# Cheapest 4K HTPC or Similar



## Durvelle27 (Oct 31, 2014)

I'm in need of a PC or similar to stream 4K content and be used as a cable DVR Tuner. So far I've come up with this













Is it possible to build or buy something capable similar to this build but cheaper.


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## Durvelle27 (Nov 1, 2014)

Anyone


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## Toothless (Nov 1, 2014)

Not sure that CPU can handle the load. Nor that GPU can either as it is a laptop-based GPU. Might have to beef it up a bit.


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## Durvelle27 (Nov 1, 2014)

Lightbulbie said:


> Not sure that CPU can handle the load. Nor that GPU can either as it is a laptop-based GPU. Might have to beef it up a bit.


Suggestions 

Price is the biggest factor


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## Toothless (Nov 1, 2014)

Well I know my quad-cored laptop has issues with running 4k. You might need an Intel CPU (low-grade i5) and a dedicated GPU. I'm no expert at 4k and whatnot but I know my desktop ran 4k videos, but my laptop can't.

FX-6300+GTX660 - desktop

3420m+ HD6520G - laptop


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## wickerman (Nov 1, 2014)

I have an AM1 system that I am about to start toying with to see if is a viable HTPC system, as a replacement for the RaspberryPi streamers I have in various locations. They run great but interface can get a bit laggy with a large media collection, and they don't handle high bitrate content that well. So I'm going to be trying this Athlon 5150 under windows 7 + xbmc and openelec or another light weight linus distro with xbmc.

As far as I can tell, there shouldn't be any trouble with most content as the GPU is easily capable of accelerating a variety of content. But I'm not holding out too much hope for 4k at and high bitrates. If you have an example of a typical 4k file you intent to view, I'd be happy to try it out. 

But don't forget the main draw to kibini is the low power, simplicity, and and price. You could easily get some IVB or Haswell based Celeron or Pentium series chips to do this job and they would run rings around kibini. I have a G2120 based system that I use for letting people try my Oculus Rift kits, and that little box as a slim GTX 750 TI. Price wise a build like that is not unreasonable and will sit a fair bit ahead of the AM1 box.  You can grab a G3420 for like $60 typically, and that a Haswell based 3.2ghz dual core with 3mb of cache and intel GD graphics (with quick sync).


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## Durvelle27 (Nov 1, 2014)

wickerman said:


> I have an AM1 system that I am about to start toying with to see if is a viable HTPC system, as a replacement for the RaspberryPi streamers I have in various locations. They run great but interface can get a bit laggy with a large media collection, and they don't handle high bitrate content that well. So I'm going to be trying this Athlon 5150 under windows 7 + xbmc and openelec or another light weight linus distro with xbmc.
> 
> As far as I can tell, there shouldn't be any trouble with most content as the GPU is easily capable of accelerating a variety of content. But I'm not holding out too much hope for 4k at and high bitrates. If you have an example of a typical 4k file you intent to view, I'd be happy to try it out.
> 
> But don't forget the main draw to kibini is the low power, simplicity, and and price. You could easily get some IVB or Haswell based Celeron or Pentium series chips to do this job and they would run rings around kibini. I have a G2120 based system that I use for letting people try my Oculus Rift kits, and that little box as a slim GTX 750 TI. Price wise a build like that is not unreasonable and will sit a fair bit ahead of the AM1 box.  You can grab a G3420 for like $60 typically, and that a Haswell based 3.2ghz dual core with 3mb of cache and intel GD graphics (with quick sync).


Just you're standard 4K Blu-Ray is all nothing special.


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## GhostRyder (Nov 1, 2014)

Durvelle27 said:


> Just you're standard 4K Blu-Ray is all nothing special.


Sorry but your going to need a little more than even the Athlon 5350 for 4k video playback even at 30FPS (Though I have heard mixed reviews back and fourth).  It has been noted that the stress on the CPU is 100% under those conditions just on playback and causes dropped frames (But again I have heard mixed reviews).  I would suggest if you are on a budget doing something like this to keep it cheap yet functional for all your needs:

Pentium G3258 Combo with gigabyte B85 MATX Motherboard
Gskill Ripjaws 1600 4gb (2x2gb)
WD 1tb 7200 RPM (Same you selected)
APEX MATX Case with 275PSU

You can get away with that for a pretty great price at $222 which is about as low as you can go if your intending it to render 4K video.  This CPU with its iGPU both will handle 4K playback just fine as ive seen in reviews along with decent power consumption so you should be more than fine for your needs.  If you want a little more you can always slap an R7 240 or similar for another 50+ bucks if necessary, but this will do a 4K media center HTPC just fine.


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## The Von Matrices (Nov 1, 2014)

Durvelle27 said:


> Just you're standard 4K Blu-Ray is all nothing special.


Blu-ray 4K is far from "nothing special".  There are two major issues with PCs and Blu-ray 4K.

The Blu-ray 4K standard allows videos to be encoded in H.265.  At the moment no GPU has full H.265 decoding capability.  All the 4K video benchmarks you see on other sites test only H.264, which is tremendously easier to decode.  AMD has said nothing about their plans for support of H.265 (although I'm sure they will support it at some point in the future), and all Nvidia has is a H.265 have a hybrid decoding using both the CPU and GPU, but that means you need a powerful CPU.  You aren't going to play H.265 without an expensive system.

The other problem is that Blu-ray 4K uses a new version of HDCP (2.2), which requires support in the display output.  Even if the GPU could decode H.265, if you don't have the right HDCP support you won't be able to play the disc.  The only GPUs that have version of HDCP at the moment are Nvidia GTX 970/980, so you are looking at at least $350 for a GPU to play the disc.

You are going to have spend a lot of money now or wait a while before you can cheaply play Blu-ray 4K on a PC.


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## Toothless (Nov 1, 2014)

Well I learned a few things.

So basically for 4k playback, OP is looking at a gaming-grade HTPC for videos.


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## DayKnight (Nov 1, 2014)

OP talks about 'cheapest' and goes on to select an expensive RAM. Seriously?.

Also, more processor power needed. That 1.3 wont cut it.

The Von Matrices post is pretty spot on. Cheap and 4K dont go hand in hand. Sorry.


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## Durvelle27 (Nov 1, 2014)

The Von Matrices said:


> Blu-ray 4K is far from "nothing special".  There are two major issues with PCs and Blu-ray 4K.
> 
> The Blu-ray 4K standard allows videos to be encoded in H.265.  At the moment no GPU has full H.265 decoding capability.  All the 4K video benchmarks you see on other sites test only H.264, which is tremendously easier to decode.  AMD has said nothing about their plans for support of H.265 (although I'm sure they will support it at some point in the future), and all Nvidia has is a H.265 have a hybrid decoding using both the CPU and GPU, but that means you need a powerful CPU.  You aren't going to play H.265 without an expensive system.
> 
> ...


I have never heard of this 


DayKnight said:


> OP talks about 'cheapest' and goes on to select an expensive RAM. Seriously?.
> 
> Also, more processor power needed. That 1.3 wont cut it.
> 
> The Von Matrices post is pretty spot on. Cheap and 4K dont go hand in hand. Sorry.


This doesn't make sense as the RAM I chose is the cheapest available on Newegg 



GhostRyder said:


> Sorry but your going to need a little more than even the Athlon 5350 for 4k video playback even at 30FPS (Though I have heard mixed reviews back and fourth).  It has been noted that the stress on the CPU is 100% under those conditions just on playback and causes dropped frames (But again I have heard mixed reviews).  I would suggest if you are on a budget doing something like this to keep it cheap yet functional for all your needs:
> 
> Pentium G3258 Combo with gigabyte B85 MATX Motherboard
> Gskill Ripjaws 1600 4gb (2x2gb)
> ...


Not to bad 

Is there e any ITX boards


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## Toothless (Nov 1, 2014)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157390

C'mon now. NewEgg isn't that hard to navigate.


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## Durvelle27 (Nov 1, 2014)

Lightbulbie said:


> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157390
> 
> C'mon now. NewEgg isn't that hard to navigate.


Only has HDMi


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## Toothless (Nov 1, 2014)

Durvelle27 said:


> Only has HDMi


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157374

Was again, pretty easy to find.


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## GhostRyder (Nov 1, 2014)

Durvelle27 said:


> I have never heard of this
> 
> This doesn't make sense as the RAM I chose is the cheapest available on Newegg
> 
> ...


The reason I specified that deal was because you get it with 48 bucks off which basically renders the processor 20 bucks making it a steal.  If your concerned with size try this case as it comes with a 300Watt PSU and is also pretty darn small and its also inexpensive with a 5 in 1 card reader if that is something you would like.  The ITX board selection is ok but they are going to jump the price up quite a lot.



Durvelle27 said:


> Only has HDMi



What inputs do you want?


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## Durvelle27 (Nov 2, 2014)

GhostRyder said:


> The reason I specified that deal was because you get it with 48 bucks off which basically renders the processor 20 bucks making it a steal.  If your concerned with size try this case as it comes with a 300Watt PSU and is also pretty darn small and its also inexpensive with a 5 in 1 card reader if that is something you would like.  The ITX board selection is ok but they are going to jump the price up quite a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> What inputs do you want?


HDMI and DP


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## The Von Matrices (Nov 2, 2014)

DayKnight said:


> OP talks about 'cheapest' and goes on to select an expensive RAM. Seriously?.
> 
> Also, more processor power needed. That 1.3 wont cut it.
> 
> The Von Matrices post is pretty spot on. Cheap and 4K dont go hand in hand. Sorry.


Just to be clear, streaming 4K content (encoded in H.264) can be done with a cheap PC and integrated graphics.  As long as you don't expect the PC to be able to play 4K Blu-ray discs you'll be happy.  Even a cheap AM1 Athlon system can stream and decode 4K with only 50% CPU usage.


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## Durvelle27 (Nov 2, 2014)

The Von Matrices said:


> Just to be clear, streaming 4K content (encoded in H.264) can be done with a cheap PC and integrated graphics.  As long as you don't expect it to play 4K Blu-ray discs then you'll be happy.


More than anything it would be Netflix 4K and Sony 4K. But I did want the option for Blu-Rays if I ever decided to use them


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## Toothless (Nov 2, 2014)

That option for blu-rays will be the wallet wrecker.


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## GhostRyder (Nov 2, 2014)

Durvelle27 said:


> HDMI and DP


Well on motherboards that's a bit of a challenge because generally only expensive ones contain that.

The cheapest I found containing that on Intel at least was the msi b85i but it will add to the price (for itx).


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## Champ (Nov 2, 2014)

I agree with the g3258. Its probably the cheapest processor that is designed to handle that resolution. I think the board when doing multi-media machines is also important. I used a biostar board for my last HTPC. The last one review here (z97 type) did outstanding and the audio was a big point.


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## Jetster (Nov 2, 2014)

How about something like this

http://www.cloudmedia.com/openhour/

Or Intel NUC


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## DayKnight (Nov 2, 2014)

Durvelle27 said:


> I have never heard of this
> 
> This doesn't make sense as the RAM I chose is the cheapest available on Newegg



No used RAM?. No point in gettign a brand new one. 

BTW, I couldn't find it on newegg.


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## GreiverBlade (Nov 2, 2014)

well too bad it's for 4K ... otherwise a 5350 (which is the only Kabini worthy of being used... the Semprons 3850 or under the Athlon 5150 wont cut it unless for a "cheap file server")setup would have been the best in line for his price category... i have one for my mother and it can do Bluray, light gaming (heck i even played Defiance on min settings on it during my holidays...) and my mother love it  ok ... that's no special argument, no intel low end in the same category of price can beat the iGPU of that one, and you get a quadcore instead of a dualcore (ok a dual CMT 2 core but it would count as a dualcore with HT.... even if the IPC is better on intel).

the main thing is i did choose the Athlon 5350 and added 8gb Kingston Fury 1866



Champ said:


> I agree with the g3258. Its probably the cheapest processor that is designed to handle that resolution. I think the board when doing multi-media machines is also important. I used a biostar board for my last HTPC. The last one review here (z97 type) did outstanding and the audio was a big point.


weaker iGPU (tho not so far behind) and also motherboard+cpu combo is stellar (in price) above the Kabini setup... ok it can decode blueray at 4k but at what TDP ...
now i wonder ... since it can do it ... why the Kabini couldn't do it too ... after all the main force of the Kabini APU is the iGPU


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## Durvelle27 (Nov 2, 2014)

GhostRyder said:


> Well on motherboards that's a bit of a challenge because generally only expensive ones contain that.
> 
> The cheapest I found containing that on Intel at least was the msi b85i but it will add to the price (for itx).


Hmmmm I guess I could do without DP



Champ said:


> I agree with the g3258. Its probably the cheapest processor that is designed to handle that resolution. I think the board when doing multi-media machines is also important. I used a biostar board for my last HTPC. The last one review here (z97 type) did outstanding and the audio was a big point.


Audio I'll be using a 5.1 Setup via Spidf



Jetster said:


> How about something like this
> 
> http://www.cloudmedia.com/openhour/
> 
> Or Intel NUC


I thought about the cloud media but it has android on it. I must have Windows for DVR reasons 

The NUC is very appealing but don't know much about them



DayKnight said:


> No used RAM?. No point in gettign a brand new one.
> 
> BTW, I couldn't find it on newegg.


Used RAM would cost the same 



GreiverBlade said:


> well too bad it's for 4K ... otherwise a 5350 (which is the only Kabini worthy of being used... the Semprons 3850 or under the Athlon 5150 wont cut it unless for a "cheap file server")setup would have been the best in line for his price category... i have one for my mother and it can do Bluray, light gaming (heck i even played Defiance on min settings on it during my holidays...) and my mother love it  ok ... that's no special argument, no intel low end in the same category of price can beat the iGPU of that one, and you get a quadcore instead of a dualcore (ok a dual CMT 2 core but it would count as a dualcore with HT.... even if the IPC is better on intel).
> 
> the main thing is i did choose the Athlon 5350 and added 8gb Kingston Fury 1866
> 
> ...


That what has me wondering also.


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## DayKnight (Nov 2, 2014)

Durvelle27 said:


> Used RAM would cost the same



News to me.


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## Jetster (Nov 2, 2014)

XBMC has a DVR set up for Linux. I haven't used it though


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## Durvelle27 (Nov 2, 2014)

Jetster said:


> XBMC has a DVR set up for Linux. I haven't used it though


Drivers on Linux for the turner I'll be using is scarce


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## wickerman (Nov 7, 2014)

dunno if you are still interested but i did get around to testing my 5150 using OpenELEC 4.2.1 which is basically a small, dedicated linux+xbmc distro. Very lightweight and its an x86 version of what I run on RaspberryPi systems for media streaming as well. The 5150 performed well, and was able to run very high bitrate 1080p bluray rips (like my uncompressed lord of the ring trilogy rips weighing in at ~60gb each) without fail, didn't even drop frames while skipping through the files to get to the big action.

4K however was a different story as expected, tried various clips at 2160p ranging from 25-30fps files, with 36 mb/s up to 120 mb/s bitrates. At bet it was a slide show, dropping frames every second or so, and it didn't seem to make a difference using hardware acceleration or multi-threaded software based rendering.

The version of OpenELEC is based on XBMC 13.2, which isn't as optimized for 4k content as the newer Kodi based 14.x so that may have some impact. I'm going to try it under Windows 7 shortly, as I am also curious of the results using the latest builds.

Forgot to list the specs originally, but they are listed below. I had no problem streaming over gigabit ethernet (Realtek RTL8111GR controller) or via local storage (SSD or USB 3.0 stick)
AMD Athlon 5150
ASRock AM1B-ITX
1x 4gb DDR3 1333
Patriot 60gb Pyro SSD (SandForce SF-2281 based)
150w PicoPSU

But those same files streamed fine (over ethernet) to my laptop which has an i5-4250U. Honestly, if you want small & affordable I would turn to the intel NUC series, or maybe Gigabyte's BRIX series. You can get a Haswell based NUC with this same 4350U for around $350 on newegg. Some versions fit 2.5" drives and others have just mSATA, but aside from that you can just drop in 2x DDR3 1600L SO-DIMMs and an 802.11n or 802.11ac wifi card. Ideally you'd be better off relying on the gigabit ethernet if you can, as I'm sure you will run into some buffering with the larger files. Also note it is very easy to drill a small hole in that front panel, and modify a USB IR receiver to be powered internally, so you can avoid having a goofy looking dongle sticking out the front. Have done it myself, and you may as well do it while you have the case open installing the ram/storage/wifi initially.

hope that helps, would be happy to share the rest of my tinkering with this thing.


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## Durvelle27 (Nov 10, 2014)

wickerman said:


> dunno if you are still interested but i did get around to testing my 5150 using OpenELEC 4.2.1 which is basically a small, dedicated linux+xbmc distro. Very lightweight and its an x86 version of what I run on RaspberryPi systems for media streaming as well. The 5150 performed well, and was able to run very high bitrate 1080p bluray rips (like my uncompressed lord of the ring trilogy rips weighing in at ~60gb each) without fail, didn't even drop frames while skipping through the files to get to the big action.
> 
> 4K however was a different story as expected, tried various clips at 2160p ranging from 25-30fps files, with 36 mb/s up to 120 mb/s bitrates. At bet it was a slide show, dropping frames every second or so, and it didn't seem to make a difference using hardware acceleration or multi-threaded software based rendering.
> 
> ...


Hmmmmm thanks


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## D007 (Nov 10, 2014)

4k not on an SSD? Those texture load ins are going to kill you.
I'm not sure I understand entirely what you are doing though.
I guess this is not like, for you to game with at all.
I sure hope not.


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## DayKnight (Nov 10, 2014)

D007 said:


> 4k not on an SSD? Those texture load ins are going to kill you.



What 'texture load ins'?.


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## D007 (Nov 10, 2014)

DayKnight said:


> What 'texture load ins'?.



When you are gaming, depending on your resolution, textures and screens may load very slowly if your system can't hack it.
You could sit at a blackscreen for 60 seconds sometimes, if the system isn't up to par.
Like when you transition from one area/map, to another area/map.


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## Durvelle27 (Nov 10, 2014)

D007 said:


> 4k not on an SSD? Those texture load ins are going to kill you.
> I'm not sure I understand entirely what you are doing though.
> I guess this is not like, for you to game with at all.
> I sure hope not.


Not for gaming 

Only TV and movies


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## erocker (Nov 10, 2014)

What's your upstream internet bandwidth like?


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## Durvelle27 (Nov 10, 2014)

30/10


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## DayKnight (Nov 10, 2014)

D007 said:


> When you are gaming, depending on your resolution, textures and screens may load very slowly if your system can't hack it.
> You could sit at a blackscreen for 60 seconds sometimes, if the system isn't up to par.
> Like when you transition from one area/map, to another area/map.





This is what happens when people dont read the OP and presume. 

He is in-need of a HTPC, which means no gaming.


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## erocker (Nov 10, 2014)

Durvelle27 said:


> 30/10


I get a 60/10 connection and streaming in 4k wants more. 1440p works nicely though.


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## Durvelle27 (Nov 10, 2014)

erocker said:


> I get a 60/10 connection and streaming in 4k wants more. 1440p works nicely though.


What are the streaming requirements. I can freely upgrade to 50/10


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## erocker (Nov 11, 2014)

I would think you would need at least a 20 up connection. Probably more.


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## Durvelle27 (Nov 11, 2014)

erocker said:


> I would think you would need at least a 20 up connection. Probably more.


Wow really


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## D007 (Nov 11, 2014)

DayKnight said:


> This is what happens when people dont read the OP and presume.
> 
> He is in-need of a HTPC, which means no gaming.



And this is what happens when people care about post whoring.. Moving on.


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## Aquinus (Nov 11, 2014)

erocker said:


> I would think you would need at least a 20 up connection. Probably more.


What does upstream have to do with streaming? Unless he's hosting the content his upstream bandwidth should be inconsequential. Even streaming 1080p, you might be using 2-5Mbps of downstream but only a handful of KB in upstream. If it's content on the network or coming from the internet, upstream more than a couple Mbit shouldn't make much of a difference. My gateway being a quad-core tower makes it easy to monitor things like this and I don't see the behavior that you're implying and I don't think you're right if you're not talking about hosting content.



D007 said:


> And this is what happens when people care about post whoring.. Moving on.


No, he was pointing out how you didn't read the first post because if you did you would know that this to be strictly a HTPC. You were post whoring by blindly posting in the thread, not him. At least he knew this was intended to be a 4k HTPC... Heck, even the subject/thread title says "Cheapest 4k HTPC or similar".


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## Durvelle27 (Nov 11, 2014)

Aquinus said:


> What does upstream have to do with streaming? Unless he's hosting the content his upstream bandwidth should be inconsequential. Even streaming 1080p, you might be using 2-5Mbps of downstream but only a handful of KB in upstream. If it's content on the network or coming from the internet, upstream more than a couple Mbit shouldn't make much of a difference. My gateway being a quad-core tower makes it easy to monitor things like this and I don't see the behavior that you're implying and I don't think you're right if you're not talking about hosting content.
> 
> 
> No, he was pointing out how you didn't read the first post because if you did you would know that this to be strictly a HTPC. You were post whoring by blindly posting in the thread, not him. At least he knew this was intended to be a 4k HTPC... Heck, even the subject/thread title says "Cheapest 4k HTPC or similar".


This was what I thought also.


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