# Voltage Droop Enough to be Concerned With?



## erek (Sep 6, 2021)

Is this enough to be concerned with under CS:GO Loads?








erek said:


> Is this enough to be concerned with under CS:GO Loads?




longer time frame:


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## GerKNG (Sep 6, 2021)

both 3.3 and 5v is below the acceptable range. 12V is fine by itself but we only talk about very light load on the CPU. 
i bet with cinebench or something similar it will drop much more.
is that really a AX1200?


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## ArdWar (Sep 6, 2021)

Your reading overall looks lower than normal. Are you sure the voltage metering is actually properly calibrated?


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## erek (Sep 6, 2021)

GerKNG said:


> both 3.3 and 5v is below the acceptable range. 12V is fine by itself but we only talk about very light load on the CPU.
> i bet with cinebench or something similar it will drop much more.
> is that really a AX1200?
> View attachment 215782





ArdWar said:


> Your reading overall looks lower than normal. Are you sure the voltage metering is actually properly calibrated?


it's a real Corsair AX1200 (from 2011), and i'm using hwmonitor utility to get that output and not a physical device


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## GerKNG (Sep 6, 2021)

erek said:


> it's a real Corsair AX1200 (from 2011), and i'm using hwmonitor utility to get that output and not a physical device


Okay that explains a lot.
2011 is pretty old.

i'd buy a new one (just for good measure) and keep this one for troubleshooting in the future.
but as long as you don't have real problems like shutdowns or RAM/CPU/GPU stability, SSD/HDD dropouts/errors you should be fine


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 6, 2021)

erek said:


> Is this enough to be concerned with





GerKNG said:


> both 3.3 and 5v is below the acceptable range. 12V is fine by itself but we only talk about very light load on the CPU.
> i bet with cinebench or something similar it will drop much more.
> is that really a AX1200?
> View attachment 215782


This. Also remember that thermal sensors in the CPU and on other components operate within certain margins of error, and...


erek said:


> longer time frame:
> 
> View attachment 215781


...these readings are within those margins of error as well as being within ATX specs shown by GerKNG.

You're fine. No need to worry.



GerKNG said:


> 2011 is pretty old.
> 
> i'd buy a new one and keep this one for troubleshooting in the future.


Not going to agree with this however. Old does not mean worn out. If the PSU is giving signs of failing then yes, it's time to upgrade. However, the load that system is putting on that PSU is nowhere near it's max load potential.


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## erek (Sep 6, 2021)

so majorly conflicting reports,

be worried or not? ^^^


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## GerKNG (Sep 6, 2021)

erek said:


> so majorly conflicting reports,
> 
> be worried or not? ^^^


no need to worry about damaging stuff with these voltages.
need to worry about stability and maybe a random PSU death (since it's over a decade old)


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 6, 2021)

erek said:


> so majorly conflicting reports,
> 
> be worried or not? ^^^


Not. Keep an eye on those voltages. If they continue to GET WORSE and droop further than they are now, then yes, it's time to buy a replacement. However, if the voltages are steady and don't jump around any more than they are now, you're fine.


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## erek (Sep 6, 2021)

yeah, currently diagnosing random reboots



erek said:


> yeah, currently diagnosing random reboots






"
The previous system shutdown at 11:23:08 PM on ‎9/‎5/‎2021 was unexpected.




_[_11:33 PM_]_
Dump file creation failed due to error during dump creation.




_[_11:33 PM_]_
The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first. This error could be caused if the system stopped responding, crashed, or lost power unexpectedly.




_[_11:33 PM_]_
Audit events have been dropped by the transport.  0
"


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 6, 2021)

GerKNG said:


> no need to worry about damaging stuff.


This. That PSU will not kill anything if it happens to die.



erek said:


> yeah, currently diagnosing random reboots
> 
> 
> View attachment 215784
> ...


How many times has this happened?


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## erek (Sep 7, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> This. That PSU will not kill anything if it happens to die.
> 
> 
> How many times has this happened?


happens pretty often with Watch_dogs Legion


but recently been happening with cs:go after a new nvidia driver update, the latest


currently diagnosing now


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## ArdWar (Sep 7, 2021)

erek said:


> it's a real Corsair AX1200 (from 2011), and i'm using hwmonitor utility to get that output and not a physical device


BIOS/ACPI voltage measurement is done thru chipset voltage reference, so there's non-zero chance that the reference is off (or conversely, PSU's reference is off).

Anyway looking at your PSU age, I agree that most likely your PSU starting to fail. Most likely the voltage actually dipped far below what the ACPI is reporting. Voltage dip at transient load seems about right behavior for a failing caps, which is about right at 10 years for highly stressed caps.

BTW use HWINFO or something else, lol. HWMonitor is/was known to report whacky voltage, although it seems to be not the case here.


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## erek (Sep 7, 2021)

any recommendations for my particular system as a path forward other than going straight to a Corsair AX1600i?


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 7, 2021)

erek said:


> any recommendations for my particular system as a path forward other than going straight to a Corsair AX1600i?


What area of the world are you located?

The reason I ask is if you're stateside you have a ton of options. Your system doesn't need a 1600w PSU. Even under max load your system will pull 650w to 700w at most. A 1000w will be more than enough.


			https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-Modular-Warranty-Supply-210-GQ-1000-V1/dp/B017ICWP82
		



			https://www.amazon.com/CORSAIR-RM1000x-Certified-Modular-Supply/dp/B015YEI7LK


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## erek (Sep 7, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> What area of the world are you located?


[US]

this is with *cinebench r23*


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 7, 2021)

erek said:


> [US]
> 
> this is with *cinebench r23*
> 
> View attachment 215797


I'm just not seeing a serious problem there. Those dips are within acceptable load-line tolerances. Something to note is your RAM voltages. IF the PSU was the problem, those voltages would dip by an equal percentage as all the other voltages. But that's not happening. The RAM voltages are staying steady. This is a strong indication that PSU is not suspect.


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## ArdWar (Sep 7, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Something to note is your RAM voltages. IF the PSU was the problem, those voltages would dip by an equal percentage as all the other voltages.



Huh, is that how it usually works? I thought that each POL VRM got their own regulator and not simply a ratiometric buck converter.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 7, 2021)

ArdWar said:


> Huh, is that how it usually works? I thought that each POL VRM got their own regulator and not simply a ratiometric buck converter.


RAM power regulation is handled on/by the motherboard, just like all other component power regulation. So if the PSU power delivery is fluctuating, it will fluctuate equally across all power lines, including RAM. The lack of fluctuation in the RAM voltages directly indicates the PSU is not at fault for the problems the OP is having. The problem is likely with another part in the system.


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## ArdWar (Sep 7, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> RAM power regulation is handled on/by the motherboard, just like all other component power regulation.


Even if it is handled by motherboard, wouldn't the VRM still have regulation? So even if the input voltage varies, output voltage shouldn't.

Otherwise an unregulated VRM output voltage will also vary depends on load...


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 7, 2021)

ArdWar said:


> Even if it is handled by motherboard, wouldn't the VRM still have regulation? So even if the input voltage varies, output voltage shouldn't.
> 
> Otherwise an unregulated VRM output voltage will also vary depends on load...


I think you might be misunderstanding how power is supplied through parts in a PC. IF a PSU is failing, VDroop will take place equally across all system components. But the readings that OP has supplied show the opposite occurring. 12v/5v/3.3v are all taking a larger dip than the RAM voltage. This means the the VDroop is happening only with components under load. This behaviour effectively rules out the PSU is the culprit for the problems being displayed.


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## erek (Sep 7, 2021)




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## lexluthermiester (Sep 7, 2021)

erek said:


> View attachment 215823


Check "Don't show this warning again" and continue. HWinfo throws that warning out but very rarely causes problems..


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## ArdWar (Sep 7, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I think you might be misunderstanding how power is supplied through parts in a PC. IF a PSU is failing, VDroop will take place equally across all system components. But the readings that OP has supplied show the opposite occurring. 12v/5v/3.3v are all taking a larger dip than the RAM voltage. This means the the VDroop is happening only with components under load. This behaviour effectively rules out the PSU is the culprit for the problems being displayed.



If the power architecture is done in a way resembling this one here:




then even if the input voltage fluctuates (within certain range) the output voltage should not track the input voltage, or even changing at all. This example is for FPGA, but I guess the general scheme is similar apart for the voltages and which rails the voltages are derived from.

Anyway I never actually measure the behavior of consumer motherboard VRMs. That would be a nice little project to do. It just seems so unintuitive and contrary to common electronic design practices to have VRM output that tracks input voltage outside of certain specific designs.


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## erek (Sep 7, 2021)




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## freeagent (Sep 7, 2021)

That unit could use a recap and refurb. That 3.3 is right in the basement with .288v drop. 5v is there too barely hanging in there.. 12v is dropping nearly .045v too.. still has a bit to go but looks pretty weak in the knees.

10 years is a good life.. I would just replace it.

But before that, I would try giving the main lead to the board a jiggle, rock it around a bit in its socket and see if you can get a better bite. That thing is pretty old and and may have seen a lot of use.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 7, 2021)

ArdWar said:


> If the power architecture is done in a way resembling this one here:
> View attachment 215825
> 
> then even if the input voltage fluctuates (within certain range) the output voltage should not track the input voltage, or even changing at all. This example is for FPGA, but I guess the general scheme is similar apart for the voltages and which rails the voltages are derived from.
> ...


That graphic answers the question. See all the points where wattage loss is indicated?


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## freeagent (Sep 7, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> That graphic answers the question. See all the points where wattage loss is indicated?


No I just looked at the hwinfo screen.. it took me like 15 minutes to write that post as I try to get my kids to go to sleep.. now I have to go lay with them.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 7, 2021)

freeagent said:


> That 3.3 is right in the basement with .288v drop. 5v is there too barely hanging in there.. 12v is dropping nearly .045v too..


Those are all within norms.


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## LordFarquaad (Sep 7, 2021)

You're using software to read hardware values, you will never get a true reading


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## erek (Sep 7, 2021)

freeagent said:


> That unit could use a recap and refurb. That 3.3 is right in the basement with .288v drop. 5v is there too barely hanging in there.. 12v is dropping nearly .045v too.. still has a bit to go but looks pretty weak in the knees.
> 
> 10 years is a good life.. I would just replace it.
> 
> But before that, I would try giving the main lead to the board a jiggle, rock it around a bit in its socket and see if you can get a better bite. That thing is pretty old and and may have seen a lot of use.





lexluthermiester said:


> Those are all within norms.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 7, 2021)

erek said:


> View attachment 215841


Remember...


LordFarquaad said:


> You're using software to read hardware values, you will never get a true reading


...this. The absolute values are not as important as the variances, which are not a concern. Your vdroops are not significant. Your PSU is fine. Your problem is elsewhere.


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## ArdWar (Sep 7, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> That graphic answers the question. See all the points where wattage loss is indicated?



I still don't get your point. The point of regulator (or VRM) is that even if the input voltage changes, the output doesn't. Of course conservation of energy still hold and input current also changes too to compensate.

In this case, _if_ the VDRAM is regulated, of course it wouldn't change even if the supplied voltage from PSU varies. It can't be used as a sign that the PSU is okay or not.
For example looking at my diagram, the VCCINT being steady at 1.2V doesn't automatically mean the 5V supply being steady too. It might as well 12v, with significant ripple, and it'll still work fine. (with worse efficiency, but that's entirely different discussion)


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## erek (Sep 7, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Remember...
> 
> ...this. The absolute values are not as important as the variances, which are not a concern. Your vdroops are not significant. Your PSU is fine. Your problem is elsewhere.


rolled back to Game Ready Driver 471.68  (because 471.96 is when i began noticing the CS:GO random reboots).

also I have a webcam from my previous build on the Intel X99 Platform that was constantly reporting "USB Device Drawing Too Much Power" and causing random system restarts,  I removed this from the equation today also.

(i didn't encounter the random restarts with the webcam on my AMD X570 Platform as far as i can tell, unless now)

---


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 7, 2021)

ArdWar said:


> I still don't get your point. The point of regulator (or VRM) is that even if the input voltage changes, the output doesn't. Of course conservation of energy still hold and input current also changes too to compensate.
> 
> In this case, _if_ the VDRAM is regulated, of course it wouldn't change even if the supplied voltage from PSU varies. It can't be used as a sign that the PSU is okay or not.


Does that same circuit design apply to the CPU power lines?(yes) And what happens when you put a load on the CPU?(vdroop) Can RAM put a similar heavy load on it's VRM?(no) So can the RAM experience a load-level vdroop?(no) Can RAM experience vdroop at all?(yes) How?

If the PSU is weak and unable to provide the power the system requires under load, then the RAM will experience vdroop along with the rest of the system regardless of the VRM regulation employed. This is basic physics.

So in absense of vdroop on the RAM when there is vdroop on the rest of the system, the PSU is clearly supplying the proper power to the system. The PSU is not the problem. The problem is elsewhere. Could be a motherboard instability, could be a RAM instability, or even the GPU. Whatever the problem, the PSU is unlikely the culprit.



erek said:


> rolled back to Game Ready Driver 471.68  (because 471.96 is when i began noticing the CS:GO random reboots).
> 
> also I have a webcam from my previous build on the Intel X99 Platform that was constantly reporting "USB Device Drawing Too Much Power" and causing random system restarts,  I removed this from the equation today also.
> 
> ...


Have you had any crashes since these changes?


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## erek (Sep 7, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Does that same circuit design apply to the CPU power lines?(yes) And what happens when you put a load on the CPU?(vdroop) Can RAM put a similar heavy load on it's VRM?(no) So can the RAM experience a load-level vdroop?(no) Can RAM experience vdroop at all?(yes) How?
> 
> If the PSU is weak and unable to provide the power the system requires unload, then the RAM will experience vdroop along with the rest of the system regardless of the VRM regulation employed. This is basic physics.
> 
> ...


not yet, been playing cs:go for a little bit this night... hoping


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 7, 2021)

erek said:


> not yet, been playing cs:go for a little bit this night... hoping
> 
> View attachment 215842


The drivers might have been your problem. Fair common problem. Keep us posted..


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## erek (Sep 7, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> The drivers might have been your problem. Fair common problem. Keep us posted..


but can't find any similar reports about it


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## ArdWar (Sep 7, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> If the PSU is weak and unable to provide the power the system requires under load, then the RAM will experience vdroop along with the rest of the system regardless of the VRM regulation employed. This is basic physics.


Not if the PSU weakening is manifested as increase in output impedance, PSU rail's point of load voltage would lower slightly depends on the increase of internal impedance.

PSU like this would _not_ revert to constant power mode where voltage will drop until load with highest voltage disconnects, relieving the load.



lexluthermiester said:


> So in absense of vdroop on the RAM when there is vdroop on the rest of the system, the PSU is clearly supplying the proper power to the system. The PSU is not the problem. The problem is elsewhere. Could be a motherboard instability, could be a RAM instability, or even the GPU. Whatever the problem, the PSU is unlikely the culprit.


On the contrary with all the regulated voltages steady while almost all of the PSU voltages drooping I would argue that it's the PSU drooping while the regulators doing the job fine. Point of Load regulators will have sense lines that compensate for load-induced voltage droop.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 7, 2021)

erek said:


> so majorly conflicting reports,
> 
> be worried or not? ^^^


If you're not freezing up or BSODing, no you should stop worrying about it


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## erek (Sep 7, 2021)

eidairaman1 said:


> If you're not freezing up or BSODing, no you should stop worrying about it


was getting random reboots w/ BSODs






"
The previous system shutdown at 11:23:08 PM on ‎9/‎5/‎2021 was unexpected.




_[_11:33 PM_]_
Dump file creation failed due to error during dump creation.




_[_11:33 PM_]_
The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first. This error could be caused if the system stopped responding, crashed, or lost power unexpectedly.




_[_11:33 PM_]_
Audit events have been dropped by the transport. 0
"


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 7, 2021)

erek said:


> but can't find any similar reports about it


That can happen too.


ArdWar said:


> Not if the PSU weakening is manifested as increase in output impedance, PSU rail's point of load voltage would lower slightly depends on the increase of internal impedance.
> 
> PSU like this would _not_ revert to constant power mode where voltage will drop until load with highest voltage disconnects, relieving the load.
> 
> ...


I'm not debating this any further. It's been debated to death elsewhere and if you don't understand, you need to do some research and learning.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 7, 2021)

2011 psu was to this standard from 2007.
ATX12V v2.31









						ATX - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org
				




+5% or -5% are absolute max. PSUs are measured in MTBF(Repair) or MTTF (Replace)



erek said:


> was getting random reboots w/ BSODs
> 
> View attachment 215843
> 
> ...


What Codes were the BSODs?


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## erek (Sep 7, 2021)

eidairaman1 said:


> 2011 psu was to this standard from 2007.
> ATX12V v2.31
> 
> 
> ...


happens too quick to tell what the codes are,  but that's the same exact repeated pattern in the event log


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 7, 2021)

Do you know how to turn off auto restarts of Windows after a crash?



erek said:


> happens too quick to tell what the codes are,  but that's the same exact repeated pattern in the event log


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## erek (Sep 7, 2021)

eidairaman1 said:


> Do you know how to turn off auto restarts of Windows after a crash?








*WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR*

This is while playing Watch_Dogs Legion

@lexluthermiester 

Here's what HWiNFO64 Logs look like leading up to the Crash:


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 7, 2021)

erek said:


> WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR


Oh now that's a thing! I have seen this when dialing in an OC. Are you OCing anything? Gotta ask.. I've also seen that error when drivers are throwing fits..


erek said:


> This is while playing Watch_Dogs Legion


Does this happen in any other games?


erek said:


> @lexluthermiester
> 
> Here's what HWiNFO64 Logs look like leading up to the Crash:


Those charts look ok to me. Seems like you've got a ton of load going on, but you have a 3090 AND a Ryaen 9 5950X, so that is expected.


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## erek (Sep 7, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Oh now that's a thing! I have seen this when dialing in an OC. Are you OCing anything? Gotta ask.. I've also seen that error when drivers are throwing fits..
> 
> Does this happen in any other games?
> 
> Those charts look ok to me. Seems like you've got a ton of load going on, but you have a 3090 AND a Ryaen 9 5950X, so that is expected.


all stock, no OC.

no other games,


---

already on the hunt for a new PSU.  Struggling because of all the problems with RTX 30 series:

Top Tier PSU:

_• *Seasonic |* Focus [OneSeasonic refreshes] GX / GM / PX / SGX - Prime *[8]* GX (<=750W / =>1000W) / (Ultra) Gold =>1000W / PX =>1000W / (Ultra) Platinum =>1000W / TX =>1000W / (Ultra) Titanium =>1000W / PRIME Snow Silent Gold [550W] - Connect_

_*[8]* Seasonic PRIME based units experience shutdowns with RTX3080/3090 (and possibly RX6900 XT) GPUs, especially ones with unlocked power limit like FE and ASUS Strix. It is recommended, if going with such units, to overprovision wattage, 1kW for RTX3080 and 1.2kW for RTX3090, or power-limit the GPU, or performing a 'dirty' fix of disconnecting a pin of 12V V-sense wire from PSU-side connector of 24-pin motherboard cable (courtesy of Jonny Guru). Units based on post-2018 revisions of Seasonic Focus platform and majority of units by other OEMs are not affected._


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 7, 2021)

erek said:


> all stock, no OC.
> 
> no other games,
> 
> ...


My arguments have been to troubleshoot the problem and make a choice based on evidence & merit. I'd hate to see you spend a chunk of money on a new PSU only for the problem to persist after it arrived.

That said, what's your budget? Let's see if we can find you a new PSU that will last you another 10 years!


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## erek (Sep 7, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> My arguments have been to troubleshoot the problem and make a choice based on evidence & merit. I'd hate to see you spend a chunk of money on a new PSU only for the problem to persist after it arrived.
> 
> That said, what's your budget? Let's see if we can find you a new PSU that will last you another 10 years!


due to the concerns over the Seasonic units, it's hard to trust much

Tempted to just go with this:









						Corsair AX1600i 1600W Digital ATX Power Supply  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Corsair AX1600i 1600W Digital ATX Power Supply at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 7, 2021)

erek said:


> Tempted to just go with this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good grief! $750 for a PSU? Damn... Then again, you have a 3090 and 5950X...

Let's shop around.
Found the following;
$680 shipped








						Corsair AX1600i 1600W Digital ATX Power Supply for sale online | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Corsair AX1600i 1600W Digital ATX Power Supply at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				



Same unit, better price, good seller.

I've never seen an EVGA PSU go bad.








						EVGA SuperNOVA 1200 P2 1200W 80 Plus Platinum Power Supply - Black  | eBay
					

Total 1200W @ +50C. Rail +3.3V +5V +12V +5Vsb -12V. Max Output 20A 20A 99.9A 2.5A 0.5A. AC Input 100 - 240 VAC, 15A, 50 - 60 Hz. AC Power 1x 1500mm (m). POWER SPECS. Fan Size / Bearing 140mm Double Ball Bearing.



					www.ebay.com
				



$590 shipped 
The SuperNova line is top tier and will not fail you.


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## erek (Sep 7, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Good grief! $750 for a PSU? Damn... Then again, you have a 3090 and 5950X...
> 
> Let's shop around.
> Found the following;
> ...


this is extremely frustrating because if you google "ryzn" "whea_uncorrectable_error" you'll see there's rumors that there's a ton of bad silicon going around and the only recourse is a RMA... well i don't have a receipt for my chip cause i bought it second hand on a forum...


another rodeo with this AMD Ryzen build... first was insanity troubleshooting Bad Ram modules....  took over a month to figure out.




			https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/game-ready-drivers/13/413988/bsod-with-wheauncorrectableerror-during-gaming-on-/?topicPage=12


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 7, 2021)

erek said:


> this is extremely frustrating because if you google "ryzn" "whea_uncorrectable_error" you'll see there's rumors that there's a ton of bad silicon going around and the only recourse is a RMA... well i don't have a receipt for my chip cause i bought it second hand on a forum...


I feel your pain. Have you tried your previous GPU and CPU? IIRC, you had a Ryzen 3600 didn't you?



erek said:


> another rodeo with this AMD Ryzen build... first was insanity troubleshooting Bad Ram modules.... took over a month to figure out.


What motherboard do you have? Have you considered that you might have an iffy mobo?



erek said:


> https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/game-ready-drivers/13/413988/bsod-with-wheauncorrectableerror-during-gaming-on-/?topicPage=12


This is similar to what I was talking about earlier. In that first example, the PSU swap did nothing for them...


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## erek (Sep 7, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I feel your pain. Have you tried your previous GPU and CPU? IIRC, you had a Ryzen 3600 didn't you?
> 
> 
> What motherboard do you have? Have you considered that you might have an iffy mobo?
> ...


honestly the entire ryzen experience has been unstable for me.  i haven't had a single 100% stable platform on it.

the 3950X that i had was throwing WHEA Logger errors and i had no idea until using event viewer during troubleshooting the Bad Ram scenario and also a bad Gigabyte VISION 3090.

my one friend who bought the 3950X also had issues until he swapped the PSU to a Seasonic E850 or something.


problem is as you see there's people saying that the PSU swap didn't correct their issue.


i have no clue at this point anymore, but it seems the only company producing good Silicon is Intel. 


I had a nightmare of an experience between G.Skill's Ram, Gigabyte's VISION 3090, and two Ryzen CPUs within the last few years.


---


System NameBeaver's BuildProcessorAMD Ryzen 9 5950XMotherboardAsus ROG Crosshair VIII Hero (WI-FI) - X570CoolingCorsair H115i RGB PLATINUM 97 CFM LiquidMemoryG.Skill Trident Z Neo 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory - 16-19-19-39Video Card(s)NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Founders EditionStorageInland 1TB NVMe M.2 (Phison E12) / Samsung 950 Pro M.2 NVMe 512G / WD Black 6TB - 256M cacheDisplay(s)LG - 27UD68-P 27.0" 3840x2160 60 Hz - FreeSync 1 / IPSCaseFractal Design Design Define R6 USB-CAudio Device(s)Focusrite 2i4 USB Audio InterfacePower SupplyCorsair AX1200MouseLogitech G3KeyboardLogitech K120SoftwareMicrosoft Windows 10 Pro x64


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## mtcn77 (Sep 7, 2021)

I consider vdroop is almost always a tuning issue in cooling and overclock setup. If vdroop is affecting your stability, you must be having resistance droop due to temperature elevation(Poole Frenkel Effect) and further compromises by vboost LLC only makes it worse. The cooling and performance should have a normalization trend, not fluctuation, as temperature ramps up. You can do it both ways, smart or practical either by looking at the temperature trend to see the fluctuations stop, or checking stability - they both meet at the same trend.
If you can stop using LLC and make a precise overclock, your cpu will start behaving like E series and any further cooling modifications will expand your overclock tune.


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## ThrashZone (Sep 7, 2021)

erek said:


> honestly the entire ryzen experience has been unstable for me.  i haven't had a single 100% stable platform on it.
> 
> the 3950X that i had was throwing WHEA Logger errors and i had no idea until using event viewer during troubleshooting the Bad Ram scenario and also a bad Gigabyte VISION 3090.
> 
> ...


Hi,
Well amd hedt plus a 3090 using an 850w psu is cutting it too close and likely only good for stock cpu/ gpu clocks

1200p2 is barely good on a 9940x and titan Xp lol not sure a 3090 plus oc'ing would work out but I'm sure I'd have a better chance than the your setup.

I don't get the penny pinching frankly a 3090/ 5950x is worth a little better psu buddy.


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## freeagent (Sep 7, 2021)

Even if he is using software to read, I bet if he used hardware to read it wouldn’t be too far off.


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## ThrashZone (Sep 7, 2021)

Hi,
Anyone pick up which region the op is in ?

USA biggest issue might be wall outlet is messed up/ loose connections or has too many other outlets on the same circuit.
Or simply circuit needs a 20amp breaker.


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## Shrek (Sep 7, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Even if he is using software to read, I bet if he used hardware to read it wouldn’t be too far off.



On JonnyGuru most people did not trust the software readings; best to use a DMM (Digital Multi Meter)


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## freeagent (Sep 7, 2021)

I have seen JG say you can trust certain readings from Corsair psus, probably something a little more modern though.


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## Final_Fighter (Sep 7, 2021)

whea errors are overclock related but its possible the motherboard bios has funked up default voltages. i would start by getting your vddp, ccd, iod, vsoc voltages set and go from there. @tabascosauz @FilipM @freeagent @Taraquin have done quite a bit of overclocking and stability tweaks. i only bring this up because whea errors for me have never been assoicated with pbo or cpu overclocking but memory. the 5000 series chips seem to be voltage sensitive and too high of voltage can cause trouble too. also check out Share your AIDA 64 cache and memory benchmark here. start at page 56 and go on to about 60.


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## freeagent (Sep 7, 2021)

I had a short on a molex and it wreaked havoc with my system, known good overclocks were no good.. sounds strange.. but it’s true


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 7, 2021)

I would qr code read that thing to get tge hex address


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## erek (Sep 7, 2021)

No over clocking here.  Just XMP profile 

I have memtest86 booted from usb running now while I go run some errands. 1 pass has already successfully completed


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 7, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> On JonnyGuru most people did not trust the software readings; best to use a DMM (Digital Multi Meter)


They can be useful within the context of knowing that they will never be perfectly accurate. If one accepts that they are going to be "ballpark" type of readings and you simply watch the variations over time, they can be useful.



erek said:


> No over clocking here.  Just XMP profile
> 
> I have memtest86 booted from usb running now while I go run some errands. 1 pass has already successfully completed


If you already have one pass no errors, chances are you're fine and it's not your RAM..


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## Final_Fighter (Sep 7, 2021)

erek said:


> No over clocking here.  Just XMP profile
> 
> I have memtest86 booted from usb running now while I go run some errands. 1 pass has already successfully completed


xmp is overclocking. try running the voltages i listed. can you download ZenTimings and post a screenshot up? it will let me see what your have for volts.


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## erek (Sep 7, 2021)

MemTest86 is fine:





@Final_Fighter 

Here:


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## Final_Fighter (Sep 7, 2021)

erek said:


> MemTest86 is fine:
> 
> View attachment 215931
> 
> ...


voltages look alright. if you want to you can tweak them a little for stability. i only mention this even after having found my ram stable in memtest i would still get whea errors. its because the voltages listed also play a part overall in how the proc works. if you feel its worth exploring try these values set VSOC 1.125: VDDP .950: CCD 1.05. IOD 1.075.

good luck.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 7, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> They can be useful within the context of knowing that they will never be perfectly accurate. If one accepts that they are going to be "ballpark" type of readings and you simply watch the variations over time, they can be useful.
> 
> 
> If you already have one pass no errors, chances are you're fine and it's not your RAM..


Id run 10 passes...


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## erek (Sep 7, 2021)

i'm investing in the future of the build anyhow, so even if buying this PSU doesn't resolve the issue it is a solid component for the future in my opinion.









						Super Flower Leadex Titanium 1600W 80+ Titanium, 10 Years Warranty,  ECO Fanless & Silent Mode, Full Modular Power Supply, Dual Ball Bearing Fan, SF-1600F14HT - Newegg.com
					

Buy Super Flower Leadex Titanium 1600W 80+ Titanium, 10 Years Warranty,  ECO Fanless & Silent Mode, Full Modular Power Supply, Dual Ball Bearing Fan, SF-1600F14HT with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				








"*Overall Review:* My PC with just a single RTX 3090 and Ryzen 9 3900X (because I've been unable to get the 5900X...) was turning off under load. As it turns out, the Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium 850W can't handle this single GPU system! So I went all out and got this because I knew it'd last a very long time. Ridiculous that I need a four digit wattage power supply for a single GPU system, but this PSU resolved my issues. So the bottom line is, if you need power, get Super Flower. Or EVGA's Super Flower based PSUs. Whichever is available and more cost effective"

--

Will run more MemTest86 Tests also

check out all these other issues people are having with the 471.96 drivers: (@lexluthermiester )



			https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/game-ready-drivers/13/466883/geforce-47196-grd-feedback-thread-released-83121/


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 8, 2021)

erek said:


> i'm investing in the future of the build anyhow, so even if buying this PSU doesn't resolve the issue it is a solid component for the future in my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seasonic or Superflower are my suggestions or a Vendor who uses their OEM design


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 8, 2021)

erek said:


> i'm investing in the future of the build anyhow, so even if buying this PSU doesn't resolve the issue it is a solid component for the future in my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice choice. Good price for that level of wattage and functionality!


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## erek (Sep 8, 2021)

comp just BSOD w/ WHEA_UNRECOVERABLE_ERROR in GTA Online after i disabled V-Sync


"The computer has rebooted from a bugcheck.  The bugcheck was: 0x00000124 (0x0000000000000010, 0xffffae8f21598028, 0xffffae8f0c81db5c, 0xffffae8f0c8df1a0). "


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 8, 2021)

erek said:


> comp just BSOD w/ WHEA_UNRECOVERABLE_ERROR in GTA Online after i disabled V-Sync
> 
> 
> "The computer has rebooted from a bugcheck.  The bugcheck was: 0x00000124 (0x0000000000000010, 0xffffae8f21598028, 0xffffae8f0c81db5c, 0xffffae8f0c8df1a0). "


Now we are getting somewhere,you see the bsod, scan the qr code to get the hex address.

I would use this link and get the tools they mention








						Blue screen STOP: 0x00000124 (0x0000000000000000, 0xFFFFFA8007FEE028, 0X00000000BE200000, 0x000000000005110A)
					

original title: Windows 7 BSOD I just received a BSOD during gaming from my custom build PC after a full month of usage and this is the error code i got: STOP: 0x00000124 (0x0000000000000000,



					answers.microsoft.com
				









						0x00000124 (0x0000000000000010, 0xffffae8f21598028, 0xffffae8f0c81db5c, 0xffffae8f0c8df1a0) at DuckDuckGo
					

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.




					duckduckgo.com


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## erek (Sep 8, 2021)

eidairaman1 said:


> Now we are getting somewhere,you see the bsod, scan the qr code to get the hex address.
> 
> I would use this link and get the tools they mention
> 
> ...


QR Code = generic page

---

still drooping pretty bad even without the XMP




_[_12:32 AM_]_


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 8, 2021)

If you havent, enable load line calibration.


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## erek (Sep 8, 2021)

eidairaman1 said:


> If you havent, enable load line calibration.


so even with XMP disabled i crashed out in GTA Online without V-Sync enabled, MemTest86 still reporting fine... Really hoping this points to the PSU

"The computer has rebooted from a bugcheck.  The bugcheck was: 0x00000124 (0x0000000000000010, 0xffffba06e88e5028, 0xffffba06d08a792c, 0xffffba06d09101a0). A dump was saved in: C:\WINDOWS\MEMORY.DMP. Report Id: 011fcbf6-758a-4cc9-b990-08cb0f2e53da."

@eidairaman1 @lexluthermiester 

dropped my GPU Power Limit down to 70% or ~250 Watts Max and it's stable in GTA Online w/o V-Sync.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 8, 2021)

erek said:


> _[_12:32 AM_]_
> 
> View attachment 215958


This still says the PSU is fine. But you've got another coming, so we'll see.


erek said:


> so even with XMP disabled i crashed out in GTA Online without V-Sync enabled, MemTest86 still reporting fine


The RAM is not the problem.


erek said:


> @eidairaman1 @lexluthermiester
> 
> dropped my GPU Power Limit down to 70% or ~250 Watts Max and it's stable in GTA Online w/o V-Sync.
> 
> View attachment 216001


Now THAT is interesting! I have a theory, but I'm going to hold off until you get your new PSU and test it.


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## erek (Sep 8, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> This still says the PSU is fine. But you've got another coming, so we'll see.


wouldn't it be more fine due to the reduced load?


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 8, 2021)

erek said:


> wouldn't it be more fine due to the reduced load?


Like I said, we'll see when you new one arrives.


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## erek (Sep 8, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Like I said, we'll see when you new one arrives.


New PSU successfully transplanted in today!

So far she's actually stable in-game GTA Online w/o V-Sync and also XMP Profile back in the mix and stock Power Limits on the GPU:


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## freeagent (Sep 8, 2021)

Look at that.. very nice.


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## erek (Sep 8, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Look at that.. very nice.


seems solid so far, here's after some more time going by in game


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## freeagent (Sep 8, 2021)

Must be nice to see your vdimm! This board and my Z77 OC Formula don’t show it. It’s very odd. My last few boards did.

So.. when your PSU starts to go, I have noticed the 3.3 and 5v tend to go first, those two will drag the12v down. I am positive 3.3 and 5 feed the CPU. Maybe not both, but one of them. Or I could be completely full of shit. I just thought it was odd. I saw it on a Corsair and  a Thermaltake.


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## erek (Sep 8, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Must be nice to see your vdimm! This board and my Z77 OC Formula don’t show it. It’s very odd. My last few boards did.
> 
> So.. when your PSU starts to go, I have noticed the 3.3 and 5v tend to go first, those two will drag the12v down. I am positive 3.3 and 5 feed the CPU. Maybe not both, but one of them. Or I could be completely full of shit. I just thought it was odd. I saw it on a Corsair and  a Thermaltake.


Looking to test Watch_Dogs Legion now.   Also wondering if now I can finally stably max out my GPU Power Limit @ 400 Watts +114%.

can't even get into the game rn


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 8, 2021)

erek said:


> seems solid so far, here's after some more time going by in game
> 
> View attachment 216074


Those are definite improvements! Nice!



erek said:


> can't even get into the game rn
> 
> View attachment 216083


Yet another reason why I do not tolerate DRM. Ever.


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## erek (Sep 9, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Those are definite improvements! Nice!
> 
> 
> Yet another reason why I do not tolerate DRM. Ever.


Opinion?









						EVGA SuperNOVA G6 1000 W Review - Turning to Seasonic
					

The EVGA 1000 G6 is worthy of your attention if you seek a powerful, compact power supply for a potent gaming system. It uses a proven Seasonic platform that received some upgrades to match the competition. With a better price, it will give competing offerings in this category a hard time.




					www.techpowerup.com


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 9, 2021)

erek said:


> Opinion?


Which one?


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## erek (Sep 9, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Which one?


Noticed TPU had a new PSU review up on the main page today and was curious what you thought of it.   seems to be a Seasonic Platform?


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 9, 2021)

erek said:


> so even with XMP disabled i crashed out in GTA Online without V-Sync enabled, MemTest86 still reporting fine... Really hoping this points to the PSU
> 
> "The computer has rebooted from a bugcheck.  The bugcheck was: 0x00000124 (0x0000000000000010, 0xffffba06e88e5028, 0xffffba06d08a792c, 0xffffba06d09101a0). A dump was saved in: C:\WINDOWS\MEMORY.DMP. Report Id: 011fcbf6-758a-4cc9-b990-08cb0f2e53da."
> 
> ...



Since you have the new psu, did you readjust power limit back to stock?


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## erek (Sep 9, 2021)

eidairaman1 said:


> Since you have the new psu, did you readjust power limit back to stock?


yes, going for +114% next (400 Watt)


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 9, 2021)

erek said:


> Noticed TPU had a new PSU review up on the main page today and was curious what you thought of it.   seems to be a Seasonic Platform?



I have a X1250(XM2), flawless.

Seasonic and Superflower are Top Tier

If any PSU is worth repairing after 10 years and is out of warranty it would be those 2


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 9, 2021)

erek said:


> EVGA SuperNOVA G6 1000 W Review - Turning to Seasonic
> 
> 
> The EVGA 1000 G6 is worthy of your attention if you seek a powerful, compact power supply for a potent gaming system. It uses a proven Seasonic platform that received some upgrades to match the competition. With a better price, it will give competing offerings in this category a hard time.
> ...


Just looked it over. Seems like a winner.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 9, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Just looked it over. Seems like a winner.


SeaSonic Bronze have been known to be better than many who claim they are gold or silver...


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## erek (Sep 9, 2021)

it's a lot happier now!  can even do +114% (400 Watts) Power Limit on the GPU stable now:


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 9, 2021)

erek said:


> it's a lot happier now!  can even do +114% (400 Watts) Power Limit on the GPU stable now:
> 
> View attachment 216093


Problem solved.


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## erek (Sep 9, 2021)

eidairaman1 said:


> Problem solved.


still need to validate Watch_Dogs Legion, but Cyberpunk 2077 was good


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 9, 2021)

erek said:


> still need to validate Watch_Dogs Legion, but Cyberpunk 2077 was good


GTAV?



erek said:


> it's a lot happier now!  can even do +114% (400 Watts) Power Limit on the GPU stable now:
> 
> View attachment 216093


Ok, I was wrong. It was the PSU. The symptoms pointed to something else.


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## erek (Sep 9, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> GTAV?
> 
> 
> Ok, I was wrong. It was the PSU. The symptoms pointed to something else.


yep, playing GTA Online w/o V-Sync, +114% Power Limit and can't believe it's stable...

hopefully i can get over my anxiety now and trust it
instead just anticipating the next crash


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 9, 2021)

erek said:


> yep, playing GTA Online w/o V-Sync, +114% Power Limit and can't believe it's stable...
> 
> hopefully i can get over my anxiety now and trust it
> instead just anticipating the next crash


Ok immediate change from the last time, psu resolved it.


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## erek (Sep 9, 2021)

eidairaman1 said:


> Ok immediate change from the last time, psu resolved it.







This is running while i've been gaming for awhile now:


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## erek (May 23, 2022)

The decade of ignoring your gaming PC's power supply is over | Digital Trends
					

For around a decade, there hasn't been a reason to go beyond a 750W power supply in a gaming PC. But that's changing, and it's important to upgrade soon.




					www.digitaltrends.com
				




This is relevant to my experience.   Thought my Corsair AX1200 from 2011 wouldn't have a problem, but it was THE Main Problem after all these years.


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## lexluthermiester (Oct 10, 2022)

erek said:


> The decade of ignoring your gaming PC's power supply is over | Digital Trends
> 
> 
> For around a decade, there hasn't been a reason to go beyond a 750W power supply in a gaming PC. But that's changing, and it's important to upgrade soon.
> ...


Why would this post receive a warning? That's kinda silly. Anyway...

How's you PSU holding up?


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## erek (Oct 10, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Why would this post receive a warning? That's kinda silly. Anyway...
> 
> How's you PSU holding up?


Didn’t even know I was issued a warning ⛔️.  The SuperFlower PSU has been awesome


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## lexluthermiester (Oct 10, 2022)

erek said:


> Didn’t even know I was issued a warning ⛔️.  The SuperFlower PSU has been awesome


Cool. So continuing the discussion we where having in the other thread, are you thinking about an upgrade to a 4000 series RTX card? If so, your PSU will be ok one raw power. My only concern for you would be the 12pin adapter cable.


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## delshay (Oct 10, 2022)

Am glad this thread pop-up as I was looking into why the voltage fluctuate at idle. If it's doing nothing, then i don't expect any movement at all on the main rails. Anyway, I've been running an experiment on my PSU for the best part of around 4 - 5 years now.  ..It has dual 38000uf sitting on the 12v rail. No matter if it's idle or full load on the GPU/CPU at the same time, the voltage reading via software does not move. I only just notice this in the last two days. Absolutely locked does not move. I've just added a spare 38000uf to the 5v rail. It still moves around a bit, but I have some new experimental parts on the way which should arrive late next month, so you will see some new hardware mods in the Ghetto Thread at TECHPOWERUP late in November.


DO NOT COPY WHAT I HAVE DONE TO MY PSU (EXPERIMENTAL CAPACITORS)

Anyway you can see my 12v rail in screenshot below it does not move even under full GPU/CPU LOAD.    ..That will teach the 12v rail from moving. Need to fix 5v & 3.3v from moving.


----------

