't even boot at all.
> 
> I think my motherboard is a piece of crap without a doubt.



My gut tells me it's your memory.  I'm Running 2000:3000:3000 at 1.02v SoC.  Any chance you can get another set of RAM to test with?


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 5, 2022)

Super Firm Tofu said:


> My gut tells me it's your memory.  I'm Running 2000:3000:3000 at 1.02v SoC.  Any chance you can get another set of RAM to test with?
> 
> View attachment 273008


It might be the memory, considering it has trouble running at JEDEC with stock voltage. Although it is fine at 1.15 V.

I still think it is the motherboard, though.

When I set the RAM to run at 1.15 V, HWinfo reports 1.14 V. If it can only run at no less than 1.1 V, and the motherboard drops below that, it can cause problems. That is, something's up with the stock LLC options.

The other thing is the SoC voltage. If you can run 3000 UCLK with 1.02 VSoC, then there's no way the motherboard should apply 1.36 V just to run the RAM at 6000 with 1500 UCLK, but mine does for some reason.

Unfortunately, I'm the first and only one with DDR5 in my circle, so I can't test it unless I buy another kit.


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 5, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> It might be the memory, considering it has trouble running at JEDEC with stock voltage. Although it is fine at 1.15 V.
> 
> I still think it is the motherboard, though.
> 
> ...



Some variance in set and reported VDIMM is to be expected on any motherboard. Most vendors except Gigabyte are usually ±0.01V. Don't take HWInfo at its word either, only a multimeter will tell you for sure.

I don't think @Super Firm Tofu 's 1.02V VSOC is EXPO default, probably an optimal number reached after testing. The others are also setting 1.25V automatically. Silicon quality is at play there and just cause others can do 1.02V @ 3000 doesn't mean yours can (sadly).

If you can pass linpack and memory-biased ycruncher tests in addition to the TM5 testing you've already done, it's a pretty clear indicator that your RAM is just fine, and your board is probably not the issue either. Generally boards running into absolute memory limits will make it pretty obvious they're not happy, and you will not be able to have a good time at 6000.

Which is why it'll be very telling if you do some 1:1 testing at 5200/5400/5600/5800 - if UCLK runs into a brick wall at any one of those speeds then you're just running into the memory controller's limits. At this point AMD saying "sweet spot" is code for "good luck lol"


----------



## Mussels (Dec 5, 2022)

igralec84 said:


> I'm not getting any WHEA or bug check errors in event viewer, the crashes also don't seem to be logged as they're like hard resets, the only errors that seem to be happening are:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't seem like they were happening with the 7600X. I did have to reset my PIN at first 2 logins after fitting the 7950X, so not sure if there's some kind of fTPM or security issue or just over-optimistic PBO/CO. Or shit ASrock BIOS. Memtest does 3500% with the current settings so it's probably not the memory as i ran it like that for weeks before.


Saw this error on my 5800x system, googled it, got your post. damned useless errors.

Eventually the google and reddit rabbit hole found out it's a leftover error from thaiphoon burners service
In an admin CMD prompt you need to run
sc delete ssdgio


----------



## igralec84 (Dec 5, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Saw this error on my 5800x system, googled it, got your post. damned useless errors.
> 
> Eventually the google and reddit rabbit hole found out it's a leftover error from thaiphoon burners service
> In an admin CMD prompt you need to run
> sc delete ssdgio



Thank you for this, it worked and the error is now gone. Never checked how long it's been happening but probably since last summer when i installed it to use the DRAM calculator and then forgot about it. 

Since then i'm 95% certain my crashes / hard reboots that don't even show up on the event logs are over-optimistic CO and boost. 
When i'm bored, i run core cycler, 3dmark cpu profiler and cinebench, but it seems all core -10 and +125mhz or -13 and + 100mhz are stable or at least didn't crash in 2 days


----------



## Super Firm Tofu (Dec 5, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> It might be the memory, considering it has trouble running at JEDEC with stock voltage. Although it is fine at 1.15 V.
> 
> I still think it is the motherboard, though.
> 
> ...



Sorry - I didn't include the whole story.  Out of the box with EXPO settings, I also had 1.36 SoC, and 1500.  I had to manually change to force 3000.  I dropped SoC back to standard and ran all of the stress tests again (core cycler, TM5, y-cruncher) to make sure it was still ok.  Everything else with RAM is still EXPO standards as far as voltage/timings.  I'm also running CO at -25 all core with reduced PPT, EDC, and TDC (95w TDP mode in the BIOS).

@tabascosauz is probably right that I just lucked out with a decent sample of the 7700x.  I wish we were close so we could swap RAM to rule that out - I'd really like to see you able to get it all sorted. 



tabascosauz said:


> Which is why it'll be very telling if you do some 1:1 testing at 5200/5400/5600/5800 - if UCLK runs into a brick wall at any one of those speeds then you're just running into the memory controller's limits. At this point AMD saying "sweet spot" is code for "good luck lol"



I'd really recommend trying what @tabascosauz is recommending to see if you can get past the need for a double boot @ 6000.

Also, as far as EXPO goes, it appears to me that it's just a WalMart version of XMP where they just crank up voltages and hope for the best.  I may have gotten lucky with my specific CPU, but it wasn't plug and play by any means.

As a side note I also had a BIOS update that was supposed to 'Reduce Boot Time' and 'Increase Stability'.  Post time dropped by 3 whole seconds (down to 27 seconds whoo-hoo), and while I had no stability problems before, the new update as least hasn't introduced any new instabilities.


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 5, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Some variance in set and reported VDIMM is to be expected on any motherboard. Most vendors except Gigabyte are usually ±0.01V. Don't take HWInfo at its word either, only a multimeter will tell you for sure.
> 
> I don't think @Super Firm Tofu 's 1.02V VSOC is EXPO default, probably an optimal number reached after testing. The others are also setting 1.25V automatically. Silicon quality is at play there and just cause others can do 1.02V @ 3000 doesn't mean yours can (sadly).


I know. The weird thing is that it can't even do the standard 1500 @ 1.36 VSoC without a double boot, but it can do 2400 @ 1.02 V at JEDEC without a problem. Common sense dictates that increased voltage with decreased frequency should result in much improved stability, but common sense goes down the toilet with my setup.



tabascosauz said:


> Which is why it'll be very telling if you do some 1:1 testing at 5200/5400/5600/5800 - if UCLK runs into a brick wall at any one of those speeds then you're just running into the memory controller's limits. At this point AMD saying "sweet spot" is code for "good luck lol"


I'll do that once I have a little time to experiment.  The problem is, without a second RAM kit and/or motherboard, there's no way to know for sure if it's the RAM hitting a wall, or the motherboard quality. The only thing I can rule out this way is the memory controller (if it's not some motherboard oddity preventing it from reaching 3000, that is).



Super Firm Tofu said:


> Sorry - I didn't include the whole story.  Out of the box with EXPO settings, I also had 1.36 SoC, and 1500.  I had to manually change to force 3000.  I dropped SoC back to standard and ran all of the stress tests again (core cycler, TM5, y-cruncher) to make sure it was still ok.  Everything else with RAM is still EXPO standards as far as voltage/timings.  I'm also running CO at -25 all core with reduced PPT, EDC, and TDC (95w TDP mode in the BIOS).
> 
> @tabascosauz is probably right that I just lucked out with a decent sample of the 7700x.  I wish we were close so we could swap RAM to rule that out - I'd really like to see you able to get it all sorted.


That's nice of you.  I know myself, I'll probably end up buying an extra RAM kit, or motherboard, or something eventually just to experiment. It's only that Christmas is coming, presents need to be bought, and I'm having the days as unpaid leave (forget about a bonus at my workplace), so it'll have to wait until spring time. 



Super Firm Tofu said:


> I'd really recommend trying what @tabascosauz is recommending to see if you can get past the need for a double boot @ 6000.
> 
> Also, as far as EXPO goes, it appears to me that it's just a WalMart version of XMP where they just crank up voltages and hope for the best.  I may have gotten lucky with my specific CPU, but it wasn't plug and play by any means.
> 
> As a side note I also had a BIOS update that was supposed to 'Reduce Boot Time' and 'Increase Stability'.  Post time dropped by 3 whole seconds (down to 27 seconds whoo-hoo), and while I had no stability problems before, the new update as least hasn't introduced any new instabilities.


I'll do that. I'm also waiting on BIOS updates, but MSi seems to be quite slow with my board. I guess the Pro series isn't too high up on their list of things to fix.

It's a shame that EXPO is such a cranky thing at this point. I didn't have too high expectations, but I was kind of hoping it wouldn't be a lot more difficult to use than XMP. I guess it's true with certain systems if you don't mind a high VSoC. I also took extreme care to choose the right kit for the board. It only supports single-sided kits of two at 6000 MHz, so I made sure to pick exactly that. Although, this specific kit isn't on the official support list - as a matter of fact, there's only 3 Samsung die 6000 kits on the list, the rest are all Hynix. Maybe it isn't the board, it isn't the RAM, but the combination of the two.

Another oddity with the board is that it sometimes forgets to enable RGB, and I can't even access RGB settings from the MSi Centre. A restart doesn't help, but if I turn the PC off and on again, it works.


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 5, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> I'll do that once I have a little time to experiment.  The problem is, without a second RAM kit and/or motherboard, there's no way to know for sure if it's the RAM hitting a wall, or the motherboard quality. The only thing I can rule out this way is the memory controller (if it's not some motherboard oddity preventing it from reaching 3000, that is).
> 
> That's nice of you.  I know myself, I'll probably end up buying an extra RAM kit, or motherboard, or something eventually just to experiment. It's only that Christmas is coming, presents need to be bought, and I'm having the days as unpaid leave (forget about a bonus at my workplace), so it'll have to wait until spring time.
> 
> It's a shame that EXPO is such a cranky thing at this point. I didn't have too high expectations, but I was kind of hoping it wouldn't be a lot more difficult to use than XMP. I guess it's true with certain systems if you don't mind a high VSoC. I also took extreme care to choose the right kit for the board. It only supports single-sided kits of two at 6000 MHz, so I made sure to pick exactly that. Although, this specific kit isn't on the official support list - as a matter of fact, there's only 3 Samsung die 6000 kits on the list, the rest are all Hynix. Maybe it isn't the board, it isn't the RAM, but the combination of the two.



Hynix A should still be single rank I think?

The double RAM training might go away with a different kit. Different ICs can have different POST behaviour, my 4Gb E-die kit is always a lot slower to POST than the newer DDR4 ICs









						Corsair Vengeance RGB DDR5-6000 CL30 (AMD Expo) 2x 16 GB Review
					

Corsair's Vengeance RGB takes the AMD DDR5 platform to a sweet spot. Using the new EXPO 6000 MT/s profile that's optimized for Zen 4 and tight timings of 30-36-36-76, this kit is designed to fit right into the Corsair ecosystem to provide a great end-to-end user experience.




					www.techpowerup.com
				




BZ has a buying guide for DDR5 - like other OCers he seems to have strong opinions against not-Hynix. Makes sense, Samsung and Micron are really useless on the stronger Intel IMC


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 6, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Hynix A should still be single rank I think?
> 
> The double RAM training might go away with a different kit. Different ICs can have different POST behaviour, my 4Gb E-die kit is always a lot slower to POST than the newer DDR4 ICs
> 
> ...


My system isn't just slow to boot when EXPO is enabled. It doesn't boot at all unless I turn it off and on again. 

I guess I'm stuck with it for a while now. Christmas is coming, so I'll hold myself back from buying a new motherboard or RAM kit at least until spring. I'll have a play with what you suggested, and hopefully, MSi issues some BIOS updates as well, one of which will potentially help my case... fingers crossed.


----------



## AsRock (Dec 6, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Hynix A should still be single rank I think?
> 
> The double RAM training might go away with a different kit. Different ICs can have different POST behaviour, my 4Gb E-die kit is always a lot slower to POST than the newer DDR4 ICs
> 
> ...



Yeah that's the video i used as a guide, i never had any luck with low end Corsair ram going all the way back to the Athlon days and glad i did not get it when i build my AM4 build too as it had issue's there as well.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 6, 2022)

igralec84 said:


> Since then i'm 95% certain my crashes / hard reboots that don't even show up on the event logs are over-optimistic CO and boost


black screen crashes and sudden reboots are usually related to the SoC or undervolting
It all ties into the SoC stability in the end, as it's the RAM, PCI-E and USB ports all in one - when it errors it'd reset (the black screen, with or without it recovering) or have USB devices bing-bong

When you look at it together it comes back as "Oh yeah devices reset like they'd been unplugged and replugged, and the PC didnt like it when critical ones did that"


my original 2700x system had this all the time, and it came down to a faulty corsair RAM stick that went unstable around 35-40C at a mere 2667Mhz


----------



## Mussels (Dec 9, 2022)

Looks like Asus owners get a free ride


5800x3D ownwers have PBO unlocked in the new 4408 BIOS

Changelog of course, tells us nothing





Found on HardwareLuxx (where they've already modded the BIOS to unlock even more settings)





and reddit


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 9, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Looks like Asus owners get a free ride
> 
> 
> 5800x3D ownwers have PBO unlocked in the new 4408 BIOS
> ...



I've been running the 4303 beta for a couple days. CO and PBO. 

Not sure if anything else has changed. New SMU version and AGESA 1208 now, but publicly it was just to address vulnerabilities. Obviously I will try again to break the FCLK 1900 wall but I expect nothing


----------



## Mussels (Dec 9, 2022)

A new BIOS setting got me all moist in my panties, i'll let you guys know if it works, or just a broken unlockable option




attempt 1: (it has a few choices)
nope






tabascosauz said:


> I've been running the 4303 beta for a couple days. CO and PBO.
> 
> Not sure if anything else has changed. New SMU version and AGESA 1208 now, but publicly it was just to address vulnerabilities. Obviously I will try again to break the FCLK 1900 wall but I expect nothing


440*8* has the new stuff, not 4403

Okay so that features doesnt do anything

set what i previously had and CO doesnt seem to be working oddly enough (and it WAS working)

1.275V and 75C says stock


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 9, 2022)

Mussels said:


> A new BIOS setting got me all moist in my panties, i'll let you guys know if it works, or just a broken unlockable option
> 
> View attachment 273701
> attempt 1: (it has a few choices)
> ...



I'm pretty sure 4303 is the 1208 beta and 4408 is the release. 4303 was released through forum thread only

An external clock gen isn't something you get for free in firmware. The board has to have that hardware. It provides slightly higher BCLK oc. I know the X570 Taichi clearly advertises one (Hyper BCLK or some name like that); people saying a bunch of MSI X570s have it. Not sure why Asus exposed it in software for all boards I think the C8E has one not sure about any other C8 or Strix






PCIe redriver is another piece of hardware that is not on all boards.

It seems that these options have existed under AMD PBS for some time, just hidden because they're irrelevant to most boards.



			https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://download.asrock.com/Manual/X570D4I-2T.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiGyOfDiO37AhX7GTQIHa-DANkQFnoECCAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3uTZQ6b1AeAzQLunofLMAd


----------



## Mussels (Dec 10, 2022)

Tis all working as expected now
(And the clockgen was from the BIOS mod, the main issue is that if you go to even 100.01 you lose all boost/turbo and get locked to base clock)

Not something i'm sure is the BIOS change but might just be the CPU change, but i dont need as high an SoC voltage now and i'm tuning that in a lot lower

On the 5800x i needed ~1.13v on the SoC

I honestly didnt check and just copied the settings moving to the x3D
Re-testing on the new BIOS, and i only need 1.05v so far - testing lower to reduce wattages

voltage offset of -.061 is giving me full speed on effective clocks, seeing slightly higher wattages and temps than previous bios - but also slightly higher performance (as just about everyone is on this - people seem to love this AGESA, but its changed the curve offsets and people are needing to re-tune theirs)




Cant recall previous scores, but seems about right


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 10, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Tis all working as expected now
> (And the clockgen was from the BIOS mod, the main issue is that if you go to even 100.01 you lose all boost/turbo and get locked to base clock)



Okay that makes more sense then. BCLK should be working just fine the normal way though, it's only changing +Fmax that will kick you to base clock.

AGESA 1208 is a bit of a challenge so far. I haven't dipped below 15k so far but it's running hotter and pulling more power at the same or lower score. I was doing about 15200 @ 4.45 with 100W and at 74C, now struggling to hit that same score @ 4.4 with 110W and 80C. Exact same BIOS settings.

Better than the 1207 experience at least.

Also game perf seems lower. But I haven't yet seen any MW2 stuttering on this BIOS. Can't decide what to do.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 10, 2022)

BCLK has always broken turbo/boost on this board

Somethings definitely changed with the SoC voltages as I'm not totally stable at 1.025v - not 1.15v
This obviously helps temps and wattages - did they raise the defaults with an internal offset or something to help memory stability?


----------



## Kissamies (Dec 10, 2022)

That audio problem of mine is purely CH VII Hero's fault. Put my old B550 board back to use and audio works just like it should.

Are there any other CH VII Hero users with audio problems?


----------



## The King (Dec 10, 2022)

Kissamies said:


> That audio problem of mine is purely CH VII Hero's fault. Put my old B550 board back to use and audio works just like it should.
> 
> Are there any other CH VII Hero users with audio problems?


Are these audio stutter issues? if so they are usually related to incorrect IOD voltages. In some cases increasing it usually helps with the stutters problems.
Different boards different BIOS may need voltage settings.


----------



## Kissamies (Dec 10, 2022)

The King said:


> Are these audio stutter issues? if so they are usually related to incorrect IOD voltages. In some cases increasing it usually helps with the stutters problems.
> Different boards different BIOS may need voltage settings.


Yeah, latency issues. I put the board back to the box but I also messed around with voltages without getting rid of the stutter.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 10, 2022)

Busy day so havent finished testing yet

1.0v is boot stable at 3866, never was before
1.05v needed for actual stability, not 1.15v

still a drop, and i wonder if they really did add some secret offset to raise the voltages to boost stability (honestly the defaults always seemed too low
Current mission is to tune those voltages in as low as possible so i survive the coming 45C heatwaves



The King said:


> Are these audio stutter issues? if so they are usually related to incorrect IOD voltages. In some cases increasing it usually helps with the stutters problems.
> Different boards different BIOS may need voltage settings.


^ This

Changing my SoC voltages today, running 1.0v worked quite well with 4 WHEA errors in 3 hours - but I had 3 USB disconnects in that time, and the onboard audio went funky

Definitely look into SoC and IOD voltages


----------



## Mussels (Dec 12, 2022)

Ahah!
So solved the random "high wattage" power spikes my system was seeiung in HWinfo64 - purely a faulty battery cell in my UPS.
Was crashing out at ~300W load, with only one properly working cell it would spaz out and report briefy spikes of pretty much double what it was actually using

Currently gaming goes between 250 and 450W depending on how demanding the title is, with 275W being the 3090 and the rest between CPU and RGB 

Also looks like i've got the reduced voltages sorted out, slow WHEA errors are a pain


Too low DRAM voltage resulted in black screen crash - 1.35v wasn't enough for 3866, 1.375v is
Too low SoC resulted in WHEA errors and the most bizarre USB issues - my keyboard wouldn't notice i'd released a key for example, so i'd hold A to walk left in a game then change to D, and randomly it'd keep going left for 3-5 seconds before updating

SoC used to be 1.15v but now it's fine at 1.06v

CPU doesn't throttle effective clocks at all with -30 CO and offset of -.06 so tada, maxed out 5800x3D with minimum energy


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 12, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Ahah!
> So solved the random "high wattage" power spikes my system was seeiung in HWinfo64 - purely a faulty battery cell in my UPS.
> Was crashing out at ~300W load, with only one properly working cell it would spaz out and report briefy spikes of pretty much double what it was actually using
> 
> ...


That just gave me a thought... what if my boot hangup issue with EXPO is actually down to DRAM voltage? I mean, it's a 1.35 V kit, but what if that's not enough? It's already proved that it can't do 1.1 V at JEDEC standard 4800 MHz. I have to increase it to 1.15 V to be stable. The only reason I'm doubtful is that the system is stable at EXPO once I do the double boot.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 12, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> That just gave me a thought... what if my boot hangup issue with EXPO is actually down to DRAM voltage? I mean, it's a 1.35 V kit, but what if that's not enough? It's already proved that it can't do 1.1 V at JEDEC standard 4800 MHz. I have to increase it to 1.15 V to be stable. The only reason I'm doubtful is that the system is stable at EXPO once I do the double boot.


Only know by trying it - issues like that with new sockets/boards aren't unknown, where they may have excessive droop at boot

Maybe try changing the LLC settings on the DRAM to be more aggressive?
It may need "warm up" time to get the voltages stable, DDR5 has those integrated voltage controllers now that work differently to before


Edit: yep they're given 3.3V and drop it down themselves. This could be like the memory-holes where certain voltage settings dont math out right and go weird - like 1.35v may have issues but 1.34 and 1.36 dont


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## AusWolf (Dec 12, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Only know by trying it - issues like that with new sockets/boards aren't unknown, where they may have excessive droop at boot
> 
> Maybe try changing the LLC settings on the DRAM to be more aggressive?
> It may need "warm up" time to get the voltages stable, DDR5 has those integrated voltage controllers now that work differently to before
> ...


That's interesting... and strange.

I'll have a look and report back my findings.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 13, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> That's interesting... and strange.
> 
> I'll have a look and report back my findings.


remember that you're sending avoltage request, its digital not analogue - so theres going to be dividers and multipliers and frequencies involved and some combinations will be more stable than others

with DDR5 being so new they're running on theory and not practical experience for what combinations work


----------



## Mussels (Dec 17, 2022)

Zen3D go brrrr

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D





And Vs people with the same hardware as me:

The faster people are getting higher clocks on the CPU, because they can do Bclk OCing and i cant. even 100Mhz makes all the difference there

And ofc i can raise the 375W limit to 450W on the GPU but seriously, outside of these few benchmarks whats the use


----------



## Space Lynx (Dec 17, 2022)

Next month is going to be fun to watch unfold, I think AMD will retake the gaming CPU crown with Zen 7xxx X3D. 

I would bet money that even Intel's upcoming 6ghz chips won't even be able to beat this coming up X3D chip, but we will see soon enough.


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## AusWolf (Dec 20, 2022)

I've just updated my board to the latest BIOS from MSi (1.52), which brings AGESA 1.0.0.4 into the mix. I've enabled EXPO again to see if it helps with my double booting issue.

I've also noticed something strange:

The RAM voltage is 1.335 instead of 1.35. I didn't notice this with the original BIOS. I did a TestMem5 just to be safe - it was successful.
The SoC voltage sets to 1.36 V on auto. If I change it manually to 1.1 V, and then back to Auto, it sets to 1.2 V. Very strange behavior - like the board doesn't know what to do.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 21, 2022)

Deleted post commenting on how good MSI boards are
respectfully and hilariously disagree


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Dec 21, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Deleted post commenting on how good MSI boards are
> respectfully and hilariously disagree


There are times when I wish there was a "" reaction to posts.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 21, 2022)

Count von Schwalbe said:


> There are times when I wish there was a "" reaction to posts.


I'm not quoting deleted content or naming the poster, i dunno why they deleted

But, i have a super low opinion of MSI motherboards for a whole lot of reasons, not all ryzen specific

1. Only MSI had to release a second series of motherboards to get proper BIOS support (The MAX line with 32MB BIOS chips) - everyone else was fine with 16MB, but MSI wanted to sell more boards

2. They've had boards with overheating VRM's in every generation for years. The only brand doing worse is asrock, asus TUF are fighting hard too but staying in 3rd worst


We've had threads about it all here before

"The worst board we've ever tested, the MSI x570 pro carbon"
Crap like this is why ryzen has a poor reputation - 40W differences here with the same CPU (And yes the asus TUF is also garbage)




One example from another video is how they've designed things to give colder readings than they should with dishonest sensor readings, and slapping barely helpful heatsinks on top "Oh we got in trouble for hot VRM's so let's put material on the top to make them appear colder than they actually are"

All the other brands are within 5c, but not MSI - 25c difference because they've tried to hide how hot they'r really running




Later in that same video they showed this, with red bars indicating thermal throttling
With the MSI throttling at "just" 70c (or 90c measured on the bottom of the motherboards PCB)





They aren't exclusively terrible and at times appeared to learn their lesson: B550 for example they did quite well
Not leading the charts exclusively or anything, but solid over the entire range - and this led some people to think they would always be like this despite failing on all prior ryzen chipsets and various intel chipsets




And an older example from intel 11th gen, where you might be all "woo! MSI are running cold this time!"

Ahh no, they clocked way lower than everyone else. Nothing like a 300Mhz clock deficit despite low temps and the same wattage as everyone else
Look at the B560 tomahawk, ignoring the 65W limit and going to 265W but doing good for temps - that's the one they spam out to reviewers
Then look at the B560m bazooka, b560m pro, and pro-VDH - all throttle drastically
Theres no consistency with any of this, you never know if the boards going to ignore stock power limits and overclock,  overheat and underclock, throttle and underclock, or 






Every brand has bad boards. Every brand has a bad series.
MSI Are the only ones to consistently screw up not just their budget lines, but their premium chipsets too and it's always in new and exciting ways that make it a fucking gamble on what you're gunna get wrong


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 21, 2022)

Mussels said:


> I'm not quoting deleted content or naming the poster, i dunno why they deleted
> 
> But, i have a super low opinion of MSI motherboards for a whole lot of reasons, not all ryzen specific
> 
> ...


I don't know why Asus TUF is on your list. Sure, the brand wasn't the best at first launch, but it has come a long way since then. I've had the A520 (AMD), B550 (AMD) and B560 (Intel) micro-ATX TUF boards. The A520 is pretty basic, but gets the job done, but the other two are excellent boards. I wanted to get the B650 TUF for my current build, but it wasn't in stock anywhere, that's why I decided to give MSi another chance (I was burned with them so many times before). I wholeheartedly regret my decision. The only thing I like about this board (MSi Pro B650M-A) is that it remembers my RGB settings without having any bloatware installed (although it sometimes leaves all RGB disabled at boot for no reason). Oh, and the minimalistic, non-gamery design is quite nice, but that pleasure goes out of the window once I turn my PC on, unfortunately.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 21, 2022)

Because a lot of the TUF boards are true, true garbage?

Those same VRM lists and videos have MSI and TUF as equal worst anytime asrock fails to show up to the party
Asus TUF x570 had nasty chipset coolers with no fan control forcing the entire rumour mill about AMD's new hot chipset that needed high RPM fans to cool them

I'm not too fussed when A series budget stuff has flaws, but when its top tier chipsets and priced highly - they cant give them out with VRM's that cant handle 80% of the product stack, or with false specs (things like screwing with reported wattages/voltages)


----------



## The King (Dec 21, 2022)

Mussels said:


> I'm not quoting deleted content or naming the poster, i dunno why they deleted
> 
> But, i have a super low opinion of MSI motherboards for a whole lot of reasons, not all ryzen specific
> 
> ...


I do agree with you mostly  but you definitely not being fair putting this sort screw up on Msi only.

Asus and Gigabyte are very guilty of the exact same thing.

Look at the Asus prime and Aurous Elite boards here. I don't even look at Asus prime line boards anymore because if things like this.


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 21, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Because a lot of the TUF boards are true, true garbage?
> 
> Those same VRM lists and videos have MSI and TUF as equal worst anytime asrock fails to show up to the party
> Asus TUF x570 had nasty chipset coolers with no fan control forcing the entire rumour mill about AMD's new hot chipset that needed high RPM fans to cool them
> ...


I'll give you the point on the X570. I still hold to my opinion that the other ones I've tried are great. On a side note, I also have the TUF 6500 XT, which is as good as a 6500 XT can be. It's super quiet, super overclockable, and runs super cool.



The King said:


> I do agree with you mostly  but you definitely not being fair putting this sort screw up on Msi only.
> 
> Asus and Gigabyte are very guilty of the exact same thing.
> 
> ...


The Prime is their basic series, meant for office and HTPC use. I'd never pair one with a 3900X.


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 21, 2022)

Mussels said:


> 1. Only MSI had to release a second series of motherboards to get proper BIOS support (The MAX line with 32MB BIOS chips) - everyone else was fine with 16MB, but MSI wanted to sell more boards
> 
> 2. They've had boards with overheating VRM's in every generation for years. The only brand doing worse is asrock, asus TUF are fighting hard too but staying in 3rd worst
> 
> ...



Weird that you say you're not generalizing against MSI, by generalizing about MSI's products   the "new" MSI only came around after the X570 Pro Carbon fiasco and the release of B550 Unify, so it's a bit pointless to use Z390 MSI products to demonstrate how "bad" MSI is, isn't it?

Everything you've listed just points to the same conclusion, don't buy bottom of the barrel boards from any of the 4 vendors. I don't see how the B560 results point to MSI being "bad" either - good boards are good boards and bad boards are bad boards?

You seem to be of the belief that MSI should never be allowed to redeem itself despite overhauling itself from top to bottom after the Pro Carbon. So, by that logic, TUF will always be garbage (despite post-B550 TUFs receiving major upgrades), Strix will always be garbage (for essentially selling TUF at a marked up price for all of AM4), Gigabyte will always be garbage (because their customer support will always be worthless), and ASRock will always be garbage (for their cost-cutting on budget boards).

If you don't like them, it's perfectly ok to just say you don't like MSI, it's how I treat ASRock, instead of trying to convince people that MSI is objectively worse than anyone else.


----------



## The King (Dec 21, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> The Prime is their basic series, meant for office and HTPC use. I'd never pair one with a 3900X.


Still does not change the fact other boards basic series at cheaper prices outperforms it?

Overpriced junk then? My point exactly. Asus Prime boards are not cheaper here usually sell for more because of the Asus name tax on it.

Also goes to my point that ASUS screw up their boards as well same goes for Gigabyte and Asrock this includes Msi, who are not the only guilty party here and should not be singled out.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 21, 2022)

I never said the screwup was MSI only at all, what I said is that MSI have been screwing it up repeatedly, where other brands tend to screw up one lineup/series and then learn from it

After MSI having VRM problems on every single series for over 5 years, it's a major problem... and then some of the boards that were 'fixed' are just falsely reporting lower temperatures than they are, and throttling anyway


----------



## The King (Dec 21, 2022)

Mussels said:


> I never said the screwup was MSI only at all, what I said is that MSI have been screwing it up repeatedly, where other brands tend to screw up one lineup/series and then learn from it
> 
> After MSI having VRM problems on every single series for over 5 years, it's a major problem... and then some of the boards that were 'fixed' are just falsely reporting lower temperatures than they are, and throttling anyway


They still made some of the best B450/B550 and even now their B650 boards kicking Asus X670-E butt in most of the benchmarks in the review below.

















						MSI MPG B650 Carbon WIFI review
					

MSI has released a motherboard in the B650 series priced just right. We look at the Ryzen 7000 ready MPG B650 Carbon WIFI series, which has quad M2 slots (PCIe Gen4/Gen5) a 2.5 GigE port, and WIFI6E... Introduction




					www.guru3d.com
				















						MSI MPG B650 Carbon WiFi Motherboard Review - KitGuru
					

In this review, we are taking our first look at AMD’s new B650 chipset via the MSI B650 Carbon WiFi




					www.kitguru.net
				




Top 5 Best B660 Motherboards (Spolier 3 of the top 5 boards are MSi mobos)​


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Dec 21, 2022)

The King said:


> They still made some of the best B450/B550 and even now their B650 boards kicking Asus X670-E butt in most of the benchmarks in the review below.
> 
> View attachment 275401View attachment 275405View attachment 275406
> 
> ...


All those benches Prove are that the AUTO overclocking on MSI board's exceeds other AIB.

That doesn't make them better, the brand that's caused me the most hair pulling IS MSI, then gigabyte then asrock then Asus but yeah YMMV.

Regardless CPU benchmark figures do not make a motherboard Good.


----------



## The King (Dec 21, 2022)

TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> All those benches Prove are that the AUTO overclocking on MSI board's exceeds other AIB.


Asus, Gigabyte and even Asrock does this as well, Don't point fingers and call the kettle black.


TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> That doesn't make them better, the brand that's caused me the most hair pulling IS MSI, then gigabyte then asrock then Asus but yeah YMMV.
> 
> Regardless CPU benchmark figures do not make a motherboard Good.


We or I was talking about mobo VRM performance mainly. Your point maybe valid or true but  largely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
The main issue being criticized is MSi poor VRM performance screw ups and you talking about something completely different altogether.


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## freeagent (Dec 21, 2022)

I don’t like MSI much either. I do like Asus.. but I have had some junk boards from them too.. as noted, don’t buy bottom of the barrel or you might get burnt


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Dec 21, 2022)

The King said:


> Asus, Gigabyte and even Asrock does this as well, Don't point fingers and call the kettle black.
> 
> We or I was talking about mobo VRM performance mainly. Your point maybe valid or true but  largely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
> The main issue being criticized is MSi poor VRM performance screw ups and you talking about something completely different altogether.


Did I imply they didn't.

No, I said" that the AUTO overclocking on MSI board's exceeds other AIB." 

Your conflating CPU performance with board greatness.

My experience doesn't align with your Stance.


----------



## The King (Dec 21, 2022)

TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> Did I imply they didn't.
> 
> No, I said" that the AUTO overclocking on MSI board's exceeds other AIB."


You have absolutely 0 proof to back this statement and making unfounded assumptions that is what is going on with the performance numbers.



TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> Your conflating CPU performance with board greatness.
> 
> My experience doesn't align with your Stance.


Lets agree to disagree  since your argument has no facts or evidence to back it up.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Dec 21, 2022)

The King said:


> You have absolutely 0 proof to back this statement and making unfounded assumptions that is what is going on with the performance numbers.
> 
> 
> Lets agree to disagree  since your argument has no facts or evidence to back it up.


They're not unfounded, I'll dig out some proof later after work.

And most of what I say is based on experience, or something read, I'm not always going to back up everything I say with proof because it isn't always convenient to do so plus.

I don't care enough.

You like MSI, fine, you think they're better than others because of cinebench scores.

That's debatable as is your assertion that those benchmark prove MSI are best IMHO.


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## freeagent (Dec 21, 2022)

Well, to be fair there is more to life than benchmark scores and overclocking.. you have to live with the machine daily, so it has to be good at that first and foremost. Whatever it can do after that is just icing on the cake. I have not used MSI in many, many moons. I would be open to trying them out. Heck I was going to buy one from a fellow mod in the not so distant past.


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## The King (Dec 21, 2022)

TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> They're not unfounded, I'll dig out some proof later after work.


Not possible to accomplish this.  CPU LLC which is Auto can vary from board partner and how different Manufactures set this will affect performance.
This is why you don't get identical performance from one board to another with the same CPU.



TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> And most of what I say is based on experience, or something read, I'm not always going to back up everything I say with proof because it isn't always convenient to do so plus.
> 
> I don't care enough.
> 
> ...


Not at all.

The fact that several highly respected review sites like Hardware Unboxed, Guru3d and Kit Guru state that the MSI motherboards are very good boards and among the best is what I am going by.
Pretty sure you wont be able to change my mind but if you feel you have the time to do so. I am all cool with it.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Dec 21, 2022)

The King said:


> Not possible to accomplish this.  CPU LLC which is Auto can vary from board partner and how different Manufactures set this will affect performance.
> This is why you don't get identical performance from one board to another with the same CPU.
> 
> 
> ...


I'll save wasting my time on this debate and agree to disagree.

And I do disagree, MSI is the last on my list but as you say others think differently.

And I disagree that I couldn't find proof but I'm beyond wasting time on you or anyone, it's Christmas, time is short there are Christmas PC to build.

Oh and your the one saying cinebench scores prove MSI are best, despite Knowing that it's done via Auto setting OC's, which to me proves something different.


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Dec 21, 2022)

Let's change the subject slightly before mods get involved.

I am planning a couple of builds for a business customer using the 5800X3D, as the software they are optimizing for will most likely benefit from cache and RAM speeds over core performance. Is there any cheap motherboard that will be rock solid, offer decent RAM speed, and (preferably, not required) no RGB?

Edit: Thinking of this one:








						ASUS PRIME B550M-A AC AM4 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Newegg.com
					

Buy ASUS PRIME B550M-A AC AM4 AMD B550 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				



If there are any concerns about it, let me know.


----------



## The King (Dec 21, 2022)

Count von Schwalbe said:


> Let's change the subject slightly before mods get involved.
> 
> I am planning a couple of builds for a business customer using the 5800X3D, as the software they are optimizing for will most likely benefit from cache and RAM speeds over core performance. Is there any cheap motherboard that will be rock solid, offer decent RAM speed, and (preferably, not required) no RGB?


Considering a mod was the one that started this debate I don't think we have anything to worry about. Nothing bad was said that will warrant any mods getting involved.


Count von Schwalbe said:


> Edit: Thinking of this one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would not get that board. Its one of the worst you can buy.

Best B550 budget board wait for it .... MSi B550-A-pro. 

I would look at the Hardware unboxed review they seem to do this very well in my opinion if you want cheaper B550 boards look at part 1 and 2.


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 21, 2022)

The King said:


> Still does not change the fact other boards basic series at cheaper prices outperforms it?
> 
> Overpriced junk then? My point exactly. Asus Prime boards are not cheaper here usually sell for more because of the Asus name tax on it.
> 
> Also goes to my point that ASUS screw up their boards as well same goes for Gigabyte and Asrock this includes Msi, who are not the only guilty party here and should not be singled out.


A valid point. But I think my point is just as valid as yours, being: don't expect a low-tier motherboard to perform well with a high-end CPU, regardless of the brand or price tag.



Count von Schwalbe said:


> Let's change the subject slightly before mods get involved.
> 
> I am planning a couple of builds for a business customer using the 5800X3D, as the software they are optimizing for will most likely benefit from cache and RAM speeds over core performance. Is there any cheap motherboard that will be rock solid, offer decent RAM speed, and (preferably, not required) no RGB?
> 
> ...


I've had that exact same board. It did the job, albeit with a 3100. I'm not sure about the 5800X3D, but because of it's low TDP and no overclockability, I guess it's fine? Just don't quote me on it.



The King said:


> Best B550 budget board wait for it .... MSi B550-A-pro.


That one is a huge *NO* from me! I had to RMA two of them before I got the Asus Prime B550M-A. They didn't boot, with the VGA error light on (I did try with multiple graphics cards).


----------



## freeagent (Dec 21, 2022)

It might be ok?

X3D really doesn't pull a ton of juice, but it can do the full 143w under the right conditions.

I am hesitant on low to midrange Asus


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 21, 2022)

TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> All those benches Prove are that the AUTO overclocking on MSI board's exceeds other AIB.
> 
> That doesn't make them better, the brand that's caused me the most hair pulling IS MSI, then gigabyte then asrock then Asus but yeah YMMV.
> 
> Regardless CPU benchmark figures do not make a motherboard Good.


I completely agree. The measures of a good motherboard for me are component compatibility, voltage stability, easy to use and highly configurable BIOS, a good layout and decent VRM with thermal headroom.



freeagent said:


> It might be ok?
> 
> X3D really doesn't pull a ton of juice, but it can do the full 143w under the right conditions.
> 
> I am hesitant on low to midrange Asus


Hm, I don't know... that tiny VRM heatsink might get a bit toasty. It's a decent entry-level board and I'd highly recommend it with a 3100. That's all I can say, unfortunately. 

I've also had an Asus TUF A520M that seems to have a similar VRM with a similar heatsink. I've put a R5 5500 in it for my brother, and it seems to be doing fine. It's still not a 5800X3D, though.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 21, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Hm, I don't know...


Yeah.. I don't like their midrange stuff, I just haven't had good luck with it. You can get a few years out of em if they are decent, but they haven't stood the test of time with me like their ROG stuff has.


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Dec 21, 2022)

The King said:


> I would not get that board. Its one of the worst you can buy.


Yup. Just realized they wanted 2.5Gb or more. So it will need to be ATX or have that onboard.


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 21, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Yeah.. I don't like their midrange stuff, I just haven't had good luck with it. You can get a few years out of em if they are decent, but they haven't stood the test of time with me like their ROG stuff has.


ROG is a bit over the edge for me these days, with lots of features I don't need. The TUF is usually fine.

Another topic:

Reporting after my first cold boot with the v1.52 BIOS update and EXPO enabled... it went okay!  But the RAM is still at 1.335 V, and the SoC voltage dropped even further to 1.19 V (it was 1.2 V on my last boot). As long as it's stable, I'm gonna leave it at that and call it a day.

There's another strange thing now... When I run Cinebench single-core, Windows Task Manager shows 5.35 GHz on the CPU. Before the update, it was 5.45 GHz. But the score I'm getting is higher! After a bit of investigation with HWinfo, I can see that the loaded threads actually run at 5.5 GHz while the rest clock down. This is probably where the higher score comes from. As for Task Manager, it's always been meh anyway.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 21, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> ROG is a bit over the edge for me these days, with lots of features I don't need


That is why I went with B550. Almost should have tried X570 though.. ahh well.

On to AM5 next  

(Maybe)


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 21, 2022)

freeagent said:


> That is why I went with B550. Almost should have tried X570 though.. ahh well.


What does X570 have that B550 doesn't? A chipset fan, maybe?  I never buy top-tier boards. Not that they're not nice, just unnecessary for my needs.



freeagent said:


> On to AM5 next
> 
> (Maybe)


Prepare yourself for a rough ride. It'll be fun... just rough.  Or wait until idiots like me have their luck with the early BIOSes.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 21, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> What does X570 have that B550 doesn't? A chipset fan, maybe?  I never buy top-tier boards. Not that they're not nice, just unnecessary for my needs.
> 
> 
> Prepare yourself for a rough ride. It'll be fun... just rough.  Or wait until idiots like me have their luck with the early BIOSes.


Yeah I will wait for all the beta testing to be done 

And then they will release another chipset


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Dec 21, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> A valid point. But I think my point is just as valid as yours, being: don't expect a low-tier motherboard to perform well with a high-end CPU, regardless of the brand or price tag.
> 
> 
> I've had that exact same board. It did the job, albeit with a 3100. I'm not sure about the 5800X3D, but because of it's low TDP and no overclockability, I guess it's fine? Just don't quote me on it.
> ...


I just built a Asus prime b550 non AC with a 5600G in it without the slightest issue, problem or regret and it's working fine.
Technically this board has been in my possession a year and had a 3800X in it before and a 3100X tried in it, never showed an issue.
In fact less issues then the crosshair 7 hero gave me but.
As ever YMMV.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 21, 2022)

If it can drive a 3800X it should be fine with X3D. Not sure about others, but the silicon quality on mine is pretty decent, better than my other Zen 3 parts.


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Dec 21, 2022)

Has anyone used:








						ASUS TUF GAMING B550M-PLUS WIFI II AM4 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Newegg.com
					

Buy ASUS TUF GAMING B550M-PLUS WIFI II AM4 AMD B550 SATA 6Gb/s Micro ATX AMD Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				




It seems to have the features I need, but the only review I found didn't say anything about RAM other than running XMP fine with whatever kit they had.


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 21, 2022)

Count von Schwalbe said:


> Has anyone used:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I did. It's an absolutely awesome board, although I did just that: run XMP fine with whatever kit I had.  I was using it with a 5950X without problem, by the way.


----------



## Nordic (Dec 21, 2022)

I installed custom water cooling on my 5950x. Immidiate 20c drop under load. It does not get hotter than 70c during specific loads.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 21, 2022)

Count von Schwalbe said:


> Has anyone used:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bought that board DOA. Looked like a 4 layer frisbee. But it had good sinks on it. The legs on the soldered components seemed excessively long, and probably was the cause of it being DOA. As it was open box, who ever mounted it first probably wired it up only to have it short somewhere. Also had to trim some of those legs to mount my Thermalright backplate for Le Grand Macho RT.


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Dec 21, 2022)

Ok, I think I have it dialed down. Biggest concern now is running 4x16 GB - will the IMC on the X3D tolerate 3600, or will it help to go 2x32?


----------



## Super Firm Tofu (Dec 21, 2022)

Count von Schwalbe said:


> Ok, I think I have it dialed down. Biggest concern now is running 4x16 GB - will the IMC on the X3D tolerate 3600, or will it help to go 2x32?



I ran 4 of these without issue on an x3d.  They are single rank DIMMs which probably helps out a bit.  With the 4 you achieve dual-rank, dual-channel.



			https://www.amazon.com/TEAMGROUP-T-Force-3600MHz-PC4-28800-288-Pin/dp/B07Z4NTYDM/r


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 21, 2022)

Count von Schwalbe said:


> Ok, I think I have it dialed down. Biggest concern now is running 4x16 GB - will the IMC on the X3D tolerate 3600, or will it help to go 2x32?



If the sticks are dual rank and 8Gb, you shouldn't expect 3600 on a 4-layer board like the Prime A or TUF mATX. iirc most 4-layers are QVLed for like 3200 at 4 ranks per channel, but your mileage may vary. Just don't go into it with expectations.

If the sticks are single rank 16Gb there should not be any issues up to 3800 at the very least. 2x32GB is a safer bet as they should only be dual rank 16Gb sticks.

I also did own a B550M TUF and it was a solid performing board. 8 x 50A will handle any AM4 CPU easy, mem topology not bad either.

I would not trust that Prime A with anything over 65W TDP. It's a board with discrete mosfets, the heatsink is pathetic, and Asus uses some of the worst discretes available (SiRA). 5800X3D may not behave like other 105W parts (only hits ~120W in most benchmarks that aren't ycruncher), but unless you have an MSI discrete board with 4C024/4C029s I would just stay away.

The full ATX Prime is a different and stouter board, not sure if it's even 4-layer (the ATX X570 Pro was a 6 surprisingly).


----------



## Mussels (Dec 22, 2022)

TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> All those benches Prove are that the AUTO overclocking on MSI board's exceeds other AIB.


By throwing more wattages and higher voltages at them than everyone else



Count von Schwalbe said:


> Has anyone used:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the II series overall are pretty good steps up from the originals

I've got a low opinion of TUF boards, but being a B550 II, that's AFTER their screwups when they should be all fixed
Cant have a shitty 5000RPM chipset fan with no fan control, if its fanless B550...


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 22, 2022)

Mussels said:


> By throwing more wattages and higher voltages at them than everyone else


Speaking of voltages, what are the AMD default values on a 7700X? I just want to check if my board is trying to trick me in some way.


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 22, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Speaking of voltages, what are the AMD default values on a 7700X? I just want to check if my board is trying to trick me in some way.



Which voltage rail are we talking about?' Im 99% sure those don't exist and have never existed on Vcore. VSOC probably depends on board and XMP/EXPO.

AMD only prescribes some absolute limits (e.g. 1.5V ST), Vcore in all other circumstances varies wildly by workload, board and (maybe) CPU sample SP

The 1.5V limit haven't changed for Raphael, I think.


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 22, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Which voltage rail are we talking about?' Im 99% sure those don't exist and have never existed on Vcore. VSOC probably depends on board and XMP/EXPO.
> 
> AMD only prescribes some absolute limits (e.g. 1.5V ST), Vcore in all other circumstances varies wildly by workload, board and (maybe) CPU sample SP
> 
> The 1.5V limit haven't changed for Raphael, I think.


So basically, board makers can do whatever they want. That's what I was afraid of.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 22, 2022)

Using boolean google search for  "B550M-PLUS WIFI II" reddit VRM






Too old to have the V2, but the asus prime is funny since they put 300C since it just overheats
(Notice how MSI did indeed do well in B550, vs the earlier x570 attempts. The only issue here is if they're honest values, which we cant know)





overclock 3D was pretty happy with the V1's VRM temps, so if they haven't altered the cooling at all that's good
(Notice the MSI x570 running stock is as hot as most of the boards OC'd)

This shows the whole mess of confusion with the asus strix boards hotter than a TUF, and my strix-E is up in the charts since asus used super thin 0.5mm thermal pads that just dried into dust in under 6 months






AusWolf said:


> So basically, board makers can do whatever they want. That's what I was afraid of.


Yep

And they can use sensors that are inaccurate or deliberately read high/low to do what they want
Wanna win performance reviews? make the sensors report lower voltages/wattages so PBO pushes harder


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 22, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> So basically, board makers can do whatever they want. That's what I was afraid of.



That's always been true though. Instead of static OCing like on Intel, we put faith in Precision Boost and board makers.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 22, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> That's always been true though. Instead of static OCing like on Intel, we put faith in Precision Boost and board makers.


In HWinfos' accuracy meter we trust

(Mine over-reports due to being offset undervolted)


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 22, 2022)

Mussels said:


> In HWinfos' accuracy meter we trust
> 
> (Mine over-reports due to being offset undervolted)
> View attachment 275576



It's more than that though. There's a lot of boost irregularities and bad performance that can't be fixed by adjusting telemetry to fix power deviation. It's just certain boards having certain quirks, and it's incredibly frustrating to have no control over those things.

I had a B550I Gaming Edge Max ITX for a few days and that was the case on that board. The B550M-ITX/ac, B550I Aorus AX, and B550 Strix-I all report about the same but boost fine.


----------



## Kissamies (Dec 22, 2022)

Went back to the Crosshair VII Hero, seems like turning fTPM off AND increasing SoC & IF voltages did some magic for the audio crackling (aka DPC latency). Also I went back to Win10 and used some tips from here. https://thegeekpage.com/high-dpc-latency-on-windows-10/


----------



## paez (Dec 22, 2022)

for 2 years i am experiencing problem with 5900x.

i was using 3700x and msi b450 tomahawk combo, then i upgraded to 5900x. i updated bios for 5000 series and tried new cpu but i had black screen problems when gaming or benchmarking. black screen means, i lost monitor signal and monitor goes to sleep, no case button works so i had to reboot by shutting down psu and wait for 10 seconds, than reboot again etc.

that time cpu and bios were new so many people had lots of problem and there were so many different ideas for these black screens. i tried most of them and finally found a solution. raising nb/soc voltage in offset mode by 0.05 solved all of my problem. i never saw black screen again, till gpu upgrade.

last month i changed my gpu (6950xt from 6800xt), that was not a radical upgrade so i didnt changed anything on system, just replace gpu and boot again. when i trying to benchmark gpu, just black screen came again. i thought maybe my bios is out of date and i should upgrade it.  so i upgraded bios, tried again but nothing changed. then i changed gpu and tried old stable one, but black screen problem was there again. i tried old nb/soc voltage method but it doesnt help either. so after new bios my system wasnt stable even with old hardware.

so i tried to understand what's going on and read a lot of stuff about this common black screen issue. tried lots of things and only turning of pbo and using cpu at 3700 mhz solved problem. then i tried eco pbo modes and eco mode 45 and 65 w modes were stable. even eco mode 95w causing black screen.

now i changed my gpu again to 7900xtx and using it with 5900x and 65w eco mode. with these settings i have no black screen issue but i want to solve this problem without reducing my system power.

to solve this firstly i should understand what's the core of this problem. i guess it's a bios and voltage issue when i am using eco mode all my other hardware seem stabil even with extreme overclock. but when i extremely downclock ram and gpu, cpu isnt stable if turn off eco mode. my psu is platinum 1200 watt. i have nzxt kraken for water cooling and cpu temps rarely exceed 50 degree so this is not about temps or power.

i should find a new voltage setting for this specific system or i should change mobo. but i dont want to change just my mobo if i upgrade i should change it all, (7000 series cpu, ddr 5 etc) so just uprading mobo is useless for 5900x cpu.

i havent read all the pages of this 200 paged topic cause i cant but maybe a soul in this zen garden had same or similar problem and solution. or i will continue to use this system in eco mode for ever.


----------



## Kissamies (Dec 22, 2022)

paez said:


> for 2 years i am experiencing problem with 5900x.
> 
> i was using 3700x and msi b450 tomahawk combo, then i upgraded to 5900x. i updated bios for 5000 series and tried new cpu but i had black screen problems when gaming or benchmarking. black screen means, i lost monitor signal and monitor goes to sleep, no case button works so i had to reboot by shutting down psu and wait for 10 seconds, than reboot again etc.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure that it's a motherboard issue if lowering the TDP solves it. Is your RAM overclocked? 6800 XT -> 6950 XT shouldn't be that problematical upgrade as they use the same chip, and if you have a 1.2kW PSU, I doubt that causes any problems.

Also, welcome to TPU.


----------



## AsRock (Dec 22, 2022)

Mussels said:


> By throwing more wattages and higher voltages at them than everyone else
> 
> 
> the II series overall are pretty good steps up from the originals
> ...



Pretty sad to here that they had no fan control, even my Cheap ass ASRock AM4 board had that.  How ever maybe some thing like Fan Control could give that option.


----------



## The King (Dec 22, 2022)

paez said:


> for 2 years i am experiencing problem with 5900x.
> 
> i was using 3700x and msi b450 tomahawk combo, then i upgraded to 5900x. i updated bios for 5000 series and tried new cpu but i had black screen problems when gaming or benchmarking. black screen means, i lost monitor signal and monitor goes to sleep, no case button works so i had to reboot by shutting down psu and wait for 10 seconds, than reboot again etc.
> 
> ...


Filling out your System specs section in your profile will be a good including your PSU specs. 

Considering the B450 tomahawk has one of the most powerful VRM designs for any B450 series board and can easily handle a 5950X I will be surprised if the motherboard can't handle a 5900X.

Also please post Zentimings with your current RAM OC and offset settings that you are using for the VSOC


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 22, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> That's always been true though. Instead of static OCing like on Intel, we put faith in Precision Boost and board makers.


I haven't done any CPU OC, static or otherwise, in the last 10 or so years, maybe more. Boost takes care of everything so I don't have to. 



Mussels said:


> In HWinfos' accuracy meter we trust
> 
> (Mine over-reports due to being offset undervolted)
> View attachment 275576


I remember having that on AM4, but it doesn't show on my current system. Either AM5 doesn't have it, or my board somehow manages to hide it.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 22, 2022)

Testing my 5900X in a semi-passive setup today 









Edit:

It seems ok..





Well..

I got it to do the 4500MHz under WCG that I wanted, but she wants to run hot. 4400MHz is no sweat though. 4600 is what it normally runs at.


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 23, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Testing my 5900X in a semi-passive setup today
> 
> View attachment 275661
> View attachment 275662
> ...


That 1-200 MHz difference is nothing. Very impressive from a semi-passive setup!


----------



## Mussels (Dec 23, 2022)

Kissamies said:


> Went back to the Crosshair VII Hero, seems like turning fTPM off AND increasing SoC & IF voltages did some magic for the audio crackling (aka DPC latency). Also I went back to Win10 and used some tips from here. https://thegeekpage.com/high-dpc-latency-on-windows-10/


the SoC resets when it has inadequate voltage and devices drop and reconnect, and have latency delays when this happens

fTPM should only be an issue on older agesas


----------



## Kissamies (Dec 23, 2022)

Mussels said:


> the SoC resets when it has inadequate voltage and devices drop and reconnect, and have latency delays when this happens
> 
> fTPM should only be an issue on older agesas


Yet it seems to work as there's absolutely zero problems with audio anymore.  and yeah I have the most recent bios.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 23, 2022)

AsRock said:


> Pretty sad to here that they had no fan control, even my Cheap ass ASRock AM4 board had that.  How ever maybe some thing like Fan Control could give that option.


To be clear the CHIPSET fan had no fan control
Hence those early rumours and reputation about x570's shitty screamer chipset fans



paez said:


> for 2 years i am experiencing problem with 5900x.
> 
> i was using 3700x and msi b450 tomahawk combo, then i upgraded to 5900x. i updated bios for 5000 series and tried new cpu but i had black screen problems when gaming or benchmarking. black screen means, i lost monitor signal and monitor goes to sleep, no case button works so i had to reboot by shutting down psu and wait for 10 seconds, than reboot again etc.
> 
> ...


those low load black screen crashes are 100% SoC voltage related, it's a common problem with incorrect RAM setups as everyone seems to think ryzen can just slap in any ram on XMP and have it run, when it's overclocking to go past 3200MT/s and certain combinations aren't even rated that fast

Fill out your system specs, look at the detail other users here have posted for what to include

If you post a zentimings screenshot or CPU-Z screenshots of XMP and RAM tabs, we'll find the issues


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 23, 2022)

Mussels said:


> To be clear the CHIPSET fan had no fan control
> Hence those early rumours and reputation about x570's shitty screamer chipset fans



Asus is artificially stingy about the fan control, and like they do for certain other settings they will intentionally hide controls on boards that aren't real-ROG (Crosshair). 

Last I checked my B550 Strix-I had no fan control (it is B550 but has a VRM fan under here).
The X570 Strix-I has no control over its two fans, unless modded BIOS. Has caused a lot of people frustration.
My Impact does have control over its two fans, but the minimum speed limits have varied with different BIOSes. 

I have my Impact fans running at about 1300rpm now and temps are still good, but out of the box these tiny fans Asus sets to run somewhere north of 4000rpm. 

Although, I can't say I've ever really heard the fans on the Impact even at thousands of rpm. Maybe I just have too many fans on my setup and headphones on my head


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 23, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Sure, the brand wasn't the best at first launch


I disagree.  Before it morphed from "Sabertooth" into TUF it was actually much better.  The X58 Sabertooth, the grandaddy of the whole idea, was actually a badass board.


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 23, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Asus is artificially stingy about the fan control, and like they do for certain other settings they will intentionally hide controls on boards that aren't real-ROG (Crosshair).
> 
> Last I checked my B550 Strix-I had no fan control (it is B550 but has a VRM fan under here).
> The X570 Strix-I has no control over its two fans, unless modded BIOS. Has caused a lot of people frustration.
> ...


I've never seen that happen. All Asus boards that I've tried (I've tried quite a few lately), the fan control options were always "Silent", "Normal", "Turbo" and "Manual" (which let you adjust the curve yourself).



AusWolf said:


> Reporting after my first cold boot with the v1.52 BIOS update and EXPO enabled... it went okay!  But the RAM is still at 1.335 V, and the SoC voltage dropped even further to 1.19 V (it was 1.2 V on my last boot). As long as it's stable, I'm gonna leave it at that and call it a day.
> 
> There's another strange thing now... When I run Cinebench single-core, Windows Task Manager shows 5.35 GHz on the CPU. Before the update, it was 5.45 GHz. But the score I'm getting is higher! After a bit of investigation with HWinfo, I can see that the loaded threads actually run at 5.5 GHz while the rest clock down. This is probably where the higher score comes from. As for Task Manager, it's always been meh anyway.


One more thing with the new BIOS:

I manually set FCLK to 1:1 with RAM, so now it's running at 3000 MHz, rock solid with 1.2 V SoC. When I did this with the original BIOS, it wouldn't even boot even with 1.36 V.

I was just about to get rid of this motherboard somehow, and order the Asus TUF B650M Wifi instead, but this new BIOS (or the new AGESA) made a completely new board out of it.


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 23, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> I've never seen that happen. All Asus boards that I've tried (I've tried quite a few lately), the fan control options were always "Silent", "Normal", "Turbo" and "Manual" (which let you adjust the curve yourself).
> 
> 
> One more thing with the new BIOS:
> ...



We're talking about VRM and chipset fan control, not the fan headers.

Good to hear that 3000 UCLK is working now.


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 23, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> We're talking about VRM and chipset fan control, not the fan headers.
> 
> Good to hear that 3000 UCLK is working now.


Ah, I see! I've never had a motherboard with a chipset fan. 

Thanks.  It's good to see that even MSi is capable of pulling their act together with BIOS updates (unless it was AMD with AGESA 1.0.0.4).


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 23, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Ah, I see! I've never had a motherboard with a chipset fan.
> 
> Thanks.  It's good to see that even MSi is capable of pulling their act together with BIOS updates (unless it was AMD with AGESA 1.0.0.4).



What FCLK are you running now at 6000?


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 23, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> What FCLK are you running now at 6000?


2000 MHz FCLK and 3000 UCLK.


----------



## GerKNG (Dec 23, 2022)

quick question about Zen 4.
are 1.25V SoC normal at 6000 CL30 (3000 UCLK). auto voltage.


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 23, 2022)

GerKNG said:


> quick question about Zen 4.
> are 1.25V SoC normal at 6000 CL30 (3000 UCLK). auto voltage.


My board defaulted to 1.36 V with 6000 RAM. Then I manually set it to 1.1 V, then back to Auto which ended up being 1.2 V for some reason.

To your question: Your CPU might be OK with even lower V SoC, but 1.25 V isn't bad (I think).


----------



## GerKNG (Dec 23, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> My board defaulted to 1.36 V with 6000 RAM. Then I manually set it to 1.1 V, then back to Auto which ended up being 1.2 V for some reason.
> 
> To your question: Your CPU might be OK with even lower V SoC, but 1.25 V isn't bad (I think).


1.36V? wow... Zen 3 would be dead in a couple hours with that voltage.
i guess it's fine then (1.2V is not stable...WHEA Errors)


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 23, 2022)

GerKNG said:


> 1.36V? wow... Zen 3 would be dead in a couple hours with that voltage.
> i guess it's fine then (1.2V is not stable...WHEA Errors)


Try updating your BIOS. Mine wouldn't even boot with 3000 UCLK with the original BIOS. Now, it's rock solid.

Edit: I'm not sure if 1.36 V is fine. It's an MSi Pro series board, after all.


----------



## GerKNG (Dec 23, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Try updating your BIOS. Mine wouldn't even boot with 3000 UCLK with the original BIOS. Now, it's rock solid.


i'm already on the latest bios. and it works just fine. (ran memtest and y cruncher so far)
stability seems to be on the edge at around 1.22-1.23v.


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 23, 2022)

GerKNG said:


> i'm already on the latest bios. and it works just fine. (ran memtest and y cruncher so far)
> stability seems to be on the edge at around 1.22-1.23v.


That's weird. I imagined higher end CPUs to do better with voltage. I guess it's got to be 1.25 V, then.


----------



## GerKNG (Dec 23, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> That's weird. I imagined higher end CPUs to do better with voltage. I guess it's got to be 1.25 V, then.


i am pretty sure that neither intel nor amd bin their IMCs. 
but i am very happy with the result. it's even with 1T Command Rate and runs pretty well on air (around 5.2 Ghz in R23 38900 Points)


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 23, 2022)

GerKNG said:


> i am pretty sure that neither intel nor amd bin their IMCs.
> but i am very happy with the result. it's even with 1T Command Rate and runs pretty well on air (around 5.2 Ghz in R23 38900 Points)


That's really good. 
My 7700X does 5.1 GHz with a 280 AIO, 19200 points. Although, I seem to hit some kind of power limit with this one, as the core temp stops rising at around 93 °C.


----------



## Super Firm Tofu (Dec 23, 2022)

GerKNG said:


> i am pretty sure that neither intel nor amd bin their IMCs.
> but i am very happy with the result. it's even with 1T Command Rate and runs pretty well on air (around 5.2 Ghz in R23 38900 Points)



Spending some time with CO is worth it, although with a 7950x that's going to take some effort.  My 7700x runs stable with 1.02v SoC  @ 6000 CL30 although, like @AusWolf, mine defaulted to 1.36v



AusWolf said:


> That's really good.
> My 7700X does 5.1 GHz with a 280 AIO, 19200 points. Although, I seem to hit some kind of power limit with this one, as the core temp stops rising at around 93 °C.



Spend some time with CO - I'm getting 20605 at a max 84℃ on a NH-D15 at -25 CO all core.


----------



## GerKNG (Dec 23, 2022)

Super Firm Tofu said:


> Spending some time with CO is worth it, although with a 7950x that's going to take some effort


i am currently at -25 all core (runs core cycler per core P95 AVX2 small FFT and y cruncher)


----------



## Super Firm Tofu (Dec 23, 2022)

GerKNG said:


> i am currently at -25 all core (runs core cycler per core P95 AVX2 small FFT and y cruncher)



That's where I ended up, and with core cycler overnight and about 8 hours of y cruncher as well.  I've been rock stable stable since launch at these settings.  Congrats on the new build!


----------



## GerKNG (Dec 23, 2022)

Super Firm Tofu said:


> That's where I ended up, and with core cycler overnight and about 8 hours of y cruncher as well.  I've been rock stable stable since launch at these settings.  Congrats on the new build!


thanks! 
just ran R23 with BM.


----------



## kapone32 (Dec 23, 2022)

R-T-B said:


> I disagree.  Before it morphed from "Sabertooth" into TUF it was actually much better.  The X58 Sabertooth, the grandaddy of the whole idea, was actually a badass board.


By far my favourite board (Outside of X399)  has to be the 990FX Sabretooth. To me that was the ultimate AM3 board.


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 24, 2022)

kapone32 said:


> By far my favourite board (Outside of X399)  has to be the 990FX Sabretooth. To me that was the ultimate AM3 board.


X99 sabertooth was pretty good too.  Actually I think darn near every "sabertooth" tuf board was.


----------



## kapone32 (Dec 24, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> That's really good.
> My 7700X does 5.1 GHz with a 280 AIO, 19200 points. Although, I seem to hit some kind of power limit with this one, as the core temp stops rising at around 93 °C.


Though I doubt the X3D chips will be able to achieve the clock speeds of their AM5 brothers. Please don't judge me when I wax on about the Gaming performance about my X3D chip. For me the current hardware that is available to consumers like over 5 GHZ CPUs, 24GB GPUs, 3600MHZ DDR4 14 or 15 speeds, 7 GB/s boot drives that install Windows in under 10 minutes (Just try a HDD and you will get it) are truly spectacular. What AMD does not understand is people like me were totally prepared to pay $999 for TRX40 chips and would have made users like me very happy. I maxed out my PC under X399 and was compelled by the real feeling that modern hardware brings. I often comment on purchases from other users on hardware that I own to be prepared for the smile that compelling hardware brings. Maybe that defines us as Enthusiasts. As I was just as surprised at the OC available on the 6500XT (especially after seeing how small the die is) as how smooth the experience is with the 6800XT. Now I have a 5800X3D and some 3600 15 RAM that make me smile every time I look at my PC. Regardless of how you feel about ARGB it is dramatic. Especially after I got the 7000D Airflow


----------



## Mussels (Dec 24, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> I've never seen that happen


Again, the TUF boards did this

I've also got one of those modded BIOSes, unlocking better fan control options
Asus locked everyone out, and in weird ways - sometimes the lower end boards have it enabled but the higher end boards don't


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 24, 2022)

Super Firm Tofu said:


> Spending some time with CO is worth it, although with a 7950x that's going to take some effort.  My 7700x runs stable with 1.02v SoC  @ 6000 CL30 although, like @AusWolf, mine defaulted to 1.36v
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now, that's awesome! 

Maybe I'll try someday. I mostly game, read TPU and watch Youtube on my PC, none of which tasks heat the CPU above 70 °C, so for now, I'm happy.



kapone32 said:


> Though I doubt the X3D chips will be able to achieve the clock speeds of their AM5 brothers. Please don't judge me when I wax on about the Gaming performance about my X3D chip. For me the current hardware that is available to consumers like over 5 GHZ CPUs, 24GB GPUs, 3600MHZ DDR4 14 or 15 speeds, 7 GB/s boot drives that install Windows in under 10 minutes (Just try a HDD and you will get it) are truly spectacular. What AMD does not understand is people like me were totally prepared to pay $999 for TRX40 chips and would have made users like me very happy. I maxed out my PC under X399 and was compelled by the real feeling that modern hardware brings. I often comment on purchases from other users on hardware that I own to be prepared for the smile that compelling hardware brings. Maybe that defines us as Enthusiasts. As I was just as surprised at the OC available on the 6500XT (especially after seeing how small the die is) as how smooth the experience is with the 6800XT. Now I have a 5800X3D and some 3600 15 RAM that make me smile every time I look at my PC. Regardless of how you feel about ARGB it is dramatic. Especially after I got the 7000D Airflow


Oh yes, OC on the 6500 XT is pure joy. Max out all sliders and done - 2950 MHz in every game all day and night.  The best part is that the Asus TUF version that I have (I still haven't sold it) doesn't even get hot.

For me, being an enthusiast means loving to tinker. I don't care if it's my Zen 4 main rig, or any of my HTPCs, or any other PC that friends or colleagues asked me to put together or service. I love all PCs equally. The greatest pleasure for me is not just seeing a high-performance machine do its thing, but also making a cheaper, lower-end system go out of its way to do something I wasn't expecting it to do. About a month ago, I tried playing Stray on my second HTPC that has an ultra low power quad-core Core i7 and a GT 1030 in it (in my signature). I was so happy when it actually ran at playable framerate at 1080p low!


----------



## kapone32 (Dec 24, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Oh yes, OC on the 6500 XT is pure joy. Max out all sliders and done - 2950 MHz in every game all day and night.  The best part is that the Asus TUF version that I have (I still haven't sold it) doesn't even get hot.
> 
> For me, being an enthusiast means loving to tinker. I don't care if it's my Zen 4 main rig, or any of my HTPCs, or any other PC that friends or colleagues asked me to put together or service. I love all PCs equally. The greatest pleasure for me is not just seeing a high-performance machine do its thing, but also making a cheaper, lower-end system go out of its way to do something I wasn't expecting it to do. About a month ago, I tried playing Stray on my second HTPC that has an ultra low power quad-core Core i7 and a GT 1030 in it (in my signature). I was so happy when it actually ran at playable framerate at 1080p low!


Haha My Gigabyte beats yours I get 2983 MHZ. What about Memory I can get a stable 2100 MHZ. I have the Gaming OC (3 Fan version) and that shroud is overkill for a GPU that small.  I know exactly what you mean about tinkering. That is what has me excited about the 7900XTX 3 pin version.


-


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 25, 2022)

kapone32 said:


> Haha My Gigabyte beats yours I get 2983 MHZ. What about Memory I can get a stable 2100 MHZ. I have the Gaming OC (3 Fan version) and that shroud is overkill for a GPU that small.  I know exactly what you mean about tinkering. That is what has me excited about the 7900XTX 3 pin version.
> 
> 
> -


How come 2100? The 6500 XT's VRAM is at 2250 by default. OC-ing mine is the same as the GPU: push sliders to the max and call it a day (that's 2400 MHz on mine). 

As for GPU clock, the slider maxes out at 2975 on mine, which ends up being 2950-ish in practice.


----------



## kapone32 (Dec 25, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> How come 2100? The 6500 XT's VRAM is at 2250 by default. OC-ing mine is the same as the GPU: push sliders to the max and call it a day (that's 2400 MHz on mine).
> 
> As for GPU clock, the slider maxes out at 2975 on mine, which ends up being 2950-ish in practice.


Sorry I was using my 6800XT memory and you are right the Memory does OC easily to 2400


----------



## Mussels (Dec 26, 2022)

Had a random reboot while gaming

Sad

I may need that SoC voltage higher after all





It's 39C and raining so I'll just assume i've been cursed

Backs up a theory i had that WHEA errors are heat related - lighter gaming was fine earlier today and heavier games were fine in colder weather

The irony is that more voltage makes it more stable, but also adds to the heat. Makes me wanna set a 75c cTDP limit in the BIOS to prevent random spikes hurting stability


----------



## The King (Dec 26, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Had a random reboot while gaming
> 
> Sad
> 
> ...


Are these WHEA 18s or WHEA 19s ?
WHEA 18s could be unstable -CO, many are running 5800X3D at -30 all cores with undervolting. Which can be the cause of WHEA 18s and random reboots


----------



## Mussels (Dec 26, 2022)

The King said:


> Are these WHEA 18s or WHEA 19s ?
> WHEA 18s could be unstable -CO, many are running 5800X3D at -30 all cores with undervolting. Which can be the cause of WHEA 18s and random reboots


x3D behaves totally different with CO

mine ran -30 from day one with zero issues, even with a manual voltage offset the effective clocks and performance drop, but it never comes up unstable

This is the result of my lowered SoC voltage testing, i'd gone from 1.15v to 1.05v 'kinda stable' but slowly needing the higher voltage as the weather warms up - custom loop means the GPU pre-heats the loop and 40c ambients dont help at all


----------



## The King (Dec 26, 2022)

Mussels said:


> x3D behaves totally different with CO
> 
> mine ran -30 from day one with zero issues, even with a manual voltage offset the effective clocks and performance drop, but it never comes up unstable
> 
> This is the result of my lowered SoC voltage testing, i'd gone from 1.15v to 1.05v 'kinda stable' but slowly needing the higher voltage as the weather warms up - custom loop means the GPU pre-heats the loop and 40c ambients dont help at all


Low VSOC can results in WHEA 19s but I have not seen them cause WHEA 18s.

Usually unstable CPU V-core leads to WHEA 18s or GPU issues.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 26, 2022)

More errors in the 40,000 feckin events history

The description for Event ID 0 from source nvlddmkm cannot be found

This might be SoC dropping the GPU, or it might be the GPU itself (again, higher ambients)


----------



## The King (Dec 26, 2022)

Yep that is another thing that can cause WHEA errors unstable GPU.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 26, 2022)

Reboots just don't match anything else, if i lower the GPU voltage and force a crash the game crashes and driver resets - no system restarts


Ah here we go, this time with HWinfo up - my chipset temps have gone whoosh, seeing 68C at peak
It's normally around 60C and 3,000 RPM but it's at 2500RPM and almost 70C now

New BIOS must have set it differently to what i'm used to - next rebuild i have copper shims to replace it's thermal pad

Yeah shit it's the chipset again, even 2 minutes after quitting a game the damn things stuck at 67.6c - unlike everything else it's not dropping
Fan spinning and has free air, so it must be the thermal pad again

Hour with side panel off and idle is at 63C
Sooooo yeah, chipset thermal pad has given up again



ITS MUSSELS TIME, LETS GO OVERBOARD AND DO WEIRD THINGS TO THIS POOR COMPUTER

Sigh i'll have to drain the loop for this too, might as weell check that out on the way


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 26, 2022)

Mussels said:


> x3D behaves totally different with CO
> 
> mine ran -30 from day one with zero issues, even with a manual voltage offset the effective clocks and performance drop, but it never comes up unstable
> 
> This is the result of my lowered SoC voltage testing, i'd gone from 1.15v to 1.05v 'kinda stable' but slowly needing the higher voltage as the weather warms up - custom loop means the GPU pre-heats the loop and 40c ambients dont help at all


I don't know if the Zen 3 SoC behaves in any similar way to Zen 4, but 1.05 V sounds kind of low to me.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 26, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> I don't know if the Zen 3 SoC behaves in any similar way to Zen 4, but 1.05 V sounds kind of low to me.


1.05v is low, like stock volts for 1600 1:1. I normally run the SOC on all of my Zen 3 parts at 1.15. So if your soc is similar to zen 3 give it the beans


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Dec 26, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Yeah shit it's the chipset again, even 2 minutes after quitting a game the damn things stuck at 67.6c - unlike everything else it's not dropping
> Fan spinning and has free air, so it must be the thermal pad again
> 
> Hour with side panel off and idle is at 63C
> ...











						Alphacool HF 14 Smart Motion universal copper edition
					

The new SmartMotion universal water block is a true all-rounder. It is suitable for all common motherboard – northbridge and southbridge - chips as well as NVIDIA® and ATI® GPU chips*. Additionally, the water block can also be used on...




					www.au.aquatuning.com


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 26, 2022)

freeagent said:


> 1.05v is low, like stock volts for 1600 1:1. I normally run the SOC on all of my Zen 3 parts at 1.15. So if your soc is similar to zen 3 give it the beans


It's currently at 1.2 with UCLK at 3000 (1:1 to RAM), which I'm happy with. I don't want to touch it in case my board decides to do something stupid again.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 26, 2022)

I


AusWolf said:


> It's currently at 1.2 with UCLK at 3000 (1:1 to RAM), which I'm happy with. I don't want to touch it in case my board decides to do something stupid again.


 I know nothing of AM5 so I wouldn’t listen to me if I were you


----------



## Mussels (Dec 27, 2022)

Okay so results first
no more 3,000 RPM for 65C




replacement pads lasted as long as the OG pads




The method?
heh.

Time for friendo


Nails 'n Hair did




Oh no! Its the po-po!





Quick, put on sunscreen!
Oh no! the coppers also got sunscreen! And he's making baby chipsets with me!





Look asus you did a shit design, and its ugly too




Good thing i'm not running that temp sensitive B-die crap

40c ambients would make it literally unusable





*******************************************************
I had a bunch of things go wrong

1. Something had reset my corsair commander pro, so fan speeds were all outta whack
Pump from 100% down to 30%, fans from 60% to 20%, etc.

2. Chipset cooler definitely was running hotter than it should be

3. Afterburner loaded a really old profile that was unstable, instead of the same one it's been loading happily for weeks/months


----------



## Mussels (Dec 28, 2022)

And today, the chipset didnt even break 60c while gaming

Almost like having the fans/pump at proper speeds and slapping a piece of copper instead of a thermal pad fixed things


----------



## Blaeza (Dec 28, 2022)

So, anyone fancy walking me through how to OC my 5700X?  I don't want to go ridiculous, just a nice stable overclock.  I used the auto oc in Adrenaline and it was a bit much, resulting in Whea error 18.  So I have left it stock but now I'm getting itchy, lol.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 28, 2022)

Increase limits and boost override until its stable at the temps and speeds you can deal with


----------



## Blaeza (Dec 28, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Increase limits and boost override until its stable at the temps and speeds you can deal with


Thank you for your highly in-depth overclocking guide!  Do I oc through the bios or Master?


----------



## freeagent (Dec 28, 2022)

You can start with the stock limits and see what you have to work with and go from there. My 5900X is a bit of a dud but I run it with an unstable for corecycler OC.

I use bios, no software..


----------



## Blaeza (Dec 28, 2022)

freeagent said:


> You can start with the stock limits and see what you have to work with and go from there. My 5900X is a bit of a dud but I run it with an unstable for corecycler OC.
> 
> I use bios, no software..


Okey dokey.  I'll be back in 10 minutes worried sick about something.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 28, 2022)

Blaeza said:


> Okey dokey.  I'll be back in 10 minutes worried sick about something.


I was the same way, no need to worry.

For me, what I did was find the absolute max PPT my CPUs could put out, steadily feeding it TDC and EDC. Once I found the max I set and all core curve at -30 +200 and kinda worked my way down from there. My 5900X is a total fecking dud, but I was able to get my 5600X stable in CC at +150. I run it at +200 anyways 

Its not the way everyone else does it though..


----------



## Blaeza (Dec 28, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I was the same way, no need to worry.
> 
> For me, what I did was find the absolute max PPT my CPUs could put out, steadily feeding it TDC and EDC. Once I found the max I set and all core curve at -30 +200 and kinda worked my way down from there. My 5900X is a total fecking dud, but I was able to get my 5600X stable in CC at +150. I run it at +200 anyways
> 
> Its not the way everyone else does it though..


I adjusted the max boost override by +150 and got 3 BSOD's!  Changed it to +100 and turned PBO off and just got 42,190 on Fire Strike.  I don't understand all the PPT, TDC and EDC.  Also doesn't help that I'm a visual learner, but just very slow.


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 28, 2022)

Blaeza said:


> I adjusted the max boost override by +150 and got 3 BSOD's!  Changed it to +100 and turned PBO off and just got 42,190 on Fire Strike.  I don't understand all the PPT, TDC and EDC.  Also doesn't help that I'm a visual learner, but just very slow.


PPT = that's the max. power target, kind of like Intel's PL1 and PL2 combined in one value.
TDC = Thermal Design Current.
EDC = Electric Design current.
These are current limits (as in Amperes). I don't know what the difference is between the two.

I'm also a visual (and tactile) learner myself, that's why I don't bother overclocking these modern chips.  The benefits are very small, while the risk of me fecking up something in the process is high.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 29, 2022)

Blaeza said:


> So, anyone fancy walking me through how to OC my 5700X?  I don't want to go ridiculous, just a nice stable overclock.  I used the auto oc in Adrenaline and it was a bit much, resulting in Whea error 18.  So I have left it stock but now I'm getting itchy, lol.


try an all core overclock with that one

See if 4.6GHz all core works at 1.2v
If errors, slowly raise core voltage
If no errors, slowly lower the voltage

If it's too hot, lower the multiplier 0.25 at a time until you can find a clock speed and voltage your cooling can handle 

Once you have that, you can worry about benchmark scores vs stock 

30 minute cinebench runs are my minimum standard for voltage tests
The 5700x has a lower TDP than the other chips so PBO overclocking doesn't get you as far


----------



## Theswweet (Dec 29, 2022)

What's the info I'd need to know to get to PBO tweaking my 7700x? Figure I should try and get the most I can out of this, since I've got the cooling for it.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 29, 2022)

Theswweet said:


> What's the info I'd need to know to get to PBO tweaking my 7700x? Figure I should try and get the most I can out of this, since I've got the cooling for it.


Use hwinfo to record max stats

disable PBO, run cinebench record values and score
Set the values to the max, run cinebench and record those max values


Then start lowering them until you find an in-between where higher wattage doesnt result in higher temps
On zen3, it seems to be around the 100W-110W mark on the 8 core CPU's of the 140W max - so maybe take 30% off the max PBO values and see how that goes


----------



## Blaeza (Dec 29, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> PPT = that's the max. power target, kind of like Intel's PL1 and PL2 combined in one value.
> TDC = Thermal Design Current.
> EDC = Electric Design current.
> These are current limits (as in Amperes). I don't know what the difference is between the two.
> ...


Thanks for the explanations!  Appreciate that.  Well with the little adjustment I made to the boost, I've beaten my previous best score in Time Spy by 800 points.  I just have to test it now in CoD to see if it crashes horribly.

Edit... 

Cod crashed horribly...  So what I did next was a stroke of GENIUS...  I went on Ryzen Master and auto-overclocked and got it to adjust the values for me as I'm so unfamiliar with it all.  And it worked!  Just when I restart it now from Ryzen Master I seem to get a BSOD once and then it works...  Ah well...


----------



## Mussels (Dec 30, 2022)

I'd be resettings things to default and getting it stable instead of relying on BSOD's and crashes as part of your routine since you have no idea if the ryzen master or BIOS settings are even applied at that point


----------



## Mussels (Jan 1, 2023)

37C outside
27c inside

bleh


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 2, 2023)

Yo 









						AMD Ryzen 5 3600 @ 4049.06 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

[uh0cth] Validated Dump by Meow (2023-01-02 05:14:53) - MB: Asus ROG CROSSHAIR VII HERO - RAM: 32768 MB




					valid.x86.fr


----------



## mechtech (Jan 2, 2023)

I have a question.  I just upgraded to a 5700x, and power mode is balanced, however CPUZ shows 3600Mhz ish.  No OC or anything.  Shouldn't CnQ or whatever idle the cpu at 800-1200 mhz?

Can't find it in bios?

Any thoughts suggestions?


----------



## 3x0 (Jan 2, 2023)

@mechtech That's normal looking from CPUz. HWInfo can show effective clock which should be much lower in idle than what CPUz shows.


----------



## AusWolf (Jan 2, 2023)

mechtech said:


> I have a question.  I just upgraded to a 5700x, and power mode is balanced, however CPUZ shows 3600Mhz ish.  No OC or anything.  Shouldn't CnQ or whatever idle the cpu at 800-1200 mhz?
> 
> Can't find it in bios?
> 
> Any thoughts suggestions?


That's because modern Ryzen CPUs change their clock speed so fast that monitoring software can't adapt. It may be 3600 MHz for a few milliseconds to run some background tasks, and much lower for the rest of the time. Nothing to worry about as long as your effective clock reported in HWinfo, and your idle power consumption is right. 

Also, check the slider that shows in the power settings menu when you select balanced mode. It basically toggles how fast your CPU clock responds to such impulses.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 3, 2023)

mechtech said:


> I have a question.  I just upgraded to a 5700x, and power mode is balanced, however CPUZ shows 3600Mhz ish.  No OC or anything.  Shouldn't CnQ or whatever idle the cpu at 800-1200 mhz?
> 
> Can't find it in bios?
> 
> Any thoughts suggestions?


CnQ is long dead
the cores power off completely, go use HWinfo and monitor their effective clocks and C-states


----------



## freeagent (Jan 3, 2023)

My X3D drops down about 100MHz lower than my 5900X, but if its not busy they will have a siesta


----------



## mechtech (Jan 3, 2023)

Mussels said:


> CnQ is long dead
> the cores power off completely, go use HWinfo and monitor their effective clocks and C-states
> View attachment 277263


Reason I bring it up is the cpu fan ramps up and down constantly, unless its crappy gigabyte fan control??  I was thinking cpu is running flat out??


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 3, 2023)

mechtech said:


> Reason I bring it up is the cpu fan ramps up and down constantly, unless its crappy gigabyte fan control??  I was thinking cpu is running flat out??



Welcome to Ryzen since 2019, you must be new to these newer parts lol. You can set a longer fan control period in bios (up to 3 sec). The problem is that Gigabyte's hysteresis (ie. delaying fan-ramp) is just not that good and never really works properly unlike Asus and MSI.

Easily solved by setting a flatter fan curve. I do this on all my rigs. RPM basically constant or very shallow slope until 70 or 80C.


----------



## The Von Matrices (Jan 3, 2023)

I figured I'd put this in the public record since I found zero information online about how well the Ryzen 7000 series works with 4x DS DIMMs. 

AMD spec is DDR5-3600; I was able to get DDR5-4800 CL24 stable. I'm pleasantly surprised. All I had to do was enter the timings manually, set DIMM voltage to 1.35V (manufacturer's spec), and raise SOC to 1.14V. (Note: this is not the system in my specs; this is my brother's system he asked me to optimize).





The cores, on the other hand, are a total dud in terms of overclocking. Any undervolting offset causes system instability, and even setting PBO MAX frequency to +25MHz max causes instability.


----------



## mechtech (Jan 3, 2023)

tabascosauz said:


> Welcome to Ryzen since 2019, you must be new to these newer parts lol. You can set a longer fan control period in bios (up to 3 sec). The problem is that Gigabyte's hysteresis (ie. delaying fan-ramp) is just not that good and never really works properly unlike Asus and MSI.
> 
> Easily solved by setting a flatter fan curve. I do this on all my rigs. RPM basically constant or very shallow slope until 70 or 80C.


Ya I was using a 1700 cpu before this on a different mobo but still was a gigabyte.   Never had an issue. Cpu also seemed to run a lower clocks at idle and low load than this cpu.

is there anyway to reduce idle/low loads clocks via pbo or other?  It does seem to run hotter than the 1700 despite having same 65w rating?

does gigabyte have secure erase?   I didn’t see it but I have seen it in Msi and Asus bios.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 3, 2023)

mechtech said:


> Reason I bring it up is the cpu fan ramps up and down constantly, unless its crappy gigabyte fan control??  I was thinking cpu is running flat out??


That's just shitty default fan settings, fix them



mechtech said:


> Ya I was using a 1700 cpu before this on a different mobo but still was a gigabyte.   Never had an issue. Cpu also seemed to run a lower clocks at idle and low load than this cpu.
> 
> is there anyway to reduce idle/low loads clocks via pbo or other?  It does seem to run hotter than the 1700 despite having same 65w rating?
> 
> does gigabyte have secure erase?   I didn’t see it but I have seen it in Msi and Asus bios.


It's an entirely different CPU and what you're trying to do will cripple its performance
Dont fix what aint broken - fix your fan curve

The link in my sig has details on how to tweak PBO, but you do not want to cripple your performance just to get past the fact you've got bad fan settings and a loud CPU fan


----------



## AusWolf (Jan 3, 2023)

mechtech said:


> Ya I was using a 1700 cpu before this on a different mobo but still was a gigabyte.   Never had an issue. Cpu also seemed to run a lower clocks at idle and low load than this cpu.
> 
> is there anyway to reduce idle/low loads clocks via pbo or other?  It does seem to run hotter than the 1700 despite having same 65w rating?
> 
> does gigabyte have secure erase?   I didn’t see it but I have seen it in Msi and Asus bios.


Don't worry about idle clocks - they're not real. Unused cores are actually parked most of the time, but monitoring software, including windows task manager doesn't pick this up. Look at your power consumption instead. If it's around 12-15 W, or thereabouts, you're fine.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 3, 2023)

AusWolf said:


> Don't worry about idle clocks - they're not real. Unused cores are actually parked most of the time, but monitoring software, including windows task manager doesn't pick this up. Look at your power consumption instead. If it's around 12-15 W, or thereabouts, you're fine.


^ HWinfo shows the C-states and effective clocks, my screenshot a few posts up is the best way to see it

3.7GHz but 95% C1 shows those cores are having sleepytimes


----------



## mechtech (Jan 3, 2023)

Mussels said:


> That's just shitty default fan settings, fix them
> 
> It's an entirely different CPU and what you're trying to do will cripple its performance
> Dont fix what aint broken - fix your fan curve
> ...


Done
Thanks
Flattened the curve, seems to be much better now.

A few bios questions - should I leave these at default?
Resize bar - off
HPET - on
IOMMU - on
Secure boot - disabled

cheers

edit - so this all run of the mill for this cpu then?


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Jan 3, 2023)

mechtech said:


> Resize bar - off


Turn that on if you game. It can help performance quite a bit.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 4, 2023)

rebar should be on
Hwinfo needs those values while you're under load/stress tests, idle readings have their use but they wont idenfity performance or thermal issues


And yes the way these chips work in general is that amperage is what harms them, not voltage
Therefore, a single thread can have a lot higher voltage and ramp up fast and hot for light tasks, while a benchmark using all threads spreads that power of a greater area, and can run colder


Some brands give no shits about actually testing their products, and ship with fan curves based on core 2 duos by the look of them. They don't suit the CPU's, stock coolers or aftermarket coolers


----------



## mechtech (Jan 4, 2023)

8 hour P95 run.  Never seen my 1700 break 58C, looks like these 5k series run hotter, but I guess 7nm vs 14nm gets more dense and less surface area, so more heat.


----------



## Super XP (Jan 4, 2023)

mechtech said:


> 8 hour P95 run.  Never seen my 1700 break 58C, looks like these 5k series run hotter, but I guess 7nm vs 14nm gets more dense and less surface area, so more heat.


Well that is really good. Mine breaks up to around 60-70C if not a bit more when running stuff like Cinemark or something. And its water cooled with the corsair closed loop Corsair H115i PRO RGB &  280mm Radiator.


----------



## AusWolf (Jan 4, 2023)

mechtech said:


> 8 hour P95 run.  Never seen my 1700 break 58C, looks like these 5k series run hotter, but I guess 7nm vs 14nm gets more dense and less surface area, so more heat.


Yep. It's normal, don't worry about it.


----------



## mechtech (Jan 5, 2023)

Super XP said:


> Well that is really good. Mine breaks up to around 60-70C if not a bit more when running stuff like Cinemark or something. And its water cooled with the corsair closed loop Corsair H115i PRO RGB &  280mm Radiator.


Well it did hit 72C with about 64C average.  The current temps were a few minutes after closing it.  Check the max temps.


----------



## Mussels (Saturday at 4:41 AM)

mechtech said:


> 8 hour P95 run.  Never seen my 1700 break 58C, looks like these 5k series run hotter, but I guess 7nm vs 14nm gets more dense and less surface area, so more heat.


Not more heat - harder to transfer heat


----------



## mechtech (Saturday at 5:39 AM)

Mussels said:


> Not more heat - harder to transfer heat


Correct.  Grammar/phonics is important


----------



## Mussels (Saturday at 8:43 AM)

It's critical to understanding the issues and how to resolve them, the amount of people on social media saying that AMD CPU's are "hotter" followed by random crap like that a higher CPU temperature means a hotter room (the opposite is true - better cooling vents heat to the room faster)

All because incorrect or vague phrasing (particularly from youtubers) led them down a rabbit hole of misunderstanding


----------



## freeagent (Saturday at 5:57 PM)

The last time I pulled X3D from my system the CPU stuck to the cooler, was not expecting that when I was removing it. Of course the CPU had to come out with it.. bending some pins in the process . and I didnt notice until yesterday when my CPU would not socket. 

And of course now that I am old I cant see shit up close, and all of those pins just blend into a golden blur so I cant fix it until I go get glasses 

Never once had this problem with AM4 since I started using it, but this latest batch of TF7 is sticky. I quit using it. FFS. This is one of the reasons why I left 939.

I got those old feelings once again


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Saturday at 6:33 PM)

freeagent said:


> The last time I pulled X3D from my system the CPU stuck to the cooler, was not expecting that when I was removing it. Of course the CPU had to come out with it.. bending some pins in the process . and I didnt notice until yesterday when my CPU would not socket.
> 
> And of course now that I am old I cant see shit up close, and all of those pins just blend into a golden blur so I cant fix it until I go get glasses
> 
> ...


Do you have a soldering station or helping hands? A magnifying glass might help, and a mounted one is even better.


----------



## freeagent (Saturday at 6:37 PM)

Count von Schwalbe said:


> Do you have a soldering station or helping hands? A magnifying glass might help, and a mounted one is even better.


I might try to take it to a jeweler. They are all intact, but out just a few degrees, just enough to mess up the alignment. There are 4 or 5 pins I think. My wife has good vision, but her hands are not steady enough. No chance of my bank card getting in there, and my mech. pencil was too girthy


----------



## Norton (Saturday at 6:39 PM)

freeagent said:


> And of course now that I am old I cant see shit up close, and all of those pins just blend into a golden blur so I cant fix it until I go get glasses


Setup your smart phone on a couple of stands and use the camera... I used mine propped up on 2 empty cigarette packs and straightened the pins by running a razor blade carefully along the rows. Worked like a charm and my eyes are terrible too


----------



## freeagent (Saturday at 6:44 PM)

Norton said:


> Setup your smart phone on a couple of stands and use the camera... I used mine propped up on 2 empty cigarette packs and straightened the pins by running a razor blade carefully along the rows. Worked like a charm and my eyes are terrible too


That is some clever thinking!

Thank you kindly sir, I do have all of those, cept the ciggy packs.. gave those up


----------



## stinger608 (Saturday at 6:45 PM)

freeagent said:


> And of course now that I am old I cant see shit up close, and all of those pins just blend into a golden blur so I cant fix it until I go get glasses



Run to a cheap store and grab a pair of them cheap reading glasses. 

Cheap and work great.


----------



## freeagent (Saturday at 6:47 PM)

stinger608 said:


> Run to a cheap store and grab a pair of them cheap reading glasses.


----------



## Norton (Saturday at 6:58 PM)

freeagent said:


> That is some clever thinking!
> 
> Thank you kindly sir, I do have all of those, cept the ciggy packs.. gave those up


Processor boxes will work too


----------



## Super Firm Tofu (Saturday at 7:11 PM)

stinger608 said:


> Run to a cheap store and grab a pair of them cheap reading glasses.
> 
> Cheap and work great.





freeagent said:


>



Essentials of my PC Building kit:


----------



## freeagent (Saturday at 7:11 PM)

I was really cranky when I realized I couldn’t see what I was doing no matter what light I tried lol. To me it was hopeless so I kinda just shut down when my efforts failed. After I get my todo list done I will go back and try to fix my cpu. It just made me sad every time I looked at it.

Maybe that was fate. I am between jobs right now and was going to sell my 5900X and use my X3D. This is a sign to keep them


----------



## Veseleil (Saturday at 7:37 PM)

I bent bunch of pins on my 3600 the same day it got delivered. The idiot (me), unpacked it and returned it to the shitty plastic enclosure it came with, but facing the wrong side. It was a nightmare as pins on two of the sides were bent at almost 45 degrees angle. Even the second row. Thankfully, it's a high quality gold they used. The tools I've used were razor blade and a mechanical pencil:


----------



## igralec84 (Monday at 9:25 AM)

Is SuperPi32M a reliable way to test Curve Optimizer settings?
I'm going thread by thread for those 5 minutes it takes and CCD1 seems to work at -22 to -25, seems a bit too good to be true. Planning on using Core Cycler when i find out where SuperPi doesn't BSOD or freeze. The first core on CCD2 crashed at -13 so seems to need -12, since the CCD2 is over 100mhz slower than CCD1, not sure if that means more CO or less.

The only thing so far that crashes most of the time (did it even at all core -13) is 3Dmark Cpu profile at single thread, but might also be the RAM as TM5 throws 6 errors in 2 hours (karhu memtest does 4500+%), might need to raise TRFC above 600 or something. Haven't had any game or random crashes yet, though


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Tuesday at 2:36 AM)

Kissamies said:


> Intel platform isn't as sensitive to RAM speed as Ryzen. When I switched from 16GB @ 2666 to 32GB @ 3466 I saw a significant boost.


Ryzen stinks at 2666.


----------



## freeagent (Tuesday at 2:40 AM)

igralec84 said:


> Is SuperPi32M a reliable way to test Curve Optimizer settings?


If you can run a full round or two of 32m on a single core or thread it should be ok..

Edit:

If not the computer will probably blink out and restart


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Tuesday at 2:40 AM)

tabascosauz said:


> Asus is artificially stingy about the fan control, and like they do for certain other settings they will intentionally hide controls on boards that aren't real-ROG (Crosshair).
> 
> Last I checked my B550 Strix-I had no fan control (it is B550 but has a VRM fan under here).
> The X570 Strix-I has no control over its two fans, unless modded BIOS. Has caused a lot of people frustration.


Sounds like something I would expect on a lousy "-VM" motherboard from 19-20 years ago!



freeagent said:


> The last time I pulled X3D from my system the CPU stuck to the cooler, was not expecting that when I was removing it. Of course the CPU had to come out with it.. bending some pins in the process . and I didnt notice until yesterday when my CPU would not socket.


I always do the twisty motion routine, and that's likely why that only happened to me with a Pentium 4 2.2 GHz (IIRC) (Northwood, I believe) that I wasn't using, LOL.



tabascosauz said:


> So essentially, good luck buddy, we ain't promising shit


Sounds like the meme of DDR2 @ 533 MHz (1066) or 450 MHz, (900) LOL.


----------



## freeagent (Tuesday at 3:35 AM)

It still stings.

Its on my kitchen table in its clamshell.

On another note.. I grabbed the TL-B12 Extreme fans that were on my sons Ultra120 Extreme and threw them on the floor of my Torrent, and gave him the rainbow fans that I was using, they came from PA120SE. His system is in a Define R4 right now, I think tommorow I will get him into my Meshify C and give him the white PA120SE. Hoping I can use the fan clips from TRUE on PA120 because I somehow lost 3 of its 4 fan clips.

Those PA120SE fans are a step down in quality from their Pro and Extreme series fans for sure. But if they are cheap they work ok, not a fan of their tone, but its good enough for the kids


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Tuesday at 3:38 AM)

Mussels said:


> Had a random reboot while gaming
> 
> Sad
> 
> ...


Remember these words:

Hot=Acts like bronze! Cold=Acts like gold!


----------



## freeagent (Tuesday at 5:02 AM)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> Hot=Acts like bronze! Cold=Acts like gold


They don't mind the heat.. they do enjoy ample power limits though.


----------



## tabascosauz (Tuesday at 5:13 AM)

igralec84 said:


> Is SuperPi32M a reliable way to test Curve Optimizer settings?
> I'm going thread by thread for those 5 minutes it takes and CCD1 seems to work at -22 to -25, seems a bit too good to be true. Planning on using Core Cycler when i find out where SuperPi doesn't BSOD or freeze. The first core on CCD2 crashed at -13 so seems to need -12, since the CCD2 is over 100mhz slower than CCD1, not sure if that means more CO or less.
> 
> The only thing so far that crashes most of the time (did it even at all core -13) is 3Dmark Cpu profile at single thread, but might also be the RAM as TM5 throws 6 errors in 2 hours (karhu memtest does 4500+%), might need to raise TRFC above 600 or something. Haven't had any game or random crashes yet, though



Why not ycruncher? This is my testing config for CO, just remember to set the individual core every time you run ycruncher. I would go default cfg corecycler first because it's a faster test. I wouldn't go in reverse from something else to corecycler (unless that something else is something worthless like cinebench).





Max clock on x core never indicates anything for what that core can achieve on CO. Counterproductive to start going off of assumptions like that. CO value is only representative of how distant the stock core V-F is set from what that core is really capable of.


----------



## freeagent (Tuesday at 5:36 AM)

My 5900 is a pathetic sample when it comes to being corecycler stable 

No one should listen to me when it comes to a 5900X and absolute stability.. seriously 

My 5600X is cc stable at +150, but I give it +200 anyways because there are no problems


----------



## Space Lynx (Tuesday at 6:51 AM)

freeagent said:


> My 5900 is a pathetic sample when it comes to being corecycler stable
> 
> No one should listen to me when it comes to a 5900X and absolute stability.. seriously
> 
> My 5600X is cc stable at +150, but I give it +200 anyways because there are no problems



yeah I noticed with ryzen 5600 i can pass everything I throw at it on oc's (including games for 3-4 hours) and then it will fail prime 95, but then its just like, well it passes everything else, so fuck prime95.

Actually Hardcore Overclocking on Youtube actually talked about this once, he said his home gaming rig actually won't pass prime95, but it doesn't matter for everything else. 

I would prefer if it passed everything, but prime95 is just so unrealistic for casual users after 10-15 minutes, its like meh. don't care anymore.


----------



## AusWolf (Tuesday at 7:03 AM)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> Remember these words:
> 
> Hot=Acts like bronze! Cold=Acts like gold!


I just had a look at my event viewer to be safe... I don't have any WHEAs, but a lot of "DistributedCOM 10016" warnings. Is this something to be concerned about?


----------



## igralec84 (Tuesday at 8:28 AM)

freeagent said:


> If you can run a full round or two of 32m on a single core or thread it should be ok..
> 
> Edit:
> 
> If not the computer will probably blink out and restart



I've been sticking to that so far, if it crashes i try it again just to make sure, core 8 (1st one of CCD2) was pretty clear 4 times in a row that it doesn't like -13   



tabascosauz said:


> Why not ycruncher? This is my testing config for CO, just remember to set the individual core every time you run ycruncher. I would go default cfg corecycler first because it's a faster test. I wouldn't go in reverse from something else to corecycler (unless that something else is something worthless like cinebench).
> 
> View attachment 278379
> 
> Max clock on x core never indicates anything for what that core can achieve on CO. Counterproductive to start going off of assumptions like that. CO value is only representative of how distant the stock core V-F is set from what that core is really capable of.



I think corecycler that i have uses some 1usmus ycruncher setup and preset, i've running it to confirm the values from time to time if superPi doesn't crash on a thread. It hasn't crashed yet but i'm running 2 minutes per core currently. Also did around 30 mins of prime95 small FFTs and it didn't crash, but i'm sure 3Dmark CPU profile still would in at least 2/5 cases. Maybe i should run the RAM at XMP 5600 CL40 first and see what happens, but i haven't had an idle or random crash while doing nothing for a while now, so for my daily/gaming use it is stable it seems.
CCD2 seems to be not as good for CO, on CCD1 all cores are over -20 while on CCD2 one doesn't do -13 and another doesn't do -18, the other six are currently at -15.
 If PBO +100 means x58.5 multiplier, i'm almost reaching it on one core with 5830mhz. 
I did notice ASrock pulled the 1.14 BIOS i'm using due to people having BSOD issues, so hmm... might continue playing with all this on the next BIOS if they think something is messed up


----------



## Veseleil (Tuesday at 2:17 PM)

Space Lynx said:


> but prime95 is just so unrealistic for casual users after 10-15 minutes


From my own experience with small FFTs, if it doesn't pop up with errors after a few tests/passes, it won't show errors even if it's running for hours. 
The obvious hint that the system isn't stable is any of the newer Cinebenches. Mostly it crashes in the middle or the very end, or it won't start at all, followed with an error notification.


----------



## Space Lynx (Tuesday at 2:46 PM)

Veseleil said:


> From my own experience with small FFTs, if it doesn't pop up with errors after a few tests/passes, it won't show errors even if it's running for hours.
> The obvious hint that the system isn't stable is any of the newer Cinebenches. Mostly it crashes in the middle or the very end, or it won't start at all, followed with an error notification.



if my games never crash I no longer care about the synthetic crap. I get it though, most people like that peace of mind, fair enough


----------



## freeagent (Tuesday at 3:13 PM)

OCCT is a quick and dirty test to get you in the ball park. I wouldn't rely on superpi.


----------



## Space Lynx (Tuesday at 3:19 PM)

freeagent said:


> OCCT is a quick and dirty test to get you in the ball park. I wouldn't rely on superpi.



I have always felt that if I can pass Aida64 stability for 10 minutes and Cinebench 10 minute run I am good to go. I don't bother with anything else, never used OCCT once in my life, I might give it a go though, thanks!


----------



## freeagent (Tuesday at 3:25 PM)

AMD CPUs are kinda funny at first if you are coming from Intel.. They are sneaky, and tricky, and they will eff you up 

Don't be afraid to be thorough


----------



## igralec84 (Tuesday at 3:29 PM)

freeagent said:


> OCCT is a quick and dirty test to get you in the ball park. I wouldn't rely on superpi.



Did one benchmark single thread SSE and it rebooted almost immediately  Wish i knew which thread it was 

EDIT: oh it actually has a last known status and after 8s cores 3 and 7 were at 68 and 63°C while others were 40-50, might be one of them


----------



## 3x0 (Tuesday at 3:38 PM)

igralec84 said:


> Did one benchmark single thread SSE and it rebooted almost immediately  Wish i knew which thread it was


Go to Event viewer and look for whea 18 errors, APIC ID will tell you what thread crashed. If it's APIC ID 7 then core 3 crashed


----------



## freeagent (Tuesday at 3:40 PM)

3 and 4 always gave me trouble. Always the first to go in core cycler.


----------



## igralec84 (Tuesday at 3:51 PM)

If i choose just one core to run the test, core 0 throws 30k errors in a couple of seconds, so seems to be at least that one as it's at -25  Will go over all of them now for a minute, better than 10 minutes i spent on each in superpi and thought it was stable as it didn't crash.

Surprise surprise, it's both cores that have -25 CO


----------



## AusWolf (Tuesday at 8:23 PM)

freeagent said:


> AMD CPUs are kinda funny at first if you are coming from Intel.. They are sneaky, and tricky, and they will eff you up
> 
> Don't be afraid to be thorough


Intel is "plug and play". AMD is "plug and play with it".


----------



## freeagent (Tuesday at 8:35 PM)

AusWolf said:


> Intel is "plug and play". AMD is "plug and play with it".


Nah..

I came from Intel and had no problems with my setup. I was totally green. The guys here helped me pick my parts and then to tune it later on. Smooth sailing for me


----------



## tabascosauz (Tuesday at 8:40 PM)

freeagent said:


> Nah..
> 
> I came from Intel and had no problems with my setup. I was totally green. The guys here helped me pick my parts and then to tune it later on. Smooth sailing for me



hey 3600XT is like, cheating   you missed all the "fun" of 2019


----------



## AusWolf (Tuesday at 8:43 PM)

tabascosauz said:


> hey 3600XT is like, cheating   you missed all the "fun" of 2019


Nah. If you wanted a real plug and play experience on AMD back then, 3100 + A520 board all the way!


----------



## freeagent (Tuesday at 8:46 PM)

tabascosauz said:


> hey 3600XT is like, cheating   you missed all the "fun" of 2019


I really and truly did. I didn't even read about the troubles people were having. So for me coming in at the end of AM4, it was really a smooth ride, a pleasure even 

And then you guys were making me feel stoked by telling me how good I was doing.. meanwhile it was pretty easy because the silicon did all the work for me 

The real challenge for me came when I got 5900X and I was obsessed with getting it to boost to its limit 

Good times


----------



## tabascosauz (Tuesday at 8:47 PM)

freeagent said:


> I really and truly did. I didn't even read about the troubles people were having. So for me coming in at the end of AM4, it was really a smooth ride, a pleasure even
> 
> And then you guys were making me feel stoked by telling me how good I was doing.. meanwhile it was pretty easy because the silicon did all the work for me
> 
> ...



AMD within 6 months of launch:







AMD after 6 months:








Too bad I forgot all about my own advice when dealing with Radeon Technologies Group, so I'm reliving purgatory all over again.


----------



## AusWolf (Tuesday at 8:49 PM)

freeagent said:


> I really and truly did. I didn't even read about the troubles people were having. So for me coming in at the end of AM4, it was really a smooth ride, a pleasure even
> 
> And then you guys were making me feel stoked by telling me how good I was doing.. meanwhile it was pretty easy because the silicon did all the work for me
> 
> ...


Or you could have just bought a 3100 that boosts to its 3.9 GHz limit all the time, in every scenario, straight out of the box.


----------



## freeagent (Tuesday at 8:53 PM)

AusWolf said:


> Or you could have just bought a 3100 that boosts to its 3.9 GHz limit all the time, in every scenario, straight out of the box.


But...

Why have 3900 when you can have 5150?

Besides.. XT was the same price as the vaginilla, and was always meant to be a placeholder for 5600X. I am totally fine with 5600X btw.. I wanted a GPU when I bought 5900X but couldn't get one..

And with the way I have my setup currently, I can run it fast and quiet.. not as quiet as I could run my X3D though.. sadface.

Maybe tomorrow I will make another attempt to fix it.


----------



## AusWolf (Tuesday at 8:59 PM)

freeagent said:


> But...
> 
> Why have 3900 when you can have 5150?
> 
> ...


I was only joking. 

I only had the 3100 as a placeholder when I sold my 5950X (I realised I didn't need 16 cores after a couple of months). Then I kept it as a HTPC processor because it grew so close to me. It's like a puppy wagging its tail when she sees you. Even though you wanted a cat all along, you end up keeping her because she's too cute to give away. A friend of mine wants a mini indie gamer rig for his daughter, and I just upgraded my HTPC with the 11700 that came out of my main rig when I switched to AM5, so the trusty 3100 might find a new home eventually, after all.


----------



## Mussels (Wednesday at 5:10 AM)

freeagent said:


> The last time I pulled X3D from my system the CPU stuck to the cooler, was not expecting that when I was removing it. Of course the CPU had to come out with it.. bending some pins in the process . and I didnt notice until yesterday when my CPU would not socket.
> 
> And of course now that I am old I cant see shit up close, and all of those pins just blend into a golden blur so I cant fix it until I go get glasses
> 
> ...


Good news, even broken pins can be replaced
Always try and twist to remove, and heat up before removing when possible - i'll power up a mobo with CPU but no ram or GPU to let it warm up slightly, if i have to

quite often you can sit the CPU over the socket, and gently 'spiral*' it around - the sockets themselves have a slight curve to them to help guide the pins in, and they can self-repair slight bends
(If the bends are all in one direction, you can of course have it slightly to that side and push that one direction with gentle downward pressure)



*Terrible word for what i'm explaining, but i've done this with 939 CPU's long ago that i bent. Once you get the worst ones lined up, the rest self guide in


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## freeagent (Wednesday at 5:13 AM)

Mussels said:


> Good news, even broken pins can be replaced
> Always try and twist to remove, and heat up before removing when possible - i'll power up a mobo with CPU but no ram or GPU to let it warm up slightly, if i have to
> 
> quite often you can sit the CPU over the socket, and gently 'spiral*' it around - the sockets themselves have a slight curve to them to help guide the pins in, and they can self-repair slight bends
> ...


Thank you sir I will try that tomorrow!


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## Mussels (Wednesday at 5:15 AM)

igralec84 said:


> Is SuperPi32M a reliable way to test Curve Optimizer settings?


You need to leave it running for a long time at low/zero load as well, like browsing the web and such

Most of my CO crashes came about from ending tests, as the CPU Switched between low and high power states



freeagent said:


> Thank you sir I will try that tomorrow!


I'll do one of my infmaous MS paint examples
I got SUPER lazy and the unimportant bits are not to scale in the slightest
So if the red pins are bent out, you line up the CPU so they're straight and get them JUST in the socket the tiniest amount - then move the CPU closer and closer to the correct orientation gently
small amounts of up and down left and right movement as you straighten it increase the odds of any bent pins finding their home and sliding in








Zero harm in getting the outside ones straightened, lifting the CPU out, and trying again starting slightly lifted from all four sides in turn - only lifted a very slight angle


Normal install:





Fixing pins bent to the 'left' in this image, you'd move the CPU to the left of the socket (Now i mean like 0.1mm off center, not a lot) and gently push to the right and down at the same time
You can then try this from all four directions and simply see if one direction will let the CPU sit in the socket naturally, where straight down fails

The scale of how angled to have the CPU is of course off, we're definitely talking a very small angle and very slightly off center - think of how little it'd take a CPU with straight pins to be shifted around before it lined up and fell down into the socket, if it wasnt sat down slightly rotated or something





Like if this was a stock CPU and you just had to twist that little bit for the pins to line up, that's the gentle level of effort here - these bent pins just have a new position that may be a little to one side or a little rotated before they fit in, and once its in once and latched in, they'll work normally (or very close to it) for every future install


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## igralec84 (Wednesday at 9:16 AM)

Mussels said:


> You need to leave it running for a long time at low/zero load as well, like browsing the web and such
> 
> Most of my CO crashes came about from ending tests, as the CPU Switched between low and high power states



I see, even the OCCT errors i can't really replicate, can be 3 times in a row after 1s but then 5 times nothing for 5 minutes, so really random. I did get one of those yeah, when the test ended it just rebooted. 

I've settled for CCD1 all cores on -20 and CCD2 all cores on -15 for now, a bit better than all core -13 i ran for a month.

Did some tweaks to the RAM timings & voltages and have to run memtest & TM5 again to see if it TM5 still gets errors after 2 hours while karhu doesn't after 5 hours.

I guess as long as i don't get crashes while gaming or after gaming / while launching a game (Steam client seems suspicious), i'll consider it stable, like @Space Lynx said.


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## Veseleil (Wednesday at 1:06 PM)

Mussels said:


> You need to leave it running for a long time at low/zero load as well, like browsing the web and such
> 
> Most of my CO crashes came about from ending tests, as the CPU Switched between low and high power states
> 
> ...


Like for the effort.


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## Arco (Wednesday at 1:12 PM)

Veseleil said:


> From my own experience with small FFTs, if it doesn't pop up with errors after a few tests/passes, it won't show errors even if it's running for hours.
> The obvious hint that the system isn't stable is any of the newer Cinebenches. Mostly it crashes in the middle or the very end, or it won't start at all, followed with an error notification.


My system can pass prime95. But cinebench23 went boom due to the power kernel. 

It happens when it starts or when the power goes from nil to a lot.


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## Mussels (Yesterday at 1:15 AM)

Arco said:


> My system can pass prime95. But cinebench23 went boom due to the power kernel.
> 
> It happens when it starts or when the power goes from nil to a lot.


R23 is AVX load which is higher power draw



igralec84 said:


> I see, even the OCCT errors i can't really replicate, can be 3 times in a row after 1s but then 5 times nothing for 5 minutes, so really random. I did get one of those yeah, when the test ended it just rebooted.
> 
> I've settled for CCD1 all cores on -20 and CCD2 all cores on -15 for now, a bit better than all core -13 i ran for a month.
> 
> ...


Your CO voltages are too low, or your SoC voltage is too low/IF clocked too high


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## Count von Schwalbe (Yesterday at 2:19 AM)

I'm here to gate crash the Zen garden - got two X3D systems on order for work 

Also the emoji works way better than it should

Damn it I'm talking like Mussels. 

So I followed y'all's advice on the parts and have a couple of nice systems on order - might make a thread when they get here, IDK. 

The joys of working in a small business  I get the ideal system even if mine has to be on its last legs to get a new one.


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## Mussels (Yesterday at 3:20 AM)

I'm pretty sure the multiple short sentences is an ADHD thing, sorry it's contagious. (Even the sub-thoughts in brackets are part of it)


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## freeagent (Yesterday at 3:27 AM)

Lol.

Its because we spend too much time in front of a screen. I am not talking lately, just cumulative


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## mechtech (Yesterday at 4:17 AM)

Count von Schwalbe said:


> I'm here to gate crash the Zen garden - got two X3D systems on order for work
> 
> Also the emoji works way better than it should
> 
> ...


In an Aussie accent with all their weird slang words??

Sometimes I catch myself saying spanneR or torch or earthing or thongs in an Aussie accent........well bound to happen working with a bunch of Aussie miners for almost a year.


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## Mussels (Yesterday at 5:04 AM)

mechtech said:


> In an Aussie accent with all their weird slang words??


I confused the teenagers around here talking in texas slang thanks to all my gaming with JC316


Oh oh oh my housemate got an official themed razer gaming chair, but not razer branded. The actual brand is even bettererer.








And at the risk of going off topic, this is an image i find extremely hilarious
This is her sitting in the chair




She is not tall.


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## igralec84 (Yesterday at 9:09 AM)

Mussels said:


> Your CO voltages are too low, or your SoC voltage is too low/IF clocked too high



You're right as 5 runs with CO off all passed, but with CO on 4 out of 5 rebooted). Only recently raised IF from 2000 to 2067 to see if it works as it usually didn't.

I see you can do customs runs of 3Dmark Cpu profile, i'll do some single thread runs try to find out if it's a specific thread/core that almost always crashes and reduce the CO on it.  It's probably one of the -20 CCD1 cores as it would be smart from the program to use one of them for best results.


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## Arco (Yesterday at 12:13 PM)

Mussels said:


> R23 is AVX load which is higher power draw


Any ideas? (I'm really a complete beginner in real PC stuff.)

Edit: Probably a good idea to include any bios settings.  

Auto OC, Plus all core curves, and EXPO 6000@CL36. 7950x on a X670E Steel Legend.


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## Mussels (Yesterday at 12:14 PM)

Arco said:


> Any ideas? (I'm really a complete beginner in real PC stuff.)


It just means the overclock or undervolt isn't stable

you need higher voltages or lower clocks, on whatever you've changed


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## Arco (Yesterday at 12:26 PM)

Mussels said:


> It just means the overclock or undervolt isn't stable
> 
> you need higher voltages or lower clocks, on whatever you've changed


Thanks, I'll check out some videos on youtube and see what I can do. The worst case is to turn off Auto OC.


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## igralec84 (Yesterday at 4:25 PM)

Wow i just spent 1,5h testing single thread in CPU profile and it seems PBO +100 is the reason thread 5 aka core 2 crashes. Tried CO -20 to +10, also set the RAM to XMP 5600 and also the 4800, but it didn't matter, it was the PBO +100.

Haven't had a single crash with a questionable 6000 CL30 tight RAM OC and PBO +100, CO -12 all core in 160+ hours of gaming though. All the pies and OCCT, corecycler, geekbench, CB and the lot also seemed to not have any issues at all CCD1 CO-20, CCD2 CO -15 so yeah... lohk like 3Dmark CPU Profile single thread run is a b*tch


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