# Help for choosing a CPU with RTX 3070 FE



## Kindalou (Apr 16, 2021)

Hello , 
With the release of the latest processors I am really lost and would like some help choosing my latest components. 
Currently I bought:  

Noctua DH-15  
PSU Corsair RM750 
RTX 3070 FE 
Now I have to change my i5 2500k CPU with 16GB DDR3. 
Here are the four planned builds: 

Ryzen 3600 + B550 Tomahawk or F Gaming + 16 GB DDR4 Ballistix 3200mhz. 
Ryzen 3700x + B550 Tomahawk or F Gaming + 16 GB DDR4 Ballistix 3200mhz. 
Intel i5 10400f + B460 + 16 GB DDR4 Ballistix 3200mhz. 
Intel i5 10600kf + Z490 + 16 GB DDR4 Ballistix 3200mhz. 
I want to have a good quality / price ratio knowing that I only do games in 1440p 75mhz, no streams or other heavy activities. (Just multitasking on 2 screens)
Do you have any advice? The Z490 seems too expensive to me with the lack of PCI 4.0, too bad because the i5 10600kf has dropped in price. I would tend to go for AMD for PCI 4.0


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## BarbaricSoul (Apr 17, 2021)

Get the 10600KF combo. I personally would not put too much emphasis on PCIe 4.0 right now. There is barely any difference between 3.0 *16  and 4.0 *16.  https://www.techspot.com/review/2104-pcie4-vs-pcie3-gpu-performance/


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## Why_Me (Apr 18, 2021)

http://www.allstarshop.com/shop/Asus-Prime-B560-Plus_82_56839.html
Asus Prime B560-Plus $127.95

https://www.amazon.com/Intel-i5-11400F-Desktop-Processor-LGA1200/dp/B08X6SZ184/Intel Core i5-11400F $174.99

https://www.newegg.com/ballistix-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820164176
Crucial Ballistix 3200MHz 16GB (8GBx2) CL16 $88.99

https://www.adorama.com/inbx8781170f.html
Intel Core i7-11700F $365.49









						Intel Core i5 11400F processor review
					

We again descend from eight towards six processor cores and twelve threads, this round with the Core i5 11400F, a processor that might be considered the most high-grade value for money in the Rocket L... An Introduction




					www.guru3d.com


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## Kindalou (Apr 18, 2021)

@Why_Me and @BarbaricSoul 
Thanks for your advice, I'm quite annoying because the performance difference between 3600 and 10600kf is not crazy compared to the price difference
 currently i can have a :
 Ryzen 3600 + MSI B450 Gaming Plus Max + 2x8GB Ballistix DDR4 3200mhz for $ 432 
Or 
i5 10600kf + MSI Z490 - A Pro + 2x8GB DDR4 ballistix 3600mhz for $ 515 

What do you think ?


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Apr 18, 2021)

get the second option, Ryzen 3600,its the best price to performance ratio for your build


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## Kindalou (Apr 18, 2021)

@Solid State Soul ( SSS ) The first option ? no need to invest more in a B550


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## Selaya (Apr 18, 2021)

11400f or 10400f.
Seeing as you already bought the NH-D15, you might asw go with the 11400f as the NH-D15 will have no trouble handling the 200W+ from the 11400f.

(It'd also give you PCIe 4.0 for the GPU and the first m.2.)


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## Deleted member 205776 (Apr 18, 2021)

I second the 11400F or 10400F.


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## Kindalou (Apr 18, 2021)

Thanks for your advice I didn't consider the 11400f at all, I had a bad opinion on the very limited memory speed limitation on the 10400f.

I'll read up on the subject.


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## BarbaricSoul (Apr 18, 2021)

I still say the 10600kf is the best option. https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-10600KF-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-3600/m1225152vs4040


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## Kindalou (Apr 19, 2021)

@BarbaricSoul 

It would be interesting to see the z490 drop in price. I find it quite expensive compared to the proposed technology


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## Why_Me (Apr 19, 2021)

Kindalou said:


> @Why_Me and @BarbaricSoul
> Thanks for your advice, I'm quite annoying because the performance difference between 3600 and 10600kf is not crazy compared to the price difference
> currently i can have a :
> Ryzen 3600 + MSI B450 Gaming Plus Max + 2x8GB Ballistix DDR4 3200mhz for $ 432
> ...


What country are you located because that makes a difference depending on your budget and current stock/prices, etc ...


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## Kindalou (Apr 19, 2021)

@Why_Me 
It would be for a purchase in France but I could see that it is interesting to buy in Germany or in Spain for example


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## Selaya (Apr 19, 2021)

11400f ties with the 10600k (for gaming), is cheaper and better for productivity (if you dont mind the extra power consumption).
Seeing as the OP's already got the NH-D15 the power consumption is a nonissue because the NH-D15 is more than competent at handling a 200W 14nm part, so I see no reason to go with the 10600k. The only other option I can see is the 10400f which should be even cheaper, but given a build of this caliber idt the extra $15 savings would matter.


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## nguyen (Apr 19, 2021)

I would just go one extra mile and get the 10700F + B560 combo for the longevity of the system, there is really no point to overclock with Intel 10th and 11th gen anymore.


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## Why_Me (Apr 19, 2021)

Kindalou said:


> @Why_Me
> It would be for a purchase in France but I could see that it is interesting to buy in Germany or in Spain for example


B560 board + 11400F, Z590 board + 11600KF, 570/B550 board + 3600, 570/B550 + 5600X.  Time to start a poll. 

https://www.materiel.net/produit/202003040051.html 
Intel Core i5 10400F 169€96









						Intel Core i5 11400F - Processeur Intel sur Materiel.net
					

Achetez votre Processeur Intel Core i5 11400F (BX8070811400F) sur Materiel.net ! Paiement en 3X dès 100€, livraison rapide ou retrait en magasin | 6 coeurs, 12 threads, 2.60 GHz, 12 Mo, Rocket Lake, 65 Watts, BX8070811400F.




					www.materiel.net
				



Intel Core i5 11400F 209€95

https://www.materiel.net/produit/202103160171.html
AMD Ryzen 5 3600 (no cooler) 219€95

https://www.materiel.net/produit/202003040070.html
Intel Core i5 10600KF 239€95

https://www.materiel.net/produit/202102190008.html
Intel Core i5 11600KF 299€95









						AMD Ryzen 5 5600X - version tray - Processeur AMD sur Materiel.net | OOP
					

Achetez votre Processeur AMD Ryzen 5 5600X - version tray (100-000000065 ) sur Materiel.net ! Paiement en 3X dès 100€, livraison rapide ou retrait en magasin | 6 coeurs, 3,70 GHz, 32 Mo, AMD Zen 3, 65 Watts, version sans ventilateur.




					www.materiel.net
				



AMD Ryzen 5 5600X (no cooler) 379€94



nguyen said:


> I would just go one extra mile and get the 10700F + B560 combo for the longevity of the system, there is really no point to overclock with Intel 10th and 11th gen anymore.


https://www.materiel.net/produit/202003040077.html
Intel Core i7 10700F 369€95

https://www.materiel.net/produit/202103170033.html
Intel Core i7 11700F 399€95



Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> get the second option, Ryzen 3600,its the best price to performance ratio for your build


I don't think I've ever seen you make a bad post during my short time on here so I'm guessing there's some logic behind that reasoning but tbh I'm not seeing it.


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## oxrufiioxo (Apr 19, 2021)

For 1440/75hz get whatever is the cheapest option they will all perform about the same.

As long as it's at least 6 core 12 threads.


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## Why_Me (Apr 19, 2021)

I'd go this route.

https://www.materiel.net/produit/202103100127.html
Gigabyte B560M Aorus ELITE 149€95

https://www.materiel.net/produit/202102150057.html
Intel Core i5 11400F 209€95

https://www.materiel.net/produit/202001270100.html
Crucial Ballistix 3200MHz 16GB (8GBx2) CL16 127€94









						The Intel B560 Motherboard Overview: 30+ Budget Models Starting from $75
					






					www.anandtech.com
				



*GIGABYTE B560M Aorus Elite*






						B560M AORUS ELITE (rev. 1.x) Key Features | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global
					

Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...




					www.gigabyte.com


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## evernessince (Apr 19, 2021)

For your current use, all of these options are going to have equal performance in games. Given the price savings of the 10400F, that would be the CPU I recommend.  Take the extra cash and save it for when CPUs with a larger performance gain release.

"I would just go one extra mile and get the 10700F + B560 combo for the longevity of the system, there is really no point to overclock with Intel 10th and 11th gen anymore."

With a B Class motherboard (which will hamper the 10700F's performance) he'd be looking at maybe 4% extra performance sometime in the future.  The real future proofing is buying the 10400F and simply taking the money he saved and pocketing it.  5 Years from now he can then pay off 65% of his next CPU with the save money alone and reap a much larger IPC and core count benefit.  Now that is future proofing.


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## Why_Me (Apr 19, 2021)

evernessince said:


> For your current use, all of these options are going to have equal performance in games. Given the price savings of the 10400F, that would be the CPU I recommend.  Take the extra cash and save it for when CPUs with a larger performance gain release.
> 
> "I would just go one extra mile and get the 10700F + B560 combo for the longevity of the system, there is really no point to overclock with Intel 10th and 11th gen anymore."
> 
> *With a B Class motherboard (which will hamper the 10700F's performance)* he'd be looking at maybe 4% extra performance sometime in the future.  The real future proofing is buying the 10400F and simply taking the money he saved and pocketing it.  5 Years from now he can then pay off 65% of his next CPU with the save money alone and reap a much larger IPC and core count benefit.  Now that is future proofing.


How would a B560 board hamper the 10700F?


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## evernessince (Apr 19, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> How would a B560 board hamper the 10700F?



A majority of the Z class motherboards push Intel CPUs beyond spec.  Intel base specs only state a turbo of 30 seconds and the 10700F has a "TDP" of 60W.  B Class by their nature of being cheaper cut corners and one of those is more restrictive power limits and cheaper VRMs.

Reviews are done with the absolute best and Intel's 10000 series are power hogs which is why getting the performance stated in benchmarks in unlikely on a lower end motherboard with likely low to mid range cooling.  Heck, even a decent amount of Z class motherboards do a pretty poor job. As HardwareUnboxed has demonstrated, the VRM on some boards reach dangerous levels and throttle.

The 10400F not only uses less power, for anyone not rocking a 3090 it's more than enough for the vast majority of people.


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## ratirt (Apr 19, 2021)

I'd go 1600KF. Nothing less and nothing more than that. Solid performance for the buck if you are not considering AMD. I would go for a build that is the cheapest in your region.


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## Why_Me (Apr 19, 2021)

evernessince said:


> A majority of the Z class motherboards push Intel CPUs beyond spec.  Intel base specs only state a turbo of 30 seconds and the 10700F has a "TDP" of 60W.  B Class by their nature of being cheaper cut corners and one of those is more restrictive power limits and cheaper VRMs.
> 
> Reviews are done with the absolute best and Intel's 10000 series are power hogs which is why getting the performance stated in benchmarks in unlikely on a lower end motherboard with likely low to mid range cooling.  Heck, even a decent amount of Z class motherboards do a pretty poor job. As HardwareUnboxed has demonstrated, the VRM on some boards reach dangerous levels and throttle.
> 
> The 10400F not only uses less power, for anyone not rocking a 3090 it's more than enough for the vast majority of people.


This guy goes into the B560 power limit starting @ the 2:40 mark in this vid.











MSI B560 Tomahawk + i5-11400F + DDR4-3200 with power limits turned off.









						Intel Core i5-11400F Review: The New Value Champ
					

The Core i5-11400F coupled with a B560 motherboard make for an interesting build configuration, as it's significantly cheaper than the Core i5-11600K/Z590 and less than the cost...




					www.techspot.com


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## nguyen (Apr 19, 2021)

evernessince said:


> For your current use, all of these options are going to have equal performance in games. Given the price savings of the 10400F, that would be the CPU I recommend.  Take the extra cash and save it for when CPUs with a larger performance gain release.
> 
> "I would just go one extra mile and get the 10700F + B560 combo for the longevity of the system, there is really no point to overclock with Intel 10th and 11th gen anymore."
> 
> With a B Class motherboard (which will hamper the 10700F's performance) he'd be looking at maybe 4% extra performance sometime in the future.  The real future proofing is buying the 10400F and simply taking the money he saved and pocketing it.  5 Years from now he can then pay off 65% of his next CPU with the save money alone and reap a much larger IPC and core count benefit.  Now that is future proofing.



Reasons why 10700F is better than 10400F:

_Spending 100usd more to get 5-10% more performance is well worth it for a 2000usd rig (well the 3070 alone is 1500usd LOL).
_The performance gap between 6 cores and 8 cores CPU will continue to rise in the future, since newer games will utilize more cores.
_There is really no need to waste money upgrading to any Intel 10th or 11th gen CPU from 10700F. If you bought 10400F now then sell it to buy 10900F in the future, you will have to fork out 200usd for 5-10% higher FPS than an 10700F. Save some cash now only to spend more later is not an ideal solution, especially since OP can afford the 10700F.










And any B560 or H570 board can handle 10700F just fine in gaming, there is no need to spend extra for VRM since these 8 cores CPUs only use 80-100W during gaming. If OP is using his rig for rendering or production he would be better off with a 3900X anyways.

PS: 10700F is only 270usd on amazon right now.


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## Kindalou (Apr 19, 2021)

Thank you (@nguyen , @Why_Me , @ratirt , @evernessince @Selaya , @oxrufiioxo ) for your answers here are currently the prices of processors including postage: 
- Ryzen 3600 - 201 €
- i5 10400f - 145 € 
- i5 11400f - 179€
- i5 10600kf - 195 € 
- i7 10700 - 265 € 
- i7 10700kf - € 295 
- Ryzen 3700x - € 295 

What is blocking most often is the motherboard in Z490 or Z590 for INTEL. The B550 motherboards are inexpensive with a price in the 130 € instead of 170 € for the Z490 and 190 € for the Z590.

I currently have an i5 2500k despite the OC possibilities I have never performed this action, it is something that worries me so the OC option is in my opinion unnecessary for me.

My PC is 10 years old with just the purchase of a GTX 1060 6GB 3 years ago. The goal is to have a good time with this new configuration especially for games like the total war series where I spend the most time playing.


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## evernessince (Apr 19, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> This guy goes into the B560 power limit starting @ the 2:40 mark in this vid.



Your question was "How would a B560 board hamper the 10700F?", the linked video refers to a 11400F.  Makes sense, pairing a mid-range CPU with a mid-range board.



nguyen said:


> Reasons why 10700F is better than 10400F:
> 
> _Spending 100usd more to get 5-10% more performance is well worth it for a 2000usd rig (well the 3070 alone is 1500usd LOL).
> _The performance gap between 6 cores and 8 cores CPU will continue to rise in the future, since newer games will utilize more cores.
> ...



First off, single thread the 10700K stock uses 113w









						Intel Core i7-10700K processor review
					

A review that has been overdue is the 8-core Core i7-10700K processor from Intel. The 10th generation Intel Core desktop processors previously known as CML aka Comet Lake has been received with mixed ... Power Consumption and CPU LOAD temperatures




					www.guru3d.com
				




Multi-thread is 248w.  Assuming that gaming is between those figures, your watt estimate vastly under-estimates power consumption.

"Spending 100usd more to get 5-10% more performance is well worth it for a 2000usd rig (well the 3070 alone is 1500usd LOL)."

He's getting 0% extra performance at 1440p with a 75hz monitor.  Consider the use case.  Even if he had a 144z monitor, at 1440p the difference between the 10400F and 10700K is nill.

"The performance gap between 6 cores and 8 cores CPU will continue to rise in the future, since newer games will utilize more cores."

At that point you can take the $100+ he saved and buy another CPU at the same tier as the 10400F and get more core and more IPC.  There's also the proceeds from his current CPU.

"There is really no need to waste money upgrading to any Intel 10th or 11th gen CPU from 10700F. If you bought 10400F now then sell it to buy 10900F in the future, you will have to fork out 200usd for 5-10% higher FPS than an"

No one is recommending that course of action.  You'd buy whichever CPU, motherboard combo is the best value at the time.  If he wanted to upgrade on the same motherboard AMD is the far better choice as AMD's 5000 series thrashes Intel in all respects, especially core count.

What's wasting money is spending $100+ extra on a processor that will provide no benefit to the OP.  When games start requiring 8 cores the OP can easily take the money he's saved and buy whatever new gear is out at the time.

Wise upgrading is about getting the best value for your money and taking the savings and upgrading more frequently.  That way you get the benefit of CPUs designed for modern games instead of hoping that a CPU will be adequate in the future.  If the 7700K is any indication of future performance, it's plain to see frequent upgrades between the best bang for your buck products is clearly the best option.


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## nguyen (Apr 19, 2021)

evernessince said:


> Your question was "How would a B560 board hamper the 10700F?", the linked video refers to a 11400F.  Makes sense, pairing a mid-range CPU with a mid-range board.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



All wrong, 10700F should pull around or less than 100W during heavy gaming. You should stop quoting power consumption under Cinebench as every reviewer like to use, that is just a wrong way to look at power consumption during gaming. You can ask @W1zzard how much power these CPU use during gaming, he knows best.










So here is something you don't get, If OP wants to upgrade to 10700F in the future, he would have to spend another 100usd after selling his used 10400F, why not just spend that 100usd to get top performance from day 1. Kinda short sighted to save 100usd just to spend it later, unless you are short on cash, which OP doesn't seem to be.


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## Raendor (Apr 19, 2021)

evernessince said:


> Your question was "How would a B560 board hamper the 10700F?", the linked video refers to a 11400F.  Makes sense, pairing a mid-range CPU with a mid-range board.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


True words! I've learned that personally as well. Go for performance/price king now and by the time it doesn't cut - get the next one. Future-proofing is useless. By the time your mid-range is not enough anymore - the one-tier higher thing won't save you either and will be already matched or obliterated by the next mid-range king.


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## Selaya (Apr 19, 2021)

Yeah, don't buy 8-core cpus. Like, seriously. The 8-core tax is real (50% 10700-11400f, 80% 10700-10400f LOL), 6-cores are de wae as of right now.
Quite besides, I do not foresee console ports using more than 12 threads in the foreseeable future since the last few cores/threads on the consoles are reserved for the OS and not to be used for gaming. So there's that too.


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## GerKNG (Apr 19, 2021)

11400f or a 10700kf on sale


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## Why_Me (Apr 19, 2021)

A bit off topic but after going through that French website I noticed the Europeans are getting hardware that isn't being sold in NA such as that Gigabyte B560 board I linked in the previous post.  That board would sell big time in NA so why don't we have it here. 






						B560M AORUS ELITE (rev. 1.x) Key Features | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global
					

Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...




					www.gigabyte.com


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## Kindalou (Apr 19, 2021)

@evernessince 
Thank you for the advice I understand the logic of saving now to buy more efficient equipment later.
Progress is so rapid that it is quite possible that when the i5 10400f or 11400f is exceeded the higher processors will have to drop in price.

In this logic we have an interesting offer in France on a cooler the Dark rock Slim from bequiet at 25 €, would it be enough for my use rather than the big Noctua DH-15 that I can still return bought 95 €?
I will take advantage of your advice which really allows me to understand and make the right choices. Regarding motherboard models I'm looking for an attractive price are there any brands or models to favor?


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## milewski1015 (Apr 19, 2021)

nguyen said:


> All wrong, 10700F should pull around or less than 100W during heavy gaming. You should stop quoting power consumption under Cinebench as every reviewer like to use, that is just a wrong way to look at power consumption during gaming. You can ask @W1zzard how much power these CPU use during gaming, he knows best.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Power is already a moot point since OP has an NH-D15 that is more than capable.

Then why not use W1zzard's test data?

Pulled from the 1440p gaming results page of the 10700 review: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i7-10700/16.html






OP's already stated prices for the processors. 145 euro for a 10400F vs. 265 euro for a 10700. To me, 120 euro isn't worth a maximum 1.8% gaming performance increase, especially when OP won't make use of the increased core count the 10700 offers.


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## fma67 (Apr 19, 2021)

I would go for 3600 and B550


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## milewski1015 (Apr 19, 2021)

Kindalou said:


> In this logic we have an interesting offer in France on a cooler the Dark rock Slim from bequiet at 25 €, would it be enough for my use rather than the big Noctua DH-15 that I can still return bought 95 €?


They're not really in the same realm of performance. The Dark Rock Slim is more comparable to something like the NH-U12S. I would stick with the NH-D15 to be honest.


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## Why_Me (Apr 19, 2021)

fma67 said:


> I would go for 3600 and B550


And why is that?


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## milewski1015 (Apr 19, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> And why is that?


There really isn't a logical reason. 10400F/11400F and a B560 board offer equal or better gaming performance. The prices OP listed for CPUs put a 3600 at €201, while the 10400F/11400F sit at €145 and €179 respectively. I can't speak on B560 pricing, but I'd imagine they're similar or maybe only slightly more than the aforementioned €130 for B550. Sure, you might be limited to DDR4-3200, but that just means you can buy a cheaper RAM kit for again, equal or better gaming performance.

Edit: 11400F provides PCIe 4.0 parity with the 3600/B550 combo. Not a huge deal but worth noting.


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## Why_Me (Apr 19, 2021)

Kindalou said:


> @evernessince
> Thank you for the advice I understand the logic of saving now to buy more efficient equipment later.
> Progress is so rapid that it is quite possible that when the i5 10400f or 11400f is exceeded the higher processors will have to drop in price.
> 
> ...


The Dark Rock Slim will work fine as long as you don't turn off the power limits in the bios.  If you plan on turning off the power limits then stick with the Noctua.


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## evernessince (Apr 19, 2021)

Kindalou said:


> @evernessince
> Thank you for the advice I understand the logic of saving now to buy more efficient equipment later.
> Progress is so rapid that it is quite possible that when the i5 10400f or 11400f is exceeded the higher processors will have to drop in price.
> 
> ...



Yes, that cooler should be more the adequate.  You could probably go even cheaper if you wanted to save more with something like the Deepcool Gammax 400 or Hyper 212.  Alternatively the MSI Core Frozr L is a bit better performing than the dark rock slim and has a lower MSRP.  The NH-D15 is indeed overkill for your build / use case.


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## Raendor (Apr 19, 2021)

milewski1015 said:


> There really isn't a logical reason. 10400F/11400F and a B560 board offer equal or better gaming performance. The prices OP listed for CPUs put a 3600 at €201, while the 10400F/11400F sit at €145 and €179 respectively. I can't speak on B560 pricing, but I'd imagine they're similar or maybe only slightly more than the aforementioned €130 for B550. Sure, you might be limited to DDR4-3200, but that just means you can buy a cheaper RAM kit for again, equal or better gaming performance.
> 
> Edit: 11400F provides PCIe 4.0 parity with the 3600/B550 combo. Not a huge deal but worth noting.


You’re not limited to 3200 on b560. but with gear 1 even CL16 performs no worse than 3600 and 4000 sticks in gaming.


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## milewski1015 (Apr 19, 2021)

Raendor said:


> You’re not limited to 3200 on b560. but with gear 1 even CL16 performs no worse than 3600 and 4000 sticks in gaming.


My mistake. Mondays amirite?


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## Kindalou (Apr 19, 2021)

The cooler being really cheap for 25 € I will keep it for the moment and if I need to unleash the processor to have higher performance (which should not be the case now) I will be able to spend on a few more things efficient.


I will look at the B560 models, currently the prices are in the 160 € in France for the asrock B560 Pro4


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## Why_Me (Apr 19, 2021)

Kindalou said:


> The cooler being really cheap for 25 € I will keep it for the moment and if I need to unleash the processor to have higher performance (which should not be the case now) I will be able to spend on a few more things efficient.
> 
> 
> I will look at the B560 models, currently the prices are in the 160 € in France for the asrock B560 Pro4


This is twice the board as the Asrock Pro 4.

https://www.materiel.net/produit/202103100127.html
Gigabyte B560M Aorus ELITE 149€95


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## Kindalou (Apr 20, 2021)

@Why_Me I have a large case with an ATX motherboard. I didn't think about the micro ATX, I just risk losing PCI ports? Since I only use a graphics card it is true that the choice is interesting in addition it is much nicer.


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## Raendor (Apr 20, 2021)

Kindalou said:


> @Why_Me I have a large case with an ATX motherboard. I didn't think about the micro ATX, I just risk losing PCI ports? Since I only use a graphics card it is true that the choice is interesting in addition it is much nicer.


You could swith to itx master race


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## Calmmo (Apr 20, 2021)

value wise the 11400 is the best one by far.


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## las (Apr 20, 2021)

11400 with a motherboard that can OC Non-K CPUs (Like AsRock BFB) are by far the best option value-wise, plus you can skimp on RAM because Intel CPU's perform almost identical regardless of 3200/CL16 or 4000/CL15 - especially good value if you combine with money back deals (there's a few running), 10th gen have some good deals right now too and performs almost identical.

AMDs value is not great right now, prices are jacked up because TSMC can't really deliver, so demand is high and yields seem bad on ryzen 5900/5950. I'm sure AMD has shipped ALOT more 5600X and 5800X compared to 5900X/5950X.. 5950X is almost a halo product.. A friend of mine have waited for months and months for his, ordered on release! Ryzen 3000 series performs worse in gaming than Intel chips, even 8th gen like 8700K will beat any and all Ryzen 3000 in gaming and especially emulation if you are into that. AMD CPU/GPU typically performs bad in emulation tasks.



Raendor said:


> You could swith to itx master race



Master race? High-end hardware in ITX cases = Hot and Loud, and often throttling unless you spend a big chump of cash on custom water or top-end AIO + premium fans like Noctua

I like small ITX builds, and I have a few (HTPC + "Mid-End" gaming PC), but calling it master race would be kinda stupid, since you limit your options alot and needs to really think about CPU/GPU configs. Alot of ITX users undervolt and underclock to keep temps and noise down, especially when using 300+ watt GPUs like 3080/3090 and 6800XT/6900XT. That is just asking for trouble, 3090 and 6900XT can peak at like 500 watts


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## Raendor (Apr 20, 2021)

las said:


> 11400 with a motherboard that can OC Non-K CPUs (Like AsRock BFB) are by far the best option value-wise, plus you can skimp on RAM because Intel CPU's perform almost identical regardless of 3200/CL16 or 4000/CL15 - especially good value if you combine with money back deals (there's a few running), 10th gen have some good deals right now too and performs almost identical.
> 
> AMDs value is not great right now, prices are jacked up because TSMC can't really deliver, so demand is high and yields seem bad on ryzen 5900/5950. I'm sure AMD has shipped ALOT more 5600X and 5800X compared to 5900X/5950X.. 5950X is almost a halo product.. A friend of mine have waited for months and months for his, ordered on release! Ryzen 3000 series performs worse in gaming than Intel chips, even 8th gen like 8700K will beat any and all Ryzen 3000 in gaming and especially emulation if you are into that. AMD CPU/GPU typically performs bad in emulation tasks.
> 
> ...


No problem with high-end hardware in modern cases at all. You can easily have better temps than mainstream ATX cases. Look for builds in Ncase M1, CM NR200P, Sliger, Form T1, etc. I'm running 6800xt in Ncase M1 and it's silent and cool despite being 250w part. No need for water either with lots of air cooling options.


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## las (Apr 20, 2021)

Raendor said:


> No problem with high-end hardware in modern cases at all. You can easily have better temps than mainstream ATX cases. Look for builds in Ncase M1, CM NR200P, Sliger, Form T1, etc. I'm running 6800xt in Ncase M1 and it's silent and cool despite being 250w part. No need for water either with lots of air cooling options.



It's subjective, my current system is so quiet, I can't hear if it's ON or OFF outside of benching, stress testing or gaming, then it ramps up to 25dB or so. You will never get that in an ITX case. You need to sacrifice on performance or accept higher noise output. I have put together tons of ITX systems.

No ITX board would drive my 9900K at 5.2 GHz like im doing. Or allow my 3080 to stay at 2000+ in all games.

Small systems are nice and all, but nothing master race about going ITX. VRM solutions on most if not all ITX boards are pretty bad.


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## Raendor (Apr 20, 2021)

las said:


> It's subjective, my current system is so quiet, I can't hear if it's ON or OFF outside of benching, stress testing or gaming, then it ramps up to 25dB or so. You will never get that in an ITX case. You need to sacrifice on performance or accept higher noise output. I have put together tons of ITX systems.
> 
> No ITX board would drive my 9900K at 5.2 GHz like im doing. Or allow my 3080 to stay at 2000+ in all games.
> 
> Small systems are nice and all, but nothing master race about going ITX. VRM solutions on most if not all ITX boards are pretty bad.


Man, it's not subjective and is simply bias/misconception. Maybe for you, because you never tried yourself properly. There's a huge community on Reddit and youtube of people that build SSSFPs specifically with high-end and mainstream parts focused on noise and temps/performance too. I'm not here to convince you as you seem to be convinced, but for overwhelming majority of users still building ATX - it's continuing on wasting space, while also having a lot of times worse temps than if you go to something nice and small AND accessible like NR200P. Not going to highjack the topic further. At one point I went itx and will never ever go back to ATX pc for home use.


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## las (Apr 20, 2021)

Raendor said:


> Man, it's not subjective and is simply bias/misconception. Maybe for you, because you never tried yourself properly. There's a huge community on Reddit and youtube of people that build SSSFPs specifically with high-end and mainstream parts focused on noise and temps/performance too. I'm not here to convince you as you seem to be convinced, but for overwhelming majority of users still building ATX - it's continuing on wasting space, while also having a lot of times worse temps than if you go to something nice and small AND accessible like NR200P. Not going to highjack the topic further. At one point I went itx and will never ever go back to ATX pc for home use.



I've built numerous SFF builds and heat/noise is always the biggest problem, keeping you from using high-end parts and OC without limits, It's simply not happening in ITX. It's as simple as that. ITX Motherboards have weak VRMs and the system will be noisy if you go all-out cooling-wise, to keep temps down, or you are limited space-wise to use top-end parts (hardware AND cooling). Name ONE ITX board with good VRMs, I'm waiting.

Are you seriously trying to tell that you can built a premium (as in highest-end) ITX build and get the same noise and temps as a mATX/ATX case, for the same price?     

ATX outsells ITX like 10:1, because it's much easier to work with and way easier to get a cool and quiet system, while performance is still top-end. Airflow is terrible in most ITX systems.


NR200P is not a small ITX case, it's almost as big as some mATX cases.... What is the point in buying ITX motherboard then.

I have a Ncase M1 which is fine but I would never throw high-end parts inside it.


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## Kindalou (Apr 20, 2021)

My choice will therefore be on:
- i5 11400f
- Cpu cooler: Scythe fuma 2 not very expensive with interesting performances and a design allowing not to restrict myself to the level of memory.
- B560 model to be defined according to the offers, too bad I did not find a tier list as for the B550.
- Memory: 2x8Go Ballistix 3600mhz CL16


Temptations are everywhere in France the price of the 3700x is now 257 €. Hope there will be a good deal on a 11400f


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## milewski1015 (Apr 20, 2021)

las said:


> Name ONE ITX board with good VRMs, I'm waiting.


The Gigabyte X570I Aorus Pro Wifi is rocking an 8 phase with 70A smart power stages. Sure, it's not going to compare to an ATX board where they have much more room to work with, but it's perfectly capable of at least an overclocked 3950X. 



las said:


> ATX outsells ITX like 10:1, because it's much easier to work with and way easier to get a cool and quiet system, while performance is still top-end.


Not to mention that in general, ITX cases tend to be much more expensive than the majority of ATX cases. Cost is probably a barrier to entry for the SFF world for a good amount of people (expensive cases, expensive ITX mobos, have to spend more money on cooling). 

I don't think @Raendor was trying to imply that ITX is better than ATX by calling it master race. I believe they were just referring to the SFF community the same nonsensical way the PC gaming community refers to themselves. From what I understand, a lot of SFF builders enjoy the challenge of fitting high end parts and cooling into a small case, and are happy to accept the tradeoffs that come with that.


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Apr 20, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> I don't think I've ever seen you make a bad post during my short time on here so I'm guessing there's some logic behind that reasoning but tbh I'm not seeing it.


Whats wrong with the 3600 ?
it IS one of the best price to performance ratio AMD has to offer right now with better IPC than intel.


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## Why_Me (Apr 20, 2021)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> Whats wrong with the 3600 ?
> it IS one of the best price to performance ratio AMD has to offer right now with better IPC than intel.


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## milewski1015 (Apr 20, 2021)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> Whats wrong with the 3600 ?
> it IS one of the best price to performance ratio AMD has to offer right now with better IPC than intel.


I don't really like turning to these unknown YouTube benchmark videos like the one @Why_Me shared, but even the major tech reviewers are singing the praises of the 11400. Sure, the 3600 is AMD's best foot forward right now in terms of price to performance (upgrading from a 3600 to a 5600X generally isn't worth it if you're just gaming), but it's difficult to find at MSRP. A quick check on PCPP (not the end-all-be-all of retail availability of course, but a good snapshot in my opinion) shows the 3600 OOS everywhere aside from a 234 USD listing on Amazon.

TPU's 11400F review has it beating the 3600 at minimum by 8.3% in 1080p gaming, 6.4% in 1440p gaming, and 2.9% in 4K gaming. GN's review had the 11400 beating the 3600 in every single game tested (1080p and 1440p). It did lose to the 3600 in the majority of productivity workloads, but if you're just looking to throw together a gaming build, you can't beat the value proposition the 11400 has to offer. Until AMD can offer a Zen3 part at the 200ish USD price point that remains available, the 11400, in my opinion, is what people looking to throw together a new strictly gaming-focused build should be shopping for.

Edit: @Selaya beings up a good point, a 10400 (in gaming) performs essentially the same to the 11400 according to TPU's review. You do lose PCIe 4.0 support (which could become relevant for gamers in the future depending on how DirectStorage turns out), but if found at a significant discount, it could be an even better value option.


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## Selaya (Apr 20, 2021)

IPC is a fairly useless metric when it comes to gaming performance as most if not all games right now are not bottlenecked by that but rather by the IMC's (lack of) performance.
That is also the reason why for the most part Rocket Lake fails at posting gains from the umpteenth regurgitated iteration of Sky- and Shitlake simply bc the more mature IMC is far more performant than the backported one of Rocket Lake.


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## Raendor (Apr 20, 2021)

milewski1015 said:


> The Gigabyte X570I Aorus Pro Wifi is rocking an 8 phase with 70A smart power stages. Sure, it's not going to compare to an ATX board where they have much more room to work with, but it's perfectly capable of at least an overclocked 3950X.
> 
> 
> Not to mention that in general, ITX cases tend to be much more expensive than the majority of ATX cases. Cost is probably a barrier to entry for the SFF world for a good amount of people (expensive cases, expensive ITX mobos, have to spend more money on cooling).
> ...


You’re absolutely to the point on my comment. People are too direct and too swift to jump to judgmental conclusions.



las said:


> I've built numerous SFF builds and heat/noise is always the biggest problem, keeping you from using high-end parts and OC without limits, It's simply not happening in ITX. It's as simple as that. ITX Motherboards have weak VRMs and the system will be noisy if you go all-out cooling-wise, to keep temps down, or you are limited space-wise to use top-end parts (hardware AND cooling). Name ONE ITX board with good VRMs, I'm waiting.
> 
> Are you seriously trying to tell that you can built a premium (as in highest-end) ITX build and get the same noise and temps as a mATX/ATX case, for the same price?
> 
> ...


And yet somehow lots of us in sffpc community have no problem building, OCing and having low noise levels. It’s as flexible as it gets with so many options These days.


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Apr 21, 2021)

milewski1015 said:


> TPU's 11400F review has it beating the 3600 at minimum by 8.3% in 1080p gaming, 6.4% in 1440p gaming, and 2.9% in 4K gaming. GN's review had the 11400 beating the 3600 in every single game tested (1080p and 1440p). It did lose to the 3600 in the majority of productivity workloads, but if you're just looking to throw together a gaming build, you can't beat the value proposition the 11400 has to offer. Until AMD can offer a Zen3 part at the 200ish USD price point that remains available, the 11400, in my opinion, is what people looking to throw together a new strictly gaming-focused build should be shopping for.


Oh ok, fair enough


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## las (Apr 21, 2021)

Raendor said:


> You’re absolutely to the point on my comment. People are too direct and too swift to jump to judgmental conclusions.
> 
> 
> And yet somehow lots of us in sffpc community have no problem building, OCing and having low noise levels. It’s as flexible as it gets with so many options These days.



That motherboard is nowhere NEAR top-end ATX boards in terms of VRM and OC. 99% of ITX boards have weak VRMs tho.
VRMs are not the only problem - when you OC CPU/GPU in an ITX case; Heat rises ALOT. So it's pretty much pointless for most people. Unless they can tolerate an insanely loud system during load.

And no it's not. You are going to pay a huge premium if you go with high-end parts in a small ITX case. And you will NEVER get the same noiselevels, temps and clockspeeds/boostclocks than mATX/ATX.
Why do you think there's forums and youtube channels specific about ITX builds? Because if you "just build" one like you normally would do, it will suck; High noiselevels, tons of heat and throttling. This is what happends when you cramp up high wattage parts in a small case. Alot of ITX builds even use BLOWER FAN cards to get the hot air OUT OF THE CASE, sadly these are 2-3 times as loud as good custom cards, often they don't even drop to zero RPM during 2d clocks or low loads. 

SO, as I said, you will never ever be able to match a ATX build in terms of price, performance, noiselevels, temps and clockspeeds, unless you spend alot more money and really optimize your hardware, which oftens means NOT overclocking or even undervolting, which is a common topic on all those SFF forums.

Why are we even discussing this. It's LOGIC. I have built PC's for over 25 years at this point. 1000s of builds. Nothing changed. When you CRAMP high-wattage parts in a small case, it's going to be hot and loud, THE END.

ATX outsells ITX 10 to 1 for a reason. Most ITX builders DOES NOT go with high-end parts. And the people that do, are pretty much NEVER choosing the smallest ITX cases available. As I already said, some ITX cases are almost mATX size, in terms of liters and size. Obviously airflow, temps and noise will be better in these, but it's not a small build anymore.


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