# MSI's 890FX-GD70



## GSquadron (Dec 12, 2009)

It is time to face the truth, why did they put 6 pci express in that motherboard?
I think it is not silly, it is simply idiotic to buy that kind of motherboard. 2 pci express are lets say ok, 4 are silly and 6 are terrible. Who in the world buys that motherboard and 6 graphic cards to run them all in 4x? u better buy one with 2 pcie and than run them in 16x or 8x cuz with pci express 2 that is not a problem. But this mentality of mine could be bad cuz i have heard the company is willing to put pci express 3 which doubles the band width of 2 and it has been launched since 2007, all 6 cards will run in 8x mode. If they dont use this kind of technology, i think this is the worse buy ever!!


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## dir_d (Dec 12, 2009)

Who said you have to use Graphics cards in those PCI-E slots...If i didnt have my 790FX GD70 id buy it because the only PCI card i have is my sound card, all the other cards i have are PCI-E. You know you can put a PCI-E 1x Card in a PCI-E 16x port and it will negotiate down to 1x right. Because of this it makes this board great, you have so many options, you can plug in any card you need to and up to 6 Graphics cards if you wanted.


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## GSquadron (Dec 12, 2009)

Ok, but who knows about the cards


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## Disparia (Dec 12, 2009)

I do 

Don't knock the slots. Besides this board there are only three others that I can name with 6 or 7 x16 (physical) slots. They give flexibility of placement and/or the use of add-on cards such as RAID controllers, NICs, TV tuners, sound cards, along with multiple video cards.

A minority situation? Yes, but that is why we're grateful when a manufacturer provides another option to choose from.


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## 2wicked (Dec 13, 2009)

That board reminds me of the isa to pci transition.
"omg that board has 6 pci slots and only one isa ,who the hell is going to use that" Years later the cycle repeats!


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## Deleted member 67555 (Dec 13, 2009)

they also make PCI-E SSD's 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227498

Sure one might say "WTF Who can Afford That"


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## GSquadron (Dec 13, 2009)

256 GB for only 1000$!!!! WHO IS THAT ***************************** who is going to buy that? Where the hell did u find this hardware man? It must be superbly fast but 4$/1Gb it is not worth to buy


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## assaulter_99 (Dec 13, 2009)

Thats what are ssd's my friend! lol And believe me, they are selling like hot cakes.


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## Disparia (Dec 13, 2009)

Both Z-Drive models available on Newegg just went out of stock, lol.


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## BraveSoul (Dec 13, 2009)

6 identical slots look better and more symmetrical then say 2(16x) 2 (1x) and an older pci slot


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## Deleted member 67555 (Dec 14, 2009)

If there is something, you want to expand on, there will be a new faster slot right?

It's just PCI-E taking on it's Role as Stated, and why might this be important for AMD you ask....
Because Some newer Intel chips have PCI-E Limitations, where as AMD does Not,
Gimmicky, Yeah....

But it'll sell


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## GSquadron (Dec 22, 2009)

Well looks like i predicted again even in motherboards, the chipset is going to support pci express 3.0. In fact it supports well 4 graphic cards in 8x speeds and 2 others are for ssd or sound cards.
By pure chance i was searching in fudzilla for an asus motherboard when i saw something really interesting about this technology. Have a look for yourself!
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/8237/69/


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## H82LUZ73 (Dec 22, 2009)

I came looking for pics Link please 


Uhm this the one ? http://www.guru3d.com/news/msi-890fxgd70-motherboard-photos/

Is it me or MSI turned a corner or hired all the ex epox guys,Man there main boards giving me some goosebumps...Oh mean tent .....damn that and the 790fxgd70 look sweet.


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## erocker (Dec 22, 2009)

Aleksander Dishnica said:


> Well looks like i predicted again even in motherboards, the chipset is going to support pci express 3.0. In fact it supports well 4 graphic cards in 8x speeds and 2 others are for ssd or sound cards.
> By pure chance i was searching in fudzilla for an asus motherboard when i saw something really interesting about this technology. Have a look for yourself!
> http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/8237/69/



Sounds awesome, where can I buy one?


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## PP Mguire (Dec 22, 2009)

jmcslob said:


> they also make PCI-E SSD's
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227498
> 
> Sure one might say "WTF Who can Afford That"





Aleksander Dishnica said:


> 256 GB for only 1000$!!!! WHO IS THAT ***************************** who is going to buy that? Where the hell did u find this hardware man? It must be superbly fast but 4$/1Gb it is not worth to buy


You thought that was bad?

http://www.fusionio.com/ioxtreme/

Yes, im going to be getting one in the near future.



Aleksander Dishnica said:


> Well looks like i predicted again even in motherboards, the chipset is going to support pci express 3.0. In fact it supports well 4 graphic cards in 8x speeds and 2 others are for ssd or sound cards.
> By pure chance i was searching in fudzilla for an asus motherboard when i saw something really interesting about this technology. Have a look for yourself!
> http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/8237/69/



No pci-e 3, just more pci-e lanes from the chipset.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#PCI_Express_3.0

Why are you getting your panties in a wad over this anyways? If your that awestruck over it then just get something else instead.


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## MKmods (Dec 22, 2009)

Aleksander Dishnica said:


> It is time to face the truth, why did they put 6 pci express in that motherboard?
> I think it is not silly, it is simply idiotic to buy that kind of motherboard. 2 pci express are lets say ok, 4 are silly and 6 are terrible. Who in the world buys that motherboard and 6 graphic cards to run them all in 4x? u better buy one with 2 pcie and than run them in 16x or 8x cuz with pci express 2 that is not a problem. But this mentality of mine could be bad cuz i have heard the company is willing to put pci express 3 which doubles the band width of 2 and it has been launched since 2007, all 6 cards will run in 8x mode. If they dont use this kind of technology, i think this is the worse buy ever!!



When I saw this I remembered seeing something similar when looking for a X58 mobo

How about 7!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188059

Now for the e-peen crowd 4 way SLI is pretty cool (except that 3 way isant much better than 2 way, lol) That 2Kwatt PS is starting to look good to me..

Personally I like the all PCI X slots (time to get rid of the old PCI slots anyways) What I wish for is a way to configure the slots the way the user wants in the bios, that way I could decide what slots had X16 and so on.


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## PP Mguire (Dec 22, 2009)

I cant wait till it takes a direct 220 hookup from your breaker box.


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## Disparia (Dec 22, 2009)

^ Wire it up, power supplies are usually a percent or two more efficient when running @ 220/240v.

When I took out my central air handler/heater, I left the wiring in place (240v/60a) for future server rack.


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## PP Mguire (Dec 22, 2009)

Its OT, but i dont even have 220 in my house.


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## Disparia (Dec 22, 2009)

Sure you do... but I'm going to stop right there since I'm not a qualified electrical technician 


MKmods, 







Four x16 @ 2.0 x16, no configuration needed  Though if I was going to get picky.. be nice if I could have gotten an x8 instead of two x4's at the bottom for a nice RAID controller.


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## PP Mguire (Dec 22, 2009)

Jizzler said:


> Sure you do... but I'm going to stop right there since I'm not a qualified electrical technician
> 
> 
> MKmods,
> ...



Lol no i dont. I have 220 coming TO my house but its split into 2 110 lines for 2 circuits. My dad is certified and i watched what he did. Btw, were building our house and the electrical, albeit hard wired, is rigged.


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## Disparia (Dec 22, 2009)

Odd... but I guess anything is possible when "rigged" 


More PCIe pron to keep derailment to a minimum:


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## MKmods (Dec 22, 2009)

Jizzler said:


> Sure you do... but I'm going to stop right there since I'm not a qualified electrical technician
> 
> 
> MKmods,
> ...


Now load it up with 4 of these and we are good to go Aleksander Dishnica, just let me know when ur ready and Il make you a SFF case for them....
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133253

Wait, what was this thread about?


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## Disparia (Dec 23, 2009)

Had something to do with PCIe... probably not having enough:






If nVidia didn't have the stifling limit of 8 GPU's in a system...


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## PP Mguire (Dec 23, 2009)

Jizzler said:


> Odd... but I guess anything is possible when "rigged"
> 
> 
> More PCIe pron to keep derailment to a minimum:
> ...



Its split into 2 110 lines. My dad did this.

His breaker box
Output 
30amp breaker
20amp breaker

1 cable

My breaker box
Input 
30amp breaker
20amp breaker.

2 circuits, technically 220, but only dual 110 LOL


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## sttubs (Dec 23, 2009)

dir_d said:


> Who said you have to use Graphics cards in those PCI-E slots...If i didnt have my 790FX GD70 id buy it because the only PCI card i have is my sound card, all the other cards i have are PCI-E.* You know you can put a PCI-E 1x Card in a PCI-E 16x port and it will negotiate down to 1x right.* Because of this it makes this board great, you have so many options, you can plug in any card you need to and up to 6 Graphics cards if you wanted.



I was not aware of that, thanks for the info.


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## nt300 (Mar 8, 2010)

Aleksander Dishnica said:


> 256 GB for only 1000$!!!! WHO IS THAT ***************************** who is going to buy that? Where the hell did u find this hardware man? It must be superbly fast but 4$/1Gb it is not worth to buy


If you think Read: Up to 750MB/s and Write: Up to 650MB/s is fast for about $800 then you should look at OCZ new PCIe SSD's that will do more than 1,300MB/s Read and 1,100MB/s Write 

By now companies need to be coming out with motherboards with as many PCIEx16 slots as possible. I rather hav x16 than x1 or x4 or x8, with x16 you can plug in any one of them and give you good flexibility


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 8, 2010)

nt300 said:


> If you think Read: Up to 750MB/s and Write: Up to 650MB/s is fast for about $800 then you should look at OCZ new PCIe SSD's that will do more than 1,300MB/s Read and 1,100MB/s Write
> 
> By now companies need to be coming out with motherboards with as many PCIEx16 slots as possible. I rather hav x16 than x1 or x4 or x8, with x16 you can plug in any one of them and give you good flexibility



I think either video cards need to be refined where they use single slot coolers or motherboards need to have the top 2 PEG slots spaced properly so all slots can be utilized and the PCI Org needs to Force all accessory board makers to have PCI E only devices and phase out PCI devices.


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## nt300 (Mar 8, 2010)

You make good point. I hate that my HD 5770 has a dual slot cooler because I lose one of my PCIe slots.


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## GSquadron (Mar 8, 2010)

The reason for all of this is that the pci - express need to be as near to the ram and northbridge as possible, that is why they produce them so near. Normally if you dont like it and than buy it, it is your opinion that turns down from ice to water. The companies produce the boards as standart as possible, so what if there would be a pci-express between the nb and ram? What is more is that the pci - express needs to be near the cpu, so there is a lot of complex there, of which the enginners of all companies of boards have thought of. In my book of computers that i study at university, it clearly says you cannot "break the rules" of the board architecture. So what is left to do here is to create a second floor boards that makes the prices go HIGH UP to milion of dollars, as it is something new, not explored, impossible or better saying it is the same thing as making diamonds in a laborator, which normally can't be done. We all must think of something that does not break the rule, but breaks the pourpose of this so called "architecture rule"


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## nt300 (Mar 9, 2010)

I think the whole point here is GPU's need to come with real good single slot cooling and make it as good as double slot cooling performance. All you hav to do is get 2 GPUs with dual slot cooling and you' wiped out the rest of the PCIe slots. Not being able to use the extra PCIe slots is a waist.


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## Formula350 (Mar 11, 2010)

nt300 said:


> I think the whole point here is GPU's need to come with real good single slot cooling and make it as good as double slot cooling performance. All you hav to do is get 2 GPUs with dual slot cooling and you' wiped out the rest of the PCIe slots. Not being able to use the extra PCIe slots is a waist.



Gigabyte made it work  Sure you might not want to use that 3rd PCIe x1 slot, but it IS usable still.
(BTW check out the cute lil' BIOS in the bottom right corner!)


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## nt300 (Mar 11, 2010)

Formula350 said:


> Gigabyte made it work  Sure you might not want to use that 3rd PCIe x1 slot, but it IS usable still.
> (BTW check out the cute lil' BIOS in the bottom right corner!)


So you use 2 of the PCIe x16 and lose 1 PCIe x1 and 1 PCI, but you gain 2 PCIe x1. That is a good layout. I like the PCIe x1 above the PCIe x16. Good move But I don't like Gigabyte all too much.


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## Formula350 (Mar 11, 2010)

nt300 said:


> So you use 2 of the PCIe x16 and lose 1 PCIe x1 and 1 PCI, but you gain 2 PCIe x1. That is a good layout. I like the PCIe x1 above the PCIe x16. Good move But I don't like Gigabyte all too much.



My old NF4 GB board uses virtually the same layout, except it doesn't have 3 PCIe x1, only 1 between the x16 slots. :\

I've owned 2 GB systems, both treated me very well. My last being the current NF4 board I've used since 96! Heavily OCed 24/7 never complained  Before that was my second AthlonMP rig I ran for like 2+ years OCed and 24/7 as well  So now I'm on my third with my 890GX based, which I won't be able to sport till I get a CPU lol

The only company I'm not a fan of, only due to how they work their BIOS and set it up, is ASUS :\ Not that they aren't great boards, just I spent so much time on my GB that when I went to tweak my friend's P45 ASUS board, I ran into nothing by brick walls. Was quite frustrating :S


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 11, 2010)

I still dont like board layouts, I say move the Graphics cards to the bottom or have at least 2 PCI devices above the video cards and then 2 at the way bottom spaced for the other PEG slot


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## DaedalusHelios (Mar 11, 2010)

MKmods said:


> When I saw this I remembered seeing something similar when looking for a X58 mobo
> 
> How about 7!
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188059
> ...



7 8800gt's for folding nirvana? 8800gt's can be had as cheap as $50 shipped on the BST forums lately.


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## Super XP (Mar 14, 2010)

DaedalusHelios said:


> 7 8800gt's for folding nirvana? 8800gt's can be had as cheap as $50 shipped on the BST forums lately.


Wow, now that is what I call a Motherboard. That's out it should be done all the time 
Can you imagine 7 x 8800GT's  How well do you think it would scale?


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## TheLaughingMan (Mar 14, 2010)

DaedalusHelios said:


> 7 8800gt's for folding nirvana? 8800gt's can be had as cheap as $50 shipped on the BST forums lately.



I was wondering what took so long.

Folders will eat this board up.  To have 6 GPU's in a single rig for folding would be awesome.  Saves space and money for parts as you will need less mobos, cases, PSU's, etc.  A 24 card farm now is 6 complete computers, while this will bring that down to only 4.  Same production, 2 less rigs to worry about.


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## Kantastic (Mar 14, 2010)

Super XP said:


> Wow, now that is what I call a Motherboard. That's out it should be done all the time
> Can you imagine 7 x 8800GT's  How well do you think it would scale?



Shouldn't even need to scale, I recall folding doesn't require the cards to be run in SLI mode.


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## TheLaughingMan (Mar 14, 2010)

Kantastic said:


> Shouldn't even need to scale, I recall folding doesn't require the cards to be run in SLI mode.



They specifically are not suppose to run in SLI.


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## Formula350 (Mar 14, 2010)

TheLaughingMan said:


> I was wondering what took so long.
> 
> Folders will eat this board up.  To have 6 GPU's in a single rig for folding would be awesome.  Saves space and money for parts as you will need less mobos, cases, PSU's, etc.  A 24 card farm now is 6 complete computers, while this will bring that down to only 4.  Same production, 2 less rigs to worry about.



Why only 6/7? Run GTX295 and have 12/14 

Unless you can write off all those high ass dollar components, what is the point (I mean other than self gratification that you are helping out) of dropping all that cash for folding?


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## erocker (Mar 14, 2010)

Formula350 said:


> Why only 6/7? Run GTX295 and have 12/14
> 
> Unless you can write off all those high ass dollar components, what is the point (I mean other than self gratification that you are helping out) of dropping all that cash for folding?



Competition, just like overclocking. Whoever crunches the most is win. If you're the competitive sort.


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## Formula350 (Mar 14, 2010)

erocker said:


> Competition, just like overclocking. Whoever crunches the most is win. If you're the competitive sort.



Jeebus :S I'd rather openly admit to liking Knight Rider by using KITT as the backdrop to my sig image, than go and drop that much coin on making a box just to fold  


(I kid, while I don't have anything against Knight Rider, I do love my Firebird. Hence my name, owned a 91 with the 245hp 350 TPI and now a 93 with the 275hp LT1 )


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## Super XP (Mar 14, 2010)

All I know is that was the mother of motherboards. If you are looking for longevity, this motherboard seems to fit the bill. I would prefer an AMD/ATI chipset of course .


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## nt300 (Mar 14, 2010)

same here.


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## TheLaughingMan (Mar 14, 2010)

Formula350 said:


> Jeebus :S I'd rather openly admit to liking Knight Rider by using KITT as the backdrop to my sig image, than go and drop that much coin on making a box just to fold
> 
> 
> (I kid, while I don't have anything against Knight Rider, I do love my Firebird. Hence my name, owned a 91 with the 245hp 350 TPI and now a 93 with the 275hp LT1 )



I think you can actually get a Tax credit for building folding rigs.  It ain't much, but it helps.

So to the guy who help to pass that tax credit thank you for helping us help you help us all.


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## Formula350 (Mar 14, 2010)

Super XP said:


> All I know is that was the mother of motherboards. If you are looking for longevity, this motherboard seems to fit the bill. I would prefer an AMD/ATI chipset of course .



Surprised no one linked these two:













TheLaughingMan said:


> So to the guy who help to pass that tax credit thank you for helping us help you help us all.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 14, 2010)

whats the point when you cant utilize all slots due to being single slot spacing!? Im sorry onboard audio is still not as good as a Sound Card, also what if i would like to have one of those direct PCIE SSDs installed instead of a SSDrive that hooks through SATA?


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## Formula350 (Mar 14, 2010)

eidairaman1 said:


> whats the point when you cant utilize all slots due to being single slot!?



I don't see the point PERIOD lol



> Im sorry onboard audio is still not as good as a Sound Card



I happen to be one of those who is quite content with onboard sound now. Before RealTek went to HD, it was decent but obviously could be improved on with a dedicated card. I'm anxious to find out how my ALC892A sounds  You could go ATi though and run CFX Sound Cards  That'd be like... 49.7 Surround Sound  



> also what if i would like to have one of those direct PCIE SSDs installed instead of a SSDrive that hooks through SATA?



:\ That is certainly a lot of "what-ifs" you are dropping  If it is a dedicated Crunch Box, get just a single SATA6 card, throw it in the bottom slot and run more than just 1 SSD at probably the same performance as the PCIe model. Though I'm totally ignorant when it comes to the whole SSD market, and I could be wrong heh


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## TheLaughingMan (Mar 14, 2010)

Formula350 said:


> Why only 6/7? Run GTX295 and have 12/14



Cause they are dual slot cards and you can't put 6/7 of them on a board, just 3, so we are back where we stated with 6 total GPUs.




Formula350 said:


> Surprised no one linked these two:
> 
> http://www.fierysource.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/evga-classified-x58-4way.jpg
> 
> http://techgage.com/images/news/evga_w555_010810.jpg



Cause EVGA are always over priced IMO.


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## GSquadron (Mar 14, 2010)

yeah the prices are extreme with evga. normaly none would buy them if they dont have enough budget, or they know what we all are talking about. amd rig is cheap and very affordable to be build for anyone.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 14, 2010)

I remember when they were Garbage


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## Formula350 (Mar 14, 2010)

TheLaughingMan said:


> Cause they are dual slot cards and you can't put 6/7 of them on a board, just 3, so we are back where we stated with 6 total GPUs.



True, I didn't think of that, however you COULD run 4 if you ran it on either a modified case, or just simply on a custom bench top case, so you can utilize the last PCIe slot 





> Cause EVGA are always over priced IMO.



True, but they make some fancy boards  I dig their black+gray color scheme one.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Mar 15, 2010)

if your not aware there are pcie riser cards so u can use all those slots so to be blunt your wrong all those slots can be used and probably will be as anyone whos gonna drop cash on that setup will undoubtably pay for the ribbon cable risers so they can install all there gpus and have space so they stay cool ive seen said riser cards sell on TPU in the B/S/T forums more then a few times


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## Formula350 (Mar 15, 2010)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> if your not aware there are pcie riser cards so u can use all those slots so to be blunt your wrong all those slots can be used and probably will be as anyone whos gonna drop cash on that setup will undoubtably pay for the ribbon cable risers so they can install all there gpus and have space so they stay cool ive seen said riser cards sell on TPU in the B/S/T forums more then a few times



You can find them on eBay too, or just google it, there's a few I've ran across. Hell I even stumbled across a PCI-X->PCIe x8 card  Worst thing was yesterday, a friggen PCIe x1 LPT!


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## crazyeyesreaper (Mar 15, 2010)

my point is the motherboards not usless id use the riser cards to create space and to better control heat

have fans angled from each direction in a custom setup so that the air moves through it and exhausts at the top and out the back granted it would need to be a hand made case but so worth it with the kind of cash spent on said setup u could run 6 GTX 285s for folding using a 24pin pass through ive seen a few times run dual psus and away you go imagine a 2 i7 980x 6cores 12 threads  for a total of 12 cores  or 24 threads with 6 GTXs that single rig in a custom case could fold and crunch like no ones buisness and im pretty sure with 3 way sli on a couple cards u could probably kick some serious ass in game benchs as it stands.  So yea anyone with that many slots who wants to run that many cards will find a way and when its done and you see it in all its glory you wont care about the price you wont care about all the PCIe slots on the board all your gonna care about is wishing you had it  cause i know i do

and face it we dont need it but as enthusiasts we all know we want it  MOOOAAARRR   GPU POWER PLS


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## nt300 (Mar 15, 2010)

Having all slots as PCIe x16 is much better than having a mix of PCIe x1 or x4 or x8 with the x16. Who needs risers when you can get water cooling with single slot cooling  But ye the riser is a good idea.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Mar 16, 2010)

well true water cooling is nice but imagine the amount of space needed for the rads to handle 6 gtx 285s overclocked and a heavily overclocked thuban or i7 in those situation regular water kits wont handle it but again if u gonna drop in 6 gpus you probably can afford the water kit haha


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## Formula350 (Mar 16, 2010)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> well true water cooling is nice but imagine the amount of space needed for the rads to handle 6 gtx 285s overclocked and a heavily overclocked thuban or i7 in those situation regular water kits wont handle it but again if u gonna drop in 6 gpus you probably can afford the water kit haha



Since I'm a car guy, I bet a standard 90s era Honda Civic/Accord radiator (about the size of a full tower case, if that big) would work perfectly  If I ever go water cooling, I'm just going to buy a damn heater core for a Suburban or something! Will cost either as much or CHEAPER then a purpose build PC water radiator! Some vehicles even use all copper units and still are only like $70


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## DaedalusHelios (Mar 16, 2010)

Formula350 said:


> Since I'm a car guy, I bet a standard 90s era Honda Civic/Accord radiator (about the size of a full tower case, if that big) would work perfectly  If I ever go water cooling, I'm just going to buy a damn heater core for a Suburban or something! Will cost either as much or CHEAPER then a purpose build PC water radiator! Some vehicles even use all copper units and still are only like $70



The first watercooling systems on PC's used car radiators/heatercores. People still use them even today although fan mounting and painting is extra work.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Mar 16, 2010)

function over form is all i will say if it works thats what matters


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## Formula350 (Mar 16, 2010)

DaedalusHelios said:


> The first watercooling systems on PC's used car radiators/heatercores. People still use them even today although fan mounting and painting is extra work.



Don't doubt that in the slightest, but a lot of people who grew up either in the more modern time of computers and water cooling or are new to computers/water cooling, might not know that. Then there are those who just simply don't know how to think outside the box  Mounting a fan is also easy if anyone is wondering how you might go about it. They sell "electric cooling fan mounting kit" for anyone who is ditching their mechanical engine fan on an older car, are adding an addition fan or are adding a fan to an aftermarket cooler for like a transmission. They're painfully simple, as it's just a hard plastic 'stick' with bead notches all the way down, which goes through the fins to the other side of the radiator, and a washer with a soft rubber or foam pad slips over the beads semi-tight so it can't fall back off. Snip the excess and you're set. TADA!!

Another great alternative, for anyone interested, would be the radiator used on some water cooled bikes (dirt bike might be the cheaper option) or 3 or 4-wheelers.


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## driver66 (Mar 16, 2010)

Zip ties........... Problem solved....


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## Formula350 (Mar 16, 2010)

driver66 said:


> Zip ties........... Problem solved....



lol yea I know, but for $10 (or maybe less at the local auto parts store) it is peace of mind knowing I'll be keeping the fins nice. Plus I'm pretty sure those are reusable. Reusing zip ties is a hassle unless you can find the nice ones with the little release on it


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