# My First Build: For Online Gaming & Producing Music



## the_professor (Oct 13, 2008)

Hello world!

Before I get into the list of computer guts I've researched so far I thought I'd introduce the idea of what I'm looking for. I'll split this post up into 3 different sections for quick reference.

*1. What I've done so far.*

My budget is flexible though I'm consider maxing out at around $1,500 or $1,600 if it is possible (for the goodies that I'm looking for). The current components/parts that I've been looking at have totals ranging from $1,300 to $1,600 before taxes (mostly from newegg.com). I'm not really sure where to go to get the best deals. I asked someone at a local computer shop about newegg and they said they probably can't beat or match newegg's prices.

I've been doing research and I will continue to do research. So far it has included mostly online digging.

I've also been doing price comparisons on all the "guts" of the computer and will keep comparing prices as I modify my list.

I've been asking around, online and in person, though these forums look like an excellent place to get gobs of great advice.

Once I decide on the parts/components that I'll purchase I'll go ahead and get them, though I will also continue reading several "how to build a computer" websites. Though, I have yet to find the absolutely perfect "howto" guide for building, they all seem to be missing something or out of date.

This is really an exciting thing, my new computer is going to be another one of my babies. I look forward to the whole experience and of course I hope to goodness I don't make a boo-boo and end up melting, bending, breaking, etc. anything before/during/after the build process. (Crossing my fingers.)

I won't deny it: I am a little worried about matching parts correctly, making sure all of the hardware is compatible (as well as high quality). That also includes wanting to make sure I have matching chipsets or similar parts that seem to be specific to the motherboard, from CPU to RAM to anything (everything) else.

*2. The purpose in my new computer.*

As you can see from the subject, the purpose in my new baby will be for gaming and music. It will also have some minor additional multimedia purposes.

The primary purpose of the new computer:
Music & Gaming.

The secondary purpose:
TV/movies/multimedia.

Regarding gaming:
I was invited to privately test a game that is in alpha/beta/etc. stages of production and it requires more computer muscle than what I currently have. I'm not much of a computer gamer, though this one is the exception, it's a must have/must play (at least for me, personally). I will definitely be wanting to get some very awesome gaming gear for this particular MMO game.

Regarding music:
I am a professional musician and require the ability to record out of my music lesson studio. Any functions that would benefit my music instruction would be great, too. I teach guitar, bass guitar, drumset, and percussion.

The tv, movies, and other multimedia functions should be pretty easy, though I might need a few hardware components with special features if I want to ever hook the computer up to a tv (or perhaps hdtv) in the future. Some nice DVD rip/burn functions would be nice, though that can probably work fine with the appropriate software. Those are only a couple aspects of that purpose in the computer, otherwise I can simply watch the tv shows and movies on my computer as I do now.

For gaming, I am looking into a few obvious things - nice graphics/video card for example, perhaps a "gaming pad" so I don't stress my normal keyboard out. I've heard NVIDIA is crossplatform but ATI is not (I run Windows and *nix).

For music, I am looking into similar - nice audio/sound card for example, perhaps an external sound module to bridge the sound card to any additional external components (boards or instruments). I've heard mixed opinions on Sound Blaster, and am unfamiliar with other options.

For tv/etc., I'm guessing I'll need s-video capability, though am not sure what else.

The game will be running on Windows Vista, everything else will be Linux/Unix (specifically Ubuntu Studio, OpenBSD, Solaris, and a "floating" extra *nix (partition reserved for testing different Linux distros and Unix flavors).

The short-term goal is to have a computer immediately ready for gaming that also includes the basic components for producing music.

The long-term goal is to maintain the gaming component requirements but mostly to add to the music producing aspect of the computer. I hope to eventually have a true home studio for use with teaching music lessons, composing music, and especially recording music.

A few juicy requirements for my first build are: 64-bit, quad core, at least 1 TB hard drive, at least 4 GB RAM, graphics/video card that can handle a game that won't be released until 2009, sound/audio card that can handle hardcore music production (composing and recording).

Does anyone have any suggestions or recommendations on computer components?
Stick with what I'm listing below or get something else?
Am I mismatching components?
Are any of the parts listed already outdated (meaning I'd be better off spending a few more bucks for a more recent version)?

*3. The Guts, version 1.0 (the current list of components/parts I'm looking at).*

cpu:
AMD Phenom X4 9950, Black Edition.
$173.99 (newegg.com)

cpu comments:
On the Intel vs AMD subject, I honestly like both, though for my first computer I want an AMD. The game I'm testing requires a minimum 2 GHz dual core. The music I'll produce, I'm not sure yet.

motherboard:
ASUS M3A AM2+/AM2 AMD 770 Chipset ATX.
$79.99 or $56.25 (newegg.com)

motherboard comments:
There were 2 versions of what appeared to be the exact same board, confused me. Plus, if there's a newer and better motherboard at a comparable price, I can go for that. Though, that applies to _all_ the computer parts. <grin>

RAM:
Kingston, 4GB 800MHz DDR2 CL6 DIMM.
$60.49 (newegg.com)

RAM comments:
I can't remember if that's ECC or Non-ECC. I have read about both, regarding error correction, performance, similar, though am not really sure which to go with. The game I'm testing requires, I believe, either 2 GB or 3 GB minimum.

hard drive:
Seagate 1TB SATA-II.
$129.99 (newegg.com)

hard drive comments:
I think that's a barracuda. Is there a difference in compatibility with motherboard between a SATA and SATA-II hard drive?

case:
Logisys CS888UVBL.
$64.99 (newegg.com)

case comments:
I'd love to have an all-clear case with a little bit of the pretty glowing lights. I hope an all-acrylic case is okay. If there is a better one than this, which I'm sure there is, I can get the other one instead.

power supply:
CORSAIR CMPSU-520HX (ATX).
$114.00 (newegg.com)
...or...
Kingwin MACH 1 ABT-600MA1S (ATX).
$119.99 (newegg.com)
...or...
[[[THERMALTAKE Toughpower, W0155RU.]]]
[[[$319.99 (newegg.com)]]]
[[[$299.99 (tigerdirect.com)]]]

power supply comments:
I'm very unfamiliar with power supplies, I'd like to understand these better and have a better awareness of what is available.

video/graphics card:
PNY, NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT.
$119.99 (newegg.com)
...or...
EVGA 512-P3-N873-AR, GeForce 9800 GTX+.
$199.99 (newegg.com)

video card comments:
There are so many choices of video cards that it is overwhelming. I believe Linux/Unix works better with NVIDIA than ATI. If that's correct, then I'll get NVIDIA... just not sure which NVIDIA to get. I do know that the game I'm testing requires "Shader Model 3.0 capable Video card, Direct X 9c, 256 MB RAM" and I think they suggest a PCIe card instead of PCI. I'm hoping the drivers will also be okay or current. Now since AMD and ATI have teamed up, would it still be okay to run NVIDIA with an AMD cpu? I'm guessing yes, though don't know if there is a disadvantage to it.

sound card:
Asus Xonar D2.
$179.99 (PCI? PCIe?) (newegg.com)
...or...
Create labs SB X-FI Titanium.
$99.99 (newegg.com)

sound card comments:
The sound card is very important to me. I am willing to go much higher in price as long as I will be able to fully utilize what I'm paying for. I'm not really familiar with the possibilities in quality sound cards for professional musicians (for composing and especially recording).

dvd:
SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R.
$25.99 (newegg.com)
...or...
LG 22X DVD±R.
$25.99 (newegg.com)

dvd comments:
These look pretty generic, I'm guessing there are some very nice options better than these. I've considered blu-ray, though haven't resolved on that option just yet. I might go blu-ray for more multimedia flexibility, though my current DVD collection consists of only the "old" kind of DVDs.

monitor:
SAMSUNG 2253BW Black 22".
$269.99 (newegg.com)
...or...
Acer X223Wbd Black 22".
[[$189.99 (newegg.com)]]]
[[[$179.99 (A179-2240, tigerdirect.com)]]]

monitor comments:
I'd absolutely love to get a larger monitor, though one of these options would be (I'm guessing) decently priced for what I'd be getting. Others in the group that I'm testing that game with have shared that anything larger than 30" is not worth it. I may stick to the low to mid "20s". It depends on the price and quality. I may also add 2 more monitors in about a year from now. Plus, I would love to have 1680x1050 or even higher, and LCD appears to be restrictive with resolution limits.

keyboard:
Razer Lycosa Gaming Keyboard.
$79.99 (newegg.com)

keyboard comments:
Seems basic enough, yet fitting for gaming without being distracting for non-gaming purposes. I don't want one of those huge, gaudy, and/or bulky keyboards <wink>. I don't think I want a wireless. I'll also be purchasing a music keyboard to place on the desk by the computer keyboard (a MIDI controller keyboard, only 1 or 2 octaves), though haven't really found a decent MIDI keyboard yet.

gaming pad:
Belkin N52 Tournament Edition.
$69.99 (newegg.com)

game pad comments:
This, or something comparable, would be wonderful and could help extend the life of the keyboard. There weren't really a lot of options where I looked (newegg, tigerdirect, and google's "shopping" pages so far).

mouse:
Microsoft Sidewinder Gaming Mouse.
$51.99 (newegg.com)

mouse comments:
I really hesitated at first, though after digging through a whole bunch of gaming mice this one seemed like a decent choice. I don't think I want a wireless.

speakers:
Logitech X-540 Surround Sound Speakers.
$78.99 (newegg.com)
...or...
[[[Logitech Z-5500 THX 5.1, 505w, DD, DTS.]]]
[[[$246.99 (amazon.com)]]]
[[[$302.99 (newegg.com)]]]
[[[$259.99 (tigerdirect.com)]]]

speakers comments:
Similar to the sound card, the speakers are also very important to me. I am willing to go much higher in price as long as I will be able to fully utilize what I'm paying for. I'm not really familiar with the possibilities in quality computer speakers for professional musicians (for composing and especially recording.) I understand some sound cards are 7.1, though I have only found 5.1 speaker sets.

mic:
[[[Labtec Verse 333 PC Microphone.]]]
[[[$9.99 (tigerdirect.com)]]]

mic comments:
This is _totally_ optional. It does bring up the idea of a webcam, and although some LCD monitors come with mic+cam built-in, I'm not sure yet if there is an ideal monitor that offers that.

headset:
TRITTON AX51 Audio Xtreme 5.1.
$69.99 (newegg.com)

headset comments:
This is a good idea for gaming. The AX51 appears to be a pretty decent microphone+headphones combo. I like that the speakers cover the ears completely. That's important. Though I couldn't find any other headsets with ear-covering speakers that appeared to be of good quality.

UPS:
APC Smart-UPS.
[[[$179.00 (ebay.com)]]]
[[[$689.99 (newegg.com)]]]
[[[$319.99 (tigerdirect.com)]]]
...or...
APC Back-UPS RS Battery Backup.
[[[$192.00 (blazintech.net)]]]
[[[$380.99 (newegg.com)]]]
[[[$199.99 (A75-2324, tigerdirect.com)]]]

UPS  comments:
This is vital. I have one word to explain why I need this: Illinois. Okay, two words: Illinois Power.

LAN network card:
?

LAN comments:
I'm guessing a motherboard will have an integrated network card, though I'm not sure if I should get a different one. I saw an advert for a special "gaming" network card, it was around $300 I think. I wonder if it's really worth all of those pennies.

wireless network card:
?

wireless comments:
It's a desktop, so I don't know if this is really necessary. Yet, if my internet cuts out, I could always borrow my neighbor's (I have permission). One concern is getting a wireless that works well with Linux and Unix. There seems to be a long history of issues with wireless and *nix.

wireless router:
?

wireless comments:
Perhaps one of the newest linksys models. I have an old Dell wireless router, though it's pretty shatty.

Cable modem:
?

cable modem comments:
This is a new addition to the list. My current one only recently started crapping out on me, the tech looked at it and said I need a new one if I want to avoid those pesky intermittent connections. (Oh, I don't think I'll be needing an old fashioned 14.4 or whatever modem <wink>.)

Two more recent additions to the list:

A "cpu cooler", perhaps similar to "Zalman CNPS9500 AM2" (or a more Phenom-friendly one).

Some "Arctic Silver 5" thermal solution (to put a pea-sized drip on the actual AMD, I'm guessing).

chair:
...by "Office Furniture in a Flash".
Different models... I won't list them here. I'd like a high-back with cushioned armrests if possible. My previous computer chair was a cheap junker from Walmart. Though, I also had it for several years and it had gone through quite a bit of abuse.

desk:
I found a "Gaming Station Computer Desk", "Sauder Javelin Computer Desk", and "Suader Ellipse Desk", though don't really know what would be appropriate. I'm avoiding those CD storage slots, am interested in something very basic. I'm tempted to just get a table, though am guessing an actual "desk" would be a good idea.

laptop stand for desk:
I found the "Allsop Metal Art" brand "corner monitor/notebook stand", though it's the only one I found so far.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 13, 2008)

if your going to be doing music creation, you will want a better sound card than the 2 you picked, and the best professional audio cards are still on the PCI 2.3 Bus. I would also check to see if the motherboard you picked supports 140 Watt CPUs.


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## the_professor (Oct 13, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> if your going to be doing music creation, you will want a better sound card than the 2 you picked, and the best professional audio cards are still on the PCI 2.3 Bus. I would also check to see if the motherboard you picked supports 140 Watt CPUs.



Thank you!

I wasn't sure about sound cards. I'm trying to find some really good ones though am not really sure where to find specialized sound cards or if any specific brands or models tend to be in the right ballpark. If you/anybody has any suggestions, I'd be grateful.

Are CPUs generally more or less than 140 Watts? Or maybe 140 W is a quad thing?

That also might be why I saw 2 versions of the same motherboard, maybe one supported 140W and the other didn't.

Though, I am very open to getting a completely different motherboard if necessary. It doesn't have to be ASUS. I found that one from price comparisons on boards that appeared to be appropriate. If you or anyone also has any recommendations for motherboards, I'd be grateful.

I'll keep digging and looking up various components, including motherboards that support 140 W CPUs as well as high quality pro sound cards.

I hope the other components are good choices. If anybody has ideas on other ways, any additional input would be great.

I'll try to find some other options and can give some updates later. Thank you!


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## lilkiduno (Oct 13, 2008)

well i just spent $1800 USD on my new gaming computer. im not sure the music capibilitys seeing as how i didn't buy a new sound scard for it, but the hardware i chose was mobo: eVGA 780i FTW. CPU: Intel Q6600. Graphics: eVGA 9800 GTX+ (dual SLI.) RAM: corsair Dominator DDR2 1066 (with RAM cooler.) Power Supply: Corsair 750. Display ACER 24" LCD Case Antec 900. CPU cooler Nuctia. i would also Suggest the Creative Fatal1ty headset works beautifully for me. for the most of everything i listed abouve you can but from newegg but im not so sure about the lcd (for the same price, $300) and the CPU cooler... but if you want i can list the links to all the other hardware from newegg.com


i personal use the RAZER Dimondback mouse and enjoy using it
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826153029

also the MERC Stealth keyboard with a gaming pad build on the board itself
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823161028

i hope that was somehelp if any.



the_professor said:


> That also might be why I saw 2 versions of the same motherboard, maybe one supported 140W and the other didn't.



newegg has open box mother boards aso that might be what the difference is. open box is basicly a retrun that there is nothing wrong with it but it might not have all the accesories.


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## King Wookie (Oct 13, 2008)

Firstly, welcome to tpu!

Some points to ponder:

Sound card - Companies such as M-audio, Emu, RME, etc. make professional grade sound cards. You will have far greater flexibility if you look for a firewire based sound card. They are the most common interfaces today, and are far more flexible than onboard. I'm currently using Protools LE, where all the interfaces are external. 

Hard drive - Any pro audio software will recommend having a separate hd to record to. So your os and programmes will be on one drive, and your audio is on another. I personally would even look to keeping any movies, etc on another drive, so that when that reinstall is needed, you don't have to worry about losing all of that.

Audio pc's these days have mostly gone away from AMD, but I don't see why you can't build a good rig based on the Phenom.

Good luck!


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## Dia01 (Oct 13, 2008)

Purchase the Z-5500's, as far as I'm still aware, best PC speaker's money can buy.  AMD or Intel?  I'm sure the Phenom's can do a good enough job otherwise stick with the C2D's.


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## the_professor (Oct 13, 2008)

First, wow, excellent replies already and I just joined these forums. Nifty!
As a side note, cool avatars everyone has too. I'm originally from the KC, MO area, lilkiduno,  nice area. King Wookie, do you run Linux? (...looks like possibly a Tux penguin in avatar.) And that blue star in Dia1's avatar reminds me of A) Superman, and B) Stargate Continuum.

Okay I'm curious to know more now, from the responses. I fear this is going to turn into a hobby (not an inexpensive one either, lol). 



lilkiduno said:


> mobo: eVGA 780i FTW.



I'm not familiar with that, I'll look into it. Forgive my lack of knowledge in hardware, is that a motherboard?



lilkiduno said:


> CPU: Intel Q6600.



Someone recently mentioned Core i7 to me, though I don't think it's out yet (and I'm needing to build this computer pretty much asap for testing the game).

How does the Intel Q6600 compare to AMD Phenom X4 9950 "black"?

Comparable or way different?

If they're pretty much equal in quality and general cpu "brains" (not sure how to phrase it), though if there's a noticeable price difference, I'll go for the more inexpensive one. If there's more of a difference in quality, performance, or similar, yet pretty similar in price, I'll definitely get the "better quality" one.

I'm interested in an AMD for my 1st build, though it sounds like Intel is used more for professional musician's home-built computers. If it really doesn't matter, I could always just flip a coin. 



lilkiduno said:


> Graphics: eVGA 9800 GTX+ (dual SLI.)



That brings up another point I totally overlooked... would I need a certain kind of graphics card if I want to be able to sync up 3 monitors in the future?

I'm not sure if SLI is the way to use multiple monitors like that, though I'm guessing I'll need another card for each of the extra 2 LCDs. I won't be getting the other 2 for probably another year, though I'd like to plan ahead so I'm ready for the various upgrades a year from now.



lilkiduno said:


> RAM: corsair Dominator DDR2 1066 (with RAM cooler.)



Woh! I didn't know you could get a "RAM cooler"! That is very cool.

I think there will be plenty of fans in the case, though I would be more than okay with getting more. My hunch is the cooler (temperature) the better.

I'm not sure what the "Arctic Silver 5" stuff is for, but saw one website show someone putting a pea-sized drop of the stuff on their CPU or somewhere in that area. It helps cool it down, right? I get something like that though I of course don't want to use it wrong, putting some liquidy-goo in the computer.

I browsed through the gallery of computers in here, saw some with green glowing liquid stuff, that looked really cool, though I am assuming it's $$$.

Since my computer will be used for music, too, I'm not sure how much noise from all of the fans will interfere if I'm doing a home recording. Though, I wont' be soundproofing my music studio either.

It looks like there are several methods of cooling the computer. I'd like to know more about that, it's a very intriguing subject.



lilkiduno said:


> Power Supply: Corsair 750.



I just did a quick comparison between that Corsair and the one I listed. For only an additional $5 the one you listed (750) is more watts, and more "ready" (SLI, CrossFire). I'm familiar with SLI, not with CrossFire though, yet it still looks like it'll be a good idea for me to get more Watts in any case.



lilkiduno said:


> Display ACER 24" LCD



The Samsung 22" is ~$270 at newegg, Acer 22" is ~$190 (newegg) and a variation of it is ~$180 at tigerdirect. I wonder why the 22" ACERs are considerably less than the Samsung 22". They seemed pretty close in specs, maybe it's a "ms" thing, not sure.

I originally had an LCD in the list that included a built-in cam and/or mic, though took it off. I might actually consider going back to an LCD with cam+mic, it's pretty neat having that in my laptop LCD.

For another 2" and another ~$30, I wonder how the $270 Samsung 22" compares to the ACER 24".

If I get an LCD with cam+mic built-in, it'd be neat if there was also a same-size model available without the cam+mic so I could get (in a year) 2 of those LCDs for the left/right sides of the cam+mic'd one.

It looks like I might not want to get a monitor from newegg. I'm under the impression they have great prices on several items, though monitors seem to be the exception (and perhaps UPS too).



lilkiduno said:


> Case Antec 900.



That's a slick looking black case. Looks like it's very functional too, with the fans, circulation, and such.

Do you think the "Logisys CS888UVBL" I listed would work well?

To play devil's advocate on the Logisys case, although the average rating at newegg is "4 out of 5", I found these negative remarks:

"...case was warped after i built the machine, many stress cracks, a dust magnet, have to unscrew alot of screws every time, doesn't come with the blue lights, motherboard mounts are to high, mother board tray has to be removed to install the holding screws for any harddrive cd drive floppy ect..., case feet won't stay on without super glue, No firewire front panel plug, easily crackable if you screw the screws just a bit too tight, scratches too easily, No internal brackets for the PSU outside of the I/O casing, All the LEDs died withing 6 months, screw holes strip very easily, acrylic tabs for screw holes snap under very little strain, Upgrading your hardware will be a pain, Case does not come with drive mounting brackets, Front side USB ports did not work on arrival, static electrisity, front audio connectors were plugs instead of the needed pin type connectors to hook into the motherboard, sent any static shocks into my components, need to mount five hard drives but there were only enough included screws appropriate for this task to mount one, fans installed are useless push almost no air and are very loud."

I wonder how the case ended up with an average "4 out of 5" with all of those issues.

So, I think I'm going to look for another case.

I'd like a case that is large enough to house upgrades, is either all clear or mostly clear, and has some pretty glowing lights... not really sure what else it would need for decent functionality, though a side opening door would be pretty slick.

Does anybody know of clear cases better than the Logisys I originally listed?



lilkiduno said:


> CPU cooler Nuctia.



How does Nuctia compare to Zalman?

I didn't research the CPU coolers yet, I didn't know they're necessary 'til I saw one by chance on a "how to build computers" website.



lilkiduno said:


> Creative Fatal1ty headset



Is that the kind that covers the ears? Oh wait, looks like it is, though I see different models. Wow, one has gold plating. Odd thing is the gold one is cheaper (on newegg at least). Hmm.



lilkiduno said:


> RAZER Dimondback mouse
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826153029



7 buttons? Wow... looking at the photos of it on newegg, it looks like a generic mouse with pretty red lights.  I might just switch to that one instead. 



lilkiduno said:


> MERC Stealth keyboard with a gaming pad...
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823161028



That's a nice keyboard! I'm interested in a separate gaming pad (not attached to keyboard). Though, the functions of the 2 gaming pads (separate (Belkin N52) and built-in (MERC Stealth)) may differ. I'm curious if they are comparable or if one has more bells and whistles. I'll do a comparison on that.



lilkiduno said:


> i hope that was somehelp if any.



Yes, thank you!



lilkiduno said:


> newegg has open box mother boards aso that might be what the difference is. open box is basicly a retrun that there is nothing wrong with it but it might not have all the accesories.



Ahh! Yeah, I want brand new.



King Wookie said:


> Firstly, welcome to tpu!



TY! 



King Wookie said:


> Sound card - Companies such as M-audio, Emu, RME, etc. make professional grade sound cards.



Very good! I had no idea what to go for. I'll do some digging.



King Wookie said:


> You will have far greater flexibility if you look for a firewire based sound card.



Instead of USB or something else?

Do you mean the kind that has a firewire output for plugging into?

Or a kind that actually connects to the computer via firewire?

Several mixers/soundboards have firewire these days, wasn't sure you meant like that or simply connecting an external card (never knew those existed) into the computer.



King Wookie said:


> They are the most common interfaces today, and are far more flexible than onboard. I'm currently using Protools LE, where all the interfaces are external.



What would be some examples of external interfaces?

The term "onboard", does that mean something like a sound card that is plugged into the motherboard inside the computer's case?

I wonder if I'll need something to "house" all of the external interfaces I'll get.



King Wookie said:


> Hard drive - Any pro audio software will recommend having a separate hd to record to. So your os and programmes will be on one drive, and your audio is on another.



Wow, great idea! I thought about partitioning chunks of the TB, though separate physical drives would be great, especially if I have to move them between computers. It looks like it's a good security measure, too, with operating systems on separate drives (reinstalls, etc.).



King Wookie said:


> I personally would even look to keeping any movies, etc on another drive, so that when that reinstall is needed, you don't have to worry about losing all of that.



A good idea, too. I could learn how to use RAID, like RAID 5 or something, with different physical hard drives maybe I could partition them, too. Or maybe just keep it simple. I'm not really sure how RAID works though would like to learn.

Multiple hard drives is something I've considered, though a 1 TB drive is such a juicy option.  I suppose I could get multiple 1 TB hard drives, though the budget will come into play there (as with everything else I'm getting, of course).

I could upgrade drives later, too.

Maybe 3 hard drives - one for all of my operating systems (Windows and several Linux and Unix set-ups), one for music, one for other multimedia/movies.

So if I upgrade later, I can start smaller now, though am not sure how much space is ample for all 3.

If ~$130 is average for 1 TB now, and if it's going to go down in price soon, I can hold off. Or if the market currently has some great deals on GB hard drives, that would work too.



King Wookie said:


> Audio pc's these days have mostly gone away from AMD, but I don't see why you can't build a good rig based on the Phenom.



Do you know why they've gone away from AMD?

Maybe a compatibility thing with drivers or chipsets or something? (Sorry, I don't really know much about this stuff... I'm learning! )



King Wookie said:


> Good luck!



Thank you!



Dia01 said:


> Purchase the Z-5500's, as far as I'm still aware, best PC speaker's money can buy.  AMD or Intel?  I'm sure the Phenom's can do a good enough job otherwise stick with the C2D's.



Logitech's Z-5500 speakers, okay. Audio is important to me. If there's a better option than the Z-5500 set, I can consider other options too.

Glad to hear Phenom's do good, I hope by "can do good a enough job" that doesn't mean it's actually _not_ recommended.  

What's "C2D's"? A type of CPU by AMD or Intel?

Thanks!

Thank you everybody, such excellent feedback!


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## Polaris573 (Oct 13, 2008)

Please remember not to double post.  If you need to add information use the "edit" button.  Likewise, if you need to quote more than one person use the "multi-quote" button.  Thank you.


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## King Wookie (Oct 13, 2008)

Right, let's see if I can remember everything.

Firstly, from my browsing, the Intel Q6600 and the AMD 9950 BE seem to retail in the same range. The Amd seems to come out ahead with cheaper motherboards. One of the most common configurations for a music pc is the Q6600 on a P35 chipset motherboard. Tends to make a pretty good gaming machine as well. By getting a motherboard with firewire onboard, it saves having to buy an adapter card.

The external audio interfaces I spoke of connect to your pc via firewire. It's pretty robust, and can handle quite a few audio channels. Common options are from Presonus, RME, M-audio, Ensoniq, Mackie, etc. Also, there are a few audio mixers with the interface built in. Mackie make a nice one.

I like the Noctua products, as they cool pretty well while being pretty quiet. Zalman are not bad, but they seem to have been left behind of late.

The Corsair psu is one of the best around. Very reliable and quiet.

As for the noise, it is a Major issue if you are recording in the same room.Microphones can't tell the difference between good sound and bad sound.

One of my tricks is to run my fans on a fan controller. Turn down for recording, but turn up for better airflow when gaming.

To build a quiet gaming machine is a challenge, but can be done.

Check out these sites for some more info.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/

http://www.frostytech.com/


----------



## lilkiduno (Oct 13, 2008)

the_professor said:


> I'm originally from the KC, MO area, lilkiduno,  nice area.
> 
> 
> I'm not familiar with that, I'll look into it. Forgive my lack of knowledge in hardware, is that a motherboard?



yes it is a motherboard, it's actully a gaming motherboard, capible of tri-sli, it's nice if your going to overclock your cpu (processor) but im a big eVGA fan boy i've never had any problems from there hardware.





the_professor said:


> Someone recently mentioned Core i7 to me, though I don't think it's out yet (and I'm needing to build this computer pretty much asap for testing the game).
> 
> How does the Intel Q6600 compare to AMD Phenom X4 9950 "black"?
> 
> ...



well the difference in stock clock speeds are 0.2GHz, but i know that the Q6600 is a good overclocking chip.



the_professor said:


> That brings up another point I totally overlooked... would I need a certain kind of graphics card if I want to be able to sync up 3 monitors in the future?
> 
> I'm not sure if SLI is the way to use multiple monitors like that, though I'm guessing I'll need another card for each of the extra 2 LCDs. I won't be getting the other 2 for probably another year, though I'd like to plan ahead so I'm ready for the various upgrades a year from now.


 well im not sure seeing as how i only use one display, but from what i have read you cann't run dual displays with sli



the_professor said:


> Woh! I didn't know you could get a "RAM cooler"! That is very cool.
> 
> I think there will be plenty of fans in the case, though I would be more than okay with getting more. My hunch is the cooler (temperature) the better.


yes thats basicly right, you want the inside to stay nice a chilly



the_professor said:


> I'm not sure what the "Arctic Silver 5" stuff is for, but saw one website show someone putting a pea-sized drop of the stuff on their CPU or somewhere in that area. It helps cool it down, right? I get something like that though I of course don't want to use it wrong, putting some liquidy-goo in the computer.



Artic silver 5 is said to be one of the top of the line thermal pastes around, i don't use it and keep cool temps. yes you put the thermal compound on the ish (silver part of processor) it's what transferres the heat to the coolers, VERY important!



the_professor said:


> I browsed through the gallery of computers in here, saw some with green glowing liquid stuff, that looked really cool, though I am assuming it's $$$.



thats people with water-cooled systems, a bit more on the pricy side so i don't run em.



the_professor said:


> Since my computer will be used for music, too, I'm not sure how much noise from all of the fans will interfere if I'm doing a home recording. Though, I wont' be soundproofing my music studio either.


 the antec 900 is a really quite case and the fans have little controllers on them with high, med, low settings.





the_professor said:


> I just did a quick comparison between that Corsair and the one I listed. For only an additional $5 the one you listed (750) is more watts, and more "ready" (SLI, CrossFire). I'm familiar with SLI, not with CrossFire though, yet it still looks like it'll be a good idea for me to get more Watts in any case.



i was pointed to this buy a bunch of different people.



the_professor said:


> The Samsung 22" is ~$270 at newegg, Acer 22" is ~$190 (newegg) and a variation of it is ~$180 at tigerdirect. I wonder why the 22" ACERs are considerably less than the Samsung 22". They seemed pretty close in specs, maybe it's a "ms" thing, not sure.



from looking at the sceps the samsung would be a better buy for that price. 8000:1 ratio compared to the 4000:1 ratio





the_professor said:


> It looks like I might not want to get a monitor from newegg. I'm under the impression they have great prices on several items, though monitors seem to be the exception (and perhaps UPS too).



i was lucky enough to be able to run to micro center to get a little biy of a better deal on some of my parts. thats where i picked up my cooler, and i was convenced it was the best choice so thats what i bought.



the_professor said:


> Do you think the "Logisys CS888UVBL" I listed would work well?


 it  should do good if you keep it cool on the inside and NEVER use any achole product on it, but you have to keep it clean with it being a clear case.





the_professor said:


> Is that the kind that covers the ears? Oh wait, looks like it is, though I see different models. Wow, one has gold plating. Odd thing is the gold one is cheaper (on newegg at least). Hmm.


 i enjoy them they do cover the full ear, with 5.1 speakers you can't go wong the mic is removeable so if your just useing the as headphone for anything (ever for and ipod or mp3)




the_professor said:


> 7 buttons? Wow... looking at the photos of it on newegg, it looks like a generic mouse with pretty red lights.  I might just switch to that one instead.


 don't get me wrong the sidewinder is a good gaming mouse expectly if you have a big hand, but i don't so i like this mouse.





the_professor said:


> That's a nice keyboard! I'm interested in a separate gaming pad (not attached to keyboard). Though, the functions of the 2 gaming pads (separate (Belkin N52) and built-in (MERC Stealth)) may differ. I'm curious if they are comparable or if one has more bells and whistles. I'll do a comparison on that.



i like the back light of the merc. chose from three colors (red, blue, purple) with three brightness levels and a no light feature.

Yes, thank you!






the_professor said:


> What's "C2D's"? A type of CPU by AMD or Intel?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Thank you everybody, such excellent feedback!



im sure the C2D means Core 2 Duo, nice chips (intel, dual core) but i preferr the Q6600


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## Dia01 (Oct 13, 2008)

the_professor said:


> Logitech's Z-5500 speakers, okay. Audio is important to me. If there's a better option than the Z-5500 set, I can consider other options too.



The Z5500's will do more than a good enough job for you, plenty of base, clear sound, very powerful for PC speakers also.


----------



## the_professor (Oct 15, 2008)

RE: the "double post", I ran out of space. It would help if the forums are set to allow a lengthier response. This will avoid the necessity of double posts.

Okay back on subject...

Today I disassembled and reassembled an old computer that I had previously decommissioned. I learned quite a bit simply doing that. It was pretty interesting.



King Wookie said:


> ...Intel Q6600 and the AMD 9950 BE seem to retail in the same range. The Amd seems to come out ahead with cheaper motherboards.



By cheaper, do you mean less expensive or less quality?



King Wookie said:


> By getting a motherboard with firewire onboard, it saves having to buy an adapter card.



Someone elsewhere recently mentioned avoiding firewire when using a Linux set-up (including Ubustu or similar). I don't know why though.



King Wookie said:


> The external audio interfaces I spoke of connect to your pc via firewire. It's pretty robust, and can handle quite a few audio channels.



Do these types of audio interfaces run over $500?

I do want a quality music production sound card - or, rather, an external audio interface - though would like to get a more affordable one for the next year or two (hopefully still high quality), and upgrade to a better one in the future.



King Wookie said:


> Common options are from Presonus, RME, M-audio, Ensoniq, Mackie, etc. Also, there are a few audio mixers with the interface built in. Mackie make a nice one.



Thank you for those names, that will help me with my search.



King Wookie said:


> I like the Noctua products, as they cool pretty well while being pretty quiet. Zalman are not bad, but they seem to have been left behind of late.



Noctua, sounds like a plan. 



King Wookie said:


> The Corsair psu is one of the best around. Very reliable and quiet.



Ditto. 



King Wookie said:


> One of my tricks is to run my fans on a fan controller. Turn down for recording, but turn up for better airflow when gaming.



Fan controller?



King Wookie said:


> To build a quiet gaming machine is a challenge, but can be done.



So a music+gaming computer is kind of an oxymoron.  j/k



King Wookie said:


> Check out these sites for some more info.
> 
> http://www.silentpcreview.com/
> 
> http://www.frostytech.com/



Excellent! I took a quick glance at both to get an idea on the sites, they seems to be full of gobs of stuff. Keeping a silent _and_ low temperature computer would be wonderful.



lilkiduno said:


> yes it is a motherboard, it's actully a gaming motherboard, capible of tri-sli, it's nice if your going to overclock your cpu (processor) but im a big eVGA fan boy i've never had any problems from there hardware.



I suppose a gaming motherboard would work fine for producing music, unless there's actually a music production-type motherboard out there somewhere.

tri-sli? Does that mean 3 cards at once? (A lot of new terms for me.)

Some people have advised that I not overclock my cpu, saying it was more a thing people did back in the "old days" and there is some risk involved or something. I'm not sure. If it's a good idea, I'll look into it.

eVGA, taking note of that: no problems with their hardware.



lilkiduno said:


> well im not sure seeing as how i only use one display, but from what i have read you cann't run dual displays with sli



I had to look up SLI again... multiple cards for 1 display, sharing the work load. That makes sense.

I would need a separate graphics card for each separate monitor, right?



lilkiduno said:


> Artic silver 5 is said to be one of the top of the line thermal pastes around, i don't use it and keep cool temps. yes you put the thermal compound on the ish (silver part of processor) it's what transferres the heat to the coolers, VERY important!



Interesting!



lilkiduno said:


> the antec 900 is a really quite case and the fans have little controllers on them with high, med, low settings.



I'm hoping to find a quality replacement for the clear case I had originally listed, or at least a quality case that is "mostly" clear.



> from looking at the sceps the samsung would be a better buy for that price. 8000:1 ratio compared to the 4000:1 ratio



Is that 8000:1 and 4000:1 stuff basically the quality of the contrast between brights and darks?



lilkiduno said:


> i was lucky enough to be able to run to micro center to get a little biy of a better deal on some of my parts. thats where i picked up my cooler, and i was convenced it was the best choice so thats what i bought.



I've added microcenter.com to my list of computer shopping websites, currently a short list, only 4 things on it now: the "froogle" google (now the "shopping" link on google's main page), newegg, tigerdirect, and now microcenter. Hopefully microcenter will offer a better deal on an LCD monitor, a cooler, and a UPS>

By the way, is the U in UPS "uninterrupted" or "universal"?



lilkiduno said:


> it  should do good if you keep it cool on the inside and NEVER use any achole product on it, but you have to keep it clean with it being a clear case.



Alcohol? hmm, why not? (I have no idea.)

Okay that's interesting, I didn't even think about how _easily_ a clear case will "look" dirty. That actually might be some incentive to get a non-clear case... though I'm still wanting one with at least some clear or, even better, mostly clear.

My main concern in the clear case I previously found is that one doesn't appear to be solid enough to stand the tests of pressure, temperature, time, nor does it seem to be as flexible in functionality as other cases. I don't know, that's also going off the "cons" comments from the "pros and cons" over at newegg.com.



lilkiduno said:


> i enjoy them they do cover the full ear, with 5.1 speakers you can't go wong the mic is removeable so if your just useing the as headphone for anything (ever for and ipod or mp3)



Cool!

Wait... a headset that is literally 5.1? I've never heard of that. Or do you mean something of a virtual 5.1 is present in the 2 speakers of the headset?



> don't get me wrong the sidewinder is a good gaming mouse expectly if you have a big hand, but i don't so i like this mouse.



Hmm. Well, Andre the Giant's hands look like a new born baby's hands compared to mine... just kidding.

Do both of those gaming mice have the same number of buttons and/or "bells and whistles" or does one have a little more?



lilkiduno said:


> im sure the C2D means Core 2 Duo, nice chips (intel, dual core) but i preferr the Q6600



Ah yes. I'm avoiding dual now... going for quad only. Though the Intel quad looks like a nice deal, though so does AMD's quad. Ahhh the choices.



Dia01 said:


> The Z5500's will do more than a good enough job for you, plenty of base, clear sound, very powerful for PC speakers also.



Excellent. Thank you!


----------



## King Wookie (Oct 15, 2008)

Ok.

Cheaper as in price wise. Saying which, the price difference is not that big, and the Q6600 on an Intel chipset mb (P35 or P45 the most recommended) is a pretty safe bet.

Overclocking. If done properly, can be very reliable. The Q6600 is a benchmark overclocker. There's tons of resources on TPU on overclocking. 

Firewire on linux. I don't run linux, so I can't answer that one. There's at least one forum for audio production on linux out there. I just can't remember it.

Yes, you should be able to pick up a basic firewire interface for less than $500. The other advantage of an external audio interface is that you can move it to a laptop if needed. Can be handy.

As for sli or crossfire, where you use more than one video card, my gut feeling is don't worry about it. 1 decent gfx card should always be sufficient, and they all can run 2 monitors anyway. 

The fan controller is a piece of hardware you mount in your case that controls your fans.
I use the Zalman ones. You could do it with software if all your fans are connected to your mb, but hardware tends to be a little more reliable.

I use a 5.1 gaming headset, (Razer Barracuda) works well for gaming, but for music etc, I switch back to my Sennheisers. Same with the speakers. The Logitecha are pretty good, but for audio work proper dedicated stereo monitor speakers are a must. M-Audio make some interesting pc speakers that are based on their studio monitors.

Gaming pcs and audio pcs share many components, btu there are some clashes. A gaming pc is not always about quiet, but performance. An audio pc is very much about quiet. The trick is getting the besy combination of the 2.


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## Hayder_Master (Oct 15, 2008)

well come to tpu
my tips is 
1- if you can go for asus 790fx
2- if you can wait for new phenom fx that will be great
3- try 4850 it is really cool and good for crossfire in the future 
4- there is i corssair psu in newegg i think 700 or 750 and it is about 120$
5- if you look for great sound card now see the asus xonar


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## r9 (Oct 15, 2008)

In that time that you were typing that post I would think of buying computer,  buy it and assamble it


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## the_professor (Oct 16, 2008)

King Wookie said:


> ...the price difference is not that big, and the Q6600 on an Intel chipset mb (P35 or P45 the most recommended) is a pretty safe bet.



My main concern is getting a quad core 64-bit that is compatible with Linux and Unix in addition to Windows. Some other Linux users have said Intel. Some other Unix users have said AMD.



King Wookie said:


> The other advantage of an external audio interface is that you can move it to a laptop if needed. Can be handy.



Hopefully I can spend considerably less than $500 on a quality device/interface, at least for the time being.

Portability of external, very true. I didn't even think of that. 



King Wookie said:


> As for sli or crossfire... ...1 decent gfx card should always be sufficient, and they all can run 2 monitors anyway.



I recently found out SLI = NVIDIA and Crossfire = ATI...

1 card for 2 monitors, check, and cool. Any idea on requirements for 3 monitors?



King Wookie said:


> The fan controller... ...I use the Zalman ones. You could do it with software if all your fans are connected to your mb, but hardware tends to be a little more reliable.



That sounds like an especially good idea since I run multiple operating systems, some of which might not have the necessary apps for adjusting fans.



King Wookie said:


> I use a 5.1 gaming headset, (Razer Barracuda) works well for gaming, but for music etc, I switch back to my Sennheisers. Same with the speakers. The Logitecha are pretty good, but for audio work proper dedicated stereo monitor speakers are a must. M-Audio make some interesting pc speakers that are based on their studio monitors.



So far I have come across 3 or 4 headsets that seem to be good quality. The most recent one is by "TekNmotion" ($55) at newegg.com. Familiar with that one?

I like the Razer Barracuda that you mentioned. I'm adding it to my separate "comparisons list".

I have Sennheisers for normal headphones too, they're very nice.

You bring up a good point with the use of speakers (loudspeakers more specifically). I didn't know there was a way to connect professional grade speakers, monitors, etc. into a computer - or, I should say - I don't know what equipment/hardware is required to make that possible.

I may go ahead and get a nice 5.1 set for normal computer use and incorporate dedicated monitors/etc. a year or two later when I purchase a mixer/soundboard, new/better mics, and similar.



King Wookie said:


> A gaming pc is not always about quiet, but performance. An audio pc is very much about quiet. The trick is getting the besy combination of the 2.



I read that the larger fans (I think choices are 80mm and 120mm?), that the 120mm are less noisy. The file I read that from is also about 1 year old so it may well be outdated.

Hopefully I will have enough necessary parts to properly cool the computer without getting noisy.

Is it true that a well-cooled and well-powered computer will also have better performance?

How much power will I need in my PSU to support a "powerful" gaming computer with the beginning components of a powerful music production computer?



hayder.master said:


> well come to tpu
> my tips is
> 1- if you can go for asus 790fx
> 2- if you can wait for new phenom fx that will be great
> ...



What's the difference between the ASUS 790fx and the ASUS 770?

The 770/790/etc. is chipset, right?

I need to match chipsets between mainboard and CPU, right?

I am a little worried that I'll end up getting mismatching components, I hope that I can get all of this right before I buy the parts.



r9 said:


> In that time that you were typing that post I would think of buying computer,  buy it and assamble it



LOL. That's quite impressive. I think that's cool that you can do that, though I am completely new to building computers and I really want to make sure I do it right. It's a lot of money and, until I am a guru at hardware, I really need to make sure everything is right. Another reason that I am really being careful about my choices is due to the limitations in hardware compatibility with different operating systems, kernels, etc. Case in point:

I run Windows (XP, Vista), Linux (Slackware, Ubuntu Studio, Gentoo), Unix (OpenBSD, Solaris), and an extra partition of a hard drive for miscellaneous Linux distros and Unix flavors.

Sure, most people run only 1 or 2 operating systems/set-ups, though I'm one who runs as many as 8.

So, before I make the final and ultimate decision on hardware that I purchase, I have to do research on exactly what hardware works with which systems... and which hardware devices work the best with each.

The CPU example:
There is a derivative of OpenBSD available for 64-bit, though it supposedly runs better under AMD.
There is a 64-bit version of Solaris, though it supposedly runs better under AMD.
The 64-bit Gentoo apparently works equally under AMD and Intel.
Ubuntu (generic) 64-bit seems to favor AMD, though some users say go Intel.
Ubuntu Studio 64-bit... I'm assuming this is the same as with generic.
There is a derivative of Slackware available for 64-bit, though it supposedly runs better under AMD.
Windows XP/Vista, well, there seems to be a pretty solid mix between AMD and Intel, though I'm hearing more for Intel.

I'm leaning toward AMD because of the universal benefits among the different systems.

I'm still willing to change my mind on that and get Intel if there is evidence that it is the optimal choice for Windows, Linux, _and_ Unix.

So, is it really just "apples and oranges"? Well, we're not talking Macintosh, so maybe "peaches and pears"? I don't know. You tell me.

I'm under the impression that the motherboard is perhaps the most important decision one must make in the computer building process, and yet it is a bit of a backwards process due to the components that connect to the mainboard having to be compatible. So, the CPU is my first ultimate decision I have to resort with. The motherboard comes next, unless someone thinks the "order of deciding on parts" should be different. Perhaps the RAM is next? Perhaps the PSU, or the GPU maybe? And sound card/external device? How about those fans and cooling systems, they have to be compatible with not only the motherboard but also the case, right? How about the case? I honestly don't know, I'm completely new to this. I'll admit it can quickly get a bit overwhelming - I am, after all, a newbie to all of this - though despite all of the competition between brands or methods of assembly, it's still some pretty neat stuff.


----------



## PaulieG (Oct 16, 2008)

Honestly, I would look to a Q6600 and match it with a p35 motherboard. My favorites tend to be DFI. Stable as a rock. The Q6600 is the best "bang for the buck" right now too. If you learn to overclock, you will be amazed at the performance of this chip. Do not let people scare you away from overclocking. Minor overclocking is easy and definately worth it. You just need to have a better cooler than what comes with the cpu. TPU members will gladly help you with overclocking, and there is a sticky here with overclocking basics.


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## Katanai (Oct 16, 2008)

Well if you intend to record music on that PC, especially live instruments, those sound cards won't do. They are meant for gaming. You need a professional sound card. Something like this from Yamaha: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 can be had for like 200$ if you shop around for it. It will enable you to connect up to 10 musical instruments or other sources. Or as suggested M-Audio also make external sound cards and pretty good Midi keyboards. You should at least check their keyboards out. Or if you really want a good one look at Korg, those are awesome. 

Also AMD are really weak now. A q6600 can be had for roughly the same amount and it will outperform that Phenom, especially if overclocked. A P45 board will be a bit more expensive than that board you choose there but not by a lot. I really think you should go that route as there is no sense in buying under performing products just because of their name. 

Other than that I suggest going with that Corsair for the PSU, they make the best. As for a Video card those two are pretty decent choices but a GTX260 would be better if you find a good deal. Or you could go the ATI route with a 4850 if you find it for cheap.


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## the_professor (Oct 16, 2008)

Paulieg said:


> Honestly, I would look to a Q6600 and match it with a p35 motherboard. My favorites tend to be DFI. Stable as a rock. The Q6600 is the best "bang for the buck" right now too. If you learn to overclock, you will be amazed at the performance of this chip. Do not let people scare you away from overclocking. Minor overclocking is easy and definately worth it. You just need to have a better cooler than what comes with the cpu. TPU members will gladly help you with overclocking, and there is a sticky here with overclocking basics.



Some have said that a month from now Intel is releasing another CPU, and others have said that a month from now AMD is releasing another CPU... It sounds like both will be significantly better than the current options, though I'm really trying to get the computer built asap so I can begin testing the game. The music aspect of it - there's no rush there - though I'd like to have it complete in time for the testing.

As I get closer to a decision on parts I'll definitely look into the overclocking options.



Katanai said:


> Well if you intend to record music on that PC, especially live instruments, those sound cards won't do. They are meant for gaming. You need a professional sound card. Something like this from Yamaha:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you for that Yamaha reference! It gives me a good idea, and if that's the price range, I might actually be able to get it this year instead of next year!

Would I still need an external sound card, like one by m-audio, if I get something like that Yamaha product?

I've seen some M-Audio MIDI keyboards, they appear to be pretty impressive.

You said AMD is really weak right now, I wonder... any idea why?

I checked out some stats comparing performance of Intel and AMD and there were pros/cons to both. In some regards Intel is better, in other regards AMD is better. It seems to even out.

Whichever CPU that I do end up getting, it won't be due to the name. My reason is due to compatibility and optimal functionality cross-platform (with Linux and Unix, not just Windows). That's the primary reason I've leaned towards AMD so far. If there is evidence that Intel works the same/better than AMD on Linux and Unix, then I'll get Intel.

PSU - I'm definitely leaning towards a Corsair PSU. I don't know how much power to get, though. I don't want to go too low in watts/etc. What is a safe amount of power for gaming & music?

GPU - I'll look into that GTX260 that you mentioned. Thank you.


----------



## Katanai (Oct 16, 2008)

"Thank you for that Yamaha reference! It gives me a good idea, and if that's the price range, I might actually be able to get it this year instead of next year!"

Yeah a friend of mine got one for about 200 euros, that's why I know the model.He is happy with it thus far. In the U.S. it should be around 200$. 

"Would I still need an external sound card, like one by m-audio, if I get something like that Yamaha product?"

No, that is an external sound card and mixer combo so you should be set.

"I've seen some M-Audio MIDI keyboards, they appear to be pretty impressive."

Yeah they are good as far as I know and the prices on some are decent.

"You said AMD is really weak right now, I wonder... any idea why?"

Hector Ruiz 

"I checked out some stats comparing performance of Intel and AMD and there were pros/cons to both. In some regards Intel is better, in other regards AMD is better. It seems to even out".

Not really, that's not saying AMD sucks, it's just that atm they have weaker CPU's.

"Whichever CPU that I do end up getting, it won't be due to the name. My reason is due to compatibility and optimal functionality cross-platform (with Linux and Unix, not just Windows). That's the primary reason I've leaned towards AMD so far. If there is evidence that Intel works the same/better than AMD on Linux and Unix, then I'll get Intel."

Of course they will work. There are millions of computers out there that run Linux and are using Intel CPU's. I've never heard of incompatibility so there shouldn't be any problems there...

"PSU - I'm definitely leaning towards a Corsair PSU. I don't know how much power to get, though. I don't want to go too low in watts/etc. What is a safe amount of power for gaming & music?"

It all depends on what video card you will end up buying as generally those suck the most juice. Honestly, a good 500W power supply can run any system as long as there is only one video card in it. But to be on the safe side a 600W or so power supply should be more than enough.


----------



## lilkiduno (Oct 16, 2008)

the_professor said:


> PSU - I'm definitely leaning towards a Corsair PSU. I don't know how much power to get, though. I don't want to go too low in watts/etc. What is a safe amount of power for gaming & music?



it depends on how much power your computer needs, i have a corsair 750 and it rocks, or at least it did til i found out i had a fucked up hard drive... i can't wait to get my system back up and running one night on my new quad core wasn't enough...lol...

in my own opition AMD is for the budget friendly poeple, now i know that there are some kick ass AMD's built out there and I am not discrediting them, and Intel is more for those that was to over clock and push your systems to the limits...

i personally own both amd and Intel

EDIT: hard drive installed, about to install O.S. Good luck on your decision, i will stay to see how it comes.


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## the_professor (Oct 17, 2008)

Katanai said:


> "Thank you for that Yamaha reference! It gives me a good idea, and if that's the price range, I might actually be able to get it this year instead of next year!"
> 
> Yeah a friend of mine got one for about 200 euros, that's why I know the model.He is happy with it thus far. In the U.S. it should be around 200$.



Very cool. I'll look around for that. (My "to do" list of new things to research is growing pretty big!)



Katanai said:


> "Would I still need an external sound card, like one by m-audio, if I get something like that Yamaha product?"
> 
> No, that is an external sound card and mixer combo so you should be set.



Also very cool!

How about sound for gaming? Perhaps get a decent internal card for that? Or can that Yamaha actually be used for gaming, too?



Katanai said:


> "You said AMD is really weak right now, I wonder... any idea why?"
> 
> Hector Ruiz



I don't know who that is. Though a quick search says he is "former CEO of AMD".

Is he the devil in the flesh or something?

I am curious though, for real, why AMD is really weak right now. You're not the only one who has made that same general point about AMD, though nobody has really explained why. I'm hoping to gain a better understanding.



Katanai said:


> "Whichever CPU that I do end up getting, it won't be due to the name. My reason is due to compatibility and optimal functionality cross-platform (with Linux and Unix, not just Windows). That's the primary reason I've leaned towards AMD so far. If there is evidence that Intel works the same/better than AMD on Linux and Unix, then I'll get Intel."
> 
> Of course they will work. There are millions of computers out there that run Linux and are using Intel CPU's. I've never heard of incompatibility so there shouldn't be any problems there...



Unfortunately, that is not always true. Slackware, for example, does not provide native support for use with a 64-bit quad core (regardless of CPU brand). Users are recommended the unofficial port, "Slamd64". This is one example, there are other systems - in either the Linux or Unix families - that supposedly require unofficial ports of distros.



Katanai said:


> "PSU - I'm definitely leaning towards a Corsair PSU. I don't know how much power to get, though. I don't want to go too low in watts/etc. What is a safe amount of power for gaming & music?"
> 
> It all depends on what video card you will end up buying as generally those suck the most juice. Honestly, a good 500W power supply can run any system as long as there is only one video card in it. But to be on the safe side a 600W or so power supply should be more than enough.



600W or greater, check, got it, thank you!



lilkiduno said:


> it depends on how much power your computer needs, i have a corsair 750 and it rocks, or at least it did til i found out i had a fucked up hard drive... i can't wait to get my system back up and running one night on my new quad core wasn't enough...lol...



Corsair 750W... check, got it. Thank you! 

Do I hear 900W, 1000W? Going once, twice, SOLD to the person in the corner! (j/k) heheh

I have no objection to more power.  If it's a safer bet, then I'm all for it.

What happened to you hard drive?

I had a very bizarre experience with a hard drive a while back, it was the ext3 fs and somehow the system thought it was ext2, or something odd (who knows), and some freakish twist of nature ended up off-setting the data on the entire hard drive by something like 1 bit. It was very... weird. So, a friend popped in a "trinity" rescue kit CD and we did a search through the entire hard drive - searching *raw data* - to obtain the necessary information that I had to rescue and back-up before formatting and reinstalling the operating system. We found it, mostly email, threw it onto a USB stick/flash drive thing, and reinstalled everything on the computer. Thankfully, the raw data was still intact (not off-set within _itself_) and we were able to find the beginning/end points of that string of data and were able to place it back on the newly formatted hard drive with no troubles.



lilkiduno said:


> in my own opition AMD is for the budget friendly poeple, now i know that there are some kick ass AMD's built out there and I am not discrediting them, and Intel is more for those that was to over clock and push your systems to the limits...



Well, I _am_ interested in budget-friendly hardware... if it is good quality.

I still am undecided on whether or not I will overclock. I am considering it, though if the pros/cons between Intel and AMD boil down to how well one can be overclocked, then I will have to decide after I know for sure if I will or will not actually want to overclock.

Is it _really_ necessary to overclock?

If yes, and Intel's #1 for overclocking, then that's cool, I'll get Intel.
If no, and there's truly no necessity for overclocking, that's okay too, I'll get AMD.

That is... if that's what it boils down to between the two. I'm sure it's a lot more than how well they overclock, though if that's one of the most significant differences, that's something one should probably be aware of.



lilkiduno said:


> i personally own both amd and Intel



You might be a better person to give me an opinion on both since you have both. Are they only running Windows OSs? Or are there any Linux or Unix systems on them?

Putting OS aside, do you believe one is better (from your personal/professional experience)?

LOL I don't want to spend 10 years deciding between Intel and AMD.  heheh I'd like to just pick one and get it... though there seems to be a never-ending debate. And, of course, someone will jump in and say, "there's no debate! <insert-brand-name> is clearly better than <insert-other-brand-name>!" lol Which, is just their opinion... to which... they will only argue it's not opinion but "fact"... to which, I will respond politely, "Oh, okay, thank you." <sigh>

Oh well. So, anyway, I'm going to need to go through all of these posts - and emails on this subject from a mailing list I'm on elsewhere - and merge all of the notes together, try to narrow things down a little.



lilkiduno said:


> EDIT: hard drive installed, about to install O.S. Good luck on your decision, i will stay to see how it comes.



Thank you on sticking around. I'll keep asking everybody things and I'll update as I make progress towards getting my new baby built.

One small update: today I cleaned off my old computer desk, packed away my ancient desktop computer. Next step, get rid of that horrendous computer desk, get a new computer desk or table and a new computer chair. Meanwhile, I'll be refining my list of computer "guts" that I'll ultimately end up purchasing, as well as continue my research on how to properly and safely assemble the computer. I just hope I don't leave any crucial parts out. For example, I was previously unaware of the plethora of cooling options, and effective cooling has since become more important to me, when originally I just assumed the generic fans would be fine. (They might be, though I've discovered "the cooler the better".) 

Well, my brain needs cooling, it's fried... had a long day of teaching private music lessons to a wide variety of people... (and I still need to read over 5,000 pages of books in the next few weeks for a 12 hour exam for my ph.d.!)


----------



## Katanai (Oct 17, 2008)

Well how should I explain it? 

An Intel quadcore CPU is much better clock for clock than any AMD CPU. So let's say you get that 2.4Ghz quad, it will be much faster than a 2.4Ghz Phenom. Not only that but it will be in fact sometimes faster than a 2.6Ghz Phenom. So there's no need to overclock for it to be better. Now if you do overclock, the Phenom will go up to lets say 3Ghz if you're really really lucky. That Q6600 will go up to 3.6 almost guaranteed. Now if at equal speeds it's already faster, imagine the benefits you would get if it runs at 600-800Mhz faster than a Phenom.  Now if performance is what you really seek and you don't want to overclock you could get this beast: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115041 
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 
It's a newer generation than that q6600, it should be something like 10-20% faster than the q6600 at the same speed. But it comes at a higher speed out of the box. Now you see how the gap widens and why AMD are going bankrupt right about now? I will personally guarantee you that if you get this CPU it will destroy any AMD CPU on the face of the planet and I dare anyone here to prove me wrong. Performance comes at a cost though, you will pay 100$ more but you won't have to learn to overclock and you will have one of the most powerful CPU's currently available.


----------



## King Wookie (Oct 17, 2008)

I'm using a 620W Corsair psu. Should be plenty for you, but the 750 wouldn't hurt.

Intel quad cores and mb's with intel chipsets are mostly recommended for audio, but I see no reason why an AMD system shouldn't do the job. Just stick with Nvidia or ATI chipsets though on the AMD boards. They tend to have less compatibility issues.

As for Linux/unix compatibility, not my field of expertese. 

Any reasonable audio interface should have provision for connecting your monitor speakers directly to it. You could then run the 5.1 gaming speakers and/ or headphones off separate soundcard for gaming. You can use your pro audio interface for gaming though. Won't support EAX etc. (used in some games for audio processing, etc. Not found on pro audio interfaces though)


----------



## the_professor (Oct 17, 2008)

Katanai said:


> ...Intel... ...much better clock for clock than... ...AMD...



Oh, okay, thank you. 

One question... if comparing an Intel 2.6GHz to an AMD 2.6GHz - when you consider "clock for clock", as in IPC (instructions per clock), with 6 IPC on Intel and 9 IPC on AMD - would the Intel beat AMD? Intel 2.6GHz = 2600 * 6  = 15,600. AMD 2.6GHz = 2600 * 9 = 23,400. It appears that AMD beats Intel by 33% when referring to "clock for clock", rather than Intel beating AMD by 10-20%. That's considering "stock" "clock for clock", "pre-overclock".  We're also just talking "clock for clock", not L2/L3 cache or anything else.

Now... to counter that whole bit about IPC... I've since done some additional digging, specifically looking for stat results from tests performed on both CPUs. At the moment, it looks like Intel is coming out on top. Some sources say go AMD for gaming. Some say Intel overclocks "better", some say AMD overclocks just as well as Intel. Some say "mobo" is better with AMD (whatever "mobo" is). Other sources say Intel clocks higher (q6600 vs 9950), other sources say AMD runs at equal performance while at slower speeds.

So the question is, how much will I be sacrificing if I get a more affordable CPU?

Will it be a noticeable difference?

The "Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz 2 x 4MB L2 Cache LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor" retails at approximately $190 at newegg.com.

The "AMD Phenom 9950 2.6GHz Socket AM2+ 140W Quad-Core Black Edition Processor" retails at approximately $170 at newegg.com.

"Clock for clock", Intel's 2.4GHz to AMD's 2.6GHz is Intel's "14,400" to AMD's "23,400" (putting that AMD CPU capable of running 39% faster than that Intel CPU), though people are still saying Intel is faster (confusing), then there's FSB, L2, L3, well, even with those two products there are pros and cons within each. Ultimately, the comparisons from statistics/tests show that Intel is better in some regards and AMD is better in other regards.

I also have the concern with cross-platform, as with some of the more picky Linux/Unix systems that require porting from non-native (unofficial) distribution derivatives.

It boils down to this:

Will the more affordable CPU, AMD, have _that much_ of a difference from the Intel competition?

Every $10 or $20 makes a difference. If there's a huge difference, I'll abandon AMD and go with Intel, though I am not seeing a semblance of a HUGE difference, only a small difference. I need to understand the similarities and differences between the two products before I can make the ultimate decision... I am hoping to receive some unbiased feedback.



King Wookie said:


> I'm using a 620W Corsair psu. Should be plenty for you, but the 750 wouldn't hurt.
> 
> Intel quad cores and mb's with intel chipsets are mostly recommended for audio, but I see no reason why an AMD system shouldn't do the job. Just stick with Nvidia or ATI chipsets though on the AMD boards. They tend to have less compatibility issues.
> 
> ...



I saw a 1000W Corsair! That's nuts.  I wonder if there's really a need for that with what I'll be doing (gaming + music production). I might go ahead and look for a 750W PSU.

If I end up with Intel or AMD, for CPU and motherboard, I will most likely still end up getting nvidia for the GPU, simply because it's more "friendly" to *nix environments.

RE: Audio... you mentioned EAX... I don't know if I'd really want that (or need it). Can you think of any situations where someone would want to use that? I'm drawing blank. However, I might still get a separate internal sound card (if a non-Soundblaster has EAX), for the specific purpose of gaming - unless the integrated sound in the mainboard offers it. The ambience is a pretty big deal in the game that I'm testing, though I would think that listening to the audio within the game in its raw form would be ideal since I am testing the game. I don't know. 

That is a pretty cool thought, though, hooking up my headset to an external device (like the Yamaha (image in a previous reply to this thread)) with that device hooked up to the computer... if anything, the idea of that "looks cool". lol I don't know if the sound will be better or worse, or if there won't be much of a difference at all.


----------



## caleb (Oct 17, 2008)

> I saw a 1000W Corsair! That's nuts. I wonder if there's really a need for that with what I'll be doing (gaming + music production). I might go ahead and look for a 750W PSU.



Nah not really..
My station eats about 280W when loaded (measured) and thats : pc + lcd + headphones amp + speaker amp + printer idle.


EAX enviremental audio. Not many games make PROPER use of it. Developers just add it so it gives you the effect of a metal pipe when youre in one. 
Proper usage is to emulate the real sound behaviour for the player to use sound as a wallhack.
I dont think Ive ever seen a game other than R6:Raven Shield that used EAX in such way.
You could basicly know the exact position of enemy near you and you were able to supress footstep sounds with explosives and shooting. EAX gave that precision and the ability to filter a sneaking enemy inside multiple sounds.

Im not sure dev's really care nowdays and dont even buy it from Creative and use their own 'echo' system which is actually good because EAX really worked completly diffrent on every card.

About the computer I would really do everything in my power to wait a bit more for i7 - It is new gen and is just a few days/weeks away.


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## Katanai (Oct 17, 2008)

Well man, whatever. I thought I was pretty clear. What a clock for clock comparison means is this: you get an Intel system at 2.4Ghz, it will run Crysis let's say at 30fps, you get a Phenom at 2.4Ghz it will run Crysis at 24 fps. You want to decode a BluRay movie: on the Intel system it will take 20 minutes, on the Phenom 30 minutes. While both processors run at the same freaking clock speed. If you think 20$ extra is too much to get that, be my guest: buy a Phenom and be done with it!

And if you think I'm full of it just look here: http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/cpu-charts-2008-q1-2008/3D-Studio-Max-9,369.html
It's the most reputable source I know. 
I don't know what you've been reading but look through those charts and choose which application you want. They even got dinosaur CPU's in there...
Here a newer one: http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-q3-2008/benchmarks,31.html
They even got Linux specific tests in there so you can see how many "problems" an Intel quadcore has with running that OS.


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## caleb (Oct 17, 2008)

Hehe.

I still wonder why do some buy AMD. I used to be a huge fan of it but face it they didnt make anything good since the Barton CPU.
Intel pwnd the market and it will take a while before AMD gets lucky with something new to bounce off.

Sorry for the off top.


----------



## the_professor (Oct 18, 2008)

I'm gradually narrowing things down.

Here's an update to the list...

If anybody could chime in on sections that include more than one version of the similar-type component, I'd be grateful.

*"Version 1.5" of my list:*



CPU:

"AMD Phenom 9950 2.6GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 2MB L3 Cache Socket AM2+ 140W Quad-Core Black Edition Processor - OEM"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103285
($169.00)

or

"AMD Phenom 9950 2.6GHz Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Black Edition Processor - Retail"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103291
($184.99)



Motherboard:

"ASUS M3A78-T AM2+/AM2 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131331
($149.99)
("Unleash 140W Phenom Performance, DDR3 1333 Sideport Memory")

or

"ASUS M3A79-T Deluxe AM2+/AM2 AMD 790FX ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131339&Tpk=M3A79-T Deluxe
($188.99)
("AMD 790FX/SB750, Quad PCIe x16, Ideal OC platform")

NOTE: I believe these are Crossfire/ATI. I am getting NVIDIA. Is there an equivalent to these AMD boards, perhaps even asus, that's has the nvidia chipset?



RAM:

"Kingston HyperX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104043
($78.99)

or

"Kingston 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134641
($60.49)



Hard Drives:

"Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31000340AS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148274
($129.99)
~~~~~ ...in addition to... ~~~~~
"Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31000340AS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148274
($129.99)

or

"Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31000340AS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148274
($129.99)
~~~~~ ...in addition to... ~~~~~
"Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148288&Tpk=Seagate 500gb SATA
($69.99)

or

"Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31000340AS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148274
($129.99)
~~~~~ ...in addition to... ~~~~~
"Western Digital Caviar GP WD5000AACS 500GB 5400 to 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136149
($64.99)
~~~~~ ...in addition to... ~~~~~
"Western Digital Caviar GP WD5000AACS 500GB 5400 to 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136149
($64.99)

or

Another arrangement of 2, 3, or more hard drives ranging from 1.5 TB to 2+ TB costing hopefully no more (hopefully less) than $260 (2TB) or $195 (1.5TB).



Case:

I have absolutely _no_ idea.
Looking for: full tower (ATX), something clear and glowy, with good air circulation, is solid/stable, functions well.
A non-clear option: Someone had mentioned Antec 900 is very quiet, I like that (especially for music), though I'd still love to have a clear.
($ price range, not sure atm.)



PSU:

"CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006&Tpk=corsair 750
($119.99)
(Price goes up by 10% after 10/22.)

or

"PC Power & Cooling S75QB 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI NVIDIA SLI Certified (Dual 8800 GTX and below) CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703009
($144.99)



GPU:

"EVGA 512-P3-N873-AR GeForce 9800 GTX+ 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130376
($189.99)
($159.99 after $30.00 Mail-In Rebate, available up to 11/5, with special savings on AMD CPU combo, ends 11/5)

or

"XFX PVT98FYDBU GeForce 9800 GTX Black Edition 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150297
($189.99)
(Black Edition overclocked at 760MHz)

or

"EVGA 512-P3-N871-AR GeForce 9800 GTX(G92) 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130339
($159.99)

or

"XFX PVT98GYDLU GeForce 9800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150316
($129.99)
($109.99 after $20.00 Mail-In Rebate)
(Free Call of Duty 4 included, while supplies last.)

or

"MSI N260GTX-T2D896 OC GeForce GTX 260 896MB 448-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127361
($239.99)
(Free Rainbow 6 Vegas2 game w/ purchase, limited offer.)
(A GTX260 might be out of my current price range; it depends on what other components I get.)



Audio:

Internal:

"ASUS Xonar D2 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Interface Ultra Fidelity Sound Card with Complete Dolby/DTS Sound Technologies - Retail"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132001&Tpk=Asus Xonar D2
($179.99)
($149.99 after $30.00 Mail-In Rebate)

or

Something totally different, effective for gaming purposes only.
($ price range, not sure atm.)

~~~~~ ...in addition to internal for gaming, getting external for music production... ~~~~~

External:

Something from M-Audio, Emu, RME, or similar (not sure).
I'd like to get something like that Yamaha mixer that doubles as sound card, though am not sure model #.



DVD:

All of the DVD burners seem to be right around $25 or $26, I don't know if it really matters which one to get? I won't be getting bluray just yet.



LCD Monitor:

I really don't know about this yet... I'm still working on the "guts" inside the computer case. I am interested in at least 22" and of course as inexpensive (but good quality) as possible. I would also like to have at least 1680x1050 resolution.



Keyboard:

"RAZER Lycosa RZ03-00180100 Black 104 Normal Keys 7 Function Keys USB Standard Gaming Keyboard - Retail"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823114004&Tpk=Razer Lycosa Gaming Keyboard
($84.99)
(That's odd, it was only $79.99 the other day.)

or

Another keyboard if someone knows of a good one (without the attached gaming pad).



Music Keyboard:

Probably something (only 1 or 2 octaves) by M-Audio.



Gaming Pad:

"BELKIN F8GFPC200 N52TE Tournament Edition - Retail"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826169019&Tpk=Belkin N52 Tournament Edition.
($69.99)

or

Another one, similar to it, if a better deal is available.
(I do like that it is separate from the keyboard.)



Mouse:

"RAZER RZ01-00020200 Red 7 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB Wired Optical 1600 dpi Diamondback Precision Gaming Salamander Mouse - Retail"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826153029
($39.99)

or

Another one if better deal. (There appear to be multiple possibilities by Razer.)



Speakers:
"Logitech Z-5500 505 Watts 5.1 Speaker - Retail"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121120&Tpk=Logitech Z-5500
($252.99)
($212.99 after $40.00 Mail-In Rebate)
(Combo savings with Viewsonic [19"] monitor, ends 10/31.)

or

Something more affordable for gaming purposes. I won't be using these with music production. I'll have an entirely dedicated set of speakers and gear for that.



Mic:

Labtec Verse 333 PC Microphone.
$9.99 (tigerdirect.com)
(I think I'll hold off on something like this until I know if I'm getting a monitor with built-in cam+mic.)



Headset:

"TRITTON TRI-AI712 4 x 3.5mm Circumaural AX 51 - Gaming Headset"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826235003&Tpk=TRITTON AX51
$69.99

or

"Creative FATAL1TY 3.5mm gold-plated Circumaural Gaming Headset"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826158051
($49.99)
(Special savings, ends 10/31.)

or

"TekNmotion TM-PSX100A 3.5mm/ USB Circumaural Pulsewave / Pulsar SX PC Gaming Headphone"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826289001
($54.99)



UPS:

I have no idea.



LAN:

I'm guessing it's completely okay to use the one integrated into the motherboard. I doubt it's really necessary to get a special "gaming network card".



WLAN:

I really don't know about this yet. It does need to be compatible with Unix and Linux.



Wireless Router:

I might put this on hold and stick with the old wireless router, for now at least. I'll probably get a really nice Linksys when I get a new one.



Cable Modem:

I really don't know about this yet... I'm still working on the "guts" inside the computer case.



Coolers:

Ditto, I really don't know about this yet... and I should probably figure this out soon, since coolers are some of the most important parts of the "guts" inside a computer case. RAM coolers, lots of fans, thermal paste, who knows what else. I'll still look into those 2 links provided in an earlier reply (to cooling and silencing computers).




Computer Desk Chair:

I think I'll just go ahead and get one at the local furniture store at a decent price (for now).



Computer Desk:

Ditto, I'll probably pick up a desk/table locally. I don't know what to get though, yet I'd really like either a very basic computer desk or a pretty fancy computer "table".

I'll probably get a laptop stand with it, like the "Allsop Metal Art" brand "corner monitor/notebook stand".





Here are some updates on the comments for some components:

CPU:
I'm not sure what the difference is in prices with "OEM" and "Retail". As I said before, I honestly like both Intel and AMD, though I want AMD with my first computer. I'll get something from the i7 series in the future, if they're not phasing it out by that point in time. Though, by that point in time the new AMD will most likely look pretty tasty. 

Case:
I removed my original option from the list because it had too many negative reviews. I'd love to have an all-clear case with some pretty glowing lights. If there is a similar case that has more clear parts to it than just one side panel, that could be pretty neat too.

PSU:
I'm still a little unfamiliar with power supplies, though have gained a slightly better understanding this past week. With the current rig I'm assuming 750W is enough, and that having a little breathing room is good. I know having too little power is very bad, though don't know if it's possible to have too much.





Here are some questions that hopefully some people can help with:

Motherboard:
There are 13 (or more?) motherboards that might work with my CPU. Here's a sample list:
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=1004226&postcount=4544
I'd like to be able to upgrade components later, for example, AMD's Agena after it has been out for a while.
How do I select the right motherboard?

RAM:
Should I get the HyperX or the normal?
Should I go ECC or non-ECC?

Hard Drive:
Is there a difference in compatibility with motherboard between a SATA and SATA-II hard drive?

Case:
What could I consider getting?
(Trying to find something "mostly clear", some "glowy stuff", good air circulation, solid/stable, and functions well.)

GPU:
How do I know if the GPU has at least "Shader Model 3.0 capable Video card, Direct X 9c, 256 MB RAM"? (Some of the requirements for the game I'm testing.)
How many GPUs do I need so I can use 3 LCD monitors at once?
(Only using 1 monitor this year, will have 3 next year.)

Audio:
What could I get away with as an affordable internal sound card for gaming?
What could I use for an external music production audio device/interface that would perhaps be similar to that Yamaha mixer "plus external soundcard" that was posted earlier in this thread?
Any ideas what the model is on that Yamaha?

Speakers:
I'll have a dedicated set of speakers/gear for music production. What is a good set of 5.1 speakers for gaming that isn't as expensive as the Z-5500 ($250) speakers?

UPS:
I don't know... but this is important. Illinois power is so horrible that it has damaged my rather expensive power amp to my stereo system. I won't be using it again until I replace the fuse, which won't be until I get a couple surge protectors and UPS-type items. I'll use a UPS on the computer set-up, though probably only a protector on the entertainment system. What could I get for both?

"Bonus" questions:
What are some AMD-based motherboards (supporting Phenom) that has the nvidia chipset?
For 1 year from now, how could one use 3 monitors with an AMD motherboard and nvidia?
Top brands for various kinds of coolers?
Regarding monitors, is 8000:1 and 4000:1 stuff basically the quality of the contrast between brights and darks?
Silly question... UPS... the U = uninterrupted, right? (I used to think it was "universal.")
Do 5.1 headphones/headsets literally (physically) exist? (Bizarre!)
Are 120mm fans less noisy and/or more effective than 80mm fans?
What's the difference (or is one better) between (ASUS) 790FX and 790GX?

Thank you everybody very much!


EDIT:

When I make another significant update to the list I'll add a fresh reply. One addition to the list will be an external sound device in place of the internal sound card, perhaps a Yamaha mixer/soundboard capable of connecting to the computer. Perhaps an Emu 1616 device as well.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 18, 2008)

respect the stuff he has suggested, and dont bash him because he went with AMD k, if you dont like what you see as of CPU don't Post. Look at the Other specs of it, aka the board.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 18, 2008)

now if im mistaken, I would suggest the 9850, depending on how much lower the price is, because i think the Deneb do Support the AMD 790FX/GX with 750 SB, and i believe also Nvidias Chipset.

But back to the board, if you want to run Crossfire you will need a AMD CHipset motherboard, if you want SLI you need a Nvidia chipset, but you didnt specify those capabilities so either chipset will do.


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## the_professor (Oct 18, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> now if im mistaken, I would suggest the 9850, depending on how much lower the price is, because i think the Deneb do Support the AMD 790FX/GX with 750 SB, and i believe also Nvidias Chipset.
> 
> But back to the board, if you want to run Crossfire you will need a AMD CHipset motherboard, if you want SLI you need a Nvidia chipset, but you didnt specify those capabilities so either chipset will do.




Oh... there is actually an AMD chipset motherboard. I think that's what I've been looking at, assuming that it is required so I can use AMD CPU.

So I can use an "nvidia chipset motherboard", for  SLI, but it will be a motherboard that also "supports" AMD CPUs?

I will use nvidia/sli this time around. (lol... hopefully nobody jumps in and starts bible-beating ATI). 

I also found this monitor (24") recently...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009154

It might not be as good as some others mentioned in the OP of this thread, I don't know.

How do AMD 9850 and 9950 differ (or how are they similar)?


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## Dia01 (Oct 18, 2008)

"I have absolutely no idea.
Looking for: full tower (ATX), something clear and glowy, with good air circulation, is solid/stable, functions well.
A non-clear option: Someone had mentioned Antec 900 is very quiet, I like that (especially for music), though I'd still love to have a clear.
($ price range, not sure atm.)"

Lian Li cases are quality, clear and glowy?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112195


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## the_professor (Oct 18, 2008)

Dia01 said:


> "I have absolutely no idea.
> Looking for: full tower (ATX), something clear and glowy, with good air circulation, is solid/stable, functions well.
> A non-clear option: Someone had mentioned Antec 900 is very quiet, I like that (especially for music), though I'd still love to have a clear.
> ($ price range, not sure atm.)"
> ...



Going through the 4 pages of Lian Li cases at newegg.com, they certainly appear to be very good quality... and expensive. 

The case that you linked, and similar ones by them, does have the 1 side panel that is clear and some pretty glowy stuff can be thrown into the mix. However, I'm hoping to find something that has more clear than just the 1 side panel. Any ideas?

The 100% clear Logisys that I originally found would be sweet but it ended up getting the shatty end of the stick in reviews, lots of complaints about problems with it. <sigh>


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## Dia01 (Oct 18, 2008)

the_professor said:


> Going through the 4 pages of Lian Li cases at newegg.com, they certainly appear to be very good quality... and expensive.
> 
> The case that you linked, and similar ones by them, does have the 1 side panel that is clear and some pretty glowy stuff can be thrown into the mix. However, I'm hoping to find something that has more clear than just the 1 side panel. Any ideas?
> 
> The 100% clear Logisys that I originally found would be sweet but it ended up getting the shatty end of the stick in reviews, lots of complaints about problems with it. <sigh>



I personally do not have much advice with clear cases, you could always mod a case to your own personal tastes.  Take a browse in the case gallery for ideas.


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## A Cheese Danish (Oct 18, 2008)

From what I hear about "Clear" or acrylic cases is that EVERYTHING shows. And by everything I mean it. Dust, hair, whatever; you name it, you can see it.  I agree with Dia01 about Lian-Li. They have some marvelous cases out on the market and are very stable and reliable.

The monitor situation you have. That Acer looks like a pretty good one you got there. Looking at your first post about the Acer X223WBD, well, I currently use that one and it is absolutely amazing for the price! Although, if you are still having troubles deciding on what brand, IMO, I'd pick between Samsung or Acer, just because I have heard a lot of good things from both of them, and the reviews for both are great! If you knew exactly what screen size you wanted, or resolution, it would be a little bit more easier to figure out what would work best for you.


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## King Wookie (Oct 18, 2008)

Check these out for see through cases:

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...th=105&zenid=9db94474f1ecf58a3ab0bd45f446c06a


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## Katanai (Oct 18, 2008)

Yamaha MG 102C

http://en.euroguitar.com/mixer/yamaha/mg/mg102c/117566.html

This one is even a bit cheaper.

And yeah you don't need that Asus Xonar if you get this. You only need one sound card in your system. Your motherboard will already have an integrated sound card that will sit around and do nothing. There is absolutely no need to have 3 sound cards in a system... :shadedshu

Your practically wasting money here on things that won't help you at all yet you are skimping on parts that would raise the performance bar by a lot.

But I'm already feeling like I'm talking alone here. You said you needed a sound card for sound recording, well that Asus Xonar is a great card but not for recording. It only has one input. So yeah you could only record one instrument at a time. My suggestion has 10 inputs with volume for each channel, plus a 3 band master equalizer,hence why it's called a mixer, so basically you could record a live guitar, drums, keyboard etc. upt to 10 instruments...

But do whatever you want. It's your money not mine. I was only trying to help. This is my last post though in this thread as I don't feel like spamming your thread.


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## King Wookie (Oct 18, 2008)

Katanai, thx for finding links for the Yamaha.

As I only source locally, I have no idea where to source overseas. You are helping fill in the gaps.

Problem is, others are focusing on the gaming aspect, for that's what they know. Pro audio is not the same animal as PC gaming. Different toys and requirements.

Between us all, we may be able to give the professor the info he needs.


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## the_professor (Oct 19, 2008)

Dia01 said:


> I personally do not have much advice with clear cases, you could always mod a case to your own personal tastes.  Take a browse in the case gallery for ideas.



There were some pretty cool ones in the gallery... though I'm starting to have a change of heart on the 100% clear variety. 



A Cheese Danish said:


> From what I hear about "Clear" or acrylic cases is that EVERYTHING shows. And by everything I mean it. Dust, hair, whatever; you name it, you can see it.  I agree with Dia01 about Lian-Li. They have some marvelous cases out on the market and are very stable and reliable.
> 
> The monitor situation you have. That Acer looks like a pretty good one you got there. Looking at your first post about the Acer X223WBD, well, I currently use that one and it is absolutely amazing for the price! Although, if you are still having troubles deciding on what brand, IMO, I'd pick between Samsung or Acer, just because I have heard a lot of good things from both of them, and the reviews for both are great! If you knew exactly what screen size you wanted, or resolution, it would be a little bit more easier to figure out what would work best for you.



...and that is exactly what my change of heart is all about... earlier this week when I read the reviews on the Logisys clear case, lots of complaints included how easily they look "dirty" (showing everything, dust, etc.) That planted a seed in the back of my mind that has since grown into "don't get all clear".

So for monitors, I can't go wrong with any of the options I listed? (Either of the 22" monitors I originally listed (by Acer and Samsung) or the recent 24" Acer?)

Any ideas on how I can narrow it down?

I'd like...
Screen size: at least 22" or 24".
Resolution: at least 1680x1050.

So... what will work best for me? 



King Wookie said:


> Check these out for see through cases:
> 
> http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...th=105&zenid=9db94474f1ecf58a3ab0bd45f446c06a



Those look really cool but lately I've started thinking about how "dirty" they'll look after even a tiny bit of dust collects inside. 



Katanai said:


> Yamaha MG 102C
> 
> http://en.euroguitar.com/mixer/yamaha/mg/mg102c/117566.html
> 
> ...



I said it before... I _like_ the Yamaha you mentioned... I am _very_ likely going to get it. I just haven't added it to my updated list yet. Thank you - seriously - I am very glad to have been made aware of such possibilities.

My question, though, is should I get a different internal card for gaming, specifically, or will the integrated card and/or the external sound device (aka yamaha mixer) work equally well with gaming?

I'm gradually improving the list such that I don't waste money and that I get parts that _do_ raise the performance bar. It's a work in progress. Because it is my first computer, I am not going to rush into this, although I do need it soon... hopefully as soon as within the next week or two.

You're not talking alone. I'm with you on a lot of things. Yes, I'm getting AMD, and I think you said get Intel. That's okay. I will get Intel, another day. I am not sure if you said I should get ATI or NVIDIA, though I'm getting NVIDIA. That's okay, too. I will get ATI, another day.

Any input you have outside of CPU or GPU, I'd really like to hear.



King Wookie said:


> Katanai, thx for finding links for the Yamaha.
> 
> As I only source locally, I have no idea where to source overseas. You are helping fill in the gaps.
> 
> ...



I agree, I'm glad to have a reference to that Yamaha board now.

The trick now is, which one do I get? Is that exact model a good choice or is the one that is about $50 more a better choice? Or is the one that is about $100 more a better choice? What are the differences, pros/cons, to using any of them? I'd love to know these things.

Plus...
How do I connect something like that Yamaha mixer into my computer?

And...
Is the mixer really an "external sound card"?

I'm not really sure what functions are included within the internal sound cards, so I don't really know how they differ from "external sound card"-type devices. I hope to be enlightened on this.

You made a great point - "different toys and requirements" - and so far most of the input I've received has been tremendously helpful toward building a gaming computer. I would like to have a better idea on building a music production computer. Any ideas?

I know external sound devices are a good idea - people have mentioned that - as well as a nice MIDI music keyboard. I don't know what would be some specific examples of "external sound devices" that I could get, or which MIDI keyboards (the smaller ones) are the best deals available.


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## the_professor (Oct 20, 2008)

I'm having trouble finding a "mobo" similar to the ASUS 780fx/780gx only that is nvidia/sli instead of ati/crossfire. If I am unable to find a decent sli-equivalent motherboard, then I might actually switch GPU from nvidia to ati... as much as I need to get nvidia (for the game (which works better with it) and for *nix OSs) my motherboard is actually more important to me than my GPU. It is 1/2 music 1/2 gaming, so only a decent GPU will be good enough, I only hope that - if I _do_ go ATI instead of nVidia - that it will not introduce problems to gameplay during the beta-testing.

The 780fx/gx is in the high-100s $$$... the closest sli version I found, so far, is in the low-100s $$$. So it is also lacking in neat features... but I might be okay with that as long as what it _does_ have is pretty effective for what I need. If there's a nice ASUS am2+/sli board in the mid/upper 100s, I might get it.

Plus... I'm considering getting 1066 instead of 800 for RAM... and maybe 8GB instead of 4GB, either maxing out an 8GB capable motherboard or getting a 16GB motherboard and going with 8GB. Problem, though, is that if I do 1066 I can only use 1 DIMM per RAM module "group". (If there are 4 slots, I can only use 2.) So I might just stick with 800 so I can utilize all 4. I'm not sure really what kind of difference (if noticeable?) there would be between 800 and 1066 in RAM.


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## lilkiduno (Oct 22, 2008)

the_professor said:


> I'm having trouble finding a "mobo" similar to the ASUS 780fx/780gx only that is nvidia/sli instead of ati/crossfire. If I am unable to find a decent sli-equivalent motherboard, then I might actually switch GPU from nvidia to ati... as much as I need to get nvidia (for the game (which works better with it) and for *nix OSs) my motherboard is actually more important to me than my GPU. It is 1/2 music 1/2 gaming, so only a decent GPU will be good enough, I only hope that - if I _do_ go ATI instead of nVidia - that it will not introduce problems to gameplay during the beta-testing




here is a ASUS mobo with a nVIDIA chipset that im sure is compatible with your CPU.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131292


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## the_professor (Oct 22, 2008)

lilkiduno said:


> here is a ASUS mobo with a nVIDIA chipset that im sure is compatible with your CPU.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131292



Regarding motherboards-

That Crosshair II is a beauty... and for nearly $300 it should be.  I had it on my "shopping cart" over at newegg.com at one time though have since been looking for a nice one a little lower in price, possibly one of the M3N78 boards. (Though I might be willing to go back to that one if it really is the #1 option... the motherboard is a pretty important part for me.)

There seem to be 3 versions of the M3N78 ("VM", "EMH", and "PRO"), all 3 matching the Phenom; and 2 versions of the Crosshair (the original and the "II"), only the "II" matching the Phenom.

Here's a comparison of differences between
"ASUS Crosshair II Formula AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA nForce 780a SLI HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard"
and
"ASUS M3N78 PRO AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 8300 HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard"

I'll list the Crosshair II feature 1st and the M3N78 PRO feature 2nd...

North Bridge  	NVIDIA nForce 780a SLI
North Bridge  	NVIDIA GeForce 8300

Memory Standard  	"DDR2 1066"
Memory Standard  	"DDR2 1066
*Due to AMD CPU limitation, DDR2 1066 is supported by AM2+ CPU for one DIMM per channel only."

PCI Express 2.0 x16  	3 x PCIe 2.0 x16 support NVIDIA SLI Tech @ dual x16 or 3-way@x8, x8, x 8
PCI Express 2.0 x16  	1

PCI Slots  	2
PCI Slots  	3

(Both have "PCI Express x1  	2")
(Both have "NVIDIA GeForce 8 series" for Onboard Video Chipset)

Audio Chipset  	ADI AD1988B
Audio Chipset  	Realtek ALC1200

LAN Chipset  	?
LAN Chipset  	Realtek 8211CL

Video Ports  	D-Sub
Video Ports  	(doesn't have "D-Sub")

S/PDIF Out  	1x Optical, 1x Coaxial
S/PDIF Out  	1x Coaxial

Package Contents  	Game Disk, 2-way & 3-way SLI Bridge, USB & IEEE 1394 Bracket, Audio Card, Accessories
Package Contents  	FDD Cable, COM Bracket

Warranty  	3 years limited
Warranty  	?

The Crosshair II is $260, the M3N78 PRO is $105. I suppose the question could be either "which features do I need" or "how much can I spend"...

The Crosshair II is an additional $155 for what appears to be mostly a difference in SLI (2-way or 3-way), audio chipset, having D-Sub, and an Optical out.

I had to google/wiki search North Bridge and South Bridge. A wiki page says nb is for memory and graphics and sb is for PCI, clock, power, USB, and "other".

If I ask myself "which features do I need" with the Crosshair II add-ons:

I know that I won't be using 2-way or 3-way SLI right now, though there's a possibility that I will next year when I upgrade the system.

The audio chipset is important for gaming and general computing but I will need very good audio for music production (with which I will use external components most likely).

I don't know if I'll need D-Sub or Optical out, not really sure the advantages in those and necessity for my purposes. Maybe yes maybe no?

If I ask myself "how much can i spend":

If it turns out I only need one or two of the extra features, perhaps there is another motherboard like the Crosshair II but at a lower price range, or, perhaps I can balance out the prices of my other computer components so that I can put more $ into the motherboard. Ohhh the decisions! 

There is a combo available (at newegg.com) with the Crosshair II that includes a 1200W PSU! That's nuts, do I need that much power? I'm thinking 750W, though if it's safer to go higher I will.

The bit about 1066 MHz RAM confuses me. One says "DDR2 1066" without the "limitation" message. Does that mean that one can have all 4 DIMMs running at 1066 MHz?

The message says it's a CPU limitation, so I'm guessing there is no way to use all 4 DIMMs at 1066 MHz regardless of motherboard. 

Though this isn't a concern for the immediate future, since I only need 4GB (2x2GB) RAM at 1066 MHz. People have said that 8GB RAM is a waste, that it's more of a "for servers only" kind of thing. Though I am not sure what the chances are that we could actually benefit from 8GB RAM on a personal computer.

Regarding heatsinks+fans-

I'm trying to find a separate heatsink+fan that works well with the AMD Phenom 9950, though the "compatibility" descriptions at newegg.com are pretty vague.

Here's an example I found:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118020
(ZALMAN CNPS 9700 NT 110mm 2 Ball Ultra Quiet CPU Cooler)

That was listed in the search for heatsinks and fans, though the actual heatsink is nothing at all like the boxy looking ones seen in other heatsinks+fans. I'm also not sure if the Zalman, linked above, is compatible with the AMD Phenom 9950 CPU. It mentions "AM2" but doesn't say "AM2+", I'm not sure if that "+" really matters in this case. I do like that the Zalman has the "ultra quiet" tag. Or, is there a better heatsink+fan available?

Regarding PSUs-

I've also been comparing PSUs and originally selected a Corsair 750W, though there's a combo deal available with the Thermaltake 750W (with the NVIDIA 9800GTX+). How do those 2 brands of PSUs compare?

Regarding GPUs-

At the moment I'm getting the 9800GTX+, though I'm still price hunting to see if I find a better deal on an ATI (equally powerful at the same lower price range). So far, I see that the HD4850 is weaker than the 9800GTX+, yet at a comparable price range, and the HD4870 is more powerful than the 9800GTX+, yet at too high of a price range. Plus, this is only a "1/2 gaming" computer, the other 1/2 is music production (which is more of a priority, it's my career). So, I am going to see if I can put more $ into music gear for the computer, mostly external devices.

Thanks again for the great input.


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## thirdshiftdj (Oct 22, 2008)

check out presonus firebox, edirol ua25 or a focusrite saffire (if you'd like to deal w/ the software which I've heard is alittle confusing to learn and setup)


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## spearman914 (Oct 22, 2008)

Everything is good except the kingston crap. Kingston memory is usually for laptop memory NEVER FOR GAMING SYSTEMS. And don't get DDR3 yet, you won't get as much benefit from DDR2 with the money. For LCD:Samsung 226BW is great. No dead pixels for the one I received and great quality.


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## the_professor (Oct 22, 2008)

thirdshiftdj said:


> check out presonus firebox, edirol ua25 or a focusrite saffire (if you'd like to deal w/ the software which I've heard is alittle confusing to learn and setup)



Thank you... where can I find those at? The 1st and 3rd ones ring a bell, though I can't pinpoint it.



spearman914 said:


> Everything is good except the kingston crap. Kingston memory is usually for laptop memory NEVER FOR GAMING SYSTEMS. And don't get DDR3 yet, you won't get as much benefit from DDR2 with the money.



Yep, I think I'll be getting G.SKILL... 4GB (2x2GB) 1066 MHz... maybe.


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## jbdub1771 (Oct 22, 2008)

> Everything is good except the kingston crap. Kingston memory is usually for laptop memory NEVER FOR GAMING SYSTEMS. And don't get DDR3 yet, you won't get as much benefit from DDR2 with the money. For LCD:Samsung 226BW is great. No dead pixels for the one I received and great quality.



Kingston memory is crap?? how i have 8GB of it and its speed is 667mhz and it is overclocked easily to 1200mhz with 5-5-5-15 so how is that crap?


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## the_professor (Oct 23, 2008)

I've had good luck with Kingston... though I'm just going with the flow with things and am adjusting what I ultimately get based mostly on best deal for the money.


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## lilkiduno (Oct 24, 2008)

the_professor said:


> I've had good luck with Kingston... though I'm just going with the flow with things and am adjusting what I ultimately get based mostly on best deal for the money.



i understand that...lol... i didn't shop around and scrwed myself out of 80 bucks, hey i know thats not a lot of money but that money i could have saved...lol


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## the_professor (Oct 24, 2008)

lilkiduno said:


> i understand that...lol... i didn't shop around and scrwed myself out of 80 bucks, hey i know thats not a lot of money but that money i could have saved...lol



True. I hope that I can save 80 bucks, basically, and put that $ into another computer component.  Though the down side is that it's taking me longer to finalize my decision on all of the computer "guts". I know some people could just zip through the options and know what they want very quickly, though I'm a newbie to this and want to make sure I'm comfortable with the decisions. Some others have joked about "the time it took to write all that" (my lengthy lists in here, etc.) "I could have selected, bought, and built my computer". All the more power to those people, I guess I'm not a guru like them. lol I do need to speed things up a bit, though it's tricky when I'm also making a computer that will be optimal for music production as well as gaming, and I'm checking with various sources for feedback, not just tpu forums. The best music feedback I can receive is certainly not on this site... it's actually my old professor from way back.  ...now it's just a matter of waiting for their reply (it'll be year 2020 by the time I hear back). lol


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## lilkiduno (Oct 24, 2008)

yeah i understand where your coming from, even thought i bought all my hardware pretty quick and didn't really take my time to plan everything out is because i knew everything i bought would work together through first hand experenice. my cousin has basiclt the exact same computer as the one i build the main differences are the video cards (his 2x 8800GTS VS. mine 2x 9800GTX+) and mother board, the basic difference is mine is a step up kind of (his 780i ATX VS. mine 780i FTW).

but im glad your going thought more the one fourm. the more people to help you the better your chances are to get the very best rig for what you plan on using it for.

Good luck. and as soon as you post another reply/post you get yourself your third star...lol...


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## the_professor (Oct 24, 2008)

...at the moment I'm doing some digging into music recording/composing equipment...


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## lilkiduno (Oct 24, 2008)

cool i hope you find the best equpiment for what you need


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## King Wookie (Oct 24, 2008)

Check out these sites for equipment reviews:

http://mixonline.com/

http://www.soundonsound.com/

http://www.musictechmag.co.uk/

http://www.futuremusic.co.uk/

Just to wet your appetite.


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## the_professor (Nov 2, 2008)

The computer has been ordered, purchased, packaged for delivery, and is in transit as I write this.



I'll update my list to version 2.0 or something once I know all the parts I ordered actually work.  I'm guessing I'll possibly get a DOA or similar.

I had to order Windows Vista (64-bit)... but ended up getting the OEM so I saved something-hundred dollars. It arrived in the mail really fast, on day 2 (one day after ordering).

Day 3 = my new mouse came in, the Razer Lachesis "Banshee Blue".
Plus.... my new keyboard arrived, the Razer Lycosa (more glowy blue stuff).

Some Arctic Silver 5 + remover was supposed to come in that day but never did. Maybe Monday.

That was Friday. Nothing came in over the weekend.

As of Friday, I had 12% of my new computer gear (I haven't ordered audio recording gear yet).

Today I went out and bought my new desk and chair (and a floor thing for the carpet/chair).

As of Saturday (today), I have 20% of the stuff.

On Monday I should hopefully have at least %52 of it.

I'm hoping all 100% is in by Tuesdays. <crossing my fingers.>

I'm starting to narrow down a "starter kit" for myself as it involves recording audio/music. It will possibly include: 2 AT2020 mics, 2 XLR cables, 2 mic boom stands, M-Audio 1010LT (only if it works in Linux), and maybe a mixer (which is optional since I'll have one in my computer software). I'll use my Sennheiser headphones for mastering recordings until I can budget in a nice pair of studio monitor speakers.


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## King Wookie (Nov 2, 2008)

the_professor said:


> I'm starting to narrow down a "starter kit" for myself as it involves recording audio/music. It will possibly include: 2 AT2020 mics, 2 XLR cables, 2 mic boom stands, M-Audio 1010LT (only if it works in Linux), and maybe a mixer (which is optional since I'll have one in my computer software). I'll use my Sennheiser headphones for mastering recordings until I can budget in a nice pair of studio monitor speakers.



Sounds like a viable setup. Adding some seperate mic preamplifiers later can give you a nice quality boost, especialy ones with built in eq and compression. Plenty options around, but the Joemeek units can sound quite sweet and are not too pricey.

Now, just need some acoustic treatment maybe. Hanging duvets with a space behind them is a cheap option. 

Just have fun, and shout if you need some more advice.


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## the_professor (Nov 2, 2008)

King Wookie said:


> Sounds like a viable setup. Adding some seperate mic preamplifiers later can give you a nice quality boost, especialy ones with built in eq and compression. Plenty options around, but the Joemeek units can sound quite sweet and are not too pricey.
> 
> Now, just need some acoustic treatment maybe. Hanging duvets with a space behind them is a cheap option.
> 
> Just have fun, and shout if you need some more advice.



Acoustical treatment might be tricky at first. My living situation: I rent, have a noisy fridge on the other side of the wall to the studio, have very noisy neighbors below me (uber-very noisy), have 2 windows in the studio, the floor creaks, and this is all very close to a noisy gas station and major highway.  I'd be set if I can cut out the noise from outside/inside and next to/below me... and all in a temporary fashion since I'm renting. 

Mic preamps will come in handy, plus they're condensors so it'll help a lot. I think there might somewhat of a preamp in the card, though if I get another piece of hardware to go in between mics and card it could have some phantom power (perhaps the yamaha mg166cx mixer).

I checked out the joe meek site, pretty cool gear!


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## -Spanky- (Nov 4, 2008)

Learning from Head-Fi, the best stock card for gaming and music production would have to be the AuzenTech X-FI Prelude. Otherwise get something more professional and external.


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## King Wookie (Nov 4, 2008)

A good site to look at:

http://www.linuxmusicians.com/

Specifically :

http://wiki.linuxmusicians.com/doku.php?id=hardware&DokuWiki=9c35ecddca14cd5acd0f026bbda8428d

According to this post, the M-Audio 1010LT will work under Linux:

http://www.linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=268

Do note that it doesn't supply phantom power, which condensor mics use to work.
You can buy an external phantom power supply though, and they tend to be cheap.
If you are handy with the soldering iron, you can evem make one.

Another option, if you can afford it, is the AKG C1000.
http://www.akg.com/site/products/powerslave,id,759,pid,759,nodeid,2,_language,EN.html

One of my all time favourite mics. Also, works fine on internal battery or phantom. It's what I'd buy.


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## the_professor (Nov 5, 2008)

-Spanky- said:


> Learning from Head-Fi, the best stock card for gaming and music production would have to be the AuzenTech X-FI Prelude. Otherwise get something more professional and external.



Looks like a cool card, though I don't think it has I/Os for XLR & MIDI, a must have for recording.  At the moment I'm leaning toward the MAudio 1010lt. I don't know if it packs a punch for gaming, though it packs a punch for anything else audio-related. 



King Wookie said:


> A good site to look at:
> 
> http://www.linuxmusicians.com/
> 
> ...



Those are great sites, I've been checking them out. The AKG is cool, something I'd go for in the future. I didn't know that about the 1010lt - having no phantom power, that completely eluded me - I believe the Yamaha MG166C has phtanom power (as well as a few other useful immediate goodies and some room to grow as I add mics to the mix).


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## King Wookie (Nov 6, 2008)

Well, looking at the Yamaha, it looks to be a good choice for you.

The only downsides is it only records at 16 bit resolution, and only 2 channels at a time.

Considering most soundcards support 24 bit and multiple channels, that's the tradeoff.

If you feel you can live with those compromises, then go for it!
Otherwise, grab the 1010LT and a phantom adapter box for now, then a reasonable mic preamplifier later to upgrade.


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## the_professor (Nov 6, 2008)

King Wookie said:


> Well, looking at the Yamaha, it looks to be a good choice for you.
> 
> The only downsides is it only records at 16 bit resolution, and only 2 channels at a time.
> 
> ...



I didn't know about the 16 bit vs 24 bit... hmm.

What did you mean by it records only 2 channels at a time?

Is there a 16 bit card with otherwise similar features as the 1010LT (like I/Os for XLR and MIDI)?

By the way, my mobo was doa. lol I had to swap it. woohoo!


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## King Wookie (Nov 7, 2008)

The Yamaha documentation is not clear on this, so I stand to be corrected.
Most mixers with usb connections only output 2 channels of audio via usb at one time. More often than not they are sending your main outputs. Not a major problem, but can be a bit limiting as it's preferable to record everything separately so as to give you more control when editing and mixing.

FYI, 24 bit is the preferred format for recording these days, as the increased dynamic range and resolution is always a good thing. Do note that 24 bit equipment will work without issues at 16 bit. The general idea is to record, edit, and mix at 24 bit; then convert to 16 bit just before burning to cd. 

If you could post links to the pro audio shops you may want to deal with, it will help me to recommend equipment for you. 

As the 1010LT has a proven track record with linux, I'd suggest sticking with it. Lets just build a viable system around it.

These should not be too pricey:
http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1747&brandID=2
http://www.behringer.com/PS400/index.cfm?lang=ENG

And a handy box to have:
http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1650&brandID=2

Samson make some pretty decent budget gear. I use some of their gear, and it's not bad.
Behringer have not always impressed me with the quality of their gear, especially their mixers, but for odd adapters like a phantom supply their stuff is fine.

Plenty more options out there, but this should give you an idea.


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## thirdshiftdj (Nov 11, 2008)

the_professor said:


> Thank you... where can I find those at? The 1st and 3rd ones ring a bell, though I can't pinpoint it.



Best bet is go on ebay the saffires le goes for $200 while the saffire is $250.  Best bang for your buck and will go against higher $400-500 interfaces.  Software is a bitch to use and setup though.  You can't go wrong w/ the firebox or the edirol ua25.  Edirol has the better build quality and same quality preamps.  I own the Edirol myself.  Has a builit in analog compressor/limiter w/ phantom power 24bit 92khz


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