# Netflix - WTH is Standard Definition?



## Frick (Jan 6, 2016)

Short question and I'm not friends with Google these days.

Three tiers, the basic one (among other differences) has something they call Standard Definition, and the middle one has "HD Avalaible". What is their definition of HD and doublew the fudge is Standard Definition? Is it as in old SDTV, and in that case, exactly which one?

In short, how hard is it supposed ti be to find out what resolution their stuff is available at?


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## rtwjunkie (Jan 6, 2016)

As I understand it, with movies, SD is ye old square movies, and HD is 1080p widescreen.


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## cadaveca (Jan 6, 2016)

sdtv, yep, maybe 720p for some content. middle tier is 1080P, top tier is 4k.


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## Frick (Jan 6, 2016)

Ok. So what exactly? Give me pixels x pixels. 4:3 or 16:9? PAL pr NTSC?


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## rtwjunkie (Jan 6, 2016)

Frick said:


> Ok. So what exactly? Give me pixels x pixels. 4:3 or 16:9? PAL pr NTSC?



SD is almost always going to be 4:3.


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## RCoon (Jan 6, 2016)

SD = 480p = 640x480 = 4:3
HD "Ready" = 720p = 1280x720 (sometimes 768) = 16:9
HD = 1080p = 1920x1080 = 16:9
Wide Quad HD = 1440p = 2560x1440 = 16:9
Wide Quad Extended Graphics Array = 1600p = 2560x1600 = 16:10
UHD/4K = 2160p = 3840x2160 = 16:9

240 and 360 are actually categorized as "low definition", although to some companies like T-Mobile in the US, the term they use is "optimized". Anything categorized as SD or below is 4:3

Edit: added details


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## Frick (Jan 6, 2016)

RCoon said:


> SD = 480p = 640x480 = 4:3



As always I blame America and their inferiour technology. Could have been 768×576.


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## taz420nj (Jan 6, 2016)

Actually as far as Netflix tiers go, all they're doing is throttling your connections to their servers.  It doesn't affect the aspect, so unless the content was only released in 4:3 (The Wizard of Oz for example) it will be in 16:9 or 2.35:1/OAR.  The SD tier is limited to 1Mbps per stream, the HD tier is limited to 8Mbps per stream, and there is no limit on the 4K tier.

This works because Netflix changes the stream quality dynamically.  You can see it starts out at low bitrate, then gets progressively higher as it buffers and tests the connection.  If the buffer runs dry it drops to a lower bitrate.  So if you start an episode of House of Cards (which is available in 4K), it will start at SD quality, then it will try to load higher and higher bitrates until it hits a point where it can't keep the buffer full.  If you pay for the 4K tier it should be able to go all the way up to the 16Mbps 4K level (unless your ISP can't keep up). If you pay for the HD tier then you will be throttled to 8Mbps by their servers so it will remain at 1080p.


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## Wrigleyvillain (Jan 6, 2016)

I knew this was 480P! Thats because I'm old.


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## hat (Jan 7, 2016)

When thinking Standard Definition, think DVD. DVDs _can_ be widescreen, though. They're almost (I use the term almost because I'm not 100% sure) always 720x480 (for NTSC, PAL is a different resolution) and can be either interlaced or progressive (480i or 480p). However, you can get widescreen (roughly 853x480) by applying a 16:9 aspect ratio (or, this is sometimes referred to as 32/27 PAR, Pixel Aspect Ratio). If you look at the actual video itself, it will still show 720x480, though, because it's going to be _stored_ in that resolution, but it's going to be _displayed_ as roughly 853x480 (by applying the 16:9 aspect ratio, or the 32/27 PAR).

Also, I find it worth mentioning that DVD resolution is _not_ 4:3. It's actually 3:2 (or, you could call this a 1.5:1 aspect ratio: 480*1.5=720).

Again, this is all NTSC. I'm not sure if the same things exist for PAL, but if they (probably) do, I'm not sure of the exact maths because I don't/have yet to deal with anything PAL.


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## Aquinus (Jan 7, 2016)

Frick said:


> As always I blame America and their inferiour technology. Could have been 768×576.


I would take 60Hz interlaced over 50Hz interlaced with slightly higher resolution any day.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 7, 2016)

Frick said:


> As always I blame America and their inferiour technology. Could have been 768×576.


Yeah, it's ATSC's (digital) adaptation of NTSC's (analog) 4:3 picture.  ATSC only supports 4 resolutions (progressive or interlaced with frequencies ranging from 23.976 to 60 Hz):
640x480 (Digital TV or SD)
704x480 (Digital TV or SD)
1280x720 (HD)
1920x1080 (HD)

ATSC also supports PAL resolutions but...I don't think I've ever seen them.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 7, 2016)

Or did Europeans?  An American (Philo Farnsworth) invented the TV, USA had the first terrestrial TV station (W2XB), and NTSC (1941) predates PAL (1962) by two decades after all.


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## taz420nj (Jan 7, 2016)

Then we REALLY screwed it up by going with ATSC instead of DVB lol!


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## Mussels (Jan 7, 2016)

SD on netflix is 16:9

Its merely bitrate capped to a lower bandwidth - they do change resolutions, but mostly its just bitrate changes.

You're paying extra for higher quality streams, is all. Nothing to do with the old SD TV standards or resolutions.


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## taz420nj (Jan 7, 2016)

Mussels said:


> SD on netflix is 16:9
> 
> Its merely bitrate capped to a lower bandwidth - they do change resolutions, but mostly its just bitrate changes.
> 
> You're paying extra for higher quality streams, is all. Nothing to do with the old SD TV standards or resolutions.



.... lol which is what I explained 6 hours ago....


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## Mussels (Jan 7, 2016)

i must have missed the one correct answer in all the technical jargon about hating on television standards


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## taz420nj (Jan 7, 2016)

Mussels said:


> i must have missed the one correct answer in all the technical jargon about hating on television standards


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## newtekie1 (Jan 7, 2016)

hat said:


> When thinking Standard Definition, think DVD. DVDs _can_ be widescreen, though. They're almost (I use the term almost because I'm not 100% sure) always 720x480 (for NTSC, PAL is a different resolution) and can be either interlaced or progressive (480i or 480p). However, you can get widescreen (roughly 853x480) by applying a 16:9 aspect ratio (or, this is sometimes referred to as 32/27 PAR, Pixel Aspect Ratio). If you look at the actual video itself, it will still show 720x480, though, because it's going to be _stored_ in that resolution, but it's going to be _displayed_ as roughly 853x480 (by applying the 16:9 aspect ratio, or the 32/27 PAR).
> 
> Also, I find it worth mentioning that DVD resolution is _not_ 4:3. It's actually 3:2 (or, you could call this a 1.5:1 aspect ratio: 480*1.5=720).
> 
> Again, this is all NTSC. I'm not sure if the same things exist for PAL, but if they (probably) do, I'm not sure of the exact maths because I don't/have yet to deal with anything PAL.



Actually, I'm pretty sure the 16:9 on DVDs is achieved by lowering the resolution to 640x360, not increasing it.

I think it is funny that we label video quality the way we do.

SD = 480p
HD = 720p
FHD = 1080p

But the thing is, those are the height measurements.  The height measurements can always be different, lower than the label.  The thing that doesn't change is the width.  So what we really should be labeling them is:

SD = 720w
HD = 1280w
FHD = 1920w

Because the width is always the same, they get the different aspect ratios by lowering the height.  So when a movie is in an ultrawide 21:9 aspect ratio, the HD version would be 1280x549.

To answer the OP's original question directly, since it hasn't been yet(Sorry taz, didn't see your post).  Neflix content will be presenting in the aspect ratio it was originally released in, regardless of what plan you pick.  The SD content will always have a width of 720, but the height will vary depending on the aspect ratio of the original content.  So an old movie will be 720x480(3:2), if the movie is originally 16:9 then the resolution will be 720x405(16:9), a newer movie that was originally 21:9 will be 720x309(~21:9).  They aren't going to change the aspect ratio of the content.


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## RCoon (Jan 7, 2016)

newtekie1 said:


> UHD = 1080p


I've never seen anyone label 1080p as UHD

UHD has been classified as 4K since 2012



newtekie1 said:


> To answer the OP's original question directly, since it hasn't been yet.



It actually was by @taz420nj and @hat


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## cdawall (Jan 7, 2016)

RCoon said:


> I've never seen anyone label 1080p as UHD
> 
> UHD has been classified as 4K since 2012



That's because he is wrong

SD 480P
HD 720P
FHD 1080P
QHD 1440P
UHD 2160P


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## newtekie1 (Jan 7, 2016)

RCoon said:


> I've never seen anyone label 1080p as UHD
> 
> UHD has been classified as 4K since 2012



Yes, you're right.  That is what I get for posting before coffee.  I meant FHD.



RCoon said:


> It actually was by @taz420nj and @hat



Yeah, didn't see taz420nj's post.  Hat's post on the other hand, was wrong, which is why I corrected it.


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## Tatty_One (Jan 7, 2016)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Or did Europeans?  An American (Philo Farnsworth) invented the TV, USA had the first terrestrial TV station (W2XB), and NTSC (1941) predates PAL (1962) by two decades after all.


It can't be our fault, Europe does not have a single standard, it actually has 4 different standards dependant on where you are, we are always so consistently inconsistent don't you know


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## bogmali (Jan 7, 2016)

Stay on topic gents. The thread is about resolution and not who's standard is better or who is to blame for the changes (or the lack thereof).


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## hat (Jan 10, 2016)

newtekie1 said:


> Actually, I'm pretty sure the 16:9 on DVDs is achieved by lowering the resolution to 640x360, not increasing it.



How sure are you? I've been working with standard and widescreen DVDs for some time now, and I first noticed this while ripping South Park. The older seasons, being 3:2, were stored in 720*480 and were displayed as 720*480. The newer ones, being 16:9, showed that they were stored as 720*480 but displayed as ~853x480. Visually comparing one of each side by side showed one wider than the other, yet with equal height. This page covers the issue:

https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/AnamorphicGuide


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 10, 2016)

DVD-Video uses MPEG-2 and  a very limited set of resolutions (NTSC: 720 × 480; PAL: 720 x 576), frames per second (NTSC: 29.97; PAL: 25), color depth (24-bit), and color sampling (4:2:0) for maximum compatibility.  Apparently even 4:3 movies on DVD are 720x480.


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## hat (Jan 10, 2016)

I've never seen a 4:3 DVD yet, only 3:2 and 16:9... but I imagine it would work the same way 16:9 DVDs do, store in 720x480, display in another resolution with clever tricks. Though, applying 4:3 over top of 720x480 would actually yield a _lower_ resolution...







Wait a minute... disregard this, as I'm encountering a bit of a mindfuck now... I just checked some of my older rips from back when I first started doing this and they're stored in 720x480 yet display 640x480. That's... wat

I don't even know what I did


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## BiggieShady (Jan 10, 2016)

hat said:


> I don't even know what I did


Your older dvd is meant to be presented in 4:3 format (1.33 aspect ratio) and the actual file is always 720x480 for NTSC DVDs (1.5 aspect ratio). So your dvd has a "aspect ratio flag" that tells player to distort it from 1.5 aspect ratio to 1.33 aspect ratio.


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## hat (Jan 10, 2016)

I can't believe that it's stored in 720x480 and displayed as less. That means it's actually using up more space than what the actual display picture should be. Conversely, you gain a bigger picture than the actual stored space with the 16:9 aspect ratio. Spooky...


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## dorsetknob (Jan 10, 2016)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Or did Europeans?  An American (Philo Farnsworth) invented the TV, USA had the first terrestrial TV station (W2XB), and NTSC (1941) predates PAL (1962) by two decades after all.



*BBC Television* is a service of the British Broadcasting Corporation. The corporation, which has operated in the United Kingdom under the terms of a Royal charter since 1927, has produced television programmes from its own studios since 1932, although the start of its regular service of television broadcasts is dated to 2 November 1936

Baird Television Ltd. made Britain's first television broadcast, on 30 September 1929 from its studio in Long Acre, London, via the BBC's London transmitter, using the electromechanical system pioneered by John Logie Baird. This system used a vertically-scanned image of 30 lines – just enough resolution for a close-up of one person, and with a bandwidth low enough to use existing radio transmitters. Simultaneous transmission of sound and picture was achieved on 30 March 1930, by using the BBC's new twin transmitter at Brookmans Park. By late 1930, 30 minutes of morning programmes were broadcast Monday to Friday, and 30 minutes at midnight on Tuesdays and Fridays, after BBC radio went off the air. Baird broadcasts via the BBC continued until June 1932.

Sorry America Britain was there 1st


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 10, 2016)

We're talking standards.  Before NTSC was proprietary systems with limited reach.  What they had back then was akin to what Dish Network and DirecTV have today.


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## Shen (Jan 10, 2016)

For DVD and DVB, SD can be either 4:3 od 16:9. Both actually have same resolution (PAL 720x576), but different pixels. We're used to pixels being square, but in 16:9 image they are rectangle. So 720x576 "rectangles" "becomes" 1024x576 "squares" when you apply correct aspect ratio to display the image in 16:9 aspect ratio on square pixel monitor.

What I wrote only applies to DVD and DVB-T/S. Netflix, YouTube and other streaming services use square pixels and different resolutions for SD.


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## dorsetknob (Jan 10, 2016)

*Netflix recommends:*

* Quality* *Required download speed* *Ref*
Required 0.5 Mbit/s [281]
Recommended 1.5 Mbit/s [281]
SD 3.0 Mbit/s [281]
HD (720p & 1080p) 5.0 Mbit/s [281]
Ultra HD (2160p) 25 Mbit/s [282]
*Netflix common streaming quality and resolutions:*

*Quality* *Resolution* *Aspect Ratio*
235 320 x 240 4:3
375 384 x 288 4:3
560 512 x 384 4:3
750 512 x 384 4:3
1050 640 x 480 4:3
1750 720 x 480 3:2
2350 1280 x 720 16:9
3000 1280 x 720 16:9
4300 1920 x 1080 16:9
5800 1920 x 1080 16:9

source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netflix#Throttling_of_DVDs_by_mail


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## Easy Rhino (Jan 10, 2016)

Love me some unlimited netflix at UHD. Balls to the wall American style!!!


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## rtwjunkie (Jan 10, 2016)

dorsetknob said:


> Sorry America Britain was there 1st



WTF? Who the hell cares about shit like that? Does it make any difference in ANYthing in the world? Why are ANYbody concerned about first, last, etc?!!


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## Nosada (Jan 10, 2016)

dorsetknob said:


> Sorry America Britain was there 1st


Nope:
"the first long-distance public television broadcast from Washington, D.C., on 7 April 1927". The yanks have the islanders beat by about 2 years.


rtwjunkie said:


> WTF? Who the hell cares about shit like that? Does it make any difference in ANYthing in the world? Why are ANYbody concerned about first, last, etc?!!


Because facts are important. That, and I get this warm, fuzzy feeling when I correct someone.


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## rtwjunkie (Jan 10, 2016)

Nosada said:


> Nope:
> "the first long-distance public television broadcast from Washington, D.C., on 7 April 1927". The yanks have the islanders beat by about 2 years.
> 
> Because facts are important. That, and I get this warm, fuzzy feeling when I correct someone.


None of the who was first in anything makes one bit of difference. We as HUMANS make advances, and they benefit the whole human race.  That's all that's important. 

Take the knowledge of who discovered something or who set a standard, or who manufactured something first or who landed on the moon or who landed on a comet first, and the cup of coffee you buy will cost the same.  It makes zero difference and is pointless


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## newtekie1 (Jan 10, 2016)

hat said:


> How sure are you? I've been working with standard and widescreen DVDs for some time now, and I first noticed this while ripping South Park. The older seasons, being 3:2, were stored in 720*480 and were displayed as 720*480. The newer ones, being 16:9, showed that they were stored as 720*480 but displayed as ~853x480. Visually comparing one of each side by side showed one wider than the other, yet with equal height. This page covers the issue:
> 
> https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/AnamorphicGuide



Thousands of ripped DVDs sure.



hat said:


> I can't believe that it's stored in 720x480 and displayed as less. That means it's actually using up more space than what the actual display picture should be. Conversely, you gain a bigger picture than the actual stored space with the 16:9 aspect ratio. Spooky...



It makes sense if you think about it. When the DVD standard was made, tv's could only accept a very limited set of resolutions. It was basically NTSC only. This was before digital connectors or even VGA was common on tv's. So, if the only output resolution you can use is 720x480, why store the content in 853x480 just to have to down scale it to display it. It is easier to store it as 720x405. Some even went as far as storing it as 720x480 and I have had to crop out the black bars when I rip them, otherwise you are wasting space encoding black nothing at the top and bottom of each frame. Though that was on early DVDs, most use 720x405 now.

There are some that use 853x480, and it has become more common, but 720x405 is still most common thanks to the NTSC standard.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 10, 2016)

My understanding is that in the MPEG-2 codec, there is no "black bars."  The playback device does that to get the aspect ratio right.


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## newtekie1 (Jan 10, 2016)

FordGT90Concept said:


> My understanding is that in the MPEG-2 codec, there is no "black bars."  The playback device does that to get the aspect ratio right.



On some movie the black bars are encoded into the frame.  I know, stupid, but that is how some did it. It is why some movies when played on a widescreen TV have black bars on all 4 sides. The TV thinks it is displaying a 2:3 video.


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## vega22 (Jan 10, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> WTF? Who the hell cares about shit like that? Does it make any difference in ANYthing in the world? Why are ANYbody concerned about first, last, etc?!!



the guy who said america was broadcasting first i think xD

we are really in a strange time with this. i have seen br on sale with full hd 1080 stuff that was originally record on vhs....black bars down the sides and everything.

i really can't wait till i see fu hd screens on sale xD


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## hat (Jan 10, 2016)

newtekie1 said:


> Thousands of ripped DVDs sure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Alright, I'll hand it to you then. I just haven't seen it (yet) in my personal experience.



vega22 said:


> the guy who said america was broadcasting first i think xD
> 
> we are really in a strange time with this. i have seen br on sale with full hd 1080 stuff that was originally record on vhs....black bars down the sides and everything.
> 
> i really can't wait till i see fu hd screens on sale xD



I read about that. Evidently it has something to do with the way analog film works. Depending on the size of the film, it can store a _lot_ of detail... and with older technologies such as DVD and especially VHS, that which was reproduced actually held very little from the original. If you take that same film and copy it to Blu-Ray format, you're able to store much greater detail than you could with older tech.


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## xorbe (Jan 10, 2016)

In settings I see Auto, Low, Medium, High.  Where does OP see SD vs HD?  Afaik the setting controls bitrate, not aspect ratio.


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## hat (Jan 10, 2016)

A bit off topic, but I do indeed see some of my older work with a 4:3 aspect ratio, 8/9 PAR, being stored as 720x480 yet displayed as 640x480.

Meh, I already planned on reworking this series anyway...


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## newtekie1 (Jan 10, 2016)

xorbe said:


> In settings I see Auto, Low, Medium, High.  Where does OP see SD vs HD?  Afaik the setting controls bitrate, not aspect ratio.



Nothing will change the aspect ratio, it will remain whatever the original content is. However, the bitrate allowed will change the resolution the video is played at as well as quality.  Where the OP is seeing HD and SD is on the plan pricing page/sign up page.  They word it as Standard Definition for the basic plan, HD available for the standard plan, and Ultra HD available for the premium plan.


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## Deleted member 67555 (Jan 10, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> None of the who was first in anything makes one bit of difference. We as HUMANS make advances, and they benefit the whole human race.  That's all that's important.
> 
> Take the knowledge of who discovered something or who set a standard, or who manufactured something first or who landed on the moon or who landed on a comet first, and the cup of coffee you buy will cost the same.  It makes zero difference and is pointless


It does matter because the name usually coincides with who, what, when and where it was done....
Think about it....Algebra, .com, Grenade and Flatulence....
Algebra is easily Arabic....
.com is American
Grenade obviously comes from France
Flatulence is obviously from the UK...LOL
I kinda agree with you actually...we are one people.

OH and anyways....
Netflix does not allow you to have unlimited UHD...
right now you only get 1 4k stream and 2 1080p streams and everything else will be 720p..unless that's a ISP thing
I tried via a ROKU 4, Roku 3, Roku Streaming stick and 2 TCL Roku tv's
EDIT: EDIT:
I think without 4k you can have as many 1080p streams
EDIT: EDIT: EDIT:
While slightly funny the "Ridiculous 6" was ridiculously stupid but was nice to see 4k


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