# The U.S. is still using floppy disks to run its nuclear program



## FordGT90Concept (May 26, 2016)

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/26/us/pentagon-floppy-disks-nuclear/index.html


> That's according to a new report by the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO), which found that the Pentagon was still using 1970s-era computing systems that require "*eight-inch floppy disks*."










> The report says the Pentagon is planning to replace its floppy systems -- which currently coordinate intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs), nuclear bombers and tanker support aircraft -- by the end of 2017.





> Other departments were also put on notice to update their systems. The *U.S. Treasury for example, still depends on assembly language code "initially used in the 1950s*."





> Except in Washington that is. The GAO report says that *U.S. government departments spend upwards of $60 billion a year on operating and maintaining out-of-date technologies*.



Oh, this is funny!
https://defensesystems.com/articles/2014/04/29/af-8-inch-floppies-icbm-launch.aspx


> Maj. Gen. Jack Weinstein, commander of ICBM forces, told Stahl that the old hardware and software, and the lack of an Internet connection, provides solid security for the missile bases.


The dinosaurs are secure! 

Some background:


> The 8-inch floppy was created in 1967 by IBM as a way to provide software updates for its System/370 mainframes. The first “memory disk,” as it was called, held *80 kilobytes of data*. IBM introduced the floppy commercially in 1971, and by 1976 new floppies were double-sided disks that could hold 1-1.2megabytes.



This thread needs theme music:


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## R-T-B (May 26, 2016)

Dinosaurs are secure...  Or at least they were before human scientists starting desecrating their graves...

At any rate, there has to be a cheaper way to make a cost effective offline system...


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## silentbogo (May 26, 2016)

Haven't seen those since my first Informatics class. It was presented to show the contrast between the old tech and modern 3.5" floppies


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## Deeveo (May 26, 2016)

Government and cheap hardly ever go hand in though sadly..  Then again I don't think anyone would have liked to have heard that they had been running Windows 95 on those systems all those years!


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## silentbogo (May 26, 2016)

Found a better one:


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## Ferrum Master (May 26, 2016)

I used a floppy few days ago... had no other options left... out of my three 1.44's only one was still working...

So... in case of a nuclear war...


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## D007 (May 26, 2016)

I'm speechless...


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## 5DVX0130 (May 26, 2016)

Nostalgia is kicking in…. 3… 2… 1…  

Sort of understand why they still use the old tech, but at the same time it makes you wonder to what lengths they had to go to still support the system.

That said I still have Windows 3.1 on 5.25 floppy disks somewhere, but sadly no drive to test if any of the disks still work. Would be pleasantly surprised if they did though.


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## qubit (May 26, 2016)

Someone was very lazy in upgrading the system, lol. Anyway, I'm surprised they're using floppies since hard discs have been around since the 1950s.


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## Frick (May 26, 2016)

Deeveo said:


> Government and cheap hardly ever go hand in though sadly..  Then again I don't think anyone would have liked to have heard that they had been running Windows 95 on those systems all those years!



Aye, this is probably one of the instances where you don't want to skimp.

I'd like to see those systems. Anything running reliably for so long is interesting.


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## Nosada (May 26, 2016)

These are systems that have been tested to hell and back, replacing them might be fairly cheap, re-testing them however...

People mocked the Space Shuttle for running on 386's, but they did their job and no accident ever happened because of a computer error.

Another thing might be the NNPT. Investing in the infrastructure to launch nuclear missiles might be considered a transgression of the agreement.


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## natr0n (May 26, 2016)

They need a floppy drive emulator.


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## droopyRO (May 26, 2016)

Well hacking those things would not be easy, or would it ? hmmm ...


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## RCoon (May 26, 2016)

I hope somebody doesn't copy that floppy.


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## Jetster (May 26, 2016)

And the guy with his finger on the button still uses a blackberry


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## jboydgolfer (May 26, 2016)

All of my highschool compute'ors were of the apple 2 variety, basic programming was fun times....my summer school project was housed on a floppy ...

Line 10 this sux
Line 20 go to line 10


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## ste2425 (May 26, 2016)

RCoon said:


> I hope somebody doesn't copy that floppy.



oh my.


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## Frick (May 26, 2016)

A list of some old ones, from here.


*Individual Master File*, Department of the Treasury—about 56 years old. Written in IBM mainframe assembly language code, this system is "the authoritative data source for individual taxpayer accounts where accounts are updated, taxes are assessed, and refunds are generated during the tax filing period. There are no firm plans to replace it.
*Business Master File*, Department of the Treasury—also about 56 years old, and also written in IBM mainframe assembler code, this is the business income tax equivalent of the Individual Master File. An update is planned, but there's no timeframe set.
*Strategic Automated Command and Control System*, Department of Defense—53 years old. Thankfully, this system—which was highlighted in a _60 Minutes_ report two years ago—will be replaced in fiscal year 2017. SACCS "coordinates the operational functions of the United States’ nuclear forces, such as intercontinental ballistic missiles, nuclear bombers, and tanker support aircrafts," the GAO report notes. And it does that running on IBM Series/1 Computers that boot off 8-inch floppy disks. For the members of Congress who are too young to know what an 8-inch floppy disk is, GAO thankfully provided a photo.
*Personnel and Accounting Integrated Data*, Department of Veterans Affairs—53 years old. Human Resources systems are one of the most common sinkholes for legacy technology. This system is VA's time and attendance system, and it was written in COBOL. VA is planning to replace it with a shared service in 2017, as part of the ongoing consolidation of like systems across the government.
*Computerized Optimization Model For Predicting and Analyzing Support Structure (COMPASS), *Department of Defense—52 years old, but not really. This decision support, command and control system is used across DOD to plan how to move all the stuff required to support military operations in a crisis. The system has had several updates over the years, and in its current PC-based version it runs on Windows 2008 Server, an Oracle 11g database (circa 2009), and its core code is written in Java. DOD "plans to migrate it a 2012 [Microsoft] SQL Server by the end of the year," GAO reported.
*Benefits Delivery Network*, Department of Veterans Affairs—51 years old. This cluster of COBOL mainframe applications is what VA uses to track veterans' benefits, eligibility for access to benefits, and their dates of death, among other things. The VA is planning to roll it into another system someday, but there's no timeframe set.
*Hazardous Materials Information System*, Department of Transportation's Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration—about 46 years old, though in its current incarnation the system runs on Microsoft Classic Active Server Pages, Microsoft.NET, and other legacy Windows code that is no longer supported—"which can cause security risks, among other issues," GAO noted. DOT is planning on replacing the "legacy components" by 2018.
*National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration/ National Weather Service Dissemination Systems*, Department of Commerce—46 years old. These three "information dissemination systems" are what push out severe weather warnings and other alerts to both the public and to emergency management organizations. It runs across a hodgepodge of platforms, including Windows Server 2003, and is partially written in FORTRAN. "The agency has general plans to continuously update system components," GAO noted, but there are no plans for a rewrite in a more modern programming language.
*National Data Buoy Center Ocean Observing System of Systems*, Department of Commerce—46 years old. This is the system that collects weather, sea state, and tsunami warning data from a network of ocean buoys. The back end runs on a patchwork of operating systems, like the NOAA/National Weather Service systems, including Windows Server 2003 (and, surprisingly, Linux). It also uses an Oracle database that is no longer supported, and "a variety of programming languages, including FORTRAN." Incremental updates to hardware and component software are planned, but with no firm dates.
*Hiring Tracking Systems*, Department of Homeland Security Immigration and Customs Enforcement—39 years old, with some updates. This HR system runs on a relatively recent 2008 IBM z10 mainframe and is written in COBOL. It has a Web front end that runs on Windows Server 2012, based on Java. DHS plans on replacing the mainframe with a service-oriented architecture starting this year—if it gets the funding.


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## cornemuse (May 27, 2016)

(Watch for a few seconds, , , ,)


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