# Chia - The Cryptocurrency Gunning for Your SSD and HDD Space That Could Bring Another Tech Sector Pricing Up



## Raevenlord (Apr 19, 2021)

A new cryptocurrency going by the name of Chia could bring about a boom in demand for HDD and SSD, which have been kept relatively untouched by the latest mining and supply constraints. However, optimistic predictions of falling prices for NAND (optimistic for consumers, that is) could prove to be erroneous. Apparently, the new cryptocurrency, which saw its whitepaper being published in February 9th and has already led to shortages of high-performance SSDs from China's Jiahe Jinwei. 

The cryptocurrency was designed to be mined in SSDs and HDDs, looking to cut on electricity cost from proof of Work (PoW) cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin and (still) Ethereum. The intention is for the cryptocurrency to have as broad an appeal as possible, by excluding the need for prohibitive investments in either ASICs (for Bitcoin) or GPUs (for Ethereum and other Dagger/Hashimoto-based calculations). It also leverages that which is most widely available and oftentimes left empty of any workload - storage space. Due to this, it's been reported that Chinese miners are already buying HDDs (4 TB through to 18 TB) and SSDs (mainly NVMe solutions) in bulk. This could prevent technologists from ushering in the current trend of falling storage pricing - if demand becomes as crazy as it has become in the GPU space.



 



Chia was designed by BitTorrent creator Bram Cohen, and uses a specific type of consensus and ledger-assurance system that's described as Proofs of Space and Time. The blockchain is farmed via Proof of Space, which is done inside your HDD or SSD via computing through already-in-storage models, and then contacts Chia's servers for Proof of Time - which essentially ensures that a required amount of time has passed between the block's generation and its actual inclusion in the network, to prevent any ill-intentioned farmer from assuming control of the network.

There are several advantages to farming a cryptocurrency such as Chia over the more general proof of work models. HDDs and SSDs take up much lesser space than a rack of GPUs, whilst consuming much less power, generating much less heat and noise, and thus allowing for much higher scalings in farming scenarios (which is what Chia calls its mining, because it's more ecologically sustainable than the usual mining workloads).

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## TheLostSwede (Apr 19, 2021)

Good thing I have 11TB spare on my NAS then...


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## 64K (Apr 19, 2021)

Hell, if miners could find a way to mine crypto from programmable coffee makers then there would be no coffee makers for sale anywhere except from scalpers charging 3 times the MSRP.


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## randompeep (Apr 19, 2021)

And I was thankfull for the decline of storage prices' over the last 5 years or so...


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## windwhirl (Apr 19, 2021)

NO. GOD, PLEASE NO.


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## Valantar (Apr 19, 2021)

Yet another demonstration that crypto is nothing more than a race to invent ever new stuff for people to invest in gamble on. Utter f*****g waste in every single concievable way. Making the rich richer, screwing over the planet (production of SSDs also pollutes, after all, and e-waste is a major problem already), but of course this is "liberating" people from some undefinable "oppression". The ideological BS surrounding this is still staggering to me. It's just another way to maintain the status quo of predatory capitalism.


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## xkm1948 (Apr 19, 2021)

Shit coins that is.


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## efikkan (Apr 19, 2021)

Can someone please invent a cryptocurrency that runs on stupidity?
- The only infinite resource humanity possesses…


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## Makaveli (Apr 19, 2021)

hmm so I will have to grab another Seagate Iron Wolf to throw in the Nas alittle sooner than I expected.


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## windwhirl (Apr 19, 2021)

Valantar said:


> but of course this is "liberating" people from some undefinable "oppression


IMO, all these coins attack a problem that doesn't exist.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Apr 19, 2021)

and after this, it will be your keyboard or even your mouse...


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## spectatorx (Apr 19, 2021)

Since long time it already was possible to mine on hdds and ssds:








So i wouldn't be pessimistic about this new coin, it may fail as literally hundreds if not thousands of cryptocoins failed. Basically all is about success of such coin: it succeeds? Prices and availability of storage are going to end up in gpus way. The coin fails? Nothing changes and storage prices keep getting lower as they are all the time.

That's how burstcoin ended:








						Burst price today, SIGNA to USD live, marketcap and chart | CoinMarketCap
					

Get the latest Burst price, SIGNA market cap, trading pairs, charts and data today from the world’s number one cryptocurrency price-tracking website




					coinmarketcap.com
				



Not profitable at all. Chia most likely will be the same.


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## Night (Apr 19, 2021)

Hey, I got an idea... why don't you mine on this?!


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## Valantar (Apr 19, 2021)

Night said:


> Hey, I got an idea... why don't you mine on this?!
> 
> View attachment 197391


Here's a suggestion for truly environmentally friendly crypto: make the blockchain analogue, have the proof of stake be that someone comes over to your house to check that you are still physically in posession of the thing in question. Have them write it down in a publicly available ledger. After all the actual """"""work"""""" done in crypto mining _purely_ serves to demonstrate that "hey, I own X amount of product Y, plz reward me accordingly". If they just skipped the entire part where this equipment needs to be turned on doing meaningless busywork we'd skip a major portion of the environmental damage caused. And we wouldn't have a bunch of holes in the ground either


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## MadMan007 (Apr 19, 2021)

Can't wait for governments to ban this shit....block chain is an interesting programming technology, all this currency stuff is dogshit though.


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## Hargema (Apr 19, 2021)

Can they get lost already


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## CheapMeat (Apr 19, 2021)

Burstcoin and other storage coins ARE profitable now, that's the point. Bitcoin didn't reach $64,000 when that video came out. I can tell you don't understand financial gains off all this. Burst coin was $0.001 before the current boom. Now it's $0.012. in your head you're thinking how pathetic, it's still under a dollar, not profitable. But you're so wrong. $500 at $00.1 is now at least $2500 at $0.012. That's massive! All the coins under a dollar are huge life changing gains compared to $64,000k BTC reaching $100,00k now. Sadly, this is what basically everyone does when the world cares about money above all else. There are many people who'd rather mine than live off minimum wage or go to work 40hrs a week with an hour or more drive and back. Basically everyone is trying to find a way to get out of basically slavery and find true freedom. And lots and lots of people have made hundreds of thousands to millions now since coins went from example $0.002 to $1, that's massive. The current crypto scene is at it's all time high. So everyone is chasing the next cheap one to pump and dump. That's how it works if you want to gain quickly instead of waiting 40+ years to retire and live on Social Security. I'm just going to assume the naysayers are well off right now and financially in a good place, so don't truly care.  I'm not a fan of all our PC hardware costing more of course, heck I buy used parts because that's what I used to be able to afford and now even used is 2x/3x the price. I'll never get my dream builds now. But I totally understand what's going on and why.


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## windwhirl (Apr 19, 2021)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> and after this, it will be your keyboard or even your mouse...


I laugh, but I hope you're wrong.


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## 1d10t (Apr 19, 2021)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> and after this, it will be your keyboard or even your mouse...



Hashrate determine from word per minute and click per second


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## rainxh11 (Apr 19, 2021)

Blockchain, cryptocurrency, this technologies have proven to bring more harm than good over the past decade
bitcoin, what was to be a revolutionary currency to replace the printed out of nothing paper money
is now a commodity people gambling with, it is used as anything but being a currency, sucking up electricity and silicon resources like there's no tomorrow, crypto mining is being to the environment, far more than real mining, what an irony
nobody will spend a currency to buy anything if that currency value keep doubling, tripling, halving in a mere of months
the only people who benefiting are the already corrupt and wealthy wall street  guys and bankers,
using to launder money, use it as an offshore private account,
cryptocurrencies proved to be a mere other tool  to keep the status quo


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## R-T-B (Apr 19, 2021)

This is going nowhere fast. Nice clickbait outrage though.



rainxh11 said:


> Blockchain, cryptocurrency, this technologies have proven to bring more harm than good over the past decade
> bitcoin, what was to be a revolutionary currency to replace the printed out of nothing paper money
> is now a commodity people gambling with, it is used as anything but being a currency
> nobody will spend a currency to buy anything if that currency value keep doubling, tripling, halving in a mere of months
> ...


I have used it as a currency in the past, but sadly I think you are right about it's present direction.


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## Metroid (Apr 19, 2021)

hahahahahha, now they are trying to make hds and ssd's expensive like gpu's ehhe, they want to inflate the price of those to earn money from idiots hehe.


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## Tomgang (Apr 19, 2021)

Good God, will this crypto nightmare never end. What's next, mining on smartphones or maybe a calculator. How about a cars build in infotainment systems. That has a cpu two. 

I am so sick and tired of this crypto bs. I need my gpu but not for 2-3 times the cost and now soon maybe also storage will cost 2 or 3 times the msrp.

Glad I just ordered a few nvme SSD and a pair of 14 tb HDD. That can keep me going for a while.

I wish for crypto to crash and burn. Sink to the bottom of the ocean and be forgotten forever.


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## zlobby (Apr 19, 2021)

What's next? Crypto mined on PSU  or RAM?


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## windwhirl (Apr 19, 2021)

zlobby said:


> What's next? Crypto mined on PSU  or RAM?


Don't give them ideas.


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## Tomgang (Apr 19, 2021)

zlobby said:


> What's next? Crypto mined on PSU  or RAM?


Shhh don't give them any new ideas



windwhirl said:


> Don't give them ideas.


LOL you where faster.


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## efikkan (Apr 19, 2021)

zlobby said:


> What's next? Crypto mined on PSU  or RAM?


Pen, paper and a D20 dice.


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## Frank_100 (Apr 19, 2021)

I wonder it it would be profitable for the hardware manufactures to buy coin to bid up the price and create demand for their hardware?


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## Tomgang (Apr 19, 2021)

Frank_100 said:


> I wonder it it would be profitable for the hardware manufactures to buy coin to bid up the price and create demand for their hardware?


A good point, but please delete this message. Don't give Intel, nvidia or amd any good ideas. It's all ready bad enough as it is. Just kidding about deleting, but seriously be careful what you ride.

You never know when you give greedy people, scalpers, miners or companies good ideas for there own gain to much suffering for you and us normal gamer or people just using a pc.


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## silentbogo (Apr 19, 2021)

Now, that's where all the idiotic fuss about SSD shortages came from... Got a dozen messages from my friends and colleagues this morning, reposting useless crap from news outlets. I didn't even bother to read any of them.
Guys, we've had SiaCoin for a long time. Even at its peak it didn't cause any shortages, and at this point became a victim of its own success: it can barely compete with cloud storage, regardless of its many technical advantages only because it became more and more expensive.

The only reason we'll get SSD shortages this/next year, is because our usual suspects Samsung, WD, Kioxia, Hynix and Micron will decide to f#$%k you over once again because _[ generic placeholder for power outage || contamination || natural/unnatural disaster || COVID ]_.


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## spectatorx (Apr 19, 2021)

Tomgang said:


> Good God, will this crypto nightmare never end. What's next, mining on smartphones or maybe a calculator. How about a cars build in infotainment systems. That has a cpu two.
> 
> I am so sick and tired of this crypto bs. I need my gpu but not for 2-3 times the cost and now soon maybe also storage will cost 2 or 3 times the msrp.
> 
> ...


It is already possible to mine on smartphones. Someone as proof of concept already tried mining on calculator, i think, but i may be wrong about that.



zlobby said:


> What's next? Crypto mined on PSU  or RAM?


Both already are in demand from miners. Every mining rig needs good, power efficient psu. Mining on cpus is a thing and like with any cpu oriented calculations ram impacts performance so for better mining results better ram is welcome.


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## Tomgang (Apr 19, 2021)

spectatorx said:


> It is already possible to mine on smartphones. Someone as proof of concept already tried mining on calculator, i think, but i may be wrong about that.
> 
> 
> Both already are in demand from miners. Every mining rig needs good, power efficient psu. Mining on cpus is a thing and like with any cpu oriented calculations ram impacts performance so for better mining results better ram is welcome.


It was a thing mining on smartphone. It seems there has been a ban on smartphone mining since 2018 at the last mining nightmare.









						How to mine cryptocurrencies on your Android smartphone
					

You can no longer make money by mining on your phone as you sleep




					www.techradar.com
				




But trying to do it on a calculator, why am I not surprised. Just showing People's greed will never end. Mine on anything possible. Game consoles has also been used for mining. PS4 was used under the 2017/2018 crypto boom.


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## Why_Me (Apr 19, 2021)

A New Threat to New York’s Clean Energy Goals: Bitcoin Mining - New York Focus
					

A Finger Lakes power plant plans to ramp up Bitcoin mining. Environmentalists warn dozens of fossil-fueled plants could follow.




					www.nysfocus.com


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## Tomgang (Apr 19, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> A New Threat to New York’s Clean Energy Goals: Bitcoin Mining - New York Focus
> 
> 
> A Finger Lakes power plant plans to ramp up Bitcoin mining. Environmentalists warn dozens of fossil-fueled plants could follow.
> ...


Yeah that's the next. More power consumption and pollution. Just great, as we others trying to make as little pollution as possible, mining going to ruin that or at least help out to make our trying in vain.


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## silentbogo (Apr 19, 2021)

Tomgang said:


> Game consoles has also been used for mining. PS4 was used under the 2017/2018 crypto boom.


When? What? How? Or is it just a speculation from 2017-2018 clickbaits?
The only thing you could do on a PS4 is mine XMR on CPU or some garbage like Electroneum (you may also know it as "that garbage script-kiddies bunlde with malware to overheat your CPU").
PS4's APU is about as powerful as Carrizo APU inside your run-of-the-mill $150 netbook of that time. Not much compute oomph to mine even one cup of bitter coffee. On PS4 it's not even profitable(electricity costs overrun your puny profit even at optimistic 800H/s XMR). GPU mining was always out of question, because the only thing that kinda works on PS4 is Gallium.


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## Tomgang (Apr 19, 2021)

Also now we are at the hardware. Mining gpu's are well known. Now we can also say hello to mining storage devices.









						Chinese Manufacturers Begin Production of Cryptocurrency Mining Dedicated SSDs As Chia Coin Gains Popularity
					

Chinese storage makers have commenced production of dedicated cryptocurrency mining SSDs after the rise in popularity of Chia Coin.




					wccftech.com
				




Excuse me while I go out and p**e over this BS. Crypto is the worst invention ever. It's time for governments to step in and take control over this. It's uncontrolled and cause suffering and desperation among people who just want a gaming gpu or soon new storage. Also companies can't upgrade there servers because you guessed it, gpu and storage is gulped up by either miners or scalpers. I know there is also a ressource shortage, but that is not alone the culprit for this shortage of hardware.



silentbogo said:


> When? What? How? Or is it just a speculation from 2017-2018 clickbaits?
> The only thing you could do on a PS4 is mine XMR on CPU or some garbage like Electroneum (you may also know it as "that garbage script-kiddies bunlde with malware to overheat your CPU").
> PS4's APU is about as powerful as Carrizo APU inside your run-of-the-mill $150 netbook of that time. Not much compute oomph to mine even one cup of bitter coffee. On PS4 it's not even profitable(electricity costs overrun your puny profit even at optimistic 800H/s XMR). GPU mining was always out of question, because the only thing that kinda works on PS4 is Gallium.


As far I know and have read. It was possible by installing Linux on ps4. Probably a hacked ps4's consoles. I have not read much into it.

I Will not be surprised if ps4 and other consoles will be used two. Specially if crypto keep going strong and gpu is still a problem to get the next coming month.

There is all ways someone trying different ways to earn money.


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## Deleted member 205776 (Apr 19, 2021)

Yay. More Cryptocringe.


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## silentbogo (Apr 19, 2021)

Tomgang said:


> As far I know and have read. It was possible by installing Linux on ps4.


Yes, it is possible, just like mining on a *TI-84 calculator*. The cake is a lie. You should get into habit of being skeptical of clickbaits.


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## R-T-B (Apr 19, 2021)

zlobby said:


> What's next? Crypto mined on PSU  or RAM?


It already uses PSUs.  I mean the PSU is basically the root of everything.



silentbogo said:


> Yes, it is possible, just like mining on a TI-84 calculator. The cake is a lie. You should get into habit of being skeptical of clickbaits.


You can mine with pen and paper.  Somehow I do not anticipate a paper shortage, though.



Tomgang said:


> It was a thing mining on smartphone. It seems there has been a ban on smartphone mining since 2018 at the last mining nightmare.


That was never profitable.  That's why it died, not a "ban."


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## silentbogo (Apr 19, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> You can mine with pen and paper. Somehow I do not anticipate a paper shortage, though.


That's exactly what I'm talking about. 
BTW, just checked how SIA is doing - no change since last year. $13/TB/mo and ridiculous bandwidth fees. Chia isn't even listed anywhere and doesn't have an developed infrastructure to bring any kind of meaningful impact. Really doubt there's gonna be a reason for anyone to become a doomsday-prepper with shelves full of HDDs and SSDs.


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## R-T-B (Apr 19, 2021)

silentbogo said:


> That's exactly what I'm talking about.
> BTW, just checked how SIA is doing - no change since last year. $13/TB/mo and ridiculous bandwidth fees. Chia isn't even listed anywhere and doesn't have an developed infrastructure to bring any kind of meaningful impact. Really doubt there's gonna be a reason for anyone to become a doomsday-prepper with shelves full of HDDs and SSDs.


Yep clickbait article is clickbait, sorry guys.


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## shilka (Apr 19, 2021)

Dont care if Chia is real and useful or not i needed an excuse for a second 18 TB hard drive and this was the perfect excuse


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## dragontamer5788 (Apr 19, 2021)

zlobby said:


> What's next? Crypto mined on PSU  or RAM?



RAM is what caused the GPU-shortage.

A lot of alt-coins are designed to be RAM hard, and HBM2 and GDDR6x are the best RAM for those kinds of problems. Sure, there's a GPU attached, but you're just using the GPU-portion as a RAM interface (cheapest way to get lots of HBM2 or GDDR6x)


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## evernessince (Apr 19, 2021)

I was wondering why the price of 16 and 18TB HDDs shot up.  One day 18TB drives were $380 to $400 and now they are $500 - $600.


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## mechtech (Apr 19, 2021)

If aliens see/seen the stuff humans did/do we would be the laughingstock of the galaxy.


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## Why_Me (Apr 19, 2021)

evernessince said:


> I was wondering why the price of 16 and 18TB HDDs shot up.  One day 18TB drives were $380 to $400 and now they are $500 - $600.


RAM just shot up $20 today for a 16GB kit here in the US.


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## zlobby (Apr 19, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> RAM is what caused the GPU-shortage.
> 
> A lot of alt-coins are designed to be RAM hard, and HBM2 and GDDR6x are the best RAM for those kinds of problems. Sure, there's a GPU attached, but you're just using the GPU-portion as a RAM interface (cheapest way to get lots of HBM2 or GDDR6x)


Agreed. But I was referring to general RAM, not vRAM.



R-T-B said:


> It already uses PSUs.  I mean the PSU is basically the root of everything.
> 
> 
> You can mine with pen and paper.  Somehow I do not anticipate a paper shortage, though.
> ...


It was more of a sarcasm. Naturally everything needs a PSU. I was thinking of a method to use the PSU to mine crypto on the power meter. 



efikkan said:


> Pen, paper and a D20 dice.


Dungeoncoin?


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## DuxCro (Apr 19, 2021)

Hooraaaay! Can we please get some crypto that is mined on RAM? Also mined only on CPU's? What else can we F up? Sound cards? I can't afford to be a PC gamer any more.


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## dragontamer5788 (Apr 19, 2021)

zlobby said:


> Agreed. But I was referring to general RAM, not vRAM.



Its really hard for me to imagine a cryptocoin algorithm that'd be better on DDR4 than GDDR6x or HBM2e.


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## Tomgang (Apr 19, 2021)

How about we just mine on everything with some sort of ram, cpu or gpu in it. Let's begin mining on smart watches, smart TV and so on as well. Soon every electronic device will be double or triple the msrp. Happy mining and scalping. while pc user and gamers are knocked back to the stone age.

What nice future we are going to...


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## R-T-B (Apr 19, 2021)

DuxCro said:


> Can we please get some crypto that is mined on RAM? Also mined only on CPU's?


Been around for a bit.



Tomgang said:


> What nice future we are going to...


lol all the above has happened for years and the world still hasn't cared enough to mine seriously on anything but gpus and asics.  Something about actually making money...


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## InVasMani (Apr 19, 2021)

Shouldn't they targeting Optane or system memory not HDD's and NVME drives also this just makes it look like cryptocurrency's real goal is to scalp different system components and drive up the costs of them and somehow get away with the price fixing of them at a mass scale.


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## Shihab (Apr 19, 2021)

64K said:


> Hell, if miners could find a way to mine crypto from programmable coffee makers then there would be no coffee makers for sale anywhere except from scalpers charging 3 times the MSRP.


There are as many kitchen appliances capable of mining crypto as there are idiots who think strapping a processor and a modem on an oven is a good idea, times a million. Google "IoT cryptojacking."
Fortunately, the said idiots were cheap enough to use slow silicon. Your coffee maker will have to settle with being a lowly node in some Russian botnet... </s>


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## PooPipeBoy (Apr 19, 2021)

zlobby said:


> What's next? Crypto mined on PSU  or RAM?



Introducing WindCoin, the cryptocurrency that can be mined by your PWM fans! More fans, more RPM, more CFM, more dBA and more RGB = Profit!!!

Whoops, now those 140mm fans you were going to buy cost over $200 each and are out of stock!!


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## zlobby (Apr 19, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Introducing WindCoin, the cryptocurrency that can be mined by your PWM fans! More fans, more RPM, more CFM, more dBA and more RGB = Profit!!!
> 
> Whoops, now those 140mm fans you were going to buy cost over $200 each and are out of stock!!


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## Wirko (Apr 19, 2021)

mechtech said:


> If aliens see/seen the stuff humans did/do we would be the laughingstock of the galaxy.


You got it all wrong. That Hashi Hashimoto guy is an alien who was sent to Earth by the galactic command. They saw that the human race is progressing at a much faster rate than planned, and her (his?) task was to do _something_. Seeding the first cryptocurrency, a brand new and untested invention, didn't initially sound like a good idea. However, after the Earth completed fifteen orbits around its star, it turned out to be effective like nothing before it.

Hashi Hashimoto is now head of civilisation control department. Crypto has been used on several planets at a similar stage of development, with great success every time.


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## MIRTAZAPINE (Apr 20, 2021)

I think it had begin online. I don't see my 14TB elements or easystore on stock on amazon anymore . Should have an extra 18TB ultrastar for my archieval need. Sad day for data hoarders and internet historians. I guess time to buy 2.5 inch 5TB for me and the SSD I need.

A couple of year back in 2017 cypto craze, hdd minimg with burstcoin was thing that thankfully died out. Looking at the world now with covid and shortage of tech in general. Its not looking positive.


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## Thefumigator (Apr 20, 2021)

xkm1948 said:


> Shit coins that is.



You won't believe this... but there really is a cryptocoin named shitcoin....


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## shilka (Apr 20, 2021)

MIRTAZAPINE said:


> I think it had begin online. I don't see my 14TB elements or easystore on stock on amazon anymore . Should have an extra 18TB ultrastar for my archieval need. Sad day for data hoarders and internet historians. I guess time to buy 2.5 inch 5TB for me and the SSD I need.
> 
> A couple of year back in 2017 cypto craze, hdd minimg with burstcoin was thing that thankfully died out. Looking at the world now with covid and shortage of tech in general. Its not looking positive.


The Seagate Ironwolf Pro drives are better faster and more quiet than the Ultrastar drives i have a 14 TB of both and the Ironwolf Pro is superior in every way other than price


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## MIRTAZAPINE (Apr 20, 2021)

shilka said:


> The Seagate Ironwolf Pro drives are better faster and more quiet than the Ultrastar drives i have a 14 TB of both and the Ironwolf Pro is superior in every way other than price


I going with price per GB with decent reliability rather than all out performance which many of the WD carry. I am strictly WD or HGST for 3.5 inch drive after a bad seagate experience which luckily I recover the data from after a few months. For 2.5 inch drive I am in seagate as their the only one that offered the 5TB size.


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## shilka (Apr 20, 2021)

MIRTAZAPINE said:


> I going with price per GB with decent reliability rather than all out performance which many of the WD carry. I am strictly WD or HGST for 3.5 inch drive after a bad seagate experience which luckily I recover the data from after a few months. For 2.5 inch drive I am in seagate as their the only one that offered the 5TB size.


The only drives i have had problems with or had die over the last few years was WD and Seagate has always worked without a problem but i have only bought Ironwolf Pro´s
The 18 TB Ironwolf Pro i ordered a few hours ago will be my 9th Ironwolf drive

Would never buy another Ultrastar its too slow and loud and the WD Black has that annoying lubrication thing where the drive heads move every few second
Cant say anything about the WD Gold since i never bought one of those but i had a ton of problems with the non Pro WD Red and one of those is the only dead drive i have had in the last 5 years

Cant say if either of us has good or bad luck with either but i know i would not buy WD or HGST again but maybe and thats a big maybe i would try theWD Gold
Anyway off topic


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## Count Shagula (Apr 20, 2021)

The price and supply of gpus is at the point where its easier and more profitable to dump 15 thousand on an asic instead. You can pick up a 3000watt 2600mh asic for 15-20k now. A few of those and your sitting on >150kusd a year for doing jack all.

https://www.cryptocompare.com/minin...sumption=6000&CostPerkWh=0.46&MiningPoolFee=1


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## R-T-B (Apr 20, 2021)

Thefumigator said:


> You won't believe this... but there really is a cryptocoin named shitcoin....


There's a lot worse than that.


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## tabascosauz (Apr 20, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Introducing WindCoin, the cryptocurrency that can be mined by your PWM fans! More fans, more RPM, more CFM, more dBA and more RGB = Profit!!!
> 
> Whoops, now those 140mm fans you were going to buy cost over $200 each and are out of stock!!



Finally! I can use 7000rpm 120x38mm thick Delta and Sunon spinners and my bleeding ears will at least have the consolation that all the racket is making me money   






						Delta "Mega Fast" 120mm x 38mm Fan - 252 CFM - Bare Lead (PFB1212UHE-F00) No RPM - FrozenCPU.com
					

Delta



					www.frozencpu.com


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## R-T-B (Apr 20, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Finally! I can use 7000rpm 120x38mm thick Delta and Sunon spinners and my bleeding ears will at least have the consolation that all the racket is making me money
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You described my garage in the height of my mining days.  90 Degrees in the winter, delta fans, and very very loud.

I don't miss it.


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## PooPipeBoy (Apr 20, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Finally! I can use 7000rpm 120x38mm thick Delta and Sunon spinners and my bleeding ears will at least have the consolation that all the racket is making me money
> 
> 
> 
> ...



7160rpm and 35.9mmH2O, good god! Those things must sound like they're about to explode


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## R-T-B (Apr 20, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> 7160rpm and 35.9mmH2O, good god! Those things must sound like they're about to explode


I had some 5500rpm variants and you aren't far off.


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## spectatorx (Apr 20, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> There's a lot worse than that.


My fav out of joke-coins is titcoin. Maybe i will buy some just for "lolz".
But in this titcoin joke one thing is impressive: its logo is amazing, simple yet very obvious what it portrays.


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## yotano211 (Apr 20, 2021)

HDs can already be mined with burst coin. I dont know if burst coin is still around but when I started getting into mining many years ago, burst coin was just starting out.



64K said:


> Hell, if miners could find a way to mine crypto from programmable coffee makers then there would be no coffee makers for sale anywhere except from scalpers charging 3 times the MSRP.


who needs coffee anyways. coffee should onky be used bt trucj drivers and people who haven't slept for over 24hrs.


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## bobbybluz (Apr 20, 2021)

"If you dig a hole deep enough, everyone will want to jump into it"  Firesign Theater


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## yotano211 (Apr 20, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> You described my garage in the height of my mining days.  90 Degrees in the winter, delta fans, and very very loud.
> 
> I don't miss it.


I had a 1 bedroom apartment maxed out with 13 mining machines in the last mining boom, 3 years ago now. I was maxing out all the breakers in that apartment. I had 2 in the bathroom with huge box fan. The apartment's thermostat maxed out at 99F in the spring and summer time. I dont miss that, I would work full time and take care of those machines, it was like another full time job. 
Everyday, something always would happen to1-3 machines, and about every 2 days I would need to install the OS again.


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## bobbybluz (Apr 20, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Finally! I can use 7000rpm 120x38mm thick Delta and Sunon spinners and my bleeding ears will at least have the consolation that all the racket is making me money
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just had a couple of those 252cfm Delta's running a couple of hours ago. They do get annoying after a while.


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## Valantar (Apr 20, 2021)

silentbogo said:


> Yes, it is possible, just like mining on a *TI-84 calculator*. The cake is a lie. You should get into habit of being skeptical of clickbaits.


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## silentbogo (Apr 20, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> 7160rpm and 35.9mmH2O, good god! Those things must sound like they're about to explode


LoL. Just yesterday I was testing my freshly-acquired 2U supermicro chassis. It has two 80mm hotswap Nidec UltraFlo 9500rpm fans, and those things are so powerful, they nearly blew my electric pot off the table (it was almost empty, but still... made out of metal and standing on a rubberized stand).


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## Valantar (Apr 20, 2021)

CheapMeat said:


> Sadly, this is what basically everyone does when the world cares about money above all else. There are many people who'd rather mine than live off minimum wage or go to work 40hrs a week with an hour or more drive and back. Basically everyone is trying to find a way to get out of basically slavery and find true freedom. And lots and lots of people have made hundreds of thousands to millions now since coins went from example $0.002 to $1, that's massive. The current crypto scene is at it's all time high. So everyone is chasing the next cheap one to pump and dump. That's how it works if you want to gain quickly instead of waiting 40+ years to retire and live on Social Security. I'm just going to assume the naysayers are well off right now and financially in a good place, so don't truly care. I'm not a fan of all our PC hardware costing more of course, heck I buy used parts because that's what I used to be able to afford and now even used is 2x/3x the price. I'll never get my dream builds now. But I totally understand what's going on and why.


Wow, that's a lot of delusion and twisting of the truth for one post. I mean, is it true that a certain amount of people have gotten modestly rich (i.e. have made a few thousand dollars or more) off crypto that weren't before? Sure. I would guesstimate something in the mid tens of thousands globally at best. That does literally nothing at all to change the global distribution of wealth, combat poverty, or fight for a fairer and more equitable society. (According to the World Bank, around 700 million people live in extreme poverty, defined as living on less than US$1.90/day. How many of those do you think can buy a crypto rig?) It wouldn't even make a dent in the US alone, where 34 million people live in poverty. In fact it does the opposite, by cementing mechanisms in which the already wealthy are given further avenues of making their money grow. Not to mention, of course, that a likely similar if not higher number of people lost tons and tons of money the last time crypto crashed.

You need to start from a position of relative privilege to get off the ground mining crypto at all. You need knowledge and access to relevant equipment, most of which is expensive, so you need access to either cash or loans. That already excludes the _vast_ majority of the global poor - but crucially also the vast majority of the poor in rich countries like the US - but also opens the door wide for the wealthy, for whom the cost of entry is essentially irrelevant. If you're used to trading stocks or commodities in the tens of thousands of dollars or more, setting up a couple of crypto rigs in a warehouse somewhere is a cheap gamble. Paying someone to set it up for you is also a negligable cost for the wealthy.

But ultimately, what you're arguing for here is just the virtuousness of selfishness in a predatory capitalist society. Which ... I mean, I get it, but it's counterproductive and only serves to maintain the status quo. Rather than take meaningful political action to make the society you're in work better (by, say, taxing the rich and through that ensuring living wages, universal healthcare, good working conditions, paid sick leave, vacation pay, livable pensions, etc. etc., i.e. resisting and fighting to change the current state of the system of government that has been shaped to dramatically benefit the wealthy over the past half century) you're arguing for a "everyone for themselves" ideology. Again: understandable given the circumstances, but also highly cynical and ultimately only serving to maintain a bad situation. There will always be more losers or people unable to take part in something like this than winners. The illusion that "anyone can win" is what keeps predatory capitalism going, as it lulls poor people into thinking _they_ can be the one to get rich, when the odds of that in reality are near zero. Class and social mobility in the US has near stagnated over the past decades while the wealth of the richest has exploded, and neoliberal economic policies (which, to be clear, are also propagated by so-called "conservatives") serve to ensure that the wealth of the rich is never threatened, but rather consolidated and made safer. For any real change to take place, _that_ needs to change, and saying "screw everyone else, I can get rich on crypto" is just a) a huge gamble, given the risk of a crash, and b) presenting selfishness as a virtue in lieu of fighting for meaningful change.

As for those of us critical of this being "well off right now and financially in a good place": sorry, but that's pretty myopic. Many of us are likely either living in societies where people are treated better than in the US, or know of the very real possibility of such a society. You're treating the current absolute shitshow that is working conditions in the US as a natural and unchangeable default ("live off minimum wage or go to work 40hrs a week with an hour or more drive and back" etc.), and you're falsely presenting the gamble of getting moderately rich off crypto as "true freedom". But within a system where money is the only determinant of success and the only real measure of power, no such thing as true freedom can ever exist. Everyone is a slave to money, whether it's the poor who don't have it or the rich who become obsessed by hoarding it through fear of losing it (as losing it would entail a total loss of security). Thankfully, all of this can relatively easily be moderated through political action. I don't know of any form of society where "true freedom" is possible (that leads us into some _really_ heavy philosophical questions), but _more_ freedom for _more_ people is very easily achievable through better taxation and redistribution of wealth, even within capitalist systems. Just look to the nordics - our wages aren't quite as high as in the US, but our standards of living are higher, we're healthier, safer, trust each other and our governments more (largely due to the societies being more just and thus ultimately more free), we live longer, have more free time, are happier, etc., etc. You're presenting giving in to a hostile system as a way out of that system. That's just self-delusion.


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## JeffF (Apr 20, 2021)

I swear the Hardware manufactures are the ones forcing/creating this crypto crap upon us. There is no other explanation for it. They are the ones profiting from it more than anyone.


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## las (Apr 20, 2021)

zlobby said:


> What's next? Crypto mined on PSU  or RAM?


PSUs 850w+ especially 1000w and up are already jacked up because miners needs these to run alot of gpus

RAM are expected to rise up to 20% very soon


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## spectatorx (Apr 20, 2021)

las said:


> PSUs 850w+ especially 1000w and up are already jacked up because miners needs these to run alot of gpus
> 
> RAM are expected to rise up to 20% very soon


RAM prices now will increase mainly because of lifecycle: ddr4 slowly comes to end as ddr5 should be launching to regular customers somewhere next year.


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## R0H1T (Apr 20, 2021)

spectatorx said:


> RAM prices now will increase mainly because of lifecycle: ddr4 slowly comes to end as ddr5 should be launching to regular customers somewhere next year.


DDR4 isn't going away anytime soon, until at least the MSDT platform moves to DDR5 only ~ which is probably 2023 at the earliest *IMO*. I hope & expect at least one (major) round of price cuts before DDR4 fades into obsolescence.


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## las (Apr 20, 2021)

spectatorx said:


> RAM prices now will increase mainly because of lifecycle: ddr4 slowly comes to end as ddr5 should be launching to regular customers somewhere next year.



DDR5 will be expensive in the beginning, with high clockspeeds *but terrible timings*.

Back when DDR4 came out, high-end DDR3 were still superior in alot of tasks especially gaming (which prefers low latency).

DDR4 is not going away anytime soon


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## R0H1T (Apr 20, 2021)

Wirko said:


> Hashi Hashimoto is now *head of civilisation control department*. Crypto has been used on several planets at a similar stage of development,* with great success every time.*


Nah that dubious title probably goes to the ethereal *Zuckerberg *&/or Tiktok owners


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## R-T-B (Apr 20, 2021)

bobbybluz said:


> I just had a couple of those 252cfm Delta's running a couple of hours ago. They do get annoying after a while.


My old mining ones no less lol.  You saved them from a leaky attic.  Hope you enjoyed.


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## silentbogo (Apr 20, 2021)

las said:


> PSUs 850w+ especially 1000w and up are already jacked up because miners needs these to run alot of gpus


In Ukraine they never really fell in price after the first boom. 
Fortunately, the majority of people don't need a 1kW PSU nowadays, even if you have a maxed-out gaming rig.
Heck, I've been getting by with 550W or lower PSU for the past 10 years or so(even on OCed Westmere rig). Got a spare 1kW unit as a payment not too long ago, but I think it'll do better elsewhere.
As for miners, there are much better alternatives than consumer-grade PSUs. Most of my friends with mining rigs got on a bandwagon of refurbished modded Emerson and HP enterprise PSUs. The last one I bought for my customer cost around $200. 2.4kW, already modded with 20-something 6+2pin cables made out of real 18AWG wiring w/ soldered connectors (enough to run his 6xP104-100 cards, hook up a PicoPSU for motherboard and have few spare connectors just in case). Not only is it much safer from electrical standpoint, but also saves those beastly PSUs from landfill.


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## JAB Creations (Apr 21, 2021)

Kill it with fire.



Valantar said:


> Yet another demonstration that crypto is nothing more than a race to invent ever new stuff for people to invest in gamble on. Utter f*****g waste in every single concievable way. Making the rich richer, screwing over the planet (production of SSDs also pollutes, after all, and e-waste is a major problem already), but of course this is "liberating" people from some undefinable "oppression". The ideological BS surrounding this is still staggering to me. It's just another way to maintain the status quo of predatory capitalism.



I was about to agree and like and then you had to blame capitalism. You need to seriously learn the difference between capitalism and cronyism.


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## Dr_Lizardo (Apr 21, 2021)

rainxh11 said:


> Blockchain, cryptocurrency, this technologies have proven to bring more harm than good over the past decade
> bitcoin, what was to be a revolutionary currency to replace the printed out of nothing paper money
> is now a commodity people gambling with, it is used as anything but being a currency, sucking up electricity and silicon resources like there's no tomorrow, crypto mining is being to the environment, far more than real mining, what an irony
> nobody will spend a currency to buy anything if that currency value keep doubling, tripling, halving in a mere of months
> ...



You really don't understand how it works. Of the seven things you said, seven of them are wrong. Crypto-mining isn't causing the silicon shortage. That's absurd, as is the notion that crypto-mining is worse for the environment than geo mining. Utterly laughable. 

I'm short on time so I can't reply to any more of your points right now, but they're wrong too. 

Cheers.


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## Valantar (Apr 21, 2021)

JAB Creations said:


> Kill it with fire.
> 
> 
> 
> I was about to agree and like and then you had to blame capitalism. You need to seriously learn the difference between capitalism and cronyism.


Cronyism is a built-in feature of unregulated capitalism.


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## Why_Me (Apr 21, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Cronyism is a built-in feature of unregulated capitalism.


There's cronyism in all economic systems.


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## Valantar (Apr 21, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> There's cronyism in all economic systems.


That's absolutely true. What makes capitalism stand out (somewhat) is that it actively encourages it, discourages regulatory mechanisms designed to fight it, and mainly sees it as positive (through creative redefinitions of "efficiency"). Of course there are other systems that do similar things, but none to the same degree.


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## Why_Me (Apr 21, 2021)

Valantar said:


> That's absolutely true. What makes capitalism stand out (somewhat) is that it actively encourages it, discourages regulatory mechanisms designed to fight it, and mainly sees it as positive (through creative redefinitions of "efficiency"). Of course there are other systems that do similar things, but none to the same degree.


Capitalism breeds innovation.


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## las (Apr 21, 2021)

silentbogo said:


> In Ukraine they never really fell in price after the first boom.
> Fortunately, the majority of people don't need a 1kW PSU nowadays, even if you have a maxed-out gaming rig.
> Heck, I've been getting by with 550W or lower PSU for the past 10 years or so(even on OCed Westmere rig). Got a spare 1kW unit as a payment not too long ago, but I think it'll do better elsewhere.
> As for miners, there are much better alternatives than consumer-grade PSUs. Most of my friends with mining rigs got on a bandwagon of refurbished modded Emerson and HP enterprise PSUs. The last one I bought for my customer cost around $200. 2.4kW, already modded with 20-something 6+2pin cables made out of real 18AWG wiring w/ soldered connectors (enough to run his 6xP104-100 cards, hook up a PicoPSU for motherboard and have few spare connectors just in case). Not only is it much safer from electrical standpoint, but also saves those beastly PSUs from landfill.



Yes, I'm only using 1kW because I got it for free, 750-850 would have bene more than fine. Without OC at all, even 650 would probably be enough

Alot overestimate their PSU needs

A friend of mine once bought a 1500 watt PSU for a single CPU/GPU system , barely used 450 watts during load


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## Valantar (Apr 21, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Capitalism breeds innovation.


Got any non-anecdotal evidence to base that statement on? Crucially, anything with an actually valid comparison to demonstrate that it breeds significantly more innovation than any other system? Without that, such a statement is nothing but empty ideological rhetoric.


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## micropage7 (Apr 21, 2021)

so, everything about hardware will be robbed by miner. so average person will run pc from 2018 without having a chance to upgrade


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## Why_Me (Apr 21, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Got any non-anecdotal evidence to base that statement on? Crucially, anything with an actually valid comparison to demonstrate that it breeds significantly more innovation than any other system? Without that, such a statement is nothing but empty ideological rhetoric.


Your using the _internet_. Innovation right there.


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## Valantar (Apr 21, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Your using the _internet_. Innovation right there.


And? The internet was mainly developed by publicly funded researchers within academia and defense, neither of which are fundamentally capitalist organizations (even if both have moved significantly in that direction in later decades). Publicly funded research and development might involve capitalist systems and mechanism, but being publicly funded those mechanisms are not fundamental to the process. But again: for your statement to have any kind of value, it must be that capitalism breeds _more_ innovation than alternative systems. Examples of innovation within capitalism aren't an argument towards that whatsoever, as there's no comparison involved. Besides, given that there haven't existed any significant non-capitalist systems in the modern era (it would be quite difficult to argue that the thoroughly corrupt economic system in the Soviet union wasn't also capitalist in many ways, though of course not entirely, and not in name).


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## Silver' (Apr 23, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Here's a suggestion for truly environmentally friendly crypto: make the blockchain analogue, have the proof of stake be that someone comes over to your house to check that you are still physically in posession of the thing in question. Have them write it down in a publicly available ledger. After all the actual """"""work"""""" done in crypto mining _purely_ serves to demonstrate that "hey, I own X amount of product Y, plz reward me accordingly". If they just skipped the entire part where this equipment needs to be turned on doing meaningless busywork we'd skip a major portion of the environmental damage caused. And we wouldn't have a bunch of holes in the ground either



*possession.
Banks have massive datacenters consuming huge amounts of power, are you on finance site ranting?
What do you plan to power that 'publicly available ledger' with?  It will need to be electronic and verifiable globally.  Maybe an energy efficient blockchain like Chia is a good choice for that job.
'someone comes over to your house'.  What, walks there?  Or floats there on a magical cloud that has no impact on the environment?​


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## Valantar (Apr 23, 2021)

Silver' said:


> *possession.
> Banks have massive datacenters consuming huge amounts of power, are you on finance site ranting?
> What do you plan to power that 'publicly available ledger' with?  It will need to be electronic and verifiable globally.  Maybe an energy efficient blockchain like Chia is a good choice for that job.
> 'someone comes over to your house'.  What, walks there?  Or floats there on a magical cloud that has no impact on the environment?​


Damn, it's doubly impressive that you a) are taking a joke post this seriously, and b) still manage to be this wrong.

Banks have datacenters that do actually useful things, by processing transactions allowing people to, oh, I don't know, buy food and pay rent and stuff like that. Crypto also consumes power for transactions btw. This is utterly negligible compared to the power cost of mining though, to which there is no equivalent outside of crypto.

A publicly available ledger could be hosted on pretty much any hardware. Or in the case of my joke, on paper, in an actual ledger. The power cost would, again, be negligible, or zero in the case of paper. Again: it's the mining that consumes the power. 

As for transport, they could drive cars for pretty significant distances without it coming close to the environmental impact of crypto mining. I don't think you quite grasp the scale of electricity consumption involved.


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## CheapMeat (Apr 23, 2021)

I'm not going to bother to care what a Norwegian has to say about "relative privilege" in terms of finding some kind of economic mobility through crypto. Yawn.  Your post is the real pompous self-delusion. Every Northern European I interact with is so full up their rears when talking about money and society. It's cut and paste personalities. Go keep lying to yourself about how much generally poor people have found some form of economic freedom through crypto.  You can shove your fingers in your ear and go LALALALA all day while spewing generic anti-capitalism rhetoric while doing absolutely NOTHING of value to make anyone's lives truly better except drowning them in shame. I'm NOT a crypto miner and I 100% get it and why people are trying anything possible. But whatever.


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## Valantar (Apr 24, 2021)

CheapMeat said:


> I'm not going to bother to care what a Norwegian has to say about "relative privilege" in terms of finding some kind of economic mobility through crypto. Yawn.  Your post is the real pompous self-delusion. Every Northern European I interact with is so full up their rears when talking about money and society. It's cut and paste personalities. Go keep lying to yourself about how much generally poor people have found some form of economic freedom through crypto.  You can shove your fingers in your ear and go LALALALA all day while spewing generic anti-capitalism rhetoric while doing absolutely NOTHING of value to make anyone's lives truly better except drowning them in shame. I'm NOT a crypto miner and I 100% get it and why people are trying anything possible. But whatever.


Man, it's always interesting to see when the people disagreeing with you resort to these kinds of screeds of ad hominems and baseless generalizations. How exactly do you know what I might or might not do to make anyone's life better? And who am I shaming, precisely? I mean, you've got me genuinely curious here. But besides that, is your stance really _that_ hard to make sensible, rational arguments for? Or do you just enjoy making yourself look wildly irrational and defensive? I mean, at least you do try to counter something I said (the whole "keep lying to yourself about ..." thing), but do you actually have any data, evidence, anything at all non-anecdotal suggesting that crypto is making a meaningful difference in bettering the lives of poor people? That would be the new claim in need of evidence here, after all. New things for rich people to gamble on tend to maintain or reinforce the status quo (which, for reference, is massive and increasing wealth inequality, and stagnant or dropping wages and purchasing power for all but the wealthy, at least in most Western countries), while you're supporting claims that it does the opposite. That requires some sort of supporting evidence. So far I've seen nothing of the sort.


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## 64K (Apr 24, 2021)

I was just reading an article about the Commodore 64 being modded to mine crypto. It does a really poor job of it.


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## Kaya (Apr 24, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Yet another demonstration that crypto is nothing more than a race to invent ever new stuff for people to invest in gamble on. Utter f*****g waste in every single concievable way. Making the rich richer, screwing over the planet (production of SSDs also pollutes, after all, and e-waste is a major problem already), but of course this is "liberating" people from some undefinable "oppression". The ideological BS surrounding this is still staggering to me. It's just another way to maintain the status quo of predatory capitalism.


What are you talking about? A race to invent newer stuff is never a negative, it's how the world turns. Take the worst possible example of the world wars, no matter how bad they were technology rapidly advanced. All of these hard drives are already being produced, mining worldwide uses less power than our current banking and debit machine infrastructure. You're just a liar who masks advancement with false claims. "Don't invest in electric cars, those batteries are bad for the environment!" even though batteries are better than fossil fuels. Exactly what you sound like.


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## Valantar (Apr 25, 2021)

Kaya said:


> What are you talking about? A race to invent newer stuff is never a negative, it's how the world turns. Take the worst possible example of the world wars, no matter how bad they were technology rapidly advanced. All of these hard drives are already being produced, mining worldwide uses less power than our current banking and debit machine infrastructure. You're just a liar who masks advancement with false claims. "Don't invest in electric cars, those batteries are bad for the environment!" even though batteries are better than fossil fuels. Exactly what you sound like.


Wow, that's an oddly willfully and explicitly naïve stance.
- First off: yes, technology advanced during both WWI and WWII. That is mainly due to governments using wars as reasoning to spend money on product development. What says they couldn't have achieved the same - or likely even more, given the reduced need for said technologies to be useful for killing - with just spending the same _without_ the war? That warfare has historically been widely accepted as carte blanche on government spending is hardly an argument for it being beneficial, and twisting it to be so is some seriously flawed logic. 
- Second: If those hard drives are being produced, it's because _they have a use_. Companies and people are buying them already. It's not like makers and distributors are stockpiling HDDs for the future, after all. If mining suddenly arrives with a massive demand for HDDs, what happens to those other use cases? They start experiencing shortages. Most HDD makers don't have ~50% free capacity, so it's quite doubtful that they'll be able to avoid shortages.
- As for mining worldwide consuming less power than our current banking and debit machine(?) infrastructure: how about no? Judging by your wording I'm assuming you're basing your numbers on this 2018 blog post or something similar, which among other glaring issues assumes that _every ATM in the world has two air conditioners and lighting_. Which is downright absurd - most ATMs are embedded into a wall somewhere, and have neither. It also assumes a/c in all bank branches, which again, is just nowhere near accurate. It also doesn't account for electric heating in colder climates, etc. So it's methodology is fundamentally flawed. (There are other articles, like this one, that have slightly different numbers but are still fundamentally flawed.) According to the University of Cambridge, the current Bitcoin network consumes ~122TWH/year (~0.5-0.6% of global electricity consumption). Ethereum is currently estimated at ~39TWH/year. And then there's all the various altcoins out there. This whole comparison of course entirely neglects the fact that global banking serves literal billions of people every day. Crypto comes nowhere close. But more crucially, crypto _wastes_ most of its energy. Should banking become more efficient? Absolutely, yes. Does that make it look bad compared to crypto? Of course not. The vast majority of power consumed by crypto is for mining, i.e. spending computational power to generate a unique signifier of some sort. Is that valuable? Proponents would say yes, seemingly through some sort of philosophical idea of the inherent value of creating something unique and unreproducible. I would say _hell no_, because _the thing that is created is inherently useless_. It has _zero_ use beyond being something to gamble on. It provides no tangible use to any human being that couldn't just be served just as well by something that already exists. Does it represent a better chance of ROI for your gamble than, say, a lottery ticket or stocks? Sure. But it also wastes heaps of energy while doing so. Energy that a) wouldn't need to be generated at all if not for mining, or b) that could be spent doing something with actual tangible benefits, like producing useful goods or providing useful services. The inherent - and intended! - difficulty of generating unique tokens is what makes crypto inherently and unchangeably wasteful. No comparison to any other industry or service will change that.


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## cyberloner (Apr 29, 2021)

keep porn or plot? :/


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