# GTX 295 or 2x4890's



## KMS (May 25, 2009)

Ok guys, i'm building a new PC and i need your help on what to get
GTX 295 or two 4890's ?
i've read almost every review out there, some show that 4890 CF is better
other reviews show that GTX 295 is better and i'm torn in the middle 

money is really not an issue since both options almost cost the same in my country
difference is like ... 18$ or something around that, so money is out of the equation

i'll stick with my samsung 23inch monitor so i'll be gaming at 1920x1080
also i'm getting HEC Cougar 1200w, so can this PSU handle two 4890's/GTX 295 ? 
... that's all

i'm leaning just a little bit towards the 4890's CF but i hear they're very noisy
so which is better in terms of performance, heat and noise

thanks in advance


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## hat (May 25, 2009)

Meh... I would go with the 295 since most games are optomized for Nvidia GPUs, plus you get physx (if that means anything to you). That and the 295 is a lot more compact than 2 4890s.


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## n-ster (May 25, 2009)

I would say 4890 would be a better choice (I thought 4970x2 and gtx 295 were close? so wouldn't 4890CF beat the 295?) if you are not using PhysX or folding... but I would get a single 4890 if I were you and wait for the GT 300 and 58xx to come out ( end 09 early 10)

but yea, physX or if you are folding, gtx 295


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## ShadowFold (May 25, 2009)

What do you think  4890's are FAST.


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## Charper2013 (May 25, 2009)

But with the heat and mnoise deal... I say 295..


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## n-ster (May 25, 2009)

depends... he probably has a nicely cooled case (since he has so much $$ ) so yea... maybe a bit noise... but I think he'd prefer 9% more performance over a little less noise...

I would only get 1 and save for GT 300 or the ATi's card


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## LittleLizard (May 25, 2009)

4890 = GTX 275

GTX 275 * 2 = GTX 295

So basically, they like the same, i would go with the gtx 295 as is easier to deal with, less power, more silent and has phsyx.


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## douglatins (May 25, 2009)

Uhm, if you buy two 4890 with no aftermarket coolers, you will get similar performance, but much higher noise. But two of those with aftermarket coolers would go a lot more expensive than a GTX295. And if you get the 295 you get the BEST VGA of the moment, opposed to 2 great ones. Hehe


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## n-ster (May 25, 2009)

but CF scales better than SLI! IMO, get one 4890 or flip a coin if you really want one of the 2 choices... or if you actually mind more heat noise and no PhysX and suckyness of folding over a little bit of performance, then get the GTX 295 or else get the CF


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## Drizzt5 (May 25, 2009)

I'd go with the 4890's. I tend to like 2x cards rather then x2 cards if I want to have multiple gpu's at all.

But either choice will work. You planning on folding? Because then the choice should be obvious.


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## phanbuey (May 25, 2009)

n-ster said:


> but CF scales better than SLI! IMO, get one 4890 or flip a coin if you really want one of the 2 choices... or if you actually mind more heat noise and no PhysX and suckyness of folding over a little bit of performance, then get the GTX 295 or else get the CF



I would like to see where CF scales better than SLI... Most reviews I read have SLI having wider support, less issues, and more frequent driver updates.  Not one review I have ever read said that CF scales better.

Also 295 has slower clocks than a 275, so 275 SLI > 295 by 10%

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-sli,2298.html

+10% to a 295 is identical to 4890 CF performance.


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## AsRock (May 25, 2009)

295 then your more guaranteed performance.  And also takes out any messing about if CF gives you issue's.


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## n-ster (May 25, 2009)

wtv about the scaling lol  I'm not sure if it was CF>SLI or SLI>CF 

how come TH says 4890CF>GTX 295 then?

Yea GTX 275 SLI... is that an option?


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## LittleLizard (May 25, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> I would like to see where CF scales better than SLI... Most reviews I read have SLI having wider support, less issues, and more frequent driver updates.  Not one review I have ever read said that CF scales better.
> 
> Also 295 has slower clocks than a 275, so 275 SLI > 295 by 10%
> 
> ...



well, oc the 295 a little to 275 clocks.


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## phanbuey (May 25, 2009)

n-ster said:


> how come TH says 4890CF>GTX 295 then?



because 4890 = 275, but the 295 is a 'ed set of 275's (with lower clockspeeds)... so 4890's end up being 9% faster and SLI'd 275's are 10% faster than the 295 (lol if you followed my writing you deserve a cookie).


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## n-ster (May 25, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> because 4890 = 275, but the 295 is a 'ed set of 275's (with lower clockspeeds)... so 4890's end up being 9% faster and SLI'd 275's are 10% faster than the 295 (lol if you followed my writing you deserve a cookie).



So basically GTX 275 SLI = 4890 CF... but is that (GTX 275 SLI) an option for him? is he getting an i7 mobo? if so yes it is... if not, he needs a SLI mobo...


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## fire2havoc (May 25, 2009)

I always prefer a single-card setup (to avoid excess noise, heat, and CF issues) so my vote goes to the GTX 295.


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## trt740 (May 25, 2009)

295 gtx


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## enaher (May 25, 2009)

go for the 295 far less hassle, and you gte physix and cuda if its worth something to you


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## KMS (May 25, 2009)

n-ster said:


> but I would get a single 4890 if I were you and wait for the GT 300 and 58xx to come out ( end 09 early 10)



there'll always be something around the corner, so why ever wait?
besides those cards would take like months after the release date until they hit the local markets in my country
and i'm not sure if i could afford one then

but i'm sure of two things
1- i can afford GTX 295 or two 4890's right now
2- i'm really really tired of waiting

and yes i'm getting i7 and GIGABYTE EX58-UD4P 3way SLI/CF
but unfortunately GTX 275 is not an option since we don't have it here yet



Drizzt5 said:


> You planning on folding? Because then the choice should be obvious.



i'm planning on folding either way
i know ATI sucks at folding 
but that shouldn't be the reason not to get 4890's if they were the best choice and perform faster

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the reason i leaned towards 4890's in the first place 
was bcuz i thought they're faster than GTX 295

the main question here :
would the diff be noticeable in most games? especially the demanding ones ?

if there was no noticeable diff and they're both around the same performance then i'll go with GTX 295
(mainly bcuz of the heat/noise thing) + PhysX and for simplicity's sake
and i can see that all of you guys agree that GTX 295 runs cooler and quieter than two 4890's

and thanks guys i really appreciate your help


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## n-ster (May 25, 2009)

at 1920x1080, you'll barely see a difference between 1 4890 and a gtx 295 or CF... get the GTX 295  less (barely) hassle and better for folding... and less space taken... PhysX n Cuda...


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## ShadowFold (May 25, 2009)

How is it "less hassle", it's still a dual GPU card.


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## Assassin48 (May 25, 2009)

if money is no object then go with a triple sli gtx 285 they will beat the sli gtx 295


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## KMS (May 25, 2009)

nope, can't go with triple sli GTX 285
unless i go with Q9550 or Q6600 instead of i7
and in this case it'd bottleneck the hell out of them


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## DaedalusHelios (May 25, 2009)

GTX 295 because its stable with much more mature drivers. GTX 295 has alot of OC headroom and a better cooling solution when tweaked with Rivatuner. 

GTX 295's folding power walks all over 4890's by what..... ten fold? Also Nvidia is the only one with Physx support.

Its pretty clear IMO that a GTX 295 is better, but they are in short supply. They are much more expensive to produce also.

I like ATi but when it comes to high end gaming I achieve the most desired stable results using Nvidia.


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## KMS (May 25, 2009)

yea, it's pretty clear to me now that GTX 295 is my best option
and has more advantages for me so i'm gonna go with it

thank you all for your opinions and i really appreciate the help guys


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## grunt_408 (May 25, 2009)

You can always use the 295 for a physx/cuda card If you ever go the red team lol.


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## DOM (May 25, 2009)

you can get the GTX295 and give me 2x4890's


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## wolf (May 25, 2009)

enjoy the GTX295, i loved mine 

i had 2x4870 before that which didnt compare, 4890's seem to do well, but 295's oc Very well.

ive had mine running at 756/1620/2266 on both cores.... but everyday oc's were just GTX275 clocks, which i am willing to bet any GTX295 will do and then youre at par with the 4890's, with less space, less heat, and more green


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## Binge (May 25, 2009)

I'm up for anything green until ATi makes a card that will play the games correctly without any BS driver crashes, the heat, and the noise.  Paying near to the same price as an NV card and then buying after market cooling, matching/passing the NV card's price, to get the noise and heat down is also unacceptible.


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## Drizzt5 (May 26, 2009)

KMS said:


> i'm planning on folding either way
> i know ATI sucks at folding
> but that shouldn't be the reason not to get 4890's if they were the best choice and perform faster




The 4890's in crossfire are OBVIOUSLY the best performance (faster). I mean... You can't argue with user results and reviews and be taken seriously.

What people in the thread are trying to tell you is that you should go with the gtx 295 because of the little things 

Physx
Cuda
Folding (it stomps the 4890's)
1 card

But the 4890's and the gtx295 are so close together in performance and trade blows with each other in different games... that the gtx295 should be your choice.

*What I would do though:
I would go with 4890's myself though... Because if I go dual GPU at all, I want them on 2 PCB's that are not connected in 2 different PCI-E slots. Physx is not important to me, Cuda is not very important to me. Folding is alright... but I don't care about how much I personally put out. And I don't care about extra work for more performance. But that is me. You decide what you want.*


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## TooFast (May 26, 2009)

go with 2 4890's clocked @1ghz it will eat the gtx295


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## wolf (May 26, 2009)

TooFast said:


> go with 2 4890's clocked @1ghz it will eat the gtx295



take a nibble maybe, but eat one? not at all.

not to mention most wont actually clock stably to 1ghz, not to mentioned the added heat and noise over an already bulky, hot and noisy setup compared to a GTX295.

And hes already made his choice, so 2x4890 may well best the 295 on a technicality, but as you can see here, that hardly counts when 1xGTX295 is better in every way for this user.

my money is on an OC GTX295 besting 48XX anyway.


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## eidairaman1 (May 26, 2009)

now i see why there isnt anything really for the Dual GPU solutions, their cooling designs are too proprietary.


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## Studabaker (May 26, 2009)

Single-PCB 295!


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## eidairaman1 (May 26, 2009)

you look at that card that is on the site now, the dual GPU cards are too proprietary for any 3rd party cooling designs, meaning companies would have to produce 2 separate products to fit the cards properly.


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## tzitzibp (May 26, 2009)

wolf said:


> take a nibble maybe, but eat one? not at all.
> 
> not to mention most wont actually clock stably to 1ghz, not to mentioned the added heat and noise over an already bulky, hot and noisy setup compared to a GTX295.
> 
> ...



you love your OC GTX295 ....... 

and I agree with you, for this user. unless, he decides to WC them...then he can get both stable OC and keep temps low...

but if he can wait, then maybe he can get a 4890 x2, if one is released! If not, then GTX295 is your best bet...


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## Drizzt5 (May 26, 2009)

wolf said:


> <snip>
> 
> not to mention most wont actually clock stably to 1ghz, not to mentioned the added heat and noise over an already bulky, hot and noisy setup compared to a GTX295.
> 
> <snip>


1ghz on stock voltages, if not, you can use the software voltage mods.


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## wolf (May 27, 2009)

Drizzt5 said:


> 1ghz on stock voltages, if not, you can use the software voltage mods.



ill believe it when i see them all hit it, so far from reviews Ive noticed a lot top out between 950 and 1ghz, still whippingly fast tho 

if they could promise 1ghz binning then its a shoe in, but it seems only premium models can hit that so far.


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## yogurt_21 (May 27, 2009)

wolf said:


> ill believe it when i see them all hit it, so far from reviews Ive noticed a lot top out between 950 and 1ghz, still whippingly fast tho
> 
> if they could promise 1ghz binning then its a shoe in, but it seems only premium models can hit that so far.



and those that did come at 1GHZ stock th atomics flew off the shelves in less than 30 minutes. 

but you're missing the fact that 2x4890 at stock vs a gtx295 has already been reviewed here and 4890 crossfire wins 
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/HD_4890_CrossFire/25.html

overclocking each to 1GHZ on the core would only extend that lead. (or being lucky enough to score 2 atomics)

the 295 makes sense as it's a single card solution but it certaintly is not faster stock to stock. and overclocking as always goes both ways.


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## twicksisted (May 27, 2009)

295... simple install of card and drivers.. no fiddling to get crossfire working and thinking it is but its not etc...

though having said that if you like me and like messing around with your pc, then two 4890's in crossfire will look awesome and give you more performance as long as you got a motherboard with 2X pci-e 16X slots 

If you can get the 1ghz core clock versions as my XFX only go's to 975mhz


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## wolf (May 27, 2009)

yogurt_21 said:


> and those that did come at 1GHZ stock th atomics flew off the shelves in less than 30 minutes.
> 
> but you're missing the fact that 2x4890 at stock vs a gtx295 has already been reviewed here and 4890 crossfire wins
> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/HD_4890_CrossFire/25.html
> ...



i agree on all points, and i do realize that stock for stock the 4890's do tend to come ahead overall.

but as established, the 295 is already decided on and is the best solution for this user/setup.

having had 2x4870 in CF i found the GTX295 to be a much more preferable solution physically, it blows out less heat, takes up less space, and needs less pci-e power cables to run. 

bottom line is what you want/need/prerequisites, i sold my GTX295 about a week ago and used the money to buy 2xGTX260 1792mb, so ill see how that goes. I can go that route as i have an SLi board, but i could use the GTX295 on anything with a PCI-E slot, thats alluring all in itself.


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## WOOKZ (May 27, 2009)

THIS MIGHT HELP YOUR DECISION ON GRAPHIC CARD CHOICE



http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/


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## Spaceman Spiff (May 27, 2009)

Haha. If you go to videocardbenchmark.net and check the first chart which is high-end graphics cards my current card is third from the bottom, and my card thats on the way is 3rd from the top. Oh the irony. If my 4890 ever gets here from ewiz....its "departed" San Pablo since the 21st and has't "arrived anywhere yet and its scheduled to be here tomorrow....


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## WOOKZ (May 27, 2009)

ill pray 4 u


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## PlanetCyborg (May 27, 2009)

go with a GTX 285 it will max out pretty much everything and is cheaper


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## Spaceman Spiff (May 27, 2009)

Thanks wookz.


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## ShadowFold (May 27, 2009)

PlanetCyborg said:


> go with a GTX 285 it will max out pretty much everything and is cheaper



Or a 275, since it's the same thing but with less memory and bus. But you can make up for that with some OC'in


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## PlanetCyborg (May 27, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> Or a 275, since it's the same thing but with less memory and bus. But you can make up for that with some OC'in



thats true


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## Scrizz (May 27, 2009)

ppl seem to forget that the 295 is running sli


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## Drizzt5 (May 27, 2009)

You can OC the gtx285 also. Buy an XFX one used off of XS and get the double lifetime warranty imo. (directed at shadowfold)


Personally, I still want either a gtx280 or a new nvidia card that supports voltage mods. I am just biding my time.


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## WOOKZ (May 27, 2009)

http://www.testseek.com/computers/g...c-p-bcc570f0-c2a9-5b3d-19b2-f62984141e98.html 


                                   interesting  card review


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## PlanetCyborg (May 27, 2009)




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## WOOKZ (May 27, 2009)

3 of them in sli would be less ca$h than 2 295 in dual sli and probably because of multipliers and the headroom for oc should be faster trusting u ise 3 x sli board just a thought dont get cranky with my comment people just consider it a bit


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## eidairaman1 (May 28, 2009)

Drizzt5 said:


> You can OC the gtx285 also. Buy an XFX one used off of XS and get the double lifetime warranty imo. (directed at shadowfold)
> 
> 
> Personally, I still want either a gtx280 or a new nvidia card that supports voltage mods. I am just biding my time.



yup, XFX Warranty is also apart of their Radeon parts, Visiontek is the other known Lifetimewarranty parts.


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## Kovoet (Jun 2, 2009)

If you not playing crysis I would definitely go the Ati route and that 295 is a steep hefty price


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jun 2, 2009)

I'd take the 2 4890's.

And PhysX=MEH


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## phanbuey (Jun 2, 2009)

tigger said:


> I'd take the 2 4890's.
> 
> And PhysX=MEH




LOL true true... +1


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jun 3, 2009)

MY personal choice would be the 4890's. People can go back and forth all day which is better and which is worst, but in the end both these setups honestly kick ass and will drop any game out their to it's knees. So it's really going to come down to personal preference.


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## wolf (Jun 3, 2009)

tigger said:


> I'd take the 2 4890's.
> 
> And PhysX=MEH



AMD Physics = MEH from my experiences, oh wait, thats right.

and the trend appearing is that people who don't like or say meh to physx dont have or use it.

stock or light oc models here are all $325-350, and 1ghz models can only be found at $500+

if your keen on 950+ mhz not every card is guaranteed to do this and you'll pay thru the teeth for a pre-overclocked version, especially the XFX BE

there are no overclocked GTX295's and we KNOW that a GTX295 at 275 speeds par's 4890 CF, then you get physx as a bonus. (extremely minimal overclock to get this)

dont shoot yourself in the foot with noise, heat, extra space and extra cabling, all for what the 295 does in one slot, with physx.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jun 3, 2009)

wolf said:


> dont shoot yourself in the foot with noise, heat, extra space and extra cabling, all for what the 295 does in one slot, with physx.



Would be a horrible shot to the foot, curse me I bought 2 awesome videocards, dang that sucks! 

At this point Physx is mostly a bench brag rights, type of thing, I play quiet a bit of games and I haven't come across any that need it yet, although I know Mirror's Edge does.

But I'm sure if he is looking at either of these choices, space, and power consumption aren't the biggest of deals as he shrugged off the 5xxx cards, I would assume he has a good amount of money and probably a pretty killer system otherwise.


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## CAPITAL LETTERS (Jun 3, 2009)

GTX 295's all the way.

i have a freind who has them in SLI and well.........thats just god-like
and i have this other friend who has the 4890's in CF and.....well its just not impressive

even thought they were in SLI i can still imagine the performance of just a single 295. it'll blow your mind


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jun 3, 2009)

CAPITAL LETTERS said:


> GTX 295's all the way.
> 
> i have a freind who has them in SLI and well.........thats just god-like
> and i have this other friend who has the 4890's in CF and.....well its just not impressive
> ...



What you said makes no sense, how was 2x 4890's not impressive? If you can imagine the performance of a single 295, then you are imagining the performance of 2x 4890's (which you have already seen) as they are both close in performance, really with the 4890's getting a slightly lead in anything not involving physx.


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## CAPITAL LETTERS (Jun 3, 2009)

1Kurgan1 said:


> What you said makes no sense, how was 2x 4890's not impressive? If you can imagine the performance of a single 295, then you are imagining the performance of 2x 4890's (which you have already seen) as they are both close in performance, really with the 4890's getting a slightly lead in anything not involving physx.



yeah but like, if you see SLI 295's you'll be all like "O:"
as where you see CF 4890's you'll be all like ""
its just not the same


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jun 3, 2009)

CAPITAL LETTERS said:


> yeah but like, if you see SLI 295's you'll be all like "O:"
> as where you see CF 4890's you'll be all like ""
> its just not the same



295's in SLI is 4 GPU's 2x 4890's in CF is 2x GPU's, a really bad comparison, so you are right it isn't the same. Not to mention thats like a $400+ price difference and the OP is looking at a single 295 vs 2x 4890's, not 2x 295's vs 2x 4890's (would need 4x 4890's for that).


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## KainXS (Jun 3, 2009)

1Kurgan1 said:


> 295's in SLI is 4 GPU's 2x 4890's in CF is 2x GPU's, a really bad comparison, so you are right it isn't the same. Not to mention thats like a $400+ price difference and the OP is looking at a single 295 vs 2x 4890's, not 2x 295's vs 2x 4890's (would need 4x 4890's for that).



yup its really wierd, obviously 4 would be faster than 2


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## ShadowFold (Jun 3, 2009)

CAPITAL LETTERS said:


> yeah but like, if you see SLI 295's you'll be all like "O:"
> as where you see CF 4890's you'll be all like ""
> its just not the same



Totally subjective. I'd much rather have 4890 crossfire then two 295's. Hell, I'd take a 4850 crossfire setup over two 295's.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jun 3, 2009)

KainXS said:


> yup its really wierd, obviously 4 would be faster than 2



 And all this time I thought school was worthless, but it just helped me in a real world situation 2+2 < 1+1!



ShadowFold said:


> Totally subjective. I'd much rather have 4890 crossfire then two 295's. Hell, I'd take a 4850 crossfire setup over two 295's.



What happened to your 275?


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## wolf (Jun 3, 2009)

1Kurgan1 said:


> Would be a horrible shot to the foot, curse me I bought 2 awesome videocards, dang that sucks!
> 
> At this point Physx is mostly a bench brag rights, type of thing, I play quiet a bit of games and I haven't come across any that need it yet, although I know Mirror's Edge does.
> 
> But I'm sure if he is looking at either of these choices, space, and power consumption aren't the biggest of deals as he shrugged off the 5xxx cards, I would assume he has a good amount of money and probably a pretty killer system otherwise.



your choice seems perfect for you, but yeah, its actually been decided, a GTX295 is what he wants, what hes buying, and as the tread says, better suited to his needs.

I sincerely hope you enjoy your setup more than i enjoyed mine, frankly it was horrible.


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## mastrdrver (Jun 3, 2009)

1Kurgan1 said:


> And all this time I thought school was worthless, but it just helped me in a real world situation 2+2 < 1+1!





School math + real world situation = win!


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## SonDa5 (Jun 3, 2009)

HD4890 in Xfire.


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## erocker (Jun 3, 2009)

If you already owned one 4890 I'd say go CrossFire, but since you don't, get the GTX295.  It will save you the extra five seconds of having to put in a second card.  Plus, no matter the brand, a single card will have better compatability with more applications than two cards.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jun 3, 2009)

wolf said:


> your choice seems perfect for you, but yeah, its actually been decided, a GTX295 is what he wants, what hes buying, and as the tread says, better suited to his needs.
> 
> I sincerely hope you enjoy your setup more than i enjoyed mine, frankly it was horrible.



Thats fine, as I stated both choices would be awesome, and I really just can't see how if you had a 4870x2 that it was horrible or if you had 2x 4890's, unless you are running Vantage all day long and feeling very happy about a artificially high CPU score.


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## wolf (Jun 3, 2009)

1Kurgan1 said:


> Thats fine, as I stated both choices would be awesome, and I really just can't see how if you had a 4870x2 that it was horrible or if you had 2x 4890's, unless you are running Vantage all day long and feeling very happy about a artificially high CPU score.



the horribleness can be attributed to a few things.

Temps+noise, it was one or the other, 60-65 degree loads and two hairdryers in the room, or 85+ degree loads at an acceptable level.

Build quality, As i understand it release 4870's were all identical, and boy did the quality shock me. both cards buzzed, somewhat violently, and both had a cheap looking PCB, on which the white lines were printed crooked.

As for gaming, i started with one and added another, to notice largely that only max FPS was increasong and MIN was EXACTLY the same as a single 4870. Some games favour CF unnaturally, just like SLi, and those were pretty good.

My immediate move from 2x4870 512 in CF was a single GTX260 65nm, and my experience was worlds better for it. higher min FPS and lower max, so less variation, and MIN is really what matter to me, i coulnt care about anything over 120 fps, but below 60 shits me.

the GTX295 proved similar to CF, where i could often find myself on single GPU performance, the saving grace here is 1xGT200 with 240 Sp's, in my experiences, is a decent amount more to fall on that a single 48XX chip.

Albeit the 4890 does par a GTX275 on the whole, so really they should perform about the same, so performance aside, my other points are valid i believe. space, heat, noise, build quality. and something imonna throw in for the first time right meow, is drivers. IMO nvidian drivers take a steamy dump on ATi's, but each to their own.


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## eidairaman1 (Jun 3, 2009)

erocker said:


> If you already owned one 4890 I'd say go CrossFire, but since you don't, get the GTX295.  It will save you the extra five seconds of having to put in a second card.  Plus, no matter the brand, a single card will have better compatability with more applications than two cards.



Whats funny is most are saying that now but when NV had SLI as their main selling point for Increased graphics performance, it was the bees knees, very hypocritical on most peoples parts.


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## Mussels (Jun 3, 2009)

erocker said:


> If you already owned one 4890 I'd say go CrossFire, but since you don't, get the GTX295.  It will save you the extra five seconds of having to put in a second card.  Plus, no matter the brand, a single card will have better compatability with more applications than two cards.



not really. the games still need to work with SLI, just like they'd need crossfire support with the ATI cards.


none of the dual GPU cards solve any of the compatibility problems - they still exist.


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## eidairaman1 (Jun 3, 2009)

yup because the Current GPU boards have a SLI/Crossfire Bus Chip Directly onboard.


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## venomousdesigns (Jun 3, 2009)

I'm thinking that 2xSapphire 4890 Toxics (960/1050) will outperform the GTX295 and for cheaper correct?


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## ShiBDiB (Jun 3, 2009)

295...


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## ShiBDiB (Jun 3, 2009)

venomousdesigns said:


> I'm thinking that 2xSapphire 4890 Toxics (960/1050) will outperform the GTX295 and for cheaper correct?



and their $40 more


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## Hayder_Master (Jun 3, 2009)

hat said:


> Meh... I would go with the 295 since most games are optomized for Nvidia GPUs, plus you get physx (if that means anything to you). That and the 295 is a lot more compact than 2 4890s.



but miss something too , DX 10.1



Charper2013 said:


> But with the heat and mnoise deal... I say 295..



why everybody talk about ATI worm up and need to increase the fan speed , ATI card's design for high temp , so 90c is cool for ati isn't coll for nvidia



n-ster said:


> but CF scales better than SLI! IMO, get one 4890 or flip a coin if you really want one of the 2 choices... or if you actually mind more heat noise and no PhysX and suckyness of folding over a little bit of performance, then get the GTX 295 or else get the CF


CF better than SLI = agree 



KMS said:


> nope, can't go with triple sli GTX 285
> unless i go with Q9550 or Q6600 instead of i7
> and in this case it'd bottleneck the hell out of them



triple sli GTX 285 = what for !



wolf said:


> take a nibble maybe, but eat one? not at all.
> 
> not to mention most wont actually clock stably to 1ghz, not to mentioned the added heat and noise over an already bulky, hot and noisy setup compared to a GTX295.
> 
> ...



my friend i agree with GTX 295 is good chose for him but for me i think there is an waste money when you get high end nvidia card sometimes i prefer performance cards on SLI , cuz the high end card is the first one fall when new card's series release , remember these card's 7950 GX2 - 8800 ultra - 9800 GX2 = high end cards with high price when release , and you find people prefer 8800 GT&GTS than 7950 GX2 , 9800 GTX&GTX+ over 8800 ultra , GTX 260 over 9800 GX2 , and GTX 360 over GTX 295



tigger said:


> I'd take the 2 4890's.
> 
> And PhysX=MEH



in fact physics make games look better , but we don't forget ATI havook will be solve the problem 



erocker said:


> If you already owned one 4890 I'd say go CrossFire, but since you don't, get the GTX295.  It will save you the extra five seconds of having to put in a second card.  Plus, no matter the brand, a single card will have better compatability with more applications than two cards.



agree with you , other think i see you change your avatar car , nice new car


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## venomousdesigns (Jun 3, 2009)

Just to throw something else into the equation - what are your thoughts on the 'newish' ASUS 4870x2 Tri Fan card (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-174-AS) compared to say the likes of a GTX295 etc.

I ask this because its currently going for extremely cheap as opposed to me getting 2x4890 Toxics or GTX295.

Is it to late for the 4870x2 and I should just let it die or?


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## h3llb3nd4 (Jun 3, 2009)

GTX 295...
the single slot solution is out now....
and nVidia produces stable drivers (IMO)


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jun 3, 2009)

wolf said:


> the horribleness can be attributed to a few things.
> 
> Temps+noise, it was one or the other, 60-65 degree loads and two hairdryers in the room, or 85+ degree loads at an acceptable level.
> 
> ...



I do got to agree, temps are  I wish I had a card with better cooling to I could push some more volts through it, and my fan speed doesn't seem to give me much luck on temps dropping. 

Sounds like you got bad luck on your card though, as I have had a Asus TOP 4850 and my Diamond 4870x2 and neither card has buzzed and the PCB looks fine. Your switch to a 260 was probably a good choice though as I assume you play at higher resolution, the 512MB in CF, aren't bad, but the 260 with more mem would perform pretty close I bet, and more consistently, but thats how CF/SLI works. But thats also probably part of the issue of your min not increasing is the res combo with only 512mb cards. But a min of 60 is crazy, the human eye isn't going to notice any difference down to the 30's, unless there is a big flux from like 120 to 40 instantly.

What I'm really curious about was I believe Asus's new caps, that card would be really interesting, as the PCB on the 4890 is different from the 4870 anyways, not sure about drivers though, I have had a 9800pro, x850pro, x1950pro, 3650xt, 1x 3870, 2x 3870, 3x 3870, 4850, and 4870x2 and I never had one driver issue with any of these cards. Either way glad to hear the issues, before it just seemed like flaming, all good sorry sounded like you had bad luck


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## wolf (Jun 3, 2009)

1Kurgan1 said:


> I do got to agree, temps are  I wish I had a card with better cooling to I could push some more volts through it, and my fan speed doesn't seem to give me much luck on temps dropping.
> 
> Sounds like you got bad luck on your card though, as I have had a Asus TOP 4850 and my Diamond 4870x2 and neither card has buzzed and the PCB looks fine. Your switch to a 260 was probably a good choice though as I assume you play at higher resolution, the 512MB in CF, aren't bad, but the 260 with more mem would perform pretty close I bet, and more consistently, but thats how CF/SLI works. But thats also probably part of the issue of your min not increasing is the res combo with only 512mb cards. But a min of 60 is crazy, the human eye isn't going to notice any difference down to the 30's, unless there is a big flux from like 120 to 40 instantly.



thanks, and yeah the 260 was great for 1920x1200 with AA, ive even moved back from my GTX295 to GTX260+ 1792mb SLi.

with the FPS difference, its not so much seeing the difference, its feeling it, the mouse responds differently at 30fps than 60, and when its bobbing in between.... that can be hell in TF2 

Yeah I do actually consider myself unlucky with my 2 4870's ive had much MUCH better from ATi before, my Sapphire x1950Pro still ranks as one of the highest quality pcb/components ive seen.

With the 2 4870's i ended up water cooling both, and scrapping the loud stock cooler, but i wasnt able to fit it all back in my case, so i sold one, then sold the latter when i got the 260. I did however use a large component of the stock 4870 cooler to cool the memory and VRM's, worked a charm while i still had the watercooled one.

moral of the story, i go thru way toooo many cards


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## Mussels (Jun 3, 2009)

1kurgan1: you're right on everything except one point. the human eye can see upto 300 FPS, due to "ghost" images. Our mind cant process every frame individually, but it can give us a few miliseconds in advance to recognise whats happening on screen.

100FPS = 100 frames per second = 1 frame ever 10 miliseconds.

30 FPS = 1 frame ever 33.3 miliseconds - now you tell me, if all those CSS gamers out there whine that an extra 20-50ms ping can lag them out, wouldnt seeing the opponent on screen 20ms earlier, be just as important?

My LCD's have a 2ms response time, so that 20ms difference is definately within the realm of possibility of being visually noticeable - its just damned hard to PROVE you saw it.

(my math could have failed here... its 1:30am, PLEASE correct me if its wrong. it should be right, 1000ms to the second and all)


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jun 4, 2009)

I would say it's important if your latency is 0. A good example is in BF BC, shotguns will rewind time. I'll put my knife through their damn head, they pul lthe trigger and I'm dead and they just keep moving along. 

The server lag just can't be made up, because those few ms of lag your having is greater o nthe other end of the line where you cannot make it up.


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## miamimuscleboy (Jun 4, 2009)

4890s beat the 295 in almost every game at 1920x1200 4aa look at the review on this site of othe 4890 CF plus dual gpu cards by nvidia have always had little qurks and flaws EG NOaa on some games etc however the 295 has not has such probs as the 9800gx2. price is around the same but the drivers for CF by ati now are alot better and scale very well. up to you but i would go with ati. Dosent matter really in a few months something twice as fast will be out by both companies and the prices on these will drop to the ground , eyes cant tell past the sync framre rate of your monitor anyway meaning 60 FPS v sncd you dont even need a card this fast 150 fps and 60 fps look the same past a monitor refresh rate


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jun 4, 2009)

miamimuscleboy said:


> eyes cant tell past the sync framre rate of your monitor anyway meaning 60 FPS v sncd you dont even need a card this fast 150 fps and 60 fps look the same past a monitor refresh rate



I knew I was forgetting something.


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## Animalpak (Jun 4, 2009)

Be patient wait for GT300, that card will kill both GTX 295 and 2 x 4890.

And you can have :

-wicked extreme performance ( You have certainly read the rumors about GT300 )
-One GPU
-Less power consumption
-Less heat
-Less noise


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## toyo (Jun 4, 2009)

I also can't see any reason to upgrade (considering you have a decent card) 'till the DirectX 11 stuff hits the stores. Even then, waiting for another 3-6 months for the price drop that'll come is recommended. 
Some games will go with 30 fps, others like FPS may need 45-60 fps, at least in my view. A constant 60 vsync-ed framerate is way better then let's say 80-150 fluctuations.
Anyway, in the end it's all about the benjamins. If they push you out of the house and you have bad dreams 'cos you have so many $$$, knock yourself out and buy, buy, buy... keep nvidia amd and intel happy


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## wolf (Jun 4, 2009)

miamimuscleboy said:


> ...plus dual gpu cards by nvidia have always had little qurks and flaws...



like ATi's are perfect... you lose CF altogether in windowed mode.

im also not a big fan of their dual GPU design where 1 core idles a good 10-20 degrees hotter then the other. Nvidias single PCB GTX295 is a MUCH better design than a 4870X2 imo, and so is the sandwich version.

there will always be these flaws in any Multi GPU setup, it'll take a long time to be perfect.

i agree on waiting for GT300, but if you need a WinZ0r card now, 295 all the way.


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## phanbuey (Jun 4, 2009)

Mussels said:


> 1kurgan1: you're right on everything except one point. the human eye can see upto 300 FPS, due to "ghost" images. Our mind cant process every frame individually, but it can give us a few miliseconds in advance to recognise whats happening on screen.
> 
> 100FPS = 100 frames per second = 1 frame ever 10 miliseconds.
> 
> ...



1) many competitive CSS/CS gamers use CRTs still.  +The human eye can be trained to see faster FPS.

2) Your monitor can display 60FPS if it refreshes at 60Hz... even if your going at 100FPS, your monitor is displaying 60Hz or 60FPS - the ms response has to do with how fast a pixel can change color - which is what causes ghosting, not how many times/sec a screen can show a new image.  Old LCD's could draw new images faster than the pixels on their screen could adjust to the color to display them, which caused ghosting.

3) the pings in CSS have alot to do with the way a shot "registers," and less so with the speed of the display... alot of these guys will see the shot, shoot the opponent in the head, the texture on the opponent's head will register a bullet hole, but then the guy doesn't die, and instead you get shot.  The other player runs around happily with a bullet hole texture on their head.

there is also the teleportation thing, where you shoot a guy and all of a sudden he disappears and reappears 3 inches over to one direction, which is extra annoying, since it is usually simultaneous with death.


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## venomousdesigns (Jun 4, 2009)

wolf said:


> like ATi's are perfect... you lose CF altogether in windowed mode.



ATi still suffers from Crossfire and Windowed Mode problems? Please do go on, I was ABOUT to purchase a 4870x2. I play WoW windowed, and most another applications?


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## Mussels (Jun 4, 2009)

venomousdesigns said:


> ATi still suffers from Crossfire and Windowed Mode problems? Please do go on, I was ABOUT to purchase a 4870x2. I play WoW windowed, and most another applications?



crossfire still works for me in windowed mode, in furmark. I cant test wow as i dont have it.

even if WoW only works in one window... a single 4870 will hammer it. that game aint GPU intensive.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jun 4, 2009)

Animalpak said:


> Be patient wait for GT300, that card will kill both GTX 295 and 2 x 4890.
> 
> And you can have :
> 
> ...



Yeah the next gen cards are going to rock, but I'm waiting on a 58xx card, gonna get rid of my 4870x2 then.



venomousdesigns said:


> ATi still suffers from Crossfire and Windowed Mode problems? Please do go on, I was ABOUT to purchase a 4870x2. I play WoW windowed, and most another applications?



WoW doesn't use CF or SLI, so really I wouldnt suggest any CF/SLI setup for it, you might get 20% usage at max out of the second GPU, just not worth it. I would have sold my 4870x2 by now and just got a 4890 or single 4870 because of this, but prices have dropped and I flat out refuse to just give my beasty videocard away.


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## eidairaman1 (Jun 4, 2009)

Mussels said:


> crossfire still works for me in windowed mode, in furmark. I cant test wow as i dont have it.
> 
> even if WoW only works in one window... a single 4870 will hammer it. that game aint GPU intensive.



well since Wolf doesn't have a credible source of his accusation, it's considered smoke. With you mussels, You Attest to it working actually.


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## venomousdesigns (Jun 4, 2009)

1Kurgan1 said:


> WoW doesn't use CF or SLI, so really I wouldnt suggest any CF/SLI setup for it, you might get 20% usage at max out of the second GPU, just not worth it. I would have sold my 4870x2 by now and just got a 4890 or single 4870 because of this, but prices have dropped and I flat out refuse to just give my beasty videocard away.



But in respect to Crysis, Far Cry 2 and other such games - the 4870x2 has issues with playing Windowed?

I see what you mean about purchasing a single 4890 this close to the next generation cards - however, I can currently purchase a 4870x2 for approx AUD $475 a Sapphire Toxic 4890 is going for approx AUD $375. In that situation?


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## Mussels (Jun 4, 2009)

one thing to watch out for, is just because SLI doesnt work in windowed mode, doesnt mean crossfire doesnt.

While they're similar tech, there are some things they do differently - for example, SLI only worked with a single monitor last time i used it, but i was just playing a game with crossfire working while watching a movie on my secondary (using media keys to play/pause etc )


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## Tatty_One (Jun 4, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> http://i1.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/HD_4890_CrossFire/images/perfrel_1920.gif
> 
> What do you think  4890's are FAST.



But are they as fast as two GTX275's...... we shall find out next week


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jun 4, 2009)

Tatty_One said:


> But are they as fast as two GTX275's...... we shall find out next week



Isnt the 295 pretty much 2x 275's?


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## Tatty_One (Jun 4, 2009)

Mussels said:


> one thing to watch out for, is just because SLI doesnt work in windowed mode, doesnt mean crossfire doesnt.
> 
> While they're similar tech, there are some things they do differently - for example, SLI only worked with a single monitor last time i used it, but i was just playing a game with crossfire working while watching a movie on my secondary (using media keys to play/pause etc )



I am very impressed, you must have a very acute attention span if you can watch a movie and play a game at the same time, unless of course you can romove one eyeball and place it on your desk in front of the monitor showing the movie


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jun 4, 2009)

I always watch things and play games myself, and when I had dual monitors I use to always surf the next and play, I still do now, but it requires alt tabbing out. I get bored and surf or watch something for a few min then go back to gaming. Or look over while I am gaming, I am actually playing WoW atm  oh and doing homework, and posting on SW:TOR forums, they all bore me so I am rotating them.

**EDIT** forgot also trying to figure out a friends hard drive also


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## Tatty_One (Jun 4, 2009)

1Kurgan1 said:


> Isnt the 295 pretty much 2x 275's?



Yes but quite a bit slower in many things, due mainly but not exclusively to the fact that a 295 of course is pumping all that GPU power and memory bandwidth thru a single x16 slot where the SLi has two slots to play with.

reviews show that in some things the 275's are only 3-5% faster but in many upto 15% faster....... the 295 does hold it's own or is better however in resolutions above 19xx mostly.


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## Mussels (Jun 4, 2009)

Tatty_One said:


> I am very impressed, you must have a very acute attention span if you can watch a movie and play a game at the same time, unless of course you can romove one eyeball and place it on your desk in front of the monitor showing the movie



theres always a lull in games at some point or another. Besides, nothing like HD video clips on a 40" screen, a few feet to the side of your main monitor.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jun 4, 2009)

Tatty_One said:


> Yes but quite a bit slower in many things, due mainly but not exclusively to the fact that a 295 of course is pumping all that GPU power and memory bandwidth thru a single x16 slot where the SLi has two slots to play with.
> 
> reviews show that in some things the 275's are only 3-5% faster but in many upto 15% faster....... the 295 does hold it's own or is better however in resolutions above 19xx mostly.



I did testing on my old 3870's from 2 of them on 8x to 2 of them on 16x, and I maybe seen a 1% gain, but those were quiet a bit slower than 275's. 

But also there won't be much of a point in running 2x 275's under 19xx res, just like I feel my 4870x2 is overkill for 1680x1050, but I still love the thing.


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## Mussels (Jun 4, 2009)

i tested my 4870's on a 16x/4x config, and there was less than a 5% difference to 16x/16x.

remember that SLI and crossfire dont add ram - the secondary cards/GPU's/etc dont need much bandwidth, just the primary.


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## Tatty_One (Jun 4, 2009)

Yes but in contrast, we are talking here effectively two GTX275's through one PCI-E slot which in paractice (as opposed to theory) isnt the same as 8x each, these cards are a bit quicker than two HD4870's (as in the 4870x2) plus of course they have the higher memory bus also but I will dig out the review thats saved as a favorite on my home PC when I finish work showing in that scenario just what the differences are between two GTX275's and the 295.


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## alentor (Jun 4, 2009)

lol just by reading the comments u can notice the fight between the red camp and the green camp, lol guys ure hilarious xD


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## Mussels (Jun 4, 2009)

Its always the same.

People choose something for themselves, with whatever tips the balance for them. They then try and come up with more and more reasons to convince themselves, in order to suppress the doubt that maybe they bought the wrong card.

People without fanboi impulses are the people who arent afraid to admit they made a mistake - good luck finding those people. you'll know when you do.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jun 4, 2009)

Personally i always buy the best i can afford,i dont give a crap if its ati or nvidia.


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## btarunr (Jun 4, 2009)

DaedalusHelios said:


> Its pretty clear IMO that a GTX 295 is better, but they are in short supply.



Don't worry, with the single-PCB card coming out in a few™ days, the stocks will get healthy.


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## venomousdesigns (Jun 4, 2009)

Won't lower prices will it?


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## DaedalusHelios (Jun 4, 2009)

btarunr said:


> Don't worry, with the single-PCB card coming out in a few™ days, the stocks will get healthy.



I didn't know that. Thank you for the info.


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## Tatty_One (Jun 4, 2009)

alentor said:


> lol just by reading the comments u can notice the fight between the red camp and the green camp, lol guys ure hilarious xD



Check my video card specs   The good thing is though, if you shop around you can get two GTX275's cheaper than a 295 which has to be good!  

I am also however, as well as getting the 2nd GTX275, getting 2 HD4890's to test although I am not paying for them, call it a loan for a week which is why I mentioned earlier about the "face off", it's irrelivent to me which set up wins, I just dont like clouded hype of the capabilities of any piece of hardware irrespective of what brand it is.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jun 5, 2009)

alentor said:


> lol just by reading the comments u can notice the fight between the red camp and the green camp, lol guys ure hilarious xD



This thread has turned out top be pretty civil though, it's always nice to have a debate type argument where no one pops their top. Then you can actually get some good info out of it, if you are level headed enough to actually look into what others are saying.

I am an AMD/ATi kind of guy, but I try to stay as on the fence as I can and see what can be learned.


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## yogurt_21 (Jun 5, 2009)

Tatty_One said:


> I am very impressed, you must have a very acute attention span if you can watch a movie and play a game at the same time, unless of course you can romove one eyeball and place it on your desk in front of the monitor showing the movie



like Aughra from dark crystal?


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## Tatty_One (Jun 5, 2009)

yogurt_21 said:


> like Aughra from dark crystal?
> http://www.bookmice.net/darkchilde/dark/aughra.jpg
> http://bassthink.tripod.com/TheDarkCrystal/aughras_eye.JPG



Where did you get a picture of my wife?


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jun 5, 2009)

Tatty_One said:


> Where did you get a picture of my wife?



You got a real looker there


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## trt740 (Jun 5, 2009)

Tatty_One said:


> Where did you get a picture of my wife?



her nipples are hard damn I'm excited


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## Tatty_One (Jun 5, 2009)

trt740 said:


> her nipples are hard damn I'm excited



Your an ex cop so you need all the excitement you can get   Fighting in the streets is good but in a fully fledged war you get to kill so many more  ........ sorry havent taken my tablet yet!


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## bboy-mass (Jun 9, 2009)

I've got the Gainwood GTX295 overclocked:

666x1380x1100 OVERCLOCK with fan 70% while gaming - auto at the desktop 

and its the dogs dude.

I'm getting 180fps on max with rFactor 5xAA (6xaa dont work .lol) 1920x1200 rez

Grid (60fps) in car view with trackir 5 - locked with v-sync on (88+ vsync off) 1920x1200 rez

Crysis Warhead 25-45fps 1920x1200 rez

I used a 4870x2 in my rig and the noise and heat was just a joke. Swapped it over for the GTX295 and BINGO.

If I was being silly and flush, I may even jump to another GTX295 but only if I jump to 30in or TripleHead2GO with 3x22in screens to keep those important frames in the 60fps mark for my simm racing.

But never quad 4870x2, toooo loud man.

Go for it.

R.
Mass


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## Tatty_One (Jun 9, 2009)

I have changed my plans, not going for the GTX275 in SLi, I am going to keep my existing GTX275 for my Yorkfield rig, sell my 4870x2 and buy a single HD4890 Atomic, one card is enuff for my needs, my ePenis wilted years ago!


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## cowie (Jun 9, 2009)

your not missing much tatty about the same as a 295 or cf4890's


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## venomousdesigns (Jun 10, 2009)

Tatty_One said:


> I have changed my plans, not going for the GTX275 in SLi, I am going to keep my existing GTX275 for my Yorkfield rig, sell my 4870x2 and buy a single HD4890 Atomic, one card is enuff for my needs, my ePenis wilted years ago!



And ur getting this Atomic from?


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## Tatty_One (Jun 10, 2009)

venomousdesigns said:


> And ur getting this Atomic from?



UK, I have a supplier   If your struggling to find one, get the Toxic, it's clocked at 960mhz, has the same cooler and will overclock beyond 1000mhz plus you will save yourself some cash.


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## venomousdesigns (Jun 10, 2009)

Tatty_One said:


> UK, I have a supplier   If your struggling to find one, get the Toxic, it's clocked at 960mhz, has the same cooler and will overclock beyond 1000mhz plus you will save yourself some cash.



And your still grabbing an Atomic why then haha? Its the same card, just binned higher - Rev has one in the AMD/ATI forums and can't seem to reach above 1070MHz on Core stable, the Toxic will do the same.

I don't see the justification in $$$ - unless u can point something out haha


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## Tatty_One (Jun 10, 2009)

venomousdesigns said:


> And your still grabbing an Atomic why then haha? Its the same card, just binned higher - Rev has one in the AMD/ATI forums and can't seem to reach above 1070MHz on Core stable, the Toxic will do the same.
> 
> I don't see the justification in $$$ - unless u can point something out haha



Lol, I am actually going to pay LESS for the Atomic (£195) which is the only reason. If I could get the Toxic from elsewhere for less then I would probably. I have now read 5 reviews on each card, the best overclock for the Atomic was 1050-1060, the average overclock for the Toxic is 1020 so your friend is doing well, only one out of the 5 got the toxic to 1040.

Edit:

I forgot to mention, from what I have read, the XFX Black edition tends to overclock marginally better, it too stocks at 1000mhz, is cheaper and one or two have hit 1085mhz with them, trouble is they have the stock cooler with the fan speeds rampt up, I already have 2 vacum cleaners in the house, I dont really want 3 though.


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