# ATI Catalyst 9.2 Released



## malware (Feb 20, 2009)

AMD has just released ATI Catalyst version 9.2, so now you have a brand new driver for tonight and a nice tweaking utility to test. Catalyst 9.2 brings performance benefits in several games:



Crysis DX10 gains up to 20%
Crysis Warhead DX10 gains up to 20%
World in Conflict gains up to 5%
Now the new driver also enables Anisotropic Filtering for DirectX 10 applications in Windows Vista and fixes some minor issues that occured in previous versions. For the full list of fixes, please read the Catalyst 9.2 release notes.


*DOWNLOAD*: ATI Catalyst version 9.2 for Windows XP and Windows Vista (32/64-bit versions)

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


----------



## freakshow (Feb 20, 2009)

malware said:


> AMD has just released ATI Catalyst version 9.2, so now you have a brand new driver for tonight and a nice tweaking utility to test. Catalyst 9.2 brings performance benefits in several games:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



somebody beat u to it lol 

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=85837


----------



## oli_ramsay (Feb 20, 2009)

Thanks!

Apparently they have their own twitter page too:

http://twitter.com/CatalystMaker


----------



## Silverel (Feb 20, 2009)

freakshow said:


> somebody beat u to it lol
> 
> http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=85837



Yeah, but they should be using the Submit News button instead of posting it


----------



## kiriakost (Feb 20, 2009)

HOTFIX direct page .... http://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&questionID=31625


----------



## sapetto (Feb 20, 2009)

Sexy new 3D Settings Preview


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Feb 20, 2009)

I just OC my processor for this exact reason!!!!



> Performance Improvements
> Catalyst™ 9.2 brings performance benefits in several cases where framerates are
> *CPU-limited*. Some measured examples are:
> • Crysis DX10 gains up to 20%
> ...


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Feb 20, 2009)

Can somebody do some benchies and see if the 8.12 drivers are still faster?


----------



## InnocentCriminal (Feb 20, 2009)

Excellent!

My girlfriend and I finished upgrading her PC last night. Glad these have been released!


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Feb 20, 2009)

InnocentCriminal said:


> Excellent!
> 
> My girlfriend and I finished upgrading her PC last night. Glad these have been released!



Is that what you kids call it nowadays? "Upgrading the PC"? Careful I ended up with a kid last time I "Upgraded" one


----------



## InnocentCriminal (Feb 20, 2009)

:d


----------



## Homeless (Feb 20, 2009)

My radeon 4550 i still getting those atikmdag errors :\


----------



## kiriakost (Feb 20, 2009)

I hold my old P4 system for more many reasons , 
but still this "Upgrading the PC" task ,

sounds fun ...


----------



## InnocentCriminal (Feb 20, 2009)




----------



## devguy (Feb 20, 2009)

Silverel said:


> Yeah, but they should be using the Submit News button instead of posting it



Heh, if I had the ability to put up a new thread in the "News" section, I would've, but I don't have the authority.  As I posted in the other thread, looks like the hd 4850x2 is now part of the regular driver suite (sweet!) for both Windows and Linux.

Unfortunately, though, the AVIVO converter for Vista x64 is still absent...


----------



## truehighroller1 (Feb 20, 2009)

Homeless said:


> My radeon 4550 i still getting those atikmdag errors :\



This is probably because you haven't been doing a complete clean install. Just a stab, maybe you are but in most cases people still having issues don't wipe everthing as clean as they should.


----------



## Marineborn (Feb 20, 2009)

im gonna give it a week and see how they test out and make up my mind


----------



## csendesmark (Feb 20, 2009)

DXVA still broken on XP ...


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Feb 20, 2009)

Marineborn said:


> im gonna give it a week and see how they test out and make up my mind



No you will download it now and love it.


----------



## trt740 (Feb 20, 2009)

if this is true AMD cards just got a bunch faster.


----------



## truehighroller1 (Feb 20, 2009)

trt740 said:


> if this is true AMD cards just got a bunch faster.





That is what I was thinking as well. If this is true then GTA IV should see a big increase as well.


----------



## kiriakost (Feb 20, 2009)

Good news for  me ....  with  9.2  Photoshop works again  as normal  ( 9.1 was messed up) 

About the 20%  gain ,  thats   + 20 fps  at 100 fps  so  at 50 fps  that my HD3850 can do , 
its just 10 fps gain ,  well i test COD5  1600x1200  and i think that i got that 10 extra fps. 
My max 45 fps become 55 fps. 

The 9.2 its not certified ... but who cares . 

*EDIT :*
On my AGP system scores looks messed up , lightmark marks fall at half ??  still testing.

*More EDIT :*
*3DMark06*  scores at individual scenes  dropped down  2-5 fps !!  
*Crysis Benchmark Tool* dropped too 2-3 fps . 

Ahhh enough for me , back to 8.12 .




> This hotfix resolves the following issues:
> 
> * Fix for problems with DirectX and Radeon HD 3000 and HD 2000 Series AGP Graphics cards.



Never had any ... long live DX9


----------



## DRDNA (Feb 20, 2009)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> Can somebody do some benchies and see if the 8.12 drivers are still faster?



Yes Sir I will tonight after work   I have the HD4870X2 and Vista 64
Sure cant be worse than 9.1's as I found lots of little issues and big issues with OpenGL ...


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Feb 20, 2009)

kiriakost said:


> Good news for  me ....  with  9.2  Photoshop works again  as normal  ( 9.1 was messed up)
> 
> About the 20%  gain ,  thats   + 20 fps  at 100 fps  so  at 50 fps  that my HD3850 can do ,
> its just 10 fps gain ,  well i test COD5  1600x1200  and i think that i got that 10 extra fps.
> ...



Um how did ATI drivers mess up your Photoshop?


----------



## kiriakost (Feb 20, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Um how did ATI drivers mess up your Photoshop?



The only that i have to say , is that ATI all that it does is to tweak drivers , to offer fixes for the latest hardware , and this causes troubles to backwards compatibility.  

About the Photoshop story i had post an image on another post.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Feb 20, 2009)

kiriakost said:


> The only that i have to say , is that ATI all that it does is to tweak drivers , to offer fixes for the latest hardware , and this causes troubles to backwards compatibility.
> 
> About the Photoshop story i had post an image on another post.



Post a link. Let me see. But honestly it sounds like you have bigger problems than ATI drivers if your Photoshop is screwing up.


----------



## kiriakost (Feb 20, 2009)

Ok here is the picture ...   but as i said  issue caused by the 9.1 ,  8.12 works 9.2 works.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Feb 20, 2009)

kiriakost said:


> Ok here is the picture ...   but as i said  issue caused by the 9.1 ,  8.12 works 9.2 works.



Not so sure thats a driver issue M8. TBH that looks to me like a hardware issue. Maybe RAM.

I say this from a HUGE amount of experience with Photoshop.


----------



## kiriakost (Feb 20, 2009)

I had update my above post with a healthy  9.2 image.  



> Not so sure thats a driver issue M8.



You are welcome  to visit me , and check the system if you like ,  i will offer free coffee


----------



## erocker (Feb 20, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Not so sure thats a driver issue M8. TBH that looks to me like a hardware issue. Maybe RAM.
> 
> I say this from a HUGE amount of experience with Photoshop.



Since the new driver fixed the problem, I'd have to think it was a driver problem.  I, to an extent had a similar problem with PS and an older set of Nvidia drivers.


----------



## ShadowFold (Feb 20, 2009)

Quick question.. I am new to Crossfire, how do I install these? Just install them like I would with a single card?


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Feb 20, 2009)

erocker said:


> Since the new driver fixed the problem, I'd have to think it was a driver problem.  I, to an extent had a similar problem with PS and an older set of Nvidia drivers.


Maybe the driver helped with some ram allocation or something but I have never seen a driver cause the issue he posted. Every system Iv seen with "scaling" in photoshop has had a bad stick of ram or the GPU itself was crapping out. Once it was a dying CPU but that was a first gen G3 which I don't count. The first generation Blue and whites were trash.

Basically Iv never seen photoshop screw up from a software conflict elsewhere in the system. I can honestly say 99.99999% of the time its been hardware on the fritz. 

Thats been my experience anyway.


----------



## DRDNA (Feb 20, 2009)

Okay  heres is a run with the 8.12 with the hot fix (best so for my rig).

I have down clocked the CPU to 3.6GHZ  from 4.2GHZ for the benchies(GHZ more towards the norm now)

I am running the 4870X2 at stock values 750/900

I did NOT optimise for the following benches (apps open and the likes)

CCC set to Balanced for setting





I will post the Results of the 9.2's to compare with every thing the same ...Be back after an uninstall /sweep/clean/install/benchies/post again.


----------



## spearman914 (Feb 20, 2009)

Those increases are BS. I got 1fps better on average fps. But it's cool that ATI is making new drivers faster now.


----------



## Megasty (Feb 20, 2009)

Looks like I still need to stay far, far away from crossfire. A single 4870x2 is more than suitable for now. I can't say my 4870s are liking the idea. The poor boys are feeling lonely as hell. I don't have the time to keep on fumbling with CFx anyway. I may try again next month.


----------



## Polarman (Feb 20, 2009)

Nice change to their download page. Less confusion. I'll try em later.


----------



## DRDNA (Feb 20, 2009)

Same ole error that I received with the 8.11,8.12 with and with out hot fix,9.1 and 9.2 .
This error has yet to mean anything for me ,except I do one more reboot and never ever see the error again.



Next the Benches with the already installed 9.2's


----------



## DRDNA (Feb 20, 2009)

DRDNA said:


> Okay  heres is a run with the 8.12 with the hot fix (best so for my rig).
> 
> I have down clocked the CPU to 3.6GHZ  from 4.2GHZ for the benchies(GHZ more towards the norm now)
> 
> ...





DRDNA said:


> Same ole error that I received with the 8.11,8.12 with and with out hot fix,9.1 and 9.2 .
> This error has yet to mean anything for me ,except I do one more reboot and never ever see the error again.
> 
> View attachment 23100
> ...




Okay thumbs up so far !!
With 9.2's for Vista 64
Fur +22

3DM06 + 333

3DM05 +2025


ALL settings and same everything !


----------



## DRDNA (Feb 21, 2009)

These games are working with 9.2's ...I didnt notice a difference ...maybe a little smother....but There was no issue before for me .


----------



## DanishDevil (Feb 21, 2009)

Fixed the non-working GPU Scaling and Over/Underscanning of the 9.1's.


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Feb 21, 2009)

DRDNA said:


> Yes Sir I will tonight after work   I have the HD4870X2 and Vista 64
> Sure cant be worse than 9.1's as I found lots of little issues and big issues with OpenGL ...



Thank you very much sir!


----------



## ShadowFold (Feb 21, 2009)

Runs awesome!!! I was playing Crysis Warhead DX9 2x AA 1920x1080 and I was getting 34fps average! That's the best I've seen Crysis run for me! Left 4 Dead still runs at 122fps at all times with 16x AA/16x AF, STALKER Clear Sky all maxed 2x AA DX10.1 mode 25-32fps average 1920x1080 on all of them.

I'm freakin loving Crossfire so far  Definitely gonna do Crossfire from now on. Single GPU setups are teh suck


----------



## kiriakost (Feb 21, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> Single GPU setups are teh suck



no shit ..


----------



## fullinfusion (Feb 21, 2009)

I dont know what to think of the Cat 9.2,  (Testing n Testing) the 8.10 I've been using are imo  way better, but im using a PII 940 Proc and everything has changed....... even down to the ram....... 1T at 4.4.4.10.15 is now working compared to using the 9850 quad processor.

I think the 8.10's are way better.


----------



## kiriakost (Feb 21, 2009)

fullinfusion said:


> I think the 8.10's are way better.



Ok i will speak honest ...  

Ok i said honest  

Right , so i believe you , the truth are that drivers that come along with the hardware,
most of the times are perfect for it . 

You will never see more " power " with any other , the driver is just software . 

Software is useful only if there is something wrong with the hardware configuration, 
and the software patch comes to cure it . 

Not all  VGA models demands patches to operate , and personally i think that i do not need any more NEW drivers so to enjoy my hardware . 

By reading ppl from this forum , even 8.10 and 8.11 plus 8.12 looks fine drivers to me. 
Some people favor more 8.11 ,  but why not even 8.10 .  

I will go to read what its  version improves , and i will select the last one who offered the mosts improves for my current hardware , the latest ones looks to be tweaked for newer models , and that does not offer me gain , the opposite happens , i loose !!


----------



## Marineborn (Feb 21, 2009)

ugh...what happened to good oldschool omegas...*sad face*...could always trust the old omegas...im gonna go download these and install...*sigh*


----------



## DailymotionGamer (Feb 21, 2009)

Can someone post on how many opengl extensions this driver has?
Post the results from using opengl extension viewer if you have the time, thanks


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 21, 2009)

kiriakost said:


> HOTFIX direct page .... http://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&questionID=31625



WOW these came out under the radar and pretty quick.


----------



## Marineborn (Feb 21, 2009)

wow these drivers impress me not, apparently they cannot find my 4870x2....thats hilarous..whateva..


----------



## fullinfusion (Feb 21, 2009)

kiriakost said:


> Ok i will speak honest ...
> 
> Ok i said honest
> 
> ...


I couldn't have said it better myself.


----------



## DailymotionGamer (Feb 21, 2009)

Marineborn said:


> wow these drivers impress me not, apparently they cannot find my 4870x2....thats hilarous..whateva..



use device manager to install them.


----------



## fullinfusion (Feb 21, 2009)

Marineborn said:


> wow these drivers impress me not, apparently they cannot find my 4870x2....thats hilarous..whateva..


Hey dude how do un-install the ol drivers..... step by step if you can mate! the way i do it i have 100% luck un-installing and Re in-stalling the drivers


----------



## Marineborn (Feb 21, 2009)

yeah...i guess...just theres nothing with the ol 8.12hotfixes...*sigh*...but ill install them


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 21, 2009)

Marineborn said:


> yeah...i guess...just theres nothing with the ol 8.12hotfixes...*sigh*...but ill install them



Warning, they are for AGP cards mainly, I am currently on the 8.12s and only download the latest hotfix for backup purposes (since i see no FTP). I was on 8.1, moved to 8.5 and then 8.12, all work for AGP, 9.2s are probably the same (Just work and support newer games)


----------



## Marineborn (Feb 21, 2009)

wait a second. are you trying to tell me the 8.12hotfixes were meant for agp cards...cause thats whats running my 4870x2....LOL!!!


----------



## spearman914 (Feb 21, 2009)

I never thought 8.12/8.11 was any good either.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 21, 2009)

Marineborn said:


> wait a second. are you trying to tell me the 8.12hotfixes were meant for agp cards...cause thats whats running my 4870x2....LOL!!!



i think it mainly deals with the way the AGP cards access DX, because the report applies to the 3850 and lower cards after Cat 7.7s.


----------



## Marineborn (Feb 21, 2009)

well i unistalled all my old drivers went into safe mode and used driver sweeper and got rid of all the crud and came back into windows and it still refuses to install them..im not impressed...at all


----------



## Marineborn (Feb 21, 2009)

Dont mine me im a idiot..LOL!!!! apparently i was mr fast clicky and not paying attention and i downloaded the 64 bit for windows xp...LOL at me..go ahead and laugh ill take it like a man!


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Feb 21, 2009)

Well my 3DMark06 score went from 12844 to 12946


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 21, 2009)

Marineborn said:


> Dont mine me im a idiot..LOL!!!! apparently i was mr fast clicky and not paying attention and i downloaded the 64 bit for windows xp...LOL at me..go ahead and laugh ill take it like a man!



yup gotta be careful of that, XP64 is Server 2003 code.


----------



## kiriakost (Feb 21, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Well my 3DMark06 score went from 12844 to 12946



M8 you have a good reason to brag


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 21, 2009)

i update my drivers every 5-7 months.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Feb 21, 2009)

kiriakost said:


> M8 you have a good reason to brag



I wasnt bragging at all. I was just showing I got a small gain from the new driver. You need to relax kiriakost :shadedshu


----------



## kiriakost (Feb 21, 2009)

I checked previous ATI driver reports , and in all they claim minor fixes about XP 32 , so i will keep the 9.2 until to see a true bug or something , benchmarks are just benchmarks , so far on gaming i did not see any negative effects .


----------



## kiriakost (Feb 21, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I wasnt bragging at all. I was just showing I got a small gain from the new driver. You need to relax kiriakost :shadedshu



You need to relax too , i did not say that you had brag ...   

And by the way , i am not M8 , i am M9 (advanced model )


----------



## InnocentCriminal (Feb 21, 2009)

Marineborn said:


> wait a second. are you trying to tell me the 8.12hotfixes were meant for agp cards...cause thats whats running my 4870x2....LOL!!!



ATi release more than one hotfix, for your 4870X2 the AGP hotfix wouldn't have worked.


----------



## RevengE (Feb 21, 2009)

sorry didnt know there was a submit news button my bad.


----------



## InnocentCriminal (Feb 21, 2009)

xRevengEx said:


> sorry didnt know there was a submit news button my bad.



HUH!

That button never seems to 'work' - I'll submit news which will be ignored, and the 20 minutes or so later the exact thing I posted is up on the main page without any mention of who sent it in.

Sometimes I ask myself why I stay here, then I realise that not everyone is an asshole and that there are some freaking brilliant members here.


----------



## RevengE (Feb 21, 2009)

Yeah I posted up a longer version of this article last night and didn't know there was a way to submit to the news staff..but O Well.


----------



## kiriakost (Feb 21, 2009)

Ok lets roll again about the drivers subject ... 

The 9.2 states as major advantage the  *" OpenGL 3.0 context " *

Does any one know what software or Game using it ?  

Off topic ... 
Just download  and test the old ATI screen saver ( ATI ScreenSpace) - Moon planets and stuff , amazing view


----------



## Megasty (Feb 21, 2009)

Heh, just tested it on one of my old 3870x2s and it died during installation. I feel sorry for the poor thing, but that made the 100th card I've killed. I will be enshrining it just for the heck of it. It definitely served me well.


----------



## Drizzt5 (Feb 22, 2009)

*sigh*

I'm going to reformat and try a fresh install of these drivers... I never have an easy time installing ANY ati drivers but this time I think I screwed up something and I'm sick of trying to find fixes for this installation.


----------



## Super XP (Feb 22, 2009)

Thank Freaking Goodness, a Crysis DX10 boost 
I think it's time for a fresh Format and a Vista x64 install. But after I test the 9.2's for a week or so to see if I have to format.


----------



## silkstone (Feb 22, 2009)

Drivers won't detect my 4859 then the install manager crashes


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 22, 2009)

redownload the file, and make sure to delete the current one. Make 100% sure your previous driver is removed, use the Driver Cleaner App from GURU 3D and also Driver Cleaner Pro (can be found at GUru 3D) to Remove Most traces of ATI/Nvidia Vid card drivers, there are readme files for the Driver Cleaner Pro, follow them Verbatim.


----------



## 95Viper (Feb 22, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> Quick question.. I am new to Crossfire, how do I install these? Just install them like I would with a single card?



Seems everyone ignored you...Yep is the answer.


----------



## Drizzt5 (Feb 22, 2009)

For crossfire you can just install both with the bridges and then install the drivers. It will auto detect and then ta-da crossfire.

But that only happens in a perfect world ^^


----------



## Hayder_Master (Feb 22, 2009)

* Crysis DX10 gains up to 20%
    * Crysis Warhead DX10 gains up to 20%
    * World in Conflict gains up to 5%
i hope now ATI performance with this games = nvidia performance cuz this games support nvidia


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Drizzt5 said:


> For crossfire you can just install both with the bridges and then install the drivers. It will auto detect and then ta-da crossfire.
> 
> But that only happens in a perfect world ^^



ask Wile E on a little app that forces Crossfire.


----------



## Azkeyz (Feb 22, 2009)

kiriakost said:


> I hold my old P4 system for more many reasons ,
> but still this "Upgrading the PC" task ,
> 
> sounds fun ...




Amen to that , I know your reasoning , BUGS lol and other issues you want worked out 
by others before you upgrade to SLI ...

or thats my thinking on this after being a PC user for over 20 years of my life ...

The distance between 9.1 and 9.2 felt like the same time frame as an nVidia update.

my issues with nVida have been thermal , when I accidently killed my first 6800 ultra oc and
got the new one , it's heat sink was of poorer quality ( no coper core even just cheep tin garbage ) and at $500.00 that I paid for it I damn sure expected coper :shadedshu

my 3850 came with all pure coper heat sink at just $135.00 

people talk their crap about ATI but the openGL problems they were having are a thing of long distant past. 

I'm still having issues with GPU-Z freezing up the computer, if they can't work out their problems with that program with the catalyst 9.1 what makes me think they will take the time to work it out on the newer 9.2 driver set


----------



## Hazar (Feb 22, 2009)

install DD with error... results Tropics Demo Windows7:
DX10.1 4x MSAA
CC9.1 - 34.3Fps 863
CC9.2 - 34Fps 856
Radeon4870, Core2Duo E8400 @ 4000mhz


----------



## Azkeyz (Feb 22, 2009)

( Try some google earth 5.0 for some extra fun if you haven't already. )

Tried the screen saver you mentioned Kiriakost , it's a keeper.

It of course crashed my system because I didn't have the 9.2 loaded to set v-sync ON

seems everything crashes on my system if I don't turn on the V-sync when doing graphic intensive stuff. ( those crazy scan lines then a reboot )

PS. I moded my x-fi like you did with some audio connections from another machine.

Looked and discovered you're one year older than me.

Seems we have simular thinking on many things.

Especialy about holding on to the AGP Pentium 4 platform because of industry price gouging
and new hardware meaning new bugs to deal with like now.

9.2 not causing any problems for me yet, but of course I've not done any testing.

I see we have someone on this thread that likes quake, glguake, quake 3 arena
isn't that what this whole thing has been about. ( the desire to take revenge in quake )
( that was more about ping than hardware if the truth be told )

My prediction is someone will come up with a remake of quake 3 where we can turn more features on or off such as better shadows and or HDR , like they tried to do to glquake 1 and tenebra ( no 2.0 release to date ) - ( quake 4 can jump up and kiss my big white marshmellow but ) lol

It's sad that these days I seem to be spending more time working on issues than being able to enjoy games.

All the games I have take place in the directx 9.0 realm
I don't have anything that plays with directx 10 
even if I did , here we go again with the need for 2Gigs of ram and a dual core or greater.

Omega drivers ? well ok they worked prety well in some situations but honestly I don't like to have to use a driver set made by some third party where you still don't know whats actually going on.

I can't help but think in the back of my mind that we serious computer users got crapped on the second we started trusting hardware/software vendors to do the job for us.
now it seems we've been robbed of the ability to solve our own problems at the hardware/software level. ( back when you could look at everything for yourself )
( it's become a cut throat business where everything is hush hush )

it gives me the same feeling as those damn cold heat soldering irons where you paid 30 quid only to have the tip break the third time you use them ...


----------



## Azkeyz (Feb 22, 2009)

9.2 working normaly for me in XP 32 , quake 3 plays excellent at 125FPS normal for that game.

I could mention that with 9.1 I didn't have any issues in doom 3 with 1.3.1 patches and all that applied.

This all feels like I'm beating a dead horse , because the hardware is new and the software is new
I should cut the industry some slack on this.

At this point I can truely tell myself I have no serious issues with my setup.

If anything is going wrong for me at this point , it's my own damn fault.

as for reports by some people of lower performance with certan things
when you consider all the fail safe messure and situations where the hardware
tired to protect it's self by slowing down it's understandable.

I'm not one of those over clock people who do it just for bragging rights.
a small over clock is ok in my books , but huge overclocks just shorten the life span of the hardware.

I saw a report over on ati forum about the 9.2 driving the temps way up on a system with stock cooler .. but that hasn't happened with mine. ( told them to get some heatpipes this is 2009 for heaven sake where they now sell cards with stock heatpipe coolers )

-----------

I don't like over ridding a games code with the drivers just to get a feature.
if the game doesn't support the new feature best to leave things alone.
aka force the game programmer to add the feature.

-----------

something interesting , in xp I see the smart guart , in vista I don't see that at all
thats one thing that burns my cookies is when you have a well established feature that gets taken away with no explainations.

I hate to rant but who are these people testing their AGP VDDQ voltage with a multi meter
they never tell how that would be accomplished and under what circumstance.

and I've saw where the signaling is 0.8 for AGP 3.0 where as the 1.5 volt is the VDDQ voltage
I can sort of understand that , but can't find any documentation any place that tells me
what the AGP voltage to the 3850 SHOULD be. ( so I'm still in the dark on that one. )

When I installed the 9.2 I didn't have to go through no BS about uninstalling the previous driver package, the new package took care of that as it should ...
I can only justify manual removal of the old drivers if something went totaly wrong ...
I'd be totaly shocked to see a driver package that didn't uninstall the previous package before it installed.

well now I'm off to check CPU-Z 0.3.2 with cat 9.2 , which I'm sure will crash.
the only reason I'm tryin to use GPU-Z is to check the video bandwidth which I'm sure could be done a myriad of other ways.

not sure I wanna try final reality demo with v-sync OFF for a better score.

and speed tree demo has the leeves all stripped off of the trees ( a code issue I'm sure )

Don't they know we will try to run everything out there to see if it works on our stuff lol

end rant lol


----------



## silkstone (Feb 22, 2009)

Thanks - I got the drivers installed - These ones randomlly stop working on my comp, like the 9.1's did, too


----------



## Azkeyz (Feb 22, 2009)

For: Silkstone 


After looking over your posted system specs
I noted your memory 1066 is operating at only 1006 


That could be your whole problem right there


----------



## kiriakost (Feb 22, 2009)

Azkeyz said:


> it gives me the same feeling as those damn cold heat soldering irons where you paid 30 quid only to have the tip break the third time you use them ...


Get an ANTEX  made in England    




Azkeyz said:


> I hate to rant but who are these people testing their AGP VDDQ voltage with a multi meter
> they never tell how that would that be accomplished and under what circumstance.
> 
> and I've saw where the signaling is 0.8 for AGP 3.0 where as the 1.5 volt is the VDDQ voltage
> ...



Forgive the new people .... they do not know about ASUS+AGP+I875 or I865 technical in depth specs . 
I run my AGP voltage to 1.7v , because voltage is shared also with the North bridge , and looks to help  my board mostly in stability with four DDR dims loaded . 
The 3850 does not looks to need that voltage at all  .  





Azkeyz said:


> not sure I wanna try *final reality demo* with v-sync OFF for a better score.



Oh my, you are close to my age


----------



## silkstone (Feb 22, 2009)

Azkeyz said:


> For: Silkstone
> 
> After looking over your posted system specs
> I noted your memory 1066 is operating at only 1006
> ...



Only reason i'm running it that low is because the latest bios won't allow me to run it at 1066 and i can't roll back 
I don't really see how it would affect the video card drivers tho??


----------



## Drizzt5 (Feb 22, 2009)

eidairaman1 said:


> ask Wile E on a little app that forces Crossfire.



Why? Crossfire works for me.


----------



## Super XP (Feb 22, 2009)

Drizzt5 said:


> Why? Crossfire works for me.


The only drivers which game me CrossfireX problems were CAT 8.11 & 8.12. So I was stuck with CAT 8.10 for at least 3 months +.


----------



## RevengE (Feb 22, 2009)

I just updated the drivers and I like them so far.


----------



## truehighroller1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Super XP said:


> The only drivers which game me CrossfireX problems were CAT 8.11 & 8.12. So I was stuck with CAT 8.10 for at least 3 months +.




I have two 4870 1GB cards in Crossfire and everything has been awesome for me so far with these new drivers.  GTA IV has been running awesome for me and so has COD 4 and Left 4 Dead and burnout paradise. No CTDs and no glitches that I can notice, no lag or, frame drops that seem apparent any way.


----------



## DRDNA (Feb 22, 2009)

xRevengEx said:


> I just updated the drivers and I like them so far.



Yes Sir they are doing okay so far ..everything for me has shown higher FPS and smoother...also less tearing (almost totally eliminated altogether)


----------



## InnocentCriminal (Feb 22, 2009)

I'm about to install the 9.2's on my own rig... AGP FTW!


----------



## Azkeyz (Feb 22, 2009)

silkstone said:


> Only reason i'm running it that low is because the latest bios won't allow me to run it at 1066 and i can't roll back
> I don't really see how it would affect the video card drivers tho??




Sorry to hear about your bios issues that bites 

I've never heard of a bios situation where you couldn't roll back ...

Yes I know it may seem strange but memory issues of any kind can stop the whole show before it ever starts.

It you have a situation where your bios is downclocking the memory thats not a bad thing per say , 1066 and 1006 is almost like saying PC133 downclocked to 100Mhz or more interestingly like saying DDR400 downclocked to 799.9

There exists the slight possibility that your power supply may not be strong enough
I say slight like 10% chance. it does look a little under powered for the hardware you're running. ( farther information and testing required on that )

I'm trying my best to offer you at least some thoughts on this because I sure get an uncomfortable feeling when there is hardware not working in the world some place.
( it's my paranoid schizophrenia lol )

This all could be because of an incorrect voltage to the memory or timming issues or voltage or just plain defective memory bit.

I realise you may not want to go through the head ache of running some Memtest86 or other memory diagnostic programs , but that may be the only way you can verify that the memory is working correctly.

It can seem like memory is ok and everything working when in reality the memory is not setup correctly
which reveals it's self in many ways such as a single program fails to operate properly while everything else is working fine.

Installing a program can poke the memory in such a way that it causes an error if the memory is not set up correctly.

( trust but verify  )

Keep brain storming , I'm here for you buddy


----------



## InnocentCriminal (Feb 23, 2009)

I blue screened about an hour into Left 4 Dead - I can't wait to build a new PC. Not long til I'm paid!


----------



## silkstone (Feb 23, 2009)

Azkeyz said:


> Sorry to hear about your bios issues that bites
> 
> I've never heard of a bios situation where you couldn't roll back ...
> 
> ...



Ok thanks buddy. I have my memory timings pretty tight (5-5-5-12 perf level4) so it could be that. It's strange that the vidoe driver only stops responding while im browsing, i need to test it in some games. It just did it a gain a moment ago and the text on the page was garbled for a second (my card isn't overclocked as it's in 2d mode)


----------



## Steevo (Feb 23, 2009)

No AVIVO again, no H264 or AVCHD support for transcoding. Good job ATI, at this rate I will buy a Intel CPU and a Nvidia GPU so I can transcode my videos faster on my common hardware, that you advertised as working, and then failed to deliver pushing it back to the CPU. 


I am really getting annoyed on their support, I have asked as have many, when the features will be available they advertised.


http://www.techpowerup.com/63966/AT..._Video_Files_Simultaneously_in_Real-Time.html


Whoops, not so much!!! 

Note: in order to enjoy speed gains while transcoding you will need to install the ATI Avivo™ converter from the ATI website


----------



## Azkeyz (Feb 23, 2009)

silkstone said:


> Ok thanks buddy. I have my memory timings pretty tight (5-5-5-12 perf level4) so it could be that. It's strange that the vidoe driver only stops responding while im browsing, i need to test it in some games. It just did it a gain a moment ago and the text on the page was garbled for a second (my card isn't overclocked as it's in 2d mode)




Ah HA !!! that explains perfectly , now listen carefully , some will argue with me on this I'm sure but here is what I know ...

if you see ANY and I mean ANY artifacts on your screen you may have a defective video chip or it may be dying a heat death , thats not just blowing hot air thats the honest truth

Artifacts include
black dots
garbled textures
smearing

and ask the question if you are using factory cooler. I emediately yanked off that factory cooler on my new card and put on an after market cooler because I learned that lesson the hard way with the 6800 ultra oc I had that died a thermal death all because of a crappy stock cooler. ( and they pride themselves on using the highest quality parts bah what what liars you are nVidia .. ) ( that was a painful $500.00 lesson )

Please observe the fact that todays cards are being sold with heatpipes not the crappy 
slow fan stock coolers we've been used to , the industry got wise and got sick and tired
of having to replace heat dammaged chips.

I've also killed an S3 Savage IV AGP card by running glquake , even with serious cooling modifications. 

the fact that you say the text was suddenly garbled when you were browsing
indicates a heat problem.

just because you think that in 2D you are not stressing the video chip, that is a false assumption
the video chip could very well be about to die a heat death and it won't get any better.

please verify all this by telling me what your idol temps look like. 

if you are seeing 40 to 45 idol , it could be time to start being worried.

people don't realise how easy it is to kill a video chip 
they are ALOT more delicate than people realise
a few days of running at the wrong temperatures and it could be all over.

I'm even scowering the internet trying to find out what the recommended AGP VDDQ voltage should be for these people who have a 3850 AGP , yours is PCI eXpress so you may or may not need to consider that kind of factor.

For the record I've never killed a CPU

Heatpipes forever baby


----------



## silkstone (Feb 23, 2009)

No it's the gigabyte card, it has a zelman cooler on it. idle temps are fine - 47/48/49C I Believe it is just the drivers because as soon as they restart everything is fine again. i have also been playing games no problem. i'll try a benchmark now.


----------



## Wile E (Feb 23, 2009)

silkstone said:


> Only reason i'm running it that low is because the latest bios won't allow me to run it at 1066 and i can't roll back
> I don't really see how it would affect the video card drivers tho??


It won't unless your ram is unstable.


----------



## silkstone (Feb 23, 2009)

Azkeyz said:


> Sorry to hear about your bios issues that bites
> 
> I've never heard of a bios situation where you couldn't roll back ...
> 
> ...



Thanks i think you were right. i just tried 3d mark 06 - on low setting it runs fine, as soon as i bumped them up to highest i got a blue screen.
I've just loosened my memory timings (i had them insanely tight 5-5-5-12 perf-3) and now 3dmark06 will run at highest. i'll loop it over night to make sure that that was the problem and it didn't just randomlly start working again.


----------



## Super XP (Feb 23, 2009)

Try running the newest version of Memtest via bios. That is the best way to find out if you have RAM errors.


----------



## kiriakost (Feb 23, 2009)

*New hardware and software ,* *haves always  small little secrets at their background. *

I am a bit confused and happy , with some time delay  i had just realize,
how well the latest " Driver Cleaner.NET " helps systems to recover, from any loss in the performance due multiple driver installations. 

Even if you do everything by the ATI book ........... Even if you never had issues with other VGA drivers ,  * i have to Admit * that Catalysts *are not perfect at uninstalling them selfs* .

I recently got my HD3850 , my system was clean from any ATI drivers ( i had Nvidia ) ,
with the installation of 8.12 , i got a nice clean installation , and the VGA worked perfect. 
After testing other ATI drivers , new or old , i noticed many benchmarking scores down . 
I was afraid that was something wrong with the card ... 

I had even use , an old free version of  Driver Cleaner Pro ... 

No gain, the problem  was still there ... with the  " Driver Cleaner.NET 3.2  " , problem solved ...  it cleaned up the mess , and the video driver started to shine again . 
I tested  8.12  and 9.2  , i did not see any deference at scores that worths to be reported .

But , the bottom line is that i feel bad , because i was supporting the idea that " Drivers Cleanup " , was a not necessary task .
Usually its not ...  but as i said in the beginning  .. " small little secrets at their background "

Thanks for reading that ...


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 24, 2009)

check Tweaksguides.com for ATI and Nvidia Driver Removal techniques.


----------



## Azkeyz (Feb 25, 2009)

Silkstone

48°c degrees Celsius = 118.4°f degrees Fahrenheit
I could fry eggs on that.

I'm going to tell you that my 6800 ultra oc with modified cooler ( removed stock fan cover used larger faster fan ) operated at 45°c and up most of the time and of course higher when loaded those kinds of temperatures killed it. ( and killed alot of other peoples 6800 series cards too )

Now look at my current idol temps on my Sapphire radeon hd 3850 agp with accelero twin turbo cooler (35°c-36°c) ( 75°F-80°F ambient )

Now some will argue that silicone has a 932°F melting point
but that has nothing to do with GPU thermal failure.
look back at the fact that SOME transistors need 70°F in order to ( turn on ) and if you exceeded
80°F to 90°F  they would just quit.

I can't tell you what you should do - I'm only telling you what I've experienced.

It's my humble opinion that ( 100°F + ) can dammage a CPU or GPU and if It's too hot to touch with my hand - it's too damn hot.

I've witnessed some instances with certan P4 CPU where they would simply shut down at 100°F +/- 10%
unless you completely turned off the thermal control in the bios.

Now your video card may be ok with it's current temperatures and should be designed to handle
the kind of temperatures you're seeing but I still feel it's a little high.

You have the final say on this , and it's too soon to make any judgements untill we see what happens.

I went the ( better safe than sorry route this time )

video driver failure sure makes me suspicios of the memory too.

hope you get it worked out soon.

wouldn't it be nice if computers came without problems lol


----------



## InnocentCriminal (Feb 25, 2009)

Azkeyz said:


> wouldn't it be nice if computers came without problems lol



Aren't the problems half the fun?


----------



## Azkeyz (Feb 25, 2009)

Innocentcriminal 

Yes the problems are fun to an extent, but I WOULD like to see more specifications from the manufacturers on basic items like voltage tolerances and other minor stuff that would cut down
on some of the silly stuff that goes on.


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Feb 25, 2009)

My ratings on temps:

If I can melt solder on the processor / cpu / gpu, then it is too hot.  An Athlon XP and a P4 are the only ones who have met that challenge.


----------



## kiriakost (Feb 25, 2009)

InnocentCriminal said:


> Aren't the problems half the fun?



    Yes it would be , if our life cycle was double


----------



## kiriakost (Feb 25, 2009)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> My ratings on temps:
> 
> If I can melt solder on the processor / cpu / gpu, then it is too hot.  An Athlon XP and a P4 are the only ones who have met that challenge.




Oh ... can i learn please the melting point of solder ... thanks


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Feb 25, 2009)

Lead based is much lower, like 138c.  I still have a third roll of it from way back.  I use rosin based now, but the lead is so much easier to work with!  If I could find more lead based to buy I would!  Rosin is like 200c for melting.


----------



## kiriakost (Feb 25, 2009)

eidairaman1 said:


> check Tweaksguides.com for ATI and Nvidia Driver Removal techniques.



well thats the link , if some ones likes to read .

http://www.tweakguides.com/ATICAT_1.html


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Feb 25, 2009)

My process for removing drivers:

Uninstall
Restart
Run CCleaner
Reinstall
Restart
Run CCleaner
Restart
Profit


----------



## silkstone (Feb 25, 2009)

Azkeyz said:


> Silkstone
> 
> 48°c degrees Celsius = 118.4°f degrees Fahrenheit
> I could fry eggs on that.
> ...




Ok i've changed my mind as to the problem - I had my Vram slightly overclocked (1000 from 933) i'm gussing that everytime it bumped up to that speed it was crashing. As i just put it back to stock an it has run 20 loops of 3dmark06 without problem (and with the core up to 725) soo it seems one of the memory modules on my card has gone slightly bad, need to keep my eye on this to check tho. And i should know better i managed to trash my old 8500gt by running the ddr3 memory wayyy to high (40% overclock)


----------



## Wile E (Feb 26, 2009)

Azkeyz said:


> Silkstone
> 
> 48°c degrees Celsius = 118.4°f degrees Fahrenheit
> I could fry eggs on that.
> ...


You do realize that 100F is only 37C, right? All current cpus and gpus are more than safe at those temps. Hell, 100F water only feels a little warm to us. That temp is nothing.


----------



## InnocentCriminal (Feb 26, 2009)

37°C is the sort of temps I get under load for my CPU.


----------



## kiriakost (Feb 26, 2009)

I get 43C , but at the cost of 3000 rpm    (CPU) 

Thats why i have to collect tomorrow from the post office , one XP-120 and a fan , so to play with .
Both came from UK .. ebay


----------



## Super XP (Feb 26, 2009)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> My process for removing drivers:
> 
> Uninstall
> Restart
> ...


I am stuck in Safe Mode right now. I do exactly what you do everytime a new ATI driver is released. But this time after I uninstalled the 9.1 drivers, after a restart the computer just freezes. Every single time this happens. In Safe Mode, I used CCleaner, then I attempt to install the new 9.2 drivers and it tells me it cannot find device driver? So I am forced to restart which once again it won't let me go into Windows without it freezing on me.

Maybe my CrossfireX config has something to do with this? Just like the crapy 8.12 nightmare drivers.


----------



## Silverel (Feb 26, 2009)

Super XP said:


> I am stuck in Safe Mode right now. I do exactly what you do everytime a new ATI driver is released. But this time after I uninstalled the 9.1 drivers, after a restart the computer just freezes. Every single time this happens. In Safe Mode, I used CCleaner, then I attempt to install the new 9.2 drivers and it tells me it cannot find device driver? So I am forced to restart which once again it won't let me go into Windows without it freezing on me.
> 
> Maybe my CrossfireX config has something to do with this? Just like the crapy 8.12 nightmare drivers.



Gotta install one card first. Take yer bridges off and things should be smoother. Failing that, take the whole second card out...

After you get one working, you should be able to put the other card and/or bridges back on.


----------



## Super XP (Feb 26, 2009)

I will try it out right now, thanks. But I wonder why ATI did not resolve this problem? Cat 9.1 was no problem with both cards installed.


----------



## niko084 (Feb 28, 2009)

Ok, these drivers have pretty much destroyed my Crysis gameplay..

If I overclock my card beyond 650/99* the drivers blow up.
Old 9.1 I was clocking 745/1050 rock stable....

Don't know what they did, I removed and reinstalled the 9.1's everything is fine, removed and installed 9.2's and trash.


----------



## ShadowFold (Feb 28, 2009)

Wow, I guess I'm lucky  been getting nothing but awesome from these drivers.


----------



## Super XP (Feb 28, 2009)

OK I found out my problem, one of my Ram's was loose. Don't know how it got loose but that was the reason why the OS was restarting on me. It's funny because this only happend when I tried to install the CAT 9.2 drivers.


----------



## niko084 (Feb 28, 2009)

Ya, something goofy, 650/1051 I'm solid.
700/1051 it locks... But ONLY in crysis...

Runs 3dmark Vantage and 3dmark06 and supcom's test perfectly fine at my 745/1051.


----------



## Drizzt5 (Feb 28, 2009)

ati drivers make me laugh... 

9.1 = epic FAIL and then all the forums bitch about it being the most horrible driver release ever blah blah

9.2 = pretty damn good for ati drivers.

No consistency at all


----------



## eidairaman1 (Mar 1, 2009)

been there done that before, its hilarious, i do recall some previous drivers being horrible, it happens.
one thing i noticed, Stop complaining here and use the catalyst Feedback program, use AMD forums aswell. Big companies don't always monitor these Tech Forums.


----------



## Frizz (Mar 1, 2009)

InnocentCriminal said:


> Aren't the problems half the fun?



That's pretty damn true, I had a blast getting raid 0 to work, overclocking my CPU, troubleshooting gpu drivers getting games to work on crossfire(Which is easily done by changing exe name now).

When I don't have problems to fix I tend to want to change things in my rig to make it perform/look even better but I end up screwing something up and more problems arise lmao. I can't remember the last time I went hardcore on gaming 

In the end its so much more rewarding!


----------



## InnocentCriminal (Mar 1, 2009)

Exactly!


----------



## Super XP (Mar 1, 2009)

niko084 said:


> Ya, something goofy, 650/1051 I'm solid.
> 700/1051 it locks... But ONLY in crysis...
> 
> Runs 3dmark Vantage and 3dmark06 and supcom's test perfectly fine at my 745/1051.


Just goes to show you how much Crysis taxes our PC hardware to the hilts.


----------



## niko084 (Mar 1, 2009)

Super XP said:


> Just goes to show you how much Crysis taxes our PC hardware to the hilts.



I switch back to 9.1's and clock 745/1050 and get a steady 30ish FPS 1920x1080 Enthusiast, in some area's I can even manage 2x AA.


----------



## Super XP (Mar 1, 2009)

niko084 said:


> I switch back to 9.1's and clock 745/1050 and get a steady 30ish FPS 1920x1080 Enthusiast, in some area's I can even manage 2x AA.


My Sapphire Radeon HD 4870's in ATI's OverDrive shows a max potential OC of 850MHz for the GPU and 2,000MHz for the GDDR5 Mem. The stock GPU speed is @ 750MHz. I can also add another 200MHz on the GDDR5 from the stock speed. 

I've run games at 850MHz on both HD 4870's in CrosfireX and in single card config's with no problems, but once I try to play CRYSIS, the graphics crashes and an ATI display screen comes up telling me that my Graphics has recovered and reset to default. 

But if I OC to 830MHz and not 850MHz with CRYSIS, it runs just fine. Like I said something is wrong with CRYSIS and its game engine, it just requires way too much processing power. Then again, I play every single game in my personal library at Absolute Disgustingly High Picture & Audio Quality. i.e.: (Smoothvision HD plus Adaptive AA @ 24x, AF @ 16x with everything else MAXED to the Hilts  running @ 1920 x 1080p / 60p on my large 46 HDTV.

Left 4 Dead purrs like a pussycat and looks wildly amazing while Crysis looks wildly amazing, it still kills my FPS big time when benching it.


----------



## oli_ramsay (Mar 1, 2009)

I had the same crashes in Crysis with my 4870@ 850MHz in DX10 mode, but as soon as I switched it back to DX9 it was OK.


----------



## Super XP (Mar 1, 2009)

oli_ramsay said:


> I had the same crashes in Crysis with my 4870@ 850MHz in DX10 mode, but as soon as I switched it back to DX9 it was OK.


Yes, same here, but overall it defeted the purpose of having a DX10 game and card. This is why I would rather run my HD 4870 @ 830MHz Rock Stable in DX10 with the added DX10 features then DX9 at 850 stable.


----------



## niko084 (Mar 1, 2009)

Super XP said:


> I've run games at 850MHz on both HD 4870's in CrosfireX and in single card config's with no problems, but once I try to play CRYSIS, the graphics crashes and an ATI display screen comes up telling me that my Graphics has recovered and reset to default.



It very well could be Crysis, but as I said it doesn't happen with the 9.1's...

Also I can play supreme commander on dual 1680x1050s maximum settings with that clock without any issues, even while both are zoomed in I get no problems, and that game run like that gets my system way hotter all around then Crysis ever dreamed of.

Doesn't matter too much, I just found it odd, don't know who to blame, and I don't really care, I barely get the time to play games anymore, and I have been playing GRAW2 a lot anyways.


----------



## silkstone (Mar 1, 2009)

DX10 is faster than dx9 anyway right? so the small sacrifice in lower clocks should be made up for by using dx10


----------



## niko084 (Mar 1, 2009)

silkstone said:


> DX10 is faster than dx9 anyway right? so the small sacrifice in lower clocks should be made up for by using dx10



No DX10 is slower.


----------



## Super XP (Mar 1, 2009)

niko084 said:


> No DX10 is slower.


Agreed, because DX10 is a little more complex to work with. It also produces better PQ. By the time DX10 becomes as fast as the already well known DX9, DX11 will be out the door killing them both.


----------



## kiriakost (Mar 1, 2009)

Super XP said:


> Agreed, because DX10 is a little more complex to work with. It also produces better PQ. By the time DX10 becomes as fast as the already well known DX9, DX11 will be out the door killing them both.




Sorry people do you know what in earth is DX10  or DX9  ??  Do you ? 

I will give a simple example . 

DX its like an empty book  . 

The DX9  book had room as 10 pages  

The DX10 book had room for 15 blank pages . 

The blank pages can contain  extra programming code , extra commands , that the game makers  can use .... *if they like so . *

The DX10  its one protocol with many more possibility s, its larger in size and that makes it heavy too .

If programmers does not make use of this empty book ,  the DX10 its exactly the same with the DX9 . 

Did ever the programmers ,  made  full use of DX9 , *No never ... *
*Why?  *  its very time consuming ... 

Will those people use the DX10 ?  *Not  really * 
Why ?   ....  *Its more time consuming than DX9 *. 

What DX do in gaming ?  
Its software commands , that effects color blending . 

What subsystem executes the DX10 ?  mainly the GPU .

If we had a game title , who had full use of DX9 .... 
And the same game title with full use of DX10 .....
*Who will be faster - better frame rates ?  * 

The DX9  my friends ....  smaller book  = less work load .




.


----------



## Super XP (Mar 2, 2009)

Umm, DX10 has the ability to produce a much better and realistic image compared to DX9. 
It takes game developers time to familiarize themselves with something new like DX10.
DX9 getting better FPS vs. DX10 is completely irrelevant. It's the same thing as DX8 vs. DX9.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/pcs/directx-9-vs-directx-10-worth-upgrading-to-vista-for-243099.php
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/487/1/


----------



## kiriakost (Mar 2, 2009)

Super XP said:


> Umm, DX10 has the ability to produce a much better and realistic image compared to DX9.



Wrong .... developers do the job and only if they have to . 




Super XP said:


> It takes game developers time to familiarize themselves with something new like DX10.



Wrong .... excuses from the game developers , that they wish to stay neutral ...
DX9 after all this marketing from Microsoft , looks like old  food , and DX10 looks like new .
Still is the same food . 
Its bad for the reputation of game developers to blast DX10 . 

Plus DX10 its an extension of DX9 , if they have the knowledge of DX9 , 
the extra tools of DX10 , its small pack to learn .  



Super XP said:


> DX9 getting better FPS vs. DX10 is completely irrelevant. It's the same thing as DX8 vs. DX9.



You got mixed again .... All DX  its the same book , with more empty pages . 
The Gaming developers  write in the pages of the book , and only if they like so . 

Like it or not, thats the naked truth ...


----------



## eidairaman1 (Mar 2, 2009)

whats odd is MS continued to update DX9, last redist is from Nov 2008, i wonder if we will expect a Redist for May or something.


----------



## kiriakost (Mar 2, 2009)

If MS does not update  " dll 's " of the DX engine , its because it works,  as is .


----------



## Drizzt5 (Mar 2, 2009)

dx10.1 ftw 

btw when is 9.3 coming? There aren't that many bugs so I was hoping they'd come out with one that makes this perfect... maybe they could fix the dust and skylight bug on nuke for cs:s that has been around since the dawn of ATI.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Mar 2, 2009)

kiriakost said:


> If MS does not update  " dll 's " of the DX engine , its because it works,  as is .



ya to me when i do a driver upgrade i also do a DX upgrade aswell, but i guess they release new updates when needed, as the current DX9API is much larger than at the beginning.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 2, 2009)

niko084 said:


> It very well could be Crysis, but as I said it doesn't happen with the 9.1's...
> 
> Also I can play supreme commander on dual 1680x1050s maximum settings with that clock without any issues, even while both are zoomed in I get no problems, and that game run like that gets my system way hotter all around then Crysis ever dreamed of.
> 
> Doesn't matter too much, I just found it odd, don't know who to blame, and I don't really care, I barely get the time to play games anymore, and I have been playing GRAW2 a lot anyways.


If it crashes at 850 in Crysis, that just means it's not 100% stable. It doesn't matter how many other games work fine at those clocks. If lowering the clocks give stability in any situation, you have an unstable OC.


----------



## Super XP (Mar 2, 2009)

kiriakost said:


> Wrong .... developers do the job and only if they have to .
> 
> Wrong .... excuses from the game developers , that they wish to stay neutral ...
> DX9 after all this marketing from Microsoft , looks like old  food , and DX10 looks like new .
> ...


I'm getting my info from CPU Magazine's Alex St. John which was one of the founding creators of DirectX technology off an older magazine. You may be right but anything new takes time to get familiar with. Game creators are already well familiar with DX9 and are now starting to close the gap with DX10.

But overall, what you are saying if true does sound like something Micro*$*oft would do.


----------



## kiriakost (Mar 2, 2009)

Super XP said:


> But overall, what you are saying if true does sound like something Micro*$*oft would do.



Now you have come close to my thinking ...  MS all ready did what she had planed .
There are a large base of DX9 capable systems , and a smaller one of DX10 capable. 

What it was their job , was to make them capable ,  now its on the developers hand , to  "take and use " anything useful for this capability ..  



.


----------



## Super XP (Mar 2, 2009)

In Micro*$*ofts world its all about the $
I understand your point now.


----------



## Silverel (Mar 2, 2009)

kiriakost said:


> Now you have come close to my thinking ...  MS all ready did what she had planed .
> There are a large base of DX9 capable systems , and a smaller one of DX10 capable.
> 
> That was their job , to make them capable ,  not its on the developers hand , to  "take and use " anything useful for this capability ..



More than enough information here to show that there are indeed large changes between dx9 and dx10. Whether or not games use it is their problem.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/95/2


----------



## niko084 (Mar 2, 2009)

Wile E said:


> If it crashes at 850 in Crysis, that just means it's not 100% stable. It doesn't matter how many other games work fine at those clocks. If lowering the clocks give stability in any situation, you have an unstable OC.



Well, that would be my initial thoughts too, but this is a "driver crash", and again only with the "9.2 drivers", with the "9.1 drivers" everything is perfectly fine. Also Crysis is the only program it has issues with, including numerous stress tests, benchmarks and other games for extended periods of time.

Now ruling out that it is not a perfectly stable clock, but it doesn't seem to fit all in properly. No artifacts, no excessive heat, every other piece of software runs perfectly well.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 2, 2009)

niko084 said:


> Well, that would be my initial thoughts too, but this is a "driver crash", and again only with the "9.2 drivers", with the "9.1 drivers" everything is perfectly fine. Also Crysis is the only program it has issues with, including numerous stress tests, benchmarks and other games for extended periods of time.
> 
> Now ruling out that it is not a perfectly stable clock, but it doesn't seem to fit all in properly. No artifacts, no excessive heat, every other piece of software runs perfectly well.



The point still stands, tho. If it kept crashing, even with lowering the clock, it would purely be a driver issue, but since lowering the clocks fixes it, it's instability, no matter how you look at it. The new drivers may just be more sensitive.

Either way, 20Mhz isn't going to make a real performance difference anyway.


----------



## niko084 (Mar 2, 2009)

Wile E said:


> The point still stands, tho. If it kept crashing, even with lowering the clock, it would purely be a driver issue, but since lowering the clocks fixes it, it's instability, no matter how you look at it. The new drivers may just be more sensitive.
> 
> Either way, 20Mhz isn't going to make a real performance difference anyway.



Well I wont argue the point on the 20mhz either way for sure.

What I don't really understand is how an overclock on the card can cause driver failure and only in a particular application. It's not something I have ever seen before, not a video card blowing the driver.


----------



## Super XP (Mar 3, 2009)

Silverel said:


> More than enough information here to show that there are indeed large changes between dx9 and dx10. Whether or not games use it is their problem.
> 
> http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/95/2


Thanks for the info, I was on MS's website looking for such information. So there is a large difference between the two. I wonder what will DX11 bring to the table, seeing that DX10 has a lot to offer and we havent even tapped into it fully just yet.


----------



## Super XP (Mar 3, 2009)

Interesting!


> *DirectX explained:*
> In general a new version is launched to permit the system to recognize the most modern features of the graphic chips, so it can use these features in case your video card have them, increasing both the 3D performance of the machine and the image quality.
> 
> *DirectX 10 brought Shader 4.0 model.* This model brought an important change in the architecture of graphics chips. Up to DirectX 9.0c-based graphics chips, the chip has separated processing units for processing pixel shaders and vertex shaders. In some circumstances all pixel shader units were being used, the vertex shader units were idle and new pixel shader instructions needed to wait, because all pixel shader processors were busy, even though the vertex shader processors were idle. On DirectX 10-based graphics chips the processing units are generic and can be used to process any kind of information, solving the problem we’ve just explained: on DirectX 10-based video cards instructions need to wait only when all processors are busy, regardless of the kind of instruction. This architecture is called Unified Shader Architecture. DirectX 10 also introduced a new shader type, geometry, and other features to transfer more processing from the system CPU to the graphics chip.


----------



## kiriakost (Mar 3, 2009)

Super XP said:


> Interesting!




     Now you know why i replaced the 6800GT with the HD3850 

I care more for the hardware changes , than DX it self .


----------



## Drizzt5 (Mar 3, 2009)

I don't understand why the cards out now can't support dx11 when it comes out.


----------



## niko084 (Mar 3, 2009)

Drizzt5 said:


> I don't understand why the cards out now can't support dx11 when it comes out.



They maybe able to "technically" but also they may require new "hardware" like Dx10 needs Shader V 4.0...


----------



## Silverel (Mar 3, 2009)

kiriakost said:


> Now you know why i replaced the 6800GT with the HD3850
> 
> I care more for the hardware changes , than DX it self .



DX10 brought about the changes in the hardware requirements as above. Without one, there wouldn't have been another, and we would be at the limit on hardware for DX9 already.


----------



## Super XP (Mar 3, 2009)

I think DX11 will be based on multi-GPU graphics cards. ATI should be releasing a 8 to 10+ GPU graphics card. Not sure if its the RV880 or the RV980.


----------



## kiriakost (Mar 3, 2009)

Silverel said:


> DX10 brought about the changes in the hardware requirements as above. Without one, there wouldn't have been another, and *we would be at the limit on hardware for DX9 already.*




Not true ... or half true .... 

Many years back  , the hardware had to offer support in *Three * widespread protocols.
DX  + Open GL  + Glide ( 3dfx) .   

Now days that .. DX survived ( do not like to get more to it, of how it did that) ..  everything  are easier for the hardware makers . 
I disagree that the DX development pushes ahead the hardware development . 

Its all about cost in the bottom line ,  and the hardware makers do mostly was is cheap to deal with. 

In the museum of   " software hypes that never offered anything " ... 
they are many exhibits  ...  like  MMX  &  shader models , and many more .


----------



## Super XP (Mar 3, 2009)

kiriakost said:


> Not true ... or half true ....
> 
> Many years back  , the hardware had to offer support in *Three * widespread protocols.
> DX  + Open GL  + Glide ( 3dfx) .
> ...


Did you work for MS? 
Where from Greece are you from? I have loads of family in KOS and Tripoli louka.


----------



## kiriakost (Mar 3, 2009)

Super XP said:


> Did you work for MS?



  i can only say that i have study , one certification program MCSE 2000 server. 
But its also a hobby of my , or passion , to study and find the truth over the marketing hypes.   




Super XP said:


> Where from Greece are you from? I have loads of family in KOS and Tripoli louka.



I am from Thessaly , and the city of Volos , the land of Jason and the argonauts .


----------



## Silverel (Mar 3, 2009)

kiriakost said:


> Not true ... or half true ....
> 
> Many years back  , the hardware had to offer support in *Three * widespread protocols.
> DX  + Open GL  + Glide ( 3dfx) .
> ...



That's an opinion in face of the truth. Without DX10 forcing new hardware requirements, hardware would not have a reason to advance. *It is all about cost in the bottom line after all.* Hardware vendors make their money selling the easiest stuff to produce over and over again with very limited changes. Software vendors make their money by selling the dynamic stuff that requires hardware changes, or adds essential (and often 'required') functionality. 

Considering that DX leads the pack in Gaming development by a large margin, it's calling the shots on hardware requirements in the form of DX releases. OpenGL is a minor factor for a handful of niche gaming developers, and Glide is dead.

To dig in even further to prove the fact, take a look at GPU benchmarks. The 1950pro is a DX9.0c card from many years ago. Even to this day it can put up ~90fps in CoH at 16x12 resolution. This is the equivalent of a 9600GSO, or HD3850. Even though the hardware has "significantly advanced", a generations old card can still compete in the DX9 arena. Simply put, because DX9 has not changed, therefore hardware has not changed.

Point being, you *cannot* run a 1950pro in a DX10 game. The closest you can get is emulating DX10 effects in DX9 mode. It simply does not have the HARDWARE capabilities.


----------



## kiriakost (Mar 3, 2009)

Silverel said:


> Point being, you *cannot* run a 1950pro in a DX10 game. The closest you can get is emulating DX10 effects in DX9 mode. It simply does not have the HARDWARE capabilities.



I love quality conversations  ..  in a world loaded with dual cores , and 70-200FPS coming from fresh hardware  . 

I like to believe that few shaders , even  emulated by software, it will not force any system to fall at it knees . 

Ultimate performance = latest only goods . 
High performance =  something that most can have . 
Low performance  =  truly incompatible hardware. ( VGA that does not support DX9 )


----------



## Wile E (Mar 3, 2009)

kiriakost said:


> I love quality conversations  ..  in a world loaded with dual cores , and 70-200FPS coming from fresh hardware  .
> 
> *I like to believe that few shaders , even  emulated by software, it will not force any system to fall at it knees .
> *
> ...



But DX9 cards do fall to their knees trying to run DX10 effects. I think that is the point Silverel is trying to make. DX9 cards simply cannot do SM4 instructions without suffering huge performance penalties.

Therefore, new hardware was needed. That came in the way of the 8800 series with SM4 capabilities.


----------



## niko084 (Mar 3, 2009)

Wile E said:


> But DX9 cards do fall to their knees trying to run DX10 effects. I think that is the point Silverel is trying to make. DX9 card simply cannot do SM4 instructions.
> 
> Therefore, new hardware was needed. That came in the way of the 8800 series with SM4 capabilities.



A DX9 card running Dx10 effects would have to run it all on the gpu woudln't it?


----------



## Wile E (Mar 3, 2009)

niko084 said:


> A DX9 card running Dx10 effects would have to run it all on the gpu woudln't it?



You could probably try to do cpu emulation, but the performance hit would still be ridiculous. 

When DX10 first released, and all those tech demos came out, people hacked them to be able to run on DX9 hardware. Not even the fastest DX9 cards could pull it off without it being a slide show.


----------



## niko084 (Mar 4, 2009)

Wile E said:


> You could probably try to do cpu emulation, but the performance hit would still be ridiculous.
> 
> When DX10 first released, and all those tech demos came out, people hacked them to be able to run on DX9 hardware. Not even the fastest DX9 cards could pull it off without it being a slide show.



Ya, thats what I figured, I wouldn't doubt the slide show, you can beat hardware with software emulation, it just doesn't work... Maybe if you were doing software emulation of Dx8 on new Core2's and I7's but we are talking about a pretty large generation step there.


----------



## kiriakost (Mar 4, 2009)

Wile E said:


> When DX10 first released, and all those tech demos came out, people hacked them to be able to run on DX9 hardware. Not even the fastest DX9 cards could pull it off without it being a slide show.



Can i have  a link please ...


----------



## Wile E (Mar 4, 2009)

kiriakost said:


> Can i have  a link please ...



lol. That was years ago. Good luck digging up those links. Iirc, there were posts in this forum about it. Happy hunting. lol.


----------



## Super XP (Mar 4, 2009)

kiriakost said:


> i can only say that i have study , one certification program MCSE 2000 server.
> But its also a hobby of my , or passion , to study and find the truth over the marketing hypes.
> 
> 
> I am from Thessaly , and the city of Volos , the land of *Jason and the argonauts *.


Oh, Mythology, my favorite which I do believe was for real. I've taken 2 years of Ancient Greek to learn how to read the holly scriptures and mythological readings which were written in Ancient Greek Literature.

I sometimes get people talking about Socrates of KOS Greece, the first Doctor. If my memory serves me well, his teachings and principals are still used today in the School of Medicine and Doctoring.


----------



## kiriakost (Mar 4, 2009)

There is no need to go that back in time ... 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25179338/

http://www.i-politismos.gr/agonauts_foto_eng.html




.


----------



## Super XP (Mar 4, 2009)

Almost every single aspect in regards to Greek Mythology, is based on truth. It happened, just like the sirens, Hercules, Poseidon, Troy, Alexander the Great, Arcilies, the golden fleece etc, what man could not explain back then can be explained with "tomorrows" physics & technology.


----------



## Azkeyz (Mar 21, 2009)

1. Get some memtest86
2. Burn it to a CDR

boot up the computer with the memtest86 cd

If you get a failure on the first pass you could have a bad memory module or just need to clean and reseat the memory.

You can wipe the memory pins clean with a paper towel and some cellulitis ridden cat saliva

Kidding, use human saliva ...


----------

