# Does the Turn On / Off button work? (9.4)



## MToze (Mar 6, 2022)

Hello, what is the Turn On / Off button supposed to do? The one at the bottom of the main window and from the system tray right click menu.

I thought it would enable or disable ThrottleStop as a whole, but it just doesn't seem to do anything.

Even with the button off, changing profiles shows CPU and voltage values change, and they're being applied.

I looked up the patch notes for the latest beta version and there's no mention of this being fixed.

Am I misunderstanding what this button is supposed to do?

Thank you.


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## unclewebb (Mar 6, 2022)

MToze said:


> misunderstanding


The Turn On button controls the Set Multiplier and Clock Modulation functions and that is all. Modern computers rarely use these two functions. That button will likely be removed in the future.



MToze said:


> no mention of this being fixed.


There is nothing to fix if the button is doing exactly what it was designed to do.

If you want to use ThrottleStop to reset your voltages to zero then you will have to create a profile in ThrottleStop to do this. In the FIVR window check the Unlock Adjustable Voltage box and set all of the offset voltages to 0.0. When you switch to this profile, your voltage offset will be reset to zero and the Offset column in the monitoring table should show +0.0000 from top to bottom.


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## MToze (Mar 6, 2022)

Thanks for replying.

I understand now.

I did look into making a profile as if ThrottleStop was fully disabled, except for monitoring the temperatures.
But I noticed that switching profiles doesn't enable or disable Speed Shift, it only changes its values.
Not sure if it happens with other settings.


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## unclewebb (Mar 6, 2022)

MToze said:


> doesn't enable or disable Speed Shift


Once Speed Shift is enabled within the processor, it cannot be disabled unless you reboot. If you see *SST *in green on the main screen, Speed Shift is enabled and cannot be disabled. 

You can change the Speed Shift EPP value for each profile. If you are going to use the Speed Shift EPP setting then you should use it in all profiles or do not use it in any profiles. It gets too confusing and inconsistent if you only want to check Speed Shift EPP in some of your profiles. That is why this check box is the same for each profile.


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## MToze (Mar 6, 2022)

Didn't know that. Thanks for the info!

The checkbox being the same for each profile wasn't very clear to me since it's next to so many other settings.

Do processors have a default Speed Shift EPP value? How can I find out mine?


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## unclewebb (Mar 6, 2022)

MToze said:


> Do processors have a default Speed Shift EPP value?


Windows 10 controls the EPP value on most recent computers. To find out what values your computer uses, clear the Speed Shift EPP box in ThrottleStop. Use ThrottleStop to switch between different Windows power plans; High Performance, Balanced and Power Saver.





After you make a change, open the FIVR window, look in the monitoring table and it will show you what Speed Shift EPP value the CPU is presently using.





The EPP value that Windows uses can also change depending on if your computer is plugged in or not. 

Most laptops only use the Windows Balanced power plan. They have a slider in the system tray that you can change between Better Performance, Best Performance, etc.
This slider can also change the EPP value. Sometimes the EPP value does not change. That would confirm that there is zero difference between some of these settings. 

My desktop computer uses these default EPP values.

High Performance
EPP = 0

Balanced
EPP = 84

Power Saver
EPP = 153 

I prefer not to check the Speed Shift EPP box in ThrottleStop. I let Windows manage this setting. If you like to see your CPU slow down when lightly loaded, use a power plan that sets EPP to 84. Setting EPP higher than that can reduce maximum performance. When plugged in, the power savings is minimal so I use the Windows High Performance power plan which should set EPP to 0. 

Prebuilt computers might use completely difference default EPP settings.


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## MToze (Mar 6, 2022)

Thank you for this. Disabling Speed Shift solved the crashes and BSODs I was having with some games.

I did notice that ThrottleStop sometimes isn't able to switch between power configs that are linked to profiles, especially if it goes between a Windows default one and a user created one. But I'll just use the Windows ones for now.


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## unclewebb (Mar 7, 2022)

MToze said:


> Disabling Speed Shift


Did you disable Speed Shift in the BIOS or do you mean you are using the High Performance power plan with Speed Shift EPP set to 0?
If ThrottleStop shows *SST* in green, Speed Shift is enabled. 



MToze said:


> solved the crashes and BSODs


Are you using ThrottleStop to undervolt your CPU? If your computer is crashing, it is usually because the undervolt is too much. Most CPUs need more voltage to be stable when using the Balanced power plan because the CPU speed is constantly jumping up and down.  



MToze said:


> ThrottleStop sometimes isn't able to switch between power configs


Did you push the *+* button to add your user Windows power plans to ThrottleStop? You have to add them to ThrottleStop so ThrottleStop can access them.
I added the Ultimate Performance power plan to ThrottleStop and I do not have any trouble using ThrottleStop to access this power plan or any of the default Windows power plans.


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## MToze (Mar 8, 2022)

unclewebb said:


> Did you disable Speed Shift in the BIOS or do you mean you are using the High Performance power plan with Speed Shift EPP set to 0?


I unticked the Speed Shift EPP option in ThrottleStop to allow the processor to use its own values, without changing anything in the BIOS (which I'm assuming had it enabled by default).



unclewebb said:


> Are you using ThrottleStop to undervolt your CPU?


Only on my 3rd profile, which I always switch out of when playing games. My 1st and 2nd profile don't do anything besides changing the power plan.

I think Dragon Center is what's crashing my PC... I'm still troubleshooting this.
I might just set my fan speeds and forget about it. Shame that I won't have anything to check on my fan's rpms.
Any plans on adding this info to ThrottleStop? 



unclewebb said:


> Did you push the *+* button to add your user Windows power plans to ThrottleStop? You have to add them to ThrottleStop so ThrottleStop can access them.


I did, that's how I noticed that power plans wouldn't change if I would go between a profile that used a Windows default plan and a user-made plan.


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## unclewebb (Mar 8, 2022)

MToze said:


> to allow the processor to use its own values


Just so you know, when Speed Shift EPP is not checked in ThrottleStop, the EPP values are determined by the Windows power plan that you are using. The BIOS has no say for EPP.



MToze said:


> Dragon Center


It is definitely possible that Dragon Center is interfering with ThrottleStop. It is usually not a good idea to have two different programs trying to control the same CPU at the same time.

I do not see any fan rpm reporting or control in ThrottleStop's future.



MToze said:


> that's how I noticed that power plans wouldn't change


Try opening up the Windows Power Options window to watch for any power plan changes. Make sure the power plan box in ThrottleStop is checked for each of your profiles.
When I use ThrottleStop to switch power plans, the changes show up immediately in Power Options.

When you select one of your Custom power plans in ThrottleStop what does Power Options show? Does it not change? Did you do anything unusual like create some custom Windows power plans and then delete them? This works correctly for me and no one else has ever mentioned any issues. If this does not work on your computer it might be a bug. I am not sure how to recreate or fix it.

If you are still having problems, try exiting ThrottleStop, delete the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file, and restart ThrottleStop so it can create a new one. Click on the big *+* sign again to add your custom Windows power plans into ThrottleStop and see if that fixes things.





In your ThrottleStop directory, after you push the + button to add profiles to ThrottleStop, there should be a file called WinPowerPlans.txt
Can you attach that file to your next post so I can have a look? That file should include any of your custom Windows power plans.


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## MToze (Mar 9, 2022)

unclewebb said:


> I do not see any fan rpm reporting or control in ThrottleStop's future.



That's a shame, but understandable. It's just that ThrottleStop is the only program right now that I can use to check on my temps without being inconvenient (Dragon Center), that doesn't force my dGPU to be on all the time (Argus Monitor), or that actually works (MSI Center).




unclewebb said:


> Did you do anything unusual like create some custom Windows power plans and then delete them?



Yeah, something like that.
My Windows 10 installation almost had no power plans when I reverted to the old system tray battery indicator.
I used a command to re-add the power plans, but for some reason, only 5 of them can be shown at a time in the Power Options window.

If more than 5 appear in the list, changing them through the tray indicator or ThrottleStop, they become hidden in the Power Options window and the tray indicator.

This limit happens with the default power plans, not with user made ones.
So then I ended up making copies of all of them. 

I've deleted them already, but if I recall, the user made plans were named very closely to the default ones (default="High performance", user made="High *P*erformance").
Maybe ThrottleStop didn't like that?

I still have the 5 plan limit, so I duplicated them again, but now with "(copy)" at the end of their name.
It seems that deleting the ini file and adding them again in ThrottleStop fixed the issue, despite that last ")" in "(copy") in their names not showing up in the dropdown list.




unclewebb said:


> Are you using ThrottleStop to undervolt your CPU? If your computer is crashing, it is usually because the undervolt is too much. Most CPUs need more voltage to be stable when using the Balanced power plan because the CPU speed is constantly jumping up and down.



Meanwhile, I'm still troubleshooting this. It does seem that the crash is caused by ThrottleStop.
Even changing to an unmodified profile and closing the program won't stop the game from crashing or causing a BSOD.

The power plan I'm using to undervolt is the Power Saver one, everything else isn't (or shouldn't be) being modified by ThrottleStop.


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## unclewebb (Mar 9, 2022)

MToze said:


> only 5 of them can be shown at a time in the Power Options window


That sounds like a Microsoft limitation. The hiding of some power plans, including the default High performance power plan, is another feature thanks to Microsoft. If you duplicate a plan that has this hidden attribute, the duplicated plan will likely also be hidden anytime you are not using it. When you push the *+* button in ThrottleStop, it can only add to ThrottleStop power plans that are not hidden. If you have multiple hidden plans, try accessing them one by one, push the *+* button and then manually switch to another hidden power plan and try pushing the *+* button again. I have no idea if you can use this trick to add all of your available plans to ThrottleStop. It might work.  



MToze said:


> (default="High performance", user made="High *P*erformance")


It is probably not a good idea to be doing stuff like that. Use some other naming convention like HI Performance so it is obvious to you, Windows and to ThrottleStop.



MToze said:


> The power plan I'm using to undervolt is the Power Saver one


If you are using ThrottleStop to undervolt on one of your power plans then you need to use ThrottleStop to set the voltage for all of your power plans. If you want a power plan not to use any voltage offset then you specifically have to tell ThrottleStop to do that. Check the Unlock Adjustable Voltage box and set the offset to 0.0 for each plan. That way when you use ThrottleStop to switch between different profiles, it will know what to do. When this box is not checked, ThrottleStop leaves the voltage as is and does not try to make any changes to it.

You can watch the FIVR monitoring table to see what offset voltages are being used. Switch profiles and double check to make sure the voltage is set correctly. Exiting ThrottleStop does not reset the voltages. It leaves everything as is. It is up to you to reset the voltages, if that is what you want, before you exit ThrottleStop. 



MToze said:


> the crash is caused by ThrottleStop


Any crashes are likely being caused by voltage settings that are not 100% stable. What undervolt settings are you trying to use? What CPU do you have? Have you done any partial load stability testing? That can help uncover voltage issues. Can you run 4 or 8 threads of the TS Bench test with 0 errors reported when your voltage is reduced?


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## MToze (Mar 9, 2022)

unclewebb said:


> If you duplicate a plan that has this hidden attribute, the duplicated plan will likely also be hidden anytime you are not using it.



Duplicated plans seem to show up no matter what. I have 7 showing now (2 default, 5 duplicates). Balanced and Ultimate Performance seem to be the only ones that don't get hidden.




unclewebb said:


> If you have multiple hidden plans, try accessing them one by one, push the *+* button and then manually switch to another hidden power plan and try pushing the *+* button again. I have no idea if you can use this trick to add all of your available plans to ThrottleStop. It might work.



All good. ThrottleStop added all of them in one go, hidden and visible.




unclewebb said:


> It is probably not a good idea to be doing stuff like that. Use some other naming convention like HI Performance so it is obvious to you, Windows and to ThrottleStop.



Yeah, I named them differently this time around. 




unclewebb said:


> Check the Unlock Adjustable Voltage box and set the offset to 0.0 for each plan.



I thought this was the default behavior when moving to a profile that had that box unchecked.
Meanwhile I started thinking that I had to press the Save button in the main window to make the profile change stick, but I guess not, if I understand correctly it saves which profile the program starts with.




unclewebb said:


> Any crashes are likely being caused by voltage settings that are not 100% stable. What undervolt settings are you trying to use? What CPU do you have? Have you done any partial load stability testing? That can help uncover voltage issues. Can you run 4 or 8 threads of the TS Bench test with 0 errors reported when your voltage is reduced?



I'm still testing my settings. It's a i7-11800H and I was undervolting both CPU Core and Cache by around -120mV (125mV range), now I'm at -99.6mV. I'll run the tests later today.

The game seems to be working fine now, these changes seem to be helping. Thanks!

Edit: I should also point out that I uninstalled Dragon Center and all of it's stuff, which might've also helped. I'm going to try MSI Center again.


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## unclewebb (Mar 10, 2022)

MToze said:


> -120mV


A lot of 11th Gen mobile CPUs like your 11800H are only 100% stable at about -70 mV to -75 mV for the core and cache. This just means that Intel is not using as much excess voltage as they used to use on previous generations. Most 8th Gen were stable at -125 mV. Most 11th Gen are not. 



MToze said:


> that had that box unchecked.


A box that is not checked tells ThrottleStop to do nothing. You have to specifically check the Unlock Adjustable Voltage box if you want ThrottleStop to apply a new voltage that is different than the voltage that was requested by the previous profile you were using. 



MToze said:


> The game seems to be working fine now


That is all that is important.


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