# G.Skill Ripjaws V 3600MHz or Trident Z 3866MHz?



## FireFox (Nov 8, 2018)

Sup everyone.

Quick question, which one would be the best choice between these Ram?

*G.Skill Ripjaws V 3600MHz*

*


*




*Trident Z 3866MHz*

*

*


Thanks in Advance


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (Nov 8, 2018)

3866 better timing at higher speeds.


----------



## DR4G00N (Nov 8, 2018)

Trident Z all the way, they are likely B-Die with the A1 PCB which are the best for high freq with low latency oc's.


----------



## FireFox (Nov 8, 2018)

jmcslob said:


> 3866 better timing at higher speeds.



That is what i thought plus i guess they could be pushed to 4000MHz+


----------



## Vario (Nov 8, 2018)

Or do F4-3200C14D-32GTZ.

https://gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14q-32gtzsw or RGB https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14q-32gtzr

source: https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews..._Memory_Performance_Benchmark_Analysis/9.html


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (Nov 8, 2018)

Knoxx29 said:


> That is what i thought plus i guess they could be pushed to 4000MHz+


I'm guessing from those timings they are Samsung B-die...really can't go wrong unless the price is 30% or more...unless F*ck it! you want them for the right reasons....to tinker with


----------



## Vario (Nov 8, 2018)

I have the 2x8GB (16GB) 3200 CL14 kit and was able to go over 4000 with reasonable latency and voltages.

Also you may want to do Dual Rank memory, which provides additional latency benefit, but for that I think you need 2x16GB kit?


----------



## FireFox (Nov 8, 2018)

Vario said:


> Or do F4-3200C14D-32GTZ.
> 
> https://gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14q-32gtzsw or RGB https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14q-32gtzr
> 
> source: https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews..._Memory_Performance_Benchmark_Analysis/9.html



No RGB for me, 3200 ram not the best choice considering i already have *G.Skill Ripjaws V 3000MHz *OC'ed at* 3300MHz*



Vario said:


> but for that I think you need 2x16GB kit?



I would prefer the standard  4x8GB kit



jmcslob said:


> unless the price is 30% or more...unless F*ck it! you want them for the right reasons....to tinker with



*EUR 364,45* 4x8GB Kit


----------



## Vario (Nov 8, 2018)

Knoxx29 said:


> No RGB for me, 3200 ram not the best choice considering i already have *G.Skill Ripjaws V 3000MHz *OC'ed at* 3300MHz*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The 3200 CL14 is B die ram, it is the same ram as the 3866 and 3600 and can easily reach those frequencies.  If you can't go over 3300 now you probably don't have B die, what is your CL?

edit: see this page to get an idea of ram speed vs latency on Coffee Lake https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews...e_Lake_Memory_Performance_Benchmark_Analysis/


----------



## FireFox (Nov 8, 2018)

Vario said:


> If you can't go over 3300 now you probably don't have B die, what is your CL?



15-15-15-35


----------



## phill (Nov 8, 2018)

DR4G00N said:


> Trident Z all the way, they are likely B-Die with the A1 PCB which are the best for high freq with low latency oc's.



I believe that the lower speeds (not that 3600 or 3866 is slow or low memory speeds) but I believe that these are both not B die.  From what little I know the B die ram has to be the same number across the timings...  So something like this or these would be B die.  Unless you go past 4000+ speeds and buy very specific kits, you'll not get B die   I've E and B die kits here at the moment


----------



## FireFox (Nov 8, 2018)

Vario said:


> If you can't go over 3300 now you probably don't have B die



In fact it is not B die








phill said:


> but I believe that these are both not B die



Even there are not B die it is ok for me, i got my Ripjaws V  D-die 3000MHz to 3300MHz and i guess pushing the Trident Z from 3866MHz to 4000Mhz shouldn't be a problem 



phill said:


> From what little I know the B die ram has to be the same number across the timings...



Guess you are right.

But if the B die ram has to be the same number across the timings how it comes that my G.skill 15-15-15-35 it is not B-die?


----------



## Vario (Nov 8, 2018)

The 3000 and 3200 14-14-14-34 are always B die and it is often cheaper than the higher mhz kits but clocks to the same frequencies as it is also B die.  The CL14 is the give away.

Here is one of my dimms:


This site claims to locate SKU with B die, not sure how accurate the site is, but you can't go wrong with anything that is 14 cas latency.
https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/


edit: looking back at the coffee lake thread I posted 4300 on this ram without running obscene voltages through my IMC or anything.
https://valid.x86.fr/qpyumu


----------



## FireFox (Nov 9, 2018)

Vario said:


> This site claims to locate SKU with B die, not sure how accurate the site is, but you can't go wrong with anything that is 14 cas latency.
> https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/



And from that list i found the Trident Z *F4-3866C18Q-32GTZ *listed B-die, in the pic i posted above it is the same model number


----------



## Vario (Nov 9, 2018)

Knoxx29 said:


> And from that list i found the Trident Z *F4-3866C18Q-32GTZ *listed B-die, in the pic i posted above it is the same model number


If it is a good price go for it.   It should easily do 4000+ if my ram could do it.


----------



## FireFox (Nov 9, 2018)

Vario said:


> If it is a good price go for it.



*EUR 364,45*


----------



## hat (Nov 9, 2018)

That's a lot of money for ram? Only you can make that decision, though.


----------



## FireFox (Nov 9, 2018)

hat said:


> That's a lot of money for ram? Only you can make that decision, though.



The price it is not a problem at all


----------



## phill (Nov 9, 2018)

I know that my 3466 ram will do 4000, it just needs a little volts that's all   B die overclocking is 'fun'


----------



## FireFox (Nov 9, 2018)

phill said:


> I know that my 3466 ram will do 4000, it just needs a little volts that's all   B die overclocking is 'fun'



First i want to try stock voltages and see what i can get, i have seem people with 1.41V is it safe?

Copy and paste from another Forum:
G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3866 mhz quad kit overclocked to 4400 mhz with cl 18/19/19/19/37/ 2t @ 1.42v with no issues.


----------



## phill (Nov 9, 2018)

Yeah if there's a bit of an air flow over it, it's fine   For 4Ghz I think we had used something like 1.65v for the ram   Never really that much of an issue..  With some DDR3 using 2v+ wasn't unheard of


----------



## FireFox (Nov 9, 2018)

The Ram will be delivered on Monday, that said i will post after i do some overclock/tests


----------



## phill (Nov 9, 2018)

What did you end up going for in the end @Knoxx29 ?


----------



## Enterprise24 (Nov 9, 2018)

Ripjaws = higher sub-timings compared to TridentZ but you can always lowered it by yourself.
Also Ripjaws always use 8 layers PCB while TridentZ use 10 layers PCB so TDZ always overclock better. You may not notice in 1.45V 24/7 OC but difference when benching at 2V+ 4000+ 12-11-11-28 is huge.


----------



## FireFox (Nov 9, 2018)

phill said:


> What did you end up going for in the end @Knoxx29 ?



Trident Z 3866MHz and for what I've seen the model number *F4-3866C18Q-32GTZ*  should be B-die, i hope so.


----------



## Woomack (Nov 9, 2018)

I wouldn't trust in results from around the web. People say it's overclocking up to 4200+ but barely any result is actually stable for longer. A lot depends on the motherboard and BIOS. I'm not saying that because I can't set it so high (well, I can), I just see that all who are reading posts have high expectations and later are looking for issues in their hardware because they can't stabilize 4000+.

Samsung B is in a couple of revisions right now. Depends on the series, it can make ~3600 max or can pass ~5000 (these bad IC were mostly in ADATA kits as I remember). G.Skill is using better IC series in all 3000/3200 CL14, 3600 CL15/16/17 and everything 3733+. The same some other brands but at least from lower frequency kits, I would trust almost only Trident Z 3200 C14. However, new kits at more relaxed timings can be now Hynix or Micron. Both of them can make 3600 at CL18/19/20 and I guess this is in Ripjaws V 3600 CL19 kit linked in this thread. The same XMP can be found in Sniper X and competitive memory kits from new series.

Good luck with your new memory. It looks like a nice kit and should OC well


----------



## phill (Nov 9, 2018)

Knoxx29 said:


> Trident Z 3866MHz and for what I've seen the model number *F4-3866C18Q-32GTZ*  should be B-die, i hope so.



Looking forward to hearing all about it


----------



## FireFox (Nov 9, 2018)

Woomack said:


> A lot depends on the motherboard and BIOS.



Right now Rog Maximus X hero till the ASUS Rog Maximus XI Extreme is available where i live 



phill said:


> Looking forward to hearing all about it



I'm not asking for the end of the world or the third world war 4000MHz/4100MHZ would makes me happy


----------



## Woomack (Nov 9, 2018)

Maximus XI Gene looks like this:
https://valid.x86.fr/xhyu8g
Arrived yesterday so no time on stability tests but I'm not sure if I will use it for anything else than benching. I'm not counting to stabilize it anywhere close to that CPU-Z valid and I won't even try because of sick voltages but it clearly can run at high memory clock.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Nov 9, 2018)

DR4G00N said:


> Trident Z all the way, they are likely B-Die with the A1 PCB which are the best for high freq with low latency oc's.


are you the RAM God of TPU ? Cause I have a question. What budget friendly 2400/2666 kit can be oc'd to 3200 CL14 at reasonable voltage to run 24/7 ?


----------



## FireFox (Nov 9, 2018)

cucker tarlson said:


> are you the RAM God of TPU ? Cause I have a question. What budget friendly 2400/2666 kit can be oc'd to 3200 CL14 at reasonable voltage to run 24/7 ?



Someone told me that @sneekypeet Knows about Memory OC


----------



## sneekypeet (Nov 9, 2018)

Knoxx29 said:


> Someone told me that @sneekypeet Knows about Memory OC


I know a little.


----------



## Woomack (Nov 9, 2018)

cucker tarlson said:


> are you the RAM God of TPU ? Cause I have a question. What budget friendly 2400/2666 kit can be oc'd to 3200 CL14 at reasonable voltage to run 24/7 ?



Maybe not a question for me but there is no guaranteed RAM below 3000 that can make 3200 CL14 just because only Samsung IC can make it and all manufacturers use them in more expensive memory series. At 2133-2400 can be OEM series or something that can also be based on Micron or Hynix ... or even Nanya.
If you want 3200 CL14 then just buy 3000 CL14 or 3200 CL14 kit.


----------



## phill (Nov 9, 2018)

cucker tarlson said:


> are you the RAM God of TPU ? Cause I have a question. What budget friendly 2400/2666 kit can be oc'd to 3200 CL14 at reasonable voltage to run 24/7 ?



Any B Die based ram will overclock, just depends at what timings you want to how fast you can push it.  Any RAM overclocking isn't going to offer massive increases unless your running 2133 stuff, but a jump to 3000 or to 3200 would be a good half way house.  With the cost of B die tho, you're better off buying the speed you want ie 3200 and then pushing it further that way personally.  There's quite a price jump from what I've seen for it..


----------



## sneekypeet (Nov 9, 2018)

Just putting it out there...
Not all b-die is created equal, and not all clocks. If this conversation were happening a year ago, I'd agree.


----------



## phill (Nov 9, 2018)

sneekypeet said:


> Just putting it out there...
> Not all b-die is created equal, and not all clocks. If this conversation were happening a year ago, I'd agree.



I'm glad my stuff is about 2 years old..    It clocks pretty well thankfully


----------



## Woomack (Nov 9, 2018)

sneekypeet said:


> Just putting it out there...
> Not all b-die is created equal, and not all clocks. If this conversation were happening a year ago, I'd agree.



Worse series are usually already in memory kits at more relaxed timings like my friend was reviewing ADATA memory at 3200 CL16 and it could run at max ~3600 so about the same scaling as new Micron/Hynix and it was Samsung B. That's why I said that safe kits are these at already tight timings or something 3866+ where worse IC just couldn't be used.
G.Skill is still using 2133 IC which has tight timing tables and starts at CL15 (with lower or higher range). In my HyperX Predator RGB is B-die IC at 2400 with a base of CL17. It runs great at more relaxed timings but isn't as good at tight timings.


----------



## erixx (Nov 9, 2018)

Thaiphoon not working here (installed fine, but doesn't show any info of my ram.) "Has not detected any SPD EPROM device"

I have the Trident Z 3866MHz 16 GB Quad channel, but a version with a bit slower secondary timings than W1zzard's and Cadaveca's. Very undocumented.... Wonder what and how far i can savely go with them.

just found the Thaiphoon database, entered my part number and voilà!  Got an E-die.


----------



## Vario (Nov 9, 2018)

cucker tarlson said:


> are you the RAM God of TPU ? Cause I have a question. What budget friendly 2400/2666 kit can be oc'd to 3200 CL14 at reasonable voltage to run 24/7 ?


Get the cheaper B die kits, things to look for are the TridentZ and Rip Jaws 3000 CL14 and the Rip Jaws 2800 CL 14 kits. Some of the Trident Z 3200 CL15 are B die but there may be some Hynix on those SKUs, dig through this site: https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/




Woomack said:


> I wouldn't trust in results from around the web. People say it's overclocking up to 4200+ but barely any result is actually stable for longer. A lot depends on the motherboard and BIOS. I'm not saying that because I can't set it so high (well, I can), I just see that all who are reading posts have high expectations and later are looking for issues in their hardware because they can't stabilize 4000+.
> 
> Samsung B is in a couple of revisions right now. Depends on the series, it can make ~3600 max or can pass ~5000 (these bad IC were mostly in ADATA kits as I remember). G.Skill is using better IC series in all 3000/3200 CL14, 3600 CL15/16/17 and everything 3733+. The same some other brands but at least from lower frequency kits, I would trust almost only Trident Z 3200 C14. However, new kits at more relaxed timings can be now Hynix or Micron. Both of them can make 3600 at CL18/19/20 and I guess this is in Ripjaws V 3600 CL19 kit linked in this thread. The same XMP can be found in Sniper X and competitive memory kits from new series.
> 
> Good luck with your new memory. It looks like a nice kit and should OC well




I validated and was able to benchmark a bit at 4300 CL19 on the 3200 CL14 TridentZ, they were easy to overclock.  Only used something like 1.38 Vdimm and 1.10 VCCIO/VCSSA, probably had the head room to stabilize it or go higher if I tweaked the sub timings but it really made no difference in what i was doing so I didn't bother.  Probably was not stable but it did get there very easily without any hassle.  I bought the ram at the recommendation of Cadaveca. I just run it at 3200 CL14  XMP with the voltages set to 1.35 Vdimm 1.050 VCCIO 1.050 VCSSA.

Knoxx's current ram is dual rank, is the 3866 single rank or dual?


----------



## FireFox (Nov 9, 2018)

Vario said:


> is the 3866 single rank or dual?



Dual


----------



## Vario (Nov 9, 2018)

Knoxx29 said:


> Dual


Awesome, Dual has a slight additional performance gain over Single Rank.

You should also get a 970 Pro SSD IMO, make your system more zippy.


----------



## FireFox (Nov 9, 2018)

Vario said:


> You should also get a 970 Pro SSD IMO, make your system more zippy.



I have a 970 Evo and you hurt his feelings 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 first i need to see how much i get for my Ripjaws and maybe with that money i get a 970 PRO
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 since SSD price has dropped drastically.

The 970 Pro 512GB went from *EUR 319,90* to *EUR 170,90* 


Vario said:


> I just run it at 3200 CL14 XMP with the voltages set to 1.35 Vdimm 1.050 VCCIO 1.050 VCSSA.



Most of the time i avoid XMP, your VCCIO and VCSSA voltage is way lower than mine, to keep my Ripjaws 3000MHz at 3300MHZ i need 1.20V for both the only thing i didn't have to increase was the Vdimm voltage.


----------



## Vario (Nov 9, 2018)

Knoxx29 said:


> I have a 970 Evo and you hurt his feelings
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Probably can reduce my Vdimm I haven't bothered to try.  I only suggested SSD because it would make as big or bigger difference than the ram, and we can all use more storage eventually.  1 TB would be nice, I plan to do a 1TB 970 EVO in the next year or two.


----------



## FireFox (Nov 9, 2018)

Vario said:


> I only suggested SSD because it would make as big or bigger difference than the ram, and we can all use more storage eventually.



And the 970 Evo wouldn't make any difference or it has to be the 970 Pro for that?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




i was thinking to sell the 960 Evo and buy the 970 Pro but as i can see the* ASUS ROG Maximus XI Extreme *has 4x M.2, that said , i can keep both the 970/960 Evo and get the 970 Pro


----------



## Vario (Nov 9, 2018)

Knoxx29 said:


> And the 970 Evo wouldn't make any difference or it has to be the 970 Pro for that?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well I am still on 2013 SSD  but it is up to you if you want that extra little bit, then you can ditch the SATA stuff.  To be honest I don't know if the 970 pro vs evo difference is perceivable.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 9, 2018)

Compare your timings and voltage between the two kits.

Thats how I found out my 2133 ripjaws X kitw ould oc to trident 2400 specs, their timings are even lower at 2400 than what GSKill has them for.



Vario said:


> Well I am still on 2013 SSD  but it is up to you if you want that extra little bit, then you can ditch the SATA stuff.  To be honest I don't know if the 970 pro vs evo difference is perceivable.



Reliability.


----------



## FireFox (Nov 12, 2018)

I couldn't be happier


----------



## Vario (Nov 12, 2018)

Single rank though (1RX8).


----------



## FireFox (Nov 12, 2018)

Vario said:


> Single rank though (1RX8).



I don't know much about Ram, you quoted my post now i am lost 

All i can say is: my dream ( 4000MHz ) costed me 364€


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 12, 2018)

Seems like a huge waste of cash to me considering the lack of performance improvement...way to strap a fire hose to your garden spigot. 

...regardless, enjoy!


----------



## FireFox (Nov 12, 2018)

EarthDog said:


> Seems like a huge waste of cash to me considering the lack of performance improvement...way to strap a fire hose to your garden spigot.
> 
> ...regardless, enjoy!



You know me, nothing to be surprised if i waste money in things i don't really need, it looks like i am pretty good doing it, i wont never forget that time you quoted one of my post and wrote this: *You are beyond help though knoxx... we try to save who we can. *


----------



## DR4G00N (Nov 12, 2018)

Vario said:


> Single rank though (1RX8).


Single rank B-Die are better, Dual rank is only good for Ryzen or X299 since getting high efficiency is more difficult on those platforms.



Knoxx29 said:


> I couldn't be happier


Nice, they're exactly what I thought they would be, B-Die on A1 PCB (IE. they'll likely have more resale value later on).
You might wan't to try and tighten up those timings some though, G.Skill makes their kit's look as if they have good timings for the frequency, but they really just make the secondary's & tertiary's super loose to make it work. 

The Hero board may have DRAM profiles in the bios, I'm not sure, it may be too mainstream for them to have bothered including any.


----------



## FireFox (Nov 12, 2018)

DR4G00N said:


> You might wan't to try and tighten up those timings some though



If someone is willing to help me i would do it, i never payed attention to understand how to Overclock the Ram.

Note: only thing i changed was the Cycle Time from 39 to 37


----------



## Vario (Nov 12, 2018)

Knoxx29 said:


> I don't know much about Ram, you quoted my post now i am lost
> 
> All i can say is: my dream ( 4000MHz ) costed me 364€


Well you had dual rank before even if the speeds and subtimings was slower, there is a slight latency advantage to dual rank, but on the other hand you will be able to run 4000+, try for higher.

Looks like you got the same ram I have @Knoxx29 .

edit:


DR4G00N said:


> Single rank B-Die are better, Dual rank is only good for Ryzen or X299 since getting high efficiency is more difficult on those platforms.
> 
> 
> Nice, they're exactly what I thought they would be, B-Die on A1 PCB (IE. they'll likely have more resale value later on).
> ...


Hmm thought the dual rank was better for both intel and amd.



> Get ready for a big surprise! Our analysis of dual-rank DIMMs showed that Intel’s mainstream platforms work best with at least four ranks employed, and that getting there required either four single-rank or two dual-rank DIMMs. _F1 2015_ is known for being bottlenecked by both the CPU and RAM, so increasing the CPU clock to 4.80 GHz in today’s test allowed the four-rank advantage of two dual-rank DIMMs to be _excessively pronounced._ It gets worse for the single-rank pairs when I look at my notes and find that, at DDR4-3200, the _minimums_ were 71.4, 77.5, 86.6, and 113.0 FPS, in that order, for the four sets shown.





> Our recent review of Teamgroup’s ROG-series RAM further exposed something we noticed long ago: The integrated memory controller of Intel’s Kaby Lake CPU has a strong preference for four banks of memory. We knew this even before Kaby Lake launched, because that preference was also expressed in Skylake. Yet it wasn’t until we got new graphics and storage hardware that we were capable of seeing the extent of that performance benefit in a real-world test scenario. And by the way, the industry now refers to a bank of chips (ICs) as a “rank,” to avoid confusion between that and a bank of cells inside the IC.



https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/corsair-vengeance-lpx-16gb-ddr4-4600-memory,5344-2.html

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/7vy2zs


----------



## FireFox (Nov 13, 2018)

@sneekypeet what do you think is this any better?

*Test #1*





*Test #2*





*Test #3*


----------



## John Naylor (Nov 13, 2018)

Some apps will benefit from more speed, some will benefit from lower latency ... in your case, 3866 is better than 3600 and 18 is better than 19 so same pair wins on both counts making the decision an easy one

Rough rule of thumb for overall usage... doesn't equate but an overall expectation over all potential usages to anything but in relation to one another.

CAS x 1000 / Speed ..

19 x 1000 / 3600 = 5.28ns
18 x 1000 / 3866 = 4.66ns

I kinda stopped playing with memory after DDR3.

1.  There was so much misinformation about OH no... you lose the arranty if you exceed 1.5v on DDR3 (not) ... Oh no you lose the warrannty over 1.2v on DDR4 (not_  ... then ya go to the Intel QVL XMP list and see 1.76 / 1.70 on DDR3 nd 1.35 on DDR4 and Intel stating "we really don't like over 1.5v"   I have seen Mushkin DDR3 at 1.94 

2.  I really wasn't seeing anything performance wise ... yea memory benchies got me higher numbers but application and gaming usage were not imapcted.... other than the fun out of doing it, i wasn't seeing an returns outside benchmarks.


----------



## Woomack (Nov 13, 2018)

John Naylor said:


> 1.  There was so much misinformation about OH no... you lose the arranty if you exceed 1.5v on DDR3 (not) ... Oh no you lose the warrannty over 1.2v on DDR4 (not_  ... then ya go to the Intel QVL XMP list and see 1.76 / 1.70 on DDR3 nd 1.35 on DDR4 and Intel stating "we really don't like over 1.5v"   I have seen Mushkin DDR3 at 1.94



1.5V max on DDR3 was Intel specification for SB and it wasn't even tested by them if higher voltage can damage anything, as some Intel engineers said later. It was still in the specs later just because official Intel spec doesn't include overclocking. XMP is actually an overclocked specification and memory manufacturers can set this profile as they want.
No matter what warranty says, no one will check if memory was working at lower or higher voltage.
Early DDR3 were based on IC that was specified for higher voltages. It was like a bridge between DDR2 and DDR3. 1.65-1.9V was "standard" voltage for early Elpida, PSC or Micron IC.


----------



## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Nov 26, 2018)

Buy the one with the lowest latency.


----------



## FireFox (Nov 26, 2018)

I got the Trident Z 18-19-19-39 and now they are running at 17-17-17-37


----------



## Vario (Nov 26, 2018)

Knoxx29 said:


> I got the Trident Z 18-19-19-39 and now they are running at 17-17-17-37


And 4000? very nice.


----------



## FireFox (Nov 26, 2018)

Vario said:


> And 4000? very nice.



That's right 4000MHz


----------



## FireFox (Feb 4, 2019)

Did the Ram prices went up in 2019?

On *08.11. 2018* when i bought the *G.Skill Trident Z 32GB* i paid *EUR 364,45*





Today it costs *EUR 515,66 *

*

*

Is this happening just in EU or it is Worldwide?


----------



## Enterprise24 (Feb 4, 2019)

Vario said:


> Well you had dual rank before even if the speeds and subtimings was slower, there is a slight latency advantage to dual rank, but on the other hand you will be able to run 4000+, try for higher.
> 
> Looks like you got the same ram I have @Knoxx29 .
> 
> ...



Thanks for this post. I am confuse before about dual rank vs double side.
After a bit of research it seem that single side = single rank while double side can be 2x single rank or dual rank.
Fortunately my OEM RAM is 2Rx8 which mean dual rank.  I think I will buy another set of the same ram so I will get 8 rank in total !!
PS. I have b-die before that clock at 4133 17-17-17-37 stable. Performance different in Geekbench 4 ST (extremely memory intensive) with 5Ghz 8700K is minor. I got around 7000 with b-die and 69XX with my current cheap OEM RAM @ 3500Mhz. I think another 4 rank will bring the score closer to b-die. Not talking about extreme b-die like 3866+ 12-11 2V.


----------



## FireFox (Feb 4, 2019)

Talking about Ram:

I have always been confused about what is the Max safe Voltage for VCCSA, VCCIO and Ram? some users claim that for VCCSA, VCCIO  the max is 1.25V while some others claim below 1.15V but i have seem some users using 1.35V or more, at the end of the day i don't get what is right or what is wrong, the other thing is the Ram voltage, i have read that 1.45V is safe i know there are Ram kits rated 1.45V but those Ram rated 1.35V will they survive 1.45V for 24/7?


----------



## phill (Feb 4, 2019)

I always try to keep things as low as possible for fair gain to be honest.

I don't see the point throwing loads of volts through the CPU or RAM or anything for that matter for minimal gains.  For my 5960X for example, I run 4.20Ghz under 1.10vcore without any issues, the VCCSA and VCCIO are as close to stock as they can be even when running the RAM as fast as possible, it's as stable as I need it to be.  I think I use something like 1.2v for VCCSA and 1.15 for the VCCIO when I'm pushing it as with X99, high RAM speeds etc aren't the easiest thing to do on the platform..  As I am crunching with the WCG, I felt that I don't need the ram to be as fast as possible because it'll not make that much difference everyday and if I drop work units I'd loose more than I'd gain.  I'm better off at a slightly slower speed than something that's not quite 100% stable or even 95% stable for that matter.
As for volts, everything is relative.  If your running high volts (personally speaking) you need cooling it's just a lot safer.  More volts more heat more issues if things gets too hot.  Decent ram will probably cope with anything I'd say up to 1.45v easily for everyday and more so if it's cooled.  If your pushing 2v+ through it and not cooling it then it's likely it's not going to last for too long (but I'm sure you'll find something on the internet that completely blow that theory out the window lol)  Used to run some ram I had (DDR4) at 2v+ for benching with a fan over it, never even got close to warm..  Still netted me some great scores 

I think what you should be asking yourself is more so, how much voltage are you willing to throw through things and if things break or get damaged along the way, would you be prepared to or want to, to replace them...    Also depends if you're trying to get something stable for you or show off some bigger numbers than the next guy, as always, there's always a bigger fish somewhere


----------



## FireFox (Feb 4, 2019)

phill said:


> I always try to keep things as low as possible for fair gain to be honest.
> 
> I don't see the point throwing loads of volts through the CPU or RAM or anything for that matter for minimal gains.  For my 5960X for example, I run 4.20Ghz under 1.10vcore without any issues, the VCCSA and VCCIO are as close to stock as they can be even when running the RAM as fast as possible, it's as stable as I need it to be.  I think I use something like 1.2v for VCCSA and 1.15 for the VCCIO when I'm pushing it as with X99, high RAM speeds etc aren't the easiest thing to do on the platform..  As I am crunching with the WCG, I felt that I don't need the ram to be as fast as possible because it'll not make that much difference everyday and if I drop work units I'd loose more than I'd gain.  I'm better off at a slightly slower speed than something that's not quite 100% stable or even 95% stable for that matter.
> As for volts, everything is relative.  If your running high volts (personally speaking) you need cooling it's just a lot safer.  More volts more heat more issues if things gets too hot.  Decent ram will probably cope with anything I'd say up to 1.45v easily for everyday and more so if it's cooled.  If your pushing 2v+ through it and not cooling it then it's likely it's not going to last for too long (but I'm sure you'll find something on the internet that completely blow that theory out the window lol)  Used to run some ram I had (DDR4) at 2v+ for benching with a fan over it, never even got close to warm..  Still netted me some great scores



It is the same for me, am not at all a fan of high voltages even i know 1.40V 24/7 wont hurt the Ram i still prefer to use lower than that and for the VCCSA and VCCIO the lower the voltage the happier i am but unfortunately if i want to keep my Ram at 4000MHz/4100MHz i need to increase the  VCCSA, VCCIO voltage to 1.21V and the Ram at least 1.37V/1.38V which is more than safe and the only way i can use low voltages ( 1.12V/1.10V VCCSA, VCCIO - 1.35V Ram ) is if i run the Ram at it is rated speed ( 3866MHz ).



phill said:


> I think what you should be asking yourself is more so, how much voltage are you willing to throw through things and if things break or get damaged along the way, would you be prepared to or want to, to replace them...  Also depends if you're trying to get something stable for you or show off some bigger numbers than the next guy, as always, there's always a bigger fish somewhere



For daily use surely i am not willing to add any extra voltage and since i hate high voltages 1.21V VCCSA and VCCIO kinda bothers me.


----------



## phill (Feb 4, 2019)

The only other thing then Knoxx is that you can swap out the CPU and RAM and see if you can get better clocking ram or a CPU that will handle the speeds.  

I believe your a man like myself who would rather pay the extra to get something a little more than to buy cheap, as you know it'll cost you double the second time around.   With the ram you have, is it 4 sticks or 2?  Sometimes swapping out for less ram, will allow a higher overclock and that might help a little but it would mean spending more again.  

What's the stock voltages for the VCCSA and VCCIO on the 8086k's?  (Scratch that, I've just found a link....)  Tweaktown's guide for 8700k overclocking...  Maybe that might put your mind at ease my good sir?


----------



## FireFox (Feb 4, 2019)

phill said:


> I believe your a man like myself who would rather pay the extra to get something a little more than to buy cheap



You got it right
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






phill said:


> With the ram you have, is it 4 sticks or 2? Sometimes swapping out for less ram, will allow a higher overclock and that might help a little but it would mean spending more again, what's the stock voltages for the VCCSA and VCCIO on the 8086k's? (Scratch that, I've just found a link....) Tweaktown's guide for 8700k overclocking... Maybe that might put your mind at ease my good sir?



It is 4 sticks, yeap i am sure if i had just 2 sticks the scenario would be different, i read the guide from the link you posted and from my point of view 1.35V for VCCSA and VCCIO is way too much because after you set that voltage in the Bios when the System has some work to do the 1.35V will increase/spike almost to 1.40V


----------



## phill (Feb 4, 2019)

Knoxx29 said:


> You got it right
> 
> 
> 
> ...



From what little memory I have (maybe I need an upgrade....  moving on...) from when I was benching, we only ever used two sticks of ram because there was a limit using 4.  It stresses the IMC more so on the CPU and in turn requires more voltages for the higher speeds, exactly what we are seeing here   I guess this is why we are seeing people sell cherry picked CPUs for that very reason.

Guides are fine but how they test these things are a little different to what we might do, example, open test bench maybe not in a case, airflow and such..  It's a bit of a guess really.  But for me, considering the IMC and such that the VCCSA and VCCIO volts are pushing through the CPU, the closer to the limit I'd say the shorter the time that it will take for the CPU to degrade.  I wouldn't want to put more than 1.3v on either of those sets of voltages 24/7 and that's with active cooling over and around the CPU.  
This is why I run the 5960X so close to stock for these volts, if I damage the IMC the CPU might as well go in the bin....  For £1000 that I paid, I'd rather not damage the CPU at all even though I could replace it at a much lower cost....  I'd never get the same voltage when overclocking as I have right now.  Thank god I would buy a Ryzen instead


----------



## Enterprise24 (Feb 5, 2019)

Knoxx29 said:


> Talking about Ram:
> 
> I have always been confused about what is the Max safe Voltage for VCCSA, VCCIO and Ram? some users claim that for VCCSA, VCCIO  the max is 1.25V while some others claim below 1.15V but i have seem some users using 1.35V or more, at the end of the day i don't get what is right or what is wrong, the other thing is the Ram voltage, i have read that 1.45V is safe i know there are Ram kits rated 1.45V but those Ram rated 1.35V will they survive 1.45V for 24/7?



It seem that 9th gen require IO and SA more than 8th gen. My friends said they need IO and SA around 0.1V more at the same RAM settings compared to 8th gen.
Considered that we have XMP DDR4-4800 for now in order to run at those frequency 9th gen need around 1.4V IO and 1.45V SA. I am not saying that this is safe for long run but I think this is probably max limit on air / water.

Talking about DRAM voltage that is another story. DDR4 is extremely tough. I am able to bench Samsung B-die at 2-2.05V on air for several hours and several times without degradation (I always ran HCI memtest after extreme bench to check if it was degraded or not). 
Even Hynix AFR which I use currently is less voltage tolerance compared to Samsung E-die / B-die but it is happy to run at 1.85V for very long times. Scaling is probably end here as I cannot get more benefit from 1.95V so I didn't bench beyond 1.85V and it still work fine.

I mean after several attempt on 1.85V these cheap OEM kit still stable as rock.


----------

