# MY FIRST "GAMING PC"



## LeonVolcove (Jan 10, 2014)

Hello guys

I was looking for advice to build my first gaming pc

I browsing the internet and i found  AMD APU Kaveri

is it good?how much it perform?

for budget i have $700(monitor + OS included)

I gaming for 1080p medium setting acceptable for me not really a hardcore gamer

light multitasking(downloading film or music while gaming)

Any advice will help

Thanks You and sorry for my bad english


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## Frick (Jan 10, 2014)

Kaveri is not out yet, so we don't know. Battlefield 4 will be bundled with it though, so they think highly of it. I read somewhere that it is supposed to run BF4 on 1080p on medium settings just fine. But again, it's not out yet. I have no idea when it comes out.


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## TRWOV (Jan 10, 2014)

A10-7700K and A10-7850K will hit the streets on Jan 14th. DDR3-2133 memory will be the standard.

The graphics performance would be similar to a HD7750 DDR3 since the A10s are going to have 512 GCN cores (same as HD7750).

BTW, where are you from? $700 will get you different things depending where you live.


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## HD64G (Jan 10, 2014)

Yes, Kaveri may be a nice choice for you, but you need to wait 1 or 2 weeks. Price will be nice too, so with $700 you will have a sensible build for the kind of jobs you want it to handle.


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## Rowsol (Jan 10, 2014)

For the price http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0095VP8D4/?tag=tec06d-20 can't be beat.

The upcoming one is worth waiting for though to see what kinda price/performance it gets.


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## LeonVolcove (Jan 10, 2014)

TRWOV said:


> A10-7700K and A10-7850K will hit the streets on Jan 14th. DDR3-2133 memory will be the standard.
> 
> The graphics performance would be similar to a HD7750 DDR3 since the A10s are going to have 512 GCN cores (same as HD7750).
> 
> BTW, where are you from? $700 will get you different things depending where you live.



I live in Indonesia and i plan to use that PC for 4-5 work and game maybe i will add a add-on graphics later if enough money

I dont FPS much, MMORGH and RTS that i play mostly.

Thanks for the quick reply, another advice could be very useful


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## LeonVolcove (Jan 10, 2014)

I saw in the older post that APU will benefit for Higher memory frequency 1866MHz or higher.  is that mean i have to overclock that memory, i never done the overclock before, is it not dangerous?will kill the my memory if i do that?or the processor too?


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## JunkBear (Jan 10, 2014)

Indonesia tends to be hotter in temperature so you have to be sure that your cooling is sufficient. But seriously i don't think you really need overclock for what you plan to do with this setup. Just buy the highest frequency of memory you can put on the motherboard stock witthout overclockingand you will be good to go. What operation system do you plan using?


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## happita (Jan 10, 2014)

Saw this at Newegg earlier today.


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## LeonVolcove (Jan 10, 2014)

JunkBear said:


> Indonesia tends to be hotter in temperature so you have to be sure that your cooling is sufficient. But seriously i don't think you really need overclock for what you plan to do with this setup. Just buy the highest frequency of memory you can put on the motherboard stock witthout overclockingand you will be good to go. What operation system do you plan using?



Win 7 or Win 8.1

I Heard that win 8.1 fixed a lot of bug and error in win 8

For cooling, do you my house or CPU cooling?
If CPU Cooling maybe aftermarket cooling from Thermaltake or Corsair would be suffice 

I have to admit the temperature in my house is quite hot 27" C or 28" C even with my LG Air Conditioner on


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## JunkBear (Jan 10, 2014)

One thing I learned is that intake fans just push air in the case without proper exhaust. But if you put good exhaust fans then the intake will be made naturally through vents. So focus on putting a bigger fan on cpu and 2 exhaust fans.


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## LeonVolcove (Jan 10, 2014)

Now that Procie is ready i have to shop for another component

Motherboard : (Kaveri socket will be FM2+)
Ram(Memory) : (Junkbear said that Highest memory frequency, all brand considerable)
Storage : (my friend said that SSD for OS booting and normal HDD for data and game,)
Case : (i dont know that case is really needed)
Graphics : Intergrated
PSU : 450watt enough? or 600?
Monitor : 1920 x 1080 LED 20" or higher (all brand considerable)
CPU Cooling : aftermarket Corsair or Thermaltake
Speaker : already have
Keyboard and Mouse : already have

any suggestion, advice or critics for my component above?


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## xpert7 (Jan 10, 2014)

LeonVolcove said:


> Win 7 or Win 8.1
> 
> I Heard that win 8.1 fixed a lot of bug and error in win 8
> 
> ...



Windows 7 all the way 8.1 is too hardware intensive


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## xpert7 (Jan 10, 2014)

LeonVolcove said:


> Now that Procie is ready i have to shop for another component
> 
> Motherboard : (Kaveri socket will be FM2+)
> Ram(Memory) : (Junkbear said that Highest memory frequency, all brand considerable)
> ...





I would put SSD and HDD the other way around or consider a PCI disk if you want mental speeds.

Always go for the highest continuous wattage PSU, a good make will typically be continuous and not peak

case matters at high end for cooling


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## JunkBear (Jan 10, 2014)

If you dont mind speed but need to keep temperatures lower just buy an adapter for 2.5" laptop hdd to 3.5" hdd then put a laptop hdd inside. Better...if you get a used but perfect high performance laptop  hdd then put it.


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## XSI (Jan 10, 2014)

Monitor, buy bigger 23-24", 
cooler master 212 evo, cheap and good cooler
8,1 isn't hardware intensive, you should see in which system i have it...8 years old laptop.
psu ~500 will be fine even with discrete graphics card, just don't buy a cheap no name psu.
ram in your case look for 1866, 2133, 2400 and look for best prices.


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## Dent1 (Jan 10, 2014)

LeonVolcove said:


> Now that Procie is ready i have to shop for another component
> 
> Motherboard : (Kaveri socket will be FM2+)
> Ram(Memory) : (Junkbear said that Highest memory frequency, all brand considerable)
> ...



You should forget this APU business at your resolution, you have the budget for a dedicated video card and an FX 6300.


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## Constantine Yevseyev (Jan 10, 2014)

Consider choosing Windows 8.1 over Windows 7, as long as any AMD Bulldozer family CPU requires it to make core parking and lower power states happen. Read more here: Windows 8: Does AMD's Bulldozer Architecture Benefit? Sometimes it's also cheaper (if you can find OEM Single Language letter box in any local PC store). It doesn't make any sense to buy DirectX 11.2 compatible hardware and limit it by DirectX 11.0, after all.

SSD's too pricy for your build, just forget about it. You won't find anything cheaper than 80 USD (1 000 000 IDR).
450 Watts would be more than enough for any APU-based system. Just find something from Chieftec or FSP marked as "80 Plus Standard", "80 Plus Certified" or "80 Plus Bronze". Even 300 Watts would be enough if you're not planning to buy discrete GPU later. 400+ Watts of an 80 Plus certified PSU will allow you to install any low-end GPU (such as AMD R7 260X or NVIDIA GeForce GTX 650).

Any cheap motherboard based on A55 or A78 chipset will do. Consider buying something like MSI A78M-E35 or ASUS A55BM-E. They should cost about 60 USD (730 000 IDR).
Case... Zalman has some great cheap stuff, ZM-T1/ZM-T2/ZM-T3/ZM-T4 they called. Everyone of them is about 32 USD (366 000 IDR).
Buy any 8 GB DDR3-2133 RAM module from Crucail, GeiL or Corsair - it would be a lot cheaper than 2 x 4 GB option and only 3-5% slower.
To be honest, I'd personally buy something like Intel Pentium G3420 + AMD Radeon HD 7750 w/ GDDR5 memory/AMD Radeon HD R7 250 w/ GDDR5 memory. OFC it will require some extra cash (A10-7xxx might cost about 150 USD while the alternative build is something like 160), but it will easily outperform AMD's solution by about 20% in every single game. The mobo will actually cost a bit less (budget H81 solutions will save you about 5 to 8 bucks, MSI H81M-E33 is a good example). The RAM will also cost a lot less, because every single 8 GB DDR3-1600 module will do. Just think about it before making any decision.


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## Frick (Jan 10, 2014)

xpert7 said:


> Windows 7 all the way 8.1 is too hardware intensive



Naah, it's exactly the same. Windows 8 is probably a tiny bit lighter even.


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## xpert7 (Jan 10, 2014)

Frick said:


> Naah, it's exactly the same. Windows 8 is probably a tiny bit lighter even.



Speaking from the forensic standpoint and part of the computing society (have to give clear advise on the best) windows 7 is better at hardware management. Windows 8 is more about showmanship than usability.

We are all given the latest releases early and they do not work with modern games well.

Within a week of windows 8 i DBANed the drives and reloaded 7. Maybe when 9 comes ill change


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## xpert7 (Jan 10, 2014)

Constantine Yevseyev said:


> Consider choosing Windows 8.1 over Windows 7, as long as any AMD Bulldozer family CPU requires it to make core parking and lower power states happen. Read more here: Windows 8: Does AMD's Bulldozer Architecture Benefit? Sometimes it's also cheaper (if you can find OEM Single Language letter box in any local PC store). It doesn't make any sense to buy DirectX 11.2 compatible hardware and limit it by DirectX 11.0, after all.
> 
> SSD's too pricy for your build, just forget about it. You won't find anything cheaper than 80 USD (1 000 000 IDR).
> 450 Watts would be more than enough for any APU-based system. Just find something from Chieftec or FSP marked as "80 Plus Standard", "80 Plus Certified" or "80 Plus Bronze". Even 300 Watts would be enough if you're not planning to buy discrete GPU later. 400+ Watts of an 80 Plus certified PSU will allow you to install any low-end GPU (such as AMD R7 260X or NVIDIA GeForce GTX 650).
> ...



As this is supposed to be a gaming pc i would disagree with most of the above. always go for the best you can, the setup i am running only cost around £1000, granted i am about to spend another £300/500 but thats choice not necessity


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## Dent1 (Jan 10, 2014)

xpert7 said:


> As this is supposed to be a gaming pc i would disagree with most of the above. always go for the best you can, the setup i am running only cost around £1000, granted i am about to spend another £300/500 but thats choice not necessity



Keep in mind the OP's budget is only $700 USD, that is only about £425 GBP.

£425 v £1000. There is a big difference.


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## Constantine Yevseyev (Jan 10, 2014)

xpert7 said:


> As this is supposed to be a gaming pc i would disagree with most of the above. always go for the best you can, the setup i am running only cost around £1000, granted i am about to spend another £300/500 but thats choice not necessity


Make a better offer for 700 USD (including display and OS).


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## LeonVolcove (Jan 10, 2014)

Constantine Yevseyev said:


> Consider choosing Windows 8.1 over Windows 7, as long as any AMD Bulldozer family CPU requires it to make core parking and lower power states happen. Read more here: Windows 8: Does AMD's Bulldozer Architecture Benefit? Sometimes it's also cheaper (if you can find OEM Single Language letter box in any local PC store). It doesn't make any sense to buy DirectX 11.2 compatible hardware and limit it by DirectX 11.0, after all.
> 
> SSD's too pricy for your build, just forget about it. You won't find anything cheaper than 80 USD (1 000 000 IDR).
> 450 Watts would be more than enough for any APU-based system. Just find something from Chieftec or FSP marked as "80 Plus Standard", "80 Plus Certified" or "80 Plus Bronze". Even 300 Watts would be enough if you're not planning to buy discrete GPU later. 400+ Watts of an 80 Plus certified PSU will allow you to install any low-end GPU (such as AMD R7 260X or NVIDIA GeForce GTX 650).
> ...



1. Okay win 8.1 noted, maybe i will check it before i buy it
2. SSD too price also noted, so in other word i have to buy secondary HDD
3. Thanks god 450watt enough
4. Is cheap motherboard will help for long term?
5. Zalman case(never heard of it before) i will check it too
6. 8 GB 1 stick or 2 stick of 4 GB?

Thats great reply thanks, but i have to turn down for intel processor offer.

I know they built great processor, but i really have bad experience with them

I want to share it but it will be long story

Thanks again for the advice, but i must say i will avoid intel.


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## Frick (Jan 10, 2014)

xpert7 said:


> Speaking from the forensic standpoint and part of the computing society (have to give clear advise on the best) windows 7 is better at hardware management. Windows 8 is more about showmanship than usability.
> 
> We are all given the latest releases early and they do not work with modern games well.
> 
> Within a week of windows 8 i DBANed the drives and reloaded 7. Maybe when 9 comes ill change



No it is not, and the looks have nothing to do with hardware management. The estetics comes down to personal preference (I rather like it actually), and you are correct when you say we have to give clear advise. Which is why I'm saying Windows 8 is not more demanding than Windows 7. It just isn't. Windows 8 is even lighter than Windows 7 if Win7 has Aero Glass turned on.


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## LeonVolcove (Jan 10, 2014)

Frick said:


> No it is not, and the looks have nothing to do with hardware management. The estetics comes down to personal preference (I rather like it actually), and you are correct when you say we have to give clear advise. Which is why I'm saying Windows 8 is not more demanding than Windows 7. It just isn't. Windows 8 is even lighter than Windows 7 if Win7 has Aero Glass turned on.



Windows 8 is lighter that Win 7? really?many review across the web saying that they heavy, memory hunger or lagging(although i never used it, so i cant comment much or dare to comment)


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## LeonVolcove (Jan 10, 2014)

happita said:


> View attachment 53843
> 
> Saw this at Newegg earlier today.



is worldwide or just selected country like US UK or Europe?


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## Frick (Jan 10, 2014)

LeonVolcove said:


> Windows 8 is lighter that Win 7? really?many review across the web saying that they heavy, memory hunger or lagging(although i never used it, so i cant comment much or dare to comment)



On older hardware it is, if Aero Glass is turned on in Windows 7. Windows 8 does not have that, which is why the desktop part looks like a flat Windows 7. On modern hardware the difference is zero, unless you have problems.

The UI is sort of jarring though, or rather, that you're thrown between Metro and desktop mode. That is the biggest problem imo. If you really can't stand the UI there's always Classicshell.


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## Chetkigaming (Jan 10, 2014)

Maybe you should stay on your pc but with some gtx 780 ti for this money, 100% its would be better than build new one


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## LeonVolcove (Jan 10, 2014)

Chetkigaming said:


> Maybe you should stay on your pc but with some gtx 780 ti for this money, 100% its would be better than build new one



sorry but i never had a pc before, just a normal laptop from boss for working.


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## Chetkigaming (Jan 10, 2014)

Try to find some cheapest used pc with good cpu without gpu and buy some gtx 780 for 4xx $ + monitor, and find some friends with windows)) it's a very nice way to go. You`ll get one of the best gaming performance for this price


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## de.das.dude (Jan 10, 2014)

xpert7 said:


> Windows 7 all the way 8.1 is too hardware intensive


*No

this is a build i would suggest
AMD FX-6300
Asrock 970 Extreme 4
Corsair Vengeance 2x4GB 1600MHz
Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo CPU cooler (i am in india and i can say this is more than enough. summer, my room temps go over 40C)
any company AMD HD7790 or R7 260 (both are same card, but the 7790 is usually cheaper)
2TB WD20EZEX <-WD 2terabyte blue hdd.
Asus DVD Drive
Dell 2240L IPS LED Screen, 1080p.
Corsair GS600 PSU*

With the money left over you can buy speakers, and keyboard mouse to your liking.
for keyboard mouse, try the logitech K200(keyboard) and Logitech (G400)

since you play mostly MMORPG , there is no need for a expensive GPU, as MMORPG Graphcis are pretty standard. and in any case the 7790 can easily play the challenging titles pretty well.


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## Dent1 (Jan 10, 2014)

LeonVolcove said:


> 1. Okay win 8.1 noted, maybe i will check it before i buy it
> 2. SSD too price also noted, so in other word i have to buy secondary HDD
> 3. Thanks god 450watt enough
> 4. Is cheap motherboard will help for long term?
> ...




1 stick of 8GB so you have room for expansion in the future. But it really doesn't matter.

Cheap motherboard is fine, if you're not overclocking the cheaper the better as you won't need the features.

SSD isn't in your budget. quicker boot time isn't enough reason to justify it anyways, snapper navigation within the OS. Maybe.  Gaming wise it won't benefit you unless you install the game directly onto the SSD which requires even more money.

Case isn't a big deal, its an area which you should spend one of the least on as it won't add performance, especially on your budget. Just make sure it has enough space inside for at least 120mm or larger fans.

Intel make good CPUs, we've all had bad experiences it shouldn't cloud your judgement. If Intel gives you better performance for your money that's all that matters. If you're going AMD I would personally get the FX Piledriver X6.


Whether Windows 7 or 8, it really doesn't matter. It isn't going to make any difference to your gaming experience. Buy whichever is cheapest and offers best value for money in your country.

Video card I'd get a dedicates one, at least R9 270 if you don't want to be disappointed. (HD7790 or R7 260 level of card for temporary solution with expectation to upgrade it very soon)


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## Vario (Jan 10, 2014)

I'd run a haswell 1150 i3 or a pentium dual core g3220 with a 7850.  2 cores is probably enough, the single threaded performance is what he wants with a budget gamer.  These things run like $60 USD, then you can throw more money into graphics, ram etc.  A few years later buy an i7 for pennies and throw it in.


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 10, 2014)

core i5 or higher


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## LeonVolcove (Jan 11, 2014)

Thank you for all advice, critics and suggestion for my first build, i will still hold my money until official Kaveri benchmark is out and reviewed(from Guru3d, Hexus, Kitguru, and many others). If turn out to be what i expected or better, i will buy it without second thought. If it worse i will think a better alternative like many of you suggest

Thanks Again.

Good day and good morning.


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 11, 2014)

Just remember the Comparison between Trinity and Richland (5800,6800)


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## Blue-Knight (Jan 11, 2014)

TRWOV said:


> $700 will get you different things depending where you live.


Where I live you build a super low-end PC (pentium (if you are lucky) and below, forget core-ix) and be happy! And that's if you don't need to buy monitor, of course.

Otherwise, you may be looking for an ITX PC.



LeonVolcove said:


> Windows 8 is lighter that Win 7?


I never used Windows 8. I just know that performance on Windows XP 64-bit is much greater than on Windows 7 64-bit.

Maybe because Windows 7 needs much more CPU power to maintain all the unnecessary things running.


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## Constantine Yevseyev (Jan 11, 2014)

LeonVolcove said:


> 1. Okay win 8.1 noted, maybe i will check it before i buy it
> 2. SSD too price also noted, so in other word i have to buy secondary HDD
> 3. Thanks god 450watt enough
> 4. Is cheap motherboard will help for long term?
> ...


4. You mean, do cheap motherboards drastically differ from middle-end ones in terms of lifespan and/or ability to struggle trough heavy load? No, they actually don't. Those three MB's I've mentioned are great for your tasks - you can see that they have the same electric components in their base as the higher class ones. However, you'll probably be more limited in overclocking and expanding abilities, but these are only two drawbacks.
6. Usually, get 1 stick of 8 GB, unless you can find cheaper 2 x 4 GB sticks with comparable parameters.
If you want to share your story, then go for it. It might just be some kind of a misunderstanding and/or delusion, so we'll be able to dispel them and you'll greatly benefit from it.


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## Pill Monster (Jan 11, 2014)

Don't use just 1 stick of RAM or you'll be running in single channel mode....


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## Constantine Yevseyev (Jan 11, 2014)

Pill Monster said:


> Don't use just 1 stick of RAM or you'll be running in single channel mode....


Boo! What a disaster.
We're talking about 2 or 3 percents difference in synthetic benchmarks and about 20 percent difference in price. I hardly doubt it's worth it even for a machine that uses system memory as VRAM, because I used to have one (AMD 785G), and all real-life apps used to run equally on both 2 x 1 GB (PC3-12800 CL10) and 2 GB (PC3-10600 CL9).


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## Dent1 (Jan 11, 2014)

Pill Monster said:


> Don't use just 1 stick of RAM or you'll be running in single channel mode....



In theory in certain isolated tests, but dual channel will not improve performance in reality as 99% of applications are not memory bandwidth starved. We're at a point in technology where  applications can't take advantage of the throughput. 1 stick will now will allow for expansion in the future.




Blue-Knight said:


> I never used Windows 8. I just know that performance on Windows XP 64-bit is much greater than on Windows 7 64-bit.
> 
> Maybe because Windows 7 needs much more CPU power to maintain all the unnecessary things running.



Even the most Victorian and ancient CPU would not struggle to run any operating system.  Operating systems take up a miniscule amount of processing power.  The memory management and CPU management for in Vista, 7 and 8 would be significantly better than XP. This may not translate into gaming performance but in terms of navigating the OS and multitasking it would be night and day.



LeonVolcove said:


> Thank you for all advice, critics and suggestion for my first build, i will still hold my money until official Kaveri benchmark is out and reviewed(from Guru3d, Hexus, Kitguru, and many others). If turn out to be what i expected or better, i will buy it without second thought. If it worse i will think a better alternative like many of you suggest
> 
> Thanks Again.
> 
> Good day and good morning.



What difference does it make Kaveri is a low end APU? Understandably you're on a budget but your budget allows for a Piledriver X6 and a dedicated video card. I doubt Kaveri would compete with it as its for a different audience.


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## Vario (Jan 11, 2014)

*Heres a build sheet:*

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

*CPU:* Intel Pentium G3220 3.0GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($64.97 @ OutletPC)
*CPU Cooler:* Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($26.97 @ Amazon)
*Motherboard:* ASRock H81M-HDS Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($49.99 @ Microcenter)
*Memory:* Kingston HyperX Blu 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory  ($69.99 @ Newegg)
*Storage:* Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($83.00 @ Amazon)
*Video Card:* Asus Radeon HD 7770 GHz Edition 1GB Video Card  ($95.38 @ Newegg)
*Case:* NZXT Source 210 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($37.99 @ Microcenter)
*Power Supply:* SeaSonic S12II 520W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($65.99 @ SuperBiiz)
*Operating System:* Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit)  ($82.99 @ NCIX US)
*Total:* $577.27
_(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-01-11 15:30 EST-0500)_


The haswell dual core should stomp any of the APU quad cores at single threaded stuff (aka games) and can be upgraded to a i7 or a xeon or something later if you want more performance 4 years from now.  The GPU is a good deal at $100.  8GB of ram is a good number, gives you room to grow.  The power supply is solid.  I think the NZXT 210 is the best case for the money as well.  Win7 home premium is my preference, w/e.



I picked 1150 instead of 1155 because theoretically the OP could update the bios to support broadwell if the socket is still in use, and extend the life of his computer when i5 and i7s get more affordable.


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## Dent1 (Jan 11, 2014)

Vario said:


> The haswell dual core should stomp any of the APU quad cores at single threaded stuff (aka games) and can be upgraded to a i7 or a xeon or something later if you want more performance 4 years from now.



In the rig you spec'd Richland APU would be significantly faster in games as it can be crossfire with the Radeon HD 7750/7770. Although its a mismatch many reports show that this combination actually works?


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## Vario (Jan 12, 2014)

Dent1 said:


> In the rig you spec'd Richland APU would be significantly faster in games as it can be crossfire with the Radeon HD 7750/7770. Although its a mismatch many reports show that this combination actually works?


Sounds like a major headache tbqh for a first time builder


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## Dent1 (Jan 12, 2014)

Vario said:


> Sounds like a major headache tbqh for a first time builder



I'm not talking about a hack or anything dodgy. The Richland was designed for hybrid crossfire in mind. It's more or less plug and play with a 7750.

Crossfire aside, I was looking at some gaming reviews of the Trinity, Richland Quad and i3 3200 dual core, with a dedicated single 6670. With the exception of Skyrim, all 3 GPUs managed to drive about the same frame rates within margin for error. Had AMD had Hybrid CF enabled it would have been a one sided battle with AMD ontop. Also considering the i3 3200 was losing the non gaming tasks too I think AMD has the better budget solution.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a10-6700-a10-6800k-richland-review,3528-5.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a10-6700-a10-6800k-richland-review,3528-6.html

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. i3 3200 for sure if you're going intel, Trinity or Richland APU if you're going AMD. Better yet save for a Piledriver X6.


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## Vario (Jan 12, 2014)

Dent1 said:


> I'm not talking about a hack or anything dodgy. The Richland was designed for hybrid crossfire in mind. It's more or less plug and play with a 7750.
> 
> Crossfire aside, I was looking at some gaming reviews of the Trinity, Richland Quad and i3 3200 dual core, with a dedicated single 6670. With the exception of Skyrim, all 3 CPUs managed to drive about the same frame rates within margin for error. Had AMD had Hybrid CF enabled it would have been a one sided battle with AMD ontop. Also considering the i3 3200 was losing the non gaming tasks too I think AMD has the better budget solution.
> 
> ...


Good info.  That is quite an attractive prospect, I didn't know the A10 could crossfire with a card that capable, I thought it was all really bad cards.  The 7750 is when I start to consider it a worthwhile for sure.

Another thought is if the OP can go used, theres amazing deals on 1336 era stuff right now on ebay, probably everyone from that time period dumped for haswell.

I think i7 920s average $60.


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## Hood (Jan 12, 2014)

I think you're right to wait for Kaveri, as it's bringing some new features that could make it perform a lot better in games than it's predecessor - HSA, GCN, and Mantle to name the most important ones.  It's possible that graphics performance could increase by 50% compared to the last generation.  Single core performance is rumored to be up at least 10% (AMD claims 20%).  This new APU could be the one that makes Intel start worrying - it could marginalize Intel's entire budget line from Core i5s on down.  I'm sure the Santa Clara boys have something up their sleeve, but of course it will be more expensive than AMD's offerings.


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## Vario (Jan 12, 2014)

I am hoping so, I would like to see AMD return to greatness, current stuff just barely cracks the Phenom II 980 and 1100t, I know that only finally with the latest stuff we are seeing significant  improvements over the old K10, which was a pretty long time ago.


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## mastrdrver (Jan 12, 2014)

Constantine Yevseyev said:


> Boo! What a disaster.
> We're talking about 2 or 3 percents difference in synthetic benchmarks and about 20 percent difference in price. I hardly doubt it's worth it even for a machine that uses system memory as VRAM, because I used to have one (AMD 785G), and all real-life apps used to run equally on both 2 x 1 GB (PC3-12800 CL10) and 2 GB (PC3-10600 CL9).



That system did not have the gpu power that current AMD APUs have, plus there are several reviews that show the more bandwidth you give AMD APUs the better the graphics performance becomes. Seeing as he wants to play games on this build, you're telling him to take a huge hit in performance. Not worth it.

In fact, according to results from Toms (here and here), you'd more then likely actually half your gaming performance going to single channel over dual channel. This is given since according to Tom's the percentage of performance increase is slightly less then the bandwidth increase (they get about 10% increase in game performance for about a 15% increase in bandwidth). Even going to something as dual channel 1600mhz ram (to save money) would have massive gains over the fastest single channel ram setup.

Going single channel ram over the slowest dual channel ram is bad advise.


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## Vario (Jan 12, 2014)

On the other hand if you go with an intel and a discrete card like a 270/78xx you can run cheaper ram with no performance hit.  2x4gb 1333 @ 1.5v 9-9-9-27 is plenty.


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## Dent1 (Jan 12, 2014)

Vario said:


> On the other hand if you go with an intel and a discrete card like a 270/78xx you can run cheaper ram with no performance hit.  2x4gb 1333 @ 1.5v 9-9-9-27 is plenty.



On the other hand if you go with an AMD and a discrete card like a 270/78xx you can run cheaper ram with no performance hit.  2x4gb 1333 @ 1.5v 9-9-9-27 is plenty as well.


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## xpert7 (Jan 12, 2014)

Dent1 said:


> Keep in mind the OP's budget is only $700 USD, that is only about £425 GBP.
> 
> £425 v £1000. There is a big difference.



ah that stupid exchange rate.. mines alot more than he would need though


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## xpert7 (Jan 12, 2014)

Frick said:


> No it is not, and the looks have nothing to do with hardware management. The estetics comes down to personal preference (I rather like it actually), and you are correct when you say we have to give clear advise. Which is why I'm saying Windows 8 is not more demanding than Windows 7. It just isn't. Windows 8 is even lighter than Windows 7 if Win7 has Aero Glass turned on.



In my opinion and everyone i talk to in the computing world none would choose windows 8 because of support issues, issues with hardware management ( granted this does depend on systems), antivirus mismatches leading to unstable protection and other factors. 

If i had the choice and they still supported it i would be on XP still haha


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## Pill Monster (Jan 13, 2014)

Constantine Yevseyev said:


> Boo! What a disaster.
> We're talking about 2 or 3 percents difference in synthetic benchmarks and about 20 percent difference in price. I hardly doubt it's worth it even for a machine that uses system memory as VRAM, because I used to have one (AMD 785G), and all real-life apps used to run equally on both 2 x 1 GB (PC3-12800 CL10) and 2 GB (PC3-10600 CL9).


Running in 2 sticks is not the same as running in dual channel, also the price is no different and system memory performance should be even more important since it's used for the GPU in this case.


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## Dent1 (Jan 13, 2014)

Pill Monster said:


> Running in 2 sticks is not the same as running in dual channel, also the price is no different and system memory performance should be even more important since it's used for the GPU in this case.



Keep in mind Dual Channel doesn't double the bandwidth throughput, typically yield is only 0-10%.  Dual channel is designed to increase efficiency by improving latency.


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## mastrdrver (Jan 13, 2014)

Dent1 said:


> Keep in mind Dual Channel doesn't double the bandwidth throughput, typically yield is only 0-10%.  Dual channel is designed to increase efficiency by improving latency.



0-10% for CPU related tasks. That's not what my point is. Doubling bandwidth in GPU tasks my not double performance, but an increase in 40% would not be surprising. Just look at Kabini GPU performance to see how much constraint single channel is on GPU performance. While you can't extrapolate direct comparison to Richland and Kavari, you can still see the performance hit that single channel put on GPU performance.


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## Constantine Yevseyev (Jan 13, 2014)

mastrdrver said:


> That system did not have the gpu power that current AMD APUs have, plus there are several reviews that show the more bandwidth you give AMD APUs the better the graphics performance becomes. Seeing as he wants to play games on this build, you're telling him to take a huge hit in performance. Not worth it.
> 
> In fact, according to results from Toms (here and here), you'd more then likely actually half your gaming performance going to single channel over dual channel. This is given since according to Tom's the percentage of performance increase is slightly less then the bandwidth increase (they get about 10% increase in game performance for about a 15% increase in bandwidth). Even going to something as dual channel 1600mhz ram (to save money) would have massive gains over the fastest single channel ram setup.
> 
> Going single channel ram over the slowest dual channel ram is bad advise.


Links you've provided have _nothing_ to do with illustrating the difference in between single and dual channel performance. Reviewer just says "OK, let's check whether using top-tier memory helps iGPU or not, oh well it does". Point is?.. There are NO single channel products in that (first) article, while the second one is written upon only ONE product. At all.
Moreover, you've chosen two most CPU-intensive titles, for what reason? It's not representative IMO.
So prove your words or stop feeding this myth about dual channel advantage.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jan 13, 2014)

xpert7 said:


> Speaking from the forensic standpoint and part of the computing society (have to give clear advise on the best) windows 7 is better at hardware management. Windows 8 is more about showmanship than usability.
> 
> We are all given the latest releases early and they do not work with modern games well.
> 
> Within a week of windows 8 i DBANed the drives and reloaded 7. Maybe when 9 comes ill change



You dont know what you are talking about.


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## xpert7 (Jan 13, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> You dont know what you are talking about.


  i stand by what i say. im not stopping anyone getting 8 just saying the issues it has


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 13, 2014)

xpert7 said:


> In my opinion and everyone i talk to in the computing world none would choose windows 8 because of support issues, issues with hardware management ( granted this does depend on systems), antivirus mismatches leading to unstable protection and other factors.
> 
> If i had the choice and they still supported it i would be on XP still haha


I'm sorry sir but you are incorrect. 8.1 is lighter, faster and far more secure than Windows 7.


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## xpert7 (Jan 13, 2014)

BTW, everyone pro windows 8 is on windows 8... k


TheMailMan78 said:


> I'm sorry sir but you are incorrect. 8.1 is lighter, faster and far more secure than Windows 7.



more secure? i am sorry but just no


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jan 13, 2014)

xpert7 said:


> *BTW, everyone pro windows 8 is on windows 8... k*
> 
> 
> more secure? i am sorry but just no



What an excellent observation................


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## Frick (Jan 13, 2014)

xpert7 said:


> more secure? i am sorry but just no



Apps in Metro mode are sandboxed. Smartscreen, which can be annoying but is more secure. Integrated AV. Memory and kernel witchcraft.


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## xpert7 (Jan 13, 2014)

yes in metro mode, not in desktop mode. to use the security you have to be self aware.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 13, 2014)

xpert7 said:


> yes in metro mode, not in desktop mode. to use the security you have to be self aware.


It comes built in with an AV AND secure boot. Both of which Windows 7 does not have. Sorry but you are incorrect. Windows 8 out of the box is more secure.


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## EpicShweetness (Jan 13, 2014)

LeonVolcove said:


> I saw in the older post that APU will benefit for Higher memory frequency 1866MHz or higher.  is that mean i have to overclock that memory, i never done the overclock before, is it not dangerous?will kill the my memory if i do that?or the processor too?


 
You have 1.5v and 1.65v RAM, avoid the 1.65v your memory controller runs at 1.5v and as such will default to a profile using said voltage. Also 2400MHZ is about the limit of use with current APU's you will see NO tangible benefits at a higher frequency. That said RAM with a clock of 2400MHZ is almost always going to be 1.65v, and the difference in performance between 2133MHZ is 5% maybe a little more. 2133MHZ is available in 1.5v as well as being cheaper, in some cases MUCH cheaper, then 2400MHZ.


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## mastrdrver (Jan 14, 2014)

Constantine Yevseyev said:


> Links you've provided have _nothing_ to do with illustrating the difference in between single and dual channel performance. Reviewer just says "OK, let's check whether using top-tier memory helps iGPU or not, oh well it does". Point is?.. There are NO single channel products in that (first) article, while the second one is written upon only ONE product. At all.
> Moreover, you've chosen two most CPU-intensive titles, for what reason? It's not representative IMO.
> So prove your words or stop feeding this myth about dual channel advantage.



They show an increase in bandwidth. Using dual channel instead of single channel will increase bandwidth. Thus it is logical that dual channel trumps single channel in every circumstance. There are a lot more then just the two titles linked in those articles and they prove that the GPU on the APUs love bandwidth with the more the better. These two titles would only be CPU limited if the test was done with a higher end GPU. In fact, the increase in graphic settings prove that they're not CPU bound but GPU bound otherwise an increase in graphic settings would produce the same results as the the lower settings.

Your argument is flawed all around and the only one feeding myths is you as you refuse to accept the obvious facts of that site or any other site as they all show the same results.


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## TRWOV (Jan 14, 2014)

Tomorrow is Kaveri day.


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## micropage7 (Jan 14, 2014)

TheMailMan78 said:


> It comes built in with an AV AND secure boot. Both of which Windows 7 does not have. Sorry but you are incorrect. Windows 8 out of the box is more secure.


yeah, but m$ cant package it well. people get ouch when they see metro interface and quickly forgot about plus things of win 8


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## mastrdrver (Jan 14, 2014)

To further put the nail in the coffin that single channel ram only incures a marginal GPU performance hit, when it comes to AMD APUs, I'll quote Anandtech from their initial Richland review (article link):



> Without getting into the details, relevant to testing is that the GX60 actually ships with only one DIMM channel populated. While the CPU isn't heavily affected by operating in single-channel mode, the IGP takes a nearly 50% hit to performance virtually across the board.


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## Constantine Yevseyev (Jan 14, 2014)

mastrdrver said:


> They show an increase in bandwidth. Using dual channel instead of single channel will increase bandwidth. Thus it is logical that dual channel trumps single channel in every circumstance. There are a lot more then just the two titles linked in those articles and they prove that the GPU on the APUs love bandwidth with the more the better. These two titles would only be CPU limited if the test was done with a higher end GPU. In fact, the increase in graphic settings prove that they're not CPU bound but GPU bound otherwise an increase in graphic settings would produce the same results as the the lower settings.
> 
> Your argument is flawed all around and the only one feeding myths is you as you refuse to accept the obvious facts of that site or any other site as they all show the same results.


If it's so obvious, then post a comparison screenshot w/ benchmark or real-life app results. Single Channel vs. Dual Channel. Do it.


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## Hood (Jan 14, 2014)

TRWOV said:


> Tomorrow is Kaveri day.


I'm glad I'm not the only one who's excited about this launch, which is pretty strange since I'm an Intel guy for years now.  But I recently built an APU system (in my system specs), for no reason except curiosity and an itch to build something different.  So now I'm dying to see how Kaveri will perform with some fast RAM and a healthy overclock, even though I already sold the system to a friend.  I built it with an FM2+ board, of course, and he's already decided to get an A10-7850K next payday!  So now I get to see firsthand what it will do, and it's on his dime!


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## Dent1 (Jan 14, 2014)

mastrdrver said:


> They show an increase in bandwidth. Using dual channel instead of single channel will increase bandwidth. Thus it is logical that dual channel trumps single channel in every circumstance. There are a lot more then just the two titles linked in those articles and they prove that the GPU on the APUs love bandwidth with the more the better. These two titles would only be CPU limited if the test was done with a higher end GPU. In fact, the increase in graphic settings prove that they're not CPU bound but GPU bound otherwise an increase in graphic settings would produce the same results as the the lower settings.
> 
> Your argument is flawed all around and the only one feeding myths is you as you refuse to accept the obvious facts of that site or any other site as they all show the same results.



The original links you show indicate that higher memory frequencies will improves APU performance. This is common sense.

The issue is whether dual channel improves APU performance? Why not stop at high clocked single channel module.


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## jcgeny (Jan 14, 2014)

LeonVolcove said:


> Thank you for all advice, critics and suggestion for my first build, i will still hold my money until official Kaveri benchmark is out and reviewed(from Guru3d, Hexus, Kitguru, and many others). If turn out to be what i expected or better, i will buy it without second thought. If it worse i will think a better alternative like many of you suggest
> 
> Thanks Again.
> 
> Good day and good morning.


i am not sure if all his story was "true" , a guy with 700 $ that does so much " la fine bouche" can not be real ... when will he be back with a photo of "his first pc" ? ....


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## Vario (Jan 14, 2014)

jcgeny said:


> i am not sure if all his story was "true" , a guy with 700 $ that does so much " la fine bouche" can not be real ... when will he be back with a photo of "his first pc" ? ....


Haha probably is but seriously any of the builds that we posted would be an amazing rig... really sick of these "my first _" threads though, its either a guy who wants all Corsair shit or its someone trolling for a AMD intel flamewar which thankfully this forum is free of and thats why I post here.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 14, 2014)

Vario said:


> Haha probably is but seriously any of the builds that we posted would be an amazing rig... really sick of these "my first _" threads though, its either a guy who wants all Corsair shit or its someone trolling for a AMD intel flamewar which thankfully this forum is free of and thats why I post here.


Screw you! Intel OWNS Linux as an OS. Microsoft builds the best GPU's! Corsair can't even touch them.


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## Frick (Jan 14, 2014)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Screw you! Intel OWNS Linux as an OS. Microsoft builds the best GPU's! Corsair can't even touch them.



And Bill Gates stand above them all, with a crown of Google harddrives woven together with AMD Fusion Reactor Cores on his head, molten germanium pouring from his eye sockets. The light of a thousand burning Sun Javas frame his head like a halo. He has long hair.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 14, 2014)

Frick said:


> And Bill Gates stand above them all, with a crown of Google harddrives woven together with AMD Fusion Reactor Cores on his head, molten germanium pouring from his eye sockets. The light of a thousand burning Sun Javas frame his head like a halo. He has long hair.


And when he saw it, He said  It was good. On the 1337th day he rested.


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## LeonVolcove (Jan 15, 2014)

Sorry i  am too busy with my office report and don t have time for answer.
Today is Kaveri review right? I will read some before make my decision


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## LeonVolcove (Jan 16, 2014)

Those performance are WoW but the price is quite high for what i expected. Oh well, they bundled with BF4 copy

i will shop for other component first(HDD, Mobo, Ram, PSU, Case, Monitor) then the Kaveri

Thanks again again for many advice. Good Days folk


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## Dent1 (Jan 16, 2014)

LeonVolcove said:


> Those performance are WoW but the price is quite high for what i expected. Oh well, they bundled with BF4 copy
> 
> i will shop for other component first(HDD, Mobo, Ram, PSU, Case, Monitor) then the Kaveri
> 
> Thanks again again for many advice. Good Days folk



Prices are high because its just got released. Takes a few weeks for the price to settle.


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## mastrdrver (Jan 20, 2014)

Constantine Yevseyev said:


> If it's so obvious, then post a comparison screenshot w/ benchmark or real-life app results. Single Channel vs. Dual Channel. Do it.



Did you not read the link I posted right before you posted this? If not, then you need to go reread it. Dustin Sklavos (from Anandtech) stated exactly what I've been saying. You're just refusing to accept that you're wrong at this point.



Dent1 said:


> The original links you show indicate that higher memory frequencies will improves APU performance. This is common sense.
> 
> The issue is whether dual channel improves APU performance? Why not stop at high clocked single channel module.



This is illogical. You say that increasing bandwidth improves performance, but then say that dual channel is somehow different then a doubling of bandwidth. You've just contradicted yourself.


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## Dent1 (Jan 20, 2014)

mastrdrver said:


> This is illogical. You say that increasing bandwidth improves performance, but then say that dual channel is somehow different then a doubling of bandwidth. You've just contradicted yourself.



It's not illogical. Because doubling the bandwidth doesn't mean doubling the performance.


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## Constantine Yevseyev (Jan 20, 2014)

mastrdrver said:


> Did you not read the link I posted right before you posted this? If not, then you need to go reread it. Dustin Sklavos (from Anandtech) stated exactly what I've been saying. You're just refusing to accept that you're wrong at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> This is illogical. You say that increasing bandwidth improves performance, but then say that dual channel is somehow different then a doubling of bandwidth. You've just contradicted yourself.


If you believe in something, like god or glowing pancakes, then I'm OK with that fact, just like 99% of other people on the Earth. But if you start projecting your beliefes on somebody, it's obviously not a good thing. I know how it's hard to realize that you had thrown some cash on a feature that doesn't really exist, but you need to forgive yourself and let it go.
You still haven't provided a proof, though. I think I'm going to end this discussion if there won't be any.


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## mastrdrver (Jan 22, 2014)

Both of you are either crazy or can't read as the Anandtech article clearly states that going from single channel memory to dual channel almost doubled performance. I've got nothing more to prove or say since you refuse to accept the clear words of the Anandtech review of that laptop which originally was using single channel instead of dual.


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## LeonVolcove (Jan 22, 2014)

Guys chill out, i already bought this "Gaming PC" and could be happier.
You can check it in my specs.

A million thanks for you all for advice and critics, i think this thread is finished. Good day and Good morning


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## Dent1 (Jan 22, 2014)

LeonVolcove said:


> Guys chill out, i already bought this "Gaming PC" and could be happier.
> You can check it in my specs.
> A million thanks for you all for advice and critics, i think this thread is finished. Good day and Good morning




Glad you're enjoying your rig, I've only heard good things about the Kaveri.





mastrdrver said:


> In fact, according to results from Toms (here and here), you'd more then likely actually half your gaming performance going to single channel over dual channel





mastrdrver said:


> Both of you are either crazy or can't read as the Anandtech article clearly states that going from single channel memory to dual channel almost doubled performance. I've got nothing more to prove or say since you refuse to accept the clear words of the Anandtech review of that laptop which originally was using single channel instead of dual.




What are you talking about? Apparently its you that can't read.

The Tom's Hardware article you link suggests only up to 20% performance increase in gaming, at a 50% price increase.  20% is nowhere near "almost doubled the performance".

Also the article didn't even test single vs dual channel, so we can't even be sure if up to 20% isn't just because of the higher bandwidth of DDR3-2400 rather than dual channel alone.


Quote from The Tom's Hardware Article you linked:



> At the end of the day, a 20% performance increase is pretty big. Huge, even. And there were a few games where the faster memory was required simply to break us into our minimally-accepted 40 FPS average. The $20 price difference over lower-end RAM is only 10% of a $200 upgrade package, or 5% of a complete $400 budget-oriented build. _That’s _how a 50% component price increase that facilitates 20% more gaming performance is able to top our value charts.


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## LeonVolcove (Jan 22, 2014)

So far still happy, but 1 complaint my windows booting is slow as snail(blamed my HDD for that) wish i had a SSD for OS
2 or 3 Month later i will buy SSD for OS booting


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## Dent1 (Jan 22, 2014)

LeonVolcove said:


> So far still happy, but 1 complaint my windows booting is slow as snail(blamed my HDD for that) wish i had a SSD for OS
> 2 or 3 Month later i will buy SSD for OS booting



An SSD would help with booting, but not the best reason to buy one though.  You're better off buying an SSD for installing the OS and applications directly onto it specifically to increase the snappiness of the OS's navigation and loading times within games.

BTW for a gaming rig, your first priority should be a dedicated video card, specially at 1920 x 1080. Keep in mind Kaveri has a few budget cards it can crossfire with which will reduce the overall cost for you.


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## mastrdrver (Jan 23, 2014)

Good to hear.



Dent1 said:


> Glad you're enjoying your rig, I've only heard good things about the Kaveri.
> What are you talking about? Apparently its you that can't read.
> The Tom's Hardware article you link suggests only up to 20% performance increase in gaming, at a 50% price increase.  20% is nowhere near "almost doubled the performance".
> Also the article didn't even test single vs dual channel, so we can't even be sure if up to 20% isn't just because of the higher bandwidth of DDR3-2400 rather than dual channel alone.
> Quote from The Tom's Hardware Article you linked:



I was talking about the Anandtech article. Not the Tom's Hardware one hence why I said Anandtech.


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## LeonVolcove (Jan 23, 2014)

Thats why i am stuck in choosing between SSD for OS booting or crossfire my Kaveri with R7-240/250


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## happita (Jan 23, 2014)

If you want a bit more performance in games, then you'd definitely want to get a R7 250 for some hybrid crossfire with that Kaveri.


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## theFOoL (Jan 23, 2014)

happita said:


> If you want a bit more performance in games, then you'd definitely want to get a R7 250 for some hybrid crossfire with that Kaveri.


that and maybe buy faster RAM @2133


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## Dent1 (Jan 23, 2014)

LeonVolcove said:


> Thats why i am stuck in choosing between SSD for OS booting or crossfire my Kaveri with R7-240/250



Easy choice. This is your first gaming PC, the only way to add significant improvement in games is for  a dedicated video card.



mastrdrver said:


> Good to hear.
> I was talking about the Anandtech article. Not the Tom's Hardware one hence why I said Anandtech.



You linked Tom's Hardware too. So you don't even stand behind your OWN Tom's Hardware link.

The Anandtech review doesn't even test RAM. The Author runs no memory related benchmarks, there are no memory related screen shots or memory related charts & graphs. He just makes a general observation which he doesn't even test officially himself. Also we have no clue whether a higher clocked single module would have the same effect as lower clocked dual module, because he never ran any memory tests.


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## Vario (Jan 24, 2014)

Badass rig you built.  Checked it out in your specs, it looks like it will serve you well.

Two Superpi 32m runs would work, I could do a test for you at 4.8ghz with both dimms at 2133 then take out a dimm if you want and do same test, that would tell you the performance hit.

i7 3770k @ 4.8Ghz
Single Channel 8GB 2133 11-11-11-33 HyperX (Hynix)

32m score: 7 minutes 18.673s checksum 704DD90

i7 3770k @ 4.8Ghz
Dual Channel 16GB 2133 11-11-11-33 HyperX (Hynix)

32m score: 7 minutes 2.121s checksum FE5A55E7


Barely a noticeable difference in the grand scheme of things.


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