# Epic Games Gives Mesmerizing Look at Unreal Engine 5 Running Real Time on PlayStation 5



## Raevenlord (May 13, 2020)

Epic Games has just released a trailer for version 5 of their industry/acclaimed Unreal Engine. Dubbed "Lumen in the Land of Nanite", the demo they've shared is nothing short of mindblowing when it comes to the amount of environment and character detail. Unreal Engine 5 will feature a new geometry processing engine Epic is calling Nanite, which the company promises will virtually eliminate polygon budgets for developers, with automatic stream and scaling, thus eliminating the need to develop LOD levels for particular assets. Another addition, and an as impressive one, is the Lumen global illumination engine, which will save developers the need to manually bake lightmaps accounting for every little change in a scene's lighting - the global illumination system makes these changes in lighting conditions as seamless and integrated as they can be. This among other features already introduced with version 4.25 such as Niagara VFX and Chaos destruction systems.

Unreal Engine 5 is pegged for an early 2021 release; Epic Games has already announced they will be porting their popular Fortnite videogame into the engine, which makes sense, considering it's being particularly optimized for PC and next-generation consoles. These will become the backbone of games development - and an important source of Epic's Fortnite revenue stream. Take a look at the trailer after the break - and remember this was all running real-time in a PlayStation 5 console.



 

 

 

 














> This demo previews two of the new core technologies that will debut in Unreal Engine 5:
> *Nanite* virtualized micropolygon geometry frees artists to create as much geometric detail as the eye can see. Nanite virtualized geometry means that film-quality source art comprising hundreds of millions or billions of polygons can be imported directly into Unreal Engine—anything from ZBrush sculpts to photogrammetry scans to CAD data—and it just works. Nanite geometry is streamed and scaled in real time so there are no more polygon count budgets, polygon memory budgets, or draw count budgets; there is no need to bake details to normal maps or manually author LODs; and there is no loss in quality.





 

 



> *Lumen* is a fully dynamic global illumination solution that immediately reacts to scene and light changes. The system renders diffuse interreflection with infinite bounces and indirect specular reflections in huge, detailed environments, at scales ranging from kilometers to millimeters. Artists and designers can create more dynamic scenes using Lumen, for example, changing the sun angle for time of day, turning on a flashlight, or blowing a hole in the ceiling, and indirect lighting will adapt accordingly. Lumen erases the need to wait for lightmap bakes to finish and to author light map UVs—a huge time savings when an artist can move a light inside the Unreal Editor and lighting looks the same as when the game is run on console.





 



> Numerous teams and technologies have come together to enable this leap in quality. To build large scenes with Nanite geometry technology, the team made heavy use of the Quixel Megascans library, which provides film-quality objects up to hundreds of millions of polygons. To support vastly larger and more detailed scenes than previous generations, PlayStation 5 provides a dramatic increase in storage bandwidth.
> 
> The demo also showcases existing engine systems such as Chaos physics and destruction, Niagara VFX, convolution reverb, and ambisonics rendering.



*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## Vayra86 (May 13, 2020)

G
T
F
O

The first engine that looks like actual CGI. Well done. Now get it in game.


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## ARF (May 13, 2020)

> According to the Epic founder, this is actually the realization of a concept that stretches way back to decades ago.
> 
> 
> > You know, the philosophy behind it goes back to the 1980s with the idea of REYES: Render Everything Your Eye Sees. *It's a funny acronym which means that given essentially infinite detail available*, it's the engine's job to determine exactly what pixels need to be drawn in order to display it. It doesn't mean drawing all 10 billion polygons every frame because some of them are much, much smaller than the pixel. It means being able to render and an approximation of it which misses none of the detail that you're able to perceive and once you get to that point, you're done with geometry. There's nothing more you can do. And if you rendered more polygons, you wouldn't notice it because they just contribute infinitesimally to each pixel on the screen.











						Unreal Engine 5 Demo Is Rendering at 1440P Most of the Time on PS5; RTX 2070 Super Could Run It at 'Pretty Good Performance'
					

Epic shared a lot of information on the stunning Unreal Engine 5 demo, such as the rendering resolution on PS5 and how well would PC run it.




					wccftech.com
				












						Unreal Engine 5 Demoed on PlayStation 5, Amazing New Lighting and Modeling Tech Shown
					

Get a tantalizing taste of what the PlayStation 5 and Unreal Engine 5 is capable of in this incredible next-gen graphical showcase!




					wccftech.com


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## Lionheart (May 13, 2020)

68% Don't think this is next gen, 34 people have voted, everyone's entitled to their opinion & here's mine.... Are you f..king BLIND?


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## xrobwx71 (May 13, 2020)

Wow, beautiful. I can't wait to see it on my machine.


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## Cranky5150 (May 13, 2020)

Pretty F'in impressive TBH....


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## sounreal (May 13, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> G
> T
> F
> O
> ...


Im with you put it in a game.


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## CrAsHnBuRnXp (May 13, 2020)

This looks...unreal


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## dyonoctis (May 13, 2020)

I wonder what the 68% are actually expecting from next gen ? I mean okay, the star wars demo is insane, but it didn't showed a huge and detailed environement.


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## Ferrum Master (May 13, 2020)

No one said next gen should look like night and day. 

It is next generation by any means.


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## DrCR (May 13, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> The first engine that looks like actual CGI. Well done. Now get it in game.


My concern would be to have this in game would require too great of an investment in art assets. 

Re the below pic for example, I simultaneously thought how awesome it would be to encounter this in game -- particularly if the sound work was just as good to provide a proper, in-person sort of feel -- but then also considered how perhaps unrealistic it would be to expect this level of craftsmanship throughout the game.





It's interesting to me how the more realistic human depictions are in game, the more ... meh they feel to me rather than being some abstract, in game, larger-than-life character.

This game character, for example, feels like the kind of girl I'd sit next to in uni for some poli sci elective or some such.


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## _Flare (May 13, 2020)

finally the first baking-less gameengine, this is honorably really BIG
and this paradigm-change shows that UE4 will not be updated forever as the last unreal engine, like propagated since its launch
there will always be an even cleverer approach, thats evolutionary progress

so the baking an faking will go away and the pure material and creation work stays, how it should´ve been from the beginning, decades ago, but the machines weren´t stong enough... but now it becomes reality


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## ARF (May 13, 2020)

Lionheart said:


> 68% Don't think this is next gen, 34 people have voted, everyone's entitled to their opinion & here's mine.... Are you f..king BLIND?



Maybe they don't realise that this is a REVOLUTION in PC graphics  



> This demo previews two of the new core technologies that will debut in Unreal Engine 5:
> *Nanite* virtualized micropolygon geometry frees artists to create as much geometric detail as the eye can see. Nanite virtualized geometry means that film-quality source art comprising hundreds of millions or billions of polygons can be imported directly into Unreal Engine—anything from ZBrush sculpts to photogrammetry scans to CAD data—and it just works. Nanite geometry is streamed and scaled in real time so there are no more polygon count budgets, polygon memory budgets, or draw count budgets; there is no need to bake details to normal maps or manually author LODs; and there is no loss in quality.



This must be the same technology as by Euclideon Holographics


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## 1d10t (May 13, 2020)

We already had "this" like years, its called cut-scene or FMV.


/s


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 13, 2020)

ARF said:


> Maybe they don't realise that this is a REVOLUTION in PC graphics
> 
> 
> 
> This must be the same technology as by Euclideon Holographics


Not sure,. Euclidean use voxels ,I'm sure they would have references to voxels if it was, possibly a generational evolution of tesselation.

Anyone else get a savage next generation Lara croft adventure vibe, I look forward to it.


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## Vya Domus (May 13, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> The first engine that looks like actual CGI. Well done. Now get it in game.



Northlight from Remedy looked quite convincingly CGI back in 2016.


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## MxPhenom 216 (May 13, 2020)

So no mention of Ray tracing? Is that DOA tech now then?


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## ARF (May 13, 2020)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> So no mention of Ray tracing? Is that DOA tech now then?




AMD works with "select lighting effects" as in
*



			Lumen
		
Click to expand...

*


> is a fully dynamic global illumination solution that immediately reacts to scene and light changes. The system renders diffuse interreflection with infinite bounces and indirect specular reflections in huge, detailed environments, at scales ranging from kilometers to millimeters. Artists and designers can create more dynamic scenes using Lumen, for example, changing the sun angle for time of day, turning on a flashlight, or blowing a hole in the ceiling, and indirect lighting will adapt accordingly. Lumen erases the need to wait for lightmap bakes to finish and to author light map UVs—a huge time savings when an artist can move a light inside the Unreal Editor and lighting looks the same as when the game is run on console.


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## Punkenjoy (May 13, 2020)

Next Gen console will have Ray-Tracing capability but dev will need to use it with parcimony to not kill the performance. 

the amount of ray and rebound that current (and next gen console) hardware can launch is still very limited. 

So don't expect full ray-traced with this gen. But in few years, performances will probably be good enough to leverage it a bit more. It's the future so it's not dead on arrival, it's just that it require a huge amount of calculation. 

Also there are many others things that will increase graphic fidelity and this demo demonstrate it. Without ray-tracing, they are able to get incredible visual quality. Can't wait to see this in actual video games. The *Nanite* virtualized micropolygon geometry is will help immensely to increase visual fidelity because even with ray-tracing, polygons remain the foundation of 3d. Light come after and light depend on the polygons to render properly.


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## Decryptor009 (May 13, 2020)

I am not really optimistic that visuals will get much better now if at all, this is where we truly hit walls.

Consoles are on par with computers too.


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## ARF (May 13, 2020)

Punkenjoy said:


> Next Gen console will have Ray-Tracing capability but dev will need to use it with parcimony to not kill the performance.
> 
> the amount of ray and rebound that current (and next gen console) hardware can launch is still very limited.
> 
> ...




I think that future graphics cards will evolve around their ray-tracing performance since all cards starting from RDNA2 will be able to do the "*Nanite* virtualized micropolygon geometry" or so small "triangles" so that we call it infinite detail.


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## medi01 (May 13, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> G
> T
> F
> O
> ...








somewhere in a milky way, about a decade ago and ON PLAYSTATION 3, yeah, they are this shameless:


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## Decryptor009 (May 13, 2020)

medi01 said:


> somewhere in a milky way, about a decade ago and ON PLAYSTATION 3, yeah, they are this shameless:


This was on GTX 580 not PS3. Get your facts right.






						Unreal Engine 3: Official DX11 Samaritan Demo | Geeks3D
					

Unreal Engine 3: Official DX11 Samaritan Demo




					www.geeks3d.com


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## ARF (May 13, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> I am not really optimistic that visuals will get much better now if at all, this is where we truly hit walls.
> 
> Consoles are on par with computers too.




How is a console on par with a 64-core Threadripper or a 16-core Ryzen, and Radeon RX 5700 XT, or future Navi 21 that is as large as 505 sq. mm ?


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## MxPhenom 216 (May 13, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> I am not really optimistic that visuals will get much better now if at all, this is where we truly hit walls.
> *
> Consoles are on par with computers too*.



LOL no, no they are not.


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## CrAsHnBuRnXp (May 13, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> Consoles are on par with computers too.


If that was the case, they wouldnt be locked at 30 FPS, have outdated hardware, and they would have SSD's built into them. And im not including the series x in that statement as it's not out yet.


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## bizzmeister (May 13, 2020)

Shit looks incredible ( as it always does ) but we'll wait for the ACTUAL in game stuff we'll be seeing soon enough.


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## ARF (May 13, 2020)

The thing in which consoles will probably exceed the computers performance is the SSD speed.













						Unreal Engine 5 Demo Is Rendering at 1440P Most of the Time on PS5; RTX 2070 Super Could Run It at 'Pretty Good Performance'
					

Epic shared a lot of information on the stunning Unreal Engine 5 demo, such as the rendering resolution on PS5 and how well would PC run it.




					wccftech.com


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## PowerPC (May 13, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> I am not really optimistic that visuals will get much better now if at all, this is where we truly hit walls.


What do you mean by visuals...? There's a lot more to visuals than just detailed models, textures and lighting. There's room in game physics for the next 30 years at least, which will improve how the game visually looks and realism immensely.. All you see in most games are just solid blocks that you can't interact with without writing special code for every little interaction. This is going to be the next big thing and in the next years this will lead to games looking so much more realistic than this tech demo.

Just like the physics in this game improve the visuals


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## Makaveli (May 13, 2020)

Its a tech demo.

Been doing this long enough that I will wait take to see an actual shipping product first before blowing my load like most are because oo shiney lol.



ARF said:


> The thing in which consoles will probably exceed the computers performance is the SSD speed.
> 
> View attachment 155084
> 
> ...



That will be very short lived as usual PC's are a moving target and console specs are the same for years until the next model in 5+ years time we have seen this before.

Nvme drive in my current system already does 5000Mb/sec reads and the PS5 drive is suppose to do about 5500Mb/sec.

The next revision of the SSD I have in my PC coming out towards the End of the Year will do 7000Mb/sec.


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## Decryptor009 (May 13, 2020)

CrAsHnBuRnXp said:


> If that was the case, they wouldnt be locked at 30 FPS, have outdated hardware, and they would have SSD's built into them. And im not including the series x in that statement as it's not out yet.


Who said they are locked at 30? what is outdated about these consoles? the GPU hardware is not even in the desktop space.



PowerPC said:


> What do you mean by visuals...? There's a lot more to visuals than just detailed models, textures and lighting. There's room in game physics for the next 30 years at least, which will improve how the game visually looks and realism immensely.. All you see in most games are just solid blocks that you can't interact with without writing special code for every little interaction. This is going to be the next big thing and in the next years this will lead to games looking so much more realistic than this tech demo.
> 
> Just like the physics in this game improve the visuals


That barely exists on PC too.



MxPhenom 216 said:


> LOL no, no they are not.


These ones are, welcome to reality.
Unless you are just talking for the 0.001% who can buy 2080 Super and Ti?



ARF said:


> How is a console on par with a 64-core Threadripper or a 16-core Ryzen, and Radeon RX 5700 XT, or future Navi 21 that is as large as 505 sq. mm ?


5700-XT is not as good as RDNA2.

Threadripper is shit for gaming.


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## Minus Infinity (May 14, 2020)

Lionheart said:


> 68% Don't think this is next gen, 34 people have voted, everyone's entitled to their opinion & here's mine.... Are you f..king BLIND?



I agree, what a sorry bunch still playing their crap low poly 1080p games. Secretly will be the first to line up for the next gen while slamming it online continually.


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## rvalencia (May 14, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> Who said they are locked at 30? what is outdated about these consoles? the GPU hardware is not even in the desktop space.
> 
> 
> That barely exists on PC too.
> ...


Zen 2 Threadripper is fine with gaming.  https://www.techspot.com/review/1980-amd-threadripper-3990x/


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## droopyRO (May 14, 2020)

It looks good. It won't look as good on most gaming PCs. But i kind of lost hope to see a similar upgrade to gameplay, game physics and story.


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## Houd.ini (May 14, 2020)

Makaveli said:


> That will be very short lived as usual PC's are a moving target and console specs are the same for years until the next model in 5+ years time we have seen this before.
> 
> Nvme drive in my current system already does 5000Mb/sec reads and the PS5 drive is suppose to do about 5500Mb/sec.
> 
> The next revision of the SSD I have in my PC coming out towards the End of the Year will do 7000Mb/sec.


What do you think would happen if they started making PC games as if everyone had 5000 Mb/s drives? At least for consoles, they will know absolutely everyone will have a drive the same speed, and can code for and exploit that.


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## MxPhenom 216 (May 14, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> Who said they are locked at 30? what is outdated about these consoles? the GPU hardware is not even in the desktop space.
> 
> 
> That barely exists on PC too.
> ...


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## Makaveli (May 14, 2020)

Houd.ini said:


> What do you think would happen if they started making PC games as if everyone had 5000 Mb/s drives? At least for consoles, they will know absolutely everyone will have a drive the same speed, and can code for and exploit that.



I believe in this coming generation of consoles we will see plenty multi platform games and cross play games. So you may see some of those games running better on a PC with a Fast Nmve drive.

Your point about coding to a standard platform is correct but slowly becoming less of an issue. All of those incoming games will be optimized for AMD Cpu's and Gpu's.


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## Decryptor009 (May 14, 2020)

bizzmeister said:


> Shit looks incredible ( as it always does ) but we'll wait for the ACTUAL in game stuff we'll be seeing soon enough.





MxPhenom 216 said:


>


Except it's not, you seem to like delusional thinking...

If you are in the 0.001% who own a 2080Ti you are likely to be fine, but for anyoen else, these consoles are on par.



rvalencia said:


> Zen 2 Threadripper is fine with gaming.  https://www.techspot.com/review/1980-amd-threadripper-3990x/


Yes if you are an idiot that bought it for gaming, i never said it could not game, it is just objectively shit for that task and a waste of silicon.


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## Totally (May 14, 2020)

dyonoctis said:


> I wonder what the 68% are actually expecting from next gen ? I mean okay, the star wars demo is insane, but it didn't showed a huge and detailed environement.



Star wars demo was actually pretty lame, just a bunch shiny stuff and refelections, but these U5 demo are just glorious.


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## Vya Domus (May 14, 2020)

Houd.ini said:


> What do you think would happen if they started making PC games as if everyone had 5000 Mb/s drives? At least for consoles, they will know absolutely everyone will have a drive the same speed, and can code for and exploit that.



Sony and MS are obliviously tying to oversell the importance of really high speed SSDs. They are useful no doubt but the bulk of why they're so much better comes from the reduced latency not crazy high transfer rates and you can get that whether you're using a 600 mb/s SATA3 SSD or a 6 gb/s PCIe one.

I can't imagine why you'll need to saturate the bandwidth of those SSDs every single frame update or anything like that, despite what they suggest scenes remain static for a pretty long time.


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## rvalencia (May 14, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> Yes if you are an idiot that bought it for gaming, i never said it could not game, it is just objectively shit for that task and a waste of silicon.


Consumers can spend their own money within the law. Who are you to dictate another person's spending habits?


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## InVasMani (May 14, 2020)

ARF said:


> How is a console on par with a 64-core Threadripper or a 16-core Ryzen, and Radeon RX 5700 XT, or future Navi 21 that is as large as 505 sq. mm ?


 A terrible console port in years past would be the answer to this in general. Far as the PS5 goes however apparently the storage in it is really fast and high end, but largely hype at the same time because NVMe for PCIe 4.0 is quite fast as well and I'm sure the PS5 is utilizing it being Ryzen based. Really anything PCIE 4.0 based should be capable of the same with the right storage setup. Additionally you've got a ramdisk and primo cache and like StoreMi that should exceed those levels. I think part of this is also to do with the fact AMD's GPU's are capable of HBCC and with these new storage systems that's a really big deal apparently.


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## Hyderz (May 14, 2020)

Impressive showcase, but this is just the surface of what the engine is capable of... 
its an environment with a single character, some light source and there is environment creatures.
so far from the video they show case how pretty light source can be and how beautiful the 8k environment textures are.
I think the latest pc spec can run this at 60 fps no problem.. 

but they didnt show for example like the character walking through a market where there is multiple characters around
tons of things to render for example, stalls, food, shadows, ai walking around in the back.
this will definitely require more cpu/gpu to run


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## Pumper (May 14, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> If you are in the 0.001% who own a 2080Ti you are likely to be fine, but for anyoen else, these consoles are on par.



Why do you keep talking about 2080Tis when Epic already said that a 2070S runs the demo with "Pretty Good Performance".

And what are you talking about when you say that "these consoles are on par"? They are not even out yet, and if the rumors of RTX3000 are true, by the time they are released a 3060 will beat them at everything.


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## Vya Domus (May 14, 2020)

Pumper said:


> the rumors of RTX3000 are true, by the time they are released a 3060 will beat them at everything.



Don't hold you're breath. A 2070 for instance was barely any faster than a OC'd 1080 and no where near a Titan Xp and before that a 1070 was as fast as the previous Titan, the trend is in favor for consoles being on par for at least one more generation.

People thinking that a hypothetical RTX 3060 is going to be as fast as a current colossal 750 mm^2 GPU are awfully optimistic to say the least.


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## ratirt (May 14, 2020)

I see people are comparing a console to a PC. Apples and oranges again. You don't compare these two with each other, even though the consoles have common computer parts. It's like comparing a monster truck to a pickup, which one is better.
Anyway.
The engine is nice and it looks great. Wonder if that is how the game will look or is it just for the marketing. either way the quality of the image is outstanding and lightning is great. if it runs at 60 FPS and looks like this, you may as well skip PC and move to console. At least, there will be less argues about graphics card issues etc.


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## Pumper (May 14, 2020)

ratirt said:


> if it runs at 60 FPS and looks like this, you may as well skip PC and move to console. At least, there will be less argues about graphics card issues etc.



The demo was 1440p ("most of the time", meaning it went lower at some points) 30fps.


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## Vya Domus (May 14, 2020)

Pumper said:


> The demo was 1440p ("most of the time", meaning it went lower at some points) 30fps.



Or higher ?


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## ratirt (May 14, 2020)

Pumper said:


> The demo was 1440p ("most of the time", meaning it went lower at some points) 30fps.


And how do you know that it dropped below 60FPS (to 30FPS) or what was the actual FPS in that demo? I don't see any number given for the FPS and what was the actual FPS in that demo but if you have a concrete info about this please share. and please, don't tell me it's because you think it dropped below 60 or that is your opinion. 1440p most of the time? That means what? it was 1080p some other time or 720p or maybe it went up to 4k at some point?


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## mak1skav (May 14, 2020)

Overall it looks amazing but I have to admit that the scene with the water still doesn't look so impressive to me. Also I think when I look closer, in some scenes the movements of the character look a little "plastic" and not so realistic. The effects of the light and the texture quality of the enviroment looks quite impressive in my opinion.


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## Pumper (May 14, 2020)

ratirt said:


> And how do you know that it dropped below 60FPS (to 30FPS) or what was the actual FPS in that demo?



Because Epic said so?
It did not drop "below 60fps", it was locked at 30 with dynamic resolution to keep it stable.


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## ratirt (May 14, 2020)

Pumper said:


> Because Epic said so?
> It did not drop "below 60fps", it was locked at 30 with dynamic resolution to keep it stable.


Well I must have missed that info somehow.


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## Vayra86 (May 14, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> Except it's not, you seem to like delusional thinking...
> 
> If you are in the 0.001% who own a 2080Ti you are likely to be fine, but for anyoen else, these consoles are on par.
> 
> ...



The consoles will offer high end performance by the time they are released. This is good. But its much more than 0.001% that will be having a faster PC. 3-5% would be more accurate.
Did you think Navi 21 and/or RDNA2 in the new consoles will be approaching 2080ti performance? And even if so, did you think the ceiling would remain at that?
As for TR... it* rivals a* *9900K *in gaming and people do use PCs for more than just gaming, after all, if they didn't, they'd buy that PS5 

The market is diverse...

I get it, you're excited and this is a returning thing with a new console gen. The hype train must get rolling and this demo succeeds at that. But the real message in my first post here was... 'Get it in game'.

Seeing is believing, until then, these are all empty promises.



ratirt said:


> And how do you know that it dropped below 60FPS (to 30FPS) or what was the actual FPS in that demo? I don't see any number given for the FPS and what was the actual FPS in that demo but if you have a concrete info about this please share. and please, don't tell me it's because you think it dropped below 60 or that is your opinion. 1440p most of the time? That means what? it was 1080p some other time or 720p or maybe it went up to 4k at some point?



Demo was very clearly 30FPS. But maybe you need a high refresh panel to see that, I don't know, but if I view 30 FPS content on a 120hz panel, its like someone is clicking through powerpoint very quickly


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## ratirt (May 14, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> Demo was very clearly 30FPS.


I watched it a bit on a phone but I focused on the details and lightning. Wonder what FPS the video was recorded at.


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## Vayra86 (May 14, 2020)

ratirt said:


> I watched it a bit on a phone but I focused on the details and lightning. Wonder what FPS the video was recorded at.



60 or there is some interpolation going on. You can see this when the scenes move. It looks almost like 60 to the untrained eye.



DrCR said:


> My concern would be to have this in game would require too great of an investment in art assets.
> 
> Re the below pic for example, I simultaneously thought how awesome it would be to encounter this in game -- particularly if the sound work was just as good to provide a proper, in-person sort of feel -- but then also considered how perhaps unrealistic it would be to expect this level of craftsmanship throughout the game.
> 
> ...



They have that covered... art assets are just going to evolve to imported models. Why model within the engine when you can just generate it from pictures? The only reason we did that, and then applied (photographed, often) textures on those models is because it offered greater efficiency/performance; lower polygon counts allowed more objects in the scene. That limitation is being worked on here.


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## ARF (May 14, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> Threadripper is shit for gaming.



Except when it is the fastest AMD CPU for gaming:












						AMD Ryzen 3 3100 and 3300X processor review
					

Today we're reviewing a series of quad-core processors as released by AMD. The Ryzen 3 3100 and 3300X that we test bring is back a  few years in time, where quad-cores were the norm. These, however... Performance - dGPU - Game performance 720p




					www.guru3d.com
				








InVasMani said:


> A terrible console port in years past would be the answer to this in general. Far as the PS5 goes however apparently the storage in it is really fast and high end, but largely hype at the same time because NVMe for PCIe 4.0 is quite fast as well and I'm sure the PS5 is utilizing it being Ryzen based. Really anything PCIE 4.0 based should be capable of the same with the right storage setup. Additionally you've got a ramdisk and primo cache and like StoreMi that should exceed those levels. I think part of this is also to do with the fact AMD's GPU's are capable of HBCC and with these new storage systems that's a really big deal apparently.



The point is the lack of any loading times. Have you got NO loading times in games on PC ?


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## theonek (May 14, 2020)

well it will be nice to implement this engine in next tomb raider/uncharted games.... or remaster the old ones with it.... only nobody knows what hardware we will need to run it propertly....


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## Rahnak (May 14, 2020)

I wish people would just get consoles and PCs aren't directly competing and stop all the nonsensical fighting.

As for the demo, it looks amazing, but UE5 is only coming out next year. It's gonna be a good couple of years before you see any games really taking advantage of it (and they never quite get on tech demo levels).



Vayra86 said:


> Demo was very clearly 30FPS. But maybe you need a high refresh panel to see that, I don't know, but if I view 30 FPS content on a 120hz panel, its like someone is clicking through powerpoint very quickly


I don't know whether I should be happy or sad that I couldn't tell that at all.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 14, 2020)

Rahnak said:


> I wish people would just get consoles and PCs aren't directly competing and stop all the nonsensical fighting.



It's not like it actually matters.


----------



## ARF (May 14, 2020)

theonek said:


> well it will be nice to implement this engine in next tomb raider/uncharted games.... or remaster the old ones with it.... only nobody knows what hardware we will need to run it propertly....



It is run on PlayStation 5 right now.




Rahnak said:


> As for the demo, it looks amazing, but UE5 is only coming out next year. It's gonna be a good couple of years before you see any games really taking advantage of it (and they never quite get on tech demo levels).



They can make Unreal Tournament right now if they wish.


----------



## Vayra86 (May 14, 2020)

Rahnak said:


> I wish people would just get consoles and PCs aren't directly competing and stop all the nonsensical fighting.
> 
> As for the demo, it looks amazing, but UE5 is only coming out next year. It's gonna be a good couple of years before you see any games really taking advantage of it (and they never quite get on tech demo levels).
> 
> ...



Consoles and PCs do compete, its just a very weird symbiotic relationship really. Maybe its like marriage. They need each other, but they can't stand each other.


----------



## londiste (May 14, 2020)

ratirt said:


> And how do you know that it dropped below 60FPS (to 30FPS) or what was the actual FPS in that demo? I don't see any number given for the FPS and what was the actual FPS in that demo but if you have a concrete info about this please share.


Even with the video being what it is you can clearly see frame rate stutters and stutters to below 30fps.


ARF said:


> The point is the lack of any loading times. Have you got NO loading times in games on PC ?


The tech they are hyping is not about loading times. It is about asset streaming during gameplay. This is likely to be not very significant compared to PC but is very significant compared to PS4/XB1 (and PS4Pro/XBX) with the drives and interfaces these were using.


Rahnak said:


> As for the demo, it looks amazing, but UE5 is only coming out next year. It's gonna be a good couple of years before you see any games really taking advantage of it (and they never quite get on tech demo levels).


They said most or all of what is shown is already there in current UE 4.25. UE5 is Epic taking advantage of a nice marketing opportunity to tie it together with PS5 and next-gen.


DrCR said:


> My concern would be to have this in game would require too great of an investment in art assets.


There is already an industry creating assets for games (among other uses for the same assets). I bet lower-budget games will just use more and more bought assets.


MxPhenom 216 said:


> So no mention of Ray tracing? Is that DOA tech now then?


When they say Lumen, they mean their lighting engine that incorporates all the different tech in lighting area. Pretty sure most of the impressive-looking lighting in the demo is raytraced. GI and shadows definitely.


ARF said:


> I think that future graphics cards will evolve around their ray-tracing performance since all cards starting from RDNA2 will be able to do the "*Nanite* virtualized micropolygon geometry" or so small "triangles" so that we call it infinite detail.


They are not very clear on what their Nanite tech actually is or does. It does not have much to do with raytracing. From what they said I would assume it largely does automatic LOD management, transitions and streaming.


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 14, 2020)

PC


ARF said:


> Except when it is the fastest AMD CPU for gaming:
> 
> View attachment 155143
> 
> ...


You still don't get it, you are just defending the platform you game on.

All those cores are going to waste, it's shit for gaming, check out that price.

If only brains were used first.



It is usually those who own a outdated PC that defend it the hardest though as they lack knowledge of how visuals do look on PC compared to what was shown.



Pumper said:


> Why do you keep talking about 2080Tis when Epic already said that a 2070S runs the demo with "Pretty Good Performance".
> 
> And what are you talking about when you say that "these consoles are on par"? They are not even out yet, and if the rumors of RTX3000 are true, by the time they are released a 3060 will beat them at everything.


I said it is up there with PC... everyone get's a stick in their ass because it hurts them somehow.



Vayra86 said:


> The consoles will offer high end performance by the time they are released. This is good. But its much more than 0.001% that will be having a faster PC. 3-5% would be more accurate.
> Did you think Navi 21 and/or RDNA2 in the new consoles will be approaching 2080ti performance? And even if so, did you think the ceiling would remain at that?
> As for TR... it* rivals a* *9900K *in gaming and people do use PCs for more than just gaming, after all, if they didn't, they'd buy that PS5
> 
> ...


Compared to the last bunch of consoles these are worthy machines, it's not hype, we are not going to get a drastically improved game on PC.



rvalencia said:


> Consumers can spend their own money within the law. Who are you to dictate another person's spending habits?


Go back to gamespot. Clearly have reading deficiencies.


----------



## londiste (May 14, 2020)

In terms of hardware, both PS5 and XBX are roughly 3700X with 5700XT plus RT hardware. And a really nice fast NVMe SSD.

Edit:
Close enough


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 14, 2020)

londiste said:


> In terms of hardware, both PS5 and XBX are roughly 3700X with 5700XT plus RT hardware. And a really nice fast NVMe SSD.


I am not sure where you are getting that information from because the XBX clearly has more of everything vs a 5700-XT.









						AMD Xbox Series X GPU Specs
					

AMD Scarlett, 1825 MHz, 3328 Cores, 208 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 10240 MB GDDR6, 1750 MHz, 320 bit




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Mescalamba (May 14, 2020)

Its similar stuff thats used to render Mandalorian.

End game engine doesnt mean games will look this good. Why? Well cause incompetent companies making games. Thats why.

UE is for years one of top engines, but very few actually can use it right. Not Epics fault that they cant.


----------



## ratirt (May 14, 2020)

londiste said:


> Even with the video being what it is you can clearly see frame rate stutters and stutters to below 30fps.


Well, I couldn't. crappy phone with a smallest screen I've ever seen (nowadays I mean). Besides, I wasn't looking at the FPS since that is not what this video is about.


----------



## ARF (May 14, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> PC
> 
> You still don't get it, you are just defending the platform you game on.
> 
> All those cores are going to waste, it's shit for gaming, check out that price.



The price is fine for all the things you get. You can game, stream and heavy-multi-thread in the same time. Try this with your 6-core 

No console will be able to get even close to computers specs.


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 14, 2020)

ARF said:


> The price is fine for all the things you get. You can game, stream and heavy-multi-thread in the same time. Try this with your 6-core
> 
> No console will be able to get even close to computers specs.


Ok.

Over 100FPS AT 4k.










Over 100FPS running a pure CPU stream.













Suck it up, these consoles shame you and you can't take it, they are great for consumers and gamers alike, not the tiny 0.001% who think having 64 cores for games that max on 12 threads is worth over £2000 for the CPU alone.


----------



## ARF (May 14, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> Suck it up, these consoles shame you and you can't take it, they are great for consumers and gamers alike, not the tiny 0.001% who think having 64 cores for games that max on 12 threads is worth over £2000 for the CPU alone.



There are many Threadrippers starting from 8-core and up


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 14, 2020)

ARF said:


> There are many Threadrippers starting from 8-core and up


If you like using first gen Ryzen yes, which is far slower than the CPU in the consoles.


----------



## Vayra86 (May 14, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> Compared to the last bunch of consoles these are worthy machines, it's not hype, we are not going to get a drastically improved game on PC.



Rewind to the PS3 launch, and we can find copies of your statement, but we know better now 

All I read here is an echo of marketing 'This time, everything will be different'.

No, it is just yet another iteration and a generational leap. It is in fact the leap we might have been looking for since the PS4 launch but never materialized.


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 14, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> Rewind to the PS3 launch, and we can find copies of your statement, but we know better now


Except it ran with a cut down GeForce GPU and a decidely brave yet stupid choice of a IBM CPU.

No matter how you slice it, these machines are up there with PC and will be for a decent amount of time, we all  know hardware will get faster, that never changes, but these are worthy consoles.


"The leap we wanted since PS4 launch"

In terms of then yes, but now is now.


----------



## Vayra86 (May 14, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> Except it ran with a cut down GeForce GPU and a decidely brave yet stupid choice of a IBM CPU.
> 
> No matter how you slice it, these machines are up there with PC and will be for a decent amount of time, we all  know hardware will get faster, that never changes, but these are worthy consoles.



And yet, the first disclaimers are already flying across the headlines. 4K60 is already evidently out the window. 1440p upscaled seems to become a norm. Should I continue?  The last gen was a 1080p capable machine.... reality, most titles had to be reduced to 900p30 native, 1080p30 best case. And that is with a box of tricks applied.


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 14, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> And yet, the first disclaimers are already flying across the headlines. 4K60 is already evidently out the window. 1440p upscaled seems to become a norm. Should I continue?


That is down to the developers what they prioritize, hardware wise, these machines have no reason to be skimping.


----------



## Vayra86 (May 14, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> That is down to the developers what they prioritize, hardware wise, these machines have no reason to be skimping.



No? There are still shared resources, limited power budget, and a custom chip built around cost efficiency before performance. In a well balanced package, but let's not start acting like we are getting copies of full fat discrete GPUs because that is not what AMD is cooking for them. This counts for both GPU and CPU. You get a gaming optimized chip, not the full fat one.

Come on man, you can't be this naive.


----------



## lemonadesoda (May 14, 2020)

The SHORT video clips look amazing. The engine is very capable. But if objects are not described by geometry (thousands of points and triangles) but by macro-atom (tens of millions of points and pixels), then the memory requirements become ENORMOUS. Until we see a whole city scenario playthrough, without load-pause, and not these easy scene low memory requirement cave, corridor, or indoor room, then I reserve my judgement. I would imagine that game maps and objects would still be recorded as geometry in the original DVD or download, and then converted to macro-atom data at the start, just like “load map” delay of yesteryear. Only this time we are going to need SSD, multiprocessor, and massive amounts of memory, just to crunch the geometry data into the atomic data.


----------



## Rahnak (May 14, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> Consoles and PCs do compete, its just a very weird symbiotic relationship really. Maybe its like marriage. They need each other, but they can't stand each other.


I do agree on the symbiotic, especially now that they're using parts that are very similar to what you have on the PC side, but I still don't see them as competing, especially as their feature set is so different. I see them as a value oriented gaming devices for people that don't want or can't spend much or just want a simpler, plug and play experience and don't care for the benefits of gaming on a pc. Or as a side gaming device, which is what I personally do (currently have a PS4 and a 3DS).



londiste said:


> Even with the video being what it is you can clearly see frame rate stutters and stutters to below 30fps.


Can you give me an example timestamp?


----------



## londiste (May 14, 2020)

Rahnak said:


> Can you give me an example timestamp?


Around 3:00 and 4:40 seems to be visible.


----------



## ARF (May 14, 2020)

This is an early version, they have months to optimise the software to run it smoothly.


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 14, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> No? There are still shared resources, limited power budget, and a custom chip built around cost efficiency before performance. In a well balanced package, but let's not start acting like we are getting copies of full fat discrete GPUs because that is not what AMD is cooking for them. This counts for both GPU and CPU. You get a gaming optimized chip, not the full fat one.
> 
> Come on man, you can't be this naive.



Have you even seen the GPU specs? Yet another who failed to read them up?


----------



## Rahnak (May 14, 2020)

londiste said:


> Around 3:00 and 4:40 seems to be visible.


Thanks! I see something at 4:48 but seems more like uneven/bad camera movement than a stutter. I wish they'd release the same thing but at 60fps so I could watch them side by side.


----------



## londiste (May 14, 2020)

ARF said:


> This is an early version, they have months to optimise the software to run it smoothly.


Version is kind of a misnomer for Unreal Engine. It is an evolving engine with constant improvements, replacements and optimizations. Versioning is a marketing thing. As they said themselves in the video, almost all of what they show is already there in now-released UE 4.25.

Ship of Theseus could be an apt analogy 



Rahnak said:


> Thanks! I see something at 4:48 but seems more like uneven/bad camera movement than a stutter. I wish they'd release the same thing but at 60fps so I could watch them side by side.


I have my suspicions about some of the transition or effect choices that seem to hide things. But this is a tech demo and extremely smooth one at that, so its all good. I don't mean to take anything away from the demo, it indeed looks very impressive.


----------



## rvalencia (May 14, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> Go back to gamespot. Clearly have reading deficiencies.


Your argument is false. peasant. Reminder: I joined TPU before you.



Decryptor009 said:


> Have you even seen the GPU specs? Yet another who failed to read them up?


PS5 has AMD's Smartshift peasant. You go back to Gamespot.


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 14, 2020)

rvalencia said:


> Your argument is false. peasant. Reminder: I joined TPU before you.
> 
> 
> PS5 has AMD's Smartshift peasant. You go back to Gamespot.


No you clearly have reading problems, this is why you should go back to Gamespot where you can make up things as counter arguments like you are here.



rvalencia said:


> Your argument is false. peasant. Reminder: I joined TPU before you.
> 
> 
> PS5 has AMD's Smartshift peasant. You go back to Gamespot.



And you know nothing of how it works Ron, Just like you never show any understanding of it on Gamespot, you just repeat words to sound like you know anything.

XBX has a much faster GPU core than anything out on the market by AMD, it is a slightly cut down full RDNA2 part also.


----------



## rvalencia (May 14, 2020)

Decryptor is a console defender from Gamespot forum.


Decryptor009 said:


> No you clearly have reading problems, this is why you should go back to Gamespot where you can make up things as counter arguments like you are here.


You're a peasant.
Your argument is patently false. hypocrite.


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 14, 2020)

rvalencia said:


> Decryptor is a console defender from Gamespot forum.
> 
> You're a peasant.
> Your argument is patently false.


This is not system wars Ron, it is just stating that these consoles are up there with PC, the hardware spec is of a much better and much more potent ability than PS4 or XBOX One was in retrospect to the hardware availible on PC.

But because people like to throw around 0.001% usage components as a counter-argument i call them out on how stupid they sound when literally no one buys them.
Ryzen 3000 Threadripper for gaming? get real.

2080Ti.. again a card that is very fast, great card, but for the cost.. no one is really going to buy it save for the top tier elitists who need that performance and have the money to go with it, the every day consumer will be eating up equivelent spec to these consoles.

Now back to you Ron, with your need to insult without using your brain.


----------



## Vayra86 (May 14, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> Have you even seen the GPU specs? Yet another who failed to read them up?



Yes, so? It does not change a thing. PS3 was one of the first consumer octa cores and bluray players... Ps2 was early adopting a dvd drive. Its not relevant; the hardware is fixed and not scalable over time and will be relegated to midrange before you know it.


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 14, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> Yes, so? It does not change a thing.


What is so hard to accept that these consoles are up there with PC spec wise?

Is it really this hard?

My god.


Stating what i already stated, does not factor in that these are far easier to code for, plus i said they are up there with PC, not beating, not entirely matching but up there.

Said something positive about console = i am wrong, uses bullshit as counter arguments, people in here are so up their own ass they can't see straight.

Can't understand how the market works, who the common denominator is who buys which hardware, what sells more and how that is a more representative fact of the general PC user base rather than some top of the line way out of proportion gaming card which you need to sell 2 legs to afford.


----------



## Vayra86 (May 14, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> This is not system wars Ron, it is just stating that these consoles are up there with PC, the hardware spec is of a much better and much more potent ability than PS4 or XBOX One was in retrospect to the hardware availible on PC.
> 
> But because people like to throw around 0.001% usage components as a counter-argument i call them out on how stupid they sound when literally no one buys them.
> Ryzen 3000 Threadripper for gaming? get real.
> ...



The only person harping on about 2080tis and 0001% is you mate.

As for the rest. The tinted glasses are also clearly on your nose here...I dont think anyone is saying this gen will suck? It looks promising, but it is also just more of the same; another console with finite lifespan, walled garden and obsolete compared to PC in a couple of years. In the early console years however you rarely do get the best each gen has on offer.

So the perf might be there, but will the games be? PS4 and earlier confirmed the opposite many times.

Back to you Ron...


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 14, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> The only person harping on about 2080tis and 0001% is you mate.


Yes because it needs to be stated when we have low intellect fan girls to hardware people buy.



Vayra86 said:


> The only person harping on about 2080tis and 0001% is you mate.
> 
> As for the rest. The tinted glasses are also clearly on your nose here...I dont think anyone is saying this gen will suck? It looks promising, but it is also just more of the same; another console with finite lifespan, walled garden and obsolete compared to PC in a couple of years. In the early console years however you rarely do get the best each gen has on offer.
> 
> ...


First page has plenty of ignorance on it, why are you so heavily wanting to argue with me if you are on my side? i don't like pretenders and manipulators.


----------



## Vayra86 (May 14, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> Yes because it needs to be stated when we have low intellect fan girls to hardware people buy.



You are now one post away from my very special console peasant ignore corner. You can fight your battle elsewhere.


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 14, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> You are now one post away from my very special console peasant ignore corner. You can fight your battle elsewhere.


So i am a console peasant for saying the hardware is up there and putting out some facts for you?

Go figure.


Do you think i care what you think of me? your snotty little ego don't bother me.


----------



## Vayra86 (May 14, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> So i am a console peasant for saying the hardware is up there and putting out some facts for you?
> 
> Go figure.



No, you are becoming a troll

Well done, sir. Ticket confirmed.


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 14, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> No, you are becoming a troll


Challenge = troll.

So you give up but want to win even though you can't back up anything you say.

So passive - aggressive, you are a troll, off loads responsibility from you so you look better..

Whatever you wish for mate, good luck.


----------



## medi01 (May 14, 2020)

medi01 said:


> somewhere in a milky way, about a decade ago and ON PLAYSTATION 3, yeah, they are this shameless:




And Unreal 4 demo, or that matter:












MxPhenom 216 said:


> LOL no, no they are not.


Well, yeah, PS5 and XSeX stomp over 98% and 99% of current PC market respectively.


----------



## Makaveli (May 14, 2020)

medi01 said:


> And Unreal 4 demo, or that matter:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can't stomp on a market with a product you can't buy and won't be on the market for another 6 months.

And there will already be faster Cpu's and gpu's out when these consoles come out so kinda moot point.


----------



## medi01 (May 14, 2020)

Makaveli said:


> And there will already be faster Cpu's and gpu's out when these consoles come out so kinda moot point.



We are talking about 2080 - 2080super level GPUs in PS5/XSeX.

Even if there is something for $250 that beats those (there won't be, not even remotely) that would barely change the landscape any time soon.

Next game consoles are quite different, Microsoft went crazy on specs in attempt to have revenge, Sony was expecting it.


----------



## Fluffmeister (May 14, 2020)

Makaveli said:


> Can't stomp on a market with a product you can't buy and won't be on the market for another 6 months.
> 
> And there will already be faster Cpu's and gpu's out when these consoles come out so kinda moot point.



Be gentle with him, I can however confirm my future card stomps over everything.


----------



## Makaveli (May 14, 2020)

medi01 said:


> We are talking about 2080 - 2080super level GPUs in PS5/XSeX.
> 
> Even if there is something for $250 that beats those (there won't be, not even remotely) that would barely change the landscape any time soon.
> 
> Next game consoles are quite different, Microsoft went crazy on specs in attempt to have revenge, Sony was expecting it.



That doesn't make my statement incorrect.


----------



## ARF (May 14, 2020)

medi01 said:


> We are talking about 2080 - 2080super level GPUs in PS5/XSeX.
> 
> Even if there is something for $250 that beats those (there won't be, not even remotely) that would barely change the landscape any time soon.



RTX 2080 is 15% faster than the RX 5700 XT while RTX 2080 S is 22% faster than the RX 5700 XT.
You could buy an RX 5700 for $324. And you can flash it with RX 5700 XT BIOS and achieve its performance.

Navi 2X, that is Navi 23 ~240 sq. mm GPU and Navi 22 ~350 sq. mm with 50% higher performance per watt will most probably beat these ^^^^^^^ and cost from around $250.


----------



## rvalencia (May 15, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> This is not system wars Ron, it is just stating that these consoles are up there with PC, the hardware spec is of a much better and much more potent ability than PS4 or XBOX One was in retrospect to the hardware availible on PC.
> 
> But because people like to throw around 0.001% usage components as a counter-argument i call them out on how stupid they sound when literally no one buys them.
> Ryzen 3000 Threadripper for gaming? get real.
> ...


You're still wrong with Threadripper Zen 2 not being good for gaming. Stop dodging your own stupid argument of envy.



Decryptor009 said:


> Challenge = troll.
> 
> So you give up but want to win even though you can't back up anything you say.
> 
> ...


The argument of envy is not a technical argument. Try again.


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 15, 2020)

rvalencia said:


> You're still wrong with Threadripper Zen 2 not being good for gaming. Stop dodging your own stupid argument of envy.
> 
> 
> The argument of envy is not a technical argument. Try again.


Yes i  am really envious of a £1200 - 3000 CPU...

You really are trying so hard, it's terrible, the price is just insane for any sane minded person who only wants to game. For that reason it is shit, benchmarks are not everything, and most PC enthusiasts and gamers are not going to spend 1 - 3k on a CPU.


I can't help it if you dislike my choice of words, but to me anything is shit if i can't afford it, it may aswell be, it's just an inanimate object..
I would not say that to someone who owns one, that's not how i think, i just use the word shit as a shortened way of explaining why i won't buy it, less for me to say, easier for moe to move on, which is what would be nice, if you would let people move on Ron.

Or do you need to try yet more manipulation?


----------



## rvalencia (May 15, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> Yes i  am really envious of a £1200 - 3000 CPU...
> 
> You really are trying so hard, it's terrible, the price is just insane for any sane minded person who only wants to game. For that reason it is shit, benchmarks are not everything, and most PC enthusiasts and gamers are not going to spend 1 - 3k on a CPU.
> 
> ...


Again,  you're still wrong with Threadripper Zen 2 not being good for gaming. Stop dodging your own stupid argument of envy.



I source my PC components from USA e.g. https://pcpartpicker.com/products/cpu/#F=79&sort=price&page=1


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 15, 2020)

rvalencia said:


> Again,  you're still wrong with Threadripper Zen 2 not being good for gaming *and *productivity. Stop dodging your own stupid argument of envy.
> 
> View attachment 155280


You just added stuff in there, i said it's shit for gaming, my wallet says so, learn what opinions are jerk.

Great for productivity yes, did anyone mentioned that? no... adding crap as you see fit Ron.

As i stated before though, you are this stupid on Gamespot. I don't have an account on there by the way, i read the place quite a lot.


----------



## rvalencia (May 15, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> You just added stuff in there, i said it's shit for gaming, my wallet says so, learn what opinions are jerk.
> 
> Great for productivity yes, did anyone mentioned that? no... adding crap as you see fit Ron.
> 
> As i stated before though, you are this stupid on Gamespot. I don't have an account on there by the way, i read the place quite a lot.


You're still wrong and stupid. You go back to gamespot. Hypocrite, Hint: I Joined TPU on Nov 4, 2011.



Vayra86 said:


> No, you are becoming a troll
> 
> Well done, sir. Ticket confirmed.


*D*ecryptor009 has arguments about wealth envy and has departed from the technical discussion.


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 15, 2020)

There is nothing more to say, i added a laughing emoticon to your post because i genuinely laughed at how stupid your post is.

Wearing a time stamp of when you joined as some badge of honor or way of making you seem smarter than you actually are, you have trolled and tried to throw me off the entire time with manipulative tactics, now you are stringing a person that you hope has the same view because his prior opinion was me being a troll, well done on the social manipulation Ron, still no where near intelligent enough to understand the dynamics of the market and what PC gamers are truly going to be buying through statistical means.

This is my last post to you, because you are a lost cause and a very sour person.


----------



## Shatun_Bear (May 16, 2020)

The PS5 SSD, to use Sweeney's words, is 'god-tier'. Not just the speed but the I/O and how closely integrated it is to the rest of the system (memory, GPU, CPU).

I really hope PC gaming hardware slowly moves closer to the tight integration of currently disparate components into one super efficient package. Brute forcing can only go so far. We'll only likely get this in an APU.


----------



## londiste (May 16, 2020)

Shatun_Bear said:


> The PS5 SSD, to use Sweeney's words, is 'god-tier'. Not just the speed but the I/O and how closely integrated it is to the rest of the system (memory, GPU, CPU).
> I really hope PC gaming hardware slowly moves closer to the tight integration of currently disparate components into one super efficient package. Brute forcing can only go so far. We'll only likely get this in an APU.


Based on what we know so far, the drives are standard NVMe drives connected over PCIe 4.0 x4. This is very standard approach. When it comes to "closely integrated", there are two things:
1. Hardware data compression for increasing bandwidth;
2. Priority queues for moving data (seem to be mainly aimed at getting data latency down for asset streaming to VRAM).


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## Rahnak (May 16, 2020)

@londiste The PS5 internal SSD has a proprietary 12 channel custom controller with a bunch of extra features. It is hooked over PCIe 4.0 x4 but it's far from standard. Expandable storage is for regular m.2 NVMe SSDs though. They will need higher read speeds to compensate though (in other words, expensive as heck)


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## londiste (May 16, 2020)

The fact that expandable storage is regular M.2 NVMe tells you it can't be that special 
Probably special controller firmware plus the hardware compression hardware. Needs little to no change on the actual drive.


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## Rahnak (May 16, 2020)

londiste said:


> The fact that expandable storage is regular M.2 NVMe tells you it can't be that special
> Probably special controller firmware plus the hardware compression hardware. Needs little to no change on the actual drive.


The expandable storage is regular m.2 NVMe because the slot is wired to the custom flash controller as well. The SSD was one of the main points of the PS5 technical talk a while back. You can read all about it in Digital Foundry's deep dive as well. No doubt it would've been simpler for Sony to package their tech into a proprietary external SSD, but allowing for off the shelf parts just earns them good points with players.


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## londiste (May 16, 2020)

__





						Understanding the PS5's SSD: A deep dive into next-gen storage tech
					

The PlayStation 5's new SSD is revolutionary, delivering massive efficiency through speed and enabling true next-gen performance on the console.




					www.tweaktown.com
				



Controller firmware is what seems to be the key here. They also say there will be SSDs on the market that are fast enough that can be put into PS5.
Again, controller firmware plus hardware compression. Pretty standard stuff.

Remember that all the talk and marketing are against PS4's HDD. Compared to that, its leaps and bounds faster. Compared to a fast NVMe drive it's pretty good but not that unusual.


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## Rahnak (May 17, 2020)

londiste said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Had to look up the definition of standard to make sure it was what I thought it was.   Yeah, still not a standard SSD. If it were they'd just chuck in an off the shelf unit, call it a day and save some money in the process. It has extra spice (besides the hardware decompression). And again, the only reason you can expand the storage with a regular NVMe drive is because the slot is wired to the internal SSD's custom controller. And again, the read speeds have to be even faster than 5.5GB/s to offset the lack of features (like the NVMe spec *standard *2 priority states versus the internal SSD's 6).

Don't get me wrong, my point isn't that this is the fastest thing on the block, we'll probably have SSDs reaching 7GB/s reads later this year or early next year, just that this isn't a standard unit.


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## ARF (May 18, 2020)

PS5's SSD runs at 5.5 GB/s, while Xbox Series X at 2.4 GB/s 

*Tim Sweeney Explains Exactly Why the PS5’s SSD and I/O Architecture Is Way More Efficient Than PC’s*









						Tim Sweeney Explains Exactly Why the PS5's SSD and I/O Architecture Is Way More Efficient Than PC's
					

Epic founder Tim Sweeney explained exactly why the PlayStation 5's SSD and I/O Architecture is way more efficient than PC's.




					wccftech.com
				







> The latter component is particularly relevant because Microsoft already confirmed plans to bring it to Windows PC, too. According to Microsoft, DirectStorage can significantly reduce CPU overhead for I/O operations (such as those happening in the background to load the next parts of the world) from several cores to a small fraction of a single core. Needless to say, this could severely diminish the PC I/O issues mentioned above by Tim Sweeney.


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## Shatun_Bear (May 23, 2020)

londiste said:


> Based on what we know so far, the drives are standard NVMe drives connected over PCIe 4.0 x4. This is very standard approach. When it comes to "closely integrated", there are two things:
> 1. Hardware data compression for increasing bandwidth;
> 2. Priority queues for moving data (seem to be mainly aimed at getting data latency down for asset streaming to VRAM).



No be logical.

The PS5 SSD is far from standard from what I've read. For a start, it has a 12-channel memory controller. Fastest PC NVMe drives have only 4-channels. Secondly, its flash memory is placed physically very close to the processor, allowing for far greater efficiency than is possible from disparate PC components clumsily communicating with each other in your average rig (SSD, memory and CPU/GPU).

Now I'm a PC gamer not a console gamer and always will be, but there doesnt need to be this insecurity when it comes to consoles. They lift the baseline and help move PC gaming forward. A general purpose machine, even if we call it a 'gaming PC', is still general purpose and made up of separate parts. We will never see the type of PS5 efficiency and I/O communication speed between _all_ components on PC as all parts are separate. The console is built for one purpose and all its parts completely integrated.

Brute force approach on PC can alleviate some of these problems.


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## londiste (May 23, 2020)

Most NVMe drives are 8 channels. High end is 12 channels (although these models are probably datacenter stuff and prohibitively expensive, Intel's DC45xx for example).
Sony has confirmed some standard SSDs will be supported and rumors say Sony is working with Samsung on this, so Samsung next-gen SSDs will use the same 12-channel controller.
Physically very close has almost no meaning in this context.

PS5 is a PC in terms of hardware. It being special is basically firmware and mostly software.
All the parts, buses and integration are standard affair that you get in a PC.

Edit:
Consoles used to be special - considerably different types of hardware, processors and accelerators. This was the case in early generations where computers were not standard stuff anyway and most notably 5th and 6th gen where most consoles had custom hardware. Think PS/PS2 and contemporaries that were very different from what PCs were doing at the time (and consoles really did have features and capabilities that PCs could not do for a couple years). 7th gen with PS3 and XBox 360 is interesting middle ground where both went for more standard components but in slightly different directions - XB360's Tri-core Xenon vs PS3's Cell and R520-based Xenon (with some R600 parts) vs G70/G71 hybrid RSX. Last gen and the upcoming one are starkly different from how things used to be done. There are some special ASICs here and there but CPU and GPU along with the system architecture is bog standard x86 PC. 8-core Jaguar and GCN GPU in the previous gen and Zen2 + RDNA2 in the upcoming one. It's x86, uses the standard buses and solutions for almost everything.

The only special integration I can think of in last gen and the next one is memory controller configuration. There are pros and cons to shared memory controllers but the decision to use them is not about being special but for both simplicity and lower cost when CPU and GPU are integrated into the same die or package anyway.


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## Shatun_Bear (May 24, 2020)

londiste said:


> Most NVMe drives are 8 channels. High end is 12 channels (although these models are probably datacenter stuff and prohibitively expensive, Intel's DC45xx for example).
> Sony has confirmed some standard SSDs will be supported and rumors say Sony is working with Samsung on this, so Samsung next-gen SSDs will use the same 12-channel controller.
> Physically very close has almost no meaning in this context.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry but this is pure nonsense. Both consoles are highly custom, especially the PS5 and it's SSD with its integration into the rest of the system, extensive work on I/O to remove all bottlenecks etc. I dont get the insecurity at all, embrace it, our cumbersome and brute force PCs will only copy some of the features in the future but if they don't, its not the end of the world as I use my PC for many other things other than gaming, which there is too much focus on these days.

And most SSDs are not 8-channels. You think most SSDs are NVMe Samsung Evos?


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## ARF (Jul 5, 2020)

> Speaking in the latest issue of Official PlayStation Magazine UK, Epic’s Kim Liberi claimed the new consoles would fulfil his longtime goal partly thanks to Unreal Engine 5’s Nanite tech, which is claimed will allow developers to put “movie-quality” assets in their games.
> “It has been a lifelong dream of mine that real-time computer graphics, and in particular games, can be as believable and realistic as a movie,” he said.
> “Next-gen graphics and processing power will not only make games more immersive, but will also enable entirely new gameplay concepts that can take advantage of fully dynamic environments and lighting, much-improved physics, smarter AI, and richer multiplayer experiences.”
> 
> ...



*PS5 and Xbox Series X will achieve dream of ‘movie-quality graphics’, says Epic*








						PS5 and Xbox Series X will achieve dream of ‘movie-quality graphics’, says Epic | VGC
					

CTO discusses UE5'




					www.videogameschronicle.com


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## londiste (Jul 5, 2020)

From the comments of that article:


http://imgur.com/kVBxB04



Unreal is one of the most used engines, if not THE most used engine for games. Even more so on consoles. This is marketing, pure and simple.


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## Vayra86 (Jul 5, 2020)

ARF said:


> *PS5 and Xbox Series X will achieve dream of ‘movie-quality graphics’, says Epic*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Only movie quality? Man I remember how the N64 was marketed with "photo realistic" graphics. At least GoldenEye did have actual mug shots of movie characters in it



Shatun_Bear said:


> I'm sorry but this is pure nonsense. Both consoles are highly custom, especially the PS5 and it's SSD with its integration into the rest of the system, extensive work on I/O to remove all bottlenecks etc. I dont get the insecurity at all, embrace it, our cumbersome and brute force PCs will only copy some of the features in the future but if they don't, its not the end of the world as I use my PC for many other things other than gaming, which there is too much focus on these days.
> 
> And most SSDs are not 8-channels. You think most SSDs are NVMe Samsung Evos?



Highly custom? They are tweaked x86 machines optimized on cost/performance and the GPU is always the limiting factor. Last I checked, AMD GPUs werent exactly performance kings. To believe a cost effective console release is somehow going to make them leap ahead by a full gen on GPU is some pretty serious wishful thinking... and that is only considering Nvidia will not improve anything over a 2080ti in the near future.

Its just business as usual.


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## ARF (Jul 5, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> Only movie quality? Man I remember how the N64 was marketed with "photo realistic" graphics. At least GoldenEye did have actual mug shots of movie characters in it
> 
> 
> 
> Highly custom? They are tweaked x86 machines optimized on cost/performance and the GPU is always the limiting factor. Last I checked, AMD GPUs werent exactly performance kings. To believe a cost effective console release is somehow going to make them leap ahead by a full gen on GPU is some pretty serious wishful thinking...



The only difference and quite significant, though, is the SSD implementation that is a magnitude of times superior than anything on PC.

But this is not a reason for me to ever consider a purchase of the PS5.
I am just impressed what they can do in order to stimulate the sales.

We must pray that Microsoft will start optimising its software ecosystem around that kind of SSD performance and no loading times, etc benefits coming from it.


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## Vayra86 (Jul 5, 2020)

ARF said:


> The only difference and quite significant, though, is the SSD implementation that is a magnitude of times superior than anything on PC.
> 
> But this is not a reason for me to ever consider a purchase of the PS5.
> I am just impressed what they can do in order to stimulate the sales.
> ...



Agreed and they probably found a way to customize the pipeline such that the data on SSD serves as another level of (V)RAM, albeit slower. The move to more streaming oriented engines is not new but yes I think that is how they enable higher resolutions / textures and higher numbers of assets into scenes. Effectively they already did something along those lines with the PS4/X1, each in their own way. The PS4 just fully relies on GDDR5 for everything, sacrificing performance/snappiness outside of graphics, essentially. Its not a huge hit on GPU grunt, its mostly moving a crapload of data around. Probably fits well with a 30 FPS limitation which is what any high res content will be optimized around, most likely. The higher frametime allows sufficient time to fetch data and tradeoff is minimal, if anything.

Other than that I don't directly see how SSD can enable nicer looking games, the GPU will always be the limiting factor. The PC has other ways to get around that problem, because GPU grunt just keeps scaling up and will surpass next gen consoles within a year, at some similar price point. We've already been looking at 11GB VRAM for some years now for example


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## droopyRO (Jul 5, 2020)

ARF said:


> PS5 and Xbox Series X will achieve dream of ‘movie-quality graphics’, says Epic


I am waiting for my "dream" of gameplay and story in AAA games.


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