# Cryptocurrency rant



## ArbitraryAffection (Jan 22, 2018)

Hi. Dunno if this is the place to put this thread but here goes. And this may or may not be a little bit of a rant...

Something has to be done about this Crypto currency mining craze. Graphics cards meant for gamers are simply being bought up in their hundreds and prices going through the roof as a result. This is not fair on the _intended audience _of these video cards. How long will this last? If it lasts for too long PC gaming will essentially die unless you wanna game on a 1050 Ti forever. (Well that isn't THAT bad, but still). I was an idiot and sold my GTX 1070 Ti on ebay hoping to get a massive profit to pay for 'real life' things. (Ugh). Will find out tomorrow what it makes, but even so, I'm now stuck on a GTX 1050 (non Ti) for the foreseeable future.

Will Next-gen video cards (thinking 20 series) be priced through the roof or will the stock simply vanish into thin air as more and more people want free money they haven't worked for?

Can NVIDIA or AMD implement bios/firmware locks in GeForce and Radeon RX gaming cards to prevent mining on them? And then allow bulk sales of the special purpose mining cards? Or can retailers implement a 1 or 2 per customer rule like NVIDIA does already? 

Because this is just not fair. I am beginning to really _hate_ mining and miners in general. 

/rant


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## natr0n (Jan 22, 2018)

Greed has existed since the beginning of time.

Try to overclock your 1050 till something we can get comes along.


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## qubit (Jan 22, 2018)

I agree, it's pretty frustrating, but there's no silver bullet, unfortunately.

At least you can be joyous that large, faceless, corporations AMD and NVIDIA are both making a killing on selling graphics cards...


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## BadFrog (Jan 22, 2018)

Won't last long for nvidia cards, they just released a statement trying to steer retailers to limiting it, but from what I read, they aren't limiting it to households, but individual people... small hurdle for miners to jump, might help a little, but not much...


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## Divide Overflow (Jan 22, 2018)

qubit said:


> At least you can be joyous that large, faceless, corporations AMD and NVIDIA are both making a killing on selling graphics cards...


Sure they are selling a lot of GPUs, but the ones making a killing are the retail shops who set prices so much higher than MSRP.


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## Papahyooie (Jan 22, 2018)

Be patient. GPU orders take a long time to fill, and the manufacturers and board partners, along with retailers, seriously underestimated demand around last september (most orders are made quarterly, from what I understand.) 

Regardless, don't be mad at the miners. Be mad at the retailers who are price gouging just because they can. I mine, and I can't buy new cards either at these prices, so we're in the same boat.


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## qubit (Jan 22, 2018)

Divide Overflow said:


> Sure they are selling a lot of GPUs, but the ones making a killing are the retail shops who set prices so much higher than MSRP.


It's true they do.  I wouldn't be surprised that the price the cards are sold to the retailers fluctuates too, though.


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## sneekypeet (Jan 22, 2018)

I find it funny....

You start with a mini rant about how the cost has gone so high due to mining, yet continue on with the fact that you are using it to your advantage selling the 1070 at way above average pricing. Seems to me you are confused as you are playing both sides of the issue.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 22, 2018)

Papahyooie said:


> Be patient. GPU orders take a long time to fill, and the manufacturers and board partners, along with retailers, seriously underestimated demand around last september (most orders are made quarterly, from what I understand.)
> 
> Regardless, don't be mad at the miners. Be mad at the retailers who are price gouging just because they can. I mine, and I can't buy new cards either at these prices, so we're in the same boat.


This is bang on right, no company just churns out chips without an expected customer , and mining picked up again it's that simple.
Just before Christmas cards were in stock for reasonable prices , but not now for sure.

I would recommend the hate going round be used to work hard ,earn more, buy a titan xp , mine with it , within a year your cards paid for it's self, though your soul may then be tainted to some.


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## Jetster (Jan 22, 2018)

Its frustrating but really its not hurting the gaming industry. If anything its making it stronger. What do you want to be done? Government intervention? Give me a break. Its the free market and it will work it out. Cryptocurrency will crash its just a mater of when


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## R-T-B (Jan 22, 2018)

sneekypeet said:


> I find it funny....
> 
> You start with a mini rant about how the cost has gone so high due to mining, yet continue on with the fact that you are using it to your advantage selling the 1070 at way above average pricing. Seems to me you are confused as you are playing both sides of the issue.



That is a little ironic.

Still, I feel his pain in principle.

That pain is part of the reason at the end of my miners run, I will likely sell the cards here for half of MSRP, like I always do, no matter what prices dictate.  It'll likely be a year from now, so hopefully shit has settled by then, but if not I'm not going to go and sell them for 2x MSRP or whatever.  I'm just going to do my usual.

I'll try and give you guys some notice so you all have a fair grab at it.


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## cdawall (Jan 22, 2018)

Why does it bother people? The heavy increases in prices and complete lack of video cards has only been the last month or so. I have still been picking up GPU's at acceptable prices for the same period of time. It requires more research and effort, but if I can do that as a miner looking for more cards why can you not do it as a gamer looking for a new GPU?

Mining has become a livelihood for a lot of people. This is not some overnight fad. When the market crashes there are people that will loose everything. I don't wish that on anyone and nor should you for your own childish gain.

Locking out GPU's isn't going to fix anything people will just figure out how to bypass it or all of the stock that would have gone to make a gaming GPU branch would just be used for mining editions that could be sold at a premium because the market is larger. Remember miners are not buying one or two gpu's they are buying one or two cases at a time.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 22, 2018)

cdawall said:


> Why does it bother people? The heavy increases in prices and complete lack of video cards has only been the last month or so. I have still been picking up GPU's at acceptable prices for the same period of time. It requires more research and effort, but if I can do that as a miner looking for more cards why can you not do it as a gamer looking for a new GPU?
> 
> Mining has become a livelihood for a lot of people. This is not some overnight fad. When the market crashes there are people that will loose everything. I don't wish that on anyone and nor should you for your own childish gain.
> 
> Locking out GPU's isn't going to fix anything people will just figure out how to bypass it or all of the stock that would have gone to make a gaming GPU branch would just be used for mining editions that could be sold at a premium because the market is larger. Remember miners are not buying one or two gpu's they are buying one or two cases at a time.


Too true ,plus with all the sales hopefully both companies can provide better Future GPUs due to good RnD capital.
But your winning point is that segregation would put gamer's even farther down the que behind millitary ,acedemia, corporate, servers ,developers ,miners, then gamers shit Nvidia already has 3 teirs just for gamers and where are they pricing their best tech.


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## Vya Domus (Jan 22, 2018)

ArbitraryAffection said:


> Can NVIDIA or AMD implement bios/firmware locks in GeForce and Radeon RX gaming cards to prevent mining on them?



Nope.



ArbitraryAffection said:


> Or can retailers implement a 1 or 2 per customer rule like NVIDIA does already?



Retailers don't give a shit , if anything they are the ones that profit the most out of this.



cdawall said:


> When the market crashes there are people that will loose everything. I don't wish that on anyone and nor should you for your own childish gain.



Oh , spare us the guilt card (Why even bring that up ?). There are a ton other things that people mindlessly do risking their livelihood and quite frankly mining should be the least concerning out of them all. Someone that dumps 20K on video cards wouldn't have a glimmer of sympathy form me if the market would crash. Not because I want cheap GPUs but simply because it would be stupid for me to care about such a thing. It's not like someone forced them to do that.


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## cdawall (Jan 22, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> Oh , spare us the guilt card (Why even bring that up ?). There are a ton other things that people mindlessly do risking their livelihood and quite frankly mining should be the least concerning out of them all. Someone that dumps 20K on video cards wouldn't have a glimmer of sympathy form me if the market would crash. Not because I want cheap GPUs but simply because it would be stupid for me to care about such a thing , it's like someone forced them to do that.



People take risks for everything and since you apparently know everyone's situation how do you know someones back up plan wasn't mining?

It is a quite viable market right now. $500 Billion USD, that is larger than the country of Polands GDP. The loss and damage of that market will have worldwide affects on everything and everyone. Remember some countries are accepting crypto as legal tender now. A market crash is bad for the world economy regardless of what market crashes.


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## ArbitraryAffection (Jan 22, 2018)

sneekypeet said:


> I find it funny....
> 
> You start with a mini rant about how the cost has gone so high due to mining, yet continue on with the fact that you are using it to your advantage selling the 1070 at way above average pricing. Seems to me you are confused as you are playing both sides of the issue.


I would have had to sell my 1070 Ti anyway as I needed the cash back from it for personal reasons and it was too late to return it. Just doing it now is a coincidence and maybe I can actually make a profit from this mess.

This whole thing just bugs me because I am, by nature, a depressing, negative person with catastrophic thinking styles. I like to buy GPUs quite often, in fact in some communities I'm known to change GPUs more often than underwear (Which isn't true, I change underwear once a day, GPUs more often every 2-3 months). This is because I'm a fickle, unstable sort-of-a-fangirl to whatever company produces the components in my PC at the time of writing.

I'm allowed to be annoyed. When GeForce 20 series comes out, they had better be in stock long enough for me to get 2070 or something. >:|


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## Vya Domus (Jan 22, 2018)

cdawall said:


> People take risks for everything and since you apparently know everyone's situation how do you know someones back up plan wasn't mining?



let's just say I will not shed a tear at someone's attempt of making money or just straight greed , whether they a backup plan or not. Be real , no one start's mining with their garage full of cards when they are strapped for cash and don't have a "back up plan" , they do it mostly out of the desire to get rich.

But don't get me wrong , I do not oppose any of this , everyone wants money after all. Anyone is free to do whatever they want I just don't feel like I should care about them if they fail. Small businesses fail around the world like mad , they affect the economy much more so than mining. But I don't see much concern about them  , and for good reason , it's not anyone's problem if someone invets in something and it fails.


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## R-T-B (Jan 22, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> Anyone is free to do whatever they want I just don't feel like I should care about them if they fail. Small businesses fail around the world like mad , they affect the economy much more so than mining. But I don't see much concern about them , and for good reason , it's not anyone's problem if someone invets in something and it fails.



I get that.  I mean I have empathy for people who would lose a lot in crypto but I see what they invested as high risk and it does what it says on the tin, more or less.  I can give them a sympathetic "oh, that sucks" but that's about all I can give.

The issue here is as @cdawall says, this will take more than itself down with it.


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## Space Lynx (Jan 22, 2018)

It would be interesting if Nvidia and AMD could install a special chip on their GPU's that if it detects mining software it shuts itself off automatically. and then making mining specific cards for that crowd. would be interesting if that is possible


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## cdawall (Jan 22, 2018)

ArbitraryAffection said:


> I would have had to sell my 1070 Ti anyway as I needed the cash back from it for personal reasons and it was too late to return it. Just doing it now is a coincidence and maybe I can actually make a profit from this mess.
> 
> This whole thing just bugs me because I am, by nature, a depressing, negative person with catastrophic thinking styles. I like to buy GPUs quite often, in fact in some communities I'm known to change GPUs more often than underwear (Which isn't true, I change underwear once a day, GPUs more often every 2-3 months). This is because I'm a fickle, unstable sort-of-a-fangirl to whatever company produces the components in my PC at the time of writing.
> 
> I'm allowed to be annoyed. When GeForce 20 series comes out, they had better be in stock long enough for me to get 2070 or something. >:|



I have done the same thing on these pages for over a decade now, except more often typically. Now I do it by the few dozen. What difference does it make? I will make sure to buy up as many next gen cards for you as humanly possible.



Vya Domus said:


> let's just say I will not shed a tear at someone's attempt of making money or just straight greed , whether they a backup plan or not. Be real , no one start's mining with their garage full of cards when they are strapped for cash and don't have a "back up plan" , they do it mostly out of the desire to get rich.
> 
> But don't get me wrong , I do not oppose any of this , everyone wants money after all. Anyone is free to do whatever they want I just don't feel like I should care about them if they fail. Small businesses fail around the world like mad , they affect the economy much more so than mining. But I don't see much concern about them  , and for good reason , it's not anyone's problem if someone invets in something and it fails.



Doesn't matter if someone goes all in or this is on the side. Mining is people's live's and at this point with a market in the hundreds of billions of dollars it would be more like the vehicle market failing. This isn't a small business.



lynx29 said:


> It would be interesting if Nvidia and AMD could install a special chip on their GPU's that if it detects mining software it shuts itself off automatically. and then making mining specific cards for that crowd. would be interesting if that is possible



So you want to remove abilities from GPU's? What's next you buy an EA pack to activate games for your specific GPU? Don't set a precedent of feature removal is ok.


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## R-T-B (Jan 22, 2018)

lynx29 said:


> It would be interesting if Nvidia and AMD could install a special chip on their GPU's that if it detects mining software it shuts itself off automatically. and then making mining specific cards for that crowd. would be interesting if that is possible



It's been discussed here extensively.  The real issue is I am not completely convinced there is any way to detect that kind of workload reliably vs gaming and gaming compute.


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## sneekypeet (Jan 22, 2018)

ArbitraryAffection said:


> I would have had to sell my 1070 Ti anyway as I needed the cash back from it for personal reasons and it was too late to return it. Just doing it now is a coincidence and maybe I can actually make a profit from this mess.
> 
> This whole thing just bugs me because I am, by nature, a depressing, negative person with catastrophic thinking styles. I like to buy GPUs quite often, in fact in some communities I'm known to change GPUs more often than underwear (Which isn't true, I change underwear once a day, GPUs more often every 2-3 months). This is because I'm a fickle, unstable sort-of-a-fangirl to whatever company produces the components in my PC at the time of writing.
> 
> I'm allowed to be annoyed. When GeForce 20 series comes out, they had better be in stock long enough for me to get 2070 or something. >:|



I never said you could not feel or say anything. I just picked up on the irony and commented on it.

Also, look harder for cards! I just picked up a pair of 1080ti cards for what single cards are selling for in the used market


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## Papahyooie (Jan 22, 2018)

sneekypeet said:


> I never said you could not feel or say anything. I just picked up on the irony and commented on it.
> 
> Also, look harder for cards! I just picked up a pair of 1080ti cards for what single cards are selling for in the used market



TEACH ME! I need 1070's lol.


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## Bones (Jan 22, 2018)

Me too..... I could use one or two for free since it's extremely unlikely I'll ever get another new one with the personal issues I have going on. 

@ the OP - I understand the frustration you have with all this going on and frankly I'm not into mining or even think it's a good thing because I don't - That's something I've never tried to hide on my part. 

As for the cost, well... It's gonna be what it's gonna be. 
The market doesn't care about what we may think about it or if we can even get one as long as what's in the market is selling in the first place. It's only when the sales slow down that these crazy prices and "Out of Stocks" will lessen or go away but also as pointed out about greed itself, it's just good old human nature at work in it all. As long as someone can make a profit from mining it's gonna continue with or without us.


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## Vya Domus (Jan 22, 2018)

cdawall said:


> Mining is people's live's and at this point with a market in the hundreds of billions of dollars it would be more like the vehicle market failing.



I think you are seriously overestimating it's worth in relationship with the rest of the world. Don't be so dramatic , it wouldn't be as apocalyptic as you describe it and it wouldn't ruin such an endless amount of lives. And even if it would, it would still not concern me , mining is something you do voluntary.

Whats next , feeling sad for those who are slinging dope ? You know , that "market" is worth billions too and I am sure that in the event of something , many lives would be ruined as well.


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## ppn (Jan 23, 2018)

Don't buy new video card now, Wait for Volta?ampere?10nm?7nm TSMC, and get 40-60% faster card at the same price. Let them have it.


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## cdawall (Jan 23, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> I think you are seriously overestimating it's worth in relationship with the rest of the world. Don't be so dramatic , it wouldn't be as apocalyptic as you describe it and it wouldn't ruin such an endless amount of lives. And even if it would, it would still not concern me , mining is something you do voluntary.
> 
> Whats next , feeling sad for those who are slinging dope ? You know , that "market" is worth billions too and I am sure that in the event of something , many lives would be ruined as well.



I think you are heavily underestimating what 500 billion dollars going poof from the economy just purely out of the coins themselves does. Not to mention the business aspect of this. That is rent that is gone, untold millions of KW/h of electricity, equipment purchasing etc.


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 23, 2018)

qubit said:


> I agree, it's pretty frustrating, but there's no silver bullet, unfortunately.
> 
> At least you can be joyous that large, faceless, corporations AMD and NVIDIA are both making a killing on selling graphics cards...



Users on R9 290/390 series even


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## kn00tcn (Jan 23, 2018)

ArbitraryAffection said:


> This whole thing just bugs me because I am, by nature, a depressing, negative person with catastrophic thinking styles. I like to buy GPUs quite often, in fact in some communities I'm known to change GPUs more often than underwear (Which isn't true, I change underwear once a day, GPUs more often every 2-3 months). This is because I'm a fickle, unstable sort-of-a-fangirl to whatever company produces the components in my PC at the time of writing.
> 
> I'm allowed to be annoyed. When GeForce 20 series comes out, they had better be in stock long enough for me to get 2070 or something. >:|


you're allowed to be anything, but what you just said means you dont deserve it (no literal offense, but it's alarming)

change gpus every few months, wtf? some people actually do not have a budget or time to enjoy what they want to or used to enjoy, some people have a sudden hw failure that forces them into buying a replacement at a high price... are we really talking about current gen cards/games that look & run VERY decently on medium & midrange? it's not like years ago when hardware was not enough

it's extremely important to catch destructive thoughts, to control emotions, & to be familiar with how your mind works, because it may be an optional luxury such as gaming now, but what happens when the same low stock high price situation happens to food or shelter? you cannot lose control when you need to be precise & methodical


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 23, 2018)

cdawall said:


> I think you are heavily underestimating what 500 billion dollars going poof from the economy just purely out of the coins themselves does. Not to mention the business aspect of this. That is rent that is gone, untold millions of KW/h of electricity, equipment purchasing etc.


It doesn't go "poof," it either gets transferred or lost.  Also, tell that to all the companies that folded during previous bubbles that burst.  Not exactly extraordinary.

I'm not convinced the market cap of crypto currencies is real.  The actual assets backing crypto is likely hugely less.  What could happen is someone (probably "Satoshi Nakamoto") withdraws all the real money backing BTC at exchanges and BTC becomes insolvent.  Without an infusion of cash to return solvency, BTC's dead.

If BTC collapses, altcoins likely will too.  The only ones that might survive are those like tcoin which are regulated and have physical assets backing it (assuming they can afford to actually enforce their own rules).


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## cdawall (Jan 23, 2018)

FordGT90Concept said:


> It doesn't go "poof," it either gets transferred or lost.  Also, tell that to all the companies that folded during previous bubbles that burst.  Not exactly extraordinary.
> 
> I'm not convinced the market cap of crypto currencies is real.  The actual assets backing crypto is likely hugely less.  What could happen is someone (probably "Satoshi Nakamoto") withdraws all the real money backing BTC at exchanges and BTC becomes insolvent.  Without an infusion of cash to return solvency, BTC's dead.
> 
> If BTC collapses, altcoins likely will too.  The only ones that might survive are those like tcoin which are regulated and have physical assets backing it (assuming they can afford to actually enforce their own rules).



Remember if you were to try and pull something like 500 billion us out of the economy from any market what it will do. AMD didn't do too hot after the last collapse either.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 23, 2018)

I'd be surprised if it was worth more than a couple billion.  If I'm right, the people dealing it would get a slap in the face but the economy at large would shrug it off.  Fundamentally, I'm talking about liquidity or rather, the lack thereof.

Just because a company's shares are trading for a lot of money doesn't mean the company is actually worth that.  To throw your example back at you: AMD devalued/wrote off billions on their ATI purchase because ATI was overvalued at the time of sale.  AMD had a market cap of about $40 billion and ATI was about $5 billion.  When the dust settled after the acquisition was complete, AMD had a combined value of $5 billion.  $40 billion vanished over the period of a year or two.


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## cdawall (Jan 23, 2018)

And it has taken AMD over 10 years to fix itself from that $40 billion going poof. How do you think the economy will feel with 500 billion gone overnight.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 23, 2018)

That's what I'm saying: where's the proof it's worth $500 billion?  All that is based on is the standard stock math of share price time number of shares.  With stocks though, you're talking corporations that have assets and liabilities.  With crypto, you're talking about something that has no assets and a lot of liabilities (the alleged $500 billion that is thought to be outstanding/owed).  Because the coins are owned by anyone and they have no tangible value, they're only worth more than nothing if there is a buyer willing to pay the asking price.  The market is completely dependent on the buyers and, because the market is still tiny ($500 billion in a bucket compared to most legal tender out there), whenever a buyer makes a big purchase, it echos throughout the market because the market is fundamentally illiquid.

Corporations have a lot of means to stay solvent.  In AMD's case, it was selling their fabs.  How does one even define solvency for crypto?  Activity on exchanges, probably, but those exchanges have limits on what they can handle because of it's illiquid nature (exhibit A: Mt. Gox).

TL;DR: the heart of cryptocurrency is a toxic financial instrument.


If I had to guess who "Satoshi Nakamoto" is, I'd guess it is a made up name for a group of Goldman Sachs employees.  Inventing financial instruments as new avenues of profit is what they do best.


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## R-T-B (Jan 23, 2018)

FordGT90Concept said:


> If I had to guess who "Satoshi Nakamoto" is, I'd guess it is a made up name for a group of Goldman Sachs employees.  Inventing financial instruments as new avenues of profit is what they do best.



I don't buy that at all.  Shortly before he left, he raged about the EFF accepting bitcoin donations, saying it would "raise exposure to dangerous levels" (or something similar, I am paraphrasing.  I'm sure you can find his old posts still).  Shortly after a few weird posts about the direction of bitcoin being not for large scale use, he vanished.

That doesn't sound like what you describe.

I'm not sure bitcoin is worth 500 billion, but one thing is for certain:  It's solvency alone is in the billions because there have been large, billion plus cashouts (see the Winklevoss twins).  It's worth a lot more than ford is arguing.



> Activity on exchanges, probably, but those exchanges have limits on what they can handle because of it's illiquid nature (exhibit A: Mt. Gox).



Sorry, but Mt. Gox?  No ford, bad argument, no cookie!

If you know what MtGox stands for, you know it was basically a bunch of kids in their basement and not an example by any means of a real, functionally planned business or exchange.

Try coinbase.  Here, let me help:  They occasionally have transaction delays when a lot of buyers cash out at once.


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## Space Lynx (Jan 23, 2018)

This is partially AMD's fault. They should have launched Vega at 2 grand per card for a solid year or two, used the profits (because it still would have sold out to miners on launch day, etc) and used the profits to make Vega 2, rinse and repeat, and eventually we gamers would be able to buy Vega 3 at $299 when cryptocurrency eventually dies. France and Germany and the IMF are already eyeing it, fees are high, its already taxed if you change it to fiat... its really only a matter of time now.


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## R-T-B (Jan 23, 2018)

lynx29 said:


> when cryptocurrency eventually dies



I'm not convinced we will ever see that day.  Certainly not soon.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 23, 2018)

R-T-B said:


> Try coinbase.  Here, let me help:  They occasionally have transaction delays when a lot of buyers cash out at once.


That's proof of illiquidity.  The same thing can happen to huge withdraws at small bank branches: they simply don't have enough cash on hand to withdraw the full amount.  The difference is that the branch can request a shipment of cash from their federal reserve and that cash will eventually be made available to you.

What you describe at coinbase, they have no higher power they can call to get more cash.  They have to either take out a loan from a real bank or make people wait until people buy the coins they're holding.  The former is how the exchange collapses; the latter is how the entire cryptocurrency collapses.


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## R-T-B (Jan 23, 2018)

FordGT90Concept said:


> That's proof of illiquidity.



I did say I was helping, didn't I?

However, it's not.  Another possibility (very likely IMO) is that the network infrastructure at coinbase , either btc side or webside, is under siege.

Happens on massive buys too, supporting that theory.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 23, 2018)

Well, BTC is slow to process transactions.

More importantly: what is the financial shape of exchanges like coinbase?  How vulnerable are they to big swings in the market?  Answer should be "none at all" because they don't actually hold any coin: just facilitate lining up a buyer and a seller and collect a fee on it.  If this is the case, then the only risk to those holding coins.


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## R-T-B (Jan 23, 2018)

Yep, in coinbase's case the answer is what you'd want to hear.  I feel they are the most legit op in crypto.


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## hat (Jan 23, 2018)

I got two gtx1070 last year for mining. If it weren't for mining I'd still be rocking my gtx660 ti. Since I started, mining has helped me out a lot with finances.

I'm all for mining cards, it might be a good way to use some less than perfect stock. They could also have some bios tweaks aimed at mining for higher performance. They would have to be cheap enough compared to regular graphics cards to make a difference though, otherwise miners would just buy regular graphics cards along with them indiscriminately. 

You've got to realize though that they can't "just make more". Crypto and therefore demand from miners could plummet at any time, and if they make all this stuff and nobody buys it they're out a bunch of money tied up in useless product that isn't moving. That, and they can't just increase production that much. It's not that easy to just build a new fab or just make more, especially when the main reason to do this would be to satisfy the demand of a bunch of people who may not be there in the near future.


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## Papahyooie (Jan 23, 2018)

Just consider it a good time to upgrade your whole PC! Prebuilt gaming PCs containing GTX 1070s are officially cheaper than buying a 1070!


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## NdMk2o1o (Jan 23, 2018)

In a retail/distribution channel model, the manufacturer will sell to distributors at a fixed price whilst giving them a certain discount based on their status/sales, typically anything from a couple of % upto 10-15%+ etc and that's where the distrubutor makes their margin, in turn this works when the distributors sell to resellers with the most active/high status resellers receiving the biggest discount and so on and so fourth, so the price increases have to be coming direct from the manufacturers due to the increased demands. The SKU's aren't anymore costly to produce but there isn't enough supply to go around so they can charge what they are selling for and right now thats around +50% of what should be msrp, and why not as far as NV and AMD are concerned as these are the only ones benefiting from the price increases, I can tell you now it wont be the resellers who sell direct to consumers because if they were trying to gain an extra 20-30% GP from their usual discounted rate then the distributors and vendors (manufacturers) would come down hard on them for such practices. Speaking from experience of working for a software vendor.


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## trickson (Jan 23, 2018)

All I can say is this, If the card companies wanted prices to come down they can could and have the ability to make that happen. "They know what is going on they want this to go on it makes them huge amounts of cash! This is there boondoggle BOYS SUCK IT UP Buy cheeper cards and live with it. Live with the fact that a mid range card is now the top of the line and buy older stuff too! That hits them where it counts do that for a few years and you would see video cards at 60 buck! LOL !


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## dorsetknob (Jan 23, 2018)

Between where cards are made and the end consumer  price exploitation is rampart


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