# Cost effective transportation, how to live a better life with more money in your pocket, 8.1 kWh per 100 km EV car's. Let's discuss.



## Space Lynx (Sep 7, 2021)

Sketching out some rough ideas... basically what gave me this idea was how hard it is to find decently priced transportation to get back and forth to work.  How vulture like car salesman have been towards me, etc. I absolutely can't believe humanity has come to this. It's really sad and pathetic. There is no reason we can't figure this out.

There are loads and loads of empty warehouses around me that could possibly be converted to EV factories if could get some investment capital. We sure as heck would not be able to do this EV 170 mile range car for $4,700 like China, but I bet you we could pull it for $7,000 MSRP and no middle man car salesman, we could work with direct to door car companies, or outsource to freelance truckers. Probably looking at $1,000 for delivery. Ideally we would get it to the customer door for $7,000 total including tax, etc. Nice and simple like Carvana does it, but without Carvana's markup costs. Basically, instead of say me being CEO or you being CFO and raking in tens of millions, we will have no stocks, we will have no big pay, we will make $60k a year just like the guy on the factory floor, and in fact we will be on the factory floor as well. Maybe we could even work with this company in China in the name of climate change and invest in expanding their company, or possibly importing their cars at $5,000 a pop. 170 mile range is damn good enough for most commuters, the most important key factor here is the 8.1 kWh per 100 km.... which is 200-300% increase in fuel efficiency over the Tesla. Let's face it there is a whole generation of car buyers that just wants to get from point A to point B, and cares about the climate. There is a heck of a lot less to go wrong with a simple design like this car. Most people I know work 5 days a week and get maybe two weeks off for vacation a year, and even then they aren't allowed to take all two weeks at once... in which case if you need range for that one rare long weekend you want to get away, just rent a gas car. With as advanced as robotics have become, minimizing the amount of manpower needed to create this vehicle, improve upon it, and mass manufacture it would be a better goal for any major company looking to take the car market by storm.

Thoughts? It's just a bit of hypothesizing, I am well aware this will probably never happen in the United States, Elon, Bezos, Rivian CEO whoever that is these days, and the list goes on and on, pretend they care about climate change, but the truth is, this is the type of small car movement we need if we have any chance of saving climate. Also, these will be much easier on roads, than bigger cars that we are FORCED to buy because there are simply no other options well priced.

Clock is ticking. How much time do we really have before the turbulence offsets quality of living for the majority of humans? Change needs to happen now.

I think the fatal flaw that everyone like Tesla or Rivian or Ford has is that they think the small car market is shrinking. It's not. In fact all the small cars are sold out right now, the Rio's, the Accent's, etc it's the giant SUV's and pickup trucks that you can see as far as the eye can see on car dealers lots, no shortage for those, if you physically go drive around car lots and have a look for yourself instead of trusting the media. Problem is no one can afford that lifestyle, vast majority of us can't, even if we can most of us our sensible unlike the generations before us, and we want purely economical so we can enjoy other hobbies. If China can pull off a 170 mile range $4700 EV, we can figure this out too. It is the only future really, sure Hyperloop might happen in 150 years, see my link at the bottom of this posting, but for our lifetimes and those of our children, etc... we need change now... and this is the best way to make it happen. Take any young person not making much money (which is most of us) give us this brand new $4700 option in the parking lot, and the next car up I can buy is a 16 grand Kia Rio... guess which car I am buying folks? Heck with this small of an EV, I could probably set up portable solar panels in my back yard with portable charging station to charge my car, never having to pay for gas or electricity for my transportation ever again, all for less than 10k total package.

If billionaires truly cared about climate change they would stop believing the BS about what the markets want (yeah no one bought the ford fiesta cause of all the problems they read about the focus and so on and so forth) guess what... not many problems can happen with a small EV like this, they are fairly straight forward in their engineering, no moving parts, and can even do without a lot of the stuff higher end EV's have. Someone needs to step up to the plate. Contact some robotics manufacturers, investors, companies that have done this type of car overseas, and see what the possibilities are. It's the only way we are going to change the world in time. One piece of the puzzle at a time.

In the mean time, I will keep driving my parents car, because I don't make enough just yet in this crazy market.









						New Volkswagen ID. Life will bring EV to the entry-level in 2025
					

The ID. Life was announced by Volkswagen during the International Motor Show IAA Mobility 2021 held in Munich, where the company also showed a self-driving vehicle made...




					www.techspot.com
				




Source:  https://electrek.co/2021/06/17/4700-electric-car-would-you-buy-wulings-mini-ev/
Source:  







Source:  








Hyperloop thread:








						Seems to me, that Hyperloop is not only the future, it will benefit all of us and save us a lot of time.
					

Watch this video in full before commenting please.  Keep in mind, even in the pandemic like now, hyperloop would still be better than all other modes of public transport (the pods are more sanitary since only small number of people for each one, versus air being exchanged on an entire train...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




Hydrogen thread:








						Why did we abandon hydrogen cars so quickly?
					

The more I look at what Toyota has done (and is doing) with a hydrogen powered internal combustion engine even... I just don't get it. I know storage costs of hydrogen are expensive, but if it were scaled up, wouldn't the cost dramatically lower? The Boring Company could dig giant underground...




					www.techpowerup.com


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## Fourstaff (Sep 7, 2021)

If we take a look at Tesla's 2nd quarter revenues, they sold $10 bln worth of stuff. Chopping $100 mln in management compensation doesn't even amount to rounding error compared to the revenues they are pulling in. I like the way you are thinking, but unless you have a few bln lying around to develop a car, this is currently in fantasy-land.


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## Space Lynx (Sep 7, 2021)

Fourstaff said:


> If we take a look at Tesla's 2nd quarter revenues, they sold $10 bln worth of stuff. Chopping $100 mln in management compensation doesn't even amount to rounding error compared to the revenues they are pulling in. I like the way you are thinking, but unless you have a few bln lying around to develop a car, this is currently in fantasy-land.



That's what the investors are for. Also with a car this small and less parts than a Tesla, also this doesn't need to be fancy at all as you can see from the video in the first source from Electrek.co --- it's very possible with some advanced robotics and investment we could build this type of car on American soil or Canadian soil for very little overhead/manpower costs.

You are correct though overall, sourcing the batteries would be the hardest part (assuming you even found the investors for the initial part of it all lol). Tesla sure as hell wouldn't help us out, god forbid they actually care about efficiency. 8.1 to the moon boys!

Keep in mind this car is outselling Tesla in China, so volume would make up the profits. There is a thirst for this car, not for Tesla among the masses.


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## R-T-B (Sep 7, 2021)

Just as an FYI, you aren't going to get all of the most productive answers here due to the...  let's just call it "skeptical portion" of the user base.  

But kudos for the forward thinking.


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## Space Lynx (Sep 7, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Just as an FYI, you aren't going to get all of the most productive answers here due to the...  let's just call it "skeptical portion" of the user base.
> 
> But kudos for the forward thinking.



I'm aware. I'm just seeing if I get some good idea nuggets here and there... if America truly is a special place on Earth, and I believe it is, then this is not impossible. Short term greed has conquered most in this world, but we are not lost yet.


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## LordFarquaad (Sep 7, 2021)

Climate change is a stealth tax for the rich to prosper, like every other tax, you have superiority issues if you think that a couple of hundred years of industrial revolution has impacted the health of the planet that has been here for billions of years and experienced every climate, temperature and weather extreme known to man and is somehow in danger of wiping everything out because I have 3 TV's and 2 petrol cars, BTW, I'm a volcano insurance salesman in my real life if anyone wants to DM me to purchase cover, we're well overdue one....


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## Space Lynx (Sep 7, 2021)

LordFarquaad said:


> Climate change is a stealth tax for the rich to prosper, like every other tax, you have superiority issues if you think that a couple of hundred years of industrial revolution has impacted the health of the planet that has been here for billions of years and experienced every climate, temperature and weather extreme known to man and is somehow in danger of wiping everything out because I have 3 TV's and 2 petrol cars, BTW, I'm a volcano insurance salesman in my real life if anyone wants to DM me to purchase cover, we're well overdue one....



I never said there should be any climate change tax. In fact, my current proposal here is to do with the free markets and nothing to do with the government or people like you (investment capital from private entities willing to take a risk on a big idea, but if my idea of volume is correct and I believe it is they will have some profits as well, just not as wide of margins of profit they might get with the other corrupt industries and the investors will know that going into it or I wouldn't accept them as investors --- I am referring to various big banks here btw), in fact its so cheap of an idea, it won't even need or qualify for the 7500 tax credit, cause unlike Congress and Nissan Leaf/Chevy Bolt/Tesla, I see what the masses truly want.

This thread though, probably still isn't for you. You are not the demographic at all. So take care.

This idea won't ever take off anyway. It's just trying to bounce some ideas around and see what comes out the other end.


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## LordFarquaad (Sep 7, 2021)

But it is a tax scheme, nothing more, rich people get richer from climate change schemes, and schmucks like you and me who aren't mega rich pay for it all, like I said you have illusions of grandeur if you think that all of us using a little bit less electricity will cure the world, we'll be gone in the blink of an eye and the planet won't shed a tear, climate change is a money making scheme from those who are already more rich than they know what to do with to get more rich


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## Space Lynx (Sep 7, 2021)

LordFarquaad said:


> But it is a tax scheme, nothing more, rich people get richer from climate change schemes, and schmucks like you and me who aren't mega rich pay for it all, like I said you have illusions of grandeur if you think that all of us using a little bit less electricity will cure the world, we'll be gone in the blink of an eye and the planet won't shed a tear, climate change is a money making scheme from those who are already more rich than they know what to do with to get more rich



Alright, take that stuff out of the equation. Guess what bud? I like my money. I don't want to spend it on gas or electricity or expensive cars (yes a 16k car to me is expensive) a car is a tool for me to get to point A to point B. More money in my pocket from transportation overall savings = more money I can save for other hobbies. I only bring climate change in to it because it is something I believe in, it is fine if you don't. Regardless of that though, at end of day its about money, and lot of my friends and myself don't make much money, we want budget transportation. There is a market for this. A big one.

That 8.1 efficiency is with a box car design btw. We could probably get that down to 7 with aerodynamic design. More money in my pocket.


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## R-T-B (Sep 7, 2021)

LordFarquaad said:


> Climate change is a stealth tax for the rich to prosper,


Yeah, one that cooked the Pacific Northwest this year pretty bad.


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## LordFarquaad (Sep 7, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Alright, take that stuff out of the equation. Guess what bud? I like my money. I don't want to spend it on gas or electricity or expensive cars (yes a 16k car to me is expensive) a car is a tool for me to get to point A to point B. More money in my pocket from transportation overall savings = more money I can save for other hobbies. I only bring climate change in to it because it is something I believe in, it is fine if you don't. Regardless of that though, at end of day its about money, and lot of my friends and myself don't make much money, we want budget transportation. There is a market for this. A big one.
> 
> That 8.1 efficiency is with a box car design btw. We could probably get that down to 7 with aerodynamic design. More money in my pocket.


But that has nothing to do with climate change, you have been conditioned to believe that you are

A: causing climate change
B: can stop climate change

When in fact none of those are true, things are expensive because there is a natural order to things, and for centuries those in power have deemed you not worthy to afford all of the luxuries that the wealthy elites can, and nothing you do will change that.

We earn enough money to make ends meet and hardly anything more, because that way we are easy to control, you can strive all you want but you will never become elite status, those who run things do not classify you the same as themselves, this is a fact, and I'm sorry you hate me for telling you these things, but the world has been run like this for many centuries and pretty successfully


R-T-B said:


> Yeah, one that cooked the Pacific Northwest this year pretty bad.


Ya, I'm in middle England right now at the start of September and it's 30c for the next 3 days, does that quantify me thinking that the earth is coming to an end?  best get prepping  There are peaks and troughs when it comes to the weather and temperatures, FS is this 2021 or 1500 BC where praying to the sun god will save us all from destruction from the angry earth gods....


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## Space Lynx (Sep 7, 2021)

LordFarquaad said:


> We earn enough money to make ends meet and hardly anything more, because that way we are easy to control, you can strive all you want but you will never become elite status, those who run things do not classify you the same as themselves, this is a fact, and I'm sorry you hate me for telling you these things, but the world has been run like this for many centuries and pretty successfully



Don't hate ya. However, I can maximize my income if I spend less on transportation. This thread isn't for you though, it's time to move on.


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## LordFarquaad (Sep 7, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Don't hate ya. However, I can maximize my income if I spend less on transportation. This thread isn't for you though, it's time to move on.


I think I'll say when it's time for me to move on, though thank you for your concern  

it's funny, you enjoy being lied to and accept it, but the moment someone tells you how it really is you get uncomfortable and want to dismiss me, I didn't see "members only" on the threads front door, so I think I'll stay here if that's all the same to you 

I am however about to retire to my bed for the night, so at least you can pretend that I have gone away


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## Fourstaff (Sep 7, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> That's what the investors are for. Also with a car this small and less parts than a Tesla, also this doesn't need to be fancy at all as you can see from the video in the first source from Electrek.co --- it's very possible with some advanced robotics and investment we could build this type of car on American soil or Canadian soil for very little overhead/manpower costs.
> 
> You are correct though overall, sourcing the batteries would be the hardest part (assuming you even found the investors for the initial part of it all lol). Tesla sure as hell wouldn't help us out, god forbid they actually care about efficiency. 8.1 to the moon boys!
> 
> Keep in mind this car is outselling Tesla in China, so volume would make up the profits. There is a thirst for this car, not for Tesla among the masses.


I would suggest you read up on Tesla, and the pains they faced to mass produce cars. Elon had the same thought as what you said: get investors (people who pre-pay their Teslas), build automation etc etc.


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## c2DDragon (Sep 7, 2021)

Step 1 : Hugely tax kerosen.
Step 2 : Release domestic water engines.
Step 3 : Use thunders' energy and stop producing toxic batteries while people would use water engines.
Step 4 : Continue to eat meat, use your car, feel good not listening medias blaming you and making you think you can do anything when the countries/rest of the world doesn't care.
Step 5 : Use thunders' power to travel.
Step 6 : Go fishing thinking you will probably die from a supervolcano or a supernova or a meteor/comet or a drunk driver behind a stupid AI car before Earth will kill you.


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## Space Lynx (Sep 7, 2021)

Fourstaff said:


> I would suggest you read up on Tesla, and the pains they faced to mass produce cars. Elon had the same thought as what you said: get investors (people who pre-pay their Teslas), build automation etc etc.



Tesla is selling to a niche market. I'd be selling to the masses. Volume. Also, the idea would be to get a current car company (on the brink of leaving the industry like Honda just left the United States) maybe they could be talked into staying, not abandoning their factories, re-purpose them. Pump these small EV's out to the moon baby. Will outsell Tesla within two months. No one cares about stupid self-drive. We want cheap point A to point B.

Capitalism runs on volume. Elon did it wrong.

With the pandemic, many are more hesitant about public transport. These things would sell so fast it would be insane. 


c2DDragon said:


> Step 3 : Use thunders' energy and stop producing toxic batteries while people would use water engines.



This is 8.1 efficiency on the battery, 300% improved over the Tesla. We could probably get that down to 7 with a new aerodynamic design. These batteries won't be a problem for pollution nearly as much as the wasteful efficiency of the Tesla's, Leaf's, Bolt's of the world.

The main problem no one has mentioned yet is the 62 mph cap. For me, the highway I drive on is 55mph speed limit, so this is fine for me, but alas this is def urban cars, and those with commutes that are within the proper mph and distance ranges. Which is still vast majority of humans in United States.


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## R-T-B (Sep 7, 2021)

LordFarquaad said:


> Ya, I'm in middle England right now at the start of September and it's 30c for the next 3 days, does that quantify me thinking that the earth is coming to an end?


No, but the heat bubble we had had 116F...  so that's what, 46C?  And we got a follow up one in the same bloody year.  This area is known for no air conditioning because it's "so mild."  People died.  

Alaska was in the upper 90s.

Denying it is playing stupid.


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## Space Lynx (Sep 7, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> No, but the heat bubble we had had 116F...  so that's what, 46C?  And we got a follow up one.  Alaska was in the upper 90s.
> 
> Denying it is playing stupid.



Please ignore the climate talk people in this thread, really want to focus on the car and ideas around the car. I'm not taking his bait anymore.

On-topic:  I added my hydrogen and hyperloop threads to post one if anyone is interested in exploring those, and how I ultimately accepted those as short term flights of fancy... this one seems plausible though. It would require everyone involved knowing going into it they wouldn't make more than 60k to 70k a year though, from top brass to lowliest person, that's the only way an idea like this would work. We would truly have to believe in something bigger than ourselves, instead of the rat race. I don't need to crash a McLaren F1 like Elon to know the bigger picture.

Elon = terrible efficiency electric cars, luxury niche market masses can't afford, and super advanced tech the average day to day person won't need on their 9 to 5 commute. He thought he would trickle down to the masses, he never did and he never will.

These cars are small. No frills, easier to produce. Less overhead. Volume. It's possible.


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## LordFarquaad (Sep 7, 2021)

Shock horror, Earth is a hostile planet and humans adapt even though the weather patterns seem extreme to us, wonder how we became the dominant species with so many wet blankets....


lynx29 said:


> Please ignore the climate talk people in this thread, really want to focus on the car and ideas around the car. I'm not taking his bait anymore.
> 
> On-topic:  I added my hydrogen and hyperloop threads to post one if anyone is interested in exploring those, and how I ultimately accepted those as short term flights of fancy... this one seems plausible though. It would require everyone involved knowing going into it they wouldn't make more than 60k to 70k a year though, from top brass to lowliest person, that's the only way an idea like this would work. We would truly have to believe in something bigger than ourselves, instead of the rat race. I don't need to crash a McLaren F1 like Elon to know the bigger picture.


You started the climate talk thread    I'm done carry on with your fan fiction


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## claes (Sep 7, 2021)

Although I think climate change is real and will threaten millions of (poor, black/brown) lives, I actually agree with above.

Billionaires output more emissions than the masses ever could. The idea that recycling or driving an EV has any effect on the climate is wishful thinking. If you want to prevent climate change you have to wretch the economy from people whose wealth is based on exploiting the rest of us and engage in a green new deal, which still won’t offset the emissions from the rest of the world. I won’t go further because of politics but, really, mass transportation isn’t the problem.


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## Space Lynx (Sep 7, 2021)

claes said:


> Although I think climate change is real and will threaten millions of (poor, black/brown) lives, I actually agree with above asshole.
> 
> Billionaires output more emissions than the masses ever could. The idea that recycling or driving an EV has any effect on the climate is wishful thinking. If you want to prevent climate change you have to wretch the economy from people whose wealth is based on exploiting the rest of us and engage in a green new deal, which still won’t offset the emissions from the rest of the world. I won’t go further because of politics but, really, mass transportation isn’t the problem.



Alright, I see I made a mistake. I will be changing the title of this thread. Cause at end of day this isn't about climate change, it's about a bunch of poor people like myself sick and tired of the car industry and we want to live our lives without spending our limited money on transportation crap.


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## Fourstaff (Sep 7, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Tesla is selling to a niche market. I'd be selling to the masses. Volume. Also, the idea would be to get a current car company (on the brink of leaving the industry like Honda just left the United States) maybe they could be talked into staying, not abandoning their factories, re-purpose them. Pump these small EV's out to the moon baby. Will outsell Tesla within two months. No one cares about stupid self-drive. We want cheap point A to point B.
> 
> Capitalism runs on volume. Elon did it wrong.


They are still ramping up to produce 1mln cars a year, let alone the 10 mln a year Toyota is making. 1 mln a year is definitely not niche, that is just under what Mazda is selling. Mass manufacturing is not easy, even if there is demand.


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## Space Lynx (Sep 7, 2021)

Fourstaff said:


> They are still ramping up to produce 1mln cars a year, let alone the 10 mln a year Toyota is making. 1 mln a year is definitely not niche, that is just under what Mazda is selling. Mass manufacturing is not easy, even if there is demand.



I know it's not, that's why I made this thread really to get some ideas. I think the Honda leaving USA is a good one... Honda is known for small cars that are reliable, shame none of us know any big wigs in the industry. I seriously think Honda should make a USA comeback with a car like this. They have the resources.

Tesla still has a lot more overhead than this car would though, it would still have profit margins and come out of the factory faster.

these batteries are not economical:  










but that $4700 car is. 8.1 efficiency down to 7 with aerodynamics. I'm telling you there is massive profit to be made from a car like this small little EV.  most companies are just doing it wrong because they THINK they know what the consumers want. yet like I said in first post. go drive around some car lots. SUV's and trucks as far as the eye can see, but all the economical cars are sold out.


just added this to post 1:









						New Volkswagen ID. Life will bring EV to the entry-level in 2025
					

The ID. Life was announced by Volkswagen during the International Motor Show IAA Mobility 2021 held in Munich, where the company also showed a self-driving vehicle made...




					www.techspot.com


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## the54thvoid (Sep 7, 2021)

I'm locking this thread as it's not really going anywhere others haven't already. We have a climate change thread and this crosses into it. Speculating about EV production isn't science either - it's business - so the posts aren't really going to fit with the sub-forum. By all means create an EV thread. PM me @lynx29 if you wish to discuss.


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