# AMD A10-5800K and A8-5600K APUs for Socket FM2



## cadaveca (Sep 15, 2012)

The results are in! Today we take a better look at AMD's FM2 APU performance results, including updated results from the last we posted, now using an AMD A85X-based motherboard instead of AMD's A75 FCH. Does the FCH used matter? Does the APU do its job well?

*Show full review*


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## Assimilator (Oct 2, 2012)

The most appropriate graphs:







A10-5800K @ 4.4GHz / 100+W can't touch i5 2500K @ 3.3GHz / 95W in multi-threaded scenarios.






A10-5800K @ 4.4GHz / 100+W can't even match Pentium G850 @ 2.9GHz / 65W in single-threaded scenarios. And G850 is half the price of AMD's chip.

That is just sad, no other way to put it.


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## Absolution (Oct 2, 2012)

Its a pity though that they decided not to ramp up the GPU in the FM2 just because they are comfortably ahead of Intels HD4000 series (even with their Llanos).

New processor, new motherboard, and not so great 3D performance improvement (when paired with the 6670) over the prev generation is a drag. C






ould be understandable if they were going for the tick-tock philosophy, but thats an Intel thing only right?

Tl;dr: Wanted to see these "new" 7000 series cores to be paired with 7000 series cards in dual graphics mode.


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## Absolution (Oct 2, 2012)

I also dont understand why there is an inconsistency in the comparison of benchmarks.

Why is an intel mobile chip included in the power test? 





Why is the A10-5800 (with DG) included with no comparison with a 3850 (with DG)?





 In some cases, the 3850 with DG is there but not the A10 with DGL...


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## Frick (Oct 2, 2012)

Assimilator said:


> I'll just leave this here:
> 
> http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6347/50408.png



And I'll counter with this:






And lets not forget this:






And the cheapest i3 at Newegg is $119.99, which is damnable close to the $122 for the top A10. The A10 is slower in some aspects, quicker in others, on par on most and devestating in GPU performance. In the end it depends on your needs of course, but for a general purpose (with some gaming going on) chip it's great.


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## xenocide (Oct 2, 2012)

Assimilator said:


> That is just sad, no other way to put it.



That's one benchmark.  The thing that confuses me is that Trinity seems to have faster IPC than Llano, but be worse in heavily threaded benchmarks even being clocked higher at stock speeds.  This means the Piledriver design still suffers from scheduler problems--just as Bulldozer did.  I'd love to see an A10-5800K vs. an FX-4150 comparison.

At $125, it is a great entry level CPU, but if Intel can step their iGPU Game up with Haswell (which they are trying very hard to do) even improvements like this wont be enough for AMD.  This does offer an excellent budget solution for light gamers though.



Frick said:


> http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6332/50112.png



I just want to point out though, as time goes on Intel seems to be making greater gains in GPU performance than AMD is.  From HD3000 to HD4000 we see a 52.5% gain in performance.  By contrast, from the 6550D to the 7560D you see a less than 5% gain, and even from the 6550D to the 7660D you only see a gain of about 17.5%.


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## Absolution (Oct 2, 2012)

Assimilator said:


> The most appropriate graphs:
> 
> http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6347/50409.png
> 
> ...



The i5 is for $219, the A10 is for $130. The A10 is priced against the Core i3 3220 (Dual core) - also for $130. 

Considering the performance is on par, has better graphics and more cores, AMD's offering is a better choice for a budget system. The question is how much of an improvement it is for existing FM1 users, not much.


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## symmetrical (Oct 2, 2012)

Assimilator said:


> The most appropriate graphs:
> 
> That is just sad, no other way to put it.



*sigh*

I don't even want to start with the amount of retardation going on here.


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## symmetrical (Oct 2, 2012)

Absolution said:


> The i5 is for $219, the A10 is for $130. The A10 is priced against the Core i3 3220 (Dual core) - also for $130.
> 
> Considering the performance is on par, has better graphics and more cores, AMD's offering is a better choice for a budget system. The question is how much of an improvement it is for existing FM1 users, not much.



It is an improvement when it comes to the GPU side, which IMO with these chips is one of the more important aspects of it. And at only $122, it's priced accordingly.


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## 50eurouser (Oct 2, 2012)

AMD can't challenge Intel in ipc/single threat performance now but they offer more cores. It's wrong to compare different priced cpu's. A10-5800K is a 2 module 4core apu which is in general comparable to i3's. Pentium/Celeron 1155 just suck, intel has removed every usefull extra i5/i7 have, named AXV/Turbocore/Oc etc. I aslo bet it's a bad invest a dual-core these days like a G8xx series as it will end up with pretty crappy performance in modern multitheat games like Max Payne 3 / Battlefield 3 MP etc. Hanswell will have to challenge AMD Kaveri GCN next year and not Liano/Trinity. Intel HD4000/2500 3rd Gen. iGpu can't even compare with Liano in Game Perf. or image quality, it will take some time for amd to match intel's ipc performance.


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## Frick (Oct 2, 2012)

xenocide said:


> I just want to point out though, as time goes on Intel seems to be making greater gains in GPU performance than AMD is.  From HD3000 to HD4000 we see a 52.5% gain in performance.  By contrast, from the 6550D to the 7560D you see a less than 5% gain, and even from the 6550D to the 7660D you only see a gain of about 17.5%.



On the other hand Intel's offerings were abysmal to begin with. I don't think they can keep up with that in the long run.


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## Atom_Anti (Oct 2, 2012)

Nice testing and good thoughts. Although I've expected more tests, after I was told you likes to include everything.




Assimilator said:


> The most appropriate graphs:



Chinbench are to most un-appropriate graphs, that program cannot use Piledrivers cores. And actually for what are you using this synthetic craap?


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## Dent1 (Oct 2, 2012)

xenocide said:


> I'd love to see an A10-5800K vs. an FX-4150 comparison.



Read The Guru of 3D. The A10-5800k beats it out the FX4100 in pretty much everything.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_a10_5800k_review_apu,1.html


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## Absolution (Oct 2, 2012)

Frick said:


> On the other hand Intel's offerings were abysmal to begin with. I don't think they can keep up with that in the long run.



My point exactly.

To sum it up (gaming).

1. Discrete graphics high end > i3 3220 is better if your okay with 2 cores

2. Discrete graphics mid (or paired for A10+6670) > Cant find a review, but I suppose A10 will be better ( i noticed that at toms hardware review, the test setup included the 6670, but only to pair up with the A10. Core i3 results were limited to its iGPU only... sad)

3. iGPU > A10 is better


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## AlienIsGOD (Oct 2, 2012)

Until I see regular Piledrivers in 6 and 8 core versions im not interested


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## Mussels (Oct 2, 2012)

reading the review and enjoying it, but the intro seems kinda long and rambling.


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## BigMack70 (Oct 2, 2012)

Nice review. Personally, I don't know that I see any market for this outside of maybe an HTPC in the desktop world. In my opinion, unless you're building an HTPC, the only reason to even have a desktop these days is for serious gaming or serious computing tasks that are far beyond the capabilities of something like an APU or an HD 6670. 

Laptops outfitted with an APU or similar can do pretty much all casual computing/gaming tasks at a decent price, so I find the laptop versions of these chips to be a bigger deal.


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## darkangel0504 (Oct 2, 2012)

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...-IGP-to-hit-10K-Vantage&p=5140875#post5140875




loooooool


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## Dent1 (Oct 2, 2012)

BigMack70 said:


> Laptops outfitted with an APU or similar can do pretty much all casual computing/gaming tasks at a decent price, so I find the laptop versions of these chips to be a bigger deal.



I agree. You can have the same casual performance on the laptop APU equivalent. I guess it's cheaper to buy/build a rig around an APU than it is to buy a laptop? Or maybe there are a few casual gamers whom like the security of upgrading it in the future? I guess from AMD's point of view they are trying to make money in the desktop arena rather than resolve our practicalities.

^ darkangel0504. Is that good or bad? What do those Vantage scores tell us?



darkangel0504 said:


> GPU score



NUHHHH. But is it good or bad. How does it compare to other products?


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## ensabrenoir (Oct 2, 2012)

*Where's that guy who said this would match Sandy bridge?*

:OH MY GOSH THIS IS INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!! AMD....*GRAPHICS*........RUle........  nothing new here folks keep it moving......keep it moving......

Seriously though.... a step in the right direction...just wished Amd took bigger steps and walked a whole lot faster.    The future is in laptops ultra books and tablets.  Keep running Amd  Keep running


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## darkangel0504 (Oct 2, 2012)

Dent1 said:


> I agree. You can have the same casual performance on the laptop APU equivalent. I guess it's cheaper to buy/build a rig around an APU than it is to buy a laptop? Or maybe there are a few casual gamers whom like the security of upgrading it in the future? I guess from AMD's point of view they are trying to make money in the desktop arena rather than resolve our practicalities.
> 
> ^ darkangel0504. Is that good or bad? What do those Vantage scores tell us?



GPU score


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## Fourstaff (Oct 2, 2012)

Very impressive for beating FX 4100, not so impressive but still good power consumption figures. Bring it down by 30% and I think we have a no brainer recommendation for budget systems.


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## Frick (Oct 2, 2012)

Fourstaff said:


> Very impressive for beating FX 4100, not so impressive but still good power consumption figures. Bring it down by 30% and I think we have a no brainer recommendation for budget systems.



IMO we still have. Throw some light gaming on it and it'll still deliver.


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## Mussels (Oct 2, 2012)

and now that i've read the whole thing:


yes, these arent a huge deal in the desktop market, for TPU users.

But just for a moment, imagine this: every cheap-ass desktop, laptop, netbook and nettop with enough performance to run 3D games on low to medium settings.


my laptop has an A6 APU, and i can play starcraft II on it. getting serious gaming done on integrated graphics is pretty mind blowing.


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## ensabrenoir (Oct 2, 2012)

Mussels said:


> and now that i've read the whole thing:
> 
> 
> yes, these arent a huge deal in the desktop market, for TPU users.
> ...



No doubt this should make AMD(and me ) a boat load of money.  If this don't lock down the entry level market translate into huge  profits Amd should give up tech and just make shoes or something.


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## brandonwh64 (Oct 2, 2012)

Once again, Great review dave! Keep up the good work!


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## Fourstaff (Oct 2, 2012)

Frick said:


> IMO we still have. Throw some light gaming on it and it'll still deliver.



Would recommend i3+discrete more often actually, you can get quite a lot more power for slightly more money (ok, $100+ more). 



Mussels said:


> my laptop has an A6 APU, and i can play starcraft II on it. getting serious gaming done on integrated graphics is pretty mind blowing.



My POS laptop can play ScII, your point is invalid lol


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## Nordic (Oct 2, 2012)

I can not find a good review with starcraft 2 as the benchmark. A person wants me to build a computer for them that can play starcraft 2 on high, 1080p for the cheapest possible option. I don't think this is enough, but maybe with a 6670.


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## Frick (Oct 2, 2012)

Fourstaff said:


> Would recommend i3+discrete more often actually, you can get quite a lot more power for slightly more money (ok, $100+ more).



Or even more power than that if you get an A10 + HD 6670 for the same money. 

That technology isn't perfect though but in some games it works quite well:


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## Crap Daddy (Oct 2, 2012)

Frick said:


> Or even more power than that if you get an A10 + HD 6670 for the same money.
> 
> That technology isn't perfect though but in some games it works quite well:
> 
> ...



Now come on, who would shell more money for a HD6670 when an i3 Ivy + a HD7770 for the same money would be better than the crossfired APU. I think here lies the major problem for this chip. While undoubtedly the graphics is great it just isn't enough for a desktop part used for gaming. On a desktop you don't do "light" or even "lighter" gaming. You don't use 720p resolution. That's for laptops. As for a HTPC, maybe I'm wrong, I don't see an advantage for this chip compared with an i3 apart from needing much more power to achieve the tasks.


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## Mussels (Oct 2, 2012)

having used APU crossfire i can say its not that great. thats not the real draw here - the real draw, is that the onboard video in entry level systems kicks the pants off intels.


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## 3870x2 (Oct 2, 2012)

One issue with the PC gaming market is you can't just go out and buy any computer and play a game on it.

Now you can.  If something like this had been available since early 2000s, I believe the PC gaming market would be much greater than the console market.

People get discouraged when they see a game on the PC they want to play, then buy it and find out they can't even play it on the lowest settings.

It is better late then never i guess, and this is a gigantic step forward.  Too bad this had to come out in the decline of the PC as of the last 5 years.  Laptops and tablets have taken over a large chunk of that market.


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## SIGSEGV (Oct 2, 2012)

thanks dave for this great review



Mussels said:


> having used APU crossfire i can say its not that great. thats not the real draw here - the real draw, is that the onboard video in entry level systems kicks the pants off intels.



yeah, you're right, i have a dell optiplex 990 with i5-2500 and HD2000 graphic, i can't even play my most favourite games like Dota 2 and Counter-Strike: Global Offensive , it drives me crazy..


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## CAT-THE-FIFTH (Oct 2, 2012)

There is also the 65W TDP A10-5700 which is only slightly lower clocked. In the UK it is around £90 which is around the same price as the 100W TDP A10-5800K.


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## cadaveca (Oct 2, 2012)

Absolution said:


> Tl;dr: Wanted to see these "new" 7000 series cores to be paired with 7000 series cards in dual graphics mode.



I did too, and almost bought a 7770 for this review, but alas, it's 6670 only. 6570 with A8 chips now.



Absolution said:


> I also dont understand why there is an inconsistency in the comparison of benchmarks.
> 
> Why is an intel mobile chip included in the power test?
> http://tpucdn.com/reviews/AMD/FM2_APU_Review/images/power_eps.gif
> ...



The Intel mobile chip has what some would consider twice the GPU power(7850m = 7770), plus four threads of IVB goodness. It's power consumption is quite similar to the APUs, for the full system too, but the desktop version of these same chips, i5 3220 and 7770, cost a fair bit more than the APU.

And in some workloads, the APUs beat it out. Just a reference number. It's truly just as out of place as the 3770K is, but I only have so many parts on hand to test with, so there it goes.

The desktop that uses those parts(yes, a desktop), will be reviewed in coming weeks as well!
If you'd liek other testing, I'm always open to taking donations for hardware purchases.




Mussels said:


> reading the review and enjoying it, but the intro seems kinda long and rambling.



I put the real conclusion first, hence the "Rambling".



CAT-THE-FIFTH said:


> There is also the 65W TDP A10-5700 which is only slightly lower clocked. In the UK it is around £90 which is around the same price as the 100W TDP A10-5800K.



I am quite interested in these chips myself, but am not sure how OC'ing with them will be. That 35 Watts less power would be perfect to me, if you can still clock the iGPU.


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## librin.so.1 (Oct 2, 2012)

In these:









i7 3770k & FX-4100; both paired with the same GPU. 'dozer is slightly ahead of ivy...
...But people said 'dozer is shi-i-i-i-it! WTH? This is outrageous!

(╯° · °）╯︵ ┻━━━━┻


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## Dent1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Vinska said:


> In these:
> 
> http://tpucdn.com/reviews/AMD/FM2_APU_Review/images/f1_2010.gifhttp://tpucdn.com/reviews/AMD/FM2_APU_Review/images/sniperv2.gif
> 
> ...



Next time don't listen to rumours 

There are plenty of gaming and non-gaming scenarios where Bulldozer easily beat out Sandy and Ivy. Then you'll look at the next set of charts and Bulldozer will be at the bottom of the pile. Bulldozer was inconsistant from one set of charts to the next.


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## librin.so.1 (Oct 2, 2012)

Dent1 said:


> Next time don't listen to rumours
> 
> There are plenty of gaming and non-gaming scenarios where Bulldozer easily beat out Sandy and Ivy. Then you'll look at the next set of charts and Bulldozer will be at the bottom of the pile. Bulldozer was inconsistant from one set of charts to the next.



If You rolled a one on Your "spot jokes" skill check, then:
That was mostly a joke


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## kukreknecmi (Oct 2, 2012)

What i dont understand is, how can theese power consumptions from wall can be true. I have never saw a FX or i7 which consumes less then 10W!!! Without a discrete card, shouldnt theese numbers be around 40-50W ?






The more weird thing  is, how can an FX 4100 with 6670 can consume 8W from wall??


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## Fourstaff (Oct 2, 2012)

kukreknecmi said:


> What i dont understand is, how can theese power consumptions from wall can be true. I have never saw a FX or i7 which consumes less then 10W!!! Without a discrete card, shouldnt theese numbers be around 40-50W ?
> 
> The more weird thing  is, how can an FX 4100 with 6670 can consume 8W from wall??



Not from the wall, from the 8pin CPU header


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## cadaveca (Oct 2, 2012)

kukreknecmi said:


> What i dont understand is, how can theese power consumptions from wall can be true. I have never saw a FX or i7 which consumes less then 10W!!! Without a discrete card, shouldnt theese numbers be around 40-50W ?
> 
> http://tpucdn.com/reviews/AMD/FM2_APU_Review/images/power_full.gif
> 
> The more weird thing  is, how can an FX 4100 with 6670 can consume 8W from wall??



The Intel i5 3210m and 7850m can drop to 1 W from the wall, idle, desktop still functional. It varies, with most boards, so I ahve a specific timed interval when that is measured. If board software keeps numbers higher, then I'll catch it, and investigate.


I know, it's crazy, I expected 75 W or so, but nope. I do take pictures of the meters too, just for posterity, so I do have photographic evidence! I am ysing jsuit a $20 wall-wart meter for that numbertoo, so it might not be 100% accurate, but it should be pretty close.

Bulldozer and Piledriver can disable un-used modules, what's really surprising is that those three board managed to drop so low on idle, while the APU boards did not. The FX-4100 was installed to an ASUS Crosshair V Formula, same ram as the APUs, same drives, etc...



Fourstaff said:


> Not from the wall, from the 8pin CPU header



Nope, that's from the wall. The other graph is from the 8-pin.


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## Fourstaff (Oct 2, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> Nope, that's from the wall.



My bad I thought you measured everything through the 8pin


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## cadaveca (Oct 2, 2012)

Fourstaff said:


> My bad I thought you measured everything through the 8pin



I used to, but now I include graphs for each, as I had requests to keep 8-pin, but add full system.


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## kukreknecmi (Oct 2, 2012)

Fourstaff said:


> Not from the wall, from the 8pin CPU header



This is from 8pin





This is full system





So isnt full system means from wall?


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## trickson (Oct 2, 2012)

Assimilator said:


> A10-5800K @ 4.4GHz / 100 W can't touch i5 2500K @ 3.3GHz / 95W in multi-threaded scenarios.



WOW just wow. 
So even @4.4GHz this CPU is struggling just to make it? WOW just WOW!


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## rangerone766 (Oct 2, 2012)

3870x2 said:


> One issue with the PC gaming market is you can't just go out and buy any computer and play a game on it.
> 
> Now you can.  If something like this had been available since early 2000s, I believe the PC gaming market would be much greater than the console market.
> 
> ...



i couldnt have said things better!


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## kukreknecmi (Oct 2, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> Bulldozer and Piledriver can disable un-used modules, what's really surprising is that those three board managed to drop so low on idle, while the APU boards did not. The FX-4100 was installed to an ASUS Crosshair V Formula, same ram as the APUs, same drives, etc...



Thx for info. Its a bit offtopic but yet its .. i dunno what to say, just crazy. fx4100 + 6670 and sub 10W lol. I wonder how much it goes up within very light to light  load. Like 720p movies, or some web browsering(it's a bit hard to measure web browsing tho, need average). I guess i should expect sub 30w then?


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## trickson (Oct 2, 2012)

At least AMD is doing some thing with there APU's Not like Intel has any thing to offer in that respect. I like what I see for sure.


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## cadaveca (Oct 2, 2012)

kukreknecmi said:


> Thx for info. Its a bit offtopic but yet its .. i dunno what to say, just crazy. fx4100 + 6670 and sub 10W lol. I wonder how much it goes up within very light to light  load. Like 720p movies, or some web browsering(it's a bit hard to measure web browsing tho, need average). I guess i should expect sub 30w then?



I am sure that part of the power savings there is how the VRM works on those boards, where it can disable phases when there is no need for them. It is possible that "out-of-the-box" the Intel BIOSes have these features enabled, but the AMD APUs do not. I measure at the 8-pin, and hte wall only, so where that actual power goes, I can only guess. Differences on installed parts, like LAN and such will ahve an effect as well. Both FM1 and FM2 APU boards are top-level Gigabyte products, A75-UD4H and the F2A85X-UP4, both have VRMs that should be capable ofthe same thing as the Intel boads.

The ASUS HD 6670 might have some fancy power-saving stuff too, I'm not sure. W1zz does GPUs, not me, so those sorts of things I gotta ask him about, even!


I didn't have a lot of time to do all those benchmarks...35 graphs, 6 systems with 8 configurations, is like over 200 tests. Plus overclocking, OS installs, blah, blah, blah...

It might be possible to get 0W, but i think that if you really want to go that low, there might be better options. Piledriver-based CPUs might make that even better...I haven't got any of those yet, so time will tell, either when AMD sends one, or I go buy one.  I do plan on having FX4100 and FX8150 in that review, so I can take a look at light desktop use power draw, for sure. I might even just add a graph with that, might be interesting info.


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## kukreknecmi (Oct 2, 2012)

With an A6 3500 undervolted, paired with matx board, ssd and pico-psu, idle consumptions can go as low as 12.5w idle and 28-38W at 1080p movies.

Trinity chips may be do similar, with custom p-states. A6 5400 and A4 5300 may be interesting to htpc builders, and will be interesting to compare 2-3Core Lianos.


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## cadaveca (Oct 2, 2012)

kukreknecmi said:


> With an A6 3500 undervolted, paired with matx board, ssd and pico-psu, idle consumptions can go as low as 12.5w idle and 28-38W at 1080p movies.
> 
> Trinity chips may be do similar, with custom p-states. A6 5400 and A4 5300 may be interesting to htpc builders, and will be interesting to compare 2-3Core Lianos.



Yeah, if you don't need a lot of 3D power, just 2d and VGA playback, and combine with Windows8 and AMD RamDrive, SSD or mehcanical storage, and there's value there that potentially cannot be beat.


I am not aware of actual retail APU pricing yet though, wasn't out when this was written, and I haven't looked this mornin, but I think AMD might be willing to stay below what Intel offers, price-wise.

Intel offers more CPU performance, since they castrate or bin from IVB all the way down to the low-end...it's all IVB. All with the smae basic GPU core, so you're left with most users with i5 and i7 chips having iGPUs sitting unused.

AMD offers a customized solution. It'd be interesting to see how APUs transition to 22nm or whatever AMD ends up using for the next-gen.


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## cdawall (Oct 2, 2012)

I am tempted to start looking into one of these for my HTPC...but I just purchased the intel bracketed swiftech


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## Frick (Oct 2, 2012)

Crap Daddy said:


> Now come on, who would shell more money for a HD6670 when an i3 Ivy + a HD7770 for the same money would be better than the crossfired APU. I think here lies the major problem for this chip. While undoubtedly the graphics is great it just isn't enough for a desktop part used for gaming. On a desktop you don't do "light" or even "lighter" gaming. You don't use 720p resolution. That's for laptops. As for a HTPC, maybe I'm wrong, I don't see an advantage for this chip compared with an i3 apart from needing much more power to achieve the tasks.



An i3 + 7770 is more than an A10 + 6670. And you can change resolutions on a desktop.

Are these for gamers? No, they are not. But for avarage joes with occasional gaming they are excellent.


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## cadaveca (Oct 2, 2012)

cdawall said:


> I am tempted to start looking into one of these for my HTPC...but I just purchased the intel bracketed swiftech



PSH!


Just get one to put under a pot. You know you wanna.


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## PopcornMachine (Oct 2, 2012)

So I guess it depends on what you want.

If a system without a discrete GPU is for you, then the APUs are good for your laptop in a desktop case.

If you want to additionally play games at decent resolutions and quality, then core I3s with a discrete GPU are most definaltely the way to go.


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## cdawall (Oct 2, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> PSH!
> 
> 
> Just get one to put under a pot. You know you wanna.



I have it sitting in the closet just begging to be used.


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## cadaveca (Oct 2, 2012)

PopcornMachine said:


> So I guess it depends on what you want.
> 
> If a system without a discrete GPU is for you, then the APUs are good for your laptop in a desktop case.
> 
> If you want to additionally play games at decent resolutions and quality, then core I3s with a discrete GPU are most definaltely the way to go.



I could defend AMD here, but that's not my job.






cdawall said:


> I have it sitting in the closet just begging to be used.



I know you do.  Heck, it's gonna be -30 outside soon, here, too. It's 42f here right now, and probably won't get warmer at all today.


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## cdawall (Oct 2, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> I know you do. Heck, it's gonna be -30 outside soon, here, too. It's 42f here right now, and probably won't get warmer at all today.



Thursday and Friday have a chance of snow I can't wait to at least get some cold water benching in.


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## Casecutter (Oct 2, 2012)

I agree that if mild/entry gaming is the goal you don't go APU! The FX-4100 with 7770 is an excellent start. I don't see i3 as a value proposition, as a good mobo (Z77 ATX PCI-E w/two slot) that OC's hurts the pricing in many case; enough that someone could almost justify moving to the 7850 1Gb and then AMD system pulls away. But that not about APU’s... as what we’re dealing with here.

I just wanted these APU vying against the i3-3220 with HD 2500, and then say both GT 520 and a 6450, while lastly the i3-3225 with HD4000… those would present unequivocal weight.  All this i7 3770K or a i5 3210 mobile and 7850m, aren't in the realm of what this competition is about.   This wasn't a educational review, and it's like TPU has to scrap together odds and ends for a dog and pony show… 

Honestly I expected more, and I’m not faulting *cadaveca* in any way! To me TPU should have stepped-up and purchase if need be the right stuff to provide pertinent results.


----------



## parkerm35 (Oct 2, 2012)

*mITX*

Am i the only one who can picture one of these in a tiny little ITX case running games and anything else you want to through at it. I'm talking about cases that are about as big as a Nettop, but with the ability to play games. I'm sure the A10-5700 will be perfect for something like that, or maybe desktop all in ones. The possibilities are endless. On a more serious note, these chips are more than powerful enough for the average joe, my wife who likes to surf the web, watch movies, do her spread sheets and play games (world of warcraft) :shadedshu, is there a CPU out there that is better suited to her? My son does his school work and plays flash games and a spot of mine craft, is there a better CPU out there, i don't think so, i really don't.

Just ordered two of these, and the more people who are anti AMD open their eyes and see what a great product it is (i'm talking about the people who will set out to spend more even know they don't need it, just so they don't have an AMD CPU) and buy it for what it was intended for, you never know, next time with all the extra $ for R+D, you might just get a pleasant surprise.


----------



## mtcn77 (Oct 2, 2012)

*Gpu*

I went ^^,
when - I presume - what I saw was "2x Gigabyte Radeon HD7950 OC" on the introduction page. Maybe it was a seraph, but it really had some oomph.
Thank you cadaveca (& Wizzard).


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 2, 2012)

mtcn77 said:


> I went ^^,
> when - I presume - what I saw was "2x Gigabyte Radeon HD7950 OC" on the introduction page. Maybe it was a seraph, but it really had some oomph.
> Thank you Wizzard.



Your welcome.


And yes, I did test with dual 7950's. And no, the A10-5800K is not a great match, but yes, it is MORE than capable of making things work..albeit suboptimally. However, you will find specific numbers with that particular combination  from me in the near future.

I left that in there on purpose.

You see, enabling of AMD Dual Graphics does affect CPU performance a little bit, as a bit more driver-level stuff must happen. With high-power VGAs, this becomes exacerbated by the alrge volume of inter-GPU communication, and extra PCIe-Memory traffic.

For a single 7950, an APU can lead to quite decent performance, for sure. I have to complete more testing too explore that exact configuration a bit more, but ultimately, an FX chip is always going ot be the better option, due to the inclusion of L3 cache.


----------



## mtcn77 (Oct 2, 2012)

*Against FX4100*

The performance seems ubiquitously close. I was hoping to find out if there have indeed been IPC & memory controller improvements compared to Bulldozer. This cpu definitely undercuts FX4100's discrete gpu gaming front.


----------



## PopcornMachine (Oct 2, 2012)

Frick said:


> And lets not forget this:
> 
> http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6332/50112.png
> 
> And the cheapest i3 at Newegg is $119.99, which is damnable close to the $122 for the top A10. The A10 is slower in some aspects, quicker in others, on par on most and devestating in GPU performance. In the end it depends on your needs of course, but for a general purpose (with some gaming going on) chip it's great.



48 FPS at 1366x768, mainstream quality is important how on a desktop?

Not saying I'll forget it, just saying it isn't all that impressive.


----------



## Rei86 (Oct 2, 2012)

Just purchased a Prodigy off of newegg and a OCZ SSD for the living room.  Was waiting forever for the new trinity and since its finally here I'm just waiting on a ITX mobo to go with it


----------



## seronx (Oct 2, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> It'd be interesting to see how APUs transition to 22nm or whatever AMD ends up using for the next-gen.


28-nm LPH from Samsung and GlobalFoundries.

http://www.globalfoundries.com/technology/28nm.aspx
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/foundry/process-technology/32-28nm


----------



## Casecutter (Oct 2, 2012)

Here’s the thing so many of the reviews are using the Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) with Intel HD 4000 because of harmonious clock speeds, then again that’s a $329 part, and yes a A10-5800K can't match in CPU throughput that’s understandable. 

However, HD 4000 can’t do anything close to what a $125 A10-5800K can provide in graphics. It’s all what you think your needing more, and how much that costs you. The problem is the real match is with the i3-3225 Ivy Bridge 3.3GHz with HD 4000 as $145 part. 

That the straight-up challenge, and not any reviews I reading are doing that match-up here it is at Hexus.
http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/46005-amd-a10-5800k-trinity-apu/


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 2, 2012)

Casecutter said:


> Here’s the thing so many of the reviews are using the Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) with Intel HD 4000 because of harmonious clock speeds, then again that’s a $329 part, and yes a A10-5800K can't match in CPU throughput that’s understandable.
> 
> However, HD 4000 can’t do anything close to what a $125 A10-5800K can provide in graphics. It’s all what you think your needing more, and how much that costs you. The problem is the real match is with the i3-3225 Ivy Bridge 3.3GHz with HD 4000 as $145 part.
> 
> ...



Actually, a fair compare would be the 2120 or 3220. I got as close as I could with the 3210m. but then, I could not enable the iGPU, so i had to use the built-in 7850m.


Unfortunately, since this is really just a hobby for me, I don't have a big budget or the contacts to be able to get what I need, when I need it. Most reviewers are stuck in the same boat, so we do what we can.


And...AMD says the same thing too, that that was their target, the 2120 and 3220. Dollar for dollar, if you want 3D perforamcne in that price range, than AMD has the better solution. Not everyone needs the 3D, but not everyone needs Intel's CPU grunt, either. At least now you have a choice.


----------



## TRWOV (Oct 3, 2012)

Rei86 said:


> Just purchased a Prodigy off of newegg and a OCZ SSD for the living room.  Was waiting forever for the new trinity and since its finally here I'm just waiting on a ITX mobo to go with it



I think these desktop APUs would make more sense on slim ITX cases, like the CM Elite 100 or the Antec ISK. On a case that would take a full height graphics card I'd go Intel/discrete GPU.

Heck, I don't understand why are we getting full ATX FM2 boards.  mATX, maybe, mini ITX, sure, but full ATX???


----------



## Rei86 (Oct 3, 2012)

Because I love how the Prodigy looks.  

Replacing a very nice looking Silverstone GD05 which looks like a entertainment media piece with a Prodigy just because I think it looks good.  Also getting a Prodigy just in case if I wanna do something wild in the future.


----------



## jihadjoe (Oct 3, 2012)

I was looking at getting one of these to put in a slim itx type enclosure, but the TDP and more importantly measured power draw is too high. Its nuts that the 5600 draws more power under load than an i5 with a discrete card..

(I'm working with a 60W power budget).


----------



## camoxiong (Oct 3, 2012)

which GPU with Hybrid Crossfire with this APU


----------



## TRWOV (Oct 3, 2012)

6450, 6570 and 6670


----------



## DannibusX (Oct 3, 2012)

Excellent review, Dave.  These chips perform right where I suspected they would.

It's been a while since I bought an AMD chip, but I'm itching for an HTPC build with some gaming possibilities.  Now all I do is await some MiniITX boards to compare.

Also, the price point makes this a no brainer for me.


----------



## TheGuruStud (Oct 3, 2012)

We don't call it Cinebent for nothing, folks!

Where's some x264 encoding? Handbrake and the like is a joke.

Since we know what we're doing, undervolt it and the power sucking under load goes away (I said it before and I'll say it again, AMD can't/won't bin).
That would be nice to have in the review for people doing HTPC builds.

Also, intel pulls power from more than 12V. We still can't measure those damn things accurately for the cpu only (another 5-15 under load I'm guessing, but I don't know how the igpu affects this).


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 3, 2012)

TheGuruStud said:


> Also, intel pulls power from more than 12V.



So does AMD. But the main VRM, which is touted in so many board marketing lists, is what IS powered via the 12V-EPS, so that's what I test.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 3, 2012)

dave thanks for the impartial and honest review. Most around here blow things out of proportion.


----------



## Casecutter (Oct 3, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> I don't have a big budget or the contacts to be able to get what I need, when I need it. Most reviewers are stuck in the same boat, so we do what we can.


It's all good... I totally understand, I thought overall your test approach, and read was all very good keep it up!  Always a fan!



cadaveca said:


> And...AMD says the same thing too, that that was their target, the 2120 and 3220. Dollar for dollar, if you want 3D perforamcne in that price range, than AMD has the better solution. Not everyone needs the 3D, but not everyone needs Intel's CPU grunt, either. At least now you have a choice.


That’s really the take away we all need to hold such chips to.  
Trinity provides ample, while balanced performance for mainstream general computing/graphic tasks in a small efficient package.  There are plenty of folks for home/office machines that APU’s are the cost effective solution.  Verse the i3’s and entry Z77 mobo's aren’t so cost effective... then if you want two monitors it’s a discrete card minimum $20-30.  While you want something more in the realm of this A10-5800K (still efficient and half-height) you’re at least $40-60.


----------



## mediasorcerer (Oct 4, 2012)

I believe amd have done quite well here mostly, thanx for the review, good read!

At least we have more choice now, that's always a plus.

Ps@cadaveca=thay are exciting , i agree big time, i have a good feeling this series will end up being excellent all rounders one day if not right now, bet most folks wouldnt feel the difference on the cpu side of things very much, but will notice it on the gpu side regarding intel v amd etc..

Dollar for dollar~exactly!!!


----------



## kukreknecmi (Oct 4, 2012)

Which board have u used for fx-4100?


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 4, 2012)

kukreknecmi said:


> Which board have u used for fx-4100?



ASUS Crosshair V Formula.


----------



## Nordic (Oct 4, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> ASUS Crosshair V Formula.
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48603&stc=1&d=1349360490



Wish I had a bookshelf that looked like that...


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 4, 2012)

james888 said:


> Wish I had a bookshelf that looked like that...



With it, comes this(right now):


----------



## Nordic (Oct 4, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> With it, comes this(right now):
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48604&stc=1&d=1349364859



I am not far from the canadian border. It may not be as cold here yet but we are getting there fast. We got a big northern front tuesday that droped us into the 40s. Currently 39F with 69% humidity.

I personally don't mind the snow much. Cold weather just gives me excuses to overclock and bench too.


----------



## vagxtr (Oct 15, 2012)

Assimilator said:


> http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6347/50408.png
> A10-5800K @ 4.4GHz / 100+W can't even match Pentium G850 @ 2.9GHz / 65W in single-threaded scenarios. And G850 is half the price of AMD's chip.
> 
> That is just sad, no other way to put it.



You right there that CPU performance is underwhelming to say at least. But this is not *"professionalist oriented CPU"* i might say as it's like always AMD oriented towards budget gaming and this really hit it's sweet spot if you could buy unlocekd model for 120USD and mobo +8GB ddr3 came up only around 220USD

A10-5800K certainly isnt something ment to be core of your rendering farm


----------



## vagxtr (Oct 15, 2012)

xenocide said:


> That's one benchmark.  The thing that confuses me is that Trinity seems to have faster IPC than Llano, but be worse in heavily threaded benchmarks even being clocked higher at stock speeds.



In fact Piledriver doesnt have better IPC over Llano as you misstated. They have somewhat improved IPC, which now seems only ~2%, over their older bro Bulldozer

Piledriver == BD architecture
Llano == K10 (aka Stars) architecture

And K10 had higher IPC than Bulldozer. Only thing improved in Piledriver is cache latency and improved pipeline. Beside memory controller that evolves with every new generation ... now it's capable of ddr3-2100 instead ddr3-1866 in first Bulldozers


----------



## vagxtr (Oct 15, 2012)

Crap Daddy said:


> Now come on, who would shell more money for a HD6670 when an i3 Ivy + a HD7770 for the same money would be better than the crossfired APU.



It's never been a real crossfire ... neither in IGP+GPU days with HybridCF nor now because nowadays you cannot crossfire HD7660D featured in A10 series with newer GCN (aka SIMD) just with old VLIW5 and HD6670 is 480 shaders VLIW5 engine and already highly clocked with its own 128bit GDDR5 memory so it would outperform or be slightly better than HD7660D even if this was a standalone product on same frequency.

This so called crossfires are nothing more than *"GraphicsOnDemand"* feature and marketing to sold out old GPUs that become unpopular since they're almost 2yrs old and HD7700 is vastly superior product. Ofc is better to buy i7-37700K and HD7770 along with it but only HD7770 costs almost as A10-5800K and i7-37700K costs three times more. So A10 is great budget solution for occasional gamer, which could have decent performance budget PC for half price or even less than it would pay for latest i7+HD7770.

Foolish CFX in this rig is just vasting money on already well performing computer. And if someone have a higher budget he can buy itself HD7770 and still outperform CFX w/ HD6670 which is nothing more than deception to clean out stocks of old GPUs.


----------



## vagxtr (Oct 15, 2012)

Absolution said:


> New processor, new motherboard, and not so great 3D performance improvement (when paired with the 6670) over the prev generation is a drag. C
> http://tpucdn.com/reviews/AMD/FM2_APU_Review/images/3dm11.gif
> ould be understandable if they were going for the tick-tock philosophy, but thats an Intel thing only right?
> Tl;dr: Wanted to see these "new" 7000 series cores to be paired with 7000 series cards in dual graphics mode.



It's something called compromise.

Piledriver is already huge chip and if it has selling price of 120USD top then they wish to cutdown expences just like intel with Ivy Bridge wich isnt so better CPU over old Sandy Bridge, but carries as always with intel some new instructions and huge leap forward with GT2 (HD4000) graphics.

Piledriver is 10% bigger than Llano that also comes with cost, probably not much as 32nm is now perfected from days of early Llanos.

And did you nag Intel when they obsoleted their s1156 platform after only 10 month on market? Only bad thing is that customers "get used to it" as FM1/s1156 were never highly adopted. For me more crazy thing is existence of AMDs s754 for a long time while had no real CPU upgrade at all. It was fair cheaper to abandon it and skip to s939 than to have costly upgrades with poorer performance. ofc s754 was still great budget solution for office use and AMD was milking their Athlon64 branding in those days.

Well you could wait and see HD7000 integration in 9-12 month time in Steamroller. And maybe DAMN really went smart as they said in _AssetSmart campaign_ and will sell out us new chips every year with 20-30% improvement.

After all people use to buy crippled down Intel CPUs which are 80-100% expensive and not even have HD4000 w/ 16EUs but cut down HD2500 (6EU) versions not to mention how HD4000 is far inferior than even HD6410D used in A4 Llano series (160 VLIW5) and this 6xVLIW4 blocks are 30% better than best 5xVLIW5 blocks we had in A8 Llano series branded as HD6550D with 400 unified shaders. After all it's fair price and hopefully it make intel to lower their extreme prices on i5-3470 and similar and i7-3770K ofc


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 16, 2012)

Knowing the lead intel has, they wont lower prices at all



vagxtr said:


> It's something called compromise.
> 
> Piledriver is already huge chip and if it has selling price of 120USD top then they wish to cutdown expences just like intel with Ivy Bridge wich isnt so better CPU over old Sandy Bridge, but carries as always with intel some new instructions and huge leap forward with GT2 (HD4000) graphics.
> 
> ...



btw combine your last 3 posts


----------



## Rei86 (Oct 17, 2012)

whelp its not a A10 but just purchased the A8-5600K from newegg for 10bucks off for the HTPC.

Just waiting for the MSI or ASRock FM2 ITX Mobo


----------



## bim27142 (Oct 18, 2012)

All stock and with no discrete GPU, how much power draw from the wall outlet you think will this have given the following specs:

*A10-5800K
ASRock FM2 mini-ITX mobo
G-Skill Ares 4x2 1600
Samsung Spinpoint F3 HDD (500GB)
Silverstone ST50F-ES PSU
LiteOn ODD (DRD-RW)*

The reason I'm asking is that I am thinking of building an HTPC with the above specs (some old parts recycled, e.g. HDD, PSU, RAM, ODD).

Also heat and noise of the stock HSF... Any ideas?

By the way, I'm also thinking of putting all these in a CM Elite 120 case.


----------



## Nordic (Oct 18, 2012)

bim27142 said:


> All stock and with no discrete GPU, how much power draw from the wall outlet you think will this have given the following specs:
> 
> *A10-5800K
> ASRock FM2 mini-ITX mobo
> ...



Check for yourself. This handly little app has been pretty accurate for me.
https://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp


----------



## Mussels (Oct 18, 2012)

those software PSU calculators always calculate high, so keep that in mind.


----------



## Nordic (Oct 18, 2012)

Mussels said:


> those software PSU calculators always calculate high, so keep that in mind.



They probably do but in my case it predicted what I would use within 50 watts. I have tested. I have a killawat


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 18, 2012)

james888 said:


> They probably do but in my case it predicted what I would use within 50 watts. I have tested. I have a killawat



Or, you could simply look at the numbers I posted in the review for full system power consumption, and go with that + 25%.


----------



## ThaSpacePope (Oct 19, 2012)

vagxtr said:


> It's never been a real crossfire ... neither in IGP+GPU days with HybridCF nor now because nowadays you cannot crossfire HD7660D featured in A10 series with newer GCN (aka SIMD) just with old VLIW5 and HD6670 is 480 shaders VLIW5 engine and already highly clocked with its own 128bit GDDR5 memory so it would outperform or be slightly better than HD7660D even if this was a standalone product on same frequency.
> 
> This so called crossfires are nothing more than *"GraphicsOnDemand"* feature and marketing to sold out old GPUs that become unpopular since they're almost 2yrs old and HD7700 is vastly superior product. Ofc is better to buy i7-37700K and HD7770 along with it but only HD7770 costs almost as A10-5800K and i7-37700K costs three times more. So A10 is great budget solution for occasional gamer, which could have decent performance budget PC for half price or even less than it would pay for latest i7+HD7770.
> 
> Foolish CFX in this rig is just vasting money on already well performing computer. And if someone have a higher budget he can buy itself HD7770 and still outperform CFX w/ HD6670 which is nothing more than deception to clean out stocks of old GPUs.



I just purchased a 5800k & an asrock uATX board and found this thread by googling overclocking results of the igpu. If 1600 3dmarks can be achieved with it at stock i'm hoping to get 2000 hitting 1000mhz core or 1050, etc. I don't have the board but we shall see.

The big advantage here though and the reason I'm quoting you is because throwing a $30 6570 DDR3 in there would in theory almost double the 3dmarks for one damn cheap gaming system all around. For $225 for mobo, cpu & 6570 and say 3000 3dmarks and a quadcore thats incredible. It might run bf3 at 1080p on medium. I eagerly anticipate seeing what it can do. I think you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater by saying the scalability just isn't there with a low end crossfire. It might be with the overclock.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 19, 2012)

Mussels said:


> those software PSU calculators always calculate high, so keep that in mind.



they provide a minimum spec and a recommended spec


----------



## ThaSpacePope (Oct 19, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> [page=Introduction]
> Introduction​http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/FM2_APU_Review/images/ASeries_Logo.jpg
> 
> A few days ago, AMD allowed us to show some early numbers and some of the new features of their FM APU series, but there were some complaints about all of the sites that posted previews because the picture they presented with such articles skewed people's impression of AMD's new APUs. There is, of course, some truth to that; however, those judgments were, perhaps, made a bit too quickly. Today is the day that the APUs actually launch, and today is also the day I have the full testing suite to show.<br />
> ...



Dave,

I have a question about this article now. On page 2 you suggest that only the A85X can utilize crossfire. However it seems that the A75 can also crossfire at least in the FM1 chipsets. Can you clarify this in the article? Did amd disable crossfire on D3 hudson and only allow it on the a85x?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 19, 2012)

ThaSpacePope said:


> Dave,
> 
> I have a question about this article now. On page 2 you suggest that only the A85X can utilize crossfire. However it seems that the A75 can also crossfire at least in the FM1 chipsets. Can you clarify this in the article? Did amd disable crossfire on D3 hudson and only allow it on the a85x?



is it crossfire or dual graphics. Because Ya FM1 you had 2 8x slots because 2 out of 3 would become 8x8 with a 4x or 16, 0, 4


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 19, 2012)

ThaSpacePope said:


> Dave,
> 
> I have a question about this article now. On page 2 you suggest that only the A85X can utilize crossfire. However it seems that the A75 can also crossfire at least in the FM1 chipsets. Can you clarify this in the article? Did amd disable crossfire on D3 hudson and only allow it on the a85x?



A75 only actually supports AMD Dual Graphics. My test A75 board is a Gigabyte A75-UD4H, and it does NOT support Crossfire.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 19, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> A75 only actually supports AMD Dual Graphics. My test A75 board is a Gigabyte A75-UD4H, and it does NOT support Crossfire.



hey man if you scroll down on this page http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3927#ov 

you see this


Multi-display support with AMD CrossFireX
Flexible graphics capabilities - Up to 2 VGA cards are supported for 2 way AMD CrossFireX™ (running at x8, x8 bandwidth), delivering the ultimate in graphics performance for gaming enthusiasts who demand the highest frame rates without compromising on resolution.

but ya Crossfire only works with 2 cards, Dual Graphics You might Consider what they used to call Hybrid Crossfire.

http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4343#ov

that board supports even balanced crossfire in FM2 package


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 19, 2012)

NO mention of Crossfire on the box, no Crossfire logo.


I'll have to check that out then.

As to Crossfire on FM2, I have tested, and it works OK, but there is a definite performance loss with the APU's lack of L3.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 19, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> NO mention of Crossfire on the box, no Crossfire logo.
> 
> 
> I'll have to check that out then.
> ...



is it specified in the manual?


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 19, 2012)

Nope. There is teh setup for dual graphics, with pics, etc, but no Crossfire info.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 19, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> Nope. There is teh setup for dual graphics, with pics, etc, but no Crossfire info.



i just read the manual on Crossfire setup for the one board out of the FM2 lineup for Gigabyte that supports 8x8 crossfire

its on page 20 of the english manual for this board

 GA-F2A85X-UP4

most of the other boards support only 16x4. there is 1 that only supports dual graphics


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 19, 2012)

Yeah, I'll have a review of that one next week. I used one for this review too.


----------



## ThaSpacePope (Oct 19, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> hey man if you scroll down on this page http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3927#ov
> 
> you see this
> 
> ...




Okay, so just to be clear - when you said CrossfireX you meant crossfiring 2 discrete video cards?

And by dual graphics - "crossfire" with apu & one discrete card = old hybrid graphics?

I just purchased an a75 board from newegg yesterday, item already shipped but I read your article after purchase. I am hoping to get crossfire with the 7660d apu and a single 6670 ddr3. Is that possible (seems it is?) on an a75 board? What about an a75 board?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 19, 2012)

ThaSpacePope said:


> Okay, so just to be clear - when you said CrossfireX you meant crossfiring 2 discrete video cards?
> 
> And by dual graphics - "crossfire" with apu & one discrete card = old hybrid graphics?
> 
> I just purchased an a75 board from newegg yesterday, item already shipped but I read your article after purchase. I am hoping to get crossfire with the 7660d apu and a single 6670 ddr3. Is that possible (seems it is?) on an a75 board? What about an a75 board?



Yes Crossfire X is with 2 discrete GPUs

Dual graphics is like Hybrid Crossfire (IGP/APU and a discrete GPU)


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 19, 2012)

ThaSpacePope said:


> Okay, so just to be clear - when you said CrossfireX you meant crossfiring 2 discrete video cards?
> 
> And by dual graphics - "crossfire" with apu & one discrete card = old hybrid graphics?
> 
> I just purchased an a75 board from newegg yesterday, item already shipped but I read your article after purchase. I am hoping to get crossfire with the 7660d apu and a single 6670 ddr3. Is that possible (seems it is?) on an a75 board? What about an a75 board?



Dual Graphics on A75, using 6670 and A10 chips, works just fine.



eidairaman1 said:


> i did find something interesting for graphics configuration in UEFI in the manual found on page 52.
> 
> just trying to help out dude.




Honestly, I don't really care too much. If I get sent an A75 board for review, I'll take a closer look, and I know Crossfire works with FM2, since I've done it myself. I don't care too much about FM1 right now(which is what I was tlaking about in my other posts, just so we are clear).


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 19, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> Dual Graphics on A75, using 6670 and A10 chips, works just fine.





cadaveca said:


> Yeah, I'll have a review of that one next week. I used one for this review too.



i did find something interesting for graphics configuration in UEFI in the manual found on page 52, even when it pertains to setting aside system memory for the APU graphics.

just trying to help out dude.


----------



## ThaSpacePope (Oct 19, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> Yes Crossfire X is with 2 discrete GPUs
> 
> Dual graphics is like Hybrid Crossfire (IGP/APU and a discrete GPU)





cadaveca said:


> Dual Graphics on A75, using 6670 and A10 chips, works just fine.



Thanks fellas! the uATX board I purchased only has one pcie slot anyway so no hope for crossfire with discrete cards.

All told cost was $180ish for 5800k, a75 chipset asrock mobo and 8gb 1600mhz ram after cashback. Not too shabby!


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## Tatty_One (Oct 19, 2012)

I have been looking at getting an A10-5800K and coupling it with Sapphire's Pure Platinum Socket FM2, from the various reviews I have read, it seems currently to be pretty much the best overclocker...............

http://www.sapphiretech.com/present...gid=1181&sgid=1182&pid=1477&psn=&lid=1&leg=0#

On checking out the manual in the download section it clearly states it support Crossfire AND dual graphics (at a guess what we know as Hybrid using the APU and a further card), surely that would be a chipset capability and therefore at least apply to all A85XT boards?

What I don't know is what cards you could use in dual graphics mode with the onboard.... was kind of hoping I could double the APU up with a 7870!


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## cadaveca (Oct 19, 2012)

Tatty_One said:


> I have been looking at getting an A10-5800K and coupling it with Sapphire's Pure Platinum Socket FM2, from the various reviews I have read, it seems currently to be pretty much the best overclocker...............
> 
> http://www.sapphiretech.com/present...gid=1181&sgid=1182&pid=1477&psn=&lid=1&leg=0#
> 
> ...



All of this is covered in the review.  Well, except what the boards form differnt OEMs offer...that's incoming!


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 19, 2012)

Tatty_One said:


> What I don't know is what cards you could use in dual graphics mode with the onboard.... was kind of hoping I could double the APU up with a 7870!



same as lano afaik ie 6670/ 7670,, a 7870 would prob be held back by the apu's gfx's but i dont think they are xfire able anyway, i think the mobo means you can run two descretes in crossfire or one discrete plus apu in hybrid crossfire, i built a top end lano 3870k + 6670 combo for a cousin not long ago , id quite happily have kept it too as it was good for gameing(light-med some high settings) and quite frankly performed well all round ,day to day use.

skim reading again ,sos dave


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 22, 2012)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> same as lano afaik ie 6670/ 7670,, a 7870 would prob be held back by the apu's gfx's but i dont think they are xfire able anyway, i think the mobo means you can run two descretes in crossfire or one discrete plus apu in hybrid crossfire, i built a top end lano 3870k + 6670 combo for a cousin not long ago , id quite happily have kept it too as it was good for gameing(light-med some high settings) and quite frankly performed well all round ,day to day use.
> 
> skim reading again ,sos dave



not knocking you but i provided from the board makers mouths pretty much what supported crossfire or dual graphics or both or none


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## vagxtr (Oct 27, 2012)

ThaSpacePope said:


> The big advantage here though and the reason I'm quoting you is because throwing a $30 6570 DDR3 in there would in theory almost double the 3dmarks for one damn cheap gaming system all around. For $225 for mobo, cpu & 6570 and say 3000 3dmarks and a quadcore thats incredible.



I'm glad about your new rig but you totaly misunderstood *Hybrid CFX* and performance gains youd get with *H-CFX=="Graphics On Demand"*. When you OC your APU youd probably get almost same results as with H-CFX APU(HD7660D) + discrete (HD6670). And i'm poiting that it's cheaper performance wise to buy a new HD7770 that to invest ins some obsolete product and pairing them to get HybridCFX . But you can try and prove me wrong.

I dont know where you can buy HD6570 for 30USSD but where i live HD6570 is 60€ and HD6770 is 80€ and thats way pricier than you mention. I dont know where you're buying your HW but 225$ here isnt good enough for A10-5800K and 8GB of dirty cheap DDR3-1600 and MOBO+ discrete GPU doubles that cost you mentionedˇ~450USD but if i go to HD7770 over HD6670 (renamed to HD7670) i'll add only 30USD to overall price.


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## vagxtr (Oct 27, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> NO mention of Crossfire on the box, no Crossfire logo.
> 
> I'll have to check that out then.
> 
> As to Crossfire on FM2, I have tested, and it works OK, but there is a definite performance loss with the APU's lack of L3.



I highly appreciate your article and work you done. But your words "NO mention of Crossfire on the box, no Crossfire logo." makes me wondering about myself and what kind of people wrote those articles these days 

But hey I'm not bossy know it all person (BKIAP) and i undestand that _humanum est errare_ and that we all lack of time. And its great to admit that ... just dude don't do that in such fashion 

Yep this board itself supports Crossfire _because every MR.APU from AMD (Llano, Trinity ...) allows that their PCIE x16 2.0 links could be split into two PCIE x8 2.0 links_. It's inside APU chip guys not inside chipset. Thou chipset must be compatible to know to use that feature.

And i personally dislike this "Performance Loss because lacking of L3 cache" conclusions. If you know BD architecture you know that its cache is already a weak spot so aKsk to additionally burden this small chip with under performing L3 cache in conclusion it would benefit GPUs performance is just silly. Only thing GPU could benefit is some "SidePort link" incarnation as 64b GDDR5 IMC along with 1GB GDDR5 on APU SoC design. But we cant expect that for measly 120USD. Yet (maybe in 2014)


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