# Hynix CJR vs Samsung B Die



## Verbatim (Oct 6, 2019)

I have question can a overclocked Hynix CJR die reach speed of Samsung B die for example 3200MHz CL14 or 3600MHz CL16 when XMP is enabled.

How fast is Samsung B die when XMP is enabled ?

For comparison there is Hynix CJR die 3800MHz CL16-21-21-36 @1.41v


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 6, 2019)

They are quite similar apparently, those are quite close to mine, bit higher in fact i get 52000 read 29000write 50000 copy at a similar speed.


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## Verbatim (Oct 6, 2019)

Hmm that's very interesting i was thinking that Samsung B die is faster because it costs much more.

Samsung B die ~ 140eur
Hynix CJR die ~ 90eur


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## TheLostSwede (Oct 6, 2019)

Have a look here. He only went down to CAS 15 on the B-dies though and 16 on Hynix CJR at 3800MHz. Keep in mind those tests are with a 3900X.
It seems Samsung might have a very slight edge, but as you point out, it's generally not worth the price premium.








						AMD Ryzen 3000 DDR4 Scaling – Part II – Samsung B-Die vs Micron E-Die vs Hynix CJR – English version
					

Samsung B-Die vs Micron E-Die vs Hynix CJR   One of the main changes that came with the launch of the X570 chipset, along with the launch of the third generation Ryzen processors, was the way …




					lab501.ro
				



I have my CJR's at 16-19-16-19-36, 1.36V and paid the equivalent of US$89.


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## Verbatim (Oct 6, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> I have my CJR's at 16-19-16-19-36, 1.36V and paid the equivalent of US$89.


That's very good result i think but is it 100% stable ?  DRAM Voltage seems very low.


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## TheLostSwede (Oct 6, 2019)

Verbatim said:


> That's very good result i think but is it 100% stable ?  DRAM Voltage seems very low.


Yeah, not having any problems at all.
I only got the 3600 kit, but your 3800 kit is rated to run at 3800 at 1.35V, so not sure why  you're pushing your Voltage so high.
Also, don't use XMP.


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## Verbatim (Oct 6, 2019)

I'm using Patriot Viper Steel 3600 CL17 2x8GB. Dram Calculator recomends 1.41v - 1.45v for this type of memory.


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## TheLostSwede (Oct 6, 2019)

Verbatim said:


> I'm using Patriot Viper Steel 3600 CL17 2x8GB. Dram Calculator recomends 1.41v - 1.45v for this type of memory.


Right, exactly the same kit then.

I just decided not to worry about the Voltage. Keep in mind that the settings are recommendations to get the broadest possible range of memory to run at the speeds that it spits out. It doesn't take individual IC variances into account, so it's possible that you need higher Voltage than me, but have you tried lowering it?


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## Verbatim (Oct 6, 2019)

I think at lower voltage it will crash. My current timings are 16-21-18-21-36-56-504 @1.41v.

Previously when i tested memory at 16-21-17-21-36-56-504 it crashed at 1.41v but now with optimized timings it won't crash anymore. I mean heavy testing for memory.


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## TheLostSwede (Oct 6, 2019)

Verbatim said:


> I think at lower voltage it will crash. My current timings are 16-21-18-21-36-56-504 @1.41v.
> 
> Previously when i tested memory at 16-21-17-21-36-56-504 it crashed at 1.41v but now with optimized timings it won't crash anymore. I mean heavy testing for memory.


Think...
But have you actually tried? If I have the same RAM, although admittedly different hardware for the rest of the system and can run the RAM at 0.5V lower than you, at least it's worth a try, no?
Also, try changing the ProcODT, if you haven't, mine is at 40 something. Could be the UEFI implementation from MSI as well.


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## Verbatim (Oct 6, 2019)

Oh i done a lot off ram testing just one step bellow and it chrashes becouse voltage is not enought.

ProcODT is 43.6

16-21-*18*-21-36-56-504 @1.41v. Stable
16-21-*17*-21-36-56-504 @1.41v. Unstable


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## TheLostSwede (Oct 6, 2019)

Verbatim said:


> Oh i done a lot off ram testing just one step bellow and it chrashes becouse voltage is not enought.
> 
> ProcODT is 43.6
> 
> ...


Fair enough, I guess your hope is on MSI delivering a better UEFI then.
Could potentially be the memory controller as well, but at least you're at 1900 1:1, which should be as good as it gets.



Verbatim said:


> Oh i done a lot off ram testing just one step bellow and it chrashes becouse voltage is not enought.
> 
> ProcODT is 43.6
> 
> ...


Well, look at this, B450 comparison. Looks like you're actually hitting the limit on B450, or at least you're really close. If you look at page 4, he's on similar a Voltage as you too.









						AMD Ryzen 3000 DDR4 Scaling – Part III – AMD Ryzen 5 3600X + B450 – English version
					

Ryzen 5 3600X + B450   Hello… it’s me again… yes, the RAM guy. You remember, right? Back in July, AMD released the third Ryzen generation, together with a new chipset, X570, …




					lab501.ro


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## GorbazTheDragon (Oct 8, 2019)

I would expect b-die to do better particularly on RCDs, and I think the subtimings are probably going to be a bit tighter too. I'm pretty sure any of the stuff you are running right now would beat B-die XMP, but once you work b-die down there's not really any competition. Rev. E is only really competitive at getting max frequencies, but like CJR the timings aren't going to go as low.


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## oxrufiioxo (Oct 8, 2019)

I picked up some Team T Force legend 3200 14-14-14-31 (Bdie) for my Ryzen 3900X build slightly before it launched for $114 with promo code on newegg. 

Stock Xmp sucks on the Aorus Master but they're pretty easy to tune and tighten up at 3600MTs. On an Asus Tuf x570 the same kit ran awesome with just base xmp.

To me they were more than worth the extra $20-$25 over hynix/micron kits


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## GorbazTheDragon (Oct 8, 2019)

Usually the 3200c16 sticks are around $75... So that would be closer to $45, and that's quite a cheap price for b-die.


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## Taraquin (Oct 8, 2019)

One of the major differences is that the Samsung can run tRFC a lot lower. Appart from CL, tRFC is often the most important timing for gamingperformance. How much tRFC does for the 3000-series I don`t know, but for the 1 and 2-series it could mean a lot (up to several percents) in some games. At 3600 B-die often can do around 270-300 tRFC, CJR can do 400-500 and E-die can do 500-600.


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## oxrufiioxo (Oct 8, 2019)

GorbazTheDragon said:


> Usually the 3200c16 sticks are around $75... So that would be closer to $45, and that's quite a cheap price for b-die.



I have a lesser 3200C16 kit on my 9900K system that overclocks like crap..








						CORSAIR Vengeance RGB Pro 32GB 288-Pin DDR4 3200 Desktop Memory - Newegg.com
					

Buy CORSAIR Vengeance RGB Pro 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 DRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model CMW32GX4M4C3200C16 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				



This kit specifically, I would definitely not buy them again over the Legend variant. 


Comically I felt like I was being cheap not going with a 3600 CL16 kit they were going for around 190$ at the time. I'm pretty happy I went with what I did over those kits.

Total build cost was over $3000 So in my case 50$ is pretty pointless to save.

On a 3600 and maybe even a 3700X build Some Micron E die or Hynix CJR Make a ton of sense.


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## moproblems99 (Oct 8, 2019)

My 3900x on x570 is doing 16 19 19 19 39 1.35.  not sure other timings at the moment as I have just been trying to get a stable system.  Granted the timings are what it is rated for.  Once I get cooling under control, tweaking comes next.

Edit:. This is CJR


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## TheLostSwede (Oct 8, 2019)

So far no-one has done areal apples to apples comparison though. 
We're seeing different size kits, different AGESA's, different "tweaking" and so on, so it's hard to draw any real conclusions.
Price wise I would say CJR is the way to go, but sure, if you want to squeeze every last drop of performance out of your system and have the money to burn, by all means, get a high-end B-die kit.


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## oxrufiioxo (Oct 8, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> So far no-one has done areal apples to apples comparison though.
> We're seeing different size kits, different AGESA's, different "tweaking" and so on, so it's hard to draw any real conclusions.
> Price wise I would say CJR is the way to go, but sure, if you want to squeeze every last drop of performance out of your system and have the money to burn, by all means, get a high-end B-die kit.




Those last 2-3% are always the most expensive... You got a pretty sweet kit I wish my Corsair kit did similarly.


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## TheLostSwede (Oct 8, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Those last 2-3% are always the most expensive... You got a pretty sweet kit I wish my Corsair kit did similarly.


It seems I might've gotten lucky as well, at least compared to a lot of other people running the same kit. That said, some of it seems to be UEFI and board dependent as well.
To be fair, it wasn't running like this initially, although with each major UEFI update from Gigabyte, it has improved and I'm really stoked with this kit, especially considering how little I paid for the performance I get out of it.


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## Vario (Oct 8, 2019)

Samsung B die will overclock better than Hynix CJR.  Micron/Crucial E Die is a bit closer to B-Die than CJR.

The B-Die I have can do 3400 CL14 and 4300 CL19 but that is with Intel 8600K not Ryzen.
Here's the validation for the 4300:








						Intel Core i5 8600K @ 4801.15 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

[qpyumu] Validated Dump by Vario (2018-01-19 22:05:35) - MB: ASRock Z370 Taichi - RAM: 16384 MB




					valid.x86.fr
				




Overall I would buy whatever is cheapest because its not that noticeable for the extra cost.

I likely could get even higher speeds than that, such as 3600 CL14 or over 4300 but I didn't bother doing much overclocking testing with this build.  I didn't do any substantial overvolting or fine tuning of the secondary and tertiary timings.   I haven't really done any significant benchmarking / overclocking since the first week I built it back in 2018, due to my lack of interest.

I ran Aida just now here is the ram at my daily 3200CL14.  Probably my numbers aren't too helpful for comparing for Ryzen.


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## oxrufiioxo (Oct 8, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> It seems I might've gotten lucky as well, at least compared to a lot of other people running the same kit. That said, some of it seems to be UEFI and board dependent as well.
> To be fair, it wasn't running like this initially, although with each major UEFI update from Gigabyte, it has improved and I'm really stoked with this kit, especially considering how little I paid for the performance I get out of it.




Not gonna spend a lot of time messing with sub timings at 3800 but this was a quick and dirty 1.4v 3800. I tried to make the gaming benchmarks as cpu limited as possible but likely need to swap in my 2080 ti to get a better picture on how much it matters going from 3200 to 3800... Those read/write/copy though... I think the bigger picture though is how easy with Bdie it was to get 3200/3600/3800 working didn't even need to manually set the NB clock.


3200 XMP


3200 manual timings 1.35v


3600 manual timings 1.35v


3800 16-16-16-32 auto subtimings. 1.4v


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## Vario (Oct 8, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Huh? You're talking Intel here, the OP has an AMD CPU and CJR is much better on Ryzen than Micron E-die.
> Maybe try and grasp the context of the thread before posting something that isn't quite relevant?


I am aware it is a largely Ryzen thread, stated that above.  However he does not specifically ask for Ryzen info in his original post.  My intent was to show that B die can overclock quite high above its XMP.


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## TheLostSwede (Oct 8, 2019)

Vario said:


> I am aware it is a largely Ryzen thread, stated that above.  However he does not specifically ask for Ryzen info in his original post.  My intent was to show that B die can overclock quite high above its XMP.


Which is why I removed my reply...


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## Verbatim (Oct 9, 2019)

Best result that i can get with stable overclock was DDR4-3800 CL16-19-21-32 @1.42v. So basicley it's slightly faster than Samsung B Die when XMP is enabled for DDR4-3200 CL14 kit and DDR4-3600 CL16 kit. And maybe it's on par with DDR4-3600 CL15 samsung B die kit when XMP is enbled.


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## oxrufiioxo (Oct 9, 2019)

Verbatim said:


> Best result that i can get with stable overclock was DDR4-3800 CL16-19-21-32 @1.42v. So basicley it's slightly faster than Samsung B Die when XMP is enabled for DDR4-3200 CL14 kit and DDR4-3600 CL16 kit. And maybe it's on par with DDR4-3600 CL15 samsung B die kit when XMP is enbled.




3600 CL 16 Bdie seems a little faster. I'm guessing read/copy are just slower period on 1 CCX chips didn't really pay attention to any reviews on that. I know write speeds are way slower.


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## moproblems99 (Oct 9, 2019)

Why is @Verbatim write speeds so much lower.


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## oxrufiioxo (Oct 9, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> Why is @Verbatim write speeds so much lower.



1 ccx Ryzen 3000 chips suffer from half speed writes 3600-3800X.

Part of the reason I went with a 3900X although it doesn't really show up in any benchmarks gaming or otherwise I've seen as being a limiting factor.


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## Verbatim (Oct 9, 2019)

Maybe someone with Ryzen 3600, 3700, 3800 can show numbers ? Ryzen 3900 boosts ram significantly. It's recommended to turn off PBO because that may show different result.


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## TheLostSwede (Oct 9, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> 3600 CL 16 Bdie seems a little faster. I'm guessing read/copy are just slower period on 1 CCX chips didn't really pay attention to any reviews on that. I know write speeds are way slower.
> 
> View attachment 133707


Keep in mind, he's on a B450 board and there seems to be a slight memory disadvantage on those.


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## oxrufiioxo (Oct 10, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Keep
> 
> Keep in mind, he's on a B450 board and there seems to be a slight memory disadvantage on those.




Yeah, the Benchmark in general isn't a really good representation of performance. I notice more doing CPU limited gaming benchmarks to know if what I did to my ram makes a difference or not. even with a 2080 ti in most games I've tried the gpu isn't fast enough to show a difference past 3200 14-14-14-28.  


But the bottom line of this whole thread really is CJR can be really good if you get lucky... B die just takes the luck factor out of it.


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## moproblems99 (Oct 10, 2019)

I paid $186 for for 32GB of CJR at 3600 16 19 19 19 39. B-Die was $50 more at 3200 14 16 16 16 32 I think.

EDIT: According to DRAM Calc, I can do 3800 at 16 16 21 21 32


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## TheLostSwede (Oct 10, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> I paid $186 for for 32GB of CJR at 3600 16 19 19 19 39. B-Die was $50 more at 3200 14 16 16 16 32 I think.
> 
> EDIT: According to DRAM Calc, I can do 3800 at 16 16 21 21 32


I think you'll find that should be 16-21-16-21, or maybe a bit tighter in the 21's.



oxrufiioxo said:


> Yeah, the Benchmark in general isn't a really good representation of performance. I notice more doing CPU limited gaming benchmarks to know if what I did to my ram makes a difference or not. even with a 2080 ti in most games I've tried the gpu isn't fast enough to show a difference past 3200 14-14-14-28.
> 
> 
> But the bottom line of this whole thread really is CJR can be really good if you get lucky... B die just takes the luck factor out of it.



It's not really about luck, but yes B-dies can run tighter timings, but generally costs a lot more and the question then is if you feel the extra cost is worth it or not.


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## ECC_is_best (Jun 5, 2020)

What's the best that is ECC? I've only found Kingston & Samsung ECC for Ryzen so far - and there many Samsung sticks are priced differently, but it isn't obviously why.


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## AsRock (Jun 5, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Think...
> But have you actually tried? If I have the same RAM, although admittedly different hardware for the rest of the system and can run the RAM at 0.5V lower than you, at least it's worth a try, no?
> Also, try changing the ProcODT, if you haven't, mine is at 40 something. Could be the UEFI implementation from MSI as well.



I know my Patriot Viper Steal's run hot at 3600, not figured a good way to cool them better (YET).  Maybe his are getting hot too ?.

Although what's not helping now too is summer as it's around 30-32c ambient.


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## TheLostSwede (Jun 5, 2020)

AsRock said:


> I know my Patriot Viper Steal's run hot at 3600, not figured a good way to cool them better (YET).  Maybe his are getting hot too ?.
> 
> Although what's not helping now too is summer as it's around 30-32c ambient.


Hot? Hmmm, I have had no issues at all with mine, although I haven't used the system for four months now, as it's at home and I'm not...


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## Assimilator (Jun 5, 2020)

Holy thread necromancy Batman.


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## AsRock (Jun 5, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Hot? Hmmm, I have had no issues at all with mine, although I haven't used the system for four months now, as it's at home and I'm not...



Ok little over the top, getting pretty warm (about 40c), and thought f i was gaming like 3-6hrs how hot they could of gotten.  Although i guess benchmarks are going make them warmer than gaming but all so having no way to cool them just in case i decided not to push my luck.

Should of really put my fluke temp sensor their but i would of been a pain to do. Shame my temp sensors broke for my fan controller many years ago.


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## TheLostSwede (Jun 5, 2020)

AsRock said:


> Ok little over the top, getting pretty warm (about 40c), and thought f i was gaming like 3-6hrs how hot they could of gotten.  Although i guess benchmarks are going make them warmer than gaming but all so having no way to cool them just in case i decided not to push my luck.
> 
> Should of really put my fluke temp sensor their but i would of been a pain to do. Shame my temp sensors broke for my fan controller many years ago.


Time to aim a fan that way? I have two top mounted fans as intakes, which I guess helps.


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## AsRock (Jun 5, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Time to aim a fan that way? I have two top mounted fans as intakes, which I guess helps.



Yeah would like to but not really possible with a NH-D15, thankfully i only have to sticks which gives some spacing. Was thinking od some 40x40mm fan just to make sure there's no standing air.


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## xman2007 (Jun 5, 2020)

@AsRock You do realise this was last commented in October until the new user bumped it asking about ecc ram and then you quoted @TheLostSwede from October and started having a conversation like no time had passed 



ECC_is_best said:


> What's the best that is ECC? I've only found Kingston & Samsung ECC for Ryzen so far - and there many Samsung sticks are priced differently, but it isn't obviously why.



A new thread would of been the way to go as its not really related to the op. 

Post up the links to the different ram you're looking at and maybe someone can answer your question


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## AsRock (Jun 5, 2020)

xman2007 said:


> @AsRock You do realise this was last commented in October until the new user bumped it asking about ecc ram and then you quoted @TheLostSwede from October and started having a conversation like no time had passed
> 
> 
> 
> ...



hehe i think the forum can handle it, other wise my bad.


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## Taraquin (Aug 17, 2020)

Really old tread, but did some tuning with my Micron rev E. 
3733-16-19-8-11-35@1.35V 1t 525tRFC GDM-off got me to 55200 read and 67.1ns.
3733-15-20-8-11-35@1.43V 1t 520tRFC GDM-off gave me the exact same score. 

On rev E tRCDRD must be high, but tRCDWR can go really low, which helps a bit. tRP can also be really low. 

Compared to the dram calc fast 3733 I could lower tRCDWR from 16 to 8, tRP from 16 to 11, tRAS from 36 to 35 (21 work but gives no perf increase), tRC from 58 to 55, tRFC from 545 to 525. All in all these tightenings improved fps in certain games by around 2%, aida64 by 1ns and got a bit higher read and copy.


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