# Laptop battery charging limiter software?



## RejZoR (May 20, 2018)

Is there any software for Windows that could limit charging of the battery on laptop to a desired percentage in order o extend its life?


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## AsRock (May 20, 2018)

I have only seen it on Lenovo Laptops, although never really looked for it and used to at least come with the IBM\Lenovo Laptop's were you can tell it 90% is max charge which i believe is what your on about ?.


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## newtekie1 (May 20, 2018)

AsRock said:


> I have only seen it on Lenovo Laptops, although never really looked for it and used to at least come with the IBM\Lenovo Laptop's were you can tell it 90% is max charge which i believe is what your on about ?.



My ASUS laptop also has it.  It lets you pick 100%, 80%, or 60%.

I don't think there is going to be a generic software that will do this.  The software has to know how to communicate and control the charge controller and I don't think there is any industry standard when it comes to this.  I'd bet there are a lot of charge controllers that don't even respond to commands.


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## AsRock (May 20, 2018)

That new to ASUS Laptops ?, the one we had never had it (2012) well not installed by default at least


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## newtekie1 (May 20, 2018)

AsRock said:


> That new to ASUS Laptops ?, the one we had never had it (2012) well not installed by default at least



Somewhat new, I bought this laptop last November and it has it, by the ASUS laptop I bought in 2014 did not.  I tried installing the application on the 2014 laptop and it didn't work.


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## Bill_Bright (May 20, 2018)

RejZoR said:


> Is there any software for Windows that could limit charging of the battery on laptop to a desired percentage in order o extend its life?


There is no consensus suggesting such restrictions do any good with today's batteries. The "marketing" hype behind it is to prevent the battery from over-heating or worse, over-charging - events that may indeed shorted battery life. But notebook charging/monitoring circuits are not going to let a battery overcharge. And thermal protection devices are going to prevent over-heating. What may seem too warm for us is not necessarily too hot for the battery.

Chargers do NOT keep charging the batteries beyond 100%. And batteries do NOT keep asking for charge current once charged.

You will see some "experts" (cough cough) claim that Li-Ion batteries get too hot when they max out their charge to 100%. Bullfeathers! If that were true, why would battery makers allow it? The shysters... err... lawyers in their legal departments would not allow it!

Charge your battery to 100%. Pull the battery and let it sit on a table for 15 minutes. Does it stay hot? 

Modern Li-Ion batteries are pretty smart. And so are notebook charging circuits. Batteries tend to charge very rapidly from discharged up to 70 - 80%. And that's when they tend to get the most heated. As they approach a full charge, they take on a charge at a much (s)lower rate. We see this all the time on our devices. It moves really quickly at first, then takes forever to reach those last few percentage points. That's perfectly normal. But it also means the lower charge rate generates less heat. 

If this feature was necessary, why don't all cell phones have it? They use Li-Ion batteries. People leave them plugged in all night long.

See Tip # 6 here (second paragraph). 

IMO, if your notebook does not offer the option, don't worry about it. Instead, enjoy the longer runtimes a full charge provides.


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## newtekie1 (May 20, 2018)

Please go look up the science, it isn't about heat at all.  Charging Li-ion cells above 4v causes lithium atoms to be deposited on the negative anode.  Over time this builds up, and this is the main cause for cell degradation as that layer of lithium atoms gets thicker.  The lithium atom deposits actually happen every time you charge the cell, but it gets much worse as go above 4v, and gets increasingly worse the higher you go above 4v.  The normal 100% charge for a li-ion battery is 4.2v.  But there have been several studies now that show that keeping the charge voltage below 4v doe noticeably improve battery life.  I seem to remember reading that Tesla only charges their batteries to 3.9v to extend the battery's life span.


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## RejZoR (May 20, 2018)

It's not even about overcharging because it's impossible. It's about chemical processes going on in batteries when they are reaching peak capacity. Heat is part of the problem because they get much warmer when peaking power, but it's how cycles are counted when charged to only 80% opposed to 100%.


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## newtekie1 (May 20, 2018)

RejZoR said:


> It's not even about overcharging because it's impossible.



It depends on what you want to consider overcharging.  Normally, 4.2v is not considered overcharging, it is right about where the protection circuitry will cut off charging.  However, if you are going for long life of a battery, then you really don't want to go over 4v, so 4.2v would be overcharging.  It is a trade off of capacity for longevity.  With most laptops, they go for capacity over longevity.  But now that were are seeing sealed laptops with non-user replaceable batteries, I'm all for manufacturers including software that limits the charge to prolong battery life expectancy.

I personally leave my laptop set to the balanced setting, which keeps the battery at 80%, even though the battery isn't terribly hard to change if I had to.  I still would prefer not to have to do it in 3 years like I did with my last one.


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## RejZoR (May 20, 2018)

I'm mostly concerned about HP X2 laptop that has integrated battery and I can't just simply buy a new one. It lasts for hours anyway so 20% less charge for longer lifetime is perfectly acceptable.


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## Bill_Bright (May 20, 2018)

newtekie1 said:


> Over time this builds up, and this is the main cause for cell degradation as that layer of lithium atoms gets thicker.


I am not disputing this. What I am saying (and should have made clear above) is there is no real consensus whether using such features actually extends the usable life expectancy of the batteries to any significant degree, or not. 

There is also no consensus on whether the trade-off is beneficial to the user.  By that I mean, does the "possible" (but not guaranteed!) increase in life expectancy for the battery off-set the "actual" decrease in battery runtime the user "will" encounter - perhaps every day? 

Also, will any "possible" (but not guaranteed!) increase in the life expectancy of the battery ensure the battery lasts as long as the usefulness/life expectancy of the notebook itself? Or will the notebook be replaced just because the users wants something newer before the battery dies? Or does the user expect to keep that notebook until the motherboard (or something else) dies?

For example (and I am NOT saying one example sets the rule), I bought my Toshiba A505 way back in Feb 2010. It does not have that charging limiter feature. It sits plugged into the charger 24/7, almost 365 days. I let it fully discharge probably once every 4 - 5 weeks. As seen in those specs, when new, the battery had a runtime of 2 hours, 35 minutes. Today, more than 8 years later with the original battery, I get right at 2 hours of run time. I think that is pretty darn good for an 8 year old rechargeable battery.

Now all batteries lose capability over time. I believe the loss I see with mine is normal. Certainly, a notebook battery that still supports its notebook after 8 years is good. A notebook that still works after 8 yeas is good! But that's for a different discussion.

IMO, having that feature would not provide me any significant improvement today. And more importantly (for me), back when I bought the notebook, it was heavily used as a mobile computer for the first 3 months I owned it. Limiting the charge would have significantly limited my runtimes on battery to the point the notebook would not have served my mobile needs at the time. 

There are a lot of variables here, with each user and their notebook usage patterns being unique. Do they use the notebook on battery every day? How many hours per day? In what kinds of environments? How often do they buy a new notebook? 

I've personally owned 3 notebooks over the years. Two Dells and this Toshiba. The first Dell I replaced for more power after about 4 years. Then second Dell I replaced with this Toshiba after 5 years for more power, bigger screen and thinner/lighter case. I have never had to replace a battery. They never failed before I upgraded to a newer notebook for other reasons. And they all still provided satisfactory battery runtimes (compared to when new) while I owned them.


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## silentbogo (May 20, 2018)

RejZoR said:


> Is there any software for Windows that could limit charging of the battery on laptop to a desired percentage in order o extend its life?


Some laptops have this feature in BIOS. It's usually called "battery saver", or "battery life extension".

And, I do agree with @Bill_Bright  on this one - in my experience even if you pull out the battery at 70% charge and store it whenever you are not using it, it still has an equal chance of going bad just as fast as a regularly used battery w/ many charge cycles. The only thing that kills lithium cells for sure, is a full discharge. Regarding newer batteries (built-in or otherwise), you are more likely to see a charge controller failure before getting even a 20% wear on cells. They are simply really cheap, even if priced at premium. I think just this year alone I had over a dozen or two of Acer V3 and V5 laptops, Fujitsu and ASUS ultrabooks, and some other stuff with bad controller(inside the battery), but fully functional(and fully charged) cells. They simply stop charging and/or supplying power.


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## Bill_Bright (May 20, 2018)

silentbogo said:


> The only thing that kills lithium cells for sure, is a full discharge.


And that's pretty hard to do - in fact, it typically requires a fault - like a shorted component to allow the battery to fully discharge. And if you had a shorted component in the battery or the notebook's charging circuit, you likely could never get a full charge any way. It is more likely the short (which would cause excess - perhaps excessive - current) would result in the battery failing to charge at all. Or worse, catching fire.


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## RejZoR (May 20, 2018)

Found a tool that works. Downside, you need to be around and laptop needs to be turned on. When it reaches a designated charge, it starts beeping obnoxiously to let you know to unplug it. It can also be used to warn you when it's 100% charged if you need to have it fully charged and ready to move out (so you don't have to check on it all the time).

*Battery Limiter*
http://www.robotonfire.com/bl/


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