# Sony PlayStation 4 Codenamed "Orbis", Runs AMD x86-64 CPU, Southern Islands GPU



## btarunr (Mar 29, 2012)

Sony may have codenamed PlayStation 4 "Orbis" (IPA: /ˈor.bis/), according to a Kotaku report. The next-generation game console is slated for "holiday season, 2013." This information was sourced by Kotaku, from a reliable source with a good track-record of accuracy. Orbis is derived from the Latin word for "circle", or "to circle/orbit". The term "Orbis Vita" or "Orbis Vitae" denotes "the circle of life." The specifications of Orbis known so far, include AMD-made x86-64 CPU, and an AMD-made GPU, built on the Southern Islands (Graphics CoreNext) architecture. In all probability, it could be a unified SoC, a highly scalar Fusion chip.





*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## v12dock (Mar 29, 2012)

AMD scored a sweet deal with next gen gaming consoles


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## pjladyfox (Mar 29, 2012)

This will be an interesting position for AMD to be in since, if I'm not mistaken, this means that they will have not only the next generation Playstation locked in but the next generation models of both Microsoft and Nintendo's consoles. Looks like NVIDIA is tossing their hat in on the mobile front and leaving the console gaming space behind 'tho I'd be curious if this was an active choice on their part or not?


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## dzero (Mar 29, 2012)

This only means good things for AMD.


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## Fourstaff (Mar 29, 2012)

But can it run Linux?


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## newtekie1 (Mar 29, 2012)

I would have thought they would have stuck with a derivative of the Cell processor.  But then again that would have made backwards compatibility too easy, and they don't want backwards compatibility.

Also all I could think of when I heard Orbis:









Fourstaff said:


> But can it run Linux?




Hardware wise, yes, but the current PS3 can run linux hardware wise.  I doubt Sony will include the software to allow it though.


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## Delta6326 (Mar 29, 2012)

Dang holiday season 2013, might as well hold off on a new computer till then. for better quality ports.


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## Fourstaff (Mar 29, 2012)

newtekie1 said:


> Hardware wise, yes, but the current PS3 can run linux hardware wise.  I doubt Sony will include the software to allow it though.



Of course, you can hack Linux to just about anywhere, goddevelopers willing.

Lets hope PS4 supports keyboard and mouse, and then we will have a "PC is the superior gaming platform hurr durrr" argument again


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## FordGT90Concept (Mar 29, 2012)

Holy backwards compatibility issues, batman!  Why does Sony kick themselves in the ass with every console they release?  Nintendo and Microsoft are sticking with IBM PowerPC processors in order to maximize backwards compatibility.


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## Ferrum Master (Mar 29, 2012)

are you sane people? This is good news! Who cares about the backwards compatibility... this means PC gaming won't get half baked ports now! Full compatibility as the compiler won't change.


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## alterecho (Mar 29, 2012)

Could this be somehow linked with GCN's focus on compute?


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## Rowsol (Mar 29, 2012)

Just because it's based on southern islands doens't mean it's going to be high end.  I bet they put a cheapo 70 dollar one in there.


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## OneCool (Mar 29, 2012)

> games at a resolution of up to 4096x2160





nice 

will need a new tv :shadedshu


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## newtekie1 (Mar 29, 2012)

Rowsol said:


> Just because it's based on southern islands doens't mean it's going to be high end.  I bet they put a cheapo 70 dollar one in there.



Not likely, they will probably do what they have done in the past, putting an equivalent to the top end in the console.  Of course by the time the console sees the light of day the GPU will already be a generation behind(or two at this rate).  So it will probably be a HD7970 or close to it.


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## FordGT90Concept (Mar 29, 2012)

Ferrum Master said:


> are you sane people? This is good news! Who cares about the backwards compatibility... this means PC gaming won't get half baked ports now! Full compatibility as the compiler won't change.


They'll still be half-baked because most games are ported from Xbox, not PlayStation, because of the reliance on DirectX.  Additionally, consoles always have limited resoures especially in terms of RAM and that severely limits environment size and the like.  Can't forget the lack of mouse and keyboard too.  Expect the same-old-same.




newtekie1 said:


> So it will probably be a HD7970 or close to it.


No no.  More like a 6850.  If it is a 7970, it would be severely underclocked to reduce the heat and power requirements.  I really can't see them using a trillion+ transistor chip in a console though--too expensive to mass produce.  They're more likely to use something smaller with a higher clockspeed.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Mar 29, 2012)

Rowsol said:


> Just because it's based on southern islands doens't mean it's going to be high end.  I bet they put a cheapo 70 dollar one in there.



4k by 2k res and the fact that when console originally release they usually are actually pretty damn good, I would put money down on you being wrong. Doesn't mean I will buy a PS4 at release, I just think you hunch is off by a long shot.


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## RejZoR (Mar 29, 2012)

I think this is only because the CELL was just too expensive. Now, they'll simply run pretty much everything in HW, even physics through GCN.


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## TRWOV (Mar 29, 2012)

A10? in my consoles?


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 29, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> They'll still be half-baked because most games are ported from Xbox, not PlayStation, because of the reliance on DirectX.  Additionally, consoles always have limited resoures especially in terms of RAM and that severely limits environment size and the like.  Can't forget the lack of mouse and keyboard too.  Except the same-old-same.
> 
> 
> 
> No no.  More like a 6850.  If it is a 7970, it would be severely underclocked to reduce the heat and power requirements.  I really can't see them using a trillion+ transistor chip in a console though--too expensive to mass produce.  They're more likely to use something smaller with a higher clockspeed.



7970 would be fine heat wise and power wise in a console. Just not cost effective. I'm guessing something 7850 or 7770.


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## SetsunaFZero (Mar 29, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Holy backwards compatibility issues, batman!  Why does Sony kick themselves in the ass with every console they release?  Nintendo and Microsoft are sticking with IBM PowerPC processors in order to maximize backwards compatibility.



its all bout profit, the ps vita is cheaper in production (BIG profit) then the current psp model. coz sony just used tech that is available on the market. They didn't need to develop new CPU nor GPU, again profit they saved dev. costs.

before someone ask if the ps4 will have a BD-drive, yes it will. 
Why u ask? coz SonyDADC would go bankrupt and i would lose my job. :|


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## dj-electric (Mar 29, 2012)

My guess is that this console will use the Cape Verde GPU. Performance-wise the HD7770 is about 3.5-4 times faster then PS3's GPU


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## nt300 (Mar 29, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Holy backwards compatibility issues, batman!  Why does Sony kick themselves in the ass with every console they release?  Nintendo and Microsoft are sticking with IBM PowerPC processors in order to maximize backwards compatibility.


Umm, not sure about Nintendo, but I heard Micro$oft is also going for low power, high performing GPU/CPU Fusion  This is how AMD can offer them best value package.


Dj-ElectriC said:


> My guess is that this console will use the Cape Verde GPU. Performance-wise the HD7770 is about 3.5-4 times faster then PS3's GPU


Not sure about the PS4, but that new GPU for the new XBox should be based on the HD 7870M graphics card. M being mobile based which I assume lower power consumption.


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## dir_d (Mar 29, 2012)

Id say 7870 or 7850.


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## OneCool (Mar 29, 2012)

Its not being released until late 2013 but early 2014 more than likely.Could be a APU.

The gpu within the APU could be anything really.

Could be sampling a APU with 4 core/6650 now and swap it for a 8 core/8670 later


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## nt300 (Mar 29, 2012)

dir_d said:


> Id say 7870 or 7850.


ya I was thinking the 7850 but you never know 


OneCool said:


> Its not being released until late 2013 but early 2014 more than likely.Could be a APU.
> 
> The gpu within the APU could be anything really.
> 
> Could be sampling a APU with 4 core/6650 now and swap it for a 8 core/8670 later


Make sense. It about a years away but I think MS is going to try and use a more powerful GPU this time because they got more efficient over the years.


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## hardcore_gamer (Mar 29, 2012)

Am I the only one dreaming of PS4 emulation on PC ?


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## vanyots (Mar 29, 2012)

hardcore_gamer said:


> Am I the only one dreaming of PS4 emulation on PC ?



With that hardware specs you would just run it on a virtual machine

but...
Why would you?


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## Zakin (Mar 29, 2012)

I forget, wasn't the new Xbox already listing up a 6600 series? If so this doesn't surprise me in the least.


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## Yo_Wattup (Mar 29, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> They'll still be half-baked because most games are ported from Xbox, not PlayStation, because of the reliance on DirectX.  Additionally, consoles always have limited resoures especially in terms of RAM and that severely limits environment size and the like.  Can't forget the lack of mouse and keyboard too.  Except the same-old-same.



Then why are most games single-threaded when the xbox has a six core cpu? (IIRC)


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## dieterd (Mar 29, 2012)

I dont know from where it is, but few of you mentioned 4096x2160 reso and that I think will make big leap foward (any existing monitor or TV in that res?) and at that reso even hd 7970 crossfire (or 680 sli if u want) will be to weak, but till that we must live almoust 2 years


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## Athlon2K15 (Mar 29, 2012)

so is PS4 going to have a driver update program in place?


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 29, 2012)

The more I think about it I think it will be a 7770 or something the like.


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## Inceptor (Mar 29, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> The more I think about it I think it will be a 7770 or something the like.



Probably something similar; an APU with 7770/6850 graphics performance.  OR with a heavily tweaked 7750 level gpu.  640-800 GCN shaders.
Everyone has to remember that it's a console, one gpu, one cpu, that's all that developers need to create for... a lot can be done with something like that, optimizations galore.


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## Dos101 (Mar 29, 2012)

In regards to the 4096x2160, I doubt it'll run games at that resolution. I'm sure Sony will throw that out there though for marketing purposes when it's competing against the next Xbox.



Yo_Wattup said:


> Then why are most games single-threaded when the xbox has a six core cpu? (IIRC)



I believe it's a tri-core CPU, with one core dedicated to running the OS (someone please correct me if I'm wrong)


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## v12dock (Mar 29, 2012)

Does this mean we could see GT6 on PC!


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## D4S4 (Mar 29, 2012)

OneCool said:


> Its not being released until late 2013 but early 2014 more than likely.Could be a APU.
> 
> The gpu within the APU could be anything really.
> 
> Could be sampling a APU with 4 core/6650 now and swap it for a 8 core/8670 later



so this thing will be outdated the moment it comes out (graphics wise)? great.


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## brandonwh64 (Mar 29, 2012)

Honestly I think it will be more APU setup due to the lower power consumption and heat.


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## Jurassic1024 (Mar 29, 2012)

LOL Consoles won't pull AMD out of the black.  What they need is their server division back... after they design a worthy chip that is.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Mar 29, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> The more I think about it I think it will be a 7770 or something the like.



It's still probably about 2 years from release, I could see a 7950 going in it.


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## Jurassic1024 (Mar 29, 2012)

pjladyfox said:


> This will be an interesting position for AMD to be in since, if I'm not mistaken, this means that they will have not only the next generation Playstation locked in but the next generation models of both Microsoft and Nintendo's consoles. Looks like NVIDIA is tossing their hat in on the mobile front and leaving the console gaming space behind 'tho I'd be curious if this was an active choice on their part or not?



If Fermi was as impressive as Kepler and more impressive in terms of yields, I think it would be a different story.  Remember, if PS4 is coming in 2013, they had to pick the GPU more than a year ago.


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## yogurt_21 (Mar 29, 2012)

Jurassic1024 said:


> LOL Consoles won't pull AMD out of the black.  What they need is their server division back... after they design a worthy chip that is.



umm Black is where companies want to be. Red is what they avoid.

so your comment doesn't make sense. Also based on PS3 sales, 62 million as of december. It would more than 10x their current server market over a similar time period. So again your comment doesn't make sense. That doesn't even factor in nintendo or microsoft.


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## Dent1 (Mar 29, 2012)

+1 yogurt_21



Jurassic1024 said:


> If Fermi was as impressive as Kepler and more impressive in terms of yields, I think it would be a different story.  Remember, if PS4 is coming in 2013, they had to pick the GPU more than a year ago.



Everyone thinks that you know about AMD's affairs better than their board of directors and sales & marketing division.


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## bostonbuddy (Mar 29, 2012)

if consuls are all amd based wonder if games will run better on amd based pc's.  assuming they still make pc games when this comes out.


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## happita (Mar 29, 2012)

Most likely an underclocked 7850 or a 7770 GPU on a Fusion architecture. Cost is the #1 factor here, then performance, then heat. 
What people don't realize is that consoles will ALWAYS have outdated hardware once they hit retail because of the amount of mass production needed to get those consoles on the shelves and have some stock left to replenish sold out stores.


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## AlienIsGOD (Mar 29, 2012)

vanyots said:


> but...
> Why would you?



because you could, thats why "D


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## happy (Mar 29, 2012)

Man, I heard the PS4 or "Orbis" is not going to allow PS4 owners to buy used games or play backward compatible Playstation games.  I guess now these used console games aren't going to be so cheap anymore. HAHAAHAHAHAHAHA


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## Jurassic1024 (Mar 29, 2012)

yogurt_21 said:


> umm Black is where companies want to be. Red is what they avoid.



I caught that right after i hit submit.  Honest mistake.



yogurt_21 said:


> Also based on PS3 sales, 62 million as of december. It would more than 10x their current server market over a similar time period. So again your comment doesn't make sense. That doesn't even factor in nintendo or microsoft.



More than 10x their current server market?  Have you seen Intel's server market share?  its above 85%, so 10x 15% is still nothing to brag about... at all.  Now who's the one not making any sense?


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## Jurassic1024 (Mar 29, 2012)

Dent1 said:


> +1 yogurt_21
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone thinks that you know about AMD's affairs better than their board of directors and sales & marketing division.



If you followed tape outs at all you wouldn't have said that.


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## Dent1 (Mar 29, 2012)

Jurassic1024 said:


> If you followed tape outs at all you wouldn't have said that.



Elaborate please.


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## Jurassic1024 (Mar 29, 2012)

bostonbuddy said:


> if consuls are all amd based wonder if games will run better on amd based pc's.  assuming they still make pc games when this comes out.



Wow, and I got picked on but this guy gets off scott free for saying consoles with AMD inside will be the end of PC gaming?  SMH and FML.


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## Jurassic1024 (Mar 29, 2012)

Dent1 said:


> Elaborate please.



Google.com


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## Jurassic1024 (Mar 29, 2012)

hardcore_gamer said:


> Am I the only one dreaming of PS4 emulation on PC ?



I hope so.


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## Dent1 (Mar 29, 2012)

Jurassic1024 said:


> Google.com



Well, if you are going to pretend your previous comment was smart you can atleast explain it.  If you can't explain it then you have no basis for discussion, thus you shouldnt be here.



happy said:


> Man, I heard the PS4 or "Orbis" is not going to allow PS4 owners to buy used games or play backward compatible Playstation games.  I guess now these used console games aren't going to be so cheap anymore. HAHAAHAHAHAHAHA



The market is swaying for digital download. 

The console market is moving the same direction as PC, they want everyone to download material. That way they can control copyright breaches. With more physical game stores going of business its the sensible move too and it cuts out middlemen or suppliers, thus generating more profit too.



Edit:



Jurassic1024 said:


> If i have to explain it, then we aren't even on the same level.  Go educate yourself and stop being lazy.



So if I Google "Tapes out" I'll have inside knowledge of AMD's inner workings and have more information at my fingertips than AMD's board of directors and sales & marketing division? Doesn't sound like an educated comment to me.


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## Jurassic1024 (Mar 29, 2012)

Dent1 said:


> Well, if you are going to pretend your previous comment was smart you can atleast explain it.  If you can't explain it then you have no basis for discussion, thus you shouldnt be here.



If i have to explain it, then we aren't even on the same level.  Go educate yourself and stop being lazy.


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## Jurassic1024 (Mar 29, 2012)

The market is swaying for digital download.

Yea because teh PSP GO was so successful going disc free right?
btw, digital only this early on console would be its end.  Everyone would need an internet connection with sufficient bandwidth, which we already know is not where it needs to be, especially in north america.
Throttling, another roadblock.  HDD space, another roadblock.  no physical media means bye bye gamestop, EB Games, etc.  aka a LOT of people out of work.

Stop talking please.  Everything you say is what the uneducated repeat online like its truth when it's not.


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## Jurassic1024 (Mar 29, 2012)

Dent1 said:


> Well, if you are going to pretend your previous comment was smart you can atleast explain it.  If you can't explain it then you have no basis for discussion, thus you shouldnt be here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





If you weren't so lazy and did some research, you would find out.


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## Dos101 (Mar 29, 2012)

Jurassic1024 said:


> Wow, and I got picked on but this guy gets off scott free for saying consoles with AMD inside will be the end of PC gaming?  SMH and FML.



Because he's being either an obvious troll or sarcastic, you're just being arrogant.



Jurassic1024 said:


> If i have to explain it, then we aren't even on the same level.  Go educate yourself and stop being lazy.



See my previous remark.


Anyways, back on topic.

It's not out of the realm of possibilities that there could be a 7970 based GPU in there, I'm sure Sony contacted AMD long ago to start work on a GPU for them.


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## Jurassic1024 (Mar 29, 2012)

The console market is moving the same direction as PC

*sigh*

I can buy the same mainstream games on Steam @ EB Games.  Try again.


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## Jurassic1024 (Mar 29, 2012)

Dos101 said:


> Because he's being either an obvious troll or sarcastic, you're just being arrogant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




AMD fanboy zone.  Good to know.  No intelligence and single minded.  Not how the world works.  Join us sometime.

PS, when did i say they wouldnt use a 7970 variant?  Why are you making stuff up?


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## Dos101 (Mar 29, 2012)

Jurassic1024 said:


> AMD fanboy zone.  Good to know.  No intelligence and single minded.  Not how the world works.  Join us sometime.



Please enlighten me as to how I'm a fanboy?


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 29, 2012)

I would slow down guys. Bad things can happen if we keep going this route.


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## Jurassic1024 (Mar 29, 2012)

Dos101 said:


> Please enlighten me as to how I'm a fanboy?



You think the topic is about the 7970 when no one said that is the GPU they would use.  It's what you HOPE they use.


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## Jurassic1024 (Mar 29, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I would slow down guys. Bad things can happen if we keep going this route.



Don't care, i'm not backing down from people too lazy to google and thinking AMD in some consoles makes up for a pathetic server division.


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## techguy31 (Mar 29, 2012)

Jurassic1024 said:


> AMD fanboy zone.  Good to know.  No intelligence and single minded.  Not how the world works.  Join us sometime.
> 
> PS, when did i say they wouldnt use a 7970 variant?  Why are you making stuff up?



Man, just stop arguing over the internet.  No point man. Be civilized.  There is no need to always explain your actions man. :shadedshu


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## Dos101 (Mar 29, 2012)

Jurassic1024 said:


> PS, when did i say they wouldnt use a 7970 variant? Why are you making stuff up?



I wasn't directing my comment at you, it was a general comment.

Jeez man take a chill pill. If you don't have a chill pill, take a chill strip. You know, put it on your tongue, it dissolves, chilled.


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## Dent1 (Mar 29, 2012)

Jurassic1024 said:


> The market is swaying for digital download
> 
> Yea because teh PSP GO was so successful going disc free right?.




I said the market is swaying towards digital download. I never said it was going to be successful.




Jurassic1024 said:


> btw, digital only this early on console would be its end.  Everyone would need an internet connection with sufficient bandwidth, which we already know is not where it needs to be, especially in north america.



Most western countries where console sales matter have an broadband connection. 

From a technological standpoint, bandwidth doesnt have to be a major bottleneck. They could implement many ways around it. i.e. user downloads just the files needed for the first few levels, the next few levels can be downloaded slowly as the user plays silently. 

Also like any product roll out, it won't be immediate, they will introduce it slowly, to give their consumers a chance to adapt to the change. I can tell you've never studied business.





Jurassic1024 said:


> Throttling, another roadblock.  HDD space, another roadblock.  no physical media means* bye bye gamestop*, EB Games, etc.  aka a LOT of people out of work.



Gamestop is moving to digital download. Shows you have no clue what you are saying!

And to shut you up. Evidence that we are moving towards digital download in gaming 

http://n4g.com/news/683252/gamestop-now-offers-digital-downloads-for-ps3-psp-and-xbox-360

Hard drive space is not a factor. Before the flooding in Thailand HD prices were at an all time low, prices are stabilising again. Average consumer HDD is like 500-1TB, so I don't see how HDD is a bottleneck.

Like I said a lot of physical stores are out of business in the UK "Game" and "Game Station" have gone bust. Sales in "HMV" are down too. Physical media including DVD sales and Music sales are on the decrease. Look at stats before you speak nonsense.

As for people getting laid off work, why would Sony or Microsoft care about unemployment figures. They are in the technology and gaming business not welfare and humanity business.



Jurassic1024 said:


> Stop talking please.  Everything you say is what the uneducated repeat online like its truth when it's not.


Says the person that didn't know Gamestop was moving to digital download too.


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## arnoo1 (Mar 29, 2012)

I can haz computer?
I don't like this, crappy old hardware, they really should go for high end hardware,
Now they will this be slower than pc's offcourse consoles are better coded and optimized but i want to see a something that can really compete against pc's
Sorry for crappy english xd


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## cdawall (Mar 29, 2012)

Wonder if I will be sync the new one with the PS3. I rather like using mine as a media server.


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## happita (Mar 29, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I would slow down guys. Bad things can happen if we keep going this route.



No, no, no, no....I think Jurassic should keep double posting, being arrogant, and very rude to others here. It gives a mod a reason to make something happen to which all of us frankly would like to see happen.

Anyway, on topic. I really don't see the price of a 7970 or 7950 going down too much in order for them to start manufacturing PS4's in time to get out by Christmas 2013, it's just not possible. The 7k series looks to repeat the history of the 5k series where the price didn't come down for at least a year after it debuted. The market yearns for GPU competition. Like others have indicated earlier in the thread, the GPU that will most likely be used will probably be something along the lines of a 7850/7770/7750. The CPU, that has yet to be decided. I don't have any input on that end.


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## erocker (Mar 29, 2012)

Jurassic1024 said:


> Don't care, i'm not backing down from people too lazy to google and thinking AMD in some consoles makes up for a pathetic server division.



Just keep your posts civil without throwing names at one another. Also use the edit button instead of double posting. Read the forum guidelines for any further information: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/announcement.php?f=14

Everyone stay on topic.

Thank you.


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## JATownes (Mar 29, 2012)

I don't really care about all the drama...all I will say is to please stop double/triple posting please.  It is against forum policy and there is an edit button for a reason.  Also, disregarding the advice of a well-loved mod (TheMailman), or any mod for that matter, is a good way to find yourself under the ban-hammer.  Let's keep it civil.

On topic:  This can only be good for AMD.  I think this could really boost R&D and maybe get AMD back to a competitive stance, which is good for all of us consumers.

EDIT: DAMNIT!!!  Double Ninja Posts got me!


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## mtosev (Mar 29, 2012)

ps4 running windows coming soon


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 29, 2012)

JATownes said:


> I don't really care about all the drama...all I will say is to please stop double/triple posting please.  It is against forum policy and there is an edit button for a reason.  Also, disregarding the advice of a well-loved mod (TheMailman), or any mod for that matter, is a good way to find yourself under the ban-hammer.  Let's keep it civil.
> 
> On topic:  This can only be good for AMD.  I think this could really boost R&D and maybe get AMD back to a competitive stance, which is good for all of us consumers.
> 
> EDIT: DAMNIT!!!  Double Ninja Posts got me!



lol I'm no mod. Just giving some friendly advice. Anyway my best guess is a 7770 or an equivalent. Hell maybe a 6770.


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## bat (Mar 29, 2012)

Kind of curious if eyefinity would be supported considering the resolution its said to support.


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## cdawall (Mar 30, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> lol I'm no mod. Just giving some friendly advice. Anyway my best guess is a 7770 or an equivalent. Hell maybe a 6770.



Doubt it. Last gen console was a NV "7800" series GPU. Why would sony of all companies cheap out? I am betting a full fledged chip with the core clock dropped to save power.


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## Fourstaff (Mar 30, 2012)

cdawall said:


> Doubt it. Last gen console was a NV "7800" series GPU. Why would sony of all companies cheap out? I am betting a full fledged chip with the core clock dropped to save power.



Vita is quite cheap as Sony products go. My money on Pitcairn silicon (7800 series), since that they should offer decent performance (comes within 10% of 7970) at a reasonable price point, on top of being simpler to mass produce. Also, their reworked API should boost even more processing power still. With Newegg selling 7850 at about $250, I think we will be seeing Orbis at about $400 starting price.


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## Rowsol (Mar 30, 2012)

1Kurgan1 said:


> 4k by 2k res and the fact that when console originally release they usually are actually pretty damn good, I would put money down on you being wrong. Doesn't mean I will buy a PS4 at release, I just think you hunch is off by a long shot.



I hope you're right.


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## [H]@RD5TUFF (Mar 30, 2012)

watch it cost $700


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## ompak5 (Mar 30, 2012)

i want to see an APU with integrated crossfire for PS4... i hope sony and AMD will do it, it will be the first console with dual GPU... hehehehe


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 30, 2012)

who cares. sony treats their customers like shit.


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## FordGT90Concept (Mar 30, 2012)

Yo_Wattup said:


> Then why are most games single-threaded when the xbox has a six core cpu? (IIRC)


"Most games" on what platform?  A lot of the PC games I play will use 4 cores but won't load the CPU to more than about 25% (they're GPU heavy).


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## Over_Lord (Mar 30, 2012)

Maybe it will have that HSA feature AMD has been talking about in their next gen(next year) APUs.


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## zootac (Mar 30, 2012)

easy rhino said:


> who cares. Sony treats their customers like shit.


+1


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## Rowsol (Mar 30, 2012)

Easy Rhino said:


> who cares. sony treats their customers like shit.



While this may be true I only care about the PC ports... lol.  So, I kinda care.


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## jigar2speed (Mar 30, 2012)

Jurassic1024 said:


> Don't care, i'm not backing down from people too lazy to google and thinking AMD in some consoles makes up for a pathetic server division.



I know you, you are the one who got banned from Fudzilla.com for trolling, keep up the good work.


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## zootac (Mar 30, 2012)

Rowsol said:


> While this may be true I only care about the PC ports... lol.  So, I kinda care.



SecuROM D.R.M sony made this evil for us p.c. gamers E.A games use it for p.c. games


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## NC37 (Mar 30, 2012)

Well either way this means one thing...the next console gen will be designed to get Sony/M$/Nintendo a return back on the hardware sooner. Xbox will have a midrange GPU, Wii U will have an older 4800 series based GPU, and the PS4 will now use AMD CPU + GPU which could possibly by a special APU design.

This is a huge change from the original reports of Sony looking to Intel for the PS4. Very glad that was changed. Intel still hasn't shown they can provide a competitive graphics option. 

Using AMD x86 will also work better for porting. Could maybe see PC games scale better and become easier to port.

This is of course good in some ways but bad in others. Longevity of the console will be cut. Devs will likely try to ride out visuals even longer like they did with this current gen. No matter what I hear or read about people that say there is still more power to be tapped from these current gen, I don't believe it. I've seen more titles with borderline fps than I have not. It keeps getting worse the more they push the hardware. Can the hardware do it, yes. Can it do it and be playable? Now you are in the grey area.


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## Valdez (Mar 30, 2012)

Dj-ElectriC said:


> Performance-wise the HD7770 is about 3.5-4 times faster then PS3's GPU



You must be kidding.

The hd7770 is much more faster than that.


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## Valdez (Mar 30, 2012)

NC37 said:


> Well either way this means one thing...the next console gen will be designed to get Sony/M$/Nintendo a return back on the hardware sooner. Xbox will have a midrange GPU, Wii U will have an older 4800 series based GPU, and the PS4 will now use AMD CPU + GPU which could possibly by a special APU design.
> 
> This is a huge change from the original reports of Sony looking to Intel for the PS4. Very glad that was changed. Intel still hasn't shown they can provide a competitive graphics option.
> 
> ...



I'm also sure it will be an APU, so i don't expect a bad ass gpu like the 7970. A cape verde based gpu is more likely and a 8 core cpu (4 module).


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## faramir (Mar 30, 2012)

TRWOV said:


> A10? in my consoles?



A10 (of Trinity) is not GCN.


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## Prima.Vera (Mar 30, 2012)

Rowsol said:


> Just because it's based on southern islands doens't mean it's going to be high end.  I bet they put a cheapo 70 dollar one in there.



I take that bet, and I raise you another 100.


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## Rowsol (Mar 30, 2012)

zootac said:


> SecuROM D.R.M sony made this evil for us p.c. gamers E.A games use it for p.c. games



That's a lot of abbreviations.


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## Completely Bonkers (Mar 30, 2012)

*"Orbis"* is very unoriginal.

360 is a full circle.

Orbis is a circle.

Yawn. How many years late copycat is that?


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## Fourstaff (Mar 30, 2012)

Completely Bonkers said:


> *"Orbis"* is very unoriginal.
> 
> 360 is a full circle.
> 
> ...



Xbox360 is reference to Sony's controllers. I fail to see your point.


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## MrMilli (Mar 30, 2012)

Dj-ElectriC said:


> My guess is that this console will use the Cape Verde GPU. Performance-wise the HD7770 is about 3.5-4 times faster then PS3's GPU



It would say, more like 5-6 times faster in modern games.

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/...t-grafikkarten-evolution/14/#abschnitt_dirt_3


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## btarunr (Mar 30, 2012)

Completely Bonkers said:


> *"Orbis"* is very unoriginal.
> 
> 360 is a full circle.
> 
> ...


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## Aquinus (Mar 30, 2012)

They're both gaming consoles that you use a controller to use and that you connect to a TV. Sounds like two different products that do the same thing. Saying that one copied the other is most likely partially true, but when I actually used to play 360 games, I decided on the 360 over the PS3 because I liked the games for the platform better. As an end user, I don't really care if M$ and Sony copy each other, they can duke it out as much as they want.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 30, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> They'll still be half-baked because most games are ported from Xbox, not PlayStation, because of the reliance on DirectX. Additionally, consoles always have limited resoures especially in terms of RAM and that severely limits environment size and the like. Can't forget the lack of mouse and keyboard too. Expect the same-old-same.



You are correct, however they port from the Xbox because it is the closest to the PC.  If the PS4 becomes the closest thing to the PC, then they will start porting from that.  The path of least resistance.  Still doesn't mean the ports will be good, for various reasons, some of which you covered...


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## MikeMurphy (Mar 31, 2012)

I'm willing to bet a dual thread CPU with around 500 GNC cores paired with either very high speed DDR3 or a rejigged memory controller using GDDR5.


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## MikeMurphy (Mar 31, 2012)

Oh, and this thing will get hacked soooo fast


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## Am* (Mar 31, 2012)

I really can't see them using an x86 CPU after the billions they spent on the Cell (and years of pushing it on developers). My bet is they're going to use a CPU based on the Cell/ARM architecture integrated with a AMD GPU on-chip as an APU-based design. 

Also I'm still yet to hear anything on even PS2 backward compatibility, if PS4 doesn't at least have this, I will probably be skipping it, especially if they go ahead with the crappy "no-used games" DRM this article is implying, which if does happen, will make hundreds of thousands of people lose their jobs that work in game stores and effectively kill competition on game pricing for their console. I will certainly be skipping this console if this does happen, as I don't buy a single game at full price.


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## Vulpesveritas (Mar 31, 2012)

Am* said:


> I really can't see them using an x86 CPU after the billions they spent on the Cell (and years of pushing it on developers). My bet is they're going to use a CPU based on the Cell/ARM architecture integrated with a AMD GPU and an APU-based design.
> 
> Also I'm still yet to hear anything on even PS2 backward compatibility, if PS4 doesn't at least have this, I will probably be skipping it, especially if they go ahead with the crappy "no-used games" DRM this article is implying, which if does happen, will make hundreds of thousands of people lose their jobs that work in game stores and effectively kill competition on game pricing. I will certainly be skipping this console if this does happen, as I don't buy a single game at full price.



I see no reason for it not to be x86, it wouldn't require any extra r&d, and i believe it would be more familiar to code for.  Plus, they could toss a cell processor into the chipset for backwards compatibility. 

And i doubt ps2 backwards compatibility, they dumped it in the latter verions of the ps3 after all.   DRM i doubt as that would kill a lot of jobs, sales, and marketing.


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## Dos101 (Mar 31, 2012)

Am* said:


> Also I'm still yet to hear anything on even PS2 backward compatibility, if PS4 doesn't at least have this, I will probably be skipping it, especially if they go ahead with the crappy "no-used games" DRM this article is implying, which if does happen, will make hundreds of thousands of people lose their jobs that work in game stores and effectively kill competition on game pricing for their console. I will certainly be skipping this console if this does happen, as I don't buy a single game at full price.



It cost Sony and arm and a leg to put it in the first few sku's of the PS3 so I doubt we'll see it in the PS4 (unless they find a VERY cheap way to emulate it). 

And I really don't see Sony, or Microsoft for that matter, implementing an anti used-game DRM scheme. The outcry would be enormous, and just as you said, the economic outcome speaks for itself. If one of the 2 companies implemented it though, the other company would tout their console's ability to play used games as a "feature".  That would make things very interesting.....


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## Vulpesveritas (Mar 31, 2012)

Dos101 said:


> It cost Sony and arm and a leg to put it in the first few sku's of the PS3 so I doubt we'll see it in the PS4 (unless they find a VERY cheap way to emulate it).
> 
> And I really don't see Sony, or Microsoft for that matter, implementing an anti used-game DRM scheme. The outcry would be enormous, and just as you said, the economic outcome speaks for itself. If one of the 2 companies implemented it though, the other company would tout their console's ability to play used games as a "feature".  That would make things very interesting.....


It would be funny for them to just put PCSX2 on there with a copy of a PS2 BIOS on board, with a menu icon saying "PS2"
Seeing as it is going to have an x86-64 CPU with a DX9 capable GPU.  
I mean, they could always take advantage of an open source product, right?

I can hope at least


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## Dos101 (Mar 31, 2012)

Vulpesveritas said:


> It would be funny for them to just put PCSX2 on there with a copy of a PS2 BIOS on board, with a menu icon saying "PS2"
> Seeing as it is going to have an x86-64 CPU with a DX9 capable GPU.
> I mean, they could always take advantage of an open source product, right?
> 
> I can hope at least



Haha that would make my day!


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## Inceptor (Mar 31, 2012)

Am* said:


> I really can't see them using an x86 CPU after the billions they spent on the Cell (and years of pushing it on developers). My bet is they're going to use a CPU based on the Cell/ARM architecture integrated with a AMD GPU on-chip as an APU-based design.
> 
> Also I'm still yet to hear anything on even PS2 backward compatibility, if PS4 doesn't at least have this, I will probably be skipping it, especially if they go ahead with the crappy "no-used games" DRM this article is implying, which if does happen, will make hundreds of thousands of people lose their jobs that work in game stores and effectively kill competition on game pricing for their console. I will certainly be skipping this console if this does happen, as I don't buy a single game at full price.



1) There's no economic reason for Sony to have backward compatibility built into the PS4.  They want to sell new consoles, and they want to sell new games.
2) There are not "hundreds of thousands" of people employed in game stores; a few thousand across the globe would be extremely generous, making close to minimum wage, who can easily go and get another job for the same wage.
3) If you don't buy console games at full price, they don't care about you; it means you don't have enough money to buy-in to their systems in the way they want.


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## Vulpesveritas (Mar 31, 2012)

Inceptor said:


> 1) There's no economic reason for Sony to have backward compatibility built into the PS4.  They want to sell new consoles, and they want to sell new games.
> 2) There are not "hundreds of thousands" of people employed in game stores; a few thousand across the globe would be extremely generous, making close to minimum wage, who can easily go and get another job for the same wage.
> 3) If you don't buy console games at full price, they don't care about you; it means you don't have enough money to buy-in to their systems in the way they want.



1. true.  Though a lot of people wold like it if they had backwards compatibility as it is a convenience and therefore would sell better.
2.  there are 6627 gamestops, which much of their business is used games.  Most gamestop stores hold 5-15 employees.  That's gamestop alone.  You'd see them lose a lot of business over time.  I would say tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of jobs is realistic.  And with the global economy the way it is now, it isn't easy to go get another job at any wagepoint - I've been trying to get a second part-time job for months now for example.  
3.  True for the most part, but over time the lower cost games get people to stick to a console for a longer period of time and buy more titles in the long run at full price.


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## Inceptor (Mar 31, 2012)

Vulpesveritas said:


> 2. there are 6627 gamestops, which much of their business is used games. Most gamestop stores hold 5-15 employees. That's gamestop alone. You'd see them lose a lot of business over time. I would say tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of jobs is realistic. And with the global economy the way it is now, it isn't easy to go get another job at any wagepoint - I've been trying to get a second part-time job for months now for example.



I did not know that.  But I think that that would be the vast majority of the employees right there.
And I don't think it would mean all of them losing their jobs, but quite a few would.

Here's a link to an SEC archive filing made by Gamestop from 2009:

Link

And an excerpt:


> Employees
> 
> We have approximately 17,000 full-time salaried and hourly employees and between 28,000 and 42,000 part-time hourly employees worldwide, depending on the time of year. Fluctuation in the number of part-time hourly employees is due to the seasonality of our business



So, 17000 full time, most will be hourly, it's retail, and a minimum of 28000 part time.  Most of the part time would be axed, some of the full time might as well.  But not all would lose their jobs.
Nearly all of those part time jobs are held by teenagers and students in their twenties, I can see a lot of people not caring.  Sorry.


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## Vulpesveritas (Mar 31, 2012)

Inceptor said:


> I did not know that.  But I think that that would be the vast majority of the employees right there.
> And I don't think it would mean all of them losing their jobs, but quite a few would.
> 
> Here's a link to an SEC archive filing made by Gamestop from 2009:
> ...



Some of us in our late teens / early twenties probably will care.  But yes, most likely the part time employees will be the first to be cut.


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## Am* (Apr 1, 2012)

Inceptor said:


> 1) There's no economic reason for Sony to have backward compatibility built into the PS4.  They want to sell new consoles, and they want to sell new games.
> 2) There are not "hundreds of thousands" of people employed in game stores; a few thousand across the globe would be extremely generous, making close to minimum wage, who can easily go and get another job for the same wage.
> 3) If you don't buy console games at full price, they don't care about you; it means you don't have enough money to buy-in to their systems in the way they want.



1. You're completely wrong. There is a pretty big reason to have backwards compatibility, as it prolongs the life of the previous gen console with an already established audience and a proven record while getting more people who never owned one, to buy the new one to have access (and buy software) to both. That in turn means they can make money from developers on board with their old AND new consoles instead of directly killing off their own income stream and 60+ million potential customers. 
2. You obviously don't have a clue. There are between 10,000-20,000 employed in the UK alone, and around 60,000 at least in the US. Take into consideration the rest of the world and independent game stores and you easily have 100,000 employees, and if it was that easy to get better jobs for them, they'd have switched already.
3. Another clueless statement. Right now, the vast majority of their revenue comes from selling to distributors and retailers, so they only see a fraction of their game's retail value (10%-25% at best) because the rest goes to covering retailer's operating costs. If they're planning on making online distribution their main source of selling games, they can cut the price of their games by even 50%-75% and still see better returns than selling to retailers since it factors out shipping, manufacturing and the retailer's markup. Selling at a lower price would get far more people to buy the product -- simple as that. Take a look at Steam and how much games they sell at full price or at a discounted price during sales, it's pretty self-explanatory.


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## Frick (Apr 1, 2012)

Inceptor said:


> who can easily go and get another job for the same wage.



Yeaaahhh, that's what it's like with jobs these days. So much to chose from!


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## Thefumigator (Apr 7, 2012)

Am* said:


> I really can't see them using an x86 CPU after the billions they spent on the Cell (and years of pushing it on developers).



I don't think so, If something didn't work as well as they wanted to, they have to move on. Like Apple + Power PC. 

I believe an APU is a great choice for a PS3 but maybe not the greatest. Who knows. What I belive is that you don't see Sony failing very often. Ps1, ps2 were successful, Ps3 well, it was far behind at first, but in the long run it proved to be succesful too. 



Inceptor said:


> 1) There's no economic reason for Sony to have backward compatibility built into the PS4.  They want to sell new consoles, and they want to sell new games.



I agree it adds cost. While we have no evidence of "huge" backward compatibility in consoles, it is a good point for the user to have "some" backward compatibility. Xbox 360 was limited in this aspect but runs several Xbox games, nintendo wii is backward compatible with the gamecube. PS2 is backward compatible with PS1 and The first 2 nintendo DS (DS and DS lite) are compatible with the gameboy advance but not classic gameboy, while the gameboy advance was.

I see backward compatibility an important point in PC software only, PC would be dead if you couldn't run the same software from version to version. While sometimes may not be an smooth transition.





Frick said:


> Yeaaahhh, that's what it's like with jobs these days. So much to chose from!



 Ffff don't even remind me.... I'm having a hard time getting a job myself... why, polititians who rule the world, why. Why?? F!!! :shadedshu


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