# My overclock: Comments from the experienced w/ DualCore AMD Athlon64 x2 CPU users...



## Alec§taar (Jul 18, 2006)

See subject-line/title above, first, & please - DO comment if you think you have some ways for me to do this better (given the CPU-z 1.35 data I am about to output here next):

I now have overclocked my CPU (@ last/finally) & use a CoolerMaster Heatsink/fan/phasechange heatpipe combination cooler... 

It's doing the job alright, even o/c'd to the utmost possible "max" I could pull off here, so far! 

Runs around 40C - 45C iirc, under moderate loads, & during a 90F temp ambient heatwave we're having this week (HOT AS HECK!).

*(AMD Athlon64 x2 4800+, reading @ 2592.5mhz (up from stock 2400mhz) via CPU-z 1.35)*

I also had to 'drop' my RAM back to DDR-333 levels, rather than DDR-400, & still may have to try to "tighten" the timings on it, which I dislike but needs doing - hassle is, if I "push" too hard, it locks up the machine & I have to go "defaults" again & redo it all... 

I am SURE most of you know what I am talking about here (the hassle involved).

(That memory "slowdown" & "loosening of timings" IS the only part of o/c'ing I don't like, but it IS optimization to-the-max, in that I had to "PULL" from one area (memory) to gain in another (cpu))

For gaming? It makes ABSOLUTE sense though... o/c the vidcard, & the CPU, and you gain more than speeding up memory (imo @ least!).

Anyhow/anyways - the data!

The RAM timings I use (per CPU-z 1.35) are currently:

*CPU:*

Core Speed: 2592.5 (fluctuates +/- .2)
Multiplier: 12x
HTT: 216 MHz

*Memory:*

Frequency = 172.8
FSB: DRAM = CPU/15
CAS# Latency = 3.0 clocks
RAS# to CAS# Dleay = 4 clocks
RAS# Precharge = 3 clocks
Cycle Time (Tras) = 6 clocks
Bank Cycle Time (Trc) = 11 clocks
Command Rate = 2T
DRAM Idle Timer = 16 clocks

&

*SPD:*

Frequency = 200mhz
CAS# Latency = 2.0
RAS# to CAS# = 3
RAS# Precharge = 2
Tras = 6

The air-cooled + phasechange setup I have here (on both CPU & Vidcard) seem to do the job well... even o/c'd on both, as far as I could go @ this point & running stable!

So, given that data? Can ANY of you point-out, via YOUR experience w/ this CPU family, anything I ought to shoot for, especially in the area of memory timings "tightening"...?

THANKS!

APK

P.S.=> LOL, what blows me away is, you can combine a variety of permutations/possibles, because of multiplier & clockrate combinations for the memory AND the CPU! I have no idea if I hit the "BEST" one is all... 

Above all - Thanks for info. & input here fellas, you're my resource on this now! apk


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## Ketxxx (Jul 18, 2006)

for a DC thats pretty good, you wont see many "normal" X2 CPUs going beyond 2.6GHz. If you had a DC opty on the other hand....they are tending to do 2.8GHz+

on the other hand your ram seems pretty crappy and its deffinately crippling what you can do. Mushkin have some nice cheap (and decent) DDR500, so if your looking to replace your ram deffinately give the DDR500 a look


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## Alec§taar (Jul 18, 2006)

Ketxxx said:
			
		

> for a DC thats pretty good, you wont see many "normal" X2 CPUs going beyond 2.6GHz. If you had a DC opty on the other hand....they are tending to do 2.8GHz+



Thanks man, especially considering it's holding STABLE in a "heatwave" the U.S. is experiencing this week (all across nation 48 states over 90 F temp)....

It was a PAIN bigtime, finding the RIGHT combination for the CPU stuff... I will be back w/ the multipliers & rates I used in my BIOS on my next post!

(I figure you guys might need it, to advise me on those damn RAM timings! My bad for NOT outputting it here imo!)

It's Corsair Matched Pair (2x256mb RAM sticks) "basic/value" type memory (nothing special in other words, std. DDR-400)...



* So, that said? Let me get back to you shortly w/ my BIOS data settings on CPU clockrate & multipliers, etc. et al!

APK

P.S.=> Do my games run faster? I would say "YES, absolutely" & for the "optimization push/pull" from memory to CPU done in o/c'ing a rig for gaming (this may even help my F@H times as well possibly, I don't know). Between this, & "Coolbits.reg" o/c'ing my vidcard (GeForce 7900 GTX OC, also phasechange + air cooled), definitely faster gaming!

(Anyhow - I think w/ your guys' help, maybe even faster - because you all have experience here!)

Yes, it is "unique per system" to a good extent due to diff. parts we use, but cannot hurt to ask you guys imo, you ARE the "voices of experience" & all that... brb w/ more data (CPU-BIOS wise)... apk


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## Ketxxx (Jul 18, 2006)

see me edited post  your ram is deffinately crippling you. Probably the biggest performance gain you can have with memory isnt out and out speed or the lowest possible primary timings, but the best possible secondary timings which have a part in memory write. If you can crack past 3GB\s you should notice quite a substantial perf boost, especially in loading times for games.


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## Alec§taar (Jul 18, 2006)

Ketxxx said:
			
		

> see me edited post  your ram is deffinately crippling you.



No doubt, I believe it... I'd bet the RAM you suggest wouldn't possibly require "stepping down" the DDR-400 to DDR-333 rates!



			
				Ketxxx said:
			
		

> Probably the biggest performance gain you can have with memory isnt out and out speed or the lowest possible primary timings, but the best possible secondary timings which have a part in memory write.



Aha, so... I'd STILL have to "step it down" from DDR-400 (or, in this case DDR-500?) rates, to DDR-333 then?

* Thanks for info. (learning as I go)!



			
				Ketxxx said:
			
		

> If you can crack past 3GB\s you should notice quite a substantial perf boost, especially in loading times for games.



Sounds good!

(I'll eventually buy that RAM then most likely, but until then? I have to "make do" & get this to it's "BEST" settings if possible)

BRB, with CPU + BIOS multipliers & rates...

APK


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## Alec§taar (Jul 18, 2006)

*CPU DATA from CPU-z (if you need BIOS stuff, let me know)*

See subject-line/title above first (thanks) & comment (FULL DATA ARRAY FROM CPU-z 1.35, all consolidated here now in 1 post via edit):

*CPU:*

Core Speed: 2592.5 (fluctuates +/- .2)
Multiplier: 12x
HTT: 216 MHz

*Memory:*

Frequency = 172.8
FSB: DRAM = CPU/15
CAS# Latency = 3.0 clocks
RAS# to CAS# Dleay = 4 clocks
RAS# Precharge = 3 clocks
Cycle Time (Tras) = 6 clocks
Bank Cycle Time (Trc) = 11 clocks
Command Rate = 2T
DRAM Idle Timer = 16 clocks

&

*SPD:*

Frequency = 200mhz
CAS# Latency = 2.0
RAS# to CAS# = 3
RAS# Precharge = 2
Tras = 6



* Sufficient?

(If needed on your guys end for commentary, that is)

APK

P.S.=> Again, if you NEED more data (say, from my BIOS)? Do let me know... gracias & thanks for the comments + assist here! apk


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## Ketxxx (Jul 18, 2006)

Nope not in the slightest. To crack 3GB\s write speeds you need to be able to run a 1:1 ratio, 1T command rate enabled, and the lowest possible set of secondary timings, for example something like 2-2-2-3. Remember, I'm not talking about CAS- TRCD- TRRD- TRAS timings there 

ed- if you can get me a A64 tweaker screenie and tell me what bios options you have on your board i can start suggesting some timings u can try


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## Alec§taar (Jul 18, 2006)

Ketxxx said:
			
		

> Nope not in the slightest.



WoW... that sounds AWESOME actually!

(To NOT have to "step it down" from DDR500/400 type rates, down to DDR-333 as I had to)



			
				Ketxxx said:
			
		

> To crack 3GB\s write speeds you need to be able to run a 1:1 ratio, 1T command rate enabled, and the lowest possible set of secondary timings, for example something like 2-2-2-3. Remember, I'm not talking about CAS- TRCD- TRRD- TRAS timings there



Ah... now THAT is the data I wanted to see!



* Heh, as far as hardware? It appears I could use better, more o/c'able RAM!

As far as "fiddling" w/ the RAM timings I do have now though, anyone o/c an Athlon 64 x2 (of any variety) w/ diff. ones & achieve results that REALLY rock, that I might be able to apply?

Same w/ CPU stuff too! Thanks...

*EDIT PART:* What is "A64 tweaker"?

APK

P.S.=> That CPU data help any? NOTE - I edited ALL posts w/ the data in them, so they show it all from CPU-z 1.35 (CPU data, & memory stuff too).

Comments are appreciated, as you guys ARE the "voices-of-experience" in THIS area, & my teachers now... apk


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## Ketxxx (Jul 18, 2006)

Erm, in all honesty, no, not really. Thats why I  asked for the A64 tweaker screenie


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## Alec§taar (Jul 18, 2006)

What is "A64 tweaker"?



* A software of somekind? If so, where to obtain??

(Download URL???)

THANKS!

APK


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## KJY9 (Jul 18, 2006)

Ketxxx said:
			
		

> ...1T command rate enabled...



That will help him the most from where he's at right now.
When I was running my 4400+, going from 2t to 1t jumped my mem benches immensely.


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## Ketxxx (Jul 18, 2006)

Alec§taar said:
			
		

> What is "A64 tweaker"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


linky for A64 tweaker, never leave home without it


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## Alec§taar (Jul 18, 2006)

*OK, I see the "1T" suggestion & know where it is in my BIOS*

See subject-line/title above, first, & another question from last page:

1.) This "1T" command-rate thing - can this RAM I use "pull it off"? 

(EDITED OUT QUESTION ON "A64 Tweaker", got it now (Thanks Ketxxx) & see what you mean, brb w/ screenshot of its data)

I ask, because again, if I screw up? It tends to "lock up my rig" @ bootup & I have to redo it all again, lol... you've all probably BEEN there & know how THAT can be... a pain!

* Thanks (learning as I go here)!

APK


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## Alec§taar (Jul 18, 2006)

*A64 Tweaker software screenshot data requested by Ketxxx*

See subject-line/title above, & this photograph/screenshot:









* Above all, thanks for the suggestions/help/pointers guys!

APK


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## Ketxxx (Jul 18, 2006)

Right ok lets start with tref latency, start by adjusting that to 3120 15.6us, or as A64 simply displays it as, 200MHz 15.6us.

As for a full set of timings, I'll list them in the order A64 does. 3-16-16-4-4-8-3-3-2-3.

Also try adjusting the idle cycle limit to 0 or 256, turn dynamic idle cycle counter off. Disable 2T command rate, but leave this till last.

Adjusting the async latency to 8ns should also help. Lastly you might want to try a weak instead of normal drive strength. A bit generic I know, but I'm a Mushy tech I dunno how corsair\adata spd program their modules 

Also dont make ALL these changes at the same time, start with just the async latency and if thats all good, then start by tweaking the other timings.


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## Alec§taar (Jul 18, 2006)

Ketxxx said:
			
		

> Right ok lets start with tref latency, start by adjusting that to 3120 15.6us, or as A64 simply displays it as, 200MHz 15.6us.
> 
> As for a full set of timings, I'll list them in the order A64 does. 3-16-16-4-4-8-3-3-2-3.
> 
> ...



Wild! 

(You certainly DO "know your stuff" in this area!)

*QUESTION:*

Does the "A64 Tweaker" program write these values to BIOS or something, out of the Win32 GUI RPL3/Ring3 mode of operation?

* Thanks for info.!

APK


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## Alec§taar (Jul 18, 2006)

*Excellent, & I will proceed in the manner/order you describe!*

See subject-line/title above, & screenshot below:








* Gracias above all else... I learned a "new thing" today!

APK

P.S.=> Again, I will apply them in the SPECIFIC order you suggest!

*Once more though - A QUESTION:*

Does this apply the DIRECTLY from Ring3/RPL3/UserMode Win32 GUI operation directly to my BIOS? 

Also, does it also require a "reboot" (I imagine it may)... apk


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## Ketxxx (Jul 18, 2006)

No reboot needed, A64 tweaker seems to interact directly with the bios, but the settings are not applied in the boards bios. you need to save the config and have it load with a64 tweaker at windows boot. let me know how the settings go, and if all is stable with a 1:1 ratio, then we can start work on tweaking the timings.


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## Alec§taar (Jul 18, 2006)

Ketxxx said:
			
		

> No reboot needed, A64 tweaker seems to interact directly with the bios, but the settings are not applied in the boards bios.



Aha, so... this is like AMD/ASUS "overclocking" tools then!

(Software "emulation" basically, interacting w/ drivers for AMD, & possibly "re-parameterizing them": Has to be this way, imo!)

*QUESTION:* That all said - If it works stable, may I apply them IN THE BIOS instead, once they prove "stable" & all that?



			
				Ketxxx said:
			
		

> you need to save the config and have it load with a64 tweaker at windows boot.



Ah, got ya/will do... so far, I applied them ALL, but haven't "saved the config" yet & did the "apply @ bootup" yet!



			
				Ketxxx said:
			
		

> let me know how the settings go, and if all is stable with a 1:1 ratio, then we can start work on tweaking the timings.



Aha, ok... now, on the 1:1 ratio part - what setting is THAT one on the screenshots I put out?

(Haven't saved the 2T to 1T yet either, waiting on that)

APK

P.S.=> Waiting on results of questions prior to save, apply @ bootup, & reboot so these all take @ next Windows login/system bootup! apk


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## Ketxxx (Jul 18, 2006)

MEMCLK frequency  change that to 200, and adjust the tref to 200 15.6us at the same time.


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## Alec§taar (Jul 18, 2006)

Ketxxx said:
			
		

> MEMCLK frequency  change that to 200, and adjust the tref to 200 15.6us at the same time.



Got it, saved to .a64 file...



* If this works-out stable, once more: Can I apply it DIRECTLY to the BIOS, instead of using this AMD/NForce drivers reparameterization software (that's my guess as to HOW it works & all that)...

APK

P.S.=> AND, if NOT stable? Safemode reboot can help me "undo" this, correct?? TIA! apk


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## bbriand (Jul 18, 2006)

Yeah dropping my Command Timings from 2T to 1T doubled a lot of my memory scores.  Its worth trying 

Bill


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## Ketxxx (Jul 18, 2006)

You should be able to apply as many settings as the BIOS has available without issues yeah.


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## Ketxxx (Jul 18, 2006)

bbriand said:
			
		

> Yeah dropping my Command Timings from 2T to 1T doubled a lot of my memory scores.  Its worth trying
> 
> Bill



Technically speaking, your not "dropping" when going to 1T, your increasing


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## Alec§taar (Jul 18, 2006)

*Well, got the 2T to 1T (increase/decrease, lol, whatever) going & working so far*

See subject-line/title above:

So far, the 2T to 1T works, which is good (from what you guys say)!

Something wasn't though & "locked me up" once the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE startup area 'fired'... no biggie, because a "SAFE MODE" bootup got me past it to undo it there (by using the A64 Tweaker tool menu option to remove startup settings).

NOTE - You can't use F8 bootup "Last Known Good Configuration" to undo it either, something to be aware of, if it hangs you up etc.!

The 2T to 1T is NOW COMMITTED TO MY BIOS memory settings! It works...



It's going to be a BIT of "Trial & Error" but nice part is, if you don't do them @ the BIOS LEVEL first? You can "prototype" here first, & use what does work by eventually committing it to the BIOS when you find the right mix!

(Imo @ least, this is HOW I am going to pursue this, using A64 Tweaker as a "prototyping tool" more-or-less!)

APK

P.S.=> Thanks for the info., because of this, I can do this @ will, & not "Wipe out my BIOS" having to reset it to DEFAULTS all over again, & losing what little I gained o/c'ing thusfar on the CPU end, & can 're-engineer' my memory timings now too, w/out "undoing" all else whilst I experiment! apk


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## Ketxxx (Jul 18, 2006)

glad to be of service


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## Alec§taar (Jul 18, 2006)

Ketxxx said:
			
		

> glad to be of service



Thanks, most definitely & I "owe you one" @ least, imo!



* You took me past what I was able to do with some work (BIOS o/c CPU levels overclocks ontop of my vidcard ones) into the memory timings "tightenings" & what tools to "prototype it" with easily enough!

APK


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## Ketxxx (Jul 18, 2006)

let us know how things go


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## demonbrawn (Jul 18, 2006)

This is all great stuff! How did you keep your HTT lower than your CPU speed? I don't seem to have a HTT multiplier in my BIOS so it always keeps up with my CPU speed when I overclock, which I heard is not a good thing. I was told to keep the HTT as close to its default speed as possible to run stable. So, how were you able to do it?


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## Alec§taar (Jul 18, 2006)

demonbrawn said:
			
		

> This is all great stuff! How did you keep your HTT lower than your CPU speed? I don't seem to have a HTT multiplier in my BIOS so it always keeps up with my CPU speed when I overclock, which I heard is not a good thing. I was told to keep the HTT as close to its default speed as possible to run stable. So, how were you able to do it?



Whoosh - I'll be darned if I know!



* It was a few hours of "hit & miss" testing yesterday evening really... I just kept "trying & trying" via 'Trial & Error' attempts really...

(There are TRUCKLOADS of possible mixes/permutations/possibles in CPU clocks, the formula of CPU Mhz Rate x multiplier is the KEY one to get imo, coupled with "weaker/looser" memory timings!)

From there, you do what Ketxxx & KYJ9 up there helped me go thru, in "re-tightening" the memory timings chain!

APK

P.S.=> The HASSLE of it was going @ it @ the BIOS level imo, trying to beat the ASUS A8N-SLI BIOS' in-built "wizards" for it (AI OverClock, or AI N.O.S. stuff, gives you 3-5-8-10% options)... 

They DID help, but I just knew that folks "into this" would have guides for my mobo type & I followed them from online elsewhere!

Next step is tightening the memtimings & I am on my way on that too, but NO losing settings anymore @ BIOS level... 

E.G.-> FIRST, I test/prototype using A64 Tweaker for the memtimings, & if I lockup @ Windows boot? 

Like I said above - SAFEMODE only works to remove them via A64 Tweaker & then reboot & try again (not losing a single BIOS setting, which is a PAIN!).

Once they prove stable via this tool reparming drivers or using Frank Delattre (CPU-z author)'s drivers (they share them, this I found out already) & reparming them?

I commit them to BIOS & all is permanent then, & no added layered filtering interrupt intercepting drivers required anymore... 

Once proven & stable?

Then, I then stop using A64 Tweaker @ boot & set the settings PERMANENTLY in the BIOS (especially in this heatwave)! 

Hey, I figure it like this:

If they stay stable now? They will certainly in colder weather w/ lower ambient temps (92F here today: HOT!)

This set of tools is MUCH like how ASUS AI NOS tool works:

Good prototyper, BUT not one I will keep around once I get some settings right & mobo BIOS commit them as permanent!

(As it adds another driver program in memory & is another layer over what your BIOS can do natively once you get it right... hardware ALWAYS beats software imo!)... apk


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## bbriand (Jul 18, 2006)

Alec§taar said:
			
		

> P.S.=> Thanks for the info., because of this, I can do this @ will, & not "Wipe out my BIOS" having to reset it to DEFAULTS all over again, & losing what little I gained o/c'ing thusfar on the CPU end, & can 're-engineer' my memory timings now too, w/out "undoing" all else whilst I experiment! apk



If your Premium mobo has the same software / capibilities as my Deluxe mobo you can very easily backup your BIOS at anytime and store all your tweaked BIOS settings.  That way if things glitch up horribly you could reflash all your settings back.

Not that reflashing should be taken lightly.

Just thought I'd toss that out there.

Bill


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## demonbrawn (Jul 18, 2006)

Interesting. On my motherboard, if something goes wrong, all I have to do is power down and then power back up. When it boots up there is a screen that reads "Overclock failed! Press F1 to enter BIOS and make changes or press F2 to restore defaults." That's very handy! That way, I can press F1 and all my settings are exactly the same as they were before the crash which saves time. Anyway, I just want to figure out how to seperate the HTT from the CPU speed. I even set my CPU speed @ 200 with a multplier of 11.5 to get 2.3 hoping that my HTT would stay at 200, but it followed to 230. Shew, trial and error indeed...


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## bbriand (Jul 18, 2006)

demonbrawn said:
			
		

> "Overclock failed! Press F1 to enter BIOS and make changes or press F2 to restore defaults."



When you do press F1 does it put everything back to the settings you had minus the last changes that caused the lockup or does it restore to factory defaults?

As for setting the HTT multiplier seperate from the CPU I dunno.  I see you don't have the ability to set it to 1-5.  I have seen others say it is sometimes the numbers themselves (I think 200-1000).

Bill


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## demonbrawn (Jul 18, 2006)

> When you do press F1 does it put everything back to the settings you had minus the last changes that caused the lockup or does it restore to factory defaults?



It saves the settings you had. I don't think it corrects the settings that made it crash, but I could be wrong.




> As for setting the HTT multiplier seperate from the CPU I dunno. I see you don't have the ability to set it to 1-5. I have seen others say it is sometimes the numbers themselves (I think 200-1000).



Ohhh yeah I do have that option. However, I think I set it to 800 once to see what would happen, but the HTT speed still read the same as the CPU speed when I loaded CPU-Z, so I wasn't sure what it did...


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## bbriand (Jul 18, 2006)

I have been trying to get the manual from ASUS's support site.  I wish they would upgrade their speed or purchase more computers for their websites.  Keeps timing out (nothing new there)

I googled and came across this gem (well I think its a gem).  check it out:
http://www.driverheaven.net/showthread.php?t=104156
http://www.driverheaven.net/printthread.php?t=104156

hehe manual finally loaded but I think that link is what you want anyhow.

Bill


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## Alec§taar (Jul 18, 2006)

bbriand said:
			
		

> If your Premium mobo has the same software / capibilities as my Deluxe mobo you can very easily backup your BIOS at anytime and store all your tweaked BIOS settings.  That way if things glitch up horribly you could reflash all your settings back.
> 
> Not that reflashing should be taken lightly.
> 
> ...




Got ya, "6 of 1 & 1/2 dozen of another" (a lb. of lead = a lb. of feathers) etc. lol!



* An alternate to my method of recovery (SafeMode)

APK


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## Alec§taar (Jul 18, 2006)

Sorry for delay in reply first of all guys, busy here with PROBLEMATIC chunk of code (pissing me off lol):



			
				demonbrawn said:
			
		

> Interesting. On my motherboard, if something goes wrong, all I have to do is power down and then power back up. When it boots up there is a screen that reads "Overclock failed! Press F1 to enter BIOS and make changes or press F2 to restore defaults."



Heh, MINE TALKS TO ME doing that!



(Literally)

A "vocal bios" settings in my version of my mobo BIOS, perhaps this will solve your hassle HERE:

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?p=122784#post122784

(Go to ASUS & look for BIOS updates! I can put a higher CPU voltage than 1.4v too...)

Only hassle is, when I go TOO far/too "radical"? I never even get THAT far... no joke, you try it?? You'll see what I mean!

(You won't "fry" your board either, it's just a hassle, as it loses what you setup for the o/c & defaults back to its hardwired defaults sometimes too!)



			
				demonbrawn said:
			
		

> That's very handy! That way, I can press F1 and all my settings are exactly the same as they were before the crash which saves time.



Depends though, because like I said above? It "knocked mine out" before, pushing WAY too hard, even seeing visual artifacts yesterday during POST... then lockup, solid.

Spent HOURS @ it...



			
				demonbrawn said:
			
		

> Anyway, I just want to figure out how to seperate the HTT from the CPU speed. I even set my CPU speed @ 200 with a multplier of 11.5 to get 2.3 hoping that my HTT would stay at 200, but it followed to 230. Shew, trial and error indeed...



Yes it is... & there are a VARIETY of possibles/permutations as well in the multiplier vs. clock combination!



* Not 110% sure mine is "the best" yet, but it surely is working & well thusfar, even in the memory timings tightenings!

APK

P.S.=> I'll write you guys w/ my 'final settings' as a reference for you when it's ALL done, hours from now (work tasks = First "fish to fry" though)... apk


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## Alec§taar (Jul 19, 2006)

*Excellent tip from Tatty One for you all to be aware of:*

See my subject-line/title above, & here it is from another thread here where Tatty One "turned me on" to a good working speedup over what I got myself, check it:







*QUOTE OF TATTY ONE's TIP/TRICK/TECHNIQUE (from URL below & noted in quote, in detail):*

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?p=123415#post123415



			
				Tatty_One said:
			
		

> Alec, give it a go lowering your multiplier by one then you get the higher FSB to increase your 333 Ram setting speed.  I have managed to get mine on just about dead on 400Mhz with my clocks on my 4200 x2 and am running the cores @2800.  OK I have ended up still on my 11x multiplier but I was completely stable at 10 x 279 but had to drop the memory down to 133 cause it was too fast, you will be on 12 x I imagine, try the 11 and see how she does.



It worked man!

(Thank you for a heads-up on "The Good Word"...)

Stepping back from a 12x multiplier (216 x 12) & going with 11x as you suggested (so far stable (even in this HEATWAVE we're having) -> 239 x 11) is working JUST FINE!

* I went up from 2592.5mhz -> to 2632.7mhz! That's a 40mhz jump alone, & I am not done yet!

(So far, the "total jump/increase" so far is 232mhz over stock... & it is running stable!)

I can STILL get more I am fairly sure (heck, Tatty's pushing 2800mhz!!!)



* Simply awesome!

APK


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## Alec§taar (Jul 19, 2006)

*Even MORE now because of Tatty One's tip*








* I'm going to go and play Quake 4 SMP &/or Doom III now, & see how stable it stays @ this clock... if it does BOTH games well, for an hour or so?

I'LL PUSH FARTHER!

APK

P.S.=> 2700mhz (almost) & in this blistering heat (ambient is 93F outside today) & STABLE (the best part, but true test will be those games imo)... 

"WoW!"... apk


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## Alec§taar (Jul 19, 2006)

*Yet another increase, need advice (Tatty One, &/or Ketxxx?)*

Well, I broke 2706mhz, & just played BOTH Doom III &/or Quake 4 SMP for more than 1 hour & was solid/stable:

BUT I HAVE QUESTIONS/NEED TIPS-ADVICE (mainly memory stuff in 2nd-most photo from top below)

*CPU RATE*






&

*MEMORY CLOCK TIMING CHAIN*








* Any "sound advice" on those settings guys?

(Especially the memory ones - I think I can pull them tighter possibly, because I 'stepped-down' to DDR-333 (vs. DDR-400)).

Thanks!

APK


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Jul 19, 2006)

my asus p5wd2 does the press f1 thing too.

is 193mhz good for ddr1 ram,my ddr2 is at 450.is that with a divider too?.

very nice oc tho' alecstarr


----------



## Tatty_One (Jul 19, 2006)

Well Ketxx is most definatly more the expert but I have done a lot of work on my timings to get 7000+ memory bandwidth on Sandra which for value ram aint too bad.

because your memory is slightly underclocked try  to tighten those timings, (I seem to remember somewhere else you saying that you manged to get from 1T to 2T???  (Check my specs form my value ram timings, mine came at stock 2.5-3-3-7 @ 2T)

Firstly, bring the CAS Latency down to 2.5

Ras to Cas take down from 4 to 3

and lastly, Bank Cycle time to 10.

Do one at a time only though in that order (only because I always do them in that order, not saying it is any different).

After each change, if you boot to windows, run 3D Mark 2005 or a demanding game for 10 minutes to make sure she is stable.

If you get all of them booting then test for longer as you did for CPU.  You  may want to run Sandra's memory bandwidth test before and after to see improvements, if you have not got it already, you can download it here:

http://download.guru3d.com/sandra/

(I couldnt find it on TPU's site, may just be my ageing eyes!)  Ohhhh one last think, am not sure of your memory voltage options on your mobo, whatever it is dont have it set on the lowest only because I am told tighter timings work better with slightly higher than stock mem volts....Ketxxx will know more about that than me.

Happy tweaking!


----------



## POGE (Jul 19, 2006)

Up your CPU's voltage to 1.5.  That should help a lot...


----------



## Tatty_One (Jul 19, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> Up your CPU's voltage to 1.5.  That should help a lot...



Yeah I advised him of that but he does not want to go higher, I have mine on 1.55V at its fine and reasonably cool, Alec, I really would give it a go....what's your temps with your overclcok now?


----------



## Alec§taar (Jul 20, 2006)

Tatty_One said:
			
		

> Yeah I advised him of that but he does not want to go higher, I have mine on 1.55V at its fine and reasonably cool, Alec, I really would give it a go....what's your temps with your overclcok now?



I will go higher if I have to, & sounds like I may have to... so, 1.55 works ok, & that said I will give that a shot & push harder still.

* Temps are like 43-45C (about what the temp is outside, lol, 90-100 today & all week)!

This is also after playing 1 hour of Doom III & Quake 4 SMP to test it today, so it all is working well.

*POGE*, I will give that voltage a shot on that voltage...

*AND YES Tatty One* - I made the 2T to 1T transition (first thing I got working right on the memory settings re-tightening stages).

*Tigger69* - thanks man, I am trying (having some fun too while going @ it)...



(Above all - It's amazing me HOW FAR these AMD cpu's will go on the o/c man... once you realize that you just have to "give" a bit in your RAM (and apparently, according to Ketxxx? IF you go for the really "high-end" RAM? You don't even have to do that...))

APK

P.S. => Sorry for the delay in reply also guys - I was "obligated" to drive today to a party my pals & I go to each week "Party-in-the-Plaza" it's called (bands play, beer is there, & women, etc. you know - the 'whole 9 yards')... apk


----------



## POGE (Jul 20, 2006)

I've found that most a64's like 1.5-1.55 the best on good air.  You are lowering your LTD/FSB ratio right?


----------



## Alec§taar (Jul 20, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> I've found that most a64's like 1.5-1.55 the best on good air.  You are lowering your LTD/FSB ratio right?



Again, sorry for delay (fielding emails & other messages from here):

OK, sounds like good solid advice & I will take it, absolutely!



* Pardon my ignorance, but the "LTD" acronym... what's it stand for?

Thanks!

APK

P.S.=> I'm going to reboot & try this now... & above all? Guys - thanks for the help/input/feedback... apk


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Jul 20, 2006)

what about this mem bandwidth tatty one-

http://loader.sc0rian.com/users/public/r3342memx216.jpg


----------



## Alec§taar (Jul 20, 2006)

*Well, for now? I think this is it (maybe a notch up more on CPU, but not much more)*

Well, here it is: What I think I may finalize @!

*CPU-z 1.35 CPU timings data*






*CPU-z 1.35 Memory timings data*








My memory's @ DDR-333, but that's ok... I can't pull this when it's @ DDR-400! Oh well, I will just buy better o/c'ing memory one day I suppose, but have to "make do" w/ what I have for now!

RAM is set to "Auto" on its voltages (I was thinking "push to 2.9V" but, that'd only be if it stopped working or I froze up, etc.)... all committed to BIOS as permanent now too!

I do have the CPU set @ 1.5V in the BIOS now too (though it states 1.456v above, probably rounding off in BIOS is all)... 

ALL seems to be doing FINE! I'd bet I can push farther too, but it's getting TOO close to 2800mhz, & that is TOO much from what I read everywhere... so, I won't risk it!

* Anyhow/anyways - Much appreciated on the help guys! You DO KNOW YOUR STUFF (Ketxxx, POGE, & Tatty One)!

Above all - If you can think of ANY other things for me to "mess with" that will help speed it up more @ the hardware level (beyond these settings so far)? Heck - let those suggestions RIP!

APK

P.S.=> Time to edit my signature, & then test again for 1 hour playing the heaviest 2 games I own (Quake 4 SMP & Doom III)...

OH, and POGE - again, what does the acronym "LTD" stand for? Thanks... apk


----------



## POGE (Jul 20, 2006)

Sorry, I meant LDT... it stans for Lightning Data Transport, which is just snazzy.  HTT is basically the speed your memory controller runs at.  On 939 cpu's it should be around 1000 if possible. LDT is basically your memory controller's multipler.  LDT and HTT came into the picture when A64's were first introduced.  Take a look at your motherboard.  *gasp* NO northbridge!  As you probably already know, your memory controller is integrated into your processor's die.  Because of this, there are 2 main clocks going on, that need to talk to each other.  HTT is what is used to connect them.  FSB x LDT = HTT, just as FSB x CPU Multi = CPU speed.  Running your HTT faster or slower than 1000 doesnt really matter.   It has more than enough bandwidth to carry out it's tasks already.  Your main interest should be trying to make it stable (close to 1000).  HTT is also double pumped after being multipled... hence why you will hear some people refer to it as being 2000 instead of 1000... etc.

Example:
If your FSB is, say 300, your HTT will become 1500.  This is because the default LDT/FSB ratio is 5x(LDT/FSB ratio) * 300(FSB) = 1500(HTT). Since your HTT is at 1500, it can make your computer unstable.  To fix this issue, you lower your LDT/FSB ratio, so its close to 1000.  Raising or lowering your HTT shouldn't hurt your performance.

Note: Notice in CPU-Z it says your HTT is nowhere near 1000.  This is because it hasnt figured in you LDT/FSB ratio.  Since you are at 248, and I'm going to assume you havent touched your LDT settings, that would mean your HTT is at 1240, and that could be making you hit a wall.  Lower your LDT/FSB ratio to 4x if you can, and it will make your HTT hit very close to 1000.  Also, in many cases, you will see people using the term HTT, and FSB interchangably, which is of course, incorrect.

Edit: What are your current load temps at 1.5?  If they are decent, and your processor is stable, you might want to even try 1.6...   Your cooler seems pretty good, it should be able to handle it, if the temps are right.


----------



## Alec§taar (Jul 20, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> Sorry, I meant LDT... it stans for Lightning Data Transport, which is just snazzy.



"S'awright" (sheet happens, I misspell too)



			
				POGE said:
			
		

> HTT is basically the speed your memory controller runs at.  On 939 cpu's it should be around 1000 if possible. LTD is basically your memory controller's multipler. FSB x LTD = HTT, just as FSB x Multi = CPU speed.  Running your HTT faster or slower than 1000 doesnt really matter.   It has more than enough bandwidth to carry out it's tasks already.  Your main interest should be trying to make it stable (close to 1000).



I am NOT sure if my BIOS has such an option to be blunt about it (I saw no refs to LDT in there... but, I will look again & check it out with a "Fine Tooth Comb" etc. looking for it).



			
				POGE said:
			
		

> Example:
> If your FSB is, say 300, your HTT will become 1500.  This is because the default LDT/FSB ratio is 5x * LDT/FSB ratio* 300 *FSB* = 1500 *HTT*. Since your HTT is at 1500, it can make your computer unstable.  To fix this issue, you lower your LDT/FSB ratio, so its close to 1000.  Raising or lowering your HTT shouldn't hurt your performance.
> 
> Note: Notice in CPU-Z it says your HTT is nowhere near 1000.  This is because it hasnt figured in you LDT/FSB ratio.  Since you are at 248, and I'm going to assume you havent touched your LDT settings, that would mean your HTT is at 1240, and that could be making you hit a wall.  Lower your LDT/FSB ratio to 4x if you can, and it will make your HTT hit very close to 1000.



Ok, cool (excellent explain & example by the by):

See, if anything's going to lend me a "clue" as to what the analog is to LDT in my BIOS? It's stuff like that (I will do the math & just "reason it out" via logical short-circuit evaluation (whatever makes the most sense, lol))

APK

P.S.=> BUT FIRST? Off to run those tests in the games I mention above... see ya guys, & thank you very much (you guys are A-OK in my book)... apk


----------



## POGE (Jul 20, 2006)

This is what your LTD *edit: I MEAN LDT DAMMIT * is refered to in your bios... BTW read my edit to my first post... more infos.


----------



## Alec§taar (Jul 20, 2006)

*I'm @ 4x POGE because of o/c directions I used (down from 5)...*

See my subject-line/title above: Should I move it DOWN to 3?

(I used "4", because that's EXACTLY what I set it to that per directions I found for o/c'ing the CPU itself right off the bat & its default is 5 iirc)



* Off we go guys to test the heck outta it on the "heaviest" games I own for about an hour or two (haven't played them in a LONG time other than earlier today testing), & see how they run...

Again - Thank you guys, VERY MUCH!

(Because it's the thought that counts!)

APK

P.S.=> I think it's going to go well, because it's running like a dream in Windows itself, no anomalies/glitches yet, & earlier the games REALLY FLEW (put it this way - NOW? I know why serious gamers go after o/c'ing the way they do... it makes a good difference!)... apk


----------



## POGE (Jul 20, 2006)

4 is good.  No need to set to 3.  I'm guessing your mhz bottleneck now is actually your CPU *cough more volts*... your memory is at comfortable speeds and your HTT and LTD are set up right.  I would try 1.55 volts if 1.5 works fine.


----------



## Alec§taar (Jul 20, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> 4 is good.  No need to set to 3.  What speed is your memory running at at this overclock?



Whatever CPU-z says above in the screenies I took earlier... DDR-333 by the by!

It's DDR-400, but if I try it with THAT set? No dice... freezes, lockups, etc!

(Do you need another tab from it "screenshotted"? See here (edit to place them here))

*CPU-z 1.35 CPU timings data*






*CPU-z 1.35 Memory timings data*








* Let me know!

APK


----------



## POGE (Jul 20, 2006)

Yeah, I just saw that screenshot lol.  Read my edit.   Also, I have some more tweaks for sucking every last mhz out of your cpu... they are mostly hardware level though... let me know if your interested.  BTW, the reason your memory wont run at ddr400, it your FSB is being clocked at 248mhz... thus when you tell your motherboard to run it at DDR400 (2x 200mhz)... it would actually be running closer to DDR500.  When you run it at DDR333 though, it runs closer to the DDR400 speeds you desire. (hence the 190 and some odd mhz, instead of the 166mhz that DDR333 usually runs at).


----------



## Alec§taar (Jul 20, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> Yeah, I just saw that screenshot lol.  Read my edit.



COOL!

LOL, you're like me - you think later & edit it for detail!

(Damn baudrate of my typing is JUST NOT FAST ENOUGH - needs o/c!)



			
				POGE said:
			
		

> Also, I have some more tweaks for sucking every last mhz out of your cpu... they are mostly hardware level though... let me know if your interested.



I have 1.5 & 1.6 in my BIOS, & that's it... no "shades of gray" values beyond 1 decimal place are present!





			
				POGE said:
			
		

> BTW, the reason your memory wont run at ddr400, it your FSB is being clocked at 248mhz... thus when you tell your motherboard to run it at DDR400 (2x 200mhz)... it would actually be running closer to DDR500.  When you run it at DDR333 though, it runs closer to the DDR400 speeds you desire. (hence the 190 and some odd mhz, instead of the 166mhz that DDR333 usually runs at).



Man - this is great!

It's just like a "crash-course" in overclocking... you're not only telling me what to do, but why & WHY it is, the way it is... I like that!

Thanks man, seriously. You've saved me a TON of time researching this, & given me understanding - giving me a fishing pole & teaching me how to fish, rather than fishing the fish FOR ME!

* ABOVE ALL? Ha... It's nice to know that I am getting what my RAM is meant for, DDR-400 basically if I understood you correctly, but in a "sneaky" kind of way!

APK

P.S.=> And, SURE! I am always up for "more know-how/tips/tricks/techniques" absolutely, send them my way... apk


----------



## POGE (Jul 20, 2006)

Ok... more tricks.  BTW read my other edits, LOL.  Your replying before I get my edits in...  Your overclock may be held back by temparatures... here are some ways to tame them that I have discovered.

On your heatsink, where the fan meets the heatsink, there is a "dead spot" where the center of the fan is.  Make yourself a shim out of cardboard that will elevate the fan about an inch away from the heatsink itself... this will eliminate the dead spot.  You should be able to get a few degree's this way.  Another thing you can do, is lap your IHS, and heatsink, or even better, remove your IHS all together.  If you dont feel comfortable running your CPU naked, you can remove the ihs, lap the inside, and replace the stock paste with AS5... this should also give you a temperature drop.  If any of this is unclear let me know...

-Poge


----------



## Alec§taar (Jul 20, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> Ok... more tricks.  BTW read my other edits, LOL.  Your replying before I get my edits in...



I caught 'em, & edited them into MY post reply... lol!



			
				POGE said:
			
		

> Your overclock may be held back by temparatures... here are some ways to tame them that I have discovered.



Heck, it's WHY I o/c'd this week (heatwave, massive one, 48 states over 90-100F)... but, I see you are stateside too, you must know what I mean!

I did the o/c in the heat to see what it could take in such conditions... this way, I KNOW they will be even better in cold weather (if I wish, but I think near 2800mhz is enough). If it holds stable now, and it looks like it is and is going to keep this way?

Heck - I'm set & will leave it be most likely!



			
				POGE said:
			
		

> On your heatsink, where the fan meets the heatsink, there is a "dead spot" where the center of the fan is.  Make yourself a shim out of cardboard that will elevate the fan about an inch away from the heatsink itself... this will eliminate the dead spot.  You should be able to get a few degree's this way.  Another thing you can do, is lap your IHS, and heatsink, or even better, remove your IHS all together.  If you dont feel comfortable running your CPU naked, you can remove the ihs, lap the inside, and replace the stock paste with AS5... this should also give you a temperature drop.  If any of this is unclear let me know...-Poge



I use Arctic Silver III (had a tube of it laying around for AGES) & mounted it with it, works pretty good!

Is Arctic Silver V better?

Lapping the heatsink I am going to avoid... I don't have a lathe or anything that will do it precisely enough imo.

The "deadspot" thing though... that I can work w/ & possibly use: Thanks for that tip!

APK


----------



## POGE (Jul 20, 2006)

Yes, AS5 is better.  But it is only slightly better than AS3, and it costs about twice as much, and you only get about a degree of gain.  To some its worth it, to some its a waste of money.  I find that the best buy is to purchase off brand AS5.  AS5 is silver based, so just look for some other silver based compound.  You pay a lot for the Arctic Silver brand name.

Edit: Yes... the heatwave has been hellish.  Its even worse if your 16 and your dad makes you mow the lawn.


----------



## Alec§taar (Jul 20, 2006)

*IT WORKS! Doomsday Machine is o/c complete & STABLE!!!*

Sorry for delay, was testing it out playing Quake 4 SMP!



			
				POGE said:
			
		

> Yes, AS5 is better.  But it is only slightly better than AS3, and it costs about twice as much, and you only get about a degree of gain.  To some its worth it, to some its a waste of money.  I find that the best buy is to purchase off brand AS5.  AS5 is silver based, so just look for some other silver based compound.  You pay a lot for the Arctic Silver brand name.



Ok then, seems I will do alright on what I have in Arctic Silver III then. Still, thanks for the tip on Arctic Silver V being a bit better... eventually, I will have to buy it again, probably next system I own, because not much is left & I had to "mash it around" to get it nice again (it was 3-3.5 yrs. prior to this system when I used it last).



			
				POGE said:
			
		

> Edit: Yes... the heatwave has been hellish.  Its even worse if your 16 and your dad makes you mow the lawn.



Heh, I did mine today & even though I waited until around 6-7 p.m.?

Still hot... I am bushed! I can't believe I went out after that, but I owed my pals a ride today to a party, so, there tis...



* Well, looks like the "Doomsday Machine" is complete @ last... and, @ near 2800mhz & VERY NEAR DDR-400 memory rates!

Thanks all!

(Especially Ketxxx, POGE, KJ9Y, & anybody else that gave me tips & such to go @ this right!)

APK

P.S.=> Just got done w/ about 30-35 minutes of Quake 4 SMP, ran like a dream (this is STABLE in this heat no less, so I am a happy guy!)... apk


----------



## POGE (Jul 20, 2006)

Try 1.6 volts... you know you want too... 

Edit: BTW read your PM's.


----------



## Alec§taar (Jul 20, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> Try 1.6 volts... you know you want too...



Naw... everyone seems to say, "NO NO" to that, & I tend to believe it. Maybe when its "Winter Time" but, certainly not now!



			
				POGE said:
			
		

> Edit: BTW read your PM's.



Yea, I messed up too in them to you - that mobo? It was NOT a "Tyan Tomcat" on the system you asked me about (my older duallie one, messy interior one w/ the "nutz" GeForce 4 Ti4600 mod I did)... 

The mobo on it IS an Abit VP-6!



APK

P.S.=> I had one based on a Tyan Tomcat IV years ago though... was SMP also - but Pentium 1 233mmx iirc... 

Both are gone now, & STILL RUNNING TO THIS DAY, in a buddy's business for him as server units!

I mix them up sometime...

All that are left of them here are memories & a couple photographs is all... apk


----------



## POGE (Jul 20, 2006)

Read your PM's now... I was talking about a PM I sent you you about 20 minutes ago...


----------



## Alec§taar (Jul 20, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> Read your PM's now... I was talking about a PM I sent you you about 20 minutes ago...



Sure, will do!



APK


----------



## POGE (Jul 20, 2006)

I just noticed something... your competely wasting a multiplier! Up it up to 12x and lower your FSB ASAP!  At 12x and the lower FSB your cpu will run at the same speed, but it may be able to run your memory without putting it on a divider (no DDR333 crap).   Try 12x multi and 225 FSB, with the memory at DDR400.  This will put your CPU at 2.7ghz flat and your Ram at DDR450.


----------



## Steevo (Jul 20, 2006)

Try 1.6 !!!

I have mine at 1.65 ATM and the temp is 106 F with ambiant case temp of 102F


No load = little heat. This will at least tell you if it is needing more power!


----------



## Alec§taar (Jul 20, 2006)

Steevo said:
			
		

> Try 1.6 !!!
> 
> I have mine at 1.65 ATM and the temp is 106 F with ambiant case temp of 102F
> 
> No load = little heat. This will at least tell you if it is needing more power!



Sure, I could try it... if you guys say it works? 

I believe you, because thusfar??

*CPU-z 1.35 CPU timings data*






*CPU-z 1.35 Memory timings data*






Everything has, (as you can see in the screenshots) to the letter!

*2800mhz (almost) & DDR-400 rates in memory clock timing chain & speeds (almost) AND RUNNING ROCK-SOLID STABLE on a 328mhz overdriven gain*

I can't ask for much better, & I can assure you I can't complain, you know?

(So, I trust ya!)



			
				POGE said:
			
		

> I just noticed something... your competely wasting a multiplier! Up it up to 12x and lower your FSB ASAP!  At 12x and the lower FSB your cpu will run at the same speed, but it may be able to run your memory without putting it on a divider (no DDR333 crap).   Try 12x multi and 225 FSB, with the memory at DDR400.  This will put your CPU at 2.7ghz flat and your Ram at DDR450.



Well, I lowered it on the advice Tatty One gave me, & it worked out @ 11x... 

Originally, I had it set to 12x before & could not push as well on memory stuff (earlier in this thread in fact & others), but, what I had was was NOT QUITE the mixture you're saying to use!

I had/used a 216 FSB is why iirc. 

In fact, screenshots earlier in this thread SHOULD evidence that: Same CPU-z stuff & iirc, even A64 Tweaker data... 

Those alone may help you understand better, what I mean here!

(Now, here is the "touchy/complex" part of CPU o/c's imo, thusfar - the possibles/permutations involved - time consuming, but worth doing & learning imo!)

I will give this a go tomorrow @ some point though man... I am pretty beat today!

(Cut grass today, & went out partying w/ some pals ontop of workday... &, I.M. FRIED!)



* Still, I will give that a go & report back tomorrow though... I just gotta relax & sleep now!

APK

P.S.=> See ya, & again, guys: THANKS MUCH! This worked out great thusfar... I will try more tomorrow, returning to the 12x multiplier, & greater than the 216mhz FSB I was initially using, & try to use 225mhz x 12 & 1.6V on CPU instead! apk


----------



## POGE (Jul 20, 2006)

Ok cool. See how high you can get with 1.6 on the settings you have now first though, I'm interested.


----------



## Tatty_One (Jul 20, 2006)

tigger69 said:
			
		

> what about this mem bandwidth tatty one-
> 
> http://loader.sc0rian.com/users/public/r3342memx216.jpg



Looks good but that only tells part of the story, run Sandra bandwidth test...its more thorough and let me know the results.


----------



## Tatty_One (Jul 20, 2006)

And I cant go any higher than 1.55V on my mobo.....:shadedshu but my temps are good so 2.8gig is my limit but hey.....dont it make you wish Alec you had spent a lot less and got the 4200 Manchester x2!!!!!


----------



## Alec§taar (Jul 20, 2006)

Tatty_One said:
			
		

> And I cant go any higher than 1.55V on my mobo.....:shadedshu but my temps are good so 2.8gig is my limit but hey.....dont it make you wish Alec you had spent a lot less and got the 4200 Manchester x2!!!!!



Nope: I am a HUGE fan of the dual 1mb cache per core (2mb total)...



* Large L2 caches make HUGE diff.'s in things like Folding@Home/Seti & even gaming, plus other apps as well that are memory-bound & do not flow their datasets over 1mb per.

PLUS?

*CPU-z 1.35 CPU timings data*






*CPU-z 1.35 Memory timings data*






*2800mhz (almost) & DDR-400 rates in memory clock timing chain & speeds (almost) AND RUNNING ROCK-SOLID STABLE on a 328mhz overdriven gain!*

(Far better than the ASUS BIOS WIZARD w/ it's 3-5-8-10% overdriven presets gave me, this for sure, & stable (unlike that "wizard's" locking me up upon entering Windows @ 10% overdrive!))

I can't ask for much better & you guys were a HUGE help to me (especially memory-oriented tightenings of the memory timing chain & dividers etc. et al via yourself & Ketxxx especially) & my teachers... 

So now, I too, know the way of it & because of POGE? I actually FULLY understand it now!

I can assure you I can't complain, you know? 

(This AMD Athlon64 x2 4800+ is overclocking like a dream, & running stable as if it was not 1 bit o/c'd)... 

* Cool too (45-47C in BIOS), surprising, even after gaming for 1 hour during tests last nite w/ Quake 4 SMP &/or Doom III...

APK

P.S.=> I had reasons for spending the extra money - larger L2 caches! apk


----------



## Tatty_One (Jul 20, 2006)

Alec, I beg to differ on one point, the gaming benefit between 1meg and 512K is about 2%  across the board, thats not HUGE....its tiny, I can show you loads of reviews that support that.


----------



## Alec§taar (Jul 20, 2006)

Tatty_One said:
			
		

> Alec, I beg to differ on one point, the gaming benefit between 1meg and 512K is about 2%  across the board, thats not HUGE....its tiny, I can show you loads of reviews that support that.



OH, I agree about the gaming, & do NOT doubt it... however, gaming's not all I do on a system either.

Still, the point on superior performance via larger L2 cache, even in gaming, is there & every bit matters! 

I know it makes a difference in memory intensive applications & things like F@H & SETI though...

http://fah-web.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/main.py?qtype=teampage&teamnum=50711

(E.G.-> If you note our team here for F@H above in the URL? My single system is outracing others using 2-3 machines (I_am_Mustang_Man iirc, runs 2 diff. rigs doing this) & HOT on the tail of a person (W2hCYK 46 units, & I am @ 45 now, 1 behind ONLY) running up to 6 @ once doing that project)

*EDIT PART (next day):* Heh, a few hours later? I am showing 64 units... odd! TOO BIG OF A JUMP imo, & I am worried this is adversely affecting my mem's accuracy! I.E.-> HOW ON EARTH DID I JUST JUMP IN ONLY 12 HOURS, UP TO 64 units from 45?

Plus, I figure it THIS way:

I added onto that 2% that a large L2 cache (far faster response than system RAM, because connected DIRECT to CPU internal "bus" & faster memory period by FAR no less, probably SRAM/TagRam (sub 10ns iirc) speeds or better) gives you by another 15-20% in:

*A.) System tweaks/tunings* (reg hacks, services trimmings, etc. & I go a LOT farther than DeathStar's guide here: You can see how much so, in the link I put up in that sticky thread in the software section if you wish (for BOTH system speed & security online))

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=11119

#6 post on first page... 

Seriously - DO give it a look, you'll like it!

(It may be some "payback" for your guys' help here & instruction - you're GREAT teachers for me in THIS capacity, I won't deny that @ all: MUCHO gracias guys, I can't state it any plainer).

*B.) In o/c'd vidcard* (see sig below)

That all adds up to appreciable gains with the CPU o/c above!

(Believe me - I can see/feel a diff. in Quake 4 SMP & Doom III now, fairly bigtime... & now? I know WHY serious gamers go for overclocks like mad, finally! We beat the HECK outta the BIOS wizard the ASUS A8N-SLI Premium mobo I have gives me)



I'd bet (and I think POGE does too, especially considering I did this in a massive heatwave the states are being hit by this summer) that I can exceed that o/c above!

Especially when it gets colder around here in the Winter... but, that has to wait.

APK

P.S.=> IMO, every bit helps - & is worth it (up to a point financially, I am a BIG fan of "you get what you pay for") & since the 4800+ runs @ a higher rate as-is, initially (2.4ghz) than the lower-end AMD cpu's do (2.2ghz)?

I have a shot @ higher o/c's period, just because it is built to handle that clockrate of 2.4ghz off the bat (200mhz advantage/better tolerance right away).

Plus, I think that all those hacks to the system software-side + hardware overclocks & tuning adds up to a SUM that is greater than the whole of its parts & makes a diff in that they actually begin to "compliment" one another for even MORE gain than they yield, individually... 

LOL, like a mustache or rope! Composed of TINY individual strands, but together? Unreal cooperation for creating a larger, unified effect... apk


----------



## POGE (Jul 20, 2006)

Tried 1.6 yet?


----------



## Alec§taar (Jul 20, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> Tried 1.6 yet?



No, not yet... tackling other "Fish to Fry" right now, you know how it goes!

Slightly larger ones!

(Not a GOOD day for me on a personal note: I had to listen to familial hassles & straighten out a conflict & old disagreement, plus money related duties... they are #1, crass as that may sound on the money end, & family is #1 truly).

*NOTE TO YOU, I AM SOMEWHAT CONCERNED (from my post above, a quote & edit):*

===================================================================

"I know it makes a difference in memory intensive applications & things like F@H & SETI though...

http://fah-web.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/main.py?qtype=teampage&teamnum=50711

(E.G.-> If you note our team here for F@H above in the URL? My single system is outracing others using 2-3 machines (I_am_Mustang_Man iirc, runs 2 diff. rigs doing this) & HOT on the tail of a person (W2hCYK 46 units, & I am @ 45 now, 1 behind ONLY) running up to 6 @ once doing that project)"

===================================================================

(That was last night... around the time of our last postings to one another)

The reason I am somewhat concerned is that a few hours later (today in response to you now)? 

I am showing 64 units... odd!  EDIT PART - yea, way odd - not even 1 hr. later, it's showing 67 units now...

TOO BIG OF A JUMP imo, & something might be wrong!

So, I am worried this is adversely affecting my mem's accuracy! I.E.-> HOW ON EARTH DID I JUST JUMP IN ONLY 12 HOURS, UP TO 64 units from 45?

I don't have enough machines OR CPU power to pull off 20 units in 1 day... even w/ this overclocks increases.

*QUESTION:* To test potential ram inaccuracies due to o/c? Use something like SuperPI, or can you suggest a BETTER tool? Thanks!



All else seems fine though, other than THAT!

*************

Still, on 1.6V? Not that it isn't something I won't try, I will!

(As it cannot hurt if I don't try to "COOK" my CPU pushing it around too hard & heating it up too much, right? IIRC, CPU's today have "heat brakes" in them anyhow... will stall out before cooking totally)

AND, I just redo it again if it messes up... no biggie, just time-consuming (to redo the BIOS stuff is all).

APK

P.S.=> E.G.-> When I did that first o/c attempts on my own, w/out experienced guidance on the RAM tightens? 

Believe-it-or not, I actually "Blew my BIOS settings" back to default somehow when I rebooted after that... odd, I know (but I had workarounds & noted them in this thread earlier)!

(& lol, it actually LOCKED ME UP during the POST test, & had artifacts on the screen (only time I was "spooked" actually during this whole process))... apk


----------



## Alec§taar (Jul 20, 2006)

POGE:

1.6V on CPU now, seems stable so far (about 45 min., normal use posting here, emailing etc.)... 1.6V makes me a BIT leery though, is this OK??

I may need to monitor temps while in Windows, rather than rebooting & using BIOS hardware monitor type stuff... it might cool off enough by then? Oh, lol, I dunno!

ANYHOW:

I stepped back though on the mhz  (left mult. @ 11 too) used in the o/c equation though, since I raised the volts like that...

Currently @ 247mhz x 11 = 2723.3mhz total o/c now

Also, I changed from LDT (HyperTransport Frequency - screenshot you took is like mine) of 3 to 4 as well!

It seems stable enough this way, thusfar, w/ those changes!

Still, I have to ask the experienced here, as I do not feel like "Blowing my CPU" or memory controller, etc. (RAM not SO concerned about, as I could use faster RAM, lol, & a GOOD excuse to do that!)

So, all that said?

I suspect a problem!

See above (in regards to F@H) or, in short, here:

Not "critical" but spitting out possible memory errs etc. (one instance of F@H here was "hung up" when I turned them BOTH off & reset my speeds downwards. It may be a F@H "glitch", they happen, but never has before in 45 units done - suddenly, today? I am @ 67 units last I looked & no way this o/c sped me up enough to pop out 20 units in 1 day, no way).



* Need to know what tool/program to use to "Ferret-Out" potential memory errs due to "over-pushing" my o/c or RAM!

Thanks POGE... or others!

APK

P.S.=> Well, 5-6 hours later, it appears to NOT be affecting F@H that way anymore... perhaps it was just a "glitch" in F@H itself, or my NOT running the CPU @ 1.6V was it? Asking advice... apk


----------



## POGE (Jul 21, 2006)

Download Memtest86, its a great memory stability testing program.  For CPU stability testing I recommend Prime95 After that, keep lowering your FSB until it passes a full Memtest86 test.  Then, if your CPU speed will probably have been reduced greatly because of the lower fsb, you can pop the cpu multi up to 12x to make your cpu run faster, while keeping your memory at the stable speed.

Note: This is only if your problem is your memory.  I myself find this somewhat unlikely, since your already running it UNDER the rated speeds... but we will see.  IMO its more likely a cpu stability issue.  I would run Prime95 for a while to see if its your CPU thats causing the issue.  If it doesnt pass the test, I'm pretty sure ite your CPU and not your memory.  If this ends up to be true, youll want to nake your multiplier down another notch to 10x, leaving your mem the way it is, and slowing your CPU down a little.


----------



## Alec§taar (Jul 21, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> Download Memtest86.



Will do!



* So far, it's been "Good", for HOURS now... but, that didn't show up (F@H lunacy, lol, 20 units in 1 day - impossible) until hours after you & I signed out last nite!

This looks like THE THING to test @ this point, just to be sure (who'd think F@H would be a good memory test, eh?)

Anyhow - question: HOW LONG DO YOU HAVE TO RUN IT?

(In other words, is this one of those "burn-in" type tools that you have to run & run, & RUN forever, or does it stop on its own?)

Thanks!

APK

P.S.=> Did a look up on it, apparently, it is somekind of bootup disk floppy test, could be DOS, could be Linux driven, but now I see the deal on it (disregard questions, & thanks)... apk


----------



## Alec§taar (Jul 21, 2006)

Guys, gonna post this again on next page!

Damn page breaks... I can't let this get buried & all that!



(Tatty One, message to you in it, see next page - thank you!)

APK


----------



## demonbrawn (Jul 21, 2006)

I am excited to see your progress! I can't wait until I get all my mod pieces in this weekend so I can finally put my system back together and try to start overclocking again. This entire thread is a great ground-breaker for newbies like me, especially ones w/x2 CPUs. 

BTW: I don't know if you were being sarcastic or not, but just in case, "manyana" is actually spelled manan, just with a little "~" over the 1st "n." 

Anyway, good luck on further testing.


----------



## Alec§taar (Jul 21, 2006)

*ON EXCITED? Hey, me too... others can gain by it w/ X2's too though, so worth it!*

I am a "NOOB" @ this level of pursuit in it, this is certain!

I am a BIT spooked @ doing this in the HOT weather we have been having worldwide, but I can think of NO BETTER "Stress Test"... if it holds now, & all is stable after tests POGE & others suggested here?

WELL, then I know it went well! Of course, I am a WEE bit afraid of wrecking my rig, but nobody "twisted my arm" to risk this (that I want to say to cover your butts, more than mine etc.)

I am getting better & better @ it though!

Especially w/ help from these guys (Tatty One, Ketxxx, & POGE especially (he not only told me what to do, but why (mechanics & logic of it, best thing since sliced bread, gave me the fishing pole & taught me the MOST on fishing so far with it)).

Not "Shorting" the other 2 guys either, but maybe I just understood him better, or he was just more patient? I don't know, but either way??

SHE'S WORKING & FAR FASTER THAN I EXPECTED/HOPED FOR (2.6 was all I wanted, I am pushing up near 2800 at best o/c thusfar)

APK

P.S.=> By Saturday, I think I'll have "nailed down" where I want to be, & in high ambient temps... but, have to test like mad! 

Makes you nuts!

IMO, this is NOT easy/simple @ this level of it, especially because of the damn permutations/possibles involved not only in CPU stuff, but memory too (Ketxxx has been extremely helpful here, as has POGE)... & it actually has tired me out!

*Oh, on "Manyana":*

I don't know how it was spelled, so... I "hooked on phonic'd" it, lol!

Thanks for info., that way in the future? LOL, I don't look stupid if I use it again! apk


----------



## Alec§taar (Jul 21, 2006)

*Poge &/or Tatty One, Please Read!*



			
				Tatty_One said:
			
		

> Looks good but that only tells part of the story, run Sandra bandwidth test...its more thorough and let me know the results.



Sorry for missing this too man... 

* I will do that, once I "stress test" the memory & find out if THAT was my hassle with F@H noted above... 

If not, I will try what others suggested in:

1.) POGE - 225FSBx12Mult @ 1.6V (& possible DDR-400 use again, NOT "fudge" DDR3 divider stuff)

2.) Your ideas...



* I'll tell you all 1 thing though, for sure - this is maddening! Takes time, effort, & possible screwups in running programs, but in the end? WORTH IT imo, love speed/performance is why!

APK

P.S.=> Anyhow/anyways: Again, though, guys... I am fried tired! Gotta rest... see ya "manyana"... 

Tomorrow, I'm going to run Prime95, SuperPI, & MemTest86, & see what is what on their results!

(Doing that while I sleep - EDIT PART, I did, it's solid - no problems!) if F@H screws up again on my currrent O/C reset (backed off some)...

*OH, BY THE WAY - W2hCYK,* one of my F@H teammembers here turned me onto something, I may NOT have been "unstable", check it:

For F@H - I use the "FORCEASM" switch on the commandline/consolemode/tty/DOS mode version!

(& it WARNS AGAINST USING IT ON AN "o/c'd" rig, lol... man! Will wonders NEVER cease! I knew that, but disregarded it/blew it off, before I was doing o/c's... now, lol, it may be biting me in the you-know-what here, misleading me!)

Still, going to run it overnite w/ -forceasm, & see "what's-what" as it is now:

*A.)* Slowed down a tad to 2723mhz <- 2728mhz

*B.)* Upped to 1.6v on CPU (per Steevo & Ketxxx (+ Tatty One also) suggestion(s))

*C.)* HyperTransport Frequency/LDT @ 4x now, up from 3x!

(Guys, that last one - that is yet another one I need to know if "Good" or "Bad", like I asked Tatty One about in 1t vs. 2t above)... apk


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## POGE (Jul 22, 2006)

Now that I've tought you how to overclock, teach me how to code.


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## Tatty_One (Jul 22, 2006)

And did u get my message!


----------



## Alec§taar (Jul 22, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> Now that I've tought you how to overclock, teach me how to code.



You already know how to, this much I know (albeit using diff. toolsets than I do, & that is enough)...

Principals are principals, are principals in ANY language you use - you know the questions to ask in other tools because of the languages/toolsets you've used before... you just have to find analogs via syntax & codeblocks in them is all!

Heck, for instance/example:

By knowing the questions already?

E.G.-> I know how to open a file in VB, read/write it, & close it (a must typically)... well, now that I am using C++ or Delphi (examples), how do I do it there?

You're 50% of the way there.

I.E.-> I (right now) can & have worked w/ 10 languages on computers, on any platform pretty much, & that's how I think of it... 

Fact is, I had to jump into .NET that way, & can work w/ it easily enough now!

All imo, because I knew the analogs (some of which did NOT work the same way, you cannot think "functionally" (procedural) in it, you HAVE to think "object oriented" in it, & my roots? Procedural & before that, drop-down OLD-SCHOOL programming).

Coming from a C background years before, going in to C++? Same thing happened to me, I had to "learn to think a different way" & it was HARD to do imo! At least initially!

I still tend to be more procedural in nature in my coding (sometimes, objects backfire too, & in .NET it shows in speed (lack vs. C/C++ & Delphi for instance) & also manifests itself in bloat!

Too much so imo (& not that it's an interpreted language via CLR, another slowdown) even STRINGS are objects & I don't need an object to do a "hello world" level proggie imo. For big projects they are great for maintainability & also CLR is great for secure code, trade off.

I am sure you do as well and can & have done the SAME thing & run into the same conclusion... & if not? You will.

Language doesn't matter, & neither does syntax... principals of design, do, & w/ imo, little variance between languages.

APK

P.S.=> Coding's work @ times... there isn't always a "canned solution" out there OR code you can 'bite off of' because for instance, in business MIS/IS/IT databasing? Nobodies' data is the same 2x generally, or their business process - you ADAPT to it! apk


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## Alec§taar (Jul 22, 2006)

Tatty_One said:
			
		

> And did u get my message!



Got it!



* Thanks!

APK

P.S.=> *Fellas (ALL): 2 last questions* (one I asked above, not answered & 1 new one):


1.) Why is it "so important" to not sacrifice a multiplier (e.g.-> Going from 11x to 12x for instance) in your eyes, if dividers can grab you back 99% of a RAM's rate via FSB pickups (is this to avoid overheats?)

&

2.) LDT HyperTransport rates which default @ 5x initially - I have managed to go from a 3x HT change up to 4x... is this desirable?

Thanks...

Cuz once I know the principal to achieve here? I will go for a 225fsbx12 multiplier w/ a 4x HyperTransport (LDT) setup & see how it goes on 1.6v & possibly even going DDR-400 here (I don't expect "success" on the DDR-400 part though)... apk


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## Tatty_One (Jul 23, 2006)

I think the general rule always seems to be get your overclock using the highest possible multiplier in order to keep the FSB as low as possible so you have less issues such as memory speeds, HTT etc etc.

Some say they have found their systems run more stable with an overclock with a lower multiplier and higher FSB.....in my personal expereince that has never been the case, always the opposite but my expereince has only been with an xp3000 Barton, athlon 64 3200 venice and my current Manchester Dual Core.

And yes, as a rule of thumb, the higher the FSB the more the heat but I think to a cetain extent the overall speed mainly determines that wether it be 2.8gig at 10 x 280 or at 11 x 254.

Oh and on the HTT multiplier/speed, yes the higher the better providing it's stable but there is almost no performance difference.


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## Alec§taar (Jul 23, 2006)

Cool!

Ok then, tomorrow I will be "unavailable" (going to N.Y. City) for most of the day, & do not expect to be back until VERY late or the next day.

Tonite, I've committed myself to going to a "blues festival" w/ my neighbor & #1 chess opponent (220+ games straight (MOSTLY, neck & neck) but he has beaten me 10/1 our last 11 games so, part of a bet on our last game (few minutes ago in fact) was for him to win to get me to go to a blues concert to tune me into it).

So again - this 225 fsb x 12 mult POGE suggested (@ 1.6v on CPU) will have to wait for a day or two, but... 

You can "bank on it" that I will try it!

As is, so far, @ 2723.2mhz (via 247.6 FSB X 11 multipler) I am running 100% stable & even F@H hasn't screwed up (still using -forceasm switch too)... 

Whereas pushing the LITTLE BIT MORE on a higher FSB backfired on me, to some extent, in 1 app: F@H!

(That imo, made F@H do its little dance on me a few days back noted above & in the F@H thread, ruining my SCORE measure... was worth it really, as a good stability test in lieu of Prime95/SuperPrime, SuperPI, & MemTest86 etc.).

Until then? I have to wait & then get back to you guys with results on the test of 225fsb x 12 mult., but I will try it & let ya know!

APK

P.S.=> Where are my manners? Thanks for the quick feedback Tatty One... apk


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## POGE (Jul 23, 2006)

Alec§taar said:
			
		

> Got it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1. "Sacrificing" a multiplier isn't always a bad thing, but it was in your case when you were running your memory on a divider.  Instead of running it on a divider you could simply lower the FSB and raise your CPU multi, getting the same speed CPU and slowing down your ram enough where it could run without a divider.  This doesnt always work, but thats what I was thinking about when I told you to raise your multi.  This is why I want you to try 12x.  Running your memory on a divider is always slower than running your memory 1:1.

2.  4x should be fine for you, since you arent running your FSB above 250... 4 x 250 = 1000, which is what you are aiming for.   Here is a chart of what you should set your LDT Multi to relative to your FSB.

FSB.........LDT
000-200...5x
201-250...4x
251-333...3x
334-500...2x
500-999...1x

Any more questions, just ask.

Now, my turn. 

About the programming...  you somehow avoided telling me anything on HOW to actually program in your last responce?   Something like a howto guide on C++...  and how do I make a front end for my programs?

PS:  Take a look at my avatar code, I think you might be interested.  (see link in my sig)


----------



## Alec§taar (Jul 23, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> 1. "Sacrificing" a multiplier isn't always a bad thing, but it was in your case when you were running your memory on a divider.  Instead of running it on a divider you could simply lower the FSB and raise your CPU multi, getting the same speed CPU and slowing down your ram enough where it could run without a divider.  This doesnt always work, but thats what I was thinking about when I told you to raise your multi.  This is why I want you to try 12x.  Running your memory on a divider is always slower than running your memory 1:1.
> 
> 2.  4x should be fine for you, since you arent running your FSB above 250... 4 x 250 = 1000, which is what you are aiming for.   Here is a chart of what you should set your LDT Multi to relative to your FSB.
> 
> ...



Ah... thanks man! You guys have been invaluable, & I have had SEVERAL of you to refer to & check your references to me, against one another's as well for dual or more verifications/2nd doctor's opinions.



			
				POGE said:
			
		

> Now, my turn.
> 
> About the programming...  you somehow avoided telling me anything on HOW to actually program in your last responce?   Something like a howto guide on C++...  and how do I make a front end for my programs?



Well, afaik? You told me you're a JAVA/javascript man, indirectly (because of your chat program running in browsers here, neat stuff imo & really does add a nice featureset to a forums)... now, I have heard tell of compiled java that has front-end building tools, but I am NOT aware of them, as I am not "into" JAVA (& 'muddle my way' thru javascript).

For you? C++ is the way, you'll take to it like a duck to water... imo @ least. Big market for it still, & you can program ANYWHERE using it, provided you don't use CPU family specific calls & all that!

I use Borland C++ Builder 6.0 here, when I am FORCED to do C++... & it is NOT my fav tool/language to use, not by a longshot (Delphi & VB6 are, w/ emphasis on the former... next would be VB.NET & ASP.NET).

In my DOS/UNIX days, C was my fav, until I hit Windows... doing a Windows program in MSVC++ 2.0 was the LAST time I used it, & its "resource studio" for building interfaces, did not like it!

Borland C++ Builder though, by way of comparison:  It's as easy as it gets imo, especially for interface building... 

Now, from what I hear (but I don't use it in Visual Studio, I use VB.NET or ASP.NET to talk to the CLR (common-language runtime)) Visual C# can do interfaces with ease, but again: Not a user of it myself.



			
				POGE said:
			
		

> PS:  Take a look at my avatar code, I think you might be interested.  (see link in my sig)



Ah, lol, nope... you're WAY too confident in it, putting up that vidcard as the prize! IMO, it's HULL IS PURE NEUTRONIUM, THERE IS NO KNOWN WAY OF BLASTING THRU IT, etc. ala my sig!

(When I pick a fight OR battle w/ a problem (or people, but this I TRY to avoid, unless it comes my way first), I choose my battle's wisely, or think so @ least, because I am one of those "Study the enemy, seek weakness" people)... 

Nope, & you're WAY too confident of it imo, for me to "Burn Time" on trying to 'crack it'!

(Steganography... is it your bag/thing?? To be honest - I am NOT sure what you mean by "decode it": It's not a program, so I don't know what you mean to be quite honest (to me, that means disassembly via a debugger) - are you using an alternate datastream or something?? Those don't travel across the wire if you are... just some FYI if this is what you mean!)

APK


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## POGE (Jul 23, 2006)

Ok... one question I dont think you answered...

How do I add a GUI to my programs?


----------



## bigpuns (Jul 24, 2006)

*On a side note...*

Hiya, Im a newbie having trouble, and this is the closest thread i could find to fit my predicament...

I have an Athlon 64 3200 on a Gigabyte GA-K8N Pro-Sli mobo. Tried oc'ing the cpu through bios, just by upping the vcore and frequency a small way. However, when I then saved and exited, post went a bit spazzy, spouted a message about "CPU is over clock speed blah blah..." then restarted the machine. Did this over and over, would not let me back into bios to change owt back and the only way out of the problem was to reset CMOS. Ive tried nothing and Im all out if ideas. I understand these mobos are a bit cackypooh when it comes to oc'ing anyway but would like to do better than I am, and you guys seem to be the bizznazz.

Hope you can help,

Puns


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## i_am_mustang_man (Jul 24, 2006)

bigpuns said:
			
		

> Hiya, Im a newbie having trouble, and this is the closest thread i could find to fit my predicament...
> 
> I have an Athlon 64 3200 on a Gigabyte GA-K8N Pro-Sli mobo. Tried oc'ing the cpu through bios, just by upping the vcore and frequency a small way. However, when I then saved and exited, post went a bit spazzy, spouted a message about "CPU is over clock speed blah blah..." then restarted the machine. Did this over and over, would not let me back into bios to change owt back and the only way out of the problem was to reset CMOS. Ive tried nothing and Im all out if ideas. I understand these mobos are a bit cackypooh when it comes to oc'ing anyway but would like to do better than I am, and you guys seem to be the bizznazz.
> 
> ...



start a new thread with all this info, plus the core name, and what's the default vcore, as well as the freq's you've been getting. if you don't know how to check this, get cpu-z, it rocks. google it


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## Alec§taar (Jul 24, 2006)

*I did above, but no biggie...*



			
				POGE said:
			
		

> Ok... one question I dont think you answered...
> 
> How do I add a GUI to my programs?



Well, I tried to... You're a JAVA man, right?

Problem is? I'm not - NOT REALLY! 

(Could I figure it out? Probably, given time). 

See, I never REALLY liked doing "browser programming", or server-side applets, & certainly not w/ JAVA!

(I have done that type of work though, in NSAPI/ISAPI via C/C++ &/or Delphi in the past - touchy imo, & prone to memory leaks)

However, lately - ASP.NET I do know to a decent degree (for "browser programming", really server-side) & like it well enough (Server Side like ISAPI) & it is far easier, faster than ASP is, & very safe (CLR assures this, & no leaks too, garbage cleanup like JAVA).

Not the same though. Not like Java imo!

So, that all restated? No REAL idea for putting a GUI front on a JAVA driven app, again, as I don't "Do Java"!

(However, I did suggest alternate languages (C++) & tools (See above) that imo, you'd pick up on in a snap due to java exposure, that do GUI easy / RAD style).

APK

P.S.=> If you're not inclined to build in another tool like Borland C++ builder? There are tools like JBuilder from Borland, & Visual J++ from MS - but, I am admittedly not a user of them!

Moving this to "PM" now, I wrote you more there on it... see ya & thanks again all for helping me achieve a 324mhz++ increase on CPU overclock & 195 of 200mhz rating on my RAM speed as well (nearly perfect here also)... apk


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## Alec§taar (Aug 1, 2006)

Here are my latest results, overclock is higher than I have ever run it here thusfar:














* Here is my score, JUST SHY of 1400 (can't break it, & weather's TOO HOT to try for a higher o/c imo, @ least for this summer (topping 100F today around here))






APK

P.S.=> Ran this test to see how far I could o/c (again & so far, seem stable, even in 100F ambient temps today) & see if I could compete w/ dj dn's Opteron 165 DualCore rig @ a competition in this thread here:

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=14736&page=2

I am 39 points shy of his rig hitting 1446++ scores on ScienceMark 2.0... & don't dare "push" harder than this in this heat, imo @ least... apk


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## Alec§taar (Aug 1, 2006)

*POGE ought to find this interesting: I changed my FSB & multiplier to 12x finally...*

Well, highest overclock I am able to achieve thusfar in this heat, running @ 45C in BIOS, & here it is:

*2400mhz stock -> 2772.1mhz o/c'd using 12x multiplier X 231 FSB)*

*CPU mhz*






*RAM mhz*








* Well, POGE - there you are! She's @ the 12x multiplier, & lower FSB (front-side bus)...

APK

P.S.=> Scores on ScienceMark actually are HIGHER using 11x mult. by 250mhz FSB though & test runs more stable as well, completing ALL tests that way... 

Still, the point is there in that I can do the HIGHER 12x multiplier & lower FSB & still get really NICE overclock out of it (372++ mhz overclocked overall gain)!

*HOWEVER, RAM speed rating seems to be suffering:*

I only seem to hit 184/200mhz on the RAM though using this 12x multiplier, whereas I was hitting 196/200mhz on 11 multiplier...

*QUESTION - * which is better in your opinions (using the lower multiplier 11x by 250mhz FSB, OR the newer/latest results using 12x multiplier by 231mhz FSB)? apk


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 1, 2006)

*GOT A BIT MORE (found out I have "fractional multipliers")...*

Got a BIT more outta it, now... to test stability!

2400mhz stock -> 2822.2mhz o/c'd for grand total of 482mhz overdriven gain, running @ 47-50C in BIOS temp. monitors...

(Played w/ multiplier more, & found out I have "fractional" multipliers, & tried 11.5, here are the results (fastest I have seen yet, & RAM is matching DDR-400 speeds (albeit, set @ divider of DDR-333 rates)):

*CPU-z CPU portion*






&

*CPU-z RAM portion*








* I am pretty sure that IS the best I can do, & keep my mhz on the CPU high (over 2822.2mhz) & RAM Speeds ratings above DDR-400 rate (201mhz over 200mhz stock)...

APK

P.S.=> Comments from the peanut gallery are appreciated, especially regarding the RAM speeds being better (over 200mhz DDR-400 rating now @ 201mhz) using 11x or 11.5x multiplier vs. 12x multiplier (though it gave me really nice o/c on CPU, ram was too slow imo)... apk


----------



## randomperson21 (Aug 1, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> Ok... one question I dont think you answered...
> 
> How do I add a GUI to my programs?



Well, if you use java, a really nice app is Microsoft Visual J#.
Its free, pretty easy to use, and if you screw up some of your code, its pretyt lenient on what at stops at. Personally, being sort of a n00b programmer, i like it because it doesn't balk at little stupid mistakes that take me hours to debug using Sun's compiler.

Also, it comes with a very nifty WYSIWYG drag and drop gui maker. Just drag in the buttons, etc, you want, and the program will automatically generate the code for it. Then just navigate to the button's subroutine, and add the function that you want it to execute in. 

hope that helps.


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 1, 2006)

*POGE, Ketxxx, & Tatty One: Wrote you in PM, see above & this screenshot set now*

*CPU-z CPU portion*






&

*CPU-z RAM portion*








* I don't think I can find a "better balance" of CPU mhz rating & RAM rated speed (198.5/200mhz DDR-400, set @ DDR-3 mulitipliers).

APK

P.S.=> Comments are appreciated, & feedback on the RAM mhz to rating relationship, vs. that of just CPU mhz overdriven gains... apk


----------



## POGE (Aug 1, 2006)

Running on a half multiplier is bad.  Its just like running your memory on a divider.  It leaves your CPU tapping its foot while your memory is trying to catch up.  Here is why.

When you run your memory 1:1 it works like this:

FSB x Multi = CPU Speed and CPU Speed  / Multi = Ram Speed (1:1)

When you run your memory on a divider it works like this:

FSB x Multi = CPU Speed and (CPU Speed / Multi) / Memory Divider = Memory Speed (Not 1:1, leaves your CPU tapping its foot.)

When running your CPU on a half multiplier it works like this, similar to a memory divider.  For some reason, when dividing the CPU Speed by the Multi to get the memory speed, it goes up to the next highest multi.  The half multi doesnt come into effect on your memory.

FSB x Multi = CPU Speed and (CPU Speed / Multi + .5) = Memory Speed (Not 1:1, leaves your CPU tapping its foot.  It is not 1:1 because the memory will end up not running at the same speed as your FSB, as you can see  from your CPU-Z screenshot.

Your best bet IMO would be to find the highest overclock that you can run your memory 1:1 with (not on a divider).  That would mean that you will be FSB limited, since it looks like your memory cant handle over about 220mhz (just a guess).  So, 220 x What multi?  12x.  12x will give you the highest CPU speed you can get.  So, 12 x 220, or the highest you can run your memory at, will give you the greatest OC IMO.  12 x 220 will give you a speed of only 2640, but you can always push it farther by loosening your memory timings.  Memory is obviously the thing that is holding back your overclock.  Honestly, I would buy new memory.   Running at at 11x would force you to run on a memory divider because of the higher FSB, and running it at 11.5x causes divider like issues.  In your case you want to keep the FSB as low as possible, and your multiplier as high as possible, so you can run your memory 1:1.  Once you get it working at 12 x 220, you can push it farther... try adding 2 mhz to the fsb until it becomes unstable from there. I noticed in all of these overclocks you STILL running your memory on a divider! BAD BAD BAD!   Of course, if you had decent memory, you wouldnt be held back with all of these memory problems, and you could set your multiplier/fsb to whatever you desire and overclock the hell out of that beast!


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 1, 2006)

DAMMIT!

I had to repost, uploaded wrong image...

APK


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 1, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> Running on a half multiplier is bad.  Its just like running your memory on a divider.  It leaves your CPU tapping its foot while your memory is trying to catch up.  Here is why.



Yea, but I tried the 12x multiplier x whatever earlier, & got WORSE ScienceMark 2.0 scores, & it would not consistently run it stable either that way... plus, my RAM was only 185mhz of 200 possible...

Doesn't this matter?



			
				POGE said:
			
		

> Your best bet IMO would be to find the highest overclock that you can run your memory 1:1 with (not on a divider).  That would mean that you will be FSB limited, since it looks like your memory cant handle over about 220mhz (just a guess).  So, 220 x What multi?  12x.  12x will give you the highest CPU speed you can get.  So, 12 x 220, or the highest you can run your memory at, will give you the greatest OC IMO.  12 x 220 will give you a speed of only 2640, but you can always push it farther by loosening your memory timings.



I got ya, understood... but, I am trying to "balance" the gain on CPU, & memory (to be as close to stock DDR-400 rating of 200mhz as is possible, & to be able to complete the ScienceMark 2.0 tests... good test of stability, believe-it-or-not (somewhat of a long test)).



			
				POGE said:
			
		

> Memory is obviously the thing that is holding back your overclock.  Honestly, I would buy new memory.



Agreed 110%, iirc, we came to that conclusion LONG ago already (yourself & Ketxxx while assisting me here)... but, for now, I have to "make do" w/ what I have in the way of memory!

(Good learning experience too imo)

Here is what I have "settled on", both CPU o/c wise & memory-wise (stable, & allows me to finish & run ScienceMark 2.0 to completion, & highest score yet in it):

*CPU-z 1.35 CPU  (showing ~353mhz SOLID/STABLE overdriven gain over stock speed 2400mhz)*







&

*CPU-z 1.35 RAM overdriven gain (getting ~197mhz of 200mhz possible on DDR-400 via DDR3 dividers used)*






*ScienceMark 2.0 score (best yet @ 1401++, & stable):*








* There she be, best I can do...  even w/ a 100F heatwave ambient temps outside today!

APK

P.S.=> Again: Trying for the multiplier @ 12x lent to instability & low (184.5mhz/200mhz possible DDR-400 RAM clock) RAM scores - this seems to give me a balance, & stability thusfar... apk


----------



## Tatty_One (Aug 1, 2006)

I just uninstalled ScienceMark, will have to download again as I think I got 1426!!!! something to be said for 2 x 512KB Cache!!!!


----------



## bbriand (Aug 1, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> FSB x Multi = CPU Speed and (CPU Speed / Multi + .5) = Memory Speed (Not 1:1, leaves your CPU tapping its foot.  It is not 1:1 because the memory will end up not running at the same speed as your FSB, as you can see  from your CPU-Z screenshot.



I was wondering if this just points out ineffiecient behaviour or some potential danger to the systems circuitry?  There are numerous things that we use daily that sacrifice efficency for performance.  What would be the consequences of letting the CPU "tap its foot", so to speak, once in a while?

Bill


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 1, 2006)

Tatty_One said:
			
		

> I just uninstalled ScienceMark, will have to download again as I think I got 1426!!!! something to be said for 2 x 512KB Cache!!!!



No, you have a really GOOD overclock (your sig says 2800mhz, assuming that is stable here)...

You'll find that memory bandwidth matters on it, & what I've noted thusfar in testing? You gain w/ a FASTER "FSB" setup more, than you do with a larger multiplier & lower FSB's!

(Sciencemark 2.0's proven that much to me thusfar, @ least)

APK

P.S.=> It's going to vary by machine, so nobody's going to have an "all in one" perfect one size fits all formula for everyone... & when your system's in "danger" imo, is when you can't complete a long running test like ScienceMark 2.0, or others like Prime/SuperPrime, etc. & your temps start "skyrocketing"... @ 12x mult. by 231mhz FSB, I was pushing 50++ C, too hot by comparison to now @ 47C!



			
				bbriand said:
			
		

> I was wondering if this just points out ineffiecient behaviour or some potential danger to the systems circuitry?  There are numerous things that we use daily that sacrifice efficency for performance.  What would be the consequences of letting the CPU "tap its foot", so to speak, once in a while?
> 
> Bill



Based on observation so far? 

I found out I perform LESS WELL & LESS STABLE when using that higher multiplier of 12x + 231mhz FSB, vs. 11.5x multiplier + 239mhz FSB here!

(I also get closer to the 200mhz rating of speed of my DDR-400 RAM this way as well 197/200mhz & STABLE - & can complete the ScienceMark 2.0 test in the last photo setup I am using & running 47C as temps)...

Guys, I truly THINK this is "my perfect mark"... the benchmark's showing me that much imo @ least... apk


----------



## Tatty_One (Aug 1, 2006)

Yes it is stable, I can boot to windows @ 2870 and play Oblivion/CSS/Dod @ 2840 but it will not complete more than 7 minutes of Prime so have dropped it to a nice round figure! its Prime stable at that (well for 2 and a half hours it was).

The CPU is going at the weekend in any case,  I got it on a special offer for £160 7 weeks ago and I have been offered £200 for it.  I am just going to get a 3800 or 4000 to last me to christmas, will pocket the change (I can get a 3800 Venice for under £70!), E Bay my Mobo, CPU and Ram at the end of the year and with my Christmas pressie will get a Conroe/Mobo/DDR2 when the prices have fallen a bit.  May get really extravigant and get an SLi Mobo and buy another 7900 for Sli....but thats a long shot, will have to start sweet talking the wife!


----------



## POGE (Aug 1, 2006)

Cant you atleast see how much you score with your max oc with your mem 1:1 and your multi at 12x?


----------



## Tatty_One (Aug 1, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> Cant you atleast see how much you score with your max oc with your mem 1:1 and your multi at 12x?



I must admit, I really do not like half multipliers especially!


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 1, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> Cant you atleast see how much you score with your max oc with your mem 1:1 and your multi at 12x?



I did but didn't post it, because it was unable to complete the ScienceMark 2.0 test period!

(& 12x multiplier BY 250mhz FSB was showing HUGE gains, CPU-wise, but only ~ 185mhz/200mhz possible on my RAM)...

I apparently can get a lot better than THAT rating of the mhz of my RAM doing the 11.5x multiplier by 239mhz FSB, & hit ~197mhz/200mhz possible on my RAM, & STAY STABLE!



* Stability was the MAIN issue, & then getting as close as I could to the memory I have's potential...

APK

P.S.=> Tell me more in detail, in what you think is bad about "fractional multiplier's use" if you will... can always use input/feedback/experienced opinions, etc. et al... apk


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 1, 2006)

russianboy said:
			
		

> http://www.blurbdesigns.com/OcCalc/calc.htm?CpuFsb=200&CpuMux=11&LdtMux=5&RamRat=0.67
> 
> This might help you in future OC'ings



Maybe... & thanks!

(For me, that is "a look @ the future" 4 years off or so into the distance here...)



* I only buy, on average, once every 4 years or so... & the setup in my sig is only 5 months old now, or near to it, as is...

Anyhow/anyways -> *GOOD THREAD!*

*I went from:

2400mhz stock ->* 2592.5mhz o/c myself

*Up to 2752.4mhz STABLE + 197/200mhz on RAM * (in 100F ambient no less, during the Summer 2006 "HeatWave")!

(Via your guy's help in the memory "physics" area, & now I understand it better... & found a GOOD multithreaded code based benchmark, as test in ScienceMark 2.0 to check your stability w/ as well! BONUS...)

APK

P.S.=> POGE & OTHERS:  Tell me more in detail, in what you think is bad about "fractional multiplier's use" if you will... can always use input/feedback/experienced opinions, etc. et al... apk


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Aug 1, 2006)

i had the same board as that in my old a64 sys.it is a great oc'ing board.i had nothing really to do it justice tho'.


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 2, 2006)

tigger69 said:
			
		

> i had the same board as that in my old a64 sys.it is a great oc'ing board.i had nothing really to do it justice tho'.



If you're speaking to me, thanks... I like it well enough! 

I could use better RAM though!

IMO & those of others? It is "choking me" from getting an even better score on ScienceMark 2.0 & overclock that is stable over the long-term as well... 

It's the conclusion that others came to here (Ketxxx, Tatty One, & POGE) & I tend to think these guys know what they're doing!

Better RAM (possibly ECC type, because those Opteron 165 "dualcore" CPU's get the better of mine consistently thru the ScienceMark 2.0 benchmark test/shootout we are having (where you just passed me by the way, good job) & look like "THE" AMD dualcore CPU to have for overclocking & just general performance bang-for-the-buck).



* For now though? Well, we "make do w/ what we have here"... 

I have to, & this is/was a great learning experience (now, imo @ least? I can overclock as well as anyone needs to & understand the process & its mechanics firmly enough thanks to good guidance I got here).

APK


----------



## POGE (Aug 2, 2006)

Alec§taar said:
			
		

> P.S.=> POGE & OTHERS:  Tell me more in detail, in what you think is bad about "fractional multiplier's use" if you will... can always use input/feedback/experienced opinions, etc. et al... apk



See my other post. 



			
				Poge said:
			
		

> Running on a half multiplier is bad. Its just like running your memory on a divider. It leaves your CPU tapping its foot while your memory is trying to catch up. Here is why.
> 
> When you run your memory 1:1 it works like this:
> 
> ...


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 2, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> See my other post.



Got ya, & Tatty One pretty much seconds what you wrote (albeit, to me in "PM")... & that it is NOT a "natural clockstate" for CPU's either.



* I am going to try out 12x multiplier today by 225-235mhz & see what happens!

I don't expect much more outta this rig than what I am doing thusfar w/ your guys' assist, due to the RAM I have "holding me back" etc. & the fact I could not hold it stable thru ScienceMark 2.0 with that multiplier in place for a complete default run thru it... it turned out to not only be a GOOD benchmark test, but also a decent stability test of an overclock as well (bonus - 2 for the price of 1, out of 1 program)...

APK

P.S.=> I stepped back down to a solid multiplier for now (11x rather than 11.5x) & am getting 2750.1mhz as my overclock & 195/200mhz RAM speed recovered due to what Tatty One & yourself POGE have suggested here regarding "fractional multipliers" usage & why it is not good to use... 

Thus, so far @ those settings?

It has run stable all thru the nite on Folding@Home, & that is a decent indicator of stability imo @ least, as well (since I use the console mode version's "-forceasm" commandline switch)... apk


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 2, 2006)

*Temp. ambient outside is low still (sub 100F), so 226x12 works so far*

*CPU-z 1.35 CPU mhz results (Using 226 FSB x 12 multiplier):*






*CPU-z 1.35 RAM mhz results (Using 226 FSB x 12 multiplier):*






* This is the ONLY part of it I am "not liking", in that it only gains me back ~181mhz of 200mhz rated speed of this RAM... increasing the FSB in later tests coming up SHOULD buy some of this back for me (using 11x multiplier by 248-250 FSB got me 195-197/200mhz here).

*ScienceMark 2.0 result (stable no less, temp. is better @ this part of day (a.m.)) using 226 FSB x 12 multiplier:*








OVERALL, so far, so good as far as stability is concerned @ least, but LOW ScienceMark 2.0 score there (I hit 1390-1401 yesterday using 11x multiplier by 248-250 FSB, & got FAR closer to the mhz-speed of my RAM total potential of 200mhz (195-197/200mhz)... 

I will push to 227-> 228 -> 229 -> 230 -> 231mhz etc. & see what can pass thru the ScienceMark 2.0 test, stable, & run my "Folding@Home" stable overnite as well once I hit a spot in 12x multiplier based settings that gets back 190-194mhz of my total 200mhz RAM mhz speed potential possible...

APK


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 2, 2006)

*CPU-z 1.35 229 FSB by 12x multiplier (ScienceMark 2.0 results also)*

*CPU-z 1.35 229 FSB by 12x multiplier CPU-mhz:*






*CPU-z 1.35 229 FSB by 12x multiplier RAM-mhz:*






* Getting CLOSER here now, raised RAM-mhz from ~181 -> ~184... next jump or two on the FSB should do it, provided it stays stable on the ScienceMark 2.0 results (which went up also of course)...

(Yesterday, you can note I was getting FAR "tighter" RAM scores (195-197/200mhz possible for DDR-400 speeds)... this is the ONLY part bugging me, & of course, now lower ScienceMark 2.0 scores!)

So far @ least - I am SURE increasing the FSB will counter both... question is, will it yield as high of a ScienceMark 2.0 score, & will I get nearer to the 200mhz RAM speeds!

*ScienceMark 2.0 results using 229 FSB by 12x multiplier:*








APK

P.S.=> Off I go to try 230mhz & beyond FSB x 12 multipliers... & hopefully, I get my RAM-mhz speed up to 190-194 ranges @ least & that ScienceMark 2.0 score up around 1390-1401 like I got yesterday using 11x multipliers by 248-250mhz FSB... apk


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 2, 2006)

*Hit limit @ 231mhz FSB (232 FSB x 12 mult. cannot complete ScienceMark 2.0 tests)*

See my subject-line/title above, & the results below: Trade-offs appear to abound when doing this for me, in deciding where I gain more in speed of:

CPU-mhz (BETTER now on 12x (~2772mhz CPU) vs. 12x multipliers used (~ 2753mhz CPU)) - definitely in favor of 12x multiplier here, by a 20 point pop!

RAM-mhz (take big hit here doing 185/200mhz using 12x multipliers, vs. 195-197/200mhz using 11x-11.5 solid OR fractional multipliers) 

& 

For my ScienceMark 2.0 results (which scored 1401 using 11.5x "fractional multiplier" & hit 2752mhz speeds on CPU & the 197/200mhz RAM mhz speed vs. 11x solid multiplier hit 2750mhz speeds on CPU, & the 195/200mhz RAM mhz speed, & now using 12x multipliers - you can see the results below):

*CPU-z 1.35 CPU-mhz result (using 12x multiplier by 231mhz FSB):*






*CPU-z 1.35 RAM-mhz result (using 12x multiplier by 231mhz FSB)::*






*ScienceMark 2.0 score (using 12x multiplier by 231mhz FSB):*








* 232mhz FSB by 12x multiplier won't complete the ScienceMark 2.0 tests (fails on Primordia by 2nd round citing oddly scientifically notation bound numbers & progress bar ceases forward motion & counts, stuck on loop #2 endlessly - thus, indicative of instability imo & I can't go past there...)

APK

P.S.=> Your thoughts about my findings are appreciated guys!

I.E.-> I can score 9 points (nearly 10) HIGHER on ScienceMark 2.0 using 11x-11.5x multipliers x 248-250 FSB, & get close overall RAM rated speeds (197/200mhz total possible)

vs. 

12x multipliers by 231mhz limit I now show here, which give me a HIGHER CPU-mhz rating by 20 points, but slow up my RAM to only 185/200mhz possible + a lower ScienceMark 2.0 score by nearly 10 points!

Tough call imo! How about you guys?? 

*QUESTION:*

Anything I can do to get MORE outta the RAM-mhz part - like additional tightenings of the timing chain for it above & beyond what I have now (it will NOT take over 2.6v, tried that yesterday, to escape using "AUTO" BIOS setting)... apk


----------



## POGE (Aug 2, 2006)

The only reason a 12x multiplier would be better is if your ram cant handle an 11x multiplier or if it allows you to not run on a divider.  Since its obviosly not going to let you run your memory 1:1, it doesnt really matter if you run at 11x or 12x, do whatever allows you to run your memory and cpu at faster sheer mhz.  Just steer clear of the half multi. 

I have a spare dfi nf4 sli-d motherboard if your interested in trading.  Its a much better overclocker than your motherboard.  I just have two and I want to experiment with other boards.  Let me know. 

Here it is: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813136158

I'm willing to bet big money that you could get your ram running 1:1 with this board, or at more desired speeds.  It has a lot more divider settings, and tons more options.


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 2, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> The only reason a 12x multiplier would be better is if your ram cant handle an 11x multiplier or if it allows you to not run on a divider.



Aha, so, I was potentially doing BETTER using the 11x (not 11.5 fractional) multiplier then... higher ScienceMark 2.0 scores by 5-7 solid points using SOLID multiplier (and 10 using the FRACTIONAL 11.5x one), & also 195/200mhz RAM speed regained!



			
				POGE said:
			
		

> Since its obviosly not going to let you run your memory 1:1, it doesnt really matter if you run at 11x or 12x, do whatever allows you to run your memory and cpu at faster sheer mhz.  Just steer clear of the half multi.



Got ya, I did, & went back to "SOLID" 11x multiplier rates & got 2750.1mhz or so (around SAME sciencemark scores though, maybe a BIT better on 12x by 5-7 points or so using 12x multiplier).

1:1 DDR-400 non-divider based speed of RAM is impossible here, that much I know (using default 5x HTT/LDT)... tried it, failed @ bootup.



			
				POGE said:
			
		

> I have a spare dfi nf4 sli-d motherboard if your interested in trading.  Its a much better overclocker than your motherboard.  I just have two and I want to experiment with other boards.  Let me know.
> 
> Here it is: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813136158&ATT=13-136-158&CMP=OTC-Froogle



Ah, no... I will stick by this beastie, it is a decent mobo imo @ least & does the job... it's MORE MY RAM (lol, dammit!) imo & many of yours, holding me "down" here.



APK

P.S.=> * *QUESTION (again):*

Do you think there is/are ANY MORE possible "Ram memory timing-chain" tightenings adjustments I can pull, just to TRY to get "MORE ROI" back on the RAM-mhz CPU-z results noted?

The lower 11x mult. did better on that (195/200mhz regained), whereas the 12x mult only gained 185/200mhz (not as "tight")... although, 12x does show one HELL of a CPU-mhz gain (this I like for certain I can assure you)...

Thanks for feedback (Ketxxx, this may be YOUR arena of specialty)... apk


----------



## POGE (Aug 2, 2006)

One thing you said bothered me... "using default 5x HTT/LDT"?! You should have it set to 4x!  It will run your HTT to fast if you dont. 

About memory... You can go three ways really.

1. Loosen timings and try to get more mhz on your memory, and maybe even try for 1:1 with a 12x multi.

2. Leave them.

3. Tighten them and tweak them for more points once you've found your maximum stable overclock.

What is your memory and overclock currently at? (sorry youve changed it a lot, hard to keep up )


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 2, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> One thing you said bothered me... "using default 5x HTT/LDT"?! You should have it set to 4x!  It will run your HTT to fast if you dont.



I can try it @ 4x I suppose, I know it won't "cut it" @ 5x default LDT/HTT...



* To do that, do I drop my RAM timings back to defaults, etc. (voltages are already "AUTO", since my Corsair DDR-400/PC-3200 won't take higher than 2.6v period, not even 2.65v)?



			
				POGE said:
			
		

> About memory... You can go three ways really.
> 
> 1. Loosen timings and try to get more mhz on your memory, and maybe even try for 1:1 with a 12x multi.
> 
> ...



*On #1* - nope, that I am TRYING to avoid!

(I.E.-> Loosening them SO much, I lose Memory->FSB->CPU transfers speeds etc. (DMA for drivers &/or AMD HyperTransport CPU-> Memory Access help, notwitstanding etc.) as well as the "ROI" on the 200mhz DDR-400 rated possible RAM speed (get closer using lower 11x mult. than 12x mult. here - apparently, this IS the tradeoff using divider type thinking going DDR-333 as I have or had to)).

*On #2* - I think this 12x mulitiplier may be "The Way" to go, because of the excellent CPU-mhz pop I get (20 points over 11x solid multiplier, & maybe 5-7 points higher on ScienceMark 2.0).

So far today, not high point of heatwave yet (pre-noonish time here), it is holding STABLE & SOLID! Rest of the day & F@H running will tell the story on that part, should be ok imo!

*On #3* - hence, my question in my P.S. last post, & in this one too!



			
				POGE said:
			
		

> What is your memory and overclock currently at? (sorry youve changed it a lot, hard to keep up )



CPU-z 1.35 result enough? Let me know if you need more:






APK

P.S.=> That would be a PAIN, resetting back memory stuff in BIOS to defaults... but one I am willing to go thru (I just have to write down all my timings in my BIOS I used so far in the "memory-timings-chain" stuff is all, to restore them if needed)... & please, note my last question in my last posts' P.S. bottom section, if you would, thanks!

HERE IT IS AGAIN FOR YOUR REFERENCE:

*QUESTION (again):*

Do you think there is/are ANY MORE possible "Ram memory timing-chain" tightenings adjustments I can pull, just to TRY to get "MORE ROI" back on the RAM-mhz CPU-z results noted?

The lower 11x mult. did better on that (195/200mhz regained), whereas the 12x mult only gained 185/200mhz (not as "tight")... although, 12x does show one HELL of a CPU-mhz gain (this I like for certain I can assure you)...

Thanks for feedback (Ketxxx, this may be YOUR arena of specialty)... apk


----------



## POGE (Aug 2, 2006)

Read my edit... but that 5x LDT thing is still bothering me! Whenever you have your FSB overclocked you should run your LDT at 4x! Didnt I teach you about that?!

Edit: BTW these would make you a very happy man:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820220009

As far as tightening your memory, go into your bios, set the CAS to 2 and see if that boots.  If it does, and its stable thats great.  If it doesn't, set it back to 2.5.  Messing with memory timings are really guess and check, from my experience.  Do the same with the rest of your timings.


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 2, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> Read my edit... but that 5x LDT thing is still bothering me! Whenever you have your FSB overclocked you should run your LDT at 4x! Didnt I teach you about that?!



Yes, you did... but, "noob" stage was then, this is now (elevated & now more enlightened memory-timing-chain to O/C Cpu rates noob!)...



			
				POGE said:
			
		

> Edit: BTW these would make you a very happy man:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820220009



Maybe... but I am sticking by this mobo, thanks though... what you CAN point me to? BETTER OVERCLOCKING RAM!

(I will need & get it one day, to replace this Corsair DDR-400 "matched pair" 2.256mb stick setup I have now - it is NOT overclocker-ready RAM imo!)

Ah (edit part) NOW I see a link for RAM!!! Cool... it was a DFI mobo before above!



			
				POGE said:
			
		

> As far as tightening your memory, go into your bios, set the CAS to 2 and see if that boots.  If it does, and its stable thats great.  If it doesn't, set it back to 2.5.  Messing with memory timings are really guess and check, from my experience.  Do the same with the rest of your timings.



I figured this was how it was going to be... trial & error, but now, I think we ARE getting to where this machine is @ its "optimal balance" in terms of CPU-mhz & also RAM-mhz return using "divider thinking" (DDR-333 down from DDR-400 in BIOS & memory timing-chain adjusts too)...

Above all - thanks for ALL of your guys' help!



* It's been fun, & a productive learning experience in an area I let go MASSIVELY slack the past 3-5 years now (hardware thinking on PC's)...

APK

P.S.=> Good thing you guys are patient, lol... hopefully, this entire thread will work as a guideline for others w/ similar Athlon 64 x2 based DualCore rigs too! apk


----------



## POGE (Aug 2, 2006)

That link IS better overclocking ram! LOL! Check the link. 

BTW, that 5x LDT is still worrying me! You said in your post that you were running it at 5x when you tested to see if your memory could handle 1:1! Why?! Whenever your rig is overclocked it should be at 4x!  Sorry but this is just frustrating me.. :S


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 2, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> That link IS better overclocking ram! LOL! Check the link.



Yup, caught it (first one you posted earlier showed me a DFI mobo)... thanks for that, because my RAM is what's "stalling my progress" here, definitely imo @ this point!



			
				POGE said:
			
		

> BTW, that 5x LDT is still worrying me! You said in your post that you were running it at 5x when you tested to see if your memory could handle 1:1! Why?!



I figured it had to be that way, to do the default timings is all & now? I know that's NOT the case... 4x will do!



			
				POGE said:
			
		

> Whenever your rig is overclocked it should be at 4x!  Sorry but this is just frustrating me.. :S



Don't let it... I am @ 4x & have been the last few pages on RAM LDT/HTT stuff!



APK


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 2, 2006)

*CAS Latency is WORKING @ 2.0 *









* That much is going good @ 2.0 down from 2.5 CAS Latency setting per CPU-z 1.35 output...

(What to try next in your opinion on that RAM "memory timing-chain" sequence?)

Thanks!

APK

P.S.=> Still shows ~185/200mhz possible, but this is ONLY the start of this phase of attempting more tighter memory timings... apk


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 2, 2006)

*Tighter still vs. above... RAS precharge down now from 3 to 2*








* Getting there, slowly but surely, via "Trial-N-Error" tests...

(Tried to get RAS# to CAS# delay down from 3 to 2, but B.S.O.D.'d on the way into Windows, not even stopping, just flashing briefly once & soft-reboot... odd!)

ONLY THING NOW IS, what to try next in those series of memory timings numbers!

APK

P.S.=> Anyhow/anyways - Once this gets as "tight" as possible, I will try push 232 FSB again & see what happens (hopefully, MORE CPU-mhz, & also better RAM-mhz ratio (better than 185/200mhz so far @ least using 12x multiplier))... 

AND, if that is "no go" on any more of these RAM 'timing-chain' tightenings & I can't push 232 FSB? 

I am @ my best imo @ least... apk


----------



## POGE (Aug 2, 2006)

Looking good.  How is it affecting your score?


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 2, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> Looking good.  How is it affecting your score?



Heh, GOOD POINT: I am omitting my "stability test" using ScienceMark 2.0!



* That surely turned out to be THE best benchmark test I have EVER participated in, because it drove me to go for higher overclocks & STABLE for sure if a system passes thru its rather memory intensive tests!

APK

P.S.=> Let's find out, shall we? NEXT POST, I'll put up a result of it @ 231mhz FSB x 12 multiplier & then try 232mhz FSB x 12 mult & this set of further tightened memory timings per CPU-z 1.35 model... 

*REPOSTING FOR YOUR REFERENCE:*






Still, is there ANYTHING ELSE in the timing chain for memory from CPU-z you can think of to try to "hack down" more? Thanks... apk


----------



## bbriand (Aug 2, 2006)

Alec,

I've been meaning to OC my system for some time now.  I have had aftermarket coolers installed for over two months now but have yet to begin the process.

I downloaded and reviewed a couple of guides but non specific to dual core processors.  That being said perhaps if you've jotted down notes and things you tried that worked/failed or Private Messages that you received from other users you might begin a guide.  

Once the summer busyness winds down and I once again have spare time on the weekends I plan to begin my process.  13 pages in this thread testifies to the time and effort you and others have put into this and brings me hope that if (when) I run into problems there will be help from others.

Bill


----------



## POGE (Aug 2, 2006)

Just PM me or start a thread if you need help bill.   Alec, what are all of the memory options you have in your bios?


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 2, 2006)

POGE said:
			
		

> Alec, what are all of the memory options you have in your bios?



Good point - they don't "Exactly Match" those given in CPU-z 1.35...



* I will grab a snapshot via a photo of my BIOS settings via my CoolPix L4 4 mpixel digital camera & brb w/ it!

APK

P.S.=> Last ScienceMark 2.0 test settings, using the 2nd futher set of RAM timing chain tightens failed the test on Primordia phase (the ones that "bugs out" on me if things aren't perfect apparently memory-wise, so going back to using the settings pictured below for memory timings).

*GOING BACK TO THIS ONE, vs. one pictured above:*






(Ras Precharge Latency = 3 here, & finishes ScienceMark 2.0 tests, whereas the one pictured above w/ RAS Precharge Latency = 2, though it holds? Does not!)

ScienceMark 2.0 really IS my test of stability imo @ least, is why... apk


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 2, 2006)

Ok, now HERE is what I ran into last time I tried doing 12x multipliers: NOW? ScienceMark 2.0 won't even work on the "2nd to best" memory chain tightened timings above, & it did earlier today!

Using these settings (reposting for your reference):

*CPU-z 1.35 RAM-mhz Timings (using 12x multiplier by 231mhz FSB)*






Mainly because the RAS precharge set to 2 down from 3 failed on the ScienceMark 2.0 test, but it MAY be the heat too (testing much later in day now, hotter by far).

*CPU-z 1.35 CPU-mhz Timings (using 12x multiplier by 231mhz FSB)*






*ScienceMark 2.0 score (based on 12x multiplier by 231mhz FSB):*






* This freeze on ScienceMark 2.0 running now, even with the LESSER of my 2 RAM tightenings now in place (RAS Precharge = 3 worked earlier, set to 2 it would not finish ScienceMark 2.0)...

This is probably because I ran the test in early a.m. (like 8 a.m.) & it is MUCH cooler, surrounding ambient temp.-wise, than it is NOW (1:30 p.m. almost & HOT POINT of the day typically).

Still, I am going to "stick by" this set of memory timings & CPU FSB @ 231mhz x 12 multiplier!

It does get me a NICE mhz-CPU increase pop + a BIT better ScienceMark 2.0 score over 11x multipliers rates (12x mult = 1392 score & 2772.5 mhz CPU), & only "slightly" less on the RAM-mhz return (185/200mhz approx.)... 

Whereas, by way of comparison, using 249mhz FSB x 11 multiplier did around 1390-1401 Sciencemark 2.0 scoring, & 196/200mhz RAM-mhz returns... & "ONLY" 2750 mhz CPU-mhz gain-wise!

Mixed bag!

APK

P.S.=> Going to get you my BIOS memory options, had to unload some of the photos from the camera's onboard 16mb card... apk


----------



## Tatty_One (Aug 2, 2006)

What is your speed now? sorry missed a day in posts and stuff and what volts are you running @ with what temps?  have you hopefully moved on from the 11.5 multiplier? The BIOS pics would be helpful because I may have one dual core bios trick still up my sleeve for the general overclock that might give you a few more revs that will increase your ram speed by a little.  Nice tighter timings but I would expect that on a underclock to a certain extent.

Edit:  not wanting to step on Poge's toes but increase the TRAS to 6...drop the RAS precharge to 2 that might work and tighter  RAS gives more benefit than tighter TRAS.


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 2, 2006)

Tatty_One said:
			
		

> What is your speed now? sorry missed a day in posts and stuff and what volts are you running @ with what temps?  have you hopefully moved on from the 11.5 multiplier?



See above, 1.6V on chipset & more (will have photos from my BIOS in minutes too to put into this thread for more detailed reference)... 

Scores above from ScienceMark 2.0 are good, bit overall better than 11x mult. got me (3-7 points worth depending on test runs I did)...

Now, though? Touchy completing runs (albeit imo it's the heat! Now that I am testing @ the "hot point" of the day 2 p.m.'ish aren't letting it run stable @ 12x mult. anymore, where it did this a.m., see above).

It may or may NOT be RAS precharge to 2, down from 3 @ all, but I am resetting it back for now... it may just be it is HOT as heck now, & it wasn't this a.m.!



			
				Tatty_One said:
			
		

> The BIOS pics would be helpful because I may have one dual core bios trick still up my sleeve for the general overclock that might give you a few more revs that will increase your ram speed by a little.



Alrighty then, the pics are coming soon from my BIOS, and tips/tricks/techniques never hurt anyone to hear them, imo @ least!



			
				Tatty_One said:
			
		

> Nice tighter timings but I would expect that on a underclock to a certain extent.



Well, they have been "touch & go" w/ 12x multiplier - I complained earlier on I could not complete ScienceMark 2.0 running them, & yet this a.m. I could! I stated this to you all here earlier on in the thread.

It's gotta be the heatwave... & imo? I am getting NEAR to what this beast can do, for good & all o/c-wise!



* Anyhow, replying to you all here prior to getting the BIOS pics you need!

APK

P.S.=> BBriand, didn't mean to "blow you off" earlier, & I am glad this might help you or others reading it, especially w/ DualCore systems like mine is... it can be a GOOD guide to others too! The biggest hassle in o/c'ing imo, is this RAM memory timing chain loosen, & retighten phase... rest of it is pretty much cake, imo @ least... apk


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 2, 2006)

Sorry for delay in BIOS photos guys:

1.) Hit memory limit in camera (no external RAM is why, I have TONS of old CompactFlash boards, for an older camera I had, but did not buy "extra" for this one)

2.) Had to empty old photos (of my 2-4 year old niece, can't lose those (memories)) to my HDD & USB backup drive too, first.

3.) Now that I have the space? LOL, too much GLARE results taking shots of my monitor!

(AND, no matter WHAT angle I use, so it MAY have to wait until nighttime (unless I can go thru the camera's "SHOOTING" menu & alter its default glare control settings (there are TONS of those from outdoor, indoor, bright/dim, snowy vs. summer etc.)))

* Thanks for your patience on my system's BIOS screenshots, they will be coming today @ some point once I figure out HOW to avoid the damn glare I am seeing in them!

APK


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 3, 2006)

*Camera shots are STILL "bad" (whited out, for lack of a better description)*

See my subject-line/title above first & the details/particulars of my BIOS below (per request)...

(I can put the photos up, but they STILL came out lousy - "whited out" looking, too bright, can barely SEE the letters &/or info. requested & I got sick of taking shot after shot & having to empty the memory & do it all over again etc.)

So, time to TYPE IT ALL OUT (pertinent info.):

CPU HTT Frequency = 4x

*DRAM CONFIGURATION:*

CAS# Latency Tcl = 2
Min RAS# Active Time Tras = 5T
RAS# to CAS# Delay Trcl = 3T
Row Precharge Time Trp = 3T
Row Cycle Time Trc = 10T
Row Refresh Cycle Time Trk = 13T
Read to Write Trwt = 3T
Write Recovery Time = 3T
1t/2t = 1t

*JUMPER FREE CONFIGURATION DATA:*

O/C Profile = Manual
CPU Frequency = 231mhz
PCI Clock = 100mhz
DDR Voltage = AUTO (cannot do over 2.6v on my RAM, tried it already 2x)
Chipset Voltage = 1.6V (max)
HT Voltage = 1.25V (max)
CPU Mult = 12x
CPU Volt = 1.5V (max)



* There you go guys... thanks!

APK


----------



## Tatty_One (Aug 3, 2006)

So you actually have only 1.5V to the CPU and thats your max?  That explains why you are not quite getting the overclocks that I am as I am maxed at 1.55V.  I assume that your boards BIOS maxes you at that, is there not a BIOS update that may give you more or perhaps a modded BIOS.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Aug 3, 2006)

i'am sorry to say alec,there is no bios update for your board to raise the vcore.funnily enuff the max on my a8n-sli premium was 1.55v.is that not the max on yours.the only thing i found was a mod for the board to enable more vcore.


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 3, 2006)

Tatty_One said:
			
		

> So you actually have only 1.5V to the CPU and thats your max?  That explains why you are not quite getting the overclocks that I am as I am maxed at 1.55V.  I assume that your boards BIOS maxes you at that, is there not a BIOS update that may give you more or perhaps a modded BIOS.



I've actually had it @ 2828++ mhz, but was so loose in memory settings it was pitiful, stuff like 2T & more & I don't want it like that IF I can help it! 

(I would like "tight" (purely relative term of course) as possible mem timings).

It was even alright @ THAT speed for most things (like websurfing, email, etc.) but, NOT for passing thru the ScienceMark 2.0 program & that is one of the tests I demand it pass thru, as a stability marker.

See - one of my concerns here is getting the RAM-mhz return to be as near DDR-400 200mhz as is possible!

By using the 11x multiplier, & hitting 2750mhz on the CPU? I got 196/200mhz of it back... that's a 98% "ROI" (return on investment)...

Now, using the 12x multiplier & hitting 2773mhz on the CPU?? I get "only" 185/200mhz of it back (representing a 93% "ROI").

(That is about as "loose" here as I want to go though, I don't want "sub 90%" returns on my RAM speed, or imo @ least? Things that are memory intensive will suffer, regardless of DMA access &/or AMD HyperTransport LDT memory speed advantages)... 

* NO BIOS UPDATE IS POSSIBLE AFAIK, & YES, IT MAXES OUT IN MY BIOS @ THAT VOLTAGE!

(Guess that blows, lol!)

Oh well... & I think I need to pickup some better RAM, if I want faster speeds still, but it cannot hurt to have you guys look over the stuff from my BIOS either I suppose, just in case there is SOME setting that can be 'cranked up' even more...

There is, in 1 case that I have found already - a memory setting -> Row Precharge Time Trp = 3T (that can go down to 2T & I don't "bsod").

APK

P.S.=> My BIOS data, once more, in case you guys CAN see a way for me to tighten up anything else in memory etc. & if not? I am apparently "maxed-out" for now:

*LDT DATA:*

CPU HTT Frequency = 4x

*DRAM CONFIGURATION:*

CAS# Latency Tcl = 2
Min RAS# Active Time Tras = 5T
RAS# to CAS# Delay Trcl = 3T
Row Precharge Time Trp = 3T
Row Cycle Time Trc = 10T
Row Refresh Cycle Time Trk = 13T
Read to Write Trwt = 3T
Write Recovery Time = 3T
1t/2t = 1t

*JUMPER FREE CONFIGURATION DATA:*

O/C Profile = Manual
CPU Frequency = 231mhz
PCI Clock = 100mhz
DDR Voltage = AUTO (cannot do over 2.6v on my RAM, tried it already 2x)
Chipset Voltage = 1.6V (max)
HT Voltage = 1.25V (max)
CPU Mult = 12x
CPU Volt = 1.5V (max)

apk


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 3, 2006)

Ok, here is my score on ScienceMark 2.0, at the current settings noted this a.m.!

(While it's still cool enough to run the test reliably in this damned heatwave we're seeing (weeks on end over 100F, ugh! Perfect time to test stability of an overclock imo, though...))

*CPU-z 1.35 CPU-mhz data (~2773mhz - a 373mhz overdriven gain):*






*CPU-z 1.35 RAM-mhz data (~185/200mhz - a "ROI" of 93%):*






(This is w/ out setting my BIOS memory setting of RAS Precharge to 2, it is still 2 here in this photo though (recycling, as imo, the MOST important part for you guys to scan is my BIOS data @ this point) but I did run this test only minutes ago, using 3T for that!)

*ScienceMark 2.0 score (increased from 1392 -> 1401.11 (my highest yet on 12x mult. & very near to my 11.5x "fractional" & frowned upon mult. X 249mhz FSB score of 1401.20)):*






*My BIOS data for overclocking used (per your requests):*

*LDT DATA:*

CPU HTT Frequency = 4x

*DRAM CONFIGURATION:*

CAS# Latency Tcl = 2
Min RAS# Active Time Tras = 5T
RAS# to CAS# Delay Trcl = 3T
Row Precharge Time Trp = 3T
Row Cycle Time Trc = 10T
Row Refresh Cycle Time Trk = 13T
Read to Write Trwt = 3T
Write Recovery Time = 3T
1t/2t = 1t

*JUMPER FREE CONFIGURATION DATA:*

O/C Profile = Manual
CPU Frequency = 231mhz
PCI Clock = 100mhz
DDR Voltage = AUTO (cannot do over 2.6v on my RAM, tried it already 2x)
Chipset Voltage = 1.6V (max)
HT Voltage = 1.25V (max)
CPU Mult = 12x
CPU Volt = 1.5V (max)



* Overall, it's looking pretty GOOD @ this 12x multiplier setup so far...

I have gotten a GOOD CPU-mhz increase over 11x/11.5x multiplier X 249mhz FSB settings (2750mhz & 2753mhz respectively on CPU @ best) & though I took a small loss in RAM-mhz return (from 196/200mhz using 11x mult, to 185/200mhz using 12x mult), I gain overall in this benchmark/stress test program!

Which is GOOD & NO "FRACTIONAL MULTIPLIER" usage anymore either: BONUS!

APK

P.S.=> I will give the RAS Precharge 2T setting a shot!

Plus, if you guys can spot ANYTHING ELSE in my BIOS DRAM Configuration "Ram memory timing-chain" numbers that bears a bit of inspection &/or possible tweaking? Let me know... thanks!

Otherwise? It's looking to be "maxed-out"...

LOL: & all I wanted? Was to hit 2.6ghz... 

Thanks to you guys here (mostly Tatty One, Ketxxx, & POGE) though?? 

I am WELL past that & most importantly??? STABLE, even in the "heatwave of Summer 2006" worldwide... I can't complain & learned a LOT more than I knew before on o/c'ing, this is certain I can assure you! apk


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 7, 2006)

*CPU-z 1.35 CPU-mhz data:*






*CPU-z 1.35 RAM-mhz data:*






*ScienceMark 2.0 Score:*






*LDT DATA:*

CPU HTT Frequency = 4x

*DRAM CONFIGURATION:*

CAS# Latency Tcl = 2
Min RAS# Active Time Tras = 5T
RAS# to CAS# Delay Trcl = 3T
Row Precharge Time Trp = 3T
Row Cycle Time Trc = 10T
Row Refresh Cycle Time Trk = 13T
Read to Write Trwt = 3T
Write Recovery Time = 3T
1t/2t = 1t

*JUMPER FREE CONFIGURATION DATA:*

O/C Profile = Manual
CPU Frequency = 231mhz
PCI Clock = 100mhz
DDR Voltage = AUTO (cannot do over 2.6v on my RAM, tried it already 2x)
Chipset Voltage = 1.6V (max)
HT Voltage = 1.25V (max)
CPU Mult = 12x
CPU Volt = 1.5V (max)



* It turns out here, that I could get more out of my machine!

(1390 -> 1401.22 -> 1414.29 score by this 3rd test) 

This is doubtless because temps are now "only" around 90F today outside, vs. the 100++ I was testing in last round... 

APK

P.S.=> This IS it for me folks, I can really do no better, & it turned out that 11x multiplier is the BEST for me, because same mhz as 12x multipliers usage, BUT, far better RAM-mhz return on investment "ROI" of 198/200mhz... apk


----------



## Ketxxx (Aug 7, 2006)

PM sent alec. let me know and i'll play catchup on this thread


----------



## Tatty_One (Aug 7, 2006)

Lol I knew all along that 11x was best for your system!  I have just bought some Corsair TwinX Pro 4000 @ DDR500 so this baby is gonna rock!  Also got a Venice 3800+ to play around with until the guy who is buying my 4200+ gets paid (next week) so am gonna try to get her to 2.9Gig with memory running near to 500 speed.

Also had to warranty return my 7900GT, well I didnt but decided if I am going to go for this Conroe system in a couple of months I needed to save my pennies so I will end up with a 3800+ and a 512MB 1800XT for a short while before my conroe and hopefully 1900XT unless I see a glimmer of DX10 around Christmas and if so I will wait till the nextgen cards arrive rather than spending even more.

Bottom line is....for a short term compromise  with money back for 7900GT, getting a real good clearance deal on the 1800XT, selling the 4200+ for £100 more than I paid for it, getting more on E Bay for my Corsair Value RAM than I paid for the TwinX Pro I made almost £200 towards the conroe rig @ Christmas.

Will update specs tomorrow once installed and working.


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 7, 2006)

Tatty_One said:
			
		

> Lol I knew all along that 11x was best for your system!



Well, it certainly IS looking & "working-out" THAT VERY WAY!

(The "Force is with YOU" Luke... must be, lol!)



			
				Tatty_One said:
			
		

> Will update specs tomorrow once installed and working.



Do that!

(It sounds like you're out to build a "KILLER" machine by enhancing yours... starting w/ better RAM sounds like!)

& I don't blame you!

BUT - those conroes have started showing up (Devious (e66000), Gri3f (e66000), & MikeLopez (e63000) have them already here on these forums) & they DO "kick our AMD butts"... bad!

* See the ScienceMark 2.0 &/or Super-Pi threads... be amazed, if you haven't already!

APK

P.S.=> Going to work on a tip Ketxxx gave me in "PM" to increase my memory bandwidth, which is open up the TRas setting for RAM... he gave me a good explanation on WHY it's done, so time to check it out! 

See ya, & thanks again guys (Ketxxx & you also Tatty_One)... apk


----------



## Tatty_One (Aug 7, 2006)

Yes I know, I have seen them...I want a 6700!!!! but I will be patient and wait 3 months, as I will need the Mobo and DDR2 also as well as probably upgrading the 1800XT if DX10 is still a way away.


----------



## cdawall (Aug 7, 2006)

Tatty_One said:
			
		

> Yes I know, I have seen them...I want a 6700!!!! but I will be patient and wait 3 months, as I will need the Mobo and DDR2 also as well as probably upgrading the 1800XT if DX10 is still a way away.


let me some that up in one word RICH 
when i get a new computer this one will be smoking or on fire that is were i set


----------



## Tatty_One (Aug 8, 2006)

cdawall said:
			
		

> let me some that up in one word RICH
> when i get a new computer this one will be smoking or on fire that is were i set



lol, not quite rich but not badly off but I am prob a bit older than the average age in here.  I still just cannot justify (in part to the wife) going out and spending obscene sums of money on what is really a "hobby".  So I tend to do a bit of dealing, be patient, wait for clearance deals, use the kit for a while, sell at a profit, by more clearance and after a short while I have raised the basis of a nice system, then come Christmas I just get the wife to add say £200 ($310US) more and I have the system.

But to be fair, you have to have some money to start that going, I dont mind going from a 4200 x2 to a 3800+ @2.8/2.9Gig for 3 months to acheive my "ultimate system", for most of what I do I will see little difference in performance between the dual core and single core chips but in the futuure and probably not more than a couple of years away I think it's going to be very hard to get your hands on a single core.  Even going from a 7900GT to an 1800XT (although some would say thats an improvement!) is not a prob for me in the short term either.


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 8, 2006)

*Ketxxx, see BIOS DATA SECTION @ bottom... thanks!*

*CPU-z 1.35 CPU-mhz (2787 mhz):*






&

*CPU-z 1.35 RAM-mhz (199.8/200mhz):*






* Check it out (got more outta it, but it is due to my running this test in the EARLY a.m. here, when temps are very low, imo @ least so far):

*ScienceMark 2.0 new high score for me (1423.57):*








*BIOS DATA:*

CPU HTT Frequency = 4x

*DRAM CONFIGURATION:*

CAS# Latency Tcl = 2
Min RAS# Active Time Tras = 7T (down from 5T)
RAS# to CAS# Delay Trcl = 3T
Row Precharge Time Trp = 3T
Row Cycle Time Trc = 10T
Row Refresh Cycle Time Trk = 13T
Read to Write Trwt = 3T
Write Recovery Time = 3T
1t/2t = 1t

*JUMPER FREE CONFIGURATION DATA:*

O/C Profile = Manual
CPU Frequency = 253mhz
PCI Clock = 100mhz
DDR Voltage = AUTO (cannot do over 2.6v on my RAM, tried it already 2x)
Chipset Voltage = 1.6V (max)
HT Voltage = 1.25V (max)
CPU Mult = 12x
CPU Volt = 1.5V (max)

APK

P.S.=> Ketxxx, now that I have you here? Take a peek @ the stuff under "BIOS DATA" & if you see ANYTHING ELSE you think needs an adjustment?? Please, DO let me know... wanna try to beat Tigger69's Pentium D score in ScienceMark, lol... apk


----------



## Ketxxx (Aug 8, 2006)

Hmm...

you can try adjusting Trc and Trfc to 12 or 16. It should allow you to eek a few more MHz out your RAM and CPU. Adjusting Tras to 6,7 or 8 should see your bandwidth increase slightly as well. (will need to test all 3 Tras settings and run something like everest benchmark 2-3 times in a row. sandra probably isnt tuned enough to pick up the gains the adjusted tras values can potentially bring, 50MB\s or so, maybe more, maybe less)

If your RAM can take it changing Twr and Trtw to 2 should see your memory write speeds increase quite nicely as well. You could also try putting your HTT link to 5x. Hovering around 1000MHz is ideal, but take as much out the HTT link as you can get stable, it will increase the performance of your HDD performance slightly and probably give a small gain in SCM2 somewhere.

Your PCI-E clock you could adjust to 105MHz too. From an architectural standpoint Nvidia and ATi GPUs need the few extra PCI-E MHz to reduce any possible bottlenecking to 0%. Bare in mind however any PCI-E bottleneck @ 100MHz is already very small however, probably in the region of 0.02%.

Thats about everything from the details you given.


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 8, 2006)

*CPU-z 1.35 CPU-mhz data (2797mhz):*







&

*CPU-z 1.35 RAM-mhz data (199.8/200mhz):*






*ScienceMark 2.0 score:*








*BIOS OVERCLOCKING DATA (for reference):*

CPU HTT Frequency = 4x

*DRAM CONFIGURATION:*

CAS# Latency Tcl = 2
Min RAS# Active Time Tras = 7T
RAS# to CAS# Delay Trcl = 3T
Row Precharge Time Trp = 3T
Row Cycle Time Trc = 10T
Row Refresh Cycle Time Trk = 13T
Read to Write Trwt = 3T
Write Recovery Time = 3T
1t/2t = 1t

*JUMPER FREE CONFIGURATION DATA:*

O/C Profile = Manual
CPU Frequency = 253mhz
PCI Clock = 100mhz
DDR Voltage = AUTO (cannot do over 2.6v on my RAM, tried it already 2x)
Chipset Voltage = 1.6V (max)
HT Voltage = 1.25V (max)
CPU Mult = 11x
CPU Volt = 1.5V (max)

APK

P.S.=> Ketxxx, now that I have you here? Take a peek @ the stuff under "BIOS DATA" & if you see ANYTHING ELSE you think needs an adjustment?? Please, DO let me know... wanna try to beat Tigger69's Pentium D score in ScienceMark, lol... apk


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 8, 2006)

Ketxxx said:
			
		

> Hmm...
> 
> you can try adjusting Trc and Trfc to 12 or 16. It should allow you to eek a few more MHz out your RAM and CPU. Adjusting Tras to 6,7 or 8 should see your bandwidth increase slightly as well. (will need to test all 3 Tras settings and run something like everest benchmark 2-3 times in a row. sandra probably isnt tuned enough to pick up the gains the adjusted tras values can potentially bring, 50MB\s or so, maybe more, maybe less)
> 
> ...



Excellent, will do - I am GOING to try to beat Tigger69's ScienceMark 2.0 score of 1430 & imo, this set of tips of yours is about ALL I can do to try to (other than taking my a/c unit in my window here & ducting its output RIGHT INTO MY RIG, lol, to keep it cold while tests run etc. (cheating imo)).

APK


----------



## Ketxxx (Aug 8, 2006)

Your reaching your peak. The setting adjustments i suggested you might be able to eek 2.85GHz, i dont see anything higher than that at all without better RAM to get rid  of the divider.


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 8, 2006)

Ketxxx said:
			
		

> Your reaching your peak. The setting adjustments i suggested you might be able to eek 2.85GHz, i dont see anything higher than that at all without better RAM to get rid  of the divider.



Well, yet again I redid them!

I got a BETTER score still than any yet (1428++), by using settings "in-between" what you outlined as guidelines!

(See, I don't expect you to be a "magician" or "Jedi Knight" using the force to get the EXACT numbers for it remotely - probably impossible, but you DO give me GOOD solid guidelines)!

*CPU-z 1.35 CPU-mhz (2798mhz):*






&

*CPU-z 1.35 RAM-mhz (199.8/200mhz):*






*ScienceMark 2.0 Score @ those settings above, & BIOS settings below:*








*BIOS OVERCLOCKING DATA (for reference):*

CPU HTT Frequency = 4x

*DRAM CONFIGURATION:*

CAS# Latency Tcl = 2
Min RAS# Active Time Tras = 8T (up from 7T)
RAS# to CAS# Delay Trcl = 3T
Row Precharge Time Trp = 3T
Row Cycle Time Trc = 12T (up from 10T)
Row Refresh Cycle Time Trk = 13T
Read to Write Trwt = 2T (down from 3T)
Write Recovery Time = 2T (down from 3T)
1t/2t = 1t

*JUMPER FREE CONFIGURATION DATA:*

O/C Profile = Manual
CPU Frequency = 254mhz
PCI Clock = 101mhz (upped from 100mhz default)
DDR Voltage = AUTO (cannot do over 2.6v on my RAM, tried it already 2x)
Chipset Voltage = 1.6V (max)
HT Voltage = 1.25V (max)
CPU Mult = 11x
CPU Volt = 1.5V (max)

*TECHPOWERUP FORUMS SCIENCEMARK 2.0 BENCHMARK CURRENT STANDINGS AS OF 08/08/2006:*

*Devious* = 2181.97 (Intel Core2Duo E6600@3942mhz)
*MikeLopez* = 1700.24 (via 7x mult. X 428mhz FSB - Intel Core2Duo E6300@2996mhz)
*Urlyin* = 1537.93 (175 Dual Core Opteron @2800mhz)
*Dj Dn* = 1446.18 (Opteron 165 2700mhz)
*Alec§taar* = 1431.58 (via 11x mult. X 255mhz FSB: AMD ATHLON 64X2 4800+ CPU@2809mhz & RAM@200/200mhz)
*Tigger69* = 1431.51 (Pentium D930@4385mhz)
*_33* = 1395.99 (AMD ATHLON 64 3000+@2856MHZ)
*Lekamies* = 1371.23 (AMD ATLHON 64 3000+@2700mhz)
*Steevo* = 1360 (AMD 4000+ San Diego @ 3.0 1.65vcore)
*JNT Raptor* = 1334.32 (AMD ATHLON X2 3800+@2616mhz)
*pt* = 1256.23 (AMD ATLHON 64 3000+@2500mhz)
*Ketxxx* = 1140.97 (A64 3200+ @ 2.55GHz - Winchester)
*Canuto* = 1112.11 (Pentium D 930 @ 3300mhz)
*cdawall* = 1036.22 (AMD ATHLON 64 3000+@2440mhz)
*Polaris573* = 1001.86 (P4 Northwood@3.2GHz)
*Solaris17* = 886.72 (AMD ATHLON XP@2340MHZ)



* There ya are: Updated (w/ MY updated/better score, 2 points better than before)...

APK

P.S.=> Can't QUITE get to Tigger69's 1431, yet (wait until winter lol) & I am happy w/ my progress here in the ScienceMark 2.0 benchmark & stability tests here on these forums: 

1390 -> 1401 -> 1414 -> 1423 -> 1426 -> 1428 -> 1432... 

IMO @ least - I'm not going to catch Tigger69 today, it's heating up outside by this point, but I am happy though thusfar & I think I am "peaking-out" as you say... 

Tigger69's @ 1431, & now? I am ONLY 3 points behind, & I can live w/ that... lol! apk


----------



## Ketxxx (Aug 8, 2006)

heh, good solid baseline is what i do  hitting the magic numbers off the bat is impossible, but with the amount of system tweaking ive done in my time, not much stumps me  bout my only brick wall is components physical hardware limits, if only i could disect a GPU and tweak that too


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 8, 2006)

Ketxxx said:
			
		

> heh, good solid baseline is what i do  hitting the magic numbers off the bat is impossible, but with the amount of system tweaking ive done in my time, not much stumps me  bout my only brick wall is components physical hardware limits, if only i could disect a GPU and tweak that too



Then, I will give that a go!

255FSB in BIOS, w/ the looser timings you mentioned initially!

I.E.-> Trc/Trfc 12 or 16
Tras 8
Twr & Trtw 2
PCI Clock 101 (up to 105)

Most are done now, except for the Trc/Trfc being THAT loose (16 especially)...

Your saying that 285 isn't unrealistic (earlier on here or in the ScienceMark 2.0 thread) using them, which is GOOD, is something for me to try when it cools down tomorrow a.m.!

(Gonna beat Tigger69, lol!)



* Thanks man!

APK


----------



## Ketxxx (Aug 8, 2006)

np  i might go a bit gung-ho and buy a a8r32-mvp deluxe as the rd580 is supposed to stomp on the nf4, would be a nice combo for a venice 3200, some ddr600, and a godlike 650w psu


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Aug 8, 2006)

looks like i'm gonna have to be careful alec,lol.you're getting closer to my score.

i'm not sure if i can get anymore outta mine either,so i'm kinda glad you've maxxed out now.

tho' i mite just have to try i think...


----------



## Ketxxx (Aug 8, 2006)

tigger69 said:
			
		

> looks like i'm gonna have to be careful alec,lol.you're getting closer to my score.
> 
> i'm not sure if i can get anymore outta mine either,so i'm kinda glad you've maxxed out now.
> 
> tho' i mite just have to try i think...



and just think, i havent even tried yet and my stock score was 1140, worried?


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Aug 8, 2006)

so even tho it says 2.55 in your spec,you benched it stock?.


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 8, 2006)

tigger69 said:
			
		

> looks like i'm gonna have to be careful alec,lol.you're getting closer to my score.



Well, yea, lol... that IS the idea!



* Tomorrow a.m., when it's GOOD & COLD outside? I'll go for it... via 255 fsb!

APK

P.S.=> I like my AMD even more now (especially after folks here 'tuned me in' on how its LDT/HTT work (single bus unified controller, vs. Northbridge/Southbridge stuff on Intel rigs, where I largely HAIL from no less)), but EVEN MORESO than that now!

Especially after an observation I just made:

Wanna know why? 

*Tigger69* = *1431.51* (Pentium D930@*4385mhz*)
*Alec§taar* = *1428.17* (AMD ATHLON 64X2 4800+ CPU@*2797mhz* & RAM@199.8/200mhz)

Because it shows my AMD doing basically the same amount of work your Intel is doing, BUT, my AMD is only using 65% as many cpu cycles as were used by your Intel CPU... to get the SAME AMOUNT OF WORK DONE, no less!

(Disclaimer - avid user & current owner of BOTH cpu family types)

Still, do think about it... apk


----------



## Ketxxx (Aug 8, 2006)

tigger69 said:
			
		

> so even tho it says 2.55 in your spec,you benched it stock?.



yep, obtain a good base to work with first. OCers rule number 1


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 9, 2006)

*Tigger69: "New NEWS"...*

*CPU-z 1.35 CPU-mhz data (2809mhz @ 255 FSB x 11 multiplier):*






&

*CPU-z 1.35 RAM-mhz data (200/200mhz):*






*ScienceMark 2.0 Score:*








*BIOS OVERCLOCKING DATA (for reference):*

CPU HTT Frequency = 4x

*DRAM CONFIGURATION:*

CAS# Latency Tcl = 2
Min RAS# Active Time Tras = 8T (up from 7T)
RAS# to CAS# Delay Trcl = 3T
Row Precharge Time Trp = 3T
Row Cycle Time Trc = 12T (up from 10T)
Row Refresh Cycle Time Trk = 13T
Read to Write Trwt = 2T (down from 3T)
Write Recovery Time = 2T (down from 3T)
1t/2t = 1t

*JUMPER FREE CONFIGURATION DATA:*

O/C Profile = Manual
CPU Frequency = 255mhz
PCI Clock = 101mhz (upped from 100mhz default)
DDR Voltage = AUTO (cannot do over 2.6v on my RAM, tried it already 2x)
Chipset Voltage = 1.6V (max)
HT Voltage = 1.25V (max)
CPU Mult = 11x
CPU Volt = 1.5V (max)

* And, I'm STILL not done yet...

*************************************************
SCIENCEMARK 2.0 RESULTS 08/08/2006 BY SCORE ONLY:
*************************************************


*Devious* = *2181.97* (Intel Core2Duo E6600@3942mhz)

*MikeLopez* = *1700.24* (via 7x mult. X 428mhz FSB - Intel Core2Duo E6300@2996mhz)

*Urlyin* = *1537.93* (175 Dual Core Opteron @2800mhz)

*Dj Dn* = *1461.97* (Opteron 165 2700mhz)

*g12rxz* = *1437.66* (AMD Athlon 64x2 n4200+ @ 2.6ghz o/c)

*Alec§taar* = *1431.58* (AMD Athlon 64x2 4800+/11x X 255mhz FSB/CPU@2809 & RAM@200/200)

*Tigger69* = *1431.51* (Pentium D930@4385mhz)

*33* = *1395.99* (AMD ATHLON 64 3000+@2856MHZ)

*gri3f* = *1391.08* (Intel Core2Duo E6600@ stock oem mhz)

*JNT Raptor* = *1383.82* (AMD ATHLON x2 3800+@2703mhz)

*Lekamies* = *1371.23* (AMD ATLHON 64 3000+@2700mhz)

*Steevo* = *1360* (AMD 4000+ San Diego @ 3.0 1.65vcore)

*pt* = *1256.23* (AMD ATLHON 64 3000+@2500mhz)

*randomperson* = *1208.27* (AMD ATHLON x2 3800+@2400mhz)

*Ketxxx* = *1140.97* (A64 3200+ @ 2GHz - Winchester)

*Canuto* = *1112.11* (Pentium D 930 @ 3300mhz)

*cdawall* = *1036.22* (AMD ATHLON 64 3000+@2440mhz)

*W2hCYK* = *1011.54* (P4 Prescott@2400mhz)

*Polaris573* = *1001.86* (P4 Northwood@3.2GHz)

*MikeLopez* = *1000.03* (AMD 3400 (S754))

*Solaris17* = *886.72* (AMD ATHLON XP@2340MHZ)
=================================================

APK


----------



## Tatty_One (Aug 9, 2006)

I am gonna try my new temporary rig tonite on the test, I managed to prime her at 3.0Gig  last night on 1.55v!  albeit only had time for a 33 minute test, today i should receive my Corasir TwinX Pro 4000 500MHz ram so will give it a go, hoping to hit what?.....1475+? not sure, got my old rig to 1432 (4200 x2@2.8Gig) with crap ram @400Mhz (11x255) - will keep you posted.


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 9, 2006)

*Tigger69: More "NEW News" still...*

*CPU-z 1.35 CPU-mhz data (2816.3mhz @ 256 FSB x 11 multiplier):*






&

*CPU-z 1.35 RAM-mhz data (201/200mhz):*






*ScienceMark 2.0 Score:*








*BIOS OVERCLOCKING DATA (for reference):*

CPU HTT Frequency = 4x

*DRAM CONFIGURATION:*

CAS# Latency Tcl = 2
Min RAS# Active Time Tras = 8T (up from 7T)
RAS# to CAS# Delay Trcl = 3T
Row Precharge Time Trp = 3T
Row Cycle Time Trc = 12T (up from 10T)
Row Refresh Cycle Time Trk = 13T
Read to Write Trwt = 2T (down from 3T)
Write Recovery Time = 2T (down from 3T)
1t/2t = 1t

*JUMPER FREE CONFIGURATION DATA:*

O/C Profile = Manual
CPU Frequency = 255mhz
PCI Clock = 101mhz (upped from 100mhz default)
DDR Voltage = AUTO (cannot do over 2.6v on my RAM, tried it already 2x)
Chipset Voltage = 1.6V (max)
HT Voltage = 1.25V (max)
CPU Mult = 11x
CPU Volt = 1.5V (max)

* And, I'm STILL not done yet...

*************************************************
SCIENCEMARK 2.0 RESULTS 08/08/2006 BY SCORE ONLY:
*************************************************


*Devious* = *2181.97* (Intel Core2Duo E6600@3942mhz)

*MikeLopez* = *1700.24* (via 7x mult. X 428mhz FSB - Intel Core2Duo E6300@2996mhz)

*Urlyin* = *1537.93* (175 Dual Core Opteron @2800mhz)

*Dj Dn* = *1461.97* (Opteron 165 2700mhz)

*Alec§taar* = *1438.09* (AMD Athlon 64x2 4800+/11x X 256mhz FSB/CPU@2816 & RAM@201/200)

*g12rxz* = *1437.66* (AMD Athlon 64x2 n4200+ @ 2.6ghz o/c)

*Tigger69* = *1431.51* (Pentium D930@4385mhz)

*33* = *1395.99* (AMD ATHLON 64 3000+@2856MHZ)

*gri3f* = *1391.08* (Intel Core2Duo E6600@ stock oem mhz)

*JNT Raptor* = *1383.82* (AMD ATHLON x2 3800+@2703mhz)

*Lekamies* = *1371.23* (AMD ATLHON 64 3000+@2700mhz)

*Steevo* = *1360* (AMD 4000+ San Diego @ 3.0 1.65vcore)

*pt* = *1256.23* (AMD ATLHON 64 3000+@2500mhz)

*randomperson* = *1208.27* (AMD ATHLON x2 3800+@2400mhz)

*Ketxxx* = *1140.97* (A64 3200+ @ 2GHz - Winchester)

*Canuto* = *1112.11* (Pentium D 930 @ 3300mhz)

*cdawall* = *1036.22* (AMD ATHLON 64 3000+@2440mhz)

*W2hCYK* = *1011.54* (P4 Prescott@2400mhz)

*Polaris573* = *1001.86* (P4 Northwood@3.2GHz)

*MikeLopez* = *1000.03* (AMD 3400 (S754))

*Solaris17* = *886.72* (AMD ATHLON XP@2340MHZ)
=================================================

APK


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 9, 2006)

*CPU-z 1.35 CPU-mhz data (2827.2mhz @ 257 FSB x 11 multiplier):*






&

*CPU-z 1.35 RAM-mhz data (201.9/200mhz):*






*ScienceMark 2.0 Score:*








*BIOS OVERCLOCKING DATA (for reference):*

CPU HTT Frequency = 4x

*DRAM CONFIGURATION:*

CAS# Latency Tcl = 2
Min RAS# Active Time Tras = 8T (up from 7T)
RAS# to CAS# Delay Trcl = 3T
Row Precharge Time Trp = 3T
Row Cycle Time Trc = 12T (up from 10T)
Row Refresh Cycle Time Trk = 13T
Read to Write Trwt = 2T (down from 3T)
Write Recovery Time = 2T (down from 3T)
1t/2t = 1t

*JUMPER FREE CONFIGURATION DATA:*

O/C Profile = Manual
CPU Frequency = 255mhz
PCI Clock = 101mhz (upped from 100mhz default)
DDR Voltage = AUTO (cannot do over 2.6v on my RAM, tried it already 2x)
Chipset Voltage = 1.6V (max)
HT Voltage = 1.25V (max)
CPU Mult = 11x
CPU Volt = 1.5V (max)

* And, I'm STILL not done yet...

*************************************************
SCIENCEMARK 2.0 RESULTS 08/08/2006 BY SCORE ONLY:
*************************************************


*Devious* = *2181.97* (Intel Core2Duo E6600@3942mhz)

*MikeLopez* = *1700.24* (via 7x mult. X 428mhz FSB - Intel Core2Duo E6300@2996mhz)

*Urlyin* = *1537.93* (175 Dual Core Opteron @2800mhz)

*Dj Dn* = *1461.97* (Opteron 165 2700mhz)

*Alec§taar* = *1440.60* (AMD Athlon 64x2 4800+/11x X 257mhz FSB/CPU@2827.1mhz & RAM@202/200mhz)

*g12rxz* = *1437.66* (AMD Athlon 64x2 n4200+ @ 2.6ghz o/c)

*Tigger69* = *1431.51* (Pentium D930@4385mhz)

*33* = *1395.99* (AMD ATHLON 64 3000+@2856MHZ)

*gri3f* = *1391.08* (Intel Core2Duo E6600@ stock oem mhz)

*JNT Raptor* = *1383.82* (AMD ATHLON x2 3800+@2703mhz)

*Lekamies* = *1371.23* (AMD ATLHON 64 3000+@2700mhz)

*Steevo* = *1360* (AMD 4000+ San Diego @ 3.0 1.65vcore)

*pt* = *1256.23* (AMD ATLHON 64 3000+@2500mhz)

*randomperson* = *1208.27* (AMD ATHLON x2 3800+@2400mhz)

*Ketxxx* = *1140.97* (A64 3200+ @ 2GHz - Winchester)

*Canuto* = *1112.11* (Pentium D 930 @ 3300mhz)

*cdawall* = *1036.22* (AMD ATHLON 64 3000+@2440mhz)

*W2hCYK* = *1011.54* (P4 Prescott@2400mhz)

*Polaris573* = *1001.86* (P4 Northwood@3.2GHz)

*MikeLopez* = *1000.03* (AMD 3400 (S754))

*Solaris17* = *886.72* (AMD ATHLON XP@2340MHZ)
=================================================

APK


----------



## Ketxxx (Aug 9, 2006)

muahahahaa, i said just a few more mhz and ud have him alec  nice job


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 9, 2006)

Ketxxx said:
			
		

> muahahahaa, i said just a few more mhz and ud have him alec  nice job



Heh, thanks for the "props" & all that - couldn't have done it w/ out you guys here! Especially YOU!

* Temps man... temps!

(That's all it was holding me back, the heatwave!)

Now, to get BETTER more "overclock-ready" RAM, & I'll see what I can REALLY do, via a 12x multiplier instead of 11x... because right now? I cannot pull of a 258mhz FSB & complete ScienceMark 2.0 (fails on 10th-12th loop of its 2nd test, "Primordia")

APK

P.S.=> Thanks for all your help...


----------



## Tatty_One (Aug 9, 2006)

Nice Alec....you are getting some nice results there!  with that faster RAM you will be nudging towards 1500!


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 9, 2006)

Tatty_One said:
			
		

> Nice Alec....you are getting some nice results there!



Ah, thank you man!



* She is "getting there" & turned out a decent performing rig after all... & decent overclocker!



			
				Tatty_One said:
			
		

> with that faster RAM you will be nudging towards 1500!



That's EXACTLY what I am hoping for: I always wondered WHY "overclockers/gamers" always went for the "cadillac type RAM", & NOW?

I know!

APK


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 9, 2006)

*Latest Apk Overclock & Sciencemark 2.0 Standings*

*CPU-z 1.35 CPU-mhz data (2827.2mhz @ 257 FSB x 11 multiplier):*






&

*CPU-z 1.35 RAM-mhz data (201.9/200mhz):*






*ScienceMark 2.0 Score:*








*BIOS OVERCLOCKING DATA (for reference):*

CPU HTT Frequency = 4x

*DRAM CONFIGURATION:*

CAS# Latency Tcl = 2
Min RAS# Active Time Tras = 8T (up from 7T)
RAS# to CAS# Delay Trcl = 3T
Row Precharge Time Trp = 3T
Row Cycle Time Trc = 16T (up from 12T (up from 10T))
Row Refresh Cycle Time Trk = 13T
Read to Write Trwt = 2T (down from 3T)
Write Recovery Time = 2T (down from 3T)
1t/2t = 1t

*JUMPER FREE CONFIGURATION DATA:*

O/C Profile = Manual
CPU Frequency = 257mhz
PCI Clock = 101mhz (upped from 100mhz default)
DDR Voltage = AUTO (cannot do over 2.6v on my RAM, tried it already 2x)
Chipset Voltage = 1.6V (max)
HT Voltage = 1.25V (max)
CPU Mult = 11x
CPU Volt = 1.5V (max)

* WELL! @ last: I'm done... (for now, lol!)

***************************************************
SCIENCEMARK 2.0 RESULTS 08/15/2006 "TOP 10 L33T" CLUB:
***************************************************

*Devious* = *2181.97* (Intel Core2Duo E6600@3942mhz)

*MikeLopez* = *1700.24* (via 7x mult. X 428mhz FSB - Intel Core2Duo E6300@2996mhz)

*Urlyin* = *1537.93* (175 Dual Core Opteron @2800mhz)

*giorgos.th* = *1524.73* (A64 3700+ SD @ 3.0 ghz (275.49*11))

*g R 3 i F^^* = *1487.73* (Intel Core2Duo E6600@ stock 305FSBx9mult)

*Dj Dn* = *1461.97* (Opteron 165 2700mhz)

*Tigger69* = *1441.51* (Pentium D930@4416.8mhz)

*Alec§taar* = *1440.60* (AMD Athlon 64x2 4800+/11x X 257mhz FSB/CPU@2827.2 & RAM@201.9/200)

*g12rxz* = *1437.66* (AMD Athlon 64x2 n4200+ @ 2.6ghz o/c)

*lapenski^^* = *1426.95* (AMD Opteron 148 @2860.4mhz)
=================================================
*TOP 10 AVERAGE RESULT = 1564.13*
=================================================

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=14736&page=58

APK


----------



## X800 (Aug 19, 2006)

How much can i raise the core voltage before it destoys my x2 ?


----------



## Judas (Aug 19, 2006)

AMD Athlon64 x2 4800+,(2827.2mhz @ 257 FSB x 11 multiplier):

You should be able to go a little bit futher with yur 4800  i just bought the 4200 and its siting at 2.7 ghz now my memory wont go much futher ,so ill have to get some new memory so i can push it further...Also water cooling is in the pipelines .But at the moment i am happy with 2.7 ghz  

http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kuva050bz2.jpg

sorry its a bit Large.. the pic...


----------



## Tatty_One (Aug 19, 2006)

X800 said:


> How much can i raise the core voltage before it destoys my x2 ?




VERY max of 1.6V...try to keep her to 1.55V if you can, you will get a decent overclock from that and less heat issues.


----------



## Alec§taar (Aug 19, 2006)

Judas said:


> AMD Athlon64 x2 4800+,(2827.2mhz @ 257 FSB x 11 multiplier):
> 
> You should be able to go a little bit futher with yur 4800  i just bought the 4200 and its siting at 2.7 ghz now my memory wont go much futher ,so ill have to get some new memory so i can push it further...Also water cooling is in the pipelines .But at the moment i am happy with 2.7 ghz
> 
> ...



It's ok, pictures backup your statements & are verifiers we can use.

I only hit 923.6 HT Link vs. your 983.1 HT Link (new in CPU-z 1.36 apparently vs. the older one's screenshots I used above) & I can only go 1.5V on core too... I think my mobo has limits yours may not? I don't know...

* Memory timings/tab data, Judas: Can you provide a screenshot of those??

Thanks! I ask for this, because the guys here are pretty fairly convinced THAT (the RAM I use) is my MAJOR 'detractor/barrier' to higher o/c's, & the RAM I use is not "special overclocker-ready" type RAM... using dividers & what-not here.

APK


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## Judas (Aug 19, 2006)

Here >>


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## Alec§taar (Aug 19, 2006)

You might be able to do better, there, as I see a:

2.5-4-4-8-16-2T-16

Timing chain number @ a 2T commandrate (nice 254++ RAM-mhz return speed too over there)...

From what I heard here, going from 2t - 1t yields a big speed gain, memory-wise...

APK


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## Ketxxx (Aug 19, 2006)

Yes and no. If you think in terms of memory read speeds, they remain virtually uneffected by a 2T command rate, if however you consider write speeds, thats where 2T takes its toll. Having a huge pool of bandwidth is useless without fetch times being acceptable. A better example is to take say a system with 7GB\s of bandwidth available, but operating at 2T, that in turn lowers write speeds vs 1T.

Overall a system operating under 1T, but perhaps with slightly more lax timings than that of the system running 2T, will still outperform the 2T system. Why? because CPUs can't actively utilise all available bandwidth to them anyway, so while a system running 2T has 7GB\s and the 1T has say 6.7GB\s read bandwidth, the 2T system is no match in write operations (the switching of system data to and from memory) so while the 2T read bandwidth looks "impressive", its nowhere near as efficient as the system running 1T.

Sorry if thats not that clearstill, but it would take a hell of a long post explaining everything precisely.


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