# Upgrade 2500k



## FerK (Feb 16, 2018)

Hello, I have a 2500k currently clocked at 4.4 ghz (beyond that, it requires 1.36v or more). I was waiting for Ryzen+ to be released, because the current Ryzen is an upgrade, but probably not big enough for the money. Maybe in the low 1% fps or so (I play on 60hz and that's all I want, 60 steady fps). The problem is not so much the price of the cpu or mb, but the RAM prices (€200 for 16GB).

Now a friend of mine is replacing his 4770k for a 8700k in the next few days, and he has offered it to me at a reduced price (we didn't talk about the price yet). He hasn't overclocked it until a few days ago (4.2ghz at 1.18v) and it shouldn't have any problems.

I don't know how much of an improvement there is, because I tried to look for some comparison and they all are pretty dated. I guess games today may make use of more threads than in the past. I also do some H265 encoding so the extra threads would be useful.

So, taking into account that I could re-use my current RAM (16GB G-Skill 1600 CL9), I think it wouldn't be a bad upgrade. Sell my i5 2500k and the motherboard (how much can I get, 100 euro for both?) and get his 4770k for a little more. I think that keeping his current OC (or getting a little bit more, depending on temperatures) and I'm set for the next couple of years, hopefully by a time in which the RAM prices aren't that crazy.

What do you think? 

Regards.


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## Vario (Feb 16, 2018)

I'd wait until you Spectre/Meltdown hardware level patched intels are being sold and then go for that or AMD Zen+/Zen2.


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## jboydgolfer (Feb 16, 2018)

tell me about it. them ram prices are KILLING me. i bought 16Gb's of DDR3 for 80$ @ microcenter (admittedly a long time ago) , but $150+ for 16Gb's is a kick in the pouch


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## Tatty_One (Feb 16, 2018)

10 - 15% maybe clock for clock?, not sure if it's worth the price when including a motherboard purchase too unless you get a good deal in your sale also, but also look what extra features the new platform will give you over your old.


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## FerK (Feb 16, 2018)

Vario said:


> I'd wait until you Spectre/Meltdown hardware level patched intels are being sold and then go for that or AMD Zen+/Zen2.



So... Next gen right? Meaning end of this year/start of 2019 for... Cannonlake? My problem with Ryzen it's the gaming performance, although I don't think I'm too affected in the short-mid term at least (as I said, I'm not looking for more than 60 fps). Hopefully they improve in Zen+/Zen2.



jboydgolfer said:


> tell me about it. them ram prices are KILLING me. i bought 16Gb's of DDR3 for 80$ @ microcenter (admittedly a long time ago) , but $150+ for 16Gb's is a kick in the pouch



And seems like RAM speed does actually have a big impact in games, at least for Ryzen. 2133 DDR4 are cheaper but the performance loss is probably not worth it.



Tatty_One said:


> 10 - 15% maybe clock for clock?, not sure if it's worth the price when including a motherboard purchase too unless you get a good deal in your sale also, but also look what extra features the new platform will give you over your old.



He would sell me his current motherboard aswell (Gigabyte z87 ud3h). I don't know about the price, he wanted to give it for free to me at first, I said no because although we're friends, I think he should get some money for it (what would be a fair price for both components for 'non-friends'? I'm actually not sure).


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## cucker tarlson (Feb 16, 2018)

I went 3570K 4.7GHz to 4790K 4.4GHz, which is about the same improvement as 2500K 4.4GHz to 4770K 4.2GHz, and it did alleviete all CPU bottlenecks in games that I was experiencing. At that time I was running a 144Hz screen so I really needed it. If you're experiencing GPU usage drops that's be a sweet deal cause it won't cost you much. Although I have to say when I got myself a GTX 1080, that same 4790K was starting to become a bottleneck as well in CPU intensive games so I has to upgrade again, thankfully I got a nice deal on 5775c wiythout having to change the mobo and ram. So if you're looking to upgrade that 1060 to sth faster and get a 144hz display then that 4770K will struggle at some point. If you're staying wth 1060 at 60 fps, 4770K is a good upgrade altough a 4790K would be better since it clocks ~500MHz higher.

Frankly now that I think about it, I'd rather wait for B360 mobos to pair with a new 8400, it's faster than both 4770K and 4790K (check the 1600 vs 8400 review)

https://www.purepc.pl/procesory/tes...d_ryzen_5_1600_wojna_szesciu_rdzeni?page=0,38


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## FerK (Feb 16, 2018)

cucker tarlson said:


> I went 3570K 4.7GHz to 4790K 4.4GHz, which is about the same improvement as 2500K 4.4GHz to 4770K 4.2GHz, and it did alleviete all CPU bottlenecks in games that I was experiencing. At that time I was running a 144Hz screen so I really needed it. If you're experiencing GPU usage drops that's be a sweet deal cause it won't cost you much. Although I have to say when I got myself a GTX 1080, that same 4790K was starting to become a bottleneck as well in CPU intensive games so I has to upgrade again, thankfully I got a nice deal on 5775c wiythout having to change the mobo and ram. So if you're looking to upgrade that 1060 to sth faster and get a 144hz display then that 4770K will struggle at some point. If you're staying wth 1060 at 60 fps, 4770K is a good upgrade altough a 4790K would be better since it clocks ~500MHz higher.
> 
> Frankly now that I think about it, I'd rather wait for B360 mobos to pair with a new 8400, it's faster than both 4770K and 4790K (check the 1600 vs 8400 review)
> 
> https://www.purepc.pl/procesory/tes...d_ryzen_5_1600_wojna_szesciu_rdzeni?page=0,38



Depending on the game. I was this morning playing some Kingdom Come Deliverance (high settings) and, although I only played for 15 minutes, it was actually the GPU the one at 95-99% of usage while the CPU was at about 60-70%. PUBG is the opposite, GPU at 40-50% and CPU 100% at times (with the frame drop when I reach such usage). 

I do not intend of changing my GPU anytime soon (although I said the same thing with my last GPU and I ended up changing it in less than two years), and I won't change my screens unless they both break and even then I'm not interested in 144hz.


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## cucker tarlson (Feb 16, 2018)

Then you need more threadz dude. If your GPU us age is as low as 40-50%, then even 4770K might not fix it. Like I said, 8400 is a heck of a gaming CPU even though it's locked. I am pretty shocked that 2500K completely gives up when pushing a 1060, I had one and it was doing fine with a 980. But that was at 5GHz and most importantly 2133MHz RAM, here's another bottleneck you might wanna do something about.


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## FerK (Feb 16, 2018)

cucker tarlson said:


> Then you need more threadz dude. If your GPU us age is as low as 40-50%, then even 4770K might not fix it. Like I said, 8400 is a heck of a gaming CPU even though it's locked. I am pretty shocked that 2500K completely gives up when pushing a 1060, I had one and it was doing fine with a 980. But that was at 5GHz and most importantly 2133MHz RAM, here's another bottleneck you might wanna do something about.



Well PUBG really isn't the epitome of optimization, I have all set at very low so that's probably why the GPU is only 40-50% usage. I don't play that many games, another one in which my GPU reached 100% usage was Total War Warhammer, for example. I don't think the 2500k is performing that bad to be honest, but sometimes I regret not having picked up a 2600k instead.


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## FreedomEclipse (Feb 16, 2018)

FerK said:


> Well PUBG really isn't the epitome of optimization, I have all set at very low so that's probably why the GPU is only 40-50% usage. I don't play that many games, another one in which my GPU reached 100% usage was Total War Warhammer, for example. I don't think the 2500k is performing that bad to be honest, but sometimes I regret not having picked up a 2600k instead.



2600K wouldn't of made any difference. 

Hyper threading didn't do a whole lot for gaming back then and this is probably still the case. 

I had a 2500k@4.9ghz and i was ripping through every game out there


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## cucker tarlson (Feb 16, 2018)

FreedomEclipse said:


> 2600K wouldn't of made any difference.
> 
> Hyper threading didn't do a whole lot for gaming back then and this is probably still the case.
> 
> I had a 2500k@4.9ghz and i was ripping through every game out there


It does a lot now.


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## The_DriverX (Feb 17, 2018)

As said by a least one other person, you probably just want to hold out till the next gen CPUs, which will have the security issues fixed.


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## Space Lynx (Feb 17, 2018)

The_DriverX said:


> As said by a least one other person, you probably just want to hold out till the next gen CPUs, which will have the security issues fixed.



This is what I am doing. Zen 2 and Ice Lake Intel 8 core 16 thread battle is going to be some beautiful war to watch towards the end of the year. Be patient lads. Zen Refresh in April prob not noteworthy. If 2080 Ti whomps on Vega 2... then I probably will go Ice Lake, but if Vega 2 can stand toe to toe... I'm going all AMD just for nostalgia's sake.


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## Eric3988 (Feb 17, 2018)

Gotta echo the other users here and say hold off until the Spectre/Meltdown issues are resolved. Why buy a product you know is vulnerable?


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 17, 2018)

Wait till After Ryzen+ Hits shelves and has been reviewed for 4-6 months, then decide on an upgrade path.


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## kn00tcn (Feb 17, 2018)

depending on the price (particularly offset by selling sandy), the haswell sounds like a good idea, gain hyperthreading & clockspeed, destroy ME off it since that's the last gen you can do it ('fully')

i dont think ryzen1 dips below 60, but not sure about some of the cpu heavy games, i have definitely been staring at many charts for months making sure averages or whatever sites/youtubes show do not dip below 60, it seems ryzen below 3.4ghz (aka all core load of 1600 & 1700) get awfully close to 60 in far cry primal bench, but a simple overclock to 3.6ghz minimum improves it



Vario said:


> I'd wait until you Spectre/Meltdown hardware level patched intels are being sold and then go for that or AMD Zen+/Zen2.





The_DriverX said:


> As said by a least one other person, you probably just want to hold out till the next gen CPUs, which will have the security issues fixed.





Eric3988 said:


> Gotta echo the other users here and say hold off until the Spectre/Meltdown issues are resolved. Why buy a product you know is vulnerable?


so you all are saying... dont upgrade, stay on sandy unprotected with poor performance while waiting for an upgrade next year 

also nobody has proven that the very next gen is going to be fixed, it might even take a few years as new methods come out, speculative execution is an entire abstract concept not some individual instruction set...

the recent slide i saw from amd today said zen2 is 'design complete', really? were they dealing with mitigations over the past half year or do we have to wait for zen2+?


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## FerK (Feb 17, 2018)

kn00tcn said:


> depending on the price (particularly offset by selling sandy), the haswell sounds like a good idea, gain hyperthreading & clockspeed, destroy ME off it since that's the last gen you can do it ('fully')
> 
> i dont think ryzen1 dips below 60, but not sure about some of the cpu heavy games, i have definitely been staring at many charts for months making sure averages or whatever sites/youtubes show do not dip below 60, it seems ryzen below 3.4ghz (aka all core load of 1600 & 1700) get awfully close to 60 in far cry primal bench, but a simple overclock to 3.6ghz minimum improves it
> 
> ...



Destroy ME? 

About Ryzen, I've been close to get a R5 1600 several times in the past but I wasn't totally sure about the improvement. As I said the low 0,1% and 1% should be way better and that suits my usage, but sometimes I saw the difference with Intel in some other games/benchmarks and didn't pull the trigger. Zen+ with a litography change may achieve a higher clock and the difference would reduce, but I don't think it's going to be a big improvement. And Zen2 means 2020, I've seen it's scheduled for 2019, and most of the times they can't release them on time and are delayed. I'm also not a fan of day1 purchases, I try to wait a few months to see if there is important bugs and how it performs. My 2500k would be 9 years old in 2020 (if it doesn't break), I mean I can put up with a not so great performance but I'm going to struggle a bit I guess.

____________________________

For the users that replied me to wait until Spectre and Meltdown are resolved, in which way this affects me as a consumer? I thought I saw a graph and the performance difference for games was negligible with some patch, it's such a big security threat for regular users?


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## Space Lynx (Feb 17, 2018)

FerK said:


> Destroy ME?
> 
> About Ryzen, I've been close to get a R5 1600 several times in the past but I wasn't totally sure about the improvement. As I said the low 0,1% and 1% should be way better and that suits my usage, but sometimes I saw the difference with Intel in some other games/benchmarks and didn't pull the trigger. Zen+ with a litography change may achieve a higher clock and the difference would reduce, but I don't think it's going to be a big improvement. And Zen2 means 2020, I've seen it's scheduled for 2019, and most of the times they can't release them on time and are delayed. I'm also not a fan of day1 purchases, I try to wait a few months to see if there is important bugs and how it performs. My 2500k would be 9 years old in 2020 (if it doesn't break), I mean I can put up with a not so great performance but I'm going to struggle a bit I guess.
> 
> ...




If you live in the United States, the i7-8700k is $329 free ship no tax at Monoprice (on ebay), and then Newegg has a MSI Z370 SLI PLUS motherboard on sale for $99 free ship no tax. Honestly, it is the best bang for the buck, re-use your old case, PSU, and heatsink (assuming its better than stock cooler), and yeah, RAM is a little pricey, but you can get by with 8GB if you want to budget it out for now. Honestly, it doesn't matter. I actually just ordered all of that right now... the high end MOBO being on sale for $99 is what finally sold me.  

I Spectre and Meltdown I think affect Virtual Machines mostly, which I don't even use, and your right most benches show negligible performance in gaming.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 17, 2018)

FerK said:


> Destroy ME?
> 
> About Ryzen, I've been close to get a R5 1600 several times in the past but I wasn't totally sure about the improvement. As I said the low 0,1% and 1% should be way better and that suits my usage, but sometimes I saw the difference with Intel in some other games/benchmarks and didn't pull the trigger. Zen+ with a litography change may achieve a higher clock and the difference would reduce, but I don't think it's going to be a big improvement. And Zen2 means 2020, I've seen it's scheduled for 2019, and most of the times they can't release them on time and are delayed. I'm also not a fan of day1 purchases, I try to wait a few months to see if there is important bugs and how it performs. My 2500k would be 9 years old in 2020 (if it doesn't break), I mean I can put up with a not so great performance but I'm going to struggle a bit I guess.
> 
> ...



You came here asking for suggestions.
He was giving you a suggestion. On normal users it can allow Data compromise-aka ID theft, loss of bank funds, Taxes. The flaw affects cpus old and new.

March-April Ryzen+ is due out.

Fyi Ryzen was a major leap for AMD. It closed the performance gap and caused Intel to panic to release "8th Gen core i" also it helped lower costs across the board so it was a win win for all consumers no matter the camp. Ryzen+ is a refinement so lower power used, rework/tweaks of innards, bump in clock speeds, better yields vs first gen. Those who buy a 370/350/320 board then buy Ryzen+ can be sent a Kit to update the boards. Agesa Updates to 1st Gen Ryzen have came a long way too. 1600/1700s are popular chips to go with for price/performance.

Right Now Wait for Ryzen+ then decide. Ryzen+ prices will take the place of 1st gen Ryzen thus lowering costs, so you can buy a 1600 for considerably less than now or go for a Ryzen+

AM4 opens up alot of configuration possibilities which is the key to the platform. Think of Super Socket 7 or Socket A then.


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## FerK (Feb 17, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> You came here asking for suggestions.
> He was giving you a suggestion. On normal users it can allow Data compromise-aka ID theft, loss of bank funds, Taxes. The flaw affects cpus old and new.
> 
> March-April Ryzen+ is due out.
> ...



And I appreciate the suggestions, I just didn't know how important the whole Spectre/Meltdown vulnerabilities were to me. Thanks for your answer by the way, I'll wait and see what Zen+ has to offer and then decide. The current Ryzen prices are not that bad, a 1600 is about 180€, down from 216€ the last time I considered buying. However the overall price of all components is higher now because the RAM keeps ramping up its prices, that's a concern.


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## Space Lynx (Feb 17, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> You came here asking for suggestions.
> He was giving you a suggestion. On normal users it can allow Data compromise-aka ID theft, loss of bank funds, Taxes. The flaw affects cpus old and new.
> 
> March-April Ryzen+ is due out.
> ...




Ryzen is still 10 fps behind the 8700k in Min Fps tests across the entire range of games. Also, Ryzen still has some issues with older games. Unless Ryzen+ can fix the min FPS issue, I don't care if they beat 8700k in max FPS at all, but I doubt Ryzen+ even pulls that off. 

I am hoping Ryzen 2 and Vega 2 can go toe to toe with the competition, if so I am going all AMD then. But until then, AMD still has to prove them self to me. Min FPS is very important to me.


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## thebluebumblebee (Feb 17, 2018)

Most likely this would cost you €100.  (assuming your friend would not allow you to pay more than €200 and you can sell the 2500K for €100) No brainer.  Do it.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 17, 2018)

FerK said:


> And I appreciate the suggestions, I just didn't know how important the whole Spectre/Meltdown vulnerabilities were to me. Thanks for your answer by the way, I'll wait and see what Zen+ has to offer and then decide. The current Ryzen prices are not that bad, a 1600 is about 180€, down from 216€ the last time I considered buying. However the overall price of all components is higher now because the RAM keeps ramping up its prices, that's a concern.



I would look for lower cost ram from Adata, Mushkin, crucial and start off with a set and then later get what you really want and sell off the spare kit.


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## Space Lynx (Feb 17, 2018)

thebluebumblebee said:


> Most likely this would cost you €100.  (assuming your friend would not allow you to pay more than €200 and you can sell the 2500K for €100) No brainer.  Do it.




I never even thought about selling my old rig parts. Hmm, good idea. I might put my 2500k/mobo/ram up for sale on TPU here in a few weeks. Won't get much, but every little bit to help offset the cost helps, main reason I did my build this month instead of waiting is because Republicans are dead set to require an online tax for every business before the year is out. Probably won't go into effect until such and such date, but I don't care. Such big items are pricey when it comes to tax, so I bit the bullet and decided to build now. I got lucky on a great deal for RAM thankfully, $340 for 32GB(8x4GB) 3200 14-14-14-31 ram. Ram is a little pricey sure, but honestly for those specs, and how much of a long term investment this is, I can't complain.


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## FerK (Feb 17, 2018)

thebluebumblebee said:


> Most likely this would cost you €100.  (assuming your friend would not allow you to pay more than €200 and you can sell the 2500K for €100) No brainer.  Do it.



I've seen 2500k go for 60-65€ in a reputable used parts website here, the 1155 motherboards have usually some demand. It was only an estimation anyway.



eidairaman1 said:


> I would look for lower cost ram from Adata, Mushkin, crucial and start off with a set and then later get what you really want and sell off the spare kit.



After reading this I went for the lowest pricing store I know (although customer service is not so good) and these are the cheapest 16GB kit available. However for €20 more there is this other kit. I know Ryzen benefits from higher frequencies so I think it would be worth it without actually needing an upgrade in the future although RAM compatibility may be an issue (but I think this has been mostly resolved via AGESA updates). They are still expensive, price evolution from other kit.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 17, 2018)

FerK said:


> I've seen 2500k go for 60-65€ in a reputable used parts website here, the 1155 motherboards have usually some demand. It was only an estimation anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> After reading this I went for the lowest pricing store I know (although customer service is not so good) and these are the cheapest 16GB kit available. However for €20 more there is this other kit. I know Ryzen benefits from higher frequencies so I think it would be worth it without actually needing an upgrade in the future although RAM compatibility may be an issue (but I think this has been mostly resolved via AGESA updates). They are still expensive, price evolution from other kit.



Yeah being international can be troublesome.

Amazon uk ive bought parts from before myself

Heres a list of ram from jun 20 2017, it is subject to have changed already.

https://www.techpowerup.com/234511/amd-broadens-compatibility-list-of-ddr4-memory-for-ryzen

Just a general list of whats been affirmed working by testing.


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## kn00tcn (Feb 23, 2018)

FerK said:


> Destroy ME?


management engine, the back door junk that already had a major security issue in the summer

there's nothing secure about adding more holes/complexity to OSs (win10) & mobos  (ME), just because they probably wont be used by their creators doesnt mean some malware cant appear to utilize them, a hole is a hole



lynx29 said:


> I Spectre and Meltdown I think affect Virtual Machines mostly, which I don't even use, and your right most benches show negligible performance in gaming.





FerK said:


> And I appreciate the suggestions, I just didn't know how important the whole Spectre/Meltdown vulnerabilities were to me.


they affect 'everything' that shouldnt have its private/kernel/admin memory read by any external USER privileged (supposed to be limited) process: your password manager, logged in session in browser or software client (maybe), antivirus, etc... VMs are just extra critical since now every shared web host has big a problem although they've always had these kinds of problems via php for example

see that's the thing, this issue is extremely huge, but we're full of so many other issues already, everything has been broken for years in some form, humans cant write perfect code, so in a way not much has changed... well even in real life, you could not have a lock on your door, does that increase your chance of getting robbed? it only increases if a robber tries opening the door, otherwise if they were already aiming at the window, it makes no difference if the door was patched, the robber also wouldnt know if your door is missing a lock, they are choosing a random set of places to hit that may or may not be yours




FerK said:


> The current Ryzen prices are not that bad, a 1600 is about 180€, down from 216€ the last time I considered buying. However the overall price of all components is higher now because the RAM keeps ramping up its prices, that's a concern.


how were ryzen prices in late november? those were the lowest i've seen here, i almost bought

how bad is used ram price?


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## Toothless (Feb 23, 2018)

I vote yes. 4770k is still a pretty strong chip and should last a good while.


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## FerK (Feb 23, 2018)

kn00tcn said:


> management engine, the back door junk that already had a major security issue in the summer
> 
> there's nothing secure about adding more holes/complexity to OSs (win10) & mobos  (ME), just because they probably wont be used by their creators doesnt mean some malware cant appear to utilize them, a hole is a hole
> 
> ...



So can I remove ME? I just looked in Google and it seems like a bit of a headache.

The prices are lower now than at the end of November here. This is the evolution. Green means it was an special offer, and they were 180-183€. It is now at 179.99€. I don't see much used RAM and they often go a bit pricey. 16GB of Corsair 3000 CL15 was at 180€. I guess the people is not buying too much RAM nowadays with their prices so they don't sell the one they have, and those who do are probably to upgrade from an older build like me.

I'm still waiting because I did a benchmark the other day playing BF1 at ultra, and, well, it didn't go that bad.



> 21-02-2018, 12:37:20 bf1.exe benchmark completed, 42250 frames rendered in 512.078 s
> Average framerate  :   82.5 FPS
> Minimum framerate  :   60.2 FPS
> Maximum framerate  :  138.9 FPS
> ...



Considering I'm playing at 60hz, an average framerate of 82 is not that bad, and in this game my CPU wasn't the deciding factor I think, it was at about 90% of usage while the GPU was at 98-100% so I don't think I could have managed to get much more performance with another CPU, maybe in the 1%/0.1% low.



Toothless said:


> I vote yes. 4770k is still a pretty strong chip and should last a good while.



I already said no to my friend, I can still say yes, he would sell it to me at about 200€ (mb and cpu). But I ran some more tests like the BF1 listed above, and while I think that, despite gaining a bit more performance, since I don't plan on changing the gtx 1060 in a couple of years, I'm not sure the investment is justified. Also I would have to find a buyer for my 2500K, the motherboard would get picked up easily I guess, the chipset is old, but overclocking is allowed.


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## kn00tcn (Feb 23, 2018)

ME is a hassle yes, maybe you can find someone to do it or mod the bios with known settings (because that's all it is, a bios file mod, the hassle comes if you do not have a way to download a bios or recover during a problem, but some mobos have dual bios, brands give you a download, users report in forums/github, so you might only need one or two easy software steps)

bf1 multiplayer? i have witnessed a friend's 2500k stock showing all 4 cores at 95+% each, causing a gtx970 to drop way down to 60% usage, fps inconsistently stuttering down to 40 at certain angles then hitting 60+ on others, as in not a stable 40 but visibly uneven frame pacing, it was a very irritating experience

i always wondered how much an OC can solve that, but it's a fact that modern frostbite engine is best on at least 6 threads

it's also known what type of gains you get from sandy-ivy-haswell-sky-kaby, where haswell is a decent gain over sandy/ivy while sky from haswell is back to the small gain, which makes 8 threaded haswell a great choice that will last a long time at 4ghz, then overclock if needed years later or on certain situations (dont forget, ryzen minimums or per thread heavy games dont really do better than haswell at same clocks, ryzen1 cant really go past 4ghz while haswell can)

in conclusion, 200e for 8thread haswell+z mobo (it is z i hope) with no further money spent is a good choice (great if you sell your old cpu+mobo) due to: price/performance/overclockability/ME removal potential/ram support/win7 support

surely you'd have 'plenty' of money in late 2019 or even late 2020 when prices cool off... or dont due to economic disaster(s), but oh well, if you dont want to or cant spend now, i'd at least be satisfied with haswell

but you should probably run some more tests on games/apps that start showing bad signs on 4 threads, i also want to know this in detail but havent gotten around to researching, actually i think that friend switched to ryzen so maybe i could take his 2500k, but i dont own super new games to test, nor do i have a working gfx card


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## FerK (Feb 23, 2018)

kn00tcn said:


> ME is a hassle yes, maybe you can find someone to do it or mod the bios with known settings (because that's all it is, a bios file mod, the hassle comes if you do not have a way to download a bios or recover during a problem, but some mobos have dual bios, brands give you a download, users report in forums/github, so you might only need one or two easy software steps)
> 
> bf1 multiplayer? i have witnessed a friend's 2500k stock showing all 4 cores at 95+% each, causing a gtx970 to drop way down to 60% usage, fps inconsistently stuttering down to 40 at certain angles then hitting 60+ on others, as in not a stable 40 but visibly uneven frame pacing, it was a very irritating experience
> 
> ...



Nope, BF1 singleplayer. I know there is a loss in performance in multiplayer for obvious reasons, but seemed like BF1 was everywhere in all the benchmark charts so I downloaded it (I don't have it), run a test and uninstalled it. I can't say anything about the multiplayer, I have played it when they released the open beta before launching the game, but at that time I had a R9 290 and, well, the game was beta. I don't remember the settings or the performance, but I think it was not that bad. There is an offer now for BF1, might as well try it (and a 10h tryout I think).

I still can get the 4770K, do you actually think I should? The motherboard was a Z87X-UD3H from Gigabyte. The thing with not getting it was to avoid a new change some years in the future. I don't know how a 4c/8t will perform in 2 years, for example. As of right now, it seems like it's fine for mostly every game but Intel just released their 6c generation and games might start to switch to a more threaded based games. That's why I was more willing to wait for a Ryzen upgrade.

There are very few reviews for modern CPU's that include the 2500k in their charts. I saw one (I don't know if it's allowed to link it) and there is a difference, Watchdogs 2 was bad for the i5 models but other than that, I think the 2500K didn't look so bad.

I don't know what else to try it, I play pubg, I casually play other games (not too many and not too much), but I don't know what else to test. I tested BF1 because its a game I'm going to play sooner or later, I've owned every other version in the past years so I was interested in the performance.


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## kn00tcn (Feb 23, 2018)

do you really think there will be a major problem in only two years where multiple games are using so much cpu specific processing that they need more than 4core8thread just to be playable? is this on a 1060? in an age of dx12/vulkan? what about everyone on the 6c6t or 4c4t coffee lakes or ryzens?

the console refreshes didnt gain massive cpu power & the potential for gpus is underutilized, we see a bit of it with hair/particles/trueaudio, but when will we get to see games with swarms of creatures, i'm still waiting for something like the tech demo shown at the ps4 announcement

if you sell the sandy for 100e, that makes the haswell cost be 100e, that is not very much money at all, you can only get 8gb ram with that, you will have more money in two years (or if you dont, why would you prioritize games at that point, it's not like it's a phenom or pentium)

if you 'casually play' & didnt notice much wrong with 2500k, how could you possibly find overclocked 4770k a problem? in fact now i'm wondering if you should even bother if 2500k is fine for now... it's only due to the offer & if offset by selling that it's cause for serious consideration


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## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Feb 23, 2018)

Vario said:


> I'd wait until you Spectre/Meltdown hardware level patched intels are being sold and then go for that or AMD Zen+/Zen2.


This has next to 0% impact on the consumer base. He doesnt need to worry about spectre or meltdown fixes.


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## John Naylor (Feb 23, 2018)

My son has a 2600k @ 4.8 GHz on air since 2011.   As a college student, he has lotta time for video games, and a job  to pay for an upgrade, just sees no reason to do so.   Most game he plays with his brother... who has a a 6700k and not like it has much effect on their game play.




CrAsHnBuRnXp said:


> This has next to 0% impact on the consumer base. He doesn't need to worry about spectre or meltdown fixes.



I'm still waiting to see an article that shows a problem here... just "much ado about nothing"


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## FerK (Feb 23, 2018)

kn00tcn said:


> do you really think there will be a major problem in only two years where multiple games are using so much cpu specific processing that they need more than 4core8thread just to be playable? is this on a 1060? in an age of dx12/vulkan? what about everyone on the 6c6t or 4c4t coffee lakes or ryzens?
> 
> the console refreshes didnt gain massive cpu power & the potential for gpus is underutilized, we see a bit of it with hair/particles/trueaudio, but when will we get to see games with swarms of creatures, i'm still waiting for something like the tech demo shown at the ps4 announcement
> 
> ...



I don't find it a problem now. But I don't know how much more 'juice' it can extract from the GTX 1060 compared to the 2500k. I usually play with vsync on so the GPU hardly gets to 100%, but the times I have disabled it, it's way more often for the GPU to reach 100% before the CPU. With a higher end GPU, a 4770K would be a great investment, maybe with the 1060 it is too, but probably not so noticeable. I don't know, I may be wrong, I don't know exactly how games work, but if the GPU is already at 100% I don't think putting a more powerful cpu will do much. That's why I was looking at more long term, I've been with the same cpu for seven years now, I'm looking for something similar (well maybe not 7 years, certainly the 2xxx series of Intel has been a success), but four, five... So by the time I have to change the GPU, I don't have to change anything else. Maybe the 4770k will still be strong enough by the time I change the GPU, but that's where I'm doubtful.

Ryzen may not be too different to Haswell in today's gaming performance, but it has a potentially longer lifespan; DDR4, upgrades on the same socket (although this is not what I'm looking for, as stated above), the cores we talked about earlier... So that's my --wrong or not-- reasoning to prefer that to Haswell.


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