# Sapphire Radeon RX 5600 XT Pulse



## W1zzard (Jan 21, 2020)

Sapphire's RX 5600 XT Pulse comes at $289, which is only a small $10 premium over the AMD MSRP, yet it's faster than the GeForce RTX 2060. The card's cooler does a great job and delivers good temperatures paired with amazing noise levels, and it has fan-stop, too.

*Show full review*


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## Durvelle27 (Jan 21, 2020)

Like i said. Better than the 2060


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## nguyen (Jan 21, 2020)

Funny, couple months ago I made comments about a lot of 5700 owners would flash their cards to 5700XT and a bunch of forum users claimed most PC gamer don't overclock nor flashing bioses. Now AMD publicly make it a requirement to get that extra 10% perf outta your 5600XT lol.


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## 64K (Jan 21, 2020)

Looks to me to be on average about the same performance as the RTX 2060 but the 2060 is $10 more. Perhaps Nvidia needs to shave off a few more dollars from the 2060.


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## gridracedriver (Jan 21, 2020)

high quality build quality! unlike EVGA's 2060 KO


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## jabbadap (Jan 21, 2020)

Yeah it's a good card for sure. My only gripe is that silly memory shuffle, what an earth were they thinking with that.


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## birdie (Jan 21, 2020)

I'm on the fence with this Navi.

On the one hand they have finally matched the power efficiency of NVIDIA GPUs which utilize ... a much worse node. Still it's a great achievement considering AMD's recent financial woes.

On the other hand the launch of Ampere is looming and also RDNA 2.0 (with _hardware_ ray tracing) mustn't be too far off which makes purchasing this GPU a little bit complicated.

I'm gonna wait out until both RDNA2.0 and Ampere are here and keep my GTX 1060 6GB which still runs most games at 1080p admirably.

For first time purchasers the RX 5600 XT is a card to go. Fast, power efficient, quiet, not very expensive, allows to game even at 1440p.


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## Kissamies (Jan 21, 2020)

A great 300USD card for a long time.


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## dirtyferret (Jan 21, 2020)

nice card, more competition helps bring prices down for the consumer


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## Sithaer (Jan 21, 2020)

Good stuff,better than I expected.
Now all is left to see the real pricing in my country and then save up as long as my workplace doesn't foq me over meanwhile.

If all goes well then this 5600xt will be the replacement of my RX 570 for the next ~3 years.


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## $ReaPeR$ (Jan 21, 2020)

oh boi  this really explains the rushed existence of the KO. both overpriced. cards like this and the 2060 shouldn't be more than 250$


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## rvalencia (Jan 21, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Funny, couple months ago I made comments about a lot of 5700 owners would flash their cards to 5700XT and a bunch of forum users claimed most PC gamer don't overclock nor flashing bioses. Now AMD publicly make it a requirement to get that extra 10% perf outta your 5600XT lol.


Remember 7950 BE BIOS update.


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## kings (Jan 21, 2020)

It´s basically an RTX 2060 from AMD... equivalent performance, equivalent price and equivalent power consumption.


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## Xaled (Jan 21, 2020)

$ReaPeR$ said:


> oh boi  this really explains the rushed existence of the KO. both overpriced. cards like this and the 2060 shouldn't be more than 250$


It is officially KOed now!


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## chaosmassive (Jan 21, 2020)

I hate when company create segmentation by simply gimping/adding memory bandwidth with nothing else changed. Such a cheap and low effort.

maybe its just me though, pls dont bury me


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## gridracedriver (Jan 21, 2020)

I would have seen well also the sale of a 5600 at $ 250 with low clocks or 16DCU


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## Xaled (Jan 21, 2020)

kings said:


> It´s basically an RTX 2060 from AMD... equivalent performance, equivalent price and equivalent power consumption.


The cheapest rtx 2060 which is newly released Evga KO is selling at 320 at newegg


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## bug (Jan 21, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> Like i said. Better than the 2060


3-4% faster and no RT. Funny definition of "better" you have there.

The cards are basically interchangeable, only you could have bought the 2060 a year ago.


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## $ReaPeR$ (Jan 21, 2020)

chaosmassive said:


> I hate when company create segmentation by simply gimping/adding memory bandwidth with nothing else changed. Such a cheap and low effort.
> 
> maybe its just me though, pls dont bury me


segmentation is a necessity tbh, but this level of segmentation.. yeah.. it is ridiculous but its also useful to companies because they can get rid of partially defective silicon.


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## Kissamies (Jan 21, 2020)

bug said:


> 3-4% faster and no RT. Funny definition of "better" you have there.
> 
> The cards are basically interchangeable, only you could have bought the 2060 a year ago.


RT on 2060 is pretty useless.


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## jesdals (Jan 21, 2020)

Well is 10-20% cheaper than GTX 2060 super in denmark, but only 5-10% cheaper than the RX 5700, might be a hard sale - but funny fact its already on sale with 5-10% discount


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## Assimilator (Jan 21, 2020)

Any moron could've anticipated that NVIDIA would cut RTX 2060 prices to hamstring 5600 XT.... except, apparently, the morons in charge of RTG. They aren't willing to drop their price to compete, so the only option is a new VBIOS to increase performance.

Except, in a second colossal blunder, they decided to launch the 5600 XT at the beginning of Chinese New Year... in other words, when everyone at AIB companies who could be flashing those new BIOSes onto the cards, is on holiday. RTG can't afford to have 5600 XT stock sitting in warehouses until CNY is over, so they decide to ship the cards anyway and pass the burden of BIOS updates down to consumers.

Which actually means they've passed that burden down to their AIBs, because it's the AIBs who will have to deal with the RMAs from BIOS flashes gone wrong, and the returns from people who don't receive the performance they expected and aren't able or willing to do a BIOS flash. Imagine how thrilled the AIBs are at this prospect.

The AIBs are also likely to be thrilled that they designed and built 5600 XT boards with coolers for the original TDP, that now have to deal with the increased TDP of the new VBIOS. Now their cards' temperature and noise readings will be worse compared to the competition.

All in all, a giant clusterf**k of a way for RTG to kick off 2020. They've managed to piss of AIBs, they're going to piss off consumers, and meanwhile NVIDIA is sitting in the corner on a pile of TU104 dies earmarked for RTX 2060s and laughing.



$ReaPeR$ said:


> cards like this and the 2060 shouldn't be more than 250$



According to who? You and every other armchair "expert" who thinks they should be entitled to set GPU prices because reasons?


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## Durvelle27 (Jan 21, 2020)

bug said:


> 3-4% faster and no RT. Funny definition of "better" you have there.
> 
> The cards are basically interchangeable, only you could have bought the 2060 a year ago.


Good luck using RT on the 2060 on decent settings


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## bug (Jan 21, 2020)

Chloe Price said:


> RT on 2060 is pretty useless.


It's not the best, but it's enough to get a feel of the tech.


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## $ReaPeR$ (Jan 21, 2020)

jesdals said:


> Well is 10-20% cheaper than GTX 2060 super in denmark, but only 5-10% cheaper than the RX 5700, might be a hard sale - but funny fact its already on sale with 5-10% discount


at which site?


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## 64K (Jan 21, 2020)

Xaled said:


> The cheapest rtx 2060 which is newly released Evga KO is selling at 320 at newegg



You can get an EVGA 260 KO at Microcenter for $300 if you live near one or $310 at Amazon.



			https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083GH7LXW?ascsubtag=s15741871268966ef9a52439&tag=52439_iceleadscom-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1


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## Sithaer (Jan 21, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> Good luck using RT on the 2060 on decent settings



Pretty much.
RT with a 2060 is just not a selling point to me with 2560x1080 res.
Yea I rather not pay for a techdemo level kind of thing and stuff like Quake 2 RTX fooling around.


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## Xaled (Jan 21, 2020)

bug said:


> 3-4% faster and no RT. Funny definition of "better" you have there.
> 
> The cards are basically interchangeable, only you could have bought the 2060 a year ago.


Yeah it is pointless to pay 320$ for a card that was 350$ a year ago



64K said:


> You can get an EVGA 260 KO at Microcenter for $300 if you live near one or $310 at Amazon.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083GH7LXW?ascsubtag=s15741871268966ef9a52439&tag=52439_iceleadscom-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1


Funny, I changed the language in Amazon and it went from 320 to 310$


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## $ReaPeR$ (Jan 21, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> According to who? You and every other armchair "expert" who thinks they should be entitled to set GPU prices because reasons?


you are right. instead, we should listen to you and every other armchair "expert" who think they should be entitled to set gpu prices because reasons. 
btw, the fact that you, a consumer, argue against cheaper gpu prices... boggles the mind.


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## jesdals (Jan 21, 2020)

$ReaPeR$ said:


> at which site?


Proshop


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## Jinxed (Jan 21, 2020)

radeon 5600xt:


> Actual 3D performance gained from overclocking is 2.1%.



geforce rtx2060:


> Actual 3D performance gained from overclocking is 7.8%.



so once again, AMD went to the very limit of the chip, just to be even remotely competitive. this was definitely not a planned action on AMD's side. it also means that the real cards from retailers are going to be boosting much less, resulting in less performance. all this on the "uber" 7nm process, competing with an architecture on 12nm that's soon going to be 2 years old. poor navi


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## Kissamies (Jan 21, 2020)

The overclocking is limited by software so it wouldn't cannibalize RX 5700.


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## Jinxed (Jan 21, 2020)

Chloe Price said:


> The overclocking is limited by software so it wouldn't cannibalize RX 5700.


suuuuuure ..


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## Kissamies (Jan 21, 2020)

Jinxed said:


> suuuuuure ..


Did you even read the review?



> I suspect the chips could go even higher, but for some reason, AMD chooses to artificially limit overclocking potential of their cards. GPU overclocking also maxxed out the slider range, it seems that the overclocking limits were not extended with the new BIOS.


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## Sithaer (Jan 21, 2020)

Not everyone cares about OC-ing either,I only use my Hardware at stock/out of box settings so thats all that matters to me. _'I'm forced to undervolt my RX 570 so thats a diff story'_


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## 64K (Jan 21, 2020)

Jinxed said:


> radeon 5600xt:
> 
> 
> geforce rtx2060:
> ...



Damn! That is pitiful overclocking. I missed that earlier. Good point.


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## Jinxed (Jan 21, 2020)

Chloe Price said:


> Did you even read the review?


so why do you think the overclocking limits were not extended with the bios update? because there is no more oc potential. look at all the reviews of rx5700 and rx5700xt here. all but the most exclusive bins are just 2-3% max oc potential.

so, with your logic, if 5600xt is artificially limited to not canibalize on 5700, then 5700 is artificially limited not to canibalize on 5700xt, and the 5700xt is artificially limited not to canibalize on .. oh wait 

or are you saying AMD does not want to canibalize the sales of rtx 2070/2070 super?


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## Kissamies (Jan 21, 2020)

Jinxed said:


> so why do you think the overclocking limits were not extended with the bios update? because there is no more oc potential. look at all the reviews of rx5700 and rx5700xt here. all but the most exclusive bins are just 2-3% max oc potential.
> 
> so, with your logic, if 5600xt is artificially limited to not canibalize on 5700, then 5700 is artificially limited not to canibalize on 5700xt, and the 5700xt is artificially limited not to canibalize on .. oh wait
> 
> or are you saying AMD does not want to canibalize the sales of rtx 2070/2070 super?


I can't understand what the hell you're trying to say?

But what a coincidence that all the cards OC to the max allowed without problems


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## Assimilator (Jan 21, 2020)

$ReaPeR$ said:


> you are right. instead, we should listen to you and every other armchair "expert" who think they should be entitled to set gpu prices because reasons.
> btw, the fact that you, a consumer, argue against cheaper gpu prices... boggles the mind.



Please show me where I'm arguing against higher prices. I'll wait.


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## Jinxed (Jan 21, 2020)

Chloe Price said:


> I can't understand what the hell you're trying to say?
> 
> But what a coincidence that all the cards OC to the max allowed without problems


are they? and i assume you're talking about review samples?


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## W1zzard (Jan 21, 2020)

Jinxed said:


> because there is no more oc potential


there is definitely more than what the slider allows. whether that is 10 mhz or 100 mhz i don't know, but it's not cool to limit people like that


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## bug (Jan 21, 2020)

W1zzard said:


> there is definitely more than what the slider allows. whether that is 10 mhz or 100 mhz i don't know, but it's not cool to limit people like that


The slider was put in place before the new BIOS, so it may have looked like it offered plenty of legroom at the time.
It's AMD after all, you want drivers, come back in 6 months or so


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## Jinxed (Jan 21, 2020)

W1zzard said:


> there is definitely more than what the slider allows. whether that is 10 mhz or 100 mhz i don't know, but it's not cool to limit people like that


if there's more headroom, why is this the same tiny one for pretty much all the recent radeons? going through your reviews, the oc for radeons is by a quick check ~3% throughout their stack, while nvidia is more like 7-8% or even more?


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## W1zzard (Jan 21, 2020)

bug said:


> so it may have looked like it offered plenty of legroom at the time.


With the old BIOS (which has lower voltage), the stability limit was roughly where the OC cards are running now by default, that's why voltage has been bumped by +0.1V


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## Sir Alex Ice (Jan 21, 2020)

RTX2060 was launched a year or so ago, right? AMD is barely matching nvidia's product from a year ago.
They're a bit late to the party.


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## Xaled (Jan 21, 2020)

Jinxed said:


> radeon 5600xt:
> 
> 
> geforce rtx2060:
> ...


Poor 2060 owner, you must be feeling bad now.
I feel great because I were almost buying a 2060, now I'll wait a little more and get a 2070 or even 2070s as their prices would decrease in the end no matter what


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## Nihilus (Jan 21, 2020)

Well if Nvidia gets more RTX 2060 cards out for $300 or less, the new 5600xt will be a tough sell.

-Better o/c with the 2060 now that AMD blew their load on the factory oc

-more features like DLSS along with CUDA which my video software happens to use

-6 GB of Nvidia vram = 8 GB of AMD vram
ok, exaggerating just a little, but nvidia still has the better memory compression.  Could be useful for ultra textures down the road.


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## bobalazs (Jan 21, 2020)

I'm sorry but i don't care about price wars when in the end, the shops in my nations decide the end price, and they are usually 25% higher than MSRP+ VAT (a measly 27%) LMAO


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## cucker tarlson (Jan 21, 2020)

rtx 2060 gaming 109.3/96=1.14x stock 2060








						Palit GeForce RTX 2060 Gaming Pro OC 6 GB Review
					

Palit's GeForce RTX 2060 Gaming Pro OC is the most affordable custom design RTX 2060 we've reviewed so far, yet it comes with the best cooler, reaching temperatures of only 68°C under load. Unfortunately, idle-fan-stop is missing, but the card makes up for it with extremely quiet idle noise levels.




					www.techpowerup.com
				




5600xt pulse 102,1/98=1.04x of stock 2060








						Sapphire Radeon RX 5600 XT Pulse Review
					

Sapphire's RX 5600 XT Pulse comes at $289, which is only a small $10 premium over the AMD MSRP, yet it's faster than the GeForce RTX 2060. The card's cooler does a great job and delivers good temperatures paired with amazing noise levels, and it has fan-stop, too.




					www.techpowerup.com
				




oc vs oc 2060 is still 9.6% faster,at $10 more

5600xt is a much better buy than 1660 super,definitely worth $60 bucks for +20% performance


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## bug (Jan 21, 2020)

bobalazs said:


> I'm sorry but i don't care about price wars when in the end, the shops in my nations decide the end price, and they are usually 25% higher than MSRP+ VAT (a measly 27%) LMAO


As long as you factor MSRP into your formula, I think you should care.


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## jabbadap (Jan 21, 2020)

Jinxed said:


> if there's more headroom, why is this the same tiny one for pretty much all the recent radeons? going through your reviews, the oc for radeons is by a quick check ~3% throughout their stack, while nvidia is more like 7-8% or even more?



Voltage is limited in sake of that great efficiency. The same goes with RX 5700. But look at RX 5700 xt, 1.2V and 200MHz more clocks than this. Heck you can't even OC this as high, what the clocks for RX5700xt are at stock.


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## Vayra86 (Jan 21, 2020)

This looks very good indeed. At the expense of temps that are still in control (83C is the same peak we see on Nvidia pretty much) and noise unde control... a lot of performance.

Well played, Sapphire & AMD. This is a good OC under warranty, why complain  No you can't OC it yourself, but this one is guaranteed.



birdie said:


> For some reasons AMD fans have colonized all the forums and online discussions on the Internet but they don't rush to buy the products of their favourite company. I've never understood that.



Its the same idea as reading on negativity on comment sections and forums. Its no fun saying all is well, complaints are always more vocal than the large percentage that doesn't care what camp they buy from and is just happy gaming.

And yeah. Time to market really is AMD's problem now and also has been since Kepler really. Nvidia has had much stronger launches ever since they revamped their stock cooler to something that looks the part. They call it NVTTM for a reason. And of course the quick follow up from AIBs.


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## birdie (Jan 21, 2020)

Nihilus said:


> Well if Nvidia gets more RTX 2060 cards out for $300 or less, the new 5600xt will be a tough sell.
> 
> -Better o/c with the 2060 now that AMD blew their load on the factory oc
> 
> ...



The RX 5600 XT will be a tough sell because the RTX 2060 has been available for over a year already and everyone who needed that kind of performance has likely long upgraded. The second reason it that RTG cards are still nowhere to be seen in Steam HW Survey which is the best known representation of the graphics market. AMD really needs to compete - not offer comparable products long after the competition has started selling them.

For some reasons AMD fans have colonized all the forums and online discussions on the Internet but they don't rush to buy the products of their favourite company. I've never understood that.


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## bobalazs (Jan 21, 2020)

bug said:


> As long as you factor MSRP into your formula, I think you should care.


As i said in the end it doesn't really matter, 'cause prices aren't set internationally. A recommended price is easily ignored here.


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## HD64G (Jan 21, 2020)

This Pulse iteration of RX5600XT having a great cooler and efficiency while winning over 2060 in both performance and price is a KO against nVidia. And as many have posted weeks ago, this GPU would replace Vega GPUs. And it did so indeed. With the old BIOS it matches Vega56 and with the new one it does so with Vega64.


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## Mats (Jan 21, 2020)

birdie said:


> I'm on the fence with this Navi.
> 
> On the one hand they have finally matched the power efficiency of NVIDIA GPUs which utilize ... *a much worse node.* Still it's a great achievement considering AMD's recent financial woes.


AMD's own comments on the APU development gives us clues about overall GPU improvements and efficencies, and it wouldn't surprise me if that has been carried over to their graphics cards as well.
The difference between the 12 nm Ryzen 3000H/U APU's and the upcoming 7 nm Ryzen 4000H/U is that* the latter has fewer CU's, down to 8 from 11, but it's still 15 % faster*, and both are still VEGA architecture.

*"..each Vega CU in 3rd Gen Mobile is 59% faster than 2nd Gen .."*

"When we put Vega into a mobile form factor with Ryzen 4000, we learned a lot about power optimization. 7nm was a part of it sure, but it was also a very power optimized design of that architecture. The really good thing about that is that what we learned is all applicable to Navi as well. David’s team put a huge focus on performance per watt, and that really comes out of the mobile form factor, and so I’m pleased with what they are doing. You will see a lot of that technology will also impact when you see Navi in a mobile form factor as well. *"









						This is why Ryzen 4000 Renoir APUs can offer 59% higher performance per CU despite still being on Vega
					

The AMD Ryzen 4000 Renoir APUs have a reduced number of compute units (CUs) compared to Raven Ridge, but improvements to the architecture means that they can offer higher clocks and a 59% higher performance per CU. AMD plans to eventually transition these improvements into upcoming Navi...




					www.notebookcheck.net
				



*
We all knew that AMD GPU's needs higher efficency, ant I think we're starting to see the improvements now.


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## notb (Jan 21, 2020)

Chloe Price said:


> RT on 2060 is pretty useless.


Except it's OK on 1080p if you can mentally accept settings other than the highest possible.


Xaled said:


> The cheapest rtx 2060 which is newly released Evga KO is selling at 320 at newegg


Why don't we just wait and see how much 5600XT costs after launch. 

ASUS is $335. What if other top models (MSI Gaming X, Nitro etc) are around that mark? Is their pricing official yet?
2060 will cost just as much after latest price change. It uses less power. And it provides RTRT - which some will like and some won't (but it's there and it's almost free compared to 5600XT).


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## Durvelle27 (Jan 21, 2020)

notb said:


> Except it's OK on 1080p if you can mentally accept settings other than the highest possible.
> 
> Why don't we just wait and see how much 5600XT costs after launch.
> 
> ...


Who buys a GPU just to use the lowest setting. That's broken logic

Its like buying a 4K display and playing on the lowest settings by than you lost the benefit of it in the first place. 

If you are going to RT at low you might as well leave it off as you won't see any difference


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## Jinxed (Jan 21, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> Who buys a GPU just to use the lowest setting. That's broken logic
> 
> Its like buying a 4K display and playing on the lowest settings by than you lost the benefit of it in the first place.
> 
> If you are going to RT at low you might as well leave it off as you won't see any difference


typical AMD fan. did he say lowest setting? no. he said not the highest, which actually means pretty much everything on highest and set raytracing to low or medium. the output still looks much better than without raytracing.


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## sutyi (Jan 21, 2020)

Jinxed said:


> typical AMD fan. did he say lowest setting? no. he said not the highest, which actually means pretty much everything on highest and set raytracing to low or medium. the output still looks much better than without raytracing.





notb said:


> Except it's OK on 1080p if you can mentally accept settings other than the highest possible.
> 
> Why don't we just wait and see how much 5600XT costs after launch.
> 
> ...



Hungarian pricing euroland with 27% VAT

Sapphire PULSE RX 5600XT - 103370HUF ~ 309EUR

Cheapest RTX 2060 6GB model, that aint a one fan crapshoot:

Palit GeForce RTX 2060 GamingPro 6GB - 115990HUF ~ 347EUR

EVGA RTX 2060 KO edition is more like MIA here in Hungary.


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## Durvelle27 (Jan 21, 2020)

Jinxed said:


> typical AMD fan. did he say lowest setting? no. he said not the highest, which actually means pretty much everything on highest and set raytracing to low or medium. the output still looks much better than without raytracing.


AMD fan yes who owns a RTX 2070 ok

Obviously like i said if you are going to use RT using it at the lowest setting serves no benefit and you're better off without.


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## Xaled (Jan 21, 2020)

notb said:


> Except it's OK on 1080p if you can mentally accept settings other than the highest possible.
> 
> Why don't we just wait and see how much 5600XT costs after launch.
> 
> ...



Why don't you mention 2060s "top models".
Same Asus of 2060 is selling at 390$ so it is 55 cheaper. Asus cards are always overpriced, they claim they offer top quality components and they have 3 years warranty


Durvelle27 said:


> AMD fan yes who owns a RTX 2070 ok
> 
> Obviously like i said if you are going to use RT using it at the lowest setting serves no benefit and you're better off without.


No, Nvidia just wants you to smell it. If you want to eat it you have to buy the 2080ti


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## Jinxed (Jan 21, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> AMD fan yes who owns a RTX 2070 ok
> 
> Obviously like i said if you are going to use RT using it at the lowest setting serves no benefit and you're better off without.


yet your own profile hw info here shows a 5700xt (ASRock RX 5700 XT Challenger OC )  you sir know nothing about real-time raytracing.


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## Durvelle27 (Jan 21, 2020)

Jinxed said:


> yet your own profile hw info here shows a 5700xt  you sir know nothing about real-time raytracing.


Yes I've had RX 5700, RX 5700 XT, and RTX 2070 Ultra

So yes I've had experience with RT


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## Jinxed (Jan 21, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> Yes I've had RX 5700, RX 5700 XT, and RTX 2070 Ultra


you mean rtx 2070 "super", no? 


Durvelle27 said:


> So yes I've had experience with RT


no, i don't think so.


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## Durvelle27 (Jan 21, 2020)

Jinxed said:


> you mean rtx 2070 "super", no?
> 
> no, i don't think so.


Ok buddy I'm not going to drag this out


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## John Naylor (Jan 21, 2020)

Xaled said:


> Stop making idiot comparisons, gaming z is one of the most expensive models. It is 90$ more expensive





sutyi said:


> You are comparing a 360USD SKU to a 290USD SKU.



Pick anyone ya want and see if you can do better.

Let's see who the idiot is  ... The 5600 XT even loses  to the nVidia FE.    Pick anyone 2060 ya want and see if you can do better.

Performance:  NVidia FE is 5+% faster the 5600 XT AIB card
Power:  Same Power Draw
Noise:  Same Noise Level
Temps:  Nvidia FE is cooler

Basic 1080p box w/ Pulse = $1200
Basic 1080p box w/ Gaming Z = $1290 ..... 7.5% ($1290 / 1200) more expensive

Performance = (112.23% / 102.09) = 109.9%

What to you call spending 7,5 % more money to get a 9.99% increase in performance ? .... a)  sound investment....b) no brainer.


* Card*​* 1080 Perf.*​* OC*​* OC'd Perf.*​* Power*​* Temp.*​* Noise*​​​​​​​​5600 XT Pulse​100.00%​2.09%​* 102.09%*​164​74​32​Reference 2060​98.00%​​​​​​​​​​​​​2060 Gaming Z​100.00%​12.23%​112.23%​187​68​31​Reference 2060​97.00%​​​​​​​​​​​​​2060 FE​98%​9.45%​* 107.26%*​164​73​32​


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## Xuper (Jan 21, 2020)

Asus and MSI are quite much better.the only cards with sub 60 degree GPU.also VRM = 55'c and 48'c for MSI


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## sutyi (Jan 21, 2020)

John Naylor said:


> 2060 Gaming Z



You are comparing a 360USD SKU to a 290USD SKU.


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## Xaled (Jan 21, 2020)

John Naylor said:


> How so ?  TPU data charted below
> 
> 
> 
> * Card*​* 1080 Perf.*​* OC*​* OC'd Perf.*​* Power*​* Temp.*​* Noise*​​​​​​​​5600 XT Pulse​100.00%​2.09%​102.09%​164​74​32​Reference 2060​98.00%​​​​​​​​​​​​​2060 Gaming Z​100.00%​12.23%​112.23%​187​68​31​Reference 2060​97.00%​​​​​​



Stop making idiot comparisons, gaming z is one of the most expensive models. It is 90$ more expensive


----------



## nguyen (Jan 21, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> Who buys a GPU just to use the lowest setting. That's broken logic
> 
> Its like buying a 4K display and playing on the lowest settings by than you lost the benefit of it in the first place.
> 
> If you are going to RT at low you might as well leave it off as you won't see any difference



RT reflections and RT transparent reflections in Control and Deliver Us The Moon make those games more immersive than any other settings...


----------



## John Naylor (Jan 21, 2020)

Xaled said:


> Stop making idiot comparisons, gaming z is one of the most expensive models. It is 90$ more expensive





sutyi said:


> You are comparing a 360USD SKU to a 290USD SKU.



Pick anyone ya want and see if you can do better.

Let's see who the idiot is  ... The 5600 XT loses to the nVidia FE.    Pick anyone ya want and see if you can do better.



* Card*​* 1080 Perf.*​* OC*​* OC'd Perf.*​* Power*​* Temp.*​* Noise*​​​​​​​​5600 XT Pulse​100.00%​2.09%​* 102.09%*​164​74​32​Reference 2060​98.00%​​​​​​​​​​​​​2060 Gaming Z​100.00%​12.23%​112.23%​187​68​31​Reference 2060​97.00%​​​​​​​​​​​​​2060 FE​98%​9.45%​* 107.26%*​164​73​32​


----------



## Mats (Jan 21, 2020)

Xuper said:


> Asus and MSI are quite much better.the only cards with sub 60 degree GPU.also VRM = 55'c and 48'c for MSI


Well the Asus is also more expensive, you might as well get a 5700 for the same money.


----------



## Sithaer (Jan 21, 2020)

sutyi said:


> Hungarian pricing euroland with 27% VAT
> 
> Sapphire PULSE RX 5600XT - 103370HUF ~ 309EUR
> 
> ...



Yup.
I would rather buy the cheaper and at least decent Sapphire 5600 XT than the crappiest single fan 2060. _'not even sure about that Palit myself so its even more $'_
And like you said EVGA is nope around here.

+Top of that I have a freesync monitor and the last time I've borrowed a 1660S it did not work perfectly well with my monitor.


----------



## Mats (Jan 21, 2020)

John Naylor said:


> Pick anyone ya want and see if you can do better.
> 
> Let's see who the idiot is  ... The 5600 XT loses to the nVidia FE.    Pick anyone ya want and see if you can do better.


And where exactly can you buy the FE for a similar price? Nether pcpartpicker, geizhals nor nvidia have any listed.


----------



## Xaled (Jan 21, 2020)

John Naylor said:


> Pick anyone ya want and see if you can do better.
> 
> Let's see who the idiot is  ... The 5600 XT loses to the nVidia FE.    Pick anyone ya want and see if you can do better.
> 
> ...



FE, if found, is even more expensive, so thank you for proving my point


----------



## John Naylor (Jan 21, 2020)

Mats said:


> And where exactly can you buy the FE for a similar price? Nether pcpartpicker, geizhals nor nvidia have any listed.



1.  And where can you ever find any AIB card that is slower than the FE ?

2.  And in what would in a 7.5% investment not worth a 9.95 return on tjhat investment.  

Gigabyte 2060 OC $299








						GIGABYTE Geforce RTX 2060 OC 6G Graphics Card - Newegg.com
					

Buy GIGABYTE Geforce RTX 2060 OC 6G Graphics Card, 2 x WINDFORCE Fans, 6GB 192-Bit GDDR6, GV-N2060OC-6GD Video Card with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				




Thank you for disproving your own point.


----------



## TheGuruStud (Jan 21, 2020)

So.... where's the unlocked power OC numbers lol


----------



## W1zzard (Jan 21, 2020)

TheGuruStud said:


> So.... where's the unlocked power OC numbers lol


The card is not power constrained


----------



## Mats (Jan 21, 2020)

John Naylor said:


> 1.  And where can you ever find any AIB card that is slower than the FE ?
> 
> 2.  And in what would in a 7.5% investment not worth a 9.95 return on tjhat investment.
> 
> ...


Now you're changing focus again.. 
Why did you bring up the FE at all then?

Thank you for comparing with models that aren't for sale anymore.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 21, 2020)

nguyen said:


> RT reflections and RT transparent reflections in Control and Deliver Us The Moon make those games more immersive than any other settings...


I never stated RT as a whole was useless, i stated that RT on the lower tier RTX 2060 is useless.


----------



## Jinxed (Jan 21, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> I never stated RT as a whole was useless, i stated that RT on the lower tier RTX 2060 is useless.


and you were proven wrong. take it as a man.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 21, 2020)

Jinxed said:


> and you were proven wrong. take it as a man.


Where was i proven wrong. Please point me to the data you have that proves my point wrong.


----------



## nguyen (Jan 21, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> I never stated RT as a whole was useless, i stated that RT on the lower tier RTX 2060 is useless.



The point was you can lower other settings and enable RT reflection and RT transparent reflections and it instantly make the game look better and still playable on RTX 2060. Also DLSS on those 2 games are quite good.


----------



## xkm1948 (Jan 21, 2020)

Lack of good media coder is still a deal breaker.

A good choice for red team fans though.


----------



## Jinxed (Jan 21, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> Where was i proven wrong. Please point me to the data you have that proves my point wrong.


by multiple people's statements here.

see, it works like this:
1) you make a claim, like:


Durvelle27 said:


> RT on the lower tier RTX 2060 is useless


2) you're the presenter of the argument, you prove it with "data you have that proves my point"

the other way, asking us to disprove you (which we did anyway), is called a fallacy  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance


----------



## notb (Jan 21, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> Who buys a GPU just to use the lowest setting. That's broken logic


Good mix of high and medium would be sufficient.

There is almost always a choice in settings and some has to be lowest. Clearly someone uses them.
You may simply not understand this situation.


> Its like buying a 4K display and playing on the lowest settings by than you lost the benefit of it in the first place.


Many (if not most) people buy monitors with resolution higher than they game at. Nothing special.


> If you are going to RT at low you might as well leave it off as you won't see any difference


Maybe you don't, but someone else does. RT changes how games look in a different way than traditional settings do (details, resolution etc).
Discussing RT is getting boring.
You don't get it. Fine. Don't use it (as long as you have a choice).
I think overclocking is stupid, but I don't write about it every time someones mentions OCing.


----------



## Jinxed (Jan 21, 2020)

notb said:


> You don't get it. Fine. Don't use it (as long as you have a choice).


he does get it. he just won't aknowledge it, since team red has no raytracing at all. classic.


----------



## dicktracy (Jan 21, 2020)

No Ray Tracing means it's dead the moment next-gen consoles drop this year. How is that now a HUGE con?


----------



## notb (Jan 21, 2020)

dicktracy said:


> No Ray Tracing means it's dead the moment next-gen consoles drop this year. How is that now a HUGE con?


No, it's not. People will keep gaming without RTRT - even on cards that support it, even in games that implement it. Because they don't like the realism. Because they don't like the clarity loss. Because they're just openly against the idea despite reason and arguments.

But it likely is the last generation of cards without RTRT support.

It's not really a big issue as long as we don't see games that require RTRT or in which running without RTRT isn't making much sense anymore (it offers much worse image quality).


----------



## Casecutter (Jan 21, 2020)

Seeing EVGA is paying for banners on top and both sides of the screen it fairly evident that they see strong competition and need to get in there and mix it up.  Seem's all good to me...


----------



## jabbadap (Jan 21, 2020)

W1zzard said:


> The card is not power constrained



Well yes, but it has hard voltage limit. Overcome that and it will suck more power to retrieve more performance. Just as a reminder equally voltage restricted RX 5700 OC just as bad as this: "With manual overclocking, maximum overclock of our sample is 1860 MHz on the memory (6% overclock) and 1850 MHz on the GPU, which increases average GPU clock from 1738 MHz to 1762 MHz (1% overclock)." 

While less voltage restricted not-so efficiency minded navi cards OC higher: rx5500xt 1.97GHz OC@1.13V, RX5700xt 2.0GHz OC@1.2V


----------



## medi01 (Jan 21, 2020)

Am I misreading the charts or does Sappphire make amazingly quiet coolers, wiping the floor with RTX?






I realise 5600XT consumes less than 2060, but it's not THAT much less.


----------



## B-Real (Jan 21, 2020)

Holy moly, this card is simply incredible. Consumes less power than the RTX 2060 and is some % better, making it better performance per W (and of course perf. per $). And as I predicted, initially it would have been a highly overclockable card, that could be OCd by 12-13% like better NV cards. And it IS the second best performance/W card after the GTX 1650, which is really incredible. Well done, AMD!



medi01 said:


> Am I misreading the charts or does Sappphire make amazingly quiet coolers, wiping the floor with RTX?
> 
> View attachment 142850
> 
> I realise 5600XT consumes less than 2060, but it's not THAT much less.


Sapphire DOES make the best price/performance (meaning quality) cards for AMD.


----------



## Xuper (Jan 21, 2020)

I checked and MSI RX 5600 XT Gaming X Is *Much better* in term of cooling.


----------



## B-Real (Jan 21, 2020)

Xuper said:


> I checked and MSI RX 5600 XT Gaming X Is *Much better* in term of cooling.


MSI Gaming is not the same league as Sapphire Pulse. It is against the Nitro+. Against the Pulse MSI has the Mech, Armor models.


----------



## Xuper (Jan 21, 2020)

So Sapphire  will release Nitro+ for 5600XT ?


----------



## Deleted member 158293 (Jan 21, 2020)

Xuper said:


> So Sapphire  will release Nitro+ for 5600XT ?



If they do they'll probably have the same problem as Asus with pricing the 5600XT in 5700 territory.


----------



## B-Real (Jan 21, 2020)

Xuper said:


> So Sapphire  will release Nitro+ for 5600XT ?


No idea, I don't really follow what models does the partners release for given GPUs. But a 73C card is absolutely correct.





yakk said:


> If they do they'll probably have the same problem as Asus with pricing the 5600XT in 5700 territory.


It's true, but if you approach from the other side, you get a top-tier cooling solution in the price range of the cheapest RX 5700 cards.


----------



## sutyi (Jan 21, 2020)

B-Real said:


> No idea, I don't really follow what models does the partners release for given GPUs. But a 73C card is absolutely correct.
> It's true, but if you approach from the other side, you get a top-tier cooling solution in the price range of the cheapest RX 5700 cards.



No point to be honest. Even the PULSE model keeps this card pretty cool, considering that the factory fancurve must be really relaxed. If you do a more agressive fan curve on it maxing out at around 33-35dB noise wise, it would probably be still be quiet and you could drop around 10°C off temps.

Here in Hungary we have like 70EUR room between the PULSE RX 5600XT and the PULSE RX 5700, so I would say probably no Nitro+ version in the works, but if they do a two fan version maybe it would land between the two price wise.


----------



## R0H1T (Jan 21, 2020)

Amidst all the hoopla, we have the *most efficient* mid range *dGPU* from the red camp on *RDNA* nonetheless!
Albeit on the older BIOS, clearly shows how little people claiming to know more than AMD actually know about this space


----------



## Xuper (Jan 21, 2020)

hmm interesting.


----------



## Shatun_Bear (Jan 22, 2020)

People talking about raytracing and the RTX 2060 in the same sentence?  Thanks for a good laugh.


----------



## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Jan 22, 2020)

Chloe Price said:


> RT on 2060 is pretty useless.


It can run minecraft and Quake 2 ray-tracing good enough i suppose


----------



## Freelancer (Jan 22, 2020)

Sithaer said:


> Not everyone cares about OC-ing either,I only use my Hardware at stock/out of box settings so thats all that matters to me. _'I'm forced to undervolt my RX 570 so thats a diff story'_


I'm underclocking and undervolting my RX 580 Nitro+ and doesn't feel any change in FPS drop.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jan 22, 2020)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> It can run minecraft and Quake 2 ray-tracing good enough i suppose


what are you talking about.Quake 2 is about the most demanding rtx game so far.

as for the 2060
85 fps in cod








						Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2019 - Test wydajności ray-tracingu | PurePC.pl
					

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2019 - Test wydajności ray-tracingu (strona 5) Test wydajności kart graficznych w grze Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2019 z włączoną opcją śledzenia promieni czyli ray tracingiem. Jakie są wymagania tej technologii?




					www.purepc.pl
				




75 fps dxr medium,60 fps dxr high








						GeForce RTX 2000 - Test kart graficznych w ray tracingu i DLSS | PurePC.pl
					

GeForce RTX 2000 - Test kart graficznych w ray tracingu i DLSS (strona 5) Test wydajności kart graficznych NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060, 2070, 2080 i 2080 Ti z ray tracingiem i DLSS w Battlefield V, Metro Exodus i Shadow of the Tomb Raider.




					www.purepc.pl
				




74 medium,53 high








						GeForce RTX 2000 - Test kart graficznych w ray tracingu i DLSS | PurePC.pl
					

GeForce RTX 2000 - Test kart graficznych w ray tracingu i DLSS (strona 11) Test wydajności kart graficznych NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060, 2070, 2080 i 2080 Ti z ray tracingiem i DLSS w Battlefield V, Metro Exodus i Shadow of the Tomb Raider.




					www.purepc.pl
				




In wolfenstein it's gonna run +60 fps at 1440p

not that bad,but really,quite a difference from card that costs the same and does not support it at all.


----------



## Ibotibo01 (Jan 22, 2020)

1. Some people say that RTX 2060's RT is useless. I disagree, it has 30 RT cores but DXR performance is higher(dependent with games but mostly) than GTX 1080 Ti and RX 5700 XT(only Neon Noir). In future, RT will be important, it will became of center of games and RTX 2060 > GTX 1080 Ti for DXR games.  

2. I think that RTX 2060 is not bad value. It is almostly same with GTX 1080 and Vega 64 in new games. RTX 2060's buyers are higher than other cards buyers. AMD fanboys must look at Steam Hardware Survey. If RTX 2060 is bad value, why do many people get RTX 2060?

3. I think that RX 5600 XT's price should be 250$. It will be beat GTX 1660S and RTX 2060 for sales. For me, RX 5000(not include RX5700 XT) series prices are high because of lack of RT. I am saying RT is important if you will use 2 years or higher. Otherwise it is not important, you would change RTX 3000/4000 or Navi 6000/7000.


----------



## Xaled (Jan 22, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> what are you talking about.Quake 2 is about the most demanding rtx game so far.
> 
> as for the 2060
> 85 fps in cod
> ...


Benchmarks alone are not enough, even a minor performance drop in fps is not welcomed when the difference is either not visible or feeling worse


Ibotibo01 said:


> 1. Some people say that RTX 2060's RT is useless. I disagree, it has 30 RT cores but DXR performance is higher(dependent with games but mostly) than GTX 1080 Ti and RX 5700 XT(only Neon Noir). In future, RT will be important, it will became of center of games and RTX 2060 > GTX 1080 Ti for DXR games.
> 
> 2. I think that RTX 2060 is not bad value. It is almostly same with GTX 1080 and Vega 64 in new games. RTX 2060's buyers are higher than other cards buyers. AMD fanboys must look at Steam Hardware Survey. If RTX 2060 is bad value, why do many people get RTX 2060?
> 
> 3. I think that RX 5600 XT's price should be 250$. It will be beat GTX 1660S and RTX 2060 for sales. For me, RX 5000(not include RX5700 XT) series prices are high because of lack of RT. I am saying RT is important if you will use 2 years or higher. Otherwise it is not important, you would change RTX 3000/4000 or Navi 6000/7000.


2. Because they are either blind/brainless Fanboys or they had no choice
RT  is useless in general: because it is either unavailable in 99% of games, costy for either barely noticeable or graphics that feel worse.
RT in 2060 is even worse because it has the least number of RT cores.
I just don't get it. Why Fanboys keep saying that 5600xt's price should be 250$ but they never ever said that about the exaggeratedly overpriced 2060, 2060s, 2070, 2070s, 1660ti, 1660 super and so on.


----------



## sutyi (Jan 22, 2020)

Ibotibo01 said:


> 1. Some people say that RTX 2060's RT is useless. I disagree, it has 30 RT cores but DXR performance is higher(dependent with games but mostly) than GTX 1080 Ti and RX 5700 XT(only Neon Noir). In future, RT will be important, it will became of center of games and RTX 2060 > GTX 1080 Ti for DXR games.
> 
> 2. I think that RTX 2060 is not bad value. It is almostly same with GTX 1080 and Vega 64 in new games. RTX 2060's buyers are higher than other cards buyers. AMD fanboys must look at Steam Hardware Survey. If RTX 2060 is bad value, why do many people get RTX 2060?
> 
> 3. I think that RX 5600 XT's price should be 250$. It will be beat GTX 1660S and RTX 2060 for sales. For me, RX 5000(not include RX5700 XT) series prices are high because of lack of RT. I am saying RT is important if you will use 2 years or higher. Otherwise it is not important, you would change RTX 3000/4000 or Navi 6000/7000.



Not to burst your bubble, but buying zero gen hardware for RTRT / DXR is rather semi pointless (no offense to RTX owners).

Current generation fixed-function (non-programmable) bits in Turing accelerate some of the raytracing workload. But being fixed-function they are also not programmable, so next major DXR feature level will probably have different dataformat than the current "RT cores" work with. So anything that isn't using the old data format will be offloaded to general shaders in the GPU.

If you "need" acceptable RT with DLSS now, by all means go for an RTX 2060 6GB model, but don't expect it to work decently with next gen RT games in years to come. It'll probably be as smooth as going FP16 to  FP32 shaders on a GeForce FX.


----------



## laszlo (Jan 22, 2020)

a good card but late to the market; nvidia will adjust the price under it and still make money without any loss so i'm expecting a price war shortly

from this war amd won't gain as much as nvidia as their card seems to cost more looking at pcb ...


----------



## medi01 (Jan 22, 2020)

laszlo said:


> nvidia will adjust the price


NV dropped 2060 price by $50, at the same time dropping quality of the cards, chuckle. (that's what KO appears to mean, reverse OK, as in "not OK" )


----------



## R0H1T (Jan 22, 2020)

Nvidia's not gonna do anything until Ampere comes out & even then, much like Intel, they love their margins too much to make it a real good VFM option. Between Apple, Intel, Nvidia it's hard to say who I _*dislike*_ more for keeping their old(er) gen product prices at the same level just because they can get away with it!


----------



## B-Real (Jan 22, 2020)

sutyi said:


> No point to be honest. Even the PULSE model keeps this card pretty cool, considering that the factory fancurve must be really relaxed. If you do a more agressive fan curve on it maxing out at around 33-35dB noise wise, it would probably be still be quiet and you could drop around 10°C off temps.
> 
> Here in Hungary we have like 70EUR room between the PULSE RX 5600XT and the PULSE RX 5700, so I would say probably no Nitro+ version in the works, but if they do a two fan version maybe it would land between the two price wise.


That's 100% true and I share your opinion too: I would buy the Pulse (or Powercolor Red Dragon, or maybe the Gigabyte Gaming), but there are people who want to have the best cooling models.



cucker tarlson said:


> what are you talking about.Quake 2 is about the most demanding rtx game so far.
> 
> as for the 2060
> 85 fps in cod
> ...


I remember you linked this one earlier too. Sorry, but the minimums presented in the graphs are just not realistic at all. In most games, minimums usually are near half of the avg fps is. That' s nowhere near in the tests. 

I found these results: 

Metro RT Ultra: 24 minimum, 36 avg fps


			https://static.techspot.com/articles-info/1793/images/2019-02-15-image.png
		


Tomb Raider RT Ultra: 32 minimum, 52 avg fps


			https://static.techspot.com/articles-info/1814/images/2019-03-21-image-4.png
		


Battlefield V (with Tides of War) RT Ultra on RTX 2070: 56 minimum, 70 avg fps. Yours says RTX 2060 is 62/67


			https://static.techspot.com/articles-info/1759/images/2018-12-06-image-11.png
		


Control RTX Ultra: 36 minimum, 44 avg fps








						CONTROL PC Performance Explored - All In On RTX
					

Keith firmly believes that Control is best played and enjoyed on PC with all of the ray trancing NVIDIA features enabled.




					wccftech.com
				




CoD is a title that ran absolutely well on cheaper GPUs. Same is true for BF. Yet the latter had to be patched to get a normal performance in RT - and they did it buy reducing graphic quality. The other three, much more demanding games suck on RTX 2060 with RTX High/Ultra, according to the reviews. I don't want to have 25-30ish minimums in FHD on a $350 card. Not even on a $300. Even if it's RT.


----------



## Xuper (Jan 22, 2020)

If you use 2060 for RTX in Control, Render Resolution will be 720p while Resolution will be 1080p.so next upcoming Game will demand more resource to do ray-tracing process which RTX 2060 is NOT enough, at least RTX3060.If you want to Say 2060 is better buy , at least use below Strong logic :

NVEC / CUDA / stable driver.

DLSS and RTX are quite weak logic.


----------



## medi01 (Jan 22, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> Any moron could've anticipated that NVIDIA would cut RTX 2060 prices to hamstring 5600 XT.... except, apparently, the morons in charge of RTG. They aren't willing to drop their price to compete,


You should stop smoking that crap you are smoking, son.
5600XT is a cheaper, faster card that consumes less than even legit 2060, let alone crippled down KO.



jesdals said:


> Well is 10-20% cheaper than GTX 2060 super in denmark, but only 5-10% cheaper than the RX 5700, might be a hard sale - but funny fact its already on sale with 5-10% discount


A short illustration on why "buys make rational decisions" being a myth.


----------



## notb (Jan 22, 2020)

medi01 said:


> 5600XT is a cheaper, faster card that consumes less than even legit 2060, let alone crippled down KO.


Power consumption is higher with 5600XT (at least in TPU's test: check max gaming)


----------



## jabbadap (Jan 22, 2020)

notb said:


> Power consumption is higher with 5600XT (at least in TPU's test: check max gaming)



Nope by "consumption" peak values are quite meaningless.



medi01 said:


> NV dropped 2060 price by $50, at the same time dropping quality of the cards, chuckle. (that's what KO appears to mean, reverse OK, as in "not OK" )


Uhm I don't think Nvidia changed anything on FE...

 While true KO might have one of the worst RTX2060 models out there, it's not Nvidia's made card but EVGAs...


----------



## Assimilator (Jan 22, 2020)

medi01 said:


> You should stop smoking that crap you are smoking, son.
> 5600XT is a cheaper, faster card that consumes less than even legit 2060, let alone crippled down KO.



You should learn to read, since I never said that 5600 XT was more expensive or slower or has worse power draw.


----------



## notb (Jan 22, 2020)

jabbadap said:


> Nope by "consumption" peak values are quite meaningless.


How are they meaningless? What do you look at when buying a PSU or choosing case cooling? 

Navi peaks higher during gaming. If we got actual time series, we would know how often it happens and it what circumstances.

BTW: the average power consumption of my desktop i5 must be 10W. Amazing stuff from Intel!


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jan 22, 2020)

Xaled said:


> Benchmarks alone are not enough, even a minor performance drop in fps is not welcomed when the difference is either not visible or feeling worse


what are you talking about ?
every quality setting has an impact
rasterized soft shadows,ultra ssr reflections,and especially ultra global illumination in some traditionally rendered games are absolute performance killers.
you think rtx alone has a performance hit ?

and how are ray traced reflections,shadows and GI worse ?
have you seen what ssr and rasterized ultra shadows look like in modern AAAs in comparison to rtx ? realistic volumetric GI in quantum break had my gtx 1080 struggling at 32-34 fps.
we're approaching a decade of developers making a mockery of reflections and shadows,the more recent the game the worse the examples of it get.I played 400 hrs of odyssey,I know the ssr compred to a decade old bioshock games are just comically bad.
to get a tool like rtrt and dismiss as it worse than what big studios have been producing with rasterized reflections/shadows/light recently is ludicrous.



jabbadap said:


> Nope by "consumption" peak values are quite meaningless.


my dead 290 trix cards and dead XFX 850w psu would like to disagree
it does not matter until it happens to you



Xuper said:


> If you use 2060 for RTX in Control, Render Resolution will be 720p while Resolution will be 1080p.so next upcoming Game will demand more resource to do ray-tracing process which RTX 2060 is NOT enough, at least RTX3060.If you want to Say 2060 is better buy , at least use below Strong logic :
> 
> NVEC / CUDA / stable driver.
> 
> DLSS and RTX are quite weak logic.


well yes,but control uses 4 different rt settings at max,it's pretty intensive
what you're always comparing is dxr ultra,which is pretty balls out usually
2060 can't handle ultra,but medium is usually fine and high might be possible in some too.



B-Real said:


> That's 100% true and I share your opinion too: I would buy the Pulse (or Powercolor Red Dragon, or maybe the Gigabyte Gaming), but there are people who want to have the best cooling models.
> 
> 
> I remember you linked this one earlier too. Sorry, but the minimums presented in the graphs are just not realistic at all. In most games, minimums usually are near half of the avg fps is. That' s nowhere near in the tests.
> ...


can you provide information on the timeframe ?
bf5 and metro both got performance patches,and quite significat ones.
techspot (hwunboxed) tend to test early and leave it.
as for metro,25 fps min is possible,if they went crazy with other settings.
performance in metro can absolutely destroy a high end gpu even without rtx









						Metro Exodus - Test wydajności kart graficznych. Totalna masakra! | PurePC.pl
					

Metro Exodus - Test wydajności kart graficznych. Totalna masakra! (strona 18) Test wydajności kart graficznych w grze Metro Exodus. Pytasz: czy mi pójdzie? Jeśli masz RTX 2080 Ti pójdzie, a jeśli coś słabszego, to trzeba zmniejszać ustawienia.




					www.purepc.pl
				




2080ti can't do 60 at 1080p


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## Metroid (Jan 22, 2020)

anything less than 256 bit bus is pretty useless for most deep learning, ai and the sort and at this price, i wish it was no more than $200.


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## jabbadap (Jan 22, 2020)

notb said:


> How are they meaningless? What do you look at when buying a PSU or choosing case cooling?
> 
> Navi peaks higher during gaming. If we got actual time series, we would know how often it happens and it what circumstances.
> 
> BTW: the average power consumption of my desktop i5 must be 10W. Amazing stuff from Intel!



Right like that matter when one has 6W higher peak. Higher peak does not make more temperature load to the system, higher average does(Energy is time cumulative of power). Either way they are so close with the power consumption and considering chip variances, that they are virtually tie in gaming power consumption.


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## cucker tarlson (Jan 22, 2020)

jabbadap said:


> Right like that matter when one has 6W higher peak. Higher peak does not make more temperature load to the system, higher average does(Energy is time cumulative of power). Either way they are so close with the power consumption and considering chip variances, that they are virtually tie in gaming power consumption.


he's talking avg vs peak,that's clear.


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## Xuper (Jan 22, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> well yes,but control uses 4 different rt settings at max,it's pretty intensive
> what you're always comparing is dxr ultra,which is pretty balls out usually
> 2060 can't handle ultra,but medium is usually fine and high might be possible in some too.



I didn't mention ultra rather low/Medium.my point is that RTX on 2060 is weak.we will see in 2 years later when games are going to eat a lot resources for ray-tracing process.different between DXR off/low is at least 40%.a card like 2060 can only use in game like Minecraft / Quake II.I bet Cyberpunk 2077 will be worse due to Open world.


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## notb (Jan 22, 2020)

jabbadap said:


> Right like that matter when one has 6W higher peak.


Higher is higher. I was answering the post that 5600XT pulls less.


> Higher peak does not make more temperature load to the system,


But high peaks are what makes PSUs and cooling fail. You buy stuff to cover the maximums.

You have 2 systems: A and B. They have the same average performance.
A has slightly lower average but boosts much higher from time to time. B has slightly higher average, but without peaks.
System A will need more expensive mobo, PSU and cooling.

Peaks matter - that's all I'm saying. Don't take it too personal.


> higher average does(Energy is time cumulative of power).


This you can take personal: energy is a time INTEGRAL of power.
Cumulative is a sum. A sum of whatever is still a whatever.


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## R0H1T (Jan 22, 2020)

notb said:


> But high peaks are what makes PSUs and cooling fail. You buy stuff to cover the maximums.


You don't buy PSU's with 5~10W load off the maximum required by your system, that's called suicide or stupid. Anyone doing this should not be doing DIY builds. You usually get a margin of 50~100W also taking into consideration the (PSU) efficiency & other peripheral components. So no GPU's will rarely kill your system, unless one's being too cute or cheap. Secondly good PSUs can handle more than 100% load for a short period of time, so again maximum power draw matters less here.

As for the power draw itself, the comment you replied to was likely about efficiency i.e. fps/W & as you can see a lot of reviews put the 5600XT (older BIOS?) at the top. Unless we have better data at hand?


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## notb (Jan 23, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> You don't buy PSU's with 5~10W load off the maximum required by your system


No, you don't. But you still need to cover the peaks, not the averages. It's a general remark.
This was triggered by @jabbadap:
`"consumption" peak values are quite meaningless`


> As for the power draw itself, the comment you replied to was likely about efficiency i.e. fps/W & as you can see a lot of reviews put the 5600XT (older BIOS?) at the top. Unless we have better data at hand?


I'm not going to poetically interpret every comment.
@medi01 said:
`5600XT is a cheaper, faster card[B] that consumes less than even legit 2060[/B], let alone crippled down KO.`
I think this sentence is fairly straightforward. If he meant efficiency or that he wants his burger medium rare - he should have worded this differently.


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## Ibotibo01 (Jan 23, 2020)

Xaled said:


> Benchmarks alone are not enough, even a minor performance drop in fps is not welcomed when the difference is either not visible or feeling worse
> 
> 2. Because they are either blind/brainless Fanboys or they had no choice
> RT  is useless in general: because it is either unavailable in 99% of games, costy for either barely noticeable or graphics that feel worse.
> ...



If you are changing regular your GPU, you won't buy RTX 20 series. I am not Nvidia fanboy. I have used AMD GPU for 7 years. AMD makes great Price/Performance GPUs. If i choosed one card for today, I would choose RX580/GTX 1650S.

Any how, AMD has got bad GPU drivers for old CPU such as Intel 4. Gen or lower. My some friends are using RX 570 with Intel. They have got Wattman issues and get unsteady FPS with new drivers. 
My country's people love Nvidia, you will get it if you look used GPU prices. 

Used Vega 56's price is $180. Well, What is used GTX 1070 price?  It is $230. People only buy Nvidia, if i choose AMD, i will sell for low price. 
Another example, used GTX 1080 is $300 and new RX 5700 is $340. Most people are brainless because of the fact that they sell their GTX 1080 Ti cheaper for geting RTX cards. WHAT is used GTX 1080 Ti prices in my country? Used GTX 1080 Ti is 360$.

NOT ALWAYS SUPPORT GPU MANUFACTURER BECAUSE YOU ARE CUSTOMER, THEY WANT YOUR MONEY. 


RX 5600 XT's price is high. I choose RX 5700 for extra $30 and you get 2GB extra VRAM.


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## R0H1T (Jan 23, 2020)

> I'm not going to poetically interpret every comment.
> @medi01 said:
> 5600XT is a cheaper, faster card* that consumes less than even legit 2060*, let alone crippled down KO.
> I think this sentence is fairly straightforward. If he meant efficiency or that he wants his burger medium rare - he should have worded this differently.


Yet as I've demonstrated there're multiple reviews showing the 5600XT using less power than the RTX2060, total system or even GPU power draw. Now I'm not gonna pull your leg beating this dead horse, but when it comes to maximum power draw you do know know that GPU power consumption can vary greatly from card to card even for the same AIB models?

The issue of maximum or avg power draw is next to irrelevant in cases such as these, where the cards are virtually tied under most metrics.


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## cucker tarlson (Jan 23, 2020)

Ibotibo01 said:


> If you are changing regular your GPU, you won't buy RTX 20 series.


I did.sold my 1080ti trio for a new 2070 super trio.cost me zilch.got same performance but a cooler and quieter card,higher max OC (2100 vs 2000) rtx support and two games.



R0H1T said:


> Yet as I've demonstrated there're multiple reviews showing the 5600XT using less power than the RTX2060, total system or even GPU power draw. Now I'm not gonna pull your leg beating this dead horse, but when it comes to maximum power draw you do know know that GPU power consumption can vary greatly from card to card even for the same AIB models?
> 
> The issue of maximum or avg power draw is next to irrelevant in cases such as these, where the cards are virtually tied under most metrics.


Lower avg,higher peak,about 5w difference between them.5600xt is slightly more efficient stock,2060 overclocked.
You're splitting hairs.
Navi matched turing on a node down and no rt hardware,it is a small win for amd nevertheless.


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## R0H1T (Jan 23, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> Lower avg,higher peak,about 5w difference between them.*5600xt is slightly more efficient stock,2060 overclocked.*
> You're splitting hairs.
> Navi matched turing on a node down and no rt hardware,it is a small win for amd nevertheless.


Nope, AT & many others show even the "OCed" 5600xt is better i.e. lower in total (system) power vs 2060.
I'm not splitting anything, just countering some of the *assumptions* that you & many others made in this thread remember?








						High End Navi 21 TWO x Faster than 5700XT
					

AMD’s High-End ‘Radeon RX’ Navi 21 GPU Rumors: Twice As Fast as Navi 10, 505mm2 Die Size, Faster GDDR6 Memory Big Navi 2x Faster over RX 5700XT?  Hope there's some truth to this one. Perhaps TPU can expand on this interesting news. Not to mention CES2020 is coming soon.   And we all probably...




					www.techpowerup.com
				



Now why don't some of claimants tell us how efficient TSMC's 12nm node is? Given that we have no AMD GPU on it & presumably uarch changes & clock speeds don't matter anymore?

Just so you know 5600xt is anywhere between 20~40% more efficient than 5700xt but yes carry on with the rest.


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## cucker tarlson (Jan 23, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> Nope, AT & many others show even the "OCed" 5600xt is better i.e. lower in total (system) power vs 2060.
> I'm not splitting anything, just countering some of the *assumptions* that you & many others made in this thread remember?
> 
> 
> ...


Efficiency means performance and power draw,2060 gains more with OC than 5600.

And it is splitting hairs.
When 580 drew more power than 1080 people said it doesnt matter.
Now 5600 draws 4w less than 2060 built on a node down and people cant stop talking  about it.


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## R0H1T (Jan 23, 2020)

Efficiency means efficiency, don't go around making new definitions for it & how does OC (headroom or potential) come into the picture?


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## cucker tarlson (Jan 23, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> Efficiency means efficiency, don't go around making new definitions for it & how does OC (headroom or potential) come into the picture?


Lol, efficiency is literally performance per watt.
How you can measure OC power draw,OC performance but your brain shorts when you hear per per watt at max OC is frankly quite strange.


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## Ibotibo01 (Jan 23, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> I did.sold my 1080ti trio for a new 2070 super trio.cost me zilch.got same performance but a cooler and quieter card,higher max OC (2100 vs 2000) rtx support and two games.


Sell price is important for me. Changing with situation.
If Nvidia release Ampere in 2020, who buy RTX 20 series in Q4 2019/Q1 2020 will get overcharged(related with price) because of the fact that RTX 30 will be strong.

My Expectations,
RTX 3050 6GB= GTX 1660 Ti with RT for $150 / CUDA cores = 1408 / RT cores 44 / 75W
RTX 3050 Ti=RTX 2060 for $220 / CUDA cores = 1536 / RT cores 48 / 90W
RTX 3060 8GB=RTX 2080S for $310 / CUDA cores = 2304 / RT cores 72 / 120W
RTX 3070 12GB=RTX 2080 Ti/Titan for $420 / CUDA cores = 2816 / RT cores 88 / 140W
RTX 3080 12GB= RTX 2080 Ti+%27 for $600 / CUDA cores = 3584 / RT cores 112 / 160W
RTX 3080 Ti 16GB=RTX 2080 Ti+%50 for $900 / CUDA cores = 5120 / RT cores 160 / 200W

I have got RTX 2060 and i am still waiting for RTX 3060/70 because of 7NM.


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## cucker tarlson (Jan 23, 2020)

Ibotibo01 said:


> RTX 3060 8GB=RTX 2080S for $310 / CUDA cores = 2304 / RT cores 72 / 120W


Console GPU will be their reference,9 tflop rdna.
3060 will be 2080 at 350-400
72 rt units for a 2304 cuda GPU is unlikely too unless they go for 4 cuda per SM or something.I expect 48


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## Ibotibo01 (Jan 23, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> Console GPU will be their reference,9 tflop rdna.
> 3060 will be 2080 at 350-400
> 72 rt units for a 2304 cuda GPU is unlikely too unless they go for 4 cuda per SM or something.I expect 48


Probably, It happens as you said.


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## R0H1T (Jan 23, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> Lol, *efficiency is literally performance per watt*.
> How you can measure OC power draw,*OC performance but your brain shorts* when you hear *per per watt at max OC* is frankly quite strange.


Thanks for reminding us, mind repeating why you brought OC or stock up then?

Maybe it wouldn't if you'd frame your responses in a more tangible & legible way.

There you go again, blowing a few caps along the way.

Weren't you & a few others claiming how "inept" or *inefficient* RTG was in not matching Nvidia at *12nm* & how big Navi (RDNA2) would be an unmitigated disaster with its (in)efficiency? What happened to that prediction or how you can't wrap your head around the fact that the most efficient Navi, as of now, is 40% or more efficient than their worst chip with just a few tweaks?


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## medi01 (Jan 23, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> You should learn to read, since I never said that 5600 XT was more expensive or slower or has worse power draw.


You should, perhaps, learn to think, because when something is cheaper, faster and consuming less power it shouldn't need further price drops.


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## cucker tarlson (Jan 23, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> Thanks for reminding us, mind repeating why you brought OC or stock up then?
> 
> Maybe it wouldn't if you'd frame your responses in a more tangible & legible way.
> 
> ...


It is what it is,numbers are there.
And why are you referring to my posts as other's posts.
Looks like you need more time to catch up on who said what.



medi01 said:


> You should, perhaps, learn to think, because when something is cheaper, faster and consuming less power it shouldn't need further price drops.


Once again,no it isn't, numbers are plain to see.
Aib vs aib 2060 is same or faster,and 5600xt is maxed out of the box while 2060 has headroom








						Sapphire Radeon RX 5600 XT Pulse
					

The cheapest rtx 2060 which is newly released Evga KO is selling at 320 at newegg   You can get an EVGA 260 KO at Microcenter for $300 if you live near one or $310 at Amazon.  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083GH7LXW?ascsubtag=s15741871268966ef9a52439&tag=52439_iceleadscom-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1




					www.techpowerup.com
				




I am not voicing any opinion here,for me both are slow,I had a faster card with more vram 3.5 years ago.
I am just doing the math for those who apparently can't.


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## Xuper (Jan 23, 2020)

all of my friends who had top card , they never did OC.I bet If TPU creates a new Poll , Poll will show less than %5 will do OC


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## cucker tarlson (Jan 23, 2020)

Xuper said:


> all of my friends who had top card , they never did OC.I bet If TPU creates a new Poll , Poll will show less than %5 will do OC





cucker tarlson said:


>


  


using "your friends" as a reference.
well played sir.


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## Xuper (Jan 23, 2020)

Yeah dream on.you live in your dream world while major of people aren't like you.well it's hard for you to accept truth that people don't do OC.that's why NV/Intel/AMD invested Boost process.buying 2060 because of OC is weak reason.


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## cucker tarlson (Jan 23, 2020)

Xuper said:


> Yeah dream on.you live in your dream world while major of people aren't like you.well it's hard for you to accept truth that people don't do OC.that's why NV/Intel/AMD invested Boost process.buying 2060 because of OC is weak reason.


I bet those 19 out of 20 friends that don't overclock would be perfectly fine with a bios flash on their new card tho.

buying 2060 in 2020 is weak.
period.
and this card is fater than 5600xt and does rtx medium/high fine

just wait for the damn ampere/rdna2/consoles


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## kapone32 (Jan 23, 2020)

Xuper said:


> all of my friends who had top card , they never did OC.I bet If TPU creates a new Poll , Poll will show less than %5 will do OC



WHile I agree with some of what you are saying my thought process is that if AMD had released this card as intended and reviewers were able to manually show the OC potential (that is now gone) and this card would have sold like hot potatoes. For me what fans of AMD cards are missing is the OC potential that Tahiti spoiled us with.


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## cucker tarlson (Jan 23, 2020)

kapone32 said:


> For me what fans of AMD cards are missing is the OC potential that Tahiti spoiled us with.


let me guess
tahiti is when his friends oc'd ?


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## Xuper (Jan 23, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> I bet those 19 out of 20 friends that don't overclock would be perfectly fine with a bios flash on their new card tho.





cucker tarlson said:


> let me guess
> tahiti is when his friends oc'd ?


Lol ,I am only one with AMD CPU/Card.all of my friends are Intel/NV and they're Noob and Rich.Well this is reality almost 90% people are noob.Reddit/All forums aren't resemble of those people.maybe in 5 or 10 years later will change and people get educated more.


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## kapone32 (Jan 23, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> let me guess
> thaiti is when his friends oc'd ?



You got me on that one. The only people I know who don't OC their GPU (speaking about my circle) are those who are new to PC Gaming. As that is the free way to get a performance increase.


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## cucker tarlson (Jan 23, 2020)

Xuper said:


> Lol ,I am only one with AMD CPU/Card.all of my friends are Intel/NV and they're Noob and Rich.Well this is reality almost 90% people are noob.Reddit/All forums aren't resemble of those people.maybe in 5 or 10 years later will change and people get educated more.


yes we are so uneducated for getting faster cards with stable drivers and better feature set.



kapone32 said:


> You got me on that one. The only people I know who don't OC their GPU (speaking about my circle) are those who are new to PC Gaming. As that is the free way to get a performance increase.


I had 7870 ghz,overclocked like a demon.


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## kapone32 (Jan 23, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> yes we are so uneducated for getting faster cards with stable drivers and better feature set.
> 
> 
> I had 7870 ghz,overclocked like a demon.



Yep I had 2 7950s and was quite pleased with a 1150 MHZ clock from 945 MHZ base. I could do 1200 but did not want to adjust the voltages.


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## cucker tarlson (Jan 23, 2020)

kapone32 said:


> Yep I had 2 7950s and was quite pleased with a 1150 MHZ clock from 945 MHZ base. I could do 1200 but did not want to adjust the voltages.


mine did 1200 stock


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## Xuper (Jan 23, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> yes we are so uneducated for getting faster cards with stable drivers and better feature set.


 ofc but You're using OC word to justify 2060 Which I disagree.as I wrote in previous Post , strong reason should be used Like Nvidia Promised G-sync compatible.You could use
Example : Hey customer , you can get this card and do crazy OC , You think He/She does know ? I could say hey customer , If you get this you can enjoy G-sync compatible/Ultra If you monitor supports or later buy a new Monitor.What would He/she react?


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## cucker tarlson (Jan 23, 2020)

Xuper said:


> ofc but You're using OC word to justify 2060 Which I disagree.as I wrote in previous Post , strong reason should be used Like Nvidia Promised G-sync compatible.You could use
> Example : Hey customer , you can get this card and do crazy OC , You think He/She does know ? I could say hey customer , If you get this you can enjoy G-sync compatible/Ultra If you monitor supports or later buy a new Monitor.What would He/she react?


i'm just calculating the difference between fe and aib and oc since I've been doing this every time I buy a gpu,like most of us.

why are you talking about monitors?

I have a strong suspicion you are crazy sir.


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## kapone32 (Jan 23, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> mine did 1200 stock



This is why for me Tahiti was the fail for AMD as no cards released after that could come close to that satisfaction.


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## cucker tarlson (Jan 23, 2020)

kapone32 said:


> This is why for me Tahiti was the fail for AMD as no cards released after that could come close to that satisfaction.


stock performance was the problem,,especially withj 390 and after
weak oc headroom did not help either


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## kapone32 (Jan 23, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> stock performance was the problem,,especially withj 390 and after
> weak oc headroom did not help either



Especially against Team Green.


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## Xuper (Jan 23, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> why are you talking about monitors?
> 
> I have a strong suspicion you are crazy sir.


to Tell Customer Why 2060 is better card than 5600XT. Did You ever work at store?


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## cucker tarlson (Jan 23, 2020)

Xuper said:


> to Tell Customer Why 2060 is better card than 5600XT. Did You ever work at store?


again,tpu is not a store,what it is a tech site.comparing reference vs aib vs oc is normal.if it hurts you,don't read it.



kapone32 said:


> Especially against Team Green.


well,frankly maxwell had some crazy oc headroom in the tank


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## Xuper (Jan 23, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> again,tpu is not a store,what it is a tech site.comparing reference vs aib vs oc is normal.if it hurts you,don't read it.


Fair enough.


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## cucker tarlson (Jan 23, 2020)

Xuper said:


> Fair enough.


why the fanboyism tho ?
it's just percentages that I was trying to show medi01 since he was off (what a surprise) ,both for stock aib vs stock aib and oc vs oc.
5600xt has no reference model,using their best aib from sapphire as the starting point is not apples to apples.

anyway,it's splitting hairs.


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## kapone32 (Jan 23, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> why the fanboyism tho ?
> it's just percentages that I was trying to show medi01 since he was off (what a surprise) ,both for stock aib vs stock aib and oc vs oc.
> 5600xt has no reference model,using their best aib from sapphire as the starting point is not apples to apples.
> 
> anyway,it's splitting hairs.



At the end of the day it doesn't matter. I truly believe that, what most of us are waiting for are Big Navi and Ampere. This is why the argument exists that, this card should be $250. The power draw is better but, the performance is the same (and if you undervolt and OC) as the Vega 56. The 2080TI is hands down the fastest Gaming GPU period. The card is an average $399 in Canada because of the $280 MSRP and that for me is too much.


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## cucker tarlson (Jan 24, 2020)

kapone32 said:


> At the end of the day it doesn't matter. I truly believe that, what most of us are waiting for are Big Navi and Ampere. This is why the argument exists that, this card should be $250. The power draw is better but, the performance is the same (and if you undervolt and OC) as the Vega 56. The 2080TI is hands down the fastest Gaming GPU period. The card is an average $399 in Canada because of the $280 MSRP and that for me is too much.


Yup.
2060/5600 will be slower than consoles this year.and by quite a margin.
Come ampere and rdna,they will be 3050/6500,150 dollar cards.
I see no reason to buy those cards now,especially one that is running out of spec to deliver competitive performance and plagued by driver issues.


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## Turmania (Mar 17, 2020)

I think it is a great card, but this bios flash thing is a deal breaker. If I can be sure it ships with updated Bios yes  great, but if not I would rather pay 20-30 USD extra and get a RX 5700. In fact, rx 5700 makes more sense for little price increase even if the Bios issue was not a problem.


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## TheGuruStud (Mar 17, 2020)

Turmania said:


> I think it is a great card, but this bios flash thing is a deal breaker. If I can be sure it ships with updated Bios yes  great, but if not I would rather pay 20-30 USD extra and get a RX 5700. In fact, rx 5700 makes more sense for little price increase even if the Bios issue was not a problem.



Running an EXE is a deal breaker? Let me tell you about MBs....


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