# Without Ground/Earth temporary for a desktop PC



## P4-630 (Nov 18, 2017)

As the title says.

Would it be ok using a desktop PC _without_ grounding/earth for a week?

(I might be able to use a piece of copper wire from the PC case to a radiator if this would help)


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## sneekypeet (Nov 18, 2017)

While many will highly suggest using grounded outlets, I lived in a house for like 15 years that had two wire (cloth over copper) power. I never ran into any issues, but that does not mean it is not possible to find them.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 18, 2017)

The ground to earth is really there as a safety measure in the event there is a fault in the connected devices. If your computer is is not damaged, you cannot be exposed to any electricity should you, for example, touch the metal case. In others words, it is perfectly safe.

Note that two-wire outlets does not mean it is ungrounded. They are still "polarized" - that is, "hot" is on hot and "neutral" is tied to ground back at the service panel. This where polarized two-prong plugs come in - one is larger than the other so they only go in the socket one way.

Your biggest worry (assuming everything is in good working order) will likely be interference (noise) coming through your speakers. If using analog video (D-Sub) you might see some video noise in your display.

Tying a ground wire to a radiator may or may not work. This is because the hot water plumbing for those systems may not be directly tied to the building's cold water service (input) line via copper pipes the entire way. If there have been any modifications or upgrades over the years, PVC or plastic pipes may be used. 

Also, in older buildings, it is not uncommon for radiators to have several layers of paint on them. Any ground wire needs to be properly bonded to bare metal for proper continuity. It is usually better to use a ground clamp to a cold water supply pipe. 

Galvanized pipes do not provide adequate grounding to Earth. They must be copper. 

If the wiring in the building runs through metal conduit, wrapping a small ground wire to the screw holding the outlet's face plate to the outlet can be used. Or you can use something like this adapter and attach that extra wire to the faceplate screw. But again, this only works if there is metal conduit from the outlet box back to the service panel.


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## Devon68 (Nov 18, 2017)

The outlet my PC was connected to didn't have a ground wire. I used this PC in that outlet since 2012 without problems. A few months ago we renovated my room and we connected a ground wire.


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## P4-630 (Nov 18, 2017)

Bill_Bright said:


> The ground to earth is really there as a safety measure in the event there is a fault in the connected devices. If your computer is is not damaged, you cannot be exposed to any electricity should you, for example, touch the metal case. In others words, it is perfectly safe.
> 
> Note that two-wire outlets does not mean it is ungrounded. They are still "polarized" - that is, "hot" is on hot and "neutral" is tied to ground back at the service panel. This where polarized two-prong plugs come in - one is larger than the other so they only go in the socket one way.
> 
> ...



My computer isn't damaged so in that case it should be safe then as you mentioned.

If interference(noise) from the speakers would be the biggest issue then I'm OK.
I will be using headphones.

It's just temporary.

Thanks!


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## jboydgolfer (Nov 18, 2017)

i used to live in a really old house (many here in my atea are) and it being almost 400 years old, with wiring not quite as old , had no ground type outlets.in almost 40 years,  I've never had any electrical issue nor has anyone I know. No damage from power outages or "phantom" power spikes or lack of a ground , nothing.

U should be fine


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## P4-630 (Nov 18, 2017)

This house here(from my parents) has ground type outlets, just not in the livingroom where I want to use my PC. (because there isn't space at the moment to use my PC somewhere else in this home)


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 18, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> If interference(noise) from the speakers would be the biggest issue then I'm OK.
> I will be using headphones.


If you experience interference, headphones likely will not help. In fact, it may be much more pronounced.


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## P4-630 (Nov 18, 2017)

Bill_Bright said:


> If you experience interference, headphones likely will not help. In fact, it may be much more pronounced.



Well I'll just have to try it then.


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## Jetster (Nov 18, 2017)

Just don't use it while standing in water


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## P4-630 (Nov 18, 2017)

Jetster said:


> Just don't use it while standing in water



Na, it's all dry here in the livingroom.


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## FordGT90Concept (Nov 18, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> This house here(from my parents) has ground type outlets, just not in the livingroom where I want to use my PC. (because there isn't space at the moment to use my PC somewhere else in this home)


I actually encountered some outlets here that were 2-prong but wired for three.  I replaced the outlets, hooked up the ground, and it's all good.  Not saying this the same in your case but it can happen.


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## P4-630 (Nov 18, 2017)

FordGT90Concept said:


> I actually encountered some outlets here that were 2-prong but wired for three.  I replaced the outlets, hooked up the ground, and it's all good.  Not saying this the same in your case but it can happen.



My dad checked a while ago and there isn't a third wire in the livingroom outlets.

I should be ok, don't know how it comes with the interference noise but I'll find out Monday when I try it.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 18, 2017)

> I actually encountered some outlets here that were 2-prong but wired for three. I replaced the outlets, hooked up the ground, and it's all good. Not saying this the same in your case but it can happen.


I had that in a few places in this house too. The house was built in 1960 with two-wires throughout - with some aluminum wiring.  Apparently, before I bought it in 1989, some rewiring was done and new 3 conductor wires were pulled through the walls, floors and ceilings to the outlets but for some reason (budget?) only the outlets where water appeared (kitchen, bathrooms, laundry room) and the garage were replaced with 3-prong outlets. So it was easy to update them all. 


P4-630 said:


> I should be ok, don't know how it comes with the interference noise but I'll find out Monday when I try it.


Hopefully there will be none. But understand if some, the source may be some other nearby device, not the computer.


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 19, 2017)

Bill, the larger prong is neutral, as long as polarity is right at the socket and breaker...


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## xkm1948 (Nov 19, 2017)

My current house only had 2 wires. Been using them for ~3years without any problem. Old house sucks.


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## TheGuruStud (Nov 19, 2017)

I lan partied at a friend's house without ground when I was a kid. After a few hours EVERYTHING metal (including the CPU heatsink) became charged and would lightly shock you LOL.
That hasn't happened anywhere else, but it was odd to say the least.

There's no real danger other than a spike will definitely kill the PC easily. The PSU won't be able to shunt it.

I'd use a surge protector (good one or UPS) and ground it to the radiator (clean up the metal of course).

After losing some stuff to the worthless utility company, I installed shunts on every cat5 and the coaxial. No issues since and I've witnessed lightning striking the power line right outside multiple times. Transformer was working luckily.


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## natr0n (Nov 19, 2017)

Wear rubber shoes and gloves.


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## TheLostSwede (Nov 19, 2017)

Bill_Bright said:


> Note that two-wire outlets does not mean it is ungrounded. They are still "polarized" - that is, "hot" is on hot and "neutral" is tied to ground back at the service panel. This where polarized two-prong plugs come in - one is larger than the other so they only go in the socket one way.



That is only true in North America and doesn't even apply to all plugs, as some device have unpolarised plugs. 

European (German style) CEE 7/3 sockets and CEE 7/4 plugs aren't polarised, but then again, I've never heard of anyone that has a problem using their computers in older homes in Europe that don't have grounded sockets. There's even a high-amperage ungrounded plug called CEE 7/17 that can go either way into a CEE 7/3 socket, but if you've got French style CEE 7/5 sockets, then you can't turn the plugs around, as the ground pin in the French sockets only allow for the plugs to be inserted one way, whereas the German plug allows you to plug them in either which way around. Both sockets can accept Euro plugs, which are ungrounded and non polarised, but limited to 2.5A.

That said, it's kind of true in the UK and other countries using the British type plugs, since you can't insert them the wrong way around, as the ground pin is needed or you don't get any power.
Also, the Swiss have their own plug that only goes in one way. 

This stuff is complicated...


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 19, 2017)

eidairaman1 said:


> Bill, the larger prong is neutral, as long as polarity is right at the socket and breaker...


I did not say otherwise. The point I was making is the larger prong on a polarized plug ensures the plug can only go in a polarized socket one way. If the socket and/or breaker panel were incorrectly wired, somebody probably would have discovered that years ago - the hard way, hopefully not catastrophically.


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## cucker tarlson (Nov 19, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> As the title says.
> 
> Would it be ok using a desktop PC _without_ grounding/earth for a week?
> 
> (I might be able to use a piece of copper wire from the PC case to a radiator if this would help)



If other devices don't have trouble running in that house because of this, then the PC will not either. I've got two wires in my house and it's never been a problem for any device, including any kitchen,bathroom or living room equipment, electric house/garden tools AND both entry-level and high-end PCs. No electricity on the case, no interference whatsoever. I've got a quality psu and a good power bar for my pc, but anything else just runs off the wall socket or cheap extension cables.
Basically, it's what Bill Bright said. If grounding was a problem, the house would've been impossible to live in for years, there'd have been a high probabilty of getting a shock from anything plugged into a socket.


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## Aquinus (Nov 19, 2017)

I'm living in a house that was built in 1902 if I recall correctly. Before I moved in, we had a junction box installed and several circuits run up to the attic (since it's unfinished and easily accessible.) 1 split phase, and 1 single phase circuit goes to the washer and dryer we put upstairs (I live on the 2nd floor,) and two were run into was is currently my office. One output was put close to the window so I could safely power a window shaker and the second was installed on the opposite side of the room with 4 outlets. Later on, we used another circuit and ran it across the attic and dropped it behind the TV in the living room. The main reason for doing this was to get a safe circuit for the window shaker, and the other two were to make sure my computer, the TV, and internet hardware was grounded.

For the computer, I just wanted to keep it safe and I didn't want the AC to burn the house down from setting old paper wiring insulation on fire. As for the TV, it wasn't a big deal until I realized that the "grounded" light was lit on the surge protector on a *2-wire circuit*. I found this very weird and I quickly realized that the coax connection to the cable box was relaying the ground through the shielding on the coax cable since the shield on the outside is grounded from the splitter. I also realized that when I went to connect the cable that *it would shock me*. Surely enough, that cable box also eventually failed but, for that very reason, having grounded outlets are important because if it's not, you have absolutely no idea what might become the ground or rather complete the circuit. Ideally, that shouldn't be a person.

So just to reiterate: That 3rd wire is a safety precaution.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 19, 2017)

Aquinus said:


> and 1 single phase circuit goes to the washer and dryer


To the dryer? Is that a gas dryer? Gas dryers only need 115VAC to spin the drum and run the control panel. But electric dryers need 230VAC for the heating element in the same way ovens need 230VAC. 



Aquinus said:


> until I realized that the "grounded" light was lit on the surge protector on a *2-wire circuit*.


Note that light (often seen on UPSs too) typically indicates a "lack" of a ground since surge and spike protectors depend on an "Earth" ground to shunt/dump excessive voltage safely to ground. This is what makes your last sentence that more pertinent,


Aquinus said:


> So just to reiterate: That 3rd wire is a safety precaution.


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## Aquinus (Nov 19, 2017)

Bill_Bright said:


> To the dryer? Is that a gas dryer? Gas dryers only need 115VAC to spin the drum and run the control panel. But electric dryers need 230VAC for the heating element in the same way ovens need 230VAC.


I said 1 split-phase circuit and 1 single phase. It's an electric dryer on the 3-wire, split phase. The washing machine is connected to the 115v single phase.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 19, 2017)

Just making sure since the order in which you said it in your first post may not have been clear to all. Thanks.


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