# Will moon mining be banned?



## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Feb 3, 2017)

This year, five space mining companies plan to send missions to the lunar surface in the hopes of mining the moon for precious metals.

But a caveat in international space law could prevent the firms from cashing in.

The law states that parties can't appropriate any part of space, and if they do, the materials extracted will have to be fairly distributed.








The warning comes from Professor Sa'id Mosteshar, director of the London Space institute of Property and Law, who told The Sun: 'Once it becomes feasible [to mine the moon] the whole range of space treaties will kick in and the 16 member states that have ratified it will raise an objection to appropriating any part of outer space.

'There is an international treaty to which virtually every country in the world is a party to and that parties cannot appropriate any part of Space.

'Any individual they authorise to carry out Space activities must be subject to control.'

The warning comes shortly after Moon Express announced its plans to set up a mine on the moon to bring back precious resources, including metals and moon rocks.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/private-company-aims-land-moon-this-year-mine-it-riches-1604374


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## dorsetknob (Feb 3, 2017)

Some one (Politician's from various country's) is  going to argue that Space is already used for private commercial use and so those treaty's are unenforced(able).

For Arguments sake
use of Communication satellites for TV/Phones ect 
Forthcoming private commercial hotel Space ( Biglow for one).
Where there is Potential for Profit Its going to be Exploited Laws be Dammed and Circumvented


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## Devon68 (Feb 3, 2017)

It should be banned.


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Feb 3, 2017)

i added a poll


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## dorsetknob (Feb 3, 2017)

Devon68 said:


> It should be banned.


Want to buy a copy of the _Ferengi_ rules of Acquisition only 3 strips (+ 1 slip Tax)  of Gold Pressed latinum


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## P4-630 (Feb 3, 2017)

As if humans not destroy enough already....


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## Ferrum Master (Feb 3, 2017)

Asteroids should be a better thing to mine.

But for initial stage of building a mothership(read deathstar)... there will be no options really...


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## MIRTAZAPINE (Feb 3, 2017)

I would say absolutely no. The surface area of the moon less than half the size of asia. Judging by how fast humans deplete thing from mining, it would not take long for that rock moon to be depleted.

Asteroids are better options.


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## FireFox (Feb 3, 2017)

Well, if they allowed Neil Armstrong they should allow anyone that want to go.


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## dorsetknob (Feb 3, 2017)

Same laws and treaty's apply to Asteroids as they do to the Moon !


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## Ferrum Master (Feb 3, 2017)

dorsetknob said:


> Same laws and treaty's apply to Asteroids as they do to the Moon !



Well... screw it


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## FYFI13 (Feb 3, 2017)

Heck why not to? If it contains any valuable resources, then mine out every single bit of it. It's like having an apple tree in your backyard and not taking any apples from it.


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## R-T-B (Feb 3, 2017)

I'm not opposed to it in concept, but the law as it is written now is clear:  They can't.


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## GreiverBlade (Feb 3, 2017)

one wondering ... if they mine it, it will diminish the mass of it ... thus it will affect the effect that the moon has on earth, right?

that can't be good nonetheless ...


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## rtwjunkie (Feb 3, 2017)

GreiverBlade said:


> one wondering ... if they mine it, it will diminish the mass of it ... thus it will affect the effect that the moon has on earth, right?
> 
> that can't be good nonetheless ...


The moon has less of an effect as time goes on anyway.  It is moving steadily away from the Earth, although at such a slow, almost imperceptible rate that it will be a billion years or more before the moon is finally free of our gravity and the Earth becomes nearly uninhabitable because of the loss of the moon.

If anything, mining the moon and bringing mass to Earth, will actually slow the rate at which the moon pulls away from us, due to less mass there and more mass here.

@Knoxx29, it's not about going there. It's about mining.


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## silentbogo (Feb 3, 2017)

I think there is no way we can circumvent moon mining, if we want to go anywhere in space (including mining asteroids).
At some point there will be a pressing need for a launch station on the moon, and we won't be able to bring this many construction resources from Earth to build it.
Someone has to mine it, refine, bring them to usable condition etc. from the moon itself. Same goes for fuel (I hope by that time someone goes through with fusion rockets or some better alternative to current incendiary propellants).


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## alucasa (Feb 3, 2017)

Allow it under a condition that they will maintain an active, manned, colony on Luna.

See how they react.


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## jsfitz54 (Feb 3, 2017)

First one to do it WINS!

WINNER makes the rules.

EDIT:  What about the native inhabitants?


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## FireFox (Feb 3, 2017)

rtwjunkie said:


> @Knoxx29, it's not about going there. It's about mining.



The moon does not belong to anyone so screw the caveat in international space law.


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## rtwjunkie (Feb 3, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> The moon does not belong to anyone so screw the caveat in international space law.



Methinks you're not understanding....nations actually signed a treaty to make sure it doesn't belong to anyone.


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## alucasa (Feb 3, 2017)

Wait until tech becomes advanced enough that traveling to Luna is like taking an air plane from Toronto to New York.

That treaty will be thrown away in a heart beat.

Of course, I won't be alive to see it. Oh well. What am I gonna do.


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## silentbogo (Feb 3, 2017)

alucasa said:


> Wait until tech becomes advanced enough that traveling to Luna is like taking an air plane from Toronto to New York.
> 
> That treaty will be thrown away in a heart beat.
> 
> Of course, I won't be alive to see it. Oh well. What am I gonna do.


You never know, maybe by the time you are 80-something there will be a viable stem cell treatment, which will prolong your life until you are 150, the earth becomes an overpopulated mess, US elects a first transspecial president (probably a manbearpig), and disco makes a big comeback.


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## Ferrum Master (Feb 3, 2017)

I know... it will be like in a Gundam plot


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## dorsetknob (Feb 3, 2017)

GreiverBlade said:


> one wondering ... if they mine it, it will diminish the mass of it ... thus it will affect the effect that the moon has on earth, right?
> 
> that can't be good nonetheless ...


Earth being bigger than the moon collects more space dust making it heavier
extra weight makes its orbit re the moon sink (further away )



silentbogo said:


> US elects a first transspecial president


2016>> lad >>> 2016

Most People will not Object to Lunar Mining if the entire output of rescorce's are used to build an international LUNA Outpost
( never gonna happen)


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## Sasqui (Feb 3, 2017)

silentbogo said:


> You never know, maybe by the time you are 80-something there will be a viable stem cell treatment, which will prolong your life until you are 150, the earth becomes an overpopulated mess, US elects a first transspecial president (probably a manbearpig), and disco makes a big comeback.



Unless, of course, the Vogons need to make way for an interstellar highway and determine that the earth / moon is in the way.  There won't be any planning board meetings on earth.

I think they should allow mining, but limit it to the face of the moon away from the earth.  Outta sight, outta mind!  Of course, this will stir up a big debate about lunar warming and Al Gore will make millions on the new documentary "A convenient truth"


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## natr0n (Feb 3, 2017)




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## silentbogo (Feb 3, 2017)

@natr0n 
No-o-o-o-o... I'd rather have a disco comeback, than Season 11 about the Nazi moon base conspiracy...


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## Steevo (Feb 3, 2017)

What a retarded idea. We have a planet made of the same stuff under our feet, and are willing to risk potentially destabilizing the moon and thus its effects on earth like tides that power a shit ton of our weather and help control oxygen and CO2 levels, as we know little about its structure in order to make a buck?

At the end of times there will be some asshole who says "For a short while we were able to create a glorious amount of wealth for our shareholders before we destroyed it all".

If anything we need to focus on creation of electric energy from stable and green sources like nuclear, geothermal and other sources. The abundance of power is what makes life easy and can allow us to achieve other great things, like using magnetic stabilized rail guns to get things into orbit instead of chemical rockets. Creation of safe short range wireless energy systems above or in roads for electric cars and trucks, smaller batteries, refrigeration for better food transport and storage. Nuclear transport ships instead of the fuel oil burners that pollute.


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## Jetster (Feb 3, 2017)

Someone has been playing too much Eve


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## FordGT90Concept (Feb 3, 2017)

I thought there was really nothing of value on nor in Luna.  Additionally, it has to be damn valuable to make it worth the cost of getting it back to Earth.  It just seems like an all around stupid proposition to me, especially for for-profit businesses.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 3, 2017)

I am ok with regulated mining but only stuff that makes viable and reasonable sense ,h3 mining and such ,I mean only stuff we can't get here.
I like eco and green and all that but solar panels and turbines are not made out of leafs so I'm all for it conditionally.


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Feb 3, 2017)

i think that minerals mined on the moon will predominantly stay on the moon.

 Mine, process, 3 d print and build a moonbase --  all without even having to send any one there........


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## MrGenius (Feb 3, 2017)

"_Deep space mining is a lucrative business Ms. Daniels._"









 (see 1:35)


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## FordGT90Concept (Feb 4, 2017)

I think economics will solve space mining so long as governments don't incentivize nor subsidies it.  The profit margins will dictate what can and can't be mined.



CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> i think that minerals mined on the moon will predominantly stay on the moon.
> 
> Mine, process, 3 d print and build a moonbase --  all without even having to send any one there........


I don't really have a problem with that.  I still doubt enough resources are in/on the moon to even build a moon base.


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## rtwjunkie (Feb 4, 2017)

Oxygen is the most common element, followed by silicon and iron.

The release of oxygen from the crust could be the most useful for a moon base, or for providing oxygen supplies for interplanetary ships.


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## FYFI13 (Feb 4, 2017)

GreiverBlade said:


> one wondering ... if they mine it, it will diminish the mass of it ... thus it will affect the effect that the moon has on earth, right?
> 
> that can't be good nonetheless ...


Do you even realize mass of the moon and amount of resources we would mine from it? It's like filling up your swimming pool from the ocean.


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## Palladium (Feb 4, 2017)

FordGT90Concept said:


> I think economics will solve space mining so long as governments don't incentivize nor subsidies it.  The profit margins will dictate what can and can't be mined.
> 
> 
> I don't really have a problem with that.  I still doubt enough resources are in/on the moon to even build a moon base.



I think you vastly overestimate the competence of corporate capitalism.


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## R-T-B (Feb 4, 2017)

Palladium said:


> I think you vastly overestimate the competence of corporate capitalism.



I think everyone here massively overestimates the value of the moon, at least economically speaking.


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Feb 4, 2017)

Titanium on the moon is primarily found in the mineral ilmenite, a compound that contains iron, titanium and oxygen. If humans one day mine on the moon, they could break down ilmenite to separate these elements.

Furthermore, Apollo data indicated that titanium-rich minerals are more efficient at retaining solar wind particles, such as helium and hydrogen. These gases would likely be vital resources in the construction of lunar colonies and for exploration of the moon.

The highest abundance of titanium in similar rocks on Earth hovers around 1 percent or less,  titanium on the moon range from about 1 percent to a little more than 10 percent.






Galilleo picture  recorded through three spectral filters and combined in an exaggerated false-color scheme to explore the composition of the lunar surface as changes in mineral content produce subtle colour differences in reflected light.










If one metric ton of material was removed everyday from the Moon it would take 200 million years to deplete 1 % of its' mass.........


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## AsRock (Feb 4, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> As if humans not destroy enough already....



We destroy the moon we will only know about it for a short while. . And yes we need to learn to look after what we have before screwing up other places.

Why you think the Matrix was such a hit .


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## GreiverBlade (Feb 4, 2017)

FYFI13 said:


> Do you even realize mass of the moon and amount of resources we would mine from it? It's like filling up your swimming pool from the ocean.


do not underestimate humans ... it will happen if they let them do it ... 

and yes, i do realize the mass of the moon.



CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> Titanium on the moon is primarily found in the mineral ilmenite, a compound that contains iron, titanium and oxygen. If humans one day mine on the moon, they could break down ilmenite to separate these elements.
> 
> Furthermore, Apollo data indicated that titanium-rich minerals are more efficient at retaining solar wind particles, such as helium and hydrogen. These gases would likely be vital resources in the construction of lunar colonies and for exploration of the moon.
> 
> ...


well lucky for us then ... in 200mio yrs human will be long extinguished ... (or somewhere else in the galaxy/universe) soooo no need to care of the consequences then 



rtwjunkie said:


> The moon has less of an effect as time goes on anyway.  It is moving steadily away from the Earth, although at such a slow, almost imperceptible rate that it will be a billion years or more before the moon is finally free of our gravity and the Earth becomes nearly uninhabitable because of the loss of the moon.
> 
> If anything, mining the moon and bringing mass to Earth, will actually slow the rate at which the moon pulls away from us, due to less mass there and more mass here.
> 
> @Knoxx29, it's not about going there. It's about mining.


mmhhh not wrong ... as usual you are the most correct user on that forum ... instead of bashing, you give a valid point (which i also thought about ... but since human are rather "destroyer" than "savior" i shadowed the actual fact that the moon is slowly going away from earth) well humans will go extinct in way less than billions year from today ... they are actually working on it ...


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## dorsetknob (Feb 4, 2017)

Mining on the Moon should be permitted only as a preliminary to excavating and Building a INTERNATIONAL subterranean Base
where Man (and woman) will be a little Safer from Radiation and impact Damage.
There will still be a need for Some surface installation's But Most of it should be Subsurface


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Feb 4, 2017)

I like cheese


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## dorsetknob (Feb 4, 2017)

wot about


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## R-T-B (Feb 4, 2017)

Wait the moon is made of cheese?

Fuck my vote, mine it all!


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Feb 4, 2017)




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## Totally (Feb 4, 2017)

I have the feeling that it won't be riiggggghhhhht up to the point, someone screws up and a chunk of the moon ends up falling on us. Afterwards the Mining Co. CEO buys some airtime on TV to say with questionable sincerity "We're Sorry."


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## hat (Feb 5, 2017)

It seems a little early to be talking about mining the moon...


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## MrGenius (Feb 5, 2017)

hat said:


> It seems a little early to be talking about mining the moon...


You must have skipped over the link in post #1. Let me quote from it for you...


> Moon Express, the first private company in history to be granted permission to travel beyond the Earth's orbit, says it will mine the moon for riches.
> 
> The Silicon Valley startup was given permission by the United States government to plan a lunar mission last year and has since raised investment to the tune of $45m (£35.55m).
> 
> ...


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## hat (Feb 5, 2017)

Granted I didn't read the entire story... but it just doesn't seem feasible to me to actually mine the moon. Maybe I'm wrong...


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## rtwjunkie (Feb 5, 2017)

hat said:


> Granted I didn't read the entire story... but it just doesn't seem feasible to me to actually mine the moon. Maybe I'm wrong...



LOL, no you're right, it's not feasible right now. A company says they want to mine the moon and speculation explodes. It's all in good fun.


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Feb 5, 2017)

Moon Express co-founder and chairman, Naveen Jain. “In the immediate future, we envision bringing precious resources, metals, and Moon rocks back to Earth. “


Press release containing "permission"
http://www.moonexpress.com/files/moon-express-press-kit.pdf


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Apr 29, 2017)

NASA has now chosen the instrument that could peer through the veil, in hopes to improve our understanding of what resources may be trapped in the shadows.









The ‘ShadowCam’ developed by researchers at Arizona State University and Malin Space Science Systems will fly aboard the Korea Pathfinder Lunar Orbiter (KPLO). 
The ShadowCam instrument uses an optical camera based on the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter Narrow Angle Camera.

But, it is 800 times more sensitive. This will allow the ShadowCam to map reflectance within the shadowed regions to search for evidence of frost or ice deposits, and obtain high-resolution, high signal-to-noise imaging of these areas.

It will observe these regions on a monthly basis to check for seasonal changes and measure the terrain inside craters.

This will be part of the Korea Aerospace Research Institute’s first lunar exploration mission. KARI provided NASA with roughly 33 pounds of payload mass aboard its orbiter, which will launch in December 2018.

The orbiter will also carry four KARI-developed instruments.

https://phys.org/news/2017-04-nasa-asu-shadowcam-korea-pathfinder.html


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## cornemuse (Apr 30, 2017)

What? Worried about ugly scars from strip mining there??

The US has left several abandoned vehicles there.

Several countries have left or crashed various items there.

Gettin' to be a dump 'up' there, , ,

Or what? Somalia does not have the capability of moon mining, so _no one_ can. (like ocean floor mining here)

No one owns it, cant be taxed, cant have that!!

(Somalia picked at random!!)


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## dorsetknob (Apr 30, 2017)

cornemuse said:


> The US has left several abandoned vehicles there.


Its a multi national scrapyard
Stuff from
USA
USSR (Remember them)
China
India


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## HTC (Apr 30, 2017)

dorsetknob said:


> Its a multi national scrapyard
> Stuff from
> USA
> USSR (Remember them)
> ...



How about we try and make them pay for "parking space"?


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Apr 30, 2017)

dorsetknob said:


> Its a multi national scrapyard



They are a resource in themselves.

Its a shame Apollo couldnt have taken any 3 d printers up there and left them behind............think of all the buildings they could have spewed out by now.


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## rtwjunkie (Apr 30, 2017)

People


CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> They are a resource in themselves.
> 
> Its a shame Apollo couldnt have taken any 3 d printers up there and left them behind............think of all the buildings they could have spewed out by now.


That is funny, considering their computers in the capsule were basically electrically charged abacus' strung together!


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Apr 30, 2017)




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## rtwjunkie (Apr 30, 2017)

That was very cool!


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## 64K (Apr 30, 2017)

If they had a 3D printer to send to the moon it couldn't make much without 3D printer material to feed the printer so it would cost the same to just send a completed version of what they wanted there in the first place.


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Apr 30, 2017)




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## cdawall (Apr 30, 2017)

MOON PEOPLE HAVE RIGHTS TOO! that is all, nah really though I don't care if it doesn't make the earth worse somehow.


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Apr 30, 2017)

a 3 d printed excavator of course.

https://3dprint.com/167232/3d-printed-excavator-unveiled/


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## cornemuse (May 1, 2017)

HTC said:


> How about we try and make them pay for "parking space"?



Eventually, get Elon Musk to tow them & send 'em a bill, , , ,


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## R-T-B (May 1, 2017)

I'm sorry, but it's a frickin' entire orbital body with what, maybe 20 odd manmade things on it?

I don't really see it as too crowded.


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## Vayra86 (May 1, 2017)

Inb4 first Moon Immigration policy


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## dorsetknob (May 1, 2017)

More Value and use to mine low earth orbit objects
Probably more Economic 
all that refined gold and platinum in those spare defunct parts
and Some one might buy those Secret hardware bits we are not supposed to know about !!!!!!


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (May 4, 2017)

Bricks are printed from moondust using the sun's heat


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