# Wiped stock thermal paste off of Wraith Prism cpu cooler and 3600x cpu, replaced with kryonaut. Temperatures higher though?



## Tmansdc (Mar 28, 2020)

I have a 3600x with an asus tuf x570 wi fi mobo and a mattrexx 50 case.

Anyways I had a spare never used wraith prism cooler with the stock paste still and used that instead of the wraith spire. Temperatures dropped and it was working pretty good.

However I had to get into my computer and change my nvme drive so I had to remove the heatsink and in doing so I used 99% rubbing alcohol to completely clean the thermal paste off of the prism and cpu.

I ordered two small 1 gram tubes of kryonaut and just put it on tonight. However the temperatures are higher than they were with the stock paste. I used up the whole tube doing the paste three times. I spread it at first, wiped it off then tried the x method, wiped that off then did the line method.

All three times I did this my temps were higher than before. Cinebench r15 would never go above 77 celsius even during five multi core tests in a row. Immediately it jumps to about 83 celsius now. Also my max boost all core clock on everything stock/auto would boost to 4.1 ghz all core prior to this with the fan switch on high now i get 4.03 at best with full speed high setting cpu cooler fan and by the time the benchmark is over I am around 3.97 ghz. I used to get in the 1620's (1629

was the best I ever got) if I had the prism set to high and full speed in bios and even with silent bios and low setting on the prism I'd get between 1595 and 1605 so about 1600 on average. Now I'm getting that with high speed prism and full fan speed and 1550's! when I'm on low prism fan speed and silent fan bios.

What am I doing wrong? Could I have gotten a bit of the old stock thermal compound under the lid in the area where the i/o die and chiplet is on the cpu and could that affect the heat? Did I put the paste on wrong?

I'm so fed up I just ordered a new wraith prism on ebay to see if that will help and if not then I might just order another 3600x or even just plain 3600. This is crap.

Also when I was cleaning the thermal paste off I think I may have had some get inbetween the small gap between the IHS and the top of the cpu. Could some of that thermal paste have gotten onto the IO Die or chiplet and be effecting that? If so is there a way I can remove that without delidding?


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## phanbuey (Mar 28, 2020)

Tmansdc said:


> I have a 3600x with an asus tuf x570 wi fi mobo and a mattrexx 50 case.
> 
> Anyways I had a spare never used wraith prism cooler with the stock paste still and used that instead of the wraith spire. Temperatures dropped and it was working pretty good.
> 
> ...



You maybe not using enough paste but it could also be the mounting pressure of the cooler changed a bit off the fresh mount and that made a difference...  I know the feeling though -- ive had this happen to me before and it is frustrating.

but the good news is you could be getting much much higher scores and clocks at lower temps... specifically if you tune your chip to lower volts and a 4.2 ghz oc  at around 1.3v (which should be stable and cooler than before).  Just solve the problem another way before you lose your mind swapping coolers.  You will be getting in the low to mid 1700's and your comp wont be baking itself.


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## hat (Mar 28, 2020)

Don't go ordering more coolers or processors, you're fine. There's no way any paste could have gotten under the heatspreader either, so you're fine there too.

We're talking a few degrees C difference. The kryonaut paste should be better than whatever came with the stock cooler, but the stock paste isn't _bad_ either, so you stand to gain little... especially on the stock cooler. The Prism isn't a terrible cooler, but it's not great either. The old paste was probably nice and comfy having sat there for some time, and the new paste hasn't had a chance to work itself in, or "cure" yet. Also, since the Prism isn't exactly a great cooler, I wouldn't expect any lower temps. The already marginal difference between the pastes isn't going to matter much when the cooler is going to be heat soaked either way. 

FWIW, the pea method works best for me. Next time you have to re-seat something, try applying a pea-sized blob of paste, maybe a little more if it's a big chip, and let the mounting pressure spread it. This works best on surfaces that are mostly square. Save the line method for surfaces that are obviously rectangular.

If you're going to buy anything to get your temps lower, buy another cooler... an aftermarket one that will perform better than the Prism.


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## Regeneration (Mar 28, 2020)

Make sure the cooler is mounted correctly but don't overtighten.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 28, 2020)

Tmansdc said:


> I have a 3600x with an asus tuf x570 wi fi mobo and a mattrexx 50 case.
> 
> Anyways I had a spare never used wraith prism cooler with the stock paste still and used that instead of the wraith spire. Temperatures dropped and it was working pretty good.
> 
> ...


Use Spread method, put hsf down and twist a couple of times


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## BrainMuncher (Mar 28, 2020)

Did you take the CPU out of the socket when you re-pasted? If so, sometimes motherboard reset the BIOS settings when you take the CPU out. Your fan curve, voltages, etc. might have changed.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 28, 2020)

BrainMuncher said:


> Did you take the CPU out of the socket when you re-pasted? If so, sometimes motherboard reset the BIOS settings when you take the CPU out. Your fan curve, voltages, etc. might have changed.



Thats a new one...

Never seen that before...


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## oobymach (Mar 28, 2020)

3600x is a hot cpu, and kryonaut is a pita to use, I would go with mx-4 2019 edition, it's cheap and it has more carbon than original mx-4 and spreads thin and easily which is what you want. Kryonaut and other high end pastes aren't worth it imo, too hard to work with for pretty much zero gains or negative gains as you've had.


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## hat (Mar 28, 2020)

I agree, MX-4 is my go-to paste for everything. I recommend it everywhere, however, he already has Kryonaut, so...


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## oobymach (Mar 28, 2020)

hat said:


> I agree, MX-4 is my go-to paste for everything. I recommend it everywhere, however, he already has Kryonaut, so...


Yeah but in his case it's had a negative effect, possibly from bubbling or not enough paste but negative nonetheless which is why I recommended an alternative. It is difficult to get the spread just right with kryonaut, when I tried and tested it I wound up removing it and using something else as it didn't perform as expected for me either.


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## hat (Mar 28, 2020)

oobymach said:


> Yeah but in his case it's had a negative effect, possibly from bubbling or not enough paste but negative nonetheless which is why I recommended an alternative. It is difficult to get the spread just right with kryonaut, when I tried and tested it I wound up removing it and using something else as it didn't perform as expected for me either.


I would still argue that, if the goal here is low temps, he's better served by getting a better cooler than messing around with thermal pastes that will result in single digit differences.


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## Deleted member 67555 (Mar 28, 2020)

Tmansdc said:


> I have a 3600x with an asus tuf x570 wi fi mobo and a mattrexx 50 case.
> 
> Anyways I had a spare never used wraith prism cooler with the stock paste still and used that instead of the wraith spire. Temperatures dropped and it was working pretty good.
> 
> ...


How do you have the heatsink mounted?


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## robot zombie (Mar 28, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Thats a new one...
> 
> Never seen that before...


I feel you... but I've seen it myself, with Asus boards. Don't ask me how it knows you removed it without booting up with no CPU or a different CPU. 

My guess is that it's always being monitored... maybe a standby signal looping through the CPU? All that needs to work is the battery supplying a very weak, but constant signal. Probably wouldn't affect the life of the battery anywhere near like keeping the bios memory alive already does. Remove the CPU and break that signal path, it will know you removed it. And then even if it detects the same CPU, it wouldn't know it was literally the exact same one, and thus wipes the BIOS to configure what it sees as a new CPU. All it knows is that you removed a CPU and installed a CPU. Hell, it could just be cutting the power from the battery when you don't have a CPU installed. Maybe it's cheaper to build it that way?  Definitely would improve storage life of the battery when the mobo isn't in a machine.

Just a guess. I do know that your standard Asus Ryzen boards will wipe your settings if you pull the CPU. Unless I was just unlucky with two different boards.

I wonder if changes to seating could interrupt it significantly enough to trigger that. I would hope the connection isn't that bad, but I have seen reseating CPUs fix things they shouldn't have too many times 

Seems unnessesary, considering there are other easy ways for it to tell if you've inserted a new CPU. Basically any other board will detect it and prompt you to configure a swapped CPU by default, but I don't remember any others ever giving this prompt after simply removing the CPU and reseating it. But yeh, it's a thing.


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## biffzinker (Mar 28, 2020)

robot zombie said:


> I feel you... but I've seen it myself, with Asus boards. Don't ask me how it knows you removed it without booting up with no CPU or a different CPU.
> 
> My guess is that it's always being monitored... maybe a standby signal looping through the CPU? All that needs to work is the battery supplying a very weak, but constant signal. Probably wouldn't affect the life of the battery anywhere near like keeping the bios memory alive already does. Remove the CPU and break that signal path, it will know you removed it. And then even if it detects the same CPU, it wouldn't know it was literally the exact same one, and thus wipes the BIOS to configure what it sees as a new CPU. All it knows is that you removed a CPU and installed a CPU. Hell, it could just be cutting the power from the battery when you don't have a CPU installed. Maybe it's cheaper to build it that way?  Definitely would improve storage life of the battery when the mobo isn't in a machine.
> 
> ...


I've had this with the two MSI B350/B450 boards I've used, still using the B450. Taking the CPU out even though it's the same results in it reseting the BIOS with Default settings, and notifying the CPU was changed. Offers the option to go to the BIOS (press F1) or to continue booting.

I've also seen this on older boards, Socket AM3 Phenom II, and for Intel when I had a Xeon Ivy Bridge (1240 V2)/Devils Canyon Haswell (4790K.)


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## Bones (Mar 28, 2020)

One thing that's being overlooked is Kryonaut was made for extreme OC'ing, not everyday use. It's formulated for just that and many are just assuming since it can be used for XOC it should perform better than standard TIM and it really does under _extreme conditions_.....
As for the everyday useage stuff it's really no better than most any other you can get for less.

I've used it and other stuff for both scenario's, XOC and everyday use and Kryonaut works fine when freezing chips and leaning on them hard because that's what it was made and formulated to be used for but I've also found a few more common TIM's that works fine too, even under LN2.

MX4 carbon is one I've ran before with LN2 - Worked great for it and works well too for everyday stuff, plus it's not as expensive to get and easier to work with.
Using MX4 Carbon now with my daily (x2700) and temps are just fine.


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## Kissamies (Mar 28, 2020)

Phobya HeGrease Extreme user here.. still tho almost every paste spreads similarly, just put a drop on the center of the IHS and let the cooler mounting pressure do the rest.


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## Deleted member 67555 (Mar 28, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> I've had this with the two MSI B350/B450 boards I've used, still using the B450. Taking the CPU out even though it's the same results in it reseting the BIOS with Default settings, and notifying the CPU was changed. Offers the option to go to the BIOS (press F1) or to continue booting.
> 
> I've also seen this on older boards, Socket AM3 Phenom II, and for Intel when I had a Xeon Ivy Bridge (1240 V2)/Devils Canyon Haswell (4790K.)


Funny story..
2 days ago I switched out an i5-2500 for a i5-3570k on a Gigabyte Z77z-UD4H....I assumed the bios would reset and it would know the cpu got switched...but it didn't.
It was running as if the i5-2500 was in there...I had to manually reset to defaults.
I had an MSI Z77 in 2013 and I'm 100% positive you didn't have to reset to default for a cpu change...
I honestly don't remember other than 2 days ago needing to reset the bios for a cpu change, seemed auto..I do remember needing to though...been awhile tho.


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## Tmansdc (Mar 28, 2020)

phanbuey said:


> You maybe not using enough paste but it could also be the mounting pressure of the cooler changed a bit off the fresh mount and that made a difference...  I know the feeling though -- ive had this happen to me before and it is frustrating.
> 
> but the good news is you could be getting much much higher scores and clocks at lower temps... specifically if you tune your chip to lower volts and a 4.2 ghz oc  at around 1.3v (which should be stable and cooler than before).  Just solve the problem another way before you lose your mind swapping coolers.  You will be getting in the low to mid 1700's and your comp wont be baking itself.




I've always read that it's actually not a good idea to undervolt ryzen because although it looks like you gain performance but actually lose some. But if not I'd love to undervolt my processor if it meant better performance and lower temps without getting another cooler. I've done that with my i7-8750h laptop and it works so much better. How would I go about doing that?


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## kaspar737 (Mar 28, 2020)

Previous version of MX4 had nasty degradation when applied straight on die, is 2019 version any better?


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## GoldenX (Mar 28, 2020)

What a crime, the stock paste is of very high quality. At least justify it with a big ass Noctua.


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## Tmansdc (Mar 28, 2020)

Yeah I got another cooler and I'm trying that but I don't think I got it on exactly dead on center so I don't think all the paste is completely covering the cpu ihs. Oh well. I'll still give it a few days to see if that cure time helps.


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## Bones (Mar 29, 2020)

kaspar737 said:


> Previous version of MX4 had nasty degradation when applied straight on die, is 2019 version any better?


I can't positively answer that but since it has carbon in it I don't see it being any worse than other stuff. BTW I've noticed in the past MX2/4 does "Dry" up to what looks like a patch or something on the chip but it still conducts heat well even in that state. 
Carbon itself is about the best heat conductor there is and should be fine for direct die use. If the current formula dries as well it could be the best TIM to use for such applications and only one way to really know.


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## robot zombie (Mar 29, 2020)

Tmansdc said:


> Yeah I got another cooler and I'm trying that but I don't think I got it on exactly dead on center so I don't think all the paste is completely covering the cpu ihs. Oh well. I'll still give it a few days to see if that cure time helps.


Complete coverage isn't required. You'll find a lot of divergent opinions on glob vs spread and all sorts of different patterns. But they tend not to measure far enough off from eachother to mean anything. Small variance, and neither consistently wins out. If you are truly after full coverage, spread is the way. Personally I've been globbing in the middle with Ryzen since gen 1 and had no temperature issues. With paste, if temperatures are in line, you've done it right. If they run away, your cooling solution and case flow are adequate, and you aren't running out of spec or something, that's the time to fix ya gook. Don't be a mook.

The area that needs coverage is in the middle. That's where the dip in the IHS is, and also where the dies that give off the real heat are. The rest is basically just to protect delicate little capacitors/resistors bordering and give support to the plate/spread pressure. The layout of a Ryzen 3000 looks like this:




As you can see, there's nothing going on out there on the edges. Draw a circle around where those dies are and that is where a thin, uniform layer needs to be, if anywhere. It doesn't take much, and it doesn't have to be dead center. Chances are it'll extend well past where the heat actually is regardless.


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## Tmansdc (Mar 29, 2020)

Yeah it was the new wraith prism cooler i got with the stock paste still on. I have it on the cpu now and it seems to be doing ok. Still not quite what it was on the old cooler prior to me wiping off the stock paste and trying kryonaut (made it worse) and I didn't put it dead center and it's spread around a bit on the heatsink and cpu but I'm hoping after a few days cure time I'll have performance back to what I had prior.

Any other power plans, bios settings, etc. that could help with better boost clocks and lower temperatures?


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## hat (Mar 29, 2020)

You could play with undervolting, perhaps, but I'm not skilled enough with Ryzen to really offer good advice there. The most effective thing you can do is get a better cooler.


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## phanbuey (Mar 29, 2020)

Tmansdc said:


> I've always read that it's actually not a good idea to undervolt ryzen because although it looks like you gain performance but actually lose some. But if not I'd love to undervolt my processor if it meant better performance and lower temps without getting another cooler. I've done that with my i7-8750h laptop and it works so much better. How would I go about doing that?



You're not really undervolting, you're just telling it not to go above a certain voltage (1.275 - 1.3v) which with my 3600 is the sweet spot for 4.2 ghz and it made like 15C difference from normal PBO.  Just do a standard OC in the bios with 1.275 or 1.28 v and 4.2Ghz and it will still do the CoolNQuiet and downclock and downvolt at idle/low volt, but it will go straight to 4.2 and that voltage at load without pumping the customary 1.42v into the chip.


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## Tmansdc (Mar 29, 2020)

Yeah as long as I can get 205+ single threaded and 1620+ score in cinebench r15 again I'll be happy.

I don't want to cut too much performance I want the best multi-core and single threaded I can get because I do a wide variety of things on my desktop.


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## Tmansdc (Mar 30, 2020)

Yeah I'm not going to undervolt as that will cut single threaded performance. Any other tips? I'm willing to do modded bios, power plans, chipset drivers, etc. Those are all up to date though.


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## bubbleawsome (Mar 30, 2020)

How would an undervolt cut single thread performance on the new ryzens? As long as it's stable won't it keep the same boost clocks?


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## Tmansdc (Mar 30, 2020)

Nah I've heard it will reduce single threaded clocks but boost multi threaded.

I'm just going to deal with it as is. I'm not putting a backplate on the computer unless I need to upgrade. Next time I get a computer I'm going to have someone assemble it for me.


Honestly I know I get a little paranoid and freaked out over stuff easily because I think I'm going to break something I spent a decent amount on but I have to realize computers aren't that fragile. I got to just chill with this.


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