# No budget multimedia/gaming rig build.



## Viceroy (Sep 27, 2009)

This build's ultimate purpose is to be used for mainly for gaming and multimedia downloading/burning/ripping/playback. I have stated that this build has no budget restrictions. This is true, however that is not to say that I am willing to spend excess amounts of money for hugely diminished returns on bleeding-edge merchandise. I am satisfied with the product that is currently at a great value but is not underpowered. For instance, my GPU of choice is the Radeon 5850. It is less powerful than the 5870, but also much less expensive. It is also slightly more expensive than a 4890, or 2x4870 CF'd, but also a much more solid and versatile performer. The perfect balance of power-pricing for me is the Radeon 5850.

*---Potential purchases---*

*RAM* - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666)
$97 taxed/shipped
Low latency and low voltage make up for its low speed, which can be easily overclocked. I will consider purchasing a second set if 4gb seems insufficient.

*GPU* - Sapphire ATI Radeon HD5850
$265 taxed/shipped

*ODD* - HP Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM SATA 24X Multiformat DVD Writer
$35 taxed/shipped
This one does everything but Blu-ray. If you can find me a better one or a cheaper one, chime in.

*$397 total*

*---Recently completed purchases---*

****New**** *Case* - XCLIO Windtunnel Fully Black Finish 1.0 mm SECC Chassis ATX Full Tower Computer Case
$98 taxed/shipped 

*PSU* - ENERMAX ERV1050EWT Revolution85+ 1050W SLI/CrossFire Active PFC Modular 85 Plus Silver Certified Power Supply
$150 taxed/shipped 

*HDD* - Western Digital 1 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 32 MB Cache
$75 taxed/shipped

*CPU* - Intel Core i7 Processor i7-860 2.80GHz 8MB LGA1156 + *Mobo* - GIGABYTE GA-P55M-UD2 Socket 1156/ Intel P55/ DDR3/ CrossFireX/ A&GbE 
$335 taxed/shipped 

*VDU* - Dell UltraSharp U2410 24 inch 1920x1200 6ms 1000:1 HDMI/DVI/VGA/DisplayPort Widescreen LCD Monitor
$524 taxed/shipped 
Really phat screen with badass features and picture. Demands high-power GPU so I can take advantage of its awesomeness.

*Audio A* - Altec Lansing BXR1121
$20.00 taxed/shipped
If you haven't heard these before then you are missing out. For the quality of sound I can't believe they only retail for about 25 dollars. 

*Moose* - Razer Salmosa 
$27.00 taxed/shipped 

*$1229 total*

****New**** *---Optional purchases---*

****New**** *Mouse* - My current mouse, the Razer Salmosa, is somewhat unsatisfactory to me. I bought it on the prerequisite that it would be ideal for fingertip gripping, when in fact the dynamics of the mouse seem more befitting a claw grip or even a palm, and this is just not what I wanted at all. If held with fingertips, the Salmosa buttons are too difficult to depress (due to being nearer to the butt end), the chassis shows marks very easily, and the mouse itself is just much too long to be effectively maneuvered like a fingertip mouse should be. 

If you have any suggestions for mice that you think I would like, please let me know.

****New**** *Keys* - Logitech G11 Gaming Keyboard
$50 taxed/shipped
Keyboard needs to have backlighting, or whatever it is called where a light comes on beneath the keys so they can be seen easier in a dark room. The keys must have space between them and must have noticeable depression (so no laptop keys). It absolutely must NOT have all the noobish bling like a dumb little LCD screen or 50 programmable buttons I'll never use. If you have any suggestions for boards you think I would like, or if you think the G11 is perfect for me, let me know.

****New**** *HDD* - I already have a 1tb drive listed in my completed purchases, but I am considering several options that would involve different/additional HDDs. 

One would be purchasing a 10k RPM drive, particularly the Western Digital VelociRaptor WD3000HLFS 300GB 10000 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive. Newegg is running a combo deal right now where they are throwing in a power supply along with the VR, and giving you 2 bucks just to take it off their hands. I have no use for that PSU on my machine, so I figure I could sell it on Ebay for about $70, thus bringing the practical price of a 300 GB WD VR down to $150. Another option would be to take identical drives and run them in RAID, but this would practically necessitate that I sell my current drive and buy faster ones (I am going for speed here, after all). Yet another option would be the one included in the following quote:


> Another option is to buy a 32MB cache 1.0 or 1.5 TB drive ( $90 to $140 typically , Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 series in particular here ) and "short-stroke it" to only 300 ( or 700 ) GB, using the fastest part of the platters only ( restrict cylinders to only allow access to outer cylinders/tracks of the platters, so that the drive is forced to only r/w to the fastest parts of the platters ( the middle to outside of the platters, larger circumference of platter = higher data throughput there ), making inner portion of the platters inaccessible. Once you do this, the performance is on par with VelociRaptor ( even slightly better in certain benchmarks ) for about half the price of the VelociRaptor.


All of the options look tempting and viable to me. I thank you for any insight you can offer me in this matter.

********

That's it for the potential purchases for now. Please give me any opinions you have-no change is too small. I've spent a lot of time on this build because I want it to be as perfect as it can be, so please spare no detail. I am all-ears.

Thanks a bunch 

~Viceroy Trepanation


----------



## Viceroy (Sep 28, 2009)

I just gave the OP an update. I'll be back to respond tomorrow evening.


----------



## Viceroy (Sep 28, 2009)

I just gave the OP an update. I'll be back to respond tomorrow evening.


----------



## Wile E (Sep 28, 2009)

If you do a lot of video encoding/ripping/trancoding, the 920 is worth the extra few dollars. It would be 15-20% faster in most of those tasks, but I don't believe it will be 20% more expensive. It has hyperthreading, whereas the 750 does not. Not to mention, X58 is just the all-around better platform. Ram would also have to change to a triple channel kit. If encoding performance isn't important to you, your setup still looks good, but take it from someone who encodes a lot, the faster stuff is worth it in the long run if encoding is a priority.


----------



## Viceroy (Sep 29, 2009)

> the 920 is worth the extra few dollars



HT is so overhyped it can be called a conspiracy at this point. 4 cores is already overkill, and getting even MORE at the cost of performance in every other area is just a dumb decision to make. 

x58 may be a better platform, but it would necessitate a CPU other than the i5 750, and quite frankly I just do not see that as a viable option at all.


----------



## RejZoR (Sep 29, 2009)

HT was useless back in Pentium D days because rarely any program used 2 CPU's or 2 cores.
Only that i remember was some MPEG2 encoder and Quake 3 Arena. But today, pretty much ALL programs support more cores. Same goes for games. And thats why HT shines almost everywhere. Yes, even in games, there are gains from HT.


----------



## AhokZYashA (Sep 29, 2009)

about the Altec BXR1121..
the sound quality is just crap..
Altec VS4121 is MUCH MUCH MUCH better in terms of sound quality..
if you don't have budget restrictions..
then Bose Companion 5 is the best option for 2.1ch Speaker..
or Logitech Z5500 5.1ch speaker

about the other stuff..
is very nice if just for multimedia encoding/burning/ripping.


----------



## MoonPig (Sep 29, 2009)

If it's no budget and you plan on using it to download (I'm guessing this would be overnight) i would get a 5850 or 5870. Their damn powerful and their idle power consumption is amazing.

Also, go i7 + X58. Much better.


----------



## Tatty_One (Sep 29, 2009)

Viceroy said:


> HT is so overhyped it can be called a conspiracy at this point. 4 cores is already overkill, and getting even MORE at the cost of performance in every other area is just a dumb decision to make.
> 
> x58 may be a better platform, but it would necessitate a CPU other than the i5 750, and quite frankly I just do not see that as a viable option at all.



Less so these days, simply take a look at the ripping or encoding performance tests say for a movie, compare 4 to 8 threads and then realise how much time is lost with the 4.

Having said that, thats a nice setup you have planned, I would perhaps lean towards the HD4890 than the 4870, they are just more capable cards for little extra in price, although the GTX260 should also be considered IMO if the price is right.


----------



## Viceroy (Sep 29, 2009)

> about the Altec BXR1121..
> the sound quality is just crap..



No, it is at least 65% as good as the 250 dollar z5500's. You just assume more expensive things are always better because you are inexperienced.


> Also, go i7 + X58. Much better.



No. the i7 920 is obsolete.


----------



## RejZoR (Sep 29, 2009)

And why is i7 920 obsolete? It's a kick ass quad core.


----------



## troyrae360 (Sep 29, 2009)

Viceroy said:


> No, it is at least 65% as good as the 250 dollar z5500's. You just assume more expensive things are always better because you are inexperienced.
> 
> 
> No. the i7 920 is obsolete.



if somthing is 65% as good that means the other is 35% Better, thats a massive improvment IMO

Dont forget this guy is filthy rich and has no budget restrictions 

i7 920 Obsolote? What are your your specs then?


----------



## WarEagleAU (Sep 29, 2009)

I know this is odd but I would have went with the 1366 build if you are going Intel. Sometime next year, they will be moving to hexcores (I think I Read that right) and the upgrade path is there. With the 1156 you will not be able to go that route but Im not sure if you want to. Personally a 920 is a more preferred choice (seeing as you wont do AMD). Graphics card is fine but high unless that is for 2. Id go a 4890 or 5850. Case, not bad, but the Corsair 800D is awesome. PSU, nice selection but one of OCZ Gold series would have been awesome.


----------



## Yukikaze (Sep 29, 2009)

Viceroy said:


> No, it is at least 65% as good as the 250 dollar z5500's. *You just assume more expensive things are always better because you are inexperienced.*
> 
> No. the i7 920 is obsolete.





You just assume that if something is newer it is better - because you are inexperienced.


----------



## MT Alex (Sep 30, 2009)

I'm not sure what kind of help this guy wants.  He obviously has his own opinions, and they are abrupt and strong.


----------



## Yukikaze (Sep 30, 2009)

MT Alex said:


> I'm not sure what kind of help this guy wants.  He obviously has his own opinions, and they are abrupt and strong.



The kind of help that tells him that he is right, I suspect.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Sep 30, 2009)

Yukikaze said:


> The kind of help that tells him that he is right, I suspect.



in that case...
OP your right on everything. You have picked the parts to build the perfect rig NOTHING can top it and no way can it be improved.. I don't deserve to even be in your thread your so great... 

If you didn't notice i hate assholes like him who think they know everything


----------



## 3volvedcombat (Sep 30, 2009)

Someone Tell him the facts. 
i7 920, is tripple channel interface/ win right there.
i7 920 has hyper threading, benchmarks on many many programs go check them out it rapes.
i7 920 over clocks so dam well if you get a good stepping it luls.
the cons, are that the motherboards for 1366 arnt supporting sata 3 and nothing is sata 3 yet either. 
the i7 920 is rape in conclusion, its just faster more threaded proc, that utilizes really high speed ddr3 ram at 4.0Ghz at low voltage with triple channel bandwidth allowing for more memory in the slots? thats faster then a slightly faster renamed q9550. 
The gaming computer isnt going to cut it stock thats why i said 4.0Ghz, if you want unbeatable by standards grab a at least a xiggy s1283 or better in air cooling, or go water for 150+ dollars and overclock the i7, so easy on even auto settings so far ive been hearing on gigabyte boards

HD 4870 is good but were the hell is it coming from at 289.99 lmao!!1

Maybe your in diffrent states i couldnt notice on your status under your name.

but you can grab a HD 4870 on newegg from XFX for 147.99 dollars 
you can get a HD 4890 for 180 dollars, 
an HD 4850x2 for 220 dollars
and HD 4870x2 for 340 dollars
all on newegg 

WOOPS I FAILED :/
EDIT: your getting 2 HD 4870s great, there fast i got 120 fps on grid lmao 

Its alright i dont mind this dude, are challenge is to convince prove it .


----------



## Rapidfire48 (Sep 30, 2009)

MT Alex said:


> I'm not sure what kind of help this guy wants.  He obviously has his own opinions, and they are abrupt and strong.



You read my mind.


----------



## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Sep 30, 2009)

Whats the point of this thread?


----------



## FreedomEclipse (Sep 30, 2009)

Viceroy is just reposting the same topic again after everyone pretty much ran off & ignored him in his last thread.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=103917


----------



## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Sep 30, 2009)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Viceroy is just reposting the same topic again after everyone pretty much ran off & ignored him in his last thread.
> 
> http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=103917



Then close one.


----------



## Wile E (Sep 30, 2009)

Viceroy said:


> HT is so overhyped it can be called a conspiracy at this point. 4 cores is already overkill, and getting even MORE at the cost of performance in every other area is just a dumb decision to make.
> 
> x58 may be a better platform, but it would necessitate a CPU other than the i5 750, and quite frankly I just do not see that as a viable option at all.



Except that in encoding, your are 100% WRONG about Hyperthreading. It is, in FACT, 15-20% faster at encoding with hyperthreading enabled vs disabled. Encoding uses all available cores. You get the same benefits from all other fully multi-threaded apps as well.

In the process of making those gains, you lose no performance anywhere else.

So lets recap- it shows significant 15-20% gains in all multithreaded apps, including encoding, yet takes no performance hit anywhere else.

Sounds like a small price hike for a good benefit to me. 



Viceroy said:


> No, it is at least 65% as good as the 250 dollar z5500's. You just assume more expensive things are always better because you are inexperienced.


His statement has nothing to do with experience. Those speakers he chose are all better. If you are not an audiophile, the speakers you chose are likely fine for you. If you are an audiophile, they are junk, plain and simple. Audiophiles will spend more money to get the slightest of quality gains. It's worth every single penny for us.

Most audiophiles don't go for the 5500's either tho. Although I do challenge you to find a surround setup with decoder that sounds as good for $250. 

Don't go assuming that just because somebody is willing to spend more money on speakers it has to do with experience. It has more to do with taste in sound, of which you are apparently indifferent, judging by your selection of sound components. Kudos to you for that tho, it's a hell of a lot cheaper. Just my headphones cost more than your entire audio setup. lol. 


Viceroy said:


> No. the i7 920 is obsolete.


It's nowhere near obsolete. in fact, the 750 is already more obsolete than the 920 you have chosen look past. The 920 is the better cpu, period. It's on a vastly superior platform with more upgrade potential, is faster than the 750 in many tasks, yet is never slower than the 750.

So tell me, how is the 920 obsolete, or the 750 better, especially if the 920 is within the budget constraints?

Seems to me you need to do a little more research.

What really confuses me about you is, you claim that people are inexperienced for paying so much extra for small improvements in sound or cpu performance, yet you spring the big bucks on an S-IPS screen. So many people are perfectly happy paying 1/3 that price on a 24" Tn-Film that looks 65% as good, yet you don't hear them calling you inexperienced for buying that kick-ass panel. Try to apply the same logic used on your screen to the sound and cpu, and you'll better understand the reasoning behind our suggestions.


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 2, 2009)

I thank you for all of your input. I just gave the OP an update, so check up on it my ninjas.


----------



## Wile E (Oct 2, 2009)

Why would you get an 860 when you could get a 920 and X58?

Meh, whatever, I give up. Either way, hope you enjoy the build.


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 2, 2009)

Because it is much more expensive and not much more useful.


----------



## Wile E (Oct 2, 2009)

Viceroy said:


> Because it is much more expensive and not much more useful.



How is it more expensive? The cpu is about the same price, and you can get X58 boards for around the same price as the P55 you picked out. X58 is still the more versatile platform, and so far the only Intel consumer platform that is scheduled to receive 6 core cpus.

So I guess it's worth depends on your intentions. Do you plan to upgrade incrementally, or are you gonna keep a hold of this build until it's obsolete without changing the base components at all over the course of it's life?


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 2, 2009)

Oh god dammit why do I have to keep going in circles with my CPU choice >:|


----------



## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Oct 2, 2009)

Viceroy said:


> Oh god dammit why do I have to keep going in circles with my CPU choice >:|



Dont. Easy solution. Stop posting and by whatever the hell you want since you dont want the communities opinion about whats better for price/performance. Your obviously gonna choose whatever you want anyway. Just stop wasting the space.


----------



## Wile E (Oct 2, 2009)

Viceroy said:


> Oh god dammit why do I have to keep going in circles with my CPU choice >:|




You don't. I'm just trying to keep you from making a mistake you may regret down the road. So meh, whatever, it's your money, waste it however you see fit. I'm just trying to make sure you aren't basing your decision on wrong ideas or reasons. You asked for our opinions, and I am giving mine.

The only other thing I see that I would change, is the Sony burner. But that's only because I've had really poor luck with them. I have had good luck with Pioneer and LG tho.


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 2, 2009)

> Dont. Easy solution. Stop posting and by whatever the hell you want since you dont want the communities opinion about whats better for price/performance. Your obviously gonna choose whatever you want anyway. Just stop wasting the space.



This *entire build* is based on other people's opinions I've gathered for *over a month.* I've gotten hundreds of comments and opinions from dozens of sites, read I-don't-even-know-how-many articles for every conceivable piece of equipment I could buy, read guides and reviews and benchmarks all across the internet, even asked some of my friends and family for advice on this build, and you dare to tell me that I've not done my research because I reject the advice of a single misguided user?

Grow up.



> I'm just trying to make sure you aren't basing your decision on wrong ideas or reasons. You asked for our opinions, and I am giving mine.



http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i5,2410.html

According to this review the 870 outclasses the 920 with the 750 falling somewhere in-between or close behind. To me this demonstrates that there is no reason to get a system built around a 920 unless I was looking to upgrade to Gulftowns in the near future, which I am not. x58 1366 is a more expensive platform and the only conceivable benefit I can derive is a faster second PCI-e interface, which only matters when going CF/SLI, which I do not plan on doing anytime soon, and even if I do later, the framerate difference between x8x8 and x16x16 is like 3%, and who cares about a 3% drop from 60 FPS, as long as it's smooth?

You can give me your "opinions" all day, and I guess I'm thankful for them, but the hard facts I've seen time and time again demonstrate that the i7 920 is just not the processor for me. 



> The only other thing I see that I would change, is the Sony burner. But that's only because I've had really poor luck with them.



Well it looks like a GREAT burner to me. It does everything at the same speed as my last burner did, for 15 dollars less. 24x write speed for 37 dollars? Yes, please.


----------



## FreedomEclipse (Oct 2, 2009)

Nice way to show your appreciation,

first of all you come into our forums & ask for advice - thats totally fine, BUT when someone voices their opinion which goes against yours (pretty much every TPU members thats kindly taken time to post here & help you out) you've thrown it right back at them.

YET your still looking for confirmation from others because OMG!!! youve wasted a month on re-search, then you throw up a link from tomshardware - who as every one knows & will tell you dont know what their doing half the time when it comes to reviews.

Either listen up or GTFO & stop belittling the users who are trying to help you.


that is all.


----------



## Yukikaze (Oct 2, 2009)

Wile E said:


> The only other thing I see that I would change, is the Sony burner. But that's only because I've had really poor luck with them. I have had good luck with Pioneer and LG tho.



Agreed. Sony/NEC Optiarcs are shunned over here due to being crappy.

OP: You think the i7 860 + P55 is the better choice, go for it. It seems just about everyone here thinks the X58 is the better platform (I agree, and the lack of PCI-E lanes on the P55/LGA1156 platform is my reason, not just for CF/SLI reasons), but it isn't like the P55 won't do what you want from it.

Still, you ask for advice, then show zero gratitude (and about zero respect) for the opinions given - Don't expect much more help than what I just typed up above.


----------



## n-ster (Oct 3, 2009)

too much tension for nothing here... At the price your paying the stuff, i7 is like the almost the same price, yet better... do what you wish...


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 4, 2009)

I just finished giving the OP a revision. The possibility of an i5 CPU was scrapped, and due to popular user demand, I have allowed a return of the possibility of an i7 920/x58/tri-channel core system build possibility, albeit against my better judgement. Please see the points marked ****New**** for greater detail.

Thank you all very much for your help.


----------



## Wile E (Oct 5, 2009)

Viceroy said:


> This *entire build* is based on other people's opinions I've gathered for *over a month.* I've gotten hundreds of comments and opinions from dozens of sites, read I-don't-even-know-how-many articles for every conceivable piece of equipment I could buy, read guides and reviews and benchmarks all across the internet, even asked some of my friends and family for advice on this build, and you dare to tell me that I've not done my research because I reject the advice of a single misguided user?
> 
> Grow up.
> 
> ...


Except that you are comparing it to the 870, which is much more expensive than the 920. WAYYYYYYYY more expensive. They are $579 on newegg. It better damn well beat the 920. The 920 build, even with the more expensive X58 board is still way cheaper than an 870 build.

But whatever, after reading your revised OP, and since you are essentially counting out upgradeability with your "IRRELEVANT" tags, I don't feel the need to carry on. It's clear you want to save $40-50 now, to sacrifice your overall upgrade path later. More power to you, and good luck with the build. It should prove fast no matter what you choose.


----------



## <<Onafets>> (Oct 5, 2009)

If you're getting RAM for an i7 920 then you have to do it right. Go grab a 3x2GB kit of Corsair Dominator GT's! Get an EVGA X58 mobo too, you'll thank me later.


----------



## n-ster (Oct 5, 2009)

Spending over 120$ would be a shame for tri-channel RAM if your looking price/performance...http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148246 These can easily go to 1600 cl7-8... GODLY RAM!

Best price/performance board IMO is http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10010410&prodlist=jellyfish

you should really not pressure in by some people saying whats best for you.... you've gotta UNDERSTAND why it is.... maybe harder and longer, but more rewarding and a much better user experience


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 6, 2009)

I have been considering replacing my current motherboard selection with the EVGA P55 SLI 132-LF-E655-KR LGA1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard. It is $184 taxed/shipped, which is only 20 dollars more than my current mobo. This one looks to be of higher quality and more feature-rich, though my perspective on motherboards is somewhat limited and I ask for your insight.

Also, I found an Intel X25-M Mainstream SSDSA2MH080G2C1 2.5" 80GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid state disk for $220 taxed/shipped, and at that price I am highly considering implementing it into my overall build. What are your thoughts?


----------



## freaksavior (Oct 6, 2009)

i7 920
6gb Crucial DDR3 ram (usually oc really well)
5850(or two)
OCZ vertext 60gb ssd
2 x 1tb 7200.12 seagates
Gigabyte UD5 - Good board, but lacks good layout if tri cards is in plan
Foxconn Blood Rage - Good overclocker
Biostar Tpowerx58 - Biostar has gotten really good
DFI LP UT X58 - Fantastic board, lots of options


----------



## n-ster (Oct 7, 2009)

OCZ vertex turbo is a great SSD... The UD3R is almost the same as the ud5 for you... The 6gb Crucial Ram freak is talking about is the one I linked, 5850/70 are great choices and best performance/watt for that power IMO... and the i7 920 D0 IMO should be an obvious choice for your case!

"I think the only logical choice here is to pick from either the 5870, or the 5850. The 5850 is my prime choice for now, due to the huge price advantage and the fact that all the extra power of the 5870 is entirely unnecessary at my chosen resolution" umm... it will still do a pretty good difference


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 7, 2009)

Because once you pass around 35-40 fps, it makes little-no difference. Going from 250 fps to 280 fps is just splitting hairs.


----------



## n-ster (Oct 7, 2009)

Meh, to each and his own I guess... I feel safer near 50... but just to tell you, you want to be able to play games later too... which require more GPU power...


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 7, 2009)

Thanks, but I'm not interested in being cutting edge all the time. There's millions of games out there, 99.9% of which would be fine with the 5850.


----------



## n-ster (Oct 7, 2009)

again, for now... but if 5850 fit your needs for the time being AND for a reasonable amount of time later, then go for it! You could Xfire it later if you need more power


----------



## freaksavior (Oct 7, 2009)

Viceroy said:


> Thanks, but I'm not interested in being cutting edge all the time. There's millions of games out there, 99.9% of which would be fine with the 5850.



You do realize you completely contradicting yourself here. You say no budget but not excessive so we give you options you say no. :shadedshu


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 7, 2009)

Because I don't like your options. Why so butthurt?


----------



## n-ster (Oct 7, 2009)

Or SUGGESTIONS are usually for the best.. but 5850 will do just fine, though 5870 will be better for you in the long run. i7 920 will do you good present and long run for sure...

Don't get mad, all we want to do help  else we wouldnt be posting here would we? We are just trying to help you make a right choice


----------



## DarkEgo (Oct 7, 2009)

n-ster said:


> Spending over 120$ would be a shame for tri-channel RAM if your looking price/performance...http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148246 These can easily go to 1600 *cl6*... GODLY RAM!
> /QUOTE]
> Fixed.


----------



## n-ster (Oct 7, 2009)

lol... I meant VERY easily to 1600 cl7  some even take these babies to 2100 cl8 and stuff... After 1600 cl7 though, the benefits aren't seen much


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 13, 2009)

I just purchased my CPU and motherboard, changed my ODD of choice, and updated the OP accordingly. I decided to commit to the i7 860 and subsequent compatible motherboard/RAM, so the rest of this build should fall into place pretty easily. 

Final purchases are planned to be made in the next few days if possible.


----------



## Wile E (Oct 14, 2009)

Viceroy said:


> I just purchased my CPU and motherboard, changed my ODD of choice, and updated the OP accordingly. I decided to commit to the i7 860 and subsequent compatible motherboard/RAM, so the rest of this build should fall into place pretty easily.
> 
> Final purchases are planned to be made in the next few days if possible.



That Plextor *IS* the sony burner. It just has a Plextor firmware. Might as well stick with the Sony. Plextor doesn't make their own drives anymore. They just rebrand, and tack a hell of a premium on.


----------



## troyrae360 (Oct 14, 2009)

Viceroy said:


> I just purchased my CPU and motherboard, changed my ODD of choice, and updated the OP accordingly. I decided to commit to the i7 860 and subsequent compatible motherboard/RAM, so the rest of this build should fall into place pretty easily.
> 
> Final purchases are planned to be made in the next few days if possible.



You so should have gone with the 920!!


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 14, 2009)

Gah. It has a 91% 5-score on the Egg, and it does everything I want it to do. What could possibly go wrong?

If you have a drive that you think would be better please point me to it. Price is not an object especially for parts as cheap as 30-50 dollars.


----------



## n-ster (Oct 14, 2009)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827140042

seems nice AND cheap! 

I see you went against our suggestion... oh well, you will be happy with your purchase anyways  Though much later you might regret not going lga 1366 

Hope you the best!


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 14, 2009)

Thanks, N-ster. I'll be throwing your suggested drive in the OP.


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 14, 2009)

One of my biggest questions is if everything will fit into my case of choice, especially with the rather large video card I will be using. Does anyone know for certain?


----------



## n-ster (Oct 14, 2009)

Try to ger RAM with normal heatspreaders and a cpu cooler that`s not too big... thoses are usually the things that make stuff not fit... I don`t think GPU should be a problem...


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 15, 2009)

Does the RAM I have use "normal" heatspreaders?


----------



## n-ster (Oct 15, 2009)

It`s not much higher so you should be fine


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 18, 2009)

Gave a little update to the OP. I exchanged my PSU for a nicer one, nabbed a Caviar Green instead of a Spinpoint since Amazon was running a special, changed my ODD again and got rid of the peripheral purchases I made since the people I bought it from never sent the items. I did get my money back, though.

Let me know what you think.


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 18, 2009)

Quick update: I made a mistake by buying the Caviar Green. I was cripplingly sick that day and was not thinking clearly and ended up making a dumb decision. I'll be trying to RMA this one or sell it and go back to my previous idea of a Spinpoint F3. The OP will be changed to reflect this.

Totally kicking myself for doing that btw.


----------



## Wile E (Oct 18, 2009)

Viceroy said:


> Gave a little update to the OP. I exchanged my PSU for a nicer one, nabbed a Caviar Green instead of a Spinpoint since Amazon was running a special, changed my ODD again and got rid of the peripheral purchases I made since the people I bought it from never sent the items. I did get my money back, though.
> 
> Let me know what you think.



Great choice on the PSU. The best 1000w on the market right now.

And if I couldn't rma, I would probably just throw the Green into an external enclosure, and use it for back ups.


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 18, 2009)

I'm sure I could sell at a good price on Ebay. That's what I'm planning on doing with my PSU and am even predicting that I'll make a profit after the MIR.


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 20, 2009)

I've had my eye on the XCLIO Windtunnel Full Tower Case for a while now and it just went on discount. I'm looking at $125 taxed and shipped, 40 bucks more than my OP case. Considering that it should completely eliminate any question of whether or not everything will fit in the case, and the fact that it looks kick-ass, that 40 extra dollars can blow me. Should I switch cases?

Also, the http://www.newegg.com/Product/Combo...000 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive dropped down to $230, and comes with a free PSU, which I could sell to some sap on Ebay for 70 bucks or so. I'm thinking shoo-in. You?


----------



## BumbleBee (Oct 20, 2009)

is there a reason you went with the Razer Salmosa?


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 20, 2009)

I had actually bought a G9 and a Lachesis just prior, but I never got my shipment so I went through some crap with the people I bought it from and got my moneyz back. 

As for the Salmosa, it was supposed to be designed for fingertip gripping, which is the only comfortable grip style for me. I find it is much too big and the buttons requiring too much depression near the butt end for it to be designated a fingertip grip mouse.


----------



## BumbleBee (Oct 21, 2009)

the Razer Salmosa uses the same sensor in the Razer Boomslang and Death Adder which is actually really good if I wanted speed I would take it over the Lachesis and G9 but the build quality isn't very good. if you need a surface the SteelSeries SP surface works best with the 3G Infared Sensor. the sloped buttons on the Salmosa is a Razer trait in all their mice. I prefer oval or flat my self.


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 21, 2009)

I like a much less lengthy mouse than the Salmosa. Something really small with buttons easy to press.


----------



## BumbleBee (Oct 21, 2009)

ok I think I see the problem you don't like how long the buttons are?


----------



## GREASEMONKEY (Oct 21, 2009)

I had no idea u2K had a brother.


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 21, 2009)

Well, the buttons can be as long as they damn wanna be, as long as the whole body of the mouse is shorter. And not so hard to click.


----------



## BumbleBee (Oct 21, 2009)

I think the problem is the buttons are too long on the mouse there isn't much room to palm it. Salmosa is a pretty small mouse. 






the SteelSeries Xai comes out October 30th it uses the ADNS-9500 Sensor which is in the Logitech G9x and G500 except some *major* differences.



> * Frames per second: 12.000
> * Inches per second: 150+
> * Megapixels per second: 10.8
> * Counts per inch: 100 - 5.001 (*one CPI Steps*)
> ...



I really like the look of it, it's shaped almost like a old ball mouse, black, silt texture, tactile scroll wheel, braided cable, no lights and like the Death Adder they made the buttons apart of the housing instead of two separate pieces.

if it isn't plagued by tracking problems at launch there is a good possibility this will be the mouse to beat.

it's going to be expensive at least $89 USD.

G9x is a good substitute.


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 21, 2009)

I updated the OP. Added my case purchase and included some info on which I would like your judgements.

Just a lil more to go...


----------



## BumbleBee (Oct 21, 2009)

Viceroy said:


> ****New**** *Keys* - Logitech G11 Gaming Keyboard
> $50 taxed/shipped
> Keyboard needs to have backlighting, or whatever it is called where a light comes on beneath the keys so they can be seen easier in a dark room. The keys must have space between them and must have noticeable depression (so no laptop keys). It absolutely must NOT have all the noobish bling like a dumb little LCD screen or 50 programmable buttons I'll never use. If you have any suggestions for boards you think I would like, or if you think the G11 is perfect for me, let me know.



I recommend a mechanical keyboard there is a lot of information on them here. 

my top three choices for a gaming keyboard are:

1) Deck Legend (Ice, Frost, Fire, Toxic) - Polycarbonate Housing, Back/Aluminum Plate, Silt Texture, Cherry MX Black Switches with Silver Contacts, Full N-Key Rollover, Native USB or PS/2 Connection, Industrial Grade LED and One LED Per Key, LED Brightness Adjustable, Replacement and Optional Parts, 1 Year Warranty which is next to unvoidable they even encourage you to mod and I don't mean stickers and paint I mean soldering. $119-176 USD depending on model.

2) SteelSeries 7G (Black) - Iron-Infused Plastic Housing, Back Plate, Silt Texture, Laser Etched Key Caps, Sculpted Key Caps, Second Set of Grey Coloured Key Caps, Key Changer, Cherry MX Black Switches with Gold Contacts, Full N-Key Rollover, USB Hub with Microphone and Headphone Jack, All Cables Braided and Gold Plated, Optional PS/2 Adapter, F1-F6 double up as Media Controls, Wrist Wrest Attachment, 1 Year Warranty. $111-186 USD depending on where you buy it.

3) ABS M1 (Black) - ABS Plastic, Back Plate, Sculpted Key Caps, Silt Texture, ALPS Black Copies Switches, Braided USB Cable with Gold Plated Connector, 3 Year Warranty. $44-69 USD depending on where you buy it.

below is the Deck Legend SFF (82 Keys) the smallest model they have the housing is made out of polycarbonate (thermoplastic) very durable and it has a fiber glass casing that holds the PCB so when the LED's light up the light bounces, the LED's are industrial grade you cannot buy them in a store they are very bright and have a 22 year MTBF and thats if you leave them on 24/7.

Ice version in the dark.


----------



## n-ster (Oct 21, 2009)

lmk on that case... I eyed it alot in the past but never found some1 who bought it etc...


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 21, 2009)

So, you would have me pay three times as much for a board that has prettier lights and "better" plastic? Am I missing something or is this all just premium e-peen nonsense?



> Logitech G9x



Why would I want this over the G9? I can get one of those for $55 taxed/shipped. It is shaped exactly like I would my mouse to be shaped. That Steelseries you suggest just looks like another palm mouse.


----------



## erocker (Oct 21, 2009)

Viceroy said:


> Why would I want this over the G9? I can get one of those for $55 taxed/shipped. It is shaped exactly like I would my mouse to be shaped. That Steelseries you suggest just looks like another palm mouse.



Unless you like horizontal scrolling and think it's worth $40 bucks more, it's definitely not worth it. Get the G9.


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 21, 2009)

Well that sounds at least moderately useful, but worth 40 dollars? I'll have to think about it, but probably not. I could probably buy a decent trackball for about that much.


----------



## Wile E (Oct 22, 2009)

Viceroy said:


> So, you would have me pay three times as much for a board that has prettier lights and "better" plastic? Am I missing something or is this all just premium e-peen nonsense?
> 
> 
> 
> Why would I want this over the G9? I can get one of those for $55 taxed/shipped. It is shaped exactly like I would my mouse to be shaped. That Steelseries you suggest just looks like another palm mouse.



BumbleBee's the resident pro-level input device nut. Just like audio or videophiles, there are differences to what Bee suggests, but the average person won't notice a difference.

Personally, as long as the keyboard feels good to me, and takes up only a small amount of space on my desk, it's good enough for me. Mechanical switches vs dome vs scissor makes no difference if the keyboard does exactly what you want it to do, when you want it to do it. I use a Razer Lycossa that I got on sale for $40. Supposedly it uses an inferior design, but it works for my purposes. Never would have bought it at it's full price tho.

Mice are more of the same. I have an OCZ equalizer (rebadged A4Tech X-750). It was only $25, but works absolutely perfectly for my needs.

I have a generic cloth covered neoprene mouse mat as well.

My input devices have never held me back, but I'm not a professional gamer or anything of that sort.

I do strongly suggest trying input devices in person before you buy, if at all possible.


----------



## BumbleBee (Oct 22, 2009)

correct me if i'm wrong but the topic in this thread says "no budget" you ask some fair questions and I hope I can answer them.



Viceroy said:


> So, you would have me pay three times as much for a board that has prettier lights and "better" plastic? Am I missing something or is this all just premium e-peen nonsense?



mechanical keyboards are constructed with higher quality materials, they last longer, more reliable, they allow you to type faster and with more accuracy. 

*Standard & Mechanical Keyboard Advantages*

the advantages of a standard keyboard are:


rubber dome switches are softer 
rubber dome switches are quieter 

the advantages of a mechanical keyboard are: 


shorter travel distance 
shorter debounce time
audible click improves accuracy
mechanical switches are durable and rated for 20-50,000,000 keystrokes
mechanical switches do not degrade

*Switches Galore*

mechanical switches come in all flavors Cherry MX Black, Blue, Brown, White. Alps Black, White, etc the most frequent ones used in commercial mechanical keyboards are:


Cherry MX Black are preferred for gaming because they are non-tactile and non-clicky which means you won't be able to feel or hear a key when it's pressed 
Cherry MX Blue are preferred for typing because they are tactile and clicky which means you will be able to feel and hear a key when it's pressed
Cherry MX Brown is a compromise between Black and Blue they are tactile and non-clicky which means you will be able to feel but not hear a key when it's pressed - _very popular_

*Goa'uld.. I mean Logitech and Razer are false gods who must be slain*

I have already started my crusade against Logitech and Razer by listing the problems each of their flagship models have despite how inexpensive they are to manufacture ($5) in another thread but some issues still bug me like the G Keys on the G15 not only did they cut the amount of macros from 54 to 18 in Rev 2 but the drivers prevent you from creating complicated macros. there is a program called AutoHotKey which has a complex scripting language that allows you to create complicated macros for any key on the keyboard, if you want you can create 103 complicated macros for any application. Razer advertises anti-ghosting on the Lycosa but only the W, S, A, D cluster is because they have separate circuits on the matrix, USB Connection by default allows 6 + 4 Modifiers to be registered at once where PS/2 can do unlimited if you want to push 104 buttons at once you can.

*Closing : (*

despite a keyboard being one of the, if not most used component on a PC they are constantly overshadowed by processors, motherboard, video card, mouse, etc. I don't think people fully appreciate their value until they are without one for a short period of time. what I have been trying to do is educate people so they don't spend $69-199 on a standard Logitech or Razer keyboard but on a mechanical keyboard because of the difference in performance, quality and value. that being said mechanical keyboards are not for everybody however with the ABS M1 $38.24 (normally $69.99) with Free Shipping on Newegg which is less than a Razer Arctosa I would put some serious thought into.

if you want more information about mechanical keyboards go to geekhack 



Viceroy said:


> Why would I want this over the G9? I can get one of those for $55 taxed/shipped. It is shaped exactly like I would my mouse to be shaped. That Steelseries you suggest just looks like another palm mouse.



palm mouse is what you asked for, it was clear Razer wasn't going to do it for you. you don't have many options. you say the G9 series is exactly how you want your mouse to be shaped but it's asymmetrical and there has been no mouse like it. 

I only recommended the G9x because it has the fastest and most reliable laser sensor on the market.

G9 series isn't for everybody it can be very uncomfortable, the 2 grips that come with it xl (soft) and precision (hard), xl is used for claw grip, precision is used for palm grip a lot of people complain because they didn't include a soft and hard texture for each grip they also like to rattle once attached because there is a millimetre of space between the grip and the housing. 

the G9 has a high lift problem which can be corrected by applying a piece of scotch tape to the sensor it also has a lot of negative acceleration at high speed.

the G9x doesn't have a problem with either.

so keep this in mind if your going to purchase either.


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 22, 2009)

> correct me if i'm wrong but the topic in this thread says "no budget"



Yup, no budget at all.



> he advantages of a mechanical keyboard are:
> shorter travel distance *What is this?*
> shorter debounce time * huh*
> audible click improves accuracy *Couldn't I find this in a non-mechanical keyboard?*
> ...





> the G Keys on the G15 not only did they cut the amount of macros from 54 to 18 in Rev 2 but the drivers prevent you from creating complicated macros. there is a program called AutoHotKey which has a complex scripting language that allows you to create complicated macros for any key on the keyboard, if you want you can create 103 complicated macros for any application.



I use AHK so this is actually important to me. However with 18 mappable keys already I am unsure I would need more, and besides, I'm sure that somewhere out there is a driver hack that can fix this problem.



> educate people so they don't spend $69-199 on a standard Logitech or Razer keyboard



The G11 goes for 55 bucks



> the ABS M1 $38.24 (normally $69.99) with Free Shipping on Newegg which is less than a Razer Arctosa I would put some serious thought into.



Thanks, but the ABS M1 lacks: Backlighting, media controls, extra keys and appealing aesthetics. I'm pretty sure the whole "mechanical keyboard" shtick is irrelevant to me. 



> palm mouse is what you asked for



Quite the opposite; I asked for a fingertip mouse due to my regretful purchase of the Salmosa which was falsely marketed to me as such.

I can relate to your hatred of Logitech and Razer. No one wants to be a "mainstream" drifter and it's always fun to poke at popular things and cite their "inferiority" due to mass production. Logitech and Razer used to make a bunch of noobish junk, but I think they've come a long way since the 90's. If it were another company that made the keyboard and mouse that I want, I would have already bought it.

But you're barking up the wrong tree here. All this stuff about "durability" is trite to me, cuz I don't envision that ANY board I would purchase would be prone to breaking, and even if it did, I could buy 3 of them for the price of just one of your suggested boards. The ones you suggested all have at least one of the following flaws: No backlighting, no media controls, no extra keys, expensive, ugly. 

So what do you have to make up for all of this? "More noticeable keystrokes?"


----------



## Wile E (Oct 23, 2009)

Viceroy said:


> Yup, no budget at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Razer and Logitech is still noobish junk, for the most part. The quality isn't all that great, especially Razer. I have a Lycossa. Great for the $40 I spent on it, but would never spend the $80 they normally go for. This is the only razer product I have that's actually held together for more than 6 months. They are so ridiculously overpriced. And never, under any circumstances, buy any of their headphones. They are all confirmed rebadges of other brands that cost half as much as the razer branded ones, and are complete garbage. They don't have a single good headphone or headset.

That said, I still like Logitech mice, tho they are a bit overpriced as well. Never did like their boards, but I hate large boards, and that seems to be their preference.

I'm in your category as far as input devices, although you like the bigger, more feature rich boards with extra buttons. I can't help you with that, but I can say to give A4Tech and OCZ a shot for mice in the bang-for-buck category.


----------



## BumbleBee (Oct 23, 2009)

Viceroy said:


> he advantages of a mechanical keyboard are:
> shorter travel distance What is this?
> shorter debounce time huh
> audible click improves accuracy Couldn't I find this in a non-mechanical keyboard?
> ...



on a standard keyboard you need to press a key 3.5-4mm to register it. on a mechanical keyboard you need to press a key 2mm to register it.

the simplest way to explain debounce time is to think of a ball inside the key, if you press the key once the processor will register the key but the ball inside the key will keep bouncing before it stops, without debounce time the processor would register that key multiple times even though you only pressed the key once.

rubber domes have no audible click at all.

I have a couple products that have passed their MTBF that still work.

rubber domes do degrade overtime it's very subtle but they become slow, hard and sticky. if you have a keyboard that has been sitting in a closet for years, pull it out. 



Viceroy said:


> The G11 goes for 55 bucks



you are buying this with G Keys and low quality LED, you don't even get one per key.



Viceroy said:


> Thanks, but the ABS M1 lacks: Backlighting, media controls, extra keys and appealing aesthetics. I'm pretty sure the whole "mechanical keyboard" shtick is irrelevant to me.



1) you shouldn't be playing in the dark it's bad for your eyes. 2) you shouldn't be looking down at your keyboard, if you don't know where your keys are you have a problem. 3) as you very well know you can create your own media controls with AutoHotKey. 4) all keyboards have a standard layout, without a logo it's hard to differentiate a $10 keyboard from a $100 keyboard.



Viceroy said:


> Quite the opposite; I asked for a fingertip mouse due to my regretful purchase of the Salmosa which was falsely marketed to me as such.
> 
> I can relate to your hatred of Logitech and Razer. No one wants to be a "mainstream" drifter and it's always fun to poke at popular things and cite their "inferiority" due to mass production. Logitech and Razer used to make a bunch of noobish junk, but I think they've come a long way since the 90's. If it were another company that made the keyboard and mouse that I want, I would have already bought it.
> 
> ...



the proper term is palm grip which is usually preferred by high sensitivity gamers. claw grip is usually preferred by low sensitivity gamers.

I was only being sarcastic about Logitech and Razer, I don't hate them, hate is a really strong word I don't use lightly. I have owned many Logitech products (Z-680, Z-680, G51, Z-5500, G5) in the "Whats different from normal keyboard to gaming keyboard?" thread it was very difficult for me I felt like I was up against the world I know the Logitech G15 is probably the best selling keyboard of all time and majority gamers have it. it was a dark time for me, I went over the line but in the end I gave absolutely no reason for people to purchase it or people who have already purchased it not feel ripped off. the G Keys and Razer's advertising were only issues I can't get over, the keyboards themselves still have a lot of issues. there are still some more expensive keyboards like the Happy Hacking Pro II and Topre RealForce 87U which are $200-300 they use capacitive switches.

I think you are over exaggerating they are not ugly far from it they are beautiful.

ABS M1 (Silt Housing, Matte Keys)






Das Ultimate Professional Edition (Black Sheen Housing, Silt Keys, Laser Etched Keycaps) - _My Keyboard. I have a saying "Don't run, you will just die tired."_


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 23, 2009)

> And never, under any circumstances, buy any of their headphones



The Carcharias got a good review on Cnet and has seen positive reception elsewhere. What do you make of this?



> on a standard keyboard you need to press a key 3.5-4mm to register it. on a mechanical keyboard you need to press a key 2mm to register it.



OK, but I specifically asked for a board with a more noticeable depression. You are trying to take me down the opposite path.



> you are buying this with G Keys and low quality LED, you don't even get one per key.



The hell are you talking about?



> 1) you shouldn't be playing in the dark it's bad for your eyes. *It is also better for picture quality* 2) you shouldn't be looking down at your keyboard, *What you think I "shouldn't do" is irrelevant* if you don't know where your keys are you have a problem. *I know exactly where they are* 3) as you very well know you can create your own media controls with AutoHotKey. *A potential hassle with no additional keys* 4) all keyboards have a standard layout, without a logo it's hard to differentiate a $10 keyboard from a $100 keyboard.*Then show me to a 10 dollar keyboard with everything I want.*





> the proper term is palm grip which is usually preferred by high sensitivity gamers. claw grip is usually preferred by low sensitivity gamers.



The "proper term" for "palm grip" is "palm grip." The proper term for "claw grip" is "claw grip." The proper term for "fingertip grip" is "fingertip grip." Your point?

I have no assurance that I will even like the features you highlight for mechanical keyboards, even less then that they would be worth the price. So we need to come to terms on that and you should stop trying to convince me to get a mechanical board without showing me some evidence to which I can relate. If you can show me a board that has the features I want, from a brand that isn't Razer or Logitech, then you will be useful.

I was heavily considering the Razer Orochi to be my new mouse. I like its small size and shape that seems like it would be perfect for my ideal grip style. If you can find a mouse that is better or the same, for a price less than 65 dollars, I will be thankful.


----------



## Wile E (Oct 23, 2009)

I would rather buy the Steelseries 5H v2's for the same price as those Carcharias.


----------



## BumbleBee (Oct 23, 2009)

Viceroy said:


> OK, but I specifically asked for a board with a more noticeable depression. You are trying to take me down the opposite path.



mechanical switches have the most depression. you only _need_ to press the key half way down before the actuator in the mechanical switch does the rest. you can still press it all the way down to 4mm and bottom out.




Viceroy said:


> The hell are you talking about?



you are better off buying the Logitech Classic USB Keyboard and using AutoHotKey. it's still cheaper to buy a Soldering Iron and some LED. aside from the G Keys, Cheap LED and Bad Drivers that is what you are getting. do you think that is worth an extra $51? I don't.



> 1) you shouldn't be playing in the dark it's bad for your eyes. It is also better for picture quality 2) you shouldn't be looking down at your keyboard, What you think I "shouldn't do" is irrelevant if you don't know where your keys are you have a problem. I know exactly where they are 3) as you very well know you can create your own media controls with AutoHotKey. A potential hassle with no additional keys 4) all keyboards have a standard layout, without a logo it's hard to differentiate a $10 keyboard from a $100 keyboard.Then show me to a 10 dollar keyboard with everything I want.



no a CRT monitor improves picture quality. your pupils enlarge when there is less light which causes eye strain.



Viceroy said:


> The "proper term" for "palm grip" is "palm grip." The proper term for "claw grip" is "claw grip." The proper term for "fingertip grip" is "fingertip grip." Your point?
> 
> I have no assurance that I will even like the features you highlight for mechanical keyboards, even less then that they would be worth the price. So we need to come to terms on that and you should stop trying to convince me to get a mechanical board without showing me some evidence to which I can relate. If you can show me a board that has the features I want, from a brand that isn't Razer or Logitech, then you will be useful.
> 
> I was heavily considering the Razer Orochi to be my new mouse. I like its small size and shape that seems like it would be perfect for my ideal grip style. If you can find a mouse that is better or the same, for a price less than 65 dollars, I will be thankful.



my point is there is only two styles of posture palm and claw, there is no "fingertip". your talking about palm grip. palm grip is preferred for high sensitivity gamers, they distribute the weight to their fingers. claw grip is preferred for low sensitivity gamers, they distribute the weight to their palm because the mouse has to travel long distances.

well since I am "no longer useful" I wont bother helping you further. but I will say this the Carcharias and Orochi are mistakes


----------



## n-ster (Oct 23, 2009)

You should try these mechanical keyboards... they are godly  Seriously...

BumbleBee, maybe ViceRoy didn't benefit from your wisdom but I certainly did! Thanks

I might buy the M1 today... even though I don't need it


----------



## BumbleBee (Oct 23, 2009)

thanks. Binge reviewed the ABS M1 not too long ago, it is supposed to be a great starter for a mechanical keyboard but I am inclined to disagree I think a iOne Scorpius M10 is a better choice, the Cherry MX Blue switches in the iOne Scorpius M10 are meant for typing and it makes the transition to mechanical keyboards easier before going to something like Simplified Alps Blacks or Cherry MX Black which are meant for gaming. you can hear what the iOne Scorpius M10 keys sound like here (mmm)


----------



## n-ster (Oct 23, 2009)

Yes its because of Binge that I became interested in them in the 1st place lol. Since I'm not that much of a gamer or typer, but still like to have a comfortable keyboard (especially since I have a handicap on my right hand), I would take the cheaper one 

I love their feel, but the best part IMO is that it can suit a noob as well as a pro.. (me=noob... me=love mechanical keyboards )


----------



## BumbleBee (Oct 23, 2009)

this video makes the ABS M1 sound better than the poor user submitted clips on GeekHack, thought it be much worse for typing but it doesn't seem to be the case at all. and here is a video on the Deck Legend (turn volume up) that was added 2 days ago on Youtube which I can never find video of.


----------



## erocker (Oct 23, 2009)

Viceroy said:


> The hell are you talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I suggest you tone down your attitude towards those trying to help you. I don't even know why anyone is helping you at this point, since you seem to know what you already want.


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 23, 2009)

> I would rather buy the Steelseries 5H v2's for the same price as those Carcharias



Noted. I will read some reviews.



> mechanical switches have the most depression. you only need to press the key half way down before the actuator in the mechanical switch does the rest. you can still press it all the way down to 4mm and bottom out.



OK, well that's nice.



> you are better off buying the Logitech Classic USB Keyboard and using AutoHotKey. *The board you showed me has no extra keys, so using AHK'ing the regular keys will be the only option, and that is troublesome.* it's still cheaper to buy a Soldering Iron *A what?* and some LED. aside from the G Keys, Cheap LED and Bad Drivers that is what you are getting. do you think that is worth an extra $51? *34 dollars* I don't.



If the drivers and LED truly are "bad" then you may have convinced me. 



> no a CRT monitor improves picture quality. *As does a lack of light. Quit trying.* your pupils enlarge when there is less light which causes eye strain. *Common knowledge. Worth the benefits of minus backlighting.*





> my point is there is only two styles of posture palm and claw, there is no "fingertip".



Kthxbi

inb4razerzonenotacitableresource



> I don't even know why anyone is helping you at this point, since you seem to know what you already want.



I know _*exactly*_ what it is I want. I'm unsure as to which method I should use to attain it.


----------



## erocker (Oct 23, 2009)

Viceroy said:


> I know _*exactly*_ what it is I want. I'm unsure as to which method I should use to attain it.



Loot and pillage the villagers and take what is yours! If you are on the subject of keyboards, do you want the thing to click or not? While I find the clicking soothing in some ways, others find the rap tap tap very annoying if you have other people to worry about. If you need backlighting and no clicking, something like the Saitek Eclipse or Razer Lycosa might be a good choice. I like the Lycosa, but on the other hand it's a bit too expensive.


----------



## BumbleBee (Oct 23, 2009)

Viceroy said:


> you are better off buying the Logitech Classic USB Keyboard and using AutoHotKey. The board you showed me has no extra keys, so using AHK'ing the regular keys will be the only option, and that is troublesome. it's still cheaper to buy a Soldering Iron A what? and some LED. aside from the G Keys, Cheap LED and Bad Drivers that is what you are getting. do you think that is worth an extra $51? 34 dollars I don't.



I went with Newegg prices.

there is already pre-made Media Control scripts for AutoHotKey available for XP and Vista. you have a 17 key numpad to the right of you that is next to never used that is secluded. the beauty of AutoHotKey is you don't have to sacrifice any keys you can use your numpad anytime you want but when you want to use a macro you hit Windows Key + Num Pad Key.



Viceroy said:


> If the drivers and LED truly are "bad" then you may have convinced me.



it's Logitech.. their drivers are designed for pre-schoolers.



Viceroy said:


> no a CRT monitor improves picture quality. As does a lack of light. Quit trying. your pupils enlarge when there is less light which causes eye strain. Common knowledge. Worth the benefits of minus backlighting.



stop trying? you have an attitude what am I supposed to do skip down the street.



Viceroy said:


> Kthxbi
> 
> inb4razerzonenotacitableresource



oh yes more attitude. didn't I just mention how shady Razer's advertising was? they created a whole new grip exclusive to their Salmosa model, a claw grip with straight fingers and call it "fingertip grip" give me a break.



Viceroy said:


> I know _*exactly*_ what it is I want. I'm unsure as to which method I should use to attain it.



usually something to put your products in helps.


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 23, 2009)

> stop trying? you have an attitude what am I supposed to do skip down the street.



Because at this point you are only arguing for the sake of winning the argument. You are not trying to be helpful. You know full-well that a lack of outside light influence improves contrast ratio. You are making pitiable arguments for this benefit. Stop trying.



> oh yes more attitude. didn't I just mention how shady Razer's advertising was? they created a whole new grip exclusive to their Salmosa model, a claw grip with straight fingers and call it "fingertip grip" give me a break.



Even Techpowerup mouse reviews have frequently mentioned "fingertip" grips and grippers in their evaluations of smaller mice. Perhaps we have had a misunderstanding, and you simply didn't know what I meant when I said I wanted a fingertip-grip mouse. Now that you do, perhaps we can stop grasping at straws.


----------



## erocker (Oct 23, 2009)

Perhaps you need to find help elsewhere. Or, rethink how you are going about asking for help.


----------

