# highend soundcard



## department76 (Jan 24, 2008)

i'm looking to put a good card in my rig, now that i have money again after building it. i have looked around a lot and have basically decided that anything below $130 can't get the job done that i want (i.e. b-enspirer, ht omega striker, fatal1ty pro, auzentech x-plosion, m-audio offerings). i am looking for the best possible quality that also supports DTSC and DDL (rules out most x-fi cards). as for DACs, nothing more than a single stereo DAC for the fronts needs to be super high quality as i will use that for headphones. i will game in surround via the DTS-C or DD-L, if i ever do analog surround (doubtful) it'd be some cheap 7.1 for gaming only. EAX is favored, but not 100% necessary. Same with front panel I/O, favored but not a must.

all of that in mind, i'm thinking about the following (all have great D/A conversion, i don't care about A/D as i'll never be recording anything):
Auzentech X-Fi Prelude - 120dB SNR, EAX 5.0, DDL/DTSC, front panel I/O, swappable op-amps (X-Fi)
HT Omega Claro+ - 115dB SNR, EAX 2.0, excellent analog, DDL/DTSC, front panel I/O (CMI8788)
ASUS Xonar D2 - 118dB SNR, EAX 2.0, DTSI/DDL, shielded, NO front panel I/O (AV200)
Creative X-Fi fatal1ty pro or champion?

all of those are ~$180 range, i am currently leaning towards the auzentech.


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 24, 2008)

I want an AuzenTech & I've also been talking with many people about the same thing. So...


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## department76 (Jan 24, 2008)

ya it really seems to take the cake in terms of performacne and features in about every category.  unless i hear some good arguments or see a huge price drop on one of the other cards (doubtful!) then i'll probably get myself a prelude.


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 24, 2008)

Gg


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## imperialreign (Jan 24, 2008)

department76 said:


> ya it really seems to take the cake in terms of performacne and features in about every category.  unless i hear some good arguments or see a huge price drop on one of the other cards (doubtful!) then i'll probably get myself a prelude.



The Auzen Prelude isn't the fastest audio card on the market - but it's audio quality is unmatched.  If you're looking for the absolute best sounding audio card, don't even consider any other offering.

If you're looking for the fastest card with great audio quality, the Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Fatal1ty Pro (116dB SNR) takes that title - although it supports DTSC, it doesn't support DDL.

Another card, that looks to be a great contender (and which I just learned about within the last week or so) is the Razer Barracuda AC-1 Razer AC-1 utilizing a C-Media APU, speced at 117dB SNR, supporting DDL and DTSC.  EAX 2.0 DSP only, though.  From what I've researched on this card, it looks to be a fast contender also, but still not as fast as the Fatal1ty Pro.

Although, if you can still find one somewhere, the Auzentech X-Meridian was the coup d'etat of the audio quality realm.  Ran off a C-Media APU, though, which rules out newer EAX DSPs


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 24, 2008)

What he said!


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## department76 (Jan 24, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> The Auzen Prelude isn't the fastest audio card on the market - but it's audio quality is unmatched.  If you're looking for the absolute best sounding audio card, don't even consider any other offering.
> 
> If you're looking for the fastest card with great audio quality, the Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Fatal1ty Pro (116dB SNR) takes that title - although it supports DTSC, it doesn't support DDL.
> 
> ...



i didn't realize the fatal1ty pro was supposed to be the fastest, but i suppose that doesn't sway me much.  that is a good option to consider though, it's a lot cheaper than the prelude and i didn't realize it had DTSC (only really need DDL or DTSC).  thanks for bringing that up.

i've looked at a couple reviews for the razer barracuda card, which didn't rate it as anything special.  it's plenty capable but really nothing extraordinary.  besides, call me crazy but i kinda want something with solid caps.

i looked into the meridian actually, seems as though it's impossible to find though.

at this point it's either the prelude at ~$180, or the fatal1ty pro at ~$130.  i suppose EAX 5.0 is worth an x-fi based card, i just want DDL/DTSC to send to my HT, and good DAC + opamps for a cushy pair of denon ah-d2000s someday.  kinda sucks the fatal1ty pro doesn't have a front panel, i might consider looking at the champion.

are there any other major differences between the professional and the champion besides the I/O and remote?


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 24, 2008)

If you want best sound for music then the Auzen, but if you want extra FPS in-game w/ good sound, then fatal1ty. Final offer!


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## niko084 (Jan 24, 2008)

Auzen or one of the new Asus cards...

Personally I like the Asus a bit more, but it doesn't offer as much in the way of gaming performance, but the sound quality is superior.


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 24, 2008)

Asus cards? No one even talked about them to me, if I recall correctly?


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## niko084 (Jan 24, 2008)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132001
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132005

These cards are really amazing, they have about anything any user could want and even include lots of power and software for music production work.

The sound quality is top of the line, a dream come true for internal sound cards.
But they cost, and only EAX 2.0 if you use it.


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## btarunr (Jan 24, 2008)

Best sounding sound card on the planet: Auzentech Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1
Best performing sound card on the planet: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Fatal1ty Professional

'nuff said.


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## niko084 (Jan 24, 2008)

btarunr said:


> Best sounding sound card on the planet: Auzentech Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1



That one can be HIGHLY argued...

By the book, the Asus Xonar is a better "sounding card".
To the individual person it may go the other way...

Either way both cards are extremely high quality and the top of the top for internal sound cards.

*Distortion ratings*
Auzentech Prelude .001%
Asus Xonar .0004%
*SNR*
Auzentech Prelude 120db
Asus Xonar 118db

The Asus uses a Burr-Brown D/A converter, this is known as one of the best D/A converters by audiophiles.

These little differences are not something that can really be depicted to the everyday listener, especially on some cheap crappy self amplified computer speakers, where the amplifier in the speakers is probably 1% THD alone.


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## btarunr (Jan 24, 2008)

With dedicated 2 channel Asahi Kasei (AKM Semiconductor) DSPs per two channels, the Xonar holds no sway. Besides, the ASUS chipset used on the Xonar is rebadged C-Media CMI8788. The X-Fi Prelude uses the same DSPs that its dead sister the X-Meridean used.


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 24, 2008)

'Nuff said!


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## niko084 (Jan 24, 2008)

btarunr said:


> With dedicated 2 channel Asahi Kasei (AKM Semiconductor) DSPs per two channels, the Xonar holds no sway. Besides, the ASUS chipset used on the Xonar is rebadged C-Media CMI8788. The X-Fi Prelude uses the same DSPs that its dead sister the X-Meridean used.



Well now we are talking about audio processing, not pure SQ... Now your getting DRM's involved, which is what really brings it into what does the person prefer.

See where I'm going with this?

Some ultra high end $80,000 per pair speakers claim to be the best, but yet the most picky audiophile in the world will pick a set that cost a mere $10,000 per pair because they have a warmer midrange or something to that effect.

Once you get into the top end offered, its really personal taste.

I do wish though that the Prelude would have had a emi shield, its a nice bonus for a $200 sound card, difference may be nill but.


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## btarunr (Jan 24, 2008)

> Specifications
> 
> Key Components
> 
> ...



Its specs, see for yourself. The AKM AK-4396 is the 'Maybach' of high-performance DAC's, it's the best the industry has, so far. The Xonar has weaker OPAMP units, though it comes very close with digital IO where the audio stacks are simply bypassed to the SPDIF while being processed by the system CPU. The X-Fi Prelude uses the expansive power of the CA-20K1 processor.


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## niko084 (Jan 24, 2008)

btarunr said:


> Its specs, see for yourself. The AKM AK-4396 is the 'Maybach' of high-performance DAC's, it's the best the industry has, so far. The Xonar has weaker OPAMP units, though it comes very close with digital IO where the audio stacks are simply bypassed to the SPDIF while being processed by the system CPU. The X-Fi Prelude uses the expansive power of the CA-20K1 processor.



Here is a little proof of the very thing we are talking about-
http://techreport.com/articles.x/13874

They say dead out... If gaming performance is not what you are looking for the Xonar is the card you want.

Take a peak.

Also note* The Preludes slightly higher SNR rating is NOT even a TESTED rating, its a rating based on used components, so in fact its probably lower than what is stated.

I have nothing against Auzentech by any and all means, they make a wonderful product and in turn these cards land hand and hand.

Yes though the Xonar does most definitely eat up a good chunk more cpu power.


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## btarunr (Jan 24, 2008)

niko084 said:


> Well now we are talking about audio processing, not pure SQ... Now your getting DRM's involved, which is what really brings it into what does the person prefer.
> 
> See where I'm going with this?
> 
> ...



LOL, the X-Fi Prelude and the Xonar D2X carry the same price-tags as of 22-01-08, USD 199. . You get more out of the Auzen card in the end. The EMI shield isn't needed for issues pertaining to the extreme heat generated by the components, it's just that the 1337 use these cards on systems with CrossFire / SLI setups where the video-cards cause an EMI mess. In setups such as mine, there are no issues.

This page of the X-Fi Support thread is of good academic importance: http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=40613&page=4


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## niko084 (Jan 24, 2008)

btarunr said:


> LOL, the X-Fi Prelude and the Xonar D2X carry the same price-tags as of 22-01-08, USD 199. . You get more out of the Auzen card in the end. The EMI shield isn't needed for issues pertaining to the extreme heat generated by the components, it's just that the 1337 use these cards on systems with CrossFire / SLI setups where the video-cards cause an EMI mess. In setups such as mine, there are no issues.



As I said the EMI shield is a nill difference.
Not going to argue that the Prelude doesn't have more to offer, especially under XP where it gets full EAX.

But if you are simply looking for sound, then there can be a question. I looked at these two cards for months before deciding myself to get the Xonar, my reasoning is that it will play games *I'm far from worried about a bit of processor usage*, and that it works very well with programs like Cakewalk, Reason, Sonar etc for production, also has midi ports.

This card will replace my EMU 1212M when I re-build my workstation.


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 24, 2008)

I'm confused again, but yet, it's late, so...


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## candle_86 (Jan 24, 2008)

I dunno why sounds are such big things to have, my live still sounds great.


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## niko084 (Jan 24, 2008)

candle_86 said:


> I dunno why sounds are such big things to have, my live still sounds great.



All depends on who you are and how picky your ear is... To some people the stock stereo in a Toyota Tercel is AWESOME. To some people you cannot buy equipment good enough in a retail store.

Personally my Audigy 2zs in this computer that I'm stuck with, I can barely stand, and it is still considered by audiophiles to be one of "Creative's" best SQ cards ever built. 
*Directly by Creative that is*


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## candle_86 (Jan 24, 2008)

well i count myself blessed with bad hearing means i only need soundcards when the current dies, i got a Live because my Soundblaster AWE64 wouldnt work on an Nforce 2


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## btarunr (Jan 24, 2008)

The NVidia Soundstorm that came with the NForce2  (MCP-T southbridge) was superb. The farthest we saw onboard audio come.


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## Darren (Jan 24, 2008)

This is why we need an AV section! 

To my knowledge the fatal1ty pro doesn't support DTS encoding via SPDIF. Only a select few cards do. I'm using the Auzentech X-meridian, couldn't be happier with it. It's hard to find, but ebay is a good place to find it.


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## btarunr (Jan 24, 2008)

Darren said:


> This is why we need an AV section!
> 
> To my knowledge the fatal1ty pro doesn't support DTS encoding via SPDIF. Only a select few cards do. I'm using the Auzentech X-meridian, couldn't be happier with it. It's hard to find, but ebay is a good place to find it.



Oh as if, if this were in the AV section you would magically get far better replies. Please learn to appreciate whatever effort people put in when answering. This is why I categorised the 'best' cards into performance and sounding. Sounding as in output quality, support for surround sound formats such as DTS, Dolby, etc. and Performance as in audio performance that affects the system performance on the whole, while gaming, etc.

Gotta admit though, the X-Meridian was the best sound card in terms of output quality. If it was still in production, to me it would have been the best sounding card.


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## jammy86 (Jan 24, 2008)

Ram the fatality. The Prelude is delightful! I might send Auzen another £20, its worth it.

JAmes.


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## department76 (Jan 24, 2008)

i really appreciate the discussion, it has been very insightful.  i'd agree that there is no clear choice between the prelude and xonar.  i'd hate to make the choice based on the front panel I/O header, which the xonar lacks?  i would take the pci-e version xonar in a heartbeat just due to the interface, but sadly my mobo has it's sole 1x slot directly beneath the primary 16x slot, which is being consumed by my 3870s dual slot cooler.  looks like im stuck with 32bit pci, i wouldnt want my sound right beneath my video even if the slot was free :-/

well i was set on the prelude, but now i'm having second thoughts.  damn xonar!


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## candle_86 (Jan 24, 2008)

btarunr said:


> The NVidia Soundstorm that came with the NForce2  (MCP-T southbridge) was superb. The farthest we saw onboard audio come.



yea but you needed it on your boards, my cheap chaintech didnt


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## department76 (Jan 24, 2008)

candle_86 said:


> yea but you needed it on your boards, my cheap chaintech didnt



funny the nforce2 came up, i had it in my old asus board in my athlon xp build.  that had DDL, and that was what, four or five years ago?  i don't understand why it isn't almost standard for onboard to have that nowadays.


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## imperialreign (Jan 24, 2008)

department76 said:


> i didn't realize the fatal1ty pro was supposed to be the fastest, but i suppose that doesn't sway me much.  that is a good option to consider though, it's a lot cheaper than the prelude and i didn't realize it had DTSC (only really need DDL or DTSC).  thanks for bringing that up.
> 
> i've looked at a couple reviews for the razer barracuda card, which didn't rate it as anything special.  it's plenty capable but really nothing extraordinary.  besides, call me crazy but i kinda want something with solid caps.
> 
> ...



there are no soundcard differences between the X-Fi Fatal1ty Champion and the X-Fi Elite Pro.  The Elite uses the remote I/O console, the Champion uses the 5.25" bay front panel console.  The front panel connection can be modded to accept the pins from a standard AC97/Azalia connector, but it requires some work, and one must purchase a connector that will fit the sound card plug.  Some of the X-Fi's already have the 10-pin AC97 pinout connection, but I don't think the newer Fatal1ty's do yet . . .

you won't find much in the way of solid caps on the Fatal1ty card, though, as Creative still uses standard style ones.  Although, if you're good with PCB soldering, all the components on the Fatal1ty can be swapped out for better quality components, which, to the best of my knowledge, brings the card closer to the Auzen Prelude sound quality range - I still haven't done this mod yet myself, as I've just been lazy the last couple of months (and it's hard to solder properly with a splint finger ).

The Fatal1ty is rumored to be capable of DDL, but we haven't seen a driver that supports that feature yet


the reason you're having such a hard time finding an Auzen X-Meridian is due to the fact that they were discontinued last June.  You might find an online shop that still has one or two, but you'll prob only find them on ebay at this point.


Anyhow, just a brief summary of the 4 cards that have been discussed, without all the jargon - for the general rule of thumb - the best sounding high-end cards use the C-Media APU; while the fastest use the X-Fi APU.

Except when it comes to the Auzen Prelude - Auzentech went and completely designed a PCB and component layout with the architecture of the X-Fi APU in mind, for the best sound quality possible.  But, although it stouts a Creative APU, is the reason why the card isn't considered to be "fastest".

Creative's card, though, was designed with performance in mind (targeted at the gamer), but sacrifices some sound quality to achieve that goal.

The Razer card is fast, also, but is hampered by an APU that isn't designed for sheer audio performance - but it makes up for that fact by providing the same, or _very slightly _better sound quality than the Fatal1ty - so slight, in fact, I don't think any of us could ever hear the difference.

The Asus card is solid (as are all their hardware), and although it offers much better sound quality over the Fatal1ty, it falls just short of the Prelude - again, I doubt any of us would actually "hear" the difference between the Prelude and the Xonar.  But, utilizing the C-Media APU, it falls very short in the performance category when compared to the Prelude's X-Fi APU.


Oh, and I'm sure you already understand this, but for anyone else browsing this thread - a high-end sound card doesn't mean squat when coupled with a cheap, poor quality set of speakers!


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 24, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> Oh, and I'm sure you already understand this, but for anyone else browsing this thread - a high-end sound card doesn't mean squat when coupled with a cheap, poor quality set of speakers!



YES!


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## mdashoot (Jan 25, 2008)

I have the HT Omega Claro Plus and it's awesome, Im not a gamer so I didnt need any of the fancy stuff that most gamers look for in a card, but this card with my Logitech Z-5500's will blow my home stereo away, It produces very clear sound, I was even listening to a CD one day and heard vocals that I never heard before. But thats just my opinion.


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 25, 2008)

Which everyone is entitled to. Thank you for it.


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## mdashoot (Jan 25, 2008)

Franklinwallbrown said:


> Which everyone is entitled to. Thank you for it.



your welcome


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## btarunr (Jan 25, 2008)

department76 said:


> funny the nforce2 came up, i had it in my old asus board in my athlon xp build.  that had DDL, and that was what, four or five years ago?  i don't understand why it isn't almost standard for onboard to have that nowadays.



That's because it was insanely expensive to produce at that time and that NVidia was shifting its financial resources to the development of the NForce platform for the AMD K8.


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## btarunr (Jan 25, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> there are no soundcard differences between the X-Fi Fatal1ty Champion and the X-Fi Elite Pro.



There are, the Elite Pro has additional ASIO circuitry (which also makes the XG Fatal1ty Pro a faster card) Compare the PCB layouts using these eggpics:

Xtreme Gamer Fatal1ty Pro:






Elite Pro:





Another major difference is that the Elite Pro infact uses a similar DAC arrangement to the Auzen X-Meridian (2ch DAC/ 2channels) while the XG Fatal1ty Pro uses a unified ultra-low latency 10-channel DAC from Cirrus Logic. The Elite Pro uses AKM / Wolfson (which the XG uses a ADC of) The DAC arrangement and latency issues is what causes the Fatal1ty Pro to have better gaming performance than the Elite Pro.

Oh, the CMI8788 is not an audio-'processor' as such, it's just an audio chipset.


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## imperialreign (Jan 25, 2008)

btarunr said:


> There are, the Elite Pro has additional ASIO circuitry (which also makes the XG Fatal1ty Pro a faster card) Compare the PCB layouts using these eggpics:
> 
> . . . .
> 
> ...


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## department76 (Jan 25, 2008)

OK, well discussion is steering me all over the place.  i've decided to ex the xonar, due to zero front panel solution and limited gaming support.

my current two choices, both x-fi based (sorry C-Media, the CMI8788 is looking like a budget alternative):
auzen prelude - front panel I/O header, superior SNR and DACs, solid caps, EAX 5
fatal1ty champion - complete drive bay I/O solution, not as good but still great SNR and DACs, EAX 5

the only problem is, i really kinda do want my DDL/DTSC.  kinda leaves it to the prelude :-/  my biggest gripe is that i don't want to have to choose between DDL/DTSC and EAX 5.0 HD!!!!


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## imperialreign (Jan 25, 2008)

Sorry, we haven't been trying to confuse you on purpose - but in-depth soundcard discussions don't crop up too often around here!! 

Anyhow, go with the Prelude, then.  You'll more than enjoy it, and it's features - especially if you partake of any HD content.  You'll still be happy with how it sounds in-game, trust me on that


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## btarunr (Jan 25, 2008)

Wait a minute. Doesn't the Fatal1ty champion have software decode of DTS Neo6 with the bundled PowerDVD? http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=208&product=16559&nav=2

The box of my Xtreme Gamers shows the company logos of both DTS and Dolby Digital EX (back of the box) and that the decode is supported by the card when used with PowerDVD??

Says the box:
"_Enjoy the ultimate PC movie experience with the latest cinematic technologies_

The Sound Blaster X-Fi sound card delivers THX certified surround wound and includes Cyberlink's PowerDVD software with DTS and Dolby Digital-EX decoding via free download for an unbeatable DVD movie watching experience. (Internet connection is required)"


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## imperialreign (Jan 25, 2008)

btarunr said:


> Wait a minute. Doesn't the Fatal1ty champion have software decode of DTS Neo6 with the bundled PowerDVD? http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=208&product=16559&nav=2
> 
> The box of my Xtreme Gamers shows the company logos of both DTS and Dolby Digital EX (back of the box) and that the decode is supported by the card when used with PowerDVD??
> 
> ...



To the best of my knowledge, the XGFP is DTSC capable, and it comes with the drivers for both the DTSC and DEX - but, we have yet to see any drivers for DDL support (although, I believe the card is supposed to be capable of it).  Although, due to limitations, the card downsamples 7.1 to 5.1; 7.1 is not fully supported in Dolby output modes.

The Cyberlink PowerDVD software that's bundled with the XGFP is "cripple-ware," giving you very basic access to any functionality.  You've got to shell out the cash for the registration to fully unlock the software - rather pointless as the card can't run dolby in a true 7.1 environment.


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 25, 2008)

Here! Here!


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## department76 (Jan 25, 2008)

DTS-ES and DD-EX are both DECODING, DDL and DTSC are both ENCODING features which is competely different.  and yes to my knowledge, both only encode to 5.1, which is ok acceptable by me because my HT setup is only 6.1 (not 7.1) anyways. i only want that feature for games and upmixing music anyways (assuming it as opposed to PLIIx/Neo:6).

i do have plenty oh HD material btw   i have a good collection of DVD-A including DTS-ES cds that are 7 channel (6.1) 48khz, and a few DTS 96/24 and Dolby 2.0 disks as well.  i look forward very much to listening to those with headphones over either card, i expect their analog streams to be a bit better (i haven't confirmed this, however) than my denon AVRs analog paths.

if someone can confrim 100% that the fatal1ty champion does DTS-Connect/Interactive, then i'll get the champion over the prelude.  otherwise, it's the prelude.


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 25, 2008)

Well, I...uh...*puts head down*...can't.


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## btarunr (Jan 25, 2008)

department76 said:


> DTS-ES and DD-EX are both DECODING, DDL and DTSC are both ENCODING features which is competely different.  and yes to my knowledge, both only encode to 5.1, which is ok acceptable by me because my HT setup is only 6.1 (not 7.1) anyways. i only want that feature for games and upmixing music anyways (assuming it as opposed to PLIIx/Neo:6).
> 
> i do have plenty oh HD material btw   i have a good collection of DVD-A including DTS cds that are 7 channel (6.1) 48khz, and a few DTS 96/24 disks as well.  i look forward very much to listening to those with headphones over either card, i expect their analog streams to be a bit better (i haven't confirmed this, however) than my denon AVRs analog paths.
> 
> if someone can confrim 100% that the fatal1ty champion does DTS-Connect/Interactive, then i'll get the champion over the prelude.  otherwise, it's the prelude.



excuse me, the X-Fi prelude uses drivers supplied by Creative. DTS Interactive and DTS NeoPC  feature-sets are not yet part of the package and will be included as a free driver update which implies that the March 2008 driver update for the X-Fi from Creative will feature these updates as well. Auzen cannot include a software feature-set of its own that's exclusive to the X-Fi Prelude as it owes the design patent and driver-support/updates to Creative.


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 25, 2008)

Oh, well, Creative just has a big head now don't they?


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## btarunr (Jan 25, 2008)

they invented the X-Fi. They have the biggest head.


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 25, 2008)

Yeah, uh, well, their head...umm...is stinky!


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## Darren (Jan 25, 2008)

btarunr said:


> excuse me, the X-Fi prelude uses drivers supplied by Creative. DTS Interactive and DTS NeoPC  feature-sets are not yet part of the package and will be included as a free driver update which implies that the March 2008 driver update for the X-Fi from Creative will feature these updates as well. Auzen cannot include a software feature-set of its own that's exclusive to the X-Fi Prelude as it owes the design patent and driver-support/updates to Creative.



Only the Auzentech Preludes will get the DDL/DTS update, the other X-Fi cards will not. It was in the terms and conditions of Auzentech implemeting a EAX 5.0 and Dolby ready card with Creatives permission, in return Auzentech had to remove the X-Meridian from the market.


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## Darren (Jan 25, 2008)

btarunr said:


> Wait a minute. Doesn't the Fatal1ty champion have software decode of DTS Neo6 with the bundled PowerDVD? http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=208&product=16559&nav=2
> 
> The box of my Xtreme Gamers shows the company logos of both DTS and Dolby Digital EX (back of the box) and that the decode is supported by the card when used with PowerDVD??
> 
> ...




What Creative don't tell you is that encoding is not possible, it has never been possible on any creative card to my knowledge apart from their new Prelude with Auzentech's help. Encoding is when the sound signals algorithm are reproduce DTS/Dolby bitstreams ready for your reciever to decode. 

Decoding and encoding are completely different kettles of fish. Creative have always lied to their customers making them think they are getting true 5.1 by putting Dolby Digital logo's on their boxes. The truth is using PowerDVD or any other commercial software such WinDVD one can achieve decoding of Dolby or DTS with a cheap £7 soundcard, aslong as the soundscard has SPDIF and the material in which you are playing is a genuine DVD pre-encoded in 5.1 and it will pass through to the reciever.


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## TechnicalFreak (Jan 25, 2008)

If there is anyone here who makes music (except me) , then I can recommend the Apogee Symphony sound card. 32Channels , digital I/O 24bit/192Khz. It is also possible to have 3 cards in the same system (connected to each other somehow) and get a total of 96Channels.


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## candle_86 (Jan 25, 2008)

btarunr said:


> That's because it was insanely expensive to produce at that time and that NVidia was shifting its financial resources to the development of the NForce platform for the AMD K8.



That and Soundstorm did have problems its self, a few boards had a minor noise.


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## department76 (Jan 25, 2008)

Darren said:


> Only the Auzentech Preludes will get the DDL/DTS update, the other X-Fi cards will not. It was in the terms and conditions of Auzentech implemeting a EAX 5.0 and Dolby ready card with Creatives permission, in return Auzentech had to remove the X-Meridian from the market.



very interesting.  

i know that auzentech already has a DDL driver out, i wouldn't mind waiting a couple months to switch over to DTSC.  no matter which way i try to slice it, it seems that the prelude is the only card that has everything that i want.  that's very shocking and disappointing that creative cards won't encode!

alright, it's about decided.  right now i'm picturing a prelude, then eventually buying the I/O bay for X-Fi for it


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## imperialreign (Jan 25, 2008)

Darren said:


> Only the Auzentech Preludes will get the DDL/DTS update, the other X-Fi cards will not. It was in the terms and conditions of Auzentech implemeting a EAX 5.0 and Dolby ready card with Creatives permission, in return Auzentech had to remove the X-Meridian from the market.



it wouldn't stop creative from extending support, though - they are the nVidia of the audio realm.  If they do decide to go that route, the high end card will probably be the only ones to recieve those drivers - as I've said, the high end cards are capable of it, but there is currently no driver support.  If you take a look at their product listings on Creative's site - only the XGFP, Fatal1ty Champion, and Elite Pro models are advertised as Dolby decoding capable - the Xtreme Gamer and Xtreme Audio are advertised as decoding capable _with_ software.




> What Creative don't tell you is that encoding is not possible, it has never been possible on any creative card to my knowledge apart from their new Prelude with Auzentech's help. Encoding is when the sound signals algorithm are reproduce DTS/Dolby bitstreams ready for your reciever to decode.
> 
> Decoding and encoding are completely different kettles of fish. Creative have always lied to their customers making them think they are getting true 5.1 by putting Dolby Digital logo's on their boxes. The truth is using PowerDVD or any other commercial software such WinDVD one can achieve decoding of Dolby or DTS with a cheap £7 soundcard, aslong as the soundscard has SPDIF and the material in which you are playing is a genuine DVD pre-encoded in 5.1 and it will pass through to the reciever.



then again, Creative have never said that Dolby encoding _was_ possible, either, and have been quite frank about the downsampled 7.1 -> 5.1, even with their flagship card.  Lest we forget, the X-Fi was originally designed more towards gaming and audio file playback, moreso than for any HD capability.

Not trying to entirelly defend the Creative lineup, as anyone looking for a card more for DVD viewing, true multi-channle playback, etc, I'd recommend they go with the Prelude instead.


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## Darren (Jan 26, 2008)

imperialreign, X-Fi came out three years ago, August 2005 according to Wikipedia. They have had plenty of time to extend their support and implement encoding capabilities. It's not going to happen especially now it would ruin sales for their "Prelude".


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## imperialreign (Jan 26, 2008)

Darren said:


> imperialreign, X-Fi came out three years ago, August 2005 according to Wikipedia. They have had plenty of time to extend their support and implement encoding capabilities. It's not going to happen especially now it would ruine sales for their "Prelude".



very true, and, my personal opinion here (not stouting any facts like I was earlier) - I don't see Creative offering support anytime soon, either - granted, it'd be nice, though.  Except for a few models, they cater to the low-end crowd; partly why there is such a massive jump in price between the XGFP and their lower models.

Unless consumers demanded it, I don't think it'll ever happen - Creative would have to start losing a vast amount of market share, and with their low end models in every hardware store across the nation, that won't ever happen, either.

TBH, though, I would really like to be able to see some other audio cards on a shelf next to Creative's.  Even with CompUSA being the best source for hardware, they never even carried any of Auzen's cards.


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## ChillyMyst (Jan 26, 2008)

sait this b4 and i will say it again, creative dosnt give a shit about the costmer, they care about 1 thing, making as much off their name as possable, their driver supports horrible they dont test things properly, they dennie or ignore problems people report, i wont own another creative product.

cmedia chips are the only real alternitive for most users, the via envy chipsets drivers for games suck(good for videos and such tho...)

people just need to give up on creative acctualy ever getting their act togather and realise there are other better options.

and it is happening slowly, people are getting sick of stuff like the pci-e x-fi cards whos drivers suck total ass, slowly but surely people are moving to cards that offer better support and better useable fetures


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## btarunr (Jan 26, 2008)

ChillyMyst said:


> sait this b4 and i will say it again, creative dosnt give a shit about the costmer, they care about 1 thing, making as much off their name as possable, their driver supports horrible they dont test things properly, they dennie or ignore problems people report, i wont own another creative product.



C-Media does give a shit, doesn't it?  just that you should be a fluent Chinese speaker to even say Hi to them, start off with Yihao. Problem is that Sound Blaster cards come with so many features that people get confused with them and contact Creative for things as trivial as "How do I attach a microphone", "How to change to Game mode", etc. 



ChillyMyst said:


> cmedia chips are the only real alternitive for most users, the via envy chipsets drivers for games suck(good for videos and such tho...)



wrong. C-Media is no better than VIA Envy or some ADI chips. They're all software driven chips that make the system CPU to do their jobs, with no environmental effects than the dated EAX 2.0. The real Creative killer was the NVidia Soundstorm but that was cannibalised.



ChillyMyst said:


> people just need to give up on creative acctualy ever getting their act togather and realise there are other better options.



Okay, enlightened soul, lets say I have $80 for a sound-card for gaming, music, give me one sound card that has a significant impact on my overall system performance and improved gaming and music audio. I'd say Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Gamer, your suggestion?



ChillyMyst said:


> and it is happening slowly, people are getting sick of stuff like the pci-e x-fi cards whos drivers suck total ass, slowly but surely people are moving to cards that offer better support and better useable fetures



The PCI-E X-Fi card has no audio processor. Besides please don't base your contentions on release drivers, base them on the current ones that people aren't having problems with. The problem with most people is that they splash mud on Creative when it releases a buggy driver and never take back their words when Creative fixes them. Absolutely no sound-card maker (barring Auzentech) have the brains of making solutions like Creative do. 

PS. Should you have trouble with Creative Support, just click on the black box in my signature, to our support syndicate, we'll be more than glad to help you


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## ChillyMyst (Jan 26, 2008)

bullshit, check around, creatives current drivers are full of buggs, read their forums, ask around on here and other places, plenty of people have things like.
100% cpu use on some x-fi models
mode change not working
drivers failing to start/work(rare these days but it still happens!!) 


as to cmedia, your a MORON, i have personaly requested updates from their FORUMS that are in ENGLISH and had their programer post an update within 2 days, cmedia also has updated drivers for chips as old as the 8738, a card as old as the sblive, creative dosnt even have proper working drivers for xp x64 for the SB live 5.1 cards....yet cmedia updated their 8738 drivers for 2000,xp,xp64,vista(all versions)  gee i think that shows they do care about costmers not just selling their latist and greatist chipset with the go faster stripes and extreamly bloated software pack.

http://www.cmedia.com.tw/forums/viewforum.php?f=6&sid=b2fc31b266e374cabf6c9b8c2ed343d2

just an example, check around, cmedia has updated drivers for their oldist chips be it ac97 or full on codecs.

and i hate to mention this but eax is crap, the ONLY reasion the cmedia cards dont have current EAX support is NOTHING to do with hardware, its creative not wanting to allow another company to support their only selling point, even if that selling point is based on a lie, once you hit a certen number of voices the human brain cant prosess any more and it just becomes noise, eax3/4/5 are past that limmit.

also not some current games dont even support eax above 2 because the vast majority of gamers have onboard sound or cards that arent by creative.

as to your 80$ question.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829271001
cmedia 8770 based "HT OMEGA STRIKER 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail" 

check the specs of the 8770 vs the x-fi for specs and abilitys, hate to tell ya this but dispite lack of an APU it still gives better sound with effectivly no perf impact, compared against the x-fi in reviews i have seen there effectivly no diffrance, the x-fi can do some stuff in hardware that the cmi cards do with cpu, but the cmi cards drivers are FAR lighter on the system, they are SMALL they work excelently, the creative drivers are what now 50mb or more?

lets do a dirrect comparison here 

cmi 8788 driver is 5.3mb for the FULL DRIVER including the full xear suit(eq and such)

creative x-fi xgamer edition driver is 43.53 MB thats the basic driver mind you......

so  5.3mb
vs 43.53 MB

i will look up the charts somebody posted on here comparing the x-fi specs to the 8770 and such from cmi(auzentech cards) it was quite a slap in the face to x-fi when it came to quility and fetures.......specly since AFIK they still dont got vista drivers 100% for the x-fi and hardware acceleration........


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## ChillyMyst (Jan 26, 2008)

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=243469&postcount=53



AshenSugar said:


> you can get ddl/dts playback support out of those cheap cards, but its not real time encoding its playback of PRE-RECORDED STREAMS so if you attempt to force it to real time encode a non ddl/dts sorce on the fly it cant/wont.
> 
> oh and your great "openal support"
> 
> ...



knew i saw it someplace quite a while back(prof lurker here!!!)



















challenging somebody whos life basickly is sitting at the computer reading about computer stuff when hes not working/building/repaing computers is a bad idea just so you know, i think this pretty much shows that your "x-fi is supperior in every way" like of BS is just that BS, creative has the edge in name recognition thats about it.

oh please take not of one other thing, if you do a bit of in depth research you will find that some game devs acctualy prefer dealing with software rendering for their game audio because they can do things in software that are hard to do in hardware on creative cards.

well back to forum hoping 

http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board?board.id=soundblaster

if there are no problems with the x-fi and its drivers are great whats this about, i count a good number of multi page threds in there about stuff like
"X-Fi XtremeMusic - High Pitched Noise"
"Follow-up: Crackle/Pop issues"
and my favorite
"Petition to demand Creative to release new XP driver for X-Fi soundcard."

haha, probbly wont happen, creatives already moved on to a new gen of cards so the x-fi are probbly only gonna get 1/4 assed updates(1/4 because i feel their update efforts at best are 1/2 assed)


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 26, 2008)

LOLz...


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## btarunr (Jan 26, 2008)

Let me take this piece by piece:



ChillyMyst said:


> bullshit, check around, creatives current drivers are full of buggs, read their forums, ask around on here and other places, plenty of people have things like.
> 100% cpu use on some x-fi models
> mode change not working
> drivers failing to start/work(rare these days but it still happens!!)



How come I've come across such issues with  neiher my Xtreme Gamer nor X-Fi Prelude 7.1 ?  so haven't the many TPU users with X-Fi cards? Here's the whole thing: People don't know how to use the cards in accordance to the electronic documentation that ship with the cards, change the modes when an audio application is active and reserved hardware channels and you're bound for the card locking up because when in entertainment mode, the card is no better than any other card, it uses the CPU for audio sampling and the CA20K1 is inert. When you switch to the Game mode, the audio stacks are re-routed to the CA20K1 and if there's an active audio application that has reserved two hardware sound channels irrespective of it playing audio, you're bound for a crash, which is why there's a clear mention to quit all audio applications when switching modes. 100% CPU usage has 1000000 reasons behind it, no sound card can load the CPU 100% unless it's a 80486 we're talking about. the CPU usage could be because of other processes and while mode switch, the CPU has to perform many operations to re-route the audio data-path at a hardware level.




ChillyMyst said:


> as to cmedia, your a MORON, i have personaly requested updates from their FORUMS that are in ENGLISH and had their programer post an update within 2 days, cmedia also has updated drivers for chips as old as the 8738, a card as old as the sblive, creative dosnt even have proper working drivers for xp x64 for the SB live 5.1 cards....yet cmedia updated their 8738 drivers for 2000,xp,xp64,vista(all versions)  gee i think that shows they do care about costmers not just selling their latist and greatist chipset with the go faster stripes and extreamly bloated software pack.
> 
> http://www.cmedia.com.tw/forums/viewforum.php?f=6&sid=b2fc31b266e374cabf6c9b8c2ed343d2
> 
> just an example, check around, cmedia has updated drivers for their oldist chips be it ac97 or full on codecs.



I hope you already know that every old sound card for which you don't find a driver on Creative's website has a reason for it, that the Windows OS from Windows 2000 upwards ships with the latest stable drivers for it, just that you don't get the fancy applications and that's justified, My 1996 SB Ensoniq PCI card has a superb driver that Windows XP came with that made it sound better than with those older drivers. The driver provider is Creative.  So oldest drivers being avaiable on C-Media's website actually goes on to show C-Media failed in sharing their latest drivers with Microsoft to include in their OS releases, which Creative did. The oldest Sound Blaster PCI can still work brilliantly on any Windows XP machine but even Windows XP SP2 doesn't come with bundled drivers for the CMI8738. 




ChillyMyst said:


> and i hate to mention this but eax is crap, the ONLY reasion the cmedia cards dont have current EAX support is NOTHING to do with hardware, its creative not wanting to allow another company to support their only selling point, even if that selling point is based on a lie, once you hit a certen number of voices the human brain cant prosess any more and it just becomes noise, eax3/4/5 are past that limmit.



skunkshit. Did you ever play Doom 3 with EAX 4.0 HD on? Play it and do yourself a big favour why are so many games coming with HW sampling of audio, reverb effects? You have to experience it and then speak and not simply call something crap just because you don't have it (I used a X-Meridean for a month, my cousins on his machine and I liked it for its components more than the CMI 8788). 



ChillyMyst said:


> also not some current games dont even support eax above 2 because the vast majority of gamers have onboard sound or cards that arent by creative.



Valve Source engine does EAX 3.0, Unreal Engine 3 does EAX 5.0 HD, CryEngine 2 does EAX 3.0, id Doom 3 engine derived games do EAX 4.0 HD under OpenAL. Pretty much every good current game title uses either of the above engines. If you ask me, EAX 4 ~ 5 HD (24-bit, 192 KHz sample rate, 128 hardware and 65536 software voices) is a big loss if I don't choose a sound-card with the X-Fi processor. If there aren't sufficient hardware voice channels, you're bound for choppy, scratchy audio.



ChillyMyst said:


> as to your 80$ question.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829271001
> cmedia 8770 based "HT OMEGA STRIKER 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail"



Puhleez, did you even read when I said "overall system performance"? The X-Fi cards really do give performance boost when gaming, and for what I get for $80 from a Xtreme Gamer is more than what I get from a Striker, sure it comes with the DTS/DD formats et al but the pros of the X-Fi far outrun that from a Striker. Hardware accelerated audio, better music with the Crystalizer, etc. 



ChillyMyst said:


> check the specs of the 8770 vs the x-fi for specs and abilitys, hate to tell ya this but dispite lack of an APU it still gives better sound with effectivly no perf impact, compared against the x-fi in reviews i have seen there effectivly no diffrance, the x-fi can do some stuff in hardware that the cmi cards do with cpu, but the cmi cards drivers are FAR lighter on the system, they are SMALL they work excelently, the creative drivers are what now 50mb or more?
> 
> lets do a dirrect comparison here
> 
> ...



Congratulations, you lose. Forget the CMI 8770, let's take on CMI 8788 instead, with all the applications you claim don't do big deal with X-Fi:









 Continue reading this article: http://www.guru3d.com/article/sound/456/9 

Woh oh, you have a problem with a 43.53 MB driver  are you running your system off a pen-drive? Don't NVidia Foreware also come around 30~42 MB? For all the OpenAL ICD, the configuration modules, the software libraries for the countless features, 44 MB is more than justified.


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## btarunr (Jan 26, 2008)

Okay your charts mean something, aren't they picked off from Auzentech's website? I remember seeing them on Auzen's website so you can prettymuch guess its authenticity as those charts were on Auzen's website way before they made the X-Fi Prelude. One of my earliest posts show my contention, the Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Professional is the best performing card for gaming and the Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1 for everything else you're rallying around like DTS/DD/SHIT whatever, but it's the best sounding card based on my experience, end of it the X-Fi wins, made my Creative or Auzen.


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 26, 2008)

It's all greek to me baby!


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## btarunr (Jan 26, 2008)

Whatever, I'm out of this thread. Let people choose what pleases them that what benefits them.


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## Darren (Jan 26, 2008)

edit: double post


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 26, 2008)

Yeah, but if all you can go on is others opinions....


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## Darren (Jan 26, 2008)

btarunr said:


> Whatever, I'm out of this thread. Let people choose what pleases them that what benefits them.



Well at the end of the day it always comes down to personal choice, what you like and want isn't what everybody else likes and wants and you cant force that.

Before you head off you made a reference earlier to Guru3D's review. I actually went back and looked at an old  "Auzentech X-Meridian" review and read the conclusion.


*Conclusion : Guru3D's Auzentech X-Meridian review*



*I liked the X-Meridian the best while gaming.*  The X-Fi has *only one *advantage over the X-Meridian and that is during BF2142: it makes the gun sound louder than anything else in the game.  That to me is more realistic, because guns are loud.  But other than that, *EAX in general is too heavy handed*.  I like the idea of environmental modeling of sound, it is a vital immersive effect,* but EAX HD still doesn't fool me into thinking I'm there in that environment.*  Perhaps it is a developer care and consideration issue.

The X-Meridian’s *strongest* point is its *amazing analog output. *It measured about the* same *as Creative’s X-Fi with RMAA 5.5, and yet *sounded so much more detailed. *

However, if you want something that *sounds better *than an X-Fi, then go grab one with *two fists *and don't let go until it's inside your computer

Full review from btarunr's precious Guru3D -> http://www.guru3d.com/article/sound/399/13/


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 26, 2008)

So, you would assume the new Auzentech would also be good.


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## Darren (Jan 26, 2008)

Read the review, and make up your own mind.


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## btarunr (Jan 26, 2008)

I don't hate a X-Meridean, in fact if Auzen hadn't stopped its production, I would have bought it instead of a X-Fi Prelude, I'm a big fan of its Asahi Kasei DACs and replaceable OPAMPS, let me be honest. The X-Merridean was an equally expensive card but that is the best sounding card for digital media consumption even today and I wouldn't have minded calling it the best, just that it's no more in production.


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 26, 2008)

Okay, IDK, so, I'll just get the new AuzenTech since the old one is discontinued.


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## imperialreign (Jan 26, 2008)

*THIS THREAD *=        :shadedshu


Alright - as to the whole driver support deal with Creative, etc - Creative's tech support might not be the greatest, but they've had to resort to the idiot-proof customer support that many other large companies have.  Meaning, you ask them a question anf they'll respond asking you to make sure your drivers are up to date, that you installe dthat card correctly, etc - granted, people like us will become irritated by that, but we can't fault Creative for the rest of the tech-illiterate world.

Besides, Creative will also respond to direct email inquiries within a day or two, also.

X-Fi Vista drivers = :shadedshu  *WHAT HARDWARE COMPANY HAS YET TO RELEASE 100% STABLE VISTA DRIVERS?!!!!* - you can't fault Creative for this, as the Vista OS completely changes up how operations are handled.  At least Creative has taken the time, along with writing Vista drivers, to assemble a set of drivers that give you some amount of hardware acceleration back, the ALchemy drivers.  Has any other audio company?  No . . . but then again, everyone else has been content with only having EAX 2.0 support.

EAX = really boils down to personal taste.  Some people love it, some hate it.  There's also a big dependancy on the game authors and how they chose to make use of the EAX DSPs.  There are many great games out there that sound like absolute butt with EAX enabled due to poor implimentation on the game authors part.




ChillyMyst said:


> http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=243469&postcount=53
> 
> 
> 
> ...





So . . . . you're using a chart that compares the discontinued Auzentach cards (very high end) to Creative's low-end cards?!!    Where does that makes sense?

Plus, you're citing a thread that's dated about a year ago, before Creative's driver release last year (late Feb, early Mar, IIRC).  Citing old hardware issues as the basis for an argument that have since been taken care of is poor practice, and very misleading to people that are here trying to learn something.


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 26, 2008)

Okay, now I'm confused again!


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## Darren (Jan 26, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> So . . . . you're using a chart that compares the discontinued Auzentach cards (very high end) to Creative's low-end cards?!!    Where does that makes sense?



What are you talking about, the X-Fi Xtreme Music was pretty highend a year and a half ago when that chart was compiled. To be frank apart from the Prelude no other Creative card can not rival Auzentech on specification wise and if you think otherwise find me some evidence.


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 26, 2008)

Oh, Boi!


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## monte84 (Jan 26, 2008)

Darren said:


> Only the Auzentech Preludes will get the DDL/DTS update, the other X-Fi cards will not. It was in the terms and conditions of Auzentech implemeting a EAX 5.0 and Dolby ready card with Creatives permission, in return Auzentech had to remove the X-Meridian from the market.



Auzentech sites suggest that the X-Meridian was canelled due to low quantities of the C-Media  Oxygen-HD chip that it used. Not saying creative didnt have something to do about it, then tend to do things like that. But Auzentech is still selling the X-Plosion on thier website....I do love auzentech cards.


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## imperialreign (Jan 26, 2008)

Darren said:


> What are you talking about, the X-Fi Xtreme Music was pretty highend a year and a half ago when that chart was compiled. To be frank apart from the Prelude no other Creative card can not rival Auzentech on specification wise and if you think otherwise find me some evidence.



<sigh>

The _*Prelude*_ is an Auzentech in every shape, form and design.  The only reason they call it an "X-Fi Prelude" is because it makes use of a Creative X-Fi APU.  Auzen specifically designed the PCB layout around the APU for superior sound quality, and chose the best components possible for this purpose too.

Compared to the other card's that even Auzen is currently offering, the Prelude is the best in their lineup.


Anyhow - Creative's Xtreme Music card was a mid-range card.  It was priced at $100 ($20 more than the low end Xtreme Gamer and Xtreme Audio), but still fell short on specs when compared to Creative's high-end cards (the Fatal1ty Pro and the Elite Pro).  Comparing the XM card to Auzen's older offerings is still comparing a mid-range to high-end cards - it would be like comparing an ATI HD2400 to an nVidia 8800 GT; it just doesn't make sense.

The two Audigy cards listed in those charts were considered high-end _Audigy_ cards, but, they were already a generation old at the time, and were designed and released prior to Auzen's cards on that chart - meaning that your comparing aging components to cutting edge technology.


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 26, 2008)

Everyone told me to go AuzenTech for HD movies! Ah!


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## Darren (Jan 26, 2008)

Well if the Fatal1ty Pro and the Elite Pro were Creatives high end, why not compare the Auzentech X-Plosion to the Fatal1ty Pro and the Elite Pro. Auzentech will still rival Creative in that domain to I'm sure.

Edit: this all comes down to personal choice, its too subjective to say one is better than the other, either we talk about a specific area or we don't talk about it at all.


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 26, 2008)

I knowz, I knowz!


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## ChillyMyst (Jan 26, 2008)

at the time they where in the same market, and its 100% about what the HARDWARE can do, not something you can fake or scew with madeup bullshit.

and its not just to compare the x-med, this goes for ANY CARD USING THAT CHIP they all use the same drivers/driver base, this includes the razor shound card, alpha and omega's 80$ sound card, and a few others im to lazy to look up the proper names of.

now about your nvidia forceware drivers, last i checked they are in the 40mb range, but thats a videodriver that includes not only base 2d and 3d support along with control panil but also software for tvout, purevideo(video playback booster) as well as multi monotor support, so yeah the VIDEO drivers are big, but thats a diffrent topic all togather.

check creatives forums, i linked them, lots of reports of problems.

and not everybody sees problems, but those who do get NO HELP from creative, creative eather ignors them or tells them their other hardware/software is at fault.

those drivers you talk about being built into windows, they suck, the vista sblive drivers are USELESS AS HELL, people have been requesting WORKING sblive drivers for vista since it was in beta, you know why, alot of people payed damn good $ for their sblive 5.1 gamer/plat cards and would like to beable to use them PROPERLY under vista.

"Hardware accelerated audio, better music with the Crystalizer" 

first off the audiophiles here who have tested the crystlizer here will tell you that its crap, hell ask grings, and the hardware accelerated audio....ROFL, yeah that dosnt work in vista m8, due to vistas design the drivers are only barly able to make use of the x-fi's hardware accelration, theres hack out there, but it dosnt work as well as the xp drivers did, this is due to vista not really being designed to support hardware accelerated audio.

as to saying the cmedia chips are all 100% cpu driven, thats bullshit, they do use the cpu for some fx and to do some small parts of the work but guess what, it dosnt make them any slower then the x-fi!!!!

examples of cmi based soundcard that have been rated higher then the x-fi for allaround quility of sound and use in GAMING as well as genral listening.

cmi8768/8768+,8770,8780 cards get better reviews for GAMING as well as music listening, im not just pulling this out of my ass, only somebody whos afrade to admit something they payed to much for may not be that great would dennie that there are better products, as to EAX,as stated in reviews and by other people here, its not all that, you may love it, but in my experiance its nothing special, and yes i have used an x-fi xgamer, audigy1, audigy2zs, and a stack of other cards, I wasnt impressed with them to be honest, mostly due to the drivers sucking.

why does an audio driver need to be 50mb for creative cards and only 5mb for another company and yet have the funtion?

oh note that if you look at the charts its made very clear that the x-fi when run in 7.1 mode can only do 96khz where as the cmi chips from the x-med and newer can do 192khz at 7.1, i know to you im sure this dosnt matter since you probbly have 2ch sound anyway.

I and others tho have full 5.1 or 7.1 setups that give REAL 3d sound in games and movies.

Sad to say but I can easly compare the x-fi I had to the ADI1988 my asus board had(infact the 1988 had better drivers dispite a couple buggs) and the realtek HD audio codec this board has, you know why, because i was one of those people whos system didnt like the x-fi, i fixed it after a few days of tinkering, and desided It was not speeding up games, it was not making things sound better and it was not worth what i spent on it, so i sold it to a buddy who ended up replacing it 4 months later with an 8768+ card from bluegears(auzentechs old name) because when he compared them at a buddys house the CMI based card sounded better in the games he played, in movies oh yeah and its driver control panil was better......i love xear software, it was on my old mobo's onboard sound(good design no eletronic noise, all the componants where shielded!!) 

now about EAX being supported by a game engine, just because its supported by the engine dosnt mean that game dev's using the engine are going to use/implement it, infact there are lots of feturs in every game engine that devs dont use, one commonly un-used feture is the higher EAX supports, some engines have built in phsyics engines, yet alot of game devs went with havoc insted of using what was built into the engine(unreal2 engine games and even some unreal3 engine games are still using havoc) 

point is that just because the engine can support it dosnt mean jack shit when a dev desides they dont want to deal with the hassle of supporting something the majority of their costmers arent gonna use, or because they just dont want to bother with the extra work of adding 5000 voices to a game to make x-fi owners feel better about their soundcards.

the pci-E x-fi is effectivly an AC97 HD codec 100% software driven but it supports all versions of EAX, if creative wasnt so damn stuck up they would make EAX and open standred like they did with eax2, allowing anybody to develop drivers to support it, but insted they eather refuse to licence the rights to creat said driver support OR they do something just as bad, set the price for a licence so high the company couldnt afford it.

auzen wanted to make their 8768 cards fully eax complyant, they ended up not doing it because the price creative wanted in order to let them do it would have made it so they didnt make anything on the cards they sold........

oh and the extream music gives you the specs of the APU not just the spicific card, the higher end x-fi cards basickly had one thing added, more of that effectivly useless audio ram or whatever its called, the thing that only has 1 game that takes advantage of it.......

compare the specs of the x-fi cards against that auzenteck card spec list!!!

and your anniligy of compairing 2400 to 8800 is way off, more like compairing 3870 EE to 8800gt, same market, close prices, diffrent makers.

in this case the cmedia chips win, because they where designed to be better for AUDIO QUILITY and their drivers are better made, anybody whos owned a cmedia card/chipset and used xear will likely tell you the same thing, its very easy to use, works well and offers tweaks that even the highest end creative cards dont(like proper speeker shifter abilities)

blah im gonna watch some more eureka 7


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## ChillyMyst (Jan 26, 2008)

oh and yes the reasion the x-med was dumped was due to low supply of chips, 2 other card makers had to switch to diffrent chips or wait to get more of hte 8770 chips, auzen just dumped the cards, also its assumed they had to do something to get creative to let them use the x-fi apu but there is no proof as far as i know.

but it makes sence to me, creative would do that if only to take their main compotition off the market for a while.


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## Darren (Jan 26, 2008)

ChillyMyst said:


> oh and yes the reasion the x-med was dumped was due to low supply of chips, 2 other card makers had to switch to diffrent chips or wait to get more of hte 8770 chips, auzen just dumped the cards, also its assumed they had to do something to get creative to let them use the x-fi apu but there is no proof as far as i know.
> 
> but it makes sence to me, creative would do that if only to take their main compotition off the market for a while.



*Below is the exact notice on Auzentech's website:*

As of June 2007, this soundcard is no longer in production due to limited chipset availability. Some retailers may have inventory on hand for a limited time

Well Auzentech's X-Meridian uses the "CMI8788" chip yet apparently it's in short availability. Yeah right, such short demand that other manafactures have used the same CMI8788 chip to implement the HT OMEGA CLARO and bluegears b-Enspirer, and they are still are being produced and sold.

Then a few weeks later Auzentech announce that they are releasing a card in partnership with Creative. I'm no rocket scientist but how can a chip that is soo limited in availability be used on various other soundcards yet Auzentech can't get their hands on it as soon as Creative wants to work with them?


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## trog100 (Jan 26, 2008)

candle_86 said:


> well i count myself blessed with bad hearing means i only need soundcards when the current dies, i got a Live because my Soundblaster AWE64 wouldnt work on an Nforce 2



and i bet your car dont even go faster after u wash it.. 

trog


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 26, 2008)

I'm a little jaded by the sound card discussion. Mainly because I don't know what you guys are talking about. Grr...


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## department76 (Jan 26, 2008)

wow that certainly blew up.

from my perspective, there's a huge difrference between c-media and x-fi based cards.  all of that has been covered many times over in this thread.  each card in each price range from each brand is catered to do something different.  it's just the consumers job to do the research on making the right buying choice.  there is no flat out "this cards better," that's just like the whole AMD vs. Intel war.

i think i made the right choice for my needs in selecting the prelude over the fatal1ty champion or ASUS xonar, and frankly, i can't wait until it comes in the mail.  UPS 2nd day just isn't fast enough :-/


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## Franklinwallbrown (Jan 27, 2008)

Well, some people are noobs & need help & need tutoring on how to research. I am under par when it come to research. I am just getting into the computer scene & everything is going by so fast.


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## btarunr (Jan 27, 2008)

department76 said:


> wow that certainly blew up.
> 
> from my perspective, there's a huge difrference between c-media and x-fi based cards.  all of that has been covered many times over in this thread.  each card in each price range from each brand is catered to do something different.  it's just the consumers job to do the research on making the right buying choice.  there is no flat out "this cards better," that's just like the whole AMD vs. Intel war.
> 
> i think i made the right choice for my needs in selecting the prelude over the fatal1ty champion or ASUS xonar, and frankly, i can't wait until it comes in the mail.  UPS 2nd day just isn't fast enough :-/



I'm more than glad you settled for a X-Fi card, it will pay off. I would be a good idea to choose a high-end OPAMP for the front-channel now itself as compatible OPAMP chips are getting rare, in case you were planning for an AMP upgrade for the X-Fi Prelude in the not-so-near future. The March '08 driver will bring in many newer DSPs, I'm waiting for them too. 

@Chillymyst: You are inaccurate, completely. Your comparision an onboard ADI chip to X-Fi is  like comparing a Toyota Corolla to a Lamborghini Diablo, both are capable of reaching 100 mph speeds, just that we all know which one goes faster and which one is better. As for the 5MB C-Media driver, did you know, the Intel 82810E Graphics had a 5 MB driver too. But compare the Intel 810E to a GeForce 8800 and you'll find the differences in the size of the driver obvious.


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## ChillyMyst (Jan 27, 2008)

Darren said:


> *Below is the exact notice on Auzentech's website:*
> 
> As of June 2007, this soundcard is no longer in production due to limited chipset availability. Some retailers may have inventory on hand for a limited time
> 
> ...



yeah, i know, i do know for a short time there was a shortage on some cmedia chips, tho this could easly have been a delayed shipment or the like.

creative im sure didnt want auzen producing cards long side the x-fi based ones that where supperior in specs and abilitys, i mean honestly i cant blame them there, if you looked at a compair chart for the x-fi prelude vs the xmed card and the xmed was better yet older you would probbly go for it dispite the lack of hardware APU and EAX3+(useless crap=eax)


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## ChillyMyst (Jan 27, 2008)

btarunr said:


> I'm more than glad you settled for a X-Fi card, it will pay off. I would be a good idea to choose a high-end OPAMP for the front-channel now itself as compatible OPAMP chips are getting rare, in case you were planning for an AMP upgrade for the X-Fi Prelude in the not-so-near future. The March '08 driver will bring in many newer DSPs, I'm waiting for them too.
> 
> @Chillymyst: You are inaccurate, completely. Your comparision an onboard ADI chip to X-Fi is  like comparing a Toyota Corolla to a Lamborghini Diablo, both are capable of reaching 100 mph speeds, just that we all know which one goes faster and which one is better. As for the 5MB C-Media driver, did you know, the Intel 82810E Graphics had a 5 MB driver too. But compare the Intel 810E to a GeForce 8800 and you'll find the differences in the size of the driver obvious.



acctualy read the hardware specs of what  the 1988b chipset can do, in some respecs it acctualy is better then the x-fi, whitch is sad since its just made to be cheap onboard HD audio.

we need KET in here, he is good at this argument.

and yea, but the 810E isnt ment for 3d use AT ALL, its made for buisness use, also its driver is in a singel driver pack that only supports the intel onboard video from that chipset, where as forceware and catlyist suits support a VERY wide range of cards.

forceware driver cover cards from the fx5200 to the 8800gt/gts, catlyist drivers support radeon 9500 thru the latist 3870 cards, they dont all use the same driver files, its just easyer to pack them into a 1 shot download then deal with uninformed users not knowing what driver to download.

your arguments are based on lack of true knowlage and experiance as you have shown with your poor aniligys.

as to the prelude, i have seen alot of complaints about the auzentech drivers, as I said when it was announced way back when the main problem auzentech will have with the x-fi chip is creating a quility driver, creative isnt likely to be much help since they cant even get their own x-fi cards to be bugg free and they have had years, look at their forums for proof.

the complaints and bad reviews of the prelude have all been dirrected at drivers that arent yet mature for xp and vista, vista i can understand, its a steaming like of horse crap, but xp, they have had plenty of time to get the xp drivers down pat, why so many complaints about stuff like high pitched squeeling on x-fi music cards?  or static on all x-fi cards?

its not a new problem, creative just dosnt want to bother fixing it, or cant seem to figuar out a way to fix it without having to rewrite their drivers.

i personaly couldnt give a crap whitch it is, the fact that creative has PROOVEN year and year again that they cant get the bugs out of their x-fi cards leads me to belive that they did the same bs with the x-fi that happened with the sblive cards back in the day.

for those to young to know the story i will tell it.

the sblive like the x-fi came out to great acclame due to its audio proc chip, it was expencive but everybody wanted one, so tens of thousands sold.
not long after people started complaining of crackling and static in their audio, problems with the cards just stoping working till they reset or did a full shutdown.

after ALOT of user testing and 3rd party research it was found that the problem was in creatives implementation of pci interface on the card, it couldnt deal with latancy settings that where in spec for PCI1.0/1.1 standreds of the day, yet cmedia/yahama/esx/cirrus/crystal/XG/aureal could all do the same job without problems in the same systems.

creative tryed driver fixes that where half ass, in the end they told everybody to set their pci latancys higher, in most cases dubble what the specs called for.

this was at first blamed on the via chipset, but then it was found to a lesser degree to effect most of the chipsets of the day, many board makers ended up harming their performance and just setting the default latancy where it needed to be to keep the sblive cards from crackling(back then onboard audio was a joke, totaly useless for anything) 

creative managed to mostly avoid this with the audigy cards, but then they made the x-fi and the same kinda issue came up, this time they blame the nf4 chipset, one of the most popular amd chipsets of the day, they said it dosnt deal with pci correctly, funny since there are no other products that have had problems with the pci emplimintation of the nf4 chipsets, its just another time creative didnt test properly and didnt follow proper ISO specs for their cards........

hopefully the auzen cards take care of this issue with design, im sure its better then the default x-fi pcb!!!!..

meh im gonna go watch more eureka 7


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## btarunr (Jan 27, 2008)

ChillyMyst said:


> acctualy read the hardware specs of what  the 1988b chipset can do, in some respecs it acctualy is better then the x-fi, whitch is sad since its just made to be cheap onboard HD audio.
> 
> we need KET in here, he is good at this argument.
> 
> ...



lack of true knowledge my arse, your comparing a Azalia compliant DAC to an Audio Processor is lack of commonsense, provide the specs that show exactly what makes a ADI chip better. It's more of "I hate Creative" than "I'd not suggest Creative" for you, piss and moan elsewhere. As for me, I've owned both the Xtreme Gamer and the X-Fi Prelude and I endorse my views by my usage, I paid for those cards and I'm more than glad with what they gave me, the X-Fi Prelude is a superior card to anything ever made in PC audio .period. Nobody needs to know facts to tell that from some POS ADI DAC chip. 

Calling Ket for what? Arguments and more? Well the thread starter has already placed his order for a X-Fi Prelude, you are more than defeated. All your Gospels typed in vain 

This thread has served its purpose of helping someone with a sane purchase decision, your C-Media, Analog Devices > Creative    served no purpose, a mod could close this thread.


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## imperialreign (Jan 27, 2008)

ChillyMyst said:


> check creatives forums, i linked them, lots of reports of problems.
> 
> and not everybody sees problems, but those who do get NO HELP from creative, creative eather ignors them or tells them their other hardware/software is at fault.



never had a problem with Creative responding within 24 hours.  Like all major hardware manufacturers, they cover the basics first.



ChillyMyst said:


> those drivers you talk about being built into windows, they suck, the vista sblive drivers are USELESS AS HELL, people have been requesting WORKING sblive drivers for vista since it was in beta, you know why, alot of people payed damn good $ for their sblive 5.1 gamer/plat cards and would like to beable to use them PROPERLY under vista.



For startars, the ALchemy drivers are written by Creative to work around the Vista OS kernel that . . . f-it, there's no use in explaining it.

I have a Live! Platinum still laying around here - TBH, even if you have one and it's holding up well, it's time to upgrade.  It's been 10 years since the initial release of the Live! series; they were released before WIN XP was ever released, and the fact that Creative supported these cards for up until the release of the X-Fi says a lot about Creative's stance.  The cards are deemed *legacy* by Creative at this point - you're shitting yourself if you think they'll release any new drivers for them . . . ever.



ChillyMyst said:


> "Hardware accelerated audio, better music with the Crystalizer"
> 
> first off the audiophiles here who have tested the crystlizer here will tell you that its crap, hell ask grings, and the hardware accelerated audio....ROFL, yeah that dosnt work in vista m8, due to vistas design the drivers are only barly able to make use of the x-fi's hardware accelration, theres hack out there, but it dosnt work as well as the xp drivers did, this is due to vista not really being designed to support hardware accelerated audio.



you're right here - we will tell you that the crystallizer is shit.  It can make some very low quality files sound better, but all it truly is is an audio filter that makes up for some imperfections.  High bit rate file quality is actually infringed upon with the Crystallizer.  Here's a link I've had posted for quite some time to an in-depth analysis of what the Crystallizer is actually doing: http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/multimedia/creative-x-fi-part2.html - notice, though, that Creative targets this technology at mp3 and game audio playback - not listening to HD material.




ChillyMyst said:


> as to saying the cmedia chips are all 100% cpu driven, thats bullshit, they do use the cpu for some fx and to do some small parts of the work but guess what, it dosnt make them any slower then the x-fi!!!!
> 
> examples of cmi based soundcard that have been rated higher then the x-fi for allaround quility of sound and use in GAMING as well as genral listening.
> 
> cmi8768/8768+,8770,8780 cards get better reviews for GAMING as well as music listening, im not just pulling this out of my ass, only somebody whos afrade to admit something they payed to much for may not be that great would dennie that there are better products, as to EAX,as stated in reviews and by other people here, its not all that, you may love it, but in my experiance its nothing special, and yes i have used an x-fi xgamer, audigy1, audigy2zs, and a stack of other cards, I wasnt impressed with them to be honest, mostly due to the drivers sucking.



again: a chipset is inherently slower than a dedicated processor!!  The X-Fi APU was designed for sheer performance with great sound quality - I never said the best in the industry.  But where it slightly lacks in quality, it can perform audio processing a thousand times faster than a C-Media chipset (depending entirelly on what CPU is aiding the CM).

Auzen's cards might recieve better sound quality ratings in games, etc - but their cards cannot perform the same amount of tasks that an X-Fi can, which, unless you have a great CPU, you'll start running into audio clipping issues as the BUS starts getting bogged down with requests from the PCI - on exact same setups, an X-Fi will handle more tasks than a CM, and faster, too.

again:  EAX is really down to personal taste, and how well the game developers implimented EAX.  Some games stand out really well, others it seems like it was more of an after thought.




ChillyMyst said:


> why does an audio driver need to be 50mb for creative cards and only 5mb for another company and yet have the funtion?



drivers for dedicated processing units tend to be much larger than drivers for a chipset.  For example, the most current Intel chipset drivers are only a 2MB download.  AMD/ATI's chipset driver for a Crossfire Xpress 3200 chipset is only 5.1MB.  The actual chipset drivers from nVidia's nForce 7 series is only 6MB (IIRC).




ChillyMyst said:


> oh note that if you look at the charts its made very clear that the x-fi when run in 7.1 mode can only do 96khz where as the cmi chips from the x-med and newer can do 192khz at 7.1, i know to you im sure this dosnt matter since you probbly have 2ch sound anyway.
> 
> I and others tho have full 5.1 or 7.1 setups that give REAL 3d sound in games and movies.



  That's called downsampling   we know about this limitation with the X-Fi cards  



ChillyMyst said:


> Sad to say but I can easly compare the x-fi I had to the ADI1988 my asus board had(infact the 1988 had better drivers dispite a couple buggs) and the realtek HD audio codec this board has, you know why, because i was one of those people whos system didnt like the x-fi, i fixed it after a few days of tinkering, and desided It was not speeding up games, it was not making things sound better and it was not worth what i spent on it, so i sold it to a buddy who ended up replacing it 4 months later with an 8768+ card from bluegears(auzentechs old name) because when he compared them at a buddys house the CMI based card sounded better in the games he played, in movies oh yeah and its driver control panil was better......i love xear software, it was on my old mobo's onboard sound(good design no eletronic noise, all the componants where shielded!!)



:shadedshu  just shot yourself in the foot, there.  If onboard truly sounds better to you than even a low-end Creative card - more power to you.




ChillyMyst said:


> now about EAX being supported by a game engine, just because its supported by the engine dosnt mean that game dev's using the engine are going to use/implement it, infact there are lots of feturs in every game engine that devs dont use, one commonly un-used feture is the higher EAX supports, some engines have built in phsyics engines, yet alot of game devs went with havoc insted of using what was built into the engine(unreal2 engine games and even some unreal3 engine games are still using havoc)
> 
> point is that just because the engine can support it dosnt mean jack shit when a dev desides they dont want to deal with the hassle of supporting something the majority of their costmers arent gonna use, or because they just dont want to bother with the extra work of adding 5000 voices to a game to make x-fi owners feel better about their soundcards.



So, you're saying that game devs won't go the extre mile for better implimentation because the *majority* of their customers *don't* use a Creative card?!!    Funny, funny!

EAX boils down to how much effort a dev put into it's implimentation - case in point: Doom3, OpenAL and EAX 5.0 support was added after the games launch.  Granted, ID did a great job of going back through the game, but there are many areas where the reverb doesn't sound right, close-range sounds are a bit loud, and some effects are a little off.  A _good_ example, though, would be to go play Thief: Deadly Shadows (a game that relies heavily on audio cues to the player), where EAX 4.0 was written in during development - it sound better than Doom3.



ChillyMyst said:


> the pci-E x-fi is effectivly an AC97 HD codec 100% software driven but it supports all versions of EAX, if creative wasnt so damn stuck up they would make EAX and open standred like they did with eax2, allowing anybody to develop drivers to support it, but insted they eather refuse to licence the rights to creat said driver support OR they do something just as bad, set the price for a licence so high the company couldnt afford it.
> 
> auzen wanted to make their 8768 cards fully eax complyant, they ended up not doing it because the price creative wanted in order to let them do it would have made it so they didnt make anything on the cards they sold........



the Creative XA PCIE card is more geared towards OE system builders than the average customer.  But, the typical customer will be interested in it simply because it's one of the very few products on the market that make use of the PCI-E 1x slot. 

Asides, Creative own the rights to EAX 3.0-5.0; it's entirelly up to them what they do with those DSPs.  If they feel like charging an arm and a leg, they have that right.  It allows them to keep a corner of the market, no matter what their competition wants to do.

Oh, and the Prelude is EAX 5.0 complaint.



ChillyMyst said:


> oh and the extream music gives you the specs of the APU not just the spicific card, the higher end x-fi cards basickly had one thing added, more of that effectivly useless audio ram or whatever its called, the thing that only has 1 game that takes advantage of it.......
> 
> compare the specs of the x-fi cards against that auzenteck card spec list!!!



the onboard RAM is not useless.  It's only on the Fatal1ty and Elite Pro that Creative advertise the full 64MB capable.  The Xtreme Music used 32MB.  The more RAM on the card, the fewere requests to the PCI BUS being made, as the APU can handle storage of all processing files "in-house," instead of having to swap them back and forth to the system MEM.

On my older Intel desktop board, using 2GB standard DDR, I had a lot of audio clipping with an Xtreme Gamer.  Moving up to and Xtreme Music improved things quite a bit, and finally trading that in for a Fatal1ty completely cleared any audio clipping.  No motherboard BIOS settings were changed, as the BIOS was locked.  

If you'll notice, the reason the specs for the X-Fi cards all appear similar is due to the specs of the APU being listed.  There are some changes to the spec list based on the card, but few worth mentioning - the real changes are what the card is capable of supporting, and the design and layout of the PCB (which greatly affects the final quality of playback).




ChillyMyst said:


> in this case the cmedia chips win, because they where designed to be better for AUDIO QUILITY and their drivers are better made, anybody whos owned a cmedia card/chipset and used xear will likely tell you the same thing, its very easy to use, works well and offers tweaks that even the highest end creative cards dont(like proper speeker shifter abilities)



*DID I NOT SAY IN AN EARLY POST THAT THE X-Fi IS DESIGNED FOR PERFORMANCE, WHEREAS THE C-MEDIA CHIPSET IS DESIGNED FOR QUALITY?!!*

  

dude, I respect your perserverance, but get your facts straight.

I'm done with this thread.


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## btarunr (Jan 27, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> you're right here - we will tell you that the crystallizer is shit.
> 
> 
> again: a chipset is inherently slower than a dedicated processor!!  The X-Fi APU was designed for sheer performance with great sound quality - I never said the best in the industry.  But where it slightly lacks in quality, it can perform audio processing a thousand times faster than a C-Media chipset (depending entirelly on what CPU is aiding the CM).



From what I understand, your music collection is full of lossless WMA or high bitrate files. Crystalizer was built for games where the music and sound files are compressed, even if in wave format. The intro-title music of Doom 3 is 40 kbps Ogg Vorbis, for example, play it with and without Crystalizer to note the difference. 

As for music, X-Fi users, try this simple test, you will need Winamp 5. 

for 15 minutes, listen to this stream without the Crystalizer, Winamp > File > Play URL > "http://somafm.com/groovesalad48.pls" (without quotes). PLay it again with Crystalizer turned on, listen to the difference yourselves. It's a 64 kbps AACP stream which with the Crystlizer can sound better than 256 kbps MP3. For compares, play this stream: "http://somafm.com/groovesalad.pls" (without quotes), it's 128 kbps MP3. Play this in the same with/without Crystalizer, note the sharp differences. 

As for CMI8788, Chillymyst is factually wrong. The CMI8788 uses the CPU for even the basic operations such as sample mixing, sample rate conversion, etc, it's 100% CPU dependent for all its operations except Xear 3D (which genuinely sounds like shit). In the aspect of hardware autonomity, it's a comparision similar to the Realtek RTL8139 and Thomas Conrad TC4041 (the latter is 100% autonomous with all its operations), I'm not using Killer NIC here.


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## trog100 (Jan 27, 2008)

course the only real problem with having the worlds "best" imput device is all the other bits between it and the listeners subjective experience..

i once heard a story that goes like this.. 

dad is sat there listening to his nice expensive sound system.. dad is a hi-fi buff and has been for years.. only the "best" is good enough for dad..

in walks son.. dad he says.. did u know your tweeters have blown.. from that day on dad went right off his expensive gear.. he was never the same again..

trog


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## department76 (Jan 31, 2008)

came in today. i'm listening right now on headphones, and it is _phenominal_; and better i think than headphones plugged into my receiver from spdif.

have yet to game or try DDL.




trog100 said:


> course the only real problem with having the worlds "best" imput device is all the other bits between it and the listeners subjective experience..
> 
> i once heard a story that goes like this..
> 
> ...




then i'd call the kids dad an idiot


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## department76 (Feb 1, 2008)

yup, verdicts in; great card.

DDL works flawlessly while gaming, it's a simple switch from that to headphones.

right now i am finding myslef listening to lots of music rather than doing a lot of gaming, i'm still shocked at the quality of the analog on this card.  i can't leave my DTS disks alone!!  4602Kbps 96/24 2ch LPCM FTW!!!!!!!!!


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## btarunr (Feb 1, 2008)

Let it rock you man 

It pays to go Auzen, pays to go X-Fi.


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