# Dilemma: Core i7 920 or Phenom II 955



## Yukikaze (Apr 23, 2009)

*Dilemma Gone: Core i7 920  - But What RAM and Mobo ?*

Okay. Here's the situation.

I am building myself a second gaming rig to sit at my parent's place and in general re-organizing my computer hardware. Currently I have:

Rig 1:
Q9650
DFI LP JR P45 TR2S
6Gb DDR2

HTPC:
Q6700
Abit I-N73HD
3Gb DDR2

My latest project is modding a small case. I wanted to put the DFI LP JR 790GX in there and get the Phenom II X4 940 for that rig. The small case was supposed to run my 9600GT with a 8600GT thrown in for physics. My parents are flying over to the states in a few days, and I asked them to bring me 8Gb of G.Skill Pi 1100Mhz.

I sold a huge bunch of stuff, and suddenly I have plenty of money I wanted to spend on the other rig and this got me thinking: Why not put my Q9650 in the secondary rig with the mATX board, and get a full ATX mobo and CPU for my main rig instead ? The price difference is minor, but that way I don't limit myself to PCI-E 2.0 x8 slots on both my systems and I make the leap to DDR3.

The dilemma is between 3x2Gb of DDR3 and the Core i7 920, or 4x2Gb DDR3 and the Phenom II X4 955.

What do you guys say ?


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## phanbuey (Apr 23, 2009)

i7 no contest.


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## n-ster (Apr 23, 2009)

already, the PII 955 is a better choice than the 940... But i7 for sure...

Now the question is WHAT parts... I would go DFI DK x58 (220+ship = 230$), i7 920 (230$+tax from microcenter) and 3x2gb of cheap ddr3 1600mhz cas 7 OCZ RAM (about 80$... max 100$)

That should be about 550$! As gor GPU, wait for DX11 cards to come out in Q4 2009


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## Yukikaze (Apr 23, 2009)

n-ster said:


> already, the PII 955 is a better choice than the 940... But i7 for sure...
> 
> Now the question is WHAT parts... I would go DFI DK x58 (220+ship = 230$), i7 920 (230$+tax from microcenter) and 3x2gb of cheap ddr3 1600mhz cas 7 OCZ RAM (about 80$... max 100$)
> 
> That should be about 550$! As gor GPU, wait for DX11 cards to come out in Q4 2009



I got my HD4870X2 for a GPU, it does a fine enough of a job for now.

I am not in the USA, nor the UK, so the store names don't tell me much. The only thing I'll be getting from the US is the RAM.


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Apr 23, 2009)

i7, anything else is uncivilized ....


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## btarunr (Apr 23, 2009)

Why is it even a dilemma? Would you choose between a Core 2 Quad Q9550 and Core i7 920? If the comparison sounds silly, so is that between X4 955 and i7 920. Though if you already have a big chunk of the hardware with you, (the DFI motherboard), then you can save a lot with the X4 955.

Core i7 any day.


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## MilkyWay (Apr 23, 2009)

what do you need or want, do you want power or a reasonable system that is cheaper

if you dont want the best phenom II is fine but i7 is infinatly more powerful


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## n-ster (Apr 23, 2009)

Tell us where you live so we can find best deal for you...

Tell us also where your parents are going in the US... if they can get to a Microcenter, get this ram.. and this i7


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 23, 2009)

Doesnt a heavily overclocked Q9650 give the same relative performance as a i7 920??? just curious because thats what I have heard/read/been told in a lot of places. It might not be super super fast like an i7 but its not too far behind it either.

My 2$ - build & dump the Phenom II 955 rig around your parents house. stick with the Q9650 as your main rig for now as it provides a lot fair bit of muscle over the Phenom II 955.

Also if budget is a issue try to cut a few costs, key factors to keep in mind - will your parents use your pc when your not around? will your dad load into some CoD4?? & finally how often are you around your parents house. 

cuz if your hardly gonna be there it doesnt make sense to spend a lot of money on something your never gonna get the full benefit/use out of.

your a gamer not a antiques collector


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## buddatech (Apr 23, 2009)

FreedomEclipse said:


> *Doesnt a heavily overclocked Q9650 give the same relative performance as a i7 920???* just curious because thats what I have heard/read/been told in a lot of places. It might not be super super fast like an i7 but its not too far behind it either.
> 
> your a gamer not a antiques collector



Don't forget the Q9650 cost roughly $100.00 more than a 920 costs now


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 23, 2009)

buddatech said:


> Don't forget the Q9650 cost roughly $100.00 more than a 920 costs now









Erm.....he ALREADY has a Q9650


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## iandh (Apr 23, 2009)

In a dedicated gaming rig running 1-2 high end GPU's, i7/Q9650/PII 955 @ 4Ghz are so close that it is almost irrelevant which you choose. They all trade blows depending on title. i7 only really stretches its legs once you give it 3+ GPU's to play with.

I personally have found that my PII's run cooler than 45nm C2D quads/i7 at high clocks, so keep cooling in mind as well.


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 23, 2009)

iandh said:


> In a dedicated gaming rig running 1-2 high end GPU's, i7/Q9650/PII 955 @ 4Ghz are so close that it is almost irrelevant which you choose. They all trade blows depending on title. i7 only really stretches its legs once you give it 3+ GPU's to play with.
> 
> I personally have found that my PII's run cooler than 45nm C2D quads/i7 at high clocks, so keep cooling in mind as well.



whats the temps for your PII? my Q9550 ranges from 30-50c (55'c if its a real hot day) with a decent after market cooler - temps arent really an issue.


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## iandh (Apr 23, 2009)

FreedomEclipse said:


> whats the temps for your PII? my Q9550 ranges from 30-50c (55'c if its a real hot day) with a decent after market cooler - temps arent really an issue.



Please don't flame me for this 

I've run my scythe infinity on my Q9450 and my 720BE with 4th core unlocked, both at 3.6Ghz, and the Heatsink felt considerably warmer to the touch with the Q9450. With the 720BE it felt almost cold. Keep in mind I was running fully passive on both so with a fan it could be moot.

I know that is about as unscientific as it gets, but I trust thermal sensors so little it is possibly more accurate making a comparison by touch than what numbers the different CPU's/mobos report.

I've heard a good amount of folks that I consider to be unbiased say the PII's are cool running chips, but that doesn't necessarily imply the 45nm C2Q's are hot running.


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## Yukikaze (Apr 23, 2009)

My Q9650 runs 4Ghz/1.3v with my u120x cooler with load temps around 55c.

In any case, the decision has been made: I'm gonna get a Core i7 920.

Ram recommendations anyone ? I am willing to pay up to 130$ off Newegg (I am ordering to my relatives place and my parents will pick it up from them) for a triple-channel kit.

I also need Mobo recommendations. Any other ideas aside of the DFI DK X58 ? I love DFI, so this was my first idea also, but I am open to any other suggestions.

BTW, is there a way to reuse my u120x for the new socket ? I don't know anything about LGA1366 cooling yet.


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## LittleLizard (Apr 23, 2009)

phenom 2 if you like easy oc. if you want something a bit more difficult, get i7 but performance wise, i7 wins


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## n-ster (Apr 23, 2009)

i7 is so easy to OC  DFI DK is your best bet... not only does it OC extremely well, but it does so on lower voltages... AND it's a very cheap board... as for RAM... If you like OCing, Theses crucials can be OCed easily to 1600... and up to 2k less than 75$ ... if you want safer (by that I mean that you don't need to OC This is a great choice... even without MIR


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## Yukikaze (Apr 23, 2009)

As for the DFI board, we're talking DFI LANPARTY DK X58-T3eH6, right ?

Since this is the one which is relatively cheap here as well, H8 is tons more expensive.


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## n-ster (Apr 23, 2009)

yes it is... the UT (H8) is actually probably worse... or at most equivalent


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## Yukikaze (Apr 23, 2009)

Okay, mobo is decided then.

RAM is still up in the air.


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## n-ster (Apr 23, 2009)

Do you like to OC your RAM?


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## Yukikaze (Apr 23, 2009)

n-ster said:


> Do you like to OC your RAM?



I'd prefer RAM which is rated well enough so that I don't have to push it beyond spec when I OC the CPU. Less variables to hold me back that way. The goal is 4Ghz+.

I'll up the RAM budget a bit, 150$ off the egg is fine.


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## DaMulta (Apr 23, 2009)

Be Kool and buy AMD!


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## n-ster (Apr 23, 2009)

don't up the ram budget... 110$ will get you awsome RAM... btw, when you OC the i7, it is NOT related to RAM AT ALL... and vice versa... btw, after 1600mhz cl7, RAM performance gains after that are basically almost 0.... so choose between the 2 RAMs I linked you and you'll have NO PROBLEM.... the crucials are a great deal... and if your not scared of OCing RAM, it is the perfect choice... if you don't want to OC, those OCZ will do you good...


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## n-ster (Apr 23, 2009)

DaMulta said:


> Be Kool and buy AMD!



Be smart and buy intel  well at least in this situation...


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## Yukikaze (Apr 23, 2009)

n-ster said:


> don't up the ram budget... 110$ will get you awsome RAM... btw, when you OC the i7, it is NOT related to RAM AT ALL... and vice versa... btw, after 1600mhz cl7, RAM performance gains after that are basically almost 0.... so choose between the 2 RAMs I linked you and you'll have NO PROBLEM.... the crucials are a great deal... and if your not scared of OCing RAM, it is the perfect choice... if you don't want to OC, those OCZ will do you good...



Alright. Those OCZs look good.

I think I am all set, thanks everyone and especially n-ster. First I need to finish the case and migrate my Q9650. Then when the DDR3 gets here, I'll start crackin' on the new build. Prices are bound to drop a bit here over the next couple of weeks, too.

What about some kit to fit my ultra 120 onto the LGA1336 ? Anyone knows about something of the sort ?


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## n-ster (Apr 23, 2009)

I'll look into your CPU fan later.. (gtg) but no problem for the help  i7 is what I'm all about, even though I can't afford it xD

Yes I think I already saw a lga1366 backplate btw... I think that now they come with it....


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## DaMulta (Apr 23, 2009)

n-ster said:


> Be smart and buy intel  well at least in this situation...



I look over at the 3dmark boards and see Cheap 955 CPU out running Intels 1 thousand dollar CPU.

Looks to me AMD with overclock = WIN

BTW I'll have a QX9650 new in a box for sale next week for 450.....I see you have a Q9650


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## mp3boy (Apr 24, 2009)

Yukikaze said:


> Okay. Here's the situation.
> 
> I am building myself a second gaming rig to sit at my parent's place and in general re-organizing my computer hardware. Currently I have:
> 
> ...



dude. The i7. NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER...especially if you oc


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## Binge (Apr 24, 2009)

n-ster said:


> already, the PII 955 is a better choice than the 940... But i7 for sure...
> 
> Now the question is WHAT parts... I would go DFI DK x58 (220+ship = 230$), i7 920 (230$+tax from microcenter) and 3x2gb of cheap ddr3 1600mhz cas 7 OCZ RAM (about 80$... max 100$)
> 
> That should be about 550$! As gor GPU, wait for DX11 cards to come out in Q4 2009



MATX boards have terrible heat sinks... personally I'd go with the entry gigabyte board.  Rock solid and supports SLI/Crossfire and the board will run more cool.  I hate OCZ btw... I wouldn't suggest them.  Go for the 1066 CAS 7 Crucials.


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## n-ster (Apr 24, 2009)

Binge said:


> MATX boards have terrible heat sinks... personally I'd go with the entry gigabyte board.  Rock solid and supports SLI/Crossfire and the board will run more cool.  I hate OCZ btw... I wouldn't suggest them.  Go for the 1066 CAS 7 Crucials.



Seriously? you find that your board runs too hot? but doesn't the DFI DK let you OC with lower voltages, a big advantage no? He's looking for a 4ghz OC too, so I would still suggest the DFI DK... in my mind, the 2nd best would be Gigs ud4p  But you don't like your DFI? At one point EVERYONE was praising them like there'S no tomorow lol...

Yea I know you hate OCZ... but you gotta admit at at ddr3 1600 cl7, if it runs fine on stock, your good to go!

but I'm looking forward to your comments on DFI DK/UT vs UD3/UD4p/ud5...


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## Yukikaze (Apr 24, 2009)

Binge said:


> MATX boards have terrible heat sinks... personally I'd go with the entry gigabyte board.  Rock solid and supports SLI/Crossfire and the board will run more cool.  I hate OCZ btw... I wouldn't suggest them.  Go for the 1066 CAS 7 Crucials.



We weren't discussing an mATX board for the Core i7 build though. The DFI DK X58-T3eH6 is a full sized board, not an mATX one. The JR X58-T3H6 is mATX.

I'd rather get RAM that is faster at stock, and I have a pair of OCZ Platinum Low Latency DDR1 in my P4 still going strong (and still doing 2.85v CL2-2-2-5 at DDR-390Mhz). Even the OCZ Value sticks I've had overclocked like crazy (I ran OCZ Value DDR2 800Mhz at 1110 with CL6-6-6-18 and 1.85v). Never had any problems with OCZ, so I am going to get those, unless there is a problem with the specific tri-channel kit that was mentioned.

What about the Asus P6T or the Foxconn X58 Renaissance?

Heck, screw it, if a P6T Deluxe, or the X58 Extreme by GB would be better bets, let me know. This won't break the piggybank, either.

Edit: The Foxconn X58 Bloodrage is highly praised by the Ninjalane review. It is priced competitively here, considering that it comes with a Creative Sonar X-Fi and seems to overclock very well.

Bah. Market research in a new tech zone, gonna take a while to make a decision...


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## 1Kurgan1 (Apr 24, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> i7 no contest.



IS there any thought behind this? The i7 for sure is a synthetic monster, but gaming performance the PII's are sweeping the feet out under the i7's, even the lower PII's.... He didn't really say a benching rig.

Just qouting you, I did read the rest, but no point in quoting basically the same answers.


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 24, 2009)

Gaming Performance and Price would tell me the Phenom 2 Rig will suffice for sometime.


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## n-ster (Apr 24, 2009)

in multi-GPU, PII doesn't "sweep the feet out of" the i7 at all.... if anything, it'll be the opposite... and in single GPU, i7 equals PII pretty much...

I tell you... DFI DK OCs VERY well for the price.... if there are boards similar in price or lower, but look better or something, and you like that, then you can get it... but sseriously, here at TPU, the DFI DK is looked as godly... kinda like those crucials too... because they yielded the best OCs for us... but there are some others that are good, so just name the model and we can inform you


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## 1Kurgan1 (Apr 24, 2009)

When you have a PII 920 (yes with a single GPU) beating a i7 965 in Crysis I would calll that sweeping feet, thats over $800 difference in price right there.

The big advantage to the i7 is the HT, and that isn't applied in gaming, so imo just not worth it. I mean it's a great setup, but if it's just going to be for gaming, both will be great choices, but the PII will get it done and done well for a bit less.


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## 3870x2 (Apr 24, 2009)

iandh said:


> Please don't flame me for this
> 
> I've run my scythe infinity on my Q9450 and my 720BE with 4th core unlocked, both at 3.6Ghz, and the Heatsink felt considerably warmer to the touch with the Q9450. With the 720BE it felt almost cold. Keep in mind I was running fully passive on both so with a fan it could be moot.
> 
> ...



it is widely known that i7 runs very hot.  Those with an i7 setup have reportedly done away with their central heat.


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## Assassin48 (Apr 24, 2009)

3870x2 said:


> it is widely known that i7 runs very hot.  Those with an i7 setup have reportedly done away with their central heat.



and stove/BBQ


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## Yukikaze (Apr 24, 2009)

I tend to run multi-GPU setups (previous one was 8800GT SLI, now the HD4870X2) and this is another reason I prefer the X58 based system - It allows for both CFX and SLI if one is more appealing than the other at the moment.

The DFI DK is pretty much decided for me as the motherboard.


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## n-ster (Apr 24, 2009)

1Kurgan1 said:


> When you have a PII 920 (yes with a single GPU) beating a i7 965 in Crysis I would calll that sweeping feet, thats over $800 difference in price right there.
> 
> The big advantage to the i7 is the HT, and that isn't applied in gaming, so imo just not worth it. I mean it's a great setup, but if it's just going to be for gaming, both will be great choices, but the PII will get it done and done well for a bit less.



if you would test them OCed... a i7 920 would be VERY close to a PII 955 ... in single GPUs... i7  940 or 965 SUCK... 920 owns (price/performance wise)... a 4 to 4.2 ghz OC on air on i7 is very common... as for heat, i7 is DESIGNED to take heat... you can run them at 80 to 90 centigrate no problem... in multi-GPU, especially 3+, i7 920 KILLS PII...


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## phanbuey (Apr 24, 2009)

1Kurgan1 said:


> IS there any thought behind this? The i7 for sure is a synthetic monster, but gaming performance the PII's are sweeping the feet out under the i7's, even the lower PII's.... He didn't really say a benching rig.
> 
> Just qouting you, I did read the rest, but no point in quoting basically the same answers.



of course there is... the Phenom II 955 won't last as long as the core i7 will... and show me one review where the Phenom II "sweeps the feet out under" the i7.  That's a lie.  The only instance of that is a crossfire review by annandtech and that had more to do with the 790FX being a better Xfire chipset - and only in two games out of many.  In single-gpu and in CPU bound instances, the phenom loses.

Once the next gen cards come out, you will see the phenom start to fall behind the i7, especially in multi GPU configs.  The only reason that the phenom II keeps up is that it has enough juice to run everything you need _today_.  The i7 on the other hand, has enough juice to keep up for some time to come.  If you can get the fastest tech right now, for not all that much more, then why not do it?


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## n-ster (Apr 24, 2009)

phanbuey... in your 1st paragraph, you mean that in multi-gpu phenom loses no? anyhow... what I want to make as a point is that the reviews have a PII 955 at 3.2ghz vs a i7 920 at 2.66... i7 OCs much better than PII... but they could at least test this in 4ghz each... in that case i7 wins hands down... If he wouldn't OC, then its a different story


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## 1Kurgan1 (Apr 25, 2009)

n-ster said:


> if you would test them OCed... a i7 920 would be VERY close to a PII 955 ... in single GPUs... i7  940 or 965 SUCK... 920 owns (price/performance wise)... a 4 to 4.2 ghz OC on air on i7 is very common... as for heat, i7 is DESIGNED to take heat... you can run them at 80 to 90 centigrate no problem... in multi-GPU, especially 3+, i7 920 KILLS PII...



I'm sure it would be very close, both are awesome processors. Really for gaming the performance difference is going to be neglible is what I'm trying to say.



phanbuey said:


> and show me one review where the Phenom II "sweeps the feet out under" the i7.  That's a lie.









There you go, even PII 720 > i7 lineup. And look at that Q9550S kicking it!


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## trt740 (Apr 25, 2009)

Yukikaze said:


> Okay. Here's the situation.
> 
> I am building myself a second gaming rig to sit at my parent's place and in general re-organizing my computer hardware. Currently I have:
> 
> ...



*To answer the question if you have the money a I7 rig will be faster but run a bit hotter. If you want to build it cheaper, have it run cooler and have extra money for a better GPU go PII. *


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## phanbuey (Apr 25, 2009)

1Kurgan1 said:


> I'm sure it would be very close, both are awesome processors. Really for gaming the performance difference is going to be neglible is what I'm trying to say.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 well... alright then.  The Q9550 beating it makes me a little suspicious tho, I gotta say...

http://www.guru3d.com/article/core-i7-multigpu-sli-crossfire-game-performance-review/19

"*Far Cry 2 is not different. As you can see FC2 is very CPU limited on both the E8400 Dual Core processor yet also on the snazzy QX9770 based platform. But again a massive win on Core i7."*


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## bpgt64 (Apr 25, 2009)

*Well, your forgetting one thing...*

GPUs are only JUST now starting to benefit from Quad cores, and even then its marginal.  Go look at say, Tomshardware.com or any other benching site and you'll see how little difference is really made by quad cores, and the new i7 architecture, with reference to games in the 1680x1050 category.  My E8400 at 4.0ghz plus a HD 4870 X2 destroys every game I throw at it, with max settings and 1680x1050.  That includes; TF2, Far Cry 2, Crisis(original, warhead, and wars), and many many more.  CPU doesn't matter nearly as much as GPU and it seems you have that covered.  So I'd do which ever was cheaper.  

The prior paragraph is based on the idea that your talking about gaming.  So I am assuming that your using a standard LCD moniter with no higher than 60 hz, so any benchmarks that show games with 160fps, are stupid.   Applications wise the i7 does a good job of kicking the AMD in the nuts however.  Unless you REALLY wanna blow the cash, go with which ever is cheaper.


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## n-ster (Apr 25, 2009)

1Kurgan1 said:


> I'm sure it would be very close, both are awesome processors. Really for gaming the performance difference is going to be neglible is what I'm trying to say.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Who in their good mind would run an i7 at 2.66?

Do you agree that i7 OCs to 4ghz easy? so does the PII 940? 4ghz is an average OC for both right?

GUESS WHO WOULD KILL THE OTHER??? i7 

PII 955 sucks (for the price I mean) so do i7 940 and i7 965

IMO, you can't go wrong with PII 940BE or 720BE


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## wiak (Apr 25, 2009)

support the under dog, you save over ~$100 you can use on a SSD, bigger harddrive or faster graphics card like 4870 X2 
it all depends what you are gonna us it for to, if your a gamer then just get the Phenom II, its even faster than i7 in games at high detail/AF/AA and resolution


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## bpgt64 (Apr 25, 2009)

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-geforce-intel-core-i7,7624.html

That sums up how much your CPU matters vs GPU.


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## Yukikaze (Apr 25, 2009)

wiak said:


> support the under dog, you save over ~$100 you can use on a SSD, bigger harddrive or faster graphics card like 4870 X2
> it all depends what you are gonna us it for to, if your a gamer then just get the Phenom II, its even faster than i7 in games at high detail/AF/AA and resolution



Well, the decision to go i7 already fell for me and the thread was already half-derailed into "This ! That !". 

In an attempt to bring it a bit back to the track, here's the rationalization behind going with the Core i7:

Support the underdog is hardly an incentive to buy, at least for me. Besides, my paycheck is paid by the guys who make the i7 

For real though: I am a gamer and a tinker/bencher both, and I already have the HD4870X2 which will be used in that rig (My Q9650 gets the 9600GT and the 8600GT for PhysX). I cannot buy a SSD for 100$ here (not even for 200$, actually) and I run RAID0 setups which are more attractive in perf * size / price ratio. Finally, CPU-wise the Core i7 costs approx. as much as the Phenom II 955 (Again, over here), with the 50$ difference between the DFI board and a good AM3 board over here being a moot point since the X58 allows me to run SLI or CFX, while on the AM3 platform only CFX is an option (And I am no GPU fanboy, I want to be able to buy whatever is best at the moment, and always have the option to expand to a multi-GPU setup by the same manufacturer down the road).

Finally, as to why not buy the 940BE - That was the original plan, but I'd rather buy a system with RAM which will be reused in the future, so DDR2 is out.


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## bpgt64 (Apr 25, 2009)

We'll heres the problem, in easy terms, You have  BMW, a Porche and a Ferrari, all that can do 120 mph(190 something in kph), but you still have a speed limit of 60mph(90kph).   

_*I would buy which ever is cheapest, because in terms of gaming..it doesn't matter.  Especially if all the games you run can be handled by a 9600GT..it doesn't matter, because your games aren't limited by the i7 or the 955 PII, there limited by the 9600GT....*_

Supporting the underdog isn't a reason to buy, but frankly it doesn't matter, if moneys no object get the i7, but you rarely would see and performance gain over the AMD equivalant in terms of gaming.  You actually wouldn't see any improvement over the Q9650...really between either chip anyway.

What I'd do, is buy the AMD because more than likely its cheaper.  And I'd spend the rest on a new GPU for the Q9650 rig.  Possible a Nvidia 260 216 or a HD 4870.


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## Yukikaze (Apr 25, 2009)

bpgt64 said:


> We'll heres the problem, in easy terms, You have  BMW, a Porche and a Ferrari, all that can do 120 mph(190 something in kph), but you still have a speed limit of 60mph(90kph).
> 
> _*I would buy which ever is cheapest, because in terms of gaming..it doesn't matter.  Especially if all the games you run can be handled by a 9600GT..it doesn't matter....*_



I fail to see any problem that is not addressed by my reasons as outlined in the previous post.

Besides, where did I say all my games can be handled by the 9600GT ? The fact that this is what the mod-rig will be getting is simply because it is what I have on hand, for now. The HD4870X2 does run everything I want it to run (and probably will keep doing it for at least half-a-year or a bit more), though, and this is what the new setup will be equipped with.


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## bpgt64 (Apr 25, 2009)

Upgrading the 9600GT on the secondary rig, that is assuming your going to be using it as much as the other one, would make more sense.  My point is, all else being equal, go with which ever is cheaper.


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## Yukikaze (Apr 25, 2009)

bpgt64 said:


> Upgrading the 9600GT on the secondary rig, that is assuming your going to be using it as much as the other one, would make more sense.  My point is, all else being equal, go with which ever is cheaper.



I won't be, actually. Or at least, I won't be gaming on it as much as on the other. 

The whole idea behind my explanation is that not everything is equal (Specifically, to a lesser extent, the switch to DDR3 and, to a greater extent, the ability to run both CFX and SLI are the sell points here, for me at least).

Much thanks for the input ! You've put a lot of effort into this thread.


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## phanbuey (Apr 25, 2009)

bpgt64 said:


> http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-geforce-intel-core-i7,7624.html
> 
> That sums up how much your CPU matters vs GPU.



yeah thats always been the truth... (lol im running an E8500 with the gtx 260 sli - what they mentioned in that link).  But from a purely CPU standpoint you will always want to get the best power for the money.  IMO that is the i7.  Its more expensive, but more powerful.

i dont think we are debating getting a CPU over a gfx... clearly gfx is the way to go for gaming unless you have a prehistoric cpu.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Apr 25, 2009)

n-ster said:


> Who in their good mind would run an i7 at 2.66?
> 
> Do you agree that i7 OCs to 4ghz easy? so does the PII 940? 4ghz is an average OC for both right?
> 
> ...



For sure OCing is the way to go, but you got to admit the test results are quiet impressive, I would like to see some OC results as even the 720 is 6 fps ahead at 1900x1200.

But the PII 955 price isn't too bad right now, remember the 940 released at $240 and it's I think only like $5 more than that, very reasonable. And it did just release, give it a week or so too cool down. The ability to run DDR2 or DDR3 and supposedly go to 3.6 - 3.8ghz on stock voltage is worth it.

And yes I am loving my 720BE, for the $140 I got it for, it destroys


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## Binge (Apr 25, 2009)

I think the 720 is good value, but I can't stand idly by and watch someone go for a 940/955 while in the same price bracket as the 920.  920 is the best damn processor for over $200 and under $300.  People also say they're making a gaming rig, but they end up doing everything they can with their machines.  If people wanted to only game they'd save money and buy a console once every 3-5 years.  That is unless we're talking about WOW addicts, and in which case they should just feed BLIZZARD money through an IV like the several million morons on this planet.  The point is the i7 can game and do everything else.  If you run Vista turn HT off and you're good to go.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Apr 26, 2009)

If you read the whole OP you see it's his second rig, I would assume his first with the QX9650 would be what he is using to do anything else on. Plus whats the point of HT off when thats the big advantage to do everything else with the i7?


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## Binge (Apr 26, 2009)

1Kurgan1 said:


> If you read the whole OP you see it's his second rig, I would assume his first with the QX9650 would be what he is using to do anything else on. Plus whats the point of HT off when thats the big advantage to do everything else with the i7?



The idea is that in Vista HT doesn't work well.  Honestly it really doesn't work.  In XP or W7 HT is fine.  Come on Kur... I don't care what other systems he has.  He may want two machines to balance tasks, and if one is to do tasks while he games with the other then it's obvious he should go with the i7.  He can game perfectly on either the i7 or the QX9650.  I'd LOVE for you to take your head out of the sand and get that I'm pushing for the better system from my view.  Senseless this


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## kid41212003 (Apr 26, 2009)

All the benchmarks so far that ran on Vista is not real results for Core i7.

The results you saw on Vista is:

1 thread out of 8 threads of core i7 vs 1 core of Phenom II (single thread or application/games that can't use more than 4 threads).

So, that's mean half a core of Core i7 can already handle a Phenom II.

I'm sure that when Windows 7 is officially out, all Core i7 users will be happy that they made that decision.


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## Yukikaze (Apr 26, 2009)

1Kurgan1 said:


> If you read the whole OP you see it's his second rig, I would assume his first with the QX9650 would be what he is using to do anything else on. Plus whats the point of HT off when thats the big advantage to do everything else with the i7?
> 
> And one could throw a bunch of senseless bashing about, shitty anime, but really whats the point? Kind of childish.



In case I wasn't clear: The Q9650 (Not the QX, just the Q) is getting exiled to the small case, with the Core i7 replacing it as my main rig.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Apr 26, 2009)

Now anyways back on topic, your acting like the PII 955 gets tossed aside by the i7 here, and it doesn't not even close. With the HT on it does in alot of non-gaming related tasks, but with HT off, that defeats the purpose.

The 955 is a fantastic processor so I'm just missing the point. I mean as it sits like I have said i7 or PII are both great choices. The only thing it really comes down to what brand your a fanboy of. No head in the sand anywhere, I know both procs will get any job done that needs to be done, and it just seems you the one with the head buried. 

I mean if it was with HT on and superior clocks I would have to say the i7 would be the better choice overall. But thats not really the case.


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## n-ster (Apr 26, 2009)

DUDE... i7's advantage IS NOT HT FOR GODS SAKES.... an i7 920 at 4ghz HT OFF beats a PII 955 4ghz in 100% of FREAKING THINGSSSSSSS...

PII 955 SUCKS.... a PII 940BE is MUCH better  (I'm always talking price/performance)

Binge, i7 is a great choice obviously but isn't it for the people who have the extra money to pay 60$ more for CPU 100$ more for mobo and 40$ more in RAM? I'm not comapring to PII 955 but to 940BE... so 200$ difference is significant...

i7 920 (all tax (for CPU) and ship included)
about 250$ i7 920 
230$ mobo (DFI DK)
75$ RAM (crucials) or 50$ for 3gb

550$

PII 940BE 
190$ pII 940BE
100 to 120$ Mobo (example Biostar 128m 790FX)
40-50$ RAM

350$

i7 OCs better than PII... an AVERAGE OC is anything between 3.8 and 4.2
HT IS NOT THE FUCKING ADVANTAGE i7 HAS THAT KILLS THE OTHERS... it's just better clock per clock and just performs much better

IMO I would have to think a long time before deciding to dish out the extra 200$ or not...


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## Assassin48 (Apr 26, 2009)

and you know whats funny the polls are even 
ROFL!

I would go with a PII 955 just because i intel might change there mind and decide to change something that will require a whole upgrade 

this way i can swap out the cpu with a 955

I bought my current setup back in october with a 9950BE and a Am2+ SB750 mobo
i had a while it was good but when the 940 was going to come out i was like NOOO i might have to upgrade my whole setup again but once i read some more all i had to do was swap out the old cpu and BAM! 940 into my old mobo and it works!
same with the 955 if i didnt want to go am3 i would just put it in my current mobo and run with it

I am not saying i7 is better nor am i saying 955 is better 
All i am saying is i am Future Proof in my new am3 system or my am2 system 
but if i would have gone with a lg775 i would of needed a new mobo/cpu/ram wich would of been expensive over $1300  vs 2xx for my 940


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## Binge (Apr 26, 2009)

Interesting look at the situation Assassin.  Can you really speculate that AMD will stay with AM3 like they held on to the latter end of AM2?


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## Assassin48 (Apr 26, 2009)

Binge said:


> Interesting look at the situation Assassin.  Can you really speculate that AMD will stay with AM3 like they held on to the latter end of AM2?
> 
> Kur, please do your homework.  Anime is a japanese term that is short for animated cartoon.  I've not once used an image from an animated cartoon.



i just really started getting into computers when i built this one and have stayed current with things now but not back in the past

I think amd is goint to stay with am3 for a while before they make us move especially they way things are going 

when they see that people arent willing to PAY big for a complete new cpu/mobo/ram they take it into consideration and will most likey make it compatible with a past and future mobo 

like the 720BE 955BE you dont have to upgrade right away you can wait a little and try it out on you current mobo and if you want that extra speed just upgrade when the time is right 

especially if your on a tight budget like most of us are at some point


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## Binge (Apr 26, 2009)

That viewpoint is definitely something to take into consideration, and I personally prefer that instead of butting heads over the processors.  I'm not sure what will happen in the future, but you know I will be looking into AM3's future a little more closely now.  No matter the choice the OP decides to take you probably brought up the most compelling argument for going with AM3.  Hopefully intel releases better and better LGA 1366 processors to give the standard a little more life eh?


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## n-ster (Apr 26, 2009)

yea I never thought about the future before... Indeed that would give a good reason going AM3... Personally, if I had to choose though, I would go 720BE 

I wonder if AMD would choose to do like intel, forcing you to change mobo too... or intel doing like AMD, staying with the same sockets


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## farlex85 (Apr 26, 2009)

It's speculation though. Both LGA1366 and AM3 are new, it's difficult to say which will last longer as a platform. One could just as easily say that intel will at least continue 1366 through Westmere, and possibly even through Sandy Bridge (775 crossed generations). There's no guarantee AM3 will continue for longer than 2009 (although it's likely they will at least go into next year). You may see an AM3+ that would require an upgrade. Future-proofing is nice, but speculation upon upcoming procs and platforms is just that, speculation.

Anyway, I would say if it's a secondary rig and a gaming rig, a 720BE would be pretty much the perfect fit in bang/buck. Primary I'd go i7. But I wouldn't spend that much for a back-up gaming rig (wouldn't spend that much for a 955 either, they are overpriced).


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## n-ster (Apr 26, 2009)

i7 vs 940BE vs 955

what would you pick price vs performance?

depends on money... i7 or 940BE

940BE vs 720BE

what would you pick?

I would go 720BE


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## Assassin48 (Apr 26, 2009)

n-ster said:


> yea I never thought about the future before... Indeed that would give a good reason going AM3... Personally, if I had to choose though, I would go 720BE
> 
> I wonder if AMD would choose to do like intel, forcing you to change mobo too... or intel doing like AMD, staying with the same sockets



nah i would go with the 955 DDR2 or DDR3 its more performance 

what it comes down to is the OP choice he chooses what to get were not going to be using his pc maybe if he lets me OC it a little i will


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## farlex85 (Apr 26, 2009)

n-ster said:


> i7 vs 940BE vs 955
> 
> what would you pick price vs performance?
> 
> ...



Everybody seems to have forgotten about the C2Q since they've been out for so long, but they just as good as the PII, and in the case of the 12MB cache models, they're still faster. The Q9550 is about the same price as the PII 955 and the C2Q is faster. The 940 has now dropped to a reasonable price, but IMO the entire PII line is still pretty much useless (doesn't do anything C2Q didn't do for years now). The Triple core 720BE is a fantastic value though, especially for somebody who is primarily gaming w/ a sprinkle of multi-threading in there.


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## n-ster (Apr 26, 2009)

it's true, I have forgotten about them... but isn't intel abandonning them?

paying 110$ for an extra core? (720BE vs 955) when you have a good chance of unlocking a 4th core anyways?


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## farlex85 (Apr 26, 2009)

n-ster said:


> it's true, I have forgotten about them... but isn't intel abandonning them?



Well i5 is supposed to replace them, but I don't think there's any rush. They haven't been pressured to do so yet, so they're taking their time until PII eclipses core 2, which could be a while still. I'd say they'll be going strong for a while still.


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## n-ster (Apr 26, 2009)

I'm thinking that by the end of the year, c2Q will be old news...


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## farlex85 (Apr 26, 2009)

n-ster said:


> I'm thinking that by the end of the year, c2Q will be old news...



Could be not sold anymore, but at this rate it will still be a very valid and potent platform for a number of home uses (gaming and pretty much anything that doesn't utilize multiple cores very effectively).


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## n-ster (Apr 26, 2009)

interesting thought... are c2Q mobos about 100$? how much does it cost for a c2q that is equivalent to a PII 940BE (preferably both OCed)


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## farlex85 (Apr 26, 2009)

n-ster said:


> interesting thought... are c2Q mobos about 100$? how much does it cost for a c2q that is equivalent to a PII 940BE (preferably both OCed)



Good OC boards start around $100, if you want good cf or sli though it gets closer to $200. The Q9400 is roughly equivalent to the PII 940 (both OC'd to the same speed the Q9400 pulls ahead). The PII is cheaper right now in most places by a decent bit (Q9400 is around $210 or so, PII 940 around $180).


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## Binge (Apr 26, 2009)

I hope people don't think I was giving up on my support for the i7 by saying Assassin has an interesting perspective .  Whichever proc the OP decides on he'll have to decide on a few things.  Does he want to spend new money on tech that competes with yesterday's tech, or invest in the most innovative processor/chipset for the personal computing?

I'm not trying to bash anyone or be cocky...

LGA 1366/x58 offers high speed overclocking, a large memory bandwidth, SLI and Crossfire without spending a premium, and 8 threads for multi-threaded apps and multi tasking.


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## n-ster (Apr 26, 2009)

in that case I think PII wins over C2Q...

is it worth 200$ more (350 vs 550) over a PII 940? maybe... but for gaming needs I believe a 720BE is the best choice

I just think that i7 is the new tech as you said, but that that new tech is just 550$ over the 350$... and if you wait, maybe the 955 will hit the 200$ mark?


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## erocker (Apr 26, 2009)

If I want to save money while buying a "gaming" rig.. E8400, some cheap cas 4 ddr2 800 and something like a Blood Iron motherboard will suit me just fine.  The whole premise that you are comparing i7 to AM3 makes me want to throw up at you.  I chose the AMD route in the poll since it's cheaper.  WTF does 1-10 fps matter when you are playing with 100's of fps already?  Plus, no one should have the need to justify their purchases.  Some of you arguing in this thread about it might as well get married and argue on who should wear the dress.


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## Assassin48 (Apr 26, 2009)

erocker said:


> If I want to save money while buying a "gaming" rig.. E8400, some cheap cas 4 ddr2 800 and something like a Blood Iron motherboard will suit me just fine.  The whole premise that you are comparing i7 to AM3 makes me want to throw up at you.



shouldnt it be throw up on you? 

I have some 8gb ddr2 ocz for 75 in my fs thread in my sig


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## erocker (Apr 26, 2009)

Assassin48 said:


> shouldnt it be throw up on you?
> 
> I have some 8gb ddr2 ocz for 75 in my fs thread in my sig



That's nice.   I love it when my point is completely missed.  I don't have very good puke aim.


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## Binge (Apr 26, 2009)

It's so revolting it's projectile.  ERock's in a funk??


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## erocker (Apr 26, 2009)

Kinda...  I'm listening to some James Brown right now..  He doesn't know what i7's are!


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