# Finally buildiing a new system ( AM4 )



## AsRock (Apr 15, 2020)

The parts i am looking at are

*AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
CORSAIR VENGEANCELPX16GB (2x 8GB) 
ASRock X570 Pro 4*

As i am not planning to upgrade again for some time and do know that the 3900X is way more than i need, as far as i can tell the memory should be ok.  I am not bothered about wifi and all that.

As i DO NOT shop at Newegg were would the best place be to get this stuff from now ?, as of now it's all on Amazon which are a pain in the ass as their delivery service likes to dump the stuff on the public footpath in the rain to boot.

Item links



			https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-3900X-24-Thread-Processor/dp/B07SXMZLP9/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2PGB54ZYMTXIV&dchild=1&keywords=3900x+cpu&qid=1586956144&s=electronics&sprefix=3900x%2Celectronics%2C171&sr=1-1
		







						Amazon.com: ASRock X570 Pro 4 AM4/4DDR4/HDMI/DP/ATX Motherboard : Electronics
					

Buy ASRock X570 Pro 4 AM4/4DDR4/HDMI/DP/ATX Motherboard: Motherboards - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com
				






			https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-PC4-28800-1-35V-Desktop-Memory/dp/B07FBVYFKH/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=BLE8G4D36BEEAK&qid=1586957123&s=electronics&sr=1-2&th=1
		


Total Subtotal  $673.54


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Apr 15, 2020)

AsRock said:


> The parts i am looking at are
> 
> *AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
> CORSAIR VENGEANCELPX16GB (2x 8GB)
> ...


Be sure about the ram bro, I bought four sets of vengeance pro RGB so far the first two sets were samy bdie ,one set still lives, the faster 3600 set died (perhaps not the fault of the part if you get my just) the 3rd and fourth sets I picked sets marked specifically as Ryzen tuned, they are both micron E die, they work out the box fine but are running hotter and slower than bdie such that I have not tweaked timings ( they're not adequately supported in ryzencalc to get timing info).

Just for Info mind, they all worked , I am just passing info I would have liked.

Patriot viper kits have worked very well in the few systems I built for others, cheaper yet overclock and work well.


----------



## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Apr 15, 2020)

AsRock said:


> As i DO NOT shop at Newegg were would the best place be to get this stuff from now ?, as of now it's all on Amazon which are a pain in the ass as their delivery service likes to dump the stuff on the public footpath in the rain to boot.


Go to a local micro center


----------



## EarthDog (Apr 15, 2020)

Check for best prices in...shoot..what is it, pricewatch.com? Where you build it and it has the lowest prices/links?

EDIT: Pcppartpicker.com!!!!!

As far as ram...stick to the mobo compatibility list for 100%.



Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> Go to a local micro center


Sounds silly in today's world...to go outside to a store for computer parts.


----------



## AsRock (Apr 15, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Be sure about the ram bro, I bought four sets of vengeance pro RGB so far the first two sets were samy bdie ,one set still lives, the faster 3600 set died (perhaps not the fault of the part if you get my just) the 3rd and fourth sets I picked sets marked specifically as Ryzen tuned, they are both micron E die, they work out the box fine but are running hotter and slower than bdie such that I have not tweaked timings ( they're not adequately supported in ryzencalc to get timing info).
> 
> Just for Info mind, they all worked , I am just passing info I would have liked.
> 
> ...



Well i was going to link some of those however none of the 3600 kits were listed (.








						ASRock X570 Pro4
					

Supports AMD AM4 Socket Ryzen™ 2000, 3000, 4000 G-Series, 5000 and 5000 G-Series Desktop Processors<br />10 Power Phase Design<br />Supports DDR4 4066+ (OC)<br />2 PCIe 4.0 x16, 2 PCIe 4.0 x1, 1 M.2 (Key E) For WiFi<br />AMD Quad CrossFireX™ and CrossFireX™<br />Graphics Output Options: HDMI...




					www.asrock.com
				






Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> Go to a local micro center



Sadly impossible, it's some 296 miles away.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Apr 15, 2020)

AsRock said:


> Well i was going to link some of those however none of the 3600 kits were listed (.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wouldn't worry too much 3200 is fast enough ,the 3600 kits don't add any FPS value worth mentioning.


----------



## dgianstefani (Apr 15, 2020)

Yeah RAM speed in Ryzen doesn't matter 

Get the 3600 kit. Preferably with 16 or 14 cas.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Apr 15, 2020)

I wouldn't touch Corsair LPX if you're going AMD, it's really hit and miss. Some sticks don't do 1MHz over 2933MHz, regardless of their official rating.
I'd highly recommend these based on my experience with my two kits. I run them at 16-19-16-19-36 at 3800MHz.





						Amazon.com: Viper Steel Series DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 3600MHz Kit: Computers & Accessories
					

Buy Viper Steel Series DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 3600MHz Kit: Computer Accessories & Peripherals - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com
				



The faster modules (4000MHz+) are supposedly B-die, whereas the lower spec ones are Hynix CJR.


----------



## AsRock (Apr 15, 2020)

With that said i am back to these, which the only reason i removed them is due not being on the list, but maybe i can get lucky or just run them slower.





						Amazon.com: Viper Steel Series DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 3600MHz Kit: Electronics
					

Buy Viper Steel Series DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 3600MHz Kit: Computer Accessories & Peripherals - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com
				




EDIT: haha did not see your post, yeah just what  was thinking, thanks


----------



## EarthDog (Apr 15, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> Yeah RAM speed in Ryzen doesn't matter
> 
> Get the 3600 kit. Preferably with 16 or 14 cas.


https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-zen-2-memory-performance-scaling-benchmark


----------



## TheLostSwede (Apr 15, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> Yeah RAM speed in Ryzen doesn't matter
> 
> Get the 3600 kit. Preferably with 16 or 14 cas.


And that comes from someone with an Intel rig...
Ryzen 1k and 2k, it wasn't possible to run RAM at very high speeds, not so any more.
With Ryzen 3k, memory speed matters a lot more, as it's related to the speed of the infinity fabric, which you want to have running as fast as possible. It's also likely to impact the OP more, as he's getting a CPU with two CCDs.



EarthDog said:


> AMD Zen 2 Memory Performance Scaling with Ryzen 9 3900X
> 
> 
> We take a close look at memory scaling on AMD's new Zen 2 Ryzen 3900X, testing both application and gaming performance at seven different memory speed and timing combinations ranging from 2400 MHz all the way up to 4000 MHz.
> ...


Maybe remove the single page part in the URL, or people won't be able to read it...


----------



## EarthDog (Apr 15, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Maybe remove the single page part in the URL, or people won't be able to read it...


Patreon BS (I dont partake not sure how that got in there!!!). 

Ty..done.

Hopefully looking at that and other ryzen ram scaling reviews, we'll see it makes more of a difference than intel, but not much overall. If those differences are worth the price of admission to the OP... nobody will flinch at the choice to go 3600. I would too budget allowing...even if it is negligible in most cases.


----------



## dgianstefani (Apr 15, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> And that comes from someone with an Intel rig...
> Ryzen 1k and 2k, it wasn't possible to run RAM at very high speeds, not so any more.
> With Ryzen 3k, memory speed matters a lot more, as it's related to the speed of the infinity fabric, which you want to have running as fast as possible. It's also likely to impact the OP more, as he's getting a CPU with two CCDs.
> 
> ...


If you can read, you'll see that I have a Ryzen 3900x system. You should also be able to infer sarcasm from my post considering who it was responding to and the choice of emoji.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Apr 15, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Patreon BS (I dont partake not sure how that got in there!!!).
> 
> Ty..done.
> 
> Hopefully looking at that and other ryzen ram scaling reviews, we'll see it makes more of a difference than intel, but not much overall. If those differences are worth the price of admission to the OP... nobody will flinch at the choice to go 3600. I would too budget allowing...even if it is negligible in most cases.


I certainly don't disagree but think it's overhyped , your talking less than 2% in most game's and only as much as 6-7% in a few select cases and a few games, YMMV but depending on costs and support it's upto the buyer obviously how important it is.


----------



## dgianstefani (Apr 15, 2020)

Memory speed past 3200mhz will affect minimum lows. This is because memory speed affects the speed of the ryzen CPU, not GPU. 95% of the time your game will be GPU limited, but in the instances where the CPU is 100% (CPU limited), faster memory will allow much higher framerates. 

Don't try and peddle your tired argument that 3200 is "good enough" for Ryzen, when there are significant gains to be had in the CPU department by using 3600 or 3733.

Anyone with surface level tech knowledge will look at an averages benchmark and say fast memory doesn't matter for FPS.

It matters for minimum lows - and very high refresh rate gaming.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Apr 15, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> Memory speed past 3200mhz will affect minimum lows. This is because memory speed affects the speed of the ryzen CPU, not GPU. 95% of the time your game will be GPU limited, but in the instances where the CPU is 100% (CPU limited), faster memory will allow much higher framerates.
> 
> Don't try and peddle your tired argument that 3200 is "good enough" for Ryzen, when there are significant gains to be had in the CPU department by using 3600 or 3733.
> 
> ...


I have tried all sorts, I never said it made no difference but(3200) it definitely is more than good enough.

The marginal gains are as I said upto the buyer if worth it.
I have used slower ram, friends Do use slower ram and I get zero complaints about ram speed from customers regardless, sooo.

As others posted the definitive Tpu guide on the matter refer to that to see I'm right.

And Asrock will no doubt do as he wishes, I gave experience in this not ideology but it's upto him


----------



## dgianstefani (Apr 15, 2020)

Different people have different standards.

You may be happy with limiting your Ryzen by using slow RAM.

Others prefer to get the CPU performance they paid for.

The difference in cost between decent 3200 and decent 3600 ram is about $20. Let's not pretend we're talking about someone recommending a 2080ti here.


----------



## EarthDog (Apr 15, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> Don't try and peddle your tired argument that 3200 is "good enough" for Ryzen, when there are significant gains to be had in the CPU department by using 3600 or 3733.


Define significant... and provide a link or two, please. 
(actually, your different people have different standards likely explains things already,)

I mean, if you are getting out the overclocking skeelz (or that calculator, lol) and tightening the ship down at those overclocked speeds versus potato 3200 JEDEC (new spec 22-xx-xx), maybe we can get into 'significant' talk? People buy 3200 CL14/16... between that and AMD's defined 'sweetspot' of 3600/3733 in step with FCLK, there isn't much there. But again, if it doesn't take away from a better GPU, or 8->16GB or something else more critical, it surely won't be missed.

Again, if you have a link and more clearly define significant, maybe we can learn something.



dgianstefani said:


> Others prefer to get the CPU performance they paid for.


Actually, what we pay for is the maximum system spec which is 3200 MHz. Anything past 3200 MHz is overclocking the IMC on the CPU and a veritable crapshoot. You pay for the cake (specs)... overclocking is the icing.


----------



## dgianstefani (Apr 15, 2020)

https://hardforum.com/threads/ryzen...s-2133-2400-2933-3200-3733-4000-4200.1984369/ 

Battlefield V - CPU heavy game due to open world physics and destructable environment - 0.1% low goes from 44 to 52fps. that's 15% higher FPS - and would remove the feeling of stuttering from your nice and shiny average of 100+, that drops to 40 because you have "good enough" 3200mhz ram.

Then there's the latency argument - you get about a 15% drop in memory latency going from 3200/16 to 3600/16, from around 10ns to 8.7ns, Ryzen is notorious for having higher latencies across the board due to chiplet design.

Then there's raw memory bandwidth performance, which your average (note no 1% low) gaming benchmark testing doesn't show.  In any IO based operation - faster memory will lead to noticeable gains.

In conclusion - don't show me useless average charts when talking about a component which affects the CPU. Games average FPS is affected by GPU primarily, so a benchmark that doesn't show 1% low won't give you any data on when the benchmark is CPU limited - which is where you'll see the point of having faster RAM that doesn't bottleneck your system.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Apr 15, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> https://hardforum.com/threads/ryzen...s-2133-2400-2933-3200-3733-4000-4200.1984369/
> 
> Battlefield V - CPU heavy game due to open world physics and destructable environment - 0.1% low goes from 44 to 52fps. that's 15% higher FPS - and would remove the feeling of stuttering from your nice and shiny average of 100+, that drops to 40 because you have "good enough" 3200mhz ram.
> 
> ...


did you look at your own graphs?

they portray 3200 as the sweet spot beyond which there not much to gain!, obviously.

battlefield V is an outlier, not the norm and your graph fits what im saying perfectly ,1 game out of 4 , pre selected too, it mattered , a bit.


----------



## AsRock (Apr 15, 2020)

I read some time ago and right then though 3600 ram was as high as i wanted to go, and the prices are not all that big from 3200 to 3600 and would give me some play space like when i got this system going for the 3770k.

Trail and error hopefully less of the error .


----------



## EarthDog (Apr 15, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> https://hardforum.com/threads/ryzen...s-2133-2400-2933-3200-3733-4000-4200.1984369/
> 
> Battlefield V - CPU heavy game due to open world physics and destructable environment - 0.1% low goes from 44 to 52fps. that's 15% higher FPS - and would remove the feeling of stuttering from your nice and shiny average of 100+, that drops to 40 because you have "good enough" 3200mhz ram.


BF V. 0.1% mins. Cool. What do the rest of the tests show?

Latency..... I can FEEEL those nanknowsekonds, yo!

Bandwidth! Let's get a fire hose attached to my garden spicket... makes mad water flooooooooooo!

In conclusion, and on a much more serious note.. I hear what you are saying. Latency does improve, bandwidth is a bit more (waiting for something tangible...), average isn't the big picture (and lows are greatly affected by the GPU, don't be fooled - one is bedrock, the other, overburden... ). But in the end, we see negligible gains most of the time. 

Again, not really saying to not go 3600, but if its over a bump on the GPU, or 8 vs 16GB, or whatever was said, I would put the memory aside.

Surely ASRock has enough to make up his mind.


----------



## dgianstefani (Apr 15, 2020)

It's not a choice between faster ram and the next tier up for GPU. It's a $10-20 dollar difference. Like I said, lets not play games pretending it's not a worthwhile upgrade.

Find any CPU limited benchmark and see memory speed affect your results, it's that simple.

Not seeing a difference in your results? Your application isn't CPU limited.



theoneandonlymrk said:


> did you look at your own graphs?
> 
> they portray 3200 as the sweet spot beyond which there not much to gain!, obviously.
> 
> battlefield V is an outlier, not the norm and your graph fits what im saying perfectly ,1 game out of 4 , pre selected too, it mattered , a bit.


Battlefield V is the only game there that has serious CPU demands, hence why it's the only benchmark there where RAM speed made a big difference.

The tester would have seen another performance jump moving to an 8 core CPU in that game, less so in all the other games he tested, once again, due to BFV being CPU limited in many situations. This ain't rocket science lads.


----------



## EarthDog (Apr 15, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> Find any CPU limited benchmark and see memory speed affect your results, it's that simple.
> 
> Not seeing a difference in your results? Your application isn't CPU limited.


It isn't though. Those are not mutually exclusive. YOu can have CPU limited things with bandwidth and latency not the issue...

but... I digress. THis is getting old.


----------



## AsRock (Apr 15, 2020)

Either way i am going be limited by my 390X haha, but with the 3600 ram i should be able to test out if it's worth while or not still.


----------



## EarthDog (Apr 15, 2020)

Awesome man! Congrats!


----------



## dgianstefani (Apr 15, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> It isn't though. Those are not mutually exclusive. YOu can have CPU limited things with bandwidth and latency not the issue...
> 
> but... I digress. THis is getting old.


So cool how you request evidence for my statements but provide none for yours.

Memory bandwidth and latency are half of the story. 

Infinity fabric being tied to memory speed is the other half.

Memory speed directly affects all aspects of CPU performance with Ryzen CPUs.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Apr 16, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> So cool how you request evidence for my statements but provide none for yours.
> 
> Memory bandwidth and latency are half of the story.
> 
> ...


Old now bro we moved on since you helpfully provided our evidence too.


----------



## John Naylor (Apr 16, 2020)

Just did two builds ....

1.  Same as yours but with MSI MoBo, 3900X and same RAM .... that one is here (youngest son)
2.  Other one had Intel 9900KF, MSI MoBo and same RAM ... one of his friends

By the way, the RAM was chosen cause it was RGB much to my chagrim, not it's perfomance.

Haven't overclocked anything yet.   Wanted to get a good baseline for 30 days before attempting that, not that I had to convince them as they were anxious to play ... may not get 2nd back till after shelter-in-place restrictions lessen.  Initial impressions ...

-In every day tasks they run about the same (office suites, web usage, etc) ... didn't do any real application benchmarking
-Both are general usage builds, no heavy duty apps other than Video and Photo Editing
-Builds had different GFX cards (both nVidias) but used same GFX card for comparisons ... In testing just a few games, I couldn't really tell any difference @ 1440p, 165 HZ.  Based upon TPU results, I expect the Intel system would be 2-4% faster.
-In video / image editing, again TPU has Intel  a 5-10% edge to Intel but in the little time I spent w/ each box ... i couldn't notice any significant performance differences.

Did enable XMP on both boxes but didn't do any CPU or memory overclocking as yet, Graphics cards were OC'd.   Both users seems more interested in RGB than performance which had me grimacing throughout.

Unfortunately, when this issue comes up, people will skew tha data to fit their own preconceived conclusion.  Data that support that conclusion is relevant and data which disproves it is irrelevant.  It's like if you can buy the same SUV with or without air conditioning or with / without 4WD fro the same proce or a small bump is it worth it ?    We saw that with PhysX, we see it with memory speed, we see it with number of cores,  we see it with many things.  

One can argue that, AC is no big deal because you only really need it for 2 months out of the year ... so it doesn't matter.  Well it does matter during those 2 months.   One can argue that, 4WD is no big deal because you only really need it when it snows ... so it doesn't matter.  Well it does matter when you stuck in the snow with no cell service.   If you never play Battlefield, Kingdom Come or any game like them, then no it doesn't matter.  F1 is another game that loves fast memory... the STALKER series was another.  If you play those games on a 144 / 165 Hz monitor and get frustrated by that 1% stuttering, then you're gonna want that faster memory.    If you don't play them or have a 60 Hz monitor, it's not going to help you/

My toolbox / bench has 6 different hammers, and yes I use all of them ... my wife's toolbox has a small ball peen hammer which she uses to hang pictures on the wall.   Who's right ?  Components are tools and each individual should pick the tool that best fits their needs.  Just because my wife will never benefit from having more hammers, that doesn't make me buying 6 of them (rubber mallet, 1H Sledge, 2H Sledge, tack hammer, heavy carpentry and all-purpose) a foolish decision.... also have 3 battery powered drills - light, mdium and heavy duty  (w/ screw attachments) and an air nailer.

If I get around to playing with the LPX , I'll try and come back and post the results


----------



## AsRock (Apr 18, 2020)

Hi, ii cannot get that ram until mid next month and was holding every thing up,  are the higher rated ones as good as these as they are in stock.

For example


			https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07N43CYMS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00?ie=UTF8&th=1
		



			https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KXLKXJB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00?ie=UTF8&th=1
		



Or just say f it and get these 32GB 3200 sticks,  which i know would be useful for our 7days to die gaming me and my wife do. Custom maps are done in physical memory which limits the size of the map your building.


			https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07N3TXFFX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00?ie=UTF8&th=1


----------



## TheLostSwede (Apr 18, 2020)

AsRock said:


> Hi, ii cannot get that ram until mid next month and was holding every thing,  are the higher rated ones as good as these as they are in stock.
> 
> For example
> 
> ...


I think, as I don't know this for sure, that the higher speed ones are using the same chips, simply at higher latencies. This is obviously a guess, but I'm fairly certain they can run at tighter timings. All of the kits have the same base timings.


----------



## AsRock (Apr 18, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> I think, as I don't know this for sure, that the higher speed ones are using the same chips, simply at higher latencies. This is obviously a guess, but I'm fairly certain they can run at tighter timings. All of the kits have the same base timings.



Going get the 3200 2x16 sticks, hopefully all goes well lol.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Apr 18, 2020)

AsRock said:


> Going get the 3200 2x16 sticks, hopefully all goes well lol.



Makes sense in terms of cost if nothing else, as 2x 16GB is a lot cheaper than 4x 8GB.
I have a feeling they might work at 3600MHz, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.


----------



## AsRock (Apr 18, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Makes sense in terms of cost if nothing else, as 2x 16GB is a lot cheaper than 4x 8GB.
> I have a feeling they might work at 3600MHz, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.



Just changed it to the 2x16GB sticks, still got to wait till mid next month haha, apparently when they say they are in stock they mean more on the way.

Anyways time will tell.

Thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Apr 18, 2020)

AsRock said:


> Just changed it to the 2x16GB sticks, still got to wait till mid next month haha, apparently when they say they are in stock they mean more on the way.
> 
> Anyways time will tell.
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts.


Urgh, got to love Amazon at times...
Could also be because it's a non essential item, so it doesn't have any priority?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Apr 18, 2020)

AsRock said:


> Hi, ii cannot get that ram until mid next month and was holding every thing up,  are the higher rated ones as good as these as they are in stock.
> 
> For example
> 
> ...


I've seen no issues personally with patriot viper kits, I've Rma'd two Corsair vengeance and a gigabyte set, they're good for compatibility.
As for 32GB that's a choice for you bro.


----------



## AsRock (Apr 18, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Urgh, got to love Amazon at times...
> Could also be because it's a non essential item, so it doesn't have any priority?



Might be but i bet it be a lot faster if i was paying extra to be a prime member


----------



## AsRock (Apr 28, 2020)

Well got the CPU and ram a few days ago,  dam that chip is heavy haha.  Just waiting on the mobo now (Tomorrow).  Dam i hate Amazon shipping bs, says it's due tomorrow and says it's not shipped yet lmao.

*@TheLostSwede*

I had to split the order up to get them ship them when available.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Apr 28, 2020)

it's heavy because it comes with a large useless cooler. Unless you like hitting over 85C in heavy loads even at low ambients then its the cooler for you. 

To be fair it's till night and day better than what intel gives us which is usually nothing with their cpu worth buying.


----------



## AsRock (May 6, 2020)

oxrufiioxo said:


> it's heavy because it comes with a large useless cooler. Unless you like hitting over 85C in heavy loads even at low ambients then its the cooler for you.
> 
> To be fair it's till night and day better than what intel gives us which is usually nothing with their cpu worth buying.



I wasn't on about the cooler, but the CPU it's self.

Anyways did a little fiddling. was a total pain at 1st until i updated the bios from 2.20 as apparently, i am only running the CPU at 3800MHz right now as i wanted to get rid of the crazy 1.5v on the cores which in turn pushed the idle temps to 53c.  All so wanted to see if ii could at least get this memory to 3200 before messing with any thing else CPU related as voltages are not that clear.


----------



## xman2007 (May 6, 2020)

AsRock said:


> I wasn't on about the cooler, but the CPU it's self.
> 
> Anyways did a little fiddling. was a total pain at 1st until i updated the bios from 2.20 as apparently, i am only running the CPU at 3800MHz right now as i wanted to get rid of the crazy 1.5v on the cores which in turn pushed the idle temps to 53c.  All so wanted to see if ii could at least get this memory to 3200 before messing with any thing else CPU related as voltages are not that clear.


That's a spike and not the true ambient temp but who cares if it spikes up to 50c and back down over and over again while it's constantly boosting as long as it doesn't go over the max temp when it's fully loaded it doesn't make any real difference to your system. You should let pbo and auto boost do its thing and leave it at that imo


----------



## oxrufiioxo (May 6, 2020)

I agree, the only temp with Ryzen 3000 that matters is what it hits under heavy sustained load.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 6, 2020)

AsRock said:


> I wasn't on about the cooler, but the CPU it's self.
> 
> Anyways did a little fiddling. was a total pain at 1st until i updated the bios from 2.20 as apparently, i am only running the CPU at 3800MHz right now as i wanted to get rid of the crazy 1.5v on the cores which in turn pushed the idle temps to 53c.  All so wanted to see if ii could at least get this memory to 3200 before messing with any thing else CPU related as voltages are not that clear.


With Ryzen, it's important to use the latest UEFI/BIOS, as there are a lot of fixes that are needed. Be glad you weren't an early adopter, as the platform took about three months to get stable and another couple of months to be really good. Can't speak for ASRocks implementations though, but keep in mind that the temperature spikes are from sensors inside the cores, so they're quite different to what we're used to, hence the very fast up and downs. It's really nothing to worry about. What you should look at is the motherboard CPU temp, as it's more representative of what we're used to seeing in older platforms.


----------



## AsRock (May 6, 2020)

But what about the CPU voltage ?, or they just spikes too ?. i guess i be better of monitoring the temps and voltages just to make sure they are not staying high for long ?.
Although it's going get hotter here soon so gotta be careful their too.



TheLostSwede said:


> With Ryzen, it's important to use the latest UEFI/BIOS, as there are a lot of fixes that are needed. Be glad you weren't an early adopter, as the platform took about three months to get stable and another couple of months to be really good. Can't speak for ASRocks implementations though, but keep in mind that the temperature spikes are from sensors inside the cores, so they're quite different to what we're used to, hence the very fast up and downs. It's really nothing to worry about. What you should look at is the motherboard CPU temp, as it's more representative of what we're used to seeing in older platforms.



Yeah their is a bunch of needed ones. i didn't once i knew it was stable was due to the fixes they said they had done since 2.20, i guess i should of known better.

2.602020/4/1613.70MBInstant Flash
	
1. Add auto rule for specific memory module.
2. Improve UAD-2 DUO audio card compatibility.​

2.302020/2/1913.70MBInstant Flash
	
Support individual SATA port control in BIOS setup.​


----------



## thesmokingman (May 6, 2020)

AsRock said:


> The parts i am looking at are
> 
> *CORSAIR VENGEANCELPX16GB (2x 8GB) *



All I can add is stay away from Corsair on ram. Really!


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 6, 2020)

AsRock said:


> But what about the CPU voltage ?, or they just spikes too ?. i guess i be better of monitoring the temps and voltages just to make sure they are not staying high for long ?.
> Although it's going get hotter here soon so gotta be careful their too.
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, the Voltages are all over the place with Ryzen 3000. As long as you don't go over 1.5-ish Volts when it peaks, you're fine. There were threads upon threads when the Ryzen 3000-series launched with people freaking out about the high peak Voltages, but AMD has confirmed it's all normal behaviour. Again, the sensors are different from past CPUs and are much more accurate, as such there are a lot more fluctuations than what you might be used to.
You can't even monitor things like before, as it jumps up and down within a few ms, so a lot of the software doesn't respond quickly enough for those kind of fluctuations. 
Download Ryzen Master and you'll see that some of the graphs goes crazy over time. 

They're all stable, nothing to worry about, install the 2.60 release. ASRock seem to have worse release notes than the competition though. I never understood the crappy release from these companies, as if they're trying to hide the fixes they've implemented.


----------



## thesmokingman (May 6, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Yeah, the Voltages are all over the place with Ryzen 3000. As long as you don't go over 1.5-ish Volts when it peaks, you're fine. There were threads upon threads when the Ryzen 3000-series launched with people freaking out about the high peak Voltages, but AMD has confirmed it's all normal behaviour. Again, the sensors are different from past CPUs and are much more accurate, as such there are a lot more fluctuations than what you might be used to.
> You can't even monitor things like before, as it jumps up and down within a few ms, so a lot of the software doesn't respond quickly enough for those kind of fluctuations.
> Download Ryzen Master and you'll see that some of the graphs goes crazy over time.
> 
> They're all stable, nothing to worry about, install the 2.60 release. ASRock seem to have worse release notes than the competition though. I never understood the crappy release from these companies, as if they're trying to hide the fixes they've implemented.



I'd add that the spikes are not random, they are user created for one and two that just by monitoring it you are doing it wrong. Before I continue I'd mention that users should choose to monitor die average cpu temp and not bny default sit and watch individual cores get unparked in context switches. What you describe is the observer effect which was featured on TPU, that makes it doubly ironic. And then there's the difference between discrete cpu clocks which "has" been the default way to read clocks but is not inaccurate, very inaccurate on Zen 2+ which leads us to AMD's effective clock. Add to this even more new and different ways AMD has changed the game with FIT voltage and how low threaded low load voltage is used. Take their use of FIT voltage, effective clock, and user created observer effects and the regular joe user is completely confused. Shit isn't doing what I think it is supposed to, or is it?

Observer effect








						Reports of Ryzen 3000 High Idle Voltage Exaggerated, a Case of the "Observer Effect"
					

With AMD's 3rd generation Ryzen processors finally falling into the hands of PC enthusiasts, many early-adopters are taking to tech communities such as ours, to share their experiences with others. A trend appears to be emerging of users reporting higher-than-usual voltages for these processors...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




Effective clocks





						Effective clock vs instant (discrete) clock
					

It has become a common practice for several years to report instant (discrete) clock values for CPUs. This method is based on knowledge of the actual bus clock (BCLK) and sampling of core ratios at specific time points. The resulting clock is then a simple result of ratio * BCLK. Such approach...




					www.hwinfo.com
				




Not really final final cuz it doesn't get into voltage limits, see link below

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cbls9g

Welcome to FIT voltage








						Strictly technical: Matisse (Not really)
					

07/08/2019 6:33 PM (GMT) - Update on the bios issue on Crosshair VIII Hero motherboard ("the thing").  Earlier today I received a response to my inquiries from ASUS. The response was rather technical and I cannot go into the specifics of what exactly it involved. However, it confirmed my...




					www.overclock.net


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

@thesmokingman I was trying to go for a simple explanation here, as I don't think the OP or most people care about most of what's included in your post. However, I did not say the Voltage spikes were random. Please don't try to put words into my mouth so to speak.

Things are getting very complex with these new CPUs and yes, maybe I should've pointed out that running almost anything that checks the frequency of the CPU makes it and the Voltage jump/spike. However, how many people actually care about this? I think some people are simply too paranoid and worry about things that I'm not sure it's worth worrying about.


----------



## AsRock (May 14, 2020)

Memory seems to be holding up at 3600 ( only 2fps in it anyways ), finally got around in trying it. I will just run them at spec.  Just wanted to let @theoneandonlymrk know how they are running.

According to Thaiphoon Burner the chips are CJR


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 14, 2020)

AsRock said:


> Memory seems to be holding up at 3600 ( only 2fps in it anyways ), finally got around in trying it. I will just run them at spec.  Just wanted to let @theoneandonlymrk know how they are running.
> 
> According to Thaiphoon Burner the chips are CJR


See how it goes it's worth running some memory Tests though and if possible monitor your memory temperature for a bit.
Looking good the gain's beyond that are minimal.


----------



## tabascosauz (May 14, 2020)

AsRock said:


> Memory seems to be holding up at 3600 ( only 2fps in it anyways ), finally got around in trying it. I will just run them at spec.  Just wanted to let @theoneandonlymrk know how they are running.
> 
> According to Thaiphoon Burner the chips are CJR



Is this 4.2GHz all-core 1.22V just something you've cobbled together for benchmarking, or is it something you run daily?

If the latter is the case, no amount of fast RAM will help the fact you're losing a chunk of single- and lightly-threaded boost. I've not seen a single 3900X that doesn't boost up to at least 4.4GHz on light loads when it's allowed to do its thing.

It's common to come to Ryzen 3000 from something more traditional and go straight to all-core OC either in pursuit of multithreaded e-peen or out of fear from seeing the misleading 1.5V idle, but these chips are far smarter regarding performance, thermals and voltage than they make visible to us. If you want to reap the performance benefits in gaming, you need to let it boost. 

Despite the rocky road in the first few months regarding Windows' scheduler and the fact that my 3700X has the absolute worst distribution of best cores you can get (core 0-1-2 are the worst, core 5 and 7 are the best), all my games load the correct cores and boost up close to 4.4GHz on them.

Yes, as part of its design, all-core frequencies will fall to 4.0-4.1GHz without PBO, but I have yet to come across *any *game that applies all-core 100% load.


----------



## AsRock (May 14, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> See how it goes it's worth running some memory Tests though and if possible monitor your memory temperature for a bit.
> Looking good the gain's beyond that are minimal.



TPU's memtest been running for the last 30 or so minutes without issue.

BTW did not change the default timing, just left them as they were with 3200 settings.










tabascosauz said:


> Is this 4.2GHz all-core 1.22V just something you've cobbled together for benchmarking, or is it something you run daily?
> 
> If the latter is the case, no amount of fast RAM will help the fact you're losing a chunk of single- and lightly-threaded boost. I've not seen a single 3900X that doesn't boost up to at least 4.4GHz on light loads when it's allowed to do its thing.
> 
> ...



I am just fiddling, i know my CPU temps are really good at 4200,  and wanted to see what the ram could do as i know the VRM's are far from the best on this mobo too.

Yeah i have noticed the misleading voltages but you can tell they are not true due to the temps as if you force say 1.3-1.4v the temps will be much higher.  Like now i have them set to 1.27( stable for 4.2) and it's idling at 32c which were it is on auto too.

Well the more cores i guess the harder it be to get the best cpu.


----------



## AsRock (May 18, 2020)

Planning another part, a new CPU cooler and was interested in getting the Corsair A500 until i noticed all the bad reviews due to the plate and the assassin III i was interested in to but they seem to be hard to get right now at a good price.

So i need to do a little more research on how much space i have but been thinking of getting the  NH-D15.

This is due to the temps going up due to summer and it's effecting my GPU temps to much using the stock cooler, i am hoping i can get a fan or 2 fit at the top of the case too which should help the 120mm + 92mm rear fans.


----------

