# Help needed with upgrading PC desktop from 2012



## JediMindTricks (Feb 26, 2019)

Here are specs:

CPU: i5-3570k at stock. I will install a custom cooler and overclock. All this time it had the intel stock cooler lol 
GPU: gtx 680 lightning (replacing it)
OS SSD: Plextor 128gb 
HDD: Samsung Spinpoint 1tb (this is starting to crap out, will replace it with new SSD) 
RAM: Munchkin 2 times 4gb dual channel ddr3 1333mhz (will replace it) 
Power supply: Seasonic x760 gold 
Case: Cooler Master Trooper 
1920*1080 resolution, 120hz monitor

Here are the new upgrades I plan on getting https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/pkZzcY.

I plan on playing games like Halo Wars 2, Gears 4, Gears 5, Forza, Skyrim with enb and tons of mods.

My questions:

Will my cpu bottleneck the new gpu? I plan on putting all in game settings to max and won't be using v-sync unless I get over 120fps
Should I buy ram faster than 1600?
The custom cpu cooler is a big one, it might obstruct the PCI 3.0 x16 lane. If I use PCI 3.0 x8, will that be enough bandwidth for the rtx 2060?
Suggestions?
I plan on keeping the PC another 5 years after these upgrades, at which point I'll do a completely new one.

Thank you for your help.


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## Fangio1951 (Feb 27, 2019)

hi,

What mobo are you using ??


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## Vulcansheart (Feb 27, 2019)

JediMindTricks said:


> Will my cpu bottleneck the new gpu? I plan on putting all in game settings to max and won't be using v-sync unless I get over 120fps
> Should I buy ram faster than 1600?
> The custom cpu cooler is a big one, it might obstruct the PCI 3.0 x16 lane. If I use PCI 3.0 x8, will that be enough bandwidth for the rtx 2060?
> Suggestions?
> ...



If these are your specs for a 5-year plan, I would bump up the RAM specs. What's the max spec your board will support? Go with that. You can trim some cost from the custom cooler setup and get a packaged 240mm AiO system. That way you don't risk blocking your PCIeX16 lane.


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## JediMindTricks (Feb 27, 2019)

Fangio1951 said:


> hi,
> 
> What mobo are you using ??



Asus Maximus V Formula



Vulcansheart said:


> If these are your specs for a 5-year plan, I would bump up the RAM specs. What's the max spec your board will support? Go with that. You can trim some cost from the custom cooler setup and get a packaged 240mm AiO system. That way you don't risk blocking your PCIeX16 lane.



I bought the* Phanteks - PH-TC14PE_RD *when I first bought the pc in 2012, but did not install it because it was too complicated for me. I'd rather not spend money on another cooler.


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## Vulcansheart (Feb 27, 2019)

Okay, I didn't realize you already had the cooler. Are you 100% sure it will block your PCIe slot? Either way, I would still push for the highest spec RAM your wallet will allow. Your CPU and memory will likely be your bottlenecks after you upgrade the GPU (more so on late AAA game titles)


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## JediMindTricks (Feb 27, 2019)

Vulcansheart said:


> Okay, I didn't realize you already had the cooler. Are you 100% sure it will block your PCIe slot? Either way, I would still push for the highest spec RAM your wallet will allow. Your CPU and memory will likely be your bottlenecks after you upgrade the GPU (more so on late AAA game titles)



I'm not sure, but that thing is huge, like the Noctua Dh-14/15 type of huge, plus the GPU is a monster as well. That is why I am asking, in case they do not fit, would PCI 3.0 x8 be a bottleneck for the GPU?

As for the ram, Intel recommends a 1600mhz max on the ram, anymore and there might be instabilities. Also this is DDR3 ram, I'm not sure if higher speeds would make that big of a diff. I refuse to pay extra money for another 1-2% performance. Maximum ram speed, as per mobo manufacturer, would be 2800mhz ddr3 ram.


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## Vulcansheart (Feb 27, 2019)

I'm not sure of the bottleneck question on the x8 lane. Not my strongest area of expertise. I know there was a somewhat recent article (mid/late last year?) that battled several GTX10 series cards across various PCIe configurations (SLI etc) that could answer the question. I am just not sure how close modern GPUs are getting to saturating the bandwidth yet.

EDIT
From the little bit of google-fu I just practiced, it seems the consensus of gamers say that modern GPUs still don't even saturate x8 on PCIe3.0 yet. So, you should be safe...


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## Durvelle27 (Feb 27, 2019)

If it were me I’d go

CPU: Step upto a i7-3770K as newer games will benefit from the threads 

Storage: Spend less and get  500-512GB SSD plus 2TB HDD

GPU: Step upto a RTX 2070 for better longevity


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## Caring1 (Feb 27, 2019)

Your CPU will easily overclock to 4GHz - 4.5GHz.
The increase in speed will be noticeable in games, also RAM around the 2133MHz range is fine if you can find it cheap, otherwise 1600MHz will do.
Airflow is fairly critical when overclocking and using the system for prolonged periods of gaming, make sure you use decent fans in the correct orientation to dissipate heat efficiently.


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## JediMindTricks (Feb 27, 2019)

Vulcansheart said:


> I'm not sure of the bottleneck question on the x8 lane. Not my strongest area of expertise. I know there was a somewhat recent article (mid/late last year?) that battled several GTX10 series cards across various PCIe configurations (SLI etc) that could answer the question. I am just not sure how close modern GPUs are getting to saturating the bandwidth yet.
> 
> EDIT
> From the little bit of google-fu I just practiced, it seems the consensus of gamers say that modern GPUs still don't even saturate x8 on PCIe3.0 yet. So, you should be safe...



I found a more recent video, and a Titan V that is also overclocked showed the following results:

Game used was Ashes of Singularity, dx12 on, max settings, 4k

x16 lane, avg fps of 37.6
                 1% low of 23.8
                  0.1% low of 23.5

x8 lane, avg fps of 37.6
                 1% low of 22.6
                  0.1% low of 21.6

I think that my gpu at 1920 by 1080 resolution will be just fine.



Caring1 said:


> Your CPU will easily overclock to 4GHz - 4.5GHz.
> The increase in speed will be noticeable in games, also RAM around the 2133MHz range is fine if you can find it cheap, otherwise 1600MHz will do.
> Airflow is fairly critical when overclocking and using the system for prolonged periods of gaming, make sure you use decent fans in the correct orientation to dissipate heat efficiently.



Amazingly, ddr3 is almost non existent, but I did manage to find these https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/jx7wrH/gskill-memory-f32400c11d16gxm, although I don't think they'll clear the cooler


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## Caring1 (Feb 27, 2019)

Read this review on your cooler, it can be installed in two ways.
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Phanteks/PH-TC14PE/


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## Vayra86 (Feb 27, 2019)

From experience, your CPU will bottleneck an RTX 2060 significantly. I made an upgrade from a very similar setup as this because it was simply not pleasant to play on. The 16GB RAM will make a minor difference, but it won't fix the lack of threads (4) and IPC / clocks to push high refresh.

Here is a set of benches I ran for Total War;'Warhammer 2. 3570k @ 4.2 Ghz versus my current CPU... With a GTX 1080 which is only a tiny bit faster than the 2060. I also play @ 1080p/120hz.

As you can see, a major bit of potential goes to waste with that GPU / CPU combo. A bit more RAM won't change it  I would strongly suggest upgrading to a DDR4 based rig before you spend on GPU. High refresh rate gaming has steep requirements. In the first bench you also notice two major frame drops to 12 FPS - that's what a lack of threads will play like in 2019. Going with that for another 5 years simply isn't happening...

Another interesting bit is RAM usage: first rig had 8GB, new rig has 16GB, but as you can see RAM and pagefile use is identical and easily within 8GB. Of course, exceptions exist, but 8GB will be fine 'for now' until you upgrade to a DDR4 rig. Some food for thought


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## JediMindTricks (Feb 27, 2019)

Vayra86 said:


> From experience, your CPU will bottleneck an RTX 2060 significantly. I made an upgrade from a very similar setup as this because it was simply not pleasant to play on. The 16GB RAM will make a minor difference, but it won't fix the lack of threads (4) and IPC / clocks to push high refresh.
> 
> Here is a set of benches I ran for Total War;'Warhammer 2. 3570k @ 4.2 Ghz versus my current CPU... With a GTX 1080 which is only a tiny bit faster than the 2060. I also play @ 1080p/120hz.
> 
> ...



I don't have the money for a new rig, it would cost me 3000 CAD for something decent. If you think my cpu, even when overclocked, will hold the gpu back that much, I could buy a slower GPU, like rx 570 8gb?


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## Countryside (Feb 27, 2019)

AMD cards are cheaper than candy at the moment i checked newegg lowest price for 580 8gb is 170usd


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## Vayra86 (Feb 27, 2019)

JediMindTricks said:


> I don't have the money for a new rig, it would cost me 3000 CAD for something decent. If you think my cpu, even when overclocked, will hold the gpu back that much, I could buy a slower GPU, like rx 570 8gb?



If budgets are tight, don't cheap out on parts, its not going to 'be cheaper' in the long run. The RTX 2060 is a very good value product and its performance is high enough to keep you going for years. So no I would not dial it back. The 570 is not bad, don't get me wrong. But its a card you will want to upgrade sooner rather than later for 120 fps/hz. So the scenario thén, is that you upgrade GPU now, and probably again after you upgrade the CPU/rest, because it won't give you the magical 100-120 fps gameplay you seek. The 2060 is however a perfect match for that, in terms of horsepower. I can perfectly run ultra / 100-120 fps in all but the heaviest games. With some tweaks/dialing down, literally everywhere. That does put the GPU on max usage though.

Rather: save yourself as much money as possible on this rig. That could mean going for 8GB instead of 16GB, and it could mean planning out a DDR4 based build right now to see how long you'd need to buy one. The SSD on the other hand is a sensible upgrade, it will pay off on any system and you can bring it to an upgraded build, just like the GPU, PSU and other storage.

Also, I mostly posted to give you insight on what to expect, and of what you can still improve. No need to do it all at once  Just make sure those dollars count, as in, provide maximum perf/dollar. And investing them in an old DDR3 build is certainly not the way to do that.

Have you considered the return you get from selling the 3570k+board+RAM? Should net you at least 150 bucks, thats a new board or RAM right there.

Last but not least: of course there ARE games that will run fine on the 3570k. Lighter games on the CPU, like shooters for example.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 27, 2019)

Countryside said:


> AMD cards are cheaper than candy at the moment i checked newegg lowest price for 580 8gb is 170usd



Ebay too


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## dirtyferret (Feb 27, 2019)

JediMindTricks said:


> Here are specs:
> 
> CPU: i5-3570k at stock. I will install a custom cooler and overclock. All this time it had the intel stock cooler lol
> GPU: gtx 680 lightning (replacing it)
> ...



none of those games are demanding and your OC CPU (once OC) will handle them no problem.  I would not invest in any DDR3 RAM as it's outdated and you won't see any major improvements from it in your current situation.   The SSD is a no brainer but something like the AMD 580 is half the cost of the RTX 2060 and would give you similar real world performance in terms of graphics quality for those games (unless you must be playing at 120 FPS).  If you don't plan on complete upgrades for another 5 years then the RTX 2060 will be outdated and in need of an update regardless in that time frame.


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## JediMindTricks (Feb 27, 2019)

Vayra86 said:


> If budgets are tight, don't cheap out on parts, its not going to 'be cheaper' in the long run. The RTX 2060 is a very good value product and its performance is high enough to keep you going for years. So no I would not dial it back. The 570 is not bad, don't get me wrong. But its a card you will want to upgrade sooner rather than later for 120 fps/hz. So the scenario thén, is that you upgrade GPU now, and probably again after you upgrade the CPU/rest, because it won't give you the magical 100-120 fps gameplay you seek. The 2060 is however a perfect match for that, in terms of horsepower. I can perfectly run ultra / 100-120 fps in all but the heaviest games. With some tweaks/dialing down, literally everywhere. That does put the GPU on max usage though.
> 
> Rather: save yourself as much money as possible on this rig. That could mean going for 8GB instead of 16GB, and it could mean planning out a DDR4 based build right now to see how long you'd need to buy one. The SSD on the other hand is a sensible upgrade, it will pay off on any system and you can bring it to an upgraded build, just like the GPU, PSU and other storage.
> 
> ...



Where would I sell these parts and who would want to buy this ancient stuff anyway . I suppose I can wait for Zen 2 this summer and upgrade to that, and I would only need the CPU, mobo, ram and a new cooler.

I guess I won't upgrade the ram, and only get the gpu and ssd, and overclock the cpu.


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## Vayra86 (Feb 27, 2019)

JediMindTricks said:


> Where would I sell these parts and who would want to buy this ancient stuff anyway . I suppose I can wait for Zen 2 this summer and upgrade to that, and I would only need the CPU, mobo, ram and a new cooler.
> 
> I guess I won't upgrade the ram, and only get the gpu and ssd, and overclock the cpu.



Good choices IMO including the Zen 2 idea. Where you would sell it? I could only tell you for my own country. But a local tech forum is a good start - or here on TPU!. Also don't underestimate the value of your cpu combo. It was pretty high end back then and it is still a very capable CPU. Mine is now in service as an HTPC... runs everything super fast and I can serve/decode a stream for a home server on it at the same time.


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## rtwjunkie (Feb 27, 2019)

JediMindTricks said:


> I don't have the money for a new rig, it would cost me 3000 CAD for something decent. If you think my cpu, even when overclocked, will hold the gpu back that much, I could buy a slower GPU, like rx 570 8gb?


If you are bound to that platform, then I might suggest in the alternative finding an i7-3770k to replace the 3570k.  It can overclock over 4GHz easily and have all 8 threads available.  It will be less of a GPU restricting CPU.

A quick check of eBay worldwide sold (buy it now) 3770k shows they have sold recently between $160 and $185 (U.S. Dollars).


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## Countryside (Feb 27, 2019)

Decent b450mobo 80-95 usd
cpu  2600 170usd
8gb ddr4 45 usd
rx580 170usd

Total 600cad


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## JediMindTricks (Feb 27, 2019)

It is my understanding that if you put all video settings at max, the gpu is used more and more, thus reducing any bottlenecks. For games that support it, I could even use the scaling setting, where it renders the game at 2k or 4k, and then downsamples to my resolution, which looks a lot better than native full hd, but not as good as native 2k or 4k. Also, if I lock the monitor at 60hz, then than should eliminate any cpu bottleneck I might have, considering I don't plan on playing any cpu intensive games like Battlefield, battle royale games etc.

Alright, that's it then. I have decided on keeping the rtx 2060 (or wait and see if navi is any better) and ssd, and will wait on zen 2. A nice 3600 or 3600x, with 16gb ddr4 (especially since prices are set to fall a further 30% in Q2) plus a mobo and cpu cooler. I see no reason to upgrade the psu or case.


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## Countryside (Feb 27, 2019)

rtwjunkie said:


> If you are bound to that platform, then I might suggest in the alternative finding an i7-3770k to replace the 3570k.  It can overclock over 4GHz easily and have all 8 threads available.  It will be less of a GPU restricting CPU.
> 
> A quick check of eBay worldwide sold (buy it now) 3770k shows they have sold recently between $160 and $185 (U.S. Dollars).



Risky thing buying a used k-chip never know how much it's been tortured but yeah moving to i7 will give a nice performance pump but personally i wouldn't pay more than 100 for it.



eidairaman1 said:


> Ebay too



I'm a simple man with one rule never buy a used AMD card .


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## JediMindTricks (Mar 3, 2019)

I changed my mind.

https://www.gpucheck.com/en-usd/com...ghz/ultra-vs-ultra-vs-ultra-vs-ultra-vs-ultra 

I will dial it down to a 1660 ti based on these comparisons. The less than 10 extra fps is not worth the 130$ extra in my book. Overclocking the cpu will give me more fps and it will bottleneck the gpu less, maybe around 10-15% based on the above results instead of 20%. This is only a stop gap upgrade anyway, until I get the $ for a completely new build (including upgrading the resolution to 2560 by 1440 at least). Maybe around 2021-2022, 5nm, intel/nvidia/amd for gpu and amd/intel for cpu, much better competition across the board.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 3, 2019)

Countryside said:


> AMD cards are cheaper than candy at the moment i checked newegg lowest price for 580 8gb is 170usd





eidairaman1 said:


> Ebay too





Countryside said:


> I'm a simple man with one rule never buy a used AMD card .


Seriously, don't limit yourself like that. As long as you buy from sellers with good ratings, you're very unlikely to have problems. I buy used all the time for my budget minded clients and rarely do we have problems.



JediMindTricks said:


> I will dial it down to a 1660 ti based on these comparisons.


Give a moment's consideration here;
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gigabyte-G...o-Graphics-Card-GV-N1080TTOC-8GD/202613344293
There's also this one;
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-GeForce-GTX-1080-8GB-Turbo-Graphics-Card-TURBO-GTX1080-8G/192844647072
Both are for $330 shipped. Yes they're used, but from a reputable seller and are covered by Ebay's guaranty. You will be much happier with one of those. The 1080 kicks the 1660ti in the jewels.


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## Countryside (Mar 3, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Seriously, don't limit yourself like that. As long as you buy from sellers with good ratings, you're very unlikely to have problems. I buy used all the time for my budget minded clients and rarely do we have problems.
> 
> 
> Give a moment's consideration here;
> ...



I woudnt call it a limitation just a saftey net, the used market is filled with tortured parts, also i have bought used parts for pc build but i try to limit myself to specific parts.
And the prices for unused parts are quite reasonable so i can get good deals at local shops.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 3, 2019)

Countryside said:


> I woudnt call it a limitation just a saftey net, the used market is filled with tortured parts, also i have bought used parts for pc build but i try to limit myself to specific parts.
> And the prices for unused parts are quite reasonable so i can get good deals at local shops.


I do beg your pardon. Missed that you're in Europe. Things are different there.


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## JediMindTricks (Mar 3, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Seriously, don't limit yourself like that. As long as you buy from sellers with good ratings, you're very unlikely to have problems. I buy used all the time for my budget minded clients and rarely do we have problems.
> 
> 
> Give a moment's consideration here;
> ...



This makes no sense https://www.gpucheck.com/en-usd/com...hz-vs-intel-core-i5-3570k-3-40ghz/ultra/ultra

I know the 1080 wipes the floor with 1660ti, and somehow a more powerful card is bottlenecked even less? Help me understand.


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## MrGenius (Mar 4, 2019)

JediMindTricks said:


> ...and somehow a more powerful card is bottlenecked even less? Help me understand.


Quit using the term "bottlenecked". Problem solved. A better GPU will always perform better. Regardless of the CPU. At least...that's how it works in the real world.


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## rtwjunkie (Mar 4, 2019)

JediMindTricks said:


> This makes no sense https://www.gpucheck.com/en-usd/com...hz-vs-intel-core-i5-3570k-3-40ghz/ultra/ultra
> 
> I know the 1080 wipes the floor with 1660ti, and somehow a more powerful card is bottlenecked even less? Help me understand.


More powerful GPU is your answer.  Like MrGenius said, remove bottleneck mindset.  Now, would a more powerful CPU help it mop the floor even better? Yes.  But it is able to make up some of the shortcomings of less powerful cpu’s BECAUSE it is powerful.


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## steen (Mar 4, 2019)

I almost bought the exact components as the OP back in 2012 & have been in a holding pattern for a while. Instead of MVF, GTX680, D14/TC14, I stepped down to P8Z77-V & got 3770, 16GB 1866, 7950 & reused existing U9 with 115x kits. My M5S Plextor SSDs still perform fine. The GPU to get ATM is RTX2060 esp given 1080p. 2070 is too little performance gain & 2080 costs more & deserves more CPU performance. 1660ti is OK & will work fine. If you want to outlay less, get RX570/580 or wait for 1660/1650. If buying used, 1070/80/ti are still good performers. Vega at the right price might be interesting to tinker with, too. Used IVB is a lottery depending on prior (mis)use. If slicon hasn't degraded, it's easy to delid for IHS repaste.

You should be able to overclock the 3570k to 4.5GHz with TC14 easily. I've run mild OC 4.3GHz (4.1GHz all core) with undervolt/offset since built. If you have clearance issues with TC14 & PCIEx16_1, just use PCIEx16_2. With one GPU it should allow full PCIEx16 3.0 operation. With 2 GPUs you'll get 8/8 mode & with 3, 8/4/4.

( Edited for clarity).


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## JediMindTricks (Mar 4, 2019)

I just discovered my monitor can only run above 60hz at 1920 by 1080 if using DVI-D, which a lot of the cards today seem to not have. I guess that takes care of running above 60hz, I'll just use HDMI and cap frames to 60. Monitor does not have DisplayPort.

Edit: the good models don't have them.


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## rtwjunkie (Mar 4, 2019)

JediMindTricks said:


> I just discovered my monitor can only run above 60hz at 1920 by 1080 if using DVI-D, which a lot of the cards today seem to not have. I guess that takes care of running above 60hz, I'll just use HDMI and cap frames to 60. Monitor does not have DisplayPort.
> 
> Edit: the good models don't have them.


Yeah, pretty much it’s all Display Port or HDMI now (for non-VR.  You might be able to get a DP to DVI-D adaptor to run a newer card with older monitor.  Still, there is IMHO nothing wrong with 60Hz.  It’s good enough for me.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 4, 2019)

MrGenius said:


> Quit using the term "bottlenecked". Problem solved. A better GPU will always perform better. Regardless of the CPU. At least...that's how it works in the real world.





rtwjunkie said:


> More powerful GPU is your answer.  Like MrGenius said, remove bottleneck mindset.  Now, would a more powerful CPU help it mop the floor even better? Yes.  But it is able to make up some of the shortcomings of less powerful cpu’s BECAUSE it is powerful.




People can get away with running a 1080ti or Radeon 7 on a FX8350.

Bottlenecks exist because of Laws of physics, so it is a null point to even worry about.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 4, 2019)

eidairaman1 said:


> People can get away with running a 1080ti or Radeon 7 on a FX8350.


Easily.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 4, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Easily.



I saw a video of it lol.


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## JediMindTricks (Mar 4, 2019)

I really hope AMD brings the goods with Navi, but based on past performance, not likely. If one of the Navis has rtx 2060 performance or a bit better, with 8gb vram at same price point or a bit lower, maybe I'll get that instead.

If Navi is still GCN, I hope Arcturus is a completely new arch. Intel has the budget to throw at GPUs, but I don't know if their first release will bother Nvidia too much.


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## phanbuey (Mar 4, 2019)

JediMindTricks said:


> I really hope AMD brings the goods with Navi, but based on past performance, not likely. If one of the Navis has rtx 2060 performance or a bit better, with 8gb vram at same price point or a bit lower, maybe I'll get that instead.
> 
> If Navi is still GCN, I hope Arcturus is a completely new arch. Intel has the budget to throw at GPUs, but I don't know if their first release will bother Nvidia too much.



I think your parts look good, honestly go for it and OC the CPU and lower the ram latency a bit if you can and it will be a solid gaming rig for those titles.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 4, 2019)

JediMindTricks said:


> I really hope AMD brings the goods with Navi, but based on past performance, not likely. If one of the Navis has rtx 2060 performance or a bit better, with 8gb vram at same price point or a bit lower, maybe I'll get that instead.
> 
> If Navi is still GCN, I hope Arcturus is a completely new arch. Intel has the budget to throw at GPUs, but I don't know if their first release will bother Nvidia too much.



Intels focus will be on more about AI than gaming at all.


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## Vario (Mar 4, 2019)

My advice is to keep the 3570K and install the PHTC14PE, its a great heatsink, it will probably not block your PCIE X16, doesn't block mine.

Buy a newer GPU.  The 3570K is perfectly adequate to feed a modern graphics card.  Don't buy the 3770K it is a waste of money.  The hyperthreading doesn't help a lot.  I have owned a 2500K, 3570K, 3770K, and Xeon 120v2.  They all perform about the same.

Cards to look for are 1060 6GB, 580 8GB, 590 8GB, 1070, Vega 56, 1070ti, 1160Ti, 1080, 2060,


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## John Naylor (Mar 6, 2019)

1. My son is using a 1070 with a 2600k @ 1440p ... after 14 months ... has not as yet experienced any bottlenecking.

2.   I hesitate to invest in new DDR3, should be able to snag some used for much cheaper

3.  I have put a Phantels PH-TC14PE on a Maximus VI Formula, had no clearance issues tho I'm one model newer.   The Phanteks will outperform most 240mm AIOs and it will certainly be much quieter.   Only clearance issue i had with a cooler on an Asus high end board was with the P5AD2 and the Silver Arrow, I rotated it 90 degrees and clearance problem solved.

4.   I'd consider a smaller SSD + 2 TB SSHD for storage.

5.  At 1080p. It's hard to recommend more than a 1660 Ti unless you plan to use ULMB

About $380 more would have you in a new system ....

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

*CPU:* Intel - Core i5-9600K 3.7 GHz 6-Core Processor  ($329.00 @ Powertop)
*CPU Cooler:* Phanteks - PH-TC14CS_RD 88.6 CFM CPU Cooler  (Purchased For $0.00)
*Motherboard:* MSI - MPG Z390 GAMING PLUS ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($174.99 @ Canada Computers)
*Memory:* Crucial - Ballistix Sport LT 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($130.00 @ Amazon Canada)
*Storage:* Samsung - 860 Evo 500 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($107.75 @ Vuugo)
*Storage:* Seagate - FireCuda 2 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Hybrid Internal Hard Drive  ($123.99 @ Powertop)
*Video Card:* Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1660 Ti 6 GB OC Video Card  ($374.75 @ Vuugo)
*Total:* $1240.48
_Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-03-05 20:28 EST-0500_




JediMindTricks said:


> This makes no sense https://www.gpucheck.com/en-usd/com...hz-vs-intel-core-i5-3570k-3-40ghz/ultra/ultra
> 
> I know the 1080 wipes the floor with 1660ti, and somehow a more powerful card is bottlenecked even less? Help me understand.



I don't find GPU check of any real value.  The 1080 has about a 15% advantage over the 1660 Ti at 1080p

https://tpucdn.com/reviews/MSI/GeFo...g_X/images/relative-performance_1920-1080.png

Note however that both sources are showing no real difference between  1080p and 1440p indicating that VRAM is not playing a significant part in performance


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## johnspack (Mar 6, 2019)

Get the 3770k and oc the hell out of it.  If you can afford it,  a 1080 is the best bet.


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## JediMindTricks (Mar 6, 2019)

John Naylor said:


> 1. My son is using a 1070 with a 2600k @ 1440p ... after 14 months ... has not as yet experienced any bottlenecking.
> 
> 2.   I hesitate to invest in new DDR3, should be able to snag some used for much cheaper
> 
> ...




https://tpucdn.com/reviews/MSI/GeFo...X/images/performance-per-dollar_1920-1080.png

https://tpucdn.com/reviews/MSI/GeForce_RTX_2060_Gaming_Z/images/relative-performance_1920-1080.png

The 2060 is 3% lower perf/$ while being 20% faster for relative perf at 1080p. If Navi is a bust, I'll get either MSI Gaming Z or Asus Strix OC 2060, and when overclocked, perform better than a vega 64, 1080 and a stock 2070.

I'm not buying a new system because I want to upgrade to 2k resolution, and a good monitor is around 800$ CAD. Meaning 3000$ CAD for a completely new system. 

edit: This is an example of what it would cost today https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/9bGtfH. And I did not even choose the best of the best.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 6, 2019)

JediMindTricks said:


> https://tpucdn.com/reviews/MSI/GeFo...X/images/performance-per-dollar_1920-1080.png
> 
> https://tpucdn.com/reviews/MSI/GeForce_RTX_2060_Gaming_Z/images/relative-performance_1920-1080.png
> 
> ...



2060 price is meh.


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## JediMindTricks (Mar 15, 2019)

I changed my mind, again.....I feel no matter what, I'll get shafted spending more than 300$ on a gpu right now. Next year, new consoles will launch, and hardware requirements will change for games. With that said, considering that my highest intensive games that I will play on the pc will be :Skyrim SSE with enb and mods, Forza Horizon 4, Halo Wars 2, Age of Empires 2,3,4, Gears 4 and Dota 2, pick me the best gpu model from this list:

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/products/video-card/#G=6442450944,8589934592&sort=price&X=0,32000&page=1

I don't care about power consumption, but I do care about temperatures and noise, A LOT.

This will be a stop gap gpu until I do a completely new build 2-3 years later. It gives me access to directx12 hardware. If my current 680 could of ran these games, I would not have bought a card, but some of them crash because it's not directx 12 hardware....

Thank you again, for the third time!!!!

Edit: I found a mega deal on ebay, brand new* ROG STRIX-GTX1070-O8G-GAMING*, was originally bought for mining on September 2018, but he changed his mind because market crashed, and he only used it in his media center to test it to make sure it works before selling it. It comes with all the original packaging, books, cables, sticker, everything. Payed 377 CAD, which is around 283 US. A 1660 would of cost me about the same, or even more depending on model. A 1660ti would of cost me 110CAD more. 

If it works, I'm VERY happy. 8gb vram for those Skyrim mods and enb, plus it will last me those 2-3 years until I do a new build. Enough horsepower to run all the games I'll play at max settings, 60fps+


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## John Naylor (Mar 16, 2019)

JediMindTricks said:


> The 2060 is 3% lower perf/$ while being 20% faster for relative perf at 1080p. If Navi is a bust, I'll get either MSI Gaming Z or Asus Strix OC 2060, and when overclocked, perform better than a vega 64, 1080 and a stock 2070.



Well if ya can ya favorite games with the video card sitting on ya desk, that's great. But since ya need to the rest of the system to actially play  agame, it
s a fFalse equivalency ... Let's 'do the math:

That system is $843.08 w/ no video card

Adding the 1660 Ti takes it to $1,240.48
Adding the 2060 takes it to $1308.07 

That's a  5.4 % increase in cost  to play games 13% faster ... now lets look at performance what one card does at stock as compared to what another one does at stock is immaterial as both cards can be overclocked ... well AMD cards historically don't OC as well as nVidia so have to account for that

We have no reference 1660Ti on the charts we need to work a bit harder.

Using the stock 2060 as the base ..... and MSI as the representative of AIB cards since TPU has the test results
https://tpucdn.com/reviews/MSI/GeForce_RTX_2060_Gaming_Z/images/relative-performance_1920-1080.png

The MSI 2060 Gaming has (100/97)  relative performance outta the box than the reference 2060 and overclocks (121.1/113.7) for a final score of 109.80
https://tpucdn.com/reviews/MSI/GeForce_RTX_2060_Gaming_Z/images/overclocked-performance.png

The MSI 1660 Ti  Gaming as (100/113)  relative performance outta the box than the reference 2060 and overclocks (99.0/90.3) for a final score of  97.02
https://tpucdn.com/reviews/MSI/GeForce_GTX_1660_Ti_Gaming_X/images/overclocked-performance.png

The stock 1080 has a (98/97)  relative performance outta the box than the reference 2060 and the MSI Gaming overclocks (159.9/137.9) for a final score of  117.15
https://tpucdn.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_1080_Gaming_X/images/perf_oc.png

The stock 2070 has a (111/97)  relative performance outta the box than the reference 2060 and the MSI Gaming overclocks (144.5/128.3/) for a final score of  128.88
https://tpucdn.com/reviews/MSI/GeForce_RTX_2070_Gaming_Z/images/overclocked-performance.png

The stock Vega 64 has a (93/97)  relative performance outta the box than the reference 2060 and the it don't OC much but let's say 5% for final score of re of  100.67
https://tpucdn.com/reviews/MSI/GeForce_RTX_2070_Gaming_Z/images/overclocked-performance.png

So actual performance per dollar in order of *worst to best performance per dollar for the system* is (multiplying by 1000 to get on left side of decimal):

AIB  Vega 64 = 1000 x 100.67 /  $1667.48  = 60.37
AIB 1660 Ti = 1000 x 97.02 / $1240.48 = 78.23
AIB 1080 = 1000 x 117.15 /$1492.96 = 78.46
AIB 2060 = 1000 x 109.8 / 1308.07 = 83.94
AIB 2070 = 1000 x 128.88 / $1509.58 = 85.37

All prices are new Canadian Dollars

EDIT:  Using same $843.08 w/ no video card system + 377 = $1220.08

The stock 1070 has a (83/97)  relative performance outta the box than the reference 2060 and the MSI Gaming 1070 overclocks (140.3/119.6) for a final score of  106.99
https://tpucdn.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_1070_Gaming_Z/images/perf_oc.png

Used AIB 1070 = 1000 x 106.99 / $1220.08 = 87.69

So from a value standpoint ... you did quite well ... can also consider

Just for the proverbial shitz and giggles.... if ya haven't pulled the trigger yet
https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_fro...2.A0.H0.Xgtx+1080.TRS0&_nkw=gtx+1080&_sacat=0

Used AIB 1080 = 1000 x 117.15 / $1249.08 = 93.70


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## JediMindTricks (Mar 16, 2019)

I already pulled the trigger. Now I hope that after 7 years of running the stock cooler, my cpu can still overclock to 4.5ghz .


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