# Time for a new HDD?



## repman244 (Apr 2, 2013)

So yesterday windows started to give warnings about a HDD failing. So I fire up HDTune, and check the SMART readings:







The disk is a Samsung SpinPoint F3 (1TB), there are also 265 write errors.

Despite all the errors the disk is running fine, everything on it still opens fine, other SMART data is fine as well. Is it possible the error values are false?
I got my data backed-up so I was thinking if I should just continue to run it or should I start looking for a replacement drive?


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## 95Viper (Apr 2, 2013)

Check drives connections. 
Check your device manager for any problems. 
Try a new sata cable. 
And,,  run Seatools to see what it shows. http://www.seagate.com/support/downloads/seatools/
RMA,  if needed.


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## RCoon (Apr 2, 2013)

Download Hiren's Boot CD, and run HDAT, it will check and repair all bad sectors on a HDD, but be prepared for it to take a while. Spinpoint F3's are good drives, if HDAT and Seatools will run and possibly fix em, give it a go.


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## repman244 (Apr 2, 2013)

95Viper said:


> Check drives connections.
> Check your device manager for any problems.
> Try a new sata cable.
> And,,  run Seatools to see what it shows. http://www.seagate.com/support/downloads/seatools/
> RMA,  if needed.



Connection is ok, device manager is ok. Tried the cable yesterday but the read error count still went up.

I'll give seatools a try.


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## Widjaja (Apr 2, 2013)

repman244 said:


> Connection is ok, device manager is ok. Tried the cable yesterday but the read error count still went up.
> 
> I'll give seatools a try.



Seatools (last time I used it) only lets you know if the drive is failing and if it is valid for warranty.

Also if you have not try another sata port.
But I do feel this drive has bit the dust and to get what important data you can off it while you can.

Best of luck.


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## repman244 (Apr 2, 2013)

Widjaja said:


> Seatools (last time I used it) only lets you know if the drive is failing and if it is valid for warranty.
> 
> Also if you have not try another sata port.
> But I do feel this drive has bit the dust and to get what important data you can off it while you can.
> ...



I'm still running the error scan from HDTune (it's currently around 1/3 of the drive and no errors so far).
I forgot to mention that I tried running it from my SAS controller (with a different cable), I checked the error count before using it on my controller and after...it went up. The drive is currently connected on my motherboard SATA.

To me it seems the drive doesn't have any bad sectors since no files sustained any damage, but I got no ideas what could be causing this...maybe the read/write heads are defective?


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## Widjaja (Apr 2, 2013)

repman244 said:


> I'm still running the error scan from HDTune (it's currently around 1/3 of the drive and no errors so far).
> I forgot to mention that I tried running it from my SAS controller (with a different cable), I checked the error count before using it on my controller and after...it went up. The drive is currently connected on my motherboard SATA.
> 
> To me it seems the drive doesn't have any bad sectors since no files sustained any damage, but I got no ideas what could be causing this...maybe the read/write heads are defective?



Didn't read all of your first post, I see you have a Samsung drive.
Not sure if Seatools supports other drives besides Seagate drives.

This is not a HDD error I am familiar with.
Usually relocated sector and Ultra DMA CRC error count are the most common ones I come across.

I would also be under the impression there is an issue with the heads of the hard drive.

Can be certain what caused the HDD to start failing.
I am most inclined to believe it is a hardware defect.


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## Aquinus (Apr 2, 2013)

That's not too bad for raw read error rate. If the drive really is starting to fail that number would start flying up. I have drive at work with numbers in the 100,000 and higher for raw read error rates and not all of them are duds. Just keep a backup of your stuff and keep an eye on SMART.


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## repman244 (Apr 2, 2013)

Aquinus said:


> 1 for a raw read error rate isn't bad. If the drive really is starting to fail that number would start going up. Just keep a backup of your stuff and keep an eye on SMART.



I think you didn't look at the correct values  Error count is at 33279.
The value -1- has something to do with those threshold limits.

EDIT: yes my seagate drive has like 300k of read errors, however in that case it is a "false" reading, since it relies on it's internal ECC...and the ECC value is identical to that of the read errors.


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## Aquinus (Apr 2, 2013)

repman244 said:


> I think you didn't look at the correct values  Error count is at 33279.
> The value -1- has something to do with those threshold limits.
> 
> EDIT: yes my seagate drive has like 300k of read errors, however in that case it is a "false" reading, since it relies on it's internal ECC...and the ECC value is identical to that of the read errors.



I edited my post while you were writing...



Aquinus said:


> That's not too bad for raw read error rate. If the drive really is starting to fail that number would start flying up. I have drive at work with numbers in the 100,000 and higher for raw read error rates and not all of them are duds. Just keep a backup of your stuff and keep an eye on SMART.


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## 95Viper (Apr 2, 2013)

Widjaja said:


> Seatools (last time I used it) only lets you know if the drive is failing and if it is valid for warranty.



Seatools for for DOS will, also, attempt to repair the drive, however, it will not detect external drives, so the op may need to try it in MB's port and test if he wants the test for RMA use.



Widjaja said:


> Didn't read all of your first post, I see you have a Samsung drive.
> Not sure if Seatools supports other drives besides Seagate drives.



Seatools is suppose to support Samsung drives now.


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## itsakjt (Apr 2, 2013)

Those read and write errors usually arise from faulty SATA power or signal cables. But you said you ruled out them. So it might also be the chipset(South Bridge) since it controls the accessing of the HDD and hence the HDD thinks that read and write errors are occurring. Also check the PCB of the Hard Disk for any damage. I think the disk is ok I mean mechanical part. The electronic part is at fault.

Also Seatools works on all brands of drives. And Seatools can't fix any errors except "Current Pending Sector Count". If that count is constant for a certain period, they are just logical bad sectors(due to a random error, the disk thought them as bad) and marked them. Any error for the second time will mark it reallocated.


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## repman244 (Apr 2, 2013)

itsakjt said:


> Those read and write errors usually arise from faulty SATA power or signal cables. But you said you ruled out them. So it might also be the chipset(South Bridge) since it controls the accessing of the HDD and hence the HDD thinks that read and write errors are occurring. Also check the PCB of the Hard Disk for any damage. I think the disk is ok I mean mechanical part. The electronic part is at fault.
> 
> Also Seatools works on all brands of drives. And Seatools can't fix any errors except "Current Pending Sector Count". If that count is constant for a certain period, they are just logical bad sectors(due to a random error, the disk thought them as bad) and marked them. Any error for the second time will mark it reallocated.



SB is ruled out as well since I tried it from my SAS controller with same results. PCB doesn't have any damage.


Anyway, I finished checking the disk for bad sectors...came out clean. However I found something interesting, I ran the HDTune benchmark just for fun...the sequential read came out as it should but the access time is horrible.






Looking at those access times being all over the place I assume it's the R/W head being faulty (or the controller has hard time controlling it as it should - it's inaccurate hence it's giving read errors).


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## Geekoid (Apr 2, 2013)

95Viper said:


> Seatools for for DOS will, also, attempt to repair the drive, however, it will not detect external drives, so the op may need to try it in MB's port and test if he wants the test for RMA use.
> 
> Seatools is suppose to support Samsung drives now.



... because the Spinpoint F3 drives are now made my Seagate (and personally I stay away from them now). 

Still, always good to make sure you have a backup of essential data!


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## itsakjt (Apr 2, 2013)

repman244 said:


> SB is ruled out as well since I tried it from my SAS controller with same results. PCB doesn't have any damage.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I finished checking the disk for bad sectors...came out clean. However I found something interesting, I ran the HDTune benchmark just for fun...the sequential read came out as it should but the access time is horrible.
> ...



I suggest you take a backup of all the data and RMA the drive. 
Or if you wanna DIY, get a similar PCB and check results.


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 2, 2013)

this thread made me use HD Tune to check the health of my hard drives too - one of my hard drives is throwing up warnings but ive run a full scan with windows and clicked on scan & attempt recovery of bad sectors and the full scan came up clean. nothing was wrong with the drive.


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## repman244 (Apr 2, 2013)

FreedomEclipse said:


> this thread made me use HD Tune to check the health of my hard drives too - one of my hard drives is throwing up warnings but ive run a full scan with windows and clicked on scan & attempt recovery of bad sectors and the full scan came up clean. nothing was wrong with the drive.



Yeah sometimes it's false reading - but only if performance is as it should be. 
The Windows warnings and weird performance (~25ms) means I'll be getting a new HDD to play with


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## Widjaja (Apr 2, 2013)

repman244 said:


> Yeah sometimes it's false reading - but only if performance is as it should be.
> The Windows warnings and weird performance (~25ms) means I'll be getting a new HDD to play with



Sure gives you an excuse to spend some cash on your PC and get a much bigger, faster hard drive


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 2, 2013)

Widjaja said:


> Sure gives you an excuse to spend some cash on your PC and get a much bigger, faster hard drive



Im thinking about this too... literally 2 of the drives i currently running are rather noisy and one has developed a nasty vibration that resonates with the case - a really low pulsating humming sound which comes and goes randomly.

apart from the hard drive i use to store all my games on the others dont need to be that high performance so ive been looking at some 2 or 3TB WD green series drives but Im hearing some rather worrying talk about parking.

However Hitachi are offering 2-3year warranties with their hard drives. which is great but the only issue with that is I havent seen that many reviews when it comes to their drives and i dont want to buy one and lose all my data a week after purchase


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## repman244 (Apr 2, 2013)

FreedomEclipse said:


> However Hitachi are offering 2-3year warranties with their hard drives. which is great but the only issue with that is I havent seen that many reviews when it comes to their drives and i dont want to buy one and lose all my data a week after purchase



Just a small warning about Hitachi if you don't know yet...Hitachi's storage division was bought by WD, but it's 3,5' disks are now under Toshiba (DT01ACA100 1TB, DT01ACA200 2TB etc. are all Hitachi's drives under Toshiba's name).

I've been looking at the Seagate 7200.14 2TB (ST2000DM001), good price, great performance but not the best warranty tho.


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## Widjaja (Apr 2, 2013)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Im thinking about this too... literally 2 of the drives i currently running are rather noisy and one has developed a nasty vibration that resonates with the case - a really low pulsating humming sound which comes and goes randomly.
> 
> apart from the hard drive i use to store all my games on the others dont need to be that high performance so ive been looking at some 2 or 3TB WD green series drives but Im hearing some rather worrying talk about parking.



My WD Green 2TB which I have had for a couple of years I think, has not given me any issues so far.
My WD Green is a Sata 2 version of the WD20EARS.
So not sure if the head park issue maybe related to the Sata 3 version.
I think there is a difference in platter count as well between the two as well.


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 3, 2013)

when it comes to seagate - I worry about the overall reliability. too many times have i head drives arriving DOA or developing the click of death immediately or not long after installation


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## lZKoce (Apr 3, 2013)

Seagate has renamed their HDD series, and I find it a little bit hard at first to understand what they mean, BUT they have an offering that is hard to pass by. Their Hybrid drive: Desktop SSHD, 8GB of flash memoery, 64mb cash and 1 or 2 TB mechanical space (for dekstop this is). It costs very little over a regular mechanical drive, but it offers much better performance. So, I'd say go for Seagate Hybrid drive. They also push the 4096 byte sectors pretty hard, so they act like innovators pretty much. Western Digital hasn't done much in the field, as far as I know. I do use on my laptop a WD scorpio Black and I am more than happy, I have a Seagate on my desktop. It failed after 3 months of use, but after the replacement- it has been working for 4 years with no hick up.


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## repman244 (Apr 3, 2013)

FreedomEclipse said:


> when it comes to seagate - I worry about the overall reliability. too many times have i head drives arriving DOA or developing the click of death immediately or not long after installation



Bad luck I guess, mine are still going with no issues - hoping they continue to do so.



lZKoce said:


> Seagate has renamed their HDD series, and I find it a little bit hard at first to understand what they mean, BUT they have an offering that is hard to pass by. Their Hybrid drive: Desktop SSHD, 8GB of flash memoery, 64mb cash and 1 or 2 TB mechanical space (for dekstop this is). It costs very little over a regular mechanical drive, but it offers much better performance. So, I'd say go for Seagate Hybrid drive. They also push the 4096 byte sectors pretty hard, so they act like innovators pretty much. Western Digital hasn't done much in the field, as far as I know. I do use on my laptop a WD scorpio Black and I am more than happy, I have a Seagate on my desktop. It failed after 3 months of use, but after the replacement- it has been working for 4 years with no hick up.



The hybrid is really nice yes, but I won't benefit from it if I use it as a storage drive, I ordered the ST2000DM001.


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## OverClocker12 (Apr 9, 2013)

I never had a hard drive failure yet. Usually the mb or cpu gives out first. At least you got to back your files already.


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## Aquinus (Apr 10, 2013)

OverClocker12 said:


> I never had a hard drive failure yet. Usually the mb or cpu gives out first. At least you got to back your files already.



Really? This is my last HDD failure.
WD Hard Drive - Bad motor - YouTube

Clearly an animal or something got stuck in there. 
Believe it or not, it did start to spin up normally again but a long SMART test gave me a particular LBA that it was failing on so I sent it back with a print out of the SMART failure. Got the drive back in 6 business days from the day I sent it out.


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## repman244 (Apr 10, 2013)

Aquinus said:


> Really? This is my last HDD failure.
> WD Hard Drive - Bad motor - YouTube
> 
> Clearly an animal or something got stuck in there.
> Believe it or not, it did start to spin up normally again but a long SMART test gave me a particular LBA that it was failing on so I sent it back with a print out of the SMART failure. Got the drive back in 6 business days from the day I sent it out.



That sound was hilarious 

Anyway, I bought the Seagate drive I was talking about - it's working superb.

I plugged the Samsung drive back to my controller a few days ago and ran benchmarks again - with same results.
Today I was checking the Seagate for SMART errors again and ran the benchmark on the Samsung again with this result:






WTF is going on here, the seeks are almost normal now (a few spikes here and there but nothing close as it previously was), compared to the last benchmark run:


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## silkstone (Apr 10, 2013)

RCoon said:


> Download Hiren's Boot CD, and run HDAT, it will check and repair all bad sectors on a HDD, but be prepared for it to take a while. Spinpoint F3's are good drives, if HDAT and Seatools will run and possibly fix em, give it a go.



Good advice. HDAT didn;t work for me though, I used Vivard and HDD regenerator to fix my bad sectors. I had a bunch and the drive was totally dead.

Since fixing it, i have been using it for about 3 or 4 months with no problems.


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## repman244 (Apr 12, 2013)

Ok so after a few days of waiting if the drive will totally fail....the drive decided to work normal 

There are no new read errors and the performance is back as it was when I first bought it.
I'm really clueless of what was going on, I'm 100% sure it wasn't the cable since I'm running the new drive plugged into it with no issues.
It's not the southbridge either because I was still getting read errors when I plugged the drive on my controller :shadedshu


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