# AGP - X1950 Pro experiences



## Completely Bonkers (Feb 12, 2007)

There have been many posts on this site and other forums regarding problems people have been having with AGP X1950 Pro systems.  To help everyone ABOUT to making a buying decision (including me  ) could you please post your experience as follows:

1./ *Stable *or *Unstable*
2./ Brand of AGP - X1950 Pro
3./ Mainboard model
4./ PSU model and power rating

Thank you for everyone participating!

*Rules: AGP comments only. AGP X1950 GT and AGP XT comments also allowed here.*

****UPDATE********UPDATE********UPDATE********UPDATE********UPDATE****
It seems that the "early" boards had more problems than the current shipping boards. When posting, please, if you can, note the serial number or revision number of the PCB if there is one. Thanks!
**********************************************************************


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## spud107 (Feb 12, 2007)

got sapphire x1950 pro week ago n been working great,  not had any issues so far. . .


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## s4fun (Feb 13, 2007)

I voted unstable because I'm on my second x1950 pro. The powercolor x1950 pro was certainly unstable due to inadequte VRM cooling which they may have a fix for now with heatsink upgrades. Currently I'm running the HIS Iceq3 256M x1950 pro agp, and I can't say it is 100% stable because I've found ways to crash it, hang the system.


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## Completely Bonkers (Feb 13, 2007)

@-1, I thought the Powercolor came with an Artic Accelero Cooler: http://www.powercolor.com/global/main_product_detail.asp?id=137

Did your card look like this? If so... that's bad news for using Artic as an aftermarket cooler on X1950's


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## Zubasa (Feb 13, 2007)

Completely Bonkers said:


> @-1, I thought the Powercolor came with an Artic Accelero Cooler: http://www.powercolor.com/global/main_product_detail.asp?id=137
> 
> Did your card look like this? If so... that's bad news for using Artic as an aftermarket cooler on X1950's


He is talking about the cooling for the VRMs.


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## Completely Bonkers (Feb 13, 2007)

Do you mean small heatsinks around the voltage regulators? I'm not sure this would cause a stability issue. If the hypothesis that when the VRM gets hot, the supply voltage drops? Heatsinks would help stop a burnout... and complete failure of the VRM. But not sure this would have anything to do with artifacting/freezing.

I may be completely wrong... would like to learn: please post explanation.


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## s4fun (Feb 13, 2007)

The Arctic Cooler Accelero X2 is great. The IceQ3 is quiet, and it is quieter than the nVSilencer I had on my 6800gt. But the Accelero is even more silent than that. The temperature I'm getting with the IceQ3 and the Accelero at idle were all in the mid 30s celsius. Since I couldn't get the  powercolor to be stable at load, I can only report that withe Iceq3, I am getting in the mid 40's for games and mid 50's with the ATItool stress tests. All of which are lower temps and quieter than the 6800gt with an nVSilencer.

The bad news for the powercolor is that accelero as it was implemented by powercolor at that time was that there were no heat sinks on the VRMs like the way the Iceq3 has it. And that part gets hot enough to burn your hand if you insist on grabbing it when attempting to run 3dMark03. The powercolor often crashed just barely getting into the test with those B17s bombers for not barely 90 seconds into the test the VRMs were cooking real good.


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## tkpenalty (Feb 14, 2007)

Dude... the VRM unit isnt needed, I haven't seen it get hot.


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## richpb7 (Feb 14, 2007)

I just got an HIS 256Mb version - very happy, no issues as yet. It's quiet and fast and is a better replacement than the 7800 GS OC that died on me.

Got a new power supply for it, but only because I blew up my old one whilst mucking about inside the case (dumb ass!). Chose a Corsair 520 in the end, which is very quiet as well, and the modular design is fab. I'll never go back to a non-modular one again.

Other specs: Epox 8rda+, Barton 2500+ (o/c so running as a 3200+), 1Gb RAM


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## Ketxxx (Feb 15, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Dude... the VRM unit isnt needed, I haven't seen it get hot.




i have to agree, the VRMs dont get very hot at all on the X1950Pro, it may be needed on the X1950XT(X) models though.


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## s4fun (Feb 15, 2007)

Power color had to redo their VRM coolers, and even put a note on their specs about that on their website for the x1950 pro agp with the accelero X2. It doesn't get hot if has got proper cooling.


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## Ketxxx (Feb 15, 2007)

Sounds more like powercolour messed a bit too much with the reference design if u ask me, my card stays nice an cool, as do other 1950Pros ive seen in AGP form.


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## Completely Bonkers (Feb 16, 2007)

@-1, which brand is good for you... your spec profile names X1950 but no brand


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## micron (Feb 16, 2007)

s4fun said:


> The IceQ3 is quiet, and it is quieter than the nVSilencer I had on my 6800gt. But the Accelero is even more silent than that. .


The Accelero is unworthy compared to the IceQ3...and Accelero reviews across the web will show it to be a sub-par solution compared to other top coolers.


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## Zubasa (Feb 16, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Dude... the VRM unit isnt needed, I haven't seen it get hot.


They hardly feels warm.:shadedshu


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## s4fun (Feb 16, 2007)

Accelero is quieter, but it doesn't cool better. The issues is how quiet and how cool and what would you trade between the different solutions.


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## tkpenalty (Feb 16, 2007)

micron said:


> The Accelero is unworthy compared to the IceQ3...and Accelero reviews across the web will show it to be a sub-par solution compared to other top coolers.



Wtf? Can I have some of what you had this morning? The IceQIII Doesn't do better than the AcceleroX2. You have the "flock of sheep" intuition. When we talk about powercolor, we don't mean AcceleroX2. Got it? 

Across the web my ass, you probably saw one and went "OMG ACCELEROX2 SUCKS".


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## tkpenalty (Feb 17, 2007)

bonk? Wth does that mean?


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## Completely Bonkers (Feb 18, 2007)

What's the difference between bonking your head or bumping your head? Not much really. Bonk=bump. Bonk is a bit more active. Bump is a bit more passive.


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## tkpenalty (Feb 18, 2007)

Most people who get a X1950PRO think it will work perfectly fine with some generic PSU T_T.


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## lemonadesoda (Feb 21, 2007)

Current ratio 4/14 is not good, ie. 30% people having problems!


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## s4fun (Feb 22, 2007)

That is about consisent with the people that provide feedback for the various models of x1950 pro on Newegg. I suspect there were some bad components that got out to all the OEMs and manufacturers etc.


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## dashsmashed (Mar 8, 2007)

i'm running a saphire 512 AGP with an X2 - is good for me !! after a bit of fiddling...(a small issue I had with my old CRT)

I have to say that out of the box with no o/c it worked great.. I just wanted MORE!!!


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## Completely Bonkers (Mar 8, 2007)

****UPDATE********UPDATE********UPDATE********UPDA TE********UPDATE****
It seems that the "early" boards had more problems than the current shipping boards. When posting, please, if you can, note the serial number or revision number of the PCB if there is one. Thanks!
************************************************** ********************


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## DaComputerDude (Mar 16, 2007)

*HIS X1950 Pro AGP 512 Rev 2.0*

Hi All, 

This card HIS X1950 Pro IceQ3 Turbo Dual DL-DVI 512MB/AGP (Rev 2.0) has been running great for over a week - No Problems/crashes/artifacts - All good!! CAT 7.1 ATI Tool 631/1539

Temps 44c Idle 58c flat out! Fan rattles just a bit when running flat out. ATI 3D Rend. 860 FPS

Huge!! improvement in game performance at least 60% (GECUBE ATI 850XT PE) over what I was getting before. I would recommend this card. Can run all games with AA and AF plus turn on the lights/shadows etc now. Be mindful of the cards size though, it's a massive card, I had to relocate a hard drive to fit it in. You "MAY" also need the Molex 4x6 power cable if you have an older PSU. (*Came in the box)   

My specs. 
P4 Northwood 3.0 O/C 3.6
Asus P4C 800E D
1GB Hyper X 3500 DDR
Thermaltake PurePower Xaser Edition 480W/40 Amp 2x Fans  
2x WD Raptors 1x WD 7200
SB Live
BENQ 19" LCD (Max Res 1280x1024)

PS When the card arrived it was running at 587/1539.. Yet I had purchased the 620MHz version (V1.0) cant beleive how quick they changed the card from 1.0 to 2.0 It makes you wonder what was so wrong with Ver 1.0 that they changed it so quickly?? 

Cheers for now! LONG LIVE AGP! the guys with P4 3+MHz EE are going to love this card!!


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## Pum (Apr 5, 2007)

I recently got the AGP HIS X1950 256MB Pro ICEQ3 Turbo thingy, to support the Dell 3007WFP 30" 2560x1600 res monitor in my old system.  3Dmark06 and Aquamark ran fine.  Far Cry and Oblivion were crashing the graphics if I went over 1200x800 res.  My PSU was Antec 380W (18A on 12v rail).

so I replaced with Corsair HX520W (40A shared on triple 12v rails, nominally rated at 18A each).  Seems a little more stable, but still getting crashes if I go over 1200x800 in Far Cry or Oblivion 

X1950 is powered by single PCI-E 6 pin power connector from one rail on PSU.  I'll try changing that to the 2 molex into one PCI-E power lead I got, and connect each molex from a different PSU 12v rail.  

Also need to try clean re-install of ATI drivers.  Won't vote till I have checked out all possibilities.

System specs:
P4C Northwood 2.8GHz (OC 20% to 3.36GHz), Zalman CuAl cooler
1GB OZC dual channel DDR memory (FSB OC 20% to 960MHz)
Asus P4C800E-Deluxe mobo
Antec Sonata case
Corsair HX520W PSU
2 x HDD
1 x FDD
1 x DVD-ROM
1 x DVD-RW
HIS X1950 256MB AGP ICEQ3 Turbo
Dell 3007WFP monitor


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## DaComputerDude (Apr 6, 2007)

*His X1950 Agp*

What Revision is your HIS card? Ver 1.0 @620Mhz or Ver 2.0 @587Mhz?


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## Pum (Apr 6, 2007)

ATI Tool 0.27 is reporting:
Catalyst Version 7.3
Core 621MHz
Memory 742.5MHz
so i suppose it's Ver 1.0

Running the ATI Tool 3D View, temps max at 
X1950  62C
CPU  42C
Mobo  30C


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## Completely Bonkers (Apr 7, 2007)

DaComp. Could you do the following:

1./ Upload your v2.0 BIOS to this thread (and also cc W1zzard to upload to database)
2./ Post some pics of your card... so that v1.0 owners can see if there are any major differences or not

Thanks!


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## Pinchy (Apr 7, 2007)

The 1.0 probably had timing issues and such - nothing a BIOS flash cant fix


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## Pum (Apr 10, 2007)

Given that many others are reporting that they can play games at resolutions that crash my card, and I've upgraded my PSU to the Corsair HX520W which should be more than sufficient to run the card, I've requested an RMA replacement of my AGP HIS X1950 256MB Pro ICEQ3 Turbo from Overclockers.co.uk - but right now they show none in stock 

So if I get a replacement that works then my vote will be "unstable".


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## lemonadesoda (Apr 11, 2007)

As Pinchy said, a BIOS update will fix timing issues.

Hardware problems, e.g. poor components, signal paths, or cooling, a BIOS cannot fix.

Anyone with v2.0 BIOS upload here, and cc the W1zz


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## Pum (Apr 11, 2007)

The BIOS upgrade is tempting; if i was sure it would fix the card i would apply it.  However, if it is a hardware fault, and the BIOS flash does not work, I might not get the RMA approved, as they may consider that I had "tampered" with the card.

I notice that on the www.overclockers.co.uk, the 256MB and 512MB versions show different clock speeds for GPU and memory.  I wonder if the 256MB cards are v1 and the 512MB are v2?

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-071-HT&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=403
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-069-HT&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=403


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## DaComputerDude (Apr 11, 2007)

*HIS X1950 Pro AGP 512 Ver 2.0 - BIOS Upload*

OK I used RaBIT to save the BIOS... ....


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## Pum (Apr 11, 2007)

Indeed, where do I get an updated BIOS for the HIS card and how is it applied/installed?
Can't find anything on HIS website.


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## mullered07 (Apr 11, 2007)

DaComputerDude said:


> Hi All,
> 
> This card HIS X1950 Pro IceQ3 Turbo Dual DL-DVI 512MB/AGP (Rev 2.0) has been running great for over a week - No Problems/crashes/artifacts - All good!! CAT 7.1 ATI Tool 631/1539
> 
> Temps 44c Idle 58c flat out! Fan rattles just a bit when running flat out. ATI 3D Rend. 860 FPS



860fps ? i presume you mean in atitool and if so can anyone confirm this? sorry for the hijack i have a pci-e his x1950pro rev2? and get approx 550 fps in atitool 0.27


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## DaComputerDude (Apr 11, 2007)

Yes, ATI Tool V1.2.6.964 -

X1950 Pro AGP GPU Clock 620Mhz Mem 1540


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## lemonadesoda (Apr 11, 2007)

Pum said:


> I notice that on the www.overclockers.co.uk, the 256MB and 512MB versions show different clock speeds for GPU and memory.  I wonder if the 256MB cards are v1 and the 512MB are v2?
> 
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-071-HT&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=403
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-069-HT&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=403



Careful, there are V1.0 and V2.0 editions of BOTH the 256 and 512MB cards. See http://geizhals.at/deutschland/?fs=x1950+agp&in=

Check the product number/serial number carefully. ONLY buy the V2.0 version


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## Pum (Apr 30, 2007)

Well, I got the RMA replacement from Overclockers.co.uk - it is a v2 card.  Interestingly, the box says GPU 620Mhz / mem 1485Mhz on the side, but there is a sticker on the front that says GPU 587Mhz / mem 1540Mhz.  The old card was a v1.

I think it is working fine now.  I was occasionally getting green speckles on the screen, sometimes in 2D mode (eg: when watching movies).  This was like a few hundred single green pixels dotted randomly across the screen, and moving about.  They'd come and go - mostly weren't there.  I completely removed all the ATI drivers, Control Centre and Hydravision, ran DriverCleaner over it in safe mode, and reinstalled.  So far has been OK after re-install, but have yet to really test it thoroughly.


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## Completely Bonkers (Apr 30, 2007)

Thanks for sharing your experience. Don't forget to come back and update us with anything new.


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## Pum (May 14, 2007)

Well, it's me again!  After using the replacement HIS v2 card for 2 weeks (I'm not an intensive user) I've decided it too is duff.  It's better than the original HIS v1 card, which went majorly tits-ups when stressed in 3D mode, but it's not 100% working.  I'm still getting the green speckling / speckles.  They occur in 2D or 3D modes.  Very irritating when watching a movie - they are very conspicuous and distracting in dark areas of the screen.

I have contacted Overclockers about the problem and am waiting for a reply.  Another RMA, I guess.  I'd be happy with an alternative, but only thing like that Overclockers have is the 512MB Saphire.  I guess I'd pay the cost difference for it as replacement, if it works properly.  I'm getting pretty fed up with this.  I just want a card that works


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## Pum (May 16, 2007)

Well if anyones interested, Overclockers.co.uk issued another RMA straight off.  I suspect they've had lots of problems with the HIS cards and RMA them no arguments.  Whatever, well done Overclockers for good after sales service - based on my experiences with them I would recommend them to anyone.

So I stuck my original HIS X1950 Pro card back in my system to be going on with (Overclockers surprisingly returned it to me).  I runs fine in 2D mode, except for occasional green speckles.  In 3D mode, running Call of Juarez SP demo it crashed within 5 mins.  Then I installed ATI Tray Tools, and under clocked to GPU and memory by 20%.  Played CoJ for half an hour without crashing.  More extensive testing will reveal if this is a stable solution - could be a cheap upgrade for my other machine from ATI Radeon 9200SE !


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## wolf (May 16, 2007)

1./ Stable 
2./ Sapphire x1950pro 512 AGP
3./ Abit IC7-G
4./ Antec Trupower 550

oc at 607/1480 stock bios with Zalman Fatal1ty FC-ZV9

P4 Prescott 3.20 stock (hard to stable-ey oc)
2x512 Corsair 3200XLPRO

7800 05' 3dmarks

and,



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by DaComputerDude View Post
> Hi All,
> 
> ...



i agree, o/c i get 580-600 fps average.

i have a card with 1.1 ns memory too so any help towrds finding/making a bios for this card with 1.1 ns timings and clocks would be great.

cheers. wolf.


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## dweig@netdbq.com (May 24, 2007)

Okay-- here is my HIS X1950pro AGP experience-

Ordered from Newegg Rev 1 card in Feb- rec'd it and for about a week it seemed fine.   I had some game crashes, but since I was OC'ing- I didn't think much of it.  This card was 620/whatever mem speed.  
I got an RMA from HIS directly- they just sent me my replacement Rev 2 X1950pro AGP yesterday.   So far- NOT A SINGLE CRASH.   This card is factory clocked a bit slower- at 590 GPu- BUT after reading a review on Fudzilla ( http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=960&Itemid=40 ) where they are able to OC this rev 2 card to 641/837??!!  I decided to put this card to the test-

Running my 3.4 P4 EE at 3570- and running this card at 630/810(1620)- I am so far able to get this to run ati tool's benchmark and 3dmark03 with no crashes so far!  stock this card gets 15069 3dmarks in '03-  bumping it up to 630/810, I am getting 15545 marks.  So far- this Rev 2 card is a HUGE improvement over the Rev 1 card. ( I am not happy that it took 28 days after they rec'd the bad card to send the replacement, but it was worth it ).

HIS x1950pro IceQ turbo Rev 2 256 MB


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## manycheese (Oct 25, 2007)

*Unstable.*

hello ppl.

i bought a HIS ati Radeion x1950 Pro IceQ3 on tuesday.

its a Rev 2 one.

BUT it is unstable.

i think it may have something to do with my 430 watt psu.

a Antec NEO HE430GB 430W  to be exact.

is that definatly the problem?


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## dweig@netdbq.com (Oct 25, 2007)

*need more info*

It is quite possible that the 430 watt psu is not enough.. but it would also depend on what else its powering to determine whether it could be a likely culprit.

I am running the same card-- with a tv tuner-- sound card-- 2 GB ram- a power hungry Pentium 4- 2 hard disks and 2 optical drives-- and I only run a 500 watt Enermax Liberty.

Quality and efficiency of the PSU is also a factor.

Dave


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## Pum (Oct 25, 2007)

I ran this card off an Antec 380W PSU that was standard in my Sonata case.  I was also running a P4C overclocked 21%, 1GB of RAM, 2 HDD and 2 DVD drives.  I had problems and thought it might be the PSU, but when I upgraded to a good 520W PSU the problems remained - it was the card.

Your 430W PSU may be just adequate.  I think I found somewhere that this card pulls 110 watts, so you could add up the power draw of all the components in your system and calculate where your PSU stands.  I think the 450W requirement quoted is based on an assumption of an averagely highly configured system and an averagely low quality PSU.  I've certainly seen reports of systems working fine with under 400W PSUs.

I still get the minor green speckle problem with my third X1950 card - I reckon it's an incompatibility with my WinXP install or mobo BIOS.  One day I'll get around to a complete install.


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## tkpenalty (Oct 25, 2007)

Err... dweig. no. The Antec NEO HE 430W is capable of running two X1950PROs in Crossfire (but nobody does it). By no means it would be your PSU, the X1950PRO Ice Q Turbo AGP has many issues as many forum members pointed out. Some reason these HIS cards don't last very long and tend to have so many issues. 

I repeat, the NEO HE is more than capable of powering 1 X1950PRO... one X1950PRO + Typical setup will only give you 300W of Power usage on average. Send the card back to HIS, also use the 7.6 Drivers - DO NOT whatsover install 7.7, 7.8,7.9,7.10, known instability issues have been already discussed. 

(and don't bump ancient topics, and theres a clubhouse to discuss about the X1950PRO's problems, my sig).


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## peach1971 (Oct 25, 2007)

PowerColor X1950 Pro 256MB here.

Stable overall, had two VPU-Recover incidents though in CnC Tiberium Wars, playing VERY large custom maps (3 people + 3 bots). 
But this has turned out to be a driver bug. CAT 7.10 seems to have a fix.

Regarding the VRM temp:
I use an additional 80mm cooler for that, didn´t feel SO okay with ~109°C before 
Now <85°C load


The GPU/RAM Accelero X2 cooler itself is awesome.
GPU temp 35°C idle, <50°C load.


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## tkpenalty (Oct 25, 2007)

Haha... Powercolor's X1950PRO's VRMs really need cooling, AGP or not. (Come to my clubhouse... T_T). Seriously, I avoid gaming these days since i removed my intakes, they ran around 115*C O_O... then I installed the VRM plate on top of it, and it sort of cooled down, but still ran around 95*C at load.


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## twicksisted (Oct 25, 2007)

Hey Pum,

The X1950 is a seriously power hungry beast!
That corsair may not be up to the job of handling it well im afriad!
(and please no people jumping in telling me that they are running their 8800 cards off it fine as they do not have the same power requirements as these older cards do)

I know you think you have 40a in that power supply, but the reality is that you do not.
A multirailled unit will only supply a maxmimum of 18A per rail... this does not mean that if you have 2 rails it will supply 36A etc...
What this means, is that each rail has a limiter on it that wont allow it to exceed that amount.

I perviously had a sapphire X1950 pro... I had it on a 350W dell psu... which wouldnt even boot it up... anyways I did a lot of research on this an it was all about power.

I upgraded to an OCZ GameXstream 600W and it ran fine though I had crashes like you experiencing in the beginning.

It needed 2 molex power connectors and I plugged two in from the same rail at first. This is silly as that rail has a max of only 18A and the card needs a rail of minimum 30A.

After plugging these in from each seperate rail I was able to run perfectly stable.
Also a good power supply will run the card cooler!

try plugging in a molex from each of your two unused rails to the card... this will give it the most even power.... you say you have 3 rails... try and use the rails that do not have other peripherals plugged into it.

I have now stopped messing around and bought an Enermax Galaxy 1000W and what can I say! perfect


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## tkpenalty (Oct 25, 2007)

twicksisted, please re-evaluate your facts. I've installed an 8800GTS 320MB with a Coolermaster extremepower 430W, and you tell me that you need a 600W PSU just to run an X1950PRO? And where did "A multi railed PSU will only support 18A per rail" come from?

THe X1950PRO is by no means a power hungry card... example my system at full load only chews 300W of power. A system with a 8800GTS 320MB installed in my setup would only chew 340~350W. 

I'll explain why your X1950PRO didnt run with the dell, the Dell's with only 350W are obviously too weak, however the newer model with 370W are more than sufficient. Crashes? I would blame that on overheating. Moreover, you cannot "select rails"...

"and please no people jumping in telling me that they are running their 8800 cards off it fine as they do not have the same power requirements as these older cards do"

that means you basically become a facist . The fact remains that the G80s chew more power than a X1950PRO.


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## twicksisted (Oct 25, 2007)

X1950 is power hungry but what people fail to realise is that they need 30A on the 12v rail to run it... (8800series needs a reccomended minimum of 24a only).
I know exactely why it did not run with the dell and that is due to the fact that the dell has a maximum output on that old Dell PSU of 12A.. plain and simple... obvious. 

nvidias cards use less power than their ATI equivalents... You can underpower a card fine and in most cases it will work fine in 2D mode but will crash out and run hot in 3D... what also will eventually happen is a failure of the PSU and probably end up destroying your build because of it.. (good luck with that on the 430w).

Was just offering advice as I have owned and used all of these components... have had the same issues as he was experiencing and have fixed them through research, tech support forums and finding out what works for me... this is why I feel that I can advise here.

I seriously doubt that he has received duff cards (twice)... perhaps one could have been at fault but not two wehich is why I have posted..

Also in trying to fix my old issue with the same card, that corsair PSU was pointed out as not suitable to run with an X1950 pro (sapphire X1950 pro... not the overclocked HIS he has that uses even more juice)

he has three 12v rails on that PSU.... I offered he use a molex from different 12v cables from the psu into each of the cards slots... not from the same 12v line.. this is what i meant by different rails. I first used a molex from the same 12v line and this did not work even with my 600W OCZ. It would boot up to the OS fine... but would crash in 3D mode.

A single rail unit of 30A or more would be better in this case.

Power supplys from different manufacturers will be different... a 500W generic will definately not push out the same sustained amperage as a 500W pc power & cooling or enermax etc... this is a fact. The ratings on his PSU are MAX ratings and not sustained

_UPDATE from PC&C website :-

With all the hype about multiple 12-volt rails (ads claim that two rails is better than one, five is better than four, etc.), you’d think it was a better design. Unfortunately, it’s not!

Here are the facts: A large, single 12-volt rail (without a 240VA limit) can transfer 100% of the 12-volt output from the PSU to the computer, while a multi-rail 12-volt design has distribution losses of up to 30% of the power supply’s rating. Those losses occur because power literally gets “trapped” on under-utilized rails. For example, if the 12-volt rail that powers the CPU is rated for 17 amps and the CPU only uses 7A, the remaining 10A is unusable, since it is isolated from the rest of the system.

Since the maximum current from any one 12-volt rail of a multiple-rail PSU is limited to 20 amps (240VA / 12 volts = 20 amps), PCs with high-performance components that draw over 20 amps from the same rail are subject to over-current shutdowns. With power requirements for multiple processors and graphics cards continuing to grow, the multiple-rail design, with its 240VA limit per rail, is basically obsolete._

I made a tyypo with the multirailled unit being limited to 18a... i was supposed to put 20a


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## mrhuggles (Oct 25, 2007)

HIS x1950pro iceq3 turbo AGP, 587mhz core 770mhz ram, 100% stable [was baught as rev1 from newegg, obviously rev2 tho?] get this, antec 400w SL400, but its 23a on the 12v rail, not like it says on the website, dunno, it runs fine tho, if i put the card on 1 cable or 2, i put it on 2 just becuase, but it runs fine on only 1. whats with those cards anyways? it seems to me like they keep putting different ones out at different clocks? great card tho, it never gets above 60c under heavy load yay.

oops, 256mb video ram.


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## Morgoth (Oct 25, 2007)

x1950pro runned fine on my 250watt psu...


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## mrhuggles (Oct 25, 2007)

well then why does everybody say you need a million watt psu? i guess, the amperage on the 12v rail is more important? nice, then i guess oldschool but higher quality psu's are ok then


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## twicksisted (Oct 25, 2007)

its really not the wattage that important with high end gear... its the amperage that they receive and the quality of the PSU thats driving them...

Most PSU manufacturers use sneaky methods to display the Amp output of their units.
Most only display their maximum amp rating (not sustained) for each rail even though its impossible for all of the rails to run at that output simulatneously.

hey im not in here to start an arguement or upset any people.. The facts is that I have had this same issue before, with the same gear... i fixed it... thats all that important here.


Thats all that important to the thread starter, the dude with the issue... not a pissing contest becuase you think that a 250watt psu can run a X1950... i dont any helpfull suggestions besides trying to send it in again for a 3rd RMA


----------



## Morgoth (Oct 25, 2007)

> not a pissing contest becuase you think that a 250watt psu can run a X1950...


i dont think it does, IT does work on a 250watt psu i even got proof enough ppl here know me i runned around with a 250watt psu

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=39338&page=10


my old 250watt psu 


FSP group inc. Forton/source
Model number fsp250-60bt(12v)
max. output power 250w
DC output +3.3v-20.0a(org) +5v-25.0a(RED) +12V-13.0a(yel)
+5Vsb-2.0A(purp) -5v-0.3A(white) -12-0.8A(blue)
P.G singal (gray) Ground(black)
(+3.3V & +5V=150 max) (+3.3V & +12v=230wat max)

and its a heavy psu

and its getting soon its new owner  sold it for 15 euro and waiting for that guy to show up

i still got a 300watt that i toke out of my broken Pentium 2 XD


----------



## KennyT772 (Oct 25, 2007)

The reason for buying high end power supplys are more so because of the power output quality, and stability vs pure power. My flashy rig (link in sig) might make some thing I use all 700w in my system, truth is I usually don't pull over 300w from my wall socket. You might ask why I have a 700w psu then right? Well given how long power supplies last this one will see me through my next build totally, and I know it won't overheat, shutdown, randomly die, or explode killing my rig. 

If you have any other power supply related questions take them to the PSU Guide.


----------



## Widjaja (Oct 26, 2007)

Mine wasn't power hungry as I was running it off a 450W +12v/15a single rail generic at one stage.
Replaced it with my current PSU just to be on the safe side and for future proofing.
Seriously I think this "X1950's need a powerful PSU" came from the ATi site.
As the recommended PSU's in the list there are all pretty powerful.

Oh and it's been 100% stable, just plays some not very demanding games unexpectedly rubbish.
Not to say it plays other more demanding games exceptionally well.


----------



## Wile E (Oct 26, 2007)

twicksisted said:


> Hey Pum,
> 
> The X1950 is a seriously power hungry beast!
> That corsair may not be up to the job of handling it well im afriad!
> ...


His Corsair is more than enough to run the 1950Pro. I know somebody personally that has a 1950Pro Crossfire setup on that same exact psu. It does 40A combined on the 12v rails, and it behaves like a single rail psu. http://www.jonnyguru.com/review_details.php?id=28

The 1950Pro DOES NOT require 30A. That's an overly safe estimate that ATI makes, taking into account the load from the rest of the system, on a cheap psu, under worst case scenarios.

And you do realize that your PCP&C quotes are marketing material, right? Both single and multi-rail configs have their pros and cons. To believe that one is better than the other in every way is just naive.


----------



## tkpenalty (Oct 26, 2007)

As wile E said, 30A is for generic PSUs... even the quality of Generic PSUs are getting better, so that would be an outdated statement... 300W guys... for an average system with the X1950PRO installed.


----------



## Morgoth (Oct 26, 2007)

erocker said:


> I doubt it.  Esspecially if it was pushed hard.



totaly not  it wast to hot but it was kinda hot becus of small case and 1 80x80 + psu fan blowing air out with 140x140 blowing air in


----------



## Morgoth (Oct 26, 2007)

entire system its 7 years old


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## twicksisted (Oct 26, 2007)

erocker.. i wouldnt bother dude 
lol i tried to add my 2p aswell but everyone seems insistant that an X1950 dosent need power.... personally i dont care as now i have an HD2900 & galaxy 1000W psu...

aaah well, when their underpower PSU's that are overvolting break their systems theyll probably understand


----------



## Wile E (Oct 26, 2007)

twicksisted said:


> erocker.. i wouldnt bother dude
> lol i tried to add my 2p aswell but everyone seems insistant that an X1950 dosent need power.... personally i dont care as now i have an HD2900 & galaxy 1000W psu...
> 
> aaah well, when their underpower PSU's that are overvolting break their systems theyll probably understand


Nobody said the card is not power hungry, it's just not that power hungry. A corsair 520w psu is OVERKILL. Even it is completely unnecessary.

I'm sorry my friend, but it seems you have bought into marketing hype. As evidenced by the fact that you feel the need to buy a 1kW psu for a single 2900. I have a HD2900, and prior to this 3800+ I had a 6000+ (that I killed), and I overclock and overvolt everything. Runs perfectly on a Corsair 620w psu.

Yes, you offered our community your 2p, and it is appreciated, but unfortunately, your 2p are wrong, this time around.


----------



## twicksisted (Oct 26, 2007)

lol... that 1000w psu is so that i dont have to upgrade for many a year to come... i am getting another 2900pro to crossfire and i have 6 HDD's , 2 DVD r/w's... and what know else in the next couple of years

I havent bought into hype... i have had an issue with these old X1950's that i solved with power supply upgrade and through technical help from sapphire on the issue 

I was just offering advice to people with similar problems.

My OCZ 600W gamexstream pushed it fine... though it was multirail with 4X 18a rails... of which 38a was useable only in total


----------



## Wile E (Oct 26, 2007)

twicksisted said:


> lol... that 1000w psu is so that i dont have to upgrade for many a year to come... i am getting another 2900pro to crossfire and i have 6 HDD's , 2 DVD r/w's... and what know else in the next couple of years
> 
> I havent bought into hype... i have had an issue with these old X1950's that i solved with power supply upgrade and through technical help from sapphire on the issue
> 
> ...


See, there's the difference, the Corsair 520w does 40A total combined. It's essentially a rebadged Seasonic M12. So his problem was definitely not one of power issues.

And I have to apologize for my prior comment. In re-reading it, it sounds very harsh, but wasn't intended to be that way. Gonna try to make it sound better in an edit.

EDIT: Forgot to comment on the 1kw psu. If you bought it for future proofing reasons, it's perfectly understandable.


----------



## twicksisted (Oct 27, 2007)

hey no worries dude... i knew my opinion was not going to be popular 

...anything that makes people spend extra on something as boring as a PSU isnt going to be hehe  specially when it will work on an underpowered PSU for a short period of time till it breaks it.

I just learned the hard way and through trying out a lot of gear that i was gonna have to fork out on something that i later learned was the most important part of my system... its blood and veins if you look at it that way


----------



## tkpenalty (Oct 27, 2007)

Not underpowered... an Antec NEO HE 430W PSU doesnt even run warm with a X1950PRO installed, as I said, only using 300W of power. Get that in your head, the PSU has to fail sometime in the future, but this doesnt mean you will kill the PSU by running a X1950PRO with it. Say you run one 8800GTX well you're starting to push it, but if you calculate it, it is possible.


----------



## twicksisted (Oct 27, 2007)

ok... well im glad it works for you dude... i really am as you dont need to spend more cash.
thats great... but it diddnt work for me... and if you go to the Sapphire support forums.. it dosent work for thousands of other people... heres a link... read any of these posts:
http://www.sapphiretech.com/en/forums/search.php?searchid=1023510

this is where i figured it out through a little help from the tech dudes 
(that search string by the way was for "corsair 520w" just for interest sake... type in X1950 in the troubleshooting section and youll see that pretty much all issues with these cards are down to PSU being under 30a sustained aswell )

they strongly suggest that that psu is not strong enough and gives issues with most users..
Im personally amazed that your 430w does the job and does it well... i have never tried that brand and psu and hopefully wont need to with what i have now, but it is interesting that it does work.


----------



## Wile E (Oct 27, 2007)

twicksisted said:


> ok... well im glad it works for you dude... i really am as you dont need to spend more cash.
> thats great... but it diddnt work for me... and if you go to the Sapphire support forums.. it dosent work for thousands of other people... heres a link... read any of these posts:
> http://www.sapphiretech.com/en/forums/search.php?searchid=1023510
> 
> ...


But I'm telling you, the Corsair 520w has 40A combined on the 12v rails, and behaves like a single rail psu. Read the JonnyGuru link I posted. Even if those few people had problems with a Corsair psu, many more have not. A few bad units does not account for the whole line.

And the NeoHE 430w psu does 32A on the 12v lines, which is why it's more than sufficient for a 1950Pro.

And about those forums, after reading a few links, it seems to me that the general tech level of the people on those forums is lower than that of tpu. I will take a recommendation from here before that forum, any day.

Other stuff I saw over there: I get high pitched noises under very heavy loads, as was mentioned in a thread or 2, but it comes from my board, not my gfx card or psu. All voltages are confirmed by my multi tester to be in spec while under load, so it is not a psu problem.


----------



## twicksisted (Oct 27, 2007)

This is an interesting post from there thats a bit more specific and to the point... sorry i cant find the "quote" button in my reply but its below the dotted lines instead hehe



---------------------------------------------------------------------------







170W + 600W + 9.6W + 15W = 620 ?
140W + 480W + 9.6W + 15W = 520 ?

How misleading  It's actually 620-(170+9.6+15)=425.4w for 12v rails on the 620w unit. This leads to 425.4w / 12v = 35.45a which is enough on the table if this unit can really combine rails. 11.81a for each 3 rail which is ONLY good if a rail only serves the gfx card, nothing else. That's very unlikely, believe me.

It's worse on 520w unit. 520 - (140+9.6+15) = 355.4w and it's 355.4w / 12v = 29.66a for 12v rails. 9.8a for each 3 rail. And it may not even be the sustained(very important) but MAX/PEAK value which means nothing. Even if that unit can combine amps as it's supposed to, it comes short by a few amps. Those a few amps may lead to damage on the card or the psu.

Now, you must be careful about PSUs, because the companies are not always honest with the values or the unit can't live up to the specs. That's a fact, that's always been like this. The amps weren't an issue before because the gfx cards weren't powerful that much, they soon became wattage hungry and then amps hungry. So it's all about whether a unit can provide the rated specs or not. Even decent companies have crap PSUs but at least there're also ppl on internet that you can get info, advice about PSUs, because they just tried hundreds of combinations unlike regular home builders like us. And it's faster than formal ways most of the time.

One more thing. Almost every decent mobo has at least one thermo stick connection. Find one, put it inside the PSU of yours and plug it to the mobo. The default mobo application should show thermo stick temp. See if it's more than 50c or not. Because that 520&620 units are rated best under 50c. Heat is the main enemy of electronics, mostly for PSUs which will be less efficient.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

anyways, thats just one of the numerous posts that go on about that PSU and its suitability to the X1950 card

the whole thread can be found here:
http://www.sapphiretech.com/en/forums/showthread.php?t=14091&page=1&pp=10&highlight=corsair+520


----------



## Wile E (Oct 27, 2007)

twicksisted said:


> This is an interesting post from there thats a bit more specific and to the point... sorry i cant find the "quote" button in my reply but its below the dotted lines instead hehe
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sigh, here we go again. How do you know that the equation Corsair used to come up with the rating was as listed? That's speculation on the author's part. How about they underrated the specs.

Quit arguing with me and read the link I gave. They have been tested, and put out exactly what they claim on the 12v rails. Your link is wrong.

They are underrated from the factory


----------



## tkpenalty (Oct 27, 2007)

I have to agree with Wile E... the sapphire support tech forums members generally do not know much about IT, and have just started being an enthusiast. Twicksisted, sorry but you are being plainly pretentious now. The X1950PRO doesnt consume much power, 95W in fact at MOST. See my 600W iGreen PSU, i only use 50% of its potential since i have a 300W setup, do you get that? Sapphire's support forum is filled with many members who dont know much so you cant use them as a substantial basis. The X1950PRO by far isnt a power hungry card, do I have to repeat this more than three times? 

That green gecko, he doesnt know what he is on about (no offense to him if he reads this), and proves how low the tech level is, moreover, he has problems, doing what a moderator SHOULDNT, trying to persevere with incorrect statements. Honestly mate, we do a better job here supporting their products than they do! How Pretentious is he! Now, ask him how much power does an X1950PRO consume? I doubt he knows! 

EDIT: If corsair used their max ratings for their PSUs, they could be classified as being 700W units . Same with my PSU.


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## twicksisted (Oct 27, 2007)

ok i may be wrong here but according to this chart above in your link it was tested up to 522W and each rail only achieved 12A from that chart?

rail 2 & 3 are seperate from 1st according to this link you posted so you can basically use 24a max on those two... 

these are maximum figures (not sustained / continuous) and not how youd want to run your system 24/7


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## tkpenalty (Oct 27, 2007)

twicksisted said:


> ok i may be wrong here but according to this chart above in your link it was tested up to 522W and each rail only achieved 12A from that chart?
> 
> rail 2 & 3 are seperate from 1st according to this link you posted so you can basically use 24a max on those two...
> 
> these are maximum figures (not sustained / continuous) and not how youd want to run your system 24/7



Do you get what the ratings mean? It doesnt run 100% load 100% of the time. Anyway, this is way off topic, and what are you trying to argue? "Only" is an understatement.


----------



## manycheese (Oct 27, 2007)

*you lot are confusing me now *

I'm not sure who to believe...

but i have problem. i reccently bought a HIS x1950Pro IceQ3 AGP 512mb.
which has made my PC completely unstable.

i have a Antec 430 Watt psu(says it wants a 450). I had the card on its own 12v 16amp rail.
and it was still unstable.

so whats to blame?
Card or Psu?

i dont wanna send it back if its my psu's fault
or
buy a new psu to see its the cards fault


----------



## Wile E (Oct 27, 2007)

twicksisted said:


> ok i may be wrong here but according to this chart above in your link it was tested up to 522W and each rail only achieved 12A from that chart?
> 
> rail 2 & 3 are seperate from 1st according to this link you posted so you can basically use 24a max on those two...
> 
> these are maximum figures (not sustained / continuous) and not how youd want to run your system 24/7


He also loaded 2 different single rails with 30A each (at different times), with no repercussions. Actually read the text, instead of looking at just the pictures.


Also note that he loaded it to 12Ax3 on the 12v, for a total 12v load of 36A. Total output of 520w, for 15min, and the unit never went above 35C. That right there disproves the theory of it's rating on the Sapphire forums.

Now, take into account that the average 1950Pro system will NEVER draw 520w, and this unit is not being worked hard at all.

You can argue about this till you're blue in the face, but you are wrong. I'm sorry, but those are the facts.


----------



## Wile E (Oct 27, 2007)

manycheese said:


> I'm not sure who to believe...
> 
> but i have problem. i reccently bought a HIS x1950Pro IceQ3 AGP 512mb.
> which has made my PC completely unstable.
> ...


Which model of Antec? (What series?) Some are good, some are bad.


----------



## twicksisted (Oct 27, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Also note that he loaded it to 12Ax3 on the 12v, for a total 12v load of 36A. Total output of 520w, for 15min, and the unit never went above 35C.



i did read it ... no need to be rude 



> The "official" word from Corsair was the following:
> 
> 12V1: ATX 20+4, 4-pin +12V and 8-pin +12V
> 12V2: PCI-e 1 and first two peripheral connectors
> 12V3: PCI-e 2 and last three peripheral connectors




so they all share that 36A maximum actual value (not the 18a per rail as stated on the actual piece of kit! and far from the underestimated power output that you have stated they have)

besides that at 522w its only go access to a maximum..24A (12v2 & 12v3) and those rails are used for the HDD's DVD's etc...(12v1 is a seperate rail for the CPU Ram etc.. which has maximum 12a seperately according to corsair and stated in the review)


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## manycheese (Oct 27, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Which model of Antec? (What series?) Some are good, some are bad.



erm a Antec NEO HE430GB 430WATT Modular.


http://www.antec.com/Detail.bok?no=420


----------



## twicksisted (Oct 27, 2007)

anyways.. buy that psu and put it with a X1950... perhaps you wont be one of the hundreds of posts that i come across with constant issues... who knows...

anyways i think i have said what i needed to say and remained polite throughout 

i am new here and do like this forum so dont really want to piss too many people off...


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## tkpenalty (Oct 27, 2007)

manycheese said:


> erm a Antec NEO HE430GB 430WATT Modular.
> 
> 
> http://www.antec.com/Detail.bok?no=420



I'd think naturally its your card, HIS X1950PROs have too many problems... -.-


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## manycheese (Oct 27, 2007)

**

ahh okay ...
I hope you're right.

I'm gonna send it back to OverClockers.

see if their technical support team agree 

will post result!


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## Wile E (Oct 27, 2007)

manycheese said:


> erm a Antec NEO HE430GB 430WATT Modular.
> 
> 
> http://www.antec.com/Detail.bok?no=420


You may want to stop by the X1k~HD2k Clubhouse. You are not the only one having troubles with an HIS AGP card. It seems to be an HIS problem. Unless you have like 10HDs and fans, and a crapload of other periphials, your psu should not be overloaded.


----------



## Wile E (Oct 27, 2007)

twicksisted said:


> i did read it ... no need to be rude
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry, but you are frustrating me.

Nowhere in the article does it state 12A is the max. That's just how he choose to load it for stability and temperature testing, as it's easier to setup on his test machine.

Besides, the average 1950Pro system is not gonna draw 12A from 2 rails, prior to adding in the gfx card.

I'm sorry, but you are just wrong here. I really don't know any other way to put it. Start a thread here and ask others, if you doubt what I say.


----------



## manycheese (Oct 27, 2007)

nahh i dont. i even tried it with just hd and an optical drive...

didnt work


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## Wile E (Oct 27, 2007)

manycheese said:


> nahh i dont. i even tried it with just hd and an optical drive...
> 
> didnt work


Sounds more like a problem with the card to me. Like I said, many have complained of the HIS cards lately. Seems to be a lot of RMAs going on with them in this forum, atm.


----------



## rangerone766 (Oct 27, 2007)

twicksisted said:


> This is an interesting post from there thats a bit more specific and to the point... sorry i cant find the "quote" button in my reply but its below the dotted lines instead hehe
> 
> 
> 
> ...




i may be blind or dumb.
but why do 3 12volts rails at 18amps add up to 480 watts on one, and 600 watts on the other?


----------



## Wile E (Oct 27, 2007)

rangerone766 said:


> i may be blind or dumb.
> but why do 3 12volts rails at 18amps add up to 480 watts on one, and 600 watts on the other?



18A is all you are supposed to put on any single rail at one time. Once you go above 18A on a single rail, it's just supposed to trip the protection circuit in the psu. It's just a safety spec. No modular PSU is actually capable of maxing out all the 12v rails simultaneously. That's why you have to pay such close attention to the combined 12v rating.


----------



## rangerone766 (Oct 27, 2007)

btw my his x1950pro runs great. i had a few driver problems with the 7.8 and 7.9 cats but the 7.10's work great.

mine is the vanilla model with the single slot cooler. the ram overclocks great i can go over 800mhz, but the core craps out at anything over 621mhz.

i have a 470watt psu with
2x 74gig raptors in raid0
2x storage hd's
2x optical drives
1x pci raid card
1x pci sound card
1x pci tv tuner card
1x pci nic card
6x 120mm fams with led's
2x 1gig mem chips
1x prescott 3.0 oc'd @3.8


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## intel igent (Oct 27, 2007)

dont want to jack the thread BUT are there any people using the gecube 1950xt agp?

if so hows that working for ya?

could the O/P maybe add the xt's to the thread/poll?

thnx


----------



## Widjaja (Oct 27, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> That green gecko, he doesnt know what he is on about (no offense to him if he reads this), and proves how low the tech level is, moreover, he has problems, doing what a moderator SHOULDNT, trying to persevere with incorrect statements. Honestly mate, we do a better job here supporting their products than they do! How Pretentious is he! Now, ask him how much power does an X1950PRO consume? I doubt he knows!



Watchout I know there are staunch Sapphire forum users are around here.


----------



## Heyhoe (Oct 29, 2007)

Hi, my first post.

My system is old. mainly as i never got round to buying a new cpu.

Currently its

Athlon Xp2500 @ 2.3
2gb Geil 3200 dual channel 400
OCZ stealth xtreme 600w psu
Sapphire x1950 pro 512mb AGP
DFI lanparty mobo, cant even remember the model now. something like a nf2 ultra b or something. its discontinued.

i mainly play race sims and CSS.

I used to have an unlocked asus 6800 128mb. But i wanted to try and get a bit more out my machine so i bought the PSU, the 2 gig of ram and the GPU.

And to be honest ive not really seen a massive performace gain at all.

So i took the plunge and have invested even more money into this damn machine. lol

Bought an asrock AGP mobo socket AM2 with an AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 6000+ and cooler.

Do you think i can expect to see a performace increase over the old 2500???

Thanks in advance


----------



## twicksisted (Oct 29, 2007)

Yeah definately 
I had mine on a 3ghz P4 with 2GB ddr400.... was fine but the CPU slowed me down a lot.

Got an asrock board and upgraded to a c2d E6600 and major difference... 
since then upgraded again and thats also been a huge difference.


----------



## Heyhoe (Oct 29, 2007)

Great, thanks for the speedy reply.

Apprently the E6600 is almost the same as the 6000+ so going from an old 2500 i should see a decent improvement.

Coming from overclockers UK on wednesday so il have to run a few benchmarks to see how it goes.


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## twicksisted (Oct 29, 2007)

nice... yeah youll be sweet...
I found games on the X1950 a bit laggy in 1440X900 on the P4 3ghz... but on the c2d E6600 it was smooth and really was able to max the card out nicely and get good framerates...
Also turn up other goodies like high quality sound etc..


----------



## Heyhoe (Oct 29, 2007)

DOH!

Just realised that the mobo i bought is DDR2 making my memory useless. paid £100 for it too.

This ddr2 stuff was loads cheaper, yet faster.... :S

stupid me.


----------



## Widjaja (Oct 30, 2007)

If it's one of those AsRock Dual VSTA motherboards, it should be able to use the DDR400 until you get some faster ram.


----------



## intel igent (Oct 30, 2007)

intel igent said:


> dont want to jack the thread BUT are there any people using the gecube 1950xt agp?
> 
> if so hows that working for ya?
> 
> ...



anyone?


----------



## madd (Oct 31, 2007)

I'm not sure how "power hungry" is this card 
I have a Sapphire x1950 PRO 256 MB, and for about 4-5 months I have not experienced any problems at all. The card is very stable with a Fortron ATX-350GTF power supply. The only drawback is the stock cooler which is very noisy when the card is at load and at the same time the temp of the GPU reaches about 80-85C at full load!!!

I'm considering to buy an Arctic Accelero X2, but I've red about the issue with the cooling of the VRM's. Unfortunately the Accelero that's on the market in my country is an old batch or something and does not include the "Voltage Regulator Heat Spreader" thingy  So, can anyone tell me, is it a problem if I put the Accelero without this plate fot the VRM's? Do they run very hot, because I can't check this without removing the stock cooler..


----------



## Widjaja (Nov 1, 2007)

Sounds like you have the rev 1 Sapphire model which does normally run that hot with insufficent case cooling.
My Sapphire X1950pro runs 76-82 deg max load and yes the fan does start to make noise at those temps but the other fans do drown it out.
It's very important to have heat spreders over the VRMs becuase they do get very hot.
I think you can get the heat spreader separately.


----------



## madd (Nov 1, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> Sounds like you have the rev 1 Sapphire model which does normally run that hot with insufficent case cooling.
> My Sapphire X1950pro runs 76-82 deg max load and yes the fan does start to make noise at those temps but the other fans do drown it out.
> It's very important to have heat spreders over the VRMs becuase they do get very hot.
> I think you can get the heat spreader separately.



10x for the quick reply  Yeah, I've red the posts on the forum and it's seems that the VRM's can be cooled with a separate RAM heatsinks on each VRM. If I can't find the heat spreader, I'll buy a pack of those Zalman RAM heatsinks and hopefully they will do the job


----------



## Widjaja (Nov 2, 2007)

No probs.

VRMS were placed on these cards instead of having capacitors.
You will see 4 little holes around that area where a VRM heat spreader can just screw in even though you are currently using the Sapphire reference cooler.

Have a chat over at the HD2K clubhouse, the users there are more than happy to help you out with what would be the best cooling solution for your VRMs and I'm pretty sure one of the guys has installed a Zalman VGA cooler with the heatsinks your'e talking about.
There is a pic of it on the first page iirc. . .


----------



## The_Gunslinger (Nov 4, 2007)

ok, first post here ... so be gentle.

i've read through most of this thread fairly carefully, and there is definitely 2 different trains of thought when it comes to the power needs of these cards.

here's my system specs, and experiences with my card (His x1950 Pro Turbo v2 - AGP)

Athlon64 +3700 (754 skt)
Arctic Freezer 64 Pro cooler
Gigabyte GA-K8NSNXP
4 Seagate 16mb cache drives (2xSATA 2xIDE)
1 more Seagate IDE drive in a icy-dock removable caddy
Plextor 716SA
Plextor 608AL
NEC 7543A
HiS x1950 Pro - AGP
PSU - Corsair 620W
Monito DELL 2707wfp

I purchased the x1950 v2 from overclockers uk some time ago, and initially had no problems, at the time i was running an Antec Neo HE500 PSU, then within 3 weeks poof! no more switch on, no warning nothing, worked fine on shut down, at the time i was doing some cleaning in the case, and re-seating the RAM afterwards, so i figured i'd pressed to hard and killed something on the mobo, so after swapping everything out and still getting no boot i replaced the mobo, still nothing, the only thing i could think of was that the PSU was dead - but i had tested with another and nothing else connected and it still didnt work, so i took the plunge and ordered a new PSU as i had no way to fully test the old one, turns out that was the problem, and the 380W generic i had tested it with was not even man enough to boot the pc with this card in it !!

Dabs replaced the PSU no problem, it was still within the warranty ... just, and had ran all that time with no problems.

when searching for a replacement i did the research on the requirements and was also surprised to read the amperage requirements for the card, and wondered if that had contributed to the PSU's early demise. I settled on the Corsair unit for a number of reasons, including it's tested stability, power consumption, and it's ability to behave like a single rail unit if overloaded on one of the rails. At the time i did not have the money for a PC P&C unit.
This Corsair unit has run flawlessly in my system now for a few months, and the card is running perfectly, a little warmer than i would like but still good, no artifacts and plays movies very very well, driving the 27" LCD very nicely at 1920x1200

so - did the x1950 help to the early demise of the PSU - possibly, but i guess i'll never know for sure, but i am looking to replace the Corsair with a PC P&C Silencer 750 shortly with a planned upgrade because i dont like it's cooling configuration in the Antec case layout (which i'm about to swap for a P182)


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## Bri5150 (Nov 4, 2007)

*VisionTek x1950*

Couldn't play BioShock with my old 9800XT so I picked up a VisionTek X1950Pro AGP 256MB DDR3 card to get my system thru a few more months.  Picked it up at BestBuy for $189 about a month ago.

ASUS P4C800-E
Pent 3.4 @ 3.56
4Gig 4000DDR Mem
Antec 600Watt PS
WD Raptor Drives

X1950 Pro AGP running ATI Tray Tools 
GPU 614.25
MEM 729.00
100% Stable....

I picked up a 2 fan cooling card that fits next to the video card just for the hell of it.

I'm going to wait about 90 days and see how the X48 MB's are and build a $4000 system (less monitor,KB,Mouse,Speakers)


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## Widjaja (Nov 5, 2007)

The_Gunslinger said:


> so - did the x1950 help to the early demise of the PSU - possibly, but i guess i'll never know for sure, but i am looking to replace the Corsair with a PC P&C Silencer 750 shortly with a planned upgrade because i dont like it's cooling configuration in the Antec case layout (which i'm about to swap for a P182)



Welcome to TPU. . . .

If the GPU was the last piece of hardware to be installed into your system and then the PSU died then yes.
At cold boot power gets seriously sucked out from a PSU for the first few moment and may have burnt out a worn/faulty component in your PSU causing the smoke and death.

My mates PSU did this a couple of weeks ago but it was a generic job.
He used to have his PC on nearly 24/7.
He's currently using another generic which I think is weaker and is starting to make odd noises but thats his own problem.


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## The_Gunslinger (Nov 5, 2007)

thank you,

and yes it was the last piece i changed/fitted.

PSU didnt die immediately after fitting the x1950, and to be honest it was not the first thing i suspected, and i was very lucky in the way it went, it took nothing else at all with it


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## Widjaja (Nov 5, 2007)

Halfway decent PSU should have some sort of fail safe circuitry which is supposed to stop it from frying hardware.

Quite a while ago I tried running my card with a 450W Generic PSU with +12v/15a on a single rail and it held up fine.
But out of safety I had to change it to something else just incase it did decide to pack it in somewhere down the track.


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## manycheese (Nov 22, 2007)

*HIS ati Radeion x1950 Pro IceQ3 return*

well i had to return my HIS ati Radeion x1950 Pro IceQ3 512mb

tbh a very dodgy card.

gonna get a sahppire one instead...

maybe it'll work better


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## InnocentCriminal (Nov 22, 2007)

Looks like these cards are rather hit and miss - mine however seems to be perfectly fine (driver permitting). I'm also running mine of a Shuttle 240W, as you can see from my system specs. The only real issues I've been having are the amount of noise created by the fan and the recent drivers from ATi. 

Other than that, the card is one of the best things I've ever bought and it powers my games at 1680 x 1050 perfectly. I'm just hoping the upcoming 3850 will be able to give me the same sort of price to performance ratio this has. I also look forward to watercooling it too. 

^^


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## Widjaja (Nov 22, 2007)

manycheese said:


> well i had to return my HIS ati Radeion x1950 Pro IceQ3 512mb
> 
> tbh a very dodgy card.
> 
> ...



Can say my Sapphire X1950pro is still going strong.
Played at least 8hrs straight of Bioshock which heats up the system.

Nearly finished the game, only bought it yesterday.

The games good enough to go through again though.


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## rodneyhchef (Nov 23, 2007)

Had no problems with my sapphire X1950 even though I've overclocked it loads.


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## Makaveli (Nov 24, 2007)

I have a Sapphire X1950Pro 512mb, Runs great, however the first thing I did was replace the stock POS cooler. My load temps don't break 55c now.


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## Widjaja (Nov 24, 2007)

Makaveli said:


> I have a Sapphire X1950Pro 512mb, Runs great, however the first thing I did was replace the stock POS cooler. My load temps don't break 55c now.



I think the cooler is its only fault.
Just cleaned out the caked on dust out of my PC.

The card now runs at 79deg max with stock cooler in GPU intensive games.


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## rodneyhchef (Nov 24, 2007)

If you install ATI tray tools you can adjust it so the fan goes up to 100% as soon as you play a game, mine would idle at 50-60°C at 50% fan speed but in a game with the fan on 100% it wouldnt get to 70. So it is quite effective when fully utilised (if a little noisy!) the temperature vs fan speed control in the bios doesnt do it justice.


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## intel igent (Nov 24, 2007)

intel igent said:


> dont want to jack the thread BUT are there any people using the gecube 1950xt agp?
> 
> if so hows that working for ya?
> 
> ...



ill try again


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## kreaturekodeyellow (Nov 26, 2007)

dashsmashed said:


> i'm running a saphire 512 AGP with an X2 - is good for me !! after a bit of fiddling...(a small issue I had with my old CRT)
> 
> I have to say that out of the box with no o/c it worked great.. I just wanted MORE!!!



ULTRA 550W X2-Connect Power Supply? Does that PSU actually run this card when the card is  at full load?


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## Widjaja (Nov 27, 2007)

kreaturekodeyellow said:


> ULTRA 550W X2-Connect Power Supply? Does that PSU actually run this card when the card is  at full load?




Here we go again with the PSU +12v amperage.

For X1950pro's 450W +12v/30a on a single rail or +12/V20a on dual rail PSUs.
But these are over exaggerated statements from ATi which are recommended with fully loaded systems in mind.

I'm using a PSU with +12V/18a dual rails and it runs without a hitch.

Hell I was using a 450W PSU with +12/15a rail to run the system at one stage.
But to be safe I had to buy a quality PSU.


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## Makaveli (Nov 30, 2007)

i run my Card with a X2 cooler but the sticky pads on the VRM heat spreader suck and it fell off. So i've been running it without. I've had the card running at 620/730 for hours and no issues. I will eventually epoxy the heat speader but for me I've had no issues. I also have very good airflow in my case tho which helps.


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## spud107 (Nov 30, 2007)

noooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! paste em back on quick, the vrm's are slowly cooking. . . 
they dont cut out till 125c


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## Makaveli (Nov 30, 2007)

The_Gunslinger said:


> ok, first post here ... so be gentle.
> 
> i've read through most of this thread fairly carefully, and there is definitely 2 different trains of thought when it comes to the power needs of these cards.
> 
> ...



You actually find games playable at 1920x1200 on a X1950Pro?

I can get a used Samsung 27` for like $699 which is a very good deal. However I know my videocard won't be pushing the frame rate I require for it to be smooth. From all the reviews i've seen you need a GTX level card to really have that res comfortable for the majority of games out. I know HL2 and say Team Fortress 2 will be playable on X1950pro because they scale well with older hardware. However new games like bioshock, the new medal of honor will surely tank at that res on this card.


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## Makaveli (Nov 30, 2007)

spud107 said:


> noooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! paste em back on quick, the vrm's are slowly cooking. . .
> they dont cut out till 125c



Paste them back on with what? I don't have the epoxy yet. I've been running it without the VRM heatspeaker for like 3 months already and no issues. As I said the airflow in my case is good there is a fan on the window blowing air directly on the card.

I would have epoxy'd it sooner, but none of the local shops carry it so I have to order it online.

Also with my card never breaking 55c while overclocked I seriously doubt they are getting that hot.


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## spud107 (Nov 30, 2007)

with this hs they still run about 47-50c under load, plenty airflow here too, 250mm fan next to the card,






jus dont wanna see your card fry,


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## Makaveli (Nov 30, 2007)

spud107 said:


> with this hs they still run about 47-50c under load, plenty airflow here too, 250mm fan next to the card,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And thanks for the feedback 

I will get around to the epoxy soon. I bought a Asus A8N32 SLI Deluxe so I can go PCI E. Will be buying either a 8800GT or 3870 when I can find one in stock. So even if I lost the card, its soon to be replaced.


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## Widjaja (Dec 1, 2007)

Makaveli said:


> i run my Card with a X2 cooler but the sticky pads on the VRM heat spreader suck and it fell off. So i've been running it without. I've had the card running at 620/730 for hours and no issues. I will eventually epoxy the heat speader but for me I've had no issues. I also have very good airflow in my case tho which helps.



Is the VRM heatspreader the one which comes with the X2?
Or the one which came with one of the later Sapphire X1950pro revisions?

Either way you need to have tose stupid sticky pads on there.
Or get that epoxy ASAP!


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## Makaveli (Dec 1, 2007)

I know they had released a Version of the X2 that came with it, but my version did not. 

I had to order the VRM heatspeader from Artic Ebay website. Didn't take long had it in a few days.


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## Greatpumkin628 (Dec 2, 2007)

Been running a sapphire 512K since release with no issues whatsoever.. aspire 500 feeds it to rock stable 630/1490

Running this cooler which keeps her at about 30 idle and 55 under full load. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835110015

I used a zalman vga ramsink that I cut in half and put on the vrm's with the spongy/sticky stuff that was between them and the stock single slot soloution.  

STABLE.

 I recommended this card to a friend and he has had zero issues as well.


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## The_Gunslinger (Dec 2, 2007)

Makaveli said:


> You actually find games playable at 1920x1200 on a X1950Pro?
> 
> I can get a used Samsung 27` for like $699 which is a very good deal. However I know my videocard won't be pushing the frame rate I require for it to be smooth. From all the reviews i've seen you need a GTX level card to really have that res comfortable for the majority of games out. I know HL2 and say Team Fortress 2 will be playable on X1950pro because they scale well with older hardware. However new games like bioshock, the new medal of honor will surely tank at that res on this card.



sorry for slow reply, been away for a bit.

i dont actually play games, or at least if i do they are not ones that will stress the card that much, i got it for it's other abilities 

i do watch a lot of movies, and find that it is very happy with 720p image files and as far as i can tell copes with 1080p ok as well, although that is a little harder on my system and it can sometimes be noticable, having said that, i have not noticed any GPU generated artifacts or daft stuff like that, and i am mor ethan happy with the card.

only thing i will be changing is i want it water cooled


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## kreaturekodeyellow (Dec 2, 2007)

twicksisted said:


> Hey Pum,
> 
> The X1950 is a seriously power hungry beast!
> That corsair may not be up to the job of handling it well im afriad!
> ...



I have dual rail PSU and artifacts always appear and system freezes up.
I think one of the 2 power inputs on my x1950pro is broke. I just used one molex to see if I could power up the card, one input worked the other did not.


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## suraswami (Dec 2, 2007)

Rock solid stable.  BF2 all the way turned up with all settings including AA get about 75 to 90 frames easily.


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## Makaveli (Dec 4, 2007)

The_Gunslinger said:


> sorry for slow reply, been away for a bit.
> 
> i dont actually play games, or at least if i do they are not ones that will stress the card that much, i got it for it's other abilities
> 
> ...



Cool ya I figured gaming wouldn't be the primary reason for your setup. Good luck with getting it watercooled.


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## The_Gunslinger (Dec 4, 2007)

thanks 

yeah, games just arent my thing.... but i do own a full size pinball machine  .... now there is a proper game


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## bubblesnout (Jan 5, 2008)

Sorry to bump an old topic... But I just stumbled upon this thread and you guys seem to know what you're talking about, whereas I am clueless!

I've had a x1950 Pro 512mb AGP for a little while now. Probably 7 months? Really can't remember... The manual says 'Version 2.0' on the back of it, so I assume I have the version 2.0 card.
A couple of months ago, I had a power supply blow up while playing a full screen game. It was a 550W. I then borrowed one from a friend until I could buy myself another one. After installing my friends one, it blew up within 20 minutes aswell! It was a 450W I think. So I went and bought a decent quality new 450W psu, and it seemed to be doing fine. A couple of weeks ago, during full screen applications (games basically), my computer would crash and instantly turn itself off. Occasionally my screen would become flooded with speckles (as someone in this thread has had before too).

I thought it may have been due to only a 450W power supply, so I upgraded to a 700W one, but still no difference. I have 2gb system RAM, but I must admit, it is cheap RAM that I bought off ebay... I've run a Windows Memory Diagnostic test on it, and it returned no errors. I have ordered some much nicer ram, although I doubt that has much to do with my issue..

I have submitted a support ticket with AMD/ATI, but I thought I'd ask here anyway, as they never give any technical details back.

Thanks for any help!


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## The_Gunslinger (Jan 5, 2008)

i had an antec neo 500 die on me within aprox 3 weeks of putting the card in, that was i think the 5v rail dying, which might be unrelated, but i swapped it out for a corsair 620, and have had no issues since.

BUT, i cant stress enough the requirement for a GOOD PSU, in any PC, let alone one with one of these cards, they are thirsty beasts at times, look carefully at the 12v rail distribution and current available, total wattage is not the "be all and end all" of a PSU capabilities

My basic advice right now would be to get a PSU with a single rail 12v desgn, that is capable of delivering a decent amount of current on the 12v..... 

if your looking for a recommendation, then you will not go too far wrong if you get a PC Power&Cooling unit, something like the Silencer 750 model, this will drive a decent sized system all year long without missing a beat.


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## bubblesnout (Jan 5, 2008)

So you think it would be a power supply issue? This afternoon after posting, I took my computer outside and using an air compressor, blew all the dust out of it (and I've never seen so much dust in my life!). It's now running with the side of the case off for extra ventilation, and I haven't had a crash since then, and I've been running games flat out since then... Looking in the Catalyst Control Centre, before blowing it out and taking the side off, the graphcis card was running at around 55-60 degrees Celsius (which seems like a lot!) just sitting on the desktop doing nothing special. Afterwards, it was running at about 40 degrees celsius on the desktop and 55-65 degrees while in a graphics intensive game, with quality turned up high... I'm surprised it has made that much difference.

As for your suggestions to power supplies, I really don't know much about the electronics side of things. This is the power supply I just bought and installed:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280185424212
I know it's a cheapish one, but should that be ok?

Thanks for your help


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## The_Gunslinger (Jan 5, 2008)

it "could be" a PSU issue, but as you found from experience, layers of dust is bad for temps, and when temps go up, all electronics will behave differently, you could simply have killed the first PSU with dust inhalation, followed by intensive use, hard to say, i'd guess the second PSU was probably not enough in the specs somewhere, but it too would be a guess

you can not underestimate how important a stable and clean source of power is in a pc.

the one you have ordered i cant say much about, because there is no makers details for me to research (that i saw)

but... what i did see was this bit


> Complies with ATX 12V 2.0 version



this means that each 12v can NOT have more than 18amps (i think) available to it, this is a supposed safety feature, and something that a number of makers disagree with, and thus dont follow, because some graphics cards require more than that on a single rail.

you might be ok, but if it goes again, i'd just go and buy the best one you can, even if it's overkill, it will be useful when you upgrade in the future.

also have a look around your case, just to make sure your not grounding out somewhere (like motherboard to tray) or something daft like that


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## bubblesnout (Jan 5, 2008)

Alrighty, well thanks for your help! I'll check if it could be grounded out somewhere tomorrow. I highly doubt that's the case, but worth a look anyway. I really should try and understand all the electronic works of the components when I get a chance to look at it. I'm a software developer, so my knowledge of hardware is good, but can be quite simplistic, so thanks for your help.


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## Widjaja (Jan 5, 2008)

bubblesnout said:


> As for your suggestions to power supplies, I really don't know much about the electronics side of things. This is the power supply I just bought and installed:
> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280185424212
> I know it's a cheapish one, but should that be ok?
> 
> Thanks for your help



Never heard of the brand but according to the specs this PSU should be more than enough.
Good luck dude, I'm sick and tired of hearing about these X1950pro issues TBH.

As well as non-definite answers from ATi-AMD because thier support really don't know what the issue is and sounds like they are made to reply off a list of pre-written sentences.


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## bubblesnout (Jan 6, 2008)

Hmm, so it happened again this morning... I got a automated response back from ATI, with a few things to check. I altered these settings in their applicable spots:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6. For AGP ( Accelerated Graphics Port) cards ensure:

    * Ensure that Fastwrite is disabled in BIOS, and in the SMARTGART section of ATI’s Catalyst Control Center
    * Try adjusting the AGP speed from (8X to 4X) (4X to 2X) or vise versa.
    * Increase the AGP Aperture in the BIOS. We recommend a 128MB minimum.
    * Disable any Shadowing settings in the BIOS.
    * Disable any Cache Video BIOS settings in the BIOS. 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So that might make a difference. But I also noticed this:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          * RADEON X1800/ X1900/ X1950 require special power supply: 

                + 450 Watt capacity with 30A on a +/- 12 volt rail (connection) for single graphics configuration.
                + 550 Watt capacity with 38A on a +/- 12 volt rail (connection) for dual graphics configuration for Crossfire (for a list of certified power supplies click here ). 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Funny how they never mentioned those specific requirements anywhere else. How is someone like me supposed to know that? I don't even understand all this talk about volts, amps and rails! If someone could quickly and simply explain that concept to me, I'd really appreciate it. Then I'd have more of an idea as to what I'm doing. Only thing I sorta understand about PSU's is wattage...

Thanks guys...

EDIT: This is the ATI support page by the way: http://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&questionID=28022


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## Widjaja (Jan 6, 2008)

Yeah I've seen that 'support' page.
Sounds like thier talking a load of crap to you.

First of all, it's a AGP 8X GPU so why would you  need to change the bandwidth for?
My AGP aperture is set to 128mb.
I have fast writes on.

THere are some threads about the explanation of the PSU votls/amps around.

I'm using a 600W Enermax with dual +12v 18a rails and I'm having 0 problems.

Haven't ever heard of the last two settings being in BIOS.


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## bubblesnout (Jan 6, 2008)

Well I had no 'shadow' setting in my BIOS, but I did have that video cache setting, so I turned it off. I'll have a search for that thread about the PSU's, thanks 

EDIT: I read through the PSU stuff, and it still doesn't make much sense to me  Still a bit of assumed knowledge there, of which I don't have. So to me it sounds like we think my problem is actually my power supply. I'm having trouble understanding how it could be, as it was fine for quite a few months with that old one, and the one I have now is basically no different, just with a higher wattage. There isn't anything on the card itself that could be causing the artifacts and the instant shutdowns when under pressure? I take it that it isn't a heat issue, because reading elsewhere a temperature of 65C is normal when under load, and that is what I'm getting.

Anyway, if the problem would be my power supply, could somebody maybe kick start me off by giving a couple of examples of power supplies that would work a treat? I don't want to spend a fortune... I'm not really a PC upgrading enthusiast... I just don't want it to crash!!


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## Widjaja (Jan 6, 2008)

LOL!
65 is not hot.
My GPU was up to 86deg which it has done in the past, today and constantly hits 82 with an idle of 50 something.
Never had an issue with it.

As for the PSU, mine works without a hitch.

Speckles is usually to do with either the core or the RAM on the GPU truned bad.

What card do you have exactly?
Is it a Sapphire, HIS, etc. . . .
If it's the HIS version 2 I think there is a unfixable problem.

Write up what your whole system is in your system specs.
We might be able to help a bit more.


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## bubblesnout (Jan 6, 2008)

Just updated my system specs... It is a HIS... So what does that mean? There's nothing I can do about the artifacts at all? Does that mean ATI will replace it for me? They can't just leave it that way, surely...


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## bubblesnout (Jan 6, 2008)

Thanks for your help 

I'll believe you when you say I couldn't really stuff up putting on some thermal paste... But I really don't know where to start, lol. Are you sure it will really make a difference? I mean, my temperature is perfectly fine, so I don't think working on the cooling is going to make much difference.. I have read that artifacts are probably caused by RAM on the card, and to try underclocking it... I've gotten a hold of ATI Tray Tools and have tried just that, so I'll see what happens there...


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## Mussels (Jan 6, 2008)

bubblesnout said:


> Anyway, if the problem would be my power supply, could somebody maybe kick start me off by giving a couple of examples of power supplies that would work a treat? I don't want to spend a fortune... I'm not really a PC upgrading enthusiast... I just don't want it to crash!!



OCZ gameXstream runs my system fine, so you can assume it'll run yours too.

For a simple explanation on amps/wattages...

Power supplies arent one big wire, with all the power on it. They split off into rails internally (one for 5 volt, one for 12 volt, and one for 3.3V at least.) Modern ones have more than one rail.
a 500W PSU may have a 400W 5V rail and only 80W for the 12V - if your system uses lots of 12V power and no 5V, you're screwed!

This is why we check the amps on each rail, and make sure theres enough power there, rather than just checking the wattage.


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## Widjaja (Jan 6, 2008)

Bubblesnout, you have DDR2 in your system.
That motherboard is designed to run DDR1.
Could this be a problem I wonder. . . .
Wonder if your motherboard will give a low enough voltage for them.

I'll get Craigleberry to tell you his story about his HIS ver.2.0 when it went bad.


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## grunt_408 (Jan 6, 2008)

I had a HIS X1950 Pro AGP Turbo card for about 4 weeks. I could not get any higher on drivers than 7.6. It ran fine for 4 weeks untill one day I came home from work went to my pc (in the mood to play a little bf2) Loaded up the game spawned on Wake island.. And the artifacts were bad real bad I will dig up some screen shots for you if you want. I rebooted all of the standard stuff. Removed the drivers and tried to put them back on and I couldnt get above a 4-bit desktop. I RMA it and sold the new one went to Sapphire. PCIe




This is how bad the artifacts were.


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## bubblesnout (Jan 6, 2008)

Lol this just keeps sounding worse... The card looked so good when I bought it! 

I didn't realise my board was designed for DDR1 memory... How ignorant of me. I want to get a new MoBo at some stage, but I'd obviously want to upgrade, so I'd get one that supports a Socket 775 multi-core processor. Problem here is, that's going to cost a bloody lot, because I'll need the new board, and a new processor. Given, I could sell the stuff I have now for a reasonable amount. But it's still quite a financial setback. I'd get a board with PCI-e aswell, but again that means buying a new card. *sigh*


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## Mussels (Jan 6, 2008)

Craigleberry said:


> I had a HIS X1950 Pro AGP Turbo card for about 4 weeks. I could not get any higher on drivers than 7.6. It ran fine for 4 weeks untill one day I came home from work went to my pc (in the mood to play a little bf2) Loaded up the game spawned on Wake island.. And the artifacts were bad real bad I will dig up some screen shots for you if you want. I rebooted all of the standard stuff. Removed the drivers and tried to put them back on and I couldnt get above a 4-bit desktop. I RMA it and sold the new one went to Sapphire. PCIe
> 
> 
> 
> ...



thats overheating GPU or ram for sure. Some 'dead' cards also exhibit that behaviour, without being hot at the time.


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## grunt_408 (Jan 6, 2008)

I ended up building a whole new rig.. Sold the old one gave me enough to build half the new one


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## Mussels (Jan 6, 2008)

bubblesnout said:


> Lol this just keeps sounding worse... The card looked so good when I bought it!
> 
> I didn't realise my board was designed for DDR1 memory... How ignorant of me. I want to get a new MoBo at some stage, but I'd obviously want to upgrade, so I'd get one that supports a Socket 775 multi-core processor. Problem here is, that's going to cost a bloody lot, because I'll need the new board, and a new processor. Given, I could sell the stuff I have now for a reasonable amount. But it's still quite a financial setback. I'd get a board with PCI-e aswell, but again that means buying a new card. *sigh*



are you interested in overclocking? if so, 775 is a lot cheaper than it may first appear 
The E21x0 chips are dirt cheap, and just by changing the FSB alone you can get quite impressive overclocks (3GHz from a 1.8GHz CPU on stock cooling has been done)


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## grunt_408 (Jan 6, 2008)

^^^^^ I agree even on a tight budget you can get a good result out of a cheap CPU


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## Widjaja (Jan 6, 2008)

bubblesnout said:


> Lol this just keeps sounding worse... The card looked so good when I bought it!
> 
> I didn't realise my board was designed for DDR1 memory... How ignorant of me. I want to get a new MoBo at some stage, but I'd obviously want to upgrade, so I'd get one that supports a Socket 775 multi-core processor. Problem here is, that's going to cost a bloody lot, because I'll need the new board, and a new processor. Given, I could sell the stuff I have now for a reasonable amount. But it's still quite a financial setback. I'd get a board with PCI-e aswell, but again that means buying a new card. *sigh*



Sorry to point out the reality, but it was better to give you the kick you in the guts instead of saying it was going to be fine by doing this or that which 'might' fix the problem.

Well you've already got the ram, see if you can RMA that POS of a GPU for a PCI-E version.
Buy a new motherboard and CPU then flick the old ones off.

Preferably Intel C2D since they OC like mad.
Unlike my AMD.


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## Mussels (Jan 6, 2008)

if you decide on new hardware, feel free to ask us for advice.
List your country of origin  (trust me on that, for prices/local deals) your budget, and what hardware you already have/willing to keep (some people like to keep the old system, others hate reusing parts)


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## bubblesnout (Jan 6, 2008)

Oh trust me, my artifacts are much worse than that screenshot  They cover the whole screen, and remain there when I get back to my windows desktop.

I'm not an overclocker, no. I've honestly never done it. I'd get another Socket 478 Motherboard, but because the cpu I have right now is the best socket 478 intel that was made, if I'm going to have to buy new stuff, I might as well upgrade, if you catch my drift. So a socket 775 is a good call. I reckon I could sell my cpu for a decent price, as I haven't had it that long, and they can be kinda tough to get your hands on.

I live in Australia. I'd like to keep as much of my current hardware as possible! lol


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## Mussels (Jan 6, 2008)

i'm aussie too  you can PM me later and i'll give you links to some good online stores.

With overclocking those E21x0 chips, its some simple math.
These chips are 200 FSB
E6600/Q6600 are 266
E6550/E6750/E6850 (latest series) are 333

So all you gotta do is turn the FSB from 200 to 266 or hopefully 333 (luck depending) for the easiest free performance boost ever 

(The logic being that if you buy a 333 "1333 FSB" capable motherboard and ram, then ONLY the CPU is overclocked and everything else is guaranteed to run at that speed)


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## Widjaja (Jan 6, 2008)

bubblesnout said:


> Oh trust me, my artifacts are much worse than that screenshot  They cover the whole screen, and remain there when I get back to my windows desktop.
> 
> I'm not an overclocker, no. I've honestly never done it. I'd get another Socket 478 Motherboard, but because the cpu I have right now is the best socket 478 intel that was made, if I'm going to have to buy new stuff, I might as well upgrade, if you catch my drift. So a socket 775 is a good call. I reckon I could sell my cpu for a decent price, as I haven't had it that long, and they can be kinda tough to get your hands on.
> 
> I live in Australia. I'd like to keep as much of my current hardware as possible! lol



You'll keep everything except the most expensive parts.
The GPU, CPU and motherboard.

It's always the way isn't it?


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## Mussels (Jan 7, 2008)

i PM'd bubbles with a list of aussie e-tailers and some good hardware to look at 
(E2180 i think, 2Ghz stock. Asrock 4-core SATA-II mobo)

Cheap, he/she can use the old DDR ram for now, and either PCI-E or AGP card that comes back in warranty will work.


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## Widjaja (Jan 7, 2008)

Is the AsRock one of those AGP/PCI-E boards?
If so it would be a safe bet just incase a AGP comes back.
On the other hand I heard those motherboards aren't very good oveclockers.


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## Mussels (Jan 7, 2008)

the asrocks can OC to a small extent. On this board, i've reached 4GHz with a P4D CPU (3GHz stock) but around 4.2 the FSB was high enough the IDE channel corrupted and killed the OS.

That said, its 100% stable as long as you dont need to change voltages. These E2x series are fine going from say, 200 FSB to 266FSB (boards official limit for the higher model CPU's) on stock volts, so they pair up nicely.


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## bubblesnout (Jan 7, 2008)

Mussels said:


> he/she



He 

Here's the AsRock MoBo you suggested, which looks nice. http://www.itestate.com.au/products_detail.asp?code=PD00005018

I take it that it has 2 DDR2 ram slots, and 2 DDR ram slots, yes? So If I wanted to use 4gb of ram, I would use the DDR2 ram I have now, and get 2 DDR chips as well? (Not that I really need 4gb ). It has 2 IDE connectors, so that makes that easy. No onboard graphics, so I'll have to RMA my x1950 before I start using the board, but apart from that I think it's all good.


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## Mussels (Jan 7, 2008)

no you cannot mix DDR1 and 2 - on that page it does say "*DDRII and DDR are supported separately "

No onboard, but it does cover the uncertainty of what RMA card you get. go for PCI-E if you can, and if not... AGP still works out.


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## bubblesnout (Jan 7, 2008)

Oh right, so I can only have 2GB, either DDR2 or DDR1. No worries. There's nothing I would really need 4gb ram for for quite a while anyway I suppose. I'll apply for an RMA when I get home, so I can check out my serial number, product code, and all that jargon. I think I'll look at a Core 2 Quad as well. I can pick one of them up for about $375 AUD.


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## Mussels (Jan 7, 2008)

you can go 4GB, if you get 2x 2GB sticks of ram. expensive now, but a good option in 6 months or so.

Quads are awesome, but they wont overclock in that motherboard. Just throwing that out there.


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## bubblesnout (Jan 9, 2008)

Just FYI, I was talking with a HIS Support person, and was told to downgrade to the Catalyst 7.6 drivers for this reason:

"There is a defect on AGP card in the drivers after version 7.6 . ATI is correcting it for the coming driver."

Believable?


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## Mussels (Jan 9, 2008)

i'd beleive it. until the drivers come out and we see it ourselves, its certainly possible.


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## Widjaja (Jan 9, 2008)

Possible. . . . .
Take a look at this funky ensemble






Just from not enabling Geometry instancing in Colin McRae DiRT.
Only game which has done this.

Anyway try ot 7.6 if you haven't and tell us what happens.


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## grunt_408 (Jan 9, 2008)

Holy crap man that is unreal. It sort of looks like one of them old stealth jets lol


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## Widjaja (Jan 9, 2008)

And just for comparisons sake, here's what the garbled screen is supposed to look like.






So as you can see the word DiRT turned into the stealth fighter without geometry instancing.
Yeah it was a shock to see the messed up screen pop up after re-installing DiRT again.


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## grunt_408 (Jan 9, 2008)

It is a cool game that I have the demo.. I will get the full game one day


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## bubblesnout (Jan 9, 2008)

I downgraded to 7.6, and now a few of my games tell me my drivers are out of date, and they won't play. Haha, goody. But as far as I've seen so far, they seem to be ok. I'll send an e-mail to ATI and ask if this is actually the case.


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## Widjaja (Jan 9, 2008)

Wow didn't take long for the drivers to become obselete.


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## VeDz (Jan 10, 2008)

This card is legendary, it will never die! Mine hasn't let me down yet. Paired with a C2D @ 3.5 you can still play many games at max setting. Stable as heck, I even stressed it soo much as it hit 89 degrees. No artifacts then etc. I have the HIS 256 model with the reference cooler and not the cool looking one, but still works awesome.


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## Widjaja (Jan 10, 2008)

Yeah the old stock HIS X1950pro's aren't supposed to have any issues.
The version 2.0s had the problem, which is obviously driver orientated.
Your HIS model is nearly identical to my Sapphire X1950pro except for the VRAM.
I also had no troubles with my card, even at 86deg, except for the cooler hissing away sounding like a tire with a leak.


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## bubblesnout (Jan 10, 2008)

Well I think I figured out how to read the label on my power supply... It looks like I have a 12v rail with 30a, and that's what the card needs, so it should be fine, at 700W.

Also, what would you guys suggest I do for a new cpu? I am thinking between these two:

a Dual Core at 3.16GHz
Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 (3.16GHz/45nm/1333FSB/6M) LGA775
Or a Quad Core at 2.4GHz:
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600(G0 stepping) CPU, 2.40 GHz, FSB 1066MHz, 2x4MB L2 Cache, Socket LGA775

What do you think? I'm not really into overclocking... I've never tried it. Partly because I don't know how to, and partly because I'm scared of breaking something.


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## Widjaja (Jan 10, 2008)

Ergh.
Tough choice but both good ones.
Personally I'd go with the Quad because it has more threads which is better future proofing IMO.
Either one goes hard but I'd try get some opinions not too much knowledge when it comes to the Intels.


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## Wile E (Jan 10, 2008)

I'm a quad core fan. As more apps become multi-threaded, it will actually become faster in use.


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## bubblesnout (Jan 10, 2008)

Hmmm... Do those cpu's come with a heatsink / fan? I'm definitely leaning towards the Quad. I have quite a nice heatsink and fan right now, but it's only for socket 478  If it doesn't come with one, do I need anything special to keep it cool?


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## Wile E (Jan 10, 2008)

bubblesnout said:


> Hmmm... Do those cpu's come with a heatsink / fan? I'm definitely leaning towards the Quad. I have quite a nice heatsink and fan right now, but it's only for socket 478  If it doesn't come with one, do I need anything special to keep it cool?



If you buy the retail version, it comes with a fan. If you buy the OEM version, it does not.


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## bubblesnout (Jan 10, 2008)

Cool, I won't worry about a secondary fan then. Unless I ever feel like overclocking, then I'll look into it. Thanks for your help


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## Wile E (Jan 10, 2008)

bubblesnout said:


> Cool, I won't worry about a secondary fan then. Unless I ever feel like overclocking, then I'll look into it. Thanks for your help


Even if you do want to overclock, the stock cooler is usually good for at least 3GHz. My chip could do 3.2GHz on the stock cooler.


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## Widjaja (Jan 10, 2008)

Wile E said:


> Even if you do want to overclock, the stock cooler is usually good for at least 3GHz. My chip could do 3.2GHz on the stock cooler.



All this time I didn't know you had a Intel quad.
All I remember is you popping the IHS off your 6000+ only to find out it was soldered on.

You haven't doen anything to the quad thought about it have you?


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## Wile E (Jan 10, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> All this time I didn't know you had a Intel quad.
> All I remember is you popping the IHS off your 6000+ only to find out it was soldered on.
> 
> You haven't doen anything to the quad thought about it have you?


I was thinking about lapping it. lol.

But no. I'm keeping the warranty on this one. It's not like a $100-$150 cpu, where it's relatively easy to replace for me. I had to stretch it a little to buy this.


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## thegave (Jan 10, 2008)

I've just ordered a Sapphire X1950Pro 512mb and was hoping to get some definitive answers on a few questions..

1. If it is a rev2 board, which it probably will be, is pencil/hard-modding the only way to up the vgpu?  Or do some of Ketxxx's bioses work? Will the vgpu settings in ATiTool work?

2. How much vcore would be safe for an AC Accelero S2 with the vreg heatsink/plate? Will probably be sticking extra heatsinks on top of the vreg plate and an extra fan.

3. What apps work for overclocking? I remember reading about specific versions of ATT that one should use... And I know the card doesn't work with ATiTool 0.26

To stay in line with the current topic, how well does DiRT run with the X1950Pro? Can anyone give me a performance estimate for the X1950Pro with P4 2.8C, 1gb ram. Does the game really need a non-integrated soundcard like audigy2, x-fi?

And has anyone tried the Logitech G25 with DiRT?


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## Widjaja (Jan 10, 2008)

I can't say anything about the three answers but I can say DiRT run very smooth in single car races but is crap in multicar races, especially rallycross higher up in the tiers.
I can't comment on the sound card as I always had one.

There are people at the DiRT forum who say the G25 gives them the upper hand in online gaming in DiRT.

Apparently Sapphire X1950pro have the most headroom for overclocking but still there isn't much left as they are already factory overclocked, but in saying that you won't want to be overclocking too much with the factory cooler.

Rev 1 has the reference cooler which keeps my X1950pro at 81-82 degrees max load on average.


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## thegave (Jan 10, 2008)

i thought HIS was the only one that came factory overclocked. I thought the sapphire comes at 580mhz core which is stock?

i have ordered a AC Accelero X2 with the vreg heatplate already so not too worried about temps.

another random question: 

does anyone know if sapphire uses the same PCB for their 1950gt and 1950pro cards?


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## thegave (Jan 12, 2008)

bump..

I guess what I'm trying to find out is what exactly the differerence is between AGP and PCI-E cards in terms of pcb and overclocking.

Can someone also tell me whether the sapphire x1950pro 512mb AGP card comes on a new pcb with analogue vregs like the pci-e version or has it never changed? is it the same pcb as the X1950GT? 

I'm trying to work out which voltmod I can do on it..


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## Mussels (Jan 12, 2008)

AGP and PCI-E are the same, except the AGP cards have a bridge to convert them to AGP.

They use the same cards for both these days.

as for Vmod, i dont know - there is a thread about it on these forums somewhere if you search for it.


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## thegave (Jan 15, 2008)

I've looked can't find anything for the Sapphire AGP board. I thought the PCBs were different.

Anyhoo, took it out of the box and bumped the core up to 654MHz, next step up is 661.5 which crashes after ~3 minutes on artifact scanner. A bit disappointed because it card temp doesn't break 70'C on stock cooler so feel like I must vmod it now to justify purchase of the X2.

mem currently stable at 756, core at stock. will try the two together to see where the temps go.

please! i need a vmod guide! my X2 is screaming to be opened.


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## Widjaja (Jan 15, 2008)

X1950pro's don't OC very much anyhow.
Even the Sapphire is already Factory overclocked.
If you wanted a card to overclock which is around the same performance, you go for a 7900GS.

If you play an graphics intensive game at stock clocks you'll see how hot the card will get.
It should get up to around 80deg with the stock cooler at stock settings.

You can install a AC X2 or a VF700 or 900 which will decrease the temps a fair bit which isn't hard over the reference cooler.
I think at stock with a AC X2 it idles around 60deg.
An aftermarket cooler would be for just making this GPU cooler and not really for achieveing a high overclock.


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## thegave (Jan 15, 2008)

Actually temps were lower while I was playing TF2 than while I was running artifact scan.

I have the X2, I just haven't opened it yet. 60'C idle isn't that low, considering I'm idling at 45'C with the stock cooler.

So. Was it a mistake to buy the X2 then, if there's not much point modding it?

Mine came out of the box at 581/702, isn't stock 580/700? Not much of an overclock.


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## The_Real_DeaL31 (Jan 15, 2008)

lol, i dont why all u guys are getting such high temps, my x1950pro ldle's 41c core 34c mem, load is 48c tops mem 38c. but i have a few question to ask, my corsiar vx550 gets warm even in at idle, i even treid this psu in my other system still warm. sapphire gave me the x1950gt cooler with this card. and one last thing, how can i tell what rev my x1950pro 512mb agp is


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## Widjaja (Jan 15, 2008)

@thegave
I meant 60deg max temp with the X2
Here read this.
It's the installation of the X2 which I found an interesting read.
http://www.ricklafay.com/Computers/sapphire_x1950_pro_agp_card.htm

@The Real DeaL31
You have a Rev 2 since you have the X1950GT type cooler.
I have the Rev 1 X1950pro which is the one you see in most reviews with the reference cooler blowing air to the back of the case.
It's the main reason why I get such high temps.
Idle currently at 57-58deg C
Max load is usually around 82degC and still going strong.

After playing Colin McRae DiRT for a while the bottom/back of my case can get quite hot to touch which is the reason why I bent a PCI expansion slot panel at the back so it was angled towards the exhaust of the cooler to get rid of the heat out of my case.


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## acperience7 (Jan 15, 2008)

-Stable
-VisionTek X1950 Pro XGE
-Dell 4600i(Intel 865 by Foxconn)
-CoolerMaster eXtremePower 500W 32A (2x 16A 12Vrails)

Running without a hitch for a full month now on stock clocks of 575Mhz core and 1380Mhz memory.

Stable OC: core @ 594Mhz, memory @ 1444Mhz(ran under load for 9 hours no problems)

Max Stable OC: core @ 607Mhz, memory @ 1552Mhz(ATI Tool artifact scan for 45 minutes)
-607Mhz was the max stable core clock. I stopped at 1552Mhz on the memory, because I didn't care to go higher.


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## The_Real_DeaL31 (Jan 15, 2008)

is rev 2 better then rev 1, cause i've owned the x1950pro 256mb pci-e version, from my experince there seems to be no difference in overclocking both cards


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## thegave (Jan 15, 2008)

Hey umm in RaBIT my card shows up as a Radeon X1650 (RV570) is that normal?

This is weird too, the card runs stable on 661/756 but crashes on 661/701 (stock mem)...


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## Widjaja (Jan 16, 2008)

The_Real_DeaL31 said:


> is rev 2 better then rev 1, cause i've owned the x1950pro 256mb pci-e version, from my experince there seems to be no difference in overclocking both cards




You would expect the Rev 2 to be better, it seems to have better cooling which I think was the reason for the revision.

Only card I know of in the X1950pro AGP series which went backwards with a revision is the HIS X1950pro IceQ3 Turbo when they changed the memory nm on it, then the drivers issue started happening.


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