# What was your AM4 experience?



## A Computer Guy (Aug 11, 2022)

With AM5 around the corner let's take a look back at AM4 and review what went right, what went wrong, and what could be improved going forward into AM5.


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## GerKNG (Aug 11, 2022)

Overall disappointed with tons of issues that appeared with every generation over and over again.


Zen +:
2700X a bit degraded after two years at 1.42V sold to a friend (still in use)

Zen 2:
3600 on a b450 gaming plus max (CPU PCIe lanes for the NVMe Drive were bad because every SSD in that slot on all of my motherboards corrupted within a Minute, replacement worked on all boards)
3700X and 3800X no issues.

Zen 3:
first launch 5800X with a B550 Strix F non stop idle crashes.
second 5800X was sold.
first 5900X was unstable in P95 (Stock)
second 5900X works fine.
5950X on a B550 Strix F (another one) did not run anything but is completely fine on my first and second B550 Tomahawk.
5800X3D (current CPU) runs -25 all Core (Core Cycler heavy AVX2 stable) and replaced my 12700K for my gaming rig.

so far Intel was (at least until Alder Lake on Launch) a smoother ride.
i'll pretty sure switch to AM5 but i rather wait a year until they don't have to release 8 AGESA Updates per week.


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## freeagent (Aug 11, 2022)

My experience has been smooth. Better for me than 939 was. As good as my previous intel setups. 5600X and 5900X on Strix F with B-Die was stable as a table. So good I wasted a bunch of cash on the Strix XE lol.


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## tussinman (Aug 11, 2022)

Overall solid (especially compared to the prior 2 sockets) but in retrospect a little over-rated.

Zen 1 (1000 and 2000) had weak IPC and lots of memory issues

Zen 2 was alot better but still had some memory issues and it wasn't any faster in gaming then the 2 year old intels at the time

Zen 3 was amazing but over-shadowed by there not being a sub $300 option until 18 months into it's cycle


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## neatfeatguy (Aug 11, 2022)

Got my 5900x, installed everything and was getting slapped around with WHEA errors. Thankfully, just a couple days after I had my new system and was getting these stupid errors (everything I tried didn't fix it, I was on the verge of RMAing if I couldn't get it solved), an updated AGESA was pushed out by ASUS.  I was able to update the BIOS that had AGESA 1.2.0.0.  All the WHEA errors stopped with the update.

I haven't had a single BSOD since.

The start was a bit bumpy, I never had any issue with AMD or Intel CPUs prior to Zen (I never had Zen 1 or Zen 2) so it was kind of frustrating when I started up my new build using Zen 3 and I was running into this issue of crashes what WHEA errors.


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## tabascosauz (Aug 11, 2022)

Mixed bag:

3700X: pre-launch (June 2019) production, absolute disaster - day 1 continuous problems with AGESA until 1004, bad and deteriorating IF clocking only to 1800MHz and then later requiring Cstates off to avoid constant Bus/Interconnect, bad cores OC, then deteriorating cores requiring global Cstates off to avoid Cache Hierarchy
4650G: early mid-2020 production, terrible AGESA experience for about a year, degraded easily within a week of all-core, retired to an easy life after seeing IF and iGPU start to decay under OC
5900X: early 2021 production - basically no PBO headroom no core can clock past stock 4950MHz limit, 15°C+ core deltas, fTPM stutter and audio pop until AGESA fixed, but for the first time it works fine as daily, 1900 IF, "if it ain't broke don't fix it" AGESA
5600G: mid 2021 early production, bad SP sample, iGPU and IF clocking worse than 4650G
5700G: mid 2021 early production, AGESA and iGPU woes at AGESA 1201(?), 2300MHz iGPU and 2166MHz IF , unfortunately died after board died
5700G: 2022 production, no complaints at 2300/2166, best core deltas
Others around me bought late production Ryzen 3000 and 5000 and have had much fewer issues.

AM5 looking good, but I won't be their guinea pig for launch production chips anymore.

If AMD can fix just two things on AM5 -  launch day silicon quality and QA, and AGESA the bug-manufacturing demon - many more happy campers will there be, and getting rid of the few remaining reasons to go intel.

In 9th and 10th gen Intel I was considering jumping ship, but after 12th gen I'm not so sure they have a clear upper hand in stability anymore (esp. with 14th gen coming up, hopefully not their Ryzen 3000 moment).


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## Dristun (Aug 11, 2022)

2400G: Lots of black screens and crashing, did not enjoy.
3600X: Fine!

Back on Intel for now, will follow the developments with interest while the time for an all-new build comes in a year or two. Curious if Thunderbolt actually works ok on AM5 now, because on AM4 it was a mess.


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## Dr. Dro (Aug 11, 2022)

My feelings overall correspond to "meh" but I'm voting "bad" because while things are more or less fine now, it was after having to replace my perfectly good ROG Crosshair X370 motherboard because AMD *OPENLY LIED* about it being impossible to update AGESA on 300 series chipsets to provide support for newer processors, going as far as having their PR guy run a false cover-up story with a made up lie that motherboard boot ROMs were not large enough. Just this week the Crosshair 6 series received AGESA 1.2.0.7 support with no features lost(!), just to prove that one. That's one breach of trust I personally won't forget.

Not only that, I've run into EVERY major problem with AGESA - from broken memory training to the notorious USB drop problem, the TPM stutter - I've been affected by them all. They did fix the most egregious issues such as the ones I've listed, yes, but the point is that they shouldn't be happening at all, especially not on a platform that has been released to the public since 2017. Zen 2 and Zen 3 are great processors. However, the AM4 platform was buggy for most of its service life, and that is something I cannot overlook given none of my previous Intel systems have ever had such problems.


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## ir_cow (Aug 11, 2022)

Pretty much didn't care for it until Zen2 and X570 came out. Before that I like AMD because it forced Intel to start developing something new.

But the previous socket was awful. Anyone remember FX 8350? I bought one thinking it was a good compromise. Nope couldn't even keep up with Intel's i5 and ran at 90c. I loved my XP and X2, but after that AMD became a joke for a number of years. Even first gen Ryzen was easy to write off.


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## Fouquin (Aug 11, 2022)

Got the privilege of working with Ryzen before it launched and saw a lot of the main issues worked out before it hit the street. My personal system was our pre-launch 1600X sample combined with the Biostar X370GTN and after AGESA 1.0.0.6 (the original from 2017) fixing DRAM compatibility on Zen 1, it was smooth for two full years. Upgraded to the 3600X on launch day, ran that with no issues until getting the current 5600X in February 2021. Still running with no issues. I swapped to an ASRock X470 when I got the 5600X since I didn't feel like doing the BIOS hacks to the Biostar to get Zen 3 support at the time, but since X370/B350 officially became supported I went back to the Biostar just to see how it is, and it works perfectly.

My biggest gripes were early on with the DDR4 issues but again those got worked out pretty early on. The review sample 1600X and our 1700X are still both running every day in two systems I built for family members, one serves in a recording studio and the other is a development machine.



ir_cow said:


> But the previous socket was awful. Anyone remember FX 8350? I bought one thinking it was a good compromise. Nope couldn't even keep up with Intel's i5 and ran at 90c.



You've made that claim in other threads and everyone who's daily driven FX has rightfully been skeptical. 90C is not realistic for FX, especially not the 8350, when they have a tCase of under 70C. Even the stock box cooler keeps them under 90C. Sorry your experience sucked, but there's no need to exaggerate to make your point. Just say the chips are slow, we all agree there.  I ran my FX 8350 at 5.2GHz on a Cooler Master Hyper 212, 1.55v, and it still wasn't over 85C. Barely as fast as the i7-3770 in games though even at that speed.


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## Sithaer (Aug 11, 2022)

I only had a 1600X for almost 4 years, never upgraded further so my experience is a bit lacking but with that CPU I did not have many issues except my 3200 Mhz G.Skill Ripjaws refused to run stable at 3200 so I had to settle with 3000.
IPC was a bit lackluster/side grade coming from a Haswell i 3 but in overall it did its job, its just that I often play crappy optimized single thread/IPC heavy games so yeh thats why I'm on Alder lake now.

In overall I did not regret going for that 1600x, if I knew that in time we will have a non X 5600 and my specific B350 mobo would get support for it most likely I would still be on that platform but whats done is done I'm back to Intel for now.


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## Count von Schwalbe (Aug 11, 2022)

I was a bit of a late comer, but I had only a single issue that was my fault with my Zen 2 system. Zen 3 system still in the works.


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## Psychoholic (Aug 11, 2022)

Its not my main rig but my old 3900x/X570 never gave me any trouble and is now rock solid stable in my VMware server.


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## ir_cow (Aug 11, 2022)

Fouquin said:


> You've made that claim in other threads and everyone who's daily driven FX has rightfully been skeptical. 90C is not realistic for FX, especially not the 8350, when they have a tCase of under 70C. Even the stock box cooler keeps them under 90C. Sorry your experience sucked, but there's no need to exaggerate to make your point. Just say the chips are slow, we all agree there.  I ran my FX 8350 at 5.2GHz on a Cooler Master Hyper 212, 1.55v, and it still wasn't over 85C. Barely as fast as the i7-3770 in games though even at that speed.


I have here? I could have, but its not a "claim". For me its a fact lol. Those CPUs couldn't keep up in gaming or rendering. All you need to do for a refresher is look at old reviews. I even RMA the first CPU, the replacement was about the same so I sold the system and went back to Intel.


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## Fouquin (Aug 11, 2022)

ir_cow said:


> I have here? I could have, but its not a "claim". For me its a fact lol. Those CPUs couldn't keep up in gaming or rendering. All you need to do for a refresher is look at old reviews. I even RMA the first CPU, the replacement was about the same so I sold the system and went back to Intel.



I don't need to read old reviews, I still own the physical hardware and can validate whenever I please. I can assure you that without creating a thermally restrictive environment or tampering with the cooler in some way, I cannot and have never been able to produce 90C operating temps on a stock FX 8350.

As for rendering I actually have an interesting stat there, here's Blender's BMW render time on 2.83.12 LTS using a few different chips:




Fair enough the 990X beats it, but the 990X was still close to it's original $1000 MSRP. The glory days of cheap X58 were not remotely on the horizon yet.


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## Batou1986 (Aug 11, 2022)

2600X on Asus X470 prime pro had zero issues besides my screwup on ram upgraded to 5900X had the fTPM stuttering on win11 which was fixed.
The only slight issue I had was sometimes on boot the 2600X would need to retrain my non QVL memory until I manually entered all the XMP timings my fault for not buying the right ram no issues with my new 32gb QVL kit.
Overall I would say it was a good platform if you where on 2xxx series chips and 4xx boards with QVL memory the 1xxx series and 3xx boards where flaky and picky about memory which seems to be common between new Intel and new AMD launches so I always wait for the refresh.


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## ir_cow (Aug 11, 2022)

Fouquin said:


> I don't need to read old reviews, I still own the physical hardware and can validate whenever I please. I can assure you that without creating a thermally restrictive environment or tampering with the cooler in some way, I cannot and have never been able to produce 90C operating temps on a stock FX 8350.


Hmm. Well I don't have the CPU anymore and from i'm reading the Tjmax was 61c. All I really remember was the thermal throttling. So it looks like 90c isn't possible and I'm wrong about that. I do remember the i7 4770K just wiping the floor with it in gaming and rendering though. It was cheaper too.


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## thegnome (Aug 11, 2022)

Pretty smooth, my zen+ chip did fine, although it wasn't the fastest in certain games, and my current 5600x is doing great, besides my own problems (using bad/outdated bios and not testing undervolting right). Could only wish for some extra cores for background applications, so I don't get as much FPS loss as I would have now.


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## P4-630 (Aug 11, 2022)

Did not even try it...Past few years reading forums and AMD CPU's and memory issues what not...  I went straight with intel again this year.. It just works!


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## trparky (Aug 11, 2022)

This is with my father's system. His initial foray into using AMD was with a Gigabyte motherboard and a Ryzen 5 2600X. Getting memory to work properly at the rated speed was a pain in the ass, I ended up having to down-clock the memory to get system stability. I've dropped a Ryzen 5 5600X into the same motherboard and right from the very beginning RAM worked with no issues, no stability issues at all.

I want to build a new Ryzen system when Ryzen 7000 comes out, but I may wait a month until all the bugs are fixed. I hope AMD gets it right straight out of the gate.


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## sLowEnd (Aug 11, 2022)

I've had no issues with my R5 3600 system. I'm still on Win10 though, so I can't really speak for any Win11 TPM stutter or anything of that sort.


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## xtreemchaos (Aug 11, 2022)

2700x then 3900x all run fine both still in use havnt overclock 3900x as theres no point it dos a good job at stock.


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## outpt (Aug 11, 2022)

I’ve had a 2600,3600,3700x and they were good. The 5800x was a dog. It wouldn’t oc at all and be stable. It wouldn’t run pbo and co at the same time without it being a blue screen fest. My 5950x is just the opposite. Now, rdna1 was just a soup sandwich.


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## ShrimpBrime (Aug 11, 2022)

> Meh, just a normal overhyped computing experience.


Yep. Gen 1, Gen 2 and Gen 3. 

Ryzen 5000 finally with some decent Epeen.

Already spending great deals of money just onn the 1st 2 Generations and to see my 8700K still clobber the 3rd generation, Me and the wallet just didn't have it in us to make more AMD purchases. 

Ryzen Infinity Fabric beyond 4000mhz was overhyped. Or rather a straight lie. 
If these chips didn't loose 20% by running 1:2 mclk : Fclk, maybe it would had been more enticing for me personally. 

Ah well, off to 12th Gen Intel and DDR5. 

Hopefully AMD can fully fill promises this time around. AM5 6000mhz ddr5 clock speeds, I have my doubts honestly.


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## trparky (Aug 11, 2022)

ShrimpBrime -retired said:


> Ah well, off to 12th Gen Intel and DDR5.


I just can't do it. I really want AMD to win and to completely smash Intel. Why? To finally make the Intel fanboys shut up and stop all their gloating.


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## outpt (Aug 11, 2022)

For some reason, who knows, the platform for me was fine. I did manage it ,seems, to not have many of the problems others are having/had.


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## ShrimpBrime (Aug 11, 2022)

trparky said:


> I just can't do it. I really want AMD to win and to completely smash Intel. Why? To finally make the Intel fanboys shut up and stop all their gloating.


I am by far not an Intel Fan boy. I struggled with AMD all the way through Phenom (Agena) Phenom II and FX processors for daily and competitive overclocking. Bought into 1st and 2nd Gen Ryzen before the Intel rig and 8700K which I used this for 3D benching and then daily use.

But AMD really brought a lot of performance to the table on Ryzen 5000 series. They did have the upper hand for a bit!


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## trparky (Aug 11, 2022)

ShrimpBrime -retired said:


> But AMD really brought a lot of performance to the table on Ryzen 5000 series. They did have the upper hand for a bit!


Oh yeah. If you saw my original post in this thread, I upgraded my father's system with a 5600X by replacing the original 2600X with the same motherboard and he instantly saw a 40% performance boost. That's nothing to sneeze at!


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## ShrimpBrime (Aug 11, 2022)

trparky said:


> Oh yeah. If you saw my original post in this thread, I upgraded my father's system with a 5600X by replacing the original 2600X with the same motherboard and he instantly saw a 40% performance boost. That's nothing to sneeze at!


Exactly!

FreeAgent and I did a little comparison. His water cooled 5900X vs the 8700K (at 6ghz+) and PiMod. He beated my 6ghz 8700K man!!!


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## trparky (Aug 11, 2022)

Yep. He likes to play Civilization and he commented to me that late into the game, the 2600X was a dog. Most turns would take over a minute to complete. The 5600X did the same late-game turns in a fraction of the time.


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## tussinman (Aug 11, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> *AM5 looking good, but I won't be their guinea pig for launch production chips anymore.*
> 
> If AMD can fix just two things on AM5 -  launch day silicon quality and QA, and AGESA the bug-manufacturing demon - many more happy campers will there be, and getting rid of the few remaining reasons to go intel.


That's exactly the issue i'm having. I'm doing a full system rebuild end of September so logically AM5 would make sense but given there previous track record i'm not sure if I want to be a guinea pig. The other alternative would be Alderlake (most motherboards have had 3 or 4 bios updates since launch) with a 12400 and then get a discounted 13th gen chip when 14th gen comes out


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## trparky (Aug 11, 2022)

tussinman said:


> That's exactly the issue i'm having. I'm doing a full system rebuild end of September so logically AM5 would make sense but given there previous track record i'm not sure if I want to be a guinea pig. The other alternative would be Alderlake (most motherboards have had 3 or 4 bios updates since launch) with a 12400 and then get a discounted 13th gen chip when 14th gen comes out


I'm really debating that too. Should I just dive right on in with AM5 or go with an Intel Core i7-12700K?








						Intel Core i7-12700K, ASUS Z690-A ROG Strix Gaming WiFi DDR4, CPU / Motherboard Combo - Micro Center
					

Get it now! Find over 30,000 products at your local Micro Center, including the Intel Core i7-12700K, ASUS Z690-A ROG Strix Gaming WiFi DDR4, CPU / Motherboard Combo




					www.microcenter.com
				



Very tempting.


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## ShrimpBrime (Aug 11, 2022)

tussinman said:


> That's exactly the issue i'm having. I'm doing a full system rebuild end of September so logically AM5 would make sense but given there previous track record i'm not sure if I want to be a guinea pig. The other alternative would be Alderlake (most motherboards have had 3 or 4 bios updates since launch) with a 12400 and then get a discounted 13th gen chip when 14th gen comes out


I'm running a 12400F and B660-G. The board I picked up for 235$ and supports BCLK and DDR5. All I can say is it's bloody fast, but not at stock. The memory performance is kinda bad until you get up and above 5800mhz, then you really see some uplift. But gen 1 DDR5 you know.... has it's quirks yet. That's why I don't anticipate AMD claiming 6000mhz for average builds being the real deal Holyfield if you know what I mean. Cause it's not quite that easy on Intel unless you wanna fork out the big bucks for the top boards and memory kits.


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## freeagent (Aug 11, 2022)

ShrimpBrime -retired said:


> His water cooled 5900X


You mean air cooled


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## ShrimpBrime (Aug 11, 2022)

freeagent said:


> You mean air cooled


I thought you had it under a loop? (at the time we compared)


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Aug 11, 2022)

The only problems I faced were initially poor memory support and later unstable overclocks caused by. Me.


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## LifeOnMars (Aug 11, 2022)

B450 Cheap Assrock board 2 years ago /16Gb 3200 Gskill+ 3600@4.2 - Smooth as silk at 1440p with a 5700xt

The same Cheap Assrock board/Added 16Gb, so now 32Gb 3200 Gskill+ 5700X@Eco Mode - Smooth as silk at 4K with a 3080 12Gb

I've been very happy


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## freeagent (Aug 11, 2022)

ShrimpBrime -retired said:


> I thought you had it under a loop? (at the time we compared)


No sir, the closest I got to watercooling was with my H100 on x5690 

It was good for a year.. and then down hill from there 

Edit:

It is why I smack talk CLC systems all the time


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## ShrimpBrime (Aug 11, 2022)

freeagent said:


> No sir, the closest I got to watercooling was with my H100 on x5690
> 
> It was good for a year.. and then down hill from there


Still have that screen shot? We can show everyone 5000 chips POAWAR!!!!!!

Ahem, also let me correct myself 6ghz+ was actually at 6.2ghz and core/thread reduction to increase epeen!!!

You know I won a comp at OverclockersForums with this screen shot too!


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## tabascosauz (Aug 11, 2022)

trparky said:


> I just can't do it. I really want AMD to win and to completely smash Intel. Why? To finally make the Intel fanboys shut up and stop all their gloating.



Part of me wants AMD to fall short on Ryzen 7000. We've all seen what a complacent AMD looks like (Ryzen 5000 pricing 2020, RDNA2 supply 2020-2021). But an AMD up against the ropes also sends AGESA straight to the dark ages which is far worse, so i'll just hope for some close and healthy competition this generation.

I've not seen any real masses of Intel fanboys since the 9900K. Intel didn't give them much ammunition after  But whenever something new comes up (eg. fTPM stutter) and we want AMD to fix asap, first to chime in are always the Ryzen-can-do-no-wrong gang. "I've never had any stutter on my Ryzen" "well Intel has x problem and it's worse". The fTPM issue was lucky, in that it simply got too big to ignore with evidence too damning to explain otherwise.

The hardware is [now] solid. But 3 years of offloading QA onto the customer - getting sick of it.



tussinman said:


> That's exactly the issue i'm having. I'm doing a full system rebuild end of September so logically AM5 would make sense but given there previous track record i'm not sure if I want to be a guinea pig. The other alternative would be Alderlake (most motherboards have had 3 or 4 bios updates since launch) with a 12400 and then get a discounted 13th gen chip when 14th gen comes out



I'm thinking the same, wanting to get on the trailing edge instead of the leading edge of releases, for a change. Tired of paying more for less. 11th gen let me down last time, though, from the rumors I'm not blown away by 13th gen. If not, AM5 is chock full of life - waiting for 8000 is easy.

I should revise my statement - 6 months into production seems to be the golden ticket for AMD. Yields and AGESA have matured to a point where CPU is exactly as advertised, and might even get in on some price drops too.

But there's no reason why we should consider that "acceptable". 6 months is halfway to the next release...


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## eidairaman1 (Aug 11, 2022)

Worked right out of the box


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## A Computer Guy (Aug 11, 2022)

ShrimpBrime -retired said:


> If these chips didn't loose 20% by running 1:2 mclk : Fclk, maybe it would had been more enticing for me personally.


I thought I saw an older buildzoid video that suggested if you could get the difference between mclk and fclk > 166MHz you could overcome the latency penalty.


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## trparky (Aug 11, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> I've not seen any real masses of Intel fanboys since the 9900K.


Then you haven't seen...
Potential Ryzen 7000-series CPU Specs and Pricing Leak, Ryzen 9 7950X Expected to hit 5.7 GHz | TechPowerUp Forums
Read the last few pages if you need an example of outright Intel fanboism.


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## ShrimpBrime (Aug 11, 2022)

A Computer Guy said:


> I thought I saw an older buildzoid video that suggested if you could get the difference between mclk and fclk > 166MHz you could overcome the latency penalty.


Yes that is 100% true and Buildzoid knows his shit. In fact I recently referenced a ddr5 OC video of his for my own uses. 

Say you uncouple at 4000mhz, at 4400mhz you're making up that performance with a little extra. This is because bandwidth is king.

______

For my daily use, I try to find the performance through efficiency. 

For example, using PiMod in the screen shot above is a raw mhz push. You can tell by the numbers it's not really efficient. If it took nearly or exactly the same time to complete each loop, then you know the efficiency is good and should stick with that overclock. Because it will be consistent performance.


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## freeagent (Aug 11, 2022)

ShrimpBrime -retired said:


> Still have that screen shot? We can show everyone 5000 chips POAWAR!!!!!!
> 
> Ahem, also let me correct myself 6ghz+ was actually at 6.2ghz and core/thread reduction to increase epeen!!!
> 
> ...


Hopefully this will do! I am on my phone atm..









						freeagent`s SuperPi - 1M score: 6sec 820ms with a Ryzen 9 5900X
					

The Ryzen 9 5900X @ 5150.3MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the SuperPi - 1M benchmark. freeagentranks #1510 worldwide and #10 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




					hwbot.org


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## ShrimpBrime (Aug 11, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Hopefully this will do! I am on my phone atm..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know the screen shot is at LTT for sure. Like 98% percent sure that's where you bitch slapped me lol.


edit edit edit.

Maybe it was a 3D benchmark? We both running the GTX 980's maybe? 
Can't remember, obviously it was a while ago now. And the Pipe. That doesn't always help either XD


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## freeagent (Aug 11, 2022)

ShrimpBrime -retired said:


> I know the screen shot is at LTT for sure. Like 98% percent sure that's where you bitch slapped me lol.
> 
> 
> edit edit edit.
> ...





Edit:

Ohh I think it was 3DMark.. Firestrike maybe?


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## A Computer Guy (Aug 12, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Part of me wants AMD to fall short on Ryzen 7000. We've all seen what a complacent AMD looks like (Ryzen 5000 pricing 2020, RDNA2 supply 2020-2021). But an AMD up against the ropes also sends AGESA straight to the dark ages which is far worse, so i'll just hope for some close and healthy competition this generation.
> 
> I've not seen any real masses of Intel fanboys since the 9900K. Intel didn't give them much ammunition after  But whenever something new comes up (eg. fTPM stutter) and we want AMD to fix asap, first to chime in are always the Ryzen-can-do-no-wrong gang. "I've never had any stutter on my Ryzen" "well Intel has x problem and it's worse". The fTPM issue was lucky, in that it simply got too big to ignore with evidence too damning to explain otherwise.



LOL, I never did *notice *any stutter on my Ryzen and Windows 10 (ver1809 to current).  (2600, 3800x, 3950x, and 5950x on x470  or 2200g, and 2700 on b450) 
I didn't realize it until after watching this video  







  that I likely did have the stuttering problem with my 3800x on b550 while gaming.  
At the time I thought the problem was my HDMI cable which I replaced and the problem seemed to go away.  Now I'm curious to test the new UEFI/BIOS with my old HDMI cable to see what happens.

So far my biggest issues (on my x470 daily) were
- Memory compatibility / overclocking (worked around with manual timings with each AGESA release)
- USB reset glitch for a short time (introduced and resolved with BIOS/UEFI update and/or driver update)
- Blowing out my board with PBO (extreme fatality)
- A handful of minor annoyances that didn't really impact me being able to work



tabascosauz said:


> The hardware is [now] solid. But 3 years of offloading QA onto the customer - getting sick of it.


Not a fan of that either however now new tech is turning around from both AMD and Intel not sure how to avoid it completely other than the traditionally wait a few months for them to work the bugs out.  I'm pretty happy with what I have now and will probably skip the 7000 series unless someone in the family needs an upgrade.


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## stinger608 (Aug 12, 2022)

Only problem I (had) was terrible lag trying to run the stupid Windows 11 LOL. 

Other than that, it's been very solid! And quick!


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## thegnome (Aug 12, 2022)

trparky said:


> Yep. He likes to play Civilization and he commented to me that late into the game, the 2600X was a dog. Most turns would take over a minute to complete. The 5600X did the same late-game turns in a fraction of the time.


Can confirm, but to a much lesser degree for me. Likely because the Civ I play is the 5th one, which is already over 10 years old.


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## A Computer Guy (Aug 12, 2022)

LifeOnMars said:


> B450 Cheap Assrock board 2 years ago /16Gb 3200 Gskill+ 3600@4.2 - Smooth as silk at 1440p with a 5700xt
> 
> The same Cheap Assrock board/Added 16Gb, so now 32Gb 3200 Gskill+ 5700X@Eco Mode - Smooth as silk at 4K with a 3080 12Gb
> 
> I've been very happy


I'm curious why Eco mode?  Did you have VRM heat issues with 5700x on that board?  I have a similar board (B450M Pro4) as well and was contemplating moving my 3800x to it.


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Aug 12, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Edit:
> 
> Ohh I think it was 3DMark.. Firestrike maybe?


Not sure. I know I counter attacked with Aquamark though


----------



## A Computer Guy (Aug 12, 2022)

freeagent said:


> No sir, the closest I got to watercooling was with my H100 on x5690
> 
> It was good for a year.. and then down hill from there
> 
> ...


I still have my H100i.  If the pump is still good can you refill them with EK- Cryrofuel or something similar?


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 12, 2022)

A Computer Guy said:


> LOL, I never did *notice *any stutter on my Ryzen and Windows 10 (ver1809 to current).  (2600, 3800x, 3950x, and 5950x on x470  or 2200g, and 2700 on b450)
> I didn't realize it until after watching this video
> 
> 
> ...



Your old HDMI cable shouldn't have anything to do with it. The TPM issue equally affects audio/input/video at the same time when it manifests, a bit misleading it's called stutter since it's more like extreme lag. If you don't require TPM functions for work/Bitlocker, it's also very easy to fix, just turn off fTPM and sign in again..........but like I said, it's more a matter of attitude, no one needs to hear the incessant "AMD can do no wrong" when collectively trying to figure a bug like this out.

To be fair to AMD, even on 12th gen Intel boost is dumb as a rock (not an insult, just pointing out that it hasn't changed much since Sandy Bridge). AMD's got their hands full with something as complicated as CPPC. So I'd expect there to be zero firmware issues for Intel / at least very quickly resolved like at 11th gen release - at least until 14th gen.


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Aug 12, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> 12th gen Intel boost is dumb as a rock


Oh man this is so true. horrible. A few seconds of decent performance all core....... and then it tanks lol. And that's a 70c load CBR23. 

I mean the benchmark doesn't even take that long to complete. XD


----------



## mplayerMuPDF (Aug 12, 2022)

As I detailed here I am still experiencing USB issues with my 1600AF+X470 (latest AGESA/UEFI). I do not recall ever experiencing USB issues with past systems (ASUS Sandy Bridge laptop, Lenovo Sandy Bridge desktop, HP EliteBook Kaveri and Carrizo laptops). So overall, I am not impressed. Still, I am aware that Intel has had serious issues in the past too. I will run this system into the ground and then I will hopefully switch to ARM or RISC-V. We will see what the future holds.


----------



## Hofnaerrchen (Aug 12, 2022)

Still running my first AM4 MB (ASUS CH7H) with the second CPU (upgraded from 2700x to 5800X) and I have no plans to switch to AM5 soon, should there be money left after a probably very costly winter (energy prices skyrocketing) I might consider upgrading the GPU, if power consumption of the next generation is acceptable, first. In my case AM4 was a good choice and I did not regret the decision even once.


----------



## mama (Aug 12, 2022)

Well I think it's the most stable platform at the moment and it's longevity is a boon.  My experience is positive.


----------



## A Computer Guy (Aug 12, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Your old HDMI cable shouldn't have anything to do with it.


That's what people keep saying but I swear that after I switched cables I went from jitter dips below 30fps to flatline 60fps after changing the cable.  I'll see if I can reproduce this and get screenshots of Horizon Zero Dawn benchmark.to prove it.


----------



## freeagent (Aug 12, 2022)

ShrimpBrime -retired said:


> Not sure. I know I counter attacked with Aquamark though


Yes indeed!

I just cannot


----------



## AlwaysHope (Aug 12, 2022)

Fouquin said:


> I don't need to read old reviews, I still own the physical hardware and can validate whenever I please. I can assure you that without creating a thermally restrictive environment or tampering with the cooler in some way, I cannot and have never been able to produce 90C operating temps on a stock FX 8350.
> 
> As for rendering I actually have an interesting stat there, here's Blender's BMW render time on 2.83.12 LTS using a few different chips:
> 
> ...


Too bad that chart doesn't portray the FX-8350 with AMD"s officially supported 1866MHz ram on the Piledriver range of FX series. Showing off performance with 1600MHz ram CL11 just sucks all round! Crippling the performance of that particular chip in order to highlight how hopeless it is. THIS Is bad & misleading marketing 101.

Anyway, glad I got that off my chest cause' I'm typing this on an FX-8350 platform!  

With regards to the topic at hand though, my only experience with AM4 is with a B450 & X570 platforms but limited to Zen+ chip on both. They were a significant upgrade from my FX-8350 platform of course they would being some several yrs of evolution between the technology of those respective platforms. Because I was gaming at 1080p/60hz for yrs already & my favourite games capped out at 60fps anyway. Both platforms performed as well for me, of course both were overclocked rigs & why not? as an end user I want as much bang for my buck as possible.


----------



## caroline! (Aug 12, 2022)

What I was expecting. I had a 3800X for a while then managed to sell it, throw in a bit more money and get a 5800X all using the same mobo and RAM.


----------



## Fouquin (Aug 12, 2022)

AlwaysHope said:


> Too bad that chart doesn't portray the FX-8350 with AMD"s officially supported 1866MHz ram on the Piledriver range of FX series. Showing off performance with 1600MHz ram CL11 just sucks all round! Crippling the performance of that particular chip in order to highlight how hopeless it is. THIS Is bad & misleading marketing 101.



You should be acutely aware that faster DDR3 vs faster CPU-NB+HT is basically negligible on Vishera. Vishera isn't DRAM bandwidth starved at any point, it's entirely starved at the cache and HT Link. Try it yourself, get CPU-NB (generally shown as Uncore in CPU-Z) up over 2600MHz and HT Link at 2800+ and see how much that does for performance vs leaving everything stock and just running DDR3-1866. Also as a fun exercise, try overclocking all three and see how quickly the IMC gets entirely in your way so you have to resort to running lower DRAM speeds to get everything else, which actually contributes to performance, to run faster.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Aug 12, 2022)

A Computer Guy said:


> That's what people keep saying but I swear that after I switched cables I went from jitter dips below 30fps to flatline 60fps after changing the cable.  I'll see if I can reproduce this and get screenshots of Horizon Zero Dawn benchmark.to prove it.


And thats the problem with hdmi, a weak ass connection standard. VGA and DVI are way more robust.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Aug 12, 2022)

I skipped Zen1 and Zen+ they were just generally meh to me mostly X370 and X470 mobo generally being shit of meh quality compared to the intel equivalent although my Z390 asus maximus Code was also pretty trash.

Jumped on when X570 launched with a 3900X really 0 issues other than an Aorus Master dying I currently have a 5800X and 5950X based pc and it's been smooth sailing with both..... I really haven't had any issue with either camp though 5th/6th/9th/10th/11th gen intel worked just fine for me and I've done probably 50+ ryzen builds from all 4 generations and other than a 2400G being trash it's been all good.  

Currently just waiting to see how AM5 longevity will be the motherboards especially in the high end have gotten so good I don't mind keeping a board for 3 processor generations assuming it has similar longevity to AM4s socket. I also want to see what Meteor Lake brings but we will likely get 7xxx3D chips long before that launches so it will be hard to wait.


The systems I've had the most hands on with over the last 8 years pretty even mix of both camps.


----------



## ratirt (Aug 12, 2022)

I never had any issues with my two Ryzen set ups. I had x470 2700x which is still running fine with my nephews and x570 5800x I'm currently using.


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 12, 2022)

Other than the issues related to memory overclocking which were my fault I never really had any major problems with my 3700x and now 5800x on the GB X570 Elite.


----------



## GoldenX (Aug 12, 2022)

R3 1200 on B350: Great, no problems.
R5 3400G on B350: A complete disaster, MSI had that reduced BIOS that was full of bugs.
R5 3400G on B450: Good, nothing to complain. My problems with it were all Vega related, not platform specific.
R5 5600X on B550: Bliss.


----------



## LifeOnMars (Aug 12, 2022)

A Computer Guy said:


> I'm curious why Eco mode?  Did you have VRM heat issues with 5700x on that board?  I have a similar board (B450M Pro4) as well and was contemplating moving my 3800x to it.


No, ran it overclocked actually when I first got it so I could stress test/determine stability and see how far I could push it. It handled everything like a champ. Honestly it's a very cool running CPU from the get-go, the Vetroo cooler works great and I have really good airflow in the Meshify case with very low sound output from the fans running at reduced rpm. 

However, at 4K I'm 99.9% GPU bound, especially with the fidelity settings I like playing at in games and even in eco mode the CPU handles it with ease. Still boosts and feels ultra snappy but runs obviously at the reduced wattage/volts/temps. In very demanding games I only hit low 50s on CPU and 60c on an aircooled GPU with an extremely quiet fan profile.

To say I have been very happy with this setup would be a gross understatement


----------



## AlwaysHope (Aug 12, 2022)

Fouquin said:


> You should be acutely aware that faster DDR3 vs faster CPU-NB+HT is basically negligible on Vishera. Vishera isn't DRAM bandwidth starved at any point, it's entirely starved at the cache and HT Link. Try it yourself, get CPU-NB (generally shown as Uncore in CPU-Z) up over 2600MHz and HT Link at 2800+ and see how much that does for performance vs leaving everything stock and just running DDR3-1866. Also as a fun exercise, try overclocking all three and see how quickly the IMC gets entirely in your way so you have to resort to running lower DRAM speeds to get everything else, which actually contributes to performance, to run faster.


Getting off topic here but if admins want to move the post, of course they will. 

The microarchitecture for FX-8350 is Piledriver. I only have an Asus Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 platform to test with, one of the best AM3+ boards ever built back in the day, updated with the latest officially supported bios as well (v2901). The platform does not like running (unstable) or even booting successfully without NB & HT speeds being in synchronicity, & that makes mathematical sense in my opinion. I don't know why anyone would want to run one higher or lower than the other - bottleneck! 
I have run Aida64 v6.75.6100 benchmark runs & there is a clear difference in running RAM at either 1600,1866 or even 2133MHz with exactly the same major timings (minor timings left on auto in bios) & with NB & HT set to a fixed 2600MHz each.
In other words, higher RAM bandwidth with NB & HT speeds set to exactly the same speeds, benefits theoretical RAM performance as seen by these screenshots with Aida64. For the sake of this argument I have only included 1600 & 1866MHz runs.


----------



## Bomby569 (Aug 12, 2022)

Only problems i had were memory stability issues.


----------



## Assimilator (Aug 12, 2022)

I avoid being an early adopter of anything because I've never been particularly interested in paying companies to beta-test their products.

As such my first AM4 system was a Crosshair VI Hero (X370) with a 3600X, which I had zero problems with.
Current system is a Crosshair VII Hero Wi-Fi (X470) with a 5800X, again no problems (except for the fact that ASUS's BIOS updates are REALLY slow for a high-end board).
Going to be upgrading soon to an X570S Aorus Pro AX with a 5900X, purely so I can use a Thunderbolt add-in card. No idea what to expect here as (a) it's Gigabyte (with which I've had mixed experiences in the past) (b) it uses MediaTek for Wi-Fi, but not anticipating any horror. If the MeditaTek is shitty, I can always replace it with an Intel AX210.


----------



## Morgoth (Aug 12, 2022)

Compared to the LGA 1366 socket i was on for a decade.... im loving the AM4 with Ryzen 5900x


----------



## freeagent (Aug 12, 2022)

Morgoth said:


> Compared to the LGA 1366 socket i was on for a decade.... im loving the AM4 with Ryzen 5900x


AM4 is my new X58


----------



## GreiverBlade (Aug 12, 2022)

R5 3600 + MSI MAG B550 Tomahawk (latest bios) : smooth ride.
although it's only been 11~ month, AM5 will wait, a R7 5700X or a R7 5800X3D will be next, if i need an upgrade (as they are both going down in price, the 5700X i can find one for ~260chf and the 5800X3D is getting near 350chf )


----------



## AnotherReader (Aug 12, 2022)

I jumped early on the AM4 platform, and luckily, I didn't have any problems for nearly three years. After that, my experience was mixed:

1700X + AsRock X370 Taichi with 32 GB of ECC DDR4 2400 and a 290X from May 2017 to December 2019. No problems at all
upgraded to a Vega 64 in 2018 and a 3600X in December 2019
a couple of months into 2020, the problems started: my computer would be fine if kept busy, but being idle for anything over 3 minutes would result in a BSOD with WHEAs in the Event Viewer. I installed Ubuntu 20.04 LTS on a spare SSD and the computer was stable in it so I thought it was Vega driver issues
upgraded to 32 GB of ECC DDR4 3200 in December 2020; computer refused to boot with it and didn't even boot with the old RAM
bought an X570 board in December 2020 to test components. Vega 64 had moved to an old Phenom II build while I waited for time to rebuild my AM4 computer and was rock stable in it. It turned out that all of my problems were due to that Taichi
Since late 2020, the computer has been very stable and I haven't had any of the issues that Reddit and the forums are full of
Bought a 5700X recently, but haven't installed it as I'm trying to sell my 3600X
All in all, if I had taken the time to test components more fully, my experience would have been better, but I'll still upgrade to AM5 once ECC DDR5 6400 is supported. Golden Cove is a superior architecture, but the longevity of AM4, and hopefully, AM5, would make me stay with AMD.


----------



## mechtech (Aug 13, 2022)

Nothing really
Still running my 1700 and AX370.  Couldn't really OC the memory, but never put much effort into it or OC in general, maybe that's why I didn't really have any issues?  Had a few glitches over the years, but who knows if it was win10 and all those 6 month updates getting pushed, or drivers, or hardware or other??
Kids pc is a 3400G on a B550 pro CSM mobo, no issues either...........that I'm aware of.


----------



## ZoneDymo (Aug 13, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> Did not even try it...Past few years reading forums and AMD CPU's and memory issues what not...  I went straight with intel again this year.. It just works!



I have intel and mine most def doesnt just work...

On topic, both my sisters have AMD Ryzen, 1700 and 3600 and both have been problem free.


----------



## SpittinFax (Aug 13, 2022)

I upgraded some office machines to Ryzen 3100's a few years ago and they've been 100% trouble-free. The Haswell/Skylake Core i3's they replaced had constant issues.

Zen 3 has been great, I jumped straight onto a launch-day 5600X. No crashes or instability, no motherboard or RAM issues at all. And thankfully it doesn't suffer from the "saw-tooth" temperature spikes that Zen 2 did so there's no need to tweak fan delays to stop them ramping up-and-down constantly. Zen 3 is definitely more "Intel-like" than Zen 2 in its thermal behavior.


----------



## Palladium (Aug 13, 2022)

Most fuss-free platform I ever used, at least on Win 10 on 3600/5600 + cheapo B450/550.


----------



## tussinman (Aug 13, 2022)

trparky said:


> I'm really debating that too. Should I just dive right on in with AM5 or go with an Intel Core i7-12700K?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


12700k is such a fast processor that I doubt 13700 or 7700X will be signficantly faster in most real world usages. AM5 would have some risk but higher upside though 


tabascosauz said:


> I'm thinking the same, wanting to get on the trailing edge instead of the leading edge of releases, for a change. Tired of paying more for less. 11th gen let me down last time, though, from the rumors I'm not blown away by 13th gen. If not, AM5 is chock full of life - waiting for 8000 is easy.
> 
> I should revise my statement - 6 months into production seems to be the golden ticket for AMD. Yields and AGESA have matured to a point where CPU is exactly as advertised, and might even get in on some price drops too.
> 
> ...


Yeah if I did end up with AM5 I would wait 3-4 weeks after launch for the B series boards to come out. That would give enough time to see how people are reacting to it and by then the first updated bios should be out. If I did end up that route I would for sure take the safe approach (no overclocking of the CPU and buying the lowest risk ram speed, rumors are 5200 and 5600 being the low risk speeds for those that want the best chance of out of the box compatability)


----------



## trparky (Aug 13, 2022)

tussinman said:


> 12700k is such a fast processor that I doubt 13700 or 7700X will be signficantly faster in most real world usages.


The great part about going that route is that I could re-use my existing DDR4 memory.

Then again, I've been wanting to build an AMD-based system for a while simply because I want to support the underdog. The only problem is that I'd have to buy all new memory so that's an added cost. OK, I could go for AM4 but that's at the end of the line so that's no good. Yeah, it's very tempting to just go ahead and go with the i7-12700K and be done with it.


----------



## Dr. Dro (Aug 13, 2022)

trparky said:


> The great part about going that route is that I could re-use my existing DDR4 memory.
> 
> Then again, I've been wanting to build an AMD-based system for a while simply because I want to support the underdog. The only problem is that I'd have to buy all new memory so that's an added cost. OK, I could go for AM4 but that's at the end of the line so that's no good. Yeah, it's very tempting to just go ahead and go with the i7-12700K and be done with it.



Not entirely sure AMD, as far as CPU division goes, qualifies as "underdog" anymore, with the prices being what they are, the performance being what it is and the market share they've clawed over the past few years  

What I would personally do is build the LGA1700 platform and get a cheap Celeron or Pentium CPU, rock that for a little while and go straight for a i9-13900K.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Aug 13, 2022)

Dr. Dro said:


> Not entirely sure AMD, as far as CPU division goes, qualifies as "underdog" anymore, with the prices being what they are, the performance being what it is and the market share they've clawed over the past few years
> 
> What I would personally do is build the LGA1700 platform and get a cheap Celeron or Pentium CPU, rock that for a little while and go straight for a i9-13900K.



Considering their size and much smaller R&D budget vs Intel/Nvidia I would still consider them the underdog. I think people should mostly ignore pricing from the last 2 years for all companies silicon shortages mostly dictated pricing. It will be interesting how both companies behave going forward.


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Aug 13, 2022)

Dr. Dro said:


> Not entirely sure AMD, as far as CPU division goes, qualifies as "underdog" anymore, with the prices being what they are, the performance being what it is and the market share they've clawed over the past few years


They have clawed back to a full 22% market share, excluding certain markets they do not serve....

I reckon they are definitely the underdog still.


----------



## tussinman (Aug 13, 2022)

Dr. Dro said:


> Not entirely sure AMD, as far as CPU division goes, qualifies as "underdog" anymore, with the prices being what they are, the performance being what it is and the market share they've clawed over the past few years


Console deal was big as well from a CPU standpoint. Over 200 million consoles sold in the last 9 years that use AMD processors


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## Dr. Dro (Aug 13, 2022)

Count von Schwalbe said:


> They have clawed back to a full 22% market share, excluding certain markets they do not serve....
> 
> I reckon they are definitely the underdog still.



That is a lot accounting for the Intel-dominated laptop market, but if you look at the PC DIY segment, it's gotta be more than that. Ryzen has consistently been the top seller at least since the Ryzen 5 1600 "AF" (Zen+ refresh) came out. Anyhow, I would honestly just consider my own needs before allegiance to any brand


----------



## AusWolf (Aug 13, 2022)

I only got into AM4 with Zen 2 and the B550 platform. There were a few hiccups, like the USB dropout issue, that were fixed in the early BIOSes. Other issues had already been ironed out, so I wouldn't know what the initial problems were with older AM4 systems.

Now I'm on Intel with a B560, Rocket Lake system. Again, no issues. I've never seen a computer platform that's unusably bad, so I think the question "how is AM4" or "how is this or that platform" can only be answered with "fine".


----------



## The King (Aug 13, 2022)

My first Ryzen experience was with a 1700X and Asus Crosshair VI Hero.
Was good until the Asus board threw a Code 0 and never worked again.
Max OC I got stable was 3.9GHz all core.

I decided to get a "cheap" replacement mobo which is my current MSi B450M Mortar Max, this is when it became excellent!
Managed to get 4.1Ghz stable in most bechmarks along with RAM @ 3600 CL14 on first Gen Ryzen with no problems and it got me a few HWBOT records which I still have.

Since then I bought another MSi B450M Mortar Max and 2 ZEN 3 CPUs 5600 and 5600X both systems are rock solid running +3800MT daily.

My infamous 1700X is resting in the Asus Crosshair Hero. Probably will get it framed and turn on the RGB light. lol


Spoiler: 1700X 1966 FCLK


----------



## Athlonite (Aug 13, 2022)

Mostly good apart from mobo issues that weren't solved with BIOS/Agesa updates the Asus TUF x470 Gaming was a piece of shite with both the Ryzen 2700(nonX) and the 3700X not upclocking like they were supposed to but instead sitting on base clocks non stop. Sold to a friend who uses it with Linux Mint and seems to work perfectly for him 
updated mobo to Asus ROG Strix x570F - Gaming + Ryzen 3700X ran well but then got a Ryzen 5800X on a good deal but I can't get the 5800X to run 4000MT/s (2000MHz) without suffering WHEA errors so it runs 3933MT/s (1966MHz) instead


----------



## Ferather (Aug 13, 2022)

Went from AM3 FX (990fx) to AM4 R5 (x570), while the 7nm technology and wattage has gone down from FX, the cores are not much different in performance.
Going from 8 true cores, to 6 with clustered multi threading, I gain roughly 55% performance, where 12 is 50% greater than 8.

I'm running (in userbench, CPU and GPU hit 95th percentile):

Mobo: Asus Prime x570 Pro, bios 4403.
CPU: Ryzen 5 3600 @ 4085mhz.
RAM: 32GB DDR 3600.
GPU: RX 6600 8GB.

According to the bios update I can select up to 6000mhz RAM, and it should support Zen3 (see here)


----------



## AusWolf (Aug 13, 2022)

I forgot to add that my only bad experience of the AM4 platform was not directly related to the platform itself. I've found chiplet-based CPUs difficult to cool in small form factor systems. Or maybe it was the IHS design, which hopefully will improve with AM5.


----------



## Tomgang (Aug 13, 2022)

I have been fairly happy with AM4. I am not dissapointed. Only a few bumps over the past year i´ve been on AM4. But nothing major. Maybe because i was far from a early adopter. I first came om AM4 with Zen 3 halp a year after zen 3 lauched or June 2021. I will never be an early adopter, cause that´s where you will get the most and worst trouble. Like the USB and memory problems on the first gen of Zen chips like 1700X. Being an early adopter, also means you must be prepared for trouble and problems. That goes for Intels as well or for that matter any new hardware as well. Also not all problems on AM4, has to do with the cpu or chipset. It can just as well be the motherboard it self, that is the culprit. Specially on cheaper boards, where vendors had bad VRM´s or to bad cooling so VRM got to hot and CPU was forced to throttle
by the motherboard = giving you worse performance and a shorter lived motherboard.

Now with a 5600X in a B550 board and a 5950X in a X570 board bofh from Asus (i all ways chose Asus as my motherboard choise. I have just got only good things with asus). I think i can say i have teste AM4 properly in my daily use. I have got a few spontan BSOD early on and updated bios. That fixed that problem. Else i really have not had nay major problems. I´m satisfied. Also what i like about Zen 3, is the efficientcy and that 5600X and 5950X are not that hard to cool. Even on aircooling i got far better overclock results from my 5950X, that i exspected. Also 5600X can oc a little bit despite i´m using a low profile air cooler on it. But there are off cause not much headroom throw. My point is that Zen 3 is not a power hog and easy to cool, compared to intels alder lake. 

So i voted: Good, a few bumps on the way. But that really is also all i have had. Would i consider AMD again, yeah i would. But not as a early adopter. I will wait a for some time or even wait a gen before jumping on AM5 as exsample. There are a good chance of early problems. Specially with AM5 also moves to DDR5 and PCIe 5.


----------



## SonicZap (Aug 13, 2022)

A few bumps, but still overall satisfied. Voted for the second option.

- I had RAM compatibility issues when I hopped into AM4 in late 2017 with a Ryzen 5 1600X. System was not fully stable with RAM at 3200 MHz, had to lower the clocks to 2933 MHz.
- Motherboard BIOS updates helped with the memory compatibility.
- My laptop with a Zen+ APU (Ryzen 7 3750H) experienced some BSODs back in 2019, but BIOS updates have made it stable since then.
- Upgraded my desktop a 5700X, which brought a very nice performance improvement without a motherboard upgrade. It worked well for 2 months, but the system has been experiencing trouble since then (I created a thread about this). Probably not AM4's fault though.


----------



## ymdhis (Aug 16, 2022)

3600 + asrock b550m.

Had some hiccups that later BIOS revisions fixed (the USB3 glitch). The only real problem with this was heat output and idle wattage which was impossible to tweak. SoC voltage was around 11W idle, total package power was reported at ~25W or so with zero load!

Replaced it with a 5600G. After the initial setup required (BIOS refresh, redoing all settings, needed to update all drivers), it performed pretty much all the above problems. SoC now uses minimal power, heat output is far lower and cooling is more efficient. I attribute all these changes to the fact that it uses a single monolithic die instead of the chiplet design. The main reason for switching wasn't all the above but the fact that I stopped using discrete GPUs, but even with a discrete GPU in, the power usages is measurably lower on the 5600G.

I have experienced one issue tonight after a windows update. The video driver (amdwddmg) crashed and the screen hanged up then went black. Sometimes it recovered but usually not and required a hard reboot. Oddly it worked before tonight, doing a windows update seemed to have triggered it. Most reports online attribute this to RAM issues; removing XMP did not fix it, but tweaking the SoC voltage did. I was using -0.100V negative offset which I put back to Auto, and so far I did not get any hangs. SoC power usage went up from 1-2W to 3-4W, but I can live with that.

Entire machine uses ~44W idle right now, that's with a dual 10G NIC and around 6 fans total - the NIC alone uses some 15W according to the specs (didn't try measuring it with it removed). So I'm pretty satisfied with this, and in the process of converting my file server to a similar config.


----------



## AusWolf (Aug 16, 2022)

ymdhis said:


> 3600 + asrock b550m.
> 
> Had some hiccups that later BIOS revisions fixed (the USB3 glitch). The only real problem with this was heat output and idle wattage which was impossible to tweak. SoC voltage was around 11W idle, total package power was reported at ~25W or so with zero load!
> 
> ...


It's good to see that I'm not the crazy one here for thinking that the chiplet design is bad for heat output. I've had similar experiences as you with a 3600 that I gave to a friend after a week of struggle trying to keep it cool in a SFF system. It's so weird that I can push nearly double the wattage through the i7 11700 that I could through the 3600 with the same cooling solution. Idle power consumption is a lot better, too.


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## bug (Aug 16, 2022)

I had to vote "terrible". I got my CPU, mobo, wouldn't start. Debug leds on the mobo wouldn't even light up. Looked the problem up, seemed like the mobo was using an old BIOS, without Zen3 support. Got a cheap Athlon, still no boot. Debug leds light up, give me a code that wasn't in the manual. Sent mobo in for service, got confirmation it was faulty and that it will be replaced. Got sent back the same mobo, same problems.
At about $500 in, I decided to cut my loses and went back to Intel.
I realize this is (probably extremely) rare, but it is my experience


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## Athlonite (Aug 16, 2022)

bug said:


> I had to vote "terrible". I got my CPU, mobo, wouldn't start. Debug leds on the mobo wouldn't even light up. Looked the problem up, seemed like the mobo was using an old BIOS, without Zen3 support. Got a cheap Athlon, still no boot. Debug leds light up, give me a code that wasn't in the manual. Sent mobo in for service, got confirmation it was faulty and that it will be replaced. Got sent back the same mobo, same problems.
> At about $500 in, I decided to cut my loses and went back to Intel.
> I realize this is (probably extremely) rare, but it is my experience


Why didn't you just update the BIOS/UEFI or was there no update for ZEN3 at that time for the older chipset (X370 or X470)


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## bug (Aug 16, 2022)

Athlonite said:


> Why didn't you just update the BIOS/UEFI or was there no update for ZEN3 at that time for the older chipset (X370 or X470)


Why didn't I just update the BIOS on a motherboard that won't start? That's tough.
Anyway, it turned out the BIOS actually supported Zen3, the problem was (and still is) elsewhere.


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## Taraquin (Aug 16, 2022)

2400G: Zero issues 
3600: Zero issues 
5600X: A bit of stuttering when ram was overclocked\tuned on first bios, but got fixed after agesa 1.2.x.x

A bit off-topic, but mye i5 12400F has been a nightmare bioswise, now after the fith bios things are finally 99,9% stable.


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## QuietBob (Aug 16, 2022)

My experience with AM4 has been flawless, if limited to just two CPUs. I wasn't an early adopter and only jumped on the platform in late 2020 with Zen 2 and B550.

My first Ryzen was a 3300X that oc'd to 4.5 GHz on all cores with mere 1.275v (vs. 4.35 ST / 4.2 MT stock). I was also able to oc FCLK:UCLK:MCLK 1:1:1 at 1866 MHz with CL16 Crucial Ballistix. 1900 MHz was stable without WHEA errors, but caused intermittent audio popping. This CPU was a little monster that stood its ground in games against the more powerful Zen 2 SKUs thanks to its high clock, single CCD/single CCX design and a full complement of L3 cache. Even today I would consider the 3300X the sensible minimum for modern games, especially when GPU bound. I almost felt sorry when removing it to make room for the upgrade.

My current rig houses a 5800X3D which can't be oc'd, but at least it's happy with -30 CO on all cores. The system appeared stable with 2000 MHz IF using B-die, but in reality anything over 1900 resulted in random WHEAs. I haven't experienced BSODs or restarts, but eventually settled for 1900 MHz with RAM at flat 14. I haven't been able to fully utilize this CPU yet - outside of some benchmarks - as I'm mostly limited by the ST performance in older games, and with newer titles I see a GPU bottleneck even at 1080p. Also my daily work has little use for the 16 threads.

If I were to nitpick on the Zen architecture, I'd say I found the overclocking potential of both chips a bit lacking. That's just my sentiment though, since contemporary CPUs use advanced oc'ing algorithms out of the box to operate with (close to) optimum efficiency. The days of simple clock/multiplier/voltage adjustment are gone.

Oh, and the thermal management of those single CCD/CCX SKUs was baffling to me at first, with temps immediately shooting up on light ST workloads. The actual thermals have never been a source of grief to me, but since I'm quite obsessed with low temperatures, it was weird to see (and hear) those spikes.

While I'm looking forward to what Zen 4, especially the V-cache variant, will bring to the table, I don't think I'll be upgrading my main PC any time soon. I enjoy a maxed out platform and tend to stick with that for a long time. Hell, I still use my FX for web browsing, office work and retro gaming


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## T3RM1N4L D0GM4 (Aug 16, 2022)

Ryzen 5 2600x on Asrock B450M Steel Legend
Almost 3 year without issue.
Next upgrade: Ryzen 5/7 5000 Series


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## AleXXX666 (Aug 16, 2022)

tussinman said:


> Overall solid (especially compared to the prior 2 sockets) but in retrospect a little over-rated.
> 
> Zen 1 (1000 and 2000) had weak IPC and lots of memory issues
> 
> ...


now that's A PROPER point of view. totally agree.
if you don't spend a ton for X mb, b-die or overhyped and overpriced crucial ballistix new design edition and top-notch X-marked CPU, you will probably experience what is stated above lol.
not advertising, but with intel you will mess up with memory ONLY if you are going too high clocked for old/not top cpu and/or mb, or mix ram maybe. with ryzens 1000-2000 series and cheap b450 mobos, i was totally scammed for "free cpu OC", and a lot of sh*t with ram normal work. and with 12 gen intel out and now prices stabilized, 5000 series are for fans only, i am very waiting for am5 to compare. but again, ddr5 only? get off, amd lol.



T3RM1N4L D0GM4 said:


> Ryzen 5 2600x on Asrock B450M Steel Legend
> Almost 3 year without issue.
> Next upgrade: Ryzen 5/7 5000 Series


steel legend are midrange mobos, still OVERpriced series a lot at launch. X-ryzens tend to be a little less trouble, so, no surprise you have OK experience lol.


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## Veseleil (Aug 16, 2022)

Using 3600 for around 3 years. The only thing i regret is not buying 3600X instead... I've lost silicone lottery, as you can see on a CPU-Z Validator. 1.3V, and stable as it is. Static OC for life!


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## bug (Aug 16, 2022)

Veseleilo said:


> Using 3600 for around 3 years. The only thing i regret is not buying 3600X instead... I've lost silicone lottery, as you can see on a CPU-Z Validator. 1.3V, and stable as it is. Static OC for life!


Why would you regret that? 3600X was $50 extra with nothing to show for. You could lose the silicon lottery with a 3600X just as well.


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## freeagent (Aug 16, 2022)

The XT is the one you would have wanted, that was my first am4 cpu and she boosted to 4600 no problem. 4400-4500 static with Linpack was no problem. Heck I even ran it fan less for a bit. Should have kept it..


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## Veseleil (Aug 16, 2022)

bug said:


> Why would you regret that? 3600X was $50 with nothing to show for. You could lose the silicon lottery with a 3600X just as well.


It was only ~20EUR difference.


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## Taraquin (Aug 17, 2022)

bug said:


> Why would you regret that? 3600X was $50 with nothing to show for. You could lose the silicon lottery with a 3600X just as well.


Zen2 scales little with voltage, a good IMC so you can run ram at 3800 instead of 3666 is better than running core at 4.2 instead of 4.1 in my opinion 



AleXXX666 said:


> now that's A PROPER point of view. totally agree.
> if you don't spend a ton for X mb, b-die or overhyped and overpriced crucial ballistix new design edition and top-notch X-marked CPU, you will probably experience what is stated above lol.
> not advertising, but with intel you will mess up with memory ONLY if you are going too high clocked for old/not top cpu and/or mb, or mix ram maybe. with ryzens 1000-2000 series and cheap b450 mobos, i was totally scammed for "free cpu OC", and a lot of sh*t with ram normal work. and with 12 gen intel out and now prices stabilized, 5000 series are for fans only, i am very waiting for am5 to compare. but again, ddr5 only? get off, amd lol.
> 
> ...


Zen 1 and 1+ was terrible on ram support for a long time, works great now after 10+ agesas, but too low ipc. Zen 2 always had good ram support,  but too slow ipc.

It depends on the segment you buy for. As things stand now for budget you get similar performance with a 5600 and a 12400F running stock,  but Intels MB prices (B660 120usd+ vs B450 70usd+) and terrible decision of locking SA voltage (meaning 3000-3600 is max) on locked CPUs makes 5600 better value for many.

On the very budget 12100F is king (it can ofte OC ram to 3600-3800 G1) and in the high end 12700K/12900K are the best once tweaked (scales good with core frequency and ram tuning), if you run stock a 5800X3D (no OC and limited gains from ram tuning due to megacache) does the same for lower cost since a basic B450 runs it fine.


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## Desktopstu (Aug 17, 2022)

My AM4 experience was the best thing to happen to computing for a very long time. It was just... so refreshing to have multiple generations on a single platform. I was in at the begining with X370 and Ryzen 1500X i currently run a few 2700Xs and a 3800X, i do not think I will change any time soon.

Motherboards in my current rigs: ASrock A320 (low end i know but reliably runs the 2700X and 16gb RAM) ASrock Steel legend and MSI B450 (i dont recall which one now). 
Graphics in my current rigs: RX5600 in the A320, FE 3070 with the steel legend and GTX 980 in the MSI.


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## K4sum1 (Aug 17, 2022)

So, I began using AM4 with a Ryzen 7 1700 and a X370 Taichi. Other than not being able to get XMP on my RAM, it ran pretty well, until I tried BIOS version 1.94A. The BIOS ended up frying the board and two of the RAM sticks. I was able to return it because of the holiday extended returns, and because of limited stock, I ended up with a refund and I got a X370 Killer SLI/ac.

With the X370 Killer SLI/ac, something was cursed, maybe the board, maybe the two "good" sticks, or maybe even the CPU itself. Basically I dealt with crashing, blue screening, and other shit for a while until I gave up and downgraded to a 3770K based system.

In an alternative universe I would be on a used X79/X99 Xeon, but I decided to jump on a good deal on a X470 Gaming Pro Carbon due to those Xeons being overpriced af, and then later on I got a 2700X when they were super cheap. I assembled this system, and it's actually been pretty stable. I only upgraded my board for Gen 4 stuffs later on and because MSI used the weakest fucking 19 pin USB 3 connectors and both were broken. However recently my CPU appears to be unstable at even stock clocks. I intend to try RMAing it soon, but I have a few more months before the three years passes. I'll probably RMA it if I can get the 5950X I recently bought to work, so I'm not without the huge amount of RAM my Ryzen system has.


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## ymdhis (Aug 17, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> It's good to see that I'm not the crazy one here for thinking that the chiplet design is bad for heat output. I've had similar experiences as you with a 3600 that I gave to a friend after a week of struggle trying to keep it cool in a SFF system. It's so weird that I can push nearly double the wattage through the i7 11700 that I could through the 3600 with the same cooling solution. Idle power consumption is a lot better, too.


It's not as simple as "chiplet = bad". My 3600 had unusually high SoC power consumption (quick google showed others having far lower SoC values), and from what I understand most motherboards use very high default voltages which result in bad thermals out of the box. I put a lot of time into getting the "just right" settings for the 3600, and all of that carried over to the 5600g, so it got better values out of the box. With default motherboard settings, it may get similarly bad results.

Only reason the chiplet design is bad for heat output is because the primary hot part is not on the center, so coolers may not have all heatpipes connected optimally.

The 5600G is still better in all regards, but the difference is more like 7-8W for idle power consumption (all of that comes from the SoC alone; I'm sure if it didn't use the old GloFo process then it could use less, Zen4 reviews may prove this soon) and 4-5C for idle temperatures. I did not measure it under heavy load because when it's under that, I'm usually working and don't mind if the fans ramp up. My goal was to get silence when the system is under minimal load.
The computer is silent enough that the extremely minor transformer coil whine on my amplifiers primary power supply is easier to make out than the PC, during midnight with practically zero ambient noise. My setup is very heavily tweaked towards silence, I even used to have a GPU with a custom heatsink and the chassis fans linked to the GPU temp sensor too.

If you don't mind fan noise I'm sure keeping the 3600 at good thermals is not that difficult.

edit: Quick test says I get ~52C on CPU-Z stress test with PBO disabled and 61 with PBO enabled. On the latter, I'm hitting the EDC limits. So it is probably possible to get way more power out of this CPU, but I can't think of any reason why I'd do that. Idle temp is 36-40 depending on how hot it is during the day. I consider these good results. Note that I use a Hyper 212 Evo with two Noctua A12s on it (got them cheap used), not your typical setup by any means.


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## Veseleil (Aug 17, 2022)

ymdhis said:


> and from what I understand most motherboards use very high default voltages which result in bad thermals out of the box. I put a lot of time into getting the "just right" settings for the 3600


One of the two main reasons I've gone static OC. The other being PBO and all of its related settings didn't do any noticeable changes. I've tried, and then decided to send all of them to a place where the sun doesn't shine.


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## HD64G (Aug 17, 2022)

A few hiccups mostly from me putting tighther RAM timings than the chips would work with. Other than that, USB disconnections was solved after an AGESA-UEFI update. Very satisfied with the the efficiency and the performance.


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## Count von Schwalbe (Aug 17, 2022)

ymdhis said:


> It's not as simple as "chiplet = bad". My 3600 had unusually high SoC power consumption (quick google showed others having far lower SoC values), and from what I understand most motherboards use very high default voltages which result in bad thermals out of the box. I put a lot of time into getting the "just right" settings for the 3600, and all of that carried over to the 5600g, so it got better values out of the box. With default motherboard settings, it may get similarly bad results.
> 
> Only reason the chiplet design is bad for heat output is because the primary hot part is not on the center, so coolers may not have all heatpipes connected optimally.
> 
> ...


The 5600G is a monolithic APU on the 7nm process from TSMC. Your power consumption should have been somewhat different from the 3600 due to no chiplet interconnect.


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## ymdhis (Aug 17, 2022)

Count von Schwalbe said:


> The 5600G is a monolithic APU on the 7nm process from TSMC. Your power consumption should have been somewhat different from the 3600 due to no chiplet interconnect.


I know, it was one of the reasons I made the "sidegrade", and power consumption is indeed lower. I expressed all of that in the very post you quoted.


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## INSTG8R (Aug 17, 2022)

3700X was a bit of an issue tho turned out the CPU just had a bad IMC. 5600X has been a joy and a beast with my RAM pushed to 3800 CL18 vs stock 3600 CL16. It benches faster despite the higher CAS and I get 4850 all core OC. The 3700X was always just a “bookmark” until Zen3 and it totally paid off.


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## bug (Aug 17, 2022)

INSTG8R said:


> 3700X was a bit of an issue tho turned out the CPU just had a bad IMC. 5600X has been a joy and a beast with my RAM pushed to 3800 CL18 vs stock 3600 CL16. It benches faster despite the higher CAS and I get 4850 all core OC. The 3700X was always just a “bookmark” until Zen3 and it totally paid off.


AMD admitted they "cut some corners" with the IMC getting Zen out the door. Yet it was somewhat funny seeing people trying to tweak the crap out of their RAM sticks.

And by "cut some corners" I mean, like, "stop tweaking that thing, we need to release something". The IMC was done, but engineers felt like there was more to squeeze out of it. Which they did, with Zen2 and Zen3. The only shortcoming, and I called out AMD on this one, was not having an XMP equivalent and leaving people basically shooting craps with RAM in overclocked mode. Of course, Zen4 will fix that.


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## K4sum1 (Aug 17, 2022)

bug said:


> was not having an XMP equivalent and leaving people basically shooting craps with RAM in overclocked mode


But XMP works on AMD boards?


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## Count von Schwalbe (Aug 17, 2022)

ymdhis said:


> I know, it was one of the reasons I made the "sidegrade", and power consumption is indeed lower. I expressed all of that in the very post you quoted.


Ok, the way you worded it sounded to me like the you were saying the 5600G was the GloFo one. It makes more sense now that I look at that t a different way.


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## AleXXX666 (Aug 30, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Zen2 scales little with voltage, a good IMC so you can run ram at 3800 instead of 3666 is better than running core at 4.2 instead of 4.1 in my opinion
> 
> 
> Zen 1 and 1+ was terrible on ram support for a long time, works great now after 10+ agesas, but too low ipc. Zen 2 always had good ram support,  but too slow ipc.
> ...


well, not the basic, but, with proper vrm heatsinks and phases lol



K4sum1 said:


> But XMP works on AMD boards?


generally, yes. but, it's always have to have your ram in mb qvl list with yours cpu  a perfect world


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## fiftofar (Sep 1, 2022)

Every CPU I have had has been launch or preorder, never bothered trying to overclock CPU or mess with PBO/VOLT/POWER.
Never allowed SOC over 1.05V and kept all other memory and controller voltages low (lower than any auto or XMP).

1800X - AMD confirmed fault & replaced under warranty due to segfault bug. Sold replacement.

2700X(1) - no post with RAM over 3200mhz.. running fine to this day, no faults or problems.

2700X(2) - Stopped posting, returned for credit.

3900X - running fine to this day.

3950X(1) - retailer confirmed fault & replaced under warranty due to instability and bluescreens.

3950X(2) - running fine to this day.

5950X - replaced under warranty due to instability and bluescreens which turned into NO POST. Sold replacement.

ASUS: Crosshair X370, Crosshair X470, STRIX X470-F , Crosshair X570, Impact X570.
MSI: B350M Mortar, B450M Mortar, X570 ACE

RAID issues or RAID not working at all (both NVME & SATA).
With the MSI B350&B450M boards getting endless boot loops until a clear cmos.
Yes, with different drive combinations, different drives, different cables if SATA.

Bad driver experience (like bluescreens after windows update due mostly RAID drivers BUT there were some others but I can't remember the details).
This kinda thing happened a lot on insider windows builds for me when identical builds on intel systems worked fine AND it happened frequently enough to annoy me on public windows builds too.

USB issues, before and after the "fix" on multiple motherboards/CPUs/chipsets. Had devices not working at all for some period of time.

PCIE devices not working, preventing boot/post, disappearing.
Old or uncommon devices like capture card/TV tuner/USB card. I think some old GPU's would refuse to work or the system would fail to post which could be worked around by swapping to the chipset pcie slot.

Broken sleep.

I'll never forget or forgive the Destiny 2 breaking bug, the game i play the most unfortunately.

Tried StoreMi a couple times and was completely unsuccessful, at one point it was even discontinued.

X370 and Ryzen 1000&2000 was an absolute nightmare of a time ram compatibility wise for me until I got a couple kits of bdie.

Im not sure why I didn't just give up, probably from being an old AMD fanboy, nostalgia of Athlon XP and DFI+939 Opterons.

I am super concerned with AM5, especially if everyone is going to run out and get DDR5 6000, MORE so if they stick to the "4 sticks are better" mindset.

Unfortunately, you will get people like me who will have practically every issue under the sun, AND, you will have others that have zero problems whatsoever.

For example,  I have owned wayyyy too many AIOs and never had a single one fail. Since AM4 launch A friend of mine has had 3 fail (NZXT, MSI, CoolerMaster) and since ryzen 5000 launch a different friend has had two fail (Corsair & lian li). All mounted with the rad above pump/block except the msi where the pump was in the rad.

I don't know if I want to upgrade my 12900KF to a 13900K or go AM5.
Do I need to upgrade? No. Is it smart to upgrade? No, I'm not smart, I owned basically every gen of AM4 CPU and motherboard.

I hate using an old chipset with a new CPU, over the years I found a worse experience, poor support, poor implementation, slow updates, weirdness, compatibility issues, sometimes settings or features not working correctly and things like that. Sure, it might be fixed if you're lucky but usually you will be waiting and sometimes the fixes are poor. (All these not specifically aimed at AM4 or AMD, just in general from my experience)


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## kapone32 (Sep 1, 2022)

I started with AM4 with a X370 Prime from Asus and a 1700. That series of MB was super problematic for me and I went through 4 boards and Asus ridiculous RMA process. I settled with the X370 Taichi when I got the 2600. I enjoyed the 2600 until I bought a 3300X which then led to a 3600 by that time I was on X470 with the Gaming 7 but I replaced that with the X570 Strix-E. I then got a 5900x for that MB. MSI launched the X570S Ace Max and it has flexibility to install a tremendous amount of NVME storage or SATA if that is your cup of tea. Late last year there was a fire sale on the 5950X for $700 CAD. I bought that and have been a super happy customer ever since. As far as CPUs go I forget sometimes when I am in HWinfo64 that 16 cores at 4.5 GHZ is no joke in terms of raw performance. In terms of gremlins;

1. On X370 Corsair Vengeance RAM rated for 3200MHZ XMP would not go past 2933MHZ. Once you got Gskill,or Team though you were good but that was the most promoted RAM kit.
2. Really good RAM for Ryzen remained expensive for the entire span. Even 16GB of Gskill FlareX 3200 14 is still like $200 CAD. 
3. Asus Prime boards are garbage while the budget boards from As Rock and MSI were pretty good. 
4. Gigabyte is cheaper than everyone else for a reason 
5. The 3300X was almost impossible to buy like a week after they hit shelves for almost a year 
6. The 5000 series launch was great but the jump from 3000 to 5000 was not as noticeable in terms of snappiness like 2000 to 3000. 
7. The 3000 series was sweet because you could run 1.3 volts and have the max boost with 5000 the CPU will regularly pull 1.5 volts regardless of the chip. 
8. OC is much more involved 
9. USB issues that can be impossible to iron down 
10. Audio drops 
11. The way how the pricing of boards increased as we got less lanes.
12. Why the hell is the 5800X3D more expensive than the 5900X it certainly does not feel faster in regular use.
13. Some of the cheaper boards have no indication of what the board is doing.
14. What the F did they do to TR4? 

One of the best and worst things about AM4 is boards that have BIOS flash black. For some reason some AM4 boards like to lock up. I have used that function to bring back to life 2 Strix E boards and a MSI Ace that showed 0D on the MB readout. With Gigabyte boards they don't tell you that you have to remove the battery after updating for the board to actually complete the BIOS update. In terms of ranking of boards the best boards for AM4 by brand in my experience are: 

1. As Rock: Rock solid BIOS and boards that just work 
2. MSI: Great boards all right BIOS with a slight OC 
3. Asus: TUF and Strix are the way to go but overall the best BIOS
4.Gigabyte: Archaic BIOS, USB issues, not posting and pumping voltage through your CPU.

Overall I have been quite happy with AM4 and the journey has been crazy but the best is that it forced Intel to actually try. The 10400F is one of my favourite CPUs.


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## bug (Sep 1, 2022)

kapone32 said:


> I started with AM4 with a X370 Prime from Asus and a 1700. That series of MB was super problematic for me and I went through 4 boards and Asus ridiculous RMA process. I settled with the X370 Taichi when I got the 2600. I enjoyed the 2600 until I bought a 3300X which then led to a 3600 by that time I was on X470 with the Gaming 7 but I replaced that with the X570 Strix-E. I then got a 5900x for that MB. MSI launched the X570S Ace Max and it has flexibility to install a tremendous amount of NVME storage or SATA if that is your cup of tea. Late last year there was a fire sale on the 5950X for $700 CAD. I bought that and have been a super happy customer ever since. As far as CPUs go I forget sometimes when I am in HWinfo64 that 16 cores at 4.5 GHZ is no joke in terms of raw performance. In terms of gremlins;


That looks like a lot of unnecessary upgrades. I'm guessing you were selling your previous parts for a good price, so it didn't cost you that much.


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## kapone32 (Sep 1, 2022)

bug said:


> That looks like a lot of unnecessary upgrades. I'm guessing you were selling your previous parts for a good price, so it didn't cost you that much.


I built and sold over 20 per year so yeah it was good but boards especially were not always expensive. Even when X570 first launched it was not that expensive.


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## K4sum1 (Sep 1, 2022)

kapone32 said:


> 3. Asus Prime boards are garbage while the budget boards from As Rock and MSI were pretty good.


300 series ASRock budget boards were horrible.


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## freeagent (Sep 1, 2022)

I almost feel bad for jumping in when I did. 

Literally no problems.. The problems I am reading about here seem like they are from another world 

I wonder how much of that is mature bios, and QVL'd memory..


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## Valantar (Sep 1, 2022)

My AM4 experience has been good. Not perfect, but pretty good.

My old 1600X/Biostar X370GTN build served me well for years, with the only notable "issue" being a lack of RAM stability above 2933 - which took a while to figure out, but that's on me. Other than that it's been rock solid, and now runs my NAS with 32GB of ECC DDR4-2666 with no issues. Got this quite soon after launch, and never saw any of the oft mentioned early AM4 issues.

My HTPC, 4650G/ASRock B550M-ITX/AC, has been great, with the exception of the B550 USB issue, and my previously stable RAM OC no longer working after that BIOS update. I could no doubt have gotten it back by tuning it again, but haven't bothered.

My main pc, 5800X/ASRock PG B550 ITX/AX, also had the USB issue, and at times takes a long time to wake from sleep (no idea why).

It's worth noting that the USB issue was not a big deal to me with either PC - I noticed the disconnections, but they never caused me any trouble. No RAM I've used has been on any QVL. I've definitely had issues with all of these PCs, but most have been down to my own poor tuning or just general PEBKAC. My overall experience with AM4 has definitely been good.


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## A Computer Guy (Sep 1, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I almost feel bad for jumping in when I did.
> 
> Literally no problems.. The problems I am reading about here seem like they are from another world
> 
> I wonder how much of that is mature bios, and QVL'd memory..


From reading many comments online over the years I guesstimate 

60% BIOS issues ( lack of maturity/refinement and bugs ) 
30% RAM (related to XMP and UEFI/BIOS, but oh Corsair I'm looking at you in particular   )
10% Board quality issues 300/400 series mostly and low quality x570 boards


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## freeagent (Sep 1, 2022)

A Computer Guy said:


> but oh Corsair I'm looking at you in particular  )


It seems they really shit the bed this round.


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## A Computer Guy (Sep 1, 2022)

freeagent said:


> It seems they really shit the bed this round.


I've had several corsair kits, admittedly not Ryzen branded, but eventually got them all to work with simple timing and voltage adjustments but had it not been for DRAM Calculator and the OC Overclocking Guide I would have given up in frustration just trying to get them to work.


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## Athlonite (Sep 1, 2022)

K4sum1 said:


> 300 series ASRock budget boards were horrible.


they all were from all manufacturers not just from Asrock


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## cvaldes (Sep 2, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I almost feel bad for jumping in when I did.
> 
> Literally no problems.. The problems I am reading about here seem like they are from another world



Why should you feel bad for not being an early adopter? You saved yourself a lot of time and frustration. That's wise.



> I wonder how much of that is mature bios, and QVL'd memory..



My guess is a large part can be attributed to those two factors plus better chipset drivers. There are fewer complaints today than 2-3 years ago even from those who have older motherboards.


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## Zach_01 (Sep 4, 2022)

1. First Ryzen experience was back at Sept2017 when I build a PC for my sister with MSI B350 mate(something) and R5 1500X with 2x4GB Corsair LPX 3200MHz CL16 XMP. Worked fine from day 1 and keep going till now.
2. Aug 2019 for me, a R5 3600, X570 AorusPro, 2x8GB Corsair LPX 3466MHz CL16 XMP. Worked fine from day 1 with some hiccups in the try to run DRAM at 3600~3800MHz. BIOS on the board about 20 different versions. Settle for 3667MHz solid.
3. Two months ago got a R9 5900X to replace R5 3600 with new Ram Gkill Neo 2x16GB 3600MHz CL16 XMP. 3733MHz CL16, still work in progress.
CPU after a week got defective (artifacts on videos and on pictures, desktop background, some games played well, others not. Started RMA procedure after a week of tests with old CPU, old RAM, different PSUs and GPUs. Received a new(replacement) R9 5900X in 10 days.
Works fine now.

Maybe in a couple of months I will replace that 1500X and it’s Ram with my old R5 3600 and the 3466 LPX I took off my current system.

——————————

My vote was the second:
Good, a few bumps along the way.

Pretty much I think AM4 is a great platform.


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## AM4isGOD (Sep 4, 2022)

trparky said:


> I'm really debating that too. Should I just dive right on in with AM5 or go with an Intel Core i7-12700K?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have had my 12700k since launch with ZERO problems at all.



trparky said:


> Then you haven't seen...
> Potential Ryzen 7000-series CPU Specs and Pricing Leak, Ryzen 9 7950X Expected to hit 5.7 GHz | TechPowerUp Forums
> Read the last few pages if you need an example of outright Intel fanboism.



TPU is blatantly AMD centric now, with daily Intel bashing with the same broken record of uses tons of power, runs mega hot blah blah blah. All i see are Intel users defending against all this crap.


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## A Computer Guy (Sep 4, 2022)

AM4isGOD said:


> TPU is blatantly AMD centric now,


That sounds pretty sad.  Can't we all just get along?  (well most of us anyway)  I fairly recently came back to TPU and it seemed to be conversationally busier prior to the pandemic. (a non scientific observation)


AM4isGOD said:


> with daily Intel bashing with the same broken record of uses tons of power, runs mega hot blah blah blah. All i see are Intel users defending against all this crap.


I keep telling myself there is no such thing as a bad CPU.  Just bad pricing.
(My internal voice says it still wants me to buy a Xeon - please don't hate me!)


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## P4-630 (Sep 4, 2022)

AM4isGOD said:


> I have had my 12700k since launch with ZERO problems at all.


Same here, zero problems with my i7 12700K, no memory issues, even with DDR5 6000 memory and no voltage tweaking needed.


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## freeagent (Sep 4, 2022)

Dunno what you are talking about.. amd can run pretty hot a chew a ton of power. I use both Intel and amd.. though my Intel units are not as modern. What is sad is picking sides and waving flags like it really matters.


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## Splinterdog (Sep 4, 2022)

Apart from being a major and costly upgrade I haven't experienced any problems at all. In fact I was delighted that AM4 supports Zen 3 with a BIOS update, allowing me to upgrade to a 5600x.
It's still a relevant platform in my opinion.


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## AM4isGOD (Sep 4, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Dunno what you are talking about.. amd can run pretty hot a chew a ton of power. I use both Intel and amd.. though my Intel units are not as modern. What is sad is picking sides and waving flags like it really matters.



Shame there is so much fervant flag waving on TPU, and in my opinion red flags.

The pages and pages in AMD or Intel threads about Intel efficiency and power use needs to stop, imo it's like chimps throwing shit at each other.


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## A Computer Guy (Sep 4, 2022)

Splinterdog said:


> Apart from being a major and costly upgrade I haven't experienced any problems at all. In fact I was delighted that AM4 supports Zen 3 with a BIOS update, allowing me to upgrade to a 5600x.
> It's still a relevant platform in my opinion.


I think AMD doing this was a nice move for consumers but in reality I think it they made a calculation that it nets them more profit in upgrades.  Not everyone will jump to AM5 and lowered prices and specials on 5000 is pretty appealing option where it makes sense especially in the gaming segment.  That decision ended up being a win for consumers I think.


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## wheresmycar (Sep 4, 2022)

I've always been with intel and even my current build carries a 9700K (gaming).

I have used, worked on and upgraded existing AM4 builds and currently have a couple of older AM4 (B350/B450) builds or half builds sitting around (brother just passed these to me after closing one of his offices). I have to admit I've been a late subscriber to AM4 and the experience so far has been perfect!! Never had an issue only it sucks some of the boards dont have a BIOS flash button. Not a problem, got a 1600 in one of them if I need to upgrade any of the builds for a 5000-series. I've experienced other issues but I believe thats down to the board manufacturer as the same wasn't experienced on other AM4 boards. I've seen all the negative feedback in reference to AM4 at release... a good reason not to buy into anything brand spanking new and let it mature a little (same with any socket/GPU/CPU/etc etc)

To think of it... i feel i've missed out. I would have loved to have bought into AM4 during the 1000/2000-series Ryzen era to have upgraded to 5000-series today. AMD's come along way with the AM4 socket and its very nicely paid off for those who demand superior performance for a fraction of the cost. For me, integrated graphics was always necessary as it's saved my a-s-s once with a discrete graphics card playing up.. so intel was always the solution for me . That will change massively with 7000-series AM5... glad AMD's gone with the basic iGPU route!!


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 4, 2022)

freeagent said:


> It seems they really shit the bed this round.


It's proven you don't hear much from happy costumer's but lots from those with issues.

For what it's worth as a small scale builder to order I've built quite a few with Intel and AMD and had all sorts of issues but given Qvl lists, pretty much all down to either one off faulty parts rarely on new builds and difficult memory modules or faulty one's.


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## RJARRRPCGP (Sep 5, 2022)

GerKNG said:


> Zen 3:
> first launch 5800X with a B550 Strix F non stop idle crashes.
> second 5800X was sold.
> first 5900X was unstable in P95 (Stock)


Were those problems in Prime95 WHEAs? Was it "Cache Hierarchy Error" for the reason? This seems to be a common error report with Ryzen.


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## AusWolf (Sep 5, 2022)

A Computer Guy said:


> That sounds pretty sad.  Can't we all just get along?  (well most of us anyway)  I fairly recently came back to TPU and it seemed to be conversationally busier prior to the pandemic. (a non scientific observation)
> 
> I keep telling myself there is no such thing as a bad CPU.  Just bad pricing.
> (My internal voice says it still wants me to buy a Xeon - please don't hate me!)


I hear you. My internal voice wants me to upgrade to AM5, even though I had a 5950X for a few months that I downgraded to a Core i7 11700 that I'm happy with (the rest of the AM4 system is my HTPC now). As much as I love new tech and fast PCs, I don't need the best of the best - I just drool over news and reviews. 



freeagent said:


> Dunno what you are talking about.. amd can run pretty hot a chew a ton of power. I use both Intel and amd.. though my Intel units are not as modern. What is sad is picking sides and waving flags like it really matters.


Absolutely! I had no problem with the 5950X on water. My 3100 is also a brilliant CPU, even with the stock cooler. The 3600 I briefly tried was a struggle, though. I wanted to use it in a SFF case, but cooling it was a disaster both with the stock cooler and the Be Quiet Shadow Rock LP, so I gave it away. Then I built a PC for my brother with a R5 5500, which gets up to 90 °C with the stock cooler, but at least it works.


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## freeagent (Sep 5, 2022)

Oh yeah they can take the heat.. I had a 3600XT running a static clock of 4400 with a passive cooler (Le Grand Macho RT) and it was Linpack stable. Those XT's were pretty good, at least mine was. Was my first AM4 CPU 

It actually ran 4x8GB better than my 5600X, and about equal with my 5900X. Except my 5900X will actually post at over 1900 1:1 with the 4, when the XT refused, and the 5600X tops out at 3666 with the 4, but is 2K stable with 2, and can go to 2100 1:1.

Weird stuff.


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## Naito (Sep 5, 2022)

My AM4 experience has been smooth sailing. Originally built at the end of 2019 with a 3600X and have since upgraded to a 5800X3D. Have swapped around SSDs, played with RAM clocks and timings (just using XMP profile now), installed AIO, upgraded GPU, and changed soundcards. Has been stable through all that with no OS re-installs. Only issue experienced with the system as a whole, was when my then new RTX 3080 Ti's transient load kept triggering the protection on my not-so-old Seasonic PX-850.

The 5800X3D surprised me a lot more than I thought it would. I was expecting a modest FPS boost in most titles, but got a lot more than that. The consistency and pace at which the GPU can now deliver frames is just impressive. Everything plays so much smoother. It'll tide me over until AM5 matures a bit more... that is if I can resist the upgrade itch...


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## wheresmycar (Sep 5, 2022)

Naito said:


> My AM4 experience has been smooth sailing. Originally built at the end of 2019 with a 3600X and have since upgraded to a 5800X3D. Have swapped around SSDs, played with RAM clocks and timings (just using XMP profile now), installed AIO, upgraded GPU, and changed soundcards. Has been stable through all that with no OS re-installs. Only issue experienced with the system as a whole, was when my then new RTX 3080 Ti's transient load kept triggering the protection on my not-so-old Seasonic PX-850.
> 
> The 5800X3D surprised me a lot more than I thought it would. I was expecting a modest FPS boost in most titles, but got a lot more than that. The consistency and pace at which the GPU can now deliver frames is just impressive. Everything plays so much smoother. It'll tide me over until AM5 matures a bit more... that is if I can resist the upgrade itch...



thats great!! 

It's surprising AM4 lived long enough to deliver something which trades game worthy blows with the 12700K/12900K (in select titles outshining the 12900K). Thats quite an epic score for a "dying" socket... in-fact breathing plenty of years of "life" ahead of its time IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if the DDR5/AM5 premiums will deter most gamers from making the shift from AM4 anytime soon... and i don't believe they'd be missing out on much. Unless benchmarks rip holes through AM4, you better keep resisting the itch ... try this:


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## freeagent (Sep 5, 2022)

The horsepower available to AM4 is ridiculous. I built mine almost 2 years ago, and its still crazy fast to me.

Even with no boost override


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## trparky (Sep 5, 2022)

freeagent said:


> The horsepower available to AM4 is ridiculous. I built mine almost 2 years ago, and its still crazy fast to me.


True, but if you were doing that upgrade today, would you still go with AM4? I'm thinking not. I figure that if you were doing that upgrade today, you'd be going with AM5 and you'd be crazy not to.


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## Mussels (Sep 5, 2022)

I was an early adopter who bought second hand parts from someone who sold the parts as not working, which was the simple combination of

1. Shitty MSI board (MSI made the very worse AM4 boards until B550 launched, they've got maybe 3 amazing ones and the rest are trash)

2. Corsair LPX ram, which sucked on AM4 for multiple reasons
a: It was dual rank, which later on everyone learned gave ryzen a performance boost, but lowered the supported clock speeds (quad rank 3200Mhz was not easy on Zen 1, but wasn't officially supported either!)
b: odd number memory timings before gear down mode was perfected
c: one of those damn sticks was faulty all along. It was fine but crashed when it hit 40C - this took almost 2 years to diagnose as it took heat from a GPU to get unstable. I've since seen this in 3 other systems first hand, all with corsair LPX in the 3000 and 3200 kits.

To this day people still slap in four dual rank sticks and ask why they cant run 3200 or 3600 from XMP magically...




trparky said:


> True, but if you were doing that upgrade today, would you still go with AM4? I'm thinking not. I figure that if you were doing that upgrade today, you'd be going with AM5 and you'd be crazy not to.


B550 + Zen3 (5600 or above) is dirt cheap, readily available and doesn't require fancy cooling. You barely even need case fans, until the 5800x.


Even with a 3080, the 5600 is really, really high up in the performance charts - at any higher res or any weaker of a GPU, why spend more?






Using tomshardwares average results with a 3090, you can see the same - unless you're running a 165Hz monitor or need extra threads for some sort of workload, budget CPU's are easily enough to run even a 3090 these days.

Look at the 3600x vs the 5600 - over a 30FPS leap. Zen 3 leaped ahead hugely, and the lower end models are very, very close to the higher end in gaming performance.







Considering i could grab a 5600 non x and power my 3090 at 150+FPS, it becomes damned hard to justify anyone spending more.
And then when you can run anything from any generation of AM4 you can get older stock or second hand boards to save a lot of money, as well as use any DDR4 you might have, or is on sale.


The TPU page covers it in detail, but these are extremely efficient - AMD made everything under the 5700 without the crazy boosting, so they dont run hot like the 5800x/3D, nor do they use much power at all.
AMD Ryzen 5 5600 Review - Fantastic Choice for Upgrades from Older Ryzens - Power Consumption & Efficiency | TechPowerUp



The only reason i can justify something from the current intel platforms is if they were massively cheaper - once you add in the cost of an AIO and a bigger PSU, yeah - i'd tell people to get AM4 in 2022.


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## Taraquin (Sep 5, 2022)

AM4isGOD said:


> I have had my 12700k since launch with ZERO problems at all.
> 
> 
> 
> TPU is blatantly AMD centric now, with daily Intel bashing with the same broken record of uses tons of power, runs mega hot blah blah blah. All i see are Intel users defending against all this crap.


I think TPU is quite balanced. They praised Alder lake, and except for 5800X3D nothing from AMD can compete with 12600K and up. Generally some AMD chips run hotter, especially 5800X(3D).

I have a 12400F and it needed 5 bios updates to become stable using tweaked ram in gear 1, my 5600X was 100% stable from day one. 12400F runs a bit cooler though.

As for budget options buying a 12100F or 12400F and a Asrock B660 Riptide and do a bclk OC to 4.8-5.2GHz you have the ultimate budget champ


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## sepheronx (Sep 5, 2022)

Had a Ryzen 5800 (non x) in an alienware build I got just for the rtx 3080 at the time.

The 5800 is a damn solid cpu.  Used it though to upgrade my friend from a 3600 as I'm now selling parts from the alienware (the motherboard is lousy imo).

Played with a couple of friends am4 systems and enjoyed them. Bios update on them was easy and never really had issues.  Both were X570 motherboards mind you, I don't have much experience with the other ones.


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## trparky (Sep 5, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Even with a 3080, the 5600 is really, really high up in the performance charts - at any higher res or any weaker of a GPU, why spend more?


True, however, AM4 is basically at its end of the line. That puts you into a sort of an impossible situation, you've essentially killed off any possibility of future proofing your build. At least if you go with AM5, you have the option to go and upgrade again in two or three years with a simple drop-in replacement of the processor much like I did with my father's system where I replaced his 2600X with a 5600X and saw a 40% boost in performance.

Myself, I'm with an 8700K that's showing signs of being long in the tooth. The really stupid part is that I have a notebook that I just bought that has an Intel 12th-Gen Mobile CPU in it and it's positively beating the snot out of my 8700K at some tasks. I have to admit that when I saw that happening, I had a real WTF  moment. I'm not talking games here because the notebook isn't built for gaming but we're talking just basic jobs like opening up office, boot speeds, data compression speeds, program load times, etc. The 12th-Gen Mobile Intel CPU is beating the snot out of my 8700K in that regard.

In my case, I can't help but want to go with AM5 because I plan to keep this build long term.


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## TheLostSwede (Sep 5, 2022)

Lots of issues initially with both my Ryzen 7 1700 and Ryzen 7 3800X.
Mostly AGESA/UEFI related, but the good old Corsair LPX modules never worked as intended.
No issues with the Ryzen 7 5800X in the same board as the 3800X, but that was largely because all the issues were fixed after about six months of the X570 platform launch.


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## trparky (Sep 5, 2022)

I also had memory config issues with my father's Ryzen 2600X system. I had to manually down-clock them to gain system stability and by that, I mean get the system to even boot. The 5600X was a breeze; drop it in, enable DOCP/XMP and off to the races I went.


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## Naito (Sep 6, 2022)

An old colleague of mine had the company purchase a 5900X system for his development work just after it was released. Was thrashed every day with SQL, Redis, Docker, VMs, and various IDEs and never skipped a beat. This thing was never turned off or restarted throughout its entire tenure. Once he left the company, he was able to keep the machine. It is now running Unraid running with virtual machines, etc


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## Kissamies (Sep 6, 2022)

Got a MSI X470 Gaming Plus + R5 2600 first, no problems except the board broke as I had a leak in my custom loop. Got an Asus TUF B450 Gaming Plus and got the system running again. Again, no problems.

Then I sold that bundle, got a MSI B450M Mortar MAX + R5 3600, a great bundle but I started to have problems with the board. Replaced it with a Gigabyte B550M Aorus Elite and have been running with these for the last 1½ years. I had crappy 4x4 2400 @ 2666 RAM first, upgrading to 2x16 3200 @ 3466 gave a nice boost. Still going to stick with AM4, I'll just get a 5700X sooner or later.


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## kapone32 (Sep 6, 2022)

Naito said:


> An old colleague of mine had the company purchase a 5900X system for his development work just after it was released. Was thrashed every day with SQL, Redis, Docker, VMs, and various IDEs and never skipped a beat. This thing was never turned off or restarted throughout its entire tenure. Once he left the company, he was able to keep the machine. It is now running Unraid running with virtual machines, etc


The 5900X in my opinion is the most enjoyable AM4 CPU.


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## K4sum1 (Sep 6, 2022)

kapone32 said:


> The 5900X in my opinion is the most enjoyable AM4 CPU.


I would avoid the 5900X myself, since the bins are kinda terrible on it. The 5950X uses less power and clocks higher, while also having 4 more cores.


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## Kissamies (Sep 6, 2022)

K4sum1 said:


> I would avoid the 5900X myself, since the bins are kinda terrible on it. The 5950X uses less power and clocks higher, while also having 4 more cores.


And it's ~150EUR more expensive..


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## freeagent (Sep 6, 2022)

K4sum1 said:


> I would avoid the 5900X myself, since the bins are kinda terrible on it. The 5950X uses less power and clocks higher, while also having 4 more cores.


Depends on who’s operating it.


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## Mussels (Sep 12, 2022)

trparky said:


> True, however, *AM4 is basically at its end of the line.* That puts you into a sort of an impossible situation, you've essentially killed off any possibility of future proofing your build. At least if you go with AM5, you have the option to go and upgrade again in two or three years with a simple drop-in replacement of the processor much like I did with my father's system where I replaced his 2600X with a 5600X and saw a 40% boost in performance.
> 
> Myself, I'm with an 8700K that's showing signs of being long in the tooth. The really stupid part is that I have a notebook that I just bought that has an Intel 12th-Gen Mobile CPU in it and it's positively beating the snot out of my 8700K at some tasks. I have to admit that when I saw that happening, I had a real WTF  moment. I'm not talking games here because the notebook isn't built for gaming but we're talking just basic jobs like opening up office, boot speeds, data compression speeds, program load times, etc. The 12th-Gen Mobile Intel CPU is beating the snot out of my 8700K in that regard.
> 
> In my case, I can't help but want to go with AM5 because I plan to keep this build long term.


Except it's not, AMD have said it's got years more support and new CPU's coming

Even if just one generation remains, that puts it on par with how intel do things


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## Mikael Andersson (Sep 12, 2022)

GerKNG said:


> Overall disappointed with tons of issues that appeared with every generation over and over again.
> 
> 
> Zen +:
> 2700X a bit degraded after two years at 1.42V sold to a friend (still in use)


You should never go above 1.36V so no wonder that your CPU degraded over time even if it took a couple of years.
And personally I'm staying below 1.3V but that's because my CPU is eleven years old.


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## wheresmycar (Sep 12, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Except it's not, AMD have said it's got years more support and new CPU's coming



In the naming scheme of things, seeing AMD skipped 6000-series (desktop) for 7000 on AM5... is it possible 6000 was left for yet another forward Gen release on AM4? I'm assuming there's no mention from AMD in an official capacity as to what the AM4 forward support entails?


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## Tropick (Sep 12, 2022)

Got to the party late, 5600X/AORUS B550 Elite V2/DDR4-3600. Only issue I've ever had with the system is a buggy BIOS from Gigabyte that was easily remedied by rolling back to the previous version.

It sounds like early adopters bore the brunt of the issues with AM4 while those getting in on Zen3/500 series chipset had a pretty smooth ride overall.

Needless to say I'm running my AM4 system until it's wheels fall off. When Zen3/RDNA2 prices fall off a cliff I'm planning on eventually upgrading to a 5800X3D, 6950XT and PCIe 4.0 NVMe and using that for as long as possible.


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## trparky (Sep 12, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Except it's not, AMD have said it's got years more support and new CPU's coming


Where? I've not read anything that's concrete on that subject so I'd have to assume that no, that's not the case.


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## Mussels (Sep 16, 2022)

trparky said:


> Where? I've not read anything that's concrete on that subject so I'd have to assume that no, that's not the case.


theres a confirmed line of ryzen PRO CPU's, so we have at least that

Even if theres no new models, there's ongoing production and sales still - which means basic support continues


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## SpittinFax (Sep 16, 2022)

Mussels said:


> theres a confirmed line of ryzen PRO CPU's, so we have at least that
> 
> Even if theres no new models, there's ongoing production and sales still - which means basic support continues



Hopefully there's a serious Zen 3 quad core released as a successor to the 3300X. The Ryzen 3 4100 may as well have been AMD's April Fools joke.


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## Mussels (Sep 18, 2022)

SpittinFax said:


> Hopefully there's a serious Zen 3 quad core released as a successor to the 3300X. The Ryzen 3 4100 may as well have been AMD's April Fools joke.


If yields are good, the 5600 is that level of CPU now
Zen3 is only made as 8 core CPU's, so if the cores are coming out intact you'd get 6 or 8 core CPU's cheap, instead of 4 core models


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## Zach_01 (Sep 18, 2022)

ΑΜ4 platform had almost 4years support (Zen1 >> Zen3) and a life cycle of 5.5+y. Even if no new CPU is coming, the socket's support was/is great. Cant change this.
Who ever has a 5000series CPU can skip AM5 entirely and go for AM6.
Too few users "must" upgrade to AM5.
99% of 5000series users will be fine for the next 3~5years with just upgrading 1~2 GPU(s) depending on where they stand now. Even those with 6c/12t.


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## Kissamies (Sep 18, 2022)

Zach_01 said:


> ΑΜ4 platform had almost 4years support (Zen1 >> Zen3) and a life cycle of 5.5+y. Even if no new CPU is coming, the socket's support was/is great. Cant change this.
> Who ever has a 5000series CPU can skip AM5 entirely and go for AM6.
> Too few users "must" upgrade to AM5.
> 99% of 5000series users will be fine for the next 3~5years with just upgrading 1~2 GPU(s) depending on where they stand now. Even those with 6c/12t.


Agree with 3600


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## trparky (Sep 18, 2022)

But if you're upgrading now or in a few months, why not go for broke and get Ryzen 7000 and not back yourself into a corner?


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## freeagent (Sep 18, 2022)

I personally don't find AM5 to be very enticing right now. Boards are expensive, CPUs might be a bit expensive, Ram could be expensive... and for what? A 15-20% bump? And since it will be using moar power, it will cost more to run too as well as be harder to cool? Gotta wait for reviews and such to drop to draw a final conclusion I suppose but right now just not feeling it. I want to see what Intel can do too.


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## P4-630 (Sep 18, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I want to see what Intel can do too.


The only downside for intel now is that it's the last socket 1700 platform.

I bought Z690 , which I can upgrade with a Raptor Lake CPU as last upgrade, but I don't mind much since for me it's enough power to last at least 5~6 years.


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## freeagent (Sep 18, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> but I don't mind much since for me it's enough power to last at least 5~6 years.


That’s about how I feel about mine, well.. it feels like it’s ok for another year or two..


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## trparky (Sep 18, 2022)

freeagent said:


> A 15-20% bump?


For me, it would be a massive jump in performance. Coming from my current 8700K, I imagine I'd be looking at least a 40 to 50% bump in performance especially since I plan on getting an eight core as versus just six cores.


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## Mussels (Sep 19, 2022)

trparky said:


> But if you're upgrading now or in a few months, why not go for broke and get Ryzen 7000 and not back yourself into a corner?


Price and availability
I cant buy that right now, but i can buy a dirt cheap ryzen 5600 and slap it in any AM4 motherboard with any AM4 cooler 


If price was no object of course you'd buy the best and greatest, but if you're not running a 3080 or above for high refresh rate gaming, even a 3090 isn't held back by current gen intel and AMD offerings



trparky said:


> For me, it would be a massive jump in performance. Coming from my current 8700K, I imagine I'd be looking at least a 40 to 50% bump in performance especially since I plan on getting an eight core as versus just six cores.


You get more of a boost than most since you're getting away from the performance eating security fixes, too


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## sLowEnd (Sep 20, 2022)

trparky said:


> But if you're upgrading now or in a few months, why not go for broke and get Ryzen 7000 and not back yourself into a corner?



A CPU upgrade path isn't necessarily a relevant selling point for some people.

I didn't consider Zen 3 at all when I built my system in early 2020 with an R5 3600. It fits my needs then, now, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. I do intend to get a better PC around 2024-2025, but by then Zen 3 would have no real appeal to me over the newer parts that will be available.


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