# Next Best Upgrade



## Vic-Dog (May 4, 2008)

I have a Biostar TA770A2+
AMD 5000 BE Oc'd to 3125 Mhz
2 Gig GSkill Ram DDR2800
Creative X-Fi Fatal1ty Xtremegamer
EVGA 9800 GTX Oc'd to 813Mhz core/1203 Mhz Mem bus
I just upgraded the vid card from a Visiontek
3850 radeon w/256mb to the 9800 because it was
a deal too good to pass up. I didn't see a huge boost in 
performance. What would my next step be in getting
a noticable boost in performance. Please keep in mind that I 
know nothing about Intel chips so unless it's a no brainer I 
would like to stay AMD. My budget will be a firm $200-$215.
I mostly use it to game (TF2, COD4, FEAR, HL2 Etc..).
My 3dmark06 score was about 8800. 


Thank you,


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## DaedalusHelios (May 4, 2008)

Get another 2 GB's of ram and maybe a better Processor Cooler.


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## OzzmanFloyd120 (May 4, 2008)

New motherboard and another 3850


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## DaedalusHelios (May 4, 2008)

OzzmanFloyd120 said:


> New motherboard and another 3850



he got rid of his 3850 and bought a 9800gtx.


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## nflesher87 (May 4, 2008)

he has a 9800GTX now

I'd say OC the video card more, it should be able to do higher, just ramp up the fan while gaming with rivatuner
other than that really you're only option is mobo and cpu...sorry Daedalus but he's not going to see anything from another 2GB of ram


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## OzzmanFloyd120 (May 4, 2008)

DaedalusHelios said:


> he got rid of his 3850 and bought a 9800gtx.



Oops, misread.


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## Vic-Dog (May 4, 2008)

I have an artic pro cooler 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185125

Would a faster processor help?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103253
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103244


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## DaedalusHelios (May 4, 2008)

nflesher87 said:


> he has a 9800GTX now
> 
> I'd say OC the video card more, it should be able to do higher, just ramp up the fan while gaming with rivatuner
> other than that really you're only option is mobo and cpu...sorry Daedalus but he's not going to see anything from another 2GB of ram



He would if he:
1. was using x64
2. set the prefetch really low so it runs from RAM mainly instead of caching on the hard disk so much.

PS. I used a tutorial for it on my gaming rig that has 8GB's of RAM and it made a huge difference. The same applies to 4GB's of RAM.


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## ShadowFold (May 4, 2008)

I say grab a 9850 and OC it.


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## DaedalusHelios (May 4, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> I say grab a 9850 and OC it.



Good idea.


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## PaulieG (May 4, 2008)

Yup, a 9850 and another 2GB of Ram should do it. Beyond that, it would take a switch to Intel to get more performance.


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## OzzmanFloyd120 (May 4, 2008)

a 9850 alone is outside his budget.


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## Vic-Dog (May 4, 2008)

Would additional ram alone help?
Running Windows XP Home 32 bit


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## OzzmanFloyd120 (May 4, 2008)

It depends on how much background applications you're running, but doubtful with XP.


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## Vic-Dog (May 4, 2008)

Could I move to an Intel M/B & Proc for about $200-$220
with better performance than I have now?


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## spearman914 (May 4, 2008)

Vic-Dog said:


> I have an artic pro cooler
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185125
> 
> Would a faster processor help?
> ...



Don't get phenoms. Most of them suck for overclocking. Some can't even get an extra 25 MHz at stock volts.  I suggest get a new mobo.

If you are an expert at overclocking get this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813136044
If you are just a decent overclocker get this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128074


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## Vic-Dog (May 4, 2008)

I really like the looks of the DFI board. 
I didn't realize the importance of a better M/B
I just assumed that if it used the same proc & memory
and video type the performance would be the same.


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## xu^ (May 4, 2008)

judging from ur 3d mark score id say ur cpu is the main thing holding u back ,8k score witha  9800gtx oc isnt wat id call that good really

either go for the fastest AMD or poss consider a switch to intel.


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## spearman914 (May 5, 2008)

Vic-Dog said:


> I really like the looks of the DFI board.
> I didn't realize the importance of a better M/B
> I just assumed that if it used the same proc & memory
> and video type the performance would be the same.



LOL NO!! Theres AGP/PCI/PCI Express/PCI Express 4x/PCI Express 16x/PCI Express 1.1 16x/PCI Express 2.0 etc.... The main thing you should look into is the Northbridge <--- Depend on that and you will get your best overclock.


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## FatForester (May 5, 2008)

Yea, with Windows XP 4gb of RAM wouldn't be a great investment. I'd say if you were really wanting a performance boost take the plunge and switch to Intel. The e2180 I have, although it's consider "slow" is quick enough for me. You can spend anywhere from 100-150 for a nice P35 chipset board, and then the rest for the processor. An overclocked e2180 is already a big upgrade over your 5000 BE, but if you were really wanting to make it worthwhile you should spend a bit more to get an e8400.


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## spearman914 (May 5, 2008)

FatForester said:


> Yea, with Windows XP 4gb of RAM wouldn't be a great investment. I'd say if you were really wanting a performance boost take the plunge and switch to Intel. The e2180 I have, although it's consider "slow" is quick enough for me. You can spend anywhere from 100-150 for a nice P35 chipset board, and then the rest for the processor. An overclocked e2180 is already a big upgrade over your 5000 BE, but if you were really wanting to make it worthwhile you should spend a bit more to get an e8400.



Me too switching to intel is optional. An E2180 can break 3.7 GHz easy with a Abit IP35-E Motherboard.


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## OzzmanFloyd120 (May 5, 2008)

You might even want to upgrade your PSU, a crap PSU can turn a $46546515846 computer into a $0 computer. (resale value of course!)
It'll make your 3DMark score fall to Zero very quickly and leave you with a damn expensive paperweight on your hands.


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## Exavier (May 5, 2008)

spearman914 said:


> LOL NO!! Theres AGP/PCI/PCI Express/PCI Express 4x/PCI Express 16x/PCI Express 1.1 16x/PCI Express 2.0 etc.... The main thing you should look into is the Northbridge <--- Depend on that and you will get your best overclock.



you forgot PCI-X


Vic, get a 2140/60/80, they're cheap, clock well, and the only thing limiting them is their L2 cache...which doesn't actually affect matters greatly overall.

because this is cheap, it'll enable you to get a nice Artic Freezer 7 also for cheap, and then splash the rest on a new mobo, and you're set.


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## spearman914 (May 5, 2008)

Exavier said:


> you forgot PCI-X
> 
> 
> Vic, get a 2140/60/80, they're cheap, clock well, and the only thing limiting them is their L2 cache...which doesn't actually affect matters greatly overall.
> ...



um is etcetera a word? I think I mentioned that...


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## PaulieG (May 5, 2008)

Vic-Dog said:


> Could I move to an Intel M/B & Proc for about $200-$220
> with better performance than I have now?



No, but if you sold what you had now, you would be looking at $350ish to work with. You can get a nice p35 board and an e8400 or Q6600 for that.


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## Vic-Dog (May 5, 2008)

Would a high quality Power supply increase performance
over a generic power supply that seems to be powering all 
of my components properly. 
Will more stable voltages=better performance?


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## PaulieG (May 5, 2008)

Vic-Dog said:


> Would a high quality Power supply increase performance
> over a generic power supply that seems to be powering all
> of my components properly.
> Will more stable voltages=better performance?



Yes, without a doubt. Stable voltages have a huge impact on a system. Your ability to overclock your cpu requires a quality psu. Also, you risk the health of your entire system using a cheap psu. A psu gone bad can take your entire system with it. The power supply, while not being a "bling" component, it is the MOST important component in your system. LAST place you want to go cheap.


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## Vic-Dog (May 5, 2008)

My system seems pretty stable. Doesn't crash, No random restarts
How can I tell if the voltages are stable & sufficient for good operation.


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## spearman914 (May 5, 2008)

Paulieg said:


> No, but if you sold what you had now, you would be looking at $350ish to work with. You can get a nice p35 board and an e8400 or Q6600 for that.



Vic-Dog you getting dual GFX? If you are don't get P35 boards since it only has one PCIe 16X (unless you can add PCIe slots to the board). Go with X38 boards instead.


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## OzzmanFloyd120 (May 5, 2008)

Vic-Dog said:


> My system seems pretty stable. Doesn't crash, No random restarts
> How can I tell if the voltages are stable & sufficient for good operation.



Go to the downloads section of TPU and download a progam called "Everest" then under the Computer tab select "Sensors" at the bottom all of your voltages will be listed. If they jump around alot you'll want a new PSU.


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## spearman914 (May 5, 2008)

Vic-Dog said:


> My system seems pretty stable. Doesn't crash, No random restarts
> How can I tell if the voltages are stable & sufficient for good operation.



Use a stress program called: 
Prime 95 <--- For Quad Core
Orthos <--- For Dual Core
Memtest86 <--- For memory test

Hope you can find them online.


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## Vic-Dog (May 5, 2008)

This is what Everest shows

Hardware Monitoring :	ITE IT8718F
Voltage CPU :	1.36 V
+3.3V Voltage :	1.10 V
+5V Voltage :	5.02 V
+12V Voltage :	12.89 V
DIMM :	1.17 V
NB :	1.92 V
VTT :	1.10 V
VBAT :	3.36 V
Processor Fan :	2265 rpm
Chassis Fan :	10 rpm
Power/Aux Fan :	10 rpm
Processor Temperature :	32 °C
Processor Temperature (Core 1) :	6.2 °C
Processor Temperature (Core 2) :	6 °C
Mainboard Temperature :	24 °C
Power/Aux Temperature :	20 °C
ACPI Thermal Zone :	20 °C
 :	
Video Monitoring :	nVidia Driver
GPU Temperature :	47 °C
GPU Fan :	100%
 :	
Hard Disk Monitoring :	S.M.A.R.T
Hard Disk Temperature WDC WD2500KS-00MJB0 :	33 °C


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## Vic-Dog (May 5, 2008)

Ran Orthos for 3 minutes

Type: Blend - stress CPU and RAM Min: 8 Max: 4096 InPlace: No Mem: 1791 Time: 15
CPU: 3120MHz FSB: 240MHz [240MHz x 13.0 est.]
CPU: 3120MHz FSB: 240MHz [240MHz x 13.0 est.]
5/4/2008 8:15 PM 
Launching 2 threads...
2:Using CPU #1
1:Using CPU #0
2:Beginning a continuous self-test to check your computer.
1:Beginning a continuous self-test to check your computer.
2ress Stop to end this test.
1ress Stop to end this test.
2:Test 1, 4000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M19922945 using 1024K FFT length.
1:Test 1, 4000 Lucas-Lehmer iterations of M19922945 using 1024K FFT length.
2:Torture Test ran 3 minutes 1 seconds - 0 errors, 0 warnings.
2:Execution halted.

1:Torture Test ran 3 minutes 1 seconds - 0 errors, 0 warnings.
1:Execution halted.


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## OzzmanFloyd120 (May 5, 2008)

You're going to want to let it run longer than three minutes, go for about an hour.


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## Vic-Dog (May 5, 2008)

Ok, I'll start it again.
Can I use the system while it's running?


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## OzzmanFloyd120 (May 5, 2008)

Yeah, you should be fine, again though, I would keep an eye on the volts in everest to see where they're at while the test is going on. If you plan on leaving your computer running 24/7 I would run Orthos for like a day.


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## Vic-Dog (May 5, 2008)

I'll run it over night tonight.
How did the voltages look that I listed.
One surprised me.
+3.3V Voltage : 1.10 V


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## PaulieG (May 5, 2008)

Those everest readings are not always correct. I'm sure your psu is fine for now. Just remember, you are at high risk for system damage if your psu starts to die, and a budget generic psu is going to have a higher failure rate than using a quality psu. I would make this priority 1 for your next upgrade. TRUST ME on this!


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## pabloc74 (May 5, 2008)

new mobo and cpu

9800? mmmmmmmm

i prefeer a 8800gts 512mb


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## Vic-Dog (May 6, 2008)

Like I said in my original post I got a deal "too good to refuse"
or I probably would not have switched out from my ATI 3850.
Ran Orthos overnight, Same thing 0 errors, 0 warnings.


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## spearman914 (May 6, 2008)

Vic-Dog said:


> Like I said in my original post I got a deal "too good to refuse"
> or I probably would not have switched out from my ATI 3850.
> Ran Orthos overnight, Same thing 0 errors, 0 warnings.



Well thats a good sign. 0 Errors, 0 Warnings.


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## AKA_Dawg (May 11, 2008)

Originally Posted by Exavier  
you forgot PCI-X


"Vic, get a 2140/60/80, they're cheap, clock well, and the only thing limiting them is their L2 cache...which doesn't actually affect matters greatly overall.

because this is cheap, it'll enable you to get a nice Artic Freezer 7 also for cheap, and then splash the rest on a new mobo, and you're set"


I believe that large L2 cache does affect real world, applications. It doesn't really affect 
3dmark and other synthetic benchmarks.


http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cache-size-matter,1709-2.html


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