# Bought new speakers but chirping noise is back.



## caroline! (Sep 11, 2022)

I managed to grab an Edifier S350DB set, brand new, I've had them tested at the store and the sound was good though the ambient was noisy.
The subwoofer is bigger than I thought and the bass loud which is nice, and the speakers sound way better than my old $2 USB portable ones. 

What's not nice is that both speakers and sub emit a constant chirping sound that becomes louder with volume, it's still there when I play music so not coming from the computer. I've had this issue before with the older speakers but seemingly "fixed itself" when I rewired my whole room and grounded my computer (my own twist of Japan grounding system), but seems it didn't as it's still there. Checked all of the cables, tried different cables betwixt 



Spoiler



I'll keep saying that


 sub and PC, and also different power cables in case the one provided was damaged somehow. That wasn't it.

Any audiophile tips and tricks? mind this is a $400 set and not some Logitechs.

Oh and I've checked the plug is inserted the right way (live pin = left) into the socket and sub but even flipping it over changes nothing. Removing the computer's ground wire transforms the chirping into a more audible crackling.

SOS.


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## 1freedude (Sep 11, 2022)

You have cell phone nearby?  I've noticed interference from them.  Or other RF ingress...


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## Batou1986 (Sep 11, 2022)

caroline! said:


> I've had this issue before


You need a line conditioner or an electrician then something on your electrical circut is introducing EMI


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## droopyRO (Sep 11, 2022)

Do you have a USB sound card or DAC to test with ?


Batou1986 said:


> or an electrician


Or an Exorcist


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## bobbybluz (Sep 11, 2022)

What are you using for your audio source? What's the first device in the signal chain?


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## caroline! (Sep 11, 2022)

1freedude said:


> You have cell phone nearby?  I've noticed interference from them.  Or other RF ingress...


Nothing. Speakers do come with bluetooth (in?) but I haven't turned it on as far as I know.


bobbybluz said:


> What are you using for your audio source? What's the first device in the signal chain?


Green jack on the motherboard with a cable that goes directly to the input. I've used the provided cable and also a much lower quality one and both behave in the same way.



droopyRO said:


> Do you have a USB sound card or DAC to test with ?
> 
> Or an Exorcist


Nope. And no exorcists either.


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## bobbybluz (Sep 11, 2022)

I suspect the onboard audio is the culprit. Get a decent audio card and the noise problem will vanish.


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## Ferather (Sep 11, 2022)

If you have a mobile phone that has not yet done away with the 3.5mm jack, try that or anything else with a 3.5mm jack.
Else try the Bluetooth and connect to PC via Bluetooth, or even SPDIF at least for testing.

If the sound is fine with another device, it's the onboard audio.


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## claes (Sep 11, 2022)

I’m gonna say electricity

Also I think OP has tried a second source?


caroline! said:


> it's still there when I play music so not coming from the computer


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## Ferather (Sep 11, 2022)

I missed that sorry. Edit: I remember when a faulty light circuit can reduce broadband. Oh the banes of analogue, and conductive circuit.

"Check for electrical interference
Electrical equipment can cause interference. Electrical equipment can cause real problems for your connection, anything with a motor or pump can particularly be an issue. Try turning off electrical devices to see if they are interfering. If possible keep your router/modem away from other electrical equipment. BT have shown that faulty fluorescent lighting and even christmas tree lights can drastically reduce broadband speeds in some cases. Experiment with turning off devices."

Source   --  Side note: My mobile phone uses the headphone cable to receive FM transmission.


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## Mister300 (Sep 11, 2022)

There are a infinite sources of noise from analog to digital.  Look at this.






						Interfering Emissions - Signal Identification Wiki
					






					www.sigidwiki.com
				




Most of these have sound files to listen to.  Here is my SDR in action on Youtube  








Common fixes
1. Poor grounding
2. Place iron chokes on cables , very inexpensive fix.
3. Unplug all wall warts i.e. phone chargers etc. 
4. Kill main breaker to your residence and plug PC into Battery BU and add peripherals until noise appears.


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## caroline! (Sep 11, 2022)

Hi I'm back from work already, tried a few things.


Ferather said:


> If you have a mobile phone that has not yet done away with the 3.5mm jack, try that or anything else with a 3.5mm jack.
> Else try the Bluetooth and connect to PC via Bluetooth, or even SPDIF at least for testing.
> 
> If the sound is fine with another device, it's the onboard audio.


Tried with a portable radio but can't tell because of the normal radio interference, and also looked for an ancient Walkman adapter cable for my phone that lets me plug it into these speakers.
_I've never used that cable before but it was there when I needed it, see guys don't throw away your box of old cables!!_

Even when there's no input at all there's a very subtle noise on the speakers, but this one is different... if you've ever heard a stuck spindle on a hard drive, that's how it sounds.

Don't have a bluetooth emitter for my PC yet and the audio output is only analogue.


Ferather said:


> I missed that sorry. Edit: I remember when a faulty light circuit can reduce broadband. Oh the banes of analogue, and conductive circuit.
> 
> "Check for electrical interference
> Electrical equipment can cause interference. Electrical equipment can cause real problems for your connection, anything with a motor or pump can particularly be an issue. Try turning off electrical devices to see if they are interfering. If possible keep your router/modem away from other electrical equipment. BT have shown that faulty fluorescent lighting and even christmas tree lights can drastically reduce broadband speeds in some cases. Experiment with turning off devices."
> ...


CRTs also induce a lot of interference but it's not my case as even with the monitor unplugged the noise can be heard.


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## LabRat 891 (Sep 11, 2022)

I don't use the software, pretty much ever, but since it's audible, you should be able to capture a recording somehow, and load it into Audacity. The idea here is to find out the frequency of the interference; it would help point out the cause.

Ex. IIRC Many Switch Mode Power Supply Units and other devices produce noise around 40khz and near fractions and multiples thereof.

Edit: you mentioned trying a portable radio, but I didn't see mentioned if you tried AM or FM. AM often picks up electrical noise, especially the lower frequencies.


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## claes (Sep 11, 2022)

Try Bluetooth from your phone?


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## caroline! (Sep 12, 2022)

LabRat 891 said:


> I don't use the software, pretty much ever, but since it's audible, you should be able to capture a recording somehow, and load it into Audacity. The idea here is to find out the frequency of the interference; it would help point out the cause.
> 
> Ex. IIRC Many Switch Mode Power Supply Units and other devices produce noise around 40khz and near fractions and multiples thereof.
> 
> Edit: you mentioned trying a portable radio, but I didn't see mentioned if you tried AM or FM. AM often picks up electrical noise, especially the lower frequencies.


Tried AM and FM on the radio, also SW but it simply hums as there's nothing to hear.



claes said:


> Try Bluetooth from your phone?


Counts as no input imo.

I believe I've found a workaround tho, if I use the front audio jack and an extension cable that goes to the back, there's no noise. But this is still coming from the onboard controller...


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 12, 2022)

bobbybluz said:


> I suspect the onboard audio is the culprit. Get a decent audio card and the noise problem will vanish.


This. It's one of the reasons having a discrete sound card/device is important. Onboard sound devices have improved greatly over the years, but are still far from perfect. Properly engineered sound cards are the best solution with USB DACs coming in a close second. They're an added expense, but worth the extra cost.


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## nomdeplume (Sep 12, 2022)

caroline! said:


> Even when there's no input at all there's a very subtle noise on the speakers, but this one is different... if you've ever heard a stuck spindle on a hard drive, that's how it sounds.



Your issue is across multiple frequency bands and also issues with outlet used.  You can test this by plugging the speakers into an outlet on a different fuse breaker with no source.  If the noise goes away a ferrite choke bead might help with the amount of crud your computer is injecting as well.

Look if the cord already has one installed before buying a bead and size correctly for the cord if you do purchase one.  Correctly can mean looping the cord through one ferrite two or three times at cost of cord length.  Or just clamping it on per below.


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## caroline! (Sep 12, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> This. It's one of the reasons having a discrete sound card/device is important. Onboard sound devices have improved greatly over the years, but are still far from perfect. Properly engineered sound cards are the best solution with USB DACs coming in a close second. They're an added expense, but worth the extra cost.


Well I kinda knew an expensive set of speakers wouldn't work with puny onboard audio so what are any decent sound cards but at an affordable price? For around $100 so no audiophile tier. I'd like to avoid USB anything, I don't like sound over USB, feel the analogue ports are still good enough.

And why is the noise gone when I use the front jack? isn't that sound coming from the onboard as well? cranked up the volume to 100% and nothing can be heard.

I might have an audio bracket from a bygone era that would do the same as this front jack, that's connecting to the pins on the mobo using a set of wires. Those are the kinds of things that came packed with old high end boards.

I've always trusted onboard because my speakers were the cheapest I could get, or frankensteins built out of junk parts. Dead TVs are a nice source of speakers, pair them with an USB cable, couple of diodes and resistors and boom you've got a functional pair of speakers. But it was about time for something decent that matches my style: classic with a few improvements.

I'll try the chokes, this goes on the signal cable right? Thing is that's kind of an adapter instead of a proper cable, as it adapts 2RCA to 3.5mm jack, just like my phone adapts the weird Sony connector to 2RCA

The world of audio is truly new to me.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 12, 2022)

caroline! said:


> For around $100 so no audiophile tier. I'd like to avoid USB anything, I don't like sound over USB, feel the analogue ports are still good enough.


For that price range, you've got a good selection of options.

SoundBlasterX AE5


			https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086QN3WNX
		

$130

SoundBlaster Audigy RX


			https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EO6X7PG
		

$70

SoundBlaster Audigy FX





						Amazon.com: Creative Sound Blaster Audigy FX PCIe 5.1 Sound Card with High Performance Headphone Amp: Computers & Accessories
					

Buy Creative Sound Blaster Audigy FX PCIe 5.1 Sound Card with High Performance Headphone Amp: Internal Sound Cards - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com
				



$40

While I personally prefer Creative cards, Asus makes a few very good models too;

Xonar AE


			Amazon.com
		

$80

Xonar SE


			Amazon.com
		

$40

Where it comes to the noise you're experiencing, moving the audio source to a dedicated, shielded and power filtered point will do much to remove much of the potential noise.



nomdeplume said:


> Your issue is across multiple frequency bands and also issues with outlet used.  You can test this by plugging the speakers into an outlet on a different fuse breaker with no source.  If the noise goes away a ferrite choke bead might help with the amount of crud your computer is injecting as well.
> 
> Look if the cord already has one installed before buying a bead and size correctly for the cord if you do purchase one.  Correctly can mean looping the cord through one ferrite two or three times at cost of cord length.  Or just clamping it on per below.





caroline! said:


> I'll try the chokes, this goes on the signal cable right? Thing is that's kind of an adapter instead of a proper cable, as it adapts 2RCA to 3.5mm jack, just like my phone adapts the weird Sony connector to 2RCA


Yes, this is also good idea to try. It's not a cure-all, but they can be helpful for noise coming in from your power lines. And there is the key point, any choke you buy will need to be mounted on the power cord coming into your PC as well as the power supplying the speakers. Putting a choke on the audio line from the sound output on the PC will not do much as at that point the sound is already processed and the noise integrated into the signal going to the speakers. The key is to prevent the noise from making into the output signal.

If you're living in an environment that has a lot of RF and EMF emissions, it might be impossible to remove all noise, but with the right choices in equipment, you can reduce what will make it into your sound output.


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## droopyRO (Sep 12, 2022)

caroline! said:


> Nope. And no exorcists either.


Try to borrow a USB sound card or a DAC like a Fiio E10K like i have. If it is a problem with the onboard audio, the USB card should be free of it.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 12, 2022)

droopyRO said:


> Try to borrow a USB sound card or a DAC like a Fiio E10K like i have. If it is a problem with the onboard audio, the USB card should be free of it.


You might have overlooked this part of the conversation:


caroline! said:


> I'd like to avoid USB anything, I don't like sound over USB, feel the analogue ports are still good enough.


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## droopyRO (Sep 12, 2022)

I said borrow not buy. If it dose the same on USB as on onboard. Then you isolated the issue to the speakers or wall socket. And someone please explain to me how sound is different on a USB connection than on a analog one.


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## cvaldes (Sep 12, 2022)

I’m a PC audio neophyte but I thought the two main reasons to use an external USB DAC are 1.) better quality DAC in external gear and 2.) reduce noise from EMI inside the PC case.

Either way the audio goes through a DAC at some point along the signal path so reading “I don’t like sound over USB” is a mystifying declaration to me.

Apart from saving a little cash, is there a truly compelling reason to use onboard audio outputting an analog signal?

Of my various computers all (except my notebook PC) are outputting digital audio over HDMI or DisplayPort cables. My daily driver PC also outputs optical digital to a small Teac receiver. My Mac also outputs digital audio over USB to a Cambridge DacMagic.

What am I missing by favoring an external DAC over onboard audio?


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## nomdeplume (Sep 12, 2022)

caroline! said:


> And why is the noise gone when I use the front jack? isn't that sound coming from the onboard as well? cranked up the volume to 100% and nothing can be heard.





caroline! said:


> I'll try the chokes, this goes on the signal cable right? Thing is that's kind of an adapter instead of a proper cable, as it adapts 2RCA to 3.5mm jack, just like my phone adapts the weird Sony connector to 2RCA



I must have missed reading this key fact in the topmost quote.  Ferrite choke is not the most obvious solution anymore.  My online diagnosis of "I did crazy stuff with my power" certainly made it a higher priority to remove as cause.

They can be fit to pretty much any cord or cable.  I have USB that came from the factory with one installed.  The name choke should tell you they may not be the ideal thing to place on an audio only adapter cable.  



caroline! said:


> Well I kinda knew an expensive set of speakers wouldn't work with puny onboard audio so what are any decent sound cards but at an affordable price? For around $100 so no audiophile tier. I'd like to avoid USB anything, I don't like sound over USB, feel the analogue ports are still good enough.



I guarantee your speakers were designed with onboard audio as one of the most likely sources.  Phone and PC.

3.5mm port are more than good enough.  Your mobo 3.5mm port does not seem to be so great for this application.  Nor do I believe onboard sound card are a feasible solution with modern hardware.  Your phone or PC realistically have the same or better capability.  I suspect this will be hard to hear, but PCIe sound cards are in everything but name USB sound cards.

Sub $100 USB DAC might be your only feasible upgrade.  Not option, upgrade.  Not suggesting a devalued legacy piece of Schitt either.  More sophisticated.

I respect the decision to spend zero monies is preferable.  Any caroline! as clever as they seem might just unhook their front 3.5mm jack from the mobo and contrive a means to feed audio directly to or through a rear mounted 3.5mm female connector and adapter cable into their speakers.


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## Chomiq (Sep 13, 2022)

Ummm:








						Edifier S350DB - High pitch noise
					

So i got these speakers today, massive upgrade compared to the G560's! It's literally night and day, i can't believe what i've been missing out on all these years buying gamer speakers.  Anyway, i noticed straight off the bat that no matter what interface i used, optical, cox, bt etc there was a...




					www.overclock.net
				









						Edifier S350DB - High pitch noise on all outputs with an exception.
					

So i got these speakers today, massive upgrade compared to the G560's!  It's literally night and day, i can't believe what i've been missing out on all these years buying gamer speakers.  Anyway, i noticed straight off the bat that no matter what interface i used, optical, cox, bt etc there was...




					forums.overclockers.co.uk
				



^ spoiler, on third unit he finally got one that didn't produce the same type of noise you're hearing.


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/BudgetAudiophile/comments/k95aq9


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/BudgetAudiophile/comments/ipyrw5


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/audio/comments/ipyreo


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/BudgetAudiophile/comments/kadxte
Here Edifier Support told the owner that it's not an issue.

Return this POS.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 13, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> Ummm:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting development.


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## nomdeplume (Sep 13, 2022)

Posits nothing but a culture of inability to resist inflating negative reporting across social media.  When 900 out of 1000 reviews tear the product and aftersale support apart or a class lawsuit restricts ongoing sale... 

Every [pause] EVERY manufactured speaker of this class or below have this issue.  Unshielded cables are responsible a majority of the time.  More often the electronics as a whole just prove susceptible to whatever is floating around in that particular environment.  

It is highly unpredictable.  You could pull six brand new speakers of the same or different make and model out and get different results in every home you attempt this in.  Outright return is always a better option than being forced into a chain of RMA failures.  After making sure correcting the issue is not the easier of the two options.


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## caroline! (Sep 13, 2022)

Hi, updating.


droopyRO said:


> Try to borrow a USB sound card or a DAC like a Fiio E10K like i have. If it is a problem with the onboard audio, the USB card should be free of it.





droopyRO said:


> I said borrow not buy. If it dose the same on USB as on onboard. Then you isolated the issue to the speakers or wall socket. And someone please explain to me how sound is different on a USB connection than on a analog one.


I borrowed one from a friend but my computer refuses to recognise it, I'm using Arch and also Windows 10, nada. I didn't said sound is different, I just have... a thing with USB, I don't like it when there's already a dedicated port for say audio, or keyboard. Shame my mobo doesn't has an optical audio port, could've used that.



cvaldes said:


> I’m a PC audio neophyte but I thought the two main reasons to use an external USB DAC are 1.) better quality DAC in external gear and 2.) reduce noise from EMI inside the PC case.
> 
> Either way the audio goes through a DAC at some point along the signal path so reading “I don’t like sound over USB” is a mystifying declaration to me.
> 
> ...



I really don't have enough space for more equipment, other than saving cash I like onboard audio because I've always used it. If I'm spending money I'll get a sound card and the optical wire if it means an upgrade over the antique analogue connectors.



nomdeplume said:


> I must have missed reading this key fact in the topmost quote.  Ferrite choke is not the most obvious solution anymore.  My online diagnosis of "I did crazy stuff with my power" certainly made it a higher priority to remove as cause.
> 
> They can be fit to pretty much any cord or cable.  I have USB that came from the factory with one installed.  The name choke should tell you they may not be the ideal thing to place on an audio only adapter cable.
> 
> ...



They come with multiple input options, classic analogue for PC/TV/whatever outputs sound, coax, opt and wireless of course.
Options right now are: sound card with optical wire or old case bracket but also losing the front jacks. For the cards I trust Creative more than ASUS or any "gamer-ish" brand.

As for the negative reviews: they're wrong/not my issue because wiring the speakers to the front panel gets rid of the noise, so there's nothing wrong with them.


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## cvaldes (Sep 13, 2022)

caroline! said:


> I really don't have enough space for more equipment, other than saving cash I like onboard audio because I've always used it. If I'm spending money I'll get a sound card and the optical wire if it means an upgrade over the antique analogue connectors.



Again, I'm just not getting your reasoning.

A USB cable would just replace the existing analog audio cable coming out of your PC, right? It's not like you'd be adding or subtracting any wires for 2-channel audio. It's still one wire (regardless whether it's analog or digital) going from the PC to the audio device (speaker, subwoofer, A/V receiver).

And if you buy a sound card and use an optical wire, it's still a wired connection. You're just passing digital optical data over a wire instead of an analog audio signal or digital audio packets over a USB cable. You're just paying for the privilege of using an optical digital connection rather than using your PC's built-in USB ports. Whether you choose optical or USB for outputting digital audio really doesn't matter for mundane use cases as far as I can tell.

Perhaps I'm missing something that is obvious to you and others but has gone noticed by me. That wouldn't be a first, LOL. As I said, my knowledge of PC audio is very basic.

Anyhow, it looks like my understanding doesn't pertain to this situation so I hereby bow out of further discussion in this thread.

Best of luck!


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 13, 2022)

cvaldes said:


> Again, I'm just not getting your reasoning.


You don't need to. They don't want to go the USB audio route because of added desk clutter. Can't blame them there either.


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## Luke357 (Sep 13, 2022)

caroline! said:


> I just have... a thing with USB, I don't like it when there's already a dedicated port for say audio, or keyboard. Shame my mobo doesn't has an optical audio port, could've used that.
> I like onboard audio because I've always used it.


Both of these are lame excuses for not using USB audio. Ignoring that however...

The Creative Audigy ($40 US last I looked) (or the Asus Xonar SE if you need optical) linked earlier in this thread seem like some cost effective ways to fix the interference issue (assuming the issue is the ports on the onboard audio and not due to the fact it has close proximity to alot of EMI inducing components.) If the issue is the fact that the inside of your computer has too much interference USB audio is the only solution (unless you'd rather use the FP connectors on your case, which is valid).


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 13, 2022)

Luke357 said:


> Both of these are lame excuses for not using USB audio.


Maybe for you, but I'm with them. I don't like USB dongles cluttering up my desk, so everything is generally internal to the PC unless it won't fit. Additionally, USB audio is generally of lesser quality than that of discrete sound cards. Good rule of thumb, if you'd got a free slot in your PC, put a card in it rather than use an external device. Though there are exceptions to that rule, in this situation, the OP would very likely best served by a sound card of good quality.


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## claes (Sep 13, 2022)

caroline! said:


> As for the negative reviews: they're wrong/not my issue because wiring the speakers to the front panel gets rid of the noise, so there's nothing wrong with them.


Wait — you don’t have any issues with the chassis front ports, but with every other source?


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## caroline! (Sep 13, 2022)

cvaldes said:


> Again, I'm just not getting your reasoning.
> 
> A USB cable would just replace the existing analog audio cable coming out of your PC, right? It's not like you'd be adding or subtracting any wires for 2-channel audio. It's still one wire (regardless whether it's analog or digital) going from the PC to the audio device (speaker, subwoofer, A/V receiver).
> 
> ...


Yes it's still one wire, and I know it's still "the same" moving digital signals through a pair of wires but using a different connector.
I don't like USB for audio, there's no reason for it, I just don't like it. You know when you suddenly meet someone and dislike him for no reason at all? that happens to me with USB and audio, or when you dislike one spoon in particular when it's done nothing to you. It's ok for flash drives and other peripherals tho.





Also it's not like I can grab an USB and plug it directly into my speakers, it doesn't works like that and I'd have to go through the DAC first.



claes said:


> Wait — you don’t have any issues with the chassis front ports, but with every other source?


That's what I've been saying.

Oh and if I use my phone or mp3 player there's no noise either, just tried again. That fully rules out the speakers and blames the computer instead.


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## nomdeplume (Sep 13, 2022)

caroline! said:


> They come with multiple input options, classic analogue for PC/TV/whatever outputs sound, coax, opt and wireless of course.
> Options right now are: sound card with optical wire or old case bracket but also losing the front jacks. For the cards I trust Creative more than ASUS or any "gamer-ish" brand.



You are misunderstanding.  Internally they are treated as USB I/O.  Effectively they rely on a signed USB device driver.  I won't make a case for this any further so you can focus on the solution that is right on your end of the internet.  I'm not a tarnished spoon.  

It sounds like you borrowed an older card.  Here your issue was easily predictable because... It likely didn't work anywhere near correctly without input from a team of people with multiple doctorates working around the clock... in XP.  Drivers for W10/11 is a lost cause.



> I really don't have enough space for more equipment,



By any chance would your thing about onboard inputs detract from using HDMI audio into a preamp safe to use with your powered speakers.  Among other things it would help clean up the audio signal.


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## erocker (Sep 13, 2022)

Buy a cheap USB DAC.


lexluthermiester said:


> USB audio is generally of lesser quality than that of discrete sound cards.


That is just simply not true compared with pretty much any DAC over 75 bucks.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 13, 2022)

erocker said:


> any DAC over 75 bucks.


Key point. A quality sound card, as demonstrated earlier in the thread, can be had for as little as $40 and that card is leap & bounds better than a USB DAC of similar price. Plus, it's internal to the PC case and will not clutter up the desk.


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## Operandi (Sep 13, 2022)

caroline! said:


> Shame my mobo doesn't has an optical audio port, could've used that.


Optical is about the shittiest interface you could ever use for audio from a PC.  When you interface with a DAC via TOSLINK (optical) you are using your PCs clock which by audio standards is pure garbage. The USB audio format uses the DACs clock amongst other advantages that make it a vastly superior interface.

I'd suggest getting over you phobia of USB audio as thats a orders of magnitude better way to connect a DAC to a PC.


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## caroline! (Sep 13, 2022)

Extra point for the sound card.


lexluthermiester said:


> Key point. A quality sound card, as demonstrated earlier in the thread, can be had for as little as $40 and that card is leap & bounds better than a USB DAC of similar price. Plus, it's internal to the PC case and will not clutter up the desk.



I've looked at the local market and both the Creative RX and the ASUS SE are available, the Creative seems to be a bit higher end so I might grab that one. I remember reading a lot of good things about Creative cards a few years ago so I hope they still make decent products.

Also from them there's the Sound Blaster Z/SE for $5 more, the key difference here seems to be the OPT-IN port in addition to the output, oh and the red cover, I doubt that's an actual heatsink.


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## Operandi (Sep 13, 2022)

caroline! said:


> I doubt that's an actual heatsink.


Thats a shield to protect ICs from the EMI cluster fuck that is a PC.


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## caroline! (Sep 13, 2022)

The cheap DACs rabbit hole has guided me to one of the weirdest audio things I've seen

https://www.amazon.com/Mic-Support-External-Mic-Input-Audio-Output-Converter/dp/B0995JNBM7/

pros: 
$10
all in one
no drivers apparently

Also this one similar to the one I borrowed from my friend
https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-External-Adapter-Windows-AU-MMSA/dp/B00IRVQ0F8/


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## Operandi (Sep 14, 2022)

caroline! said:


> The cheap DACs rabbit hole has guided me to one of the weirdest audio things I've seen
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Mic-Support-External-Mic-Input-Audio-Output-Converter/dp/B0995JNBM7/
> 
> ...


Thats not weird at all, just cheap and generic.  But its more or less the same thing (functionally) as one of the most popular external DACs on the planet, the Apple Lighting to 3.5mm headphone adapter.

DACs rarely need drivers.


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## nomdeplume (Sep 14, 2022)

Operandi said:


> Thats not weird at all, just cheap and generic.  But its more or less the same thing (functionally) as one of the most popular external DACs on the planet, the Apple Lighting to 3.5mm headphone adapter.
> 
> DACs rarely need drivers.



Phone DAC are different beasts than a constant power source + USB power DAC.  They overheat and wear out.




erocker said:


> Buy a cheap USB DAC.
> 
> That is just simply not true compared with pretty much any DAC over 75 bucks.



Comments about price to performance don't prove true in real life.  A DAC chip that costs less than a US quarter is not worse than one that costs $10 simply because it costs more.  Prices are scaled off just this type of marketing point.  The difference you look for is $75 worth of design quality in a usable package instead of a price tag of $75.

If shipping was less than outrageous I could get a direct from the Chinese factory Pi DAC kit and ghetto mod an internal 3.5mm jack onto a blank PCIe plate for under $100.  Honestly I'm not sure what is holding up unplugging the front case jack and rigging up a patch cable from mobo HD Audio pins to a gently powered 3.5 mm jack on a drilled out blank.



Operandi said:


> DACs rarely need drivers.



To playback mp3 in the most polluted fashion OS can arrange.

ASIO and other functionality mean a driver for M$.


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## caroline! (Sep 14, 2022)

nomdeplume said:


> Honestly I'm not sure what is holding up unplugging the front case jack and rigging up a patch cable from mobo HD Audio pins to a gently powered 3.5 mm jack on a drilled out blank.


I don't want to destroy the front panel BUT I'm sure I've seen an older bracket somewhere that can do the same. If it still exists I'll try that, otherwise the sound card or a DAC if I can find one that's not that cheap cable because I foresee it's gonna die in a month.


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## nomdeplume (Sep 14, 2022)

caroline! said:


> I don't want to destroy the front panel BUT I'm sure I've seen an older bracket somewhere that can do the same. If it still exists I'll try that, otherwise the sound card or a DAC if I can find one that's not that cheap cable because I foresee it's gonna die in a month.



Nah, that part is just unplugging the cases HD Audio cable and bundle it up behind the board.  I may be thinking a bit more adventurous in other ways you're not up for.      

You seem set on a sound card anyways.  Don't buy a crappy DAC because of peer pressure.


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## claes (Sep 14, 2022)

Is anyone else confused that the chassis audio is cleaner than the motherboard audio? Makes no sense to me and suggests there’s nothing wrong with the onboard audio. Shouldn’t any interference affecting the motherboard only get worse when running through the chassis IO?


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## Ferather (Sep 14, 2022)

If only the THX certificate was a thing, its what's it's for, I'm not strictly pro THX, but I am pro certified units, CBA sending back units because they ultimately don't pass.


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## caroline! (Sep 14, 2022)

claes said:


> Is anyone else confused that the chassis audio is cleaner than the motherboard audio? Makes no sense to me and suggests there’s nothing wrong with the onboard audio. Shouldn’t any interference affecting the motherboard only get worse when running through the chassis IO?


^^^

It's not that the front panel wires are shielded and have chokes on them, nope it's just a flat ribbon of wires and a cheap wobbly connector at the end yet it works perfectly.


nomdeplume said:


> Nah, that part is just unplugging the cases HD Audio cable and bundle it up behind the board.  I may be thinking a bit more adventurous in other ways you're not up for.
> 
> You seem set on a sound card anyways.  Don't buy a crappy DAC because of peer pressure.


I've read "optical is trash" so I'm even more confused now. I'd like to believe a sound card can properly clock/sync the audio signals before they reach the output port.


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## Operandi (Sep 14, 2022)

caroline! said:


> It's not that the front panel wires are shielded and have chokes on them, nope it's just a flat ribbon of wires and a cheap wobbly connector at the end yet it works perfectly.


Its everything thats in the path before the output that counts.  PCs are full of EMI and unless whoever was designing the audio section carefully making design choices to mitigate all that you get noise.  Usually its the front ports that are worse because the output is further way from the sound chipset but thats not always  how it works as onboard sound is usually an after thought in general.


caroline! said:


> I've read "optical is trash" so I'm even more confused now. I'd like to believe a sound card can properly clock/sync the audio signals before they reach the output port.


Clocks in PCs are not very accurate at all and then look at the sample rates involved in digital audio, its a bad combination.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 14, 2022)

Operandi said:


> Clocks in PCs are not very accurate at all and then look at the sample rates involved in digital audio, its a bad combination.


While there's some truth to that, in context of audio reproduction and the transmission of digital data through a fiber-optic connection, the variances are so small as render them completely irrelevant. We are talking about variances measured in billionths of a second at best, and hundred millionths of a second at worst, neither of which is going to render ANYTHING that the human ear/perception can distinguish. The arguments that have raged elsewhere on the interwebs are as silly and misguided as they are without merit.



caroline! said:


> I've read "optical is trash" so I'm even more confused now.


It's not trash. If you want to use TOS-link, use it and enjoy the excellent quality it delivers. Full stop.


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## nomdeplume (Sep 14, 2022)

caroline! said:


> I've read "optical is trash" so I'm even more confused now. I'd like to believe a sound card can properly clock/sync the audio signals before they reach the output port.



Which is getting further from directly resolving the issue you are having, no? 

We've isolated the issue in two highly common places.  Powered speakers that pick up unwanted signals and a mobo that produces or collects these type of signals.  The speakers on your desk may not work as desired no matter what you do.  Second or third or tenth RMA pair might.  This is widely referred to as passing QC on to the customer.  

The only change you made was installing these speakers.  Don't rack your brain too hard deciding how many changes need to be involved to uncreate this issue.


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## Zareek (Sep 14, 2022)

claes said:


> Is anyone else confused that the chassis audio is cleaner than the motherboard audio? Makes no sense to me and suggests there’s nothing wrong with the onboard audio. Shouldn’t any interference affecting the motherboard only get worse when running through the chassis IO?


I agree, and then the added description of the front port cabling has me wondering. Maybe the audio out jack on the motherboard is somehow bad. My only other conclusion is something with audio drivers, but I would assume if the driver was causing the problem it would be on the front panel connector as well. This seems to be one of those odd PC issues that can't always be explained. I think we've all seen something at one time or another that doesn't add up. I think it happens less now than it did with older PCs. Just plain quirkiness...


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## pavle (Sep 14, 2022)

OP, you're hearing CPU noise from the motherboard interference, it was common knowledge with the older mainboards, laughable that it still occurs with ricer ones.
Anyhow, best and quickest solution would be to buy a sound card, no more noise (you can first try used one too, it'll work in win10). I tried my CT Audigy 2 with win10 and it works just fine after a few specifics (driver: SBA5_PCDRV_L11_3_01_0056B\Audio\DriversWin10\wdm\wdma_emu.inf).


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## Operandi (Sep 14, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> While there's some truth to that, in context of audio reproduction and the transmission of digital data through a fiber-optic connection, the variances are so small as render them completely irrelevant. We are talking about variances measured in billionths of a second at best, and hundred millionths of a second at worst, neither of which is going to render ANYTHING that the human ear/perception can distinguish. The arguments that have raged elsewhere on the interwebs are as silly and misguided as they are without merit.


I don't want to turn this into a thing cause its not what the thread is about but TOSLINK from a PC should be avoided.  The clocks in a PC are insanely inaccurate for the purposes of digital audio, to the extent a $40 DVD player for 2001 has a better optical output than your average $1,000 PC.  The clocking is one of the most important aspects in the digital to analog conversion and its exactly in a realtime audio stream where the timing of the data is critical and very relevant.

For anyone that cares that wants further reading this USB vs SPDIF article is pretty concise.


lexluthermiester said:


> It's not trash. If you want to use TOS-link, use it and enjoy the excellent quality it delivers. Full stop.


Maybe they aren't all trash but speaking generally TOSLINK from a PC is trash.  Maybe yours is better than average or maybe you don't notice the problems if they are present but its still an inferior interface compared to USB and should not be recommended to anyone that cares about quality.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 14, 2022)

Operandi said:


> I don't want to turn this into a thing cause its not what the thread is about but TOSLINK from a PC.  The clocks in a PC are insanely inacture for the purposes of digital audio, a $40 DVD player for 2001 has a better optical output than your average $1,000 PC.  It is objectively bad and its exactly in a realtime audio stream where the timing of the data is critical and very relevant.
> 
> Maybe they aren't all trash but speaking generally TOSLINK from a PC is trash.  Maybe yours is better than average or maybe you don't notice the problems if they are present but its still an inferior interface compared to USB and should not be recommended to anyone that cares about quality.


Yeah, let's not get into this debate. It been done to death and neither of us is going to change each other's mind.


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## caroline! (Sep 14, 2022)

Operandi said:


> I don't want to turn this into a thing cause its not what the thread is about but TOSLINK from a PC.  The clocks in a PC are insanely inacture for the purposes of digital audio, a $40 DVD player for 2001 has a better optical output than your average $1,000 PC.  It is objectively bad and its exactly in a realtime audio stream where the timing of the data is critical and very relevant.
> 
> Maybe they aren't all trash but speaking generally TOSLINK from a PC is trash.  Maybe yours is better than average or maybe you don't notice the problems if they are present but its still an inferior interface compared to USB and should not be recommended to anyone that cares about quality.


What about analogue from the sound card? still bad?

In any case I'll have to try both because I've ordered the card already, I went for the Sound Blaster ^^


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## Operandi (Sep 15, 2022)

caroline! said:


> What about analogue from the sound card? still bad?
> 
> In any case I'll have to try both because I've ordered the card already, I went for the Sound Blaster ^^


No, I'm sure the analog from the SB is good.  Probably better than the DAC built into the speakers but who knows, try both.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 15, 2022)

caroline! said:


> went for the Sound Blaster ^^


Which one?



Operandi said:


> No, I'm sure the analog from the SB is good.


I am. Creative has always done proper engineering on their cards.


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## kapone32 (Sep 15, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> While I personally prefer Creative cards, Asus makes a few very good models too;
> 
> Xonar AE
> 
> ...


I actually bought a Xonar Ae card and though it does sound clean it is not nearly as loud as the 1220. The AE still uses the older Realtek 892 codec. Unless they have updated them since I bought one about 6 months ago.


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## caroline! (Sep 15, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Which one?
> 
> 
> I am. Creative has always done proper engineering on their cards.


I went for the Z SE for the price.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 15, 2022)

caroline! said:


> I went for the Z SE for the price.


Nice! That's a good card!


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## Zareek (Sep 15, 2022)

Operandi said:


> I don't want to turn this into a thing cause its not what the thread is about but TOSLINK from a PC should be avoided.  The clocks in a PC are insanely inaccurate for the purposes of digital audio, to the extent a $40 DVD player for 2001 has a better optical output than your average $1,000 PC.  The clocking is one of the most important aspects in the digital to analog conversion and its exactly in a realtime audio stream where the timing of the data is critical and very relevant.
> 
> For anyone that cares that wants further reading this USB vs SPDIF article is pretty concise.
> 
> Maybe they aren't all trash but speaking generally TOSLINK from a PC is trash.  Maybe yours is better than average or maybe you don't notice the problems if they are present but its still an inferior interface compared to USB and should not be recommended to anyone that cares about quality.


I know this thread isn't about this, but how about USB to TOSLINK? How does that stack up?


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 15, 2022)

Zareek said:


> I know this thread isn't about this, but how about USB to TOSLINK? How does that stack up?


If the engineering on the adapter is done properly, it would be fine.


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## Mister300 (Sep 15, 2022)

nomdeplume said:


> Posits nothing but a culture of inability to resist inflating negative reporting across social media.  When 900 out of 1000 reviews tear the product and aftersale support apart or a class lawsuit restricts ongoing sale...
> 
> Every [pause] EVERY manufactured speaker of this class or below have this issue.  Unshielded cables are responsible a majority of the time.  More often the electronics as a whole just prove susceptible to whatever is floating around in that particular environment.
> 
> It is highly unpredictable.  You could pull six brand new speakers of the same or different make and model out and get different results in every home you attempt this in.  Outright return is always a better option than being forced into a chain of RMA failures.  After making sure correcting the issue is not the easier of the two options.


This is why we run XLR balanced interconnects.


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## nomdeplume (Sep 15, 2022)

Mister300 said:


> This is why we run XLR balanced interconnects.



You.

OP doesn't have even the least amount of interest outside of how to make plugging in a 3.5mm cable to their computer work.


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## Operandi (Sep 15, 2022)

Zareek said:


> I know this thread isn't about this, but how about USB to TOSLINK? How does that stack up?


It adds complication but it should be ok.  You'll get the async advantage of via USB and then the rest is just dependent on how good the adapter is. Its not hard to get right its just that PCs digital outputs are typically pretty awful at it.  Still probably don't want to get the absolute cheapest one you can find, I see SMSL make one so thats probably a good way to go.

I'm guessing you are trying to connect to a AVR or something?


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## Zareek (Sep 15, 2022)

No, not that fancy, I used to do that but it's too much of a hassle. I just have a Logitech Z625 2.1 setup. It's way better than the built-in monitor speakers. I used to connect it to my MB's optical output connector. When I rearranged my office a month or two ago, I disconnected them. I plan to start using them again at some point. Last time I bought a new board, I actually chose one model over another because it had the optical out. I find I get less pops, buzzing, humming and other input inference when I use the optical connection. I've been contemplating a Sound Blaster X4 but haven't pulled the trigger yet. In the past, I've had both amazing and awful experiences with Creative products.


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## caroline! (Sep 15, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Nice! That's a good card!


It'll take a while so meanwhile I can tidy up my desk a bit, clean my PC and find a place for the huge sub.



Zareek said:


> I know this thread isn't about this, but how about USB to TOSLINK? How does that stack up?


If with a DAC I guess there wouldn't be any issues, sound goes thru USB, DAC clocks the signals and they go thru TOSLINK to the speakers? but it's overly complicated, I'd rather use the sound card and the filtered analogue outputs as usual.


nomdeplume said:


> You.
> 
> OP doesn't have even the least amount of interest outside of how to make plugging in a 3.5mm cable to their computer work.


Oh the interest is there, but the money isn't haha 

I'm sure the world of audio is far more complex than just "this cable goes here". I wanted these speakers to add some music to my otherwise silent dancing workout.


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## Ferather (Sep 16, 2022)

If you are using TOSLink, the DAC is in the receiver, the output from PC is pure digital, TOSLink is also immune to EMI.


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## Operandi (Sep 16, 2022)

Zareek said:


> No, not that fancy, I used to do that but it's too much of a hassle. I just have a Logitech Z625 2.1 setup. It's way better than the built-in monitor speakers. I used to connect it to my MB's optical output connector. When I rearranged my office a month or two ago, I disconnected them. I plan to start using them again at some point. Last time I bought a new board, I actually chose one model over another because it had the optical out. I find I get less pops, buzzing, humming and other input inference when I use the optical connection. I've been contemplating a Sound Blaster X4 but haven't pulled the trigger yet. In the past, I've had both amazing and awful experiences with Creative products.


Then whatever works is fine.  You are not going to hear any of the problems with optical out on speakers like that.


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## Chrispy_ (Sep 16, 2022)

There's a lot of good advice in this thread but my "noisy audio gear" test is foolproof, I use it all the time and it's dead simple.

1) Rule out the power circuit by running the kit off a UPS disconnected from the mains with nothing else plugged in.
2) Rule out the source by using an isolated device (phone or ipod in flight mode works great).
3) If you still get interference, move to a different location away from any radio devices and keep the input signal cable away from power cables.

If it's not the power circuit, the audio circuit, or the location then your hardware's f*cked.


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## caroline! (Sep 16, 2022)

Card is here.

Installed it and there's 0% noise using optical or 3.5mm jack


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## Ferather (Sep 17, 2022)

Lovely. 

Edit: On a side note, if you are looking at onboard specifically, I'd go with proper Asus designs, they make their own discreet sound cards.
I have a Realtek S1220-A, Asus edition with Crystal sound 3 hardware DSP and proper parts (Jap capacitors, EMI shield).


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## SomeOne99h (Sep 17, 2022)

caroline! said:


> Card is here.
> 
> Installed it and there's 0% noise using optical or 3.5mm jack


Now update the specs and let the world knows


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## caroline! (Sep 17, 2022)

SomeOne99h said:


> Now update the specs and let the world knows


I guess it counts as Audio Device(s) so yup

filled keyboard and software as well ^^

edit:


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## nomdeplume (Sep 24, 2022)

caroline! said:


> Card is here.
> 
> Installed it and there's 0% noise using optical or 3.5mm jack



Assuming all is going well. 

I thought to add a note your speakers will respond to a heavy dose of music focused on the mid-range.  The highs and lows leak outwards from this base ability to reproduce voices and instruments without strain.  Hammering away with chiptune or hardcore D&B will ultimately sound better if you've given the speakers time to settle in. 



caroline! said:


> Oh the interest is there, but the money isn't haha
> 
> I'm sure the world of audio is far more complex than just "this cable goes here". I wanted these speakers to add some music to my otherwise silent dancing workout.



My second recommendation is to make sure your speakers are located at the correct height in relationship to your ears.  Especially critical for nearfield listening. 

Your interest level might also find low cost improvement through vibration isolation.  Experiment with what you have at hand or can easily be trialed.  Stability of your desk would be your first point to assure better sound is possible.  From there your thoughts might find healthy improvement though understanding what raises the speaker height can be less important than what that object sits on.  Adding a few pounds of weight on top of the satellite speakers is also potentially going to be a good thing (*not if it will fall off - ever*). 

If your sub containing the amplifier is located on the floor a 12" marble floor tile is a great low cost platform to place it on.  Dense wood cutting boards or blocks are a very common solution for satellite speakers.  Fiberboard 'speaker stands' and majority of everything else available at retail lack nearly every benefit those two changes will bring.


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