# Problem with my Dad's PC



## alexp999 (Apr 6, 2008)

Update(5th my 08):

Okay I am now looking for a good stable mobo that runs sli and a q6600. I dont want 680i or 780i due to the problems they have with quad cores (hence why im looking for a new one for my dad - see sig)
I like the look of the 650i's or 750i's and I believe that excluding the 790i the 750i is the best nvidia sli chipset at the moment. but cus he has Sli with PCI-E 1.0 Gfx cards i need a mobo that the MF has managed to get dual x16 sli working. the ones I have come up with so far are:

http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=123-YW-E175-A1
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=1567&l1=3&l2=11&l3=495&l4=0
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=11&l3=627&l4=0&model=2033&modelmenu=1

Let me know what you think, about the ones I've found or any others.

I always leave thanks for useful posts.  Any help appreciated.

Cheers everyone!!! 

______________________

UPDATE (4th May 08):
We are looking at getting another board. Are the 650i's more stable than the 680i's?

I have just looked at the Asus P5N32-e Sli Plus.

http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=1567&l1=3&l2=11&l3=495&l4=0

it uses the 650i but a different SB which allows the mobo to have full dual x16 pci-e slots.

We are only looking to OC to about 3Ghz. I'm trying to find a mobo for about £120 or less, that will have dual x16 support quad core processors PROPERLY (stupid 680i LT), and is "approved" by TPU (you lot), lol!

its replacing the mobo from my dad's rig in my sig, and has to work with everything else there.

What do people think?

Cheers.

*I have just done a little more looking around and apparently Asus' 750i mobo also has dual x16 sli compatibility?
*
*Anyone got this board, or heard anything bout it?
*
*http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=11&l3=627&l4=0&model=2033&modelmenu=1
*
*is it true?
*
*How come asus are getting round the nvidia limitations??
*
*Which of these asus' would be better? Or neither  (only thing i can see is that 650i gives gfx cards more room to "breathe")
*
*Cheers.

_________

UPDATE: Never mind, the F*king W*nkrs @ ebuyer.com won't do anything except replace it with exactly the same model!
I won't be buying anything else from them again. And I advise no-one else on here buys from them either!

_______

Okay, you can see my dad's PC in my sig.
I have tried for ages to sort this out. 
Every now and again, his computer wont post, then when you press reset its fine?? WTF 
I was wondering whether you guys had any ideas or experience of the odd boot failure. Like one in 20 boots sometimes, then it can do it 3 in a row, then it can go months and its fine.

I feel so  atm,

I have tried memtest, and thats fine, never any instability in windows, its the most stable build he has ever ad apart from these odd boot failures!!

Lol.

Any ideas, any at all.

Thanks.


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## jbunch07 (Apr 6, 2008)

is it a blank screen no post or do u get an error message of some sort?


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## alexp999 (Apr 6, 2008)

jbunch07 said:


> is it a blank screen no post or do u get an error message of some sort?



Complete blank screen, no post, no beeps, nada.


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## oli_ramsay (Apr 6, 2008)

Maybe the Mobo BIOS needs updating?  Or maybe a weak PSU?


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## alexp999 (Apr 6, 2008)

oli_ramsay said:


> Maybe the Mobo BIOS needs updating?  Or maybe a weak PSU?



What a SilverStone Strider 750W weak?? And his bios is right up-to-date


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## Morgoth (Apr 6, 2008)

i had this problem in the past on my old Pentium 4 but i have no idea how i fixed that :S


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## francis511 (Apr 6, 2008)

I would have said psu too. Have you got another one you can switch it with ?


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## 3870x2 (Apr 6, 2008)

Ive never heard of silverstone strider.  It is of course a hardware or bios issue, im going to put my money on hardware.  May sound wierd, but it worked for me: disconnect and reconnect all the cables.
Also, make sure its pretty well dusted out, although im sure that you know that.  This seems like a connection problem, and also like the guy stated before, it really does sound like a power issue, might, just for kicks, connect another power supply, even if its only 450 watts, it looks like that system only needs that much anyway, depending on how many LEDs and other crap you have connected.


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## alexp999 (Apr 6, 2008)

Only mine, shall I add a PSU tester onto my order that I have just done??
This one?:

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/132489

Or

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/99889

Would it tell me if PSU is dodgy?? How do they work??

How come it only does it on some boots but never under load or stress tests??

Soz for all questions, never had a problem with pus before

Cheers.


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## alexp999 (Apr 6, 2008)

3870x2 said:


> Ive never heard of silverstone strider.  It is of course a hardware or bios issue, im going to put my money on hardware.  May sound wierd, but it worked for me: disconnect and reconnect all the cables.
> Also, make sure its pretty well dusted out, although im sure that you know that.  This seems like a connection problem, and also like the guy stated before, it really does sound like a power issue, might, just for kicks, connect another power supply, even if its only 450 watts, it looks like that system only needs that much anyway, depending on how many LEDs and other crap you have connected.



You never heard of Silverstone?? I thought they were one of the best??
I was thinking of stripping his build and rebuilding it to make sure everything is secure. Do you think it is worth a try??


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## alexp999 (Apr 6, 2008)

This is the PSU he has:

http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_contents.php?pno=st75f&area=usa


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## FilipM (Apr 6, 2008)

I've had the same problem once with my rig, I tried everything, then a simple bios reset with the button near the battery was needed. The good thing was, I remembered most of the settings in the bios. If you can try that, do it, it worked for me.


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## JrRacinFan (Apr 6, 2008)

File_1993 said:


> I've had the same problem once with my rig, I tried everything, then a simple bios reset with the button near the battery was needed. The good thing was, I remembered most of the settings in the bios. If you can try that, do it, it worked for me.



If you read his OP, he has been doing that. He wishes to completely repair it.

I am kind of lost with this question. Are you still able to get it to post or now it won't with anything you try?


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## intel igent (Apr 6, 2008)

is it OC'd?


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## alexp999 (Apr 6, 2008)

File_1993 said:


> I've had the same problem once with my rig, I tried everything, then a simple bios reset with the button near the battery was needed. The good thing was, I remembered most of the settings in the bios. If you can try that, do it, it worked for me.



Tried that, and left the battery out for a while.  .

What do people think about the PSu testers. Anyone use one, could it show up a problem?? Or would it be ok some times and not on others like the Pc is??

Cheers.


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## alexp999 (Apr 6, 2008)

JrRacinFan said:


> If you read his OP, he has been doing that. He wishes to completely repair it.
> 
> I am kind of lost with this question. Are you still able to get it to post or now it won't with anything you try?



No its fine atm.
Like I say, every now and then, he turns it on and it doesnt post. Then he presses reset and it reboots and its fine.
Most of the time it powers on and posts as normal.


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## alexp999 (Apr 6, 2008)

intel igent said:


> is it OC'd?



Have tried overclocked, underclocked, stock. It still does it!


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## 3870x2 (Apr 6, 2008)

just because i havent heard of silverstone doesnt make it the best, its just saying that I have a limited knowledge of PSU, and all i know is that ive got a RAIDMAX, and everyone knows what a raidmax is, so i got one.
and yes, i do think that is worth a try.

and you dont really need a psu tester, just try the psu from your rig.


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## alexp999 (Apr 6, 2008)

3870x2 said:


> just because i havent heard of silverstone doesnt make it the best, its just saying that I have a limited knowledge of PSU, and all i know is that ive got a RAIDMAX, and everyone knows what a raidmax is, so i got one.
> and yes, i do think that is worth a try.



Soz, lol. mind you I have never heard of RaidMax.


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## intel igent (Apr 6, 2008)

no need to triple post, you can multi quote in a single post or edit your posts 

are ALL the drivers up to date?

does it do it with 2 stix of RAM? i used to have cold boot issues with my BH-5 back in the day 

what are your 24/7 settings including volts?

i dont really trust those PSU testers too much myself


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## alexp999 (Apr 6, 2008)

intel igent said:


> no need to triple post, you can multi quote in a single post or edit your posts
> 
> are ALL the drivers up to date?
> 
> ...



Drivers are upto date but what affect would that have on boot??

Havent tried 2 sticks, but why would it pass memtest on a ram problem??

I have tried so many different settings. I does it on defaults too. Only think I have noticed is that on Nvidia monitor the 
HT (SPP-MCP)
and
nforce
voltages are red. But there is no where to adjust them. not in the bios. And in ntune they are greyed out.


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## JrRacinFan (Apr 6, 2008)

Im starting to beleive it has something to do with cacheable AKA"Shadow" video bios options and possibly a poor 6 pin PCIe connection to the video card. 

Try connecting a different 6pin PCIe to the video card if you have one. Attempt narrowing down which item are on which 12v rail and put your video card on a seperate if it isnt already.

Then, if you are able to attempt disabling shadow video bios. See if that helps out.


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## alexp999 (Apr 6, 2008)

JrRacinFan said:


> Im starting to beleive it has something to do with cacheable AKA"Shadow" video bios options and possibly a poor 6 pin PCIe connection to the video card.
> 
> Try connecting a different 6pin PCIe to the video card if you have one. Attempt narrowing down which item are on which 12v rail and put your video card on a seperate if it isnt already.
> 
> Then, if you are able to attempt disabling shadow video bios. See if that helps out.



Just out of interest where you get the idea from. Will certainly give it a go.

Thanks.

EDIT: I still don't get why it only does it on some boots and not others or under load.


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## JrRacinFan (Apr 6, 2008)

No video could seem like a no post issue.


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## alexp999 (Apr 6, 2008)

JrRacinFan said:


> No video could seem like a no post issue.



But I know it is not going in cus fans dont spin down and there are no beeps. Or would a mobo failed to post without a GFX card.

Only other thing that has made me think of is a setting called something like Nvidia GPu ex. I'm gonna have another lok through his bios now...


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## JrRacinFan (Apr 6, 2008)

Heck it could even be a combination of that and the psu. Most mobos will give a beep error out the case speaker if no onboard/discreet video is installed. Others will just not post.


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## alexp999 (Apr 6, 2008)

JrRacinFan said:


> Heck it could even be a combination of that and the psu. Most mobos will give a beep error out the case speaker if no onboard/discreet video is installed. Others will just not post.



K well I will have a look through his bios in a bit. See if anything in there could be causing it. What do you think about that Antec PSU tester I posted?

http://www.antec.com/uk/productDetails.php?ProdID=77203


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## JrRacinFan (Apr 6, 2008)

Wouldn't bother with it. Pretty sure since you CAN get it to post after a few attempts that power supply is good.

Just curious, What speed and timings are on the XMS2's?


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## alexp999 (Apr 6, 2008)

JrRacinFan said:


> Wouldn't bother with it. Pretty sure since you CAN get it to post after a few attempts that power supply is good.
> 
> Just curious, What speed and timings are on the XMS2's?



Stock is supposed to be 675Mhz 4-4-4-12 @ 1.9v
But even setting it at 666Mhz 5-5-5-15 @ 1.8v didnt help.

The pain with this is that I might not know for a month whether the setting I have changed has worked. And with there being so many variables on a computer...


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## JrRacinFan (Apr 6, 2008)

LOL, Only reason why I asked is because I was looking at some new ram.


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## intel igent (Apr 6, 2008)

have you tried 2.0v or 2.1v for the RAM?


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## alexp999 (Apr 6, 2008)

intel igent said:


> have you tried 2.0v or 2.1v for the RAM?



How come?? It is above the MF's recommended. Would that cause these odd failed boots. Never had any probs with that ram at that voltage on my Pc.


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## intel igent (Apr 6, 2008)

might need a little extra Vram since youre using 4 stix

might also need a little extra MCH (n/b?) volts as well

whenever you run four stix it adds extra strain on the mem controller

you asked for help and im trying


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## alexp999 (Apr 6, 2008)

intel igent said:


> might need a little extra Vram since youre using 4 stix
> 
> might also need a little extra MCH (n/b?) volts as well
> 
> ...



No I just wondered why the RAM needs more voltage than MF says when there are 4. I can understand a higher MCH voltage, will try that too.

Appreciate the help, gives me a few things to try when he finishes what he doing on it.


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## ShadowFold (Apr 6, 2008)

I had the same problem. Turns out one of my rams sticks were dead.


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## alexp999 (Apr 6, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> I had the same problem. Turns out one of my rams sticks were dead.



Wouldnt something like that have showed up in memtest tho?


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## intel igent (Apr 6, 2008)

even though they specify 1.9v as stock they will run at 2.0v-2.1v without a hitch

dont go crazy and use huge amounts of voltage but a small bump should get ya stable

like i said earlier i had old school BH-5's (rated 2.8v stock IIRC) that would not boot at anything less than 3.0v, and someone help me if i left the PC off for more than 10min i had to reboot the sucker like 5-6 times atleast before she would pass POST and load windows. i used to run those stix at 3.4v 250 2/2/2/5 until one stick died, guess thats what happens when you substitute your stock intel cooler for a RAM cooler  cold boot was also a known issue with those IC's

good luck with it and keep us posted


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## alexp999 (Apr 6, 2008)

intel igent said:


> even though they specify 1.9v as stock they will run at 2.0v-2.1v without a hitch
> 
> dont go crazy and use huge amounts of voltage but a small bump should get ya stable
> 
> ...



Well I have upped the NB voltage, I will set the ram at 2.0v and all I can do is wait for it to possibly go wrong again, it could be tomorrow or it could be next month.

Unless anybody else got any ideas...

...Watch this space  ...


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## alexp999 (Apr 6, 2008)

The other thing I noticed was that when I had 2 gb of the same ram, at the same speed and timings and voltage. i scored 5.9 for the memory in vista, my dad only scores 5.3 with 4gb. WTF??


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## xu^ (Apr 6, 2008)

i have a very similar issue on my main pc ,every now and then ,completely random where the black windows xp screen comes up and scrolling logo appears ,it simply freezes there ,i hit reset and its fine.
tbh i gave up mnths ago trying to find out wat it was lol

system is prime stable and is fine under load ,baffles me as well but ive just put it down to "one of those things"


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## alexp999 (Apr 6, 2008)

xubidoo said:


> i have a very similar issue on my main pc ,every now and then ,completely random where the black windows xp screen comes up and scrolling logo appears ,it simply freezes there ,i hit reset and its fine.
> tbh i gave up mnths ago trying to find out wat it was lol
> 
> system is prime stable and is fine under load ,baffles me as well but ive just put it down to "one of those things"



Yeah, just wierd how it does it at boot sometimes tho.
I see you got the E2160 upto 2.6ghz. I could never get it stable their lol! nice 1 
Your ram should come tomorrow. Not sure if you already knew but to get it to run at 1.9v like corsair say. After a lot of surfing I found out that the setting in the Asrock Bios for Ram voltage. The settings are High: 1.95v, Norm: 1.8v, Low: 1.65v. So if you want to run at 4-4-4-12 720Mhz (based on CPu OC) then it should work great on high.

Good luck, hope I get this sorted for my dad tho, its being a real PAI!


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## Mussels (Apr 6, 2008)

i too say PSU... its some form of cold boot bug, which is either PSU (not that likely, with a 750W unless its failing) bad ram settings/voltages (its possible the board takes a few seconds to get the requierd settings, causing a lockup on the first try - try raising the voltage 1-2 notches on ram) and lastly... who the F knows. its always a pain when this happens.


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## alexp999 (Apr 6, 2008)

Mussels said:


> i too say PSU... its some form of cold boot bug, which is either PSU (not that likely, with a 750W unless its failing) bad ram settings/voltages (its possible the board takes a few seconds to get the requierd settings, causing a lockup on the first try - try raising the voltage 1-2 notches on ram) and lastly... who the F knows. its always a pain when this happens.



Like I say I have pushed up NB and RAM voltage 0.1v above normal so hopefully. It tries to boot so fast tho. My mobo is a bit slower takes it time to power on.  only time will tell!


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## 3870x2 (Apr 8, 2008)

thats nothing to do with the speed of the motherboard, rather the firmware settings of whatever is connected to your motherboard, be it videocard, etc.. which may have a pause setting on it, most likely a bios issue though.  BTW nice looking computer case.


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## alexp999 (Apr 16, 2008)

It has done it today.   .

What could possibly be cuasing this??

A bad PSU?? How would I know??


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## alexp999 (Apr 16, 2008)

I've just checked the voltages in the bios. All the voltages look okay except the 3.3v is showing up as 3.2v.
And just now his computer woudlnt restart properly.

Does this sound PSu related?

cheers!


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## alexp999 (Apr 16, 2008)

Okay, I have just tried a cheapo 650W PSU in his system and compared the voltages:

...........Silverstone.........Cheapo

3.3v:........3.22v..............3.30v
3.3v Dual:..3.22v.............3.30v
12v:.........12.08v............12.24v
5v:...........4.99v..............5.16v

Let me know what you think,

Any help greatly appreciated.

Thanks!!!


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## Exavier (Apr 16, 2008)

I've heard about this so much with 680i related boards, maybe it's just a reference problem? D:


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## alexp999 (Apr 17, 2008)

Exavier said:


> I've heard about this so much with 680i related boards, maybe it's just a reference problem? D:



How do you mean??


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## Exavier (Apr 17, 2008)

an actual problem with the board itself due to its' design, not any of your secondary components...but then, it could be most anything..


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## paybackdaman (Apr 17, 2008)

I had this problem on a 478 board....but the processor was missing like 3 pins...=/. Don't know what the heck could be wrong with yours. I read through the posts and was thinking RAM voltages, but you obviously tryed that, and got no results.

However, it looks like your dad is in need of an upgrade for a mobo...
*edit*
On that cheapo PSU were you running the two 8800GTS's?


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## alexp999 (Apr 17, 2008)

paybackdaman said:


> I had this problem on a 478 board....but the processor was missing like 3 pins...=/. Don't know what the heck could be wrong with yours. I read through the posts and was thinking RAM voltages, but you obviously tryed that, and got no results.
> 
> However, it looks like your dad is in need of an upgrade for a mobo...
> *edit*
> On that cheapo PSU were you running the two 8800GTS's?



No, didnt want it to blow up on me, lol.

The comparison of voltages is:
CPU
Mobo
1x GFx card
Snd card
2 hdd drives
2 fans

EDIT: Why you so upgrade for mobo?? I sit bad, worth RMA?? Why would a faulty mobo only do this every now and then, never under load or snything. I'm so stumped. If I  anymore, I won't have a head left, lol!

Thing is, with it being so many possibilities if XFx say mobo is fine they could charge me for taking it back. Then I still wont know. Like my dad says, this is the one disadvantage of self builds. You cant send the whole thing back as one. You gotta finda the one component being a PIA!!!


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## paybackdaman (Apr 17, 2008)

No, i'm just saying get a new mobo. It is just the slightest bit dated, and in the computer world it is time to update.

Anways, used the PSU calculator and it says that only 424w (give or take) is needed to run your computer at %90 load...try your PSU in there with both cards connected. check the voltages again. See if it really is a faulty PSU.


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## alexp999 (Apr 17, 2008)

paybackdaman said:


> No, i'm just saying get a new mobo. It is just the slightest bit dated, and in the computer world it is time to update.
> 
> Anways, used the PSU calculator and it says that only 424w (give or take) is needed to run your computer at %90 load...try your PSU in there with both cards connected. check the voltages again. See if it really is a faulty PSU.



Does 3.2v seem a bit low then?? i spose comapring to a cheapo is more difficult cus they have badly regulated voltages. Will try my new one in there tomorrow.

how is his mobo dated? more upto date than mine isnt it? What would he achieve in updating it? Other than the possibility of solving his problem

BTW:
it has just done it again now. For some reason his PC can go for ages (like a month) and its fine, then it will start doing it a couple of times in a row.

Does that point at a particular component?


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## alexp999 (Apr 17, 2008)

Okay, to get 100% cpu usage across all 4 cores. i had to run orthos (using first 2 cores) then I have two instances of Prime 95 going, each using a core.

It is okay after 10 mins. I have now started 3dmark06 ontop of that.

If that doesnt test the psu i dont know what will.

The other thing I noticed is that speedfan and CPUID'd HWmonitor reads 10.59v on the 12v reading. And 10.04v under 100% CPu load. Will see what it is while 3dmark was running and get back to you.

Do you think it is a dodgy sensor? how accuarte r others peoples sensors on 680i LT mobos??

Cheers.


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## Mussels (Apr 17, 2008)

restarts that are well spaced out could be temps. Its possible that your usage varies or room temps vary enough (forget to open a window, leave the door shut etc)

Whats been said about the mobo is simply that 680i and 780i suck, ESPECIALLY on quad cores and with 4 sticks of ram - your dads system is a horrible combination of how to bring out the 680i's flaws.

When checking voltages, dont use the bios. use a multimeter and look for two things.

At idle (say in the bios, in case you short something and it resets ) check what the voltages are - and if its steady. If you have 3.25v (acceptable) but it changes for no reason up and down to 3.3 - that does NOT mean its good.

Check the same with a steady load (ATI tool + OCCT works for me) and see if its stable there as well - unstable voltages are just as bad as low voltages.

In my opinion the only good SLI boards are Nforce 4 and 790i - NF4 is a bit old (and the wrong socket ) and 790i need DDR3 ram.

I know sleep mode was dodgy on my brothers old 680i, is your dad using hibernate or sleep mode occasionally? that coudl be causing problems, especially if he leaves it long enough for it to automatically try sleep mode (at times he could leave it on for 24 hours but use it every hour, other times he could leave it unused for 8 hours and it tries to sleep, for example)

you posted while i typed: NO motherboard sensor is accurate. never ever trust them, get a multimeter already.


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## alexp999 (Apr 17, 2008)

Mussels said:


> restarts that are well spaced out could be temps. Its possible that your usage varies or room temps vary enough (forget to open a window, leave the door shut etc)
> 
> Whats been said about the mobo is simply that 680i and 780i suck, ESPECIALLY on quad cores and with 4 sticks of ram - your dads system is a horrible combination of how to bring out the 680i's flaws.
> 
> ...



Well its never warm in this house. He doesnt use sleep or hibernate. I noticed in the bios that it is using 1T for the ram. Though setting it to 2T made no difference. It passed memtest on both.
do you think it is worth leaving two sticks of ram out for a bit?? incase it is that? I dont think it is his PUS when its fine under heavy load.

Can atitool work on an nvidia. Or do you just mean the fluffy cube bit works?

Will add it to the list of stress programs see if I can make it crash.
I take it that if its fine with 100% CPU/RAM/GPU load its not the PSU??

Also how do I check with a multimeter. Dont want to fry his components. And do you have any suggestions on one. Cus we dont have one. 

Cheers for your help.

Keep the ideas coming...


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## Mussels (Apr 17, 2008)

definitely get a multimeter.

What you do is connect the black terminal to any black wire from the PSU, or to an earthed part of the case (say, if the case is metal a DVD bay might work)

connect the red terminal to anything to see the voltage its at - yellow wire is 12v, red is 5v, and orange (you can shove it in the back of the main ATX connector if you're careful) is 3.3v

ATI tool works on nvidia cards, yes i mean the fuzzy cube. OCCT is a quad core capable CPU testing program (be sure to actually change its settings, it defaults to CPU and ram and high priority - you want CPU only on low) and run that and ATI tool at the time. All four cores will be in use, as well as the GPU(s)

Something not in the specs and not mentioned at all - hard drives. for all we know his HDD is overheating or dying - swap it for a spare perhaps, and keep an ear out for any odd noises it makes or changes in its behaviour (slower to start up, noisier, random clicking etc)


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## alexp999 (Apr 17, 2008)

Its still going fine with atitool added to the lot. but it didnt not install properly, something about unsigned kernel driver. So it is running but only testing GPU2 (guessing so by the temps on it).

I know sensors are inaccurate but look at HWmonitor:







I would have expected the system to crash if that were true.


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## alexp999 (Apr 17, 2008)

Mussels said:


> definitely get a multimeter.
> 
> What you do is connect the black terminal to any black wire from the PSU, or to an earthed part of the case (say, if the case is metal a DVD bay might work)
> 
> ...



Thanks.

He has two Seagate SATA drives in RAID. One 7200.10 and one 7200.11. Both 160GB 8mb cache.


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## alexp999 (Apr 17, 2008)

The other thing I find wierd is that we can't use the new nvidia monitor. We are still using ntune. The new one locks explorer and the only way out is to start task manager and end the nvidia monitor?? 

Does anyone else have this trouble?.


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## alexp999 (Apr 17, 2008)

Okay, if we say it is just the mobos general crappiness.

What would you say is the best thing to replace it with??

Needs to be as cheap as possible. But take a q6600 and 2x16 SLI.

An RMA wouldnt go through would it?? if the board is not "faulty" just flawed??

Cheers.


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## francis511 (Apr 17, 2008)

790 i for quad + sli but they`re not cheap.


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## paybackdaman (Apr 17, 2008)

a fresh install of windows might have to be done here. When you change motherboards OS's freak out. At least mine did. (if you didn't know this already ) Anyways I would go with a 790i board. They have their kinks too, but not as many as the 680i series. Any of them are fine, just look for the features you require, and see if the price is right.


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## alexp999 (Apr 17, 2008)

paybackdaman said:


> a fresh install of windows might have to be done here. When you change motherboards OS's freak out. At least mine did. (if you didn't know this already ) Anyways I would go with a 790i board. They have their kinks too, but not as many as the 680i series. Any of them are fine, just look for the features you require, and see if the price is right.



do you reckon it is worth trying his setup out with only 2 sticks of ram??
The 790i's are really expensive. Do you think his GFx cards would be bottlenecked by getting a 750i?
Or are they just as crap as the 680i?

Why has nvidia made such a buggy chipset?
It was there top of the range chipset till the 7 series.
I dont get it. 

I take it SLI can only be enabled on an nvidia chipset then?

Cheers.


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## jbunch07 (Apr 18, 2008)

alexp999 said:


> do you reckon it is worth trying his setup out with only 2 sticks of ram??
> The 790i's are really expensive. Do you think his GFx cards would be bottlenecked by getting a 750i?
> Or are they just as crap as the 680i?
> 
> ...


in short 750 is supposed to be better than 680
and u can install sli on other chipsets like intel but not ati....well u can but its buggy and doesnt work well...requires allot of work and tweaks


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## Mussels (Apr 18, 2008)

680i and 780i are the same chip, with a different MCP (southbridge)

Basically its just old, remember it was made for the original core 2 duos, and support for quad cores and higher FSB chips was tacked on later.

750i is the same thing with less PCI-E lanes, more or less.

as far as i can tell, the Nv chipsets work fine in a 'standard' environment - stock clocks, generic ram, 2x1GB at most. They just go flaky very fast - hell OCZ tony (bigtoe) one of the bigger OC'ers and modders out theres MSN message was "god i hate 780i" for a while.

To be honest unless you're gaming at 1080p or 1920x1200, dont bother with SLI - just buy a bigger initial card. If you are gaming at that res, grab a 3870x2 or 9800GX2


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## alexp999 (Apr 18, 2008)

Mussels said:


> 680i and 780i are the same chip, with a different MCP (southbridge)
> 
> Basically its just old, remember it was made for the original core 2 duos, and support for quad cores and higher FSB chips was tacked on later.
> 
> ...



Okay, well he already has 2 GFX cards for SLI now, he currently plays @ 1680x1050, and when he gets the plasma tv hes saving for he will be playing at 1080p. I'm going to try having just 2x1gb instead of 4x1gb in his system if it fails to post again. If that sorts it, do you think it would be more stable with 2x2gb?

So the 750i and 650i are the same with just a new SB?

Which is why the 790i is the best cus there wasnt a 690i. So they have actually developed a new chipset!

Next time he upgrades he's porbably gonna go for the ATI route. We feel really let down by nvidia.

The goal of getting an nvidia mobo was try to make it more stable!! lol.


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## DaedalusHelios (Apr 18, 2008)

Are you using NVraid?

This happened with my 780i until I used different raid drivers. 

ATi boards are just as bad. 

*Go intel board next time.* 

Intel chipsets are golden these days.


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## alexp999 (Apr 18, 2008)

DaedalusHelios said:


> Are you using NVraid?
> 
> This happened with my 780i until I used different raid drivers.
> 
> ...



He is using raid yeah,
but RAID drivers??
How could drivers cause problems with the PC booting though?

What drivers did you change to?

Was it exactly the same then? Unexplainable boot failures every now and then?


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## Mussels (Apr 18, 2008)

the only things that can affect booting is the mobo and related hardware not booting - unfortunately Nv chipsets just seem to have very random problems there.

Is this system OC'd? It may be a good idea to run at stock but turn every voltage up a notch or two.

Also as i said check the hard drive - the most common cause for hangs mid boot is hard drive problems, whereas early stages (before the screen comes on) are commonly ram related.


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## DaedalusHelios (Apr 18, 2008)

alexp999 said:


> He is using raid yeah,
> but RAID drivers??
> How could drivers cause problems with the PC booting though?
> 
> ...



Yes it sucked hard every 5 or 6 boots. Slow then reached black screen.


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## alexp999 (Apr 18, 2008)

DaedalusHelios said:


> Yes it sucked hard every 5 or 6 boots. Slow then reached black screen.



How do you mean? Dont understand your description


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## alexp999 (Apr 18, 2008)

It failed to boot with my PSU too. . So im guessing tis not the PSu. That was also while only 2x1gb was present. Is it just the crappy support for quad cores??

BTW it does it overclocked and stock speeds

Is the 790i the only motherboard to nativley support quad cores then?

Would you say it is the bext SLi board to get?

i was looking at one from evga.


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## alexp999 (Apr 18, 2008)

Mussels said:


> the only things that can affect booting is the mobo and related hardware not booting - unfortunately Nv chipsets just seem to have very random problems there.
> 
> Is this system OC'd? It may be a good idea to run at stock but turn every voltage up a notch or two.
> 
> Also as i said check the hard drive - the most common cause for hangs mid boot is hard drive problems, whereas early stages (before the screen comes on) are commonly ram related.



If it didnt like the memory it wouldnt pass memtest right?
It is a complete failed post. Blank screen. (well monitor goes into standby)

Must be a quad core 680i thing then. I just find it wierd that apart from these odd (but frustrating) boot failures, it is really stable.


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## JrRacinFan (Apr 18, 2008)

Easy way to tell if its a quad core thing. Trade him procs for a few days.  ... oh and .. 
get spoiled in the process...


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## francis511 (Apr 18, 2008)

alexp999 said:


> It failed to boot with my PSU too. . So im guessing tis not the PSu. That was also while only 2x1gb was present. Is it just the crappy support for quad cores??
> 
> BTW it does it overclocked and stock speeds
> 
> ...



Sli + guaranteed quad overclocking. If you can find a cheaper one that you know overclocks then you might save money but I would try to narrow down the kind of problem you have first


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## francis511 (Apr 18, 2008)

JrRacinFan said:


> Easy way to tell if its a quad core thing. Trade him procs for a few days.  ... oh and ..
> get spoiled in the process...



+1


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## alexp999 (Apr 18, 2008)

TBH, im pretty sure it all started when he got his q6600.

I have just looked at the dedicated section of the bjorn3d forums for XFX mobos. And it is full of loads of people having problems with the XFX 680i LT and q6600.

Stupid POJ.

Cant nvidia just pull their fingers out and make a bios that works??

Or is it just a sh1tty chipset?


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## Mussels (Apr 19, 2008)

alexp999 said:


> If it didnt like the memory it wouldnt pass memtest right?
> It is a complete failed post. Blank screen. (well monitor goes into standby)
> 
> Must be a quad core 680i thing then. I just find it wierd that apart from these odd (but frustrating) boot failures, it is really stable.



790i is the first to officially support quads from the start, and it SEEMS to work a lot better. Thing is, check TPU's front page - there was an article yesterday about corruption issues on 790i.

The problems are definately the chipset - Nv basically didnt update their design when new chips came out.

I agree with the earlier posts - swap CPU's and see what happens.


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## hat (Apr 19, 2008)

3870x2 said:


> May sound wierd, but it worked for me: disconnect and reconnect all the cables.


+1
I remember if I bumped my old rig it would freeze and not boot until I reseated every connector. =\


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## alexp999 (Apr 19, 2008)

hat said:


> +1
> I remember if I bumped my old rig it would freeze and not boot until I reseated every connector. =\



I already done that.  . Have rebuilt the whole machine to make sure its all connected. I know that it worked before the q6600. I have his old processor. I just wanted to eliminate other things cus we got the PSU and RAM around the same time.

I dont think there is anything "broken" just his 680i doesnt support the q6600 properly. Oh well, he says he will just have to live with resetting the bios settings every now and again until he can afford to replace the mobo.

The corruption problems will probably have gone by then.

Thanks everyone.

PS
Dont suppose anyone can help with this can they?

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?p=756065#post756065

Its about my new PSU

Cheers.


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## alexp999 (Apr 21, 2008)

Okay I'm looking at RMAing the board. In case they come back to me saying its got to be another 680i. Do you reckon it is worth getting the:

Asus P5n32-E
Asus Striker Extreme

They both the 680i as opposed to 680i LT chipset. I read somewhere that the full 680i chipset has some sort of voltage modification in it over the Lt version which helps make quad cores more stable.

i doubt Im going to get the 790i on an RMA. Would either of the above be better than the XFX 680i LT??

Cheers

If people could reply asap. I'm not sure how soon I'm gonna have to decide on the RMA situation (i'm wating to here back from them)

thanks!


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## alexp999 (Apr 21, 2008)

Or I might be able to squeeze the 
Asus P5N-T (780i) out of them.

What do you guys think?


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## JrRacinFan (Apr 21, 2008)

750i based. Inexpensive but better than 680i although almost same chipset features besides 2 16x 2.0 slots, 8x+8x in SLi.


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## alexp999 (Apr 21, 2008)

JrRacinFan said:


> Count me in for 750i based.



But its only 2x8 for PCI-E.

I'm trying to figure out if the 680i or 780i is more stable than a 680i LT.

I know the 790i is the only nvidia chipset to natively support quad-cores but I dont think Im gonna get that out of the RMA.

And is it worth fighting for one of the Striker Extremes?

What do you get in the Strikers over the normal ones?

Also am I right in thinking that Asus dont use the reference design (unlike XFX/evga)

Is that a good or a bad thing?


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## Mussels (Apr 22, 2008)

striker extreme is a big no, its very unstable and does NOT work reliably with 4 sticks of ram - i have used some, and they were horrible when paired with a quad and refused to boot with a quad and 4 sticks of ram.

I too say that 750i is probably the most stable board, its ULI based.

 I beleive EVGA had one of the 680i boards, called the A1? It was a newer revision that worked properly with quad cores.


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## JrRacinFan (Apr 22, 2008)

alexp999 said:


> But its only 2x8 for PCI-E.



8x 2.0 + 8x 2.0 SLi. 

Don't worry, it will be plenty enough.


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## Mussels (Apr 22, 2008)

JrRacinFan said:


> 8x 2.0 + 8x 2.0 SLi.
> 
> Don't worry, it will be plenty enough.



oh DUH. i should have realised that 

As JrRacingFan says, its PCI-E 2.0 - so if you're running 2.0 cards the 8x bandwidth isnt a limitation whatsoever.


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## alexp999 (Apr 22, 2008)

Mussels said:


> oh DUH. i should have realised that
> 
> As JrRacingFan says, its PCI-E 2.0 - so if you're running 2.0 cards the 8x bandwidth isnt a limitation whatsoever.



His cards arent PCI-E 2.0 though.

What is the ASUS P5N32-SLI like then.

Or shall I try to get a 780i board?

There is the:

Asus P5n-T
MSI P7N Diamond
Asus Striker II Formula

Thanks.


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## Mussels (Apr 22, 2008)

To be honest i'd say avoid the strikers - they have a really bad rep.

oh and damn on the 1.0 cards, he has the old G80 GTS 

sorry i cant help more, overall the 680i and 780i boards are considered crap for quads, and as thats all i have i really dont know much more.


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## alexp999 (Apr 22, 2008)

Mussels said:


> To be honest i'd say avoid the strikers - they have a really bad rep.
> 
> oh and damn on the 1.0 cards, he has the old G80 GTS
> 
> sorry i cant help more, overall the 680i and 780i boards are considered crap for quads, and as thats all i have i really dont know much more.



Well these are the boards I can choose from (plus the 790i and Striker II Formula):







They are calling back at 4:30pm BST (+1 GMT), 20mins, lol!

So if you got any quick ideas??

Cheers for all the help so far.

Maybe if you had to pick one?


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## JrRacinFan (Apr 22, 2008)

Well, is budget pretty much endless? or you looking closer towards 650i end?


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## alexp999 (Apr 22, 2008)

JrRacinFan said:


> Well, is budget pretty much endless? or you looking closer towards 650i end?



I'm trying to pick a replacement for the RMA. They r going to ring any minute.
If there is one that really stands out as one to get I will try and fight for it.

But the original price was about £100. So worse case is that they are gonna come back with that.

I have requested the 790i, but its £130 more, and I dont suppose they will do that so I'm trying to sort out another board as a backup plan, closer to the orginal price which I can ask for.


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## JrRacinFan (Apr 22, 2008)

Eh, thats tough man, MSI Zilent/P5N-D or the P5N32E (not plus, nb gets way to overly warm IMO).


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## alexp999 (Apr 22, 2008)

JrRacinFan said:


> Eh, thats tough man, MSI Zilent/P5N-D or the P5N32E (not plus, nb gets way to overly warm IMO).



Which would be better then? Cus the P5n32e is 680i and the other two are only SLI 8x
That would bottleneck his gfx cards right?

Is it worth giving the asus a go then? Its better than the Striker yeah? Cus it wont bottleneck the gfx card and if it gets crappy with a quad it'll go back too!

Unless you think that the 750i wont bottleneck two G80 8800GTS 640mb's in Sli, then I will get the MSI.

I know what you mean, tough decision, thats why I thought I would ask you guys for help.

I was gonna ask for the striker extreme (680i) but after what mussels said...

Cheers!


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## alexp999 (Apr 22, 2008)

Never mind, the F*king W*nkrs @ ebuyer.com won't do anything except replace it with exactly the same model!
I won't be buying anything else from them again. And I advise no-one else on here buys from them either!


Thanks for all your help anyway!

Guess we'll just have to keep resetting the bios settings every now and then and hope a bios update comes out that might keep it stable at least at stock clocks.


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## Mussels (Apr 22, 2008)

If you get another one later, dual 8x isnt so bad - remember data is going across the SLI bridges too.

sorry about not getting here in time when you PM'd me, its 2am so i'm a bit slow 

P5N32-E seems interesting by what it shows there, stock 1333 FSB support is always handy. If any of the boards support 1600FSB, go for one of those. (my board supports 1600 stock, which really makes OCing a breeze)


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## alexp999 (Apr 22, 2008)

Mussels said:


> If you get another one later, dual 8x isnt so bad - remember data is going across the SLI bridges too.
> 
> sorry about not getting here in time when you PM'd me, its 2am so i'm a bit slow
> 
> P5N32-E seems interesting by what it shows there, stock 1333 FSB support is always handy. If any of the boards support 1600FSB, go for one of those. (my board supports 1600 stock, which really makes OCing a breeze)



He'll probably stick with what hes got and get a 790i when the prices drop a bit.

Really annoys me with ebuyer. The amount of turnover they have and they wont even offer me a board of the same value.

Oh well, they have lost a regular customer.


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## Mussels (Apr 23, 2008)

i have some places i order from here in aus, ones dirt cheap with poor support, the other two offer overnight delivery (i'm in rural aus, the 'outback' so thats awesome) and really good support.

I'd just find somewhere else next time... and spend the meanwhile researching SLI boards.


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## alexp999 (May 4, 2008)

UPDATE:
We are looking at getting another board. Are the 650i's more stable than the 680i's?

I have just looked at the Asus P5N32-e Sli Plus.

http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=1567&l1=3&l2=11&l3=495&l4=0

it uses the 650i but a different SB which allows the mobo to have full dual x16 pci-e slots.

We are only looking to OC to about 3Ghz. I'm trying to find a mobo for about £120 or less, that will have dual x16 support quad core processors PROPERLY (stupid 680i LT), and is "approved" by TPU (you lot), lol!

its replacing the mobo from my dad's rig in my sig, and has to work with everything else there.

What do people think?

Cheers.


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## Exavier (May 4, 2008)

I'm getting the 750i, and x50i boards only have x8/x8, but it really shouldn't affect your cards at all, as told to me by several other members when I raised the point.
The MSI 750i Zilent edition is only £102 (without P&P) and comes with the Zalman cooler so get it while they have 8 left! 
http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.aspx?sku=346013


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## JrRacinFan (May 4, 2008)

Alexp, what I said earlier still applies. If you get that board don't let the northbridge temps scare you.


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## alexp999 (May 4, 2008)

Exavier said:


> I'm getting the 750i, and x50i boards only have x8/x8, but it really shouldn't affect your cards at all, as told to me by several other members when I raised the point.
> The MSI 750i Zilent edition is only £102 (without P&P) and comes with the Zalman cooler so get it while they have 8 left!
> http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.aspx?sku=346013



But this asus has dual x16 slots that run at that speed for sli.

Are they more stable for quad than 680i's??

And has anybody had any experience, or know any porblems with them?

cheers.


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## alexp999 (May 4, 2008)

I have just done a little more looking around and apparently Asus' 750i mobo also has dual x16 sli compatibility?

Anyone got this board, or heard anything bout it?

http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=11&l3=627&l4=0&model=2033&modelmenu=1

is it true?

How come asus are getting round the nvidia limitations??

Which of these asus' would be better? Or neither  (only thing i can see is that 650i gives gfx cards more room to "breathe")

Cheers.


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## Exavier (May 4, 2008)

But as I said, what forseeable difference do you think x16/x16 will make over x8/x8 SLI in PCI-E 2.0?

with the P5N-D you'll need to install with only two sticks of RAM, then add them in later; it doesn't like starting fresh with 4GB.
also apparently doesn't have as nice onboard audio; that's up to you.

it gets the 16/16 by using a different MCP, so I'm told; it's just a different combination.


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## alexp999 (May 4, 2008)

Exavier said:


> But as I said, what forseeable difference do you think x16/x16 will make over x8/x8 SLI in PCI-E 2.0?
> 
> with the P5N-D you'll need to install with only two sticks of RAM, then add them in later; it doesn't like starting fresh with 4GB.
> also apparently doesn't have as nice onboard audio; that's up to you.
> ...



k thanks but my dad is on the old 8800gts' which are only PCI-E 1.0 so we need full x16 sli. 

Do you think that the P5N32-E SLi Plus could be quite a good board for him to get? With the supreme fx sound, better spacing of slots and heatpipe cooling and 8pin CPu power, lol.

The *50 series of nvidia chipsets dont have the same problems with quad cores as the *80 series right?

Cheers.


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## Exavier (May 4, 2008)

some x50i do, I know for certain the MSI 750i doesn't, which is why I'm debating going that way..
otherwise, the P5N-D could be what you need -shrug- it's your call to review what people have said here and make your own choice


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## alexp999 (May 4, 2008)

Exavier said:


> some x50i do, I know for certain the MSI 750i doesn't, which is why I'm debating going that way..
> otherwise, the P5N-D could be what you need -shrug- it's your call to review what people have said here and make your own choice



Okay cheers mate I'll see what other people come back with too. I'm just restricted to the MF's that have made a full x16 SLi board without using an x80i chipset, lol.

Thanks again!


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## alexp999 (May 4, 2008)

Okay I think I have found another x50i mobo with dual x16.

The EVGA 750i FTW

http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=123-YW-E175-A1

Anyone had any experience with this? know any problems or anything?

Would this evga board be better than the other asus boards i have been looking at?/

cheers all!


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## alexp999 (May 5, 2008)

Okay I am now looking for a good stable mobo that runs sli and a q6600. I dont want 680i or 780i due to the problems they have with quad cores (hence why im looking for a new one for my dad - see sig)
I like the look of the 650i's or 750i's and I believe that excluding the 790i the 750i is the best nvidia sli chipset at the moment. but cus he has Sli with PCI-E 1.0 Gfx cards i need a mobo that the MF has managed to get dual x16 sli working. the ones I have come up with so far are:

http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=123-YW-E175-A1
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=1567&l1=3&l2=11&l3=495&l4=0
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=11&l3=627&l4=0&model=2033&modelmenu=1

Let me know what you think, about the ones I've found or any others.

I always leave thanks for useful posts.  Any help appreciated.

Cheers everyone!!!


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## ShadowFold (May 5, 2008)

Im gonna be grabbing that EVGA 750i for my self in the next month or so


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## alexp999 (May 5, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> Im gonna be grabbing that EVGA 750i for my self in the next month or so



Cool, it is definetly x16 sli mode yeah? Cus the evga mods on the evga forums say so, and that the manual is misprint. Just cant find anyone who actually has one and can 100% confirm this.

looks to be a good board, probably the one we are going to get. 1600FSB ready too


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## ShadowFold (May 5, 2008)

Yup 16x+16x. The 750i is just an updated 680i with more features.


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## alexp999 (May 5, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> Yup 16x+16x. The 750i is just an updated 680i with more features.



nice one thanks. i doesnt have the quad core problems of the 680i or 780i's tho does it. its the reason we r upgrading, lol.


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## ShadowFold (May 5, 2008)

No idea sorry. Im guess it doesnt tho.


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## Mussels (May 7, 2008)

the problem with a quad will be OCing, on 750i - not overall stability.

This can vary board to board, i've been offline for a bit and am not too knowledgeable on the boards in question here - let us know how things go.


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## alexp999 (May 7, 2008)

Mussels said:


> the problem with a quad will be OCing, on 750i - not overall stability.
> 
> This can vary board to board, i've been offline for a bit and am not too knowledgeable on the boards in question here - let us know how things go.



We only want to take the board to 3Ghz for now anyway, it should be able to handle that yeah?

I also choose a mobo that has an 8 pin (150w) cpu connector, so that should help. I have read in the reviews that they had the q6600 on this evga to 3.6ghz stable in about 10 seconds .

And according to the evga forums the latest bios takes it even higher with ease.

Thanks for all you guys help. I'm gonna look at it today, but thats it  . my dad has quite litterally splashed out on a Commodore gaming case so he doesnt want me fitting the new mobo till the new case has arrived, to save messing about twice, lol.

Shouldnt be too long, will post with findings and some pics, its a nice looking case too.  .

Thanks again!


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## Mussels (May 7, 2008)

well if there are reports the latest bios made it better, i'll beleive that. 3GHz works on stock voltage most of the time for Q6600, so the power limitation shouldnt matter too.


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