# Copper anti seize grease as thermal paste?



## funboy6942 (Mar 9, 2020)

I bought a quarter pound of the stuff for a tune up for 8 bucks. While my friend was putting it on my plugs, it got me thinking, thermal paste applications. So I tried it, and why not? Copper dust in a lubricating grease that's good all the way up to 982c, so copper for thermal, great to keep it all together.

Right now I'm happy to report I went from around 52c-58c with my Amd spire max, and 3600x, to now at 42c-45c. I bought a noctua cooler that needs the am4 adapters to fit it to my 3600x, and will report back, maybe some pictures, if it held up for the week is been applied, and running 24/7. I will also be trying it on my 5700xt I have coming as well. When I applied it, it was like applying liquid metal, took hardly any to coat my cpu, much smaller amount then my Arctic MX4 to coat it all with it's copper goodness.

If you decide to try just keep in mind, that like liquid metal thermal it will conduct electricity, so be careful with it, and at 8 buck a quarter pound, and as liberal that is needed, I have a lifetime supply of it


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 9, 2020)

funboy6942 said:


> I bought a quarter pound of the stuff for a tube up for 8 bucks. While my friend was putting it on my plugs, it got me thinking, thermal paste applications. So I tried it, and why not? Copper dust in a lubricating grease that's good all the way up to 982c, so copper for thermal, great to keep it all together.
> 
> Right now I'm happy to report I went from around 52c-58c with my Amd spire max, and 3600x, to now at 42c-45c. I bought a noctua cooler that needs the am4 adapters to fit it to my 3600x, and will report back, maybe some pictures, if it held up for the week is been applied, and running 24/7. I will also be trying it on my 5700xt I have coming as well. When I applied it, it was like applying liquid metal, took hardly any to coat my cpu, much smaller amount then my Arctic MX4 to coat it all with it's copper goodness.
> 
> If you decide to try just keep in mind, that like liquid metal thermal it will conduct electricity, so be careful with it, and at 8 buck a quarter pound, and as liberal that is needed, I have a lifetime supply of it



Hope it doesnt creep off onto other parts and short out stuff.


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## funboy6942 (Mar 9, 2020)

I will know in 2 days, or before, but there was sooo little of it needing to be used, there was no ooze at all when needing to apply the heatsink on, unlike other paste I have used. It is really, really, really thin, and I thought of that as well, but I dont see how at all it will get out from under it. But if I am wrong, I guess it will be time to update to a x570 mobo, and a 3900x :O


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## Grog6 (Mar 9, 2020)

As long as you watch your temperatures, it should be all good.

Kyle used Cheese for a test, and didn't kill anything awhile back, so it shouldn't fail suddenly.

I've thought of this, but never gone thru with it; report back in a week, I'm interested.


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## erocker (Mar 9, 2020)

Thermal paste is made up of things with properties for heat transfer, anti-seize is not. It's already been tested quite a bit already.


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## funboy6942 (Mar 9, 2020)

If you know where I can see tests done with this stuff I'd love to read it, only because my temps have gone down about ten degrees using the copper variant of it, but would love to read the tests done on it for my own curiosity. But I will be testing my 5700xt at stock with the oem goop, then trying this considering how hot that GPU gets on that card.

And I would have too think this has some thermal capabilities to it due to needing the plugs to transfer is heat into the heads water jacket that's built in to cool the plugs off. Also back in the day, 90's, I did lots of working on Ford escorts with electronic ignition, that used electrolytic grease, kinda like this, to transfer the heat from it into the distributor, which I have tested as well, but pretty much liquefied under the heat sink. Since this has a working temp up to almost 900c, and a CPU gets to around 80ish c it shouldn't turn to liquid. I have my case sitting on its side ATM so if it does, it won't come out from under the sink. But I will report back, with pictures how it looks when my other parts show up, or dies in that time. I have my bios set up to shut it all down at 85c, but I just checked it, and it's still at the same temps as it was when I did it 5 days ago.


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## Jetster (Mar 9, 2020)

No, as it heats it becomes liquid.  Its a grease

" extremely high temperatures can cause lubrication problems due to thinning"


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## erocker (Mar 9, 2020)

Thermal paste is made for its purpose as is anti-seize. I'm sure it'll work, but with things like petroleum distillate and mineral oi, for how long? High probability of that stuff leaking out, burning up, evaporating, etc. There's thermal pastes that last many years and only needs one application. Seems to be just as cost effective and convenient using the proper product. 

As you can see, anti-seize has been tried many many times with varying results. 


			copper anti seize thermal grease - Google Search


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## revin (Mar 9, 2020)

I've used PermaTex Silver anti seize for over 10 years off and on, usually for just a few weeks at a time. 
It's about same as TG4 ect. 
Although it is fairly good at keeping temp in check, wasn't really a big deal.
Good for an "in between" usage when out of real TIM


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## Jetster (Mar 9, 2020)

On a expensive graphics card I wouldn't use anything  other the then approved paste. An old mechanic use to tell me "You think you are smarter them the man who designed it?"


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## joemama (Mar 10, 2020)

The problem of using anti seize as thermal paste won't be its thermal conductivity, but rather its electrical conductivity, there is a risk that it might liquify at certain circumstances and cause shortage


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## newtekie1 (Mar 10, 2020)

joemama said:


> The problem of using anti seize as thermal paste won't be its thermal conductivity, but rather its electrical conductivity, there is a risk that it might liquify at certain circumstances and cause shortage



The other issue I see is actually the opposite of that.  The stuff dries out pretty quickly.  I left the top off my bottle for a few days when I forgot to close it after using it, and it had gotten so thick I just had to throw the whole thing out.


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## Ntwlf (Mar 10, 2020)

Hmmm....seems many are against the OP's idea/suggestion and in providing personal experience sharing how he applied and tested it's affects good or bad. I applaud the OP for having the idea, taking any precautions he could think of and sharing the results.

A little refresher for the naysayers...There are are a number of thermal pastes that are electrically conductive such as Coollaboratory Products. The extreme PC enthusiasts wouldn't second guess delidding a non-soldered IHS (Integrated Heat Spreader) from the CPU die and applying a liquid metal based TIM (Thermal Interface Material) to the silicon chip and replacing the IHS back in place to get lower temps and higher over-clocks. (note: I have done this myself "Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra" on a I7-4790K CPU a few years ago and am still using same now without issue and neither have touched it since then).

The paste the OP is using is commonly known as "anti-seize", at least in the States. Here's a quick read...CRC Industries. The ingredients are similar to what's in some metal based TIM's so there is no reason why it wouldn't work. As the OP has noted he applied it pretty much in the same manner as directions would state for a liquid metal based TIM.

I wouldn't hesitate to use it should there be a time I have a PC apart (a heat-sink removed) doing repairs and/or cleaning and I don't have any good TIM on hand and have some ordered waiting on delivery. Especially if it also needs a fresh OS install and setup. The PC can be all fixed up in use and only require a few minutes changing out the TIM when it arrives.

The best use for it in my work is on exhaust system bolts and fasteners on any engine to allow dis-assembly at a later date for whatever repairs needed without the bolts and fasteners breaking creating more work and time to make a repair. As the OP started the post, the threads on engine spark-plugs need it as well especially with so many aluminum based engines out now. The threaded base of spark-plugs are steel and the engine cylinder head that it threads into is usually aluminum these days so without a lasting lubricant on the threads the aluminum parts can be damaged (known as thread galling or stripping) in removing the spark-plug incurring expensive repairs to the cylinder head.

I'm a 40+ years mostly "hands-on self-taught" mechanic/technician and I am still doing it. I'm not afraid to tackle anything I come across that doesn't function as it should. My interests are in anything mechanical to electrical and everywhere in between. Every manufacturer designs their parts differently even their own one model to the next to eliminate interchangeability. They keep trying to make it cheaper and cheaper, therefore it usually becomes poorly designed. Of course it's patented too so know one else can copy a potential excellent design. My giving credit to some designs that are very good. I can say "There are a lot of stupid things someone else has designed that I have either modified or replaced with something different altogether to make the item I'm trying to repair work as it should or better".



newtekie1 said:


> The other issue I see is actually the opposite of that.  The stuff dries out pretty quickly.  I left the top off my bottle for a few days when I forgot to close it after using it, and it had gotten so thick I just had to throw the whole thing out.



Yes the oils will dry out exposed to air but no need to throw it out, just pour a little bit of motor oil in the bottle (tablespoon) and stir it up. Good as new.

As far as using it for TIM it will eventually dry out but it's mostly the metal based ingredients that conduct the heat and will still be there, but still, if one see's cpu temps starting to run a little higher than normal just do a clean and re-apply of new TIM. There are a lot of cheap non-metal TIM's that dry out as well and need occasional re-apply.


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## thesmokingman (Mar 10, 2020)

Paste should not make a 10c difference unless the first mount was bad to begin with.


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## xvi (Mar 10, 2020)

A guy I know once asked me something similar, wanted to use graphite chain lube as a long-term fix for a laptop that was overheating. I told him absolutely not for the reasons everyone's already mentioned here.
I wouldn't trust it to not get everywhere and short something important out. Interesting that it works but so do other unconventional thermal paste materials.

That said, I'd be curious to see a comparison.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 10, 2020)

funboy6942 said:


> I bought a quarter pound of the stuff for a tune up for 8 bucks. While my friend was putting it on my plugs, it got me thinking, thermal paste applications. So I tried it, and why not? Copper dust in a lubricating grease that's good all the way up to 982c, so copper for thermal, great to keep it all together.
> 
> Right now I'm happy to report I went from around 52c-58c with my Amd spire max, and 3600x, to now at 42c-45c. I bought a noctua cooler that needs the am4 adapters to fit it to my 3600x, and will report back, maybe some pictures, if it held up for the week is been applied, and running 24/7. I will also be trying it on my 5700xt I have coming as well. When I applied it, it was like applying liquid metal, took hardly any to coat my cpu, much smaller amount then my Arctic MX4 to coat it all with it's copper goodness.
> 
> If you decide to try just keep in mind, that like liquid metal thermal it will conduct electricity, so be careful with it, and at 8 buck a quarter pound, and as liberal that is needed, I have a lifetime supply of it


Seems solid to me! Going to have to try this..



xvi said:


> That said, I'd be curious to see a comparison.


So would I!


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## Space Lynx (Mar 10, 2020)

newtekie1 said:


> The other issue I see is actually the opposite of that.  The stuff dries out pretty quickly.  I left the top off my bottle for a few days when I forgot to close it after using it, and it had gotten so thick I just had to throw the whole thing out.



*gasps* I do hope you are treating my baby NH-D14 well and not poisoning her with this non-sense. She usually likes the Noctua paste, but sometimes I found her quite enjoying some Arctic MX-4 when I wasn't looking...


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## PooPipeBoy (Mar 10, 2020)

I can't imagine that trying to remove a grease-based product from computer parts would be much fun. Not that removing thermal paste is very enjoyable to begin with, but lubricating grease can be pretty nasty and smears on everything (that's what it's supposed to do). Probably worth reading the Kopr-Kote MSDS and data sheet to see what's actually in it.


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## storm-chaser (Mar 10, 2020)

This topic and the oppositional responses remind me a little bit of the situation with oil injected two stroke jet skis of the late 90s and early 2000s. 

Dealers, mechanics and even the jet ski itself explicitly state you should never put any other oil in your engine other than the name brand, dealer only stuff. 

Even knowledgeable riders religiously put the over priced, dealer only oil in their boats. Well it turns out after owning many a jet ski, I can say without a doubt there is no risk to NOT running the name brand stuff. It's just cash cow gimmick that lot's of folks buy into because it makes them feel "safe". 

Not saying this stuff is a clear winner, but we should at least let it play out and let the guy get more data before we reach a conclusion.



PooPipeBoy said:


> I can't imagine that trying to remove a grease-based product from computer parts would be much fun. Not that removing thermal paste is very enjoyable to begin with, but lubricating grease can be pretty nasty and smears on everything (that's what it's supposed to do). Probably worth reading the Kopr-Kote MSDS and data sheet to see what's actually in it.


You could easily remove it with rubbing alcohol just like you do with standard heat sink paste. No difference, most likely.


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## Grog6 (Mar 10, 2020)

Here you go; it's not silicone based, it's grease based.

It includes limestone and talc as a thickener, and moly in addition to copper and graphite.



Not the best stuff for HSC, but better than Cheese. 



			https://xtex.com.au/wp-content/uploads/Kopr-Kote-SDS.pdf


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Mar 10, 2020)

Jetster said:


> On a expensive graphics card I wouldn't use anything  other the then approved paste. An old mechanic use to tell me "You think you are smarter them the man who designed it?"


So so many do lol.


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## storm-chaser (Mar 10, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> So so many do lol.


Good point!


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Mar 10, 2020)

storm-chaser said:


> Good point!


In every other thread half the people think they know better with only the specs or rumours about specs in mind never mind actual products.

But to be fair to enthusiasts, without there efforts would companies really push as hard as they do for us consumer's, probably not , and we here ,well some here do KNOW how to improve the performance above what the designers passed us.

Tim being one of the most important. And easiest thing to play around with.

Go liquid metal, do it carefully, correctly and then forget about it for a year, ad-hoc is just poorly preparing so you can fail later.
Why do more work than necessary.

Conduconaught or similar, the end. ..


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## ste2425 (Mar 10, 2020)

Interesting read, must say when i saw it appear in the recent threads i thought i was stil on the Ford forums.


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## Grog6 (Mar 10, 2020)

That is the right anti-seize to use on 3V plugs, so they'll come out without breaking, lol.


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## funboy6942 (Mar 10, 2020)

Ok follow up. There was some not understanding its properties. It has a operational property of negative Arctic with a wind chill, up to 982c (1800f), meaning it will keep it's property, or consistency between that range before it freezes, or turns into a liquid state at which point will evaporate. Since a CPU or GPU will never get close to that heat, it doesn't loose its properties, as you can see in the pic below when I removed the heat sink after 8 days straight being on 24/7 and being gamed on. I tried electrolytic grease once and it liquefied almost instantly, but this stuff was the exact same as it was when I applied it, and as you can see when I removed the sink it was see through on the CPU, and not much left on the sink at all as well. I also included a pic of what was needed to reapply it to the CPU, and what the CPU looked like before I installed my noctua cooler into it. It's not much at all and no where as much as what was needed when I used my Arctic MX4 paste to get complete coverage. As far as temps go, it seems to be idling around the same as before at 41c, but I think I fudged up the install and moved the cooler as I was tightening it down, so when I get home will reapply and check again. But as you can see in the pic it's settled at 41c.

But after doing all of this I will be checking it again in a month, or sooner if temps start to raise, but after seeing all of this, and temps, and not needing as much to get a ultra thin layer applied I have not a single problem at all using it from this point on as tim for my CPU or even GPU. Yes it is conductive, but so is a lot of other tim on the market, and even liquid metal for that matter, just got to be careful applying it on and make sure not too use much of out at all to ooze out shorting crap out in the process.

I will report back with pics of my 5700 xt temps before and after as well. At 8 bucks for a quarter lb, it will for sure last me a lifetime for it takes hardly at all to get full coverage, and it's like the same amount as liquid metal being applied, but instead of covering it with a qtip, you can use your finger to do so, and a whole hell of a lot cheaper, and tons more of it.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 10, 2020)

Grog6 said:


> Not the best stuff for HSC, but better than Cheese.
> 
> https://xtex.com.au/wp-content/uploads/Kopr-Kote-SDS.pdf


Having read through that, the properties of this stuff seem excellent for use as a TIM. Non-corrosive, excellent heat transfer properties by design and the grease does not melt or run until extreme temps are reached and let face facts, if a PC gets *THAT* hot, you have bigger problems than the TIM getting runny...

I've just ordered a bottle. Gonna try it out for giggles.


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## Jetster (Mar 10, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Having read through that, the properties of this stuff seem excellent for use as a TIM. Non-corrosive, excellent heat transfer properties by design and the grease does not melt or run until extreme temps are reached and let face facts, if a PC gets *THAT* hot, you have bigger problems than the TIM getting runny...
> 
> I've just ordered a bottle. Gonna try it out for giggles.


Let us know what happens


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Mar 11, 2020)

Thinking this went under a few radar's it's GPU copper grease time now fun.


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## hat (Mar 11, 2020)

You got before and after load temps?


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 11, 2020)

Jetster said:


> Let us know what happens


Will do.


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## delshay (Mar 11, 2020)

Show me temperature after 30 mins with Intel Burn Test.

Download https://www.techpowerup.com/download/intelburntest/


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## funboy6942 (Mar 11, 2020)

hat said:


> You got before and after load temps?



This is a shot I took few weeks ago when using the Amd Max cooler and Arctic Ceramic TIM. I dont have one how ever when I changed it to the Anti Seize grease, but did take a shot of it when I applied it to my Noctua cooler however. And you can see between them the clock speeds, the fan speed, and the temp diff between the Ceramic on the stock Amd max cooler, then the Anti grease on my Noctua. I will be posting the diff it makes, if any or not, again when my 5700xt shows up, thats for sure 

OK, I gathered some screen shots I made with the Amd Max cooler at full speed, and using Ryzen master to show clocks, and temps it was reporting. I also just did some screen shots of the Noctua cooler, at full speed, using the Anti seize grease. There seems to be a few degrees difference between the coolers, and the use of there thermal pastes. Also the Amd cooler does run a hell of a lot faster at full speeds then the noctua, which I made a screen shot of Nzxt showing the full speeds of both coolers, and what it was reporting as far as temps at a idle, or near idle, with not much, if at all cpu usage. I would think that if my Noctua fans could hit over 2K rpm like the Amd cooler, then there would of been a even bigger gap in temps, but as it is, Im happy with the results I got, and again, for me at least, am happy enough to keep using this paste due to cost, coverage, and results between them all I have used.

BTW the AMd cooler temps were taken, at full speed, and using Arctic MX4 2019 Edition. The very first pic is the Noctua cooler, not at full speed. The second is then with the fan curve with the Arctic paste, and cooler at max. The 3rd is the Noctua cooler with the copper grease at full speed.  The 4th is the Amd cooler, full speed, ryzen results before testing. The 5th is the Amd cooler, full speed right at the very end of the test results Ryzen master was reporting. The 6th one is the Noctua cooler, at full speed with the copper grease, fan at full speed Ryzen master reporting. And last one is what Ryzen master was reporting at the very end of the test using the Noctua cooler and copper grease.


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## neatfeatguy (Mar 11, 2020)

I see what you're doing in post #26 with the set of pictures........how you're secretly giving everyone the finger in picture number 4 without making it too obvious. Nice. 

I don't do much mechanic work on cars, but my step-dad has something similar that he used while doing work on cars, but it wasn't copper looking, it was silver in color. He said he's had the stuff for years, bought 1 container of it back in the late 80s and it's lasted him all this time (though his container is almost empty now).

This stuff seems interesting and I'd be up for trying it out, but that wouldn't be until I got a new build and that might for another good 12 months from now. I'm interested in any future updates you have to share.


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## r.h.p (Mar 11, 2020)

funboy6942 said:


> I bought a quarter pound of the stuff for a tune up for 8 bucks. While my friend was putting it on my plugs, it got me thinking, thermal paste applications. So I tried it, and why not? Copper dust in a lubricating grease that's good all the way up to 982c, so copper for thermal, great to keep it all together.
> 
> Right now I'm happy to report I went from around 52c-58c with my Amd spire max, and 3600x, to now at 42c-45c. I bought a noctua cooler that needs the am4 adapters to fit it to my 3600x, and will report back, maybe some pictures, if it held up for the week is been applied, and running 24/7. I will also be trying it on my 5700xt I have coming as well. When I applied it, it was like applying liquid metal, took hardly any to coat my cpu, much smaller amount then my Arctic MX4 to coat it all with it's copper goodness.
> 
> If you decide to try just keep in mind, that like liquid metal thermal it will conduct electricity, so be careful with it, and at 8 buck a quarter pound, and as liberal that is needed, I have a lifetime supply of it


not sure about your paste , but I removed the cement from the amd prism , for artic silver 5 and my cpu temp dropped 8c under full load. I've also used altronics thermal grease which is dirt cheap for the same result , seems yeah good move....


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## jsfitz54 (Mar 11, 2020)

The other Jet-Lube product :  SS-30 is 30% copper and may work even better.  It's twice as much $ for the 1/4 lb size.






						Amazon.com: Jet-Lube SS-30 - Pure Copper | High Temperature | Anti-Seize | Military Grade | Environmentally Preferred | Thread Compound | 1/4 Lb.: Industrial & Scientific
					

Amazon.com: Jet-Lube SS-30 - Pure Copper | High Temperature | Anti-Seize | Military Grade | Environmentally Preferred | Thread Compound | 1/4 Lb.: Industrial & Scientific



					www.amazon.com
				







Size:*1/4 pound*
Works as a similar and dissimilar metal between two metal surfaces to prevent seizing. This compound formula will not melt in high temperatures and improves conductivity and ground continuity. Designed for specially formulated to prevent excessive over torque and has a very high static friction factor of 0.13, the unique blend of complex thickeners to help evenly distribute the copper flake unto the metal surfaces to eliminate metal to threaded metal contact. Recommended lubrication: stud threads shall be thoroughly lubricated on both ends, fill the threaded area "Root - to - Crest" on the stud/bolt. The nut will push the anti-seize down the threads as it travels. Bearing surfaces between nut and hardened washer or nut and flange should be lubricated with anti-seize in the area where the nut will rest against the flange or washer. Anti-seize on the assembly should be easily visible. Not recommended for: not for use on oxygen lines. Not intended for use with aluminum where galvanic corrosion could be a significant issue. Petroleum based lubricating grease with copper filling. Personal precautions: wear gloves and protective overalls. Environmental precautions: do not allow it to enter drains. Spillage: scrape up bulk, then wipe up remainder with cloth. To prevent walking hazard, pick up remaining residue with diatomaceous earth. Handling: no special handling precautions necessary. Storage: Do not store at elevated temperatures. Respiratory protection: none needed. Hand protection: nitrile gloves for hypersensitive persons. Anti-seize thread lubricant and conductive termination compound is *30 percent high purity/refined copper flake* mixed in a high temp non-melt base grease formula that aids in conductivity and is an ideal anti-seize compound for threaded fasteners and cable connections. Appearance: bright copper. K-factor: 0.13. Service rating: -65 degree F to 1800 degree F. Eco-certified. Size: 1/4 lbs brush top can.


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## funboy6942 (Mar 11, 2020)

Dang, had I seen that stuff, and at the time of buying it for my tune up, and thought of using it also as TIM, I would of gotten it. But since I have so much of this stuff left I already bought, and pretty decent results, I wont be trying it for about 100 years. But maybe my son at that point when I will it to him, and he continues building computer at that time, provided it isnt all cloud based crap, will update it to your children the results


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## John Naylor (Mar 11, 2020)

What is the purpose of testing TIm when CPU usage is 1%, 2% and 11% ....   If you want to test TIM performance, Run RoG Real Bench and  post those results.


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## funboy6942 (Mar 11, 2020)

If you took the time to look at the pictures to see the idle temps and speed and all, why didnt you look at the ones little ways up where I also put it under a load, using cinebench, and the Ryzen master software, showing the diff with the fan curve set to 100%, and the amd pushing well over 2K fan speed, and the Noctua doing a max of 1300K?

The pics, as you can see by looking at them, show they was taken right at the end run, in single core test 

Even at under a load, there is a 3-5 degree diff, but need to take in effect the cost of a quarter lb of this stuff, vs a few oz's of say the Arctic MX4. The fact you only need a very little tiny dab of the Anti seize vs Arctic to get a full coat with minimal ooze. And that the Amd fan set at 100% is over 2K rpm, and the Noctua is only around 1300K rpm, keeping the thermals down little bit better under a load, and a ton quieter vs the Amd max cooler with the much lower rpm, and much bigger dual fans.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 11, 2020)

Update, Amazon canceled my order for lack of stock, so I just went to Autozone and got a 1oz tube of similar stuff for $5. Going to try it out tomorrow when a new CPU arrives for a system I'm upgrading.


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## Jetster (Mar 11, 2020)

Take pics what it looks like after testing


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## John Naylor (Mar 12, 2020)

funboy6942 said:


> If you took the time to look at the pictures to see the idle temps and speed and all, why didnt you look at the ones little ways up where I also put it under a load, using cinebench, and the Ryzen master software, showing the diff with the fan curve set to 100%, and the amd pushing well over 2K fan speed, and the Noctua doing a max of 1300K?
> 
> The pics, as you can see by looking at them, show they was taken right at the end run, in single core test
> 
> Even at under a load, there is a 3-5 degree diff, but need to take in effect the cost of a quarter lb of this stuff, vs a few oz's of say the Arctic MX4. The fact you only need a very little tiny dab of the Anti seize vs Arctic to get a full coat with minimal ooze. And that the Amd fan set at 100% is over 2K rpm, and the Noctua is only around 1300K rpm, keeping the thermals down little bit better under a load, and a ton quieter vs the Amd max cooler with the much lower rpm, and much bigger dual fans.



1,  For one... I don't want to get a case of RSI clicking on dozens of pictures.  If you want answers, don't make it so hard for readers to get them.  I responded to post 33, saw nothing of value that I could read in those pics
2.  In viewing them have to squint to read the numbers and then still guessing due to clarity
3.  Don't find Cinebench indicative or true results, don't find single core tests of any value.

If you took the time to type the results, use appropriate testing likely to present real world worse case conditions and load all cores, the results could be compared with those expected.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 13, 2020)

Ok, so update. Tried out the copper grease and the temps didn't vary at all. The CPU fan didn't even spin up under Intel Burn Test.


Yes, I only tested the original dual core the system had as the replacement CPU was damaged in shipping(thanx UPS).

The OP wasn't kidding, this stuff is the real deal. I wonder what the long-term effects would be?..


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## DeathtoGnomes (Mar 13, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ok, so update. Tried out the copper grease and the temps didn't vary at all. The CPU fan didn't even spin up under Intel Burn Test.
> View attachment 147998
> View attachment 147999
> Yes, I only tested the original dual core the system had as the replacement CPU was damaged in shipping(thanx UPS).
> ...


that looks like a thick layer, more than what you need.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 13, 2020)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> that looks like a thick layer, more than what you need.


It looks thicker than it was and the excess squeezed out the side like normal TIM's do. Didn't drip or anything as the grease was very thick.


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## KainXS (Mar 13, 2020)

I'm thinking about grabbing some of this for some larger stuff that I would normally use the cheap silicone stuff on myself.


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## hat (Mar 13, 2020)

Hmm... I'll stick to mx-4. I don't do enough applications to warrant buying something like this, heh


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 13, 2020)

KainXS said:


> I'm thinking about grabbing some of this for some larger stuff that I would normally use the cheap silicone stuff on myself.


Might be worth try, I've run the Intel Burn Test several times. Not only does this stuff work well, the heatsink seems to cool off faster than it did with normal TIM. I'm actually really impressed with it.


hat said:


> Hmm... I'll stick to mx-4. I don't do enough applications to warrant buying something like this, heh


That's fair. I desided to try this stuff out of pure scientific curiosity.


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## PooPipeBoy (Mar 13, 2020)

Just something to be aware of is the oil separation (ASTM D-6184), which can be an issue where oil can weep from grease products at elevated temperatures. It's not really an issue on farm machinery that are usually greasy anyway, but I'd keep an eye on it with computer gear. Could be argued that a 3% loss by volume at 100C from a little smear of anti-seize would be next to nothing, but still it's a real thing. Also want to make sure that it doesn't do any weird staining on the IHS that could become a problem when you go to resell your CPU. But hey, if those things aren't an issue then the stuff seems to be alright.


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## funboy6942 (Mar 13, 2020)

I myself am very happy with my results, and the results lexluthermiester has gotten in his tests as well. I said I was going to check it again within a months time to make sure it hasnt turned into water, or dried out, but Im thinking I am going to wait 5-6 months. I will be keeping an eye on my temps at idle, and under load the whole time I wait to pull my heat sink. Also since this stuff has a operating temp before it will change its make up, arctic temps, -54c, and the sun, 982c, and also the fact that in a automotive application, its not to change its properties when put on like spark plugs, you apply it, and then dont change your plugs for 100K which can be upwards of over 8 years, and at that point, its properties shouldnt have changed, meaning no drying up, or turning to liquid, under a MUCH hotter load caused by heat of the head and combustion. Those temps in a car application, get MUCH hotter, and more changes in temp variants then my cpu, or gpu, will ever get to. So since it wont changes its make up within those temps, and in a car application where temps get much much much hotter then a cpu, and its not designed to break up, but keep its make up within the low temps, and extreme high temps, I cannot see this stuff turning to liquid, or drying up any time soon at all.

I tried this due to almost running out of my Arctic MX4 2019, and Arctic ceramic tim because I ALWAYS  keep reapplying my tim very often, on everything, including my motherboard heat sinks, for I change that stuff the moment I get a new board, if its not using pads, I never use what comes on a new heat sink, rubbing alcohol and rag to the rescue, and as soon as I get a new video card, I remove the heat sink and put on much better tim I have on hand to replace that crappy stuff they use. So I will report back on this if my temps change sooner, and I will also take pictures in 5-6 months time, seeing what the paste has turned into, or not into, for I am very curious. And since this stuff works a little better then both my Arctic tim's I own, and the cost is SOOOOOOOOOOO much cheaper, and get SOOOOOOOOO much more of this stuff, that if it passes what Ill be putting my cpu and gpu, which as mentioned I have a new 5700xt coming soon, and will be testing its heat stock, and then when I remove the oem paste with this stuff, with pictures, I am not afraid at all in using this stuff from this point forward as my new tim  

If you dont want to try it, thats fine, Im not pushing ANYONE in trying this stuff, its just I felt the need to mention I DID try it, and could say that in my applications, that I feel its working as good, or slightly better, then what I been using, had used, and tests I have tried it with, and felt I should post my results and feeling on this stuff, due to how much you get of it, for the cost of it, vs what a small tube of other stuff, could cost much more then a quarter lb of this stuff, with same or better results as I have seen testing it out. So before you post this stuff is crap, without ever trying it out for yourself, and saying this thread is crap, do what some of has tried, and apply it right, as if it is liquid metal, since it does conduct electricity, like some tim's on the market, and see for yourself, its cheap, and takes but a few minutes of your time applying it, and testing it, see if it will really work for you. And before you post that this stuff will turn to liquid, or dry up faster, you need to understand its working temp properties, for I think it exceeds standard tim, and will be testing it out to make sure, because under a automotive application, you apply it to much hotter sources on a car, and its there for years on end, and made NOT to dry up in that time, evaporate, and freeze, under much more extreme conditions, then putting on a cpu or gpu that doesnt come remotely close to what a gpu or cpu temp will ever get to to change its properties at all 

Im not endorsed in any way with any company to sell you this stuff, force you to buy and use it, or anything like that. Im just a guy, disabled, with some extra time on his hands, thats been doing computers since my very first when I was a kid, a vic 20, and trying all things under the sun, for fun and something to do in my spare time. I ove to post up, or mention my results, if I feel they are valid, and think it would benefit others as well in the process, nothing more. Take it as that, if you want to try it too, cool, post your results good or bad, if not thats fine too, but if not, please dont thread crap in here as if you know better then what I have done, or dont understand its properties and make up, before you think of posting. I and other have tried it so far and have confirmed my results and theirs as well. Also if you trying it and find it worse then what you are using, post those results!!! Id love to know whats better then what I have found or bought, for I want, and need, my stuff to last as long as it will by keeping it as cool as I can, and not afraid to try something new at all, even, like this stuff, it wasnt made for a "cpu" at all, but tried it anyway and found it to work.The only thing left at this point is in time, is it really going to change its make up at all, though according to the manufactures, its will take some serious heat before it will, and since its applied in automotive, in extreme weather, and much hotter temps, its designed not to change when years latter you remove plugs, wheel nuts (which will get hotter then a head, because the friction from brake being applied, will transfer into the wheel nuts, on and off).

Sorry for the book, and my grammars nut beings good, my edumacations system fell on my as childs, and wasnt tought properties. My bads, and thanks for sticking with it if you read all that craps :O If you know of other stuff and would like me to try it, LMK, and I have no problem at all trying other stuff out, for my own curiosity, and something to do and test out for fun


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## KainXS (Mar 13, 2020)

I mean it can be any copper anti seize grease right. I have a rasberry pi with a case that acts as a heatsink with some larger heatsinks attatched so this stuff might be perfect to attatch the heatsinks to the case.


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## Vario (Mar 13, 2020)

KainXS said:


> I mean it can be any copper anti seize grease right. I have a rasberry pi with a case that acts as a heatsink with some larger heatsinks attatched so this stuff might be perfect to attatch the heatsinks to the case.


Its electrically conductive and it thins out under (very high) heat so keep that in mind.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 13, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Just something to be aware of is the oil separation (ASTM D-6184), which can be an issue where oil can weep from grease products at elevated temperatures. It's not really an issue on farm machinery that are usually greasy anyway, but I'd keep an eye on it with computer gear. Could be argued that a 3% loss by volume at 100C from a little smear of anti-seize would be next to nothing, but still it's a real thing. Also want to make sure that it doesn't do any weird staining on the IHS that could become a problem when you go to resell your CPU. But hey, if those things aren't an issue then the stuff seems to be alright.


That's very unlikely to happen with this stuff as it's formulated to very high temp exposure.



KainXS said:


> I mean it can be any copper anti seize grease right. I have a rasberry pi with a case that acts as a heatsink with some larger heatsinks attatched so this stuff might be perfect to attatch the heatsinks to the case.


Yes, that would likely work very well.



Vario said:


> Its electrically conductive and it thins out under (very high) heat so keep that in mind.


No computing device will get hot enough to cause "thinning".

I'm going to conduct a test with this stuff for a month on one of my personal systems. I am interested in the semi-long-term results. If things go well, a longer test might be indicated.


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## dorsetknob (Mar 13, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> unlikely to happen with this stuff as it's formulated to very high temp exposure.


Considering Copper anti sieze grease is formulated for general Motor Trade use 
its interesting to see it used "on CPU's"

If you have ever Replaced your Car/truck/ motorcycle Disk pads and you have Dolloped the Copperslip  ( a Brand name )  on the Back of the pads  your Realize how Hot those pads get slowing you down and that grease sticks to the back of those pads.

Bonus as its copper based and not liq Metal   it wont eat your Ali heatsink

Cooler master do a Copper based ( well its Copper coloured ) TIM


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## silentbogo (Mar 13, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> I'm going to conduct a test with this stuff for a month on one of my personal systems. I am interested in the semi-long-term results. If things go well, a longer test might be indicated.


It's a lubricant, and has a heat conductivity of a low-end paste. I assume the only long-term consequence is going to be "easy-to-remove heatsink"     
BTW, that stuff looks awfully similar to cheap Polish copper TIM (also conductive), only with slightly larger particles. I'm sure the only difference between anti-seize and proper copper TIM  is just the particle size and concentration in suspension. Even Coollaboratory Liquid Copper essentially is just a mix of silicone and nano-particles of copper.


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## PooPipeBoy (Mar 13, 2020)

funboy6942 said:


> I tried this due to almost running out of my Arctic MX4 2019, and Arctic ceramic tim because I ALWAYS  keep reapplying my tim very often, on everything, including my motherboard heat sinks, for I change that stuff the moment I get a new board, if its not using pads, I never use what comes on a new heat sink, rubbing alcohol and rag to the rescue, and as soon as I get a new video card, I remove the heat sink and put on much better tim I have on hand to replace that crappy stuff they use. So I will report back on this if my temps change sooner, and I will also take pictures in 5-6 months time, seeing what the paste has turned into, or not into, for I am very curious. And since this stuff works a little better then both my Arctic tim's I own, and the cost is SOOOOOOOOOOO much cheaper, and get SOOOOOOOOO much more of this stuff, that if it passes what Ill be putting my cpu and gpu, which as mentioned I have a new 5700xt coming soon, and will be testing its heat stock, and then when I remove the oem paste with this stuff, with pictures, I am not afraid at all in using this stuff from this point forward as my new tim



Not sure if you're aware, but the GD900 thermal paste from Aliexpress is good if you want decent bulk thermal paste for cheap. It's like $3 for a 30g syringe. I switched over from Arctic MX-5 ($8 for 3.5g) and have found it to be pretty similar in performance. I've been using it for a year now and it's been great.



lexluthermiester said:


> That's very unlikely to happen with this stuff as it's formulated to very high temp exposure.



Maybe. The autoignition temperature is only 260C, which is the point where it spontaneously combusts. It doesn't have to get that hot to start doing stuff like weeping oil (just check out the oil separation tests which happens at 100C) or changing viscosity. Unlikely yes, but not unheard of. It might be formulated for high temperatures but after working as an engineer I've taught myself to not pay any attention to that kind of marketing bullshit, even if it's from a company worth their salt. But if it lasts a few months with no issues then it'll probably be fine.


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## Grog6 (Mar 14, 2020)

Hmmm; unrelated, but I've just found out that NaK eats the nickel layer off copper waterblocks.

It's also too viscous to flow thru a standard water pump.

Anyone know a low-power version of a Hallam-style Sodium pump?

BTW, Water, as always, is great for removing NaK from waterblocks.


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## lsevald (Mar 14, 2020)

Nice results and a fun project! I'm curious as to how well it will hold up after a few months of abuse. I'm sure you are aware, but one of the bigger challenges of making thermal compound is the "pump-out effect" and also separation, from wikipedia:



> The consistency of thermal grease makes it susceptible to failure mechanisms distinct from some other thermal interface materials. A common one is pump-out, which is the loss of thermal grease from between the die and the heat sink due to their differing rates of thermal expansion and contraction. Over a large number of power cycles, thermal grease gets pumped out from between the die and the heat sink and eventually causes degradation of thermal performance.[4]
> 
> Another issue with some compounds is the separation of the polymer and filler matrix components occurs under high temperatures. The loss of polymeric material can result in poor wettability, leading to increased thermal resistance.[4]




That's why some makers of high performance thermal compounds recommends that you replace the compound fairly often (once a year for instance), because there's a trade off you have to make when you make this stuff; long lasting, or high performance. That's also why the compound used between the CPU die and heat spreader on a CPU isn't performing so good, as it has to last for the entire lifespan of the CPU. 

I recently serviced a 780ti which had not been re-gooped since it was bought, and upgraded with a water block and a high performance thermal compound  (I suspect it was Gelid Extreme) back in 2013-14, and now 6-7 years later, there was absolutely no visible compound on the die itself, or the contact area of the block, only some on the sides. Shiny as brand new, wish I had a picture of it


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 14, 2020)

silentbogo said:


> I assume the only long-term consequence is going to be "easy-to-remove heatsink"


Oh yeah, it was very easy. That's a point in it's favor in my book.


PooPipeBoy said:


> But if it lasts a few months with no issues then it'll probably be fine.





lsevald said:


> Nice results and a fun project! I'm curious as to how well it will hold up after a few months of abuse. I'm sure you are aware, but one of the bigger challenges of making thermal compound is the "pump-out effect" and also separation


And that is what I'm testing, to see what it does.


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## PooPipeBoy (Mar 14, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Oh yeah, it was very easy. That's a point in it's favor in my book.
> 
> And that is what I'm testing, to see what it does.



You know, there's places online that sell empty syringe tubes to make application easier. Especially in the medical industry they manufacture them by the truckload. Luer slip tips (they have a pluggable tip) would be what you'd want I reckon. I looked them up and they have 10 x 50mL tubes for like $15. Saves having to deal with the applicator brush that comes with those things.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 14, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> You know, there's places online that sell empty syringe tubes to make application easier. Especially in the medical industry they manufacture them by the truckload. Luer slip tips (they have a pluggable tip) would be what you'd want I reckon. I looked them up and they have 10 x 50mL tubes for like $15. Saves having to deal with the applicator brush that comes with those things.


Nah. The 1oz tube makes for easy application.


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## Susquehannock (Mar 14, 2020)

Ahhh ... this again.



erocker said:


> Thermal paste is made up of things with properties for heat transfer, anti-seize is not. It's already been tested quite a bit already.


Yes it has. Can remember at least one person using it and was very upset how there was a hard brownish coating on their IHS that had to be removed with sandpaper. Probably deposits from the oils evaporating. Being one who has used these type products as intended use for decades will say that certainly does happen.



thesmokingman said:


> Paste should not make a 10c difference unless the first mount was bad to begin with.


My thought as well. I'd be more impressed if the results were an average over dozens of applications.



delshay said:


> Show me temperature after 30 mins with Intel Burn Test.


Or after several days or weeks of use. According to the SDS shared in post #20, this product is at least 60% "Lubricating Greases" by weight. How thermally conductive are those? How about those organic salts listed? Reactionary with your metals? One reason they are there.


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## PooPipeBoy (Mar 14, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Nah. The 1oz tube makes for easy application.



Suit yourself.



Susquehannock said:


> Ahhh ... this again.
> 
> Yes it has. Can remember at least one person using it and was very upset how there was a hard brownish coating on their IHS that had to be removed with sandpaper. Probably deposits from the oils evaporating. Being one who has used these type products as intended use for decades will say that certainly does happen.
> 
> ...



There's plenty of reasons not to do it, but a lot of people like to do these kind of experiments for the kicks. I'd try it for myself but I use lanolin as general purpose anti-seize and don't have any copper stuff, so I'd need to buy some. Already got my thermal paste situation sorted out with the GD900 so I don't need it for that purpose either.


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## Susquehannock (Mar 14, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Suit yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> There's plenty of reasons not to do it, but a lot of people like to do these kind of experiments for the kicks. I'd try it for myself but I use lanolin as general purpose anti-seize and don't have any copper stuff, so I'd need to buy some. Already got my thermal paste situation sorted out with the GD900 so I don't need it for that purpose either.


Yeah, for sure. All about trying things out. Was mentioning some possible side effects and shortcomings. Have three types of antiseize here depending on the metal used on but never considered using one as a TIM because of all the grease, and the comparatively low metal content.

Tried many things myself. Best was the water based 10,000 aluminum oxide polishing compound. Same ingredient in most ceramic based TIMs, including AS Ceramique. Determined that performed better since the particles were more randomized in size.

So who wants to try the 3M copper foil tape?






						3M™ Conductive Copper Foil Tape 3313 | 3M United States
					






					www.3m.com


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## biffzinker (Mar 14, 2020)

I'll stick with the graphite pad I'm still using. The copper foil as a TIM is something worth trying.


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## silentbogo (Mar 14, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> The copper foil as a TIM is something worth trying.


Back in a day I used to see those in laptops. Not so much now. I think the last time I've seen that in a 2012 Google Nexus tablet, and it didn't work very well.
That's only good for low-TDP chips, e.g. sub-15W, e.g. same application scope as thermal pads.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Mar 14, 2020)

Vario said:


> Its electrically conductive and it thins out under (very high) heat so keep that in mind.


pretty vague there when you say very high heat, assuming you read the posted pdf, means over 950 degrees.


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## Grog6 (Mar 14, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> ... The copper foil as a TIM is something worth trying.



No, not really. 

You would still want a interface material between and both surfaces, making it a shim.

The adhesive on it is electrically conductive, and not very thermally conductive.

it makes great electrical shielding for stuff, if you're making a Faraday cage.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 17, 2020)

Another update, I tested again, this time with the 2500k that was intended for the system, Optiplex 390.
First test with MX4 and Intel Burn Test;


The next was the copper grease and Intel Burn Test;

These pictures are after a fresh boot. The metric to pay attention to is the max temps in the monitor window.

The differences in max temps were small, not enough to make a difference long term. Additionally, the IHS and Heatsink neither had any blemishing. So far this stuff is impressive!


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 8, 2020)

By way of an update, the copper grease is still going strong and is still keeping temps in the same good range they were after first being applied. I'm actually very impressed with this stuff. This includes my personal rig, which has a Xeon W3680 that regularly gets bumped to 4ghz for heavy tasks. Temps stay good even with the OC.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Jun 8, 2020)

any signs of it leaking out from underneath?


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 8, 2020)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> any signs of it leaking out from underneath?


None. Not expecting it, to be fair. The stuff is very viscus and because it's designed for high temp environments, it shouldn't get runny at all given the operating temp in question. Not expecting it to dry out either, for the same reasons.


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## funboy6942 (Jun 8, 2020)

I must say too that I am happy. Did my cpu and gpu with the stuff, and so far no leaking, like I have had with some cheaper paste I have used from china, and both looked like the day I applied it. So I put more on it and let it be for now again. And yeah, temps "may" be 1-2 degrees more, but considering how much I paid for all of this, just as long, like liquid metal, I apply it right, there isnt a chance I see of it messing anything up, or eat away at my heat sink, like liquid metal will do to certain sinks depending on what they are made from. So after me trying it, and a few others, and report the same findings I have seen, well worth it in my book, and with as much as I have, I wont need any for a very, very long time. Now I got to see after a year or so if it dries up like other stuff I have used in the past, for I really want to know about this next.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 8, 2020)

funboy6942 said:


> I must say too that I am happy. Did my cpu and gpu with the stuff, and so far no leaking, like I have had with some cheaper paste I have used from china, and both looked like the day I applied it. So I put more on it and let it be for now again. And yeah, temps "may" be 1-2 degrees more, but considering how much I paid for all of this, just as long, like liquid metal, I apply it right, there isnt a chance I see of it messing anything up, or eat away at my heat sink, like liquid metal will do to certain sinks depending on what they are made from. So after me trying it, and a few others, and report the same findings I have seen, well worth it in my book, and with as much as I have, I wont need any for a very, very long time. Now I got to see after a year or so if it dries up like other stuff I have used in the past, for I really want to know about this next.


Yeah, I get the feeling this is going to be a long term thread. We'll have to come back in 6 months and again in a year.


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## micropage7 (Jun 8, 2020)

funboy6942 said:


> I must say too that I am happy. Did my cpu and gpu with the stuff, and so far no leaking, like I have had with some cheaper paste I have used from china, and both looked like the day I applied it. So I put more on it and let it be for now again. And yeah, temps "may" be 1-2 degrees more, but considering how much I paid for all of this, just as long, like liquid metal, I apply it right, there isnt a chance I see of it messing anything up, or eat away at my heat sink, like liquid metal will do to certain sinks depending on what they are made from. So after me trying it, and a few others, and report the same findings I have seen, well worth it in my book, and with as much as I have, I wont need any for a very, very long time. Now I got to see after a year or so if it dries up like other stuff I have used in the past, for I really want to know about this next.


looks nice but i feel you need to test it under high temp or high pressure to see how it will react. and i agree you need to see how it reacts to aluminum or copper too


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## funboy6942 (Jun 8, 2020)

well my sink is made from copper, and when I checked it, its showing no signs of corrosion as of yet. As far as testing it for high temps and pressure, I really dont see a need to test it past what I am already doing with it, under every day use. I have no way of putting my sink on tighter, nor do I was to run it at ungodly temps to blow it up to see if this stuff will turn into a liquid. It works just fine for my applications of surfing, and playing games, and the results are just like other good paste I have tried, with maybe a 1-2 degree higher in temps under normal loads and temps, so I am happy to report these finding of my long term test.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 9, 2020)

micropage7 said:


> looks nice but i feel you need to test it under high temp or high pressure to see how it will react.


Heatsink clamped to a CPU. That's really all the pressure testing needed. By "high temps", what do you mean? Anything above 100c is a waste of time as CPU just will not get any hotter than that before throttling themselves.


micropage7 said:


> and i agree you need to see how it reacts to aluminum or copper too


That's easy, none. Copper and the suspension material have no effect on the stock heatsink being used with one of the systems being tested thus far.


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## Caring1 (Jun 9, 2020)

micropage7 said:


> looks nice but i feel you need to test it under high temp or high pressure to see how it will react. and i agree you need to see how it reacts to aluminum or copper too


Having used copper grease in the automotive industry I can vouch that it works very well under extreme temps and under high pressure, much higher than an average computer or CPU will produce.


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## PooPipeBoy (Jul 16, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> I can't imagine that trying to remove a grease-based product from computer parts would be much fun. Not that removing thermal paste is very enjoyable to begin with, but lubricating grease can be pretty nasty and smears on everything (that's what it's supposed to do). Probably worth reading the Kopr-Kote MSDS and data sheet to see what's actually in it.



I finally tried this little experiment for myself and stand by my original comments: Copper seize is nasty shit that shouldn't be anywhere near a computer. It takes AGES to clean it off properly and it ends up everywhere. It performs terrible as a thermal paste. My temps were rocketing up to 90C and continuing to climb. And it's electrically conductive. 0/10 would not recommend. Give me a tube of GD900 thermal paste any day.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 16, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> My temps were rocketing up to 90C and continuing to climb.


Then you either applied it wrong or used the wrong type of antiseize. I'm still on the original application that was tried months backs with an i5-2500k. The temps are still doing well, within 2 to 3 degrees C of the original TIM. I've also got it on a W3680 that has been OC'd to 4.1ghz. No problems.

I'm not saying everyone should run right out and buy the stuff, but it does work and can be handy in a pinch.

(PS, hope that doesn't seem too aggressive, didn't mean to attack you directly..)


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## Icon Charlie (Jul 16, 2020)

Caring1 said:


> Having used copper grease in the automotive industry I can vouch that it works very well under extreme temps and under high pressure, much higher than an average computer or CPU will produce.


Old gear head here and yes I can say that as well. Worked on a lot of motorcycles back in the day, until things got stupid. This reminds me of something I learned over 45 years ago (god I'm getting old)  when I used to go hunting.  I was taught by an old timer back then to lube your fire arms with  10/30 auto oil.   It works.

I can tell you the thousands of dollars over the years saved by not buying brand name fire arm lube.  Only a thin amount is needed and it will protect the fire arm in question. 

It's the same concept with what we have what we have with using something from one industry and applying it to another.



lexluthermiester said:


> Then you either applied it wrong or used the wrong type of antiseize. I'm still on the original application that was tried months backs with an i5-2500k. The temps are still doing well, within 2 to 3 degrees C of the original TIM. I've also got it on a W3680 that has been OC'd to 4.1ghz. No problems.
> 
> I'm not saying everyone should run right out and buy the stuff, but it does work and can be handy in a pinch.
> 
> (PS, hope that doesn't seem to aggressive, didn't mean to attack you directly..)


Thank you for your input.  I have heard of using stuff like this and other things over the years.  I never really need to use the copper anti seize due to having a great deal of Arctic Silver on hand.   

I would love to see a 6 month and a year report  and if it is stable then yea I'll try it just because 
I'm also one of them guys that blows out the case every 2 to 3 months and every year change out the GPU/CPU grease just because.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 16, 2020)

Icon Charlie said:


> I would love to see a 6 month and a year report and if it is stable then yea I'll try it just because


That's in progress. 4ish months in on one PC and a couple months on the other, both unlocked CPUs and both being OC'd using ThrottleStop(thank you @unclewebb )
Will continue to keep things updated as things progress. So far, the copper grease works well and has no ill effects.


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## PooPipeBoy (Jul 16, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Then you either applied it wrong or used the wrong type of antiseize. I'm still on the original application that was tried months backs with an i5-2500k. The temps are still doing well, within 2 to 3 degrees C of the original TIM. I've also got it on a W3680 that has been OC'd to 4.1ghz. No problems.
> 
> I'm not saying everyone should run right out and buy the stuff, but it does work and can be handy in a pinch.
> 
> (PS, hope that doesn't seem to aggressive, didn't mean to attack you directly..)



I checked and my anti-seize (ITW Devcon Stop-Seize Copper) isn't very different from the Kopr-Kote. Same copper percentage, same graphite percentage. Considering that grease (largely an oil-based product) is such a terrible thermal conductor, I still have a hard time believing that any anti-seize can perform comparably to dedicated thermal paste.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 16, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> I checked and my anti-seize (ITW Devcon Stop-Seize Copper) isn't very different from the Kopr-Kote. Same copper percentage, same graphite percentage.


Actually, there is a significant chemical difference. Please review the documents below.


			https://www.itwpf.com.au/devcon/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2016/09/Devcon-Stop-Seize-Copper-180305.pdf
		



			https://docs.jetlube.com/documents/SDS+-+Central+Repository-/SDS's+REPOSITORY/Australia/Jet-Lube/Kopr%20Kote_SDS_AUS_En.pdf
		

As you can see from those documents there is a significant amount of graphite and zinc mixed into the Devcon product, whereas the KoprKote has copper, a slight amount of calcium and petroleum compounds.

The stuff I'm using, found a local auto parts store, has a different brand name but is still a Devcon product. But it also has a different formulation from the two above;


			http://www.itwconsumer.com/userfiles/files/msds/VC-MSDS/13109.pdf
		


Those differences could be making an impact in thermal performance when used a TIM.


PooPipeBoy said:


> Considering that grease (largely an oil-based product) is such a terrible thermal conductor, I still have a hard time believing that any anti-seize can perform comparably to dedicated thermal paste.


Did you spread it out thin like I did in the picture earlier in the thread? Try it again and see what happens.


----------



## Shoog (Jul 16, 2020)

Hi,
Just registered to add my own experience.
I was caught short of thermal paste about a year ago and living out in the stixx I was going to have to wait for a while to get a delivery so I decided to experiment.
I used copper slip, but I also added graphite to the mix. I got the graphite from a lead pencil and ground it to a dust in a morter and pestal and then mixed it in with the copper slip. I run a i7-3770 and temps average about 34C and peak out at 50C under moderate load. I use a stock cooler and after a year I am more than happy with the performance with no noticeable degradation over that year.
I am in the process of reviving an old i7-2600K which I will mount a custom diy heatpipe heatsink (salvaged from an old Dell Optlex Workstation) and will be using the same formula and will see if I can overclock the CPU to something like 4.2ghz for gaming purposes.

Copper slip rocks.

Shoog


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Jul 17, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Actually, there is a significant chemical difference. Please review the documents below.
> 
> 
> https://www.itwpf.com.au/devcon/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2016/09/Devcon-Stop-Seize-Copper-180305.pdf
> ...



They sell Permatex anti-seize at the auto parts store here too, but considering the cost of a small tube it will run you the same expense as thermal paste and defeats the purpose. And it's a totally different composition again: https://www.permatex.com/wp-content/uploads/tech_docs/sds/01_USA-English/80078.pdf

Thermal paste uses zinc oxide, so unless calcium oxide somehow does the same job of conducting heat, there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or damn reason.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 17, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> They sell Permatex anti-seize at the auto parts store here too, but considering the cost of a small tube it will run you the same expense as thermal paste and defeats the purpose. And it's a totally different composition again: https://www.permatex.com/wp-content/uploads/tech_docs/sds/01_USA-English/80078.pdf
> 
> Thermal paste uses zinc oxide, so unless calcium oxide somehow does the same job of conducting heat, there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or damn reason.


We can debate the chemistry back and forth. In the end though, it's about results, and there are a few of us who are getting positive results. So did you try reapplying?

I'm doing this out of scientific curiosity, not vested in a result one way or another nor do I have something to prove or disprove. I just want to see how things work out.


----------



## moproblems99 (Jul 17, 2020)

micropage7 said:


> looks nice but i feel you need to test it under high temp or high pressure to see how it will react. and i agree you need to see how it reacts to aluminum or copper too



This stuff is used on cylinder heads.  Pressure, check.  Temps, check.  Plus, heads are aluminum a lot.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Jul 17, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> We can debate the chemistry back and forth. In the end though, it's about results, and there are a few of us who are getting positive results. So did you try reapplying?
> 
> I'm doing this out of scientific curiosity, not vested in a result one way or another nor do I have something to prove or disprove. I just want to see how things work out.



So the GD900 manages to do a maximum of 78C during a full IntelBurnTest run and passed no problems. I switched out for the anti-seize where I only applied a thin layer on the IHS only, across the whole surface. It did slightly better this time but it failed after the second burn cycle when it hit 92C. Again, hardly functioning as a thermal paste.

I'm happy to experiment, so I tried something else as well: Toothpaste.

I switched out for some Colgate Advanced Whitening with the micro cleaning crystals to see how it compares against the GD900 and the anti-seize. The toothpaste thermal paste stabilised at a maximum of 89C and passed ten cycles of the IntelBurnTest run. Even toothpaste is performing better than the anti-seize AND as a bonus it's easier to clean up afterwards!

EDIT: Not that I even remotely would recommend toothpaste as thermal paste. It's consistency won't even last for one hour of use.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 17, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> EDIT: Not that I even remotely would recommend toothpaste as thermal paste. It's consistency won't even last for one hour of use.


It also reacts with the metal, think it was exposed copper on the heat sink base.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Jul 17, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> It also reacts with the metal, think it was exposed copper on the heat sink base.



It just dries up when it's warm, so it loses contact very quickly. As for reactivity, no idea. I didn't notice any reaction and my heatsink has copper heatpipes.
I'd also like to try standard grease too. I have some moly grease that I might give a try to see how it compares with anti-seize.

Okay, so the moly grease is at 50C when it's in the bios. Forget it. At least that gives an idea of how effective regular grease is when it comes to thermal conductivity.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 17, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> As for reactivity, no idea. I didn't notice any reaction and my heatsink has copper heatpipes.


I’ve used toothpaste as a substitute when I ran out of compound. There was some sorta of reaction because it was difficult to clean off.


----------



## CubanB (Jul 17, 2020)

Very interesting thread guys.  This may be slightly off topic but I'll give it a go since you guys seem to know your stuff.  Is there anything to worry about in terms of using a thermal paste like Kryonaut or MX-4 with a copper shim.  In other words.. die - > thermal paste -> raw copper shim -> thermal paste - > aluminum (or alloy) heatsink?  No issues with corrosion in the long term?  I'm thinking probably not but thought I would ask anyway, since you guys seem to know about this kind of thing.  The only corrosion I know if for sure is using liquid metal, but what about thermal paste with raw copper?

I'd never heard of this copper grease stuff but I'm curious to look into it in the future.  I don't think I'd want to replace my thermal paste on my CPU but it could be useful for other applications.  The long term results (as this thread evolves) will be interesting.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 17, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> So the GD900 manages to do a maximum of 78C during a full IntelBurnTest run and passed no problems. I switched out for the anti-seize where I only applied a thin layer on the IHS only, across the whole surface. It did slightly better this time but it failed after the second burn cycle when it hit 92C. Again, hardly functioning as a thermal paste.


Ok, so the chemistries being different must be having an effect. KoprKote and my stuff seem to be working well.


CubanB said:


> Very interesting thread guys. This may be slightly off topic but I'll give it a go since you guys seem to know your stuff. Is there anything to worry about in terms of using a thermal paste like Kryonaut or MX-4 with a copper shim. In other words.. die - > thermal paste -> raw copper shim -> thermal paste - > aluminum (or alloy) heatsink? No issues with corrosion in the long term? I'm thinking probably not but thought I would ask anyway, since you guys seem to know about this kind of thing. The only corrosion I know if for sure is using liquid metal, *but what about thermal paste with raw copper?*
> 
> I'd never heard of this copper grease stuff but I'm curious to look into it in the future. I don't think I'd want to replace my thermal paste on my CPU but it could be useful for other applications. The long term results (as this thread evolves) will be interesting.


You'll be fine, no worries.


----------



## funboy6942 (Jul 17, 2020)

I built a old rig few days ago, its running a core 2 quad, and I put a ultra thin layer of the stuff on it, and I do believe that people trying it with bad results have to know it need a ultra think layer, almost see through. You dont want any of it squeezing out from between the heatsink and the cpu getting on anything because as I have and other have mentioned, it does conduct electricity, just as liquid metal do, so apply it as if your applying that goop that will destroy your heatsink over time. But anyway, it was a choice of that or some really cheap crap I had laying around, the white stuff, with the consistency of toothpaste. With this cpu, my temps actually lowered 2 degrees, using the stock cooler. As far as a long term on my main rig goes, since its been many months. Temps have not changed, still the same, under load or not.

I just cannot stress that if you use it, it has to be see through thin, no more, no less, for thats what has worker perfect for me. And though it is a degree or two hotter then my Arctic tim I had some of, I myself dont see the need to buy anything else anymore to gain that back, for its running way cool as it is, no where even close to its thermal limits. But this is me, and Im happy, if your not, well thats you, Im not going to force you into changing your mind.

OH and as far as clean up, using a thin layer, all I use to clean it up with is 2 alcohol pads, takes but a few seconds, making sure to wipe to the center of the cpu, not the outer edges. If your having trouble removing it, then you applied way too much


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Jul 18, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ok, so the chemistries being different must be having an effect. KoprKote and my stuff seem to be working well.
> 
> You'll be fine, no worries.



Well since the anti-seize doesn't need to function as a grease anymore when it's used as thermal paste, I'd imagine you could modify it by mixing in extra graphite or copper dust to get the thermal conductivity up. But you'd want to start with a product that's already pretty decent at conducting heat.


----------



## funboy6942 (Jul 18, 2020)

OOOOO I know what Im trying next, some graphite 
Gonna have to start shaving some #2 pencils.

There is already a butt ton of copper in the stuff I bought.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 18, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Well since the anti-seize doesn't need to function as a grease anymore when it's used as thermal paste, I'd imagine you could modify it by mixing in extra graphite or copper dust to get the thermal conductivity up. But you'd want to start with a product that's already pretty decent at conducting heat.


That would be taking the experiment to a whole new level. I'm not interested in going that far. Just interested if this off-the-shelf product intended for one purpose, can function as another. That's it. So far, for me, it is. Doing a respectable job at it as well.


----------



## Shoog (Jul 18, 2020)

Just performed a handbrake test on my CPU and got some surprising results. My i7-3770 is running all cores at between 85-100% and the speed is stable at 3.4ghz - but all cores are sitting up at 100-105C. Everything is stable and this is far from a normal use case for me, but it seems to suggest that the stock cooler and copper slip/graphite paste is simply not up to this workload. Might be time for a cooler upgrade.

Shoog


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 18, 2020)

Shoog said:


> Might be time for a cooler upgrade.


I'd say.. Cooler Master Hyper 212 for the win. Excellent cooling, inexpensive. Win.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Jul 19, 2020)

I gave this experiment one more attempt to see if I could get any different results.

I found out that one of my favourite oil brands Penrite has a product called Copper Eze. This stuff looks much more like the Kopr-Kote where it's a bronze paste in appearance, rather than the Devon Stop-Seize I used that's almost totally black with some metallic fleck instead.

Unfortunately Copper Eze is a failure too, long story short. It's actually the most terrible thermal paste substitute I've tried to date. It idles at 50C and hits 100C the instant you put a load on it. A normal idle is in the low 30's. I was more hopeful with this one because it apparently uses zinc oxide (found in thermal paste), proving once again that chemistry makes absolutely no bloody sense whatsoever.

I also tried both thick and thinner-than-a-bee's-dick applications but it doesn't really make a difference. The thinner application might be a few degrees cooler but I can't verify when the CPU can't handle a 100% load for more than a few seconds.



lexluthermiester said:


> I'd say.. Cooler Master Hyper 212 for the win. Excellent cooling, inexpensive. Win.



Cooler Master 212 is okay but it has a really weak clip-on mounting system that doesn't support the tower cooler properly. I was kind of disappointed when I got mine. Unless it's mounted in a system where the motherboard is laying flat it would be good, although that's pretty uncommon.


----------



## Caring1 (Jul 19, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> I gave this experiment one more attempt to see if I could get any different results.
> 
> I found out that one of my favourite oil brands Penrite has a product called Copper Eze. This stuff looks much more like the Kopr-Kote where it's a bronze paste in appearance, rather than the Devon Stop-Seize I used that's almost totally black with some metallic fleck instead.
> 
> Unfortunately Copper Eze is a failure too, long story short. It's actually the most terrible thermal paste substitute I've tried to date. It idles at 50C and hits 100C the instant you put a load on it. A normal idle is in the low 30's. I was more hopeful with this one because it apparently uses zinc oxide (found in thermal paste), proving once again that chemistry makes absolutely no bloody sense whatsoever.


Try a Spheerol HTB grease, it's dropping point is usually rated around 180C for a quality brand and is non conductive and non corrosive.


----------



## funboy6942 (Jul 19, 2020)

Here are my temps, with my profile set to extreme, with this first at idle with programs and my browser with a bunch of tabs open running:






This is with FurMark running, in 720P for over 5 Min, and as you can see, the temps are perfect, using my HSF set up, picture below:


----------



## necros (Jul 21, 2020)

try corrosion block grease, its designed by learjet no copper or anything like that in it. but doesnt melt its also dialectric, been using it for the last 3 years in my main machine. which is a amd fx 9790, i am one of those people who if curious about anything in life will spend probably 50 hours at least researching everything. thermal grease is still pretty much a standard grease but because says thermal they charge you more. so many things are just standard cheap stuff but as soon as you say it is for one thing only up goes the price.


----------



## funboy6942 (Jul 21, 2020)

yup
Ive tried Dielectric grease in the past, when thats all I had on hand, but stuff I used had a very low melting point, and would turn to soup between the hs and cpu. This stuff stays just fine, no signs of drying up, no liquid after a while, no nutting, just keeps my cpu cool, and Im happy with that.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 21, 2020)

necros said:


> try corrosion block grease, its designed by learjet no copper or anything like that in it. but doesnt melt its also dialectric, been using it for the last 3 years in my main machine. which is a amd fx 9790, i am one of those people who if curious about anything in life will spend probably 50 hours at least researching everything. thermal grease is still pretty much a standard grease but because says thermal they charge you more. so many things are just standard cheap stuff but as soon as you say it is for one thing only up goes the price.


Got a brand or product name & number?


----------



## necros (Jul 21, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Got a brand or product name & number?


LearChem they make it for marine and invented it for their planes its the company learjet.  here is the website been using it for years on a cpu thats over 200w   http://www.acf-50.co.uk/corrosion_block_grease.htm


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 21, 2020)

necros said:


> http://www.acf-50.co.uk/corrosion_block_grease.htm


That site makes some claims I would love to test. See the following;


			http://www.acf-50.co.uk/other.htm
		


Can't find any thermal property declarations however.


----------



## kiriakost (Jul 21, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> That site makes some claims I would love to test. See the following;
> 
> 
> http://www.acf-50.co.uk/other.htm
> ...



They seem swimming at the sea of basic industrial applications and they have poor humor regarding advertisement of them self's.  

*Electrical Uses*
Corrosion Block has the ability to remove moisture, combined with its  excellent penetrating and strong dielectric properties, have brought  a number of electronics 'back from the dead' with just one application.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 21, 2020)

kiriakost said:


> They seem swimming at the sea of basic industrial applications and they have poor humor regarding advertisement of them self's.



Not sure what you are trying to say.  You are aware they actually make jet airplanes, right?  Maybe not reading you correctly, but you sound critical of their engineering expertise.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Jul 22, 2020)

necros said:


> thermal grease is still pretty much a standard grease but because says thermal they charge you more. so many things are just standard cheap stuff but as soon as you say it is for one thing only up goes the price.



I don't subscribe to such a cynical way of thinking.
Certainly you get products that overlap in their applications to an extent, but from my engineering experience there is no single "universal" product that can work effectively in different applications that have different sets of performance requirements.
Even the various requirements for greasing lubrication has led to the existence of many different grease products using totally unrelated chemistries. In my shed I've got high temp wheel bearing grease, molybdenum disulphide grease, graphite grease, heavy duty tack grease, marine grease, silicone grease, rubber grease and lanolin wool grease.
There's no such thing as a standard grease, and just because they're all called "grease" doesn't mean they're all the same shit.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 22, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Cooler Master 212 is okay but it has a really weak clip-on mounting system that doesn't support the tower cooler properly. I was kind of disappointed when I got mine. Unless it's mounted in a system where the motherboard is laying flat it would be good, although that's pretty uncommon.


The newer Hyper 212 mounting hardware is more refined/easier to get on, and it doesn’t wiggle around. It’s a firm hold on the heatspreader.

I’m using this one.








						Cooler Master Hyper 212 RGB Black Edition CPU Air Cooler
					

The legendary Hyper air cooler is back and better than before. The Hyper 212 RGB Black Edition offers better installation and great performance, easily one of the best air cooling solutions. The aluminum top cover and nickel plated jet black fins, give the Hyper 212 RGB Black Edition a premium...




					www.coolermaster.com


----------



## kiriakost (Jul 23, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> I don't subscribe to such a cynical way of thinking.
> Certainly you get products that overlap in their applications to an extent, but from my engineering experience there is no single "universal" product that can work effectively in different applications that have different sets of performance requirements.
> Even the various requirements for greasing lubrication has led to the existence of many different grease products using totally unrelated chemistries. In my shed I've got high temp wheel bearing grease, molybdenum disulphide grease, graphite grease, heavy duty tack grease, marine grease, silicone grease, rubber grease and lanolin wool grease.
> There's no such thing as a standard grease, and just because they're all called "grease" doesn't mean they're all the same shit.



I totally agree with you,  but there is allot brain-cells poisoning happening  due YouTube Fake gurus and the young people they do become easy victims by choice.
How many they know that in automotive industry (their own motorcycle or car or electric bicycle )  they are potted electronics in to a box which has thermal grease too,  this never be replaced ? This made to last for ever = 30 years or more.

Computing started with CPU with cooling system mounting with metal clips,   next generation was using plastic clips, next generation using BIG plastic Pins.
And some one with a single VGA this having metal screws instead of clips he become high opinionated by thinking that there is only one mechanical way keeping a cooling system in place.

Some others think that thermal paste this must staying fluid for ever,  there is no such thing,  thermal paste this is solid material and portion of oil this added as assistance when this is applied.
Any way, the less experienced always will have narrow vision and when they will become mature they will laugh by their own  past made comments.

Personally I was never though that TPU project - website,  this will last that long over time due the nature of internet.
If some one uses the search  he will find past contribution of knowledge produced by valuable experiences.
But such way of investigation this is time consuming and it can not help any one seeking for fast answers.


----------



## Sisyfos (Sep 5, 2020)

This was an interesting thread to read. I came by it, because I was doing some maintenance on my living room PC and noticed that I need to remove the heatsink to clean it properly and I had no thermal compound at home (that I could find). I have copper paste that I have bought for my car some years back and I searched online if that could be of use. Anyhow, brief experience so far is that temps dropped by 20 degrees Celsius (it was DIRTY and the old compound was almost non-existent when I took out the heatsink). Anyhow, so far so good. I will look into it to see if the performance degrades and I will hopefully at that point have some thermal compound available at hand then.


----------



## Icon Charlie (Sep 5, 2020)

Sisyfos said:


> This was an interesting thread to read. I came by it, because I was doing some maintenance on my living room PC and noticed that I need to remove the heatsink to clean it properly and I had no thermal compound at home (that I could find). I have copper paste that I have bought for my car some years back and I searched online if that could be of use. Anyhow, brief experience so far is that temps dropped by 20 degrees Celsius (it was DIRTY and the old compound was almost non-existent when I took out the heatsink). Anyhow, so far so good. I will look into it to see if the performance degrades and I will hopefully at that point have some thermal compound available at hand then.


Thank you for your input... Let us know how this goes.


----------



## Shoog (Sep 5, 2020)

I upgraded my heatsink because I was seeing unacceptable temps with my stock Intel cooler and running handbrake. My combination copper slip and ground graphite past was still quite fluid after about a year of use when I took it off. I replaced it with stock silver grease but have little doubt that my copper slip graphite mix would have remained servicable for many years if I had have left it in place.

However the only empirical test of copper slip vs silver paste I came across showed that copper slip was inferior overall so i would tend to reserve it for emergency short to medium term use.

Shoog


----------



## Sisyfos (Sep 9, 2020)

Well its been a few days only so far, but for this low powered CPU it is looking really promising. So far this is how the temps have been normally (current/min/max):


----------



## funboy6942 (Sep 9, 2020)

Attachment doesnt work on my end, getting a opps page


----------



## Sisyfos (Sep 9, 2020)

funboy6942 said:


> Attachment doesnt work on my end, getting a opps page


Ah, maybe it bugged as I changed the screenshot in edit. Current: 29,5 celsius, min 17,5 and max 41,5 celsius and processor is AMD A8-3870 running at 3 Ghz (living room pc).


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 12, 2020)

Sisyfos said:


> Well its been a few days only so far, but for this low powered CPU it is looking really promising. So far this is how the temps have been normally (current/min/max):
> View attachment 168179


Not sure what software you are using, but it looks like it has a "trial" period. Below are two completely free utilities that will provide great functionality without any hassles.





						Open Hardware Monitor - Core temp, fan speed and voltages in a free software gadget
					






					openhardwaremonitor.org
				











						Free Download HWiNFO Sofware | Installer & Portable for Windows, DOS
					

Start to analyze your hardware right now! HWiNFO has available as an Installer and Portable version for Windows (32/64-bit) and Portable version for DOS.




					www.hwinfo.com


----------



## delshay (Oct 12, 2020)

Sisyfos said:


> Well its been a few days only so far, but for this low powered CPU it is looking really promising. So far this is how the temps have been normally (current/min/max):
> View attachment 168179



If your minimum temperature is 17.5c, then your room temperature must be lower than this. Isn't that a little cold for the human body.


----------



## Frick (Oct 12, 2020)

delshay said:


> If your minimum temperature is 17.5c, then your room temperature must be lower than this. Isn't that a little cold for the human body.



Colder outside weather and an open window close to the computer. I've met people who installed wooden panels in the windows to funnel outside air directly into the computer case (-10 - -30C).


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 13, 2020)

Anwar.Shiekh said:


> Is there an issue with galvanic corrosion when using electrically conductive thermal grease, be it liquid metal or copper.


Not that I'm aware of or have seen.


----------



## DeathtoGnomes (Oct 13, 2020)

Anwar.Shiekh said:


> Is there an issue with galvanic corrosion when using electrically conductive thermal grease, be it liquid metal or copper.


there is always some form of dissimilar metal corrosion, some types are more noticeable than others, which is why you need "preservatives" ( for lack of a better word ) mixed in with normal conductive pastes.


----------



## dorsetknob (Oct 13, 2020)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> which is why you need "preservatives" ( for lack of a better word ) mixed in with normal conductive pastes.


 Galvanic Neutralizers.......


----------



## funboy6942 (Oct 13, 2020)

delshay said:


> If your minimum temperature is 17.5c, then your room temperature must be lower than this. Isn't that a little cold for the human body.



A fan, or wind blowing on you when its cold, makes you colder, especially if you are made of metal  



Anwar.Shiekh said:


> Probably true given the copper inserts to aluminum heatsinks.



Ive been/was a mechanic for many years, and used this stuff on many types of metal, under a ton of heat, stress, and pressure, and have yet to ever seen it eat any of the metal its been applied to, either by me, or from the factory, or from someone else that did the job before I got a hold of it. SO far, I have used this stuff on everything I and my son own, and on computers and laptops I have fixed so far, with great results. I am looking forward to my long term test, for I really think that since this stuff was made to withstand much greater temps then I could ever put it through, that it will last much longer then reg paste I used to use. I even did my old laptop my daughter is using for school since she isnt going, and all her work has to be done on line, so Im really really looking forward to the long term test on it, for a laptops eats paste for breakfast, and Im usually redoing it once a year, and even then its pretty much all dried up. So for me, Im not really worried about it eating my cpu or heatsink metal at all, nor shorting anything out, for I apply it like liquid metal, and use the thinnest of layer when applied, even thinner then the paste I used to use in fact, and seems to work better with a ultra thin layer, then a thicker one I have found out in my testing and trial and error applications and tests.


----------



## Sisyfos (Oct 14, 2020)

Ah, a few comments since my last update. The temps are normally around 20 Celsius here in the room. I do not think that the CPU thermometers are exactly accurate, they probably try to get just to the right ballpark figure and care most likely more about the higher temps than the low end. The copper paste is going strong with no showing of any performance degradation. Frankly to me it seems that this particular paste can just stay there for years before I bother with it again. I did not go out of my way to purchase it to be used as a thermal paste, but it was there available on my shelf when I needed something. Its performance seems equal or better than other "real" thermal paste I have used before, but it has the same drawbacks as using liquid metal because it is conductive so that is not really much of a bonus.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 14, 2020)

Sisyfos said:


> The copper paste is going strong with no showing of any performance degradation.


I'm having the same experience.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 20, 2021)

Update. I have changed the TIM on my daily use T3500 with it's Xeon W3680 back to MX-4. Was trying to OC the W3680 and it kept spiking in temps on 3 of the 6 cores(my definition of spiking is low to mid 70's C, *which to me* is unacceptable). When I took the HS off, there was no resistance. It still looked good. Seems I didn't apply it is evenly as I had thought as the spread was not uniform. Still, the stuff did the job as intended and if I were not the temperature freak that I am and were not OCing it likely would have continued to do the job just fine.

Sorry for not taking pictures as I was not thinking of this thread when I was trying to stabilize the OC.

So, to offer some thoughts on this nearly year long experiment, Copper based screw thread anti-seize products seem to work well as a TIM, even if not specifically designed for it. Granted not all anti-seize compounds are created equal and formulation matters.


----------



## DeathtoGnomes (Jan 21, 2021)

any thoughts on why it didnt spread evenly? not enough clamp pressure?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 21, 2021)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> any thoughts on why it didnt spread evenly? not enough clamp pressure?


It's possible I didn't spread it as well as I could have. When I first tried the compound it was just a novelty experiment. When it actually worked I decided to leave it to see how long it would last.


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## funboy6942 (Jan 21, 2021)

Still no problems here with my brand, or application. No funky stuff going on, and I have applied it to everything so far that needs thermal paste. As far as application, a small dab will do you. Too thin will cause spikes, and too thick and it doesn't transfer the heat as good. I have found that putting a small dap on my finger, and poking it all over the chip(s), just enough to coat it to where you cannot see it work great. No chance of it oozing out from between the heatsink and chip, so no chance of any of it shorting something out, and I have yet to see any of it/them turn into a watery mess after being used for almost a year, for my cpu is still running strong. And YES, I also love this stuff for if I have to remove the sink, and it is applied like I mention, it doesn't rip the cpu out of the socket when taking it off like all the other tim I have used in the past, so no chance of bending/ breaking pins, when having to take me cpu off the board for what ever reason. Than alone makes it worth all its weight in copper not breaking or bending that, that I am happy to be a degree or two higher in temps vs the MX-4 (MYSELF) I had been using in the past.

If not ocing like a mofo on this stuff, leaving stock, making sure to do a EVEN thin spread of the stuff, and careful as you applied it, a bottle of this stuff will be the last tim you will ever purchase


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## lexluthermiester (Jan 21, 2021)

funboy6942 said:


> If not ocing like a mofo on this stuff, leaving stock, making sure to do a EVEN thin spread of the stuff, and careful as you applied it, a bottle of this stuff will be the last tim you will ever purchase


I'll go along with that. The thing is, I wasn't having any stability issues and most would consider the temps I was getting to be acceptable. The stuff was working very well!


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## funboy6942 (Jan 21, 2021)

I'm happy if it gets no where near throttling and running great with no stutters I can see, and many temps below its maximum threshold, and I'm happy as a clam. HOWEVER, for my case, many fans, and like to keep my house at 69, it is doing great for what I need it to do. But I really cannot stress how important, with my stuff, to make sure its not too thin or thick of a layer, and DO not do the pea in the middle, yeah use your finger and move it around to get a thin even cover. I am not convinced that the pea method is the best, for I don't like second guessing myself, and doing it that way will make me do that big time and my ocd will be triggered, if its not running like I like thinking in the back of my head did I apply enough to spread out over the whole chip causing XXX to happen. I been and always will spread it myself knowing 100% that's not the problem at all with what is going on, so look at something else causing the problem. This stuff is no exception, and look what Lex did


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## dafunklull (May 21, 2021)

for 12 months on my old amd phenom 1045t system as thermal compound i have been using and have absolutely amazing results with. Good ole Dielectric terminal grease. the stuff thats clear comes with various automotive wiring kits. is dielectric clear and retains its Vaseline consistency. the environment is north american so my ambient temperatures are never a problem and the cpu rarely ever peaks above 50c even under 100%  cinibench abuse. all under a now ancient but Tried and True design "Antec Ac64 Freezer pro tower heatsink. 90mm fan. in a equally old antec two hundered gamer with the tie fighter grill. all air cooled.  i have yet to see "dielectric terminal grease dry up or liquefy under the modest temperatures 12 months We are not over clocking the cpu above its 2.7-3.2ghz 3 core turbo boost. iv seen arctic silver dry up and solidify the heat sink to the cpu more times then iv seen this dielectric..as iv never seen it solidify yet. we are breaching 12 months now as this is my daily driver system still. 

"clear dielectric terminal grease gets a Don't worry about it rating from me.  it'll be fine. just don't go trying to burn it off with reckless overclocking"

as a side note  in the Absolute worse case scenario i noticed that "Plasticine" was once tested for its thermal conductive property's. while not good for the long run it will play nicely as a temporary solution being reapplied monthly, as to ensure all of its oils do not leach out as dry out. a monthly check up and replacement is easy and not messy as each time it was still malleable and just balled up and applied a fresh ball "avoid colored Plasticine and black black seems to be more oily then "white" and grey seemed to best. colored ones you may get some stain on the cpu hs.


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## Icon Charlie (May 22, 2021)

dafunklull said:


> for 12 months on my old amd phenom 1045t system as thermal compound i have been using and have absolutely amazing results with. Good ole Dielectric terminal grease. the stuff thats clear comes with various automotive wiring kits. is dielectric clear and retains its Vaseline consistency. the environment is north american so my ambient temperatures are never a problem and the cpu rarely ever peaks above 50c even under 100%  cinibench abuse. all under a now ancient but Tried and True design "Antec Ac64 Freezer pro tower heatsink. 90mm fan. in a equally old antec two hundered gamer with the tie fighter grill. all air cooled.  i have yet to see "dielectric terminal grease dry up or liquefy under the modest temperatures 12 months We are not over clocking the cpu above its 2.7-3.2ghz 3 core turbo boost. iv seen arctic silver dry up and solidify the heat sink to the cpu more times then iv seen this dielectric..as iv never seen it solidify yet. we are breaching 12 months now as this is my daily driver system still.
> 
> "clear dielectric terminal grease gets a Don't worry about it rating from me.  it'll be fine. just don't go trying to burn it off with reckless overclocking"
> 
> as a side note  in the Absolute worse case scenario i noticed that "Plasticine" was once tested for its thermal conductive property's. while not good for the long run it will play nicely as a temporary solution being reapplied monthly, as to ensure all of its oils do not leach out as dry out. a monthly check up and replacement is easy and not messy as each time it was still malleable and just balled up and applied a fresh ball "avoid colored Plasticine and black black seems to be more oily then "white" and grey seemed to best. colored ones you may get some stain on the cpu hs.


Again thank you for posting this information. I definitely like stuff like this.


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## crispysilicon (Jun 6, 2021)

funboy6942 said:


> Ive been/was a mechanic for many years, and used this stuff on many types of metal, under a ton of heat, stress, and pressure, and have yet to ever seen it eat any of the metal its been applied to, either by me, or from the factory, or from someone else that did the job before I got a hold of it.



So I've used nickel and copper anti-seize many times over the years when not going for maximum effort. Stuff works, and has amazing longevity, but not as well as high end compounds for thermal performance. Funny you mention working as a mechanic, that's where I got the idea in the first place.

See, old Fords have problems with the igntion control modules overheating. Problem is always no application, improper application or dried out application of, the thermal contact grease that goes on the back of the module. Nobody _ever_ replaces the stuff in the automotive world and the stuff included has a pretty short lifespan, like cheap oem laptop compound.

Solution, throw away the packet of white/clear garbage grease and apply anti seize instead. Lifetime application, never had one fail that had it applied.

Go impress your friends with old Fords ;-) https://www.autosafety.org/ford-tfi-module-national-class-settlement/


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## Grog6 (Jun 9, 2021)

Avoid the nickel-based compounds; nickel has really bad thermal conductivity. It's great on a heatsink as plating, but you want copper for thermal transfer, or silver, if you have deep pockets.


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## Shrek (Jun 9, 2021)

Copper anti seize grease may be rated to very high temperature, but I think it dries out long before; not a problem for anti-seize, but might be in other applications.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 9, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> but I think it dries out long before


I did not notice any dry-out when I was running it on my T3500. But then again the heat generated in a PC is nowhere near the heat generated in an automotive engine, so there may not have been enough time and/or conditions for dry-out to occur.


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## bobbybluz (Jun 9, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I did not notice any dry-out when I was running it on my T3500. But then again the heat generated in a PC is nowhere near the heat generated in an automotive engine, so there may not have been enough time and/or conditions for dry-out to occur.


Engine component heat (except for exhaust manifolds) is nothing compared to brake components subjected to heavy use/abuse. I used to use Sil-Glyde on many things, still have some in my big toolbox. Brake Grease vs Anti Seize – Which Is Best For Your Brakes? – Grease Expert


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 9, 2021)

bobbybluz said:


> Engine component heat (except for exhaust manifolds) is nothing compared to brake components subjected to heavy use/abuse. I used to use Sil-Glyde on many things, still have some in my big toolbox. Brake Grease vs Anti Seize – Which Is Best For Your Brakes? – Grease Expert


My point was that none of those temps are going to take place in a PC, so dry-out is unlikely.


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## Shrek (Jun 9, 2021)

And a good point it is, but then one is left wondering why most thermal greases are based on silicone oil


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 9, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> then one is left wondering why most thermal greases are based on silicone oil


Likely because it is an oil that does not easily evaporate? It's only a guess but would make sense..


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## Shrek (Jun 9, 2021)

I assume copper based anti-seize grease uses carbon based oils.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 9, 2021)

Your guess is as good as mine. I have not researched that area of chemistry. Not really my field.


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## Shrek (Jun 9, 2021)

Even if it does dry out, I don't actually see a problem.


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## Sachingare (Oct 1, 2021)

No thermal compound or grease, etc "dries out" - it can polymerize and harden, yeah ok, but there's absolutely no way in hell any of it will ever evaporate.in a significant amount.

Silicone oil is used because it's theoretically more resistant to aging.

I'd advise you to look for actual facts and numbers to support your discussions.
This copper anti seize  for example has a conductivity of 4.68 W/m-K
https://www.aremco.com/news-item/heat-away-640-thermally-conductive-copper-grease-now-available/

Good thermal paste can go up to 8, which is much higher, but the average thermal compound will be in roughly the same range.

Considering the great video Tech Ingredients did about thermal epoxy, I'd guess the particle size & shape and correct mix of several heat conducting powders compounds are important for fine tuning.









Here's a interesting research paper: https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1944/13/8/1893/htm

PS I'm amazed that none of you have even considered doing basic research like reading the Wikipedia article about thermal grease, or stuff like that


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## R-T-B (Oct 1, 2021)

Sachingare said:


> PS I'm amazed that none of you have even considered doing basic research like reading the Wikipedia article about thermal grease, or stuff like that


Sorry to say...  but I'm not... lol.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 2, 2021)

Sachingare said:


> No thermal compound or grease, etc "dries out" - it can polymerize and harden, yeah ok, but there's absolutely no way in hell any of it will ever evaporate.in a significant amount.
> 
> Silicone oil is used because it's theoretically more resistant to aging.
> 
> ...


W/e you say bill, and you are new here, show respect or get lost.


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## lexluthermiester (Oct 2, 2021)

Sachingare said:


> No thermal compound or grease, etc "dries out" - it can polymerize and harden


That would be VERY incorrect. Many TIMs use an oil suspension fluid as a base which can and often does evaporate over time, thus the term "dry out".


Sachingare said:


> Silicone oil is used because it's theoretically more resistant to aging.


Not every company uses silicone oil as a suspension fluid.


Sachingare said:


> I'd advise you to look for actual facts and numbers to support your discussions.
> This copper anti seize for example has a conductivity of 4.68 W/m-K
> https://www.aremco.com/news-item/heat-away-640-thermally-conductive-copper-grease-now-available/


Given that actual testing shows good performance, what would your point be?


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