# Finally! Permission to build!



## Bokteelo (Mar 19, 2009)

Alright, I'll make a long story short. I came to these forums a few weeks ago and asked for help to put together a budget gaming rig. (Around 800-1000.) I was then told that if I was willing wait until a certain someone's stocks were doing better, I'd have a larger budget!

I asked some people, and almost all of them told me to wait because the extra money could take my future build a lot farther. Well, here I am again, back and ready to build! I learned quite a bit in the first thread I made, and I have some parts in mind. 
(Well, I actually spent the last 5-7 hours putting this build together.)

I have yet to go over budget, but I honestly do not want to spend more than $2,000 for a gaming computer. I'm going to overclock this rig and it MUST last me about 5 years. (With incremental upgrades of course.)

So, any opinions/recommendations? If I screwed something up, please do tell me. *(I'm still a beginner, this is my first computer so I'm expecting some problems.)*

*Final Build:*


----------



## KBD (Mar 19, 2009)

Nice rig, looks like you done your homework. id just get a different HDD, may be a WD Se16 320 or 640 or a Samsung Spinpoint F1. BTW, where is the motherboard?


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 19, 2009)

Oh, did I forget the motherboard? Could've sworn I slapped on the Asus P6T! Thanks for pointing that out.

Edit: Actually, should I go for Asus P6T or P6T Deluxe? The price difference isn't too great, so which one would be the most ideal?


----------



## LittleLizard (Mar 19, 2009)

p6t ? that is nice motherboard. you can also go with the dfi dk but its bios is more for the expert overclocker, still nice rig. also exchange the hdd for 2 seagate 7200.12 and put a nice raid setup


----------



## KBD (Mar 19, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Oh, did I forget the motherboard? Could've sworn I slapped on the Asus P6T! Thanks for pointing that out.



Im no i7 expert but i thought i heard guys saying bad things about the P6T line. From what i hear, Gigabyte and DFI did a good job with X58. Someone will correct me if i'm wrong


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 19, 2009)

KBD said:


> Im no i7 expert but i thought i heard guys saying bad things about the P6T line. From what i hear, Gigabyte and DFI did a good job with X58. Someone will correct me if i'm wrong



See, that very issue put me in a dilemma a few hours ago. I'm not sure whether I should go with Asus or Gigabyte. I guess I'll wait for some replies.


----------



## Flyordie (Mar 19, 2009)

Sure i7 will last you but you need VERY GOOD water or DICE to get 4Ghz+ 24/7 stable.
i7 when it gets to the 3.8Ghz range produces so much heat even the newer Dtek blocks have trouble keeping the sucker below 80C.  

Just be warned, the i7 isn't an OCers friend. However it should last you 3-5 yrs.

On the GPU side of things.. your good there... stick with 1 HD4870 until the HD5870X4 or an X2... ( and yes X4) comes out in Nov 09. You should be pleased with whats in store then.  ;-)


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 19, 2009)

Flyordie said:


> Sure i7 will last you but you need VERY GOOD water or DICE to get 4Ghz+ 24/7 stable.
> i7 when it gets to the 3.8Ghz range produces so much heat even the newer Dtek blocks have trouble keeping the sucker below 80C.
> 
> Just be warned, the i7 isn't an OCers friend. However it should last you 3-5 yrs.
> ...



Hm, should I really? I honestly don't mind having 1 less card in there if it means saving money for huge upgrades later on.

And water cooling... jeez I'm a bit scared. Should I go all out and get a WC system?


----------



## Flyordie (Mar 19, 2009)

Well, its what I would do.  HD4870 is plenty enough to plow through most if not all games at a respectable frame rate and quality.  I just expect there to be a 70-100% increase in GPU power for the next gen from ATI.

--
On water cooling... if your not comfortable with it, you don't have to... just don't expect a 4Ghz OC on that i7 with air.  and on what LittleLizard said... not the V8.. the V12! lolz.)


----------



## LittleLizard (Mar 19, 2009)

no, watercooling for non expert no, get just very high end air cooling (v8, true, u12P)


----------



## KBD (Mar 19, 2009)

LittleLizard said:


> no, watercooling for non expert no, get just very high end air cooling (v8, true, u12P)



yea, hes already getting a Xigmatek-S1284EE, he is OK.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 19, 2009)

^Phew! I was on Google and Newegg looking up the V12, I thought my 1284 would be enough. Glad to know it is! And to not being able to reach 4.0, DARN! I honestly wanted to get the i7 running at 4.0... my goal was to get my CPU running at 4.0 on my first custom built computer + overclocking attempt.

And Binge, I tend to do some light gaming, watch lots of videos, and all I'm looking for my computer to do is last me 5 years.

I will consider your monitor.

Could you recommend some memory?


----------



## Binge (Mar 19, 2009)

What do you want to do with your computer?  What kind of performance do you want to see?

From personal experience when I went i7 I decided I would not skimp on any aspect that had a benefit in going all out.  This means motherboard, graphics, and power supply... Memory well DDR3 triple channel is very young and I don't see enough of a variation in performance of the sticks to justify spending more than $100 for 6GB.

Your monitor is a good choice, and I can make a suggestion to look at the ASUS VH222H.  It's what I upgraded to from the monitor you're looking at and I must say the difference is noticeable.  Hmmm... your PSU is a good one.  I've done a lot with that exact PSU it's a lot of power for 750W.  Then the last thing I have to point out is that ATi really bit themselves in the junk with the 4870.  It's just not good enough to warrant the price tag.  2x4830 if you're a cheapo, a good 4870 like the ASUS matrix edition if you're looking to actually overclock (not suggested for newbies), or 4850 crossfire... but that's if you want to stay with team red.  I think the GTX260 192/216/55nm 216 are AMAZING cards for the price and if you can afford it get yourself a 280/285/295.  The GTX cards run cool, kill games, and are less noisy than my 4870 ever was.  People will argue all sorts of things like I've got too many balls to make that statement, but I just don't play GRID so why the hell should I own a 48XX card?  lol flame on guys.  Tell me and this guy all about how you compare cards after factoring in tons of AA.  Just let this guy know that if he wants to be cool he should sacrifice frames by going ATi then to add insult to injury turn his AA on full blast because then his card would "win" if he were to compare his card to an nV card with the same AA.  FLAME ON!!!!

Well so that's it friend... in summary:


Pick a good x58 motherboard that suits your needs.
The best memory for a newbie is 1600MHz CAS 8 @ $100.  That 1855MHz stuff you will likely never push that hard if you are in fact a newbie.
Get a less expensive case or one that will give you better watercooling options.  You'll eventually want to go water cooling since you have an i7.
Get a Thermalright TRUE (it's a cpu cooler) instead of that rifle.  You'll be doing yourself a favor.
Ditch the 4870 and get 2x 4850 (which is not so user friendly), or a GTX260/280/285/295


----------



## Binge (Mar 19, 2009)

KBD said:


> Im no i7 expert but i thought i heard guys saying bad things about the P6T line. From what i hear, Gigabyte and DFI did a good job with X58. Someone will correct me if i'm wrong



You are correct sir.  The current favorites are DFI, Gigabyte, Foxconn, and MSI.


----------



## KBD (Mar 19, 2009)

Binge said:


> You are correct sir.  The current favorites are DFI, Gigabyte, Foxconn, and MSI.



About Foxconn, if they fixed the BIOS on the Bloodrage thats a great board feature-wise. They were just people complaining about it being very buggy, but that was prolly the initial release.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 19, 2009)

Okay, system overload. Too much information for my rookie brain to process at once. I'll look into new memory, got 2 320GB HDDs for RAID, and am looking into Gigabyte mobos.

Edit: Going to look into the 4850 Crossfire now.


----------



## Binge (Mar 19, 2009)

the UD4P is a great one.  The cost is right and doesn't have anything extra that you don't need.



KBD said:


> About Foxconn, if they fixed the BIOS on the Bloodrage thats a great board feature-wise. They were just people complaining about it being very buggy, but that was prolly the initial release.



From what I understand that was a lot of mud slinging by reps from other companies.  Go look on XS.  They love the bloodrage over there, and have since the initial release.


----------



## KBD (Mar 19, 2009)

Binge said:


> From what I understand that was a lot of mud slinging by reps from other companies.  Go look on XS.  They love the bloodrage over there, and have since the initial release.



Could be so, i did see the XS thread, but i just wanted to bring out the concerns in case the OP considers it so he can do his own research.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 19, 2009)

Okay, shoot me if I sound like an idiot. What is the difference between:

4850x2 vs. 4850 Crossfire

They're both two cards aren't they? That's all it is... right? *Bangs head on desk.*

Edit: Yes I am looking to OC... I'm going to overclock every damn thing I can, it's my first rig and I want to juice all the fun out of it!


----------



## KBD (Mar 19, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Okay, shoot me if I sound like an idiot. What is the difference between:
> 
> 4850x2 vs. 4850 Crossfire
> 
> They're both two cards aren't they? That's all it is... right? *Bangs head on desk.*



Essentially, yes. the X2 is 2 4850 GPUs on one PCB. But from what i hear the 4850X2 is not very well supported by ATI and 2 4850 in crossfire have been recomended for ages as an excellent combination. I myself would prefer to get 2 single cards vs. an X2 at least in case of ATI cards. But see what 4850X2 owners say.


----------



## Binge (Mar 19, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Okay, shoot me if I sound like an idiot. What is the difference between:
> 
> 4850x2 vs. 4850 Crossfire
> 
> ...



completely different.  If you get into the mindset of the company that makes these cards the 4850 is a single pcb with it's own independent power system.  Good.  The 4850x2 has one power system to deal with two processors and sets of memory??!?!?  Ok so... it takes some real engineering to make that work, and the outcome is that it's not as flexible as a 4850 in crossfire.  The 4850x2 has terrible support, and if you hate noise you'll hate the 4850x2... it is LOUD.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 19, 2009)

KBD said:


> Essentially, yes. the X2 is 2 4850 GPUs on one PCB. But from what i hear the 4850X2 is not very well supported by ATI and 2 4850 in crossfire have been recomended for ages as an excellent combination. I myself would prefer to get 2 single cards vs. an X2 at least in case of ATI cards. But see what 4850X2 owners say.



Okay... so they're similar but not exactly the same thing? *Gasp*



Binge said:


> completely different.  If you get into the mindset of the company that makes these cards the 4850 is a single pcb with it's own independent power system.  Good.  The 4850x2 has one power system to deal with two processors and sets of memory??!?!?  Ok so... it takes some real engineering to make that work, and the outcome is that it's not as flexible as a 4850 in crossfire.  The 4850x2 has terrible support, and if you hate noise you'll hate the 4850x2... it is LOUD.



Thanks for clarifying even more, I think I'll grab myself either 2 4850's or 1 4870. Which would you recommend?


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 19, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> ^Phew! I was on Google and Newegg looking up the V12, I thought my 1284 would be enough. Glad to know it is! And to not being able to reach 4.0, DARN! I honestly wanted to get the i7 running at 4.0... my goal was to get my CPU running at 4.0 on my first custom built computer + overclocking attempt.
> 
> And Binge, I tend to do some light gaming, watch lots of videos, and all I'm looking for my computer to do is last me 5 years.
> 
> ...



I would agree that water cooling may be a bit much for a first time builder. However, you most likely will NOT be happy with your temps with that Xig cooler. These chips run very hot. If you are planning to shoot for 4.0ghz, you are going to want a TRUE at a minimum, and with a $2000 budget, you could probably get a local enthusiast to help you set up water cooling, if you really want to be safe.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 19, 2009)

Paulieg said:


> I would agree that water cooling may be a bit much for a first time builder. However, you most likely will NOT be happy with your temps with that Xig cooler. These chips run very hot. If you are planning to shoot for 4.0ghz, you are going to want a TRUE at a minimum, and with a $2000 budget, you could probably get a local enthusiast to help you set up water cooling, if you really want to be safe.



Was just about to bring up the water cooling issue. What would be a good case for it? (I'm guessing it's going to be a full tower at the very least.)

Edit: And how about recommending some RAM? I'm looking into OCZ/Corsair, but I'm sure there are other brands. Would 4 GB be enough or should I shoot for 6?

Edit2: I might actually go for 2 4870's... it'll be under $100 difference between the 4870 and 4850...


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 19, 2009)

Case:HAF 932. Excellent for water cooling, and reasonably priced.

Memory, buy these. These are Micron D9JNM sticks. Best you will find for the price. Get 2x4GB, and keep one stick in case one fails. You really want to run 6GB in triple channel for the best performance. 

http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=W1333UX4GM

As far as gpu goes. You really should look into the gtx260's right now. In my opinion, they are best bang for the buck.


----------



## KBD (Mar 19, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Was just about to bring up the water cooling issue. What would be a good case for it? (I'm guessing it's going to be a full tower at the very least.)



Full tower for sure, good cases would be Silverstone Tj-07, Coolermaster HAF 932, may be Stacker 830, certain Lian-Li models, Thermaltake Armor+, Mountain Mods cases which are optimized for water cooling, there are others but these come to mind first.
Antec 1200 is a great case, its just not for water, for air its excellent. I wouldnt recomend water cooling for a first time builder though, if you really want to though id get a kit like Swiftech H20 Compact or one of Petra's kits and get someone to help you if possible.


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 19, 2009)

KBD said:


> Full tower for sure, good cases would be Silverstone Tj-07, Coolermaster HAF 932, may be Stacker 830, certain Lian-Li models, Thermaltake Armor+, Mountain Mods cases which are optimized for water cooling, there are others but these come to mind first.
> Antec 1200 is a great case, its just not for water, for air its excellent. I wouldnt recomend water cooling for a first time builder though, if you really want to though id get a kit like Swiftech H20 Compact or one of Petra's kits and get someone to help you if possible.



If you go water, go custom. I had that Swiftech compact kit about a year or so ago, and it will NOT handle an i7.


----------



## KBD (Mar 19, 2009)

Paulieg said:


> If you go water, go custom. I had that Swiftech compact kit about a year or so ago, and it will NOT handle an i7.



In that case, he is better off sticking with air, custom setup is NOT for everyone. 

Second thought, how about a CoolIT Domino, good for i7?


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 19, 2009)

KBD said:


> In that case, he is better off sticking with air, custom setup is NOT for everyone.
> 
> Second thought, how about a CoolIT Domino, good for i7?



That I'm not sure about. However, the Eliminator would not handle an i7, so I'd guess probably not. A simple custom WC is easier than it seems, especially if you take the advice of the resident experts here.


----------



## phanbuey (Mar 19, 2009)

for that budget, you can ditch that case and that cooler and pick this up 

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...ge=product_info&cPath=59_262&products_id=4269

I would also get the custom window for that case.

Watercooling is actually really easy... The hard parts are to pick out the right components (which anyone here can help you with) and fitting the radiator 2x120 or greater to the case...  If I was you and building from scratch, I would get a case already pre-drilled with the rad and fans WC parts so you dont have to worry about the second part.

After that its a matter of screwing in the fittings (very easy) cutting out tubing and testing for leaks... The advantages of a good WC system are exponential with an i7 just because they run so insanely hot.


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 19, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> for that budget, you can ditch that case and that cooler and pick this up
> 
> http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...ge=product_info&cPath=59_262&products_id=4269
> 
> I would also get the custom window for that case.



Meh, you still have to buy and install your own blocks and pump. Might as well buy a case with more room, and get better water cooling parts.


----------



## phanbuey (Mar 19, 2009)

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...ge=product_info&cPath=59_262&products_id=3727

ok what about that one... all you need is an i7 adapter plate.  A bit pricey but its a nice setup.


----------



## KBD (Mar 19, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...ge=product_info&cPath=59_262&products_id=3727
> 
> ok what about that one... all you need is an i7 adapter plate.  A bit pricey but its a nice setup.



I always liked the Aurora 570, thats actually a nice setup, i think the rad has a reservoir in it already which is pretty convenient.


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 19, 2009)

I think we've overloaded the OP. He's probably passed out next to his computer.


----------



## phanbuey (Mar 19, 2009)

KBD said:


> I always liked the Aurora 570, thats actually a nice setup, i think the rad has a reservoir in it already which is pretty convenient.



nah thats the version without the rez... the case kit has a drivebay rez in it..  that kit alone runs $240ish and then the case is another $150ish (for the 570,  $120 for the GZ)... 

Its basically the same as buying the parts on your own and then paying someone $70 bucks to spend several hours putting it all together...

Just an idea for a first kit.  After you see it in action you will be able to put it together no problems.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 20, 2009)

Paulieg said:


> I think we've overloaded the OP. He's probably passed out next to his computer.



I passed on my bed, partially because of so much info at one time! I'll stick with air cooling for now unless water is my only option if I want to safely OC to 4.0... I thought 6 fans would do the job, guess not!

Right now I'm still looking into RAM, I appreciate the recommendations but I don't want to order off any website but Newegg. (Sorry I didn't inform you of this earlier.)

And $500 for a case?!?! That's worse than how the gas prices were back 6 months ago!


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 20, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> I passed on my bed, partially because of so much info at one time! I'll stick with air cooling for now unless water is my only option if I want to safely OC to 4.0... I thought 6 fans would do the job, guess not!
> 
> Right now I'm still looking into RAM, I appreciate the recommendations but I don't want to order off any website but Newegg. (Sorry I didn't inform you of this earlier.)
> 
> And $500 for a case?!?! That's worse than how the gas prices were back 6 months ago!



Well, if you must go newegg, then get these. Do NOT get scared off because they are only 1066 sticks and don't have heatspreaders. They are Micron D9 sticks, and will do 1600+ with cas 7 or 8 timings, and you can buy cheap copper heatspreaders for them. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148246

As for the cooler...dammit, go outside the box and buy this here:

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/thulexbled.html


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 20, 2009)

Paulieg said:


> Well, if you must go newegg, then get these. Do NOT get scared off because they are only 1066 sticks and don't have heatspreaders. They are Micron D9 sticks, and will do 1600+ with cas 7 or 8 timings, and you can buy cheap copper heatspreaders for them.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148246
> 
> ...



Alright, I'll grab the cooler. If possible, how about some RAM from Sidewinder? Or RAM + spreader. (Since I'm already shopping there.) I honestly don't want to give myself anymore trouble than I need. I thought I had a great build going on too! =[ Wow, that cooler is going to cost $100.

Edit: Okay so Sidewinder doesn't sell RAM! But they do sell heatspreaders!


----------



## KBD (Mar 20, 2009)

Paulieg said:


> As for the cooler...dammit, go outside the box and buy this here:
> 
> http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/thulexbled.html



Oh, and the OP will need an adapter bracket for 1366, this one:

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/thlgboreboxb.html

Same for Xigmatek-S1284EE, it needs a 1366 adapter as well if he still goes that way, newegg has them in stock i think.



Bokteelo said:


> I appreciate the recommendations but I don't want to order off any website but Newegg. (Sorry I didn't inform you of this earlier.)



Newegg is great and has a crazy selection but sometimes you gotta buy from other places as Newegg doesnt carry some of the extreme stuff. I can personally vouch that Sidewinder computers is a safe place to buy from and their prices are very competitive in comparison to other enthusiast shops.



Bokteelo said:


> And $500 for a case?!?! That's worse than how the gas prices were back 6 months ago!



You misunderstand, its not just the case you are getting but a complete custom water cooling system already installed in it which will save a beginner like you a lot of trouble not to mention that all the components are among the best on the market, for that price you cant beat it as phanbuey pointed out.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 20, 2009)

Alright, added the adapter to my cart. As for RAM, fine I'll go with the Crucial 6GB kit but which RAM cooler should I get? There's a good selection on Sidewinder!


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 20, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Alright, I'll grab the cooler. If possible, how about some RAM from Sidewinder? Or RAM + spreader. (Since I'm already shopping there.) I honestly don't want to give myself anymore trouble than I need. I thought I had a great build going on too! =[ Wow, that cooler is going to cost $100.
> 
> Edit: Okay so Sidewinder doesn't sell RAM! But they do sell heatspreaders!



Buy the ram I linked, and these heatspreaders. I have them, and they are great for the money:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835110105

That combo will rival any DDR3 sticks on the market, except maybe $300 sets with Elpida Hyper IC's.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 20, 2009)

KBD said:


> You misunderstand, its not just the case you are getting but a complete custom water cooling system already installed in it which will save a beginner like you a lot of trouble not to mention that all the components are among the best on the market, for that price you cant beat it as phanbuey pointed out.



If I go with that case, I won't need my $100 CPU cooler right? (How is water cooling managed over long periods?) If I go water cooling, what exactly am I going to be replacing in general? Like, I know I won't need the CPU cooler, what else?


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 20, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> If I go with that case, I won't need my $100 CPU cooler right? (How is water cooling managed over long periods?)



Ugh, don't buy that case! Give me 5 minutes, and I'm going to put something together for you.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 20, 2009)

Paulieg said:


> Ugh, don't buy that case! Give me 5 minutes, and I'm going to put something together for you.



You're awesome, thanks!

Oh and I'm going to order 3 of those heatspreaders right?


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 20, 2009)

Here you go! I forgot to add the hardrive. Still, a great system, under budget, and a perfect case if you decide to get watercooling in the future.


----------



## KBD (Mar 20, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Oh and I'm going to order 3 of those heatspreaders right?




i personally like these better:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233010

but to each is own, i clock my RAM like crazy so i need those fans, lol


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 20, 2009)

Paulieg, your system has a lot of different parts to the one I've got now. I'm not sure when I'll be doing water cooling, probably not soon. I'll settle for air w/ 3.8 if it'll save me a lot of trouble.


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 20, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Paulieg, your system has a lot of different parts to the one I've got now. I'm not sure when I'll be doing water cooling, probably not soon. I'll settle for air w/ 3.8 if it'll save me a lot of trouble.



Well, the case is a very individual choice. Trust in the other items I listed. They are all very solid. If you want a higher end board, I'd say go with a Foxconn Blood Rage, or the DFI UT.



KBD said:


> i personally like these better:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233010
> 
> but to each is own, i clock my RAM like crazy so i need those fans, lol



Trust me. The copper more than does the job on my DDR3 sticks, which are currently clocked to 1800mhz. The spreaders are still cool to the touch. No need to those noisy little fans.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 20, 2009)

Looked into the Blood Rage and DFI UT, the Rage seems to have an unstable BIOS whereas the DFI seems to have an overly complicated BIOS. I'll stick with my UD4P, unless I'm mistaken.

Edit: How about a mobo that will allow me to manually control fans? The UD4P, from a review I just read, doesn't have that option.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 20, 2009)

KBD said:


> Essentially, yes. the X2 is 2 4850 GPUs on one PCB. But from what i hear the 4850X2 is not very well supported by ATI and 2 4850 in crossfire have been recomended for ages as an excellent combination. I myself would prefer to get 2 single cards vs. an X2 at least in case of ATI cards. But see what 4850X2 owners say.





Binge said:


> completely different.  If you get into the mindset of the company that makes these cards the 4850 is a single pcb with it's own independent power system.  Good.  The 4850x2 has one power system to deal with two processors and sets of memory??!?!?  Ok so... it takes some real engineering to make that work, and the outcome is that it's not as flexible as a 4850 in crossfire.  The 4850x2 has terrible support, and if you hate noise you'll hate the 4850x2... it is LOUD.



4850x2 is fully support in ATI's drivers since 9.1. Support issues are now non-existent.

That's not to say it's the best choice tho.

With SLI as an option on the X58 boards, I'd go with 2 GTX260s over the 4870's.


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 20, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Looked into the Blood Rage and DFI UT, the Rage seems to have an unstable BIOS whereas the DFI seems to have an overly complicated BIOS. I'll stick with my UD4P, unless I'm mistaken.
> 
> Edit: How about a mobo that will allow me to manually control fans? The UD4P, from a review I just read, doesn't have that option.



The Blood Rage had early bios issues. Not now though. DON"T rely on Newegg reviews. XS forums has threads dedicated to the Blood Rage, and our own systemviper has had great success with it. The DFI has a learning curve, but once you know it, it's the best bios to work with, period. Not to say the Gigabyte is a bad choice though. If you want control of fans, buy a fan controller.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 20, 2009)

KBD said:


> Full tower for sure, good cases would be Silverstone Tj-07, Coolermaster HAF 932, may be Stacker 830, certain Lian-Li models, Thermaltake Armor+, Mountain Mods cases which are optimized for water cooling, there are others but these come to mind first.
> Antec 1200 is a great case, its just not for water, for air its excellent. I wouldnt recomend water cooling for a first time builder though, if you really want to though id get a kit like Swiftech H20 Compact or one of Petra's kits and get someone to help you if possible.



Don't get the Stacker 830 for water. Believe or not, it gets cramped.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 20, 2009)

Wile E! Been waiting for you all day. Can always count on good ol' Wile E! 

What changes would you make for my current system?


----------



## Wile E (Mar 20, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Wile E! Been waiting for you all day. Can always count on good ol' Wile E!
> 
> What changes would you make for my current system?


Are you still going with the UD4P? If so, I'd say it's looking pretty good. I'm a bit of a glutton tho, so if it were my build I'd probably go with the 940 or 965. lol.

Aside from that, I might do 2 GTX260's instead of the 4870's. They seem to clock better.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 20, 2009)

There's been a lot of discussion in this thread about different cards... 4850, 4870, 260, 285. If I can't see a significant difference, I'll go with the 4870 w/ Crossfire.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 20, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> There's been a lot of discussion in this thread about different cards... 4850, 4870, 260, 285. If I can't see a significant difference, I'll go with the 4870 w/ Crossfire.



Well, the 260's do offer Physx support. (I kinda miss it, but then again, I really like playing GRAW and GRAW2.)

Judgment call, really. Go with what you prefer. I'd grab the 1GB 4870's if I was going ATI.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 20, 2009)

What brands should I be looking at for the 4870's?


----------



## Wile E (Mar 20, 2009)

Powercolor, Sapphire, Asus

My MSI 4850 has treated me well, too.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 20, 2009)

Does core clock really matter? A lot of them are like 50-60MHz different.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 20, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Does core clock really matter? A lot of them are like 50-60MHz different.



Nah, most OC to around the same levels.

Or better yet, you can grab this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102768

Costs about the same as 2 4870 1GB's anyway.

It should be known that ATI is currently having more driver issues than nVidia currently. That seems to go back and forth tho.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 20, 2009)

Wile E said:


> Nah, most OC to around the same levels.
> 
> Or better yet, you can grab this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102768
> 
> ...



I'm not sure if I should get an x2 or just hook them up with crossfire. I think KBD or Paulieg said that crossfire gives better performance.

I'm debating between the following two:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127400
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102801


----------



## phanbuey (Mar 20, 2009)

Wile E said:


> Nah, most OC to around the same levels.
> 
> Or better yet, you can grab this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102768
> 
> ...



Yeah they do... im using the 178.24's because my GTX 260's freeze with a green screen and a re-looping sound at stock clocks in l4d with anything newer.

and I used to rag on ATI's drivers  haha...


----------



## Wile E (Mar 20, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> I'm not sure if I should get an x2 or just hook them up with crossfire. I think KBD or Paulieg said that crossfire gives better performance.



From what I've seen, the X2 does better.

And think of it this way, more room in your case to work with, or the option of adding another ATI card to it for Tri or Quad Crossfire. Just trying to maximize the upgrade path.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 20, 2009)

Wile E said:


> From what I've seen, the X2 does better.
> 
> And think of it this way, more room in your case to work with, or the option of adding another ATI card to it for Tri or Quad Crossfire. Just trying to maximize the upgrade path.



I've never thought of it this way... HMM!! I'm lost.


----------



## Fleck (Mar 20, 2009)

Wile E said:


> Nah, most OC to around the same levels.
> 
> Or better yet, you can grab this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102768
> 
> ...



I've never heard of this back and forth.  ATI has had driver issues since their real performance GPUs came out in the Radeon 9500/9800 and it's apparently been the same since, but I've never had an issue with an nVidia card.  This forum almost had me convinced to go back to ATI, then I started reading how ATI drivers are still a nightmare.  No thanks, I'll spend the extra money on a good old stable nVidia card (and the 9800GTX+ has pleased me wholesomely).


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 20, 2009)

I'm getting a full tower, so if possible could I grab 2 4870's for now, and still have room for 2 more? (Same as 4870x2 x2?)


----------



## Wile E (Mar 20, 2009)

Fleck said:


> I've never heard of this back and forth.  ATI has had driver issues since their real performance GPUs came out in the Radeon 9500/9800 and it's apparently been the same since, but I've never had an issue with an nVidia card.  This forum almost had me convinced to go back to ATI, then I started reading how ATI drivers are still a nightmare.  No thanks, I'll spend the extra money on a good old stable nVidia card (and the 9800GTX+ has pleased me wholesomely).



No, they haven't had driver issues since the 9800 series. Their drivers have been solid for a couple years now, aside from the past 4 or 5 months.

I had driver issues with my 8800GT's on the 160 series. Then they were fine after 168.xx, iirc. nVidia is just as prone to releasing a bad string of drivers. It's happened more than once from both manufacturers.



Bokteelo said:


> I'm getting a full tower, so if possible could I grab 2 4870's for now, and still have room for 2 more? (Same as 4870x2 x2?)



Not really. They take up too much space with their coolers. I'd honestly grab the X2 over 2 4870's


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 20, 2009)

Alright, I'll think about 2x over x2.


----------



## Fleck (Mar 20, 2009)

Eventually I think you would be able to add another X2 so it would be kind of like running 4X, except SLI/Crossfire always performs faster than one board with two GPUs because of the additional bandwidth provided by using two slots.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 20, 2009)

Jeez, so I have to consider performance or futureproofing.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 20, 2009)

Fleck said:


> Eventually I think you would be able to add another X2 so it would be kind of like running 4X, except SLI/Crossfire always performs faster than one board with two GPUs because of the additional bandwidth provided by using two slots.



That hasn't proven to be an issue with the X2, unless you try to put it in a slower than 16x PCIe 2.0 slot.

Besides, the X2 provides enough power that the possible advantage given by having 2 4870s in separate slots would be completely imperceptible, especially at his chosen resolution.


----------



## Fleck (Mar 20, 2009)

Wile E said:


> That hasn't proven to be an issue with the X2, unless you try to put it in a slower than 16x PCIe 2.0 slot.
> 
> Besides, the X2 provides enough power that the possible advantage given by having 2 4870s in separate slots would be completely imperceptible, especially at his chosen resolution.



Find me the benches, I just saw benches that showed an X2 having ~50-75% performance gain while the Crossfires had straight up 100% performance gain.  And most Crossfire boards run at 8x/8x or 16x/8x at best on Crossfire mode.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 20, 2009)

Fleck said:


> Find me the benches, I just saw benches that showed an X2 having ~50-75% performance gain while the Crossfires had straight up 100% performance gain.  And most Crossfire boards run at 8x/8x or 16x/8x at best on Crossfire mode.



His chosen board does 16 + 16 + 8 in 3 slots. My board does 16 + 16 with 2 slots.

And the 4870X2 and 2 4870s show no credible difference in a 16 + 16 board. In fact, the X2 is ahead in many tests.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...-radeon-hd-4870-x2-2gb-video-card-review.html

Are you thinking of the 3870X2? That only had a PCIe 1.1 bridge on it, causing a slight performance difference.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 20, 2009)

Uh huh... of course! I agree with you completely.

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


----------



## Wile E (Mar 20, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Uh huh... of course! I agree with you completely.
> 
> WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!



What?


----------



## Fleck (Mar 20, 2009)

Nvm, I was thinking of SLI, which it is true for SLI and nVidia cards with 2GPUs that SLI is better than 2 GPUs.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 20, 2009)

Wile E said:


> What?



I'm at a lost. So I should just go with the X2? I'm quite confused, been getting a lot of different replies so... Can I have a list of pros and cons of each?


----------



## Fleck (Mar 20, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> I'm at a lost. So I should just go with the X2? I'm quite confused, been getting a lot of different replies so... Can I have a list of pros and cons of each?



Getting an X2 will be as fast as Crossfire and later on when you want to expand you can add another X2 and Crossfire giving you 4 total GPUs.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 20, 2009)

Fleck said:


> Getting an X2 will be as fast as Crossfire and later on when you want to expand you can add another X2 and Crossfire giving you 4 total GPUs.



What he said. lol.

You can even go a step down from that, and just add another 4870 1GB for 3 gpus to save a little cash.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 20, 2009)

Wile E said:


> His chosen board does 16 + 16 + 8 in 3 slots. My board does 16 + 16 with 2 slots.
> And the 4870X2 and 2 4870s show no credible difference in a 16 + 16 board. In fact, the X2 is ahead in many tests.


What exactly does this mean? 16/16/8 in 3 slots as opposed to 16/16 in 2?

*Question 1*: Should I downgrade to the Antec 900? Honestly, I'm not a fan of full towers. (As long as it can hold 2 4870 x2s, and a large CPU cooler.)

*Question 2*: Is the Thermalright 120 Extreme necessary? I'm no longer seeking 4.0 on my i7, 3.8 is fine with me. I feel like I'm overpaying for the CPU cooler, $100 for the 120 compared to $50 for the 1284. (Might consider the 1283.)

*Question 3*: Could someone link me to a good 4870x2 2GB? I can't seem to find anything other than a Sapphire 4870x2. (On Newegg of course.)

*Question 4*: Is my PSU powerful enough?


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 20, 2009)

The 900 is fine. However, it will collect alot of dust, and you will not be able to fit a 240mm rad in it, if you decide to water cool. Be ready to use canned air once per week. The TRUE is not necessary for 3.8ghz, though you can easily clock to 4.0 if you chose the TRUE. Your PSU choice is very good. I had that exact PSU. It is beefy, and will certainly handle a 4870x2.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 20, 2009)

Alright, if I can touch 4.0 with the TRUE then I'll go with it.

Do both the 900 and the 1200 collect a lot of dust? Or is it just the 900? (Are they easily maintained?)


----------



## KBD (Mar 20, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> What brands should I be looking at for the 4870's?



No matter what brand you choose i'd go with a reference model and also a factory overclocked edition. Reference is a good choice because all the voltmods mods (soft and hard) work only on them and if you want to really push your card hard you will want to do that eventually. As for overclocked editions cards, some may disagree, but in my experience of owning 3 high-end GPUs in the past 2 years the 2 of the 3 cards were overclocked editions and were pretty good overcklockers while the 1 stock card wouldnt even clock up 5mhz. These kind of cards are cherry picked by the manufacturers and sold as overclocked editions preceseily because they overclock better. There are no gurantees, of course, but you have a much better chance of getting a good overclock out of an overclocked edition card. They usually cost a little more but i think its worth it. The only non-refence model 4870 i can recomend is the Asus Matrix. 

I still think that 2 4870 1GB is better vs 1 X2. Whats good about the single cards is that you can mount aftermarket cooling on them to keep them cooler and overclock higher, there is no such option for the 4870X2 aside from water. 



Bokteelo said:


> Do both the 900 and the 1200 collect a lot of dust? Or is it just the 900? (Are they easily maintained?)



In regards to the cases, first off i urge you to get a full tower if you want to be future proof, it will give you plenty of room for everything. Both Antec 900 & 1200 and Coolermaster HAF 932 are dusty but i still recomend the HAF as its a great case. Paulie had that case and he speaks from experience when he suggested, its awesome for a water cooling upgrade as you can potentially mount 3 240mm rads on the inside and 1 240 or 360 on the outside via radbox. I also recomend that if you get it make your own custom filters to block the dust.


----------



## phanbuey (Mar 20, 2009)

HAF 932 if you even think of watercooling... its a brutal case even though I dont agree with the aesthetics... 

But if you're gonna go for the TRUE then you shouldn't be thinking about water especially considering good water setups run $200+, so pick whatever case you would want to have for the next 5 years.


----------



## Fleck (Mar 20, 2009)

I thought the cases only collect dust if you don't set up the fans to build positive air pressure?


----------



## Binge (Mar 20, 2009)

To the OP.  If you want to have the full range of options while overclocking a 4870 you should look into the ASUS Matrix edition.  It is an impressive card.  Also the 4890 should be out in the foreseeable future.  The HAF 932 is a great option for air or water cooling, so I think that is really the winner here.  Correct water cooling for the i7 is more of a $300+ venture.  A Thermalright TRUE or a Prolimatech Megalems would be the best for AIR cooling and you can still get impressive OCs, but they can't be 24/7 overclocks.



phanbuey said:


> HAF 932 if you even think of watercooling... its a brutal case even though I dont agree with the aesthetics...
> 
> But if you're gonna go for the TRUE then you shouldn't be thinking about water especially considering good water setups run $200+, so pick whatever case you would want to have for the next 5 years.



+1 Watercooling is a huge investment, but it does the job.



Fleck said:


> I thought the cases only collect dust if you don't set up the fans to build positive air pressure?



Everything collects dust and really in the home it's mostly dead skin and dander.  Most likely you're to blame and you should clean your equipment as an apology.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 20, 2009)

@KBD: As for the CM HAF... is it possible to remove the red front fan and replace it with a blue LED fan? If so, that's going to me my case! 

What exactly are examples of factory overclocked editions? 

Fine, it's a little pricier but if it can OC better, it's mine! Can you link me to a well known, trustworthy site where I can get them? It's my first time ordering parts and etc, so right now the only sites I know of are Newegg and Sidewinder.

@phanbuey: Water cooling... well I'm already paying $107 for the TRUE, + $20 for extra case fans, + the 1200 is $30 more than the HAF. If you add all that up, it's almost $200. Why not go all the way and go H2O if it will lower my temperatures and keep my system safer? 

Can you or anybody recommend me a good WC setup? (I'm not going to jump on it, I'll still have to consider the price and difficulty to setup.)

@Binge: I can't seem to find the ASUS Matrix X2 or 1GB cards on Newegg. (X2 or 2 of them for CrossfireX.)


----------



## Binge (Mar 21, 2009)

They only come in 512MB.  That's not an issue.  1gb does not perform that much better than 512.  I'd rather have a 512mb matrix than a 1gb without the ability to control voltages.


----------



## kid41212003 (Mar 21, 2009)

So, did you have your final list? Maybe you should update the first post, just to let people know?


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 21, 2009)

kid41212003 said:


> So, did you have your final list? Maybe you should update the first post, just to let people know?



Sorry, I'm close, but not yet. 

I'm stuck between air and water now, but I have to factor in the price and difficulty of setup.

And I'll think about the ASUS Matrix edition, I need to do some research on 512 vs 1GB. (And I can't get an X2... so BOO!)


----------



## KBD (Mar 21, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> @KBD: As for the CM HAF... is it possible to remove the red front fan and replace it with a blue LED fan? If so, that's going to me my case!
> 
> What exactly are examples of factory overclocked editions?
> 
> Fine, it's a little pricier but if it can OC better, it's mine! Can you link me to a well known, trustworthy site where I can get them? It's my first time ordering parts and etc, so right now the only sites I know of are Newegg and Sidewinder.



To answer your fiest question yes, the 230mm fan on the CM HAF 932 can be replaced. Coolermaster finally released it in blue as well (though no green yet, arggh!) so you can pick one up from a place like frozencpu: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8...ue_LED_A23030-10CB-3DL-L1.html?tl=g36c331s857

An overclocked edition card is simply overclocked from the factory with a BIOS programmed with higher clocks. For example, my 4870 OC comes with clocks of 780/900 while a stock non-overclocked card runs at 750/900. There are various overclocked editions some with very high clocks. Newegg is a good place to get video cards, sometimes i buy from other places as well if the price is right. Asus Matrix would be good example of a card overclocked from factory. And as Binge and I said it's the best non-refence choice.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 21, 2009)

Jeez... So I sacrifice the Antec 1200 for the HAF and replace the LED fan. They cost pretty much the same BUT the HAF offers water cooling potential.

I'm not sure when I'll be going H2O... but I do want to.

And as for the OCed edition, I think I've seen a few at 780MHz. I'll look around.

Edit: Okay! I've decided to go with air cooling using the Thermalright TRUE. And I'm sticking with the Antec 1200. I'll figure out how to shove some tubes in there if I need water cooling. The most important thing I want to know as of now: Can I turn off the blue lights on the fan?


----------



## Wile E (Mar 21, 2009)

Binge said:


> They only come in 512MB.  That's not an issue.  1gb does not perform that much better than 512.  I'd rather have a 512mb matrix than a 1gb without the ability to control voltages.



It's an issue for those that want longevity. 1GB is far better for the long term. Hell, in games like GTA4, the 512 is already useless.

And there's voltage control on all reference 4870/4870X2's, as long as they are using the Voltera regulators.



KBD said:


> *I still think that 2 4870 1GB is better vs 1 X2. Whats good about the single cards is that you can mount aftermarket cooling on them to keep them cooler and overclock higher, there is no such option for the 4870X2 aside from water. *



http://www.artic-cooling.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2_&mID=244

@Bokteelo - Just go ahead and stick with air for now, while you are still learning the nuances of overclocking. Go water at a later date when you are a little more familiar and comfortable with everything. I also highly recommend you stick with a full tower case. Once the upgrade bug bites, a mid tower will be overstuffed before you know it, and you'll have to upgrade anyway.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 21, 2009)

Thanks Wile E. I'm basically finished picking out the parts, down to the one item, the DVD drive! 

One more question! Can the lights on the case fans be turned off?


----------



## Wile E (Mar 21, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Thanks Wile E. I'm basically finished picking out the parts, down to the one item, the DVD drive!
> 
> One more question! Can the lights on the case fans be turned off?



Not usually. I got rid of the LED fan that came in my case, because it became far too annoying.

EDIT: Did you post the final parts list yet?


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 21, 2009)

Not yet, I'll get to that shortly. How much are fan replacements? (I've got 7... and I want to replace them with quiet functional fans if I do decide to replace them.)







Can my PSU handle 2 4870 X2 cards if I add another one in the future? And can I add a SINGLE 4870 1GB from a different brand + clock speed onto it in the future?


----------



## Wile E (Mar 21, 2009)

Very solid build. You sure you don't want to step to a 21.5 Samsung monitor that does 1920x1080 resolution instead? Same price: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001308


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 21, 2009)

Ooh, 1080P! (Don't know what that is, but I know it's good!) And it supports 1920x1080... I'll think about it!

(I'm more into the versatility of the stand on the monitor I chose, because I tend to watch videos from my bed.)


----------



## Wile E (Mar 21, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Ooh, 1080P! (Don't know what that is, but I know it's good!) And it supports 1920x1080... I'll think about it!
> 
> (I'm more into the versatility of the stand on the monitor I chose, because I tend to watch videos from my bed.)



1080p just means it has 1080 lines of horizontal resolution. The P means it's progressive scan. All lcds are progressive anyway.

1080p is also the resolution used in BluRay discs.

Which leads me to my next thought, why not grab at least a Blu Ray reader for it, that way you can watch some nice HD movies on it with the nice 1080p monitor. lol. Hell the readers are down to $80: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106273


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 21, 2009)

I did consider a BluRay DVD drive+burner combo. Actually, I might go for it. (Not the one you linked me to though, another LG or Samsung one. I'll find it and post it.)

Here! http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136133 (This thing can play regular CDs/DVDs too right? Like, if I shove a CD-ROM in there with software.)

Still thinking about the monitor though, I think the lovely stand on mine sold me!

Do I HAVE to get the 1080P for optimum results? (I think your monitor is actually wider than mine, I looked at the specs, maybe I mixed them up.)

Shit I think your monitor IS wider than mine!

21.5'' - 20.4'' x 15.4'' x 8.2''
22'' - 19.9'' x 14.78'' x 7.87''

But the stand! Oh the stand! =[ If only your 21.5'' had a more flexible stand... ugh I'm still thinking.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 21, 2009)

The monitor you are considering doesn't do true HD. The image would have to be down-scaled.

You can take a browse thru these to see if there's something you like. These are all the 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 monitors on Newegg. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...eValue=1099:9240&PropertyCodeValue=1099:17843 These all do 1080p. The 1920x1200 monitors would just have a little black bar at the top and bottom while watching something that's in 1080p. It doesn't have to scale the picture at all, tho.

As for fans, only 5 would need replaced if you wanted to rid yourself of leds. My favorite case fans I've tried so far are my Scythe S-Flex fans. Little pricey for a fan tho. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2108 1372726538 1372826143&name=Fluid Dynamic


----------



## JrRacinFan (Mar 21, 2009)

Wile E said:


> The monitor you are considering doesn't do true HD. The image would have to be down-scaled.



Although in theory image quality would be the same ..... 

Either way, nice build Bokteelo. I have a feeling its going to turn out very very nice. Little too powerful for my tastes but it will be an amazing rig!


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 21, 2009)

Do DVD players read CDs? Such as software CDs?

@JrRacinFan - Thanks a lot buddy! It's going to last me 5 years, and I have 1 shot at building this thing so... why not go all out? ^_^


----------



## Wile E (Mar 21, 2009)

JrRacinFan said:


> Although in theory image quality would be the same .....
> 
> Either way, nice build Bokteelo. I have a feeling its going to turn out very very nice. Little too powerful for my tastes but it will be an amazing rig!



No, the quality is rarely the same. But I'm picky, too. I notice scaling artifacts.





Bokteelo said:


> Do DVD players read CDs? Such as software CDs?
> 
> @JrRacinFan - Thanks a lot buddy! It's going to last me 5 years, and I have 1 shot at building this thing so... why not go all out? ^_^


Yeah, dvd burners read (and write) CDs


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 21, 2009)

Oh, forgot to thank you Wile E, I'm looking through the LCDs right now.



Wile E said:


> As for fans, only 5 would need replaced if you wanted to rid yourself of leds. My favorite case fans I've tried so far are my Scythe S-Flex fans. Little pricey for a fan tho. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2108 1372726538 1372826143&name=Fluid Dynamic



It'll actually be 7 because I ordered 2 more fans. Being a full tower, it should fit right?


----------



## KBD (Mar 21, 2009)

Wile E said:


> http://www.artic-cooling.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2_&mID=244



Wow, didn't know this. This is freaking great, finally an X2 air cooler!!!!!!!!



Bokteelo said:


> It'll actually be 7 because I ordered 2 more fans. Being a full tower, it should fit right?



Not sure why you want to replace the fans, they are blue LED like you wanted and Antec Tricool are actually very nice fans with 3 speed fan control.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 22, 2009)

Okay, maybe I shouldn't do WCing. I kept my air setup, and am now looking for a better motherboard to OC with. Might get lucky and pull 4.0 on air, if a better mobo can help me get there then why not? Looking to order before Tuesday so I can get the parts by Friday and spent the rest of the night + Saturday/Sunday building it. 

I've got a few mobos to choose from:

ASUS P6T Deluxe V2
ASUS P6T Deluxe/OC Palm
Gigabyte UD4P/UD5
Foxxconn BloodRage
DFI

Edit2: It's Monday!! I want to order by tomorrow and start running that baby ASAP!
Edit3: Still Monday, and I've chosen the P6T Deluxe. If I don't see any replies by the end of tomorrow afternoon, I'm placing the order.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 23, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Okay, maybe I shouldn't do WCing. I kept my air setup, and am now looking for a better motherboard to OC with. Might get lucky and pull 4.0 on air, if a better mobo can help me get there then why not? Looking to order before Tuesday so I can get the parts by Friday and spent the rest of the night + Saturday/Sunday building it.
> 
> I've got a few mobos to choose from:
> 
> ...


Don't get the P6T. Asus screwed the pooch on the BIOS. I'd get the Gigabyte, just because it has a nice and usable slot layout. Second choice would be DFI, then Foxconn.


----------



## KBD (Mar 24, 2009)

Wile E said:


> Don't get the P6T. Asus screwed the pooch on the BIOS. I'd get the Gigabyte, just because it has a nice and usable slot layout. Second choice would be DFI, then Foxconn.



i second what Wile said, dont get any of the P6T series boards, folks that owned them were not happy. Gigabyte, DFI, Foxconn Bloodrage are good choices. Though DFI's BIOS may be intimidating for a novice overclocker. I had to do a lot of reasearch just to figure out what do options on my DFI X48 board mean so if you are not prepared to commit a lot of time for reasearch/tweaking i'd hold off on DFI for now, but if you are willing to learn go for it.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 24, 2009)

Phew, just woke up and was going to order if there weren't any replies.

You both recommend Gigabyte, but which one? The UD4P or the UD5?

Edit: I decided to switch out my 6GB Crucial RAM for 6GB of OCZ Platinum. Was that a smart thing to do or should I revert back to the Crucial. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148246
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227381

And I'm thinking about adding another fan to my Thermalright Ultra for a push/pull effect. If that's the case, I'm going to be adding 4 more 120mm fans to my computer.

x1 Side fan
x2 CPU Cooler fans
x1 Internal fan for either the GPU or CPU (supported by my Antec 1200)

If that's the case, I'm going to add a fan controller to monitor my temps and control fan speeds.
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/sckamaace5ba.html

I can't pick out 2 fans for my TRUE! Is the push supposed to be faster than the pull? Or vice-versa? http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/120mmfans.html


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 24, 2009)

The IC's in the Crucials are better. They are D9's, and will clock quite high. I've had the OCZ Plats, and have sold them. They seem to have very little overclocking headroom. If it's the look of the heatspreaders on the OCZ heatspreader that pulls you, don't let it. Just get yourself a set of Enzotech or Vantec heatspreaders. They are both very effective and look as good as the OCZs.

As far as the board goes, I'd go with the DFI, Blood Rage or a Giga UD4. I have a DFI x58, and it is solid. I also have a Blood Rage that should be coming back from RMA later this week. Probably the best looking board I've ever seen, though I've yet to be able to play with it. My experience with Gigabyte has been all about stability. They've never had a spectacular bios, and the boards just look decent. However, I've found the 3 Gigabyte boards I've owned to be the most stable boards from the very first boot. There is something to be said for that. 

If you are interested in the HAF, I'm selling mine. I'm sticking to an open tech station from now on. It's just easier considering how often I switch out components. It you want it (minus the top fan) it's yours for $50 plus shipping. It's a great case. 

Coolers...you should really check out sneekypeetes FS thread. He is selling some bleeding edge core i7 coolers that have only been used for testing and review. The Noctua he is selling probably comes very close to the TRUE's performance...just a thought.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 24, 2009)

That HAF is a really tempting deal, and it can save me a huge chunk of money. I'll give you an answer by tonight.

I'll stick with the Crucial D9's w/ Vantec Iceberg heatspreaders.

Checking out sneekypeetes FS thread now, will come back with an edit.

I've done a lot of Googling, and it seems to me as if the TRUE will give better performance. (Especially when I have 2 fans mounted on it for a push/pull effect.

As for noise, I don't care. The computer will be in another room strictly for gaming, the HP Pavilion a1540n will stay in my room for web browsing, videos, and etc.


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 24, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> That HAF is a really tempting deal, and it can save me a huge chunk of money. I'll give you an answer by tonight.
> 
> I'll stick with the Crucial D9's w/ Vantec Iceberg heatspreaders.
> 
> Checking out sneekypeetes FS thread now, will come back with an edit.



Yeah, I'm guessing it will be about $85-$90 or so shipped.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 24, 2009)

Paulieg what's the HAF going to cost if I buy a 230mm fan for the top? The HAF does appeal to me because it has 6 external 5.25'' drive bays for just about everything I can think of adding. (I only need 3 right now though, but it would be a bonus.)
The only con about the HAF is the look, but at your price it's hard to not want it. Like stated, I will give you an answer by tonight.

Going to get 4 http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/scsf75cfms12.html fans. Two for the case, 2 for the CPU. Getting a fan controller to monitor temps/speed.


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 25, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Paulieg what's the HAF going to cost if I buy a 230mm fan for the top? The HAF does appeal to me because it has 6 external 5.25'' drive bays for just about everything I can think of adding. (I only need 3 right now though, but it would be a bonus.)
> The only con about the HAF is the look, but at your price it's hard to not want it. Like stated, I will give you an answer by tonight.
> 
> Going to get 4 http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/scsf75cfms12.html fans. Two for the case, 2 for the CPU. Getting a fan controller to monitor temps/speed.



I think I'll go ahead and include the fan for $97 shipped. LMK.


----------



## ghost28 (Mar 25, 2009)

Dude go with the HAF...thats a sweet deal Paulieg is offering....i have the HAF and i love it...i think for air its great with all the flow it ofers and for water there is soo much room....trust me the looks will grow on you....


----------



## KBD (Mar 26, 2009)

Agreed, thats a sick deal. I'm getting my own HAF 932 soon as well, been actually planning to for a few months but had some cash problems. Really a perfect case for both air and water. As i said above, if you get it dont forget to make your own custom filters as it gets quite dusty i hear.


----------

