# Driverless car beats racing driver for first time



## entropy13 (Feb 15, 2015)

Driverless cars now out-perform skilled racing drivers, engineers at Stanford University have shown, after pitting their latest model against a track expert.

The team has designed a souped-up Audi TTS dubbed ‘Shelley’ which has been programmed to race on its own at speeds above 120 mph at Thunderhill Raceway Park in Northern California.

When they tested it against David Vodden, the racetrack CEO and amateur touring class champion, Shelley was faster by 0.4 of a second.

To get the cars up to speed, the Stanford team have been studying drivers, even attaching electrodes to their heads to monitor brain activity in the hope of learning which neural circuits are working during difficult manouvres.

And they have used the results to make a car that can drive even better than expert motorists. They predict that within the next 15 years, cars which can drive with the skill of Michael Schumacher could be driving children to school.

“We’ve been trying to develop cars that perform like the very best human drivers,” said Professor Chris Gerdes, director of the Revs Programme at the Centre for Automotive Research at Stanford University.

“Race car drivers are really fantastic using all the friction between the tire and the road to get around the track.

“Now they are doing that to be fast but the same mathematics holds whether you’re a race car driver trying to go around the corner without going off the track or spinning, or whether you’re a normal driver going on an icy road where you come in a turn to fast and you want to stay in your lane.

“So by looking at race car drivers we are actually looking at the same mathematical problem that we use for safety on the highways.

“We’ve got the point of being fairly comparable to an expert driver in terms of our ability to drive around the track.”

By studying the brains of drivers when they were negotiating a race-track, the scientists were intrigued to find that during the most complex tasks, the experts used less brain power. They appeared to be acting on instinct and muscle memory rather than using judgement as a computer programme would.

“It looks as if the skilled race car drivers are able to control their cars with very little cognitive load,” said Prof Gerdes.

Mr Vodden agreed saying in difficult manouvres experience kicked in. "If you're thinking you're going too slow."



Full article here.


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## Caring1 (Feb 15, 2015)

But how would that car go in a field full of competitors?
I think all the sensors would kick in and it would lose.
But then I wouldn't race against a driverless car, it defeats the purpose of proving you are a better driver than the next guy.


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## newconroer (Feb 15, 2015)

Caring1 said:


> But how would that car go in a field full of competitors?
> I think all the sensors would kick in and it would lose.
> But then I wouldn't race against a driverless car, it defeats the purpose of proving you are a better driver than the next guy.



You couldn't compete with other humans, because the AI would never be able to adapt to unknown elements - such as the other driver's red moment of rage as he slams into you purposely.

The best you would hope for is a field of all computer controlled vehicles, but the lack of human passion and emotion would make it uninteresting for most audiences. Sadly, people don't watch racing any more for the racing, they watch it for the soap opera that it's become (coughFormula1cough).


One thing I find interesting is this idea that they would use professional racing drivers as a measurement of public driving capability. I can promise you right now, I drive better on the street than Michael Schumacher does - guaranteed.
I think the idea of non manned vehicles is pointless, whether it's cars, trains, planes, ships, forklifts - they're all jobs that require human input (for better or worse) and they provide employement for humans.

We don't need machines to do these things - and whatever little margin of error they can remove due to the human element, is not worth what we lose overall.


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## krusha03 (Feb 15, 2015)

newconroer said:


> You couldn't compete with other humans, because the AI would never be able to adapt to unknown elements - such as the other driver's red moment of rage as he slams into you purposely.
> 
> The best you would hope for is a field of all computer controlled vehicles, but the lack of human passion and emotion would make it uninteresting for most audiences. Sadly, people don't watch racing any more for the racing, they watch it for the soap opera that it's become (coughFormula1cough).
> 
> ...


Actually in planes 90% of the job is already done by the autopilot (with exception of take-off and some landings) with the pilot just imputing the parameters and pretty soon the pilot will actually not be necessary at all. Some companies actually force a pilot to do certain amount of "on-hand" landings per months as to be trained in the event there is a problem with the autopilot. Advanced "unstable" designs such as the B2 and F117 actually are not flyable without computer assistance.  In the latest generation of fighter jets today the maneuverability of the plane is limited by the amount of Gs the pilot can take and not the structure of the aircraft so you can say humans are the weakest link.

Doing complete autonomous trains is possible for quite some time already since traffic is controlled there. The only current issue would be detecting obstacle on the rails but it's not like current human operators can stop in time in most cases anyway. The problem with cars is as you said the unpredictability of other human controlled vehicles and humans themselves around you. Also in all these cases an issue becomes what if the electronics fail but again the same is what if the train operator gets a hearth attack?  The matter of fact is we as humans fell more comfortable knowing that there is a "trained" human in that cockpit sitting there and watching movies on his company issued iPad


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## qubit (Feb 15, 2015)

This is an amazing development in a short amount of time. I'd like to know what sort of computer and software is capable of controlling a car with this performance.



newconroer said:


> One thing I find interesting is this idea that they would use professional racing drivers as a measurement of public driving capability. I can promise you right now, I drive better on the street than Michael Schumacher does - guaranteed.
> I think the idea of non manned vehicles is pointless, whether it's cars, trains, planes, ships, forklifts - they're all jobs that require human input (for better or worse) and they provide employement for humans.
> 
> We don't need machines to do these things - and whatever little margin of error they can remove due to the human element, is not worth what we lose overall.


How can you guarantee that you drive better than Schumacker on the street? Got anything to substantiate it? I strongly doubt your claim. If you're making a joke about him being disabled due to that awful accident, then I don't think that's in good taste.

Also, I love driving, but I can also see the place of autonomous vehicles, which have many advantages. In my case, it would really help with any long distance driving, where fatigue tends to kick in and try to make me fall asleep at the wheel. One of my friends only lives 50 miles away, but I can't visit him during the working week because of this. I have to make sure I'm properly refreshed on the weekend and I can't stay too late. Give me an autonomous car and this wouldn't be an issue, plus I could even sleep on the way there.

The case is even stronger when I have to go a very long distance, say 200 miles or so, which I do sometimes when going to a football match with my friends. I make sure they do the driving and that they're up for it.


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## xfia (Feb 15, 2015)

I think its something pretty useful myself..
have seen it a few times on documentaries and there is actually a highway in cali that was used for testing. pretty interesting tech with motion detection for other cars, objects and people.. probably similar but more advanced than automatic parking. the kind of telemetry a heterogeneous apu can get done.. would like to know what they actually use.


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## D007 (Feb 15, 2015)

When it says "amateur touring class champion" the validity of the entire test is useless.
May as well say it beat an amateur mom, with 3 kids in the car.
Also driving an oval, with high, very visible walls and differentiation, does not impress me at all.

But hey, still better than nothing I guess and a step in the right direction.
I just think the title makes a "grand" claim that is misleading.


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## AphexDreamer (Feb 15, 2015)

Imagine this, people watching AI races and whoever has the best algorithm/AI wins.


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## Solaris17 (Feb 15, 2015)

D007 said:


> When it says "amateur touring class champion" the validity of the entire test is useless.
> May as well say it beat an amateur mom, with 3 kids in the car.
> Also driving an oval, with high, very visible walls and differentiation, does not impress me at all.
> 
> ...



Can you drive that well?


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## xfia (Feb 15, 2015)

AphexDreamer said:


> Imagine this, people watching AI races and whoever has the best algorithm/AI wins.



zoom zoom!  thats a good idea after you stop laughing about it..  one the questions raised on the subject is how reliable the computer and software will be.


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## xfia (Feb 15, 2015)

Solaris17 said:


> Can you drive that well?



nothing is like driving with a car full of kids..  if there was a school bus with no driver it would get vandalized with washable markers and its poor software would be traumatized..


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## Solaris17 (Feb 15, 2015)

xfia said:


> nothing is like driving with a car full of kids..  if there was a school bus with no driver it would get vandalized with washable markers and its poor software would be traumatized..



im sure it isnt. Which is why I bring it up. I mean people with cars full of kids are some of the most dangerous I see on the road. maybe bad parenting. Thats not whats being discussed here. I would like to know why people would make a baseless claim against technology with no proof however. That is what's being discussed. Regardless of what we "perceive" his skill to be a robot just beat a human in a race. thats a crazy technological advancement.

However I understand their are always members that will find some negative and not the point. They are the same type of person that cries about GPU thermals every year.

"har if they gave us a better more powerful GPU why didn't they give us better thermal control?!"


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## xfia (Feb 15, 2015)

I usually don't notice if a car has kids in it when its allover the road because I hang back but I understand what your saying..  

It's a decent article that has a bit to much flare and not enough information.. like what is being done with the other dozen or more similar projects. 

pretty simple for the most part compared to others but what is most interesting and possibly unique to this one is studying brain activity while driving.. certainly something they could have elaborated on.


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Feb 15, 2015)

Get a computer to ride a Motogp bike........THEN i'll be impressed.








GO ROSSI   2015


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## FreedomEclipse (Feb 15, 2015)

Guise, I think i found out who the stig is.....


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## Frick (Feb 15, 2015)

qubit said:


> How can you guarantee that you drive better than Schumacker on the street? Got anything to substantiate it? I strongly doubt your claim. If you're making a joke about him being disabled due to that awful accident, then I don't think that's in good taste.



Aww I was just about to say that both me and Stephen Hawking drives better than him now.


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## erocker (Feb 15, 2015)

Meh. What's the point of competition if no person is competing. The thing that makes racing exciting is the human element.

I'm sure this will go a long way with autonomous cars... for people who don't like driving.. Which are people I don't want to know.


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## twilyth (Feb 15, 2015)

entropy13 said:


> And they have used the results to make a car that can drive even better than expert motorists. They predict that within the next 15 years, cars which can drive with the skill of Michael Schumacher could be driving children to school.


What a kid being driven to school by a Formula One driver looks like.


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## AphexDreamer (Feb 15, 2015)

erocker said:


> Meh. What's the point of competition if no person is competing. The thing that makes racing exciting is the human element.
> 
> I'm sure this will go a long way with autonomous cars... for people who don't like driving.. Which are people I don't want to know.



People would still be competing, who has the best code/Hardware.


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## krusha03 (Feb 15, 2015)

twilyth said:


> What a kid being driven to school by a Formula One driver looks like.


I can only imagine what happens if you get driven by a WRC driver then...  (hint: wrc > f1)


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## D007 (Feb 16, 2015)

Solaris17 said:


> Can you drive that well?



Better actually. My dad was a racecar driver..
You mad bro?
You seem mad..lol..

The point being, regardless that the test is dumb. No real world streets have 12 foot walls and are always an oval. Again, not impressed.
This has all of 0 real world application.


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## krusha03 (Feb 16, 2015)

D007 said:


> Better actually. My dad was a racecar driver..
> You mad bro?
> You seem mad..lol..
> 
> ...



In other news , 1 year ago


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 16, 2015)

"Amateur"


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## newconroer (Feb 22, 2015)

AphexDreamer said:


> Imagine this, people watching AI races and whoever has the best algorithm/AI wins.


We do that already, it's called Formula 1.





qubit said:


> This is an amazing development in a short amount of time. I'd like to know what sort of computer and software is capable of controlling a car with this performance.
> 
> 
> How can you guarantee that you drive better than Schumacker on the street? Got anything to substantiate it? I strongly doubt your claim. If you're making a joke about him being disabled due to that awful accident, then I don't think that's in good taste.



Because for thirty years most of his driving is behind the wheel of a race car. Combine with his competitive nature, his mentality with a vehicle is far more aggressive. That doesn't mean he's a maniac, but his skill set lies in a more acute spectrum of experience.

Where as my driving history is 95% public roads as a general commuter - and I am really good at it.

It's true, he MAY have been better than myself, but the point still stands - auto racing drivers are not the best test resource.



qubit said:


> Also, I love driving, but I can also see the place of autonomous vehicles, which have many advantages. In my case, it would really help with any long distance driving, where fatigue tends to kick in and try to make me fall asleep at the wheel. One of my friends only lives 50 miles away, but I can't visit him during the working week because of this. I have to make sure I'm properly refreshed on the weekend and I can't stay too late. Give me an autonomous car and this wouldn't be an issue, plus I could even sleep on the way there.
> 
> The case is even stronger when I have to go a very long distance, say 200 miles or so, which I do sometimes when going to a football match with my friends. I make sure they do the driving and that they're up for it.



Humans also have the ability to reason, design and construct a plan to prevent or adapt to the example you gave. If you can't stay awake, then don't to the trip in a car.

I'd rather pay someone to drive me, than to let a machine take the wheel while I sleep and hope I wake up alive. Maybe you think a world with autonomous vehicles would be as 'safe' as the skies full of airplanes - but you'd be making a pretty big life risking gamble.


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## MilkyWay (Feb 22, 2015)

I really don't find this that impressive, if you can calculate the best racing line factoring in conditions and program a computer to follow it obviously it will time faster than a human being because you don't have to factor in human reflexes and timing. A driverless car learning itself the best racing line from a test lap would be impressive, tons of on the fly calculations involved.


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