# Worlds lightest Orbea Oiz XC bike



## Deleted member 24505 (Jun 24, 2022)

8.85KG. Now that is impressive for a full susser, it's a very nice piece of kit too. I'd love to have a try of this.
https://bikerumor.com/orbea-oiz-8-85kg-lightweight-brujula-xc-bike/


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## Fangio1951 (Jun 24, 2022)

V/nice, but = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


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## eazen (Jun 29, 2022)

Price so high it’s not even mentioned yea it looks great but what’s the point


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jun 29, 2022)

eazen said:


> Price so high it’s not even mentioned yea it looks great but what’s the point



A standard Orbea Oiz is £6.5k and weighs 10.2KG

The German made Bike Ahead Biturbo RS monocoque 6-spoke carbon wheels are gorgeous, only weigh 1.2KG but have a non fatty limit of 95KG


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## Blaeza (Jun 29, 2022)

95 KG limit! One hop from me and it's game over.


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## eazen (Jun 29, 2022)

Tigger said:


> A standard Orbea Oiz is £6.5k and weighs 10.2KG
> 
> The German made Bike Ahead Biturbo RS monocoque 6-spoke carbon wheels are gorgeous, only weigh 1.2KG but have a non fatty limit of 95KG


I’d be able to handle that, but I think that German bike is even more expensive. Fact is I just bought a new bike and it’s lighter than my old one. I think the diminishing returns on bikes are even worse than on cars, high end graphics cards are a bargain compared to this. 5kg less compared to my normal bike, but I don’t even care, it’s part of my training to move that. My old bike was over 20kg, old aluminum with double springs.


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## Operandi (Jun 29, 2022)

This is the bike industry equivalent of those one off Ferrari's and Lamo's that get built by Saudis that literally have more money than they know what to do with.  People obviously build bikes like this cause they are retail products but I really wonder to what extent they really get ridden for what they are designed for just like those one of a kind super cars.

I also wonder how those wheels ride, I bet they are stiff AF and have very little compliance. Also those brakes look insanely small, are those 160mm rotors?  Also, also, you'd be way faster overall on most trails / courses by taking a few Kg hit and adding a dropper post but then the bike would be back at 10 Kg and nobody would be talking about it. Also, also, also, odd choice going with the stock SRAM crankset (is that the stock cassette too?), I know its carbon but there are  lighter options out there.



eazen said:


> I think the diminishing returns on bikes are even worse than on cars, high end graphics cards are a bargain compared to this. 5kg less compared to my normal bike, but I don’t even care, it’s part of my training to move that. My old bike was over 20kg, old aluminum with double springs.


Its kinda the same thing with every industry that has an extreme enthusiast segment.  Just look at some of the 5 figure _options _you can get on a Porsche or some of the absolutely insane things people buy in the audio industry (by far the worst offender in my opinion).


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jun 29, 2022)

I have fox kashima forks on my bike. They are light and the coating is very durable it seems. It's only a hardtail though, can't afford a really nice sub 20KG susser, and don't want a stupid DH bike to ride as a general bike as i see some morons do.


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## eazen (Jun 29, 2022)

Operandi said:


> This is the bike industry equivalent of those one off Ferrari's and Lamo's that get built by Saudis that literally have more money than they know what to do with.  People obviously build bikes like this cause they are retail products but I really wonder to what extent they really get ridden for what they are designed for just like those one of a kind super cars.
> 
> I also wonder how those wheels ride, I bet they are stiff AF and have very little compliance. Also those brakes look insanely small, are those 160mm rotors?  Also, also, you'd be way faster overall on most trails / courses by taking a few Kg hit and adding a dropper post but then the bike would be back at 10 Kg and nobody would be talking about it. Also, also, also, odd choice going with the stock SRAM crankset (is that the stock cassette too?), I know its carbon but there are  lighter options out there.
> 
> ...


Yep, audiophiles are the most insane people, because they actually think it’s worth to pay 5-10x more to have slightly better sound. Mostly headphones for about 300-500$ are comparable to way more expensive ones, but of course you can also buy ones for 5000$-10000$ if you want. I don’t think these bikes are bad, they look really sophisticated, but doesn’t mean they are the best either. I think bikes are good for up to 3000$ and after that it gets ridiculous, so it’s not nearly as bad as with audio equipment, where after 500$ it’s just a lot of money to burn for the most minimal gains ever, where a lot of it is also just fantasy and placebo. With cars it’s also more about exclusivity, brand and sheer power, and then most people use them as assets anyway and don’t even drive it, so it’s very different to anything else mentioned.


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## dgianstefani (Jun 29, 2022)

If you like expensive parts have a look at https://www.thm.bike/en/.

I have a few of their bits on my 7kg titanium road bike. It's an Opera Palladio, with full Dura Ace 9100.


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## Blaeza (Jun 29, 2022)

dgianstefani said:


> If you like expensive parts have a look at https://www.thm.bike/en/.
> 
> I have a few of their bits on my 7kg titanium road bike. It's an Opera Palladio, with full Dura Ace 9100.


Oooh, shiny...  I ride BMX street so my bike is double the weight of yours but I can jump a 10 stairset and it doesn't fold in half.


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## The red spirit (Jun 29, 2022)

Blaeza said:


> Oooh, shiny...  I ride BMX street so my bike is double the weight of yours but I can jump a 10 stairset and it doesn't fold in half.


You jump everywhere, meanwhile I with my cheap MTB just drive on curbs and speed through potholes. I also abuse it in sand, gravel, sometimes in mud and cobbled streets. Decade later I still haven't popped the tires or bent rims.


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## eazen (Jun 29, 2022)

The red spirit said:


> You jump everywhere, meanwhile I with my cheap MTB just drive on curbs and speed through potholes. I also abuse it in sand, gravel, sometimes in mud and cobbled streets. Decade later I still haven't popped the tires or bent rims.


I used my old MB for over 17 years, it’s great to have a nice MB.


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## Operandi (Jun 29, 2022)

Tigger said:


> I have fox kashima forks on my bike. They are light and the coating is very durable it seems. It's only a hardtail though, can't afford a really nice sub 20KG susser, and don't want a stupid DH bike to ride as a general bike as i see some morons do.


I'm in the process of building a new 130mm full sus trail bike and its going to have Fox Factory all over it.  I'm decent rider but I'm under do delusion that I need the high-end dampeners let alone whatever small benefit Kashima offers, I just think it looks good.

Also weight is really an over rated aspect.  A light bike feels great but it dosn't really make you any faster and it really doesn't make riding any more fun.  My first real mountain bike ended being a used 26er XC race bike hardtail, sub 19 Lbs from the early 00s.  I rode that bike for like 8 years but whenever I would demo a 6+ Lbs heavier modern full suspension I would pretty regularly crush my PRs on Strava without really intending too.



eazen said:


> Yep, audiophiles are the most insane people, because they actually think it’s worth to pay 5-10x more to have slightly better sound. Mostly headphones for about 300-500$ are comparable to way more expensive ones, but of course you can also buy ones for 5000$-10000$ if you want. I don’t think these bikes are bad, they look really sophisticated, but doesn’t mean they are the best either. I think bikes are good for up to 3000$ and after that it gets ridiculous, so it’s not nearly as bad as with audio equipment, where after 500$ it’s just a lot of money to burn for the most minimal gains ever, where a lot of it is also just fantasy and placebo. With cars it’s also more about exclusivity, brand and sheer power, and then most people use them as assets anyway and don’t even drive it, so it’s very different to anything else mentioned.


I would agree that ~$3,000 is about the sweet spot for full suspension mountain bikes.  Spending into the $5,000+ range will get you better performance, more durability, and lower weight so just better everywhere but beyond that you really spending a lot of money just to get the best and are probably compromising one of those three things (performance, durability, weight) at least a bit.

I'm into audio too but yeah, its love hate thing... audiophile stuff is pretty crazy and to the extent some people take it, and buy into stuff is near mental disorder.  I have no doubt there is something to a R-2R DAC, or that foil inductors have an affect but they are awful values compared to a good delta sigma DAC or air core inductor offers.  But if people want to spend %500 more for that extra 2% of performance go for it I guess.


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## Jetster (Jun 29, 2022)

I would break that bike. But it's nice, needs 36. 38, or 40 stanchions, 32 is just to light. Love the 1/11 drive train I wish I had that
Really what I need is a E bike. Specialized but so expensive


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## eazen (Jun 29, 2022)

Operandi said:


> I'm in the process of building a new 130mm full sus trail bike and its going to have Fox Factory all over it.  I'm decent rider but I'm under do delusion that I need the high-end dampeners let alone whatever small benefit Kashima offers, I just think it looks good.
> 
> Also weight is really an over rated aspect.  A light bike feels great but it dosn't really make you any faster and it really doesn't make riding any more fun.  My first real mountain bike ended being a used 26er XC race bike hardtail, sub 19 Lbs from the early 00s.  I rode that bike for like 8 years but whenever I would demo a 6+ Lbs heavier modern full suspension I would pretty regularly crush my PRs on Strava without really intending too.
> 
> ...


Yea I saw good MB with double suspension and it was simply too expensive for me, they started at about 1700€. I opted for a bike under 1000€ with front suspension and switched the seat seating out with one that has inbuilt suspension, cheapo double suspension for about 750€. I was surprised that my other bike back then in 2004 had double suspension for just 800€ and I bought it for 500€ after reduction. I guess the brands are much more expensive and then things like modern brakes etc add to it as well.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jun 29, 2022)

Here's my bike


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## Jetster (Jun 29, 2022)

It's a little dirty right now


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jun 29, 2022)

Operandi said:


> whatever small benefit Kashima offers



Kashima is much more slippery so less stiction, and its very durable, so less chance of scratching the stantions.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jun 29, 2022)

Operandi said:


> This is the bike industry equivalent of those one off Ferrari's and Lamo's that get built by Saudis that literally have more money than they know what to do with.  People obviously build bikes like this cause they are retail products but I really wonder to what extent they really get ridden for what they are designed for just like those one of a kind super cars.
> 
> I also wonder how those wheels ride, I bet they are stiff AF and have very little compliance. Also those brakes look insanely small, are those 160mm rotors?  Also, also, you'd be way faster overall on most trails / courses by taking a few Kg hit and adding a dropper post but then the bike would be back at 10 Kg and nobody would be talking about it. Also, also, also, odd choice going with the stock SRAM crankset (is that the stock cassette too?), I know its carbon but there are  lighter options out there.
> 
> ...



Yes and no... Lambo do make bicycles too...






So does Bugatti..... Supposedly worth $39k










There are a few other exotic car manufacturers that have recently gotten into making bicycles in the last few years but these are the two that i can remember off the top of my head. Are they worth their asking price? Hell no but if you have the money for a lambo or Bugatti or already own one - $40k for a bicycle is cheap!

--- Also carbon can be very forgiving when it comes to cushioning bumps and while carbon can also be made to be very strong I still question how strong those wheels are if you weigh 70-100kg+ doing wheelies and jumping them over small hills and flights of stairs at your local shopping mall (as you do when in an urban environment) Based on the suspension design i'd stay you'd probably be ok

::EDIT::

Audi even have their own E-bike...






::EDIT 2::

had a quick google and i estimate that this orbea will be about $10k - the same bike with standard wheels is $4-9k depending on configuration. The main component that makes up the price tag is just the wheels. Carbon things can be very expensive to manufacturer - ask any F1 team.


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## eazen (Jun 29, 2022)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Yes and no... Lambo do make bicycles too...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great stuff, must be nice to be rich. But actually I’m pretty happy with my bike, I don’t think it matters that much. Same with cars, a nice normal sports car will do as well.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jun 29, 2022)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Yes and no... Lambo do make bicycles too...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They did change a fair few things from stock on the Oiz-
But probably just as much weight is shed in the ultralight hand-laid carbon Darimo 93g T1 Loop seatpost with Dyneema rope saddle rail clamp, 62g stem & 108g flat handlebar. Top that with a 70g full-carbon Saevid saddle, some Orbea foam grips to keep the cockpit light, a 224g pair of Exustar pedals, and Alpitude’s silly light Superleggero carbon loop bottle cage, ultra-machined Ukrainian Garbaruk cassette. 

Did you look through the list on the link, some of the bits are pretty light, and probably pretty expensive too.

The seat on the Audi is fuck ugly.


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## eazen (Jun 29, 2022)

Tigger said:


> The seat on the Audi is fuck ugly.


I didn’t even notice it, it’s so small. More impractical than ugly, whole bike looks like a concept.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jun 29, 2022)

eazen said:


> Great stuff, must be nice to be rich. But actually I’m pretty happy with my bike, I don’t think it matters that much. Same with cars, a nice normal sports car will do as well.



A lot of it is just down to the brand being more of a fashion statement or that you have money more than anything really practical. Thats not to say that they dont offer great experiences when youre in the driving seat of one but for most people its just to show off rather than if the car is really and truly a _'drivers car' - _there are cars out there that will give you proper fun drive for a lot lot less than the cost of a lambo or bugatti.

I could be happier with my bike i think... I want 50-60mm deep aero wheels so i can go faster but those things cost a lot. My bike isnt aero either, its an endurance bike so its already about 2-3% slower than a proper racing/sportive bike. (I just want to go fast...)

Carbon wheels like that are super expensive though. £800-2000+. Im too much of a pawper for that and spending that kind of money isnt practical as i dont race.



Tigger said:


> They did change a fair few things from stock on the Oiz-
> But probably just as much weight is shed in the ultralight hand-laid carbon Darimo 93g T1 Loop seatpost with Dyneema rope saddle rail clamp, 62g stem & 108g flat handlebar. Top that with a 70g full-carbon Saevid saddle, some Orbea foam grips to keep the cockpit light, a 224g pair of Exustar pedals, and Alpitude’s silly light Superleggero carbon loop bottle cage, ultra-machined Ukrainian Garbaruk cassette.
> 
> Did you look through the list on the link, some of the bits are pretty light, and probably pretty expensive too.
> ...




Nope, just a guestimate after looking at the Oiz line up. Its pretty obvious that its not going to be a cheap bike.


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## eazen (Jun 29, 2022)

FreedomEclipse said:


> A lot of it is just down to the brand being more of a fashion statement or that you have money more than anything really practical. Thats not to say that they dont offer great experiences when youre in the driving seat of one but for most people its just to show off rather than if the car is really and truly a _'drivers car' - _there are cars out there that will give you proper fun drive for a lot lot less than the cost of a lambo or bugatti.
> 
> I could be happier with my bike i think... I want 50-60mm deep aero wheels so i can go faster but those things cost a lot. My bike isnt aero either, its an endurance bike so its already about 2-3% slower than a proper racing/sportive bike. (I just want to go fast...)
> 
> ...


Yea sure, like I said, a cheaper sports car will just do fine. Something like a Porsche Targa is a great drivers car, I actually know more about cars than about bikes. It’s not as overbuilt, heavy and overblown as the 911, it’s basically like a older 911, which many people prefer anyway.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jun 29, 2022)

eazen said:


> Yea sure, like I said, a cheaper sports car will just do fine. Something like a Porsche Targa is a great drivers car, I actually know more about cars than about bikes. It’s not as overbuilt, heavy and overblown as the 911, it’s basically like a older 911, which many people prefer anyway.



I was going to mention the 911 originally in my previous post. Times a changing though in the automotive world. You can have a lot of fun with a 3cylinder 1-1.6L turbo charged engine provided its mated with the right chassis. A good example would be the Toyota GR Yaris. Its wont be the fastest thing on the road but it will be super fun to drive.


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## Jetster (Jun 29, 2022)

Here's the E Bike i want. Only 15 K

S-Works Turbo Levo | Specialized.com


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## FreedomEclipse (Jun 29, 2022)

I dont want e-bike - im fast enough.

This is what i want. $5.6k


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## eazen (Jun 29, 2022)

FreedomEclipse said:


> I dont want e-bike - im fast enough.
> 
> This is what i want. $5.6k


That’s a good answer, I don’t like e bikes. Gonna buy a e bike when I’m old (never).


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## Jetster (Jun 29, 2022)

eazen said:


> That’s a good answer, I don’t like e bikes. Gonna buy a e bike when I’m old (never).


10 years ago, I said the same thing


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## eazen (Jun 29, 2022)

Jetster said:


> 10 years ago, I said the same thing


You should’ve sticked with it. I still behave like a teenager or twen when it comes to bikes, that won’t change in 10 years either.


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## Jetster (Jun 29, 2022)

Did you ride today? I did, I rode yesterday too, and the day before. I don't own an e bike yet, but I've been watching the industry for 20 years. Times are changing and never say never


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## eazen (Jun 29, 2022)

Jetster said:


> Did you ride today? I did, I rode yesterday too, and the day before. I don't own an e bike yet, but I've been watching the industry for 20 years. Times are changing and never say never


Good, I’m saying never, a bike for me is something to power with my own body, entirely, no compromises. If I want a motor I drive a car or a motorcycle. It’s a philosophy I have, so you can take my “never” entirely serious.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jun 30, 2022)

E bikes are cheating. I have done 30/40/50 and even a 100 mile ride on my bike, imagine how easy it would be on a E bike. Sometimes I kinda get them depending why you use it. I see a lot of deliveroo, or just eat riders using them in my city, i get that if they are busy all day. Using one for pleasure rides though is just lazy, they don't give you any fitness benefit. I sometimes work in a cycle shop helping with repairs, and most of the E bike riders use powered mode only and never even pedal them, but i guess that's what most E bike riders do, specially when it's a high end bike. 

I ride my bike every day, probably about 60 miles a week, unless i do some group rides when it could be double that or more. I have really good legs now, and probably would not have if my bike was mega light, as i would not be pushing the weight. I do get light bikes though, just don't really see how it benefits your legs muscle development.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jun 30, 2022)

Tigger said:


> E bikes are cheating. I have done 30/40/50 and even a 100 mile ride on my bike, imagine how easy it would be on a E bike. Sometimes I kinda get them depending why you use it. I see a lot of deliveroo, or just eat riders using them in my city, i get that if they are busy all day. Using one for pleasure rides though is just lazy, they don't give you any fitness benefit. I sometimes work in a cycle shop helping with repairs, and most of the E bike riders use powered mode only and never even pedal them, but i guess that's what most E bike riders do, specially when it's a high end bike.
> 
> I ride my bike every day, probably about 60 miles a week, unless i do some group rides when it could be double that or more. I have really good legs now, and probably would not have if my bike was mega light, as i would not be pushing the weight. I do get light bikes though, just don't really see how it benefits your legs muscle development.




Sometimes its not just about the fitness but old age or physical rehabilitation due to injury. If it makes it easier for a 300lb dude to get out, lose weight and get fitter then its a good start. Some peoples joints or muscles might not be so good for medical reasons (muscular atrophy??) or they just live in super hilly areas. If i lived in a super hilly area - id get an e-bike too. No shame in that, I just dont expect to keep it forever.

sometimes working long shifts on your feet all day can make cycling home a pain, especially if you have to do it every day. Everyone's circumstances are different and cycling even 5miles is really hard for more people than you expect - Not because they are unfit but because they think 5miles is a very long distance and they arent used to cycling that long.


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## eazen (Jun 30, 2022)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Sometimes its not just about the fitness but old age or physical rehabilitation due to injury. If it makes it easier for a 300lb dude to get out, lose weight and get fitter then its a good start. Some peoples joints or muscles might not be so good for medical reasons (muscular atrophy??) or they just live in super hilly areas. If i lived in a super hilly area - id get an e-bike too. No shame in that, I just dont expect to keep it forever.
> 
> sometimes working long shifts on your feet all day can make cycling home a pain, especially if you have to do it every day. Everyone's circumstances are different and cycling even 5miles is really hard for more people than you expect - Not because they are unfit but because they think 5miles is a very long distance and they arent used to cycling that long.


Imagine there is no e bike? What then? Exactly, no excuses. If you get used to not use your body you’ll get unfit. Fitness is about doing it, forcing it, pushing yourself. And I also love that bikes are completely analogue, no electronics. A e bike contradicts so many good things about biking. It’s not about cheating, it’s about staying healthy and for once doing something which is more natural and less to do with electronics. If you can’t drive 5 miles, that’s a problem, take a train then or get a motorbike, whatever. I don’t see the sense in buying a e bike. Once you do it, you have lost the battle. Most people probably abuse the motor, he’s right.


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## freeagent (Jun 30, 2022)

This used to be my bike


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## Shrek (Jun 30, 2022)

My mountain bike weighs 19.5kg and it is HEAVY; I actually expected this bike to be a lot less than half of mine.


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## freeagent (Jun 30, 2022)

Shrek said:


> My mountain bike weighs 19.5kg and it is HEAVY; I actually expected this bike to be a lot less than half of mine.


Not sure how heavy my Big Hit is, probably two or three of my Vertexes


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## Shrek (Jun 30, 2022)

Mine is a work bike, so I use extra thick inner tubes; and anyhow, I could do with the exercise.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jun 30, 2022)

eazen said:


> Imagine there is no e bike? What then?



then you take your fat ass to the gym or buy an indoor bike to train up



freeagent said:


> This used to be my bike
> 
> View attachment 252984View attachment 252985View attachment 252986



used to be? what happened? stolen??


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## eazen (Jun 30, 2022)

FreedomEclipse said:


> then you take your fat ass to the gym or buy an indoor bike to train up


Or you clinch your ass cheeks together and just drive. Motivation is everything. E bikes are really like a cheat code, what is this weird mix of bike and motorcycle, I hated it since I first saw it, it’s for losers, I’m sorry.


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## freeagent (Jun 30, 2022)

FreedomEclipse said:


> then you take your fat ass to the gym or buy an indoor bike to train up
> 
> 
> 
> used to be? what happened? stolen??


Yup, New Years Eve 2015.. We lived in an apartment building. The room that had our storage lockers was broken into, and everyone's locker was looted. This room was next to the caretakers suite.. of course they were not home.. and we didn't have insurance because I was cheap.. and that's what happens when you cheap out on the wrong things.. lesson learned


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## eazen (Jun 30, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Yup, New Years Eve 2015.. We lived in an apartment building. The room that had our storage lockers was broken into, and everyone's locker was looted. This room was next to the caretakers suite.. of course they were not home.. and we didn't have insurance because I was cheap.. and that's what happens when you cheap out on the wrong things.. lesson learned


That's sad, nobody expects something like that to happen and then it does.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jun 30, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Yup, New Years Eve 2015.. We lived in an apartment building. The room that had our storage lockers was broken into, and everyone's locker was looted. This room was next to the caretakers suite.. of course they were not home.. and we didn't have insurance because I was cheap.. and that's what happens when you cheap out on the wrong things.. lesson learned



Sorry for your loss - a friend of mine had his bike stolen the same way on new years day. His family lived in a rough area on a 3rd or 4th floor apartment and he left the bike on his balcony like a lot of people do thinking that nobodys gonna come and steal it.... Well, some people jumped over the fence into the shared garden below that night then one of them SCALED THE BUILDING like spiderman to get to his bike and toss it down to his friends below.

He still sees these people riding around the hood on his bike - he's reported it to the police multiple times but the police wont do nothing.  

His family didnt have home insurance or insurance for the bike either.


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## Operandi (Jun 30, 2022)

eazen said:


> Yea I saw good MB with double suspension and it was simply too expensive for me, they started at about 1700€. I opted for a bike under 1000€ with front suspension and switched the seat seating out with one that has inbuilt suspension, cheapo double suspension for about 750€. I was surprised that my other bike back then in 2004 had double suspension for just 800€ and I bought it for 500€ after reduction. I guess the brands are much more expensive and then things like modern brakes etc add to it as well.


Yeah, just making a point that weight isn't really that big of deal.  You'll be a bit faster up climbs but it does nothing for the downs and flats, where as good full suspension will make you faster on everything, even climbs if they are at all technical.  That said full suspension only makes sense when you are shopping at certain price level, entry level full suspension isn't worth the complexity and the performance gains are not there.



Tigger said:


> Kashima is much more slippery so less stiction, and its very durable, so less chance of scratching the stantions.


All true but its nothing you are ever going to feel it.  I have no doubt it is technically smoother and longer lasting and but the best way to keep you suspension feeling good is to service it when you are supposed to.  Its cool stuff, but its paying that extra 25% to get that extra 1-2% of performance kinda thing.


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## Frick (Jun 30, 2022)

FreedomEclipse said:


> I dont want e-bike - im fast enough.
> 
> This is what i want. $5.6k



There's e-bikes and then there's e-bikes.



Tigger said:


> E bikes are cheating. I have done 30/40/50 and even a 100 mile ride on my bike, imagine how easy it would be on a E bike. Sometimes I kinda get them depending why you use it. I see a lot of deliveroo, or just eat riders using them in my city, i get that if they are busy all day. Using one for pleasure rides though is just lazy, they don't give you any fitness benefit. I sometimes work in a cycle shop helping with repairs, and most of the E bike riders use powered mode only and never even pedal them, but i guess that's what most E bike riders do, specially when it's a high end bike.



Pleasant things does not have to have fitness benefits as well. I assume you don't do cardio while gaming.


eazen said:


> Imagine there is no e bike? What then? Exactly, no excuses. If you get used to not use your body you’ll get unfit. Fitness is about doing it, forcing it, pushing yourself. And I also love that bikes are completely analogue, no electronics. A e bike contradicts so many good things about biking. It’s not about cheating, it’s about staying healthy and for once doing something which is more natural and less to do with electronics. If you can’t drive 5 miles, that’s a problem, take a train then or get a motorbike, whatever. I don’t see the sense in buying a e bike. Once you do it, you have lost the battle. Most people probably abuse the motor, he’s right.



The number of cyclists I encounter who cycle for fitness are ... very few. Most do it because it's convenient and nice on some days. The fitness benefit rarely has anything to do with it, and I live in a very flat place so it's not like there's any challange to be had anywhere. And as far as doing something that is more natural, why not run instead? Way purer than biking.


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## eazen (Jun 30, 2022)

Frick said:


> The number of cyclists I encounter who cycle for fitness are ... very few. Most do it because it's convenient and nice on some days. The fitness benefit rarely has anything to do with it, and I live in a very flat place so it's not like there's any challange to be had anywhere. And as far as doing something that is more natural, why not run instead? Way purer than biking.


Did you ask them? Did they tell you they don’t care about the fitness aspect about it? Somehow I don’t believe that. Yes cycling for fun is nice, but the fitness aspect is important too, I don’t see that many fun bikers here. I see mixed bikers that do it for both and serious bikers that use racing bikes.

If my environment would be totally flat I would naturally just drive more with the bike, challenge is relative, it doesn’t need mountains or hills.


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## Frick (Jun 30, 2022)

eazen said:


> Did you ask them? Did they tell you they don’t care about the fitness aspect about it? Somehow I don’t believe that. Yes cycling for fun is nice, but the fitness aspect is important too, I don’t see that many fun bikers here. I see mixed bikers that do it for both and serious bikers that use racing bikes.
> 
> If my environment would be totally flat I would naturally just drive more with the bike, challenge is relative, it doesn’t need mountains or hills.



Middle aged people cycling slow as to not build up a sweat aren't really pushing themselves, are they? Or the chainsmoking students who smokes while cycling to whatever it is they do in the night.


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## eazen (Jun 30, 2022)

Frick said:


> Middle aged people cycling slow as to not build up a sweat aren't really pushing themselves, are they? Or the chainsmoking students who smokes while cycling to whatever it is they do in the night.


Maybe true but I don’t see many E bikers here, and people who don’t push themselves, for what should they need e bikes? Yea a few students would buy them if they weren’t expensive.


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## Jetster (Jun 30, 2022)

There are reasons for an e bike you're not considering
Where I ride uphill is very difficult, in fact most of the heavy DH bike get walked up hill. I like to ride up, always have. It takes 50 minutes to climb a hill. People with e bike are make 4 or 5 loops instead of 2. I want to ride more, nothing wrong with that.

Again, 10 years ago I was dead set against e bikes. Not so any longer. I want one to add to my bike collection. Search Black Rock Oregon. I live 20 minutes from there


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## Operandi (Jun 30, 2022)

eazen said:


> Or you clinch your ass cheeks together and just drive. Motivation is everything. E bikes are really like a cheat code, what is this weird mix of bike and motorcycle, I hated it since I first saw it, it’s for losers, I’m sorry.


e-bikes have legit uses.  If you have an existing condition holding your fitness back or are getting up there in age, e-bikes get you into a sport that would otherwise be a painful grind or out of reach entirely.  People also use them on longer commutes that would either take way to long on regular bike or turn you into sweaty mess.  Also, I don't think you understand how e-bikes from traditional bike manufactures work, they only _assist _you; they have different levels of assist but if you don't put power into the pedals they don't do anything so you are still getting cardio in.


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## eazen (Jun 30, 2022)

Operandi said:


> e-bikes have legit uses.


Never doubted that, I was just explaining why it’s not for me.



Operandi said:


> they have different levels of assist but if you don't put power into the pedals they don't do anything so you are still getting cardio in.


Seems to be everyone has different opinions on this, one guy says people are just driving via motor, other guy says it gives you cardio training, which I really doubt. I bet it’s a nice placebo though. Like pretending to be running but just walking a bit outside.


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## Jetster (Jun 30, 2022)

eazen said:


> Never doubted that, I was just explaining why it’s not for me.
> 
> 
> Seems to be everyone has different opinions on this, one guy says people are just driving via motor, other guy says it gives you cardio training, which I really doubt. I bet it’s a nice placebo though. Like pretending to be running but just walking a bit outside.


The changes in e bikes in the last 3 years have been just this. The motor helps you maintain a cadence. Nothing more, if it feels your backing off, it helps you in maintain the cadence. The percentage of help depends on the setting you select. Anything from 10% to 80%. If you stop peddling, it stops helping. But it comes at a cost. The cheaper e bikes don't do this


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## Operandi (Jun 30, 2022)

eazen said:


> Never doubted that, I was just explaining why it’s not for me.
> 
> 
> Seems to be everyone has different opinions on this, one guy says people are just driving via motor, other guy says it gives you cardio training, which I really doubt. I bet it’s a nice placebo though. Like pretending to be running but just walking a bit outside.


Its not for me either but like you I don't have a need for one.  You said it was cheat codes and for losers, if I did have a legitimate use cause for one I would find that statement offensive.

Its not my opinion, thats how they work.  Its an assist; you can go further and/or faster for a given effort you put in but you are still putting in that effort.


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## eazen (Jun 30, 2022)

If I’m doing it for training I don’t need a e bike, if I’m joyriding I’m buying a motorcycle I’m not a fan of mixed bags.


Operandi said:


> You said it was cheat codes and for losers


Go pick on the guy who originally said that, I just agreed.


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## Operandi (Jun 30, 2022)

eazen said:


> Go pick on the guy who originally said that, I just agreed.


Nah, they should be able to infer how I feel about their comment based on my reaction to yours.


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## eazen (Jun 30, 2022)

Operandi said:


> Nah, they should be able to infer how I feel about their comment based on my reaction to yours.


The arguments for e bikes are weak so far.

- joy riders who want to drive up and down, the few people who want to do that
- old people who can’t bike anymore, okay
- people who just need a transport, there’s better things than e bikes for that.

Yea good luck convincing me, won’t happen. It’s a meaningless discussion kinda. And I don’t see why someone who doesn’t need or like e bikes is so defensive of those.


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## HammerON (Jun 30, 2022)

Please remember to respect other's opinions.  If you cannot, I will help you  keep it civil folks.
Carry on!

On topic, I have a Trek but don't ride like I used to when I was younger.  It's not the lightest, but not the heaviest either (14.40 kg / 31.75 lbs).  I like the idea of e-bikes and will probably get one eventually.


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## Operandi (Jun 30, 2022)

eazen said:


> The arguments for e bikes are weak so far.
> 
> - joy riders who want to drive up and down, the few people who want to do that
> - old people who can’t bike anymore, okay
> ...


Convincing you or anyone else is really of little consequence but the bottom line is e-bikes are get people out doors breathing fresh air and exercising that otherwise couldn't, (and it is exercise regardless or whatever your opinion of it is) and we really shouldn't be shaming people and calling them losers for that.


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## eazen (Jun 30, 2022)

Operandi said:


> Convincing you or anyone else is really of little consequence but the bottom line is e-bikes are get people out doors breathing fresh air and exercising that otherwise couldn't, (and it is exercise regardless or whatever your opinion of it is) and we really shouldn't be shaming people and calling them losers for that.


i can’t remember calling disabled people losers, but enjoy your high horse and remember air gets thin up there. I don’t need to justify myself to you either. This is typical internet nonsense with people pretending to be better etc.


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## Jetster (Jun 30, 2022)

eazen said:


> This is typical internet nonsense


Completely agree


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 2, 2022)

Sorry for joining a bit late. Let me start by saying I'm 70. Old yes, but then I just talked to my 99 year old aunt. 

A little background. I rode a lot up until I was 30. Then life, kids, military got in the way. Fast forward 25 years and I picked it up again with a decent hybrid. Then about 8 years ago, I decided to plunk down some serious change (for me) on a decent road bike. 

Note that exercise is work. Work is a dirty 4-letter word. I'm retired. I don't work anymore. I ride because I love to ride. Jogging is work. And it hurts my joints. 

Being retired, I ride everyday it is above 60°F and not raining. I road my bike (Trek Emonda carbon) 4,729 miles last year. Plus another 500 miles with my hybrid on crushed rock. I can ride 30+ miles, 2 1/2+ hours in a single outing no problem (with a proper application of butt-butter, of course). But if I walk 3 blocks to the Post Office and back, my hip and knee start killing me. 

I live within a mile of the Missouri River in the Omaha, NE, Council Bluffs, IA metro area. There are 100s of miles of flood control levees throughout the area with bike trails sitting on top. The only hills are those that go under roads. 

To my point - eBikes are ruining it for us regular pushers. It does not help they have put eBike rental stations throughout the metro area either. 

It is not the folks that @Operandi describes above in Post #52 who are the problem. It is the younger (16 - 24 year "kids") who speed along and fail to follow trail etiquette (announce your presence when passing, single file when passing, staying to right, etc.). It is also the weekenders who otherwise would not ride, who ride 2 and 3 abreast, fail to watch for who is coming (even from the front!  ) then act like we disciplined riders are the problem when we yell well in advance, "Heads-up" or "On your left"!  

Any way, when eBikes first came out and got popular, I felt (and in some cases still believe) those people were "cheating". Now (at age 70), I am thinking if an eBike will keep me riding _when I get old_  I will probably join their ranks and get one too.


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## The red spirit (Jul 3, 2022)

Frick said:


> The number of cyclists I encounter who cycle for fitness are ... very few. Most do it because it's convenient and nice on some days. The fitness benefit rarely has anything to do with it, and I live in a very flat place so it's not like there's any challange to be had anywhere. And as far as doing something that is more natural, why not run instead? Way purer than biking.


I just drive like a madman. It's mostly for fun tho. The biggest benefit is that MTB is basically a motorless urban SUV basically. You can drive where pedestrians walk, but you can also drive in mud, sand, grass or whatever really. Don't like walking, but want to go fast, but you are weak, bicycle it is. Unlike those e-scooters and other Chinese crap, a bicycle has basically no cost per ride (it's decade and my tires still hold up and there's no dry rotting or other crap, they are still good and you have big diameter wheels, so you can actually use it offroad. Those e-scooters can't even go over pothole or curb, they are borderline useless even in city, because curbs are inevitable and so are unmaintained roads with potholes and rocks.


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## Gungar (Jul 4, 2022)

eazen said:


> Good, I’m saying never, a bike for me is something to power with my own body, entirely, no compromises. If I want a motor I drive a car or a motorcycle. It’s a philosophy I have, so you can take my “never” entirely serious.



The problem in your philosophy it's that you still drive a car or motorcycle in 2022. I can do everything with the ebike 100x more efficient.


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## Operandi (Jul 8, 2022)

Bill_Bright said:


> I live within a mile of the Missouri River in the Omaha, NE, Council Bluffs, IA metro area. There are 100s of miles of flood control levees throughout the area with bike trails sitting on top. The only hills are those that go under roads.
> 
> To my point - eBikes are ruining it for us regular pushers. It does not help they have put eBike rental stations throughout the metro area either.
> 
> ...


I'm sure your experience varies depending on where you live, I live just outside of the city but its about 1/5 the size of Omaha.  Whenever I see e-bikes its mostly around town in the downtown area and occasionally at the bike rack at work and they are usually cheapie hybrids.  I rarely if ever run into them when I'm commuting and when I do they are usually going slower than I am.  The general stupidity on bikes I see is almost always in social and economically disadvantaged areas of town on traditional bikes.  I don't think I've ever seen a road e-bike when I'm on out on longer 50+ mile road rides and I think e-mountain bikes are not allowed on the trails ("trails" being technical single track, not bike paths) here, though I don't think anyone would ever really enforce it unless someone starts doing something dumb like derestricting the motor and tears up the trail.

I do see a lot of kids on electric scooters that would have probably been on bikes 10 years ago but thats just bad parenting.  However on the other hand we also have HS mountain biking and I sometimes run into them on the trails training or just otherwise riding and they are definitely doing it right so theres that.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jul 8, 2022)

Bill_Bright said:


> I can ride 30+ miles, 2 1/2+ hours in a single outing no problem (with a proper application of butt-butter, of course).



I'm 54, have done 100 mile rides, and avg with my group is 30+, wtf is bum butter. i do not wear padded shorts or put any kind of gunk on my ass and have never had any problem riding long/er rides. Well done on being a regular cyclist though as i am, and regularly ride 100-200 miles a week.


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