# New Mini-Tower Build



## Oldgeek (Feb 9, 2014)

I found this forum in a Google search because of a build I am considering. I have always wanted an ATX mini-tower super computer for the kind of semi-portable setup that is a little more serious than you would use a laptop for. I want to use the Coolermaster Elite 343 (USB 3.0), with the best Asus mobo and i7. I haven't built a machine for 5 or 6 years (no $), but it's always an itch.

My two previous builds were 939s. Both Coolermaster and Asus. My own personal build was an A8N-SLI 32 Deluxe, with an Opteron 165, and the other was an A8N-E with a 3200 (now the family computer).

So for the mini-tower, I was thinking of the Asus Sabertooth Z87 with an i7 quad and 32gb of Corsair RAM, but I kept looking around and saw the 2011 socket, and found the X79, so my choices became more complicated.

I'm not a gamer or an OCer, but I do enjoy video editing. Overkill gives me a sense of security in just knowing that I won't have to upgrade when something new comes around that I would like to do with my rig. Room to grow is always nice. I like the idea of having 32gigs of RAM knowing that I'm only using 8, or 16.

The 3200 I am using to type this has only 1GB of RAM (we all hate it). Another 3 are on their way from Hong Kong (I will buy a 4400 later). I don't want to have to do this again with the build I am considering. We only have to do these things when we cheap out on a build.

Having said all that, I know very little about 1150 or 2011, or the i7 procs for either. What I want is a blazing fast, jaw-dropping monster rig in a little box that nobody will notice is in the room unless I point it out to them. Kind of an unassuming Veyron, if you know what I mean.

I would like to spend up to $2,500 for this rig.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Feb 9, 2014)

$2.5k and you are not a gamer or overclocker, serious overkill. you can probs build one for your needs for $800


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## Oldgeek (Feb 9, 2014)

I know, Tigger. You're right. I'm just trying to put a high ceiling on it. I doubt I would go that high.

The case is $50, the Z87 is $250 or less, the i7 is $330, the RAM is $350... and that's about half done. $800 would not build a rig as I described above.

I'm considering any of these.


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## Arjai (Feb 9, 2014)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233306

2133, with CAS 9?

This is the stuff!!!


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## Oldgeek (Feb 9, 2014)

That looks like a great set, Arjai. I'm really out of the loop now. It's been so long since I've built. My Opteron rig has a pair of 1gb OCZ Platinums with a latency of 2-3-2-5. The set retailed for around $260. This is from 2006, but were probably released a couple of years previous. I'll have to read up on RAM again. The numbers used today are Greek to me. Now it looks like the higher the number, the higher the quality.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Feb 9, 2014)

Oldgeek said:


> That looks like a great set, Arjai. I'm really out of the loop now. It's been so long since I've built. My Opteron rig has a pair of 1gb OCZ Platinums with a latency of 2-3-2-5. The set retailed for around $260. This is from 2006, but were probably released a couple of years previous. I'll have to read up on RAM again. The numbers used today are Greek to me. Now it looks like the higher the numer, the higher the quality.



The higher the number, the higher the speed they will run at, DDR3 run at higher latency than DDR2 or 1. The speed they run at does not really denote quality, that's down to how good the brand is I guess.


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## Oldgeek (Feb 9, 2014)

When RAM was rated like my OCZ (2-3-2-5) the lower the number, the higher the quality. Am I right? So they changed how RAM is rated. I have to read about the basics of RAM again. Would you recommend AnandTech?


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## Deleted member 24505 (Feb 9, 2014)

Oldgeek said:


> When RAM was rated like my OCZ (2-3-2-5) the lower the number, the higher the quality. Am I right? So they changed how RAM is rated. I have to read about the basics of RAM again. Would you recommend AnandTech?



AnandTech is ok. 

DDR3 does not seem to run at the tight latency settings like it did with DDR1/2 so i don't think them numbers matter so much, personally i don't really think the speed does either ie 2133/1333 etc.

My 2500k is oc'd to 4.6 with my ram stock at 1333, and i don't see any downside myself. Sometimes i think people only buy the uber 2133 etc ram for epeen, but each to their wallet i guess.


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## Arjai (Feb 9, 2014)

tigger said:


> AnandTech is ok.
> 
> DDR3 does not seem to run at the tight latency settings like it did with DDR1/2 so i don't think them numbers matter so much, personally i don't really think the speed does either ie 2133/1333 etc.
> 
> My 2500k is oc'd to 4.6 with my ram stock at 1333, and i don't see any downside myself. Sometimes i think people only buy the uber 2133 etc ram for epeen, but each to their wallet i guess.


He said he does some video stuff, I am of the belief that 1600 is as fast as any normal human would need, however, I understand that video rendering works well with faster RAM and, he mentioned being a bit, "Future Proof".

When DDR4 finally hits, that 2133, stock, will still be very competitive. I believe.
I also believe there are a bunch of epeen-ers out there benchmarking for the sake of it. I O/Ced my Socket A for the FUN of it going faster, crunching better, etc.

Blah, Blah, anyways, @Oldgeek , a few links to read up! 

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviewdb/Memory/DDR3/

http://archive.benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=174&itemid=1  This is a good one

http://reviews.cnet.com/ram-memory/?filter=500056_13056236_


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## Oldgeek (Feb 9, 2014)

Thank you for the references. I have a lot to learn - again. Things have changed. Here is the RAM in my Opteron rig. I only post this to show that this is what I know, and that it is far different from current systems.

I swear, I will never, ever, ever build a rig that is 'good enough for what I need.' That is nothing but a 6 foot ceiling for a guy who is 5' 10". You may as well not build. Just go buy a laptop. 'Good enough for what you need' guarantees that videos will be slide shows, programs will freeze, and in the not-too-distant-future you can click on a link and then go make coffee and toast, and when you come back, the link MIGHT have finished loading. I have lived with that far too much. A quality product must be overbuilt to perform sufficiently. That means 8gb of RAM when you need 4. 'Good enough for what you need' is only good enough for today. I build for tomorrow.


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## Hood (Feb 9, 2014)

Oldgeek said:


> When RAM was rated like my OCZ (2-3-2-5) the lower the number, the higher the quality. Am I right? So they changed how RAM is rated. I have to read about the basics of RAM again. Would you recommend AnandTech?


Is that supposed to be a joke?  What's wrong with TPU that that you'd descend to the likes of Anand Shimpi's vanity review site?  If we can't answer it, it shouldn't be asked!  FYI - DDR3 ranges from speeds of 1066 MHz to 3200 at the extreme end.  CAS latencies can be as low as 7 and as high as 12.  The sweet spot now is 2133 or 2400, prices are similar to 1600 sticks.  From 2600 on up the price is very steep for very little gain, reliability and system stability suffers, and motherboard compatibility issues abound.  I'm running 2400 RAM on my Ivy Bridge system and my Haswell rig with great success, for about $8.50/GB  However, running high densities (such as 32 GB or 64 GB) it's even more sensitive to stability issues at higher frequencies, plus you may have to RMA a motherboard or two before you get one that will run all 4 or 8 slots at once at full density.  On top Haswell CPUs you'd be okay with 2133 sticks at whatever latency you can afford, but with X79 you're safer at 1600 at those densities, but remember it's quad channel (with 4 or 8 sticks) so your throughput is theoretically doubled.  Once you decide on your platform, the total amount of RAM, and the frequency desired, you can compare prices or reviews about the low latency and low voltage stuff.  At high densities you should always consult your motherboard's latest memory QVL for kit model #s that have passed testing on that board, or ask for specific info from other users on this site.


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## Arjai (Feb 9, 2014)

Oldgeek said:


> Thank you for the references. I have a lot to learn - again. Things have changed. Here is the RAM in my Opteron rig. I only post this to show that this is what I know, and that it is far different from current systems.


That RAM was the shizzle, back in the day!


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## Oldgeek (Feb 9, 2014)

Arjai said:


> That RAM was the shizzle, back in the day!


 
...and I was quite proud of it, when I built it! 2gb was impressive - in 2006. I always figured I'd buy another pair, but I never did. Remember Corsair had a set with LED lights on them? They were expensive. My OCZ was overkill for my use. I'm sad to see them go. Some horrible business decisions there.


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## Oldgeek (Feb 9, 2014)

It looks like I mismatched a board and case. The TUF Sabertooth is a full ATX. The microATX would be the Maximus VI. The Gryphon is a minimalist board. I'm sure it's a great board, but it's hard for me to warm up to anything minimalist.


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## BiggieShady (Feb 9, 2014)

Oldgeek said:


> It looks like I mismatched a board and case. The TUF Sabertooth is a full ATX. The microATX would be the Maximus VI. The Gryphon is a minimalist board. I'm sure it's a great board, but it's hard for me to warm up to anything minimalist.



Asus ROG Maximus VI Gene or Asus Gryphon ... if you plan to overclock or use onboard audio, go with Gene


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## Devon68 (Feb 9, 2014)

Maybe something like this but it isn't cheap.
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2Q5iz


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## BiggieShady (Feb 9, 2014)

Devon68 said:


> Maybe something like this but it isn't cheap.
> http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2Q5iz



Caviar Blue instead of green and smaller case because that is the requirement from OP. Like Bitfenix Prodigy M:


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## Devon68 (Feb 9, 2014)

> Caviar Blue instead of green and smaller case because that is the requirement from OP. Like Bitfenix Prodigy M:


Is there a WD blue 2TB drive?Well maybe a seagate then. I used the NZXT because he sad:


> The case is $50, the Z87 is $250 or less, the i7 is $330, the RAM is $350... and that's about half done. $800 would not build a rig as I described above.


I have to agree this Bitfenix case would look a lot better than the NZXT.


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## thebluebumblebee (Feb 9, 2014)

Oldgeek said:


> I swear, I will never, ever, ever build a rig that is 'good enough for what I need.' That is nothing but a 6 foot ceiling for a guy who is 5' 10". You may as well not build. Just go buy a laptop. 'Good enough for what you need' guarantees that videos will be slide shows, programs will freeze, and in the not-too-distant-future you can click on a link and then go make coffee and toast, and when you come back, the link MIGHT have finished loading. I have lived with that far too much. A quality product must be overbuilt to perform sufficiently. That means 8gb of RAM when you need 4. 'Good enough for what you need' is only good enough for today. I build for tomorrow.



You don't have to convince us that buying just good enough for what you need is the wrong answer, but buying a computer on specs alone, and buying simply based on those without understanding what they mean is a quick way to get separated from a lot of money for no real benefit.  IMHO, the 2011 systems are for a very few people and overkill for the rest of us.  Also, that X79 chipset is ancient in today's world.  Here are a few thoughts:
-Unless you've gotten to use an up to date system, you have no idea how fast they are, coming from what you have.  Check my specs, I'm still using my X2 4400+.
-I suggest building a 7/8 scale system.  Building a bleeding edge system wastes money, even in the long run.
-Have you thought about building a quiet system?  It's relatively easy today.

If you want me to make specific suggestions, let me know.  I'm off to take pictures of the snow before it disappears.


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## BiggieShady (Feb 9, 2014)

Devon68 said:


> Is there a WD blue 2TB drive?



Oddly enough there's not, you are right ... in that case WD Black would be my choice.



Devon68 said:


> I have to agree this Bitfenix case would look a lot better than the NZXT.



Yeah, too bad the only m-ATX case from NZXT is ugly-ish


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## Oldgeek (Feb 9, 2014)

Thank you for all the suggestions. It is very helpful. The more research I do, the more the price becomes reasonable. As I said, I have no interest in OC or gaming, so I'm considering the H87M-Pro. It has no OC ability, but a lot of connectivity, which is highly important, and why I have little interest in the Gryphon. The H87M-Pro has features the Z87M-PLUS, and lacks some that the Z87M has, but the Z87M is equipped for OC and gaming. It is just not as equipped as the Maximus VI.

I considered AMD, but the Asus boards lack USB 3.0 support, compared to 1150 boards. I am surprised at the low price of the H87M. Case/board/proc comes to $500. This could be $1000 build.

This leads me to think that some RAM sets could easily be beyond the capability of this build. I'm still leaning toward 32gb, the max for the H87M.


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## thebluebumblebee (Feb 9, 2014)

You will also want to get a SSD.  I'd recommend a 240 GB (256GB "class) and the Crucial M500 is selling for $130 now.  I like the 2TB Seagate HDD as a storage drive.  

If you really want the box that no one sees: http://www.gigabyte.com/press-center/news-page.aspx?nid=1262


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## Norton (Feb 9, 2014)

If you want to do video editing, contact this guy about his server (nearly everything is there... including a nice case for under 1/3 of your budget)

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/t...ram-seasonic-psu-fractal-r3-case-more.197258/

This will give you a couple of generations of upgrades w/o having to replace the board and up to 16 cores to work with.


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## Oldgeek (Feb 9, 2014)

thebluebumblebee said:


> You will also want to get a SSD.  I'd recommend a 240 GB (256GB "class) and the Crucial M500 is selling for $130 now.  I like the 2TB Seagate HDD as a storage drive.
> 
> If you really want the box that no one sees: http://www.gigabyte.com/press-center/news-page.aspx?nid=1262


Thanks for the tip. I really like that case. That could be a secondary PC with a designated purpose. I still want a DVD or BluRay drive.

The SSD is one of the last things on the list. I had already settled on a Seagate hybrid.


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## Arjai (Feb 9, 2014)

If I read you correctly, this is what I think you might like, and a little of what I like.
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2QcwK

The SSD's set up in raid, HDD for big stuffs.
The case is a personal choice, as most cases should be, but you might also like it, it's ok, I won't mind. 
Here's a link, for a good look at it: http://www.aerocool.us/ds/ds_black.html
I added the wireless adapter because, well, it's a good one and you never know. Maybe you want to bring it somewhere, or move to another room, without dragging a cord along.

The CPU cooler, it's a Zalman, so it is good looking and functional. It also is not an EVO, in case you are sick of them, I'm not but, I have seen enough of them around, this one is not like that.

The R9 290x...It's spendy but, even the Green Team is wondering if this might be something they want. Mantle...anyone? 

WIN 8 because it isn't 8.1, but is a very nice streamlined OS. 8.1 is something to get to once you've toyed with 8. I think that will be the only way to appreciate 8.1 and 8.1 is still having a few driver stuffs. By the time you are ready for it, should be fixed.

OK, there it is. Love it or Hate it. I would build this if I could, and it would be cool, you all know it!


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## thebluebumblebee (Feb 9, 2014)

Oldgeek said:


> The SSD is one of the last things on the list. I had already settled on a Seagate hybrid.


Wait, I'm confused.  You just went from "balls to the wall" to "good enough".  The price for SSD's has fallen to the point where, IMHO, it does not make sense (or is that cents) to build a system without one.  A 2 TB hybrid drive is roughly the same price as the SSD I pointed out.
BTW, where are you planning on making your purchases?  Are you near a Microcenter?


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## BigBoi (Feb 9, 2014)

Oldgeek said:


> Thank you for the references. I have a lot to learn - again. Things have changed. Here is the RAM in my Opteron rig. I only post this to show that this is what I know, and that it is far different from current systems.
> 
> I swear, I will never, ever, ever build a rig that is 'good enough for what I need.' That is nothing but a 6 foot ceiling for a guy who is 5' 10". You may as well not build. Just go buy a laptop. 'Good enough for what you need' guarantees that videos will be slide shows, programs will freeze, and in the not-too-distant-future you can click on a link and then go make coffee and toast, and when you come back, the link MIGHT have finished loading. I have lived with that far too much. A quality product must be overbuilt to perform sufficiently. That means 8gb of RAM when you need 4. 'Good enough for what you need' is only good enough for today. I build for tomorrow.



This!

Very well said


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## TRWOV (Feb 9, 2014)

How does this look to you:

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=29687667

The 780 is the current bang for the buck high end card IMO. 

I'm also inclined to get an SSD for OS and a drive for files.


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## thebluebumblebee (Feb 9, 2014)

Arjai said:


> If I read you correctly, this is what I think you might like, and a little of what I like.
> 
> The R9 290x...It's spendy but, even the Green Team is wondering if this might be something they want. Mantle...anyone?





TRWOV said:


> How does this look to you:
> 
> http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=29687667
> 
> ...


 Why does he need a high end GPU????????


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## TRWOV (Feb 9, 2014)

ow, sorry, didn't see he was not going to game... wel, an R7 240 is it then.

list updated:

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=29687667


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## BiggieShady (Feb 9, 2014)

thebluebumblebee said:


> Why does he need a high end GPU????????








Because he is building for the world of tomorrow.


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## Arjai (Feb 9, 2014)

thebluebumblebee said:


> Why does he need a high end GPU????????



When you build for tomorrow, one plans for all eventualities... (Evil Laugh)


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## silentbogo (Feb 9, 2014)

I still have a similar rig i've built when i7 just came out. It totaled less than $1600 at the time with 23" LCD monitor, Logitech G15 keyboard and G9 mouse, $100 speakers and a WiFi Router!
As it goes for mini-ATX rigs, they offer plenty of space for all the basic hardware. In order to increase HDD performance, drop the 2TB drive and get two 1TB instead. Put them in RAID-0 and enjoy the ride. 
From my personal experience I can tell that high-end super-expensive ROG motherboards from ASUS are overrated. You are paying double for a cool sticker and a couple of features that you'll never use. Better switch to something solid like GIGABYTE GA-Z87MX-D3H. Also according to your build you are trying to cram ATX motherboard into micro-ATX case.
Since you are using only one videocard, you can afford something better. At least get R7 260.
Regarding future upgrades i wold recommend to switch your 4x4GB RAM set to 2x8GB set. It gives the same amount of memory for the same amount of money, but leaves 2 slots available for the bright future.
If you are planning to use SSD just for storage and programs, 480GB is a bit much. But i'm no expert in these questions since the biggest SSD I had was 32GB on my EEE PC...
Also don't forget to include PSU and Wireless card(if needed).


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## Oldgeek (Feb 10, 2014)

I love that case, Arjai! That might even be better than a Coolermaster Elite. I would go with the burner and the multi-card reader. Massive connectivity gets me all excited!


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## Oldgeek (Feb 10, 2014)

It's been said here before, and I'll admit it, because I haven't built for 6 years, I don't know enough about current technology to know how much is 'good enough.' When I say 'good enough', I mean half-way between what I'm actually going to use in the next year or two, and extreme gaming. I figure 50% excess is good overkill. That means no 2011, but an 1150 with $300 RAM (or better), and an equal GPU. IMHO, Google Earth should never, ever have a 1/2 second lag. Neither should a Youtube video, nor a video played from a local drive.

Put it this way, this family computer has an Asus A8N-E. I built it for my mom, who only wanted to read email and buy airline tickets online. It has 4 DIMM slots, and is made for a dual-core CPU. Now I will add one gig of RAM and have two, and then buy a 4400 or 4800 and add two more. So here is the question: did I waste money on this MB? Most 'normal' people would have bought a single-core board with two DIMM slots. This is DDR 400. If I bought a lesser board, what would I do today?

This is what must be considered when choosing parts. A lot of guys will build for 2 or 3 years because they will sell or scrap their rig and build a new one. That's not my style. I want to build for 10 years.


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## TRWOV (Feb 10, 2014)

So a $300 GPU and $300 worth of RAM?





http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=29687667


270X isn't a $300 GPU but you'd have to jump to $400 for the next performance bracket. Since you say video editing is important to consider I'd go for a Radeon due to their OpenCL performance.

32GB of RAM should be more than enough. I have _just _16GB and havent hit the pagefile once in like forever.

480GB SSD for all your programs and a buttload of games. 2TB hard disc for your files. 


If you don't _need_ a GPU right now. You could skip it and get by with the CPU integrated graphics. and slash quite a bit of money The 4770K's IGP is quite capable for everyday stuff and even some gaming in low to mid settings.


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## Oldgeek (Feb 10, 2014)

silentbogo said:


> Also according to your build you are trying to cram ATX motherboard into micro-ATX case.


 I think you are referring to my earlier, but mistaken, interest in the Sabertooth. I posted above that I realized the Sabertooth was an ATX, and then I referred to the H87M, which is mATX.


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## silentbogo (Feb 10, 2014)

I was talkinig about Maximus IV Extreme in the newegg list, that was there before Maximus IV GENE. Either way it's a waste of money. $100 motherboard on the same chipset will provide the same performance with almost all the features.


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## thebluebumblebee (Feb 10, 2014)

@Oldgeek, may I make a suggestion?  Go back to the OP (Original Post) and strike through those items that you have changed your mind on. (don't delete them, as that makes the thread confusing) It would also be nice for you to make a list of what items you are considering.


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## Oldgeek (Feb 11, 2014)

silentbogo said:


> I was talkinig about Maximus IV Extreme in the newegg list, that was there before Maximus IV GENE. Either way it's a waste of money. $100 motherboard on the same chipset will provide the same performance with almost all the features.


 There is a Maximus mATX, is there not? I'm sure I saw one. Anyway, it doesn't interest me. I'm pretty much settled on the H87M. I've compared all 1150 Asus mATX boards, and that seems to be the best choice. There are a lot of features I don't understand, but from what I do understand, it looks good.

USB 3.0 is important, OC capability is not. There are some features that the other similar board has that I like, but you can't have everything. The Maximus seems too gimicky to me.

You lost me on your comment about a $100 board. I judge by price too much. I have to stop doing that. When I look at the H87M price, something tells me it's mediocre and I should buy a more expensive one. I think I paid $230 for my A8N-SLI 32 Deluxe, but I shouldn't be going by that.


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## silentbogo (Feb 11, 2014)

That's the most peculiar thing about motherboards - you never know what to expect. Sometimes really expensive board will flip it's hoofs on the first moth, and sometimes mediocre will outperform the "BEAST-TRUE-OC-SUPER-GAMING-MOBO".

The second happens very frequently, actually. I had Asus M2N SLI board once, that clocked my Athlon X2 5200+ @ 3.4GHz. Same with RAM: got some cheap Corsair DDR2-800 sticks, that outperformed (on that same board) everything I ever had. Clocked @~960MHz with 4-4-4-12 timings on stock voltage.

So, expensive is not necessarily better.


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## thebluebumblebee (Feb 11, 2014)

@Oldgeek , if you are limiting yourself to Asus, you are doing yourself a disservice.  Asus, Asrock, Gigabyte, MSI, and even, gasp, Biostar all make quality boards.
Since you are trying to build a "future proof" system, you may want to consider Thunderbolt as well.


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## Arjai (Feb 12, 2014)

thebluebumblebee said:


> @Oldgeek  Thunderbolt


+1 I think that might be the next best thing out there, of course, it's just a guess.


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## Oldgeek (Feb 12, 2014)

My preference for Asus is just a sentimental brand loyalty. It is not based in hard facts. Like prefering AMD over Intel, or Coke over Pepsi. I know I should look at other options, but that means a lot more time spent on research, and knowing where to start is a crapshoot, unless I have tips, so I'm open to suggestions. Thanks.


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## BiggieShady (Feb 12, 2014)

Oldgeek said:


> I know I should look at other options, but that means a lot more time spent on research, and knowing where to start is a crapshoot, unless I have tips, so I'm open to suggestions. Thanks.



The best you can do is to look at the statistics (with a grain of salt).
These are the last year motherboard models with highest failure rates:

- 5,22% ASRock 970 Pro3
- 5,03% ASRock Z77 Pro3
- 4,39% ASUS Maximus VI Hero
- 4,39% ASUS Rampage IV Extreme
- 3,86% ASRock H87M

Source: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic...ts-french-but-i-translated-nearly-everything/


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## Oldgeek (Feb 12, 2014)

thebluebumblebee said:


> Wait, I'm confused.  You just went from "balls to the wall" to "good enough".  The price for SSD's has fallen to the point where, IMHO, it does not make sense (or is that cents) to build a system without one.  A 2 TB hybrid drive is roughly the same price as the SSD I pointed out.
> BTW, where are you planning on making your purchases?  Are you near a Microcenter?


First of all, I had heard of SSD drives a year ago, and I discussed them with some people who told me a hybrid was better because it put the OS on the flash, and everything else on the platter; plus, the flash could fail easier, and then you lose everything. So a hybrid was better.

Secondly, I have been under the impression that EVERYONE was putting hybrids in their systems, like it was the latest and best thing to do. So how is a hybrid 'good enough'?

The one problem I have with a hybrid is that Windows says it needs about 20 gigs for 7 (I *hate hate hate* Windows 8), but a WD hybrid only has 8 gigs of flash. I'm thinking I want _all_ of my OS on the flash.

And btw, I installed that blue shell stuff on my mom's laptop to make 8 look like 7. It's doesn't make 8 worthwhile.

I will most likely buy from any of the top online retailers: Newegg, NCIX, TigerDirect, Canada Computers, Canada Direct, etc. Whoever has the best price and shipping.


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## TRWOV (Feb 13, 2014)

most folks go with an SSD + HDD setup: a 120 or 240GB SSD for Windows + your most used programs  and a big HD drive for all your stuff.

The first SSDs were a coin toss and when they failed they did suddenly (not the  clickity dead spiral that HDDs usually go trough) but not so much anymore. They've come a long way.


The flash memory of the hybrids doesn't backup files but the most read sectors. Saying that the OS resides in the flash memory is wrong although I suppose it's the easiest way to explain them in a non technical way.

Hybrids make sense in a constrained environment, like a laptop, where you usually can only install a single drive but a good thing about them is that when (not _if_) the flash memory dies you don't lose any files since they are still in the platters, the sectors on the flash memory are a copy.


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## Arjai (Feb 13, 2014)

I like the idea of a couple SSD's, in RAID, and a 1 or 2 terabyte platter. SSD's will eventually go, but they have gotten worlds better in the last year alone, reliability wise.

In Raid because the chances of them both kicking the bucket, simultaneously? Astronomical, I am sure.

I have a hideously slow 5400 platter in my Ultrabook. The saving grace is the 24GB ssd cache that regularly kicks in to save my sanity!  Eventually, if I ever land a raise, I am gonna get a Kingston SSD, 240 or 480 for this thing. Then....hmmm, I might just lose all patience for everything!!

Once I eventually un-storage my desktops...RAID city baby!! I swear, by the time I retire, I am gonna have 25 drives full of Humble Bundle and Steam games that I will finally have time to play!!


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## Oldgeek (Feb 16, 2014)

I guess I should consider a RAID pattern for my build. I have ruined drives before, but always because I'm a pack rat. I keep everything because I might need it someday. People have actually asked me for things (articles, .pdfs, movies, etc.) a week after I deleted them. That really gets to me. I have routinely gotten drives up to 95% capacity, and higher. And then they fail. I haven't thrown any out. I think one day it will be cheap enough to get to the platters and get everything off. Maybe one day I'll know someone who is good at getting the platters out and putting them in another drive case to run it and transfer all the files.

After all, if these drives had incriminating evidence on them, the cops would do exactly that! So why would it be unreasonable for me to hope it could happen for my drives?


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