# why do people fold



## lisburnni (Apr 15, 2009)

I have been reading cusotm pc for a couple of years now , read various pc forums etc and seen all the tables for folding , now if im correct its about duplicating dna strands to guess how they manipulate in real life to predict conditions/cancers etc , 

these tests use CPU and/or GPU at close to 100% usuage for extended periods of time to do this , im just wondering why do people find this worthwhile .

now im all for finding a cure the above mentioned conditions , but at what cost. surely the worlds best super computers / scientists would of found an answer by now , does the "potential" far outway the cost ( electricity) to the folder, in times of energy crisis etc isnt this all a waste of resources 

id love to hear the views on this


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## oli_ramsay (Apr 15, 2009)

I'd say folding is 90% e-peen 10% philanthropy.


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## Marineborn (Apr 15, 2009)

well good question, yes they have super computers on it too, but why not get the general publuc involved, people that care to use there computers for good is there choice. i persoanlly have 3 cpus running nonstep doing calculations for cancer aids and disseases, and i happy to donate my cpu's my awnser is gonna be if your willing to do it, your just helping them they cant be exspected to just have a infinite number of computers. and dammit its gym time, too finish up, they found out the protein stand and its so complex that they said i beleive it would take hundreds of years to completly break down with what they had for technology so every person that helps takes a couyple minutes of that 100 of years and gets closer toa  cure


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## ShadowFold (Apr 15, 2009)

The electricity thing doesn't bother me. I fold because I want to see TPU's rank get higher on the charts.
I know it's not going to cure or help anything, it's more of a competition thing to me.


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## lisburnni (Apr 15, 2009)

not being pedantic shadowfold but on the grand scheme that counts as epeen


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## Evo85 (Apr 15, 2009)

lisburnni said:


> not being pedantic shadowfold but on the grand scheme that counts as epeen



Maybe so. But Shadows earned it.


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## El Fiendo (Apr 15, 2009)

There are supercomputers, but I don't think any of them are actually dedicated to folding. Its not like people build supercomputers and then go around looking for work. The Roadrunner (the fastest single supercomputer) is currently analyzing the US Nuclear Arms stockpile. Folding@Home is actually around 4 x as fast as the Roadrunner, having topped 6 petaflops across all processors, while the roadrunner is only 1.7 petaflops.


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## Haytch (Apr 15, 2009)

I started off just wanted to know what its all about, then i went thru the phase of trying to find something personal to fold, and now i focus on cancer and seti.

The reason i do it is fairly obvious.
Cancer :-  Probably the only disease not man made that we need a cure for.
SETI :- The day we find out the truth, will change mankind forever and bring upon us the era of Star Trekking.


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## lisburnni (Apr 15, 2009)

dont you ever think tho , if something was gonna be discovered it wont of been by now 

is it worth the cost to you personally


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## dark2099 (Apr 15, 2009)

Science advancements happen at different speeds, and if your argument against it is that we should have found a cure by now, then how is the common cold really "The Many Common Colds" considering how rapidly it mutated into probably hundreds if not thousands of different strains.


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## El Fiendo (Apr 15, 2009)

How long has the theory of evolution been around? I believe in it, but its still not proven conclusively. Science takes time. Folding started 5 years ago? 6? Do you know how complex the human genome is? 

Its added maybe 25 dollars a month onto my bill. Its expensive, but for a hobby that's still pretty damn cheap. Until I get bored of it, what else am I going to spend the money on? 

Lastly, I fold for my friend who's got Vascular Ehlers Danlos Syndrome. The survival rate is currently 0% and he's only 21. That's worth it to me.


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## farlex85 (Apr 15, 2009)

lisburnni said:


> dont you ever think tho , if something was gonna be discovered it wont of been by now
> 
> is it worth the cost to you personally



You're on a crusade of frugality eh? Don't bother, where there's a hobby, monetary costs are of little importance. F@H and SETI are both neat ideas. I wouldn't ever consider using them, or perhaps I should say I will only run them on side computers, and I won't ever buy anything for them. I just don't like the programs and don't think they are concretely effective. But cleverly the designers of F@H laid out a point system and low and behold it's the biggest thing for computer enthusiasts everywhere since Crysis, it appeals to the gamers and those who simply soup up their rigs. Yeah yeah maybe they'll find cancer cures and aliens and blah blah, but does that really matter when you can get more points than the guy next to you? 

Even so, you can hardly complain. Too much emphasis is put on power conservation. Use up our recourses, it's the only way we will actually adopt better energy policies. Danger is the only thing people react to. It's win win really.


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## thebluebumblebee (Apr 15, 2009)

lisburnni said:


> I have been reading cusotm pc for a couple of years now , read various pc forums etc and seen all the tables for folding , now if im correct its about duplicating dna strands to guess how they manipulate in real life to predict conditions/cancers etc ,
> 
> these tests use CPU and/or GPU at close to 100% usuage for extended periods of time to do this , im just wondering why do people find this worthwhile .
> 
> ...



So, if I'm reading you correctly, you're saying, "What's in it for me?  Why should I be bothered?"  Do you really think that scientists would put this "exercise" over finding a cure?

Folding is:
Something bigger then yourself.
Something that was estimated to take over 40 years on all of the US government's supercomputers!
A way to do more than thumb your nose at life's most frustrating diseases.
Not for those who don't give a hoot about anyone else.

Also, when this was first thought of, most CPU's did not idle down when not under load, so there were "wasted" clock cycles that they put to use.  As for efficiency, I would not be surprised to hear that these GPU clients are more energy efficient than any super computer.

No, it's not okay to tell me how to act, how to think, and what to do!  Your question comes out of political correctness thinking and has obviously hacked me off.


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## BUCK NASTY (Apr 16, 2009)

Wow, what a great topic. I'm sure everyone who folds has their own reasons. I personally lost my mother to colon cancer 12 years ago and this, I use as my primary motivation. It started with one GPU and has grown to as many as 26 clients for me. I spend about $200.00 on electricity for my rigs each month and it's a part time job maintaining them. You could say it's best described as a labor of love and dedication. I do appreciate the points structure for F@H and agree that it's an ingenious design. The points are something tangible that we can relate to as well as being a catalyst for competition on a grand scale. The idea behind F@H captures us and the points/team keeps us here. It's a win/win for everyone, especially if it helps cure a disease that *you* may be afflicted with one day. I appreciate a good exchange on the fundamentals of Folding @ Home, but I will not allow it to become antagonistic.


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## FordGT90Concept (Apr 16, 2009)

Haytch said:


> Cancer :-  Probably the only disease not man made that we need a cure for.


Depends on your definition of "man made."  Thousands of people have died from exposure to radioactive material like the aftermath of the nuclear power plant near Chernobyl (usually manifests itself as thyroid cancer).  There's also been numerous instances of cancers on, and near, land that has been touched by industrial waste.  We also can't forget the effect of high voltage power lines near people for extended periods of time.  Or people that worship the sun a little too much (natural or artificial).

Cancer is your body's way of saying "I've had enough."  More instances of it are man-made than not; however, coroners offices can write off death as "cancer" without investigating what actually killed said person.

And remember, "cancer" is just a classification of an illness (cells out of control) and really doesn't detail anything specific.  Every type of cancer has its own causes.


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## Lillebror (Apr 16, 2009)

F@H is actualy more about how you make general hardware work better for research, how the stuff is calculated and such. Its about speeding up general medical research.

- http://folding.stanford.edu/English/Papers
Just read the papers! Most of em are advanced in software and stuff. All the others are just side effects of doing it.

F@H could at one point, discover a way to speed up calculations of something, so that another group of scientist could grab that code, and use it to find a cure for stuff like cancer faster.

This kind of stuff takes years to discover, not something that just happens everyday. Thats also why theres only about 63 papers, for those 6 or so years they have ben running. It can take up to 8 years from discovery, to get proven that it actualy works.


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## Binge (Apr 16, 2009)

Stanford University and most medical establishments have access to supercomputers?  You might find this shocking but it can be expensive to own/maintain a super computer.  For the small fries that don't have access to these machines, most medical institutions, F@H/BOINC is a godsend for the possibility of computer enhanced medical research.


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## El Fiendo (Apr 16, 2009)

Binge said:


> Stanford University and most medical establishments have access to supercomputers?  You might find this shocking but it can be expensive to own/maintain a super computer.  For the small fries that don't have access to these machines, most medical institutions, F@H/BOINC is a godsend for the possibility of computer enhanced medical research.



This.


As for the perception of it being mainly about the technical side of it, the first years were proving the legitimacy of distributed computing. They've more than proven that now.


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## qubit (Apr 16, 2009)

BUCK NASTY said:


> Wow, what a great topic. I'm sure everyone who folds has their own reasons. I personally lost my mother to colon cancer 12 years ago and this, I use as my primary motivation. It started with one GPU and has grown to as many as 26 clients for me. I spend about $200.00 on electricity for my rigs each month and it's a part time job maintaining them. You could say it's best described as a labor of love and dedication. *I do appreciate the points structure for F@H and agree that it's an ingenious design. The points are something tangible that we can relate to as well as being a catalyst for competition on a grand scale.* The idea behind F@H captures us and the points/team keeps us here. It's a win/win for everyone, especially if it helps cure a disease that *you* may be afflicted with one day. I appreciate a good exchange on the fundamentals of Folding @ Home, but I will not allow it to become antagonistic.



Exactly, the points system was what kept me doing seti@home, before boinc.

I used to love giving my friend false hope of beating me, by hoarding a load of work units and then dumping then on the server when he got close and he used to do the same to me. Then I would add another computer, he might overclock his to within an inch of its life and so on. It made for great fun and competition between us. 

And helped make the electricity company rich.

Then seti went over to the boinc system, that had some kind of aggregated points scoring that didn't directly relate to the work unit you just put in. I tried it, but the crucial fun element was destroyed, so I didn't bother with it any more. And frankly, it's like looking for a microscopic needle that most likely doesn't exist in an overwhelmingly large haystack anyway, so why bother?

I tried F@H when it first came out, but I never got into it. I've now got a shiny new GTX 285, which is second only to the GTX 295 in Folding, so I might try and give Folding another go. I just need to find/retrieve my account details, so that I don't start again from zero.

Your reason for Folding is a noble one, Buck.


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## DrPepper (Apr 16, 2009)

I personally can't justify the price of the electricity. I used to back in the old days like 2002 I think but I gave up with all these hikes in the prices of electricity.


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## SparkyJJO (Apr 16, 2009)

Many people run their PC 24/7.  They aren't on it 24/7 though, so I figure why not let my otherwise idle hardware do something that may benefit?

Of course, with a stack of machines running, well, yeah there is also the addiction to stats 

Kinda hits close to home though, since my dad survived cancer, and have lost some relatives and friends to cancer.


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## Kursah (Apr 16, 2009)

I fold for the hope of donating something out of my rig when I'm not using it, and not paying power (utils included w/rent), I figure when I'm not using my rig it might as well be working for something good. I think some do it for PPD/scores, bench fiends have a good reason to donate this way, some do it for the hope of helping to find cures, some do it because others are, etc.


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## a111087 (Apr 16, 2009)

i didn't read the whole thread so, sorry if that was already mentioned, but, as it was mention somewhere on the web, even if they had an access to all super computers in the world, they still wound't have as much power as with folding.  of course they can't possibly have an access to all these supercompters, so folding is not only the best answer, it is also the only good answer there is.  
whether you fold or not, is up to you.  some people on this forum will tell you "you are wasting out oxygen", if you don't fold.  but you know what? there is no right or wrong, there are only things we choose to see as write or wrong.  how you see them is purely up to you.  this isn't an implication that you shouldn't fold, just a reminder that we can live together without "don't waste our oxygen" comments even though our views are different.  

I don't fold, but i would if i could, but i can't lol...


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## mmaakk (Apr 16, 2009)

Before folding I had a waste of hardware (4 Gaming Rigs) that used to be in use once, max twice a month in my place for the "Famous" *mmaakk's Lan Parties* 

Now I still have group gaming and when my friends ain't here gaming with me, my rigs are still having fun *Gaming Work Units* 

It makes me feel good and the money is worth to spend. Otherwise will be used to buy beer...


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## BUCK NASTY (Apr 16, 2009)

mmaakk said:


> Before folding I had a waste of hardware (4 Gaming Rigs) that used to be in use once, max twice a month in my place for the "Famous" *mmaakk's Lan Parties*
> 
> Now I still have group gaming and when my friends ain't here gaming with me, my rigs are still having fun *Gaming Work Units*
> 
> It makes me feel good and the money is worth to spend. Otherwise will be used to buy beer...



I should take a road trip and drop in on one of your Lan Parties.


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## bogmali (Apr 16, 2009)

BUCK NASTY said:


> I personally lost my mother to colon cancer 12 years ago and this, I use as my primary motivation.




Sounds really familiar Buck.....



bogmali said:


> Gilbert-First off, welcome Secondly, I'm very sorry to hear about your illness. This is the *very same reason I've found myself contributing* to a cause that will eventually find a cure from such diseases. *I lost my dear mother to cancer* (which fuels my motivation) so I somewhat feel your pain.


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## mmaakk (Apr 16, 2009)

BUCK NASTY said:


> I should take a road trip and drop in on one of your Lan Parties.



_V.I.P. pass is yours, and includes:_

- Counter strike

- Rainbow Six Vegas 2

- Unreal Tournament III

- Race Driver: G.R.I.D.

Start practicing at home, call me when you're UP for the challenge!


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## Nosada (Apr 19, 2009)

lisburnni said:


> dont you ever think tho , if something was gonna be discovered it wont of been by now
> 
> is it worth the cost to you personally



Not sure what you meant to say by this, but if you meant "If it was going to be discovered, it would have been by now", that's pretty much how everyone in the middle ages thought. If modern science has proven anything, it's that we don't even have a firm grasp on our own little corner of the universe, or even the largest part of our own little planet, let alone we have a correct view of the bigger picture.

Science is in it's infancy still, and it will remain so until we hand it the resources it requires. Now, I'm not much of a scientist, but I can build a mean folding rig, and if helping out science costs me a few bucks worth of electricity, that's a small price IMHO.

I think a lot of people underestimate the impact F@H can have on the not so distant future. I'm sure, for a lot of us, it'll be the most important endeavour we'll ever be a part of.


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## MilkyWay (Apr 19, 2009)

the idea is that the more pcs are folding the faster the work will get done
apparently folidng protiens makes you able to find the cause of cancer and other things

all i know is you get points for folding


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## Sonido (Apr 19, 2009)

lisburnni said:


> I have been reading cusotm pc for a couple of years now , read various pc forums etc and seen all the tables for folding , now if im correct its about duplicating dna strands to guess how they manipulate in real life to predict conditions/cancers etc ,
> 
> these tests use CPU and/or GPU at close to 100% usuage for extended periods of time to do this , im just wondering why do people find this worthwhile .
> 
> ...



Think of it this way. 1 intelligent man doing a 50 million character calculation vs. the 50 million average people doing it all together. Gets done quicker.


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## alucasa (Apr 25, 2009)

I don't fold, but I run WCG. It's basically the same thing except WCG uses CPU only. Their goals are the same.

I know some who do it for purely e-peen. They simply do it just to get higher numbers and get higher in ranks as if they do in games.

I also know some who do it because their family members passed away due to certain terminal illnesses. They want to help finding cures for it, so they fold/crunch.

In my case, I am the latter. A few of my family members passed away due to certain illness, and therefore, I want to help finding in cures, but I am no doctor or a medical researcher, so I crunch. This is my way of helping. 
The price is higher power bill.

I am fully aware that I might not see the fruits of these researches in my life time, but I hope that one day, yes one day, there will be clear(er) answers for illnesses I crunch for.

Whether they do it for their self-satisfaction or for the greater cause, the point is that they are helping finding cures. For that, I don't care as long as they fold/crunch.


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## Flyordie (Apr 25, 2009)

BUCK NASTY said:


> Wow, what a great topic. I'm sure everyone who folds has their own reasons. I personally lost my mother to colon cancer 12 years ago and this, I use as my primary motivation. It started with one GPU and has grown to as many as 26 clients for me. I spend about $200.00 on electricity for my rigs each month and it's a part time job maintaining them. You could say it's best described as a labor of love and dedication. I do appreciate the points structure for F@H and agree that it's an ingenious design. The points are something tangible that we can relate to as well as being a catalyst for competition on a grand scale. The idea behind F@H captures us and the points/team keeps us here. It's a win/win for everyone, especially if it helps cure a disease that *you* may be afflicted with one day. I appreciate a good exchange on the fundamentals of Folding @ Home, but I will not allow it to become antagonistic.



wow... $200/mnth... I use a wind turbine so it doesn't affect me one little bit.  $300 wind turbine, if I produce surplus one month, the power company pays ME.  So, I do it cause its not hurting me at all and helping someone else in the process.


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## DrPepper (Apr 25, 2009)

Flyordie said:


> wow... $200/mnth... I use a wind turbine so it doesn't affect me one little bit.  $300 wind turbine, if I produce surplus one month, the power company pays ME.  So, I do it cause its not hurting me at all and helping someone else in the process.



I'd get a couple wind turbines then


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## AsRock (Apr 25, 2009)

Don't fold my self cannot afford the electric bill.  Although if i could i don't think i would as i think were doing more harm using all that electricity.

And lets face it if there were ever such a cure for cancer you will not get it unless your rich due to the massive cost.


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## Flyordie (Apr 25, 2009)

My wind turbine cranks out nearly 3800W @ 124V with 20mph winds during the spring and summer... winter I have to use a unique set of blades I had to design which keep ice/snow off of them and with that requires minimum of 18mph winds to even get 300W.  Its geared very well and kept oiled. ;-)
*edit- looked at its peaks for today and it peaked at 3,912W for 3 seconds today... about 40mph wind gust did that I would assume...


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## hat (Apr 25, 2009)

lisburnni said:


> <origional post>



I used to fold because I had a nice dual core processor (oc 2.86ghz) that could handle SMP easily under a nice cooler. I live in an appartment with all utilities included in a flat-rate rent so I can fold my ass off if I wish to. Then I ran the GPU client when that got ironed out because I hada 9800gt at the time. However, when I bought a quad core, I blew up my motherboard with too much voltage and killed the video card with it. Now I have a single core and an 8600gts which I feel are NOT worth folding on because they're just too slow. I could run the single core CPU client, but honestly I feel that's just such a gigantic waste of CPU cycles when there is SMP it's not even worth running anymore, no matter wether you have an i7 965 or a PIII, it's just not worth running. As for my video card I imagine it *could* do it but it's quite slow and I play a ton of games on this pc so it's not even worth running.


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## AsRock (Apr 25, 2009)

Flyordie said:


> My wind turbine cranks out nearly 3800W @ 124V with 20mph winds during the spring and summer... winter I have to use a unique set of blades I had to design which keep ice/snow off of them and with that requires minimum of 18mph winds to even get 300W.  Its geared very well and kept oiled. ;-)
> *edit- looked at its peaks for today and it peaked at 3,912W for 3 seconds today... about 40mph wind gust did that I would assume...



But whats the cost of one of those lol ?..  We have a flat roof on this house so if not to heavy we could have a bunch maybe haha.


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## Flyordie (Apr 25, 2009)

The actual windmill is about 180-200lbs.
The gearing and drive shaft is another 110-120lbs.
The turbine is about 35lbs each (the windmill is powering 6 AmeTek motors, I can add up to 8 I think... but 6 is a good ratio)...


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## El Fiendo (Apr 25, 2009)

Cost, height? Are you in the city (require special zoning)?


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