# upgrade i5 2500k Intel or AMD ?



## spudknife (Aug 11, 2020)

hello Tekkies,

my current rig is this :

cpu : i5 2500k (not overclock)
cooler : enermax LiqTech ELC-LT120X-HP (not AM4 compatible)
mb : asrock b75m itx (no overclocking possible)
ram : 16Gb ddr3
ssd : 2x256 Go
gpu : evga gtx 1070
psu : be quiet system power 7 350W 80+ BRONZE
case : cooler master elite 130 (only itx mb)
monitor : samsumg 2233rz 1680 x 1050 

I would like to upgrade with a limit of 400€.
I would like to keep the 2 ssd, psu, gpu, monitor, case and perhaps the cpu cooler.
I am only playing games.
So I need the best gaming performance for the money upgrade.

I was looking at 2 upgrades one Intel and one AMD.

Intel
cpu : i5 10400F
ram : corsair 16Gb ddr4 3200
mb : asrock z490m itx/ac
price : 370€

AMD
cpu : ryzen 3 3100 (3300x not available)
cooler : Arctic Liquid Freezer II 120
ram : corsair 16Gb ddr4 3200
mb : asrock b550m itx/ac
price : 350€

What do you think ? Thanks in advance.


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## FreedomEclipse (Aug 11, 2020)

i5 10400F  all the way. More cores/threads than the R3 3100 make it a no brainer


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## dirtyferret (Aug 11, 2020)

based on those two options the intel platform is the better choice


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## ThrashZone (Aug 11, 2020)

Hi,
Always best for gaming is intel








						Intel Core i5-10400F Review - Six Cores with HT for Under $200
					

Intel's new Core i5-10400F offers a large performance jump over the previous generation Core i5-9400F because of its six-core/twelve-thread design. In this Core i5-10400F review we also test the feasibility of overclocking through BCLK, or by relaxing the PL1 and PL2 Turbo Limits.




					www.techpowerup.com
				



Not a 10400k but good idea of what base is








						Intel Core i5-10400 vs. AMD Ryzen 5 3600
					

Intel's new Core i5-10400 is a locked 6-core, 12-thread processor that operates at between 2.9 GHz and 4.3 GHz depending on the workload. At around $180, this...




					www.techspot.com


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## dont whant to set it"' (Aug 11, 2020)

The stock cooler that comes with the R3 3100/3300 is more than capable in ways that you could maybe get a r5 3600 at the expence of the aftermarket cooler you listed there and them stock ones are by far not close to beeing loud at full speed. I gandered looks at speedier alternatives for the other build, but all them options all go above your listed budget.


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## spudknife (Aug 11, 2020)

thanks for the replay is the any other cpu to consider ?


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## ThrashZone (Aug 11, 2020)

spudknife said:


> thanks for the replay is the any other cpu to consider ?


Hi,
Your budget not really.
I'd be looking at a better intel mother board though.
Gigabyte or cheap asus tuf.


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## spudknife (Aug 11, 2020)

dont whant to set it"' said:


> The stock cooler that comes with the R3 3100/3300 is more than capable in ways that you could maybe get a r5 3600 at the expence of the aftermarket cooler you listed there and them stock ones are by far not close to beeing loud at full speed. I gandered looks at speedier alternatives for the other build, but all them options all go above your listed budget.


I need a watercooling system because of the airflow and I dont like the loud.

cpu : i5 10600k
mb : cheap h410 itx 
What about this ?


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## kapone32 (Aug 11, 2020)

The 3100x is still a good buy. You should easily be able to find a cheap 3600 or 3700 when you are ready to upgrade. A board like the Asus B550 Prime M would be great in this scenario.


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## spudknife (Aug 11, 2020)

kapone32 said:


> The 3100x is still a good buy. You should easily be able to find a cheap 3600 or 3700 when you are ready to upgrade. A board like the Asus B550 Prime M would be great in this scenario.


I will also be able to upgarde to zen 3 architecture 4XXX, that is why I am asking advice.

On one hand i5 10400f good performance upgrade and on the other ryzen 3 3100x weak performance upgrade but nice upgrade in the future (zen 3).


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## Chomiq (Aug 11, 2020)

spudknife said:


> I need a watercooling system because of the airflow and I dont like the loud.
> 
> cpu : i5 10600k
> mb : cheap h410 itx
> What about this ?


Won't h410 lock you out of overclocking the k cpu? 

It's like you're doing it all wrong. First you pair a budget cpu with a high end board, next you pair a a high end cpu with a low end board.


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## spudknife (Aug 11, 2020)

Chomiq said:


> Won't h410 lock you out of overclocking the k cpu?
> 
> It's like you're doing it all wrong. First you pair a budget cpu with a high end board, next you pair a a high end cpu with a low end board.


I agree have you any advice ?

The main issue with Intel mb, you need a z490 chipset to achieve the full cpu performance (ram speed).


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## kapone32 (Aug 11, 2020)

spudknife said:


> I will also be able to upgarde to zen 3 architecture 4XXX, that is why I am asking advice.
> 
> On one hand i5 10400f good performance upgrade and on the other ryzen 3 3100x weak performance upgrade but nice upgrade in the future (zen 3).


Exactly my point. I have had the 3300X in an Asus B450 Prime and I was able to OC to 4.4 GHZ easily the B550, with double the chokes should be able to handle whatever comes next. If you have been on AM4 from the beginning the performance improvement is tangible. The next gen should be at least as good in terms of performance improvements as going from 1st to 2nd Gen AM4 where the 2600 was tangibly faster than the 1700.



spudknife said:


> I need a watercooling system because of the airflow and I dont like the loud.
> 
> cpu : i5 10600k
> mb : cheap h410 itx
> What about this ?



If you want Watercooling I would advise Alphacool. They have a plethora of products readily available on Amazon and do sell directly to the public. The quality is really good too and they have a quick connect system that makes Watercooling a little easier and they have G 1/4 specs. Corsair is interesting because they are a large vendor who just jumped into the market. With that you can find rads and reservoir pump combos for decent pricing. I recently was able to get a 280MM rad for $85 (Canadian). You could use a combination of both to have a really nice and quiet system for both the CPU and GPU.


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## Chomiq (Aug 11, 2020)

spudknife said:


> I agree have you any advice ?
> 
> The main issue with Intel mb, you need a z490 chipset to achieve the full cpu performance (ram speed).


You want to save money go 10400F + cheap motherboard.

Going by pcpartpicker the exact intel build you initially listed goes for 395€.

With a 10400 and a H410 you're down to 330€. Also, 10400 not F, because it's 1€ difference between the two and you get iGPU just in case.

Long story short you're paying 65€ extra just a couple percent here and there.

Possible upgrade paths are completely different deal because that will mean basically rebuilding your PC from ground up. PSU, case, cooling, etc will have to exchanged. Also you'll probably have a sideways upgrade path on Intel and a max of 1 gen on AMD (assuming they will ditch the AM4 after Zen 3) which will come out within few months after your purchase.


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## Lindatje (Aug 11, 2020)

spudknife said:


> hello Tekkies,
> 
> my current rig is this :
> 
> ...


Just wait for the AMD Ryzen 4000 serie, they are almost here. Or take a AMD Ryzen 3600.


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## spudknife (Aug 11, 2020)

375€ here in germany



Lindatje said:


> Just wait for the AMD Ryzen 4000 serie, they are almost here. Or take a AMD Ryzen 3600.


Yes the 3600 is an option with a bit more money 420€

I think Lindatje is right I will wait for AMD Ryzen 4000.

Now I am still able to play all games with high quality, I can wait a couple of more months.


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## Lionheart (Aug 11, 2020)

Firstly, welcome to TPU, also where are you from so I can get a better understanding of price/performance in your country.

2nd I noticed is you wanted to keep your PSU... Bequiets a good brand but 350W bronze is pushing it, I'd upgrade that before getting new parts but the problem is that PSU's have gone up in price & no to mention the lack of availability in some countries, just a consideration.

If your main thing is gaming, go Intel, a 10400F paired with a decent itx B460/H410 mobo will do the job, 16gb RAM kit 3000mhz from any respectable brand will suffice, you don't need to waste $$ on higher clocked RAM as Intel limits it to 2666/2933mhz on their budget boards, not sure if your CPU cooler will support LGA 1200 but the 10400F does come with Intel's "amazing" stock cooler anyways.

Like others have mentioned, yes you can go AMD & wait for their 4000 series, will have a better upgrade path most likely but hey, if you want your new PC now, I say just get it now, up to you. Hope this helps.


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## spudknife (Aug 11, 2020)

Lionheart said:


> Firstly, welcome to TPU, also where are you from so I can get a better understanding of price/performance in your country.
> 
> 2nd I noticed is you wanted to keep your PSU... Bequiets a good brand but 350W bronze is pushing it, I'd upgrade that before getting new parts but the problem is that PSU's have gone up in price & no to mention the lack of availability in some countries, just a consideration.
> 
> ...


Firstly, thank you all you answers.
I am from France but I can buy in Germany (cheaper).
Why should I change PSU gtx 1070 consume 150W peak and i5 10400f 160W peak so all system *peak* 310W.
About the cooler the socket 1200 don't have change the cooler compatibility (so far I know).


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## xman2007 (Aug 11, 2020)

It only provides 300w on the 12v rail which powers pretty much everything including gpu cpu motherboard drives etc and it's 8 years old, you're asking for big trouble running that unit with a 1070


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## spudknife (Aug 11, 2020)

xman2007 said:


> It only provides 300w on the 12v rail which powers pretty much everything including gpu cpu motherboard drives etc and it's 8 years old, you're asking for big trouble running that unit with a 1070


Thank you so I need more money 

I will wait 6 more months and buy a good PSU + the 400€ upgrade.


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## thebluebumblebee (Aug 11, 2020)

Lionheart said:


> If your main thing is gaming, go Intel, a 10400F paired with a decent itx *B460/H410* mobo will do the job


If you do that, you blow the chance to "OC" the non "K" CPU's.  Get a Z490 motherboard.



spudknife said:


> cpu : i5 10400F


Having the i5-10400 with the iGPU helps with troubleshooting and also some programs can use it as well.


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## Lionheart (Aug 11, 2020)

thebluebumblebee said:


> If you do that, you blow the chance to "OC" the non "K" CPU's.  Get a Z490 motherboard.
> 
> 
> Having the i5-10400 with the iGPU helps with troubleshooting and also some programs can use it as well.



Well yes but spudknife has a limited budget. hence why I mentioned the non K series, having the integrated Intel GPU is definitely handy but as before, was thinking of his budget, if he/she can get a well priced Z490 board, definitely go for it, Intel's non K CPU's boost with high clock speeds with a decent cooler anyways under certain loads.


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## spudknife (Aug 11, 2020)

What about this near 425€

Thanks you all again


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## thebluebumblebee (Aug 11, 2020)

Just curious, how much more for the i5-10400?


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## spudknife (Aug 11, 2020)

thebluebumblebee said:


> Just curious, how much more for the i5-10400?


20€ more


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## $ReaPeR$ (Aug 11, 2020)

Dude just get a b550 with a 3600. With your gpu is beyond pointless to buy anything higher. Also get a good PSU, I would go for a seasonic but they tend to be a bit pricey, so, Corsair should be fine, around 550 watts. That's it. Intel is worth it only if you go all in with a xx900k and a 2080ti, anything lower is not worth it because it's a dead platform, next Intel socket will be 1700 lga. At least with AMD you have the choice to go ryzen 3.





						AMD Ryzen 5 3600 4, 2GHz AM4 35MB Cache Wraith Stealth: Amazon.de: Computer & Zubehör
					

AMD Ryzen 5 3600 4, 2GHz AM4 35MB Cache Wraith Stealth - Kostenloser Versand ab 29€. Jetzt bei Amazon.de bestellen!



					www.amazon.de
				








						ASRock B550M-ITX/AC Mainboard mit AMD AM4 RyzenTM/Future AMD RyzenTM Prozessoren der 3. Generation: Amazon.de: Computer & Zubehör
					

ASRock B550M-ITX/AC Mainboard mit AMD AM4 RyzenTM/Future AMD RyzenTM Prozessoren der 3. Generation - Kostenloser Versand ab 29€. Jetzt bei Amazon.de bestellen!



					www.amazon.de
				








						Corsair CX550M PC-Netzteil: Amazon.de: Computer & Zubehör
					

Corsair CX550M PC-Netzteil (Teil-Modulares Kabelmanagement, 80 Plus Bronze, 550 Watt, EU) - Kostenloser Versand ab 29€. Jetzt bei Amazon.de bestellen!



					www.amazon.de


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## spudknife (Aug 11, 2020)

$ReaPeR$ said:


> Dude just get a b550 with a 3600. With your gpu is beyond pointless to buy anything higher. Also get a good PSU, I would go for a seasonic but they tend to be a bit pricey, so, Corsair should be fine, around 550 watts. That's it. Intel is worth it only if you go all in with a xx900k and a 2080ti, anything lower is not worth it because it's a dead platform, next Intel socket will be 1700 lga. At least with AMD you have the choice to go ryzen 3.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







Like this but 500€...


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## Lionheart (Aug 11, 2020)

Those Intel parts you listed seem perfect, as with the AMD parts, get rid of the Coolermaster AIO, the 3600 already comes with a stock cooler, it's adequate enough for that CPU, down the line you can buy a better cooler when you get more $$. The cost will be around 430, 5 more than the Intel build. 

Both builds look pretty good, up to you if you want bit more gaming performance now with Intel with a moderate upgrade path, (10cores 20 threads max unless Intel has future 11th gen support) or AMD with better productivity/multi-core price/performance & higher upgrade paths with slightly less gaming performance now + Ryzen 4000 series support, either way you go you'll get a great new PC out of it.


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## xman2007 (Aug 11, 2020)

Lionheart said:


> Those Intel parts you listed seem perfect, as with the AMD parts, get rid of the Coolermaster AIO, the 3600 already comes with a stock cooler, it's adequate enough for that CPU, down the line you can buy a better cooler when you get more $$. The cost will be around 430, 5 more than the Intel build.
> 
> Both builds look pretty good, up to you if you want bit more gaming performance now with Intel with a moderate upgrade path, (10cores 20 threads max unless Intel has future 11th gen support) or AMD with better productivity/multi-core price/performance & higher upgrade paths with slightly less gaming performance now + Ryzen 4000 series support, either way you go you'll get a great new PC out of it.


How you going to get better gaming performance with a gtx 1070 which the op has


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## spudknife (Aug 11, 2020)

Thanks you again I am going to sleep and tomorow I will take one between the 2.


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## Lionheart (Aug 11, 2020)

xman2007 said:


> How you going to get better gaming performance with a gtx 1070 which the op has



Sigh... Cause Intel is still better at gaming than AMD, why else.


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## xman2007 (Aug 11, 2020)

Lionheart said:


> Sigh... Cause Intel is still better at gaming than AMD, why else.


1070 is a mediocre GPU now, it's only slightly ahead of RX 580 these days and likely matched within 5% by a meagre RX 590, mid range GPU, you will see little benefit of Intel vs AMD at 1080p and above, now if you're talking about 2070/2080/ti then yes, intel is stil best for gaming with 10% FPS more when you're chugging out 120+ FPS @1080p unless of course you go to 1440p/4k then their lead is pretty much non existant but please carry on with your narrative

Only in certain scenarios with high end GPU's 720p/1080p is Intel marginally faster than AMD at gaming, if you're talking about mid-range GPU's and 3600/10400 class CPU's then there is little in it, at least not enough to warrant choosing one or the other is my point.


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## Lionheart (Aug 12, 2020)

xman2007 said:


> 1070 is a mediocre GPU now, it's only slightly ahead of RX 580 these days and likely matched within 5% by a meagre RX 590, mid range GPU, you will see little benefit of Intel vs AMD at 1080p and above, now if you're talking about 2070/2080/ti then yes, intel is stil best for gaming with 10% FPS more when you're chugging out 120+ FPS @1080p unless of course you go to 1440p/4k then their lead is pretty much non existant but please carry on with your narrative
> 
> Only in certain scenarios with high end GPU's 720p/1080p is Intel marginally faster than AMD at gaming, if you're talking about mid-range GPU's and 3600/10400 class CPU's then there is little in it, at least not enough to warrant choosing one or the other is my point.



Yes I agree but I was referring in the most basic/general terms.


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## AsRock (Aug 12, 2020)

spudknife said:


> I will also be able to upgarde to zen 3 architecture 4XXX, that is why I am asking advice.
> 
> On one hand i5 10400f good performance upgrade and on the other ryzen 3 3100x weak performance upgrade but nice upgrade in the future (zen 3).



This is why i think you be better of just waiting until that comes out, then the money you got extra can get you a even better CPU.  A 25k and a 1070 should be doing alright still even more so at the resolution your playing with.


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## spudknife (Aug 12, 2020)

AsRock said:


> This is why i think you be better of just waiting until that comes out, then the money you got extra can get you a even better CPU.  A 25k and a 1070 should be doing alright still even more so at the resolution your playing with.


Yes with my current rig I am able to play all my games (hitman 2, the witcher 3, red dead 2, ....) with 50fps or above with hight/ultra settings.
If I consider this no upgrade is needed, and I am only playing games. My idea was to upgrade firstly my CPU and after the GPU.
I can also buy an xeon e3 1270 v2 (4c/8T with 200Mhz more than i5 2500k) for 50€, and wait to see some games that I am not able to play with good fps and settings and than buy a full new rig (CPU + GPU).


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## Vya Domus (Aug 12, 2020)

spudknife said:


> I agree have you any advice ?
> 
> The main issue with Intel mb, you need a z490 chipset to achieve the full cpu performance (ram speed).



I would wait for the 3300X to become available or buy a 3600, otherwise you are locking yourself to a platform that will limit performance and upgradability probably as well.



spudknife said:


> I can also buy an xeon e3 1270 v2 (4c/8T with 200Mhz more than i5 2500k) for 50€



Don't, it's a waste of money.


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## spudknife (Aug 12, 2020)

Vya Domus said:


> I would wait for the 3300X to become available or buy a 3600, otherwise you are locking yourself to a platform that will limit performance and upgradability probably as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't, it's a waste of money.


it was my first goal to buy 3300x but not available


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## Vya Domus (Aug 12, 2020)

spudknife said:


> it was my first goal to buy 3300x but not available



My advice is to go for a 3600 and skip the AIO, the stock fan is fine. If you think it's not you can buy one later.

Also definitely upgrade the PSU.


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## spudknife (Aug 12, 2020)

Thanks you all again, I take this decision : I buy nothing I will wait for zen 3 architecture.


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## kayjay010101 (Aug 12, 2020)

spudknife said:


> View attachment 165295
> 
> Like this but 500€...


Why do you include a watercooler with the AMD build but not the Intel build? That seems like it's totally backwards. The Intel build is the one that needs an aftermarket cooler (the included cooler is very bad), but for the AMD build I'd just go with the included one, it's very good for being free. It seems a bit unfair to tack on something that won't do anything to inflate the price of the AMD build. 

Seems to me that the 3600 build is about €430 (taking away the cost of the AIO and going off the total as provided in your picture here), while the Intel build is €370 without a cooler and PSU (as per the initial post), so adding another €40-60 for the cost of the cooler (that you need, again the stock cooler for the Intel chips is very bad), an danother €60 for the PSU, the Intel one is more expensive. So in your case, I'd go AMD every day. Much better upgrade path, and as it turns out, cheaper.


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## steen (Aug 12, 2020)

spudknife said:


> I can also buy an xeon e3 1270 v2 (4c/8T with 200Mhz more than i5 2500k) for 50€


I agree with @Vya Domus. Don't. I nabbed some used 2700X/X370 gear to upgrade the kids W3680/X58 systems & even these Zen+ are miles better than my OC 3770k/Z77 setups. At this point, I'd wait til the new CPU/GPU releases.

Edit: 





spudknife said:


> Thanks you all again, I take this decision : I buy nothing I will wait for zen 3 architecture.


Smart move.


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## spudknife (Aug 12, 2020)

kayjay010101 said:


> Why do you include a watercooler with the AMD build but not the Intel build? That seems like it's totally backwards. The Intel build is the one that needs an aftermarket cooler (the included cooler is very bad), but for the AMD build I'd just go with the included one, it's very good for being free. It seems a bit unfair to tack on something that won't do anything to inflate the price of the AMD build.
> 
> Seems to me that the 3600 build is about €430 (taking away the cost of the AIO and going off the total as provided in your picture here), while the Intel build is €370 without a cooler and PSU (as per the initial post), so adding another €40-60 for the cost of the cooler (that you need, again the stock cooler for the Intel chips is very bad), an danother €60 for the PSU, the Intel one is more expensive. So in your case, I'd go AMD every day. Much better upgrade path, and as it turns out, cheaper.


Just for information I have already a watercooler enermax LiqTech ELC-LT120X-HP (not AM4 compatible) , that it was I need to buy one if I go AMD.

Thanks you all again, I take this decision : I buy nothing I will wait for zen 3 architecture.


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## kayjay010101 (Aug 12, 2020)

spudknife said:


> Just for information I have already a watercooler enermax LiqTech ELC-LT120X-HP (not AM4 compatible) , that it was I need to buy one if I go AMD.


I see, that's fair then. 
Still, the AMD stock cooler is actually pretty decent so buying a liquid cooler isn't exactly necessary.


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## spudknife (Aug 12, 2020)

In conclusion the i5 2500k is a legendary CPU 



kayjay010101 said:


> I see, that's fair then.
> Still, the AMD stock cooler is actually pretty decent so buying a liquid cooler isn't exactly necessary.


I have an issue with this because my rig is in a shelf so I need to be able to push the air in front of my case.


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## NeoLights (Aug 12, 2020)

If you are a gamer, i5 Intel 2500K is better.


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## xman2007 (Aug 12, 2020)

NeoLights said:


> If you are a gamer, i5 Intel 2500K is better.


Than what??


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## spudknife (Aug 12, 2020)

xman2007 said:


> Than what??


I have the same question ?


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## ppn (Aug 12, 2020)

that is not how it works, If you wait for zeN3, you have to wait for Rocket Lake also, and then wait for zeN4 and Alder lake And then decide, and then wait for zeN5 and Meteor Lake and decide. IPC improvements promise to be impressive every new generation. 2500K is self inflicted torture, been there done that, if you think it does the job then ok. DDr4 prices are pretty good right now, so can't stay the same forever. I wuold go for xeon V4.


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## spudknife (Aug 12, 2020)

ppn said:


> that is not how it works, If you wait for zeN3, you have to wait for Rocket Lake also, and then wait for zeN4 and Alder lake And then decide, and then wait for zeN5 and Meteor Lake and decide. IPC improvements promise to be impressive every new generation. 2500K is self inflicted torture, been there done that,


Yes with my current rig I am able to play all my games (hitman 2, the witcher 3, red dead 2, ....) with 50fps or above with hight/ultra settings so I can wait until bad performances... and than buy the best CPU for the money.
Have you any advice for xeon V4 ?


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## $ReaPeR$ (Aug 12, 2020)

spudknife said:


> View attachment 165295
> 
> Like this but 500€...


You really do not need water cooling. Use the money for a better mobo, PSU, RAM. If you really want after market cooling go for a noctua cooler.





						Noctua NH-U12S chromax.Black, 120mm Single-Tower CPU Kühler: Amazon.de: Computer & Zubehör
					

Noctua NH-U12S chromax.Black, 120mm Single-Tower CPU Kühler (Schwarz) - Kostenloser Versand ab 29€. Jetzt bei Amazon.de bestellen!



					www.amazon.de
				






spudknife said:


> Yes with my current rig I am able to play all my games (hitman 2, the witcher 3, red dead 2, ....) with 50fps or above with hight/ultra settings so I can wait until bad performances... and than buy the best CPU for the money.
> Have you any advice for xeon V4 ?


Xeons are for experienced users. If you don't like the hassle I would suggest you avoid xeons or epycs.


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## spudknife (Aug 12, 2020)

$ReaPeR$ said:


> You really do not need water cooling. Use the money for a better mobo, PSU, RAM. If you really want after market cooling go for a noctua cooler.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ty  you for the advice


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## $ReaPeR$ (Aug 12, 2020)

spudknife said:


> ty  you for the advice


You are welcome friend. Just bare in mind that efficiency is always better than bragging rights. And if you need help with building your system just ask.


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## spudknife (Aug 13, 2020)

Sorry but I can t stop thinking about the upgrade.
I find a MB that is 115x cooler compatible so no need to change the water cooling system.






What do you think ? Price is 470 €

I am concerned about the audible chipset fan of the MB -> asrock x570 phantom gaming-itx/tb3


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## kayjay010101 (Aug 13, 2020)

In my experience the X570 chipset fan is practically inaudible, and especially so when you take into account the noise from all the other fans in the system.
None of the X570 boards have a 115x mount, that's an intel socket standard. You'd need an AMD AM4 mount if you want to use the watercooler, maybe you got one with it?


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## Hemmingstamp (Aug 13, 2020)

spudknife said:


> Sorry but I can t stop thinking about the upgrade.
> I find a MB that is 115x cooler compatible so no need to change the water cooling system.
> 
> View attachment 165426
> ...



Search about Motherboard VRM's,  MSI has some of the best and can be cheaper than the one you have pictured.  I'm no phanboy of any brand BTW.
X570 will be a futureproof upgrade if you ever wanted to swap out that 3600 to the newer Ryzen CPU's that are coming.


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## lexluthermiester (Aug 13, 2020)

spudknife said:


> Sorry but I can t stop thinking about the upgrade.
> I find a MB that is 115x cooler compatible so no need to change the water cooling system.
> 
> View attachment 165426
> ...


Looks like a very solid setup and a huge upgrade from your current system. I would keep your other parts and reuse them. Your GTX1070 is a very good card still and doesn't really need upgrading. Your SSD's are good too. You might want to get a 1TB or 2TB HDD for mass storage, but that is only a suggestion.


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## spudknife (Aug 13, 2020)

kayjay010101 said:


> In my experience the X570 chipset fan is practically inaudible, and especially so when you take into account the noise from all the other fans in the system.
> None of the X570 boards have a 115x mount, that's an intel socket standard. You'd need an AMD AM4 mount if you want to use the watercooler, maybe you got one with it?











						AMD + ITX + TB3? It's the ASRock X570 Phantom Gaming-ITX/TB3 Motherboard Review
					






					www.anandtech.com
				



Look it has 115x mount



Hemmingstamp said:


> Search about Motherboard VRM's,  MSI has some of the best and can be cheaper than the one you have pictured.  I'm no phanboy of any brand BTW.
> X570 will be a futureproof upgrade if you ever wanted to swap out that 3600 to the newer Ryzen CPU's that are coming.


Ty some msi mb advice ? I need itx board and a cooler if not 115x mount.



lexluthermiester said:


> Looks like a very solid setup and a huge upgrade from your current system. I would keep your other parts and reuse them. You GTX1070 is a very good card still and doesn't really need upgrading. Your SSD's are good too. You might want to get a 1TB or 2TB HDD for mass storage, but that is only a suggestion.


Ty I will reuse them for a computer for my son.


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## Hemmingstamp (Aug 13, 2020)

spudknife said:


> AMD + ITX + TB3? It's the ASRock X570 Phantom Gaming-ITX/TB3 Motherboard Review
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Look at the ASRock board from other angles because it does have an AM4 cooling mount. (4 holes)
The 3600 stock cooler will suffice. No need for anything fancy unless you want to manually overclock your CPU.


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## kayjay010101 (Aug 13, 2020)

spudknife said:


> AMD + ITX + TB3? It's the ASRock X570 Phantom Gaming-ITX/TB3 Motherboard Review
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"_ASRock's decision is down to low profile cooling support. Low profile offerings on AM4 are a little lacklustre in comparison to Intel's current desktop mount. The idea is that users can use the ASRock X570 Phantom Gaming-ITX/TB3 with a low profile cooler in a smaller form factor mini-ITX chassis to save space. While the majority of users are questioning what the logic is behind this, this model is mini-ITX and as such, there aren't as many low profile coolers available on the market for AM4 as there are for LGA115x. Including an Intel mount on this smaller form factor AMD board improves cooler compatibility with some coolers_"
Wow, you're right. I was not aware that they did that. Ignore what I said then


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## spudknife (Aug 13, 2020)

kayjay010101 said:


> "_ASRock's decision is down to low profile cooling support. Low profile offerings on AM4 are a little lacklustre in comparison to Intel's current desktop mount. The idea is that users can use the ASRock X570 Phantom Gaming-ITX/TB3 with a low profile cooler in a smaller form factor mini-ITX chassis to save space. While the majority of users are questioning what the logic is behind this, this model is mini-ITX and as such, there aren't as many low profile coolers available on the market for AM4 as there are for LGA115x. Including an Intel mount on this smaller form factor AMD board improves cooler compatibility with some coolers_"
> Wow, you're right. I was not aware that they did that. Ignore what I said then


Nop


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## Hemmingstamp (Aug 13, 2020)

spudknife said:


> Nop



Do you have good case cooling to keep the evil killer heat at bay?


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## spudknife (Aug 13, 2020)

Also on asrock web site








						ASRock X570 Phantom Gaming-ITX/TB3
					

Supports AMD AM4 Socket Ryzen™ 2000, 3000, 4000 G-Series, 5000 and 5000 G-Series Desktop Processors; Intel Wi-Fi 6 802.11ax (2.4Gbps) + BT 5.2; Intel Gigabit LAN; Supports DDR4 4533+ (OC); 1 PCIe 4.0 x16; 7.1 CH HD Audio (Realtek ALC1220 Audio Codec); Supports Creative Sound Blaster™ Cinema 5; 4...




					www.asrock.com


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## Hemmingstamp (Aug 13, 2020)

spudknife said:


> Also on asrock web site
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Check out TPU's own review before deciding.








						ASRock X570 Phantom Gaming ITX/TB3 Review
					

With power hungry chipsets and powerful CPUs, the new X570 chipset has a slew of design challenges to overcome to squeeze the most out of the new platform. The ASRock X570 Phantom Gaming ITX/TB3 promises to harness that performance in a tiny Mini-ITX package.




					www.techpowerup.com


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## spudknife (Aug 13, 2020)

Hemmingstamp said:


> Do you have good case cooling to keep the evil killer heat at bay?


I have Cooler Master elite 130 (no case on it) and watercooling enermax LiqTech ELC-LT120X-HP. No other fan. The case is in a shelf.


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## Hemmingstamp (Aug 13, 2020)

spudknife said:


> I have Cooler Master elite 130 (no case on it) and watercooling enermax LiqTech ELC-LT120X-HP. No other fan. The case is in a shelf.



Good case, carry on 
I would have some airflow around that new hardware if possible though.


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## EarthDog (Aug 13, 2020)

I read the first page and gave up. Yikes. Hopefully the lot of you funneled this down...

At a high level... for that low arse res, intel. If you buy a k chip, get a z490 board. If you can't afford that combo, don't get a k chip and a more basic mobo. 3 pages..... oof.


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## Hemmingstamp (Aug 13, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> I read the first page and gave up. Yikes.



We're getting there.....


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## spudknife (Aug 13, 2020)

Ty all again for your time

Should I press buy ?


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## lexluthermiester (Aug 13, 2020)

Hemmingstamp said:


> We're getting there.....


I think they've got it nailed down.


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## EarthDog (Aug 13, 2020)

spudknife said:


> Should I press buy ?


If you want to leave performance on the table in favor of future upgrades. Absolutely. Either way, it will be a lot better than what you have. But so long as you are playing games on that very low resolution, the AMD will hold you back (yet still getting you 60 fps with the GPU mentioned) by double digit %. If that is OK, then you are all set.


xman2007 said:


> you will see little benefit of Intel vs AMD at 1080p and above,


Truth! But last I saw on the first page, the OP is running LOWER than 1080p. Did that change later in this thread?


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## spudknife (Aug 13, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> If you want to leave performance on the table in favor of future upgrades. Absolutely. Either way, it will be a lot better than what you have. But so long as you are playing games on that very low resolution, the AMD will hold you back (yet still getting you 60 fps with the GPU mentioned) by double digit %. If that is OK, then you are all set.
> Truth! But last I saw on the first page, the OP is running LOWER than 1080p. Did that change later in this thread?


Sorry but I don't understand this "But last I saw on the first page, the OP is running LOWER than 1080p. Did that change later in this thread?" (OP ?)


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## EarthDog (Aug 13, 2020)

spudknife said:


> Sorry but I don't understand this "But last I saw on the first page, the OP is running LOWER than 1080p. Did that change later in this thread?" (OP ?)


I knew I didn't want to pop this cork... lol

The resolution of your monitor is listed at 1680x1050 on the first page. This resolution is LOWER than 1080p and relies even more on the CPU.


EDIT: Either system will be fine. But so long as you are gaming at 1080p or less, you want higher clocks to get the most out of the GPU. Will you be fine either way? Yes. Just look at the chart on the first page for 720p results and see what you will be missing for the life of the system (until you upgrade your monitor to a non CPU heavy res).


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## spudknife (Aug 13, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> I knew I didn't want to pop this cork... lol
> 
> The resolution of your monitor is listed at 1680x1050 on the first page. This resolution is LOWER than 1080p and relies even more on the CPU.
> 
> ...


You mean better performance with intel (eg 10400f) with 1680x1050 ?

Will I see an improvement (not a small one) with the 3600 ?


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## ppn (Aug 13, 2020)

No if you are paying €205 for 570 motherboard might as well buy 10700F 8 -Core @ 4.6GHz + H410 @ 2933

ASRock H410M-ITX/ac €85
10400F €155 / 10700F €301


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## spudknife (Aug 13, 2020)

like this ?


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## EarthDog (Aug 13, 2020)

spudknife said:


> You mean better performance with intel (eg 10400f) with 1680x1050 ?
> 
> Will I see an improvement (not a small one) with the 3600 ?


Yes.

I've already stated you will see a significant improvement over your 2500K. Please keep up. 


EarthDog said:


> EDIT: Either system will be fine. But so long as you are gaming at 1080p or less, you want higher clocks to get the most out of the GPU. Will you be fine either way? Yes. Just look at the chart on the first page for 720p results


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## spudknife (Aug 13, 2020)

The 10700 have much better gaming performance and 8c/16t is better future proof than the 3600.

I will become mad few hours ago I will buy 3600 now 10700f ....


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## EarthDog (Aug 13, 2020)

You just need to make a choice and do it. You'll be happy with either.... as was said by myself and others several times.


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## kayjay010101 (Aug 13, 2020)

Keep in mind the H410 chipset limits the RAM speed to 2666MHz (your RAM is rated for 3200) which can result in a noticeable performance impact.


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## spudknife (Aug 13, 2020)

The only thing I lose with Intel is the zen 3 architecture but if I have a 10700f it will not be a big issue.


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## ppn (Aug 13, 2020)

H410 still needs one well placed fan above the CPU socket VRM. VRM are so tiny and probably less efficient and get hot.

2666,2933 in case of 10700F, 

Noticeable impact with 2080Ti and such. framerates above 100. Who plays with 100 FPS, I prefer better quality at 80-90


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## spudknife (Aug 13, 2020)

kayjay010101 said:


> Keep in mind the H410 chipset limits the RAM speed to 2666MHz (your RAM is rated for 3200) which can result in a noticeable performance impact.


no I think it is 2933


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## lexluthermiester (Aug 13, 2020)

spudknife said:


> no I think it is 2933


Mate, that Ryzen list you had a few posts ago is golden. Go with that as it a solid setup that leaves room for upgrades and some future-proofing.


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## spudknife (Aug 13, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Mate, that Ryzen list you had a few posts ago is golden. Go with that as it a solid setup that leaves room for upgrades and some future-proofing.


About zen 3 future proof in the best case every new generation improve ipc from 10 to 20% I am not sure i will beat 10700f


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## Hemmingstamp (Aug 13, 2020)

Still not there yet


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## lexluthermiester (Aug 13, 2020)

spudknife said:


> I am not sure i will beat 10700f


Don't worry about it. For gaming a GPU is vastly more important than a CPU for most games anyway. Worrying about the very slight difference you would experience between a Ryzen 3600 and an i7-10700f is like trying to put C3PO back together with bubble-gum(complete waste of time).


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## Hemmingstamp (Aug 13, 2020)

Just picked up a brand new Ryzen 5 3600 for 140 Sterlings because the box is damaged.  Winner!


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## xman2007 (Aug 13, 2020)

Hemmingstamp said:


> Just picked up a brand new Ryzen 5 3600 for 140 Sterlings because the box is damaged.  Winner!


Where from? I'll have to keep an eye out for one at that price it's one of the last upgrades I have planned


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## Hemmingstamp (Aug 13, 2020)

xman2007 said:


> Where from? I'll have to keep an eye out for one at that price it's one of the last upgrades I have planned



The Bay, Currys listings. Got the last one.


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## spudknife (Aug 13, 2020)

With 10700f I don t need any upgrade for 5 years at least


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## EarthDog (Aug 13, 2020)

spudknife said:


> With 10700f I don t need any upgrade for 5 years at least


Same with the AMD. The difference is ~10% more frames throughout (so long as you game at that low resolution - when you upgrade to 1080p or more that difference is negligible).

With AMD, you have an upgrade path to Zen 3. But, in five years, you'd be updating to 5 y.o technology with little improvements but more cores/threads. If that is how you work (keep rigs for a few/several years) and replace the guts, seems to me like the intel is the better choice, regardless if the difference is just under 10% in gaming.

EDIT: Note - here is 10700K (little differences in F)... note how it performs versus a 3700/3700x around your low resolution. That is ~15% difference.








						Intel Core i7-10700K Review - Unlocked and Loaded
					

The Core i7-10700K is Intel's second strongest overclockable Comet Lake CPU, with a powerful 8c/16t configuration. We saw pretty amazing tweaking potential from the 10700 non-K, so we'll definitely compare against that in the Core i7-10700K review, and of course against AMD's Ryzen 9 3900X.




					www.techpowerup.com


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## Hemmingstamp (Aug 13, 2020)

spudknife said:


> With 10700f I don t need any upgrade for 5 years at least



Is that your final answer? 

Just go with what you want.


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## EarthDog (Aug 13, 2020)

Hemmingstamp said:


> Is that your final answer?
> 
> Just go with what you want.


If we stop replying (me included) he may hit the buy button.


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## lexluthermiester (Aug 13, 2020)

spudknife said:


> With 10700f I don t need any upgrade for 5 years at least


That depends on your usage. With a Ryzen 3700x you wouldn't need to either, and you still save yourself a chunk of money.


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## ppn (Aug 13, 2020)

funny thing 4750G is cheaper than 3700X and 10700F it has on-die memory controller that makes it faster + integrated GFX to keep it going in between GPU upgrades. Combined with the soon to be released A520 itx (no 1151 holes) makes it perfect for HTPC. You really don't need the water cooling for 65 watt CPU.


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## spudknife (Aug 13, 2020)

Sorry but I insist with the watercooler my rig is in a closed shelf (i open the door when I play), I need to be able to blow the air in front of the case. And About the 3700x + watercooler still more money than 10700f and less performance.

So the winner is : 10700f (for me)

Thanks you all the TPU community


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## ppn (Aug 13, 2020)

Have you lost the AM4 brackets for the water cooling. Should be included.


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## spudknife (Aug 13, 2020)

enermax LiqTech ELC-LT120X-HP (not AM4 compatible), I ask enermax there is no AM4 brackets.


			https://www.enermaxeu.com/wp-content/uploads/Support/Discontinued-Products/Coolers/Dowloads/liqtech_datasheet_en.pdf
		


So the winner is : 10700f (for me)

Thread closed and ty 

I pressed buy  ^^


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