# Need low profile low power gpu



## JunkBear (Oct 28, 2015)

Just got a Lenovo Thinkcentre M73 i5 3gigs with 4gigs ddr3 and 500gigs WD blue 16m cache. Would like to put the gpu inside so i make it a small gaming computer. What would you suggest as title specs says?


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## Toothless (Oct 28, 2015)

The strongest low profile GPU you can get because honestly any low profile will barely run 720p.


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## CrackerJack (Oct 28, 2015)

Pretty sure, not possible for that machine


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## JunkBear (Oct 28, 2015)

I dont plan playing more than original BF2 multiplayer, Path of Exile and World of tanks.


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## Mussels (Oct 28, 2015)

JunkBear said:


> I dont plan playing more than original BF2 multiplayer, Path of Exile and World of tanks.



first two not a problem, world of tanks can be pretty demanding.

why not see what low profile options you can find where you shop, and get advice on the ones you find?


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## ne6togadno (Oct 28, 2015)

Mussels said:


> first two not a problem, world of tanks can be *is* pretty demanding.
> 
> why not see what low profile options you can find where you shop, and get advice on the ones you find?


fixed that for you

@JunkBear i think this is the best you will be able to get


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## BiggieShady (Oct 28, 2015)

Power on PCIEx16 slot may be limited to 25W-30W max on this system, so GPU upgrades are extremely limited (and not worth it because all are very much in the range of the integrated GPU): http://psref.lenovo.com/PSREFUploadFile\Sys/PDF/ThinkCentre/ThinkCentre M73 Tower/M73 Tower.pdf


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## Mussels (Oct 28, 2015)

that document seems to imply that a geforce 620 is about the best you can get.

humorously i actually have a 7750 and a geforce 620 here, but none of those games to test how they handle them (and WoT is too big a download for such a quick test)


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## silentbogo (Oct 28, 2015)

I was recently trying to find something similar for my HTPC.
That's a hard quest - there are not that many low-profile cards on the market.
At the time I couldn't get past R7 240 or GT730, but today is your lucky day.

Both MSI and GIGABYTE now offer a low-profile versions of GTX 750Ti:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125680
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127836

I have a regular full-size dual-slot version of GTX750Ti in my current desktop and I do most of my gaming in 1080p. 

Considering my previous posts in various threads, and how much positive stuff I told about this VGA already, people might've started thinking that I am a spokesperson for NVidia. 
But I just can't help it - this little card kicks ass.


Additionally you should check the PSU inside that Lenovo - according to spec it has a 240W PSU, which is barely enough to run a GTX750Ti (NVidia actually recommends a 300W, but I successfully tested mine with 250W PSU)

If you want stable and reliable PC, you should also look for a 350-370W TFX PSU. 6-pin PCI-E connector not required.


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## BiggieShady (Oct 28, 2015)

silentbogo said:


> 6-pin PCI-E connector not required.


2 issues ... those are not cards with brackets for SFF case and that PC has a propriatery motherboard not capable pushing 75W on PCIEx16 (25-30W max) ...  6 pin is not required but only if there is 75 watts on pcie


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## silentbogo (Oct 28, 2015)

BiggieShady said:


> 2 issues ... those are not cards with brackets for SFF case and that PC has a propriatery motherboard not capable pushing 75W on PCIEx16 (25-30W max) ...  6 pin is not required but only if there is 75 watts on pcie


Gigabyte does, MSI does not, but you can easily find an aftermarket bracket on eBay:




http://www.ebay.com/itm/Low-Profile...106148?hash=item3d03768d64:g:bH8AAOSw3ydV4GnA

$2 is an okay price for a bit of aesthetic improvement.

75W is a max TDP for such *type* of card (which includes a 6-pin PCI-E powered versions). Most OC versions, like my MSI Gaming are capped at 70W, while non-OCed cards don't go over 65W.
While some proprietary boards do not allow such power on a PCI-E port, this PC definitely does not impose those limits. Would they offer a 60W Radeon HD 8570, if it didn't?


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## Tuna Yücer (Oct 28, 2015)

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/desktops/thinkcentre/m-series-tiny/m73/
Are we talking about this? This pc is too small for discrete gpus. Even for low profile ones.


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## silentbogo (Oct 28, 2015)

Tuna Yücer said:


> http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/desktops/thinkcentre/m-series-tiny/m73/
> Are we talking about this? This pc is too small for discrete gpus. Even for low profile ones.


I believe it's this (an SFF M73 version):
http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/desktops/thinkcentre/m-series-sff/m73-sff/#tab-tech_specs


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## BiggieShady (Oct 28, 2015)

silentbogo said:


> Would they offer a 60W Radeon HD 8570, if it didn't?


Indeed, I see that offer on their web now ... either way, I agree getting a low profile 750ti would be best option if a board supports full pcie spec, but that's a big if ... it's not uncommon for OEMs to cheap out in these areas


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## lZKoce (Oct 28, 2015)

What is your budget? IMO low profile GPU with DDR3 is pointless. My suggestions: 1.) second hand GT640 DDR5 ; 2.) Brand new GT 730 DDR5 or GT740 DDR5 . If you really have the cash low profile GTX750 / 750 Ti -> Gigabyte/ Zotac and KFA2 make those.


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## silentbogo (Oct 28, 2015)

The most worrisome part is a PSU. 
I've tested a 250W PSU from the similar ACER slim desktop, but the entire rig was less power-hungry: Pentium G3250, 2x2GB DDR3, 2.5" HDD, no ODD, GTX750Ti Gaming.
With Core i5 in the picture it might not be enough (84W vs 53W TDP).


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## JunkBear (Oct 31, 2015)

YUP you are right. 240W psu with a 84W cpu. Doesnt leave much space for gpu.


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## RealNeil (Nov 1, 2015)

NVIDIA GeForce GT 730 4GB

The 4GB of memory will help out quite a bit.


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## GoldenX (Nov 1, 2015)

Isn't a lp R7-250 GDDR5 a better option? Is in the range of 45w.


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## JunkBear (Nov 10, 2015)

Still looking but I dont need super performance since most of time i play in 1024 x 768. strange that resolutiom fit better on my 1080p 32" tv than 1080p itself. At the limit it will be 720p depending of the game.


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## silentbogo (Nov 10, 2015)

At that resolution you'll get by with a GT730. Just look for DDR5 version, because they are a bit faster and more efficient than GDDR3 version. Only 25W max TDP =)
eBay prices are kinda rough, but where I'm from they usually go for no more than $45-50. You can buy a new one on Newegg for $60.
Anything older or lower than that is not worth it. And avoid Zotac like a plague!

With GTX 750 Ti you can play almost anything at native 1080p, but it costs twice as much and most likely will require a 300W TFX power supply.


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## Mussels (Nov 10, 2015)

JunkBear said:


> Still looking but I dont need super performance since most of time i play in 1024 x 768. strange that resolutiom fit better on my 1080p 32" tv than 1080p itself. At the limit it will be 720p depending of the game.



you most likely dont have a 1080p hdtv. lots of older/cheaper ones were 1024x768 (certain plasmas) or 1366x768 (varies LCD). They may support 1080 inputs, but thats different to the panel resolution.


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## JunkBear (Nov 10, 2015)

Mussels said:


> you most likely dont have a 1080p hdtv. lots of older/cheaper ones were 1024x768 (certain plasmas) or 1366x768 (varies LCD). They may support 1080 inputs, but thats different to the panel resolution.




Its a LED tv.


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## thebluebumblebee (Nov 10, 2015)

BiggieShady said:


> Power on PCIEx16 slot may be limited to 25W-30W max on this system


I don't claim to know it all, but this is the first that I've heard of this.  The specification for a PCI-e X16 is that it is to supply up to 75 watts.  BTW, the GT 620 is a 49 watt GPU according to Nvidia.


Mussels said:


> that document seems to imply that a geforce 620 is about the best you can get.


Just because that's the best GPU they ship it with does not determine what it will support.


BiggieShady said:


> those are not cards with brackets for SFF case





silentbogo said:


> Gigabyte does, MSI does not


Actually, a reviewer @ newegg mentioned that it does for the MSI.  I can't fathom MSI shipping a card that is meant for LP, has LP in the P/N, and not including a LP bracket.


silentbogo said:


> With Core i5 in the picture it might not be enough (84W vs 53W TDP)





JunkBear said:


> YUP you are right. 240W psu with a 84W cpu. Doesnt leave much space for gpu.


240W-84W=156 watts  Do you really think that 156 watts isn't enough to run a 75 watt (MAX) GPU and all of the rest of the computer?  And that's assuming a 100% load on the CPU and GPU at the same time.  Now the OP should stay away from running MAX CPU benchmark AND MAX GPU benchmark - at the same time.


RealNeil said:


> The 4GB of memory will help out quite a bit.


No, it won't.

Those LP GTX 750 Ti's are the way to go, as long as there's no shady low powered PCIEX16 that @BiggieShady alluded to.


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## GoldenX (Nov 10, 2015)

Those are custom-made motherboards, it wouldn't be strange to have a crippled port.


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## silentbogo (Nov 10, 2015)

Port is not crippled and not a single sane manufacturer will intentionally limit the current in complete disregard to specification



thebluebumblebee said:


> 240W-84W=156 watts Do you really think that 156 watts isn't enough to run a 75 watt (MAX) GPU and all of the rest of the computer? And that's assuming a 100% load on the CPU and GPU at the same time. Now the OP should stay away from running MAX CPU benchmark AND MAX GPU benchmark - at the same time.


Don't forget that it is a pre-made aftermarket low-budget PC. 
PSU is definitely not 80+ certified, so even if we give it an optimistic 75% efficiency before it starts losing its mind, we will get a safe margin of 180W.

85W is used by CPU at 100% load assuming that it is not overclocked. Then you have devices like motherboard, RAM, HDD, ODD etc, which use not so much individually, but add up to a significant number.
His entire system without CPU uses approximately 130W at full load, so with GTX750Ti this number jumps a bit over the safe limit. He might experience occasional voltage fluctuations, maybe some random shutdowns, but nothing serious.

If @JunkBear  at some point decides to add an SSD and another stick of RAM - that's another 5W. Even an 80+ certified PSU starts to wobble at that point.

So there are a few ways to fix this:
1) Downgrade the CPU to something 65W or lower (e.g. Pentium G3258 )
2) Downclock the existing CPU to the point where it acts like Pentium G3258
3) Tear out the ODD and do not use any USB devices. Forget about overclocking and  if you are still desperate for power - take out all fans and just blow really hard to cool off the CPU.
4) Just buy a 25W GT730, or wait for low-budget variations of R5/7 3xx or GT9xx if there will be any.


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## thebluebumblebee (Nov 10, 2015)

GoldenX said:


> Those are custom-made motherboards, it wouldn't be strange to have a crippled port.


Am I wrong to think that if that's the case, then they'd better put a label on there warning me of that?!


silentbogo said:


> PSU is definitely not 80+ certified, so even if we give it an optimistic 75% efficiency before it starts losing its mind, we will get a safe margin of 180W.


You have efficiency all wrong.  A 75% efficient 500 watt PSU supplies the same amount of watts to a PC as does a 90% efficient 500 watt PSU.  The 500 watts is what the PSU is rated at supplying to the PC, not what it pulls from the wall.  That 75% efficient 500 watt PSU at 100% load will pull (x-.25x=500) ~667 watts from the wall.  The 90% unit (x-.1x=500), ~556 watts. Unfortunately, this invalidates the rest of your argument.


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## JunkBear (Nov 11, 2015)

Low budget computer? Its a 749$ Business desktop. So I guess the psu got higher quality standards.


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## Mussels (Nov 11, 2015)

thebluebumblebee said:


> Am I wrong to think that if that's the case, then they'd better put a label on there warning me of that?!
> 
> You have efficiency all wrong.  A 75% efficient 500 watt PSU supplies the same amount of watts to a PC as does a 90% efficient 500 watt PSU.  The 500 watts is what the PSU is rated at supplying to the PC, not what it pulls from the wall.  That 75% efficient 500 watt PSU at 100% load will pull (x-.25x=500) ~667 watts from the wall.  The 90% unit (x-.1x=500), ~556 watts. Unfortunately, this invalidates the rest of your argument.



a lot of people get that wrong, it seems.

If you had a 100W PSU and 80% efficiency, it could supply 100W (if the manuf was honest) but would draw 125W* at the wall to do so. scale it up for bigger PSU's, see the idea. I've shaved 50-100W off systems going from generic shit to 80+ units.


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## xela333 (Nov 11, 2015)

JunkBear said:


> Its a LED tv.



It's still an LCD tv, just with an led backlight. Plus that doesn't mean it's 1080p. If that's the resolution best fitting, it's only a HD ready, 720p tv, not 1080p. Hope you didn't buy that recently.


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## xela333 (Nov 11, 2015)

JunkBear said:


> Low budget computer? Its a 749$ Business desktop. So I guess the psu got higher quality standards.



That seems a little pricey for the spec you got. But it's still going to be using a fairly low budget psu as the parts Lenovo have used do not require anything particularly powerful. As everyone has said, a low profile 750ti is going to be your best bet.


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## silentbogo (Nov 11, 2015)

Mussels said:


> a lot of people get that wrong, it seems.
> 
> If you had a 100W PSU and 80% efficiency, it could supply 100W (if the manuf was honest) but would draw 120W at the wall to do so. scale it up for bigger PSU's, see the idea. I've shaved 50-100W off systems going from generic shit to 80+ units.


At least I've learned something new. Always thought it backwards until yesterday, when I read the article explaining the 80+ cert and PSU efficiency.

Which means that even GTX750 will be fine.



JunkBear said:


> Low budget computer? Its a 749$ Business desktop. So I guess the psu got higher quality standards.


Don't let the prices fool you. You are basically paying for a fancy box with $400 worth of parts. 

For $600 you can build a PC identical to their M73 flagman with Core i7-4770, 16GB of decent DDR3 (2x8GB), average mini-ITX motherboard with miniPCI-E WiFi adapter, and put it all into a spacious CM Elite 130 with a full-sized 80+ Bronze certified 300W ATX power supply. The difference of $149 can be spent on OS of your choice, that GTX 750 Ti or vodka and hookers!


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## thebluebumblebee (Nov 11, 2015)

Mussels said:


> If you had a 100W PSU and 80% efficiency, it could supply 100W (if the manuf was honest) but would draw 120W at the wall to do so.


You're making the same math mistake that I used to make. (the answer is 125W, not 120W)

@JunkBear is in Canada so his prices are higher.

@silentbogo , (concerning this computer) you need to look at a computer the way a business does.  In your example given above, you forgot the costs of the IT person to build the computer and to supply future warranty support.  After you take the cost of the OS out of that $149, you'll find that building it yourself costs more than buying it pre-made, assembled, and tested.  Computers are appliances to businesses


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## Mussels (Nov 12, 2015)

thebluebumblebee said:


> You're making the same math mistake that I used to make. (the answer is 125W, not 120W)
> 
> @JunkBear is in Canada so his prices are higher.
> 
> @silentbogo , (concerning this computer) you need to look at a computer the way a business does.  In your example given above, you forgot the costs of the IT person to build the computer and to supply future warranty support.  After you take the cost of the OS out of that $149, you'll find that building it yourself costs more than buying it pre-made, assembled, and tested.  Computers are appliances to businesses



lol yes, i did make that math mistake. good  catch.


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## JunkBear (Nov 13, 2015)

Ok thank you all for advices. So ill upgrade and play some newer games.


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## Atomic77 (Nov 13, 2015)

Power supply is very important most people will have to upgrade in order to have a better video card. I had a computer die once do to a video card upgrade with out changing the default  PSU.


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