# New Build After 8 Years.



## Aquinus (Feb 17, 2020)

Howdy folks. After about 8 lovely years with Sandy Bridge E and after killing off all of my debts, I'm ready to start thinking about building a new machine in the next 2 or 3 months. To make a long story short, I originally had a 3820 when I first built my current machine, then several years later replaced it with a used 3930k which bought me a few years of breathing room. Now I'm hitting bottlenecks in both single and multi-threaded applications, some are games, some are not. Most of the cases where I need more threads is when I'm working with PostgreSQL, crunching large datasets, doing loads tests for things like scalability of the software I'm writing, or an occasionally simulation. So needless to say, I'm in need of a platform upgrade. I'm relatively satisfied with the performance I get out of my Vega 64 (when I'm not CPU or thermally constrained,) so I don't want to replace it yet. The old machine will likely find its way into a quiet part of the house and will likely run headless as a VM Host and as a NAS, so finding a replacement for larger scale storage isn't as big of a deal with this build. As a result, I probably won't run RAID with this machine. I will, however, continue to use Linux so there is no need for a Windows license.

I've already put together a preliminary list of hardware I think would be good for what I'm looking at doing.

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Aquinus/saved/#view=MTZJf7

As you might notice, I left out cooling solutions. I'm considering getting a full coverage block for the Vega 64 and putting both the CPU and GPU under water on a single loop. I'm using a Corsair H100i for the 3930k and it works really well, but the Vega 64 really needs better cooling to run at its maximum potential and I don't like the sound of a squirrel cage fan running like a bat out of hell. I'm not exactly sure what I'd get for the liquid loop, but I'd probably get a single 360-rad and mount it on the top of the case. I still need to shop around for things like the rad, reservoir, piping, fittings, blocks, etc.

My self-imposed budget is currently $2,000 USD, however I have flexibility to bend this limit if I need to.

So given what I've said, the parts I've picked out, and the intent to liquid cool this machine, what are your suggestions? Do the parts look good? Would you suggest any changes? Anything I might want to consider since this is my first time doing a custom loop? What do you think?

*Edit*: I might bring the Samsung 960 Pro over from my current machine.


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## Vayra86 (Feb 17, 2020)

I cannot go deep on the details of a Ryzen high performance setup, but in terms of core count and overall performance you are in the right place here. Not too much, and certainly not too little.

Looks like another 6~8-year rig


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## Aquinus (Feb 17, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> Looks like another 6~8-year rig


That's the goal. I can't do these things all the time anymore. I'm not as young as I used to be.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 17, 2020)

TR40 i guess you would need another Grand to get something


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## Vayra86 (Feb 17, 2020)

Aquinus said:


> That's the goal. I can't do these things all the time anymore. I'm not as young as I used to be.



That, and there is that moment of realization that no matter how often you upgrade, it won't make the top end faster. Might as well hit high right away and stick with it.


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## Aquinus (Feb 17, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> TR40 i guess you would need another Grand to get something


I can't justify going with Threadripper. Even if I had the budget for it, it would probably largely go underutilized. More than 32 threads is probably going to have limited benefit for what I use my machine for. I did consider it,  but it's just not a good use of my money.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 17, 2020)

Aquinus said:


> I can't justify going with Threadripper, even if I had the budget for it, it would probably largely go underutilized. More than 32 threads is probably going to have limited benefit for what I use my machine for. I did consider it,  but it's just not a good use of my money.



I wasnt talking about 3990


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## Aquinus (Feb 17, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> I wasnt talking about 3990


The 3960X is almost $1,500 USD. Between the motherboard and CPU alone I'd be almost at $2,000 USD. It's also still probably more threads than what I need.


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## Vayra86 (Feb 17, 2020)

That was the whole point of my first post. TR is going to increase the cost in many ways, especially if you're going for WC. Different block etc.

The support and general featureset of MSDT is decent enough. If you don't use all those threads, I think 12/24 is an absolutely fantastic place to be.

I think the most appealing performance metric for TR in this case might be quad channel.. That is what takes those Intel-E rigs further than MSDT as well. Its not just the core count.


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## dgianstefani (Feb 17, 2020)

Swap the Asus Pro for the Meg x570 Ace. It's a better board for the same price range.
The RAM is good value but could have tighter timings, look for 16-16-16-34 or lower for 3600mhz.
Ditch the Prime Ultra titanium and Get the TX850, it's the newer revision of that series.

I would also go for the 3950x, it's a better binned version of the 3900, not just 2 extra cores. Think 2x 3800x rather than 2x3700x.


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## TheLostSwede (Feb 17, 2020)

If it's on 2-3 months, why not wait for Ryzen 4000? Sure, you'd have to wait 5-6 months, but if the rumours are anything to go by, the next gen Ryzen chips should bring with them as much performance as the 3000 series had over the 2000 series. Just a thought.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 17, 2020)

Aquinus said:


> The 3960X is almost $1,500 USD. Between the motherboard and CPU alone I'd be almost at $2,000 USD. It's also still probably more threads than what I need.



Yeah and the 3950 is 750 so that might put you over budget too.


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## Aquinus (Feb 17, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> It's a better board for the same price range.


Could you elaborate on that? I generally like MSI as a company, I have nothing against them. I've had pretty good luck with their GPUs, but I've been less than impressed with their boards in the past. I can see that it has an extra M.2 slot, but beyond that, what's better about it? I actually like how the ASUS board looks. It's a little more professional and a little less flashy, and I like that.


TheLostSwede said:


> If it's on 2-3 months, why not wait for Ryzen 4000? Sure, you'd have to wait 5-6 months, but if the rumours are anything to go by, the next gen Ryzen chips should bring with them as much performance as the 3000 series had over the 2000 series. Just a thought.


That's a valid thing to point out. It might make me wait until more information comes out.


eidairaman1 said:


> Yeah and the 3950 is 750 so that might put you over budget too.


I probably don't need to aim for the top. It's definitely a consideration. I'm just on the fence if the 50% higher cost is worth 33% more cores.


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## dgianstefani (Feb 17, 2020)

You shouldn't buy a board based off looks. They're irrelevant. The MEG Ace has a better VRM amongst other things.


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## TheLostSwede (Feb 17, 2020)

Aquinus said:


> That's a valid thing to point out. It might make me wait until more information comes out.


I haven't heard anything about any kind of announcement/launch schedule, but if we assume AMD is going down a similar route to the 3000 series, we'll see a Computex announcement with Q3 availability. 
Things could obviously change this time around, but I have a feeling we'll see a similar schedule, especially as Intel is late and will launch around the same time.


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## Aquinus (Feb 17, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> The MEG Ace has a better VRM amongst other things.


The VRM setup looks very similar between the two. They're both 6+2 with two IR3555 60A for each phase. I'm not seeing what's better beyond a second 8-pin plug to be honest. It's not an insult, I just don't see it.


dgianstefani said:


> You shouldn't buy a board based off looks.


It's certainly not the only consideration, but aesthetics are a consideration for me. If all things are more or less equal, it can dictate what I choose for a part.


dgianstefani said:


> Ditch the Prime Ultra titanium and Get the TX850, it's the newer revision of that series.


Cost saving measure? Technically it's a downgrade.


TheLostSwede said:


> I haven't heard anything about any kind of announcement/launch schedule, but if we assume AMD is going down a similar route to the 3000 series, we'll see a Computex announcement with Q3 availability.
> Things could obviously change this time around, but I have a feeling we'll see a similar schedule, especially as Intel is late and will launch around the same time.


Sure, but I also have to keep everything in perspective. There will always be something better down the road. Another thing to consider is Linux support. 3000-series has pretty good support at this point. If I wait for the 4000-series chips, I also might have to wait for support in the kernel and for bugs to get worked out depending on how different it is from the 3000-series. I might not find myself with a good experience until Q4 2020 or Q1 2021. This is actually another reason to hold on to the Vega 64 as well. Support for it is really pretty good at this point. I almost never have issues with it. Navi, not so much.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 17, 2020)

Aquinus said:


> The VRM setup looks very similar between the two. They're both 6+2 with two IR3555 60A for each phase. I'm not seeing what's better beyond a second 8-pin plug to be honest. It's not an insult, I just don't see it.
> 
> It's certainly not the only consideration, but aesthetics are a consideration for me. If all things are more or less equal, it can dictate what I choose for a part.
> 
> ...



Yeah that's true and besides you can always upgrade later anyway


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## birdie (Feb 17, 2020)

I'd wait for Ryzen 4000/Zen 3 CPUs if I were you. They will be released in Q3/Q4 2020 which is soon enough.

The X670 chipset should also be a lot more efficient than the X570 one which requires active cooling which I personally hate.


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## oxrufiioxo (Feb 17, 2020)

You could easily fit a 3950x with the majority of the same parts under $2000 

I like your 3900X build a lot but would look into a more modern case unless the one on your list has something specifically you need.






						System Builder
					






					pcpartpicker.com
				




The case in this build has support for a really cool distroplate.

I would also look into the Evolv X even if you don't like RGB it can be turned off with a touch of a button.


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## TheLostSwede (Feb 17, 2020)

Aquinus said:


> Sure, but I also have to keep everything in perspective. There will always be something better down the road. Another thing to consider is Linux support. 3000-series has pretty good support at this point. If I wait for the 4000-series chips, I also might have to wait for support in the kernel and for bugs to get worked out depending on how different it is from the 3000-series. I might not find myself with a good experience until Q4 2020 or Q1 2021. This is actually another reason to hold on to the Vega 64 as well. Support for it is really pretty good at this point. I almost never have issues with it. Navi, not so much.


I wouldn't expect any huge changes, but I guess we simply don't know and won't know for a while. Look at this way, the motherboard would be the same, as only in 2021 will we see a move to DDR5.
Or you get a cheaper 3000 series CPU for now and then upgrade to the 4000 series later in the year...
You might want to peruse this as well. It contains very detailed information about all AM4 boards.


			https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wmsTYK9Z3-jUX5LGRoFnsZYZiW1pfiDZnKCjaXyzd1o/edit#gid=2112472504
		




birdie said:


> The X670 chipset should also be a lot more efficient than the X570 one which requires active cooling which I personally hate.


Are we sure this is happening though? As far as I'm aware, AMD isn't making any more chipsets and ASMedia is apparently having issues with PCIe 4.0.


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## oxrufiioxo (Feb 17, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Are we sure this is happening though? As far as I'm aware, AMD isn't making any more chipsets and ASMedia is apparently having issues with PCIe 4.0.




I think there will be at least refreshed slightly better variants of current boards.... Sorta like Asus TRX40 boards getting a mini refresh for the 3990X


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## TheLostSwede (Feb 17, 2020)

oxrufiioxo said:


> I think there will be at least refreshed slightly better variants of current boards.... Sorta like Asus TRX40 boards getting a mini refresh for the 3990X


Oh, I don't doubt that at all, but I'm not sure we'll see a new chipset, at least not from AMD. I expect the last AM4 chipset(s) will be whatever ASMedia is working on, i.e. B550 and maybe a lesser variation of that. I'm by no means certain on this at this point in time, but as we'll see a big shift next year, I'm not sure AMD is going to go out of their way to bring out a new chipset for the sake of it. Maybe what we'll get is an improved version of X570 that doesn't run quite as hot, but I think that would be it. Even more so, simply due to the fact that beyond USB 4 (4.0, 4.something?) there's really nothing new in terms of connectivity that would be coming out this year that would require a new chipset. Going to throw out a few feelers and see if someone I know has heard anything.


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## Aquinus (Feb 17, 2020)

oxrufiioxo said:


> I like your 3900X build a lot but would look into a more modern case unless the one on your list has something specifically you need.


I wouldn't worry about age. The Antec 1200 I'm using now is the only hold-over from the machine before my X79 build making it at least a decade old. A good case is a good case. I chose this one because it has a good amount of room and looks like a good case to do liquid cooling in. It also matches the colors of all the other components so far. If you have another suggestion, I'm willing to entertain the idea. I'm not married to the Phanteks Enthoo Pro.


oxrufiioxo said:


> The case in this build has support for a really cool distroplate.


That's a nice looking case. It's really wide and it's about the same price. That might be a good switch. Thanks for the suggestion.


oxrufiioxo said:


> I would also look into the Evolv X even if you don't like RGB it can be turned off with a touch of a button.


I'm not a huge RGB guy. The only RGB thing I have is my keyboard and that's good enough for me.


birdie said:


> The X670 chipset should also be a lot more efficient than the X570 one which requires active cooling which I personally hate.


I guess I've used enough motherboards with active chipset cooling to not really think about it too much, but that's a valid observation. If I were given the choice, I'd definitely prefer passive cooling.


TheLostSwede said:


> I wouldn't expect any huge changes, but I guess we simply don't know and won't know for a while. Look at this way, the motherboard would be the same, as only in 2021 will we see a move to DDR5.
> Or you get a cheaper 3000 series CPU for now and then upgrade to the 4000 series later in the year...
> You might want to peruse this as well. It contains very detailed information about all AM4 boards.
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...FnsZYZiW1pfiDZnKCjaXyzd1o/edit#gid=2112472504


That valid, but once again. I'm using an 8 year old computer. If I can put a 4000-series CPU in later, that will be great, but the reality is that by the time I decide to replace something like the 3900X with something else, another newer model will probably be out. I don't see myself upgrading anything for at least a couple years after I pull the trigger on the new build.

That's a crazy spreadsheet by the way. I like it. Thanks!


oxrufiioxo said:


> I think there will be at least refreshed slightly better variants of current boards.... Sorta like Asus TRX40 boards getting a mini refresh for the 3990X


I like trying to hold on to a motherboard for the life of the machine. I only like switching motherboards when I'm jumping to a new platform so I try to get a good one from the get go. It definitely paid off with the P9X79 Deluxe. It's been a rock solid motherboard.


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## moproblems99 (Feb 17, 2020)

Aquinus said:


> Do the parts look good?



I can't speak for the MEG mobo as I have the Taichi which I have had no issues with other than the UEFI being clunky as hell.



Aquinus said:


> Would you suggest any changes?



I know money isn't an issue and neither is storage but I didn't buy Samsung for my build for the first time this go round.  I went with the Adata XPG 8200 Pro and I got 2 x 1TB for $250.  I think the 2TB single stick one was even $299 so I just have a hard time recommending the Sammy's anymore.  These are pretty much neck and neck with everything Samsung so perhaps take a look.



Aquinus said:


> Anything I might want to consider since this is my first time doing a custom loop?



I wouldn't really get hung up on brands.  I am using a full XSPC build at the moment.  The Photon D5 pump/res and a 240 rad.  Specifically, the block is the Raystorm Pro and is pretty much solid copper.  It gets pretty good reviews, near the top of the ones I looked at anyway and is fairly affordable.  I am also using EK ZMT tubing (the opaque black stuff) because I had tons of problems with plasticizer in my first couple go rounds.  It bends well but is considered costly.  I use straight water with a drop of Mayhem's Biocide+.  I think the plus also has anti-corrosion stuff in it.  With this setup, I change out the water every 2 years or so.

I do have some spare OG Raystorm blocks, and a Photon res without the D5 if you want to go the used route.



birdie said:


> The X670 chipset should also be a lot more efficient than the X570 one which requires active cooling which I personally hate.



I don't know if you actually have an x570 board but you would never know it is there over everything else in the case.  On my Taichi, the fan is hidden behind the shrouds and is inaudible compared to everything around it.  Can't see it, can't hear it, can't complain about it as far as I am concerned.


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## oxrufiioxo (Feb 17, 2020)

Aquinus said:


> I guess I've used enough motherboards with active chipset cooling to not really think about it too much, but that's a valid observation. If I were given the choice, I'd definitely prefer passive cooling.
> 
> I like trying to hold on to a motherboard for the life of the machine. I only like switching motherboards when I'm jumping to a new platform so I try to get a good one from the get go. It definitely paid off with the P9X79 Deluxe. It's been a rock solid motherboard.



All the $300+ boards are really good and sorta overbuilt even for the 16 Core it really just comes down to feature set/asthetics

I would look at the Msi Meg Unify and compare it to the Asus board to see which one better fits your needs. In the next price category up I would either go Aorus Master/Hero 8

The chipset fan on my Aorus Master only comes on during boot I would imagine other high end x570 boards are the same.


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## Aquinus (Feb 17, 2020)

moproblems99 said:


> I can't speak for the MEG mobo as I have the Taichi which I have had no issues with other than the UEFI being clunky as hell.


I've actually been pretty happy with the BIOS on my P9X79 Deluxe which was a motivator to stick with ASUS. My previous experience with non-UEFI MSI BIOS is that they were a little clunky, same with ASRock, but as I understand it ASRock has gotten a lot better. I just haven't decided to take a leap of faith on that front.


moproblems99 said:


> I know money isn't an issue and neither is storage but I didn't buy Samsung for my build for the first time this go round. I went with the Adata XPG 8200 Pro and I got 2 x 1TB for $250. I think the 2TB single stick one was even $299 so I just have a hard time recommending the Sammy's anymore. These are pretty much neck and neck with everything Samsung so perhaps take a look.


I was thinking about that. I could take the 512GB 960 Pro I already have out of this machine, then do as you suggest and put a larger capacity but not as fast NVMe in the second slot. Then you kind of have the best of both worlds, because the Samsung SSDs really are fast. I can put root on the Sammy and games on the other. That's definitely a good cost saving option that I'm not entirely opposed to. I might actually swap out the 970 Pro 1TB with the Adata XPG 8200 Pro 2TB.


moproblems99 said:


> I wouldn't really get hung up on brands. I am using a full XSPC build at the moment. The Photon D5 pump/res and a 240 rad. Specifically, the block is the Raystorm Pro and is pretty much solid copper. It gets pretty good reviews, near the top of the ones I looked at anyway and is fairly affordable. I am also using EK ZMT tubing (the opaque black stuff) because I had tons of problems with plasticizer in my first couple go rounds. It bends well but is considered costly. I use straight water with a drop of Mayhem's Biocide+. I think the plus also has anti-corrosion stuff in it. With this setup, I change out the water every 2 years or so.


Thanks for the input. I figured that I would just go with EKWB for the blocks and a 360 radiator that i'd mount to the side or top of the chassis, but that's about as much as I've decided so far. I need to do some research on that front, but I definitely appreciate the suggestions and telling me what you've done yourself.


oxrufiioxo said:


> All the $300+ boards are really good and sorta overbuilt even for the 16 Core it really just comes down to feature set/asthetics
> 
> I would look at the Msi Meg Unify and compare it to the Asus board to see which one better fits your needs. In the next price category up I would either go Aorus Master/Hero 8
> 
> The chipset fan on my Aorus Master only comes on during boot I would imagine other high end x570 boards are the same.


Ehh. I don't really need flashy. As long as the board is solid and handles the 3900X well, I'll be happy. I'm not really chasing records, so that's a thing too.


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## biffzinker (Feb 17, 2020)

Aquinus said:


> I'm not as young as I used to be.


/offtopic
Being 31 is old, and not as young as I used to be? What does that make me at 41? Decrepit?


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## Aquinus (Feb 17, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> /offtopic
> Being 31 is old, and not as young as I used to be? What does that make me at 41? Decrepit?


There are things that are telling me that I'm getting old. In reality, I'm just lazier. I used to love pushing my hardware to the limits and now I just want it to be fast and work. In that sense, I feel like I've gotten old. Oh, and my daughter. She makes me feel old too.  

If I lose my overclock on my current machine, I get all pissy because I have to redo it all again or else I get to suffer with stock SBe clocks, which aren't great on the 3930k.


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## moproblems99 (Feb 17, 2020)

Aquinus said:


> I understand it ASRock has gotten a lot better.



If that is true, I can't imagine what they were like before.  I said clunky, but that was being nice.  I have gotten used to it over time but damn.



Aquinus said:


> I was thinking about that. I could take the 512GB 960 Pro I already have out of this machine, then do as you suggest and put a larger capacity but not as fast NVMe in the second slot. Then you kind of have the best of both worlds, because the Samsung SSDs really are fast. I can put root on the Sammy and games on the other. That's definitely a good cost saving option that I'm not entirely opposed to. I might actually swap out the 970 Pro 1TB with the Adata XPG 8200 Pro 2TB.



I think speeds are very similar other than some of the different queue depths.  Honestly, it has been several months since I looked at any of this so I could be wrong.  That said, the Sammy was always faster, it just wasn't faster enough to justify the nearly double price (to me anyway).



Aquinus said:


> There are things that are telling me that I'm getting old. In reality, I'm just lazier. I used to love pushing my hardware to the limits and now I just want it to be fast and work. In that sense, I feel like I've gotten old. Oh, and my daughter. She makes me feel old too.
> 
> If I lose my overclock on my current machine, I get all pissy because I have to redo it all again or else I get to suffer with stock SBe clocks, which aren't great on the 3930k.



I know the feeling.


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## biffzinker (Feb 17, 2020)

You could go with a 12 core EYPC 7272. ServeTheHome just posted up a review.








						AMD EPYC 7272 Review 12 Cores of Rome
					

Our AMD EPYC 7272 review shows what 12 cores of AMD's latest "Rome" architecture can do in a power and price optimized processor




					www.servethehome.com


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## Aquinus (Feb 17, 2020)

moproblems99 said:


> If that is true, I can't imagine what they were like before. I said clunky, but that was being nice. I have gotten used to it over time but damn.


The last ASRock motherboard I bought, I hated because it didn't freaking have CPU voltage control. Voltage control on literally everything else, but not the freaking CPU. This was back during LGA775 Pentium 4 days, before the Core 2 series came out. I think I had a Pentium 4 630 at the time. As I said, it was some time ago.


biffzinker said:


> You could go with a 12 core EYPC 7272. ServeTheHome just posted up a review.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Only 3.2Ghz boost though. If I needed a server with a lot of I/O, that'd be great. Not quite what I need though.


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## biffzinker (Feb 17, 2020)

Aquinus said:


> Only 3.2Ghz boost though. If I needed a server with a lot of I/O, that'd be great. Not quite what I need though.


You get a quad channel memory bus though besides the expanded I/O.


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## Aquinus (Feb 18, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> You do get a quad channel memory bus though.


I doubt it makes up for the boost that's 1Ghz lower. I do need single-threaded applications to work well. I don't only do multi-threaded workloads.

Edit:
*Update*
Changed SSD to: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/kQ...-2280-nvme-solid-state-drive-asx8200pnp-2tt-c
Changed Case to: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/y4n8TW/phanteks-enthoo-luxe-2-atx-full-tower-case-ph-es719ltg_bk


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## Hyderz (Feb 18, 2020)

firstly *salute* on knocking out debts out of your life , no small feat well done 
i like the parts you have chosen, what gpu you gonna pair with?


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## JackCarver (Feb 18, 2020)

Aquinus said:


> Changed Case to: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/y4n8TW/phanteks-enthoo-luxe-2-atx-full-tower-case-ph-es719ltg_bk



That case is really nice, especially for water cooling and is also in consideration for my next case.




Aquinus said:


> The VRM setup looks very similar between the two. They're both 6+2 with two IR3555 60A for each phase.



Yes the ASUS has two IR3555 for each phase, the MSI uses doubler here. So the MSI setup is more like a real 12 phase board, with the drawback that the pwm signal gets halved by the doublers. The ASUS board has 6 phases and for each phase two power stages, so they  both charge at the same time. The stages of the MSI board have an offset here so that only 1 power stage charge at the same time. That said when you have for example a total current load of 120A the load of the ASUS board is split over 6 phases whereas the load of the MSI board is split over 12 phases. So 20A per phase for ASUS, 10A per phase for MSI. As the ASUS board uses 2 power stages per phase they can also split the load. But as you can see at the power loss vs output current graph of the IR3550 (also a IR 60A Stage) this graph is not linear:






So with rising output current the two stages of the 6 phase ASUS board have to handle a little more power loss than the one stage of the doubled 12 phase MSI board. I won‘t say that this is a big issue but the MSI board should be a little more efficient at higher output current.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 18, 2020)

moproblems99 said:


> If that is true, I can't imagine what they were like before.  I said clunky, but that was being nice.  I have gotten used to it over time but damn.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hmm the uefi on a 970 Extreme 4 was practicsl and intuitive


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## Melvis (Feb 18, 2020)




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## TheLostSwede (Feb 18, 2020)

Aquinus said:


> Ehh. I don't really need flashy. As long as the board is solid and handles the 3900X well, I'll be happy. I'm not really chasing records, so that's a thing too.


In all honesty, it's worth spending a bit more on these boards, as it's a big difference in terms of features between the base models and the ones around the $300 mark. Obviously no need to go insane either, but I guess it also comes down to how future proof you want your system to be in terms of M.2 expansion and USB 3.x ports, since those are in general the two things you need to do a trade-off on when it comes to the cheaper boards. Maybe I feel differently about motherboards, but I've never been one for cheap boards, as they always end up causing problems in the end.


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## ne6togadno (Feb 18, 2020)

Gigabyte X570 AORUS PRO WIFI ATX AM4 Motherboard
					






					pcpartpicker.com
				








						Gigabyte X570 AORUS MASTER ATX AM4 Motherboard
					






					pcpartpicker.com
				








						Gigabyte X570 AORUS ULTRA ATX AM4 Motherboard
					






					pcpartpicker.com


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## Aquinus (Feb 18, 2020)

Hyderz said:


> firstly *salute* on knocking out debts out of your life , no small feat well done


Thanks. Between the car and student loans, it was a hefty sum every month. I was also paying both ahead. Ended up paying them both off a year and half-ish early.


Hyderz said:


> i like the parts you have chosen, what gpu you gonna pair with?


I'm going to reuse my Vega 64. I'm pretty happy with it already when it's not CPU, power, or thermally constrained, but those are problems that can be fixed. 



TheLostSwede said:


> In all honesty, it's worth spending a bit more on these boards, as it's a big difference in terms of features between the base models and the ones around the $300 mark. Obviously no need to go insane either, but I guess it also comes down to how future proof you want your system to be in terms of M.2 expansion and USB 3.x ports, since those are in general the two things you need to do a trade-off on when it comes to the cheaper boards. Maybe I feel differently about motherboards, but I've never been one for cheap boards, as they always end up causing problems in the end.





ne6togadno said:


> Gigabyte X570 AORUS PRO WIFI ATX AM4 Motherboard
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm reluctant to invest in Gigabyte, however it sounds like the Aorus boards are pretty good. In the past I've heard horror stories about the quality of their products. If I go with a nicer board, I'm leaning towards the Crosshair VIII Hero.


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## JackCarver (Feb 18, 2020)

Melvis said:


>



No MSI MEG Godlike in this list




Aquinus said:


> I'm reluctant to invest in Gigabyte, however it sounds like the Aorus boards are pretty good. In the past I've heard horror stories about the quality of their products.



The Aorus Master has a monster vrm. But I‘m also rather a MSI/ASUS guy. Wouldn‘t go for the Hero as you only get one phase more for vcore and price is a lot higher. If you are not for oc records the ACE is sufficient.
Consider also the MSI MEG Unify, it‘s a little cheaper than the ASUS ACE and vrm is nearly the same except that MSI uses doubler.

When it comes to usb/sound/m2, nothing you can‘t add later on with an expansion card. Nearly every soundcard has a better sound than those integrated Mainboard sounds and so on. What you can‘t change is the vrm.


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## ne6togadno (Feb 18, 2020)

iirc in one of buldzoid's mb round up videos he mentioned that GB aouris x570 boards are actually good. their 1st and 2nd gen boards were mediocre at best but x570 are well designed and build for the price.
not 100% sure for the source thou. it was either review or mb round up but i cant remember exactly atm.


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## JackCarver (Feb 18, 2020)

ne6togadno said:


> GB aouris x570 boards are actually good.



The Aorus Master is one of the only X570 boards with 12 real VCore phases, besides the Aorus Xtreme with 14. That‘s really impressive as all others need doublers here.
They use a new pwm controller from Infineon, the XDPE132G5C which is capable of 16 signals to control up to 16 real phases vcore/soc


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## EarthDog (Feb 18, 2020)

Aquinas, looks good for the most part, man! Though I question putting an older Vega64 card under water at this point. I'd save that for a new GPU, personally.  




birdie said:


> than the X570 one which requires active cooling which I personally hate.


Why? Have you owned one before? An overwhelming majority of these you cannot hear the fan over anything else in your system. I've reviewed nearly a dozen of these boards from budget to high-end... couldn't hear any of them during testing.

...


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## Aquinus (Feb 18, 2020)

JackCarver said:


> When it comes to usb/sound/m2, nothing you can‘t add later on with an expansion card. Nearly every soundcard has a better sound than those integrated Mainboard sounds and so on. What you can‘t change is the vrm.


I didn't mention it, but I already have a portable DAC/Headphone amp when I'm not listening through the speakers. I do actually have a good number of USB 3.0 devices, so the number of USB ports might actually make a difference for me. I didn't really need to add expansion cards with the P9X79 Deluxe beyond the NVMe adapter and that's something I'd prefer if at all possible. Between USB and good WiFi (particularly if it's supported well in Linux,) might be worth it though.



EarthDog said:


> Aquinas, looks good for the most part, man! Though I question putting an older Vega64 card under water at this point. I'd save that for a new GPU, personally.


I don't want to run a nVidia card and I would like to support AMD's efforts since they're actually making some pretty valuable contributions to the Linux kernel (not to mention I get OOTB support through the kernel which is fantastic.) I considered getting a Navi chip, but it's not that much more performance and its been having issues. Plus, it works well enough for me now. It's not something I feel that I need to replace yet. I also got it late in the game, so it's really not all that old either.


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## JackCarver (Feb 18, 2020)

Aquinus said:


> I don't want to run a nVidia card and I would like to support AMD's efforts since they're actually making some pretty valuable contributions to the Linux kernel



Years ago it was a pain in the ass to run an ATI card under Linux  . Their fglrx module sucked, Nvidia was way better here with their proprietary Linux drivers but that seems better now. Personally and only in my opinion, Linux is one of the best Server systems but I‘m not that convinced when it comes to the desktop. I‘m running an OVH Linux Server with Debian for several tasks like Webhosting/VPN/FTP and as Mailserver but at home I‘m using windows and OSX. Linux at home is only a testsystem for the server. But the new systems like Mint seem to be really good nowadays.
The Navi cards out there aren‘t that better compared to your Vega, as you already said.
I would wait if the new AMD cards provide the needed extra performance and hopefully RTX. It looks really impressive in games.


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## EarthDog (Feb 18, 2020)

Aquinus said:


> I don't want to run a nVidia card and I would like to support AMD's efforts since they're actually making some pretty valuable contributions to the Linux kernel (not to mention I get OOTB support through the kernel which is fantastic.) I considered getting a Navi chip, but it's not that much more performance and its been having issues. Plus, it works well enough for me now. It's not something I feel that I need to replace yet. I also got it late in the game, so it's really not all that old either.


Maybe wait for big Navi... or this year's offerings and see how they shape up. I'd hate to put a block on such a card at this point in its life cycle.


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## Aquinus (Feb 18, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Maybe wait for big Navi... or this year's offerings and see how they shape up. I'd hate to put a block on such a card at this point in its life cycle.


I don't game like I used to. I might not touch the GPU for another year or two. My main complaint at this point is noise, not performance. Plus Vega 64 support is really pretty good in the Linux kernel now. I'll ride that wave as long as I can. I'm not worried about the cost of buying a block for a card I might only have for another year, but it very well could be longer than that. That really depends on what AMD does and if it turns out well.


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## Aquinus (Feb 20, 2020)

Switched the motherboard to the ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Hero with Wi-Fi.
Reasons:

The Wi-Fi choice on the board (Intel® Wi-Fi 6 AX200) is one with Linux support (Intel is usually pretty good about that.) This will let me retire my aging Linksys AE4200 acting as a wireless network bridge for my tower without relying on a finicky USB device or using a PCIe 1x slot for a card I'd have to purchase anyways.
USB ports. I'm using 7 on my current machine so there being 11 type-A ports and one type C port on this board is nice. The ACE only has 6 type A ports and 1 type C port. The ACE uses that space for HDMI and DisplayPort which I don't care about since I won't have a CPU with an iGPU.
The second M.2 slot on the Hero can use up to 4 lanes to the chipset. The WS X570-ACE only can do two. This matters because I'll be using two 4-lane NVMe cards. It also has a heatsink for the second NVMe slot.
The board has BIOS Flashback. I have this on my P9X79 Deluxe and it's great. It is the sole reason why I didn't have issues when I first built my X79 machine (memory wasn't supported on the BIOS it shipped with.) The ACE doesn't have it.


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## moproblems99 (Feb 20, 2020)

Aquinus said:


> The Wi-Fi choice on the board (Intel® Wi-Fi 6 AX200) is one with Linux support (Intel is usually pretty good about that.) This will let me retire my aging Linksys AE4200 acting as a wireless network bridge for my tower without relying on a finicky USB device or using a PCIe 1x slot for a card I'd have to purchase anyways.



My Taichi came with WiFi but my office is hard wired anyway. I wonder why these expensive AM4 bother with video outs. However, the real coup de Grace was the Taichi came with a brilliant, beautifully hand crafted unlabeled pocket screw driver.  Convertible from flat to phillips even.


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## biffzinker (Feb 20, 2020)

moproblems99 said:


> I wonder why these expensive AM4 bother with video outs.


Probably because you can install a APU such as the Ryzen 3 3200G.


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## phill (Feb 20, 2020)

Do you have a definitive parts list now @Aquinus ?   I've recently gone from my 5960X MSI X99 combo to a Hero 8 with a 3900X (waiting for a 3950X I think....) which has been a great combo for me so far.  I will say that running on air cooling for me does seems to be a little limiting for any overclocking or tweaking, temps can get quite warm for me at around 80C or so running CineBench for example...  

Looking forward to seeing what you end up with and how you feel about the upgrade when its all complete


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## moproblems99 (Feb 20, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> Probably because you can install a APU such as the Ryzen 3 3200G.



I mean....you could. But who would


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## biffzinker (Feb 20, 2020)

moproblems99 said:


> But who would


Anyone that has no use for a dedicated graphics card. A Ryzen 5 3400G is s fairly capable Quad with eight threads, and RX Vega 11 graphics.








						AMD Radeon RX Vega 11 Specs
					

AMD Raven, 1240 MHz, 704 Cores, 44 TMUs, 8 ROPs




					www.techpowerup.com


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## moproblems99 (Feb 21, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> Anyone that has no use for a dedicated graphics card. A Ryzen 5 3400G is s fairly capable Quad with eight threads, and RX Vega 11 graphics.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Who is going to buy a top tier $300+ motherboard to pair with a $50 cpu?  I totally get it for the lower end.


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## Aquinus (Feb 21, 2020)

moproblems99 said:


> My Taichi came with WiFi but my office is hard wired anyway. I wonder why these expensive AM4 bother with video outs. However, the real coup de Grace was the Taichi came with a brilliant, beautifully hand crafted unlabeled pocket screw driver.  Convertible from flat to phillips even.


Ideally I would hardwire it, but I haven't gone through the trouble of dropping some CAT6. I have an attic that can be turned into more living space which would include an office and possibly a telecom closet. Until I decide to pull the trigger on doing that (there's a lot of crap in the attic as well,) I'm probably going to stick with wireless. Between my tower and the AP is one hollow wall, a couch, and maybe 15 feet to the AP. My current setup gets me about 150MBit down on a ~215Mbit connection. I've been leaning towards ASUS because 3 of the last boards I got from them were pretty good and I was happy with them. The P9X79 Deluxe in particular was a really nice board to work with.


phill said:


> Do you have a definitive parts list now @Aquinus ?   I've recently gone from my 5960X MSI X99 combo to a Hero 8 with a 3900X (waiting for a 3950X I think....) which has been a great combo for me so far.  I will say that running on air cooling for me does seems to be a little limiting for any overclocking or tweaking, temps can get quite warm for me at around 80C or so running CineBench for example...
> 
> Looking forward to seeing what you end up with and how you feel about the upgrade when its all complete


I'm getting close with the pcpartpicker.com list in the first post. I update it as I change my mind about components. I'm feeling pretty good about my choices here so far. As for cooling, I'm already feeling that one. The 3930k gets really toasty when you push it past 4.2Ghz. I got the H100i because the 130mm air cooler I had before just couldn't keep it cool. It did fine for the 3820, but couldn't handle the 3830k when i really tried pushing it. The H100i actually does a great job, I love it, but my poor Vega 64 doesn't get that kind of treatment like it deserves and it would run a lot better and a lot more quietly if I put it under water. The reference cooler is very loud when you push it and it definitely can be pushed. I still need to pick out the water cooling components. I'm probably going to go with EKWB for the blocks, but I'm not sure about everything else. The only thing I've convinced myself of is a 360mm rad, nothing too thick. If I can find one that allows for decent airflow without doing a push-pull setup, I'd probably opt for that.

A custom loop isn't something I've done before, so I figured that I would be spending more time finalizing my decisions on those parts than the others because if I do it, I want to do it right.

Edit: Monitoring this stuff is going to be important to me too. Ideally, I will want to be able to  run `sensors` in Linux to see what's going on with things like pump load and water temperature. I have to do some investigation on that front too.


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## phill (Feb 24, 2020)

I definitely need some water cooling for my 3900X but I would think that the 3950X might be slightly better with the temp side of things.  I'd love to track down a 3950X but also have the cash for one 

A custom setup isn't the most difficult thing to do with soft tubing, it's where I started and I don't ever look back  

There's a load of knowledgeable people in TPU who can help with that setup and recommend whatever you need   The thing with Linux, is that some of the sensors are a little hit and miss with how they read it which is a shame


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## Hardcore Games (May 19, 2020)

That is why I use Windows 10, I have a large collection of games to entertain me with.


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## Aquinus (May 19, 2020)

Hardcore Games said:


> That is why I use Windows 10, I have a large collection of games to entertain me with.


Those concerns are secondary to me. I'm happy with the array of games I already can play, not to mention I have an Xbox One X and Nintendo Switch in the other room. To me, my ability to write software on my tower and have a platform that I'm comfortable developing on is far more important than playing games well, otherwise, I would have tolerated botched upgrade after botched upgrade with Windows like I did over 4 years ago.

With that said, I think a little bit of an update is in order.

Unfortunately my upgrade plans are on hold due to COVID-19. Since future employment is uncertain, I'm choosing to hold on to the money that I was planning on building a new machine with. Depending on how the job search goes and how much money I have in the bank, I'll likely make another attempt, but at this point it seems to be worthwhile to wait and see what the next generation of Ryzen chips will have to offer. So while my poor old X79 machine is aging, it still works just fine, so I'll probably see where things are in the next few months.


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## tabascosauz (May 19, 2020)

@Aquinus a very prudent idea. The current state of things will leave a lot of people I know in dire straits as they start to regret the initial wave of panic buying that could have been better invested in paying the bills. 

As to Linux, I've been on cloud 9 with kubuntu this past week, but I wouldn't dare dedicate my desktop to it even though I love it 10x more than any other distro I've tried. Matisse functioning as it should performance-wise is extremely dependent on 3 things: up-to-date AGESA in an up-to-date BIOS, up-to-date chipset drivers, and a scheduler that understands variances in silicon quality across the cores. Without Windows, you deprive it of 2 out of 3 essential components. On my chip for example, there's a vast gulf in performance between Core 0, my worst and the go-to core for most programs, and my best, Cores 5 and 7. The current N7 process is a wild ride, you can get any distribution of cores in yours, which is why the Windows scheduler improvements were so important. You don't notice it with one of the lottery ticket golden chips, but you'll definitely know if you end up with one like mine.

Also, sensors are interesting in Linux. Most that I've found over the years read basic CPU sensors and are command line-based. The few GUIs are pretty half-assed. And that's on Intel platforms, which are pretty much ready to go out of the box on most popular distros. At the very least, I'd keep a small Windows installation around to dual boot so you can get at better sensor monitoring and essential benchmarks if you need it.


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## Aquinus (May 19, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> @Aquinus a very prudent idea. The current state of things will leave a lot of people I know in dire straits as they start to regret the initial wave of panic buying that could have been better invested in paying the bills.
> 
> As to Linux, I've been on cloud 9 with kubuntu this past week, but I wouldn't dare dedicate my desktop to it even though I love it 10x more than any other distro I've tried. Matisse functioning as it should performance-wise is extremely dependent on 3 things: up-to-date AGESA in an up-to-date BIOS, up-to-date chipset drivers, and a scheduler that understands variances in silicon quality across the cores. Without Windows, you deprive it of 2 out of 3 essential components. On my chip for example, there's a vast gulf in performance between Core 0, my worst and the go-to core for most programs, and my best, Cores 5 and 7. The current N7 process is a wild ride, you can get any distribution of cores in yours, which is why the Windows scheduler improvements were so important. You don't notice it with one of the lottery ticket golden chips, but you'll definitely know if you end up with one like mine.
> 
> Also, sensors are interesting in Linux. Most that I've found over the years read basic CPU sensors and are command line-based. The few GUIs are pretty half-assed. And that's on Intel platforms, which are pretty much ready to go out of the box on most popular distros. At the very least, I'd keep a small Windows installation around to dual boot so you can get at better sensor monitoring and essential benchmarks if you need it.


The latest kernels actually are improving support by quite a bit. 5.7 should be coming with some nice sensor output such as power consumption numbers. Testing at Phoronix seems to indicate that CPU scheduling is definitely not a weak point when it comes to Linux builds with modern Ryzen chips. From that perspective, I actually think Ryzen performs quite well. Even the mobile chips seem to be slapping down Intel's offerings, so I'm not really worried about how it would perform to be completely honest.

Honestly, as long as I can run `watch sensors` and see temps and voltages, then I'm happy.

Mind you, I haven't run Windows (not even to dual boot,) for over 4 years and I don't need to start now.

Edit: When it comes to sensors, he's an example of what I have already which is more than enough.

```
$ sensors
amdgpu-pci-0300
Adapter: PCI adapter
vddgfx:       +1.06 V  
fan1:         747 RPM  (min =  400 RPM, max = 4900 RPM)
edge:         +58.0°C  (crit = +85.0°C, hyst = -273.1°C)
                       (emerg = +90.0°C)
junction:     +59.0°C  (crit = +105.0°C, hyst = -273.1°C)
                       (emerg = +110.0°C)
mem:          +57.0°C  (crit = +95.0°C, hyst = -273.1°C)
                       (emerg = +100.0°C)
power1:       23.00 W  (cap = 220.00 W)

nct6776-isa-0290
Adapter: ISA adapter
Vcore:          +0.95 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +1.74 V)
in1:            +1.01 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +0.00 V)  ALARM
AVCC:           +3.28 V  (min =  +2.98 V, max =  +3.63 V)
+3.3V:          +3.26 V  (min =  +2.98 V, max =  +3.63 V)
in4:            +1.00 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +0.00 V)  ALARM
in5:            +2.04 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +0.00 V)  ALARM
in6:            +0.80 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +0.00 V)  ALARM
3VSB:           +3.42 V  (min =  +2.98 V, max =  +3.63 V)
Vbat:           +3.34 V  (min =  +2.70 V, max =  +3.63 V)
fan1:          1739 RPM  (min =    0 RPM)
fan2:          1457 RPM  (min =    0 RPM)
fan3:             0 RPM  (min =    0 RPM)
fan4:             0 RPM  (min =    0 RPM)
fan5:             0 RPM  (min =    0 RPM)
SYSTIN:         +31.0°C  (high =  +0.0°C, hyst =  +0.0°C)  ALARM  sensor = thermistor
CPUTIN:         +41.5°C  (high = +80.0°C, hyst = +75.0°C)  sensor = thermal diode
AUXTIN:         +37.0°C  (high = +80.0°C, hyst = +75.0°C)  sensor = thermistor
PECI Agent 0:   +36.0°C  (high = +80.0°C, hyst = +75.0°C)
                         (crit = +92.0°C)
PCH_CHIP_TEMP:   +0.0°C  
PCH_CPU_TEMP:    +0.0°C  
PCH_MCH_TEMP:    +0.0°C  
intrusion0:    ALARM
intrusion1:    ALARM
beep_enable:   disabled

nvme-pci-0400
Adapter: PCI adapter
Composite:    +27.9°C  (low  = -273.1°C, high = +72.8°C)
                       (crit = +75.8°C)
Sensor 1:     +27.9°C  (low  = -273.1°C, high = +65261.8°C)
Sensor 2:     +36.9°C  (low  = -273.1°C, high = +65261.8°C)

coretemp-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Package id 0:  +35.0°C  (high = +81.0°C, crit = +91.0°C)
Core 0:        +33.0°C  (high = +81.0°C, crit = +91.0°C)
Core 1:        +32.0°C  (high = +81.0°C, crit = +91.0°C)
Core 2:        +35.0°C  (high = +81.0°C, crit = +91.0°C)
Core 3:        +35.0°C  (high = +81.0°C, crit = +91.0°C)
Core 4:        +35.0°C  (high = +81.0°C, crit = +91.0°C)
Core 5:        +35.0°C  (high = +81.0°C, crit = +91.0°C)
```


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## Aquinus (Aug 4, 2020)

Quick update of the tl;dr variety. I have a job again, but I'm contract and I need a lot of memory to do this job all while being in a mobile device, so I decided to go full retard. The Dell Precision Workstation was a close second, but it didn't scratch my itch.


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## dgianstefani (Aug 4, 2020)

16" mac isn't actually terrible. Have fun with adapter life though.

I'd also repaste with cryonaut since those i9s run hot and apple let's their silicon stay at 99c. I understand it's also possible to undervolt on mac os and would strongly recommend.


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## Aquinus (Aug 4, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> 16" mac isn't actually terrible. Have fun with adapter life though.
> 
> I'd also repaste with cryonaut since those i9s run hot and apple let's their silicon stay at 99c. I understand it's also possible to undervolt on mac os and would strongly recommend.


A couple of years ago I was using a 2015 15" Macbook Pro for work and I enjoyed using it, it was a good laptop. One of my biggest gripes about the HP Spectre is that it's a tiny laptop (although it's quick for the size.) Another couple of motivators are the two 5k Ultrafine displays I have that need TB3 and I'm pretty sure that this is the only laptop that can drive both displays at 5k. I also have Airpods and an iPhone 11 Pro Max, so I figured that if I go with Apple then everything plays nicely together.

Honestly, I haven't turned my tower on for over 3 weeks.

Also, I already know about adapter life though. I already use the 5k displays with the 3xUSB-C hub and the Spectre has two TB3 and only 1 USB-A port. So, nothing new there.


----------

