# Is having a 120-144Hz monitor useful if you can't get 120-144 frame rates?



## Flogger23m (Mar 16, 2017)

Looking for new monitors, and the options in my price range tend to be TN panels with 120-144Hz or IPS panels with 60. Problem is I only have a GTX 1070 and I only buy that price range ($300-350), so getting 120-144 frame rates will not be possible. If I am hovering around 50-70 frame rates in the average game, is there any benefit to having a high Hz monitor? 

Likewise, if I typically get around 60 frame rates, are the other advantages of a TN panel such as a higher refresh rate worthwhile over an IPS panel with better color control?


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## kn00tcn (Mar 16, 2017)

shouldnt you be 60 vsync rather than 50-70?

if you want to have unlocked frames, then yes higher refresh may make tearing or vsync stutters less annoying, but the TN is certainly a problem

also dont think IPS is always better colors at lower price points, you still have the glow (this is not backlight bleed), you may end up 6bit

as an alternative, you may find 8bit VA in this price range (actually, there's a benq 60hz 1080p one for $150, i'd love to see that in person)


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## ruff0r (Mar 16, 2017)

Flogger23m said:


> Looking for new monitors, and the options in my price range tend to be TN panels with 120-144Hz or IPS panels with 60. Problem is I only have a GTX 1070 and I only buy that price range ($300-350), so getting 120-144 frame rates will not be possible. If I am hovering around 50-70 frame rates in the average game, is there any benefit to having a high Hz monitor?
> 
> Likewise, if I typically get around 60 frame rates, are the other advantages of a TN panel such as a higher refresh rate worthwhile over an IPS panel with better color control?


Recently bought an 165hz Monitor even with 1440p. was running 680´s In sli.

To your question : Go for TN 120hz+ even if you cant reach 120fps in all games DO IT . If you sit in front of it games will feel and look like entirely new games. I came from an 5 year old tft Monitor to G-sync Monitor.

OC the snoot out of your 1070 to push more if you need , as long as you dont drop beneath 60fps Gameplay will feel and look way way smoother and more responsive.
IPS has better colors and better viewing angle, but in all if your Monitor right now dosnt bother you with not ALL TRUE blacks you wont really see the difference with IPS.


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## deemon (Mar 16, 2017)

I was big supporter of VA displays even like a month ago still. But since then I have discovered AN UGLY problem with Benq VA displays... horrible unfixable inverse ghosting on some shades of color. Especially disturbing when watching movies or something and some person face blinks black areas between frames on camera movement. Captured images with mobile phone camera when moving a still picture on Benq VA panel. 0 is standing still picture, 1,2,3 are in motion with serious problems.


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## RejZoR (Mar 16, 2017)

Why is there this myth that you need exactly 144fps for 144Hz panel to work? The thing when screen scans the pixels 144 times in a second means your image will be razor sharp no matter how intense the movement in game is, even if it's at only 60 fps. I've already adapted to it, but the day when I switched from old 60Hz gaming screen to 144Hz gaming screen, wow what a difference. In FPS games, no matter how hard you moved mouse around, it was always so sharp you didn't lose any sight over details in the game world during mouse motion or player movement. And the fact you get WAY less image tearing even without any special technologies to eliminate that since you'll rarely be going past the refresh rate with framerate.

I now wonder what 240Hz screens are like


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## Mussels (Mar 16, 2017)

deemon said:


> I was big supporter of VA displays even like a month ago still. But since then I have discovered AN UGLY problem with Benq VA displays... horrible unfixable inverse ghosting on some shades of color. Especially disturbing when watching movies or something and some person face blinks black areas between frames on camera movement. Captured images with mobile phone camera when moving a still picture on Benq VA panel. 0 is standing still picture, 1,2,3 are in motion with serious problems.
> 
> View attachment 85196 View attachment 85197 View attachment 85198 View attachment 85199



same problem with a samsung 4K IPS HDTV, apart from the viewing angles i'd rather have a 144hz screen that wont smear/ghost on me :/


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## silapakorn (Mar 16, 2017)

Anything above 60fps looks better on my 144hz monitor, comparing to a 60hz one.

In fact, even in games that are internally locked at 60fps, like Assassins' Creed Revelations, it still runs more smoothly on 144hz gsync monitor, especially when you pan the camera around.
I'm not sure which is responsible for this smoothness: 144hz, gsync, or both, but I know that I won't go back to 60hz monitor ever again.

BTW, IPS doesn't produce better color. It has wider viewing angle and that's it. The biggest con of IPS is that black isn't deeply dark as it should be. 
In worst case you'll see black as grey, which ruins horror films and games for me.


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## basco (Mar 16, 2017)

https://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates

if you have a high hz monitor this is a good test for it  with 30 to 60 is a big diff and if you have 120 the ufo is not blurred


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## Vayra86 (Mar 16, 2017)

deemon said:


> I was big supporter of VA displays even like a month ago still. But since then I have discovered AN UGLY problem with Benq VA displays... horrible unfixable inverse ghosting on some shades of color. Especially disturbing when watching movies or something and some person face blinks black areas between frames on camera movement. Captured images with mobile phone camera when moving a still picture on Benq VA panel. 0 is standing still picture, 1,2,3 are in motion with serious problems.
> 
> View attachment 85196 View attachment 85197 View attachment 85198 View attachment 85199



Depends a lot on the quality of your VA panel too. VA tends to have a slower G2G response in darker shades of gray and brown than it does on brighter shades, which can cause this effect. I have also experienced that this 'smearing' kind of effect is mostly visible when the monitor is COLD. As the panel warms up from prolonged use (say 15-30 mins), pixel response does improve, in my case up to the point that it's not noticeable. My VA panel ALSO has a strobing backlight, which eliminates the issue entirely.

There is a wide quality range within VA and I went for a somewhat more expensive one, it definitely pays off bigtime.

FWIW every panel tech on the market has its inherent drawbacks, its for everyone to figure out for themselves what they find most important. All things considered though, for me its VA > IPS > TN preference without any doubt. Paying high prices for TN even at higher resolutions is something I would NEVER do, even if they push 240hz native I wouldn't give a damn about TN. I'll never go back to that having seen how good VA and IPS can be. The slightly faster response times are definitely not worth it, and that is all TN has going for it besdes price.

To OP: if you like high quality settings, go for the 60hz IPS and never look back. If its 1080p, 120hz or better is worth considering if you are willing to take a step back to 'High' settings, because a 1070 will definitely push over 100 fps then. If you often play in a dark environment, thiink twice about IPS and look for a panel with little to no IPS glow, because it will annoy the crap out of you otherwise. Note that the newer Dell Ultrasharps for example, all have significant IPS glow, a white-ish hue in the corners of your view.

There is a lot to choose, if you have to make too many tradeoffs for your liking because of budget, I would certainly recommend to save up another month or two, monitors last long and you will be sorry in the end if you don't. Also be sure to weed out the marketing fluff, screw adaptive sync technologies for example, and pay the money for good panel specs like static contrast, refresh rate, resolution, and panel tech.


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## unsmart (Mar 16, 2017)

basco said:


> https://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates
> 
> if you have a high hz monitor this is a good test for it  with 30 to 60 is a big diff and if you have 120 the ufo is not blurred



WTF that hurts my eyes guess I need a new monitor.


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## erixx (Mar 16, 2017)

Now, something that I have not seen is a performance comparison of same hardware, same game and then benches at 60hz, 120 hz, 140 hz.

One can only think about worse performance the more hertz you throw at it.... Or?


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## Gasaraki (Mar 16, 2017)

The short of it is yes, most of those not 60Hz monitors are either Freesync or GSYNC and will synchronize the FPS with the variable refresh rate of the monitor so images will be silky smooth at almost any fps.


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## erixx (Mar 16, 2017)

great, but not the answer! 

if you are "silky smooth" at 60hz and you go 120hz, you will get not as much silk as before!


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## Vayra86 (Mar 16, 2017)

erixx said:


> great, but not the answer!
> 
> if you are "silky smooth" at 60hz and you go 120hz, you will get not as much silk as before!



Depends on what settings you lock at. If you can keep steady above 100 fps, then you'll definitely feel more silky on the 120hz panel. If you dip to 50 all the time, then no.

Many high refresh panels also have 100hz and lower modes, so you can adapt anyway, and high refresh panels also tend to exhibit less tearing across the board.


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## P4-630 (Mar 16, 2017)

Flogger23m said:


> If I am hovering around 50-70 frame rates in the average game, is there any benefit to having a high Hz monitor?



Not really I think.
Currently I'm looking at 1440p myself, I also own a GTX1070, I will 90% sure buy a 60Hz IPS panel,
since I like to play my games at high/ultra settings so I don't see my fps much above 60 with my current card I think, with AAA titles at least.

I probably buy the Acer H7 H277HU , 27" IPS 4ms 60Hz monitor.


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## n-ster (Mar 16, 2017)

silapakorn said:


> BTW, IPS doesn't produce better color. It has wider viewing angle and that's it. The biggest con of IPS is that black isn't deeply dark as it should be.
> In worst case you'll see black as grey, which ruins horror films and games for me.



Ummm, IPS does have better colour reproduction. It has a higher bit display, it covers a much larger area of the sRGB and Adobe RGB colour spaces, usually much more accurate in terms of calibration, gamma etc... It also has much deeper blacks and better contrast, TN panels are pretty awful with them. IPS glow around the edges of the screen don't make the whole screen look gray lol. 

Personally had both a 60hz Korean IPS monitor and a 144hz lightboost BenQ monitor... Not having motion blur was great, but I just really couldn't handle how bad the blacks were and the colours just didn't seem right. I had it for a year or so, ended up selling it though, even as a secondary non-gaming monitor, the blacks/contrast/colours just bothered me too much. 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


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## Flogger23m (Mar 16, 2017)

Vayra86 said:


> Depends a lot on the quality of your VA panel too. VA tends to have a slower G2G response in darker shades of gray and brown than it does on brighter shades, which can cause this effect. I have also experienced that this 'smearing' kind of effect is mostly visible when the monitor is COLD. As the panel warms up from prolonged use (say 15-30 mins), pixel response does improve, in my case up to the point that it's not noticeable. My VA panel ALSO has a strobing backlight, which eliminates the issue entirely.
> 
> There is a wide quality range within VA and I went for a somewhat more expensive one, it definitely pays off bigtime.
> 
> ...



Which VA monitor are you using? Any decent VA panels you can recommend me that are around $400? I do like to max out settings, and plan on upgrading to 2560x1440 so I don't think a GTX 1070 will keep up. Exception is some of the MP titles I play, BF4/1, probably Rising Storm 2 Vietnam, all of which I can get around 100+ frame rates in at max settings. RS2 is an unknown though as it is still in beta, but I can't imagine it being very demanding. 

I am currently using a Samsung IPS (S27D360) and I don't find the back glow to be _that _bad, but I may have gotten used to it. It was a big step up from the low end TN panels I used before which had horrible blacks/grays. Are there any particular models of IPS that do not have much IPS glow? I was looking at some Dell IPS monitors but have read a few people complaining about back glow, which you seem to reinforce. Anyone else use one that can comment on something like the Dell U2715H? 

Ultra wides are too expensive, and I don't like the curves most have otherwise that would have been an option. Slightly off topic, but if I were to find an ultra wide 21:9 at 3440x1440, would it be possible to downscale to 16:9 at 2560x1440 with no loss to image quality? Obviously there would be black bars on the side of the monitor, but for those GPU intensive games it would be a worthwhile compromise to save some FPS while giving me more work space for things like Photoshop.


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## silapakorn (Mar 17, 2017)

n-ster said:


> Ummm, IPS does have better colour reproduction. It has a higher bit display, it covers a much larger area of the sRGB and Adobe RGB colour spaces, usually much more accurate in terms of calibration, gamma etc... It also has much deeper blacks and better contrast, TN panels are pretty awful with them. IPS glow around the edges of the screen don't make the whole screen look gray lol.
> 
> Personally had both a 60hz Korean IPS monitor and a 144hz lightboost BenQ monitor... Not having motion blur was great, but I just really couldn't handle how bad the blacks were and the colours just didn't seem right. I had it for a year or so, ended up selling it though, even as a secondary non-gaming monitor, the blacks/contrast/colours just bothered me too much.
> 
> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.



Exactly. That's why I trust my eyes more than the hype of "IPS has better color". Now you tell me which one has better black and more vibrant color. IPS is on the left, TN is on the right.






I'm not working in photography and use my monitor solely for gaming, so color accuracy means squat to me. I adjust the color to my liking. End of story. And IPS still gives worse black & contrast no matter how I adjust it.

And yes, blacks on my IPS are mostly grey, that's the fact. Even if you blame IPS glow for this it still doesn't fix my problem, because IPS glow is not considered a defect and I can't return it for that.

All your fancy facts are useless for me because blacks on my monitor still suck. So I have to conclude that IPS sucks. Seems fair, right?

Oh and I'm not the only person who think blacks on IPS suck:
https://hardforum.com/threads/what-is-the-deal-with-ips-monitors-poor-contrast-glow.1865219/
https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/916373-pc/68045384
https://hardforum.com/threads/sick-of-ips-glow-looking-for-best-tn-monitor-under-200.1891295/
http://www.overclock.net/t/1593086/ips-glow-is-getting-worse-making-games-almost-unplayable


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## Delta6326 (Mar 17, 2017)

I have the Samsung C24FG70 1080 and it's a great monitor can change the easily 60, 100 ,120, 144. It is a VA panel with Quantum Dot, and it makes a difference. Has fantastic colors and great blacks.
Skyrim with Darker Nights mod is scary!
You can definitely tell the difference over 60hz.
I get around 70-120FPS in pCars, it has made me a better driver, as cars are much smother. I would say I've noticed it the most in racing games.
I just wish it had a built in Crosshair for FPS...
I've seen it dip to $300, thats what I got it for.


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## erixx (Mar 17, 2017)

Regarding colors, if you tune it and have a decent monitor it can be set to more or less to your likes. You still need to have a couple of profiles for games, photos, or office work. I always like to go for the monitor with sharper text drawing.

Let me reformulate my doubt: does your GPU have more workload when you change from 60hz to 120hz? Is there extra "work" to be done by the GPU, or is the whole process done inside the monitor, so not affecting the GPU performance?
I have a monitor with build in FPS counter (monitor side) and I use Afterburner's FPS counter (GPU side of things). They give different results. My monitor is 60hz. When the GPU delivers 60 fps and monitor reads also says 60hz, game fluidiy is so so.
When Afterburner onscreen says 200 FPS and monitor says 60hz it is superultrafluid.

So when we play at 120hz monitor rates, for sure it's great looking. Does this mean more work/stress for the GPU than the same system running at 60FPS/60Hz? It must be.

I have a 60hz 32" monitor, I believe that same size but 120hz or higher monitor will demand more work from the GPU, is this correct? I didn't think this was a complex question! I am way behind in the backgrounds of all this stuff.


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## Mussels (Mar 17, 2017)

erixx said:


> Regarding colors, if you tune it and have a decent monitor it can be set to more or less to your likes. You still need to have a couple of profiles for games, photos, or office work. I always like to go for the monitor with sharper text drawing.
> 
> Let me reformulate my doubt: does your GPU have more workload when you change from 60hz to 120hz? Is there extra "work" to be done by the GPU, or is the whole process done inside the monitor, so not affecting the GPU performance?
> I have a monitor with build in FPS counter (monitor side) and I use Afterburner's FPS counter (GPU side of things). They give different results. My monitor is 60hz. When the GPU delivers 60 fps and monitor reads also says 60hz, game fluidiy is so so.
> ...



higher Hz requires no more power. higher FPS does.

120FPS at 60hz requires same power as 120FPS at 120hz.

does 120FPS require double the power of 60? yes.


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## Vego (Mar 17, 2017)

i am waiting for 32" quantum dot monitor from asus
TN is crap
VA is smaller crap
IPS has bleed and no blacks

OLED is the future
you dont need more than 100hz


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## Mussels (Mar 17, 2017)

Vego said:


> OLED is the future
> you dont need more than 100hz



oh i cant wait til 600hz is the bare minimum and eveyrone laughs at this in hindsight, because the internet is forever


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## qubit (Mar 17, 2017)

Vego said:


> OLED is the future
> you dont need more than 100hz


OLED suffers burn-in and lifetime issues, so it's not ready for prime time.

You most certainly do need more than 100Hz.


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## Vya Domus (Mar 17, 2017)

I genuinely cannot understand how a game that runs at 60fps looks somehow better on a 144hz panel than on a 60hz one. Am I missing something ?


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## ruff0r (Mar 17, 2017)

Vya Domus said:


> I genuinely cannot understand how a game that runs at 60fps looks somehow better on a 144hz panel than on a 60hz one. Am I missing something ?



We could tell you all day long lower input lag higher refresh rates alone just by the panel makes a different but what i think for you would be the best test, just sit down in front of your 60hz monitor and then do the same game with a 144hz TN 1ms monitor side by side even you will see the difference and feel it.


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## Vya Domus (Mar 17, 2017)

ruff0r said:


> We could tell you all day long lower input lag higher refresh rates alone just by the panel makes a different but what i think for you would be the best test, just sit down in front of your 60hz monitor and then do the same game with a 144hz TN 1ms monitor side by side even you will see the difference and feel it.



I wasn't talking about response time. The game is updated at 16ms intervals and displayed , still , at 16ms intervals, the monitor doesn't magically reduce that or reduces the input lag. I have gamed on a 144hz monitor , there is obviously an increase in smoothness and response time when you go higher and higher , but  the scenario I was talking about is with a game that doesn't come close to 144hz , there should be no extra "smoothness" so to speak , at least I can't find a logic reason for that.


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## qubit (Mar 17, 2017)

Vya Domus said:


> I genuinely cannot understand how a game that runs at 60fps looks somehow better on a 144hz panel than on a 60hz one. Am I missing something ?


It all depends on whether it's vsync locked or not.

Vsync on, 60Hz looks better, off, 144Hz looks better.

On my smartphone now, so can't go into details.


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## ruff0r (Mar 17, 2017)

Vya Domus said:


> I wasn't talking about response time. The game is updated at 16ms intervals and displayed , still , at 16ms intervals, the monitor doesn't magically reduce that or reduces the input lag. I have gamed on a 144hz monitor , there is obviously an increase in smoothness and response time when you go higher and higher , but with a game that doesn't come close to 144hz , there should be no extra "smoothness" so to speak , at least I can't find a logic reason for that.


Look Budy, i came from an nearly 5 year old tft Monitor with 60hz, i had to run lower 60-70fps with my new Monitor until i got my 10180-1080ti , and even at those lower fps it was a night and day smoothness and response difference, alone the less smearing ghosting holy lord, i thought i would go blind or so but it was only the old Monitor. Well even at lower fps the panel still just has a higher response time instead of your ordinary Monitor like Pixel update wise from the Panel that is difference


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## Vya Domus (Mar 17, 2017)

qubit said:


> It all depends on whether it's vsync locked or not.
> 
> Vsync on, 60Hz looks better, off, 144Hz looks better.
> 
> On my smartphone now, so can't go into details.



I am well aware of that , but that's simply because with Vsync off you allow those sub 16ms frames to be displayed (and no tearing on 144hz) , you get a similar effect on a 60Hz panel too with Vsync off and something like Fast Sync , it only truly makes a difference if the game consistently stays above 60 fps.


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 17, 2017)

I own a Dell 1440p 144hz GSYNC monitor and games are butter smooth even using a gtx970. Not only is the image always sharp but it puts less strain on my eyes which is good because I am getting old.


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## Vya Domus (Mar 17, 2017)

ruff0r said:


> Look Budy, i came from an nearly 5 year old tft Monitor with 60hz, i had to run lower 60-70fps with my new Monitor until i got my 10180-1080ti , and even at those lower fps it was a night and day smoothness and response difference, alone the less smearing ghosting holy lord, i thought i would go blind or so but it was only the old Monitor. Well even at lower fps the panel still just has a higher response time instead of your ordinary Monitor like Pixel update wise from the Panel that is difference



I am not negating the use or advantages of a 144hz monitor I already stated it's better , we all know that. You are probably well above 60fps at all times and that card can hold consistent frame times that's why you see than night and day difference. Go ahead and use a low end card that struggles at 1080p60fps and you will see that night and day difference vanishing , with OP's 1070 that's clearly not the case and I would consider a high refresh rate monitor is worth it his case.

My opinion is that if your system can only do 60fps and nothing more, it's just simply not worth spending the money for such a thing.


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## Mussels (Mar 17, 2017)

Vya Domus said:


> I genuinely cannot understand how a game that runs at 60fps looks somehow better on a 144hz panel than on a 60hz one. Am I missing something ?



high refresh panels will be guaranteed to have less smearing and ghosting than 60hz panels, even at 60hz.


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## Black Haru (Mar 17, 2017)

Mussels said:


> high refresh panels will be guaranteed to have less smearing and ghosting than 60hz panels, even at 60hz.



This pretty much. If you were to take a 60hz panel and a 144hz panel that had otherwise identical properties,  there would be no difference. The fact is that refresh rate is just one surface spec for monitors, and using it as your only metric can confuse things. Sort of like trying to compare the 0-60 times of different cars with just horsepower numbers, there is a lot more going on.


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## qubit (Mar 17, 2017)

Vya Domus said:


> I am well aware of that , but that's simply because with Vsync off you allow those sub 16ms frames to be displayed (and no tearing on 144hz) , you get a similar effect on a 60Hz panel too with Vsync off and something like Fast Sync , it only truly makes a difference if the game consistently stays above 60 fps.


You actually do get tearing with 144Hz refresh. Basically, no vsync = tearing, no ifs or buts. EDIT You get judder too, but it's a lot less noticeable because they're happening faster.

All that happens is that at the higher refresh it's a lot less noticeable since it's much more fleeting and a 60 fps video still looks smooth, with just little judders visible if one looks closely and a bit of tearing at times, too.

I know this from experience too, since I've had a 144Hz monitor for the last 5 years and have looked closely at the images under different conditions.

FastSync works in a different way and shouldn't be compared to vsync on/off. This manages to give you the best of both worlds, but at the cost of making the GPU work harder and more vram use due to those discarded frames. Killer feature in my opinion and well worth upgrading to Pascal for this alone. I'm curious to see if AMD's Vega will have a similar feature.


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## Mussels (Mar 17, 2017)

dont forget frame rate caps, you can get a 144hz monitor with Vsync off, and cap FPS at 143 and enjoy the bliss.


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## Bucknuts77 (Mar 17, 2017)

I didn't need a new monitor, but decided to buy a Viotek GN27C 27 from Amazon last night. VA panel, free sync, 144hz, 27" and was $250. It's a new brand but over all ratings from all there monitors are pretty good. Mine is supposed to come in Monday. Viotek  also has a 32" for $350. Amazon a good place if don't like or broke for returns.


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## londiste (Mar 17, 2017)

most high refresh rate monitors come with either freesync or gsync. 
provide you have a gpu from matching manufacturer, these are the real killer feature of these monitors


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 17, 2017)

londiste said:


> most high refresh rate monitors come with either freesync or gsync.
> provide you have a gpu from matching manufacturer, these are the real killer feature of these monitors



exactly. no point IMO in buying a 144hz monitor unless you are using gsync or freesync.


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## Black Haru (Mar 17, 2017)

Easy Rhino said:


> exactly. no point IMO in buying a 144hz monitor unless you are using gsync or freesync.



I disagree, at least on the budget catagory. Freesync maybe, but gsync has that green premium. Besides, most budget monitors with adaptive sync have very limited range. Freesync that only works between 48-90htz doesn't do you any good if ypu are pulling 100+ frames.


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## unsmart (Mar 23, 2017)

Bucknuts77 said:


> I didn't need a new monitor, but decided to buy a Viotek GN27C 27 from Amazon last night. VA panel, free sync, 144hz, 27" and was $250. It's a new brand but over all ratings from all there monitors are pretty good. Mine is supposed to come in Monday. Viotek  also has a 32" for $350. Amazon a good place if don't like or broke for returns.



 This damn thread  made me buy the same monitor as you, should get it in a few days. I OCed my asus to 70hz and enabled freesynce[only works at 60hz though] and wow what a difference 10hz makes for eye strain. The real difference was in gaming though where I can actually hit stuff now. I think it's more of a individual thing but 60hz has always bothered my eyes, maybe because I have better than average eye site. Hopefully I won't be stuck in game land after I get it.


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## unsmart (Mar 23, 2017)

Black Haru said:


> I disagree, at least on the budget catagory. Freesync maybe, but gsync has that green premium. Besides, most budget monitors with adaptive sync have very limited range. Freesync that only works between 48-90htz doesn't do you any good if ypu are pulling 100+ frames.



 CRU tool lets you adjust freesync range not sure how well it works on any given monitor. You can also use it to enable freesync on a lot of monitors with dvi,dp or hdmi.


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