# First build since 2000...  Yes, I'm OLD!  :)



## NinjaLegolas (Jul 18, 2013)

Fellas,
I would appreciate it if you would take a look at the build listed below.  This is my first build since 2000, so I'm sure some things have changed and I don't want to miss anything important.  I haven't yet picked a PSU, so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!  Also, any suggestions on alternate components are greatly appreciated!

I will be using this cpu for ANSYS CFD, FEA, and 3D CAD.  I need a lot of processing power, a decent professional graphics card, and fast ram.  

--------------------------------------------------
Samsung 840 PRO SSD
~$230

Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case with Upgraded USB 3.0
$99.99

GIGABYTE GV-N660OC-2GD GeForce GTX 660 2GB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
$209.99

GIGABYTE GA-Z87X-UD5H LGA 1150 Intel Z87 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
$229.99

COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 Continuous Direct Contact 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler Compatible with latest Intel 2011/1366/1155 and AMD FM1/FM2/AM3+
$33.99

LG Black 14X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 5X DVD-RAM 12X BD-ROM 4MB Cache SATA BDXL Blu-ray Burner, Bare Drive, 3D Play Back (WH14NS40) - OEM
$68.99

Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell 3.5GHz LGA 1150 84W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics BX80646I74770K 
+
G.SKILL Trident X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2400 (PC3 19200) Desktop Memory Model F3-2400C10D-16GTX
$496.98

Subtotal:	$1,369.93
------------------------------

Suggestions?

Thanks, 
LEGO


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## Red_Machine (Jul 18, 2013)

All seems pretty good to me.


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## Cyclops (Jul 18, 2013)

There are a lot of better options than the Antec 900 at that 100 dollar price point. You might want to look at cases from Fractal Design, Corsair, or Cooler master for better alternatives.

If you can muster 40 bucks more for a GTX 760, You'll be increasing the Cuda performance of your system by upwards of 50%.

If you're tight on money, grab a cheaper motherboard. Are you planning on overclocking? If the answer is no then grab a B85 or H87 equipped motherboard. Those chipsets are still overclockable so you won't lose much.

Blu-ray drive is a personal thing as I have no use for one. Looks like that you do though.

Memory bandwidth isn't a bottleneck anymore so you don't HAVE to have 2400 MHz memory. A simple 1600 MHz kit would do just fine. Keep in mind that if you decide to overclock the processor, the memory might not be able to run at that high of a speed as Haswell's memory controller is all over the place and is not consistent.

For Power supply, a decent 80+ certified unit will be sufficient. Something like a Corsair CX500 will do the job perfectly fine.

Other than that, good luck .


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 18, 2013)

if your actually buying the Antec 900 choose a better case for the love of god, if you already own it and are reusing it fine, by buying one now is just a waste


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## NdMk2o1o (Jul 18, 2013)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> if your actually buying the Antec 900 choose a better case for the love of god, if you already own it and are reusing it fine, by buying one now is just a waste



Yea the Antec 900 was good back in the day 2009 or so, but definately better options fromn Corsair and Fractal Design available at the same price point, I'd also try and go for a GTX 760 or at least the 660Ti, are you planning on overclocking? cause you have chosen a high end Gigabyte board (UD5) with mediocre cooling Hyper 212 Evo, UD3 should still yield a good overclock for most and you can get a better cooling along the lines of a Corsair h80i


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 18, 2013)

Get a cheaper Z87 board buy better cooling, cheap coolers are not gonna cut it with haswell, for sustained stress testing of an overclock. I know I have a test system here and that cooler.

2400 MHz isnt going to do anything for you when it comes to Auto CAD,  more mundane 2133mhz or 1866mhz kits will cut price down performance might drop 1% 

cheaper Z87 gives better budget for the GPU.

If your doing professional work then GeForce and Radeon GPUS are utterly worthless.
I did a review on the difference between professional and consumer GPUs awhile back

The Radeon HD 7970 at launch was $500, in professional apps it gets slaughtered by the W5000 which is the same price range and is roughly a 7770 in terms of consumer level, regardless it was on avg 80% faster in professional apps, In one instance it was 300% faster. 

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/2070/3/

as for gaming better gpu = better performance self explanatory.


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## drdeathx (Jul 18, 2013)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> if your actually buying the Antec 900 choose a better case for the love of god, if you already own it and are reusing it fine, by buying one now is just a waste





crazyeyesreaper said:


> Get a cheaper Z87 board buy better cooling, cheap coolers are not gonna cut it with haswell, for sustained stress testing of an overclock. I know I have a test system here and that cooler.
> 
> 2400 MHz isnt going to do anything for you when it comes to Auto CAD,  more mundane 2133mhz or 1866mhz kits will cut price down performance might drop 1%
> 
> ...





Cases are preference as is board but I will say the 900 is dated. He isn't going overboard on the motherboard. It is a good choice BTW and Radeons are not worthless. bahahahahah


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 18, 2013)

for professional apps actually yes they are, considering i doubt you do professional 3D work in the likes of Autodesk Maya, at least for AMD, they tend to break driver support on a regular basis, I had to put up with there shennanigans for nearly 1.5 years when they finally fixed the Open GL driver for those apps.

If you plan to do any serious professional work a Quadro or FirePro card is the way to go. If its a moon lighting situation where its once in awhile he does work in apps of that nature then GeForce is fine. I still wouldnt trust AMD in that regard as the 5000 / 6000 and 7000 series were broken in many of Autodesks products for a long long time.

Geforce cards work fairly well, they also have better support in many Autodesk products for various features. the 660  will be fine for general use but again if going further than that a Quadro or Firepro is a far better option.

4770K + Z87 UD5H combo swapping to a different board combo Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, L... saves $80
550D + 650HX
Corsair Neutron GTX 256gb
LG Blu-ray burner
EVGA GTX 760
Phanteks PH-TC12DX cooler
Gskill 16gb memory kit

CPU + Mobo Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, L...
Case + PSU Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, L...
SSD Corsair Neutron Series CSSD-N256GB3-BK 2.5" 256GB ...
Blu-Ray LG Black 14X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 5X DVD-RAM 12...
CPU-Cooler Phanteks PH-TC12DX_BK 120mm PWM CPU Cooler - Neweg...
Ram G.SKILL Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SD... (10% off with promo GSKILLSAVE10)
GPU EVGA 02G-P4-2761-KR GeForce GTX 760 2GB 256-bit GD...

Total cost = $1476

Total cost with cheaper mobo = $1400 included a PSU which you didnt list.

So going with the proper part selection its possible to get a GPU that is 20%+ faster in games and stay within the same budget while also getting a free game that could be sold off to gain a quick $30 dropping the optimized build down to $1370 or the UD5H option down to $1450


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## NinjaLegolas (Jul 19, 2013)

Thank you for the input fellas!  I'm working on coming up with alternates for your great suggestions.

I do plan to OC.  I enjoy maximizing my systems.  I don't want to go the route of water cooling.  The PC will be in my man cave and it stays pretty cold down there even in the dead of summer.   

The suggestions so far are:

  *  A different cpu case.  - I'm looking for a case with great air cooling.  I'm not to particular about the look of the case; although I wouldn't mind a sweet looking case with some blue LED's.  I'm more interested in performance.  Any specific suggestions?  I'm looking at newer cases but I've been out of the game so long I don't know what options to look for...  To be quite honest, this is a little overwhelming!   Mad  to you young guys that are up-to-date with everything.  *@ Everyone*, I aged myself with that pick eh?  

  *  Graphics card.  -  I will play a few games here and there, but the main purpose is for light SolidWorks and Autodesk Inventor use.  I won't go into the detail of using bolts/washers, ect, so assemblies will never get above ~75 - 100 parts at most.  I should plan for the future, so lets say 200 parts max.  ANSYS doesn't really need a great graphics card as I generally import .STEP files with simplistic geometry and work on them.  *@crazyeyesreaper*, Thanks for the article!  I'll check it out.

  *  Motherboard.  -  I really want to get a solid MB.  I don't mind overkill here.  If you have a better suggestion, I'm all ears!  

  *  Cooling.  -  I definitely want the best cpu heatsink/fan I can get that doesn't take up so much room that I can't use all of the ram slots.  I'll check out the corsair h80i.  thanks for the suggestion *NdMk2o1o!*

  *  PSU.  -  I'm truly clueless here.  I'll check out the Corsair CX500.  Thanks for the advice  *Cyclops!*

  * Memory.  -  I want decently fast memory for CFD and FEA purposes.  *@Cyclops* - I thought that OC'ing the processor had nothing to do with OC'ing the ram.  Is that not true?


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## AlienIsGOD (Jul 19, 2013)

i had an Antec 900 and upgraded to a Antec P280  900 weighs over 9000 lbs, whereas the 280 is quite light for its size and can hold E ATX mobos.  I also must say that with it fully fanned there isnt any temp issues whatsoever


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 19, 2013)

The two options I linked are solid the G45 is fine for most builds and should handle a moderate overclock fairly well,

Regardless my build above includes everything you will need including the PSU which is a Corsair HX 650 modular unit and a solid case that is also quiet  so quiet cool and a generally powerful system. As for The 3D work your doing the GeForce gpu should do alright for that long as its not seriously complex.

With Intel memory speed wont matter much the 1600 mhz kit I linked with the build will do fine at 1600 mhz you should still be above 20gb/s in bandwidth  for comparison and older AMD Phenom II system would be 13gb/s. 

So cheap options is MSI GD 45 Gaming series + 4770k the higher end board is the Gigabyte UD5H between the two is around $80 price difference real world performance difference 0.

memory wont give you a huge boost in anything you do, plenty of it will help for 3D and the like but speed is not going to matter that much.


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## NinjaLegolas (Jul 19, 2013)

@crazyeyesreaper  THANK YOU!  I posted my questions before I got to read all of your suggestions.  I like everything I see.  Great picks! Thanks a million.


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## thebluebumblebee (Jul 19, 2013)

Questions for you LEGO:
Noise:  Does it matter to you how much noise the system makes?  The H80i is not quiet.
Do you know that you can build a small powerful system today?  mATX is not lame like it used to be.
Do you think you'll use this system as long as the last?
Do you also listen to music with your system?


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## NinjaLegolas (Jul 19, 2013)

thebluebumblebee said:


> Questions for you LEGO:
> Noise:  Does it matter to you how much noise the system makes?  The H80i is not quiet.
> Do you know that you can build a small powerful system today?  mATX is not lame like it used to be.
> Do you think you'll use this system as long as the last?
> Do you also listen to music with your system?



@thebluebumblebee:  I would like a fairly quiet system.  I'm not going to use the H80i, not interested in water cooling.  I want to use a mid tower instead of mATX.  I don't think the mATX has enough room for expansion.  I'll probably use this system for the next 4-5 years unless I need something larger for work.  I listen to music in the adjoining room of my man cave.  Full 7.1 surround, but also plays music loud enough to wake the dead!  

I thought Optimus prime was awesome.  I would take some of his hi tech puke!  Definitely better than anything else!!!  

The case crazyeyesreaper picked is pretty sweet.  Nice, simple, and elegant.  Just my style.

Do you have some suggestions I should take a look at before pulling the trigger?


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## shovenose (Jul 19, 2013)

For power supply, definitely go Seasonic. Nothing is better than a Seasonic 

Check out SSR-360GP or SSR-450RM (both G series, one 360W, one 450W).


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## thebluebumblebee (Jul 19, 2013)

The Corsair 550D, Antec P280 and Fractal Design Define R4 are good candidates for your build.  The P280 is huge.
I don't really have anything to add to crazyeyesreaper's suggestions.


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## NinjaLegolas (Jul 19, 2013)

Check out http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1332-page6.html

The chart shows that the Phanteks PH-TC12DX with stock fans performs worse than the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus.  Can anyone confirm this?


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 19, 2013)

Its not really comparable temp wise to what you will get They use an Intel i7 965 thats a Nehalem CPU which is now 3 generations ago and was released in November 2008. thats 5 years old this fall. Due to the CPU design changes IHS changes difference between TIM vs Solder under the IHS things change essentially. 

the Corsair 550D has sound dampening material which helps mitigate noise meaning inside the case you will never hear the cooler I also happen to own the that cooler as I myself reviewed it.

If you setup your overclock properly the PH-TC12DX will perform better and still be quiet due to the case selection. I didnt just toss those parts together  I took there strengths and weakness into account.

The GTX 760 i picked is a reference card with overclocks the fans on most blower style coolers gets loud so sound dampened case helps mitigate that. The only thing missing in your build is a high capacity HDD for storage but you can grab that at any time and add it easily. 

Keep in mind my noise testing is done on an OPEN test bench, on a system that is essentially passive so the only noise recorded is the Cooler and its fans etc.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Phanteks/PH-TC12DX/6.html






Now with all that said I do have a Hyper 212 EVO and I do have Haswell 4770K what I can tell you is I myself do not feel comfortable trusting the Hyper 212 EVO with anything more than a mild overclock.

If you have money to burn I would suggest the Noctua NH-U12S with a second fan but the Noctua cooler + another fan to match ends up near $80-90 range.

The cheapest cooler with decent cooling for me has been the Silverstone Argon AR03 which has proven to be fairly good for the price just the baby blue with white kinda kills it in the looks department.


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## NinjaLegolas (Jul 19, 2013)

Ah, got it.  Thank you again crazyeyesreaper!  I'm going to pull the trigger on these parts tomorrow.  I will probably stick with the faster ram and overpriced MOBO, but all other components are from your suggestions!  Thank you for all of your help.  I truly appreciate it!


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## phanbuey (Jul 19, 2013)

just out of curiosity... what was the build in 2000?


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## HammerON (Jul 19, 2013)

NinjaLegolas - please do not double post. Use the "Edit", "Multi-Quote" or "Quote" features.
I merged your last two posts.
Thanks


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## NinjaLegolas (Jul 19, 2013)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> If you have money to burn I would suggest the Noctua NH-U12S with a second fan but the Noctua cooler   another fan to match ends up near $80-90 range.



Would the Noctua have better cooling capacity than the Phantech?  The Phantech has a larger volumetric flow rate 68.5CFM than the Noctua 55CFM, but I'm not sure about the heatsink surface area of each.  It would definitely be quieter, but as you stated, the sound suppressing foam in the 550D case takes care of a lot of noise.

1 more thing.  I just saw an NVIDIA GTX 760 with 4Gb of ram vs 2Gb for $40 more.  Think I'll go for the extra memory.  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130937&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&PageSize=10&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&IsFeedbackTab=true#scrollFullInfo



crazyeyesreaper said:


> just out of curiosity... what was the build in 2000?



I'll have to look it up tomorrow.  I can't remember everything.  I remember I oc'd a pentium 4 from 2.4Ghz to 3Ghz stable on air, but that's about it.  I should be able to find my old specs somewhere on my old HD.  I'll post them as soon as I find it.

------------------
Final build:  Thanks to all for the great advice!  crazyeyesreaper

EVGA 04G-P4-2766-KR GeForce GTX 760 4GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 SLI Support Video Card
$289.99

GIGABYTE GA-Z87X-UD5H LGA 1150 Intel Z87 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
$229.99

Phanteks PH-TC12DX_BK Dual 120mm PWM CPU Cooler
$49.99

LG Black 14X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 5X DVD-RAM 12X BD-ROM 4MB Cache SATA BDXL Blu-ray Burner, Bare Drive, 3D Play Back (WH14NS40) - OEM
$68.99

Corsair Obsidian Series 550D Black Aluminum / Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 
CORSAIR HX series HX650 650W ATX12V v2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
$219.98

Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell 3.5GHz LGA 1150 84W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics BX80646I74770K 
G.SKILL Trident X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2400 (PC3 19200) Desktop Memory Model F3-2400C10D-16GTX
$496.98

Samsung 840 Pro 256Gb
$230

Subtotal:	$1,585

Pulling the trigger tomorrow.  Any last minute suggestions before I ???

---------------
Thank you for helping with my double post *HammerON*.  I'll make sure it doesn't happen again.


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## thebluebumblebee (Jul 19, 2013)

crazyeyesreaper, I don't understand your dislike of the Hyper 212's.  I know of Folders using 212+'s on OC'd i7-860's running 24/7 without a problem and that generates more heat than will a Haswell.  212+'s on AMD G34 CPU's that are 125 watt processors w/o a problem.  And the EVO is better than the 212+.

Another cooler to consider is the COOLER MASTER TPC 812 review


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## DannibusX (Jul 19, 2013)

thebluebumblebee said:


> crazyeyesreaper, I don't understand your dislike of the Hyper 212's.  I know of Folders using 212+'s on OC'd 17-860's running 24/7 without a problem and that generates more heat than will a Haswell.  212+'s on AMD G34 CPU's that are 125 watt processors w/o a problem.  And the EVO is better than the 212+.
> 
> Another cooler to consider is the COOLER MASTER TPC 812 review



You only need to read the first 5 letters of his screenname to understand.


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## thebluebumblebee (Jul 19, 2013)

Since you're getting a quiet build, why not a quieter graphics card?  MSI GTX 760 TwinFrozr Gaming 2 GB review


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 19, 2013)

Maybe because I have a 4770K and a Hyper 212 Evo and at anything higher than 4.2 GHz the hyper hits the danger zone where the CPU will thermal throttle.

Whats the point of having a heatsink they can't pass stability testing without thermal throttling with temps in the 100C range?

A mild overclock of 4.2ghz with voltages below 1.2 are afine but once you go over that and you start using extreme memory which the OP is an idiot for insisiting on since it wont do a damn thing for his performance. All this increases heat and thus creates a problem


Voltage controller for the CPU is no on die
XMP = higher voltages and overclocks the chip by 200 mhz vs stock and boosts voltages even higher.
Due to lack of solder under the IHS the heat transfer is sub par when pushing the CPU
I was lucky my 4770K is an amazing chip but not everyone is so lucky and those chips that dont have low voltages are going to run hot.

People certainly dont have to listen to my suggestions but I don't really see anyone offering concrete data in this thread.

Regardless
Corsair Neutron GTX 256GB SSD is a far better deal and it uses the LAMD controller not Sandforce so its been more reliable and has better performance for less compared to the samsung
The Gskill Trident X is amazing memory the performance gain for the extreme price is worthless. Also keep in mind that with some coolers and more than 2 sticks you wont have proper clearance for the memory which means a price ram purchase is rather worthless.
Hyper 212 is a decent cooler on a stock 4770K, what ppl seem to forget is all the days when it performed well were on CPUs with Solder under the IHS not TIM. Things are different now 

Quick little tid bit when stress testing XMP memory profiles with 4.2GHz + 3.9GHz cache at 1.15v even coolers like the Phantek PH-TC14PE end up in the 80c + range under stress testing. The Hyper 212 hit 98c and thermal throttled same goes with the NZXT Respire T40 and other cheaper coolers. 

Hell even at stock due to how the dynamic voltage works can cause issues.

With XMP enabled my chip hits 1.235 volts at STOCK when stress testing with Prime95/ LinX / Aida FPU that those volts the Temps get within 4'C of thermal throttle as the CPU is given a higher voltage when the FPU is stressed alone when using AVX extentions and the like.


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## NinjaLegolas (Jul 19, 2013)

thebluebumblebee said:


> Since you're getting a quiet build, why not a quieter graphics card?  MSI GTX 760 TwinFrozr Gaming 2 GB review



Thank you for the suggestion thebluebumblebee.  The logic for my choice is as follows.  I saw that the 4Gb version of the GTX 760 was only $40 more than the 2 Gb version and assumed the extra memory would be better for 3D modeling.  I am not overly concerned about the noise since the case has sound suppressing material in it.  I am a little concerned that the graphics card may expel heat back into the case instead of out of the case like the higher end gtx models.

Performance is much more important than noise in my case.  I want to overclock as much as possible and run my cpu 24/7 for a day or two at a time during cfd and fea analyses.  So, heat is a major concern.  The cpu will be downstairs in a corner of my man-cave where the ambient air temp doesn't get above 75F during the hottest days off the year.  A little fan noise won't bother me since the entertainment system is in a different room of my man-cave and quite a distance away from my cpu desk.  



crazyeyesreaper said:


> Corsair Neutron GTX 256GB SSD is a far better deal and it uses the LAMD controller not Sandforce so its been more reliable and has better performance for less compared to the samsung



As for the ssds, everything I've read, including the component specs Corsair http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233403 and Samsung http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147193 indicates the Samsung 840 pro series is faster than all other ssds even with the outdated controller.  Samsung has SUSTAINED sequential read and write speeds of 540MB/s and 520MB/s.  Corsair has MAX sequential read and write speeds of 540MB/s and 450MB/s.  Samsung has higher 4K random read by 17,000 IOPS, but slightly slower random write speeds by 5,000 IOPS.  Samsung seems to be the winner here.



crazyeyesreaper said:


> The Gskill Trident X is amazing memory the performance gain for the extreme price is worthless. Also keep in mind that with some coolers and more than 2 sticks you wont have proper clearance for the memory which means a price ram purchase is rather worthless.


@crazyeyesreaper - I am a little concerned that the high profile of the ram I chose in conjunction with the heatsink may render two of the memory slots unusable.  I will take another look at the profile and dimensions of the 1600mhz ram.  

*What is the purpose of faster ram if it won't help performance?  I don't get that and you seem to have a sound handle on components.  Well you please explain that to me? * 

Cfd and fea programs constantly write computational results to a file and then write the results of the next iteration to another file, so read and write speed is extremely important to me.


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## AlienIsGOD (Jul 19, 2013)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> Maybe because I have a 4770K and a Hyper 212 Evo and at anything higher than 4.2 GHz the hyper hits the danger zone where the CPU will thermal throttle.



from what ive been reading around the net, the 212 isnt sufficient for Haswell.  IB and SB are a different story.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 19, 2013)

NinjaLegolas said:


> Thank you for the suggestion thebluebumblebee.  The logic for my choice is as follows.  I saw that the 4Gb version of the GTX 760 was only $40 more than the 2 Gb version and assumed the extra memory would be better for 3D modeling.  I am not overly concerned about the noise since the case has sound suppressing material in it.  I am a little concerned that the graphics card may expel heat back into the case instead of out of the case like the higher end gtx models.
> 
> Performance is much more important than noise in my case.  I want to overclock as much as possible and run my cpu 24/7 for a day or two at a time during cfd and fea analyses.  So, heat is a major concern.  The cpu will be downstairs in a corner of my man-cave where the ambient air temp doesn't get above 75F during the hottest days off the year.  A little fan noise won't bother me since the entertainment system is in a different room of my man-cave and quite a distance away from my cpu desk.
> 
> ...



High performance memory does improve performance its also needed when benchmarking and essentially trying to 1 up other ppl with your epeen. It can improve benchmarks scores in things like Super Pi and some video encoding and in some very rare cases it can improve game performance by 1-3 fps. The fact is tho in all those tests upping the CPU clock will give a larger benefit. 

Check for yourself 2133 vs 2933 etc 
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/GSkill/F3-2933C12D-8GTXDG/6.html

very little gains as you can see.

For 3D apps and going with large data sets larger pool of system memory is more effective than faster memory. This is why render farms and the like are usually heavy on CPU core and ram density but lower in terms of clock speeds.

For what your doing the memory I picked will fit no problem under that heatsink and its 2x 8gb so you can expand to 32gb if you wish to do so. Granted I find that uneccessary as I do 3D modeling myself in Autodesk Maya / Mudbox / Zbrush and Photoshop and even with millions of polygons etc I havent really had any issues with just 8gb of memory as is. 16gb would improve my performance and allow greater detail in Mudbox but its not neccessary for what I do. As I said I matched up the parts for what is a balanced rig and reduced cost where possible without sacrificing quality.
Samsung to Corsair the SSD wont matter the Corsair is cheaper performance you will never notice the difference they are so close. so why spend more? for no gain.


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## NinjaLegolas (Jul 20, 2013)

NinjaLegolas said:


> from what ive veen reading around the net, the 212 isnt sufficent for Haswell. IB and SB are a different story.



What are IB and SB?


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## McSteel (Jul 20, 2013)

Ivy Bridge and Sandy Bridge, "code" names for Intel's previous two CPU architectures. He means to say that the newest offerings from intel (code name Haswell) are running hotter and slower than the previous generations, even though they are somewhat more efficient in their calculations per cycle. This is because Haswell integrates some of the voltage regulation circuitry on the processor package/die, thus producing more heat and interference.

Oh, and, from glancing the thread, you're going with a Corsair HX650 as your PSU, correct? It's a combo deal with the 550D Obsidian, if I'm not mistaken...

You could actually do better (quieter) on that front, but that may add some $30-40 to your final price.


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## NinjaLegolas (Jul 20, 2013)

McSteel said:


> Ivy Bridge and Sandy Bridge, "code" names for Intel's previous two CPU architectures. He means to say that the newest offerings from intel (code name Haswell) are running hotter and slower than the previous generations, even though they are somewhat more efficient in their calculations per cycle. This is because Haswell integrates some of the voltage regulation circuitry on the processor package/die, thus producing more heat and interference.
> 
> Oh, and, from glancing the thread, you're going with a Corsair HX650 as your PSU, correct? It's a combo deal with the 550D Obsidian, if I'm not mistaken...
> 
> You could actually do better (quieter) on that front, but that may add some $30-40 to your final price.



What do you recommend?

My purchase has been delayed until Monday, so I have the weekend to mull over any last minute changes.


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## AlienIsGOD (Jul 20, 2013)

look into Phanteks coolers, they have a good rep from what i have read review wise.  Im sure Haswell users can chime in with what they are using as well on their chips.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 20, 2013)

ive been retesting my coolers with Haswell as we speak. So far the best cooler so far has been the PH-TC14PE which is of course an extreme air cooler however it is powerful enough to push far higher in terms of clocks than the usual coolers that get recommened. The PH-TC12DX is not bad its just not great either. however when on rebate on newegg or when on sale its a solid performer for the price with good noise characteristics aka the dual fans do not have any harmonic noise issues which can be annoying.

550D is fairly quiet the 650HX isnt silent but in that case and with the savings and free shipping there isnt much to be had that equals them in a combo deal for less money right now.

Altho things very well may change when monday rolls around. Newegg hardly ever sits still on long term deals so newer better faster parts could possibly be on sale starting monday.


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## McSteel (Jul 20, 2013)

I think the Define R4 Titanium Grey + Capstone 650 are a nice combo, and even a bit cheaper, while being about as good as Obsidian 550D + HX650. The PSU is tangibly better, and the Case is a bit below (but not much!) - all in all better value for money, IMHO.

Oh, and as for the PSU not being modular: One can always hide excess cables behind MoBo tray, no?


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 20, 2013)

Define R4 I own its a decent case, but is a bitch to clean the filters in the front as it requires pulling everything apart other than that. Solid case the Captstone 650 is also solid but not modular.


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## McSteel (Jul 20, 2013)

I believe it's decent enough of an alternative that it deserves being mentioned/proposed.

Also, AC Freezer i30. I'm simply in love with it, which, regrettably, means I'm biased. Have you ever tried/tested/used it yourself? I wonder how well it does on Haswell...
I can vouch for it's quality and performance, at least with SB/IB. And it's inexpensive to boot.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 20, 2013)

I have no experience with the AC Freezer i30 however from its appearance I would expect it to perform decently, It has a versatile mounting system which means the cooler can be installed so that all heatpipes run across the CPU die instead of just one.

(Haswell appears to be slightly off center [ll ]  like so with a cooler arranged with the heatpipes like so = means more heat transfered to heatpipes which can increase cooling at least in my testing by 2-3'C some coolers it makes no difference its a hit or miss situation.

That said with Haswell its better to go big then go adequate if you plan to overclock. That doesnt mean users need to spend alot of money. An example would be the Phanteks PH-TC14PE its a giant heatsink it requires standard height ram however it can be found on sale on Newegg fairly often in the $75 range. When it comes to coolers and Haswell I will have alot more info available in the near future as I am still rebenching and re evaluating coolers I have on hand.


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## NinjaLegolas (Jul 21, 2013)

Gents,
Thank you all for your outstanding advice!  I truly appreciate the help.  

This is what I've decided to go with.

EVGA 04G-P4-2766-KR GeForce GTX 760 4GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 SLI Support Video Card
$289.99

GIGABYTE GA-Z87X-UD5H LGA 1150 Intel Z87 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
$229.99

Phanteks PH-TC12DX_BK Dual 120mm PWM CPU Cooler
$49.99

LG Black 14X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 5X DVD-RAM 12X BD-ROM 4MB Cache SATA BDXL Blu-ray Burner, Bare Drive, 3D Play Back (WH14NS40) - OEM
$68.99

SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD256BW 2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
$239.99

Corsair Obsidian Series 550D Black Aluminum / Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 
CORSAIR HX series HX650 650W ATX12V v2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
$219.98

Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell 3.5GHz LGA 1150 84W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics BX80646I74770K 
G.SKILL Trident X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2400 (PC3 19200) Desktop Memory Model F3-2400C10D-16GTX
$496.98

Subtotal:	$1,595.91

Thanks again, and I will let you know how the build goes.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 21, 2013)

well good luck I wouldnt have wasted the money on the high end memory but each their own I suppose. After 2133 gains just seem to fall off and price tends to increase exponentially


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## silkstone (Jul 21, 2013)

Edit - I didn't read through the thread. Sorry

Damn! $500 for 16gb of memory. Seems like overkill seeing as you could have gone for a 780GTX and 8-16gb of 'normal' memory.


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## NinjaLegolas (Jul 21, 2013)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> well good luck I wouldnt have wasted the money on the high end memory but each their own I suppose. After 2133 gains just seem to fall off and price tends to increase exponentially



The memory is bundled with the processor to yield the price listed.  The gskill trident x 2400mhz 16gb (2x 8) ram cost the same as the 1600mhz; $169!  The memory has same price and physical size, so I got the faster of the two.  Check it out on newegg.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 21, 2013)

the memory i picked out was much lower than that 

$137 for the memory I picked out and it has a 10% promo code so thats about $13 off so $124 give or take vs $169 for add in my CPU and Mobo combo and the price difference with the GD 45 board saves well over $80 + 40 = $120 if not more.

Thats enough of a price difference to push up to an even stronger GPU or add in a high capacity HDD for storage, etc etc


With the higher end UD5H + CPU combo saves $30
CPU + RAM saves $23 so even as is your combo deal setup has you spending another $7 just because of what you picked for a combo.

I just dont see you getting a return on your investment with such a high end memory kit. Ill put it this way  Cadaveca the motherboard reviewer here has intel extreme processors high end $400 motherboards extreme memory kits etc. And for gaming and day to day tasks on his personal rig its set to run stock because the gains just arent worth it. I myself still overclock but primarily on the CPU and GPU as memory performance just doesnt matter as much except in very select situations.

Essentially your setup is around $1600 vs the $1370-1470 I picked out the performance difference between them will be pretty much non existant

going with the GD45 + CPU puts me $230 lower than your current configuration thats almost enough to squeeze in a GTX 780 3GB  into the build and end up at roughly the same price point with further combo deals and part swap outs its possible to make a 4770K system + GTX 780 fit that budget of nearly $1600.


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## NinjaLegolas (Jul 21, 2013)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> going with the GD45   CPU puts me $230 lower than your current configuration



Will you please link the GD45 mobo?  I can't seem to find the earlier link for it.

I'm not sure about using the Gskill Ares ram as I plan to OC it.  I don't expect great performance increases, but OCing does help pass the time on a boring evening!  

I want to OC the processor to at least 4.5Ghz.  That and the fact that I like the quality parts that Gigabyte uses in its mobos are the main reasons I didn't skimp on the mobo.  

Do you see any problems with me being able to hit 4.5Ghz on air with this setup?

Ideally, and probably for my next build in a few years, I will go with a better setup for professional use.  I would love to get a LGA 2011 six core processor and quad channel ram, but I simply can't justify a $7500 cpu right now.  I can justify a supped up gaming rig to last me a few years.  

My major concern at this point is the graphics card.  I know that geforce isn't as good as firepro or quadros, but I don't want to spend $500 on a mid-level graphics card if I can't justify it right now.  Hence, the 4gb mid level gaming card for half that price.  I think/hope it will be sufficient.  It should at least beat out the firepro 4900 professional CAD card which is the graphics card used in all workstations at the engineering firm I worked for.  That card ($149) could get the job done for the level of detail needed for prototypes.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 21, 2013)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> for professional apps actually yes they are, considering i doubt you do professional 3D work in the likes of Autodesk Maya, at least for AMD, they tend to break driver support on a regular basis, I had to put up with there shennanigans for nearly 1.5 years when they finally fixed the Open GL driver for those apps.
> 
> If you plan to do any serious professional work a Quadro or FirePro card is the way to go. If its a moon lighting situation where its once in awhile he does work in apps of that nature then GeForce is fine. I still wouldnt trust AMD in that regard as the 5000 / 6000 and 7000 series were broken in many of Autodesks products for a long long time.
> 
> ...



4770K + GD45 Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, L...

THe above combo + all other parts I picked will fit just change out the GTX 760 for the following. Galaxy 78NNH5DN00G0 GeForce GTX 780 3GB 384-bit GD... or MSI N780-3GD5 GeForce GTX 780 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PC...

With a bit more shuffling of parts etc it should be possible to get everything down to $1600 total

I also dont see the point in the Blu- Ray burner since no one will burn Blu-Ray to expensive cheaper to just buy mass flash storage lol. Watching Blu-Ray movies on the monitor that would be nice I guess
As you can see with proper promo codes etc and some bundles prices can get knocked down pretty quick

And never mind stock ran out at newegg so you missed out on the cheaper build I need to find a better alternative again.

Seems i have to start from scratch.







Total Cost $1600 sell the game coupon for $30 and that will cover shipping expenses etc.

Sadly couldnt make the GTX 780 fit, the combo deals that made it possible earlier has expired oh well this is still in the same budget and yet faster then what you had picked out.


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## mikeyanrol@yahoo.com (Jul 23, 2013)

Different individuals have different opinions on the same product, which is quite natural. I am not opposing anyone on this thread, but just would want to comment that sandforce controller SSDs are the best ones I have ever used in terms of performance & reliability!


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 23, 2013)

There not that good Sandforce 2 SSDs on some SSD models dont work properly with Haswell and Z87 namely OCZ Vertex 2 and Corsair F60 to name two. Add in the firmware issues among others and Sandforce has proven to have a mixed track record on the whole. No brand is without faults tho as SSDs are still primarily a new tech.


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## Cotton_Cup (Jul 24, 2013)

Didn't read everything else but just going to recommend stuff anyway.

Corsair 600T (White) I like white and it's an amazing case but more expensive but yes like what others said, there  are other variations at the 100$ bracket instead of the antec.

well if you're going to overclock the shit out of it even if not, I think the Corsair H100i is a great and silent investment.

for the ram, those rams are really fast but I do recommend the Corsair Dominator Platinum just for the kick ass looks well I like it better. I'm on to corsair products lately hahaha been liking them and even made an update to my system. after junking off my tj11 and used their 600T. (didn't really junk it off but gave it to the "Love of my Life" ^_^.

for psu I'd say Corsair ax760i/860i 80plus platinum (I normally recommend the seasonic but just loved the ax860i planning on getting some for my other build after selling off my other seasonic. and yes you won't probably use that much power so even the fanless 520 was it? or 550 or something from seasonic 80plus gold is a great investment.

for the gpu you can get a pro graphics any are good from nvidia, but a cheaper variation would be the gtx 760 (good for the money).

btw post some pics once you get them ^_^

Here's a build I picked up. you can make it cheaper by going for a different chassis, removing the hdd and going for a older one if you have one. changing the psu to a gold rated or to a silver rated one from corsair or any brand you like. i went with the corsair h110 for very nice cooling so long as it fit the case hahahaha but a h100i is great.
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1jZHc


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## NinjaLegolas (Aug 4, 2013)

*Pics of build.*

Here are some pics of the build.  I made a few last minute changes to help my OC'ing ability.  Went with Asus Hero vs Gigabyte and Corsair H100i instead of air cooling.  I'm happy with the changes.  The case, Corsair 550D, made the build easy and keeps the cpu extremely quiet.  I'm loving it!  Thanks for all your suggestions!

Pushed the rig to 4.8Ghz with 16Gb of ram at 2400Mhz pretty easy using Asus's AI Suite III, but it wasn't stable on Prime95.  I'm not sure why people use Prime95 to test stability... I've never seen a program that taxes all 8 threads 100% all the time and I perform CFD and FEA analyses.  Ran Prime 95(full load 8 threads) for ~8 hours at 4.4Ghz.  I still think there is more head room to play with since I am using 1.275V to hit 4.4Ghz with temps in the 70's.  A little tweaking and I think I can get 4.5-4.6Ghz stable on Prime95.  Have to read more in the mobo manual and oc'ing threads to figure out exactly what values I need to tweak.  Asus's Hero MB allows you to tweak everything in bios and most everything in windows!  It's pretty amazing.


















About to run it through some benchmark programs to see how it ranks with other builds.  Any suggestions for which programs to use now-a-days?

You may have noticed there is no graphics card.  Haven't gotten it yet.  I'm leaning towards the AMD W5000 for Solidworks CAD work. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814105007

I need a wifi card to stream videos, but not really interested in playing a lot of games.  Any suggestions?

Thanks again!  and MAD


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## MT Alex (Aug 4, 2013)

Looks clean as a whistle, nice job


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