# New screen, new headaches...



## DiogoCDS19 (May 30, 2015)

Hi guys,

Long time I haven't posted anything. I'll try to make it short so no one falls asleep 

So I had 2 19" LCD (TN), last week one of them broke so I had to get another one. Didn't feel like buying another 19" so I got a 21.5" LED LCD. 
Here is where the problem starts. (I know calling it led is wrong but that will just help explaining)
So the led is extremely bright and vivid compared to the lcd. After some hours looking at it my head starts hurting and also my eyes, Even at lower brightness my eyes and head hurts.
I have no idea what might be causing this. 

Tried lowering the brightness and other settings like contrast and gama but it doesn't work.
The led doesn't flicker so thats not the problem.

I never had a led lcd so I don't know if all led are like this (so bright/white) or the monitor is just bad quality.

I got the 2 screens next to each other like I had the 2 19" before, but now in 1 the resolution is 1920x1080 and the other 1440x900.
I do notice that when I look from the lcd to the led my eyes have to "adjust" just like when your in the dark and you turn on the light, because the led is so bright.

Any ideas what I can do or the led is just bad quality and I have to live with it ?
(The models are in my specs)

Thanks


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## Frag_Maniac (May 30, 2015)

If you've already adjusted the brightness down (try backlight too if it has one spearately), you should also adjust contrast, esp if it's way higher in conrast than what you're used too. Some high contrast displays on the higher settings can make anything white look too glowy and bright.

It's also become common knowledge recently that digital displays put out a fair amount of artificial blue light, which can cause eye strain, blurred vision, even headaches. Displays with excessive motion blur can add to the headaches, or even cause nausea.

Some displays now are made with built in blue level adjustment to help counter this efect, like BenQ. There are however glasses made now that are designed to block harmful excessive artifical blue light. I bought a pair of these gaming glasses recently made by Gamma Ray fo $20 on Amazon, and they work pretty well.

If along with your headaches you get, tired eyes, blurred vision, and red or dry/itchy eyes, it could be excessive blue spectrum exposure. People that work in front of displays all day are starting to use glasses like these. They also have clear ones for general PC use vs gaming, but the yellow tinted ones block blue light better.

What I like about Gamma Rays is they are slightly more pale yellow than brands like Gunnar, and WAY less expensive. They're so pale you can't really see any yellowing of colors. Yet you can hold them up to see light reflections on them, and the refelected light looks blue, so you know they're blocking blue light. The frames are also pretty durable for their price. Plus the lenses pop out and can be replaced with prescription ones.


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## kn00tcn (May 30, 2015)

one more thing... reduce sharpness

the size sounds like it might be too small, i prefer the pixel size of 23/24" for 1080p/1200p

are you in a completely dark room? you should always have some ambient light BEHIND the monitor & generally around the room

are you also sure it doesnt flicker? if it has some kind of anti-ghosting option, try turning it off


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## DiogoCDS19 (May 30, 2015)

Thanks for the help
Yeh I was looking at some glasses to help block that blue light but not sure what to pick. Don't really want to spend much money unless I have no choice.

Things don't really look small to be honest but that could be the cause, I don't know.

Thought about the room light too, today during the day windows open, room full of light and still got headache, just like when theres no light.
As for the flicker unless theres another way to test I'm pretty sure it doesn't flicker, used a camera to test.
A friend brought his led lcd laptop that flickers when we look at it through the camera. (Also when his brightness is at 100% it doesn't flicker, but under 100% if flickers. thought would be the same with my screen but mine doesn't flicker in any way)

Was having headache before dinner, then it quickly went away while I was eating. Now, 10 minutes after sitting in front of screen the headache is back..

*Frag Maniac*, Which glasses did you get ? Could you link them to me ?


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## Frag_Maniac (May 31, 2015)

DiogoCDS19 said:


> *Frag Maniac*, Which glasses did you get ? Could you link them to me ?



They're called the GAMMA RAY FLEXLITE GR003. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BQ7KBV4/?tag=tec06d-20

They appear to be the most purchased model of gaming glasses on Amazon, and have a 4.5 out 5 rating. The frame material is a memory flex polymer that is very break resistant and holds it's shape. They look kinda nerdy, but I couldn't justify spending over 3 times as much for the more stylish Gunnar MLG Phantoms, which have stainless steel frames and silicone nose pads, but some say the frames are very flimsy and pads can require aligning.

I've also worn aviator sun glasses before whose pads left indentations on my nose and can over time be less comforatable than these, which merely have a shaped spot on the frame for your nose. The frames are light enough and nose area slightly curved so the edges don't touch your nose, so they're quite comforatable. I've also worn them at length under headphones while gaming with no issues (one of the main reasons I got the Flexlite model, along with durability).

BTW, these glasses come in a pretty nice hardshell hinged case too. The micro sized lense cloth they come with I don't use because it's too smooth to be very useful. I just line the case with it. Those lime green plush microfiber cloths available in a pack at Walmart or Sam's Club are much better, and useful for lots of things. You may have something similar in your area perhaps.

Only thing is, the frames are very glossy black, so if you have any light behind you, you can see it reflecting off the frames. With my room lighting I don't have that problem while gaming or general PC use. It's also said they need cleaning more often than Gunnars, though that may be a comparison to Gunnar's steel frames (they also make plastic frames), which may not statically attract dust as much as plastic ones can. I say "as much as" because they both have polycarbonate vs glass lenses anyway.

I also have an 18" flourescent under cabinet lamp I bought at Lowes that I place on a wood block behind my 32" TV to have ambient light emenating from the center of the TV. I also made a right angle cardboard hood for it and taped it to it to evenly distribute the light around the back of the TV (otherwise at the top the light shoots way higher than at the sides). Lighting like that helps a lot when playing darker games like horror genre stuff. Less straining to see, and way more contrast without the tradeoff of overly bright whites.

You can get them with slight maginfication (1.25x, 1.75x, etc), but I chose no magnification, and am glad I did. Gamma Ray also has a model called the Essential for $15 if you don't opt for the Flexlite frames and hardshell case.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00G0578C2/?tag=tec06d-20


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## OneMoar (May 31, 2015)

I have the S24D300 doesn't seem overly bright but going from a shit TN panel to s-PLS is a huge improvement so you may not be used to it It took me a day of fiddling to get it dialed up
here is how  I have mine configured atm
mega DCR off
sharpness 54
brightness 80
contrast 65
magic angle off
magic upscaling off
gamma mode 3
color normal
HDMI Blacklevel LOW
response time fastest

'overclocked' to 75hz
getting the refresh-rate up may help you might be sensitive to in-plane switching's inherent subliminal flicker
download cru and pixleclock patcher and see if it will do 75hz
a final note this monitor looks like ASS over DVI HDMI FULL RGB is the way to go


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## newtekie1 (May 31, 2015)

DiogoCDS19 said:


> Yeh I was looking at some glasses to help block that blue light but not sure what to pick. Don't really want to spend much money unless I have no choice.



Try adjusting the color settings on the monitor.  Some monitors even have a "Low Blue Light" option in the color settings.  Even if your's doesn't, just turn down the blue.
On my monitor when I select Low Blue Light mode it sets the colors to:

Red: 71
Green: 69
Blue: 39


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## Mussels (May 31, 2015)

look for a colour 'temperature' setting and adjust that


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## natr0n (May 31, 2015)

try reading mode perhaps


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## FireFox (May 31, 2015)

It happens to me but it was when I switched from 1920 X 1080 to 2560 × 1440 and From 60Hz to 120Hz or 144Hz.


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## Aquinus (May 31, 2015)

DiogoCDS19 said:


> After* some hours looking at it* my head starts hurting and also my eyes, Even at lower brightness my eyes and head hurts.


Ergonomically, you shouldn't be staring at a monitor for over 45-60 minutes without looking away at least for a couple minutes.

It may not be the display but rather you straining your eyes. Using a monitor in a dark room is also bad for your eyes, so make sure there is plenty of ambient lighting and look away regularly.

With that said, I went from two TN & CCFL panels (28" @ 1920x1200, 22" 1680x1050,) to 3x Dell S4320Ms (which are IPS & LED displays,) and never encountered what you described. However staring at either monitor for extended periods of time can give me a headache.

Side note: The difference in brightness on the displays could exacerbate it, but it's not like LED displays are always brighter than CCFL displays, it just tends to be the case that contrast is much better (darker blacks, whiter whites,) and that newer tech is... well, "better" (brighter).


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## DiogoCDS19 (May 31, 2015)

Thank you all once again for trying to help me out!

Well yesterday I tried setting up the power saving mode to 50% and the overall "light" got reduced, can´t even change the brightness in this setting now.
I think it helped a lot. Today I'm going to give it a try with that setting on to see if I get any headaches.

The main problem here with the color/contrast settings is that I'm trying to make this screen match the other one because I'm so used to certain games have certain colors.
But the TN LCD is warmer than the LED so even by changing the color temperatures I cannot match it perfectly.
So when I try some settings I make sure I try those games and see how they look like.
With that 50% power saving mode the color comparison isn't bad, looks pretty much the same, still the tn lcd looks a bit warmer.

But I'm going to give it a try and I'll reply back later in the day.

As for staring at the screen for too long, previously I never had any headaches or eyes getting strained. And I used to look at the screen for like 6 hours straight without any pain or discomfort. Now with this led after like 10/20 minutes my head starts hurting right away.


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## OneMoar (May 31, 2015)

a IPS/PLS is never going to match a TN TN's are terrible


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## DiogoCDS19 (May 31, 2015)

OneMoar said:


> a IPS/PLS is never going to match a TN TN's are terrible


Yeh I know but been so many years that now the change is hard.
Also I don't know anymore lol, now even the 19" (TN) gives me headache ahaha. Was looking at it for a while doing something on the browser and headache started just like on the led... So confused now...
A friend of mine got some gunnars, I'm going to give them a try to see if it works for me.


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## Frag_Maniac (Jun 1, 2015)

Couple things I forgot to mention. If you have any automatic brightness or contrast settings on the display, turn them off. They tend to reek havoc with colors, cause extra wear and tear, and can actually be harder on your eyes depending how poorly designed they are (none of them work worth a damn really).

Also, don't forget in trying to come close in color matching that TNs are only 6 bit color depth, while non TN panels (AV, IPS, PLS) are 8 bit or more. There's also a thing called chroma, some displays can do 4:4:4 chroma, which means you can use full RGB in your pixel format setting of your GPU control panel, and the display will not only make full use of it, it will show red detail better, esp close red lines as you would see in red text. It's not just text that it makes look better though.

So when you do your color settings, try going through the different GPU pixel format settings with a suitable multi color image onscreen and see which they look best with. Chances are though, that you will be able to push much closer to full RGB with the LED, while the TN will start looking too color saturated, but it might help you find the right balance point.


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## DiogoCDS19 (Jun 1, 2015)

Frag Maniac said:


> Couple things I forgot to mention. If you have any automatic brightness or contrast settings on the display, turn them off. They tend to reek havoc with colors, cause extra wear and tear, and can actually be harder on your eyes depending how poorly designed they are (none of them work worth a damn really).
> 
> Also, don't forget in trying to come close in color matching that TNs are only 6 bit color depth, while non TN panels (AV, IPS, PLS) are 8 bit or more. There's also a thing called chroma, some displays can do 4:4:4 chroma, which means you can use full RGB in your pixel format setting of your GPU control panel, and the display will not only make full use of it, it will show red detail better, esp close red lines as you would see in red text. It's not just text that it makes look better though.
> 
> So when you do your color settings, try going through the different GPU pixel format settings with a suitable multi color image onscreen and see which they look best with. Chances are though, that you will be able to push much closer to full RGB with the LED, while the TN will start looking too color saturated, but it might help you find the right balance point.



It doesn't have auto brightness or contrast so its ok.
Yeh I did that and I matched the color as much as possible without looking bad.
Like I said before today I had the power saving option on for 50% which seems to be different than changing the brightness. Although the screen looks a bit dim so kinda ruining the purpose, but I rather have it that way than heavy headaches. Today went better than yesterday, not so bad on the headaches but still got that "heavy head" feeling and I don't have any horns (lol).
Next week friend going to bring his glasses and I'll give them a try for some days to see if I can get rid of the headaches.

Thank you and everybody for putting so much effort to help me with this. This is why I love this community!


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## kn00tcn (Jun 1, 2015)

i would calibrate with http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/ rather than matching the old monitor (also recalibrate the old monitor)

what i want is accuracy, white to be as white as possible, the least amount of crushing as possible, as correct sharpness as possible, etc

i really cant imagine what you're feeling & why... what if you tried extended usage with other people's monitors?

i also got a crazy idea, what if it's the power circuitry that's putting out certain frequencies (of sound or any other 'radiation')? i guess for this test, you would have to sit near the monitor powered on but leaving it covered so you dont see any light (careful not to overheat it if you use a blanket or something)


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## Mussels (Jun 1, 2015)

when i went from a 22" to a 46" (look, the 46" cost less than the 22" so don't judge) i had headaches all the time - until i changed my room lighting to an LED globe as well. for whatever reason, that fixed it for me.


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## R-T-B (Jun 1, 2015)

OneMoar said:


> a IPS/PLS is never going to match a TN TN's are terrible



Curious how you feel about VA panels OneMoar...  They are basically a step below IPS in refresh rate, with the advantage of better contrast.  Or so I hear.

As to the OP's problem, My display is bright as hell, and I don't get headaches...  I guess it's a personal thing.  Sorry to hear about your issues and the only advice I can give is the same as the above...  frequent breaks and maybe lowering brightness or getting some special glasses.



Mussels said:


> when i went from a 22" to a 46" (look, the 46" cost less than the 22" so don't judge)



*Looks up from 39" LED TV

And I thought I was nuts...


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## DiogoCDS19 (Jun 1, 2015)

I used to be able to be in a dark room (only screens as light source) before without any eye/head pain or even eyes getting red, this for years. Now after getting the led screen I can't.
I guess my eyes are not so tolerant with the led lcd so I'll have to change some things and/or some habits. 
Things in a white background are freaking pain, just like looking at the sun. 
Using power saving mode 50% (lowest possible) everything else is not as bright as before and is ok but the whites.... dam so painful.
I'm hoping that the glasses work or dam I'll need to buy new eyes 

Thanks guys!
I'll give new details when I try the glasses for some days, friend coming over tomorrow.


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## Cvrk (Jun 2, 2015)

https://justgetflux.com/
i had the huge headaches and eye problems. this helped and i can not imagine my life in front a computer without it.
your welcome


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## kn00tcn (Jun 3, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> Curious how you feel about VA panels OneMoar...  They are basically a step below IPS in refresh rate, with the advantage of better contrast.  Or so I hear.


IPS is nice with angles & vibrant colors... but man is it awful with darks! at least the low end IPS (yes there are multiple types, there's a reason we have $150 IPS monitors & it's not pretty)

i've been on VA for 7 years & counting, the 'worst' thing is greys getting brighter off center, but otherwise you dont have to deal with the annoying IPS glow


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## R-T-B (Jun 3, 2015)

kn00tcn said:


> IPS is nice with angles & vibrant colors... but man is it awful with darks! at least the low end IPS (yes there are multiple types, there's a reason we have $150 IPS monitors & it's not pretty)
> 
> i've been on VA for 7 years & counting, the 'worst' thing is greys getting brighter off center, but otherwise you dont have to deal with the annoying IPS glow



Pretty much what I think of my humongous (for a gaming screen) Panasonic TV I use, which is basically a LG VA panel inside.  Viewing angle can be an issue too, but I tend to sit right in front of it so no biggie.


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## kn00tcn (Jun 3, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> Pretty much what I think of my humongous (for a gaming screen) Panasonic TV I use, which is basically a LG VA panel inside.  Viewing angle can be an issue too, but I tend to sit right in front of it so no biggie.


LG makes VA!? i thought only AU (benq) does... theoretically samsung does/did before


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## R-T-B (Jun 3, 2015)

kn00tcn said:


> LG makes VA!? i thought only AU (benq) does... theoretically samsung does/did before



This is third party information, I haven't actually cracked my screen to find out.  I was told it was likely a "LG VA panel" by a best buy tech who knew way too much in hindsight for his job position, so probably BS.

It's definitely a VA panel by performance however.


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## Mussels (Jun 3, 2015)

kn00tcn said:


> IPS is nice with angles & vibrant colors... but man is it awful with darks! at least the low end IPS (yes there are multiple types, there's a reason we have $150 IPS monitors & it's not pretty)
> 
> i've been on VA for 7 years & counting, the 'worst' thing is greys getting brighter off center, but otherwise you dont have to deal with the annoying IPS glow



i've got a 40" VA and a 46" IPS, and the VA is terrible for blacks. games with 'night' are horrible - fallout 3 was the one that killed it for me, anywhere dark was either 'shimmery' from too high backlight, or impossible to see. IPS screen doesn't have this issue.


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## kn00tcn (Jun 3, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> This is third party information, I haven't actually cracked my screen to find out.  I was told it was likely a "LG VA panel" by a best buy tech who knew way too much in hindsight for his job position, so probably BS.
> 
> It's definitely a VA panel by performance however.


positive it's not TN? any secret osd menus? maybe some review figured out the panel



Mussels said:


> i've got a 40" VA and a 46" IPS, and the VA is terrible for blacks. games with 'night' are horrible - fallout 3 was the one that killed it for me, anywhere dark was either 'shimmery' from too high backlight, or impossible to see. IPS screen doesn't have this issue.


what models & prices? i would love to see high end IPS (i have heard some could have a polarizer that may solve the glow issue that's always seen on cheap ones, PLS is the same)

i dont understand how there is shimmering, maybe that's the wrong word or some setting is enabled

i'm all about fewest features (no dynamic contrast crap, other than local backlighting i suppose), as accurate as possible within the limits of a monitor's settings, & 0-255 RGB (tv standards mean 16-235, such a mess when some game devs dont know wtf they're doing when encoding intro videos)

i have also heard about the supposed better contrast with VA that RTB mentioned, but i dont believe that with my 'desktop monitor' VAs, black is dark grey & i'm not gonna deny that, but at least it's relatively correct when 0-255 greys are displayed (it's very important that there's no crushing so you know you will see all details, i dont care if i notice the first world problem of the bezel being darker than the screen, my eyes & mind will adjust, plus i'm rarely in an unlit room)


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## Mussels (Jun 3, 2015)

kn00tcn said:


> i dont understand how there is shimmering, maybe that's the wrong word or some setting is enabled
> 
> i'm all about fewest features (no dynamic contrast crap, other than local backlighting i suppose), as accurate as possible within the limits of a monitor's settings, & 0-255 RGB (tv standards mean 16-235, such a mess when some game devs dont know wtf they're doing when encoding intro videos)
> 
> i have also heard about the supposed better contrast with VA that RTB mentioned, but i dont believe that with my 'desktop monitor' VAs, black is dark grey & i'm not gonna deny that, but at least it's relatively correct when 0-255 greys are displayed (it's very important that there's no crushing so you know you will see all details, i dont care if i notice the first world problem of the bezel being darker than the screen, my eyes & mind will adjust, plus i'm rarely in an unlit room)



get a non LED LCD, get a black image and turn the brightness up, look closely at the pixels. its not 'black' - its a glowing black, or as you said above a gark grey.


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## R-T-B (Jun 3, 2015)

> positive it's not TN? any secret osd menus? maybe some review figured out the panel



I mean anything is possible, but it looks like it performs similar to a VA.

I've tried finding reviews, mostly in vain.  It's in my system specs for reference.  It's fairly new and aparently a best buy exclusive, further making it hard to find reviews on.

Panasonic's own spec sheets aren't much help either.

It does appear to have good blacks though, so regardless of what it is, I like that.  No dark greys here!  Awesome for Elite Dangerous.


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## DiogoCDS19 (Jun 3, 2015)

Hi guys!

Got some "good" news!
Friend brought me his glasses (gunnar) yesterday for me to try for the whole week. Yesterday I used them the whole time while I was looking at the screens for several hours and had no headaches or any eye pain. I was kinda shocked, so I took them off for a while and after like half hour the headaches are back. I put the glasses back on and some time later all was good again.
I said "good" news because now it means I'll have to spend some money.
I wouldn't mind going for those gamma rays the problem is that the shipping cost for me make the glasses cost like the gunnars that I can buy here locally. 
So I'll keep this glasses the whole week just to make sure they work and if no more headaches or any eye pain I guess I'll have to buy one of these.

As for f.lux as someone suggested I'm going to give it a try but, even if it changes the colors of the screen, isn't the screen still shooting that artificial blue light ?
I'll give it a try and post at the end of the week.
Thank you all!


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## kn00tcn (Jun 3, 2015)

Mussels said:


> get a non LED LCD, get a black image and turn the brightness up, look closely at the pixels. its not 'black' - its a glowing black, or as you said above a gark grey.


my monitor is CCFL from 2008 & the other one i can use is LED (with no flickering), everything is fine in the sense that i dont consider dark grey a 'defect', as long as it stays steady


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## Frag_Maniac (Jun 4, 2015)

DiogoCDS19 said:


> Friend brought me his glasses (gunnar) yesterday for me to try for the whole week. Yesterday I used them the whole time while I was looking at the screens for several hours and had no headaches or any eye pain. I was kinda shocked, so I took them off for a while and after like half hour the headaches are back. I put the glasses back on and some time later all was good again.



I understand for some it's going to come down to what price you can get them for and what the shipping costs, but part of the reason I decided on the Gamma Rays is they are noticeably more pale tint. Basically I didn't want any noticeable color change, and I didn't want to HAVE to wear them all the time. The Gamma Rays are just effective enough, without spoiling your eyes so much with blue-free light, that it becomes unbearable to go without them.

There are times I forget to put my glasses on, whereas I've read with Gunnars, some have said they get you to the point where you always have to wear them, or you might even experience more pain than you did before without them. So be careful what you wish for. Sometimes adequate is better than overkill.


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## DiogoCDS19 (Jun 8, 2015)

Thanks for the reply back on trying to help @Frag Maniac
Well after almost 1 week with the Gunnar's I can say I'm happy with them. At first I was worried with the color change as well but after some minutes of wearing them you actually forget about it and you don't see the yellow filter anymore.
I can use the screen at full power without power saving settings and at "normal" colors that I would like to have.
Also the glasses make the colors look perfect to me, not so blue like I said before. No more head/eye pain like before when I wasn't using them.

But yeh I might get the Gunnar's, the Gamma Ray's shipping cost is too high. Can get the Gunnar's locally for the same price.

Thank you all once again!


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## Frag_Maniac (Jun 8, 2015)

DiogoCDS19 said:


> But yeh I might get the Gunnar's, the Gamma Ray's shipping cost is too high. Can get the Gunnar's locally for the same price.


Yeah, then I'd say go for the Gunnars. Especially if they work well for you in testing.

What model are you looking at? I thought the MLG Phantoms looked nice.


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## DiogoCDS19 (Jun 8, 2015)

Frag Maniac said:


> Yeah, then I'd say go for the Gunnars. Especially if they work well for you in testing.
> 
> What model are you looking at? I thought the MLG Phantoms looked nice.



The ones I tried are the Vayper. I liked them, fit my face perfectly.
Most likely gonna get those.


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