# Intel Core i5-12400F



## W1zzard (Jan 18, 2022)

The Intel Core i5-12400F comes at an extremely attractive price point, yet offers performance comparable to AMD's Ryzen 5 5600X. While Intel introduced a Hybrid core design with Alder Lake, the 12400F is a P-core only design, which helps avoid potential compatibility issues with E-cores.

*Show full review*


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## zmeul (Jan 18, 2022)

wait a god damn minute

you test the 12400*F* and you put as a negative that it doesn't have an iGPU 
that's why the 12400 (non F) exists, if you need the iGPU you buy the non F version


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## W1zzard (Jan 18, 2022)

zmeul said:


> you test the 12400*F* and you put as a negative that it doesn't have an iGPU
> that's why the 12400 (non F) exists, if you need the iGPU you buy the non F version


Not everybody knows that "F" means "no iGPU". I want you to think about these +- points


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## Deleted member 202104 (Jan 18, 2022)

**** Ok everybody - I get it - it was meant as a rhetorical 'huh'. ****



Huh?


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## Bruno_O (Jan 18, 2022)

@weekendgeek

haha yeah, it's less efficient than a 5600X - uses more energy and has less performance
but on the good side, it doesn't get as hot

the only advantage of the 12400F is really the better price, which is negated a bit here in NZ where B660 boards are at least 100$ more expensive than a B550, so in the end the AMD combo (5600X + B550) is about 100$ NZD more expensive than the Intel combo (12400F + B660)
AMD needs to cut 60-80 USD from the 5600X to remain competitive


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## jonup (Jan 18, 2022)

weekendgeek said:


> Huh?
> 
> View attachment 233031


Energy efficiency is much improved over previous gens and comparable to Zen3 though not quite as good. Where is the confusion?
Presence of E-cores does create some issues with certain apps. It has been pointed out in other AL reviews/test on this website. That being said E-cores do provide meaningful benefits in general. So the two are not mutually exclusive.


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## dragontamer5788 (Jan 18, 2022)

weekendgeek said:


> Huh?
> 
> View attachment 233031



Based on what I saw, it seems like single-thread is very energy efficient, while multi-thread is less-energy efficient compared to Zen3.


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## WhoDecidedThat (Jan 18, 2022)

weekendgeek said:


> Huh?
> 
> View attachment 233031


Energy efficiency is worse than Zen 3 but not by a significant margin. Hence it is simultaneously comparable and worse than Zen 3. I do think the energy efficiency point should either be removed altogether from the pros and cons. Or it should be put only in the cons section as - Power efficiency is slightly worse than Zen 3.
Writing about energy efficiency in both pros and cons is confusing to those who are not as knowledgeable, I agree.​
No E cores means it can run Windows 10 just fine and not face compatibility issues. The absence of E cores does lead to lower performance compared to 12600K.
The entry regarding E cores can be clarified in the cons section as - No E Cores (results in lower multi-core performance compared to more expensive Alder Lake chips)​
These cons are more the things to be careful of if buying a 12400F rather than being its negative points/pitfalls. W1zzard has written the cons in a way to set the correct expectations since the pros are so damn good.


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## cellar door (Jan 18, 2022)

You can overclock locked alder lake with blck all the way up to 160 if you have a z690 board with an external clock generator and bios supporting this.

Of course that makes the value proposition pretty bad but apparently there are already two b660 boards that support this. der8aur has videos on this.


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## Space Lynx (Jan 18, 2022)

Bruno_O said:


> @weekendgeek
> 
> haha yeah, it's less efficient than a 5600X - uses more energy and has less performance
> but on the good side, it doesn't get as hot
> ...



I see, I think I know what the review means now. 


jonup said:


> Energy efficiency is much improved over previous gens and comparable to Zen3 though not quite as good. Where is the confusion?
> Presence of E-cores does create some issues with certain apps. It has been pointed out in other AL reviews/test on this website. That being said E-cores do provide meaningful benefits in general. So the two are not mutually exclusive.



i think i understand now. me brain no works sometimes


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## WhoDecidedThat (Jan 18, 2022)

cellar door said:


> You can overclock locked alder lake with blck all the way up to 160 if you have a z690 board with an external clock generator and bios supporting this.
> 
> Of course that makes the value proposition pretty bad but apparently there are already two b660 boards that support this. der8aur has videos on this.


The video links are -


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## DuxCro (Jan 18, 2022)

I hope one day intel releases a  graphics card that's on performance level of RTX 3060, but with like 50-60% of its price. Most gamers buy mid range cards anyways.


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## mechtech (Jan 18, 2022)

One bonus of having your own foundry, you don't have to pay a XX% markup from someone else.  Hopefully AMD can compete on dollars, but as they rely on TSMC for their chips, I really wonder how much $$ they have to play with on price?

As for no integrated graphics, I don't know I'd buy a cpu without one anymore and or going forward due to prices and supplies of vid cards.


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## GURU7OF9 (Jan 18, 2022)

You have stated several times the Ryzen 5600x does not come with a HSF.  
It most definately does come with a HSF. 
It is useable  but only average with heavy work loads like prime 95 getting into the 80s C.
It is only the other Zen 3s that do not come with a HSF but the  5600x definately does!  
Good article but !


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## Meanhx (Jan 18, 2022)

Where I live, the difference in price between the 12400 and the 5600x is about the same as the difference in price between a decent B550 and the cheapest decent B660. If you go with the 12400f, the Intel combo is slightly cheaper (maybe 10-20€). So while the 12400f is a win when it comes to the price/performance of the CPU, I still need to see more cheap and decent B660 motherboards in my region to make it the clear winner.


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## Taraquin (Jan 18, 2022)

Good review, very similar to my findings when i compared my 5600X vs my 12400F. The 5600X does come with a cooler, wraith stealth. It`s not very good, but does the job okayish.


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## Ruszli (Jan 18, 2022)

While I understand the initial reasoning for moving the testing suite to Win 11,  I just don't think it makes sense given how the adoption turned out to be. Beyond that, there's also the scheduling issues that can and do affect the performance of the high-end Alderlake SKUs in real world scenarios.

All of that aside, quality review as usual! AMD better wake up and cut some prices to respond to the new "valueking".


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## TristanX (Jan 18, 2022)

PLS add page with clock frequencies depending on numer of threads


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## Jism (Jan 18, 2022)

cellar door said:


> You can overclock locked alder lake with blck all the way up to 160 if you have a z690 board with an external clock generator and bios supporting this.
> 
> Of course that makes the value proposition pretty bad but apparently there are already two b660 boards that support this. der8aur has videos on this.



You know thats a 600$ / euro board right?


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## mama (Jan 18, 2022)

Thanks.  Useful comparison.


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## bug (Jan 18, 2022)

I see you've kept around the results where K CPU were erroneously running on the E-cores. I know it's time consuming to fix that, but it makes 12400F appear faster than it actually is.


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## Xuper (Jan 19, 2022)

with B660 , Can you OC this CPU?


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## damric (Jan 19, 2022)

Well if they can get the base clock overclocking on the middle budget boards then Intel might interest me again.


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## Mussels (Jan 19, 2022)

The one intel chip i'd consider (Since it's not a 240W monster)
aaaand it's slower than a 5600x in gaming

-.-






And yet everywhere you look people rant and rave that 12th gen is the gaming king, because the top chips, the volcano room heaters edge ahead slightly

The only thing going for it, is the CPU itself is quite cheap - which can be negated almost instantly by the requirement of a Z series board and DDR5 to get the full performance, where the 5600x can run on B450 (and even x370, with some boards)


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## dicobalt (Jan 19, 2022)

Xuper said:


> with B660 , Can you OC this CPU?


Only if you buy a $400 motherboard for your $200 CPUas der8auer impressively demonstrates here there are massive gains to be had with the 12400: 







Intel's H670 and B660 boards are way too expensive. For budget buyers switching to Intel hoping to save money, anything gained from the cheaper cpu price is lost paying for the board and remember those budget CPUs don't have E cores.


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## catulitechup (Jan 19, 2022)

Xuper said:


> with B660 , Can you OC this CPU?


maybe @W1zzard can confirm this feature from asrock mainboards (apparetly present in H and B mainboard series), this can give more frecuency without blck


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## Tsukiyomi91 (Jan 19, 2022)

this sub-$200 chip is an absolute beast in gaming with its limiter removed. And STILL managed to stay cooler than AMD under full load and when gaming while consuming no more than 140W? Dayum. Even if AMD did cut their prices for their R5 5600X to remain competitive, it gets beaten by this no E-core Alder Lake CPU easily.


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## Selaya (Jan 19, 2022)

> while AMD wants $300 for the 5600X and doesn't even include a heatsink.


correction: the 5600x's shipping w/ the stealth, the only vermeer to do so (5800x and up come w/o any stock coolers)


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## ModEl4 (Jan 19, 2022)

In Europe the difference between AMD B550 and Intel B660 (nearly equivalent features (USB 3.1/2X M.2 pcie4/2.5Gb Ethernet etc.) is around 50€ so for me it doesn't make sense to pay more than 60€ for 5600X, so in $ probably something like $239 if you check previous $/€ pricing differences.
In which case the rest of the lineup would be something like:
5950X $659
5900X $449
5800X $349
5600X $239
If there is a 5600X3D and it is $299 and 15% faster than 5600X then $349 for 5800X seems just about right regarding price/performance (in games it will be slower than a 5600X3D) then 5900X cannot be more than $100 more expensive, since at much higher price points ($449/$549) the difference was also only $100 etc.
So if you take account TDP limitations and that AMD wants to maximize profits and the supply(TSMC)/demand situation we may not have a conversion of all the current 5000X models in 3D cache enhanced equivalents.
Anyway 12400F is based on a new socket with more future than AM4 and at $180 is offering 5600X kind of performance and for the majority of gamers this is an excellent offer!


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## Dyatlov A (Jan 19, 2022)

I am surprised what i am reading here, because from individual youtube reviews, i expected this 12400f faster than even AMD 5800X. Anyway with overclocking will be unquestionably faster and not just AMD challenger…


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## Forza.Milan (Jan 19, 2022)

Conclusion of energy efficiency:

the left side was pleased intel fanboys and the right side was pleased amd fanboys, then everyone happy (or angry) .. lol


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## Upgrayedd (Jan 19, 2022)

@W1zzard would it be possible to add a RT test for CPUs? My old 4790K doesn't handle RT very well and I've thought about getting a newer i5 or even i3 but I'm still worried about being CPU bottle necked with RT on. 
Could just be a single resolution. 1080p.


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## Bruno_O (Jan 19, 2022)

Dyatlov A said:


> I am surprised what i am reading here, because from individual youtube reviews, i expected this 12400f faster than even AMD 5800X. Anyway with overclocking will be unquestionably faster and not just AMD challenger…


GamerNexus and Hardware Unboxed had the same results
Intel is only faster when using huge amounts of power, they lose in a proper / limited TDP


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## The King (Jan 19, 2022)

Dyatlov A said:


> I am surprised what i am reading here, because from individual youtube reviews, i expected this 12400f faster than even AMD 5800X. Anyway with overclocking will be unquestionably faster and not just AMD challenger…


On most mobo's you can only do below 103 OC on the bclk stated in the review, which is not going to outperform a 5600X with PBO enabled and you can also bclk OC the Ryzen CPUs as well.

If you spend alot on an very expensive motherboard that allows you to do higher blck for a 12400F, then the cost advantage of this CPU is lost and its no challenger to AMD at that price point.

Overall still very impressed with the 5600X. Still very strong CPU if you own one today. I said it before and I will say it again the 5600X was a CPU ahead of its time. 

12400F+B660 is probably going to be the best price/performance if you buying a new system at the present moment.


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## Why_Me (Jan 19, 2022)

Solid review. As soon as the rest of the Gigabyte and MSI B660 boards hit the stores _(Asus LGA 1700 boards are overpriced for the most part)_, this cpu + B660 DDR4 board will be the go to build imo for gamers on a budget.


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## ratirt (Jan 19, 2022)

Kinda expected more from all the fuss people were doing here and there. I don't see this CPU killing anything and the performance is not that overwhelmingly better to me from the hype people were giving. As it turns out it is not that great from what have been hyped. The price is competitive though but that's basically all.
Compared prices for the Mobo+CPU. The Intel counterpart leads by $30 less. People claim that AMD should lower the price for 5600x. If AMD does it, even by $30, Intel CPU loses whatever small advantage it has now.
I'd like to see the 5700G or 5600G comparison with this 12400F. Something tells me the 'G' series CPUs would have been close in performance to 12400f.


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## Why_Me (Jan 19, 2022)

ratirt said:


> Kinda expected more from all the fuss people were doing here and there. I don't see this CPU killing anything and the performance is not that overwhelmingly better to me from the hype people were giving. As it turns out it is not that great from what have been hyped. The price is competitive though but that's basically all.
> Compared prices for the Mobo+CPU. The Intel counterpart leads by $30 less. People claim that AMD should lower the price for 5600x. If AMD does it, even by $30, Intel CPU loses whatever small advantage it has now.
> I'd like to see the 5700G or 5600G comparison with this 12400F. Something tells me the 'G' series CPUs would have been close in performance in performnace to 12400f.


Maybe 1/3 if that of the B660 DDR4 boards have hit the stores and most of those are overpriced Asus boards.  

These will be two go to boards for gamers and they should be priced at right around $150 USD once they're released.

https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard/B660M-GAMING-X-AX-DDR4-rev-1x
GIGABYTE B660M GAMING X AX DDR4

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-B660M-BAZOOKA-DDR4 
MSI MAG B660M BAZOOKA DDR4


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## Taraquin (Jan 19, 2022)

ratirt said:


> Kinda expected more from all the fuss people were doing here and there. I don't see this CPU killing anything and the performance is not that overwhelmingly better to me from the hype people were giving. As it turns out it is not that great from what have been hyped. The price is competitive though but that's basically all.
> Compared prices for the Mobo+CPU. The Intel counterpart leads by $30 less. People claim that AMD should lower the price for 5600x. If AMD does it, even by $30, Intel CPU loses whatever small advantage it has now.
> I'd like to see the 5700G or 5600G comparison with this 12400F. Something tells me the 'G' series CPUs would have been close in performance to 12400f.


No, the G-series is about 10% slower. 5600X is only 1-2% faster and it produces more heat, uses a bit more energy. 

Where I live cheapest B450 MB costs 70usd, 100usd for cheapest B550, cheapest B660 costs 140usd, 5600X costs 330usd and 12400f costs 220usd so the cheapest 12400F combo is 360usd, while cheapest 5600X combo is 400usd. The stock Intel cooler is superior to wraith stealth though as you lose 2-300MHz allcore speed using wraith due to temp lowering core clocks above 70C.

I own both and summarized:
12400F:
+More efficient
+more bang for bucks
+better stock cooler
+runs cooler
+faster in rendering like CB (5-10%)

5600X:
+better IMC, can usually run memory at 3733-4200 (i5 12400F does 3400-3800 max from what I've read so far) depending on binning
+a bit faster (5-10%) once fully tweaked due to curve optimizer, pbo and faster ram
+faster in zipping


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## W1zzard (Jan 19, 2022)

GURU7OF9 said:


> You have stated several times the Ryzen 5600x does not come with a HSF.
> It most definately does come with a HSF.


Whoops, of course, fixed now



bug said:


> I see you've kept around the results where K CPU were erroneously running on the E-cores. I know it's time consuming to fix that, but it makes 12400F appear faster than it actually is.


How do I fix that? I'm not aware of a way to control Thread Director?



Dyatlov A said:


> I am surprised what i am reading here, because from individual youtube reviews, i expected this 12400f faster than even AMD 5800X. Anyway with overclocking will be unquestionably faster and not just AMD challenger…


There's no meaningful OC on the 12400F. As others mentioned there's some OC possible on super expensive motherboards, but that's not cost-effective. If there's a way with cheaper boards, I'm 100% sure Intel will shut it down like they did with ASRock's BCLK hack before on Coffee Lake iirc


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## Sithaer (Jan 19, 2022)

In my country the 5600x goes for ~373 $ brand new, the 12400F is ~ 250 $ with VAT included.

Usable _'read: for me if I had to pick'_ B550 and B660 difference is about 30-50$.

Tho I'm more interested in the 12100F but thats not yet available here.
In overall I'm liking what I see from these CPUs, definitely great performance considering the prices.


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## Taraquin (Jan 19, 2022)

Sithaer said:


> In my country the 5600x goes for ~373 $ brand new, the 12400F is ~ 250 $ with VAT included.
> 
> Usable _'read: for me if I had to pick'_ B550 and B660 difference is about 30-50$.
> 
> ...


You can go B450 if you don't need PCIe 4.0, that will save you 20-30usd vs B550, but 12400F combo will still be cheaper and perform very close.


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## Broken Processor (Jan 19, 2022)

W1zzard said:


> Not everybody knows that "F" means "no iGPU". I want you to think about these +- points


Hopefully they read the spec sheet before buying.


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## ExcuseMeWtf (Jan 19, 2022)

This and i3-12100F are new value champions.


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## Turmania (Jan 19, 2022)

I find it weird where we are trying to save 50 bucks from here and there and than forced to splash 1000 usd for a 1080p gpu card. It takes away all the cost saving and talk.


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## W1zzard (Jan 19, 2022)

ExcuseMeWtf said:


> This and i3-12100F are new value champions.


Next CPU review from me


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## Why_Me (Jan 19, 2022)

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/amd...46ghz-turbo-35mb-cache-pcie-40-65w-cpu-retail 
AMD Ryzen 5 5600X £269.99

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/int...reads-25ghz-44ghz-turbo-18mb-cache-65w-retail 
Intel Core i5 12400F £179.99 

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/msi...r4-sata3-pcie-40-2x-m2-25gbe-usb-32-gen2-matx 
MSI PRO B660M-A DDR4 £134.99


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## ratirt (Jan 19, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> No, the G-series is about 10% slower. 5600X is only 1-2% faster and it produces more heat, uses a bit more energy.
> 
> Where I live cheapest B450 MB costs 70usd, 100usd for cheapest B550, cheapest B660 costs 140usd, 5600X costs 330usd and 12400f costs 220usd so the cheapest 12400F combo is 360usd, while cheapest 5600X combo is 400usd. The stock Intel cooler is superior to wraith stealth though as you lose 2-300MHz allcore speed using wraith due to temp lowering core clocks above 70C.
> 
> ...


From TPU's testing the 5600G no OC is 8% slower (with OC the difference drops to around 4%) than 5600x. If we put your estimate into the equation, 5600g No OC is 6% slower than 12400F. So that is not a lot. With 5600G OC you clearly approaching 2%-3%. 5600x does not use more energy. Not according to TPU. It varies by around 5watts leaning towards one or the other. No clear winner here.
You dont need b550 for Ryzen. B450 is ok even B350 would be enough in some cases. These boards go for $60 or around.
Faster in rendering and then slower in compression decompression with 7zip. I'm focusing in general performance and not cherry picked benchmarks.
Better stock cooler? How is that evaluated it is better? by the CPUs temp? Maybe 5600x just runs hotter that's it.
There is a lot of misleading in your +points for me.


Why_Me said:


> Maybe 1/3 if that of the B660 DDR4 boards have hit the stores and most of those are overpriced Asus boards.
> 
> These will be two go to boards for gamers and they should be priced at right around $150 USD once they're released.
> 
> ...


Sure, when they are here but they are not here yet and we dont know the price.
Also, you are talking about new systems, I'm sure for those who have an older 2000 series CPU and, for instance, B450 board which supports 5600x they would rather lean towards just the CPU instead buying an entire system. Maybe there isnt a lot of these people though.


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## Forza.Milan (Jan 19, 2022)

e-core is advantage or disadvantage?

Intel: there's something wrong with e-core, so we exclude it
Also Intel: the ultimate price get e-core


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## ExcuseMeWtf (Jan 19, 2022)

There's nothing wrong with E-cores if you use Windows 11. For Windows 10 better to get chips w/o those as performance will be more consistent.
That's clearly not a chip problem though.


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## Assimilator (Jan 19, 2022)

ratirt said:


> 5600g No OC is 6% slower than 12400F. So that is not a lot.


It is when the 5600G costs significantly more.


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## bug (Jan 19, 2022)

W1zzard said:


> How do I fix that? I'm not aware of a way to control Thread Director?


Process affinity/process lasso. In case of single threaded tests, like SuperPi, just disable the E cores.
And yeah, you should have to do any of that ITD should be smart enough to do this for you. If Intel doesn't fix that soon, it will ruin ADL and their entire heterogeneous architecture.


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## Taraquin (Jan 19, 2022)

ratirt said:


> From TPU's testing the 5600G no OC is 8% slower (with OC the difference drops to around 4%) than 5600x. If we put your estimate into the equation, 5600g No OC is 6% slower than 12400F. So that is not a lot. With 5600G OC you clearly approaching 2%-3%. 5600x does not use more energy. Not according to TPU. It varies by around 5watts leaning towards one or the other. No clear winner here.
> You dont need b550 for Ryzen. B450 is ok even B350 would be enough in some cases. These boards go for $60 or around.
> Faster in rendering and then slower in compression decompression with 7zip. I'm focusing in general performance and not cherry picked benchmarks.
> Better stock cooler? How is that evaluated it is better? by the CPUs temp? Maybe 5600x just runs hotter that's it.
> ...


Okay, 6% may be closer to the truth, but 12400 is still faster than 5600G and costs less. If you plan on using iGPU 5600G is superior vs 12400. I`ve done indepth testing of 5600X and 12400F: Tweaked i5 12400F meets tweaked 5600X! | TechPowerUp Forums

If you use stock cooler on 5600X allcore frequency drops if temp rises above 70C. In Cinebench stock cooler runs at 4.3GHz with curve optimizer vs 4.6GHz with Noctua D15. i5 12400F does not throttle if temp is above 70C, in CB temp lies around 75-80C with stock cooler and no powerlimit, 4GHz allcore no matter if temp is 60 or 80C.

Efficiency in CB for instance: 12400 uses max 71W, 5600X uses 76W, 12400 scores 1000 points higher. In games I generally observe 5W lower consumption vs 5600X.

You could use a B450 og B350 (and lose PCIe 4.0 so okay if you don`t use fast nvme or Radeon 6500\6600), but still where I live 12400F+B660 ends up cheaper. If price were equal I would say 5600X wins if performance is top priority, but 12400 runs cooler, a bit more efficient and is better at some apps like rendering.


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## Mussels (Jan 19, 2022)

Assimilator said:


> It is when the 5600G costs significantly more.



Now i wont say that $60 isnt small, but the mobo and ram prices are much bigger


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## ratirt (Jan 19, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Okay, 6% may be closer to the truth, but 12400 is still faster than 5600G and costs less. If you plan on using iGPU 5600G is superior vs 12400. I`ve done indepth testing of 5600X and 12400F: Tweaked i5 12400F meets tweaked 5600X! | TechPowerUp Forums
> 
> If you use stock cooler on 5600X allcore frequency drops if temp rises above 70C. In Cinebench stock cooler runs at 4.3GHz with curve optimizer vs 4.6GHz with Noctua D15. i5 12400F does not throttle if temp is above 70C, in CB temp lies around 75-80C with stock cooler and no powerlimit, 4GHz allcore no matter if temp is 60 or 80C.
> 
> ...


You are focusing only on one scenario. People buy new computer. That's not always the case especially in AMD's world. For Intel sure, there arent a lot of options to upgrade you need a new platform.
3-4% is not a lot. That also depends what resolution you are playing at. Depends on the market and nowadays the GPU market sucks so 5600G has a huge merit here, since you literally can play with that CPU. Even if you want to buy a dGPU you may not get it immediately. What I'm saying is it really depends. 6% deference in performance is nothing. 12400F may be faster by a notch but that doesnt mean everyone should go for it because the entire platform turns out to be $60 or around cheaper and it is faster 6% because you wont even notice the difference. I'm just painting a bigger picture here.



Assimilator said:


> It is when the 5600G costs significantly more.


You need the entire platform for a 12400f for 5600g not necessarily so it depends on your situation and before you discredit this idea, it does have a merit to me.
Also there are cheaper boards that 5600g would work perfectly fine with. Price for these boards is way cheaper than a board for 12400f and that difference in price between the 2 CPU is literally gone.
Not to mention. The 5600g costs around $295 in Norway vs $230 for the 12400F



Mussels said:


> Now i wont say that $60 isnt small, but the mobo and ram prices are much bigger


True that.


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## Taraquin (Jan 19, 2022)

ratirt said:


> You are focusing only on one scenario. People buy new computer. That's not always the case especially in AMD's world. For Intel sure, there arent a lot of options to upgrade you need a new platform.
> 3-4% is not a lot. That also depends what resolution you are playing at. Depends on the market and nowadays the GPU market sucks so 5600G has a huge merit here, since you literally can play with that CPU. Even if you want to buy a dGPU you may not get it immediately. What I'm saying is it really depends. 6% deference in performance is nothing. 12400F may be faster by a notch but that doesnt mean everyone should go for it because the entire platform turns out to be $60 or around cheaper and it is faster 6% because you wont even notice the difference. I'm just painting a bigger picture here.
> 
> 
> ...


Of course I would go 5600X or 5600G if upgrading from another ryzen, but buying new is a different matter. It looks like Raptor lake will be supported on B660 and AM4 is at the last gen, that is another reason to consider 12400F.


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## ratirt (Jan 19, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Of course I would go 5600X or 5600G if upgrading from another ryzen, but buying new is a different matter. It looks like Raptor lake will be supported on B660 and AM4 is at the last gen, that is another reason to consider 12400F.


Of course it is a different matter and for a 12400F that's the only matter because there is no other way. You can't use 12400f in any of the previously released boards. Even if you want to use DDR4 Memory you still need to buy new board. This accounts for a huge + to 5600g which makes it actually cheaper. 
CPU vs CPU sure, the 12400F wins but you cant picture it that way cause you can't only the 12400F, you need an entire platform and in that aspect, 5600G is cheaper or at least equal in price.


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## Gameslove (Jan 19, 2022)

Overall great a CPU for that price 180$. 

Good: No E-cores helps avoid compatibility issues

Bad: No E-cores. 

How understand this?


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## bug (Jan 19, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Of course I would go 5600X or 5600G if upgrading from another ryzen, but buying new is a different matter. It looks like Raptor lake will be supported on B660 and AM4 is at the last gen, that is another reason to consider 12400F.


That's debatable. First gen Zen doesn't run on the same boards as Zen3+. And if you're already on Zen2+/3, upgrading to Zen3+ is hardly worth it.
So yeah, in most cases you're still looking at the cost of a whole PC.

One caveat when talking about mid or low end CPUs: these are still reviewed on high-end mobos using the fastest RAM, which is not how they are usually paired. You need to account for that, especially if planning on using the IGP.


----------



## ExcuseMeWtf (Jan 19, 2022)

Gameslove said:


> Overall great a CPU for that price 180$.
> 
> Good: No E-cores helps avoid compatibility issues
> 
> ...


Depends on OS. If Windows 11, see bad. If Windows 10 or older, see good. Dunno about other OS.


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## Anymal (Jan 19, 2022)

Dear Mr. Sorcerer, wen i3 12100 review?

Kind regards!


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## bug (Jan 19, 2022)

Gameslove said:


> Overall great a CPU for that price 180$.
> 
> Good: No E-cores helps avoid compatibility issues
> 
> ...


I think what @W1zzard meant is that not having E cores means you don't need to worry about running these on Win10 (pro), but ideally you would want to have E cores, too (con).
I'm not sure I agree. E cores give a little boost in multithreaded scenarios, but idle power isn't any better than Zen. I haven't seen the power measured in light load scenarios, though.


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## Why_Me (Jan 19, 2022)

Anymal said:


> Dear Mr. Sorcerer, wen i3 12100 review?
> 
> Kind regards!











						Intel Core i5-12400F
					

with B660 , Can you OC this CPU?  maybe @W1zzard can confirm this feature from asrock mainboards (apparetly present in H and B mainboard series), this can give more frecuency without blck    :)




					www.techpowerup.com


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## ratirt (Jan 19, 2022)

bug said:


> I think what @W1zzard meant is that not having E cores means you don't need to worry about running these on Win10 (pro), but ideally you would want to have E cores, too (con).
> I'm not sure I agree. E cores give a little boost in multithreaded scenarios, but idle power isn't any better than Zen. I haven't seen the power measured in light load scenarios, though.


I think it is not so wise to put not having ecores as bad or good. This CPU is simply an option without those. If you want ecores you go for a different CPU. 
What I'm saying here, presence of e-cores should not be considered as something good or bad. It's just an option in case you dont need e-cores. If you do, you dont go for 12400F.


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## Sithaer (Jan 19, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> You can go B450 if you don't need PCIe 4.0, that will save you 20-30usd vs B550, but 12400F combo will still be cheaper and perform very close.



I'm not interested in buying CPUs in the price range of the 5600X and even the 12400 is out of my budget, just wanted to mention that where I live the price difference is like that between the 2.
For my use case/needs the 12100 is the best budget value CPU currently, my B350 mobo supports Zen 2 max and even the second hand 3600/x is kinda overpriced nowadays and honestly not worth it like this.

So at this point I'm considering saving up a bit more and just straight out switch to a new platform which will serve me easily 4 years again if not more. _'built my current one in 2018'_

If I can sell my current mobo+cpu then I can make the switch with 180 $ or so which I'm willing to pay but it still depends on a thing or two so I'm waiting till ~March.


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## Why_Me (Jan 19, 2022)

Sithaer said:


> I'm not interested in buying CPUs in the price range of the 5600X, just wanted to mention that where I live the price difference is like that between the 2.
> For my use case/needs the 12100 is the best budget value CPU currently, my B350 mobo supports Zen 2 max and even the second hand 3600/x is kinda overpriced nowadays and honestly not worth it like this.
> 
> So at this point I'm considering saving up a bit more and just straight out switch to a new platform which will serve me easily 4 years again if not more. _'built my current one in 2018'_
> ...


What country are you located?


----------



## ratirt (Jan 19, 2022)

Sithaer said:


> I'm not interested in buying CPUs in the price range of the 5600X, just wanted to mention that where I live the price difference is like that between the 2.
> For my use case/needs the 12100 is the best budget value CPU currently, my B350 mobo supports Zen 2 max and even the second hand 3600/x is kinda overpriced nowadays and honestly not worth it like this.
> 
> So at this point I'm considering saving up a bit more and just straight out switch to a new platform which will serve me easily 4 years again if not more. _'built my current one in 2018'_
> ...


I dont know what the price range is where you live between 12400f and 5600x but B350 might be able to work with the 5600x. It is still cheaper to buy just the 5600x than a 12400F with a motherboard. At least that is the case where I live.


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## Xuper (Jan 19, 2022)

Hope @W1zzard , Publish next article about benchmark of Tweaked ( 5600X vs 12400F )


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## Sithaer (Jan 19, 2022)

Why_Me said:


> What country are you located?



Hungary.



ratirt said:


> I dont know what the price range is where you live between 12400f and 5600x but B350 might be able to work with the 5600x. It is still cheaper to buy just the 5600x than a 12400F with a motherboard. At least that is the case where I live.



I generally don't really buy CPUs that cost more than 180 $, thats what I paid for my 1600X in 2018 and thats my upper budget limit for a CPU alone.
12400F is ~249 $ and the 5600X is ~370 $ and no my mobo does not support it according to the mobos's CPU support list with the latest Bios.

Second hand 3600/x goes for 190 $ or so but its actually beaten by the 12100 in gaming and thats pretty much all I care about, don't do any productivity or work related stuff on my PC and I kinda need a CPU with better IPC/Single thread than what I have now. _'I do play crappy optimized games that rely on that more than core count'_

To put in a different perspective.
If I sell my current mobo+cpu and buy a B660+12100 that will cost me at the end between 160-180 $ in total.
If I keep my B350 and only sell the 1600X and buy a 3600 then that will cost me ~ 110-120 $.

So ye I rather save up that ~50-60 $ and switch to a new platform with better IPC and upgrade path and has fresh warranty for 3 years.


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## vMax65 (Jan 19, 2022)

In the UK the cheapest B660 board is £104 coupled to a £179 12400F (12500 is £200) you are looking at around £283 which is not bad at all especially if you can re-use your ram and DDR4 is so cheap anyway at the moment. The 5600X is £319 so they really need to drop the 5600X's price. Not sure why AMD have given up on the low to mid end of the CPU market as even the 12600K is £278 and the 12600KF is £269 and the 12600 is just £230 and it is way better than the 5600X. Hopefully AMD will drop prices and even better they need to release a low to mid stack Ryzen 4...


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## Why_Me (Jan 19, 2022)

Sithaer said:


> *Hungary.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a pretty big difference in price.

https://www.alza.hu/intel-core-i5-12400f-d6939807.htm
Intel Core i5-12400F 74 790 Ft

https://www.alza.hu/amd-ryzen-5-5600x-d6205102.htm
AMD Ryzen 5 5600X 120 590 Ft


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## Sithaer (Jan 19, 2022)

Why_Me said:


> That's a pretty big difference in price.
> 
> https://www.alza.hu/intel-core-i5-12400f-d6939807.htm
> Intel Core i5-12400F 74 790 Ft
> ...



I'm not a big fan of Alza but they usually have the new stuff first but yea prices are very similar in other big E/Retailers too like where I buy my new stuff for ~14 years already:
https://www.pcx.hu/intel1700_processzor
https://www.pcx.hu/amd_am4_processzor

Anyway I'm still thinking about it but the 12100 has a high chance on my list and from what I can expect/see it will land for about 140 $ here.


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## ratirt (Jan 19, 2022)

Sithaer said:


> I generally don't really buy CPUs that cost more than 180 $, thats what I paid for my 1600X in 2018 and thats my upper budget limit for a CPU alone.
> 12400F is ~249 $ and the 5600X is ~370 $ and no my mobo does not support it according to the mobos's CPU support list with the latest Bios.


I'm just saying, the support list for 5000 series CPUs might be extended to B350 boards as well.
I understand you but you wont be buying only 12400f but also a board. If you can get a board and 12400F for less than what you would have to pay for just a 5600x you might be right. Check 5600G as well. This one is cheaper as well.


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## thelawnet (Jan 19, 2022)

@W1zzard  please correct:

"As of this writing, Intel decided against launching the H670 client chipset, " - launched and shipping

". The H610 is the bare entry-level chipset. You lose out on memory overclocking, only get Gen3 PCIe connectivity across the board, and no CPU-attached NVMe."

Every H610 motherboard has PCIE 4.0 x 16 slot. M.2 connectivity is where you lose out, as it's indeed limited to PCI 3.0 (x4 for the first M.2, and x2 for the second, found only on the Asus Prime E/A).

I also found the article slightly confusing because all the graphs contain three bars, which I don't think are explained anywhere?

These are:

Red: DDR5-4800 CL40
Green: 2.5/4.4GHz
Blue: Power limits removed

I assumed the green was DDR4, because I didn't think anyone would be crazy enough to pair this thing with DDR5 RAM, but I checked more, and I guess in fact Green is the $550 RAM you used (DDR5-6000, CL36), and DDR5-4800 represents the manufacturer's max specs for the chip (hence DDR5-6000 is overclocked), but I'm not really clear why the CL has been reduced to CL40. At any rate it would be a lot clearer if it said DDR5-6000 CL40 for the green bars, instead of 2.5/4.4 GHz, which are just the manufacturer's standard specs, so not really a variable here.

In terms of the RAM recommendations, " My recommendation would be a DDR-3600 CL16 kit—easy to acquire and super affordable." , it looks like for 2x8GB/2x16GB:

* DDR4-3200 CL16 - $51/$98
* DDR4-3600 CL16 - $78/$154

It's not really clear to me that this is worth it or not, having chosen the cheapest CPU in the line-up, to spend 50% more on RAM?

Further, we could note that if you DID buy the 3200MHz RAM, then it would run at max speed with an H610 motherboard, which is $40 cheaper than a B660, and given the fact that you find almost no performance advantage from lifting the power limits (impossible on the H610?), then this chip becomes in the real world a lot more sensible because it doesn't really seem that great to spend $150 on a board for a $180 CPU and say it's far cheaper than a (faster) $280 CPU with an $80 board.

The price of the motherboards seems to be the elephant in the room, where with the launch of the 5600X you could use an existing motherboard with new BIOS, whereas for this you are forced to use a new generation board which will cut out a lot of the price savings. 

I mean.... The B660 is definitely better than H610, but when you are buying a cut-down chip then you are obviously trying to save money, so I expect to see a bunch of pre-built PCs with 12400f + H610m. 

The other point, incidentally, that I'm trying to figure out is which CPUs do end up throttled by the power limits (117W across the i5 non-k chips). The IGP is rated at 15W? So maybe an i5-12500/12600 (non-k) would be throttled during gaming on IGP?


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## bug (Jan 19, 2022)

Sithaer said:


> I'm not a big fan of Alza but they usually have the new stuff first but yea prices are very similar in other big E/Retailers too like where I buy my new stuff for ~14 years already:
> https://www.pcx.hu/intel1700_processzor
> https://www.pcx.hu/amd_am4_processzor
> 
> Anyway I'm still thinking about it but the 12100 has a high chance on my list and from what I can expect/see it will land for about 140 $ here.


There's also the option of not buying on release and paying the early adopter tax. Not that you don't know that already.


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## Sithaer (Jan 19, 2022)

bug said:


> There's also the option of not buying on release and paying the early adopter tax. Not that you don't know that already.



Yup, I'm not doing that since there are certain things that I will need to check myself in February, namely a specific game relase and then decide around early March if I'm making the switch or not.
By then there should be more affordable half decent B mobos to pick from and hopefully the i 3 price will settle too.



ratirt said:


> I'm just saying, the support list for 5000 series CPUs might be extended to B350 boards as well.
> I understand you but you wont be buying only 12400f but also a board. If you can get a board and 12400F for less than what you would have to pay for just a 5600x you might be right. Check 5600G as well. This one is cheaper as well.



That is true but its kinda moot point, even the 12400F is out of my budget/comfort zone and my use case don't really need it either so the 12100 is good enough and later down the line I can always sell it and upgrade if needed.
Updated B350 well, I wouldn't hold my breath for that and even then the 5000 serie CPUs are just overpriced here. _'5600G is ~310 $'_

Anyway waiting for the 12100 review to be posted on TPU cause thats what I'm mainly interested in tho I already know that its pretty solid for its price, based on Gamers Nexus's/Steve's review.


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## ratirt (Jan 19, 2022)

Sithaer said:


> That is true but its kinda moot point, even the 12400F is out of my budget/comfort zone and my use case don't really need it either so the 12100 is good enough and later down the line I can always sell it and upgrade if needed.
> Updated B350 well, I wouldn't hold my breath for that and even then the 5000 serie CPUs are just overpriced here. _'5600G is ~310 $'_
> 
> Anyway waiting for the 12100 review to be posted on TPU cause thats what I'm mainly interested in tho I already know that its pretty solid for its price, based on Gamers Nexus's/Steve's review.


Don't rush it bro with the purchase. Wait for the 12100 and see where it will get you. It may turn out the 12100 is the go to for casual gaming option not the 12400f. 
Time will tell


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## scheilinkin (Jan 19, 2022)

I wanted to get 12100F for a review, expected the price of 100$, but it turned out to be 230$. 12400 is 310$ currently in Serbia, and 12600K is around 450$. Basically every CPU is in line with corresponding Ryzen 5000. 5600G for around 230$ here seems like the best choice.

B660 motherboards are non existant, cheapest Z690 DDR4 is 220$ ... Cheapest B550 is 75$ ...


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## bug (Jan 19, 2022)

scheilinkin said:


> I wanted to get 12100F for a review, expected the price of 100$, but it turned out to be 230$. 12400 is 310$ currently in Serbia, and 12600K is around 450$. Basically every CPU is in line with corresponding Ryzen 5000. 5600G for around 230$ here seems like the best choice.
> 
> B660 motherboards are non existant, cheapest Z690 DDR4 is 220$ ... Cheapest B550 is 75$ ...


We all get extra-screwed in Eastern Europe (small markets, low purchasing power and whatnot), what ever made you even hope for a $100 12100F so close to launch?


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## ExcuseMeWtf (Jan 19, 2022)

Well I also live in Eastern EU and got my combo of i3 12100F + B660 + 16GB DDR4 for $320 or so.

Another story though is I had to RMA the thing since it doesn't POST. Hopefully it will get rectified...


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## Taraquin (Jan 19, 2022)

Xuper said:


> Hope @W1zzard , Publish next article about benchmark of Tweaked ( 5600X vs 12400F )











						Tweaked i5 12400F meets tweaked 5600X!
					

Got my i5 12400F and a Asus B660m K a few days ago and did a comparison:  Due to locked SA voltage (0.95V) I can`t run more than 3600 ram in gear 1 (using Silentiumpc fera 5 cooler) on 12400F atm, expect 3400-3700 gear 1 depending on bin. With stock cooler you will get 100MHz lower ram OC since...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




I did that already, can add more tests later on  

Spolier: 5600X slightly faster i games due to faster ram, 12400 runs cooler, uses a bit less energy, more efficient.


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## thelawnet (Jan 19, 2022)

ratirt said:


> Don't rush it bro with the purchase. Wait for the 12100 and see where it will get you. It may turn out the 12100 is the go to for casual gaming option not the 12400f.
> Time will tell


Where I am the numbers work like this:

* 10100f + h510m = $148
* 12100f + h610m = $220

For the 10400f add around $55 over the 10100f. For the 12400f you add  $70 to the 12100f

Therefore the cheapest gaming rig is:

* 10100f + h610m + GT 1030 gddr5 ($120) = $268

This is slower than the 5600g, but cheaper since the 5600g is $270 plus a510m at $50. Obviously the 5600g  is a worthwhile upgrade and objectively better value than a 10100f + 1030 system, but yeah it costs more money

The pricing of the GTX 1050 Ti is $245 and the 1650 $315.

The 1050 Ti pairs with the 10100f and will crush the 5600g

Now for gaming we can consider, w/board:

* 10100f $148
* 10400f $203
* 12100f $220
* 12400f $290

For gaming then up to a certain budget, the 10100f will crush the 12400f, because the benchmarks here with a $3000 GPU show the 12400 25% ahead of the 10100, but for $142 more which needs to be spent on a better GPU, up to a certain point (far better to have 10100f w/ 1050 Ti than 12400f w/ GT 1030)

Here the 12100f will obviously beat the 10400f for gaming, but it's more expensive in the real world, so that's only fair....

On top of that I'd note that the 10400f has six cores so is more future-proof than the 12100f, and will crush in true multithreaded loads, so at current prices:

1. 10100f for the cheapest systems
2. 10400f
3. 12100f - do not buy until prices for CPU and motherboard fall
4. 12400f - good chip, but this is several ranks up the tree and compared to truly budget systems, which contain 8gb ram, 256gb ssd etc., then the computer built on the 12400f is going to cost almost double the true budget PC


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## Why_Me (Jan 19, 2022)

scheilinkin said:


> I wanted to get 12100F for a review, expected the price of 100$, but it turned out to be 230$. 12400 is 310$ currently in Serbia, and 12600K is around 450$. Basically every CPU is in line with corresponding Ryzen 5000. 5600G for around 230$ here seems like the best choice.
> 
> B660 motherboards are non existant, cheapest Z690 DDR4 is 220$ ... Cheapest B550 is 75$ ...


$250 ?









						Core i5-12400F 6-Core 2.50GHz (4.40GHz) Box
					

OsnovnoKlasa procesora - Intel® Core™ i5Model - i5-12400FBroj jezgara procesora - 6Broj logičkih jezgara (niti) - 12Radni takt - 2.5GHzTurbo frekvencija - 4.4GHzProcesorsko ležište (socket) - Intel® 1700Keš memorija - 18MB Intel® Smart CacheProces izrade - Intel 7 (10nm)TDP - 65WPodržane...




					mattiva.rs


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## Taraquin (Jan 19, 2022)

thelawnet said:


> @W1zzard  please correct:
> 
> "As of this writing, Intel decided against launching the H670 client chipset, " - launched and shipping
> 
> ...


For ram, if you run xmp there is little dfference between 3200 and 3600, save money and buy 3200. If you tweak, 3600 is generally better dies which can be overclocked/tuned more. If you buy 3200cl16, find crucial ballistix 2x8, they are rev E which are easy to tune. I can run mine at 3600cl14-19-19 on my i5 12400F at 1.47V.


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## thelawnet (Jan 19, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> For ram, if you run xmp there is little dfference between 3200 and 3600, save money and buy 3200. If you tweak, 3600 is generally better dies which can be overclocked/tuned more. If you buy 3200cl16, find crucial ballistix 2x8, they are rev E which are easy to tune. I can run mine at 3600cl14-19-19 on my i5 12400F at 1.47V.


yeah I just bought Crucial Ballistix 2x8 3200cl16. Cheapest RAM on the market as well....


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## zmeul (Jan 19, 2022)

> Not everybody knows that "F" means "no iGPU". I want you to think about these +- points



OK, would that be a note and not a negative


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## thelawnet (Jan 19, 2022)

zmeul said:


> OK, would that be a note and not a negative


The 5600x gets the same negative, and it is a negative, because well, it means you have to buy a grossly overpriced GPU....









						AMD Ryzen 5 5600X Review
					

Six Zen 3 cores beating eight Zen 2 Cores? That's exactly what's happening with the Ryzen 5 5600X. AMD's massive IPC gain helped it overcome a two-core deficitm, even in productivity tests. The Ryzen 5 5600X redefines what you really need for a high-end gaming PC.




					www.techpowerup.com


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## Deleted member 202104 (Jan 19, 2022)

thelawnet said:


> The 5600x gets the same negative, *and it is a negative*, because well, it means you have to buy a grossly overpriced GPU....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Except it's not.  The 12400F is specifically a model without graphics. If you want an IGP, buy the 12400. The 5600X doesn't have the option of a model with graphics.

It's like ordering a hamburger instead of a cheeseburger and writing a review that gives a thumbs-down because it didn't have cheese.


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## W1zzard (Jan 19, 2022)

zmeul said:


> OK, would that be a note and not a negative





weekendgeek said:


> It's like ordering a hamburger instead of a cheeseburger and writing a review that gives a thumbs-down because it didn't have cheese.


You are 100% correct of course, but it's the best I can do within the format of our review conclusion page. 
Maybe to explain my thought process with the burger example: it still serves the purpose that readers will wonder "oh right, damn, no cheese. maybe I should actually maybe want to consider buying a cheeseburger?"


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## Taraquin (Jan 19, 2022)

ratirt said:


> Of course it is a different matter and for a 12400F that's the only matter because there is no other way. You can't use 12400f in any of the previously released boards. Even if you want to use DDR4 Memory you still need to buy new board. This accounts for a huge + to 5600g which makes it actually cheaper.
> CPU vs CPU sure, the 12400F wins but you cant picture it that way cause you can't only the 12400F, you need an entire platform and in that aspect, 5600G is cheaper or at least equal in price.


I never said you should buy 12400F if you already have a B450 or similar, that is an argument you made  My advice was for those building a NEW system, hence consider that AM4 is at end of life, while B660 will probably support Raptor lake.

If you buy a new system you can get a bit better performance for about the same cost: 5600G+B450=350usd where I live, vs 12400F+B660=360usd(400usd if 12400 and iGPU, you also get PCIe 4.0 and a longer lifespan choosing 12400(F).

Or you can spend more and get a bit better performance if you upgrade cooler (with stock cooler 12400F performs better): 5600X+B550+cheap tower cooler=450usd (420usd with B450, but loose PCIe 4.0 then).

As things are now I would recommend 12400F if bang for bucks is most important, but 5600G or 5600X if upgrading from Ryzen 3xxx or lower. You can disagree if you want, but this is my opinion and I own both 12400F and 5600X and love them both, I use the 5609X myself, and the kids use the 12400F 

2 wild cards is that some 300-series MBs get ryzen 5xxx-support now, and some B660 may support overclocking if locked CPUs like 12100F, but still uncertain. Asrock has BFB-support enabling up to 4.4GHz allcore on 12400F and 4.8GHz allcore on 12600, that would destroy 5600X in multicore workloads.


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## bug (Jan 19, 2022)

W1zzard said:


> You are 100% correct of course, but it's the best I can do within the format of our review conclusion page.
> Maybe to explain my thought process with the burger example: it still serves the purpose that readers will wonder "oh right, damn, no cheese. maybe I should actually maybe want to consider buying a cheeseburger?"


I feel these things come up often enough, you may want to tweak the format a bit. Maybe add a third category besides pros and cons. Others/notes/neutral/neither-here-nor-there... something like that.


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## tussinman (Jan 20, 2022)

Tsukiyomi91 said:


> this sub-$200 chip is an absolute beast in gaming with its limiter removed. And STILL managed to stay cooler than AMD under full load and when gaming while consuming no more than 140W? Dayum. Even if AMD did cut their prices for their R5 5600X to remain competitive, it gets beaten by this no E-core Alder Lake CPU easily.


Yeah it's a no brainer. The 12500 and 12600 (non K) aren't even rumored to be much more expensive than the 12400 and both will easily be faster than the 5600x.

You also have the advantage (if rumors are correct) of LGA 1700 being compatabile with 13th gen Raptor Lake chips as well so your not fully deadlocked which is nice


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## Mussels (Jan 20, 2022)

Pros, cons, On the fence?


Like if i was reviewing a B550 board it'd be an "on the fence" or noteworth fact thatx570 supports 2000 gen CPUs while B550 doesnt, whilst not being a negative since people would be super unlikely to buy a 2000 series ryzen these days.

If we want w1zz to add that third category of important trivia, we need a good name for it, that doesn't cause issues for non-native english speakers


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## thelawnet (Jan 20, 2022)

tussinman said:


> Yeah it's a no brainer. The 12500 and 12600 (non K) aren't even rumored to be much more expensive than the 12400 and both will easily be faster than the 5600x.
> 
> You also have the advantage (if rumors are correct) of LGA 1700 being compatabile with 13th gen Raptor Lake chips as well so your not fully deadlocked which is nice


Rumoured?

Right now I can buy

12100f for $121
12100 for n/a
12400f for $188
12400 for $220
12500 for $235
12600 for $260
12600kf for $300
12600k for $327
12700 for n/a
12700f for $348

The value parts are 12400f (12100f suffers from mboard cost and is not worth it) and12500 (GPU plus more speed).

The 12500 dominates the 5600g ($270) on CPU performance but loses on GPU. Motherboards are much cheaper for 5600g, however in normal times you'd do better to just buy the 12400f and append the money on a GPU, unfortunately right now $50 goes nowhere in the GPU market so the overpriced 5600g, still looks very good.

12700f is a better buy than the 12600kf because if you are spending $300+ on a CPU it doesn't make sense to cheap out with fewer cores


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## tussinman (Jan 20, 2022)

thelawnet said:


> Rumoured?


Yeah "rumored price" because where I live not a single official intel vendor (best buy, microcenter, B&H) have sold any of those 2 processors I listed. They either don't have it listed or they have a place-holder listing with "coming soon" or "notify when available.

Won't know the actual legtimate price till next month. Same with the B660 and H670 motherboards, listings are up but marked as "coming soon", "pre-order" or "estimate delievery 2-4 weeks"


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## Parn (Jan 20, 2022)

The price/performance is indeed very attractive with the 12400F. I'm wondering if Intel is going to release a 8 P-core only i7 ADL also?


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## Taraquin (Jan 20, 2022)

A thing to note is that there are 2 versions of 12400(F), C0 which is a 8P+e-cores where 2P and all ecores are disabled, and there is the H0 which is a true 6P only chips. The first chip may have higher latency, but may be easier to cool due to larger die, not that 12400 produces that much heat anyways. There may be differences in IMC since the C0 has the IMC of a i7\i9.


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## Assimilator (Jan 20, 2022)

Parn said:


> The price/performance is indeed very attractive with the 12400F. I'm wondering if Intel is going to release a 8 P-core only i7 ADL also?


Absolutely not.

i7 has always been 8 cores starting at an xx700 SKU and going up; since 12700 is 8P + 4E, a hypothetical 8P + 0E part would have to slot in below 12700, and there is literally no room in the stack for such a product. i5 has always been limited to 6 cores so no room there either.
Considering the low complexity of the E-cores compared to the P-cores, the former are not the part of the silicon that are likely to cause a chip to be defective. In other words, it's unlikely you'll get a chip with 8 functional P-cores but one or more defective E-cores, so it really doesn't make sense for Intel to reserve a SKU for that unlikely scenario.
The push from Intel is E-cores for i7 and higher SKUs, to allow product differentiation. See https://www.anandtech.com/show/1716...-lake-22-new-desktops-cpus-8-new-laptoph-cpus:





In short, don't expect a cheaper P-core-only 12700. Maybe next generation, but I doubt it.



Taraquin said:


> A thing to note is that there are 2 versions of 12400(F), C0 which is a 8P+e-cores where 2P and all ecores are disabled, and there is the H0 which is a true 6P only chips. The first chip may have higher latency, but may be easier to cool due to larger die, not that 12400 produces that much heat anyways.


I'm gonna have to ask for a source on that... while harvesting slightly defective dies for downrange products is standard, such a die would still have the increased L3 of the i7/i9 (12400 is 18MB, i7/i9 is up to 30MB), unless of course Intel has managed to fuse off L3 portions too (something I've not heard of before). The end result is that C0 would be a vastly superior chip, which would IMO justify a completely separate SKU; Intel doesn't like giving things away for free.



Taraquin said:


> There may be differences in IMC since the C0 has the IMC of a i7\i9.


IMC is identical across the entire ADL range - two channels of DDR5-4800 or DDR4-3200. The CPU SKU and chipset combination is what limits using higher speeds.


----------



## bug (Jan 20, 2022)

Assimilator said:


> Absolutely not.
> 
> i7 has always been 8 cores starting at an xx700 SKU and going up; since 12700 is 8P + 4E, a hypothetical 8P + 0E part would have to slot in below 12700, and there is literally no room in the stack for such a product. i5 has always been limited to 6 cores so no room there either.
> Considering the low complexity of the E-cores compared to the P-cores, the former are not the part of the silicon that are likely to cause a chip to be defective. In other words, it's unlikely you'll get a chip with 8 functional P-cores but one or more defective E-cores, so it really doesn't make sense for Intel to reserve a SKU for that unlikely scenario.
> ...


That picture basically disproves what you were arguing: if it makes sense to disable 4 E core on i5, why won't it make sense to disable 4 cores on  an i7?
I don't expect we'll an all P cores i7 either. But not for the reasons you gave


----------



## Taraquin (Jan 20, 2022)

Assimilator said:


> Absolutely not.
> 
> i7 has always been 8 cores starting at an xx700 SKU and going up; since 12700 is 8P + 4E, a hypothetical 8P + 0E part would have to slot in below 12700, and there is literally no room in the stack for such a product. i5 has always been limited to 6 cores so no room there either.
> Considering the low complexity of the E-cores compared to the P-cores, the former are not the part of the silicon that are likely to cause a chip to be defective. In other words, it's unlikely you'll get a chip with 8 functional P-cores but one or more defective E-cores, so it really doesn't make sense for Intel to reserve a SKU for that unlikely scenario.
> ...


From Tomshardware: '
MSI recently confirmed via a livestream that Intel uses two different dies for the Alder Lake series: One die has eight P-cores and eight E-cores (8P+8E), and another has just six P-cores (6+0). Obviously, the latter die is much smaller and thus more cost-effective, therefore making far more sense for use in the non-hybrid Alder Lake chips with six or fewer cores.

However, leaked testing indicates that the Core i5-12400 chips vary on a chip-to-chip basis and can come with either die type. That means C0 stepping chips like ours actually have a total of eight P-cores and eight E-cores, but Intel disables the extra cores to trim it down to a 6+0 design. Naturally, that helps the company sell larger dies that encounter defects during manufacturing. It could also help improve supply and manufacturing efficiency when there aren't enough 'perfect' defect-free 6+0 dies available.

The physical difference between the dies — the 8P+8E design's ring bus extends to cover the disabled E-cores and P-Cores — implies that the H0-stepping 6+0 dies will have lower core-to-core latencies. That could theoretically lead to slightly faster performance under certain conditions. Additionally, anecdotal evidence also suggests that the H0 chips require less power. We're working to source an H0 chip for comparison and will follow up as necessary. '

In cpu-z my 12400F has H0 stepping. 

On skylake, comet lake etc it was usual that you need the top model to achieve highest ram oc. Typically you could do 4600+ on a 10900K, but a 10400F might not do more than 4000 not matter what SA volt you pulled. It seems binning is both done on IMC aswell atleast for prior gens. I've seen several do 4000+ gear 1 on 12900K, but very few can do 4000+ on 12600K, and for the locked oarts 3400-3800 seems usual, but we generally pair them with cheaper MBs which can contribute.


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## Mussels (Jan 21, 2022)

Assimilator said:


> Absolutely not.
> 
> i7 has always been 8 cores starting at an xx700 SKU and going up; since 12700 is 8P + 4E, a hypothetical 8P + 0E part would have to slot in below 12700, and there is literally no room in the stack for such a product. i5 has always been limited to 6 cores so no room there either.
> Considering the low complexity of the E-cores compared to the P-cores, the former are not the part of the silicon that are likely to cause a chip to be defective. In other words, it's unlikely you'll get a chip with 8 functional P-cores but one or more defective E-cores, so it really doesn't make sense for Intel to reserve a SKU for that unlikely scenario.
> ...


Intel flipflop on core counts in each stack every generation or two, so while you can be confident they may follow their recent history you cannot be certain of it continuing
Look how many years we had dual core quad and hex core i7's (laptop) on the market at the same time as four, six, eight and ten core i7's in desktops

Look at the 10900k to 11900K, suddenly dropping two cores from the top i7 - and these were both compatible with the same mobos.


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## Assimilator (Jan 21, 2022)

bug said:


> That picture basically disproves what you were arguing: if it makes sense to disable 4 E core on i5, why won't it make sense to disable 4 cores on  an i7?
> I don't expect we'll an all P cores i7 either. But not for the reasons you gave


It doesn't make sense because _that's not how Intel wants to segment their products_. End of story.



Taraquin said:


> From Tomshardware: '
> MSI recently confirmed via a livestream that Intel uses two different dies for the Alder Lake series: One die has eight P-cores and eight E-cores (8P+8E), and another has just six P-cores (6+0). Obviously, the latter die is much smaller and thus more cost-effective, therefore making far more sense for use in the non-hybrid Alder Lake chips with six or fewer cores.
> 
> However, leaked testing indicates that the Core i5-12400 chips vary on a chip-to-chip basis and can come with either die type. That means C0 stepping chips like ours actually have a total of eight P-cores and eight E-cores, but Intel disables the extra cores to trim it down to a 6+0 design. Naturally, that helps the company sell larger dies that encounter defects during manufacturing. It could also help improve supply and manufacturing efficiency when there aren't enough 'perfect' defect-free 6+0 dies available.
> ...


Thanks for that. It's sadly so rare on the Internet that you ask someone for a source of data and they actually provide it, normally you just get "Google it yourself". Props to you!



Taraquin said:


> In cpu-z my 12400F has H0 stepping.


How much L3?



Taraquin said:


> On skylake, comet lake etc it was usual that you need the top model to achieve highest ram oc. Typically you could do 4600+ on a 10900K, but a 10400F might not do more than 4000 not matter what SA volt you pulled. It seems binning is both done on IMC aswell atleast for prior gens. I've seen several do 4000+ gear 1 on 12900K, but very few can do 4000+ on 12600K, and for the locked oarts 3400-3800 seems usual, but we generally pair them with cheaper MBs which can contribute.


Binning also doesn't make sense because that suggests that a perfectly good 1x900 could be bumped down to a 1x400 simply by virtue of having a poor IMC, which would be a massive waste of silicon. I think it's far more likely that Intel adds some extra circuitry, maybe just some extra caps, on the higher-end models that allow them to handle higher memory clocks. Hell, it could even be something as simple as the BIOS applying different settings for different SKUs (this is somewhat in the realm of conspiracy theory but sadly not something I'd put past Intel).



Mussels said:


> Intel flipflop on core counts in each stack every generation or two, so while you can be confident they may follow their recent history you cannot be certain of it continuing
> Look how many years we had dual core quad and hex core i7's (laptop) on the market at the same time as four, six, eight and ten core i7's in desktops
> 
> Look at the 10900k to 11900K, suddenly dropping two cores from the top i7 - and these were both compatible with the same mobos.


You're 100% correct, I completely forgot that the i9 and i7 core counts dropped by 2 from 10th to 11th gen.


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## Selaya (Jan 21, 2022)

actually the 11900K is just an 11700KS or something, that was by far the most pathetic 'i9' they've managed to conjure up thus far


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## Taraquin (Jan 21, 2022)

Assimilator said:


> It doesn't make sense because _that's not how Intel wants to segment their products_. End of story.
> 
> 
> Thanks for that. It's sadly so rare on the Internet that you ask someone for a source of data and they actually provide it, normally you just get "Google it yourself". Props to you!
> ...


Yeah, might not be binning itself, but other factors. L3 reads as 18mb in bios. I wonder if the C0-version has 20mb?


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## Assimilator (Jan 21, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> I wonder if the C0-version has 20mb?


That's exactly what I'm interested in. It's a shame that no reviewers bother to include CPU-Z screenshots in their reviews which could answer this, but IDK if CPU-Z would actually be able to tell you the real cache size or if it just has a hard-coded "i5-12400 = 18MB cache" entry.


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## W1zzard (Jan 22, 2022)

Assimilator said:


> It's a shame that no reviewers bother to include CPU-Z screenshots in their reviews


You mean this picture? Like on the OC page of each of my CPU reviews?








						Intel Core i5-12400F Review - The AMD Challenger
					

The Intel Core i5-12400F comes at an extremely attractive price point, yet offers performance comparable to AMD's Ryzen 5 5600X. While Intel introduced a Hybrid core design with Alder Lake, the 12400F is a P-core only design, which helps avoid potential compatibility issues with E-cores.




					www.techpowerup.com


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## Taraquin (Jan 22, 2022)

W1zzard said:


> You mean this picture? Like on the OC page of each of my CPU reviews?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting. You have the C0 full alder lake die with disabled e-cores and 2 less p-cores, I have the H0 smaller die which max support 6 p-cores. L3 is reported as 18mb so it looks like disabling e-cores removes the extra cache they hold.


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## W1zzard (Jan 22, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Interesting. You have the C0 full alder lake die with disabled e-cores and 2 less p-cores, I have the H0 smaller die which max support 6 p-cores. L3 is reported as 18mb so it looks like disabling e-cores removes the extra cache they hold.


This is a retail CPU bought in Germany btw


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## Selaya (Jan 22, 2022)

maybe mention said fact at the beginning of the review?


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## Assimilator (Jan 22, 2022)

W1zzard said:


> You mean this picture? Like on the OC page of each of my CPU reviews?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You mean the page of the review that I skipped because I know the CPU is not overclockable?

IMO you should include a CPU-Z screenshot of the chip at stock on the "Unboxing & Photos" page.


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## W1zzard (Jan 22, 2022)

Assimilator said:


> because I know the CPU is not overclockable?








Stay tuned


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## Taraquin (Jan 22, 2022)

Assimilator said:


> You mean the page of the review that I skipped because I know the CPU is not overclockable?
> 
> IMO you should include a CPU-Z screenshot of the chip at stock on the "Unboxing & Photos" page.


You can OC locked Alder lakes on Asus B660 F, Z690 apex and a few others


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## thelawnet (Jan 23, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> You can OC locked Alder lakes on Asus B660 F, Z690 apex and a few others


and let's not forget memory overclocking


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## omerfak (Jan 24, 2022)

I know it's pretty pointless and the answer is probably no, do you plan on reviewing the regular i5-12600 model? Regional/local pricing and possible discounts makes it a viable option sometimes.

Also great review as always. The method is there, the data is there. It's up to you what to do with it.


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## zatarcz (Jan 24, 2022)

Does it make sense to upgrade now from R5 3600 + 2060Super to 12400 (F)? By the way, in my opinion, the review is die C0 (8 + 8) not small H0 (6 + 0).


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## Taraquin (Jan 24, 2022)

zatarcz said:


> Does it make sense to upgrade now from R5 3600 + 2060Super to 12400 (F)? By the way, in my opinion, the review is die C0 (8 + 8) not small H0 (6 + 0).


I had R5 3600 before and generally if you play at 1080p 144Hz and use dlss there are a few games that can get a good boost. In shadow of the tomb raider 12400F is almost 50% faster at 1080p lowest, in other games the benefint can be anywhere from 10-50% at 1080p if CPU bound which you will be only when using dlss. If you play at 1440p or higher don't bother upgrading. 

Yes, review die is C0, I have H0, if there is a difference in performance I don't know.


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## zatarcz (Jan 24, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> I had R5 3600 before and generally if you play at 1080p 144Hz and use dlss there are a few games that can get a good boost. In shadow of the tomb raider 12400F is almost 50% faster at 1080p lowest, in other games the benefint can be anywhere from 10-50% at 1080p if CPU bound which you will be only when using dlss. If you play at 1440p or higher don't bother upgrading.
> 
> Yes, review die is C0, I have H0, if there is a difference in performance I don't know.


So far I play 1080p 75Hz. (1440p in the future when GPUs will be more affordable). I don't like DLSS and I use it very rarely (the image on the monitor is slightly blurred when using DLSS and I don't like that). I will not put new CPUs on my B350 and Intel, AMD, etc. have announced an increase prices  of 10-20% next month. So I'm wondering if to buy 12400 (F) or 12500, rather now :-/.


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## Taraquin (Jan 24, 2022)

zatarcz said:


> So far I play 1080p 75Hz. (1440p in the future when GPUs will be more affordable). I don't like DLSS and I use it very rarely (the image on the monitor is slightly blurred when using DLSS and I don't like that). I will not put new CPUs on my B350 and Intel, AMD, etc. have announced an increase prices  of 10-20% next month. So I'm wondering if to buy 12400 (F) or 12500, rather now :-/.


If you don't use dlss and only have 75Hz there will be very little if any benefit. If you upgrade to a 144Hz monitor in the future and upgrade gpu you will see benefit. From what you say my advice is to keep you 3600 as you won't gain anything by upgrading since gpu is not very powerful, you don't use dlss and have low refreshrate monitor, start saving money and buy a better gpu/monitor in the future, for instance a rtx 4070 or 4060 when they come


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## zatarcz (Jan 24, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> If you don't use dlss and only have 75Hz there will be very little if any benefit. If you upgrade to a 144Hz monitor in the future and upgrade gpu you will see benefit. From what you say my advice is to keep you 3600 as you won't gain anything by upgrading since gpu is not very powerful, you don't use dlss and have low refreshrate monitor, start saving money and buy a better gpu/monitor in the future, for instance a rtx 4070 or 4060 when they come


Thanks for advice. I'd rather wait. Maybe then I'll switch to AM5 (I hope DDR4 to keep my 2x16GB DDR4) and go a similar round like before "R5 1600,R5 2600 and R5 3600". The LGA 1700 is likely to end this year with Raptor Lake and no further upgrades will be possible. Or am I wrong? This is a big disadvantage.


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## Taraquin (Jan 24, 2022)

zatarcz said:


> Thanks for advice. I'd rather wait. Maybe then I'll switch to AM5 (I hope DDR4 to keep my 2x16GB DDR4) and go a similar round like before "R5 1600,R5 2600 and R5 3600". The LGA 1700 is likely to end this year with Raptor Lake and no further upgrades will be possible. Or am I wrong? This is a big disadvantage.


Yeah, atkeast tidays mobos won't support 14th gen. AMD is way better on long term support. Ryzen 3600 is a great value CPU and if you tweak the ram then it performs very well (in SOTTR I got 132fps 1080p lowest at 3000cl16 xmp, running 3733cl15 tuned on cheap Micron rev E I got 154fps avg, so 17% faster CPU from ram tuning).


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## Cutechri (Jan 24, 2022)

i3-12100F review when? Pretty much beats the 3700X and sometimes the 3900X in gaming.


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## Mussels (Jan 25, 2022)

zatarcz said:


> Does it make sense to upgrade now from R5 3600 + 2060Super to 12400 (F)? By the way, in my opinion, the review is die C0 (8 + 8) not small H0 (6 + 0).





Taraquin said:


> I had R5 3600 before and generally if you play at 1080p 144Hz and use dlss there are a few games that can get a good boost. In shadow of the tomb raider 12400F is almost 50% faster at 1080p lowest, in other games the benefint can be anywhere from 10-50% at 1080p if CPU bound which you will be only when using dlss. If you play at 1440p or higher don't bother upgrading.
> 
> Yes, review die is C0, I have H0, if there is a difference in performance I don't know.


I went from a 3700x, but saw the same: at higher refresh rates (100+) games do benefit from a CPU with better IPC. How much, depends on your GPU (with a 3080 and then 3090, i saw pretty good 30-40FPS gains in certain titles at lower GPU load situations)


If you're already on ryzen, i'd look to a 5600g/5600x instead and avoid a platform switch


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## zatarcz (Jan 25, 2022)

Mussels said:


> I went from a 3700x, but saw the same: at higher refresh rates (100+) games do benefit from a CPU with better IPC. How much, depends on your GPU (with a 3080 and then 3090, i saw pretty good 30-40FPS gains in certain titles at lower GPU load situations)
> 
> 
> If you're already on ryzen, i'd look to a 5600g/5600x instead and avoid a platform switch


Unfortunately, my motherboard is not compatible with the Ryzen 5000 series. I don't know if AMD will eventually allow an upgrade to the old B350 chipset.


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## Taraquin (Jan 25, 2022)

zatarcz said:


> Unfortunately, my motherboard is not compatible with the Ryzen 5000 series. I don't know if AMD will eventually allow an upgrade to the old B350 chipset.


What motherboard do you have? Asus and Asrock has added 5000-support to most of their 300-MBs.


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## zatarcz (Jan 25, 2022)

ROG STRIX B350-F GAMING. I have the system specifications in my profile .


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## Taraquin (Jan 25, 2022)

zatarcz said:


> ROG STRIX B350-F GAMING. I have the system specifications in my profile .


You probably get Ryzen 5000-support soon. Even entry level boards like this got 5000-support recently: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/PRIME/PRIME-A320M-K/HelpDesk_BIOS/


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## zatarcz (Jan 25, 2022)

But ASUS support told me that my board does not plan to support Ryzen 5000 (Czech Republic). PRIME A320M-K does not yet have the Ryzen 5000 series on the CPU support list, as I can see. But that would be great. The 5600G or 5600X would be a great choice.


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## bug (Jan 25, 2022)

zatarcz said:


> But ASUS support told me that my board does not plan to support Ryzen 5000 (Czech Republic). PRIME A320M-K does not yet have the Ryzen 5000 series on the CPU support list, as I can see. But that would be great. The 5600G or 5600X would be a great choice.


I don't think either of those is a significant improvement over a 3600.


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## Taraquin (Jan 25, 2022)

zatarcz said:


> But ASUS support told me that my board does not plan to support Ryzen 5000 (Czech Republic). PRIME A320M-K does not yet have the Ryzen 5000 series on the CPU support list, as I can see. But that would be great. The 5600G or 5600X would be a great choice.


There are several videos on youtube showing Asus A320m K running 5950X after newest bios. It has agesa 1.2.0.3c which we know support it  

5600X is a okay upgrade, I had 3600 ealier and in some games the improvement was large if using dlss and high refresh


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## Mussels (Jan 25, 2022)

zatarcz said:


> ROG STRIX B350-F GAMING. I have the system specifications in my profile .


You genuinely might.

Hell some people have found they can cross-flash 300 boards with 400 BIOS


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## Taraquin (Jan 29, 2022)

This is disapointing! SA-voltage is stuck at 0.9-0.96V if you run at locked CPU. This will allow for 3400-3733 OC in gear 1, in many cases you can`t even get 3600 stable. Shame on you Intel. Unless they change this and make it possible to increase SA-voltage I would say that 5600X is a better deal since almost all of them can run ram at 3800 or higher without problems.

*From MSI internal test, so far the result is as below,*
*All result is done by MP CPU, QS CPU might have inconsistent result as MP CPU*


Non-K + B chipset = cannot increase VCCSA (it sits around 0.91x to 0.92xV depending on IMC quality)
Non-K + Z chipset = cannot increase VCCSA (it sits around 0.91x to 0.92xV depending on IMC quality)
K + B chipset = can increase VCCSA (This scenario was not confirmed by Intel, but so far it worked)
K + Z chipset = can increase VCCSA
MSI's Latest Z690 & B660 Motherboard BIOS Improves Intel Alder Lake Non-K Memory Compatibility (wccftech.com)


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## Space Lynx (Mar 19, 2022)

@W1zzard I found this at a local store for MSRP, I am considering buying it instead of waiting for 5800 3d cache cpu April 20th. I got 6700 XT at MSRP recently, cause lucky... lol

Anyways, I feel like 5800x 3d cache cpu is going to be overkill for a 6700 xt budget 1080p rig.

I have one question though, in your review on the gaming sections, you have games measured 3x with this chip, one is no power limit, one is stock (ddr5 ram next to it) and the other is listed in the color green, 2.5/4.4  - is the color green stock with nothing adjusted in BIOS?  or what would I need to change in BIOS if I wanted to achieve the "green" (removing power limit doesn't seem worth it to me, as the green scores are close enough) I just need to figure out how the heck do I get adjust the settings to get green, if I buy it...

I think I just confused myself... someone help lol


EDIT:  I think green is just stock on all his reviews? can someone please confirm this. that would be excellent, I won't have to change any settings in BIOS if the case... just set xmp for ram and all done


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## W1zzard (Mar 19, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> I have one question though, in your review on the gaming sections, you have games measured 3x with this chip, one is no power limit, one is stock (ddr5 ram next to it) and the other is listed in the color green, 2.5/4.4 - is the color green stock with nothing adjusted in BIOS? or what would I need to change in BIOS if I wanted to achieve the "green" (removing power limit doesn't seem worth it to me, as the green scores are close enough) I just need to figure out how the heck do I get adjust the settings to get green, if I buy it...
> 
> I think I just confused myself... someone help lol
> 
> ...


green is stock everything, like it's listed in the specs table. some motherboards remove the power limits by default, in that case you'd have to activate the intel default power limit manually. green is like a baseline


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## Space Lynx (Mar 19, 2022)

W1zzard said:


> green is stock everything, like it's listed in the specs table. some motherboards remove the power limits by default, in that case you'd have to activate the intel default power limit manually. green is like a baseline



I am going to do this then, $109 b660m asrock gaming phantom 4 mobo (it has heatsinks on both vrms), and $179 12400f, and qvl ram for that mobo is the Patriot 2x16gb 32gb total at $125, combine that with my msrp 479 6700 xt, and i already have psu, case, cooler, etc in waiting. 

literally the most bang for buck budget system in the last two years the world has ever seen.  LOL  damn I am good. I am so good I need to start smoking cigars, cause damn.


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## Taraquin (Mar 19, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> I am going to do this then, $109 b660m asrock gaming phantom 4 mobo (it has heatsinks on both vrms), and $179 12400f, and qvl ram for that mobo is the Patriot 2x16gb 32gb total at $125, combine that with my msrp 479 6700 xt, and i already have psu, case, cooler, etc in waiting.
> 
> literally the most bang for buck budget system in the last two years the world has ever seen.  LOL  damn I am good. I am so good I need to start smoking cigars, cause damn.


If you wait 1 month you will get ryzen 5 5600 for 199usd, combine that with a cheap B550 MB (80-90usd) and you get the same performance stock as 12400F and better perf if you tweak it since 12400F only can run ram at 3400-3600 i gear 1 vs 3800+ on 5600.

I have both 5600X and 12400F and prefer 5600X since it's a bit faster i gaming and much faster in compress/decompress.


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## Space Lynx (Mar 19, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> If you wait 1 month you will get ryzen 5 5600 for 199usd, combine that with a cheap B550 MB (80-90usd) and you get the same performance stock as 12400F and better perf if you tweak it since 12400F only can run ram at 3400-3600 i gear 1 vs 3800+ on 5600.
> 
> I have both 5600X and 12400F and prefer 5600X since it's a bit faster i gaming and much faster in compress/decompress.



costs go up significantly though, I will need a better mobo (cause of ram speeds), so thats now going to be $170-180 min, and if I am spending that much, I might as well spend 20-30 more for a proper x570 tomahawk, then the ram itself, a nice high speed ram is going to cost me 200 2x16gb for 32 total bdie, to oc, thats another 200 vs 125...

and at end of day in most games i prob won't even be able to tell the difference. the whole idea here is budget.


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## Taraquin (Mar 19, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> costs go up significantly though, I will need a better mobo (cause of ram speeds), so thats now going to be $170-180 min, and if I am spending that much, I might as well spend 20-30 more for a proper x570 tomahawk, then the ram itself, a nice high speed ram is going to cost me 200 2x16gb for 32 total bdie, to oc, thats another 200 vs 125...
> 
> and at end of day in most games i prob won't even be able to tell the difference. the whole idea here is budget.


No, you don't need a expensive motherboard for ram speed on Ryzen, Intel on the other hand.... My cheap mobo (GB B550m S2H costs 100usd) runs ram at 4133/2066 without problems. Thanks to AMDs agesas you get same ram support on cheap and expensive motherboards. No point in X570 unless you need 2-3x nvme, 10+ usb etc.


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## tussinman (Mar 21, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> I am going to do this then, $109 b660m asrock gaming phantom 4 mobo (it has heatsinks on both vrms), and $179 12400f, and qvl ram for that mobo is the Patriot 2x16gb 32gb total at $125, combine that with my msrp 479 6700 xt, and i already have psu, case, cooler, etc in waiting.
> 
> literally the most bang for buck budget system in the last two years the world has ever seen.  LOL  damn I am good. I am so good I need to start smoking cigars, cause damn.


Good setup for sure. Congrats


Taraquin said:


> If you wait 1 month you will get ryzen 5 5600 for 199usd, combine that with a cheap B550 MB (80-90usd) and you get the same performance stock as 12400F and better perf if you tweak it since 12400F only can run ram at 3400-3600 i gear 1 vs 3800+ on 5600.
> 
> I have both 5600X and 12400F and prefer 5600X since it's a bit faster i gaming and much faster in compress/decompress.


Performance between the 2 (12400 and 5600) will be insignificant gaming wise. Price will be the same (12400f slightly higher motherboard cost but slightly cheaper CPU cost).

12400F would be the better buy since Intel has confirmed that LGA 1700 will be compatible with 13th gen Raptor Lake. Love the 5000 series but present day I wouldn't tell any gamer to buy into that platform, would rather lock into 12th/13th gen now for sure (it's no offense to AMD, it's just almost 1.5 years old at this point so there stuck inbetween generations).

Alot of these future chips there pushing (5800 3d, 5700, 5600 non-x) are more geared towards people that already have the AM4 platform and want to extend the life.


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## Taraquin (Mar 21, 2022)

tussinman said:


> Good setup for sure. Congrats
> 
> Performance between the 2 (12400 and 5600) will be insignificant gaming wise. Price will be the same (12400f slightly higher motherboard cost but slightly cheaper CPU cost).
> 
> ...


If you want raptor lake I too can recommend B660, but gamingwise 5600 will be a bit faster if you tune things since 5600X is 5-10% faster in gaming once tuned. I have both 12400F and 5600X max tuned so I know what I'm talking about  If you run them stock the will perform equal.

If prices are not that different I would get a 12600KF (100usd+ vs 12400F) and Msi Z690 P (+50usd on MB). This combo will be significantly faster (10-15%+ stock, 15-25% tuned with 3800-4300 ram gear 1 and cpu oc).


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## Space Lynx (Mar 21, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> If you want raptor lake I too can recommend B660, but gamingwise 5600 will be a bit faster if you tune things since 5600X is 5-10% faster in gaming once tuned. I have both 12400F and 5600X max tuned so I know what I'm talking about  If you run them stock the will perform equal.
> 
> If prices are not that different I would get a 12600KF (100usd+ vs 12400F) and Msi Z690 P (+50usd on MB). This combo will be significantly faster (10-15%+ stock, 15-25% tuned with 3800-4300 ram gear 1 and cpu oc).



12600kf just went on sale at a local store for $249.  going to probably pick that up tomorrow. price is unbeatable.

im disabling those stupid ass ecores though


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## Taraquin (Mar 21, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> 12600kf just went on sale at a local store for $249.  going to probably pick that up tomorrow. price is unbeatable.
> 
> im disabling those stupid ass ecores though


I would find a cheap Z690 if I were you, oc capabilities and generally better vrm etc  Since SA voltage is unlocked you can expect 4000-4200 (3800 if really unlucky, 4300 if very lucky) and up to 7000+ if good board on ram oc vs 3400-3600 (6200-6600 on DDR5) on 12400F due to hard lock on SA to 0.89-0.98v.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Mar 21, 2022)

If you are running it stock, the E cores will not hamper it in any way. I have run my 12700k OC'd and stock, both with E cores active and had no detrimental effect in either case.


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