# Sapphire Radeon HD 5870 Vapor-X OC Problem



## Gershwin (Aug 3, 2011)

Hello everyone.
First of all, i am absolutley not firm in overclocking, but will learn fast.

Ive bought this card a few days ago and it seems the card is incompatible with my system or just damaged.
Here some infos:
The cards specs are 875/1250 standard.
The Bios on it, was from week 11 2010, sapphrie allready send me a few weeks jounger one, i flashed it, but the problem remains.
The Problem:
After a while the card freezes my system with grey colored vertical lines, but stresstests like furmark tells me the card is max at 71°C, GPU-Z shows nothing special for me when crashing ... (this was the last log before the systems froze, and as you can see, the temperature was at 53°C, GPU load at 95%, Fan 1340)

2011-08-01 23:42:36 ,              875.0   ,               1250.0   ,               43.0   ,          24   ,         95   ,          1340   ,            43.5   ,            53.5   ,            50.5   ,  1.163   ,

        Date        , GPU Core Clock [MHz] , GPU Memory Clock [MHz] , GPU Temperature [°C] , Fan Speed [%] , GPU Load [%] , Fan Speed [RPM] , GPU Temp. #1 [°C] , GPU Temp. #2 [°C] , GPU Temp. #3 [°C] , VDDC [V] ,

When (don´t laugh please) underclocking  my card to 875/1200, so 50 less memory clock, the systems never freeze or give me any problems.

Sapphire support gave me the new bios, wich is allready on and pruduces the same faults, but on a V-Core of 1.185 V, even in idle.
I also tryed trixx on 1.2 V, same problem.

My idea is that (if the memory is not damaged, hopefully) my computer specs, espec. my Rams, are incompatible. I know my systems hardware is not the best, but i have a family to feed  and my bucks are limited.

I tryed overvolting the rams in mainboard bios, all settings to standard, no tuning etc. etc.
Problem remains where it is, the card freezes running at standard 875/1250, at 875/1200 perfect.

Cause sapphire gave me the link to the RBE tool, i came to this side and hoped you master of overclocking guys can help me with this.
Just for your info, i am not in need of more power eek but want a stable card and clearance about the problem (warranty). So if this means to flash the bios or else, i will listen, learn and do.

Don´t want to send in the card and get it back, cause my system causes the problem


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## Law-II (Aug 3, 2011)

Hi

Raise an RMA with sapphiretech the vga card is faulty

*Edit* did you remove the drivers before flashing the vga bios update?

*Edit* could you attach a copy of the updated bios that sapphirtech sent you, this will help other members of TPU assit you further.

atb

Law-II


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## Gershwin (Aug 3, 2011)

Law-II said:


> Hi
> 
> Raise an RMA with sapphiretech the vga card is faulty
> 
> ...



How can you be sure ?


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## Law-II (Aug 3, 2011)

Gershwin said:


> How can you be sure ?



Hi

Your vga card was advertised at vcore 875 & mem 1250 and sold to you; it dose not do this without freezing yes, it should have headroom to OC on top of the factory clock speeds it dose's not do that. you have been sent a new bios from sapphiretech and it has not resolved the issue; Note if you start to modify the bios your warrenty will be void, RMA is the only way. 

*add for vga card*

"The SAPPHIRE HD 5870 Vapor-X is based on the latest graphics architecture from the ATI division of AMD, the second generation of GPU to be built in its 40nm process. It supports the advanced graphical features of DirectX 11, and delivers spectacular video clarity, speed and visual effects, including over multiple monitors with the new ATI Eyefinity mode.

Sporting a new 150GB/s memory interface supporting fifth generation GDDR5 memory and a new architecture with a total of 1600 stream processors and 80 texture units the SAPPHIRE HD 5870 Vapor-X has twice the computing power of the previous generation. With enhanced clock speeds of 875MHz core and 1250MHz (5GHz effective) the SAPPHIRE HD 5870 Vapor-X model is the fastest card in its class, and SAPPHIRE’s World leading Vapor-X technology not only allows the card to run as much as 15 degrees C cooler and 10dB quieter than the standard model, it provides additional headroom for performance tuning (overclocking)." 

*nb:* please feel free to wait for other members of TPU to suggest other alternatives

*Note:* the Voltage registers for GPU & VTT cannot be altered via the vga bios
Sapphire HD5870 Vapor-X OC Edition
 GPU Device Id: 0x1002 0x6898
113-C00140-003
CYPRESS XT GDDR5 32Mx32 C00801 BIOS UCODEv:1255
(C) 1988-2005, ATI Technologies Inc.
ATOMBIOSBK-ATI VER012.018.000.001.000000
140X0300.V43
Clock State 0
  Core Clk: 850.00 MHz
  Memory Clk: 1200.00 MHz
  Voltage: VID1
  Flags: Boot
Clock State 1
  Core Clk: 875.00 MHz
  Memory Clk: 1250.00 MHz
  Voltage: VID1
  Flags: Optimal Perf
Clock State 2
  Core Clk: 400.00 MHz
  Memory Clk: 900.00 MHz
  Voltage: 1.063 V
  Flags: UVD
Clock State 3
  Core Clk: 875.00 MHz
  Memory Clk: 1250.00 MHz
  Voltage: VID1
  Flags: Optimal Perf
Clock State 4
  Core Clk: 157.00 MHz
  Memory Clk: 300.00 MHz
  Voltage: 0.950 V
  Flags: ACPI

atb 

Law-II


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## Law-II (Aug 3, 2011)

Gershwin said:


> How can you be sure ?



Hi

you could try this

Have you tested another Vga card in your PC 
what where you running before? did you have the same issue?
Have you tested your Vga card in another PC

atb

Law-II


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## eidairaman1 (Aug 3, 2011)

easiest solution would to RMA it.


The other suggestion would to ensure the video card cooler is completely in contact with the ram, n to check the screws attaching the cooler to the card, just a warning though. ESD is leading cause of failure in computer components so ground yourself by touching unpainted metal portion of case or have a ground strap on you before touching any computer parts.

I think Nowadays that since the 5870 Has been Phased out, They are liable to replace it with an equivalent from the new line of cards, Im not sure if the 6870 is faster or what but, you might get one with the vapor-x cooling.

N to top things off, your powersupply could be an issue. The Other thing too is if video drivers from previous board havent been removed thoroughly/completely, n if your motherboard drivers are outdated.


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## Gershwin (Aug 3, 2011)

Law-II said:


> Hi
> 
> you could try this
> 
> ...



I used before the 5770 and there wasnt any problem, but that card has a 128bit memory, the 5870 256bit, thought maybe this could be the problem for my old system.

It make all sense, just was hoping you guys doing this all night long and say something like:" yeah no prob, flash this bios from xxx and enjoy" 

I will test one thing more before i give it back to sapphire, using fast ram in my system, cause (not sure why, my 2cents), i have the feeling my ram is the prob.

The power supply was changed a few days ago, the problem was also on the old PU.

Doing something like taking a screwdriver, is completly the job of sapphire not my 

Furmark is running 20 minutes at 71°C without any probs, the problems only happen in games like FSX, or BFBC2, etc.

Anyway, thx for your help guys. Guess have to ship it back to sapphire


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## cadaveca (Aug 3, 2011)

Sounds like the countless 5870's I went through. I think the final count was 8 or nine. Don't waste your time, and RMA.


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## Law-II (Aug 3, 2011)

Gershwin said:


> I used before the 5770 and there wasnt any problem, but that card has a 128bit memory, the 5870 256bit, thought maybe this could be the problem for my old system.
> 
> 5870 should work out of the box
> 
> ...



you are very welcome; good luck

atb 

Law-II


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## Anusha (Aug 4, 2011)

there is no problem with your system. if it works fine when you underclock, then that means it doesn't work at the rated specs; the specs you paid for. RMA it. whatever Sapphire says, if it doesn't work out of the box, it is not YOUR fault.

p.s. 
i think i have the same VGA as you. is this the blue PCB model or black PCB model? I regret not getting the black PCB model, which is a reference design, and supports overvolting. Blue PCB model sucks. Doesn't overclock well because cannot up the volts. It runs cool and there is so much headroom if it was possible to overvolt.


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## OneMoar (Aug 4, 2011)

odds are there is nothing wrong with the card .. quit spreading misinformation

all you need todo is disable ULPS/UVD and bump the clocks by 5-10mhz
http://www.overclock.net/10417574-post21.html
theres been a long standing issue with some of the early 58xx cards where the gpu would crash because of clock speeds to high for the given voltage


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## Peter1986C (Aug 4, 2011)

OneMoar, you actually say know that the power management must be disabled so the card is still "faulty" IMHO.


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## OneMoar (Aug 4, 2011)

no the card is not faulty just a few early models of the 5xxx cards at the issue on "certain system configurations"
mainly sappire cards


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## OneMoar (Aug 4, 2011)

sapphire set clock stages wrong and never corrected the issue
and its not underclocking is what is correcting the issue anytime you use amd overdrive it nerfs the ULPS/power play settings a bit


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## cadaveca (Aug 4, 2011)

OneMoar said:


> "certain system configurations"



= a fault by the manufacturer. It's the manufacturer's responsibility to test thier devices, and if there are incompatibility issues, to notify you.

Since there is no official list from any hardware manufacturer that states the 5870 cards have compatibility issues, then it safe to assume it should work equally well in all systems.

We, as consumers, must DEMAND higher quality products by not succumbing to shody products and having to hack hardware to get it to work. Plug it in, install OS, drivers, and it should all work, provided you have parts based off of any QVL. QVL's exist for this purpose alone, and I know of no motherboard QVL that states there is any issues with 5870s.

I don't care what the problem is, or what causes it. It's not the users place to deal with such issues.


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## OneMoar (Aug 4, 2011)

vendor != manufacturer
also assume makes a ...


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## cadaveca (Aug 4, 2011)

OneMoar said:


> vendor != manufacturer
> also assume makes a ...



Say what you will. I returned many cards for this exact issue, and the manufacturer never tested any of these cards as "working".

Yes, there are ways to circumvent the issue. And that fine...and good...but...the hardware is faulty, plain and simple, if default clocks do not work in a default system with current drivers.


And I'm reporting your post for flame baiting.


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## OneMoar (Aug 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Say what you will. I returned many cards for this exact issue, and the manufacturer never tested any of these cards as "working".
> 
> Yes, there are ways to circumvent the issue. And that fine...and good...but...the hardware is faulty, plain and simple, if default clocks do not work in a default system with current drivers.
> 
> ...



lol 

just lol 
No I am not flame baiting I am getting tired of idiots pointing fingers and bitching when they don't have a clue
speaking of ... bios is SOFTWARE


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## OneMoar (Aug 4, 2011)

by no means is it acceptable for a card you paided 200+ bucks for to have that kind of flaw but sending it back and getting the same card won't correct the issue the issue is with the drivers and the bios
backon topic here if you try what I said and it still gives you problems then you can attempt to rma it


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## cadaveca (Aug 4, 2011)

OneMoar said:


> the issue is with the drivers and the bios



This is not the case though, as many cards work without issue with the same drivers and BIOS. The OP has already tried updated firmware without success.


And I do have a clue, thank you, that's why I currently review hardware for a living.


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## OneMoar (Aug 4, 2011)

every system is a bit different every vender is a bit different
people jumping off the OMG the card is junk send it back bridge annoy me to no end


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## cadaveca (Aug 4, 2011)

OneMoar said:


> every system is a bit different every vender is a bit different
> people jumping off the OMG the card is junk send it back bridge annoy me to no end



It's fine if it annoys you. The GSOD issue is something everyone should be RMAing for, to ensure it doesn't happen again. 

No user should have to flash VGA BIOS for stock operation. Period.

Cards should be tested before leaving the factory, and as this is a known issue(as are several others with the 5870), RMA is the only option. I do require, personally, that OEMs ensure users are not left with silly issues like this one. As a reviewer, it's my job to report these issues I run into to OEMs sothat they can fix them. 

*I literally went through 9 cards with XFX with this problem. I was never denied an RMA.* In the end, they gave me 6950 2GB, and I haven't had an issue since. I complained and complained about my AMD cards here on the forums for months..until I got working ones.


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## OneMoar (Aug 4, 2011)

they do test the cards
the test them to make sure they post and run a full-load without problems 
THEY don't test to make sure the driver is not gonna crash on x system because the voltage is 0.3v out of spec because x user has x model psu
they don't run the cards in a "windows environment"  do you have any idea how much time and money that would cost.... like gpu's dont cost enough
and when you have a back stock of tens of thousands of cards you can't expect everyone of them to be run though quality control and not have them miss something


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## cadaveca (Aug 4, 2011)

OneMoar said:


> they don't run the cards in a "windows environment"  do you have any idea how much time and money that would cost....



Maybe you missed the part where I said I was a hardware reviewer? OF course I know what it takes. It takes setting up a system once, installing drivers, and then card swaps. No big deal.



> like gpu's dont cost enough



I wouldn't say that. AMD's high-end GPU sells for $350. I'm more than willing ot pay more to ensure I get good parts...you bet....when it was ATI, we paid $500 for high-end GPUs, no problem.




> and when you have a back stock of tens of thousands of cards you can't expect everyone of them to be run though quality control and not have them miss something



Sure I can, and I do. I expect less than 3% failure rate. Most of the industry is around that point, so that's good. So when we get threads like this form users with one of these issues, they should fall within the 3%, and RMA thier cards.

Could this users problem be PSU? You bet. But how come Sapphire support has not explored this option, and the OP is here asking for help? 


I mean, don't get me wrong..I expect OEMs to also tell users to forget about support if they do not buy parts on the QVL.


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## eidairaman1 (Aug 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> = a fault by the manufacturer. It's the manufacturer's responsibility to test thier devices, and if there are incompatibility issues, to notify you.
> 
> Since there is no official list from any hardware manufacturer that states the 5870 cards have compatibility issues, then it safe to assume it should work equally well in all systems.
> 
> ...



I had a Issue with a Asus P4S8X Motherboard and a First Party ATI Radeon AIW 9700 Pro, tried several bios revisions, RMAd the vid card. It Took a Beta Bios, Driver Updates, Disable some video cache mode in the motherboard, Disable Automatic restarts and then something that causes the card to reset itself in the Radeon Drivers just to work with that motherboard.

I swapped to an MSI k7N2 Delta-L and had no problems from the video card at all.


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## Anusha (Aug 4, 2011)

eidairaman1 said:


> I had a Issue with a Asus P4S8X Motherboard and a First Party ATI Radeon AIW 9700 Pro, tried several bios revisions, RMAd the vid card. It Took a Beta Bios, Driver Updates, Disable some video cache mode in the motherboard, Disable Automatic restarts and then something that causes the card to reset itself in the Radeon Drivers just to work with that motherboard.
> 
> I swapped to an MSI k7N2 Delta-L and had no problems from the video card at all.


that's different. 
but in this case, OP says it runs fine when VRAM is underclocked, which means that the VRAM cannot run at the rated specs. it's a problem with the video card. RMA is the only option, unless the OP is willing to run it with the underclocked (i.e. pay more than the card deserves)


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## OneMoar (Aug 4, 2011)

Anusha said:


> that's different.
> but in this case, OP says it runs fine when VRAM is underclocked, which means that the VRAM cannot run at the rated specs. it's a problem with the video card. RMA is the only option, unless the OP is willing to run it with the underclocked (i.e. pay more than the card deserves)



no it means its another 5870 with a power management issue 
ill say it again  90% of the issues with these cards are caused by powerplay/ulps/UVD
changing the clock frequency settings in overdrive disables powerplay and in turn makes the card stable
a rma will most likely NOT help its a bios/driver issue that sapphire/xfx\a few others never fixed properly
edit: the quickest way to check would be to "overclock" the card by 20Mhz on the core and 10 on the memory if the problem gets worse then its the card if it goes away then its that power management bug


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## Anusha (Aug 4, 2011)

OneMoar said:


> no it means its another 5870 with a power management issue
> ill say it again  90% of the issues with these cards are caused by powerplay/ulps/UVD
> changing the clock frequency settings in overdrive disables powerplay and in turn makes the card stable
> a rma will most likely NOT help its a bios/driver issue that sapphire/xfx\a few others never fixed properly
> edit: the quickest way to check would be to "overclock" the card by 20Mhz on the core and 10 on the memory if the problem gets worse then its the card if it goes away then its that power management bug


you say that. we say otherwise. sorry i won't agree with you.


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## OneMoar (Aug 4, 2011)

Anusha said:


> you say that. we say otherwise. sorry i won't agree with you.



it doesn't matter what you or I think the op is the one that needs the problem resolved
whats the sense in rmaing a card until you know: its faulty 
what I suggested takes no longer then 60 seconds todo and would rule out the well known power management issues with the 5xxx cards as the issue


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## Anusha (Aug 4, 2011)

OneMoar said:


> it doesn't matter what you or I think the op is the one that needs the problem resolved
> whats the sense in rmaing a card until you know: its faulty
> what I suggested takes no longer then 60 seconds todo and would rule out the well known power management issues with the 5xxx cards as the issue


if powerplay doesn't work, it is again the fault of the card or the driver or both. because it is a feature; it is how it saves power. you don't just buy the card. you buy the driver as well. it is a full package. if it doesn't work, then it doesn't work! period.


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## OneMoar (Aug 4, 2011)

THEN HE SHOULD JUST BUY A NEW CARD because there is a 90% chance the one they will send him WILL have the same issue
your not reading


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## OneMoar (Aug 4, 2011)

I am done with this thread I am apologetic to the op but it seems people just refuse to listen


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## Anusha (Aug 4, 2011)

OneMoar said:


> THEN HE SHOULD JUST BUY A NEW CARD because there is a 90% chance the one they will send him WILL have the same issue
> your not reading


it is the manufacturer's responsibility to give his money back or offer him another card, don't you think so? HD6950 or something. Else they should specify there is a problem like this, and you should buy it at your own risk. 

I'm just saying people don't have to go through this pain, if the issue is with the stock OVERCLOCK. if he is confident that underclocking fixes the issue, then there is nothing to argue. can't we clearly see that his RAM cannot work properly at 1250MHz, which is the manufacturer specified speed? 
Fine, if is a compatibility with a game, because they can't promise anything about the future. 
Fine, if it is a problem with the PSU, maybe the voltage is not enough? But then it would also not work with 1200MHz RAM speed, because 1200MHz->1250MHz will hardly use any more power. If it was the core clock that needed to drop, then it would possibly be the PSU. Maybe the BIOS they are using have too tight timings. Again, it is not the OP's fault. 

It is NOT fine if you have to disable power play because it is a feature of the card. (because that is something they boast about: the power consumption; something that the user looks at when buying a card) Driver controlled maybe, but it is still a feature. You are talking as if you should disable HT to get your 2600K working. Of course it would be a hardware problem, but does it matter if it is software or hardware? If both are required for it to work, then it is a part of the purchase.

If he must, then he can try it on another PC and see if it still acts the same way. If same, then RMA definitely. If not, then maybe underclock fix was not the real fix. (it could have been a coincidence.)

For example, my old 5770 didn't overclock at all. But I cannot do anything about that because it worked perfectly well at stock settings. Maybe all the other 99.99% users can get at least a 5% overclock. I couldn't get even a 10MHz overclock. weird, but cannot help. if it didn't work at the rated 850MHz core or 1200MHz mem, then that is not my fault. Same with my 5870, same card as the OP's. It is not a good overclocker. 915Mhz on the core, but that's it. It doesn't have any cooling issues. Even in a 35C ambient, it doesn't reach 80C. Again, I cannot help it. 

However, you should know, the RAM on these Vapor-X cards don't overclock AT ALL. you might be able to get a 10MHz overclock out of it, but that's it. I think the RAM they use for these cards are running at their peak specs. Or maybe out of spec; overclocked with a little bit of voltage or loosening the timings. Who knows.


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## cadaveca (Aug 4, 2011)

OneMoar said:


> I am done with this thread I am apologetic to the op but it seems people just refuse to listen



The problem is not with the card.

The problem is that the OP has gone to Sapphire for support, and did not get it.

If there is a compatibility problem, it's up to the OEM to fix it.

Since this card is a Sapphire card, RMA is with the local store where it was purchased...they will test it.

Liek I siad, I had this issue, went through many board, many CPUs, many sets of memory, new PSUs, HDD...all of it...and nothing fixed the problem. It's all here on the forums.

In the end, I went from GSOD cards, to cards that artifacted on the desktop(room temp coldbug). I had a couple of cards that lasted 2 months before showing symptoms.

But none of that matters. What DOES matter is the OP has a problem with a card, and the OEM failed to provide sufficient support.

It's not up to us to provide that support. It's up to the OEM. I don't know why you fail to see this, but that's OK. THAT is why I say RMA...OP attempted what Sapphire told him/her, and the problem is not solved. Clearly a common issue like this, they should have indentified the culprit...the 5870's have been out for 2 years now...

Bad support is bad support. If Sapphire will replace the card, but the OP is left with the same problem wit ha differnt card...Sapphire support failed to identify the problem.


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## Outback Bronze (Aug 5, 2011)

Crikey Cadaveca (8-9) 5870s. Thats B.S.! Ive been through a few cards mate but thats rediculous. Didnt u start think of changing 2 nvidia?


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## cadaveca (Aug 5, 2011)

Outback Bronze said:


> Didnt u start think of changing 2 nvidia?



Nope. I had purchased 3 monitors for Eyefinity, and nVidia's Surroundview, or whatever they call it, needs two VGAs. 1 5870 isn't enough, anyway, but I've been a primarily ATi user since the 9800Pro, and have run Crossfire Since it came out, too. Used to call myself ATi's #1 fanboy. The fact of the matter is that nVidia's cards are too expensive for my liking for the functionality I want.

It's been 6 months since XFX finally sent me the 6950 2GB, which works great, no problems. I've been running it under water for a while now, shaders unlocked, @ 900 Mhz.


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## Outback Bronze (Aug 5, 2011)

lol funny u say that ive been a ati boys since my powercolour 9800pro.

Got extra pipelins with my x800pro to x800xt.

Unlocked my crossfired 6950s to 6970s.

Ive underclocked my 5870 im using now 4 low power. 800/1000,0.925 core idle/0.925 mem idle/1.05 core load/1.05 mem load. Its runs so cool and my system with a q9550 @3.4ghz is a total of 200watts under load and roughly 95 watts idle. Its a bloody nice system!


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## Gershwin (Aug 6, 2011)

*Topic ?*

First of all thanks to those who try to help, with helpfull posts, second to everyone else: "Why using this for discuss how cool or intelligence you are ?" Don´t you think the PM function would be so much cooler that for ? Or what about discuss in your own thread. People out there using google search, finding this thread hoping for help and at the end they opening a new thread and getting answers like: "Use google or the search function ..."
So back to topic, thank you.

If you feel, like to answer me on this, use PM.

Short statement to what i´ve tryed now.
I changed the memory, and using 2x2GB 1066 DDR II now.
My old one are 1.8V, this on 2.2V
Everest told me that the memory is defently faster then my, about ~30%.

At the end, the fault is still remaining.
So my thought about the memory was incorrect. 

I will ship this card back and hope to get a new one in short time.
back to old 5770 for some time.

Best regards
Gershwin


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## eidairaman1 (Aug 7, 2011)

Anusha said:


> that's different.
> but in this case, OP says it runs fine when VRAM is underclocked, which means that the VRAM cannot run at the rated specs. it's a problem with the video card. RMA is the only option, unless the OP is willing to run it with the underclocked (i.e. pay more than the card deserves)



Im making the comment that he should RMA if the card isnt running at the advertised speed, its basically a regular 5870 then


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