# Is my PSU tough enough ??



## mikey8684 (Jul 17, 2010)

Hey there

I am looking at upgrading my 8800GTX to a GTX470 ... with the current setup in my system specs <-- will my PSU have enough juice to run it all fine ?

I have read that a 500-550w or more is needed for the average gaming pc (whatever that means) .. in the same article in my favourite pc mag the power consumption for the whole pc was only like 380w at full load playing crysis maxed out @ 1920x1080 with 8xAA and 16xAF ?

Should I get myself a new PSU also or stick with the one I have .. and if I should get a new one what wattage is going to be enough ?

Cheers


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## TheLaughingMan (Jul 17, 2010)

I don't think you will need a new PSU even though the GTX 400's are rather power hungry.  If the PSU is more than 3 years old, you have lost some power production due to age (PSU's degrade over time) and could be closer to running over than you thing.  In that cause, maybe you should consider it your next upgrade after the GPU.

The main reason most recommend at least 550W or better is to allow for 3 basic things custom rigs all have in common.  PSU is expected to power rig for several years (accounting for the degradation, especially since more warranties are 3 to 5 years), expandability (no need to worry when adding that third HDD or second GPU, etc.), and comfort (while a 500W PSU can power a computer that uses 480 watts peak, efficiency drops the closer you are to the PSU's max, the sweet spot being 40 to 70% PSU max for effeciency).

I hope all that helps.


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## mikey8684 (Jul 17, 2010)

Thanks TLM ... very helpful


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## Timonthy (Jul 17, 2010)

How many amps does your PSU have on the 12v rail though? 
Many PSUs rated at 500W doesn't quite deliver that much.

Id say do an upgrade if you dont have a full 500W on the 12v rail as that would just be cutting it too close. If your GTX470 gets shorted because of the PSU dying, things wont look so pretty.

BTW, The GTX470 uses ~230W max, with another ~150W for the CPU+RAM, the net power usage should be only about 380W, but that without considering the efficiency/quality of your PSU.


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## Jstn7477 (Jul 17, 2010)

What looks like the link for the PSU: http://www.flexiglow.com/products/SeriesConnect.htm

Manufacturer claims to have a 30a 12v rail. The PSU looks kind of cheap and doesn't specify what style the 2 PCIe power connectors are. I'm pretty sure you need an 8pin and a 6pin for a GTX 470, right?


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## Timonthy (Jul 17, 2010)

Jstn7477 said:


> What looks like the link for the PSU: http://www.flexiglow.com/products/SeriesConnect.htm
> 
> Manufacturer claims to have a 30a 12v rail. The PSU looks kind of cheap and doesn't specify what style the 2 PCIe power connectors are. I'm pretty sure you need an 8pin and a 6pin for a GTX 470, right?



With only 30 amps, it wont cut it for a 470. Period.

Sorry, but you NEED an new PSU if you want a 470, though you might be able to pass with an 5850, or 5830/460.


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## EarthDog (Jul 17, 2010)

30A from an unknown OEM (to me at least) is a bit of a concern. I wouldnt do it. Get yourself a better PSU. A Cosair 550VX would eb a perfect fit...or you can check out my classifieds deal on a 650TX....

If it was a good brand though, that would be the minimum...(30a) I would use and I wouldnt overclock.


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## TheLaughingMan (Jul 17, 2010)

Timonthy said:


> With only 30 amps, it wont cut it for a 470. Period.
> 
> Sorry, but you NEED an new PSU if you want a 470, though you might be able to pass with an 5850, or 5830/460.



That is not necessarily true.  12V rail + 30A = 360W max from that rail's rating.  The max power draw for a 470 is 230W.  That leaves 130W for other things on the 12V rail.  He would not be able to power a higher end CPU and the card at the same time, but a mid-ranged CPU should be fine.

Simple.  You want the card, buy the card.  Just understand that if you start to have random shut downs, system won't boot, etc., it is the PSU hands down and you need more TechPowerUps!  But it doesn't hurt to try.

*Note:  GTX 470 needs 2 6-pins for connection.  comes with adapter for 2 4 pin molex to 1 6 pin PCIe.


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## newtekie1 (Jul 17, 2010)

If it was a decent brand PSU, with a good 12v rail, I'd say you would be fine.  However, with only 30a on the 12v, no way.  I've seen 400w PSUs with 30a on the 12v rail...


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## eidairaman1 (Jul 17, 2010)

What Voltage is that CPU running at OC, how many fans are inside the machine not counting the PSU?

My current machine with specs plugged into a PSU calc, requires 446 watts.


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## Timonthy (Jul 17, 2010)

TheLaughingMan said:


> That is not necessarily true.  12V rail + 30A = 360W max from that rail's rating.  The max power draw for a 470 is 230W.  That leaves 130W for other things on the 12V rail.  He would not be able to power a higher end CPU and the card at the same time, but a mid-ranged CPU should be fine.
> 
> Simple.  You want the card, buy the card.  Just understand that if you start to have random shut downs, system won't boot, etc., it is the PSU hands down and you need more TechPowerUps!  But it doesn't hurt to try.
> 
> *Note:  GTX 470 needs 2 6-pins for connection.  comes with adapter for 2 4 pin molex to 1 6 pin PCIe.



Say his E8500 draws 70W on load and the RAM needs 10W, with another 20W for the board and 20W for his DVD burner/dual Hard drives. He would have barely 10W leftover for the PSU to breathe on load, and with a few fans and LEDs, he'd overload the 12V rail like that. 

Remember the 360W is the "Maximum draw", as in all the PSU can do, and that's not factoring in at least 3 years of degradation and some efficiency lost from the wiring. Even in the beat case, when the PSU rock-solid, running it at 90+% load for prolonged periods of time would most likely end in its fiery death.

It might boot, but Its definitely not stable and way too risky, especially involving high-end hardware like a GTX470. So Its a definite No-go in my book.


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## p_o_s_pc (Jul 17, 2010)

new psu for sure 
if money is a problem any of these should be fine
SILVERSTONE ST60F-P 600W ATX 12V v2.3 / EPS 12V 80...
SeaSonic M12II 520 Bronze 520W ATX12V V2.3 / EPS 1...
SILVERSTONE DECATHLON DA650 650W ATX 12V 2.2 & EPS...
SeaSonic M12II 620 Bronze 620W ATX12V V2.3 / EPS 1...
Antec NeoPower 650 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready ...


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## de.das.dude (Jul 17, 2010)

the best way to calculate is add all the power consumptions of all the devices. this is given for processor and mobo's. for the rest you can simply multiply the current in amperes with the voltage to get the power in wattage(eg for a 0.35A fan it would be 12X0.35 watts). then you can simply add them up. if you cant find or calculate the wattage of any product, you can google it too.


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## joeyck (Jul 17, 2010)

save ur self the head ache and get this : 

XFX P1-650X-CAH9 650W ATX12V v2.2 / ESP12V v2.91 S...

or 


XFX P1-650X-CAG9 650W ATX12V 2.2 / ESP12V 2.91 SLI...

or shit even this : (this is what i have and works just as good as the XFX ones) 

Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Continuous Power ATX12...


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## TheLaughingMan (Jul 17, 2010)

Timonthy said:


> Say his E8500 draws 70W on load and the RAM needs 10W, with another 20W for the board and 20W for his DVD burner/dual Hard drives. He would have barely 10W leftover for the PSU to breathe on load, and with a few fans and LEDs, he'd overload the 12V rail like that.
> 
> Remember the 360W is the "Maximum draw", as in all the PSU can do, and that's not factoring in at least 3 years of degradation and some efficiency lost from the wiring. Even in the beat case, when the PSU rock-solid, running it at 90+% load for prolonged periods of time would most likely end in its fiery death.
> 
> It might boot, but Its definitely not stable and way too risky, especially involving high-end hardware like a GTX470. So Its a definite No-go in my book.



That is not all on the 12V rail.  You are forgetting the 5V and 3.3V rails for the other 140W, that some of those will be using.


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## Timonthy (Jul 17, 2010)

TheLaughingMan said:


> That is not all on the 12V rail.  You are forgetting the 5V and 3.3V rails for the other 140W, that some of those will be using.



Molex are mostly 12V, the 3.3V get 5W here and there, and the Mobo is mostly 12V also.

Even with ~20-30W transferred to the 5v and 3.3v, everything I said is still true, youll still be overloading the PSU.


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## eidairaman1 (Jul 17, 2010)

Load power depends on how hard the CPU is being pushed, how long it has been in operation and what voltage is being fed through.  Use a PSU calculator for a general Idea of what you will need, and no when I plugged in a 500 watt no name will not suffice for a 470GTX, get a 650 Watt unit that is actually Trusted- Btw you dont have to spend a fortune on a good unit- My antec neo he 500 cost me 90 USD back in 2006 from Fry's, still going strong today and it supports the video card I have.


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## CDdude55 (Jul 19, 2010)

HardOCP tested two GTX 470's in SLI, an overclocked i7 etc and stressed it. and it only pulled a bit over 600watts. I think one card shouldn't suck up a whole lot(especally with the rest of the parts being pretty mid range), just make sure you get a quality branded PSU though.




eidairaman1 said:


> Btw you dont have to spend a fortune on a good unit- My antec neo he 500 cost me 90 USD back in 2006 from Fry's, still going strong today and it supports the video card I have.



True, i bought an OCZ Stealthxstream 600w PSU back in '07 for $90 and three years later it's still going strong, i have went through many upgrades on that PSU, from a 8600 GTS to a 4870 and an E4400 to a QX6700, i only upgraded because of course as my system started getting beefier, it just wasn't gonna cut it.(so i moved up to Corsair for my i7 build)


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## EarthDog (Jul 19, 2010)

Thats funny. I thought the Antec Neo and OCZ Stealthextreme were all brands to stay away from, or at least 3rd tier. Theyt are not Powmax PSU's or anything, but I certainly dont think they can be mentioned in the same breath as Corsair, Seasonic, Antec's SIGNATURE line, Enermax Revo, etc...

though maybe I am mistaking as those Neo's are Seasnoic builds......http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQ0NSwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==... LOL


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## Joe Public (Jul 22, 2010)

The StealthXStreams are FSP Epsilon based, and frankly, aren't that good, but they aren't complete crap of course.  But they tend to get a bit high on ripple at higher loads.  

The NeoPowers are Seasonic built, yes, but the craftmanship in those particular units was for some reason not so good.  But Seasonic can do way better than that, as we all know.


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## eidairaman1 (Jul 23, 2010)

Never had an Antec quit on me.



EarthDog said:


> Thats funny. I thought the Antec Neo and OCZ Stealthextreme were all brands to stay away from, or at least 3rd tier. Theyt are not Powmax PSU's or anything, but I certainly dont think they can be mentioned in the same breath as Corsair, Seasonic, Antec's SIGNATURE line, Enermax Revo, etc...
> 
> though maybe I am mistaking as those Neo's are Seasnoic builds......http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQ0NSwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==... LOL


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## CDdude55 (Jul 23, 2010)

EarthDog said:


> Thats funny. I thought the Antec Neo and OCZ Stealthextreme were all brands to stay away from, or at least 3rd tier. Theyt are not Powmax PSU's or anything, but I certainly dont think they can be mentioned in the same breath as Corsair, Seasonic, Antec's SIGNATURE line, Enermax Revo, etc...
> 
> though maybe I am mistaking as those Neo's are Seasnoic builds......http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQ0NSwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==... LOL



Yes they most definitely shouldn't be compared to the top dogs of the PSU world, but really it depends, OCZ's aren't that bad, but i wouldn't put any high end components on one. I consider OCZ and The lower end Antec's more of the middle of the road PSU's, they're good for gaming for a more mid end type build.


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## eidairaman1 (Jul 23, 2010)

Reason I Got the Antec is because the L&C Inc 460W PSU I had was stolen out of my Machine by my grandfather at the time to be used in a customers machine. I knew Antecs were good as never having 1 fail on me that I got what is in my machine now for cheap and trust me 90 USD is cheap.


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## newtekie1 (Jul 23, 2010)

eidairaman1 said:


> Never had an Antec quit on me.



I've had about 7 die on my so far.  I used to trust them, in fact I preferred them, until I did 7 builds(6 workstations and a server) for a company all using Antec power supplies.  The server popped an Antec power supply about once every 4-5 months, I'd have to keep stealing one of the PSUs out of the workstations to put in the server to get it up and running immediately, then replace the workstation PSU.  I just rotated all the Antec PSUs out slowly as they died and replaced them with Rosewill or FSP units, haven't had a PSU pop since.


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## cdawall (Jul 23, 2010)

i would upgrade the whole PC and keep the 8800GTX


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## CDdude55 (Jul 23, 2010)

newtekie1 said:


> I've had about 7 die on my so far.  I used to trust them, in fact I preferred them, until I did 7 builds(6 workstations and a server) for a company all using Antec power supplies.  The server popped an Antec power supply about once every 4-5 months, I'd have to keep stealing one of the PSUs out of the workstations to put in the server to get it up and running immediately, then replace the workstation PSU.  I just rotated all the Antec PSUs out slowly as they died and replaced them with Rosewill or FSP units, haven't had a PSU pop since.



For a company, i would only consider the best.


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## newtekie1 (Jul 23, 2010)

CDdude55 said:


> For a company, i would only consider the best.



That would be perfect if budgets didn't exist...


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## CDdude55 (Jul 23, 2010)

newtekie1 said:


> That would be perfect if budgets didn't exist...



Touché.


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## Magikherbs (Aug 5, 2010)

TheLaughingMan said:


> That is not all on the 12V rail.  You are forgetting the 5V and 3.3V rails for the other 140W, that some of those will be using.



Good day !
Notice only one of the two 12v rails shows 30A. Im guessing thats combined ?
My psu shows 30A and 26A for each 12v rail.
Ill be upgrading to an EAH4890 soon. Do you think my psu will handle it and maybe my 9800 as a physx proc?

Peace


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## NdMk2o1o (Aug 5, 2010)

cdawall said:


> i would upgrade the whole PC and keep the 8800GTX



What? he has an E8500 and 4gb ram why upgrade them, the 8800GTX is the bottleneck 

To the OP I wouldn't bother sticking an 470 in that pc with your PSU, upgrade it OR get a GTX 460, definately more suited to the rest of your rig


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## Magikherbs (Aug 10, 2010)

cdawall said:


> i would upgrade the whole PC and keep the 8800GTX



Wierd.. since Friday when I learned about this 8800 GTX for sale , $60, at a local shop.. that model keeps coming up like just now.. and yesterday when we looked up SC2's min requirements. Under 'recommended' they list.... hehe   if its still there in two weeks.. lol


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## TechPowerDown (Aug 10, 2010)

i'd buy a new PSU


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## Tatty_One (Aug 10, 2010)

I have only quickly skimmed through the thread so forgive me if I am missing something..... If his PSU will handle a GTX8800 which draws on average 315W at load, then it will handle a GTX 470 at around 232W, unless I have the 470's consumption wrong.


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## Anarchy0110 (Aug 10, 2010)

I'd go with about 600-650W PSU for a GTX470 
@CDdude: Saw you changed from a 8600GTS to a HD4870. E4400 to QX6700. For three years ago
Wish you still hold them  Probably not right


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## Magikherbs (Aug 10, 2010)

Tatty_One said:


> I have only quickly skimmed through the thread so forgive me if I am missing something..... If his PSU will handle a GTX8800 which draws on average 315W at load, then it will handle a GTX 470 at around 232W, unless I have the 470's consumption wrong.



None of that matters if you dont have the AMPS behind the 12v rails. My guess is, you'll need 30-40A , combined on all 12v rails, just for 470. I vaguely remember reading that the 8800GTX needs 26A.


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## Tatty_One (Aug 10, 2010)

Magikherbs said:


> None of that matters if you dont have the AMPS behind the 12v rails. My guess is, you'll need 30-40A , combined on all 12v rails, just for 470. I vaguely remember reading that the 8800GTX needs 26A.



Less than 18A for a 470, you are right, 22 - 26A for a 8800GTX, therefore as I said, the 8800GTX draws more  ........

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gigabyte-gf-gtx400_6.html#sect0

personally i would definatly change that PSU, my comment is meerly allied to the fact that if his GTX8800 copes, then the 470 "should".


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## CDdude55 (Aug 10, 2010)

Faith[ROG].Anarchy said:


> I'd go with about 600-650W PSU for a GTX470
> @CDdude: Saw you changed from a 8600GTS to a HD4870. E4400 to QX6700. For three years ago
> Wish you still hold them  Probably not right



I still have the E4400 somewhere around here, the other stuff is gone.


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