# Watercooling Gone Wild: Overly Expensive Noob Edition



## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 9, 2018)

I would like to take a moment and thank EKWB with all the help they have provided in regards to getting this build off the ground by providing fittings, coolant and so much more. 

Before I forget a big thank you to my local machinist Tony for his work on custom brackets and any fabrication I needed done. 

Also a big shout out to @VSG  for answering a metric shit ton of question considering how long I have been out of the loop when it comes to building a custom water.

Now with that out of the way, It has been nearly a decade since I last messed with water cooling. The last time was back when the Phenom II series were still viable options. Suffice to say, its been a long time and now everyone i doing hard tubing and I just don't have the time for that. So the premise of this build was to get a hard tubing look, without the maintenance issues. Keep in mind this is not a full system loop but instead is an over glorified ridiculously expensive CPU loop. Why? Because I can; Do I need more justification than that? Nope I don't think so. Without further delay lets take this adventure together and see where it leads.

The system specifications for this build:
CASE: Thermaltake Core P3 tempered glass
PSU: Zalman 1000w 80 - Plus Gold
CPU: Intel i7 8700k
MOBO: MSI Z370 Gaming Pro Carbon AC
RAM: Crucial Ballistix 3466 MHz 32GB
GPU: MSI GTX 1080 Ti Gaming
SSD: 250 GB 960 EVO M.2
SSD: 512 GB Plextor
SSD: 1 TB Sandisk Extreme
HDD: 3 TB Toshiba x2

Design Mockup:


Vomit on your screen? Not my problem. Is the planning short sighted and full of holes? You bet. Cheers for just winging it  (note to all the boys and girls out there taking a bunch of expensive parts and hoping it all fits together probably not the best idea.

Parts:
Fittings: Various EKWB ACF fittings in Nickel finish
Radiator: Black Ice Nemesis 360 mm Radiator
Pump/Res: Swiftech Maelstrom D5 x100
Fans: Be Quiet! Silent Wings 3 1450 RPM PWM
CPU Block: Swiftech Apogee XL2



Spoiler: Parts


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 9, 2018)

The fun that is mocking up the layout only to realize nothing fits as intended.

At first the Maelstrom D5 x100 with its default bracket could not be mounted to the radiator. This is due to the fact the holes would not line up. So a quick trip to see Tony my local machinist and I had some custom aluminum brackets made. $15 well spent.


Spoiler: Bracket Fun







However after getting everything mocked up a new problem arose the side panel would not fit due to the limited orientation of the Maelstrom D5. It can only be set up one way as configured. Meaning the fittings would not clear the Tempered glass side panel. Swiftech did not in my opinion take enough time when designing their brackets. The three cut outs could have been done in a way to allow for more mounting options instead they do not lineup making that impossible. Another trip to see Tony and the brackets are now actually usable.


Spoiler: More Trouble


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 11, 2018)

This kids is why you don't use dyes no matter what.

After just 3 months with a red dye the block was filty and completely clogged up. The tubing is heavily stained and generally even after cleaning the block its still gunked up. Finishes on blocks do not like acids so using vinegar to break up the dye and clean the block is out of the question unless you want to risk damage to the finish. Overall moral of the story just say no to included water cooling dye kits. It was far worse than the images show thats after 3 hours of scrubbing with a tooth brush even still a large amount of gunk is stuck between the fins.



Spoiler: So much for reusing this







Even if I reused this block I ran into a different issue the G1/4" threads are not actually G1/4" The EK ACF fittings are not compatible they will cross thread and or destroy the threads. So I have had to order a new block. Sometimes life just likes to kick you when your down. Still the rough layout looks good next is to figure out a way to secure the tubing so it remains straight and true. Likely going to use a 5/8 wire clamp attached to the radiator and painted black. Time will tell.


Spoiler: Rough layout


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## dorsetknob (Jul 11, 2018)

Have you considered using Denture Cleaning Tablets to Clean and flush the Loop


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 12, 2018)

dorsetknob said:


> Have you considered using Denture Cleaning Tablets to Clean and flush the Loop


The block etc came from an AIO swiftech Prestige that i was stealing parts from however it turns out the Swiftech Apogee XL2 has improper threads. While they are listed as G1/4" they will not accept any other fittings than swiftech's meaning my EK ACF fittings would not work without destroying or rethreading the block. As such I just ordered a new replacement block and will clean this one later and rebuild the 240mm Prestige kit it came from.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 13, 2018)

Did some more tinkering with the layout and picked up some black wire C clamps to hold the tubing in place along the radiator. Once the CPU block is in it should be quite easy to get the tubing straight.

Overall its finally coming together but need to wait for the new Swiftech SKF cpu block to arrive to do the final mockup.


Spoiler: Almost final layout


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 14, 2018)

final layout done, needs to be tweaked and cleaned up a bit but generally this should be just about right.

Now if anyone has any ideas on how to sleeve and or hide the QDC fittings to some extent I am all ears. I have looked around but haven't found sleeving in the right size.


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## John Naylor (Jul 14, 2018)

First think I do is buy the case after being pretty sure that all items will fit.  Them I make mockups... for example, using a weak old card, I rubberband a piece of cardboard to the PCB and check to see hiw GFX card(s) fit.  Having good measuring tools is a must.  Then I make this:

https://www.overclock.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=17784&d=1383265832

If you want to see more picks of the subsystem assembled (under rad drain w? QD , fill ports, etc ... will find here in this thread.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/161...ase-phanteks-case-club-lovers-owners-100.html

To obtain formula on how to size that radiators ..

https://www.overclock.net/forum/61-water-cooling/1457426-radiator-size-estimator.html

See a ton or misleading info on water cooling here as well as many other forums.  When you have multiple water blocks, you can use th aboive perty reliably ... the 60% factor is based upon the fact that block sizes matter ... a GPU water block is much more efficient and removing heat than a CPU block is simply because of heat load per area.   For just a CPU load,  it's going to be a bit higher.  but sill, the biggest error most people make if that your MoBo, Radiator shroud, tubing and every wet component is also radiating heat ... so the fans and the radiator fins are not handling a significant portion of the load.

So for a 360 rad... you are looking at 175 - 180 watts @ 1,000 rpm / 215 - 225 watts for 1250 rpm and 235 - 250 watts for 1400 rpm with a delta T of 10C

Your load however will top out at 125 - 135 watts with an overclocked CPU.  Let's say we assume 80% of that gets taken care of by the fins .. heck let's ignore all that and use 100%.  At 135 watt load and 1400 rpm, your delta T will be 5.4 C ... well below the 10C threshold for a hi-end water cooling system.  S the choice of 1500 rpm fans is one I'd suggest taking a look at as best speed control technology can provide will bottom out  around 375 - 450 rpm and even at 1000 rpm, you have way more sped than you could ever need.  I expect fan speeds, if temp controlled will top out at about 650 understress testing

The most common misinformation put forth is that water cooling is just as load as air cooling... and that is simply wrong either way you go from there.    If we talking CLCs ... I have yet to see a CLC that can match a quality air cooler's thermal performance (say anything from the Scythe Mugen Max @ $37) or the Noctua DH-15 @ $90) without being louder.  The D15 beats the H100i thermally but is almost 12 times louder to get that close due to its extreme speed fans.  When you go custom ... sure if you undersize your radiators ... say CPU and 250 watt GFX card / Mobo block on a 120 or 240 rad, yes you are going to hear it.  But if you size the rads for 10C with max load under stress test at 1250 rpm ... you will never break 850 rpm while gaming.

The systems here are all using 1250 rm fans and they never break 800 or so rpm under stress testing ... the bottom out at about 300 - 325 rpm.  They are dead silent and you cant tell the system is on with your ears.  Right now just using the web and witha game running (toon is just standing there), pump is at half speed, rad fans are at 544 and case fans at 450 rpm.... Im using 4 speec control curves 1)  Pump 2) 420mm rad 3) 280mm rad and 4) case fans ... if curve calls for less than 350, the fans shut off.

Looking towards the future, were you to add a water block for a 250 watt GFX card and  MoBo Block overlcocked... you calculated wattage would be 415 resulting in a  radiator fin load of about 250 watts,  You'd get that at 1250 rpm with a 10C delta T .  In short, I'd consider dropping the fan speeds to give you more low speed control; the SW3's bottom out at just above 500 rpm.... something in the 850 - 1250 rpm range would be more than enough for just CPU cooling


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 15, 2018)

Not exactly a noob here i know the basics mostly the noob part is doing something unnecessary and stupid for no other reason than I can.

That said, I had a rough idea of exactly what I needed as for heat dissipation no GPU block will be added in the future. Watercooling a GPU when you swap cards every generation just doesn't make sense. Nice to look at but otherwise meaningless. Hell even the 360 mm radiator was picked due to its size more than anything else as it covers up the 2.5" SSDs.

The chassis was chosen due to its versatility I use the same chassis as a test bench and for my main system due to extra parts and swap ability including motherboards etc and an OS drive can just be swapped back and forth in regards to trouble shooting. a

Fans were selected based on overall CFM through radiator performance in which case the SW 3 offers one of the best CFM to dBA ratios available.

Otherwise this is a foolhardy fun project to see what can be done with regular tubing to get a hard tubing like design from the good ol cheap and easy floppy stuff. I digress I appreciate the tenacity of self promotions but keep in mind I review this hardware and with that comes a minor understanding of heat dissipation characteristics.

That said the average guy stumbling into this thread will likely appreciate the possible pitfalls and issues that arise that they may also be facing. Most people dive right in. I essentially did the same to see "what would happen if" Cheap and easy solutions what kind of fittings would be needed to make it doable, just how expensive is it to get a hard tubing like setup without the hard tubing etc etc etc. Answering questions no one wants to know or cares to know the answer too because I have literally nothing better to do on a saturday night.


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## HammerON (Jul 15, 2018)

Sub'd to see final results


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 20, 2018)

Decisions Decisions, Do I sleeve it or leave it be? Black? or Black and Red? Picked up a few sizes for cheap 5/8 3/4 in red / black and 1 inch in black. Obviously if i sleeve it I will pick up 5/8 for a snug fit and cleaner look.


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## HammerON (Jul 20, 2018)

Sleeve it red and black!


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## Caring1 (Jul 20, 2018)

Instead of those horrendous plastic disconnect couplings, is it possible to use G1/4 quick connect pneumatic fittings?
To me they would look better and can be screwed directly in the pump or radiator as required.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 20, 2018)

EK Quick Disconnect fittings are what I have on hand they also don't seem to spill any fluid at all. I have contemplated painting them black but its a soft touch rubber like material so not sure what would work best. Sleeving is simple and easily hides the QDC fittings entirely. That said going with Koolance fittings is possible but thats another $60+.


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## dorsetknob (Jul 20, 2018)

I used Monsoon compression fitting
They came with the s/H rad /block ( 2 boxes of 6  Brand new >>> i box used and now 1 box 6 spare  )


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 20, 2018)

Yeah EK was nice enough to provide me with the fittings. I liked the finish and they had the largest assortment of extra fittings and extenders making this process a lot easier. But yeah the QDC fittings are a bit meh where they are plastic.


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## sneekypeet (Jul 21, 2018)

Get ahold of swiftech.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 31, 2018)

Alright so i have been experimenting with the sleeving and it just doesn't work as well as I would like. In a simpler build it would be fantastic however currently due to the complexity and number of fittings in this build it just doesn't work. So to make things easier I will likely sleeve the old Swiftech H220x2 Prestige to get some use out of the sleeving and call it a day.


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## HammerON (Jul 31, 2018)

Sounds like a good plan!  I have actually never attempted to sleeve before.


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## T-Bob (Jul 31, 2018)

I really like the way that sleeving looks on the Swiftech 



crazyeyesreaper said:


> Not sure what I am going to do with this unit? Maybe do a give away of sorts.


Sounds like a great idea.


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## Fangio1951 (Jul 31, 2018)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> final layout done, needs to be tweaked and cleaned up a bit but generally this should be just about right.
> 
> Now if anyone has any ideas on how to sleeve and or hide the QDC fittings to some extent I am all ears. I have looked around but haven't found sleeving in the right size.
> View attachment 103905


hi m8,

This was my recent effort = I changed the orientation of the main case by rotating it 180 deg so the cpu tubing was at the bottom.







regards


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## crazyeyesreaper (Aug 1, 2018)

Finally got around to painting the brackets,

Headed down to the local NAPA auto parts picked up some self etching primer and some flat black. Went ahead and painted the swiftech brackets and the ones I had custom made so they match. Flat black finish also blends in better with the Radiators finish tying everything together a bit better.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Aug 21, 2018)

Loop is stress testing and leak testing now.

So far i got it optimized to stay below 45 dBA (currently at 43 dBA) and with only two be quiet fans I am seeing 88 C under AIDA64 FPU load at 4.8 GHz 1.3 Volts on the 8700k. Putting that into perspective the EK Phoenix MLC 360 offers 85C at 51 dBA. So not bad I expect a 1C drop from the third fan while remaining around 43 dBA. With side panel on should come in around 41 dBA giving me enough room to up the fan RPM and likely get down to around 86 C worst case load temps. Will know for sure soon enough.


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## N-Gen (Aug 21, 2018)

Is there any particular reason you used EK-QDC instead of just running longer pipes? I don't seem to see it mentioned along the thread but I might have missed it.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Aug 22, 2018)

Ease of disassembly / coolant change / Maintenance 

I can essentially push two buttons isolating the CPU block and the radiator / res / pump. No coolant spilling no need to drain it just to take it off or swap a part.


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## John Naylor (Aug 22, 2018)

I made CAD files of the case and dimensions and even then i had some issues that woulda grabbed my ass had I knot done mockups.  The clearance of the GFX cards w/ water blocks to the Reservoir was about a playing card in thickness.  With intake fans under the bottom rad, it allowed me to install an elbow on the underside of the radiator's reservoir. ... then an extension and finally a male QD fitting that was about 2 mm from the removable side panel.   Pop of the side panel, connect the mating QD female fitting w/ valve and 3 feet of tubing and I'm ready to drain.  Of course that's not gonna happen without a way to let in so the top rad was a mirror image.  The loop was connected to the two ports on the underside.  With another 40mm extension, when I popped off the top intake grille, I had two plugs right underneath.  Id connect a fitting w/ 12"or rigid acrylic, valve  and funnel for filling or bleeding.  Served as a) an air inlet when draining b) an attention free bleed tube (fill the tube with coolant 1/4" short of the valve, close, turn on the pump (only, system was off) and go to bed.  In morning, would see the tube that had been filled with coolant at bed time, now only about 1/4 full where air had bubbled out replacing the coolant in the stack tube and c) as a fill tube

Anyway, here's the drain port assembled


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## MrGenius (Aug 22, 2018)




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## N-Gen (Aug 22, 2018)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> Ease of disassembly / coolant change / Maintenance
> 
> I can essentially push two buttons isolating the CPU block and the radiator / res / pump. No coolant spilling no need to drain it just to take it off or swap a part.



I guess it makes sense if function is preferred over form. I just popped a drain at the bottom of my res with a ball valve but then again, there's a hell of a lot of space in a 900D.

I did go with ZMT tubing myself this time around, how are you liking it? It feels and looks like it will outlive me.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Aug 23, 2018)

I like the ZMT tubing my only gripe is it seems to hold on to dust. Thats only downside for me really. I like the fact its a bit stiff and sturdy made this build easier because of it. I also do not like the yellowing and aging most clear tubing goes through. While that has gotten better over the years its still not perfect So having black tubing just kinda solves the problem.

The issue with my res is the pump is built in at the bottom. Do to space constraints I was not able to fit a drain. That said due to using dual disconnects I can just use a third to force the line open and drain both sides.


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## N-Gen (Aug 23, 2018)

Ah I missed the pump down there, how silly of me. I agree about ZMT being a bit stiff, made me less concerned about any possible kinks.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Aug 26, 2018)

Leak testing passed loop is installed and working. Still need to redo the wiring and clean things up more. However here it is chugging away. Eventually in the near future i will upgrade it to Koolance QDC fittings at which point the wiring for the entire system will get taken care of in the process. Since this is my daily driver having it down for extended periods just isn't in the cards right now.


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## Fangio1951 (Aug 26, 2018)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> Leak testing passed loop is installed and working. Still need to redo the wiring and clean things up more. However here it is chugging away. Eventually in the near future i will upgrade it to Koolance QDC fittings at which point the wiring for the entire system will get taken care of in the process. Since this is my daily driver having it down for extended periods just isn't in the cards right now.
> 
> View attachment 105947


hi m8,

The water in your reservoir seems a little bit low ??

cheers


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## crazyeyesreaper (Aug 26, 2018)

It is a bit low to allow for air bubbles currently, still letting them work out of the system. It has gotten a lot quieter but there is still a few air bubbles left to work out. Once the pump is back to running silent like before I will top it off.

Between the leak test and final mount i drained the loop. I ran just distilled water at the time to help flush things out a bit and make sure everything was clean.


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## John Naylor (Aug 27, 2018)

Before putting on a thread police badge, try actually reading Op's posts



crazyeyesreaper said:


> The fun that is mocking up the layout only to realize nothing fits as intended.



The response to Post No 2 details several ways (CAD Drawings  / mockups of making sure that happens

 (#7) ..... the part where the OP asked for ideas on how to hide the QDC fittings



crazyeyesreaper said:


> Now if anyone has any ideas on how to sleeve and or hide the QDC fittings to some extent I am all ears



The response to Post No 7 shows one way hide QDC fittings.

If you actually  read the OPs questions, I don't see how the post could be considered no responsive.


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## John Naylor (Aug 27, 2018)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> It is a bit low to allow for air bubbles currently, still letting them work out of the system. It has gotten a lot quieter but there is still a few air bubbles left to work out. Once the pump is back to running silent like before I will top it off.
> 
> Between the leak test and final mount i drained the loop. I ran just distilled water at the time to help flush things out a bit and make sure everything was clean.



After cleaning the rads with "Blitz Kit", I connect them to the faucet and run water thr them for about 10 minutes.  Next goes a quich flush with DW for about 1 - 2 hours, followed by a 2nd filling of DW which I run cupla days to a week before final flush and full with coolant of choice.

Couple of tips going forward:

I found that the DW and / or coolant will continue to "off gas"  for some time.   

*NOTE:*  Any liquid exposed to air will absorb air and this knowledge is very IMPORTANT.  When this happens pH drops... significantly.  Never leave Distilled Water exposed to air or you will find that in absorbing CO2 from the air, it's pH drops when carbonic acid is formed ... significantly ... down to 5.8 or so.  It only takes about 2 hours.

When using a vertical reservoir, I found the best way to address this is to allow the reservoir to fill to 85-90% and use a fill tube on the reservoir fill line that exits below water.  Any free flowing bubbles will be caught here.  You will still see some bubbles get caught at the highest point.  Again, this is were rad top ports come in handy.   Taking the top port cap off, connected the 12" vertical rigid acrylic tube, topped with the valve and funnel allows this air to escape and be replaced with coolant... unattended  I used to check for air accumulation every 3 months .... now 6.   Recommend draining the system and replacing the coolant every 18 - 24 months.

1.  Shut system down, fill with water ... some add a bit of vinegar (this assumes you did a true chemical flush (Blitz Kit) of system at build time.  Run for 2 hours or whatever is convenient.  This step is going to be more important if using dyed coolant (especially if changing colors) ... no sense wasting DW which ya have to buy to make sure ya refill is tained with old color.  

2.  Shut down and drain again, fill with Distilled water, run for an hour and drain

3.  Shut down and drain again ... run for a week, bleeding if you hear noises

4.  Replace coolant.

Sounds like work, but the drain, fill / bleed and reservoir bleed ports, just takes a few minutes.

Also easy to do with OLC type AIOS like the Swiftech.  If your rad has a side port, also works too.  Use a horizontal piped rigid acrylic extension on the reservor port with valve and cap.  When you want to bleed or fill.

1.  Make sure valve is closed.  Build a horizontal rigid acrylic tube extension long enough to exit thru a 5-1/4 bay or take off front panel if none exists.  At the end of the tube, add an elbow fitting, another vertical extension extending to a point higher than any point on the loop.

2.  Tilt the box back on a desk / table supporting the top back of the case on a  couple of books so that a) the rad fill port is the highest point and b) you can leave all rear wires connected.

3.  Let it run until no noise or bubbles in reservoir, topping off with added coolant as necessary.  If you don't have a reservoir (with air space on top) or  a horizontal one, have to take a spec more care here.

4.  To make sure loop is full, you will not be able to avoid leaving some coolant in the acrylic tube downstram of the valve.  This is no big concern.  Close the valve and tip the box upright again.  Your excess coolant will be in the tube but it cant leak out cause the vertical section is still higher then any point in the system.  Grab a bowl or container then rotate the elbow with one hand while holding the bowl on the other.  Leave the vertical tube pointing down over the bowl and maybe stick a book under the rear of the case.  Once satisfied, remove the acrylic tubing parts and put the cap back on donstreeam of the valve,


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## crazyeyesreaper (Aug 27, 2018)

Okay John, I have been pleasant about it, others made note of it with a colorful post on thread hijacking.

This is not the first time I have done water cooling, in fact its my job here to review many of the coolers and expandable kits and I work closely with my colleagues on other articles and product segments. I also work as an outside consultant helping design coolers and handle product direction. While I appreciate the knowledge you have and the willingness to share, this thread is not the place for it. If you want to do a Q&A and post your knowledge, create a thread and share the knowledge there. The title for this project log is a bit misleading but thats it. It is a title and a fun side project to see what it would entail to make a regular loop appear somewhat like a hard tubing build but without the headaches that come with it.

I wonder how many other modders / users with project logs would tolerate this behavior. I am now politely letting you know it is not appreciated here.

To everyone else,

While the build is now working it is by no means complete a lot of work remains; cable management, some sleeved extensions for better cable routing and for a cleaner looks, curved wrap around tempered glass panel to better protect the pump/res/rad from some wonderfully curious cats, Koolance QDC fittings so the QDCs will better match the nickel plated fittings, LED strips for rear illumination of the radiator and if I find someone that can a custom 24-pin ATX modular cable for the PSU to remove the hideous rainbow wiring.

Best regards


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## blobster21 (Aug 27, 2018)

I'll be waiting the follow up , if you don't mind


Spoiler: Spoiler



*Watercooling Gone bad: Overly Expensive Noob PC ruined*



**


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