# Stock AMD thermal paste quality?



## moproblems99 (Sep 30, 2019)

Getting ready to assemble my 3700X build and realized I was out of my normal past (NTH1).  I have sopme XSPC K2 and XigmatekPTI-G4512 laying around and wondering if it is worth using one of them instead of AMD's paste.  What do you think?

I thought about waiting on the build until I get some NTH2 or something else but that is just silly talk.  I am replanning my custom loop so this paste is only going to be temporary.


----------



## Zach_01 (Sep 30, 2019)

I'm sure that factory quality paste is more than ok. I've never had any short of issues. For normal usage and low OC will be just fine.
Its the CPU cooler itself that its not the best. Except the bigger one that comes with 3900X. Take care the case air flow/cooling and you would be fine.


----------



## moproblems99 (Sep 30, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> I'm sure that factory quality paste is more than ok. I've never had any short of issues. For normal usage and low OC will be just fine.
> Its the CPU cooler itself that its not the best. Except the bigger one that comes with 3900X. Take care the case air flow/cooling and you would be fine.



It's going into a Tower 900 case that I could probably live in myself if I had to so I am not too concerned about airflow at the moment.  I suppose I could just the AMD paste and if it is a problem then I can sub it out.  I will be using the stock cooler for a bit until I figure out what I am going to do with my loop.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 30, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> Getting ready to assemble my 3700X build and realized I was out of my normal past (NTH1).  I have sopme XSPC K2 and XigmatekPTI-G4512 laying around and wondering if it is worth using one of them instead of AMD's paste.  What do you think?
> 
> I thought about waiting on the build until I get some NTH2 or something else but that is just silly talk.  I am replanning my custom loop so this paste is only going to be temporary.





Zach_01 said:


> I'm sure that factory quality paste is more than ok. I've never had any short of issues. For normal usage and low OC will be just fine.
> Its the CPU cooler itself that its not the best. Except the bigger one that comes with 3900X. Take care the case air flow/cooling and you would be fine.



3700X comes with a Wraith Prism. Pretty respectable.

The problem with the AMD pre-applied paste is not  the "quality" of the paste, more that it's too _sticky_. With how AMD's weak retention PGA sockets work, sometimes the cooler will stay stuck to the IHS of the chip and rip the CPU straight out of the socket.

Having heard the horror stories, I never used pre-applied paste. I have so many little syringes of NT-H1 and AS5 that I never have to look far. I don't see why that K2 wouldn't work, given that your setup will be temporary anyways.


Somehow, I knew there was going to be that one person throwing in with "that can happen with any paste". Have you seen, felt and used the stock paste on the AMD coolers? They may as well start calling it "thermal tape". No, it doesn't happen with a regular, decent paste like NT-H1 - just loosen up the cooler and wiggle until it comes free.


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Sep 30, 2019)

That’s not because it’s “too sticky” .. it can happen with any paste. The issue lies in forming an airtight seal that suctions it to the cooler. And that’s not a bad thing either...


----------



## Zach_01 (Sep 30, 2019)

Just let the pc warm up and the cooler itself with minimum fan rpm and quickly shutdown and remove cooler with a rotation move. Warm paste makes it alot easier.



tabascosauz said:


> 3700X comes with a Wraith Prism. Pretty respectable.


Sorry for the wrong info, I had other impression...


----------



## Kissamies (Sep 30, 2019)

With a twist, the CPU shouldn't come along with the cooler when removing it.


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Sep 30, 2019)

Yep, always give it a wiggle from side to side to break the bond.


----------



## moproblems99 (Sep 30, 2019)

So I ended up going with the Xigmatek to see how it worked.  Any who, my impressions of the Tower 900 are so-so at the moment.  The case itself is great with tons of room and will make a great, clean, nice looking build.

Where the problems lie is in the overall quality of the craftsmanship.  So far, 2 of chromey thumb screws that hold the front glass panel on, don't seem to be drilled straight.  So the knobs don't sit flush on the glass.  And when I say not drilled straight, I mean it isn't even close.  I could probably do better with my eyes closed.  It's disappointing for what is an expensive case ($260 when not on sale).  I might be able to tweak the flange and straighten them out but that shouldn't be needed.

EDIT: Actually, of the twelve chrome thumbscrews, five of them are drilled crooked.  Piss poor quality.  I saw that in the reviews people complained of it but my T81 from Tt was built quite nice.


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Sep 30, 2019)

If unhappy with it, send it back!


----------



## HTC (Sep 30, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> 3700X comes with a Wraith Prism. Pretty respectable.
> 
> *The problem with the AMD pre-applied paste is not  the "quality" of the paste, more that it's too sticky.* With how AMD's weak retention PGA sockets work, sometimes the cooler will stay stuck to the IHS of the chip and *rip the CPU straight out of the socket*.
> 
> ...



I can attest to that.



TheMadDutchDude said:


> That’s not because it’s “too sticky” .. it can happen with any paste. *The issue lies in forming an airtight seal that suctions it to the cooler*. And that’s not a bad thing either...



Regardless, that's some mighty "suction power" ...


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Sep 30, 2019)

It’s all about the suction. There’s nothing inherently sticky about it.


----------



## moproblems99 (Sep 30, 2019)

You should always do the twist.  Problem solved.

Edit:. Have to save I am impressed with the box cooler that comes with the 3700x.


----------



## 1000t (Sep 30, 2019)

Hi!
I've replaced the stock cooler on my 3700X after two months. I used hair dryer on low setting to heat up the heatsink a little bit, 20 seconds was enough. The paste at room temperature seems to be somewhat stiff and given the generous amount that is pre-applied it holds the heatsink well.

With help of a bathroom appliance and twist it's easy to remove the stock cooler.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Sep 30, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> so this paste is only going to be temporary.



If temporary, then why worry?


TheMadDutchDude said:


> That’s not because it’s “too sticky” .. it can happen with any paste. The issue lies in forming an airtight seal that suctions it to the cooler. And that’s not a bad thing either...


Right. Always remove heatsinks with a little twisting motion and yes, if cold, running the computer for a few seconds to warm up the TIM may help. 

But, there are "adhesive" TIMs used to actually glue heatsinks to devices when there is no heatsink mounting mechanism. So in some cases, it is all about being "too sticky".


----------



## moproblems99 (Sep 30, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> If temporary, then why worry?



It could be 1 month or 6 months or more.  I am replanning my loop and may go hard tubing this go round which could easily chew up time while I over think everything


----------



## Bill_Bright (Sep 30, 2019)

It does not matter - even if it ends up staying there permanently. 

Your thread title suggests you are concerned about the "quality" of the OEM TIM (thermal interface material). The "quality" is excellent! That is, it is not full of corrosives or hard chunks of impurities that would interfere with proper mounting and allow insulating air to get trapped in between the processor and heatsink. 

It is important to understand the primary purpose of TIM. It is NOT to transfer heat! It is to fill the microscopic pits and valleys in the mating surfaces to push out any insulating air that might otherwise get trapped within. The best transfer of heat occurs with direct metal to metal contact, so in reality, any excess TIM is in the way! This is why applying as thin a layer as possible is desired. 

If you "need" the few degrees of extra cooling a top "performing" TIM may provide to keep from crossing thermal thresholds and triggering thermal protection features, you have greater problems to deal with first - such as better case cooling. 

Because Man cannot - yet - create perfectly flat surfaces with 0 pits and valleys, the use of TIM is critically important. 
A proper application of TIM is critically important.
Keeping temps comfortably within the normal operating range of the device is critically important.
Obtaining the lowest temps possible is not.


----------



## 64K (Sep 30, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Because Man cannot - yet - create perfectly flat surfaces with 0 pits and valleys, the use of TIM is critically important.
> A proper application of TIM is critically important.



True. The surfaces look and feel flat but they are not. Looked at under a microscope it's clear why TIM and a proper application of it is important.


----------



## ShurikN (Sep 30, 2019)

HTC said:


> I can attest to that.
> Regardless, that's some mighty "suction power" ...


Happened to me with an aftermarket paste on an old AM2 build. So it's not entirely the paste's fault.


----------



## robot zombie (Sep 30, 2019)

Yeah... I've definitely had aftermarket pastes try to grab pga CPUs out of the socket. One time it actually did! Was Arctic MX-4. Cryonaut always really wants to grab it for me too, though I've always twisted loose.

I always think back to taking apart peanut butter cracker sandwiches. Works every time. Never pull if you can help it. Just keep twisting until it slides a little and then you can easily pivot it to one side to remove the cooler.

Come to think of it, I can't remember a time when the TIM didn't want to grab the CPU, no matter which brand. Always assumed it was due to air being pushed out creating suction. It's almost worse the fresher the paste is. As it cures out it seems to relax a little.

On OEM TIM... if there's a difference I've never seen it. I'll put it this way... I've never used a stock cooler where the temperature problems were due to the TIM. It's always been the cooler. 

I used to fret over brands of paste and performance... now I'm at a point where I have all of these little pouches and syringes of stock paste from different coolers that I randomly choose from. If I do pick a certain brand it's because I like how it applies. Never had temperature problems that weren't better corrected by changes to the cooling setup itself. Better paste just isn't enough to make a dent.

No need to overthink it. Personally I have gone with the preapplied paste on bundled Ryzen coolers several times and it's been fine. I was actually impressed with how well those coolers held up. They're great if you're just running stock in an average-performimg case.

Honestly it's kinda nice... the way it's spread in an even layer takes out the possibility of having to reapply. You just know it's gonna mate properly and there will be just enough where it's needed. They're nothing if not consistent.


----------



## moproblems99 (Sep 30, 2019)

Well, I can say I didn't really like the consistency of what on the stock hsf.  It was almost the consistency of jello where the pti was at least spreader.  It also was really thick...at least 1mm probably more.


----------



## Zach_01 (Sep 30, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> It also was really thick...at least *1mm* probably more.


That is not possible... I just looked at my stock Ryzen cooler and thickness could not be more than 0.1mm


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 30, 2019)

Most thermal paste that comes pre-applied to heatsinks or in a packet is usually a DuPont thermal grease which is cheap and works.  It doesn't improve with time or anything...it just does what is necessary.

Something like Arctic Silver 5 in the short term isn't as good as the DuPont thermal grease but as it sinters, it improves to exceed DuPont's thermal grease.

TL;DR: it's fine, you don't have to change it unless you remove the HSF for some reason (e.g. screwed up installing it the first time).


----------



## MrPotatoHead (Sep 30, 2019)

Yea stock thermal paste/pads on stock heatsinks is more than finefor regular use, if you overclock then it's a null point anyway as you want better than the stock cooler and hence will likely need to buy  thermal paste, I've used mx4 and coolermaster pro gel something-or-other in recent memory and both are within touching distance of each other,, as it is with the stock stuff you might gain a few (4-5c) degrees by using a branded TIM but under a stock cooler unless you're banging on 90c then there's no immediate requirement to go out and buy some and swap it out.

Who doesn't have some sitting around in a tube or sachet anyway? I've got some CM stuff on hand if and when I ever need it and have had generic sachets I have got with motherboards or cheap HSF and generally tend to keep them just in case.


----------



## Zach_01 (Sep 30, 2019)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Something like Arctic Silver 5 in the short term isn't as good as the DuPont thermal grease but as it sinters, it improves to exceed DuPont's thermal grease.


Its true...
I always use AS 5 for at least the last 16~17 years. If I remember correctly AS 5 needs about 200 hours and a few dozens cycles (warm>cool>warm>cool) to settle properly.


----------



## moproblems99 (Oct 1, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> That is not possible... I just looked at my stock Ryzen cooler and thickness could not be more than 0.1mm
> 
> View attachment 132982



While, 1mm was likely overboard, mine was thicker than that (and different color).  I could almost scrape it off it a single sheet.  It was pretty thick(viscous, and thick) at room temperature.  It was easily twice as thick as I put it on.  Anyways, like I said in the beginning it is temporary and I was mostly interested in other's experiences with its performance.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Oct 1, 2019)

If someone had a stuck cooler pull the processor out of the socket, then that's the user's fault for pulling on it with too much force. As mentioned several times, always twist and pull. Twist (back and forth if necessary) to break the bond, then pull to remove. NEVER just pull to "force" separation. 



FordGT90Concept said:


> Most thermal paste that comes pre-applied to heatsinks or in a packet is usually a DuPont thermal grease which is cheap and works.


DuPont makes several types of thermal "grease" so not sure what you mean here. The most basic "thermal grease" is pure silicone which was (and still is) used as the standard for decades. And it still works great. BTW - "grease" has never been used. Silicone paste is often used as an alternative to grease - a type of "lubricant" so perhaps that's how it became known as thermal grease.

Thermal "pads" often come pre-applied to coolers. They too have been much improved compared to those of yesteryear. But I personally still don't like them - though my reasoning is probably no longer justified. 

A CPU can go from cold to hot in just a few clock cycles and they operate at billions of cycles per second.
Those pads take a few seconds to melt and distribute the TIM across the die upon first power up before becoming effective (see item 1). 
Those pads consist mostly of very pure, fast melting paraffin which is suppose to quickly evaporate away once melted, leaving the TIM particle behind.  I just don't like the idea of a petroleum distillate potentially running over the edge of my CPU.
For those reasons, even with builds that will never be heavily tasked, I always immediately remove those pads and apply an aftermarket TIM - typically AS-5 because I have tubes of it laying around.


----------



## d3adf1sh (Nov 30, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> Its true...
> I always use AS 5 for at least the last 16~17 years. If I remember correctly AS 5 needs about 200 hours and a few dozens cycles (warm>cool>warm>cool) to settle properly.



i used AS-5 for years too until i did my first custom liquid loop and after 3 mounts and a month or two still wasn't getting prime95 temps that i liked (kept over heating) and finally decided to try something different and went with Gelid gc-extreme and immediately knocked like 7c off my temps and got me prime stable.  also it doesn't cure/dry out over time.  may want to give it a shot.  it's def worth the 5 or 10 bucks you'll spend.


----------



## Zach_01 (Nov 30, 2019)

d3adf1sh said:


> i used AS-5 for years too until i did my first custom liquid loop and after 3 mounts and a month or two still wasn't getting prime95 temps that i liked (kept over heating) and finally decided to try something different and went with Gelid gc-extreme and immediately knocked like 7c off my temps and got me prime stable.  also it doesn't cure/dry out over time.  may want to give it a shot.  it's def worth the 5 or 10 bucks you'll spend.


Yeah, AS5 was ment for high temps and custom liquid loop is not the appropriete setup to use AS5. Last 2+ years I use corsair 280mm AIO and I was thinking lately to switch to something else, even if my temps are pretty nice with AS5. I'm not replacing paste too often so the 7gr last me over 15years... still have some.

AIO fans: 800~1300rpm (range is 500~2200rpm but no need to go over 1300rpm)
ambient: 24C
idle: ~32C avg
browsing/videos: ~35C avg
gaming: 50~53C
100% consistent load: <65C

Gelid gc-extreme is 1 of a few I'm thinking to go with...


----------



## FreedomEclipse (Nov 30, 2019)

MX-5 is pretty cheap and a pretty good performer for the money better than any stock paste


----------



## VulkanBros (Nov 30, 2019)

Last week I got a sample of Cooler Masters MasterGel Maker.....I have used MX-4, AS-5 and Gelid Extreme in the past.
Must say - this MasterGel Maker has dropped my temps around 4 degrees celsius (AS-5 used before on this CPU)
So cool stuff  And let me say - for normal use and no OC the AMD applied paste is more than adequate

Ohh... and have a look at this: How to Install or Remove an AMD CPU Cooler
As one said - slightly twist the CPU when removing


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Nov 30, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> Getting ready to assemble my 3700X build and realized I was out of my normal past (NTH1).  I have sopme XSPC K2 and XigmatekPTI-G4512 laying around and wondering if it is worth using one of them instead of AMD's paste.  What do you think?
> 
> I thought about waiting on the build until I get some NTH2 or something else but that is just silly talk.  I am replanning my custom loop so this paste is only going to be temporary.



Read somewhere that AS5 doesnt do as well as AMD stock paste.
But since AS5 has a set up period, that could have been wrong. Cant believe everything I read in forums though.

I dont think the stock thermal paste is all that horrible really. Jt does the job to spec as it should.

Did not use the stock paste myself, replaced it straight away with known quality paste to be sure of no issues.
However....
Stock paste should be fine until you build a custom loop. Just dont expect miracles !!


----------



## Bill_Bright (Nov 30, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> I dont think the stock thermal paste is all that horrible really.


It's not! I wish everyone would realize that (or stop refusing to accept it). Is it the best there is? No. Does it need to be? NOOOOO!!!!!

If you "need" the 5, 6 or even 10°C the best TIMs (thermal interface materials) give you to keep from crossing over thermal protection thresholds, you (as in you, the user) have failed to set up your case cooling properly, or you have set your clocks/voltages too high.


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Dec 1, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> It's not! I wish everyone would realize that (or stop refusing to accept it). Is it the best there is? No. Does it need to be? NOOOOO!!!!!
> 
> If you "need" the 5, 6 or even 10°C the best TIMs (thermal interface materials) give you to keep from crossing over thermal protection thresholds, you (as in you, the user) have failed to set up your case cooling properly, or you have set your clocks/voltages too high.



Well I used it (stock paste) on my A320 and Ryzen 1400 x4 smt chip. Does just fine. The heat sink just needs cleaning a lot because we have pets.......

But yea, I'd say it's close to that Cooler Master stuff they got at best buy. Not the greatest.... but in a pinch, yea I've grabbed a tube.

Would I see a difference taking the time to spread my IC Diamond in replace of it?? Very certainly sir. I'd say an easy 5-6c all day.

For performance users and enthusiasts, there's just certain pastes you use under sub zero temps too. Those aren't always good for ambient flavors.


----------



## d3adf1sh (Dec 1, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> It's not! I wish everyone would realize that (or stop refusing to accept it). Is it the best there is? No. Does it need to be? NOOOOO!!!!!
> 
> If you "need" the 5, 6 or even 10°C the best TIMs (thermal interface materials) give you to keep from crossing over thermal protection thresholds, you (as in you, the user) have failed to set up your case cooling properly, or you have set your clocks/voltages too high.



or want a mild overclock and to turn off stuff like cool n' quiet, c1e, etc, etc


----------



## Bill_Bright (Dec 1, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> The heat sink just needs cleaning a lot because we have pets.......


I hear you there. But then that's why for years, all my cases have had removable, washable, air filters. Of course with the mutt and grand-rugrats running around, they get clogged up too. 



d3adf1sh said:


> or want a mild overclock


Well, you can even achieve mild overclocking with OEM TIM and OEM coolers - in a properly cooled case.


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Dec 1, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> I hear you there. But then that's why for years, all my cases have had removable, washable, air filters. Of course with the mutt and grand-rugrats running around, they get clogged up too.
> 
> Well, you can even achieve mild overclocking with OEM TIM and OEM coolers - in a properly cooled case.



Yea the case has filters, I still perform maintenance cleaning.

Ah heres a picture real quick. 

When not in use tucked away closed cabinet.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Dec 1, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Yea the case has filters, I still perform maintenance cleaning.


Oh sure. Filters are great but they don't totally eliminate dust and pet hair from getting inside and building up. On my main computer (which is typically running 6 - 8 hour minimum per day) I used to have to take it outside to blast out the crud 3 - 4 times per year as the Antec case I was using didn't have filters. And it was not uncommon for there to be a blanket of dust and hair in there, with heatsink fins nearly clogged. These days, with this Fractal Design filtered case, maybe once a year and even then the amount of dust is much less. Of course, I still have to clean the filters every few months, but that is much easier than breaking down the computer and lugging it outside.


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Dec 1, 2019)

I pulled the Gtx770 out and installed a cooler running 760 instead. As you can see the space is confined.

Even with the stock paste the cpu runs cool enough. Cant OC the board. I did that purposely so I dont break the darn thing. I have a habit to overclock everything ya know.....lol

No issues with stock paste on a stock setup. Even with the boost clocks runs fine. Max temps typically in the 60s. The cpu has only been maxed when I ran a few benchmarks and with the stock cooler never reached throttle at 90c but was in the lower 80c range which is safe.
Its a good rig. Designed for kids really. Runs a 4k 55" TV very well. Family enjoys netflix and disney ect with a nice looking picture. And at a low cost. 
Didnt even need to buy thermal paste. Just used to stock stuff. Works fine.


----------

