# 11600K + Z590, unable to overclock RAM on Gear 1 beyond 3200 XMP



## drapos (Nov 28, 2021)

Hi,

I grabbed for cheap a Gigabyte Z590 Vision G and a 11600K.

RAM kit is an old 2x8GB G.Skill Trident Z 3200Mhz CL16-18-18-38 from Hynix.

I am unable to boot this thing even at 3333Mhz Gear 1. Any setting fails entirely to boot and returns me to BIOS without even trying to reach Windows.

I have been playing with Gear 2, and was able to get 3600mhz with the same CAS. But, after reading about this platform, it feels like pretty wasteful to even try on Gear 2 with such a low frecuency.

I went from this results with X.M.P Gear 1:





to this on Gear 2:




with following timmings:




and more or less following voltages (Aida64 reading):




While my interest would be to use Gear 1 as high as possible, I would accept recomendations on any gear. Not really sure if this custom OC is even worth having over X.M.P, looking at negligible benefit on latency. Or if I should try to lower timmings on 3200mhz Gear 1 and that's it.

My goal is to get a rock solid 24/7 configuration with safe voltages.

Thanks for your time and kind regards.


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## dgianstefani (Nov 28, 2021)

Your problem is hynix ram, you'll never get tight timings if you're limiting yourself to gear 1.

I literally have a ryzen system that has 10ns lower latency than your intel monolithic system because you're using hynix ram and I have B die.


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## drapos (Nov 28, 2021)

Just threw same timings at 3200 Gear 1 and 1T without any polish:



(All settings are being checked with TestMem5 for quick stability test before even bother with further considerations).

Not that far from that AMD latency wise now, but bandwidth went pretty bad.

What should I do?

Keep looking to get tighter timings on 3200mhz Gear 1?
Any advice to increase frecuency on gear 1?

Or just keep trying on Gear 2 with higher bandwith and mediocre to bad latency?

Thanks!


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## dgianstefani (Nov 28, 2021)

You keep asking what to do. I told you. Get B die or be satisfied with what you have.


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## drapos (Nov 28, 2021)

Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate your input.

But I'm trying to fine tune what I have, just a humble build. And learn how thing works with modern setups in the way.

Will keep your advice for a future, more ambitious, build.

=)


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## AlwaysHope (Dec 3, 2021)

OP, I have a similar setup & find pushing as high as you can with gear 2 in bandwidth can help overcome latency issues & of course watch your read/write/copy speeds benefit no doubt. Don't be afraid to up the Vdimm.


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## GerKNG (Dec 3, 2021)

when you are able to reach higher frequency with Gear 2 it's your IMC.

bump up that VCCIO/VCCSA to 1.2V each and look if it helps.


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## RJARRRPCGP (Dec 3, 2021)

drapos said:


> Just threw same timings at 3200 Gear 1 and 1T without any polish:
> View attachment 226899
> (All settings are being checked with TestMem5 for quick stability test before even bother with further considerations).
> 
> ...


Using Windows 11? I guess you should try 10, if you are. I keep wondering if Windows 11 is interfering with AIDA.


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## AlwaysHope (Dec 3, 2021)

GerKNG said:


> when you are able to reach higher frequency with Gear 2 it's your IMC.
> 
> bump up that VCCIO/VCCSA to 1.2V each and look if it helps.


I just leave mine on auto voltages cause' I'm lazy atm. Even then I could boot & run MT86 with 32GB kit @ 4400MHz.


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## GerKNG (Dec 3, 2021)

AlwaysHope said:


> I just leave mine on auto voltages cause' I'm lazy atm. Even then I could boot & run MT86 with 32GB kit @ 4400MHz.


of course because it completely goes crazy with these voltages at auto and you can easily kill your CPU with these high frequencies and auto voltages.
Overclocking RAM with the Z390 Aorus Master // buildzoid blunders his way to 4533MHz on 32GB of DDR4 - YouTube


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## AlwaysHope (Dec 3, 2021)

GerKNG said:


> of course because it completely goes crazy with these voltages at auto and you can easily kill your CPU with these high frequencies and auto voltages.
> Overclocking RAM with the Z390 Aorus Master // buildzoid blunders his way to 4533MHz on 32GB of DDR4 - YouTube


The topic is about RAM & overclocking it, not the CPU.


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## GerKNG (Dec 3, 2021)

AlwaysHope said:


> The topic is about RAM & overclocking it, not the CPU.


 correct.
this is about RAM. and killing your IMC when you have no clue what you are doing.


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## AusWolf (Dec 3, 2021)

Official RAM support is 3200 MHz for your CPU. There's nothing surprising about your findings. When someone can push their RAM higher in gear 1, that's just luck.

RAM overclocking is overrated anyway.


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## Outback Bronze (Dec 3, 2021)

AlwaysHope said:


> The topic is about RAM & overclocking it, not the CPU.



He means you can still kill your CPU with high VCCIO & VCCSA voltage. Please be careful.


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## AlwaysHope (Dec 3, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> He means you can still kill your CPU with high VCCIO & VCCSA voltage. Please be careful.


So you think modern motherboards with updated bioses stuff up auto voltages? like they want the user to destroy their equipment, that'll be good for motherboard manufacturer's industry reputation & warranty returns. 
It also depends on how the mobo vendor implements their bios values for performance. Some are more aggressive than others with those voltage values. Tells you something about how much faith the mobo vendor has in their product.


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## Outback Bronze (Dec 3, 2021)

AlwaysHope said:


> So you think modern motherboards with updated bioses stuff up auto voltages? like they want the user to destroy their equipment, that'll be good for motherboard manufacturer's industry reputation & warranty returns.
> It also depends on how the mobo vendor implements their bios values for performance. Some are more aggressive than others with those voltage values. Tells you something about how much faith the mobo vendor has in their product.



Yep, I've seen too many high voltages on Auto bios over my time especially while overclocking.

I reduce them to protect CPU and also reduce heat...


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## ir_cow (Dec 3, 2021)

Memory overclocking is not guaranteed. Assume these are Hynix CJR. The lowest CL is 16 and those ICs max out around 4000 MT/s.

If I was you and needed to overclock, I would just do 16-21-21-38 @ 3600. Probably only need 1.35V. For the CPU I would  set the VCCIO(2)/VCCSA to 1.3v with Gear 1. If it boots and passes stability tests. Go back and lower the SA to 1.2v.  If that works, do the same for the IMC (VCCIO/2).

The IMC on the 11th gen is a lottery. For my 11900K, DDR4-3600 is the limit for Gear 1:1 and REQUIRES 1.3v on the IMC. Some people get luck and have CPUs that can do 4000.


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## drapos (Dec 13, 2021)

AlwaysHope said:


> OP, I have a similar setup & find pushing as high as you can with gear 2 in bandwidth can help overcome latency issues & of course watch your read/write/copy speeds benefit no doubt. Don't be afraid to up the Vdimm.


I have to check how far can I get on Gear 2 with these dimms indeed!


GerKNG said:


> when you are able to reach higher frequency with Gear 2 it's your IMC.
> 
> bump up that VCCIO/VCCSA to 1.2V each and look if it helps.


Tried up to 1.3V on them both with no luck. It doesn't boot beyond 3333 on gear 1 at all, even with pretty loose timings.


RJARRRPCGP said:


> Using Windows 11? I guess you should try 10, if you are. I keep wondering if Windows 11 is interfering with AIDA.


Windows 10. I don't want to add another variable yet.


AusWolf said:


> Official RAM support is 3200 MHz for your CPU. There's nothing surprising about your findings. When someone can push their RAM higher in gear 1, that's just luck.
> 
> RAM overclocking is overrated anyway.


Yeah, it is more about being enthusiastic than for any real benefit.


ir_cow said:


> Memory overclocking is not guaranteed. Assume these are Hynix CJR. The lowest CL is 16 and those ICs max out around 4000 MT/s.
> 
> If I was you and needed to overclock, I would just do 16-21-21-38 @ 3600. Probably only need 1.35V. For the CPU I would  set the VCCIO(2)/VCCSA to 1.3v with Gear 1. If it boots and passes stability tests. Go back and lower the SA to 1.2v.  If that works, do the same for the IMC (VCCIO/2).
> 
> The IMC on the 11th gen is a lottery. For my 11900K, DDR4-3600 is the limit for Gear 1:1 and REQUIRES 1.3v on the IMC. Some people get luck and have CPUs that can do 4000.


Tried those voltages, did nothing. It is like this thing doesn't scale up with voltages. I know BIOS setting is working because I need to raise VCCIO2 +0,03v and Dimm +0,1v to achieve the following stable:








Can do 14-16-16-32, but with a pretty hefty voltage increase, so I don't find it worth it at all.

I started with high voltages as suggested until I was able to stabilize as tight as possible, then I was amazed at how much voltage I was able to reduce afterwards..

A side effect is that, after undervolting SA/VCCIO2 from XMP values, it shaved like ~3W from CPU package power consumption on idle. Go figure.

I still think I'm doing something wrong and should be able to get more frecuency on gear 1 given how easily the dimms overclock on Gear 2.

Thanks everyone for your feedback!


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## RandallFlagg (Dec 13, 2021)

I doubt you are going to get much better than what you have on that RAM.  

In my experience, about 50000MB/s and 50ns is the best that DDR4-3200 can do.   If you are shooting for higher clock speed you'll probably have to raise tRFC and lower tREFI, which winds up being self-defeating in terms of latency because even if you get to DDR4-3600 you've only added 12% to clock speed but will probably have to introduce 20% or more to latencies.  You'd also need to raise SA/VCCIO2 and so on.


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## AlwaysHope (Dec 13, 2021)

OP, there is F6 bios for your board. I would suggest check OC potential with that. 
I'm testing a 16GB kit of CJR on my Z590 now with 4400 speed@1.45vdimm & F6 bios.


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## drapos (Dec 13, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> I doubt you are going to get much better than what you have on that RAM.
> 
> In my experience, about 50000MB/s and 50ns is the best that DDR4-3200 can do.   If you are shooting for higher clock speed you'll probably have to raise tRFC and lower tREFI, which winds up being self-defeating in terms of latency because even if you get to DDR4-3600 you've only added 12% to clock speed but will probably have to introduce 20% or more to latencies.  You'd also need to raise SA/VCCIO2 and so on.


I see.

At this point is a trade between bandwidth and latencies.

Would need to check carefully app by app, but I think I'm more comfortable with lower latencies and slight undervolt for 24/7. These CPUs need every Watt you can remove from them.

Kinda dissapointed, though. Wasn't aiming for any world record, but thought that 3600 G1 should have been done easily.


AlwaysHope said:


> OP, there is F6 bios for your board. I would suggest check OC potential with that.
> I'm testing a 16GB kit of CJR on my Z590 now with 4400 speed@1.45vdimm & F6 bios.


I have already updated to F6, as you can see on my last screenshot. I lost all the profiles I was working on, but no improvement on RAM OC.

Could you share your findings?


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## AlwaysHope (Dec 14, 2021)

drapos said:


> I have already updated to F6, as you can see on my last screenshot. I lost all the profiles I was working on, but no improvement on RAM OC.
> 
> Could you share your findings?



What screenshot? the only I see in this thread is Aida64 one from you indicating F5.

I can share the findings when I finish memtestpro @ 400% coverage, a work still in progress atm.

Update: finally completed over 400% coverage....


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## drapos (Dec 15, 2021)

AlwaysHope said:


> What screenshot? the only I see in this thread is Aida64 one from you indicating F5.
> 
> I can share the findings when I finish memtestpro @ 400% coverage, a work still in progress atm.
> 
> ...


Whops, something happening with attachments.

I can't see your screenshot neither.


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## AlwaysHope (Dec 16, 2021)

I'd re up load that image but the option to edit my post is absent.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Dec 16, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Your problem is hynix ram, you'll never get tight timings if you're limiting yourself to gear 1.
> 
> I literally have a ryzen system that has 10ns lower latency than your intel monolithic system because you're using hynix ram and I have B die. View attachment 226889
> 
> View attachment 226890



What voltage you got on that ram? i have B die, mines 3800 16/16/16/36 1.4v


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## AlwaysHope (Dec 16, 2021)

Tigger said:


> What voltage you got on that ram? i have B die, mines 3800 16/16/16/36 1.4v


Hynix is not Samsung B die. The chips are from two different manufacturers.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Dec 16, 2021)

AlwaysHope said:


> Hynix is not Samsung B die. The chips are from two different manufacturers.



I know, i was asking dgianstefani what dram voltage he has on his ram for the ram speed and timings he has on his B die. Wouldn't mind seeing if mine will do it.


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## AlwaysHope (Dec 16, 2021)

Tigger said:


> I know, i was asking dgianstefani what dram voltage he has on his ram for the ram speed and timings he has on his B die. Wouldn't mind seeing if mine will do it.


Because the OP platform, like mine is on rocket lake. Those cpus have the best DDR4 memory controller out there today. So it makes sense to flog them as far as you can with gear 2. Enough bandwidth without "too loose" timings will definitely help to counteract latency penalty from that gear. The handicap however is more Vdimm & in some cases more fiddling with other voltages in the bios.

Ok, here's a repost of that image from this post  edit button still not coming up on that post. Note, I also have a static OC on the cores & the uncore ratio as well but this is with CJR. 



There's also a great comparison here  between Hynix DJR & B die in gear 1 & 2.


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## drapos (Jan 14, 2022)

Turns out BIOS is bugged.

If I manually select Gear 1, it will not boot. But then, selecting Auto will do the trick:




From time to time, when manually setting values, it will stop booting, forcing me to restore defaults and start over.

Crappy BIOS that probably will not be ever fixed with Alder Lake getting all the attention, but at least I can squeeze this somehow.


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## Raven Rampkin (Jan 16, 2022)

Everything you've described, from working timings to occasional no POST after changes to problems with gear (on older Intels, the fun lay with command rate on these really), sounds like Hynix MFR.  So yea, awesome if you managed to get them to 3600 Gear 1! And nothing to advise more. That's pretty much where MFR caps anyway. Or around 3466 on Ryzen (any, that I've seen).
Lil request: next time you peek inside the rig, mind the stickers on the modules. G.skill embeds chip revisions in 042... format codes and has been doing that since 2017. The last letter (occasionally digit) is the revision. The code for 8Gbit MFR would end in something like 8820M or 8821M.


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## drapos (Jan 18, 2022)

Raven Rampkin said:


> Everything you've described, from working timings to occasional no POST after changes to problems with gear (on older Intels, the fun lay with command rate on these really), sounds like Hynix MFR.  So yea, awesome if you managed to get them to 3600 Gear 1! And nothing to advise more. That's pretty much where MFR caps anyway. Or around 3466 on Ryzen (any, that I've seen).
> Lil request: next time you peek inside the rig, mind the stickers on the modules. G.skill embeds chip revisions in 042... format codes and has been doing that since 2017. The last letter (occasionally digit) is the revision. The code for 8Gbit MFR would end in something like 8820M or 8821M.


I see, thanks for the inputs.

Kit code is 04240X8825C
Thaiphoon reads H5AN8G8N[C/D]JR-TFC

A bit tired of no post after reboots and long posts due to memory training each time.
Was able to lower VCSSA to 1.248 from over 1.3 from XMP and lower CR1 to 1, but that's it.
Yesterday I was getting closer to stabilize 16-18-18-36 and it is not even booting now.

I don't get how VCCIO2 works. I don't have any read once booted, as everyone else, I guess. And sometimes raising it hurts stability even under 1.2.

At this point, I need much more power consumption on IMC to get this to 3600CL16-19-19-39 G1 than 3200CL15-16-16-34 G1, and the performance is about the same or even lower on some games benchmarks. From ~3W to ~9W according to OCCT readings.

At this point I might change the approach and go high frecuencies on Gear 2 instead.


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## fevgatos (Jan 18, 2022)

Rocket lake is notorious for not being able to oc memory at gear 1. My 11600k was doing 3333 max, managed to tight them down to c12, around 43ns latency was the best i could manage. Dont overdo it with volts on io and sa, it is pointless, wont do anything



AlwaysHope said:


> Because the OP platform, like mine is on rocket lake. Those cpus have the best DDR4 memory controller out there today. So it makes sense to flog them as far as you can with gear 2. Enough bandwidth without "too loose" timings will definitely help to counteract latency penalty from that gear. The handicap however is more Vdimm & in some cases more fiddling with other voltages in the bios.
> 
> Ok, here's a repost of that image from this post  edit button still not coming up on that post. Note, I also have a static OC on the cores & the uncore ratio as well but this is with CJR.
> View attachment 229081
> ...


Rocket lake having the best imc?? Lolno, thats cometlake. 

Rocket lake run high speeds at gear 2, meaning the imc is running at half speed. Gear 2 is terrible for gaming, 4500c16 gear2 is slower than 3333c12 gear 1


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## AlwaysHope (Jan 19, 2022)

fevgatos said:


> Rocket lake having the best imc?? Lolno, thats cometlake.
> 
> Rocket lake run high speeds at gear 2, meaning the imc is running at half speed. Gear 2 is terrible for gaming, 4500c16 gear2 is slower than 3333c12 gear 1


It's got a better, meaning higher bandwidth than Ryzen, that's for sure. Perhaps that's why the world record for DDR4 was set on RL & Z590 ?    Gaming perf is not all bound by latency, copy plays a significant part & high copy speeds can only be found with high bandwidth. When your running 3333 CL12, how much vdimm are you pumping through that & prove to be stable?
Up to 1.5v is fine for VCCIO2, but will vary from chip to chip... silicon lottery!


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## fevgatos (Jan 19, 2022)

AlwaysHope said:


> It's got a better, meaning higher bandwidth than Ryzen, that's for sure. Perhaps that's why the world record for DDR4 was set on RL & Z590 ?    Gaming perf is not all bound by latency, copy plays a significant part & high copy speeds can only be found with high bandwidth. When your running 3333 CL12, how much vdimm are you pumping through that & prove to be stable?
> Up to 1.5v is fine for VCCIO2, but will vary from chip to chip... silicon lottery!


You are very freaking confused. There is a difference between memory speed and IMC. The IMC on rocket lake is SHIT. The world record was set on Gear 2, meaning it was running the IMC at half the speed. Case in point, a 10900k easily runs 4500+ memory gear 1. The 11900k does not. Usually can't even surpass 4000. The record could not have been set on a 10900k cause intel didn't have gear mode, the IMC had to run 1:1 with the memory


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## AlwaysHope (Jan 20, 2022)

fevgatos said:


> You are very freaking confused. There is a difference between memory speed and IMC. The IMC on rocket lake is SHIT. The world record was set on Gear 2, meaning it was running the IMC at half the speed. Case in point, a 10900k easily runs 4500+ memory gear 1. The 11900k does not. Usually can't even surpass 4000. The record could not have been set on a 10900k cause intel didn't have gear mode, the IMC had to run 1:1 with the memory


Errr... no, your the one confused. So what if its in gear 2 at over 7,000MT/S, still going to crap on the CL IMC with outright ram performance. You still haven't offered any proof of 3333MT/S CL12 as stable, its just words.


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## fevgatos (Jan 20, 2022)

AlwaysHope said:


> Errr... no, your the one confused. So what if its in gear 2 at over 7,000MT/S, still going to crap on the CL IMC with outright ram performance. You still haven't offered any proof of 3333MT/S CL12 as stable, its just words.


If it's in gear 2 your 7000 mhz ram means that the imc is runing at 1/4 the speed. So that's 1750mhz. On comet Lake the IMC can get anywhere between 2200 and 2500. Rocket lake's IMC is weak and can't get those numbers. I don't how else to explain it to you...


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## puma99dk| (Jan 20, 2022)

I sadly got the exact same board Gigabyte Z590 Vision G just with a Intel Core i7-11700K and Gigabyte told me to contact Geil Dragon DDR4 which is the maker of my RAM since I am unable to run XMP with my mixed kit (Hynix and Samsung B-Die kit).

I ran these mixed kits with XMP a Intel Core i7-8086K in a AsRock Z3x0 Taichi board and aswell on 2 AM4 boards with AMD Ryzen 9 5900X the 2 board was MSI B450 Gaming and Asus ROG Strix B550-A Gaming never missed a beep.

Now that I have stopped using XMP and is on the lateste Bios my Gigabyte Z590 Vision G board is running great with everything on stuck only thing disabled is onboard audio since I use a Steel Series Arctis Pro Wireless.

I am just disappointed at Gigabyte's Z590 Vision G it's a beautiful board, great features and overall design but the compatibility and Gigabyte's disappointing support makes me want to find another board but there ain't many good looking white boards out there at a good price.

I in generally don't buy Asus anymore too expensive for what you get and weird selections of components and features for prices unless you go all in and their warranty is up and down no matter if it's a cheap or overpriced expensive thing you buy.


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## AlwaysHope (Jan 24, 2022)

fevgatos said:


> If it's in gear 2 your 7000 mhz ram means that the imc is runing at 1/4 the speed. So that's 1750mhz. On comet Lake the IMC can get anywhere between 2200 and 2500. Rocket lake's IMC is weak and can't get those numbers. I don't how else to explain it to you...


No, half speed. No way its a 1/4. Even if it was doing 6000 or even 5000 CL20 it will still beat CL. RL is also superior with PCIe bandwidth cause' of PCIe v4 for graphics & 1 M.2 slot. Also, lets not forget its 19% improvement on IPC over CL according to Intel.


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## Mussels (Jan 24, 2022)

AlwaysHope said:


> So you think modern motherboards with updated bioses stuff up auto voltages? like they want the user to destroy their equipment, that'll be good for motherboard manufacturer's industry reputation & warranty returns.
> It also depends on how the mobo vendor implements their bios values for performance. Some are more aggressive than others with those voltage values. Tells you something about how much faith the mobo vendor has in their product.


Yes.
They still do that.


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## fevgatos (Jan 24, 2022)

AlwaysHope said:


> No, half speed. No way its a 1/4. Even if it was doing 6000 or even 5000 CL20 it will still beat CL. RL is also superior with PCIe bandwidth cause' of PCIe v4 for graphics & 1 M.2 slot. Also, lets not forget its 19% improvement on IPC over CL according to Intel.


Oh gosh you are clueless. Gear 2 means the IMC is running at half the speed of the ram. The actual speed of the ram, not the datarate. What you are quoting is the datarate, 6000 is not the speed of the ram. So with a 4000c16 kit, the speed of the ram is 2000 and the IMC runs at 1000 in gear 2.

You were talking about the IMC and now you changed it into PCie speeds and IPC....The IMC of the Rocket lake is worse. Period. You were wrong, admit it and let's move on. Also the 11th gen loses to gaming to 10th gen in most games. That's also a fact.Cometlake can run 4400-4500 ram at gear 1 with latency below 37ns. You can't do that on rocketlake. Again, period.


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## AlwaysHope (Jan 25, 2022)

fevgatos said:


> Oh gosh you are clueless. Gear 2 means the IMC is running at half the speed of the ram. The actual speed of the ram, not the datarate. What you are quoting is the datarate, 6000 is not the speed of the ram. So with a 4000c16 kit, the speed of the ram is 2000 and the IMC runs at 1000 in gear 2.
> 
> You were talking about the IMC and now you changed it into PCie speeds and IPC....The IMC of the Rocket lake is worse. Period. You were wrong, admit it and let's move on. Also the 11th gen loses to gaming to 10th gen in most games. That's also a fact.Cometlake can run 4400-4500 ram at gear 1 with latency below 37ns. You can't do that on rocketlake. Again, period.


I suggested PCIe speeds & IPC because when a user games, they don't just rely on ram performance.
What was that you were saying again about how crap RL is with gaming?? Have a look at this chart done at 1080p... RL = no.3 (no OC) CL = no.8 (no OC). I rest my case.




If your going to run a CL rig with the 4400-4500 ram you mention, how high IMC & RAM voltages do you have to run to make this claim that CL is better than RL in gaming, at least at 1080p??


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## ShrimpBrime (Jan 25, 2022)

drapos said:


> I see, thanks for the inputs.
> 
> Kit code is 04240X8825C
> Thaiphoon reads H5AN8G8N[C/D]JR-TFC
> ...


If you want SK Hynix to fly, 1.35v is all you really need. IO/SA 1.1v should be dandy as could be.
But the real deal is running command rate 2 and loosen the timings. They'll probably do over 4000mhz. Low latency really won't be a thing here though.

My 2667mhz (XMP profile actually) topped out at 3800mhz (SK Hynix) but with crazy loose timings. What I found interesting is that they weren't to bad on latency. 

I say keep cracking at it. NVM the latency, go for bandwidth.


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## fevgatos (Jan 25, 2022)

AlwaysHope said:


> I suggested PCIe speeds & IPC because when a user games, they don't just rely on ram performance.
> What was that you were saying again about how crap RL is with gaming?? Have a look at this chart done at 1080p... RL = no.3 (no OC) CL = no.8 (no OC). I rest my case.
> 
> View attachment 233815
> ...


Is he running 4500 ram on the graph? No. So what's the point? 

Ram voltages aren't an issue, you can do it with 1.5-1.55. Had it running for years. IMC & SA around 1.25 and 1.22. Nothing dangerous. Im sorry but it's just a fact, cometlake are better than rocket.


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## Taraquin (Jan 25, 2022)

A small tier list of IMC at full speed aka gear 1 or synced IF (very few end up above or below):
1. Comet lake 4000-4800
2. Renoir 4200-4600
3. Alder lake DDR4 3400-4300
4. Ryzen 5000 3600-4200
5. Ryzen 3000 3600-3866
6. Ryzen 2000 3466-3800
7. Rocket lake 3200-3866
8. Ryzen 1000 3200-3733


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## fevgatos (Jan 25, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> A small tier list of IMC at full speed aka gear 1 or synced IF (very few end up above or below):
> 1. Comet lake 4000-4800
> 2. Renoir 4200-4600
> 3. Alder lake DDR4 3400-4300
> ...



Yea, pretty much this. I mean Rocket lake has a similar IMC to skylake from 2014. Kaby and coffeelake could all hit over 3466.


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## AlwaysHope (Jan 28, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Yes.
> They still do that.


Depends on mobo. For example my Aorus Ultra would apply 1.45v for SA with same cpu/ram but then my MSI Unify with again, same cpu/ram would apply 1.35v for SA with both boards set to auto in bios.


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## drapos (Jan 28, 2022)

ShrimpBrime said:


> If you want SK Hynix to fly, 1.35v is all you really need. IO/SA 1.1v should be dandy as could be.
> But the real deal is running command rate 2 and loosen the timings. They'll probably do over 4000mhz. Low latency really won't be a thing here though.
> 
> My 2667mhz (XMP profile actually) topped out at 3800mhz (SK Hynix) but with crazy loose timings. What I found interesting is that they weren't to bad on latency.
> ...



Good to know and great OC, thanks for the inputs.
I have been obsessed with both Gear 1 and CR1, should give CR2 a try.

Anyway, I just stabilised this when Bios F7b poppped:






A lot of clear CMOS were needed because of the erratic behaviour explained before.

Left tREFI as default, because I want a 24/7 config as I mentioned and heard it might be dangeorus and bring data corruption even when passing all tests.
SA needs almost 1.25v, what I feel is a bit on the high side.
VCCIO2 makes no difference, unless set up too low (1.0v).
L3 lost some performance from default.

Anyway, I should have been paying more attention to performance changes, instead of looking for prettier numbers. I will do next time.

This weekend I hope I have time to check if new BIOS makes any difference.


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## ShrimpBrime (Jan 28, 2022)

drapos said:


> Good to know and great OC, thanks for the inputs.
> I have been obsessed with both Gear 1 and CR1, should give CR2 a try.
> 
> Anyway, I just stabilised this when Bios F7b poppped:
> ...


Yeah, that's a high system agent voltage, but my Asus will set 1.40v with XMP for what ever stupid reason. So realistically system agent at 1.250v shouldn't hurt anything.

VCCIO 1.152v (bios set 1.1150v)
System Agent 1.148v (Bios set 1.1150v)

Is what I had used in the screen shot above which when I swapped the kits was the same I run 4000mhz cl16 with a set of b-die I have. For your reference of course. 

Looser Trfc and Trc you won't need to push the Vdimm much or at all. 
Also to note, the above stopped OC at 3800mhz. It wouldn't post any faster to windows. More v-core did nothing, looser timings went to crazy loose to make it worth while.


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## drapos (Feb 1, 2022)

New bios was a complete mess. I can't get same settings stable anymore.

I can pass Tm5 Extreme1, OCCT small, large and Memory tests 1 hour with increased voltages, but no matter what, medium fails at 30~40 minutes.

Reboots still failing most of the times.

Got tired and set gear 2 until a new bios fix this or I'm forced to downgrade to old one.


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## puma99dk| (Feb 2, 2022)

@drapos I been thinking about dropping my Geil Dragon DDR4 RAM and buying either a Crucial or G.Skill kit that's on the QVL list for 3200 or 3600MHz and call it day but not sure how much performance grain I will get and if it's worth my money.

It's a shame that Gigabyte have let me with a feeling that if you don't get ram we officially have on our QVL they work like my kits have done with Asus and MSI in the past with AMD and Intel.

I am seriously thinking about dropping Gigabyte as a motherboard vendor and stick with Asus, AsRock and MSI but there different things that does that Gigabyte is worth to consider when it comes to features but not anymore I am done personally until Gigabyte changes their ways and make better memory support even for non-QVL and yes I know XMP is still a overclock.


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## v0lcano (Feb 5, 2022)

drapos said:


> Turns out BIOS is bugged.
> 
> If I manually select Gear 1, it will not boot. But then, selecting Auto will do the trick:
> View attachment 232373
> ...


I'm glad to see I'm not alone to encounter these issues. I have a Aorus Z590 Elite AX and bios F6, I'm trying to downclock my 4000 DDR4 to 3600 and tighten the timings a bit but it seems changing any setting  even the slightest --> no boot.
More surprisingly, it seems the same voltage settings = different results. Sometimes it'll boot with 1.1 SA, after a reset it sometimes won't post with less than 1.18 SA with the same settings.

Did you ever find a fix for this ? Did you try reverting back to an previous bios version?


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## drapos (Feb 7, 2022)

The only workaround I found is as following:

Perform changes > Fails to boot > Enter Bios when prompted to do so > Exit and save changes without changing anything at all > Boot.

Some changes forced this way might only survive cold reboots, but fail on soft reboots, even when tested fully stable.

High speeds on Gear 1 are pretty unreliable on this system. Board is not happy and it shows.

Also, at some point, it is like some hidden setting gets corrupted or something. Force defaults and reload your profile, or even clear CMOS and reload profile, when the board gets too angry and start not being reasonable.

Good luck!


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