# New Build - Cheap Entry-Level Gaming/Productivity PC



## dylricho (Mar 4, 2014)

Hi there guys,

I'm going to be building a cheap, entry-level computer that will be used primarily for productivity (web development, graphic design, office, etc.) and I'll also want to play GTA IV + the expansion packs, and play + record Minecraft at 1080p on full detail and far render distance. As such, the occasional video editing will be necessary, but I don't want the machine based around this - just as long as it is capable of doing it, is all that matters.

Before I get to the configuration, I would like to know since I'm in the UK, if I purchase from Amazon US, am I paying the US price in GBP, or will it be converted to a different GBP price? For example, a $250 processor - will it cost me $250 in GBP, or be converted to something around the same price point for the UK market, like £230?

I'm trying to stay at the £400 budget area. So, without further ado; the configuration:

*Motherboard*

ASUS A88XM-A
Socket FM2

*Processor*

AMD A10-5800K APU
4 x 3.80 GHz
Turbo Core up to 4.20 GHz
Integrated graphics [see GPU]
100 W TDP

*RAM*

G.SKILL Sniper Series
2 x 4 GB DDR3-1866/PC3-14900

*Storage*

WD Black
1 TB
7200 rpm
64 MB cache

*GPU*

Integrated AMD Radeon HD 7660D
800 MHz
384 shaders, 24 TMUs, 8 ROPs, 6 compute units
DirectX 11.0, OpenGL 4.3, OpenCL 1.2, Shader Model 5.0

*ODD*

LG GH24NS95B Black
48x CD-ROM
16x DVD-ROM

*Case*

Fractal Design Define R4
Black Pearl

*PSU*

EVGA 500B
500 W
80+ bronze certified

Thank you!


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## micropage7 (Mar 4, 2014)

power supply?


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## dylricho (Mar 4, 2014)

micropage7 said:


> power supply?



Sorry, I accidentally slipped with my mouse and posted before I was done. I've included everything, and changed the RAM as I'm sure the APU can't handle anything above DDR3-1866.

Thank you!


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## RCoon (Mar 4, 2014)

dylricho said:


> Sorry, I accidentally slipped with my mouse and posted before I was done. I've included everything, and changed the RAM as I'm sure the APU can't handle anything above DDR3-1866.
> 
> Thank you!


 
Why not A10 7850K? and the APU can handle most RAM above 1866, it can handle around 2666 IIRC

<<< from the UK, so feel free to ask for UK etailer advice.
PM me if you have any qualms


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## micropage7 (Mar 4, 2014)

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-A10-Series A10-5800K.html
yep
Supported memory: DDR3-1866


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## dylricho (Mar 4, 2014)

RCoon said:


> Why not A10 7850K? and the APU can handle most RAM above 1866, it can handle around 2666 IIRC
> 
> <<< from the UK, so feel free to ask for UK etailer advice.
> PM me if you have and qualms



If the APU and the ASUS A88XM-PLUS motherboard are within my budget, I might consider it.

And thank you.


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## RCoon (Mar 4, 2014)

By the way, it's pointless basing your prices on Amazon US, the tax is different and so are the offers. Use PCPartPicker UK to enable everyone to suggest you hardware, it's relatively universal. That being said, OCUK, Scan.co.uk are good places to start of daily and weekly deals on hardware.

I can give you more detailed and in depth advice when I get home, and offer you some build specs.

@ne6togadno is master and chief at building to budgets, as is @BarbaricSoul


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## micropage7 (Mar 4, 2014)

sometimes you find the price just has close, you may consider take the higher one


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## dylricho (Mar 4, 2014)

RCoon said:


> By the way, it's pointless basing your prices on Amazon US, the tax is different and so are the offers. Use PCPartPicker UK to enable everyone to suggest you hardware, it's relatively universal. That being said, OCUK, Scan.co.uk are good places to start of daily and weekly deals on hardware.
> 
> I can give you more detailed and in depth advice when I get home, and offer you some build specs.



I see, so there would be no point in buying from the US?

- A88XM-A = $78.40
- A88XM-PLUS = $93 / £61

- A10-5800K = $110 / £85.54
- A10-7850K = $185 / £146.43

I was under the impression that the A88XM-A board didn't support the FM2+ (from Amazon listing), but according to ASUS, it does.

Also, what sort of performance advantages will I get from the 7850K w/ Radeon R7, as opposed to the 5800K w/ Radeon HD 7660D?


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## BarbaricSoul (Mar 4, 2014)

RCoon said:


> @ne6togadno is master and chief at building to budgets, as is @BarbaricSoul



That is one hell of a compliment RCoon, Thank you. The same can be said about you as well. Now to read over the OP's post in more detail and put together a suggested build.


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## BarbaricSoul (Mar 4, 2014)

dylricho, two questions-

Do you have any intentions of OC'ing?

Why would you want to buy from a US etailer when you're in the UK?


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## RCoon (Mar 4, 2014)

dylricho said:


> I see, so there would be no point in buying from the US?


 
Delivery will be either nonexistant, or will cost as much as the hardware. Plus UK Customs will charge you import tax on top of that. Buying anything new from the US in terms of computer hardware is a dangerous and expensive game when it comes to importing.



dylricho said:


> the A88XM-A board didn't support the FM2+


A88X *IS the* FM2+ socket


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## dylricho (Mar 4, 2014)

BarbaricSoul said:


> dylricho, two questions-
> 
> Do you have any intentions of OC'ing?
> 
> Why would you want to buy from a US etailer when you're in the UK?



No, I don't plan on overclocking, and I was going to purchase from the US, thinking it would be cheaper, seeing as the UK has terrible 20% VAT. I've never purchased from Amazon, which is why I wanted to ask.



RCoon said:


> Delivery will be either nonexistant, or will cost as much as the hardware. Plus UK Customs will charge you import tax on top of that. Buying anything new from the US in terms of computer hardware is a dangerous and expensive game when it comes to importing.
> 
> 
> A88X *IS the* FM2+ socket



Okay, thank you. And in that case, ASUS should edit its Amazon listing.


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## BarbaricSoul (Mar 4, 2014)

here's what I've come up with- http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/33Yjo


little bit over budget, but from what I read, the 7850k is definitely worth it- http://www.anandtech.com/show/7677/amd-kaveri-review-a8-7600-a10-7850k/16


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## RCoon (Mar 4, 2014)

BarbaricSoul said:


> here's what I've come up with- http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/33Yjo
> 
> 
> little bit over budget, but from what I read, the 7850k is definitely worth it- http://www.anandtech.com/show/7677/amd-kaveri-review-a8-7600-a10-7850k/16


 
Just noticed no DVD drive. Even though the Source 210 is the greatest budget PC Case ever, you might be able to save some money on a cheaper more basic case to fit the DVD drive into the budget. Would be nice to keep the Source 210 though.


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## dylricho (Mar 4, 2014)

BarbaricSoul said:


> here's what I've come up with- http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/33Yjo
> 
> 
> little bit over budget, but from what I read, the 7850k is definitely worth it- http://www.anandtech.com/show/7677/amd-kaveri-review-a8-7600-a10-7850k/16



Wow, that's great. I don't require Windows 7 as we have a copy of it at home. Two questions;

Is the 400-watt PSU going to be sufficient? How many watts do you think this configuration would require on full power?
Would this allow me to upgrade in the future, if I wanted a non-APU, for example?

I've watched a couple of videos on YouTube, regarding Minecraft on its highest setting, with both the 5800K and 7850K, and both seem pretty solid;

5800K - up to 90 fps without OptiFine and with Advanced OpenGL checked - 720p.
7850K - up to 70 fps without OptiFine and Advanced OpenGL unchecked - 720p.

However, the 7850K guy was recording with Fraps, and I'm aware that it affects performance of the game more than Bandicam, which is what I'll be using.


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## RCoon (Mar 4, 2014)

dylricho said:


> Wow, that's great. I don't require Windows 7 as we have a copy of it at home. Two questions;
> 
> Is the 400-watt PSU going to be sufficient? How many watts do you think this configuration would require on full power?
> Would this allow me to upgrade in the future, if I wanted a non-APU, for example?
> ...


 
No Windows 7 means everything is within budget and you can get that DVD drive with no hassle with budget. As for performance, the 7850K performance in games is actually quite amazing. it plays a lot of modern titles at respectable settings.
At full load, I don't think the system will go over 60-70% of that PSU usage, hardware is quite efficient these days. If you wanted to add a dedicated GPU to it, you might get away with a low end 240/250, but anything midrange/high end would need 450w/550w respectively.

You can use this to calculate your required PSU wattage, it over compensates to keep you within a safe margin.
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

I'm off home.


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## dylricho (Mar 4, 2014)

RCoon said:


> No Windows 7 means everything is within budget and you can get that DVD drive with no hassle with budget. As for performance, the 7850K performance in games is actually quite amazing. it plays a lot of modern titles at respectable settings.
> At full load, I don't think the system will go over 60-70% of that PSU usage, hardware is quite efficient these days. If you wanted to add a dedicated GPU to it, you might get away with a low end 240/250, but anything midrange/high end would need 450w/550w respectively.
> 
> You can use this to calculate your required PSU wattage, it over compensates to keep you within a safe margin.
> ...



That's great. I don't suspect that I'll be needing an upgrade for some time though as gaming-wise, I only plan to use the machine to play Minecraft and GTA IV. My current machine can play Minecraft decently, assuming lowest rendering distance and not recording; furthermore the game is just about to require OpenGL 2.1, which means that my GMA X3100 will be out of it, which is the perfect time to get a new computer!

In terms of Photoshop and video editing, what can I expect? I won't be doing any 3D CAD.


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## BarbaricSoul (Mar 4, 2014)

@RCoon - is a DVD drive really needed? I only use mine for watching movies these days. If the OP does want a DVD drive, they can add one to the build, or re-use one he/she already has.

@dylricho- 400 watts is plenty. That system would probably be fine on 250 watts. I would guess no more than 200 watts maximum is the most it will pull. You can upgrade it's processor to any other processor that requires the FM2+ socket, but you can't put something like a FX8350 in it as that CPU requires a AM3+ socketed motherboard.


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## dylricho (Mar 4, 2014)

What model of Radeon R7 is used in the A10-7850K? I can't seem to find it anywhere. It's just listed as "Radeon R7."

CPU-Z also reports it as 512 MB GDDR5 using 16 GB RAM, while Sandra says 2 GB DDR3. Is this correct?


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## micropage7 (Mar 4, 2014)

its from sharing memory, have you checked your bios setting


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## BarbaricSoul (Mar 4, 2014)

dylricho said:


> What model of Radeon R7 is used in the A10-7850K? I can't seem to find it anywhere. It's just listed as "Radeon R7."



taken from the 7850k review I posted earlier-



> AMD did address the concept of Dual Graphics in their press deck. In their limited testing scenario, they paired the A10-7850K (which has R7 graphics) with the R7 240 2GB GDDR3. In fact their suggestion is that any R7 based APU can be paired with any G/DDR3 based R7 GPU. Another disclaimer is that AMD recommends testing dual graphics solutions with their 13.350 driver build, which due out in February. Whereas for today's review we were sent their 13.300 beta 14 and RC2 builds (which at this time have yet to be assigned an official Catalyst version number).


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## RCoon (Mar 4, 2014)

The APU will take memory from the RAM which is why higher speed is better for the APU graphics performance. I imagine from 8GB of RAM it might set aside up to 1GB for the gpu. From reviews the R7 240/250 seems to hybrid crossfire with the APU quite well. In terms of Photoshop, everything will run quite snappy. The best thing for Photoshop is RAM as it will use as much RAM as you can give it for layers and what not.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 4, 2014)

read these right here for a reference
http://www.eteknix.com/complete-amd-kaveri-review-a10-7850k-a10-7700k-a8-7600/
http://www.eteknix.com/memory-scaling-amd-kaveri-a10-7850k-apu/


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## Devon68 (Mar 4, 2014)

> Fractal Design Define R4
> Black Pearl



Why such an expensive case?
or am I mistaken and your thinking about the NZXT Source 210 as mentioned by RCoon?
Well anyway I would go for a Source 210 Elite.

Here is the version you wanted with the A10-5800K:
http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/340I9
and here is the version others suggested with the A10-7850K:
http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/340Ne


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## BarbaricSoul (Mar 4, 2014)

a little edit to my build suggestion considering you don't need a copy of Windows- http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/340qB


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## dylricho (Mar 4, 2014)

BarbaricSoul said:


> taken from the 7850k review I posted earlier-



I was under the impression that the review was saying the A10-7850K w/ R7 + a separate R7 dedicated card.



RCoon said:


> The APU will take memory from the RAM which is why higher speed is better for the APU graphics performance. I imagine from 8GB of RAM it might set aside up to 1GB for the gpu. From reviews the R7 240/250 seems to hybrid crossfire with the APU quite well. In terms of Photoshop, everything will run quite snappy. The best thing for Photoshop is RAM as it will use as much RAM as you can give it for layers and what not.



I'm aware that since it's an integrated GPU, it'll take RAM from the system to use as VRAM, and it sounds like it's a 2 GB card when enough RAM is used. So, with 16 GB RAM, is CPU-Z reporting its dedicated VRAM? I know some cards can have shared and dedicated.

And I'm happy that Photoshop will run fluently.


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## dylricho (Mar 4, 2014)

Devon68 said:


> Why such an expensive case?
> or am I mistaken and your thinking about the NZXT Source 210 as mentioned by RCoon?
> Well anyway I would go for a Source 210 Elite.



I was wanting a case that would minimize the sound of the system as I don't want the buzzing of the machine interfering with video content. That being said, I'm happy to take suggestions!


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## BarbaricSoul (Mar 4, 2014)

dylricho said:


> I was under the impression that the review was saying the A10-7850K w/ R7 + a separate R7 dedicated card.



As far as I can tell, the 7850k iGPU doesn't have a actual number rating like a R7 250 or R7 240 has. It's just R7 graphics.


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## Devon68 (Mar 4, 2014)

> I was wanting a case that would minimize the sound of the system as I don't want the buzzing of the machine interfering with video content. That being said, I'm happy to take suggestions!


Well from what I heard and know you cant get anything better than the Fractal Design R4 if looking for silence (maybe the nanoxia Deep silence but I don't know anything about that case)


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 4, 2014)

BarbaricSoul said:


> As far as I can tell, the 7850k iGPU doesn't have a actual number rating like a R7 250 or R7 240 has. It's just R7 graphics.



heres the specs here

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7677/amd-kaveri-review-a8-7600-a10-7850k


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## dylricho (Mar 4, 2014)

BarbaricSoul said:


> As far as I can tell, the 7850k iGPU doesn't have a actual number rating like a R7 250 or R7 240 has. It's just R7 graphics.



Okay, thank you.



Devon68 said:


> Well from what I heard and know you cant get anything better than the Fractal Design R4 if looking for silence (maybe the nanoxia Deep silence but I don't know anything about that case)



Thank you for the suggestion.

On the video editing side of things, it looks promising with hardware acceleration.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 4, 2014)

dylricho said:


> Okay, thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I provided 3 links- i suggest you go back through and read them


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## dylricho (Mar 4, 2014)

BarbaricSoul said:


> As far as I can tell, the 7850k iGPU doesn't have a actual number rating like a R7 250 or R7 240 has. It's just R7 graphics.



Judging by the frequencies, it sounds like it could be an integrated version of the R7 260, or an R7 250E, even though it supposedly has 2 GB of VRAM.


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## dylricho (Mar 4, 2014)

eidairaman1 said:


> I provided 3 links- i suggest you go back through and read them



Sorry, I missed them. I'll go back and read.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 4, 2014)

dylricho said:


> Sorry, I missed them. I'll go back and read.



very informative they are- personally id go with that type of setup, and IIRC seeing that it is a 260 derivative in the APU


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## dylricho (Mar 4, 2014)

eidairaman1 said:


> very informative they are- personally id go with that type of setup, and IIRC seeing that it is a 260 derivative in the APU



Thank you for the links, and thank you to @BarbaricSoul and @RCoon for the in-depth help and the build suggestion! I'm not going to be able to get the parts just yet, but as soon as I do, you'll hear from me! 

It turns out that Minecraft at 1080p on ultra settings without OptiFine, can run at 70 fps with the A10-7850K. That's good enough for me!


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## dylricho (Mar 4, 2014)

I just went through the suggested configuration again; I didn't notice the dedicated GPU. 

I'm going with the A10-7850K, so is it possible to use both GPUs together? I don't quite understand what SLI and Crossfire mean, although I assume it's something to do with two GPUs together.


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## Norton (Mar 4, 2014)

dylricho said:


> I was wanting a case that would minimize the sound of the system as I don't want the buzzing of the machine interfering with video content. That being said, I'm happy to take suggestions!


 
   The Fractal Define R4 (ATX) or the Define Mini (mATX) case are both super solid cases... heavy too, check the specs! Those cases are worth the money If you want something to minimize the sound of a PC. The Source 210 is also an excellent choice but it is a little light compared to those Fractal models.

*note- the side panels on mine remind more of armor plating for tanks than a PC case part


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 4, 2014)

dylricho said:


> I just went through the suggested configuration again; I didn't notice the dedicated GPU.
> 
> I'm going with the A10-7850K, so is it possible to use both GPUs together? I don't quite understand what SLI and Crossfire mean, although I assume it's something to do with two GPUs together.



Dual Graphics is Hybrid Crossfire, it uses the GPU portion of the APU with a Discrete Graphics card, from looks of it the 7850K has a 260 core, so combine with a 260/260X to get best benefit of it.


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## dylricho (Mar 4, 2014)

Norton said:


> The Fractal Define R4 (ATX) or the Define Mini (mATX) case are both super solid cases... heavy too, check the specs! Those cases are worth the money If you want something to minimize the sound of a PC. The Source 210 is also an excellent choice but it is a little light compared to those Fractal models.
> 
> *note- the side panels on mine remind more of armor plating for tanks than a PC case part



Does the Source 210 have insulation to minimize sound?



eidairaman1 said:


> Dual Graphics is Hybrid Crossfire, it uses the GPU portion of the APU with a Discrete Graphics card, from looks of it the 7850K has a 260 core, so combine with a 260/260X to get best benefit of it.



That would be great, but I think I'll probably end up sticking with the APU graphics for a month or two, before purchasing another GPU to go with it.


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## RCoon (Mar 4, 2014)

dylricho said:


> I just went through the suggested configuration again; I didn't notice the dedicated GPU.
> 
> I'm going with the A10-7850K, so is it possible to use both GPUs together? I don't quite understand what SLI and Crossfire mean, although I assume it's something to do with two GPUs together.



_"AMD did address the concept of Dual Graphics in their press deck. In their limited testing scenario, they paired the A10-7850K (which has R7 graphics) with the R7 240 2GB GDDR3. In fact their suggestion is that any R7 based APU can be paired with any G/DDR3 based R7 GPU. Another disclaimer is that AMD recommends testing dual graphics solutions with their 13.350 driver build, which due out in February. Whereas for today's review we were sent their 13.300 beta 14 and RC2 builds (which at this time have yet to be assigned an official Catalyst version number)."_

SOURCE

It will also Hybrid Crossfire with an R7 250. Any R7 GDDR3 Dedicated GPU will hybrid crossfire with the iGPU of the 7850K.



dylricho said:


> Does the Source 210 have insulation to minimize sound?



With your budget you can't really afford to set aside extra money for the sake of noise insulation. It's a trade off.


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## Norton (Mar 4, 2014)

dylricho said:


> Does the Source 210 have insulation to minimize sound?


 
The Source 210 is just a plain case, sturdy, and fairly lightweight. However, it is a very good case for its price.

As rcoon stated, it is a trade-off considering your budget....


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## Devon68 (Mar 4, 2014)

What ever you decide just never buy  a case like mine. I'm surprised in the bad quality of the metal they used. Too thin side panels. No rubber mounting between the PSU and case metal so it was loud until i glued a piece of rubber to the bottom of the psu. The side window scratched the first time I decided to clean it. So avoid this case at all cost.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 4, 2014)

Minor things that can be fixed


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## dylricho (Mar 4, 2014)

RCoon said:


> With your budget you can't really afford to set aside extra money for the sake of noise insulation. It's a trade off.





Norton said:


> The Source 210 is just a plain case, sturdy, and fairly lightweight. However, it is a very good case for its price.
> 
> As rcoon stated, it is a trade-off considering your budget....



I might be able to afford the additional £40 for it, if I hold off on the unnecessary second GPU. I think noise suppression is important, considering frame rates are already decent without it.



Devon68 said:


> What ever you decide just never buy  a case like mine. I'm surprised in the bad quality of the metal they used. Too thin side panels. No rubber mounting between the PSU and case metal so it was loud until i glued a piece of rubber to the bottom of the psu. The side window scratched the first time I decided to clean it. So avoid this case at all cost.



Would this be the Thermaltake Chaser A31 Black?


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## Devon68 (Mar 4, 2014)

> Would this be the Thermaltake Chaser A31 Black?


Yes


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## dylricho (Mar 6, 2014)

RCoon said:


> It will also Hybrid Crossfire with an R7 250. Any R7 GDDR3 Dedicated GPU will hybrid crossfire with the iGPU of the 7850K.



That's great. I have decided to lay off on the second GPU for a couple of months after the build, but when I do get it, I've decided on the R7 260X as suggested by @eidairaman1.



Devon68 said:


> Yes



Thank you for notifying. 


Having said that, I would like to ask about the motherboard. I'm looking at four  in-particular; one is the MSI A88XM-E45 as suggested by @BarbaricSoul. The other three are the ASUS A88XM-A, the ASUS A88X-PLUS and the ASUS A88XM-PLUS. Judging by the marginal price difference, I would be happy to pay the extra for the additional features of the A88X(M)-PLUS board. Has anyone had any experience with any of these boards?

Is the only difference between the A88X-PLUS and A88XM-PLUS, the form factor?

Oh, and I've also thought about the system over the past 24 hours, and I would like to overclock the processor, but how far will it go? And if I do this, will I also need to overclock the integrated Radeon R7? If I'm overclocking the processor, would I be better off getting a custom cooling system, or is the Define R4's stock processor fan capable enough?

Thank you.


*Edit - *is the A88X-PRO the same as the PLUS? There's nothing on ASUS's website about it, but there seem to be quite a few videos on YouTube that state "Pro."


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 6, 2014)

The other advantage to the setup is you can always do crossfire x with 250s and up


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## dylricho (Mar 6, 2014)

That is something I would be interested in doing to keep the system future-proof.

After close inspection, it seems like the A88X-PLUS board would be the better choice for me.

I've read the Overclockers review of the A10-7850K and it can apparently stably overclock up to 4.70 GHz (1.45 v), or 4.80 GHz (1.504 v). They used AMD OverDrive.

In going up to 4.70 GHz, the 7850K outperforms the i3-4340 in even more benchmarks.

In the same review, it's noted that the GPU can also overclock from 720 MHz, to 1.02 GHz. I should also note that GPU-Z reports the integrated GPU as being a Radeon R7 130F (1002-130F).

I probably do need custom fans for this, but I'll be working with videos and hundreds of Photoshop layers, so this may benefit me.


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## BarbaricSoul (Mar 6, 2014)

if you are going to OC, you do need a aftermarket heat sink. I suggest the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo. http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Comp...+CPU+Cooler+?productId=47248&source=skinflint


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## RCoon (Mar 6, 2014)

BarbaricSoul said:


> if you are going to OC, you do need a aftermarket heat sink. I suggest the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo. http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Fans & Cooling/Air/Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO Quiet CPU Cooler ?productId=47248&source=skinflint


 
Sound advice for a cooler, probably the best budget cooler available, I had one for my old media server while it was overclocked parsing files 24/7.

I know you're on a budget, but the new MSI A88X Gaming motherboard has shown it's metal with OC'ing, you can see the news item on the front page. That, and it looks super shiny. Dragons, son.


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## dylricho (Mar 6, 2014)

BarbaricSoul said:


> if you are going to OC, you do need a aftermarket heat sink. I suggest the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo. http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Fans & Cooling/Air/Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO Quiet CPU Cooler ?productId=47248&source=skinflint



Awesome. Do I need to replace the chassis fans of the Define R4 as well?



RCoon said:


> I know you're on a budget, but the new MSI A88X Gaming motherboard has shown it's metal with OC'ing, you can see the news item on the front page. That, and it looks super shiny. Dragons, son.



The A88X-G45 does look nice, but ASUS really wins me over.


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## HalfAHertz (Mar 6, 2014)

eidairaman1 said:


> The other advantage to the setup is you can always do crossfire x with 250s and up


I think it's just the 250 and nothing above. So if you're planning to get a decent dedicated gpu, the apu is pointless.


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## RCoon (Mar 6, 2014)

HalfAHertz said:


> I think it's just the 250 and nothing above. So if you're planning to get a decent dedicated gpu, the apu is pointless.


 
Anandtech got information from AMD that it was any R7 GPU with GDDR3 memory. Also the APU by itself is not pointless with dedicated GPU's, it's just not as strong at RTS games(or CPU bound titles) as the more expensive contenders.


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## ne6togadno (Mar 6, 2014)

i am a bit late but i kind of missed taging. sorry
http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/355LM


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## dylricho (Mar 6, 2014)

RCoon said:


> ... it was any R7 GPU with GDDR3 memory. ...



Does this mean that it can't work together with the 260X? The TPU database says GDDR5.


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## BarbaricSoul (Mar 6, 2014)

ne6togadno said:


> i am a bit late but i kind of missed taging. sorry
> http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/355LM



Damn, that like totally screws my build over. dylricho, forget the APU, go with ne6togadno's build. It's stronger in every way.


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## RCoon (Mar 6, 2014)

dylricho said:


> Does this mean that it can't work together with the 260X? The TPU database says GDDR5.


 






ne6togadno said:


> i am a bit late but i kind of missed taging. sorry
> http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/355LM


 
Damn son. That RAM price is insanely cheap. I mean there's no ODD, and the case isn't what the OP had in mind for silence, but yeah, that's an awesome build. Would play games way better too.


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## dylricho (Mar 6, 2014)

ne6togadno said:


> i am a bit late but i kind of missed taging. sorry
> http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/355LM



Sweet! Thanks for the suggestion. Now it's time to rethink all over again. 



BarbaricSoul said:


> Damn, that like totally screws my build over. dylricho, forget the APU, go with ne6togadno's build. It's stronger in every way.



I'm assuming the FX-6xxx and FX-8xxx series are higher end processors? Dual Graphics won't be possible with this configuration, but it does allow me to get a more powerful processor. In comparison to the IGPU R7 + R7 260X, will I notice any difference in graphics performance?



RCoon said:


> Damn son. That RAM price is insanely cheap. I mean there's no ODD, and the case isn't what the OP had in mind for silence, but yeah, that's an awesome build. Would play games way better too.



AMD suggested G/DDR3. I assumed that GDDR5 was newer and better, and therefore incompatible?

I must seriously thank you guys for all the help in configuration ideas and suggestions. This is my first build, and my first desktop (having owned two laptops in the past 7 years), so it'll be a fun experience. I'm excited to be building my own computer. Who knows, maybe I'll offer the service out to people in my area that need it! Once again, thank you!


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## ne6togadno (Mar 6, 2014)

RCoon said:


> Damn son. That RAM price is insanely cheap. I mean there's no ODD, and the case isn't what the OP had in mind for silence, but yeah, that's an awesome build. Would play games way better too.


i colleague of mine bought this case resently and he classify it as mid lvl noisy with stock cooler  (with 2 additional fans added on case). my first choice was corsair 200r but it is 20gbp more. if that isnt big deal or if op can add 30-40 more buy the time he is ready to purchase 200r will be better (with additional fans so good airflow is assured inside case)




dylricho said:


> I'm assuming the FX-6xxx and FX-8xxx series are higher end processors? Dual Graphics won't be possible with this configuration, but it does allow me to get a more powerful processor. In comparison to the IGPU R7 + R7 260X, will I notice any difference in graphics performance?



dual graphics between cpu and gpu no cause fx are dedecated cpus but mobo is cf capable and you will be able to add 2nd vga later when you need more gpu power if you need ever.
fx6XXX is mid range line of cpus and will give you better performance in video edit and gaming+streaming. you have to dig more in minecraft specs what it demands more cpu or gpu power


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## BarbaricSoul (Mar 6, 2014)

dylricho said:


> I'm assuming the FX-6xxx and FX-8xxx series are higher end processors? Dual Graphics won't be possible with this configuration, but it does allow me to get a more powerful processor. In comparison to the IGPU R7 + R7 260X, will I notice any difference in graphics performance?



The FX processors are AMD's "performance" processors. These are the CPU's made for gamings and work station computers. While the FX cpus may not have integrated video, they are much more powerful in the CPU department. The FX 6300 paired with a decent video card would make a nice performing gaming computer/work station.

a little edit to ne6togadno's build- http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/356Ak


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## RCoon (Mar 6, 2014)

dylricho said:


> I assumed that GDDR5 was newer and better, and therefore incompatible?


 
correct sir!



dylricho said:


> This is my first build, and my first desktop (having owned two laptops in the past 7 years), so it'll be a fun experience. I'm excited to be building my own computer


I live in Lincolnshire (bloody Northerners), so if you live within a few dozen miles, you can always give me a call if you're seriously stuck. Don't pay a cent to your local ripoff merchant.


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## dylricho (Mar 6, 2014)

ne6togadno said:


> dual graphics between cpu and gpu no cause fx are dedecated cpus but mobo is cf capable and you will be able to add 2nd vga later when you need more gpu power if you need ever.
> fx6XXX is mid range line of cpus and will give you better performance in video edit and gaming+streaming. you have to dig more in minecraft specs what it demands more cpu or gpu power



Minecraft is primarily all about the CPU as it's [stupidly] written in Java, however I was reading this morning that future AMD architectures are going to be processing Java in the GPU, which will certainly make Minecraft run much better.

Thank you for the FX-6xxx configuration, I think I'm almost certainly going to utilize an FX processor now. 



BarbaricSoul said:


> The FX processors are AMD's "performance" processors. These are the CPU's made for gamings and work station computers. While the FX cpus may not have integrated video, they are much more powerful in the CPU department. The FX 6300 paired with a decent video card would make a nice performing gaming computer/work station.



In comparison to an Intel Core ix processor, where would an FX-8350 sit, fully acknowledging of course that the AMD solution is a third of the price?



RCoon said:


> I live in Lincolnshire (bloody Northerners), so if you live within a few dozen miles, you can always give me a call if you're seriously stuck. Don't pay a cent to your local ripoff merchant.



I'm in Leicestershire, which is around 90-ish miles from Skegness.


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## BarbaricSoul (Mar 6, 2014)

dylricho said:


> In comparison to an Intel Core ix processor, where would an FX-8350 sit, fully acknowledging of course that the AMD solution is a third of the price?



Depending on the application, the 8350 trades blows with the 4770k.


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## ne6togadno (Mar 6, 2014)

BarbaricSoul said:


> a little edit to ne6togadno's build- http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/356Ak


ya i saw that ~89gbp offer for 1gb card but i've decided to go for 2gb at +15 price cause cpu cooler can be added next pay day.
this is matter of personal preferences.  can you live for one month with audible pc and get more capable cpu cooler later or you will sacrifice some comfort but will get better performance. also i saw that dylricho wont purchase tomorrow so things may change till shopping time and 20-30+ wouldnt be problem.
my original intent was to go with r9 270x but it is about 40gbp more expensive and this goes too far from 400 target.
http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/355Gy this is with cm k280 case
http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/35d0r this is with corsair's 200r.
odd it isnt mandatory. win install can be done from flash stick and it will be faster then from optical. there are plenty guides online about how to prepare the stick but you will need working pc with odd so you can make image of install dvd so dont trow asus thing in the bin yet.
when time is right dvd combo is about 20gbp for about 40 you can have blueray reader with dvd combo.

@dylricho
keep all builds we have offered. as rcoon said uk online dealers make pretty good sales so at the time you are ready with cash you may find better prices for parts that currently are out of range (i got my ram from ebuyer for 108gbp last year).
as for the amd vs intel question have a look on those
















and opposite opinion








decide by yourself to who you will put your trust on.
from my personal exp with fx i can assure you that with pc from my specs i dont have problems to run teso beta, neverwinter (both on max), steam, opera with 35-40 tabs, raptr and trillian and switching between all of those is as snappy as i am moving icons on desktop. cant say anything about intel thou cause i never owned intel cpu (i dont count p6800 in my laptop cause comparison between desktop and laptop parts is incorrect).


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## RCoon (Mar 6, 2014)

ne6togadno said:


> from my personal exp with fx i can assure you that with pc from my specs i dont have problems to run teso beta, neverwinter (both on max), steam, opera with 35-40 tabs, raptr and trillian and switching between all of those is as snappy as i am moving icons on desktop.



In addition to this, OP can see I own both an 8350 and an i5 4670 (the supposed king of gaming besides the 4770). Both are equally good for my gaming needs, and I would choose either or given the question, neither make any difference to me. Some people have however said that windows feels a little snappier on the 8350 for some reason, even Dave and Btarunr have said they noticed this weird phenomenon. Either way, your choice. Building a new PC is going to be awesome, and regardless of what you choose, you're gonna be stoked for the first few weeks, then become like the rest of us, and serial upgrade to get your hardware fix once in a while. I have a list up to my eyeballs of what I want to do to one of my many rigs.


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## dylricho (Mar 6, 2014)

In all fairness, I sometimes run 20-30 tabs in Chrome with my current machine and it doesn't slow down. 

My main concerns are once again Minecraft, Photoshop and Premiere Pro (both are CS5).

Videos on YouTube have proven Minecraft to be a walk in the park (80~ fps when recording with Fraps; 150-400~ fps without recording), but this guy had 16 GB RAM (unspecified frequency) and a GTX 660 Ti, coupled with his FX-8350.


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## dylricho (Mar 6, 2014)

ne6togadno said:


> ya i saw that ~89gbp offer for 1gb card but i've decided to go for 2gb at +15 price cause cpu cooler can be added next pay day.
> this is matter of personal preferences.  can you live for one month with audible pc and get more capable cpu cooler later or you will sacrifice some comfort but will get better performance. also i saw that dylricho wont purchase tomorrow so things may change till shopping time and 20-30+ wouldnt be problem.
> my original intent was to go with r9 270x but it is about 40gbp more expensive and this goes too far from 400 target.
> http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/355Gy this is with cm k280 case
> ...



I appreciate your help. I'll watch all the videos, and don't worry; I've saved all configurations into a database on my web server, as well as bookmarked the links. By the time I do get to buying the parts, I would imagine a Blu-ray drive would be a viable option.

Just out of curiosity, what sort of performance advantage would the R9 270X offer over the R7 260X? Perhaps it may be within budget by the time I get around to the build.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 6, 2014)

HalfAHertz said:


> I think it's just the 250 and nothing above. So if you're planning to get a decent dedicated gpu, the apu is pointless.



Hybrid crossfire/dual graphics(Apu+ discreet vid card)is what youre talking about. Im talking about Crossfire X (2 or more discreet vid cards)

Also the weapons of most amd users are 6300 or the 8320. At minimum id go with a 4350.


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## ne6togadno (Mar 6, 2014)

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/R9_270X_PCS_Plus/24.html
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/R9_270X_Direct_Cu_II_TOP/26.html
first 2 reviews i met in tpu database. about 36% better performance with r9 at all tested resolutions.
there is drop down menu at the bottom of the page if you wont to start from the begging,



dylricho said:


> In all fairness, I sometimes run 20-30 tabs in Chrome with my current machine and it doesn't slow down.
> 
> My main concerns are once again Minecraft, Photoshop and Premiere Pro (both are CS5).
> 
> Videos on YouTube have proven Minecraft to be a walk in the park (80~ fps when recording with Fraps; 150-400~ fps without recording), but this guy had 16 GB RAM (unspecified frequency) and a GTX 660 Ti, coupled with his FX-8350.


ofc you cant compare his system with your future build. he is comparing top cpus of intel and amd.  your budget is for up to mid range and you will get according performance.
in next video from tech syndicate they build amd gaming system for 1.2k $. your pc will be abut 500$
my point is that despite that most ppl here and there recommend intel in real life gaming situations amd are as capable as intel.
you shouldnt worry about ram amount. pc can run with from 1gb up to 32gb. if you now can afford only 8gb (pretty decent for needs you have described) after few month when you have more $$$ you can buy 2nd 2x4gb kit and you will have 16gb. 10 mins to install em and you are good to go.


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## dylricho (Mar 7, 2014)

ne6togadno said:


> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/R9_270X_PCS_Plus/24.html
> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/R9_270X_Direct_Cu_II_TOP/26.html
> first 2 reviews i met in tpu database. about 36% better performance with r9 at all tested resolutions.
> there is drop down menu at the bottom of the page if you wont to start from the begging,
> ...



I'm a subscriber of Tek Syndicate and I wish Logan would cover the AM3+ ASUS motherboards in more detail.

As I will be purchasing to keep the system future-proof, I'm going with an FX-8350. In all fairness, the budget isn't really that much of a deal, since I will be getting the parts each time I get my paycheck, and gradually, I'll have everything I need.

I was originally going to work to a budget, but then I realize that this machine must last years before an upgrade to the motherboard. So, I think buying bit-by-bit is an easier way to manage a machine cost of around £800, than to grab everything in one go. Therefore, I'm going to scrap the budget and just work with whatever money I have to spend each passing week, month or whatever - however long it takes, the end result will be amazing. 

I want to thank you all once again. With your considerations and my intentions, I've came up with a configuration that I think is what I'm going for. What do you guys think?

*Case* - Fractal Design Define R4 with Window (Black Pearl)
*Motherboard* - ASUS M5A99FX PRO R2.0
*CPU* - AMD FX-8350
*CPU Cooler* - Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO
*Thermal Compound* - Antec Formula 7 Nanodiamond (I'm using this right now with my T9300 and it's great)
*RAM* - 2 x 4 GB G.Skill Ripjaws X Series DDR3-2133 (I'll get another pair in the future)
*SSD* - Kingston SSDNow V300 120 GB (for Windows, Minecraft, Photoshop and Premiere Pro)
*HDD 1* - Seagate Barracuda 1 TB 7200 rpm
*HDD 2* - Western Digital Black Series 1 TB 7200 rpm
*GPU* - Gigabyte R7 260X 2 GB (I may get another down the road and make use of Crossfire)
*WLAN* - TP-Link TL-WN722N 802.11 b/g/n (I rely on Wi-Fi due to no Ethernet in my room)
*ODD* - LG GH24NS95 CD/DVD
*Monitor* - ASUS VE248H 24" 1080p
*PSU* - EVGA SuperNOVA 650 W Gold

I have tried to stay reasonable, but at the same time, future-proof the system for many years to come.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 7, 2014)

You might want to go with a Seasonic, Enermax or corsair Psu.

QUOTE="dylricho, post: 3076125, member: 135479"]I'm a subscriber of Tek Syndicate and I wish Logan would cover the AM3+ ASUS motherboards in more detail.

As I will be purchasing to keep the system future-proof, I'm going with an FX-8350. In all fairness, the budget isn't really that much of a deal, since I will be getting the parts each time I get my paycheck, and gradually, I'll have everything I need.

I was originally going to work to a budget, but then I realize that this machine must last years before an upgrade to the motherboard. So, I think buying bit-by-bit is an easier way to manage a machine cost of around £800, than to grab everything in one go. Therefore, I'm going to scrap the budget and just work with whatever money I have to spend each passing week, month or whatever - however long it takes, the end result will be amazing. 

I want to thank you all once again. With your considerations and my intentions, I've came up with a configuration that I think is what I'm going for. What do you guys think?

*Case* - Fractal Design Define R4 with Window (Black Pearl)
*Motherboard* - ASUS M5A99FX PRO R2.0
*CPU* - AMD FX-8350
*CPU Cooler* - Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO
*Thermal Compound* - Antec Formula 7 Nanodiamond (I'm using this right now with my T9300 and it's great)
*RAM* - 2 x 4 GB G.Skill Ripjaws X Series DDR3-2133 (I'll get another pair in the future)
*SSD* - Kingston SSDNow V300 120 GB (for Windows, Minecraft, Photoshop and Premiere Pro)
*HDD 1* - Seagate Barracuda 1 TB 7200 rpm
*HDD 2* - Western Digital Black Series 1 TB 7200 rpm
*GPU* - Gigabyte R7 260X 2 GB (I may get another down the road and make use of Crossfire)
*WLAN* - TP-Link TL-WN722N 802.11 b/g/n (I rely on Wi-Fi due to no Ethernet in my room)
*ODD* - LG GH24NS95 CD/DVD
*Monitor* - ASUS VE248H 24" 1080p
*PSU* - EVGA SuperNOVA 650 W Gold

I have tried to stay reasonable, but at the same time, future-proof the system for many years to come.[/QUOTE]


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## dylricho (Mar 7, 2014)

eidairaman1 said:


> You might want to go with a Seasonic, Enermax or corsair Psu.



I have created a PCPP link. The end price is around £800, excluding the monitor.

Is there any specific Corsair PSU that you recommend, and have I got the power range correct at 650 W?


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 7, 2014)

Without overclocking id say 650 at minimum. Corsair does have top end 650-850 units.


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## dylricho (Mar 7, 2014)

eidairaman1 said:


> Without overclocking id say 650 at minimum. Corsair does have top end 650-850 units.



I was planning on doing some overclocking, but nothing major. I've heard the FX-8350 can go up to 5.00 GHz, but I would be more content at around 4.50-4.60 GHz. For that, would you recommend a 750 W PSU?


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 7, 2014)

dylricho said:


> I was planning on doing some overclocking, but nothing major. I've heard the FX-8350 can go up to 5.00 GHz, but I would be more content at around 4.50-4.60 GHz. For that, would you recommend a 750 W PSU?



yes the 8350 can but depending on luck of draw on chip,Motherboard, ram, and how beefy the psu is in build quality and the type of cpu cooler being used. Id say honestly oc in baby steps and burn in that cpu. Try for 4.2 Ghz for starters(200Mhz over turbo) then go up and see if you hit  4.3 then 4.4 then 4.5,


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## dylricho (Mar 7, 2014)

eidairaman1 said:


> yes the 8350 can but depending on luck of draw on chip,Motherboard, ram, and how beefy the psu is in build quality and the type of cpu cooler being used. Id say honestly oc in baby steps and burn in that cpu. Try for 4.2 Ghz for starters(200Mhz over turbo) then go up and see if you hit  4.3 then 4.4 then 4.5,



That makes sense, thanks! The Corsair CX750M seems like a good choice, at least according to the rating.

Since I'll be overclocking the default clock, is it also possible to overclock the turbo frequency, or will overclocking simply disable the turbo boost?


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## RCoon (Mar 7, 2014)

For PSU anything between 500 and 600W is fine for a max overclocked CPU and single overclocked GPU. For future crossfire purposes, look at 800+ PSU's. A lot of people these days seem to heavily overestimate how much power a PC takes, and the answer is, not as much as you think it does. I like the EVGA PSU simply because it's Gold rated, and in terms of not cheaping out on a PSU, I'd take the gold over a corsair Bronze/Silver rated 750w, unless you're intending on using that PSU for crossfire.

Here's a PSU calculator for your troubles:
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp



dylricho said:


> Since I'll be overclocking the default clock, is it also possible to overclock the turbo frequency, or will overclocking simply disable the turbo boost?


You can either set the turboboost as an overclock and edit it's perimeters. AKA If the turboboost is 4Ghz and the stock is 3.6, you can overclock the turboboost instead so your PC runs efficiently when you're not doing anything, and then boosts to your desired overclock when you're gaming. That might be intel only, I've never OC'd the turbo on an FX.
Or, you can turn off turboboost in BIOS(This is what most OC'ers do), and then overclock the stock base clock to a permanent clock, so from 3.6 to 4.2 and run at 4.2 permanently.


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## dylricho (Mar 7, 2014)

RCoon said:


> For PSU anything between 500 and 600W is fine for a max overclocked CPU and single overclocked GPU. For future crossfire purposes, look at 800+ PSU's. A lot of people these days seem to heavily overestimate how much power a PC takes, and the answer is, not as much as you think it does. I like the EVGA PSU simply because it's Gold rated, and in terms of not cheaping out on a PSU, I'd take the gold over a corsair Bronze/Silver rated 750w, unless you're intending on using that PSU for crossfire.
> 
> Here's a PSU calculator for your troubles:
> http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp
> ...



Okay, in such a case, I think I'll stick with my EVGA PSU. I do plan on seeking out a second GPU, but I don't suspect it'll be something I need straight away. I was making sure that if I'm going to overclock the system, I want quality parts. 

And in regards to overclocking, I might follow suit with everyone else and disable the turbo, unless there's a way to overclock the turbo frequency independently.


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## RCoon (Mar 7, 2014)

dylricho said:


> Okay, in such a case, I think I'll stick with my EVGA PSU. I do plan on seeking out a second GPU, but I don't suspect it'll be something I need straight away. I was making sure that if I'm going to overclock the system, I want quality parts.
> 
> And in regards to overclocking, I might follow suit with everyone else and disable the turbo, unless there's a way to overclock the turbo frequency independently.


 
In case you're weary of running out of power available, there's a fella on here running a 3770K OC'd and a GTX 690 all on a 550w PSU. So you're safe with your system configuration in terms of PSU requirements. I think independent turbo OC'ing might be an intel only option. As I said, I've not tried it on an FX, I just set it to the permanent running clock.


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## ne6togadno (Mar 7, 2014)

dylricho said:


> I'm a subscriber of Tek Syndicate and I wish Logan would cover the AM3+ ASUS motherboards in more detail.
> 
> As I will be purchasing to keep the system future-proof, I'm going with an FX-8350. In all fairness, the budget isn't really that much of a deal, since I will be getting the parts each time I get my paycheck, and gradually, I'll have everything I need.
> 
> ...


hehe welcom to the addict club 
good build but...
samsung 840 evo is best price/performance/quality rating atm
you dont need 2x 1tb hdds. it will be cheaper if you get 1x 2tb hdd
to unleash the beast 212evo wont be sufficient. it is very good for replacment of stock cooler and minor oc but for 4.5ghz you will need something better. better mb would be good too.
r7 260x is crap video for that cpu. it like you added v10 biturbo engine in your car but you have sticked it with tractor gearbox. r9 280x is minimum here.
case is good for silent performance but i doubt that it will be so silent with high oced cpu. it has too few fans which will reduce air circulation inside. this will pump up cpu fan rpms and silence will go away. it will be better if you get case with high fans slots number add all fans possible and reduce rpms of fans so they work silently. haf932 advance wold be perfect but pcpartpicker cant find it offered in uk. you can easy add insulation on side panels to reduce noise but adding additional fans when there isnt mounting points will require a lot of drilling at least
consider options to wire your pc instead of wlan. with good rooter you will get way better speeds (both in lan and wan)
and last but not least 8350. you can do it with 8320 and with saved money get better other components.
since you dont have fixed price anymore i would sugest you this http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/35AU2 and you will never need 2nd card unless you decide you want to play crysis [whatever number it is actual at that time] on 4k monitor at mega-giga-ultra settings.
but if you are too scared from price of 290 here is 280x version http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/35AU2
in few months new gen cards from nvidia is expected and there will be price changes for current graphics at the time of the purchase you may get better deals.
as for the buying keep saved cash till you find good sale deals for part you are looking at (then you can get 8350 at the current price of the 8320 i have missed such deals last year cause of lack of money  )
also newegg is coming in uk at late May and most likely there will be some killer deals from them at the begging so just keep you eyes


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## RCoon (Mar 7, 2014)

OP, just because you have no ethernet, doesn't mean you can't have ethernet 

Powerline Adapter

EDIT: Amazon links are F'd on TPU for some reason, go on Amazon and search for 200mbps Powerline Adapter. Top one for £15

I have 4 of these at home, and have 84mbps broadband, they do their job nicely.


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## BarbaricSoul (Mar 7, 2014)

ne6togadno said:


> hehe welcom to the addict club
> good build but...
> samsung 840 evo is best price/performance/quality rating atm
> you dont need 2x 1tb hdds. it will be cheaper if you get 1x 2tb hdd
> ...



About your build proposals ne6togadno, to use a Noctua NH-D14, you need low profile RAM. I had to cut off the heat spreader on one of my sticks Corsair Vengence RAM to be able to mount the NH-D14 in my 2600k rig. Other than that, I approve of the proposals, and prefer the one with the R9 290.


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## ne6togadno (Mar 7, 2014)

BarbaricSoul said:


> About your build proposals ne6togadno, to use a Noctua NH-D14, you need low profile RAM. I had to cut off the heat spreader on one of my sticks Corsair Vengence RAM to be able to mount the NH-D14 in my 2600k rig. Other than that, I approve of the proposals, and prefer the one with the R9 290.


amd and intel board are different. but even if we count this as problem at minimal price (or performance cost) ram can be replaced with other model.

edit:
http://www.overclock.net/t/628569/official-noctua-nh-d14-club/1410#post_13777382
http://forum.giga-byte.co.uk/index.php?topic=5704.0
i dotn think there will be problems.
edit2:
http://gskill.com/en/product/f3-2400c11d-8gxm
ripjaw X is 40mm hight. there will be 4mm clearense between sink fins and ram


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## BarbaricSoul (Mar 7, 2014)

that's all I was suggesting (looking at the picture of the Gigabyte board, yeah it WILL have this problem with the NH-D14), select some low profile RAM like Corsair Vengence LP and your builds are golden.

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/35Emj


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## ne6togadno (Mar 7, 2014)

BarbaricSoul said:


> that's all I was suggesting (looking at the picture of the Gigabyte board, yeah it WILL have this problem with the NH-D14),


there isnt problem ram to fit under cooler
http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=faqs&step=2&products_id=34&lng=en#13
unfortunately corsair doesnt give dimensions of their ram
edit:
btw at what direction you have installed cooler. it isnt simetric and if you install it so that fan is over ram then you will have more space between ram and fins then if you have installed it in the way that fan is over vrms


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## BarbaricSoul (Mar 7, 2014)

Huh? Either way I mount it, the fins are over dimms 1 and 2. I have it mounted so the fans air flow is horizontal, not vertical, and have a intake fan mounted in the case blowing air straight into the first fan on the NH-D14.

excuse the dust-


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## ne6togadno (Mar 7, 2014)

BarbaricSoul said:


> Huh? Either way I mount it, the fins are over dimms 1 and 2. I have it mounted so the fans air flow is horizontal, not vertical, and have a intake fan mounted in the case blowing air straight into the first fan on the NH-D14.
> 
> excuse the dust-











according to noctua the side with 62mm form center should be the side over ram. ripjawX with heat sink is 40mm tall so you should be able to fit your ram under cooler w/o collision problems. fan height is adjustable so it too isnt problem


----------



## dylricho (Mar 7, 2014)

ne6togadno said:


> better mb would be good too.
> r7 260x is crap video for that cpu.



What's wrong with the motherboard? 

And like I said, I don't want to go overboard. I'd be much happier waiting for the R9 270X to go down in price.



RCoon said:


> OP, just because you have no ethernet, doesn't mean you can't have ethernet
> 
> Powerline Adapter
> 
> ...



Pointless for me. We only have 20 Mb/s broadband in our area; no fiber. And I get 20 Mb/s through Wi-Fi easily enough.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Mar 8, 2014)

Asoka now have 200 Mbps units now.

trust me youd want adapters with 100Mbps atleast on ethernet. Ethernet is the best out of connectivity.



RCoon said:


> OP, just because you have no ethernet, doesn't mean you can't have ethernet
> 
> Powerline Adapter
> 
> ...


----------



## dylricho (Mar 8, 2014)

Ethernet is the best, agreed but like I said, my area only has 20 Mb/s broadband with no sign of future upgrades.

I can achieve my full connection using Wi-Fi.

The motherboard supports Gigabit Ethernet so it's future-proof, should my area get an upgrade in the coming years.


----------



## dylricho (Mar 8, 2014)

Hello guys,

I was just reading this thread about VRM, and happened to notice another motherboard almost identical to my current choice. Out of the two, which should I go for, as I'm not sure exactly what the difference is, other than the PCI slot section.

And would either of them have sufficient PCI x16 slots for two GPUs?

- M5A99FX PRO R2.0
- M5A99X EVO R2.0


----------



## RCoon (Mar 8, 2014)

dylricho said:


> M5A99FX PRO R2.0



2 x PCIe 2.0 x16 (dual x16) 



dylricho said:


> - M5A99X EVO R2.0



2 x PCIe 2.0 x16 (x16 or dual x8)

The first would "technically" be a better choice, as it has the higher lane bandwidth, which makes almost no difference. There is a small percentage improvement with x16, but it's in the single percentile.


----------



## dylricho (Mar 8, 2014)

I see, thank you. Do you have any gripes with either board?


----------



## RCoon (Mar 8, 2014)

dylricho said:


> I see, thank you. Do you have any gripes with either board?



None at all, I believe the PRO is a better board, but I actually used to run a PII X6 1055t @ 4Ghz on an EVO board a few years back and it handled it alright.


----------



## Melvis (Mar 8, 2014)

dylricho said:


> I see, so there would be no point in buying from the US?
> 
> - A88XM-A = $78.40
> - A88XM-PLUS = $93 / £61
> ...



The 7850K is almost the same price as the FX 8350 here in Australia  So i went with the 7700K


http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=187_345&products_id=26649

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=187_1512&products_id=21806


----------



## dylricho (Mar 8, 2014)

RCoon said:


> None at all, I believe the PRO is a better board, but I actually used to run a PII X6 1055t @ 4Ghz on an EVO board a few years back and it handled it alright.



Awesome. I'm going to go with the PRO. How many HDDs/SSDs can this motherboard support? My case has 8 bays. It also supports up to 6 fans; will I be able to use them all with this board?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Mar 9, 2014)

to help ya better go to Asus.com and look up the motherboard your looking at, there are manuals you can download for it


----------



## RCoon (Mar 9, 2014)

dylricho said:


> Awesome. I'm going to go with the PRO. How many HDDs/SSDs can this motherboard support? My case has 8 bays. It also supports up to 6 fans; will I be able to use them all with this board?


*
AMD SB950 controller : *
5 x SATA 6Gb/s port(s), gray
1 x eSATA port(s), red
*ASMedia® PCIe SATA controller : *
2 x SATA 6Gb/s port(s), navy blue

It will support 5 drives, plus an extra 2 via the PCIe controller (which I tend not to use), and one eSATA, which you probably won't be able to use unless you have a specific type of drive.


----------



## dylricho (Mar 9, 2014)

eidairaman1 said:


> to help ya better go to Asus.com and look up the motherboard your looking at, there are manuals you can download for it



I already have the user manual downloaded, but I wasn't sure if one SATA port meant one hard drive, or if a SATA port could link up several drives.



RCoon said:


> *AMD SB950 controller : *
> 5 x SATA 6Gb/s port(s), gray
> 1 x eSATA port(s), red
> *ASMedia® PCIe SATA controller : *
> ...



7 will be sufficient. I'll only have one at the start (an SSD for the OS and most commonly used programs), and then I'll get two 1 TB hard drives for all other programs, web development data and videos.

If one SATA port equates to one drive, then I assume one fan connector equates to one fan?


*Edit*
That is odd; the manual says that the motherboard supports RAID, but the site says only the EVO version supports RAID.


----------



## RCoon (Mar 9, 2014)

dylricho said:


> one fan connector equates to one fan?



Correct, but fan controllers are cheap as chips, and some (crappy)fans require 4 pin molex instead of using a motherboard fan header, I don't recommend buying any of those though.


----------



## dylricho (Mar 9, 2014)

RCoon said:


> Correct, but fan controllers are cheap as chips, and some (crappy)fans require 4 pin molex instead of using a motherboard fan header, I don't recommend buying any of those though.



I've gone with Fractal Design's own Silent Series R2 140 mm fans for consistency. Since the board only supports 5, I'll leave the fan out that sits at the bottom of the case.

Also, do you recommend placing the PSU with the fan-side down, or facing up? I'm not too sure on where I'll place the case, but I have a wooden desk and a carpet, and I don't want to suffocate the system, if I go with the carpet, nor do I want to damage the desk or corrupt the airflow with the wood.


----------



## Norton (Mar 9, 2014)

dylricho said:


> I've gone with Fractal Design's own Silent Series R2 140 mm fans for consistency. Since the board only supports 5, I'll leave the fan out that sits at the bottom of the case.
> 
> Also, do you recommend placing the PSU with the fan-side down, or facing up? I'm not too sure on where I'll place the case, but I have a wooden desk and a carpet, and I don't want to suffocate the system, if I go with the carpet, nor do I want to damage the desk or corrupt the airflow with the wood.



I usually go fan side up but either way should be fine.

* note- if you set the case on carpet then just put it on  piece of wood- I saved a shelf from an old bookcase to use when I set my case down on the carpet


----------



## dylricho (Mar 9, 2014)

Norton said:


> I usually go fan side up but either way should be fine.
> 
> * note- if you set the case on carpet then just put it on  piece of wood- I saved a shelf from an old bookcase to use when I set my case down on the carpet



Going with fan-side up won't affect the temperature of the components in a negative way, will it?

And does that mean that if I place it on my desk, it'll be just fine? Perhaps I'm just being overcautious.


----------



## dylricho (Mar 10, 2014)

Also guys,

I've noticed that I can save £100~ by buying a single 4 GB Radeon R9 270X, rather than two 2 GB versions. There are quite a few complaints that CrossfireX usability is pretty bad at the moment, but which should I go for, and would I be able to use the EVGA SuperNOVA NEX650G?

Both cards are by Gigabyte, featuring Windforce X3 cooling and have a TDP of 180 watts, but the 4 GB version has a turbo frequency of 1.11 GHz, as compared to the 1.10 GHz of the 2 GB version. I also know that in CrossFireX and SLI, the VRAM doesn't stack.

As this system is to last at least half a decade, and I would like to play GTA V on PC, when it comes out (I have no idea how demanding it will be), I'm leaning towards the single 4 GB card, but I'm not entirely sure on a final decision. Not only that, but I can save £100 going into the future.

According to Gigabyte, the card requires a 500-watt PSU with two 6-pin PCIe connectors. I know the PSU is within the power requirement, but am I correct in saying that I can use two of the red PCIe 8-pin ports, but leave 2 pins unconnected to anything?

Does the PSU even come with enough cables for this? Apart from the motherboard connector, these cables mean nothing to me!


----------



## Vario (Mar 10, 2014)

Fan side up for power supply is usually the way to go in my opinion because it helps exhaust air.  I have found that putting the fan side down makes the power supply get hotter even if there's a nice big vent its pulling through.  Won't hurt the power supply at all.

*4GB R9 270X is all marketing, the card won't benefit in the real world from the extra 2GB of VRam*.  So if you want to save the money then just buy a single 2GB card or continue with original plan of 2x2GB cards. Also crossfire doesn't add the two card's ram together so buying 2 cards won't give you 4GB of Vram either, as you stated.

other way to go is buy a single more powerful card: R9 280X or 770, 780, 780ti

That power supply should support it if it supports crossfire.  Since it shows 4 8 pin PCI-E terminals it will be fine.  You leave the 2 extra pins unconnected because the 8 pin is a 6+2 pin.  The extra 2 pins are grounds.  Higher wattage graphics cards sometimes require the ground.

If you are running two cards you might want a 750 watt instead of a 650 watt, not sure tbqh.

This review: http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/5...b-toxic-video-cards-in-crossfire/index22.html

... indicates that 650 watts is fine.


----------



## dylricho (Mar 10, 2014)

Vario said:


> Fan side up for power supply is usually the way to go in my opinion because it helps exhaust air.  I have found that putting the fan side down makes the power supply get hotter even if there's a nice big vent its pulling through.  Won't hurt the power supply at all.
> 
> *4GB R9 270X is all marketing, the card won't benefit in the real world from the extra 2GB of VRam*.  So if you want to save the money then just buy a single 2GB card or continue with original plan of 2x2GB cards. Also crossfire doesn't add the two card's ram together so buying 2 cards won't give you 4GB of Vram either, as you stated.
> 
> ...



Awesome, thank you for the detailed response!

Fan-side up is how I'll do it then. 

I am aware that VRAM doesn't stack with a multi-GPU configuration (I'm not sure if that's what you were pointing out, or if you thought I didn't, so apologies if I'm just repeating what you said).

I will be running up to 3 monitors at 1080p for my web development and design work. I'm just trying to figure out if the extra £100 is worth it for CrossfireX, or if I should just go with the 4-gigabyte card outright. The 4 GB card is £60 cheaper than the 2 GB R9 280X, as well.

Decisions, decisions.


----------



## Dent1 (Mar 10, 2014)

dylricho said:


> Awesome, thank you for the detailed response!
> 
> Fan-side up is how I'll do it then.
> 
> ...



The 2GB 280x would be faster than the 4GB R9 270x. The extra 2GB isn't going to improve performance enough to compensate because the gap in processing performance is too wide.

The R9 270x is still a good card in it's own right, if it fits your budget I wouldn't hesitate. But considering you want this rig to last at latest 5 years I would shoot as high as possible i.e. R9. 280x.


Edit:

PS. Keep in mind CF adds a lot of extra noise to the system. It can be the difference between having a near silent gaming rig to having a lawn mower. The extra heat from having two cards stacked above one another further add additional noise in idle and full load as fan speed is temperature based.

Edit 2:

In a CF scenario the crossfire R9 270x would be slightly faster than a R9 280x. Make sure the extra performance outweighs the problems CF can bring. (heat, noise, driver issues etc)


----------



## dylricho (Mar 11, 2014)

Dent1 said:


> The 2GB 280x would be faster than the 4GB R9 270x. The extra 2GB isn't going to improve performance enough to compensate because the gap in processing performance is too wide.
> 
> The R9 270x is still a good card in it's own right, if it fits your budget I wouldn't hesitate. But considering you want this rig to last at latest 5 years I would shoot as high as possible i.e. R9. 280x.
> 
> ...



I'm sure it would be, but I'm trying to stay at a reasonable price limit, and therefore the 270X is as high as I'd like to go.

The 4 GB 270X is £187, while two 2 GB 270X are £296.

I could imagine using quite a decent amount of video memory across three 1080p monitors, but is CrossfireX worth the additional £109, to counteract my choice?


----------



## Dent1 (Mar 11, 2014)

dylricho said:


> I'm sure it would be, but I'm trying to stay at a reasonable price limit, and therefore the 270X is as high as I'd like to go.
> 
> The 4 GB 270X is £187, while two 2 GB 270X are £296.
> 
> I could imagine using quite a decent amount of video memory across three 1080p monitors, but is CrossfireX worth the additional £109, to counteract my choice?



Will you be gaming with all three monitors? If so you'll need something faster than a single 270X irrespective of its VRAM. You'll likely need to CF it or shoot for the R9 280x

To answer your question the 2 GB 270X  @ £296 would be significantly faster than the 4GB 270X regardless of monitor quantity. But keep in mind a single 280X can be had for £250.

Having 3 monitors will not impact the VRAM much, most of the VRAM is going to be filled with game textures.


----------



## dylricho (Mar 11, 2014)

Dent1 said:


> Will you be gaming with all three monitors? If so you'll need something faster than a single 270X irrespective of its VRAM. You'll likely need to CF it or shoot for the R9 280x
> 
> To answer your question the 2 GB 270X  @ £296 would be significantly faster than the 4GB 270X. But keep in mind a single 280X can be had for £250.
> 
> Having 3 monitors will not impact the VRAM much, most of the VRAM is going to be filled with game textures.



I won't be using all three for gaming; I'm fairly certain that I would keep to a single monitor for that.

The multi-monitor setup would be used more in the area of Photoshop, or say if I wanted to browse the web on one screen and use the other for gaming, simultaneously.


----------



## Dent1 (Mar 11, 2014)

dylricho said:


> I won't be using all three for gaming; I'm fairly certain that I would keep to a single monitor for that..



I see, then a single 2GB 270X should be enough for  gaming on one monitor.



dylricho said:


> The multi-monitor setup would be used more in the area of Photoshop, or say if I wanted to browse the web on one screen and use the other for gaming, simultaneously.



This is more to do with processor performance and RAM capacity.


Read this review, it compares the  crossfire 2GB 270x with a single 280x and 290x.  Read every single page including the conclusion.

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/5...2gb-toxic-video-cards-in-crossfire/index.html


----------



## dylricho (Mar 11, 2014)

Dent1 said:


> I see, then a single 2GB 270X should be enough for  gaming on one monitor.
> 
> This is more to do with processor performance and RAM capacity.
> 
> ...



It also relies on VRAM with OpenGL/OpenCL acceleration, especially when you get into the extremely large files, with hundreds of layers and large resolutions. Something that Photoshop lacks on my current machine is OpenGL acceleration because the integrated graphics chip is terrible, but the processor makes up for it in other areas.

Ideally, I want this machine to last 3-5 years without an upgrade - at most, upgrades limited to additional HDDs/SDDs and another 16 GB RAM kit, but nothing else if I can help it. That's also why I did consider the 4 GB option.


----------



## Dent1 (Mar 11, 2014)

dylricho said:


> It also relies on VRAM with OpenGL/OpenCL acceleration, especially when you get into the extremely large files, with hundreds of layers and large resolutions. Something that Photoshop lacks on my current machine is OpenGL acceleration because the integrated graphics chip is terrible, but the processor makes up for it in other areas.
> 
> Ideally, I want this machine to last 3-5 years without an upgrade - at most, upgrades limited to additional HDDs/SDDs and another 16 GB RAM kit, but nothing else if I can help it. That's also why I did consider the 4 GB option.




Photoshop is processor and RAM dependant, with OpenGL/OpenCL acceleration its offloading some of the work from the CPU to the GPU, there would be more emphasis on a faster GPU architecture in general as VRAM isn't' going to help it compute anything. Yes more VRAM is better but it isn't a factor worth considering, 9/10 the entire 4GB of VRAM will be unutilised.  If your using extremely large files with hundreds of layers and large resolutions this is more of a issue for your main memory as it can fill up quickly, if that's the case 8GB of RAM probably isn't enough.

Back to gaming,

The 4 GB 270X is £187, if your intention is to run CF that's £374. You'd be better off spending only £305 and getting a single 4GB R9 290.

I'm still liking the idea of the 2 GB 270X in CF for £296 as it will outperform the 4GB R9 290 slightly for a few pounds cheaper. But enough extra performance to outweigh the CF disadvantages? I'm not sure.

http://www.ebuyer.com/583808-asus-r...mi-displayport-pci-e-graphics-card-r9290-4gd5
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_290/26.html


----------



## dylricho (Mar 12, 2014)

Hi Dent!

My plan was to leave out CrossfireX with the 4 GB 270X, or utilize it with the 2 GB 270X. And as a natural reaction to what I've been seeing on YouTube, I was inclined to take route number one.

As for the RAM, I've gone with 16 GB of DDR3-1866 by Corsair. This will then allow me to upgrade to 32 GB without 'throwing money away' in the future, since only two slots will be utilized and the modules will be compatible.


----------



## Dent1 (Mar 12, 2014)

dylricho said:


> Hi Dent!
> 
> My plan was to leave out CrossfireX with the 4 GB 270X, or utilize it with the 2 GB 270X. And as a natural reaction to what I've been seeing on YouTube, I was inclined to take route number one.



Route #2 is better in every single conceivable way in terms of performance. I can't see how anyone on YouTube could make an augment otherwise. Can you post the videos?

A single 4 GB 270X is virtually the same as a single 2GB 270X. You are paying £40 more for virtually no gain.  It's literally the same as flushing the cash down the toilet.

If you want a 4GB card with the 2GB 270X CF performance (near) and price the R9 290 is the compromise.



dylricho said:


> As for the RAM, I've gone with 16 GB of DDR3-1866 by Corsair. This will then allow me to upgrade to 32 GB without 'throwing money away' in the future, since only two slots will be utilized and the modules will be compatible.



I think this is a good idea. I've been running 16GB of DDR3 since 2009, back when it was only £75 a pack.  Since then I've seen people move from 4GB, to 6GB to 8GB and now to 16GB, meanwhile memory prices increased at every upgrade for them.

Edit:

I found an interesting review:
http://lanoc.org/review/video-cards/6815-msi-r9-270x-gaming-4g?showall=&start=5
http://lanoc.org/review/video-cards/6815-msi-r9-270x-gaming-4g?showall=&start=6
Notice that the 2GB and 4GB version of the R9 270x score virtually identical results, sometimes the 4GB version appeared slower? But most within margin for error.


----------



## dylricho (Mar 12, 2014)

Dent1 said:


> Route #2 is better in every single conceivable way in terms of performance. I can't see how anyone on YouTube could make an augment otherwise. Can you post the videos?
> 
> A single 4 GB 270X is virtually the same as a single 2GB 270X. You are paying £40 more for virtually no gain.  It's literally the same as flushing the cash down the toilet.
> 
> If you want a 4GB card with the 2GB 270X CF performance (near) and price the R9 290 is the compromise.





Dent1 said:


> I found an interesting review: http://lanoc.org/review/video-cards/6815-msi-r9-270x-gaming-4g?showall=&start=6
> 
> Notice that the 2GB and 4GB version of the R9 270x score virtually identical results, sometimes the 4GB version appeared slower? But all within margin for error.



It was mainly a driver concern from what I can make of it. The real benefits of CrossfireX are yet to be seen due to poor driver support at the moment. I was under the impression that CrossfireX had been out for quite some time, or maybe I'm just missing the obvious point that each graphics card needs its own drivers for optimum CrossfireX performance. I assume that AMD Mantle will help even more.

I should note that I wasn't planning on buying two 270X cards at the same time - one with the configuration, and then another as a secondary purchase in the future. Does this affect your choice?

And would these in CrossfireX help with gaming like GTA V (when it finally comes!) and Minecraft?


----------



## Dent1 (Mar 12, 2014)

dylricho said:


> It was mainly a driver concern from what I can make of it. The real benefits of CrossfireX are yet to be seen due to poor driver support at the moment. I was under the impression that CrossfireX had been out for quite some time, or maybe I'm just missing the obvious point that each graphics card needs its own drivers for optimum CrossfireX performance. I assume that AMD Mantle will help even more.



I've been running CF for over half a decade. 4850 CF, and now 5850 CF.   I've been lucky as I've had very few CF issues. Most of the CF issues people were reporting was Micro Stutter. This issue has been addressed for the most part.

CF doesn't need special driver to work, your regular catalyst drivers come integrated with CF drivers. They are not done on a card by card basis, A single catalyst driver update will improve CF and non CF performance for the entire range, and usually a few ranges before it too.

Even in the worst case scenario you'll at least get 25% boost, 50% typically, even 75% isn't unusual depending on how the two cards scale.

To give you an idea, this image was from 2009.

In Call of Duty 4, the 4870 got 55.7 FPS,  the 4870 CF got 118 FPS.   More than double performance. (Reviews are done early, so the drivers are first revision too)
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/atiradeonhd4870_062408145208/17137.png


Mantle is a different technology which has nothing to do with CF.




dylricho said:


> I should note that I wasn't planning on buying two 270X cards at the same time - one with the configuration, and then another as a secondary purchase in the future. Does this affect your choice?



Yes, because by the time you install the second 270x there may be a better and cheaper 1 card solution.



dylricho said:


> And would these in CrossfireX help with gaming like GTA V (when it finally comes!) and Minecraft?



By the nature of Crossfire it will improve the performance of all games.

PS. GTA 4 was one of the most un-optimised PC games of the decade.


----------



## dylricho (Mar 12, 2014)

Dent1 said:


> Even in the worst case scenario you'll at least get 25% boost, 50% typically, even 75% isn't unusual depending on how the two cards scale.
> 
> In Call of Duty 4, the 4870 got 55.7 FPS,  the 4870 CF got 118 FPS.   More than double performance. (Reviews are done early, so the drivers are first revision too)
> http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/atiradeonhd4870_062408145208/17137.png
> ...



Wow, that's a great improvement, and what I was getting at is that my modern AMD GPU could perhaps benefit from Mantle API games. Do you know if HSA from the APU Kaveri series is going to be implemented into the Radeon R7/R9 GPUs, or is it a hardware requirement and not software/driver related?




Dent1 said:


> Yes, because by the time you install the second 270x there may be a better and cheaper 1 card solution.



This doesn't really bother me; as long as the hardware I have can run the software that I need, that's all that matters to me. Future upgrades are going to be inevitable in any setup, and nothing lasts forever - even the R9 290 won't. From what I read on the 'net, the R9 270X is a decent high-end card, whether it be a single 4 GB version, or two 2 GB cards, I'm pretty sure they'll manage. Perhaps GTA V will be the most intensive program of them all when it's released.

One thing is for sure - this setup will completely obliterate my current setup with terrible Intel GMA X3100 graphics! 



Dent1 said:


> By the nature of Crossfire it will improve the performance of all games.
> 
> PS. GTA 4 was one of the most un-optimised PC games of the decade.



Haha! Tell me about that with GTA IV - and that plays fluently with a single 2 GB R9 270X at 60~ fps.

I did read that GTA V was being developed for the x86 platform independently of the PS3/X360 versions, so I'm hoping this game will play on my machine, even if I do go with a single R9 270X.


----------



## Dent1 (Mar 12, 2014)

dylricho said:


> Wow, that's a great improvement, and what I was getting at is that my modern AMD GPU could perhaps benefit from Mantle API games. Do you know if HSA from the APU Kaveri series is going to be implemented into the Radeon R7/R9 GPUs, or is it a hardware requirement and not software/driver related?
> 
> This doesn't really bother me; as long as the hardware I have can run the software that I need, that's all that matters to me. Future upgrades are going to be inevitable in any setup, and nothing lasts forever - even the R9 290 won't. From what I read on the 'net, the R9 270X is a decent high-end card, whether it be a single 4 GB version, or two 2 GB cards, I'm pretty sure they'll manage. Perhaps GTA V will be the most intensive program of them all when it's released.
> 
> One thing is for sure - this setup will completely obliterate my current setup with terrible Intel GMA X3100 graphics!



The Kaveri 7700K has an integrated R7

I doubt you'll see anything at the R9 level on an APU because it will break the TDP limits.


The R9 270X is a decent card for the price, its definitely not a high end card though. More midrange but it should be able to handle any game you throw at it today.




dylricho said:


> Haha! Tell me about that with GTA IV - and that plays fluently with a single 2 GB R9 270X at 60~ fps.
> 
> 
> I did read that GTA V was being developed for the x86 platform independently of the PS3/X360 versions, so I'm hoping this game will play on my machine, even if I do go with a single R9 270X.



GTA IV will be one of the more intensive games, along with BF4.  The performance of GTA 4 was one of its biggest criticisms, it ran terrible even on high end rigs at the time. Hopefully Rockstar have learnt from their mistake. I can't predict the frame rate we have to wait until its released. But IMO I  think it will be playable at high detail.


Edit:

Just to revisit crossfire again:

Very high and ultra settings, 1920x1200, 270x in CF.

Metro Last Light:
Single card: 17.21FPS, crossfire 27.45FPS

Hitman absolution:
Single card: 31FPS, crossfire 57 FPS

Sleeping dogs:
Single card: 37 FPS, crossfire 71 FPS

Tomb Raider
Single card: 46 FPS, crossfire 87 FPS

http://www.reviewstudio.net/868-amd-radeon-r9-270x-crossfirex-and-r9-280x-4-way-crossfirex-review

I'm not saying you should get CF, I'm just trying to point out that CF does work, it isn't some gimmick or some half-baked idea and its in full maturity.


----------



## dylricho (Mar 13, 2014)

Thank you so much. A lot of guys over at GTA Forums seem to think my build will handle it as well. I was just skeptical as this comparison website indicates that 3DMark11 results are up to three times higher with the Radeon HD 6970, vs. my R9 270X. However, further research proved this to be false - looking at the 3DMark11 benchmark website, it's a different story - Radeon HD 6970, vs. my R9 270X.

I'll definitely try to get a second card as quickly as possible to run in CrossfireX.

May I ask about a suitable Wi-Fi adapter for my desktop build? I don't know whether to go with USB or PCIe? My current laptop has a built-in adapter by Qualcomm, so it's something I've never had to consider.

Our connection is only 20 Mb/s, so Ethernet is pointless, and I rely on Wi-Fi. I was under the impression that WLAN adapters didn't have antenna sticking out as I've never came across one before.

Do you recommend a TL-WN8200ND, ASUS PCE-N15 or TL-WN881ND?

Do I need, or can I use both a USB and a PCIe adapter?

My signal is pretty poor where I am (router is at the back of the house, downstairs, while I am at the front of the house, upstairs).

Thank you once again.


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## Dent1 (Mar 13, 2014)

dylricho said:


> Thank you so much. A lot of guys over at GTA Forums seem to think my build will handle it as well. I was just skeptical as this comparison website indicates that 3DMark11 results are up to three times higher with the Radeon HD 6970, vs. my R9 270X. However, further research proved this to be false - looking at the 3DMark11 benchmark website, it's a different story - Radeon HD 6970, vs. my R9 270X.
> 
> I'll definitely try to get a second card as quickly as possible to run in CrossfireX.
> 
> ...



I personally would go for an external one because I can use a 2 meter USB extender cable to position it for better signal. http://www.ebuyer.com/130588-xenta-black-usb-2-0-extension-cable-2-metre-plex-076

I actually have an TP-Link TL-WN822N which I've been using for a few year without issue. http://www.ebuyer.com/262952-tp-link-tl-wn822n-high-gain-wireless-n-usb-adapter-tl-wn822n

Saying that the TP-LINK TL-WN8200ND has a slightly better dual antenna (5 dBi opposed to 3 dBi)     http://www.ebuyer.com/432749-tp-link-300mbps-high-power-wireless-usb-adapter-tl-wn8200nd

To improve signal, you could install another router upstairs. Your computer will connect to the one with the strongest signal upstairs, whilst if you're roaming on a laptop or mobile it'll be more included to connect downstairs where the signal strongest. You can also buy a wireless booster device, I have no experience with them so can't say if they work.


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## dylricho (Mar 14, 2014)

Dent1 said:


> I personally would go for an external one because I can use a 2 meter USB extender cable to position it for better signal. http://www.ebuyer.com/130588-xenta-black-usb-2-0-extension-cable-2-metre-plex-076
> 
> I actually have an TP-Link TL-WN822N which I've been using for a few year without issue. http://www.ebuyer.com/262952-tp-link-tl-wn822n-high-gain-wireless-n-usb-adapter-tl-wn822n
> 
> ...



Thanks for responding. So basically, I can use one or the other? For example, if I was to insert the USB TL-WN8200ND into my laptop I have right now, it will disable the built-in WLAN adapter by Qualcomm and use the external one instead?

If so, I may end up going with the TL-WN8200ND.

Again, many thanks for the assistance!


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## Dent1 (Mar 15, 2014)

dylricho said:


> Thanks for responding. So basically, I can use one or the other? For example, if I was to insert the USB TL-WN8200ND into my laptop I have right now, it will disable the built-in WLAN adapter by Qualcomm and use the external one instead?
> 
> If so, I may end up going with the TL-WN8200ND.
> 
> Again, many thanks for the assistance!



Yes that is correct.

Keep in mind the TL-WN8200ND is designed to sit on the desk, so it might be uncomfortable to use on the sofa or on your lap as the cable will be dangling.


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## dylricho (Mar 15, 2014)

Dent1 said:


> Yes that is correct.
> 
> Keep in mind the TL-WN8200ND is designed to sit on the desk, so it might be uncomfortable to use on the sofa or on your lap as the cable will be dangling.



That's not a problem. I plan on using it with my desktop build, and so it'll most likely be put onto my desk. The fact that it's USB with a cable means that I can use it for both machines, as well as maneuver the adapter around to get the best signal. I was just unsure if external adapters had any disadvantages over internal cards, that's all. 

Thanks!


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 16, 2014)

Akasa 200Mbps Pluglinks with management for powerline internet/ethernet


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## dylricho (Mar 21, 2014)

I'm waiting for my TP-Link TL-8200ND to be delivered. According to Amazon, it should be here later today.


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## dylricho (Apr 10, 2014)

I've been meaning to post here for a while; whoops!

Okay, well the adapter did come and I've been using it for at least 2-3 weeks now, without any problems. What was once 2-3 bars most of the time, is now constantly 5 bars. I have the antennas pointing down (as I'm upstairs, while the router is downstairs), but its orientation doesn't really seem to impact the signal.

It was purchased for a smudge off of £12, so I'd say it was definitely worth it.


-----------

On another note, I've been thinking about my build recently and I've read up that the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO isn't that great? Are sleeve bearings louder or quieter than ball bearings?

Since the case is optimized for silent operation, and since I'm using Fractal's own fans for minimal noise, I think it's only right that I get a quiet but reputable processor cooler as well, without resorting to expensive water cooling.

Aside from the 212 EVO, I was also looking at the Enermax ETS-T40-TB with its "Twister bearing" (whatever that is) and the Be Quiet Shadow Rock 2 with a rifle bearing. I did look into Noctua fans but the color is hideous and I'm not too keen on their prices, so it's between these three.

I am aware that the Fractal Silent R2 fans use hydraulic bearings (which if I'm not mistaken are just fluid dynamic bearings?

I don't really want a sleeve bearing cooler if the noise level is going to be high, but the cheap price and the many, many positive reviews are persuading me to do so (although I know they aren't reviewing my specific needs). If it helps any, the ETS-T40-TB is only £5 more expensive than the 212 EVO, while the Shadow Rock 2 is £10 more expensive.

Many thanks, yet again!


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## Dent1 (Apr 11, 2014)

dylricho said:


> I've been meaning to post here for a while; whoops!
> 
> Okay, well the adapter did come and I've been using it for at least 2-3 weeks now, without any problems. What was once 2-3 bars most of the time, is now constantly 5 bars. I have the antennas pointing down (as I'm upstairs, while the router is downstairs), but its orientation doesn't really seem to impact the signal.
> 
> ...



I don't know much about these specific coolers so it's probably best to look at individual reviews. If noise is your biggest concern I would go with the quietest. The Cooler Master Hyper noise level goes upto 36.0 dbA and pushes the least amount of airflow so I would avoid that. The Enermax is the quietest and cheapest and pushes virtually the same amount of airflow as the Be Quiet Shadow Rock 2.  I'm looking at manufacturer specification which is under best conditions so look at independent reviews too.

Alternatively, you can buy a a passive heatsink like the Zalman FX70 and mount two of your own low decibel fans.  The biggest noise from your PC will be the GPU whilst at 100% load when gaming. You should look into a passive heatsink  for that too.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HS-097-ZA


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## dylricho (Apr 11, 2014)

Dent1 said:


> I don't know much about these specific coolers so it's probably best to look at individual reviews. If noise is your biggest concern I would go with the quietest. The Cooler Master Hyper noise level goes upto 36.0 dbA and pushes the least amount of airflow so I would avoid that. The Enermax is the quietest and cheapest and pushes virtually the same amount of airflow as the Be Quiet Shadow Rock 2.  I'm looking at manufacturer specification which is under best conditions so look at independent reviews too.
> 
> Alternatively, you can buy a a passive heatsink like the Zalman FX70 and mount two of your own low decibel fans.  The biggest noise from your PC will be the GPU whilst at 100% load when gaming. You should look into a passive heatsink  for that too.
> 
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HS-097-ZA



The Enermax cooler sounds like it's too good to be true. Is Enermax a reputable brand? I've never heard of it before. Here is a spreadsheet that I compiled together with all three of my choices, alongside my case fans (blue).

And according to this article, the GPU's noise level reaches 47.7 dBA at full load. Full load will probably be highly unlikely for the tasks I want to do, and when I am gaming, I think only GTA V will tax the GPU enough to require such a high fan RPM.


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## Dent1 (Apr 11, 2014)

dylricho said:


> The Enermax cooler sounds like it's too good to be true. Is Enermax a reputable brand? I've never heard of it before. Here is a spreadsheet that I compiled together with all three of my choices, alongside my case fans (blue).




Enermax I know from PSUs, its reputable brand.  Overclockers Club reviewed it and had only good words about it.

It scored OK in Hardware Secrets.


Overclock 3D gave it a good review too, said its toastier than others but it is certainly one of the quieter ones. They said " full speed of 1800rpm the fan was outputting it's maximum 26dBA". Which is within the manufacturers claims of 16BA to 26BA.

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/enermax_ets_t40/5.htm
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Enermax-ETS-T40-White-Cluster-CPU-Cooler-Review/1783/8
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cases_cooling/enermax_ets-t40_cpu_cooler/4

Saying that if you buy a passive heatsink like the Zalman FX70 or my  Sonic Tower Rev 2 and you can certainly attach a better fan that will be quieter than 26BA at load.



dylricho said:


> And according to this article, the GPU's noise level reaches 47.7 dBA at full load. Full load will probably be highly unlikely for the tasks I want to do, and when I am gaming, I think only GTA V will tax the GPU enough to require such a high fan RPM.



Going by that review the GPU will always be noisy whilst gaming.

30% fan is it's slowest perameter and its already @ 31dBA. That is heading towards loud already.

GPU coolers are not built as well as CPU coolers. A decent CPU cooler at 100% fan is still tolerable. A GPU stock fan at 60% is like a jet engine. The difference between a GPU at 60% and 100% isn't much it will sound loud either way. Notice how its 41.3 dbA at 60% fan and 47dBA at 100% fan.

Also the sensor in the GPU is often programmed to control the fan in ten percent increments. 20%, 30%, 40%, 60%, 80%, 90%, 100%.  So the wind up isn't always gradual. It can go from 20% fan whilst idle on the desktop to 60% jet engine in a few minutes of launching any semi intensive game.

The GPU's fan sensor is often determined by the temperature not only the GPUs usage (although usage will determine the temperature to some degree). At idle your GPU will be around 40-60c before you even launch any games.  Realistically even the most moderately intensive game will send it to over 80c. Most games will bring it to 90c - 110c after a session at that temperature your fan will be loud. Often its programmed something like:  If 3D application launched < 50c  = 30%;  >50c =  50%; >60c<80c = 60%; >80c =100%.

Right now my GPUs at 50c idle.

Edit: Keep in mind a GPU can operate at much higher temperatures than a CPU, so there is little incentive for the manufacturers to equip it with anything half decent.


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## dylricho (Apr 11, 2014)

Dent1 said:


> Enermax I know from PSUs, its reputable brand.  Overclockers Club reviewed it and had only good words about it.
> 
> It scored OK in Hardware Secrets.
> 
> ...




That would make sense. Thanks for the insight!

I'm happy with the noise levels of the selected hardware and I don't particularly feel comfortable going into liquid cooling. I might buy a better CPU cooler in the future, but I think I can live with 40 dBA. The house environment will most likely be louder than that, anyway. 

As long as the parts I've chosen are reputable, I'm happy. Out of interest, would you be able to help me with this thread? 

Many thanks!

*Corrected spreadsheet CFM figures for Enermax cooler; I used the wrong formula!*


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## Dent1 (Apr 11, 2014)

dylricho said:


> That would make sense. Thanks for the insight!
> 
> I'm happy with the noise levels of the selected hardware and I don't particularly feel comfortable going into liquid cooling. I might buy a better CPU cooler in the future, but I think I can live with 40 dBA. The house environment will most likely be louder than that, anyway.
> 
> ...



 40dBA at peak isn't bad, it isn't silent but its definitely audible, you only hear the loudest component. So you won't hear the CPU cooler over the much louder GPU cooler. The best way to test it is to run a benchmark like 3D Mark on high detail. Loop it for 3 rounds. Then ask yourself can I game in this environment

Ok sure.


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