# Which soundcard to decode DTS or Dolby Digital?



## Horrux (Oct 2, 2013)

I want to play movies and games on my PS3 (and soon PS4), and decode the highest possible audio format for output to analog speakers.

I also need a high sound quality (currently satisfied with an Auzentech Prelude) for both gaming and movies/music.

Which sound card is my best bet?

Thanks


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## Dent1 (Oct 2, 2013)

Horrux said:


> I want to play movies and games on my PS3 (and soon PS4), and decode the highest possible audio format for output to analog speakers.
> 
> I also need a high sound quality (currently satisfied with an Auzentech Prelude) for both gaming and movies/music.
> 
> ...



You don't need a soundcard. Your solution has nothing to do with computers or soundcards.

You need a AV receiver which supports DD and DTS. Your PS3 will connect directly to the receiver via SPDIF or HDMI.


Your Prelude is as good as a soundcard as you can buy (although buggy), it will connect directly to the AV receiver, likewise will your PS3/PS4.


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## Horrux (Oct 2, 2013)

Dent1 said:


> You don't need a soundcard. Your solution has nothing to do with computers or soundcards.
> 
> You need a AV receiver which supports DD and DTS. Your PS3 will connect directly to the receiver via SPDIF or HDMI.
> 
> Your Prelude is as good as a soundcard as you can buy (although buggy), it will connect directly to the AV receiver, likewise will your PS3/PS4.



Wait, so it's my question that's wrong? Why did I ask that question then? Is this question against the rules?

I WANT A SOUND CARD TO DECODE DD AND DTS IS THAT CLEAR?

I know about receivers. That's not the question OK?


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## Dent1 (Oct 2, 2013)

Horrux said:


> Wait, so it's my question that's wrong? Why did I ask that question then? Is this question against the rules??



I knew what you meant, but your question made little sense. So I had to correct you before I could give you the correct solution.




Horrux said:


> I WANT A SOUND CARD TO DECODE DD AND DTS IS THAT CLEAR?
> 
> I know about receivers. That's not the question OK?



A soundcard can not decode  DD and DTS from your PS3. You need AV receiver to do what you want.


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## cheesy999 (Oct 2, 2013)

Dent1 said:


> I knew what you meant, but your question made little sense. So I had to correct you before I could give you the correct solution.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



To add to this you'll need powered speakers for most sound cards, ordinary analog speakers need far more power than most sound cards provide


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## Horrux (Oct 2, 2013)

I just happen to have good powered 5.1 computer speakers without a DD or DTS decoder.


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## Dent1 (Oct 2, 2013)

Horrux said:


> I just happen to have good powered 5.1 computer speakers without a DD or DTS decoder.



What cheesy said was just a general comment.  It doesnt effect the outcome of your solution.

Also DTS cant be transferred through an analogue cable. What speaker system do you have?


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## Horrux (Oct 2, 2013)

Dent1 said:


> What cheesy said was just a general comment.  It doesnt effect the outcome of your solution.
> 
> Also DTS cant be transferred through an analogue cable. What speaker system do you have?


The signal is sent from the PS3 to the Auzentech over optical connection, as explained before.

The speakers are Cambridge, and the amp is something else... I don't know what it is, but it doesn't do DTS or DD, although it amplifies all 6 speakers well.


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## Dent1 (Oct 3, 2013)

Horrux said:


> I want to play movies and games on my PS3 (and soon PS4), and decode the highest possible audio format for output to analog speakers.






Horrux said:


> The signal is sent from the PS3 to the Auzentech over optical connection, as explained before.
> 
> The speakers are Cambridge, and the amp is something else... I don't know what it is, but it doesn't do DTS or DD, although it amplifies all 6 speakers well.



Understood, but you said the speakers are analogue. Which is already a barrier.

Either way it won't work, because the soundcard's input will convert the existing DTS or DD bit streams into PCM 2.0.

In theory you should get audio in stereo through SPDIF-IN. But you can't select Dolby Digital Live or DTS connect as that is reserved for SPDIF-OUT and a DD/DTS compatible receiver.


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## Horrux (Oct 3, 2013)

I don't understand why a receiver is inherently capable where a sound card isn't. It just doesn't make sense to me.


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## Dent1 (Oct 3, 2013)

Horrux said:


> I don't understand why a receiver is inherently capable where a sound card isn't. It just doesn't make sense to me.



Because they're two different devices for two different (but similar) purposes.


Also Dolby Laboratories require that decoding is done on a certified receiver. If soundcard's did this decoding via SPDIF-IN they could be in breach.


On a positive note.

The prelude does support Dolby Digital Live, so you could enable that out of the box via SPDIF-OUT. That'll ensure you get DD on your music and games on your PC. A receiver and a digital connection is still needed but that is as close as Dolby will get to licensing their technology. SPDIF-IN won't happen.


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## Maban (Oct 3, 2013)

It's a DRM limitation of sorts I believe. A computer is capable but there isn't really any way you could get it to work I believe. I tried it once with a 360. I could get stereo from TOSLINK to PC to speakers but surround was a no-go.


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## Frick (Oct 3, 2013)

All this here is why I can't be bothered with anything beyond stereo. It's a mess.


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## Dent1 (Oct 3, 2013)

Frick said:


> All this here is why I can't be bothered with anything beyond stereo. It's a mess.



No it isn't a mess. People just want short cuts.

You connect your AV receiver to your Dolby Digital Live supported soundcard via SPDIF or HDMI. Simple.  I've been doing it for years.

Likewise you connect your AV receiver to any other third party devices, PS3, Xbox, Satellite TV etc. via SPDIF or HDMI.

Just you get people who cheap out, they don't want to buy the receiver or don't want to buy the correct soundcard so they think of a crazy work around. Then they "blame" creative or "blame" drivers then say its impossible.


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## Horrux (Oct 3, 2013)

Well, meantime, until I revamp the entire sound system, which is planned, but not very soon, the AAC sound format will serve. I think it does support 5.1? Should be good enough for now, I guess.


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## Dent1 (Oct 3, 2013)

Horrux said:


> Well, meantime, until I revamp the entire sound system, which is planned, but not very soon, the AAC sound format will serve. I think it does support 5.1? Should be good enough for now, I guess.



AAC can support 5.1 in theory. But in reality it usually always 2.0. This was the main selling point of Dolby Digital Live or DTS connect, as the user doesn't have to care about the file format because it was getting converted regardless and just works. 

Get an entry level home theatre in a box. The cheapest way to achieving what you want. 

http://www.richersounds.com/product/speaker-packages/pioneer/htp071/pion-htp071


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## Horrux (Oct 4, 2013)

Dent1 said:


> AAC can support 5.1 in theory. But in reality it usually always 2.0. This was the main selling point of Dolby Digital Live or DTS connect, as the user doesn't have to care about the file format because it was getting converted regardless and just works.
> 
> Get an entry level home theatre in a box. The cheapest way to achieving what you want.
> 
> http://www.richersounds.com/product/speaker-packages/pioneer/htp071/pion-htp071



No, that will probably sound much worse than my computer speakers*.


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## Dent1 (Oct 5, 2013)

Horrux said:


> No, that will probably sound much worse than my computer speakers*.



It's a stepping stone. You only want the receiver, the speakers can be upgraded later.

Even without the speakers 149.95 is good value for money.


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## FR@NK (Oct 5, 2013)

Dent1 said:


> It's a stepping stone. You only want the receiver, the speakers can be upgraded later.
> 
> Even without the speakers 149.95 is good value for money.



I agree, thats a good start. Once you get a receiver you can ditch your soundcard and run the audio out of your HDMI video card. HDMI audio is much better then anything you transmit over optical.

You should be able to use your powered computer speakers by connecting them to the preouts if you think they will sound better.


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## Horrux (Oct 5, 2013)

FR@NK said:


> I agree, thats a good start. Once you get a receiver you can ditch your soundcard and run the audio out of your HDMI video card. HDMI audio is much better then anything you transmit over optical.
> 
> You should be able to use your powered computer speakers by connecting them to the preouts if you think they will sound better.



Really? All the fancy 3D sound processing my X-Fi does will also happen on the video card? I know AMD has announced something for their R9 series, but what about my GTX 580s?


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## Mussels (Oct 5, 2013)

you're asking about DD/DDL into your PC, decoded, and sent back out as analogue yes?

cant be done easily. you will need a receiver to make it work properly.


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## The Von Matrices (Oct 5, 2013)

If you want to use your speakers' integrated amplifier, then get a cheap receiver with analog pre-outs; the quality of the receiver's integrated amplifier doesn't matter since you wouldn't be using it.  You can just get three 3.5mm to stereo RCA adapters and then connect your computer speakers to the analog pre-outs.  You would just use the receiver as a source selector and decoder.

Also consider getting one with multichannel analog inputs if you don't want to use HDMI or TOSLINK to connect the sound card to the receiver; that way you can connect the discrete sound from your computer's sound card to the receiver with unprocessed analog cables instead of using DDL/DTS.  I know I did the exact same thing with my home receiver about a decade ago, before uncompressed digital audio output on PCs (via HDMI) came out and simplified everything.

From what I interpret, you care about the audio quality and not just getting this to work.  I can understand you wanting to use the audio processing of the computer sound card, but I highly would suggest using a native HDMI output from the Playstation rather than the optical cable.   If you have good equipment, which it seems like you do, the losslessly compressed audio (10+Mb/s) _does_ sound much better than Dolby Digital (640Kb/s) or even DTS (1.5Mb/s)


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## Horrux (Oct 5, 2013)

The Von Matrices said:


> If you want to use your speakers' integrated amplifier, then get a cheap receiver with analog pre-outs; the quality of the receiver's integrated amplifier doesn't matter since you wouldn't be using it.  You can just get three 3.5mm to stereo RCA adapters and then connect your computer speakers to the analog pre-outs.  You would just use the receiver as a source selector and decoder.
> 
> Also consider getting one with multichannel analog inputs if you don't want to use HDMI or TOSLINK to connect the sound card to the receiver; that way you can connect the discrete sound from your computer's sound card to the receiver with unprocessed analog cables instead of using DDL/DTS.  I know I did the exact same thing with my home receiver about a decade ago, before uncompressed digital audio output on PCs (via HDMI) came out and simplified everything.
> 
> From what I interpret, you care about the audio quality and not just getting this to work.  I can understand you wanting to use the audio processing of the computer sound card, but I highly would suggest using a native HDMI output from the Playstation rather than the optical cable.   If you have good equipment, which it seems like you do, the *losslessly compressed audio (10+Mb/s) does sound much better than Dolby Digital (640Kb/s) or even DTS (1.5Mb/s)*



Oh, thanks, that last bit clarifies a lot! And here I thought DD and DTS were the most incredible experience ever! Thanks for shining the light on the dark areas of my knowledge of audio formats!


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## Dent1 (Oct 5, 2013)

FR@NK said:


> I agree, thats a good start. Once you get a receiver you can ditch your soundcard and run the audio out of your HDMI video card. HDMI audio is much better then anything you transmit over optical.
> 
> You should be able to use your powered computer speakers by connecting them to the preouts if you think they will sound better.





Horrux said:


> Really? All the fancy 3D sound processing my X-Fi does will also happen on the video card? I know AMD has announced something for their R9 series, but what about my GTX 580s?



Me personally as someone that has had the Prelude, and numerous of other soundcards in the last few years as well as experience HDMI-out via my video card(s). I would keep the Prelude just for Dolby Digital Live Encoding if nothing else. The benefit of HDMI is mostly on the HD audio soundtracks found on some bluray discs i.e.  LPCM 7.1, DD Tue HD,  DTS HD Masters, PCM 7.1.  But this is a limited scenario. Better off using the Prelude for Dolby Digital Encoding in windows and PC gaming and then set media player to switch to the video card's HDMI upon detection of a bluray disc so you get best of both world.


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The Von Matrices said:


> but I highly would suggest using a native HDMI output from the Playstation rather than the optical cable.   If you have good equipment, which it seems like you do, the losslessly compressed audio (10+Mb/s) _does_ sound much better than Dolby Digital (640Kb/s) or even DTS (1.5Mb/s)






Horrux said:


> Oh, thanks, that last bit clarifies a lot! And here I thought DD and DTS were the most incredible experience ever! Thanks for shining the light on the dark areas of my knowledge of audio formats!



It makes little difference whether you connect the PS3 with HDMI-out or SPDIF-out in terms of audio quality because the bitrate of DD and DTS is fixed and compressed even on HDMI-out. The only formats which are uncompressed are LPCM 7.1, DD True HD and DTS HD Masters which not found on PS3 games, they are reserved for (some) blue ray discs.


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## The Von Matrices (Oct 6, 2013)

Dent1 said:


> It makes little difference whether you connect the PS3 with HDMI-out or SPDIF-out in terms of audio quality because the bitrate of DD and DTS is fixed and compressed even on HDMI-out. The only formats which are uncompressed are LPCM 7.1, DD True HD and DTS HD Masters which not found on PS3 games, they are reserved for (some) blue ray discs.



That's not exactly true.  The PS3 doesn't support encoding of Dolby True HD or DTS HD Master Audio, so it can only pass though pre-encoded soundtracks on Blu-ray discs (and only on the slim or super slim models).  However, all PS3 versions _can_ output LPCM up to 7.1 for both games and Blu-ray discs.


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## Dent1 (Oct 6, 2013)

The Von Matrices said:


> That's not exactly true.  The PS3 doesn't support encoding of Dolby True HD or DTS HD Master Audio, so it can only pass though pre-encoded soundtracks on Blu-ray discs (and only on the slim or super slim models).



That is exactly what I said. 



The Von Matrices said:


> However, all PS3 versions _can_ output LPCM up to 7.1 for both games and Blu-ray discs.



Didn't know some PS3 games support LPCM. I would have thought PCM 5.0 by bypassing the built in DD/DTS encoder.  I wonder how many games actually support LPCM.


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## The Von Matrices (Oct 6, 2013)

Dent1 said:


> Didn't know some PS3 games support LPCM. I would have thought PCM 5.0 by bypassing the built in DD/DTS encoder.  I wonder how many games actually support LPCM.



_All_ PS3 games have to support LPCM; it was part of the original specifications of the console.  2 channel LPCM is the minimum required, but up to 7.1 is supported.  It's up to the game designers as to how many sound output channels they want to support.

There are two possible implementation of DD/DTS in games on the PS3.  By default, a game designer programs their game to output just LPCM and then the PS3 system software takes that LPCM and encodes it into DD/DTS if that is the highest supported output (as chosen in the PS3 system software audio settings).  But in some higher end games, the game designer can license the DD or DTS encoder software directly, implement it into game code, and tune it specifically to their game so that the best audio quality is possible within the specification.  These are the games that prominently display the Dolby Digital or DTS logos in their games.  Games that fit into the second case still have to support LPCM though (only two channel is required, but if multi-channel audio is already programmed into the game, it's trivial to tell the software to bypass the encoder).

I have not come across a PS3 game that supports multi-channel audio only though DD/DTS and not through LPCM.  As long as you select to prefer bitstreaming (i.e. avoid decoding) in the PS3 system software, you can tell this pretty easily.  With this setting, if the only surround format available is DD/DTS, the PS3 will always choose to bitstream DD/DTS over decoding it and outputting it over multi channel LPCM; the only way you could get LPCM in this mode is if it was a native soundtrack.  So if the PS3 is outputting multi channel LPCM and the bitstreaming option is enabled, then you are not just decoding DD/DTS.

The XBOX 360, in contrast, does not support greater than 2 channel LPCM for games, so it has to output Dolby Digital via HDMI for multi-channel audio (DTS encoding is not supported).  It's still up to the game designer whether they just want to use Microsoft's built in implementation of the DD encoder or to pay to license it directly and get better control over the encoding parameters.

This is, for the few console games I do play, one of the reasons I choose the PS3 versions of games.


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## Dent1 (Oct 6, 2013)

The Von Matrices said:


> _All_ PS3 games have to support LPCM; it was part of the original specifications of the console.  2 channel LPCM is the minimum required, but up to 7.1 is supported.  It's up to the game designers as to how many sound output channels they want to support.



DD and DTS are also part of the specification. Realistically how many games support LPCM 7.1?  Personally I'm not a fan of it, requires too much room space for little support. I think game developers know this and cater for DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1. I think game developers are lazy so 90% of the time they'll have 5 uncompressed audio channels to fulfil the LPCM obligation and use built in DD/DTS encoder to fill the DD and DTS obligations.


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## The Von Matrices (Oct 7, 2013)

Dent1 said:


> Personally I'm not a fan of it, requires too much room space for little support. I think game developers know this and cater for DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1. I think game developers are lazy so 90% of the time they'll have 5 uncompressed audio channels to fulfil the LPCM obligation and use built in DD/DTS encoder to fill the DD and DTS obligations.



The one thing you're forgetting is that Sony has Blu-ray disc in the PS3.  On the X360 developers are looking to cut corners to fit games on a minimum number of DVDs, and the sound quality can suffer for that.  When you have a multiplatform game designed to fit on DVDs and find yourself with extra space on a Blu-ray disc, one of the easiest ways to use this space is to put less compressed sound files on the disc.  Lossless audio isn't likely to be used, but 256/320kbps MP3 samples mixed onto LPCM would sound much better than Dolby Digital.


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## springs113 (Oct 7, 2013)

The Von Matrices said:


> That's not exactly true.  The PS3 doesn't support encoding of Dolby True HD or DTS HD Master Audio, so it can only pass though pre-encoded soundtracks on Blu-ray discs (and only on the slim or super slim models).  However, all PS3 versions _can_ output LPCM up to 7.1 for both games and Blu-ray discs.



Last I remember the first gen(40&60) ps3 do it was the slimline and the other subsequent models that don't.

To the OP, have you also checked out AVForums?


The Von Matrices said:


> _All_ PS3 games have to support LPCM; it was part of the original specifications of the console.  2 channel LPCM is the minimum required, but up to 7.1 is supported.  It's up to the game designers as to how many sound output channels they want to support.
> 
> There are two possible implementation of DD/DTS in games on the PS3.  By default, a game designer programs their game to output just LPCM and then the PS3 system software takes that LPCM and encodes it into DD/DTS if that is the highest supported output (as chosen in the PS3 system software audio settings).  But in some higher end games, the game designer can license the DD or DTS encoder software directly, implement it into game code, and tune it specifically to their game so that the best audio quality is possible within the specification.  These are the games that prominently display the Dolby Digital or DTS logos in their games.  Games that fit into the second case still have to support LPCM though (only two channel is required, but if multi-channel audio is already programmed into the game, it's trivial to tell the software to bypass the encoder).
> 
> ...



I think GOW3 for the ps3 do...don't quote me though.


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## The Von Matrices (Oct 7, 2013)

springs113 said:


> Last I remember the first gen(40&60) ps3 do it was the slimline and the other subsequent models that don't.



The first generation "fat" PS3s removed a lot of features during their lifetime, but none of them supported bitstreaming DTS HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD; they can still decode it to LPCM though.  Only the "slim" and "superslim" PS3s can bitstream those two formats.  Maybe you're thinking of SACD support, which was present in the initial models but not the later ones?


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