# RV790 Reaches 1.00 GHz, Indicates Overclocked SKUs in the Making



## btarunr (Mar 24, 2009)

Following our report of ASUS preparing an overclocked Radeon HD 4890 accelerator with clock speeds well above 900 MHz (core) and 1000 MHz (memory), the possibility has come to surface that AMD has carved out a new range of Radeon HD 4890 accelerators from the unusually high overclocking headroom the RV790 GPU has. The credit also goes to the reference-design PCB, which is known to possess some of the highest quality digital PWM components to handle power, and 4 GT/s GDDR5 memory, which is now known to have a good overclocking headroom.

It has surfaced on the forums of Chinese tech community PCInLife, that the RV790 rather effortlessly reached the 1 GHz mark, the slider-limit of Catalyst Control Center, sparking off fresh rumors that AMD partners may be creating a fresh niche of highly-overclocked cards shortly after Radeon HD 4890 comes to be. The overclocker reached speeds of 1 GHz (core) and 1125 MHz (4.50 GHz effective, memory). At the said speeds, the card was put through 3DMark Vantage with its eXtreme settings. It churned-out a score of X5480, which puts its performance somewhere between those of the GeForce GTX 280 and GeForce GTX 285. It should also be taken into account that the drivers RV790 users the world over have been using, are preliminary beta drivers. AMD plans to release Catalyst 9.4 with the release of Radeon HD 4890, which just may impact positively on the performance of the product. 






Factory-overclocked cards based on ATI Radeon have since now been a formality. Even cards with the iconic HIS IceQ TurboX branding, haven't been known to have high (~15~20%) increase in clock speeds. With this feat surfacing, it has been established that the RV790 holds the capability to reach some very high clock speeds. On course to the 1 GHz mark, the overclocker at PCInLife comfortably reached 925/1025 MHz (X5021) and 950/1075 MHz (X5202). It sounds plausible that these speeds could be the speeds factory-overclocked cards come at, with a branding system similar to what NVIDIA uses: a tier-1 (light overclock), tier-2 (moderate overclock), tier-3 (high overclock), and tier-4 (extreme overclock). At any rate, this is turning out to be an exciting fortnight for the high-end GPU industry.

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## Binge (Mar 24, 2009)

I have to say 1 ghz on an RV790 is very impressive.  If it behaves better than it's predecessor I suspect this card will be a contender.


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Mar 24, 2009)

orally? you dont say ... 1 ghz?

trying to find out what cooling


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## nafets (Mar 24, 2009)

I'd take these results with a grain of salt.

When I see hardware review sites pushing near 1GHz with retail HD4890s, then I'll be impressed...


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## Binge (Mar 24, 2009)

that pic shows the fan at 100%.  Yeah, I can believe they'd need it.  That sucker must be LOUD.


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## Weer (Mar 24, 2009)

What I want to know is what exactly did they do to th RV770 core to be able to clock it this high. Same process, since configuration, same amount of pipes and the exact same layout. What the heck is the difference between RV770 and RV790?! It feels like ATI is cheating, and it's annoying. But what am I supposed to accuse them of - using magic?


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## wolf (Mar 24, 2009)

a GTX260 core 216 easily gets between a GTX280 and 285 when overclocked. this isnt revolutionary but as i suspected you've gotta clock the nuts off it for it to be a solid contender to GTX280/285's


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Mar 24, 2009)

Weer said:


> What I want to know is what exactly did they do to th RV770 core to be able to clock it this high. Same process, since configuration, same amount of pipes and the exact same layout. What the heck is the difference between RV770 and RV790?! It feels like ATI is cheating, and it's annoying. But what am I supposed to accuse them of - using magic?



fairy dust 

one thing is certain, its not the same core


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## tofu (Mar 24, 2009)

1GHz is not so special, if you consider the 2900XT was also doing 1GHz pre-release. In the end, it was not indicative of its average user performance at all. I think AMD should scrap any plans for an overclocked SKU and just drop two RV790's on a revised R700 PCB, 4890X2 heh. That should be enough to take on the GTX295.


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## X-TeNDeR (Mar 24, 2009)

Considering the upcoming price-cuts and 4890 price tag we get on launch, AMD has a pretty good lineup imo.
But i can't stop thinking about HD5xxx series...


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## OzzmanFloyd120 (Mar 24, 2009)

Looks good. Keeps making me considering going red on my next graphical adventure.


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## btarunr (Mar 24, 2009)

Weer said:


> What I want to know is what exactly did they do to th RV770 core to be able to clock it this high. Same process, since configuration, same amount of pipes and the exact same layout. What the heck is the difference between RV770 and RV790?! It feels like ATI is cheating, and it's annoying. But what am I supposed to accuse them of - using magic?



No, different process, not the one used in making the RV770: http://www.techpowerup.com/?86006

Also while it's the same specs, it's a remake of the RV770. The two GPUs aren't exactly the same. The RV790 has a larger die, different ASIC, package.


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## Wile E (Mar 24, 2009)

Binge said:


> that pic shows the fan at 100%.  Yeah, I can believe they'd need it.  That sucker must be LOUD.



If they are anything like myself, the fan automatically gets set 100% for benching, whether it actually needs it or not.


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## erocker (Mar 24, 2009)

I want a 1ghz GPU out of the box.  Where do I sign up/send the check to?


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## alwayssts (Mar 24, 2009)

You see that 8-pin connector that means it consumes between 225-300W?   Yeah...That's the fairy dust.  The 'standard' 4890 will have 2 6-pin plugs.  Undoubtedly this is of the 'extreme edition' group that will 'be up to 950mhz out of the box.'  Watch as the standard models crap out right below that from running out of juice...right around where a volt-modded 4870 would...when it hits the power-draw wall.

They could have called 4890 and '4890 8-pin power connector edition' 4870+ and 4890.  Like the 4850 with lower voltage and 1 6-pin connector vs the 4870 with higher voltage (1.263v) and 2 6-pin.  This is just a redesign on the high speed 55nm process, and stepping it up one (1.3v) and two (1.3v+, 8-pin) more notches.  The realistic difference between rv770 and rv790 is voltage, and I'd bet rv790 standard hits the 225W wall when overclocking, just like a volt-modded rv770, at a little over 900mhz, while rv790EE obviously will not.  On top of that, ASUS is going to have software vgpu control (surely our man W1zzard will make one for the rest of us) to use up  every last inch of that 300w threshold, there-by squeezing every last breath from rv770..erm, 790.

It's the voltage and power connectors that are the point, and getting into that 225-300W camp for this little chip surely means that the new PWM and high-speed process will come in handy...but don't be deceived for how simple of an update this REALLY is.


http://www.nordichardware.com/news,8986.html

I think this is an excellent strategy from AMD.  Milk that rv770 (design) with more voltage and power until it clocks high enough to to compete with it's portly step-brother!

Makes sense to me.

Waiting for announcement of announcement of GTX290 with 8-pin plug in 3...2....1....


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## AltecV1 (Mar 24, 2009)

what is wrong with you people you can buy a 1ghz hd4870 and you start whineing


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## erocker (Mar 24, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> what is wrong with you people you can buy a 1ghz hd4870 and you start whineing



Nobody is whining.  I think you are confusing Ghz with Gb's (Gigahertz/Gigabytes).  You can certainly buy a HD 4870 with 1Gb of video memory but 1Ghz GPU's are not available.


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## AltecV1 (Mar 24, 2009)

erocker said:


> Nobody is whining.  I think you are confusing Ghz with Gb's (Gigahertz/Gigabytes).  You can certainly buy a HD 4870 with 1Gb of video memory but 1Ghz GPU's are not available.



i ment 1ghz!!!!!!!learn do read dude:shadedshu 4890 is tweaked 4870thats all it is a tuned up 4870


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## Imsochobo (Mar 24, 2009)

I dont care, they overclock better, and probaly wont have 300W power consumtion, a 4870x2 @ 850 doesnt exceed 300 W by my guess.

I HIGHLY doubt a 750 W psu can handle 2x 4870X2 @ 825//1000 and a PHII @ 3800 mhz. with 6 harddrives + watercooling!


I know it can do about 825-850 W peak, if the cpu is atleast 125 W @ 3.8 ghz, +2x 300 W+ motherboard+drives+watercooling(15W)+Fans.

My point is, it isnt renamed, its diffrent, they are taking the safe path, not going high end 40NM which isnt tested very good, and could lead to bad gfx.(high end market)

surely not too big of an diffrence from 4870 which by my opinion best buy ive EVER done.

*PS: not telling you guys buy ATI, cause buy what games favour, GTX series are good now


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## Hayder_Master (Mar 24, 2009)

i still remember when i say this statement when i read the title of 4890
("imagine this card can overclock at 1GHz")


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## ChaoticAtmosphere (Mar 24, 2009)

Bring it on!!!


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## InnocentCriminal (Mar 24, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> i ment 1ghz!!!!!!!learn do read dude:shadedshu 4890 is tweaked 4870thats all it is a tuned up 4870



What?

You can't get a 1GHz GPU on the market today - _you're wrong!_ erocker was only stating that a 1GB card is available, not a 1GHz GPU - he's right.

Can you provide a link to your claims?


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## AltecV1 (Mar 24, 2009)

InnocentCriminal said:


> What?
> 
> You can't get a 1GHz GPU on the market today - _you're wrong!_ erocker was only stating that a 1GB card is available, not a 1GHz GPU - he's right.
> 
> Can you provide a link to your claims?



where did i say that i can get it TODAY no seriously man if you can find it on sale i will go and buy it *I MENT IN THE FUTURE*  you guys need do learn do read


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## Lillebror (Mar 24, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> what is wrong with you people you can buy a 1ghz hd4870 and you start whineing



Your actualy saying you can BUY it - not that its gonna be out in the future 

Im so gonna by that card, when it gets out! Even tho its a small improvement, everythings gonna help.


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## crtecha (Mar 24, 2009)

Binge said:


> that pic shows the fan at 100%.  Yeah, I can believe they'd need it.  That sucker must be LOUD.




Hahaha that was the first thing I saw before the clocks 

Very nice OC id like to see a more in depth article though.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 24, 2009)

Im Pretty sure they maxed the fan out so they don't have to test for BSODs, because for 1 BSODs can corrupt Graphics drivers and make them continue to crash.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 24, 2009)

erocker said:


> I want a 1ghz GPU out of the box.  Where do I sign up/send the check to?



PM me. Ill give you my address 



eidairaman1 said:


> Im Pretty sure they maxed the fan out so they don't have to test for BSODs, because for 1 BSODs can corrupt Graphics drivers and make them continue to crash.



Thats like the 5th thing you have taught me. Thanks man!


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 24, 2009)

That was a tip from a buddy I game with, he is as much an enthusiast as I am. I couldn't figure it out for the life of me as to why when my monitor would go into standby (blank) I would move the mouse and the monitor would come back to and I would have multiple boxes covering the screen with black and white lines and I would have to remove power from the Monitor Totally to restore proper operation of it, graphics driver controls the monitor powerup.

But on that other part, Id run a fan at max to see what a card can do because if the card can't go that far with the fan at max even, either the cooler is not that good, or the Core is already reached its max, but from looks of it the 4890 is a good part indeed. TBH I wish I could run my fan at max but CCC wont allow it on the 1950, I know the fan is capable of it because it does run at max during POST (Runs at Max Speed) before it's handed off to the Operating system. Also lets be honest here, CPUs/GPUs that run at very high speeds on Stock/lower voltage and Stock Cooler are the Cherry Picked Parts- thus they slap higher price tag on it, all the rest else cant without voltage adjustment or requires 3rd party cooling. I also believe companies dont max the Cores of their Parts out because they want to make you think you are actually getting an extreme overclock out of it. I remember during the Socket7-P3/Athlon Era that a 100MHz OC was a Major Feat, and all CPUs at time were very high in pricing- aka before they ever thought of the Extreme Parts

Anyways end rant and thx for the Kudos


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## Marineborn (Mar 24, 2009)

lol, i see much bickering going on about this new news, i hope it can break over 1gig, that would be sweet and possible make me think about buying one. well only if they have a x2 version


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## InnocentCriminal (Mar 24, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> where did i say that i can get it TODAY no seriously man if you can find it on sale i will go and buy it *I MENT IN THE FUTURE*  you guys need do learn do read



You also need to be able to word your sentences correctly. As Lillebror pointed out, you're stating you're able to buy a 1GHz clocked GPU - to anyone that would indicate present tense.


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## soryuuha (Mar 24, 2009)

eidairaman1 said:


> Im Pretty sure they maxed the fan out so they don't have to test for BSODs, because for *1 BSODs can corrupt Graphics drivers and make them continue to crash.*



I learned some new things today


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## $ReaPeR$ (Mar 24, 2009)

this must be a nice GPU but until wizz tests it i dont trust anyone


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## newtekie1 (Mar 24, 2009)

Binge said:


> I have to say 1 ghz on an RV790 RV770 is very impressive.  If it behaves better than it's predecessor I suspect this card will be a contender.



Fix'd that for ya

The HD4890 is nothing more than an RV770 with a beefed up power scheme to allow higher clocks.  From what I have seen, there is nothing special about the RV790 over the RV770, they are the exact same core, any improvements come from the PCB not the GPU core, maybe some binning was done to pick the top RV770's to put on the HD4890's but that is it.  AMD just changed the name to raise the hype level.


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## btarunr (Mar 24, 2009)

newtekie1 said:


> Fix'd that for ya
> 
> The HD4890 is nothing more than an RV770 with a beefed up power scheme to allow higher clocks.  From what I have seen, there is nothing special about the RV790 over the RV770, they are the exact same core, any improvements come from the PCB not the GPU core, maybe some binning was done to pick the top RV770's to put on the HD4890's but that is it.  AMD just changed the name to raise the hype level.



No, it's a new chip with the same specs.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 24, 2009)

btarunr said:


> No, it's a new chip with the same specs.



I doubt it.  Maybe a new revision, but not a new chip.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 24, 2009)

newtekie1 said:


> I doubt it.  Maybe a new revision, but not a new chip.



You're wrong M8. Its a new chip.


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## wolf (Mar 24, 2009)

its *modified* yes absolutely (from a preliminary look at the chip physically)

doesnt seem to do much more than allow for the higher clock speeds for now, the meat of the GPU appears exactly the same.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 24, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> You're wrong M8. Its a new chip.



How do you know?  Have you seen the chip?  Have you seen any real tech specs on it?  What changes have been done?  Do we even know a transistor count?

All we are going on is AMD naming it RV790, that is really the only thing that tells use it is a new chip.  I'm just saying, I don't think it is any different from RV770.  I believe RV790 is nothing more than a binned RV770, and the PCB has been beefed up to allow higher more stable voltage, leading to higher clocks.  There have been no changes to the core itself.


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## Valdez (Mar 24, 2009)

The rv790's die size is also bigger than the rv770's


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## AltecV1 (Mar 24, 2009)

InnocentCriminal said:


> You also need to be able to word your sentences correctly. As Lillebror pointed out, you're stating you're able to buy a 1GHz clocked GPU - to anyone that would indicate present tense.



im pretty sure that my sentences were correct YOU just miss understanded them!
*now stop  and be a man!*


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## Valdez (Mar 24, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> im pretty sure that my sentences were correct YOU just miss understanded them!
> *now stop  and be a man!*



You're arguing with native English language users.


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## AltecV1 (Mar 24, 2009)

Valdez said:


> You're arguing with native English language users.


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## iStink (Mar 24, 2009)

it takes AMD 1ghz to do what it takes nvidia 650mhz to do.  

I understand there's differences in architecture, but doesn't a chip using a higher frequency need more voltage? And less voltage for more performance is where we want to go, not more voltage for equal amount of performance... 

Still though, as always, amd will need to offer these cards at a killer price to compete with nvidia.  Also, they aren't using havok in their drivers just yet.  These preliminary tests show promise.


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## AltecV1 (Mar 24, 2009)

nvidia fanboy gool looking avater man


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## iStink (Mar 24, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> nvidia fanboy



ACTUALLY, I consider myself an ATI fanboy more than anything lol


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## laszlo (Mar 24, 2009)

you're all right don't argue on this

is not a new design is based on 770 but they've made a few important modification;i think the power leakage is less than at 770 also this is why it can reach 1ghz so easy

time will tell soon what is under the cover..


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## EarlZ (Mar 24, 2009)

Hopefully the 1Ghz version can contend with the GTX285


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## iStink (Mar 24, 2009)

EarlZ said:


> Hopefully the 1Ghz version can contend with the GTX285



I think it should.  If beta drivers (with lack of havok) can fall in between a 280 and 285, then tweaked drivers and havok, along with higher overclocks should put this over the edge (but then again, that's against a stock 285.  Taking into account the overclockability of a 285, then the 285 might still be top dog)


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 24, 2009)

Valdez said:


> The rv790's die size is also bigger than the rv770's



Yeah that kinda gives it away as a new chip. But hey time will tell. However you wanna bet newtekie1?


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## AltecV1 (Mar 24, 2009)

EarlZ said:


> Hopefully the 1Ghz version can contend with the GTX285



"its performance somewhere between those of the GeForce GTX 280 and GeForce GTX 285"
                                 its from the main story


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## laszlo (Mar 24, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Yeah that kinda gives it away as a new chip. But hey time will tell. However you wanna bet newtekie1?



even if the die is larger this "new" chip has a father-770;since the lauch of it amd like nvidia has learned what can be improved an voila the result


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 24, 2009)

For all intensive purposes its a new chip.


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## Valdez (Mar 24, 2009)

Nothing new in this, this happened before with r300. R300 (r9700) became r350(r9800pro), after that r360(r9800xt). They were basically the same gpus, only the clocks were different.


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## $ReaPeR$ (Mar 24, 2009)

how can you argue on if this chip is or isnt an rv 770 since we do not know thw technical specs in detail?!!!! we do not know anything yet for this chip lets just wait and then argue on it.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 24, 2009)

Valdez said:


> The rv790's die size is also bigger than the rv770's



Where did you find the die size specs?  I haven't seen any evidence of a die size increase.



iStink said:


> it takes AMD 1ghz to do what it takes nvidia 650mhz to do.
> 
> I understand there's differences in architecture, but doesn't a chip using a higher frequency need more voltage? And less voltage for more performance is where we want to go, not more voltage for equal amount of performance...
> 
> Still though, as always, amd will need to offer these cards at a killer price to compete with nvidia.  Also, they aren't using havok in their drivers just yet.  These preliminary tests show promise.



With ATi the core and shaders run at the same speed, with nVidia they don't.  nVidia's shaders are way over 1GHz, and the shaders are the work horses.



TheMailMan78 said:


> Yeah that kinda gives it away as a new chip. But hey time will tell. However you wanna bet newtekie1?



Is the die size bigger?  I haven't seen anything stating this.



TheMailMan78 said:


> For all intensive purposes its a new chip.



If you say so...We'll just have to wait for the cards to actually come out and for W1z to do a review on them.


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## AltecV1 (Mar 24, 2009)

*Quote:
Originally Posted by iStink View Post
it takes AMD 1ghz to do what it takes nvidia 650mhz to do.

I understand there's differences in architecture, but doesn't a chip using a higher frequency need more voltage? And less voltage for more performance is where we want to go, not more voltage for equal amount of performance...

Still though, as always, amd will need to offer these cards at a killer price to compete with nvidia. Also, they aren't using havok in their drivers just yet. These preliminary tests show promise.
With ATi the core and shaders run at the same speed, with nVidia they don't. nVidia's shaders are way over 1GHz, and the shaders are the work horses.*

your 100% right


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## btarunr (Mar 24, 2009)

newtekie1 said:


> How do you know?  Have you seen the chip?



Yes







It has been confirmed that the new chip has a larger die. That's probably to minimize inter-component leakages.


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## iStink (Mar 24, 2009)

newtekie1 said:


> With ATi the core and shaders run at the same speed, with nVidia they don't.  nVidia's shaders are way over 1GHz, and the shaders are the work horses.



Which requires more voltage though?  I mean, does it pretty much even out between the two or would it make more sense to save voltage on the gpu and redirect a portion of it to the shaders.


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## PCpraiser100 (Mar 24, 2009)

1GHz works for me


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## newtekie1 (Mar 24, 2009)

iStink said:


> Which requires more voltage though?  I mean, does it pretty much even out between the two or would it make more sense to save voltage on the gpu and redirect a portion of it to the shaders.



The whole core gets the same amount of voltage as far as I am aware, though it is possible that more voltage is being directed towards the shaders than the rest of the GPU.


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## Steevo (Mar 24, 2009)

All I have seen in this thread, is
ATI fanbois running rampant like a all girl sleepover on redbull, and Nvidia fanbois proclaiming that the new chip is junk and will never be as precious as their rebadged hardware.


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## erocker (Mar 24, 2009)

Steevo said:


> All I have seen in this thread, is
> ATI fanbois running rampant like a all girl sleepover on redbull, and Nvidia fanbois proclaiming that the new chip is junk and will never be as precious as their rebadged hardware.



It's happened before and will happen again and again and again and again....


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## sneekypeet (Mar 24, 2009)

IDK im a bit of an Nvidia fanboy since I got my 280, but still a 1GHz core clock is just a mark that gives any user a but of a chub. Congrats IMHO to ATI/AMD for breaking the barrier with it on a retail level!


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## iStink (Mar 24, 2009)

Steevo said:


> All I have seen in this thread, is
> ATI fanbois running rampant like a all girl sleepover on redbull, and Nvidia fanbois proclaiming that the new chip is junk and will never be as precious as their rebadged hardware.



PICK A SIDE OR GTFO!

i kid of course


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 24, 2009)

Steevo said:


> All I have seen in this thread, is
> ATI fanbois running rampant like a all girl sleepover on redbull, and Nvidia fanbois proclaiming that the new chip is junk and will never be as precious as their rebadged hardware.



ATI FTW! Nvidia SUXOR!  Fanbois unite!


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## ShadowFold (Mar 24, 2009)

I call Pidge


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## MrMilli (Mar 24, 2009)

newtekie1 said:


> How do you know?  Have you seen the chip?  Have you seen any real tech specs on it?  What changes have been done?  Do we even know a transistor count?
> 
> All we are going on is AMD naming it RV790, that is really the only thing that tells use it is a new chip.  I'm just saying, I don't think it is any different from RV770.  I believe RV790 is nothing more than a binned RV770, and the PCB has been beefed up to allow higher more stable voltage, leading to higher clocks.  There have been no changes to the core itself.



RV790 is built on a new process (55GT). That alone makes it a new chip.



newtekie1 said:


> The whole core gets the same amount of voltage as far as I am aware, though it is possible that more voltage is being directed towards the shaders than the rest of the GPU.



R6xx/R7xx generation chips use multiple clock/voltage domains (even thought the rops & shaders run on the same clock).


Like btarunr mentioned, the rv790 will be bigger probably to minimize inter-component leakages and it will be built on a better 55mn process. The PCB will have better power circuitry too.
So even if the main voltage increases, that doesn't have to translate into a higher TDP or heat output at 850Mhz. That is, if they can drastically decrease leakage (which seems to be true).


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## Selene (Mar 24, 2009)

Nvidia needs to can the whole GTX275 Idea, we dont need another card, thats lower then the GTX280/285.
bring on the GT212 dang it!


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## wolf (Mar 24, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> For all intensive purposes its a new chip.



for all intensive purposes its a modified RV770, call it whatever you like its an RV770 made to run faster, whatever that entails great.

your saying its a different chip solely because the die size is different (all we know so far, AT A GLANCE) 

what we actually know so far is it performs exactly as an equally clocked 4870 does, its a faster running RV770.


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## InnocentCriminal (Mar 24, 2009)

... but wouldn't it be incorrect to call it a RV770 when it's a RV790?


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## wolf (Mar 24, 2009)

InnocentCriminal said:


> ... but wouldn't it be incorrect to call it a RV770 when it's a RV790?



yes its RV790, that's what they have decided to call the chip. this is all so speculative anyway, i cant wait till W1z gets his hands on it and facts become facts. I am very confident of what the results will be.


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## InnocentCriminal (Mar 24, 2009)

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it as well.


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## Steevo (Mar 25, 2009)

To throw in, at least this isn't just rebadged 3870 making the rounds with a different cooler and MOAR STICKARZ!!!!!


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## DrPepper (Mar 25, 2009)

Crap I was hoping this was a bad chip so my card wouldn't be worth less monies


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## btarunr (Mar 25, 2009)

wolf said:


> your saying its a different chip solely because the die size is different (all we know so far, AT A GLANCE).



That's not all, it's a new package. Can't you see the package components around the die different? It is a different GPU that happens to share the same specs. as the RV770. By your logic, a GTX 285 is a rebadged GTX 280, and a GTS 250, a rebadged 8800 GTS-512. You're probably going to say "no way! GTX 285/GTS 250 are 55 nm", well? now that's a new package with the same specs, and higher clock speeds, isn't it? Same with this. Both RV770 and RV790 are built on the "55 nm" lithography, though not the same process. RV790 comes on a newer, more advanced process within 55 nm.


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## wolf (Mar 25, 2009)

btarunr said:


> That's not all, it's a new package. Can't you see the package components around the die different? It is a different GPU that happens to share the same specs. as the RV770. By your logic, a GTX 285 is a rebadged GTX 280, and a GTS 250, a rebadged 8800 GTS-512. You're probably going to say "no way! GTX 285/GTS 250 are 55 nm", well? now that's a new package with the same specs, and higher clock speeds, isn't it? Same with this. Both RV770 and RV790 are built on the "55 nm" lithography, though not the same process. RV790 comes on a newer, more advanced process within 55 nm.



i never ever claimed GT200b was a new GPU, its a shrink, no more, no less.

like i said, we "know" (from preliminaries) it performs the same as a 4870 at that speed, so really, what does it bring to the table except for higher speeds (which arent to be downplayed, everyone loves faster gear) whatever changes have been made on the CHIP serve to facilitate this speed, clock for clock we are seeing no benefits.

as you say its a different GPU carrying the same specs, so pretty much the same deal as GT200 to GT200b except in place of a shrink we have some minor tweaks.

I am a huge fan of the competition, and it would be nice to see this card force nvidias hand on pricing or a new card.

and @ Steevo, get used to it man, the better part of us are irrational when it comes to hardware. ATi lovers will always think their new unreleased GPU will tear nvidia limb from limb and it never really does, they compete well, as they should. just as nvidia fanboys think they can hold the crown forever, they cant, and it wouldn't be fun if they did.


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## btarunr (Mar 25, 2009)

wolf said:


> like i said, we "know" (from preliminaries) it performs the same as a 4870 at that speed, so really, what does it bring to the table except for higher speeds (which arent to be downplayed, everyone loves faster gear) whatever changes have been made on the CHIP serve to facilitate this speed, clock for clock we are seeing no benefits



Now apply just that to GTX 285. Clock for clock it's equipotent to GTX 280. ATI's move to call RV790 a new GPU is not any less legitimate compared to NVIDIA's carving out new products based on G200b, a GPU with the same specs but higher clock speeds. NVIDIA needed a 55 nm chip to reduce costs, ATI needed a newer process to increase clock speeds.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 25, 2009)

btarunr said:


> Now apply just that to GTX 285. Clock for clock it's equipotent to GTX 280. ATI's move to call RV790 a new GPU is not any less legitimate compared to NVIDIA's carving out new products based on G200b, a GPU with the same specs but higher clock speeds.



all the boards that are released are minor revisions, I mean this has been going on since 2002 for crying outloud.


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## indybird (Mar 25, 2009)

1GHz on a GPU?  No big deal...S3 Graphics has had a card that can do 1GHz since September 08.

I don't know what you guys are all getting excited about...

-Indybird [/Sarcasm]


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 25, 2009)

Diff app dude, Games are what AMD/NV do, if S3 can hang with the big dogs then that's great in games, otherwise its insignificant to us.


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## wolf (Mar 25, 2009)

btarunr said:


> Now apply just that to GTX 285. Clock for clock it's equipotent to GTX 280. ATI's move to call RV790 a new GPU is not any less legitimate compared to NVIDIA's carving out new products based on G200b, a GPU with the same specs but higher clock speeds. NVIDIA needed a 55 nm chip to reduce costs, ATI needed a newer process to increase clock speeds.



like i said i really don't think GT200b is a new GPU at all, its a smaller GT200. the RV790 has undergone more changes than a fab switch obviously, as something under the hood has had work done to allow these higher speeds.

what im really getting at is its a tweaked GPU, i am NOT trying to downplay it, AMD and everyone here will call it what they want to, i will always think of it as a tweaked Rv770, the same way i still think of a GTX285 as JUST a tweaked GTX280. neither of these cards brought much to the table, but offer a viable performance increase.

neither GT200b or RV790 are sliced bread, the cats ass or the bee's knee's anyway, we are sitting smack bam in the middle of the remake cycle, i think what everyone just wants to see is R8XX vs GT3XX


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 25, 2009)

I found some more shots....


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## Initialised (Mar 27, 2009)

We've had our grubby mits on a couple of PowerColour 4890's. I believe we have the first Crossfire data from these cards.











Vantage:
4870 1 GB
P10228
X4181

4890 1GB
P11332
H6930
X4671

GTX295 (no SLi AKA GTX275, no PhysX)
P11038
H7351
X4805

4890 1GB Crossfire
P17949
H12587
X8717

GTX295 (SLi, no PhysX)
P18144
H13324
X8962

Putting 4890 ~11% ahead of 4870 and Crossfire 4890 marginally behind GTX295. However our Crysis testing for the GTX295 gave consistently lower minimum FPS with Crossfire 4890 Being on the edge of playable at 1080p on 'Very High'

More Data and images here: http://www.cyberpowersystem.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3786&PN=1


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## InnocentCriminal (Mar 27, 2009)

Any OC results?


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 28, 2009)

I have a feeling i will pick up a Non Ref unit.


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## iStink (Mar 30, 2009)

I'm gonna have to take the side of "it's a new chip."  But based on what we see here, even though it's a new chip, it isn't exactly leaps and bounds over the previous 770 (which is why this argument can exist.)


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 30, 2009)

iStink said:


> I'm gonna have to take the side of "it's a new chip."  But based on what we see here, even though it's a new chip, it isn't exactly leaps and bounds over the previous 770 (which is why this argument can exist.)



I don't think ATI or Nvidia will be making any real leaps for a while. Nothing out there is utilizing the current generations GPU power. They do not want to "over saturate" the market with power. I'm willing to bet we wont see any real big jumps for another 6 months from ether camp.


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## Steevo (Mar 30, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I don't think ATI or Nvidia will be making any real leaps for a while. Nothing out there is utilizing the current generations GPU power. They do not want to "over saturate" the market with power. I'm willing to bet we wont see any real big jumps for another 6 months from ether camp.



GTA4


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 30, 2009)

Steevo said:


> GTA4



No that has to do with a vastly un-optimized engine. Nothing to do with horsepower of the GPU.


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## iStink (Mar 30, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> No that has to do with a vastly un-optimized engine. Nothing to do with horsepower of the GPU.



exactly.  Consoles always mess up PC games in this way.  Rainbow 6 Vegas was the same way.


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## erocker (Mar 30, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> No that has to do with a vastly un-optimized engine. Nothing to do with horsepower of the GPU.



Actually it has to do with the insane amount of textures the game has.  That's why on the consoles the settings are at medium and resolution is no higher than 720p.  In my opinion if they just would of limited the graphics settings and named "medium" "high" there would be a lot less bitching with the game.


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## DrPepper (Mar 30, 2009)

erocker said:


> Actually it has to do with the insane amount of textures the game has.  That's why on the consoles the settings are at medium and resolution is no higher than 720p.  In my opinion if they just would of limited the graphics settings and named "medium" "high" there would be a lot less bitching with the game.



Then you would have the bitching about how the game looks shit. No matter what game companies do people will always complain about it. Usually they say the game is unoptimised whereas its just that they either have it at too high a setting or the gpu can't handle it.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 30, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> Then you would have the bitching about how the game looks shit. No matter what game companies do people will always complain about it. Usually they say the game is unoptimised whereas its just that they either have it at too high a setting or the gpu can't handle it.



Don't you think duel 4850s should be able to handle a port on high of a game that was ran with medium settings on a SINGLE X1900 natively? Most of the time I agree with you Pepper but on this game your off.


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## erocker (Mar 30, 2009)

I'd like to see most games have settings that a high-end card can't handle.  The game will have more longevity.  I can remember a time (Far Cry, Oblivion) when this was true.  Those games lasted quite a long time in terms of popularity.  It's just my opinion, but if you don't want to mess around with video settings and tweak them to get the best performance on your system, might as well stick with consoles.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 30, 2009)

erocker said:


> I'd like to see most games have settings that a high-end card can't handle.  The game will have more longevity.  I can remember a time (Far Cry, Oblivion) when this was true.  Those games lasted quite a long time in terms of popularity.  It's just my opinion, but if you don't want to mess around with video settings and tweak them to get the best performance on your system, might as well stick with consoles.



This is why I think you will see GPU makers slowing down on advancements. Why make a mid-grade card that can run everything maxed out? No one will buy your top end card. I mean a 4850 or 9800 can slap everything around now without issue with the right CPU.

Nvidia and ATI will kill themselves in R&D to make anymore advancements if the market doesn't dictate. Consoles are really holding the PC world back now. This is why I love the Wii. It makes great innovative games that do not encroach on the PC market.

The only positive side is we don't have to spend so much money now to play the latest and greatest anymore.


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## Wile E (Mar 31, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Don't you think duel 4850s should be able to handle a port on high of a game that was ran with medium settings on a SINGLE X1900 natively? Most of the time I agree with you Pepper but on this game your off.



It can, as long as you keep the textures lower. The textures are huge in that game. It's limited by framebuffer, not really gpu. A 512MB card can't use the highest textures in GTA4, regardless of the gpu attached to it. It dumps out into system mem, and while my 4870+4850 512MB crossfire ran it at great framerates on high settings, the game had all kinds of rendering errors when the cards ran out of memory. Things like cars hovering a few feet off the ground, and other anomalies, along with massive dips in framerate, I'm guessing from waiting on the testures to get back from the system memory. It's not really that it's poorly optimized, it just needs a lot of memory.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 31, 2009)

Thats the whole Problem, the game is a Port, Consoles use RISC based CPUs, but when they are ported, the code isn't really rewritten for the PC and thats where all the performance suffers. The last games that i recall running well on both PC and Console was Need For Speed Underground 1 and 2.


Wile E said:


> It can, as long as you keep the textures lower. The textures are huge in that game. It's limited by framebuffer, not really gpu. A 512MB card can't use the highest textures in GTA4, regardless of the gpu attached to it. It dumps out into system mem, and while my 4870+4850 512MB crossfire ran it at great framerates on high settings, the game had all kinds of rendering errors when the cards ran out of memory. Things like cars hovering a few feet off the ground, and other anomalies, along with massive dips in framerate, I'm guessing from waiting on the testures to get back from the system memory. It's not really that it's poorly optimized, it just needs a lot of memory.


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## DaMulta (Mar 31, 2009)

erocker said:


> I want a 1ghz GPU out of the box.  Where do I sign up/send the check to?



I WANT 2Ghz out of the box damn it


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## Steevo (Mar 31, 2009)

eidairaman1 said:


> Thats the whole Problem, the game is a Port, Consoles use RISC based CPUs, but when they are ported, the code isn't really rewritten for the PC and thats where all the performance suffers. The last games that i recall running well on both PC and Console was Need For Speed Underground 1 and 2.




Most modern CPUs are a crossover between RISC, and CISC. Leaning more to RISC, but with large amounts of cache.


It really is all about the amount of framebuffer available, and the reason I got a 1GB model card.


If you read the statement Rockstar had about the settings on GTA4 they mentioned the game would be like medium settings and 22 draw distance on a PC, I run 36 draw distance, detail distance maxxed, and most settings on high or very high and the game looks awsome. Adding two 1Gb readyboost USB drives made further improvement by allowing the system to dump unused parts of the OS back to the USB drives. 


You guys really need to understand what is going on. All the textures for the cars, people, trees, buildings, sidewalks. most other games they use the same texture, and small generic textures, and use other stuf to make the game look good, but with this, huge textures and even with no AA and at higher resolutions it looks awsome.


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## LifeOnMars (Mar 31, 2009)

Um, Call Of Duty runs well on everything,,,damn i bet i could even play on my mobile


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## LifeOnMars (Mar 31, 2009)

Steevo said:


> Most modern CPUs are a crossover between RISC, and CISC. Leaning more to RISC, but with large amounts of cache.
> 
> 
> It really is all about the amount of framebuffer available, and the reason I got a 1GB model card.
> ...



Its so true, Im only running an X3, 9800GT but im only at 1280x1024. I get 42 avg with my lowest frames at 29-30....purely cos im not greedy with the settings. It still looks gorgeous and I have Shadows High which look SWEET


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## TooFast (Mar 31, 2009)

btarunr said:


> Now apply just that to GTX 285. Clock for clock it's equipotent to GTX 280. ATI's move to call RV790 a new GPU is not any less legitimate compared to NVIDIA's carving out new products based on G200b, a GPU with the same specs but higher clock speeds. NVIDIA needed a 55 nm chip to reduce costs, ATI needed a newer process to increase clock speeds.



listen to the man he is right! lets just all shut up and wait till april 2.


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## DrPepper (Mar 31, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Don't you think duel 4850s should be able to handle a port on high of a game that was ran with medium settings on a SINGLE X1900 natively? Most of the time I agree with you Pepper but on this game your off.



Obviously sometimes there are exceptions but as many explained games like rainbow 6 vegas are graphically balls and run like balls as well. People complained that crysis was unoptimized because they can't get 16xAA and AF on 1920 x 1080 and they had a single 4870. To be honest the better the graphics the more it takes to run the game thats the trend. Crysis runs like a bitch because of all the little detail that is far away in the back ground.

Crysis automatically adds AF the higher your settings and if you don't have a lot of vram the game will get choppy because the system ram gets filled up as well and then it gets even more choppy. While in warhead they have reduced the distance at which detail increases and thus better performance. When you look at console games and I noticed this with Cod:waw the game is incredibly detailed up close but far away and its looks like your back on the atari.


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## iStink (Mar 31, 2009)

LifeOnMars said:


> Um, Call Of Duty runs well on everything,,,damn i bet i could even play on my mobile



lol so funny u say that, I CAN run call of duty on my touch pro.  There's a PPC version.  It kind of sucks but hey, it's COD! COD runs good on both platforms (unless a different developer takes over) mainly because infinity ward and activision have a loyalty of sorts to pc.  COD was always a pc game before a console game.  

Here's the bottom line, and you can all argue until your heads fall off, there's nothing that won't make this true:  Games that hit consoles first are optimized for that console, and by the time they get to PC (GTA4 for example) the publishers could care less about pleasing PC gamers because at that point, putting money into optimizing the engine for PC's isn't as profitable as simply releasing it at bare minimum requirements.  

A console game will generally always need brute force to run smooth on a pc, and with the way the cpu's are in today's consoles, having quad core in these games is a must.


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