# GK104 PCB Pictured in Full



## btarunr (Mar 2, 2012)

Here is the first true-color picture of the GeForce Kepler 104 (GK104) reference PCB shot in full (well, almost, excluding the uneventful PCIe bus connector). The picture provides a panoramic view of the card's VRM as shown in a drawing posted earlier this day, and reveals the strange double-decker power connector. The card is loaded with a 5-phase NVVDC configuration, as detailed in an older article. It also confirms that the GK104 has a 256-bit wide memory interface, with likely 2 GB standard memory amount. This is also the first picture of the GK104 ASIC, which has square package, and somewhat square die. While the PCB is green in color, it's most likely an engineering sample. The final product (branded GeForce GTX 680 / GTX 670 Ti), could have a black-colored one.





*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## 3volvedcombat (Mar 2, 2012)

Yay GK104 competetion here we come!

first comment 

AMD has been riding the train alone for a while. Finnally some company. 

and price competition/ .


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## DarkOCean (Mar 2, 2012)

The chip looks small below 300mm but i hope it will be as good as nvidia want us to believe.


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## chaotic_uk (Mar 2, 2012)

that looks odd around the pci-e power , how thick will it be ?


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## legends84 (Mar 2, 2012)

do want!!!!


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## NHKS (Mar 2, 2012)

At last! something to see in flesh rather than just words & words of speculation..


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## H82LUZ73 (Mar 2, 2012)

LOL all you guys miss the 2 fan ports .......Means 2 fans on the cooler ...uhm Where is my eggs.


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## NorthEndJon (Mar 2, 2012)

H82LUZ73 said:


> LOL all you guys miss the 2 fan ports .......Means 2 fans on the cooler ...uhm Where is my eggs.



Theres only one 4 pin PWM fan port at the end of the board. The 2 pin at the top has a JP under it, designating it as some sort of jumper. Likely not a fan port. Sorry.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Mar 2, 2012)

3volvedcombat said:


> Yay GK104 competetion here we come!
> 
> first comment
> 
> ...



I hope so man. Since amd just threw their 7900 in a new price bracket and didn't displace the 69's, if gk104 outperforms the 7970 by only a tiny bit nvidia will still price it higher and I'm pretty sure amd won't budge on their price. 

But competition is always good!


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## cadaveca (Mar 2, 2012)

NorthEndJon said:


> Theres only one 4 pin PWM fan port at the end of the board. The 2 pin at the top has a JP under it, designating it as some sort of jumper. Likely not a fan port. Sorry.



Looks liek a 2-pin Fan connector to me too. Could be a jumper, or perhaps a VRM test point, but I like fan power just as much.


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## NorthEndJon (Mar 2, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> Looks liek a 2-pin Fan connector to me too. Could be a jumper, or perhaps a VRM test point, but I like fan power just as much.



Eh, I'd be inclined to agree, but once again, there is what appears to me a JP under that top connector. I've seen it on ALOT of Nvidia cards. I do belive its for Audio Passthrough, just incase you want to use your sound cards digital out instead of Nvidia's onboard. However, we're all just speculating. Given its markings though, I'm mighty sure its not a fan port.


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## NHKS (Mar 2, 2012)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> I hope so man. Since amd just threw their 7900 in a new price bracket and didn't displace the 69's, if gk104 outperforms the 7970 by only a tiny bit nvidia will still price it higher and I'm pretty sure amd won't budge on their price.
> 
> But competition is always good!




that seems a scary scenario.. just 'in case' GK104 is consistenly faster than 7970 but only a bit;  HD7970 @ $550 meaning <GK104> @ $600?! OH DEAR!


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## H82LUZ73 (Mar 2, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> Looks liek a 2-pin Fan connector to me too. Could be a jumper, or perhaps a VRM test point, but I like fan power just as much.



Looks like a 2nd fan port that reads rpm s ....But that is just what it looks like to me.Remember  the old Y split Thermal take power fan with speed control cables like these http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=y%20fan%20cable&x=20&y=33&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-RSSDailyDeals-_-na-_-na&AID=10521304&PID=4176827&SID=1erucig6t6yda .could mean the 2nd fan is powered with the first and has it own rpm plug

The audio pass through is a what????... it is 2012 and they are still using 95 specs for it to have sound......Looks more like a fan rpm plug.


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## Finners (Mar 2, 2012)

GPU seems very small.

Bring it on i say. For the consumer AMD need to drop their price now so if this is better then them nvidia put it just above. Other wise nvidia will price it at £500 and never drop it


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## Filiprino (Mar 2, 2012)

NVIDIA can go now and suck my *****

What are those 2 DVI ports one on top of the other?

Having only 1 line of ports is perfect because you can buy 1-slot backplates, put some watercooling and free up space for another card.

Having a tower of ports like the GTX590 is not great.


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## Crap Daddy (Mar 2, 2012)

Small and power efficient, NVidia finally turning green.


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## NorthEndJon (Mar 2, 2012)

H82LUZ73 said:


> Looks like a 2nd fan port that reads rpm s ....But that is just what it looks like to me.Remember  the old Y split Thermal take power fan with speed control cables like these http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=y%20fan%20cable&x=20&y=33&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-RSSDailyDeals-_-na-_-na&AID=10521304&PID=4176827&SID=1erucig6t6yda .could mean the 2nd fan is powered with the first and has it own rpm plug
> 
> The audio pass through is a what????... it is 2012 and they are still using 95 specs for it to have sound......Looks more like a fan rpm plug.



They have had Digital Audio Passthroughs on nearly every card I've ever seen from Nvidia. I know the GTX480 has one. Its so you can use your sound cards digital out with your HDMI connection to your TV.


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## lukcic (Mar 2, 2012)

if you buy this card you can't install any other hw in the case, it's humongulous


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## cadaveca (Mar 2, 2012)

NorthEndJon said:


> They have had Digital Audio Passthroughs on nearly every card I've ever seen from Nvidia. I know the GTX480 has one. Its so you can use your sound cards digital out with your HDMI connection to your TV.



I do not beleive that the 5-series cards had this audio port. As soon as you mentioned the audio port, I thought "heck, yeah, that's what it is...", and then  Iremembered the 5-series cards...

590(with similar secondary fan port):







580:






570:


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## NorthEndJon (Mar 2, 2012)

Sadly, my job hasn't given my any 500 series cards to play with yet, so it seems my point may be moot. We refurb systems and the biggest card I've seen so far is the 480.

HOWEVER, my gut still tells me not a fan header 

Edit: Just noticed that all those cards have the solder points for that header, and also have the same Designation as "J8". It appears thats what the one on the Kepler says too. J8 IS the HDMI audio passthrough on all of them, since the 8000 series. So I stand by my assumption.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 2, 2012)

NorthEndJon said:


> They have had Digital Audio Passthroughs on nearly every card I've ever seen from Nvidia. I know the GTX480 has one. Its so you can use your sound cards digital out with your HDMI connection to your TV.



They haven't need the digital pass though since the GTX200 series.  The 400 and 500 series all have a built in audio processor that outputs sound via HDMI so no sound input to the card is requried. The GTX480 definitely does not have an audio passthrough.



cadaveca said:


> I do not beleive that the 5-series cards had this audio port. As soon as you mentioned the audio port, I thought "heck, yeah, that's what it is...", and then  Iremembered the 5-series cards...
> 
> 590(with similar secondary fan port):
> 
> ...



I don't think it is a audio port.  I think nVidia is done with requiring that now that they have a working sound card design that they can include with the GPU.  As you pointed out, the GTX590 has a similar connector that isn't an audio connector.  I'm guessing it is something else, possible a place to connect an LED or something for a light in the heatsink.

Edit:  I just went back and looked at the GTX590, the port is definitely used to power the little LED to light up the GeForce logo.  So I'm certain that is what is is being used for here as well.


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## Ferrum Master (Mar 2, 2012)

newtekie1 said:


> They haven't need the digital pass though since the GTX200 series.  The 400 and 500 series all have a built in audio processor that outputs sound via HDMI so no sound input to the card is requried. The GTX480 definitely does not have an audio passthrough.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You are right it is for the LEDs... the GTX280 had the same...


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## NorthEndJon (Mar 2, 2012)

newtekie1 said:


> They haven't need the digital pass though since the GTX200 series.  The 400 and 500 series all have a built in audio processor that outputs sound via HDMI so no sound input to the card is requried. The GTX480 definitely does not have an audio passthrough.



The GTX480/470 and 465 do not have HDMI audio processors. Look it up. The 460 does.



newtekie1 said:


> I don't think it is a audio port.  I think nVidia is done with requiring that now that they have a working sound card design that they can include with the GPU.  As you pointed out, the GTX590 has a similar connector that isn't an audio connector.  I'm guessing it is something else, possible a place to connect an LED or something for a light in the heatsink.
> 
> Edit:  I just went back and looked at the GTX590, the port is definitely used to power the little LED to light up the GeForce logo.  So I'm certain that is what is is being used for here as well.



I do admit that this likely is what its for aswell. I didn't think of that.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 2, 2012)

Ferrum Master said:


> You are right it is for the LEDs... the GTX280 had the same...



Yeah, I just went and looked at the GTX480.  It has the connector, but it is used to power LEDs as well, though the reference cooler didn't have LEDs AFAIK, but other manufacturers included them.  I believe the GTX280 actually did use it as an audio passthrough, not for LEDs.



NorthEndJon said:


> The GTX480/470 and 465 do not have HDMI audio processors. Look it up. The 460 does.



I don't have to look it up, I own 3 GTX470s and a GTX465(look at my specs and sig), as well as I've owned 2 GTX480s.  I can tell you they do have HDMI audio processors built in.

If you want solid proof just read W1z's review of the GTX480:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_480_Fermi/3.html



> NVIDIA has included an HDMI sound device inside their GPU which does away with the requirement of connecting an external audio source to the card for HDMI audio.



And actually, the GT220/240 were the first nVidia cards to not need the passthrough.  But they didn't have onboard sound devices, they just passed the signal through the PCI-e bus.  At the very least, I can't see nVidia using this method if they weren't including a sound device, because it is far less of a pain in the ass than needing a special cable and SPDIF output.


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## nickbaldwin86 (Mar 2, 2012)

Just me or does it looks like 3 pCI slots


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## Ferrum Master (Mar 2, 2012)

newtekie1 said:


> I believe the GTX280 actually did use it as an audio passthrough, not for LEDs.



Nah... Audio connector was right beside PEG power connectors...


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## NorthEndJon (Mar 2, 2012)

newtekie1 said:


> Yeah, I just went and looked at the GTX480.  It has the connector, but it is used to power LEDs as well, though the reference cooler didn't have LEDs AFAIK, but other manufacturers included them.  I believe the GTX280 actually did use it as an audio passthrough, not for LEDs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm talking about true bitstreaming audio here. DTS-HD and Dolby plus and such. The 480/470/465 can not do that without an audio pass through. Its not built into the GF100 die. Yes, it has an audio device, but to get full support, it needs to be hooked to an external sound card.

So essentially, we're both right.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 2, 2012)

Ferrum Master said:


> Nah... Audio connector was right beside PEG power connectors...
> 
> http://pcper.com/images/reviews/577...2&tbnw=186&start=0&ndsp=27&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0



Nah?  Shouldn't that be "yes"?



NorthEndJon said:


> I'm talking about true bitstreaming audio here. DTS-HD and Dolby plus and such. The 480/470/465 can not do that without an audio pass through. Its not built into the GF100 die. Yes, it has an audio device, but to get full support, it needs to be hooked to an external sound card.
> 
> So essentially, we're both right.



No, you are wrong.  There is no way to passthrough audio on a GTX480/470/465.  The GTX470 and GTX465 didn't even have the connector on the PCB, and the connector on the GTX480 was used for LEDs, and would likely fry your sound card if you tried connecting it to the SPDIF.

Oh, and my GTX470s handle DTS-HD just fine over HDMI without any passthrough.


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## Apocalypsee (Mar 2, 2012)

nickbaldwin86 said:


> Just me or does it looks like 3 pCI slots


No its just two, look closely, the bottom slot also have vent


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## NorthEndJon (Mar 2, 2012)

newtekie1 said:


> Nah?  Shouldn't that be "yes"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Digital Audio
• Support for the following audio modes:
o Dolby Digital (AC3), DTS 5.1, Multi-channel (7.1) LPCM, Dolby Digital Plus (DD+), MPEG2/MPEG4 AAC
• Data rates of 44.1 KHz, 48 KHz, 88.2 KHz, 96 KHz, 176 KHz, and 192 KHz
• Word sizes of 16-bit, 20-bit, and 24-bit

Straight from the Spec sheet. I don't see bitstreaming or DTS-HD on there. Do you? I admit to being wrong about the Dolby Plus, but at this point we're both splitting hairs.

It's probably for the Lighting.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 2, 2012)

NorthEndJon said:


> Digital Audio
> • Support for the following audio modes:
> o Dolby Digital (AC3), DTS 5.1, Multi-channel (7.1) LPCM, Dolby Digital Plus (DD+), MPEG2/MPEG4 AAC
> • Data rates of 44.1 KHz, 48 KHz, 88.2 KHz, 96 KHz, 176 KHz, and 192 KHz
> ...



What can I say, it works.  Though it very well could be software down sampling before sending it to the audio processor.  But at this point you are just trying to make yourself look good, the main point is that the connector is not for audio passthrough.


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## robal (Mar 2, 2012)

This chip doesn't have IHS.
It would be a good decision to get rid of the thing...


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## cadaveca (Mar 2, 2012)

NorthEndJon said:


> Multi-channel (7.1) LPCM



Is usually used for HD Audio.


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## nickbaldwin86 (Mar 2, 2012)

Apocalypsee said:


> No its just two, look closely, the bottom slot also have vent



Ya I guess they are just DP ports. and it makes it look bigger then it really is. really bad picture :shadedshu


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## NorthEndJon (Mar 2, 2012)

newtekie1 said:


> What can I say, it works.  Though it very well could be software down sampling before sending it to the audio processor.  But at this point you are just trying to make yourself look good, the main point is that the connector is not for audio passthrough.



Thats just cold blooded bro. None of us know what it is, we're all speculating. It could power an external popcorn popper for all we know.



cadaveca said:


> Is usually used for HD Audio.



But not for DTS-HD. It required bitstream, not PCM stream.


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## fullinfusion (Mar 2, 2012)

Thats what I was wondering, looks like a three slot card.... are we there yet?


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## NorthEndJon (Mar 2, 2012)

No, its definately 2 slots. The ASUS version will likely be 3, but the ref will be 2.


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## cadaveca (Mar 2, 2012)

NorthEndJon said:


> Thats just cold blooded bro. None of us know what it is, we're all speculating. It could power an external popcorn popper for all we know.
> 
> 
> 
> But not for DTS-HD. It required bitstream, not PCM stream.



Tell tht to Sony.  PS3 outputs DTS-HD/Dolby-HD in LPCM. It's simply decoded the n sent in LPCM(yes, there can be artifacting). Only the SLIM PS3 does bitstream properly.

Alas, you are correct, it's not true DTS-HD, but it's what it does.


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## NorthEndJon (Mar 2, 2012)

Yeah, but thats forced through firmware, and Sony admits its not compliant. Eh, Sony lost me forever when they took my Linux away. Pawned that mofo the day it happened.

I'm changing my mind again. Its for the TEC cooler this thing is gonna need to keep cool.


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## cadaveca (Mar 2, 2012)

TEC cooler.  +1. 

Crazy power plug scheme going on there, has me kinda weirded out. liek WTF is going on here...seems like GTX480 again, with later card giving ful functionality? I am so confused about these NV cards...and I want one! Kinda sick of AMd's driver problems.


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## NorthEndJon (Mar 2, 2012)

Thats exactly why I'm jumping ship. Had a 4850 for years now, and I'm just sick of every driver update either messing up my fan profiles or oc. I'm tired of it. I mean, its been 4 years and they STILL haven't fixed the corrupted mouse on dual monitors bug. Its friggan retarded. I just ordered one of the EVGA 480s on newegg for 200 bucks. Mighty good bang for your buck if you ask me.


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## NHKS (Mar 2, 2012)

For who are debating on the fan / audio / logo-LED connector, this link I found in EVGA forums might be useful:

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=673260&mpage=1&print=true

It talks about *LEDs in GTX 580s and also in GTX 480*(engineering samples).


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## Ferrum Master (Mar 2, 2012)

I thought we were talking about a connector like in the right bottom corner... that is truly a led connector for 280ties...


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## Crap Daddy (Mar 2, 2012)

2x6 pin one on top of the other? ES... think they might change it? The chip seems to be 340ish mm2 as some have pointed out.


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## [H]@RD5TUFF (Mar 2, 2012)

Looks yummy, and best of all it's drivers will not break with every update, or just flat not work to begin with.


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## Munki (Mar 2, 2012)

I am kinda excited. Regardless of weather that stupid connector is for sound or LEDs, I don't know about you all, but I use my GPUs for graphics, not for an overpriced LEDs or a noise maker. lol


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## m1dg3t (Mar 2, 2012)

Finally some real news coming about Kepler! I don't like the design/layout, hopefully just an ES model so end product hopefully be different  

Hurry up and release nVidia so ATi can drop 7900 price's and i can maybe upgrade


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## seronx (Mar 2, 2012)

Crap Daddy said:


> 2x6 pin one on top of the other? ES... think they might change it? The chip seems to be 340ish mm2 as some have pointed out.



It's a 6-pin on top of an 8-pin.


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## hhumas (Mar 2, 2012)

lets see what happens


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## seronx (Mar 2, 2012)

hhumas said:


> lets see what happens



Harold Camping's new rapture prediction March 23rd, 2012!!!


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## wolf (Mar 2, 2012)

9/10 of this thread is arguments over a 2 pin connector? come on guys whatabout the KICKASS new GPU on that PCB? the new VRM and pci-e power arrangement, or good old fashioned performance speculation?


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## OneCool (Mar 2, 2012)

Well theres a picture of it...... meh


W1z needs to be posting a review before I care how many fan connectors it has 


WTF is up with the power connectors though.Theres like a freaking stack of them?

I can see to the future a new PSU PCI-E connector spec coming soon


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## Crap Daddy (Mar 2, 2012)

wolf said:


> 9/10 of this thread is arguments over a 2 pin connector? come on guys whatabout the KICKASS new GPU on that PCB? the new VRM and pci-e power arrangement, or good old fashioned performance speculation?



OK I'll give you a "good old fashion performance speculation".

Kyle Bennet at HardOCP says a few minutes ago:

"I am seeing information out of China this morning showing 45% to 50% performance increase over 580 in canned benchmarks."


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## alexsubri (Mar 2, 2012)

meh...


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## seronx (Mar 2, 2012)

alexsubri said:


> meh...



It is a sample board.

ASUS's one is going to be neon red with a black PCB.
I'm joking.


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## badtaylorx (Mar 2, 2012)

im getting a chubby just thinking of soldering on another 6pin and REALLY seeing what this lil bad bitch can do!!!


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## NorthEndJon (Mar 2, 2012)

irazer said:


> power connectors is that way, because of big turbine and not enough space for it. - image



I think you've nailed it. The power connectors will be stacked because the fan is big.


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## semantics (Mar 2, 2012)

NorthEndJon said:


> I think you've nailed it. The power connectors will be stacked because the fan is big.


maybe but look at the board it looks like it could have 2 pcie female connectors on there but they chose to stack an 6 on an 8 for w.e reason, it's probably an eng sample and nvidia is messing around with ideas. Maybe it will only need a 8 pin and the 6 pin or optional vice versa. But it is nvidia who knows i gave up guessing when they stacked 2 pbcs on top of each other for a dual gpu "solution".


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## OneCool (Mar 2, 2012)

Isnt this a 22nm part and shouldnt it be better on power consumption?

So whats up with the massive VRM and crazy pci-e power connectors?

5800 Ultra all over again?

The new and improved "dustbuster"


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## NC37 (Mar 2, 2012)

Ahh nekkid PCB photos, the nerd's nudie mag..."Shake it Keppy, you know what we like!"


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## newtekie1 (Mar 2, 2012)

seronx said:


> It's a 6-pin on top of an 8-pin.



It seems like it depends on which ES you look at.  The one from ChipHell seems to be an 8-pin on top of a 6-pin, but the other thread shows just a 6-pin on top of a 6-pin.  So it seems like either or depending on the sample.  I'm guessing the early samples used 6-pin+8pin because they wanted to make sure they had enough power, and the later samples were reduced to a 6-pin+6-pin once they were sure that is all it needed.



Ferrum Master said:


> I thought we were talking about a connector like in the right bottom corner... that is truly a led connector for 280ties...
> 
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_280_Amp_Edition/images/front.jpg



Oh yeah, I never even noticed the spot on the GTX280 PCB for the LED connector in the bottom right, probably because it doesn't have the connector actually there.  Good eyes!  The one at the top next to the power was definitely for the audio pass through like you and I said.  So I'm positive the connector on the GK104 PCB is definitely for an LED and not an audio passthrough.  Because even if they did need an audio passthrough, nVidia would do what they did with the GT220/240 and just pass it via the PCI-E bus.


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## Benetanegia (Mar 2, 2012)

Crap Daddy said:


> OK I'll give you a "good old fashion performance speculation".
> 
> Kyle Bennet at HardOCP says a few minutes ago:
> 
> "I am seeing information out of China this morning showing 45% to 50% performance increase over 580 in canned benchmarks."



If that ends up being true (paint me an skeptical face), it will be fun the day reviews come in, everybody could tell me "see? you were wrong, it's not 25% faster than GTX580, it's 50% faster."


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## Fluffmeister (Mar 2, 2012)

Heh, maybe they could do an "AMD"

http://www.xbitlabs.com/picture/?src=/images/video/radeon-hd6970-hd6950/30_697_pcbpw_big.jpg


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## Crap Daddy (Mar 2, 2012)

Benetanegia said:


> If that ends up being true (paint me an skeptical face), it will be fun the day reviews come in, everybody could tell me "see? you were wrong, it's not 25% faster than GTX580, it's 50% faster."



Here's more cryptic info from the aforementioned Kyle:

"Quote:
Originally Posted by pelo  
Is that chiphell you're referring to? If so I'd be wary...

If it is true then let's hope the price wars continue 

_No, I am not referring to web based resources at all. I never make comments on here based on anything I read online._

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxleitnerb  
We're still talking about GK104, right? Canned in what way? Have they solved the high res problem (Fermi didn't do too well there)?

_680 vs 580 - Artificial 3D benchmarks._"

He says GTX680. Hmmm...


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## semantics (Mar 2, 2012)

OneCool said:


> Isnt this a 22nm part and shouldnt it be better on power consumption?
> 
> So whats up with the massive VRM and crazy pci-e power connectors?
> 
> ...


If newer generations used less power then before then we still be talking about 350w psu vs 300w psu, which was just a hand full of years ago XD, we probably also have more free expansions slots because dual slot monstrosity wouldn't have come out.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 2, 2012)

OneCool said:


> Isnt this a 22nm part and shouldnt it be better on power consumption?
> 
> So whats up with the massive VRM and crazy pci-e power connectors?
> 
> ...



A 5 phase VRM is massive?  You realize the 7970, the part nVidia claims the GK104 will outperform, uses a 5 phase VRM as well, right?

Lowering the nm does yield better power consumption, however if you pair that with also increasing the performance, then the power consumption stays right about the same.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Mar 3, 2012)

NorthEndJon said:


> Theres only one 4 pin PWM fan port at the end of the board. The 2 pin at the top has a JP under it, designating it as some sort of jumper. Likely not a fan port. Sorry.



Thats exactly what I was going to say


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## xenocide (Mar 3, 2012)

newtekie1 said:


> A 5 phase VRM is massive?  You realize the 7970, the part nVidia claims the GK104 will outperform, uses a 5 phase VRM as well, right?
> 
> Lowering the nm does yield better power consumption, however if you pair that with also increasing the performance, then the power consumption stays right about the same.



People tend to forget this a lot.  Lowering from 40nm to 22nm means you can get the same performance with lower power consumption, but when you try to increase the performance as well, it tends to be about the same.  If this card does use the same amount of power as the 7970 and outperforms it... oh damn...


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## bear jesus (Mar 3, 2012)

The location of the VRMs makes me wonder what the water blocks will look like and if any will have water run over the VRMs, i do not mind the stacked outputs as long as it supports 3 screens from a single card (i am assuming that is the reason for the stacked DVI ports).

Other than that I look forward to the reviews and hope it could be a suitable option for me.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 3, 2012)

bear jesus said:


> The location of the VRMs makes me wonder what the water blocks will look like and if any will have water run over the VRMs, i do not mind the stacked outputs as long as it supports 3 screens from a single card (i am assuming that is the reason for the stacked DVI ports).
> 
> Other than that I look forward to the reviews and hope it could be a suitable option for me.



It isn't like the manufacturers have to use the stacked DVI and power connectors either.  There is a location for a 6-pin next to the stacked power connectors that can be used to make a single slot card, and I'm sure they can drop off a DVI connector if they wanted to, or easily change the output configuration any way they choose just by making very simple changed to the PCB.  Look at some of the Zotac cards at launch of the GTX500 series, they had almost completely reference PCBs, but had stacked DVI connectors to add output functionality.  Changing the output configuration is probably the easiest PCB change a manufacturer can make.

Also, who is to even say these will support quad-SLI, the previous generation mid-range only did dual-SLI, so these can do triple but maybe not quad, quad might be reserved for the real big boys of this generation which we haven't seen yet.


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## bear jesus (Mar 3, 2012)

newtekie1 said:


> It isn't like the manufacturers have to use the stacked DVI and power connectors either.  There is a location for a 6-pin next to the stacked power connectors that can be used to make a single slot card, and I'm sure they can drop off a DVI connector if they wanted to, or easily change the output configuration any way they choose just by making very simple changed to the PCB.  Look at some of the Zotac cards at launch of the GTX500 series, they had almost completely reference PCBs, but had stacked DVI connectors to add output functionality.  Changing the output configuration is probably the easiest PCB change a manufacturer can make.
> 
> Also, who is to even say these will support quad-SLI, the previous generation mid-range only did dual-SLI, so these can do triple but maybe not quad, quad might be reserved for the real big boys of this generation which we haven't seen yet.



True but i have 3 DVI screens so i like the 2 DVI ports  and I only want a single card so being dual slot still when a water block is installed would be a non issue to me.

The previous gen mid range had single SLI bridges i thought? thus they were hardware limited to 2 cards but with 2 bridges the 4 card setup is mainly limited by software support i thought? and if the GK104 is to be named the 680 and 670 surly it is not the mid range and the big boy would be the 690 as in dual GK104?

Honestly i know too little solid info for me to have any idea what is going on with the 6xx generation.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 3, 2012)

bear jesus said:


> True but i have 3 DVI screens so i like the 2 DVI ports  and I only want a single card so being dual slot still when a water block is installed would be a non issue to me.



As I said, the stacked DVIs can be changed to the traditional layout that the GTX500/400 series used without much effort by the manufacturers.



bear jesus said:


> The previous gen mid range had single SLI bridges i thought? thus they were hardware limited to 2 cards but with 2 bridges the 4 card setup is mainly limited by software support i thought?



Yes, the GTX560/460 both had a single SLI connector.  But they were always software limitted.  The dual-GTX460/560 cards that eVGA put out had another SLI connector on them because hardware wise they could do triple-SLI, but nVidia limitted them via the driver.  I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same with the GK104, except they software limit it to triple-SLI.

The GTX285 was supposed to be triple-SLI, but turned out to be software limited too, eVGA's classified card proved that.  In fact, G92 was quad-SLI capable too, and the 9800GTX had the two connectors, but the 9800GTX was limited to tri-SLI. To get quad-SLI with G92 you had to use two 9800GX2s. So I wouldn't put it past nVidia to only allow tri-SLI on the GK104, and really I don't see a lot of people buying these for more anyway.  I don't see a lot of people buying any card for quad-SLI actually, even the current generation, there are a few but not many.



bear jesus said:


> and if the GK104 is to be named the 680 and 670 surly it is not the mid range and the big boy would be the 690 as in dual GK104?
> 
> Honestly i know too little solid info for me to have any idea what is going on with the 6xx generation.



It is the mid-range.  We haven't heard a lot about the high end, but there will be a single GPU that is higher than the GK104, we already know that.


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## bear jesus (Mar 3, 2012)

newtekie1 said:


> As I said, the stacked DVIs can be changed to the traditional layout that the GTX500/400 series used without much effort by the manufacturers.



I'm sorry i should have been more clear, i like the 2 stacked DVI ports, i mean it as in i would be happy with the reference model.




newtekie1 said:


> Yes, the GTX560/460 both had a single SLI connector.  But they were always software limitted.  The dual-GTX460/560 cards that eVGA put out had another SLI connector on them because hardware wise they could do triple-SLI, but nVidia limitted them via the driver.  I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same with the GK104, except they software limit it to triple-SLI.
> 
> The GTX285 was supposed to be triple-SLI, but turned out to be software limited too, eVGA's classified card proved that.  In fact, G92 was quad-SLI capable too, and the 9800GTX had the two connectors, but the 9800GTX was limited to tri-SLI. To get quad-SLI with G92 you had to use two 9800GX2s. So I wouldn't put it past nVidia to only allow tri-SLI on the GK104, and really I don't see a lot of people buying these for more anyway.  I don't see a lot of people buying any card for quad-SLI actually, even the current generation, there are a few but not many.



I just assumed the single bridge could have been a physical limit even if there was no software limit but i agree lots of Nvidia SLI setups are software limited to 3 even when there is no possible hardware limit and it would not be surprising if these are but i have no idea until it is released.



newtekie1 said:


> It is the mid-range.  We haven't heard a lot about the high end, but there will be a single GPU that is higher than the GK104, we already know that.



First i just have to point out according to that link GK104 has a 384-bit bus but it looks like it actually has a 256 bit bus and it also says 640 to 768 CUDA cores but it is now rumored that GK104 has 1536 CUDA cores so really until the NDA is lifted i would not truly trust any information but i should have included a link with my last post which would have explained my last sentence so here it is now

My main thought is why is GK104 rumored to be the 680 and 670? is it just bad information or is Nvidia changing the naming or is there something else going on?
I truly have no idea until i can see something official as i have read way too many random rumors which are quite possibly untrue.


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## GC_PaNzerFIN (Mar 3, 2012)

VRM for memory looks same as GTX 570/580. VRM for gpu seems to be upscaled GTX 470 VRM (+1 phase). 

Definately built with overclocking in mind otherwise you'd have gone cheaper way. Oh and definately closer to +400€ card, mark my words.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 3, 2012)

GC_PaNzerFIN said:


> VRM for memory looks same as GTX 570/580. VRM for gpu seems to be upscaled GTX 470 VRM (+1 phase).
> 
> Definately built with overclocking in mind otherwise you'd have gone cheaper way. Oh and definately closer to +400€ card, mark my words.



Of course it is going to be an expensive card, it is supposed to outperform the HD7970, so it will likely be priced the same or higher.


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## THE_EGG (Mar 3, 2012)

Ferrum Master said:


> Nah... Audio connector was right beside PEG power connectors...
> 
> http://pcper.com/images/reviews/577...2&tbnw=186&start=0&ndsp=27&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0



Agreed I remember that on my ancient gtx 260 SP216 (1792mb)


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## puma99dk| (Mar 3, 2012)

is it still true when Nvidia releases the GK104 it will be available in the stores worldwide aswell?

bcs i really hope that and that the price would be right so i can get EVGA's version ^^


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## largon (Mar 3, 2012)

btarunr said:


> (...) The card is loaded with a 5-phase NVVDC configuration, as detailed in an older article. (...)
> 
> [url]http://www.techpowerup.com/img/12-03-02/22a_thm.jpg[/URL]


Errr...
It's 5+1+1, and not 3+1+1 as detailed in the older article.


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## radarblade (Mar 3, 2012)

When will the benchmarks come? I soo badly want to see how it pwns the HD 7900 series.


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## Bjorn_Of_Iceland (Mar 3, 2012)

PCB looks short for their flagship card..


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## puma99dk| (Mar 3, 2012)

Bjorn_Of_Iceland said:


> PCB looks short for their flagship card..



maybe but, why not make the pcb compact? i mean if they r butting powerplugs on top of each other?

bcs making a ref design smaller it will fit in more cases so u can make a micro-atx or micro-itx gaming system without need to have a larger case ^^


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## LiveOrDie (Mar 3, 2012)

GIVE ME NOW NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW


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## puma99dk| (Mar 3, 2012)

Live OR Die said:


> GIVE ME NOW NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW



indeed but i hope it's in shop by the start of next month when i have some money but i hope it will be around 519~692USD / 396~528euro

but hopefully a little lower than that to beat AMD a little ^^


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## LiveOrDie (Mar 3, 2012)

My guess is it will be priced $20-30 more than the 7970 that is if this card is a GTX 680 i have the money ready now  .


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## Crap Daddy (Mar 3, 2012)

I'm convinced it will be well under the 7970 as price is concerned while performance will be in AMD's flagship ballpark. Remember this is the PERFORMANCE chip from NV which, due to what Tahiti is capable of (lower perf than expected), happens to compete with it. The big boy GK100-110 wil come later during the year.


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## xenocide (Mar 3, 2012)

Bjorn_Of_Iceland said:


> PCB looks short for their flagship card..



That's because it's their mid-range card, not their flagship.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 3, 2012)

Bjorn_Of_Iceland said:


> PCB looks short for their flagship card..



That is good, because it isn't the flagship card...


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## LiveOrDie (Mar 3, 2012)

Crap Daddy said:


> I'm convinced it will be well under the 7970 as price is concerned while performance will be in AMD's flagship ballpark. Remember this is the PERFORMANCE chip from NV which, due to what Tahiti is capable of (lower perf than expected), happens to compete with it. The big boy GK100-110 wil come later during the year.



Thats the how reason it will cost more than a 7970 it will perform around the same which will give nvidia till the end of the year to release there 7 series cards, If i remember nvidias last road map they had there flag ship card on the boarder of 2013, So these 6 series cards will give them the extra time they need.


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## seronx (Mar 3, 2012)

GK104 is the new flagship for the GeForce series.
GK104 is only a *GeForce* part.

GK112 is the new flagship for the Tesla/Quadro series.
GK112 is only a *Workstation* part.

GK106 once it comes out will take place of the mobile GPUs in the 700 series not the 600 series.

GK107
GK117
GK100
GK110
GF1xx 28 nm 
are all dead.

GTX 680 -> 64x8
GTX 670 -> 64x7
GTX 660 -> 64x6
GTX 650 -> 64x5
GTX 645 -> 64x4
with the lower parts just being rebrands till the 700 series


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## xenocide (Mar 3, 2012)

And what is your source for that?


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## GC_PaNzerFIN (Mar 3, 2012)

Two persons I know to have high level sources at manufacturers and NVIDIA haven't heard a thing about cancelling GK110, in fact one of them says it is very much alive but it won't be out any time soon. Q3 at best. 

I really would like to see the source that says otherwise.


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## Benetanegia (Mar 3, 2012)

xenocide said:


> And what is your source for that?



I remember the Bulldozer thread so yeah... his arse pretty much.


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## seronx (Mar 3, 2012)

xenocide said:


> And what is your source for that?





Benetanegia said:


> I remember the Bulldozer thread so yeah... his arse pretty much.


http://www.agner.org/optimize/blog/read.php?i=187 unforeseen bottlenecks


GC_PaNzerFIN said:


> Q3 at best.


Late Q3 - Early Q4 for GK110 = GK112 but the original GK100 and GK110 was cancelled.


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## xenocide (Mar 4, 2012)

You spent the better part of a year trying to convince people and quoting technical papers and AMD slides that said Bulldozer would outperform Intel offerings, how did that go again?


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## puma99dk| (Mar 4, 2012)

i just hope i got money enough next money even a GTX 660 Ti would be nice if it have least 2gigs of ram if not than it's just a waste of card.


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## THE_EGG (Mar 5, 2012)

xenocide said:


> You spent the better part of a year trying to convince people and quoting technical papers and AMD slides that said Bulldozer would outperform Intel offerings, how did that go again?



+1 to this. seronx always does this :L


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