# Sony Showcases Two PlayStation 5 Console Versions, Platform-Exclusive Next Generation Games



## Raevenlord (Jun 11, 2020)

Sony today via a livestream finally showcased their hardware design for the next generation of consoles, and let's get one thing right out of the way: the company will be launching two console versions. This is a relatively unexpected twist - unexpected, because if anything, we were expecting two new consoles from Microsoft (remember the Lockhart rumors?), not from Sony. However, the PS5 will be eventually launching in two versions - a mainline console, and an all-digital spinoff.

For now, details are all but absent - the only thing we know for sure is that the digital version of the PS5 won't be carrying a 4K BluRay player. That will undoubtedly reduce the final pricing of the digital version compared to the mainline console. It's unclear whether this console has some sort of streaming integration with a service such as PS Now, offloading games processing to the cloud. If it doesn't, though, and if the only hardware difference between the two versions is the presence of the 4K BluRay player, we're likely talking about a $100/€100 difference - tops. Remember that the Xbox One S, which currently retails for around $250, too possesses a 4K Blu Ray player, so there's only so much that can be recouped from cutting that particular hardware piece. As you might've guessed by now, pricing is still being manifested as if it were a unicorn.



 

 

 

 












The overall PS5 design is a sleek combination of whites and blues - something that was already teased with the Dual Sense controller reveal. The design is like that of a sleek spacecraft, with organic curves, blue lighting and an Alienware-esque outlook, and is nothing like some expected the console to be in terms of size. It remains to be seen how Sony has managed to dissipate the heat being output by the admittedly powerful hardware inside the console - one would expect not to see a repeat of the roaring jet engine present in the PS4 Pro.

The look also raises the question of whether the console can lay on its side. The relatively thin design likely means the console is taller than the Xbox Series X, which could make it difficult to fit in some entertainment cabinets - whether vertically or horizontally. However, the existence of that black stand and the console's own curved design seem to put a horizontal orientation out of consideration; this could be a very, very relevant detail for some users. Take a peek at the PS5 hardware reveal trailer below.










When it comes to games, Sony showcased some known quantities from their first-party studios. Horizon: Forbidden West promises to expand on the world, gameplay and concepts seen in the original, amazing Horizon: Zero Dawn (which is hitting the PC scene soon enough, mind you). A new Ratchet and Clank game, under the subtitle Rift Apart, was also showcased. There was some Pixar-quality level of detail there, with the newfound power of the new SSD architecture showcasing nanosecond-level environment transitions, and raytracing being very well-represented in real-time reflections.

Gran Turismo 7 was also showcased, with unprecedented, jaw-dropping levels of detail seen on car models, real-time environment reflections being showcased on the cars' sides and hoods, and beautiful lighting. A new, PS5-exclusive Square Enix game in the form of Project Athia is being developed by Luminous Productions, the same developers of Final Fantasy XV, though not much was shown regarding that one. That's just some of the games, and below, are some of the trailers. Check a complete list of the revealed games after the videos, by order of reveal in the livestream.














































Games announced on the PlayStation livestream:



> Grand Theft Auto 5 ("expanded and enhanced" - Rockstar Games/2K) - 2021
> Spider-Man: Miles Morales (Insomniac Games) - Holiday 2020
> Gran Turismo 7 (Polyphony Digital) - TBA
> Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart (Insomniac Games) - TBA
> ...



*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## HossHuge (Jun 11, 2020)

Is it able to rest on it's side?  I'm not a fan of the look.


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## TheLostSwede (Jun 11, 2020)

I mean, the joypad was sort of a give away on the colour, but this is... I don't know, weird?
The disc model looks like it's got a beer belly...

Also, one more game trailer/tease.


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## ARF (Jun 11, 2020)

HossHuge said:


> Is it able to rest on it's side?  I'm not a fan of the look.



This is very important - to be able to place it horizontally in order to fit in narrow and short in height TV tables, etc furniture.


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## Raevenlord (Jun 11, 2020)

ARF said:


> This is very important - to be able to place it horizontally in order to fit in narrow and short in height TV tables, etc furniture.



Agreed, and failed to mention that in the original piece. Updated with the insights on this comment thread


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## Fouquin (Jun 11, 2020)

HossHuge said:


> Is it able to rest on it's side?  I'm not a fan of the look.







It's ugly as sin. Sony couldn't design an optical drive into the main chassis body without creating this modern art disaster? Yikes.


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## HossHuge (Jun 11, 2020)

Fouquin said:


> View attachment 158647
> 
> It's ugly as sin. Sony couldn't design an optical drive into the main chassis body without creating this modern art disaster? Yikes.


Looks worse on its side.


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## TheLostSwede (Jun 11, 2020)

Fouquin said:


> View attachment 158647
> 
> It's ugly as sin. Sony couldn't design an optical drive into the main chassis body without creating this modern art disaster? Yikes.


As we say where I come from "smaken är som baken, delad". It doesn't translate too well, but it's something alone the line of taste is like your butt, split/divided. Some people seem to like it, some hate it. I guess it's how it goes with most things with a fancy design...

Also, another teaser.


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## ARF (Jun 11, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> As we say where I come from "smaken är som baken, delad". It doesn't translate too well, but it's something alone the line of taste is like your butt, split/divided. Some people seem to like it, some hate it. I guess it's how it goes with most things with a fancy design...



To me the design looks like inspired by a perfect female figure - 90/60/90... Very weird - I bet women will like it more than men...


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## ROMUZ (Jun 11, 2020)

Fucking bluiesh LED


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 11, 2020)

HossHuge said:


> Is it able to rest on it's side?  I'm not a fan of the look.


Me neither. 

Also, the digital only version can suck it...



ROMUZ said:


> Fucking bluiesh LED


Yeah, really needs red.


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## Caring1 (Jun 11, 2020)

ARF said:


> To me the design looks like inspired by a perfect female figure


The bit between their legs?
I was thinking it looks like a clam shell on it's side, but whatever turns you on I guess.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 11, 2020)

I like it.


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## Fouquin (Jun 11, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> As we say where I come from "smaken är som baken, delad". It doesn't translate too well, but it's something alone the line of taste is like your butt, split/divided. Some people seem to like it, some hate it. I guess it's how it goes with most things with a fancy design...
> 
> Also, another teaser.



Oh I like the digital edition, it's aesthetically appealing. But the way they just bulged out the chassis and created this plastic tumor to house the optical drive... It's just gross. Thousands of slim laptop and desktop designs with an integrated optical drive, some from Sony themselves, and they settled on "just kinda stick it on the side and encase it in plastic. Yeah that's good."


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## Devastator0 (Jun 11, 2020)

HossHuge said:


> Is it able to rest on it's side?  I'm not a fan of the look.


Yeah, this is a big deal for me as well. I have all my consoles in a TV entertainment unit and I need to be able to have them sit horizontally. It's one of the reasons I'm not even considering an Xbox Series X


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## Metroid (Jun 11, 2020)

I'm disappointed they have not disclosed PS5's price and the only game that left a good impression so far was Square Enix, Project Athia and nothing else. I wonder if this will be the last fighting chance for consoles because the way things are going, I see consoles doomed, their existence in a distant future is very low.


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## Ravenas (Jun 11, 2020)

I like this design. At least they tried something other than just a rectangle.


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## Darmok N Jalad (Jun 11, 2020)

I don’t love it or hate it, but maybe a bit surprised by the design. I imagine it won’t look as extreme when the make a jet black edition. Also, the launch PS4 Pro had some noise, but the later revision was pretty quiet. At least nothing you could hear over the game audio. Anyway, my console would go behind my TV, so as long as there is a wall mount kit, we’re good.

Edit: Just watch the HZD and GT7 trailer. Sign me up. I don’t care if the XSX is faster, those games looked awesome enough for me.


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## rvalencia (Jun 12, 2020)

Mooooooo


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## Caring1 (Jun 12, 2020)




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## Rahnak (Jun 12, 2020)

Gotta say, I'm not a fan of the look or color scheme. I hope they make an all black version. Usually I'd wait and go for the slim model.. but they're coming out swinging with a new Spider-Man game. I may not be able to resist for long.  
There were some very interesting unexpected games in the presentation.

Also, great to see a digital only console! If the price difference is right, I'll pick up that one for sure.


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## Metroid (Jun 12, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Me neither.
> 
> Also, the digital only version can suck it...
> 
> ...



This makes no sense, the digital version should never exist and the only version should be used to play games from the disc or downloaded from the internet.


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## Rahnak (Jun 12, 2020)

Metroid said:


> This makes no sense, the digital version should never exist and the only version should be used to play games from the disc or downloaded from the internet.



My PS4 blu ray drive's only use was the games it came with. All of my purchases were digital. If others like me can save some money for buying it without the drive, then why not?


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## Metroid (Jun 12, 2020)

Rahnak said:


> My PS4 blu ray drive's only use was the games it came with. All of my purchases were digital. If others like me can save some money for buying it without the drive, then why not?



Is the drive so expensive? Probably sony charges a lot for the drive.


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## Darmok N Jalad (Jun 12, 2020)

Even with discs, once you pop the game in, you get GBs worth of updates to download. Anything multiplayer requires all those updates in order to play online. My original copy of Destiny is literally just a physical placeholder instead of a digital one. I’m not even sure you can play the version with Peter Dinklage‘s phoned-in ghost voiceover.


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## Rahnak (Jun 12, 2020)

Metroid said:


> Is the drive so expensive? Probably sony charges a lot for the drive.


We'll find out once Sony reveals pricing. I tried googling prices but most drives do writes as well. I did find what looked like an external 4k blu ray player that was just shy of $50. If I were to guess, maybe a $30 difference between versions?


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## Metroid (Jun 12, 2020)

Rahnak said:


> We'll find out once Sony reveals pricing. I tried googling prices but most drives do writes as well. I did find what looked like an external 4k blu ray player that was just shy of $50. If I were to guess, maybe a $30 difference between versions?



To me, for them to make a different version, must have been $100 plus difference. $30 or $50 don't think they would have bothered about. Let's wait and see, good question.


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## Lionheart (Jun 12, 2020)

I like the design, the event was boring asf though, only thing I enjoyed was Resident Evil 8 Village.


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## iO (Jun 12, 2020)

Rahnak said:


> My PS4 blu ray drive's only use was the games it came with. All of my purchases were digital. If others like me can save some money for buying it without the drive, then why not?



Might save you a few bucks initially. But losing the ability to sell games and game for cheap with second hand games really isn't worth it IMO.


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## Kissamies (Jun 12, 2020)

Now that's ugly. PS2, PS3 & PS4 original designs looked great.

edit: And no RGB?!


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## Rahnak (Jun 12, 2020)

iO said:


> Might save you a few bucks initially. But losing the ability to sell games and game for cheap with second hand games really isn't worth it IMO.


I haven't done that since the PS3 days, but it's a very good point. For sure, it's not for everyone, I'm probably their ideal target for the digital version.


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## Kissamies (Jun 12, 2020)

Rahnak said:


> I haven't done that since the PS3 days, but it's a very good point. For sure, it's not for everyone, I'm probably their ideal target for the digital version.


Personally I don't even remember when I've bought a console game as new. Skate 3 on X360 probably. These days I just buy old console games from ebay and everything digitally for PC.


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## Hotobu (Jun 12, 2020)

This is all I could think about when I saw the PS5 just now.






A Red/Black mod with green eyes would be both great and hilarious.


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## Tomgang (Jun 12, 2020)

Yeah I don't know what to say. With out the disk it looks... Well not overly bad, but not perfect either. 

The disk version . Good god, that looks like PS5 just got tumor or something.

I prefer design on the older consoles to be hornestly.


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## Kissamies (Jun 12, 2020)

IMO it just needs a black version. This black & white design looks stupid.


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## sepheronx (Jun 12, 2020)

I like physical media.  I am not a fan of how video games are going tbh.  Maybe it is just me but with the events happening around the world now and of hearing how things are pulled from digital streaming systems and what not because of some disagreements on historical point of view or whatever, proves that having physical is important.  Plus what ever happened to simply throwing in a cartridge or disk and play the game?  Are people that lazy now?  I also love the idea of collecting.  Having a collection you can display so one day you are bored and want to do something, you simply go to your library of games, look and choose.  I used to do it all the time and was just....fun (if that makes sense).

The system looks OK.  I don't care too much for it of course but I never found the PS4 that appealing either.  More appealing than this though.  But oh well.  The games don't much appeal to me either besides as someone else here said - Resident Evil 8 and the Square Enix title.  We will see.


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## Hyderz (Jun 12, 2020)

the rendering gave it a cheap flexible plastic feel to it.
maybe when we see the product in hand, might be different


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## Pumper (Jun 12, 2020)

Terrible design and the console is giant compared to the rest:


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## 1d10t (Jun 12, 2020)

White and blue LED, I think of Atlas from Portal 2...






I think XSX won this round, from hardware and certainly form factor. Yeah I said it, it was UGLY.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 12, 2020)

Fouquin said:


> Oh I like the digital edition, it's aesthetically appealing. But the way they just bulged out the chassis and created this plastic tumor to house the optical drive... It's just gross.


Function over fashion....


Rahnak said:


> My PS4 blu ray drive's only use was the games it came with. All of my purchases were digital.


And when the PSN shuts down, all of your games will be gone. Those with physical discs will still be able to play their games...


Darmok N Jalad said:


> Even with discs, once you pop the game in, you get GBs worth of updates to download.


...even without updates.


Darmok N Jalad said:


> My original copy of Destiny is literally just a physical placeholder instead of a digital one.


I haven't seen this yet. However, my PS4 Library isn't that extensive.


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## ShurikN (Jun 12, 2020)

1d10t said:


> I think XSX won this round, from hardware and certainly form factor. Yeah I said it, it was UGLY.


But they lost brutally in the only department that matters. Games. 5 seconds of Ratchet and Clank had more gameplay than the entire XBox "gameplay" presentation.


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## Valantar (Jun 12, 2020)

sepheronx said:


> I like physical media.  I am not a fan of how video games are going tbh.  Maybe it is just me but with the events happening around the world now and of hearing how things are pulled from digital streaming systems and what not because of some disagreements on historical point of view or whatever, proves that having physical is important.  Plus what ever happened to simply throwing in a cartridge or disk and play the game?  Are people that lazy now?  I also love the idea of collecting.  Having a collection you can display so one day you are bored and want to do something, you simply go to your library of games, look and choose.  I used to do it all the time and was just....fun (if that makes sense).


I don't disagree with you, and I definitely wouldn't buy an all-digital version, but physical game sales have been down the toilet for half a decade or more (hi, former game retail worker here). Also, "throwing in a cartridge or disk and play[ing] the game" hasn't been a reality since the X360/PS3 generation - optical drives don't have the bandwidth required to load anything even remotely modern directly off hte disk. At the very least it needs installing to a drive, but it also likely needs a ton of updates given how broken a lot of games are at launch.



ARF said:


> To me the design looks like inspired by a perfect female figure - 90/60/90... Very weird - I bet women will like it more than men...


That post is such a cluster****, I'm impressed that it's just two sentences long. Pretty please keep your sexist drivel to yourself? It would be much appreciated.



As for this console design .... eugh. I get what they are going for, but when what they are going for is "15-year-old's idea of a cool sci-fi-looking gadget", that doesn't add up to me. Most gamers are adults. The _vast_ majority of game hardware buyers are adults. This obnoxious monstrosity would never reach my living room, no way, and I would imagine most people above the age of 15 would say the same. I will be getting both new consoles down the line (need them for work if nothing else), but they'll be living in my office. The XSX will likely be brought out to game on the TV regularly, but this thing? It will stay safely tucked away where I don't have to look at it more than I absolutely have to.


Edit: I believe I found the origin of this design (courtesy of Eurogamer commentators). The colour scheme might be reversed, but there sure is a strong family resemblance.


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## wurschti (Jun 12, 2020)

Looks like someone was very inspired from Lucy when making the trailer. 100% brain time.
Not a fan of the design tho, Now the new Xbox looks much better.


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## sepheronx (Jun 12, 2020)

Valantar said:


> I don't disagree with you, and I definitely wouldn't buy an all-digital version, but physical game sales have been down the toilet for half a decade or more (hi, former game retail worker here). Also, "throwing in a cartridge or disk and play[ing] the game" hasn't been a reality since the X360/PS3 generation - optical drives don't have the bandwidth required to load anything even remotely modern directly off hte disk. At the very least it needs installing to a drive, but it also likely needs a ton of updates given how broken a lot of games are at launch.



No, I agree to an extent.  But what I am saying is that I am OK if the physical information is installed on the local disk but the cartridge is used for certain things and the protection as well.  Heck, cartridges could be way faster than disk now and while still kind of pricey, not as bad as it used to be.

But yeah, the amount needed to download to fix a game at launch is ridiculous.  That though boils down to poor development and developers.


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## Valantar (Jun 12, 2020)

sepheronx said:


> No, I agree to an extent.  But what I am saying is that I am OK if the physical information is installed on the local disk but the cartridge is used for certain things and the protection as well.  Heck, cartridges could be way faster than disk now and while still kind of pricey, not as bad as it used to be.
> 
> But yeah, the amount needed to download to fix a game at launch is ridiculous.  That though boils down to poor development and developers.


It's more on publishers frankly, they're the ones demanding strict deadlines and forcing developers (most of which are in extremely precarious economic situations unlike a lot of publishers) to release things that ideally would get half a year or a full year more development to fix bugs and polish everything.

Cartridges could indeed be good, but that would be _really_ expensive - let's say they go with a base x2 NVMe controller, and use HMB to make it DRAMless, that's still a significant cost compared to a $60 sales price even for 64GB of flash, let alone the 128GB or more that many games would need. Remember, they couldn't use the bargain-basement flash found in USB drives and low-end SD cards, it simply isn't fast enough.



Pumper said:


> Terrible design and the console is giant compared to the rest:


Who made that comparison? It's pretty well done, and important - without context, I never would have imagined it to be that damn huge.


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## Xex360 (Jun 12, 2020)

I like the design if in a more classy dark, till now only the 360 was beautiful in white (excluding special editions).


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 12, 2020)

Valantar said:


> Also, "throwing in a cartridge or disk and play[ing] the game" hasn't been a reality since the X360/PS3 generation - optical drives don't have the bandwidth required to load anything even remotely modern directly off hte disk.


I still do it, on consoles anyway.. Prefer it that way. But then again, I'm an odd duck.


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## Valantar (Jun 12, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> I still do it, on consoles anyway.. Prefer it that way. But then again, I'm an odd duck.


I also _use_ disks, and would say I prefer them even if most of my purchases these days are digital due to convenience. The artifact itself has value. But you haven't been able to buy a game disk, insert the disk, and play the game without some sort of installation for more than a decade (and these days likely a 20+GB download). That is all I said.


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## Chomiq (Jun 12, 2020)

I don't mind the design. MS should take major lessons from Sony's event. This is how you present your games, no bullshit, straight trailers with as much actual gameplay as possible. It got to the point when compared to the previous ms event Sony was just pounding them to the ground with great titles. Sure, there were 2 or 3 that were meh but the rest looked great. I'm not counting multiplats here, btw.
As for digi vs physical. I prefer physical copies and will grab that version once it's available. There are folks that have no preference and will buy what's cheapest, which will be digital. Once again, it's a matter of choice. I doubt that digital will sell well in Japan though, since they love their physical copies so much.


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## shk021051 (Jun 12, 2020)

looks like router to me i perfer series x design


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## Rahnak (Jun 12, 2020)

Chloe Price said:


> Personally I don't even remember when I've bought a console game as new. Skate 3 on X360 probably. These days I just buy old console games from ebay and everything digitally for PC.


I never bought a used console but I did sell my PS3/games though.



lexluthermiester said:


> And when the PSN shuts down, all of your games will be gone. Those with physical discs will still be able to play their games...


It would take something catastrophic for PSN to shut down. And even if it did, you'd probably be able to download the games beforehand. All of my PS4 games are installed on the disk, so I'm all set there.
My approach to console gaming is a little different however. I don't expect to keep the games forever. I gave my PS2 away with all of the games. I sold my PS3 and most of the games. And I'll probably end up giving away my PS4 as well.
And PC works pretty much the same way, the majority is digital these days and if a digital store goes puff it _might _just take your games with it.


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## Kissamies (Jun 12, 2020)

Rahnak said:


> I never bought a used console but I did sell my PS3/games though.


My last console I've got as new was my first PS2 in 2002  (this one I have now is my fourth PS2)


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## sepheronx (Jun 12, 2020)

Valantar said:


> It's more on publishers frankly, they're the ones demanding strict deadlines and forcing developers (most of which are in extremely precarious economic situations unlike a lot of publishers) to release things that ideally would get half a year or a full year more development to fix bugs and polish everything.
> 
> Cartridges could indeed be good, but that would be _really_ expensive - let's say they go with a base x2 NVMe controller, and use HMB to make it DRAMless, that's still a significant cost compared to a $60 sales price even for 64GB of flash, let alone the 128GB or more that many games would need. Remember, they couldn't use the bargain-basement flash found in USB drives and low-end SD cards, it simply isn't fast enough.



That's true about first part.

Second part, was similar back in NES days I remember where cartridge was way too expensive.  But they found a way to reduce overall costs.  They can do it again.  Hence the concept of mass production.  They just went with CD cause it fit more at the time while being cheaper.  They could find a way but they wont cause its expensive for them to do so.  Its all about minimal costs.  Like lack of originality in components for most part as all use same x86 processor and even GPU just clocked differently and or more CU's (well, playstation has some kind of proprietary function on their AMD cpu but not entirely sure what it is as I didn't read too far into it).

Im like Luther, I am an old duck too and just prefer the old days of consoles vs now.  But that is just my opinion.


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## Valantar (Jun 12, 2020)

sepheronx said:


> That's true about first part.
> 
> Second part, was similar back in NES days I remember where cartridge was way too expensive.  But they found a way to reduce overall costs.  They can do it again.  Hence the concept of mass production.  They just went with CD cause it fit more at the time while being cheaper.  They could find a way but they wont cause its expensive for them to do so.  Its all about minimal costs.  Like lack of originality in components for most part as all use same x86 processor and even GPU just clocked differently and or more CU's (well, playstation has some kind of proprietary function on their AMD cpu but not entirely sure what it is as I didn't read too far into it).
> 
> Im like Luther, I am an old duck too and just prefer the old days of consoles vs now.  But that is just my opinion.


There is a lot of wishful thinking in that statement. First off, "they found a way to reduce costs. They could do it again" - did they, though? Carts were always expensive, and disks have always been much cheaper. From what I remember, the biggest cost savings came from using less storage in the carts, which of course constrained development massively (especially for the N64 which was competing with the disk-based PS1). You will always be able to stamp a thin metal film and squeeze it between a few layers of plastic more cheaply than you are able to assemble a non-volatile silicon-based storage medium. That's just reality. I mean, I would love if someone came up with an affordable non-volatile storage medium that performed on par with flash, but... the storage industry spends _billions_ in R&D on that every year (not to mention universities around the world), but flash is the best we've got, and any replacement is likely to be based on some exotic tech and thus very expensive at least to begin with (such as 3D Xpoint). Flash has a cost. A controller has a cost. A PCB has a cost. A casing has a cost. You can't just wish those away, and volume pricing only gets you so far.

As for it all being about minimal costs: have you seen how many game developers go bankrupt every year? How they struggle between projects? How beholden they are to publishers and platform holders? For developers, it's about survival, about still having a job. For publishers, it's (a lot) about profits - but even their margins wouldn't survive a $20 cost hike for physical games without also increasing game prices. And a $20 base cost for a high performance flash-based game cartridge of sufficient capacity is realistic.

And as for "lack of originality in components"? Are there any alternatives you know of? The computing industry has matured and consolidated massively in the past two decades. In the early 2000s a start-up could show up with some new tech and deliver revolutionary features or performance from seemingly nothing. That is not even remotely possible today, simply because things have developed far beyond that point. I guess they could have gone for an ARM-based CPU, but that would mean no backwards compatibility, and besides, ARM scales worse than X86 at high power. For GPUs, you have a handful of vendors making very similar designs with very similar featuresets - a necessity to support the standards put in place to allow for development. And only two vendors make high performance GPUs, and only one of them has a CPU product and is open for semi-custom work. 

These aren't the Xbox/PS2 days when a new console could realistically bring with it new and revolutionary features, simply because coming up with new and revolutionary features is increasingly difficult as time goes by. Most vendors deliver the same featuresets, though mobile GPU vendors are a generation or two behind. Nvidia did something like this with RTX, but now AMD seems to have caught up within a single generation - and it's standardized too, through DXR. And while standards do bring conformity, they also bring ease of development, ultimately delivering better games as developers can spend more time making games and less time learning how to use new and weird tools. The PS2 and PS3 were both excellent illustrations of how promising hardware can be undermined by it being difficult to program for (well, the PS3 had a sub-par GPU, but it's CPU was supposed to be revolutionary, but mostly turned out to be terrible to write games for).

This is how technological development will always go. There is a finite amount of possible hardware configurations that will do what is needed, and a finite amount of possible new techniques to achieve this. The majority will be developed early, and as time goes on, development of new tech/features will slow, simply because the list of new possible solutions is both shorter and the things on that list are much more complex. There might come paradigm shift-shift-like developments that kick off a new wave of innovation (replacing silicon in transistors, for example), but we really haven't seen anything like that in computing since its inception. So expecting equally dramatic developments in a mature field of technology (current PCs and consoles) as in an immature one (say, NES and SNES era consoles) is naive and out of touch with reality. It simply isn't going to happen.


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## R0H1T (Jun 12, 2020)

A true (i.e. *cheap*) alternative to flash isn't coming anytime soon, what you can get now is something like this ~
Sony Deploys Generation 3 *PetaSite* Optical Disc Archive Technology


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## cueman (Jun 12, 2020)

console 600$!
joystick150-200$!
games 75-100$

forget kids consoles and come PC world, where you are master andyou deside when you play games.
single game mode agenda!


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## Cryogenta (Jun 12, 2020)

Looks like my air purifier


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## sepheronx (Jun 12, 2020)

No doubt the cost for the cartridges would have been a lot to compete in storage space of the disk.  But initially, cost was huge for third party developers simply because of nintendo's horrendous prices on licensing.

As for component base, well its obvious why they went with x86.  Its just that now really, the difference is near non existent between the two besides of course exclusives.  To which I say that with Xbox its even less of a need to buy cause most of if not all their games will be on PC anyway.

What I was really hoping for was some kind of Silent Hill game since Sony purchased it from Konami.  Oh well.


----------



## rvalencia (Jun 12, 2020)

sepheronx said:


> That's true about first part.
> 
> Second part, was similar back in NES days I remember where cartridge was way too expensive.  But they found a way to reduce overall costs.  They can do it again.  Hence the concept of mass production.  They just went with CD cause it fit more at the time while being cheaper.  They could find a way but they wont cause its expensive for them to do so.  Its all about minimal costs.  Like lack of originality in components for most part as all use same x86 processor and even GPU just clocked differently and or more CU's (well, playstation has some kind of proprietary function on their AMD cpu but not entirely sure what it is as I didn't read too far into it).
> 
> Im like Luther, I am an old duck too and just prefer the old days of consoles vs now.  But that is just my opinion.


Both RTX Turing/Ampere and RDNA 2 include hardware-accelerated raytracing cores for real-time raytracing which are semi-conductor industry's leading-edge designs. A large amount of TFLOPS from RT cores that can be used beyond graphics related raytracing such as audio and physics.

CELL's SPU software raytracing design approach is no match  against designs from NVIDIA's RTX and AMD's RDNA 2 RT cores.

For PS5's DSP, AMD easily designed SPU like solution from its existing CU IP which is CU design without graphics hardware.

AMD and NVIDIA are specialized companies for math array technology companies that produce leading-edge GPUs for most price segments.

Intel is evolving into the world's number 3 GPU design house after NVIDIA and AMD.

My point, if there's something unique concept, PC world will assimilate it.


----------



## ARF (Jun 12, 2020)

rvalencia said:


> Both RTX Turing/Ampere and RDNA 2 include hardware-accelerated raytracing cores for real-time raytracing which are semi-conductor industry's leading-edge designs. A large amount of TFLOPS from RT cores that can be used beyond graphics related raytracing such as audio and physics.
> 
> CELL's SPU software raytracing design approach is no much against designs from NVIDIA's RTX and AMD's RDNA 2 RT cores.
> 
> ...




Given how poor the sound cards implementation is on the vast majority of mainboards, and users' poor headphones, especially those for gaming, it's kind of bizarre why the Audio is a target for development.

Yes, it should be, but the user base first must move to quality components and then the Audio quality should be considered.


----------



## Valantar (Jun 12, 2020)

rvalencia said:


> Both RTX Turing/Ampere and RDNA 2 include hardware-accelerated raytracing cores for real-time raytracing which are semi-conductor industry's leading-edge designs. A large amount of TFLOPS from RT cores that can be used beyond graphics related raytracing such as audio and physics.
> 
> CELL's SPU software raytracing design approach is no much against designs from NVIDIA's RTX and AMD's RDNA 2 RT cores.
> 
> ...


Agree with most of that, except for the last part: what about ARM, Imagination, Qualcomm, Apple? Sure, the third for desktop PC GPUs, but there are plenty of GPU makers out there. It's probably the most contested field in high performance computing still.



ARF said:


> Given how poor the sound cards implementation is on the vast majority of mainboards, and users' poor headphones, especially those for gaming, it's kind of bizarre why the Audio is a target for development.
> 
> Yes, it should be, but the user base first must move to quality components and then the Audio quality should be considered.


There's a lot that can still be done even if output quality is poor - directionality/spatiality, adapting audio better to headphones, more dynamic audio (where RT comes in; reflections and other interactions with geometry), etc. If the processing power is there this can all be done even on a potato sound output device with Koss Porta Pros. Will it be good? Of course not. Will it be better than what the same people have today? Obviously. And more importantly, these qualities can have much more of an effect on game immersion and world building than pure audio quality - even if that obviously also matters a lot.


----------



## rvalencia (Jun 12, 2020)

Valantar said:


> Agree with most of that, except for the last part: what about ARM, Imagination, Qualcomm, Apple? Sure, the third for desktop PC GPUs, but there are plenty of GPU makers out there. It's probably the most contested field in high performance computing still.


At desktop PC power level,  ARM Mali, Imagination PowerVR and Qualcomm Adreno GPUs are inferior to Intel, AMD, NVIDIA.

Qualcomm Adreno GPU design is licensed from AMD in the 1st placed. LOL. Read https://www.electronicdesign.com/news/article/21754742/qualcomm-licenses-amd-graphics-core-ip

Adreno 6xx IGP has DirectX12 Feature 12_1 while AMD's RDNA 2 and NVIDIA's RTX have DirectX12 Feature 12_2 aka DirectX12 Ultimate.

ARM Mali GPU is a joke i.e. note why Samsung has licensed  AMD's RDNA for mobile phones.









						Samsung Galaxy Phone With AMD Radeon GPU Coming Next Year
					

Samsung and AMD announced a partnership last year that was unsurprisingly filled with generic "forward-looking" statements and nothing to show for. It was pretty much…




					www.slashgear.com
				



_A GFXBench listing for the AMD RDNA architecture that will be used on future Samsung Exynos chips surpasses the current Qualcomm Adreno 650 in many of the synthetic benchmark tests. This Adreno GPU is the one used in the Snapdragon 865 which is already ahead of the race (except against Apple’s A13). _

Apple's SoC and GPUs are pointless for 3rd party OEM/ODM vendors

Apple's hardware-accelerated raytracing.... LOL

For pure graphics power for Sony's usage,  ARM Mali, Imagination PowerVR, Qualcomm Adreno and Apple A13 IGP solution are inferior AMD's RDNA 2 solution for PS5.

None of ARM Mali, Imagination PowerVR, Qualcomm Adreno 6xx and Apple A13 IGP solution will beat the power of PS4 let alone PS5.



ARF said:


> Given how poor the sound cards implementation is on the vast majority of mainboards, and users' poor headphones, especially those for gaming, it's kind of bizarre why the Audio is a target for development.
> 
> Yes, it should be, but the user base first must move to quality components and then the Audio quality should be considered.


For Windows 10 PC platform, DirectX12 Ultimate is important for real-time audio raytracing along with graphics raytracing.


----------



## theonek (Jun 12, 2020)

this design is much better than the original leaked one, which looked like an ugly space ship. This design is more clearer and minimalistic....


----------



## Parn (Jun 12, 2020)

Pumper said:


> Terrible design and the console is giant compared to the rest:



Based on this trend, the console would soon be the same size as a mid-tower PC. Well they are literally x86 PC with a fancy case and specialised OS anyway, so not surprised.


----------



## theonek (Jun 12, 2020)

Parn said:


> Based on this trend, the console would soon be the same size as a mid-tower PC. Well they are literally x86 PC with a fancy case and specialised OS anyway, so not surprised.


well, you can't put powerful hardware ot tight spaces without overheat issues, it has to have a little space and a proper cooling, which demands bigger casing, so don't wonder why consoles are growing bigger...


----------



## Vayra86 (Jun 12, 2020)

Holy shit. Xbox eat your heart out... this is design, right here. Miles better than the previous version, too.

Damn that looks good... I see not everyone agrees  But I like it... understated LED that you're not looking straight into, and the philosophy extends to the controller too. That wasn't the case before. It also looks straight up futuristic, could be a movie prop. Seems like a similar design approach to what Samsung does with its latest ultrawides. White with accent, curvy, smooth 'synthetic plating' look.

Also, blue led so it surely runs cooler than competition 

Bonus points for not looking like a bin, as well.


----------



## R0H1T (Jun 12, 2020)

You're complementing the PS or trashing XSX


----------



## Vayra86 (Jun 12, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> You're complementing the PS or trashing XSX



XSX was already a trash can, so its not hard  To each his own though. But I'm a smoker, I might mistake the XSX for my ashtray, not good.

Note I'm just commenting on the design of both, not specs or actual performance. I reckon the XSX might have its heat management in order just a tad better from the way its built.


----------



## R0H1T (Jun 12, 2020)

Well tbf it's only one angle, haven't seen a complete rundown of both the latest gens so can't say whether I won't mistake the XSX for a bin either.


----------



## Vayra86 (Jun 12, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> Well tbf it's only one angle, haven't seen a complete rundown of both the latest gens so can't say whether I won't mistake the XSX for a bin either.



Here you go, 2 seconds on DDG

I'd seriously be able to drop cig butt in there in some half drunk mood


----------



## Valantar (Jun 12, 2020)

rvalencia said:


> At desktop PC power level,  ARM Mali, Imagination PowerVR and Qualcomm Adreno GPUs are inferior to Intel, AMD, NVIDIA.
> 
> Qualcomm Adreno GPU design is licensed from AMD in the 1st placed. LOL. Read https://www.electronicdesign.com/news/article/21754742/qualcomm-licenses-amd-graphics-core-ip
> 
> ...


None of that relates to what I said, nor to your initial statement - they are still "GPU design houses" by any reasonable definition of that term.

Also, nice "hey, you don't know anything" flex with "LOL Adreno is even based on an AMD design" stuff - not only is that common knowledge to anyone interested in GPUs, but it has no bearing on my point. AMD sold the Adreno design to Qualcomm in 2009 after all, and I'm willing to bet quite a lot that there has been significant design work done for those GPUs since then. So even if the basis was AMD (well, actually Imageon, bought by ATI, which was then bought by AMD), Qualcomm is nonetheless a GPU design house.



Vayra86 said:


> Holy shit. Xbox eat your heart out... this is design, right here. Miles better than the previous version, too.
> 
> Damn that looks good... I see not everyone agrees  But I like it... understated LED that you're not looking straight into, and the philosophy extends to the controller too. That wasn't the case before. It also looks straight up futuristic, could be a movie prop. Seems like a similar design approach to what Samsung does with its latest ultrawides. White with accent, curvy, smooth 'synthetic plating' look.
> 
> ...


"Looking like a movie prop", especially when said movie is likely to be a low-budget B-rate pulp sci-fi job, is not that great a compliment. Most people don't want tacky "hey look ma, I drew a spaceship" designs in their living rooms. This looks cheap, tacky, and woefully poorly thought through. Combined with the (massive!) size (see previous post in this thread), this is going to be a problem for a lot of people.


----------



## Vayra86 (Jun 12, 2020)

Valantar said:


> "Looking like a movie prop", especially when said movie is likely to be a low-budget B-rate pulp sci-fi job, is not that great a compliment. Most people don't want tacky "hey look ma, I drew a spaceship" designs in their living rooms. This looks cheap, tacky, and woefully poorly thought through. Combined with the (massive!) size (see previous post in this thread), this is going to be a problem for a lot of people.



Here's the sort of design in my mind when I saw that PS  Wink wink

Do agree though, XSX is much easier to fit in any living room and not look like that sore thumb.
But for teenage bedroom with fancy lights? This fits right in. Yep you got me... I like those fancy lights too, to some degree


----------



## R0H1T (Jun 12, 2020)

Valantar said:


> I drew a spaceship" designs in their living rooms.


Hey speak for yourself, I literally drew spaceships for a couple of years in middle(?) school using the shuttle images on our notebooks (the writing variety) & all up to scale with *precision instruments* of the time 

Space was & still is a topic close to heart, ever so often I kill time on *YT* with *PBS spacetime* videos.


----------



## Spencer LeBlanc (Jun 12, 2020)

Not a fan of the design. I can't tell but it looks like cheap plastic.
Hopefully it will not be plastic housing...


----------



## Valantar (Jun 12, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> Hey speak about yourself, I literally drew spaceships for fun for a couple of years in middle(?) school using the shuttle images on our notebooks (the writing variety) & all up to scale with *precision instruments* of the time
> 
> Space was & still is a topic close to heart, ever so often I kill time on *YT* with *PBS spacetime* videos.


Yes, but as an adult, have you built models based on those drawings and featured them prominently in your living room? I didn't think so 



Vayra86 said:


> Here's the sort of design in my mind when I saw that PS  Wink wink
> 
> Do agree though, XSX is much easier to fit in any living room and not look like that sore thumb.
> But for teenage bedroom with fancy lights? This fits right in. Yep you got me... I like those fancy lights too, to some degree
> ...


I guess if you meld that with this, you do indeed have something looking like the PS5 

I can absolutely enjoy some over the top designs, but this just goes way beyond that and plants both feet + its ass directly in a heaping pile of "tacky". The design style is squarely mid-2000s, the shiny white plastic will look poor in real life compared to renders, the flowy shape will stand out next to anything and thus just emphasize the size of this thing, and the blue LED just screams "hey, I'm 13 years old!" There are many possible points on the axis between "bland and boring" and "over-the-top tacky", yet this seems to have aimed squarely for the latter pole. I don't think the XSX is the best design ever either, but at least it has some subtlety to it.



Spencer LeBlanc said:


> Not a fan of the design. I can't tell but it looks like cheap plastic.
> Hopefully it will not be plastic housing...


All consoles have plastic housings. Anything else is far too expensive. Plastic shell, steel inner cage to ensure rigidity and RF compliance.


----------



## R0H1T (Jun 12, 2020)

Valantar said:


> Yes, but as an adult, have you built models based on those drawings and featured them prominently in your living room? I didn't think so


Yeah unfortunately I haven't set the room up, though generally speaking I prefer clean & spacious environments. Nearly everything that isn't used daily is crammed in an attic or any other storage space. I definitely am not pro flashy items anywhere I have control over, personal space is a bit different. Just to clarify ~ I don't find the PS5 flashy, at least from the image I see here.


----------



## Hyderz (Jun 12, 2020)

plash speed


----------



## Rahnak (Jun 12, 2020)

Some fanart.




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/h7fauh


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## rvalencia (Jun 12, 2020)

Parn said:


> Based on this trend, the console would soon be the same size as a mid-tower PC. Well they are literally x86 PC with a fancy case and specialised OS anyway, so not surprised.


Both MS and Sony wanted desktop graphics power,


Valantar said:


> None of that relates to what I said, nor to your initial statement - they are still "GPU design houses" by any reasonable definition of that term.
> 
> Also, nice "hey, you don't know anything" flex with "LOL Adreno is even based on an AMD design" stuff - not only is that common knowledge to anyone interested in GPUs, but it has no bearing on my point. AMD sold the Adreno design to Qualcomm in 2009 after all, and I'm willing to bet quite a lot that there has been significant design work done for those GPUs since then. So even if the basis was AMD (well, actually Imageon, bought by ATI, which was then bought by AMD), Qualcomm is nonetheless a GPU design house.
> 
> ...


This topic is about Sony's PS5 and your argument with handset GPU vendors is useless since they are inferior when compared to PS5's GPU.


----------



## Valantar (Jun 12, 2020)

rvalencia said:


> This topic is about Sony's PS5 and your argument with handset GPU vendors is useless since they are inferior when compared to PS5's GPU.


I never said they were comparable in terms of performance, I just said that your statement that


rvalencia said:


> Intel is evolving into the world's number 3 GPU design house after NVIDIA and AMD.


is wrong by any reasonable understanding of the term "GPU design house". Also, as to this topic being about the PS5, might I remind you who brought Nvidia and Intel into this in the first place?


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jun 12, 2020)

PS5 reveal met with conspiracy theory that presenters were CGI
					

Something is not quite right here...




					www.polygon.com


----------



## Valantar (Jun 12, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> PS5 reveal met with conspiracy theory that presenters were CGI
> 
> 
> Something is not quite right here...
> ...


Lolwut?


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jun 12, 2020)

Valantar said:


> Lolwut?


Indeed. Makes you wonder about people...


----------



## Rahnak (Jun 12, 2020)

Graphics so real even the presenters look rendered. /s


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## Totally (Jun 12, 2020)

Rahnak said:


> Some fanart.
> View attachment 158730
> 
> 
> ...



looks so much better blk on blk, instead of the two-tone travesty they are going with. White on white probably wouldn't look bad either.


----------



## 1d10t (Jun 13, 2020)

ShurikN said:


> But they lost brutally in the only department that matters. Games. 5 seconds of Ratchet and Clank had more gameplay than the entire XBox "gameplay" presentation.



Sole reason I'm sticking 25+ years with Sony. I'm a big fan of JRPG, they had abundant and to my knowledge Japanese developer didn't bother developed game for a "foreign" platform. I will switch to PS5, but not these stain collecting white and router-esque design, I'll wait for revision / slimmer version


----------



## s3thra (Jun 13, 2020)

Chloe Price said:


> Personally I don't even remember when I've bought a console game as new. Skate 3 on X360 probably. These days I just buy old console games from ebay and everything digitally for PC.


Pretty much this for me since the PS3 days too. I've invested relatively little money in, yet accumulated quite a lot of PS3 and PS4 games over the years by buying them at least 12 months after they release. Sometimes second hand, sometimes just reduced because they aren't a new release. The bonus is by then all the bugs are well and truly ironed out. Mind you I only play single player games though.


----------



## Turmania (Jun 13, 2020)

If they do it all Black would fit and blend perfectly, but white does not go with my living room arrangement, they probably will do black version as well. but nevertheless, i bet they will sell at least 150M units this time.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 13, 2020)

Rahnak said:


> Some fanart.
> View attachment 158730
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, that works better!


----------



## HossHuge (Jun 13, 2020)

I already have a PS5.


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## theFOoL (Jun 13, 2020)

Just searched "PS5 Look" and First *LINK  

“*It looks like a stormtrooper made love to an art deco lamp. I actually don’t hate it.*”* – *Brian Westover, Editor

“*I think it’s bizarre and kind of ugly.*”* – *Mike Andronico, Editor-in-Chief*​


----------



## KnightStorm (Jun 13, 2020)

I'll go against the grain here and say I like it. But then I'm a scifi fan also.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 13, 2020)

HossHuge said:


> I already have a PS5. View attachment 158854


Sheer awesome!!


----------



## Xzibit (Jun 14, 2020)

HossHuge said:


> I already have a PS5. View attachment 158854



Is that the 5 small ring version or the 3 big ring version


----------



## rvalencia (Jun 14, 2020)

Valantar said:


> I never said they were comparable in terms of performance, I just said that your statement that
> 
> is wrong by any reasonable understanding of the term "GPU design house". Also, as to this topic being about the PS5, might I remind you who brought Nvidia and Intel into this in the first place?


Your argument is invalid since handset GPU vendors' products are inferior to PS5 GPU solution. My  "GPU design house" debate was backed by Sony's selection for AMD with performance and value for the money.

The context for my argument starts from https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...ive-next-generation-games.268381/post-4287792  The argument is about "What IF" performance from other vendors besides AMD. Name a credible alternative to AMD, Intel, and Nvidia for PS5 performance target. IBM has expensive Power 9 CPUs LOL.


----------



## Valantar (Jun 14, 2020)

rvalencia said:


> Your argument is invalid since handset GPU vendors' products are inferior to PS5 GPU solution. My  "GPU design house" debate was backed by Sony's selection for AMD with performance and value for the money.
> 
> The context for my argument starts from https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...ive-next-generation-games.268381/post-4287792  The argument is about "What IF" performance from other vendors besides AMD. Name a credible alternative to AMD, Intel, and Nvidia for PS5 performance target. IBM has expensive Power 9 CPUs LOL.


Well, there's nothing indicating the Intel will be a viable alternative any time soon either. And given that nobody has tried scaling the other designs up past a few cores and a few watts, we simply don't know. I don't think they're particularly good, but there's nothing saying they're worse than Intel.

As for context, that is the post where you made that "GPU design house" statement. It's the exact post I first quoted. Before that we were discussing GPU features and innovation. If that is your benchmark, that definitely disqualifies Intel - thinking they'll be in a position to innovate on features any time soon is wishful thinking. But again, that is an unreasonable benchmark for as broad a term as "GPU design house". If you said "PC GPU maker" I'd be in agreement with you, but there are many companies designing GPUs out there.


----------



## hat (Jun 14, 2020)

Well, I don't see much wrong with doing away with physical media, at least in part. Take my modded PS2 for example. In that time, almost every console game was entirely loaded from the optical disc. However, with FMCB and a hard drive, I can pop my disc in the drive, install the game, and put the disc away forever. What I'm left with is a game that's still quite playable, even more so than it was intended to be, because a hard drive will outperform an optical disc all day every day. 

Also, do not forget that optical media does not last forever. Your discs can just die, regardless of how well you took care of them. It's a big problem for old PS1 games. What if my FF7 discs die? Now I have to find a second/third/fourth hand etc replacement that's just as old and vulnerable to sudden death as my first one. And the disc drive in the console can die, too. At least if my hard drive in my PS2 dies... even if all my discs also die on the same day, I can always find the ISOs online and get everything back. 

Of course, Steam, PSN, etc can go poof one day... but it's unlikely to happen, at least overnight. And if it does, I would hope the powers that be would leave behind a way for us to play our games. Hell, even EA was removing the requirement for your disc to be in the drive with their final patches for earlier Battlefield games (1942, Vietnam, 2 and 2142 at least, that I know of). And if the service in question DOES totally tank, you can always find it again "another way" and you would be well within your rights to do so. 

That was a little long winded, but the point is: just as something like PSN can die, so can a physical disc. And in the case of retro games, finding a good replacement can be a challenge. At least nothing ever truly dies on the internet.


----------



## rvalencia (Jun 14, 2020)

Valantar said:


> Well, there's nothing indicating the Intel will be a viable alternative any time soon either. And given that nobody has tried scaling the other designs up past a few cores and a few watts, we simply don't know. I don't think they're particularly good, but there's nothing saying they're worse than Intel.
> 
> As for context, that is the post where you made that "GPU design house" statement. It's the exact post I first quoted. Before that we were discussing GPU features and innovation. If that is your benchmark, that definitely disqualifies Intel - thinking they'll be in a position to innovate on features any time soon is wishful thinking. But again, that is an unreasonable benchmark for as broad a term as "GPU design house". If you said "PC GPU maker" I'd be in agreement with you, but there are many companies designing GPUs out there.


My "GPU design house" statement is made with Sony's partner selection context and this topic is about Sony's PS5.









						Intel (Xe) DG1 'still' slower than Radeon RX 560 and GeForce GTX 1050 Ti - VideoCardz.com
					

Intel DG1 Intel DG1 Software Development Vehicle APISAK spotted a new entry of the Intel DG1 discrete graphics card. It should be made clear that this product is not meant for consumers, the “Software Development Vehicle” (SDV) is only, as the name suggests, for software developers. It will not...




					videocardz.com
				



Intel DG1 is slower than RX 560 and GTX 1050 Ti which exceeds PS4. Intel is slowly building it's GPU design team.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 14, 2020)

hat said:


> and put the disc away forever.


Not forever, just until it's needed again. I think people greatly under-estimate the utility of having originals & backups. 

When you buy digital only with DRM built in, there is no way for you to continue playing your games when the service shuts down. Example, Wii Shop... If I didn't have a soft-modded Wii and the know-how to make backup's playable, I'd be without the games I'd purchased when my Wii broke down. If I hadn't known how to do so, my entire digital Wii library would be gone forever. IMHO, that amounts to theft on the part of Nintendo for not making an option for people to still be able to play their purchased games.

My point is, buying titles on a DRM digital only platform is a crap business model and amounts to a form of theft from the platform owners. If you buy digital only, you play your games only at the whim of the makers, which is entirely, completely unacceptable.


----------



## hat (Jun 14, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Not forever, just until it's needed again. I think people greatly under-estimate the utility of having originals & backups.
> 
> When you buy digital only with DRM built in, there is no way for you to continue playing your games when the service shuts down. Example, Wii Shop... If I didn't have a soft-modded Wii and the know-how to make backup's playable, I'd be without the games I'd purchased when my Wii broke down. If I hadn't known how to do so, my entire digital Wii library would be gone forever. IMHO, that amounts to theft on the part of Nintendo for not making an option for people to still be able to play their purchased games.
> 
> My point is, buying titles on a DRM digital only platform is a crap business model and amounts to a form of theft from the platform owners. If you buy digital only, you play your games only at the whim of the makers, which is entirely, completely unacceptable.



Did you miss this part?



hat said:


> And if the service in question DOES totally tank, you can always find it again "another way" and you would be well within your rights to do so.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 14, 2020)

hat said:


> Did you miss this part?


No, just wanted to expand on the subject, you know to flesh it out a bit more..


----------



## hat (Jun 14, 2020)

Well, backups are certainly good, but not always possible. At least, not easily. For older console games, it's very easy to at least grab an emulator and find the ISOs. But on original hardware, for PS1 games, fort example, you're fighting the death of optical media and the drive that reads them. It's not totally unserviceable, but it is an obstacle. My point was that bad things can happen whether you have a physical copy or a digital copy. Neither one is totally safe, but there's also a way to work around obstacles that do exist in either situation. 

FWIW, I do believe having the option to use physical copies is better than not having it. I'm not for one or against the other, but rather for both together.


----------



## Valantar (Jun 15, 2020)

hat said:


> Did you miss this part?


That works very poorly on a console, given that DRM is typically implemented on a system/kernel level and hacks are ever more rare (and ever easier to patch out thanks to consoles now being always online). Emulators are practical, but a poor overall replacement for playing on actual hardware. And good luck emulating modern X86-based consoles on any hardware launched in the coming 30-40 years - that's not going to happen.

To change, this needs publishers and platform holders to actually treat their customers with some respect, which is unlikely to happen. If owners of semi-abandoned platforms started deactivating DRM protections on them and allowing users to permanently download and archive their collections of games, that would be the best solution by far - but that won't happen, sadly. They would rather piss off millions of people if even 1% of them re-buy the games on a newer platform. Capitalism at its finest.



rvalencia said:


> My "GPU design house" statement is made with Sony's partner selection context and this topic is about Sony's PS5.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Even by that metric, Apple needs to be included too - the GPU in their A12X iPad Pro SoC has raw compute power comparable to current-gen entry-level consoles (though of course raw FLOPS doesn't necessarily translate to gaming performance, but that's another matter), and all within a <10W power envelope. Intel reportedly needs ~75W to reach the same performance level. We have no idea how well Apple's design would scale up (particularly with dedicated VRAM), but it nonetheless delivers outstanding compute and graphics power for its class. As for the context of Sony's partner selection - Intel sure wasn't an option there, and likely will never be, nor is Nvidia really as they have much more lucrative markets to focus on (datacenter and HPC) rather than the relatively slim margins and major effort required for a semi-custom console project. Nvidia is present in consoles only through Nintendo adopting their already existing (and at that point already old) SoC for the Switch - but again, there weren't really any alternatives there either. And there's nothing indicating that Nvidia wants to develop a new consumer-facing SoC for a Switch follow-up - they haven't done anything like that for anyone in a long time, and all of their consumer-facing SoC development is cancelled. Even with the success of the Switch I doubt that's enough to get Nvidia to design a new SoC for Nintendo (though I'd be glad to be proven wrong here). Nvidia is by no means a flexible or accommodating company; they make what _they _think is best.


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## Turmania (Jun 15, 2020)

Heart says PlayStation, brain says Xbox,wallet says nintendo....


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## hat (Jun 15, 2020)

Valantar said:


> That works very poorly on a console, given that DRM is typically implemented on a system/kernel level and hacks are ever more rare (and ever easier to patch out thanks to consoles now being always online). Emulators are practical, but a poor overall replacement for playing on actual hardware. And good luck emulating modern X86-based consoles on any hardware launched in the coming 30-40 years - that's not going to happen.



I believe I've already pointed that out, in the post directly above yours. Admittedly, not from the angle you're coming from, but I do mention that it's not always easy to back up games on console. At least with Playstation, there's always a way. Mod chips, softmods,or jailbreaks that don't always work on current firmware, which can also be defeated by a hardware flasher or something. Of course, it's not easy, and it's definitely not as easy as it should be, but it _can_ be done...



Valantar said:


> To change, this needs publishers and platform holders to actually treat their customers with some respect, which is unlikely to happen. If owners of semi-abandoned platforms started deactivating DRM protections on them and allowing users to permanently download and archive their collections of games, that would be the best solution by far - but that won't happen, sadly. They would rather piss off millions of people if even 1% of them re-buy the games on a newer platform. Capitalism at its finest.



Huh, wait, what? Treat customers with respect? Now, there's a revolutionary idea...


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 16, 2020)

Turmania said:


> Heart says PlayStation, brain says Xbox,wallet says nintendo....


Go with your wallet. You'll enjoy yourself more.


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## Lionheart (Jun 16, 2020)

Looks awesome to me, I don't know why you ego feeding cry babies dislike it so much.


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## Shatun_Bear (Jun 16, 2020)

I like the super sleek and futuristic design, I just hope there are some exclusives at launch that wow me.


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## ARF (Jun 20, 2020)

> Ratchet & Clank is a series that prides itself on exploration of exotic worlds and bringing you to places you've never been before, and that's something that we're really striving for and that PS5 has really allowed with just increased horsepower. The number of objects in the world and the things to explore, the enemies around, the effects, everything is more, more, more.
> 
> This is what we're trying to do, build worlds that feel real and are bringing you in. You're exploring these brand new spaces. This is something that we never could have done on previous generations.
> 
> ...











						PS5 SSD Is 'Screamingly Fast' and a 'Game Changer', Says Insomniac; DualSense Controller Makes Weapons Feel More Powerful
					

Insomniac Creative Director Marcus Smith detailed how the PS5 hardware is helping with the design of Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart.




					wccftech.com


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## Spencer LeBlanc (Jun 25, 2020)

Valantar said:


> Yes, but as an adult, have you built models based on those drawings and featured them prominently in your living room? I didn't think so
> 
> 
> I guess if you meld that with this, you do indeed have something looking like the PS5
> ...


There is a difference between, plastic, and cheap plastic though.


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## Valantar (Jun 25, 2020)

Spencer LeBlanc said:


> There is a difference between, plastic, and cheap plastic though.


Yes, but any plastic outside of exotic and expensive ones (which definitely aren't going to be used in a mass-produced and cost-sensitive/sold-at-a-loss console) will be flexible and weak when used in a design like this with large unsupported overhangs. No doubt there will be structural elements on the backs of the panels where they can't be seen to make them more rigid (honeycomb patterning or some such), but there clearly isn't on the visible overhangs, which means they will be weak no matter what. I'm willing to bet we'll be seeing quite a few PS5s on the used market in a few years with cracked or broken top corners. It's a clear weak point. Not that it will matter for functionality (as stated in the previous post, the steel housing is what holds it together, the plastic is for aesthetics), but it won't be a durable design. (There is of course also the issue that plastic has near zero scratch resistance (I've caused scratches in shiny plastic by wiping dust off it with a dry microfibre cloth) which will mean that not only won't the design look as clean in real life as it does in renders, it will inevitably degrade further with time (unless you are one of those disturbing people who leaves the plastic wrapping on their electronics).) Also, I never said "cheap plastic" did I?


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## Chomiq (Jul 10, 2020)

One of the major Polish retailers has posted listing for PS5:








						Sony Playstation 5 - Konsole PlayStation - Sklep komputerowy - x-kom.pl
					

Sony Playstation 5 w x-kom.pl > Odbiór za 0 zł w dowolnym salonie, błyskawiczna wysyłka. Zapewniamy inteligentny wybór.




					www.x-kom.pl
				



€559


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## AsRock (Jul 10, 2020)

HAHA, more Marvel crap. now they made Spider Man black haha,  Like OMG can they just not make a new hero up and stop doing this retarded shit.


Anyways i will wait thanks, see how it goes and see if they replace it 6-12 months later and all so see what games are worth playing.


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## Super XP (Jul 14, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Me neither.
> 
> Also, the digital only version can suck it...
> 
> ...


Would love to see Black & Red.


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