# Can’t successfully clone bootable SSD



## SeptimusFry (Mar 22, 2019)

I am trying to move my boot disc from Samsung 850 500G msata to an 860 1T. New SSD has to be on USB 3 port.
First, tried reliable Acronis 2016. Clone proceeded well, but result not bootable.
Second, tried Acronis recommended backup-and-restore solution. Same result.
Third, tried Samsung Data Migration solution, also failed, but at least Samsung indicated that using USB might cause a problem.
Has anyone here had same or similar and can indicate possible solutions? Please don’t swamp me with loads of alternative software without having experienced this problem. I can’t believe that there aren’t people who have tried, or achieved, this sort of thing.

The platform is Alien MX14-2 W10. - Acronis runs stand-alone, booting off CD. - SDM runs under normal OS operation.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 22, 2019)

After you clone, did you take the new drive out of the USB 3 and put it in the computer on a proper connection?

Windows, normally, can't boot from USB.


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## SeptimusFry (Mar 22, 2019)

PS just re-read and should make clear that I am cloning from internal msata device to the new device via a USB3 port and a proven USB to msata device, and failing to boot AFTER swapping the new SSD in place of original.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 22, 2019)

After swapping the new drive, did you go into the BIOS and make sure it is selected and in the Boot order?  Also, try turning off secureboot.


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## SeptimusFry (Mar 22, 2019)

BIOS needing no actual change, it’s the ‘same’ device. Secure boot off. Over clocking disabled(not that it should matter). I was rather hoping someone might have had this problem, changing up SSDs cannot be a rare thing, and sticking to same manufacturer is logically to be expected.

I get this message with the Samsung clone. \windows\system32\winload.exe error code 0x000000e

With Acronis clone, I got an error ) NTLDR file missing.


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## Solaris17 (Mar 22, 2019)

SeptimusFry said:


> BIOS needing no actual change, it’s the ‘same’ device. Secure boot off. Over clocking disabled(not that it should matter). I was rather hoping someone might have had this problem, changing up SSDs cannot be a rare thing, and sticking to same manufacturer is logically to be expected.
> 
> I get this message with the Samsung clone. \windows\system32\winload.exe error code 0x000000e
> 
> With Acronis clone, I got an error ) NTLDR file missing.



Instead of bashing people and being sarcastic why not include those errors in the OP and lighten up? Surely you will get better responses.

I’m going to go out in a limb and assume you didn’t google literally anything, but it appears to be a pattern in this thread that info is held back until you have condicendigly responded to other memebers.

If you HAD googled though you would realize within a few minutes that you have a corrupt MBR. You would further glean from the provided into that it would generally be as simple as booting off of a USB with a windows installer on it (simple enough given you have a working drive); and simply typing.

Bootrec /fixboot
Bootrec /fixmbr
Bootrec /rebuildbcd

But you know im assuming you did this legwork since your tone seems to indicate this is child’s play. So I’ll let the other members wait to see what error you got when doing that procedure.


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## SeptimusFry (Mar 22, 2019)

Why on earth do you think I am bashing people? I joined this forum after some other not-similar-enough threads came up in my pretty extensive searches. Where did I say it was child’s play? I have never joined a forum to be welcomed with such hatred! It is yourself that is both rude and condescending. You are clearly a very advanced user, but that does not give you the right to attack me so aggressively.


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## Bones (Mar 22, 2019)

Let's move past this and see about a solution.

If the original drive's MBR is corrupt somehow you'll have to do the fix or it will never work, obviously it can only copy what's there and that includes any errors or problems. If the process of cloning is causing it then you'll have to do the fixes anyway, BTW I gather it's being done with a Win 10 OS drive from what I'm seeing.

Try the fixes suggested after cloning with the "New" drive and then give it a shot.


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## SeptimusFry (Mar 22, 2019)

Regarding your reply, can you tell me how to get the Windows RE onto a USB device, I have memory sticks up to 32G.


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## faky1337 (Mar 22, 2019)

Hi there SeptimusFry
In our company we sell SSDs and also replace HDDs in older computers with SSDs. We use different tools to clone the HDDs to SSDs (but also Acronis and Samsung Data Migration). Usually we connect the SSD through a USB Port and then clone the HDD SATA disk to the SSD one. When done we remove the HDD and install the SSD on the SATA Port.

Sometimes we had faulty SSDs which we returned and got a working replacement.
Sometimes we had to clone it twice (first time didn't work, done it again and it surprisingly worked).
We also tested booting from USB3 but it did not work with the actual Windows build.

Make sure all applications capable of blocking stuff (antivirus, antimalware,...) is disabled. Also always gracefully shut down the computer so the OS "closes" the file system.

Do you have a spare SSD to test, if the one you have is faulty?

Also we had problems with computers which had more than 1 disk previously installed. Somehow windows was on the first disk, but the MBR was installed on the second disk. If you use MBR boot make sure the MBR is on the same disk as the windows bootloader.


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## SeptimusFry (Mar 22, 2019)

Bones said:


> Let's move past this and see about a solution.
> 
> If the original drive's MBR is corrupt ... BTW I gather it's being done with a Win 10 OS drive from what I'm seeing.
> 
> Try the fixes suggested after cloning with the "New" drive and then give it a shot.


Is there reason to think the original device MBR is corrupt? It boots with no problems? I assumed the corruption was being introduced in the cloning, and due to using USB interface - as stated on Samsung site?


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## Bones (Mar 22, 2019)

I'll have to do some checking on that and see if I find something that might help, the fix could be simple/stupid or a convoluted mess to do.
It may also be a limitation of the program you're using or somehting in Win 10 itself is getting in the way and if it's the OS, could be it's something intentional by MS.

Do remember that Win 10 once activated ties itself to the all the hardware you're using and I know with certain pieces changed/swapped it will wig out, with other things it doesn't care and _could be_ (Not neccesarily though) in the case of a physically different drive it's doing that.

Will check and see what I can come up with.


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## SeptimusFry (Mar 22, 2019)

Faky1337: I am ignorant of the difference between MBR and the Windows bootloader. 
As far as turning off stuff, that is why I preferred Acronis stand-alone boot.
I like the idea of fixing things from a stand-alone boot, off USB device, but do not know how to create the Windows RE.
I do have an earlier SSD, but it is 256G and my system is getting fat on the 500G, which is why I am doing this...(vicious circle/catch 22)


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## Bones (Mar 22, 2019)

https://www.pcmag.com/feature/362167/how-to-revive-windows-10-with-a-recovery-drive

See if this helps or not.


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## Vario (Mar 22, 2019)

Do you have access to a desktop PC? If so you could put both drives in it and use the Samsung Data Migration to clone the image.  I prefer Samsung Data Migration, I use it for my Samsung SSDs.


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## SeptimusFry (Mar 22, 2019)

Making a recovery drive at the moment. My desktop is in mothballs since we moved house start of 2018 ! Would take days to recommission from the cardboard boxes.


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## Bones (Mar 22, 2019)

I hope it works. 
Good luck!


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## juiseman (Mar 22, 2019)

here is some simple stuff to try:

1.Do you have any other drives plugged in? If so unplug them. Sometimes the boot files hide in another drive.
2. And; already mentioned can you install both drives in the computer? the clone process will be much faster anyhow...
3.Try different clone software. I use this:  https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree

4.check to see if the partition is marked "active" with this tool if you don't like DOS commands
https://www.partitionwizard.com/free-partition-manager.html

5. make a Win10 Installer USB and with only the new cloned drive run the recovery tools. Then select startup repair
6. Are you booting legacy or UEFI? I've had issues with this in the past. you may not have any options in BIOS but
check anyhow.


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## SeptimusFry (Mar 22, 2019)

Juiseman -  you need to know I am an 80-years old photographer, not a computer nerd.My computer is a laptop, unplugging drives is a bit of a hassle, and, since the connections are fragile, I worry about making a new problem. Cannot install mSata drive in a (other) SATA socket. I know there are a slew of other software, but reluctant to try others...
I am hoping to do 5, as suggested previously.
I am booting legacy, don’t know what UEF1 means.

My laptop is not built like my desktop - I can, and have, pulled disks in and out quite merrily. I have already made the battery invisible, working on power only.


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## kastriot (Mar 22, 2019)

https://www.easyuefi.com/wintousb/


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## SeptimusFry (Mar 22, 2019)

Kastriot - too much information, I am still waiting on my USB Windows recovery drive. Thanks...


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## arnold_al_qadr (Mar 22, 2019)

I had clone my os hdd to ssd before, in my case it cannot be done from internal hdd to usb ssd, the solution in my case is using laptop harddrive mount that fit in odd/dvdrw bay (hdd caddy)..

I am using transcend ssd and software..


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## SeptimusFry (Mar 22, 2019)

arnold: sounds similar to my situation. 

I have found that putting my internal working SSD outside on USB3 adaptor, it will not boot. Not that that was what is intended.

Bones: I now have the recovery drive. I’ve booted off it (surprise for me) and have the failed clone in the system drive slot. I think, from a previous post, I should do things from the command prompt, like >bootrec/Fixmbr. But how do I make it apply to the dodgy drive? If it’s like the old days, I need to set the current location to the dodgy drive before typing a command. How do I get a listing of the installed drives...?
Hope you are still there...


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## Durvelle27 (Mar 22, 2019)

If the original Drive works and boots just fine try cloning with a different program. 

I’ve used Clonezilla for many years with no problems even with Windows 10 (Mechanical HDD to M.2 SSD)


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## SeptimusFry (Mar 22, 2019)

Ok, I have used Rebuildbcd to get a list. I have said NO to add installation to boot list. Changed to get that drive as current device.
/fixmbr ...completed successfully
/fixboot ...returns ‘Access is denied’

Am a bit disappointed, that looked good initially. Any ideas? Please don’t give me reference to another cloning utility, if two don’t work I feel I need to try to get one of  them working before branching out, there are just too many utilities, at least I had to pay for Acronis, I reasonably expect it to work.


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## kapone32 (Mar 22, 2019)

Macrium reflect is the software to use. I had a similar issue to you with my last 2 builds and that program ran like a charm. It even allowed me to clone an SSD to a NVME drive on X470.


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## LFaWolf (Mar 22, 2019)

Just a thought - you are spending so much time on this cloning, why not perform a fresh install of Windows and reinstall everything? You get the benefit of a fresh install and your computer will actually run faster, but you can then decide what software that you actually need to install.

Now, if you still want to go with cloning, I have done the same with using a Samsung manufactured usb to sata adapter that came with my Samsung 840. It worked for cloning a Samsung 840 250Gb to 850 500gb. The other time I cloned a 120gb OCZ to 240gb OCZ, I used clonezilla as another user mentioned.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 22, 2019)

SeptimusFry said:


> With Acronis clone, I got an error ) NTLDR file missing.


This is a common error when cloning drives but forgetting to mark the newly created partition as "Active" or bootable. Try using Acronis again and make sure you mark the new partition as active.


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## SeptimusFry (Mar 22, 2019)

lexluther: How do I do that? Not noticed opportunity to mark anything as active.

My previous experience with Acronis enabled Clone//Swap in new for old//Reboot - with nothing in between. But that was mainly simple SATA drives on desktop.


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## Static~Charge (Mar 22, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> This is a common error when cloning drives but forgetting to mark the newly created partition as "Active" or bootable. Try using Acronis again and make sure you mark the new partition as active.


Any disk cloning software worthy of the name should do this automatically.

*SeptimusFry*: Did you take a look at Macrium Reflect as recommended by kapone32 in post #26? The free edition should have no trouble cloning your drive, assuming that the source and target drives are in usable condition.


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## SeptimusFry (Mar 22, 2019)

Static: I have been told to use this and that software, effectively ruling out both the Acronis and Samsung software. I am developing a little better insight into the problem, but am so far reluctant to give up on the two I have and try a possibly long list of other softwares.
I may well have to give up and try something else, I will certainly have Macrium Reflect on the list. Thanks.

I have backed up the ‘data’ (SATA) drive and will try cloning from the system (on the mSataSSD I am replacing) to that second internal (SATA) drive. If that works I will then swap over the mSata drive and try cloning back. If that doesn’t work, it must be a dud drive!


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 22, 2019)

SeptimusFry said:


> lexluther: How do I do that? Not noticed opportunity to mark anything as active.


See below. I don't don't use Acronis, but with AOMEI, it's easy.




In that utility, you right click the partition you want to set active and navigate to "Advanced" then select "Set Active Partition". In Acronis, it's going to be different but should be similar enough to be obvious.


Static~Charge said:


> Any disk cloning software worthy of the name should do this automatically.


Not always. In some systems, for various reasons, the boot flag is not set when the clone process is done.


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## SeptimusFry (Mar 22, 2019)

Well, it doesn’t exist in Acronis, or I can’t find it.
I have succeeded in my original intention, switching around with an external drive. Pity Acronis nor Samsung software could manage with cloning across usb3, but I can now live with it.
With 1Tb system on the 860 SSD and data on a 1Tb Crucial SSD drive and 12Gb memory, and 8cores i7, it is really quick at least by my standards.
Thanks for all the helpful suggestions.


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## Static~Charge (Mar 23, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Not always. In some systems, for various reasons, the boot flag is not set when the clone process is done.


Then I would consider that cloning software to be deficient. If the source drive was bootable, then the target drive should be bootable (it's supposed to be a _clone_, after all...). You shouldn't have to clean up behind it and flag the target drive as active.


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## Bones (Mar 23, 2019)

Have to agree, the cloning software I've used before was a trial version with a limited number of uses and it did everything automatically, no hassles or anything and the cloned drive worked.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 23, 2019)

Static~Charge said:


> If the source drive was bootable, then the target drive should be bootable (it's supposed to be a _clone_, after all...). You shouldn't have to clean up behind it and flag the target drive as active.


I agree with you. However, not all systems are created equal and some configurations prevent the boot flag from being set while a bootable drive is present on the system. It happens to the best of utilities. But as the OP has solved the problem they were having, it's mute point.


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## Solaris17 (Mar 23, 2019)

To shed some light on this. The problem was originally because it was VIA USB like his software stated. This also happens from time to time if you look at my guide for creating a better diag drive in my sig. While I have yet to get the intricate details what I have found suggests the issue stems from how USB devices function.

I am guessing its because USB drives cause alignment issues (think early SSDs) and this destroys the LBA scheme. IE, the MBR looks at wrong parts of the PBR (Partition Boot Record) and thus winload cannot execute. Repairing the MBR generally corrects this issue. (since its "scans for OS (PBR)" and points to the correct sectors and tracks)

The take aways are that in order to fix this generally the easiest way (because not all HDD util MBR repair tools are created equal) is to use "bootrec" from a install drive buy going to "repair windows" and opening a command prompt.

The rub is that the drive generally cant be passed through via USB (since thats the initial problem) thats why "access denied" can happen.

I have found that USB drives such as corsair GTX or W2G certified drives (basically any USB that is detected as a fixed disk) over comes this (being USB themselves) but USB > SATA adapters do not (since the controllers are not as complex and they do CHS translation).


so in short generally the repairs must be done on the drives via there native interface in this case m.SATA and personally with caution (no other drives connected to system) this is how I fixed this system for durvelle https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...ils-to-boot-srttrail-txt.250864/#post-3964662

Its rare to run into odd issues like this, generally winload.exe problems and MBR failures in general stem from

A: build upgrades

B: HDD failure.

but anytime it happens with USB you must follow a specific set of remediations to correct the problem. (in this case bypassing the USB adapters and cloning to a sata drive first and then back to the desired msata drive.)

Glad OP got it sorted.


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## SeptimusFry (Mar 23, 2019)

Solaris. Interesting summary, not that I fully understand it, computer interfacing being low in my knowledge base, but what you seem to be saying chimes with my thinking.

Yes, I got round it by just not cloning over the usb connection. However, two or three years ago I upgraded from a 256G Samsung SSD to a 512G. At that time, all went swimmingly, no problems at all. As I originally stated, Samsung state that is a problem, so I think it is not a simple “no, you can’t do that!”, more a case of “you might have problems doing that”.

I am hoping to do some trials, 1T -> 500G and 500G -> 1T, over USB — if I have time, to see if one or two of the magic bullet alternatives can do what Samsung and Acronis can’t do, or is this specific and unavoidable with this particular configuration.


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