# 4K at 60hz or 2560x1440 at 96-120hz???



## Footman (Aug 5, 2014)

I'm up for some opinions as I am finding it hard to make a decision.
Current monitor Dell U2711.
Current video solution 2 x R9-290's in CF
Current game played: FPS- BF4, Metro, Tomb Raider, Arma lll.

Looking to upgrade monitor but currently struggling to find a solution.

Asus PB287Q looks good, 4K at 60hz. I like the extra real estate, and think that my video cards will be able to manage 60fps without FSAA enabled.
Or
2560x1440 at 120hz???
Problem is that there is only one monitor that officially supports 120-144hz at 2560x1440 the ROG Swift and this comes with Gsync and is $800 (I don't need gsync and it's $180 more than the Asus 4K)
Unofficially there are a bunch of Korean imports that can be overclocked and there is the Overlord Tempest that can also be overclocked to 120hz (tested to at least 96hz before it leaves factory).....
The problem with the Tempest and Korean imports is that there are a number of driver modifications that need to be performed to get these working and the overclocks are not guaranteed...

I could do with some input from gamers that have tried 4k or an overclocked 1440 display, or preferably both...

4K at 60hz or 1440 at 96-120hz???


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## GhostRyder (Aug 5, 2014)

Footman said:


> I'm up for some opinions as I am finding it hard to make a decision.
> Current monitor Dell U2711.
> Current video solution 2 x R9-290's in CF
> Current game played: FPS- BF4, Metro, Tomb Raider, Arma lll.
> ...


Well I own the Asus PB287Q 4k monitor and in all honesty its great in all respects.  The extra area for viewing, games, the quality just shines and the monitor itself has a very robust feature set.

Based on your specs, if your looking for a monitor know that it is very demanding running 4k60hz right now and even on my system (3 R9 290X cards).  Its not going to be ultra for everything on yours without taking some sacrifices however BF4 runs pretty well at 4k in all honesty and looks great.

I will warn you that there are some issues on the Asus monitor and the R9 290/X cards with regards to 60hz refresh that occurs off and on and is being resolved right now (Many of the 4k monitors are using non-standard ways of outputting 60hz which is causing the issue).

As far as 2560x1440p at 120+ hz as you stated its not a normal thing.  The ROG Swift is pretty much the only one that stock runs like that and of course you get the Gsync premium option with it.  Personally speaking I would say 60hz is more than enough and if your looking at 1440p it might be better to stick with 60hz mostly due to game limitations at above 60FPS.  It is very difficult to run above 60FPS since most games are optimised for that area and will of course result in alot of spiking around even on the most advanced system.

My advice to you is this:
Get the 4k asus if you want to be ready for the future, but be prepared to have to wait on drivers or other things to get 100% satisfaction (Games run fine so far its mostly the output thats the issue).

Get a nice 2560x1440p monitor (Like the asus PB278Q) and have less to worry about.


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## Footman (Aug 5, 2014)

Good information Ghost. Could the issues at 4K be caused by you using 3 x R9-290's? Will 2 x R9-290's be less of an problem? Can you elaborate on the issues that you are having with the 4K monitor? I'll also look in to the PB278Q.
Cheers.
Footman


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## Lopez0101 (Aug 5, 2014)

I have a PB278Q on one R9 290. I overclocked it to 80Hz, but I got a headache a couple days in a row. Probably just a coincidence, because at 75Hz I have no issues. Also, you don't need to modify any drivers if you're staying below a certain clock rate. So CRU went up to 80Hz without needing any driver modifications. Above 80Hz may need them, but 80Hz tends to be the max on the PB278Q, from what I've read.

Honestly, I don't notice a big difference between 60 and 75Hz.


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## Footman (Aug 5, 2014)

Just picked up this nugget on TFT Central. 

* Refresh Rate Overclocking*
One are which some Korean monitors are known for are their ability to overclock the refresh rate. In affect this would allow you to boost the native 60Hz maximum refresh rate supported by the panel to 100Hz or more. The ability to overclock a monitor depends on several factors including the panel, internal electronics and your graphics card. You will need third party apps to set up a custom resolution and refresh rate to test it, and results will vary from one screen to another often. Some Korean monitors can be overclocked up to around 100Hz which then brings about benefits in terms of frame rate and motion smoothness for gaming. It also means you can have a 2560 x 1440 resolution IPS (or PLS/AHVA) panel with a refresh rate of >60Hz which is desirable to some. A lot of people have been hoping for IPS panels with native 120Hz support, but to date there have only been TN Film and a couple of MVA panels which can support those kind of refresh rates.

There are a couple of considerations which should be made when even thinking about overclocking. Firstly you need to consider whether the response time of the panel is even sufficient to cope with the increased frame rate. For instance if you are running a screen at 120Hz, there is a new frame sent to the screen every 8.33ms. If the response time is not less than this it will not be able to keep up with the demand. This is one of the reasons why TN Film panels are the main technology for 120Hz+ displays as their response times allow for this frame rate support. Most IPS-type panels are much slower and so while you might be able to send 120 fps to the screen, the response time of the pixels may struggle to keep up. There are still benefits in terms of gaming frame rate and smoothness of movement but refresh rate isn't everything. You also need to be aware that although you might be able to run a screen at a higher refresh rate, and it will display an image, it may well drop frames which makes the whole thing pointless anyway. That will lead to stuttering and frame drops which no one wants. What you are looking for is a display with a fast response time, and the ability to support higher refresh rates without frames being dropped.

This screen is advertised as being able to support overclocked refresh rates up to 120Hz. We tested the QX2710 LED Evolution II DPmulti TRUE10 and it was easy enough to create custom resolutions and refresh rates which the monitor accepted. An image was displayed fine at 2560 x 1440 resolution and at 75, 100 and 120Hz refresh rates. We tested these over both DL-DVI and DisplayPort. Although the image was displayed, frames were unfortunately dropped in all cases, meaning this was all rather pointless. Some artefacts were also visible in some situations. It didn't seem to allow any useful overclocking beyond 60Hz sadly. Maybe results will vary with other models in the range of single input variants as some people have reported. The specified ability to overclock up to 120Hz is somewhat misleading for this particular model though.


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## Footman (Aug 5, 2014)

Lopez0101 said:


> I have a PB278Q on one R9 290. I overclocked it to 80Hz, but I got a headache a couple days in a row. Probably just a coincidence, because at 75Hz I have no issues. Also, you don't need to modify any drivers if you're staying below a certain clock rate. So CRU went up to 80Hz without needing any driver modifications. Above 80Hz may need them, but 80Hz tends to be the max on the PB278Q, from what I've read.
> 
> Honestly, I don't notice a big difference between 60 and 75Hz.



Perhaps the headache is caused by pwm backlight?


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## Lopez0101 (Aug 5, 2014)

I think it was just too much time in front of it at the time. Otherwise, I don't generally get headaches unless I spend house staring intently at the screen. But the 80Hz did seem to "feel" weird. Oh well, I wasn't bothered by 60Hz, but I'll take 75Hz!


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## OneMoar (Aug 5, 2014)

4K is very demanding and if you want vsync @ 60hz then you are gonna need to drop the details on some titles
refresh rate over driving is nothing new I do it on my crappy little hp W207LD  From 60 to 75Hz 
remember that the refresh rate is useless unless you have a gpu that can pump that frame rate 4K is asking a lot even from 2 or 3 290's also a 4k vram becomes a premium


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## GhostRyder (Aug 6, 2014)

Footman said:


> Good information Ghost. Could the issues at 4K be caused by you using 3 x R9-290's? Will 2 x R9-290's be less of an problem? Can you elaborate on the issues that you are having with the 4K monitor? I'll also look in to the PB278Q.
> Cheers.
> Footman


Its a cause from DP 1.2 and the manufacturers with the new 4k panels.  Some of them have been made different to achieve 60hz which has caused issues for both sides but some of the AMD cards were hit particularly hard with the issue (Particularly the R9 290 series) which it has something to do with the way the DP 1.2 handles the 60hz at 4k on some panels.  Its random which ones have issues and which don't...

I personally have never actually owned high refresh monitor for my own gaming rig, however I have played on them and watched people with them at many LAN parties and borrowed a 1080p 3d 144hz monitor for awhile to test but in all honesty just getting that FPS was hard even on Dual 6990's and on top of that games sometimes limit the FPS in general along with poor optimizations at that area.  I personally just prefer higher quality at the moment in terms of picture quality with low response times over high refresh.

This is just my opinion of course...But I love my PB287Q 4k monitor


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## Footman (Aug 6, 2014)

GhostRyder said:


> Its a cause from DP 1.2 and the manufacturers with the new 4k panels.  Some of them have been made different to achieve 60hz which has caused issues for both sides but some of the AMD cards were hit particularly hard with the issue (Particularly the R9 290 series) which it has something to do with the way the DP 1.2 handles the 60hz at 4k on some panels.  Its random which ones have issues and which don't...
> 
> I personally have never actually owned high refresh monitor for my own gaming rig, however I have played on them and watched people with them at many LAN parties and borrowed a 1080p 3d 144hz monitor for awhile to test but in all honesty just getting that FPS was hard even on Dual 6990's and on top of that games sometimes limit the FPS in general along with poor optimizations at that area.  I personally just prefer higher quality at the moment in terms of picture quality with low response times over high refresh.
> 
> This is just my opinion of course...But I love my PB287Q 4k monitor



I've been gaming on the Dell U2711 and to be honest this is not the most responsive screen on the market, I like the color of the IPS screens but prefer the response rate of TN. LOL. Guess it is not an easy question to answer.

Perhaps I'll see if I can buy the PB287Q from Bestbuy or Costco for a test drive. If this does not work out I can take it back for a refund....


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## OneMoar (Aug 6, 2014)

if you can snag a displayport 1.2a capable monitor in the coming months you can give freesync a shot


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## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 6, 2014)

Only 1440p monitor IMO worth getting right now is the Asus ROG Swift 27" with G-Sync up to 144hz refresh. But for the price, id rather just get a 4k 60hz.


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## Enterprise24 (Aug 6, 2014)

Wait for asus pb279q 4k ips under 1000$. It will release sometime in late Q3 this year.
Honestly TN panel suck , Once I switch from TN to IPS I cannot go back.
Except you play many fps or racing , I would suggest Korean 1440p and overclock it to 120hz. Tom's hardware have good review on Overlord Tempest monitor.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 6, 2014)

Enterprise24 said:


> Wait for asus pb279q 4k ips under 1000$. It will release sometime in late Q3 this year.
> Honestly TN panel suck , Once I switch from TN to IPS I cannot go back.
> Except you play many fps or racing , I would suggest Korean 1440p and overclock it to 120hz. Tom's hardware have good review on Overlord Tempest monitor.



Don't really recommend that, as they will skip/drop frames when you overclock depending on the one you get.


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## Footman (Aug 6, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Only 1440p monitor IMO worth getting right now is the Asus ROG Swift 27" with G-Sync up to 144hz refresh. But for the price, id rather just get a 4k 60hz.


LOL, and there's my pain.......


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## Footman (Aug 6, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Don't really recommend that, as they will skip/drop frames when you overclock depending on the one you get.



I found a good explanation of refresh rate overclocking on TFT Central, posted above that explains just this.


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## Footman (Aug 6, 2014)

Enterprise24 said:


> Wait for asus pb279q 4k ips under 1000$. It will release sometime in late Q3 this year.
> Honestly TN panel suck , Once I switch from TN to IPS I cannot go back.
> Except you play many fps or racing , I would suggest Korean 1440p and overclock it to 120hz. Tom's hardware have good review on Overlord Tempest monitor.



I read the Tempest review on Toms, IPS screen 2560x1440 low input lag, even at stock 60hz.... Would be a nicer screen than my Dell U2711 for gaming, even at 60hz.... Only problem is no stock. Response rate of 6ms also gives it a good chance of overclocking to 96hz without fear of lost frames..... Good price for a 1440 IPS screen anyhow..... $450...


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## GhostRyder (Aug 6, 2014)

Footman said:


> I've been gaming on the Dell U2711 and to be honest this is not the most responsive screen on the market, I like the color of the IPS screens but prefer the response rate of TN. LOL. Guess it is not an easy question to answer.
> 
> Perhaps I'll see if I can buy the PB287Q from Bestbuy or Costco for a test drive. If this does not work out I can take it back for a refund....


Honestly, I have a tendency to not switch monitors too often for my personal Desktop because I normally just keep something until I really want to upgrade.  I have had 3 Hanns-G Monitors that were 1080p for years and they were honestly excellent 60hz 1080p monitors for surround with great response times (Used in eyefinity setup).  I have had a decent Samsung ips monitor but the 6ms (I think it was 6) response was noticeable in games and I honestly at that point decided to make a choice.  With a good TN panel (Like the Asus PB287Q has) all the problems people associate with cheap TN panels either disappear or are not too noticeable in all honesty.

For me, either type of monitor works great.  I think TN are great for gaming monitors and offer great pricing.  I play lots of FPS games on my machine so having the low lag really does help.  I can honestly say though when it comes to refresh I feel that 60-75 is the best in all honesty unless you really want to invest in some extraordinary hardware and possibly reduce graphics.  Otherwise a nice 1440p or 2160p is my best choice as long as you get a low lag one with 60hz refresh you will be fine.

But again im only offering opinions so I cannot force you into my way of thinking and some people view my idea of good monitors to be foolish so its up to you.

But I will say again, I never regretted buying the Asus PB287Q but I also got mine for $520 on newegg.


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## Footman (Aug 6, 2014)

GhostRyder said:


> Honestly, I have a tendency to not switch monitors too often for my personal Desktop because I normally just keep something until I really want to upgrade.  I have had 3 Hanns-G Monitors that were 1080p for years and they were honestly excellent 60hz 1080p monitors for surround with great response times (Used in eyefinity setup).  I have had a decent Samsung ips monitor but the 6ms (I think it was 6) response was noticeable in games and I honestly at that point decided to make a choice.  With a good TN panel (Like the Asus PB287Q has) all the problems people associate with cheap TN panels either disappear or are not too noticeable in all honesty.
> 
> For me, either type of monitor works great.  I think TN are great for gaming monitors and offer great pricing.  I play lots of FPS games on my machine so having the low lag really does help.  I can honestly say though when it comes to refresh I feel that 60-75 is the best in all honesty unless you really want to invest in some extraordinary hardware and possibly reduce graphics.  Otherwise a nice 1440p or 2160p is my best choice as long as you get a low lag one with 60hz refresh you will be fine.
> 
> ...



My issue with the PB287Q is the led pwm backlight. At anything less than 100% brightness it creates a flicker that has given me headache's with other monitors. That's why I went with the CCFL backlight of the U2711....


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## GhostRyder (Aug 6, 2014)

Footman said:


> My issue with the PB287Q is the led pwm backlight. At anything less than 100% brightness it creates a flicker that has given me headache's with other monitors. That's why I went with the CCFL backlight of the U2711....


Ah well I do not know how to remedy that as something like that has not been a problem for me.  I can turn down the brightness on mine and see if that happens but I do not believe that bothers me (if it happens) enough to notice.

I believe most of the current lineup of 4k monitors in the 28inch range though are LED backlit but I would have to check specs.


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## Footman (Aug 6, 2014)

GhostRyder said:


> Ah well I do not know how to remedy that as something like that has not been a problem for me.  I can turn down the brightness on mine and see if that happens but I do not believe that bothers me (if it happens) enough to notice.
> 
> I believe most of the current lineup of 4k monitors in the 28inch range though are LED backlit but I would have to check specs.


True but I know that your Asus does not have a pwm backlight and this makes it more attractive for me...


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## Toothless (Aug 6, 2014)

Footman, can you just combine your posts instead of double/triple posting? Makes things easier on everyone. Thanks.


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## Footman (Aug 6, 2014)

Lightbulbie said:


> Footman, can you just combine your posts instead of double/triple posting? Makes things easier on everyone. Thanks.


I could, but to be honest it was just easier and less time consuming doing it singly.
Don't be a hater


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## OneMoar (Aug 6, 2014)

Footman said:


> I could, but to be honest it was just easier and less time consuming doing it singly.
> Don't be a hater


its also against forum rules and the purpose of that rule is to consolidate posts and make reading easier


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## RejZoR (Aug 6, 2014)

Footman said:


> My issue with the PB287Q is the led pwm backlight. At anything less than 100% brightness it creates a flicker that has given me headache's with other monitors. That's why I went with the CCFL backlight of the U2711....



My VG248QE is so bright i have to use it at around 25-30% brightness. Don't really see any flickering and my eyes are otherwise very sensitive to everything.

However if i use Strobelight at 120Hz i do notice it and it's not cool on my eyes. Though it does make image super sharp during motion.


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## Chetkigaming (Aug 6, 2014)

120hz.


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 6, 2014)

Do games that support 4k account for text properly? If not, I'm picturing tiny fonts for HUD, inventory, dialog, prompts, etc.

I don't even like the half ass way Windows supports fonts. I sit 5' away from my 32" display, yet if I don't run a 1366x768 desktop res, I run into font issues here and there, and that's after adjusting them to large size and running Classic mode theme to change font styles and boldness where I can.


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## Footman (Aug 7, 2014)

Frag Maniac said:


> Do games that support 4k account for text properly? If not, I'm picturing tiny fonts for HUD, inventory, dialog, prompts, etc.
> 
> I don't even like the half ass way Windows supports fonts. I sit 5' away from my 32" display, yet if I don't run a 1366x768 desktop res, I run into font issues here and there, and that's after adjusting them to large size and running Classic mode theme to change font styles and boldness where I can.


Windows 8.1 does a better job scaling text. Lucky for me I am currently running 8.1 then. Just got back from a visit to Frys where I saw a Samsung 28in 4K monitor and an Asus 32in 4k... Both looked awesome if I am being honest. I liked the extra desktop for photo editing.

I kind of think that I will end up with the 4K monitor due to the extra real estate....


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 7, 2014)

Footman said:


> Windows 8.1 does a better job scaling text. Lucky for me I am currently running 8.1 then. Just got back from a visit to Frys where I saw a Samsung 28in 4K monitor and an Asus 32in 4k... Both looked awesome if I am being honest. I liked the extra desktop for photo editing.
> 
> I kind of think that I will end up with the 4K monitor due to the extra real estate....



By better do you mean ALL fonts are scaled vs just some? And can you do this without going to Classic mode? One thing I really don't like about W8.1 is the crap color options for window borders. It's a step back from W7. I like running W7 with clear window borders, and I like that the taskbar can be clear too.

I'm curious about 4k game support though, because most games don't scale their fonts to the res you're using.


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## Bansaku (Aug 7, 2014)

Lopez0101 said:


> But the 80Hz did seem to "feel" weird.



I actually had the same feeling when I used to use the 80Hz refresh rate on my old CRT. It just felt 'weird'. Hard to explain. Never had that feeling at 75Hz or 100Hz.


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## dr0thegreatest (Aug 7, 2014)

Hmm , 2 cards 290, it will be good enough for 4k gaming but like the 2nd poster said you cant MAX everything. Also i think the 4k line is still relatively young, if you can find  a good price for 120hz ($200) i would pick that up now . 4k gaming while may be really good to the eye , still dont think it justifies the higher price, especially for a monitor at the end of the day.


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## Footman (Aug 7, 2014)

dr0thegreatest said:


> Hmm , 2 cards 290, it will be good enough for 4k gaming but like the 2nd poster said you cant MAX everything. Also i think the 4k line is still relatively young, if you can find  a good price for 120hz ($200) i would pick that up now . 4k gaming while may be really good to the eye , still dont think it justifies the higher price, especially for a monitor at the end of the day.


2560x1440 at 120hz is not possible for $200, even if you factor in some of the cheap Korean imports. Based on what I have read even if they are able to be overclocked then there is a risk of dropped frames if their response rate is not fast enough for the increased refresh. Right now, if I do the math then I could expect around 96hz reliably from a monitor like the Overlord Tempest ($450). I spoke to them yesterday, they have no stock, however every monitor is tested at 96hz before it is sent out. If I go with 4K then I will not require FSAA in gaming. The 60hz refresh is what I am used to now and the Asus monitor actually has a reduced input lag compared to my Dell U2711. The only thing I will miss is the IPS panel and better viewing angles and colors....


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## Lopez0101 (Aug 7, 2014)

I didn't realize the cheap 4K monitors are TN panels. You're also going to need a much more powerful graphics setup to run 4K above 30FPS vs. 1440p with 2x or 4x AA. Honestly, at 1440p I really don't notice jaggies much and FXAA is usually enough to take care of any with low GPU cost.


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## Footman (Aug 7, 2014)

Lopez0101 said:


> I didn't realize the cheap 4K monitors are TN panels. You're also going to need a much more powerful graphics setup to run 4K above 30FPS vs. 1440p with 2x or 4x AA. Honestly, at 1440p I really don't notice jaggies much and FXAA is usually enough to take care of any with low GPU cost.



I made my decision, went with a faster 2560x1440 IPS panel. Can't go back to TN.... Overlord had a Tempest OC available. Their tech support told me that each Tempest is tested to a minimum of 96hz oc before they are shipped. The difference between 60hz and 96hz will be something for fps games. I am not concerned if I am unable to reach 120hz as long as I have 96hz available.

My CF R9-290's work well at 2560x1440 currently, having a faster response time and less input lag will be sweet. I was concerned with the lack of OSD but I spoke to Christian at TomsHardware and he has passed on his custom calibration ICC from his review of this monitor....

I'll post back when the monitor arrives and let you know how it goes.

BTW the Overlord Tempest OC was $450, which I consider pretty good value for a 27in IPS screen that has been tested to 96hz...
$350 cheaper than the Asus ROG Swift too, after all I can't use the gsync (AMD VGA)...
Can't wait.


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## Footman (Aug 7, 2014)

Wow, the Overlord guys are quick. Ordered less than 60mins ago, shipped and tracking number received!


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## RealNeil (Aug 7, 2014)

Let us know how you like it.


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