# What is your max infinity fabric on ryzen 5000? September 2021 edition



## Taraquin (Sep 17, 2021)

Requirements: Use agesa 1.2.0.0 or greater, before 1.2.0.0 pushing past 1900 IF was impossible for me, now I can do 2066.

If you have wheas, but system runs stable, please report. In many cases a sufficently high iod and soc voltage, and low ccd and vddp volt can help. 40mv stepping is suggested to help. Suggestion:
880 or 920 vddp, 920 ccd, 1040 iod past 1900 IF, 1120 soc past 1900. If above 4000 keep ccd and vddp the same, but 1080 iod and 1160 soc. At 4200 you will probably need 1200 soc or maybe 1240 which is into unsafe territory. 
ProcODT should be 28-37 for 2 x single rank sticks and 28-48 for dual tank or 4 sticks, 37 or above is usually required. Resistances often work on auto. 

If you have a stable 2000 IF please post zentimings for others to get tips.





This is my stable 4000-setting, no wheas, no TM5 errors. Ram us poor bin so even at 1.55V flat 15 is not errorfree. I can run 4133/2066 with no wheas, BUT I need 1200mv soc to not take a performancehit and performance is very similar to 4000 so not worth it. Newer agesas might reduce voltage reqs like it did on my 3600. It was never stable above 3733/1866, semi stable at 3800/1900 and 1150v soc and 1075v iod, but agesa 1.2.0.3b made 3800/1900 100% stable at 1100mv soc and 1050mv iod.


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## Mussels (Sep 17, 2021)

I cant go beyond 1866, but i dont know if my RAM is the issue.


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## Taraquin (Sep 17, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I cant go beyond 1866, but i dont know if my RAM is the issue.


Set your ram to a lower speed you know works and try 1900 IF+, they desync so latency is terrible, but you find out if your IF works/is stable. Try the volt/procodt settings and see if it boots  

In general, if IF is unstable it either don't boot or you get random restarts out of nowhere. Wheas might occur too, but in some cases they don't make the system unstable.


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## cvaldes (Sep 18, 2021)

I don't use ZenTimings so I don't have a screenshot.

I do have an SFF build (NZXT H210) with a Ryzen 5600X, ASUS ROG Strix X570-I motherboard and T-Force Dark Zα 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 4000MHz CL18 RAM. 

D.O.C.P. is set to Profile #1 in the BIOS. No other memory tuning was done. FCLK and UCLK are both 2,000 MHz. PBO is enabled but no other CPU overclocking adjustments have been done.

The system (with Nvidia GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER FE) plays games stably on a 1440p/165Hz monitor. I don't bother with benchmarks.


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## freeagent (Sep 18, 2021)

2000 stable on my 5600X, can bench it at 2100. 1900 on my 5900X, I cant nail down 2K stable, maybe I am soo soft with voltage. Every time a new AGESA comes out I try..


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## Mussels (Sep 19, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Set your ram to a lower speed you know works and try 1900 IF+, they desync so latency is terrible, but you find out if your IF works/is stable. Try the volt/procodt settings and see if it boots
> 
> In general, if IF is unstable it either don't boot or you get random restarts out of nowhere. Wheas might occur too, but in some cases they don't make the system unstable.


Fair point, but i always have that suspicion that the out of sync IF may cause issues that i mistake for instability


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## purecain (Sep 19, 2021)

With 4x8gb Im stuck at 1800mhz infinity fabric. iirc. I need to check it on my next boot.


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## freeagent (Sep 19, 2021)

4x8 on my 5600X is stable at 1833, anything more isn’t guaranteed. 4x8 on my 5900X is stable at 1866, 1900 is showing stable, but has a hard time cold booting occasionally.


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## Taraquin (Sep 19, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Fair point, but i always have that suspicion that the out of sync IF may cause issues that i mistake for instability


I don't think it would, only issue I'm aware of is bad perf


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## cellar door (Sep 19, 2021)

Even with the the newest 1.2.0.3c - my Ryzen 3600 won't go stable past 3733mhz, it will 'work' at 3800(1900IF) but will eventually error out/reboot randomly. No matter the voltage.

Good to hear, that I'm not alone being stuck on 3733mhz, I suspected this was where most chips end up. Even though my chip can do 4.5ghz allcore(most likely a chip that didn't make XT bin)



Taraquin said:


> Requirements: Use agesa 1.2.0.0 or greater, before 1.2.0.0 pushing past 1900 IF was impossible for me, now I can do 2066.
> 
> If you have wheas, but system runs stable, please report. In many cases a sufficently high iod and soc voltage, and low ccd and vddp volt can help. 40mv stepping is suggested to help. Suggestion:
> 880 or 920 vddp, 920 ccd, 1040 iod past 1900 IF, 1120 soc past 1900. If above 4000 keep ccd and vddp the same, but 1080 iod and 1160 soc. At 4200 you will probably need 1200 soc or maybe 1240 which is into unsafe territory.
> ...


What's your latency on that setup in Aida64?


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## Taraquin (Sep 19, 2021)

cellar door said:


> Even with the the newest 1.2.0.3c - my Ryzen 3600 won't go stable past 3733mhz, it will 'work' at 3800(1900IF) but will eventually error out/reboot randomly. No matter the voltage.
> 
> Good to hear, that I'm not alone being stuck on 3733mhz, I suspected this was where most chips end up. Even though my chip can do 4.5ghz allcore(most likely a chip that didn't make XT bin)
> 
> ...


52 on the 5600X. Getting above 3800/1900 is unusual on Ryzen 3000, but quite common on Ryzen 5000.


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## cellar door (Sep 19, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> 52 on the 5600X. Getting above 3800/1900 is unusual on Ryzen 3000, but quite common on Ryzen 5000.


How about on your R5 3600? I'm using e-die, so far have it down to 64.5ns


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## Taraquin (Sep 20, 2021)

cellar door said:


> How about on your R5 3600? I'm using e-die, so far have it down to 64.5ns


Best is 66ns, sold it recently to a friend of mine. 4.1GHz all core, 3733cl15-20-8-11-21, 56 trc, 525 trfc, 1t and others tuned tight. Bad bin on cpu so can't get over 4.1GHz. Same latency on 3800 (cl16, trc 58, trfc 535) aswell since I have to loosen a few timings, but write speed is better and dram calc us 2 sec faster. Unfortunately rev E scales tRCDRD negatively with voltage so if I raise volt to 1.45V or above to lower CL, I must set tRCDRD to 21 :/ At 3733 I ran 1.44V, at 3800 I need 1.46V. With 1.4V I could do 3733cl16-19-8-11, but is was a bit slower vs 15-20-8-11.


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## Calmmo (Sep 20, 2021)

Haven't pushed past 1900 as I would have to push more than 1.45v to get my ram to run at the c16 current timings, so.. i dont really know


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## cellar door (Sep 20, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Best is 66ns, sold it recently to a friend of mine. 4.1GHz all core, 3733cl15-20-8-11-21, 56 trc, 525 trfc, 1t and others tuned tight. Bad bin on cpu so can't get over 4.1GHz. Same latency on 3800 (cl16, trc 58, trfc 535) aswell since I have to loosen a few timings, but write speed is better and dram calc us 2 sec faster. Unfortunately rev E scales tRCDRD negatively with voltage so if I raise volt to 1.45V or above to lower CL, I must set tRCDRD to 21 :/ At 3733 I ran 1.44V, at 3800 I need 1.46V. With 1.4V I could do 3733cl16-19-8-11, but is was a bit slower vs 15-20-8-11.


Interesting - this is all with micron e-die(rev.E)? If so, you just gave me some ideas.


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## Taraquin (Sep 20, 2021)

cellar door said:


> Interesting - this is all with micron e-die(rev.E)? If so, you just gave me some ideas.


Mine might respond different than yours, mine hates low tRCDRD, I know some handles that timing better than mine, but mine likes lower trfc than most rev E.


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## cellar door (Sep 20, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Mine might respond different than yours, mine hates low tRCDRD, I know some handles that timing better than mine, but mine likes lower trfc than most rev E.


Basically its the same for tRCDRD for me, 20 is stable - its a hallmark this of e-die. Ok but thanks for confirming that you were using those ICs, now I can try couple things on my end so see if I can improve the timings.

Below are my settings so right now.


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## Taraquin (Sep 20, 2021)

cellar door said:


> Basically its the same for tRCDRD for me, 20 is stable - its a hallmark this of e-die. Ok but thanks for confirming that you were using those ICs, now I can try couple things on my end so see if I can improve the timings.
> 
> Below are my settings so right now.


I used to run 1.44V, cl 15, rp 11, gdm off, rrdl 4, wtrs 3, wtrl 6, trc 56, 525 trc, 10 wr, 5 rtp.
Try lower vddp, 900, iod and ccd should be 1050 or lower, soc should be 1100 or lower. I ran 1075 soc, 825 iod and ccd, and 775 vddp 

At 3800 I needed 1050 iod/ccd and 1100 soc, 800 vddp.


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## ir_cow (Sep 20, 2021)

I can get 2066 MHz with the SoC at 1.25 V.  2066-2166 with 1.35 V. I didn't like the SoC so high, but it is stable if I so desire to run it. I personally like 3800 / 1900. I don't have to use Gear Down Mode so the latency is actually lower and the bandwidth is higher. Also Soc is 1.15v. Much much safer for long term use.

Honestly I believe a lot of this limitation has to do with the motherboard you are using. I'm loving this MSI B550 Unify-X. I couldn't get anything to boot above 4600 mem before with a ASUS X570 Hero. Now 5066 is possible with less voltage all around. Even the IF goes to 2066 with ease.


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## cellar door (Sep 20, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> I used to run 1.44V, cl 15, rp 11, gdm off, rrdl 4, wtrs 3, wtrl 6, trc 56, 525 trc, 10 wr, 5 rtp.
> Try lower vddp, 900, iod and ccd should be 1050 or lower, soc should be 1100 or lower. I ran 1075 soc, 825 iod and ccd, and 775 vddp
> 
> At 3800 I needed 1050 iod/ccd and 1100 soc, 800 vddp.


The soc on my chip needs 1.1 to boot 3600. vddp iod and ccd also won't go lower without eventually causing errors - this might have something to do with the fact my chip is from the newer batch(bad XT bin most likely).

But I'm going to test out some of the lower timings you were running, I only have a low bin 3000cl15 ballistix sport LT kit. Frquency wise it can go past 4000, however for ex. 525 trfc is a instant crash for me, your kit is most likely a way better bin.


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## freeagent (Sep 20, 2021)

ir_cow said:


> Honestly I believe a lot of this limitation has to do with the motherboard you are using.


I think it’s more CPU than anything. My 5600X is stable at 2K and can bench at 2100 1:1 but I cannot get my 5900X stable at 2K on the same board, same ram, same everything.


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## Splinterdog (Sep 21, 2021)




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## ir_cow (Sep 21, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I think it’s more CPU than anything. My 5600X is stable at 2K and can bench at 2100 1:1 but I cannot get my 5900X stable at 2K on the same board, same ram, same everything.


It is just the opposite for me. Both my 3800X and 5800X can achieve higher results with less voltage.  Same AGESA and everything. Just different boards. Don't get my wrong, there are CPU duds out in the wild, but those who can't get 1800 MHz stable on Zen 3 either have a crap motherboard or doing something wrong 99% of the time.

Other factors like Dual Rank, vs Single, IC Density and voltages, Gear Down Mode all play a vital role in reaching 2000 or above.


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## freeagent (Sep 21, 2021)

ir_cow said:


> It is just the opposite for me. Both my 3800X and 5800X can achieve higher results with less voltage.  Same AGESA and everything. Just different boards. Don't get my wrong, there are CPU duds out in the wild, but those who can't get 1800 MHz stable on Zen 3 either have a crap motherboard or doing something wrong 99% of the time.
> 
> Other factors like Dual Rank, vs Single, IC Density and voltages, Gear Down Mode all play a vital role in reaching 2000 or above.


I've tried all the beta bios that Asus put out over the last year.. probably 10 of them for sure. I only need 1.15625v SOC for 2000 on my 5600X. 1.1625 gets me up to 2100. As for 1800FCLK, we are talking about 2K in this thread, no? In my other post I was saying my 56 can my 59 cant, I used hella voltage too, more than I normally would have for sure. Not a big deal though.. just a little disappointing. I do prefer dual ranked smoothness over high MHs single rank for most things.. at least that's what I keep telling myself. I still enjoy playing with my 5600X, it really is a lot of fun.. the only thing wrong with it is its not a 5900X.


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## Taraquin (Sep 21, 2021)

cellar door said:


> The soc on my chip needs 1.1 to boot 3600. vddp iod and ccd also won't go lower without eventually causing errors - this might have something to do with the fact my chip is from the newer batch(bad XT bin most likely).
> 
> But I'm going to test out some of the lower timings you were running, I only have a low bin 3000cl15 ballistix sport LT kit. Frquency wise it can go past 4000, however for ex. 525 trfc is a instant crash for me, your kit is most likely a way better bin.


My kit is also the 3000cl15  Usually the avg rev E can do 300ns, mine does 280. You can probably do anywhere from 530 to 580 depending on bin. Do you have agesa 1.2.0.3b? Before that I was stuck at 3733 getting random reboots, after 3800 worked fine. 



ir_cow said:


> I can get 2066 MHz with the SoC at 1.25 V.  2066-2166 with 1.35 V. I didn't like the SoC so high, but it is stable if I so desire to run it. I personally like 3800 / 1900. I don't have to use Gear Down Mode so the latency is actually lower and the bandwidth is higher. Also Soc is 1.15v. Much much safer for long term use.
> 
> Honestly I believe a lot of this limitation has to do with the motherboard you are using. I'm loving this MSI B550 Unify-X. I couldn't get anything to boot above 4600 mem before with a ASUS X570 Hero. Now 5066 is possible with less voltage all around. Even the IF goes to 2066 with ease.


Talking to cellar door or me?  He's on ryzen 3000 which rarely can do more than 3800. I can do 4133, I might be able to do 4200+, but it would require way to much soc voltage for my comfort. I need 1.12V for 4000, 1.18V for 4066 and 1.25V for 4133. I bet 4200 would need atleast 1.32V. 1.2V is by many considered upper safe limit.

My MB is cheap, but it has only 2 dimms (helps a lot with ram oc compared to 4) and is rated for 5100MHz ram on Ryzen 3000, max 4600 on Ryzen 5000 which makes little sense...

AAs for ram oc I'm limited by bad bin ram, it has a 94% rating on dram calc, making it sub avg compared to other B-die. 1T and liw tRCDRD is very hard, trfc won't go below 141ns at 1.46V. The rev E I had was 102% rated so it beat the majority of rev E.


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## cellar door (Sep 21, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> My kit is also the 3000cl15  Usually the avg rev E can do 300ns, mine does 280. You can probably do anywhere from 530 to 580 depending on bin. Do you have agesa 1.2.0.3b? Before that I was stuck at 3733 getting random reboots, after 3800 worked fine.
> 
> 
> Talking to cellar door or me?  He's on ryzen 3000 which rarely can do more than 3800. I can do 4133, I might be able to do 4200+, but it would require way to much soc voltage for my comfort. I need 1.12V for 4000, 1.18V for 4066 and 1.25V for 4133. I bet 4200 would need atleast 1.32V. 1.2V is by many considered upper safe limit.
> ...


Where you are you reading that ram rating in dram calc? I'm using Ryzen calc 1.7.3v


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## Taraquin (Sep 21, 2021)

cellar door said:


> Where you are you reading that ram rating in dram calc? I'm using Ryzen calc 1.7.3v


Import profile made from thaipoon burner using manual, then there is a qualityrating somewhere.


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## cellar door (Sep 21, 2021)

Thanks, I forgot about that - thought it was a gimmick back when I tried it a year ago. 101% for my kit.


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## Taraquin (Sep 21, 2021)

cellar door said:


> Thanks, I forgot about that - thought it was a gimmick back when I tried it a year ago. 101% for my kit.


You should be able to get close to most my timings then since my kit was 102% (if the rating can be trusted).


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## cellar door (Sep 21, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> You should be able to get close to most my timings then since my kit was 102% (if the rating can be trusted).


Just did some preliminary testing and yeah - they work, along with my other previously set subtimmings.

The latency hasn't really improved and I'm getting pretty much similar readings for Read/Write/Copy in Aida 64.

What is up with tRCDWR being able to run at 8, and tRP at 11, and tRAS at only 21? Although I find that below tRAS 26, I have noticed an increase in Membench (ryzen calc).

These are some wild timings and way lower then what the calculator suggests or any other screenshot of e-die kits or even any other threads on the net I've seen. Where these long term stable for you, no whea errors or crashes?

To add, I can do cl14 at 1.49V with all these same timings.


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## Chomiq (Sep 21, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> You should be able to get close to most my timings then since my kit was 102% (if the rating can be trusted).


Have you ever saw Rev E with lower rating? Because as far as I'm aware that "rating" is just based on a lookup table for memory chips. So any Rev E will be rated as 102%.


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## cellar door (Sep 21, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> Have you ever saw Rev E with lower rating? Because as far as I'm aware that "rating" is just based on a lookup table for memory chips. So any Rev E will be rated as 102%.


That's what I was wondering as well - how is that rating calculated?


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## Chomiq (Sep 21, 2021)

cellar door said:


> That's what I was wondering as well - how is that rating calculated?


It looks like it is actually calculating something, whatever that means:
Micron Rev E Dual Rank 2x16 GB 3600 CL16:




Micron Rev E Single Rank 2x8 GB 3200 CL16:


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## Taraquin (Sep 21, 2021)

cellar door said:


> Just did some preliminary testing and yeah - they work, along with my other previously set subtimmings.
> 
> The latency hasn't really improved and I'm getting pretty much similar readings for Read/Write/Copy in Aida 64.
> 
> ...


I consider aida a poor benchmark, use dram calc test og see how long it takes. Only thing I use aida for is estabilshing if soc/iod volt is high enough, as too low volt gives 3-5ns higher latency.



Chomiq said:


> It looks like it is actually calculating something, whatever that means:
> Micron Rev E Dual Rank 2x16 GB 3600 CL16:
> View attachment 217692
> Micron Rev E Single Rank 2x8 GB 3200 CL16:
> View attachment 217693


No one except Usmus knows what they test for, but it seems to matter as my B-die which has 94% and generally needing 0.05V more than comparable sets is on spot, while my rev E do better tRP and tRFC than most.

How do the dual rank kit hold up? I bet if the rating is valid you could expect quite low tRCDRD, tRC and tRFC comoared to most rev E


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## AVATARAT (Sep 21, 2021)

4000 IF stable, I can go up but with Whea errors. 
In AIDA 52 ns.
VSOC auto under 1.10V
Up to 5150MHz boost on the fastest core.


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## Taraquin (Sep 21, 2021)

AVATARAT said:


> 4000 IF stable, I can go up but with Whea errors.
> In AIDA 52 ns.
> VSOC auto under 1.10V
> Up to 5150MHz boost on the fastest core.


Nice, how do you get +400MHz pbo boost? Use curve optimizer? 

As for timings you could try 4wtrs, 12 wtrl, 12 wr, 6 rtp and probably lower trfc sub 300.


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## AVATARAT (Sep 21, 2021)

For frequency above 4.85GHz, you need BIOS with AGESA *before* 1.1.9.0 (that's for my mobo) and, I am not sure, but probably 5600x with one CCX. (And yes Curve Optimizer).
After this AGESA, AMD locked the boost to be max up to 4.85GHz for 5600x.
I don't know why.

I set it up from this menu:




I will try this timings, thank you.


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## cellar door (Sep 21, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> I consider aida a poor benchmark, use dram calc test og see how long it takes. Only thing I use aida for is estabilshing if soc/iod volt is high enough, as too low volt gives 3-5ns higher latency.
> 
> 
> No one except Usmus knows what they test for, but it seems to matter as my B-die which has 94% and generally needing 0.05V more than comparable sets is on spot, while my rev E do better tRP and tRFC than most.
> ...


Aida64 is consistent and has been for a very long time, it's reliable, at least in my experience - that makes it good in my eyes.

With some more testing going as low as the timings you posted, has actually produced detrimental results. The system remained stable but latency was up and write/read/copy will down. Membench in Ryzen calc didn't improve either. Maybe it's my board or my kit. Increasing voltage didn't help.

But I did manage to drop couple timings a small bit, getting me down to 64ns.


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## freeagent (Sep 21, 2021)

That's pretty neat. So a 5600X used to boost like a 5900X? I would flash back just to be able to do that.. Does that +400 work on all Zen 3?


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## AVATARAT (Sep 22, 2021)

freeagent said:


> That's pretty neat. So a 5600X used to boost like a 5900X? I would flash back just to be able to do that.. Does that +400 work on all Zen 3?


I know only for 5600x.


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## Taraquin (Sep 22, 2021)

cellar door said:


> Aida64 is consistent and has been for a very long time, it's reliable, at least in my experience - that makes it good in my eyes.
> 
> With some more testing going as low as the timings you posted, has actually produced detrimental results. The system remained stable but latency was up and write/read/copy will down. Membench in Ryzen calc didn't improve either. Maybe it's my board or my kit. Increasing voltage didn't help.
> 
> But I did manage to drop couple timings a small bit, getting me down to 64ns.


I get no improvement in aida lowering trrdl by 2, tRP by 1, tRC by 1, tWR by 2, tRTP by 1, and tRFC by 6. In dram calc that gives me 2 sec lower on the dram calc test. Could be that timings you try are mismatched? TRFC apoarently likes to be divideable by tRC and/or tRTP. If you use tRC 56, then 560 tRFC might work better than 550, or if you use 6 tRTP 540 tRFC might be perfect. 

Some timings like to be configured in pairs, tRTP likes to be half tWR, tRDWR likes to be half tRCDRD on SR-sticks or a bit higher on DR. Trrdl likes to be equal to or 2 higher than trrds.


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## AVATARAT (Sep 22, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> As for timings you could try 4wtrs, 12 wtrl, 12 wr, 6 rtp and probably lower trfc sub 300.


I can't go 6 RTP but other timings are fine, so I trying to achieve 2033 IF now  
But I am a bit worry about SoC above 1.10V and for IF 2033 I need 1.131V.


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## Taraquin (Sep 22, 2021)

AVATARAT said:


> I can't go 6 RTP but other timings are fine, so I trying to achieve 2033 IF now
> But I am a bit worry about SoC above 1.10V and for IF 2033 I need 1.131V.


1.15V is technically considered safe, above is a bit more unsafe.


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## freeagent (Sep 22, 2021)

Over 1.16 on my 5600X gets me no where, same with on my 5900. I see people recommending 1.25 soc and it just makes me cringe.


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## evilhf (Oct 4, 2021)

Muito bom !


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## Mussels (Oct 4, 2021)

evilhf said:


> Muito bom !


This forum is english only, btw


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## Taraquin (Oct 4, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Over 1.16 on my 5600X gets me no where, same with on my 5900. I see people recommending 1.25 soc and it just makes me cringe.


I need 1.18V to run 2033 IF without performance drop, 2066 needs 1.24V. 2100 I have not been able to boot. 1.3V maybe?  This eats into the powerbudget so performance is the same as 2000 which gets away with 1.12V (technically 1.11V works fine too, but 1.1V and lower gives me perf penalty). My soc scaling is good up to 2000 IF. 1900 needs 1.06, 1933 1.08, 1966 1.1 etc.


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## AlwaysHope (Oct 10, 2021)

I find the Zen 3 chips unimpressive with IF & Ram oc. Is it just me or is the general consensus? 
I mean Intel with Z590 boards get up to & over 5000Mhz with ram. For DDR4, that's very good imo. 
Such a dilemma going on with upgrading atm. Alder lake & Win 11 with DDR5 bring too much change too soon with new tech. In any case early next month we all will soon know...


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## Mussels (Oct 10, 2021)

AlwaysHope said:


> I find the Zen 3 chips unimpressive with IF & Ram oc. Is it just me or is the general consensus?
> I mean Intel with Z590 boards get up to & over 5000Mhz with ram. For DDR4, that's very good imo.
> Such a dilemma going on with upgrading atm. Alder lake & Win 11 with DDR5 bring too much change too soon with new tech. In any case early next month we all will soon know...


Yeah, Zen isn't great with RAM OC.

But on the Intel side, almost nothing actually benefits from the faster RAM (i saw plenty of reviews showing that while they can go faster, outside synthetic benches the gains were very small)


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## freeagent (Oct 10, 2021)

Yeah they don't clock worth a dam, that's why we get so excited over the smallest of gains


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## AlwaysHope (Oct 11, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Yeah, Zen isn't great with RAM OC.
> 
> But on the Intel side, almost nothing actually benefits from the faster RAM (i saw plenty of reviews showing that while they can go faster, outside synthetic benches the gains were very small)


But when your an enthusiast, every gain is.... a gain! 
Benchmark status is IMPORTANT. 
IF was more impactful on Zen+ but the IMC could have been better overall.


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## mtcn77 (Oct 11, 2021)

I don't think this is a good test. IF can support dram ratios as high as 2.66. It is not a bottleneck.


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## Taraquin (Oct 11, 2021)

AlwaysHope said:


> I find the Zen 3 chips unimpressive with IF & Ram oc. Is it just me or is the general consensus?
> I mean Intel with Z590 boards get up to & over 5000Mhz with ram. For DDR4, that's very good imo.
> Such a dilemma going on with upgrading atm. Alder lake & Win 11 with DDR5 bring too much change too soon with new tech. In any case early next month we all will soon know...


You can run 5000 ram at Zen 3 just like with rocket lake, but on Zen 3 inifity fabric maxes out between 1900 and 2100, on Rocket lake between 1800 and 1900, above that fclk 2:1 or Gear 2 is activated.

10th gen Intel or 5xxxG is most impressive ram oc wise. They can both do 4500+ at synced IF\Gear 1.

Alder lake will spin further with the Gear-bullshit which greatly increases latency. Gear 4 is now a thing... I wonder what max clock you can run your ram at in Gear 1? Not surprised if it`s below 6000...


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## Ibizadr (Oct 12, 2021)

I try today to oc my ram from 3200 to 3600. It's a Samsung b die, I disable xmp put all timings auto rise voltage to 1.45v and let soc and other voltage settings on auto. Computer turn on but don't enter on windows give me a bsod. What I need to do to get this fixed? See what timings it used on auto? Use dram calculator settings and let voltages on auto? Now I revert it with my last settings saved on bios but running at 3200mhz cl16. How I got 3600MHz since it's a Samsung b die its fearly easy?


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## Mussels (Oct 12, 2021)

I've been slowly ticking mine up 1:1 looking for instability (all my old testing was useless, with that burning out PCI-E cable)

Currently at 1866/3733 nice and stable, with my garbage CL18 timings



Ibizadr said:


> I try today to oc my ram from 3200 to 3600. It's a Samsung b die, I disable xmp put all timings auto rise voltage to 1.45v and let soc and other voltage settings on auto. Computer turn on but don't enter on windows give me a bsod. What I need to do to get this fixed? See what timings it used on auto? Use dram calculator settings and let voltages on auto? Now I revert it with my last settings saved on bios but running at 3200mhz cl16. How I got 3600MHz since it's a Samsung b die its fearly easy?


Doesn't matter if its B-die, you may just be pushing it too hard.

XMP on, then raise it one or two steps at a time


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## Taraquin (Oct 12, 2021)

Ibizadr said:


> I try today to oc my ram from 3200 to 3600. It's a Samsung b die, I disable xmp put all timings auto rise voltage to 1.45v and let soc and other voltage settings on auto. Computer turn on but don't enter on windows give me a bsod. What I need to do to get this fixed? See what timings it used on auto? Use dram calculator settings and let voltages on auto? Now I revert it with my last settings saved on bios but running at 3200mhz cl16. How I got 3600MHz since it's a Samsung b die its fearly easy?


You may need to tune some other voltages etc. You on agesa 1.2.0.3 or later? Try 28-34 procodt, 1.08v soc, 0.98v iod, 0.94v ccd and 0.9v vddp, resistances at 24 20 24 24.


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## Ibizadr (Oct 12, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I've been slowly ticking mine up 1:1 looking for instability (all my old testing was useless, with that burning out PCI-E cable)
> 
> Currently at 1866/3733 nice and stable, with my garbage CL18 timings
> 
> ...



But what I read in almost every site is Samsung b die can run @ 4000 without problems. I will try to change voltages and try to boot with timings on auto or use some guide numbers give in calculator?



Taraquin said:


> You may need to tune some other voltages etc. You on agesa 1.2.0.3 or later? Try 28-34 procodt, 1.08v soc, 0.98v iod, 0.94v ccd and 0.9v vddp, resistances at 24 20 24 24.


I'm in 1.2.0.2 last bios I have before this new beta with 1.2.0.3c.
My ram kit have a version with 3600 @ 18-22-22-42 and 1.35v. Can I use this timmings and voltages give in your advice and ram calculator to try to boot?


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## Mussels (Oct 12, 2021)

Ibizadr said:


> But what I read in almost every site is Samsung b die can run @ 4000 without problems. I will try to change voltages and try to boot with timings on auto or use some guide numbers give in calculator?


And?

It's overclocking. There are no guarantees. Do the work, test it and find the limit. Your CPU or board may hold you back, and you'll never know without actually testing.


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## Taraquin (Oct 12, 2021)

Ibizadr said:


> But what I read in almost every site is Samsung b die can run @ 4000 without problems. I will try to change voltages and try to boot with timings on auto or use some guide numbers give in calculator?
> 
> 
> I'm in 1.2.0.2 last bios I have before this new beta with 1.2.0.3c.
> My ram kit have a version with 3600 @ 18-22-22-42 and 1.35v. Can I use this timmings and voltages give in your advice and ram calculator to try to boot?


You sure they are B-die? 18-22-22 smells like Micron or Hynix. Just try to boot 3600 at those timings, try the voltages I said and set all other timings to auto, don't use ram calc yet. Find highest syable speed first, then tweak timings.


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## Ibizadr (Oct 12, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> You sure they are B-die? 18-22-22 smells like Micron or Hynix. Just try to boot 3600 at those timings, try the voltages I said and set all other timings to auto, don't use ram calc yet. Find highest syable speed first, then tweak timings.


Mine are 3200mhz cl16-18-18-36 b die kit but I will post an ss from thaipoon memory. I will try it tonight now I'm on route to work and don't have time to test it

@Taraquin this is my ram. 3200 cl16 Samsung b die


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## Taraquin (Oct 12, 2021)

Ibizadr said:


> Mine are 3200mhz cl16-18-18-36 b die kit but I will post an ss from thaipoon memory. I will try it tonight now I'm on route to work and don't have time to test it
> 
> @Taraquin this is my ram. 3200 cl16 Samsung b die


Thaiphoon sometimes report wrong, and 3200 16-18-18 is very seldom B-die, but you could doba simple test: at 3200 and 1.45V, try running 250tRFC, if it boots and seems stable you have B-die. Non-B-die won't be able to do below 300.


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## Ibizadr (Oct 12, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Thaiphoon sometimes report wrong, and 3200 16-18-18 is very seldom B-die, but you could doba simple test: at 3200 and 1.45V, try running 250tRFC, if it boots and seems stable you have B-die. Non-B-die won't be able to do below 300.


So I think it's not b die because I try that and can't do with 312(number gives in dram calculator) but I try with 1.35v not with 1.45v,but I will try that later


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## Taraquin (Oct 12, 2021)

Ibizadr said:


> So I think it's not b die because I try that and can't do with 312(number gives in dram calculator) but I try with 1.35v not with 1.45v,but I will try that later


1.35V should be able to boot 312 since it scales with voltage. Try the voltages I suggested and 18-22-22 with rest at auto, try 1.4V on sticks since we dunno whats die it is.


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## dont whant to set it"' (Oct 12, 2021)

Can get 3600|1800 with four sticks( single sided ,single rank)( which I also voted in this poll) and also did achieve 4000|2000 with just 2 sticks (single sided,single rank) passing 1 hour occt a while ago on some earlier bios versions released this year .


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## Taraquin (Oct 12, 2021)

dont whant to set it' said:


> Can get 3600|1800 with four sticks( single sided ,single rank)( which I also voted in this poll) and also did achieve 4000|2000 with just 2 sticks (single sided,single rank) passing 1 hour occt a while ago on some earlier bios versions released this year .


You have a daisy chain motherboard, you will probably get much further with 2 dual rank sticks


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## Ibizadr (Oct 12, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> 1.35V should be able to boot 312 since it scales with voltage. Try the voltages I suggested and 18-22-22 with rest at auto, try 1.4V on sticks since we dunno whats die it is.


I use your recommendation pc boot enter on windows but after 5seconds bsod. What are your advice more soc voltage?


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## Taraquin (Oct 13, 2021)

Try running infinity fabric at 1800, but ram at 3200. If that works the problem is your ram which is a low end die. You may have Samsung C or E die, they might max out at 3466 or 3533.


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## dont whant to set it"' (Oct 13, 2021)

@Taraquin the ram I got listed in pc-specs is double sided and dual rank which I can't seem to get them stable above 2800|1400 on this mb ( last time I tried) , tough on bios versions from last year yes.
While these worked great on b350 and x370 chipsets at 3200|1600 and bench stable 3333|1666 @ cas 16 for both.


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## Taraquin (Oct 13, 2021)

dont whant to set it' said:


> @Taraquin the ram I got listed in pc-specs is double sided and dual rank which I can't seem to get them stable above 2800|1400 on this mb ( last time I tried) , tough on bios versions from last year yes.
> While these worked great on b350 and x370 chipsets at 3200|1600 and bench stable 3333|1666 @ cas 16 for both.


That sounds strangly low. With lastest agesa? 1.2.0.3B\C? Remember to use the A2\B2-slots  You know what die it is?


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## dont whant to set it"' (Oct 13, 2021)

My hynix'es are from 2016/2017 or thereabouts and speced jedec timings pc4-17000(2133MHz equivalent SDR) 1.2Volts.
As for the single ranks , mine are rated PC4-32000(4000MHz equivalent SDR) 1.35Volts maybe ? And made with Samsung B-dies.
Got four of each and the speeds I attained are all using 4 dimms unless otherwise specified.
Le: I am checking at least once a month on average for new bios versions and update the motherboard with these.


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## Mussels (Oct 20, 2021)

I finally bothered trying, raised SoC to 1.15V and DRAM to 1.4V (what i consider 24/7 safe values) and bam, 2000Mhz
Hynix MJR, 2x32GB 3600C18
PBO is off during this test, so 4850MHz CPU limits some results


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## ratirt (Oct 20, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I finally bothered trying, raised SoC to 1.15V and DRAM to 1.4V (what i consider 24/7 safe values) and bam, 2000Mhz
> Hynix MJR, 2x32GB 3600C18
> PBO is off during this test, so 4850MHz CPU limits some results
> 
> View attachment 221610


Damn I really need to try pushing my RAM a bit to see what I can get. 2000Mhz would have been satisfying. 
Anyone tried maxing the FlareX 3200Mhz 14CL modules?


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## Taraquin (Oct 20, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I finally bothered trying, raised SoC to 1.15V and DRAM to 1.4V (what i consider 24/7 safe values) and bam, 2000Mhz
> Hynix MJR, 2x32GB 3600C18
> PBO is off during this test, so 4850MHz CPU limits some results
> 
> View attachment 221610


Lots of potential here if you wanna tweak secondaries  Post your zentimings screenshot if you want input


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## freeagent (Oct 20, 2021)

ratirt said:


> Damn I really need to try pushing my RAM a bit to see what I can get. 2000Mhz would have been satisfying.
> Anyone tried maxing the FlareX 3200Mhz 14CL modules?


If it helps my 3200C14 has been to 4400C15, not stable but it’s been there


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## ratirt (Oct 21, 2021)

freeagent said:


> If it helps my 3200C14 has been to 4400C15, not stable but it’s been there


You are talking about the flareX modules? What is your current set-up with those memory modules if I may ask? I'm going to try to push those a bit to see what I can get. I'm sure there is still some performance left.


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## freeagent (Oct 21, 2021)

ratirt said:


> You are talking about the flareX modules? What is your current set-up with those memory modules if I may ask? I'm going to try to push those a bit to see what I can get. I'm sure there is still some performance left.


People say the only difference between them and tridents is the heatspreader. My current setup is in my sig  

I read a G.Skill rep say 3200C14 is a very good bin.. you should be ok..


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## Mussels (Oct 21, 2021)

PBO back on, this ram will not go even one setting higher, nor lower on the CAS latencies. Apparently it just likes C18.
I can kill windows services and do a billion tweaks to get the scores higher, it's just a happy stable speed.


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## freeagent (Oct 21, 2021)

Awesome man! She’s rippin


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## dont whant to set it"' (Oct 21, 2021)

I've slotted back in my dual rank hynix's and give them another try on the new firmware, though so far not quite a week since , the rig is stable for my ''tea cups''.
Well it turns out that most likely it was user error preventing me clocking these thing past 2800MT on a few bios versions ago.
It wont post trying to go for 1900MHz IF with raised VSOC tension to 1.15V , all else the same , CPB off, 47.5x cpu multi @1.3625V , 1.38V dimm , gear down mode: default/auto , manual primary timings and trfc's , vrm's @ T.probe/standard/optimized.


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## Taraquin (Oct 21, 2021)

Mussels said:


> PBO back on, this ram will not go even one setting higher, nor lower on the CAS latencies. Apparently it just likes C18.
> I can kill windows services and do a billion tweaks to get the scores higher, it's just a happy stable speed.
> 
> View attachment 221711


The 3 primaries are not that important, they mean less for speed than most people think, but going from cl20 to cl16 won`t net your more than 1-2% on fps, going from tRFC 700 to 300 would easily gain you 5%. Do some basic tweaks to trrds\l, faw, trc, twr, trtp and trfc and you can easily shave off 5-10ns of latency and boost read and copy by 3-4k


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## Mussels (Oct 21, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> The 3 primaries are not that important, they mean less for speed than most people think, but going from cl20 to cl16 won`t net your more than 1-2% on fps, going from tRFC 700 to 300 would easily gain you 5%. Do some basic tweaks to trrds\l, faw, trc, twr, trtp and trfc and you can easily shave off 5-10ns of latency and boost read and copy by 3-4k


Yeah, i have no idea where to begin with that stuff. The last time i tried lowering TRFC i got nowhere... it's a multiple of another timing, isn't it?


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## Mickey153 (Oct 22, 2021)

My 5600X can run 4000 but Whea Errors not effecting stability, but IF 1966 rock stable


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## Mussels (Oct 22, 2021)

Okay so at 4000, the system is rock stable but getting WHEA errors - LOTS of em

3800, none at all

Any ideas on how to fix those? Staying at 3800 for now, if i cant fix it i'll try timings instead


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## Mickey153 (Oct 22, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Okay so at 4000, the system is rock stable but getting WHEA errors - LOTS of em
> 
> 3800, none at all
> 
> Any ideas on how to fix those? Staying at 3800 for now, if i cant fix it i'll try timings instead


Up your VDDG IOD voltage and Vsoc keeping the IOD voltage 40mv under Vsoc voltage these voltages top out safely at vsoc 1.2 v vddg iod 1.15v, personally I had no luck at 4000 without loosening the timings, and lost speed and latency to the point that 3933 is faster, but every chip is different so you could give it a try, ps because of vdroop keep iod 50mv lower or it will run at default voltage 900


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## Taraquin (Oct 22, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Okay so at 4000, the system is rock stable but getting WHEA errors - LOTS of em
> 
> 3800, none at all
> 
> Any ideas on how to fix those? Staying at 3800 for now, if i cant fix it i'll try timings instead


A new agesa might help, certain combos of voltages might help, but if you get very many it's often hard to fix. Tried 3866 or 3933? I know 4000 sounds better 

As for timings at 3800 try 2T, gdm off, cl17, tRCDRD 21, tRP 21, tRAS 39, tRC 60, tRFC 480 (tRFC should be divideable by 8 if you have 2x8gb ram og by 16 if you have 2x16 or 4x8), tFAW 24, tRRDS 6, tRRDL 8, tWR 16, tRTP 8, tWTRS 4, tWTRL 8 or 9, SCL's 4, ProcODT 37-43 if 32gb or 28-37 if 16gb, soc volt 1.1, vddg iod 1.06, ccd 0.92, vddp 0.88. Rest on auto. Change timing one by one, boot and see if it works. If you can run this it would boost gaming by up to 10-15% vs stock. You might be able to run tighter too.


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## Mussels (Oct 22, 2021)

3866 still had errors, 3800 was WHEA free.

I guess 3800 tweaked will be where it ends up, it's odd how it can be rock solid stable but spam the errors.


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## Taraquin (Oct 22, 2021)

Mussels said:


> 3866 still had errors, 3800 was WHEA free.
> 
> I guess 3800 tweaked will be where it ends up, it's odd how it can be rock solid stable but spam the errors.


Certain CPU and most full ATX boards gets wheas above 3800. Many mATX and ITX can run 4000-4200 whea free. Why is a good question. Try the timings I suggested, change all voltages, procodt first and then go for timings one by one


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## Mussels (Oct 22, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Certain CPU and most full ATX boards gets wheas above 3800. Many mATX and ITX can run 4000-4200 whea free. Why is a good question. Try the timings I suggested, change all voltages, procodt first and then go for timings one by one


Nah, getting too much effort.


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## Taraquin (Oct 22, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Nah, getting too much effort.


I can give you basic timing-input if you want to use less time? Would still yield you 5-10% performance easily  If you keep first 4 at 18-22-22-22 set tRAS to 40, tRC to 60, tRFC to 480, keep rest at auto. But if you are satisfied then stick with what you got


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## Mussels (Oct 23, 2021)

It's more about if i spend the time and get it all working perfectly, the next AGESA update, BIOS reset or slight change in hardware means i'm probably doing it all over again and i just dont have time for that.


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## Anoniem (Oct 23, 2021)

So I have the memory settings in my sig dialed in, stable and no weird behaviour. I've had IF at 1900 for a while and have tried IF at 2000, 1967 and 1933 and all result in WHEA's clogging up the logs. After stumbling upon this post (massive thanks for the info you all!) it gave me some hope that 2000 might be possible so I flashed F35e but no dice. I set my ram at an easy 2133 with stock timings and tried 1.093 VSOC, nothing. 1933 with the same SOC voltage did boot but was incredibly unstable and caused the board to recover after 10 cycles.

What am I missing?


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## Taraquin (Oct 23, 2021)

Mussels said:


> It's more about if i spend the time and get it all working perfectly, the next AGESA update, BIOS reset or slight change in hardware means i'm probably doing it all over again and i just dont have time for that.


If you use 1T gdm and all resistances, ProcIDT etc on auto it usually works across agesas. All the settings I used on agesa 1.1.0.0 also worked fine on 1.2.0.0, 1.2.0.1, 1.2.0.2 and 1.2.0.3. The settings I suggested abive should be very safe and there is much room for improvement, but the closer you get to max the more likely it is to be unstable. Your choice if you wanna play totally safe, generally safe and easily gain 10-15% perf or risk instability and possibly gain 20%+ in certain games/apps  If you play at 1440p or 4k or 1080p with a gpu below 3060ti/3070 the gain is lower. The moment you use dlss even at 4k you get very high gains. Helped a friend of mine with crap ram and basic tuning. Going from 3200cl16 to 4000cl18 and some timings tuned fps in Cyberpunk at 4k dlss perf went from 145-155 at a certain scene to 170-180fps. With in depth tuning 200fps+ would have been possible


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## freeagent (Oct 23, 2021)

Anoniem said:


> What am I missing?


You aren't missing anything.. some can some cannot. I too have one that cannot. I get whea's at 1933 with 2 and 4 sticks. Voltage makes no difference in my case. Though I might try a higher IOD later.. but pretty sure I would be wasting my time. My 5600X starts tossing whea's at 2033. 5900X still destroys it at lower FCLK.. except in memory reads, and latency, but I think its pretty close.


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## Anoniem (Oct 25, 2021)

freeagent said:


> You aren't missing anything.. some can some cannot. I too have one that cannot. I get whea's at 1933 with 2 and 4 sticks. Voltage makes no difference in my case. Though I might try a higher IOD later.. but pretty sure I would be wasting my time. My 5600X starts tossing whea's at 2033. 5900X still destroys it at lower FCLK.. except in memory reads, and latency, but I think its pretty close.


Yeah that's sadly pretty much what I expected. Anyway, 3800/1900 and tight timings is fine too, it's just the itch. the never ending itch to get it one notch higher


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## purecain (Oct 26, 2021)

Damn my aida 64 memory benchmark is asking me to upgrade... meh...
Bit off topic but are those cheap keys online legit...???? managed to find a key.. 




@Mussels how are you getting the extra .25 multi. Is it a simple setting ive missed or have you tuned each core like we used to have to with the 1800x.





second run with less programs running in the background. Virtually the same results.


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## Mussels (Oct 27, 2021)

purecain said:


> Damn my aida 64 memory benchmark is asking me to upgrade... meh...
> Bit off topic but are those cheap keys online legit...???? managed to find a key..
> 
> View attachment 222481
> @Mussels how are you getting the extra .25 multi. Is it a simple setting ive missed or have you tuned each core like we used to have to with the 1800x.


I have PBO on +200, and have a small undervolt curve... could even be a measuring error


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## Taraquin (Oct 27, 2021)

purecain said:


> Damn my aida 64 memory benchmark is asking me to upgrade... meh...
> Bit off topic but are those cheap keys online legit...???? managed to find a key..
> 
> View attachment 222481
> ...


Post your zentimings if you want input on tweaking, can probably shave of 5-7ns latency and boost rest by 2-3k MB easily


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## Valantar (Oct 27, 2021)

Decided to start tinkering a bit with RAM speeds on my main rig yesterday, after running it at straight DOCP settings since building it. ASRock B550 Phantom Gaming ITX-AX, 2x16GB G.Skill FlareX (dual rank B-die, B1 PCB, 3200c14), 5800X.

I don't know crap about RAM OCing, so for now I've
a) tried 1usmus' DRAM calc, which failed to POST even at 3600 safe (not really that strange given that it doesn't actually support Zen3 or B550), and
b) set everything to auto except the RAM and IF speed to see how high I could go.

The latter experiment was reasonably successful, though of course the timings are utter garbage - that's the next step, trying to get my head around which timings to tweak and which numbers are bad/acceptable/good. Hit 3800/1900 @ 1.2V, 4000/2000 @ 1.35V. 4066/2033 seemed to POST successfully once (got into the BIOS), but mostly just reset to safe settings by itself. 4000/2000 booted into Windows with no issues, did not show any WHEA errors, and was stable through a quick run of the Fire Strike CPU test, which is reasonably memory intensive. Didn't bother trying higher DRAM voltages, and it seems like people are recommending auto SoC voltage for Zen3, instead adjusting LLC? That's what I did, auto voltages (except DRAM) and level 3 SoC LLC.
Obviously haven't run any benchmarks yet as there's no point at these garbage timings, but at least I know my RAM and IF can both run faster than 3200 - though I don't know if they can do so at reasonable latencies and voltages. Just to reiterate: everything below except MCLK and FCLK is auto.




Edit: damn, looking at how much I paid for this kit vs. how cheap I can get a DDR4-4000c17/c18 kit today makes me a bit sad. Nearly 33% less!


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## tabascosauz (Oct 27, 2021)

@Valantar  you can run the loose timings to gauge where your IF stops scaling but beware, I've tripped Bus/Interconnect WHEA on unstable memory timings before. I previously thought IF and DRAM stability were completely distinct from one another (thus theoretically Bus/Interconnect should have nothing to do with timings) - still mostly true, but not completely so. Granted, I was doing some stupid shit with tRFC so it was blatantly unstable in TM5 to have done so.

Give it a shot with the timings you want to be running. 3200CL14 G.skill dual rank I'd say just shoot for 4000 16-16-16-36 right away at say 1.45V. Working on tRC and tRFC can come after you nail that down, then the rest can wait till later (the rest don't have too much an impact on VDIMM, within reason).

as for VSOC not sure where that info came from but you definitely want to be on manual control to have full control over what you're setting. If you don't like the droop you see on SOC, bump up the LLC, but otherwise just leave LLC alone (I'm usually fine with 0.015-0.02V during TM5). 1.2V is reasonable for 4000, but see if you can shave it down a bit - take it easy, small steps, and leave it at each for a couple of days to see if Bus/Interconnect comes up.

If you want to work out a 4000 daily, see about dropping VDDP a bit. Not seen high VDDP (>0.95) help stability for daily configs before. IOD is whatever, do what you need to do, I did need to support IOD about that much for 4000 when testing 2000MHz on mine.

of course, I say pump the VDIMM but that's assuming you have airflow. I'm not sure what 1.35V will get you - average B-die dual rank probably falls around 3600-3800CL16 with that imo


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## Valantar (Oct 27, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> @Valantar  you can run the loose timings to gauge where your IF stops scaling but beware, I've tripped Bus/Interconnect WHEA on unstable memory timings before. I previously thought IF and DRAM stability were completely distinct from one another (thus theoretically Bus/Interconnect should have nothing to do with timings) - still mostly true, but not completely so. Granted, I was doing some stupid shit with tRFC so it was blatantly unstable in TM5 to have done so.
> 
> Give it a shot with the timings you want to be running. 3200CL14 G.skill dual rank I'd say just shoot for 4000 16-16-16-36 right away at say 1.45V. Working on tRC and tRFC can come after you nail that down, then the rest can wait till later (the rest don't have too much an impact on VDIMM, within reason).
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input  The "leave vSOC at auto" advice was from several OC guides I've skimmed (this one is the only one I still had open) - of course I have no idea of their quality, so any feedback is welcome. Btw, isn't 1.2V vSOC a bit on the high side for longevity? Thx for the guidance on other voltages though - auto settings do tend to make for some weird baseline readings, so getting some input on what is reasonable/expected stable for manual settings is great.

I'll keep the IF/memory interplay in mind for future testing - for now this has been a pretty simple "either it boots error-free or it fails to POST" scenario, but I'm sure I'll run into some grey areas soon enough.

I'm honestly not very picky in terms of what I'll end up at - I'd be equally happy with 3800 as 4000, and even 3600 would be perfectly fine as long as there's some performance increase over DOCP. I'm just looking to get this tuned better than stock, among other things because I have an inkling that this motherboard doesn't train these DIMMs all that well (I've been having some odd issues with long wake from sleep times and high DPC latency after long sleep cycles that I can't find any explanation for beyond this RAM not being on the QVL and the motherboard maybe not liking it - and ASRock support isn't helping either). We'll see how it plays out.

I'll have a look at tuning this a bit tonight or tomorrow


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## Taraquin (Oct 27, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Decided to start tinkering a bit with RAM speeds on my main rig yesterday, after running it at straight DOCP settings since building it. ASRock B550 Phantom Gaming ITX-AX, 2x16GB G.Skill FlareX (dual rank B-die, B1 PCB, 3200c14), 5800X.
> 
> I don't know crap about RAM OCing, so for now I've
> a) tried 1usmus' DRAM calc, which failed to POST even at 3600 safe (not really that strange given that it doesn't actually support Zen3 or B550), and
> ...


If you wanna stay at 1.35V try the following: 18 18 18 18 36 54, tRFC 320, tCWL 18 tWR 18, tRTP 9, tRRDS 4, tRRDL 6, tFAW 16, twtrs 4, twtrl 12, scl 4, set vddp volt to 900, addrcmddrvstr 20. You may need a bit more volt on ram, maybe 1.38V.

If you want to unleashe more performance try 1.4-1.45V ramvolt, disable gdm, set 2T, 17 17 17 17 34 51 tRFC 304, tCWL 16, WR 16, tRTP 8.


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## Valantar (Oct 27, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> If you wanna stay at 1.35V try the following: 18 18 18 18 36 54, tRFC 320, tCWL 18 tWR 18, tRTP 9, tRRDS 4, tRRDL 6, tFAW 16, twtrs 4, twtrl 12, scl 4, set vddp volt to 900, addrcmddrvstr 20. You may need a bit more volt on ram, maybe 1.38V.
> 
> If you want to unleashe more performance try 1.4-1.45V ramvolt, disable gdm, set 2T, 17 17 17 17 34 51 tRFC 304, tCWL 16, WR 16, tRTP 8.


Thanks, I might give that a try 



Taraquin said:


> If you wanna stay at 1.35V try the following: 18 18 18 18 36 54, tRFC 320, tCWL 18 tWR 18, tRTP 9, tRRDS 4, tRRDL 6, tFAW 16, twtrs 4, twtrl 12, scl 4, set vddp volt to 900, addrcmddrvstr 20. You may need a bit more volt on ram, maybe 1.38V.
> 
> If you want to unleashe more performance try 1.4-1.45V ramvolt, disable gdm, set 2T, 17 17 17 17 34 51 tRFC 304, tCWL 16, WR 16, tRTP 8.


Well, that was simple enough.


----------



## purecain (Oct 27, 2021)

My Zen timings, definitely interested in what the community thinks about improving these settings. TY


----------



## Valantar (Oct 27, 2021)

Did a quick performance test, and the bump from DOCP 3200c14/1600 to 4000c18/2000 netted me a ~800 point/6.8% increase in the Time Spy CPU benchmark (for reference, the 4000c28 run yesterday delivered the same performance or a very tiny regression). Not bad for a couple of minutes of tweaking!


----------



## Taraquin (Oct 27, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Thanks, I might give that a try
> 
> 
> Well, that was simple enough.
> View attachment 222627


Forgot that gdm makes rtp even. Try tWR 16, tRTP 8 



Valantar said:


> Did a quick performance test, and the bump from DOCP 3200c14/1600 to 4000c18/2000 netted me a ~800 point/6.8% increase in the Time Spy CPU benchmark (for reference, the 4000c28 run yesterday delivered the same performance or a very tiny regression). Not bad for a couple of minutes of tweaking!


Try the cl17 suggestion, I bet you can get another 2% there 



purecain said:


> My Zen timings, definitely interested in what the community thinks about improving these settings. TY
> View attachment 222628


Set ram volt to 1.45V, try 14 14 14 14 28 42, trrds 4, trrdl 6, tfaw 16, twr 12, trtp 6, tRFC 256, twtrs 4, twtrl 8, tcwl 14, scls 4, rest auto. 

If you can run 3800/1900 we can go further


----------



## Valantar (Oct 27, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Forgot that gdm makes rtp even. Try tWR 16, tRTP 8
> 
> 
> Try the cl17 suggestion, I bet you can get another 2% there
> ...


Does GDM make CL even as well? CL17 was set to 18 on boot. Otherwise it booted fine at 1.38V. +100 points on TS CPU, so no major change there. Edit: or, well, it's another 1.1%, so not nothing I guess


----------



## Taraquin (Oct 27, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Does GDM make CL even as well? CL17 was set to 18 on boot. Otherwise it booted fine at 1.38V. +100 points on TS CPU, so no major change there. Edit: or, well, it's another 1.1%, so not nothing I guess
> 
> View attachment 222635


Yeah, gdm makes cl, cwl, wr and rtp even. Try 2T and turn off gdm, it is slightly faster but can possibly be a bit more unstable.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 27, 2021)

I like how you lot all have your favourite timings, like TRFC under a thousand 






Just that reminder that not everyone has samsung B-die, and these different timings and voltages can easily lead to fruit loops


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 27, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I like how you lot all have your favourite timings, like TRFC under a thousand
> 
> Just that reminder that not everyone has samsung B-die, and these different timings and voltages can easily lead to fruit loops



Not having B-die doesn't mean there's no room for improvement......they can't do the same primaries and secondaries but lots of ICs can cut down on tRC, tRFC, tRTP etc. for a very real improvement. Not even MJR should have to be saddled with 550ns tRFC...unless you got impossibly unlucky with silicon quality or freak compatibility issues.


----------



## Valantar (Oct 27, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I like how you lot all have your favourite timings, like TRFC under a thousand
> 
> View attachment 222648
> 
> ...


Is that a 2*32GB kit? I'm frankly impressed that it runs at 3800 at all. I consciously went for one of the few DR B-die 2*16GB kits I could find at a reasonable price, choosing a low spec (3200c14) for that rather than gambling on some other die at something like 3600. Apparently it worked out well for me!


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (Oct 27, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Is that a 2*32GB kit? I'm frankly impressed that it runs at 3800 at all. I consciously went for one of the few DR B-die 2*16GB kits I could find at a reasonable price, choosing a low spec (3200c14) for that rather than gambling on some other die at something like 3600. Apparently it worked out well for me!



Sounds like it turned out well!

I'm going to give these settings a try this evening.  I have the same RAM as you, but in a 4*8GB kit.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 27, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Is that a 2*32GB kit? I'm frankly impressed that it runs at 3800 at all. I consciously went for one of the few DR B-die 2*16GB kits I could find at a reasonable price, choosing a low spec (3200c14) for that rather than gambling on some other die at something like 3600. Apparently it worked out well for me!



Have you got around to testing yet? Might be worth it to run a quick _sfc /scannow_ and _DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth_ before you start, get a clean slate assuming CO is stable.


----------



## Pictus (Oct 28, 2021)

I do not like to be in the bleeding edge.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 28, 2021)

I like that chart!  Looks like it could come in handy..


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 28, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I like that chart!  Looks like it could come in handy..



The Reous tRFC chart is a great resource. Just take it as a general range recommendation to start for tRFC. Obviously it doesn't go low enough for B-die, but at that point you don't need the chart


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 28, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I cant go beyond 1866, but i dont know if my RAM is the issue.


I can't go above 1600, but my 4 dual rank sticks of Samsung C-die are certainly my issue.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 28, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Is that a 2*32GB kit? I'm frankly impressed that it runs at 3800 at all. I consciously went for one of the few DR B-die 2*16GB kits I could find at a reasonable price, choosing a low spec (3200c14) for that rather than gambling on some other die at something like 3600. Apparently it worked out well for me!


Yeah, 2x32GB

It runs 4000 fine as well, it's my IF that cant keep up


----------



## Taraquin (Oct 28, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I like how you lot all have your favourite timings, like TRFC under a thousand
> 
> View attachment 222648
> 
> ...


Didn't you have Hynix DJR? An avg DJR kit can do 460 at 4000 or 429 at 3733. Depending on bin, anything from 400 to 480 at 3733 should be doable


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 28, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Didn't you have Hynix DJR? An avg DJR kit can do 460 at 4000 or 429 at 3733. Depending on bin, anything from 400 to 480 at 3733 should be doable



2x32GB can't be DJR?  Can't get 32GB density out of a 8Gb IC. MJR is 16Gb.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 28, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Didn't you have Hynix DJR? An avg DJR kit can do 460 at 4000 or 429 at 3733. Depending on bin, anything from 400 to 480 at 3733 should be doable


2x32GB MJR (i have to run thaiphoon any time someone asks, i can never remember)


----------



## Taraquin (Oct 28, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> 2x32GB can't be DJR?  Can't get 32GB density out of a 8Gb IC. MJR is 16Gb.


Ah, sorry, didn't remember specs of DJR  Most experienced on B-die and rev E.


----------



## Valantar (Oct 28, 2021)

Mussels said:


> 2x32GB MJR (i have to run thaiphoon any time someone asks, i can never remember)


So according to the table it should do ~665 tRFC?


----------



## Taraquin (Oct 28, 2021)

Mussels said:


> 2x32GB MJR (i have to run thaiphoon any time someone asks, i can never remember)


Ah, okay, the anywhere from 640 to 690 should be doable on 3800. Lowering from over 1000 can give high gains. The major difference between Samsung B-die and all other ram is the ability to run low tRFC, which is the timing that usually impacts gamingperformance the most. B-die can also run tRCDRD and tRC lower, but not by a huge amount and they don't impact gaming that much.

This is how much tRFC do to gaming:



The bottom Tridentkit runs tRFC at 560, the 2 others 416. Lowering tRFC by 144 increases fps by 5.8%/19.5% min. Going from 16 18 18 36 to 14 14 14 34 only increase fps by 2.7%, but affects mins quite much.

My rev E could run tRFC at 528 at 3733 (good bin), my B-die can do 254. In certain games this could give performancegains of almost 10%, but the rev E compensated somewhat since it could run tRP, tWTRS and tWTRL lower than B-die. Actual performancedifference is around 5-6% when max-tuned.



Pictus said:


> I do not like to be in the bleeding edge.


Is that your highest stable/bootable IF? Micron rev E or B ram? tWR equal to tCL and tRTP half of tWR should work and improve performance  tRFC 560 might be doable, maybe lower, my rev E can do 522 at 3733.


----------



## Valantar (Oct 28, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Have you got around to testing yet? Might be worth it to run a quick _sfc /scannow_ and _DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth_ before you start, get a clean slate assuming CO is stable.


Any recommendations for stability testing? sfc /scannow returned two corrupted files (both links to the Onedrive app, which ... okay?), all fixed. Nothing from DISM. Haven't used the PC much since I tuned things yesterday, but it did fine through some online gaming (Rocket League, in my experience can show memory instability as network errors/latency variation/connectivity issues when playing), plus it woke up from sleep this morning record fast. Still at zero WHEA errors, and everything seems to work fine.

Also, question: I set my vSOC to 1.2V, it's reading as 1,169V stable/peak with drops to 1,156V in HWinfo64. Am I right in thinking this is safe long term? And should I still try stepping it down some?



Taraquin said:


> Yeah, gdm makes cl, cwl, wr and rtp even. Try 2T and turn off gdm, it is slightly faster but can possibly be a bit more unstable.


Welp, that did something. 12172 TS CPU score, that's another +300 points! Currently up 10.7% from my baseline score (10991). Not bad! No WHEA errors, but obviously need stability testing. Should I aim for lowering my tRFC towards the timings from the table (~280)?


----------



## Taraquin (Oct 28, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Any recommendations for stability testing? sfc /scannow returned two corrupted files (both links to the Onedrive app, which ... okay?), all fixed. Nothing from DISM. Haven't used the PC much since I tuned things yesterday, but it did fine through some online gaming (Rocket League, in my experience can show memory instability as network errors/latency variation/connectivity issues when playing), plus it woke up from sleep this morning record fast. Still at zero WHEA errors, and everything seems to work fine.
> 
> Also, question: I set my vSOC to 1.2V, it's reading as 1,169V stable/peak with drops to 1,156V in HWinfo64. Am I right in thinking this is safe long term? And should I still try stepping it down some?


Download TestMem5 and run it with the usmus config for 20 rounds. Karhu also works, but costs about 10usd. Too low tRFC can sometimes lead to file corruption, but yours isn`t that low.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 28, 2021)

Valantar said:


> So according to the table it should do ~665 tRFC?


Sigh, lets see if i can corrupt my BIOS again...
Hail Satan TRFC


----------



## Taraquin (Oct 28, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Any recommendations for stability testing? sfc /scannow returned two corrupted files (both links to the Onedrive app, which ... okay?), all fixed. Nothing from DISM. Haven't used the PC much since I tuned things yesterday, but it did fine through some online gaming (Rocket League, in my experience can show memory instability as network errors/latency variation/connectivity issues when playing), plus it woke up from sleep this morning record fast. Still at zero WHEA errors, and everything seems to work fine.
> 
> Also, question: I set my vSOC to 1.2V, it's reading as 1,169V stable/peak with drops to 1,156V in HWinfo64. Am I right in thinking this is safe long term? And should I still try stepping it down some?
> 
> ...


If you are still at 1.35V then don`t go lower on tRFC. It scales with voltage. At 1.4V it can typically do 150ns\300 tRFC at 4000 and at 1.5V it can do 136ns\272 TRFC. If you are at 1.35V and 320 that is 160ns which is about the best you can do at 1.35V. You can try 304 if you set volt to 1.4V and 288 if you set it to 1.45V. tRFC should be lowered by 16 ticks on dual rank and 8 ticks on single rank. My single rank kit is medicore and I need 1.46V to do 280.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 28, 2021)

666 was a fail, trying 690


690 posted. First suggestion so far to get that far.

Basic stability says yay


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 28, 2021)

@Valantar I do HCI first. I did buy a HCI Pro key for $5 though, so I don't have to open a billion instances (each "instance" is limited to like 3GB). The functionality is the same just that the Pro version handles all that so you can manage everything in one place.

For HCI, 100% coverage no errors is good enough to keep testing, 600% is good enough for me to do my daily work on during the day, and I test overnight till 2000-3000% for final stability.

If that passes, I move onto TM5 with anta777 Extreme1 config. It has a MT.cfg file in its folder that determines the config - should be a page on OCN with all the popular configs in one zip (there's 1usmusv3 and a variety of other anta configs), just rename your choice to MT.cfg to replace the default, then delete cfg.link (or something like that) in the same folder, before running TM5 as admin. If I already tested HCI before, I'll just run 3 back to back runs of TM5.

If that passes, I'll run a bit of LinpackXtreme. iirc it's either the bench or stress option @ either 8GB or 10GB I think. At that point I'd call that daily stable.

For all of these I disable internet and close everything except HWInfo on the second monitor, to keep tabs on DIMM temps.

Since you are pushing IF to the limit, it might be worth running some other benches at the end like P95 Large FFT or OCCT, but honestly imo LinX is plenty good, and any Bus/Interconnect WHEAs will make themselves known to you in due time with normal use.

Basically, while both get the RAM equally warm:

HCI: appears to be the less stressful bench that is slightly lighter on CPU, but has a knack for finding sporadic errors way down the line (1000-2000%) that slip through shorter tests
TM5: more demanding test, generally faster at finding errors, but annoying to have to restart so not for overnighting


----------



## Taraquin (Oct 28, 2021)

Mussels said:


> 666 was a fail, trying 690
> 
> 
> 690 posted. First suggestion so far to get that far.
> ...


As you see 3800 with 690 tRFC is superior to 4000 1000+ tRFC. 4000 is generally 2ns faster than 3800 on same timings so just lowering tRFC by 300+ lowered latency by 5ns  as for tRFC try 688 or 672, it's better than 690 due to time intervals. Dual rank kits should do increments in 16 ticks and numbers divideable by 16  as said, tRFC is most impactful on performance, the next in line are CL, RCDRD, RP, TRRD/FAW, WR/RTP, but if you are satisfied now I understand


----------



## Mussels (Oct 28, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> As you see 3800 with 690 tRFC is superior to 4000 1000+ tRFC. 4000 is generally 2ns faster than 3800 on same timings so just lowering tRFC by 300+ lowered latency by 5ns  as for tRFC try 688 or 672, it's better than 690 due to time intervals. Dual rank kits should do increments in 16 ticks and numbers divideable by 16  as said, tRFC is most impactful on performance, the next in line are CL, RCDRD, RP, TRRD/FAW, WR/RTP, but if you are satisfied now I understand


I'll try those

Prior to these numbers everyone always said numbers well under 500 and they had zero chance of working on this RAM

672: no post, the usual frozen and no recovering
688:






You know your RAM - and thank you, getting sub 60ns is huge for 2x32GB

TRFC was an outlier on this RAM with a crazy high value, but as i just demonstrated it always wants values far higher than people expect, it's so unstable it wont even POST (not even the automatic failed overclock stuff)

Last thing i need is to spend a lot of effort tuning it in, only to forget the settings, lose them, or have one small change make it all incompatible


----------



## Taraquin (Oct 28, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I'll try those
> 
> Prior to these numbers everyone always said numbers well under 500 and they had zero chance of working on this RAM
> 
> ...


As you see even minor changes can have a major impact. Your ram is the worst performer on tRFC of all dies so no wonder most people think you can do tighter tRFC since all other dies can 

If 688 turns out to be unstable I'm 99% sure 704 will be stable.


----------



## Valantar (Oct 28, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> @Valantar I do HCI first. I did buy a HCI Pro key for $5 though, so I don't have to open a billion instances (each "instance" is limited to like 3GB). The functionality is the same just that the Pro version handles all that so you can manage everything in one place.
> 
> For HCI, 100% coverage no errors is good enough to keep testing, 600% is good enough for me to do my daily work on during the day, and I test overnight till 2000-3000% for final stability.
> 
> ...


Wow, that's quite the procedure. I know memory stability testing is time consuming, but that sounds like a 4-5-day procedure. I'll give it a try though. It seems like HCI has made Memtest "pay what you want", as the free version defaults to "All unused RAM" and there's a Flattr link to pay anything from $3-50 for it - but I tried paying and it just doesn't work, so ... I'll see how I fare with the free version. For now, I'm using the system as normal, we'll see where that gets me. At least I did a system image backup a couple of days ago 


Oh, and here's an interesting observation: According to HWinfo64, my RAM after tuning runs 4-5 degrees cooler than previously. I've always thought it ran a bit warm, typically in the mid-40s. There isn't that much airflow in my case, especially at idle as only one fan is running then, it's densely packed, and the only fans blowing anywhere near the RAM is the top radiator fan that's off at idle. Yet now one DIMM is sitting at 41.6° and the other at 42.3°, with that fan off, and the bottom radiator fan at 900rpm. So, by increasing the RAM voltage from 1.35V to 1.38V, increasing clocks from 3200 to 4000, and tuning the timings much more tightly than before, all of a sudden I've _reduced_ the RAM power draw? I guess I'll see how it behaves under load, but either way this is pretty nice.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 28, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Wow, that's quite the procedure. I know memory stability testing is time consuming, but that sounds like a 4-5-day procedure. I'll give it a try though. It seems like HCI has made Memtest "pay what you want", as the free version defaults to "All unused RAM" and there's a Flattr link to pay anything from $3-50 for it - but I tried paying and it just doesn't work, so ... I'll see how I fare with the free version. For now, I'm using the system as normal, we'll see where that gets me. At least I did a system image backup a couple of days ago
> 
> Oh, and here's an interesting observation: According to HWinfo64, my RAM after tuning runs 4-5 degrees cooler than previously. I've always thought it ran a bit warm, typically in the mid-40s. There isn't that much airflow in my case, especially at idle as only one fan is running then, it's densely packed, and the only fans blowing anywhere near the RAM is the top radiator fan that's off at idle. Yet now one DIMM is sitting at 41.6° and the other at 42.3°, with that fan off, and the bottom radiator fan at 900rpm. So, by increasing the RAM voltage from 1.35V to 1.38V, increasing clocks from 3200 to 4000, and tuning the timings much more tightly than before, all of a sudden I've _reduced_ the RAM power draw? I guess I'll see how it behaves under load, but either way this is pretty nice.



It doesn't take that long even if you're exhaustive about it. Normally if you can make it to like 700% in HCI, OCers already consider that daily stable. Or a single overnight pass in HCI if you're extra careful. I've just had some negative experiences with CJR where instability hides out till the 4th TM5 run or into the 2000% range in HCI, so I do more. 700% HCI is done after like 2 hours on dual rank, TM5 about 2 hours per run on dual rank.

With free HCI just make sure you open enough instances. Each is limited to about 3GB so set it so that all your RAM is used save for about 500MB to 1GB remaining physical free memory in HWInfo. Same for HCI Pro, you gotta specify usage and CPU threads. TM5 you don't need to worry about that, but you do need to cone back and restart it, so it's not an overnight tool.

Is 41C in game? If that's idle then it's a bit warm, dunno if you'll make it thru a memtest. The only number that matters is your max logged temp during HCI or TM5, at 1.52V I'm at roughly 47.5C. At idle I'm sitting at about 33C, in games it tops out at 38-42C.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 28, 2021)

x


Taraquin said:


> As you see even minor changes can have a major impact. Your ram is the worst performer on tRFC of all dies so no wonder most people think you can do tighter tRFC since all other dies can
> 
> If 688 turns out to be unstable I'm 99% sure 704 will be stable.


688 did just give me some fun bsods, trying 704


----------



## Taraquin (Oct 29, 2021)

Mussels said:


> x
> 
> 688 did just give me some fun bsods, trying 704


Since you have 32gb sticks, I actually wonder if you should use 32 as ticks multiplier, 704 should be best then


----------



## Mussels (Oct 29, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Since you have 32gb sticks, I actually wonder if you should use 32 as ticks multiplier, 704 should be best then


beyond me, but kinda makes sense - 704 has been stable all day.
I suppose keep that knowledge tucked away, as 32GB sticks are gunna become more common


----------



## Valantar (Oct 29, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Is 41C in game? If that's idle then it's a bit warm, dunno if you'll make it thru a memtest. The only number that matters is your max logged temp during HCI or TM5, at 1.52V I'm at roughly 47.5C. At idle I'm sitting at about 33C, in games it tops out at 38-42C.


Yep, it's idle, and I've seen mid-40s after long-term desktop use - but as I said, this is with near zero airflow in a densely packed case:




But good news! This finally got me off my butt and made me install the J-Hack M2426 unit (read: 24-to-6, as in reducing the 24-pin cable to just 6), which definitely opens up some room for airflow around the RAM (and in the bottom of the case too).




That's quite the reduction in cable clutter!

From the couple of minutes I've had the system running, if anything it seems to increase idle RAM temperatures - which kind of makes sense, as the warm air off the radiator can rise up past the RAM more easily now. Still, it should make for much better cooling under load. And if that's not enough I could always stick a slim 92mm fan in there (I've got a free header on the Quadro) and set it to turn on if the RAM exceeds something like 47 degrees. That ought to do the trick. But for now, I'll run some stability tests today and see where I end up.


----------



## Pictus (Oct 29, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> My rev E could run tRFC at 528 at 3733 (good bin), my B-die can do 254. In certain games this could give performancegains of almost 10%, but the rev E compensated somewhat since it could run tRP, tWTRS and tWTRL lower than B-die. Actual performancedifference is around 5-6% when max-tuned.
> 
> 
> Is that your highest stable/bootable IF? Micron rev E or B ram? tWR equal to tCL and tRTP half of tWR should work and improve performance  tRFC 560 might be doable, maybe lower, my rev E can do 522 at 3733.



Micron rev E, not the max bootable, but I do not want to use higher DRAM voltages.


----------



## Valantar (Oct 31, 2021)

Well that's disappointing. Especially after >600% memtest and two runs of TM5 anta777 with no errors whatsoever. Looking at the event log it seems to have been while gaming yesterday. Guess I'll either have to bump some voltages or drop a bit below 4000/2000.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 31, 2021)

Valantar said:


> View attachment 223081
> Well that's disappointing. Especially after >600% memtest and two runs of TM5 anta777 with no errors whatsoever. Looking at the event log it seems to have been while gaming yesterday. Guess I'll either have to bump some voltages or drop a bit below 4000/2000.



Bus/Interconnect _can _surface in TM5 and HCI (seen it only once in TM5) but they aren't meant to test for it directly. Can try Prime95 Large FFT, LinpackXtreme, not sure if OCCT has a dedicated test, there was another alleged dedicated IF tester script somewhere on OCN randomx is the name...........but daily IF stability is best tested through long-term daily use. 38 errors is quite a bit.

Send a zentimings screenie? Let's see those volts.

First time I've seen that kind of relatively slow accumulation, actually. It seems to either be stable (0), almost stable (1-2 after a day), or very unstable (1 every other second):


----------



## Valantar (Oct 31, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Bus/Interconnect _can _surface in TM5 and HCI (seen it only once in TM5) but they aren't meant to test for it directly. Can try Prime95 Large FFT, LinpackXtreme, not sure if OCCT has a dedicated test, there was another alleged dedicated IF tester script somewhere on OCN randomx is the name...........but daily IF stability is best tested through long-term daily use. 38 errors is quite a bit.
> 
> Send a zentimings screenie? Let's see those volts.
> 
> ...


Seems to be only when gaming (across two different games yesterday), and relatively intermittent:



It's also clearly limited to the times I was playing games. Guess it's somehow related to stressing the PCIe link? Looking at the event viewer, it seems like there were some errors on the 28th as well that I apparently didn't spot. Not many though, similar to this.

Zentimings:


----------



## Taraquin (Oct 31, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Seems to be only when gaming (across two different games yesterday), and relatively intermittent:
> View attachment 223090
> It's also clearly limited to the times I was playing games. Guess it's somehow related to stressing the PCIe link? Looking at the event viewer, it seems like there were some errors on the 28th as well that I apparently didn't spot. Not many though, similar to this.
> 
> ...


Going higher on voltages probably won' t fix this. You should try 3933/1966, 3866/1933 or 3800/1900, that is the only viable fix :/ Usually 5600X/5800X and ITX/mATX with 2 dimms has the highest chance of hitting 4000/2000+ without whea 19, but sometimes they don't.

3800/1900 usually work, and you can tighten timings then so performance could be close to 4000cl17. You can also lower voltages and then clockspeeds will improves since IO-die uses less power.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 31, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> 3800/1900 usually work, and you can tighten timings then so performance could be close to 4000cl17. You can also lower voltages and then clockspeeds will improves since IO-die uses less power.


Oh yeah i should look into that, ye olde 5800x loves its nice high temps


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 31, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Oh yeah i should look into that, ye olde 5800x loves its nice high temps



IO die really doesn't make any heat at all to affect your temps. If anything it's the opposite, the less IOD draws, the more out of PPT can go to the CCD, so the cores run faster and draw more power and run hotter.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 31, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> IO die really doesn't make any heat at all to affect your temps. If anything it's the opposite, the less IOD draws, the more out of PPT can go to the CCD, so the cores run faster and draw more power and run hotter.


9V iod, got it


----------



## Taraquin (Oct 31, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> IO die really doesn't make any heat at all to affect your temps. If anything it's the opposite, the less IOD draws, the more out of PPT can go to the CCD, so the cores run faster and draw more power and run hotter.


At 3800cl15 tuned IO uses 19W, at 4000cl16 it uses 21W on my setup.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 1, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> At 3800cl15 tuned IO uses 19W, at 4000cl16 it uses 21W on my setup.



Yes I agreed with you lol, only corrected the misconception that it's to do with improving temps

Though the power reduction really is only significant if one is able to reduce quite a bit of VSOC (~0.1V). 14-15W @ 3600 vs 16-18W @ 3800, but VSOC is also 1.03V vs 1.125V. Is that 19W when you're hammering the IF (TM5) or just idle? If it's the latter it seems kinda high for 1CCD, but I also don't know your VSOC


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## Mussels (Nov 1, 2021)

Even moving 1W across could help for people chasing benchmark scores, so it was a good reminder

Later tonight i'm using the derbauer offset and liquid metal, i doubt it'll help my IF clocking but it better damn well help those temps


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## Taraquin (Nov 1, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Yes I agreed with you lol, only corrected the misconception that it's to do with improving temps
> 
> Though the power reduction really is only significant if one is able to reduce quite a bit of VSOC (~0.1V). 14-15W @ 3600 vs 16-18W @ 3800, but VSOC is also 1.03V vs 1.125V. Is that 19W when you're hammering the IF (TM5) or just idle? If it's the latter it seems kinda high for 1CCD, but I also don't know your VSOC


2W in CB23/games, a bit more in TM5, don't remember exact, 1W more in idle, total pack pwr idle is 18-25W, IO die uses less than half  The sole difference is from 0.04V higher SOC and IOD  volt.


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## Mussels (Nov 1, 2021)

Somehow i'm stable at -20 all core as well, which never used to work
Back when i tested previously i had the joys of melting PCI-E cables throw all my testing out the window

I know this isn't an overclocking thread specifically, but why does this suddenly work so well?
Is it the RAM tuning or the SoC voltage that's made this more stable?

tried -30... so far so good???


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## Taraquin (Nov 1, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Somehow i'm stable at -20 all core as well, which never used to work
> Back when i tested previously i had the joys of melting PCI-E cables throw all my testing out the window
> 
> I know this isn't an overclocking thread specifically, but why does this suddenly work so well?
> ...


Changed bios since last time you tried? Ram tuning shouldn't matter much, but it can possibly improve multi core stability due to IO die using more power and then stealing a bit from core budget. Try corecycler, if it passes 2 6 mins runs on each core you are 99% stable.

As for curve optimizer and performance: If you can run allcore -30 stable that gives me about 250-300MHz more on my 5600X. On your 5800X I bet you get 200-250MHz, translating to 3-4% perf in CB23. If you run PBO+200 aswell -30 will probably be difficult, but that can boost fps in games by 3-5%. In SOTTR +200 PBO and - 30x4 - 29x2 (highest UV I can do) gave me 5% higher fps vs stock. 

Still ram tweaking is the major boost that gave me 15-20% in some games. 

CO+PBO is generally easier to stabilize at max settings, ram at max settings takes a lot of time.


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## Mussels (Nov 1, 2021)

-30 crashed at idle, but even a single core running in a tester kept it going
-20 is rock solid

This is with +200, so it's genuinely impressive... could the higher SoC voltage i used for 3800/1900 (and the 4000/2000 test) be related somehow?


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## Taraquin (Nov 1, 2021)

Mussels said:


> -30 crashed at idle, but even a single core running in a tester kept it going
> -20 is rock solid
> 
> This is with +200, so it's genuinely impressive... could the higher SoC voltage i used for 3800/1900 (and the 4000/2000 test) be related somehow?


As I said it can improve stability at all core oc due to IO die using more with higher soc volt. Tried corecycler? Maybe all cores except 1 can run - 30.


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## Valantar (Nov 3, 2021)

Mussels said:


> -30 crashed at idle, but even a single core running in a tester kept it going
> -20 is rock solid
> 
> This is with +200, so it's genuinely impressive... could the higher SoC voltage i used for 3800/1900 (and the 4000/2000 test) be related somehow?


My experience with CO is that you can't trust stability until you've used it for a pretty decent amount of time. At least in my case, -30 all core _seemed_ stable but gave random crashes at idle or in games (or waking from sleep IIRC) after a few days of normal usage. -20 was the same, but even longer between crashes. -10 has been rock solid for months.

Still, your chip seems pretty good - I haven't made much of an attempt at pushing things beyond entering a few numbers, but I've had stability issues above +100 PBO, so even preliminary stability at +200 sounds really good. Fingers crossed your current settings stay working!

On that note, I should probably look into figuring out how to tune CO per core, as the seeming stability at -30 seem to indicate that most of my cores should be able to handle it.


Taraquin said:


> Going higher on voltages probably won' t fix this. You should try 3933/1966, 3866/1933 or 3800/1900, that is the only viable fix :/ Usually 5600X/5800X and ITX/mATX with 2 dimms has the highest chance of hitting 4000/2000+ without whea 19, but sometimes they don't.
> 
> 3800/1900 usually work, and you can tighten timings then so performance could be close to 4000cl17. You can also lower voltages and then clockspeeds will improves since IO-die uses less power.


Neither 3933 or 3866 were error-free, sadly. If anything, I saw more errors at those speeds than 4000, but that's probably just random. 3800/1900 is error-free so far though, including gaming, where I saw consistent errors before. Any tips on tightening up timings?


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## Taraquin (Nov 3, 2021)

Valantar said:


> My experience with CO is that you can't trust stability until you've used it for a pretty decent amount of time. At least in my case, -30 all core _seemed_ stable but gave random crashes at idle or in games (or waking from sleep IIRC) after a few days of normal usage. -20 was the same, but even longer between crashes. -10 has been rock solid for months.
> 
> Still, your chip seems pretty good - I haven't made much of an attempt at pushing things beyond entering a few numbers, but I've had stability issues above +100 PBO, so even preliminary stability at +200 sounds really good. Fingers crossed your current settings stay working!
> 
> ...


Check event viewer if you get random crashes with CO, it will identify the unstable core. Use core cycler to find 99% of the stability. Probably several cores can do - 30, on might only do - 10.

Timings: Still at 1.4V? 16 16 16 16 32 48, tRFC 288, twrl 10, 9 or 8. The rest can stay the same. Reduce SOC volt to 1.1v, iod to 1.06v, vddp 0.88 and ccd 0.92.


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## Valantar (Nov 3, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Check event viewer if you get random crashes with CO, it will identify the unstable core. Use core cycler to find 99% of the stability. Probably several cores can do - 30, on might only do - 10.
> 
> Timings: Still at 1.4V? 16 16 16 16 32 48, tRFC 288, twrl 10, 9 or 8. The rest can stay the same. Reduce SOC volt to 1.1v, iod to 1.06v, vddp 0.88 and ccd 0.92.


Thanks! I'll give that a try later today. Sadly it's been too long since I was experimenting with CO, I sincerely doubt I'll be able to find those error logs now  Still, good to know a method of identifying the core causing the crash


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## Taraquin (Nov 3, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Thanks! I'll give that a try later today. Sadly it's been too long since I was experimenting with CO, I sincerely doubt I'll be able to find those error logs now  Still, good to know a method of identifying the core causing the crash


I first set -30 and +200 pbo. I got random reboots in idle once a day. I ran corecycler and it found CPU 1 to fail after 4 mins. I set core 1 to -29 and had no problem since. Once a week I got random reboot. Check eventviewer and found whea 18 on core 0. I set it to -29 aswell and now it has been stable for a month. If you run core cycler and get instant fail you must lower more, fail after a few minutes usually means only 1-2 lower to stabilize. If you manage to stabilize all at best setting all at -30 and +200 pbo gives you up to 250-300MHz better allcore on 5600X and 200-250MHz on 5800X, this translates to 5-6% perf on 5600X and 4-5% on 5800X.


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 5, 2021)

Hey @Taraquin, @Mussels directed me to you for your expertise on ram timings for my current system. attached is a screenshot from zentimings and also taiphoon burner.
System is as follows.
CPU: 5800x 
Board: x570 aorus master.
ram: G skill trident z neo 2 x16gb. Hynix DJR 3600 CL16.
I have in the past successfully gotten it to 3800 but i recently lost all my profiles from my bios.
Thanks in advance


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## Taraquin (Nov 5, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> Hey @Taraquin, @Mussels directed me to you for your expertise on ram timings for my current system. attached is a screenshot from zentimings and also taiphoon burner.
> System is as follows.
> CPU: 5800x
> Board: x570 aorus master.
> ...


For 3800/1900 try 16 20 20 20, 36, 56, trrds/l 4/6, tfaw 16, twr 16, trtp 8, trfc 480, scls 4, wtrs 4, wtrl 8 if possible, but you may need 9 or 10, rdwr 10, wrrd 3, rest on auto. Set soc voltage to 1.12v, iod volt 1.04v, ccd 0.92, vddp 0.88, cad 24 20 24 24. Let me know if it does not work


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## Valantar (Nov 5, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Check event viewer if you get random crashes with CO, it will identify the unstable core. Use core cycler to find 99% of the stability. Probably several cores can do - 30, on might only do - 10.
> 
> Timings: Still at 1.4V? 16 16 16 16 32 48, tRFC 288, twrl 10, 9 or 8. The rest can stay the same. Reduce SOC volt to 1.1v, iod to 1.06v, vddp 0.88 and ccd 0.92.


Haven't had much time for testing, but so far these settings seem to work just fine (I'm at 1.38V btw, not 1.4). Any tips for further tightening? Seems like these DIMMs do pretty well, though I'm not looking to ride the bleeding edge of stability here, so if it's unlikely I'll get lower I might just leave it. I'll look into some CO testing to identify my less stable cores whenever I find the time


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## Taraquin (Nov 5, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Haven't had much time for testing, but so far these settings seem to work just fine (I'm at 1.38V btw, not 1.4). Any tips for further tightening? Seems like these DIMMs do pretty well, though I'm not looking to ride the bleeding edge of stability here, so if it's unlikely I'll get lower I might just leave it. I'll look into some CO testing to identify my less stable cores whenever I find the time


You must increase voltage to improve timings. You are on the limit already. If you try 1.45V which is considered safe on B-die there is lots of room for improvement


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## Valantar (Nov 5, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> You must increase voltage to improve timings. You are on the limit already. If you try 1.45V which is considered safe on B-die there is lots of room for improvement


Oh I know, I just meant to indicate that given that I'm still on 1.38 I thought there ought to be more headroom. Do you think I have any chance of reaching 3800c14?


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## tabascosauz (Nov 5, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Oh I know, I just meant to indicate that given that I'm still on 1.38 I thought there ought to be more headroom. Do you think I have any chance of reaching 3800c14?



Average to decent B-die needs 1.5-1.6V for 3800CL14, if it can even boot CL14 at all. Maybe 3800CL15 at 1.45V if lucky. Tight 3800CL15 or CL16 is fine, CL14 is honestly overhyped for real performance.

I don't think 3200CL14 should have much trouble but more importantly, what came of that temp testing? Kinda important to know if you're looking to run 3800CL15 or 3800CL14, inadequate airflow and you can forget about it.


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## Taraquin (Nov 5, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Oh I know, I just meant to indicate that given that I'm still on 1.38 I thought there ought to be more headroom. Do you think I have any chance of reaching 3800c14?


If you have a very good bin you can do 3800cl14 around 1.5V with geardownmode. My kit does 3800cl15 1T at 1.48V. 1.5V needs more cooling than you have. Try 1.45V with gdm off and 2T and tune in cl 15. Try 15 15 15 30 45, tRFC 280 or 272, wtrl 10 or 8, cwl 14, wr 14, rtp 7, rest of timings can stay the same. If your bin is mediocre try a bit higher voltage.


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 6, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> For 3800/1900 try 16 20 20 20, 36, 56, trrds/l 4/6, tfaw 16, twr 16, trtp 8, trfc 480, scls 4, wtrs 4, wtrl 8 if possible, but you may need 9 or 10, rdwr 10, wrrd 3, rest on auto. Set soc voltage to 1.12v, iod volt 1.04v, ccd 0.92, vddp 0.88, cad 24 20 24 24. Let me know if it does not work


Thanks for the quick reply, just need clarification on a few things since gigabyte calls them different. I just need help on what the following are called in my bios: scls, (whatever the timing for 56 was which i assume was trc?) , iod voltage, ccd voltage and which order for the cad impedances (i assume its the order of zentimings). I tried to set them best i could and it wouldn't post. i also need load line on or i get random bluescreens during short spikes of load (starting cinebench etc), i have it set to medium but nothing else. also im on bios f33, should i go to f34 or f35e or stay on f33?


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## Taraquin (Nov 6, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> Thanks for the quick reply, just need clarification on a few things since gigabyte calls them different. I just need help on what the following are called in my bios: scls, (whatever the timing for 56 was which i assume was trc?) , iod voltage, ccd voltage and which order for the cad impedances (i assume its the order of zentimings). I tried to set them best i could and it wouldn't post. i also need load line on or i get random bluescreens during short spikes of load (starting cinebench etc), i have it set to medium but nothing else. also im on bios f33, should i go to f34 or f35e or stay on f33?


Try bios F34, I use the same (agwsa 1.2.0.3b). Try 36 tras, 56 trc yes. 

Since it does not boot try a safe approach:
16 22 22 22 38 trc 60, trrds/l 5/8, tfaw 20, twr 16, trtp 8, wtrs/l 4/12, cwl 16, trfc 512, scls 4, rdwr 12, wrrd 3. Disable spread spectrum. 1T and gear down mode on. Let me know if this works, it should  

Let your cpu run stock, don't use fixed OC or pbo/co until you have stable ram oc, llc medium is usually fine then.


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## Valantar (Nov 6, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Average to decent B-die needs 1.5-1.6V for 3800CL14, if it can even boot CL14 at all. Maybe 3800CL15 at 1.45V if lucky. Tight 3800CL15 or CL16 is fine, CL14 is honestly overhyped for real performance.
> 
> I don't think 3200CL14 should have much trouble but more importantly, what came of that temp testing? Kinda important to know if you're looking to run 3800CL15 or 3800CL14, inadequate airflow and you can forget about it.


I decided that my previous "as few fans as possible" approach was a bit dumb, and fished out a spare NF-A12x15. For now it's just propped up between some cabling and tubing, with the side panel preventing it from falling out, but I'm thinking I'll stick it in place with some magnets to the side panel.




Works very well though, and still essentially inaudible at ~450rpm. (Also invisible in real life, the camera greatly exaggerates things.) I wanted to set it to only turn on if the RAM got hot, but apparently Aquasuite's hardware monitoring doesn't cover VRAM temperatures  For now I'm well below 40 degrees at idle though, and well below 50 even during stress testing. A bonus from this is that my VRMs are also seeing a ~10 degree drop. Not that that was necessary, but it's likely still improving things when the case is getting blown full of hot air from the rad.

Edit: apparently forgot to finish that first sentence about me being stupid and stubborn


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 7, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Try bios F34, I use the same (agwsa 1.2.0.3b). Try 36 tras, 56 trc yes.
> 
> Since it does not boot try a safe approach:
> 16 22 22 22 38 trc 60, trrds/l 5/8, tfaw 20, twr 16, trtp 8, wtrs/l 4/12, cwl 16, trfc 512, scls 4, rdwr 12, wrrd 3. Disable spread spectrum. 1T and gear down mode on. Let me know if this works, it should
> ...


alright, which timing is the scls? i couldn't see anything called that. also i never set the ccd and the iod voltage because i wasnt sure what they were called in my gigabyte bios, any ideas?


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## Valantar (Nov 7, 2021)

Hm, guess I should have tested more before getting so optimistic. Turns out even 3800c16 isn't actually stable - I'm getting errors (pretty quickly after starting Memtest) even up to 1.45V sadly. Goes to show that "system isn't crashing or throwing errors" isn't the same as it actually being stable, and given how quickly memtest started throwing errors it also says something about just how stable Windows is these days - it must have been juggling and correcting errors in the background like nobody's business. Guess I'll have to step back to c17.

Edit: or maybe I should double check my settings first and not run GDM off and 1T... At least now it isn't throwing errors within a few minutes.


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## Taraquin (Nov 7, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> alright, which timing is the scls? i couldn't see anything called that. also i never set the ccd and the iod voltage because i wasnt sure what they were called in my gigabyte bios, any ideas?


2 timings have the name scl in them. Set those to 4. Vddg Iod and ccd is under amd overclocking menu, not in timings.


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## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 7, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Hm, guess I should have tested more before getting so optimistic. Turns out even 3800c16 isn't actually stable - I'm getting errors (pretty quickly after starting Memtest) even up to 1.45V sadly. Goes to show that "system isn't crashing or throwing errors" isn't the same as it actually being stable, and given how quickly memtest started throwing errors it also says something about just how stable Windows is these days - it must have been juggling and correcting errors in the background like nobody's business. Guess I'll have to step back to c17.
> 
> Edit: or maybe I should double check my settings first and not run GDM off and 1T... At least now it isn't throwing errors within a few minutes.


You should post a zentimings screenshot so we can see what's wrong. I've seen 3200C14 FlareX kits do 3800 CL14 but not under 1.5V. Feel free to increase the voltage up to 1.6V. B-die can take up to 2V with a simple 120mm fan aimed at the memory.

GDM off for dual rank I think is only possible on some 2-DIMM B550 boards but I wouldn't bother too much with that. As long as you can do 1T, you're golden.


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## Taraquin (Nov 7, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Hm, guess I should have tested more before getting so optimistic. Turns out even 3800c16 isn't actually stable - I'm getting errors (pretty quickly after starting Memtest) even up to 1.45V sadly. Goes to show that "system isn't crashing or throwing errors" isn't the same as it actually being stable, and given how quickly memtest started throwing errors it also says something about just how stable Windows is these days - it must have been juggling and correcting errors in the background like nobody's business. Guess I'll have to step back to c17.
> 
> Edit: or maybe I should double check my settings first and not run GDM off and 1T... At least now it isn't throwing errors within a few minutes.


1T is much harder than 2T or 1T+gdm. Most people must change cad bus etc to get 1T gdm off stable. On my setup gdm and 2T runs fine with 24 20 24 24 on cad. 1T gdm off needs 40 20 30 24, everything else gives me loads of errors.


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## Valantar (Nov 7, 2021)

rares495 said:


> You should post a zentimings screenshot so we can see what's wrong. I've seen 3200C14 FlareX kits do 3800 CL14 but not under 1.5V. Feel free to increase the voltage up to 1.6V. B-die can take up to 2V with a simple 120mm fan aimed at the memory.
> 
> GDM off for dual rank I think is only possible on some 2-DIMM B550 boards but I wouldn't bother too much with that. As long as you can do 1T, you're golden.


After fixing my minor PEBKAC issue I'm currently at ~160% memtest with 0 errors after going to 2t (stepped down to 1.4V). Current settings:



Previous settings that gave errors almost immediately, which from what I can tell are identical except for the command rate:



Should I try 1T with GDM enabled instead? Is there a meaningful difference in the performance tradeoff between the two?

Also, does anyone know if ASRock B550 boards lack a software VDIMM readout? I can't find anything resembling that in HWinfo at least.


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## Taraquin (Nov 7, 2021)

Valantar said:


> After fixing my minor PEBKAC issue I'm currently at ~160% memtest with 0 errors after going to 2t (stepped down to 1.4V). Current settings:
> View attachment 224183
> Previous settings that gave errors almost immediately, which from what I can tell are identical except for the command rate:
> View attachment 224184
> ...


2T is often a bit faster than gdm, but slightly less stable. Stick with 2T is my advice. You can try 15 15 15 30 45, but you will need 1.43-1.5V to do that. If you set it to 1.45V you can lower trfc to 280 or 272 as it scales with voltage. 1.5V allows for 264 or 256.


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## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 7, 2021)

Valantar said:


> After fixing my minor PEBKAC issue I'm currently at ~160% memtest with 0 errors after going to 2t (stepped down to 1.4V). Current settings:
> View attachment 224183
> Previous settings that gave errors almost immediately, which from what I can tell are identical except for the command rate:
> View attachment 224184
> ...


Use this to calculate your tRFC: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1A7G97QOL0dNMwJZa9SYEq2RElJ5T6Hcx9WdReTsnIWw/edit#gid=0 . You should input the correct values for tRFC2 and tRFC4 too even though they are almost never used.

1T + GDM is sort of like a 1.5T performance-wise and is definitely better than 2T. I would stick to 1T+GDM. Since you have no uneven timings like CAS 15, GDM doesn't really affect you much if at all.

There's nothing wrong with the timings in the second screenshot except for the GDM. As I said, GDM off with dual rank memory (2x16 or 4x8) is very tricky to get stable and is ultimately not worth it. Other than that, perhaps tRDWR and tWRRD could be set to 9-3 or 9-1 to improve stability. Generally you want tRDWR to be tRCDRD/2 +1 with as little tWRRD as possible. Sometimes tWRRD 1 works, sometimes only 3 will work. tWTRL will go down to 8, tRRDL will go down to 4 and maybe the SCLs will go down to 2 but keeping the SCLs high in order to lower the primary timings is more desirable.

In my opinion, your kit can do 3800 CL14 with a bit more voltage and with the right rtt/drvstr values. Don't be afraid to set 1.6V to test things. Nothing bad will happen to your memory. You might also want to go higher on the vSOC. It's safe up to 1.2V but you have to keep VDDG IOD within 50/75/100 mV of the SOC and the CCD within 50/75/100 mV of the IOD. They sort of go together from my experience.

As far as stability testing is concerned, the best way to test is by using your PC for a while. Sure, you can run TM5 or Karhu or MemTest but ultimately you will need to check the long-term stability at some point. Attaching TM5 with the 1usmus_v3 config. Run 20 cycles of this bad boy and you should be golden if there are no errors.

Here's me being super super tight if you feel like having some fun.


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## schidddy (Nov 7, 2021)

hi people,
i just cant get my 5900x over 1900mhz IF, 1933 makes Aida64 Cache and Mem Benchmark crash after a few seconds. I may have found the problem but the problem is also my problem.
My gigabyte Aorus Elite wont change/set the VDDG CCD and IOD Settings. CCD and IOD sticking at 0.99v
Soc Voltage is set to 1.13v and should be fine.
RAM is clocked down for IF testing and shouldnt make any problems. 1900 stable, 1933 IF, crash on cache testing.
My Gigabyte lets me change the VDDP and VDDG on the tweakings menu and also in AMD Overclocking in the Settings tab. in the tweaking tab changes doesnt have effect at all. on AMD Overclocking it changes but not to the voltage i set it to it takes whatever it wants but is higher now if i set it to manual.
Somebody experiences on gb boards? Or maybe my 5900x doesnt like anything higher then 1933mhz, on 1966mhz it crashes on the same cache Testing, but also bootable


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## Taraquin (Nov 7, 2021)

rares495 said:


> Use this to calculate your tRFC: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1A7G97QOL0dNMwJZa9SYEq2RElJ5T6Hcx9WdReTsnIWw/edit#gid=0 . You should input the correct values for tRFC2 and tRFC4 too even though they are almost never used.
> 
> 1T + GDM is sort of like a 1.5T performance-wise and is definitely better than 2T. I would stick to 1T+GDM. Since you have no uneven timings like CAS 15, GDM doesn't really affect you much if at all.
> 
> ...


I mostly agree with you, BUT on Ryzen 5000 it seems 2T often gives better perf than 1T gdm. I get slightly better fps in SOTTR and 0.5-1ns lower latency in aida with 2T.


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## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 7, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> I mostly agree with you, BUT on Ryzen 5000 it seems 2T often gives better perf than 1T gdm. I get slightly better fps in SOTTR and 0.5-1ns lower latency in aida with 2T.


Sure, I'm not going to argue your findings on this topic. My experience has been different but I'm not an expert on the matter. From my understanding of how GDM works, it wouldn't make sense for it to be worse unless you've got some uneven timings. These below seem to be affected by GDM:

• tCL

• tWR

• tCWL

• tRTP

These have always been even numbers for me except tCWL which is affected by tRDWR/tWRRD values so I had some fun while testing the performance. Lowest I could set it to was 11 (uneven) but that required high tRDWR and was worse performance-wise.


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## Valantar (Nov 7, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> 2T is often a bit faster than gdm, but slightly less stable. Stick with 2T is my advice. You can try 15 15 15 30 45, but you will need 1.43-1.5V to do that. If you set it to 1.45V you can lower trfc to 280 or 272 as it scales with voltage. 1.5V allows for 264 or 256.





rares495 said:


> Use this to calculate your tRFC: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1A7G97QOL0dNMwJZa9SYEq2RElJ5T6Hcx9WdReTsnIWw/edit#gid=0 . You should input the correct values for tRFC2 and tRFC4 too even though they are almost never used.
> 
> 1T + GDM is sort of like a 1.5T performance-wise and is definitely better than 2T. I would stick to 1T+GDM. Since you have no uneven timings like CAS 15, GDM doesn't really affect you much if at all.
> 
> ...


I ran HCI Memtest until ~150% with zero errors, so I decided to switch to TM5 anta777 to see whether it triggers anything. If not, I'll run HCI overnight and probably leave it here for now. At the settings @Taraquin suggested above, trfc272, 1.45V, 0 errors in HCI.

TM5 has the added advantage of running a consistent 100% CPU load with a relatively low heat output, so my Quadro switches into 100% fan mode (because my default profile is _very_ tuned for silence) meaning TM5 actually makes my DIMM temperatures go _down_ 



I'm well aware that I'll have to do long-term in-use testing to determine absolute stability and how memory instability can be really sporadic and weird,, but at the same time I think @tabascosauz's suggestions previously about testing _before_ this make sense (though I certainly don't have the patience for the suggested 600% HCI + 3 runs of TM5 + 2000% HCI - judging by the time it takes me to get to 100% HCI that would likely take more than 24 hours!). I have no qualms whatsoever with stepping back to some more conservative settings if there's an indication of instability, but for now I'm really just having fun seeing where this can go.


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## Taraquin (Nov 7, 2021)

rares495 said:


> Sure, I'm not going to argue your findings on this topic. My experience has been different but I'm not an expert on the matter. From my understanding of how GDM works, it wouldn't make sense for it to be worse unless you've got some uneven timings. These below seem to be affected by GDM:
> 
> • tCL
> 
> ...


Yeah, on Ryzen 3000 I got better perf with 1T gdm, but on 5000 I get better perf with 2T. Difference is small though.



Valantar said:


> I ran HCI Memtest until ~150% with zero errors, so I decided to switch to TM5 anta777 to see whether it triggers anything. If not, I'll run HCI overnight and probably leave it here for now. At the settings @Taraquin suggested above, trfc272, 1.45V, 0 errors in HCI.
> 
> TM5 has the added advantage of running a consistent 100% CPU load with a relatively low heat output, so my Quadro switches into 100% fan mode (because my default profile is _very_ tuned for silence) meaning TM5 actually makes my DIMM temperatures go _down_
> View attachment 224236
> I'm well aware that I'll have to do long-term in-use testing to determine absolute stability and how memory instability can be really sporadic and weird,, but at the same time I think @tabascosauz's suggestions previously about testing _before_ this make sense (though I certainly don't have the patience for the suggested 600% HCI + 3 runs of TM5 + 2000% HCI - judging by the time it takes me to get to 100% HCI that would likely take more than 24 hours!). I have no qualms whatsoever with stepping back to some more conservative settings if there's an indication of instability, but for now I'm really just having fun seeing where this can go.


Try twr 14, trtp 7, iod will probably work fine at 1.00V, if not try 1.04V.


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## schidddy (Nov 7, 2021)

hello over there, i got my problem solved with the vddp/vddg volts
now i have some further questions if u people maybe able to help i would be glad. I see some people here running their b-die at 4000 on cl14 and such crazy settings. Currently im stuck at 3800 at 16-16-16-32-50
Any step up on the RAM to 3866 will not even let me post, and i am already at 1.45v with the RAMs (hwinfo reads 1.47v, RAM is cooled with an additional fan and doesnt go over 43c
i did attach my Zen Timings, any suggestion or just unlucky with a shit sample. IF 1900 runs stable
edit its trident z neo 3600 cl16 rated kit


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## tabascosauz (Nov 7, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> I mostly agree with you, BUT on Ryzen 5000 it seems 2T often gives better perf than 1T gdm. I get slightly better fps in SOTTR and 0.5-1ns lower latency in aida with 2T.





rares495 said:


> Sure, I'm not going to argue your findings on this topic. My experience has been different but I'm not an expert on the matter. From my understanding of how GDM works, it wouldn't make sense for it to be worse unless you've got some uneven timings. These below seem to be affected by GDM:



Neither of you have to be "wrong". GDM vs 2T is not set in stone. The two are tied on my 5900X+CJR, GDM is slightly faster on 5900X+Bdie DR but only in some instances, GDM was faster on 3700X+CJR, the two are the same on 4650G+Bdie SR, GDM is slightly faster on 5600G/5700G+Bdie SR but only in some instances, etc.



Valantar said:


> I ran HCI Memtest until ~150% with zero errors, so I decided to switch to TM5 anta777 to see whether it triggers anything. If not, I'll run HCI overnight and probably leave it here for now. At the settings @Taraquin suggested above, trfc272, 1.45V, 0 errors in HCI.
> 
> TM5 has the added advantage of running a consistent 100% CPU load with a relatively low heat output, so my Quadro switches into 100% fan mode (because my default profile is _very_ tuned for silence) meaning TM5 actually makes my DIMM temperatures go _down_
> 
> I'm well aware that I'll have to do long-term in-use testing to determine absolute stability and how memory instability can be really sporadic and weird,, but at the same time I think @tabascosauz's suggestions previously about testing _before_ this make sense (though I certainly don't have the patience for the suggested 600% HCI + 3 runs of TM5 + 2000% HCI - judging by the time it takes me to get to 100% HCI that would likely take more than 24 hours!). I have no qualms whatsoever with stepping back to some more conservative settings if there's an indication of instability, but for now I'm really just having fun seeing where this can go.



Must be something up with how you ran HCI, it's not that slow. Are you using the paid or free version? On the free version make sure to set each instance to about 3GB then open enough instances to add to fill all of your available memory leaving ~0.5-1GB free (that last instance should be set to whatever number you need).

On the paid version make sure Low Priority Threads is unchecked. Not sure how it affects 8C/16T but I run 24 threads with per thread Auto size.

imo TM5 anta777 should run much harder than HCI ever will. If I leave mine at stock 142/95/140, TM5 can spike to 87C, about 10C higher than any game or stress test (even LinX is like 85C max!).TM5 anta777 runs "100%" load yes just like HCI - but there's a lot of types of "100%" load......which is why HWInfo's per-core power metrics are so important. TM5 tends to ebb and flow in all-core power and temp, but usually cycles an unusually heavy load through a single core that jumps around - with HWInfo you can track that single 11-20W anomaly as it moves around despite everything being at 100%.


----------



## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 7, 2021)

schidddy said:


> hello over there, i got my problem solved with the vddp/vddg volts
> now i have some further questions if u people maybe able to help i would be glad. I see some people here running their b-die at 4000 on cl14 and such crazy settings. Currently im stuck at 3800 at 16-6-16-32-50
> Any step up on the RAM to 3866 will not even let me post, and i am already at 1.45v with the RAMs (hwinfo reads 1.47v, RAM is cooled with an additional fan and doesnt go over 43c
> i did attach my Zen Timings, any suggestion or just unlucky with a shit sample. IF 1900 runs stable
> edit its trident z neo 3600 cl16 rated kit


Instead of pushing for higher FCLK, I would focus on 3800 CL14. Your kit can certainly do that. Feel free to copy my timings from the ZenTimings screenshot above and increase the voltage to 1.5 or 1.55V.



Valantar said:


> I ran HCI Memtest until ~150% with zero errors, so I decided to switch to TM5 anta777 to see whether it triggers anything. If not, I'll run HCI overnight and probably leave it here for now. At the settings @Taraquin suggested above, trfc272, 1.45V, 0 errors in HCI.
> 
> TM5 has the added advantage of running a consistent 100% CPU load with a relatively low heat output, so my Quadro switches into 100% fan mode (because my default profile is _very_ tuned for silence) meaning TM5 actually makes my DIMM temperatures go _down_
> 
> I'm well aware that I'll have to do long-term in-use testing to determine absolute stability and how memory instability can be really sporadic and weird,, but at the same time I think @tabascosauz's suggestions previously about testing _before_ this make sense (though I certainly don't have the patience for the suggested 600% HCI + 3 runs of TM5 + 2000% HCI - judging by the time it takes me to get to 100% HCI that would likely take more than 24 hours!). I have no qualms whatsoever with stepping back to some more conservative settings if there's an indication of instability, but for now I'm really just having fun seeing where this can go.


HCI is a walk in the park compared to TM5 *with 1usmus_v3 config*. I strongly advise testing with TM5 because if you pass 20 cycles of that, you really don't need to test with any other tool and can begin using your PC normally to check long-term stability. Again, you can find the proper version of TM5 attached to my post #176 above. All you need to do is restart your PC, kill all unnecessary garbage and run the thing as administrator. It will fill your RAM and should take ~1h for 16 GB and maybe ~2h for 32 GB.

By the way, there's a sheet in the tRFC calculator linked above which has more details on each TM5 error and potential fixes. Yet another benefit over HCI.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 7, 2021)

@schidddy I don't think it's your Bdie. What revision is your board? rev.1.0 is a launch day 4-layer board, that doesn't benefit from the later improved B550-era memory topology improvements. Most average 4-layer boards can hit 4266-4600 single rank, but dual rank like yours may cap out at 3733-3866.


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## Taraquin (Nov 7, 2021)

schidddy said:


> hello over there, i got my problem solved with the vddp/vddg volts
> now i have some further questions if u people maybe able to help i would be glad. I see some people here running their b-die at 4000 on cl14 and such crazy settings. Currently im stuck at 3800 at 16-16-16-32-50
> Any step up on the RAM to 3866 will not even let me post, and i am already at 1.45v with the RAMs (hwinfo reads 1.47v, RAM is cooled with an additional fan and doesnt go over 43c
> i did attach my Zen Timings, any suggestion or just unlucky with a shit sample. IF 1900 runs stable
> edit its trident z neo 3600 cl16 rated kit


Trc 48, tRFC 264, 272 or 280, twr 16, trtp 8, wtrs 4, wtrl 8 or 10, scl 4 on both. Try that, it should improve your scores quite a bit.


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## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 7, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> @schidddy I don't think it's your Bdie. What revision is your board? rev.1.0 is a launch day 4-layer board, that doesn't benefit from the later improved B550-era memory topology improvements. Most average 4-layer boards can hit 4266-4600 single rank, but dual rank like yours may cap out at 3733-3866.


I think pcie gen 4 requires at least 6 layers for signal integrity.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 7, 2021)

rares495 said:


> I think pcie gen 4 requires at least 6 layers for signal integrity.



Nah that was early speculation. Aorus Elite is a 4-layer board, Aorus Pro is a 6-layer board. All the AM4 mATX boards except for the new Aorus Pro AX are 4-layer. All Steel Legend/Extreme4 is 4-layer. Gigabyte is one of the most transparent companies about this, all it takes a glimpse at the bottom left of the board.

Most vendors don't advertise different QVL for single rank and dual rank, but MSI does. They put the limit at 4400 SR/3733 DR, I'd say 3800 is already pretty good for a 4-layer. My TUF mATX couldn't do 3866 either. Steel Legend os one of the best 4-layers and iirc in practice it was 4666/3866 for that board.

@rares495 definitely, TM5 is the much harder test to pass. HCI is good for overnight testing because it can catch intermittent errors hours into testing for barely-barely-stable setups, and same goes for IF.

Was lopping off some unnecessary VDIMM and VSOC at the same time. I know I usually need 1.125V + mild LLC for this, but wanted to see if 1.118V + weak LLC would work. No problem for about 2 weeks, and ran TM5 about 20 times, but look what the cat dragged in:


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## purecain (Nov 7, 2021)

I tried the suggestion of lowering ram timings, unfortunately I also changed the settings for the curve optimizer etc to negative 20 on all cores at the same time. 
After being stable for 20hours running almost any benchmark, when I started streaming I ran into my first bsod after 10m. 

After undoing the settings it was fine streaming for 3 1/2 hrs. I'm not sure weather it was the system or the game for the last crash.

I'm going to add a nice new AIO very soon. 

I will be trying again though, I need to read up a little more on what voltages affect which settings and i should be able to get a decent set up.


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## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 8, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Nah that was early speculation. Aorus Elite is a 4-layer board, Aorus Pro is a 6-layer board. All the AM4 mATX boards except for the new Aorus Pro AX are 4-layer. All Steel Legend/Extreme4 is 4-layer. Gigabyte is one of the most transparent companies about this, all it takes a glimpse at the bottom left of the board.
> 
> Most vendors don't advertise different QVL for single rank and dual rank, but MSI does. They put the limit at 4400 SR/3733 DR, I'd say 3800 is already pretty good for a 4-layer. My TUF mATX couldn't do 3866 either. Steel Legend os one of the best 4-layers and iirc in practice it was 4666/3866 for that board.
> 
> ...


Yeah, that's exactly why no tool can guarantee 100% stability. Manual testing over a longer period is always the final step.



purecain said:


> I tried the suggestion of lowering ram timings, unfortunately I also changed the settings for the curve optimizer etc to negative 20 on all cores at the same time.
> After being stable for 20hours running almost any benchmark, when I started streaming I ran into my first bsod after 10m.
> 
> After undoing the settings it was fine streaming for 3 1/2 hrs. I'm not sure weather it was the system or the game for the last crash.
> ...


Use Ryzen Master to find out which cores are the best. Apply -5 negative offset to all the other cores, -10 to the second best core, -15 to the best core. Test that for a while. If all's well, try -15 and -20 on the better cores. Leave the others alone.


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 8, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> 2 timings have the name scl in them. Set those to 4. Vddg Iod and ccd is under amd overclocking menu, not in timings.


alrighty ill give that a crack and let you know how it goes


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## Taraquin (Nov 8, 2021)

rares495 said:


> Yeah, that's exactly why no tool can guarantee 100% stability. Manual testing over a longer period is always the final step.
> 
> 
> Use Ryzen Master to find out which cores are the best. Apply -5 negative offset to all the other cores, -10 to the second best core, -15 to the best core. Test that for a while. If all's well, try -15 and -20 on the better cores. Leave the others alone.


On my setup the best core (according to RM) is the one of the 2 that does not UV to -30 at +200 pbo.


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 8, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Try bios F34, I use the same (agwsa 1.2.0.3b). Try 36 tras, 56 trc yes.
> 
> Since it does not boot try a safe approach:
> 16 22 22 22 38 trc 60, trrds/l 5/8, tfaw 20, twr 16, trtp 8, wtrs/l 4/12, cwl 16, trfc 512, scls 4, rdwr 12, wrrd 3. Disable spread spectrum. 1T and gear down mode on. Let me know if this works, it should
> ...


alright this booted, I found those 2 voltages aswell listed as VDDG IOD and VDDG CCD, both are set in mv aswell.
So im running your safe options and 1.4v on the dram, i guessed this since no mention of ram voltage.
The original timings just gave me a c3 stop code followed by b6 stop code.


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## Taraquin (Nov 8, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> alright this booted, I found those 2 voltages aswell listed as VDDG IOD and VDDG CCD, both are set in mv aswell.
> So im running your safe options and 1.4v on the dram, i guessed this since no mention of ram voltage.
> The original timings just gave me a c3 stop code followed by b6 stop code.


Okay, thats good. I don't know errorcodes so don't ask  Run Testmem 5 with usmus1 config for 5-10 rounds to check stability. If stable try lowering the following: tRFC 496, 480, 464, 448, 432 you probably can't go lower. Start at 496, if stable drop 16 etc, this timing affect gaming the most, lowering it from 512 to 464 for instance might give you 2% performance alone. If your binning us very good, below 450 might work. 

When you find lowest try lowering tRCDRD/WR to 21 or 20, next tRP to 21 or 20. If that works lower tRAS by the same and make tRC=tRAS+tRP. If you can run them at 20, set tRDWR to 10. For instance if you can do tRCDs at 20 and tRP at 21 then set tRAS to 36 and tRC to 57. tRAS=tCL+tRCDRD on B-die and CJR/DJR, often does not work on Micron rev E/B and most others. 

When you found lowest try trrds/l 4/6 and tFAW 16. If it works try tWTRL 10, 9 or 8. 

Hynix DJR only scales CL from voltage, rest don't scale if I remember correct. Since 16 works at 3800 then 1.4V is okay. 

Please post a zentimings screenshot.


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## Valantar (Nov 8, 2021)

Running HCI overnight gave me four errors, so I guess those settings aren't 100% stable. Should I try bumping the voltage further (currently at 1.45V) or changing something else?


tabascosauz said:


> Must be something up with how you ran HCI, it's not that slow. Are you using the paid or free version? On the free version make sure to set each instance to about 3GB then open enough instances to add to fill all of your available memory leaving ~0.5-1GB free (that last instance should be set to whatever number you need).
> 
> On the paid version make sure Low Priority Threads is unchecked. Not sure how it affects 8C/16T but I run 24 threads with per thread Auto size.
> 
> imo TM5 anta777 should run much harder than HCI ever will. If I leave mine at stock 142/95/140, TM5 can spike to 87C, about 10C higher than any game or stress test (even LinX is like 85C max!).TM5 anta777 runs "100%" load yes just like HCI - but there's a lot of types of "100%" load......which is why HWInfo's per-core power metrics are so important. TM5 tends to ebb and flow in all-core power and temp, but usually cycles an unusually heavy load through a single core that jumps around - with HWInfo you can track that single 11-20W anomaly as it moves around despite everything being at 100%.


I might need to run more HCI instances, at least 1/thread? I'm just opening 10, which allows me to run 9 at 3000MB and the last one at 1000-2000 depending on what Windows feels like is enough to hit 31GB in-use for the current load. I would assume the pro version automatically allocates a worker to every thread? As I mentioned previously I tried to buy the pro version but their payment system just plain refused to work, so I'm stuck with free for now.

As for the loads, this HCI setup runs at ~80-90% CPU load, 4.7GHz and ~80W. TM5 anta777 runs ~100% load at 4.8GHz, but at or below 100W, hence why I called it a relatively light load. Looking into it now it seems to be hitting my 120A EDC setting. Kind of weird given the package power reading? Especially seeing how this isn't a current spike at all, but rather a sustained load, and the highest TDC reading is 65A. I'm currently running 120/95/120, I guess I could always raise my EDC some.


rares495 said:


> HCI is a walk in the park compared to TM5 *with 1usmus_v3 config*. I strongly advise testing with TM5 because if you pass 20 cycles of that, you really don't need to test with any other tool and can begin using your PC normally to check long-term stability. Again, you can find the proper version of TM5 attached to my post #176 above. All you need to do is restart your PC, kill all unnecessary garbage and run the thing as administrator. It will fill your RAM and should take ~1h for 16 GB and maybe ~2h for 32 GB.
> 
> By the way, there's a sheet in the tRFC calculator linked above which has more details on each TM5 error and potential fixes. Yet another benefit over HCI.


I know, but as @tabascosauz said above it's nice to have something that can run unattended for long periods. I'll try the 1usmus config of TM5 after deciding what I'll try tweaking next.


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## Taraquin (Nov 8, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Running HCI overnight gave me four errors, so I guess those settings aren't 100% stable. Should I try bumping the voltage further (currently at 1.45V) or changing something else?
> 
> I might need to run more HCI instances, at least 1/thread? I'm just opening 10, which allows me to run 9 at 3000MB and the last one at 1000-2000 depending on what Windows feels like is enough to hit 31GB in-use for the current load. I would assume the pro version automatically allocates a worker to every thread? As I mentioned previously I tried to buy the pro version but their payment system just plain refused to work, so I'm stuck with free for now.
> 
> ...


If you are satisfied with current timings then bump voltage to 1.42V, that should be enough. You should try tWTRL 8 as this should be equal to tRTP, but might not work. If 272 tRFC works at 1.4V your bin is good. Going to 1.45V can allow tRFC of 264 or maybe even 256.


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## Valantar (Nov 8, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> If you are satisfied with current timings then bump voltage to 1.42V, that should be enough. You should try tWTRL 8 as this should be equal to tRTP, but might not work. If 272 tRFC works at 1.4V your bin is good. Going to 1.45V can allow tRFC of 264 or maybe even 256.


That failed test was at 1.45V, currently testing at 1.48V to see if that makes a difference. Currently into my fourth run of TM5 1usmus with no errors so far, but I won't be here to keep it running for much longer, so I'll just switch over to HCI when I leave and let that run. I finally managed to get their payment system working, so at least now it should be a bit faster.

If this seems error free at 1.48V later today I'll try adusting the timings to your suggestions here


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 8, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Okay, thats good. I don't know errorcodes so don't ask  Run Testmem 5 with usmus1 config for 5-10 rounds to check stability. If stable try lowering the following: tRFC 496, 480, 464, 448, 432 you probably can't go lower. Start at 496, if stable drop 16 etc, this timing affect gaming the most, lowering it from 512 to 464 for instance might give you 2% performance alone. If your binning us very good, below 450 might work.
> 
> When you find lowest try lowering tRCDRD/WR to 21 or 20, next tRP to 21 or 20. If that works lower tRAS by the same and make tRC=tRAS+tRP. If you can run them at 20, set tRDWR to 10. For instance if you can do tRCDs at 20 and tRP at 21 then set tRAS to 36 and tRC to 57. tRAS=tCL+tRCDRD on B-die and CJR/DJR, often does not work on Micron rev E/B and most others.
> 
> ...


alright ill run testmem5, this is the zentimings screenshot so far


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## tabascosauz (Nov 8, 2021)

Valantar said:


> That failed test was at 1.45V, currently testing at 1.48V to see if that makes a difference. Currently into my fourth run of TM5 1usmus with no errors so far, but I won't be here to keep it running for much longer, so I'll just switch over to HCI when I leave and let that run. I finally managed to get their payment system working, so at least now it should be a bit faster.
> 
> If this seems error free at 1.48V later today I'll try adusting the timings to your suggestions here



Yeah I can't say I've ever seen HCI CPU usage so low even in the free version. I never ran as many instances as CPU threads with HCI free. HCI Pro isn't much different, it just gives you the option to set # of threads, as well as capacity per thread (leaving it on Auto is fine), so I set it to CPU threads and it loads to 100% (well, "100%" as I explained earlier). Just make sure Low Priority Threads is not checked.

Obviously no user input needed to run HCI overnight, but if you're already through 4 runs of TM5 don't fret too much about HCI. Daily stable is generally regarded as 600-700%, but I just have some adverse experiences between 1000-2000% so OCD.


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## Taraquin (Nov 8, 2021)

Valantar said:


> That failed test was at 1.45V, currently testing at 1.48V to see if that makes a difference. Currently into my fourth run of TM5 1usmus with no errors so far, but I won't be here to keep it running for much longer, so I'll just switch over to HCI when I leave and let that run. I finally managed to get their payment system working, so at least now it should be a bit faster.
> 
> If this seems error free at 1.48V later today I'll try adusting the timings to your suggestions here


If you only had 4 errors in HCL overnight then 1.46-1.47V is probably enough. If I pass 20 TM5 usmus1 I call it rock solid  Seems your bin is very similar to mine, I need 1.47V for about the same timings at 3800, but 1T.



Dar1usElite said:


> alright ill run testmem5, this is the zentimings screenshot so far
> 
> View attachment 224326


Looks good, try my suggestions 1 by 1 if stable. If unstable set voltage a bit higher. Lots of errors try 1.45V, very few errors try 1.42V. Another boost for fps is trying 1T without gear down mode, but that us trickier, can help you after you have tuned the other timings if you want?


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 8, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Looks good, try my suggestions 1 by 1 if stable. If unstable set voltage a bit higher. Lits of errors try 1.45V, very few errors try 1.42V.


So i downloaded testmem5 and it had a config called 1usmus_v3, it only ran for 3 cycles (unsure if i can change that) but no errors


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## Taraquin (Nov 8, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> So i downloaded testmem5 and it had a config called 1usmus_v3, it only ran for 3 cycles (unsure if i can change that) but no errors


In the configfile change cycles to 20, edit it with wordpad. Most say 20 or 25 is enough. If you pass 10 rounds you are usually 99% stable in my xp.


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## Valantar (Nov 8, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Yeah I can't say I've ever seen HCI CPU usage so low even in the free version. I never ran as many instances as CPU threads with HCI free. HCI Pro isn't much different, it just gives you the option to set # of threads, as well as capacity per thread (leaving it on Auto is fine), so I set it to CPU threads and it loads to 100% (well, "100%" as I explained earlier). Just make sure Low Priority Threads is not checked.
> 
> Obviously no user input needed to run HCI overnight, but if you're already through 4 runs of TM5 don't fret too much about HCI. Daily stable is generally regarded as 600-700%, but I just have some adverse experiences between 1000-2000% so OCD.
> 
> View attachment 224325


Sounds odd - I don't think free has an option for en/disabling low priority threads though. I got it going before I left home just now, but I forgot to uncheck that, so we'll see where it's at when I get back. I got through something like 7 runs of TM5 1usmus before this, so it seems stable - but so did my previous settings after a 2hr run of TM5 anta777.


Taraquin said:


> If you only had 4 errors in HCL overnight then 1.46-1.47V is probably enough. If I pass 20 TM5 usmus1 I call it rock solid  Seems your bin is very similar to mine, I need 1.47V for about the same timings at 3800, but 1T.


1T with GDM enabled or disabled? If it passes the current testing I'll make some passes at 1.46 and/or 1.47 over the coming days, as well as tuning the settings you mentioned above. This has long since gotten to a point of (very) diminishing returns, so I'm really just looking for stability and any left-over low hanging fruit now. After that it's on to CO testing to identify which of my cores aren't handling -30.



Taraquin said:


> In the configfile change cycles to 20, edit it with wordpad. Most say 20 or 25 is enough. If you pass 10 rounds you are usually 99% stable in my xp.


Lol, I really should have looked into that rather than just restarting it every three cycles. I guess I got through 21 cycles with my current settings then


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 8, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> In the configfile change cycles to 20, edit it with wordpad. Most say 20 or 25 is enough. If you pass 10 rounds you are usually 99% stable in my xp.


This is how its going so far, does it look right to you? namely ram usage...?


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## schidddy (Nov 8, 2021)

@tabascosauz 
aah shit i already felt like i bought shit deciding on that board. Yeah its AN Aourus Elite Rev1.0
Buying a new one ist not the problem but i just set up my watercooling system nice and clean, got all air out and running fine so far except the RAM. When jumping up to 3866mhz on the RAM i already felt like running against a hardwall and on my experience it should do at least a boot if the ram is really having trouble with that low freq. So it is probably as u guys say, the Problem is the board. Now the question is, is it really worth that business changing the board to get to 4000mhz RAM Speed or should i just tighten the timings as @rares495 said. 
@Taraquin thanks i will try that but this evening, besides of that, do you see any indifferences or settings that might hurt each other on the timings?


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## tabascosauz (Nov 8, 2021)

schidddy said:


> @tabascosauz
> aah shit i already felt like i bought shit deciding on that board. Yeah its AN Aourus Elite Rev1.0
> Buying a new one ist not the problem but i just set up my watercooling system nice and clean, got all air out and running fine so far except the RAM. When jumping up to 3866mhz on the RAM i already felt like running against a hardwall and on my experience it should do at least a boot if the ram is really having trouble with that low freq. So it is probably as u guys say, the Problem is the board. Now the question is, is it really worth that business changing the board to get to 4000mhz RAM Speed or should i just tighten the timings as @rares495 said.
> @Taraquin thanks i will try that but this evening, besides of that, do you see any indifferences or settings that might hurt each other on the timings?



If board works fine for you, hang onto it.

Don't count on doing 4000 on 5900X. Especially on dual rank. Some 5900X won't even boot 4000, all the others will be an endless stream of hundreds or thousands of WHEA errors (some turn off the WHEA reporting service and pretend all is well, kinda dumb solution).

I can boot 4000 but it's flooded with WHEA. 3866 is fine but the WHEAs come trickling in no matter what. 3800 is stable at 1.106V ish.

Don't get sucked into the hype validations with your daily rig. You have to remember dual rank is free performance in itself, you've already got a leg up on all the single rank users - they need that extra freq to even have a chance at catching up completely.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 8, 2021)

Valantar: If it passes 20 rounds ca all it a day  1T without gdm, but it's a bit tricky, stick with 2T I advice. 

Dar1usElite: Looks good, test 10 rounds then tweak.



schidddy said:


> @tabascosauz
> aah shit i already felt like i bought shit deciding on that board. Yeah its AN Aourus Elite Rev1.0
> Buying a new one ist not the problem but i just set up my watercooling system nice and clean, got all air out and running fine so far except the RAM. When jumping up to 3866mhz on the RAM i already felt like running against a hardwall and on my experience it should do at least a boot if the ram is really having trouble with that low freq. So it is probably as u guys say, the Problem is the board. Now the question is, is it really worth that business changing the board to get to 4000mhz RAM Speed or should i just tighten the timings as @rares495 said.
> @Taraquin thanks i will try that but this evening, besides of that, do you see any indifferences or settings that might hurt each other on the timings?


Wr 16, rtp 8, wtrs 4, wtrl 10 or 8, rfc 288 or 280, wrwrscl 4, rdrdscl 4.


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## purecain (Nov 8, 2021)

Just watched a video on ProcODT and the recommended setting is between 40 and 60ohms. Mine was set to 33ohms on auto. I've changed that to 53.3 and hopefully this should give me the memory stability I needed. I'm going to retry the settings.  I added the soc voltage of 1.1v and can now achieve 3733mhz so 1866mhz IF. I can not get 1900mhz IF to boot though... still working on it.


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## Taraquin (Nov 8, 2021)

purecain said:


> Just watcxhed a video on ProcODT and the recommended setting is between 40 and 60ohms. Mine was set to 33ohms on auto. I've changed that to 53.3 and hopefully this should give me the memory stability I needed. I'm going to retry the settings.


On ryzen 5000 single rank 28 to 37, dual rank 34 to 48. Ryzen 1 and 2 needed much higher. 53 is not good on 3000 and 5000.


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## schidddy (Nov 8, 2021)

okay @tabascosauz  i guess i stay with the board, do you guys think i run into problems clocking the CPU to 4.8 to 4.9ghz if needed? i know it as an inferior VRM design but i am actually more likely to overclock efficiently then bruteforce method. Now im actually very fine with manual oc all@46 at 1.16v under load
@Taraquin ill try that this evening, thank you. Do you think i am in range with the RAM Volts with that values or do i need to set up? Its set to 1.45v hw info showing 1.47v

greetings


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 8, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Dar1usElite: Looks good, test 10 rounds then tweak.


it was upto like 7 or something and i went out and came back and the system had rebooted, upped dram voltage to 1.45, it error'd straight away, assuming this was an anomally because i hadnt ran testmem in admin mode, i restarted it and its been fine


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## tabascosauz (Nov 8, 2021)

schidddy said:


> okay @tabascosauz  i guess i stay with the board, do you guys think i run into problems clocking the CPU to 4.8 to 4.9ghz if needed? i know it as an inferior VRM design but i am actually more likely to overclock efficiently then bruteforce method. Now im actually very fine with manual oc all@46 at 1.16v under load
> @Taraquin ill try that this evening, thank you. Do you think i am in range with the RAM Volts with that values or do i need to set up? Its set to 1.45v hw info showing 1.47v
> 
> greetings



It's not an inferior VRM design. It's the Aorus Pro with a cheaper heatsink and a 4-layer PCB, you could argue that the newer Vishay 50A parts make the Elite a stronger VRM than the Aorus Pro with those dated IR3553s. Granted, ISL69138 is probably not a splendid choice for a controller, but 12 x 50A will handle any OC 5900X just fine. In any case it has a VRM temp sensor so you can always monitor


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## Valantar (Nov 8, 2021)

schidddy said:


> okay @tabascosauz  i guess i stay with the board, do you guys think i run into problems clocking the CPU to 4.8 to 4.9ghz if needed? i know it as an inferior VRM design but i am actually more likely to overclock efficiently then bruteforce method. Now im actually very fine with manual oc all@46 at 1.16v under load
> @Taraquin ill try that this evening, thank you. Do you think i am in range with the RAM Volts with that values or do i need to set up? Its set to 1.45v hw info showing 1.47v
> 
> greetings


Is all-core OCing on Zen3 really the best idea, performance wise? It's been a while since I was reading up on this, but back then people were reporting better results with a combination of increasing PBO limits and negative curve optimizer to allow for higher boosting (both ST and MT), rather than setting a single-all-core clock (losing ST performance but possibly gaining MT). Of course the methods needed to optimize this are very different and a bit more complicated, but it's still doable.


----------



## schidddy (Nov 8, 2021)

@tabascosauz sure sorry u can argue like that, my reference where those boards with 16 Phase VRM Designs with PowIRStages, i think ill be happy with also because of the price i paid, got it "new" for 110 bucks



Valantar said:


> Is all-core OCing on Zen3 really the best idea, performance wise? It's been a while since I was reading up on this, but back then people were reporting better results with a combination of increasing PBO limits and negative curve optimizer to allow for higher boosting (both ST and MT), rather than setting a single-all-core clock (losing ST performance but possibly gaining MT). Of course the methods needed to optimize this are very different and a bit more complicated, but it's still doable.


i did do PBO overclocking, but no matter what i did, when PBO clocked all core to 4.65ghz at PTT210 TDC 145 and EDC 190 the voltages where up to 1.35 to 1.4v taking up to 200 watt powerpackage even i had CurveOptimizer already at -20
If i set the offset voltage too high the cores startet to drift in the clock speeds. i played already with different TDC and EDC Values.
Now i am at 4.6ghz allcore at 1.16v and with just 130watts to max 145
Sure i dont have single core boost now but im okay with that not seeing like 1.5v boost volts just for 10percent more single core performance. ALso because i most likely play in 4k resolutions. (i know ram tuning doesnt make sense at those resolutions but i just like tuning and getting some extra for free. CPU wise ill clock a bit higher later ons but starting on the RAM first)


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## tabascosauz (Nov 8, 2021)

schidddy said:


> @tabascosauz sure sorry u can argue like that, my reference where those boards with 16 Phase VRM Designs with PowIRStages, i think ill be happy with also because of the price i paid, got it "new" for 110 bucks



Some of those VRMs have good performance in other metrics that make them "good". In terms of raw capacity, all of them are ridiculously overkill x 10.

Even simple 8 phase Vcore VRM with 50A DrMOS and a good heatsink will handle a mildly OC'd 5950X. It's not Intel. You will run out of cooling for your CPU before you run out of VRM.


----------



## Valantar (Nov 8, 2021)

schidddy said:


> @tabascosauz sure sorry u can argue like that, my reference where those boards with 16 Phase VRM Designs with PowIRStages, i think ill be happy with also because of the price i paid, got it "new" for 110 bucks
> 
> 
> i did do PBO overclocking, but no matter what i did, when PBO clocked all core to 4.65ghz at PTT210 TDC 145 and EDC 190 the voltages where up to 1.35 to 1.4v taking up to 200 watt powerpackage even i had CurveOptimizer already at -20
> ...


If you want to keep overall power consumption down you can just limit PPT, TDC and EDC, and the CPU should regulate itself within those parameters for optimal performance. It's kind of a given that it will use as much power as it is allowed to when boosting as long as thermals and power delivery can keep up. Also, remember that software-reported voltages for Zen2/3 when boosting are in no way equal to setting a similar voltage manually - the chip regulates the voltages dynamically as needed, and there is a dedicated silicon protection portion of the chip to ensure that these settings don't exceed what AMD considers safe, even when using PBO (it balances thermals, power draw and voltages to minimize leakage and electromigration). Pretty much every reliable source I've seen cover this essentially says "let the chip regulate its own voltages, it will look high but that's normal and safe". If I were you, I would attempt those previous settings with lowered PPT/TDC/EDC and compare them to your current OC results. For my 5800X, I'm currently running -10 all-core CO and +100 PBO at 120/95/120, and I'm seeing 4.95GHz short ST bursts, 4.85+ sustained ST, and 4.7-4.8 sustained MT depending on the load (power viruses might drop to 4.4-4.6, but I don't consider those relevant for real-world performance). Given that 2-CCD CPUs have much lower thermal density than the 5800X you should be able to boost higher at lower power levels as you'll have less leakage current, but of course you'll likely need higher total power limits than me simply due to the higher core count.


----------



## schidddy (Nov 8, 2021)

@Valantar sure i did that but when i decreased the different PTT TDC and EDC values, i just saw the frequencies dropping and using less power, but the voltages where still at that high ranges. my MT scores are basically the same manual compared to PBO at 210/145/190 and boosting to allcore 4.65ghz but at a power consumption off rougly 210 watts compared 4.6ghz manual oc. I tried lowering all those values, also different to each other but i just saw decreasing frequencies still at very high power consumption. Thats because PBO uses much higher Voltage tables to be sure everyone are getting those frequencies. PBO is some kind of bruteforce attack for me  i know i cant trust sensored voltages on Zen3 but i can trust the power/consumption readings at load. R23 gives mit 23k points with manual @46 and pbo gives me like 300 points more on MT.  I get 210watts on MT and PBO and 140watts at manual
At ST pbo gives me roughly 10% more performance thats quiet cool but as i said at voltages i dont like to see even AMD says its actually save haha.
Also temperatures are alot lower 60degrees on manual oc then 81 at PBO on full load
Edit, if i sett PTT to something like 150 or 160, my allcore freq drops to 4.3ghz something like that giving me lower r23score and still higher power consumption then manual 46x


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 8, 2021)

@Taraquin no errors until the 10th run where i got 2,unsure where to go from here 


@ta


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## Valantar (Nov 8, 2021)

schidddy said:


> @Valantar sure i did that but when i decreased the different PTT TDC and EDC values, i just saw the frequencies dropping and using less power, but the voltages where still at that high ranges. my MT scores are basically the same manual compared to PBO at 210/145/190 and boosting to allcore 4.65ghz but at a power consumption off rougly 210 watts compared 4.6ghz manual oc. I tried lowering all those values, also different to each other but i just saw decreasing frequencies still at very high power consumption. Thats because PBO uses much higher Voltage tables to be sure everyone are getting those frequencies. PBO is some kind of bruteforce attack for me  i know i cant trust sensored voltages on Zen3 but i can trust the power/consumption readings at load. R23 gives mit 23k points with manual @46 and pbo gives me like 300 points more on MT.  I get 210watts on MT and PBO and 140watts at manual
> At ST pbo gives me roughly 10% more performance thats quiet cool but as i said at voltages i dont like to see even AMD says its actually save haha.
> Also temperatures are alot lower 60degrees on manual oc then 81 at PBO on full load
> Edit, if i sett PTT to something like 150 or 160, my allcore freq drops to 4.3ghz something like that giving me lower r23score and still higher power consumption then manual 46x


Wow, that's weird. I've seen reports of manual OCs being more efficient at MT (though typically at relatively low clocks), but never this extreme. Sounds like your chip is indeed for some reason going quite overboard on its PBO voltages - makes me wonder whether this is determined by something hard-coded into the chip, its microcode, the motherboard/VRM, or some combination of these. It does indeed sound like your case is one where manual OC makes much more sense.


----------



## Ibizadr (Nov 8, 2021)

Anyone here With gskill f4-3600c16d-16gtz.? I'm struggle with this ram kit. With 2x8gb with xmp enable give me errors on occt and memtest, so I put only one at time for testing rams and nothing appear to be bad, when I put the second stick throw errors, system runs fine without whea errors or reboots. The cause of this its my mobo? I'm with last agesa 1.2.0.3c and the previous kit at 3200 runs fine at 3333 without errors and this kit give errors even with xmp enable. Can somebody have a answer for this weird thing?


----------



## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 8, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> @Taraquin no errors until the 10th run where i got 2,unsure where to go from here
> View attachment 224352@ta











						tRFC mini
					

TM5 Error Description   ,TM5 Errors Decyphered,SOURCE 1usmus_V3,Error Type,Error Description ERROR #0,RefreshStable 0Mb,Voltage cutoff choke, suspect tRRD & tWTR Nearly always tRRD & tWTR but can also be too low tRP  or tiny bit too low tRC (if user used > -3 on tRC)  Start by adding VDIMM 6x Err...




					docs.google.com
				



There's a TM5 Error Description sheet in this document. Focus on the 0 error first.



Ibizadr said:


> Anyone here With gskill f4-3600c16d-16gtz.? I'm struggle with this ram kit. With 2x8gb with xmp enable give me errors on occt and memtest, so I put only one at time for testing rams and nothing appear to be bad, when I put the second stick throw errors, system runs fine without whea errors or reboots. The cause of this its my mobo? I'm with last agesa 1.2.0.3c and the previous kit at 3200 runs fine at 3333 without errors and this kit give errors even with xmp enable. Can somebody have a answer for this weird thing?


It is not the motherboard. Can you post a screenshot of the latest ZenTimings with both modules inserted and XMP on?









						ZenTimings
					

ZenTimings is a simple and lightweight app for monitoring memory timings on Ryzen platform.




					zentimings.protonrom.com


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## Ibizadr (Nov 8, 2021)

rares495 said:


> tRFC mini
> 
> 
> TM5 Error Description   ,TM5 Errors Decyphered,SOURCE 1usmus_V3,Error Type,Error Description ERROR #0,RefreshStable 0Mb,Voltage cutoff choke, suspect tRRD & tWTR Nearly always tRRD & tWTR but can also be too low tRP  or tiny bit too low tRC (if user used > -3 on tRC)  Start by adding VDIMM 6x Err...
> ...


This is what a have now only change voltage trfc and trc. if you want original xmp i can give you too. i raise voltage to see if my errors passed aways but no lucky with more vdimm voltage


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## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 8, 2021)

Ibizadr said:


> This is what a have now only change voltage trfc and trc. if you want original xmp i can give you too. i raise voltage to see if my errors passed aways but no lucky with more vdimm voltage


Timings are ok. Try setting VSOC to 1.1V manually, VDDG IOD to 1.05V and VDDG CCD to 1V. If there's a setting for CLDO VDDP, raise that to 1.1V


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## Ibizadr (Nov 8, 2021)

rares495 said:


> Timings are ok. Try setting VSOC to 1.1V manually, VDDG IOD to 1.05V and VDDG CCD to 1V. If there's a setting for CLDO VDDP, raise that to 1.1V


I try that and I will do some tests to see if it works



rares495 said:


> Timings are ok. Try setting VSOC to 1.1V manually, VDDG IOD to 1.05V and VDDG CCD to 1V. If there's a setting for CLDO VDDP, raise that to 1.1V


After 1min of occt memory test throw errors


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## Taraquin (Nov 8, 2021)

schidddy said:


> okay @tabascosauz  i guess i stay with the board, do you guys think i run into problems clocking the CPU to 4.8 to 4.9ghz if needed? i know it as an inferior VRM design but i am actually more likely to overclock efficiently then bruteforce method. Now im actually very fine with manual oc all@46 at 1.16v under load
> @Taraquin ill try that this evening, thank you. Do you think i am in range with the RAM Volts with that values or do i need to set up? Its set to 1.45v hw info showing 1.47v
> 
> greetings


1.45V is good for my suggestions 



Dar1usElite said:


> @Taraquin no errors until the 10th run where i got 2,unsure where to go from here
> View attachment 224352@ta


Error 0 is usually too low voltage on ram. Try upping by 0.02V, usually fixes it. 15 can be several things, tRFC maybe, but that can often be improved by a bit more volt.



Ibizadr said:


> Anyone here With gskill f4-3600c16d-16gtz.? I'm struggle with this ram kit. With 2x8gb with xmp enable give me errors on occt and memtest, so I put only one at time for testing rams and nothing appear to be bad, when I put the second stick throw errors, system runs fine without whea errors or reboots. The cause of this its my mobo? I'm with last agesa 1.2.0.3c and the previous kit at 3200 runs fine at 3333 without errors and this kit give errors even with xmp enable. Can somebody have a answer for this weird thing?


Is the ram in the A2 and B2-slot? Usually this is a problem uf A1-B1 is used as they are the worst slots.


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## Ibizadr (Nov 8, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> 1.45V is good for my suggestions
> 
> 
> Error 0 is usually too low voltage on ram. Try upping by 0.02V, usually fixes it. 15 can be several things, tRFC maybe, but that can often be improved by a bit more volt.
> ...


No. they are on a2 and b2. It's weird need to test it without xmp to see if I got errors.


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## schidddy (Nov 8, 2021)

@Valantar mostly what i see is that u defintly get better more efficient results if u tend to clock your cpu at lower speads like 4.5 or 4.6ghz allcore. I am defintly lucky with 4.6ghz at 1.16v under full load, but i see that there is one core not willing to clock higher with slight increased voltage. 4.7ghz is not stable even at 1.25v, maybe needs as high as 1.3v and then the efficency is already getting lost and i get near the power consumption like using pbo. i think pbo always uses high voltages on all cores to maintain high boost posibilty on as much as cores as possible if the best cores are beeing used by some tasks and as i said to be able to get highest boosts for every user as the silicones are never the same


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## Taraquin (Nov 8, 2021)

schidddy said:


> @Valantar mostly what i see is that u defintly get better more efficient results if u tend to clock your cpu at lower speads like 4.5 or 4.6ghz allcore. I am defintly lucky with 4.6ghz at 1.16v under full load, but i see that there is one core not willing to clock higher with slight increased voltage. 4.7ghz is not stable even at 1.25v, maybe needs as high as 1.3v and then the efficency is already getting lost and i get near the power consumption like using pbo. i think pbo always uses high voltages on all cores to maintain high boost posibilty on as much as cores as possible if the best cores are beeing used by some tasks and as i said to be able to get highest boosts for every user as the silicones are never the same


Still if you tune your curve optimizer max it will generally beat allcore OC. 

Here is my scores:
4.4@1.05V 60-65W load
4.5@1.09V 65-70W load
4.6@1.15V 75-80W load
4.7@1.23V 90-100W load
4.8@1.32V 115-125W+ load

Curve optimizer +200 pbo and -30x4/-29x2
4.85@1.34V single core
4.57-4.63@1.16-1.17V@76W

In idle temps with PBO+CO is 40-45C and voltage 0.83-0.85V.

The most comparable 4.6GHz is 45-50W idle and 1.15V.

As you see CO+PBO is superior to allcore OC since you get better single core at lower temp/consumption and very low temp/consumption in idle.


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## schidddy (Nov 8, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Trc 48, tRFC 264, 272 or 280, twr 16, trtp 8, wtrs 4, wtrl 8 or 10, scl 4 on both. Try that, it should improve your scores quite a bit.


slightly better read speeds and more or less same latency, asking myself if i should use this setting as my daily or go for cl15 or even 14.. but as rares495 wrote i need at least 1.5 to 1.55v for that, questions ist that safe for daily rig
i'm testing the settings now on memtest64, temps are fine with additional fan at 42c

edit on the pbo post:
i can lower my pbo allcore as much minus 25 but it wont change much on the volts, it went down from 1.4v allcore 4.6ghz to 1.35v at 4.65ghz allcore pbo from CO zero to CO minus 25allcore maybe the bios is or was bugged as i used F36e and this bios also caused the problem wih the vddp and vddg settings not sticking. i think i have to give it a try again on the older bios again. Are you using any offset? or just voltage on auto and curve optimizer


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## Taraquin (Nov 8, 2021)

schidddy said:


> slightly better read speeds and more or less same latency, asking myself if i should use this setting as my daily or go for cl15 or even 14.. but as rares495 wrote i need at least 1.5 to 1.55v for that, questions ist that safe for daily rig
> i'm testing the settings now on memtest64, temps are fine with additional fan at 42c
> 
> edit on the pbo post:
> i can lower my pbo allcore as much minus 25 but it wont change much on the volts, it went down from 1.4v allcore 4.6ghz to 1.35v at 4.65ghz allcore pbo from CO zero to CO minus 25allcore maybe the bios is or was bugged as i used F36e and this bios also caused the problem wih the vddp and vddg settings not sticking. i think i have to give it a try again on the older bios again. Are you using any offset? or just voltage on auto and curve optimizer


I don't use offset, just plain +200 pbo and -30 on 4 cores and -29 on 2. I recently changed it to +50 and -30 allcore since I like silence and +200 PBO makes CPU cooler aggressive.


----------



## schidddy (Nov 8, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> I don't use offset, just plain +200 pbo and -30 on 4 cores and -29 on 2. I recently changed it to +50 and -30 allcore since I like silence and +200 PBO makes CPU cooler aggressive.


okay, first i run some tests for the mem to get it stable and use it some days on daily average tasks to avoid running into RAM problems while tuning on the CPU, then i try pbo again.
Any thoughts on running 1.55v on b-die DR for daily use?


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 8, 2021)

schidddy said:


> okay, first i run some tests for the mem to get it stable and use it some days on daily average tasks to avoid running into RAM problems while tuning on the CPU, then i try pbo again.
> Any thoughts on running 1.55v on b-die DR for daily use?



1.55V is fine if you keep it cool. Which means a lot of airflow. Either you're running a hurricane through your case with extremely powerful fans, or have a push-pull downdraft cooler like me, or have dedicated ghetto fans for memory, or have your B-die waterblocked.

Why do you need 1.55V for 3800CL16 though? Even CL15 shouldn't need 1.55V.



Ibizadr said:


> No. they are on a2 and b2. It's weird need to test it without xmp to see if I got errors.



Turn on Geardown. Or drop to 2T.

You're never going to get anywhere by bruteforcing 1T no GDM with just VDIMM.


----------



## schidddy (Nov 8, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> 1.55V is fine if you keep it cool. Which means a lot of airflow. Either you're running a hurricane through your case with extremely powerful fans, or have a push-pull downdraft cooler like me, or have dedicated ghetto fans for memory, or have your B-die waterblocked.
> 
> Why do you need 1.55V for 3800CL16 though? Even CL15 shouldn't need 1.55V.
> 
> ...


i ment 1.55 for further experimentin lowering the timings, running the above setting at 1.45 now.
I got about 14fans in my Corsair 900D on Top 3x 140mm just above the RAMs and there is a little 60mm Fan on the grahpics card blowing directly on the DIMMs 
no hurricane all silent keeping the water still on a very low delta


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 8, 2021)

schidddy said:


> okay, first i run some tests for the mem to get it stable and use it some days on daily average tasks to avoid running into RAM problems while tuning on the CPU, then i try pbo again.
> Any thoughts on running 1.55v on b-die DR for daily use?


If you have good cooling on them, a fan directly above that can be fine. Some airflow in your rig is nice to have.



Ibizadr said:


> No. they are on a2 and b2. It's weird need to test it without xmp to see if I got errors.


1T and no gdm often needs adjusting cad etc. 2T is my general advice. Gdm for those who like even numbers


----------



## purecain (Nov 8, 2021)

T             



This is what i have stable for now. I havnt tried overclocking the cores individually yet, still working out which are the best cores.


----------



## Ibizadr (Nov 8, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Turn on Geardown.
> 
> You're never going to get anywhere by bruteforcing 1T no GDM with just VDIMM.



This is what  I need to got it without errors. Thanks now it runs fine, it's time to some oc since this is a good kit


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 8, 2021)

purecain said:


> T
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What voltage on ram? If you are at 1.45V try 16 16 16 ras 32 rc 48 rrds 4 faw 16 wtrs 4 wtrl 10 rfc 272 rdrdscl 4 wrwrscl 4 rtp 8 rdwr 10 wrrd 3. If you are below 1.45V try increasing to 1.45V.

Procodt 43 or 48, 53 is too high. Set vddp to 880mv, 1098 is way too high.


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## Ibizadr (Nov 9, 2021)

Hey guys thanks for your help now they run without errors on an 30min occt. I got it at 3800 CL18 but I think I can get it to CL16.
Here some ss of my timmings now and Aida benchmark. I will go to improve it and give updates


----------



## Mussels (Nov 9, 2021)

schidddy said:


> okay @tabascosauz  i guess i stay with the board, do you guys think i run into problems clocking the CPU to 4.8 to 4.9ghz if needed? i know it as an inferior VRM design but i am actually more likely to overclock efficiently then bruteforce method. Now im actually very fine with manual oc all@46 at 1.16v under load
> @Taraquin ill try that this evening, thank you. Do you think i am in range with the RAM Volts with that values or do i need to set up? Its set to 1.45v hw info showing 1.47v
> 
> greetings


I think 4.7 is considered the ceiling for all core, with higher only achieved by PBO boosting lower core counts

If you can get a low voltage OC at 4.7, it's definitely worth considering. Seeing how i get 4.4-5.05 depending on PBO settings and amount of cores loaded, it comes down to whether you need that little bit of extra ST, or more MT performance.


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## Taraquin (Nov 9, 2021)

Ibizadr said:


> Hey guys thanks for your help now they run without errors on an 30min occt. I got it at 3800 CL18 but I think I can get it to CL16.
> Here some ss of my timmings now and Aida benchmark. I will go to improve it and give updates


Keep 1.45V dimm, try 16 16 16 ras 32 rc 48 rrds 4 rrdl 6 faw 16 wtrs 4 wtrl 8 or 10 rfc 280 or 272 wr 16 rtp 8 rdrd/wrwrscl 4 cwl 16 rest on auto

Set ccd volt and vddp to 900mv, iod to 1020mv. I'm quite sure that will work  

These are lax timings that should work on most B-die.


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## han32 (Nov 9, 2021)

for daily only 1.45v and everything auto


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 9, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Error 0 is usually too low voltage on ram. Try upping by 0.02V, usually fixes it. 15 can be several things, tRFC maybe, but that can often be improved by a bit more volt.


whats the maximum safe voltage i can go to? i don't want to go too high. ive heard 1.5v, ill go up by 0.02 and see how it goes


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 9, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> whats the maximum safe voltage i can go to? i don't want to go too high. ive heard 1.5v, ill go up by 0.02 and see how it goes


1.45V on B-die is considered totally safe. 1.5V is also considered safe, but you must have some airflow if you overclock\tweak a lot at 1.5V or it will overheat and get errors. B-die is very temp sensitive once tweaked\OCed and can throw error at below 50C. 50C can`t kill the ram so temp itself is not the issue.


----------



## Dar1usElite (Nov 9, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> 1.45V on B-die is considered totally safe. 1.5V is also considered safe, but you must have some airflow if you overclock\tweak a lot at 1.5V or it will overheat and get errors. B-die is very temp sensitive once tweaked\OCed and can throw error at below 50C. 50C can`t kill the ram so temp itself is not the issue.


Alright cool its running atm. It spat 2 errors at me but again I didn't launch it in admin mode, unsure why this happens but ‍. Dram temps are at about 55c according to hwinfo.
This is hynix djr though
Edit :I went out and came back and it's currently on its 8th run and given 1 error with code 13


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 9, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> Alright cool its running atm. It spat 2 errors at me but again I didn't launch it in admin mode, unsure why this happens but ‍. Dram temps are at about 55c according to hwinfo.
> This is hynix djr though
> Edit :I went out and came back and it's currently on its 8th run and given 1 error with code 13


I'm not sure how DJR handles heat. I know B-die and D-die is sensitive, rev E don't care. Post a zentimings screenshot? Error 13 can be too little voltage.


----------



## Dar1usElite (Nov 9, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> I'm not sure how DJR handles heat. I know B-die and D-die is sensitive, rev E don't care. Post a zentimings screenshot? Error 13 can be too little voltage.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 9, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> View attachment 224510


Did you get less errors after increasing voltage? Try upping to 1.48V.


----------



## Dar1usElite (Nov 9, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Did you get less errors after increasing voltage? Try upping to 1.48V.


i think i only got the 1 error code 13 over 11 runs, previously i had 2. I was a little concerned though about the ram temps as one dimm was at 59c


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## Taraquin (Nov 9, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> i think i only got the 1 error code 13 over 11 runs, previously i had 2. I was a little concerned though about the ram temps as one dimm was at 59c


Try running 1.42V, see if that does the same? Maybe just one timing is a bit off.


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 10, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Try running 1.42V, see if that does the same? Maybe just one timing is a bit off.


so i ran it overnight with 20 runs. got 8 errors, i forgot to screenshot it but most were error 0, one error 5 and an error 14 that i seen. Max ram temp was 54c
going to retry at 1.47v with a fan on the ram to see if its temp related



Dar1usElite said:


> so i ran it overnight with 20 runs. got 8 errors, i forgot to screenshot it but most were error 0, one error 5 and an error 14 that i seen. Max ram temp was 54c
> going to retry at 1.47v with a fan on the ram to see if its temp related


@Taraquin so i reran the test twice, once with no fan on the ram and once with a fan on it. (attached is a photo of the run with the fan OFF).
1.47v both times.
second run got 1 error 4 and that was it so it seems heat makes it worse but doesn't solve it. 




_not sure why it added to the last post but yeah._


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## Mussels (Nov 10, 2021)

Derpius: TPU auto merges posts from the same author if no one else has posted to reduce clutter/spam


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 10, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Derpius: TPU auto merges posts from the same author if no one else has posted to reduce clutter/spam


makes sense Muffles


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## Taraquin (Nov 10, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> so i ran it overnight with 20 runs. got 8 errors, i forgot to screenshot it but most were error 0, one error 5 and an error 14 that i seen. Max ram temp was 54c
> going to retry at 1.47v with a fan on the ram to see if its temp related
> 
> 
> ...


Try tRAS 40, tRC 62 and tRFC 528.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 10, 2021)

@Taraquin think BZ mentioned a few times that both Rev.E and Rev.B can be temp sensitive. I'm guessing it usually only shows at the higher end, and not nearly to the extremes as B-die, but still.

Though honestly nowadays I'm starting to feel as if everything should be treated with caution. Initially thought DJR wasn't, then someone said it was, and now I'm wondering if CJR is as well.


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 10, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Try tRAS 40, tRC 62 and tRFC 528.







i actually got even more errors that time


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## Taraquin (Nov 10, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> View attachment 224699
> 
> i actually got even more errors that time


First try clkdrvstr 40 20 30 24. If that doesn't improve things try trrds 6, tfaw 24, reset to the previous trfc, trc and tras.


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 11, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> First try clkdrvstr 40 20 30 24. If that doesn't improve things try trrds 6, tfaw 24, reset to the previous trfc, trc and tras.







so i did the first change and it still had errors, i did then second but had to stop after 10 so i could use the pc and still had 2 errors




im beginning to think either my cpu or my ram just cant do 3800/1900


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## tabascosauz (Nov 11, 2021)

@Dar1usElite CJR and DJR are kinda similar but imo should not push more than 1.45V through CJR (DJR XMPs up to 1.6V but it's much newer and much stronger). I'm 90% sure that if you look at the stickers on the DIMMs, the string above the barcode should end in 8821C so CJR. DJR would be like 8820D.

On my CJR (dual rank 2x16GB 3600 17-19-19 Trident RGB) there was some benefit running up to 1.4V, but past that I couldn't get CL16 stable at 3800 no matter what VDIMM. 3733 worked fine at 1.37/1.38V or so - it was my 3700X that was shit.

But if your CPU is the problem, TM5 can sometimes pick up IF errors, but you should also be seeing WHEA Logger events for Bus/Interconnect at the same time.

Even if it's not notorious for temp sensitivity, best to get some airflow over those DIMMs. 55C+ is hot, I only managed to do that with the CJR by intentionally hotboxing it in the NCASE with intentionally bad airflow


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## Durvelle27 (Nov 11, 2021)

3800/1900 on my 5800X with some cheap RAM


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## freeagent (Nov 11, 2021)

VSOC looks a little low, maybe try 1.125-1.15, and if SOC has LLC I use lvl3.. I don't use llc on vcore though.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 11, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> View attachment 224795
> 
> so i did the first change and it still had errors, i did then second but had to stop after 10 so i could use the pc and still had 2 errors
> View attachment 224796
> ...


Try the following: Set ram volt to 1.4V, set GDM off and enable 2T. Set tCL to 17.


----------



## Dar1usElite (Nov 11, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> @Dar1usElite CJR and DJR are kinda similar but imo should not push more than 1.45V through CJR (DJR XMPs up to 1.6V but it's much newer and much stronger). I'm 90% sure that if you look at the stickers on the DIMMs, the string above the barcode should end in 8821C so CJR. DJR would be like 8820D.
> 
> On my CJR (dual rank 2x16GB 3600 17-19-19 Trident RGB) there was some benefit running up to 1.4V, but past that I couldn't get CL16 stable at 3800 no matter what VDIMM. 3733 worked fine at 1.37/1.38V or so - it was my 3700X that was shit.
> 
> ...


It's hynix d-die according to thaiphoon burner. It's got a fan directly in front of it and temps are maxing at around 37c with 1.48v.



freeagent said:


> VSOC looks a little low, maybe try 1.125-1.15, and if SOC has LLC I use lvl3.. I don't use llc on vcore though.


Im following the instructions taraquin has said to a tee. I use llc on the vcore for when I'm over clocking but it shouldn't affect the ram



Taraquin said:


> Try the following: Set ram volt to 1.4V, set GDM off and enable 2T. Set tCL to 17.


I'll give that a crack.


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## Taraquin (Nov 11, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> It's hynix d-die according to thaiphoon burner. It's got a fan directly in front of it and temps are maxing at around 37c with 1.48v.
> 
> 
> Im following the instructions taraquin has said to a tee. I use llc on the vcore for when I'm over clocking but it shouldn't affect the ram
> ...


On rare occations a higher soc and iod voltage can be needed, but generally they don't cause specific errors in TM5, more like general instability. I would be surprised if higher voltage resolves this. 

If this doesn't fix it try setting first timings to 18 22 22 22 40 and all others on auto, if that resolves errors then some subs are problematic.


----------



## Dar1usElite (Nov 11, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> On rare occations a higher soc and iod voltage can be needed, but generally they don't cause specific errors in TM5, more like general instability. I would be surprised if higher voltage resolves this.
> 
> If this doesn't fix it try setting first timings to 18 22 22 22 40 and all others on auto, if that resolves errors then some subs are problematic.


And leave the voltages as they are?

At this point im genuinely contemplating tossing this kit and getting a good bdie kit. It seems the cpu can do 1900 if fine but the ram won't, I haven't had a single crash or blue screen since setting the iod and soc voltages


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## Taraquin (Nov 11, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> And leave the voltages as they are?
> 
> At this point im genuinely contemplating tossing this kit and getting a good bdie kit. It seems the cpu can do 1900 if fine but the ram won't, I haven't had a single crash or blue screen since setting the iod and soc voltages


Leave voltages etc as is  B-die is easier to work with, but 32gb dual rank is very expensive.


----------



## Dar1usElite (Nov 11, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Leave voltages etc as is  B-die is easier to work with, but 32gb dual rank is very expensive.


Alright it's currently running the test with the 2t and gdm disabled. We'll see how that goes overnight as it's 1am here

ran the test overnight got 1 error 3


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## Taraquin (Nov 11, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> Alright it's currently running the test with the 2t and gdm disabled. We'll see how that goes overnight as it's 1am here
> 
> ran the test overnight got 1 error 3


It might be tCL that is the issue then. You might be able to tighten other timings like tRC and tRFC which affect gaming a great deal more than tCL


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## tabascosauz (Nov 11, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> It's hynix d-die according to thaiphoon burner. It's got a fan directly in front of it and temps are maxing at around 37c with 1.48v.
> 
> Im following the instructions taraquin has said to a tee. I use llc on the vcore for when I'm over clocking but it shouldn't affect the ram
> 
> I'll give that a crack.



It's not DJR until you check the stickers. DJR is usually reserved for >4000, Thaiphoon loves misidentifying ICs and 3600 16-19-19 / 3600 17-19-19 is one of the notorious examples (other is Samsung C as B-die). If it's 8821C, it's not DJR no matter what Thaiphoon says. It can only make an educated guess based on what it sees programmed in SPD.

Most of the time CJR falls to 17-19-19 XMP by 3733, and 18-22-22 by 4000. Might be some truth in that. Seems to a be a quirk of CJR that it can bench a lot of different configs (3800 16-19-19, 3600 16-18-18) that will still never pass stress testing no matter what.


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## Taraquin (Nov 11, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> It's not DJR until you check the stickers. DJR is usually reserved for >4000, Thaiphoon loves misidentifying ICs and 3600 16-19-19 / 3600 17-19-19 is one of the notorious examples (other is Samsung C as B-die). If it's 8821C, it's not DJR no matter what Thaiphoon says. It can only make an educated guess based on what it sees programmed in SPD.
> 
> Most of the time CJR falls to 17-19-19 XMP by 3733, and 18-22-22 by 4000. Might be some truth in that. Seems to a be a quirk of CJR that it can bench a lot of different configs (3800 16-19-19, 3600 16-18-18) that will still never pass stress testing no matter what.


I have most experience with B-die, rev E, Samsung C/D and Hynix A. If you get rare errors in stresstest but it's stable in gaming etc I would stick with it


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 12, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> I have most experience with B-die, rev E, Samsung C/D and Hynix A. If you get rare errors in stresstest but it's stable in gaming etc I would stick with it


Yeah I'll probably end up doing that, I'll see how the next few tests go.


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## Taraquin (Nov 12, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> Yeah I'll probably end up doing that, I'll see how the next few tests go.


If you only get rare errors and all else is stable try lowering tRFC. Try 496, 480, 464, 448 or 432, find lowest that boots and do a short stability test. If that works try tRCD/tRP 21 and lower tRC by 1 if that works, the try 2 lower and tRC 2 lower if 1 works, tRRDS 4 and tFAW 16 is next in line, then tRDWR 11. The rest of the timings matter very little.


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 12, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> If you only get rare errors and all else is stable try lowering tRFC. Try 496, 480, 464, 448 or 432, find lowest that boots and do a short stability test. If that works try tRCD/tRP 21 and lower tRC by 1 if that works, the try 2 lower and tRC 2 lower if 1 works, tRRDS 4 and tFAW 16 is next in line, then tRDWR 11. The rest of the timings matter very little.


Should I do that now or try the primary settings and everything on auto first?


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## Taraquin (Nov 12, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> Should I do that now or try the primary settings and everything on auto first?


If you only get 1 to 2 errors in TM5 usmus 25 tests then keep you you have and test one by one. Start with tRFC as it impacts gaming the most. If you are lucky with bin you might do 432. Lowering tRFC by 80 can give you 1-3% performance by itself. TRCD/tRP and tRC can be lowered all at the same time by one. Try 21, 21, 59 first, then 20, 20, 58 etc, if lucky 19, 19, 57 might work, tRRDS and tFAW must be lowered together as tFAW=tRRDS x 4. TRDWR is half tRCDRD +1 or 2 on dual rank, if you can do tRCD/tRP 20 try tRDWR 11.

It takes time, but if you are patient and for instance end up with tRFC 448, tCRD etc 20 20 58 and tRRDS/tFAW 4/16 I think that should give you atleast 5% performance.

Info on tRFC:


			https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/attachments/trfc-v21-png.508862/
		


If you really have DJR you should be able to do 432 or 448 if binning is avg. If it's CJR which tabasco and I suspect 480 or 496 is avg. 

However I had a good bin Micron rev E, it's supposed to do 560 on 3733, but it's rock solid at 522, so if you are lucky you might do better.


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 12, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> If you only get 1 to 2 errors in TM5 usmus 25 tests then keep you you have and test one by one. Start with tRFC as it impacts gaming the most. If you are lucky with bin you might do 432. Lowering tRFC by 80 can give you 1-3% performance by itself. TRCD/tRP and tRC can be lowered all at the same time by one. Try 21, 21, 59 first, then 20, 20, 58 etc, if lucky 19, 19, 57 might work, tRRDS and tFAW must be lowered together as tFAW=tRRDS x 4. TRDWR is half tRCDRD +1 or 2 on dual rank, if you can do tRCD/tRP 20 try tRDWR 11.
> 
> It takes time, but if you are patient and for instance end up with tRFC 448, tCRD etc 20 20 58 and tRRDS/tFAW 4/16 I think that should give you atleast 5% performance.
> 
> ...


it says hynix d-die in thaiphoon burner so i assumed it was djr.


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## Taraquin (Nov 12, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> it says hynix d-die in thaiphoon burner so i assumed it was djr.


Yeah, but sometimes thaiphoon is inaccurate. It's usually right, but I've seen it miss a few times.


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 12, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Yeah, but sometimes thaiphoon is inaccurate. It's usually right, but I've seen it miss a few times.


Do I just check the sticker on the dimm itself as advised by Tabasco?

@tabascosauz


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 12, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> Do I just check the sticker on the dimm itself as advised by Tabasco?
> 
> @tabascosauz View attachment 224903


You have CJR. 8820C is CJR. https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/about-buying-ram-thats-not-listed-in-qvl.283727/

This probably explains the problems with tCL. My recommendations for tRFC is then try 496, 480 or 464.


----------



## Dar1usElite (Nov 12, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> You have CJR. 8820C is CJR. https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/about-buying-ram-thats-not-listed-in-qvl.283727/
> 
> This probably explains the problems with tCL. My recommendations for tRFC is then try 496, 480 or 464.


I'll try that after. I did what you said with auto on everything and 18 22 22 22 40 and it's 6 runs in @ 1.4v and no errors yet

TRFC of like 666 on auto though
TFAW 40, tRC 89, trrds/l 8/11.. I'll post a zen timings screenshot if it passes.


----------



## Valantar (Nov 12, 2021)

I'm starting to zero in on my final RAM settings now. Finished 20 runs of TM5 1usmus with no errors.



This is at 1.46V now, after previously running 1.48. (I seem to remember 1.45 not being stable at these or slightly looser settings, though there have been so many changes over the past weeks it's hard to keep track!) With the fan I put over the RAM and VRMs chugging along inaudibly the RAM barely passes 40 degrees under load. My AIDA64 latency readings are creeping down towards the 60ns mark as well, pretty happy with that (currently running way faster than my not-quite-stable 4000 settings.

Is it worth trying to reduce tRFC any more at 1.46V, or should I leave it at this?


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 12, 2021)

Valantar said:


> I'm starting to zero in on my final RAM settings now. Finished 20 runs of TM5 1usmus with no errors.
> View attachment 224916
> This is at 1.46V now, after previously running 1.48. (I seem to remember 1.45 not being stable at these or slightly looser settings, though there have been so many changes over the past weeks it's hard to keep track!) With the fan I put over the RAM and VRMs chugging along inaudibly the RAM barely passes 40 degrees under load. My AIDA64 latency readings are creeping down towards the 60ns mark as well, pretty happy with that (currently running way faster than my not-quite-stable 4000 settings.
> 
> Is it worth trying to reduce tRFC any more at 1.46V, or should I leave it at this?


You can't go much lower. Next step is 256, that needs more voltage. For 256 you probably need 1.48-1.5V. For 240 you need around 1.55V.



Dar1usElite said:


> I'll try that after. I did what you said with auto on everything and 18 22 22 22 40 and it's 6 runs in @ 1.4v and no errors yet
> 
> TRFC of like 666 on auto though
> TFAW 40, tRC 89, trrds/l 8/11.. I'll post a zen timings screenshot if it passes.


If it works then start lowering timings one by one, prioritize tRFC, tRC, tRRDS/L and tFAW in pair, tWR and tRTP in pair.


----------



## Valantar (Nov 12, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> You can't go much lower. Next step is 256, that needs more voltage. For 256 you probably need 1.48-1.5V. For 240 you need around 1.55V.


Sounds like a good place to leave things then  Next up: Curve Optimizer testing!

Edit: well that crashed fast. I don't think my CPU likes my +100 PBO offset at -30 CO, as it reset almost immediately after booting. Can't find anything to identify the core responsible in the Event Log either. IIRC I wasn't running any PBO offset when I tested -30 previously. Guess I'll have to start a bit more conservatively 

Edit2: So, am I right in thinking WHEA-Logger error 18 "Processor APIC ID" identifies the core that had an error? If so, it looks like my "best" cores are the least tolerant of undervolting. Kind of makes sense in a way.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 12, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Sounds like a good place to leave things then  Next up: Curve Optimizer testing!
> 
> Edit: well that crashed fast. I don't think my CPU likes my +100 PBO offset at -30 CO, as it reset almost immediately after booting. Can't find anything to identify the core responsible in the Event Log either. IIRC I wasn't running any PBO offset when I tested -30 previously. Guess I'll have to start a bit more conservatively
> 
> Edit2: So, am I right in thinking WHEA-Logger error 18 "Processor APIC ID" identifies the core that had an error? If so, it looks like my "best" cores are the least tolerant of undervolting. Kind of makes sense in a way.


Use corecycler to find which cores can`t do -30. Remember that dropping + on PBO will allow you a better negative value which increases allcore speed. On my setup at +200 only core 0 and 1 must have negative of -29, all others run -30, core 0 is the "best" core, so much for that. The cores that show up in event viewer as no 18 needs a lower CO-value.


----------



## Valantar (Nov 12, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Use corecycler to find which cores can`t do -30. Remember that dropping + on PBO will allow you a better negative value which increases allcore speed. On my setup at +200 only core 0 and 1 must have negative of -29, all others run -30, core 0 is the "best" core, so much for that. The cores that show up in event viewer as no 18 needs a lower CO-value.


Yep, that's what I've gathered. Core 0 isn't stable even at -15, but is at -10 (hard crashes at -15 and higher). Core 1 has given me one error running Corecycler at -20, but no crashes yet. The rest seem good (so far) at -20. Next steps, in order: tune in core 1 (I'm thinking +1 at a time, easily checked as it only gives errors under load so far), test cores 2-7 at -25 and - 30, then pinpoint the threshold for core 0 between -15 and -10. After that I might try more than +100 PBO offset, but we'll see. This will take a while!


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## Taraquin (Nov 12, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Yep, that's what I've gathered. Core 0 isn't stable even at -15, but is at -10 (hard crashes at -15 and higher). Core 1 has given me one error running Corecycler at -20, but no crashes yet. The rest seem good (so far) at -20. Next steps, in order: tune in core 1 (I'm thinking +1 at a time, easily checked as it only gives errors under load so far), test cores 2-7 at -25 and - 30, then pinpoint the threshold for core 0 between -15 and -10. After that I might try more than +100 PBO offset, but we'll see. This will take a while!


You must decide if you want 200 pbo now, you might need to reconfigure all cores if you set 100 first and 200 later.


----------



## Valantar (Nov 12, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> You must decide if you want 200 pbo now, you might need to reconfigure all cores if you set 100 first and 200 later.


I haven't been able to boot reliably above +100 at -10 all core, so that likely tells me that my troublesome cores are starting to reach their limit (or they might need 0 or even a positive offset, which... Nah.). I'm fine with 4.95GHz really, so boosting MT through improving CO is more important to me.


----------



## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 12, 2021)

Valantar said:


> I'm starting to zero in on my final RAM settings now. Finished 20 runs of TM5 1usmus with no errors.
> View attachment 224916
> This is at 1.46V now, after previously running 1.48. (I seem to remember 1.45 not being stable at these or slightly looser settings, though there have been so many changes over the past weeks it's hard to keep track!) With the fan I put over the RAM and VRMs chugging along inaudibly the RAM barely passes 40 degrees under load. My AIDA64 latency readings are creeping down towards the 60ns mark as well, pretty happy with that (currently running way faster than my not-quite-stable 4000 settings.
> 
> Is it worth trying to reduce tRFC any more at 1.46V, or should I leave it at this?


Looks good. The only thing you could try is tRDWR 8 + tWRRD 1.


----------



## Dar1usElite (Nov 13, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> You can't go much lower. Next step is 256, that needs more voltage. For 256 you probably need 1.48-1.5V. For 240 you need around 1.55V.
> 
> 
> If it works then start lowering timings one by one, prioritize tRFC, tRC, tRRDS/L and tFAW in pair, tWR and tRTP in pair.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 13, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> View attachment 224974


Try tweaking timings as I suggested, a few rare errors don't matter if it doesn't happend in games etc  Use 2T and gdm off, try CL17 and work your way down the timings.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 13, 2021)

Looks like it can use more SOC and IOD. But I am used to a dual CCD chip now. Pretty sure I used more than 1.1 on my 5600 for that speed though.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 13, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Looks like it can use more SOC and IOD. But I am used to a dual CCD chip now. Pretty sure I used more than 1.1 on my 5600 for that speed though.


On 2000fclk I need 1.11v soc and 1.03v iod, on 1900 I need 1.08v soc and 1.00v iod, slightly below works, but performance drops. Tested on a friends 5600X and it behaves the same. It seems like dual rank or 4 dimms sometimes need more soc/iod. We are both on SR. Tuned Samsung B-die might require a bit more than others since they stress memory controller more than other ICs due to lower tRCDRD, tRC and tRFC.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 13, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> On 2000fclk I need 1.11v soc and 1.03v iod, on 1900 I need 1.08v soc and 1.00v iod, slightly below works, but performance drops.


But that's on your chip..for 2K mine needs 1.156 and I use LLC3 because it does not hold steady without it. He is only at 1900, so 1.125v is not a big deal. 


Taraquin said:


> uned Samsung B-die might require a bit more than others since they stress memory controller more than other ICs due to lower tRCDRD, tRC and tRFC


That could be too.. all I have used is B-Die unfortunately.


----------



## Dar1usElite (Nov 13, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Try tweaking timings as I suggested, a few rare errors don't matter if it doesn't happend in games etc  Use 2T and gdm off, try CL17 and work your way down the timings.





ok this is weird. It passed 20 runs with no errors on these timings.. I think i set the primaries, the trc and trfc and 1t with gdm enabled and the rest is on auto @ 1.4v.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 13, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> View attachment 225001
> ok this is weird. It passed 20 runs with no errors on these timings.. I think i set the primaries, the trc and trfc and 1t with gdm enabled and the rest is on auto @ 1.4v.


Ok, that is good. Try trrd/faw next, 6/8 and 24 should work, 5/7 and 20 might work and 4/6 and 16 is best but a bit harder, wr/rtp after. Wr should be = cl, rtp=half wr. Wtr 4/10-12 and scl's at 4 last.



freeagent said:


> But that's on your chip..for 2K mine needs 1.156 and I use LLC3 because it does not hold steady without it. He is only at 1900, so 1.125v is not a big deal.
> 
> That could be too.. all I have used is B-Die unfortunately.


There is binning on the IOD aswell, one might need more volt than another  My friends gets whea at 1933 or higher, mine does 2066 fine without wheas, at 1900 we need same voltage.


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 13, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Ok, that is good. Try trrd/faw next, 6/8 and 24 should work, 5/7 and 20 might work and 4/6 and 16 is best but a bit harder, wr/rtp after. Wr should be = cl, rtp=half wr. Wtr 4/10-12 and scl's at 4 last.


Alright so try trrds = 6, trrdl = 8 and tfaw = 24? Im genuinely suprised it passed with 16 20 20 20 36 56 to be honest... i dont know if i can get the primaries much tighter than that. Ill try tightening the trfc down to one of the values you said above and then ill try tweaking the sub timings once i find the limit on the trfc


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## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 13, 2021)

freeagent said:


> all I have used is B-Die unfortunately.


More like fortunately. There's B-die and then there's "other memory".


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## freeagent (Nov 13, 2021)

rares495 said:


> More like fortunately. There's B-die and then there's "other memory".


But!

In a blind taste test without staring at numbers I doubt anyone would notice a difference 

Because full default feels fine.. 2133 and a bunch of 20s  

Of course everything says it sucks, but to me it felt fine..


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## Valantar (Nov 13, 2021)

freeagent said:


> But!
> 
> In a blind taste test without staring at numbers I doubt anyone would notice a difference
> 
> ...


Well, I mean, few of us ever get to do a side-by-side comparison of anything, and it's not like running crap memory gives you 10% lows in the 20s. A _lot_ of spec tweaking performance increases are mainly a process of convincing ourself that our setups are now working better. It might be noticeable at times, but typically not.


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## freeagent (Nov 13, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Well, I mean, few of us ever get to do a side-by-side comparison of anything, and it's not like running crap memory gives you 10% lows in the 20s. A _lot_ of spec tweaking performance increases are mainly a process of convincing ourself that our setups are now working better. It might be noticeable at times, but typically not.


I think side by side you would notice, but I don't think anyone would intentionally run that slow unless there was instability.. or they just didn't know.. Thinking back to my first boot on a 3600XT with this board and ram at full default, I spent about an hour like that.. did my windows install and updates, poked around the toobz a bit and it felt fine.. compared to a 3770K 

First big step was XMP lol


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## Ibizadr (Nov 13, 2021)

It's normal past 3866 got some whea errors?


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## Valantar (Nov 13, 2021)

Ibizadr said:


> It's normal past 3866 got some whea errors?


Pretty normal, yes.


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## Ibizadr (Nov 13, 2021)

It's what I got. I boot at 4000 and 3933 but got whea errors on occt memory test. At least I got 3866 cl16 stable later I post screenshots of Aida an timinings to got some advices.


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## DuxCro (Nov 13, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Still if you tune your curve optimizer max it will generally beat allcore OC.
> 
> Here is my scores:
> 4.4@1.05V 60-65W load
> ...


hey, can someone please explain this Curve optimizer to me? I had 5900X but sold it today and got 5600X because I had no more need for high core count. I have no idea how to do this PBO thing and CO. I have X570 mbo.  Any tutorial somewhere?

EDIT:
OK so to answer my own question. I did find a yt video. And i found this thing in bIOS. description in BIOS says that setting the value to negative and then number below that will lower the voltage of CPU which it uses for certain frequency and the other way around. However after testing i see it is completely different for me. Setting the value to negative and numberto 20, my CPU became very hot when testing with cinebench R23 and package power consumption vent to 115W and voltage over 1.3V all core. . When i set the value to positive and number to 20. The power consumption, max voltage and temperatures went down. 

So it turns out it is completely opposite of description in BIOS.


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 14, 2021)

did a little more tweaking @Taraquin , got it down to the 59ns range on aida and in the 15800 range on r23. ill start tweaking those other timings soon


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## Taraquin (Nov 14, 2021)

DuxCro said:


> hey, can someone please explain this Curve optimizer to me? I had 5900X but sold it today and got 5600X because I had no more need for high core count. I have no idea how to do this PBO thing and CO. I have X570 mbo.  Any tutorial somewhere?
> 
> EDIT:
> OK so to answer my own question. I did find a yt video. And i found this thing in bIOS. description in BIOS says that setting the value to negative and then number below that will lower the voltage of CPU which it uses for certain frequency and the other way around. However after testing i see it is completely different for me. Setting the value to negative and numberto 20, my CPU became very hot when testing with cinebench R23 and package power consumption vent to 115W and voltage over 1.3V all core. . When i set the value to positive and number to 20. The power consumption, max voltage and temperatures went down.
> ...


Don't touch scalar. I would stay away from + pbo. Remember that curve optimizer does not improve temps or consumption. It only does force the CPU to use less voltage at a specific frequency. Example: My 5600X stock uses 76W in CB R23. Without curve optimizer clockspeed is 4.275-4.325GHz avg at 1.23-1.25V. With negative -30 allcore it still uses 76W, but clockspeed is now 4.55-4.6GHz at 1.2-1.21V. Performance is 6% better. If you want to improve temps set a PPT limit. On my setup I 65W limit with CO and 76W limit stock makes clocks allcore run at 4.3GHz avg allcore. This means that - 30 CO allcore lowers consumption by 15% if clocks are kept equal. Temps about 5C lower.


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## DuxCro (Nov 14, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Don't touch scalar. I would stay away from + pbo. Remember that curve optimizer does not improve temps or consumption. It only does force the CPU to use less voltage at a specific frequency. Example: My 5600X stock uses 76W in CB R23. Without curve optimizer clockspeed is 4.275-4.325GHz avg at 1.23-1.25V. With negative -30 allcore it still uses 76W, but clockspeed is now 4.55-4.6GHz at 1.2-1.21V. Performance is 6% better. If you want to improve temps set a PPT limit. On my setup I 65W limit with CO and 76W limit stock makes clocks allcore run at 4.3GHz avg allcore. This means that - 30 CO allcore lowers consumption by 15% if clocks are kept equal. Temps about 5C lower.


Hey, that's fantastic. I just set it to negative 25 and PPT to 75. I use aida64 to monitor voltages, consumption, temperatures and clocks while running cinebench R23 on the second monitor. CPU did respect that 75W PPT limit and clocks went to 4450MHz all cores when running Cinebench. CPU used 1.140V for that frequency.

Also I'm curious about Cinebench R23 scores. I read that people get around 11500 points for multi thread test. But i get around 10500 when everything in BIOS is on default. Almost 11000 when i tune this curve optimizer.


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## Taraquin (Nov 14, 2021)

DuxCro said:


> Hey, that's fantastic. I just set it to negative 25 and PPT to 75. I use aida64 to monitor voltages, consumption, temperatures and clocks while running cinebench R23 on the second monitor. CPU did respect that 75W PPT limit and clocks went to 4450MHz all cores when running Cinebench. CPU used 1.140V for that frequency.
> 
> Also I'm curious about Cinebench R23 scores. I read that people get around 11500 points for multi thread test. But i get around 10500 when everything in BIOS is on default. Almost 11000 when i tune this curve optimizer.


Try -30 on all if you can or use corecycler to find which cores can't do -30.


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## DuxCro (Nov 14, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Try -30 on all if you can or use corecycler to find which cores can't do -30.


OK. I did try -30. It did nothing for the maximum frequency in Cinebench R23. It is still maxing out at 4450MHz. This is because CPU is respecting that 75W PPT limit i set, i guess. And voltage is also 1.140V for that frequency. What did change however is the minimum voltage when CPU is idle and working at 3.7GHz. It is now down to 0.950V. And this lowered idle consumption and temperatures.  So this really is fantastic. 
Thank you again.


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## Taraquin (Nov 14, 2021)

DuxCro said:


> OK. I did try -30. It did nothing for the maximum frequency in Cinebench R23. It is still maxing out at 4450MHz. This is because CPU is respecting that 75W PPT limit i set, i guess. And voltage is also 1.140V for that frequency. What did change however is the minimum voltage when CPU is idle and working at 3.7GHz. It is now down to 0.950V. And this lowered idle consumption and temperatures.  So this really is fantastic.
> Thank you again.


Seems your motherboard handles your CPU very different than mine. Mine idles at 0.83-0.85V at 3.7GHz with all cores at -30. May change if you change bios etc, AMD chipset drivers might affect it too.


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## Ibizadr (Nov 16, 2021)

Im here again for more tips from everyone for now I'm stable at 3866mhz. Everything with all voltages on auto except ram voltage at 1.45v. If I go to more frequency I got whea errors and lower CL doesn't boot, tried this 2 things with the same voltage and timings except CL lowered to 14.
Any recommendations for voltages or timings?
Attached my timmings and aida64 benchmark.


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 17, 2021)

Bit of an update. It had 3 errors with trrds/l 4/6 and tfaw of 16 so i backed it off to 6/8 and 24 respectively and it passed 20 runs with no errors. I don't know if its worth trying to go any lower or not, what do you think @Taraquin ?
I've only changed the primaries, TRC, TRFC. TRRDS/L, TFAW and AddrCmdDrvStr. Everything else is on auto still


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## Taraquin (Nov 17, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> View attachment 225465
> Bit of an update. It had 3 errors with trrds/l 4/6 and tfaw of 16 so i backed it off to 6/8 and 24 respectively and it passed 20 runs with no errors. I don't know if its worth trying to go any lower or not, what do you think @Taraquin ?
> I've only changed the primaries, TRC, TRFC. TRRDS/L, TFAW and AddrCmdDrvStr. Everything else is on auto still


Try trrd 5/7 and faw 20, if error go back to 6/8, 24, wtr 4/12, trdrd/wrwrscl 4, remember that rc should be tras + trp, so either tras 36 or rc 55. You can try 35 ras and 54 rc, might work, rfc 480 or 464 might work, wr should be 16, rtp 8, wrrd 3.


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 17, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Try trrd 5/7 and faw 20, if error go back to 6/8, 24, wtr 4/12, trdrd/wrwrscl 4, remember that rc should be tras + trp, so either tras 36 or rc 55. You can try 35 ras and 54 rc, might work, rfc 480 or 464 might work, wr should be 16, rtp 8, wrrd 3.


alright cheers ill give that a crack later tonight. I just get confused about rules. The only one i vaguely remembered was that tfaw is meant to be 4x trrds


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## Taraquin (Nov 17, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> alright cheers ill give that a crack later tonight. I just get confused about rules. The only one i vaguely remembered was that tfaw is meant to be 4x trrds


I just remembered that Hynix often don't like the lowest RRDS/FAW. 5/20 might work though.

Rules are:
RAS=On B-die CL+RCDRD, can work higher or lower. On CJR/DJR it can work, but sometimes RC gets too low so you must use CL+RCDRD+1 or 2. On Micron rev E and Samsung D you must add even more as RP can run really low on these, but RC can't.
RAS+RP=RC
RFC=lowest stable number divideable by 16 if on 2x16sticks or by 8 if on 2x8 or 4x8
FAW=RRDS x 4, RRDL=RRDS or +1 or 2
WR=CL and RTP=WR/2, WR should be even so if CL=15 set WR to 14 and RTP to 7
WTRS=3 or 4, WTRL=RTP or lowest stable above RTP
WRWR/RDRD-SCL: 2, 3 or 4
CWL=CL
RDWR=RCDRD/2  or +1 or 2 if you have dual rank
WRDD=1 if 2x8GB or 4x8, 3 if 2x16 or 4x16.

1T and geardown mode rounds up CL, CWL, WR and RTP to even numbers so I recommend 2T instead.

If you don't follow the rules everything can work out fine, but you get higher chance of errors, timeouts etc. I run WR/RTP at 10/5 on my setup as performance is slightly better vs 16/8 which I should according to rules.

I learned this from anta777, he has made some of the configs for TM5 and seems to know much.


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 18, 2021)

i changed only the wtrs/l values to 4 and 12 and got 2 errors, is this supposed to be changed in conjuction with something else?


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## Taraquin (Nov 18, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> View attachment 225645
> i changed only the wtrs/l values to 4 and 12 and got 2 errors, is this supposed to be changed in conjuction with something else?


No, I think they can be changed by themselves. 4 and 12 is very relaxed so weird that you get error. Revert back to what worked and try the next timings. Wtr don't impact performance that much.


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## Oasis (Nov 18, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> View attachment 225645
> i changed only the wtrs/l values to 4 and 12 and got 2 errors, is this supposed to be changed in conjuction with something else?


Put your VSOC to 1.15-1.17V and your VDDG CCD to 1000mv or 1010mv




1900 MLCK/FCLK/UCLK for me with no WHEA errors


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 20, 2021)

Oasis said:


> Put your VSOC to 1.15-1.17V and your VDDG CCD to 1000mv or 1010mv
> 
> View attachment 225655
> 1900 MLCK/FCLK/UCLK for me with no WHEA errors


OK so this made no difference it was still unstable at 4/12/24


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## DLD (Nov 21, 2021)

Can somebody help me out with my RAM OC? 

My kit is G.Skill Trident Z  F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA. So B-die with with XMP 14-14-14-34 timings at 3600mhz.

I feel this kit could be doing a lot better than it is currently. My previous kit was a cheaper G.Skill Trident Z at 3600mhz 16-19-19-39. I was able to run it at 3800mhz no problems.

My new better bin kit I can't seem to get it to be stable at 3800mhz. I have it running at 1.5v but have not messed with any other voltages yet. 

Here are my current timings. Any help from the experts would be great!


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## tabascosauz (Nov 21, 2021)

DLD said:


> Can somebody help me out with my RAM OC?
> 
> My kit is G.Skill Trident Z  F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA. So B-die with with XMP 14-14-14-34 timings at 3600mhz.
> 
> ...



3600CL14 is a relatively high bin for dual rank. Why are you trying to drop tRCD and tRP so low when you haven't touched any of the other timings? If you haven't gotten a feel yet for how much volt-happy your kit is, you're just torpedoing your testing by trying to force it down to 14-13-13.

I run 1.51V for 3800 14-14-14, and ~1.42V for 3600 14-14-14. Kinda depends on the board though, I was up to 1.53V for 14-15-15 on another board. 





Try something like this to start, let's see how much volts you need to be stable:


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## DLD (Nov 21, 2021)

Ok I set everything to what you suggested. I'll run Karhu for a while and see if I get any errors.

I would ultimately like to get this kit running at 3800mhz with lowest timings possible.



tabascosauz said:


> 3600CL14 is a relatively high bin for dual rank. Why are you trying to drop tRCD and tRP so low when you haven't touched any of the other timings? If you haven't gotten a feel yet for how much volt-happy your kit is, you're just torpedoing your testing by trying to force it down to 14-13-13.
> 
> I run 1.51V for 3800 14-14-14, and ~1.42V for 3600 14-14-14. Kinda depends on the board though, I was up to 1.53V for 14-15-15 on another board.
> 
> ...


Ok after 17 min of Karhu at your settings I got an error. The settings I posted got 0 errors after 1 hour. I'm guessing its the tRFC?


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## tabascosauz (Nov 21, 2021)

DLD said:


> Ok I set everything to what you suggested. I'll run Karhu for a while and see if I get any errors.
> 
> I would ultimately like to get this kit running at 3800mhz with lowest timings possible.
> 
> Ok after 17 min of Karhu at your settings I got an error. The settings I posted got 0 errors after 1 hour. I'm guessing its the tRFC?



140ns tRFC should be easily doable for a kit of this caliber. It's Bdie, everything is relative to how much VDIMM you're running - how much voltage did you set for those settings?

3800 15-15-15 or 16-16-16 should be a walk in the park, I'd say 1.45-1.48V and 1.35-1.4V respectively. If you want 14-14-14, expect to pay for it in VDIMM, up to 1.5-1.55V or so.

What's your RAM cooling setup like and how are your RAM temps in Karhu? If you don't have good passive or active airflow directly over the DIMMs, you can forget about 3800CL14 and probably 3800CL15 immediately. At those timings I sent, if you hit 50C on the DIMMs you're done, errors will start rolling in. If not even earlier at a lower temperature.


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## DLD (Nov 21, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> 140ns tRFC should be easily doable for a kit of this caliber. It's Bdie, everything is relative to how much VDIMM you're running - how much voltage did you set for those settings?
> 
> 3800 15-15-15 or 16-16-16 should be a walk in the park, I'd say 1.45-1.48V and 1.35-1.4V respectively. If you want 14-14-14, expect to pay for it in VDIMM, up to 1.5-1.55V or so.
> 
> What's your RAM cooling setup like and how are your RAM temps in Karhu? If you don't have good passive or active airflow directly over the DIMMs, you can forget about 3800CL14 and probably 3800CL15 immediately. At those timings I sent, if you hit 50C on the DIMMs you're done, errors will start rolling in. If not even earlier at a lower temperature.


You are right. Me being a noob at this, still had it at 1.5v. I put it back to 1.45 (which is XMP) and it ran 55 min and over 2,000% coverage without an error.

It still reached 51c on 1 stick and 46 on another. My room was getting hot though so after opening the door the hottest stick stayed at 49c.

Here is a pic of my PC. Not the greatest quality. 3 AL120 Uni Fans as intake in the front. Two 140mm exhaust on the top for radiator and one 140mm exhaust in the back.

Is there any way to get airflow directly over the DIMMs? I know Corsair made something for their sticks.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 21, 2021)

DLD said:


> You are right. Me being a noob at this, still had it at 1.5v. I put it back to 1.45 (which is XMP) and it ran 55 min and over 2,000% coverage without an error.
> 
> It still reached 51c on 1 stick and 46 on another. My room was getting hot though so after opening the door the hottest stick stayed at 49c.
> 
> ...



Unless you run 2-3000rpm fans on the front, airflow is nowhere near enough if you rely on case fans.

Just stand a small 92mm fan or something on top of the GPU backplate and point it at the dimms. It's easy and nothing permanent that you can't easily unplug. 

Corsair's RAM cooler is sucky - I returned it because it was barely better than running a 120mm exhaust above the RAM. I run a push pull C14S setup that provides plenty of downwards airflow, the Corsair cooler couldn't hold a candle even at near max speed. But if your existing benchmark is basically zero airflow, it'll help.


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## DLD (Nov 22, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Unless you run 2-3000rpm fans on the front, airflow is nowhere near enough if you rely on case fans.
> 
> Just stand a small 92mm fan or something on top of the GPU backplate and point it at the dimms. It's easy and nothing permanent that you can't easily unplug.
> 
> Corsair's RAM cooler is sucky - I returned it because it was barely better than running a 120mm exhaust above the RAM. I run a push pull C14S setup that provides plenty of downwards airflow, the Corsair cooler couldn't hold a candle even at near max speed. But if your existing benchmark is basically zero airflow, it'll help.


Ok so if I put a fan over it and keep them at or below 50c what would you recommend I try next? Should I shoot for a 3800mhz clock or just keep tightening the timings at 3600?


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## Taraquin (Nov 22, 2021)

DLD said:


> Ok so if I put a fan over it and keep them at or below 50c what would you recommend I try next? Should I shoot for a 3800mhz clock or just keep tightening the timings at 3600?


I would go for 3800 if stable and no whea 19 in eventviewer. 3800cl15 is about as hard as 3600cl14, but 3800 is generally a bit faster.

As for temps, there is binning involved. Some B-dies can handle a bit over 50C while tweaked, while others need below 45C.

I can run up to 1.5V without direct fan over ram, but I have a airflow case whith intake partially blowing at ram, GPU-blows a bit of air above ram and CPU draws air over ram. Over 1.5V I get overheat after a few minutes in karhu/TM5.

Remember you must run 2T and gear down mode off for cl15 to work.

If you try 3800 keep most timings as tabasco recommends but run:
15 15 15 30 45
272 tRFC
14/7 or 12/6 tWR/tRTP
4/8 or 4/10 wtr if doable.

PS: You won't like this, but disabling led will lower ram temp a bit since led draws a bit of power, thus creating heat, nit by much, but it can be the difference of overheating at 1.48V or 1.5V 



tabascosauz said:


> 3600CL14 is a relatively high bin for dual rank. Why are you trying to drop tRCD and tRP so low when you haven't touched any of the other timings? If you haven't gotten a feel yet for how much volt-happy your kit is, you're just torpedoing your testing by trying to force it down to 14-13-13.
> 
> I run 1.51V for 3800 14-14-14, and ~1.42V for 3600 14-14-14. Kinda depends on the board though, I was up to 1.53V for 14-15-15 on another board.
> 
> ...


I mostly agree, but tRTP should be half tWR so 12/6, tRFC is better off at 256 as it is best timed if diviable by 16 for dual rank or 8 for SR, these suggestions according to anta777  Except for that rest great advice 

As for you own settings 272 tRFC might be better at 2T allows you to run 5 tRTP, changing tWR to 12 also might improve things  Might not improve anything 



Dar1usElite said:


> OK so this made no difference it was still unstable at 4/12/24


Change voltages back if it made no difference. Tried lowering tRFC, tWR/tRTP and scls yet?


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## tabascosauz (Nov 22, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> I mostly agree, but tRTP should be half tWR so 12/6, tRFC is better off at 256 as it is best timed if diviable by 16 for dual rank or 8 for SR, these suggestions according to anta777  Except for that rest great advice
> 
> As for you own settings 272 tRFC might be better at 2T allows you to run 5 tRTP, changing tWR to 12 also might improve things  Might not improve anything



I totally get why it is, but between the two there is no practical difference. I'll still run tRTP 5 just for OCD sake (doesn't appear to cost me VDIMM, I'll test tonight), but there's nothing going on with tRFC 256 aside from the obvious +0.02V of running 6ns lower tRFC, so not touching 266 if it works just fine. Not even any slight latency improvements as one would normally expect from dropping 6ns in tRFC.



Taraquin said:


> PS: You won't like this, but disabling led will lower ram temp a bit since led draws a bit of power, thus creating heat, nit by much, but it can be the difference of overheating at 1.48V or 1.5V



This is actually a very good point, G.skill is annoying since the RGB OFF doesn't reliably stick unless you run the software at every boot, but it's about a 0.5-1C difference on mine


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## Taraquin (Nov 22, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I totally get why it is, but between the two there is no practical difference. I'll still run tRTP 5 just for OCD sake (doesn't appear to cost me VDIMM, I'll test tonight), but there's nothing going on with tRFC 256 aside from the obvious +0.02V of running 6ns lower tRFC, so not touching 266 if it works just fine. Not even any slight latency improvements as one would normally expect from dropping 6ns in tRFC.
> 
> 
> 
> This is actually a very good point, G.skill is annoying since the RGB OFF doesn't reliably stick unless you run the software at every boot, but it's about a 0.5-1C difference on mine


I`m not the expert on this, but anta777 said that WR\RTP is in a 2:1 relationship so performance should improve if kept at a 2:1 ratio  You could try tRFC 272, it will probably give exact same performance as 266, but will be slightly easier to run voltagewise since DR counts in 16 ticks  256 and 272 are divideable by 16


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## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 22, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> I`m not the expert on this, but anta777 said that WR\RTP is in a 2:1 relationship so performance should improve if kept at a 2:1 ratio  You could try tRFC 272, it will probably give exact same performance as 266, but will be slightly easier to run voltagewise since DR counts in 16 ticks  256 and 272 are divideable by 16


There's a tRFC calculator made by a very knowledgeable person from OCN. Use the pre-release sheet.









						tRFC mini
					

TM5 Error Description   ,TM5 Errors Decyphered,SOURCE 1usmus_V3,Error Type,Error Description ERROR #0,RefreshStable 0Mb,Voltage cutoff choke, suspect tRRD & tWTR Nearly always tRRD & tWTR but can also be too low tRP  or tiny bit too low tRC (if user used > -3 on tRC)  Start by adding VDIMM 6x Err...




					docs.google.com


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## Ibizadr (Nov 22, 2021)

rares495 said:


> There's a tRFC calculator made by a very knowledgeable person from OCN. Use the pre-release sheet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm this calculator from my understand you put frequency, TCL and trc and the calculator gives 3options for trfc?


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## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 22, 2021)

Ibizadr said:


> I'm this calculator from my understand you put frequency, TCL and trc and the calculator gives 3options for trfc?


Yes but you can also input your desired latency and get tRFC that way. Use the pre-release sheet.


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## DLD (Nov 22, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> I would go for 3800 if stable and no whea 19 in eventviewer. 3800cl15 is about as hard as 3600cl14, but 3800 is generally a bit faster.
> 
> As for temps, there is binning involved. Some B-dies can handle a bit over 50C while tweaked, while others need below 45C.
> 
> ...


I tried what you suggested for 3800. Required CMOS reset. This kit just does not seem to like to go above 3600. Kind of annoying since my cheaper Hynix kit did it without any adjusting. 

1.5v almost got to boot but BSOD before windows. Maybe it needs timings higher to get stable but at what point does it become worse than a tighter 3600mhz tune? Maybe I'm better off tuning it more at 3600 but Idk....


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## Taraquin (Nov 22, 2021)

DLD said:


> I tried what you suggested for 3800. Required CMOS reset. This kit just does not seem to like to go above 3600. Kind of annoying since my cheaper Hynix kit did it without any adjusting.
> 
> 1.5v almost got to boot but BSOD before windows. Maybe it needs timings higher to get stable but at what point does it become worse than a tighter 3600mhz tune? Maybe I'm better off tuning it more at 3600 but Idk....


Tried 3666 or 3733? A few Ryzen 5000 can't get 3800 or above stable. Did you get 3800 working with Hynix?


----------



## DLD (Nov 22, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Tried 3666 or 3733? A few Ryzen 5000 can't get 3800 or above stable. Did you get 3800 working with Hynix?


Haven't messed with other speeds. Yes I was running 3800mhz with G.Skill F4-3600C16D-32GTZNC. Wanted to get my latency lower so bought the more expensive kit figuring I could still easily run 3800 with better timings. I was wrong lol.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Nov 22, 2021)

So GDM on and Command Rate at 1T, or GDM off and Command rate at 1T? 

I see people running the former here. Im still confused on GDM, so i have it off running at 2T right now:


----------



## freeagent (Nov 22, 2021)

Its a tougher load for me to run 1T GDM off. My tuning skills are not leet enough to make it far.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 22, 2021)

DLD said:


> Haven't messed with other speeds. Yes I was running 3800mhz with G.Skill F4-3600C16D-32GTZNC. Wanted to get my latency lower so bought the more expensive kit figuring I could still easily run 3800 with better timings. I was wrong lol.


Try the settings I suggested again, but try tRFC 272, wtrl 12, trrdl 6, trdwr 10, that should be a lot easier to run. If it doesn`t work, try it at 3733.



MxPhenom 216 said:


> So GDM on and Command Rate at 1T, or GDM off and Command rate at 1T?
> 
> I see people running the former here. Im still confused on GDM, so i have it off running at 2T right now:
> 
> View attachment 226259


1T and GDM off is slightly faster than 2T and 1T+ gdm, but much harder to run if you are at 3800+. You usually need to configure DrvStr, sometimes ProcODT etc in order to make it work. Sometimes it just won`t work. At 3600 it`s a bit easier to run.


----------



## DLD (Nov 22, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Try the settings I suggested again, but try tRFC 272, wtrl 12, trrdl 6, trdwr 10, that should be a lot easier to run. If it doesn`t work, try it at 3733.


That's a no go at both speeds. Screen just goes black and does nothing when I apply settings. Requires CMOS reset each time.

So far this seems to be my stable settings at the moment.


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## Taraquin (Nov 22, 2021)

DLD said:


> That's a no go at both speeds. Screen just goes black and does nothing when I apply settings. Requires CMOS reset each time.
> 
> So far this seems to be my stable settings at the moment.


That's at 1.5V ram?


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## DLD (Nov 22, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> That's at 1.5V ram?


For my current settings? That's at 1.45v.


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## Ibizadr (Nov 23, 2021)

DLD said:


> For my current settings? That's at 1.45v.


At 1.5x volts you can get 3800 cl16 easy. Don't worry b die can run 1.5v daily they say.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 23, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> That's at 1.5V ram?


Did you try 1.5V at the settings I suggested? Another approach is 3800 1.45V 16 16 16 32 
48 rc
288 rfc
4/6/16 rrds/l/faw
16/8 wr/rtp
4/12 wtr
16 cwl
4 rdrd/wrwr scl
10 rdwr
3 wrrd

Keep rest at auto, use gdm on and 1T. If that works you might need to adjust DrvStr, ProcODT etc for 2T to boot.


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## DLD (Nov 23, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Did you try 1.5V at the settings I suggested? Another approach is 3800 1.45V 16 16 16 32
> 48 rc
> 288 rfc
> 4/6/16 rrds/l/faw
> ...


Yes pretty sure I tried 1.5 as well. Just did not want to boot with it. I'll give those settings a try later today.


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## Dar1usElite (Nov 23, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Change voltages back if it made no difference. Tried lowering tRFC, tWR/tRTP and scls yet?


Yes... Lowering tRFC beyond 496 gave errors I'll have to check about the others.


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## DLD (Nov 23, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Did you try 1.5V at the settings I suggested? Another approach is 3800 1.45V 16 16 16 32
> 48 rc
> 288 rfc
> 4/6/16 rrds/l/faw
> ...


So far ran 1 hr 10 min with 2600 % coverage and 0 errors at those settings.


----------



## Ibizadr (Nov 23, 2021)

rares495 said:


> There's a tRFC calculator made by a very knowledgeable person from OCN. Use the pre-release sheet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This calculation for trfc gives me a slightly boost.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 23, 2021)

DLD said:


> So far ran 1 hr 10 min with 2600 % coverage and 0 errors at those settings.


That is good. It seems you need some custom settings to run cl15. Check aida for performance. For tweaking performance further you can try 272 rfc, but it might not work. 9 rdwr also might work, 12 wr and 6 rtp might work, 10 or 8 wtrl might work.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 23, 2021)

DLD said:


> Yes pretty sure I tried 1.5 as well. Just did not want to boot with it. I'll give those settings a try later today.





Taraquin said:


> That is good. It seems you need some custom settings to run cl15. Check aida for performance. For tweaking performance further you can try 272 rfc, but it might not work. 9 rdwr also might work, 12 wr and 6 rtp might work, 10 or 8 wtrl might work.



Yesterday my Impact freaked out when I made a mistake and set some unallowable timings under GDM. Booted once then crashed to BIOS recovery mode and needed a clear cmos), so there are absolutely little things that will cause no boot on settings that should be okay. Ended up reflashing a clean 3601 just in case. Even on Asus which ime has decent autorecovery and good BIOS resilience amongst AM4 vendors.

There is obviously some variation in binning, but imo no kit as high end as 3600CL14 should need 1.45V just for 3800CL16.......my kit is pretty middle of the road honestly for this bin (some others similar quality with 3200CL14). Currently running 3800CL15 @ 1.42, 16 cycles stable anta777

You can keep the looser sub timings but outside of tRFC all of them combined should really only make a 0.01-0.02V difference to these.


----------



## DLD (Nov 23, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> That is good. It seems you need some custom settings to run cl15. Check aida for performance. For tweaking performance further you can try 272 rfc, but it might not work. 9 rdwr also might work, 12 wr and 6 rtp might work, 10 or 8 wtrl might work.


Ran over 2 hours without an error. This is the benchmark results.



tabascosauz said:


> Yesterday my Impact freaked out when I made a mistake and set some unallowable timings under GDM. Booted once then crashed to BIOS recovery mode and needed a clear cmos), so there are absolutely little things that will cause no boot on settings that should be okay. Ended up reflashing a clean 3601 just in case. Even on Asus which ime has decent autorecovery and good BIOS resilience amongst AM4 vendors.
> 
> There is obviously some variation in binning, but imo no kit as high end as 3600CL14 should need 1.45V just for 3800CL16.......my kit is pretty middle of the road honestly for this bin (some others similar quality with 3200CL14). Currently running 3800CL15 @ 1.42, 16 cycles stable anta777
> 
> ...


Yes I thought my kit would be a high bin. Which is why I'm surprised I'm having so much issue getting it stable at 3800. I was hoping to maybe even go above that if my IF allowed. I never tried anything beyond 3800 / 1900 so I don't even know what my CPU limits are.

Just played Warzone for a few hours with no issues as well. So I will try lowering what you suggested tomorrow and see what it can do.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 24, 2021)

DLD said:


> Ran over 2 hours without an error. This is the benchmark results.
> 
> 
> Yes I thought my kit would be a high bin. Which is why I'm surprised I'm having so much issue getting it stable at 3800. I was hoping to maybe even go above that if my IF allowed. I never tried anything beyond 3800 / 1900 so I don't even know what my CPU limits are.
> ...


You latency is kinda high. Try the following: set soc volt to 1.1v, see if latency improves, try 1.12V and 1.06v iod, see if that improves more. You should be getting around 55ns with current settings. As for further tweaks cl 15 should be possible at 2T gdm off, but you probably need to change cad, procODT etc. You can try 48 proc, 40 20 30 20 or 60 20 30 20 and see if it helps. If you can boot 2T we have room for improvement and maybe cl15 can work  Let us know how this goes.


----------



## damric (Nov 24, 2021)

Screwing around with these Micron E die sticks with my Ryzen 1600. So far so good.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 24, 2021)

damric said:


> Screwing around with these Micron E die sticks with my Ryzen 1600. So far so good.
> 
> View attachment 226454


That is awesome, I thought IMC on Ryzen gen 1 maxed at 3600ish. If you wanna improve a bit further you can compare to what I ran on rev E with my 3600, I set relatively safe values for you behind if needed, but you may be able to run what I did on some timings:
11 rp (16)
56 rc (60)
4/6/16 rrds/l/faw (5/8/20)
Wtr 3/6 (4/12)
Wr/rtp 12/6
528 rfc (560)
4 rdrdscl/wrwrscl
9 rdwr (10)
1 wrrd (3)

A 2400G I build managed 3533 on rev E with 16-18-18-16.


----------



## damric (Nov 24, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> That is awesome, I thought IMC on Ryzen gen 1 maxed at 3600ish. If you wanna improve a bit further you can compare to what I ran on rev E with my 3600, I set relatively safe values for you behind if needed, but you may be able to run what I did on some timings:
> 11 rp (16)
> 56 rc (60)
> 4/6/16 rrds/l/faw (5/8/20)
> ...


Looks like 3733 got an error, and errored again even with more voltage so I rolled it back to 3600MT/s. 3600MT/s passed both AIDA64 memtest and memtest 64. I'm going to try tighter timings. I'll see if yours work.

This is one of the 1600 AFs I snatched for $85 last year from Amazon. I sold my 3600 to a friend and this is a holdover until I see what the 3D cache Ryzens can do next year. This one seems to overclock very well and doesn't mind pushing these 4 Micron E DIMMs on this Taichi x470 board.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 24, 2021)

damric said:


> Looks like 3733 got an error, and errored again even with more voltage so I rolled it back to 3600MT/s. 3600MT/s passed both AIDA64 memtest and memtest 64. I'm going to try tighter timings. I'll see if yours work.
> 
> This is one of the 1600 AFs I snatched for $85 last year from Amazon. I sold my 3600 to a friend and this is a holdover until I see what the 3D cache Ryzens can do next year. This one seems to overclock very well and doesn't mind pushing these 4 Micron E DIMMs on this Taichi x470 board.


Ah, thought you meant the original 1600, AF has better IMC, but if you manage to stabilize 3733 that is still impressive!


----------



## damric (Nov 24, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Ah, thought you meant the original 1600, AF has better IMC, but if you manage to stabilize 3733 that is still impressive!


It seems like the best it will do is running slightly above 3600MT/s (using 101.0 base clock) with 1T and GDM disabled. That's still way better than I was able to do with the other 1600AFs and various other RAMs like Hynix DJR and Samsung B-die. I'm still figuring out which timings I can tighten up without throwing errors, but you know how that goes, slow process.

Edit: Ok fooled around a bit and this seems stable. This is a mishmash of timings from the calculator, xmp tables, and your suggested timings, and it seems to work.


----------



## DLD (Nov 24, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> You latency is kinda high. Try the following: set soc volt to 1.1v, see if latency improves, try 1.12V and 1.06v iod, see if that improves more. You should be getting around 55ns with current settings. As for further tweaks cl 15 should be possible at 2T gdm off, but you probably need to change cad, procODT etc. You can try 48 proc, 40 20 30 20 or 60 20 30 20 and see if it helps. If you can boot 2T we have room for improvement and maybe cl15 can work  Let us know how this goes.


I agree it should be lower. Not sure why I'm always around 58ish. I changed the soc and iod to what you suggested, but still seems to be the same.

First bench gave just over 60 ns, then ran it again right after and got 57 ns.


----------



## Ibizadr (Nov 24, 2021)

What causes whea 19 errors? Frequency?


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## Taraquin (Nov 24, 2021)

Ibizadr said:


> What causes whea 19 errors? Frequency?


Generally if infinity fabric runs above 1900 (ram at 3800+) many motherboards/cpus gets whea 19, some very many of them. If you have 5600X or 5800X you have a smaller chance of whea vs 5900X/5950X. Also small motherboards with only 2 dimmslots (ITX and some mATX) seems less likely to get whea above 3800/1900.


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## Ibizadr (Nov 24, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Generally if infinity fabric runs above 1900 (ram at 3800+) many motherboards/cpus gets whea 19, some very many of them. If you have 5600X or 5800X you have a smaller chance of whea vs 5900X/5950X. Also small motherboards with only 2 dimmslots (ITX and some mATX) seems less likely to get whea above 3800/1900.


That's make sense I'm running 3866mhz I today I see I got some whea and lower my frequency to 3800MHz but didn't test it yet. I will go for 3800MHz in my 5800x and dont have any bsod or reboot but I want to get rid of that type of errors. Ty for your help one more time.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 25, 2021)

DLD said:


> I agree it should be lower. Not sure why I'm always around 58ish. I changed the soc and iod to what you suggested, but still seems to be the same.
> 
> First bench gave just over 60 ns, then ran it again right after and got 57 ns.


Low on first run can be background processes interfering. 57 is still a bit high, do you get whea 19 in event viewer? Set soc/iod back to what you had if performance is the same.


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## DLD (Nov 25, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Low on first run can be background processes interfering. 57 is still a bit high, do you get whea 19 in event viewer? Set soc/iod back to what you had if performance is the same.


0 events in event viewer. I don't know why my latency is high or what the cause is.  I was hoping to get into the low 50s with this kit.


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## Taraquin (Nov 25, 2021)

DLD said:


> 0 events in event viewer. I don't know why my latency is high or what the cause is.  I was hoping to get into the low 50s with this kit.


Try running aida in safe mode, that should verify if background processes is the issue. Aside from that you could try stabilizing 2T. Try cad 40 20 30 20 and start with changing:
15 cl
14 cwl
14 wr
7 rtp

Set voltage to 1.5V. See if it boots and is stable. If it works try
15 rcd
15 rp
30 ras
45 rc


----------



## DLD (Nov 25, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Try running aida in safe mode, that should verify if background processes is the issue. Aside from that you could try stabilizing 2T. Try cad 40 20 30 20 and start with changing:
> 15 cl
> 14 cwl
> 14 wr
> ...


Tried the first values you mentioned. Did not like that and required CMOS reset.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 25, 2021)

DLD said:


> Tried the first values you mentioned. Did not like that and required CMOS reset.


Okay, then it seems your ram dislikes low CL\CWL or 2T-settings. Can you try again with cad at 60 20 40 20? What is the highest voltage you can run on the ram without issues?

You could try at 1.45V at 1T\gdm
29 ras
45 rc
12 wr
6 rtp

If you can run 1.5V on ram without problems try lowering rfc. You can try 256. You can also try 4\8 wtr and 9 rdwr. If you are able to do all that you should get a bit better latency.


----------



## DLD (Nov 25, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Okay, then it seems your ram dislikes low CL\CWL or 2T-settings. Can you try again with cad at 60 20 40 20? What is the highest voltage you can run on the ram without issues?
> 
> You could try at 1.45V at 1T\gdm
> 29 ras
> ...



I'll give it a try. Not sure on the voltage. I only ever went to 1.5, sometimes my ambient temp gets a little warm and have had RAM temps get up to around 52c while gaming.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 25, 2021)

DLD said:


> I'll give it a try. Not sure on the voltage. I only ever went to 1.5, sometimes my ambient temp gets a little warm and have had RAM temps get up to around 52c while gaming.


Okay, stick with 1.45V then, and 272 rcf, but you can try all the other advice.


----------



## DLD (Nov 25, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Okay, then it seems your ram dislikes low CL\CWL or 2T-settings. Can you try again with cad at 60 20 40 20? What is the highest voltage you can run on the ram without issues?
> 
> You could try at 1.45V at 1T\gdm
> 29 ras
> ...


Still a no go. Did not require a CMOS reset, but it kept restarting over and over and then required me to go in bios and revert back. 

So as of right now this is the current stable settings at 1.45v.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 25, 2021)

@DLD just an idea, can you make sure TSME is disabled in BIOS? Just use the search function. It shouldn't theoretically be possible, but it's super quick to go in there and change, and honestly you never know with AMD.


----------



## DLD (Nov 25, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> @DLD just an idea, can you make sure TSME is disabled in BIOS? Just use the search function. It shouldn't theoretically be possible, but it's super quick to go in there and change, and honestly you never know with AMD.


Just checked. It was on Auto.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 25, 2021)

DLD said:


> Still a no go. Did not require a CMOS reset, but it kept restarting over and over and then required me to go in bios and revert back.
> 
> So as of right now this is the current stable settings at 1.45v.


Okay, did you test all of the above tweaks? They should be tested one by one. Start with 29 ras 45 rc, if it works try 272 rfc, if it works try 8 wtrl, if it works try 12 wr/6 rtp, if it works try 9 rdwr.

Also: Disable spread spectrum, that can affect stability.

Next up is testing curve optimizer, than can boost performance by a few percent.


----------



## DLD (Nov 25, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Okay, did you test all of the above tweaks? They should be tested one by one. Start with 29 ras 45 rc, if it works try 272 rfc, if it works try 8 wtrl, if it works try 12 wr/6 rtp, if it works try 9 rdwr.
> 
> Also: Disable spread spectrum, that can affect stability.
> 
> Next up is testing curve optimizer, than can boost performance by a few percent.


Only tried what you suggested to get 2T working. Going to start testing the other stuff now.

Just ran the benchmark in safemode. Much better latency there.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 25, 2021)

DLD said:


> Only tried what you suggested to get 2T working. Going to start testing the other stuff now.
> 
> Just ran the benchmark in safemode. Much better latency there.


It seems you have a lot of background processes etc in windows slowing you down. Difference between safe mode andcregular is 1ns on my setup. 4ns must be many apps etc, try cleaning up


----------



## DLD (Nov 25, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> It seems you have a lot of background processes etc in windows slowing you down. Difference between safe mode andcregular is 1ns on my setup. 4ns must be many apps etc, try cleaning up


29 ras and 45 rc ran an hour with 0 errors.

As far as background stuff goes, not sure what's left to get rid of. I'm on a fresh OS install and only Asus GPU tweak and Corsair ICUE.  Nothing stands out to me in task manager either. So not sure what's running to cause that.

So all the things you suggested to try passed with a few hours of stress test and a few hours of gaming. 

This is where we are at currently.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 26, 2021)

DLD said:


> 29 ras and 45 rc ran an hour with 0 errors.
> 
> As far as background stuff goes, not sure what's left to get rid of. I'm on a fresh OS install and only Asus GPU tweak and Corsair ICUE.  Nothing stands out to me in task manager either. So not sure what's running to cause that.
> 
> ...


Looks good man, you can try windows 10 debloater to speed up windows. Also try curve optimizer 

As for further tweaking you might be able to run RAS and RC lower. Remember that RC=RAS+RP. You can try 28 44, 27 43, 26 42 etc and see how that works. You may be able to run RP lower aswell, maybe 15 or 14 but it might need more voltage.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 26, 2021)

DLD said:


> Only tried what you suggested to get 2T working. Going to start testing the other stuff now.
> 
> Just ran the benchmark in safemode. Much better latency there.



Those are good results. Spot on if not even faster than expected for CL16. 

iCUE seems to be pretty notorious for hogging resources in the background. At least past revisions, not sure about currently.

If GPU Tweak is still Afterburner-based then it's still a monitoring program, which usually affect AIDA latency a little bit. Same goes for HWInfo. Not a problem, just exit them when you're benchmarking.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 26, 2021)

rares495 said:


> There's a tRFC calculator made by a very knowledgeable person from OCN. Use the pre-release sheet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've used that before, but according to anta777 it's very simple: 8GB modules operates in 8 ticks, 16GB in 16 ticks so a good timed tRFC should be divideable by 8 if 2x8 or 4x8 and divideable by 16 if 2x16 or 4x16. This will sometimes match the tRC x 6 or 8. I don't know what is right/perfect, but if he's correct (he made several presets for TM5 so I guess he knows much) then tRFC 280 and 265 on 2x16 would get identical performance since you need to run 264 or lower for previous tick-cycle. The performacediff between 264 and 280 is marginal at best anyways, but voltage requirements on B-die is a factor. If run at 4000 265 is 132.5ns while 280 is 140ns which translate into 0.05v which is quite a difference on B-die which is very temp sensitive. 

The calc itself seems solid for finding a baseline, but I believe anta777 is correct so finding the nearest divideable by 8 or 16 can be good advice


----------



## Ibizadr (Nov 26, 2021)

What the most common voltage for 3800 Cl14? I'm quite stable at that and now want to reduce voltage, what you guys are costume to see at that speed and timmings. For now I'm at 1.5v but I think I can reduce it more. Also Im with ccd and iod on auto and I think the values a bit higher its better to reduce ram voltage first or that values first and then ram voltage.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 26, 2021)

1.475-1.55 I would imagine. I am running 2x 16gb kits.. one will do it with 1.5 and the other 1.525. 14-15-15 is way easier, but a tad slower.


----------



## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 26, 2021)

I don't think it's doable with less than 1.5V unless you get really lucky and buy a god-tier kit.


----------



## Ibizadr (Nov 26, 2021)

rares495 said:


> I don't think it's doable with less than 1.5V unless you get really lucky and buy a god-tier kit.





freeagent said:


> 1.475-1.55 I would imagine. I am running 2x 16gb kits.. one will do it with 1.5 and the other 1.525. 14-15-15 is way easier, but a tad slower.


I'm at 1.5v 14-14-14 trfc 252 with 2x8gb b die kit. I will aim for ccd iod first since my ram voltage for now it's on average. My iod and ccd on auto its quite high I think.


----------



## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 26, 2021)

Ibizadr said:


> I'm at 1.5v 14-14-14 trfc 252 with 2x8gb b die kit. I will aim for ccd iod first since my ram voltage for now it's on average. My iod and ccd on auto its quite high I think.


If your SOC is around 1.1V then IOD should be ~1.04V and CCD ~0.99. These are fine.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 26, 2021)

I’m at 1.065 iod and 1.15 soc, .999 on the others


----------



## DLD (Nov 26, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Looks good man, you can try windows 10 debloater to speed up windows. Also try curve optimizer
> 
> As for further tweaking you might be able to run RAS and RC lower. Remember that RC=RAS+RP. You can try 28 44, 27 43, 26 42 etc and see how that works. You may be able to run RP lower aswell, maybe 15 or 14 but it might need more voltage.


I already use Curve Optimizer. I been running +200mhz and -20 all core. Have not messed with anything else. Holds around 4.6ghz all core in Cinebench R20 with a score of around 6.1k. 

Might try lowering the timings you suggested but am I really going to gain much at this point? If I can get the RAM to stay under 50c at 1.5v then maybe we can get the main timings lower. 

I'm also curious if we can get the frequency higher since 3800/1900 gives no errors? Might be some more room there since we put the main timings at 16.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 26, 2021)

Yup set flat 16s and let er rip, she might have more left in her.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 27, 2021)

DLD said:


> I already use Curve Optimizer. I been running +200mhz and -20 all core. Have not messed with anything else. Holds around 4.6ghz all core in Cinebench R20 with a score of around 6.1k.
> 
> Might try lowering the timings you suggested but am I really going to gain much at this point? If I can get the RAM to stay under 50c at 1.5v then maybe we can get the main timings lower.
> 
> I'm also curious if we can get the frequency higher since 3800/1900 gives no errors? Might be some more room there since we put the main timings at 16.


Lower ras/rc is probably most beneficial, others don't matter much. If you test core cycler you might be able to run some cores at - 30 which improves allcore speed


----------



## Dar1usElite (Dec 1, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Change voltages back if it made no difference. Tried lowering tRFC, tWR/tRTP and scls yet?






Sorry for the delay in replies ive been flat out... Tried lowering the trfc below 496 and i got errors
scl's of 4  gave me errors (i cant remember what they were exactly, i can go back and re run the test to find out). And the current screenshot is of the run where i adjusted the wr/rtp values to what you said. 
vdimm is at 1.42v aswell


----------



## Taraquin (Dec 1, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> View attachment 227181
> Sorry for the delay in replies ive been flat out... Tried lowering the trfc below 496 and i got errors
> scl's of 4  gave me errors (i cant remember what they were exactly, i can go back and re run the test to find out). And the current screenshot is of the run where i adjusted the wr/rtp values to what you said.
> vdimm is at 1.42v aswell


Okay, try WR/RTP 20/10. Remember trrds 6/trrdl 8/faw 24, wasn't that stable? I must say CJR is difficult  B-die and Micron B/E/H is a lot easier to work with


----------



## Dar1usElite (Dec 1, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Okay, try WR/RTP 20/10. Remember trrds 6/trrdl 8/faw 24, wasn't that stable? I must say CJR is difficult  B-die and Micron B/E/H is a lot easier to work with


i thought 6/8/24 was stable, but it didn't end up being stable, sometimes it would pass 20 runs, sometimes it wouldn't. ill try 20/10



Taraquin said:


> Okay, try WR/RTP 20/10. Remember trrds 6/trrdl 8/faw 24, wasn't that stable? I must say CJR is difficult  B-die and Micron B/E/H is a lot easier to work with


but yeah cjr is kicking my arse. it randomly decided it didnt want to remain stable at 16 19 19 19 56 despite passing 20 runs in the past. Im pretty sure i dropped trc to 55 and it didnt help either. but ill try it again at a later date


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## Taraquin (Dec 1, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> i thought 6/8/24 was stable, but it didn't end up being stable, sometimes it would pass 20 runs, sometimes it wouldn't. ill try 20/10
> 
> 
> but yeah cjr is kicking my arse. it randomly decided it didnt want to remain stable at 16 19 19 19 56 despite passing 20 runs in the past. Im pretty sure i dropped trc to 55 and it didnt help either. but ill try it again at a later date


As someone else pointed out: If it is stable in every game etc, don't bother if you get a few rare errors.

I had a Ryzen 3600 with 2x8 rev E a year ago. I had set tRC to 55, seemed fine for hakf a year, not lockups in games, cinebench etc. When I ran Karhu and TM5 first time I got several errors. After setting tRC to 56 all errors went away. What does that say? Stress-stability and real world stability can be 2 different things. If you get a sole error using 6/8/24 and no errors at 8/11/32 I would stick with 6/8/24 since performance is better, but up to you 

Just a suggestion: Try running ram at 1.4v, 1.38v or 1.36V, see if it works. Some CJR-kits have terrible voltage scaling.


----------



## Dar1usElite (Dec 1, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> As someone else pointed out: If it is stable in every game etc, don't bother if you get a few rare errors.
> 
> I had a Ryzen 3600 with 2x8 rev E a year ago. I had set tRC to 55, seemed fine for hakf a year, not lockups in games, cinebench etc. When I ran Karhu and TM5 first time I got several errors. After setting tRC to 56 all errors went away. What does that say? Stress-stability and real world stability can be 2 different things. If you get a sole error using 6/8/24 and no errors at 8/11/32 I would stick with 6/8/24 since performance is better, but up to you
> 
> Just a suggestion: Try running ram at 1.4v, 1.38v or 1.36V, see if it works. Some CJR-kits have terrible voltage scaling.


I did have it at 1.4 originally. I think I upped it thinking it would help stabilise it.


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## tabascosauz (Dec 1, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> I did have it at 1.4 originally. I think I upped it thinking it would help stabilise it.



ime with CJR voltage doesn't do much past 1.4V. Throw as much voltage at it as you want, it probably won't budge. I spent some time back in the day trying to stabilize 3800CL16 and it just couldn't get rid of the errors. 3733CL16 was repeatedly fine at 1.38V.


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## Dar1usElite (Dec 1, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> ime with CJR voltage doesn't do much past 1.4V. Throw as much voltage at it as you want, it probably won't budge. I spent some time back in the day trying to stabilize 3800CL16 and it just couldn't get rid of the errors. 3733CL16 was repeatedly fine at 1.38V.


Yeah it seems that way.


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## Taraquin (Dec 1, 2021)

Dar1usElite said:


> I did have it at 1.4 originally. I think I upped it thinking it would help stabilise it.


Try lowering it  On another forum I talked to a guy with 2x16 cjr at 3800 and he ran 18-21-21-21 51 rc but managed 4/6/16 rrd/faw and 4/12 wtr at 1.35V. Seems there is big variance in CJR. 

You run surprisingly good primaries for CJR, many struggle with below 20 rcdrd and rp, but some subs like wr/rtp, rrd/faw and wtr are weirdly bad.


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## Dar1usElite (Dec 1, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Try lowering it  On another forum I talked to a guy with 2x16 cjr at 3800 and he ran 18-21-21-21 51 rc but managed 4/6/16 rrd/faw and 4/12 wtr at 1.35V. Seems there is big variance in CJR.
> 
> You run surprisingly good primaries for CJR, many struggle with below 20 rcdrd and rp, but some subs like wr/rtp, rrd/faw and wtr are weirdly bad.


Yeah I seem to be in that weirdly bad category for the sub timings. Like I said I can do 16 19 19 19 56 and it won't crash in games or benchmarks. I think I'll just tinker with it and accept it will throw some errors. I had it down to the low 58ns range, not sure if it will go much lower.


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## lunatik (Dec 3, 2021)

Hi, I've seen so many different recommendations for soc/ccd/iod/vddp voltage above 3800.. thought i'd just share my dr kit 4000/2000 cl16 (bios set voltages: soc 1.2v, ccd 1.09v, iod 1.12v, vddp 1v, i could probably lower them by 0.01-0.02v but more would result in instant whea errors, i don't remember the bios/chipset version where i initially tested it)

This is what i used daily for the last 6 months, haven't noticed any "degradation" or smth like that. Just be cautious if you are afraid of it..(those voltages are very close to "safe" max limits tho, also depending on the mobo you could have different set voltages in bios vs what you actually get)

Edit: i re ran some tests and with newer bios version and chipset i can actually lower ccd to 0.95v, iod to 1.05v and soc to 1.15v (idk what has changed since then, this didn't work before)

This was done 4.75 all core with the DR kit 4000/2000 cl16 https://www.3dmark.com/spy/24295422

My daily: 5600x on a 25 euro cooler, 4.65ghz all core with llc3  - 1.27V (ctr/hydra has showed my chip being both bronze and silver depending on different versions)

EDIT: 1.48V on ram. I don't think the L3 cache is correct since i'm on win11.. (on windows 10 it was 600+ on all with 4.85ghz)


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## JawnyS (Dec 5, 2021)

i can get 3800 with tight timings on my 5900x and x570 hero 8 wifi, but anything over 1900if i cant boot, and if i can boot, it is super slow. surely my ram as room for it,


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## Taraquin (Dec 5, 2021)

JawnyS said:


> i cant get 3800 with tight timings on my 5900x and x570 hero 8 wifi, but anything over 1900if i cant boot, and if i can boot, it is super slow. surely my ram as room for it,


With those timings at 3800 you don't have much to gain at 4000+ anyways. As for timings try getting 2T gdm off stable. Remember that RAS+RP=RC, WR=2*TRP (with gdm 12/6 is best you can do since gdm rounds up CL, CWL, WR and RTP to even numbers) and RFC should be divideable by 16 on 16gb kits so 256 or 272  might be better.


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## JawnyS (Dec 5, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> With those timings at 3800 you don't have much to gain at 4000+ anyways. As for timings try getting 2T gdm off stable. Remember that RAS+RP=RC, WR=2*TRP (with gdm 12/6 is best you can do since gdm rounds up CL, CWL, WR and RTP to even numbers) and RFC should be divideable by 16 on 16gb kits so 256 or 272  might be better.


ok well im stable with those timing, im just disapointed i cant go over 3800 on this cpu, i havent tried 2t, is it better to go for 2t or 1t with gdm,  i tried to lower trc to 37 or 38, but i get memory errors, 40 was the lowest i could get with the other timings that low, im at 1.49 dram voltage, ill try it 2t to see if my latency is better, and ill try trfc to 256 instaed of 260, i have 16 gb stick 2 stick

i tried with 2t gdm disabled, i get the exact same latency than with gdm on and 1t, ill test 2t in warzone to see if i see a difference in fps


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## Taraquin (Dec 6, 2021)

JawnyS said:


> ok well im stable with those timing, im just disapointed i cant go over 3800 on this cpu, i havent tried 2t, is it better to go for 2t or 1t with gdm,  i tried to lower trc to 37 or 38, but i get memory errors, 40 was the lowest i could get with the other timings that low, im at 1.49 dram voltage, ill try it 2t to see if my latency is better, and ill try trfc to 256 instaed of 260, i have 16 gb stick 2 stick
> 
> i tried with 2t gdm disabled, i get the exact same latency than with gdm on and 1t, ill test 2t in warzone to see if i see a difference in fps


Sometimes flat 14 can work better, 14 14 14 14, but might be better with what you have. 2T is often a bit better, but slightly harder to get stable. Try setting RAS to 27, if you use 2T you can use RTP 5 and WR 10, on gdm lowest is RTP 6 since gdm rounds up. As for RFC it is a cycle timing so 257 to 272 should give same performance since it's in same cycle. 256 can give a bit better performance, while 272 should give same as 260 but require less voltage. 

You should try drvstr 24 20 24 24 if running 2T. You can also try 1T gdm off, but that is much harder to run, for me 40 20 30 24 made it run. Anything else got errors or did not boot. 

I run 4000cl16, but it requires a bit more soc and iod volt and that eats a bit from the core budget so performance is only marginally better than 3800cl15.


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## JawnyS (Dec 7, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Sometimes flat 14 can work better, 14 14 14 14, but might be better with what you have. 2T is often a bit better, but slightly harder to get stable. Try setting RAS to 27, if you use 2T you can use RTP 5 and WR 10, on gdm lowest is RTP 6 since gdm rounds up. As for RFC it is a cycle timing so 257 to 272 should give same performance since it's in same cycle. 256 can give a bit better performance, while 272 should give same as 260 but require less voltage.
> 
> You should try drvstr 24 20 24 24 if running 2T. You can also try 1T gdm off, but that is much harder to run, for me 40 20 30 24 made it run. Anything else got errors or did not boot.
> 
> I run 4000cl16, but it requires a bit more soc and iod volt and that eats a bit from the core budget so performance is only marginally better than 3800cl15.


whats is your latency on aida with 4000cl16, im at 55 ns to 55.4 ns, depending on the run, but for me 4000mhz wont work somehow even 3933. i know my cpu can do it, and this ram kit is xmp 4000cl16. on my x570 steellegend i was able to get another kit stable at 3933 cl 16, but on the hero wifi i cant, anything over 3800 gets me a super slow boot


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## tabascosauz (Dec 7, 2021)

JawnyS said:


> whats is your latency on aida with 4000cl16, im at 55 ns to 55.4 ns, depending on the run, but for me 4000mhz wont work somehow even 3933. i know my cpu can do it, and this ram kit is xmp 4000cl16. on my x570 steellegend i was able to get another kit stable at 3933 cl 16, but on the hero wifi i cant, anything over 3800 gets me a super slow boot



Latency is a little high for 3800CL14 but I have similar issues at CL14 and I suspect that there's something fishy going on - I run 5900X with dual rank B-die as well (3600CL14 G.skill). Either Asus boards' memory topology, a limitation of the 5900X specifically, or just a Ryzen issue?

At 3800 flat 14s I'm at 54.4-55.0 but generally 54.8.

At 3800 flat 15 2T (which I run now bc it only needs 1.42V compared to 1.51V for CL14), I'm at 54.7-54.9, and much more consistent.

CL14 still gets consistently better bandwidth by a bit, it's just the latency number that doesnt move. I know @freeagent has observed the same phenomenon on his 5900X before but he runs 4x8GB.

It's not an issue of VDIMM, VSOC, or any of the minor voltages either, they're just fine and increasing them does nothing. The profile is stable and IF is stable, just latency.


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## freeagent (Dec 7, 2021)

With my 5900X I get my best latency at 1900 1:1 15-15-15-15-36 2T.. shockingly enough.. 52-53ns. My 3200C14 has been to 4200C14.. something about C14.. doesn't seem to like it anymore.. maybe something with the last couple of AGESA updates? Purely speculation on my part.. Could also be a settings issue, but probably not.. now that I am thinking about it, my 5600X got its lowest latency at 4200C15 lol.. weird eh?

But AIDA isn't telling us the whole story. You need to run things like Super Pi 32m and a couple of others that are bundled with the Benchmate program, as well as Linpack Xtreme.. love dem GFlops...

I got my fastest 32M passes with C14 iirc.









Edit again:

Shite, well call me a liar. I thought that 5900X screen was flat 15s.. if it was it would have been a 53ns-53.4ns pass. With 2T I can lean on TRFC a little harder..


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## JawnyS (Dec 7, 2021)

freeagent said:


> With my 5900X I get my best latency at 1900 1:1 15-15-15-15-36 2T.. shockingly enough.. 52-53ns. My 3200C14 has been to 4200C14.. something about C14.. doesn't seem to like it anymore.. maybe something with the last couple of AGESA updates? Purely speculation on my part.. Could also be a settings issue, but probably not.. now that I am thinking about it, my 5600X got its lowest latency at 4200C15 lol.. weird eh?
> 
> But AIDA isn't telling us the whole story. You need to run things like Super Pi 32m and a couple of others that are bundled with the Benchmate program, as well as Linpack Xtreme.. love dem GFlops...
> 
> ...


what voltage do you use of dram for these timings, 49 ns thats golden bro 2100 if, wow lucky you


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## freeagent (Dec 8, 2021)

JawnyS said:


> what voltage do you use of dram for these timings, 49 ns thats golden bro 2100 if, wow lucky you


Thanks man, but not what I would call stable, it was 1.6v, and would fail TM5.. If I loosened them up a bit I could probably get them stable. 2100FCLk was not stable either, I can nail down 2000 though. Any more than 2K throw hardware errors pretty much as soon as the system sees any kind of load


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## JawnyS (Dec 8, 2021)

yeah i bet with 1.6 volt it gets to hot to be stable, im at 1.49 with my timing and while gaming its between 45-50 degrees my ram and it stays stable, hcl mem test pass 400 % but i cant get my latency below 55ns, im gonna try to fiddle around with cr2 instead of 1 with gdm on


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## Taraquin (Dec 8, 2021)

JawnyS said:


> whats is your latency on aida with 4000cl16, im at 55 ns to 55.4 ns, depending on the run, but for me 4000mhz wont work somehow even 3933. i know my cpu can do it, and this ram kit is xmp 4000cl16. on my x570 steellegend i was able to get another kit stable at 3933 cl 16, but on the hero wifi i cant, anything over 3800 gets me a super slow boot


Around 52ns.


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## freeagent (Dec 8, 2021)

JawnyS said:


> yeah i bet with 1.6 volt it gets to hot to be stable, im at 1.49 with my timing and while gaming its between 45-50 degrees my ram and it stays stable, hcl mem test pass 400 % but i cant get my latency below 55ns, im gonna try to fiddle around with cr2 instead of 1 with gdm on


My memory has never seen 45-50 before. I try not to let them go over 35.


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## DLD (Dec 8, 2021)

Bumped up to 4000 / 2000. Got an error after 10 min in Karhu so bumped up the voltage slightly to 1.465 an let it run again. Would be nice if I can get this 100% stable


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## freeagent (Dec 8, 2021)

You are being a little soft on the SOC, give it moar 

Maybe try 1.156 with lvl3 llc


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## DLD (Dec 8, 2021)

Ran Karhu for an hour without an error, but getting a lot of WHEA errors now. That was at 1.47v.


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## JawnyS (Dec 9, 2021)

freeagent said:


> My memory has never seen 45-50 before. I try not to let them go over 35.


how can you achieve such low temps with 1.6 on dram... my cpu and gpu are watercooled custom loops i have good airflow in my case and in warzone my ram temp is 45 degrees at 1.49 volt


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## freeagent (Dec 9, 2021)

Define good airflow.. are we talking 50cfm? Less? I’m a little above that.. there should be roughly 400cfm flowing through my case when shit gets real..


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## DLD (Dec 9, 2021)

Set my IF back to 1900 and left RAM at 2000mhz and now there are no WHEA errors. So it seems my CPU doesn't like 2000 IF


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## tabascosauz (Dec 9, 2021)

JawnyS said:


> how can you achieve such low temps with 1.6 on dram... my cpu and gpu are watercooled custom loops i have good airflow in my case and in warzone my ram temp is 45 degrees at 1.49 volt



freeagent has a lot of air moving through his case. And I mean, a LOT. It's like the bypass chamber in a turbofan in there   I have my CPU and GPU in the loop and I'm at about 46 max in the most demanding games I have (currently that would be a tie between MW2019, Halo Infinite, and Borderlands 3).

The threshold for Bdie thermally destabilizing is different for everyone. Mine is 50C, so as long as I stay below that I'm fine.


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## freeagent (Dec 10, 2021)

Now that my fans are on a controller it is so much nicer! My CPU fan is a TY-143 that revs to 2500, and my front intakes are 2x 140mm iPPC 3K, the rear exhaust is a 120mm iPPC 3K, and I also have a 140mm TL-D14X in the basement that revs to only 1800 I think.. but now they all run together lol.. before they were all over the place I had to tune them all individually if I didn’t want them revving to 3K. Which I don’t 

My Meshify C is sealed at the top, and no pci covers.. she flows 

Who needs a Torrent


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## poisxpto (Dec 20, 2021)

stable like that (3800CL14);


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## schidddy (Dec 20, 2021)

i got no problems booting into windows at IF 2000 on  5900x
Soc at 1.13v vddg and vddp at 0,9v IOD at 1,05v
Prime Large FFT and MSI Kombustor to get mixed load Running without at problem no crashes, but i get frequently about 101 whea erros once every 5min
is this save to run, does anyone having experience running your PC with those errors popin up but having a stable system?

edit whea starts already directly at 1933mhz and practically no change on error count till 2000mhz.

@poisxpto
nice, whats your ram Voltage running like this. My b Die will do cl14 at 3800mhz only at 1,58v, did u chance ProcODT by yourself down to 36.9?


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## poisxpto (Dec 21, 2021)

schidddy said:


> i got no problems booting into windows at IF 2000 on  5900x
> Soc at 1.13v vddg and vddp at 0,9v IOD at 1,05v
> Prime Large FFT and MSI Kombustor to get mixed load Running without at problem no crashes, but i get frequently about 101 whea erros once every 5min
> is this save to run, does anyone having experience running your PC with those errors popin up but having a stable system?
> ...


1.5 ram voltage.
for ProcODT i didnt change, it was auto. should i change ?


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## schidddy (Dec 21, 2021)

poisxpto said:


> 1.5 ram voltage.
> for ProcODT i didnt change, it was auto. should i change ?


no leave it as it is, mine is set to 48.0ohm on auto and i cant get even close to your timings with my trident neo z 3600cl16 b die kit its dual rank 2x16gb)
whats the kit u own exactly?


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## poisxpto (Dec 22, 2021)

schidddy said:


> no leave it as it is, mine is set to 48.0ohm on auto and i cant get even close to your timings with my trident neo z 3600cl16 b die kit its dual rank 2x16gb)
> whats the kit u own exactly?











						DARK PRO x 8PACK DDR4 desktop memory,RAM
					

High-efficiency forging type heat transfer cooling layer




					www.teamgroupinc.com
				



Dark Pro "8Pack Ripped Edition", DDR4-3600, CL14 - 16 GB Dual Kit​


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## Taraquin (Dec 25, 2021)

Seems like there is a lot of variation between CPUs. Me and 2 friends have tested 3 5600X now:
Mine: 4133/2066 max, no WHEA 19, CO runs all cores at - 30 up to +50 pbo. 
Friend 1: 3733/1866 max, loads of WHEA 19 at 3800/1900 or higher, CO -12, -15, -21, -26, -30, -30.
Friend 2: 380/1900 max, loads of WHEA 19 above. He has nit tried CO yet. 

I use at 2 dimm mATX so that might explain no WHEA 19s vs the 2 others who has fullsize B450 and B550. All if us have Agesa 1.2.0.3.

My CPU and IOD seems close to golden sample, friend no 1 has a turd CPU and a bit below avg IO-die, no 2 we don't know CPU quality yet, but IO seems avg.


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## Mussels (Dec 27, 2021)

Bumparump


So theres another thread with some nice opensource little programs that allow editing and writing XMP values right onto your memory

Creating custom XMP profile for DDR4 | TechPowerUp Forums


It works.
The custom values we worked out in this thread many pages back, are now saved into my previously empty XMP2 slot.


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## Taraquin (Dec 27, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Bumparump
> 
> 
> So theres another thread with some nice opensource little programs that allow editing and writing XMP values right onto your memory
> ...


Would be awesome if you found a stable, fast profile with your wanted tweaks and saved it. My RAM unfortunately already has 2 profiles. DDR5 comes with 4 profiles I think, lots of room for tweaking there


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## Mussels (Dec 28, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Would be awesome if you found a stable, fast profile with your wanted tweaks and saved it. My RAM unfortunately already has 2 profiles. DDR5 comes with 4 profiles I think, lots of room for tweaking there


Everything saves except TRFC for some reason

That said, having a 3800 profile built in is freaking awesome


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## freeagent (Jan 10, 2022)

I think she is stable.. I have other shots but OCCT is good enough for now 





1.55v on the stix.

This one I let her boost:


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## FXBrazil (Jan 19, 2022)

Hey Guys!

First of all thanks for the messages on this Thread. Most of them helped me stabilize my set up 
I have attached the image of how it is right now. Still think there is room to improve my timings to achieve better latency on memory (was getting 53.7 nanoseconds running Aida64 in Safe Mode).

In summary: happy with the results, but would highly appreciate your expert tips 

Lots of Love


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## oobymach (Feb 17, 2022)

Got 1900fclk stable with 1.15v soc, 1933 won't post.


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## Ibizadr (Feb 17, 2022)

oobymach said:


> Got 1900fclk stable with 1.15v soc, 1933 won't post.
> 
> View attachment 236986


Twr = 2x trtp
And I think you don't need too high voltage on Vddp or iod.
Use Aida 64 to see your latency and improves. And how you know it was stable? You use tm5? Or hci?


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## oobymach (Feb 17, 2022)

Ibizadr said:


> Twr = 2x trtp
> And I think you don't need too high voltage on Vddp or iod.
> Use Aida 64 to see your latency and improves. And how you know it was stable? You use tm5? Or hci?


Vddp on auto same with iod and ccd, stress tested with p95 so blend of ram and cpu, p95 failed workers @ 1900fclk with 1.1v soc but no failures after boosting soc voltage to 1.15


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## Ibizadr (Feb 17, 2022)

oobymach said:


> Vddp on auto same with iod and ccd, stress tested with p95 so blend of ram and cpu, p95 failed workers @ 1900fclk with 1.1v soc but no failures after boosting soc voltage to 1.15


try tRRDS = 4 tRRD_L= 6 , tFAW=16 ,tWTRS=4, tRFC1=378 ,TRFC2=281, TRFC4=173
Vddp=900

Test and see if you got some improvements


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## oobymach (Feb 18, 2022)

Ibizadr said:


> try tRRDS = 4 tRRD_L= 6 , tFAW=16 ,tWTRS=4, tRFC1=378 ,TRFC2=281, TRFC4=173
> Vddp=900
> 
> Test and see if you got some improvements


This be a hynix kit so it actually performs better with a bit of slack in the timings, also cant go below 380ns trfc or I have problems. These are the same timings I was using for 3600mhz so I'm a little surprised they run fine at 3800mhz with only a small bump in trfc to keep the 380ns, factory clocks are 550ns for this kit.

Also since switching to the 5600x my memory read has gone up around 10gbps from the 3600x and latency has improved by about 10ns, checked with Aida64. Tried tighter timings and the result was rapidly failing workers in p95.


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## Ibizadr (Feb 18, 2022)

oobymach said:


> This be a hynix kit so it actually performs better with a bit of slack in the timings, also cant go below 380ns trfc or I have problems. These are the same timings I was using for 3600mhz so I'm a little surprised they run fine at 3800mhz with only a small bump in trfc to keep the 380ns, factory clocks are 550ns for this kit.
> 
> Also since switching to the 5600x my memory read has gone up around 10gbps from the 3600x and latency has improved by about 10ns, checked with Aida64. Tried tighter timings and the result was rapidly failing workers in p95.


Aim for 300ns and maybe 18-18-18 with a small bump in voltage


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## PaulB (Feb 25, 2022)

I have a Gskill Trident Royal B-Die kit with DOCP of 3600mhz CL16. I haven't had much luck with overclocking using the DRAM calculator. I have posted my 'best-to-date' stable settings, but these are based of a motherboard preset with a DRAM voltage of 1.45. Any suggested tunings would be great. I feel like I should be able to achieve a much better latency...


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## freeagent (Feb 26, 2022)

Yup.. she's still good


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## Taraquin (Feb 26, 2022)

PaulB said:


> I have a Gskill Trident Royal B-Die kit with DOCP of 3600mhz CL16. I haven't had much luck with overclocking using the DRAM calculator. I have posted my 'best-to-date' stable settings, but these are based of a motherboard preset with a DRAM voltage of 1.45. Any suggested tunings would be great. I feel like I should be able to achieve a much better latency...


You can probably run 3800, want to try? If not you can do the following at 3600:
Ras 28
Rc 42
Rrds 4
Rrdl 6
Faw 16
Wtrs 4
Wtrl 12
Wr 12
Rtp 6
Rfc 256
Rdrdscl 4
Wrwrscl 4
Rdwr 8
Wrrd 3

Rest as they are.

If you want to try 3800 disable gear down mode and set 2t. Set first timings as 15 15 15 15
Ras 30
Rc 45
Rfc 272
Rdwr 9

Rest as I wrote above 



PaulB said:


> Thank you for the response. I wasn't able to boot with the 3800 recommendation. I have tried many different 3800 configs, but it just wont take. The 3600 settings worked, but the first pass through Aida64 was moving in a very bad direction.


Look at ramspeed. You are running 2133


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## PaulB (Feb 26, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> You can probably run 3800, want to try? If not you can do the following at 3600:
> Ras 28
> Rc 42
> Rrds 4
> ...


Thank you for the suggestions, I have more testing to do, but initially the read and latency is slightly improved. I was not able to boot the 3800 settings although I am not too concerned as my plan when I bought the sticks was to always run at 3600mhz. I was just hoping that due to the B-Die I would be able to get down to CL14, which I have, but I just thought that there was a possibility of a lower latency. I have reattached the zen timings and the first Aida64 pass. Thanks again.


----------



## Taraquin (Feb 26, 2022)

PaulB said:


> Thank you for the suggestions, I have more testing to do, but initially the read and latency is slightly improved. I was not able to boot the 3800 settings although I am not too concerned as my plan when I bought the sticks was to always run at 3600mhz. I was just hoping that due to the B-Die I would be able to get down to CL14, which I have, but I just thought that there was a possibility of a lower latency. I have reattached the zen timings and the first Aida64 pass. Thanks again.


Your aida has improved latency by 1ns, but should have been around 57-58ns. Do you have a lot of bliatware? Try running aida 3 times in safety mode, see how it goes. If latency is below 60ns then you have a lot of bloat in windows. If it's still above 60ns you can try soc 1.1v, iod 1.06v, ccd 0.98v, vddp 0.94v, see if it helps.


----------



## 529th (Mar 1, 2022)

Any secret to running GDM Disabled 1T with Dual Rank above JDEC specs?  I can only run my B-die kit at 1333:2666


----------



## Ferrum Master (Mar 1, 2022)

529th said:


> Any secret to running GDM Disabled 1T with Dual Rank above JDEC specs?  I can only run my B-die kit at 1333:2666



Depends on your board maker and CPU sample. Fill out your exact specs and post current settings.


----------



## oobymach (Mar 1, 2022)

529th said:


> Any secret to running GDM Disabled 1T with Dual Rank above JDEC specs?  I can only run my B-die kit at 1333:2666


Boot into windows with GDM disabled and 2t set, reboot and set 1t again and GDM should remain disabled.


----------



## 529th (Mar 1, 2022)

Ferrum Master said:


> Depends on your board maker and CPU sample. Fill out your exact specs and post current settings.


X570 Xtreme, bios F35, cl14 3800 DR kit 1.5v, 5800X.  Using Ryzen Calculator I have to use DRAM PCB revision A3/A2/B2 to get the right timings.  Other than that everything is left at Auto except VSOC @ 1.025v, and VDIMM @ 1.45v for 1333/2666 GDM disabled 1T  Simply increasing those two voltages and increasing 1:1 speeds isn't stable.  Highest IF stable speed is 1866.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 1, 2022)

I have not been able to pass 1900 running DR.. Best DR I can do in a stable fashion with my 5600X is 1833, so if you got 1866 stable with your 5800.. good job. My 5900X will do 1900 with DR and SR, but anything faster than that is not stable for me. 1933+ in DR will not even post for me. It is a serious slap to the pee pee that I cant do more than 1900 with SR on the 5900. My 5600 is good for 2K stable, and can bench at 2100 1:1. That CPU is kinda funny like that. Bet yours will do 2K with an SR setup.. but DR is still better, even if it is at a slightly slower speed.


----------



## Ferrum Master (Mar 1, 2022)

529th said:


> X570 Xtreme, bios F35, cl14 3800 DR kit 1.5v, 5800X.  Using Ryzen Calculator I have to use DRAM PCB revision A3/A2/B2 to get the right timings.  Other than that everything is left at Auto except VSOC @ 1.025v, and VDIMM @ 1.45v for 1333/2666 GDM disabled 1T  Simply increasing those two voltages and increasing 1:1 speeds isn't stable.  Highest IF stable speed is 1866.



My first suggestion, despite what all might say... forget about Ryzen Calculator. It works like crap. I had found out my stables on few kits just by trial and error, it doesn't work well with Ryzen 5000.

Just find a starting spot. Each frequency step actually has different procODT, rtt and clock drive strengths to pass the boot and those are the key elements to survive RAM training, RAM stability ie timings come next, you can set them very loose, there are very crucial timings, If you miss the tRDR and tWRW pairs, you also won't boot if you miss those. Gigabyte also has it own attitude also, I had GB as my previous board, I want a vocation from them. I would suggest 3200 or 3400 as start point. Voltages actually doesn't matter that much, those come later to make it PRIME stable.

Also best solution was to copycat timing tables from similar motherboard and agesa users and try them out. If some settings start to post, then tweak them till those are stable. There are many examples here and AIDA thread.

These are mine for example. I cannot boot past 3400 without GDM at all, but the penalty ain't that large. Just remember to use even numbers with GDM as any odd ones will be counted +1 to make it round.


----------



## 529th (Mar 1, 2022)

My old 3800X had a strong IF.  Could do 1900.

Here's my other UEFI/Bios profile for 1833/3666.  I don't like running long stability tests all day long so I settled with 1833/3666.  With Intel Memory Latency checker it scores 69ns for some reason.


----------



## Taraquin (Mar 2, 2022)

529th said:


> X570 Xtreme, bios F35, cl14 3800 DR kit 1.5v, 5800X.  Using Ryzen Calculator I have to use DRAM PCB revision A3/A2/B2 to get the right timings.  Other than that everything is left at Auto except VSOC @ 1.025v, and VDIMM @ 1.45v for 1333/2666 GDM disabled 1T  Simply increasing those two voltages and increasing 1:1 speeds isn't stable.  Highest IF stable speed is 1866.


Changing Rtts can help and is 8ften required for 1t gdm off, 2t gdm off is easier, try that first


----------



## Verbatim (Mar 31, 2022)

Crucial Ballistix 2x16GB, 3000MHz, CL15 kit

Seems to be stable at those voltages.

3800Mhz, CL16, FCLK 1900Mhz, 1.41v

SOC 1.00v
VDDG CCD 0.880v
VDDG IOD 0.960v
VDDP 0.840v

What about voltages overall this is a good result for thoose voltages ?


----------



## Taraquin (Mar 31, 2022)

Verbatim said:


> Crucial Ballistix 2x16GB, 3000MHz, CL15 kit
> 
> Seems to be stable at those voltages.
> 
> ...


Overall good, but try raising ypur soc voltage a bit, see if aida improves. Iod at 1.00 and soc at 1.08v might make system faster.


----------



## 529th (Mar 31, 2022)

@Verbatim Are you WHEA error free at that IF speed?  Also, have you tried Ryzen Calculator for tighter timing suggestions? My timings were using 'DRAM PCB revision' 'manual' even though it's an A2 PCB revision.


----------



## Verbatim (Apr 2, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Overall good, but try raising ypur soc voltage a bit, see if aida improves. Iod at 1.00 and soc at 1.08v might make system faster.


I tried lower also higher voltages and results are the same. There is no difference in Cinebench, Aida64 or MaxxMem2.



529th said:


> @Verbatim Are you WHEA error free at that IF speed?  Also, have you tried Ryzen Calculator for tighter timing suggestions? My timings were using 'DRAM PCB revision' 'manual' even though it's an A2 PCB revision.


Yes with those timings and voltages there are no errors. Usually i test memory stability with dram calculator memory test and it works. Yes i tried tighter timings and it's stable but for me slightly higher speeds are not so important i'd better will use lower voltages and rock solid stability.

E-die Z11B 19 nm
Part Number C9BJZ CT40A1G8SA-062M:E
Revision Raw Card 0000h B1 8 layers


----------



## 529th (Apr 2, 2022)

Verbatim said:


> Yes with those timings and voltages there are no errors. Usually i test memory stability with dram calculator memory test and it works. Yes i tried tighter timings and it's stable but for me slightly higher speeds are not so important i'd better will use lower voltages and rock solid stability.
> 
> E-die Z11B 19 nm
> Part Number C9BJZ CT40A1G8SA-062M:E
> Revision Raw Card 0000h B1 8 layers



What other tests have you done besides Memory tests?  1900 IF I can pass memory tests but immediately WHEA with OCCT


----------



## DarkPoe (Apr 8, 2022)

4x8 GSkill (Hynix DJR?) 3600 CL16-19-19-38

Whatever I do, I can't seem to hit more than 3733*1.00675 = 3758

If I use 3800, I can't even post... Not even with anything in AUTO... Although I could with a 5600X I had before this


----------



## Taraquin (Apr 9, 2022)

DarkPoe said:


> 4x8 GSkill (Hynix DJR?) 3600 CL16-19-19-38
> 
> Whatever I do, I can't seem to hit more than 3733*1.00675 = 3758
> 
> If I use 3800, I can't even post... Not even with anything in AUTO... Although I could with a 5600X I had before this





DarkPoe said:


> 4x8 GSkill (Hynix DJR?) 3600 CL16-19-19-38
> 
> Whatever I do, I can't seem to hit more than 3733*1.00675 = 3758
> 
> If I use 3800, I can't even post... Not even with anything in AUTO... Although I could with a 5600X I had before this


Tried higher SOC voltage? 4 dimms are hard on the IMC. Try 1.15v soc and 1.08v iod, may do 3800 then.


----------



## oobymach (Apr 9, 2022)

^ This. With 4 dimms higher speeds are harder to hit, try with 2 sticks.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Apr 9, 2022)

Haven't tried beyond 3800/1900 as yet, as I have four DIMMs.


----------



## DarkPoe (Apr 9, 2022)

oobymach said:


> ^ This. With 4 dimms higher speeds are harder to hit, try with 2 sticks.


Well I wouldn't want that since I want to use 32GB


----------



## oobymach (Apr 9, 2022)

DarkPoe said:


> Well I wouldn't want that since I want to use 32GB


Can't recall which mobo it was I was looking at but an AM4 mobo had listed in the specs that high frequency was only guaranteed with 2 sticks and 4 was much lower range so if you want to hit higher frequency you can try to overvolt the soc by a hair and experiment with timings or get a 2x 16gb kit that can guarantee higher frequency.

Your trfc and tfaw may need to go higher than auto would set them for higher frequency, try tfaw 48 and trfc of 500ns or more.


----------



## Taraquin (Apr 9, 2022)

TheLostSwede said:


> Haven't tried beyond 3800/1900 as yet, as I have four DIMMs.
> 
> View attachment 242982 View attachment 242983


A few can do above 1900 with 4 sticks, but you will probably need to up VDD18 voltage. 

I would suggest tuning some timings, lots of unrealised potential  

Ras 27 (ras+rp=rc) 
Rrds/l 6/8
Faw 24
Wr 16
Rtp 8
Wtrs/l 8/12
Scl's 4
Rfc 480 or 496 is better than 490  

 Hynix DJR?


----------



## TheLostSwede (Apr 9, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> A few can do above 1900 with 4 sticks, but you will probably need to up VDD18 voltage.
> 
> I would suggest tuning some timings, lots of unrealised potential
> 
> ...


CJR.


----------



## DarkPoe (Apr 9, 2022)

oobymach said:


> Can't recall which mobo it was I was looking at but an AM4 mobo had listed in the specs that high frequency was only guaranteed with 2 sticks and 4 was much lower range so if you want to hit higher frequency you can try to overvolt the soc by a hair and experiment with timings or get a 2x 16gb kit that can guarantee higher frequency.
> 
> Your trfc and tfaw may need to go higher than auto would set them for higher frequency, try tfaw 48 and trfc of 500ns or more.



I really wouldn't want to spend more and just ditch these to get a little bit of performance... Just want to know if I can squeeze those 3800 as I could with my 5600X (must have had a better IMC?)


----------



## Taraquin (Apr 9, 2022)

TheLostSwede said:


> CJR.


Okay, my suggestions should work for CJR, if you had DJR you might be able to do 464 or 448 rfc, below 480 is hard on CJR.


----------



## DarkPoe (Apr 9, 2022)

On a side note, setting the Memory to 3800 and FCLK to 1866 (not the ideal 1:1 ratio) boots fine... So I guess it is just the IMC


----------



## TheLostSwede (Apr 10, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Okay, my suggestions should work for CJR, if you had DJR you might be able to do 464 or 448 rfc, below 480 is hard on CJR.


480 seems to work. Very slight improvements. Didn't change all the settings.
2000 MHz FCLK was a no go, at least with the same timings.
And I just realised the motherboard switches over to the other CMOS chip after failing to boot at 2000 MHz FCLK...


----------



## Taraquin (Apr 10, 2022)

TheLostSwede said:


> 480 seems to work. Very slight improvements. Didn't change all the settings.
> 2000 MHz FCLK was a no go, at least with the same timings.
> And I just realised the motherboard switches over to the other CMOS chip after failing to boot at 2000 MHz FCLK...
> 
> View attachment 243074View attachment 243075


Rrds must be 6 for faw 24 to work, rrdl can be 8, rtp must be half wr so 8, wtrs okay at 4, wtrl at 12 and rdrdscl/wrwrscl 4. Try that, should net you some BW and perhaps better latency.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Apr 10, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Rrds must be 6 for faw 24 to work, rrdl can be 8, rtp must be half wr so 8, wtrs okay at 4, wtrl at 12 and rdrdscl/wrwrscl 4. Try that, should net you some BW and perhaps better latency.


Here we go. Write speeds are back to 30400 though.







@Taraquin Unfortunately it wasn't stable and I had to ease off a bit.


----------



## Taraquin (Apr 10, 2022)

TheLostSwede said:


> Here we go. Write speeds are back to 30400 though.
> 
> View attachment 243076View attachment 243077
> 
> ...


Rfc 480 may have been the issue, wr/rtp probably not, you also ran on scl at 4, other at 5, both should be 4, rdwr may be better at 9. Wr should always be equal to cl or below, rtp always half wr


----------



## Zakaru91 (Apr 22, 2022)

Hi I have assembled the pc recently, I have looked at all the pages of this discussion and I have found that I have higher voltages than all the screens concerning your configurations, should I worry? currently i ran pbo2 and for the ram i copied the timings of another user and they seem to run smoothly, could you give me some suggestions?


----------



## Ibizadr (Apr 22, 2022)

Zakaru91 said:


> Hi I have assembled the pc recently, I have looked at all the pages of this discussion and I have found that I have higher voltages than all the screens concerning your configurations, should I worry? currently i ran pbo2 and for the ram i copied the timings of another user and they seem to run smoothly, could you give me some suggestions?


Try to run testmem5 with usmus configuration 25 cycles. This 2000 fclk its without whea errors?

My recent changes and results, maybe I can go to lower my Vddp iod and ccd.
Currently Vddp 0.875, iod 1.00, ccd 0.900

Any tips to improve


----------



## Zakaru91 (Apr 22, 2022)

Ibizadr said:


> Try to run testmem5 with usmus configuration 25 cycles. This 2000 fclk its without whea errors?
> 
> My recent changes and results, maybe I can go to lower my Vddp iod and ccd.
> Currently Vddp 0.875, iod 1.00, ccd 0.900
> ...


I ran testmem5 usmus and high anta777 without errors, I have ram 4000 c16 2x8 b die single rank.
As for errors whea I am not aware of, I have read that above the frequency of 3800mhz they should occur but I still do not understand if it is something I should worry about, for now I use the pc about 3 hours a day for video games.
I'll try your timings later. Thanks


----------



## 529th (Apr 22, 2022)

@Zakaru91 It looks like those tests aren't running long enough.  And you need to check if you're having WHEA errors for system stability.  Look in your Event Viewer under Administrative Events.  You can create a custom view that only looks for WHEA errors

EDIT: back on topic my old 5k series chip could only do 1866, 1900 would give WHEA errors, my new 5K series chip can easily do 1900 IF no WHEA errors with Dual Rank Dimms


----------



## Zakaru91 (Apr 23, 2022)

Ibizadr said:


> Try to run testmem5 with usmus configuration 25 cycles. This 2000 fclk its without whea errors?
> 
> My recent changes and results, maybe I can go to lower my Vddp iod and ccd.
> Currently Vddp 0.875, iod 1.00, ccd 0.900
> ...


These timings do not like my ram, so much so that the pc did not start and I had to run the clear cmos, I should look for some guide to set the ram at best I'm sorry because your times sounded good, for now I'm back to 4000 c 16 and from the event log I see kernel errors but not whea


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## 529th (Apr 23, 2022)

@Zakaru91 Are those XMP profile timings?  It looks like the TRFC2 should be left on auto as well as TRFC4 (auto again)  

Or are those Ryzen Calculator timing suggestions?


----------



## Ibizadr (Apr 23, 2022)

Zakaru91 said:


> These timings do not like my ram, so much so that the pc did not start and I had to run the clear cmos, I should look for some guide to set the ram at best I'm sorry because your times sounded good, for now I'm back to 4000 c 16 and from the event log I see kernel errors but not whea


At what voltage you running my timmings


----------



## Zakaru91 (Apr 23, 2022)

529th said:


> @Zakaru91 Are those XMP profile timings?  It looks like the TRFC2 should be left on auto as well as TRFC4 (auto again)
> 
> Or are those Ryzen Calculator timing suggestions?


No the xmp 4000 c16 profile had latency of 65.5 ns, I'm using timings from a user with similar ram to mine.
Now I have set to auto trfc 2 and trfc 4 and check for errors, ty



Ibizadr said:


> At what voltage you running my timmings


1.5V, I don't know how much I could increase the voltage, I have PVS416G400C6K running at 1.45V


----------



## FilipM (Apr 24, 2022)

@Taraquin 

I think I finally could be bothered to fix 4066 with 4 sticks (Cold boot loop/sound issues)

Keeping this as a new daily


----------



## Ohnoitzbryan (Jun 22, 2022)

Hello Guys,

can anyone here help me optimize my RAM Kit?

Ive been running my 4x8 GB 3200mhz c14 modules @ 3400mhz with 1.38v

I would like to use 3600mhz but it would require around 1.45v in order to not crash or get errors in OCCT.

I didnt touch the SoC yet which is set to AUTO (1.1v) and usualy hits a max of around 1.08v.


----------



## Taraquin (Jun 22, 2022)

Ohnoitzbryan said:


> Hello Guys,
> 
> can anyone here help me optimize my RAM Kit?
> 
> ...


Ras 28
Rc 42
Rrds 4
Rrdl 6
Faw 16
Wtrs 4
Wtrl 8
Wr 12
Rtp 6
Rdrdscl 4
Wrwrscl 4
Rdwr 10
Wrrd 3


----------



## Ohnoitzbryan (Jun 22, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Ras 28
> Rc 42
> Rrds 4
> Rrdl 6
> ...


Thank you!!
I will def give this a try.

BTW: is 1.45v a safe voltage for 24/7 usage ? 
I know that its possible to go beyond that voltage but honestly im fine with 3600mhz and tight timings.

Regarding the SoC, should i keep this on AUTO or manually put it around 1.1v? 
I saw that AUTO can become a issue with higher frequency 4000 +mhz.


----------



## Taraquin (Jun 22, 2022)

Ohnoitzbryan said:


> Thank you!!
> I will def give this a try.
> 
> BTW: is 1.45v a safe voltage for 24/7 usage ?
> ...


Try 1.1v manual, it may work fine with lower than that. Check up on VDDG IOD, CCD and VDDP voltage, those should be max 1.05, 1.00 and 0.9. Some motherboards runs VDDP at 1.1v which is way too high.


----------



## Ohnoitzbryan (Jun 22, 2022)

I checked within RM if the values are in range. Seems to be fine even tho i use AUTO settings on most values within my BIOS.


----------



## Taraquin (Jun 22, 2022)

Ohnoitzbryan said:


> I checked within RM if the values are in range. Seems to be fine even tho i use AUTO settings on most values within my BIOS.
> 
> View attachment 252012


Lower your RFC  Rest looks good.


----------



## mstenholm (Jun 22, 2022)

So now you just need to set 1.1V and 1.45V and test. Yes it is safe for b-dies. People run them at +1.5V and some are even 1.45V XMP.


----------



## Ohnoitzbryan (Jun 22, 2022)

Really appreciate the assistance! 


Taraquin said:


> Lower your RFC  Rest looks good.


Any recommendation for the RFC values ?



mstenholm said:


> So now you just need to set 1.1V and 1.45V and test. Yes it is safe for b-dies. People run them at +1.5V and some are even 1.45V XMP.


I changed the SoC from AUTO to the 1.1v manually to be on the safe side. RAM is set to 1.45v and i ran OCCT for a short time earlier today (1hour).

Temperature wise in OCCT it can get quiet warm ( 60C ) , Corsair recommends to think about active cooling at around 70C and the modules are rated up to 90C (according to their response via mail)

During normal usage (Browsing,Gaming,cinebench) they seem to be in the low 40s.

@Taraquin wanted to say thank you again for your assistance!

I lowered the RFC values, gonna run stability test for a few hours.


----------



## Taraquin (Jun 23, 2022)

240 on RFC may work, but 256 is quite good already  The next room for improvement is trying to get it working with GDM off or trying higher speeds. Maybe 3800 can work?


----------



## Ohnoitzbryan (Jun 23, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> 240 on RFC may work, but 256 is quite good already  The next room for improvement is trying to get it working with GDM off or trying higher speeds. Maybe 3800 can work?


Bad news, 2nd run of OCCT gave 1 Error after 50 minutes.


----------



## Taraquin (Jun 23, 2022)

Ohnoitzbryan said:


> Bad news, 2nd run of OCCT gave 1 Error after 50 minutes.


Try setting ram voltage 0.01v higher.


----------



## Ohnoitzbryan (Jun 23, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Try setting ram voltage 0.01v higher.



ill give it a shot.
Curently running another test with my old frequency of 3400mhz @ 1.38v which ive used in the past but i kept the tight timings.

Gonna see if this runs stable, then im gonna try what you mentioned and go back to the 3600mhz @1.46v.

Would have been too sweet if it would have worked flawless on the first attempt. 

_1.46v has been stable for 90 minutes so far within OCCT, ill have to wait and see if it stays this way over a longer period of time._


----------



## Taraquin (Jun 23, 2022)

Ohnoitzbryan said:


> ill give it a shot.
> Curently running another test with my old frequency of 3400mhz @ 1.38v which ive used in the past but i kept the tight timings.
> 
> Gonna see if this runs stable, then im gonna try what you mentioned and go back to the 3600mhz @1.46v.
> ...


Ryzen scales good up to 3800. You can basically run identical timings except CL, RCDRD, RP, RAS, RC and RFC which must by increased if speed goes up.

Generally
3400cl14 equals 3600cl15 and 3800cl16 in latency, but bandwith is higher on higher speed so gamingperformance increases. For every 200MHz increase you must raise the 3 first timings by 1, RAS/RC by 2 and RFC by 15-30.


----------



## Ohnoitzbryan (Jun 23, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Ryzen scales good up to 3800. You can basically run identical timings except CL, RCDRD, RP, RAS, RC and RFC which must by increased if speed goes up.
> 
> Generally
> 3400cl14 equals 3600cl15 and 3800cl16 in latency, but bandwith is higher on higher speed so gamingperformance increases. For every 200MHz increase you must raise the 3 first timings by 1, RAS/RC by 2 and RFC by 15-30.



I tested the system for 2 more hours and it has been stable so far, also tried some gaming afterwards.

Wanted to give 3800mhz a try but my PC wouldnt keep the settings, it turned off and restarted twice before reverting to default settings.


----------



## P4-630 (Jun 23, 2022)

What is your max infinity fabric on ryzen 5000? *September 2021 edition*

Bout time for a new 2022 thread or no?


----------



## Taraquin (Jun 23, 2022)

Ohnoitzbryan said:


> I tested the system for 2 more hours and it has been stable so far, also tried some gaming afterwards.
> 
> Wanted to give 3800mhz a try but my PC wouldnt keep the settings, it turned off and restarted twice before reverting to default settings.


You can try 3800/1900, soc 1.15v, 1.05v iod
CL 16
RCD 16
RP 16
RAS 32
RC 48
RFC 280
Keep rest as is.


----------



## freeagent (Jun 23, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> What is your max infinity fabric on ryzen 5000? *September 2021 edition*
> 
> Bout time for a new 2022 thread or no?


Nah, nothing has changed. Most people top out at 1800-1900, some can do 2K, some a little more.. but by the looks of things nothing has changed. Maybe with AM5.. not going to hold my breath though as I will probably make my way back to Intel around that time.. we’ll see.


----------



## Ohnoitzbryan (Jun 23, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> You can try 3800/1900, soc 1.15v, 1.05v iod
> CL 16
> RCD 16
> RP 16
> ...


I appreciate it, it must have been the voltage on the iod.
I was able to boot and been running OCCT again for the last 15 minutes.

Im having a question btw.. I checked within AIDA64, my Bandwith increased more but my latency didnt get affected at all in a negative way, its still below 60ns even tho CL was changed from 14 to 16.
I always thought that especially CL has the highest impact on latency ?


----------



## Taraquin (Jun 24, 2022)

Ohnoitzbryan said:


> I appreciate it, it must have been the voltage on the iod.
> I was able to boot and been running OCCT again for the last 15 minutes.
> 
> Im having a question btw.. I checked within AIDA64, my Bandwith increased more but my latency didnt get affected at all in a negative way, its still below 60ns even tho CL was changed from 14 to 16.
> ...


Aida scales latency with ram speed. What I would do next is try to disable gdm and run 1t, run stability test after disabling gdm. If unstable try setting DrvStr to 30 20 24 24, 40 20 24 24 or 40 20 30 24. If that don't work try gdm 2t. Next is trying 15 15 16 15 ras 30 rc 45, cwl 14. If that works try 15 15 15 15, ras/rc/cwl same. Next then is rfc 270, 260, 250 etc. Gdm makes cl and cwl run even numbers, cl14 at 3800 takes a lot if voltage and cooling so I recommend cl15 first.


----------



## Ohnoitzbryan (Jun 24, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Aida scales latency with ram speed. What I would do next is try to disable gdm and run 1t, run stability test after disabling gdm. If unstable try setting DrvStr to 30 20 24 24, 40 20 24 24 or 40 20 30 24. If that don't work try gdm 2t. Next is trying 15 15 16 15 ras 30 rc 45, cwl 14. If that works try 15 15 15 15, ras/rc/cwl same. Next then is rfc 270, 260, 250 etc. Gdm makes cl and cwl run even numbers, cl14 at 3800 takes a lot if voltage and cooling so I recommend cl15 first.


Hello again!

i was not able to boot the machine with GDM off + 1T , i tried it will all the DrvStr combinations provided.

I put DrvStr back on AUTO turned GDM off and set 2T.

I skipped the 15 15 16 15 timings and instantly went for a test with 15 15 15 15.

OCCT ran for around 90 minutes without errors.


----------



## Taraquin (Jun 24, 2022)

Ohnoitzbryan said:


> Hello again!
> 
> i was not able to boot the machine with GDM off + 1T , i tried it will all the DrvStr combinations provided.
> 
> ...


Looks very good, latency is a bit high, many background prosesses? Try aida in safemode, see how that goes


----------



## Ohnoitzbryan (Jun 24, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Looks very good, latency is a bit high, many background prosesses? Try aida in safemode, see how that goes



I dont have much running in the background.

Argus Monitor for Fan Control
DisplayCal
MSI AB + RTSS
SoundBlasterCommand

But yeah latency actually was much lower in safe mode.





Is it normal that it doesnt show all the information ?


----------



## Taraquin (Jun 24, 2022)

Ohnoitzbryan said:


> I dont have much running in the background.
> 
> Argus Monitor for Fan Control
> DisplayCal
> ...


Check msconfig for what processes that boots. For instance, epic games, antivirus, steam etc can eat some resources. For me I get avg 51ns in safemode and avg 51.7ns i win.


----------



## Ohnoitzbryan (Jun 24, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Check msconfig for what processes that boots. For instance, epic games, antivirus, steam etc can eat some resources. For me I get avg 51ns in safemode and avg 51.7ns i win.



Lowest i could achieve was 55.0ns within WIN, all tasks killed and i actually found a few processes which were in autostart which are not even on the machine anymore. "java updater" for example or CCX by Adobe. 
Disabled those and restarted but the lowest i got was 55.0ns still.

Also found AMD services which i didnt know exist. Probably has to do with the GPU, in case you OC it will report the issue and revert back to default settings.

Maybe there is also a difference in Windows 10 versions? Currently using pro.


----------



## Taraquin (Jun 24, 2022)

Ohnoitzbryan said:


> Lowest i could achieve was 55.0ns within WIN, all tasks killed and i actually found a few processes which were in autostart which are not even on the machine anymore. "java updater" for example or CCX by Adobe.
> Disabled those and restarted but the lowest i got was 55.0ns still.
> 
> Also found AMD services which i didnt know exist. Probably has to do with the GPU, in case you OC it will report the issue and revert back to default settings.
> ...


55 is good  Safe mode will always be faster, I have disabled all I can.


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## Ohnoitzbryan (Jun 24, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> 55 is good  Safe mode will always be faster, I have disabled all I can.


Just wanted to say thank you again for helping me optimize my RAM kit !!

Hope it stays stable, will keep it like this for a while now and then either try to dial a bit back on the 1.46v or lower the RFC values.

Really appreciate your help and hope you have a amazing weekend ahead 

EDIT:
@Taraquin
Sorry for the ping but i ran into some issues yesterday in the evening.
Since OCCT only runs for max 1hr without subscription i gave Karhu Ram tester a try.

On my first run i got a error after 80minutes, i went into the BIOS and disabled my PBO/CO just to make sure its not the negativ curve offset.
I ran it a 2nd time and after around 2 hours i got another error.
Went to BIOS again and changed the ClkDrvStr to "40"
I ran a test over night and those are my results now.

Would you say its most likely stable now?
Can i keep the DrvStr like this or should i lower it if possible?


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## Taraquin (Jun 25, 2022)

May be more stable now, mlst important is if it's gamingstable


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## Ohnoitzbryan (Jun 27, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> May be more stable now, mlst important is if it's gamingstable



What is the worst that can happen if the RAM is unstable? 

I ran Karhu again and I keep getting 1 error after multiple hours. Maybe related to heat? 50+C

I dialed back on the Timings to 16-16-16-32, T1, GDM enabled. 

1ns slower and Copy bandwith suffered a bit, rest is still around 59k Bandwith. 
However it allows me to run it with 1.40v compared to 1.45v.

It was stable for hours and gaming but again karhu ran over night and spit out 1 error after around 3 hrs. 

Anything else I could do to improve stability? 
I might try to put a fan over the DIMMS.


----------



## Taraquin (Jun 27, 2022)

Ohnoitzbryan said:


> What is the worst that can happen if the RAM is unstable?
> 
> I ran Karhu again and I keep getting 1 error after multiple hours. Maybe related to heat? 50+C
> 
> ...


Typically BSODs during load. If RFC (and REFI on Intel) is too low there is risk of data corruption. I would keep the 1.45v setting that got one rare error, may be heat related, may be a timeout etc, but remember that rare errors in memtest probably means it 100% stable in games. On my previous setup I had a pair of Micron sticks. I ran them at 3733 at rc 55 for almost a year, 100% stable. Then I tried karhu and testmem 5, got loads of errors. Turns out I need rc 56, IRL it gad nothing to say.


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## Valantar (Jun 27, 2022)

Ohnoitzbryan said:


> What is the worst that can happen if the RAM is unstable?


Random hard system crashes/BSODs, not unlikely to include some data loss/corruption.


Ohnoitzbryan said:


> I ran Karhu again and I keep getting 1 error after multiple hours. Maybe related to heat? 50+C


If it's Samsung B-die, then yes, that's a heat problem. B-die doesn't like to exceed 50°C at all.


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## Ohnoitzbryan (Jun 27, 2022)

Valantar said:


> Random hard system crashes/BSODs, not unlikely to include some data loss/corruption.
> 
> If it's Samsung B-die, then yes, that's a heat problem. B-die doesn't like to exceed 50°C at all.



I assume its B-die, according to the label on the kit , 3200mhz c14 XMP. Also found it listed on bdie finder.

It really got over 50C towards the 60C mark when i ran Karhu last night. 
I think it has to do with the case and the overall airflow, mostly exhaust on my Radiators and only the bottom brings in some fresh air. This is probably not enough airflow for the DIMMs.
I mean idle and during gaming i reach mid 40C , its currently 25C room temperature and since the GPU is also liquid cooled it wont make the DiMMs any hotter during gaming sessions.

The only time i notice a decrease in RAM temps is when the GPU Radiator fans on top are running around 60% and they pull the heat away from the RAM. I wonder if a push pull config would improve this further as the fans would be closer to the RAM kit?

For now i installed a single Noctua Fan which blows directly towards the DIMMS and i see idle of around 32C and low 40C during Karhu. I might try karhu tonight again and let the Fan run to see if the Errors i get are heat related or not.

Not gonna lie, it looks super silly but it does its job!


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## Valantar (Jun 27, 2022)

Ohnoitzbryan said:


> I assume its B-die, according to the label on the kit , 3200mhz c14 XMP. Also found it listed on bdie finder.
> 
> It really got over 50C towards the 60C mark when i ran Karhu last night.
> I think it has to do with the case and the overall airflow, mostly exhaust on my Radiators and only the bottom brings in some fresh air. This is probably not enough airflow for the DIMMs.
> ...


I've got a similar setup with an NF-A12x15 directly above my RAM - though a bit cleaner behind the mesh sidepanel of my Meshlicious  Then again I'm also sitting at ~30°C ambients with summer hitting southern Sweden hard right now, with idle RAM temps in the low 40s (can't remember what my RAM voltage is set to, but I'm running B-die at 3800 15-15-15-30, so it needs cooling!). When I installed it I intended it to be temporary, but I've ended up just leaving it. It works, and I can't see it, so whatever


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## Ohnoitzbryan (Jun 27, 2022)

Yea it was actually the heat.
Below are my results after almost 3 hours and running that fan on only 50% speed.
Those are around -20C max under constant load.
This way ill def have some headroom for the voltage.

I went ahead afterwards and ordered a old version of the Corsair RAM cooler.
Was able to get a new one on Ebay for 15€ + 4 € shipping cause some shop closed down and they had like 3 in stock.

Just hope the CPU cooler display wont get in the way but then again im sure ill find a way to attach the thing.
Cant complain for under 20€ and still sealed.


----------



## Valantar (Jun 27, 2022)

Ohnoitzbryan said:


> Yea it was actually the heat.
> Below are my results after almost 3 hours and running that fan on only 50% speed.
> Those are around -20C max under constant load.
> This way ill def have some headroom for the voltage.
> ...


Oh, I hope you're prepared for the noise from that cooler. A Noctua fan swap might be in order for that thing, unless you get lucky and it somehow has tolerable quality fans.


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## eazen (Jun 28, 2022)

It’s funny the vote doesn’t even cover 3600 which is what I have, with my older 3700X 1800/3800 was possible now I’m down to 3600, didn’t bother to try 3733 or 3666, I don’t think it matters.


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## Taraquin (Jun 28, 2022)

eazen said:


> It’s funny the vote doesn’t even cover 3600 which is what I have, with my older 3700X 1800/3800 was possible now I’m down to 3600, didn’t bother to try 3733 or 3666, I don’t think it matters.


I have tuned a lot of Ryzen 5k and so far the worst I found did 3666, since you didn't bother testing 3666 or 3733 who knows if they work  3666 will give you about 1-2% more perf, 3733 1-2% on top of that if you are CPU bound. Not a lot, but some.


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## freeagent (Jun 28, 2022)

eazen said:


> t’s funny the vote doesn’t even cover 3600 which is what I have, with my older 3700X 1800/3800 was possible now I’m down to 3600, didn’t bother to try 3733 or 3666, I don’t think it matters.


If it helps I was able to nail down 1900 with 4 sticks on my 3600XT. Not a hair more though.. completely unwilling to play.


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## eazen (Jun 28, 2022)

freeagent said:


> If it helps I was able to nail down 1900 with 4 sticks on my 3600XT. Not a hair more though.. completely unwilling to play.


That’s a pretty good IMC. 4 ram sticks is usually detrimental, I mean it’s really the same quality as the IMC of the 3700X I had before, it was two double ranked 16 GB sticks, so probably comparable, but I didn’t try more than 1900/3800.



freeagent said:


> If it helps I was able to nail down 1900 with 4 sticks on my 3600XT. Not a hair more though.. completely unwilling to play.


I have a 5800X3D now, so I don’t think it matters anymore.


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## freeagent (Jun 28, 2022)

eazen said:


> That’s a pretty good IMC. 4 ram sticks is usually detrimental, I mean it’s really the same quality as the IMC of the 3700X I had before, it was two double ranked 16 GB sticks, so probably comparable, but I didn’t try more than 1900/3800.
> 
> 
> I have a 5800X3D now, so I don’t think it matters anymore.


I sold my XT shortly after I bought my 5900X.. between my 5600X and the 5900X that XT was totally out classed.


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## eazen (Jun 28, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I sold my XT shortly after I bought my 5900X.. between my 5600X and the 5900X that XT was totally out classed.


So what’s your IF clock now? Must be over 4000 then or at least 4000. I’m not that lucky but to be fair my Ram maxes out at 3800 anyway.


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## freeagent (Jun 29, 2022)

eazen said:


> So what’s your IF clock now? Must be over 4000 then or at least 4000. I’m not that lucky but to be fair my Ram maxes out at 3800 anyway.


My 5600X does 2K stable with 2 single rank sticks, and it can bench at 2100. My 5900X does 1900 stable with 4 sticks, and anything more than that and it is a whea generator.


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## eazen (Jun 29, 2022)

freeagent said:


> My 5600X does 2K stable with 2 single rank sticks, and it can bench at 2100. My 5900X does 1900 stable with 4 sticks, and anything more than that and it is a whea generator.


Both pretty good, comparable to my ex 3700X. It’s ridiculous how big the difference is between regular Ryzen and Ryzen APU imcs though, they can do much more.


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## Taraquin (Jun 29, 2022)

eazen said:


> That’s a pretty good IMC. 4 ram sticks is usually detrimental, I mean it’s really the same quality as the IMC of the 3700X I had before, it was two double ranked 16 GB sticks, so probably comparable, but I didn’t try more than 1900/3800.
> 
> 
> I have a 5800X3D now, so I don’t think it matters anymore.


5800X3D is less dependent on ram oc/tuning than regular Zen 3 since the large L3 cache makes latency/BW less important, but running tuned 3733 vs 3600 xmp will net you over 10% performance in some games, and 1% lows will be affected the most. 
Example Cyberpunk:






9% avg and 12% on lows. 5800X gains 16% on both so large L3 cache compensates for slower ram.


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## QuietBob (Jun 29, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> 5800X3D is less dependent on ram oc/tuning than regular Zen 3 since the large L3 cache makes latency/BW less important, but running tuned 3733 vs 3600 xmp will net you over 10% performance in some games, and 1% lows will be affected the most.
> Example Cyberpunk:
> View attachment 252887
> View attachment 252889
> 9% avg and 12% on lows. 5800X gains 16% on both so large L3 cache compensates for slower ram.


Great info, didn't expect CP2077 to be so bandwidth hungry (DDR5 results). Do you have a link to that video?


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## Taraquin (Jun 29, 2022)

QuietBob said:


> Great info, didn't expect CP2077 to be so bandwidth hungry (DDR5 results). Do you have a link to that video?











All in Russian unfortunately, but numbers speak for themselves. They tune quite good, but leave some potential on the table (they use gear down mode on AMD, 1-2% slower vs 1t, but easier to get stable, on Intel there is some core OC potential left out).

A few games lowes BW, Cyberpunk and Troy perform much better with DDR5 vs DDR4 due to this. Troy loves cores aswell.


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## eazen (Jun 29, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> 5800X3D is less dependent on ram oc/tuning than regular Zen 3 since the large L3 cache makes latency/BW less important, but running tuned 3733 vs 3600 xmp will net you over 10% performance in some games, and 1% lows will be affected the most.
> Example Cyberpunk:
> View attachment 252887
> View attachment 252889
> 9% avg and 12% on lows. 5800X gains 16% on both so large L3 cache compensates for slower ram.


DLSS ultra performance? No it won’t even yield me 1% I’m 99% GPU bound, the last game where this cpu helped me is CP2077 even my old Zen 2 was easily enough here. I also don’t think it will yield me 10% anywhere else to be honest. Zen 2 is far more reliant on ram bandwidth than Zen 3, on top Zen3D is even less than Zen 3.



QuietBob said:


> Great info, didn't expect CP2077 to be so bandwidth hungry (DDR5 results). Do you have a link to that video?


Unless you use low graphics settings which isn’t the point in CP2077, you won’t see any benefits. This game is easily handled by a Zen 2 if you use high graphics settings.


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## Taraquin (Jun 29, 2022)

eazen said:


> DLSS ultra performance? No it won’t even yield me 1% I’m 99% GPU bound, the last game where this cpu helped me is CP2077 even my old Zen 2 was easily enough here. I also don’t think it will yield me 10% anywhere else to be honest. Zen 2 is far more reliant on ram bandwidth than Zen 3, on top Zen3D is even less than Zen 3.
> 
> 
> Unless you use low graphics settings which isn’t the point in CP2077, you won’t see any benefits. This game is easily handled by a Zen 2 if you use high graphics settings.


My 3600 begs to differ. With my 3060ti my 5600X gets almost 50% more fps in 1080p high, both with tuned ram. If you play at 1080p ram tuning will matter on a 3060ti+ GPU, at 1440p not so much.


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## eazen (Jun 29, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> My 3600 begs to differ. With my 3060ti my 5600X gets almost 50% more fps in 1080p high, both with tuned ram. If you play at 1080p ram tuning will matter on a 3060ti+ GPU, at 1440p not so much.


Well I’m on 1440p Ultra with RT max, so that’s why things differ here. I could use your 3600 it would be enough with my setup as was my 3700X, no big difference between these CPUs. However, maybe I’ll fiddle around a bit more with ram speed, i just hate it when it bootloops again and I need to reset the bios because of that.


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## Taraquin (Jun 29, 2022)

eazen said:


> Well I’m on 1440p Ultra with RT max, so that’s why things differ here. I could use your 3600 it would be enough with my setup as was my 3700X, no big difference between these CPUs. However, maybe I’ll fiddle around a bit more with ram speed, i just hate it when it bootloops again and I need to reset the bios because of that.


Understand that, you could aim for a safe oc/tuning, no need to aim for perfection with your setup at 1440p/ultra  

Usually small adjustments to RAS, RC, RRD, FAW, RFC gives you the biggest boost, RDWR/WRRD, WR/RTP, SCL's and WTR can boost a bit more. 

Typically auto vs safe tuning if you have Samsung B-die 16-16-16 1.45v:
RAS 36 vs 32 
RC 64 vs 48
RRD 8/10 vs 6/8
FAW 38 vs 24
RFC 630 vs 300
WTR 5/14 vs 4/12
WR/RTP 24/12 vs 16/8
SCL's 5 vs 4
RDWR/WRRD 18/10 vs 10/3

Should be easy and stable on 99% of all B-die


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## eazen (Jun 29, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Understand that, you could aim for a safe oc/tuning, no need to aim for perfection with your setup at 1440p/ultra
> 
> Usually small adjustments to RAS, RC, RRD, FAW, RFC gives you the biggest boost, RDWR/WRRD, WR/RTP, SCL's and WTR can boost a bit more.
> 
> ...


Yea that’s the problem I have Hynix whatever RAM, it’s a TridentZ RGB 3600 CL16 kit. I tried ram tuning at one time with the help of Ryzen tuner by 1usmus, but the settings recommended were barely better than the standard ones and then I opted to use 3800 instead of these slightly sharper timings.


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## Taraquin (Jun 29, 2022)

eazen said:


> Yea that’s the problem I have Hynix whatever RAM, it’s a TridentZ RGB 3600 CL16 kit. I tried ram tuning at one time with the help of Ryzen tuner by 1usmus, but the settings recommended were barely better than the standard ones and then I opted to use 3800 instead of these slightly sharper timings.


CJR or DJR? CJR can be a bit tricky, DJR is easier.


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## Bockoama (Nov 7, 2022)

Hello techpowerup community,

i randomly found this post while looking for additonal information on overclocking RAM.

I have experience with overclocking CPU and GPU but not much with overclocking RAM.

I have used a guide which i found on Github to get started.
Maybe someone here can help me to tighten the timings of my RAM Kit.
I use Ryzen 9 5900x and 3200mhz RAM kit 4 x 8GB modules.
According to my research this RAM Kit should be B-Die.

With the guide on Github i so far went up to 3800mhz 1900 IF 1.45v.

Timings are pretty loose right now. I dont know if should up the frequency more until i crash or start to tighten timings?


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## DuxCro (Nov 7, 2022)

Bockoama said:


> Hello techpowerup community,
> 
> i randomly found this post while looking for additonal information on overclocking RAM.
> 
> ...


Well try to get 4000MHz with 2000IF to see if your system can run stable with that. If it can, then you can try tightening timings. If not, then just go with tighter timings. while leaveing the frequency at 3800/1900


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## Bockoama (Nov 7, 2022)

DuxCro said:


> Well try to get 4000MHz with 2000IF to see if your system can run stable with that. If it can, then you can try tightening timings. If not, then just go with tighter timings. while leaveing the frequency at 3800/1900


Thank you for your response. I tried with 4000mhz but my machine kept turning on and off and reset to last setting. I tried with 3933mhz and this seems to boot and Aida64 score is better than before.  I ran TM5 for 10 minutes now without error, not sure if stable for long.  Is TM5 still good for testing purposes ?


----------



## 3x0 (Nov 7, 2022)

Yes, 1usmus or Anta777 Extreme configs for TM5 are good at detecting memory errors. Just keep an eye on WHEA 19 errors in event viewer for Infinity Fabric errors TM5 will not show.


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## Bockoama (Nov 7, 2022)

3x0 said:


> Yes, 1usmus or Anta777 Extreme configs for TM5 are good at detecting memory errors. Just keep an eye on WHEA 19 errors in event viewer for Infinity Fabric errors TM5 will not show.


Thank you, i use Anta777 Extreme config for TM5. 
Ill keep an eye, i setup custom filter for WHEA logger.

This is what i got so far, i tightend primary timings a bit.


----------



## 3x0 (Nov 7, 2022)

Some suggestions in attachment. What's the voltage you're running for VDIMM? You could also try flat 16-16-16-16 timings. Increase tRC if unstable at current voltage.


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## Bockoama (Nov 7, 2022)

3x0 said:


> Some suggestions in attachment. What's the voltage you're running for VDIMM? You could also try flat 16-16-16-16 timings. Increase tRC if unstable at current voltage.


Thank you for the suggestion. Im got errors in TM5 however.  Latency improved a from 64ns to 56ns.  Maybe i should drop the frequency down to 3900mhz ? Ram Voltage is at 1.45v.

EDIT: i have to retry, i noticed in ZenTimings that GDM was not disabled and it was still set to 1T ?


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## 3x0 (Nov 7, 2022)

Do you have temperature sensors on the sticks in HWInfo? Generally it's safe to increase voltage on Samsung B-die to 1.5v, but depending on the temperatures and certain timings you might not achieve stability.
First I'd try increasing VDIMM to 1.5v and just change tRC to 56 for ex. just to loosen it a bit for starters to see if the frequency is the problem or some timings.

Edit: ah, I see you tried my suggested timings already. You can manually set 2T command rate in BIOS and GDM should automatically get disabled, but I think it depends on the BIOS. GDM disabled and 1t Command rate is very difficult to achieve.


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## Bockoama (Nov 7, 2022)

3x0 said:


> Do you have temperature sensors on the sticks in HWInfo? Generally it's safe to increase voltage on Samsung B-die to 1.5v, but depending on the temperatures and certain timings you might not achieve stability.
> First I'd try increasing VDIMM to 1.5v and just change tRC to 56 for ex. just to loosen it a bit for starters to see if the frequency is the problem or some timings.
> 
> Edit: ah, I see you tried my suggested timings already. You can manually set 2T command rate in BIOS and GDM should automatically get disabled, but I think it depends on the BIOS. GDM disabled and 1t Command rate is very difficult to achieve.


I kept the frequency, changed trC to 56 and set voltage to 1.5v.  The sticks usually idle around 35C and reach around 45C during 20 Minutes of TM5. I use active RAM cooler, set to around 50% Fan performance right now.

Yeah there was a issue with my BIOS, i can turn off GDM and set command rate below the timings but it doesnt do anything, i have to enter the AMD Overclocking and change it there.

Those are my results so far, i ran TM5 for around 15-20 Minutes. Temperature was around 44-45C.


----------



## 3x0 (Nov 7, 2022)

Now you can incrementally lower the main timings, for ex 16-19-19-19. Keep in mind that the formula is tRP+tRAS=tRC lets say 14+28=42. If you set tRAS to 38 and tRC to 42, the memory controller will "autocorrect" for the higher value, in this case tRC 42 becomes tRC 52 (14+38). Same goes if tRAS is 21 and tRC 42 => tRAS will become 28 to accommodate the tRC 42.
Also, tRCDRD + tRTP defines the lowest value for tRAS, in your case 20+8=28 is min for tRAS. But if you don't follow the above formula tRAS will get "autocorrected"

As a general rule, tRTP should be half of tWR, but plenty of people don't follow that rule without issues.


----------



## Bockoama (Nov 7, 2022)

3x0 said:


> Now you can incrementally lower the main timings, for ex 16-19-19-19. Keep in mind that the formula is tRP+tRAS=tRC lets say 14+28=42. If you set tRAS to 38 and tRC to 42, the memory controller will "autocorrect" for the higher value, in this case tRC 42 becomes tRC 52 (14+38). Same goes if tRAS is 21 and tRC 42 => tRAS will become 28 to accommodate the tRC 42.
> Also, tRCDRD + tRTP defines the lowest value for tRAS, in your case 20+8=28 is min for tRAS. But if you don't follow the above formula tRAS will get "autocorrected"
> 
> As a general rule, tRTP should be half of tWR, but plenty of people don't follow that rule without issues.


Thank you , i adjusted some of the timings and updated the screenshot for ZenT. above.

Imma let TM5 run for a while now i guess. I assume it would be possible to run even higher frequency or tighter timings with 2x 8GB instead of using all 4, right ?


----------



## 3x0 (Nov 7, 2022)

Bockoama said:


> I assume it would be possible to run even higher frequency or tighter timings with 2x 8GB instead of using all 4, right ?


Generally yes, however Dual Rank configurations have some advantages. There were some claims that Dual Ranks at 200MHz lower frequency have the same performance as Single Rank with 200MHz higher, timings being equal of course.


----------



## Bockoama (Nov 7, 2022)

It was stable for 1 hour so far.
I will let TM5 run over night. What should i do next? Keep it like this for now? 

Thanks for all your help so far !


----------



## 3x0 (Nov 7, 2022)

No problem. There are a few slight adjustments you could try, but performance improvement will be very small:
tRDRDDD 4
tWRWRDD 6

Also check if Zentimings has tPHYRDL value same for all the sticks (you can switch from the dropdown menu below, where the RAM name is located)


----------



## Bockoama (Nov 7, 2022)

3x0 said:


> No problem. There are a few slight adjustments you could try, but performance improvement will be very small:
> tRDRDDD 4
> tWRWRDD 6
> 
> Also check if Zentimings has tPHYRDL value same for all the sticks (you can switch from the dropdown menu below, where the RAM name is located)



I just checked and the tPHYRDL value is the same across all 4 sticks.
I will adjust those two timings tomorrow after a overnight TM5 run 

Eventually ill try to lower the Dram voltage down the line, tho 1.5v should be safe for daily usage on B-die.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 8, 2022)

Bockoama said:


> Hello techpowerup community,
> 
> i randomly found this post while looking for additonal information on overclocking RAM.
> 
> ...


You'll need to use something like Thaiphoon burner and verify what RAM you have, research and guesswork is never fully reliable when manufacturers change the parts around and are sneaky about it


----------



## Bockoama (Nov 8, 2022)

Mussels said:


> You'll need to use something like Thaiphoon burner and verify what RAM you have, research and guesswork is never fully reliable when manufacturers change the parts around and are sneaky about it


I did my fair research before I even thought about the OC of my RAM kit. 
According to multiple Posts around the Web TB is very inaccurate these days. 

I bought my RAM Kit last year for around 220 €. I doubt it's anything but B-die and I was able to find it in the B-Die confirmed database. However corsair doesn't make it easy for one.


----------



## Ferrum Master (Nov 8, 2022)

if he is stable at tRFC 280 it simply cannot be anything else than B-Die.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 8, 2022)

Ferrum Master said:


> if he is stable at tRFC 280 it simply cannot be anything else than B-Die.


Nanya has a kit that can run really low RFC (close to B-die), but except for that no kits except B-die can run beliw 400 RFC at 3800.


----------



## Ferrum Master (Nov 8, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Nanya has a kit that can run really low RFC (close to B-die), but except for that no kits except B-die can run beliw 400 RFC at 3800.


Mine does the lowest possible 244@3800, I just cannot set it lower in MB bios lol


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 9, 2022)

Ferrum Master said:


> Mine does the lowest possible 244@3800, I just cannot set it lower in MB bios lol
> 
> View attachment 269062


That is quite tight! What voltage for ram? Is RCDRD 15 not possible?



3x0 said:


> Now you can incrementally lower the main timings, for ex 16-19-19-19. Keep in mind that the formula is tRP+tRAS=tRC lets say 14+28=42. If you set tRAS to 38 and tRC to 42, the memory controller will "autocorrect" for the higher value, in this case tRC 42 becomes tRC 52 (14+38). Same goes if tRAS is 21 and tRC 42 => tRAS will become 28 to accommodate the tRC 42.
> Also, tRCDRD + tRTP defines the lowest value for tRAS, in your case 20+8=28 is min for tRAS. But if you don't follow the above formula tRAS will get "autocorrected"
> 
> As a general rule, tRTP should be half of tWR, but plenty of people don't follow that rule without issues.


You seem to know quite a bit  Do you have any idea on how to run ran with Rtt_park disabled? This setting increases heat and is one of the issues for tight B-die running 1.5v+. 7 is the least heat-building and runs fine, but disabled won't work on my 2xSR setup.


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## Ferrum Master (Nov 9, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> That is quite tight! What voltage for ram? Is RCDRD 15 not possible?
> 
> 
> You seem to know quite a bit  Do you have any idea on how to run ran with Rtt_park disabled? This setting increases heat and is one of the issues for tight B-die running 1.5v+. 7 is the least heat-building and runs fine, but disabled won't work on my 2xSR setup.



Considering I am using Gear Down, just average. Consindering the rounding, you can use only even numbers with that. My board refuses anything higher than 3600 without GDM. I am feeding 1.55V to RAM.


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## 3x0 (Nov 9, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> You seem to know quite a bit  Do you have any idea on how to run ran with Rtt_park disabled? This setting increases heat and is one of the issues for tight B-die running 1.5v+. 7 is the least heat-building and runs fine, but disabled won't work on my 2xSR setup.


I'm still inexperienced when it comes to RAM OC, the info/knowledge I gathered was from reading OCN threads and Buildzoid  
RTT's are still voodoo magic to me, sorry I can't help you.


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## The King (Nov 19, 2022)

Passed TM5 with 5 cycles but over 40 mins stable so its not unstable.


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## Merritt1232005 (Nov 28, 2022)

Morning community,

I just updated my setup with a new memory kit and was working to adjust everything on my rig and happen to come across this post. I thought I might see if I can get some assistance/guidance on a good configuration for everyday use. I put everything back to default in bios and have only enabled XMP profiles. 
*Current PC Specs*:
CPU: Ryzen 5600x
CPU Cooler: Artic Freezer II 240 AIO
HDD: 
OS:Samsung 980 PRO 1TB Win 10 64
Spare HDD:970 EVO 500GB
Spare HDD: 3 SATA Mec drives
Memory: 4x8=32 GSKILL Trident Z RGB 4000mhz cl15 Kit=F4-4000C15Q-32GTZR
MB: MSI MAG x570 Tomahawk Wifi
GPU: Sapphire Nitro+ 5700xt
850w PSU
*Bios Settings*: All default setting except below.
XMP on set to Profile 1 DDR4 4000mhz 15-16-16-36
FCLK: 2000mhz

Everything boots and runs normally but getting WHEA errors after OCCT mem testing. Looking to adjust setting to see if I can get it stable. Kinda new in the OC arena. I read the setting in previous comments but nit sure I have them with my setup. 
Thanks!


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## freeagent (Nov 28, 2022)

Probably not going to happen with 4x8, maybe take out a pair and try again


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## FilipM (Nov 28, 2022)

Freshly tested yesterday, swapped the sticks around (A0-A2-A0-A2 -> A2-A0-A2-A0) 

4x8


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## Merritt1232005 (Nov 28, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Probably not going to happen with 4x8, maybe take out a pair and try again


Not excited about that but it's worth a try to see.


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## P4-630 (Nov 28, 2022)

> *September 2021 edition*



It's almost *2023*....
Just sayin..


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## Merritt1232005 (Nov 28, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> It's almost *2023*....
> Just sayin..


Oh wow, it is!


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## The King (Nov 29, 2022)

Merritt1232005 said:


> Morning community,
> 
> I just updated my setup with a new memory kit and was working to adjust everything on my rig and happen to come across this post. I thought I might see if I can get some assistance/guidance on a good configuration for everyday use. I put everything back to default in bios and have only enabled XMP profiles.
> *Current PC Specs*:
> ...


That is some really good bin Samsung B-die.

If its boots which it does you are more than halfway there to get it WHEA free.

Two voltages that need to be adjusted is VSOC and IOD. 
FOR VSOC you maybe need between 1.2V upto 1.25V
IOD between 1.1V-1.15V

I would not run higher than those values on a daily setup. On one of my boards I need at least 1.21V VSOC and 1.15V IOD to be WHEA free at 3933 CL15.


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## Taraquin (Nov 29, 2022)

Merritt1232005 said:


> Morning community,
> 
> I just updated my setup with a new memory kit and was working to adjust everything on my rig and happen to come across this post. I thought I might see if I can get some assistance/guidance on a good configuration for everyday use. I put everything back to default in bios and have only enabled XMP profiles.
> *Current PC Specs*:
> ...


Many WHEA19 or a few? If you get like 1 a minute minor voltage adjustment can fix it, if you get 10+ you should lower fclk. 3800/1900 is WHEA19 free for most.


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## Merritt1232005 (Nov 29, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Many WHEA19 or a few? If you get like 1 a minute minor voltage adjustment can fix it, if you get 10+ you should lower fclk. 3800/1900 is WHEA19 free for most.


Not sure because as soon as I seen the first error within 8 seconds of the testing I stopped it and turned it off. I can retest again to check it.



The King said:


> That is some really good bin Samsung B-die.
> 
> If its boots which it does you are more than halfway there to get it WHEA free.
> 
> ...


I'll try the voltage change to see if that clears it up.



Merritt1232005 said:


> Not sure because as soon as I seen the first error within 8 seconds of the testing I stopped it and turned it off. I can retest again to check it.
> 
> 
> I'll try the voltage change to see if that clears it up.


Ok I just changed the voltage on both and seems be be running without WHEA errors for 55 mins now using OCCT memory tester on AVX2.
*Current voltage settings in bios: Everything else is default.*
SOC Volts: 1.25
IOD  Volts: 1.175
Promising but I'll keep the test running and if it stays stable I should be good with that except I'm going to try and lower the IOD volts closer to 1.150 Volts. I was still getting WHEA erros @ 1.150 Volts so I raised it a bit and seems to have done the trick. 

So at this rate if everything checks out then that means I'm running everything 1-1 ratio with IF @ 2000mhz with all 4 ram slots loaded. Seems harder for most to hit this target with the 5600x. Would this because the memory kit or maybe Silicon lottery?


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## The King (Nov 29, 2022)

Merritt1232005 said:


> Not sure because as soon as I seen the first error within 8 seconds of the testing I stopped it and turned it off. I can retest again to check it.
> 
> 
> I'll try the voltage change to see if that clears it up.
> ...


Consider also running 3933 FCLK 1966. That should require less IOD than 1.175V which is on the high side.


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## Merritt1232005 (Nov 30, 2022)

The King said:


> Consider also running 3933 FCLK 1966. That should require less IOD than 1.175V which is on the high side.


I was able to modify the FCLK to 1967Mhz and 3933 for Ram and dialed back on the IOD voltage to 1.150 volts and everything is stable without WHEA errors. 

Appreciate the guidance!


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## kapone32 (Nov 30, 2022)

Updated to 3600 14-15-15-36


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## izy (Nov 30, 2022)

Merritt1232005 said:


> Not sure because as soon as I seen the first error within 8 seconds of the testing I stopped it and turned it off. I can retest again to check it.
> 
> 
> I'll try the voltage change to see if that clears it up.
> ...


My 1933MHZ OC was stable without WHEA in OCCT AVX2 and some other stress tests but when i tested with OCCT SSE i was getting many WHEAs so maybe you should check SSE instead.


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## freeagent (Nov 30, 2022)

IOD @ 1.15v


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## 3x0 (Nov 30, 2022)

SOC 1.25v is a bit concerning too


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## Merritt1232005 (Nov 30, 2022)

izy said:


> My 1933MHZ OC was stable without WHEA in OCCT AVX2 and some other stress tests but when i tested with OCCT SSE i was getting many WHEAs so maybe you should check SSE instead.


Just passed 10min mark on the SSE testing and no errors so I'll let that run for a bit. Fingers crossed.


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## izy (Nov 30, 2022)

Merritt1232005 said:


> Just passed 10min mark on the SSE testing and no errors so I'll let that run for a bit. Fingers crossed.


Sounds good , mine had wheas in sse after like 5 min but no whaes in avx2, i cant get it stable whatever voltages im throwing at it on 1900+.
Edit: i mean its stable and works just fine but cant get rid of wheas.


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## Merritt1232005 (Nov 30, 2022)

izy said:


> Sounds good , mine had wheas in sse after like 5 min but no whaes in avx2, i cant get it stable whatever voltages im throwing at it on 1900+.
> Edit: i mean its stable and works just fine but cant get rid of wheas.


What is your setup? Specifically what motherboard, cpu and memory specs are you running?


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## izy (Nov 30, 2022)

This is what i have stable ( i tried with the RAM from my other computer and no luck)






Merritt1232005 said:


> What is your setup? Specifically what motherboard, cpu and memory specs are you running?


Edit: Im running 4 sticks 32GB in general but when testing some OC i only keep 2 sticks.


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## Merritt1232005 (Nov 30, 2022)

izy said:


> This is what i have stable ( i tried with the RAM from my other computer and no luck)
> View attachment 272249
> 
> 
> Edit: Im running 4 sticks 32GB in general but when testing some OC i only keep 2 sticks.


What's the specs on the memory?


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## izy (Nov 30, 2022)

Merritt1232005 said:


> What's the specs on the memory?


Here you go: https://files.fm/thumb_show.php?i=xmrsq92at
This RAM has 180*2* XMP ^_^






Ram is fine , found on Reddit .. someone did 4400MHZ


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## The King (Nov 30, 2022)

Merritt1232005 said:


> What's the specs on the memory?


His RAM is Mircon Rev. E and yours is Samsung B-die.

Micron Ram can generally do higher MCLK with less voltages.
Samsung B-die can do lower CL with tighter sub-timings.  Some good bins like yours may also do high MCLK.

Two completely different IC manufacturers that behave differently.
ProcODT and other settings are different between these two sticks so don't copy settings between the two.


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## Merritt1232005 (Nov 30, 2022)

izy said:


> Here you go: https://files.fm/thumb_show.php?i=xmrsq92at
> This RAM has 180*2* XMP ^_^
> 
> 
> ...


Do you know if the voltage you're MB is putting to the socket is accurate? I know it differs by manufacturer but if you set the SOC to 1.150 Volts in bios ect it could be reading it wrong with the sensors and actually be close to 1.500 or higher in some case's but again that just what I've been made aware of. You're milage may vary on that and the only way to know for sure is with a volt meter to the back of the MB socket/VRM area while it's running and under a load. If your not comfortable with doing that I would advise against it cause you could brick your system if you are not up to the task. Outside of tweaking the  settings one way or the other it will likely come down to how good the parts (CPU,Ram) are with your build. I'm by no means an expert but I'm aware that all the above factors in to you achieving your goals of higher clocks and how your system functions with the commands you give it.


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## Taraquin (Dec 1, 2022)

izy said:


> This is what i have stable ( i tried with the RAM from my other computer and no luck)
> View attachment 272249
> 
> 
> Edit: Im running 4 sticks 32GB in general but when testing some OC i only keep 2 sticks.


Nice tuning! If I were to change something I would try lowering voltages, timings are very good for rev E. I would try SOC 0.95-1.05, IOD 0.9-1.0, CCD and VDDP 0.8-0.9. Try highest suggested first, then lower. It will make IO-die consume way less and make cores boost better. Do you have curve optimizer active?


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## izy (Dec 1, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Nice tuning! If I were to change something I would try lowering voltages, timings are very good for rev E. I would try SOC 0.95-1.05, IOD 0.9-1.0, CCD and VDDP 0.8-0.9. Try highest suggested first, then lower. It will make IO-die consume way less and make cores boost better. Do you have curve optimizer active?


Everything is on auto other than the RAM voltage, my FCLK is stuck at 1867, works till 2000 or something but with WHEAs. Thanks 
Edit:
IOD 0.9 no problem (can i go even lower?), maybe i should give it a try for 1900 with lower IOD , only tried with higher IODs.
Do i need to check RAM too after lowering IOD?
CPU is boosting 4650 - 4675 in OCCT AVX2.

UPDATE: I could get VDDP , CCD and IOD at 0,9v , seems stable in OCCT extreme setting. I tried to get them at 0.85 but im getting WHEAs and i didnt try anything between , SOC doesnt want to get any lower , i left it on AUTO.


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## Taraquin (Dec 2, 2022)

izy said:


> Everything is on auto other than the RAM voltage, my FCLK is stuck at 1867, works till 2000 or something but with WHEAs. Thanks
> Edit:
> IOD 0.9 no problem (can i go even lower?), maybe i should give it a try for 1900 with lower IOD , only tried with higher IODs.
> Do i need to check RAM too after lowering IOD?
> ...


Run aida to see if performance is the same. Too low IOD usually doesn't affect stability, but it will reduce performance. Example on my setup:
4000 IOD aida ns:
1.04v 53.7ns
1.03v 54ns
1.02v 55-56ns
1.01v 57-59ns

100% stable, just slower.

Kerp 1867 is you get WHEA19 above  There is little benefit above 1900 since you must raise VDD18 which can't be done on all MBs. I used to run 4000 (I never get WHEA19), but it reqUIRES 1.88V VDD18, which increases CPU-temp by 5-10C vs 1.6v VDD18 I can run at 3800. Performance with 4000 is only about 2% better so not worth it.

Ypu could try lowering WR/RTP btw: keep WR twice of RTP.
14/7
12/6
10/5 
May work and give slight boost. RFC and RC may also go lower. RC maybe 52-54, RFC 520, 528 or 536. My previos rev E kit could do 522 at 3733.


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## izy (Dec 2, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Run aida to see if performance is the same. Too low IOD usually doesn't affect stability, but it will reduce performance. Example on my setup:
> 4000 IOD aida ns:
> 1.04v 53.7ns
> 1.03v 54ns
> ...


Ill check AIDA later , i tested CB single and im getting better results while the multi are the same. 
Yes ill stick to 1867 , my RAM couldnt do stable CL14 at 1900 anyway (have to do CL15 with some timings increased) and i prefer a stable system for when im working on this system, im only trying to push its limits for fun but ofc if i find something stable i wont throw away the extra performance


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## Taraquin (Dec 2, 2022)

izy said:


> Ill check AIDA later , i tested CB single and im getting better results while the multi are the same.
> Yes ill stick to 1867 , my RAM couldnt do stable CL14 at 1900 anyway (have to do CL15 with some timings increased) and i prefer a stable system for when im working on this system, im only trying to push its limits for fun but ofc if i find something stable i wont throw away the extra performance


RC and RFC are 'hard' timings. The value between no boot and 100% stable is very small. Example:
On my rev E
RC 54 no boot
RC 55 100% stable, no crashes, but many errors in TM5
RC 56 no errors

RFC 518 no boot
RFC 520 unstable
RFC 522 100% stable

RC and RFC are very important for performance, find lowest stable value for a nice boost. You probably have little gains left on RFC, but RC may do several numbers lower


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## B_Bang (Dec 3, 2022)

Gskill 3600 Sammy B die kit running at 4000 with 1.43v still with same timimgs as at 3600 xmp.
All other setting stock Power.
5800x3D, X570S Aorus Pro AX


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## The King (Dec 3, 2022)

B_Bang said:


> Gskill 3600 Sammy B die kit running at 4000 with 1.43v still with same timimgs as at 3600 xmp.
> All other setting stock Power.
> 5800x3D, X570S Aorus Pro AX


When you post Zentimings try not to cut of the bottom part off, that has the RAM model number.

Check for WHEA errors using HWINFO64. You can probably tighten up those timings alot for better performance.

Although 5800X3D does not need fast RAM to perform it can help in some games.
If you want to run that daily you should test with TM5 25 cycles to make sure its stable else you may get data corruption or random reboots.


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## izy (Dec 3, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Run aida to see if performance is the same. Too low IOD usually doesn't affect stability, but it will reduce performance. Example on my setup:
> 4000 IOD aida ns:
> 1.04v 53.7ns
> 1.03v 54ns
> ...


Yeah , my ns was 68 69 , i went back to auto on IOD  , ill play a bit with the voltages / timings later see if there are any gains there


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## B_Bang (Dec 3, 2022)

The King said:


> When you post Zentimings try not to cut of the bottom part off, that has the RAM model number.
> 
> Check for WHEA errors using HWINFO64. You can probably tighten up those timings alot for better performance.
> 
> ...


I've run AIDA64 stress test for over 90 minutes with no issues I'll look at the timings.

I've re-snipped the Zen timings with the RAM part included. 

Will Memtest / TM5

Appreciate the tips


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## 529th (Dec 3, 2022)

B_Bang said:


> I've run AIDA64 stress test for over 90 minutes with no issues I'll look at the timings.
> 
> I've re-snipped the Zen timings with the RAM part included.
> 
> ...



What production date is your CPU?  I have a 2208PGS

EDIT: and if that's WHEA error free at that IF speed you have a great chip on your hands


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## The King (Dec 3, 2022)

This was Memory clock validation for HWBOT Country Cup 2022.








						AMD Ryzen 7 5800X @ 4498.95 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

[w9ltcq] Validated Dump by DESKTOP-0PSJOQD (2022-12-03 10:48:03) - MB: MSI B450M MORTAR MAX (MS-7B89) - RAM: 16384 MB




					valid.x86.fr


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## B_Bang (Dec 3, 2022)

529th said:


> What production date is your CPU?  I have a 2208PGS
> 
> EDIT: and if that's WHEA error free at that IF speed you have a great chip on your hands


No errors from Memtest, MT5 or AIDA64.  What does WHEA stand for? Nevermind googled it basically BSOD. None of those either. Stable as hell.

How do I find production date. CPU Z doesn't show it.

PS Not cracking my cooler to look on CPU


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## izy (Dec 3, 2022)

B_Bang said:


> No errors from Memtest, MT5 or AIDA64.  What does WHEA stand for? Nevermind googled it basically BSOD. None of those either. Stable as hell.
> 
> How do I find production date. CPU Z doesn't show it.
> 
> PS Not cracking my cooler to look on CPU


Open HWINFO while you stress testing and you can see if you get WHEAs or not.


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## freeagent (Dec 3, 2022)

My max stable FCLK 2022 version:

5600X 2000MHz (2/25/21)
5800X3D 1933MHz (9/28/22)
5900X 1900MHz (5/24/21)

They can all go further, sometimes much further... but they wouldn't be stable.

I won't be buying anymore AM4 CPUs unless they make something pretty kick axe, but I doubt it.


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## 529th (Dec 3, 2022)

B_Bang said:


> No errors from Memtest, MT5 or AIDA64.  What does WHEA stand for? Nevermind googled it basically BSOD. None of those either. Stable as hell.
> 
> How do I find production date. CPU Z doesn't show it.
> 
> PS Not cracking my cooler to look on CPU



For WHEA errors you need to go into Event Viewer and look for them.  You can make a custom search filter for them, too.  It's the only for sure way.  With HWinfo it will only show errors if they occur while it's running.  In my case I could open up HWinfo and not see any errors for hours and hours.  Run OCCT for an hour not see an error.  So the only for sure way is to look in Event Viewer because they are always logged.

Search 'By source' 'Event sources:' and you can scroll down to WHEA-Logger.

I wouldn't be surprised if you have them.  If you do you'll see Event ID 18 which is usually a voltage issue, or Event ID 19 which is Bus/Interconnect Error, which is the most common.


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## B_Bang (Dec 4, 2022)

529th said:


> For WHEA errors you need to go into Event Viewer and look for them.  You can make a custom search filter for them, too.  It's the only for sure way.  With HWinfo it will only show errors if they occur while it's running.  In my case I could open up HWinfo and not see any errors for hours and hours.  Run OCCT for an hour not see an error.  So the only for sure way is to look in Event Viewer because they are always logged.
> 
> Search 'By source' 'Event sources:' and you can scroll down to WHEA-Logger.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if you have them.  If you do you'll see Event ID 18 which is usually a voltage issue, or Event ID 19 which is Bus/Interconnect Error, which is the most common.


Thankyou am getting a lot of Event ID 19 errors. But everything runs fine. Any suggestions? Do i start bumping voltages as I have only done that to the RAM at this stage.


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## izy (Dec 4, 2022)

B_Bang said:


> Thankyou am getting a lot of Event ID 19 errors. But everything runs fine. Any suggestions? Do i start bumping voltages as I have only done that to the RAM at this stage.


Mine does the same (everything works fine) and i couldnt get rid of WHEAs without going to 1867MHZ FCLK (i didnt try with unsafe high voltages) but on the good side i could OC my RAM better running CL14.


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## 529th (Dec 4, 2022)

B_Bang said:


> Thankyou am getting a lot of Event ID 19 errors. But everything runs fine. Any suggestions? Do i start bumping voltages as I have only done that to the RAM at this stage.



The only thing, in my experience, that fixed/helped, was to lower the IF speed.  I have borderline stability at 1900 with never getting any WHEA errors while gaming but it will throw maybe 1 WHEA 19 error while running OCCT.  I left it at 1900 for the longest time but was always having trouble with OCing my GPU.  Kept getting Wattman crashes, weird frame dropping issues, etc.  I've recently dropped down to 1866/3733MHz and so far the system seems a lot more stable!

I did try lowering VDDG IOD, and CCD and that's when I got a WHEA 18 error.  Too low of vSOC voltage will also do it too but usually my system wouldn't boot in the first place.  

I'd drop down to 1866 and start from there.  With my chip I can do vSOC 1.018 at 1866 & 1900.  The odd thing is if I get close to 1.08 I start getting weird audio issues.


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## B_Bang (Dec 7, 2022)

izy said:


> Mine does the same (everything works fine) and i couldnt get rid of WHEAs without going to 1867MHZ FCLK (i didnt try with unsafe high voltages) but on the good side i could OC my RAM better running CL14.


Setting all voltages to normal I've gotten to 1867/3733 with no errors. Will try faster if doesn't work I'll give the ram more juice and see if I can get to cas 14/14/14


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## freeagent (Dec 7, 2022)

Looks like core0 is a ripper


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## B_Bang (Dec 7, 2022)

Thanks for the tips everyone. looks like my best without WHEA's is 1900/3800 ram wouldn't stay below cas16 without issues even with voltage to 1.45.  So it's all running at Standard Voltages both with improved inf & ram clocks   Pretty happy with that as it's my first time OC'ing anything in years!


----------

