# AMD Retail Radeon RX 480 4GB to 8GB Memory Unlock Mod Works, We Benchmarked



## btarunr (Jul 5, 2016)

Earlier this week, we heard reports of some early adopters of the 4 GB variant of AMD Radeon RX 480 claiming that their cards shipped with 8 GB of memory physically present on their cards, but their graphics card BIOS somehow prevented the GPU from addressing more than 4 GB of it. In its Reddit AMA, the company presented a vague answer to the question of whether such 4 GB cards are moddable to 8 GB by flashing it with the BIOS of the 8 GB variant, by stating that the ability to mod is restricted to review samples. This is both true and false. Short answer: retail 4 GB RX 480 can be flashed to 8 GB, and the modified card perfoms on par with the 8 GB variant. 

AMD sent out review samples of the 8 GB variant, and to enable reviews to also put up reviews of the 4 GB variant, it sent a special BIOS that converts the 8 GB card to 4 GB, by reducing its address-space and memory clocks, perfectly simulating the 4 GB variant. AMD's claims of 4 GB cards with 8 GB physical memory being restricted to review samples was proven false when early adopters of retail 4 GB cards discovered eight Samsung 8 Gbit memory chips on their card amounting to 8 GB. We currently have an AIB partner-branded retail 4 GB Radeon RX 480 card which we bought online (invoice posted), and which we're using to prepare our 4 GB RX 480 review. We first discovered that our 4 GB retail card had the same exact Samsung 8x 8 Gb chips (including the same bin, specc'd for 8 Gbps) as the 8 GB card. We flashed this card with the 8 GB card's BIOS, and were successful in doing so. The trick here is to extract the BIOS of the 8 GB card with ATIFlash 2.74 and then transplanting that BIOS onto the 4 GB card. The 8 GB card BIOS image which we used, can be found here. Use at your own risk.



 

 

 




To confirm that this mod works, we first tested our 8 GB review sample with its untouched 8 GB BIOS, and used that as control. Next, we tested the retail 4 GB card with the BIOS it shipped with. Lastly, we flashed this 4 GB card using ATIFlash with the 8 GB BIOS, which we extracted from our 8 GB card using ATIFlash. We ran "Call of Duty: Black Ops III," on the three. This game can consume dedicated video memory beyond 4 GB at 4K Ultra HD (3840 x 2160). 

The 8 GB control and the modified 4 GB to 8 GB card performed on-par with each other. The 8 GB control card produced 24.6 fps, the 4 GB to 8 GB modified card produced 24.7 fps. The 4 GB card with its original retail BIOS produced 23.3 fps. To make sure that each GPU runs at a predictable GPU frequency (usually thermal and power limit reduces clocks), we've set both fan and power target to maximum, which results in a constant frequency of 1266 MHz on both cards.



 

Also, to prove that the game-test (COD: Black Ops III) was able to consume more than 4 GB of video memory on the modified card, as it does on our 8 GB control card, we observed the "Memory Usage (dedicated)" graph of GPU-Z. The modified card was indeed able to address >4 GB of video memory on the card, just as it does on the 8 GB card. 

In conclusion, flashing the reference 4 GB Radeon RX 480 to 8 GB works, if you're sure your card has 8 GB of memory physically present. Sadly the only way to know for sure is disassembling your card, which will definitely break some seals and void your warranty. You also need to be sure how to use ATIFlash correctly.

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## $ReaPeR$ (Jul 5, 2016)

nice!! this should start the lottery..

ps. the 4 extra gigs dont make much of a difference from what i can see..


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## proxuser (Jul 5, 2016)

lol time to flash titan x bios to 980 

card is still too weak to my taste. not really interested getting 4gb more vram because it's already low end card.


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## natr0n (Jul 5, 2016)

This is one scenario where you can literally "download more ram" via bios mod/update.


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## xvi (Jul 5, 2016)

TPU sure loves finding mods for AMD cards.
..and I sure love TPU for it. 

Is this your doing again, W1zard?


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## btarunr (Jul 5, 2016)

xvi said:


> TPU sure loves finding mods for AMD cards.
> ..and I sure love TPU for it.
> 
> Is this your doing again, W1zard?



Yes, all the heavy lifting was done by W1zzard. I made the writeup.


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## W1zzard (Jul 5, 2016)

xvi said:


> TPU sure loves finding mods for AMD cards.
> ..and I sure love TPU for it.
> 
> Is this your doing again, W1zard?


I can't claim credit for that, there have been reportings before of the fact that the 4 GB card comes with 8 GB VRAM.
As far as I know I'm the first to have tested it, and successfully.


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## G33k2Fr34k (Jul 5, 2016)

proxuser said:


> lol time to flash titan x bios to 980
> 
> card is still too weak to my taste. not really interested getting 4gb more vram because it's already low end card.



What do you mean by too weak? It's a pretty hefty card for $200.


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## the54thvoid (Jul 5, 2016)

Why even bother releasing a 4GB card if it's the same 8GB card? AMD scamming people again to buy 8GB cards.

AMD really ought to learn - but good luck to those that flash from 4 to 8Gb!


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## dj-electric (Jul 5, 2016)

the54thvoid said:


> Why even bother releasing a 4GB card if it's the same 8GB card? AMD scamming people again to buy 8GB cards.
> 
> AMD really ought to learn - but good luck to those that flash from 4 to 8Gb!



BIOS locking saves money early in production. you use the same line to make both versions.
Thats exactly why early HD 6950 were also able to unlock into HD 6970s


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## qubit (Jul 5, 2016)

This is a pretty nice hidden bonus for savvy technically minded buyers. Reminds me of the 9800 SE I bought in the heady days of 2003. This had 4 of the 8 pipelines enabled, but there was a softmod driver available for it to unlock the other 4, which worked perfectly. There was also a hardmod explained on TPU, which I did eventually. Thing went like a rocket with all 8 pipelines enabled. 

It wouldn't surprise me if AMD release a new BIOS to fix the excess power issue which also stops the mod from working. Then again they might not, because they really need to push up sales, so this trick could have been deliberately put in for enthusiasts to discover.


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## john_ (Jul 5, 2016)

So the AIBs think that no one will buy a 4GB card at $199 when there is an 8GB card at $239. I can't find any other reason for not producing enough cards with only 4GBs on them.


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## Tartaros (Jul 5, 2016)

qubit said:


> This is a pretty nice hidden bonus for savvy technically minded buyers. Reminds me of the 9800 SE I bought in the heady days of 2003. This had 4 of the 8 pipelines enabled, but there was a softmod driver available for it to unlock the other 4, which worked perfectly. There was also a hardmod explained on TPU, which I did eventually. Thing went like a rocket with all 8 pipelines.



Also the 9500 to 9700 mod. That was glorious.


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## ironwolf (Jul 5, 2016)

Any known list out there that confirms which make/model of 480 do indeed have the extra RAM on them?


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## dorsetknob (Jul 5, 2016)

news of this SHOULD BOOST SALES  which can only be good for AMD


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## FordGT90Concept (Jul 5, 2016)

This is probably only going to be true of reference cards which aren't going to be around very long.  The same trick likely won't work with non-reference cards (AIBs will not install the extra chips).


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## zAAm (Jul 5, 2016)

I'm guessing this is good news for owners with multiple cards in crossfire. Not sure if it would make a lot of difference for single card user resolutions. Speaking of which, are we going to see a full review of a 4GB sample of the RX480 soon?


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## Thunderclap (Jul 5, 2016)

Well at least it wasn't some BS that was actually gimping the card. Looking at you, GTX 970.


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## qubit (Jul 5, 2016)

Tartaros said:


> Also the 9500 to 9700 mod. That was glorious.


Oh yeah, I remember that.


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## RejZoR (Jul 5, 2016)

the54thvoid said:


> Why even bother releasing a 4GB card if it's the same 8GB card? AMD scamming people again to buy 8GB cards.
> 
> AMD really ought to learn - but good luck to those that flash from 4 to 8Gb!



This has to be the worst scamming scheme then. AMD sells you a cheaper 4GB card that you can flash to a 8GB card for free. Oooooook...


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## NaXter24R (Jul 5, 2016)

You don't need necessasy to remove the cooler. Just try with a program called memoryinfo. Those memory modules should be: Samsung K4G80325FB-HC25


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## -The_Mask- (Jul 5, 2016)

W1zzard said:


> I can't claim credit for that, there have been reportings before of the fact that the 4 GB card comes with 8 GB VRAM.
> As far as I know I'm the first to have tested it, and successfully.


Thx Wizzard and yes you're the first afaik.


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## GhostRyder (Jul 5, 2016)

This is too funny, its another one of those early hidden gems for the reference cards like in the good ole days.  I am sure this will only be for a short time of course.


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## geon2k2 (Jul 5, 2016)

RejZoR said:


> This has to be the worst scamming scheme then. AMD sells you a cheaper 4GB card that you can flash to a 8GB card for free. Oooooook...



Probably in the future they do intend to have 4GB worth of chips on the card, however for now in order to be able to sell for a lower price and not to affect the sales of the 8GB version, they did this bios trick.

I think its utterly stupid from their part ... they could just sell the 8GB variant and let people wait for the 4GB for the time when it will come. 

If they never intend to make a 4GB version then this is another story. 
If they wanted more money for the same card, they could have done the nvidia move and have a founders edition, which brings nothing extra but it is more expensive.


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## ensabrenoir (Jul 5, 2016)

..this is much needed good news for Amd.


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## NaXter24R (Jul 5, 2016)

AIB won't ship in 4gb i think.


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## Recon-UK (Jul 5, 2016)

I can only see this as a stunt to aid growth of sales, it's always a good trick AMD had up their sleeve through mistake previously, this cannot be by mistake as the full 8GB of Vram is on the 4GB versions.


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## NaXter24R (Jul 5, 2016)

geon2k2 said:


> Probably in the future they do intend to have 4GB worth of chips on the card, however for now in order to be able to sell for a lower price and not to affect the sales of the 8GB version, they did this bios trick.
> 
> I think its utterly stupid from their part ... they could just sell the 8GB variant and let people wait for the 4GB for the time when it will come.
> 
> ...


Nope, check Samsung's specs for 4gb model


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## xorbe (Jul 5, 2016)

I can't even fathom that they actually did this.  Now I have to eat my hat.

What about vram clock speed?  Wasn't the 4GB supposed to run slower?


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## Recon-UK (Jul 5, 2016)

xorbe said:


> I can't even fathom that they actually did this.  Now I have to eat my hat.
> 
> What about vram clock speed?  Wasn't the 4GB supposed to run slower?



Anyone tested how high the "4GB" overclocks on the memory?


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## dorsetknob (Jul 5, 2016)

Recon-UK said:


> Anyone tested how high the "4GB" overclocks on the memory?



Expectations to come with a review /test


W1zzard said:


> I can't claim credit for that, there have been reportings before of the fact that the 4 GB card comes with 8 GB VRAM.
> As far as I know I'm the first to have tested it, and successfully.



WE avidly WAIT


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## truth teller (Jul 5, 2016)

so the review sample bios works on retail cards? no need to edit the bios that is shipped with the card?
nice! thx for testing! god, its starting to feel like good old mod times


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## W1zzard (Jul 5, 2016)

Recon-UK said:


> Anyone tested how high the "4GB" overclocks on the memory?


To the adjustment limit of 2250 MHz, just like my 8 GB press card. It's the same memory chips rated for 2 GHz



truth teller said:


> so the review sample bios works on retail cards? no need to edit the bios that is shipped with the card?
> nice! thx for testing! god, its starting to feel like good old mod times


Yup, I didn't do any BIOS editing, just grab the BIOS off the news post. *MAKE SURE TO SAVE YOUR BIOS USING ATIFLASH BEFORE FLASHING*. Then flash with atiflash 2.74 from our downloads section.


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## suraswami (Jul 5, 2016)

AMD always has some surprise!!


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## nem.. (Jul 5, 2016)

Polaris Bios Editor:
Link: https://github.com/caa82437/PolarisBiosEditor
http://www.overclock.net/t/1604686/polaris-bios-editor


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## the54thvoid (Jul 5, 2016)

RejZoR said:


> This has to be the worst scamming scheme then. AMD sells you a cheaper 4GB card that you can flash to a 8GB card for free. Oooooook...



The scam is on those who pay extra for the 8Gb you silly billy.


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## cdawall (Jul 5, 2016)

the54thvoid said:


> The scam is on those who pay extra for the 8Gb you silly billy.


It's not really a scam... AMD is likely doing this for yield sizes same reason why the voltage is cranked so high


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## Ungari (Jul 5, 2016)

I can't believe anyone would complain about this.
What is wrong with these people?


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## Xzibit (Jul 5, 2016)




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## -The_Mask- (Jul 5, 2016)

the54thvoid said:


> The scam is on those who pay extra for the 8Gb you silly billy.


It's only possible for the first ones build by AMD with only a sticker from manufacturer like Power color or XFX for example.

AMD had only one product for certification and testing, which is cheaper then having two separate production lines. When the custom versions are coming you will see real 4GB cards.


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## xkm1948 (Jul 5, 2016)

This will only benefit the first wave buyers. As I am sure AMD will address this later the road for 4GB card. 

Anyway this does bring back lots of memories. I remember unlocking my 9500 to 9700 back in 2003, glorious days!



Ungari said:


> I can't believe anyone would complain about this.
> What is wrong with these people?



fanboys, need I say more? Just ignore some comments.


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## NaXter24R (Jul 5, 2016)

-The_Mask- said:


> It's only possible for the first ones build by AMD with only a sticker from manufacturer like Power color or XFX for example.
> 
> AMD had only one product for certification and testing, which is cheaper then having two separate production lines. When the custom versions are coming you will see real 4GB cards.


I don't think. Search the data sheet. 7ghz for the 4gb model is 1.55v instead of 1.5. So why spending more with a second production line and increasing the power consumption?


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## -The_Mask- (Jul 5, 2016)

NaXter24R said:


> I don't think.


I do


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## the54thvoid (Jul 5, 2016)

xkm1948 said:


> This will only benefit the first wave buyers. As I am sure AMD will address this later the road for 4GB card.
> 
> Anyway this does bring back lots of memories. I remember unlocking my 9500 to 9700 back in 2003, glorious days!
> 
> ...



I'm not a fan boy you idiot.

Though it's amusing that people cannot see logic as it stares them in their red little faces.  It's as simple as this.  I buy a 8gb card for 'x' amount but the same card is sold at '<x' with bits simply hidden.  People in the know can just enable the extra 4Gb and have the same card I paid extra for.  It's not a scam but it's fucking lazy of AMD. 

But I do love seeing how people see this as a positive (which it is if you are in the know) when people are being sold the 8Gb identical card for more money. 

But, in the interests of balance, it's not anywhere near as bad as Nvidia selling a Titan at the price they go for (when they release a faster version 2 months later as a xx80ti).  I can say bad things about both sides - I see a lot of people here unable to say anything bad about team red or green - that be a fanboy.

So is it fair that people have rushed out and bought an 8Gb card and paid more for it because it has 8Gb when the cheaper card is also an 8Gb card but AMD didn't tell anyone?  If you think that's fair - you're a douche.


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## cdawall (Jul 5, 2016)

the54thvoid said:


> I'm not a fan boy you idiot.
> 
> Though it's amusing that people cannot see logic as it stares them in their red little faces.  It's as simple as this.  I buy a 8gb card for 'x' amount but the same card is sold at '<x' with bits simply hidden.  People in the know can just enable the extra 4Gb and have the same card I paid extra for.  It's not a scam but it's fucking lazy of AMD.
> 
> ...



So what's your opinion on the 290/290x all the 290 is,  is a 290x with pipelines masked. They can sometimes be unlocked as well. Nvidia does the same but no unlocks since the 6600/6800


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## RejZoR (Jul 5, 2016)

I've had HD6950 that wasn't unlockable. Should I call AMD "scammer" because of that? Of course not. I just wasn't as lucky as some were. Same goes for R9500 that unlocked to R9700. It's just how it is.


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## Recon-UK (Jul 5, 2016)

Why is my 670 not unlocking into 1070? i have 1080P monitor, i times it by the refresh rate, i use backwards and sideways math, why does this not work?


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## Crap Daddy (Jul 5, 2016)

This is either a very clever marketing stunt in order to increase the 4G cards sale or a very stupid business decision to put physically 8G on a card which cannot be fully accessed and sell it for the price of a 4G card. Next we'll find out that somehow it's possible to access a Zen CPU forgotten on the PCB.


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## crow1001 (Jul 5, 2016)

W1zzard said:


> To the adjustment limit of 2250 MHz, just like my 8 GB press card. It's the same memory chips rated for 2 GHz
> 
> 
> Yup, I didn't do any BIOS editing, just grab the BIOS off the news post. *MAKE SURE TO SAVE YOUR BIOS USING ATIFLASH BEFORE FLASHING*. Then flash with atiflash 2.74 from our downloads section.




"SubsystemIDs mismatch"  any help with this thanks.


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## qubit (Jul 5, 2016)

Crap Daddy said:


> This is either a very clever marketing stunt in order to increase the 4G cards sale or a very stupid business decision to put physically 8G on a card which cannot be fully accessed and sell it for the price of a 4G card. *Next we'll find out that somehow it's possible to access a Zen CPU forgotten on the PCB.*


Found it!


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## rav (Jul 5, 2016)

$ReaPeR$ said:


> nice!! this should start the lottery..
> 
> ps. the 4 extra gigs dont make much of a difference from what i can see..



8gb video ram ONLY makes a difference if it is needed.  Running DX11 gaming benchmarks do not tax a system architecture where 8 gb will offer much of performance increase over 4gb.

However as DX12 and Vulkan begin to be better utilized by game studio programmers 8 gb and up will certainly will make a difference.

VRAM is among other things a page buffer.  4k video requires 199MILLION bits for every pixel per page.  So do the math.  Memory bandwidth per second in the RX 480 is 320 gb/second.

Consider the bucket analogy; 8gb of memory is just using a larger bucket to fill with the SAME volume of water that 4gb vram is capable of.

More Vram provides more "pipelines" to fill that bucket but if the bottleneck is the CPU then more VRAM will make no difference.

The Media benchmarking writers just do not want to provide accurate information to the consumer.  So while buying 8gb of RAM for $29 might get you a percentage point increase in performance over 4 gb, the consumer just needs to know the value of that additional performance.

So for any given percentage in performance increase what would be your willingness to part with your cash?

Would you spend $300 to gain a 2-10% increase in performance?

Would you spend $29 to gain a 5% increase in performance?  8gb VRAM certainly future proofs your GPU investment for a very small outlay in cash.


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## -The_Mask- (Jul 5, 2016)

Recon-UK said:


> Why is my 670 not unlocking into 1070? i have 1080P monitor, i times it by the refresh rate, i use backwards and sideways math, why does this not work?


It's not an AMD.


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## Casecutter (Jul 5, 2016)

the54thvoid said:


> Why even bother releasing a 4GB card if it's the same 8GB card? AMD scamming people again to buy 8GB cards.


Beats finding out your only addressing 3.5Gb at full speed, and there a difference in Bandwidth performance!



qubit said:


> Then again they might not, because they really need to push up sales, so this trick could have been deliberately put in for enthusiasts to discover.


Some AMD guy who sat on the computer waiting to get a $200 card just got the fringe benefit for believing... is a win in my book  I'd say even if you could find a 4Gb reference going forward I would not consider seeing it have all 8Gb.  Just a nice one time "perk" that seems to once in a while show up in a release for whatever reason.



FordGT90Concept said:


> This is probably only going to be true of reference cards which aren't going to be around very long.  The same trick likely won't work with non-reference cards (AIBs will not install the extra chips).


Exactly...



geon2k2 said:


> If they never intend to make a 4GB version then this is another story.


I think there will be some more AMD/RTG reference but 4Gb will have just 4Gb.

I don't see how it's scamming anyone.  They got what they bought and what was at least as advertised.  If I bought the 4/8Gb it's what I said add to cart, I suppose there would be some that are jaded but they at the very least got all 8Gb as advertised


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## chrishatred (Jul 5, 2016)

I did the bios flash on my XFX 4GB card and it worked! I tried the XFX 8GB dump from the TPU database first but the card didnt boot up (black screen - no signal). Switched to iGPU and did the flash with the linked file from the article.

Tested the capacity with starting 3 games the same time - fine!


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## the54thvoid (Jul 5, 2016)

Casecutter said:


> Beats finding out your only addressing 3.5Gb at full speed, and there a difference in Bandwidth performance!



Ask 970 owners - I never bought one.  

Well, FWIW, I'm sure all those that bought the 8Gb versions aren't too unhappy.  It is stupid of AMD though.  It's lazy, I don't think it's marketing and yeah, the AIB's wont do it on customs.

And to show I can laugh at stuff, I think I found the 970's 'missing' 0.5GB on the back of my 980ti. Pesky Nvidia.


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## AsRock (Jul 5, 2016)

zAAm said:


> I'm guessing this is good news for owners with multiple cards in crossfire. Not sure if it would make a lot of difference for single card user resolutions. Speaking of which, are we going to see a full review of a 4GB sample of the RX480 soon?



It's still a plus for AMD, and thinking about it there are 3 games i play that use 4G, in fact Shadow of Mordor with the HD pack recommends 6G although i ran it with 4G without issue.


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## Recon-UK (Jul 5, 2016)

AsRock said:


> It's still a plus for AMD, and thinking about it there are 3 games i play that use 4G, in fact Shadow of Mordor with the HD pack recommends 6G although i ran it with 4G without issue.


SOM ran fine on only 1.5GB Vram GTX 580 when it asked for 3GB...


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## Fluffmeister (Jul 5, 2016)

the54thvoid said:


> Ask 970 owners - I never bought one.
> 
> Well, FWIW, I'm sure all those that bought the 8Gb versions aren't too unhappy.  It is stupid of AMD though.  It's lazy, I don't think it's marketing and yeah, the AIB's wont do it on customs.
> 
> And to show I can laugh at stuff, I think I found the 970's 'missing' 0.5GB on the back of my 980ti. Pesky Nvidia.



I for one loved my 970, and looking at the TPU RX480 review it more than holds it's own. Maxwell on the 28nm process is fab, and only now people are appreciating how far ahead it was for it's time.

Anyway, lets hope most cards currently available flash to 8GB, AMD users need some love after all the hype.


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## AsRock (Jul 5, 2016)

Recon-UK said:


> SOM ran fine on only 1.5GB Vram GTX 580 when it asked for 3GB...



Running 3200x1800 ?, but i do believe like Elite Dangerous it don't really need it but it uses it if it's available.


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## Recon-UK (Jul 5, 2016)

AsRock said:


> Running 3200x1800 ?.


1080, completely maxed with textures on the 3GB recommended setting.
990mhz core clock, 4200mhz memory.
45-63FPS paired with Phenom II.


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## CounterSpell (Jul 5, 2016)

all this fuss for just 01 fps? 

what about the risks of bricking your card?


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## Recon-UK (Jul 5, 2016)

CounterSpell said:


> all this fuss for just 01 fps?
> 
> what about the risks of bricking your card?



Flashed my old GTX 480's 5 times.. never bricked..
Flashed my old 580... never bricked...
Flashed a 5850, guess what? never bricked.


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## truth teller (Jul 5, 2016)

nem.. said:


> https://github.com/caa82437/PolarisBiosEditor


thats great!


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## xvi (Jul 5, 2016)

oh ffs. It's not a scam, they're not stupid for leaving that 8GB on it. It's standard practice. *Everyone* does this. Lower AMD Phenom II CPUs were just high end CPUs with cores disabled. Intel i5s are just i7s with HT and other bits disabled. Mercury Tracers are just Ford Escorts with fancier plastic. It's cheaper (and more profitable) to just leave the components there instead of having to design and produce two separate versions.



Recon-UK said:


> Flashed my old GTX 480's 5 times.. never bricked..
> Flashed my old 580... never bricked...
> Flashed a 5850, guess what? never bricked.


Not everyone is good at flashing. 


CounterSpell said:


> all this fuss for just 01 fps?


Unlocking the extra memory isn't done for an increase in FPS.


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## xorbe (Jul 5, 2016)

I've done plenty of bios flashing on my Titans ... even messed them up a few times so that the nv driver wouldn't load (but the default vesa or whatever windows has worked).  You can in fact mess up the boost and power tables, and the nv driver just bails.


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## CounterSpell (Jul 6, 2016)

xvi said:


> oh ffs. It's not a scam, they're not stupid for leaving that 8GB on it. It's standard practice. *Everyone* does this. Lower AMD Phenom II CPUs were just high end CPUs with cores disabled. Intel i5s are just i7s with HT and other bits disabled. Mercury Tracers are just Ford Escorts with fancier plastic. It's cheaper (and more profitable) to just leave the components there instead of having to design and produce two separate versions.
> 
> 
> Not everyone is good at flashing.
> ...



soooo.... what would you like with the extra memory?


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## Norton (Jul 6, 2016)

xvi said:


> oh ffs. It's not a scam, they're not stupid for leaving that 8GB on it. It's standard practice. *Everyone* does this. Lower AMD Phenom II CPUs were just high end CPUs with cores disabled. Intel i5s are just i7s with HT and other bits disabled. Mercury Tracers are just Ford Escorts with fancier plastic. It's cheaper (and more profitable) to just leave the components there instead of having to design and produce two separate versions.



AMD did this with their Phenom II quads- there's a market demand for dual cores> AMD runs low on dual cores/gimped quads> AMD locks down 2 cores on perfectly good quad core chips and keeps selling chips- seems to be the same here... gpu's/cpu's/widgets are no different- give your customers what they ask for.

The only thing is there are some folks (like us) know that you may be able save a few bucks by rolling the dice a little bit


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## $ReaPeR$ (Jul 6, 2016)

rav said:


> 8gb video ram ONLY makes a difference if it is needed.  Running DX11 gaming benchmarks do not tax a system architecture where 8 gb will offer much of performance increase over 4gb.
> 
> However as DX12 and Vulkan begin to be better utilized by game studio programmers 8 gb and up will certainly will make a difference.
> 
> ...



if the core cannot use it its almost useless.. the 390 8gig version had the same "problem".


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## Mistral (Jul 6, 2016)

nVidia gives you "Founders Edition"
AMD gives you "Download More Ram Edition"

Pretty much in line with standard practice, if you ask me...


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## Cruise51 (Jul 6, 2016)

I don't see why anyone would complain about this. Like buying a 400 horse power car and finding out it actually has 500.


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## arbiter (Jul 6, 2016)

Cruise51 said:


> I don't see why anyone would complain about this. Like buying a 400 horse power car and finding out it actually has 500.


Cept when you unlock that power you find out the rest of the drive train like the transmission and the rear end can't take the power could possible cause damage to the thing.


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## AsRock (Jul 6, 2016)

Recon-UK said:


> 1080, completely maxed with textures on the 3GB recommended setting.
> 990mhz core clock, 4200mhz memory.
> 45-63FPS paired with Phenom II.



Like i said i believe it takes what ever is available,l this is in 1080P.


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## cdawall (Jul 6, 2016)

arbiter said:


> Cept when you unlock that power you find out the rest of the drive train like the transmission and the rear end can't take the power could possible cause damage to the thing.



Bad analogy


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## xkm1948 (Jul 6, 2016)

Nvidia: sells a 3.5gb card as 4gb, legions of people defend it. "Nobody needs 4gb"

Amd: sells 8gb card as 4gb, make it possible for you to unlock. Hordes of people calling it "scam"

This is why we cant have nice things, too much stupidity and ignorance.


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## xkm1948 (Jul 6, 2016)

Cruise51 said:


> I don't see why anyone would complain about this. Like buying a 400 horse power car and finding out it actually has 500.



Nvfanboys will. People need to bash on something to make themselves feel good.


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## Fluffmeister (Jul 6, 2016)

To be fair, the card is too slow for Nv fanboys to even consider.... just messing! 

Like I said, lets hope they all flash to 8GB, less money for AMD at the end of the day, but we all hate corporations am i right????


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## Makaveli (Jul 6, 2016)

xvi said:


> TPU sure loves finding mods for AMD cards.
> ..and I sure love TPU for it.
> 
> Is this your doing again, W1zard?



haha this is exactly the kind of stuff that has had me coming to this site for so long.

Been a Radeon user for a long time!


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## Lionheart (Jul 6, 2016)

Lol this a scam? Whining over something that's not even an issue, basically a tech headed feminist


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## xkm1948 (Jul 6, 2016)

Lionheart said:


> Lol this a scam? Whining over something that's not even an issue, basically a tech headed feminist



Yep. Calling this a scam is even a new low for fanboynism. These idiots should be named fanbabies or fanembryos.


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## Mrcrunch08 (Jul 6, 2016)

I hope people don't get all excited and expect this. It was made clear shortly before the NDA lifted that AMD sent out cards that are able to be 4gb and unlocked to 8gb to reviewers so the can send a reviewer one card and still have both configs reviewed. It would be awesome if it was true for everyone but there are already pics of the 4gb internals from some that clearly show only 4gb of physical ram.


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## xkm1948 (Jul 6, 2016)

Mrcrunch08 said:


> I hope people don't get all excited and expect this. It was made clear shortly before the NDA lifted that AMD sent out cards that are able to be 4gb and unlocked to 8gb to reviewers so the can send a reviewer one card and still have both configs reviewed. It would be awesome if it was true for everyone *but there are already pics of the 4gb internals from some that clearly show only 4gb of physical ram.*




Where? Who posted it? Source? Pictures?

Anyone can claim anything. It means next to a causal fart if no evidence is supplied to back it up.

Wizzard bought a retailed RX480 4GB, flashed the card with 8GB BIOS and have shown all picture proof. How about you show us the part yous said?


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## Melvis (Jul 6, 2016)

Just another reason to take your time buying a new product  Now is the time to buy a RX 480


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## Maddox (Jul 6, 2016)

xkm1948 said:


> Nvidia: sells a 3.5gb card as 4gb, legions of people defend it. "Nobody needs 4gb"
> 
> Amd: sells 8gb card as 4gb, make it possible for you to unlock. Hordes of people calling it "scam"
> 
> This is why we cant have nice things, too much stupidity and ignorance.


I buy and currently run both brands in various PC's, but for my money, nvidia fanboys are up there with Nintendo's and Apple's.  Not saying that AMD doesn't have its few, but there is an obnoxious air about nvidia's legion of cultists that's really pungent.

I particularly like how every summer they go nuts over whatever Titan card drops and go on and on about its insurmountable gaming prowess, then suddenly, around every following Thanksgiving, when a half-the-price and superior x80Ti variant comes out, we're suddenly lectured by the same people that the Titan is actually a production/compute card and was never really meant for pure gaming (although it's a bonus it games well).

Every year.  Do they notice the trend?


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## BlueFalcon (Jul 6, 2016)

the54thvoid said:


> Why even bother releasing a 4GB card if it's the same 8GB card? AMD scamming people again to buy 8GB cards.
> AMD really ought to learn - but good luck to those that flash from 4 to 8Gb!



We are consumers/enthusiasts not AMD/NV shareholders, or at least one would hope so. Any extra hidden value that we can unlock is welcome. Since most PC users will not risk/know about these types of perks, it's not as if AMD is scamming the market since this type of mod would void the card's warranty. 

There have been many examples of extra value added in the past:

6800 non-Ultra pipeline unlock:
http://www.overclock.net/t/56654/guide-to-unlock-pipes-on-a-6800nu

9500 Pro to 9700 unlock:
http://www.digitaltrends.com/how-to/radeon-9500-to-9700-mod-faq-a-follow-up/

6950 2GB to 6970 2GB unlock:
https://www.techpowerup.com/articles/overclocking/vidcard/159

It's remarkable how some people will find anything to complain about. It's even worse to have the useless KINGPIN version of a 980Ti that overclocks no better on water than a standard EVGA SSC 980Ti and then talk about how AMD "scams" gamers on a $239 RX 480 8GB card. 

Using your logic Intel was scamming PC gamers back in the days by selling Pentium 4 C 3.2Ghz when Pentium 4 C 2.4Ghz could easily reach those speeds, and the same for AMD's XP3200+:
http://techreport.com/review/6341/overclocking-the-athlon-xp-m-2500-processor

If extra value added for mainstream/performance gamers upsets you, I am sure NV will welcome you with open arms with Titan e-Peen edition.


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## xvi (Jul 6, 2016)

CounterSpell said:


> soooo.... what would you like with the extra memory?


The ability to use higher resolutions, the ability to load more/higher-res textures, the ability to put whatever you darn well please in to GPU mem, etc. Some people want a fast car and others want a fast car that seats 8.


arbiter said:


> Cept when you unlock that power you find out the rest of the drive train like the transmission and the rear end can't take the power could possible cause damage to the thing.


It's a car that was designed for 500HP and artificially limited to 400HP with, oh I don't know, a restrictor. We're just bringing it back to what it was designed for.


Norton said:


> The only thing is there are some folks (like us) know that you may be able save a few bucks by rolling the dice a little bit


Exactly this. Yes, we'll be rolling the dice. We rolled the dice on HD 6950s, we rolled the dice on x800/x850s, we rolled the dice on 9800s.. we even rolled the dice on AMD Athlon XPs back in the Socket A days, sometimes even shorting out CPU pins for our own evil gains! nVidia users are no exception either.
I was disappointed to hear the initial reports of PCIe power issues on this card, but my interest is re-piqued. This is the positive bump in the media that this card needs and I wouldn't be surprised to see people flocking to these just for the excitement that they might get more than they paid for (which is the same thing that made us love all the other "hidden performance for free" goodie bits).


BlueFalcon said:


> It's even worse to have the useless KINGPIN version of a 980Ti that overclocks no better on water than a standard EVGA SSC 980Ti and then talk about how AMD "scams" gamers


To be fair, it's meant for sub-zero and it's EVGA's marketing, but you're right in that a lot of people seem to buy them thinking they're going to get better overclocks on air/water. You're 110% right about everything in this post though.


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## Mrcrunch08 (Jul 6, 2016)

xkm1948 said:


> Where? Who posted it? Source? Pictures?
> 
> Anyone can claim anything. It means next to a causal fart if no evidence is supplied to back it up.
> 
> Wizzard bought a retailed RX480 4GB, flashed the card with 8GB BIOS and have shown all picture proof. How about you show us the part yous said?


I know I'm not the only one with google and if you care enough use it. With all the videos and info looked up I do not feel like searching google to make someone else happy. I am not that concerned with the issue and just wanted to make sure everyone doesn't expect this and purposely buys a 4gb model thinking they are saving money and getting an 8gb model. I see you highlighted a section of my comment like I was implying those pics means it's not true when I clearly said it was confirmed at least for one particular reason. You just glossed over the fact I said they told reviewers there was a reason for that at one point. It was probably just easier for them to make their first batch all the same. I already returned mine but I hope it is true for everyone in every case that purchased the reference model 4gb version. You need to relax and take in the entire comment instead of the part that pisses you off and get carried away.


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## RichF (Jul 6, 2016)

Mrcrunch08 said:


> I know I'm not the only one with google and if you care enough use it. With all the videos and info looked up I do not feel like searching google to make someone else happy. I am not that concerned with the issue and just wanted to make sure everyone doesn't expect this and purposely buys a 4gb model thinking they are saving money and getting an 8gb model. I see you highlighted a section of my comment like I was implying those pics means it's not true when I clearly said it was confirmed at least for one particular reason. You just glossed over the fact I said they told reviewers there was a reason for that at one point. It was probably just easier for them to make their first batch all the same. I already returned mine but I hope it is true for everyone in every case that purchased the reference model 4gb version. You need to relax and take in the entire comment instead of the part that pisses you off and get carried away.


If you can spend that much time posting you can post a link.


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## truth teller (Jul 6, 2016)

Mrcrunch08 said:


> there are already pics of the 4gb internals from some that clearly show only 4gb of physical ram.


oh come on, you cant create a new account to post that and then not provide anything to back up your "claims"



Mrcrunch08 said:


> *something something something dark side* *something something something complete*


just a picture, thats all it takes, its less time consuming than writing all that konami code verbatim


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## jigar2speed (Jul 6, 2016)

LOL, nvidia fangirls are funny, this is scam ??? Bawahahahahaha...

EDIT: I was just wondering, the person that wrote this was a scam, was he able to keep his face straight. I mean how do you function on daily basis dude ? Its a miracle you are surviving with such IQ in today's world. 

Its a scam!!! Bawahahahahaha...


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## RichF (Jul 6, 2016)

jigar2speed said:


> LOL, nvidia fangirls are funny, this is scam ??? Bawahahahahaha...
> 
> EDIT: I was just wondering, the person that wrote this was a scam, was he able to keep his face straight. I mean how do you function on daily basis dude ? Its a miracle you are surviving with such IQ in today's world.
> 
> Its a scam!!! Bawahahahahaha...


Lotteries are scams. There are based on a weakness of human psychology. Variable ratio reward systems are the most addictive. Lotteries thrive on that.

Lotteries are profitable precisely because they don't give people enough payback to justify the pay-in. They only provide the illusion of doing so. Of course, this is the basis of all profitability. Businesses that give people equal value are "out-competed" by the scammers, provided the scammers are savvy enough. Business that give people more value than what the buyer paid for go out of business in short order.

The problem with lotteries that makes them worse than the general profitability scamming is that the buyer doesn't know what they're buying. Instead, they're buying a hope or a dream — via the variable reward system. That's a step worse than the buyer just not knowing what what they're buying is worth (or not being able to leverage their power to force a seller to provide equivalent product) — the basis of profitability.

It's bad business, in terms of ethics, to do things like the panel lottery in televisions. Even if it reduces the price tag to the consumer a smidgen it reduces the overall value potential of the purchase more when there is high variability in panel quality. So, the more "lottery" a purchase is the more abusive it is, particularly when it involves a large amount of money. 

Since this card does not look to benefit all that much from the additional RAM and isn't a good value for Crossfire (in comparison with just buying one high-performance Pascal) the lottery effect here seems to be rather small.


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## techy1 (Jul 6, 2016)

this is actually very good for AMD (actually so good, that they might leaked it by them selves). why it is good... Let's count out:

1) rx480 is a decent card, but a "meh" card... nobody loves it or gets excited about it - now everybody excited.

2) gtx 1060 is about to come out - excitement about that card is forgotten for a moment

3) knowing points  1) and 2) we can assume that price drops are inevitable

so basically amd made a little price drop now, but not from position: "please buy our card, stock pile up - see we even dropped price for you, please do not make us price drop again :'( "... but now "shyt - look stock s are empty everywhere, people line up to get that "4GB" card so they can "steal/download/hack" a +4GB from us for "free"  "


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## laszlo (Jul 6, 2016)

due the fast launch they don't have available 4gb cards ready and solve it with bios....

this won't last for sure so who can grab now one is lucky


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## jigar2speed (Jul 6, 2016)

laszlo said:


> due the fast launch they don't have available 4gb cards ready and solve it with bios....
> 
> this won't last for sure so who can grab now one is lucky



Yeah, i suggest people to hurry and get *scammed *before the stock last


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## BiggieShady (Jul 6, 2016)

jigar2speed said:


> Yeah, i suggest people to hurry and get *scammed *before the stock last


I skimmed over the thread and to be honest scamming was never mentioned in the way you put it ... not "doing the scam" but "feeling scammed". Some people would feel scammed if they bought 8 GB version for extra $30 yesterday, and some would feel saved from bios flashing for _only_ 30 bucks.


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## the54thvoid (Jul 6, 2016)

Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word scam. I did earlier rephrase but in your slobbering masses you have elected to ignore that point.

As for the Kingpin point, utterly invalid. Like a luxury watch, or a sports car, I simply wanted one. I read all about it, read the EVGA overclocking forum, listened to Vince and understood unless you used exotic cooling it would reach somewhere in the 1500's and it did and that's where I game.

Again, if people want roll around calling me a Fanboy then that must be AMD's fault for not making the fastest single GPU solution. If Vega is as awesome you all hope, I'll likely move to that card.
But imagine if Vega came in two memory amounts and I bought the more expensive higher memory version only to find out I didn't need to because the lower one had the same memory.
It's not the same as fusing it off. Leaving it there is lazy.  And if you charge more for an identical product that's a but unfair.
I know Nvidia have done the same in the past and released cards with more shaders under the same card model, so I'm not being blind.  I'm pointing out AMD are effectively conning the initial buyers who bought the 8Gb model when the cheaper one has the same functioning memory.

So once more, if anyone is capable of logic, its great news for the 4Gb owners but it is a 'little' unfair on those that paid extra for the 8Gb model.


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## laszlo (Jul 6, 2016)

owners of 8Gb can return it if they wish and ask a refund or a 4Gb version if they feel "scammed" 

problem is shipping charges cost more than difference...


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## jigar2speed (Jul 6, 2016)

BiggieShady said:


> I skimmed over the thread and to be honest scamming was never mentioned in the way you put it ... not "doing the scam" but "feeling scammed". Some people would feel scammed if they bought 8 GB version for extra $30 yesterday, and some would feel saved from bios flashing for _only_ 30 bucks.



You know when people feel scammed ? When all AMD RX 480 4GB were converting into 8GB and that not the case here.  So its more appropriate to call it a lottery. Try to understand the difference, you can call it a scam when company is/was deliberately cheating their customer or soon to be customer - example - dare i say driver gimping performance of Nvidia GTX 6** and GTX 7** cards ???

EDIT: Oh and i forgot to add that FE addition example, where people were scammed into paying $100 extra to Nvidia for a card that had nothing extra over reference card and i also forgot to mention about how GTX 1080 customers were further scammed by "retailers" overcharging them for the same overcharged FE card for more than $300 dollars extra. I think we both can agree paying $30 extra and missing out on a lottery is nothing compared to an actual daytime scam that happened in front of everyone. (I think it is still happening no ?? )

EDIT 2: You know, i thought about your response once again and thought how it would have felt to be an SLI customer - EVGA charging extra for some highend SLI Bridge that promises extra performance but when you read Techpowerup review you see it does nothing extra. - Is it called scamming people into buying same stuff but charging extra ? NO ?


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## Recon-UK (Jul 6, 2016)




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## rhythmeister (Jul 6, 2016)

I'm SO tempted to go for one of the reference 4GB ones for £180 at ebuyer at the mo just to see if I can unlock the extra 4GB! At 1920x1080 I don't even need the extra yet so it's worth a gamble for the lol factor isn't it?


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## Totally (Jul 6, 2016)

the54thvoid said:


> I'm not a fan boy you idiot.
> 
> Though it's amusing that people cannot see logic as it stares them in their red little faces.  It's as simple as this.  I buy a 8gb card for 'x' amount but the same card is sold at '<x' with bits simply hidden.  People in the know can just enable the extra 4Gb and have the same card I paid extra for.  It's not a scam but it's fucking lazy of AMD.
> 
> So is it fair that people have rushed out and bought an 8Gb card and paid more for it because it has 8Gb when the cheaper card is also an 8Gb card but AMD didn't tell anyone?  If you think that's fair - you're a douche.



'logic'....ahahaha. To my knowledge happens with every single card albeit with another spec and that is clockspeed. People are more than happy to pay 25-50$, for the same exact card with slightly higher clocks. It's just a matter of opening up the manufacturer provided software and moving a couple sliders. I don't see you or anyone complaining about that when it's the same damn thing in that aspect. To twist your words a bit: "I buy a 1300MHz card for 'x' amount but the same card is sold at 'y' with with the slider moved down to 1100MHz."



Recon-UK said:


>



I wonder if any shady businessmen after seeing that would have thought to buy a bunch of these peeloff the sticker, flash them to 8gb and resell them at the 8gb price. To boot there would be nothing wrong with this, since according to 54th, they'd just be correcting AMD shortcomings.


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## xorbe (Jul 6, 2016)

Totally said:


> I wonder if any shady businessmen after seeing that would have thought to buy a bunch of these peeloff the sticker, flash them to 8gb and resell them at the 8gb price. To boot there would be nothing wrong with this, since according to 54th, they'd just be correcting AMD shortcomings.



Somewhere, someone is doing this right now, almost guaranteed.


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## INSTG8R (Jul 7, 2016)

Shhh now you'll never find one...


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## Makaveli (Jul 7, 2016)

Mrcrunch08 said:


> I hope people don't get all excited and expect this. It was made clear shortly before the NDA lifted that AMD sent out cards that are able to be 4gb and unlocked to 8gb to reviewers so the can send a reviewer one card and still have both configs reviewed. It would be awesome if it was true for everyone but there are already pics of the 4gb internals from some that clearly show only 4gb of physical ram.



http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150771&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&PageSize=10&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&IsFeedbackTab=true#scrollFullInfo&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-The Tech Report-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10487648&PID=1800524&SID=

You better tell that to people buying the cards from newegg!

The very first post is of someone unlocking the memory on a non reference card.


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## BromoL (Jul 7, 2016)

I registered an account for saying: THANKS!

I got my Sapphire RX 480 4GB yesterday (in germany for 219€ from Alternate) and this published test gave me confidence in trying the 8GB bios. Worked like a charm. But i think the days of the reference 4GB version are counted. Only hours after i ordered mine (early monday) it disapeared from all online shops (not even listed as out of stock) in germany and even the marked up offerings from ebay are gone.

Furthermore i want to add: My GPU voltage in the highest power state is only 1.03x volts (forgot the last digit) at stock settings and my power draw is correspondingly lower.

Best regards,
a very happy RX 480 4to8 GB  owner


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## BiggieShady (Jul 7, 2016)

jigar2speed said:


> You know, i thought about your response once again and thought how it would have felt to be an SLI customer - EVGA charging extra for some highend SLI Bridge that promises extra performance but when you read Techpowerup review you see it does nothing extra. - Is it called scamming people into buying same stuff but charging extra ? NO ?


You shouldn't think that much about my responses ... this is all semantic, one can feel scammed and not be a victim of the scam in the same time ... your example of the SLI bridge is great, same performance as the old bridge, people feel scammed, is it really a scam just because SLI games of today don't use extra available bandwidth on the bridge? We will see once devs get creative with multi gpu schemes in dx12, but right now it only gives you what you buy - more bandwidth on the bridge that you don't use.
Same difference, is buyer scammed by not being privy to information of RX480 download more memory upgrade, when he or she is buying 8 GB model? No. Do they feel scammed? Possibly ... but thanks to w1zz the information came early enough.


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## wurschti (Jul 8, 2016)

proxuser said:


> lol time to flash titan x bios to 980
> 
> card is still too weak to my taste. not really interested getting 4gb more vram because it's already low end card.



low end 4K card? yes
low end card? not really. this is a perfect 1080p card, and a good bargain for 1440p, depending on the title. Plus it's not limited to single GPU config for future upgrades and the company is not asking you a shitload of money for the 4GB memory difference. $30 is a minuscule difference if you compare it to NVIDIA's 780's 3GB vs 6GB price difference which was more than $100.


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## rhythmeister (Jul 15, 2016)

Has anyone here liberated the extra 4GB of ram on the XFX Core Edition card?


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## Sunstream (Jul 17, 2016)

Tartaros said:


> Also the 9500 to 9700 mod. That was glorious.



The ATI Radon 9500 to 9700 was Awesome mod and I did it. I was careful to follow the directions back then I was nervous of flashing my video cards because I had a sapphire that did not flash right go to find out that sapphire screwed up told us to flash back to the original bios until they fixed the bug. Sapphire got better. But I had an ATI Radeon 9500 that I mod to 9700 and got much better performance. Now with the 480 could have 8GB so if I buy a 4GB 480 I can try this flash? Or was it with the first few card drops?


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## AsRock (Jul 17, 2016)

RichF said:


> Lotteries are scams. There are based on a weakness of human psychology. Variable ratio reward systems are the most addictive. Lotteries thrive on that.
> 
> Lotteries are profitable precisely because they don't give people enough payback to justify the pay-in. They only provide the illusion of doing so. Of course, this is the basis of all profitability. Businesses that give people equal value are "out-competed" by the scammers, provided the scammers are savvy enough. Business that give people more value than what the buyer paid for go out of business in short order.
> 
> ...



Well if you get a 4GB over a 8GB that's your fault for being a cheap ass, you can easily just pay the extra $30 if you don't that's your fault.



BiggieShady said:


> I skimmed over the thread and to be honest scamming was never mentioned in the way you put it ... not "doing the scam" but "feeling scammed". Some people would feel scammed if they bought 8 GB version for extra $30 yesterday, and some would feel saved from bios flashing for _only_ 30 bucks.



But you got what you payed for so they should stop bitching and man up, this happens with so many products so company's save money at the start of production dam some even do it later on in production.


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## Flow (Jul 17, 2016)

BiggieShady said:


> I skimmed over the thread and to be honest scamming was never mentioned in the way you put it ... not "doing the scam" but "feeling scammed". Some people would feel scammed if they bought 8 GB version for extra $30 yesterday, and some would feel saved from bios flashing for _only_ 30 bucks.



Agreed 100%.
I once got myself the 6950 Toxic which had the 6970 bios on the second switch position. While not 100% guaranteed, which was stated on the box, it did work as intended. I got it at a time already newer revisions of the 6950 pcb did not unlock anymore so I "payed" off the risks. While having a bios switch on my 7970Ghz, it proved useless since any modification made to the bios simply did not unlock anything or changed voltages etc.
This was rather disapointing for me, as is the lack of a bios switch on my 390, which otherwise would give me a "safe" crack in unlocking extra shaders if at all possible.

Anyway, no such thing as a scam, just an extra bonus for those willing to roll the dice and gain some extra memory. Tweakers galore, a nice extra for those that like to tweak and take a chance.


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## BiggieShady (Jul 18, 2016)

AsRock said:


> But you got what you payed for


You always get what you pay for because that's definition of buying.


AsRock said:


> so they should stop bitching and man up


It's like buying a game on Steam one day before the summer sale, keyboards get soaked in manly tears


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