# What does mK mean?



## hat (Dec 29, 2009)

I see "mK" referred to a lot as a measurement for heat transfer, but I don't know what it actually means.


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## EnergyFX (Dec 29, 2009)

micro kelvin???  guessing.


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## SummerDays (Dec 29, 2009)

Scientists use Kelvin as the SI unit for temperature.

mK would be milli Kelvin or 1/1000th of a Kelvin degree .

The Kelvin unit of measurement is the same as Celcius, except that it starts at absolute zero 

and each Kelvin degree is equal to one degree of Celcius.


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## SummerDays (Dec 29, 2009)

btw, Lord Kelvin's work helped us to understand thermodynamics.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 29, 2009)

MORTAL KOMBAT! 

Da,Da..Da,Da,..Da,Da,...Da,Da,...Da,.....Da...MOOOOOOOOORTAL KOOOOOOOOMBAT!


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## Frick (Dec 29, 2009)

Fahrenheit confuses the heck out of me. It doesn't make sense, escpecially when you go down to minusgrades.


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## FordGT90Concept (Dec 29, 2009)

Farenheit = 180 degrees (literally) between freezing (32F) and boiling (212F).
Celcius = 100 degrees between freezing (0C) and boiling (100C).
Kelvin = 100 degrees between freezing (273.15K) and boiling (373.15K).

Farenheit (1724) was invented before Celcius (1742).


As with all scientific vs customary units, scientific is great for conversions (being based on multiples of 10) while customary units are more practical (a foot was originally based on the length of the king's foot, a yard based on the king's stride, Farenheit based on a rotating thermometer, etc.).


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## Frick (Dec 29, 2009)

They might have been practical in the olden days, but not anymore imo. Everything should be in tens.


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## DirectorC (Dec 29, 2009)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Farenheit = 180 degrees (literally) between freezing (32F) and boiling (212F).
> 
> Farenheit based on a rotating thermometer



Oh nice.  I don't know if they didn't teach us that part in school or if I wasn't paying attention, but that's really cool to know.


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## hat (Dec 29, 2009)

So... copper has a thermal conductivity of 385W/mK. So... it conducts 385 thousanths of 1 degree Kelvin?


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## HossHuge (Dec 29, 2009)

SummerDays said:


> btw, Lord Kelvin's work helped us to understand thermodynamics.



I just read about him the other day (Bill Bryson - A Short History of Nearly Everything). Great Book BTW



TheMailMan78 said:


> MORTAL KOMBAT!
> 
> Da,Da..Da,Da,..Da,Da,...Da,Da,...Da,.....Da...MOOOOOOOOORTAL KOOOOOOOOMBAT!



Tee Hee..


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## DirectorC (Dec 29, 2009)

hat said:


> So... copper has a thermal conductivity of 385W/mK. So... it conducts 385 thousanths of 1 degree Kelvin?



I read it as 385Watts per thousandth of degree Kelvin?


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## Deleted member 3 (Dec 29, 2009)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Farenheit = 180 degrees (literally) between freezing (32F) and boiling (212F).
> Celcius = 100 degrees between freezing (0C) and boiling (100C).
> Kelvin = 100 degrees between freezing (273.15K) and boiling (373.15K).
> 
> ...



How exactly is that practical? How many inches is 187 feet and 7 inches? Ah wait let me get that, 200x12= 2244+7=2251, right, practical.

How many cm is 187m and 7 cm? 18707, simple.

It gets even worse with yards, furlongs, miles and leagues. 

All those imperial standards are just idiotic and outdated, though it's not easy to change such uses country wide.


Also it has nothing to do with small kelvins, it's meters, it's conductivity. Google Thermal Conductivity. It's quite a bit to explain and I don't remember it exactly either (been years since I took those classes)


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## btarunr (Dec 29, 2009)

mK/W is "Kelvin-metres per Watt"

These great nations did not find the metric system practical:







That's Liberia, Burma, and the US.


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## Deleted member 3 (Dec 29, 2009)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_conductivity

In physics, thermal conductivity, k, is the property of a material that indicates its ability to conduct heat. It appears primarily in Fourier's Law for heat conduction.

Lol, K also is the property itself. Later on it lists Thermal conductivity
W/(m·K)  and K links to Kelvin and m to Meter. How confusing, now I remember when I quit that school after a year


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## MomentoMoir (Dec 29, 2009)

btarunr said:


> mK/W is "Kelvin-metres per Watt"
> 
> These great nations did not find the metric system practical:
> 
> ...



sadly i wish are school would have taught us it


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## FordGT90Concept (Dec 29, 2009)

DanTheBanjoman said:


> How exactly is that practical? How many inches is 187 feet and 7 inches? Ah wait let me get that, 200x12= 2244+7=2251, right, practical.


187' 7"

When all your measuring tapes work the same, conversions are unnecessary.  No need for lengthy decimals with hundreds, thousandths, etc.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 29, 2009)

Ford normally I would back you up on defending something the US does if I agreed with it. However Bta and Dan are correct on this one. The metric is just simply better.


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## Deleted member 3 (Dec 29, 2009)

FordGT90Concept said:


> 187' 7"
> 
> When all your measuring tapes work the same, conversions are unnecessary.  No need for lengthy decimals with hundreds, thousandths, etc.




So you consider 100.000 cm (or 10KM) confusing because it's long? Google says 10KM = 6.21371192 Miles. care to tell me how many inches, feet, penises, foreheads, legs and tales that is? Give me any decimal number and I can tell you how many metric units of any kind it is in a second, no thinking or calculating required, I can just read it.


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## hat (Dec 29, 2009)

Dan must know that King Henry died drinking chocolate milk.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 29, 2009)

I was taught the metric system in school years ago. I use it sometimes but I honestly wish the US adopted it.

The only defense I can give is we once tried to adopt the system. It was a disaster.


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## FordGT90Concept (Dec 29, 2009)

DanTheBanjoman said:


> So you consider 100.000 cm (or 10KM) confusing because it's long? Google says 10KM = 6.21371192 Miles.


You are trying to force the customary system to fit into the metric system resulting in metric-like results (0.21371192).  The customary system refrains from using decimals and prefers either fractional notation or other units of measurements.  For example, 10 KM converted to customary would be given as approximately 6 miles, 1128 feet.  It is not as exact but it is easier to follow.

Don't get me started on 100.000,00 compared to 100,000.00.

Again, conversion isn't the customary system's strong point; relaying information using whole numbers rather than decimals is.


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## Frick (Dec 29, 2009)

What's wrong with decimals? They are awesome.


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## Deleted member 3 (Dec 29, 2009)

Frick said:


> What's wrong with decimals? They are awesome.



Awesome is not exactly the word I'd use 


Imagine an army of decimals inspiring awe to hordes of innocent feet hiding in the back yard.


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## FordGT90Concept (Dec 29, 2009)

Frick said:


> What's wrong with decimals? They are awesome.


They're inconvenient. 


Personally, I think having both systems available is best.  If you are doing something scientific where lots of conversions will be necessary, use SI.  If you are trying to refer to something in layman's terms or implied approximations, use customary.  We Americans have the right tool for every job.


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## Deleted member 3 (Dec 29, 2009)

Are you saying many Americans are tools?


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 29, 2009)

Tools are a good example of WTF is wrong with our current system. Have you ever tried to drop a transmission on a Chevy truck that was built in Canada?! Half the damn truck is in SI and the other is metric.

Its stupid having to have two sets of tools that do the exact same thing. Is it 9/16ths? Nope its 10mm. (Shuffles in his tool box) F#@K where is my metric set?!

Hello everyone. I'm an American that thinks the WORLD is right using the metric system. I've been addicted for 30 years.


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## Deleted member 3 (Dec 29, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I've been addicted for 30 years.



If you show me your liver I'll show you mine.



Either way, sizes like 9/16th, really... wtf?


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## FordGT90Concept (Dec 29, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Tools are a good example of WTF is wrong with our current system. Have you ever tried to drop a transmission on a Chevy truck that was built in Canada?! Half the damn truck is in SI and the other is metric.


Thank GM for that.  They earned that chapter 11 filing.




DanTheBanjoman said:


> Either way, sizes like 9/16th, really... wtf?


9/16" = 0.5625" = 14.2875 mm (estimate)

Would you rather have a 9/16" or a 14.2875 mm wrench?  They are like oil and water: they work great separately but don't dare mix them.


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## Deleted member 3 (Dec 29, 2009)

Both are silly sizes, make it 14mm.


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## MRCL (Dec 29, 2009)

It is horrid in watercooling... The fittings here are advertised in inch, like 1/4 inch fittings, but the tubing is in metric, like 10/8mm. So as a beginner, it is a requirement to have a conversion table at hand. 

And cars. I watch the Top Gear blokes talk about fuel economy in miles to the gallon. I'm like okay, I roughly know what a mile is to a kilometer, but wtf gallon? 9 litres per 100 km is a lot easier to comprehend than 6 miles to the gallon, which is roughly 10 kilometers per 3.8 litres... I mean come on!


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## mikek75 (Dec 29, 2009)

Oh dear, here we go again, Europeans trying to impose their system on the rest of civilisation. Yes, I know the Swiss don't like to get involved in such matters!

Imperial measurements make just as much sense as metric, it just depends on what you were bought up with. Here in the UK we use both quite sucessfully. MPG, MPH and gallons are very simple to use. When I worked for BMW Motorrad it always confused the hell out of me thinking in litres per 100km.


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## Frick (Dec 29, 2009)

mikek75 said:


> Oh dear, here we go again, Europeans trying to impose their system on the rest of civilisation.



Bah, Metric has reached the far corners of the world!


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## MRCL (Dec 29, 2009)

mikek75 said:


> Oh dear, here we go again, Europeans trying to impose their system on the rest of civilisation. Yes, I know the Swiss don't like to get involved in such matters!
> 
> Imperial measurements make just as much sense as metric, it just depends on what you were bought up with. Here in the UK we use both quite sucessfully. MPG, MPH and gallons are very simple to use. When I worked for BMW Motorrad it always confused the hell out of me thinking in litres per 100km.



Well, true, you are used to what you grew up with and learned. But uhm, Europeans are not the only ones using the metric system... In fact, only three countries left not using it, two of them being third world countries. Well anyway lets not get this out of hand.


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## Deleted member 3 (Dec 29, 2009)

mikek75 said:


> Oh dear, here we go again, Europeans trying to impose their system on the rest of civilisation.



Agreed, it's time to free America from the European oppression. We should retreat our forces from their lands and let them live according to their own ways.


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## 3870x2 (Dec 29, 2009)

hat said:


> So... copper has a thermal conductivity of 385W/mK. So... it conducts 385 thousanths of 1 degree Kelvin?



that would mean that the thermal conductivity of copper is damned near absolute zero.

The reason we dont switch is it is very difficult.  Lord knows we want to, and we are all trying to (in school systems, etc...), in fact, physics, chemistry, any sort of mathematics, are very, very difficult to do without the metric system.

Try doing an advanced physics problem, without the metric system.  Possible? yes, just before you wash your mouth out with buckshot...


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## MilkyWay (Dec 29, 2009)

I know a lot of if not most Americans use the Metric system online, for example we talk about degrees Celsius for temperatures on the other hand graphics cards sizes are talked about in inches so i dont really have a point there lol.

You think America is weird we have pints of beer, measure body mass in stone and still measure peoples height in foot but everything else is in Metric. 

History 101- Britain even though it was a constitutional monarchy gave its citizens more (not all America had some sooner) freedoms and rights sooner than America. Example; Parliament passed the Slavery Abolition Act in 1833. This act gave all slaves in the British Empire their freedom. The British government paid compensation to the slave owners, even before that in 1807 Slave Trade was Illegal. My point one of those weird things i saw on tv that shows that shows the world is a strange place.
A kingdom you freed yourself from had more rights than your new ideology for a nation that is what i found interesting, its all true btw the BBC program 'history of scotland'.
I think the only thing they had going was religious freedom and even then they had a strong distaste to Catholics.

mK is something to do with kelvin but googling it i could'nt find a straight answer and its been a few years since i did anything physics related even tho i was pretty good at it, i have a brain like a sieve (terrible memory).

Why exactly did you want to know?


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## mikek75 (Dec 29, 2009)

DanTheBanjoman said:


> Agreed, it's time to free America from the European oppression. We should retreat our forces from their lands and let them live according to their own ways.



Oi, don't call me American, I'm English. And since we haven't been given the referrendum which we were promised on the ratification of the EU treaty I'm quite within my rights to consider myself a UK citizen, not European. The UK uses both systems, and for broad measurements such as travel distances and fuel consumption the imperial system works fine.



Frick said:


> Bah, Metric has reached the far corners of the world!



So did the Nazis, nothing to shout about.


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## FordGT90Concept (Dec 29, 2009)

MilkyWay said:


> ...
> A kingdom you freed yourself from had more rights than your new ideology for a nation that is what i found interesting, its all true btw the BBC program 'history of scotland'.
> I think the only thing they had going was religious freedom and even then they had a strong distaste to Catholics.


History 102 - Slaves were responsible for a large portion of the USA's GDP at the time (cotton farming in the South).  The threat of abolition of slavery is the #1 reason for the American Civil War.  There are very few parrallels in circumstances between the USA and the UK so their conclusions followed independant timelines.

The Constitution did not make any mention of slavery until the 13th amendment because it was common practice until many decades later.  George Washington himself had slaves.

I will say no more than that as it is off topic.


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## phanbuey (Dec 29, 2009)

I think most americans (with the exception of Ford) agree that the customary system is just plain f*&k retarded.

Just because you are used to something, doesnt mean that it 'has its place'.  Because it doesn't.  The customary system is like a bad habit that we just don't care enough to kick.

The metric system doesnt have to use decimals either.  One meter and 5 centimeters... look i just did what the 'customary' system does so well.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 29, 2009)

MilkyWay said:


> I know a lot of if not most Americans use the Metric system online, for example we talk about degrees Celsius for temperatures on the other hand graphics cards sizes are talked about in inches so i dont really have a point there lol.
> 
> You think America is weird we have pints of beer, measure body mass in stone and still measure peoples height in foot but everything else is in Metric.
> 
> ...



Ever heard of "indentured servants"?  You better open a history book and turn off the TV. The British have a long history of revising the past to suit there ideals.

And before anyone from the UK beat me down with a spotted dick please know all cultures do that. Including mine


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## Frick (Dec 29, 2009)

mikek75 said:


> So did the Nazis, nothing to shout about.



And so did the British Empire.


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## Solaris17 (Dec 29, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> I think most americans (with the exception of Ford) agree that the customary system is just plain f*&k retarded.
> 
> Just because you are used to something, doesnt mean that it 'has its place'.  Because it doesn't.  The customary system is like a bad habit that we just don't care enough to kick.
> 
> The metric system doesnt have to use decimals either.  One meter and 5 centimeters... look i just did what the 'customary' system does so well.



i disagree. im american and im perfectly fine with it. does it have to do with growing up with it? somewhat. but what i think the issue is everyone who uses metrics doesnt use what americans use....everything in their country is based off of metrics. so when they see a 9/16th socket you get all pissy. were in america we have alot of both. more so then you would think. i can come home from shopping and tell someone that its about 45F outside. then hop on my laptop and do all my temp in C. This holds true for alot of people and alot of things in america. and on the contrary i dont think many americans care. I think its the europeans and other metric countrys that make the fuss because you dont need to do any converting. that being said if you live in italy and dont deal with the american standard of measurment wtf do you care about a 9/16th socket?


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## Frick (Dec 29, 2009)

Solaris17 said:


> that being said if you live in italy and dont deal with the american standard of measurment wtf do you care about a 9/16th socket?



Because they probably have those too.


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## Deleted member 3 (Dec 29, 2009)

mikek75 said:


> So did the Nazis, nothing to shout about.



Since most Nazis spoke German there was a lot of shouting though


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## mikek75 (Dec 29, 2009)

Frick said:


> And so did the British Empire.



In a way thats true, but the methods were very different, as evidenced by the fact that the Commonwealth still exists and its members are quite happy with that. Yes the British Empire shed blood, but mass extermination such as the 6 million Jews was of a different order.


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## mikek75 (Dec 29, 2009)

DanTheBanjoman said:


> Since most Nazis spoke German there was a lot of shouting though


LOL, you've surpassed yourself there Dan, that was quite funny!


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## phanbuey (Dec 29, 2009)

Solaris17 said:


> i disagree. im american and im perfectly fine with it. does it have to do with growing up with it? somewhat. but what i think the issue is everyone who uses metrics doesnt use what americans use....everything in their country is based off of metrics. so when they see a 9/16th socket you get all pissy. were in america we have alot of both. more so then you would think. i can come home from shopping and tell someone that its about 45F outside. then hop on my laptop and do all my temp in C. This holds true for alot of people and alot of things in america. and on the contrary i dont think many americans care. I think its the europeans and other metric countrys that make the fuss because you dont need to do any converting. that being said if you live in italy and dont deal with the american standard of measurment wtf do you care about a 9/16th socket?



well im american too, almost all of my friends are american, and if you asked any person on the street "if there was one measurment standard in the world, only one, should it be metric or English?"  I think almost everyone, even in the states, would say metric.

which leads to the question, why? why do we need two measuring systems?  we dont. we are just stuck using the english because most people, including me, are resistant to change.

We would rather stick with an inconvenient measuring system, where most of us couldn't tell you on the spot how much of a mile 40yards is.  so things like:

"Wow, <insert football player name here> can do the 40 in 5 seconds..." how many mph is that? durrr....

one day, we will finally get fed up with the inconvenience of living with two measuring standards, not to mention the complete lack of logic behind the English standard, pull our heads out of our collective a$$, and join the rest of the world.  Thats just IMO... I really don't care that much either, but it is a pain in the butt to have to convert all the time. 

And i think we should be honest, if its stupid, then lets call it what it is - and having two systems when one, better one, is enough is kind of stupid - no reason to defend it.


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## Solaris17 (Dec 29, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> well im american too, almost all of my friends are american, and if you asked any person on the street "if there was one measurment standard in the world, only one, should it be metric or English?"  I think almost everyone, even in the states, would say metric.
> 
> which leads to the question, why? why do we need two measuring systems?  we dont. we are just stuck using the english because most people, including me, are resistant to change.
> 
> ...



i dont think so. while i agree its odd to have diffirent measring sysems i seriously doubt everyone or even most people would try and change it. if i remember correctly their was something about school trying to switch 100% to it or something a few years back and everyone flipped out. besides i think the real life scenerios are relatively stretched for a few out of the majority in the US conversions more complex than i hve a 20oz bottle of moutain dew now i need to buy a gallon of milk are true. However while most of the general public does conversions on a daily basis they arent hard. they are routine things. like in cooking were they dont even need to do math they simply remember the number. which brings me back to only a few actually care and get frustrated. these are usually the super working class or white collers. people who are machanics or make bluprints and stuff. then you have your executives tring to figure out if they should use feet or meters to measure the amount of wire in their new airline design. really in daily life conversions are a none issue except for those who actually need to exercise mathmatics to get the number they want.


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## Frick (Dec 29, 2009)

Wasnt there a space shuttle failure somewhere because they mixed metrics and english?


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## MRCL (Dec 29, 2009)

A yard is roughly one meter, right? I think those english measurements have their right of existance in sports. Yards in Football are like wheels on a car, without it it makes no sense. In skateboarding, one does not say X can ollie 20cm, but rather X can ollie three decks. 

By the way, as I work in Air traffic management; aeronautical measurements are based on nautical measurements, i.e. nautical miles and also feet. Its more convenient to speak of Flight Level 90 as in 9000 feet than rendering it metric (which only the Russians do). Planning the airways and the traffic system is much more easier with those feet based flight levels.


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## Solaris17 (Dec 29, 2009)

Frick said:


> Wasnt there a space shuttle failure somewhere because they mixed metrics and english?



not that i know of.


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## pantherx12 (Dec 29, 2009)

We use both in the UK


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## phanbuey (Dec 29, 2009)

MRCL said:


> A yard is roughly one meter, right? I think those english measurements have their right of existance in sports. In skateboarding, one does not say X can ollie 20cm, but rather X can ollie three decks.



Yes... so in my life, i will now measure time using my own system... instead of minutes, we will now use 'breaks' which is the amount of time it takes me to go to the bathroom during a commercial break. Also, we will have shakes, and if you're a guy... well you know roughly how long that is... I will now take 2 breaks and 1.5 shakes to admire my new system.


I am all for one standard.  In sports, and in everything.  So if you're a flight controller, tell those dirty ruskis to use feet - because that is the standard... if you're measuring an ollie, get a job.


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## GSG-9 (Dec 29, 2009)

Solaris17 said:


> not that i know of.



It was a Mars Rover not a Shuttle but yes.


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## MRCL (Dec 29, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> if you're measuring an ollie, get a job.



I have a job AND I do measure ollies in decks!!! I also used to measure walking distances in cigarettes i.e. how many cigarettes one can smoke during distance x. Worked well when I worked at the hotel, the street from the hotel down to the village was exactly one cigarette. And when guests asked how long it takes to go down to the village, I used to ask them if they are smokers, and if they said yes I explained my brilliant measuring system and they ALWAYS understood it.


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## Solaris17 (Dec 29, 2009)

MRCL said:


> I have a job AND I do measure ollies in decks!!! I also used to measure walking distances in cigarettes i.e. how many cigarettes one can smoke during distance x. Worked well when I worked at the hotel, the street from the hotel down to the village was exactly one cigarette. And when guests asked how long it takes to go down to the village, I used to ask them if they are smokers, and if they said yes I explained my brilliant measuring system and they ALWAYS understood it.



um that system is awesome and i use it. but i am also a smoker. doesnt matter though. from my house to the gas station is 2 ciggz.


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## MRCL (Dec 29, 2009)

Also, the time for the bus/train to arrive is exactly ten seconds after you lit the cigarette after you have waited thirteen days. This is a fact that applies worldwide.


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## DonInKansas (Dec 29, 2009)

MomentoMoir said:


> sadly i wish are school would have taught us it



Looks like they skimped on the english classes too.  

We learned both in school, but I didn't start regularly using metric until getting into computers.


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## yogurt_21 (Dec 29, 2009)

DanTheBanjoman said:


> So you consider 100.000 cm (or 10KM) confusing because it's long? Google says 10KM = 6.21371192 Miles. care to tell me how many inches, feet, penises, foreheads, legs and tales that is? Give me any decimal number and I can tell you how many metric units of any kind it is in a second, no thinking or calculating required, I can just read it.



You're failure to convert is irrelevent, you grew up on the metric system. Had you grown up using the standard system as My father did, you'd have no issue. He can take his tape measure and take 3- 5 meaturements on a roof and then convert that to the roofing square and esitmate materials based off of that without any calculators or inaccuracy. whether the person has been taught one system or another doesn't matter. How well they know, understand, and interpret it does. 

Europe loves to throw metrics in our faces and claim we have no idea how to use our own system because the system is faulty. I think europe fails to understand the problem. If we had been given metrics first most of america still wouldn't be able to use it. The problem is laziness, not that the system doesn't use 10's. That's only a valid argument if you were only taught multiplications by 10's. I dunno about you but I was taught it by 1's, 2's, 3's, 4's, 5's, 6's, 7's, 8's, 9's, 10's, 11's, 12's,...

whether I'm told to cut a board to 97 and 3/4" or 8' 1 and 3/4" doesn't matter because I just need to match what I'm told to my tape measure and cut accurately.


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## mikek75 (Dec 29, 2009)

And don't forget it was the British that gave you the "standard", or more accurately the Imperial system, LOL. And heres me thinking the Americans hated all things "Limey"....


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## FordGT90Concept (Dec 29, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> I am all for one standard.  In sports, and in everything.  So if you're a flight controller, tell those dirty ruskis to use feet - because that is the standard... if you're measuring an ollie, get a job.


One standard means converting everything and ending up with ugly numbers almost every single place a conversion is performed.  For instance, the football field would no longer be 100 yards, it would be 91.44 meters.  One cup would be 236.588237 ml.  One mile would be 1.609344 kilometers.  One liter would be 0.264172052 US gallons.  One foot would be 0.3048 meters.  The list goes on and on.  Ya know what?  Why not call one gallon one gallon?  Why not call one meter one meter?  Why pretend one standard of measuring works the best for everything?  Why not use the tool best suited for the job?

As to Fahrenheit vs Celsius, Fahrenheit has almost half the scale of Celsius.  Sure, that doesn't sound important on the surface but when someone tells the temperature in Celsius, it almost always has at least one decimal point.  When someone tells the temperature in Fahrenheit, it rarely has a decimal.  Which is truly the better system for telling the temperature on a day to day basis?  Probably Fahrenheit. If you are doing some research that requires accurate temperature readings, you'd probably use Celsius.  Again, which is the better tool for the job? 




Frick said:


> Wasnt there a space shuttle failure somewhere because they mixed metrics and english?


If there was a failure due to that, it was a failure in communication or following protocol.  It has nothing to do with the standards themselves.


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## phanbuey (Dec 29, 2009)

FordGT90Concept said:


> One standard means converting everything and ending up with ugly numbers almost every single place a conversion is performed.  For instance, the football field would no longer be 100 yards, it would be 91.44 meters.  One cup would be 236.588237 ml.  One mile would be 1.609344 kilometers.  One liter would be 0.264172052 US gallons.  One foot would be 0.3048 meters.  The list goes on and on.  Ya know what?  Why not call one gallon one gallon?  Why not call one meter one meter?  *Why pretend one standard of measuring works the best for everything?  Why not use the tool best suited for the job?*
> 
> If there was a failure due to that, it was a failure in communication or following protocol.  It has nothing to do with the standards themselves.



Because it does!!! It works!  Much better too.  The 'jobs' that you are referring to have been adapted to the tools. They have been shoehorned to the system, its 1 cup and not 1.223112cups because of the existence of the measurement 'cup'.. such jobs can be adapted to new tools... changing the tools means changing the current Jobs, which is what people don't want to do.  Keep yards for football and decks for skating - these are entertainment events... but why change the other jobs?

After all, you are correct, the calculation error was due to a communication failure. So why change the system? Because quality is measured as defects per million opportunities (DPMO) every time a conversion is performed, it represents an opportunity where a defect can occur needlessly.  Eliminate the opportunities (i.e. use a single system, which will eliminate such conversions altogether) - and thus increase quality FOR FREE.  

All we have to do is stop teaching the English system and stop using it in a professional capacity.

this is the whole point of standards and standardization - because it increases quality and decreases complexity. IMO... it will never happen, but it would be nice if it did.


----------



## Inioch (Dec 29, 2009)

FordGT90Concept said:


> One standard means converting everything and ending up with ugly numbers almost every single place a conversion is performed.  For instance, the football field would no longer be 100 yards, it would be 91.44 meters.  One cup would be 236.588237 ml.  One mile would be 1.609344 kilometers.  One liter would be 0.264172052 US gallons.  One foot would be 0.3048 meters.  The list goes on and on.  Ya know what?  Why not call one gallon one gallon?  Why not call one meter one meter?  Why pretend one standard of measuring works the best for everything?  Why not use the tool best suited for the job?



Now this really feels like going Mailman on a sleeping bear, but...

You seem to see the problem as decimals and as such think that those measurements are clumsy. Football fields, keep 'em, we have real football here, but on other matters. Why use cups, when you can use decilitres? Why use miles when you can have kilometers? Why use gallons, when you can have litres? Why use foots, when you can have meters?

The point is having a system that scales easily (ml-dl-l, cm-m-km) and is more easily compared (like l/km or km/h).

Ease of use is the key. Easy to read, easy to convert between lengths/volumes/speeds.


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## FordGT90Concept (Dec 29, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> After all, you are correct, the calculation error was due to a communication failure. So why change the system? Because quality is measured as defects per million opportunities (DPMO) every time a conversion is performed, it represents an opportunity where a defect can occur needlessly.  Eliminate the opportunities (i.e. use a single system, which will eliminate such conversions altogether) - and thus increase quality FOR FREE.


The only way to eliminate the errors is to eliminate the humans.  Humans will make mistakes, no matter the system used to convey it.


----------



## phanbuey (Dec 29, 2009)

FordGT90Concept said:


> The only way to eliminate the errors is to eliminate the humans.  Humans will make mistakes, no matter the system used to convey it.



 This is true.  But the less opportunities you give humans to make mistakes, the less mistakes they will make.


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## FordGT90Concept (Dec 29, 2009)

Inioch said:


> Why use cups, when you can use decilitres? Why use miles when you can have kilometers? Why use gallons, when you can have litres? Why use foots, when you can have meters?


Every recipe I've seen uses cups, pints, pinches, quarts, "eggs", and other non-scientific means to measure a quantity.  We're not making nuclear bombs in the kitchen, we're just making some tasty grub.  Even if you don't have precise measuring equipment, a cup is literally a cup and a pint is literally a pint--things every kitchen has.

Every single road in the entire USA has them fancy green signs.  Every single one is given as miles.  We can't forget the white signs either (speed limits), those are always given in miles per hour.  We also can't forget those hundreds of millions of cars that have MPH speedometers.  You know how much that would cost to change all of that?  Billions of dollars.  I have a better idea: Let's take that billions of dollars wasted on making Europeans happy and invest it in Africa so that it doesn't become the next Middle East.  Or maybe we should spend it fixing all our aging, inadequate roads.

Gallons?  Because 66 gallons equals a barrel.  Know why barrels are important?  They are the global standard for trading that ever-so-important commodity known as black gold: oil.

Feet (not foots)?  The entire housing industry relies on feet and inches for everything from stud placement to dimensions of those studs to the width of a door to the placement of windows.

There's a double-standard everywhere in the world.  There is no place on this planet that uses strictly one standard and there never will be for the very same reasons why there will never be just one spoken and written language on Earth.


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## Fourstaff (Dec 29, 2009)

I think which units we use is largely determined by what is convinient to us. I was brought up in a metric environment, so I prefer the metric system, plus, we dont need to remember all those conversions such as 12 inch=1 feet, I just need to remember simple decimal conversions like 100cm=1m. Others might find the imperial system much more usable because they are brought up that way. The only reason that we are still using the imperial system is because it take a lot of effort to change everything to metric, which answers FordGT's point. 

I believe metric is the way forward, imperial is too outdated. Metric is much easier to understand by the scientific world (except the Americans who still insist on using the imperial systems, but more and more Americans are being converted over). That said, I still think there are alot of deficiencies of the metric system, like light travels 299792458m/s, and it will take at least a few centuries for everyone to use the metric system and by then there will be a new system which is (scientifically) better.


----------



## Inioch (Dec 29, 2009)

Ok, I think this argument is getting a bit personal but I'll take this last try.



FordGT90Concept said:


> Every recipe I've seen uses cups, pints, pinches, quarts, "eggs", and other non-scientific means to measure a quantity.



And almost every receipe I have has ml, dl and such.



FordGT90Concept said:


> Every single road in the entire USA has them fancy green signs.  Every single one is given as miles.  We can't forget the white signs either (speed limits), those are always given in miles per hour.  We also can't forget those hundreds of millions of cars that have MPH speedometers.  You know how much that would cost to change all of that?  Billions of dollars. * I have a better idea: Let's take that billions of dollars wasted on making Europeans happy and invest it in Africa so that it doesn't become the next Middle East.*  Or maybe we should spend it fixing all our aging, inadequate roads.



The bold part is probably the smartest thing said in this thread at all. Put the money there, or pay your debts to the UN.
All speed limits and such are in km/h in europe, so no difference there either, except that we can drive across the border and still have the speed limit signs match our speedometers 



FordGT90Concept said:


> Gallons?  Because 66 gallons equals a barrel.  Know why barrels are important?  They are the global standard for trading that ever-so-important commodity known as black gold: oil.



"The standard oil barrel of 42 US gallons is used in the United States as a measure of crude oil and other petroleum products. Elsewhere, oil is commonly measured in cubic metres (m3) or in tonnes (t), with tonnes more often being used by European oil companies. International companies listed on American stock exchanges tend to convert their oil production volumes to barrels for global reporting purposes, and those listed on European exchanges tend to convert their production to tonnes." -Wikipedia 

It's sensible in a way that the US standard is ruling, because you guys use the most oil in the world, but that doesn't make it any better or more convenient. It's just the way it has been done and could quite easily be changed.



FordGT90Concept said:


> Feet (not foots)?  The entire housing industry relies on feet and inches for everything from stud placement to dimensions of those studs to the width of a door to the placement of windows.



Well sorry for my slight spelling error, not a native here. The entire housing industry everywhere else relies on the SI system to know where to put those studs and windows. That's how I know what size fans go where. That's how I know where to drill holes in my bookcases. It's all the same.



FordGT90Concept said:


> There's a double-standard everywhere in the world.  There is no place on this planet that uses strictly one standard and there never will be for the very same reasons why there will never be just one spoken and written language on Earth.



Comparing spoken languages to measurements is a bit different, since languages also carry with them a cultural background and differences in forming thoughts, like we have over a dozen different words for different kinds of snow.

But enough of this, we are getting quite far offtopic


----------



## Nick89 (Dec 29, 2009)

btarunr said:


> mK/W is "Kelvin-metres per Watt"
> 
> These great nations did not find the metric system practical:
> 
> ...



so what are you trying to say BTA?


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## Solaris17 (Dec 29, 2009)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Every recipe I've seen uses cups, pints, pinches, quarts, "eggs", and other non-scientific means to measure a quantity.



If you look at a recipe and see "eggs" as a measurment you are not a very good baker


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## phanbuey (Dec 29, 2009)

Inioch said:


> like we have over a dozen different words for different kinds of snow.



No way.. Do you have a word for yellow snow?


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## WhiteLotus (Dec 29, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> And before anyone from the UK beat me down with a spotted dick please know all cultures do that. Including mine



i lol'ed

lol'ed out loud.



Nick89 said:


> so what are you trying to say BTA?



that the world has realised that the metric system is better.


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## Papahyooie (Dec 29, 2009)

Once again I find myself agreeing with Ford. Different tools for different jobs. If you need to make precise measurements, sure use the metric system. However if you need to to approximate something quickly, the emperial system is better because it is (mostly) based on real things. A "foot" is based on the length of a common human foot. My foot is about 12 and half inches long. So if I need to appoximate a foot, bam there i have it. A barrel, well everyone who's seen a barrel of oil knows how much a barrel is. No need to convert it to anything because thats not what it was made for. It was based mostly on the objects the units were named for, as a way of measuring something quickly and easily, and more importantly something universal (as in a foot). The only reason a foot is exactly twelve inches is because someone (whichever king it was) saw a need to standardize it because everyones foot is different: in effect an attempt to "metric-ize" it if you get what i mean. As for construction where the old system is used, but exact measurements are still needed, well all i can say is, good luck getting them to change it. It works for them, so why change? Especially considering the fact that most tape measures have feet, inches, AND centimeters on them, and they can be used together. Confusing? Not to someone who uses it all day every day. And when youre using a tape measure (a standardized tool just like a cup or a foot) then it doesnt matter. If I say measure a board 10 feet, 6 inches and 1 centimeter, Then you whip out your tape measure and do it. No problem. (granted it normally is feet, inches, and inch fractions, but laymen use the centimeter marks as well)


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 29, 2009)

Inioch said:


> Now this really feels like going *Mailman* on a sleeping bear, but...


 What the hell does that mean?

Listen I wish the US used the metric system. I do. Once you learn it they system is very easy. HOWEVER its not "better" than standard. You just have a lack of understanding of standard as most Americans are ignorant of metric. Nether systems are "better" you know why? THEY ARE BASED IN MATH. So unless European math is somehow more accurate than American math no system is better.

Will America ever change over to metric? I should hope so but I doubt it will in my lifetime. Its not because we are stupid or stubborn its just the price it would take us would be IMMENSE! Think about if the tables were reviesd. What if your country was established on "standard" and thats all you knew and were taught from childhood. Then one day someone says "Hey you need to be like everyone else. Learn a new system and forget everything you have learned your whole life." Its not as easy as you may think. 

Oh and don't get me started on the "UN" and what ANYONE owes it.


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## phanbuey (Dec 29, 2009)

Papahyooie said:


> Once again I find myself agreeing with Ford. Different tools for different jobs. If you need to make precise measurements, sure use the metric system. However if you need to to approximate something quickly, the emperial system is better because it is (mostly) based on real things. A "foot" is based on the length of a common human foot. My foot is about 12 and half inches long. So if I need to appoximate a foot, bam there i have it. A barrel, well everyone who's seen a barrel of oil knows how much a barrel is. No need to convert it to anything because thats not what it was made for. It was based mostly on the objects the units were named for, as a way of measuring something quickly and easily, and more importantly something universal (as in a foot). The only reason a foot is exactly twelve inches is because someone (whichever king it was) saw a need to standardize it because everyones foot is different: in effect an attempt to "metric-ize" it if you get what i mean. As for construction where the old system is used, but exact measurements are still needed, well all i can say is, good luck getting them to change it. It works for them, so why change? Especially considering the fact that most tape measures have feet, inches, AND centimeters on them, and they can be used together. Confusing? Not to someone who uses it all day every day. And when youre using a tape measure (a standardized tool just like a cup or a foot) then it doesnt matter. If I say measure a board 10 feet, 6 inches and 1 centimeter, Then you whip out your tape measure and do it. No problem. (granted it normally is feet, inches, and inch fractions, but laymen use the centimeter marks as well)



Really, you know how much a barrel is because you've seen it? So if someone said i need 5,000,000 cups of oil (because my machine measures it in cups)... you could easily give me the barrel quantity without having to look it up right?

See the problem is that it is not, in fact, "different tools for different jobs"... what it is, is a two sets of not very compatible tools for the SAME job.  The rest of the world uses one set, while we use both.  Doesn't make alot of sense does it?  

And the cost of switching is immense if we do it all at once... like if tomorrow we changed all the signs.  No need to do it like that... Most cars already have kmh and mph on them, and like you said - all tape measures have both... all we have to do, for now, is promote metric (post all new signs in both, but make metric a bit bigger), and not teach the imperial, give it 30 years, and its a painless conversion.

EDIT: @mailman - the imperial system is not based in MATH the even had to standradize it bc it was COMPLETELY random... there is nothing 'Math' about the size of a dude's foot, or how many of his thumbtips (inches) make up that size.  Its almost completely arbitrary... i mean really... 5280 feet in a mile 503 yards in a mile and 3 feet in every yard - thats pretty random and not very intuative. So yeah... one system is definitely 'better'.


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## Solaris17 (Dec 29, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> What the hell does that mean?
> 
> Listen I wish the US used the metric system. I do. Once you learn it they system is very easy. HOWEVER its not "better" than standard. You just have a lack of understanding of standard as most Americans are ignorant of metric. Nether systems are "better" you know why? THEY ARE BASED IN MATH. So unless European math is somehow more accurate than American math no system is better.
> 
> ...



well played


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## Papahyooie (Dec 29, 2009)

@phanbuey: 

That was my whole point. Why in hades would you tell me you needed 5 million cups of oil? You wouldnt, if you wanted that much oil you'd ask for it in barrels. If you wanted 3 cups of oil, you'd ask for it in cups. Thats my point. There is no need for conversion because we already have units in place. If you called an oil carrier and said you wanted 5 million cups of oil, they'd hang up on you.

As for feet and "thumbtips" (inches) once again, thats the point. They werent meant to be based in MATH. They were meant to be able to stick your thumb up to something and say "thats this many inches" because its this many thumbs. Miles were never meant to be converted to inches, feet, or yards. Feet were made so that you could quickly measure out how many literal feet something was, yards were meant to be able to measure out how many strides something was. They're not based on a standard number (like 10) because they werent meant to be. One can tell exactly how many centemeters are in x amount of meters. But can you tell me how many centimeters it is from tree A to tree B in the woods? No, you'd walk it off in yards, because thats the average adult male pace.
Different tools for different jobs.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 29, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> EDIT: @mailman - the imperial system is not based in MATH... there is nothing 'Math' about the size of a dude's foot, or how many of his thumbtips (inches) make up that size.  Its almost completely arbitrary... i mean really... 5280 feet in a mile 503 yards in a mile and 3 feet in every yard - thats pretty random and not very intuative. So yeah... one system is definitely 'better'.


 I'm guessing you didn't do to good in school.


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## phanbuey (Dec 29, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I'm guessing you didn't do to good in school.



 yeah...  That's why I have a grad degree and a 710 on my GMATs...

I'm sorry, but read up on your history, Math and the Imperial System have nothing to do with each other .


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 29, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> yeah...  That's why I have a grad degree and a 710 on my GMATs...
> 
> I'm sorry, but read up on your history, Math and the Imperial System have nothing to do with each other .



But they do now don't they? Also if you went to Dade county schools I ain't impressed.


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## phanbuey (Dec 29, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> But they do now don't they?



No... they don't... 

that is why there are 50*3* yards in a mile... because they had nothing to do with each other initially and as far as the 'math' goes, there is no systematic logic behind the measuring system.

If your version of math is picking random numbers, then yes.  Very math based. 17 < look i did some math... timmMayy.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 29, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> No... they don't...
> 
> that is why there are 50*3* yards in a mile... because they had nothing to do with each other initially.
> 
> If your version of math is picking random numbers, then yes.  Very math based. 17 < look i did some math... timmMayy.



Wow the standard system is so crappy and inaccurate we built a super power using it . Have you ever built anything in your life?


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## Solaris17 (Dec 29, 2009)

easy boys. no use fighting over a ruler.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 29, 2009)

Solaris17 said:


> easy boys. no use fighting over a ruler.



I just think its funny that someone with a "grad degree" thinks Corvettes are built with thumb tips.


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## phanbuey (Dec 29, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Wow the standard system is so crappy and inaccurate we built a super power using it . Have you ever built anything in your life?



Yes ... because those two things have so much to do with one another ... Directly related measurement systems and politics.

Have YOU ever built anything in your life  ? Seriously? Don't attack me because you have nothing to say against the topic at hand that is even remotely logical.  Or do... its kinda funny.

And don't be jealous either ...42 < still doing MailMath DurDurDur..


----------



## Papahyooie (Dec 29, 2009)

oh my god here we go...

thread closed in three... two... one...


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 29, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> Yes ... because those two things have so much to do with one another ... Directly related measurement systems and politics.
> 
> Have YOU ever built anything in your life  ? Seriously? Don't attack me because you have nothing to say against the topic at hand that is even remotely logical.  Or do... its kinda funny.



They have everything to do with each other. Do you think any nation could survive with an inaccurate measurement system that doesn't have its roots in a mathematical base? Could we perfected mass production or had an industrial revolution using thumb tips? 

Oh and yeah I've worked construction before. Let me introduce you to a new invention. Its called a "tape measure". It can tell you (gasp) measurements!


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## phanbuey (Dec 29, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> They have everything to do with each other. Do you think any nation could survive with an inaccurate measurement system that doesn't have its roots in a mathematical base? Could we perfected mass production or had an industrial revolution using thumb tips?
> 
> Oh and yeah I've worked construction before.



Good for you... I never said the system was inaccurate, but that it was NOT based in math... good thing some king MADE it accurate (standard) as it evolved because he realized that a nation could not survive, trade, or do anything without at least a standardized system.  But it is still not based in math.

I'm glad that you work in construction, and I'm glad you can measure things.  But that doesn't change the fact that having two systems makes no sense, and that one is a bit more bogus than the other.  

This is especially true when we faceplanted a billion dollar rover into the Martian surface because of a conversion mistake.  Its an archaic system - it exists only because we have not done away with it... we are just willing to deal with it.  That doesn't make it a good idea.


----------



## Solaris17 (Dec 29, 2009)




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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 29, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> Good for you... I never said the system was inaccurate, but that it was NOT based in math... good thing some king MADE it accurate (standard) as it evolved because he realized that a nation could not survive, trade, or do anything without at least a standardized system.  But it is still not based in math.
> 
> I'm glad that you work in construction, and I'm glad you can measure things.  But that doesn't change the fact that having two systems makes no sense, and that one is a bit more bogus than the other.



Yeah thats why they call it STANDARD. Because all the measurements are the SAME. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE BASED IN MATH. So what did we learn kids? No system is "better" because they are both just as accurate.



phanbuey said:


> This is especially true when we faceplanted a billion dollar rover into the Martian surface because of a conversion mistake.


 No thats because someone didn't know how measure correctly. Thats human error. Not system error.


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## phanbuey (Dec 29, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Yeah thats why they call it STANDARD. Because all the measurements are the SAME. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE BASED IN MATH. So what did we learn kids? No system is "better" because they are both just as accurate.



We are talking about two completely different things.

Accuracy isn't the issue - logic is... one system is universal and uses LESS math because it was BASED on math... and the other is not and uses a hell of alot of math, because it was NOT created with Math in mind... It was random, and some king just froze the randomness and made it constant. 78.

Is one 'better'?  Yes!  Is it more accurate? NO! Its just alot easier to use... makes more sense... and *gasp* the rest of the world uses it! That makes it better.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 29, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> We are talking about two completely different things.
> 
> Accuracy isn't the issue - logic is... one system is universal and uses LESS math because it was BASED on math... and the other is not and uses a hell of alot of math, because it was NOT created with Math in mind... It was random, and some king just froze the randomness and made it constant. 78.
> 
> Is one 'better'?  Yes!  Is it more accurate? NO! Its just alot easier to use... makes more sense... and *gasp* the rest of the world uses it! That makes it better.



Do they both work? Yes. Are they both accurate. Yes. Is one better than the other. Nope. Only in your eyes is it better because nothing makes it better but popularity. You know why? Because they do the EXACT same thing. Just differently.


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## phanbuey (Dec 29, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> No thats because someone didn't know how measure correctly. Thats human error. Not system error.



NO... part of the program of the lander was in meters and another in feet.

It was a mathematical conversion error, which was a DIRECT result of having two systems.  Again, DPMO... that mistake shouldn't have happened.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 30, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> NO... part of the program of the lander was in meters and another in feet.
> 
> It was a mathematical conversion error, which was a DIRECT result of having two systems.  Again, DPMO... that mistake shouldn't have happened.



It was a "mathematical conversion error" made by a human. Ever heard the term "garbage in, garbage out."?


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## Triprift (Dec 30, 2009)

Err fellas youve made your point how about i make yous both a nice cup of tea each.

As for here in Oz we do use both more Metric ofcourse the main imperial i see is screen sizes
in inches wich is fine for me as i actually find cm with it confusing.


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## Papahyooie (Dec 30, 2009)

Well since everyone ignored me and everything in the thread has turned to crap anyway... i'll tell you why the rover crashed. It wasnt because of metrics or standards or anything. It was because the guy on the hollywood set behind it didnt know how to use the remote control! 






Disclaimer: i dont really believe that


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## Zubasa (Dec 30, 2009)

Triprift said:


> Err fellas youve made your point how about i make yous both a nice cup of tea each.
> 
> As for here in Oz we do use both more Metric ofcourse the main imperial i see is screen sizes
> in inches wich is fine for me as i actually find cm with it confusing.


We use both system in HK also.

Actually the whole measuring screens by the diagonal thing doesn't make much sense 
It only makes sense if every screen on this planet is the same aspect ratio.
The problem is, even before all this wide screen mess there is 4:3 and 5:4 and such... :shadedshu


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## phanbuey (Dec 30, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> It was a "mathematical conversion error" made by a human. Ever heard the term "garbage in, garbage out."?



Oh jesus... im done beating this very very dead horse. Its pretty obvious that you don't want to admit that

1) having two systems that do the same thing (and are not compatible) is silly.

and 2) that mistakes result in the fact that HUMANS have to convert between the two, and mess it up, because its not an easy conversion.

3) one system is better because it is newer, more logical, much easier to use (and more popular).


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## Inioch (Dec 30, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> What the hell does that mean?
> 
> Oh and don't get me started on the "UN" and what ANYONE owes it.



Relax, I only meant that participating in this conversation, in which everyones opinions are so deep rooted, is the same as hitting a sleeping bear in the head with a stick, eg. probably not wise. 

Well save UN for another argument for another day


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## Triprift (Dec 30, 2009)

Now ive seen 21:9 wich is like unusal to say the least. Sure you can convert vids for it but finding stuff in that ar is tricky so youll most likely wach stuff regular old 16:9 or worse 4:3 with the prison bars down the side.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 30, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> Oh jesus... im done beating this very very dead horse. Its pretty obvious that you don't want to admit that
> 
> 1) having two systems that do the same thing (and are not compatible) is silly.
> 
> ...



Be sure to take a shower.


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## Fourstaff (Dec 30, 2009)

Zubasa said:


> Actually the whole measuring screens by the diagonal thing doesn't make much sense
> It only makes sense if every screen on this planet is the same aspect ratio.
> The problem is, even before all this wide screen mess there is 4:3 and 5:4 and such... :shadedshu



I have a 100 inch monitor  (It measures 100"X1" ) 

I see your point long time ago, that is why everyone keeps making their screen wider, to skimp on screen space and increase their paper size and this is not helped by all the "Cinema Resolution" hype.


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## Triprift (Dec 30, 2009)

I dont understand why you two are so fired up over this like ive said we use to a degree both in this country and there are times when i think Impreial is easier to understand. Like MailMan said to try and change hundreds of years of using one system to another would be an apsolute nightmare. It would be like are government telling us are national language would be changed from English to French. The whole population would have to go willingly to learning French something that wouldnt go perfectly as many ppl dont like change and would resist and all the other stuff that would need to be done no thanks. Sure i dont understand alot of imperial but that doesnt mean its not any good if i used it on a day to day basis id get used to it without even thinking as ive done so with Metric.


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## phanbuey (Dec 30, 2009)

Triprift said:


> I dont understand why you two are so fired up over this like ive said we use to a degree both in this country and there are times when i think Impreial is easier to understand. Like MailMan said to try and change hundreds of years of using one system to another would be an apsolute nightmare. It would be like are government telling us are national language would be changed from English to French. The whole population would have to go willingly to learning French something that wouldnt go perfectly as many ppl dont like change and would resist and all the other stuff that would need to be done no thanks. Sure i dont understand alot of imperial but that doesnt mean its not any good if i used it on a day to day basis id get used to it without even thinking as ive done so with Metric.



It has nothing to do with that... it's just that Mailman is, in general, we a bit of a **** (as am I) and we like to argue.  

It went a bit like 

Mailman: "Both systems are equal"

Me:"no one is better"

Mailman: "You're an idiot"

Me: "No F#(*& you," 

....

Both of us make good points - IMO, I think we're fired up because its in the afternoon, we've had a few, and its good, genuine fun.  Sorry to spam the thread... I should probably delete the 'wax my back' comment.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 30, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> It has nothing to do with that... it's just that Mailman is, in general, we a bit of a **** (as am I) and we like to argue.
> 
> It went a bit like
> 
> ...


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## Triprift (Dec 30, 2009)

I was just thinking you guys could of come to a truce earlier thats all.

I disagree with mailMan on stuff from time to time but i choose to call a truce early and walk away as i hate arguing.


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## Fourstaff (Dec 30, 2009)

Mailman might be using this to up his infraction count


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## El Fiendo (Dec 30, 2009)

This thread makes my head hurt in numerous ways. I'll try to keep this short as I am off topic, but I will point out a couple of things.

The US doesn't change systems because its 'too hard'. 
  - Most of the world changed systems from whatever to metric and it wasn't too hard for them. Less QQ more pew pew.
  - The US's solution is that because its too hard for them, they'll just make it hard on everyone else by not adopting the system. Less work for you means now an entire planet (save 2 other countries) has to make concessions for you. Good show.

Growing up in Canada, which didn't convert until 1970, I've been taught both systems throughout school and by my parents who were raised with SI only. I can convert feet to inches, yards and miles in my head with ease. Especially so seeming how much I've studied with carpentry. Having said that, quantify the following for me: 

(Note, these are all SI to SI unit conversions. So far everyone's been hashing up SI to metric, so let's see how easy it is if we restrict conversions to one system only.)
1 Furlong = ___ inches
1 Acre = ___ inches
1 Fathom = ___ inches
1 Rod = ___ inches
1 Cable = ___ inches
1 Chain = ___ inches
1 Link = ___ inches
1 Nautical Mile = ___ inches
1 Leauge = ___ inches

Now convert:

1 Chain = ___ Nautical Miles
1 League = ___ Rods
1 Mile = ___ Survey Miles (fun one)
1 Mile = ___ Nautical Miles (also a fun one)
etc

Now tell me how much of the American public even knows about _all_ of those SI units and their use. With the metric system, any measurement given to me can be converted to a different measurement with ease and in my head as all you have to do is remember this table and how to add (or remove) 0s from a number. Now I know that table might seem daunting to learn, but much like 'furlong, league and rod', most of those prefixes are rarely used in day to day speech. However I can still change one of those uncommon metric measurements to a more common one with ease.

The point is that most any person can convert 224.875 kilometers is 224,875.00 meters in seconds, but few (if any) can convert 224.875 miles to 395,780.00 yards in their head (because come on, distances to places don't magically snap to the nearest mile). In every day speech you would round up, ok fine 225 kilometers and 225 miles. That still ends up being 225,000 meters and 396,000 yards respectively. Which do you think is faster to math out?


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## MohawkAngel (Dec 30, 2009)

If ya wanna know about "mK" ...ask to mister garisson


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## Triprift (Dec 30, 2009)

Good show MohawkAngel good show indeed.


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## Deleted member 67555 (Dec 30, 2009)

El Fiendo said:


> This thread makes my head hurt in numerous ways. I'll try to keep this short as I am off topic, but I will point out a couple of things.
> 
> The US doesn't change systems because its 'too hard'.
> - Most of the world changed systems from whatever to metric and it wasn't too hard for them. Less QQ more pew pew.
> ...


I use Both cause some things Just make more sense with one system over another BUT....
1 3/4" is 1.75" like 1 1/2 centimeters is 15 millimeters etc etc... an inch is still an inch you don't really have to worry about tens to make an accurate description and on the same note 15mm is better than 0.590551" But I'd rather have a 5/8" socket over 15mm and 16mm socket when they are all very close in size 5/8" simply makes more sense, I like SAE over Metric 

However a 175mm Hair Comb is better than a 6.9" hair comb cause it's a solid number


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## Solaris17 (Dec 30, 2009)

found it i win.


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## SummerDays (Dec 30, 2009)

You can't win like that.  

The original posters message clearly had a little m and a captial K.


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## Solaris17 (Dec 30, 2009)

SummerDays said:


> You can't win like that.
> 
> The original posters message clearly had a little m and a captial K.



yes he forgot to let go of shift. simple explination.


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## FordGT90Concept (Dec 30, 2009)

1 Furlong = 7920 inches
1 Acre = 522,720 in2 (linear to area conversion...)
1 Fathom = 72 inches
1 Rod = 198 inches
1 Cable = 7296 inches
1 Chain = 792 inches
1 Link = 7.92 inches
1 Nautical Mile = 72,960 inches
1 Leauge = 190,080 inches

Now convert:

1 Chain = 0.010855263157894736842105263157895 Nautical Miles
1 League = 960 Rods
1 Mile = 0.99999813690989630059543498034162 Survey Miles (fun one)
1 Mile = 0.86842105263157894736842105263158 Nautical Miles (also a fun one)
etc




El Fiendo said:


> Now tell me how much of the American public even knows about _all_ of those SI units and their use.


Most of those are only used when reading ancient books.  They do not have common use today.


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## mikek75 (Dec 30, 2009)

Both systems work! When I did the Sniper course many moons ago we were taught various techniques for judging distance, one of which was called "unit of measure". It worked when there was no dead ground between you and the target. This involved guesstimating how many football pitches would fit between you and it.

Thats the beauty of Imperial for rough judgements, it takes a measurement which we can all picture in our heads, meaning that without a tape measure its possible to make a good approximation of the length.

Metric, on the other hand, is excellent for precisely measured amounts such as 5 ml of medicine as opposed to a teaspoon. Who knows exactly what a teaspoon contains as there is no laid down standard size!


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## El Fiendo (Dec 30, 2009)

FordGT90Concept said:


> 1 Furlong = 7920 inches
> etc
> 
> -snip-
> ...



I like how you read past the point, which uses current day measurements, and chose to answer this.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 30, 2009)

Let this thread die already! Its just a geek flame war using units of measure for weapons. The only thing geekier is arguing Star Wars vs. Star Trek.


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## MRCL (Dec 30, 2009)

Well Star Wars used Parsecs...

1 parsec = SI units 
30.857×10^12 km 30.857×10^15 m 
Astronomical units 
206.26×10^3 AU 3.26156 ly 
US customary / Imperial units 
19.174×10^12 mi 101.24×10^15 ft 

And metric AND imperial are wicked numbers. We need a THIRD system as a standard. Then everybody can complain.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 30, 2009)

MRCL said:


> Well Star Wars used Parsecs...
> 
> 1 parsec = SI units
> 30.857×10^12 km 30.857×10^15 m
> ...



I agree. We can use TheMailMan system.

1 foot = 1 MailMan
1 inch = 1 MailMan
1 Kilo = 1 MailMan
ect.

Then everyone could hate TheMailMan not just TPU!


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## MRCL (Dec 30, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I agree. We can use TheMailMan system.
> 
> 1 foot = 1 MailMan
> 1 inch = 1 MailMan
> ...



So you're one MailMan tall, your lil MailMan is only one MailMan long, and you only weigh one MailMan? Man, eat something!


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## FordGT90Concept (Dec 30, 2009)

I like it.  The MailMan system would be great when anonymity is needed in measurements.  It would better than x's, y's, z's, and bleeps. 




El Fiendo said:


> I like how you read past the point, which uses current day measurements, and chose to answer this.


Feet, inches, miles, and nautical miles are "current day measurements."  Rod, cable, chain, etc. are not.  When was the last time you used a decameter or a picaliter? Those are examples of equivilents to rod/cable/chain in the customary system.


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## WhiteLotus (Dec 30, 2009)

whilst we are kind of on the subject. How come a
US Billion is 1,000,000,000 and a
UK Billion is 1,000,000,000,000?

Can someone answer me? I have never found out why - would be great to know...


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## yogurt_21 (Dec 30, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> 1 inch = 1 MailMan



your poor wife.


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## MRCL (Dec 30, 2009)

WhiteLotus said:


> whilst we are kind of on the subject. How come a
> US Billion is 1,000,000,000 and a
> UK Billion is 1,000,000,000,000?
> 
> Can someone answer me? I have never found out why - would be great to know...



In German speaking countires, 1,000,000,000 is called a milliard. I think thats language and/or location based, since your US billion is our milliard. It goes million - milliard - billion - billiard etc. You just have million, then billion. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## FordGT90Concept (Dec 30, 2009)

WhiteLotus said:


> whilst we are kind of on the subject. How come a
> US Billion is 1,000,000,000 and a
> UK Billion is 1,000,000,000,000?
> 
> Can someone answer me? I have never found out why - would be great to know...


There's a bunch of theories here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-61424,00.html

This is probably the best answer:


> •To Americans and the French, a billion means a thousand millions (1,000,000,000, or 10 to the ninth, what some British call a milliard, a term that seems never to have been widely accepted).
> 
> To the British, including the Empire and the Commonwealth, billion has long meant a million millions (1,000,000,000,000, or 10 to the twelfth), what Americans call a trillion.
> 
> ...






MRCL said:


> In German speaking countires, 1,000,000,000 is called a milliard. I think thats language and/or location based, since your US billion is our milliard. It goes million - milliard - billion - billiard etc. You just have million, then billion. Correct me if I'm wrong.


I say just long hand it and there won't be any confusion.  If you want a 1,000,000,000 of something, ask for 1,000,000,000.


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## WhiteLotus (Dec 30, 2009)

MRCL said:


> In German speaking countires, 1,000,000,000 is called a milliard. I think thats language and/or location based, since your US billion is our milliard. It goes million - milliard - billion - billiard etc. You just have million, then billion. Correct me if I'm wrong.



ah i see. I am from the UK, and i want the number milliard to be used. As it just sounds awesome.


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## MRCL (Dec 30, 2009)

FordGT90Concept said:


> I say just long hand it and there won't be any confusion.  If you want a 1,000,000,000 of something, ask for 1,000,000,000.



Written, thats no problem. Spoken well... I was confused when I was first confronted with the US billion. I think it was about Bill Gates and his billions of dollars and I was like whoa, but then I learned what an US billion is

Its not that hard to switch between. You just have to pay attention.



WhiteLotus said:


> ah i see. I am from the UK, and i want the number milliard to be used. As it just sounds awesome.



I want a phantastilliard. Scrooge McDucks (or Dagobert Duck as called here) asset. A number with 80 zeroes. Oh yeah.


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## Triprift (Dec 30, 2009)

Man this is so confusing give me the MailMan system anyday.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 30, 2009)

yogurt_21 said:


> your poor wife.


 1 yard also = 1 MailMan. 

TheMailMan system is flawless.


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## MRCL (Dec 30, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> 1 yard also = 1 MailMan.
> 
> TheMailMan system is flawless.



But then how come a piece of paper is one MailMan squared, and the size of Florida is also one Mailman squared.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 30, 2009)

MRCL said:


> But then how come a piece of paper is one MailMan squared, and the size of Florida is also one Mailman squared.



Because they are only one MailMan squared.


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## MRCL (Dec 30, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Because they are only one MailMan squared.



So you say the diameter of your facial hair (one Mailman) is like the suns (also one Mailman).
a-HA! The flaw-detector tingles!


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 30, 2009)

MRCL said:


> So you say the diameter of your facial hair (one Mailman) is like the suns (also one Mailman).
> a-HA! The flaw-detector tingles!



The sun has facial hair?


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## MRCL (Dec 30, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> The sun has facial hair?



The suns diameter, I'm sorry.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 30, 2009)

MRCL said:


> The suns diameter, *I'm sorry*.



I thought you were MRCL? WTF is going on here?!


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## MRCL (Dec 30, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I thought you were MRCL? WTF is going on here?!



I am multiple beings, but this is of no relevance here.

FACT IS, your system has its advantages, but is weak.


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## Deleted member 67555 (Dec 30, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I thought you were MRCL? WTF is going on here?!



OMG MRCL is missing too! 
I can't find my daughter either...

I bet Sorry and Hungry can help find em


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## Deleted member 67555 (Dec 30, 2009)

MRCL said:


> I am multiple beings, but this is of no relevance here.
> 
> FACT IS, your system has its advantages, but is weak.


Ok if you can be more than 1 being and So can my Daughter
then 
I'M BATMAN now


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## MRCL (Dec 30, 2009)

jmcslob said:


> Ok if you can be more than 1 being and So can my Daughter
> then
> I'M BATMAN now



So YOU'RE this guy then


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## Deleted member 67555 (Dec 30, 2009)

MRCL said:


> So YOU'RE this guy then



Dammit!!!!

there goes my secret Identity


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