# ZOTAC Watercools GeForce 9800 GTX+ , Names it ZONE Edition



## malware (Aug 2, 2008)

ZOTAC International, an award-winning NVIDIA AIC, today unleashes the latest edition to its ZONE Edition line of quiet graphics cards - the ZOTAC GeForce 9800 GTX+ ZONE Edition. The new ZOTAC GeForce 9800 GTX+ ZONE Edition delivers the power of NVIDIA GeForce 9 series graphics power, PhysX technology and PureVideo HD video processing technology into a virtually silent graphics card. The ZOTAC GeForce 9800 GTX+ ZONE Edition is quieted by a custom water-cooling system and able to deliver phenomenal visuals and frame rate in DirectX 10 and OpenGL 2.1 titles while maintaining low thermal and noise levels.



 




Unlike conventional water-cooling units, the ZOTAC GeForce 9800 GTX+ ZONE Edition features a self-contained water-cooling system that requires no end-user maintenance. The self-contained unit comes already attached to the graphics card and only requires the user to mount the 120mm fan and radiator module. 

"Many users seek to quiet their systems. Previously, our ZONE Edition models were limited to our ZOTAC GeForce 8-series, with the new ZOTAC GeForce 9800 GTX+ ZONE Edition, we're able to deliver NVIDIA GeForce 9 graphics technology to quiet computing users," said Carsten Berger, marketing director, ZOTAC International (MCO) Ltd. "And because the water-cooling unit is self-contained, customers can have the high performance and quiet operation of water-cooling without the hassles of regular maintenance or installation, which often voids the factory graphics card warranty."

The ZOTAC GeForce 9800 GTX ZONE Edition comes backed by the standard ZOTAC graphics card warranty to ensure users that the ZOTAC GeForce 9800 GTX ZONE Edition and its water cooler are guaranteed for long-term use.

Harnessing the power of NVIDIA's GeForce 9800 GTX+ GPU, the ZOTAC GeForce 9800 GTX+ ZONE Edition delivers compatibility with NVIDIA PhysX technology for immersive gaming that blurs the line between reality and gaming. With NVIDIA PhysX technology, the ZOTAC GeForce 9800 GTX+ ZONE Edition delivers realistic weather, explosion effects and environmental interaction previously thought impossible.

Enjoy high-performance and quiet computing from a single graphics card with the ZOTAC GeForce 9800 GTX+ ZONE Edition.

*General details*
New ZOTAC GeForce 9800 GTX+ ZONE Edition
ZOTAC Water-cooling system
High-performance, quiet computing 
NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GTX+
512MB of GDDR3 memory
128 processor cores
3-way SLI ready
HybridPower compatible
NVIDIA PhysX ready
NVIDIA CUDA ready
PCI Express 2.0 interface (Compatible with 1.1)
DirectX 10 with Shader Model 4.0 compatible
OpenGL 2.1 compatible
PureVideo HD technology with hardware decoding of high-definition video formats
Dual dual-link DVI - up to 2560x1600

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## Mussels (Aug 2, 2008)

that.... seems lame.

they talk about being 'limited' to geforce 8 until now... 'cept the 9 series is the same G92 core so its the same. Only if it was a GTX280 would i care.

oh and looking at the tubing it could be a real ass to mount - fixed lengths could be too long or too short for the majority of people who get this card.


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## PCpraiser100 (Aug 2, 2008)

One giant step for stupidity while we wish they will just did that to the GTX 200 series.


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## ShadowFold (Aug 2, 2008)

I love the idea its just the 9800GTX is kinda worthless now.. And its gonna be pricey cause of the liquid system. Probably the price of a GTX 260!


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## newtekie1 (Aug 2, 2008)

A water cooled card...and it isn't being released by Saphire...


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## Selene (Aug 2, 2008)

I have been looking at coolits SLI cooling for the GTX200 cards, it looks nice, and can run 1 or 2 cards.
Its alittle pricey, wish their was a way to use it on more then 1 gen of cards.
They make it for the G80 cards and GTX200 only right now.


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## thoughtdisorder (Aug 2, 2008)

I can't help but think this is aimed for people who don't really understand about HW but want something "sexy" in their puter. Don't get me wrong, nice, but a lil late (9800)imo.


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## PrudentPrincess (Aug 2, 2008)

thoughtdisorder said:


> I can't help but think this is aimed for people who don't really understand about HW but want something "sexy" in their puter. Don't get me wrong, nice, but a lil late (9800)imo.



Yeah, it's the same as the Fatal1ty series of products. "Tested by a 30-something year old with nothing better to do with his life than pretend he knows about computer hardware"


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## robspierre6 (Aug 2, 2008)

*9800gtx+*

Nothing special at all.
It's a 9800gtx with higher clocks.
The 4850 from ATI beats the 9800gtx/gtx+."check at techreport/tomshardware"
Another stupid step from nvidia.the 280gtx has a 578mm of die size.yet,the 4870 with a 
234mm die competes with the 280gtx.
nvidia needs to come up with a new architecture and to improve it's quality.
the coverage scene aa  used in the 8000/9000/200 series is crap compared to ATI's adaptive aa. with 8/16bits of colordepth and 1/2 textures via each added pixel vs 32/64bit  of colordepth and 4/8 textures with ATI's adaptive aa .
The LS-HDR used in the 200 series supports up to 2400 levels of shades.not bad,
But ATI's SSGA-HDR suports up tp 11040 level of shades.
NVIDIA's gamma correction doesn't cover over 4x aa. ATI's alpha gamma correction covers up to 24x aa.
Not talking about the damaged pixels you get when using aa and af at the same time 
with the geforce card. because of the mixed textures deliverd with the added pixels via the coverage aa.
killing quality for performance is the way nvidia does things.


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## TheGuruStud (Aug 2, 2008)

robspierre6 said:


> Nothing special at all.
> It's a 9800gtx with higher clocks.
> The 4850 from ATI beats the 9800gtx/gtx+."check at techreport/tomshardware"
> Another stupid step from nvidia.the 280gtx has a 578mm of die size.yet,the 4870 with a
> ...



Troll much, douche?



As long as you can switch out the hoses, I say it's a good idea. But only realistic if the value warrants it (can't cost too much or it's pointless).


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## newtekie1 (Aug 2, 2008)

I wouldn't say the 9800GTX is totally worthless right now, and that isn't just because I own two of them.

At stock it matches a 4850, it is cheaper than a 4850, and I can't think of a better card to get in the sub-$200 bracket.  IMO, it is a very fine card still.  I'm personally glad manufactures aren't focussing entirely on the extremely expensive cards and are showing some support for the affordable cards.


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## dalekdukesboy (Aug 2, 2008)

*I agree...*



newtekie1 said:


> I wouldn't say the 9800GTX is totally worthless right now, and that isn't just because I own two of them.
> 
> At stock it matches a 4850, it is cheaper than a 4850, and I can't think of a better card to get in the sub-$200 bracket.  IMO, it is a very fine card still.  I'm personally glad manufactures aren't focussing entirely on the extremely expensive cards and are showing some support for the affordable cards.



       Well, you have the biggest nuts of all these guys far as I'm concerned, because you didn't just go on the same tantrum everyone else goes on and just bash anything Nvidia...funny, people have short memories and forget things like the 2900xt or the 3000 series by Ati...now THOSE were just awesome cards weren't they??? I didn't think so...particularly not compared to the 8800 series and then the g92 variants including the 9800 gtx and now + version, and STILL Nvidia with its 280gtx has the overall fastest single video card in existance, yet all I hear is how it should be better, smaller, faster whatever the gripe is.  NOT saying there aren't issues with it or the 9800 but please, show some objectivity and remember your graphic card history a little better.  

    I've owned both ati cards and nvidia cards, so I'm not really biased at all, I prefer the fastest platform in reference to price and also heat/energy concerns and kudos to whichever company has that card at the time.  Sorry to be so caustic but I'm just a bit tired of this bandwagon bashing of late at Nvidia, for a while they were your ONLY real choice for a good video card while ATI was making the aforementioned joke cards namely the 2900xt, which uses the energy and produces heat practically on par with the 280 and would be an utter embarrasment if you actually graphed its graphical performance next to the 280, and the 3000 series is better but still quite a far cry from anything Nvidia produces at this point. 

    Anyway no offense to anyone, but that's just my opinion and I believe some of you are being very shortsighted even though SOME of your complaints are valid, true objectivity is lacking greatly...


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## spy2520 (Aug 2, 2008)

you gotta admit though, all the reviews seem to put the 4850 a decent amount above the 9800GTX+ performance wise and at almost the same price. From some points of view i can see how it is seen as wasted effort.


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Aug 2, 2008)

last time i checked 9800gtx+'s were going for 220ish

4850's go for 170 ish ...

its no competition


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## Bundy (Aug 2, 2008)

Several posts above question why Nvidia are focusing on 9800. I just scrolled back through the news posts on TPU and the 9000 series is mentioned often. It would seem at the moment that Nvidia and their partners are focusing on the mid-performance market rather than the top.


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## robspierre6 (Aug 2, 2008)

You  dalekdukesboy are a nvidia fanboi.comparing the 2000 series from ATI to nvidia's 200 series is totally stupid.
The  performance/mm of the 4870 is  2.5x of that of the 280gtx.So,lets compare the last generations from both manufacturers.
I don't know where you get your reviews from.i get mine from reiliable sites like tomshardware,techreport and anandtech.
 The 4870 with 2.5x smaller die than the 280gtx's beats the 280gtx in some games.
The g80 architecture is old now.nvidia has to come up with something better to compete with ATI.
It's not how many stream cores you can fit on that die,its the processing power"The number of constructions/flops a gpu can achieve in a single cycle" you can put on that die.
Now the 4870 can achieve 1200 Giga-Flops/cycle vs 933 Gig-Flops/cycle for the 280gtx.
And offensing people for their different opinions is no that way we argue here.


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## Dia01 (Aug 2, 2008)

bundyrum&coke said:


> Several posts above question why Nvidia are focusing on 9800. I just scrolled back through the news posts on TPU and the 9000 series is mentioned often. It would seem at the moment that Nvidia and their partners are focusing on the mid-performance market rather than the top.



Interesting point, maybe they are and trying to recover a little from the substantial price reductions of their top ends?


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## PrudentPrincess (Aug 2, 2008)

robspierre6 said:


> Anyway no offense to anyone, but that's just my opinion and I believe some of you are being very shortsighted even though SOME of your complaints are valid, true objectivity is lacking greatly...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Who bloody cares?
Troll elsewere.


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Aug 3, 2008)

rechecked 9800gtx+'s are 200


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## Megasty (Aug 3, 2008)

Aren't WC cards usually single slotted. TY Zotac for another useless overpriced card


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## Tatty_One (Aug 3, 2008)

robspierre6 said:


> Nothing special at all.
> It's a 9800gtx with higher clocks.
> The 4850 from ATI beats the 9800gtx/gtx+."check at techreport/tomshardware"
> Another stupid step from nvidia.the 280gtx has a 578mm of die size.yet,the 4870 with a
> ...



Just for the record and the sake of accuracy  (as opposed to fanboi...ism).....the 9800GTX+ is also actually a die shrink from 65nm to 55nm firstly, secondly it runs considerably cooler than the 4850, thirdly is tends to overclock a little better, ohhhh and fourthly it beats the 4850 in most benches, certainly at the most popular resolutions .....however, IMO the 4850 is def the better bang for buck and unless someone already has an SLi board and will be looking to SLi in the future.....the 4850 is the only way to go!

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/731/1/


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## TheGuruStud (Aug 3, 2008)

4850 can only win a couple times by a few fps when the res is 1900x1200 and aa and af is cranked up and a couple times with no aa or af. Both 9800s hold their ground.


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## dalekdukesboy (Aug 3, 2008)

*let's be real please*



robspierre6 said:


> Anyway no offense to anyone, but that's just my opinion and I believe some of you are being very shortsighted even though SOME of your complaints are valid, true objectivity is lacking greatly...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your post...speaks for itself, least mine is in something resembling the english language, and I wrote that I was speaking my opinion, which last I checked can be whatever I damn well please lol.  Anyhow my comparison wasn't even between the 280 vs the 2900xt directly it was to make a point that ATI has had some crappy years and until the 4000 series it had a heck of a long BAD drought of sub par video cards in ALL classes, entry level to the supposed enthusiast model 2900xt which as I pointed out was a flop.  Strange I'm such a Nvidia um (fanboi) as you put it when I still have my x1900xtx ati card in hand and always liked ATI and I still am considering getting a 4870 but I already have the 8800gts in sli and can't really afford it at this moment in time!!  All I was saying, is people have very short memories of what company is what and now that ATI is actually competitive again Nvidia is just getting bashed all over the place...so I'm simply trying to inject some sensibility and objectivity vs complete subjectivity on the subject. So you are robspierre ati "fanboi"!!! You speak of how people argue, I never called anyone stupid, however you did, and gigaflops by the way is great, but that isn't real life performance, put up the 4870 vs 280gtx game fps results and show me how ATI's card takes the crown...didn't think so.


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## newtekie1 (Aug 3, 2008)

spy2520 said:


> you gotta admit though, all the reviews seem to put the 4850 a decent amount above the 9800GTX+ performance wise and at almost the same price. From some points of view i can see how it is seen as wasted effort.



What reviews are these?  All the ones I have seen put the two about neck and neck at stock.  With the 9800GTX+ running cooler and overclocking better.

Can you show me some reviews otherwise?

The latest review done on this very site puts the 9800GTX(no +) within 2% of the HD4850 overall.



[I.R.A]_FBi said:


> last time i checked 9800gtx+'s were going for 220ish
> 
> 4850's go for 170 ish ...
> 
> its no competition



Putting this single special card aside.  The 9800GTX+ sells for $200 over at the egg.  The standard 9800GTX goes for $172 though, and it essentially matches the HD4850.  Though, IMO, the best bang for the buck still was with the 8800GTS 512MB.  They overclock to 9800GTX speeds, bringing them to within 2% of the HD4850, and can be had for $160.  Though the HD4850 available for $165 is also a damn good buy.  IMO, you can't really go wrong with any one of the cards.


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## robspierre6 (Aug 3, 2008)

dalekdukesboy said:


> Your post...speaks for itself, least mine is in something resembling the english language, and I wrote that I was speaking my opinion, which last I checked can be whatever I damn well please lol.  Anyhow my comparison wasn't even between the 280 vs the 2900xt directly it was to make a point that ATI has had some crappy years and until the 4000 series it had a heck of a long BAD drought of sub par video cards in ALL classes, entry level to the supposed enthusiast model 2900xt which as I pointed out was a flop.  Strange I'm such a Nvidia um (fanboi) as you put it when I still have my x1900xtx ati card in hand and always liked ATI and I still am considering getting a 4870 but I already have the 8800gts in sli and can't really afford it at this moment in time!!  All I was saying, is people have very short memories of what company is what and now that ATI is actually competitive again Nvidia is just getting bashed all over the place...so I'm simply trying to inject some sensibility and objectivity vs complete subjectivity on the subject. So you are robspierre ati "fanboi"!!! You speak of how people argue, I never called anyone stupid, however you did, and gigaflops by the way is great, but that isn't real life performance, put up the 4870 vs 280gtx game fps results and show me how ATI's card takes the crown...didn't think so.






Realy,and what's wrong with the 3800 series?
The 3870 was a very good midrange card ?
Secondly the 4800 series doesn't suffer from any heat issues.raising the fan speed up to 30% will idle the card at mid 40s..
Check at techreport or tomshardware for some real benchmarks.
Cuz you can't trust any site these days.
The 4870 competes directly with the 280gtx.
yet not talking about nvidia's cheap quality.


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## robspierre6 (Aug 3, 2008)

Tatty_One said:


> Just for the record and the sake of accuracy  (as opposed to fanboi...ism).....the 9800GTX+ is also actually a die shrink from 65nm to 55nm firstly, secondly it runs considerably cooler than the 4850, thirdly is tends to overclock a little better, ohhhh and fourthly it beats the 4850 in most benches, certainly at the most popular resolutions .....however, IMO the 4850 is def the better bang for buck and unless someone already has an SLi board and will be looking to SLi in the future.....the 4850 is the only way to go!
> 
> http://www.legitreviews.com/article/731/1/




Legitreview? I would call it nvidiaview.
Check at techreport/tomshardware then tell me what do you think.


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## TheGuruStud (Aug 3, 2008)

robspierre6 said:


> Realy,and what's wrong with the 3800 series 3800 series?
> The 4870 competes directly with the 280gtx.
> yet not talking about nvidia's cheap quality.


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## robspierre6 (Aug 3, 2008)

TheGuruStud said:


> 4850 can only win a couple times by a few fps when the res is 1900x1200 and aa and af is cranked up and a couple times with no aa or af. Both 9800s hold their ground.


WOW,where do you get your numbers from?


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## TheGuruStud (Aug 3, 2008)

robspierre6 said:


> WOW,where do you get your numbers from?



We're all done talking to a troll/delusional person. Bye.


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## robspierre6 (Aug 3, 2008)

TheGuruStud said:


> We're all done talking to a troll/delusional person. Bye.



Listen guru,you get different numbers from different sites.
i consider: guru3d,legitreview,tweaktown,newseeker,xtremesystems,bjorn3d.... unreliable sites.
I get my reviews from techreport and tomshardware.
You are a nvidia fanboi.you keep posting your comments supporting nvidia in every single thread.
I don't give a shit about what you think or what you consider right.
When you talk with someone,don't talk like an angry dog.post your opinion and support it with clean facts,if you can.


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## spy2520 (Aug 3, 2008)

newtekie1 said:


> What reviews are these?  All the ones I have seen put the two about neck and neck at stock.  With the 9800GTX+ running cooler and overclocking better.
> 
> Can you show me some reviews otherwise?
> 
> The latest review done on this very site puts the 9800GTX(no +) within 2% of the HD4850 overall.



there is a review on anandtech that shows the two cards going back and forth, each card winning half, but with the 4850 winning by more than 2% on average (more than 10 fps on some games). And having lower power consumption. *So i stand corrected, there is atleast one review i know of that shows a clear advantage going to AMD while showing that the cards are still very comparable.*


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## thoughtdisorder (Aug 3, 2008)

PrudentPrincess said:


> Yeah, it's the same as the Fatal1ty series of products. "Tested by a 30-something year old with nothing better to do with his life than pretend he knows about computer hardware"



Dead on Prudent!


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## robspierre6 (Aug 3, 2008)

thoughtdisorder said:


> Rob, first of all, welcome to TPU. Second of all, IMO and my Opinion only (not speaking for the site), while one is certainly entitled to their opinions here (and encouraged), there are certain things not advisable *right from the start*:
> 
> 1) Never get into a pissing contest with the mods (especially Dan). You WILL lose. (Love you Dan!)
> 
> ...



Disorder,firstly-don't talk like a dog when you can talk like a gentle person.
seconfly-i don't give a shit about who you or that guru is.
thirdly,i don't consider it a fight as you do.Its an argument.the one who "wins" is the one who can support his opinion with straight clean facts.
From different sites you get different reviews and numbers.
I have the 4870 and i know how it performs, cuz i do also have a 8800gt.
BTW,nobody asked any help from you.why do you appear and respond on behalf of the "knowledgeable" ones.


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## Mussels (Aug 3, 2008)

robspierre6 said:


> Disorder,firstly-don't talk like a dog when you can talk like a gentle person.
> seconfly-i don't give a shit about who you or that guru is.
> thirdly,i don't consider it a fight as you do.Its an argument.the one who "wins" is the one who can support his opinion with straight clean facts.
> From different sites you get different reviews and numbers.
> ...



i'm not sure where this started, but i'll say two things

1. never go to a place where you are new, and argue with the top dogs. they will just ban you.

2. flaming is not tolerated here - NEITHER of you should degenerate into ARGUING. he who yells loudest, is often the most ignorant.

an educated person who knows the truth can get it out in one post, if they sit there re-iterating the same thing over and over against all other evidence, they're not 'winning' they're being a fool.


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## Valdez (Aug 3, 2008)

Tatty_One said:


> Just for the record and the sake of accuracy  (as opposed to fanboi...ism).....the 9800GTX+ is also actually a die shrink from 65nm to 55nm firstly, secondly it runs considerably cooler than the 4850, thirdly is tends to overclock a little better, ohhhh and fourthly it beats the 4850 in most benches, certainly at the most popular resolutions .....however, IMO the 4850 is def the better bang for buck and unless someone already has an SLi board and will be looking to SLi in the future.....the 4850 is the only way to go!
> 
> http://www.legitreviews.com/article/731/1/



However it's louder and consuming more than 4850. Ohh, and it's obsolote.


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## TheGuruStud (Aug 3, 2008)

Valdez said:


> However it's louder and consuming more than 4850. Ohh, and it's obsolote.



O and E aren't close together on the keyboard.....

and how is it "obsolote"? You fail, again.


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## Valdez (Aug 3, 2008)

TheGuruStud said:


> O and E aren't close together on the keyboard.....
> 
> and how is it "obsolote"? You fail, again.



I don't fail, you fail, always.

No dx10.1, no tesselation.


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## TheGuruStud (Aug 3, 2008)

Valdez said:


> I don't fail, you fail, always.
> 
> No dx10.1, no tesselation.



dx 10.1 bwahahahaha and  at dx 10 in general

When there's something useful, let me know. Tessellation has two Ls and won't be important for a little while, I feel. Just like "OMGZ it haz dx10.1 that runs slower and looks the same as 9 OMGZ it's teh awesome". Get off M$'s cock.


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## Valdez (Aug 3, 2008)

TheGuruStud said:


> dx 10.1 bwahahahaha and  at dx 10 in general
> 
> When there's something useful, let me know. Tessellation has two Ls and won't be important for a little while, I feel. Just like "OMGZ it haz dx10.1 that runs slower and looks the same as 9 OMGZ it's teh awesome". Get off M$'s cock.




Dx11 requires tessellation, so i don't think it's an unimportant feature.
Buy your outdated nv hardware and troll elsewhere you fucking nvidiot.


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## Tatty_One (Aug 3, 2008)

Valdez said:


> However it's louder and consuming more than 4850. Ohh, and it's obsolote.



I agree totally which is why I said in my opinion the 4850 is the only way to go, I was meerly pointing out some facts that I felt were omitted from what seemed a slightly biased post, not biased because I thought it was fanboism but I beleive strongly that if we choose not to take any particular sides in a discussion then we should attempt to point out all the strengths as well as all the weaknesses.

TBH, personally I dont know whats with this 9800GTX+ cr*p, without the + the card 4 months ago was meerly a finer tune of an existing stop gap (albeit fairly decent) lineup, with the + 4 months on, apart from the die shrink and increased clocks it makes the green corner seem "patchy" in their marketing approach, thing is, in the UK, they are not much cheaper than the GTX260, if the + was around 40% cheaper it may have a niche but I agree with you......as it stands, IMO it is obselete.

Not sure what this godlike stuff is!........anyone in these forums is allowed to disagree and state their opinions.....thats encouraged and healthy, it's when it becomes a little too personal (such as the couple of posts above this one) it becomes un-healthy.......I dont think Rob was attacking anyone, certainly not origionally and we should encourage our newer members to have opinions and state them, whilst doing so in a "friendly" envoirnment and manner that is TPU!


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## TheGuruStud (Aug 3, 2008)

Valdez said:


> Dx11 requires tessellation, so i don't think it's an unimportant feature.
> Buy your outdated nv hardware and troll elsewhere you fucking nvidiot.



Get off your crashing ATI 9800 series card and you can buy my "outdated" card. Facts are facts. Dx 10 is a joke (I didn't say anything about 11, but opengl always wins anyway ) 
When dx11 comes out and games use it, do you think you or I are going to be using a current gen Nvidia or ATI card? You guys love to get


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## Valdez (Aug 3, 2008)

TheGuruStud said:


> Get off your crashing ATI 9800 series card and you can buy my "outdated" card. Facts are facts. Dx 10 is a joke (I didn't say anything about 11, but opengl always wins anyway )
> When dx11 comes out and games use it, do you think you or I are going to be using a current gen Nvidia or ATI card? You guys love to get




Dx10 is not a joke, developers don't utilize it's capabilities because of consoles and lot of crap  dx10 nv hardware on the market (the gtx200 series is much better in dx10 than g80/g92).
Thanks, i don't want a nvidia card again, i'm fine with my hd3870 and next time i will buy an ati card again.


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## tkpenalty (Aug 3, 2008)

threadlock plz? 

WAAAAYYYYY Too much BS from both Nvidiots and AMDTIdiots. Take the arguement elsewhere. Where the hell are the mods to keep things in check...?


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## robspierre6 (Aug 3, 2008)

*Great.*

Legitreview?
I don't get any of my review from them.simply because they post some strange numbers.
Does anybody here get his review from techreport-tomshardware-anandtech?
From different sites you get different review.
somebody tell me, where from to get reliable reviews.


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## dalekdukesboy (Aug 3, 2008)

*well now...*

ok, I admit to taking the blame for this thread degenerating into pure anger and I would have to think unacceptable swearing and dropping the f bomb even in some threads (that must be against the rules no?)  Plus it's just childish and is the absolute antithesis of civil discourse.  Sorry that may sound pompous in its' phrasing for a tech thread but it's the best way I can put it, BUT again I do apologize for admittedly shooting back from the hip at this robspierre dude but I just feel he took the first shot and was way out of line, I simply think people are seriously underestimating the whole g92 core and at the same time putting down the 280 as well as this argument dragged on! So to me that says they simply have a disdain for nvidia it's not even about the 9800gtx+ watercooled edition anymore...and that=ati fanboi'ism in my opinion...

if you think the gtx+ sucks fine say it but if it sucks so bad why do we need all these people putting all this effort and "facts" and plain anger in their posts to prove it...if the card is that bad or even just mediocre and the ati is superior, you could calmly state that in a few sentences and be done with it no? The card's performance would speak for itself...


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## robspierre6 (Aug 3, 2008)

dalekdukesboy said:


> ok, I admit to taking the blame for this thread degenerating into pure anger and I would have to think unacceptable swearing and dropping the f bomb even in some threads (that must be against the rules no?)  Plus it's just childish and is the absolute antithesis of civil discourse.  Sorry that may sound pompous in its' phrasing for a tech thread but it's the best way I can put it, BUT again I do apologize for admittedly shooting back from the hip at this robspierre dude but I just feel he took the first shot and was way out of line, I simply think people are seriously underestimating the whole g92 core and at the same time putting down the 280 as well as this argument dragged on! So to me that says they simply have a disdain for nvidia it's not even about the 9800gtx+ watercooled edition anymore...and that=ati fanboi'ism in my opinion...
> 
> if you think the gtx+ sucks fine say it but if it sucks so bad why do we need all these people putting all this effort and "facts" and plain anger in their posts to prove it...if the card is that bad or even just mediocre and the ati is superior, you could calmly state that in a few sentences and be done with it no? The card's performance would speak for itself...




I didn't say that the card is bad.The card is a great card for the price.I just mntioned the 4850 which at techreport/tomshardware/anandtech, beats the 9800gtx/gtx+ in every single game,even in nvidia's crysis and costs less money.
It was you who attacked me with your angry words.And calling someone a fanboi because he supports ATI is not a good way to discuss things.You are the fanboi here.
Have you even tried to check a different site?
calling people nuts and BS is what you did,didn't you?
Lets keep it unbiased and enjoy the discussion. 
i think that we need a reliable site to get our numbers and infos from.
Any suggestion is strongly appreciated.


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## TheGuruStud (Aug 3, 2008)

robspierre6 said:


> I didn't say that the card is bad.The card is a great card for the price.I just mntioned the 4850 which at techreport/tomshardware/anandtech, beats the 9800gtx/gtx+ in every single game,even in nvidia's crysis and costs less money.
> It was you who attacked me with your angry words.And calling someone a fanboi because he supports ATI is not a good way to discuss things.You are the fanboi here.
> Have you even tried to check a different site?
> calling people nuts and BS is what you did,didn't you?
> ...




wins in crysis? 

I want some of what you're smoking.


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## robspierre6 (Aug 3, 2008)

TheGuruStud said:


> wins in crysis?
> 
> I want some of what you're smoking.


It seems that we have some thick headed nvidiots in this forum.


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## robspierre6 (Aug 3, 2008)

TheGuruStud said:


> Get off your crashing ATI 9800 series card and you can buy my "outdated" card. Facts are facts. Dx 10 is a joke (I didn't say anything about 11, but opengl always wins anyway )
> When dx11 comes out and games use it, do you think you or I are going to be using a current gen Nvidia or ATI card? You guys love to get


DX10 was meant to be DX10.1.with a single path for aa processing ,overall increase in performance by improving the effeciency of the gpu "by using more of the available processing power" about 30% improve in performance with aa enabled over DX10 and tessellation.
so,you think DX10.1 is an unmportant feature huh?
Where do you get your infos from?


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## Tatty_One (Aug 3, 2008)

robspierre6 said:


> Legitreview? I would call it nvidiaview.
> Check at techreport/tomshardware then tell me what do you think.



It's easy to find some reviews that suit your/mine/anybody's argument.....so if you call Legit NVidiaview then I suppose you would call the ones you linked what?  Here is one from BJorn3d....kinda says the same as Legit........

http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1297&pageID=5020

As I said, reviews use different settings, different CPU's at different speeds and as importantly....different resolutions so you will always get some that say different, point is, the GTX+ does beat the 4850 in most things....not all, and not by all reviewers, it just depends what CPU and screen res you are running it at I suppose.


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## robspierre6 (Aug 3, 2008)

Tatty_One said:


> It's easy to find some reviews that suit your/mine/anybody's argument.....so if you call Legit NVidiaview then I suppose you would call the ones you linked what?  Here is one from BJorn3d....kinda says the same as Legit........
> 
> http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1297&pageID=5020
> 
> As I said, reviews use different settings, different CPU's at different speeds and as importantly....different resolutions so you will always get some that say different, point is, the GTX+ does beat the 4850 in most things....not all, and not by all reviewers, it just depends what CPU and screen res you are running it at I suppose.



Bjorn3d.com ?
why not tomshardware or techreport.where the 4850 is 5% slower than the 260gtx and the 4870 beats the 280gtx in 5 out of 7 games?
nvidia is a well know cheater.their propaganda is cheap and disgusting.they pay sites to destroy AMD's cards.I have the 4870 and it's twice as fast as my 8800gt.
i trust sites with reasonable numbers and well known reputation.


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## Tatty_One (Aug 3, 2008)

robspierre6 said:


> Bjorn3d.com ?
> why not tomshardware or techreport.where the 4850 is 5% slower than the 260gtx and the 4870 beats the 280gtx in 5 out of 7 games?
> nvidia is a well know cheater.their propaganda is cheap and disgusting.they pay sites to destroy AMD's cards.I have the 4870 and it's twice as fast as my 8800gt.
> i trust sites with reasonable numbers and well known reputation.



Yes I looked at Toms as well, my point is there are LOADS of sites that say the GTX+ is faster so which are right and which are wrong?  you choose to beleive some because they clearly tell you what you want to hear as you have made it pretty obvious that you dont like NVidia....thats your choice....I have no preference, all I am saying is that reviews dont always make FACT and plenty of reviews seem to say the opposite of what you choose to read.....probably because what you choose to read is all you want to hear......I just try to be a little more subjective is all........at the end of the day, I dont have both cards so I dont know which is faster at the resolutions I play.


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## robspierre6 (Aug 4, 2008)

Tatty_One said:


> Yes I looked at Toms as well, my point is there are LOADS of sites that say the GTX+ is faster so which are right and which are wrong?  you choose to beleive some because they clearly tell you what you want to hear as you have made it pretty obvious that you dont like NVidia....thats your choice....I have no preference, all I am saying is that reviews dont always make FACT and plenty of reviews seem to say the opposite of what you choose to read.....probably because what you choose to read is all you want to hear......I just try to be a little more subjective is all........at the end of the day, I dont have both cards so I dont know which is faster at the resolutions I play.



No,you're wrong.i dont believe what i want.I believe what i consider reasonable.
Im no nvidia hater.I have a 8800gt.I paid an extra 40$ to get the 8800gt over the 3870.
And guess what.. my brother's 3870 is actually as fast as ny 8800gt,even faster in some games.With much better quality.
There's a big F*ing propaganda going on out there.It's not marketing anymore,it's .....
What to call it??? 
It's not just tomshardware,you can check techreport or anandtech too.you'll get pretty close results.


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## DrPepper (Aug 4, 2008)

christ you sound like there is a big graphics card conspiracy going on, anyway 8800GT was cheaper than a 3870 most of the time and most people had nvidia chipsets at the time and bought two of them. Hence why nvidia gained a huge amount of profit, that and the 8800 ultra that was like £700.


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## erocker (Aug 4, 2008)

This thread stays on topic now, or infrctions will be dished out.  This thread has absolutely nothing to do with ati.


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## DrPepper (Aug 4, 2008)

I got carried away there :shadedshu Anyway  I hate when they release cards like this because it makes me want to get watercooling so I can get one


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## thoughtdisorder (Aug 4, 2008)

Yep, but like I stated before, IMO this setup is for people who like "sexy" in their machines but don't have a clue what they can really do or not do with the HW. Fatality comes to mind as well as a few others. Interesting news, makes me think some of us could certainly profit with our skills if we could find a niche.


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## DrPepper (Aug 4, 2008)

I would get 3 of those simply because they looked nice


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## Mussels (Aug 4, 2008)

DrPepper said:


> I would get 3 of those simply because they looked nice



i hope you got 3x120mm exhausts for the fans, lol.


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## DrPepper (Aug 4, 2008)

Mussels said:


> i hope you got 3x120mm exhausts for the fans, lol.



I haz alot o sellotape and 5 120 mm's 

Edit: I'm going to add them all on using tape only for a laugh  will be posting pictures today hopefully.


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## Tatty_One (Aug 4, 2008)

robspierre6 said:


> No,you're wrong.i dont believe what i want.I believe what i consider reasonable.
> Im no nvidia hater.I have a 8800gt.I paid an extra 40$ to get the 8800gt over the 3870.
> And guess what.. my brother's 3870 is actually as fast as ny 8800gt,even faster in some games.With much better quality.
> There's a big F*ing propaganda going on out there.It's not marketing anymore,it's .....
> ...



OK, lets say I am wrong, so you dont choose to "cherry pick" what reviews you beleive and what you dont?, would you like me to link you some more reviews that suggest contrary to your belief?

My only point here is that in early posts you accused some people of being NVidia fanbois (perhaps they were) but you are hardly being subjective which leads to some people thinking you are an ATi fanboi (whether you are or not is not my concern), IMO, all the good stuff you may have posted on the TOPIC of this thread is diluted as soon as anyone appears to be acting like a fanboi.....because all the other non fanboi members beleive that what is being said is not based on fact but single minded blindness........if you get my meaning.............so I am not saying your wrong, I am saying that by saying it in the way you have can lead people to beleive your wrong......

As for the off topic 3870/8800GT thing (sorry ERocker!)........I owned both an 8800GT and HD3870 for 2 months and bought each of them the week they were released.......I genuinly saw no IQ differences whatsover (but I am old so my eyesight may be going) and whilst there certainly were some games the 3870 was faster in, most games were dominated by the 8800GT........but IMO both damn good cards at release.


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## Bjorn_Of_Iceland (Aug 4, 2008)

Dont mess with the Zotac ^^


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## DarkMatter (Aug 4, 2008)

Well put Tatty. And don't worry you are right. 

Sorry Rob, but it just happens that Techreport, Anand and Tom's are the first sites where I look for reviews, primarily because they are a lot (many many times) faster than Wizz (sorry Wizz ). But I look at around 15 sites more too. I suppose that means those 3 are the ones I prefer. In no way their reviews reflect what you are saying. HD4850 IS faster than the GTX, but not by as much as you want to believe, the GTX+ trades blows but I suppose is a little bit slower overall. And what about Crysis? What were you smoking dude? I have to agree with Tattly here, you only see/hear what you want to see, because you are clearly biased my friend.

All in all, I too think that for the price the HD is the better buy right now, but that doesn't mean the G92 cards are crap, obsolete ar anything similar. Buying one GTX because it is cheaper than the HD won't hurt at all, for example. Choice, that is what we want.

On topic. I also think that watercooling this card is not the better thing ZOtac has made. First of all it won't make it run a lot faster (with that WC solution I mean), nor a lot quieter than with a good air cooler. 

Then, it's just a card that is going to be replaced by better ones very soon. IMO 55nm GT200 will be "dangerously" close in price, while being broadly faster. If not the GTX 260b itself, some kind of spiritual sucessor to the 256mb 8800 GT or the GS, with the added relevance that crippling the GT200 further below the GTX260 (448 bit, 896 MB) won't have the same (bad) effect as crippling the G92 GT. Maybe even a 9600 GT sucessor could be a real killer, even more so than the 9600 GT itself.
And finally, because it's a fixed and independent WC solution, it can be hard to fit in a case that already has WC.


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## Mussels (Aug 4, 2008)

buying two 8800GT's and vmodding them would end up really awesome in speed too... and passively with an S1.

There are always options, dictated by local price - you can argue all you want that one card is 5% faster or 10% faster, but if its 50% more expensive at your favourite e-tailer, you know you dont give a damn,


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## zithe (Aug 4, 2008)

TheGuruStud said:


> dx 10.1 bwahahahaha and  at dx 10 in general
> 
> When there's something useful, let me know. Tessellation has two Ls and won't be important for a little while, I feel. Just like "OMGZ it haz dx10.1 that runs slower and looks the same as 9 OMGZ it's teh awesome". Get off M$'s cock.



Grammar doesn't display intelligence. I'd suggest you learn that now and stop arguing with him. It gets rather annoying when all you do is mock his words when your grammar isn't much better. Profanity doesn't make you sound like you know what you're talking about either...

You have several "Thank you's". You got them from being KIND and HELPFUL, not arguing. If you believe someone to be a fool don't "lower yourself to their level". Get your point across as best as possible in one post. If they continue, ignore them.


This card sounds like a good idea. Hopefully it isn't a heck of a lot more expensive than the regular 9800gtx+. We can safely say it will be...


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## robspierre6 (Aug 5, 2008)

DarkMatter said:


> Well put Tatty. And don't worry you are right.
> 
> Sorry Rob, but it just happens that Techreport, Anand and Tom's are the first sites where I look for reviews, primarily because they are a lot (many many times) faster than Wizz (sorry Wizz ). But I look at around 15 sites more too. I suppose that means those 3 are the ones I prefer. In no way their reviews reflect what you are saying. HD4850 IS faster than the GTX, but not by as much as you want to believe, the GTX+ trades blows but I suppose is a little bit slower overall. And what about Crysis? What were you smoking dude? I have to agree with Tattly here, you only see/hear what you want to see, because you are clearly biased my friend.
> 
> ...




dear dark,i accept what i consider rasonable numbers.
I have the HD4870 and i know how it performs.Crysis?what about it.
It works pretty well on my card.
I simply don't believe any review.
techreport,tomshardware,anandtech,expreview....do have some reasonable numbers.
talking about the new g200 series,if there's gonna be any g200.cuz i believe producing cards like breeding rabbits is the only way to steel lights and hide the miserable situation nvidia's in.
Faulty chips in both mobile and desktop areas.their probem with nehalem license are two  major problems nvidia has to encounter now.
about those spec. you're talking about,it's not about how much bandwidth or on board ram you have.its about how much processing power  "number of constructions a gpu can achieve in a single clock"  you can put on a die.
Shrinking the die wont be that effective it will allow you to clock your shaders and logic core at higher frequencies.
But,how much higher?
Compare the 9800gtx+ to the 9800gtx,the 9800gtx+ is about 5% faster than the 9800gtx in the best cases.
What ATI did is a true achievement.ATI put 800 stream cores on a 234mm die with 
1200 Gigaflops/cycle of processing power vs 240 cores on 578mm, with 933 Gigaflops/cycle for nvidia's 280gtx.
This time ATI has much better architecture than nvidia.maybe,next round nvidia will come up with a better arch. 
believing that one comapany will always have the best is iilogical.


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## thoughtdisorder (Aug 5, 2008)

^Maybe I'm confused, but I thought this thread was about ZOTAC GeForce 9800 GTX+ ZONE Edition. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)


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## DrPepper (Aug 5, 2008)

Oh dear its off topic again  I would stop trolling people or erocker will be back. Does anyone think this would be a decent buy over a normal stock version ?


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## PrudentPrincess (Aug 5, 2008)

DrPepper said:


> Oh dear its off topic again  I would stop trolling people or erocker will be back. Does anyone think this would be a decent buy over a normal stock version ?



No. I'm saying this because its a dual slot card and while it may offer superior cooling to the stock air version, the 9800GTX+ runs cooler than the 9800gtx and you should be able to overclock well on air with a little fan tweaking. I'm sure that if you ever get a CPU water cooling setup you'll regret getting the standalone w/c system, because buying a block for your card would have performed better. (you can take the radiator off this card, but whats the point if its dual slot?)
Hope this helps.


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## DrPepper (Aug 5, 2008)

PrudentPrincess said:


> No. I'm saying this because its a dual slot card and while it may offer superior cooling to the stock air version, the 9800GTX+ runs cooler than the 9800gtx and you should be able to overclock well on air with a little fan tweaking. I'm sure that if you ever get a CPU water cooling setup you'll regret getting the standalone w/c system, because buying a block for your card would have performed better. (you can take the radiator off this card, but whats the point if its dual slot?)
> Hope this helps.



I see where your coming from  I wonder why its dual slot


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## PrudentPrincess (Aug 5, 2008)

DrPepper said:


> I see where your coming from  I wonder why its dual slot



Probably cheaper (as far as production) to leave the vent on. I doubt the block needs to be dual slot. If you took it off you would have to replace it with a single one, they're pinching pennies.


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## Wile E (Aug 5, 2008)

robspierre6 said:


> No,you're wrong.i dont believe what i want.I believe what i consider reasonable.
> Im no nvidia hater.I have a 8800gt.I paid an extra 40$ to get the 8800gt over the 3870.
> And guess what.. my brother's 3870 is actually as fast as ny 8800gt,even faster in some games.With much better quality.


No it isn't. The 8800GT is faster than the 3870 in most everything.



robspierre6 said:


> dear dark,i accept what i consider rasonable numbers.
> I have the HD4870 and i know how it performs.Crysis?what about it.
> It works pretty well on my card.
> I simply don't believe any review.
> ...


it doesn't matter how many stream processors a card has, or how big the die is, or how many gigaflops a card has. All that matters is how it performs, and nVidia's 280 outperforms the 4870 is most games.

Now, is that performance worth the price difference? No, not in my case. I'd still rather have the 4870, or even better, a couple 4870X2's. (But keep in mind, I'm on a Crossfire compatible platform. If I had an SLI platform, I'd be looking at 280's.)



Now, back on topic: This card doesn't really impress me. I'm not a fan of these self contained h2o solutions. I'd rather just build my own proper loop for it.


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## erocker (Aug 5, 2008)

On topic please.


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## dalekdukesboy (Aug 5, 2008)

erocker said:


> On topic please.



someone saw that coming...course at least they're talking about video cards and technically ati's 4850 is THE direct competitor at this price point to the 9800gtx+ so it is relevant...

Not quite like if I just blurted out "hey, what do you guys think of Paul Pierce's comment about him being the best basketball player on earth not Kobe to a Spanish reporter?" Now THAT is off topic, as well as wrong game too


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