# M.2 for legacy mainboard



## caliber (Jul 28, 2020)

hello everyone.
I want to know if the M2 class SSD require a specific parameter on the BIOS ??
this is the mainboard I would like to use a M2 in. https://www.asus.com/latin/Motherboards/M5A78LM_LX_V2/
I don't care if it's SATA or NVMe I just want to use a generic PCIe adapter and install it.
can I install and boot Windows this way or does it need special drivers ???

if you read the specs of this PCIe adapter it seems to support a few mainboards only








						HYPER M.2 X4 MINI CARD   | Motherboard Accessories | ASUS Global
					






					www.asus.com
				



when I search info on google, Amazon...etc about those generic PCIe it's never mentioned the mainboards it's compatible with. why ?


----------



## Hardcore Games (Jul 28, 2020)

You are better off building a new rig with AM4 which all support NVMe M.2 SSD with 4x PCIe lanes so the C: drive can be over 2GB/s in bandwidth.

PCIe cards are not going to help as they do not have a UEFI boot room to use them for a system disk.


----------



## agent_x007 (Jul 28, 2020)

You don't need a driver. 
You need UEFI BIOS to boot NVMe drives on legacy boards (ie. for OS use).
In case of your board, best option is to use Clover or DUET software installed on USB Pendrive or HDD partion, that are 3-rd party UEFI booting environmets.
Newer boards can be moded to support NVMe boot from UEFI BIOS, but your platform is too old for that.


----------



## aQi (Jul 28, 2020)

I wonder why you want to do this anyway ?


----------



## caliber (Jul 28, 2020)

No I won't be buying more mainboards I have 4 and mostly use 1 ....99% of the time.
can I then use a M2 SATA with a PCI card adapter ? something similar to the Kingston UV500








						SSDs - Solid State Drives as a hard drive replacement for desktop PCs, laptops and servers - Kingston Technology
					

SSDs can extend the lifecycle and dramatically improve the performance of a PC with higher speeds, greater durability and legendary Kingston reliability.




					www.kingston.com
				






Aqeel Shahzad said:


> I wonder why you want to do this anyway ?



I want to keep all SATA ports for HDD's and use the PCIex 2 or 16 for a M2.
if it doesn't boot Windows without UEFI I'm done.


----------



## Hugis (Jul 28, 2020)

Compatible Model
Support ASUS Z170/H170/X99/Z97/H97/B85 series motherboard models


----------



## Mussels (Jul 28, 2020)

caliber said:


> No I won't be buying more mainboards I have 4 and mostly use 1 ....99% of the time.
> can I then use a M2 SATA with a PCI card adapter ? something similar to the Kingston UV500
> 
> 
> ...



Why not just get a PCI-E SATA card at that rate, and a SATA SSD if your issue is a lack of ports?


----------



## caliber (Jul 28, 2020)

Mussels said:


> Why not just get a PCI-E SATA card at that rate, and a SATA SSD if your issue is a lack of ports?



isn't this the same as buying a M2 SATA SSD + PCI-E card ?


----------



## Caring1 (Jul 28, 2020)

It's my understanding M2 Sata will boot, but NVMe wont.
But I could be wrong.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 28, 2020)

caliber said:


> isn't this the same as buying a M2 SATA SSD + PCI-E card ?



Yes it is, which is why i suggested it. Wasting an M.2 slot for SATA is a bad idea imo, far better to use M.2 for NVME


----------



## caliber (Jul 28, 2020)

Mussels said:


> Yes it is, which is why i suggested it. Wasting an M.2 slot for SATA is a bad idea imo, far better to use M.2 for NVME



is it true that you lose a SATA port if you use a M2 SATA via PCI-e ?
I cannot use NVMe without UEFI (boot or storage) so I can't consider it a waste.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 28, 2020)

caliber said:


> is it true that you lose a SATA port if you use a M2 SATA via PCI-e ?
> I cannot use NVMe without UEFI (boot or storage) so I can't consider it a waste.



some motherboards are wired in such ways that using NVME drives disables a sata port. This is a specific limitation of some motherboards, definitely not all of them.

It's a waste because it costs you more money for less, you could just use a SATA SSD


----------



## Flaky (Jul 28, 2020)

caliber said:


> can I then use a M2 SATA with a PCI card adapter ?


Only if you use an adapter that supports M.2 SATA SSDs. 
Single M.2 PCIe adapters are for M.2 PCIe drives only. 
Many dual M.2 adapter cards are for one M.2 PCIe, and one M.2 SATA drive.
To have M.2 SATA SSD working in such card, you still have to connect the card to the motherboard via a SATA cable.


----------



## caliber (Jul 28, 2020)

Mussels said:


> It's a waste because it costs you more money for less, you could just use a SATA SSD



Yes but your previous recommendation is far more expensive if I go for a good PCI-E SATA card and not sure how the BIOS would recognize the extra SATA ports.
whereas a M2 SATA can be mounted upon any inexpensive PCI adapter



Flaky said:


> To have M.2 SATA SSD working in such card, you still have to connect the card to the motherboard via a SATA cable.



wait... what ? I am getting hyper confused now.


----------



## Flaky (Jul 28, 2020)

That's how it works. Those cheap adapter cards are mostly dumb PCBs. There are no controllers on them. 
M.2 PCIe SSDs work in them, because all these cards do is connect existing PCIe bus present in x4/x8/x16 slot to the M.2.
SATA is a completely different interface, and you either would need to pay more to have a controller on such card (example), or use already mentioned dual M.2 card (example).
If you only want to have an M.2 SATA drive and nothing else, you might as well get an adapter similar to this one.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 28, 2020)

caliber said:


> Yes but your previous recommendation is far more expensive if I go for a good PCI-E SATA card and not sure how the BIOS would recognize the extra SATA ports.
> whereas a M2 SATA can be mounted upon any inexpensive PCI adapter
> 
> 
> ...


i think you have that backwards, PCI-E sata cards are dirt cheap

As for flakys post, he's correct - most of those adaptors have one slot for M.2 NVME wired to the PCI-E slot, and a SATA cable coming off them that connects to the mobo for use with an M.2 sata drive.
M.2 is merely the physical size of the drive, if you're using sata stick with 2.5" drives


----------



## caliber (Jul 28, 2020)

Flaky said:


> That's how it works. Those cheap adapter cards are mostly dumb PCBs. There are no controllers on them.



what is the real advantage of getting a M2 SATA pluged into the PCI slot if I have to use a standard SATA lead apart ?


----------



## Assimilator (Jul 28, 2020)

There's no point in going M.2 anything with that shitty ancient board. Just grab yourself one of these: https://www.amazon.com/Ziyituod-Controller-Expansion-Profile-Non-Raid/dp/B07SZDK6CZ/ - there are also 6- and 8-port versions.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 28, 2020)

caliber said:


> what is the real advantage of getting a M2 SATA pluged into the PCI slot if I have to use a standard SATA lead apart ?



there isnt one, you only do it if you're out of sata  ports.

Just like getting a sata m.2 in an adaptor card, there is zero point over directly connecting a 2.5" sata SSD to the motherboard.


----------



## agent_x007 (Jul 28, 2020)

There are three types of M.2 out there :
1) NVMe PCIe
2) AHCI PCIe
3) AHCI SATA

First one requires NVMe module in BIOS to boot (unless such module is inside OpROM on drive itself - like in Samsung 950 Pro case). Side note : There are x2 lanes and x4 (default) versions of NVMe drives.
Second one requires PCIe AHCI module in BIOS to be present [like old RevoDrive] for booting (so it may work in this case, but still requires GPT/UEFI BIOS to work as booting drive for Windows, otherwise Windows may not boot from it). Also in this case, there are x2 lane and x4 lane versions
AHCI SATA is a drive that connects to M.2 port, but is only powered by it.
It does require a seperate SATA cable to be connected to motherboard to work.
It *WILL NOT* work in NVMe/PCI-e only M.2 port.

Like I mentioned earlier, both PCI-e and NVMe drives are bootable on legacy platforms, if you use Clover or DUET software.

PS. I would use M.2 SATA to save space (free 2,5" bay).


----------



## juiseman (Jul 28, 2020)

Sorry to say, but I don't think you will get much better speeds with an NMVE (if you get it to work) It will be bottle necked by the CPU, MEM speed & possibly the chipset.
At the time of this board, SSD's were all SATA 6.0... You could use it for a data drive maybe?


----------



## bonehead123 (Jul 28, 2020)

WORD:

*N > O >*

Which part of this is so hard to understand, the "*N*" part or the "*O*" part ? ......

I understand the desire to stay with your current rig and max it out, however, there comes a time when you are "throwing good money after bad", ie... the point of diminishing returns....

You sir (Caliber) have reached both of these milestones....please just get over it & move on to a more recent platform that will allow you to take full advantage of the nvme drive's speeds and other benefits and most of all... be happier in the end !


----------



## caliber (Jul 28, 2020)

Mussels said:


> AHCI SATA is a drive that connects to M.2 port, but is only powered by it.
> It does require a seperate SATA cable to be connected to motherboard to work.
> It *WILL NOT* work in NVMe/PCI-e only M.2 port.



thanks for clearing this up. it's just all I wanted to know 
now I understand why I haven't found any PCIe adapter without the SATA port.
do you know if the current Samsung PRO lineup comes with that specific feature for NVMe drives ?


----------



## newtekie1 (Jul 29, 2020)

caliber said:


> I want to keep all SATA ports for HDD's and use the PCIex 2 or 16 for a M2.
> if it doesn't boot Windows without UEFI I'm done.



If you just want extra SATA ports, just buy a SATA AIB to get more ports and just us a SATA SSD.









						SYBA SY-PEX40039 2 Port SATA III PCI-e 2.0 x1 Card - Newegg.com
					

Buy SYBA SY-PEX40039 2 Port SATA III PCI-e 2.0 x1 Card with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com


----------



## agent_x007 (Jul 29, 2020)

No. Only 950 Pro line had that feature build-in.


----------



## caliber (Jul 29, 2020)

here you are  3 similar adapters that look like quite different.  
the first one requires external power supply just like the second one without the bottom connector pins
the third one seems to get the power from the mainboard.... am I missing something  
this DDR2,3,4 adapter is more suitable to me because it's away from the graphic card overheating.
I would like to guess that a normal BIOS will not detect it as an incompatible device.






						DDR3 DDR4 DDR2 to M2 SSD Adapter M.2 NGFF B Key Riser Card SATA 15Pin Power + SATA 7Pin Data Port Support 2242 2260 2280 M.2 SSD|Add On Cards|   - AliExpress
					

Cheap Add On Cards, Buy Quality Computer & Office Directly from China Suppliers:DDR3 DDR4 DDR2 to M2 SSD Adapter M.2 NGFF B Key Riser Card SATA 15Pin Power + SATA 7Pin Data Port Support 2242 2260 2280 M.2 SSD Enjoy ✓Free Shipping Worldwide! ✓Limited Time Sale ✓Easy Return.




					www.aliexpress.com
				








						Sata A M2 Ssd Ddr3 Ranura De Memoria Sistema Fijo Adaptador | MercadoLibre
					

Envíos Gratis en el día ✓ Compre Sata A M2 Ssd Ddr3 Ranura De Memoria Sistema Fijo Adaptador en cuotas sin interés! Conozca nuestras increíbles ofertas y promociones en millones de productos.




					articulo.mercadolibre.com.mx
				











						Delock Adapter DDR3 Dual SATA 6Gbs RAID Module - 2 x M.2 NGFF
					

Delock Adapter DDR3 Dual SATA 6Gbs RAID Module - 2 x M.2 NGFF




					www.dcp.lv


----------



## Mussels (Jul 29, 2020)

Thats just sticking a SATA SSD in an unused memory slot, still needs a SATA cable running to your mobo, and sata power from the PSU

I'm not sure what you're looking for here... NVME is the only reason to bother with m.2, otherwise just stick with a 2.5" drive


----------



## caliber (Jul 29, 2020)

Mussels said:


> Thats just sticking a SATA SSD in an unused memory slot, still needs a SATA cable running to your mobo, and sata power from the PSU



my question is why doesn't the red adapter module need external power supply ?


----------



## agent_x007 (Jul 29, 2020)

Because what RAM slots provides is enough (apparently).
I would like to have a seperate SATA power on china made M.2 to RAM slot adapter.
Also, there is a chance it's for DDR3 only, or DDR4 only.


----------



## caliber (Jul 29, 2020)

agent_x007 said:


> I would like to have a seperate SATA power on china made M.2 to RAM slot adapter.



Delecok seems to be based in Germany https://www.delock.com/index.html


----------



## aQi (Jul 29, 2020)

caliber said:


> No I won't be buying more mainboards I have 4 and mostly use 1 ....99% of the time.
> can I then use a M2 SATA with a PCI card adapter ? something similar to the Kingston UV500
> 
> 
> ...



There are some nvme drives that natively support older systems because they have pre installed ACHI driver in them. Such as Samsung and Plextor drivers (the old ones)
People use them with most of their x58 based systems.
The commonly used is Samsung’s 950 pro.

Other work around is Clover or DEUT (Software based) as mentioned by @agent_x007


----------



## caliber (Jul 29, 2020)

Aqeel Shahzad said:


> There are some nvme drives that natively support older systems because they have pre installed ACHI driver in them.



are you sure the M2 AHCI drives don't require EFI ?

1. *NVMe* ones (usually need an NVMe EFI BIOS module to be bootable),
2. *AHCI* ones (need a specific AHCI EFI BIOS module to be bootable) and
3. *SATA* ones (are connected to the chipset's SATA Controller, don't need an additional BIOS module).


----------



## Flaky (Jul 29, 2020)

Aqeel Shahzad said:


> There are some nvme drives that natively support older systems because they have pre installed ACHI driver in them. Such as Samsung and Plextor drivers (the old ones)
> People use them with most of their x58 based systems.
> The commonly used is Samsung’s 950 pro.


950 pro is a pure NVMe drive. There isn't anything related to AHCI on it. People mistake being bootable (thanks to option rom) with AHCI.
All drives that had option rom aren't sold anymore. 

OP, is this really worth the hassle? Why not just have 5HDDs and one conventional SATA SSD?


----------



## aQi (Jul 29, 2020)

caliber said:


> are you sure the M2 AHCI drives don't require EFI ?
> 
> 1. *NVMe* ones (usually need an NVMe EFI BIOS module to be bootable),
> 2. *AHCI* ones (need a specific AHCI EFI BIOS module to be bootable) and
> 3. *SATA* ones (are connected to the chipset's SATA Controller, don't need an additional BIOS module).



My bad i wrote AHCI. Actually those old drives had legacy option rom driver that enabled them to be used on older systems.
Anyways if you still want to have a hassle free booting. You can search for these nvme drives
Plextor M8PEY
Kingston HyperX Predator
Samsung 950 Pro
I can assure of Samsung 950 pro but people did use the other two saying it does the same as it has option rom.



Flaky said:


> 950 pro is a pure NVMe drive. There isn't anything related to AHCI on it. People mistake being bootable (thanks to option rom) with AHCI.
> All drives that had option rom aren't sold anymore.
> 
> OP, is this really worth the hassle? Why not just have 5HDDs and one conventional SATA SSD?



I was on another forum and was not paying attention. Yes thats the option rom driver being injected in those drives that worked like a charm yet they stopped doing that so that people may buy newer motherboards i guess 

and the OP wants to keep all sata ports restricted to SATA drives(storage) and install a separate nvme for booting.


----------



## Flaky (Jul 29, 2020)

Yeah, but at the same time OP still links to M.2 SATA adapters that would require sacrificing one SATA port for adapted M.2 SSD.
That would mean that he's fine with sparing one SATA for SSD.
The thing I don't get is why still insist on getting a SATA in M.2 form factor...


----------



## aQi (Jul 29, 2020)

Flaky said:


> Yeah, but at the same time OP still links to M.2 SATA adapters that would require sacrificing one SATA port for adapted M.2 SSD.
> That would mean that he's fine with sparing one SATA for SSD.
> The thing I don't get is why still insist on getting a SATA in M.2 form factor...



lol now i am confused. I thought we were going to buy those pci express sata cards and getting the job done however NMVE speeds are impressive and booting is like a smartphone so that SATA option is a no go. Just speculating as the OP is showing more interest towards NVME


----------



## Assimilator (Jul 29, 2020)

@caliber please stop wasting your time and others'.

Your ancient motherboard DOES NOT SUPPORT EFI so there is NO POSSIBILITY of using an NVMe drive natively.

Your ancient motherboard only has a single PCIe x16 slot, which seems to be occupied by a graphics card, so you have NOWHERE to plug in a PCIe-to-NVMe adapter card (which are PCIe x4).

Thus you currently have NO POSSIBILITY of using an NVMe drive.

You ONLY option for more storage is a SATA PCIe x1 expansion card like the one I previously posted. Your board has 2 PCIe x1 slots so you can position such a card above or below the GPU.

If that is not possible because you have an equally ancient GPU that overheats, you need to upgrade to a newer motherboard with better expansion capabilities.

Fin.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 29, 2020)

Assimilator, no need to be rude about his hardware. That's uncalled for.


----------



## juiseman (Jul 29, 2020)

[Guide] NVMe-boot for systems with legacy BIOS and UEFI board (DUET-REFIND)
					

UEFI DUET Installer - REFIND boot manager   PREVIEW      		  	    ATTENTION!   By using these files YOU WILL BE SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY TYPE OF DAMAGE !!!   •  Current download link for DUET (EDK2015) with REFIND included          PROPRIETARY FILE SYSTEM       In case the OS uses some...




					www.win-raid.com


----------



## ntdouglas (Jul 29, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> @caliber please stop wasting your time and others'.
> 
> Your shitty ancient motherboard DOES NOT SUPPORT EFI so there is NO POSSIBILITY of using an NVMe drive natively.
> 
> ...



Nice job of sugarcoating it Assimilator lol.


----------



## juiseman (Jul 29, 2020)

I have read about this a few times; never tried it. I think it will still be bottle necked by other things man..


----------



## ntdouglas (Jul 29, 2020)

Ahahaha too funny. Whats up Mussels haven't talked to you in about 10 years or so.


----------



## Assimilator (Jul 29, 2020)

ntdouglas said:


> Nice job of sugarcoating it Assimilator lol.



I'm just really tired of people with ancient hardware posting threads asking for help getting their setup to work with modern hardware, and then ignoring every suggestion given to them in favour of chasing unicorns. If you don't want to take any advice, why did you bloody well ask in the first place?


----------



## ntdouglas (Jul 29, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> I'm just really tired of people with ancient hardware posting threads asking for help getting their setup to work with modern hardware, and then ignoring every suggestion given to them in favour of chasing unicorns. If you don't want to take any advice, why did you bloody well ask in the first place?



Just noobs (or coneheads)posting thats all. But thats what forums are for. Its obviously keeping you entertained.


----------



## kapone32 (Jul 29, 2020)

I used an M2 in an adapter card on a Fm2 board. As that was a PCIe 2.0 slot the max sequential read was 1.5 Gb/s in benchmarks. Windows 10 has native support for NVME so that should make it pretty painless. I don't know about boot but definitely check the MB manual for PCIe boot support.



Aqeel Shahzad said:


> lol now i am confused. I thought we were going to buy those pci express sata cards and getting the job done however NMVE speeds are impressive and booting is like a smartphone so that SATA option is a no go. Just speculating as the OP is showing more interest towards NVME


There is almost no humanly perceptible difference between an SSD and NVME when it comes to boot so that makes no sense.


----------



## aQi (Jul 29, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> I'm just really tired of people with ancient hardware posting threads asking for help getting their setup to work with modern hardware, and then ignoring every suggestion given to them in favour of chasing unicorns. If you don't want to take any advice, why did you bloody well ask in the first place?



Event


kapone32 said:


> I used an M2 in an adapter card on a Fm2 board. As that was a PCIe 2.0 slot the max sequential read was 1.5 Gb/s in benchmarks. Windows 10 has native support for NVME so that should make it pretty painless. I don't know about boot but definitely check the MB manual for PCIe boot support.
> 
> 
> There is almost no humanly perceptible difference between an SSD and NVME when it comes to boot so that makes no sense.



Between an SSD and NVME ? You mean Sata and NVME ?

ofcorse having a SATA interface SSD is the best option for all times. NVME relatively gets hot too but i am referring to an iphone with NVME where the user enjoys prompt application response something i have witnessed on any NVME when experiencing windows yet surprisingly i have witnessed SATA SSD doing the same which have sustainable R/W with speeds between 550mb to 600mb.

The matter is of consistent reads and writes.


----------



## kapone32 (Jul 29, 2020)

Aqeel Shahzad said:


> Event
> 
> 
> Between an SSD and NVME ? You mean Sata and NVME ?


Yes but NVME drives do not work on SATA. SSD drives do fit in M2 and SATA ports.



Aqeel Shahzad said:


> Event
> 
> 
> Between an SSD and NVME ? You mean Sata and NVME ?
> ...


In a lot of cases a 1 TB SSD will give you better sustained read and write performance than NVME in real world usage.


----------



## agent_x007 (Jul 29, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> I'm just really tired of people with ancient hardware posting threads asking for help getting their setup to work with modern hardware, and then ignoring every suggestion given to them in favour of chasing unicorns.


I like unicorns 







CPUz valid : https://valid.x86.fr/2g58sg


----------



## aQi (Jul 29, 2020)

agent_x007 said:


> I like unicorns
> View attachment 163825
> View attachment 163826
> CPUz valid : https://valid.x86.fr/2g58sg



Ha ha ha nailed it. With your uni corn stick


----------



## Tomgang (Jul 29, 2020)

950 PRO totally confirmed to work on X58. But it seems asus and gigabyte is the ones to go for nvme fun. While EVGA boards don't seem to play nicely with 950 PRO.

I dont know if op already made a choice, but here is a screen shot of my system with 950 PRO as boot drive and my old thread I made here. There might be some valid info to OP. 














						M.2 SSD on old X58 system with M.2 PCI adaptor. Can it work?
					

I might have gotten a great idea, but im not sure if it will work out.  The idea is to get a SAMSUNG 960 EVO M.2 250GB SSD and a Aqua Computer kryo PCIe 3.0 x4 adapter for M.2 NGFF PCIe SSD.  But here comes the questions.  1. This pci adaptor is a stated for PCI express 3 X4 , but i only have...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jul 29, 2020)

I don't understand this thread.

That motherboard and BIOS only supports booting from one of the six on-board SATA ports. Yes, other non-bootable storage can be added via a card but the OS and bootloader will not work with that add-in storage adapter. If you get lucky with Clover and your BIOS it may work but the difference in BIOSes betwen high-end X58 boards and low-budget AMD 760G chip is _huge_.

If all six of the SATA ports are in use and you want to add a new bootable SATA drive, you'll need to unplug one of the existing drives and buy a SATA card in order to plug it back in.

There is no point looking at any variety of M.2 with this board, it's so cheap and old it doesn't even have USB 3.0


----------

