# Mixer output to active speakers.



## Machinegun89 (Jun 16, 2022)

I am involved in a project at a local chrch. They have installed 4 conductor 22ga wire for the main out to active speakers. Does the wire have to be shielded? The main out is line level. do I have to rewire?


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## niko084 (Jun 16, 2022)

Is the signal low or high voltage? (audio output vs speaker output) -- Is there interference noise in the system? (hum, buzz, etc)
For best direction I need to get an idea of what exactly you are working with and how it's connected.


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## looniam (Jun 16, 2022)

the speaker wires do not need to be insulated.


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## Steevo (Jun 16, 2022)

Since you are saying it’s mixer/line level out, as long as the wiring isn’t ran close by power wires or anything emitting RF in the amplified range it will be OK. A easy way to check is with a digital multimeter, set to AC and see if voltage appears when the line is connected together without anything else connected. If there is check the Hz function to see what range it’s in and or turn off lights etc… until it disappears. Also doesn’t hurt to plug in a vacuum or something in various places to see if you get any feedback from that.

Do they have a feedback exterminator in line? Sabine FBX-2410 for example. Without it a lot of loud auditoriums get stupid amounts of unwanted whine, when I ran sound booth for some events a good practice was to also keep one filter open during sound changes in case a new source of feedback was introduced.


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## looniam (Jun 16, 2022)

Steevo said:


> Do they have a feedback exterminator in line? Sabine FBX-2410 for example. Without it a lot of loud auditoriums get stupid amounts of unwanted whine, when I ran sound booth for some events a good practice was to also keep one filter open during sound changes in case a new source of feedback was introduced.


what the hell gear where you using???
ran audio for indoor/outdoor events, concerts, churches . . for 8 years and never need to worry.
yamaha, midas, allen &heath mixing boards, (along w/mackie junk). crown, QSV amps and using (mostly) JBL(drivers) in subs and martin audio boxes.

churches' acoustics are another ballgame - it really takes someone who knows what their doing, good luck to the OP if he's worried about speaker wire, seems he's got a long road ahead.


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## Steevo (Jun 16, 2022)

looniam said:


> what the hell gear where you using???
> ran audio for indoor/outdoor events, concerts, churches . . for 8 years and never need to worry.
> yamaha, midas, allen &heath mixing boards, (along w/mackie junk). crown, QSV amps and using (mostly) JBL(drivers) in subs and martin audio boxes.
> 
> churches' acoustics are another ballgame - it really takes someone who knows what their doing, good luck to the OP if he's worried about speaker wire, seems he's got a long road ahead.


Some church stuff when I was younger, some Q and A stuff at hotels/meeting halls. Mostly during Q and A with roaming mics at meetings. 


Audio is a art learned and very hardly taught.


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## looniam (Jun 16, 2022)

Steevo said:


> Audio is a art learned and very hardly taught.


sorry but that almost makes my blood boil.

started out as a bouncer in a punk bar and the owner of the installed system thought, "he's a big guy, he can push gear around!" the rest as they say, is history.

out of the several dozens audio engineers i've ran accross, both local and touring (hello RAT and showco!) would all be more than happy to share their exp/knowledge, most were all more than happy to pridefully show off their gear. esp one local guy (rip dale), most of my question was usually answered with, "it depends on the sin wave . ."

on the other hand there would be idiots from the local community college that thought they knew something - mixing live audio in headphones only; ignoring acoustics.  

yeah their attitudes would get them brushed off quickly. but again, if it wasn't for other audio engineers, granted since i "worked" w/them it was better for them that i know more . . . but no, can't say it was an exclusive club at all.

sorry if your experience tells you other. you missed a lot of good conversations over a beer or two or dozen.


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## Machinegun89 (Jun 17, 2022)

niko084 said:


> Is the signal low or high voltage? (audio output vs speaker output) -- Is there interference noise in the system? (hum, buzz, etc)
> For best direction I need to get an idea of what exactly you are working with and how it's connected.


Connecting to the main out on a Yamaha MGP32X. I understand the need for shielding on a mic cable but this is line level and I have used only 2 wire in the past. Does that help. I have a Behringer powered speaker mounted on the wall. 




Steevo said:


> Since you are saying it’s mixer/line level out, as long as the wiring isn’t ran close by power wires or anything emitting RF in the amplified range it will be OK. A easy way to check is with a digital multimeter, set to AC and see if voltage appears when the line is connected together without anything else connected. If there is check the Hz function to see what range it’s in and or turn off lights etc… until it disappears. Also doesn’t hurt to plug in a vacuum or something in various places to see if you get any feedback from that.
> 
> Do they have a feedback exterminator in line? Sabine FBX-2410 for example. Without it a lot of loud auditoriums get stupid amounts of unwanted whine, when I ran sound booth for some events a good practice was to also keep one filter open during sound changes in case a new source of feedback was introduced.


I think I'll be OK to finish this job for the church. Just don't want to run new wire. It's hot as bloody hell in an attic in florida right now.


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## niko084 (Jun 17, 2022)

Coax typically does not require shielding and when shielded it needs to be grounded, be mindful of the routing. 3 wire XLR/TRS for signals to speakers for best results, if supported by the speaker. These cables use balanced signals to cancel noise, it works exceptionally well. I have about total of 125ft of XLR cable behind my desk in a mess of electrical runs and where my pc sits, and it doesn't pickup the slightly bit of noise. -- Take care of these cables, not cheap, and they are more fragile than they seem.


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## looniam (Jun 17, 2022)

Machinegun89 said:


> Connecting to the main out on a Yamaha MGP32X. I understand the need for shielding on a mic cable but this is line level and I have used only 2 wire in the past. Does that help. I have a Behringer powered speaker mounted on the wall.


whirlwind is your friend (RTM on those speakers and all your questions will be answered!)


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## bobbybluz (Jun 17, 2022)

A: Go to Monoprice.com and buy XLR cables of the needed length then connect them.
B: Go to Ebay and buy knock-offs of Neutrik XLR connectors then solder them on the ends of the wire already run. Pay attention to getting the pinouts correct. Pin 1 is ground, pin 2 is hot and pin 3 is cold. Neutrik type XLR connectors are the easiest to work with. I have no idea of how many hundreds of XLR cables I've made or repaired in the past 40+ years. I've always used high quality shielded cable and have never had a problem with noise with balanced inputs/outputs.

I do miss having unlimited access to free cable when I was doing Pro audio and broadcast radio. We got cable in 500 and 1000 ft rolls most of the time. I was always the designated cable maker for interconnects, mic cords and speaker cables. If you don't have good soldering skills Monoprice is the place to buy premade XLR cables. Good luck with that Behringer gear, some of their stuff is actually quite good for the money and some of their offerings are junk. For powered speakers I'm a dedicated Electro-Voice user for my band PA's. For my A/V workstations I use JBL.


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## Steevo (Jun 17, 2022)

looniam said:


> sorry but that almost makes my blood boil.
> 
> started out as a bouncer in a punk bar and the owner of the installed system thought, "he's a big guy, he can push gear around!" the rest as they say, is history.
> 
> ...



I was young and my tendency to fiddle with things probably didn’t help, when I started working booths I wasn’t old enough to drink, not that it stopped me most of the time. But it was a feeling I got that many of the people had a kind of shit attitude about how things were setup and how they would never use Shure mics or Yamaha or whatever.

I am glad to teach and learn from anyone as long as they reciprocate.


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## looniam (Jun 18, 2022)

Steevo said:


> I was young and my tendency to fiddle with things probably didn’t help, when I started working booths I wasn’t old enough to drink, not that it stopped me most of the time. But it was a feeling I got that many of the people had a kind of shit attitude about how things were setup and how they would never use Shure mics or Yamaha or whatever.
> 
> I am glad to teach and learn from anyone as long as they reciprocate.


ah.

yeah, though its probably not what you meant exactly but, my recall did neglect the stereotypical disgruntled/drunk sound guys who are stuck mixing crappy local bands in venues that are less than desirable and owned by shady douchebags, and working with less than decent gear. toss in hating themselves for not owning a reputable studio and/or touring with their most favorite artist/band.

they are a hoot but bad for professionalism.  i have grab gigs for a quick $60 and some free beer to mix a show for a few hours and get placed in some challenging and totally unnecessary problems. so in that instance i really didn't have any time for anyone since i was busy putting out the fires in the gear and trying to minimize the misery the band's sounds were causing the audience (if there was one).

but as i maybe alluded to before, that fortunately wasn't my first, common or most common experience(s). instead of writing a wall of text, lookie see some mementos from some of my favorite gigs might speak as well  . . . and whipping it out maybe a little   

*!ACKTUNG!* never claimed to be a photographer.


Spoiler



















cool story bro file:
pat benetar's tour hired showco, now st.clair(?) for audio reinforcement and they were the first tour i seen using digico's touch screen mixers (if the dates on the passes/laminates didn't  date me, that sure should)  and the monitor tech spend about an hour during down time going over all the advantages and disadvantages. and speaking of which, also the first band that everyone had in ears, so  . . . .

i better just stop there and going all OT.

thanks for chatting.


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## 80251 (Jun 18, 2022)

@looniam 
That's an eclectic mix of bands. Slayer, Megadeth, Snoop Dog, Chicago, the GoGo's and Danzig didn't play together often (maybe Slayer and Megadeth). So are your ears still ringing?


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## looniam (Jun 18, 2022)

@80251  not really. outdoors shows aren't bad and loud is desirable, it's some frequencies that aren't.


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## 80251 (Jun 18, 2022)

looniam said:


> @80251  not really. outdoors shows aren't bad and loud is desirable, it's some frequencies that aren't.


Did you wear earplugs when on the job? Do the musicians wear earplugs (something I always wondered)?


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## looniam (Jun 18, 2022)

80251 said:


> Did you wear earplugs when on the job? Do the musicians wear earplugs (something I always wondered)?


psa:
generally, exposure to 80+db (really ~70) 2-4 hours a day would make ear plugs a good idea.  

naw, not really, unless it was ted nugent's "wall of peavey" - which made my hair angry. 

i think the deal is, besides how loud or what frequencies, how important is it to hear everything?

mixing at the front of house (FOH, what the audience hears) the deal is really on them as the control everything. so if the audience is going to experience pain (which they probably did not pay - except some shows lol.) then either them or the gear is not doing their job. also there is a need at times to use headphones (good cans!) to cue a channel (isolate a mic/direct input) and hear just that is if something sounds off; earplugs would be a pita with that.

now mixing the stage monitors (what the band/artist hears) could be different. it depends if the system has a snake w/splitter box (what you plug into onstage) that has two outputs, each to a separate mixing console FOH and one just off stage. ear plugs are usually advisable there because are you are more so at the band's mercy for sound levels and just *how* they sound. the big thing is there is the advantage of a cue wedge - probably the same or close to speaker wedge sitting on stage in front of the artists - instead of a pair of cans. so a little piece of foam is no problem for 300-500 watts if you need to cue anything. 

on a side note- if you asked someone who is involved in lighting and doesn't have to hear as much as see, they stuff in ear plugs 24/7 if you catch the drift.


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## 80251 (Jun 19, 2022)

@looniam
That was really interesting. I'm surprised you didn't wear earplugs though. Did you do in-studio work too?

I remember reading when the Beatles played their last gig (at Candlestick Park [RIP]) they could barely hear their instruments over the crowd of screamers.


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