# Options for Home Theatre + PC



## Hotobu (Nov 5, 2022)

My old receiver blew up, and tbh I'm not sure if I ever had an optimal setup.

I would just go out and replace it, but unfortunately there are no 48 gbps capable receivers (for full 4K bandwidth) on the market. Previously I was going Video Card -> TV (Optical Out)-> Receiver. I could skip waiting for a 48gbps and replicate my old setup, but I want to make sure I'm not losing anything other than DTS from games that are capable. Also, I'm not sure if I was really getting the best possible surround experience from some games/windows. So if I do not want to wait, and go buy a new receiver, what was I missing with my old setup? Would the experience be better with a soundcard? Will I never have the best sound without going PC -> Receiver -> TV?


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## Frick (Nov 5, 2022)

What happaned to it, and what model was it? It could be worth repairing.


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## cvaldes (Nov 5, 2022)

My guess is that consumer 48 Gbps A/V receivers will start showing up on the market next year alongside consumer HDMI 2.1 televisions and monitors. Just wait for announcements at CES in January.

Generally speaking you're better off going PC > receiver > television for fewer chances of decoding and passthrough issues.


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## Readlight (Nov 5, 2022)

Resolder that burnt SMD resistor . You need receiver service manual with component list and soldering stuff.


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## Hotobu (Nov 5, 2022)

Frick said:


> What happaned to it, and what model was it? It could be worth repairing.


It really isn't,  it's about 15 years old at this point.  I was planning on upgrading anyway. I just need to figure out the correct path.


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## Frick (Nov 5, 2022)

Hotobu said:


> It really isn't,  it's about 15 years old at this point.  I was planning on upgrading anyway. I just need to figure out the correct path.



Still, what model? Are we talking a $4000 Yamaha or what?


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## cvaldes (Nov 5, 2022)

Frick said:


> Still, what model? Are we talking a $4000 Yamaha or what?



What does it matter? Even if OP had the technical skills and equipment to diagnose and repair the failure, that doesn't change the fact that it's a 15 year old receiver. Some other component is likely to fail at that age.

Look at this comment:

_"Resolder that burnt SMD resistor . You need receiver service manual with component list and soldering stuff."_

That assumes that it's a burnt SMD resistor. That's a BIG assumption. Then OP needs the service manual, needs to figure out how to source the correct replacement part, then buy soldering gear, learn out to use it and finally do it without electrocuting himself.

That's nuts. 

Only in PC forums do we see a large number of commenters who seem to live in these bubble worlds of IT staffers or PC repair shop technicians. And just in PC forums. You don't see people in food forums talking like they're running Michelin 3-star restaurants or catering kitchens at some airport, discussing walk-in refrigerators, commercial pizza ovens, whatever.


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## Frick (Nov 5, 2022)

cvaldes said:


> What does it matter? Even if OP had the technical skills and equipment to diagnose and repair the failure, that doesn't change the fact that it's a 15 year old receiver. Some other component is likely to fail at that age.



It matters because if it's a good reciever it's probably worth having it repaired. I'm assuming it's not a $4000 Yamaha, but still. Good sound does not age the same way say a GPU does.


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## ThrashZone (Nov 5, 2022)

Hi,
Well a budget would be nice to know guess the speakers are still okay
Otherwise find a cheap sound card or a low end receiver.


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## cvaldes (Nov 5, 2022)

Frick said:


> It matters because if it's a good reciever it's probably worth having it repaired. I'm assuming it's not a $4000 Yamaha, but still. Good sound does not age the same way say a GPU does.



One thing I know is that A/V receivers in 2022 are **FAR** easy to wire than 15 year old A/V receivers since it's mostly HDMI inputs.

There are also newer technologies (like Dolby Atmos or HDMI ARC) that old receivers don't support. It's not just about audio quality.

And people have more devices in general, whether it be media boxes (Roku, etc.), additional game consoles (like a Nintendo Switch dock) beyond the PC-receiver-optical disc player-TV paradigm. A lot of these devices don't have RCA audio jack outputs which is what 15 year old receivers had.

And a 15-year receiver probably didn't have more than one or two HDMI inputs.

And then there's Bluetooth. A lot of people might want to pair their smartphone or some wireless headphones/earbuds to the A/V receiver. No more 3 meter headphone extension cords.

In 2022 it's not just about sending sound to a pair of speakers.


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## Frick (Nov 5, 2022)

cvaldes said:


> One thing I know is that A/V receivers in 2022 are **FAR** easy to wire than 15 year old A/V receivers since it's mostly HDMI inputs.
> 
> There are also newer technologies (like Dolby Atmos or HDMI ARC) that old receivers don't support. It's not just about audio quality.
> 
> ...



Fair enough. I just hate the idea of tossing broken audio equipment because of fixable problems.


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## Hotobu (Nov 5, 2022)

Frick said:


> It matters because if it's a good reciever it's probably worth having it repaired. I'm assuming it's not a $4000 Yamaha, but still. Good sound does not age the same way say a GPU does.


It was this one (12 years old apparently), https://www.newegg.com/yamaha-rx-a800-receiver/p/N82E16882115274, but as @cvaldes said the repairing recommendations are beyond the scope of my abilities, and what I even care to do. It was time for a new one anyway.


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## Operandi (Nov 7, 2022)

Surround sound processors and dedicated multichannel amps are still a thing.  Maybe you could pick up a used processor that matches the functionality of what you had in the AVR and pair it with however many channel amp you need.  When the processor that supports the features you want comes out upgrade to that and use the same amp.  The amp should last for decades, is probably way better than whats in anything but the highest end AVRs, and then you only need to upgrade the surround sound processor as standards change.

I really know next to nothing about surround sound and use my two channel music setup for movies but I think if were to set something surround I think I'd go that route.


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## SchumannFrequency (Nov 10, 2022)

> Would the experience be better with a soundcard?


On windows you (usually) have a better experience if you use a sound card. FreeBSD, on the other hand, can provide very high-quality sound on your motherboard's analog connection, so you don't need a sound card on this system.

You can also buy the F&D F550X instead of a new receiver and connect it directly to your TV.

This F550X sounds better than the well-known B&W high-end speakers in the 1000-1500 dollar segment. When I bought the F550X it was $71 at the store where I bought it.

I use FreeBSD in combination with mpd, bitperfect mode and real-time sound settings. 

Another advantage is that you have control over treble and bass, which is often not even available with much more expensive Edifier speakers. You also have Bluetooth and a USB, FM radio and mute button on the remote control and you can turn the light on/off via the remote control.


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## claes (Nov 10, 2022)

Oof that was tough to read. Gotta abandon that authoritative tone my friend you sound crazy


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## SchumannFrequency (Nov 13, 2022)

claes said:


> Oof that was tough to read. Gotta abandon that authoritative tone my friend you sound crazy


It was never my intention to come across that way.
I think that the things I have said are not insane.

In terms of sound card. Suppose Microsoft would ensure that the audio stack of windows _without_ a sound card works perfectly and has extremely high-quality sound. Who is going to buy a sound card then? It is a fact that windows is a commercial product and that Microsoft has close contacts with other commercial players.

We can also verify whether the sound of Microsoft products is as good as other options:








						Is it me, or is sound really great on FreeBSD?
					

I don't know if it's me or not, but damn...  I feel like sound is so much better on FreeBSD than it was on Windows 10...  I don't know why, and I couldn't explain it, but it like sound is so much clearer, sharper, more... alive...  The main thing that allows me to think it's not just my...




					forums.freebsd.org
				











						Why Vista sounds worse
					

Changes to how the latest version of Windows handles audio playback has caused unexpected quality issues for musicians and consumers alike, reports Tim Anderson




					www.theguardian.com
				




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/CODWarzone/comments/t02nkn

Furthermore, it is also not crazy to say that many high-end brands no longer sound like high-end brands in 2022. Just look at the ratings of the following brands:








						Bowers & Wilkins is rated "Poor" with 2 / 5 on Trustpilot
					

Do you agree with Bowers & Wilkins's TrustScore? Voice your opinion today and hear what 88 customers have already said.




					www.trustpilot.com
				











						Sonos Europe B.V.  is rated "Bad" with 1.5 / 5 on Trustpilot
					

Do you agree with Sonos Europe B.V. 's TrustScore? Voice your opinion today and hear what 2,550 customers have already said.




					www.trustpilot.com
				











						Bose is rated "Bad" with 1.7 / 5 on Trustpilot
					

Do you agree with Bose's TrustScore? Voice your opinion today and hear what 1,152 customers have already said.




					www.trustpilot.com
				



Etc.

In the case of B&W, which is one of the largest high-end brands, their production for almost all parts has moved to China.

There's also the fact that B&W's chief engineer has admitted that the current design of their internal chambers is very poor, which has a significant impact on the purity of the sound. There are important parts of the current designs that have gotten worse from how it was in the past.

F&D is often ten times cheaper than B&W and other high-end brands, but their sound is often better:
































https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebVUQC-BUuA








						Legendary F&D T60X Tower speakers added to my WFH setup. Detailed video coming soon. Stay tuned.
					

Buy F&D T60X - https://amzn.to/3Os0r3h




					www.youtube.com
				




In these sound demos they usually play music via Bluetooth. What I've noticed is that these F&D speakers scale much better on an analog connection. (I think this applies to all brands) You just need to connect these speakers to a PC running FreeBSD in bit-perfect mode with real-time sound settings. And then you have to use mpd (music player daemon) and play tracks in lossless quality. You will often have better sound than what you hear in Hi-Fi specialist stores for systems under 1500 EUR.


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## trickson (Nov 13, 2022)

My Atmos HT is 5.2.4 all Klipsch speakers Even the Jamo are Klipsch BTW.
Personally, I am a Denon owner and my current Denon AVR-X3700H is the best high-end audiophile system that I have ever had. It can do 8K but I am still at 4K and have no plans as of yet to go 8K.
I have another Denon the AVR-S750H 4K Atmos system in 5.2.4 Atmos in the master bedroom now.
The best systems I have ever heard to date in any home are mine.
All my HT systems are driven by Ryzen 7 and 9 computer systems.
My advice? If you want high-end everything in an AVR? Then Denon is my first choice.
Speakers for me are Klipsch the best in High-end audio loudspeakers that are not more than a house. 
You aint got no kind of HT if you aint got a Denon.


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## Operandi (Nov 14, 2022)

SchumannFrequency said:


> In terms of sound card. Suppose Microsoft would ensure that the audio stack of windows _without_ a sound card works perfectly and has extremely high-quality sound. Who is going to buy a sound card then? It is a fact that windows is a commercial product and that Microsoft has close contacts with other commercial players.
> 
> We can also verify whether the sound of Microsoft products is as good as other options:





SchumannFrequency said:


> In these sound demos they usually play music via Bluetooth. What I've noticed is that these F&D speakers scale much better on an analog connection. (I think this applies to all brands) You just need to connect these speakers to a PC running FreeBSD in bit-perfect mode with real-time sound settings. And then you have to use mpd (music player daemon) and play tracks in lossless quality. You will often have better sound than what you hear in Hi-Fi specialist stores for systems under 1500 EUR.


There isn't anything wrong with the modern audio stack in Windows to my knowledge, in the past sure but thats really a thing anymore.  More to the point though the audio stack has nothing to do with a sound card or DACs performance and is so vastly far removed from the electromechanical performance of speakers or headphones talking about the audio stack in the same sentence is pure nonsense.


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## trickson (Nov 15, 2022)

Hotobu said:


> My old receiver blew up, and tbh I'm not sure if I ever had an optimal setup.
> 
> I would just go out and replace it, but unfortunately there are no 48 gbps capable receivers (for full 4K bandwidth) on the market. Previously I was going Video Card -> TV (Optical Out)-> Receiver. I could skip waiting for a 48gbps and replicate my old setup, but I want to make sure I'm not losing anything other than DTS from games that are capable. Also, I'm not sure if I was really getting the best possible surround experience from some games/windows. So if I do not want to wait, and go buy a new receiver, what was I missing with my old setup? Would the experience be better with a soundcard? Will I never have the best sound without going PC -> Receiver -> TV?


If you can afford to get one Denon AVR's are amazing I personally have 3 and love them all.
You won't need a DAC. You can get the 8K and 4K AVR's just stick to DENON for the best Atmos surround sound.

Denon AVR sale.


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## SchumannFrequency (Nov 22, 2022)

Operandi said:


> There isn't anything wrong with the modern audio stack in Windows to my knowledge, in the past sure but thats really a thing anymore.  More to the point though the audio stack has nothing to do with a sound card or DACs performance and is so vastly far removed from the electromechanical performance of speakers or headphones talking about the audio stack in the same sentence is pure nonsense.


The sound is usually less clean than that of FreeBSD. So there is more distortion with windows. In FreeBSD in bit-perfect mode I can hear a difference between eg Audacious and musicpd. Audacious has a more emphasized bass, while musicpd has more clarity in the vocals and instruments. This is not what you would technically expect to hear differences between apps in bit-perfect mode, but it is the reality. There are always subtle and less subtle differences in the implementation (software/code).

Both Audacious and musicpd on FreeBSD sound significantly more correct/clinical on my F&D speakers than what I can reproduce on windows systems, even using the ASIO drivers. You have to make the comparison yourself. As said before, I use FreeBSD in bit-perfect mode, but _also_ with real-time audio settings and musicpd. Those three settings give sound that windows will never be able to match in my experience.

As you say, the DAC also has an impact, but I'm using a cheap and old MSI motherboard, so I suspect most newer motherboards will have a better DAC. What I am going to claim is that my system (specific hardware + specific software settings) produces sound that cannot be significantly (noticeably) improved.

I notice this especially when I use my Audio-Technica headphones. Then I have a purer sound than what I have heard at any Hi-Fi store, B&W owners, Beyerdynamic users, etc. I've also already showcased my system to a few people and what specifically surprises people is the dimension that people can hear in the sound.

I'm currently getting a better microphone so I can make a detailed sound demo of the amazing sound coming out of my cheap hardware. But here's a recording with my cheap HAMA MIC-P35:





						F&D550 sound demo.m4a
					






					drive.google.com


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## Operandi (Nov 22, 2022)

SchumannFrequency said:


> The sound is usually less clean than that of FreeBSD. So there is more distortion with windows. In FreeBSD in bit-perfect mode I can hear a difference between eg Audacious and musicpd. Audacious has a more emphasized bass, while musicpd has more clarity in the vocals and instruments. This is not what you would technically expect to hear differences between apps in bit-perfect mode, but it is the reality. There are always subtle and less subtle differences in the implementation (software/code).
> 
> Both Audacious and musicpd on FreeBSD sound significantly more correct/clinical on my F&D speakers than what I can reproduce on windows systems, even using the ASIO drivers. You have to make the comparison yourself. As said before, I use FreeBSD in bit-perfect mode, but _also_ with real-time audio settings and musicpd. Those three settings give sound that windows will never be able to match in my experience.
> 
> ...


1. Windows could still be better as far as how it upsamples but as long as you aren't upsampling and using exclusive mode I don't see how it can be any different than anything else (Linux, FreeBSD, Android).

2. There is some argument for a dedicated streaming device but thats a hardware thing and really isn't impacted by software stack and is completely an audiophile thing.  Literally everything else matters more than this so you'd only look at your streaming source after you have everything else really well sorted.

3. Anyone taking this to level is going to be looking at Roon or something similar.  I'm sure FreeBSD and MPD does a great job but nobody is going to go that route.

4. This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.  The OP's receiver died so he needs new hardware, this completely off topic and not useful to the discussion.


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