# My network crashes TOO much...



## winterwonderland (Jun 7, 2010)

We are 3 people connected (wired) to our DSL-router. The other 2 people are experiencing some lag and whenever either of us start to download a file with torrent, the connection dies/goes offline/reboots itself. 2 of us got static IP if that matters. I've adjusted the torrent stuff as shown on several guides etc. Perhaps the gateways are crashing or something? This has been an issue for the last week. Hella annoying. We are all using Windows 7 and we've all formated our PC's...

Any suggestions on what could be wrong and how to fix this?


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## Fourstaff (Jun 7, 2010)

Brand, model no and firmware version of routers? your ISP? Wired or wireless connection?


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## newtekie1 (Jun 7, 2010)

You are likely overloading the router with connections when torrenting.


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## OnBoard (Jun 7, 2010)

newtekie1 said:


> You are likely overloading the router with connections when torrenting.



That. There is a timeout value in connections and they stay active long time after connection has already been closed. Say the router max active connections is few hundred, once it's reached browser will just give timeouts. Well in your case even worse.

D-Link DIR-615 handless many connections fine. You need a similar or better router for multiple user/torrent stuff.

But in the mean time limit download/upload way under line maximum. Limit global connections to 100 and disable DHT.


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## winterwonderland (Jun 8, 2010)

ok.. let's see...

global connections on my utorrent is now set to 100... DHT was disabled already.

hmm.. limit the download/upload, huh? does that go for all 3 of us? our max speed is 1800 kb/s, so splitting that would mean 600 kb/s each... huh? our upload = 100 kb/s...

another thing i forgot to mention that we've got a D-link DES1008D connceted to our DSL-router (which is required to get the connection, of course)... and all 3 of us are connected to the min DSL-router. perhaps that's the cause, or? the DSL-router = SpeedTouch ST546 w/software 7.4.1.7. our connection is WIRED. no wireless are connected. isp = nextgentel.com

so... how do i change this timeout or that's not perhaps possible? i saw something about timeout a while ago, but i forgot where.. heh.


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## timta2 (Jun 8, 2010)

What about the other two users? If they both have 100 global connections that would be 300 total. You might want to reduce them on all of the machines. You could also ask that everyone cap their bandwidth at certain percentage of your total bandwidth (Say 500KB/30KB). 

You might also want to make sure that your router's firmware is up to date. A newer more robust router might help.

 I used to have problems with torrents crashing my old Linkys BEFSR41 (V1.0) until I reduced demand on it. It's not even a concern with my new router.


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## slyfox2151 (Jun 8, 2010)

make sure u keep your upload speed less then 75 % of the max you have.


if you run out of upload bandwidth your connection will die.


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## OnBoard (Jun 8, 2010)

minstreless said:


> hmm.. limit the download/upload, huh? does that go for all 3 of us? our max speed is 1800 kb/s, so splitting that would mean 600 kb/s each... huh? our upload = 100 kb/s...
> 
> so... how do i change this timeout or that's not perhaps possible? i saw something about timeout a while ago, but i forgot where.. heh.



So you all 3 torrent, ouch  One machine torrenting is enough already to kill a router/connection 

Don't think there is and option for connection timeout, on my router they stay open for like 10min.



slyfox2151 said:


> make sure u keep your upload speed less then 75 % of the max you have.
> 
> if you run out of upload bandwidth your connection will die.



Yep, that would be the most important. Download speed can be higher that 3rd, it will be limited by available bandwidth if many of you are downloading at the same time. Something like 900kb/s & 40kb/s could be optimum, should work with two of you using torrent and still maybe get webpage open from third 



timta2 said:


> What about the other two users? If they both have 100 global connections that would be 300 total. You might want to reduce them on all of the machines.



That too, doesn't help if only one has connection limits, other machines will bring router down once they start torrent. Even the 100 on all computers would be a start, should help with the crashes if all of you aren't using torrent same time. Drop to 75 if 100 is still too much on "prime time".

And finally limit the amount of max active torrents, 2 would be top for that connection. Too many open even if connection and bandwidth limits are in place will start to limit web availability.


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## Mussels (Jun 8, 2010)

set your upload (total between all of you) to 50% of your max upload. upload is the most important part here, so you NEED it lag free.


Your download should be ok if you get about 25% of the max speed each - 75% total.

Set your maximum connections to 50 each, and you'll be ok.



to be honest, you really need to get all the torrents on one machine and set up a scheduler so that it only downloads in the periods when no one is home/asleep.


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## slyfox2151 (Jun 8, 2010)

Why dont you use UTorrent with WEBUI.



you can then use one pc for all torrents, its very simple to setup.
intsall utorrent to one pc, then enable WEBUI and set port to use.


now you can add torrents and control them via a web browser.


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## Mussels (Jun 8, 2010)

slyfox2151 said:


> Why dont you use UTorrent with WEBGUI.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



you still have to add the webui zip file manually, they havent integrated it into µtorrent yet


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## newtekie1 (Jun 8, 2010)

Mussels said:


> you still have to add the webui zip file manually, they havent integrated it into µtorrent yet



The WebGUI has been integrated in utorrent for several versions now, there is no need to add the webui zip file anymore.

Edit: It isn't exactly bundled with utorrent really.  In stead the WebUI zip file is automatically downloaded and put in the proper place when you enable the WebUI in the preferences.


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## Mussels (Jun 8, 2010)

newtekie1 said:


> The WebGUI has been integrated in utorrent for several versions now, there is no need to add the webui zip file anymore.
> 
> Edit: It isn't exactly bundled with utorrent really.  In stead the WebUI zip file is automatically downloaded and put in the proper place when you enable the WebUI in the preferences.



ah yes, its integrated... except its not and you gotta download it. 

the auto download doesnt always work either, didnt for me on three systems.


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## slyfox2151 (Jun 8, 2010)

it auto downloaded for me on both windows 7 and fedora. (wine). iv yet to see it not work.


just type in 127.0.0.1:yourport/gui on the system you want to run it from.


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## GSG-9 (Jun 8, 2010)

This thread was really helpful to me, I have a D-Link DIR-615 and I get frequent (2-3 a week) timeouts, but my connection is set to 300 and I have DHT enabled. When I get home I will do some tweaking and I bet/hope I won't have that problem anymore.


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## winterwonderland (Jun 8, 2010)

ok.. let's see if this will work out... we've gone down to 50 connections on each pc. we've put our u/l speed to 24 kb/s each (our max u/l speed = 96 kb/s, so 24 x 3 = 72 kb/s = 75%, ye?) we've put our d/l speed to 600 kb/s each (our max d/l speed = 1800 kb/s, so 600 x 3 = 1800 kb/s, yes?) and here's the rest of my utorrent settings (using utorrent 1.7.7 because of private trackers not allowing other clients):

connection:
enable upnp port mapping = disabled
enable nat-pmp port mapping = enabled
proxy server = none
max u/l = 24
max d/l = 600

bittorrent:
global max no. of connections = 50
max no. of connected peers per torrent = 50
no. of u/l slots per torrent = 4

enable dht network = disabled
enable dht for new torrents = enabled (should be disabled, yes?)
enable local peer discovery = enabled
ask tracker for scrape info = enabled
enable peer exchange = enabled
limit local peer b/w = disabled

queueing:
max no. of active torrents = 5
max no. of active d/l = 5

advanced:
net.max_halfopen = 8
the rest is untouched

any settings that we should change, or? remember, we're talking about 3 computers/users here.

we've all agreed to NOT put up a webui and use 1 computer to download.

hmm.. i wonder how to install a new firmware for both my routers...

anything else that we should change?

just so it's been said... it worked with 100 connections each for about 12 hrs or something. it then died. we'll see how it'll work now...


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## slyfox2151 (Jun 8, 2010)

if the trackers are down or there a Few seeds, DHT should be enabled, it will help find more people to connect to .


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## winterwonderland (Jun 8, 2010)

ok. and what about the rest? it looks ok or?


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## GSG-9 (Jun 8, 2010)

minstreless said:


> hmm.. i wonder how to install a new firmware for both my routers...
> 
> anything else that we should change?



I did not see any information about your D-link DES1008D on D-Links site, they did have a D-link DES1008PA but I don't think that is going to help you.
There should be an option to install new firmware in the settings(@ 192.168.0.1 or what ever it is for your router) and there should be a firmware option


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## slyfox2151 (Jun 8, 2010)

why not give it ago, test it out for a few days and ajust the settings if requierd. there really is no way to give you the right numbers without being able to test your exact setup


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## winterwonderland (Jun 8, 2010)

ok. i will give it a go and see how it works out... thanks for the help! will tell ya if this doesn't work... hehe.

about the d-link... hmm... i can't seem to connect to it... tried the above ip as well as 10.0.0.1, but i then get to my dsl-router.


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## slyfox2151 (Jun 8, 2010)

Wait, how many routers do you have on your network?


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## GSG-9 (Jun 8, 2010)

minstreless said:


> about the d-link... hmm... i can't seem to connect to it... tried the above ip as well as 10.0.0.1, but i then get to my dsl-router.



Im not sure how it works when you have two routers... 



slyfox2151 said:


> Wait, how many routers do you have on your network?



He has the dsl router and he has a dlink hub


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## slyfox2151 (Jun 8, 2010)

can you give a quick run down on the exact layout of your network.

how many routers, pc's, switches, modems.

and who is connected to what device.


a HUB? maybe that is whats killing your network.


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## winterwonderland (Jun 8, 2010)

ok.. let's see...

there are 3 pc's. we've got a d-link router and a dsl-router, the d-link is connected wiredly to the dsl-router. all 3 of us are connected to the dsl-router now. the d-link hub is connected to it as well, so now all 4 ports on the dsl-router are now in use. the hub (the d-link router) got a laptop and a dreambox connected to it. only dreambox is running/active now.

maybe we should connect other ways, hmm? like, all 3 of us to the hub and nothing except the hub is connected to the dsl-router?


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## OnBoard (Jun 8, 2010)

slyfox2151 said:


> if the trackers are down or there a Few seeds, DHT should be enabled, it will help find more people to connect to .



That would be the case if router has no problems. But DHT causes $!#%loads of connections in very short period of time, making things worse.

If it's private tracker DHT isn't even allowed. I'd enable it just if tracker is down or there are no seeds, else keep it disabled.



minstreless said:


> ok. and what about the rest? it looks ok or?



max no. of active torrents is very high, I'd go with 2.



minstreless said:


> ok.. let's see...
> 
> there are 3 pc's. we've got a d-link router and a dsl-router, the d-link is connected wiredly to the dsl-router. all 3 of us are connected to the dsl-router now. the d-link hub is connected to it as well, so now all 4 ports on the dsl-router are now in use. the hub (the d-link router) got a laptop and a dreambox connected to it. only dreambox is running/active now.
> 
> maybe we should connect other ways, hmm? like, all 3 of us to the hub and nothing except the hub is connected to the dsl-router?



Hmm, why not everything to the d-link router and router to the dsl-modem? Lappy would fit there too and dreambox could go to the dsl-modem/router thing. That of course if the router has a better CPU than the modem. But they usually do, those modem-router-firewalls combinations have caused biggest broblems for me. Router-firewall + dsl-modem works better.


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## OnBoard (Jun 8, 2010)

GSG-9 said:


> This thread was really helpful to me, I have a D-Link DIR-615 and I get frequent (2-3 a week) timeouts, but my connection is set to 300 and I have DHT enabled. When I get home I will do some tweaking and I bet/hope I won't have that problem anymore.



Same thing here, I use 250, no DHT and 2 active download + 1 upload. Reset maybe once a month. Give those a whirl


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## currahee440 (Jun 8, 2010)

Only so much can fit in a network. I'd start adding things one by one if I were you because it looks like you use a LOT of bandwidth. The main thing it looks like is if the 615 can handle all the traffic. 
I think the 615 has QoS. If it does you could try turning that on. It seems to work very well for some users.


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## winterwonderland (Jun 8, 2010)

hmm.. i see. well, i've tried with the mentioned settings, and now we'll see how this will work out.

currahee - QoS? hmm.. not sure... i'll try to look for that. what does it do? *googles*

alrite. will reduce the active downloads to 2 then.

onboard - ok. will try that once the connection dies again.


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## currahee440 (Jun 8, 2010)

QoS is like network neutrality I think. It starts to prioritize network traffic so bittorrenting might be a bit slower but you might notice an improvement in your network performance.


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## OnBoard (Jun 8, 2010)

minstreless said:


> currahee - QoS? hmm.. not sure... i'll try to look for that. what does it do? *googles*



That was just DIR-615 specific. Quality of Service. You can set priorities to different types of connections/ports so that you could always get web pages open, if something else is already using all the bandwith or streaming a webcast. This thing does that also automatically.

Hope it's working better


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## winterwonderland (Jun 9, 2010)

bwah... this really sucks. i tried moving all 3 of us over to the bloody D-link router and the dreambox + lappy to the DSL-router... now neither of us can run static ip's because it won't work... for some reason. CRAP! and the download speed i am getting from utorrent has turned out to be CRAP! can barely reach to 15 kb/s now. even with a torrent that has 8000 seeders... and i am sure it's because of the static ip thingy... what the hell do i do now?

and how do i know how many max connections my router can handle before it crashes..? any way to find it out, or?

sorry, don't mean to sound to whiny about this... it has just been frustrating me for so long...


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## OnBoard (Jun 9, 2010)

Oh yeah, it's not just plug in and go  Easiest is to plug them like they used to, sry 

Problem with that setup is that you need make the router bridged, so that doesn't try to NAT the connection or do other firewall stuff. Slow speed comes with no ports open for torrent (no green face) and that would be another configuration  Then there is the thing that in bridged mode only one port might work, as everything is passed through it unchanged. That could leave the laptop + dreambox not working.

About the max connections, just have to try.

(default gateway would also need to be changed, probably why static IP doesn't work, but best to stick on how it was plugged, will just end up not working at all )


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