# Looking to build a new system...



## Xerphon (Feb 25, 2009)

My current system is getting dated and I'm looking to build a new one. My current system is an upgraded Gateway GT5032.

Current System: (CPU) - AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+, (RAM) - 2GB DDR PC3200 Dual Channel, (GFX) - Sapphire Radeon X1950 512MB DDR3, (Mobo) - Cheap Gateway Board, (PSU) - Xclio 500W.

Now I'm looking to spend around $1,000 or so on the new system. I was looking at the AMD Phenom II X4 940 3.0Ghz Deneb Black Edition CPU. From what I've read it's very close the the performance of the i7 when you consider the prices. As far as the video card, a Sapphire 4870 1GB DDR5 Toxic Edition. Add in 4GB of Patriot Extreme DDR2 1066 and so far I think it's looking pretty good. However, I have been out of the loop for the past year or so, so before I pull the trigger I'd really appreciate some advice from people. Am I looking at some good stuff here? If you had to build a system for roughly 1k what would you be building? Thanks for any and all help!


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## h3llb3nd4 (Feb 25, 2009)

good choice on the cpu...
get a new PSU though


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## Xerphon (Feb 25, 2009)

I plan on going with a 750w to 1000w PSU, but other than that everything looks good? Oh and if anyone could suggest a mobo...


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## denice25 (Feb 25, 2009)

Its a nice choice, keep it up!!


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## h3llb3nd4 (Feb 25, 2009)

try msi dka790gx platinum if you don't want to oc
or the asus m3a32-mvp deluxe


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## spearman914 (Feb 25, 2009)

CPU: Phenom II 940 BE
GPU: Sapphire 4870 1GB Toxic, if you don't overclock then the toxic version is pretty useless, get a normal  4870.
RAM: 4GB Patriot Extreme DDR2 1066
Motherboard: Get H3llb3nd4's suggestions.
PSU: Corsair 750TX or PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750W

That should do it!


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## Xerphon (Feb 25, 2009)

Thanks for the help guys, much appreciated!


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## Xerphon (Feb 25, 2009)

spearman914 said:


> GPU: Sapphire 4870 1GB Toxic, if you don't overclock then the toxic version is pretty useless, get a normal  4870.



The Toxic is the same price as the regular, is it an inferior card? Cuz I thought the toxic was the better of the 2 and for the same price I figured i'd just go with that...


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## spearman914 (Feb 25, 2009)

Xerphon said:


> The Toxic is the same price as the regular, is it an inferior card? Cuz I thought the toxic was the better of the 2 and for the same price I figured i'd just go with that...



The Toxic has better cooling and overclocks better. If it's the same price then defintely the toxic. BTW where'd u find them at the same price??? link?


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## Xerphon (Feb 25, 2009)

On newegg... 

SAPPHIRE 100243-1GTXSR Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail - $229.99

SAPPHIRE 100259-1GL Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail - $224.99


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## h3llb3nd4 (Feb 25, 2009)

gosh! all you rich bastards!!


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## joytime360 (Feb 26, 2009)

If the Toxic is the same price as the regular, just go with the Toxic.


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## Xerphon (Feb 26, 2009)

Last question, since I don't plan on using dual vid cards or anything would I be required to upgrade the PSU now from the Xclio 500W? Keep in mind I don't have all kinds of extras in there, 1 HDD, 1 DVD Burner... and that's pretty much it besides the core components. I would like to just upgrade the PSU later if I can get away with it... and I know the 4870 requires a 500W PSU.

This is my current PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817189005

Also I've decided to go with the ASUS M4A79 Deluxe Mobo...


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## Thrackan (Feb 26, 2009)

Xerphon said:


> I plan on going with a 750w to 1000w PSU, but other than that everything looks good? Oh and if anyone could suggest a mobo...



Seriously, unless it's a crap brand, you can *easily* handle this with 750w.
If you want a PSU upgrade, get a good brand 700~750w PSU and you will be fine.


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## Xerphon (Feb 26, 2009)

Would I have to upgrade from the 500w? Link in last thread


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## Thrackan (Feb 26, 2009)

I'd upgrade that Xclio either way and go with something like a Corsair 620w. Very decent stuff.


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## lilkiduno (Feb 26, 2009)

I would just get either the corsair 750 or the pc power and cooling 750 both are great psu's and would deffently power anything you throw at it. Unless you decide to do dual 4870x2's and a gtx 285 for physX! 

But with a grand you could. Build a nice intel & nVidia build!


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## Xerphon (Feb 26, 2009)

Seems like the grand isn't going very far lol... thats why i'm so hung up on the PSU situation... A new PSU puts me over my limit, which is why I wanted to try and use the 500w PSU that I already have for a few weeks before upgrading to a new PSU. Based on the replies though it seems like a 500w won't power that system so everything is on hold for now


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## h3llb3nd4 (Feb 26, 2009)

Xerphon said:


> Seems like the grand isn't going very far lol... thats why i'm so hung up on the PSU situation... A new PSU puts me over my limit, which is why I wanted to try and use the 500w PSU that I already have for a few weeks before upgrading to a new PSU. Based on the replies though it seems like a 500w won't power that system so everything is on hold for now



good! wait till you get enough cash and buy a 1100W psu LOL


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## lilkiduno (Feb 26, 2009)

Why the 1100watt? The corsiar 1000 watt is more then enough. Right now I believe buy.Com has em cheapr then newegg rite now


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## BarbaricSoul (Feb 26, 2009)

Xerphon said:


> Would I have to upgrade from the 500w? Link in last thread



I would upgrade the PSU if possible. I don't think that PSU will be enough because of it's effiency rating. You want atleast a 80% effeicy rating.


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## Xerphon (Feb 26, 2009)

BarbaricSoul said:


> I would upgrade the PSU if possible. I don't think that PSU will be enough because of it's effiency rating. You want atleast a 80% effeicy rating.



Thanks for all the help guys


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## lilkiduno (Feb 26, 2009)

howh about i7 (920) and a 4850?


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## ShadowFold (Feb 26, 2009)

Are you still looking for motherboard suggestions? I've had the DFI 790GX and the MSI 790GX Platinum and I loved both. They both are essentially the same but the MSI has better cooling and layout. The DFI, admittedly, had a better bios. The MSI is WAY more user friendly and is still a pretty good board. As for video card.. Go with this HIS card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161269
My buddy just got the 512mb version in the mail and it runs really cool. Although it is slightly loud, it works very good. It's also cheaper!


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## n-ster (Feb 27, 2009)

what is your current display? let me build you a good i7 rig... I've been following it VERY closely since Jan, and I know the best bang/buck... would just help to know your display... PM me for any questions or if I forget to post the system I suggest tomorrow 

EDIT:

CPU+MOBO

here's the link

for RAM: OBVIOUSLY this... OC like Hell too

nice bang/buck this 4850x2

thats 745$- 30$ MIR = 715$ sooo about 300$ for the rest

if you need monitor : This is the bomb

905$ after monitor... ~100$ for case HD and DVD-RW? Ok...

HD: 500gb on a SINGLE PLATER (makes it much faster)

DVD-RW: basic

Case and cooling left? well there's about 15~20$ left on a 1k budget, so you might want to bump your budget up

will find you a solution and put everything together tomorrow, but I'll suggest a good case + fans, and if you don't want to go past budget too much, You can buy the CPU cooler later on...

for CPU cooler: this

so talk to you tomorrow!

EDIT2:

I just thought about it, you could step down the GPU ... so the 4830 is a great card... Here it is... 

That leaves ~130$ for case left including the CPU Cooler...

as I said, I'm on it tomorrow and I'll show you the final price in a shopping cart

EDIT3: actually, I'd suggest to to bust your budget to get the 4850x2... or get 4830 first, then buy 4850x2 when you got $$ and put the 4830 on your current rig


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## Xerphon (Feb 27, 2009)

Thankls for the post n-ster. To clear some things up, I have a Samsung 19" widescreen LCD monitor which I plan on keeping for the time being. I also plan on using the DVD-RW out of my current system. Basically, I need:

CPU
Motherboard
Video Card
Case
Power Supply
Memory
Sata HDD

I think that pretty much covers it... thanks again for the help. It sucks, you stop paying attention to hardware for a year and it's like so much has changed that it's like being a noob all over again lol


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## JATownes (Feb 27, 2009)

I run a Phenom 940 mounted to a DFI LP790*FX*b w/ a HD4850 and it is a beast IMO.  I love that all PCIe16 slots will work @ 16 with a single card.  Under $1K with a decent case, PSU, HD, & CD.  Heck maybe a cooler too.  Best of luck.


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## Famous Hobo (Feb 27, 2009)

Your psu is enough to power a 4870 lol. I'm using a 450 watt, which is the minimum requirement recommended by ATI.


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## Fleck (Feb 27, 2009)

I was running a 9800GT OC'd off the worst Thermaltake 430W PSU ever, with a single 16amp rail.

Most people overshoot their power requirements ridiculously.  I can see needing more than 500 watts with a SLI/Crossover setup... AND four drives in RAID, LMAO.  Kids these days.


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## n-ster (Feb 27, 2009)

there's a thanks button with a  on bottom of each post  I'll post what you need and total of everything in a bit


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## JATownes (Feb 27, 2009)

This would be my $1000 Box:
LG  22x GH22NS30 - $24.99
Lian Li PC-7B Plus II - $89.99
(2) WD Caviar Black 500gb WD5001AALS - 149.98 ($74.99 each)
DFI LP DK 790FXB-M2RSH - $169.99
MSI HD4850 OC R4850-512MOC - $154.99
Sigma Monster 750Watt SP750C - $144.99
(2) OCZ Fatality 2Gb (2x1Gb) DDR2 1066 - $81.98 ($40.99 each)
AMD Phenom II X4 940 BE - $229.00

*Subtotal: $1,015.91*

Get Fans and CPU or liquid cooling next month.  

Just my 2 cents for what its worth.

All from the Egg.


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## n-ster (Feb 27, 2009)

I must say JATownes, the i7 system I built up is much cheaper and better... nice try though


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## JATownes (Feb 28, 2009)

n-ster said:


> I must say JATownes, the i7 system I built up is much cheaper and better... nice try though



Not IMO.  I would prefer the lower cost on the 940/DFI to be spent on the Lian Li case.  The 940 is comparable to the i7 920, and is EASILY overclockable with the multiplier (easier for a noob).  I prefer aluminum for modding.  Prefer a digital readout on my MB and power/reset switches on the board.  Also I prefer RAID with 32mb Cache.  Performance gain of DDR3 vs DDR2 is negligible.  And I am not a HIS fan.  I also prefer a modular PSU.  Just my opinion.


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## n-ster (Feb 28, 2009)

I will argue with you later  gtg now


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## JATownes (Feb 28, 2009)

Intel vs AMD...How long has this been argued. LOL 

That is what is awesome about building your own.  You can build what you want.  Core i7 is pretty freakin' sick, and Phenom II is awesome too.  Same with ATI and NVidia, both have awesome parts on the market and coming out (though some a little rebranded  ).  Different brands, different models, different colors, liquid or air, aluminum or steel, silent of F-16 runway like.  I LOVE THIS HOBBY.

I envy you Xerphon, just because you are fixing to have lots of fun.


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## n-ster (Feb 28, 2009)

nevertheless, i7 has always been superior in reviews...


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## Fleck (Feb 28, 2009)

I was thinking of getting a Phenom X2 and then I read all the reviews.  I could have spent $90 on a Phenom X2 that is under the performance of my $120 E7400 or $150 on a Phenom X2 that pretty matches the performance of the E7400.  The choice was clear to me then.

This is my first Intel build since I dumped my Celeron 366@550 for an Athlon 900.


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## captainskyhawk (Feb 28, 2009)

n-ster said:


> nevertheless, i7 has always been superior in reviews...



superior in cost too, har har


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## Fleck (Feb 28, 2009)

captainskyhawk said:


> superior in cost too, har har



No doubt Intel has always had ridiculous pricing on their processors.  These are the only times I've seen when Intel has something decent to compete with against AMD in the bargain sector... since the amazing magical Celeron 366, that is.

Don't even get me started on Intel's $1,000 i7 Extreme.  I am shocked and amazed by this thing.  I really wonder what kinda person out there has a grand to lay down on a processor.  It took me a while to muster a grand to buy a car when my old one died on me, no way I'm gonna spend that on a CPU.


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## n-ster (Feb 28, 2009)

i7 is cheap... the 920 that is... common 550$ for CPU i7 920 + very good mobo + 3gb of great ddr3 memory... isn`t that cheap?


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## Fleck (Feb 28, 2009)

n-ster said:


> i7 is cheap... the 920 that is... common 550$ for CPU i7 920 + very good mobo + 3gb of great ddr3 memory... isn`t that cheap?



Yeah that is very not bad for someone who needs that kind of performance.  But for that much you can get a full PSU/Mobo/CPU/RAM/GPU combo that will run all of today's games with all the settings in the sky.


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## n-ster (Feb 28, 2009)

have you ever heard of the word "futureproof"? that's what I call an i7 system


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## Fleck (Feb 28, 2009)

n-ster said:


> have you ever heard of the word "futureproof"? that's what I call an i7 system



I'm gonna quote myself from a previous thread: OK I'm tired of this word futureproof. Nothing is futureproof. We used to know that back in the day. We'd get a brand new $300 piece of hardware and be like "Isn't it f*cked up that this is brand new and the best we can get it and it's already obsolete?"


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## JATownes (Feb 28, 2009)

I guess I am biased when I recommend the 940 & HD4850.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





She goes higher.  But this is where she sits 24/7

FYI: Factory AMD Cooler


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## h3llb3nd4 (Feb 28, 2009)

JATownes said:


> I guess I am biased when I recommend the 940 & HD4850.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



show your system specs...


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## JATownes (Feb 28, 2009)

AMD PHII X4 940 (stock AMD cooler), DFI LP DK790FXB-M2RSh, Visiontek HD4850 (reference card & cooler), Partiot Extreme 1066 (4x1Gb), Raidmax RX730SS, ALOT of air cooling. (btw it does sound like a jet when the fans are all maxed.)   http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/2001.html


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## h3llb3nd4 (Feb 28, 2009)

lol same with mine


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## n-ster (Feb 28, 2009)

THERE IS SUCH A THING AS FUTUREPROOF! futureproof doesnt mean it will be the best forever, it just means that it will play quite decently for ~3yrs... kinda like 8800gt back in the day still plays decently now

and JAT.... you still know i7 is better  and as for the 550$ being enough for a gaming system today etc, how about the price of the CPU + mobo + ram for your system? 480$ or so isn't much cheaper


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## n-ster (Feb 28, 2009)

LG 22x GH22NS30 - $24.99
Lian Li PC-7B Plus II - $89.99
Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST3500418AS 500GB - $59.99
SAPPHIRE 100260SR Radeon HD 4850 X2 1GB - $224.99 ( incl. 10$ MIR)
PC Power & Cooling S75CF 750W EPS12V - $89.99 (including 20$ MIR)
Crucial 3x1GB DDR3 1066 - $51.99
i7 920 + Gigabyte UD4P x58 - $499.98 (incl. 20$ MIR)

makes : ~1040$ for something that PWNS that system...


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## JATownes (Feb 28, 2009)

I guess my only response would be this:  Your i7 system-lowest rated x58 MB, i7 Proc & 3Gb DDR3 ram available.  My PHII system-Highest rate PHII, 790FX board, and Fatality RAM.  Also I say again, for the price, I prefer aluminum case, RAID0, and Modular PSU, and will benchmark right next to that i7 (even overclocked).  But hey if you prefer steel over aluminum, a single drive vs RAID0, and PSU cables that you will not need hanging tin the case, because in that case you might have trouble with cable mgmt. Once again, just my 2 cents.  BTW Nster what are you running?  No system specs listed.

Edit:  I also couldn't recommend the 4850x2.  My buddy has one.  Uses nonreference drivers.  He has had nothing but issues.  Also, WD Caviar Blacks smoke the Seagates (I wish I had WD Blacks).  Also, after the Cuda SD1A f/w issue I am not a Seagate fan (though I own 4).


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## ShadowFold (Feb 28, 2009)

JATownes said:


> Also, WD Caviar Blacks smoke the Seagates (I wish I had WD Blacks).  Also, after the Cuda SD1A f/w issue I am not a Seagate fan (though I own 4).



Same here, all my drives are seagate but I'm going WD from now on. 

I think you budget it right, a PII system is way cheaper and makes more sense than an i7 rig. DDR3 isn't really worth it, 8 threads is just silly since almost not a lot of games can take use of 4.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103472
+
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153125

3.6-3.8ghz easy. And he's already got the ram so that save 60-120$ right there.

And how could anyone turn down a 4870 for 165$?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161268


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## JATownes (Feb 28, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> And how could anyone turn down a 4870 for 165$?
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161268



Wow.  Didn't see that.  Good eye.  Definite revision to the 4870 @ $165


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## Xerphon (Feb 28, 2009)

Been doing some more reading lately... I seem to remember something about new hardware coming out in march/april... would it be wise to hold off until then? I'd hate to build my new system and have a bunch of new hardware come out a couple weeks later. Again I would like to thank everyone for their help and input!


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## Thrackan (Feb 28, 2009)

If you have the time and patience, that's not a bad idea.


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## JATownes (Feb 28, 2009)

IMO, in the price range of around $1k, only advantage in waiting would be AM3 processors and board, but I am not a fan of the DDR3 price/performance curve.  Also RV790 GPUs are due out soon as well.  That might very well be worth waiting for.  

I do not know about the Intel/Nvidia lineup, so I cannot offer an opinion on that.


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## Xerphon (Feb 28, 2009)

Even if I decide not to go with an AM3 DDR3 setup, I'm sure the prices for the current hardware will drop a little so I think I will end up waiting. Especially for the new GPU's...


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## n-ster (Mar 1, 2009)

first of all... the crucial ddr3 is 50$ for 3gb... I'm pretty sure 4gb of ddr2 800, which performs worse, costs more than 50$ or similar to it

second, I do prefer WD drives, but THAT seagate (7200.12) is AWESOME... it's one of the fastest 7200rpm HDs... he can raid 0 them if he wants...

third, I took the case YOU CHOSE!!! WTH?????

fourth, paying 50 or 60$ for a modular PSU vs a non-modular is just plain stupid

fifth, the 4850x2 is a great GPU... tell your friend to go on ATI's site, since they started supporting it with their drivers... but just replace that with the 4870 if you want... that makes -60$ for GPU but +60$ for RAID 0

so you got the raid 0 you wanted... the same price as I listed before so almost same price as yours, and smokes your PII system...

OHHHHHHH and your saying UD4P IS LOW END MOBO??????? dude, cheap in price doesn't mean anything... do your research before talking

Now the only advantage your system has is that it has a bit better cable management...

I don't have a rig... but I've spent countless hours on research and helping others


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## JATownes (Mar 1, 2009)

n-ster said:


> I don't have a rig... but I've spent countless hours on research and helping others



LOL.  I have three at home, and am the IT manager at our firm.  So I will take your advice.  LOL  Temper Temper.  Sorry if I hurt your feelings.    You can like your i7 rig and I will like my 940.  Hey, when you get an I7 rig, we can bench them together to see who is right.  Until then I will let my screenshots speak for themselves.  When you get screen shots, let me know.  LOL 

What would you consider a "low end" X58 board then?

And didn't Xerphon say he was looking at an AMD??  Why are you so irritated that I recommended one??  Note I always said all of this was just IMO.  If it will make you feel better I will say you are right.  But I still do not agree.  Price/Performance - AMD/ATI FTW


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## ShadowFold (Mar 1, 2009)

I've seriously not seen a 100% stable X58 board yet. All I see nowadays are "My X58 board has something wrong with it" and with an X58 board you have no upgrade options. I have a bad feeling that Intel is going to release their next chips for a different socket, making that 300-500$ X58 board useless.


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## JATownes (Mar 1, 2009)

n-ster said:


> and smokes your PII system...



Define smokes??  Runs right next to??  Ties??


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## n-ster (Mar 1, 2009)

problems with x58?? since when??? nowadays i7 is a better price/performance or at least equal to a PII system... at least compared to what YOU offered

a low end x58 board would be those who can't even support SLI/crossfire and possibly don't OC well at all... there are very few low-end x58 boards indeed... BUT the GB ud4p ud5, extreme, DFI DK or UT etc... are all high end boards since they OC very well

show me a review that says PII > i7 PLEASE!

now tell me... what does the system I offered have less than yours except better cable management? and if you agree with me that i7 is AT LEAST a bit better than a PII... wouldn't you also agree that my system would be better bang/buck?

it seems that you don't understand that I'm not bashing AMD... I'm trying to say that what YOU offered is less good then what I offered... I'm pretty sure 82$ for that ram is a bit overpriced no?
IMO this is better... paying 55$ more for modular??? just with these 2 changes, the price that you're offering goes down by 100$... I'm not saying going AMD is worse bang/buck, I'm saying that with what your offering, it is...

you think your OC is good??? well guess what... clock for clock, i7 is MUCH better than a PII... so what if I OC the i7 to only 3.5? it'll still smoke a PII

yes it smokes it... meaning runs quite FASTER than yours... the HD is faster, since it's 1 platter 500gb or AT LEAST same performance... MUCH FASTER CPU (i7 vs PII).... Faster RAM (ddr3 vs ddr2)..... a better GPU (4870 vs 4850)

ties with ? No i don't think so... 

300$-500$????????? that boards priced at 210$..... that's a HUGE 40$ more for the mobo?

Let's see what FIT would say to compare i7 and PII if it were the same price.. let's see what CP would say... guess the answer... have you seen Fit's i7 thread? You might want to read it...

Don't think that just because I have no rig, I would be less competent than you to suggest something bang/buck.. if he want's AMD, he can get it... but he could get the RAM I link in this post and the non-modular PSU... he'll save 100$, making it a much better bang/buck then what you suggested...

btw, please don't treat me like a kid... I treat you like an adult, so I would like the favor back


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## JATownes (Mar 1, 2009)

n-ster said:


> show me a review that says PII > i7 PLEASE!



http://www.legitreviews.com/article/860/9/
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/860/11/  I will give you Assassin's Creed.
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/860/12/

http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-phenom-ii-x4-920-and-940-review-test/17
http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-phenom-ii-x4-920-and-940-review-test/18
http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-phenom-ii-x4-920-and-940-review-test/19
http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-phenom-ii-x4-920-and-940-review-test/21

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/phenomii940/9.htm <-- OC runs next to the i965
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/phenomii940/10.htm <-- best the i965
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/phenomii940/13.htm
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/phenomii940/14.htm <-- best the i965

http://www.techspot.com/review/137-amd-phenom2-x4-940-920/page12.html

There are a few.  Granted, I usually play games, which is where the PII shines.

I like the reaper ram, but probs with the tall heatsink and CPU cooler mounting.

Oh, and the PSU I recommended is 114.  Typo.  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817226008

And sorry for recommending something other than yours.  I thought that was the point of the forum.  I will think twice next time before giving an opinion.  Sorry.


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## JATownes (Mar 1, 2009)

And FYI, VERY proud of my clocks on a factory AMD cooler.


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## ShadowFold (Mar 1, 2009)

I have to agree with JAT here. Gaming wise it doesn't really matter what you pick up. They are pretty much the same at higher resolutions so grab the cheapest.


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## n-ster (Mar 3, 2009)

I was arguing about the price... PII systems like that shouldn't cost 1k+.... at 115$ PSU, getting the RAM I linked etc, you can easily save A LOT of money, making the PII as good buy as an i7... again I'll say, I'm not arguing that PII is bad, because it's not at all... I was saying that at that price, you could get a better i7 system... what I'm saying is that the parts that YOU picked at the prices YOU listed were way overpriced and therefore aren't worth it compared to the i7 system... 

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear... all I wanted was you to rectify your choices to make that PII system a much better buy...


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