# Accidental build on the AsRock Z68



## itgoesto11 (May 15, 2012)

I am totally lost.  My son wanted to build a gaming computer and so he did all this research, and I bought him the parts... yeah I know.  Don't EVEN go there please.  Thing is, I was under the impression that I had a couple of friends who knew how to do this, so when I called them for help, poof!  They disappeared into the woodwork.  So today I figured out 4 beeps were due to the Bios needing to be updated for the Ivy Bridge after realizing the 4 beeps we got yesterday weren't fixed by going and replacing a non-compatible DRAM (by ONE friggin' serial code)  He ordered the X instead of the L or something...  so I'm in yet another computer store buying some crap tweezer tool that actually only managed to crack the Bios, that sucker is not coming out.  So I tell my son I'm going to take the whole damn thing over to the manufacturer in Chino (3hr roundtrip) so they can reprogram or replace the Bios, but he wants to take this honking huge fan off the CPU first so he can put the motherboard back in the anti-static bag.  He's nuts with this anti-static thing.  He's so grounded you'd think he was a Tesla coil.  Anyway that fan is stuck on the CPU like glue, big surprise considering the thermal paste that's on it.  So I told him to re-secure the fan and he accidentally dug his fingernail into the motherboard and left a dent - he thinks.  I don't see it, but ..... how sensitive are these boards?  Honestly, I'm thinking the next thing I'll need to do is take that fan off because at this rate it's not like the CPU is actually going to work do you think?  And I'm not a noob to be honest, I would be insulting noobs by calling myself a noob. I'm sure you techs have another name for what I am, but can someone out there with a reasonable sense of humor and patience just talk me through this build with some dignity???  Because right now I feel I'm just one Martini away from 4.


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## sneekypeet (May 15, 2012)

quick answer is most boards wont flash without a CPU that works with that bios. Some of the newer boards will flash the BIOS without a CPU, but I am unsure which do.

As for a fingernail denting the PCB, I don't think so, but you can easily push a screw driver through a layer or two. 

Seems you are sort of stuck, I mean you can make the three hour trip to have ASrock use their techs to flash it for you, seems like something a good PC shop could do local though.


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## Aquinus (May 15, 2012)

itgoesto11 said:


> He's nuts with this anti-static thing. He's so grounded you'd think he was a Tesla coil.



Hehe, there is method to this madness, but I do agree, some people go a little too gung-ho when it comes to anti-static bags and discharging static before messing with hardware and such. Honestly, it's good practice.

Could you give us a list of all the hardware in the rig?


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## Solaris17 (May 15, 2012)

itgoesto11 said:


> I am totally lost.  My son wanted to build a gaming computer and so he did all this research, and I bought him the parts... yeah I know.  Don't EVEN go there please.  Thing is, I was under the impression that I had a couple of friends who knew how to do this, so when I called them for help, poof!  They disappeared into the woodwork.  So today I figured out 4 beeps were due to the Bios needing to be updated for the Ivy Bridge after realizing the 4 beeps we got yesterday weren't fixed by going and replacing a non-compatible DRAM (by ONE friggin' serial code)  He ordered the X instead of the L or something...  so I'm in yet another computer store buying some crap tweezer tool that actually only managed to crack the Bios, that sucker is not coming out.  So I tell my son I'm going to take the whole damn thing over to the manufacturer in Chino (3hr roundtrip) so they can reprogram or replace the Bios, but he wants to take this honking huge fan off the CPU first so he can put the motherboard back in the anti-static bag.  He's nuts with this anti-static thing.  He's so grounded you'd think he was a Tesla coil.  Anyway that fan is stuck on the CPU like glue, big surprise considering the thermal paste that's on it.  So I told him to re-secure the fan and he accidentally dug his fingernail into the motherboard and left a dent - he thinks.  I don't see it, but ..... how sensitive are these boards?  Honestly, I'm thinking the next thing I'll need to do is take that fan off because at this rate it's not like the CPU is actually going to work do you think?  And I'm not a noob to be honest, I would be insulting noobs by calling myself a noob. I'm sure you techs have another name for what I am, but can someone out there with a reasonable sense of humor and patience just talk me through this build with some dignity???  Because right now I feel I'm just one Martini away from 4.




welcome 

first can you give us a list of the parts? and possibly someware on the bored it might have a bios revision painted on.

As for the CPU fan/heatsink I know what you mean by stuck. the trick their is to make sure its unclipped and twist the cooler gently from left to right while pulling on it a tad more then gently. as for the grounding I guess he is getting a little more into it then he should. but with parts like that i imagine he is doing it because he wants to make sure you know he appreciates it. If my parents bought me a PC like that when I was a kid id probably be in a hazmat suit even if I didnt say thank you.


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## Aquinus (May 15, 2012)

Solaris17 said:


> welcome
> 
> first can you give us a list of the parts? and possibly someware on the bored it might have a bios revision painted on.
> 
> As for the CPU fan/heatsink I know what you mean by stuck. the trick their is to make sure its unclipped and twist the cooler gently from left to right while pulling on it a tad more then gently. as for the grounding I guess he is getting a little more into it then he should. but with parts like that i imagine he is doing it because he wants to make sure you know he appreciates it. If my parents bought me a PC like that when I was a kid id probably be in a hazmat suit even if I didnt say thank you.



My parents bought me a barebone kit and a celeron from way back when for the first computer I built and after spending money on even a low-end rig they told me to get a job and pay for it myself. This is when I was 15.


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## brandonwh64 (May 15, 2012)

If you have a digital camera, could you take pictures of the damage to the board?


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## itgoesto11 (May 15, 2012)

My son is 13 and I'm so excited for him to be honest.  I can see why people get into building.  I'm a Mac user so I just go to the store and walk out with a much needed warranty.  So thanks everyone, especially to sneekypete who may just have saved me a 3 hour trip... the humor is much needed too!  And as for the hazmat suit and the thanks mom, well if my un-grounded hands go near the thing, you'd think he was going to stab me in the neck, that's the thanks I get. (that's a joke, he's a really good kid... just passionate about this thing as you all probably understand)

His build is:

AsRock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3 Motherboard
Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo Fan
Seasonic X Series 850W Power supply
Sapphire Radeon HD 7870 Graphics card
Intel I5-3570K LGA1155 CPU
Kingston KHX16009D3K2/8GX DD3 DRAM
Cooler Master HAF ATX Case
HD Samsung HD1035J ????
DVD Burn LG GH24NS70 ????
Windows 7 SPI 64 bit operating system (if we're lucky)

And we had to get the very special thermal paste Artic Cooling MX-2... bleh.  The last two items are next in line for me to read about so I'm only up to date with the specs I've read so far.  He picked these components alone with no "priors", so it's his baby, not a kit build.  That's why my "tech" friends bailed on me.


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## Solaris17 (May 15, 2012)

well thats a nice system. However looking it up it seems that the CPU in question is infact supported. though if the bios chip is cracked it does probably need replacing. make sure he puts the ram in correctly it should look like the following.


CPU |:|:

Were |=ram stick present
Were :=no ram stick.

the thing that bugs me is that the motherboard should not beep. every thing i seem to have read says that the motherboard has a digital screen that gives you a code in hex form like 0x04 etc and does not produce a beep code. Ill look into it more though. even though the manual itself also doesnt say anything about beeps maybe someone knows.

EDIT:: as an afterthought make sure he is plugging everything in. the graphics card and the motherboard will need extra power. next to the processor their is a connector were 8 other power wires need to go 2 clusters of 4 that come together as 8.


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## sneekypeet (May 15, 2012)

I have to assume since the mobo doesn't have a built in speaker he used the one that came with the HAF to get audible beep codes


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## Solaris17 (May 15, 2012)

sneekypeet said:


> I have to assume since the mobo doesn't have a built in speaker he used the one that came with the HAF to get audible beep codes



thanks i kinda figured that out you know not having a speaker and getting beeps and all. at anyrate. 

@itgoesto11 iv found that i can only confirm your suspicions. the 4 short beeps lead to 2 possible outcomes. ram error and CPU incompatibility.


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## AsRock (May 15, 2012)

sneekypeet said:


> I have to assume since the mobo doesn't have a built in speaker he used the one that came with the HAF to get audible beep codes



The board shows ( 2 digit clock ) you codes which i believe are in the manual for the error.


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## itgoesto11 (May 15, 2012)

Actually I can't see any damage from his fingernail, although I do know a small sliver of plastic about 1/32" square came off the Bios but it's in an area on the top, part of the casing.  There are threads between the plastic casing top and side and one popped off.  That happened when I used the tweezer tool.  My son will buy everything from now on, because that's good for building character Aquinis, but this build is a gift from my mom who just recently passed away.  As for twisting the fan off the CPU, let's just hope it doesn't come to that....


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## Solaris17 (May 15, 2012)

itgoesto11 said:


> Actually I can't see any damage from his fingernail, although I do know a small sliver of plastic about 1/32" square came off the Bios but it's in an area on the top, part of the casing.  There are threads between the plastic casing top and side and one popped off.  That happened when I used the tweezer tool.  My son will buy everything from now on, because that's good for building character Aquinis, but this build is a gift from my mom who just recently passed away.  As for twisting the fan off the CPU, let's just hope it doesn't come to that....




do you mean the fan itself or the big metal heatsink? I must confess it does sound horrible but im sure many members of the forums can attest that if the heatsink wont come off twisting it is the usual way to go and in most cases actually far better then pulling it, because if you pull to hard bad things tend to happen like cracked mother boards, stripped screws or bent clips and in AMD land processors just comming out of the socket.


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## itgoesto11 (May 15, 2012)

sneekypeet said:


> I have to assume since the mobo doesn't have a built in speaker he used the one that came with the HAF to get audible beep codes



Yep.  Does the fact that it's beeping mean the CPU is operational?  I'm very concerned about having to identify and troubleshoot a DOA component... which is why I joined this forum. We got 4 beeps and a 55 which was a pretty straightforward fix. DRAM was the first change out, now we are working on the Ivy Bridge update.... pulling stubborn tiny pieces off the motherboard, bleh.  What kind of store would be able to boot that update for me?  Some off the rack shop like Radio Shack?  Or a specialty shop?


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## Phusius (May 15, 2012)

Also, the thermal paste that comes with the Hyper 212 is just as good as the MX-2.  Kids will be kids though.  Also, I used to get the 55 error all the time on my Asus Z68, it was my 7970 that was causing it to reboot itself and shut off multiple times, ever since I switched to the gtx 680 no more getting stuck at 55 error and no more rebooting.  

You really need to find someone who knows what they are doing, if your near a major city look for a microcenter and explain your situation, you might get some generous help.

edit:  pulling stubborn tiny pieces off the motherboard... probably a bad idea, the stickers and stuff yeah... but I don't recall pulling anything else off a motherboard ever before.


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## Solaris17 (May 15, 2012)

itgoesto11 said:


> Yep.  Does the fact that it's beeping mean the CPU is operational?  I'm very concerned about having to identify and troubleshoot a DOA component... which is why I joined this forum. We got 4 beeps and a 55 which was a pretty straightforward fix. DRAM was the first change out, now we are working on the Ivy Bridge update.... pulling stubborn tiny pieces off the motherboard, bleh.  What kind of store would be able to boot that update for me?  Some off the rack shop like Radio Shack?  Or a specialty shop?



radio shack couldnt. A speciality shop like microcenter could. or a dedicated PC repair shop. I would call ahead if it was a PC repair shop though. and no to the CPU the motherboard has its own tiny processor that handles the diagnostics before it boots.


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## itgoesto11 (May 15, 2012)

Solaris17 said:


> do you mean the fan itself or the big metal heatsink? I must confess it does sound horrible but im sure many members of the forums can attest that if the heatsink wont come off twisting it is the usual way to go and in most cases actually far better then pulling it, because if you pull to hard bad things tend to happen like cracked mother boards, stripped screws or bent clips and in AMD land processors just comming out of the socket.



Crikey!  The Armageddon Cooler Master ...  

Yes there are two parts, one is a plastic fan that pops off fairly easily, but the copper heat sink is apparently the dismantle I will now pray to avoid.


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## sneekypeet (May 15, 2012)

The speaker just means that the motherboard was somewhat functional. The beeps other than one short beep (indication of post) just mean that something is wrong. The codes the speaker and LED post code display are where you start to look for culprits.

Something that may make life easy is to just e-mail support for ASrock and ask them to send you a new bios chip, with the bios you need already on it (likely at a fee and of course like a day to 3 for shipping). If you were going to try a local shop, you need a PC specific shop, and a well stocked one. They are going to need extra bios chips and the ability to flash it with the correct bios.

If it were me, and I am a touch lazy, I would just get with ASrock and see if they can offer you a cheap-ish fix to the bios chip and version issues.

On topic of the cooler, with the Evo, remove the four screws and remove the top X plate used for mounting. Once that is out of the way spin the cooler 90 degrees and you can feel the paste loose its grip.


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## Phusius (May 15, 2012)

I honestly think the best advice for this lady is not contact ASRock, her best bet is to RMA the motherboard if she bought it off Amazon and claim it was defective.  They pay for shipping and will issue a full refund pretty easily.  

Next step, go to a Microcenter, also you need to be bitchin' at your friends that said would help you build this, cause them bailing on you is kinda bs, especially since building a PC is super easy.  You could probably even go to a place like Frys Electronics and bump into someone shopping the PC isle and explain your situation and ask for help.  I find most PC nerds willing to help the female of the species in any scenario.  xD lulz jk but seriously thats the best advice I can offer


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## sneekypeet (May 15, 2012)

Phusius said:


> claim it was defective.



sorry for not wanting to raise pricing for others and trying to do the right thing


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## Phusius (May 15, 2012)

sneekypeet, I understand what you are saying, but in this case I think an exception can be made.  and honestly, such arguments don't really fly with me, considering coltan is used in most PC parts, and 2/3 of coltan comes from the Congo, and that has caused millions of rapes/deaths in that region over this mineral.

so forget the justice crap imo.  no offense, I researched this a lot in graduate school.


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## sneekypeet (May 15, 2012)

I'm not a big guy on discussing morals, but she says she broke it, and seems willing to do things to fix it the right way. I agree that is easier, but not the thing you will see me say is the right thing to do in my position here at TPU.

Commenting directly to your "exception" comment, they caused the damage, any warranty says that voids the warranty


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## Phusius (May 15, 2012)

Fair enough Sneeky, and I agree, I would prefer not to debate the morals of it all... so tiring and useless, I know from experience lol

You are correct though overall.  I agree and concede.


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## LDNL (May 15, 2012)

Phusius said:


> sneekypeet, I understand what you are saying, but in this case I think an exception can be made.  and honestly, such arguments don't really fly with me, considering coltan is used in most PC parts, and 2/3 of coltan comes from the Congo, and that has caused millions of rapes/deaths in that region over this mineral.
> 
> so forget the justice crap imo.  no offense, I researched this a lot in graduate school.



Not sure if trolling or just trying to derail this thread.

Anyway take the mobo to the nearest place that has some computer expertise and have them check the health and update the bios.


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## itgoesto11 (May 15, 2012)

sneekypeet said:


> The speaker just means that the motherboard was somewhat functional. The beeps other than one short beep (indication of post) just mean that something is wrong. The codes the speaker and LED post code display are where you start to look for culprits.
> 
> Something that may make life easy is to just e-mail support for ASrock and ask them to send you a new bios chip, with the bios you need already on it (likely at a fee and of course like a day to 3 for shipping). If you were going to try a local shop, you need a PC specific shop, and a well stocked one. They are going to need extra bios chips and the ability to flash it with the correct bios.
> 
> ...




The Bios is on back order.  From China.  Several weeks away.  They said to pull ours off and either send it in or bring it in and they will flash it, they sent us instructions on how to remove it, we went and bought a special tool that didn't work so well.  Then the customer service girl told me she couldn't remove it either and she had tech there teaching her!  They then told me to use a flat head screwdriver which is when I said, can I just bring the whole board over to you guys...?  It might be a worthwhile trip since I can meet with an AsRock technician.

How do you check CPU function?


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## Protagonist (May 15, 2012)

@itgoesto11

First welcome to the forum, now i assume that the parts that have some form of warranty! if they do have warranty, have you considered returning the motherboard? i wold consider doing that especially coz of the Ivy Bridge Processor i5 3570K, reason for that is Boards equipped with Z77 Chipset work straight out of the box with the Ivy Bridge Processor, so i would advice take back the board and get an AsRock Z77 equivalent.

Another option would be return the i5 3570K and get a second gen i5 2500K or i5 2550K, or another option would be get a shop near you that can perform the BIOS update for you or where they were bought. Most motherboards need a compatible processor in the motherboard to be able to perform a BIOS update.


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## sneekypeet (May 15, 2012)

if you are having a really tough time lifting the chip out of its socket, maybe the trip is a worthwhile trip. As far as I know, without that board being able to post, you wont be able to test the CPU. For testing the CPU you would need to put it on a board that works with that CPU to test functionality.

In essence you need to get the bios issue resolved to test the CPU at home. Although, if you do make the trip, you may get lucky and the test can test it there on a board he knows is already set to run it. Take the CPU with it and see if he can test boot it there


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## CaptainFailcon (May 15, 2012)

sir ima need you to step away from the computer place the screw driver where I can see it and step back 
first of all if you have damaged the bios chip you're warranty is out the window you will need to obtain a replacement chip from asrock I think there less then 20 bucks
secondly a scratch on the motherboard normally doesn't kill anything (unless you where unlucky and damaged a trace in that case you are SOL)
lastly make sure you release the clips/screws holding the cpu cooler in place 
if you think its the paste holding you up heat it with a hair dryer and don't force it(prays you didn't use the whole tube) 
because if you damage the socket you're build is over until you replace the motherboard -/- you can NOT return something with socket damage they wont take it
and yes by every definition you are a n00b and that's ok first step is accepting it
and yes I don't mean to sound like a ass
but keep the 13 year old away from the ~600 dollar hardware please kids and computers never ends well
and the extreme 3 gen 3 is not Intel I5-3570K(ready) they JUST released the bios update for it rma it and replace it with a 2500K the 2500k runs cooler and overclocks better < owns a extreme 3 gen 3


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## Protagonist (May 15, 2012)

CaptainFailcon said:


> sir ima need you to step away from the computer place the screw driver where I can see it and step back
> first of all if you have damaged the bios chip you're warranty is out the window you will need to obtain a replacement chip from asrock I think there less then 20 bucks
> secondly a scratch on the motherboard normally doesn't kill anything (unless you where unlucky and damaged a trace in that case you are SOL)
> lastly make sure you release the clips/screws holding the cpu cooler in place
> ...




Damn, i wanted to say this but oh well you did it better than i could have written, nicely put. tho it cracks me up how you wrote this nice...


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## CaptainFailcon (May 15, 2012)

www.asrock.com/support/index.asp?cat=RMA
bios is 15.00 + sNh and normally comes preflashed


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## itgoesto11 (May 15, 2012)

Honestly he's been super careful with this build all the way down the line. The fingernail drama is just my son being stressed out.  You see he has no adult authority here.  He's running the show.  There is no reason for me to return this MOBO because it should work.  As for my not being able to remove the Bios properly, I followed the directions they sent exactly as written... the girl in customer service said she couldn't remove it either and she had a tech showing her how.  Anyway, they said if I come in they'll put one on that is compatible with the Ivy Bridge.  So As-ROCKS.  

As a proponent and student of Regenerative Design, the whole concept of the human and environmental suffering resulting from the manufacture of this modern world is of great concern to me, but a computer forum is maybe the last place to be thinking on it.  I won't buy an I-Pad for that very reason.  In fact, I am very selective and do cradle to cradle assessments on most products that I buy.  I'm obviously not yet off the grid on any level.  But the last thing I would do is chuck a perfectly good motherboard into a landfill, and if I find out that something I did screwed it up, I eat the cost. Period.


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## Protagonist (May 15, 2012)

itgoesto11 said:


> Honestly he's been super careful with this build all the way down the line. The fingernail drama is just my son being stressed out.  You see he has no adult authority here.  He's running the show.  There is no reason for me to return this MOBO because it should work.  As for my not being able to remove the Bios properly, I followed the directions they sent exactly as written... the girl in customer service said she couldn't remove it either and she had a tech showing her how.  Anyway, they said if I come in they'll put one on that is compatible with the Ivy Bridge.  So As-ROCKS.
> 
> As a proponent and student of Regenerative Design, the whole concept of the human and environmental suffering resulting from the manufacture of this modern world is of great concern to me, but a computer forum is maybe the last place to be thinking on it.  I won't buy an I-Pad for that very reason.  In fact, I am very selective and do cradle to cradle assessments on most products that I buy.  I'm obviously not yet off the grid on any level.  But the last thing I would do is chuck a perfectly good motherboard into a landfill, and if I find out that something I did screwed it up, I eat the cost. Period.



Nice to hear some progress that's great news, its great that y'all got it figured out, and i hope when the replacement chip comes it will work fine. So keep checking in the TPU forum, you might find interesting information


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## itgoesto11 (May 15, 2012)

CaptainFailcon said:


> sir ima need you to step away from the computer place the screw driver where I can see it and step back
> first of all if you have damaged the bios chip you're warranty is out the window you will need to obtain a replacement chip from asrock I think there less then 20 bucks
> secondly a scratch on the motherboard normally doesn't kill anything (unless you where unlucky and damaged a trace in that case you are SOL)
> lastly make sure you release the clips/screws holding the cpu cooler in place
> ...



Not use a whole tube of thermal paste.... remove the screws holding it down... hmmm, I'll consider that. 

Now for the useful bit of this diatribe.  What does rma mean?  And what is a 2500K?  Are you saying the Z68 extreme3 gen3 won't work even if I get the Bios update?  Or that there is a better board for these components?


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## Phusius (May 15, 2012)

rma means return the item for exchange or refund.

thermal paste is easy to apply, either a size of a pea right in the center of the mobo so it spreads as you put pressure on it or an X formation.

2500k is an older processor.  the bios update needs an older processor in order to update the bios so it can use the new chip it does not recognize.  however, I don't think this is your problem.  I have built 2-3 PC's but I am no expert, it is a shame you don't have someone to help your son with this.  If it helps, LinusTechTips on Youtube, and Newegg on youtube are good places to start.  Type your product name in youtube, you generally get good results and unexpected answers.

edit:  I didn't mean to bring up the issue of coltan, it just kind of happens sometimes, I spent a long time researching it.  amazes me how much of our joy comes from the destruction of something else.  regardless, didn't mean to bring it up to begin with.  take care and I hope you get your PC issues fixed.


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## Protagonist (May 15, 2012)

itgoesto11 said:


> Are you saying the Z68 extreme3 gen3 won't work even if I get the Bios update? Or that there is a better board for these components?



The Z68 extreme3 gen3 will work, and there are better boards for those components, eg check AsRock's website

Check this motherboard
http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=Z77 Extreme9

http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=Fatal1ty Z77 Professional

http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=Z77 Extreme4


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## itgoesto11 (May 15, 2012)

edit:  I didn't mean to bring up the issue of coltan, it just kind of happens sometimes, I spent a long time researching it.  amazes me how much of our joy comes from the destruction of something else.  regardless, didn't mean to bring it up to begin with.  take care and I hope you get your PC issues fixed.[/QUOTE]

No worries I think talking about the environmental impact of the choices we make in what we purchase is a good thing.  And I've had to peel myself up off the floor of my environmental science classes - so depressing.  Anyway, we make better choices when we have good information.  I was however upset by the idea of chucking a perfectly good MOBO - like not being able to tweezer a Bios off - something so minor could have totaled it?


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## Phusius (May 15, 2012)

well if you know how to do those kinds of things... _like not being able to tweezer a Bios off_ then you should know how to build a PC pretty easily.  my answer in regards to returning the mobo was under the assumption you and your son were in over your head with no legit help.


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## itgoesto11 (May 15, 2012)

Phusius said:


> well if you know how to do those kinds of things... _like not being able to tweezer a Bios off_ then you should know how to build a PC pretty easily.  my answer in regards to returning the mobo was under the assumption you and your son were in over your head with no legit help.



I actually used a PLCC paper clip chip extractor.  It looks like a fancy tweezer.  My attempt at humor.  Anyway, I came here to get some outside of the box advice, but I probably shouldn't have started the thread with "I am lost" LOL.  It was a momentary lapse of judgement.  Honestly the Youtube videos and customer support so far have been phenomenal, but when that cooler didn't come off easily I certainly didn't want to tweak the board or the CPU, and I couldn't find any info about how to remove it which worried me as people must have to remove them from time to time - that's when I realized I needed a panel of "experts" who can give me in the trenches advice on the stuff that is not covered in the specs or the manual.  As for in over our head, well maybe, but didn't everyone start here where we are?  With no experience?  As for getting a different board, well my son was on a budget and he stuck very closely to it.  He made some sacrifices, which I think everyone probably understands.  I'll look into the Z77, but that purchase may be down the road. I'd hate to abandon this Z68 anyway, I've grown kind of partial to it.  If the Z68 can be modified to read the same code as the Z77 then? I got the impression the Z77 would run cooler when overclocked, but does that mean the Z68 will fail when overclocked?  I'm not feeling the love here for the Z68 or maybe it's just the combination of the Z68 and the new Intel Ivy Bridge.  I got the impression from AsRock that flashing a Bios was just par for the course with tech advances being what they are.


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## Norton (May 15, 2012)

Good luck on getting that system all together and running... there a large group of folks here willing to help 

FYI- for some light reading when you get your system going- this link below demonstrates that no one is perfect:

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160004&highlight=first+fail


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## itgoesto11 (May 15, 2012)

Norton said:


> Good luck on getting that system all together and running... there a large group of folks here willing to help
> 
> FYI- for some light reading when you get your system going- this link below demonstrates that no one is perfect:
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160004&highlight=first+fail



Norton, where have you been?  I'm off to AsRock.... honestly, I'm seeing this as a grand adventure.  Is it really very easy to fail miserably at this?  No don't answer that question...


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## Protagonist (May 15, 2012)

itgoesto11 said:


> If the Z68 can be modified to read the same code as the Z77 then? I got the impression the Z77 would run cooler when overclocked, but does that mean the Z68 will fail when overclocked? I'm not feeling the love here for the Z68 or maybe it's just the combination of the Z68 and the new Intel Ivy Bridge



Z77 wont exactly run cooler, people suggested that as being an easy way out (Out of the box functionality with Ivy Bridge). Z68 wont fail when overclocked great platform too, its just Sandy Bridge eg i5-2500K overclock better than Ivy Bridge eg i5-3570K, it was not directed at the Z68 mobo, and does not mean Ivy Bridge is bad in fact its better clock for clock performance and uses less power while giving equal or better performance.

I have a Z68 mobo and i love it. it an Intel Desktop Board DZ68BC Extreme Series. 

People suggested Z77 coz of the combination with Ivy Bridge it was an easy out of the box option unlike most Z68.

tho my DZ68BC can run Ivy Bridge Processors, Intel released an update a few days before Ivy bridge was launched so i downloaded and installed it NOTE that i was already running a compatible processor at the time i5-2500K, i updated BIOS for possible future upgrade


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## D007 (May 15, 2012)

itgoesto11 said:


> HonBut the last thing I would do is chuck a perfectly good motherboard into a landfill, and if I find out that something I did screwed it up, I eat the cost. Period.



Nice to hear that.. I see a lot of people trying to find ways to make developers pay for their mistakes, lieing to them, saying "oh it was broken when I got it, etc etc"..  Always good to post some pictures if you can. ^^
GL.

PS; Yes it is easy to fail miserably "If you're not paying attention and you're stress out"..lol.. Just be careful..
If you do get stressed, STOP WORK IMMEDIATELY.. Trust me.. Step away and come back to it later..


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## itgoesto11 (May 15, 2012)

D007;2630432

PS; Yes it is easy to fail miserably "If you're not paying attention and you're stress out"..lol.. Just be careful..
If you do get stressed said:
			
		

> HAHAHAHA, yes stop work immediately.  Wiser words were never spoken.  Actually, I just got back from AsRock and everything is in perfect order, the Bios is updated.  We did not harm it.  In fact watching the guy work with the MOBO I now know we were treating it all too timidly.  The Bios was in perfect shape and now it's updated, check, the CPU operational, check, 8 gigs of DRAM, check... The only problem I now have is that the Technician says not to use the Cooler Master heat sink fan.  He says he's getting MOBO's returned that are damaged from the metal screws that attach these after market fans.  He had a fan in the shop that he recommended because the screws were plastic and it did not need the back plate metal attachment to secure it to the MOBO.  I took pictures of the fan because he didn't have the sku number or manufacturers name.  Can anyone identify this fan?  Or make a suggestion about how to solve this issue?


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## sneekypeet (May 15, 2012)

lame tech is lame, there is no valid reason not to use the cooler you have. If a cooler is installed correctly there is very little chance of damage. I wont recommend you buy a cooler with pushpins, if you want to go that route, use the cooler that shipped with the CPU.


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## Norton (May 15, 2012)

itgoesto11 said:


> HAHAHAHA, yes stop work immediately.  Wiser words were never spoken.  Actually, I just got back from AsRock and everything is in perfect order, the Bios is updated.  We did not harm it.  In fact watching the guy work with the MOBO I now know we were treating it all too timidly.  The Bios was in perfect shape and now it's updated, check, the CPU operational, check, 8 gigs of DRAM, check... The only problem I now have is that the Technician says not to use the Cooler Master heat sink fan.  He says he's getting MOBO's returned that are damaged from the metal screws that attach these after market fans.  He had a fan in the shop that he recommended because the screws were plastic and it did not need the back plate metal attachment to secure it to the MOBO.  I took pictures of the fan because he didn't have the sku number or manufacturers name.  Can anyone identify this fan?  Or make a suggestion about how to solve this issue?



That heatsink isn't as effective as the CoolerMaster unit. Most aftermarket heatsinks will install with no trouble at all.

PM sneekypeet or wait for him to post on the issue, he's one of our resident experts in such things. I would follow whatever advice he offers 

*** EDIT- too late- he's already posted  ***


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## itgoesto11 (May 15, 2012)

sneekypeet said:


> lame tech is lame, there is no valid reason not to use the cooler you have. If a cooler is installed correctly there is very little chance of damage. I wont recommend you buy a cooler with pushpins, if you want to go that route, use the cooler that shipped with the CPU.




From what I saw on the MOBO that was damaged, the guy had tightened the fan down severely.  Under those metal screws there is circuitry that got damaged.  I'm thinking that a snug but not tight mount is the way to go.  It was the same guy who returned two MOBO's with the same damage, the Technician didn't say he was seeing this problem from other customers, so I'm thinking it was the way that particular guy mounted the Cooler Master.  My son says the fan he got is the most popular one on the market, so he wants to stick with it and save up for some kind of liquid system for later.  And Sneekypeet, that fan just came off no problem when the tech did it.  Our problem is that we were being too careful with the components and the MOBO - like it would crumble into dust before our very eyes if we so much as breathed on it.  The Tech pulled the Bios off with a bent nose plier - having the right tool for the job doesn't hurt either.


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## Protagonist (May 16, 2012)

@itgoesto11

Check out my Z68 (DZ68BC), I know the pictures are blurry and not that clear its coz i was using a webcam.
One many reasons why i love my Z68, I'm sure your son will find plenty of things interesting with the AsRock Z68 as-well.
Here are the pictures, i haven't done cable routing yet, and I'll get an after market cooler for overclocking soon


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## n-ster (May 16, 2012)

First off, congrats on the working build

Second BS on keeping the 13 yo far from his baby, uhh I mean PC. Just make sure he understands that if he f**ks up, he's gunna pay out of his pocket (so that he understands that if he wants a baby... uh, custom PC I mean, he's gotta take care of it etc, not a punishment). I built my first rig at 8yo, and payed and bought my 2nd rig at ~17 (put down 2000$ lol). As long as he dos the research etc, its a fun experience.

Third, we love helping people like you, so don't be afraid to ask anything that you couldn't find in a few minutes of googling  Tell your son to join in the Techpowerup fun  lots to learn here. Next time he wants to buy something, run it through here etc, it makes you understand everything so well.

I came to TPU as a real noob who had done maybe 2 hours of research about computers and almost starting a flamewar with my 1st thread lmao, but now I've got a couple dozen build under my belt and am starting to become a veteran  It really is even ore fun building PCs and overclocking etc when you understand what you are doing


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## Aquinus (May 16, 2012)

I think you're being far too generous. My parents stopped with a celeron, there was no way they were getting me hardware that good when I was that young. I hope he realizes how lucky he is.


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## n-ster (May 16, 2012)

When the parents can afford it and afford to spend that much time for it, I don't see too much of a problem to spoil your kids from time to time xD


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## Protagonist (May 16, 2012)

Aquinus said:


> I think you're being far too generous. My parents stopped with a celeron, there was no way they were getting me hardware that good when I was that young. I hope he realizes how lucky he is.



For me it was, you like that? you will have to earn it someday when you start earning your money. Is not that my parents could not afford its that they wanted me to learn the value of things no matter how small and plus we have a huge family 9 kids and i am the third last. Oh well i got the point my parents put across.

The kid is very lucky, for me i would not have it any other way but i would have loved an opportunity like this when i was younger


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## brandonwh64 (May 16, 2012)

I did not read this whole thread but did you ever get the bios updated to support ivy bridge? Also If you do not plan on overclocking then the stock cooler will be fine.


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## MilkyWay (May 16, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> I did not read this whole thread but did you ever get the bios updated to support ivy bridge? Also If you do not plan on overclocking then the stock cooler will be fine.



This... my first thought is that you tried to run an unsupported chip and thats how it wouldnt boot. Asrock only just released its ivy bios update, i have the extreme 3 gen 3 which is a good board. I am not understanding why the bios chip was needed to be removed? Did it get bricked in flashing? So the asrock technician replaced the chip?  Stick with the cooler master cooler if its not broken. You dont need a lot of force to attach it. Stock cooler is made to run fine at stock cpu settings. Hope it worked out fine.


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## techguy31 (May 16, 2012)

itgoesto11 said:


> His build is:
> 
> AsRock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3 Motherboard
> Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo Fan
> ...



That is one nice build for a 13 year old .  I wish I had that money to spend. LOL


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## itgoesto11 (May 16, 2012)

n-ster said:


> First off, congrats on the working build
> 
> Second BS on keeping the 13 yo far from his baby, uhh I mean PC. Just make sure he understands that if he f**ks up, he's gunna pay out of his pocket (so that he understands that if he wants a baby... uh, custom PC I mean, he's gotta take care of it etc, not a punishment). I built my first rig at 8yo, and payed and bought my 2nd rig at ~17 (put down 2000$ lol). As long as he dos the research etc, its a fun experience.
> 
> ...




HAHA, you called it a baby.  When I was driving with my son's rig in the car yesterday I looked over at it and it flashed in my mind, I wonder if I qualify for the carpool lane.  Because it is like a little person.


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## itgoesto11 (May 16, 2012)

st.bone said:


> @itgoesto11
> 
> Check out my Z68 (DZ68BC), I know the pictures are blurry and not that clear its coz i was using a webcam.
> One many reasons why i love my Z68, I'm sure your son will find plenty of things interesting with the AsRock Z68 as-well.
> ...



Very cool... is that skull already on the MOBO or is that something you added?


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## itgoesto11 (May 16, 2012)

Aquinus said:


> I think you're being far too generous. My parents stopped with a celeron, there was no way they were getting me hardware that good when I was that young. I hope he realizes how lucky he is.



His friend has an Alienware double tower thing.... so he's actually slumming LOL.  Talk about spoiled rotten.  I looked at that stuff and was blown away that people could spend so much money on these rigs.  Anyway, I gave him a budget and he combed the net for deals, no tax, etc... this is a gift in memory of my mom who left some money when she just passed away.   She had severe Alzheimer's all his life so she never got to spoil him like grandmother's will...  so this covers all those years of birthdays they both missed out on.


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## m4gicfour (May 16, 2012)

Well I see I showed up just in time to see your success. Good job on doing things the right way.



itgoesto11 said:


> HAHA, you called it a baby.  When I was driving with my son's rig in the car yesterday I looked over at it and it flashed in my mind, I wonder if I qualify for the carpool lane.  Because it is like a little person.


When I take my PC somewhere, I always put it in the backseat of the truck and put the shoulder-belt seatbelt around the case. People who see me do it always look at me funny, at least until I have to stop quick and the PC remains in one piece. 



itgoesto11 said:


> His friend has an Alienware double tower thing.... so he's actually slumming LOL.  Talk about spoiled rotten.  I looked at that stuff and was blown away that people could spend so much money on these rigs.  Anyway, I gave him a budget and he combed the net for deals, no tax, etc... this is a gift in memory of my mom who left some money when she just passed away.   She had severe Alzheimer's all his life so she never got to spoil him like grandmother's will...  so this covers all those years of birthdays they both missed out on.


His friend has a Dell. They bought out Alienware, and it's a subsidiary of Dell now. That makes it sound somehow less impressive, doesn't it?

The Alienware may have superior hardware, but the experience gained from building your own PC is worth far more. Generally speaking, with a set budget you can afford much better hardware if you custom build than you can if you buy a prebuilt, so long as you do the research first.


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## Protagonist (May 16, 2012)

itgoesto11 said:


> Very cool... is that skull already on the MOBO or is that something you added?



The Skull is already on the MOBO, Intel Extreme Desktop Boards have had that skull since 5 series chipset, more in particular the one with LEDs lighting up are 5 & 6 Series Extreme boards, the 7 Series chipset have the skull without LEDs but it has a nice silver finish on it.

The skull lights up blue. The eyes light up red when there's hard disk activity.


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## Norton (May 16, 2012)

itgoesto11 said:


> His friend has an Alienware double tower thing.... so he's actually slumming LOL.  Talk about spoiled rotten.  I looked at that stuff and was blown away that people could spend so much money on these rigs.  Anyway, I gave him a budget and he combed the net for deals, no tax, etc... this is a gift in memory of my mom who left some money when she just passed away.   She had severe Alzheimer's all his life so she never got to spoil him like grandmother's will...  so this covers all those years of birthdays they both missed out on.



  I have both of my grandmothers still after 40+ years and can't even imagine what you went through . My father in-law suffered dearly with Alzeimer's for quite a few years until he passed away.
  You go ahead and spoil him rotten for your mom/his grandma for this special project   She will appreciate it, she won't think it's enough, but she will appreciate none the less.

Oh and his friend with the Alienware is in for quite a surprise when that new build chews his PC up and spits it out... Alienware may be prettier but that doesn't mean better


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## itgoesto11 (May 16, 2012)

st.bone said:


> The Skull is already on the MOBO, Intel Extreme Desktop Boards have had that skull since 5 series chipset, more in particular the one with LEDs lighting up are 5 & 6 Series Extreme boards, the 7 Series chipset have the skull without LEDs but it has a nice silver finish on it.
> 
> The skull lights up blue. The eyes light up red when there's hard disk activity.




I saw a thread where people modify their cabinets to show the electronics...


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## Protagonist (May 16, 2012)

itgoesto11 said:


> I saw a thread where people modify their cabinets to show the electronics...



There are transparent chassis on the market they've been for a long time, i have thought of getting one several times


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## sneekypeet (May 16, 2012)

full acrylic cases are tough to keep clean, make their own static charge, and leave very little in the way of hiding anything, including wires. I much prefer a well placed window over a full on "see-through" case.


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## Protagonist (May 16, 2012)

sneekypeet said:


> full acrylic cases are tough to keep clean, make their own static charge, and leave very little in the way of hiding anything, including wires. I much prefer a well placed window over a full on "see-through" case.



Exactly why i have thought of getting but i haven't got one and frankly i think i wont get one, due to the reasons you mentioned


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## itgoesto11 (May 16, 2012)

His friend has a Dell. They bought out Alienware, and it's a subsidiary of Dell now. That makes it sound somehow less impressive, doesn't it?

The Alienware may have superior hardware, but the experience gained from building your own PC is worth far more. Generally speaking, with a set budget you can afford much better hardware if you custom build than you can if you buy a prebuilt, so long as you do the research first.[/QUOTE]

When you say it like that, I mean Dell is a good product but the word is pretty lame.


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## itgoesto11 (May 16, 2012)

sneekypeet said:


> full acrylic cases are tough to keep clean, make their own static charge, and leave very little in the way of hiding anything, including wires. I much prefer a well placed window over a full on "see-through" case.



I only saw ones with windows, the whole case seems like overkill.  I guess the windows are acrylic too... window cleaner can cause serious static electricity as I used to operate a huge scanner and my hair would practically cross the room to stick to it when I used one product in particular, one with alcohol in it I think.


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## sneekypeet (May 16, 2012)

"cleaners" and acrylic don't mix well in most instances typically I would use micro-fiber and plain old Booby Buchette brand H2O (sorry for the bad waterboy reference). Anything with ammonia will scratch it, and alcohol seems to leave a film on some windows.


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## 20mmrain (May 16, 2012)

I don't know how many of your questions you have answered yet..... but I feel the need to try to answer as many as I can for you.

1. *Updating your BIOS so that a Z68 Motherboard can handle Ivy bridge:* In order to do this you do not need to replace the BIOS chip. All you need is someone you know with a  Sandy Bridge CPU or a workshop with a Sandy Bridge CPU that you can use. 
Once you have a Sandy Bridge CPU you can use.... then it is a matter of installing it. Turning on the computer. Flashing the BIOS with a USB Key Drive or a Floppy Disk. Then Uninstall the Sandy Bridge CPU Install your i5 Ivy Bridge and away you go. 
For directions on how to Flash a BIOS ... just Google it or look in your Motherboard User Manual. If you still are stuck PM me and I will point you in the right direction.
To get the Sandy Bridge CPU: Either call a local repair shop and see if they have one that they will allow you to use. Or see if they will do the flash for you. Worse comes to worse.... buy the cheapest used Sandy Bridge CPU you can find. You should be able to find a cheap i3 or pentium for less then 80 Bucks.

2. *Removing the Heatsink:* I used to own this Heatsink..... all you have to do is loosen the nut underneath the Heatsink (On top of the CPU). Next take a screw driver and loosen the rest of the screws like you would the bolts on car rim. (A little at a time in a criss cross pattern). 
Next remove the little Standoff/Nuts that hold on the back plate. (You will have to turn them a Half turn and then pull them straight out) Last remove the backplate.

3. *Component/Motherboard Anti Static worries:* Motherboards are really well made most of the time. Just like anything else in life they can be damaged. I can tell you that.... I have been building computers for a long time and I am pretty confident that I have never killed a Motherboard from a Static charge. However even if you did.... you would never be able to prove if that is what happened or not. I also can tell you that I have never always been the most careful when it comes to anti static protection either.
I will mention that I am also a Quality Engineering Specialist which works for a large Server manufacturer. Part of my job is to worry about things on the manufacturing floor like Static discharge. I will give you my honest opinion.... while yes it is important to be aware of Static discharge..... as long as you are grounded by one point you don't have to worry about it. So if your son is going over board.... you can tell him one ground is fine for what he is doing. 
In terms of transporting the motherboard in a Anti Static bag.... yes this is important.... especially if you are going to return it to the manufacturer. They will not accept it if it is out of the Anti-Static bag. 
Switching gears... Motherboards/Components are fragile. But they are not so fragile you have to handle them with gloves in a rubber room either. Like anything expect it and you will be fine. But at the same time.... they can take some abuse. (Don't go overboard though remember it is an open circuit board)

4. *Replacing the BIOS chip:* Like I stated above there is no reason to replace the motherboard BIOS chip. A flash is all you need. To replace the mother baord BIOS chip you need special stuff. But if you have already tried and the chip itself is already cracked. All you have done is waist money and void the motherboard warranty. 
Sure there are places out there who can replace the chip for you.... but honestly you would be better off buying another motherboard. If this is the route you have to go..... since you have a Ivy Brdige CPU..... buy a Z77 motherboard. The Z77 motherboard has the chip set specially designed for Ivy bridge and it will not require a BIOS flash to work out of the box.

Last once you get this motherbaord thing fixed. Report back..... so that we can give you an idea on how to correctly assemble your new PC. It is not hard and you can do it.... I promise.....(LOL Plus there is no cutting or soldering involved to assemble one I promise) You just need someone to show you the correct way. 

Sorry if I am too late..... I hope you have already got your questions answered... if not I hope the stuff I listed above helps. Good luck

BTW Just wait till your son gets into water cooling then your in for a real treat  Help him figure out that one


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## Deleted member 67555 (May 16, 2012)

itgoesto11 said:


> HAHAHAHA, yes stop work immediately.  Wiser words were never spoken.  Actually, I just got back from AsRock and everything is in perfect order, the Bios is updated.  We did not harm it.  In fact watching the guy work with the MOBO I now know we were treating it all too timidly.  The Bios was in perfect shape and now it's updated, check, the CPU operational, check, 8 gigs of DRAM, check... The only problem I now have is that the Technician says not to use the Cooler Master heat sink fan.  He says he's getting MOBO's returned that are damaged from the metal screws that attach these after market fans.  He had a fan in the shop that he recommended because the screws were plastic and it did not need the back plate metal attachment to secure it to the MOBO.  I took pictures of the fan because he didn't have the sku number or manufacturers name.  Can anyone identify this fan?  Or make a suggestion about how to solve this issue?



Scythe Katana 3
It's great and cools the CPU, caps and chokes...


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## itgoesto11 (May 17, 2012)

20mmrain said:


> 2. Removing the Heatsink: I used to own this Heatsink..... all you have to do is loosen the nut underneath the Heatsink (On top of the CPU). Next take a screw driver and loosen the rest of the screws like you would the bolts on car rim. (A little at a time in a criss cross pattern).
> Next remove the little Standoff/Nuts that hold on the back plate. (You will have to turn them a Half turn and then pull them straight out) Last remove the backplate.




The technician at AsRock said not to use the Cooler Master and he showed me a damaged board... thing is, I think the person just tightened the fan down too hard.  But could gravity damage it, the fan weighs a lot and I was worried that once it's in the case sideways it will exert some unhealthy pressure on the MOBO.  Maybe we are supposed to secure it, as we haven't gotten that far into the build yet.  My son's has a finger tight mount and I was going to let him keep it as I think it is better option for the CPU than the factory one.  Opinions?  Has anyone had their MOBO wrecked by one of these fans?  My son wants to save for a liquid cooling system... that was his plan... recommendations are welcome, of course by the time he's got that much money they might have a whole new technology.


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## n-ster (May 17, 2012)

Liquid cooling is a pain in the ass IMO lmao.

The cooler master is fine, as you said, you are a bit too scared to hurt the mobo. The guy that damaged the board likely used a power tool instead of hand tightening like a lazy idiot

How m,uch is your son planning to overclock?


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## Sinzia (May 17, 2012)

n-ster said:


> Liquid cooling is a pain in the ass IMO lmao.
> 
> The cooler master is fine, as you said, you are a bit too scared to hurt the mobo. The guy that damaged the board likely used a power tool instead of hand tightening like a lazy idiot
> 
> How m,uch is your son planning to overclock?



finger tight + quarter turn = golden rule for most mounting systems!

I can't believe they want you to take the bios chip out and send it to them, that's just nuts.

Out of curiosity, why not go with a Z77 board? Those are drop-in ready for ivy bridge CPUs.


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## itgoesto11 (May 17, 2012)

n-ster said:


> Liquid cooling is a pain in the ass IMO lmao.
> 
> The cooler master is fine, as you said, you are a bit too scared to hurt the mobo. The guy that damaged the board likely used a power tool instead of hand tightening like a lazy idiot
> 
> How m,uch is your son planning to overclock?



Very good question.  I don't think he really understands the process yet, but I could be wrong.  I don't get it myself, and since I don't game, I don't understand the logic for pushing a system so hard you could burn it out.  So, he's prepared for it, and he built the system to endure it, but I asked him to get a system that didn't require overclocking right away... something he could run and enjoy without it.  I understand it could potentially do a whole lot of damage again, if you don't know what you're doing.


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## brandonwh64 (May 17, 2012)

itgoesto11 said:


> Very good question.  I don't think he really understands the process yet, but I could be wrong.  I don't get it myself, and since I don't game, I don't understand the logic for pushing a system so hard you could burn it out.  So, he's prepared for it, and he built the system to endure it, but I asked him to get a system that didn't require overclocking right away... something he could run and enjoy without it.  I understand it could potentially do a whole lot of damage again, if you don't know what you're doing.



OCing doesn't present damage unless pushed to extremes like over 1.4V and running too hot for too long. He should be able to do 4.4Ghz comfortably with little voltage increase so not much chance in smoking the chip unless he just goes wild with the voltages.


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## D007 (May 17, 2012)

itgoesto11 said:


> HAHA, you called it a baby.  When I was driving with my son's rig in the car yesterday I looked over at it and it flashed in my mind, I wonder if I qualify for the carpool lane.  Because it is like a little person.



Lol, just don't start teaching it how to talk, n take over the world n stuff.. 
Grats on the build n welcome to the forums.



itgoesto11 said:


> Very good question.  I don't think he really understands the process yet, but I could be wrong.  I don't get it myself, and since I don't game, I don't understand the logic for pushing a system so hard you could burn it out.  So, he's prepared for it, and he built the system to endure it, but I asked him to get a system that didn't require overclocking right away... something he could run and enjoy without it.  I understand it could potentially do a whole lot of damage again, if you don't know what you're doing.



You won't burn it out, if you understand what the safe limits are and what is pushing it.
Taking a 3.2 ghz cpu to 3.6 or 4 ghz, is relatively easy and sometimes requires no voltage adjustments at all.
You will still run hotter though, due to electron migration and all, but nominally so.

Take baby stapes, read up on the system in detail, safe voltages, average gains from other people with the same build, overclocking guides, etc..
There's a wealth of info out there.. In 2007 I came here, having only ever played on consoles. These guys gave me a lot of info and now I not only build pc's. I fix other peoples pc's and they pay me to do it..lol..

Ease into watercooling, don't run before you walk imo.. Get comfortable just working in the confines of a pc or you may end up with a multi-thousand dollar paperweight..


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## 20mmrain (May 17, 2012)

itgoesto11 said:


> The technician at AsRock said not to use the Cooler Master and he showed me a damaged board... thing is, I think the person just tightened the fan down too hard.  But could gravity damage it, the fan weighs a lot and I was worried that once it's in the case sideways it will exert some unhealthy pressure on the MOBO.  Maybe we are supposed to secure it, as we haven't gotten that far into the build yet.  My son's has a finger tight mount and I was going to let him keep it as I think it is better option for the CPU than the factory one.  Opinions?  Has anyone had their MOBO wrecked by one of these fans?  My son wants to save for a liquid cooling system... that was his plan... recommendations are welcome, of course by the time he's got that much money they might have a whole new technology.



Liquid cooling is considered by some to be a pain in the ass. Others (like my self) consider it to be a god send. The people who love it... have a hard time going back to air cooling.

I would say if your son gets into bench marking and overclocking.... then yes water cooling will be the way to go. Why???? well while you can get great clocks on air cooled systems..... you can get even better clocks on Water cooled systems. Obviously because it dissipates the heat faster. The other great side to water cooling is the Noise. Or I should say "THE LACK OF NOISE". Right now I can have my CPU overclocked to 5Ghz getting better temps on air.... and when someone talks to me I don't have to keep saying "What?" because my computer sounds like a jet air craft. I'm telling you the hotter the computer gets with air cooling the louder and more fans you need to install to compensate. 
The downside to water cooling is.... it is more complicated to install then Air cooling. There is always that danger of a leak too (Although I have never had a leak) It also costs about as much as a computer by itself. Sure for basic Water cooling set ups you can spend only $125 to just cool the CPU. But to cool your whole computer it is not uncommon to spend over $700 Bucks once everything is all said and done. If not more then that. So you really have to be in to water cooling and overclocking to invest in it. 
My suggestion is ( a little done the road once you and your son get the other basics down ) is to start off by buying just a CPU water cooling kit for around $125.00 (Something like this) and see how you like it. If it works for you keep going and build off of it. 

As far as that heat sink Damaging the Motherboard from its weight and pull from gravity. No it won't .... don't worry about that..... I have had much heavier heat sinks hanging off of motherboards for years without and issue. It will not cause any damage. As a matter of fact .... the Cooler Master Hyper 212+ is a rather lite heat sink when compared to most of the other performance heat sinks out there. 
But yes.... you can install a heat sink too tightly. While it doesn't happen often.... a good rule of thumb is tighten down the heat sink until a little passed snug, You don't want it to be able to work itself loose.....but you don't need it so tight that it's going to bend the CPU pins either (Not really gonna happen just an example.) In fact....you could actually just lay the heat sink on top of the CPU with thermal paste in between.... not tighten it down.... and you would still cool the CPU. 

Just so ya know


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## Phusius (May 17, 2012)

_Very good question. I don't think he really understands the process yet, but I could be wrong. I don't get it myself, and since I don't game, I don't understand the logic for pushing a system so hard you could burn it out. So, he's prepared for it, and he built the system to endure it, but I asked him to get a system that didn't require overclocking right away... something he could run and enjoy without it. I understand it could potentially do a whole lot of damage again, if you don't know what you're doing._

If you know what you are doing you won't burn it out.  I am running at 4.8 ghz and my CPU never gets past 52 Celsius on gaming load, 100% stable 24/7, everything seems to be much snappier at these speeds, minus load times, which I plan to get an SSD soon to fix that.


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## micropage7 (May 17, 2012)

itgoesto11 said:


> From what I saw on the MOBO that was damaged, the guy had tightened the fan down severely.  Under those metal screws there is circuitry that got damaged.  I'm thinking that a snug but not tight mount is the way to go.



i always put some clear tape or put some ring on the board just to prevent any accident and make sure i done myself coz i dont trust if the other do that
so if it tightened it wont push the board too much and prevent any damage on that


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## n-ster (May 17, 2012)

I don't think he'll be doing a high OC or anything so water cooling is a waste of money and time IMO

Noise wise it still does make noise, a Noctua D14 is NOT loud at all... plus if he has headphones on... it really makes no diff


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## 20mmrain (May 17, 2012)

n-ster said:


> I don't think he'll be doing a high OC or anything so water cooling is a waste of money and time IMO
> 
> Noise wise it still does make noise, a Noctua D14 is NOT loud at all... plus if he has headphones on... it really makes no diff



Well on the noise factor.... I disagree.... 10,000 Water cooling enthusiasts aren't wrong or making it up that water cooling creates less noise. ( I would put my PC's noise against any air cooled computer with the same specs)

As far as the overclocking goes..... Ahhh don't be so sure. I will tell you when In taught my self to build computers it was only a month afterwards till I did my first overclock. If his son knows what water cooling is.... along with enough knowledge to recognize the difference between low end and high end hardware and smart enough to get a good cooling heat sink.... I am sure.... it will only be a matter of time until he is experimenting with overclocking. If that's the case.... its better to be informed then not informed. That is how mistakes are made.
And if he doesn't get in to anything like overclocking.... well that's fine.... but at least he knows something about it now.

Plus if you read my earlier posts.... I said right out... "Wait until you and your son learn more about PC's before you get into water cooling and overclocking." 
I also was very honest with the differences between air cooling and water cooling in my previous post. I made it very clear that it is not worth it unless you plan on doing any of the things I mentioned.

Last bro in no way was I suggesting he gets into Water cooling at this point in time.


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## n-ster (May 17, 2012)

I never said WC < AC in noise, I'm just saying the difference ain't as big as some people say it is. WC is not 100% silent, AC isn't always loud


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## itgoesto11 (May 19, 2012)

Thanks everyone for your kindness and support.  I learned a lot from you all, but more importantly I was able to back my son up and stay calm in the process with your support.  He ended up with a beautiful computer that is now up and running.  The only thing he is dealing with now is that when he tries to play the game he downloaded, Alma 2, he gets a blue screen and the computer shuts down, so he is troubleshooting.  I realize it is a process, especially with a first build, but I would highly recommend it to anyone.   I used to be a snow ski racer so I felt a bit like I was back on the hill.  And since my 13 year old did all the work really, kids can rock this process, so don't underestimate them.


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## itgoesto11 (May 19, 2012)

Actually maybe someone can help me figure out how to trouble shoot this problem my son is having... ever since he downloaded the VGA drive his computer has gone to blue screen and shut him down... anyone know how to fix this problem?


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## Protagonist (May 19, 2012)

itgoesto11 said:


> The only thing he is dealing with now is that when he tries to play the game he downloaded, Alma 2, he gets a blue screen and the computer shuts down, so he is troubleshooting. I realize it is a process, especially with a first build,



Blue Screen of Death (BSOD), its normally not a good thing if it appears regularly, how often does it appear? anytime he try's to play the game? has he tried any other games? if so do other games end up with a BSOD?

What does the BSOD indicate, take a picture of the BSOD, or write what it say mostly words towards the bottom it could help diagnose if there are bad drivers or faulty failing hardware.


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## Protagonist (May 19, 2012)

itgoesto11 said:


> Actually maybe someone can help me figure out how to trouble shoot this problem my son is having... ever since he downloaded the VGA drive his computer has gone to blue screen and shut him down... anyone know how to fix this problem?



Check this thread http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165193 does the BSOD display information like this?


Use this method http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52502 to remove current drivers and try earlier version, eg 12.3
he can even try removing the card and placing it back in again, it helps sometimes if the card was not well sited in the PCI-E slot


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## n-ster (May 19, 2012)

st.bone said:


> *B*lue *S*creen *o*f *D*eath (BOSD), its normally not a good thing if it appears regularly, how often does it appear? anytime he try's to play the game? has he tried any other games? if so do other games end up with a BOSD?
> 
> What does the BOSD indicate, take a picture of the BOSD, or write what it say mostly words towards the bottom it could help diagnose if there are bad drivers or faulty failing hardware.



BSOD.... not BOSD

sry it just drives me nuts seeing BOSD so many time lmao


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## Protagonist (May 19, 2012)

n-ster said:


> BSOD.... not BOSD
> 
> sry it just drives me nuts seeing BOSD so many time lmao



Thanks, I type so fast dint notice or could be I had "Left Brain - Right Brain Conflict"







"The brain is divided into two halves (hemispheres).
Usually, the left half of the brain controls the right side of the body.
The right half of the brain controls the left side of the body."

from http://www.doctorhugo.org/brain3/brain3.html


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## n-ster (May 19, 2012)

I'm usually no nazi about mispelling but idk it just irked me today xD

Does the BSOD happen with any other games? What message does the BSOD give?


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## itgoesto11 (May 19, 2012)

st.bone said:


> Blue Screen of Death (BSOD), its normally not a good thing if it appears regularly, how often does it appear? anytime he try's to play the game? has he tried any other games? if so do other games end up with a BSOD?
> 
> What does the BSOD indicate, take a picture of the BSOD, or write what it say mostly words towards the bottom it could help diagnose if there are bad drivers or faulty failing hardware.



Blue Screen of Death?  Please.    I'm going to bed:shadedshu  Computer 10, me 0


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## CaptainFailcon (May 19, 2012)

the first thing you should check after getting a new build running and are getting bsods is to make sure the memory is running at its specd timings and voltage
and its near on impossible to kill a cpu by overclocking unless you
1. extremely overheat it temps in excess of 90c for sustained periods are bad
2. run stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuooopid levels of voltage


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## Protagonist (May 19, 2012)

itgoesto11 said:


> Blue Screen of Death? Please.



Yes Blue Screen of Death, its been known by that name for many years


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## CaptainFailcon (May 19, 2012)

st.bone said:


> Yes Blue Screen of Death, its been known by that name for many years



doesn't mean death anymore just means something gone and derpd


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## CaptainFailcon (May 19, 2012)

also bsod's after installing gpu drivers mean one of three things
1. the driver is not compatible with whatever the game wants it  todo (common with shotty freeware games)
2. defective card OR lack of Power overheating
3.ulps/powersaving clock state changing bugs (common with ATI/AMD hardware)


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## Aquinus (May 19, 2012)

CaptainFailcon said:


> also bsod's after installing gpu drivers mean one of three things
> 1. the driver is not compatible with whatever the game wants it  todo (common with shotty freeware games)
> 2. defective card OR lack of Power overheating
> 3.ulps/powersaving clock state changing bugs (common with ATI/AMD hardware)





CaptainFailcon said:


> doesn't mean death anymore just means something gone and derpd



There is an edit button, don't post multiple times, it is against the rules.



> 3.ulps/powersaving clock state changing bugs (common with ATI/AMD hardware)


I've owned a lot of AMD/ATi video cards and this has never been an issue.



> the driver is not compatible with whatever the game wants it  todo (common with shotty freeware games)


You have that backwards, the game interacts with some 3D API, not the video card directly, it's more likely that the game has a bug in the programming, rather than the video card not supporting the game, and if it is the driver, it's an issue with the driver's interface with whatever 3D api it is using (DX9-11, OpenGL, etc.)


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## itgoesto11 (May 19, 2012)

Aquinus said:


> There is an edit button, don't post multiple times, it is against the rules.



oops.  This is a fact I did not know, apparently. Noobs:shadedshu


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## itgoesto11 (May 25, 2012)

Thanks everyone, now the BSOD Blue Screen of Death seems to be gone...  he's been up and running almost a week with no issues, cross fingers.  I could not have done it, gracefully, without you.


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