# Sapphire Radeon HD 7950 Mac Edition Pictured



## btarunr (Mar 7, 2013)

Sapphire unveiled the Radeon HD 7950 Mac Edition graphics card for Apple Mac Pro workstations. Featuring lateral-flow cooling assembly akin to AMD's reference design, and a glossy, curvy white cooler shroud, the card features a custom design, pitch-black PCB with the firmware required to get the card running on a Mac Pro. 

The card features older Radeon HD 7950 ASIC, which lacks PowerTune with Boost; and features clock speeds of 800 MHz core, 5.00 GHz memory. It packs 3 GB of memory across a 384-bit GDDR5 interface. It draws power from two 6-pin PCIe connectors. Display outputs include a dual-link DVI, an HDMI, and two mini-DisplayPorts. The card is expected to be priced in the range of €400 and €500, a hefty premium over the roughly €250 common HD 7950 cards charge today.



 

 

 



*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## Beertintedgoggles (Mar 7, 2013)

So I've always wondered, do the vid card manufacturers have to license the firmware code required to make these cards compatible with the Mac OS?  This isn't even a FirePro version of the card which would then make a little sense for the mark up in price.  Or is it simply an example of supply and demand.... go ahead and try to get a Mac compatible card from somewhere / someone else (I know you used to be able to flash "normal" vid cards to work with Macs, not sure if it's still possible).


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## EzioAs (Mar 7, 2013)

So, what makes it significantly more expensive? Firmware? Driver? Support? Reliability? I'd really like to know


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## las (Mar 7, 2013)

EzioAs said:


> So, what makes it significantly more expensive? Firmware? Driver? Support? Reliability? I'd really like to know



Demand


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## animal007uk (Mar 7, 2013)

It probs cost more because its for a mac and i bet that is the only reason cause anything you buy for apple products is a rip off.

I do know one thing though, They need to make this into a 7970ghz pc edition so i can buy one to match my nzxt case.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 7, 2013)

The cost of this thing will be INSANE. Mac GPU's have always carried a 30%+ premium over their PC counterparts.


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## Crap Daddy (Mar 7, 2013)

Imagine the cost of a GTX Titan for Mac.


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## animal007uk (Mar 7, 2013)

Crap Daddy said:


> Imagine the cost of a GTX Titan for Mac.



£1500 minimum? lol


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## Kaynar (Mar 7, 2013)

animal007uk said:


> It probs cost more because its for a mac and i bet that is the only reason cause anything you buy for apple products is a rip off.
> 
> I do know one thing though, They need to make this into a 7970ghz pc edition so i can buy one to match my nzxt case.



If the card you want also has the Mac logo, its gonna cost more than GTX Titan lol.

BTW I think Galaxy makes a full white GTX680 card (white cooler and even white PCB).


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## animal007uk (Mar 7, 2013)

Kaynar said:


> If the card you want also has the Mac logo, its gonna cost more than GTX Titan lol.
> 
> BTW I think Galaxy makes a full white GTX680 card (white cooler and even white PCB).



No the one i would want would be a pc version in the same color but a 7970Ghz edition


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## dj-electric (Mar 7, 2013)

I want one!!!


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## patrico (Mar 7, 2013)

high prices but looks nices


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## lobsterrock (Mar 7, 2013)

EzioAs said:


> So, what makes it significantly more expensive? Firmware? Driver? Support? Reliability? I'd really like to know



The fact that it's for apple products, obviously


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## EzioAs (Mar 7, 2013)

It seems like most people said the high price is because it's for Mac. 

And I'd thought they'd be some other factors beside it.


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## Animalpak (Mar 7, 2013)

EzioAs said:


> So, what makes it significantly more expensive? Firmware? Driver? Support? Reliability? I'd really like to know



off course the Mac label name... Like all the rest capitalist shit by apple




Crap Daddy said:


> Imagine the cost of a GTX Titan for Mac.





much more 2000$


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## PatoRodrigues (Mar 7, 2013)

Let me guess... They're introducing this just to let the world know Apple's next step is to get the current formats of a GPU as their intellectual property too?  

(j/k... just a bad idea. :shadedshu)


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## Wrigleyvillain (Mar 7, 2013)

Hmm yeah I am not completely clear on the exact nature of the "firmware differences" but I can tell that since they went Intel you *can* take a "Mac GPU" and use it in a PC--but not the other way around (which makes me a little suspicious that this is another Apple-imposed 'limitation'; I don't see why you can't use a 'regular' video card in a Mac as well...). 

I borrowed an 8800GT from a Mac at work back in the day to try out the NV drivers with a few titles and later some other low end card for use in my server box until my 5450 arrived (6 watts and passive woo).

So my experience tells me that this would work in a PC. Not the only white card on the market but I can see some PC builds incorporating this nice-looking product despite the premium. Also using a "Mac card" is one more thing to help you stand out from the build log crowd.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 7, 2013)

Wrigleyvillain said:


> Hmm yeah I am not completely clear on the exact nature of the "firmware differences" but I can tell that since they went Intel you *can* take a "Mac GPU" and use it in a PC--but not the other way around (which makes me a little suspicious that this is another Apple-imposed 'limitation'; I don't see why you can't use a 'regular' video card in a Mac as well...).
> 
> I borrowed an 8800GT from a Mac at work back in the day to try out the NV drivers with a few titles and later some other low end card for use in my server box until my 5450 arrived (6 watts and passive woo).
> 
> So my experience tells me that this would work in a PC. Not the only white card on the market but I can see some PC builds incorporating this nice-looking product despite the premium.



Back in the old days I would buy a PC card that had a Mac equivalent and flash the bios to the Mac version and save a few 100 bucks. This was late OS9 early OSX era. I wonder if you still can?


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## tokyoduong (Mar 7, 2013)

EzioAs said:


> So, what makes it significantly more expensive? Firmware? Driver? Support? Reliability? I'd really like to know



That's cover is not made out of plastic, it's actually ivory.



TheMailMan78 said:


> Back in the old days I would buy a PC card that had a Mac equivalent and flash the bios to the Mac version and save a few 100 bucks. I wonder if you still can?


I don't see why not. Macs are even more PC like today than they had ever been before.

Who games on Macs anyways?


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 7, 2013)

tokyoduong said:


> That's cover is not made out of plastic, it's actually ivory.
> 
> 
> I don't see why not. Macs are even more PC like today than they had ever been before.
> ...



Back then Apples were better for Photoshop and such. SO it was graphic artists who wanted to get more FPS in Quake and Unreal basically


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## Wrigleyvillain (Mar 7, 2013)

tokyoduong said:


> Who games on Macs anyways?



No one buys a Mac to game primarily still but it's a lot more possible and worthwhile than ever before both due to the Intel hardware and companies like Valve.

And as for flashing again I am not even sure what to flash exactly as I am still not convinced there is an actual low-level difference such as firmware. Somehow PC cards don't work out of the box but as I said I don't understand how/why exactly. Before Intel Macs there was a definite firmware/bios difference and neither would work on the other platform.


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## Sasqui (Mar 7, 2013)

EzioAs said:


> So, what makes it significantly more expensive? Firmware? Driver? Support? Reliability? I'd really like to know



The white paint, lol.

Seriously, demand (economy of scale), driver re-writes, firmware and all the associated certifcations and compatibility testing.  

Pretty much the same reason workstation cards are so expensive.

Then you have the Mac O'sphere, where there are few options and people willing to pay for those few options.


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## Wrigleyvillain (Mar 7, 2013)

Yeah Sasqui pretty much hit it on the head.


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## Delta6326 (Mar 7, 2013)

Is it just me or is AMD/Vendors getting lots of contracts with other companies...?

I do like the White look, would be nice in a all white build.


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## GSquadron (Mar 7, 2013)

It is obvious, the card costs this much because there are less produced than PC counterparts.


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## Pickles Von Brine (Mar 7, 2013)

Beertintedgoggles said:


> So I've always wondered, do the vid card manufacturers have to license the firmware code required to make these cards compatible with the Mac OS?  This isn't even a FirePro version of the card which would then make a little sense for the mark up in price.  Or is it simply an example of supply and demand.... go ahead and try to get a Mac compatible card from somewhere / someone else (I know you used to be able to flash "normal" vid cards to work with Macs, not sure if it's still possible).



The firmware itself is licensed and controlled under Apple, thus there is a premium to have access to this. Plus, Apple demands extensive testing in order to ensure maximum stability for the components that go into their machines. You can think of it how Enterprise class drives are so much more expensive than normal drives because of the algorithms written into the firmware for vibration. These cards have the specially modified with firmware that is compliant with Apple's standards. Because of this, this carries a high premium. Plus with the fact is the GPU itself a custom design on top of it. 



EzioAs said:


> So, what makes it significantly more expensive? Firmware? Driver? Support? Reliability? I'd really like to know



See above.



las said:


> Demand


That is also another reason. 


animal007uk said:


> It probs cost more because its for a mac and i bet that is the only reason cause anything you buy for apple products is a rip off.
> 
> I do know one thing though, They need to make this into a 7970ghz pc edition so i can buy one to match my nzxt case.


That is wrong. Please see above. Apple products are not a rip off. They are more expensive, but they are also rather reliable. Plus the fact that they use higher grade materials in their manufacturing (compared to PCs except gaming hardware) comes at a premium. 

A prime example of this areMacbook pros. All  of them have milled aluminium top cases. This is not cheap to make... The same for the iMacs. Their shell is also milled aluminium. All their logic boards use solid caps and various other components. They also have custom firmware that run on top and also a piece of hardware in them called the SMC. The SMC is the system management controller. This controls power and various other aspects of the machine including fan speed. PCs don't have this.


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## Casecutter (Mar 7, 2013)

Will a Apple Mac Pro workstation have the 500W + PSU with two 6-pin PCIe connectors?


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## tokyoduong (Mar 7, 2013)

Wrigleyvillain said:


> No one buys a Mac to game primarily still but it's a lot more possible and worthwhile than ever before both due to the Intel hardware and companies like Valve.
> 
> And as for flashing again I am not even sure what to flash exactly as I am still not convinced there is an actual low-level difference such as firmware. Somehow PC cards don't work out of the box but as I said I don't understand how/why exactly. Before Intel Macs there was a definite firmware/bios difference and neither would work on the other platform.



It works the same now AFAIK. Unless they made it even harder like what Microsoft did with their Xbox dvd drive.



OmegaAI said:


> That is also another reason.


I agree with everything you say except this. Demand is actually not why the price is too high. If you want to get technical then most of the cost comes from cost-push --> increased price of final product. The other reason for high would probably be called superior product pricing. The last part is the lack of competition.

cost-push - apple probably charges high royalty or whatever licensing fees.
superior product - in economic terms, it is based largely on what the consumer view as premium products
competition - do i need to even explain?

This price is largely due to a economist or statistician somewhere with their charts and equilibrium. Since demand is small but constant, they can adjust the price by limiting supply and use their brand premium. As there is very little cost incurred by apple, they would be smart to keep the price up as it keeps their image up. Keep the supply down so you don't saturate the market and cause a surplus. The less apple products that end up at a discount store like TJMaxx, the better the brand image.


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## Pickles Von Brine (Mar 7, 2013)

Casecutter said:


> Will a Apple Mac Pro workstation have the 500W + PSU with two 6-pin PCIe connectors?



Considering the fact that the Mac Pro Early 2008 model (2 Core 2 Quads) had a single 980W continuous PSU made by either AcBel or Delta, the 2013 model will likely have a 1000-1200W PSU. The PSUs they put into these things are custom designed server grade units. 



tokyoduong said:


> It works the same now AFAIK. Unless they made it even harder like what Microsoft did with their Xbox dvd drive.
> 
> 
> I agree with everything you say except this. Demand is actually not why the price is too high. If you want to get technical then most of the cost comes from cost-push --> increased price of final product. The other reason for high would probably be called superior product pricing. The last part is the lack of competition.
> ...



Touche


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## tokyoduong (Mar 7, 2013)

Casecutter said:


> Will a Apple Mac Pro workstation have the 500W + PSU with two 6-pin PCIe connectors?



You should already know that apple wouldn't allow their name to be printed on it unless they did testing to make sure it works and is compatible with their current configurations. Apple strategy has always been a simple limited # of prebuilt configurations. That way, they can charge more, have less compatibility problems, optimized software, less manufacturing and supply logistics, etc...you know the works.


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## buildzoid (Mar 7, 2013)

OmegaAI said:


> Plus, Apple demands extensive testing in order to ensure maximum stability for the components that go into their machines.


They test to make sure it fails a month after the warranty ends. I know from experience as I'm in a school where we have to use macs. The entire middle school gets loaned a free mac I was in the group that was the first to get into this program. 
1st year all good unless your a moron the computer ran fast and stable.
2nd year by the end of the year there were a bunch of HDD crashes and a computers froze running firefox + word almost every class we used them. The batteries were at 0-20% at the end of the day.
3rd year even more HDD crashes speed was abysmal running the same software as before many batteries were dry by the end of 3rd period. At the end of the year the school got rid of them and bought a new batch.
These computers were cleand and had their OS+software reinstalled at the end of each year.
In the highschool we have to use them and here's a list of common problems:
wobbly screens, dry batteries, serious graphical artecafts in some games, RAM hogging (I had 6.4GB of used ram even when I had no apps open),MS Word causes lag, HDD crashes, overheating when running internet (seriously I use a fan controller and at 91% speed I had 60C typing this while listening to music from Youtube). BTW this is the 2nd year that high schoolers need to use mac laptops next years gonna be a practical demonstration of why not to buy a mac


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## fritoking (Mar 7, 2013)

EzioAs said:


> So, what makes it significantly more expensive? Firmware? Driver? Support? Reliability? I'd really like to know



apple demanded a per card royalty just for the privilege of allowing the cards to be used in their systems.


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## Wrigleyvillain (Mar 7, 2013)

buildzoid said:


> BTW this is the 2nd year that high schoolers need to use mac laptops next years gonna be a practical demonstration of why not to buy a mac



Yeah well I have been an IT tech supporting primarily Macs at various professional firms since you were in diapers and can tell you, in general, Macs are very well built. I still have ten-year-old Cinema Displays humming along and rarely have to get hardware repairs on *any* models, even hard drives (which have nothing to do with Apple at all). And these machines are under long heavy loads in Adobe apps etc working with multi-gigabyte files.

That said, I don't see a ton of PC hardware repairs either because these people are mature adults, first and foremost. All computers in school lab environments get thrashed, especially middle and high school. Even worse when they can take them home.


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## Pickles Von Brine (Mar 8, 2013)

buildzoid said:


> They test to make sure it fails a month after the warranty ends. I know from experience as I'm in a school where we have to use macs. The entire middle school gets loaned a free mac I was in the group that was the first to get into this program.
> 1st year all good unless your a moron the computer ran fast and stable.
> 2nd year by the end of the year there were a bunch of HDD crashes and a computers froze running firefox + word almost every class we used them. The batteries were at 0-20% at the end of the day.
> 3rd year even more HDD crashes speed was abysmal running the same software as before many batteries were dry by the end of 3rd period. At the end of the year the school got rid of them and bought a new batch.
> ...




*2nd year by the end of the year there were a bunch of HDD crashes and a computers froze running firefox + word almost every class we used them. The batteries were at 0-20% at the end of the day.* 
These are laptops correct? Having hard drive issues is common in laptops as they are mechanical by nature. Apple uses Hitatchi, WD and seagate for their drives. All of them just have an apple logo and serial number on them. How old are these machines to begin with? Hard drives usually fail within 2-3 years.

How do I know this? Because I repair macs for a living. Hard drive failures are the most common repair. Actually, they are the most common repair out of any repair I do on a macs. The PC tech I work with? Viruses, then hard drive failures are his most common repairs. 

*3rd year even more HDD crashes speed was abysmal running the same software as before many batteries were dry by the end of 3rd period. At the end of the year the school got rid of them and bought a new batch.*
This is because again, these machines are in the hands of students, thrown onto desks (not literally), put into backpacks, moved around a lot. After going through this, it is not surprising to see hard drives fail. Hell, any machine would have a hard drive fail in conditions like that. 

*wobbly screens*
I take it these are unibodies? The hindges are screwed onto the clamshell and top case. The screws work themselves loose from opening and closing of the clamshell over time. Screws just need to be tightend. 
*Dry Batteries*
Most batteries have a life cycle of 1000 charges. That is easy to do in a year or 2. 

*RAM hogging*
Just because the RAM is being used doesn't mean that it is being used if that makes any sense. OSX will use as much RAM as it sees fit to run itself and programs properly and will dynamically unload RAM as needed. It also likes to do a lot of caching so programs that were previously used load quicker. Windows does the same thing. I have 16GB in my sytem and right now have 6.2GB used. That is just sitting here with Chrome open. 
* MS Word causes lag, HDD crashes, *
This is probably because of the hard drive. High schoolers (not you, but those who used your machine before you) are rough on machines and beat the hell out of them. Most kids are rather dumb when it comes to their machines because they are NOT theirs. If something isn't yours, do you think you treat it with the same respect as something that is? Nope. 

*overheating when running internet (seriously I use a fan controller and at 91% speed I had 60C typing this while listening to music from Youtube).*
Macs do tend to run hotter than PCs because of their design, but this is not really an issue. They are programed to run hotter to produce less sound. Plus, it is likely the TIM needs to be reapplied and heat sinks cleared of debris. This is normal for machines that are used a lot like what you are using (I service a lot of school computers). 60C isn't overheating. The processors are designed to run up to 100C. 60C is normal for a laptop. Especailly the Core 2 Duo machines you are likely running. And youtube? It is surprisingly CPU intensive and GPU intensive (2d processing). That is why I use it for testing (20 youtube windows up at a time and let them go ). 

* BTW this is the 2nd year that high schoolers need to use mac laptops next years gonna be a practical demonstration of why not to buy a mac*
The fact that these macs are going through hell of you kids and still working is a testament to their durability. 

I work as an ACMT (Apple Certified Macintosh Technician) for a local AASP (Apple Authorized Repair Center). Each month I get about 400-500 machines in (I am the primary mac tech and do about 70% of the repairs myself). Most of the time what I am fixing is stupid software crap or someone has a failed hard drive in a machine that is going on 4 years old.


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## Pickles Von Brine (Mar 8, 2013)

Wrigleyvillain said:


> Yeah well I have been an IT tech supporting primarily Macs at various professional firms since you were in diapers and can tell you, in general, Macs are very well built. I still have ten-year-old Cinema Displays humming along and rarely have to get hardware repairs on *any* models, even hard drives (which have nothing to do with Apple at all). And these machines are under long heavy loads in Adobe apps etc working with multi-gigabyte files.
> 
> That said, I don't see a ton of PC hardware repairs either because these people are mature adults, first and foremost. All computers in school lab environments get thrashed, especially middle and high school. Even worse when they can take them home.



Thank you. 

BTW, I have a macbook pro early 2008 17 still going strong. The only thing I worry about is the nvidia issue the logic board on these guys have. I know I will have to replace the logic board at some point. But until then, she is still kicking butt.


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Mar 8, 2013)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I wonder if you still can?



Last time I saw an attempt it didn't work. Something about them blocking it on the hardware side.


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## Lionheart (Mar 8, 2013)

Can Mac's play games now


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## tacosRcool (Mar 8, 2013)

Complete rip off. Well its a good thing that most people with macs have very very deep pockets


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## T4C Fantasy (Mar 8, 2013)

OmegaAI said:


> Considering the fact that the Mac Pro Early 2008 model (2 Core 2 Quads) had a single 980W continuous PSU made by either AcBel or Delta, the 2013 model will likely have a 1000-1200W PSU. The PSUs they put into these things are custom designed server grade units.
> 
> 
> 
> Touche



the cases may be higher grade but the mobos are not.. no mac pro mobo can stand to a top end gaming mobo which may not have specifically SMC but functions that do the exact same thing


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## symmetrical (Mar 8, 2013)

EzioAs said:


> So, what makes it significantly more expensive? Firmware? Driver? Support? Reliability? I'd really like to know



Nothing, why create a product for Apple/Mac fans if it isn't overpriced?


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## [H]@RD5TUFF (Mar 8, 2013)

Good looking card IMO.


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## Pickles Von Brine (Mar 8, 2013)

T4C Fantasy said:


> the cases may be higher grade but the mobos are not.. no mac pro mobo can stand to a top end gaming mobo which may not have specifically SMC but functions that do the exact same thing



Do you have proof of this? Also you are comparing apples to oranges. The motherboards that apple uses serve a different purpose and are designed for long term reliability and stability. The logic boards in mac pros are closer, if not on par with server grade, which are a set of completely different requirements than a gaming board. An SMC is used because it offers more granular control over various aspects of power and noise.




symmetrical said:


> Nothing, why create a product for Apple/Mac fans if it isn't overpriced?



It is not created for apple fans. This product is made to comply with standards that apple holds for their products. That is what it is custom (compared to a normal card). What makes this card different is laid out in the article. It has firmware written specifically for Apple and has designed without powertune or boost and a tweaked PCB design. What makes this more expensive is the firmware.

Another comparison that can be made here is what makes an enterprise class drive more expensive? They are the EXACT same drives (7200RPM ones) as their consumer counter parts. You know what makes them so much more expensive? Their firmware. It has the obvious things like no spindown and error correction, but there is one other thing that makes them cost more. The algorithms used to compensate for vibration. Consumer drives don't have this.

For these cards, they may be exactly the same as their counterparts physically. For this case, they have powertune and boost turned off (that is easy to do). But writing firmware for something specific is different. The firmware has to comply with something that OSX uses called DSMOS (Don't Steal My Mac OS), which is the authorization system used to check the hardware during boot to make sure it complies with apple.


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## D4S4 (Mar 8, 2013)

OmegaAI said:


> Also you are comparing apples to oranges.


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## Pickles Von Brine (Mar 8, 2013)

T4C Fantasy said:


> the cases may be higher grade but the mobos are not.. no mac pro mobo can stand to a top end gaming mobo which may not have specifically SMC but functions that do the exact same thing





symmetrical said:


> Nothing, why create a product for Apple/Mac fans if it isn't overpriced?





D4S4 said:


>


Pun was not intended.


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## cadaveca (Mar 8, 2013)

Nice news. All AMD needs now is a chip in a phone, and they'll be in every segment.


Consoles, PCs, Macs, Servers, tablets, and phones.

Price doesn't matter. What matters here is that Apple also has AMD.


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## t77snapshot (Mar 8, 2013)

EzioAs said:


> So, what makes it significantly more expensive? Firmware? Driver? Support? Reliability? I'd really like to know





las said:


> Demand



Exactly, and also Mac's image. 

Wrap up old generation hardware in a pretty _white_ bow and sell it 25% above the msrp and they with follow..


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## Frick (Mar 8, 2013)

OmegaAI said:


> snip



You are fighting an uphill battle on this forum my friend. It is calmer now though, not too long ago this thread would have degenerated into a full on flame war by now. As soon as anything even slightly related to Apple was mentioned it always did.


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## Initialised (Mar 8, 2013)

Does anyone else see a portal where the fan is?


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## SaiZo (Mar 8, 2013)

Nice card. I have nothing against Mac's, it's a computer with a different OS in my eyes.


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## fwix (Mar 8, 2013)

OmegaAI said:


> Do you have proof of this? Also you are comparing apples to oranges. The motherboards that apple uses serve a different purpose and are designed for long term reliability and stability. The logic boards in mac pros are closer, if not on par with server grade, which are a set of completely different requirements than a gaming board. An SMC is used because it offers more granular control over various aspects of power and noise.
> .



sorry u know nothing about pc gamers components! , yep good motherboard (120$-180$ range) have more than what u think ( PWM fans temp protection  solid capac strong VRM better look   better compatibility more PCIE extension dual bios solid PCB etc ... )  , plus the biggest thing that u can't have with apple is overclocking .... so don't tell me apple have somethings special than any pc gamer can have (perhaps better firmware "security" but it's 99% useless to gamers ) cause You're wrong in this , and to be honest a pc gamer ll never use any bull shit Apple product for gaming cause it's simply  illogic lol


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## Wrigleyvillain (Mar 8, 2013)

SaiZo said:


> Nice card. I have nothing against Mac's, it's a computer with a different OS in my eyes.



Well gee someone with common sense!

Some of the "problems" people have with Apple itself are much more legitimate, however they rarely do things most other companies don't (or wouldn't in the same shoes). The worker suicides thing is a classic example. People screamed "Apple is evil!" when it was at Foxconn who makes parts for damn near everyone, for Christ's sake.


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## virusek (Mar 8, 2013)

I almost sure that normal PC version of this card can be modded using some custom EFI flash to be compatible with Macs, like older (HD6xxx) ones... Also "premium components" in Apple products is only a company propaganda, nothing more... Amazing !


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## Tarkhein (Mar 8, 2013)

fwix said:


> sorry u know nothing about pc gamers components! , yep good motherboard (120$-180$ range) have more than what u think ( PWM fans temp protection  solid capac strong VRM better look   better compatibility more PCIE extension dual bios solid PCB etc ... )  , plus the biggest thing that u can't have with apple is overclocking .... so don't tell me apple have somethings special than any pc gamer can have (perhaps better firmware "security" but it's 99% useless to gamers ) cause You're wrong in this , and to be honest a pc gamer ll never use any bull shit Apple product for gaming cause it's simply  illogic lol


Practically half of that list can be negated with the words 'server grade product' which you apparently missed. Server motherboards are built for reliability, not feature sets to pad their marketing bullet points.


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## Pickles Von Brine (Mar 8, 2013)

fwix said:


> sorry u know nothing about pc gamers components! , yep good motherboard (120$-180$ range) have more than what u think ( PWM fans temp protection  solid capac strong VRM better look   better compatibility more PCIE extension dual bios solid PCB etc ... )  , plus the biggest thing that u can't have with apple is overclocking .... so don't tell me apple have somethings special than any pc gamer can have (perhaps better firmware "security" but it's 99% useless to gamers ) cause You're wrong in this , and to be honest a pc gamer ll never use any bull shit Apple product for gaming cause it's simply  illogic lol



Alright, well since you have just turned this into an attack on me, congrats.


*sorry u know nothing about pc gamers components!
*
First off, let me stop you right there. I am 23. I have building machines since I was 13 (10 years) and been overclocking, modifying, modding, breaking, fixing, improving for the past 6. You saying that simply shows your own ignorance as to the difference between 2 different sectors of the consumer market and are solely focused on a small area. Workstation and server grade components and machines are designed COMPLETELY different than a gaming or consumer machine.

*yep good motherboard (120$-180$ range) have more than what u think ( PWM fans temp protection  solid capac strong VRM better look   better compatibility more PCIE extension dual bios solid PCB etc ... )*
Apple's logic boards are more than you think. They have sensors throughout and have constant monitoring (in the mac pro, there are no more than 43 sensors).  As far as Apple goes, they are not for the looks of the their logic boards, and why would they? These boards are built for LONG TERM reliability and stability. You ever seen a server board (not a workstation board) that looks  pretty? Plus, they have enough VRMs to supply the proper amount of power to a CPU for long term stability and reliability (you see where  I am going here). 
Also, the new Mac Pro are going to have more than plenty of PCIe slots. So that is not a question. 
As far as dual bios goes, there are utilities out there (from apple) that let you recover from corrupted firmware. Very rarely have I EVER seen corruption within the firmware on the logic board of a mac. This entire point is rendered mute. 

*plus the biggest thing that u can't have with apple is overclocking .... so don't tell me apple have somethings special than any pc gamer can have (perhaps better firmware "security" but it's 99% useless to gamers ) cause You're wrong in this , and to be honest a pc gamer ll never use any bull shit Apple product for gaming cause it's simply  illogic lol*

Why would you even overclock something that doesn't need to be in the first place. Computer enthusiasts (such as you and I) make up a very small section of the market, thus, why would Apple even cader to that? Apple is about quality. Anything that will jeopardize that is out of the question. That includes overclocking.  Plus, if you are a PC gamer, why the hell would you buy a mac to begin with? They are not really meant for gaming (though they do have the ability to do so). Macs are work horses. They do what they are designed to do perfectly. Why change something that works? Actually, why am I even arguing with an ignorant fool who is trying to again, compare dirt to water. Your entire argument  has no basis and completely biased on nothing but slander. 


BTW, how old are you, 12? Any IT professional (such as myself) would see the clear difference between consumer, enthusiast, and workstation machines.


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## Pickles Von Brine (Mar 8, 2013)

Wrigleyvillain said:


> Well gee someone with common sense!
> 
> Some of the "problems" people have with Apple itself are much more legitimate, however they rarely do things most other companies don't (or wouldn't in the same shoes). The worker suicides thing is a classic example. People screamed "Apple is evil!" when it was at Foxconn who makes parts for damn near everyone, for Christ's sake.


Thank you! I don't understand why there is so much damn apple hate here...


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## fwix (Mar 8, 2013)

OmegaAI said:


> Alright, well since you have just turned this into an attack on me, congrats.
> [



first off I'm 21 years not a kid plus my experience with the high tech start a very long time ago (99 97)  so let me clear this out for u 
1:i didn't attacked u , sorry if u thought that 
2:to let u know i build pc gamer since 2004 for allot of my friend  client and also have allot of experience in modding tunning overclocking  ,also my work is in the HIGH-TECK chop + 3D/VFX + gamings reviews 
3: i know what apple have on there product  and i just want to answer that "Do you have proof of this" thats it , i thought that u don't know anythings about the high quality of pc gamers so...
4: "Any IT professional (such as myself) would see the clear difference between consumer, enthusiast, and workstation machines." yep i do  and  the whole things  I've said to u was only about the pc gamers 
5:"Computer enthusiasts (such as you and I) make up a very small section of the market" if u mean  enthusiasts like overclockers  yep it's true but if u mean enthusiasts like (pc gamers ) sorry You're wrong in this totally wrong


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## Pickles Von Brine (Mar 8, 2013)

fwix said:


> first off I'm 21 years not a kid plus my experience with the high tech start a very long time ago (99 97)  so let me clear this out for u
> 1:i didn't attacked u , sorry if u thought that
> 2:to let u know i build pc gamer since 2004 for allot of my friend  client and also have allot of experience in modding tunning overclocking  ,also my work is in the HIGH-TECK chop + 3D/VFX + gamings reviews
> 3: i know what apple have on there product  and i just want to answer that "Do you have proof of this" thats it , i thought that u don't know anythings about the high quality of pc gamers so...
> ...




Okay. Sorry about that but you came across wrong and it was like an attack. I known on overclock.net for... going gloves off on people when they attack me XD And as far as enthusiasts, I mean overclockers, not gamers. PC gamers... yeah that is a different story. They make up a HUGE section of the PC market.


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