# AMD Radeon HD 7990 Launch Date Revealed



## btarunr (Apr 17, 2013)

Market launch of AMD's Radeon HD 7990 "Malta" dual-GPU graphics card is less than a week away, according to an OCaholic report. Sources told the publication that AMD plans to launch its flagship graphics card on the 24th of April, 2013. According to it, reviews of the card should already be underway. AMD Radeon HD 7990 is the company's flagship graphics card, featuring a pair of 28 nm "Tahiti" GPUs. According to specifications derived from older reports, it packs a total of 4096 stream processors, and 6 GB of GDDR5 memory across two 384-bit wide memory interfaces. What sets this card apart from the HD 7990 "New Zealand" launched last year by AMD's partners is the power-optimizations AMD put into it, leaving the card to draw power from "just" two 8-pin PCIe power connectors, and make do with a dual-slot cooling solution.





*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## VulkanBros (Apr 17, 2013)

Let´s see some reviews


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## adulaamin (Apr 17, 2013)

I hope they have working crossfire drivers by then. If not, there will be a lot of complaints.


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## Mathragh (Apr 17, 2013)

adulaamin said:


> I hope they have working crossfire drivers by then. If not, there will be a lot of complaints.



Oeh indeed, I suppose they'll atleast have some beta drivers ready for crossfire by that time!(or perhaps even at the moment, for those reviewers working on reviewing those cards so they can publish an article about them the 24th)


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## Bjorn_Of_Iceland (Apr 17, 2013)

690 pricedrops yeah!


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## KissSh0t (Apr 17, 2013)

Foot Long here.. get your foot long.. it's going to be Red & Hot..


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## RCoon (Apr 17, 2013)

This seems like a disturbingly early release, in terms of drivers anyway. Everyone has been saying this card SHOULD come out when frame latencies are fixed and when crossfire is a little more reliable. Unless AMD has fixed said issues, this might not be a very comfortable release.
If there's a driver that fixes things, I'll be buying one of these in the coming months for definite.


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## jigar2speed (Apr 17, 2013)

btarunr said:


> According to it, reviews of the card should already be underway



heh, why don't you say it upfront that you already tasted the beast.


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## jigar2speed (Apr 17, 2013)

adulaamin said:


> I hope they have working crossfire drivers by then. If not, there will be a lot of complaints.



This is getting old, i am getting tired of this driver crap shots that starts as soon as AMD card's news are posted, there seems to be a pattern, as if some people are trying to brainwash other readers.


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## dj-electric (Apr 17, 2013)

jigar2speed said:


> heh, why don't you say it upfront that you already tasted the beast.



Scumbag TPU stuff, has card, posting other's rumors about it


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## btarunr (Apr 17, 2013)

Dj-ElectriC said:


> Scumbag TPU stuff, has card, posting other's rumors about it



You're welcome.


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## adulaamin (Apr 17, 2013)

jigar2speed said:


> This is getting old, i am getting tired of this driver crap shots that starts as soon as AMD card's news are posted, there seems to be a pattern, as if some people are trying to brainwash other readers.



yeah I'm brainwashing readers to believe AMD drivers are less than spectacular when it comes to crossfire. I guess it's not working since it's only pissing some people off.


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## W1zzard (Apr 17, 2013)

jigar2speed said:


> heh, why don't you say it upfront that you already tasted the beast.



nobody touches my precious cards! not even tpu staff


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## RCoon (Apr 17, 2013)

W1zzard said:


> nobody touches my precious cards! not even tpu staff



Plan on selling your engineering model? xD
It's not like you dont have enough cards


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## jigar2speed (Apr 17, 2013)

adulaamin said:


> yeah I'm brainwashing readers to believe AMD drivers are less than spectacular when it comes to crossfire. I guess it's not working since it's only pissing some people off.



Exactly, cause i understand the news are true, but a lot of people have been very repetitive along with Techreport.com that my braincells are now automatically reacting *"enough already".*


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## arbiter (Apr 17, 2013)

Well from what i seen of CF setups frame latency is least of the problem for this card.


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## adulaamin (Apr 17, 2013)

arbiter said:


> Well from what i seen of CF setups frame latency is least of the problem for this card.





jigar2speed said:


> *"enough already".*


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## tacosRcool (Apr 17, 2013)

Some dude on Ebay is selling an engineering sample so you could maybe get a 7990 before the 24th of April release date


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## blibba (Apr 17, 2013)

jigar2speed said:


> Exactly, cause i understand the news are true, but a lot of people have been very repetitive along with Techreport.com that my braincells are now automatically reacting *"enough already".*



You've noticed TechReport recommend AMD's cards in their recommended builds, I take it? And that the guy you're accusing of brainwashing is using a 7970?


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## jigar2speed (Apr 17, 2013)

blibba said:


> You've noticed TechReport recommend AMD's cards in their recommended builds, I take it? And that the guy you're accusing of brainwashing is using a 7970?



Did i say the news were false ? No!!!,but repeat telecast on each and every thread ? And spinning every single AMD product's news into AMD driver suck news , honestly, i am getting sick of this, trust me a lot of regulars are as well.


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## blibba (Apr 17, 2013)

jigar2speed said:


> Did i say the news were false ? No!!!,but repeat telecast on each and every thread ? And spinning every single AMD product's news into AMD driver suck news , honestly, i am getting sick and trust a lot of regulars are as well.



There'll always be fanboy flaming, and it's far from limited to AMD products, but I think concerns over AMD's driver issues atm are very legitimate and rarely more relevant than for this news post. If you're sick of them, I sympathise to some extent, but you'll just have to avoid the comments sections where they're bound to appear. If you don't disagree with the posts, then I don't think you're going to achieve the censorship you desire by raging against them.

As for your deleted comment saying that I forgot to check that you use a 7970, nobody's accusing you of having an anti-AMD agenda.


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## EarthDog (Apr 17, 2013)

I'm with jigar... tired of hearing it... specifically the BLANKET statements that it 'doesnt work'. It works fine for me, as in, I dont notice anything and have used CFx from 7850's on up the chain. Is the issue real? YES. Does it effect everyone at all times? HELL NO. 

I really believe some of these stemmed from cadaveca's initial propoganda post on it. His wording was WAY to strong for what the problem was. ANd since people respect his opinion (and rightfully so) the lemmings here took off and ran with it and now its spreading like wild fire. Personally, I find guru3d's take on it a lot more accurate.

but I digress. As much as I hate hearing it, Im more than certain those that are experiencing problems are tired of hearing this side!


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## blibba (Apr 17, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> I'm with jigar... tired of hearing it... specifically the BLANKET statements that it 'doesnt work'. It works fine for me, as in, I dont notice anything and have used CFx from 7850's on up the chain. Is the issue real? YES. Does it effect everyone at all times? HELL NO.



Agreed so far.



EarthDog said:


> I really believe some of these stemmed from cadaveca's initial propoganda post on it. His wording was WAY to strong for what the problem was. ANd since people respect his opinion (and rightfully so) the lemmings here took off and ran with it and now its spreading like wild fire.



Ok, so first off, Cadaveca's post wasn't propaganda. That would imply that he has an agenda.

I think he was right to make a big deal of it though, because while, yes, AMD graphics cards are still compelling solutions, it is a big deal. This is in a context where people will normally cream themselves over a 5% difference in FPS, so an issue like this is a big deal, and it will put people off AMD cards, and they will say so.

Of course, as you say, blanket generalisations are inane and unhelpful, but there are trolls in every big news thread. That's just a fact of life on forums like this one, and it is by no means limited to threads about AMD graphics cards. Keep a tighter hold on your jimmies.


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## EarthDog (Apr 17, 2013)

We will agree to disagree. I think he (and others) made A LOT more out of it than it really is. I do believe he has an agenda as he wants the problems he sees fixed, LOL! But yeah, his thread was propaganda to me with his wording.

I mean seriously, you agree with this: 





> Shows real well how *Crossfire is useless right now*, FPS be damned, nearly any review showing FPS in Crossfire shows useless numbers, potentially faked, and it's not any reviewer's fault....*technically, AMD has been cheating*.
> 
> 
> *Yeah, all of you that spent money on a second card for Crossfire, did it for nothing...really nothing...*for now.



Blanket statements FTL.


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## blibba (Apr 17, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> I think he (and others) made A LOT more out of it than it really is.



I've seen tech journalists make a lot more out of a lot less.



EarthDog said:


> I do believe he has an agenda as he wants the problems he sees fixed, LOL! But yeah, his thread was propaganda to me with his wording.



Obviously all but the most irrational Nvidia fanboys would like to see the problem fixed. I'm not in the market for a modern card right now, but hell I'd like to see it fixed. Progress is always good. But you seem to be suggesting that he's unfair towards AMD, which I don't think is true. But yeah, I'm happy to agree to disagree, and it makes a nice change to have a mature and coherent debate with someone on the internet


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## EarthDog (Apr 17, 2013)

Oh true that!

I'm not suggesting, nor did I allude to that point that he is unfair towards AMD. All I am saying is that his statement was unnecessarily strong and misleading IMO (as in its NOT useless, AMD WASNT cheating - though he nor I can prove otherwise. AMD said they didnt test for it like that. Now that they can/do, they are fixing it. And last, the Second card for crossfire does NOTHING). NONE of that is true! Plenty are just fine with using CFx, and scaling is solid, IMO outside of a few titles (which both parties have issues with scaling in some titles). 

I have a TON of respect for Dave and the knowledge he brings to the table, him and I have discussed this already in another thread too. I just feel the tone and words used were not helpful in bringing the reality of the situation to the people here.


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## blibba (Apr 17, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> Second card for crossfire does NOTHING



It certainly isn't true that a second card does nothing. I can understand people's strong reaction when they see things like this, though.

















They're not universal issues, but they are alarming for such expensive and popular hardware. (Please don't take me as suggesting that SLI is issue-free, btw - the 690 doesn't exactly flatter itself in these same graphs.)


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## Eagleye (Apr 17, 2013)

adulaamin said:


> yeah I'm brainwashing readers to believe AMD drivers are less than spectacular when it comes to crossfire. I guess it's not working since it's only pissing some people off.



Should we also stop recommending ALL single nvidia cards bcoz *AMD is Superior in single cards *over Nvidia?

Edit: The Xfire and Sli is game dependent anyway. Some games are better on Xfire and some on Sli


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## blibba (Apr 17, 2013)

Eagleye said:


> Should we also stop recommending ALL single nvidia cards bcoz *AMD is Superior in single cards *over Nvidia?



Well, if you pop over into Nvidia news threads you'll find that there are plenty of people already doing that, and it's similarly poorly justified. Such is the internet.


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## EarthDog (Apr 17, 2013)

I hear ya blibba... and it is a REAL issue. Just not everyone is affected. Some games dont show those severe frame time problems. Yes, they are AAA titles and the problem should be fixed, no doubt. The kicker is this... can you SEE the problem even though its there? It depends on the title really.


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## blibba (Apr 17, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> The kicker is this... can you SEE the problem even though its there? It depends on the title really.



And on the person!

Personally, as someone who plays very few AAA titles, these issues in the presumably best-tested games really put me off multi-GPU altogether.


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## EarthDog (Apr 17, 2013)

And I dont blame you for being concerned. What I take exception to was the tone/wording of the thread here and several articles on it just blowing it out of proportion.



> This is my message to you guys, frametime measurements have been taken out of proportion. What you see in these charts sometimes looks alarming with massive spike, whilst your average end-user will never ever even see it on screen.


http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_gtx_650_ti_boost_review,8.html



Oh well.


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## the54thvoid (Apr 17, 2013)

I really hope AMD nail this card and have release drivers to match it. That would spur Nvidia to more action - they have in the past reacted to AMD driver leaps with improvements of their own.

I'd be hard pressed though to go back to dual gpu for gaming.  Even with latency issues being addressed some titles don't work in crossfire and that can be done at developer level.  Maybe with AMD's control over gpu's in next gen consoles though this will be the start of a software revolution for them.  They have the hardware and if the power optimisations pay off then they'll have done an awesome job.

But just to add, i stopped using 7970 crossfire because of the things being 'debated' above.  As pretty as this card might be, it needs to match Nvidia in smoothness - not beat it in fps.


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## Mathragh (Apr 17, 2013)

Perhaps AMD's focus with crossfire this time around hasn't been on improving the frame times for each game individually, but rather on the mechanic. They could've implemented something Nvidia is also using; namely frame buffering. This would would probably be a lot more easy to implement, hence the fairly quick release, and work for all games/apps currently suffering from spiky frametimes.

Just a thought!


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## adulaamin (Apr 17, 2013)

Eagleye said:


> *AMD is Superior in single cards *



I'd bet the few people who own a Titan would say otherwise. 



Eagleye said:


> Should we also stop recommending ALL single nvidia cards?



We all have different ideas on what we think IS better. Price/performance, performance/watt, pure performance, games bundled. Recommend what you honestly think is better.  If I have a friend who has deep pockets and doesn't care about price, I'd recommend he get a Titan and be done with it. If I had the money I would too.


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## cadaveca (Apr 17, 2013)

Mathragh said:


> They could've implemented something Nvidia is also using; namely frame buffering. This would would probably be a lot more easy to implement, hence the fairly quick release, and work for all games/apps currently suffering from spiky frametimes.



Maybe patents prevent this. That would make a ton of sense, actually. If NVidia patented the tech they used(and it is very likely they did), AMD would have to develop a whole new method of doing their frame-time balancing, and that would easily, in my books, explain why it has taken so long for them to produce proper Crossfire support.


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## Xzibit (Apr 17, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Maybe patents prevent this. That would make a ton of sense, actually. If NVidia patented the tech they used(and it is very likely they did), AMD would have to develop a whole new method of doing their frame-time balancing, and that would easily, in my books, explain why it has taken so long for them to produce proper Crossfire support.



That be odd since the data coming out of the Game Engine never lines properly between the two vendors then you introduce mischief from both hardware and software implementations to rectify an issue in the pipeline that might not even be your problem to begin with.

Both should stick to synchronozing additional cards more efficiently but imposing solutions to mask inherent problem from the PC gaming pipeline id say no.  If anything the FCAT test  says that method is proving wrong in scalability with Higher resolutions.


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## cadaveca (Apr 17, 2013)

Xzibit said:


> That be odd since the data coming out of the Game Engine never lines properly between the two vendors then you introduce mischief from both hardware and software implementations to rectify an issue in the pipeline that might not even be your problem to begin with.



Blah, blah, blah. You haven't read much of the info that has come out recently on the subject, have you? There is no such situation. Game devs do not make drivers. It's all the hardware's fault. Really. DirectX is "supposed" to offer an open rendering environment that makes this not an issue. That's why they got rid of "Cap Bits". Oh, what's that you say? CUDA? Nah, it doesn't limit that in any way, at all. Why did you ask?



Either way, there must have been a specific reason that AMD has these issues, and NVidia does not. I don't accept the answer they have given of "we are too stupid to look at that". I've been bitching to them directly about their issues for years. They made a choice to ignore it, and all issues now are 1000% the fault of hardware vendors. There is no denying that. The past 10 years have proven it.

But, I guess AMD now seems to think that the "7990" is a viable enough option to want to release this card. I'm very interested myself, but I remember the 5970 launch, and 5870 Crossfire not getting proper Eyefinity Crossfire drivers like the 5970 had, for months. Not surprisingly, back then AMD have cursor corruption issues, and they do now too. AMD has already said July for that, and that's about the same time frame with the 5870 Crossfire Issues.



I really care about products like this, because I'm an Eyefinity user, and if this card will fix the issues I have, I'll sell my current cards and get one.


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## Casecutter (Apr 17, 2013)

adulaamin said:


> I hope they have working crossfire drivers by then. If not, there will be a lot of complaints.





jigar2speed said:


> spinning every single AMD product's news into AMD driver suck news, honestly, i am getting sick of this, trust me a lot of regulars are as well.



I think adulaamin provided a pertinent statement in the case of this dual chip product because it essentially needs Crossfire working well to be outstanding.   If you’ve follow recent reviews C/F on GCN architecture hasn’t been a super strong suite for AMD lately, and Latency has been brought recently.  I’m still  not sure such frap measurements early in the pipeline are a true indicator of the actual smoothness you eyeball on the screen.  Hopefully we’ll see very soon.


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## Xzibit (Apr 17, 2013)

I guess what I was saying wasnt simple enough.

I was saying that if Nvidia introduced a hardware solution like you were impling. The FCAT test at PCPer have proven that scaling above 1080p is horrid.  So I wouldnt call that a solution.

AMD could provide a similar solution but then you'd have both AMD and Nvidia multi-GPU configurations being equally as aweful beyond 1080p.
I'm pretty sure thats a niche of a niche that buy the higher end GPUs and go Multi-GPU just to stick to 1080p

AMD would be wise and look at how badly Nvidia is scaling in that departement when the implications are they are doing it *"Properly"* so to speak.
They should take note aswell as Nvidia themselves and improve rather then to match a less then preferable performance outcome for those using Multi-GPU solutions or thinking about going multi-gpu in the future.


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## Mathragh (Apr 17, 2013)

Casecutter said:


> I think adulaamin provided a pertinent statement in the case of this dual chip product because it essentially needs Crossfire working well to be outstanding.   If you’ve follow recent reviews C/F on GCN architecture hasn’t been a super strong suite for AMD lately, and Latency has been brought recently.  I’m still  not sure such frap measurements early in the pipeline are a true indicator of the actual smoothness you eyeball on the screen.  Hopefully we’ll see very soon.



The discrepancy between fraps measurements and the frame delivery to the screen itself was indeed there, shown by both anandtech, and techreport. They also showed that nvidia used some "secret sauce"(read frame buffering) that caused frames that were delivered unevenly by the game engine to be smoothed out by the driver/hardware layer in order to deliver smooth frames on screen. This isn't THE solution to the problem, as this will cause other things, like input lag to increase, because frames will sit in the buffer for a longer time, and it will probably not decrease all of the juddery movements on screen, but atleast the frame delivery will be a bit smoother.

Some kind of buffering would be in my opinion the most easy kind of "cheap fix" they could do that would improve things, especially for crossfire. However, as cadaveca also said, they might have to find a solution that is not exactly the same as Nvidias' , as a result of patent issues that would otherwise arise(i dont have a lot of knowledge about patents myself, so i wont argue about that)

In any case, I do believe that they atleast made some progress with drivers for this card, because of a lot of reasons, some stated in a previous post of mine .


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## cadaveca (Apr 17, 2013)

Xzibit said:


> I guess what I was saying wasnt simple enough.
> 
> I was saying that if Nvidia introduced a hardware solution like you were impling. The FCAT test at PCPer have proven that scaling above 1080p is horrid.  So I wouldnt call that a solution.
> 
> ...



Blah blah blah...

A quick Patent search will bring up any number of patents that support what I've posted. That's all. The rest is just conjecture.  I really don't care about what NVidia is doing, nor is it on topic.


I just want properly working Crossfire and Eyefinity. Taking pictures right now of my cards to list so I can buy a 7990. Need a 7950?


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## ZenZimZaliben (Apr 17, 2013)

Oh the Bitcoins I will mine with 4 of these!


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## arbiter (Apr 18, 2013)

I wouldn't say its AMD cheating more as eveyone relying on frap's fps numbers with out looking at the video output. Frap's pulled fps numbers before it gets to gpu so if a frame is slow to render or gets dropped for what ever reason both cards get it counted for it. Nvidia has hardware in their cards prevents it. Which card is faster? its pretty much a dead heat when its 1 card vs 1 card, not in SLI/CF or dual gpu card. Its pretty much up in the air.


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## EarthDog (Apr 18, 2013)

Here is the thing. If you test with FCAT, a lot of the frame times and spikes you see, you wont notice as a user. Its when the spikes hit above 50ms or so that a user can notice. FRAPS can catch this...


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## Slizzo (Apr 18, 2013)

Soft launch?


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## EarthDog (Apr 18, 2013)

Slizzo said:


> Soft launch?


Is the NDA up yet................? Awful hard to judge availability when the NDA isnt up...


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## arbiter (Apr 19, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> Here is the thing. If you test with FCAT, a lot of the frame times and spikes you see, you wont notice as a user. Its when the spikes hit above 50ms or so that a user can notice. FRAPS can catch this...



you will notice it as low as 30ms, 33ms frame is only 30fps time's you might not notice it if its say once every 10+ sec but if it happens say every other second you will notice a slight bit of a stud-er.


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## EarthDog (Apr 19, 2013)

That isnt what other articles say...

Articles seem to vary.. LOL!


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## march10k (Apr 19, 2013)

Meh...a minor, but important reason that I shelled out for a 7970 when it was brand new is future-proofing.  I'm skipping this generation...and the next three!


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Apr 19, 2013)

march10k said:


> Meh...a minor, but important reason that I shelled out for a 7970 when it was brand new is future-proofing.  I'm skipping this generation...and the next three!



Three might be optimistic dude,   I am supposed to be waiting on the next generation but these damn game promos and also the 2-3gb memory upgrade(over my 1gb gfx's) have me twitching.

Ahh I hear the urge to upgrade screaming at me now.........no.. can't. .


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## Slizzo (Apr 19, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> Is the NDA up yet................? Awful hard to judge availability when the NDA isnt up...



Yeah, just wondering if AMD will actually have hardware on hand when the release date comes. It's been so long since they've demoed a potential product (didn't they demo something last year?) and then release it. 

Regardless, release of this should hopefully bring pricing on the GTX690 down in line.


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## Xzibit (Apr 19, 2013)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Oh the Bitcoins I will mine with 4 of these!



I bet you will salivate on those

*ExtremeTech* - _AMD destroys Nvidia at Bitcoin mining, can the gap ever be bridged?_


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## Super XP (Apr 20, 2013)

The card looks sick, but that cooler is WOW  HUGE.


theoneandonlymrk said:


> Three might be optimistic dude,   I am supposed to be waiting on the next generation but these damn game promos and also the 2-3gb memory upgrade(over my 1gb gfx's) have me twitching.
> 
> Ahh I hear the urge to upgrade screaming at me now.........no.. can't. .


Me too, I've already decided to skip the HD 7000 generation in favour for the next.


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## Ravenas (Apr 20, 2013)

Apparently benchmarks have been leaked here:

http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-hd-7990-malta-performance-benchmarks-leaked-crushes-geforce-gtx-690/


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## Rahmat Sofyan (Apr 20, 2013)

Added the top...














I hope the price around $700 not around $1000, except AMD had talked to nVidia about the price


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## Ravenas (Apr 20, 2013)

I'm thinking $899 will be the price.


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## Xzibit (Apr 20, 2013)

Even if its at same price point.  Its a much better buy then the other two.

It will just come down to personel preference.


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## Rahmat Sofyan (Apr 20, 2013)

Ravenas said:


> I'm thinking $899 will be the price.



Yup, so maybe the price range 800-900 more suitable...

still wait about how much this card will eat the power, if keep low and stay behind 2 x 7970 maybe for $800 this best bunch for money.


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## march10k (Apr 21, 2013)

This:






Nice...but even my XFX black 7970 is more than plenty for my single 23" monitor....and will be...for a while.  Maybe when I get home from Tokyo next year, I'll get a 32" screen...and another 7970...they should be nice and cheap by then ($300?)...this 7990 is...impressive, but excessive, at least for my needs.


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## EarthDog (Apr 21, 2013)

32" monitors are still 1080/1200 res... Its the 27-30" that 2560x1440/1600. Inches don't matter, its the resolution.


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## march10k (Apr 21, 2013)

ah, you know what I mean...the 2560x resolution monitors...that would prolly justify a second 7970.


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## EarthDog (Apr 21, 2013)

Perhaps. I ran bf3 cranked with one....(25x1440).


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## march10k (Apr 21, 2013)

.....and BF4?  It'll be out by then...anyway, off to run BF3 cranked on my 1920x1080 75hz 23" monitor


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## BababooeyHTJ (Apr 21, 2013)

adulaamin said:


> I hope they have working crossfire drivers by then. If not, there will be a lot of complaints.



Wizzard won't use them though. He likes to use outdated WHQL drivers in his reviews. You know since no one that uses a bleeding edge $1000 video card would ever try something labeled a beta.


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## adulaamin (Apr 21, 2013)

BababooeyHTJ said:


> Wizzard won't use them though. He likes to use outdated WHQL drivers in his reviews. You know since no one that uses a bleeding edge $1000 video card would ever try something labeled a beta.



I think that IF AMD releases a driver for this card, Wizzard will use that driver for his review. And if that happens, I'm guessing we won't be seeing a lot of cards on the review, maybe 670/680/690/Titan/7950/7970/7990. Well no one knows what the great Wizz will do. Maybe only him and some other staff members here at TPU. Let's just wait and hope that this card performs much more than we expect so we can see some price wars.


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## BababooeyHTJ (Apr 21, 2013)

Hes been using outdated drivers in all of his crossfire comparisons for months. Why stop now?


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## adulaamin (Apr 21, 2013)

BababooeyHTJ said:


> Hes been using outdated drivers in all of his crossfire comparisons for months. Why stop now?



Let's just wait for his review. It's no use speculating what wiz will or will not do. 

On topic, I hope that April 24 launch date is true.


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## arbiter (Apr 21, 2013)

march10k said:


> ah, you know what I mean...the 2560x resolution monitors...that would prolly justify a second 7970.



Til AMD fix's issues with their cards which could be a while goin CF seems like a waste of $.



BababooeyHTJ said:


> Wizzard won't use them though. He likes to use outdated WHQL drivers in his reviews. You know since no one that uses a bleeding edge $1000 video card would ever try something labeled a beta.



How many end users even are on lastest WHQL drivers or even last version? Not everyone updates drivers upon new rls. When it works fine, a good % tend to just not mess with it. Also when people complain about a reviewer using old drivers for reviews and benchmarking. When they start a massive comparison they keep to same driver version else it could contaminate test results.



march10k said:


> This:
> 
> http://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Radeon-HD-7990-Battlefield-4.png
> 
> Nice...but even my XFX black 7970 is more than plenty for my single 23" monitor....and will be...for a while.  Maybe when I get home from Tokyo next year, I'll get a 32" screen...and another 7970...they should be nice and cheap by then ($300?)...this 7990 is...impressive, but excessive, at least for my needs.



Truthfully with all the news surrounding AMD and runt frame issue, i wouldn't take those FPS numbers at face value on the 7990. Going by the trends AMD real fps number is ~50-55% or around what a single 7970 card can do. As for the 3DMark stuff, those are synthetic benchmarks and have very little impact on real world usage.


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## Xzibit (Apr 21, 2013)

arbiter said:


> Til both *AMD & Nvidia *fix's *synchronizing* issues with their *Multi-cards* which could be a while goin *multi-gpu *seems like a waste of $.


Fixed.



arbiter said:


> How many end users even are on lastest WHQL drivers or even last version? Not everyone updates drivers upon new rls. When it works fine, a good % tend to just not mess with it. Also when people complain about a reviewer using old drivers for reviews and benchmarking. When they start a massive comparison they keep to same driver version else it could contaminate test results.



I think he was pointing out the obvious.  New cards get released with new drivers and that driver isnt used on the rest of the line-up.

The driver is there and available but is only used for 1 product not line-up. So if you speak of contaminating test results its already apparent and the reason why W1zzard includes this in every review.

_



*Benchmark scores in other reviews are only comparable when this exact same configuration is used.*

Click to expand...

_


arbiter said:


> Truthfully with all the news surrounding AMD and runt frame issue, i wouldn't take those FPS numbers at face value on the 7990. Going by the trends AMD real fps number is ~50-55% or around what a single 7970 card can do. As for the 3DMark stuff, those are synthetic benchmarks and have very little impact on *real world usage*.



Yet, PcPer include *Observed FPS*.  He needed to measure something that wasnt appearent to everyone.

Just look at his latest podcast on it and even his own team couldnt really tell real-time variances.

A better way to measure would be tolerable variance. It be a dynamic measure but would be more reflective of what a user would actually experince.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Apr 21, 2013)

W1zzard said:


> nobody touches my precious cards! not even tpu staff


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## MxPhenom 216 (Apr 21, 2013)

Ravenas said:


> I'm thinking $899 will be the price.



god lets hope so, get Nvidia to drop pricing on the 690 and Titan!



cadaveca said:


> Blah blah blah...
> 
> A quick Patent search will bring up any number of patents that support what I've posted. That's all. The rest is just conjecture.  I really don't care about what NVidia is doing, nor is it on topic.
> 
> ...



No Titan or 690 for you Dave?


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## cadaveca (Apr 21, 2013)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> No Titan or 690 for you Dave?



If there isn't a driver to fix my issues, yes, NVidia would be what I go for, but I'd rather not, honestly. I dunno why I have so much patience with AMD and drivers...but I do have 3 7950's, and a 7970, and will lose a significant amount of money selling them. I'm actually considering suing AMD for failing to deliver what's advertised on the box. I think I have enough proof that Crossfire has NEVER worked, and that AMD has been pulling the wool over everyone's eyes about Crossfire for years.



The only thing that has kept this whole thing "hidden" before is that the performance offered by a single card was too small for this issues to be truly noticed by as many users as it does now. As you know, everyone we talk to on TS and other places all says that they have the same stuff on Crossfire now, except maybe one or two users, and that before a couple of months ago, those numbers were exactly opposite. I really believe that most users don't understand this problem fully, since I still see some users on other forums saying that there is no problem, and V-sync fixes it, when, on my systems, clearly it doesn't.


I managed to customize a driver and lessen the stutter, and I've posted screenshots of the results here on TPU some time ago, so I know that a fix is possible, but from what I see, performance is going to suffer by about 30%. That would make AMD lose the performance crown, so I am a bit loathe to just blindly move over multiple NVidia cards, and potentially have other issue. At least I know and understand the problems now, and can deal with it. I took my pictures, and I'm ready to sell my cards. I will give AMD one single driver release after 7990 launch, then I will attempt to return my cards to the retailer, since they don't work as advertised. IF the retailer doesn't cooperate, I'll be seeing AMD in court, and AMD will be buying me new cards, and anyone else who bought multiple AMD VGAs. I have already spoken to a class-action lawyer who is very keen on pursuing this one, but we need a true monetary loss, and no ability to rectify the problem. AMD hasn't given a public statement about this, so I have made arrangements to get one of these FACT systems to use in court to prove the problem, which was actually easier that I thought it was. Who would have thought other companies would like to see the demise of AMD?


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## EarthDog (Apr 21, 2013)

Lol, good luck with sueing amd Dave. This thing is juuuuuuust about to come full circle and those that made a big deal of it are going to be left standing with their pud in their hand. Going all litigious on them isn't the smartest thing I have heard anyone say.


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## cadaveca (Apr 21, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> Lol, good luck with sueing amd Dave. This thing is juuuuuuust about to come full circle and those that made a big deal of it are going to be left standing with their pud in their hand. Going all litigious on them isn't the smartest thing I have heard anyone say.



I'm in Canada, not the US, and consumer protection laws are different here. IF a feature advertised on the box doesn't work as advertized, the company has commited fraud, period. They can have a disclaimer on the box to cover them, but such is not the case with the cards I bought. We can't sue for anything here in Canada...there has to be a clear law broken, and consumers have very exact rights on situations like this. There also has to be a real loss, and my lawyer seems to think he can show that. You may thin kit's not smart, but I like to fight for what I believe in.


I've had AMD call me at home over issues with product packaging like this before. It's not really as big of a deal as you make it out to be, and it forces AMD to handle the problem appropriately. AMD is taking this issue rather seriously, from my communications with them as an end user. I had boxes changed over UVD2 claims on the box, in the past.


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## Xzibit (Apr 21, 2013)

If that was the case people be sueing left and right worldwide at every driver change.

Just look at these gems over at Nvidia forums...



> Titan seems to have numerous issues with these new drivers. Im having stuttering issues too with my Titan





> I'm getting stuttering with my 2 Titans too in BF3. It's a massive pain.





> I just hope the do something to SWTOR SLI performance in next driver, currently it's just broken. Stuttering, micro stuttering and bad performance. Much better in single GPU mode.





> I'm running SLI ASUS GTX Titans, I have a 3D Surround setup. I'm running the above driver and it was an update from 314.09. I'm having numerous issues



And thats just 1 page out of 38 in the latest drivers
Havent seen a class action suit filed yet.


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## Frick (Apr 21, 2013)

@dave: exactly what are they promising on the boxes that does not work?


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## cadaveca (Apr 21, 2013)

Xzibit said:


> If that was the case people be sueing left and right worldwide at every driver change.
> 
> Just look at these gems over at Nvidia forums...
> 
> ...



I'm not in the US, and I'd not go for class action. But lawyers that deal with such know consumer protection laws the best.

Taking AMD to court wouldn't be for the purpose of winning, either. I've wasted cash on these cards for Crossfire and Eyefinity, so AMD can waste some cash on lawyers dealing with my complaint.

Chances are though, my retailer will swap the cards out and it won't be any issue.



WHere AMD has failed is that they said a fix would be out in March, and then didn't deliver. Then they said July. At that point in time, AMD will have had these cards on the market for over 18 months.


Frick said:


> @dave: exactly what are they promising on the boxes that does not work?



Depends on the brand. Crossfire for some, Eyefinity for others, voltage control for others yet. Many cards advertise volt control, new cards were put in older boxes that advertised it, and the new version doesn't support it. AMD doesn't make sure their partners use the same sort of technology branding on their boxes, and they should.


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## Xzibit (Apr 21, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> I'm not in the US, and I'd not go for class action. But lawyers that deal with such know consumer protection laws the best.
> 
> Taking AMD to court wouldn't be for the purpose of winning, either. I've wasted cash on these cards for Crossfire and Eyefinity, so AMD can waste some cash on lawyers dealing with my complaint.
> 
> ...



You do realize that Nvidia did the same thing last year.  They announced a driver to minimize Microstutter-throttling in June.  A month later there forum went offline and 5-6moths later it came back online. There were a handful of months that a driver never was released to address that issue and when it was it just slightly minimized it. Microstuttering and throttling are still being reported throught there line-up today after several driver releases.

Havent heard anyone suing them for the similar situiation that spanned more then just Multi-GPU setups.


You have a better chance of solving your personal greivance in small claims court against the seller *if any*.
I dont know what the equivelant of that is in Canada.


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## cadaveca (Apr 21, 2013)

Xzibit said:


> You do realize that Nvidia did the same thing last year.  They announced a driver to minimize Microstutter-throttling in June.  A month later there forum went offline and 5-6moths later it came back online. There were a handful of months that a driver never was released to address that issue and when it was it just slightly minimized it. Microstuttering and throttling are still being reported throught there line-up today after several driver releases.
> 
> You have a better chance of solving your personal greivance in small claims court against the seller if any.
> I dont know what the equivelant of that is in Canada.



Yes, I do know Nvidia has had similar issue, but since I don't use their products, I don't care what they do.


And yes, it would be the equivalent of small claims. Our legal system doesn't work as easily as yours does.  I'd have no hope of getting anything other than my money back. That said, I'll probably get that from my retailer anyway. Updated drivers need to not come out, and my retailer would have to refuse refund before I could even get a day in court. I like how you guys with no idea about my legal system are pretty convinced I'll not have much luck.... I've already won against OEMs for similar things. Consumer protection laws up here are pretty good...you just need to know how to use them.


Yet, I have faith AMD will fix things shortly anyway. Except I run three cards in Crossfire, and triple card has WAY MORE issues than dual card. I don't expect Trifire or quadfire fixed(although I have the hardware to run that config), but I do expect dual-GPU will be fixed, with this 7990 coming from AMD.


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## arbiter (Apr 21, 2013)

Xzibit said:


> Fixed.



you shouldn't fix someones reply with FALSE information. Nvidia doesn't have the sync issue like AMD does. Nvidia years ago put a chip in their cards that solves the problem. Try to read up on the problem before you talk.


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## Xzibit (Apr 21, 2013)

arbiter said:


> you shouldn't fix someones reply with FALSE information. Nvidia doesn't have the sync issue like AMD does. Nvidia years ago put a chip in their cards that solves the problem. Try to read up on the problem before you talk.



Ooops, My bad 

*TPU* - _NVIDIA Responds to Reports of Kepler V-Sync Stuttering Issue _


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## cadaveca (Apr 21, 2013)

Xzibit said:


> Ooops, My bad
> 
> *TPU* - _NVIDIA Responds to Reports of Kepler V-Sync Stuttering Issue _



The big difference, for me, is the public statement NVidia gave about the issue. AMD does no such thing, at least, not that I have found.


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## Xzibit (Apr 21, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> The big difference, for me, is the public statement NVidia gave about the issue. AMD does no such thing, at least, not that I have found.



I really dont see a big difference.

Toms Hardware had to reach out to Nvidia and thats due to flood of user reports single and multi setups.  As you can see even today on there latest drivers by visiting there forums some of the problems still persist almost a year later.

Anandtech did a write up interview with AMD.  PCPer has gotten statements from AMD and always mention it on there reviews and podcast.

On a fun note you can take that post thread and switch Nvidias name with AMD.  You can also tell the usual suspects aswell.  I was upset since I was about to make my next GPU purchase at the time.  

I would expect similar results and time-table from AMD 

Getting back on Topic.

*AMD Radeon HD 7990 Fan noise test *


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## cadaveca (Apr 21, 2013)

Xzibit said:


> *AMD Radeon HD 7990 Fan noise test *



Interesting, thanks. Those are some pretty large coolers under that shroud.


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## Fluffmeister (Apr 22, 2013)

It will be interesting to see if they have got the power consumption in check too and how it compares to the year old GTX 690.


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## BababooeyHTJ (Apr 26, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> The big difference, for me, is the public statement NVidia gave about the issue. AMD does no such thing, at least, not that I have found.



First of all, it  took months. I suffered from that from day one with my 680. 

I ran into countless other performance issues that many others saw as well. Nvidia has had their issues too. Like the TDR issues from not that long ago. Hardware plays differently on different hardware. Who knows how your cards would play on a different system. These things happen, sadly.

If you want to see why AMD got away with microstutter all those years look no further than review sites like this that never comment on how a game actually plays. The big three, TPU, Anand, and Guru3d are probably the worst offenders. 

If it weren't for techreport trying something new I'm still not sure that this would have come to light or that Nvidia would have done their best to really clear up microstutter with Kepler. It was there with Fermi too.

I don't know about eyefinity but with a single high res display tri-fire worked great for me especially with a framerate cap in the games where I did see microstutter. Sadly I didn't find a cap to be a viable workaround on a 120hz display.


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## cadaveca (Apr 26, 2013)

BababooeyHTJ said:


> I ran into countless other performance issues that many others saw as well. Nvidia has had their issues too. Like the TDR issues from not that long ago. Hardware plays differently on different hardware. Who knows how your cards would play on a different system. These things happen, sadly.



Unfortunately, as a motherboard reviewer, and having used my current cards nearly exclusively in my review systems, I'm pretty sure that I've eliminated any issues that were NOT hardware-related. I covered like 35 boards in the last year, and those 7950's went into each one. 


Anyway, it is not THAT important, and I have drivers that are better than previous. I alsop modded the driver myself, and AMD's "fix" seems to be just like mine. It is funny because I told quite a few of the regulars on our TS about how it worked(I also posted screenshots on here), and then many days later sites that were given the driver by AMD reported the exact same thing.


SO perhaps I understand this issue a bit more than most.

my issue with AMD giving statements is that they kind of did, and said there would be a preliminary fix in March, and when that didn't happen, they didn't say a thing. Now we have more drivers, and more info. Really, I think that AMD can turn this issue around and make it a great victory.


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## arbiter (Apr 26, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> WHere AMD has failed is that they said a fix would be out in March, and then didn't deliver. Then they said July. At that point in time, AMD will have had these cards on the market for over 18 months.



Um not sure where you heard June, but PcPer was told AMD would have a driver fix for it in June. Ryan Shrout recently within last week or so got a prototype driver from AMD and results were much better. Sadly though it only works on 1 monitor atm.


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## cadaveca (Apr 26, 2013)

arbiter said:


> Um not sure where you heard June, but PcPer was told AMD would have a driver fix for it in June. Ryan Shrout recently within last week or so got a prototype driver from AMD and results were much better. Sadly though it only works on 1 monitor atm.



AMD told PCPerspectives around July. They didn't give a date, they mentioned a number of weeks(12-16 weeks, actually, which takes us to July). And yes, I have this new driver as well. It does make some pretty good improvements, which is why I am not so "involved" in the issue right now. Amd did what I wanted, and made a public statement about where they were in dealing with the issue. It's just unfortunate that AMD told Anandtech back in December that this first driver would be out in March. So they are many weeks late at this point. I am taking the July idea seriously, but honestly, I do not expect AMD to be able to release a WHQL version by then. 


I use three cards, and Eyefinity. I have a more complex build, and need to wait longer for a proper driver than most.


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## BababooeyHTJ (Apr 26, 2013)

Like I said I don't use eyefinity. It seems like the biggest complainers often use eyefinty. 

I remember you complaining about crossfire scaling. I used tri-fire 7950 for around six months and found scaling on a single display great. 

If I were you I would have given Nvidia cards a shot a long time ago instead of complaining for months. I've flip flopped between the two brands a couple of times this gen.


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## cadaveca (Apr 26, 2013)

BababooeyHTJ said:


> If I were you I would have given Nvidia cards a shot a long time ago instead of complaining for months. I've flip flopped between the two brands a couple of times this gen.



I shouldn't have to swap anything. AMD advertises both CrossfireX and Eyefinity as working, so I do think it's pretty reasonable for me to expect it to work as advertised.

It doesn't.


What's is more stupid is that I keep buying games to play using Eyefinity, only to have issues, and I end up shelving the game waiting for a working driver. It's an evil little cycle where I buy a new game on launch, install all my VGAs and monitors, try it out, find it fails, remove the monitors, the GPUs, and the game. Pretty frustrating.


Then there's this "magical" driver that "fixes" things, but AMD won't release to the public. Great, so you tell us you can fix it, but we can't try it. Great job, AMD. :shadedshu Pretty reasonable for your users to have to write their own driver because you cannot.


Maybe some board maker will be nice and mail me some NVidia cards.


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## Fluffmeister (Apr 27, 2013)

Xzibit said:


> Even if its at same price point.  *Its a much better buy then the other two.*
> 
> It will just come down to personel preference.



Hahahaha! No, it isn't.

But yes, I guess it does come down to personal preference... you at least got one thing right.


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## BababooeyHTJ (Apr 27, 2013)

Doesn't work for you maybe.

Again, if you are so confident that Nvidia cards work better buy a pair instead of complaining.



cadaveca said:


> Then there's this "magical" driver that "fixes" things, but AMD won't release to the public. Great, so you tell us you can fix it, but we can't try it. Great job, AMD. :shadedshu Pretty reasonable for your users to have to write their own driver because you cannot.




That has nothing to do with anything that you've been complaining about.


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## cadaveca (Apr 27, 2013)

BababooeyHTJ said:


> That has nothing to do with anything that you've been complaining about.



It sure does, since I have this driver already. It's not quite stable, but it's what has me patiently waiting instead of selling off my cards.


It's proof that these cards CAN work as advertised, a bit.  But no one really knows it, since they've only given it to a few select sites.


These cards have been in my system for well over a year, without a properly working driver. I'd step down to two VGAs, no problem, if they could get THAT working, but they haven't...yet...that same driver is what the 7990 will use, and that was me kind of bringing it back on topic...


I've waited for Crossfire and Eyefinity to work well for a long long time, and anyone that buys a 7990 will be left in the same boat, for now. That driver needs to be finished, and work right. That's not supposed to happen until July...how much longer after that for normal Crossfire users? Or will they do both at the same time?


These are questions I have, and don't have any answers to. I'm almost at the point where I'm done with AMD...I am not sure why I am so patient.


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## Ravenas (May 1, 2013)

and it appears...

SAPPHIRE 100350GAMESR Radeon HD 7990 6GB 384-bit x...


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## radrok (May 1, 2013)

Still not available here in Europe, just preorders.


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