# HP Workstations Owners Club



## juiseman (Apr 3, 2019)

Welcome all HP workstation owners!!

Stated thread goals 

Information and support for HP workstations
Upgrading and software support
Links to used HP workstations and parts
post pics of builds and setup


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## Deleted member 178884 (Apr 3, 2019)

You posted this thread twice already....
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/hp-workstations-owners-club.254313/


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## juiseman (Apr 3, 2019)

Yes; I'm trying to delete them

bad way to start a thread..


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## dorsetknob (Apr 3, 2019)

one of the threads was reported to mods for clean up


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## juiseman (Apr 5, 2019)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Z400-Wo...126929?hash=item1ef74e5d51:g:laYAAOSw-kNck-vV

This looks like a v2 so it will work with Xeon 5600's  and W3600's series CPU's

Not a bad deal; but I've got these for around $45-$60 plus shipping before. with included Video, ram and HD

Seller does accept offers


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## juiseman (Apr 8, 2019)

http://www.instock901.com/hp-workst...h4fKZn-YRmYpsHDiYta3mjH8AifIt-vkaAtXjEALw_wcB

HP Workstation Z210 500GB, Intel Xeon, 3.3GHz E3-1240, 8GB socket LGA1155  $125 plus shipping

This Xeon is about the same as a i7 3770

Pretty good deal; just pop in an SSD and nice little lite use rig

And another; a mini tower

https://www.pcliquidations.com/p873...fIlhVf3GQmdWvs2xlwgOMhtwF4Mei0koaAoDVEALw_wcB

*HP Z220 Mini Tower Intel Xeon Processor (E3-1225) 3.20GHz 4GB DDR3 250GB HDD* $152 plus shipping

http://www.instock901.com/hp-workst...H_-fP5KWpLI7Ph2skJyKAN302GOC7iacaAicmEALw_wcB

*HP Workstation Z420 500GB, Intel Xeon, 2.8GHz E5-1603, 8GB PC $160 plus shipping*

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...on=Z800&cm_re=Z800-_-1VK-001E-23K74-_-Product

HP Z800 Workstation 2x X5650 2.66GHz 6-Cores 12GB DDR3 No HDD No OS No Video 

Should be the later boot block date

This would be good w/ a set of cheap 5690's or 5680's.


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## juiseman (Apr 19, 2019)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Z420-Workstation-Xeon-E5-1607-3-0Ghz-8GB-DVDRW-500GB-HD-600W-Windows-7-Pro/254147853924?hash=item3b2c647e64:g:Wq8AAOSwCuBcaIWZ&LH_BIN=1

*HP Z420 Workstation Xeon E5-1607 3.0Ghz 8GB DVDRW 500GB HD + 600W Windows 7 Pro $149.99 Free Shipping US only*

Cant tell if this is a v2 system or not. I would always assume it has the older boot block date based on the CPU installed
Which is a V1 E5. But I have also received a V2 CPU when it was advertised as a V1. Either way; still not a bad deal.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Z420-Workstation-Intel-Xeon-Quad-Core-3-0GHz-No-RAM-No-HDD-600W-Win-7-COA/173250151255?hash=item2856838357:g:aoAAAOSwpdBbSL2A:sc:UPSGround!31088!US!-1&LH_BIN=1

*HP Z420 Workstation Intel Xeon Quad Core 3.0GHz No RAM No HDD 600W Win 7 COA $154.99 US only*

Here is a Haswel based LGA 1150

*Hp Z230 Workstation w/Intel i7-4770 3.40 Ghz Cpu/(8GB)2x4GB DDR3 RAM/2TB Drive* *$229.99* *Free Shipping US only*

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hp-Z230-Workstation-w-Intel-i7-4770-3-40-Ghz-Cpu-8GB-2x4GB-DDR3-RAM-2TB-Drive/392264894441?_trkparms=aid=555018&algo=PL.SIM&ao=1&asc=20131003132420&meid=e524cbb9f3bb409a8a0699207c5cab2b&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=12&sd=173250151255&itm=392264894441&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Z400-Wo...sh=item48c4b56b6b:g:6p4AAOSwXHpck-sO&LH_BIN=1

*HP Z400 Workstation | 2.80GHz Xeon Quad Core W3530 | 6gb DDR3 | DVD-RW $69.99 + $25 US Only Seller does accept offers. I'd lowball at $40-$50...They will probably take it.*

*This Should be a V2 and work with w36xx & 56xx based Xeon's. Usually when they ship with 6G RAM that indicates a 3x2GB installed RAM or 6 RAM slots total.*


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## MrGRiMv25 (May 10, 2019)

Just finished my Z400 build that I got earlier this year. I had the W3550 for around 5 months before finding a W3680 for less than the other sellers on eBay, it had come from an iMAC according to the seller. 

So far it has: 

W3680 - 3.6Ghz all core turbo with Throttlestop and no extra voltage, just a slight bump in speed for longevity.
3x4GB DDR3-1600 @ 1333 9-9-9-24
RX570 Nitro 4GB (luckily I had no issues with UEFI bios like some have reported with these cards)
WD 240 SSD and some normal mech HDD's

All for around £220 or roughly the same price as a single 9600K.


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## juiseman (May 10, 2019)

Thanks for the share!


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## Aaron_Henderson (May 10, 2019)

Here's a Z400 based build I did for my girlfriend -


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## Readlight (May 10, 2019)

hp pc haw own psu whit diferent motherboard cable and anoying secure bios. Hard to put moor hard drives in. Not easy to repair.


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## juiseman (May 11, 2019)

Nice build man....

How hard was it mounting the Z400 MB in that case?
Did you have to do any MOD's? or do they fit ATX size?



Readlight said:


> hp pc haw own psu whit diferent motherboard cable and anoying secure bios. Hard to put moor hard drives in. Not easy to repair.



I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here.


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## Aaron_Henderson (May 11, 2019)

juiseman said:


> Nice build man....
> 
> How hard was it mounting the Z400 MB in that case?
> Did you have to do any MOD's? or do they fit ATX size



It was super easy to mount the motherboard as it's basically ATX form factor, only a couple standoff locations near the memory slots don't line up, but it runs fine without those standoffs...could always drill and tap the extra standoff hole or two.  The toughest part of the conversion is the ATX PSU...the 24 pin connectors are different, and the PSU mounting are different...in order to run a standard ATX PSU you need to either create a 24-pin adapter, or swap the pinout on the connector.  I did the latter, and just spliced the cables, and hid the mess with a sleeved 24-pin extension.


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## Darmok N Jalad (May 18, 2019)

Reading through the Dell Workstation thread got me dreaming,. I don't need cutting edge, so I just ordered a z420 with an E5-2650 v2 8C/16T for $205 shipped. I still need to order a video card for it, perhaps another used purchase. Best I can tell, the z420 has dual 6-pin connectors. Any suggestions? I don't need gaming power, just good Linux (Mint) support. Maybe an RX560?


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## juiseman (May 20, 2019)

That sounds like good deal!! Yes it has a 6 pin plug.
I run a RX560 and its fine for the 1 game I play at 1080p.
nice find.


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## Darmok N Jalad (May 21, 2019)

I asked the seller on my Z420 if I had one or two 6-pin connectors (HP sold both for a time). They confirmed one plug, so that helped narrow my search. I found a "barely used" RX 560 for $71, so I'm hoping i found a winner. The listing's serial says it's the 14CU version, but the serial sticker on the card in the picture has it as the 16CU. Either way, I'm fine with what I get.

Now I'm on the hunt now for some SSDs. I'll probably do SATA version, maybe a pair in RAID0.


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## Darmok N Jalad (May 24, 2019)

It's alive! I'm up and running. Pulled the old SSD (Agility 3) out of my anemic base machine and dropped it into my "new" Z420. Still waiting for my new SSD, which has more space so I can dual boot Mint and Windows. I also found 16GB of DDR3 for $35, so when it's all complete, I'll have 24GB of RAM, with 2 slots to spare. 

So basically, what I will end up with is an 8C/16T machine with 24GB RAM, RX560 4GB, and a 480GB SSD for $360.  I could have saved a bit and gone with an R9 380, but I thought this only had 1 6-pin PCIe, but it actually has 2 after all.


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## juiseman (May 24, 2019)

Man; you built a whole computer for about the price of a new CPU!!

That is why I wanted to start this thread and share my experience with the Z600's, Z400's & Z420's I built last year!!

Another thing; keep an eye out for the Z440's ...Prices should becoming down soon with the release of new CPU's 
from AMD and Intel later this year.

Z440, Z640's and Z840's use LGA2011 V3 so keep that in mind when upgrading your CPU​*LGA2011 has 3 different revisions*: *








						LGA 2011 - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



They also use ddr4 RAM which is still a bit high in price.

HP Z440 Quick Specs:


			http://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/GetPDF.aspx/c04400038.pdf
		

*


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## Darmok N Jalad (May 24, 2019)

juiseman said:


> Man; you built a whole computer for about the price of a new CPU!!
> 
> That is why I wanted to start this thread and share my experience with the Z600's, Z400's & Z420's I built last year!!
> 
> ...


When I get my RAM, I’ll finally be running quad-channel, and then I can see how it benches. I imagine the current dual channel configuration is a bit bandwidth-starved. I have some benches I’ve run on previous machines that I’ll compare this machine to. One would be the W3690, so we’ll have a Gulftown vs Ivy Bridge-E stand-off.


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## Darmok N Jalad (May 26, 2019)

So I'm tooling around with my RX560 that I landed off eBay. Great card, and indeed the 16CU version of Polaris. It's a single fan model, and while the GDDR5 is stock rated for 1500MHz, I'm able to get it up well beyond 1800MHz with WattMan. I crashed it around 1890Mhz. Haven't bothered with OCing the GPU part, as it's already rated for 1295MHz.


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## MrGRiMv25 (May 27, 2019)

Darmok N Jalad said:


> When I get my RAM, I’ll finally be running quad-channel, and then I can see how it benches. I imagine the current dual channel configuration is a bit bandwidth-starved. I have some benches I’ve run on previous machines that I’ll compare this machine to. One would be the W3690, so we’ll have a Gulftown vs Ivy Bridge-E stand-off.



I wouldn't mind seeing those benches as looking to get a 2011 CPU at some point, probably a 4930k as they're hitting the £120 mark on eBay currently.


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## Darmok N Jalad (May 31, 2019)

Finished my "new" build. RAM arrived this week, as did my wonderful new 27" 4K display--the LG LG 27UL500-W. Enjoying Linux Mint to the full now!


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## juiseman (Jun 18, 2019)

*Here is some good info on overclocking HP Z620's with E5-1600's v2 series CPU's 
with TS and Intel's XTU utilities  










						z420/z620 overcklock
					

Hello, i whant to overcklock 1650 v2 in z420/z620 v2.  For start i am use XTU and it is capeble to overcklock all threads to 3.9GHz  Then i find out that if i ran ThrottleStop and set multipler to 42 after this i can increase overcklock in XTU to 42 too, and 1650 v2 work in 4.2GHz. But in heavy...




					h30434.www3.hp.com
				



*


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## Darmok N Jalad (Jun 18, 2019)

Sounds fun, but I don’t have Windows installed on my machine. I’m guessing this one won’t work on Linux.


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## juiseman (Jun 18, 2019)

Sorry man...I don't think so

I'm also not that familiar with Linux either..... maybe try out a few new distro's from time to time...that's about it.

Mostly a Windows/Mac Os guy here....


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## juiseman (Jun 19, 2019)

*








						HP Z420 Workstation XEON E5-1607 V2 3.0GHz 8GB 1TB HDD DVDRW NVS 310 NO OS   | eBay
					

HP Z420 Workstation XEON E5-1607 V2 3.0GHz 8GB 1TB HDD NO OS. Model: Z420 Workstation. HP Z420 Workstation (NO OS). Video Card : NVIDIA NVS 310 (2 x Displayports). Hard Drive: 1TB HDD. Normal signs of usage on casing.



					www.ebay.com
				



*
*HP Z420 Workstation XEON E5-1607 V2 3.0GHz 8GB 1TB HDD DVDRW NVS 310 NO OS Free Shipping $162.00 + "accepts offers"*​





						HP Z400 Workstation SFF | 3.07GHz Quad Core Xeon W3550 | 4GB DDR3 | DVD-ROM  for sale online
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for HP Z400 Workstation SFF | 3.07GHz Quad Core Xeon W3550 | 4GB DDR3 | DVD-ROM at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				




*HP Z400 Workstation | 2.6GHz Xeon Quad Core W3520 | 6gb DDR3 | DVD-RW $69.99 +$23 Shipping (EST based on location) **"accepts offers"*​








						HP Z800 Workstation Xeon E5606 2 Quad Core 2.13GHz 12GB 2x250GB HDD Nvidia Q5000  | eBay
					

Hard Drives 2 250 HDD, Included All HDD Caddy; 2 HDD Fans. Tested Yes - Passed HP Diagnostics. Manuals, power cords, CDs, keyboard and mouse are not included. Condition Used. Software Windows 7 Professional COA On The Case.



					www.ebay.com
				




*HP Z800 Workstation Xeon E5606 2 Quad Core 2.13GHz 12GB 2x250GB HDD Nvidia Q5000*​

*US $200.00 * 
 *$29.41*   Standard Shipping ​​​​​


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## Darmok N Jalad (Jun 23, 2019)

So I ordered a 24pin to 18pin harness and got around to trying it today. I had a decent 500W PSU going unused, and it works great. The down side is that no mounting holes line up, but I actually came up with a novel “pressure fit” solution by using a metal L bracket. 

I can now add an 8 pin GPU with confidence, and I found a nice RX 580 that I will give a try for better compute performance. The other nice thing about this change is that upon boot, the system can longer ramp the PSU fan up to 100% before posting. Much quieter now. Hard to blame the old PSU, I bet that fan has a lot of hours on it. 

In other news, I cut myself on this case jockeying it around. I don’t know if that has ever happened before!


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## Samiam66 (Jun 24, 2019)

Hello all

New to this forum

I have a total of five working and using daily  HP Z-420   boot block date   3/6/2013 on all of them
all five have :

32 Gigs each of  1866 Samsung Memory   one has 64GB
SSD boot drive mostly Samsung 860EVO, 1 Adata  SU800 & 1 Crucial MX500
Nvidia cards in all 
Two with GTX1060 6GB 
One with Strix GTX-970 4gb
One with  Gigabyte GTX-960 4gb Windforce 3-Fan
One with Asus Strix Gtx-950 2gb
7200 RPM storage drive and removable drive bays for Imaging

and one  Z400 with W3565 Xeon early MB with 4 dims slots ..
Plays forza 6 extremely well for a 10 year old workstation 

I am a Forza Seven Racing ...fool

Will post more later thank you for letting me joint his forum 
also i have a lot of Hp parts


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## Darmok N Jalad (Jun 24, 2019)

Samiam66 said:


> Hello all
> 
> New to this forum
> 
> ...


Are those updated CPU coolers?


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## juiseman (Jun 24, 2019)

I was wondering the same; looks kind of like a 212+; 
Did you do the 4 to 5 pin Jumper MOD for that? or just splice the cable?

Also; what CPU's are you using in those z420's?

Man, I thought I was a Z420 nut, you defiantly have me beat.
the most HP workstations I had at one time were 3 Z400's + 2 Z420's plus 4 custom Xeon E5 builds with import China boards...


This makes me want to buy another Z420....I just cant think of a use for it!!!


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## Samiam66 (Jun 24, 2019)

Using Cool Master H2 CPU cooler on this one ..
A Coolmaster 212 Evo is too tall and the case door wont close properly..
However on the other five I use Gammax 400 cpu cooler its only  6.100 tall and fits perfectly ...
Then I use a Roswell Thin 120mm fan ...its only 15mm wide on the back side and clears the memory Fan  duct

All the Machine use a Intel E5-1620 V2  chip ...3.7 gig
1589 motherboard boot block date 3/6/2013  No OC
1866 Samsung Memory dual rank ...I use registered and unbuffered,  just not in the same machine

As for the 5 pin Header fan ...I got tired of ordering the adapter from Moddiy.com in Japan







and now just make my own
from a splitter cable ...you just need to cross over from pin 1-5 ...you can use the 5 pin connecter from the original
fan ...just pop out the pins


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## juiseman (Jun 24, 2019)

Thanks for sharing that info!!!


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## juiseman (Jun 27, 2019)

HP Z400 Workstation | 2.6GHz Xeon Quad Core W3520 | 6gb DDR3 | DVD-RW  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for HP Z400 Workstation | 2.6GHz Xeon Quad Core W3520 | 6gb DDR3 | DVD-RW at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				




*HP Z400 Workstation | 2.6GHz Xeon Quad Core W3520 | 6gb DDR3 | DVD-RW

Couldn't help myself....just got one for $40+23 Shipping*









						Intel Xeon X5675 - 3.06GHz Hexa-Core (AT80614006696AA) Processor for sale online | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Intel Xeon X5675 - 3.06GHz Hexa-Core (AT80614006696AA) Processor at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				




*Intel Xeon X5675 SLBYL 6-Cores 3.06GHz 12MB 95W LGA1366 CPU

If it works, I'll get this CPU and pop it in....*


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## Darmok N Jalad (Jun 27, 2019)

Nice. Once you upgrade to a faster Xeon, you should be pretty happy. Even the W3520 isn’t that bad of a chip for basic tasks, but a faster hex-core makes a big difference.


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## juiseman (Jun 27, 2019)

10-4; I have an SSD already.....
So now my list is 2 z420's, 2 Z400's 3 X79 custom builds and 1 mac pro 4,1 flashed to 5,1 .....

lol....over kill....


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## Darmok N Jalad (Jun 28, 2019)

I love the old Mac Pros. Just shows how a good design can last a long time.


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## juiseman (Jun 28, 2019)

Intel Xeon X5670 2.93GHz Six-Core (BX80614X5670) Processor for sale online | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Intel Xeon X5670 2.93GHz Six-Core (BX80614X5670) Processor at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				




*Got this CPU today for the Z400...I havn't checked the boot block date; but the 6GB of RAM is a good indicator its the later boot block date
that takes Xeon 5600's for $17 Shipped.

Total price so Far $80*

Just need a GPU now; That will be the hard part.
I may do that later and just get a cheap SSD for now.
My budget left for this is only $26 next pay day.









						Patriot Burst 2.5" 240GB SATA III Internal SSD - Newegg.com
					

Buy Patriot Burst 2.5" 240GB SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) PBU240GS25SSDR with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				




Yep; buying this now with tax $24.60

*Total price so Far $104.60*

I'll Chill for now until I get the Computer and test it.
I think I have a old workstation GPU (Quadro 600) somewhere I can put it there for now...
Usually these come with old GPU's anyhow...

better wait to buy a budget gaming GPU till later....
Its just a kids school computer for online stuff basically...






						Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 32/64 Bit Lifetime Product Key for sale online | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 32/64 Bit Lifetime Product Key at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				




Oh yea; I forgot the Windows 10 Key

$1.50

*Total price so Far $106!!
Not bad for a $100 computer....

I'll post results of the build after the holidays when the parts should arrive...*​


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## Darmok N Jalad (Jun 28, 2019)

I just upgraded my own rig to an RX 580, so my RX 560 4GB is now idle. Not sure what your budget is for a GPU, but I'm not in a big rush to sell.

I had the X5670 in my old Mac Pro for a time. Another really good cheap Xeon is the X5677. It's only 4C/8T, but it clocks high for better single thread.


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## juiseman (Jun 28, 2019)

Yes!! I was looking x5687 and x5677 but they are both 130w CPU's
And I'm pretty sure this has the standard cooler (90W) on it based on the installed 
CPU. So it will give that annoying warning after POST (unless I jump the PINs too fool it)
So I figured I'd just get 5670 for cheap.  the kids only play simple games so I may not actually
update the GPU. We shall see if GPU prices drop after the new AMD's start shipping...
I'm thinking they won't budge much....

But yes; the RX550/560/570/580 all on my short list. 

I have a 560 in my main rig; works fine at 1080 for the only game i play WOT...


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## Darmok N Jalad (Jun 28, 2019)

Funny thing about the x5677–when I used it in the Mac Pro, it seemed to run the coolest of all the CPUs I tried. The W3680 was the hottest.


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## Samiam66 (Jul 2, 2019)

I have 2 Xtra Cpus
1. W3520 Xeon Chip   Z400
2. E51620 V1 Xeon ...  Z420

If anyone wants to trade ..no cash needed


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## juiseman (Jul 30, 2019)

I think I only have 3 W3520's left from the z400's I upgraded,
I tried to resell them on Ebay; but no offers.  Same as the Quadro 600's
that came with them. Pretty much worthless these days.


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## Darmok N Jalad (Jul 30, 2019)

Those W3520s are a dime a dozen. Many of the used 4,1 Mac Pros out there ship with that chip, and the first thing everyone does anymore is flash to 5,1 and drop in a Westmere hex. I've got a W3520 sitting on my papers right now.


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## kencolover83 (Aug 12, 2019)

Hey.....
Just recently bought a Z420 for £50 and currently cleaning and building back up.
Its running an E5 1603 and 12gb DDR3 1600 ram.
Have updated to the latest bios and the boot block date is 3/6/13 meaning i can run certain v2 cpus.
Just the 1603 runs my ram at 1066 rather than 1600 
Also...
My cooler seems to be the liquid cooler with the radiator. Am i best keeping it or look at replacing it or even flush it and pop some fresh liquid in?


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## Samiam66 (Aug 12, 2019)

kencolover83 said:


> Hey.....
> Just recently bought a Z420 for £50 and currently cleaning and building back up.
> Its running an E5 1603 and 12gb DDR3 1600 ram.
> Have updated to the latest bios and the boot block date is 3/6/13 meaning i can run certain v2 cpus.
> ...





This Might help  page 3





memory is capped to 1066 as max for E5-1603   
  "            "       "        "   1600 as max for E5-1620 v1 
  "            "       "        "   1866 as max for E5-1620 v2    

Somebody most likely swapped out Ram and Cpu for older parts
happens all the time on Ebay..

I also attached a Quik refrence guide from HP for z420 only 68 page PDF


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## juiseman (Sep 6, 2019)

*HP Z420 Workstation *

*Xeon E5-1650 V2 3.5GHz 16GB  $203+*
​Shipping:

​ 
 * $17.69 *  Standard Shipping 

Guaranteed by *Wed. Sep. 11*














						HP Z420 Workstation F9B37UC#ABA Xeon E5-1650 V2 3.5GHz 16GB SEE NOTES  | eBay
					

F9B37UC#ABA Product Condition Z420 Workstation Manufacturer Part Number HP Manufacturer HP Item Condition video card removed. Unit does not include hard drive caddie(s). Item(s) will have a 4"x2" internal inventory label, see pictures.



					www.ebay.com
				




*HP Z400 Workstation | 2.67GHz Xeon Quad Core W3520 | 24gb DDR3 | DVD-RW*
​​*Item Information*

Condition:​​*Used​*
_*“*This unit has been tested to successfully power on and boot to the BIOS screen.*”*_



Was:​​US $91.99 



​
You save:​​*$23.00 (25% off)​*
Price:​​*US $68.99
​*









						HP Z400 Workstation | 2.67GHz Xeon Quad Core W3520 | 24gb DDR3 | DVD-RW  | eBay
					

Series: W3520. Size: 24gb. Model: Z400. Form Factor: Workstation. Type: Xeon. Type: DDR3. All manufacturers' warranties are void unless otherwise stated. Item Location.



					www.ebay.com


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## elan (Sep 8, 2019)

*HP Z840 E5-2643 v3 x2 32GB Quadro M4000 Win 10pro x64
Please could  someone tell me if the earlier model (2014) of Z840 could use also E5-2600 V4 series CPUs.
Thanks

*


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## juiseman (Sep 9, 2019)

Good question; I'm looking for an answer on this one.
So far I've only found some guy with the same question as you.


			https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Desktops-Archive-Read-Only/Z440-640-840-is-there-a-boot-block-issue-like-in-the-Zx20/td-p/5895487
		


I don't know why that info is so hard to find; you may have to find a cheap v4 and just try it.
Here is another person wanting to know the cpu support list of a 2014 boot block









						HP Z840 Hardware Upgrade (just CPU)
					

Hi everyone! I have some question about upgrade;   I have a Hp z840 workstation single Xeon E5-2630 v3 2.4 cpu. and i want to upgrade to "Xeon E5-2695 v4 2.1 2400 (dual)"I cant find the motherboard name or specs at the website.i just need to know,can i upgrade to 2695 series without change the...




					h30434.www3.hp.com
				




I bet it may be the same as the other Z series versions If I had to guess. There are some decent supported CPU's on this list for the 2014 Boot Block V1 Mother boards.


			https://www.novastar.net/wp-content/uploads/HP-Z840-Data-sheet.pdf
		


I love this link below.
I use it all the time when searching Ebay for deals; it really helps nail the best core count speed and price when hunting.
Its easy to see if the seller has it over valued and great to see what Intel had originally (over-priced...lol...) the CPU at.
I also use Geek Bench as a rough guide to balance the best price to performance ratio.
And, one more thing; remember not to spend too much....these new CPU's from AMD are (sadly) starting to make
some of these workstations (That I love) be worth a little less than they used to be.
To put it in perspective; were at points now where the CPU's are getting close to 2x the Single/Multi-thread performance of these Xeons
for a lot less than before. So keep that in mind.









						List of Intel Xeon processors - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## Samiam66 (Sep 15, 2019)

elan said:


> *HP Z840 E5-2643 v3 x2 32GB Quadro M4000 Win 10pro x64
> Please could  someone tell me if the earlier model (2014) of Z840 could use also E5-2600 V4 series CPUs.
> Thanks*


This Might give you more information ....its the 104 page HP Quick Specs log complete  for Z-840

Sam


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## r0k0 (Apr 18, 2020)

Hey guys, i've bought 2 HP workstation last week

HP Z800 Dual Xeon X5675 - 24GB PC3-10600R - Quadro K4000 - 1TB Raid on 4 drives
HP Z220 Xeon E3 1245 V2 - 16GB PC3-12800E - GTX 1060 6GB - 128GB SSD - 500GB HDD

Question.

Changed the ram in my Z800, i originally had Samsung PC3-10600R 6x 4GB Sticks, bought some Hynix PC3-10600R, 12x 4GB, ran great the day i installed it, ran cinebench and was folding@home perfect, turned it off and left for the week, got back home started the pc, turned off by itself, and would restart by itself + turn off again and again.

finally after a few hours, started and ran ok... but my pc is slugish while folding which wasnt doing it before, would the new ram cause this issue ? i really like having 48gb vs 24gb haha


----------



## TARDIS (Jul 24, 2020)

Hi all, new to owning a Z620 and looking at upgrading storage. Plan is to install a couple of PCIe M.2 adapter cards and two NVMe SSDs - 1TB for OS and apps, and 500GB for scratch. System will be used for GIS/mapping, photo and video editing. Specs are 2011 build Z620, E5-1650v0 3.2 cpu, 32GB RAM, 1TB hdd, NVIDIA Quadro K2000.

My question is will the Z620 with this cpu support NVMe by PCIe M.2 adapter and at what speed?

One dealer suggested only PCIe 2.0 only and I would be just as well off installing a 2.5" SATA SSD and saving money. Obviously I would prefer the speed of the NVMe SSD.

Any help would be appreciated.

cheers, Pete


----------



## Samiam66 (Jul 24, 2020)

Tarvis

You wont be able to boot from m.2 drive ..the UEFI Bios wont look for it
as for storage that shouldnt be a issue

Edwired
lexluthermiester
Please correct me if im wrong

although i did find this  









						SM951 M.2 SSD in a HP Z620
					

Hi all, my first post on this forum. Not so much a question but rather some possible helpful information regarding the newer style M.2 SSD cards around with regards to the HP Z620 workstation.   I recently purchased a 256GB Samsung SM951 MZHPV256HDGL-00000 PCI Express M.2 hard drive module to...




					h30434.www3.hp.com
				




Sam


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## TARDIS (Jul 28, 2020)

Samiam66 said:


> Tarvis
> 
> You wont be able to boot from m.2 drive ..the UEFI Bios wont look for it
> as for storage that shouldnt be a issue
> ...



Thanks Sam. 
I have seen conflicting information which is why I was asking before ordering the parts. Some posts agree with what you have said, whereas others suggest that after a bios update they can boot from M.2 NVMe over PCIe. I have updated to the latest bios (details at home) and hoping another user has some experience that can help.

thanks, Pete


----------



## juiseman (Jul 28, 2020)

if your boot block BIOS is 2013, with the latest update. it should support NVME









						Z620 M2 NVME support in bios update
					

Hello All,   Thanks for all the tips and tricks I've viewed and used so far. Mostly getting the boot block date current so I could use the V2 Xeon's!! Much appreciated!! :)   Hoping HP might update bios to support the Z Turbo G2's in the future! I'm mean the G1 is OK, But with the lastest CPU...




					h30434.www3.hp.com


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## TARDIS (Jul 28, 2020)

juiseman said:


> if your boot block BIOS is 2013, with the latest update. it should support NVME
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi juisenab, and thanks.
This is my bios as per HP performance Advisor (see below). If I'm right, this should work?
Many thanks, Pete


----------



## juiseman (Jul 28, 2020)

I think your good, can you go to your bios and check the boot block date? should say 2011 or 2013...

From memory, i'm sure the 2013 will work; I own some Z420's (they use the same BIOS)


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## TARDIS (Jul 28, 2020)

Well, apparently still on 2011 block. How do I update it? Can I update it?


----------



## Noxman (Sep 4, 2020)

Hi, 

I just got the Z600 v2 and I want the best CPU for it. Is it possible to put a W3690 in it with the 130W cooler?
Ive googled and got very mixed results. Im not interested in X series, cause i dont need the 2nd slot, and i found the W3690 at a good price.


----------



## Lolless (Sep 10, 2020)

Hello everyone this is my beast of a machine... Its a HP z420 with an e5-2667 v2 processor, 64gb ram, nvidia 1080 founders edition gpu, a 1tb samsung ssd, and a seasonice 750w 80+ gold psu. now i have a question i have been looking at a different processor e5-2697 and am wondering if it will work in the z420?


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## Mr Bill (Sep 10, 2020)

Lolless said:


> Hello everyone this is my beast of a machine... Its a HP z420 with an e5-2667 v2 processor, 64gb ram, nvidia 1080 founders edition gpu, a 1tb samsung ssd, and a seasonice 750w 80+ gold psu. now i have a question i have been looking at a different processor e5-2697 and am wondering if it will work in the z420?


Sweet! they could probably use that to operate the Space Shuttle, nice machine.


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## Caring1 (Sep 10, 2020)

Lolless said:


> Hello everyone this is my beast of a machine... Its a HP z420 with an e5-2667 v2 processor, 64gb ram, nvidia 1080 founders edition gpu, a 1tb samsung ssd, and a seasonice 750w 80+ gold psu. now i have a question i have been looking at a different processor e5-2697 and am wondering if it will work in the z420?


Have you checked the compatibility list at HP?
I doubt it will work unless it is a V2 also.


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## Peter Lindgren (Sep 10, 2020)

I have a Z420 and replaced the CPU with a 2696v2 and it works fine with stock cooler. So 2697v2 will work as well.


----------



## juiseman (Sep 10, 2020)

Noxman said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just got the Z600 v2 and I want the best CPU for it. Is it possible to put a W3690 in it with the 130W cooler?
> Ive googled and got very mixed results. Im not interested in X series, cause i dont need the 2nd slot, and i found the W3690 at a good price.











						Z600 with dual X5680 CPU
					

Hey there!   I got a later spec Z600 WS here that came with dual X5650 (TDP 95W). I made a good deal and got two X5680 (TDP 130W), and tryed to install those to the WS. System tells me, that the CPU installed needs too much power, and the System got halted.   Is it a Problem with the Heatsink...




					h30434.www3.hp.com
				




I'm not seeing any good info either. A w3690 would be cool because the CPU is unlocked.

I don't see any benchmarks for the 3690 in the Z600, highest is x5675. I know the W3690 will work in a Z400v2

It may be possible that the socket is limited to 1 or 2 95W CPU's only.



			z600  - Geekbench Search  - Geekbench Browser


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## Mr Bill (Sep 10, 2020)

juiseman said:


> Z600 with dual X5680 CPU
> 
> 
> Hey there!   I got a later spec Z600 WS here that came with dual X5650 (TDP 95W). I made a good deal and got two X5680 (TDP 130W), and tryed to install those to the WS. System tells me, that the CPU installed needs too much power, and the System got halted.   Is it a Problem with the Heatsink...
> ...


Go here and pick the processor you would like to use, and half way down the page on the right it will give you some popular comparisons. It might even have the info you're looking for on that site, also they ask you to let the ads run on that page, no big deal compared to the abundance of information this person has put together. 




			http://www.cpu-world.com/info/Intel/Intel_Xeon.html


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## Noxman (Sep 10, 2020)

I changed my mind and actually gonna buy two x5675. Gonna use them for some folding and server stuff (learning etc).

Its the easiest way, and I will be happy anyway.


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## juiseman (Sep 11, 2020)

That is a good plan, if you look at the single core difference; its not that much, I'd rather have 2x 5675 myself as I do production stuff.

Plus, you can fit a decent amount of RAM and drives in the Z600's. 

I'm always on the hunt for good prices on Z420's and Z440's. I've found some great deals; pretty much just put an upgraded SSD and CPU and you get a complete computer for $150-$200...you can beat that. I will say that these new Zen 3 CPU's are going to be pretty powerful; so that lowers the price vs performance a little of these used workstations; but I see a lot of value still  But you don't need all that for general computing.


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## sepheronx (Sep 16, 2020)

Hey guys.

I just picked up a HP Z420 with a 1620v2 cpu.

Issue is, it has 16gb of RAM but only 2x8gb sticks.  Is there no way to run it in dual channel?  Otherwise it was set to single channel.

Edit: NVM, figured it out.  The memory configuration on the board vs what manual says was different.  Got it working.


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## silentbogo (Sep 16, 2020)

sepheronx said:


> I just picked up a HP Z420 with a 1620v2 cpu.
> 
> Issue is, it has 16gb of RAM but only 2x8gb sticks. Is there no way to run it in dual channel? Otherwise it was set to single channel.


Just follow the HP official docs


			http://ntsizing.external.hp.com/drvlib/docs/Z420_Memory_Configurations.pdf
		




TARDIS said:


> Well, apparently still on 2011 block. How do I update it? Can I update it?


Only via external flash programmer. I'm not sure if header can be updated via fpt. Did it on my Z620 few months ago. I don't have an Ivy Bridge EP CPU to test it with, but that wasn't my main priority.
I've spliced together a firmware based off Z420v2, and added NVME module. If you wanna risk it, just buy any cheap SPI flash programmer with 300-mil socket, and PM me for binary. You'll need to desolder and solder it back afterwards, so the hot air rework station is a must.


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## sepheronx (Sep 16, 2020)

silentbogo said:


> Just follow the HP official docs
> 
> 
> http://ntsizing.external.hp.com/drvlib/docs/Z420_Memory_Configurations.pdf
> ...



Thanks. Yeah I did check the docs and the ram slots shown on the board mentioned in the doc vs mine was different. But otherwise, got it working. Now need 2x8gb ddr3 1866 more ram (it was what it's got now) for quad channel.


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## silverchair (Sep 16, 2020)

Hi everyone,

Looking for a specific SD card reader for my 800 G1 USDT retro pc console build for a fair price. The part number is HP 742719-001. There is one on ebay listed as brand new for 60 pounds, which is ridiculous for a 10 year old machine. Clearly I don't require a brand new part, if someone has one laying around, would appreciate if he pings me.

Thanks!


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## Caring1 (Sep 17, 2020)

silverchair said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Looking for a specific SD card reader for my 800 G1 USDT retro pc console build for a fair price. The part number is HP 742719-001. There is one on ebay listed as brand new for 60 pounds, which is ridiculous for a 10 year old machine. Clearly I don't require a brand new part, if someone has one laying around, would appreciate if he pings me.
> 
> Thanks!


Generic parts are a lot cheaper, if you require specific OEM parts then you have to pay what you have to pay, especially for an original retro build.


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## xman2007 (Sep 26, 2020)

Just bought a HP z400 for under £60 shipped, its got a Xeon W3520, 8gb DDR3, 1tb, gt640. I'm probably going to buy a W3570 for it unless it will take a 6 core though I'm not sure it will. I'll be putting in a 1060/570 and this will replace my sons sff i3 2c4t gt 1030 sff rig. I'll probably upgrade the ram to 12gb (4GBx3) and throw in his 120gb ssd for Windows and 500gb hdd for 1.5tb space. I think I can recoup the cost of a new gpu or most of it from the sale of his old pc and the gt640 though that might come in handy as a spare. All in all its a great deal for the price. Count me in to the clubhouse 

Couple of questions, is this standard ATX size motherboard or proprietry? same with the PSU, standard 24pin ATX and 4pin CPU or proprietry? as it would be good to swap out the PSU and change the case.


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## juiseman (Sep 29, 2020)

Look at the ram slots; the v2 Z400 should have 6, if it only has 4 ram slots then 3500's series is all it will take as far as I'm aware.

looks like you can go upto a W3580 in the v1 z400.









						Xeon W5590 or W3580 for HP Z400?
					

I want to upgrade my Z400 to something with a higher clock speed than the current W3530. Both the W5590 and W3580 appear to have the same speed, but how is one different from the other in terms of overall performance and compatibility with my system? (I have the Z400 v2 with 6 RAM slots)




					h30434.www3.hp.com


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## silentbogo (Sep 29, 2020)

xman2007 said:


> Couple of questions, is this standard ATX size motherboard or proprietry? same with the PSU, standard 24pin ATX and 4pin CPU or proprietry? as it would be good to swap out the PSU and change the case.


Motherboard size is standard ATX. PSU is the problem - it's custom 24-pin, not the standard ATX.





You can buy an aftermarket adapter or mod your PSU cabling. It's much easier than on newer HP workstations, casue it still uses +5VSB and it's very close to regular ATX. Just need to switch a few wires, no active parts required. 
-5V is not used in most new PSUs (if it is - you can just cut that wire and put a jumper to the nearest ground). The only thing you need to mod, is a pair of pins on a +4 section of ATX connector.


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## xman2007 (Sep 29, 2020)

juiseman said:


> Look at the ram slots; the v2 Z400 should have 6, if it only has 4 ram slots then 3500's series is all it will take as far as I'm aware.
> 
> looks like you can go upto a W3580 in the v1 z400.
> 
> ...




Hey, I have only just seen this reply, guess I should watch the thread to get notifications.

I haven't received the Z400 yet, it's in transit so should be here tomorrow, hopefully it will be the V2, it's odd it's based on the x58 chipset and comes with 4 DIMMs.

also came across this post on HP forums and hopefully I can throw an x5687 or better CPU into it









						Archived - HP Support Community
					

Join the conversation in HP’s Support Community / Forum to find solutions, ask questions, and share tips for HP Notebooks, Printers, Desktops, tablets, more.




					h30434.www3.hp.com
				






silentbogo said:


> Motherboard size is standard ATX. PSU is the problem - it's custom 24-pin, not the standard ATX.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks, I've found this https://www.moddiy.com/products/ATX...dard-ATX-Pinout-Main-Power-Adapter-Cable.html

Can't find too many more of these anywhere, non on amazon UK or ebay, though they do ship worldwide for free so that's not a bad price imo.


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## Mr Bill (Sep 29, 2020)

xman2007 said:


> also came across this post on HP forums and hopefully I can throw an x5687 or better CPU into it.


Why wouldn't you want to use the X5680?



			https://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/866/Intel_Xeon_X5680_vs_Intel_Xeon_X5687.html


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## xman2007 (Sep 29, 2020)

Mr Bill said:


> Why wouldn't you want to use the X5680?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/866/Intel_Xeon_X5680_vs_Intel_Xeon_X5687.html


I guess I could, that's 6 core right and likely the best cpu you could put into the z400?


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## Mr Bill (Sep 29, 2020)

xman2007 said:


> I guess I could, that's 6 core right and likely the best cpu you could put into the z400?


The X5690 would be a "little" better, but not enough difference to justify the extra $50.00 or more you would pay for one. JMO


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## silentbogo (Sep 29, 2020)

xman2007 said:


> I guess I could, that's 6 core right and likely the best cpu you could put into the z400?


Westmere shows its best only on overclocking boards (e.g. decent x58, not that cheap chinese crap that's all over youtube). Without overclock there is no reason to spend double for mere 133MHz bump. It's effectively nothing on that scale. I wanna make one argument in favor of W vs X: W-variants aren't burdened with QPI, so they normally run a bit cooler and have less quirks with boost clocks. 
Also, don't set your expectations too high. My old x5650 OCed to 4.2GHz was nowhere near as fast in gaming and multimedia as puny i3-6100 stock. In today's used market a low-to-mid-range Skylake or a 1st gen Ryzen is a lot better value for money.
Z400 makes a cool "dad" PC, not a cool "son" gaming PC.


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## Mr Bill (Sep 29, 2020)

silentbogo said:


> Also, don't set your expectations too high. My old x5650 OCed to 4.2GHz was nowhere near as fast in gaming and multimedia as puny i3-6100 stock.


I agree, and this is what has keeps me from dropping anymore money into my X58 machine. I have an i5 4590 machine with 16 gig of ram, nothing spectacular, my X58 with i7 920 24 gig of ram is a decent machine, but still not a spunky as my i5 machine. I guess because I'm old, I have a soft spot in my heart for old stuff, but it's not always best, when talking computers.


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## silentbogo (Sep 29, 2020)

Mr Bill said:


> I agree, and this is what has keeps me from dropping anymore money into my X58 machine.


Oh man... That 920 is what's holding you back. 
That P6T Deluxe should be as capable as Rampage II, all you need is to spend $15 on X5650 and OC the crap out of it. No need to go for higher multiplier models, since you get the most gains from FSB clocks anyways. 
My last x58 setup before I parted it out was x5650 running at 3.8GHz daily undervolted, 24GB G.Skill Ripjaws V running around 1600-1800MHz. Winter mode meant 4-4.2GHz @ 1.3V and cranking up RAM all the way up to 2000MHz (that was my glass ceiling on that board, even though it's rated for 2133MHz XMP). Beastly machine, but definitely past its time. I think my Rampage II GENE held its price so well at that time, that it basically paid for my brand new B150 ITX board and a barely used Seasonic 80+ Gold PSU.


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## xman2007 (Sep 29, 2020)

silentbogo said:


> Westmere shows its best only on overclocking boards (e.g. decent x58, not that cheap chinese crap that's all over youtube). Without overclock there is no reason to spend double for mere 133MHz bump. It's effectively nothing on that scale. I wanna make one argument in favor of W vs X: W-variants aren't burdened with QPI, so they normally run a bit cooler and have less quirks with boost clocks.
> Also, don't set your expectations too high. My old x5650 OCed to 4.2GHz was nowhere near as fast in gaming and multimedia as puny i3-6100 stock. In today's used market a low-to-mid-range Skylake or a 1st gen Ryzen is a lot better value for money.
> Z400 makes a cool "dad" PC, not a cool "son" gaming PC.


Hes got a 3rd gen i3 dual core with a gt 1030, moving to a quad with HT as well as a 570/1060 class GPU it will be a night and day difference for him, even better with a 6 core as he has started playing with blender. I'm not chasing 144fps for him likely just high settings and 60fps on fortnite he will be eccstatic as he can only play on low settings right now @1080p and this is a way cheaper upgrade than a Ryzen build, when he's a bit older he will for sure have a newer platform however I wanted to upgrade his fortnite and blender performance without spending £400 on a new build this time round.



Mr Bill said:


> The X5690 would be a "little" better, but not enough difference to justify the extra $50.00 or more you would pay for one. JMO


Yea, I think I will put a x5680 in, another 4GB of RAM and call it a day, final specs will then be x5860, 12GB RAM, 570.1060, 120GB OS SSD, 1TB HDD, 500GB, ive used much worse than that in recent memory for gaming and an everyday PC, I think as long as expectations are realistic and I realise this isn't a top of the line gaming rig, more a budget 1080p capable gaming PC that should be good for 1080/60 with med/high settings in games then I'm happy considering the price I will have paid. All in all excluding the SSD and 500GB HDD from his old computer I will have spent £150, which is good.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 29, 2020)

xman2007 said:


> Hes got a 3rd gen i3 dual core with a gt 1030, moving to a quad with HT as well as a 570/1060 class GPU it will be a night and day difference for him, even better with a 6 core as he has started playing with blender. I'm not chasing 144fps for him likely just high settings and 60fps on fortnite he will be eccstatic as he can only play on low settings right now @1080p and this is a way cheaper upgrade than a Ryzen build, when he's a bit older he will for sure have a newer platform however I wanted to upgrade his fortnite and blender performance without spending £400 on a new build this time round.
> 
> 
> Yea, I think I will put a x5680 in, another 4GB of RAM and call it a day, final specs will then be x5860, 12GB RAM, 570.1060, 120GB OS SSD, 1TB HDD, 500GB, ive used much worse than that in recent memory for gaming and an everyday PC, I think as long as expectations are realistic and I realise this isn't a top of the line gaming rig, more a budget 1080p capable gaming PC that should be good for 1080/60 with med/high settings in games then I'm happy considering the price I will have paid. All in all excluding the SSD and 500GB HDD from his old computer I will have spent £150, which is good.


That's a solid built. I say well done.


----------



## xman2007 (Sep 29, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> That's a solid built. I say well done.


I think so, for the price anyway, it took me the best part of a year to get my current PC to the state it's in right now as money is tight since covid, I sold my main PC last year then built a barebones Ryzen system with Athlon 2200ge, 8GB ddr4 2400, 120GB SSD, no GPU, cheap case, cheap PSU etc just so I could build the foundation and have a PC of sorts to upgrade, since then the only original part inside it is the motherboard


----------



## silentbogo (Sep 29, 2020)

xman2007 said:


> Hes got a 3rd gen i3 dual core with a gt 1030, moving to a quad with HT as well as a 570/1060 class GPU it will be a night and day difference for him, even better with a 6 core as he has started playing with blender.


Maybe as an entry-level blender machine it'll do. Otherwise, something like an i5-3570[regular or S] is a cheap enough option that won't compromise multithreaded performance drastically, but will give a decent 25-30% boost in single-threaded and lightly-threaded perf. In the majority of games that makes all the difference. Plus, he'll keep PCIe 3.0 for a new card (another tiny performance bump) and more or less modern I/O options. One more bonus - most LGA1155 boards can be modded to natively support NVME boot drives. 
Another minus for Westmere is lack of AVX support, which is not only bad for software encoding, but may also gimp some features on Blender (notably Cycles or anything related to raytracing).
CPU costs around $30-35 used (cheaper if you do some digging). I'd give you my spare 2500K or 3470S, but shipping is probably going to be a bitch.

P.S. I have nothing against LGA1366. I'm just trying to suggest what's better(and cheaper long-term).


----------



## Mr Bill (Sep 29, 2020)

silentbogo said:


> Oh man... That 920 is what's holding you back.
> That P6T Deluxe should be as capable as Rampage II, all you need is to spend $15 on X5650 and OC the crap out of it. No need to go for higher multiplier models, since you get the most gains from FSB clocks anyways.


I understand, but I have a good case I would like to keep, and I could probably sell my P6T Deluxe and Ram for at least $125.00 US on OfferUp, that would buy me a decent board, so mostly, all I would be out on a new build is a processor and ddr4, I already have a decent video card, a 750 watt PS in the X58 machine, and since all I do is surf the web and watch YouTube videos, it would be a good upgrade. Yeah, I'm not one that likes to make choices, but with the upgrade comes, USB 3.0 and maybe 3.1 just 2.0 on the X58 board, not that the USB version really makes that big of a difference in my world, but there's probably other improvements like M.2 and etc. I can utilize on a newer board.

Here a case like mine I would want to keep.


----------



## xman2007 (Sep 29, 2020)

silentbogo said:


> Maybe as an entry-level blender machine it'll do. Otherwise, something like an i5-3570[regular or S] is a cheap enough option that won't compromise multithreaded performance drastically, but will give a decent 25-30% boost in single-threaded and lightly-threaded perf. In the majority of games that makes all the difference. Plus, he'll keep PCIe 3.0 for a new card (another tiny performance bump) and more or less modern I/O options. One more bonus - most LGA1155 boards can be modded to natively support NVME boot drives.
> Another minus for Westmere is lack of AVX support, which is not only bad for software encoding, but may also gimp some features on Blender (notably Cycles or anything related to raytracing).
> CPU costs around $30-35 used (cheaper if you do some digging). I'd give you my spare 2500K or 3470S, but shipping is probably going to be a bitch.
> 
> P.S. I have nothing against LGA1366. I'm just trying to suggest what's better(and cheaper long-term).



Yea i did consider upgrading his current machine though the cost of a better sff gpu (1650) would've cost the entire budget of what I've already spent on the z400, GPU, CPU upgrade to 6 core then I would have had to spend more on a 3570/3770, ideally wouldve like a 3770k though they fetch double the price of the 3570 in the used market about £70+ and then I would have had to consider his PSU being a SFF machine, I'm sure it's about 250w which is fine for the i3 and gt 1030 though may be pushing it for the upgrade so it would have been another headache, do I find a higher wattage compatible SFF PSU, or attempt to put it all into an ATX case etc.


----------



## silentbogo (Sep 29, 2020)

Mr Bill said:


> Here a case like mine I would want to keep.


That's a cool nostalgia case. I had a similar no-name chinese case back in a day, though much crappier than Alienware one from build quality standpoint, it had built-in segmented LED display with fan RPM indicator and few temperature probes. Got it back in 2005 and got stuck with it for nearly 10 years. Now it's still running my stepdad's rig. 
... and it's hotrod red!



xman2007 said:


> Yea i did consider upgrading his current machine though the cost of a better sff gpu (1650) would've cost the entire budget of what I've already spent on the z400


Oh, an SFF... and having Z400 on hands already complicates things as is...
Then just go with whatever you've already planned.
If anything, you can sell all of that stuff a bit later and get, let's say a pair of used Haswell-based workstations. Something like an older HP Prodesk 600 or Lenovo Thinkstation runs for under $150 for the whole system nowadays (or ~$100 as a barebone w/ CPU). For $200 you can probably splurge on complete HP Z620 or maybe even something newer. One of my suppliers is bringing over from US some cheap-ass Dell T5810 workstations this fall, I might get one if I manage to sell some of my crap.


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## xman2007 (Sep 29, 2020)

silentbogo said:


> That's a cool nostalgia case. I had a similar no-name chinese case back in a day, though much crappier than Alienware one from build quality standpoint, it had built-in segmented LED display with fan RPM indicator and few temperature probes. Got it back in 2005 and got stuck with it for nearly 10 years. Now it's still running my stepdad's rig.
> ... and it's hotrod red!
> 
> 
> ...


Some good info, I'll be keeping my eyes out on similar workstation systems for sure


----------



## xman2007 (Oct 6, 2020)

juiseman said:


> Look at the ram slots; the v2 Z400 should have 6, if it only has 4 ram slots then 3500's series is all it will take as far as I'm aware.
> 
> looks like you can go upto a W3580 in the v1 z400.
> 
> ...


Update, seems I got the v2 version with 6 ram slots, 2 are populated with 4gb (8gb) am I right in thinking these boards will run either dual or triple channel as its x58? That way I'll just add 4gb for triple channel and be done. 

Not even fired it up yet so I can't comment on anything else rn


----------



## juiseman (Oct 7, 2020)

yes 3 matched should put it in tri-channel . cool, you can use 3600/5600 CPU's now


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## xman2007 (Oct 9, 2020)

juiseman said:


> yes 3 matched should put it in tri-channel . cool, you can use 3600/5600 CPU's now


I think I'm gonna throw in a x5670 into it as it's 95w compared to the 130w X5680 and about half to 1/3 of the price


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## phreich (Nov 14, 2020)

Hi all,

I am new to this forum, and found it when searching for information on HP Z workstations.  I thought my adventure in upgrading to a new machine (eventually winding up with an HP Z460 workstation), might be interesting to you folks, and helpful to some in that they can leverage off of what I've done.

*My HP Z workstation upgrade adventure:*

Some background:
I have been building my own media PCs for years (since the 1990s), and was looking for a replacement for my Core I7 860 media machine that is getting a bit "long in the tooth".  I typically buy used hardware for my upgrades, a generation or two back, but at the high-end.  That process has usually given me robust machines that generally last me for about 5 years before I have to start the process over.  I do some periodic incremental upgrades in between these major upgrades (usually drives, additional memory, upgraded video card, etc).  I also re-use as much as I can from the previous build.

I planned on reusing my:

1Tb SSD (bought during the 2020 Amazon Prime Day sale), 
Nvidia GTX 1060 3GB graphics card (bought on Amazon during the 2018 black friday sale), 
2 4tb Enterprise SAS hard drives that I run as RAID1 (bought in 2017 from Amazon Warehouse Deals for $65 each),,
HP commercial SAS Raid controller (bought used on Ebay for $25)
blu-ray writer, 
keyboard and trackball,
and maybe my ATX case.  
I planned on selling the rest:

The motherboard, 
2nd gen quad core Core-I7 processor (860), 
500W power supply, 
usb2 based 8-in-one card reader,
and 8gb of DDR3 memory.
So I started looking around for the best "bang-for-the-buck" for high-end hardware a couple of generations back so I could avoid having to pay current "new" prices.  Since I had a decent graphics card that can easily handle the 4K HDR streaming and 4K HDR blu-ray playback I want, I didn't need to pay for an expensive Core I7 with it's embedded graphics.  So I got to looking at Xeon processors that would do what I wanted and settled on the E5-2640 V3 8 core processor (16 logical cores with hyperthreading) that's rated at 90watts.  This processor choice requires a Socket LGA 2011-3 server/workstation motherboard.

I started looking at motherboards and processors.  The Xeon V3 processors were coming way down in price, but the stand-alone Socket LGA 2011-3 motherboards were still fetching fairly high prices. So I started looking for used workstations.  

As complete or bare-bones "off lease" used systems, the prices were much lower than buying used CPU, motherboard and power supply.  The reason for this is that businesses buy or lease these high-end workstations for 3 years, until the 3 year on-site warranty runs out, and then e-recyclers/resellers sell them for very little on Ebay and Amazon.  

Used server RAM (which these workstations use) is also cheaper than used regular non-server RAM.  I think this is because there is so much RAM installed in servers and workstations, and companies upgrade their servers and workstations quickly, and so the market gets flooded with used server RAM that cannot be used in "normal" desktop machines.  When new, Server RAM is higher priced than normal RAM because it has higher quality specifications and it has embedded error detection and correction circuitry (ECC) and buffering /register circuitry both of which make server RAM more reliable but with a slight (1 clock cycle) speed penalty due to the buffer/register.

At first I focused on Dell workstations, but I then discovered that the HP Z series workstations that sold from 2015 to 2019 were cheaper and often offered as good or better hardware than the equivalent Dell workstations.  These HP workstations use a motherboard with the Intel C612 chipset, and support both the V3 AND V4 Xeon processor families and both regular DDR4 and DDR4L server ram. 

The Z440 was the lowest priced with bare-bones systems selling on Ebay for around $150 plus shipping, followed by the Z460 selling bare bones for around $250 plus shipping.  The Z460 can work with either a single processor or dual processors (with a 2nd processor daughterboard)  The Z480s are rarer and are higher priced.  These are all commercial grade workstations and are built like tanks -- and so are heavy, so the cost of shipping is usually more than $45 if they have to be shipped any significant distance.

I first found and purchased a Z440 workstation with an E5-2620 V3 6 core processor (12 logical cores with hyperthreading) that had a motherboard Bios issue for $125 on Ebay from an E-recycler about 120 miles away, the only things missing were memory and drives. I found a great deal for 32Gb of slightly used DDR4 server memory -- 4 matching 8gb RDIMMs of InnoDisk registered ECC server memory for $70 on Ebay, and figured that even if I had to replace the motherboard, I would be looking at a decent machine for less than $250.  I would see if I could live with the slower 6 core processor -- if not, a used 8 core E5-2640 V3 could be found for less than $70.

The motherboard wasn't salvageable, but I noticed that the Z440 and Z460 are basically the same motherboard, with the exception that the Z460 has a set of sockets for the daughterboard, and 4 less memory slots (these 4 slots are moved to the daughter board for use with the 2nd CPU).  Pretty much everything else was the same except the rear case fan pinouts and the onboard speaker header.  (The Z440 motherboard has unpopulated places on the board where these components exist on the Z460.)

I found a Z460 motherboard from a local e-recycler for $59 (local pickup -- so no shipping charge) and was planning on installing it in the Z440, but then happened upon an Ebay listing for a Z460 that booted to BIOS, but had an issue with two of the QPI Links that are used for communication between the 2 CPUs. Since I already had gotten the cheap Z460 motherboard, I thought that maybe, just maybe, the Z460 workstation's motherboard might be okay if used with just one processor, and I might get a fully functioning dual CPU Z460 AND a fully functioning Z440 by installing the new Z460 motherboard into the Z460 workstation, and using the otherwise working Z460 motherboard in the Z440 as a single processor motherboard.

So I bought the "broken" Z460 for $252+$46 shipping, $298 total.  It was also not a barebone system and was only missing a hard drive and memory, and did include two E5-2620 V3 6 core processors and the 2nd processor daughterboard .  

When it arrived, I added a couple of the sticks of the DDR4 server RAM and a hard drive for testing and confirmed the machine booted into the bios with QPI errors.  I then removed the daughter board and the machine booted all the way up!  I then installed the new Z460 motherboard I had purchased earlier, and it booted up too.  I then crossed my fingers and reinstalled the 2nd CPU daughterboard with a stick of server RAM, and it booted up successfully!  I had lucked out, and the QPI issues were on the original Z460 motherboard, and that motherboard worked fine with a single CPU.  

There wasn't much risk involved, regardless of how the testing turned out.  If this hadn't worked out the way I had hoped, I would have just bought a replacement Z440 motherboard for around $70 on Ebay to make the Z440 functional, or if the 2nd CPU daughterboard was bad, then I could run the Z460 as a single processor system and use the other Z460 motherboard in the Z440 as originally planned.

So, in the end, I have a working Z460 dual processor workstation, AND a working Z440 workstation for less than $400.  Both of the Z workstations came with a slim-line DVD re-writer optical drive (basically a laptop drive).  I plan to sell the working Z440 to a nephew for $250 for his son's use, which will bring my cost for the Z460 and the memory for it down to around $225.  I really don't need the 2nd processor, so I may sell the daughterboard on Ebay -- they are going for over $100 now, which would bring the cost of the Z460 machine down to around $125.

I think this machine will last me for another 5 years or so until I do another major upgrade.

One thing I like about this kind of upgrade strategy is that it is especially eco-friendly.  It is fully re-using/re-purposing otherwise obsolete high-end equipment.  The power supplies on both of these computers are >90% efficient, so they won't draw anywhere near their full capacity (750watts for the Z440 and 925watts for the Z460) unless the systems are fully loaded and all processors are running at 100% utilization.  If I don't run the second processor daughterboard in the Z460, it will draw less power too.....  And my existing system parts will be sold and reused as well.  Nothing is going into the landfill, and no new hardware was manufactured to make my upgraded system.  I love being part of what is now being called the "Circular Economy".

I plan now to resell my existing system as a fully operational Windows 10 Pro machine with a previously used 256Gb SSD, a used 2Tb hard drive, a 1Gb ATI/AMD video card with displayport/HDMI output and a DVD rewriter optical drive.  Since it was a top-of-the-line quad Core I7 machine back in it's day (around 2009), it will still be faster than any current Core I3 and some Core I5 machines.  Heck, after that gets sold, I may wind up getting the upgraded machine at no cost, or even a little profit!

One other upgrade I am doing will be to replace my existing blu-ray writer optical drive with one that can read the 4K blu-ray discs (they call these drives "4k friendly").  My existing one can't.  I found one on Amazon Warehouse Deals for $59, and hopefully can sell mine for $35-$40 to someone who doesn't care about 4K, but wants 1080P blu-ray capability.  

*There is just one part of this upgrade saga left to tell -- windows activation issues....  *
In my research into this generation of HP's Z workstations, I found an HP service bulletin that mentioned that there was a known issue with installing the HP Windows 10 Pro OEM recovery image on these machines.  The service bulletin mentions that, at first, the windows activation will fail, but to close the window, restart the machine, and then re-attempt activiation and it should work the second time and it will be a Windows 10 Pro for workstations license.  I figured that the Z440 workstation must have originally had a windows 7 or 8 or 10 pro license, and so I should be able to download the Windows 10 ISO image from HPs cloud recovery repository, and activate it, since the OEM installation and activation checks the BIOS for validity, and the upgrade from windows 7/8 pro to windows 10 pro was free.  I logged onto HP's cloud recovery platform, entered the workstation's model and serial number and was allowed to download the Windows 10 Pro recovery ISO for this workstation.  

Well, it didn't work.  It installed and booted to windows 10 Pro, but would not activate, even following the instructions on the bulletin.

I called HP support to see if they could help, and a very nice fellow spent quite a bit of time with me trying to resolve it.  He verified that the HP serial number and product build byte in the bios was correct and matched the serial number, and had me update the BIOS and try to activate it again, and then told me he would escalate the issue, but that I should try contacting Microsoft support to see if they could help.  

I then called Microsoft support, and a very nice fellow listened to the story and had me read him the CD Key and the product key from within windows, and then did some research and told me the error I was receiving was because the corporate license that HP had issued the OEM licenses on for that product key had had too many activations, and that I should contact HP about this, as it was their problem.

Soooo, I called HP support back again, and got another nice fellow to look into this.  He listened to what I had done on the previous calls with HP and with Microsoft, and was getting ready to re-escalate the issue, when he had the inspiration to fully "decode" the product build byte in the BIOS, which pointed to the cause of the problem.  It turns out that this workstation had been ordered with Linux and not Windows, and that was the reason for the activation error.  The reason the activation system thought the CD key had been activated too many times was because a dummy CD key was used for these non-windows machines in the BIOS, that never had ANY activations, and wasn't supposed to activate.  

However, HP's cloud recovery ISO system, while it does ask for the system model and serial number, it doesn't burrow down far enough into the original build data for the serial number to check to see whether the system had an HP OEM windows installation or not.  Their cloud recovery system sees that it is a valid serial number and then allows you to download the HP Windows recovery ISO image, and that image does install completely.  However, once you have installed it, all you get if the workstation didn't ship with OEM windows is an cryptic error code that points both HP and Microsoft support staff in the wrong direction.

I requested the HP support person open a suggestion/complaint with his superiors requesting that the cloud recovery system do a little more thorough checking of the serial number to determine whether or not to allow the Windows recovery ISO to be downloaded, and to give the appropriate message when it determines that an HP OEM license hasn't been issued for that serial number.  I also suggested he add some entries in their troubleshooting database to address this issue in the mean-time.  I am sure that I am not the first person to run up against this issue, and had either of these suggestions been implemented it would have saved multiple man-hours of wasted time, mine as well as HP support and Microsoft support.

The reason I wanted to try to activate the HP OEM Windows 10 Pro on the workstation was to get the Windows 10 Pro for Workstations OEM license.  It offers more of the functionality of Windows 10 Server edition, and allows for more CPUs, cores and memory.  At first I thought this was necessary to run a 2nd CPU, but it turns out that the regular Windows 10 Pro already allows for 2 CPUs with multiple cores each, and more RAM than I ever would need.

I wound up transferring one of my existing Windows 7 Pro retail keys to the Z440 workstation, and all is working fine now.  

Note, while Microsoft's original "free upgrade" time has elapsed, in fact you can still install and activate Windows 10 using a valid Windows 7 or 8 CD key.  This is true for both the retail and OEM versions.  However you can only _transfer_ "retail" keys from one machine to another.  "Oem" keys are only valid for the original system and _cannot be transferred_. 

The Z460 workstation had an HP OEM Windows 7 Pro key on it, and I was able to install the HP Windows 10 Pro recovery ISO that I had problems with earlier on the Z440 workstation on that machine and activate it using that CD key.  So it now has a valid Windows 10 Pro OEM license using that original windows 7 pro OEM cd key.

So ends my Z workstation upgrade saga.  

In summary, I think these Z440 and Z460 machines can be a great bargain, and are somewhat futureproof in that they are able to run the V4 processors that are only one generation behind the current Xeons.  However, those V4 processors are still selling for failrly high prices.  In a year or two I expect their prices will drop sharply and will be available for what the V3 processors are selling for now.  The main reason to consider upgrading is that the V4 processors have more cores than the equivalent V3 processors, can access higher speed RAM, and they have some higher "turbo" mode capabilities than the V3s have.  The base speed and power useage are about the same as the V3.

I hope this writeup has been both entertaining and informative, and helps some folks who are considering purchasing one of these workstations.

I hope you all are staying safe and healthy during these strange times....

Philip


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## sepheronx (Jan 17, 2021)

So a while ago I started a thread about my GTX 970 not working in this system.  I get (I think) 4 red blinks on the button indicating video output issue.  

Anyway, I happened to pick up a R9 390X and put it in, to the same issue (I tested the R9 390X in another machine and it worked fine).  So now I dont think my GTX 970 is a problem (now waiting for some Thermalright TF8 to arrive so I can repaste the card).

I tested so far:

- *Different GPU's*.  Only an old, low power GPU like the Quadro K2000 works (boots to windows).
- *Different PSU* - This one I figured would fix the issue if a low power Quadro works.  Nope.  Tried a 550W Coolermaster Gold PSU (I used this for another system that I recently sold but kept the PSU for other builds.  User wanted a bigger PSU).  So I get still same issue.
- *Different CPU* - I cant remember whats inside now.  A 2620 I think.  But nope, same issue.  Tried the 1603 it came with, and nope.
- *Tested Ram Modules*. Nope.

So I believe it is the Motherboard of course.  And it occured to me, it happened after I updated the motherboard bios that this issue came up.  Now I am wondering if the bios may have botched something with the PCIe Lanes that causes the system to freak out with having something that exceeds 75W on the PCIE lane?

Any suggestions?


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jan 17, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> So a while ago I started a thread about my GTX 970 not working in this system.  I get (I think) 4 red blinks on the button indicating video output issue.
> 
> Anyway, I happened to pick up a R9 390X and put it in, to the same issue (I tested the R9 390X in another machine and it worked fine).  So now I dont think my GTX 970 is a problem (now waiting for some Thermalright TF8 to arrive so I can repaste the card).
> 
> ...



What are the system specs?  You may have posted already, but I honestly just don't feel like searching them out.


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## silentbogo (Jan 17, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> So a while ago I started a thread about my GTX 970 not working in this system.  I get (I think) 4 red blinks on the button indicating video output issue.
> 
> Anyway, I happened to pick up a R9 390X and put it in, to the same issue (I tested the R9 390X in another machine and it worked fine).  So now I dont think my GTX 970 is a problem (now waiting for some Thermalright TF8 to arrive so I can repaste the card).
> 
> ...


The only thing I could suggest, is trying different PCIe slot.
Encountered this not too long ago. Moved my GT1030 to another machine and replaced it with a rare Zotac GT710 with a physical PCIe X1 connector (needed to free up some PCIe 3.0 slots for NVME SSD and 10GbE NIC). Got 4 blinks in the original PCIe x16 slot, but moving it to x1 slot solved the issue. Those machines can be finicky. Only took me 5-6 attempts to find a right spot for my SSD, so it can run at full PCIe 3.0 x4, but fortunately no issues with GPUs at all (ran GTX750Ti, GT1030, GTX1060).


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## sepheronx (Jan 17, 2021)

silentbogo said:


> The only thing I could suggest, is trying different PCIe slot.
> Encountered this not too long ago. Moved my GT1030 to another machine and replaced it with a rare Zotac GT710 with a physical PCIe X1 connector (needed to free up some PCIe 3.0 slots for NVME SSD and 10GbE NIC). Got 4 blinks in the original PCIe x16 slot, but moving it to x1 slot solved the issue. Those machines can be finicky. Only took me 5-6 attempts to find a right spot for my SSD, so it can run at full PCIe 3.0 x4, but fortunately no issues with GPUs at all (ran GTX750Ti, GT1030, GTX1060).



The last x16 port works, but the issue is that its the bottom of the case so the GPU is not getting any air and thus runs hot.

This was at least on the GTX 970.  And I also assumed the fans were not spinning.  So I have to test the GTX 970 on another machine.  The issue is I would be selling this machine so I am not excited to deal with an angry customer if the x16 port doesn't work.



Aaron_Henderson said:


> What are the system specs?  You may have posted already, but I honestly just don't feel like searching them out.



Xeon 2620
600W Delta PSU
16GB DDR3 1066 RAM
HP Z420 motherboard
HP Z420 case
500GB Adata SU800 SSD
R9 390X


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jan 17, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> The last x16 port works, but the issue is that its the bottom of hte case so the GPU is not getting any air and thus runs hot.
> 
> This was at least on the GTX 970.  And I also assumed the fans were not spinning.  So I have to test the GTX 970 on another machine.  The issue is I would be selling this machine so I am not excited to deal with an angry customer if the x16 port doesn't work.
> 
> ...


Have you checked in the BIOS settings?  Maybe there is a setting to disable/enable power delivery through the PCIe slot...probably not, but hey.  Have you tried cleaning the PCIe slot?  I've had trouble with PCIe slots giving me issues randomly, and this has sometimes been effective - using a soft brush to clean inside the slot, dousing the slot with isopropyl alcohol, and soft brush again after the alcohol has evaporated. Also...though it's never solved the issue for me, but the CPU socket could be suspect as well...are all of the pins good and straight?  Wouldn't hurt to clean the CPU socket either...I suggest being more careful than me, but I also do the "soft brush+alcohol" on the CPU socket sometimes too.  But I've only ever done it for issues with RAM slots, but had success.  Have a look around the PCIe slot for shorts (front and back of board), bulging caps, "cooked" components.


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## sepheronx (Jan 17, 2021)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> Have you checked in the BIOS settings?  Maybe there is a setting to disable/enable power delivery through the PCIe slot...probably not, but hey.  Have you tried cleaning the PCIe slot?  I've had trouble with PCIe slots giving me issues randomly, and this has sometimes been effective - using a soft brush to clean inside the slot, dousing the slot with isopropyl alcohol, and soft brush again after the alcohol has evaporated. Also...though it's never solved the issue for me, but the CPU socket could be suspect as well...are all of the pins good and straight?  Wouldn't hurt to clean the CPU socket either...I suggest being more careful than me, but I also do the "soft brush+alcohol" on the CPU socket sometimes too.  But I've only ever done it for issues with RAM slots, but had success.  Have a look around the PCIe slot for shorts (front and back of board), bulging caps, "cooked" components.


already did all of those a while back.  I think it was I and silent talking before hand.

I checked thoroughly all the pins.  AOK.  Checked the PCIE and cleaned it.  Same issue.

As I said, happened as soon as I did a bios update on the motherboard.  Since then, issue with first x16 slot.  Could be a coincidence.  But rather strange one.

At this point, I am thinking I will do another bid on a z420 (I picked this up for $60 CAD for the system without HDD and GPU).  I will just wait till next bid or offer for less than $100 and I will simply swap mobo's.  And then re-sell the Case and everything else to get money back.

For now, I am waiting on a Dell T1650 and the front panel adapters, the system is going into another case and I will be selling that.


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jan 17, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> already did all of those a while back.  I think it was I and silent talking before hand.
> 
> I checked thoroughly all the pins.  AOK.  Checked the PCIE and cleaned it.  Same issue.
> 
> ...



Sounds like you've put in enough time trying to work it already...probably a good idea to get another board, like you mentioned.  Personally, because I have a ton of time on my hands (disabled), I wouldn't give up on it yet...visually, if  nothing seems to be physically wrong with it, you can usually get it working right again.  Sometimes though, you just end up wasting a lot of time.  It's tough to figure out when to cut your loses.  I guess I'd probably flash the BIOS a bunch more times, clean the entire board again, and inspect with magnifying glass...that's about all I've got for ideas right now.  The Dell T1650 case swap sounds interesting...I'm sure you'll give us some pics over in the Dell Workstation thread...right?


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## sepheronx (Jan 17, 2021)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> Sounds like you've put in enough time trying to work it already...probably a good idea to get another board, like you mentioned.  Personally, because I have a ton of time on my hands (disabled), I wouldn't give up on it yet...visually, if  nothing seems to be physically wrong with it, you can usually get it working right again.  Sometimes though, you just end up wasting a lot of time.  It's tough to figure out when to cut your loses.  I guess I'd probably flash the BIOS a bunch more times, clean the entire board again, and inspect with magnifying glass...that's about all I've got for ideas right now.  The Dell T1650 case swap sounds interesting...I'm sure you'll give us some pics over in the Dell Workstation thread...right?


Yeah. It's gonna be a Frankenstein creation.

I got a thermaltake S300 case, Cooler aster MWE 550 Gold PSU, the t1650 Mobo, su800 ssd and the R9 390x.

The t1650 has an e3 1275 v2 cpu, 8gb ddr3 ram, case, PSU, no HDD. Some Quadro GPU. Got it for $160 cad.  I'll have to get another stick of ECC 8gb to make it 16gb and dual channel.

I'm hoping to get at least $600 cad ($470USD) for it.  Will thoroughly test it in games.

If the HP Z420 was working, I would have used that for the r9 390x and sell it for $500 CAD and then use my GTX 1070 in the T1650 and sell that for $600.  But, oh well.


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## nzben (Jan 22, 2021)

Hi.

My son was recently given a Z400 workstation. Came with W3550 CPU, Titan X 12GB GPU, 24GB RAM, 256SSD & a bunch of 3TB HDDs. We have done a few upgrades including a 700W power supply to run the Titan properly, added a front fan, Wifi & Sata3 cards, and upgraded to a X5687. The RAM is now running at 1333Mhz, but the configuration is all 6 slots filled with 4GB sticks. Question is, given that 16GB Ram would probably be fine would there be any advantage to removing 2 X 4GB sticks to allow triple channel? I'm not too familiar with how that all works.

With the current setup he is able to get 1080 @ around 90-100fps in the highest settings on his games. I've Under-clocked the Titan X to the lowest settings using the MSI app (both GPU and GPU memory) and it didn't effect the frame speed too much, and he runs at set 60fps without issues.

Thanks.


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## lexluthermiester (Jan 22, 2021)

nzben said:


> Question is, given that 16GB Ram would probably be fine would there be any advantage to removing 2 X 4GB sticks to allow triple channel? I'm not too familiar with how that all works.


Yes, you would increase your RAM bandwidth by 50%. Alternatively you could find a matching pair of 4GB DIMMs on Ebay or Amazon and upgrade to 24GB in triple channel. I would personally go the second option, but if money is tight, removing one DIMM and shifting another to a slot in the third channel would be a solid choice.

BTW, welcome to TPU!


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## nzben (Jan 22, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Yes, you would increase your RAM bandwidth by 50%. Alternatively you could find a matching pair of 4GB DIMMs on Ebay or Amazon and upgrade to 24GB in triple channel. I would personally go the second option, but if money is tight, removing one DIMM and shifting another to a slot in the third channel would be a solid choice.
> 
> BTW, welcome to TPU!


Thanks, looking back at my post I might be wrong, but just to clarify I have 6 X slots with matching 4GB sticks in each, so 6 X 4GB = 24GB. I've just had a look at the HP specs and this is showing as a "Best" configuration.


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## lexluthermiester (Jan 22, 2021)

nzben said:


> Thanks, looking back at my post I might be wrong, but just to clarify I have 6 X slots with matching 4GB sticks in each, so 6 X 4GB = 24GB. I've just had a look at the HP specs and this is showing as a "Best" configuration.


Yuppers. So if you have 4x4GB then you just need to get a 2x4GB kit to fill in the last two slots for a total or 24GB, which will of course enable triple channel.


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## nzben (Jan 22, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Yuppers. So if you have 4x4GB then you just need to get a 2x4GB kit to fill in the last two slots for a total or 24GB, which will of course enable triple channel.


Thats what it already is, 6 X 4GB.


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## lexluthermiester (Jan 23, 2021)

nzben said:


> Thats what it already is, 6 X 4GB.


Cool, so just get yourself 2 more matching 4GB DIMMS and you'll be rockin!


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## nzben (Jan 27, 2021)

Hi another question, we have the chance of trading our z400 with X5687 & 24gb RAM for a z440 with an 1620 v3 processor and 32gb RAM. There will be some $$ involved but fairly minimal. I'm aware that there are advantages such as the RAM is faster, SATA 3, etc. CPU benchmark reports seem to be fairly ambiguous between the 2 CPUs, would we expect to see much difference?


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## lexluthermiester (Jan 27, 2021)

nzben said:


> Hi another question, we have the chance of trading our z400 with X5687 & 24gb RAM for a z440 with an 1620 v3 processor and 32gb RAM. There will be some $$ involved but fairly minimal. I'm aware that there are advantages such as the RAM is faster, SATA 3, etc. CPU benchmark reports seem to be fairly ambiguous between the 2 CPUs, would we expect to see much difference?


How much $? If it's less than $100, go for it, the return will be worth it.


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## sepheronx (Jan 27, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> How much $? If it's less than $100, go for it, the return will be worth it.


I would say its worth more than $100 depending on how much the individual initially paid.

Right now, I was accepted for $75 for a Z420.  But cant seem to send it to cart and now the page of the product is gone.  So I contacted the company to see if something is up.  Same unit is on their ebay page for more money and so I offered $90.  Usually this company is really solid so I dunno what is the case.  I sent a email to them.

Also offered $100 CAD for a Lenovo Thinkstation S30.

I just cant seem to find Z420's of the V2 models lately.  Seem to be rare.  Z440's here are way too expensive.


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## nzben (Jan 27, 2021)

We we ended up getting it. Added bonus was that it came with a 700W power supply, front fan assembly and a 512GB Z Turbo drive. Transferred our existing GPU and Wifi card and its good to go. A noticeable increase in speed, and significantly quieter.


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jan 27, 2021)

nzben said:


> We we ended up getting it. Added bonus was that it came with a 700W power supply, front fan assembly and a 512GB Z Turbo drive. Transferred our existing GPU and Wifi card and its good to go. A noticeable increase in speed, and significantly quieter.



Might not make a difference to you, but the 1620V3 has AVX instruction set extension, while the X5687 (or any other X58 CPU) does not.  Some software won't run without the proper instruction set, or just run better with them.


----------



## drejtori69 (Mar 5, 2021)

Hello,

This question is about a HP Z230.
Have anybody tried installing an Intel 5th gen(Broadwell CPU) in HP Z230. Officially this Workstation only supports 4th gen intel CPUs but also the Chipset of this PC officially supports 5th gen CPUs.
If Anybody have tried this or maybe there is someone that has access to this 2 parts and can try that.
The reason i am asking, is because the 5th gen has eDRAM (L4 cache) in it and it works as a buffer for RAM and according to this article from anandtech :








						A Broadwell Retrospective Review in 2020: Is eDRAM Still Worth It?
					






					www.anandtech.com
				



it Should provide a nice boost in certain applications and games.

Thanx in advance.


----------



## KLiKzg (Mar 28, 2021)

Just going to post here that recently got HP DeskPro 600 workstations, as a "donation".
They are prepped for delivery, but recent COVID-19 situation got us little halted.

They have been updated with latest Win10 & updates, ready to be shipped to University.
A company donated to non-profit organization that we work with, only to be prepared & delivered to students & schools or universities here in Croatia.
As you may have heard, a powerful earthquake shook ground near Sisak & Petrinja in Croatia on 28th Dec.
From that moment, with my fiancee & business partners we donated:

2 camping houses, for accomodation
equipment for renovation in the amount of 3.000€
22 laptops to students which have red or yellow marking on their houses
10 computers to kinder-garden & school in town of Hrvatska kostajnica, where average wage is around 500€
All that can be found here on web page of Play4Life.hr. Most of the students got laptops with cameras, to keep up with the classes. While some of them are finishing, so need a laptop to work final papers on.


----------



## KLiKzg (Mar 30, 2021)

Anybody know how to get rid of "error 512" for a chassis fan missing?
Can't find that in never version of BIOS for HP ProDesk  490 G1.

thx,


----------



## silentbogo (Mar 30, 2021)

KLiKzg said:


> Anybody know how to get rid of "error 512" for a chassis fan missing?


Do you have a rear fan? If not, you can install any regular PWM fan and the problem should go away.
If you don't want to wait, or you have some other limitations, you may try and install a jumper between PWM and TACH pins on the rear fan header ("control" and "sense" on the following image). 
It will make the error go away from the cold start, but it may reappear on reboots or if your PC was already warmed up.


----------



## KLiKzg (Mar 30, 2021)

As those are donations, so will not "short circuit" the fan. & not going to store to get one either.

But those HP are always "some special kind of Bimbo", always acting up.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Mar 30, 2021)

KLiKzg said:


> As those are donations, so will not "short circuit" the fan. & not going to store to get one either.
> 
> But those HP are always "some special kind of Bimbo", always acting up.


HP is not alone in that. Dells and Lenovos do it too.


----------



## Greenslade (Jun 15, 2021)

Hi everyone i am new on here.

I have just bought a HPZ230. off eBAY and saw that you can add a Thunderbolt 2 PCIe card. I looked on HP site and it said it was not supported on Windows 10, it mentions 2015 then at the bottom it has this year's date, Is it still the case that Thunderbolt 2 does not work Windows 10 in June 2021?


----------



## 95Viper (Jun 15, 2021)

Greenslade said:


> have just bought a HPZ230. off eBAY and saw that you can add a Thunderbolt 2 PCIe card


Hi, these links below may be of help.
Make sure the card you get fits the type of case ( Tower, Small Form Factor, etc. ) you have, also, make sure they have the Windows 10 drivers for the model number of the card you choose.

HP Z230, Z420, Z620 and Z820 Workstation PCs - Installing the Thunderbolt 2 PCIe Card
HP Thunderbolt-2 PCIe 1-port I/O Card F3F43AT !!!! Windows 10 Driver ???


----------



## silentbogo (Jun 15, 2021)

Greenslade said:


> I looked on HP site and it said it was not supported on Windows 10, it mentions 2015 then at the bottom it has this year's date, Is it still the case that Thunderbolt 2 does not work Windows 10 in June 2021?


They have a manual for installation on Z230, so it should be compatible. My Z620 is also listed, but no driver. 
You can try and download a Thunderbolt 2 driver from Z640 page or intel website, I'm sure it's the same driver for all systems. It can only be what, DSL3310 or DSL3510L? Also, most of Intel chips are supported in Win10 OOB, which might be the reason they've never updated the download page for older systems.


----------



## Greenslade (Jun 18, 2021)

silentbogo said:


> They have a manual for installation on Z230, so it should be compatible. My Z620 is also listed, but no driver.
> You can try and download a Thunderbolt 2 driver from Z640 page or intel website, I'm sure it's the same driver for all systems. It can only be what, DSL3310 or DSL3510L? Also, most of Intel chips are supported in Win10 OOB, which might be the reason they've never updated the download page for older systems.


Thunderbolt AIC PCI-E Card inklusive Low Profile Blende GPIO DP KabelDoes this look like the one?The guy is in Germany so have to take chance whether or not is the right one.​Thunderbolt 2 AIC Falcon Ridge
TB2 according to the number MS-4361 and the HP logo on the back. See also here:








						HP Thunderbolt-2 PCIe 1-Port I/O Card
					

Buy HP Thunderbolt-2 PCIe 1-Port I/O Card featuring 20 Gb/s Bi-Directional, Daisy-Chain Support, PCIe Motherboard Connector, Compatible with HP Z Series Workstations, Windows 7 & Windows 8 Compatible. Review HP null




					www.bhphotovideo.com
				








						HP Thunderbolt-2 PCIe 1-port I/O Card Software and Driver Downloads | HP® Customer Support
					

Download the latest drivers, firmware, and software for your HP Thunderbolt-2 PCIe 1-port I/O Card.This is HP’s official website that will help automatically detect and download the correct drivers free of cost for your HP Computing and Printing products for Windows and Mac operating system.




					support.hp.com
				



Your board should have the GPIO connector and a bios supporting TB.


----------



## silentbogo (Jun 18, 2021)

Greenslade said:


> Thunderbolt 2 AIC Falcon Ridge
> TB2 according to the number MS-4361 and the HP logo on the back


I think it's the same as supermicro adapter. Look for DSL5320/5520 driver.



Greenslade said:


> Your board should have the GPIO connector and a bios supporting TB.


For HP it should be any Zx20 v2 board or Zx30+. Just checked my modded Z620 v1 BIOS, and it does have thunderbolt modules listed in firmware (TbtDxe, TbtPei, TbtOemBoard etc.). I think the only modules I've added manually were the ones needed for NVME functionality. GPIO is just a fancy word for USB passthrough in this particular situation... nothing special.


----------



## Greenslade (Jun 18, 2021)

silentbogo said:


> I think it's the same as supermicro adapter. Look for DSL5320/5520 driver.
> 
> 
> For HP it should be any Zx20 v2 board or Zx30+. Just checked my modded Z620 v1 BIOS, and it does have thunderbolt modules listed in firmware (TbtDxe, TbtPei, TbtOemBoard etc.). I think the only modules I've added manually were the ones needed for NVME functionality. GPIO is just a fancy word for USB passthrough in this particular situation... nothing special.


Does that mean this is the right one for MY HPZ230?



The other thing is why does it have two sockets on the bracket?I want to use it with my lovely Apple Thunderbolt display.Only has thunderbolt connection.​


----------



## Greenslade (Jun 20, 2021)

95Viper said:


> Hi, these links below may be of help.
> Make sure the card you get fits the type of case ( Tower, Small Form Factor, etc. ) you have, also, make sure they have the Windows 10 drivers for the model number of the card you choose.
> 
> HP Z230, Z420, Z620 and Z820 Workstation PCs - Installing the Thunderbolt 2 PCIe Card
> HP Thunderbolt-2 PCIe 1-port I/O Card F3F43AT !!!! Windows 10 Driver ???


I want know that tell i get it.


----------



## PiPo-Sido (Jul 26, 2021)

Hello HP Workstation users,

I have question and a bit of a problem.

Last week my HP Z400 was rebooting and it shows that the internal battery was empty. So i change the battery (duracell) and did a reboot. Of course it was asking to set time+date, i also did. I also notice that it was showing a lot of info during reboot. So i think it has lost all my settings i changed in the bios.

After that Windows 10 Pro was loading and when i started my Speedfan program it was saying that i have only 2 cores and 4 threads. This is strange because im using a Xeon E5620 that have 

# of Cores 4.
# of Threads 8
Also before the empty battery i was able to select in msconfig 8 processors but now it only shows 4. Also when i start CPU-Z it is saying i have Cores 2 Threads 4.

What can i do in my BIOS to have the 4 cores & 8 threads back, i have be looking in the bios and i have activate Hyper-Threading after reading on the HP website "Provides processor parallelization such that the operating system treats one processor as two" but did also did not worked for me.

Im running BIOS v3.61 03/05/2018

If someone can help me with this please. Because im thinking also to upgrade my CPU to a X5670 2,90GHz and that one has 6 cores and 12 threads and hope i can use all of  those.

Thanks from the Netherlands


----------



## unclewebb (Jul 26, 2021)

Clear the Number of processors box in msconfig and reboot so Windows can find all of your CPU.






Consider replacing your CPU with a W3680. These can be overclocked in your HP400. They can run all 6 cores and 12 threads fully loaded at 4000 MHz. The X series cannot be overclocked like this.


----------



## PiPo-Sido (Jul 26, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> Clear the Number of processors box in msconfig and reboot so Windows can find all of your CPU.
> 
> View attachment 209945


Huh is that the issue? When i got this workstation (i bought it second hand and is converted to a desktop) the old owner did the setting in MSCONFIG on to use al 8 threads. So what you are saying is clear / unmark the setting reboot windows and then i would be seeing in MSCONFIG 8 threads?


----------



## unclewebb (Jul 26, 2021)

PiPo-Sido said:


> is that the issue?


This is the issue 99.9% of the time. It never hurts to try this.

There is never a need to screw around with this setting.


----------



## PiPo-Sido (Jul 26, 2021)

For me the cpu is not meant to overclocking. I using it more the time for my BaseStation SBS-3 radar program and it is using a lot of cpu, i also want to upgrade the ram to 48gb maybe because the airplane logo's (80x20 BMP files) are over the 5000 and takes a lot of time to load



unclewebb said:


> This is the issue 99.9% of the time. It never hurts to try this.
> 
> There is never a need to screw around with this setting.


Other question, when i upgrade the cpu and go to higher RAM, do i really need Workstation RAM or can i also use Desktop RAM?


----------



## unclewebb (Jul 26, 2021)

Did you find the missing threads after rebooting?

Use whatever memory your motherboard supports. The manual should show this. 

I have a similar Dell T3500 Workstation. It uses DDR3 unbuffered ram. It can be ECC or non ECC.


----------



## PiPo-Sido (Jul 26, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> Did you find the missing threads after rebooting?
> 
> Use whatever memory your motherboard supports. The manual should show this.
> 
> I have a similar Dell T3500 Workstation. It uses DDR3 unbuffered ram. It can be ECC or non ECC.


I di remove the marker in MSCONFIG and reboot windows, when going to MSCONFIG it is still when i mark it sowing 4 threads not as before the empty batttery 8. Dont know what i can do in the bios to fix it



unclewebb said:


> Did you find the missing threads after rebooting?
> 
> Use whatever memory your motherboard supports. The manual should show this.
> 
> I have a similar Dell T3500 Workstation. It uses DDR3 unbuffered ram. It can be ECC or non ECC.


Where in one of these F10 settings i can select it is going to use the 4 core & 8 threads? HP Z400 F10 Bios-Settings


----------



## silentbogo (Jul 26, 2021)

PiPo-Sido said:


> I di remove the marker in MSCONFIG and reboot windows, when going to MSCONFIG it is still when i mark it sowing 4 threads not as before the empty batttery 8. Dont know what i can do in the bios to fix it
> 
> 
> Where in one of these F10 settings i can select it is going to use the 4 core & 8 threads? HP Z400 F10 Bios-Settings


If msconfig did not help, go to BIOS, open Advanced -> Processors. Set "Active Cores" to All cores, and check if HT is enabled. 
Save, reboot, check msconfig again.


----------



## PiPo-Sido (Jul 26, 2021)

silentbogo said:


> If msconfig did not help, go to BIOS, open Advanced -> Processors. Set "Active Cores" to All cores, and check if HT is enabled.
> Save, reboot, check msconfig again.


Thanks for the post, i did all of that and it did not worked at all, i can tr it again tomorrow.


----------



## nootkabear (Jul 30, 2021)

I have been searching everywhere trying to find information about Z400 and slow internet with wired Fiber Optic.   Download speed without VPN on is less than 100, and upload around 350.  I pay for 1000 download, but have never managed to get anything above 150, and that was early on.  After a year, with the VPN connected, I get less than 50.  
Does anyone have any ideas?  My contract with ATT just expired, and they sent tech out to try to figure out the problem, I guess hoping to keep me a customer.  Tech dude said that he could not figure it out.  Said that it has to be something with my processor?  I thought maybe the ethernet card, and he insisted the processor.  HELP!
Any ideas?


----------



## Caring1 (Jul 30, 2021)

nootkabear said:


> I have been searching everywhere trying to find information about Z400 and slow internet with wired Fiber Optic.   Download speed without VPN on is less than 100, and upload around 350.  I pay for 1000 download, but have never managed to get anything above 150, and that was early on.  After a year, with the VPN connected, I get less than 50.
> Does anyone have any ideas?  My contract with ATT just expired, and they sent tech out to try to figure out the problem, I guess hoping to keep me a customer.  Tech dude said that he could not figure it out.  Said that it has to be something with my processor?  I thought maybe the ethernet card, and he insisted the processor.  HELP!
> Any ideas?


Not the Processor, look at your modem or ethernet card.


----------



## nootkabear (Jul 30, 2021)

Caring1 said:


> Not the Processor, look at your modem or ethernet card.


I hate to sound like an idiot, how do I check the ethernet card?  And what am I looking for?


----------



## Caring1 (Jul 30, 2021)

nootkabear said:


> I hate to sound like an idiot, how do I check the ethernet card?  And what am I looking for?


See if it is marked 10/100
or 10/100/1000, that is it's capability in speed.
Likewise if you have an old modem, it could be limited.


----------



## nootkabear (Jul 30, 2021)

Caring1 said:


> See if it is marked 10/100
> or 10/100/1000, that is it's capability in speed.
> Likewise if you have an old modem, it could be limited.


It is ATT's modem, I rent it.


----------



## ModemJunki (Aug 13, 2021)

I didn't realize there was an owners club thread and posted this in the main board.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/hp-z820-upgrade-cpus-or-not.285557/


----------



## nootkabear (Aug 13, 2021)

Caring1 said:


> See if it is marked 10/100
> or 10/100/1000, that is it's capability in speed.
> Likewise if you have an old modem, it could be limited.


Yes, it is marked 10/100/1000
I ordered another modem, it came, I tried it.  Got the same slow results.
Anyone have any other ideas, I greatly appreciate everyone's assistance in this matter!


----------



## lexluthermiester (Aug 13, 2021)

nootkabear said:


> I ordered another modem, it came, I tried it.  Got the same slow results.
> Anyone have any other ideas, I greatly appreciate everyone's assistance in this matter!


Network cable might have hidden kinks? Cable integrity is important to bandwidth stability.


----------



## nootkabear (Aug 13, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Network cable might have hidden kinks? Cable integrity is important to bandwidth stability.


I thought that at first myself, and since all of the internet providers first point that out, I went ahead and tried different cables, I have some cat 7 cables, and cat 6 as well, so I tried different cable early on.
While ATT was here troubleshooting the issue, we tried moving the connection to the modem, into different position, I have two workstations, 2 internet capable DVD players (rarely turned on), and a Roku player; so we moved all the cables around trying to see if maybe it was in the modem, or one of the components, and nothing seemed to matter.

Thanks, any more suggestions?  I am ready to get this figured out, need all the suggestions anyone has, and thank you so much!



Caring1 said:


> See if it is marked 10/100
> or 10/100/1000, that is it's capability in speed.
> Likewise if you have an old modem, it could be limited.


It is marked 10/100/1000



Caring1 said:


> See if it is marked 10/100
> or 10/100/1000, that is it's capability in speed.
> Likewise if you have an old modem, it could be limited.


It is marked 10/100/1000


----------



## ModemJunki (Aug 14, 2021)

nootkabear said:


> Thanks, any more suggestions? I am ready to get this figured out, need all the suggestions anyone has, and thank you so much!


Make sure it's connected at gigabit full duplex and have a look for "MTU tuning" in your favorite search engine.


----------



## imrazor (Aug 16, 2021)

A local seller has a Z400 for sale with a W3520 and 24GB of Unbuffered ECC.  I have an X5687 left over from a dead Dell T5500. If I drop this Westmere chip in the Z400 v2 will a) the memory controller on the new CPU be able to talk to registered ECC DDR3 DIMMs and 2) would I be able to expand the RAM beyond the manufacturer's stated limit?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Aug 16, 2021)

imrazor said:


> A local seller has a Z400 for sale with a W3520 and 24GB of Unbuffered ECC.  I have an X5687 left over from a dead Dell T5500. If I drop this Westmere chip in the Z400 v2 will a) the memory controller on the new CPU be able to talk to registered ECC DDR3 DIMMs and 2) would I be able to expand the RAM beyond the manufacturer's stated limit?


Yes that CPU will work. As a precaution make sure your BIOS is up to date before the switch to be sure your system has the proper CPU microcode. You're going from a Bloomfield based CPU to a WestmereEP based CPU, so the microcode is essential.


----------



## imrazor (Aug 16, 2021)

I thought it probably would. What I'm curious about is the RAM. Any idea if Registered ECC DIMMs will work with a server-class CPU?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Aug 17, 2021)

imrazor said:


> I thought it probably would. What I'm curious about is the RAM. Any idea if Registered ECC DIMMs will work with a server-class CPU?


According to the following page, no, registered DIMMS will not work.





						HP Z400 Workstation Product Specifications | HP® Customer Support
					






					support.hp.com


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Nov 28, 2021)

Building another Z400 to ATX desktop conversion for my niece's and nephew's Christmas this year...they need something for school with a side of Fortnite and Minecraft.  I had some parts lying around so figured I'd make use of them.  I recently got myself a W3680 (and that last 2GB of RAM...finally lol) for my Dell T3500 based build, and they are going to get my W3570 for now. 

So the list so far -

- Xeon W3570 (3.86-4GHZ with Throttlestop)
- HP Z400 motherboard (only the dual channel one though this time) $47
- DIYPC DIY-S08-W (tempered glass ATX case) $55
- 8GB DDR3 1333 $15
- 3x120mm green LED fans, 1x120mm fan white blades
- 1TB 3.5" HDD

Still need to order -

- cheap PSU + 24-pin extension (to adapt to Z400 pinout without modifying PSU) $40ish
- OEM Radeon R7 350 (or similar) $40ish
- cheap SATA SSD $20ish
- maybe a cheap cooler (already have a few OEM Z400/T3500 ones for now) and some RGB fans to replace the green ones $30ish

I have a "busted" 290X that still works fine downclocked.  Might just modify the BIOS with the downclock and give them that card.  I'm disabled, so my budget is very limited.  I'll post some pics once more parts arrive.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 28, 2021)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> Might just modify the BIOS with the downclock and give them that card.


This could work well.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Nov 28, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> This could work well.


The card looks like it has been through a war or something...been through two sets of fans on it, none of them work anymore.  When I was last using it, I used it daily but had 3x90mm server fans zip-tied to it screaming away just to keep it at 800MHz core+undervolt.  I think I'll just set it to as high as I can with it running "passively" (no fans on the cooler, though the case I am using has two, otherwise fairly useless, 120mm fan mounts above the PSU and directly beneath the GPU).  If it will even run at 500MHz 100% stable with that setup I'll be fine with it.  They'll eventually get my RX580...eventually.  Those OEM R7 350 cards seemed to go for peanuts on Ebay, though, last I checked.  Much less hassle.  I'm kinda torn, honestly.  GTX 460 are cheap...but the VRAM is too low, IMO (I only really play Quake Champions and it needs 2GB to not "hitch" or whatever IDK what it's called).  The R7 350 come in 2GB and maybe even 4GB?  Just going by memory here.  There is also GT 710 type cards...but I'd rather not, and if I did, it would be temporary.  If the 290X at half speed works, it would still be a decent "low spec" card for 1080P...I think.  Heck...I've convinced myself to at least see what I can do with the 290X.  Saves me money at the cost of time, which my disabled butt has lots of.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 29, 2021)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> The card looks like it has been through a war or something...been through two sets of fans on it, none of them work anymore.  When I was last using it, I used it daily but had 3x90mm server fans zip-tied to it screaming away just to keep it at 800MHz core+undervolt.  I think I'll just set it to as high as I can with it running "passively" (no fans on the cooler, though the case I am using has two, otherwise fairly useless, 120mm fan mounts above the PSU and directly beneath the GPU).  If it will even run at 500MHz 100% stable with that setup I'll be fine with it.  They'll eventually get my RX580...eventually.  Those OEM R7 350 cards seemed to go for peanuts on Ebay, though, last I checked.  Much less hassle.  I'm kinda torn, honestly.  GTX 460 are cheap...but the VRAM is too low, IMO (I only really play Quake Champions and it needs 2GB to not "hitch" or whatever IDK what it's called).  The R7 350 come in 2GB and maybe even 4GB?  Just going by memory here.  There is also GT 710 type cards...but I'd rather not, and if I did, it would be temporary.  If the 290X at half speed works, it would still be a decent "low spec" card for 1080P...I think.  Heck...I've convinced myself to at least see what I can do with the 290X.  Saves me money at the cost of time, which my disabled butt has lots of.


If you want to keep it on the inexpensive side, get a pair of 2200ishRPM 80mm fans from Amazon or Ebay, pre-service them with a bit of synthetic motor oil in the bearings and then superglue or zip-tie the fans on. You really don't want to run that card in a passive config.

For example, you could do something like the following, take the slot bracket off and attach it directly to the cooler on the card.








						Video Display Card Cooler Dual 80mm Cooling Fan 1700RPM Full Height 3 Pin 12V  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Video Display Card Cooler Dual 80mm Cooling Fan 1700RPM Full Height 3 Pin 12V at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				




Or a pair of these;








						Lots 1/2/4 Quad 4 LED Lights Clear 80mm 120mm PC Computer Case Cooling Fan Mod  | eBay
					

<ul>   <li>Product Dimension: 80x80x25mm / 120x120x25mm</li>   <li>Net Weight: 60g / 110g</li>   <li>Rated Voltage: 10.8~13.2VDC</li>   <li>Starting Voltage: 7VDC</li>   <li>Rated Current: 0.23A / 0.18A</li>   <li>80mm Fan Speed : 2500+/-10% R.P.M</li>   <li>120mm Fan Speed : 1500+/-10%...



					www.ebay.com
				




A set of these would work well too;


			Amazon.com


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Nov 29, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> If you want to keep it on the inexpensive side, get a pair of 2200ishRPM 80mm fans from Amazon or Ebay, pre-service them with a bit of synthetic motor oil in the bearings and then superglue or zip-tie the fans on. You really don't want to run that card in a passive config.
> 
> For example, you could do something like the following, take the slot bracket off and attach it directly to the cooler on the card.
> 
> ...


I have a stack of server fans, but would prefer to keep the zip ties away from this build if I can.  There are the two 120mm fan spots on the case I am using right below the GPU...essentially the same as that dual 80mm PCI slot bracket you linked, only...better...cause 120mm fans.  I think it might work better than you think...but I could be wrong.  Only one way to find out, I guess.  At half clocks, I can't see it drawing much more than 150 watts during regular use.  Two 120mm fans mounted 1-2" off the heatsink should be fine, is my guess.  I can always downclock until it is fine lol  I'd just get the R7 350 before spending $$$ on brackets and more fans, honestly.  Lots of server GPU actually come without fans and expect your case to be made in a way that uses case fans to blow air directly through the heatsink.  Though servers are typically designed around this and cheap ATX cases from Newegg are not, though, obviously.  Also...I don't buy those dirt cheap fans from Ebay and the like anymore...they are all basically so cheap and some don't even last a month before they are making noise.  Arctic Cooling makes the best fans for the money, when it comes to the inexpensive ones, at least.  I have a pair of higher RPM Corsair radiator fans that I will try using beneath the GPU.  Once everything arrives this is the first thing I'll test.  If it doesn't work out, they'll just get the R7 350 lol


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Nov 30, 2021)

I ended up just getting an R7 250 2GB ($40 shipped) as the R7 350's I was looking at were gone and what was left were a little more money than I had to spend.  Still going to try the 290X out, but got the R7 250 just in case it doesn't work out and I want to be sure I have a working card in the PC before Christmas morning. Newegg had a Cooler Master 550W semi-modular on for $35 CAD, so that should be here in the next few days or so and then I can start putting everything together and testing.  I might have just enough left for a cheap 120mm CPU cooler...they'll have to wait 'til Easter for RGB fans and an SSD lol  Got a cheap 1366x768 monitor, RGB keyboard and RGB gamer-y mouse...looking to upgrade my personal monitor to 144hz soon and when I do they can just have the one am using now (23" 1080P HDMI/DVI 75hz).  So I've spent around $180-ish on it so far, add in SSD/RGB fans, and total should come in around $220.  Could have been way cheaper as I have a ton of server junk lying around I could have made work (PSU, coolers, fans, etc.), but it wouldn't "look cool" for the kids lol  I checked and the R7 250 2GB can do Fortnite and Minecraft and whatever, so it should be OK if the 290X doesn't work out.  It's mostly for their school stuff anyway, but I doubt they'd be excited over getting an "office" PC as a Christmas gift, so it at least had to look cool and do some basic gaming.


----------



## phreich (Dec 5, 2021)

phreich said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am new to this forum, and found it when searching for information on HP Z workstations.  I thought my adventure in upgrading to a new machine (eventually winding up with an HP Z460 workstation), might be interesting to you folks, and helpful to some in that they can leverage off of what I've done.
> 
> ...


Just a quick update.....   I just discovered that the Xeon E5-46xx V4 CPUs will work in these systems! 

The HP specsheet for these systems only lists the xeon e5-16xx and e5-26xx v3 and v4 processors as compatible, but I discovered these E5-46xx processors existed and were for the same 2011-3 socket. The major difference between these 3 cpu families is that the e5-16xx will only work as a single processor, the e5-26xx will work as a single or in a dual processor system, and the e5-46xx will work with up to 4 processors.

I have been waiting for the price of the v4 processors to come down to take advantage of the faster speed of the ddr4 2400 memory - the v3 processors max out at the ddr4 2100 memory speed.  I made sure that when I bought the memory for my system I got the 2400 memory knowing it would work at the slower clock speed of the v3 processor, but would also work at its full speed when I got a v4 processor.  (There is really no price difference between the two ddr4 memory speeds on the used server memory market.)

Anyway, the price of the v4 e5-16xx and e5-26xx v4 processors are staying pretty high, but the e5-46xx v4 processors are not.  I got an e5-4655 8 core (16 logical cores with hyperthreading) 2.5ghz processor on Ebay for $49.99 as a test to see if it would work, and it does!  This should provide a nice boost in speed with the increased memory access speed, and the other improvements the v4 processors have.

I thought you folks would want to know this worked, and is a more economical v4 solution.

Oh, and one other upgrade I have done was to replace the sata ssd I originally put in the system with an NVMe ssd.  I bought a PCI-E NVMe adapter board on Amazon for $5.95, and bought a 1TB PNY CS2130 1TB SSD on sale on Amazon for $77.99.  

I realized that these motherboards support this because HP originally sold an NVME drive on an adapter board as an option for these systems.

I really like this particular adapter because it is so minimal -- it doesn't have a rear bracket, so all you need to do is insert the SSD and screw it onto the adapter and then slip the adapter into a 4x or longer PCI-E slot.  The throughput increase between using the SATA interface and running natively on the PCI-E buss is truely amazing.  My system boots much more quickly and programs load really fast now.  

I still keep my data on spinning hard drives in a redundant raid for safety (which I also periodically back up), but it's no big deal if the ssd fails and I just have to reload windows and my programs.  I also do periodic drive image backups for this drive too to minimize the time needed to get back up and running.

One thing I do recommend for any SSD (whether SATA or NVMe), is to put the swap file on a regular drive. If you have enough memory, the swap file won't be used much, and when it is, it won't slow down the system much to have it there. However, data writes are the thing that causes wear on SSDs, and keeping those swapfile writes off the SSD will significantly prolong its longevity....

Here's a link to the NVME adapter:


			https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PYHVXJS
		

it is called "JacobsParts M.2 to PCIe NVMe SSD Adapter Card 2242 2260 2280 M2 Drive to Desktop PCI Express x4 x8 x16 Slot, Minimalist Design"

Philip


----------



## Xeon (Jan 1, 2022)

You could have gotten the hp z turbo drive g2 for like 20$ on eBay, it's pretty good quality, matches your system and comes with a really beaffy heatsink!

I've gambled and bought myself a barebones Z240 for 50£ listed on eBay as parts only. We'll ser if i got lucky or just wasted some money 

Happy new year


----------



## Greenslade (Jan 1, 2022)

Xeon said:


> You could have gotten the hp z turbo drive g2 for like 20$ on eBay, it's pretty good quality, matches your system and comes with a really beaffy heatsink!
> 
> I've gambled and bought myself a barebones Z240 for 50£ listed on eBay as parts only. We'll ser if i got lucky or just wasted some money
> 
> Happy new year


It is only 50 quid  and that is a good price for the one you have i would have been happy paying 50 for my one the earlier model to your one. I have the Z230., their good machines.
Happy New Year to you and everyone else on here.


----------



## frigider (Jan 7, 2022)

hi guys!

got myself a z440  and a 2697v3 CPU.

certified HP services refused to officially help me with BIOS upgraded and CPU install due to high chance of "damage/bricking"  but that guy working there agreed to just change the CPU without BIOS upgrade.

all went well, system is working fine.

I was hoping to get some info about BIOS CPU Settings for CPU to get as MUCH as possible from it.

And another question please: 
does the risk of bricking the MoBo is worth taking by updating the BIOS? 
do you get more performance from....the system via the BIOS upgrade?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 7, 2022)

frigider said:


> hi guys!


Welcome to TPU!


frigider said:


> does the risk of bricking the MoBo is worth taking by updating the BIOS?


The risk is minimal.


frigider said:


> do you get more performance from....the system via the BIOS upgrade?


Sometimes, but not always. Generally, BIOS/Firmware updates fix bug & glitches, patch security issues and add features.

So unless you're having a problem or need to apply a security fix, there is little need to update.


----------



## phreich (Jan 7, 2022)

frigider said:


> hi guys!
> 
> got myself a z440  and a 2697v3 CPU.
> 
> ...


To @frigider:
Congratulations on getting your z440, and welcome to the forum!  These are pretty powerful machines, are easy to upgrade, and are built like tanks.....

I agree with @lexluthermiester -- there is very little risk in updating the bios on these machines.  Most of the changes made to the bios are security related, so I recommend you upgrade to the latest version.  (There are also a few bug fixes.)  The process is pretty painless -- just go to the HP support page and download and execute the bios upgrade.  The program will run, and the system will restart, and then the bios is actually updated, and then restarts, and you've been updated.  Just don't turn your machine off in the middle of the process.

Just in case, there is a bios recovery procedure that is pretty simple too.

Probably the best bang-for-the-buck upgrade would be to install an Nvme m.2 SSD on an adapter in one of your PCI-E slots.  You'll be amazed at the difference it makes.  (make sure the adapter and the ssd are Nvme -- not m.2 sata).  You can see the aftermarket adapter I have been successfully using a few posts up (it's only around $5).  Or as @Xeon mentioned after my previous post, you could spend a bit more and buy a used HP adapter card for around $25-$30 (less if you don't care about the heat sink).

While you are at it you might consider updating the TPM bios as well. HP has published a TPM Version 2 update that will allow you to set up better security on your system.  I have successfully applied it and have turned on secure boot.  The processor won't qualify for the free windows 11 upgrade, but Microsoft published a registry change to bypass the TPM and CPU restrictions which will allow upgrading to Win 11 should you want to. 

_Begin Windows 11 rant:_
However, due to a couple of inane changes Microsoft has made in Win 11, I am choosing to stay with Win 10 until these are fixed in subsequent updates.  The issues that are the most problematic for me are the removal of customizable toolbars, and the movement of commonly used right-click submenu features from the main sub-menu in windows explorer -- forcing additional clicks to get the same work done.  Yes, there are 3rd party add-on "fixes" for these issues, but I don't see there's enough "better" in Windows 11 to justify having to use these "fixes".
_End Windows 11 rant_

Philip


----------



## frigider (Jan 7, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> The risk is minimal.


i know you have the possibility to recover the BIOS with a flas drive/reset button / jumper but read online of guys saying it just didn't work and the MoBo was bricked so i got a bit scared of this operation.
I did BIOS updates on some laptops but those have batteries so power cuts are not a problem and i don't have a UPS.



lexluthermiester said:


> So unless you're having a problem or need to apply a security fix, there is little need to update.


then it's settled. 
no update for me 



phreich said:


> Just don't turn your machine off in the middle of the process.


power grid is pretty unstable where i live - fluctuations/power cuts. scared of doing it without UPS that can hold it up for... a couple of minutes 



phreich said:


> Probably the best bang-for-the-buck upgrade would be to install an Nvme m.2 SSD on an adapter in one of your PCI-E slots. You'll be amazed at the difference it makes. (make sure the adapter and the ssd are Nvme -- not m.2 sata). You can see the aftermarket adapter I have been successfully using a few posts up (it's only around $5). Or as @Xeon mentioned after my previous post, you could spend a bit more and buy a used HP adapter card for around $25-$30 (less if you don't care about the heat sink).


heard about those, i have an SSD and it never goes to 100% so..... until that happens i will live with it.
or is it just THAT much faster? 


phreich said:


> While you are at it you might consider updating the TPM bios as well.


never even heard of TPM , i am a noob.
will look it up.

TBH i don't care about security that much - i edit stupid clips.
Am I ignorant/ missing something?


thanks all for the replies!


----------



## phreich (Jan 7, 2022)

frigider said:


> i know you have the possibility to recover the BIOS with a flas drive/reset button / jumper but read online of guys saying it just didn't work and the MoBo was bricked so i got a bit scared of this operation.
> I did BIOS updates on some laptops but those have batteries so power cuts are not a problem and i don't have a UPS.
> 
> 
> ...


to @frigider:
The difference in speed between an Nvme ssd and a sata/ahci based ssd can be up to 6 times faster, especially when doing sequential reads or writes.  The maximum theoretical speed of the sata III interface is about 500MB/second, where the Nvme on a PCI-E 3 buss like ours can run at up to 3000MB/second.  (Newer machines with PCI-E 4 run faster still).

Nvme drives also can handle more requests concurrently/simultaneously as well.  For instance, lets say Windows is doing indexing in the background, and you are doing heavy disk access during video editing.  On a sata ssd, it's likely the system would be noticeably slower when this happens, but on an Nvme SSD both could easily be happening with little or no noticeable impact.

When I upgraded from a sata/ahci ssd to the Nvme ssd, windows booted probably 30-50% faster, programs now load almost instantaneously, and when I run virtual machines in Docker -- they start, stop, and run much faster too.

Now there is the caveat that the bios of the system needs to be optimized for running Nvme SSDs. If it isn't, they might not work at all, or you might not be able to boot from them. However, the Z440, Z640 and Z840 workstations have a bios that has been optimized for Nvme, and so they should perform well in them. However, there is another caveat -- not all Nvme m.2 drives are created equal -- make sure to read reviews before buying a particular drive to make sure it can perform well.

Here's an article that you may find helpful:








						NVMe vs. SATA: Which SSD Technology Is Faster?
					

NVMe drives are a big deal in computer storage right now, and for good reason. Not only does an NVMe solid-state drive (SSD) leave most older SSDs in the dust, it’s also blazing fast compared to standard 3.5- and 2.5-inch drives.




					www.howtogeek.com
				




I just repurposed the sata SSD's for other machines -- older laptops and desktops in the extended family -- so they are still being useful.

I hope this helps....

Philip


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 8, 2022)

frigider said:


> power grid is pretty unstable where i live - fluctuations/power cuts. scared of doing it without UPS that can hold it up for... a couple of minutes


With that said, I highly recommend that you invest in a UPS of good quality, if only for safe operation and peace of mind.


phreich said:


> The maximum theoretical speed of the sata III interface is about 500MB/second, where the Nvme on a PCI-E 3 buss like ours can run at up to 3000MB/second. (Newer machines with PCI-E 4 run faster still).


It should be noted however, that for daily average use, a SATA SSD is more than enough. Most people can't tell the difference between NVMe and SATA SSD's.


----------



## frigider (Jan 8, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> It should be noted however, that for daily average use, a SATA SSD is more than enough. Most people can't tell the difference between NVMe and SATA SSD's.


true. it is easy to get lost in the specs' "numbers" and not realize you will not reach those numbers.

my new saying is: if it doesn't bottleneck - don't upgrade it.

my z440 came with a 1Tb Seagate HDD and i was very sure i will need to upgrade to ssd (OS drive is SSD, HDD is just for storage) but during tests - rendering, copying from NAS - it went Really fast so i will leave it alone.


----------



## Samiam66 (Jan 10, 2022)

Z420 Twins demoted to htpc roles..but were fast six yrs ago...
Wow six years ago my hair was still black..and i could see my toes
found this pic on storage drive






HP z400 factory fan shroud


----------



## frigider (Jan 17, 2022)

I got a E5-2697 V3 installed in my Z440.
but CPU-Z bench shows all cores reaching a max of 3.1GHz.
should i reset BIOS to default settings?
maybe some will reach the advertised 3.6GHz?

i might have changed some things... trying to set it to "max perf" .....


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Jan 18, 2022)

I forgot to share pics of the second Z400 to desktop conversion I've done...so here is one.  Put this all together for around $200, give or take.  Had some parts already, but had to buy most of it.





Xeon W3570
8GB DDR3 1333
R7 250 2GB
120GB SSD
550W Cooler Master (semi-modular)
DIYPC DIY-S08-W
Vetroo V3 cooler
1366x768 VGA monitor w/ DVI-to-VGA adapter
"rgb" keyboard / mouse

This was for my sister and her kids for Christmas for school and a bit of gaming.  Somehow...it runs Poppy Playtime (game in the photo) at an acceptable framerate at 1366x768.  They play Fortnite, the Sims 4, Roblox...does fine for all of that so far.  Haven't seen much school work being done on it yet, though lol  I know it's not the greatest PC, but they've never had one, well...a laptop with a dual core Celeron that barely works.  I am disabled, and my sister is a single mother with five kids.  Intention was that it shares the same platform as my main PC, so when I upgrade, they get all the "hand-me-down" parts.  GPU is kind of a temporary thing until I can "Kijiji" my way into a deal on something faster.  It does the trick for now, and was very inexpensive.  And when I upgrade their GPU, I can use the R7 250 in my PC for extra monitors or something, or just keep it for a spare.  I did try to rig up this rough 290X I have, but no matter how I went about it, it was gonna be too loud for their build in a common area of their house.  Oh, I forgot to mention...the 24-pin adapter is made from a "dual PSU" 24-pin thing, as that was the cheapest way to get a black 24-pin cable "extension"...just clipped the extra PSU connector off and added a molex to supply 12V to pins 12 and 23.  The actual adapters are too expensive, and black 24-pin extensions are like twice the price of the dual PSU things.  And one last thing...that CPU cooler mounting mechanism...I've never been so worried about breaking a motherboard and / or CPU in my life...and I've built hundreds, possible thousands of PC since way back.  I got it on, but was almost sure the PC wasn't gonna boot...but it did.  If anyone orders that cooler, beware...with 1366, at least.


----------



## frigider (Jan 18, 2022)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> I forgot to share pics of the second Z400 to desktop conversion I've done...so here is one.  Put this all together for around $200, give or take.  Had some parts already, but had to buy most of it.
> 
> View attachment 233024
> 
> ...


damn, i never got such a cool Chritmas present.
never fancied "display" cases but HP engineering really deserves to be seen


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Jan 18, 2022)

frigider said:


> damn, i never got such a cool Chritmas present.
> never fancied "display" cases but HP engineering really deserves to be seen


I'm personally more of a Dell guy when it comes to OEM, but have lots of love for HP as well, as you can see lol



frigider said:


> I got a E5-2697 V3 installed in my Z440.
> but CPU-Z bench shows all cores reaching a max of 3.1GHz.
> should i reset BIOS to default settings?
> maybe some will reach the advertised 3.6GHz?
> ...


I'm not familiar with your platform or your CPU, but it's normal for most Intel CPU to have different "Turbo Limits" depending on how many cores are loaded up...if all cores are loaded, you'll get a lower boost than the max.  Can you run Throttlestop and take a screenshot of the TRL/TPL tabs?  Also...how are your temps when running CPU-Z bench?  Is the core frequency still "ramping up" when the benchmark ends?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 18, 2022)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> I'm personally more of a Dell guy when it comes to OEM, but have lots of love for HP as well, as you can see lol
> 
> 
> I'm not familiar with your platform or your CPU, but it's normal for most Intel CPU to have different "Turbo Limits" depending on how many cores are loaded up...if all cores are loaded, you'll get a lower boost than the max.  Can you run Throttlestop and take a screenshot of the TRL/TPL tabs?  Also...how are your temps when running CPU-Z bench?  Is the core frequency still "ramping up" when the benchmark ends?


That is definitely a cool machine!


----------



## frigider (Jan 19, 2022)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> Can you run Throttlestop and take a screenshot of the TRL/TPL tabs? Also...how are your temps when running CPU-Z bench? Is the core frequency still "ramping up" when the benchmark ends?


i ran the bench test - but that takes very little time, so it does not heat up i guess.

should i run the stress test?

did not find TTPL tab in throttlestop:

at some point i got 6200 bench points but i must have messed somthing up


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Jan 19, 2022)

frigider said:


> i ran the bench test - but that takes very little time, so it does not heat up i guess.
> 
> should i run the stress test?
> 
> ...


My bad, Throttlestop looks different with your CPU...tabs are different.  Can you set CPU-z bench to only run on 1-2 cores?  A single core load should "turbo" to the max turbo, though it's tough to get a single core load while also running windows.  You can use Throttlestop to play with Turbo limits, but you should go post in the Throttlestop thread as your CPU and platform are beyond my knowledge lol   It seems to me to be functioning normally though...base clocks are much lower, and max turbo appears to be 3.6GHz (which will be single core load, likely), so I think you're good.  Might get more out of it with Throttlestop though!


----------



## frigider (Jan 20, 2022)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> My bad, Throttlestop looks different with your CPU...tabs are different.  Can you set CPU-z bench to only run on 1-2 cores?  A single core load should "turbo" to the max turbo, though it's tough to get a single core load while also running windows.  You can use Throttlestop to play with Turbo limits, but you should go post in the Throttlestop thread as your CPU and platform are beyond my knowledge lol   It seems to me to be functioning normally though...base clocks are much lower, and max turbo appears to be 3.6GHz (which will be single core load, likely), so I think you're good.  Might get more out of it with Throttlestop though!


i would like for the CPU to work as specified by intel.
in task manager it sometimes shows ~3.3 so i guess 1-2 cores go higher than 3.1.

either CPU-Z is ...not getting a core to 3.6 or win 10 task manager is lying to me.

i want stability etc so i will leave it alone if it works ok. which i don't know if it does.
'
was thinking of a BIOS reset to factory detfaults - see if CPU-Z fairs differently.
will do some test when i can spare some time.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Jan 20, 2022)

frigider said:


> i would like for the CPU to work as specified by intel.
> in task manager it sometimes shows ~3.3 so i guess 1-2 cores go higher than 3.1.
> 
> either CPU-Z is ...not getting a core to 3.6 or win 10 task manager is lying to me.
> ...


Unfortunately, Intel's Turbo and whatnot is kind of like that...it will never boost to 3.6GHz on all core, probably not even on 2 cores.  Hopefully someone else can chime in on it, maybe post also in the "Xeon" thread here?  If someone out there knows and can share the specific turbo/power limits for the E5-2697 V3, that would be cool, but IMO, I think it's working properly.  It's a high core count CPU (for that platform)) and even running at 3.3GHz fully loaded seems decent to me.  You can get higher clocked CPU with higher turbo for your platform, but they will be significantly lower core count.  Also, again, it's almost impossible to put a single core load on a CPU from within Windows...Windows will always be using CPU in the background.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 20, 2022)

frigider said:


> i would like for the CPU to work as specified by intel.


It is.


Aaron_Henderson said:


> Unfortunately, Intel's Turbo and whatnot is kind of like that...it will never boost to 3.6GHz on all core, probably not even on 2 cores.


This is correct.

The E5-2697 V3 only goes to max turbo on 1 core at a time, 3.5 on 2 and 3.4 on 3. Max all core turbo for that CPU is 2.8ghz, as shown by the graph at Anandtech;








						Intel Haswell-EP Xeon 14 Core Review: E5-2695 V3 and E5-2697 V3
					






					www.anandtech.com


----------



## frigider (Jan 21, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> The E5-2697 V3 only goes to max turbo on 1 core at a time, 3.5 on 2 and 3.4 on 3. Max all core turbo for that CPU is 2.8ghz, as shown by the graph at Anandtech;


well call me lucky then, CPU-Z shows 3099 GHz on all cores for me  
so forget about me complaining


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 21, 2022)

frigider said:


> well call me lucky then, CPU-Z shows 3099 GHz on all cores for me
> so forget about me complaining


Yeah, that seems like a win. Anandtech doesn't often get things wrong and they would have been called out on that one if they had made a mistake. So something about you combination of CPU and the system you're running it on is giving you an advantage. And yeah, 3.1ghz on 14cores/28threads is a solid performance. I would call that a win for that CPU.


----------



## frigider (Jan 21, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Yeah, that seems like a win. Anandtech doesn't often get things wrong and they would have been called out on that one if they had made a mistake. So something about you combination of CPU and the system you're running it on is giving you an advantage. And yeah, 3.1ghz on 14cores/28threads is a solid performance. I would call that a win for that CPU.


Yeah well in this case I will not reset bios settings after all 

I have to look into this turbo for xeons.
Sounds like a bit of a gamble unfortunately. Will check Andandtech, thanks.
+Good old google.


----------



## frigider (Jan 25, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> The E5-2697 V3 only goes to max turbo on 1 core at a time, 3.5 on 2 and 3.4 on 3. Max all core turbo for that CPU is 2.8ghz, as shown by the graph at Anandtech;


interesting - according to this website it's 3.1 on all cores:

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/hpc/Xeon-E5v3-All-Core-Turbo-and-Amdahl-s-Law-759/


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 25, 2022)

frigider said:


> interesting - according to this website it's 3.1 on all cores:
> 
> https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/hpc/Xeon-E5v3-All-Core-Turbo-and-Amdahl-s-Law-759/


That IS interesting. Weird. Still, 3.1ghz all core is solid performance.


----------



## frigider (Jan 25, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> The IS interesting. Weird. Still, 3.1ghz all core is solid performance.


yes, well - as the noob that i am i imagined all cores could go to 3.6, imagine the disapointment  

at least now i can do some proper research, i care about all core performance.


----------



## Xeon (Jan 25, 2022)

You actually can (potentially) on E5-2600 V3's there is a bug.


----------



## frigider (Jan 25, 2022)

Xeon said:


> You actually can (potentially) on E5-2600 V3's there is a bug.


have read about this but i think they did it on chinese mother boards - flashed the BIOS or something.

i have a Z440 - can i do that too?
also read that there is a risk involved? or actually if CPU goes over 145W TDP it will stop going "bats#it crazy" on all cores.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 25, 2022)

frigider said:


> i care about all core performance.


To be fair, if that is what you care about you should really be focusing on a newer CPU like a 12 or 16 core Ryzen or similar from Intel. These older CPU's are great to play, toy and tinker with, but realistically, if performance is what you need newer is the way to go and aren't much more expensive.


----------



## frigider (Jan 26, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> To be fair, if that is what you care about you should really be focusing on a newer CPU like a 12 or 16 core Ryzen or similar from Intel. These older CPU's are great to play, toy and tinker with, but realistically, if performance is what you need newer is the way to go and aren't much more expensive.


i am considering this. checked performance comparison websites and it's pretty much a non-contest.

looks like the 2xCPU and 36,44,88 threads dream is slowly dying.

the "issue" with new products is that they are not so much upgrade-able as the old ones.
where you could go t0 2xx, 5xx, 7xx GB of RAM, having 2 CPU sockets you could start small with 1xV3, upgrade to 2xV3s, then maybe 2xV4s?
i am aware of the danger posted by "numbers", getting lost in the specs etc. i currently do not top-out my CPU. so in theory i should not upgrade it.

i am ashamed to admit this but: IF i can sell the Z440 i would do the switch.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 26, 2022)

frigider said:


> i am considering this. checked performance comparison websites and it's pretty much a non-contest.
> 
> looks like the 2xCPU and 36,44,88 threads dream is slowly dying.
> 
> ...


To be fair, your CPU is a good one. It just been eclipsed. Out of curiosity, what are you wanting to do?


----------



## frigider (Jan 26, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> To be fair, your CPU is a good one. It just been eclipsed. Out of curiosity, what are you wanting to do?


I use it for video editing -  Adobe After effects.
Most of the "special effects" are "processed" by the CPU - it will run all cores close to 90%.

Effects processed by the GPU are starting to show up.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 27, 2022)

frigider said:


> I use it for video editing -  Adobe After effects.
> Most of the "special effects" are "processed" by the CPU - it will run all cores close to 90%.
> 
> Effects processed by the GPU are starting to show up.


Ah, now that use case scenario is it's easier to render input. That CPU will be fine for video editing. While a newer CPU would do better, that CPU you're using will do the job well. The key with Video rendering is RAM, you'll need lots of it depending on the resolution you want to render out and the length of the video's you wish to produce. I would recommend 32GB as a starting point, but if you hit a RAM wall, go to 64GB. The Z440 has a 128GB limit(http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c04823811.pdf), so 64GB is doable.


----------



## frigider (Jan 27, 2022)

Strange, I read about 256 max RAM.


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## lexluthermiester (Jan 27, 2022)

frigider said:


> Strange, I read about 256 max RAM.


That might be possible, perhaps even likely, but the official word from HP in the system manual is 128GB. Let's be practical though, 64GB will likely be more than you'll ever need for that system.


----------



## frigider (Jan 28, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> That might be possible, perhaps even likely, but the official word from HP in the system manual is 128GB. Let's be practical though, 64GB will likely be more than you'll ever need for that system.


i will find that out soon.
now i have 40 and it fills up to the top.


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## Xeon (Feb 9, 2022)

frigider said:


> have read about this but i think they did it on chinese mother boards - flashed the BIOS or something.
> 
> i have a Z440 - can i do that too?
> also read that there is a risk involved? or actually if CPU goes over 145W TDP it will stop going "bats#it crazy" on all cores.



Asus, Asrock and some other have worked also with a bios flash you can look it up on win-raid forum if you like. Bios flashing won't work on the HP.... I've heard some people loading the early micro code within a UEFI shell but tbh I don't  know much about it.


----------



## frigider (Feb 9, 2022)

Xeon said:


> Asus, Asrock and some other have worked also with a bios flash you can look it up on win-raid forum if you like. Bios flashing won't work on the HP.... I've heard some people loading the early micro code within a UEFI shell but tbh I don't  know much about it.


thanks - i will leave it alone.
tbh thinking of moving to "consumer grade" cpus like ryzen - purely because of the speed. 
checked some comparisons and the perf diff is huge - my xeon rated ~250th and ryzen at ~50th spot.
sounds a bit mind blowing.

but that rating reflected reality when comparing my xeon to my i5 gen 10 - it really is 2-3 times faster. 
so I have faith in that rating.


----------



## Samiam66 (Feb 17, 2022)

Fridger

I made the jump when the first Ryzen 7 3700-3900 were released june 2019 i think..
Still have 3  HP Z420 around the house for HTPC stuff ...And they are reliable as ever 
Use Ryzens for daily work related task

long live the Xeons

Sam


----------



## frigider (Feb 17, 2022)

Samiam66 said:


> long live the Xeons


amen to that brother.

there is a high chance i will not be able to sell the 440 and get a decent amount of cash for it.
so worst case i think i will do a  buy-back and switch to a dell dual CPU v3/4... it should beat the ryzen 

because dells are cheaper for some reason. :|


----------



## Samiam66 (Feb 17, 2022)

Listen 

I play Xplane -11 and Microsoft Flight Simulator all the time ..And I can say for a fact
I wouldn't get on a plane ........im piloting ..

peace brother

Sam


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## Xeon (Feb 19, 2022)

frigider said:


> because dells are cheaper for some reason. :|


Supply and demand, I guess. I was looking for a used Z820 to shove some hardware I have laying around from a dead Dell R720  and was amazed at the price asked for such an old system.


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## Aaron_Henderson (Feb 19, 2022)

Xeon said:


> Supply and demand, I guess. I was looking for a used Z820 to shove some hardware I have laying around from a dead Dell R720  and was amazed at the price asked for such an old system.


My hypothesis is that the HP motherboards have a more standard "nearly ATX" motherboard layout that makes using the boards in other scenarios easier and more desirable than Dell's misshapen boards.  That's just a guess, though.  The HP dual 2011 motherboards are some of the more desirable, from what limited research I've done.  So that makes the prices of the motherboards go up a ton as they are tougher to come across as replacements.  I imagine there's more to it than that, but it seems only certain models of HP fetch more than their Dell competition, most of them seem to be dual 2011 socket.


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## Xeon (Feb 19, 2022)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> My hypothesis is that the HP motherboards have a more standard "nearly ATX" motherboard layout that makes using the boards in other scenarios easier and more desirable than Dell's misshapen boards.  That's just a guess, though.


I once did such a build...totally not worth it, just buy the damn thing


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Feb 19, 2022)

Xeon said:


> I once did such a build...totally not worth it, just buy the damn thing
> 
> View attachment 237224


I've built a ton of them...but they don't look like that...no offense lol  I find it fun doing conversions.


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## Xeon (Feb 19, 2022)

None taken. Thought it was clear that this was just a test bench, back in the day you couldn't go to eBay or Amazon and order the power adapters and I/O shield. You had to make them yourself...but I had bad luck with this build and the motherboard died not long after installing it in the case...and I ended up with a case with extra holes and some messed up fan connectors.



			https://i.ibb.co/Z1d7ZLw/WP-20150302-021.jpg


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## Aaron_Henderson (Feb 19, 2022)

Xeon said:


> None taken. Thought it was clear that this was just a test bench, back in the day you couldn't go to eBay or Amazon and order the power adapters and I/O shield. You had to make them yourself...but I had bad luck with this build and the motherboard died not long after installing it in the case...and I ended up with a case with extra holes and some messed up fan connectors.


I have been making all of mine myself since years back too...not hating on your test bench at all.  I just thought you were implying that is what any attempt at it might turn out like.  I don't even buy consumer grade systems at all anymore just out of sheer boredom, really.  I've built more computers than I care to recall, and making custom cable adapters is pretty much the norm for all of my builds now.  Granted...in most cases, someone has already published the pinouts somewhere and I just use what's already been done.  But not always.  I still use my multimeter and do my own pinouts from time to time when I need to.  It's just more rare these days than it used to be.  My last few builds have needed case modification to fit the motherboard and / or cable adapters, which I made myself.  There is even a photo not far back in this thread of one I did around Christmas time last year with custom adapter cables and an HP Z400 motherboard.  I've also done the test bench lots of times, but I am clumsy and destroy hardware when it's left out like that...back in 775 days, I killed my whole main PC by having it out like that and spilling auto antifreeze all over everything.  It killed my precious P5N SLI board and I was bummed and now just build in a case instead of risking it.

The next upgrade I am eyeing (I think) was a Dell T5610 motherboard...dual 2011 with a couple 8 core Xeon...rest will stay the same.  Case will need some more hacking up, but I have the tools and space again to do it, so why not.  I looked at the dual 2011 HP boards and they are way pricey.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Feb 19, 2022)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> a Dell T5610 motherboard...dual 2011 with a couple 8 core Xeon


2667V2s?


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Feb 19, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> 2667V2s?


Not even entirely sure yet, to be honest.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Feb 19, 2022)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> Not even entirely sure yet, to be honest.


If you do decide to go that direction, give the 2667V2 serious consideration. It's the fastest 8core for that socket and it doesn't run very warm. Under load mine gets into the low 50s C at the warmest.




Granted, I have an excellent cooler, but the heatsinks that come with the T5610 are very good. This CPU might get into the mid or high 50s C one them. 16c/32t and 32GB or 64GB of 1866EccReg quad channel RAM and you won't need another system for a few years.


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## frigider (Feb 20, 2022)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> My hypothesis is that the HP motherboards have a more standard "nearly ATX" motherboard layout that makes using the boards in other scenarios easier and more desirable than Dell's misshapen boards.


haha that makes sense.



lexluthermiester said:


> give the 2667V2 serious consideration. It's the fastest 8core for that socket


again - another tough choice.
i am thinking of a dual cpu.

v2 let's say. Cause it's cheaper than MoBo with v3/v4.

but you would think v3/v4 is more future proof.
too many choices and it's hard to choose.

*or the eternal "new Ryzen"...


----------



## lexluthermiester (Feb 21, 2022)

frigider said:


> but you would think v3/v4 is more future proof.
> too many choices and it's hard to choose.


Think about your time frame. How long do you intend to use the system for? If you want to use it for the next 2 or 3 years V2 is a solid choice. However if you intend 4, 5 or more, the V3/V4 might be the better option. However, that depends greatly on your workload.


----------



## Xeon (Feb 22, 2022)

Just got this beautiful HP Workstation, anyone can guess what model it is?


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## Aaron_Henderson (Feb 22, 2022)

Can't say without googling other than it looks to be dual 771.

EDIT - XW8200 it looks like.  Don't know anything about it.  Do the CPU have HT?


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## Xeon (Feb 22, 2022)

Yeap, 2 cores and 4 threads on this dual CPU workstation


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## Aaron_Henderson (Feb 22, 2022)

Xeon said:


> Yeap, 2 cores and 4 threads on this dual CPU workstation


Now you just need an era appropriate "top end" GPU to go with and then post it in the Nostalgic Hardware thread on here!

EDIT - maybe Crossfire or SLI to go with the dual CPU?  That would be pretty cool.


----------



## Watermelon5 (Feb 22, 2022)

Been running a HP z620 with Xeon e5-2690, 8x4gb DDR3-1333 ECC, and GTX 980 for video editing for a few years now. Used to have a second E5-2690 on the riser card, but unfortunately I started getting random blackscreen crashes/system lockups with the card so had to take it out.


----------



## Xeon (Feb 22, 2022)

That's a pretty nice setup, too bad about the riser card, but probably didn't affect your workflow too much.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Feb 22, 2022)

Xeon said:


> Just got this beautiful HP Workstation, anyone can guess what model it is?


That looks like a dual Socket 604 based system. The SCSI port & cable gives away the generation of hardware. As for the exact model, no idea..



Xeon said:


> Yeap, 2 cores and 4 threads on this dual CPU workstation


Really? Socket 771? Fair enough. I'd get a pair of X5450s for it. They go cheap on ebay currently.


----------



## Xeon (Feb 22, 2022)

It's a socket 604 system alright, The cpu's are Xeon Nocona 3.6GH/z, so they are single core units with 2 threads. My goal with this system is just making it period correct.


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## Samiam66 (Feb 23, 2022)

my guess  xw9300  late to see post,


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## Aaron_Henderson (Feb 24, 2022)

Watermelon5 said:


> Been running a HP z620 with Xeon e5-2690, 8x4gb DDR3-1333 ECC, and GTX 980 for video editing for a few years now. Used to have a second E5-2690 on the riser card, but unfortunately I started getting random blackscreen crashes/system lockups with the card so had to take it out.


Have you done any further "diagnostics" on the riser card?  Cleaning (with electrical contact cleaner + soft brush or something) the riser to motherboard connection and CPU socket / ram slots might be worth a try.  Also just a visual inspection while it's apart for any obvious damage.


----------



## Watermelon5 (Feb 24, 2022)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> Have you done any further "diagnostics" on the riser card?  Cleaning (with electrical contact cleaner + soft brush or something) the riser to motherboard connection and CPU socket / ram slots might be worth a try.  Also just a visual inspection while it's apart for any obvious damage.


Yes, I have, cleaned and no visible damage.


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## Aaron_Henderson (Apr 30, 2022)

This build was from 5 years ago or something but just stumbled upon the photos today...I just built it to sell it, but I always loved that case. Wish I had kept it.  I think this build started with a $30 CAN Proliant DL120 G6 that came with 8GB RAM, and 2x250GB HDD.

Intel Xeon X3440
8GB DDR3 10600R
HP Proliant DL120 G6 motherboard
Asus GTX 680 DirectCU II
EVGA 500B 500W PSU
4 x 250GB SATA RAID
Antec P182SE
Deepcool GAMMAXX 200







Also...can't remember if I shared this one either, but I found these as well...an experiment that turned out kinda cool, IMO.  It's another HP 1U server (DL360 gen 5?) transformed just a little....the entire thing had been cut down to about half the size, custom bits all over....just a proof of concept.  At the time, I had access to a ton of local workstation and server hardware for scrap prices.  This is a dual 771 system, if I can recall, with a GTX 780, I think.  Around 5 or so years back as well.  The stand is some heavy steel, a cutout from a scratch built case I was working on that someone used a sheet metal brake and a welder on...the piece was a cutout for fans and I just bolted it to the bottom of this thing.  No flex, nice and heavy.  Also...that is color shift paint...hard to tell from the photo.  And those two 120mm fans blow directly down onto the CPU heatsink, and they had to be high RPM in order to keep the RAM cool, unfortunately.


----------



## Kevin O'Brien (Aug 6, 2022)

TARDIS said:


> Hi all, new to owning a Z620 and looking at upgrading storage. Plan is to install a couple of PCIe M.2 adapter cards and two NVMe SSDs - 1TB for OS and apps, and 500GB for scratch. System will be used for GIS/mapping, photo and video editing. Specs are 2011 build Z620, E5-1650v0 3.2 cpu, 32GB RAM, 1TB hdd, NVIDIA Quadro K2000.
> 
> My question is will the Z620 with this cpu support NVMe by PCIe M.2 adapter and at what speed?
> 
> ...





TARDIS said:


> Hi all, new to owning a Z620 and looking at upgrading storage. Plan is to install a couple of PCIe M.2 adapter cards and two NVMe SSDs - 1TB for OS and apps, and 500GB for scratch. System will be used for GIS/mapping, photo and video editing. Specs are 2011 build Z620, E5-1650v0 3.2 cpu, 32GB RAM, 1TB hdd, NVIDIA Quadro K2000.
> 
> My question is will the Z620 with this cpu support NVMe by PCIe M.2 adapter and at what speed?
> 
> ...



HP usergroup posts - how to add NVME boot using REFIND boot manager
You can find instructions on how to boot from an NVME SSD mounted on a PCIE card at the link  posted above.  I did it for two Z620s a few days ago.  The instructions are very clear and detailed.  The result is an amazing boost in speed.  PCIE 3.0 is much faster than SATA, 2000mbs vs 600, a 3x plus gain.  PCIE can also read and write simultaneously, while SATA can only do one at a time.


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## Greenslade (Aug 6, 2022)

Does any one know where i can get a pcie card for thunderbolt for z230  work station in the UK?.I understand the z230 is capable of it.I have a loverly 27 thunderbolt display going to wasteOtherwise i will have to wait tell i get a M1 ot later Mac Mini.That want be for another couple of years when my 27 Imac can no linger have the latest OS.


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## ModemJunki (Aug 10, 2022)

Had a Z820, upgraded the CPUs - and then I got for free an Z840 with dual E5-2697 v4s, 128 GB of DDR4 1866 RAM in quad-channel mode, and 4x Samsung MZVKW512 NVMe drives. I gave the Z820 to a friend.

Just bragging is all.


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## nootkabear (Aug 10, 2022)

ModemJunki said:


> Had a Z820, upgraded the CPUs - and then I got for free an Z840 with dual E5-2697 v4s, 128 GB of DDR4 1866 RAM in quad-channel mode, and 4x Samsung MZVKW512 NVMe drives. I gave the Z820 to a friend.
> 
> Just bragging is all.



We all could use a friend like you.


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## Nikuuuuu (Aug 10, 2022)

Does anyone know how to permanently remove the Z440 No front-usb warning on a 3rd party case?


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## Count von Schwalbe (Aug 11, 2022)

Greenslade said:


> Does any one know where i can get a pcie card for thunderbolt for z230  work station in the UK?.I understand the z230 is capable of it.I have a loverly 27 thunderbolt display going to wasteOtherwise i will have to wait tell i get a M1 ot later Mac Mini.That want be for another couple of years when my 27 Imac can no linger have the latest OS.


If it has a PCIe slot free, it should be easy to pick up a relatively generic card off of Amazon.


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## Greenslade (Aug 20, 2022)

I have an HPZ230 I have a 500 Gb and 256Gb SSD,s and a 2TB HDD as 2 drives. When I connected another drive it shows Raid. when trying to boot. into Win10 and hails to boot.
My question is why does it not work with the extra drive? Is there a maximum number of drives the PC can use? I got a new data cabal and thought that was the problem. But it was not. I have enough cabals, I would have thought it should work.
Everything is connected properly. I can all drives when starting up.


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## phreich (Sep 14, 2022)

Greenslade said:


> I have an HPZ230 I have a 500 Gb and 256Gb SSD,s and a 2TB HDD as 2 drives. When I connected another drive it shows Raid. when trying to boot. into Win10 and hails to boot.
> My question is why does it not work with the extra drive? Is there a maximum number of drives the PC can use? I got a new data cabal and thought that was the problem. But it was not. I have enough cabals, I would have thought it should work.
> Everything is connected properly. I can all drives when starting up.


I think you mean it "fails" to boot?

It could be that it is trying to boot from that new drive, and is hanging up there.

Try pressing the "ESC" key during the POST screen, and select "boot menu", and then select the drive you want to boot from (which should NOT be the new drive). Then it should boot up.

Also, unless you are actually using your drives in a RAID configuration, I recommend changing the setting for your SATA ports in the BIOS to AHCI, instead of RAID -- as that will eliminate some boot overhead.

I hope this helps,

Philip


----------



## phreich (Sep 14, 2022)

I have been busy building and selling more z440 and z460 workstatiions to pay for my tech upgrades, the latest one being:

*A major storage upgrade to my Z440/Z460 Frankenstation:*
I am not sure why it took so long for me to realize what RAID 5 had to offer, but this year I added a 3rd matching shucked SATA 12Tb drive to my NAS and added a 3rd matching enterprise SAS 4TB drive to my internal SAS RAID, and converted both from RAID1 to RAID5.  This doubled the storage on both, so my NAS now has 24TB, and the local SAS RAID now has 8TB of storage.  I realize that the drives are no longer direct image copies of each other, but I can still access and can recover my data should a drive fail.

The 12TB drives are shucked Western Digital drives, and are de-rated helium filled enterprise drives that spin at a slightly lower speed.  The 4TB SAS drives are also enterprise grade Seagate drives but run at 7200RPm, so are a bit faster.

In order to add the 3rd drive to my NAS, I had to upgrade my 2 bay dual-core Terramaster F2-221 x64 intel based  NAS to their F4-421 quad-core 4 bay.  This allowed my to put in the 3rd 12TB drive, and run the drives in a RAID 5 configuration.  Their TNAS OS system performed the in-place RAID 1 to 5 conversion (took about 2 days).  I use the NAS as my Plex server, as well as running some home automation software on it in a Docker virtual machine.  I have a

I had a 5.25 to 3.5 inch bay adapter that I kept from one of the z440s I built for someone, and used that to mount the 3rd internal 4tb SAS drive.

I then found a deal on Ebay for some recycled 6tb HGST Enterprise SAS drives, and bought 3 for $30 each.  I then needed a place to mount them.

I found a SAS/SATA 5 bay drive rack on Amazon Warehouse Deals for less than 1/2 price during their 20% off sale during the prime days last year for around $70.

To supply power to it I bought a 4 port molex rear power bracket for about $5 on Ebay from China that I installed in the unused PCI card bay that I connected to a spare molex power connector from the 700W HP power supply.  I then bought a Monoprice Data Power Cable - 2 Feet - 4-pin MOLEX Male to 4X 15-pin SATA II Female Power Cable on Amazon for around $5.50 and a 3 pack of 18 inch 15 Pin SATA Male to Female Extender Power Cables on Amazon to allow for loose and easy connectivity to the rack.

I already had a Mini SAS SFF 8088 Male to 4 SATA 4Pin Female SAS Host/Controller to 4 SATA Target/Backplane cable that I used for testing and cloning drives that I had connected to one of the external ports on the HP P812 SAS RAID controller card.

I like the fact that by populating only 3 of the 5 bays, I provide extra room for cooling the drives (the rack has a built-in cooling fan) -- so there is a 1 bay gap between the drives.

So with those 6TB HGST SAS drives installed in the new rack, I now have an additional 12TB RAID 5 array available.

When needed, I can use the remaining SATA connection on the SFF 8088 cable to connect another drive for cloning.

So, bottom line, I doubled my NAS storage from 12TB to 24TB, Doubled my existing SAS Raid array from 4TB to 8TB, and added and additional 12TB SAS Raid5 array to the system in an external rack.  My video library has lots of room to expand, and I have lots of room on the Frakenstation to mess around with virtual machines and such.


Here's a picture of the 5 bay rack I set up externally to my Frankenstation:


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 14, 2022)

Greenslade said:


> Everything is connected properly. I can all drives when starting up.





phreich said:


> I think you mean it "fails" to boot?


Yes. When adding a new drive into a system one must be careful to make sure the BIOS does not re-arrange the boot order, which can happen. If that happens, it's as simple as pointing the BIOS to the correct drive again. 99% of the time this will instantly solve the problem.


----------



## Greenslade (Sep 14, 2022)

phreich said:


> I think you mean it "fails" to boot?
> 
> It could be that it is trying to boot from that new drive, and is hanging up there.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that 


lexluthermiester said:


> Yes. When adding a new drive into a system one must be careful to make sure the BIOS does not re-arrange the boot order, which can happen. If that happens, it's as simple as pointing the BIOS to the correct drive again. 99% of the time this will instantly solve the problem.


Thanks for your valuable advice  Lex


lexluthermiester said:


> Yes. When adding a new drive into a system one must be careful to make sure the BIOS does not re-arrange the boot order, which can happen. If that happens, it's as simple as pointing the BIOS to the correct drive again. 99% of the time this will instantly solve the problem.


You have


lexluthermiester said:


> Yes. When adding a new drive into a system one must be careful to make sure the BIOS does not re-arrange the boot order, which can happen. If that happens, it's as simple as pointing the BIOS to the correct drive again. 99% of the time this will instantly solve the problem.





lexluthermiester said:


> Yes. When adding a new drive into a system one must be careful to make sure the BIOS does not re-arrange the boot order, which can happen. If that happens, it's as simple as pointing the BIOS to the correct drive again. 99% of the time this will Thanks for your info Lex instantly solve the problem.





lexluthermiester said:


> Yes. When adding a new drive into a system one must be careful to make sure the BIOS does not re-arrange the boot order, which can happen. If that happens, it's as simple as pointing the BIOS to the correct drive again. 99% of the time this will instantly solve the problem.


Thanks once again Lex


----------



## nootkabear (Sep 25, 2022)

ModemJunki said:


> Make sure it's connected at gigabit full duplex and have a look for "MTU tuning" in your favorite search engine.


Is that for wi-fi, or hardwired as well?
I am running hardwired, and can't seem to get the MTU tuning as described in the search engines


----------



## mplayerMuPDF (Nov 22, 2022)

I have been looking at Z400s and Z420s recently on eBay. Initially I was actually only interested in the case because of the 3 5.25" bays and was planning to just use a "for parts" Z400 as a 5.25" drive rack but when I realized that even the old Bloomfield-powered Z400 still has a decent amount of power I became more interesting in the rest of the components. Problem is, I don't trust such an old PSU, so I don't really want to connect any of my components to it. In fact, that is why I got rid of M91p in the first place (after which I just got a laptop to use as a desktop replacement) and subsequently built my current desktop (with which I am very dissatisfied as some of you may already know by now) with a new Seasonic Focus PSU. So I am thinking would it be a good idea to just replace the PSU in such a workstation with my Seasonic? I know that they use proprietary connectors and that you need an adapter. But how reliable are these adapters (I absolutely do not want to start a house fire because of some shoddy no-name adapter) and how difficult is it to replace the PSU with a regular ATX one?


----------



## phreich (Nov 22, 2022)

mplayerMuPDF said:


> I have been looking at Z400s and Z420s recently on eBay. Initially I was actually only interested in the case because of the 3 5.25" bays and was planning to just use a "for parts" Z400 as a 5.25" drive rack but when I realized that even the old Bloomfield-powered Z400 still has a decent amount of power I became more interesting in the rest of the components. Problem is, I don't trust such an old PSU, so I don't really want to connect any of my components to it. In fact, that is why I got rid of M91p in the first place (after which I just got a laptop to use as a desktop replacement) and subsequently built my current desktop (with which I am very dissatisfied as some of you may already know by now) with a new Seasonic Focus PSU. So I am thinking would it be a good idea to just replace the PSU in such a workstation with my Seasonic? I know that they use proprietary connectors and that you need an adapter. But how reliable are these adapters (I absolutely do not want to start a house fire because of some shoddy no-name adapter) and how difficult is it to replace the PSU with a regular ATX one?


@mplayerMuPDF 
With the price of the z440s coming way down over the past few months, I would recommend you go up a a generation and get something that supports the newer xeon e5-xxxx v3 and v4 processors, which have also come down in price.  You'll also get a boost by being able to use faster ddr4 memory (DDR4-2400T aka PC4-19200R ecc server memory).  This generation workstation is also capable of running Nvme SSDs, which offer a huge increase in IO over SATA drives.  The 700watt power supplies on these machines are >90% efficient, and has enough power for most purposes.  

I am running 6 SAS hard drives, a blu-ray drive, the slim format original dvd rewrite drive, a power hungry HP p812 server raid controller, an Nvidia GTX 1600 video card, and an Nvme SSD, with a 135W 8 core Xeon E5-4665 V4 processor, with 4 16Gb sticks of ddr4-2400T memory, and it is still not taxing the power supply.  With this configuration it uses 170 watts of power, so there's lots of power left....
​​


----------



## mplayerMuPDF (Nov 22, 2022)

phreich said:


> @mplayerMuPDF
> With the price of the z440s coming way down over the past few months, I would recommend you go up a a generation and get something that supports the newer xeon e5-xxxx v3 and v4 processors, which have also come down in price.  You'll also get a boost by being able to use faster ddr4 memory (DDR4-2400T aka PC4-19200R ecc server memory).  This generation workstation is also capable of running Nvme SSDs, which offer a huge increase in IO over SATA drives.  The 700watt power supplies on these machines are >90% efficient, and has enough power for most purposes.
> 
> I am running 6 SAS hard drives, a blu-ray drive, the slim format original dvd rewrite drive, a power hungry HP p812 server raid controller, an Nvidia GTX 1600 video card, and an Nvme SSD, with a 135W 8 core Xeon E5-4665 V4 processor, with 4 16Gb sticks of ddr4-2400T memory, and it is still not taxing the power supply.  With this configuration it uses 170 watts of power, so there's lots of power left....
> ​​


I know that there are nicer workstations out there but I would actually not be using this as my main system (and therefore I am looking to not spend too much on it). Just something to put ODDs in and ssh into when I need some extra power. If I replaced the PSU, I would put my HGST UltraStar in there as well, so it would be kind of like a home server except I would only power it on as needed since it is quite thirsty. Also, I am very happy with the SATA SSDs that I have had so far in my computers, so I will only get an NVMe drive in the future if the motherboard requires it. It is more important to me that an SSD has modest power consumption and runs cool, to be honest. I am also not worried at all about the capacity of the PSU, just the age.


----------



## phreich (Nov 22, 2022)

mplayerMuPDF said:


> I know that there are nicer workstations out there but I would actually not be using this as my main system (and therefore I am looking to not spend too much on it). Just something to put ODDs in and ssh into when I need some extra power. If I replaced the PSU, I would put my HGST UltraStar in there as well, so it would be kind of like a home server except I would only power it on as needed since it is quite thirsty. Also, I am very happy with the SATA SSDs that I have had so far in my computers, so I will only get an NVMe drive in the future if the motherboard requires it. It is more important to me that an SSD has modest power consumption and runs cool, to be honest. I am also not worried at all about the capacity of the PSU, just the age.


@mplayerMuPDF , I just looked on Ebay, and found barebones z440s being sold for $99 including shipping, and here are COMPLETE ones with free shipping selling for $119!:
HP Z440 Workstation Tower Xeon E5-1603 V3 2.80GHz 8GB RAM 500GB HDD








						HP Z440 Workstation Tower Xeon E5-1603 V3 2.80GHz 8GB RAM 500GB HDD  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for HP Z440 Workstation Tower Xeon E5-1603 V3 2.80GHz 8GB RAM 500GB HDD at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


----------



## mplayerMuPDF (Nov 23, 2022)

phreich said:


> I just looked on Ebay, and found barebones z440s being sold for $99 including shipping, and here are COMPLETE ones with free shipping selling for $119!:
> HP Z440 Workstation Tower Xeon E5-1603 V3 2.80GHz 8GB RAM 500GB HDD
> 
> 
> ...


looks like it has one less 5.25" bay though. That is a no go for me considering its intended purpose. Thanks for the effort though. I am fine with leaving the nicer, more modern and powerful ones for other people. I just need something that meets my requirements, doesn't matter if it isn't as fancy as it could be.


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## Greenslade (Nov 23, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Yes. When adding a new drive into a system one must be careful to make sure the BIOS does not re-arrange the boot order, which can happen. If that happens, it's as simple as pointing the BIOS to the correct drive again. 99% of the time this will instantly solve the problem.


The thing is a lot of the time I can,t get into the setting utility I think it is F2   to get in there.


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 23, 2022)

Greenslade said:


> The thing is a lot of the time I can,t get into the setting utility I think it is F2   to get in there.


F2, Del, F10 and even Esc are the common keys to enter the BIOS.


----------



## mplayerMuPDF (Nov 23, 2022)

Found a video on replacing the PSU with a regular ATX one and I would prefer to not do that but then I realized I could perhaps just install a new HP proprietary (Delta) PSU and I found one from a non-shady seller on eBay for a very good price, so I think I will be going that route. I will keep the old one as a spare. Pretty excited as I could get a very nice system for very little money (reminds me of when I got my first desktop, a refurbished M91p with i5-2400) and also be confident that it is not going destroy my components. So I guess I will be returning to Sandy Bridge for the third time   
Don't get me wrong, I would love to get a Haswell system; I have been fond of Haswell ever since I got my 2014 MacBook Air (sold years ago with damaged keyboard). Of course the PCIe SSD of the MacBook probably did help the overall perception (I came from a Sandy i3 laptop with 5400 RPM HDD)... Don't like Skylake and derivatives (although Comet Lake is ok as they have fixed the worst issues by then) and I think it is theoretically at least a big upgrade over Ivy but then I have never had an Ivy system. But anyway, it is not worth it to me to get a Z440 as I checked and it is hard to find a new replacement PSU and on top of that you lose one 5.25" drive bay and then there is the additional cost. 22 nm, AVX2 and higher IPC is nice but not _that_ nice.



lexluthermiester said:


> F2, Del, F10 and even Esc are the common keys to enter the BIOS.


Yep on newer EliteBooks (G3, G4), for example, it is Esc to enter the UEFI. While on my ProBook 645 G1 (Richland) it is F10 to enter the UEFI (and F9 to go directly to the boot menu). I think I have come across laptops that use F2 as well. I think on my Biostar Ryzen desktop it is also F2.


----------



## Greenslade (Nov 24, 2022)

mplayerMuPDF said:


> Found a video on replacing the PSU with a regular ATX one and I would prefer to not do that but then I realized I could perhaps just install a new HP proprietary (Delta) PSU and I found one from a non-shady seller on eBay for a very good price, so I think I will be going that route. I will keep the old one as a spare. Pretty excited as I could get a very nice system for very little money (reminds me of when I got my first desktop, a refurbished M91p with i5-2400) and also be confident that it is not going destroy my components. So I guess I will be returning to Sandy Bridge for the third time
> Don't get me wrong, I would love to get a Haswell system; I have been fond of Haswell ever since I got my 2014 MacBook Air (sold years ago with damaged keyboard). Of course the PCIe SSD of the MacBook probably did help the overall perception (I came from a Sandy i3 laptop with 5400 RPM HDD)... Don't like Skylake and derivatives (although Comet Lake is ok as they have fixed the worst issues by then) and I think it is theoretically at least a big upgrade over Ivy but then I have never had an Ivy system. But anyway, it is not worth it to me to get a Z440 as I checked and it is hard to find a new replacement PSU and on top of that you lose one 5.25" drive bay and then there is the additional cost. 22 nm, AVX2 and higher IPC is nice but not _that_ nice.
> 
> 
> Yep on newer EliteBooks (G3, G4), for example, it is Esc to enter the UEFI. While on my ProBook 645 G1 (Richland) it is F10 to enter the UEFI (and F9 to go directly to the boot menu). I think I have come across laptops that use F2 as well. I think on my Biostar Ryzen desktop it is also F2.


I am there with you about the PSU for the Workstation i have the z230 it is a good machine but that hack job you have to do to put a ATX PSU is a step to far for me.








 i don,t know why they did not put a standard  size PSU in there workstations. 

Good video from our old mate PHIL with an ATHLON and using a SSD. 







t=10  never headed of the motherboard.  And talking about the 5v rail.


----------



## Greenslade (Nov 25, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> F2, Del, F10 and even Esc are the common keys to enter the BIOS.


The thing is I could not see them mentioning how you get into the setup utility in the manual. The only one they mention on youtube about it is the F2 for Asus.
3DMARK03  889 on the Athlon 2400  PC  on the drive that is failing. 
And the £5  PC with a Pentium 4 2.8   892.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 25, 2022)

Greenslade said:


> The thing is I could not see them mentioning how you get into the setup utility in the manual. The only one they mention on youtube about it is the F2 for Asus.
> 3DMARK03  889 on the Athlon 2400  PC  on the drive that is failing.
> And the £5  PC with a Pentium 4 2.8   892.


For ASUS it's most common for it to be the Del key. As soon as you power on start tapping that key until you see the bios screen.


----------



## Greenslade (Nov 25, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> For ASUS it's most common for it to be the Del key. As soon as you power on start tapping that key until you see the bios screen.


Ok thanks Lex.


----------



## phreich (Nov 26, 2022)

@mplayerMuPDF , good luck with your build. Glad to hear you found the new power supply you wanted.

The prices on those z440's I found on Ebay and suggested to @mplayerMuPDF were just too good to pass up.  I negotiated with the seller of the "complete" ones to sell 2 of them at $100 each including shipping, and I'll build them up and sell them locally to fund an E-bike I am going to build with a brushless 1500W kit I got on the black friday amazon warehouse deals 20% off sale for $280 (not including the battery, which I am intending to build from scrap li-ion batteries and a charge controller). 

It's been nice to be able to leverage my experience with these z440s to build them up (with good components) and completed with valid OEM windows 10 Pro x64 OS and a suite of free and open source software installed and ready-to-go. (On these workstations the OEM wiindows key/license is programmed into the workstation's NVRAM so Windows 10 pro automatically activates.)  This has enabled me to pay for my tech upgrades from the profit I made selling them, (including my z440/z460 "Frankenstation"), and the folks who get them are delighted with their workstations.

I thought it might be interesting for some forum readers to know what I do to improve and add value to these machines, allowing me to sell them locally for more than what the basic machines with similar capabilities are selling for on Ebay.

*A story of two workstation upgrades:*
While these two workstations I bought are "complete" functioning machines, the hardware in them is really basic and not very useful as is, and they contain no os or software.  The only things I am re-using are the case and fans, power supply, motherboard, cpu cooler, DVD RW drive and the the two 8Gb sticks of server Ram.  But I got these machines for the price of a bare-bones machine so I'm not complaining....

*Here's how I plan to upgrade the hardware in these :*
1.  The processors in these "complete" z440s are just 4 core e5-1603 2.8ghz processors with 8gb ram, so I'll upgrade them.  I found a pair of 10 core e5-2660 v3 processors (2.6ghz, 3ghz turbo) on Ebay for $18 (best offer accepted).
2.  I'll upgrade both to 16gb of ram.  I found 2 matched 8gb sticks of ddr4-2400 server ram for $15 on Ebay (best offer accepted).  I'll take the 8gb stick from one unit and put it in the other to give it 16gb, and then put the matched pair I bought in the other unit.  
3.  The 500gb sata drive in them is pretty much worthless.  I'll add a new 256gb HP Nvme SSD for the OS and programs for $25 (including $5 for a pci-e Nvme adapter card) to each, and a refurbished hgst 4tb sata enterprise drive for a data drive for $39 each. 
4.  The video cards in these are also pretty minimal -- Nvidia nvs310 with only 512gb of ram.  I found a set of three amd radeon r240 1tb video cards for $24 on Ebay, so I'll have a spare in case one of them turns out to be bad.  These r240 video cards can't really handle 4K well (only at 30hz), but they do 1080P just fine, and they support UEFI secure boot.  Anybody wanting a good 4k experience on a 4k monitor or TV will need to upgrade to something like a nvidia gtx 1060 to get a nice smooth 4k experience (I use an nvidia gtx 1060 3gb card and it works fine on the 4k tv I use as my HTPC monitor).  If they want to do serious gaming they'll want to get something even better (and more expensive) than an nvidia gtx 1060.  New Video cards are still outrageously expensive due to crypto-mining, IMO.  
5.  I also will supply an "active" 4k capable displayport-to-hdmi adapter cable.  These sell for around $7 on Ebay.  I like these short adapter cables over the hard adapters that plug into the displayport because they don't require as much space behind the machine (the short adapter cable bends).  The fixed adapters don't flex or bend, requiring the back of the workstation be pulled away from a wall by not only the length of the fixed adapter, but also the HDMI plug that's plugged into it which adds up to almost 5 inches given an allowance to make sure the plugged in HDMI cable doesn't get a crimp in it.  I've also broken one of these non-cable adapters by accidentally hitting it sideways while it was plugged in.  The short cable adapters solve all of these issues.

*Aside:* If anyone here is interested in any of the parts I am replacing (cpus, graphics cards, sata drives), I'll be selling them cheap -- contact me via PM and make me an offer....

*So my total cost for each upgraded machine will be:* $100 for the z440 + $9 (better cpu) + $7.50 (8gb ram added to make 16gb) + $25 (256Gb Nvme SSD and pci-e adapter for the OS drive) + $38 (4tb HGST refurbished enterprise grade Sata drive with 5yr warranty for the data drive), + $8 (1tb AMD Radeon R240 display card), + $7.50 (displayport to HDMI adapter cable) = $195 total hardware cost.

*The open source and free software suite I install includes:*
1.  Libre Office (a complete full-featured replacement for Microsoft Office, that can read and write to it's own native file types as well as MS office file types.)
2.  Bullzip PDF printer and Bullzip PDF reader (a much lighter and more capable set of PDF utilities than Adobe Acrobat Reader.  Among things it can do that Adobe reader won't is to concatenate a pdf to an existing pdf.
3.  Greenshot screen shot utility.  This is a very powerful complete screenshot utility that can output to multiple file types, can do full or cropped screen shots and more.
4.  VLC media player (can play just about any format of media file (sound or video) you throw at it, and with just a few extra additions can even play blu-ray disks.
5.  7zip file compression/archive tool that can compress/decompress/add-to just about any compressed format from RAR to zip.
6.  HWINFO64 a free Hardware information tool that shows you just about every part and real-time sensor status in the system.
7.  Macrium Reflect (a drive image backup/restore tool, that also allows you to "mount" an image and access individual files on it.)
8.  Firefox (an open source web browser that doesn't track your activities and monetize them like Chrome does).  I pre-install the following add-ons for Firefox:
. Ublock Origin (in my opinion, the best current open source browser add-blocker and anti-tracker).​. AdBlocker for YouTube™ (aka Clean YouTube™)  This add-on not only seems to block most ads in in the browser version of Youtube, but it also seems to work in browser version of Hulu.​9.  Ocean reader (a reader/browser/search engine/text extractor/audio reader of the sacred religious texts of most all of the major world faiths).
10.  Zoom meeting software (the pandemic isn't completely done, and lots of meetings are still happening on Zoom).

*Some Windows 10 settings I changed from defaults to make it easier to use:*
1.  I enabled the windows 7 quick-start toolbar, and place shortcuts for commonly used programs and utilities there.
2.  I installed a copy of the "old" windows 7 style calculator, which many people prefer over the "modern" version shipping with windows 10.  Both are available on the workstation.
3.  I removed of most of the bloatware that comes pre-installed with windows 10.
4.  I cleaned up the desktop to only include icons for frequently used programs, and added shortcuts for the command prompt and control panel, and turned off the option to have wallpapers move desktop items around.
5.  I turned off the intrusive "suggestions" that windows has baked into it to suggest unwanted upgrades, as well as unnecessary voluntary data submissions to Microsoft and others, and turned off Microsoft's windows update "sharing" feature with other computers.
6.  I turned on local private trusted network sharing and discovery, and enable the "public" data stores (which allows easy, but secured data sharing across the local trusted private network.  Others on the local network can't see into any directories on the workstation except the shared public folders, and these "public" folders are not accessible from non-private untrusted networks.
7.  I set the windows explorer view options to default to "details", "show known file type extensions", "show hidden files", and had this applied to all directories.

*My method for loading the OS and software is this:*
1.  I'll install all of the hardware upgrades in the workstation.
2.  I'll do a fresh install of windows from the HP windows 10 image onto one of the 500gb sata drives they supplied with the machines.
3.  I'll install the free "magical jelly bean" cd key decrypter/reader and use it to get the automatically generated OEM CD key from that installation, and save it to the hard drive.  
4.  I'll install the free disk imaging utility Macrium Reflect so I can do full image restores of drive images backups taken from the last z440 I built and sold.  I find this utility to be more reliable and easier to use than most other freeware utilities, and much better than the free versions of Acronis True Image that Western Digital and Seagate provide to do disk cloning -- those are restricted to only work if you have their drives in the system, and also don't have full functionality.
5.  Then I'll restore/load the data drive image from one of the previously sold z440s onto the 4tb data drive.  That drive image contains copies of these drive images and also has directories of all the z440 manuals, drivers and utilities, has copies of all the open source installation software installers, and has the windows data folders and swap file already on it.  
6.  Once the data drive restore is done, I'll save the cd key from the utility in step 3 onto the documents folder of that data drive, for the owner's reference..
7. Then I'll restore/load the ssd os-drive image from one of the previously sold z440s onto the Nvme ssd, which will become the new boot drive. That image contains the Windows Pro x64 OEM OS, which has all the updates applied and all drivers installed, has a full suite of freeware and open source software installed, and is fully configured with all data folders and swap file pointing to the 4tb data drive.  I have the data directories and swap file on the data drive to minimize the writes being written to the SSD which will lengthen it's operating life.
8.  I'll shut down the machine, remove the 500gb drive, and reboot using the 256Gb Nvme SSD.
9. Then I'll use the windows activation tool to change the cd key to the one from step 3 so the machine has the unique OEM cd-key that belongs to it.
10.  I'll do a quick check to make sure that all is functioning and the data directories and swap file are pointing to the 4Tb data drive.
11.  I'll upgrade the Bios if necessary, and will upgrade the TPM module to 2.0 using HP's utility,
12.  I'll run the windows update utility and make sure all updates are applied.  I'll update any of the programs that have been updated since the last backup was done.
13.  I'll use the Macrium Reflect utility to take an image of the new OS drive, putting that onto the 4tb data drive as a backup and copy that to my NAS for the next machine.
14.  I'll use the Greenshot screen shot utility to capture the HWINFO64 summary screen for the upcoming Craigslist posting.

Once all of this is done, I'll post an ad for the upgraded machine on Craigslist, and repeat the process for the other machine.

*Time investment:*
It takes about 1-2 hours each time I do a batch of these machines to source and order the parts (often requires doing best offer negotiation) and about 1 to 1.5 hours of my time to do the upgrades (I can do other stuff while images are loading and updates are being applied), and about 15 minutes to post the craigslist ad (I re-use the text from my previous ads).  I spend about 1/2 hour responding to CL ads, and another 1/2 hour doing the sale and demonstration/orientation to the purchaser.  So that's a total time investment of around 4.25 hours spent on each machine.  Of course, if I was doing all of this from scratch each time it would be many more hours, but leveraging off of previous work minimizes this, and the customers get a lot for their money.

*Ending thoughts:*
When I started doing this a couple of years ago I was able to sell these machines for between $550-$600 (but the barebones systems and components cost more then too).  I can't demand that much for them any more, but I sold the last two I had prior to this purchase about a month ago for $450 each -- so there is still demand for these workstations in this configuration, with everything loaded, legal and ready-to-go.  I figure I probably save the purchasers at least 20 hours of research and labor that would be involved to get these machines built to this capability and ready-to-go.  That's time I spent when I got my original machine getting it going and set up.  

*I enjoy meeting the buyers:*
The people who buy these workstations are pretty interesting, and not your "average folks" -- some are engineers doing cad design, others are doing gaming, others lots of media editing, one guy is a professional pilot wanting to run good flight emulation software.  Curiously, I've only sold one to a woman -- I'm not sure why that is.  

*No warranty, but do provide some support:*
I don't provide a warranty as this is used equipment and I don't have any control over what they do to it after it leaves my hands.  These are really robust machines, so I have not had any fail on me or on a buyer.  However, I tell the buyers they can call me for "limited" support if they need it. I have helped some find more memory for a good price, recommended video card upgrades, and helped them with video power adapters (the guy didn't know that 6 pin to 8pin video power adapters existed -- he had thought he might have to replace the power supply), and one fellow had a situation where it wouldn't boot that I diagnosed over the phone to be a dead cmos battery -- he had left it idle and unplugged for a couple of months and his bios settings had gotten corrupted when the battery died.

*Interesting custom build:*
One of the more memorable customers was one I met this year that I did a custom build for with one of these workstations.  I built it with redundant OS and data drives and a server raid controller to run a theater pipe-organ for a local non-profit that shows silent films in a restored 1920's era movie theater.  

This was an interesting build with both the OS and data drives in raid-1 using an LSI server raid controller, and configured to automatically boot and run their pipe-organ software on power-up from a non-administrator account. Because it is a true production environment, they needed the redundancy to get the shows up and going regardless of a drive failure -- hence the two raid-1 mirrored arrays.

I had originally thought I would use one of the native Windows software raid methods to accomplish this, which I knew of, but had not personally used.  In the process I learned a lot about how the native raid in windows works (or rather, doesn't work for NVMe boot drives).  Windows has multiple ways to do their native software raid, but none of them worked well enough to be reliable, and the onboard motherboard Intel chipset raid capability is also not robust enough for a production environment.  All of these solutions have no provision for write cache protection -- meaning that data could/would be lost if the system hung or there was a loss of power.  

The solution was the use of an enterprise grade hardware raid controller with a capacitor backed up write cache, which a used LSI 9270-CV 8i server raid controller had. The card was reasonably priced on Ebay, and came with Dell OEM firmware on it, which I overwrote with the original LSI firmware so the card could be managed using the LSI Megaraid utilities.  I was familiar with how these server raid cards work because I have an HP P812 server raid card in my media "Frankenstation" controlling a couple of external raid-5 arrays.  I chose the LSI controller because it is a simpler card to manage, is less power hungry, and the customer didn't need external ports.  

*Down the "rabbit-hole":*
So, what at first seemed a straight-forward addition of a couple of drives and the use of one of the software raid methods, turned into a bit of a "rabbit-hole" into which, like the proverbial Alice, I fell.  After many hours of researching and trying varying options, I consulted with the buyer, and we agreed upon the robust server raid controller solution.  Due to the issues with getting any raid to work with the Nvme boot drives, we swapped them for a pair of SATA SSDs, which work with the raid controller.  I donated my hours getting all this figured out and working to their non-profit as an in-kind contribution -- they may give me some passes to see some of the movies, which will be fun.....

*Aside: *Interestingly, LSI doesn't have any raid controller that offer the mixed ports or the number of ports the HP P812 has -- I am not sure why that is.  A guess is that maybe LSI's philosophy is that you should have separate raid controllers for internal and external uses, or maybe by limiting the number of ports, they reduce the stress on the hardware?  I do know that my HP P812 is power hungry and generates a lot of heat probably because it has circuitry and processing power to handle the 2 internal and 4 external ports -- I use one of the z460 dual case fans to blow air across it to help keep it cooler.

*About capacitor backed write cache raid controllers:*
The way the capacitor backed write cache works on these raid controllers is that when the card sees a loss of power or a system hang, using the power in the capacitors it writes out the current write cache and destination address to the card's non-volatile memory and then shuts down. When using these controllers, you turn off the hardware write caching on the drives themselves so that the controller handles this, and thus prevent data loss.  Also, because the write cache in the raid controller card isn't cleared until the drive signals a successful write has occurred, if the power fails when the drive is writing data, it isn't lost -- it is re-written out to the same logical address by the raid controller.  
This is how the cache data recovery works: 
When the computer reboots, the raid card first looks to see if there is something in its non-volatile memory, and then writes it out to the drives before completing it's boot processing.  The benefit of this over the older battery protected raid controllers is that there is no time limit for this recovery.  With the older battery protected controllers, if the computer/server wasn't rebooted quickly enough the battery would become exhausted and the data would be lost.  This newer method prevents that.  The capacitors also don't typically wear out and almost instantly recharge, unlike the batteries which take time to recharge, and wear out over time, so the newer method is more reliable and requires lower maintenance as well.

I hope the details of my z440 workstation hardware and software upgrade choices and reasons have been interesting to some of you.

Thanks for reading,

Philip
​


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## Greenslade (Nov 26, 2022)

Is a
ATX
305mm x 244mm
9 mounting holes
Is this a full-sized motherboard
I have looked it up and it is  A full-size ATX board that has a height of 305mm and a width of 244mm, or 12 x 9.6 inches. When you’re planning a build, if you’re picking up an ATX motherboard, you’re going to want to pair it with an ATX-compatible PC case. These can either be super-towers, full-towers, middle-towers, or mini-towers. As long as they’re built to support the ATX format, then the board will fit 10/10 times.


As I  want to get a case for it, see my post  here
A case for. MSI P45D3 Platinum (MS-7513) motherboard​


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## Greenslade (Nov 27, 2022)

What do people think of this case ?Does this case come with all the leads needed  for a motherboard i see it has the motherboard headers and off course the fans but what about the other leads and conecter.s  for the Motherboard?



The reason i am asking weather the case comes with all the leads needed to be connected to the Motherboard,  i see there are about 10 connections ?  on the Motherboard see 910.Dell Motherboard only has 3 connections 911.Do all those 10 connections on my new Motherboard need to be used, ?and why does Dell only have 3 connections on theres?. I can,t see that the case would have 10 leads for connecting to the Motherboard.as you are all aware I have never built a PC before.One good thing on the Motherboard is that there is a switch that i can be used with out putting it in a case.I see that a lot of PC,s don,t have that switch. I wish someone can answer this, if the case has all the leads needed to make the Motherboard work I will buy it.

Just watched this video so you don,t have to use all those connections on the board.I see it has USB3  that will be no good for me because the my board only has USB2. 










 Why are there so many connections on my Motherboard when you only have to connect what he has connected.? 


I have just got in touch with the guy 











 I take it the

case 

 have all these leads for the motherboard.


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 28, 2022)

There this;








						New Portable USB 3.0 20-pin Header Male to USB 2.0 9-pin Female Adapter Black  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for New Portable USB 3.0 20-pin Header Male to USB 2.0 9-pin Female Adapter Black at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				



That case is newer than I thought it was. Still, easily solved with an inexpensive adapter.


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## Greenslade (Nov 29, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> There this;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought it looked older myself. I have just looked at that adapter
USB 3.0 20 pin to 9 pin Motherboard Male Header to Female USB 2.0 Cable Adapter
£2.50  and that,s all i need.




Can,t get this crap heatsink on the motherboard.  I was looking forward to building a PC.  At least I know how to do it now.


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## Greenslade (Nov 30, 2022)

Phil finally shows his face. Nice to put a face to the voice


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 30, 2022)

Greenslade said:


> Phil finally shows his face. Nice to put a face to the voice


He's been doing that for a while. Look through his video history.


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## Greenslade (Nov 30, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> He's been doing that for a while. Look through his video history.


I have not seen one of him showing his face before.


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 30, 2022)

Greenslade said:


> I have not seen one of him showing his face before.


He's been doing it for a few weeks.


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## Greenslade (Nov 30, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> He's been doing it for a few weeks.


Oh that is why ,i have only seen his old ones.



lexluthermiester said:


> He's been doing it for a few weeks.


 What do you think of it?Whats that freezer 13 thing  













phreich said:


> I think you mean it "fails" to boot?
> 
> It could be that it is trying to boot from that new drive, and is hanging up there.
> 
> ...


It was a typo 


My build
Motherboard    £5
Q6600 Cpu      £7
Heatsink  Fan  £10  or new boxed £13
PSU                 £4
Adapter           £2.50
Case               £20
Total cost        £48.50 or with the boxed Heatsink £51.50
The eBay PC has the Corsair 600m PSU and GTX460 and am SSD.and BioShock
Remastered installed?
Does not seem much point in me building the PC with the difference of me building it
£13.50 or with the opened not used Heatsink.£10.50 plus the fact I will have to install the Heatsink fan. Have you heard of the Evaluation case?

I think I will go for this instead of building a PC.


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## Greenslade (Dec 1, 2022)

, intel Q6600,
BioShock remastered installed.
*Frontal USB don't seem to work (maybe not connected, or connected wrong ?*
That's the only bad thing I just sawThat,s a good make of PSUThis is £62
My build
Motherboard    £5
Q6600 Cpu      £7
Heatsink  Fan  £10  or new boxed £13
PSU                 £4
Adapter           £2.50
Case               £20
Total cost        £48.50 or with the boxed Heatsink £51.50
The eBay PC has the Corsair 600m PSU and GTX460 and am SSD.and BioShock
Remastered installed?
Does not seem much point in me building the PC with the difference of me building it
£13.50 or with the opened not used Heatsink.£10.50 plus the fact I will have to install the Heatsink fan. Have you heard of the evaluation case?


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## phreich (Dec 5, 2022)

Just curious -- what does this build have to do with HP workstations?

This thread is for discussions related to HP workstations....  you should probably move the discussion for this non-workstation build to another thread....


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## Greenslade (Dec 5, 2022)

phreich said:


> Just curious -- what does this build have to do with HP workstations?
> 
> This thread is for discussions related to HP workstations....  you should probably move the discussion for this non-workstation build to another thread....


I guess you are right i did not think about putting it on another forum ,I guess i should have put it on the Retro Forum.


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## 386 (Dec 28, 2022)

Alright I need some help. I have a z440 with a Xeon E5 2640 V3, I have applied the "X99 Turbo Boost Unlock" hack and it runs very well. I want some more single thread performance though than I have however, so I was thinking of getting a 1650 V3 or 1660 V3 and overclocking it, but it looks a bit difficult. Do I really need a liquid cooler for this or can I just get a good air cooler. I also saw that the cooler uses a proprietary connector so could i get an adapter?


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 28, 2022)

386 said:


> Alright I need some help. I have a z440 with a Xeon E5 2640 V3, I have applied the "X99 Turbo Boost Unlock" hack and it runs very well. I want some more single thread performance though than I have however, so I was thinking of getting a 1650 V3 or 1660 V3 and overclocking it, but it looks a bit difficult.


Hey Welcome to TPU! If you're going to go for some OCing in that system(I presume you're going to use ThrottleStop), the 1660v3 is good, the 1680v3 would be a bit better as they're binned better. Avoid the 1650, you lose two cores. 1660v3 or 1680v3 is my advice.


386 said:


> Do I really need a liquid cooler for this or can I just get a good air cooler. I also saw that the cooler uses a proprietary connector so could i get an adapter?


The stock cooler in the Z440 is rated for 165W so as long as you don't go crazy, you can get a decent OC with it. Likely 4ghz with either one of those CPUs.


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