# Windows 8 a Catastrophe, Want Linux to Thrive: Gabe Newell



## btarunr (Jul 26, 2012)

Gabe Newell is part of the crowd that's not impressed with Microsoft Windows 8, or the direction in which it's going to take PC gaming. Newell's concerns, expressed in an interview to VentureBeat, go beyond the God-awful UI, and predict that Windows 8 could reshape the computing industry in a way that's bad for high-performance desktops, at least those sold by major OEMs, which could affect game developers and distributors such as Valve, which took roots in the PC platform. 

"I think that Windows 8 is kind of a catastrophe for everybody in the PC space. I think that we're going to lose some of the top-tier PC [original equipment manufacturers]. They'll exit the market. I think margins are going to be destroyed for a bunch of people. If that's true, it's going to be a good idea to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality," said Newell. 






The alternatives he is referring to are the other platforms Valve is setting up its Steam content distribution platform. The company already has Steam client for Apple OS X, with quite a few of its games ported to, and enabled to existing buyers using SteamPlay. The company also recently announced that its client for desktop Linux (Ubuntu, to be precise), is up and running, and that it sees a future for PC gaming on Linux. 

Moving the PC gaming to Linux is not a herculean task, and is just going to need a few few big companies to take initiatives. One of them is Valve, the others include companies governing Linux distributions, hardware vendors getting their act together and releasing fully-functional drivers, and lastly, for game developers to see the potential in all of it. The move to Linux doesn't change the machine, it only changes the software. 

"One, we're trying to make sure that Linux thrives. Our perception is that one of the big problems holding Linux back is the absence of games. I think that a lot of people - in their thinking about platforms - don't realize how critical games are as a consumer driver of purchases and usage. So we're going to continue working with the Linux distribution guys, shipping Steam, shipping our games, and making it as easy as possible for anybody who's engaged with us - putting their games on Steam and getting those running on Linux, as well. It's a hedging strategy," said Newell.

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## Initialised (Jul 26, 2012)

I disagree, after moving my desktop to Windows 8 my gaming performance went up. This scaremongering doesn't help the PC industry. But Windows could do with some competition.


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## KainXS (Jul 26, 2012)

he is not talking about performance he is saying that windows 8 will have more emphasis on the microsoft store and the microsoft store is going close windows off because microsoft manages everything, and he is right, but he is overreacting, windows will still be windows and you can still install applications the old way so yea.

hes just scared of competition in reality


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## xanagu (Jul 26, 2012)

mister fat-ass here only fears for his market share


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## gottimw (Jul 26, 2012)

xanagu said:


> mister fat-ass here only fears for his market share



"mister fat-ass" also created platform that kept PC gaming going and created huge market niche for indi developers. And now he is trying to make Linux more popular. Not to mention creating one of the best company to work for (at least in gaming industry), that is run for innovation and then for profit. Have you ever played bad Valve game???

So how about all of you Mac and Windows fan boys go back to your fanboying forums and live happily in your bobbles.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jul 26, 2012)

My biggest problem is the UI, I simply won't switch. I already have an Android tablet, I don't need a UI like that for my PC.


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## _JP_ (Jul 26, 2012)

Win8 has a crappy GUI and locks-out some boot features...that's it.


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## xanagu (Jul 26, 2012)

gottimw said:


> "mister fat-ass" also created platform that kept PC gaming going and created huge market niche for indi developers. And now he is trying to make Linux more popular. Not to mention creating one of the best company to work for (at least in gaming industry), that is run for innovation and then for profit. Have you ever played bad Valve game???
> 
> So how about all of you Mac and Windows fan boys go back to your fanboying forums and live happily in your bobbles.



Lol, as if anyone can extract a single reason for bashing W8 from his words


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## Delta6326 (Jul 26, 2012)

btarunr said:


> "I think that Windows 8 is kind of a catastrophe for everybody in the PC space. I think that we’re going to lose some of the top-tier PC [original equipment manufacturers]. They’ll exit the market. I think margins are going to be destroyed for a bunch of people. If that’s true, it’s going to be a good idea to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality," said Newell.



...What!? Why would top-tier PC OEM exit the market because of W8? I'm sorry to say Gabe, but the majority of PC owners don't play PC games.


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## GSquadron (Jul 26, 2012)

And why Gabe telling this? I told this on this forum weeks ago and no news appeared...

(this is true for others. I wrote this to make it even more believing that windows 8 is a piece of ****)

Not only games, but even OS are going so low

@delta
All people i know in my life all played games, even teachers and babies 4 years old. Even girls played Counter-Strike
which i was amazed. Or games on facebook where i get 500 requests everyday

And even a 80 year old who played chess on my pc...


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## cadaveca (Jul 26, 2012)

Delta6326 said:


> ...What!? Why would top-tier PC OEM exit the market because of W8? I'm sorry to say Gabe, but the majority of PC owners don't play PC games.



The talk of Linux is because it's an open platform, and Windows 8 is a move towards a walled garden like Apple has with their products. This is turn means that hardware specifications may be dictated like how Apple does it, with very limited upgrade paths, and very few "certified compatible" parts. With less possibility to upgrade, of course hardware makers are going to disappear.

The majority of PC owners is NOT the majority of PC users. Most PCs are owned by businesses, but at the same time, most people play some gamne or another on thier PC.

Keep in mind, PC = Personal Computer, and an iphone, or any "smartphone". is a personal computer. Gabe said it himself, he's not very good at conveying his own ideas, so you very much need to read between the lines here, and from Gabe's perspective.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 26, 2012)

He just wants people to buy Steam box.


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## Morgoth (Jul 26, 2012)

i find it good that gabe supports osx and linux, i do hope he releases a sdk that works with linux and osx so mods can be used on those platforms to


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## BigMack70 (Jul 26, 2012)

Windows 8 does look like a catastrophe to me (for desktop PC)... I won't ever switch to that horrid looking UI. 

For tablets, it looks great, but it just seems to be too schizophrenic as an OS overall.


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## v12dock (Jul 26, 2012)

Put the old UI back and I am betting Microsoft will and everyone will be happy


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## Steevo (Jul 26, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> He just wants people to buy Steam box.



Occams electric shaver.

Follow the money, why put on a BS show like this when the new UI can be disabled on Win 8, preceding the launch of their own platform and content, it is a FUD move.


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## Ravenas (Jul 26, 2012)

Microsoft just reported their first quarterly loss since 1987 or 1986. Windows 8 will continue this bleeding.


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## trickson (Jul 26, 2012)

Win8 just plain sucks. It looks like some kid made the thing.


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## Fragman (Jul 26, 2012)

The only thing holding me on wincrap from microcrap is the games.


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## Crap Daddy (Jul 26, 2012)

Ravenas said:


> Microsoft just reported their first quarterly loss since 1987 or 1986. Windows 8 will continue this bleeding.



You are talking about this?

http://www.techpowerup.com/169283/Microsoft-Reports-Record-Fourth-Quarter-and-Full-Year-Revenue.html

I'm seeing everything's bright and shinny.


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## AphexDreamer (Jul 26, 2012)

He says go beyond the UI. Granted the UI sucks and most of us don't like it, it can be disabled. You have to wonder what Microsoft's real goal is here? 

This new look and direction of Microsoft's OS for PC's could very well lead to what Gabe predicts and I like gabe hope this isn't true and I'm all for the Linux Popularity Boost.


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## Ravenas (Jul 26, 2012)

Crap Daddy said:


> You are talking about this?
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/169283/Microsoft-Reports-Record-Fourth-Quarter-and-Full-Year-Revenue.html
> 
> I'm seeing everything's bright and shinny.



http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/19/us-microsoft-earnings-idUSBRE86I1DP20120719





> The Redmond, Washington-based company reported a net loss of $492 million, or 6 cents per share, for its fiscal fourth quarter, compared with a profit of $5.87 billion, or 69 cents per share, in the year-ago quarter.
> 
> The loss was expected after Microsoft said earlier this month that it would take a $6.2 billion write-down for the value of its online unit after an ill-fated acquisition of a digital advertising agency five years ago.
> 
> Microsoft has not suffered a quarterly loss since going public in 1986.



It makes it look better when the numbers are like this (0.06) instead of like this -0.06.


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## alucasa (Jul 26, 2012)

Simple rule of MS.

Good OS -> Bad OS -> Good OS -> Bad OS -> Good OS and so on.

Windows 7 was good, so historically speaking, Windows 8 is bound to be a big poo.


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## selveneighten (Jul 26, 2012)

If this means that one day there will be fully functioning Nvidia/AMD drivers in Linux, I will cry tears of joy.


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## NC37 (Jul 26, 2012)

Reminds me of the x86 switch for OSX. Years just after were really dark for gaming on Macs. Mostly because of Bootcamp. There was no need for Mac gaming companies due to it. I called it too but everyone was overjoyed. It only sorta recovered because of iOS and improving market share. Heck that change also killed off the upgrade market for Macs with the exception of the flashing community.

If Win 8 is such a drastic change then I could see what Gabe says being true.


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## Wrigleyvillain (Jul 26, 2012)

Of course market share concern (and perhaps Steam box too) is a part of this but Gaben and Valve have never come across as greedy in any way. It's easier when you have no shareholders you must please, but still.... 

While I agree with Kurgan re the new UI it's still funny to hear people say it looks pre-schooly or "like a kid made it" cause thats exactly what people said about Windows XP at first. Though, yeah, this is on a whole different level, so to speak.

And as for a "bad" Valve game...I don't know...remember Ricochet?


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## semantics (Jul 26, 2012)

gabe just fears more people going into the distro business, esp in RT windows 8 where it's unlikely "indie" devs will be willing to choose steam over the default windows store. Yeah steam is so great, it doesn't even have the ability to throttle download traffic so you can watch movies and share your Internet with your roommates, instead you're forced to pause dl's and updates to when it's convenient like when you're asleep.

He wants linux for better profit margins, but anyone who thinks windows is hurting gaming industry obviously never heard of directx or the direct X-box and xbox 360.

Outside of that people just have to realize that metro style was thought up based on activity data they gathered, and how little people actually use the start button in windows 7 instead they pin programs most of the time so if you just make the start bar the size of the desktop and pin everything in the center you get metro. Add a few capability things to replace things like notification icons and you're solid.


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## Ravenas (Jul 26, 2012)

semantics said:


> He wants linux for better profit margins, but anyone who thinks windows is hurting gaming industry obviously never heard of directx or the direct X-box and xbox 360.



How is DirectX helping gamers in any sense? DirectX is locking gamers in to Windows. This is similar in nature to how ActiveX locks users in to IE.

DirectX makes it easy to port from PC to Xbox 360 and vise versa, but it would be no different if it were OpenGL.

Microsoft doesn't support OpenGL because it is open and they don't want their customers and OEMs jumping ship every time the market share of another company's OS begins to rise.


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## Nordic (Jul 26, 2012)

When I saw this my first thought was that... well... I was first. Doesn't matter though. Decentralized gaming I hope is the future


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 26, 2012)

Windows 8 isn't that bad. I think its blown up to be a bigger fail then it really will be. I think that right away it will not be widely adopted on the desktop environment, but in terms of Tablets and Phones, it is a pretty amazing OS.


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## Syborfical (Jul 27, 2012)

Windows * brings SFA to the PC platform

IMO the default GUI is a retarded backwards step. 
In vista and 7 aero is the first thing I turn off. I just like a win95 style start bar and its been that way since win 95.

Windows Vista was a steaming Pile.
Windows 7 was an epic improvement.

What does windows 8 bring to the table?...


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## Nordic (Jul 27, 2012)

Syborfical said:


> Windows * brings SFA to the PC platform
> 
> IMO the default GUI is a retarded backwards step.
> In vista and 7 aero is the first thing I turn off. I just like a win95 style start bar and its been that way since win 95.
> ...



I didn't have a problem with vista. I liked 7 a lot. 8 does bring a lot to the table. Better security, less resources used, better/faster file transfer system. Really the core of windows 8 is much better. Its the fluff that sucks. Vista/7 fluff could be turned off easily with out changing a thing on usability of the system.

I for one am sticking to 7.


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## Ravenas (Jul 27, 2012)

nvidiaintelftw said:


> but in terms of Tablets and Phones, it is a pretty amazing OS.



That is debatable. 

Microsoft is claiming their "Surface" tablet is not to compete with their OEM vendors, but merely a design that others should follow. Thus your experience is going to based on your hardware running the software. Furthermore, the adoption rate of Windows 8 tablets will be severely hindered due to Apple and Google releasing $200 tablets. Microsoft won't even be able to sell the Windows RT version at that price. The tablet market is getting bloated (at high and low price ranges) and Microsoft is late to the game yet again.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 27, 2012)

who cares really i dislike Win 8, love the performance tweaks hate the GUI, they locked out the ability to switch back to the old Win 7 interface that was a big F U to me, 

as for Games Linux actually stands a chance lets take a quick look

what do most mobile computing devices use? Open GL ES 1.0 and ES 2.0
that means Tablets, Smartphones, ARM based devices all use Open GL,

Nintendo Wii, Wii U are Open GL
Playstation 3 is Open GL
Playstation 4 or W.e is Open GL

Id Tech Game Engine = Open GL
Unreal Engine supports Open GL
Source Engine supports Open GL
Unigen Engine supports Open GL
Most professional Applications use Open GL

Was talking with Mussels about this earlier,

PS3 Open GL ES 2.0 or in reality Sonys bastardised version has Shader Model 2.0 like effects, and abilities and we can see what a PS3 can put out examples Metal Gear Solid, Uncharted, Killzone etc

Valve moving to Linux is probably more related to Steam Box or something similar but effectively there is 0 reason for Linux to not have support for games, as it stands Open GL 4.1 allows for Open GL ES 2.0 to work together aka they are compatible finally Open GL ES 2.0 came out in 2007 as a standard, it wasnt untill Open GL 4.1 came about that Desktop users could run Open GL ES 2.0 apps, hilariously enough AMD GPUs support Open GL ES 2.0 as is,

This means todays desktop GPUs with Open GL 4.1 support could in theory run PS3 ports etc, and AMD already having Open GL ES 2.0 could give them an edge in support. This kinda gives the AMD / Valve combo a bit of an upside well sort of AMD Open GL support is spotty at best in professional apps altho game support seems to be fine, but it depends on what your looking at. Regardless Valve has the software side covered, AMD looks to be along with Dell's Alienware brand as hardware / oem support, now add in an unrestricted OS with no limitation or cost for use.

In terms of the way things are looking PS3 / PS4 to linux ports are possible much like Xbox 360 to PC was, as it stands any Mac compatible game should be easily ported to linux as well.

Examples of Mac games that should be easy to port to Linux

Left 4 Dead 2
Civilization V
Counter Strike
Amnesia The Dark Descent
Star Wars The Force Unleashed
Crusader Kings II
Grand Thef Auto Vice City 
Grand Theft Auto San Andreas
Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic
Trine 2
Trine
Half Life 2
Assassins Creed Brotherhood
Assassins Creed II
The Witcher
Killing Floor
The Darkness II
Driver San Francisco
Dear Esther
Torchlight
Civilization IV
Blades of Time
Serious Sam 3 BFE
Tom Clancy Splinter Cell Conviction
RUSE
Two Worlds II
Duke Nukem Forever

385 games that are Mac Compatible, 

thats 385 games that could quickly be ported over, add in Open GL's usage in the mobile market is extreme well you can start to see the picture.

Now add in the fact that Valve is potentially worth MORE than AMD at this point (supposedly valued around $3 Billion), it doesnt seem all that far fetched that with AMD as one of their premier partners Dell as an OEM, that they had this planned. Valve has been making strategic partnerships for some time, so steam box could be a reality altho less an actually system and more an Ideal as it were.

as it stands a Linux based gaming system means free OS, free OS means $100 towards better parts in theory raising the minimum spec builds because of OS cost being taken out.

Overall Gabe does have issues expressing himself but should he succeed i would gladly switch to Linux for gaming, Open GL or Direct X matters not to me both can achieve the same graphics fidelity, and in fact Open GL has the greater possible audience as of Open GL ES 2.0 and Open GL 4.1.  Desktops both Mac, Linux, Windows support Open GL, iPhone, iPad, other tablets ARM based devices Windows RT all make use of Open GL ES 1.0 2.0 etc etc, with combined functionality and almost ALL of todays game engines supporting Open GL is some form, its really not that hard to see what Gabe is pushing for, support for most of it is already there it just requires a push.


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## mandis (Jul 27, 2012)

gottimw said:


> "mister fat-ass" also created platform that kept PC gaming going and created huge market niche for indi developers. And now he is trying to make Linux more popular. Not to mention creating one of the best company to work for (at least in gaming industry), that is run for innovation and then for profit. Have you ever played bad Valve game???
> 
> So how about all of you Mac and Windows fan boys go back to your fanboying forums and live happily in your bobbles.



AGREED! I've used/built PCs for the last 22 years and to me Valve has been the one reason for being enthusiastic about the platform. Originally through their AWESOME games and more recently through their web store they've made the PC the great gaming/developing platform that it is today. 

In my opinion, Microsoft is somewhat blind to all of this! They showed a complete disregard for PC Gamers when they released the XBOX and that showed when many years later they halfheartedly ported Halo to the PC. Now they are trying to copy Apple and Google by releasing their own store. In their manic bloodthirsty pursuit for control (money) they are hurting their own platform!

As far as Linux is concerned, I like it!! But it doesn't seem to like my nvidia sli setup...


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## mandis (Jul 27, 2012)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> who cares really i dislike Win 8, love the performance tweaks hate the GUI, they locked out the ability to switch back to the old Win 7 interface that was a big F U to me,
> 
> as for Games Linux actually stands a chance lets take a quick look
> 
> ...



You seem to be confusing GRAPHIC ENGINES to GAME DEVELOPMENT ENGINES. openGL is only a graphics API and not an SDK by itself. So NO! porting games from RISC (PPC/ARM) to SISC and vise versa is still going to take a lot of effort from developers...

I know of an engine called UNITY 3D that supposedly does it but the outcome is usually far from optimal.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 27, 2012)

uh Unreal Engine, its base code is mainly unchanged between platform, doesnt matter if its PPC or X86 etc, it still runs Open GL regardless, 

so no im not confusing anything 

the GAME engine is Id tech 5 for example
Call of Duty is running on a modified Id Tech 3, 
Source Engine runs on a modified Id Tech 3 i believe if i remember right
Unreal Engine has to have support for Open GL and both code paths again PS3 / 360,  Mac OS X / Windows

so no in reality the Engine thats take the basic model and texture information and display it while handling physics AI as well have the code paths already for Direct X and Open GL, otherwise you wouldnt see the games on all systems,

I know the difference in API as well,

Simple fact IS

Open GL ES 2.0 is the standard for ARM and Mobile Devices,
Open GL ES 1.0 and 2.0 were bastardised in the use of the PS3,
Open GL ES 1.0 and 2.0 from what i remember are used in the Wii and Wii U

only one console uses Direct X, yes current consoles are Power PC based, but then if its so different why do essentially Xbox code run perfectly fine on PC, anyone remember Dead Island where the 360 version was essentially used as the PC version and it got pulled, but worked just fine? 

doesnt matter much all these code paths are there for the most part, It has to be, otherwise the engines couldnt be used, ARM is not PPC, PPC is not x86 but Unreal Engine works across all without issue same goes for many other game engines. 

Essentially these APIs get called various names but essentially

Wii, Wii U, PS3, PS4, ARM, all make use of Open GL in some form or another, do to Open GL ES 2.0 and 4.1 offering programmable pipeline they can be customized, but in the end 

OpenGL 4.1

Released on 26 July 2010[32]
 Supported Cards: Nvidia GeForce 400 series, Nvidia GeForce 500 series, ATI Radeon HD 5000 series, AMD Radeon HD 6000 Series, AMD Radeon HD 7000 Series

This new version adds these additional features to the specification, many of which help bring it in line with those in Direct3D 11:
OpenGL Shading language (GLSL) 4.1
Full compatibility with OpenGL for Embedded Systems (OpenGL ES) 2.0 APIs
Reduced shaders compilation times with the ability to query and load a binary for shader program objects
The ability to bind programs individually to the five programmable stages (Vertex, Tessellation Control, Tessellation Evaluation, Geometry, and Fragment)
Improvements to the general 64-bit floating point supported added in OpenGL 4.0 (64-bit floating-point component input for vertex shader)

Essentially this means as of Open GL 4.1 support for Open GL ES 2.0 based APIs is possible on desktops Open GL is no on version 4.2 which supports Tessellation etc,

the API essentially now offers broader support across nearly every possible platform in one way or another 

In terms of abilities Open GL ES 2.0 = Open GL 2.0 
They were seperate however for a great deal of time, the newest revision change this, essentially their are many off shoots but its not unlike Direct X in terms of 9, 10 or 11 where different functionalities exist for different hardware. Considering again most GAME ENGINES have support for Open GL due to the other platforms its not that much different, and considering the Mac OSX game support is continuing to grow and makes use of the same API and functions Linux does, its not that big a stretch, the major issue is kernel support etc among various Linux builds which is why Valve is sticking to one distro right now and it just so happens to be the most popular Distro in use by consumers.

In reality Open GL is actually easier to code for, HOWEVER its harder for Hardware vendors to write a good performing DRIVER for it,

Essentially both APIs can accomplish the same thing each offers a different advantage.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 27, 2012)

FYI the next Call of Duty after Black Ops 2 is gonna be DX11. You people thinking openGL is gonna become industry standard anytime soon are pipe dreaming. DICE also has ZERO plans to go OpenGL.

http://www.shacknews.com/article/74977/call-of-duty-dev-working-on-directx-11-game


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 27, 2012)

yea mailman, if a Dice game is running on a PS3, same with Call of Duty the engine still has Open GL functionality, it has to otherwise well the games wouldnt work on that console 

the PS3's proprietary API uses an Open GL wrapper, thus uses Open GL calls to render out the image, essentially its a bastardized version of Open GL,

its irrelevent about industry standard because it IS industry standard, just not on PC, 

if the games on Wii U, and PS3, it uses Open GL if its on Xbox of w.e kind its Direct X,

granted we can see the shortcomings Open GL has granted carmack blamed driver problems on AMD / Nvidia for RAGE's bad PC support but, thats more do to the fact Open GL is again harder for hardware vendors to write drivers for, this is why it has a bigger console share, its 1 set of hardware write a driver and then leave it alone, everyone uses that base config, if that can be ironed out then there is no reason Open GL cant be used,

It is true DX11 effects would have to be recoded from scratch since write now they are not in parity in terms of code in game engines, aka because its a PC only feature currently that much is true.

so no game engines except Unigine Engine, has Open GL features similar to Direct X 11,

that said Unreal, Id Tech, Source are all capable of DX9 / 10 functionality in Open GL if need be.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 27, 2012)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> yea mailman, if a Dice game is running on a PS3, same with Call of Duty the engine still has Open GL functionality, it has to otherwise well the games wouldnt work on that console


Yeah and the quality of those graphics is impeccable . NVIDIA and MS dump a ton of cash into development houses. Until that stops DX is gonna have the best graphics and best support.


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## T4C Fantasy (Jul 27, 2012)

Gabe is a noob if he thinks he can convert windows users to linux its laughable really


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## Nordic (Jul 27, 2012)

T4C Fantasy said:


> Gabe is a noob if he thinks he can convert windows users to linux its laughable really



I would gladly go to linux if the games I played were there also. Most games I play right now could easily go to linux. Ns2, in my sig, wouldn't do it unless steam went to linux. Since steam is on linux, the will have a linux version.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 27, 2012)

theres also the thing that Valve tends to sell you a game and it works on any platform its released on oh hye you bought Civ IV on Windows heres your Mac Version Free, oh hey you own all Valve titles heres your Mac version free oh you boughty PS3 version of Portal 2 heres your PC version lol. you get the idea should they move to Linux or get game develeopers to move to it, you see users gain games for that platform for nothing really.



TheMailMan78 said:


> Yeah and the quality of those graphics is impeccable . NVIDIA and MS dump a ton of cash into development houses. Until that stops DX is gonna have the best graphics and best support.



very true mailman very very true, but are you gonna tell me Metal Gear Solid 4, Uncharted Drakes Fortune, dont look amazing using Open GL? lol it can be done, but i digress in terms of multi plat Open GL versions tend to be inferior, and it does all come down to money, but thats why its rather interesting to see AMD partnered with Valve, and them pushing for Linux, while also having contracts for all the next generation consoles, which should see Open GL again reach parity with Direct X once game engines are recoded to handle their Open GL implementations. never said it was going to be an overnight sensation, But its entirely possible that Valve can pull this off, The thing is getting it all in motion before next set of consoles hit.

But i digress Direct X is the mainstay, good examples where it proves to be superior,

Skyrim
Mass Effect Series (360 = 30fps PS3 = 20-22FPS)
to name a couple, so yea currently developers havent had much reason to utilize Open GL on WIndows PC, i mean hell when Dead Islan can screw up and run 360 code and still work it kinda shows you how similar it really is lol to PC in terms of the 360.

But with a move to Linux, third party titles from the PS3 / PS4 could be moved over to linux easier then say a 360 game or xbox next or w.e Microsoft wants to call it, its not really so much about API, Game Engine or support, its about Developers and what their return on investment will be, if they make a PC version do they make 1 good Windows version a mediocre Mac / Windows version or a less then adequate Mac / Linux / Windows version, essentially more platforms means more work, and while its possible it requires Valve to show Developers there is a market there that wants those titles, and will make the coding for it worth while. The interesting thing about that is once the coding is done, it becomes much much easier from then on its getting that initial investment of time and money spent on getting it working properlry that developers are gonna have issues with, and even then i think its less developers and more about Publishers and the we need you to pump out a game every year mentality.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 27, 2012)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> theres also the thing that Valve tends to sell you a game and it works on any platform its released on oh hye you bought Civ IV on Windows heres your Mac Version Free, oh hey you own all Valve titles heres your Mac version free oh you boughty PS3 version of Portal 2 heres your PC version lol. you get the idea should they move to Linux or get game develeopers to move to it, you see users gain games for that platform for nothing really.



The only reason Gabe said anything is to promote the Steambox. That's it. He see Windows 8 as a competitor to Steam even without the Steambox for that matter. MS is doing exactly what Apple has been doing for years yet Gabe was so proud to release Steam on OSX. Really? But MS is evil? Come on dude this is just marketing rhetoric.



crazyeyesreaper said:


> very true mailman very very true, but are you gonna tell me Metal Gear Solid 4, Uncharted Drakes Fortune, dont look amazing using Open GL? lol it can be done, but i digress in terms of multi plat Open GL versions tend to be inferior, and it does all come down to money, but thats why its rather interesting to see AMD partnered with Valve, and them pushing for Linux, while also having contracts for all the next generation consoles, which should see Open GL again reach parity with Direct X once game engines are recoded to handle their Open GL implementations. never said it was going to be an overnight sensation, But its entirely possible that Valve can pull this off,


 Oh sure because AMD is legendary in their awesome support for OpenGL.


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## T4C Fantasy (Jul 27, 2012)

james888 said:


> I would gladly go to linux if the games I played were there also. Most games I play right now could easily go to linux. Ns2, in my sig, wouldn't do it unless steam went to linux. Since steam is on linux, the will have a linux version.



windows will always be the most popular *desktop* os... no need to fight it, stay on the good side.

windows has the most compatbility, linux is for  mainly programmers it will NEVER be as user friendly as mac or windows... NEVER lol


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 27, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> The only reason Gabe said anything is to promote the Steambox. That's it. He see Windows 8 as a competitor to Steam even without the Steambox for that matter. MS is doing exactly what Apple has been doing for years yet Gabe was so proud to release Steam on OSX. Really? But MS is evil? Come on dude this is just marketing rhetoric.
> 
> Oh sure because AMD is legendary in their awesome support for OpenGL.



again never said easy or over night also never said it WASNT marketing rhetoric, Valve sees and opportunity and like any business they will exploit it thats business 101.

Im just saying its possible to make it work on Linux and make it a viable gaming platform, and that its really not THAT hard to do so, its just like we both know it comes down to MONEY, and RETURN ON INVESTMENT, will developers go for it or not? Valve seems to think so, and considering Valve being private owned is now worth more than AMD, im willing to bet Valve will make money off this hand over fist in some way shape or form.

I dont care if they do, i think it would still be awesome to have the option to play games on Linux, which is just an install and go no dicking around with Wine lol. And i also agree its about Steambox

why wouldnt they push for Linux? its fucking FREE, slap Linux on Steambox you get a console with a functional OS and you didnt have to pay for the OS 
we all know its a just a PC with a different name

so $500 Steambox (pulling the number out of my ass here) what looks better to Valve and developers

$500 for parts or $400 for Parts $100 for OS, in this situation Steambox with Linux offers more bang for buck hardware wise, this is just a really simple look at it however.

I dont expect this Linux Valve marriage of Awesome with Terrible AMD open GL support to go anywhere fast, but in a couple years time, it will have gained some traction.


----------



## T4C Fantasy (Jul 27, 2012)

Fun Fact: Sinbad the comedian is a Mac User since his first appearance at MacWorld in 85

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFUwKJa0JbY <-- hilarious video for pc/mac users, i dont really like mac but  i still love sinbad comedy so its ok haha


----------



## Nordic (Jul 27, 2012)

T4C Fantasy said:


> windows will always be the most popular *desktop* os... no need to fight it, stay on the good side.
> 
> windows has the most compatbility, linux is for  mainly programmers it will NEVER be as user friendly as mac or windows... NEVER lol


Since when are you omniscient? You can see the future and that windows will always be king. It will be replaced someday, not anytime soon, but someday. Everything does.

I like windows, I really do. But I could even be happy with a hackintosh. I don't have a favorite os, I just need something that works. The thing that I like about linux is that it is free, open, and does all the same things. Linux in my opinion can be just as good as windows. The only thing keeping me, and a lot of people, is the compatibility. What is stopping me from a total conversion is games and my laptops finger print scanner. Man I love that scanner. Great for when I just woke up and can't see my keyboard because my eyes are so blurry. I really hope gaming on linux gains momentum, even if I don't use it, I just like the ability to game on linux available.

When did you last try linux? Depending on which linux, it can be uber user friendly. *If my grandmother, who happens to think google is the internet, can use linux mint without ever calling me for help... it is pretty darn user friendly.*


----------



## T4C Fantasy (Jul 27, 2012)

james888 said:


> Since when are you omniscient? You can see the future and that windows will always be king. It will be replaced someday, not anytime soon, but someday. Everything does.
> 
> I like windows, I really do. But I could even be happy with a hackintosh. I don't have a favorite os, I just need something that works. The thing that I like about linux is that it is free, open, and does all the same things. Linux in my opinion can be just as good as windows. The only thing keeping me, and a lot of people, is the compatibility. What is stopping me from a total conversion is games and my laptops finger print scanner. Man I love that scanner. Great for when I just woke up and can't see my keyboard because my eyes are so blurry.
> 
> When did you last try linux? Depending on which linux, it can be uber user friendly. *If my grandmother, who happens to think google is the internet, can use linux mint without ever calling me for help... it is pretty darn user friendly.*



lol it doesnt matter what linux you use... windows will be more user friendly... extracting and executing files is MUCH simplier on windows than linux thats just a fact...

look noone can convert me to linux or mac.. ive been using windows since 2002 and mac from 1998-2001 got tired of the G3 freezing there is nothing a linux user can do that i cant for what i need to get done, and I'm! a programmer lol.. noone needs linux for any reason, i dont even use linux for my game server and web server, so really.. the hype over anything other than windows is trash and useless


----------



## Bjorn_Of_Iceland (Jul 27, 2012)

Man.. Gabe Newell's facade looks so degraded nowadays.. compared to that corporate demeanor I saw back in 1999. Not a bad thing though XD.


----------



## hellrazor (Jul 27, 2012)

When's TF2 coming out for linux?


----------



## W1zzard (Jul 27, 2012)

PS3 uses libGCM, which is what most games use. PS3 OpenGL is basically an emulation layer on top of libGCM, and developers don't like that.

I wonder how many of the "i would totally use linux for gaming" people have ever used linux. the gaming quality driver support is really bad.

Do you think AMD or NVIDIA will allocate resources for improving Linux drivers if they can't even update their WHQL Windows drivers for months, which is their core business.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jul 27, 2012)

I think only cheap, simple utilities will find themselves deployed on the Windows Store.  Major applications are going to stay on native Windows.  The reason being, Windows Store and Metro are, if I understand this correctly, strictly Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) based which runs off of DirectDraw.  That offers a lot of hardware capability not seen in a lot of desktop applications but at the same time, severe limitations (namely 3D).  The games that are practical in Windows Store are the likes of those found on tablets and phones (e.g Angry Birds), not full screen games like Skyrim, Metro 2033, and the lot.

Let's put it in perspective: bringing the Windows Store to desktops allows you access to most of the programs and features available on Windows Phone 7 while maintaining the capability to act like a desktop is expected to (Windows 7).  Yes, there's a learning curve but you're literally getting the best of both worlds.

Add to the fact that Metro lives on the .NET codebase allows Microsoft great flexibility in moving applications forward.  Old applications could easily be made to work with hardware that hasn't even been dreamt up yet.


So...I think people (Gabe included) need to take a "chill pill," let Windows come out in October, use it for a few weeks, then make up your mind.  This gush of prejudice happens with every Windows pre-release because Microsoft does pre-releases so developers can get their programs ready for it.

I think Microsoft could eliminate all this bad publicity if they required people to prove they need a pre-release version instead of making it available free to everyone.


----------



## Fragman (Jul 27, 2012)

W1zzard said:


> PS3 uses libGCM, which is what most games use. PS3 OpenGL is basically an emulation layer on top of libGCM, and developers don't like that.
> 
> I wonder how many of the "i would totally use linux for gaming" people have ever used linux. the gaming quality driver support is really bad.
> 
> Do you think AMD or NVIDIA will allocate resources for improving Linux drivers if they can't even update their WHQL Windows drivers for months, which is their core business.



Amd is starting to release linux drivers everytime they release windows drivers so there chance that they a getting betteræ.


----------



## hellrazor (Jul 27, 2012)

I think nVidia was releasing linux drivers at the same time as windows driver the last I checked. I could be wrong however.


----------



## Prima.Vera (Jul 27, 2012)

Latest OpenGL version is at least the same feature rich as DX11, so is all in the game producers hands now...(or pockets??)


----------



## W1zzard (Jul 27, 2012)

hellrazor said:


> I think nVidia was releasing linux drivers at the same time as windows driver the last I checked. I could be wrong however.



Linux x64 (AMD64/EM64T) Display Driver Version 295.59  
Release Date Mon Jun 11, 2012 
Operating System Linux 64-bit  
Language English (US) 

it does support GTX 600 though, my guess is without boost clocks



> Installation instructions: Once you have downloaded the driver, change to the directory containing the driver package and install the driver by running, as root, sh ./NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-295.59.run


how many of our users will be able to do that after they migrated to linux to play steam games?


----------



## Bundy (Jul 27, 2012)

W1zzard said:


> how many of our users will be able to do that after they migrated to linux to play steam games?



C'mon Wiz, I agree you are close to the truth, but also a bit hard. If Gabe wants to port to Linux, he is also going to pay for peops to lubricate the gears. Maybe you might get some?

For me, I'm totally bored with Windows and would love to run a linux gaming rig. More control, more hassles, more reasons to frequent tech forums - all the reasons I am a tech head. Bring it on Steam, bring it on.


----------



## hardcore_gamer (Jul 27, 2012)

Gabe Newell's words from PC gamer:

“Valve wouldn’t exist today without the PC,” he insisted, “or Epic, or Zynga, or Google. They all wouldn’t have existed without the openness of the platform. There’s a strong temptation to close the platform, because they look at what they can accomplish when they limit the competitors’ access to the platform, and they say, ‘That’s really exciting.’

“We are looking at the platform and saying, ‘We’ve been a free rider, and we’ve been able to benefit from everything that went into PCs and the Internet, and we have to continue to figure out how there will be open platforms.”


----------



## Quantos (Jul 27, 2012)

I can't really be sure how I feel about W8 before I actually use it, but my experience on the preview version wasn't very good. Metro simply doesn't look like it's mouse and keyboard friendly. Now, on a tablet or phone, it looks like it has a lot of potential. My greatest fear for W8 is that it will completely alienate business users. Some people I work with already have enough trouble using Windows XP, which is a UI that is quite user friendly, and which most people that use PCs have known for a while now. 

Now, perhaps some changes have been made since I tried the preview versions. That remains to be seen. Also, the OS itself underneath the UI seems very good. It's basically an optimized version of W7, which is already very good. 

What is means for gaming, though, I'm not sure. What I think Mr. Newell overlooks is that W8 might not be very important at all for Microsoft. W7 works very well right now, and there's really nothing that would force people to upgrade to W8. Microsoft might be actually using W8 as an experiment with a new UI, knowing very well that W7 is the fallback people are most likely to use should they not like it, not Linux or Mac.


----------



## kid41212003 (Jul 27, 2012)

I'm pretty sure it's not the UI here.

If I remember correctly, once W8 is released, you can't install Apps that have not been certified and bought/downloaded through the apps store.

To be able to be certified by MS, you will have to pay some kind of fees (pretty much like the App stores on smart phones/MAC).

You will have to "go around" to install un-certified apps, and that possibly will cut off a lot of customers and probably the majority of Windows users.


----------



## digibucc (Jul 27, 2012)

kid41212003 said:


> If I remember correctly, once W8 is released, you can't install Apps that have not been certified and bought/downloaded through the apps store.



that can't be right. I can see them trying to push that, but there is no way it will be as locked down as you make it sound. you will be able to install executeables you downloaded from your browser, for sure.




kid41212003 said:


> You will have to "go around" to install un-certified apps, and that possibly will cut off a lot of customers and probably the majority of Windows users.




maybe you'll have to find a work-around, but i would bet it'll simply be a system setting akin to and "install applications from other sources" setting, if even that is required.

don't get me wrong, if it is how you say that is ridiculous. i doubt it is though. that doesn't mean i doubt microsoft's intent, just their courage.


----------



## kid41212003 (Jul 27, 2012)

digibucc said:


> that can't be right. I can see them trying to push that, but there is no way it will be as locked down as you make it sound. you will be able to install executeables you downloaded from your browser, for sure.
> 
> maybe you'll have to find a work-around, but i would bet it'll simply be a system setting akin to and "install applications from other sources" setting, if even that is required.
> 
> don't get me wrong, if it is how you say that is ridiculous. i doubt it is though. that doesn't mean i doubt microsoft's intent, just their courage.



Yeah, i'm just trying to make it sounds like a catastrophe.


----------



## MarcusTaz (Jul 28, 2012)

1Kurgan1 said:


> My biggest problem is the UI, I simply won't switch. I already have an Android tablet, I don't need a UI like that for my PC.






precisely!!!


----------



## MarcusTaz (Jul 28, 2012)

alucasa said:


> Simple rule of MS.
> 
> Good OS -> Bad OS -> Good OS -> Bad OS -> Good OS and so on.
> 
> Windows 7 was good, so historically speaking, Windows 8 is bound to be a big poo.




hahahaha so true. Win 8 = Vista


----------



## Drone (Jul 28, 2012)

No. And I don't give a shit about what he/she says.


----------



## digibucc (Jul 28, 2012)

he/she? seriously?


----------



## Nordic (Jul 28, 2012)

digibucc said:


> he/she? seriously?


Although I was a little surprised myself for this mistake, but apparently Gabe could be short for a girls name too. I google searched and came up with the Olympian Gabrielle Douglas


----------



## Crap Daddy (Jul 28, 2012)

Well, Bill Gates is not worried. I just saw him live in London supporting the US swim team. 

The Chinese won...


----------



## Morgoth (Jul 28, 2012)

next time overclock those swimmers higher they are allready being watercooled
dutch out performed the amerikans


----------



## Drone (Jul 29, 2012)

digibucc said:


> he/she? seriously?



Yes absolutely seriously, why not? Never heard of them before. He's no Linus Torvalds, Bill Gates or Steve Jobs. Lol if Linus or Bill said that Windows 8 sucks then yes I'd have listened but not now.

And after some search I found, it's the same fat guy who in 2009 said that PS3 sucks.

http://www.1up.com/news/gabe-newell-ps3-total-disaster

I think that says a lot ...


----------



## Raw (Jul 29, 2012)

*So...he was right way back in 2009 too?*



Drone said:


> Yes absolutely seriously, why not? Never heard of them before. He's no Linus Torvalds, Bill Gates or Steve Jobs. Lol if Linus or Bill said that Windows 8 sucks then yes I'd have listened but not now.
> 
> And after some search I found, it's the same fat guy who in 2009 said that PS3 sucks.
> 
> ...



So...he was right way back in 2009 too? He's batting a 1000. And what does being *fat* have to do with being *smart*?


----------



## digibucc (Jul 29, 2012)

Drone said:


> it's the same fat guy who in 2009 said that PS3 sucks.
> 
> I think that says a lot ...



PS3 WAS a total disaster in 2009. even now it hasn't fully recovered. they had to take a loss on consoles sales just to gain enough market share to sell some games. he was absolutely right in 2009, and his concerns are absolutely valid now. 

we KNOW microsoft wants to close the platform
we KNOW that is bad for developers overall

where is the confusion? the exact level to which windows 8 will be locked down is unknown to us, i doubt it will be fully locked down but if it's enough to force even 10-20% of customers to microsft store, that is HUGE. maybe gabe knows more.


----------



## Drone (Jul 29, 2012)

digibucc said:


> we KNOW microsoft wants to close the platform
> we KNOW that is bad for developers overall
> 
> the exact level to which windows 8 will be locked down is unknown to us, i doubt it will be fully locked down but if it's enough to force even 10-20% of customers to microsft store, that is HUGE.



They don't close the platform. They just use the "unification" strategy. It's no longer news to anyone. They have Windows phone, Xbox and now they have Surface. It's understandable. Apple does it with their iOS, Google does it with their Android. And Windows was never that open in the first place. And what's so catastrophic about this? Applications that worked under 7 will most likely work under 8 and devs can always write their code for windows 8.

*IF* windows 8 gets totally locked down only *then* it'll be a catastrophe. And tbh it'll be a bigger catostrophe to Microsoft itself than its customers. People will switch to macs and nixes. And frankly Linux should have been much more popular than it is now, it's an awesome OS. Because of consumers' stupidity and vendors'/devs' greed Linux never got attention it really deserved.


----------



## Aceman.au (Jul 30, 2012)

Return the UI to old Start button style and bring in the performance numbers and then I'll consider even lookin @ W8


----------



## T4C Fantasy (Jul 30, 2012)

digibucc said:


> PS3 WAS a total disaster in 2009. even now it hasn't fully recovered. they had to take a loss on consoles sales just to gain enough market share to sell some games. he was absolutely right in 2009, and his concerns are absolutely valid now.
> 
> we KNOW microsoft wants to close the platform
> we KNOW that is bad for developers overall
> ...



the ps3 was never a total disaster, the ps3 has been keeping up with 360 sales since it came out, slightly more slighty less some years, gabe was wrong, he may not be wrong now but he was back in 2009, hes not an important enough figure to be listening to end of story. its all publicity

for the non gaming community windows 8 will be great


----------



## Frick (Jul 30, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> I think only cheap, simple utilities will find themselves deployed on the Windows Store.  Major applications are going to stay on native Windows.  The reason being, Windows Store and Metro are, if I understand this correctly, strictly Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) based which runs off of DirectDraw.  That offers a lot of hardware capability not seen in a lot of desktop applications but at the same time, severe limitations (namely 3D).  The games that are practical in Windows Store are the likes of those found on tablets and phones (e.g Angry Birds), not full screen games like Skyrim, Metro 2033, and the lot.
> 
> Let's put it in perspective: bringing the Windows Store to desktops allows you access to most of the programs and features available on Windows Phone 7 while maintaining the capability to act like a desktop is expected to (Windows 7).  Yes, there's a learning curve but you're literally getting the best of both worlds.
> 
> ...



This is how I understand it as well. Good for "apps" and suchlike, applications and programs will be the same.



T4C Fantasy said:


> for the non gaming community windows 8 will be great



Makes no sense. If anyone suffers from Win8, it's professionals with multiple hi res monitors that spends a lot of time in the OS. Since when do gamers actually care about anything beyond performance and launching games?


----------



## hellrazor (Jul 30, 2012)

Frick said:


> Makes no sense. If anyone suffers from Win8, it's professionals with multiple hi res monitors that spends a lot of time in the OS. Since when do gamers actually care about anything beyond performance and launching games?



Last I checked those two categories shared a lot of people.


----------



## Frick (Jul 30, 2012)

hellrazor said:


> Last I checked those two categories shared a lot of people.



Good point, but my point still stands. The gamer doesn't care.


----------



## Nordic (Jul 30, 2012)

T4C Fantasy said:


> the ps3 was never a total disaster, the ps3 has been keeping up with 360 sales since it came out, slightly more slighty less some years, gabe was wrong, he may not be wrong now but he was back in 2009, hes not an important enough figure to be listening to end of story. its all publicity
> 
> for the non gaming community windows 8 will be great


We have pretty much have 4 pages of hate here alone, not to mention the other threads.
...I think there are some gamers here...


----------



## Drone (Jul 30, 2012)

T4C Fantasy said:


> the ps3 was never a total disaster, the ps3 has been keeping up with 360 sales since it came out, slightly more slighty less some years, gabe was wrong, he may not be wrong now but he was back in 2009, hes not an important enough figure to be listening to end of story. its all publicity


Well said. After all the asslickery and hypocricy here and in the media, reading something sane is always good. 



> for the non gaming community windows 8 will be great


Yes and no. Windows 8 has a good multi monitor support which is good for gamers and for professionals. Windows 8 UI won't hinder gaming anyway, when you play you don't see metro lol. And if it's true that HALO 4 comes to Surface then HALO fans can even jump on Surface which runs W8 pro or Windows RT.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/18/microsoft-surface-tablets-the-differences-between-rt-and-window/


----------



## T4C Fantasy (Jul 30, 2012)

Frick said:


> This is how I understand it as well. Good for "apps" and suchlike, applications and programs will be the same.
> 
> 
> 
> Makes no sense. If anyone suffers from Win8, it's professionals with multiple hi res monitors that spends a lot of time in the OS. Since when do gamers actually care about anything beyond performance and launching games?



since gamers that like MUD based RPGs or sprite based games wont work correctly in windows 8, btw professionals will like windows 8 more than 7 because of its intergrated mobile apps into the desktop platform and building mobile apps  is getting more and more popular, literally millions build apps for mobile devices, windows 8 with visual studio and a few SDKs will be MUCH better than windows 7, better productivity equals more money.


----------



## Nordic (Jul 30, 2012)

T4C Fantasy said:


> since gamers that like MUD based RPGs or sprite based games wont work correctly in windows 8, btw professionals will like windows 8 more than 7 because of its intergrated mobile apps into the desktop platform and building mobile apps  is getting more and more popular, literally millions build apps for mobile devices, windows 8 with visual studio and a few SDKs will be MUCH better than windows 7, better productivity equals more money.



Professionals is a pretty broad word


----------



## T4C Fantasy (Jul 30, 2012)

james888 said:


> Professionals is a pretty broad word



i didnt mean it in "THAT" kind of a context, i meant that  w/e you want to call them, coding enthusiasts, coders/programmers/dingleberries


----------



## Frick (Jul 30, 2012)

T4C Fantasy said:


> since gamers that like MUD based RPGs or sprite based games wont work correctly in windows 8, btw professionals will like windows 8 more than 7 because of its intergrated mobile apps into the desktop platform and building mobile apps  is getting more and more popular, literally millions build apps for mobile devices, windows 8 with visual studio and a few SDKs will be MUCH better than windows 7, better productivity equals more money.



Wait why will MUDs and sprite games not work? And how many gamers still play MUDs?


----------



## T4C Fantasy (Jul 30, 2012)

Frick said:


> Wait why will MUDs and sprite games not work? And how many gamers still play MUDs?



i still play MUDs, in windows 8 the sprites of games are all scrambled ive tested this myself with build 8400  hopefully its fixed in the final but if it isnt then gamers will not like it


----------



## bpgt64 (Jul 30, 2012)

Been playing lots of games on the latest build of Window's 8.  The biggest problem I have had was forgetting to take ownership of the Drive with Steam on it.  Once I did that, everything ran like butta.  DRM is more of an issue, as I had to re-activate GTA IV, and a few others.


----------



## devguy (Jul 30, 2012)

In case you guys haven't seen this, it doesn't seem like Blizzard has a very differing opinion from Valve...

But I find it strange that Blizzard has had a working Linux version of WoW for some time, but never released it.  Why?  And will they release it now?


----------



## WarraWarra (Jul 30, 2012)

It is the same Win 2000 / Win Vista / Win 8 disaster cycle so why would I even bother to look at it.
It was irritating enough to switch to Win 7 and I still prefer Win XP SP3 much more than Win7.

I agree with the fat guy OP if I wanted to cloud everything and loose my data I would and if the internet in the USA was capable of properly handling a skype video conference then sure cloud it. 

Everyone knows the internet with more user will get more shitty so cloud anything will get worse and no one has the cash or the competence to do anything worthwhile to upgrade the infrastructure unless you stay in "Internet Heaven EU / Japan" vs 3rd world primitive USA internet.

Their migration to Win8 and the millions of problems that Win8 will have is not worth it so they might as well skip to Win9.
Win7 is irritating enough but okay for now and just got used to it / can finally use it for more than 20 days on my new pc without having to formatting the hard drive so why change to another useless Microsoft product ?

And NO the NSA "Microsoft / facebook" is not reasons enough to make me change plus the economy will crash again before 2013.


----------



## Frick (Jul 30, 2012)

WarraWarra said:


> It is the same Win 2000 / Win Vista / Win 8 disaster cycle so why would I even bother to look at it.
> It was irritating enough to switch to Win 7 and I still prefer Win XP SP3 much more than Win7.



Win2K was awesome, and you have to get with the times wether you like it or not. Using XP nowadays feels like a huge step backwards in everthing. Or maybe you are one of those people who hate all change (I'm like that in some ways) for no good reason. If so you have no say in the matter.

And if you're having issues with Win7 it's either driver error or third party. It is quite rock solid, probably the most stable of MS OS's.


----------



## Ravenas (Jul 30, 2012)

T4C Fantasy said:


> hes not an important enough figure to be listening to end of story. its all publicity



Is Rob Pardo?



> Rob Pardo, the executive vice president of game design at the Diablo 3 studio, quoted Newell's comments on his personal twitter account before adding that Windows 8 is "not awesome for Blizzard either".



http://www.computerandvideogames.com/360383/blizzard-exec-echoes-windows-8-catastrophe-comments/


Besides the fact that ~75% of users agree on this forum and the fact that most of the game industry AND media agrees with Gabe Newell, I think you are way out of touch. Furthermore, who are you to say that Gabe Newell "hes not an important enough figure to be listening to end of story."

I mean good God if the president and co-founder of Valve, owner of steam and other best selling PC titles isn't important enough of a figure in your mind, well the who the hell is, and furthermore, who the hell are you? Lol...


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jul 30, 2012)

Ravenas said:


> Is Rob Pardo?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol if you can't see why Gabe said any of that you are blind. There is nothing wrong with Windows 8 just a bunch of kitty cats scared of a lil' change.


----------



## naoan (Jul 30, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Lol if you can't see why Gabe said any of that you are blind. There is nothing wrong with Windows 8 just a bunch of kitty cats scared of a lil' change.



Because people who dare and care enough to install a beta OS is afraid of change.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jul 30, 2012)

naoan said:


> Because people who dare and care enough to install a beta OS is afraid of change.



People on here just want the same thing but faster. Anything they might have to learn new is deemed "bad". The mob mentality on this forum should be a study in humanity. Very few free thinkers on here.


----------



## Ravenas (Jul 30, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> People on here just want the same thing but faster. Anything they might have to learn new is deemed "bad". The mob mentality on this forum should be a study in humanity. Very few free thinkers on here.





Yeah you need to be a big free thinker to think Windows 8 is good.




TheMailMan78 said:


> Lol if you can't see why Gabe said any of that you are blind. There is nothing wrong with Windows 8 just a bunch of kitty cats scared of a lil' change.



I swear I think your internal HDD resets everyday.


----------



## Crap Daddy (Jul 30, 2012)

Ravenas said:


> Yeah you need to be a big free thinker to think Windows 8 is good.



Have you personally used Windows 8? If so, apart from that one mouse click that's needed to get you to desktop what else bothers you?


----------



## T4C Fantasy (Jul 30, 2012)

Ravenas said:


> Is Rob Pardo?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



its all publicity.... they probably do want linux to thrive... but in all honesty.. we dont need linux for desktop use.. we have windows which is much  better than linux for the desktop... but back to windows 8, everyone on the forum that agrees with gabe obviously does not have all of their facts straight.. this is another example of following the crowd, i dont listen to other people because i know what to look for.  the only reason why i believe windows 8 will not be successful to the gamers is to the gamers who play Sprite based games and MUDs.. appearently noone else has problems with modern games so its ok, but theres alot of us who play old games. w/e reason gabe or rob has for windows 8 being a failure  to the gaming community has no truth to it because they dont know what they are talking about.


----------



## Frick (Jul 30, 2012)

Ravenas said:


> Yeah you need to be a big free thinker to think Windows 8 is good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I swear I think you don't pass POST.


----------



## T4C Fantasy (Jul 30, 2012)

Frick said:


> I swear I think you don't pass POST.



people just need to chill and realize if they want to stay on windows 7 they can... i will be one of the people who dual boot until the classic gaming compatibility gets fixed. windows 8 will be one of those os's that once you get used to it it will probably make you unleash terribly good things in your pants.


----------



## Nordic (Jul 31, 2012)

T4C Fantasy said:


> its all publicity.... they probably do want linux to thrive... but in all honesty.. we dont need linux for desktop use.. we have windows which is much  better than linux for the desktop... but back to windows 8, everyone on the forum that agrees with gabe obviously does not have all of their facts straight..



Windows, osx, and linux... which one is better for the desktop is a manner of *opinion*. Linux is just as functional, and even better, than windows in most cases in my opinion. It just lacks the support that windows gets from being mainstream.


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## Ravenas (Jul 31, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxmIsv88xO4&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## naoan (Jul 31, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> People on here just want the same thing but faster. Anything they might have to learn new is deemed "bad". The mob mentality on this forum should be a study in humanity. Very few free thinkers on here.



So you mean to say that *anything* as long as it's new, no matter how slow it made you be and halt productivity to a crawl (this is a hyperbole if anyone missed it btw) even after you master it, is the way of humanity?

If that's not what people call mob mentality, I dunno what is (oh the irony).


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## Frick (Jul 31, 2012)

naoan said:


> So you mean to say that *anything* as long as it's new, no matter how slow it made you be and halt productivity to a crawl (this is a hyperbole if anyone missed it btw) even after you master it, is the way of humanity?
> 
> If that's not what people call mob mentality, I dunno what is (oh the irony).



What he's saying is that it's the same with Vista: people hate on it for the sake of hate, because it's the "right" thing to do.


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## naoan (Jul 31, 2012)

Frick said:


> What he's saying is that it's the same with Vista: people hate on it for the sake of hate, because it's the "right" thing to do.



Right, forget all those valid use case complaint numerous users expressed, ranging from your illiterate grandpa to IT admins and just call them haters, easy enough. 

Also, as much as I like Vista (I used it until 7 came), it does have a very bad start and that leaves bitter taste for many. Of course if you use it today with latest hardware and update you're not gonna see why it was hated back then.


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## Nordic (Jul 31, 2012)

Frick said:


> What he's saying is that it's the same with Vista: people hate on it for the sake of hate, because it's the "right" thing to do.



I never hated vista ever. That was me. Windows 8 adds some cool stuff under the hood, adds some uber annoying things, and adds cloud integration I really don't want.


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## Xzibit (Jul 31, 2012)

I feel like I read a totaly different article then 99% of you.

He was addressing the fact that user input device is headed for a change and thus will be a Catastrophe since users will move towards the new input devices and not be compatible with his games.  The whole hitting on margins and OEMs dropping is a referance to that.

He just seams bitter.  Technology is ever evolving and he points it out that he has to diversify to stay with the times and in the same paraghraph complains about doing just that because it hurts margins.

Simple solution. Develope games to be played with the evolving inputs like touchscreen and such. 

There going to be doing it anyways on a small scale with mobile but hes just throwing a hissy fit that Windows 8 users might adapt a new input device and there game wont be used by that user since hes not using a KB & Mouse.

All about money.


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## Nordic (Jul 31, 2012)

Xzibit said:


> I feel like I read a totaly different article then 99% of you.
> 
> He was addressing the fact that user input device is headed for a change and thus will be a Catastrophe since users will move towards the new input devices and not be compatible with his games.  The whole hitting on margins and OEMs dropping is a referance to that.
> 
> ...


Lets play an fps. You use a touch screen, I will use my mouse and keyboard. Touchscreens are great for some things but not everything. You are right in that a lot of the griping here, even my own, has nothing to do with gaming.


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## Xzibit (Jul 31, 2012)

james888 said:


> Lets play an fps. You use a touch screen, I will use my mouse and keyboard. Touchscreens are great for some things but not everything. You are right in that a lot of the griping here, even my own, has nothing to do with gaming.



Thats the thing I found so funny when he referance Linux above it.  How things need to be open and such for inovation to thrive.

New inputs to interact with and now he either think people will be too dumb to know which inputs work best with what game or he just want to make Kb & Mouse games and have a closed OS on those two inputs alone. The Irony..


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## Nordic (Jul 31, 2012)

Xzibit said:


> Thats the thing I found so funny when he referance Linux above it.  How things need to be open and such for inovation to thrive.
> 
> New inputs to interact with and now he either think people will be too dumb to know which inputs work best with what game or he just want to make Kb & Mouse games and have a closed OS on those two inputs alone. The Irony..



No matter the reasoning, I am happy steam is going to linux. Even if the results are lack luster.


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## Frick (Jul 31, 2012)

naoan said:


> Right, forget all those valid use case complaint numerous users expressed, ranging from your illiterate grandpa to IT admins and just call them haters, easy enough.



There were problems, but most of them were not related to Vista as such, it had more to do with hardware and drivers and the like. And you cannot ignore that it was hated for the sake of hate. I didn't say *everyone *hated it, but a lot of people did for no real reason.

It's like Windows 8. People look at it and go "uuuugggghhhhh were's my start button i'm blind". Some people actually use it and find it does cramp their style, those complaints are very fair. But it feels like a lot of people that try it have decided they don't like it before they try it.


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## Prima.Vera (Aug 1, 2012)

Man you have a short memory.
I used to run Win XP on 32MB of RAM without an issue. When Vista came, I had to buy 4GB of RAM just to run the same as XP on 256MB. So?


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