# NVIDIA tells us the truth about CrossFire



## W1zzard (Sep 17, 2005)

ATI's competitor NVIDIA has sat down and put together a presentation dealing with the shortcomings of CrossFire. Problems like limited resolution and game issues are listed. Not only do they cover the CrossFire video cards, but also problems with ATI's dual VGA motherboard chipsets.

*Show full review*


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## kRaZeD (Sep 17, 2005)

Looks like a lot of propaganda to me. nVidia have had alot of time to get things right on their mother board chipsets, but as i havent heard much about ATi boards (hell, nothing about them except for the xpress 200) i think ATi are doing pretty well for themselves!

And the second last slide: nTune, nvidia has it, and ATi doesnt... Guess why? cos its nVidia Tune...

Propaganda!

Anyone else like to comment?


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## wazzledoozle (Sep 17, 2005)

Propaganda. It is funny that they put "Ntune" as a feature to be supported or not supported by each lol.

Everyone says HDR wont work on 98xx/X8xx cards, yet in that preview of the Source lost coast posted here-
http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/lostcoast.ars/1

The guy runs HDR on a 9600. So whats the real deal with SM 3.0?



> On NVIDIA cards, it stores these values as 16-bit floating point data (what is known as a "linear color space," as opposed to separate RGB values), and on ATI cards stores it as a 4.12 integer value (again a linear space). The advantages of this technique are many. All DirectX9 hardware is supported, and because it does not require that much extra texture memory *the performance hit is small even on an ATI 9600*. Fog effects work, and so does FSAA. The only real downside is that HDR effects are not supported with refraction, so while light will still stream in nicely through stained-glass windows, you won't see the HDR effects when looking directly through the window at the sun. It is a small price to pay, however.



And if there was a problem with the USB controller a year ago, why the hell should they think it would be now? Nvidia is slinging mud.


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## Mussels (Sep 17, 2005)

the USB problem was easily solved, they used an  external USB 2.0 chip.


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## Mad-Matt (Sep 17, 2005)

Im waiting for the good part where ati sues nvidia for damages due to the lies spread in this public presentation .

Wouldnt be hard to hit back at nvidia though. Total lack of software support from nvidia to take advantage of their hardware and breaking support for their previous generation in doing so :|  There the Creative (soundblaster) of the gpu industry.


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## djbbenn (Sep 17, 2005)

Thing that gets me is that they are compairing a 7800GTX to a X850XTPE...then they say the X850 is out of date. Well yes it is, but the 7800GTX is a brand new card. Just wait till the X1800 comes out and see what Nvidia has to say about ATI then.

-Dan


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## ShinyG (Sep 17, 2005)

My first post on this forum:

That article right there is a lot of doo-doo. Even my 9550GU-Extreme supports HDR, so  a X800 "probably" suppots it too...

I don't know about "paperlaunch-ing", but GeCube just released their first X800GTO with Crossfire.

How dare they acuse ATi of lack of flexibility when their technology is the one that requiers both cards to have SLI enabled for that same SLI to work. How dare they say they have "two, full band 16x PCI-Xpress slots" when everybody knows that if you have 2 cards in SLI, each will only use it's PCI-Xpress at 8X!!! If they acuse ATi of "paperlaunch-ing" how the heck do they know that ATi's USB and PCI-Xpress are not running at full capacity!?! I've seen a test in the romanian edition of Chip magazine with an ATi Xpress 200 which trashed an Abit NF4 at default settings even though it was a preview version with very little BIOS settings... 

What is tha "Nvidia nTune not present on ATi cards" poo: it's like saying that GeForce cards don't support ATi Hydravision or something....

And last, but not least: What the heck is "Mainstream Price Points"!?!


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## Polaris573 (Sep 17, 2005)

You would have to be pretty foolish to accept information, at face value, from a corporation demeaning a competitor’s product.  Show me third party research showing SLI is better than Crossfire, than I may believe it.  However, nothing is certain until the product is even released.  Shame on you Nvidia, you just made yourselves look bad.


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## djbbenn (Sep 17, 2005)

In the 9th piture, it saying how if you have a master card but if your running a 12p card, it will make the master use only 12p. In SLI you must have the identical card, so whats the difference? Plus its almost better because you will be able to buy the master card, and run it with say your X800pro, and then if you want to upgrade you can buy a faster card without needing to get a a new master card. With Nvidia you would have to buy two new cards. Not to put Nvidia down or anything, but they are just pulling everything they can think of to deter people from crossfire. As Polaris573 just said "Shame on you Nvidia, you just made yourselves look bad."

-Dan


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## Deathspawner (Sep 17, 2005)

Wow, NVIDIA is whack. I love their cards, but to spread lies and false rumors about ATI is rediculous.

Page 4.. You mean I can *only* have 14x Anti-Aliasing with my ATI's?? There is no way I could settle with less than 16x   

"Enthusiasts don't buy old technology." Of course not, but they may just upgrade their 7800GTX to an X1800XT when it's released. We'll see.

Page 9.. They accuse Crossfire of *not* being more flexible. At least people DO have a choice to mix models/brands, and not be forced to use the exact precise SKU.

The only pages I found to have any warrant are maybe 11 and 12. If people have different display resolutions, then they may run into problems. But that's only if that's actually true. 

Page 16.. They devote an entire page to a rant about PCI-E 1x lanes? Because we all have so many 1x cards lying around???

Page 18 was quite hilarious as well. nTune and Price Points. It's hard to compete prices to nF4 when CF is not even out yet   

Cool slide though. Opened my eyes more about how foolish NVIDIA can be.


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## Unregistered (Sep 17, 2005)

*well cant say theyre lying 100%*

Very biased, quite unprofessional, but then again i already knew how nvidia could be upset, personally im unhappy cuz r520 tunred out to be 16 pipes and i still cant find a crossfire board....

you have to admit though i read the review for some ati express chipsets and i have to admit only the turion chipsets are impressive to me.....crossfire seemed fairly rigid...but yeah its unfair cuz theyre still working on crossfire and im sure theyre gonna fix the problems as well if not faster than nvidia....personally? i think both companies are acting like pms'in schoolgirls...


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## Dark Ride (Sep 18, 2005)

Having 2 video cards is simply dump.


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## Unregistered (Sep 18, 2005)

I think that you have to understand that both ATI and NVIDIA have people sitting around just thinking up things about the competition. I would bet that both companies do it.
Any way that being said I am here for some Nvidia support… objectively

Go ahead and get a cup of coffee and something to eat this is long.

Slide 2 - Seems here that this could be the case however not knowing when the ATi cards will be released it is hard to judge.   To the person that believes that they can buy a card that is crossfire capable… yes you can however you still need a master card. The ATI version will work with all previous x8XX cards just with a master card.

Slide 3 -  This is a hard case to make for either company, True the 7800gxt in sli will undoubtedly beat the current generation of ATI cards in Crossfire ( based on current single card benchmarks where the 7800gtx beats all). However ati could have simple ment that if you own an ati card you will have the best performance with crossfire and an ATI chipset Mobo.

Slide 4 -  On reason I know many people do not buy ATI cards is that they SUCK in OGL applications, this doesn’t mater much if you like windows however if you use Linux you don’t want to be using ATI. Technically 16x is better than 14x. It is also unclear weather or not ATI will have a competing solution to transparent AA

Slide 5 – HDR lighting does only work on Shader model 3 cards 
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/winhec/partners/shadermodel30_NVIDIA.mspx

Slide 6 – Nvidia Has changed this recently with a driver update. I don’t know when that page was written on ATI’s site but it is still there. Im sure they wanted people to know that. What you don’t see is the rest of the bulleted points, •  CrossFire is an open platform that supports multiple components and graphics cards that can be mixed and matched in a single system. Competitive multi-GPU solutions are constrained to supporting identical graphics cards.
This is true however if you have a better card it gets dumbed down to the lover version of card you have. Also you can mix and match brands of NVIDIA cards as long as they are the same card.

Slide 7 – ahh who cares, Nvidia is running out of things to argue about, its all done automatically I don’t see why anyone should care.

Slide 8 – seems to me Nvidia is just pointing out the obvious. One thing how ever is that Nvidia can do all 4 modes in OGL and on all cards that support SLI, Looks like ATI will not beat Nvidia at doom3 at least lol

Slide 9 – yeah the dongle is more flexible. This one is most definitely FUD by Nvidia, put out there to get people away from the fact that Nvidia can’t dumb down a card. (Well I know you can with certain programs but that’s not the point)

Slide 10 – Well I believe that this slide is spot on.

Slide 11 and 12 – I don’t know if this is confirmed or not, but if it is true that is a very very big limitation. People with large lcd’s and high end CRT’s should probably shy away from Crossfire if they like playing at 1600x1200 or higher.

Slide 13 and on – I don’t care practically much about a mobos features as long as it is stable, offers good performance in its class and can OC like no other. I am very sorry that there Gigabit nic only allows them to dl pr0n at the same speed as me because your not on a gigabit network and your cable modem only works at 5Mbits.


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## Unregistered (Sep 18, 2005)

This presentation was made to the press to look at when reviewing Crossfire parts as things to look for.  It was never made to be presented to readers like this.  I was in on one of these presentations and that is what they stated this part of the briefing was for.


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## Unregistered (Sep 18, 2005)

I agree, readers need to remember this isn't targeted towards the customers. Ofcourse it's biased, it's from nVidia. Would you expect an unbiased response from Ati? It's the marketing people that are creating these slides afterall.
As for the mud-slinging, it's no different than the mud-slinging by fanboys, of which there are plenty here. Recalling old problems either company had when talking about new hardware (driver cheats, poor performance, etc.) is nothing new.


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## djbbenn (Sep 18, 2005)

Dark Ride said:
			
		

> Having 2 video cards is simply dump.



I agree with you in some ways, Like if you have a 7800GTX, geting another one is not worth the money you pay for such a little performnace increase. But say to cheaper cards, like a 6600Gt for say, you can get close to the same performance a one single highend card, that cost more than the two cheaper ones. Its great if you want a performance increase without buying a newer more expensive card later on. You can just get the same card again, and it will be quite cheaper. But in most cases its just not worth it...

-Dan


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## Drenmi (Sep 18, 2005)

ShinyG said:
			
		

> How dare they say they have "two, full band 16x PCI-Xpress slots" when everybody knows that if you have 2 cards in SLI, each will only use it's PCI-Xpress at 8X!!!




Actually, there are motherboards using 2 chipsets, thus achieving 2 PCIe 16x slots.


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## ShinyG (Sep 18, 2005)

Drenmi said:
			
		

> Actually, there are motherboards using 2 chipsets, thus achieving 2 PCIe 16x slots.



I knew that, but if I'm not mistaken there are no graphics cards to work in dual 16x (maybe Quadro's). And using two chipsets on one mobo just to overcome that is not exactly a thing to brag about...


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## Unregistered (Sep 18, 2005)

One area 2 cards may be good for is 3D Rendering. I'm really curious to see what kind of an impact 2 cards will have on rendering times compared to 1 card. For people who use 3D Max or something similar 2 cards may be well worth the money if it really cuts down on render times.


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## unregistered (Sep 18, 2005)

ATI ==> The best
NVidia ==> Wrong propagande


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## IsaacS (Sep 18, 2005)

Yes it may be Nvidia propaganda, but Nvidia is right. Crossfire is going to sink without trace and so it seems is the x520 or x1800xt as it is now known.  Ati is in serious trouble.  

Cossfire was originally launched in June or July this year - and now ATI have had to do a relaunch and there is still no availability.  There are many issues with crossfire such as using mastercards, which dumb down the perfomance of your cards and incredibly crossifre doesn't support 1920x1200 at 60hz or greater which is just absurd.  

Secondly, the X1800XT is beaten by Nvidia's 7800gtx in nearly all high resolution benchmarks and yet the x1800xt is going to cost $150 more at launch.  Who, apart from ATI fan boys, is going to buy it?

Thirdly, to the idiot who said that they though ATi is doing well - maybe he should go back to school.  Ati's share price has slumped by almost 50% this year in comparison to Nvida's which has more than doubled.  Ati is also being sued in multiple class action suits - by its OWN shareholder - for misleading statements by its directors.

Conclusion - ATi has serious problems.


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## nutop (Sep 19, 2005)

IsaacS said:
			
		

> Secondly, the X1800XT is beaten by Nvidia's 7800gtx in nearly all high resolution benchmarks and yet the x1800xt is going to cost $150 more at launch.  Who, apart from ATI fan boys, is going to buy it?



OH wow, because you know... x1800 benches are everywhere now that the nda has lifted and the card is out in stores.


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## Tera (Sep 19, 2005)

It’s nice to see that nothing ever changes… ATI fan boys VS. nVidia fanatics, Intel VS. AMD and so on, it never ends. 

And you wonder what camp I’m in, I’m in the “best performance for decent money” camp. And witch brand is the better right now? I don’t care! I can’t afford premium ones anyway   

What makes you angry is that a document meant for journalists, made by nvidias sales- department to discredit ATI leaked out. We all know that sales departments are fishy. The reason ATI isn’t suing them is because they of course do the very same thing. Every body know that, so way are you upset?

As a comparison I’ve had to do with the sales department at the company I work for, regarding rolling out some advertising now and then. Being a technician I know how hard it is to teach a sales person what is good/bad about a product, especially compeered to the competitors. It really doesn’t mater how well you say it, they won’t understand and doesn’t care. Some of the info folders turned out okey, but some….. Man I feel ashamed knowing that I’ve been involved in the process of making them  

My guess is that both nVidia and ATIs tech-teams regularly wonder when their sales departments sold their souls to the devil


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## Unregistered (Sep 19, 2005)

*I agree,meant for the press*

Beating a dead horse is what came to mind when I first read this,but without question this was meant for another audience.I am currentley a nvidia owner,actually 3dfx prior(many moons ago),because I had several bad expieriences with early ati cards,xpert99,and such with horrible driver support and performance."HOWEVER" I have a few friends with 9800 pros that made me drool back in the day,and wiped nvidia all over the place-ala 5900 series.Really,I find it refreshing that both of these companies can catch up to one another year after year,forcing each one to top the other,only benefiting the customer in the end.Now if amd and intel were on equal marketing grounds,I bet you would find that 4 ghz might already be here.Marketing and competition has it's obvious ugly side,but causes roadblocks to open unexpectedly.


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## Unregistered (Sep 19, 2005)

unregistered said:
			
		

> ATI ==> The best
> NVidia ==> Wrong propagande




ATI ==> Top Dog sometimes

Nvidia ==>Top Dog sometimes

I could give a rat's hairy ballbag about branding. And I'm sure as hell not going to take the manufacturer's word for who has the best product.


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## Unregistered (Sep 19, 2005)

My first post but I think with ATI's supply problem in the past with the x800 series, I am going to stick with Nvidia. At least they deliver what they say they are going to. ATI hasn't been reliable since the 9800 series video cards. IMHO....


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## Unregistered (Sep 19, 2005)

*nVidia best for Linux*

ATI still basically sucks for the most part, which is too bad, because they certainly have potential to knock nVidia out of the smaller Linux market.  

Maybe in 2006...?


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## Unregistered (Sep 19, 2005)

Unregistered said:
			
		

> My first post but I think with ATI's supply problem in the past with the x800 series, I am going to stick with Nvidia. At least they deliver what they say they are going to. ATI hasn't been reliable since the 9800 series video cards. IMHO....



Uh.... so what good cards Nvidia made during the 9800 era?

The Dustbuster Geforce series?


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## RedR (Sep 19, 2005)

*nVidia's Turn*

Heya,

     Seems to me nVidia is on top, and with the head start they've got perhaps it'll stay with em for awhile. I for one recall not so long ago the driver problems outta ATI and how long it took em to get it right. nVidia has had their share of problems in the past as well, that’s no doubt. The thing that gets me is ATI has given good focus on the home theater side of things for awhile, but it seems lacking in their current chipset as well the new set coming. All the while the 7800 has stepped up to the plate and is doing quite well with home theater and HD support. In the end I do enjoy the rivalry between the two; it helps keep the shiny new cards coming. Frankly I am not gonna hold my breath for what ATI releases, nor nVidia. I'll wait and see what they actually release and sum up that nVidia rules yet again ;P

Enjoy,
RedR


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## Unregistered (Sep 19, 2005)

you all sound like a bunch of ATi fanboys


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## AMDCam (Sep 19, 2005)

Well there's definitely some bias things in there (Ntune compared between SLI and crossfire?), but ATI really does need to get their act together. Nvidia has had the 7800GTX out for months, SLI out for almost a year, and ATI is still working on both to compare against them. Both don't dissappoint either, that 7800GTX is a beast, just like it was supposed to be. I used to prefer ATI over Nvidia because they didn't take shortcuts to make things cheap, but now they're turning into what I hated about Nvidia. I'm buying a 6800 Ultra for my system, screw ATI's X800 series. No one ever heard of that, it just came out of the blue (X800GT, GTO, GTO2), but their new cards we've waited for for months. Plus, those new X800's are STILL too expensive, and out-of-date. I love Nvidia now, sorry ATI. Their glory days are gone for at least a small amount of time (until they release their stuff), and hopefully they won't permanently be but it doesn't look too good. They beat Nvidia with the last generation stuff, but now Nvidia has ATI beat when it counts (a few points higher with an X850 XT PE to the 6800 ultra, a few thousand points higher with the 7800GTX to the X850 XT PE), so figure something out now.


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## IsaacS (Sep 19, 2005)

nutop said:
			
		

> OH wow, because you know... x1800 benches are everywhere now that the nda has lifted and the card is out in stores.
> 
> thanks for pointing this out, retard



Nutop - I think you'll find out that you are the moron here.  Of course you didn't know that even ATI's own CEO said roughly the same thing in a recent conferencee call to investors.


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## kRaZeD (Sep 19, 2005)

Unregistered said:
			
		

> you all sound like a bunch of ATi fanboys


Pretty sure you will find that most of the replys have substance, and also that I own an nVidia video card.

So, stfu


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## Unregistered (Sep 19, 2005)

*Slide 11*

If half the load at maximum is 1600x1200@60Hz - what is the total load maximum?

So the Sil 1161 recievers limited to 'single link TMDS @ 165 Mhz'. 
So the master card will only recieve data from the slave at this limit - doesnt mean the total output is limited to this. 
Isnt it the goal, that the 2 cards should share the load?

Or perhaps it isnt as simple as that


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## NightOps (Sep 19, 2005)

*I was going to get a 7800GTX*

Well, I was going to get a 7800GTX, but NVidia just lost all of my support.  I'll wait for the x1800 now.  This is amazingly stupid.  I'm ripping my 6800GT OC out of my comp and selling it right away, even if I have to step down to a 9600XT and wait for a new mobo/x1800.  Wow.


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## Unregistered (Sep 19, 2005)

NightOps said:
			
		

> Well, I was going to get a 7800GTX, but NVidia just lost all of my support.  I'll wait for the x1800 now.  This is amazingly stupid.  I'm ripping my 6800GT OC out of my comp and selling it right away, even if I have to step down to a 9600XT and wait for a new mobo/x1800.  Wow.




This is insane.  Haha, ur going to choose your brand preference over a press release that is technically completly accurate? Every word on those slides is true (im positive nVidia would make damn sure of that), even if it is spun.  Everything in the world is about spin, just like who ATI as telling the whole world that crossfire would be better than SLI, even when u looked at it and noticed that your crossfired board would not be compatable with even future ATI cards.  Your master card would still be good if you wanted to upgrade from one x800 to another x800 (not really an upgrade), if you wanted to go to their x1800 or whatever ud need at least a new Crossfire Card, possibly a new motherboard (they havent talked about being forward-compatible).  Nvidia is fixing all the quirkiness with SLI (which was a technology developed for the PCI bus you might remember) and its actually pretty good now.  Crossfire still doesnt exist.  So if you can tell me that YOUR Crossfire setup is better than MY SLI setup (which isnt very good, athlon64 3000, asus a8n sli deluxe, 2 6600gts) then ill buy you a cookie, but since you obviously cant, i think the cookie is safe.


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## Unregistered (Sep 19, 2005)

ShinyG said:
			
		

> I knew that, but if I'm not mistaken there are no graphics cards to work in dual 16x (maybe Quadro's). And using two chipsets on one mobo just to overcome that is not exactly a thing to brag about...




The boards with 2 chipsets are dual opteron systems. At least, I've yet to see a uniprocessor setup with a 2nd chipset. 

That 2nd chipset (the 2050 slave) offers an additional 32 PCIe (that or 24...whatever the 2200 offers, the 2050 has it as well), GigE, etc. The only board available that has these 2 chipsets (that I can find) is the Tyan K8WE. Supermicro supposively will release one, but I couldn't find any info on their site about it.

Technically, the Tyan K8WE (of which I use) has 3 chipsets, but the AMD 8131 can be ignored, as it just acts as a PCI-X tunnel. It's certainly a better solution that excluding the 2050 and limiting the PCI-E x16 slots to x8 capabilities like the IWILL DK8EW does (or the Tyan's 2892 board)



Personally, I much prefer nVidia's SLI setup, simply because an internal SLI bridge seems a much better method than an external dongle. Then again, I hate dongles. 

As far as propaganda...are we surprised? I've heard just as much from the ATI side as the nVidia side. At least nVidia has a product to prove themselves...still no Crossfire. 


(and to dispell any comments about bias...My desktop/server is an nvidia based K8WE w/ dual Opteron 246 & a 7800GTX. My laptop is an ATI Ferrari 4005WLMI, which sports a Turion on an Xpress 200 mobo & x700 video)


-NecessaryEvil


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## Tera (Sep 19, 2005)

NightOps said:
			
		

> Well, I was going to get a 7800GTX, but NVidia just lost all of my support.  I'll wait for the x1800 now.  This is amazingly stupid.  I'm ripping my 6800GT OC out of my comp and selling it right away, even if I have to step down to a 9600XT and wait for a new mobo/x1800.  Wow.



Yooo NightOps I’ll buy it from ya real cheap, so you can prove your point, lets say 50$??!!! Then I’ll tell everyone on this forum that you actually had a 6800 GT, witch I think there is a lot of people that don’t believe. And for lets say 40$ I’ll even support you to change your alias to “ATI Playboy”… Opss Fanboy  

When it comes to what professionals use, they don’t use Nvidia or ATI, yes I know they both have a Pro series like ATI FireGL and nVidia Quadro4 but “Real Professionals” doesn’t use them. There is a number of brands that we normal mortals almost never see or hear about. I don’t say that I know all about them because I don’t. Mainly they aren’t very good for games and the prices are outrageous compared to even the most expensive nVidia or ATI, but then again its only companies that buy them.
Opposite of ATI, nVidia once belonged to this ultra pro 3D hardware manufacturers.

You may argue for what reason they changed focus to consumer hardware, but my personal belief is that either it cost to match for a to small audience, or they had a hard time staying on the cutting edge of pro technology. This is a number of years ago witch explains way most ATI fanboys don’t know it, they were still using diapers. 

When it comes to dual GPUs nVidia at least has some experienced developers that they to all our grief and sorrow acquired from 3dfx. Once again most ATI fanboys are clueless of what I’m talking about. 

I still can’t see way so many are angry for this, don’t you know that all businesses does the same thing?


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## 4g0ny (Sep 19, 2005)

Nvidia vs ATI fans.. ofcourse.. 
although this is propaganda, and Nvidia is close to / crossing the line here, theres no doubt that its all true.. its all bs too cause for example.. even though x800 doesnt fully support hdr lighting, which means they didnt put it specifically on the gpu to support it with the least performance loss, they still can handle it.. and not with too much trouble either.. as for the pcie 16x hmm i wonder why they dont have that if they support pcie 32x lol .. this is sad of Nvidia.. but also a good marketing step, cause people who arent fanatics and still want good stuff, will check this out and believe it..
my only question is: what will ATI do to strike back.. this could come out too easy for them if they handle it well


me waits for ATI's response


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## ShinyG (Sep 19, 2005)

Everybody is screwing ATi, it seems like. I hope you are all right and ATi goes bankrupt, so that Nvidia will buy them as they did with 3dfx, and then they will have a thing called "monopoly". All the Nvidia wackos will be so happy that they will pay a bucket of money for entry level cards, because, you see..., when you have control of the market, you dictate the price... Look at the graphic tablet market, where Wacom "rules" everything. A decent tablet costs more than a mid range graphics card and it doesn't even have that much technology in it...  Can anybody say 300$ GeForce 7200 with 32 MB of 64 bit memory and that "magnificent" TurboCache!?!

So, I sincerely hope that ATi and brings back the equilibrium back in this race, or we will ALL loose...


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## Polaris573 (Sep 19, 2005)

ShinyG said:
			
		

> Everybody is screwing ATi, it seems like. I hope you are all right and ATi goes bankrupt, so that Nvidia will buy them as they did with 3dfx, and then they will have a thing called "monopoly". All the Nvidia wackos will be so happy that they will pay a bucket of money for entry level cards, because, you see..., when you have control of the market, you dictate the price... Look at the graphic tablet market, where Wacom "rules" everything. A decent tablet costs more than a mid range graphics card and it doesn't even have that much technology in it...  Can anybody say 300$ GeForce 7200 with 32 MB of 64 bit memory and that "magnificent" TurboCache!?!
> 
> So, I sincerely hope that ATi and brings back the equilibrium back in this race, or we will ALL loose...



Hey! Someone brought a valuable bit of truth to an ATI vs. Nvidia battle.  Think about what he said next time you're staunchly supporting a product for the sole reason that a certain arrangement of letters spells ATI, Nvidia, AMD, or Intel.  Anyone can give reasons why one company is better than the other for one simple reason:  ALL OF THEM HAVE HAD A PERIOD WHEN THEY WERE BETTER THAN THE COMPETITION!  I will now step off my soapbox, thankyou.


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## Sephiroth (Sep 19, 2005)

loll i have X850 XT and i can run AA in 16 x i dont know where they take this !!!  
yeah 7800 GTX beat x850 xt pe but like all people say wait for the next one from ati nvidia are very stoopid to said thing like that loll


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## Sephiroth (Sep 19, 2005)

and look anyone who post in this forum all people have ati card !! nvidia want to conquer the world but i dont think he will win !! ATI all the way !


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## Unregistered (Sep 20, 2005)

Unregistered said:
			
		

> Uh.... so what good cards Nvidia made during the 9800 era?
> 
> The Dustbuster Geforce series?



hhahaha you have the good question !! and i have the anwser : NOTHING time of 9800 pro nvidia have nothing to face the monster of 9800 LOLLLL !!! next year it will be another thing


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## Unregistered (Sep 20, 2005)

Unregistered said:
			
		

> This is insane.  Haha, ur going to choose your brand preference over a press release that is technically completly accurate? Every word on those slides is true (im positive nVidia would make damn sure of that), even if it is spun.  Everything in the world is about spin, just like who ATI as telling the whole world that crossfire would be better than SLI, even when u looked at it and noticed that your crossfired board would not be compatable with even future ATI cards.  Your master card would still be good if you wanted to upgrade from one x800 to another x800 (not really an upgrade), if you wanted to go to their x1800 or whatever ud need at least a new Crossfire Card, possibly a new motherboard (they havent talked about being forward-compatible).  Nvidia is fixing all the quirkiness with SLI (which was a technology developed for the PCI bus you might remember) and its actually pretty good now.  Crossfire still doesnt exist.  So if you can tell me that YOUR Crossfire setup is better than MY SLI setup (which isnt very good, athlon64 3000, asus a8n sli deluxe, 2 6600gts) then ill buy you a cookie, but since you obviously cant, i think the cookie is safe.




its stoopid what you said !! its not a beast your pc my little 3.6 / 2 gig of ddr2 / x850 xt pe / beat your little pc 2 time  lol


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## Unregistered (Sep 20, 2005)

For the issue on the Sil 1161:

http://www.penstarsys.com/#xfire_sil
http://www.penstarsys.com/#upd_xfire


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## Unregistered (Sep 20, 2005)

(Same poster as above)

Also, Nvidia said that it would take at least 4 months for CrossFire to come onto the market from its announcement. No doubt they will know about it - SLI was announced in late June 2004, the first vendor PC using the NF4 SLI chipset was only announced in October 2004, and the chipset wasn't even available to the market until December 2004.

Obviously they drew from their own experience.


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## kRaZeD (Sep 21, 2005)

Unregistered said:
			
		

> its stoopid what you said !! its not a beast your pc my little 3.6 / 2 gig of ddr2 / x850 xt pe / beat your little pc 2 time  lol


When people can construct coherent sentances that have structure, and form, then i might believe them that they have a very nice computer.

But as it stands, with your shocking spelling, and non existant grammar i would say you are in the 11 - 13 year age group, and are sitting at home using a Celeron 1.2ghz with 128mb RAM on windowx XP home.


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## Unregistered (Sep 21, 2005)

nVidia lies, ATI lies, what's the difference...

Both high end nVidia and ATI cards are better for certain games and worse for others... It's quite impossible to tell 'this one is the best'...

You simply have to choose card that's suited for your needs...
For me my FX5900 >> X850... simply due to pretty weak starting developer support of ATI (understand none).
If I was playing car simulators, I'd rather take ATI cards...
If I was playing RPG games (especially MMORPGs), I'd take no other than nVidia...
Why? Because most of games of certain type use similar or same engines and/or using similar algorithms that are coded to work best on one or other GPU.

my 2 cents ;-)


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## AceFactor (Sep 21, 2005)

If anyone has done their 6800 Ultra vs X850xt (PE) homework, they will notice that they perform completely different to each other! Play Doom 3 with a 6800 Ultra, and it perform better than an X850XT (PE). However, if you play HL2 then the X850XT (PE) will perform greater than the 6800 Ultra.

The 6800x range of cards perform alot better with OpenGL than the Radeon X850x range of cards. If I had a 6800 Ultra, i would argue that it is way better, but that is just child like. I have an X850XT, which i have modded to X850XT PE, but i'm not going to go around discrediting every NVidia owner.

They all have their down-points, and unique features, but when it comes does to the crunch, they pretty much perform the same as each other, in that price bracket.

I agree with kRaZeD, if you have proof. .then people may listen to you, but if you're just noobing about how good this or that is- cause ur 12/13. .go away and grow up. .and before you ask. .i'm 2 month's from 18   

Thats my lot.. .thanks for reading   

-Adam


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## silverhaze (Dec 6, 2005)

http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=2542

Thank god for Nvidia and ATI thats what i say.
  I h8 to see ppl slag off one or the other.Both these companies are supurb,if we were to loose either one of them we would soon see a massive decrease in quality over price.

 And personaly i am very excited about the chip in the obove review,i will deffo be going down the crossfire road.2  x1800xt's sounds damn good to me(ok one at the mo till the master versions come out).

  Have ordered it all allready and can't wait for it all to arrive 
sapphire crossfire pure advantage mobo
x1800xt 512 gc
4000+cpu
2 gig xms

 Long live ATI  

Goodbye.


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## TheOther_3DIS (Dec 13, 2005)

*Hurray for ATI and Nvidia...*

I see that a thread meant to bring down ATI just made it Bigger. lol

The best way to look to these reports is: 
“Let them fight and bite each other and in the end we will have a better product.

Have fun gamers.

Hurray for ATI and Nvidia Hurray.


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## Polaris573 (Dec 13, 2005)

All hail Nvidia, ATI, SiS, and XGI!


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## silverhaze (Dec 13, 2005)

Nvidaia ,ATI and who? lol ....sorry


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## Polaris573 (Dec 13, 2005)

I meant to say XGI not Volari (Volari is the name of the card they make like Radeon or Geforce).  So far their cards are nothing special but they appear to be working to improve.  I wish Volari the best of luck because I think it would be great to have three major graphics companies instead of the present two.


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