# 5 full computer systems needed for very basic IT/ICT teaching @ Community Centre - UK



## Moyt (Aug 1, 2014)

Hi there experts! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I'm in great need of your advice. Any help would be much appreciated, so many thanks in advance.

My dad works in a community centre in his spare time and received a grant of £3,000 GBP/$5050+ USD to buy 5 computers for a community centre. So he wants to use the opportunity to help others who lack in IT skills, and those who are not familiar with using PC's to use these systems.

He'll have to think about getting in a lecturer at a later time, but for now I need to help him get around to setting this up within the budget. And I'm not very knowledgeable in setting these things up when it comes to networking side especially. But know the basics somewhat...I think aha!

Here are things to consider:

1. We don't want to blow the whole 3k on 5 computer systems - we want to save aside as much as possible to invest towards chairs, tables, decorating etc. That will be a separate financial matter but every little saved will help. I know it would be a laughable budget IF for 5 GAMING systems, but that's not the aim here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




2. These systems will be used for very basic IT training - How to use Microsoft Office applications, for those who have hardly used a PC to get to grips with one, very basic web browsing etc.

3. NO complicated network with admin controls and restrictions required. It's a small room and will be easy for 1 lecturer to see what's going on with 5 computers around them at one time. But I would like them to be networked in such a way so that it is all running self-sufficiently and securely.
Will be going for the wired internet option rather than a wireless network. I've never done this kind of thing with multiple systems, so I'll go more into what I'll be getting so that people can correct and advise me if I'm going wrong anywhere....


*Hardware to buy:*

*1. *x5 full computer systems...
That are good enough to run basic applications such as Microsoft Office applications, and for basic web browsing. If someone could give a decent system as reference from THIS SITE DABS.COM in the UK (then a search from price low-high) that would be great. Then I can shop around everywhere to find the best priced system of similar spec.
Provided mouse and keyboard would be a bonus, otherwise I will buy these separate anyway.
No need for a fancy Blu-ray drive either, just a basic DVD drive. IF pre-installed with Windows 7 x64 and works out cheaper that way then would be a bonus.
Just one system for example (without looking into it too much right now) might be this 'Zoostorm mATX Intel Pentium G3220 4GB 500GB No OS' @ £200 GP /$336 USD (better details HERE):



> Processor Intel® Pentium® Processor G3220 (3M Cache, 3.00 GHz)
> RAM 4GB DDR3 1333MHz
> HDD 500GB SATA Hard Drive
> Graphics Card On Board
> ...


Sure the specs might be somewhat laughable, but need to consider what these systems will be actually used for. Again will probably be room for better systems anyhow when I start to look for the best deals around.

*2.* To accompany the systems each will need a monitor. So 5 monitors to consider. Again nothing crazy fancy needed.
So something like this Acer K192HQLB 18.5" will do.

*3.* x8 lots of Ethernet cables - a few extra added.

*4.* A switch box like this D-Link 24-Port 10/100Mbps Nway.
Again if there's a better and cheaper option please let me know. I thought I'd consider a 24 port switch just in case the community centre might add more computers in the future. This will be connected directly to the internet service providers ROUTER FROM BT.
The internet speeds aren't great at the community centre either. I did a wireless speed-test there some weeks back:




So might be a struggle if 5 people are browsing at the same time. But again will be for light and basic use. May consider upgrading speeds if it becomes too much of a struggle.

*5.* Printer. I'm thinking of a mono laser printer for heavy printing tasks? We don't need a colour printer, just for black and white printouts only. Could someone recommend a few that is good on running costs? Thanks.


*SOFTWARE:*

*1.*Microsoft Windows 7 Professional OEM Licence and Media LCP SP1 64-bit x5 - DEPENDS if the systems bought are already inclusive of Windows 7. There are some that are inclusive of Windows 8.1 but that OS won't be very useful for learners. Unless I buy Stardock's START 8 licenses to make them run like W7? See what works out most effective in costs and usefulness. Your opinions would be greatly appreciated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*2.*Microsoft Office Home & Student 2013 - 32/64-bit - 1 License (No Disc) x5

*3.* Recommended decent FREE anti-virus software that's not too heavy on hardware? x5 - If say I end up with W8 then I guess the default Windows defender would suffice I guess. It all comes down to what OS boils down to.

*4. *Not quite sure about the type of software licenses above with it being a community centre, but hopefully I'm okay I think 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





THAT'S ALL FOR NOW 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




If you think I'm going bonkers and in the wrong direction with anything please give me a shout. Any help would be very much appreciated. Please consider that the aim is not to blow the whole budget away. Once I know the specs to go for THEN I will shop everywhere for the best prices.
Thank you for taking the time to reading all this!

My small part for trying to help others learn, even I might end up jumping on a course if I don't make sense in this post lol.
Hope it all works out in the end


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## silkstone (Aug 1, 2014)

Avira and Avast are okay free antiviruses. Windows defender doesn't really protect against much and MSE will be inadequate for a community center.

You might want to install something like K9 parental control to reduce the risk of people visiting websites that they shouldn't.

The only other thing I can think is that you'd be better choosing 2nd hand core2duo systems, to reduce costs, but you might run into issues if you aren't that knowledgeable about setting things up.

Or you could go the route of the A1 socket chips by AMD. They are cheap and should suffice for basic browsing and office applications.


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## micropage7 (Aug 1, 2014)

looks good, but for printer, even its color you can set it gray scale when printing
and yes, maybe you could consider freeware word processing, like libre office or like that, so you have alternative apps


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## Moyt (Aug 1, 2014)

Thanks for the replies.

@silkstone
So as far as free software protection goes:
- Will go with free Avira thanks  
- K9 parental control. No harm in installing this so I'll do this also.
Someone suggest Malwarebytes as well. So I'll be installing that on top as well.

@ micropage7.
True for the printer settings part. Only problem is that these systems will most likely be used for people who much experience at all with computers and most likely will only print off B&W documents. Either way we want to avoid using colour or give people the ability to hammer away on colour printouts / save on costs. There is already a heavy office use colour printer in the office. So for odd occasions when needed, colour can be used by learners (sorry I didn't point this out before).
I think I may still be going for Office Home and Student. It all depends how much I spend on the hardware.

Again I'm no network guru by any means. But to save on costs someone recommended the 'TP LINK 16-port 10/100 Desktop Switch' @ £17.19 GBP.
This has already saved money VS the original D-Link 24-Port 10/100Mbps Nway @ £35.08 GBP. I'm assuming the TP LINK switch is still a very good choice for what I need to do.

I will look properly for competitive prices once my mind is set on the hardware. Could even squeeze for intel i3 PC's but I'll see first what bargains I can hunt down on.
On another note I won't be looking into building systems as I know this would save me money/have better spec systems for the same price. Last time I built a system was 10 years ago and that was just 1...yikes!
My free time is limited and am doing this all for free for the community centre 

Again appreciate the suggestions. Any more advice is very welcome.
Thanks again


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## RCoon (Aug 1, 2014)

May I recommend you call insight direct  and novatech directly. They're who I buy my kit from at my grammar school, and usually come in very competitively priced. They'll also allow for some custom choices in your builds and offer you some interesting for avenues. I'm I'm the UK so you're welcome to PM me if you need in depth details


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## Moyt (Aug 1, 2014)

Thanks for the recommendations RCoon. 
I might drop those companies an e-mail and see what they have to offer. Least I will be able to think more clearly seeing things typed


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## CJCerny (Aug 1, 2014)

You are underestimating the effort needed to limit the users from using the Internet for donkey pron. That is the part that needs to be well thought out.


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## Moyt (Aug 1, 2014)

True, but hopefully any lecturer I'm hoping has the ability to see what's happening around 5 computers I hope. Twice as many units and more would be of concern.


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## Batou1986 (Aug 1, 2014)

Another thing to consider is some routers come with parental control and web filtering, this is much easier from a management standpoint and a lot harder for someone to bypass.


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## CJCerny (Aug 1, 2014)

Software filters like K9 have their downsides--you boot to a USB stick and you can still get donkey pron. Many routers/switches have "family friendly" controls that cannot be circumvented. You will want to educate yourself on your options.


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## Moyt (Aug 1, 2014)

Guess no set-up is safe these days, but will try my best to leave things safe as best as I can with what I have. Thanks for pointing out these things.


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## Shambles1980 (Aug 1, 2014)

i dont see anything overly wrong with your set up. the G3220 should be more than enough for what you say you plan to use them for. maybe some amd offerings could be a bit lower priced  (im not usre though) prehaps an a8 apu set up ..
i dont think you need 500Gb hdd on each system. 1/2 of that would probably be more than enough, and enourage the people who come to learn to buy a small usb pen drive. and anything they need to save can be added to that.
this will also help them learn with saving/transfering files

I would highly reccomend a single shared network printer like the samsung ml-2250 (it is only black and white) its what i use at home my self after years of using trafditional ink based printers.

it may be expensive to re fill with toner. and the initial purchace could be quite high. but it is absolutley in a different planet when it comes to how long toner lasts versus ink.
they are also a LOT faster printing. "there is a start up process delay though. where it will warm up and get ready for a good 10-15 seconds. then its just spitting the pages out at you)
genuinely you would replace the ink in a printer atleast 10 times before you had to change it in a decent toner using printer. and once you start doing that the better printer is paying for its self.

a second option for a network is to just rout the computers all together using crossover cabes. but this would require an additional lan cards in all but one of them. and some ics settings so it is probably easier just to get a router/hub im sure there are plenty of 5-6 port routers out there so you wont need a seperate switch and can always set it up as a repeater to your current network if you have one.. or you could just go wireless "although i probably wouldnt go wireless"


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## Moyt (Aug 2, 2014)

@ Shambles1980 - Thanks for your input and time to respond.
TBH there's always things with pre-build systems I could do with taking out and not doing with. Like with the 500GB HDD you mentioned - no need for that much. But I'll just make do with what I can do with pre-built ones, as unfortunately I don't have the time or effort to build all these systems. Also not so confident either as I haven't built one for a long time either 
Decided on the HP LaserJet Pro M1132 Mono Laser Multifunction Printer. A little pricey for what I wanted to spend but in the long run I can get replacement toners for these pretty cheap so it'll pay off. For example a toner for this printer @ £16.99 GBP with free delivery HERE. Just hope they do the trick fine.
I think I will stick to the original TP link switch purchase to use with the original router provided from the ISP. Least it will future proof for more PC's to be added later, with £17.19 not breaking the bank either.



Now this is the final hardware set-up I'm heading towards:

x5 Zoostorm 7877-1036 I3 systems. SPECS HERE = £1263.15

x1 TL-SF1016D TP LINK 16-port 10/100 Desktop Switch = £17.19

x5 19" Dell E-Series E1913S LED Monitor = £300

x5 Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 64 Bit = 174.95 - Huge savings from original price!

x1 Office 365 Small Business Premium for 5 COMPUTERS! = £119.99 - Again huge savings from original price direct from Microsoft!

x1 HP LaserJet Pro M1132 Mono Laser Multifunction Printer = 114.72


*TOTAL = £1990 GBP / $3347.28 USD. 
Original budget £3,000/$5046.15 USD
*
I think that is great. With the huge savings in the software department I can cram in Intel i3 systems instead, bigger monitor, and still have a lot spare which can be used to invest in other things in the community centre.

I was just sceptical about the Office 365 Small Business Premium software for 5 PCs @ £119.99 GBP / $201.83 USD direct from Microsoft HERE of all places! 
Wasn't too sure about the license terms for community centres. So I had an online chat with one of their live chat support reps, and its fine to use, so big plus there! 

I guess other small costs would be Ethernet cables, but I'll just simply buy those off eBay.
The Zoostorm i3 systems I haven't tried to haggle down in price yet, so could save even more.

Hopefully I've not forgot anything else major.


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## silkstone (Aug 2, 2014)

Remember that office 365 is subscription based, so you have to re-subscribe each year.


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## Toothless (Aug 2, 2014)

Look at pchcables for ethernet cables.  Cheap and good quality.


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## Moyt (Aug 2, 2014)

That's fine Silkstone. I think the original Office purchase I was going to make was for a 1 year license only also. Except that was @ £94.99 GBP each x5 
This time it's an absolute bargain 
Thanks for making sure I'm aware, sometimes I can easily miss out on details like that.

EDIT: OOOOOPS. Actually my mistake yes different types of licenses! Thanks for pointing it out actually yikes! But may still go for 1 year only just to see how it goes.

@ Lightbulbie - aren't they based in the US? I'm in the UK, so prob not worth the time to wait on. Also correct me if I'm wrong but aren't most Ethernet cables even on eBay to good standard quality these days right? Usually if the feedback is in the 100's and 1000's of items sold I usually go for them.


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## Toothless (Aug 2, 2014)

Oh. Apologies. I didn't see that you're in the UK.


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## Fourstaff (Aug 2, 2014)

You might want to invest in a few locks in case someone feels like carting them off.


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## micropage7 (Aug 2, 2014)

beside software side to block any porn you may set your dns
http://how2doit.in/block-porn-websites/


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## a_ump (Aug 2, 2014)

I'm sure you know more about your needs but you mentioned a black and white only printer, but plan to do Microsoft Office instructing with this setup?  I know power point presentations tend to use color a good bit, idk if you'll print them or not.  Just a thought as excel also uses colors sometimes such as accounting charts and whatnot, red for deficits. Food for thought


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## Moyt (Aug 2, 2014)

@ Fourstaff, micropage7, a_ump - thanks for your input. 

To be quite frank, once this is set up that's me done there. 
I'm far from an ICT/IT person, hence some of my random questions here lol! Safe to say I won't be the one teaching, I still need to teach myself 
This community centre isn't owned by my dad and isn't associated with myself at all. Just a community centre my dad just supervises on very odd occasions part time of his own free will. The 'higher-ups' who run the place will have to be responsible for how these systems will be run, looked after, who to employ to teach etc. 
I just happen to offer to try and find the best deals I can with the grant they've received, that is all. But I will do my best to leave the systems running as best I can 
This is all happening only because they received the grant so they're just trying it out to see how it goes. If it doesn't work out then it doesn't - no loss at all for them. Also with this I think the 1 year Office subscription is a more sensible choice rather than blowing over £400+ for 5 computers. 

I'm not sure how in depth the teaching will be. I think TBH from what I've been told most of these people will need to be taught how to turn on a computer even 

BTW anyone think these systems are decent for their basic purpose in the centre?
Zoostorm 7877-1036 I3 systems. SPECS HERE


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## Fourstaff (Aug 2, 2014)

Plenty of power. Hell, my laptop is not even half as powerful (see specs) and I play Civ 5 on it (graphics card is marginally better than Intel's, but you get the idea).


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## Moyt (Aug 2, 2014)

Cool


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## Ahhzz (Aug 2, 2014)

Most of it's been covered, but might I recommend Deep Freeze for when those novices go deleting files because they're named weird, or they decide the machine is running too slow, and didn't have enough space? I would also consider Image for Windows as a backup solution ($30 US from here: we've purchased several licenses thru them, and zero issues). IfW is good for getting a good image of these machines, and being able to restore them with an external drive and CD/USB, "bare metal". Deep Freeze is a good day to day recovery option, reset it at the beginning or end of each class 

There's also this open source relation to "Kiosk" (OpenKiosk), which is supposed to let you setup a PC like a (duh) "kiosk", to minimize what can be done, but that would require a pretty solid bit of IT to manage it, and may restrict more than you'd like...


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## micropage7 (Aug 2, 2014)

Moyt said:


> @ Fourstaff, micropage7, a_ump - thanks for your input.
> 
> To be quite frank, once this is set up that's me done there.
> I'm far from an ICT/IT person, hence some of my random questions here lol! Safe to say I won't be the one teaching, I still need to teach myself
> ...



so do i, im far from IT man,  i learned by doing 
it looks good, especially for basic need
oh yeah i remember something, beside you using like deepfreeze 
maybe you could consider Free System Restore Tools
http://lifehacker.com/5303067/five-best-free-system-restore-tools


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## Hellfire (Aug 2, 2014)

Believe it or not those Zoostorms aren't bad rigs, I had some across my desk a while ago and found Gigabyte boards in them and Western Digital HD's

As for incidentals & little things like cables etc, try speaking to the company you order from, explain its for a Community centre etc and they'll usually be more than happy to donate a couple of quid cables to it. especially with a big order.

Also, Remember keyboard & mice, I'd recommend simple wired ones of course 


As for any help with set ups and especially networking, depending where you're in the UK I am always willing to donate time and networking skills for a good, worthy causes. If interested, drop me a line.


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## Seany1212 (Aug 3, 2014)

Came here to reiterate silkstones point of getting second hand equipment, two weeks ago brought a E8400 wolfdale (£13 eBay), LGA775 mobo (gifted from friend), 4gig DDR2 RAM (£20 friend) and a corsair 500w psu (£25 eBay). 

A lot of LGA775 stuff seems to be going cheap and is still very powerful when you're looking at the core2quad range (Q6600 about £25 ebay) especially for what you need it for.

Also free to drop some networking help if your around the West Midlands.

Seany


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## Moyt (Aug 3, 2014)

Pheeeew thanks for all the informative info guys, very much appreciated! 
It would be nice to save a ridiculous further amount going the used hunting route/building systems from scratch. But I just don't have much free time to do these things. Also some companies offer up to 3 years warranty on their systems. I want the people who run the Community Centre to not only have new systems, but peace of mind to go with it because I'm afraid they are not very versed at all on how computers work and run etc. Luckily it is not coming out of their own pockets as again they were kindly offered a reasonable grant - so they just want to see how things work out.
For some random me who's doing this out of good free will with a busy life, I think I've taken on too much already lol. 
Though as selfish as it kind of sounds. If it was x1 unit for myself I wouldn't dare to think of buying a pre-built system and would most definitely build one from scratch to get the best 'bang for buck' even with used parts...Even though it's been such a  long time since I've even put a PC together/lazy laptop person!

A little story, some PC tech guy from a company was going to charge over £1000+ GBP/ $1680+ USD just for this small installation alone(!) never mind the other charges. I had to jump in and say I'll just do it for free, they were going to get robbed! I can learn something from doing this as well and get some experience in 

From the advise here I will try my best to bargain for a good deal explaining to them the purpose of using these systems to help teach others in need etc, then see what I can work out in the end. 
Problem being the weekend in the UK, no one will reply at the moment. So starting Monday I'll start to make calls - already left e-mails to various computer sites. 

Thanks for the replies and willingness to help me here.  I may just shout for help at some of you if I end up in some networking pinch  
You've all been of great help so thanks again! 

PS - for fellow UK'ers. I'm from the Derbyshire area ^_^


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## Aquinus (Aug 3, 2014)

The downside of building then yourself is that you have to manage repairs AND RMAs on these machines yourself. A lot of companies buy from others like Dell or Apple because if something happens to the computer, they'll replace it in a jiffy. Apple's turnaround time at work is usually 3-4 days, 1 day to send us the box overnight with a label to send it back, one to send it back, another to fix it and sometimes one more day to send it back overnight. All in all, if I start an RMA on Monday, it will be complete by Friday. Just a consideration as businesses tend to be big markets with a lot of money to spend


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## Hellfire (Aug 3, 2014)

I second Aquinus, from a business sense I have always used HP, never hand built due to the problems that might happen.

for this, I would recommend brand new parts and pre built rigs, sure for yourself second hand and building yourself is fine, but not in this situation.


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## Arjai (Aug 3, 2014)

P.S. those ZooStorm PC's will be fine. i3's are plenty capable for your uses, my last school had hundreds throughout the building for student use. I was doing some multi-windowed math programs with them, several different computers, at separate times, and none of them gave me any grief.

In fact, I nearly bought a laptop w/ an i3. But, as a cruncher, I knew the i5 would be better and the i7 I just couldn't justify the cost difference, at the time.

Anyways, best of luck!! Let us know how it goes with set up. Sounds pretty basic but having never done it, I don't really know.


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## RCoon (Aug 3, 2014)

CPC Farnell are the best UK distributors for cables. They are literally the cheapest (without being unreliable), and also offer free delivery on ALL orders. It's also worth noting they do offers on bulk purchases of any kind of cables. I also recommend you speak with Fovia Office for any printing need and also office supplies. We have a £25,000 per year contract with them, and the print service has been admirable. We also purchase Toners from IJT Direct and Toner Giant. They do recycled toners for printers, and their warranty covers any damage dealt to a printer from one of their recycled toners, so you can use it with some peace of mind.

Sorry I haven't replied sooner, I've been out of town for most of the week's end.

For any software needs, I can recommend Ramesys software licensing. Give them a call directly and they may be able to do some deals.

One thing I've heard on the grapevine, Stone have been desperate to take some custom away from Novatech. Even if you're only building 5 PC's, it may be worth calling them up and seeing what deal they can give you. They do advanced RMA and warranties on all systems they build and provide for businesses and schools, and provide their own microsoft licensing too. It may work out cheaper in the longrun to go with a system builder like Novatech, Stone, or Very PC. Warranties can be wonderful things. If you'd like direct contact, I can give you phone numbers for any one of my account managers for printing and computing.


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## Moyt (Aug 4, 2014)

Thanks again everyone I'm soaking in the advice whenever I get free time 

@ RCoon - Thanks once again for the details, very useful info. I've been sending e-mails to all sorts of 'IT solution' websites to see who can strike the best deals on systems. See what I can get before I resort to the phone.


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## Moyt (Aug 5, 2014)

Quick thoughts on this system anyone?
*Zoostorm SFF Desktop PC*

AMD A4-5300 APU
4GB DDR3 + 500GB HDD
SFF Case
DVD Writer
Windows 7 Pro 64Bit
http://www.ebuyer.com/634969-zoostorm-sff-desktop-pc-7260-6006

EBuyer are giving me great discounts, better than Dabs, very-pc couldn't compete, nor can Misco. I'm not sure the others can either but waiting on replies. 
I've never used an AMD *APU* machine before. Though I'm sure even this system will be more than enough, but wanted some opinions on it.
Just waiting for funds so that I can start ordering


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## RCoon (Aug 5, 2014)

Moyt said:


> Quick thoughts on this system anyone?
> *Zoostorm SFF Desktop PC*
> 
> AMD A4-5300 APU
> ...



As much as I love APU's for their designated purpose, I cannot honestly recommend anything other than an Intel pentium/i3 for your specific purposes. The pentium will be faster. The only possible thing I can see the APU having over Intel is cost, maybe, MAYBE it would be faster with video accelerated playback, but that's it.

This is far better:
http://www.ebuyer.com/643320-zoostorm-desktop-pc-7260-8001
+
http://www.ebuyer.com/222455-logitech-mk120-wired-slim-keyboard-and-optical-mouse-920-002552

It's worth noting  this, plus a Crucial MX100 128GB would be the perfect build for such use.
http://www.amazon.co_uk/dp/B00KFAGD88/?tag=tec053-21
(you can use cloning software to transfer the Windows install from the HDD to the SSD, then wipe the HDD afterwards)

And it comes out around the same price as the AMD, but the SSD will make it far far faster. It's pretty much the build we recommend to all Win XP upgraders. Zoostorm G3220 pentium minimum, with the added SSD. If you are disappointed by any of them, I'd eat my hat.


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## Moyt (Aug 5, 2014)

Yikes I'm short for time - other work commitments :d
Ok I will respond later, sound like a good idea! But more work involved . I will just quickly say that the original system the 'Tech' guy who was going to charge over £1000 for installation was going to provide this spec system... :s
Shown exactly on the invoice:
Intel Celeron G1610 - 4GB DDR3 1333Mhz - Intel H61 Motherboard - Novatech CASE & PSU  (@ £149.99 per unit no OS mouse or keyboard etc).

I'm moving onto a system pre-loaded with a OS, because I was originally going to buy these disks from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.co_uk/dp/B008OS5NKW/?tag=tec053-21
But im not sure if I can trust them, or the seller as they haven't responded, and the feedback looks a bit 'dicey'.

RCoon you've been of really great help. Hopefully you get notified right away if I were to PM you? In case I might be in a quick pinch 

I'll give a proper thought of the systems once I return later in the day - have to rush off.
Many thanks 

PS - Amazon SSD link doesn't seem to work for me.


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## RCoon (Aug 5, 2014)

Moyt said:


> Yikes I'm short for time - other work commitments :d
> Ok I will respond later, sound like a good idea! But more work involved . I will just quickly say that the original system the 'Tech' guy who was going to charge over £1000 for installation was going to provide this spec system... :s
> Shown exactly on the invoice:
> Intel Celeron G1610 - 4GB DDR3 1333Mhz - Intel H61 Motherboard - Novatech CASE & PSU  (@ £149.99 per unit no OS mouse or keyboard etc).
> ...



Replace the "_" with a "." between "co" and "uk".

Also yes I should respond more quickly today.

Those above specs you've shown look like rather old tech, not sure I'd bother with that kind of thing, it's 2 generations out, and arguably not as good value for money.


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## Moyt (Aug 7, 2014)

The headache escalates. 
It’s a Community Centre run by a handful, so making decisions has to be decided by the 'many' which leads ultimately by one person who has the last say. Who in the nicest way possible I can say is one 'clueless numpty' and takes his own decisions anyway regardless of the opinion of others.
Take make matters worse this one person hasn't a clue about computers and their practical and effective uses for the RIGHT setting. 
He is most certainly not fit enough to make decisions in regards to this, hence why my dad tried to bring me in. But even being a bit clueless myself I have confidence I can do this, rather this than them pay some guy £1000+ who'll be running happily to the bank.

So what's happened is this 'boss' of the Centre, saw a set up of 'laptops' in another 'Community Centre' in a different city. And is now boasting that "_If they can have laptops, then so can we!_". Yes this is what I have to deal with now :s
He didn't know what the uses for these laptops were  
Was it for educational/learning use? 
Was it just a temp gathering for gaming/meeting? 
All he saw was probably a bit of 14" portable eye-candy, and thought it would be the bee’s knees to have it at the Centre as well. 
But apparently what he said at the most recent meeting which he considered his strongest argument for having laptops was........"_They can be stored away easily_".......*sighs*

So my father has asked me to construct a list (without calling the head of the place a 'moron') why laptops is a very bad investment, especially for ICT/IT training for beginners.

Nothing against laptops myself - I'm guilty of buying an Alienware m18x back in 2011 (though what a waste of money that was - typing from it right now :d). 
But for this....No.....just NOOOOO to laptops.
This isn't meant to be a PC vs laptop war though this may kind of look like it. This is meant to somehow convey to this ‘head genius’ of the Centre that for practical learning and cost use = laptops aren't a viable option. 

This list needs to be short and simple, because this person doesn't know what a CPU, HDD etc. is. 
Specific values like differences in GHz, rpm etc. won't make sense to this person either. You have to talk in simple terms like 'twice as fast/cheap' etc.


* LIST:*
- Yes laptops can be stored conveniently, but can also be stolen just as easily. It is very unlikely someone will get away with a monitor, PC Unit, keyboard and mouse VS a laptop in a matter of seconds.

- Complete PC workstation VS Laptop. PC's will always be cheaper, faster, easier to use and more reliable;

- For the same price of a complete PC workstation vs a laptop, you will only probably get a 3rd of the performance from a laptop(?????) Someone please correct me on this, not sure what the general say is on these things are.

- Learners and general users want clear visibility without making learning any more difficult. Looking at a smaller sized screen laptop won’t be practical and eye straining to that of a full sized PC screen. We need to make learning as easy as possible, not impractical at the expense of ‘portability’.

- Laptops are more likely to have faults/breakdowns, and more likely the unit as a whole will have to be sent back, rather than fixing one component in a PC and having it up and running again more easily and quickly.

- Once warranty has expired, fixing a laptop WILL be extremely more costly with parts harder to find, to that of a PC.

- The feel and quality of laptop controls don’t sit well with everyone and vary very differently for different brands. They can be very impractical again especially for those trying to learn to use computers.




ANYONE PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ADD TO THIS LIST, but has to be very simple reasons otherwise it will just go over this persons head. 
Not sure also how a network of laptops would compete against a network of PC’s (both wired)??
Also please correct me on anything I’ve said (even horrible grammar used in the list :d). I’d like to make a list for this person as to how wrong he is and have it handed in within a day or so.

Again I apologise to laptop users, this isn't a dig at them. But I feel the head of the Centre is ‘killing’ it for new learners with his ‘vision’ of a room full of laptops.  


*@ RCoon. *
Thanks once again for you input, you’ve been more than helpful! 
Just realised the forum changes the amazon links yikes.
Now I’ve had time to have a better look your suggestion sounds good:

Logitech MK120 Wired Slim Keyboard and Optical Mouse
+
Intel Pentium Dual Core G3240 Zoostorm system
+
Crucial MX100 128GB SSD

Although it would require some work from me which I lightly touched up on before, but I may actually go the extra mile to put those SSD in. 
Which HDD cloning software would you use?
What’s your take on the system having w8.1? Then I should simply purchase ‘Stardock's START 8’ licenses to make the systems more user friendly to as close as W7 as possible. They’re only $4.99 a license anyways.

Could I ask. Would combing a SSD with your recommended Intel Pentium Dual Core G3240 system, perform better than an Intel Core i3-4130 system with a standard HDD say like this:
http://www.ebuyer.com/643321-zoostorm-desktop-pc-7260-8002
I’m just weighing out if it’s worth going through the extra hassle of buying SSD’s, cloning etc, if the performance difference won’t be that different. On the bigger positive side least the SSD won’t fail in the long run VS HDD…yup??? 
These people at the centre wouldn’t appreciate my time and effort put in for free, which puts me off from doing this at the same time  but least my dad will.

I just hope I can convince this one lunatic at the Community Centre not to go for laptops *sighs*
It wouldn’t surprise me if he questioned as far as to why the PC systems don’t have optical DVD drives, and not knowing what USB sticks are at the same time :s
Said it before, but yes... This is the craziness I have to deal with 

Feel free to add to a list of things as to why they shouldn’t go for the room full of laptops route, over PC set ups. Considering the sole purpose of their use. 
Again many thanks 

I just hope I can still hold a good deal with ebuyer after messing them about already saying I would order from them within the day :s. 
First things first, to deal with the top guy at the community centre. If there’s no logic getting through to this person then I give up…
The lengths I go through to help an old man out/dad


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## RCoon (Aug 7, 2014)

Moyt said:


> Could I ask. Would combing a SSD with your recommended Intel Pentium Dual Core G3240 system, perform better than an Intel Core i3-4130 system with a standard HDD say like this:
> http://www.ebuyer.com/643321-zoostorm-desktop-pc-7260-8002
> I’m just weighing out if it’s worth going through the extra hassle of buying SSD’s, cloning etc, if the performance difference won’t be that different. On the bigger positive side least the SSD won’t fail in the long run VS HDD…yup???
> These people at the centre wouldn’t appreciate my time and effort put in for free, which puts me off from doing this at the same time  but least my dad will.



Very much so, yes. The difference in processors will not enable the computers and included software to boot in seconds. With a HDD, the bottleneck is always the HDD, and is usually the main reason everything is slower. With an SSD, any computer feels fast. We put one in an E350 machine (the worst kind of mobile processor), and it turned it into a whole different beast. SSD's are a god send for budget systems, they make them feel a lot snappier. The issue with laptops is they are not upgradable besides the SSD and RAM. A laptop costs in excess of what those PC costs, and are slower, immensely. If a laptop screen/battery/board dies, you're buggered. If a part in a Zoostorm system dies, it can easily be replaced (all this is relevant if anything is out of warranty). Replacement parts for laptops cost too much. Batteries, screens etc are very costly, and are broken far easier than anything inside a PC. Laptop components in general are far slower than desktop components. It's a matter of heat. It's also worth noting *laptops are far easier to steal*.

In schools we also have a governing body (Governors), who have the final group-say on everything. Luckily our IT team 7 years ago was shockingly bad, so now they have reasonable fellas like me and my team, they throw a great deal of money at us and trust our every decision. Needless to say, end users have to have had experience with cheap shit in order to appreciate someone doing the job properly, even if they see "eyecandy". In the event the main governor of the centre decides on laptops, I recommend Lenovos. They are the hardiest of all laptop brands we've tested, and we put SSD's in all of them too.

In my experience heads of schools have a lot of "bright ideas". Sometimes you have to let them fail miserably and deal with innumerable complaints about their poor decision before they learn. It's taken our head 4 years to finally realise we need a new wireless system. He's dealt with terrible 3COM's, now he's happy to hand us £40,000 for a proper sitewide Wireless AC network.

I can always do pricechecks for you, but as far as well rounded budget items, the zoostorm pentiums and the MX100 SSD's are the absolute best value for money I can find. They are sold on both Amazon and Ebuyer, so check between those two to discover who has the best prices. They are constantly locked in a price war. Just be sure to get a Pentium G32xx and 4GB of RAM. The rest doesn't really matter.


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## silkstone (Aug 8, 2014)

Laptops will break much more quickly when you have multiple users on them leading to more RMA headaches, especially if you are going for cheaper laptops.

Also damage that the people do to them might not be covered by warranty.


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## Hellfire (Aug 8, 2014)

Yup, first thing you'll have is the laptop keyboards and screen hinges will go


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## Moyt (Aug 8, 2014)

Thanks for suggestions people. I've passed my notes on to the old man, it's dragged on sooo long now it's unbearable! :d

@RCoon thanks I've used your reply to help extend my list! Very informative!  However IF anything gets through to 'that persons' dense nugget skull is another question lol.
You definitely got some experience points in the field of buying(!!!).
If my part doesn't fall through, I will certainly go through with putting SSD's in those Desktops as you suggested.
Plus it will be something more for me to learn with the whole HDD cloning to SSD and so on, though I don't really have much spare time it has my interest 

I think ebuyer are the ones for me for giving the biggest discounts. I hope I can still hold to that after not getting back to them (due to one person delaying and messing about with decisions at the CC) :s
'Insight' e-mailed me as well with interest in my purchase, but I've not replied back yet just to see how things go first.

Much appreciative of you spending your time here to help me out so thanks again!


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## RCoon (Aug 8, 2014)

Moyt said:


> Thanks for suggestions people. I've passed my notes on to the old man, it's dragged on sooo long now it's unbearable! :d
> 
> @RCoon thanks I've used your reply to help extend my list! Very informative!  However IF anything gets through to 'that persons' dense nugget skull is another question lol.
> You definitely got some experience points in the field of buying(!!!).
> ...



I forgot to tell you, Clonezilla is what I use to copy a HDD install to an SSD unless I'm on a Samsung SSD, in which case Magician. Clonezilla is crazy easy though.


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## Moyt (Aug 8, 2014)

Noted! 

Just to quote from their main page:





> Limitations:
> The destination partition must be equal or larger than the source one.


Will that work from a 500GB HDD to a 128GB SSD? Or am misunderstanding?


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## RCoon (Aug 8, 2014)

Moyt said:


> Noted!
> 
> Just to quote from their main page:
> Will that work from a 500GB HDD to a 128GB SSD? Or am misunderstanding?



As long as the partitions are not fragmented, they will shrink to use up the size they actually are (e.g. windows partition will only take up 40GB of space). Google up about it, it can be a simple process.

Alternatively, you can use MagicJellyBean on each PC to steal it's Win8 license and then burn a Win8 DVD of that specific type and install it on each machine and use the license codes you stole from them.
 I believe Win8 codes are now stored in the computers BIOS though, so if you install the exact version of Win8 on the machine that it had in the first place, it will automatically register the correct license code for you.


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## rtwjunkie (Aug 8, 2014)

Moyt said:


> Noted!
> 
> Just to quote from their main page:
> Will that work from a 500GB HDD to a 128GB SSD? Or am misunderstanding?


 
I've also had great luck cloning using Acronis True Image, as an alternative.  Just make sure to use latest version, 4.0 or later I think.  It also will shrink down partitions to size up to a smaller SSD.


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## RCoon (Aug 8, 2014)

rtwjunkie said:


> I've also had great luck cloning using Acronis True Image, as an alternative.  Just make sure to use latest version, 4.0 or later I think.  It also will shrink down partitions to size up to a smaller SSD.



Forgot about that,  also remarkably good software


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## Moyt (Aug 9, 2014)

Thanks people, will be interesting for me to see how this works if I get the chance.

Let's see if all this doesn't go to waste and get the ball rolling first. I know, I know.....what a drag for just 5 systems


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## Moyt (Oct 18, 2014)

Been really busy with all sorts. I think I should change the title to x10 systems, because that's what was decided in the end on such a tight budget. But managed it somehow.

It's an absolute tip right now, but I'm kinda 'chuffed' at the same time for someone who hasn't got a clue to begin with. Especially when it comes to even basic networking  ...still working on that department 
BTW entire room is surrounded almost with computers - can't see everything.






Want to say thanks to everyone giving tips and advice here. 

Thoughts off the top of my head that were useful to me.
- DNS blocking is very useful - cheers micropage7. In theory it should be a room full of 'beginners', but who knows who might turn up hah. One simple flaw is it doesn't work with Google image search for example. But anyhow at least it's somewhat effective for web searches.

- Acronis True Image software is brilliant - thanks for suggesting this rtwjunkie! 

- Rcoon's system suggestion with a SSD. For budget systems these run pretty darn well with SSD's! Very happy with the performance they're giving, and huge savings made with them already including W8.1. I'm even thinking if one were to build a system from scratch it probably wouldn't be worth the time and effort as those Zoostorm systems are ridiculously cheap. 
I remember just about every competitor couldn't offer anything better, especially as these Zoostorm system already had an OS included.

BT Business fibre broadband installed. Not great for x10 computers but should be good enough for general web browsing; 40Mbps D, 10Mbps U. 
Still more to sort out.


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## RCoon (Oct 18, 2014)

Shout if you need a hand with any kind of networking, that's my actual main job  also worth noting in terms of anti virus, the free ones are just as good as the paid ones. Not a fan of AVG myself but the rest I can happily recommend. 

Also, well done to you sir!


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## Moyt (Oct 21, 2014)

Many thanks Rcoon, much appreciated as always 
So far it seems okay for now, though I've not had much time to test it out properly. 
Only headache so far is activating 'Office 365 Small business' via BT - got a 'deal' with them as the Centre upgraded their broadband and phone. They need a domain name from us and other info before activating office. Hopefully get around to sorting it on my next days off. Have you ever dealt with BT before using there Office 365 package?


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