# Router & Modem WAN IP address questions



## videobruce (Dec 31, 2017)

Trying to understand the events involved for a Router to get recognized with a WAN IP address thru a Modem. This is with a CATV ISP (Spectrum/TWC if that matters)

Flashing the firmware, or any activity that requires disconnection of the link between the Modem & the Router. 
Modem & Router on line,
WAN cable disconnected from Modem to flash Router,
After flash, WAN cable reconnected, connectyion to Modem shows active via LED indicators on both devices,
PC can access Routers web interface ok, and clinest get populated ok also (they have static IP address set within the devices),
Router does not have a WAN address, any Gateway or any DNS address from the ISP yet.

The "DHCP Release & Renew" function in the Router isn't that suppose to solve this without rebooting the Modem?


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## Solaris17 (Dec 31, 2017)

videobruce said:


> Trying to understand the events involved for a Router to get recognized with a WAN IP address thru a Modem. This is with a CATV ISP (Spectrum/TWC if that matters)
> 
> Flashing the firmware, or any activity that requires disconnection of the link between the Modem & the Router.
> Modem & Router on line,
> ...



No the modem has its own lease time. Generally this is 24 hours. Be fore flashing you can release the IP and most of the time it will fix it. In this case you can try rebooting the modem. Or just call them and have them reset the link on your modem.

Though this is usually based off of MAC address and you shouldn’t really be experiencing this (your situation generally happens when physically changing routers)


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 31, 2017)

What is it you are trying to do? Does your network work properly?

It is not uncommon to require a full network reset (or at least local network) after flashing the router's firmware. That is, unplug power from router and connected computers. Don't just power down PCs as that just puts them in standby mode and the NIC is still alive. 

I would also unplug power for the modem for a full network reset.

Wait 30 to 60 seconds then power up the modem. Wait for lights to settle down, then power up the router and wait for those lights to settle down. Then power up the main computer. I suspect you will be good to go.

Since most ISP techs have a troubleshooting checklist they cannot deviate from, and since resetting the network is always at the top of that list (because it often does fix networking issues), this is something you most likely will have to do anyway when you call them. So I recommend you reset your network. It likely will fix any IP assignment issues. But if you still have problems, you can then tell tech support you already did it - though they will likely have you do it again because it is on their checklist and the don't have the authority to deviate from it.


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## videobruce (Dec 31, 2017)

Everything is ok now, I did power cycle the Modem, but I wanted to avoid doing that.

Let me ask this, what exactly does the "DHCP Release & Renew" function in the Router do?


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## FordGT90Concept (Dec 31, 2017)

DHCP Release & Renew basically tells the router above yours (at the gateway address) "give me new IP."  If that router is not running a DHCP server, it has no effect (because static addresses).


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## OneMoar (Dec 31, 2017)

the modem handles the WAN DHCP from the MDD/CMTS it just forwards that to the router
all release/new does is reset the routers lease for that ip

if you want to change the ip on spectrum you need to change the routers MAC, hit apply and then reboot the modem


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## videobruce (Dec 31, 2017)

FordGT90Concept said:


> DHCP Release & Renew basically tells the router above yours (at the gateway address) "give me new IP."  If that router is not running a DHCP server, it has no effect (because static addresses).


When you say "that router" not running DHCP, are you meaning my Router or theirs at the HE?



OneMoar said:


> the modem handles the WAN DHCP from the MDD/CMTS it just forwards that to the router
> all release/new does is reset the routers lease for that ip
> if you want to change the ip on spectrum you need to change the routers MAC, hit apply and then reboot the modem


The initial problem was, that address was not passed along to the Router, not until I rebooted the Modem. I don't/didn't want to change the address, I wanted the Router to get it again preferably w/o rebooting the Modem.

If I did nothing, would the Router eventually get recognized again? And how long?
Also, in that state, I could not access the Modem.


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## FordGT90Concept (Dec 31, 2017)

Theirs.  Routers assign IPs to their subordinates either statically (manual assignment) or dynamically (DHCP server).  Their router/DHCP server is assigning your router the WAN address you see.  Your router's DHCP server is assigning addresses to your computer and devices.



videobruce said:


> If I did nothing, would the Router eventually get recognized again? And how long?
> Also, in that state, I could not access the Modem.


What model is this modem?  If there is a modem, it looks like your router is using PPPoE or similar to control the modem.  In which case, you should be able to look at the router logs to see what error the modem is giving.  Most likely it will say something down the lines of being unable to obtain an IP from the provider.  In other words, there's too much noise in the line to get connected.  A lot of ISP provided modems will only try once before they give up.  This is why you have to power cycle the modem (forces it to try again).  High end/non ISP modems will try again every few seconds until it gets connected so power cycling them usually doesn't accomplish anything.

If there is a physical modem and you couldn't access it via your intranet, either the modem is dead/dying or the cable connecting the router to the modem is garbage.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 31, 2017)

videobruce said:


> I did power cycle the Modem, but I wanted to avoid doing that.


Why? It does no harm and in fact, often restores performance as it forces the ISP servers to refresh all the settings on their side too - a good thing.


FordGT90Concept said:


> DHCP Release & Renew basically tells the router above yours (at the gateway address) "give me new IP."


True - well, kinda sorta. "Renew" does not automatically imply a "new" (IE, "different") IP address. The fact is, it is almost certain the same addresses from the ISP will be reassigned back to the same MAC address. ISPs typically use a semi-static type assignment system. Their network will "dynamically" assign a "new" IP when you first subscribe to their service, but then that IP becomes tied to the MAC address of the gateway device (typically the modem). So even if you disconnect for a week or even longer, when you connect again, it is not uncommon for the same IP address to be assigned to your modem again. 

In fact, I recently purchased a new modem which of course, required me to contact my ISP to get it authenticated on their network. It was assigned the same IP address as my old modem - they just linked it to the new MAC address of the new modem. 

About the only way I can get a different IP assignment from my ISP is if hackers and bad guys have spoofed my IP and suddenly my IP gets blacklisted because of the bad guys activities. But this is a pain because I would almost have to prove my innocence (that I was not the bad guy). Proving innocence if often much harder than proving guilt.

Of course that was my ISP (Cox). Others may do it differently.


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## OneMoar (Dec 31, 2017)

if the router doesn't have a LAN ip in the 192.168.0.0 range you won't be-able to access the modems webui (ddwrt's default DHCP lease on the WAN port is a little long if it doesn't expire directly after the modem goes down it won't switch to a LAN subnet right away, also if the modem encounters a issue and looses lock on the tFTP server some weirdness can occur, remember cable modems get there config and firmware from the isp MDD at boot the factory image is keep for when it can't establish a connection to the DOCSIS provider)

if you changed from stock to ddwrt firmware then yes a physical reboot is required,also a good idea after a router firmware upgrade if the dnsmasq daemon is updated

dd wrt takes a good two min to fully come back online after a reboot, the web ui doesn't always refresh the wan ip right away

I don't quite understand what you think your 'problem' is because there isn't one everything behaved exactly as intended,eventually it would have gotten anouther DHCP advertisement and been fine (up to 180 seconds AFTER ddwrt fully boots) 

@*FordGT90Concept *PPoE is not a thing on cable . thats DSL,


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## videobruce (Jan 6, 2018)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Theirs.  Routers assign IPs to their subordinates either statically (manual assignment) or dynamically (DHCP server).  Their router/DHCP server is assigning your router the WAN address you see.  Your router's DHCP server is assigning addresses to your computer and devices.


If there was a Router connected, then disconnected (for a few minutes), with the Modem still connected, when the same Router gets reconnected, shouldn't the 'handshake' (if that is the correct term) be re-established with no other user intervention?

The Modem logs are normal. There are some reoccurring, supposed 'error' messages, but they show on a regular basis when there are no issues. The logs in the Router don't show anything either.



Bill_Bright said:


> True - well, kinda sorta. "Renew" does not automatically imply a "new" (IE, "different") IP address. The fact is, it is almost certain the same addresses from the ISP will be reassigned back to the same MAC address. ISPs typically use a semi-static type assignment system. Their network will "dynamically" assign a "new" IP when you first subscribe to their service, but then that IP becomes tied to the MAC address of the gateway device (typically the modem). So even if you disconnect for a week or even longer, when you connect again, it is not uncommon for the same IP address to be assigned to your modem again.


The reason for hitting the Release/Renew was to get the 'handshake' back that was lost when the Router was disconnected, the reconnected. It idin't do what I thought it would. I wasn't looking for a new address, just the recognition that the Router was there.

The only way that happened is to reboot the Modem which I was hoping I wouldn't have to. Maybe I should ask this; doesn't that first server know when the Router is reconnected w/o rebooting the Modem?? It's almost as it doesn't/can't see the Router when it back on. 



OneMoar said:


> dd wrt takes a good two min to fully come back online after a reboot, the web ui doesn't always refresh the wan ip right away
> I don't quite understand what you think your 'problem' is because there isn't one everything behaved exactly as intended,eventually it would have gotten anouther DHCP advertisement and been fine (up to 180 seconds AFTER ddwrt fully boots)


I purposely waited over 5 minutes and the Router never go it's WAN address back.


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## Bill_Bright (Jan 6, 2018)

videobruce said:


> The only way that happened is to reboot the Modem which I was hoping I wouldn't have to. Maybe I should ask this; doesn't that first server know when the Router is reconnected w/o rebooting the Modem?? It's almost as it doesn't/can't see the Router when it back on.


Not certain what you mean by "first server". If you mean the ISP then no, they cannot see what's on the other side (your side) of their modem. That's the beauty of using a router (even if you only have one computer connected). The modem only sees one connected device. It does not know if it is a router or a computer. You can have 30 computers connected on your side of your router and the ISP only sees one connected device, the router. They can surmise by the amount of traffic more than one computer is connected but they sure cannot see individual devices. Neither can the bad guys!  At least not unless you, as the user and always weakest link in security, let them in.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 6, 2018)

videobruce said:


> If there was a Router connected, then disconnected (for a few minutes), with the Modem still connected, when the same Router gets reconnected, shouldn't the 'handshake' (if that is the correct term) be re-established with no other user intervention?
> 
> The Modem logs are normal. There are some reoccurring, supposed 'error' messages, but they show on a regular basis when there are no issues. The logs in the Router don't show anything either.


This indicates that the problem is further up the chain so you can't do anything to fix it.  I would try to tracert google.com when it happens and it should clearly show which hop has problems.  Forward the results of the tracert to your ISP.


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## videobruce (Jan 6, 2018)

I did and I have. Lool at the 2nd hop, that was what I was referring to, thats an aggreated router isn't it righ after the CMTS??


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## flmatter (Jan 6, 2018)

https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1415155
So how does this compare to what you are being told here?
Did you buy a new router or still trying to figure things out from your last thread about troubleshooting the router? https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1415747


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 7, 2018)

videobruce said:


> I did and I have. Lool at the 2nd hop, that was what I was referring to, thats an aggreated router isn't it righ after the CMTS??


That looks perfectly normal to me:
Hop 1 = your computer to your router (LAN)
Hop 2 = your router to your ISP (WAN)
Hop 3-6 = Road Runner trunk lines

>100ms is slow.
>1000ms is bad.
Unreachable is broken.


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## videobruce (Jan 7, 2018)

flmatter said:


> https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1415155
> So how does this compare to what you are being told here?
> Did you buy a new router or still trying to figure things out from your last thread about troubleshooting the router? https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1415747


Additional input, except for that last grossly incorrect claim about causing the problem which I responded to accordingly.
I'm looking for another Router, troubleshooting is over, I have wasted way too much time on this already.



FordGT90Concept said:


> That looks perfectly normal to me:
> Hop 1 = your computer to your router (LAN)
> Hop 2 = your router to your ISP (WAN)
> Hop 3-6 = Road Runner trunk lines
> ...


I misspoke, I meant the 3rd hop with the 1/2 second peak latency & the 80ms jitter (labeled "var") that my VoIP provider believes is causing my dropped phone calls.


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## flmatter (Jan 7, 2018)

OK   I know this question is related to your other thread, somewhat relevant here. So when you plug your main machine directly to the modem, you have no issues? How long do you leave it plugged directly in, hour or 2 or a day? Once you connect your router in and start setting up devices on it, that is when crashes start happen( lag spike, latency drop connection)?Is it immediately after you connect everything back up or does it take time, a couple of hours... day or 2?  Last question have you felt/touched the router when these issues start?   I know it sounds redundant, but just clear the air. I know its frustrating but trying to help as is everyone else.
Like I stated in your other thread if and when you go to buy a router, go AC1200 or higher. Bestbuy has them starting around $80. 
Mods can move this is deemed OT. apologies in advance


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## videobruce (Jan 7, 2018)

I only have connected the PC directly for less than 10 min. Doing so, I loose my VoIP service.
The issue can be triggered by maxing out or close to the connection speed of 100Mpbs. Again, this is *ONLY* with dd-wrt F/W (three versions around the past 2 months). openwrt is fine that I have been running for over a week now. I did a silimar test with TP's stock F/W. Same thing. The only thing I haven't done is to go back a 2-3 years which I was told it wasn't recommend over at the ddwrt forum. Ironically, that original version I installed 3 or so years ago didn't have the problem, but my Internet service was only 30Mbps, not 100.

I have the Router (as I do with the Modem & ATA) mounted on a board on the wall with additional 'standoffs below and above the units to help air flow. The PCB is large, larger than many, components are spread out, assuming purposely to aid air flow. I'm always concerned about excessive heat.
The only one that get 'fairly warm' is the Modem. The Router barely gets warm and the processor % I never have seen above 80% and the 'load' level, the *only* time I have seen it above 1.00 is running the Bandwidth Monitor and that isn't continuous. These figures were during testing with openwrt, but I was able to do limited testing with dd-wrt, but due to the issue, it was just that, limited.

Everything has been connected to the Router, the other devices are either off, or in a 'hot standby' mode (if you will). Active, but not really doing anything other than some low level communicating with the associated service servers. (VoIP & TiVo). It's just myself & my wife using her phone playing Scrabble (believe it or not). 

I even went back to Spectrums site to go they their "certified" list of Modems. They have 4 levels, the 400Mpbs is their highest "certified" with entries and this Zoom Modem is there which kinda surprised me.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 7, 2018)

videobruce said:


> I misspoke, I meant the 3rd hop with the 1/2 second peak latency & the 80ms jitter (labeled "var") that my VoIP provider believes is causing my dropped phone calls.


That's likely a router miles away from you (if not hundreds).  You can't fix that.  All you can do is complain up the chain and hopefully whomever owns it will fix it.


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## Bill_Bright (Jan 7, 2018)

I agree, if it is the 3rd hop, there is nothing you can do on your end. If it is consistent, you might call your ISP and see if they can route a different way.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 7, 2018)

I suspect that's not the cause of all your problems though.  Some hops will be slower than others.

DD-WRT might have QoS problems which is why it breaks VOIP.


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## videobruce (Jan 7, 2018)

That 'hop' is 1 mile away, I can walk there easily. I have contacted them more than once, the 3rd time I went to the States PSC and put in a complaint. They have changed the route more than once, with a different IP address for the 2nd & 3rd hops (same building AFAIK) , but the variance & jitter is still there. No, I don't believe that is the cause of this issue, but I believe it is for VoIP, but at least a contributing problem. 
That location has been the HE for the City since the 70'3. That 3th hop is the HE (or was) the HE for some of the suburbs. Two different systems which is another reason their system here is a mess. They ran out of band aids.


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## Bill_Bright (Jan 7, 2018)

A 1/2 second is a long time and not normal. That's why I said, "if it is consistent". But if this is in one of your ISP's facilities, you are at their mercy. 

What does Speedtest.net show for your bandwidth? Check your contract to make sure you are getting what you pay for. If not, contact your ISP and complain. Hopefully, the contract states a minimum and not something vague like “up to” some speed. 

If Speedtest shows you are getting at least the required minimums, then you are not going to convince them they need to make any changes on their end.


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## videobruce (Jan 7, 2018)

Bandwidth tests show fine, that has not been an issue. But, lack of bandwidth isn't a VoIP issue, unless it's not there at all.


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## Bill_Bright (Jan 7, 2018)

Well, voice still uses IP, but nothing like video does. But yeah, it is a routing issue. If your VoIP provider can't help then sorry, but I am at a loss for suggestions.


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## jsfitz54 (Jan 7, 2018)

FordGT90Concept said:


> DD-WRT might have QoS problems which is why it breaks VOIP.



Have you tried above advice?  QoS *On* vs *OFF*?  or DDWRT having a setting that *prioritizes* traffic *dedicated to VOIP*.
Sorry if I missed a specific mention to this.


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## videobruce (Jan 8, 2018)

I would if I could, but I went thru the webui twice and I see no QoS settings. The closest I see is under Firewall-Traffic Rules.


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## jsfitz54 (Jan 8, 2018)

videobruce said:


> I would if I could, but I went thru the webui twice and I see no QoS settings. The closest I see is under Firewall-Traffic Rules.



The picture in POST #1 shows a TAB at the top second row Right, next to Administration:  NAT/QoS.


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## Bill_Bright (Jan 8, 2018)

I meant to say above, "voice still uses _bandwidth_, but nothing like video does."


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## videobruce (Jan 9, 2018)

Yes, that was with dd-wrt, that isn't what I'm running now due issues between that and this router. Openwrt is what has been installed now.
IIRC, I believe the TP-Links stock F/W may have had that option, but that isn't something I ever changed.


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## Solaris17 (Jan 9, 2018)

videobruce said:


> Yes, that was with dd-wrt, that isn't what I'm running now due issues between that and this router. Openwrt is what has been installed now.
> IIRC, I believe the TP-Links stock F/W may have had that option, but that isn't something I ever changed.



Does it have any kind of SIP-ALG enabled? Some firmware enables SIP options and it destroys connectivity to my PBX server.


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## videobruce (Jan 9, 2018)

Not that I  can find. My guess is, it's a command line option since this is very Linux based. The username is 'Root'. 
I'm going to replace this, just not sure which way I will go. It seems to be eithet stay with this name or go with Asus, but I see numerous issues with them so far, but that is another thread.


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## Solaris17 (Jan 9, 2018)

videobruce said:


> The username is 'Root'.



lol


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## jsfitz54 (Jan 10, 2018)

I found this thread messy.  In an attempt to get you better help, may I make the following suggestions:

Perhaps you could edit you first post to say you are looking for help with VOIP drops and QoS parameters with OpenWRT *or* your current flavor choice.
Eliminate the picture of DDWRT and indicate this is a Router (Brand and Model) issue, not a modem issue.

Someone with specific experience with VOIP dropping and OpenWRT may reply.

(I'm using Merlin on an ASUS TM-AC1900 that uses RT-AC68U firmware)  I don't have/use VOIP calling.
http://asuswrt.lostrealm.ca/

Sorry this has been a chore for you.
You also indicated your shopping for a new Router, so perhaps these suggestions are irrelevant now.
Best of luck.


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## Bill_Bright (Jan 10, 2018)

I am very much opposed to you editing your first post. Why? Because thread and forum followers don't get notice of post edits. Therefore, it is much better to simply add a new post to the thread. 

The only time you should go back and edit a post is (1) if no one has replied yet, or (2), it does not change the context of the post.


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## videobruce (Jan 10, 2018)

I can't edit previous posts. The screen shot is of a Routers firmware, not of a Modem so that shouldn't be confusing.
The VoIP issue surfaced into the thread. *It is NOT the reason for the thread.* AFA the VoIP issues, they appear to be gone, but since they were very intermittent it's hard to tell  

What is & has been is the Router re-establishing a Internet connection.  After reading thru a number of other threads and user reviews on Router issues elsewhere, I have found I'm not the only one that has problem re-establishing Internet access, thou usually by the Modem dropping out one way or another. That isn't the case here AFAIK. 
Further reading shows some Routers do have problems with (what I will call) this handshaking.

And yes, the thread has gone OT somewhat, most threads do to one point or another as parallel subjects & questions arise that maybe connected. And for a replacement Router, I'm looking at a TP-Link Archer C7 or a Asus RT-AC66U b1 but there are questions on both.   Now, that is OT.


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## jsfitz54 (Jan 10, 2018)

videobruce said:


> I can't edit previous posts. The screen shot is of a Routers firmware, not of a Modem so that shouldn't be confusing.
> The VoIP issue surfaced into the thread. *It is NOT the reason for the thread.* AFA the VoIP issues, they appear to be gone, but since they were very intermittent it's hard to tell
> 
> What is & has been is the Router re-establishing a Internet connection.  After reading thru a number of other threads and user reviews on Router issues elsewhere, I have found I'm not the only one that has problem re-establishing Internet access, thou usually by the Modem dropping out one way or another. That isn't the case here AFAIK.
> ...



I do realize that the thread started off asking why the handshake process was not taking place between modem and router. ((paraphrased: Why do I have to reboot, shouldn't this happen on its own?)) In post #19 you said you have tried 3 different brand router firmwares, which I took as the impetus for the original post in your trying to get VOIP to stop dropping calls with your new 100Mpbs internet service.

I am unclear at this point why you suspect the router is the trouble (I assume this is not some sort of call center use) and not a faulty modem or provider issue.  Router's do age and I have replaced caps inside them.

In choosing a new router, I would suggest that you get one that has a dual core chip. Perhaps you might look here as a guide:
*https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-reviews*


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## videobruce (Jan 10, 2018)

If the indicator lights & the Status page in the Modem are good and the EventLog shows nothing out of the norm,  why would/should I suspect the Modem?


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## jsfitz54 (Jan 10, 2018)

videobruce said:


> If the indicator lights & the Status page in the Modem are good and the EventLog shows nothing out of the norm,  why would/should I suspect the Modem?



Have you talked to the service provider to see if there are any software updates for the Modem or when they pushed the last update.  Sometimes the reboot is required.  Sometimes they oversell speed plans they can't deliver on. (based on distance from node... )I had this issue with Verizon on DSL at one time and I had cut outs.  Spent a lot of time with service guy who rewired lots and they could not trace it easily due to a intermittent piece of bad hardware at the node that they later replaced, still a very weak signal as I was at the end of the run.

You live in NYC, correct.  Lots of people sending out signals (overcrowded).  Does the VOIP have a control box with Ethernet... Try going from modem to a separate switch that then goes to the VOIP device via hardwire. (don't know anything about your VOIP setup)  Second output line from switch to Router.  Most service providers give you 3 IP's.  So 1 is VOIP and second is Router. You may need to call.

Lots of different directions to go in.  You haven't pinpointed a clear path that it is the router.  What's it age?  Have you taken the lid off and given it a visual inspection for bad caps or overheated areas???


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## videobruce (Jan 10, 2018)

Speed isn't the issue. I have 100/10 that shows as 118/11Mbps on various speed tests including DSLReports. I never saw this before, but they also have a "Buffer Bloat" rating which Spectrum gets a 'D'. It's around 350-400ms. down and around 150ms up.
If there was any Modem F/W updates, there have been enough re-boots, getting that surely wasn't a problem. BTW, this Zoom Modem is "certified" in their 400Mbps tier (their highest that have listings for).

No, not NYC, but the exact opposite end of the state. VoIP right now is not a problem. As to the setup since you asked; the ATA is off of a port on the Router being feed as a client. I am not using it's WAN port purposely. This is only a ATA, not a eMTA (no combo Modem).

As too looking inside the Router, I probably will open it up after I get a replacement, even thou it's less than 3 years old. I do have a older R12 I could fall back on, but I'd rather wait until I get a replacement. (Yes, I have been to SmallNetBuilder, among many other sites.   )


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## jsfitz54 (Jan 10, 2018)

For the real dumb question, you said you had no issues previously on the 30Mbps plan, so why the upgrade and what did you add to the mix over the previous setup? (I keep looking at post #19, just the two of you)  VoIP, TiVo, phones, etc... all run OK but when you turn on the PC you loose only VoIP?
This sounds like it's the VoIP hardware.  Is the PC wired or wireless,(have you tried both ways?) any issues with the PC between when you first connect and when VoIP is interrupted?  What demands are on the PC when this occurs...Netflix?


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## SamirD (Mar 10, 2018)

I had an issue like this with an isp (intermittent 5% packet loss) that they never resolved.  They also overbilled me since I had auto payment on (never again).  I finally had to just find a new isp.  They don't care.

If you have no other isp, you may have to just force them to fix it by terminating your service, waiting a week, and then signing up fresh again so they have to make sure it is working correctly before they leave.  And if it isn't, tell them you don't want it and they can take it with them.


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## videobruce (Mar 10, 2018)

jsfitz54 said:


> For the real dumb question, you said you had no issues previously on the 30Mbps plan, so why the upgrade and what did you add to the mix over the previous setup?


I was paying $60 for the 30Meg service. The 60 meg service is $65. It didn't take long to decide. Of course no one told me the 60meg service was $5 more than I was paying.

Then a month or two later, without telling anyone they bumped the service up to 100meg. I found this out 10+ days later by accident when downloading a bunch of files watching my 'BitMeter' ptogharm that i run at startup, level going way beyond the 60meg I was paying for. Doing some searches, I found out about the across the board increase with Charter/Spectrum/TWC.
Calling Spectrum up, I find out two weeks ago they did this.
One month later I finally get a letter in the mail telling that the service was upgraded. 



SamirD said:


> I finally had to just find a new isp.  They don't care.


Well they cared, when they got a call from the NYS PSC after I filed a complaint against them. *Three hours after I placed the complaint, I received a confirmation e-mail 35 minutes after the e-mail I received a phone call.* Guess who it was? 

Yes, they all of a sudden cared! And *no*, I'm not making any of that up.


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## SamirD (Mar 10, 2018)

That's awesome!  I wish I had access to a government agency that did something about the problem we had back then.

Good to see that at least in NYS there's some consumer protection from bad ISPs.


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## videobruce (Mar 11, 2018)

New York has some of the best consumer protection around among other things.
Unlike most of the south that allows almost anything. There is a reason taxes are less there, you *don't* get what you *don't* pay for.


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## SamirD (Mar 12, 2018)

videobruce said:


> New York has some of the best consumer protection around among other things.
> Unlike most of the south that allows almost anything. There is a reason taxes are less there, you *don't* get what you *don't* pay for.


Agreed.  People sometimes forget that the tax money does actually pay for some very expensive things.  I had no appreciation for how smooth the roads are in the HSV area until I moved and saw elsewhere.


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