# Crypto Manipulation.. ??



## trog100 (Jan 22, 2018)

is the price of crypto coins being manipulated.. one look at this coinranking chart tell me it is.. the odd coin shows a slight deviation but the rest move up and down in perfect lock step.. the little daily graph on the far right of the image kind of points this out..

sometimes  the pattern breaks and the coins do their own thing but during all big up or down moves the lock step pattern shows up..

stellar and eos being the slightly deviant coins in this chart but the pattern of the rest is near identical.. 







trog


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## dorsetknob (Jan 22, 2018)

Nothing Strange there
they are all linked to Bitcoin for "Exchange rate"
BitCoin goes up   so do linked coins
Bitcoin goes Down  they also go Down
Much in the same way Currency's on fixed parity to the Dollar rise and fall with the dollar


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## arroyo (Jan 22, 2018)

I hear a sound of dropping cat [plum] ... he bounced [plum] ...


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## trog100 (Jan 22, 2018)

dorsetknob said:


> Nothing Strange there
> they are all linked to Bitcoin for "Exchange rate"
> BitCoin goes up   so do linked coins
> Bitcoin goes Down  they also go Down
> Much in the same way Currency's on fixed parity to the Dollar rise and fall with the dollar




i dont think that is the way things are supposed to work.. but it does seem the way they are working.. in an open market each coin should should go up or down relative to what people think its worth.. the price of bitcoin should not control the price eth for example.. they are both two entirely separate entities..

trog


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## Sasqui (Jan 22, 2018)

trog100 said:


> i dont think that is the way things are supposed to work.. but it does seem the way they are working.. in an open market each coin should should go up or down relative to what people think its worth the price of bitcoin should not effect the price eth for example.. they are both two separate entities..
> 
> trog



As much as it's not supposed to work that way... Charts don't lie


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## trog100 (Jan 22, 2018)

Sasqui said:


> As much as it's not supposed to work that way... Charts don't lie



okay so that opens the question of who is doing the manipulating and why.. also how much of a bad or good thing is this.. ??

most charts do not show it up quite like the coinranking one does.. its that little 24 hour graph that does it.. 

trog


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## dorsetknob (Jan 22, 2018)

trog100 said:


> i dont think that is the way things are supposed to work.. but it does seem the way they are working.. in an open market each coin should should go up or down relative to what people think its worth.. the price of bitcoin should not control the price eth for example.. they are both two entirely separate entities..


Of Course it works that way
you buy /Trade/sell Currencys and there is always something to relate the Value of the items your Trading/buying/selling
with Crypto Currency   its the Perceived Value of Bitcoin /linked to the Doller which drives the ebb and flow of the Rest of those Cryptocurrencys



trog100 said:


> the price of bitcoin should not control the price eth for example.. they are both two entirely separate entities..


[

I am Surprised at your Naivety


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## P4-630 (Jan 22, 2018)

"_Malware replaces bitcoin address in Windows clipboard_"
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https://tweakers.net/nieuws/134275/malware-vervangt-bitcoinadres-in-windows-klembord.html&edit-text=&act=url


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## Capitan Harlock (Jan 22, 2018)

The real problem is the demand .
Because the supplies of gpu is not fast enough for so many people asking for gpu.
So dealers and stores put high prices because they don't have enough gpu to sell and get the "normal" gain they can get.
Off course if AMD and Nvidia don't do something about it is going to be a pain getting the next new gpus when they come out .


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## dorsetknob (Jan 22, 2018)

All that would achieve is production diverted to mining because they buy large numbers and pay


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## Sasqui (Jan 22, 2018)

trog100 said:


> okay so that opens the question of who is doing the manipulating and why.. also how much of a bad or good thing is this.. ??



Read an article about a week ago from someone who dug deeper into the larger trading size picture, it boiled down to just a few players who, they said, were manipulating prices by creating large phantom transactions.  The posted price is tied to the most recent trades.  How it's tied, no clue nor does anyone seem to know because there is absolutely no oversight or regulation.  So in essence, the price is fictitious.  Though, once you create the perception of value, it's a self fulfilling "reality".


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## trog100 (Jan 22, 2018)

because of the high gpu prices i dont think many gamers are upgrading at the moment.. the makers wont care because they cant keep up with demand anyways.. 

the problem is you cant un-invent things and go backwards  crypto is here to stay.. small miners are not buying these things anyway the price is too high.. retailers are forced into this simply to avoid  having empty shelves.. i prefer the high prices to the empty shelf option.. 

i am not naive dorset.. simply trying to start a discussion thread.. 

trog


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## R-T-B (Jan 22, 2018)

Yep, I know it's crazy, but humans manipulate the price of crypto by...  wait for it...

buying and selling it.


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## arroyo (Jan 22, 2018)

Bitcoin is a perfect example of "milking a cow". Cattle were fed by cowboys at Dec 2017. 
Big cows were killed by them just before XMAS. Now the rest of herd is beeing milked out.
There will be moment, when milk just stops and all herd will be killed at once.
I really feel sorry for those who put any value into it. Hold on they said.


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## R-T-B (Jan 22, 2018)

arroyo said:


> There will be moment, when milk just stops and all herd will be killed at once.



I think we've progressed beyond it vanishing entirely.  But I do feel it is overvalued.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 22, 2018)

trog100 said:


> the makers wont care because they cant keep up with demand anyways..


They could, but they don't want to risk supplying more than there is demand for.

AIBs order cards by the quarter.  There's a shortage now because they underestimated demand for cards back in September/October of last year.


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## jaggerwild (Jan 22, 2018)

I don't blame miners I blame Greed! But yeah they are slowly killing an industry, oh well next bad habit.......


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## Vayra86 (Jan 22, 2018)

Sasqui said:


> Read an article about a week ago from someone who dug deeper into the larger trading size picture, it boiled down to just a few players who, they said, were manipulating prices by creating large phantom transactions.  The posted price is tied to the most recent trades.  How it's tied, no clue nor does anyone seem to know because there is absolutely no oversight or regulation.  So in essence, the price is fictitious.  Though, once you create the perception of value, it's a self fulfilling "reality".



The price of all these crypto coins will always be fiction because it has no future and these are currently and will always be pure speculative goods, carried only by the faith of people who hope it survives another day and those people are misled by a few whales who get rich off it.


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## R-T-B (Jan 22, 2018)

Vayra86 said:


> The price of all these crypto coins will always be fiction because it has no future



There's the thing...  YOU think it has no future.  All these investors are basically betting against you.

That being said, I strongly believe the fastest way to break an investors confidence with bitcoin is to make him try and spend one.

I for one believe crypto has a future, just not in it's present incarnations (thus me saying it's overvalued in all present markets).  But it's ideals, a good portion of it's technology, and it's very ideas?  Those have future.  Bitcoin/whatever coin of today though?  No.  I do not believe so.  I can't imagine how long the checkout lines would be if we switched to them...


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 22, 2018)

tcoin might have a shot: Tiberius to jump into cryptocurrencies with metals-backed digital coin


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## R-T-B (Jan 22, 2018)

FordGT90Concept said:


> tcoin might have a shot: Tiberius to jump into cryptocurrencies with metals-backed digital coin



Sounds like a less scammy e-gold.


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## Papahyooie (Jan 22, 2018)

I don't understand why you keep saying that coin prices shouldn't be linked... The price of everything is connected. If the USD goes up compared to the BP, then BTC/USD also goes up compared to BTC/BP. Similarly, if BTC/USD goes up, then ETH/USD also goes up because ETH is primarily traded for BTC. 

BTC is the backbone of crypto. If BTC/USD goes up or down, everything else will as well. Of course you always have some movement within that standard... LTC may move more than BTC because it happens to be the flavor of the day. Similarly, many smaller coins go on runs and dives all the time. That's just how the market works. 

The fact that coins move in lockstep isn't proof of manipulation... it's just proof that it is a market.. which isn't really saying anything of value. This behavior is expected, maybe even could be considered healthy. I'm not saying that manipulation doesn't happen... it does, and I'm 100% positive of that because I know of people that do it. But that's on smaller coins. You really can't pump and dump BTC because it's too big. But let's be real here... the entirety of BTC is one big pump and dump mixed in with much more risk. Since BTC is so much bigger, you're less likely to make ridiculous gains as a sure thing, because you can't control the behemoth. The smaller coins, you can to an extent. But when it all comes down to it, you're investing in BTC with the hope of everyone else doing the same thing, with the intent to sell when the price is high. Manipulating coins (or any market, really) is functionally the same as investing in it. It simply changes to "manipulation" when you can gather enough leverage to meaningfully affect the price. And from my understanding, nobody has enough leverage in BTC to meaningfully affect the market without there being some huge cooperation involved. 

You're chasing a ghost, man. The market is functioning more or less as intended.


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## Vayra86 (Jan 22, 2018)

Papahyooie said:


> I don't understand why you keep saying that coin prices shouldn't be linked... The price of everything is connected. If the USD goes up compared to the BP, then BTC/USD also goes up compared to BTC/BP. Similarly, if BTC/USD goes up, then ETH/USD also goes up because ETH is primarily traded for BTC.
> 
> BTC is the backbone of crypto. If BTC/USD goes up or down, everything else will as well. Of course you always have some movement within that standard... LTC may move more than BTC because it happens to be the flavor of the day. Similarly, many smaller coins go on runs and dives all the time. That's just how the market works.
> 
> ...



I would say the market is drunk as hell, and just following the gold standards of stock markets blindly - there is no regard for the coin as a currency and how it affects the state of its use as one. Any crypto coin that is like this, will fail and does not qualify, in my view, as a valid thing you can 'price right' at any time. A few years ago we told ourselves 'this will settle down' - it won't settle down, it hasn't, it will keep exploding until it finally implodes and everyone realizes a reset is required. We've already had some of those... I honestly think the time is soon upon us.


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## Papahyooie (Jan 22, 2018)

Vayra86 said:


> I would say the market is drunk as hell, and just following the gold standards of stock markets blindly - there is no regard for the coin as a currency and how it affects the state of its use as one. Any crypto coin that is like this, will fail and does not qualify, in my view, as a valid thing you can 'price right' at any time.



I never said it was priced right. And I agree completely that there is no regard for crypto as an actual currency (a fact I have lamented many times, as I have an ideological interest in crypto in general succeeding as a currency.) I don't think it will fail, but that's purely my speculation. The wonderful thing about crypto is that it is unregulated, and therefore unencumbered with regard to its ability to evolve. Bitcoin itself may fail, sure. But crypto itself will not, I believe. Regardless, none of that has anything to do with what I said, and is a completely different conversation (though apparently every thread about crypto ever, will eventually devolve into "bitcoin will fail" and "no it won't." ..... )


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