# Acer Nitro 5 AN515-53 - Does undervolting CPU affect turbo boost?



## ShangWang (Sep 25, 2021)

These are my settings, if I wanted to use turbo boost with these undervolts would that affect the performance of it?


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## unclewebb (Sep 25, 2021)

ShangWang said:


> I wanted to use turbo boost with these undervolts would that affect the performance of it?


Using turbo boost significantly improves performance. I have no idea whey you selected Disable Turbo or why you set the turbo ratio limits so low. Your settings are killing the performance of your laptop.

Your undervolt settings look appropriate for an 8300H. Fix your settings so your CPU can run at its Intel rated speed. No need to baby an Intel CPU. It is rated to run reliably up to 100°C. That is why Intel sets the thermal throttling temperature to 100°C. Below 100°C is safe. Above 100°C is not safe and should be avoided.

There is no need to check the Speed Shift EPP option in ThrottleStop. Windows 10 is able to manage this setting. Clear this box in ThrottleStop. Use the Windows power slider in the system tray. This allows Windows to be in full control of Speed Shift EPP. It is not a good idea to have ThrottleStop writing one EPP value to the CPU while Windows is busy writing a different value to the same CPU register.

Update to ThrottleStop 9.4. You can copy the new ThrottleStop.exe into your current ThrottleStop folder.

Your voltage settings should be stable whether you are using turbo boost or not. The only way to find out for sure is to do some testing.


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## ShangWang (Sep 25, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> Using turbo boost significantly improves performance. I have no idea whey you selected Disable Turbo or why you set the turbo ratio limits so low. Your settings are killing the performance of your laptop.
> 
> Your undervolt settings look appropriate for an 8300H. Fix your settings so your CPU can run at its Intel rated speed. No need to baby an Intel CPU. It is rated to run reliably up to 100°C. That is why Intel sets the thermal throttling temperature to 100°C. Below 100°C is safe. Above 100°C is not safe and should be avoided.
> 
> ...


I am using a laptop, I am more concerned about temperatures and therefore disable turbo boost when not playing games and enable it when playing certain more demanding games but I limit the Ghz depending on what I play to not increase temperatures dramatically.

Yes, it is safe to run below 100 degrees but constantly running 90 will decrease the lifespan of the CPU overtime and I am trying to use this laptop for a long time.

I have found EPP to be helpful and haven't experienced any issues with it, I used this article in the past to look up the info and its generally recommended: The ThrottleStop Guide (2021): How to Lower Temperatures, Increase Performance and Boost Battery Life (ultrabookreview.com)

I set my power slider to best performance when plugged in, I don't know if this really does cause conflict with the power slider, but I haven't experienced any performance issues so it should be fine.

I've updated to 9.4 now.


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## unclewebb (Sep 25, 2021)

The monitoring table in the top right corner of the ThrottleStop FIVR window shows what EPP value the CPU is using. In the screenshots you posted above, the main ThrottleStop screen shows that you have ThrottleStop requesting an EPP value of 128. The FIVR window shows that the CPU is actually using an EPP value of 178. That means Windows is in control of the EPP value. 

ThrottleStop is constantly writing 128 to the EPP register but Windows is writing 178 to the same register. Windows must be writing values to the EPP register more frequently than ThrottleStop does. Windows is winning the tug of war over the EPP value. That means you do not need to check the Speed Shift EPP value in ThrottleStop. Windows is controlling this. You only need to check the ThrottleStop EPP option if you have an older CPU or if you are using an older version of Windows that is not Speed Shift aware. 

Clear the Speed Shift EPP box in ThrottleStop and switch power plans and move the Windows power slider back and forth and watch the Speed Shift EPP value in the FIVR monitoring table. You should see Windows changing the EPP value as you make changes to the Windows power settings. 



ShangWang said:


> running 90 will decrease the lifespan of the CPU


Poorly cooled servers with Intel CPUs run these sort of temperatures 24/7 for years without any issues. I have never seen an Intel CPU die from heat exhaustion. That is why Intel confidently sets the thermal throttling temperature to 100°C. Intel has been building Core i CPUs for 13 years. If high temperatures were a problem and costing Intel $$$$$ in warranty returns, they would have lowered this temperature a long time ago. No need to worry about your CPU temperature. Intel CPUs are well engineered to look after themselves.


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## ShangWang (Sep 25, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> The monitoring table in the top right corner of the ThrottleStop FIVR window shows what EPP value the CPU is using. In the screenshots you posted above, the main ThrottleStop screen shows that you have ThrottleStop requesting an EPP value of 128. The FIVR window shows that the CPU is actually using an EPP value of 178. That means Windows is in control of the EPP value.
> 
> ThrottleStop is constantly writing 128 to the EPP register but Windows is writing 178 to the same register. Windows must be writing values to the EPP register more frequently than ThrottleStop does. Windows is winning the tug of war over the EPP value. That means you do not need to check the Speed Shift EPP value in ThrottleStop. Windows is controlling this. You only need to check the ThrottleStop EPP option if you have an older CPU or if you are using an older version of Windows that is not Speed Shift aware.
> 
> ...


Sounds good, but I will try to keep temperatures down regardless to prevent throttling and prevent any issues that may arise because of constant high fan speeds and high temperatures. Thank you.

It seems windows best performance can only go up to 84, when I switch speedshift to 32 it seems to win the tug of war half of the time. In this case due to windows taking control, is there no other way to increase the EPP?

Edit: It seems when plugged in throttlestop takes control, not windows. When I put EPP to 32 and turned off speedshift when plugged in, it still remains at 32.

Edit 2: When the laptop is not plugged in and EPP is enabled, FIVR will show window's EPP of 84 initially, but will turn back to my set value after a second. It does this every time I check FIVR. You still think I should disable it?



unclewebb said:


> The monitoring table in the top right corner of the ThrottleStop FIVR window shows what EPP value the CPU is using. In the screenshots you posted above, the main ThrottleStop screen shows that you have ThrottleStop requesting an EPP value of 128. The FIVR window shows that the CPU is actually using an EPP value of 178. That means Windows is in control of the EPP value.
> 
> ThrottleStop is constantly writing 128 to the EPP register but Windows is writing 178 to the same register. Windows must be writing values to the EPP register more frequently than ThrottleStop does. Windows is winning the tug of war over the EPP value. That means you do not need to check the Speed Shift EPP value in ThrottleStop. Windows is controlling this. You only need to check the ThrottleStop EPP option if you have an older CPU or if you are using an older version of Windows that is not Speed Shift aware.
> 
> ...


It seems it's best for me to turn EPP on, when plugged in on best performance when speedshift is off, EPP is constantly 0 which is what I don't want. Even if I change the slider it doesn't change, as long as it's plugged in speedshift is not a problem for my system.


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## unclewebb (Sep 26, 2021)

ShangWang said:


> is there no other way to increase the EPP?


I think you can edit the hidden Speed Shift settings in the Windows power plan. You might be able to do that to get Windows to write 32 to the EPP register instead of 84. If you do not do that, you will always end up with ThrottleStop and Windows writing different EPP values to the same register. 

Is there any big difference in performance between EPP = 32 and EPP = 84? I have found that they both work about the same so I just let Windows manage this and I settle for 84.



ShangWang said:


> You still think I should disable it?


That is totally up to you. I prefer not to have my computer fighting with itself.


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## ShangWang (Sep 26, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> I think you can edit the hidden Speed Shift settings in the Windows power plan. You might be able to do that to get Windows to write 32 to the EPP register instead of 84. If you do not do that, you will always end up with ThrottleStop and Windows writing different EPP values to the same register.
> 
> Is there any big difference in performance between EPP = 32 and EPP = 84? I have found that they both work about the same so I just let Windows manage this and I settle for 84.
> 
> ...


Do you know how to change it in the power plan? I don't think I have the option but I also have no idea how to do it.

I've tested it, throttlestop will take full control when plugged in but windows will take full control when not plugged in. That's just how it works on my end.


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## unclewebb (Sep 26, 2021)

Open up a command window and type in

powercfg -qh >C:\power.txt

Copy and paste the data from the power.txt file into www.pastebin.com so I can have a look for this hidden setting. The power.txt file will be in your main C: directory after you run that command. I think the EPP setting can be adjusted here.


```
Power Setting GUID: 36687f9e-e3a5-4dbf-b1dc-15eb381c6863  (Processor energy performance preference policy)
      GUID Alias: PERFEPP
      Minimum Possible Setting: 0x00000000
      Maximum Possible Setting: 0x00000064
      Possible Settings increment: 0x00000001
      Possible Settings units: %
    Current AC Power Setting Index: 0x00000000
    Current DC Power Setting Index: 0x00000032
```

Look for the value 0x00000040

0x40 hex is equivalent to 84 decimal.


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## ShangWang (Sep 26, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> Open up a command window and type in
> 
> powercfg -qh >C:\power.txt
> 
> Copy and paste the data from the power.txt file into www.pastebin.com so I can have a look for this hidden setting. The power.txt file will be in your main C: directory after you run that command.


Command doesn't work for me, I get nothing in output.


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## unclewebb (Sep 26, 2021)

The output should end up in a file called power.txt in your C directory. Did you look for that file?


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## ShangWang (Sep 26, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> The output should end up in a file called power.txt in your C directory. Did you look for that file?


Found it, thanks.
power - Pastebin.com


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## unclewebb (Sep 26, 2021)

Here are the two settings for your computer. My desktop computer uses the first one. The Windows slider when you have a laptop might use the settings in the second one. You will need to experiment to see if you can change these.


```
Power Setting GUID: 36687f9e-e3a5-4dbf-b1dc-15eb381c6863  (Processor energy performance preference policy)
      GUID Alias: PERFEPP
      Minimum Possible Setting: 0x00000000
      Maximum Possible Setting: 0x00000064
      Possible Settings increment: 0x00000001
      Possible Settings units: %
    Current AC Power Setting Index: 0x00000000
    Current DC Power Setting Index: 0x00000046

    Power Setting GUID: 36687f9e-e3a5-4dbf-b1dc-15eb381c6864  (Processor energy performance preference policy for Processor Power Efficiency Class 1)
      GUID Alias: PERFEPP1
      Minimum Possible Setting: 0x00000000
      Maximum Possible Setting: 0x00000064
      Possible Settings increment: 0x00000001
      Possible Settings units: %
    Current AC Power Setting Index: 0x00000021
    Current DC Power Setting Index: 0x00000032
```

You can use this setting to go back to the default setting.

```
powercfg /setacvalueindex SCHEME_BALANCED SUB_PROCESSOR PERFEPP1 33

or

powercfg /setacvalueindex SCHEME_BALANCED SUB_PROCESSOR PERFEPP1 0x21
```

A setting of 33 is equivalent to 0x00000021 in hex. You can enter decimal values from 0 to 100 or hex values from 0x00 to 0x64 directly into that command.

The setacvalueindex allows you to make changes to the AC profile and use setdcvalueindex to make changes to the DC or battery profile.

The PERFEPP option allows you to change the first set of EPP values and the PERFEPP1 option allows you to change the second set of EPP values.

After you make a change, use ThrottleStop to cycle to a different power plan. Go from Balanced to High Performance and then back to Balanced so this change takes effect. You can also enter this command to force Windows to update EPP.

powercfg /s SCHEME_BALANCED

Make sure Speed Shift EPP is not checked in ThrottleStop. Now you can monitor the EPP value in the FIVR monitoring table. Let me know if you figure anything out. A Windows setting of 13 should get you close to EPP = 32

255 X 0.13 = 33

If you are not quite sure, tell me exactly what you are trying to do and I will try to come up with the appropriate command.

The default EPP 84 value comes from this

255 X 0.33 = 84

That is why when this is set to 33 or 0x21 hex, the CPU sets EPP to 84.


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## ShangWang (Sep 26, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> Here are the two settings for your computer. My desktop computer uses the first one. The Windows slider when you have a laptop might use the settings in the second one. You will need to experiment to see if you can change these.
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


Thanks for telling me how it works, but what I want to do is keep my EPP at 128. This is usually when I'm playing non-demanding games and whenever I'm just using the web browser which is what I do 90% of the time.

When plugged in I set the slider to best performance, when unplugged I set it to better battery.

The other 10% of the time is when I'm playing actual demanding games where I prefer EPP at 32 whenever I want.

If I wanted to switch between these two settings conveniently using only windows power slider, is that possible and if so with what commands?



unclewebb said:


> Here are the two settings for your computer. My desktop computer uses the first one. The Windows slider when you have a laptop might use the settings in the second one. You will need to experiment to see if you can change these.
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


I tried forcing EPP, when plugged in it just stays at 0 EPP no matter what with speedshift off. It just doesn't work. I honestly think throttlestop speedshift works better than windows.

When unplugged windows just overrides the EPP, but I only care about adjusting it when plugged in which is when I play games so it doesn't matter.



unclewebb said:


> Here are the two settings for your computer. My desktop computer uses the first one. The Windows slider when you have a laptop might use the settings in the second one. You will need to experiment to see if you can change these.
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


Ok throttlestop works really weird on laptop but I also think the windows power slider doesn't work too well on it either.

Now my laptop seems to adjust with throttlestop's EPP when plugged in and unplugged after restarting. Doesn't look like windows is fighting for control anymore.
I've given up trying to let window's do it's thing, the commands you gave me really don't work unfortunately :/

Do let me know if you have any other solution though!


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## unclewebb (Sep 27, 2021)

ShangWang said:


> I've given up trying to let window's do it's thing


I gave up trying to fight against Windows. You are correct that how Windows manages EPP can be hard to understand. Odd that it works one way when plugged in and works differently when running on battery power. I have a desktop computer so I just use the Windows High Performance power plan which automatically sets Speed Shift EPP to 0. I do not own a recent laptop that supports Speed Shift so I cannot help you figure out how Windows handles EPP on your laptop.



ShangWang said:


> I honestly think ThrottleStop Speed Shift works better than windows.


You answered your own question. Continue using ThrottleStop to manage Speed Shift EPP. At random times or when on battery power there might be fights with Windows over EPP and at other times, ThrottleStop will be in complete control of EPP. 



ShangWang said:


> I tried forcing EPP, when plugged in it just stays at 0 EPP no matter what with Speed Shift off.


If you let Windows manage EPP, some Windows power plans will force EPP to 0 for the first couple of minutes after booting up. After things settle down, the EPP value will randomly change to lower the CPU speed. This seems to be a Windows trick. Running the CPU at max speed helps to ensure a fast boot up. Windows undocumented control of EPP makes testing difficult.


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## ShangWang (Sep 27, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> I gave up trying to fight against Windows. You are correct that how Windows manages EPP can be hard to understand. Odd that it works one way when plugged in and works differently when running on battery power. I have a desktop computer so I just use the Windows High Performance power plan which automatically sets Speed Shift EPP to 0. I do not own a recent laptop that supports Speed Shift so I cannot help you figure out how Windows handles EPP on your laptop.
> 
> 
> You answered your own question. Continue using ThrottleStop to manage Speed Shift EPP. At random times or when on battery power there might be fights with Windows over EPP and at other times, ThrottleStop will be in complete control of EPP.
> ...


Yep, that makes sense but the thing is on battery mode it goes from 178 to 0 during regular use, not startup which is strange but when it's 0 it doesn't even go to max frequency, looking more like a number error.

I appreciate the help you gave either ways, in the future I think I might be able to let windows slider do it's thing if I can just change some values for the "best performance" and "better performance."

It seems to differ on battery mode where "best performance" is only 84 which is why this is likely an issue.

If you know how to change the values for both battery and AC mode that would be great and I could try it out.


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## unclewebb (Sep 27, 2021)

ShangWang said:


> If you know


All I know is what I posted above. You need to adjust the PERFEPP and PERFEPP1 values for both AC and DC to find out how Windows uses these values. After making any changes, you need to switch to a different power plan and then back to the one you are on.



ShangWang said:


> but when it's 0 it doesn't even go to max frequency, looking more like a number error.


If you see anything unusual, post a screenshot so I can see ThrottleStop and the FIVR monitoring table. Most laptops have the C states enabled so when lightly loaded, you might not see max frequency. 



ShangWang said:


> It seems to differ on battery mode where "best performance" is only 84


That is another Windows feature. The slider in the system tray works differently whether you are plugged in or on battery. Best Performance might use one EPP value when plugged in and a different EPP value when running on battery power. The PERFEPP setting might control one of these and PERFEPP1 might control the other. Have fun testing.


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## ShangWang (Sep 27, 2021)

Thanks, but I'm a bit confused about how to configure the EPP values on the slider.

How would I go with this process if I wanted to make both the AC and battery mode sliders the same?
What I want is "best performance" on both power modes to be *32* and "better performance" to be *128*. 

Do you think you could help guide me on doing that with the command you gave me? I don't know exactly how the command works, but here is how I think it works:

Let's say I was on AC mode and used powercfg /setacvalueindex SCHEME_BALANCED SUB_PROCESSOR PERFEPP 0x21. If I was on the "best performance" slider would this only apply to that slider?


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## unclewebb (Sep 27, 2021)

I do not have access to a laptop that uses Speed Shift Technology. On my desktop computer, I only need to adjust PERFEPP.

Do some Google searching for PERFEPP and PERFEPP1 and Speed Shift. There should be some more info out there somewhere. You will have to play around with these settings to try to figure out what they do on your laptop.


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## ShangWang (Sep 27, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> I do not have access to a laptop that uses Speed Shift Technology. On my desktop computer, I only need to adjust PERFEPP.
> 
> Do some Google searching for PERFEPP and PERFEPP1 and Speed Shift. There should be some more info out there somewhere. You will have to play around with these settings to try to figure out what they do on your laptop.


I see, but could you provide insight on how to do it on just desktop with just PERFEPP? I could try doing the same thing on battery mode and see if it works.

For example, are you able to adjust "best performance" to 32 and "better performance" to be 128 and could you tell me how on just one mode?


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## unclewebb (Sep 27, 2021)

ShangWang said:


> are you able to adjust "best performance" to 32 and "better performance" to be 128


Desktop computers do not use a power slider in the system tray. With a desktop computer, you can go into the Power Options and choose High Performance or Balanced or Power Saver. These three power plans set EPP to 0, 84, 153.

In Windows Power Saver, PERFEPP and PERFEPP1 are both set to 0x3C which is 60 in decimal.

255 X 0.60 = 153

so the default for this power plan sets EPP to 153. 

You might have to change both the PERFEPP and PERFEPP values. I have no idea how a laptop uses these settings. 

You can use the commands that I have listed to change these values. Only you can find out if making these changes accomplishes what you are trying to accomplish.


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## ShangWang (Sep 28, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> Desktop computers do not use a power slider in the system tray. With a desktop computer, you can go into the Power Options and choose High Performance or Balanced or Power Saver. These three power plans set EPP to 0, 84, 153.
> 
> In Windows Power Saver, PERFEPP and PERFEPP1 are both set to 0x3C which is 60 in decimal.
> 
> ...


I've also tried to disable speedstep, windows slider will work correctly but unfortunately there is no way to customize the values with the commands you've given. I'll be using throttlestop speedshift for now. Thank you for the help you've given.



unclewebb said:


> Desktop computers do not use a power slider in the system tray. With a desktop computer, you can go into the Power Options and choose High Performance or Balanced or Power Saver. These three power plans set EPP to 0, 84, 153.
> 
> In Windows Power Saver, PERFEPP and PERFEPP1 are both set to 0x3C which is 60 in decimal.
> 
> ...


Just wondering, should I leave *speed step* on? It doesn't seem to conflict with EPP and just helps save power overall.

Also does the windows power slider do anything other than change EPP? Will it affect other performance factors? The description for what the different modes do are very vague on the website: Customize the Windows performance power slider | Microsoft Docs



unclewebb said:


> Desktop computers do not use a power slider in the system tray. With a desktop computer, you can go into the Power Options and choose High Performance or Balanced or Power Saver. These three power plans set EPP to 0, 84, 153.
> 
> In Windows Power Saver, PERFEPP and PERFEPP1 are both set to 0x3C which is 60 in decimal.
> 
> ...


Edit: I seem to be able to edit the values in AC mode, but not battery mode but the settings do not change for "best performance." Better performance and better battery mode will share the same values given in the command you gave me. I think I will be able to adjust to this without having to use speedshift.

However, I'm still wondering if all the windows power slider does is change EPP or not.


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## unclewebb (Sep 28, 2021)

When Speed Shift is enabled, SpeedStep enabled or disabled makes no difference. SpeedStep is no longer used.



ShangWang said:


> I'm still wondering if all the windows power slider does is change EPP or not.


I am not sure what the power slider can control. It might also change the screen brightness. I do not have access to a Speed Shift aware laptop so I cannot do any testing.


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## ShangWang (Sep 28, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> When Speed Shift is enabled, SpeedStep enabled or disabled makes no difference. SpeedStep is no longer used.
> 
> 
> I am not sure what the power slider can control. It might also change the screen brightness. I do not have access to a Speed Shift aware laptop so I cannot do any testing.


Doesn't change the brightness, from what I know EPP is the same on better battery and better performance, but maybe better performance might favor a little bit more performance than battery saving.


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## unclewebb (Sep 28, 2021)

ShangWang said:


> EPP is the same on better battery and better performance


Some laptops use the exact same EPP value for different settings. It makes people feel good when they believe that they can get better performance or better battery life. The reality is that if EPP is the same then there is no difference to performance or battery life. 

I have not been able to measure any real world performance difference whether EPP is set to 32 or 84. EPP controls how much load it takes to get the CPU up to full speed. With either setting, the CPU should have no problem maintaining maximum speed when it is loaded. As soon as you start playing a game, the CPU is loaded so performance is probably exactly the same. 

I found that if EPP is increased to 128 or beyond, maximum performance will start to decrease.


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## ShangWang (Sep 28, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> Some laptops use the exact same EPP value for different settings. It makes people feel good when they believe that they can get better performance or better battery life. The reality is that if EPP is the same then there is no difference to performance or battery life.
> 
> I have not been able to measure any real world performance difference whether EPP is set to 32 or 84. EPP controls how much load it takes to get the CPU up to full speed. With either setting, the CPU should have no problem maintaining maximum speed when it is loaded. As soon as you start playing a game, the CPU is loaded so performance is probably exactly the same.
> 
> I found that if EPP is increased to 128 or beyond, maximum performance will start to decrease.


I think QuickCPU was causing some additional issues since I realized the "performance" slider actually changes EPP and I had no idea. Uninstalled.

It essentially changed window's default EPP in the same way you gave me the commands but caused the EPP value to sometimes be shown as "0." On battery mode I still cannot customize EPP values but that's not an issue.

I can configure the middle slider on AC, I think this is the extent to what can be changed. Thank you again for going through this with me.



unclewebb said:


> Some laptops use the exact same EPP value for different settings. It makes people feel good when they believe that they can get better performance or better battery life. The reality is that if EPP is the same then there is no difference to performance or battery life.
> 
> I have not been able to measure any real world performance difference whether EPP is set to 32 or 84. EPP controls how much load it takes to get the CPU up to full speed. With either setting, the CPU should have no problem maintaining maximum speed when it is loaded. As soon as you start playing a game, the CPU is loaded so performance is probably exactly the same.
> 
> I found that if EPP is increased to 128 or beyond, maximum performance will start to decrease.


One last thing I'd like to ask is does throttlestop ever park cores? Does it usually utilize all threads at all times and is it even possible for it to park cores?  https://prnt.sc/1u3gtb6
I found these settings by default, can you tell me what the C7% means for the CPU cores and if my settings are fine?


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## unclewebb (Sep 29, 2021)

ShangWang said:


> does ThrottleStop ever park cores?


ThrottleStop does not have any core parking features. I have never found a need for core parking. Intel CPU cores automatically enter the low power C7 state when they are not being used.



ShangWang said:


> Does it usually utilize all threads at all times


Windows and the CPU control what tasks run on what cores. ThrottleStop has nothing to do with this.

Here is an example of my computer when it is idle. The individual cores are spending 99% of the time in the low power C7 state.







Most people have a lot of useless stuff running in the background 24/7. Apps are randomly installed with no regard to how those apps impact their computer. This is why computers tend to slow down over time. Too many background tasks sucking up CPU cycles when they really do not need to be doing that. 

Open the Task Manager, go to the Details tab and have a look for anything running on your computer that does not need to be running all of the time. Your average core C7 percent shows that there is room for improvement.


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## ShangWang (Sep 29, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> ThrottleStop does not have any core parking features. I have never found a need for core parking. Intel CPU cores automatically enter the low power C7 state when they are not being used.
> 
> 
> Windows and the CPU control what tasks run on what cores. ThrottleStop has nothing to do with this.
> ...


Thank you for the explanation, it seems like there's nothing in the background I can get rid of so this is as far as I would go.
Sorry again for asking so many things this should be the last, I tried looking up what C states AC does, my best guess is checking it will kick CPU into a high performance state or something like that?


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## unclewebb (Sep 29, 2021)

The C States AC function allows users to toggle the C States on or off. Some users that use their computers for music production hate the C states because they can cause latency and pops and ticks when recording. Most laptops do not have any options to disable the C states in the BIOS so this is a useful feature for some users. This feature only works when plugged in while you are running on AC power. 

If you are feeling lucky and want to try this, Check the C States AC box, select Off and then press Apply. You should see all of the C state percentages change to 0 in the monitoring table. Not having the C states enabled will increase idle power consumption and this will add some heat to your system.

When you are finished testing, check the C States AC box and select the On option and press Apply. This is making a change to whatever Windows power plan you are currently using. Make sure to reset this to C States On if you do not want to use this feature.


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## ShangWang (Sep 29, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> The C States AC function allows users to toggle the C States on or off. Some users that use their computers for music production hate the C states because they can cause latency and pops and ticks when recording. Most laptops do not have any options to disable the C states in the BIOS so this is a useful feature for some users. This feature only works when plugged in while you are running on AC power.
> 
> If you are feeling lucky and want to try this, Check the C States AC box, select Off and then press Apply. You should see all of the C state percentages change to 0 in the monitoring table. Not having the C states enabled will increase idle power consumption and this will add some heat to your system.
> 
> When you are finished testing, check the C States AC box and select the On option and press Apply. This is making a change to whatever Windows power plan you are currently using. Make sure to reset this to C States On if you do not want to use this feature.


Definitely not for me, I believe the defaults for C states are the best but thank you for the info again.

So I do not have to pester you hopefully in the future is there a site that you can refer me to so I can look at everything throttlestop does and has to offer? This website I found useful was limited to only more relevant info: The ThrottleStop Guide (2021): How to Lower Temperatures, Increase Performance and Boost Battery Life (ultrabookreview.com)


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## unclewebb (Sep 29, 2021)

I add new features faster than I document them. If you have a new question just ask. Answering questions keeps me busy.


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## ShangWang (Sep 29, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> I add new features faster than I document them. If you have a new question just ask. Answering questions keeps me busy.


Oh wow you're the author I had no idea!
In that case there is another thing I'm wondering about:

For some reason on AC mode with EPP set at 84 on better performance my Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8300H CPU @ 2.30GHz only runs up to 2.2GHz, but if I enable speedshift even on 128 it does allow it to go to 2.30Ghz. This is not an issue on best performance.

Is this a normal feature on windows or is this possibly because of the settings from QuickCPU even after uninstallation? Is there anyway to fix this?









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## unclewebb (Sep 29, 2021)

ShangWang said:


> the settings from QuickCPU even after uninstallation?


I do not know what long term changes QuickCPU can make to the Windows power plan. If you are done using QuickCPU, I would open the Power Options and I would try resetting your Windows power plan. Push the Restore plan defaults button.





If your CPU is being limited to 2.2 GHz, check to see what Speed Shift Max is set to in the TPL window. 
This is one way to limit the maximum CPU speed but there are several others.


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## ShangWang (Sep 29, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> If your CPU is being limited to 2.2 GHz, check to see what Speed Shift Max is set to in the TPL window.


Resetting the plan didn't seem to work and speedshift isn't limiting anything, it will work on speedshift but not on windows default. I believe these are changes made by QuickCPU I could not remove earlier. https://prnt.sc/1u473em


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## unclewebb (Sep 29, 2021)

You do not have the Speed Shift option checked so ThrottleStop is not doing anything to adjust this.

Edit - The basics are always the same. In the TPL window, check the MMIO Lock box, clear the Disable Power Limit Control box, check the Speed Shift box and set Power Limit 4 to 0. Those adjustments can fix a wide variety of throttling problems.


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## ShangWang (Sep 29, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> You do not have the Speed Shift option checked so ThrottleStop is not doing anything to adjust this.


I enabled it and put the laptop to sleep, it did not seem to take affect unfortunately and likely only works with speedshift on. I will try using QuickCPU to fix these changes later on.

For now do you know what these limits are? I remember there was only one limit each for CPU and GPU but they disappeared when I clicked on them, do you know what they might have been and am I still ok?








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## unclewebb (Sep 29, 2021)

When your laptop shows SST in green on the main screen of ThrottleStop, Speed Shift is enabled. In the TPL window, you have to check the Speed Shift box if you want the Speed Shift Min and Max values sent to the CPU. If these values are not being sent to the CPU, then any software on your computer or Windows can change these.



ShangWang said:


> I will try using QuickCPU


Use QuickCPU or use ThrottleStop but do not use both programs at the same time. They can both write different values to some of the same CPU registers. You will end up with conflicts and the CPU not knowing what it should be doing.

I believe the two boxes at the top of Limit Reasons show BD PROCHOT throttling. I recommend clearing the BD PROCHOT box on the main screen of ThrottleStop. This type of throttling has proved to be excessive and completely unnecessary for most computers. When the BD PROCHOT box is clear, your CPU will still be able to thermal throttle and slow down if it ever gets too hot. BD PROCHOT and PROCHOT (processor hot) are two different things.

Edit - Check what your turbo ratios are set to in the FIVR window. This is another way to limit your CPU speed.


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## ShangWang (Sep 29, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> Edit - Check what your turbo ratios are set to in the FIVR window. This is another way to limit your CPU speed.


27 at the very least, I've only noticed my CPU speed is stuck at 2.2Ghz WITHOUT enabling speedshift because I've had speedshift on all the time.


unclewebb said:


> Use QuickCPU or use ThrottleStop but do not use both programs at the same time



I reinstalled QuickCPU to try to revert the Ghz changes, it seems on AC mode it has a weird speedshift setting with 2.0 ghz min to 2.2 ghz max. I set the max to 4.0ghz, applied changes, uninstalled and my ghz is still stuck at 2.2 ghz without speedshift. I am trying to see if anyone knows how to revert this without a system restore.

I cleared limit reasons for now, I'm assuming whatever limits I enabled will come back if I don't disable them.

If all else fails, is it honestly that bad to use speedshift? It only "conflicts" on battery mode and windows doesn't even allow EPP changes to be overwrriten.


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## unclewebb (Sep 30, 2021)

ShangWang said:


> I've only noticed my CPU speed is stuck at 2.2Ghz WITHOUT enabling speedshift


If you are having a problem with your CPU and checking the Speed Shift option in ThrottleStop solves that problem then I would be checking Speed Shift. 



ShangWang said:


> I cleared limit reasons for now


The Limit Reasons data is constantly updated every second in ThrottleStop. Clearing this data does not prevent the CPU from throttling.


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## ShangWang (Sep 30, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> If you are having a problem with your CPU and checking the Speed Shift option in ThrottleStop solves that problem then I would be checking Speed Shift.


Yep, I would. It's not a big deal to lose 100ghz when I'm not playing games so I'll keep it off and find a solution to fix it hopefully in the future.


unclewebb said:


> The Limit Reasons data is constantly updated every second in ThrottleStop. Clearing this data does not prevent the CPU from throttling.


I see, this is what the limits got updated to: https://prnt.sc/1u6876s
I believe thermal is the prochot at 95 deg but what are PL1 and 2? What does the EDP ring dictate?


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## unclewebb (Sep 30, 2021)

EDP OTHER lights up under the RING column whenever PL1, PL2 or THERMAL light up under the CORE column. It is the CORE column that you have to watch. PL1 and PL2 are the two turbo power limits.


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## ShangWang (Sep 30, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> EDP OTHER lights up under the RING column whenever PL1, PL2 or THERMAL light up under the CORE column. It is the CORE column that you have to watch. PL1 and PL2 are the two turbo power limits.


Thanks, though I'm a bit confused, why are there 2 of them? Does lighting up in the core column mean throttling has occured?

Do you also think there might be any other TPL settings that I can experiment with to possibly fix my base frequency?: https://prnt.sc/1u6cxhr


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## unclewebb (Sep 30, 2021)

ShangWang said:


> why are there 2 of them?


That is how Intel CPUs work. There is a short term power limit called PL2. The CPU is allowed to run at this power level for a short period of time. There is also a long term power limit called PL1. During any long term stress test, the CPU will be limited to PL1.



ShangWang said:


> Does lighting up in the core column mean throttling has occured?


Yes. Yellow boxes are a record of any previous throttling and red boxes indicate throttling is in progress.



ShangWang said:


> possibly fix my base frequency?


What is wrong with your base frequency? I would be more concerned with the 34°C difference in your maximum core temperatures. Time to redo the thermal paste.


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## ShangWang (Sep 30, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> What is wrong with your base frequency? I would be more concerned with the 34°C difference in your maximum core temperatures. Time to redo the thermal paste.


Yeah, I might have messed up the thermal paste a bit but I don't mind the temps as long as it doesn't cause throttling. Haven't noticed any performance issues with heat so I'm likely repasting next year.

As mentioned before QuickCPU likely caused my max frequency WITHOUT speedshift to be stuck at 2.2Ghz max when using the power slider on "better battery/better performance."

It can never reach 2.3Ghz unless I put the slider to "Best performance" which will set EPP to 0 all the time or turn on speedshift which will cause windows EPP control interference as you said. So I'm wondering if there's anything else you know I can do or if this 100 Ghz base frequency down is normal and fine when not gaming.


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## ShangWang (Oct 11, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> That is how Intel CPUs work. There is a short term power limit called PL2. The CPU is allowed to run at this power level for a short period of time. There is also a long term power limit called PL1. During any long term stress test, the CPU will be limited to PL1.
> 
> 
> Yes. Yellow boxes are a record of any previous throttling and red boxes indicate throttling is in progress.
> ...


Hello, I just wanted to update you that having 0.10Ghz reduced from the max on better performance or better battery is completely normal, QuickCPU had nothing to do with it. It's a feature on windows to save power but not hinder performance.

Edit: Nope never mind, setting max frequency to 99% does this, I had no idea that it would reduce the base down 100mhz.


unclewebb said:


> That is how Intel CPUs work. There is a short term power limit called PL2. The CPU is allowed to run at this power level for a short period of time. There is also a long term power limit called PL1. During any long term stress test, the CPU will be limited to PL1.
> 
> 
> Yes. Yellow boxes are a record of any previous throttling and red boxes indicate throttling is in progress.
> ...


Also just curious, why is frequency measured by multiplying by 100mhz? How come some frequencies are not exactly multiplied by 100? It seems mine is 99.768








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unclewebb said:


> That is how Intel CPUs work. There is a short term power limit called PL2. The CPU is allowed to run at this power level for a short period of time. There is also a long term power limit called PL1. During any long term stress test, the CPU will be limited to PL1.
> 
> 
> Yes. Yellow boxes are a record of any previous throttling and red boxes indicate throttling is in progress.
> ...


Do you also know if there's any possibility that speedshift TPL values for min and max conflict with windows as well? I've never had it checked before but disabling turbo boost and setting a max seems to work just fine.

Do you recommend enabling the TPL value anyway? Does closing the throttlestop application reset speedshift min and max by windows on sleep wake up?









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## ShangWang (Oct 17, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> That is how Intel CPUs work. There is a short term power limit called PL2. The CPU is allowed to run at this power level for a short period of time. There is also a long term power limit called PL1. During any long term stress test, the CPU will be limited to PL1.
> 
> 
> Yes. Yellow boxes are a record of any previous throttling and red boxes indicate throttling is in progress.
> ...


Hi again, I was just wondering if you knew what "size" means in TS Bench. What does the M stand for?








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## unclewebb (Oct 17, 2021)

ShangWang said:


> size


The size of the problem being solved.



ShangWang said:


> M








						Metric (SI) Prefixes
					






					www.nist.gov


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## ShangWang (Oct 17, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> The size of the problem being solved.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I see, thanks.
Do you know if there's any real difference between EPP and minimum processor state? They seem to do the same thing.


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## unclewebb (Oct 17, 2021)

ShangWang said:


> EPP and minimum processor state


Those are two different things. 

What are you trying to accomplish?


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## ShangWang (Oct 17, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> Those are two different things.
> 
> What are you trying to accomplish?


Just curious on how they differ and how they can affect performance.
My guess is minimum is a hard range for what the frequency can be, and EPP is how often the system will prefer a higher frequency.


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## ShangWang (Nov 5, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> You do not have the Speed Shift option checked so ThrottleStop is not doing anything to adjust this.
> 
> Edit - The basics are always the same. In the TPL window, check the MMIO Lock box, clear the Disable Power Limit Control box, check the Speed Shift box and set Power Limit 4 to 0. Those adjustments can fix a wide variety of throttling problems.


Hi again, could you briefly explain what the things you mentioned do? This is what my TPL looked like by default except the speedshift box being checked:
I'm not having any throttling issues but I'm wondering if making the changes you described actually does anything for me.


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## unclewebb (Nov 5, 2021)

ShangWang said:


> I'm not having any throttling issues


Your screenshot shows that Speed Shift Max is set to 30 instead of 40. That means you are throttling your computer. Not sure why anyone would do that but I will assume that you are doing this to reduce heat.

Checking the MMIO Lock box disables the MMIO power limit from controlling your CPU. Some laptops randomly change this power limit to ridiculously low vales. If you do not have that problem then you do not need to check the Lock option. If you do have that problem, checking the Lock box prevents this power limit from being changed.

Clearing the Disable Power Limit Control box ensures that the MSR power limits are maintained at the requested values of 45W, 56W and 28 seconds. When this box is checked, ThrottleStop will ignore any changes that your computer might make to the MSR power limits. If the MSR power limits are not being changed by your computer, and if you are happy with the default 45W and 56W power limits, you do not need to clear the Disable Power Limit Control box.

ThrottleStop reports what the power limits are set to in real time. If your computer makes any changes, the new values will show up in this monitoring panel. This currently shows that everything is OK. Your CPU has all of the power limits set to their default values.


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## ShangWang (Dec 12, 2021)

Hello, I just wanted to confirm that the save function in throttlestop is only there to save settings once you restart your computer? I notice the settings I applied remain even when I switch profiles.


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