# NVIDIA GeForce RTX Series Prices Up To 71% Higher Than Previous Gen



## btarunr (Aug 20, 2018)

NVIDIA revealed the SEP prices of its GeForce RTX 20-series, and it's a bloodbath in the absence of competition from AMD. The SEP price is the lowest price you'll be able to find a custom-design card at. NVIDIA is pricing its reference design cards, dubbed "Founders Edition," at a premium of 10-15 percent. These cards don't just have a better (looking) cooler, but also slightly higher clock speeds.

The GeForce RTX 2070 is where the lineup begins, for now. This card has an SEP pricing of USD $499. Its Founders Edition variant is priced at $599, or a staggering 20% premium. You'll recall that the previous-generation GTX 1070 launched at $379, with its Founders Edition at $449. The GeForce RTX 2080, which is the posterboy of this series, starts at $699, with its Founders Edition card at $799. The GTX 1080 launched at $599, with $699 for the Founders Edition. Leading the pack is the RTX 2080 Ti, launched at $999, with its Founders Edition variant at $1,199. The GTX 1080 Ti launched at $699, for the Founders Edition no less.





*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## Durvelle27 (Aug 20, 2018)

I’m getting


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## xkm1948 (Aug 20, 2018)

I am pre-ordering right meow


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## gasolina (Aug 20, 2018)

i'm a bit confused by the fact that on their site it is 1199$ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/rtx-2080-ti/ and why on the slide it 999$ ? i will get a pair though


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## xkm1948 (Aug 20, 2018)

gasolina said:


> i'm a bit confused by the fact that on their site it is 1199$ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/rtx-2080-ti/ and why on the slide it 999$ ? i will get a pair though




I think Nvidia had a whole bunch of pricing internally set and Jetsun Huang makes the final decision on live stream. DAMN NICE price TBH


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## ppn (Aug 20, 2018)

2070 is 599 vat included. Not bad at all for a powerhog. I mean powerhowse for rays.


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## Kissamies (Aug 20, 2018)

Here in Finland the prices are very interesting.

RTX 2070 659eur
RTX 2080 869eur
RTX 2080 Ti 1299eur

The prices are nothing but a joke. I remember when I thought that people paying over 500eur from a graphics card was something unbelievable.


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## gasolina (Aug 20, 2018)

he said from the infiltrator test the 1080ti could do like 3x fps and the 2080ti around 78 which i believe double though, so best case scenario if this is double the per 1080ti ( 650$ and sli set up should be 1300-1400$) i would glady to pay up to 1500$ for the 2080ti . on theory the nvlink would double the vram so kinda sweet, i'm placing my bet here with a distributor to get my hand on a pair of 2080ti hopefully i would not turn out to be awful and really looking forward to overclocking these guys.


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## Divide Overflow (Aug 20, 2018)

"from"


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## dir_d (Aug 20, 2018)

Not worth for me anyone got a 1080ti for sale


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## oxidized (Aug 20, 2018)

_L            E            M           A             O_


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## deu (Aug 20, 2018)

oxidized said:


> _L            E            M           A             O_
> 
> 
> View attachment 105691




Just ordered a MSI DUKE aftermarket and paid 1.174 EURO for it! :0 That is about 100 euros more than the 1080Ti at launch. :0


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## GoldenX (Aug 20, 2018)

ÜBER EXPENSIVE! Etherium is dead, lower the prices, damnit!
Now I want Intel's project sooner.


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## Vayra86 (Aug 20, 2018)

Buyer's remorse in 3.2.1....

Pre ordering without any knowledge of performance. I'm amazed by some people. And not in a good way


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## noel_fs (Aug 20, 2018)

I think its quite reasonable considering the ray tracing shit and the performance improvement. Obviouly its gonna be overpriced but shame on amd that there is no competition. Keep in mind that im amd fanboy but it is what it is.

And as many other have said they are pre-order prices, even if i could i wouldnt buy it for that price.


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## TheOne (Aug 20, 2018)

NVIDIA pulling the MSRP vs FE pricing again , and changing the price scheme, now the x70 is the x80, the x80 is the x80 Ti, and the x80 Ti is the Titan.  If I find a 2070 for the MSRP I might buy one, though $500 is still insane for a single piece of hardware intended only for gaming, but never going to pay more.


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## medi01 (Aug 20, 2018)

noel_fs said:


> I think its quite reasonable


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## neatfeatguy (Aug 20, 2018)

Alright! I'm picking up a RTX 2080Ti....

That is if I didn't have a mortgage....
and kids....
and the need to eat for a month....

Other than those roadblocks, yeah, who am I kidding? I had a helluva time scraping together the funds for my 980Ti cards 3+ years back.

Thankfully I'm not a graphic whore. I'm rather content on my med/high settings for my 5760x1080 setup. If a game doesn't support that wide resolution well, I get by maxing out the game on 1920x1080. Aside from my cards taking a dump on me, they should hold me just fine for a couple more years.

Though, it is a bit surprising to see the 980Ti cards going from MSRP of $649, then the 1080Ti $699 to the 2080Ti at $999 - holy hell! The price jump is crazy.


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## Somethingnew (Aug 20, 2018)

Yeah exactly almost 50 % price hike , are they crazy ? So basically after 3 years , if rtx 2080 ti would be 40 % faster than gtx 1080 ti , then the real price per frame would be even more expensive after 3 years ? Are they insane ?


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## Tomorrow (Aug 20, 2018)

Wow so many ingnorant people still keep posting pre order prices here. Get trough your thick skulls. These are PRE ORDER prices you see on regional Nvidia websites.
These are the real prices:

2080Ti: 999$/1050€
2080: 699$/750€
2070: 499$/550€


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## TheOne (Aug 20, 2018)

Newegg has added the RTX 2080 and 2080 Ti, the 2080 is ranging from $790 - $870, and the 2080 Ti is $1170 - $1240.

Edit:

Amazon is 2080 $750 - $840, 2080 Ti $1170 - $1210.


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## Somethingnew (Aug 20, 2018)

So you think that 999 $ for rtx 2080 ti , almost 50 % more than gtx 1080 ti at launch if fair price ? Even if rtx 2080 ti would be 50 % faster , then it would mean that price per frame is the same after almost 3 years , so in the next 3 years we will pay 1500 $ for the flagship ? How can i say its fair , for me it's all seems like being too greedy . Not to mention the same amount of memory , higher tdp , outdated 12 nm proccess when 7 nm will be rolling out soon ?


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## Tomorrow (Aug 20, 2018)

Somethingnew said:


> So you think that 999 $ for rtx 2080 ti , almost 50 % more than gtx 1080 ti at launch if fair price ? Even if rtx 2080 ti would be 50 % faster , then it would mean that price per frame is the same after almost 3 years , so in the next 3 years we will pay 1500 $ for the flagship ? How can i say its fair , for me it's all seems like being too greedy . Not to mention the same amount of memory , higher tdp , outdated 12 nm proccess when 7 nm will be rolling out soon ?


50% higer vs 1080Ti? Yeah - NO. 1080Ti MSRP was 699$. 999$ makes it 30% more expensive. Yet it ran twice as fast in UE4 4K demo on stage vs 1080Ti. 78fps vs 35fps. That is twice as fast. Essentially 1080Ti SLI performance on a single card.

Same amount but faster memory. Cutting edge 12nm process. There may be only some ultra expensive enterprise cards launching on 7nm this year. Currently only AMD has announced their 7nm Vega part for HPC later this year. 7nm is not ready for mass production.


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## GoldenX (Aug 20, 2018)

Tomorrow said:


> Wow so many ingnorant people still keep posting pre order prices here. Get trough your thick skulls. These are PRE ORDER prices you see on regional Nvidia websites.
> These are the real prices:
> 
> 2080Ti: 999$/1050€
> ...


Still expensive.


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## bug (Aug 20, 2018)

The frightening thing is, the 2060 could be pushing $400


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## Somethingnew (Aug 20, 2018)

To be exact 43 % more expensive , so if it will be similar in performance gain. Then after such long wait , we would pay the same amout of money per frame ? You call it progrress ? I would describe it as being greedy .


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## Tomorrow (Aug 20, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> Still expensive.


That is why there will be 2060 and 2050 models in November. But regardless of the pricing someone will always claim the prices too high.


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## Somethingnew (Aug 20, 2018)

So if the trend continue , the the next flagship card could get 1430 $ that's scary as fuck .


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## Manu_PT (Aug 20, 2018)

Good luck high-end PC gaming. Sony is laughing right now.

Nvidia did something amazing! They made PC gaming even more luxurious and niche!! Congrats!!

850€ for a GPU that isn´t even top of the line, ahahahahah hilarious!! Welcome to 2018 dudes!

Sony is laughing right now!


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## Tomorrow (Aug 20, 2018)

Somethingnew said:


> To be exact 43 % more expensive , so if it will be similar in performance gain. Then after such long wait , we would pay the same amout of money per frame ? You call it progrress ? I would describe it as being greedy .


You take the pre order price. Yes that is 43% more. SEP is 30%.


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## Somethingnew (Aug 20, 2018)

No the prices are just sick in my opinion , especially considering it's the same amout of memory and old 12 nm manufacturing proccess .


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## FordGT90Concept (Aug 20, 2018)

I'm so confused.  SEP?  Suggested ____________ Price?  Does NVIDIA only show the Founders Edition price on their website which has an NVIDIA branding premium on it?  SEP is more realistic for AIB pricing?


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## Somethingnew (Aug 20, 2018)

No that's sep pricing . And founders edition rtx 2080 ti is 1199 $ so it's even more expensive .


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## Tomorrow (Aug 20, 2018)

Somethingnew said:


> No the prices are just sick in my opinion , especially considering it's the same amout of memory and old 12 nm manufacturing proccess .


Old? Titan V released in December 7th 2017. There is nothing newer currently. 7nm is upcoming. Besides considering the die sizes - good luck manufacturing these behemoths on a node that has not even produced a single mass market product. What you're asking is that Nvidia should have delayed Turing to 2019.


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## TheOne (Aug 20, 2018)

Looks like game streaming is the future.


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## AltCapwn (Aug 20, 2018)

I paid my 780 700$CAD (vs. 900$ now) when it got released.

I think they're exagerating a bit like Intel.

AMD, could you please do the same thing that you did with Intel but with Nvidia?

I mean, I love PC gaming but damn it's now a luxury with the price of the GPUs and the price of the memory that high. I know you can create low cost PC but will the gaming experience be still nice compared to ps4 pro for example?

dunno.



TheOne said:


> Looks like game streaming is the future.



Maybe EA was right afterall! 

EDIT; 

Wow I'm just checking the new price for GTX 1080 ; 600$ CAD, it's a joke for those who bought it 900$CAD 1-2 months ago.


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## Somethingnew (Aug 20, 2018)

So actually the price of gtx 1080 ti founders edition while introduced was 699 $ , rtx 2080 ti is 1199 $ , so founders to founders edition is 72 %%% more expensive


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## TheOne (Aug 20, 2018)

bug said:


> The frightening thing is, the 2060 could be pushing $400



I wouldn't be surprised if it is $400 for the RTX 2060 3/4GB, $450 for the RTX 2060 6/8GB, they may go with $300-400, but given the current pricing $400+ seems possible.


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## Somethingnew (Aug 20, 2018)

Tomorrow said:


> Old? Titan V released in December 7th 2017. There is nothing newer currently. 7nm is upcoming. Besides considering the die sizes - good luck manufacturing these behemoths on a node that has not even produced a single mass market product. What you're asking is that Nvidia should have delayed Turing to 2019.


12 nm is in principle 16 nm finfet with small improvements , so i would call it old , especially after waiting such long time for new generation , and considering price hike , the same amount of memory , higher tdp . You would call that something new ? 7 nm will be rolling out soon enough . What is the most bothering thing is the price point , actually if the performance gaing is similar to price hike , then basicly after waiting almost 3 years , we pay the same price per frame ? Isnt that sick and greedy as fuck ? How would you describe that ? I would understand small prcie hike , even thought there isnt more memory , or older process, but 72 % price hike fe to fe is riddicolus , if the price increase would be in 50 % range , then it would mean that we would actually have to pay more per frame that almost 3 years ago . How you would call that ? Greedy , crazy expensive ? So if we continue that trend then the next flagship card could cost 2000 $ range ?


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## bug (Aug 20, 2018)

Manu_PT said:


> Good luck high-end PC gaming. Sony is laughing right now.
> 
> Nvidia did something amazing! They made PC gaming even more luxurious and niche!! Congrats!!
> 
> ...


It's because both Polaris and Vega have been so successful, Nvidia now has to scrape the bottom of the barrel for leftovers, isn't it?


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## Somethingnew (Aug 20, 2018)

Yes exactly . That's what happens when there is no real competiton , company can sell products with high margins , and be greedy as much as they want


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## Fluffmeister (Aug 20, 2018)

Somethingnew said:


> Yes exactly . That's what happens when there is no real competiton , company can sell products with high margins , and be greedy as much as they want



Yep, a business at the top of their game.


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## Somethingnew (Aug 20, 2018)

Sad and scary times for consumer unfortunetly .


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## yogurt_21 (Aug 20, 2018)

without performance numbers I have no idea what to make of the prices. On the one hand the 1070 ,1080, and 1080 Ti launched at 379$, 549$, and 699$ respectively 

On the other hand direct competition has been scarce, vega 64 launched and simply matched the performance of the GTX 1080, which was a year old at the time. 

So it's not like they're scared of what AMD will roll out with. As long as they can out compete their 2 year old lineup significantly they can reach those prices. 

OF course if they say only come out 30-40% higher, People may choose to sli the 2 year old stuff instead.


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## the54thvoid (Aug 20, 2018)

Fluffmeister said:


> Yep, a business at the top of their game.



As much as I like my own cards since my dual 780ti's (then Kingpin 980ti, then 1080ti), this isn't cool. Nvidia's pricing has become a terrible joke. I'm sure people will buy it. But that doesn't excuse it. They've lost income from the drop in mining sales, so is this the response? There comes a point where folk need to question the brand. At £1000/$1000, this is pushing the card so far out of the reach of so many.
If I wasn't bound to a keyboard and mouse from two decades of gaming. I'd buy a console.

If any Nvidia rep is out there: not fucking cool man, not fucking cool


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## Upgrayedd (Aug 20, 2018)

AMD please have a counter. Nvidia pricing is way out of hand. Should GPU prices really have doubled over 2 generations?


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## Somethingnew (Aug 20, 2018)

So small conclusion rtx 2070 is 499 $ , gtx 1070 was 379 $ so its basicly 32 % increase in price , if performance gains would be similar , the basically cost per frame would be the same , after almost 3 years of waiting , we would pay the same amount of money , i wouldn't call that progress , or maybe being greedy , especially considering tdp increase , the same amount of memory etc , on the higher end models the price increase is similar , so basically we are screwed as consumers , if the price increase would be similar we would pay the same amount of money per frame . And in case of rtx 2080 ti , the price increase is even more pronouced almost 50 % , so let's assume it's 40 % faster than gtx 1080 ti , then we would be paying even more per frame than in 2016 , to be honest i am dissapointed with that pricing .

Soon pc gaming experience with high end graphics could be very expensive , especially if nvidia continue that price hiking trend .I hope there will be some competition on the market of high end gaming cards, otherwise ,soon flaghsip nvidia cards for gaming could end up in 2000 $ marks , and that's scary as fuck as pc gamer enthusiast .


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## pat-roner (Aug 20, 2018)

Chloe Price said:


> Here in Finland the prices are very interesting.
> 
> RTX 2070 659eur
> RTX 2080 869eur
> ...



Especially when you need a 4k 144hz monitor to take advantage of it and that's not cheap either.


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## kastriot (Aug 20, 2018)

Well who has money will buy it, who hasn't will buy 2nd hand cards and do loop..


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## TheOne (Aug 20, 2018)

I don't expect any AIB to touch MSRP for the first 6 months.


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## dir_d (Aug 20, 2018)

They are about 50 dollars off MSRP if you look at newegg


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## noel_fs (Aug 20, 2018)

medi01 said:


>


Instead of laughing go produce your own gpu hehe!


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## TheOne (Aug 20, 2018)

dir_d said:


> They are about 50 dollars off MSRP if you look at newegg



MSRP is $700 for the 2080 and $1000 for the 2080 Ti.


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## Fluffmeister (Aug 20, 2018)

the54thvoid said:


> As much as I like my own cards since my dual 780ti's (then Kingpin 980ti, then 1080ti), this isn't cool. Nvidia's pricing has become a terrible joke. I'm sure people will buy it. But that doesn't excuse it. They've lost income from the drop in mining sales, so is this the response? There comes a point where folk need to question the brand. At £1000/$1000, this is pushing the card so far out of the reach of so many.
> If I wasn't bound to a keyboard and mouse from two decades of gaming. I'd buy a console.
> 
> If any Nvidia rep is out there: not fucking cool man, not fucking cool



I hear ya fella, that's why I'm using a second hand GTX 980 TI, you are preaching to the converted. We would all love the cards to be cheaper, but if the market laps them up then they aren't priced too high unfortunately.

I'm certainly interested to see how the 2070 pans out though, as like a lot of others it is the most realistic choice for me.


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## TheOne (Aug 20, 2018)

They are either going to push gamers down a tier or away, and if this continues they'll become like Apple with high prices and a small, but lucrative fan base.


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## Octopuss (Aug 20, 2018)

What does "SEP price" mean?


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## GhostRyder (Aug 20, 2018)

Well, this is what happens when people get all attached to one Brand.  Now we have a monopoly for probably at least another generation or two so these prices will be the norm.  Waiting on reviews, but will probably buy a 2080ti.

Gotta admit though, that dual fan cooler is pretty sleek in my book!

Can’t find a single card btw at $999...

Also anyone seen a white card?


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## HTC (Aug 20, 2018)

Vayra86 said:


> Buyer's remorse in 3.2.1....
> 
> Pre ordering without any knowledge of performance. I'm amazed by some people. And not in a good way



Agreed.

All i saw were *claims* of performance for *future games that can take advantage of it* but what about all other games? I saw no mention of any performance numbers over current cards in games already launched.

*It's premature to go ahead and make purchases based on this information alone:* wait for benches when those become available, and then decide to go ahead with purchasing or not.

Sure: it looks quite impressive and for the games that support it, i'm sure RTX line of cards will have a lot more performance then current top 1080Ti but, as DX12 and Vulkan have taught us, *just because a newer technology promises more performance in future games, doesn't mean that technology will take off right away*, and i expect several years before this technology is in full use.

That said, the future for AMD's graphics division looks grim ... unless they come up with some kind of Ryzen-esque graphics architecture, in terms of IPC uplift.


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## dir_d (Aug 20, 2018)

TheOne said:


> MSRP is $700 for the 2080 and $1000 for the 2080 Ti.


EVGA has a 2080 for 750 on Newegg. 50 dollars over MSRP


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## TheOne (Aug 20, 2018)

dir_d said:


> EVGA has a 2080 for 750 on Newegg. 50 dollars over MSRP



Sorry, I misunderstood what you said, I thought you meant it was $50 below MSRP.


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## bug (Aug 20, 2018)

dir_d said:


> EVGA has a 2080 for 750 on Newegg. 50 dollars over MSRP


That's got to be the lowest preorder markup I have seen in a while 
Hopefully now that mining has moved past GPUs, we'll start seeing prices below MSRP again. Otherwise these things are pretty pricey.


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## ensabrenoir (Aug 20, 2018)

.....yeah yeah yeah....PRICES HORRIBLE...(shifting funds form college accounts canceling wife credit cards and yeah dental insurance is overrated -ordering 2 lol)


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## Ravenmaster (Aug 20, 2018)

Dick move nvidia. Price gouging on their own website 1 hour after the presentation...


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## Prima.Vera (Aug 21, 2018)

Two words I have to say to the shitty d*$k head Huang Jensen: F$#K YOU!! you greedy bastard!
And for the people pre-ordering the 2080Ti like it's a PC game or something...yeah, I guess a sucker is born every minute and because of those people, those callous companies are exploiting us in such a way! /rant




Vayra86 said:


> Buyer's remorse in 3.2.1....
> 
> Pre ordering without any knowledge of performance. I'm amazed by some people. And not in a good way


I know, right?


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## Manu_PT (Aug 21, 2018)

Time to keep my GTX1060 i5 8400 rig for e-sports titles, indies, retro gaming and RTS.

AAA from now on will be on a console, PS4 Pro or Xbox One X (or maybe PS5 or Xbox 2). PC high-end market going Apple style. No thanks, I´m not willing to pay this type of money for that.

Congratulations Nvidia for making Pc high-end market a luxury and niche thing.


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## Aquinus (Aug 21, 2018)

the54thvoid said:


> As much as I like my own cards since my dual 780ti's (then Kingpin 980ti, then 1080ti), this isn't cool. Nvidia's pricing has become a terrible joke. I'm sure people will buy it. But that doesn't excuse it. They've lost income from the drop in mining sales, so is this the response? There comes a point where folk need to question the brand. At £1000/$1000, this is pushing the card so far out of the reach of so many.
> If I wasn't bound to a keyboard and mouse from two decades of gaming. I'd buy a console.
> 
> If any Nvidia rep is out there: not fucking cool man, not fucking cool


It's one of the reasons why I can't, in good conscience, buy a nVidia card. I already have an issue with drivers in the Linux eco-system and their blatantly anti open-source approach but, the price is unrealistic for the typical consumer aside from the moral implications of their Linux drivers. I'm willing to overlook the driver issue if the price was right and it clearly isn't.

Edit: It almost makes me want to buy a Vega 64 as an act of defiance.


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## GhostRyder (Aug 21, 2018)

Prima.Vera said:


> Two words I have to say to the shitty d*$k head Huang Jensen: F$#K YOU!! you greedy bastard!
> And for the people pre-ordering the 2080Ti like it's a PC game or something...yeah, I guess a sucker is born every minute and because of those people, those callous companies are exploiting us in such a way! /rant
> 
> 
> ...


I agree, who preorders a video card lol.  I mean we have no idea how good its going to be and for all we know it will only be a small bit better than the previous gen for a huge price.  We should be waiting for reviews first.


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## oxidized (Aug 21, 2018)

GhostRyder said:


> Well, this is what happens when people get all attached to one Brand.  Now we have a monopoly for probably at least another generation or two so these prices will be the norm.  Waiting on reviews, but will probably buy a 2080ti.
> 
> Gotta admit though, that dual fan cooler is pretty sleek in my book!
> 
> ...



Well it's not like these people woke up some day and decided to get attached to nvidia. Nvidia produced the better product for several years, and this is where it has gotten them + fanboyism.


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## dir_d (Aug 21, 2018)

I have the 2080 on pre-order until i can find some performance metrics. If it is not good i will cancel the pre-order and go for a 1080TI.


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## GhostRyder (Aug 21, 2018)

oxidized said:


> Well it's not like these people woke up some day and decided to get attached to nvidia. Nvidia produced the better product for several years, and this is where it has gotten them + fanboyism.


I was mostly referencing before for instance the Fury series got released.  There was a time where things shifted around and things were good.  I think after seeing it first hand many things influenced one side to stay dominant even when it should have shifted and this is the result.  Does it bother me?  Yes because its boring to have no options except what color cooler I want but as far as I am concerned I will keep purchasing Nvidia until AMD has something worth while on the high end then I will look again.  I am not saying AMD is not to blame for this (Because obviously they made stupid decisions multiple times throughout the years and are probably mostly responsible for their own failures) but a certain chunk of the community helped (like the people who like every comment that in the slightest disagrees with me lol).  

I just will wait for reviews on the 2080ti and for when the price goes back to around MSRP (Plus a white card comes out).


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## oxidized (Aug 21, 2018)

GhostRyder said:


> I was mostly referencing before for instance the Fury series got released.  There was a time where things shifted around and things were good.  I think after seeing it first hand many things influenced one side to stay dominant even when it should have shifted and this is the result.  Does it bother me?  Yes because its boring to have no options except what color cooler I want but as far as I am concerned I will keep purchasing Nvidia until AMD has something worth while on the high end then I will look again.  I am not saying AMD is not to blame for this (Because obviously they made stupid decisions multiple times throughout the years and are probably mostly responsible for their own failures) but a certain chunk of the community helped (like the people who like every comment that in the slightest disagrees with me lol).
> 
> I just will wait for reviews on the 2080ti and for when the price goes back to around MSRP (Plus a white card comes out).



Well, Vega was a pretty big misstep...Probably the biggest in some time. Besides i know how you feel, having no choice is pretty bad, hopefully AMD will do something at some point...


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## Upgrayedd (Aug 21, 2018)

Nvidia stock at $25 = $330 GTX 970 midrange

Nvidia stock at $250 = $600 RTX 2070 "midrange"


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## Xzibit (Aug 21, 2018)

Octopuss said:


> What does "SEP price" mean?



Suggested Entry Price

I think the goal was to have FEs at a higher price. AIB/OEM reference (blower style) card at the SEP and aftermarket AIB cards above FE prices.

Like 10 series with a higher starting price.


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## btarunr (Aug 21, 2018)

Added a table with some interesting perspective. Sorry for the ugliness.


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## GoldenX (Aug 21, 2018)

We need competition now. This is the same Core iX/FX shit, but on GPUs.


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## mad1394 (Aug 21, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> We need competition now. This is the same Core iX/FX shit, but on GPUs.



Time to buy those radeon vega gpus boys. At least Vega pricing is close to MSRP nowadays


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## AlwaysHope (Aug 21, 2018)

"...it's a bloodbath in the absence of competition from AMD. "

& who's fault is that? oh that's right... silly incompetent poorly managed AMD even though they bought us Zen goodness to kick Intel's arse! 

But hey, having 80%+ of the GPU market according to latest steam hardware survey, most certainly shows that bribing game devs pays off...


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## Tomgang (Aug 21, 2018)

Yikes. With those prices, my gtx 1080 ti stays right where it is now in my pc. 2080 ti not worfh it at those prices. 

Better wait for some competision to come that can lower prices.


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## ZoneDymo (Aug 21, 2018)

thanks to everyone who will be buying this, vote with your wallet, support price hikes!


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## the54thvoid (Aug 21, 2018)

ZoneDymo said:


> thanks to everyone who will be buying this, vote with your wallet, support price hikes!



It's been put on at such a premium, the performance needs to be astronomical, even then,it's still just a graphics card. Funny thing is, no performance leaks yet...

I would love to see real world (current game) benchmark numbers. It's going to be jaw dropping or pant wettingly mediocre.

Nvidia definitely lost me this time round. Irony is, after Vega's initial pricing, I can see whatever comes next from AMD slotting in at 750 bucks at 1080ti performance.


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## Gungar (Aug 21, 2018)

Tomorrow said:


> Wow so many ingnorant people still keep posting pre order prices here. Get trough your thick skulls. These are PRE ORDER prices you see on regional Nvidia websites.
> These are the real prices:
> 
> 2080Ti: 999$/1050€
> ...



That's the lowest priced ones. For 999 dollars you get a 2080ti with the blower cooler that can't cool the card properly... Expect prices from asus/msi/evga etc... to be around 100 dollars above those prices.


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## Prima.Vera (Aug 21, 2018)

I miss those days when AMD release the HD 5870 for 370$ and beat everything nGreedia had at that time, both performance and price wise. It would be a miracle for them to pull something similar now....


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## Tomorrow (Aug 21, 2018)

Gungar said:


> That's the lowest priced ones. For 999 dollars you get a 2080ti with the blower cooler that can't cool the card properly... Expect prices from asus/msi/evga etc... to be around 100 dollars above those prices.


I don't care. I have high end heatsink+2x 120mm fans i will slap on it. As far as i'm concerned it may well come without a cooler.
The heatsink is Raijintek Morpheus II. I own Zotac GTX 1080 AMP. Not a bad aftermarket cooler but with this heatsink i dropped temps from 84c to 60c under load (overclocked too).
Im pretty sure it will surpass every single aftermarket cooling solution that AIB's come up with. So i don't really care about their RGB infested monstrosities.

Well it seems Internet is on a frenzy again with pitchforks and blindfolds. So much BS flying around it could block out the sun.

Last time this happened was when ME:A launched, then when SW:BFII launched. People did not even care about the underlying game. They just went along with the bashing because it was "in" and "cool" at the moment.

Complaint NR1: Too expensive. Well is someone holding a gun to your head asking to buy the fastest GPU? Do you even have a system to drive it without bottlenecking? And no - a Core i3 and a 1080p monitor does not count.

Also everyone is citing the pre order prices for FE models as the end all be all price. AIB models WILL be cheaper. For example 1080Ti MSRP was 699$. In my country the cheapest one is 760€ which is reasonable. And not it's not a blower model. So aside from the initial month or two the prices will be near MSRP which is OK.

Complaint NR2: No benchmarks for rasterization perf. This is true to a point. They did run UE4 Infiltrator demo on a 2080Ti. It achieved 78fps vs ~35fps for 1080Ti. That's a 2x increase.

Complaint NR3: Cost per frame is same as Pascal. I fail to see the point of this metric. In the end you are getting better performance. And if you're so concerned about it then grab a used Pascal for cheaper. No one is forcing you to buy the latest and greatest. I swear sometime people think companies are running charity funds or something. Do you expect them to give 2080Ti away for 299$ or something?


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 21, 2018)

Jesus these prices for some lights, reflections and shadows...I hope 2080 will be at least 15% better than 1080 Ti in actual FPS otherwise these prices are crazy


----------



## GoldenX (Aug 21, 2018)

Tomorrow said:


> I don't care. I have high end heatsink+2x 120mm fans i will slap on it. As far as i'm concerned it may well come without a cooler.
> The heatsink is Raijintek Morpheus II. I own Zotac GTX 1080 AMP. Not a bad aftermarket cooler but with this heatsink i dropped temps from 84c to 60c under load (overclocked too).
> Im pretty sure it will surpass every single aftermarket cooling solution that AIB's come up with. So i don't really care about their RGB infested monstrosities.
> 
> ...



The problem is the constant push for higher prices. If this continues, you will pay 3-5 thousands for consumer graphics in a few years. Is that normal to you?


----------



## bug (Aug 21, 2018)

Ravenmaster said:


> Dick move nvidia. Price gouging on their own website 1 hour after the presentation...
> 
> View attachment 105698


This is not their price gouging. It's your reading comprehension failing you.


----------



## Nkd (Aug 21, 2018)

gasolina said:


> he said from the infiltrator test the 1080ti could do like 3x fps and the 2080ti around 78 which i believe double though, so best case scenario if this is double the per 1080ti ( 650$ and sli set up should be 1300-1400$) i would glady to pay up to 1500$ for the 2080ti . on theory the nvlink would double the vram so kinda sweet, i'm placing my bet here with a distributor to get my hand on a pair of 2080ti hopefully i would not turn out to be awful and really looking forward to overclocking these guys.



its not going to be twice as fast as 1080ti. You can book it on that one. Its all ray tracing number, you are paying for ray tracing thats it. Unless they increase ipc by 75% on the cores you are not getting double the performance of 1080ti. You wonder why he didn't give exact numbers for games? They did it with pascal, so why not with Turing?



Tomorrow said:


> Wow so many ingnorant people still keep posting pre order prices here. Get trough your thick skulls. These are PRE ORDER prices you see on regional Nvidia websites.
> These are the real prices:
> 
> 2080Ti: 999$/1050€
> ...



comes a guy who doesn't understand it himself and tells other people. Founders edition is 1199 get that through your thick skull lol. AIB's are going to be competing with founders edition. You will find a blower style a few months from now at 999 may be if you are lucky. Same old compete with founder edition price game.


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## bug (Aug 21, 2018)

Nkd said:


> its not going to be twice as fast as 1080ti. You can book it on that one. Its all ray tracing number, you are paying for ray tracing thats it. Unless they increase ipc by 75% on the cores you are not getting double the performance of 1080ti. You wonder why he didn't give exact numbers for games? They did it with pascal, so why not with Turing?


You do understand that when you do ray tracing, you don't need to do SSAO or reflections anymore, don't you? So yes, it's entirely possible (though at this point dependent on the title/demo) to use those resources you just freed up and be faster overall.


----------



## Nkd (Aug 21, 2018)

bug said:


> You do understand that when you do ray tracing, you don't need to do SSAO or reflections anymore, don't you? So yes, it's entirely possible (though at this point dependent on the title/demo) to use those resources you just freed up and be faster overall.



give me in game performance. I don't care about coulda woulda shoulda, and people making up their own justification for their purchases. Do you really believe if the card was twice as fast across the board in games nvidia would not have put that on the graph like they did with pascal? Yea they would. But they didn't so Its looking more like its all ray tracing stuff. It won't be faster in any games but will be able to ray trace. So you are getting card with ray trace and if you don't care buy the old gen. As simple as that.


----------



## Tomorrow (Aug 21, 2018)

Nkd said:


> comes a guy who doesn't understand it himself and tells other people. Founders edition is 1199 get that through your thick skull lol. AIB's are going to be competing with founders edition. You will find a blower style a few months from now at 999 may be if you are lucky. Same old compete with founder edition price game.


Who the F cares about FE?

MSRP/SEP is what matters. It's pointless to link or watch current prices. These are ALL preorders. Once actual units start shipping and early adopters buy their share the stock stabilizes and prices will fall near MSRP/SEP. Happened with Pascal and will happen with Turing.


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## Xaled (Aug 21, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> I’m getting





xkm1948 said:


> I am pre-ordering right meow



nVidia's bots in action.


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## bug (Aug 21, 2018)

Nkd said:


> give me in game performance. I don't care about coulda woulda shoulda, and people making up their own justification for their purchases. Do you really believe if the card was twice as fast across the board in games nvidia would not have put that on the graph like they did with pascal? Yea they would. But they didn't so Its looking more like its all ray tracing stuff. It won't be faster in any games but will be able to ray trace. So you are getting card with ray trace and if you don't care buy the old gen. As simple as that.


If in game performance is what you're after, may I kindly ask you to spare us your comments until such data becomes available? TIA


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## techy1 (Aug 21, 2018)

for those special* people that says "look it says 999$, almost like gtx 1080 ti, why u all cry?": 
1) 999 > 699 (prove me wrong); 
2) if in "1)" you did prove me wrong (cuz you special*) - then "999" will probably never gonna happen, not even for asus blower, because special* people like you do buy out as we speak 1250$ both BP and FE cards without seeing any benchmarks or reviews; 
3) F the previous "1)" and "2)" - you still more special* and prove me that it will cost 999 and 999=699.
well guess what - 2.5 years have passed from previous gen and in that case you will get the same price performance - is that a good thing? if that logic is true then gtx 1080 should cost 1700$, because gtx 480 (from year 2010 with initial price 499$) is 360% slower, so gtx 1080 price should be 360% higher, right? - no thanks, but I do not want that kind of "advancements in technology", I will pass


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## adulaamin (Aug 21, 2018)

Looks like I'll be holding on to my 1080 TIs for quite a while and I may be buying my first ever console soon.


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## blobster21 (Aug 21, 2018)

I won't help this stock holders orgy at my expense. Game over !


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## mobiuus (Aug 21, 2018)

been a nvidia fan for decade...but HELL if i'm gonna pay for that shit... what do they think we are?? suckers!!???
i have got the money but i would rather die then pay at these prices...
my msi 1080 gaming x stays where it is
..and ray tracing, a long way from fully ray tracing rendered scenes, until then this generation rtx is gonna be weak and obsolete...


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## Durvelle27 (Aug 21, 2018)

Xaled said:


> nVidia's bots in action.


A bot


----------



## ShurikN (Aug 21, 2018)

Boy, am I happy I don't have to build a new PC any time soon. And by the time I get back to my home country, AMD will release something compelling on 7nm.


----------



## Prima.Vera (Aug 21, 2018)

So they pulled another GTX 8800 series prices. 
I guess some things never change...


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## enxo218 (Aug 21, 2018)

No thanks nvidia proving once again that last gen market is where to consider


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## bug (Aug 21, 2018)

Prima.Vera said:


> So they pulled another GTX 8800 series prices.
> I guess some things never change...


Were you seriously expecting anything else? Do you know a case where somebody had a product head and shoulders above competition and then released something even better at reasonable prices?
These things have a huge die, that alone means expensive.


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## mobiuus (Aug 21, 2018)

bug said:


> These things have a huge die, that alone means expensive.


are u 4 REAL !!!??


----------



## iO (Aug 21, 2018)

bug said:


> Were you seriously expecting anything else? Do you know a case where somebody had a product head and shoulders above competition and then released something even better at reasonable prices?
> These things have a huge die, that alone means expensive.


30-50 FPS @ 1080p with a 1250€ GPU in Shadow of the Tomb Raider doesnt really scream "head and shoulders above competition"...
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Grafi...ormance-in-Shadow-of-the-Tomb-Raider-1263244/


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## bug (Aug 21, 2018)

DarkStalker said:


> are u 4 REAL !!!??


Very much so.


----------



## R0H1T (Aug 21, 2018)

bug said:


> Very much so.


So do you have numbers, as in how big is the difference, to account for >50% pricing inflation?


----------



## jormungand (Aug 21, 2018)

Are they making the 10x series more price appealing so they can empty their stock??? Those prices are no joke is just a way to mock of their base buyers(gamers) wtf. Vote with your wallet guys.


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## bug (Aug 21, 2018)

iO said:


> 30-50 FPS @ 1080p with a 1250€ GPU in Shadow of the Tomb Raider doesnt really scream "head and shoulders above competition"...
> http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Grafi...ormance-in-Shadow-of-the-Tomb-Raider-1263244/


No, but this:
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Radeon_RX_Vega_64/31.html
and this:
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Radeon_RX_Vega_64/32.html
do.



R0H1T said:


> So do you have numbers, as in how big is the difference, to account for >50% pricing inflation?


TU102 is 754sq mm (source: https://www.anandtech.com/show/13240/nvidia-gamescom-2018-keynote-live-blog).
GP102 is "merely" 471sq mm.
And the price does not increase linearly (unfortunately for everyone).


----------



## phill (Aug 21, 2018)

Roll on cheap 1080 Ti's is all I will be saying..  That is all


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## John Naylor (Aug 21, 2018)

US Inflation to July 2018 since ...

June 2016 (1070 = 5.00%
May 2016 (1080) = 5.00%
March 2017 (1080Ti ) = 3.00%

New tariffs on goods imported from China = 25%

Take the $379 price of the 1070 and add the 25% tariff = $473.75 x 1.05 = $497.44
Compared with the SEP cost of $499, it's an extra $1.56

Take the $599 price of the 1080 and add the 25% tariff = $748.75 x 1.05 = $786.19
Compared with the SEP cost of $699, it's a freakin bargain at $699, $87 cheaper than I'd expect.

Take the $699 price of the 1080 Ti  and add the 25% tariff = $899.96 x 1.03 = $926.96
Compared with the SEP cost of $699, it's a leap at $999,but by no means shocking  $72 more than we have a right to expect.

However, until we see the performance numbers, in no position to consider how warranted the increases are.




TheOne said:


> NVIDIA pulling the MSRP vs FE pricing again , and changing the price scheme, now the x70 is the x80, the x80 is the x80 Ti, and the x80 Ti is the Titan.  If I find a 2070 for the MSRP I might buy one, though $500 is still insane for a single piece of hardware intended only for gaming, but never going to pay more.



That started with the 70xx series.  When they realized how much faster their cards were than the competition, they lsid the line down and the 780 matched the original leaked specs of the 770 .... the 780 design was placed on a shelf where it sat until th 290x came along.




bug said:


> The frightening thing is, the 2060 could be pushing $400



The 2070 is $379 ... Only the "I must be the 1st guy on my block to have the new shiny thing" crowd buys FEs



mad1394 said:


> Time to buy those radeon vega gpus boys. At least Vega pricing is close to MSRP nowadays



It's still not enough to entice any significant sales... but don't forget to factor in a) the price of the bigger PSU b) the extra case fan to move the heat out, and and c) the increased power costs over 3 years.


----------



## Somethingnew (Aug 21, 2018)

John Naylor said:


> Inflation to July 2018 since ...
> 
> June 2016 (1070 = 5.00%
> May 2016 (1080) = 5.00%
> ...


Are you aware that these prices are also before taxes ? So why are adding 25 % tariff ? The same would be for rtx 2070 so it would be 499 $ plus 25 % tariff for example . So your point here is wrong , the rtx 2070 is 32 % more expensive than gtx 1070 before taxes .


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## Prince Valiant (Aug 21, 2018)

John Naylor said:


> The 2070 is $379 ... Only the "I must be the 1st guy on my block to have the new shiny thing" crowd buys FEs


You've seen the chart wrong or mistyped. SEP price for the 2070 is $500 and the FE is $600.


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## Xaled (Aug 21, 2018)

John Naylor said:


> US Inflation to July 2018 since ...
> 
> June 2016 (1070 = 5.00%
> May 2016 (1080) = 5.00%
> ...



Except prices are not actually 499, 699 and 999. They will start from 599, 799 and 1199 

So your whole math is useless


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## Somethingnew (Aug 21, 2018)

Exactly , even if we would compare rtx 2070 to gtx 1070 sep prices which would be 499 $ , vs 379 $ , the price increase is big , and i doubt rtx 2070 would be near gtx 1080 ti performance level , since rtx is 2304 cores , and clock increase is negligible , it would probably in gtx 1080 level which already is at 449 $ , so after such long wait is in my opinion big dissapointement , but let's wait for reviews , but i doubt it will be even close to gtx 1080 ti in performance .


----------



## bug (Aug 21, 2018)

Xaled said:


> Except prices are not actually 499, 699 and 999. They will start from 599, 799 and 1199
> 
> So your whole math is useless


You still haven't figured out one set of prices is for Founder Edition cards? The fail is strong with you.


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## GoldenX (Aug 21, 2018)

Funders or not, that sets the bar for the custom cards.


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## Xaled (Aug 21, 2018)

bug said:


> You still haven't figured out one set of prices is for Founder Edition cards? The fails is strong with you.




no, the newegg price of stock Asus 2080 ti is even more than that 



those prices maybe valid for bundles only. but no cards are listed for such prices yet. i get the point of the FE now. increase the lowest price. The evil nvidia does nothing for good. all new so called techs, renovations, editions are just excuses for price increases.


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## bug (Aug 21, 2018)

Well, no cards are released yet. There's always a surcharge for preorders.


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## Prince Valiant (Aug 21, 2018)

A blower card for $1210 and it's out of stock  .


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## Slizzo (Aug 21, 2018)

phill said:


> Roll on cheap 1080 Ti's is all I will be saying..  That is all



I doubt 1080Ti will be any cheaper for a while seeing as the cheapest a 2080Ti can be is $1k.  I have my doubts that a 2304 CUDA core 2070 can beat a 3584 CUDA core 1080Ti in traditional workloads.


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## phill (Aug 21, 2018)

I'm currently looking about for £500 1080 Ti's..  Mined or not, bit of a bargain


----------



## garrick (Aug 21, 2018)

jessie james used a gun when he robbed pepole


----------



## Caring1 (Aug 21, 2018)

garrick said:


> jessie james used a gun when he robbed pepole


But snake oil salesmen just sold promises with smooth talking.


----------



## bug (Aug 21, 2018)

garrick said:


> jessie james used a gun when he robbed pepole


He also didn't give people a choice. What's your point?

Yes, these prices are through the roof. At the same time, they are likely justified. Can we all agree on this and close this thread?
Because 5 pages of whining the cards are too expensive... is just a deja-vu of pretty much every other high-end gaming card release.


----------



## Somethingnew (Aug 21, 2018)

Are you really ok with that pricing ? I could understand small price hike . But these prices are just like robbery .


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## GoldenX (Aug 21, 2018)

Man, so many Nvidia shills defending stupid pricing.


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## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 21, 2018)

bug said:


> He also didn't give people a choice. What's your point?
> 
> Yes, these prices are through the roof. At the same time, they are likely justified. Can we all agree on this and close this thread?
> Because 5 pages of whining the cards are too expensive... is just a deja-vu of pretty much every other high-end gaming card release.



I understand your point of view in regards to this, but I would not agree with the fact that we should just swallow these and don't complain about it...as far as we know now nothing has been proven we don't really have any statistics to show that this is a fair price for this technology. Imo the "revolutionary" changes are not that important for the gaming industry...rays and shadows are often ignored by the average gamer and also cut down in the game settings so to ask for that price when you haven't actually proven the performance increase in FPS (what actually matters in games) since the last gen it's a bit too much even by today standards. So yes I think people should moan and argue about this as it may change somebody mind about blindly pre-ordering stuff. I was going to pre-order if I had compelling data to justify it...but excuse me, nVidia is feeding us some bullsh*t right now and I think this needs to be stopped one way or another


----------



## Somethingnew (Aug 21, 2018)

There is something else that worries me.  Nvidia put all attention at ray tracking . While real world performance wasn't a topic at all , no tflops numbers , no game comparison numbers . If performance increase would be big , don't you all think they would share that with us , for example during Pascal debut they disclosed that numbers . That makes me worried that performance increase wouldn't be spectacular , and if you consider a price to performance ratio it's going to be dissipointment at least that's my opinion , considering that Pascal is almost 3 years old architecture .


----------



## DeOdView (Aug 21, 2018)

Yeap!  I have seen them all...  the date the top consumer GPU is more than 3X the price of the top consumer CPU (2700X)!

OK, I'll get one... but...
Hey NV... how much my arm traded for?

Back to post:
Seriously, is this some kind of papers launch?  It's nothing more than bells and whistles..  choo... chooo...


----------



## bug (Aug 21, 2018)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> I understand your point of view in regards to this, but I would not agree with the fact that we should just swallow these and don't complain about it...as far as we know now nothing has been proven we don't really have any statistics to show that this is a fair price for this technology. Imo the "revolutionary" changes are not that important for the gaming industry...rays and shadows are often ignored by the average gamer and also cut down in the game settings so to ask for that price when you haven't actually proven the performance increase in FPS (what actually matters in games) since the last gen it's a bit too much even by today standards. So yes I think people should moan and argue about this as it may change somebody mind about blindly pre-ordering stuff. I was going to pre-order if I had compelling data to justify it...but excuse me, nVidia is feeding us some bullsh*t right now and I think this needs to be stopped one way or another


I've posted above: the silicon is huge, that is always expensive.

The real puzzler for me it that one week ago we got out Threadripper2 review (another large die, albeit made up of smaller ones) and when its price was listed as a con, many people argued that was unfair, because the price needs to be read "in a context" or that considering its use case, the price is ok. This week, pretty much the same people tell me otherwise.

Also, you seem to have absolutely no handle on ray tracing.


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## Xaled (Aug 21, 2018)

Whenever nvidia release a so-called new techonolgy/segment, that means there would be a price increase

and all of these techonolgy/cards where already available things but nvidia just renamed them. Cuda is a marketing name of gpu shaders. Titan was the best single gpu that was priced for 650$ at most. Gsync is simpley adaptive sync. so the rtx/ray tracing thing is just another lie in this series of lies.


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## GoldenX (Aug 21, 2018)

This isn't a Quadro, don't put Quadro prices on it.


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## Somethingnew (Aug 21, 2018)

bug said:


> I've posted above: the silicon is huge, that is always expensive.
> 
> The real puzzler for me it that one week ago we got out Threadripper2 review (another large die, albeit made up of smaller ones) and when its price was listed as a con, many people argued that was unfair, because the price needs to be read "in a context" or that considering its use case, the price is ok. This week, pretty much the same people tell me otherwise.
> 
> Also, you seem to have absolutely no handle on ray tracing.


Again you are missing a point . Threadripper 2 is for prosumers . If that prices were for quadro lineup , or for prosumers i would be alright with that , but for god's sake these are gaming chips . Isn't that sick , I understand that the chip is big , but Thale into account that 12 nm is basically improved 16 mm finfet , so there aren't many defective wafers , and price for mm2 is much lower than while 16 mm debuted . Besides there is 7 nm taping out soon ,so I would call 12 nm outdated . 10 mm is already almost for a year in phones soc .  I am not saying it wouldn't be good cards but I think it's overpriced piece of tech , almost like being robbed by Nvidia , since there is no real real competition Nvidia is being to greedy


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 21, 2018)

bug said:


> I've posted above: the silicon is huge, that is always expensive.
> 
> The real puzzler for me it that one week ago we got out Threadripper2 review (another large die, albeit made up of smaller ones) and when its price was listed as a con, many people argued that was unfair, because the price needs to be read "in a context" or that considering its use case, the price is ok. This week, pretty much the same people tell me otherwise.
> 
> Also, you seem to have absolutely no handle on ray tracing.



I've seen the live conference when it was presented, have you seen anything else? Do you actually have any other data to judge this on...if yes please let me know, I might be wrong...I've seen lots of people including famous IT youtubers being reserved and reluctant on these as we should be given the few info that we've been given...you can call it revolutionary man but others have opinions as well and this is a forum which it's made exactly for that...


----------



## bug (Aug 21, 2018)

Somethingnew said:


> Again you are missing a point . Threadripper 2 is for prosumers . If that prices were for quadro lineup , or for prosumers i would be alright with that , but for god's sake these are gaming chips . Isn't that sick , I understand that the chip is big , but Thale into account that 12 nm is basically improved 16 mm finfet , so there aren't many defective wafers , and price for mm2 is much lower than while 16 mm debuted . Besides there is 7 nm taping out soon ,so I would call 12 nm outdated . 10 mm is already almost for a year in phones soc .  I am not saying it wouldn't be good cards but I think it's overpriced piece of tech , almost like being robbed by Nvidia , since there is no real real competition Nvidia is being to greedy


There aren't many defective wafers? You have a lot of catching up with how chips are made, grasshopper.


----------



## Somethingnew (Aug 21, 2018)

Out of curiousity . So you think these prices are alright ? I think they are just riddicoulus , Nvidia is taking advantage of no real competition and try to milk all of us . Unfortunately money are not growing on the trees. Almost 3 years of waiting and for flagship card the SEP price is almost 50 percent higher . The same amount of memory , outdated process , and even if the price increase would be in 40 percent range comparing gtx 1080 to to etc 2080 ti , then still we would end up paying more per frame after that long of a wait . Isn't there something wrong with that.  Then if the next flagship card would be 50 percent faster then it would cost 1500 $ .


----------



## bug (Aug 21, 2018)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> I've seen the live conference when it was presented, have you seen anything else? Do you actually have any other data to judge this on...if yes please let me know, I might be wrong...I've seen lots of people including famous IT youtubers being reserved and reluctant on these as we should be given the few info that we've been given...you can call it revolutionary man but others have opinions as well and this is a forum which it's made exactly for that...


Not sure what data you need. The die size is right in the presentation.
Anyone serious about graphics drools over ray tracing to the point they build server farms to do it. Probably this generation of hardware will not be great at ray tracing, but neither was the first Voodoo graphics accelerator (it wasn't even a video card) for 3D as we know it today.

In a nutshell, we get a feature that's the Holy Grail of lighting in an implementation that requires a ton of transistors and is therefore expensive. Nobody forces you to buy it, but would you rather not have it at all?
And to turn things around a little: if this catches on and AMD isn't on board, Polaris and Vega will start looking like really good days for their graphics division.



Somethingnew said:


> Out of curiousity . So you think these prices are alright ? I think they are just riddicoulus , Nvidia is taking advantage of no real competition and try to milk all of us . Unfortunately money are not growing on the trees. Almost 3 years of waiting and for flagship card the SEP price is almost 50 percent higher . The same amount of memory , outdated process , and even if the price increase would be in 40 percent range comparing gtx 1080 to to etc 2080 ti , then still we would end up paying more per frame after that long of a wait . Isn't there something wrong with that.  Then if the next flagship card would be 50 percent faster then it would cost 1500 $ .


I don't think any price over $300 is alright, I don't buy above that limit.
I'm just saying, big silicon is expensive and this silicon is really big. So this may not be entirely taking advantage of AMD's no-show, it could be at least partially justified. There are huge prices, but me moaning about them won't magically lower them.


----------



## Somethingnew (Aug 21, 2018)

Just to the point . We are paying for possible tech that could be used in future . While they aren't disclosed performance in games during presentation . Isn't that sketchy ? Considering that price increase , I don't know how anybody can defend that riddicoulus price increase , unless they are working for Nvidia or are shareholders . Gtx 980 to gtx 1080 . Check price increase then , it was small and performance increase was big , not to mention double the memory size . So why this time it's so big ? Simple answer is that Nvidia is abusing leading position .

Simple answer is don't buy new cards for that riddicoulus price unless you don't have to.  Just buy older generation , soon there will be 7 nm taping out .  Just vote as consumer.


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 21, 2018)

bug said:


> Not sure what data you need. The die size is right in the presentation.
> Anyone serious about graphics drools over ray tracing to the point they build server farms to do it. Probably this generation of hardware will not be great at ray tracing, but neither was the first Voodoo graphics accelerator (it wasn't even a video card) for 3D as we know it today.
> 
> In a nutshell, we get a feature that's the Holy Grail of lighting in an implementation that requires a ton of transistors and is therefore expensive. Nobody forces you to buy it, but would you rather not have it at all?
> ...



I understand that new tech comes with a price...but you're probably too excited as it is so obvious that there was not enough shown to justify this at this point in time...a few videos which ,for me and others, are purely not enough. Maybe your favourite thing in a game is light and shadows but I don't think the majority of gamers are thinking like you...if you could get your hands on the production cost of one unit and show it to me I would agree...but for now I see the same tactic that Apple uses. I totally agree that the lack of competition helps but this is quite bad for consumers and I think we should not just accept it easily


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## Prince Valiant (Aug 21, 2018)

Since when is the truth (these prices are bad at worst, questionable at best) moaning? Beating a dead horse at this point and all that but at least it's not speculation about the cost increase due to die size or whatever else when we don't know how that affects cost. Plus the regular gaming performance of these things is unknown and RT performance looks bad. If the 2080ti struggles with RT on in Tomb Raider how badly are the 2080 and 2070 going to perform, under 30FPS and <20FPS respectively?


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## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 21, 2018)

Prince Valiant said:


> Since when is the truth (these prices are bad at worst, questionable at best) moaning? Beating a dead horse at this point and all that but at least it's not speculation about the cost increase due to die size or whatever else when we don't know the regular gaming performance of these things and RT performance looks bad. If the 2080ti struggles with RT on in Tomb Raider how badly are the 2080 and 2070 going to perform, < 30FPS and <20FPS respectively?


That is not the final thing, see here:https://wccftech.com/tomb-raider-nvidia-rtx-gamescom-demo/

I agree that we need way more than these to accept that price.


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## Razrback16 (Aug 21, 2018)

Yep, not touching Turing at those prices, NVidia can keep 'em. I'll hang on to my 1080Ti cards for a while longer. Thing is, $ isn't even the issue for me. I'm appreciative to be in the bracket of gamers that are not limited by $, but there is such a thing as greed and price gouging that becomes out of control and to me, that's what this feels like, so I'm not biting on these.


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## rtwjunkie (Aug 21, 2018)

I’m not arguing for or against.  Technically against since I’m upgrading a gen behind to 1080 Ti.  

Yes, the prices are expensive.  But I would like everyone to stop and take a few minutes. Why are they high? Sure, some can be blamed on lack of decent high end competition. However:

Has anyone considered the cost of 10 years of R & D?  Does anyone know the cost of fabricating this large die?  Does anyone know what it costs to produce this card compared to previous generations?  

These are all factors which go into pricing.  Pricing is not made up in a vacuum.  Until you know these things, or are willing to take them into account, then complaining is just that: complaining.  

The goal of any manufacturer is to sell their product.  Price it too high and your inventory doesn’t sell.  The market will determine if these are priced too high to sell all the stock.  If it’s too high, they and AIB’s will adjust.  

I personally have found it too high, and have opted for Pascal.  Thanks for reading!


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## Somethingnew (Aug 21, 2018)

Everybody just check financial report from nvidia , then you will know when all that money that they would take from us will go , higher margin , more profit . No competition , equals much higher margins


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## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 21, 2018)

rtwjunkie said:


> I’m not arguing for or against.  Technically against since I’m upgrading a gen behind to 1080 Ti.
> 
> Yes, the prices are expensive.  But I would like everyone to stop and take a few minutes. Why are they high? Sure, some can be blamed on lack of decent high end competition. However:
> 
> ...



I incline to agree but to convince me that the prices are this high mostly because of the price of the technological evolution I need some numbers some compelling evidence...anyone can make that affirmation but do you have the behind the curtain information...I don't think so. AMD for one demonstrated that you can achieve great performance for a lower price (including lots of PCI-e lanes) with the Threadripper so we've seen this tactic with so many companies that have an advantage over the competition


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## rtwjunkie (Aug 21, 2018)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> anyone can make that affirmation but do you have the behind the curtain information...I don't think so


You’re right, I don’t have that info.  That’s why I posed that before people get out the pitchforks, they know that info.  Only with it can someone really complain they are being ripped off. Or it may absolve NV of any of those claims.  Who knows?  But to be an informed dissenter, one must first be informed...have information.


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## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 21, 2018)

rtwjunkie said:


> You’re right, I don’t have that info.  That’s why I posed that before people get out the pitchforks, they know that info.  Only with it can someone really complain they are being ripped off. Or it may absolve NV of any of those claims.  Who knows?  But to be an informed dissenter, one must first be informed...have information.


I agree, in this case though with such an achievement I would've expect nVidia to show more but I think that for marketing reasons they did not...I am not gonna insist with this anymore...I really appreciate your decision to not buy this gen but I don't agree that if the price is too high the product won't sell...if people are manupulated just enough to think that the price is correct then...but then again that is on them. I wish people can educate themselfs to make a better purchase that's all


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## mroofie (Aug 21, 2018)

This thread..


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## bug (Aug 21, 2018)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> I understand that new tech comes with a price...but you're probably too excited as it is so obvious that there was not enough shown to justify this at this point in time...a few videos which ,for me and others, are purely not enough. Maybe your favourite thing in a game is light and shadows but I don't think the majority of gamers are thinking like you...if you could get your hands on the production cost of one unit and show it to me I would agree...but for now I see the same tactic that Apple uses. I totally agree that the lack of competition helps but this is quite bad for consumers and I think we should not just accept it easily


Yes, I know you're dumber than average, you keep reminding us. Overclocking a CPU to world-record highs does nothing to you, a technique Hollywood spends millions to harness brought almost to mortal realm does nothing to you (hint: the human eye is way more sensitive to luminance than it is to chrominance). Ever considered taking up knitting, maybe?


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## Tomorrow (Aug 21, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> Man, so many Nvidia shills defending stupid pricing.


A few people arguing against a mass. Conclusion = so many shills. Seems about right. /sarcasm


GoldenX said:


> This isn't a Quadro, don't put Quadro prices on it.


1200$ is entry level Quadro price. High end Quadro goes for 10000$. Compared to that 2080Ti OK.


Somethingnew said:


> 12 nm is basically improved 16 mm finfet , so there aren't many defective wafers , and price for mm2 is much lower than while 16 mm debuted . Besides there is 7 nm taping out soon ,so I would call 12 nm outdated . 10 mm is already almost for a year in phones soc .


The bigger the die size the less dies can be manufactured on a single wafer. A single defect an ruin a big chunk of the wafer. This for example is why Intel's HEDT chips are so damn expensive too compared to small AMD ones. Also GPU's are one of the most complex thing to produce on any given node. Much less on a cutting edge 7nm which is OK for small low power mobile SoC's at this time but not yet viable for mass producing a 18+ billion behemoth. Next year - probably.

TU102 appears to be about 32mm x 25mm in size. Thus we can calculate how many dies can a industry standard 300mm (12inch) wafer fit. Given a defect rate of only 0,05 which is impossible for chip this size that would amount to:

Max dies per wafer (without defect): 58
Good dies: 39
Defective dies: 19
Partial dies: 8
Yield: ~68%

^ This is the absolute best case scenario. Ever.

More realistically we are looking at a defect rate of 0.15 which would give drastically worse numbers:

Max dies per wafer (without defect): 58
Good dies: 20
Defective dies: 38
Partial dies: 8
Yield: ~34%

Calculator: http://caly-technologies.com/en/die-yield-calculator/

Assuming each wafer costs about 25000$ (it can't be much lower because Quadro RTX 8000 goes for 10000$ by itself so wafer is at least 2x more costly).

25000/20=1250$ well surprise surprise. If we get 20 good dies on 25000$ wafer the price is exactly what it is now for 2080Ti. But while the chip itself may the biggest cost per card there are other components costs that make up the BoM (Bill of Materials).

OK so assuming best case scenario 25000/39= 641$ + other components = retail price.

So already due to the manufacturing cost of the die itself it is almost as expensive as a 1080Ti MSRP of 699$.
Still think Nvidia are robbing us?

Yeah you probably do. Facts are never an obstacle for a crowd with pitchforks screaming bloody murder.


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## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 21, 2018)

bug said:


> Yes, I know you're dumber than average, you keep reminding us. Overclocking a CPU to world-record highs does nothing to you, a technique Hollywood spends millions to harness brought almost to mortal realm does nothing to you (hint: the human eye is way more sensitive to luminance than it is to chrominance). Ever considered taking up knitting, maybe?


Attacking someone won't justify your lame beliefs, looking at your posts and the number of them only shows that you are probably one sad (most probably fat) man/lady that spend most of his time arguing people on the forum  If you think I am dumb I respect your opinion...now you know what I think about you...remember that you've started this


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## bug (Aug 21, 2018)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> Attacking someone won't justify your lame beliefs, looking at your posts and the number of them only shows that you are probably one sad (most probably fat) man/lady that spend most of his time arguing people on the forum  If you think I am dumb I respect your opinion...now you know what I think about you...remember that you've started this


Do you think signing up on a tech forum to whine about tech is a smart thing to do?


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## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 21, 2018)

bug said:


> Do you think signing up on a tech forum to whine about tech is a smart thing to do?


Looking at your situation...that is exactly what you do


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## GoldenX (Aug 21, 2018)

Tomorrow said:


> A few people arguing against a mass. Conclusion = so many shills. Seems about right. /sarcasm
> 
> 1200$ is entry level Quadro price. High end Quadro goes for 10000$. Compared to that 2080Ti OK.
> 
> ...


Did I hit a nerve?
We want lower prices, no excuses.


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## bug (Aug 21, 2018)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> Looking at your situation...that is exactly what you do


WTF? What situation? When did I complain? Are you completely incapable of following a conversation?


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## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 21, 2018)

bug said:


> WTF? What situation? When did I complain? Are you completely incapable of following a conversation?


Nope, it's you, you're incapable of accepting others opinion  ... I did not reply first you did to me...as you do with I think most of the people on this forum...you feel the need for attention and reassurance that your opinion is the best, like you have all the answers and most important all the facts. You did not counter my opinion with hard facts...just assumptions...I said that the price is really high (as everyone says) and that nVidia did not show a lot to justify this...do you want me to go further?


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## jormungand (Aug 21, 2018)

rtwjunkie said:


> I’m not arguing for or against.  Technically against since I’m upgrading a gen behind to 1080 Ti.
> 
> Yes, the prices are expensive.  But I would like everyone to stop and take a few minutes. Why are they high? Sure, some can be blamed on lack of decent high end competition. However:
> 
> ...


I know that takes time and lot of effort to develop something but i think that the point (cough.!!!) is delivering to gamers an accesible price mid high end.newegg has the Asus RTX 2080 listed for $839.99
thats too much lol too much , like you i find really appealing the gtx 1080 ti now. Im gonna seat and wait for the real numbers on those new cards.


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## Somethingnew (Aug 21, 2018)

Tomorrow said:


> A few people arguing against a mass. Conclusion = so many shills. Seems about right. /sarcasm
> 
> 1200$ is entry level Quadro price. High end Quadro goes for 10000$. Compared to that 2080Ti OK.
> 
> ...


Assuming ? So assuming that 12 nm process is just slightly improved 16 mm finfet which is almost 4 year old . Don't you think the gains are higher ? And do you think that Nvidia pays the same amount of $ per mm2 , that for 16 nm when it was cutting edge , while in current standard 12 nm seems outdated , even 10 nm is soon gonna be replaced by 7 nm , so in my opinion 12 nm is outdated. So if you want we can roll on with that game of assumptions , how much they pay for mm2, but with high probability I can tell that they for sure pay less that for 16 nm , since 12 mm is just slightly improved 12 mm which is almost 4 years old , so do you think they pay the same fare ? . For me it just seems like you want to justify that riddicoulus price , and I don't even know why you want to do that , since for me it seems so irrational . Of course Nvidia is paying a lot less for mm2 in 12 nm process . So maybe I will assess that they are paying half of 16 nm fare . Since 12 nm is outdated currently . See ? All assumptions . The point is that these prices are sick . Even if we make assumptions that rtx 2080 ti is 50 percent faster that gtx 1080 ti in games , which I doubt it will , but let's assume that , so Fe to Fe edition is 72 % more expensive . So in conclusion we would pay more per frame after almost 3 years , you call that progress ? I call that being greedy as fuck , almost as being ripped off , just because there is no real competition . That price hike is not justified at all . Compare gtx 1080 ti to to gtx 980 ti Maxwell , price difference was 50 $ , double amount of memory , while the performance increase was 50 %  , so less than 10% price difference  , now Fe to Fe is 72% ? How someone can justify that ?


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## Tomorrow (Aug 21, 2018)

Somethingnew said:


> Assuming ? So assuming that 12 mm process is just slightly improved 16 mm finfet which is almost 4 year old . Don't you think the gains are higher ? And do you think that Nvidia pays the same amount of $ per mm2 , that for 16 mm when it was cutting edge , while in current standard 12 mm seems outdated , even 10 mm is soon gonna be replaced by 7 nm , so in my opinion 12 mm is outdated . For me it just seems like you want to justify that riddicoulus price , and I don't even know why you want to do that , since for me it seems so irrational . Of course Nvidia is paying a lot less for mm2 in 12 mm process . So maybe I will assess that they are paying half of 16 mm fare . Since 12 mm is outdated currently . See ? All assumptions . The point is that these prices are sick . Even if we make assumptions that rtx 2080 ti is 50 percent faster that gtx 1080 ti in games , which I doubt it will , but let's assume that , so Fe to Fe edition is 72 % more expensive . So in conclusion we would pay more per frame after almost 3 years , you call that progress ? I call that being greedy as fuck , almost as being ripped off , just because there is no real competition . That price hike is not justified at all . Compare gtx 1080 to to gtx 980 to Maxwell , price difference was 50 $ , while the performance increase was 50 %  , so less than 10% price difference  , now Fe to Fe is 72% ? How someone can justify that ?


Yes assuming. No one ever publicly states defect rate. However the die size and wafer size are real and there are facts to back those numbers up. 
I just told you why it's so expensive. Yet you fail to undestand basics of chip production. They can't produce 2080Ti for the same price as 1080Ti - it's technicly impossible. Unless you think they should sell at a loss? Because that's the only way they could do it. I mean forget revenue. Even if they sold these cards at break even prices it would still be more expensive than 16nm Pascal.


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## Somethingnew (Aug 21, 2018)

Tomorrow said:


> Yes assuming. No one ever publicly states defect rate. However the die size and wafer size are real and there are facts to back those numbers up.
> I just told you why it's so expensive. Yet you fail to undestand basics of chip production. They can't produce 2080Ti for the same price as 1080Ti - it's technicly impossible. Unless you think they should sell at a loss? Because that's the only way they could do it. I mean forget revenue. Even if they sold these cards at break even prices it would still be more expensive than 16nm Pascal.


All assumptions ? If I would assume , that the price for square mm2 , is half of that of 16 nm while it debuted , since 12 mm is basically slightly improved 4 years old 16 mm , so production costs would be similar or slightly higher since the yield could be lower , but considering that it's mature and perfected prices it could end up being higher ? You see ? All assumptions ? The point is that after such long wait , considering price increase , it's a big disappointment , as I stated Fe to Fe is 72 % price increase . So even if it's 50% faster , the amount of memory is the same , then as I said many times before we would end up paying even more per frame that while Pascal debuted , isn't that sick ?


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## the54thvoid (Aug 21, 2018)

In my logical mind, for the FE to be 70% more expensive requires a far higher performance increase than previous generation. For the post that talked about die size and wafer yields, that my friend is irrelevant. If you produce a product that does not improve more than a given trend, yet increase its price by a far higher margin, it is not justified. Likewise, R&D costs are void (consider it a 'Bulldozer-esque' moment) if the product doesn't shit diamonds.
If the 2080ti isn't a huge leap in 'all games' above Pascal's best, then the cost is not justified. The development and cost of a product is required to be reflected by its price. Arguments on wafer size are simplications of a development failure if said new design does not have huge perf increase over last gen.
Reviews will be very telling, one way or another.

Edit: put simply, if a company pisses 10billion down the drain in research for an underperforming product, said company usually has a stock price implosion.


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## Somethingnew (Aug 21, 2018)

To summarize all of that . Are you an expert in foundry production ? Do you know the costs of mm2 currently ? Don't you think that once the process is older then the price of mm2 is lower , since new cutting edge prices are on the way and the process is perfected and yields are higher ? 1080  ti was also big chip .  The point is after waiting such long time for new generations , possible performance increase is even lower that the price increase . Price performance ratio seems way overpriced and seems just as taking advantage of no real competition , and trying to cash that time , milk customers , and make much higher margins .



the54thvoid said:


> In my logical mind, for the FE to be 70% more expensive requires a far higher performance increase than previous generation. For the post that talked about die size and wafer yields, that my friend is irrelevant. If you produce a product that does not improve more than a given trend, yet increase its price by a far higher margin, it is not justified. Likewise, R&D costs are void (consider it a 'Bulldozer-esque' moment) if the product doesn't shit diamonds.
> If the 2080ti isn't a huge leap in 'all games' above Pascal's best, then the cost is not justified. The development and cost of a product is required to be reflected by its price. Arguments on wafer size are simplications of a development failure if said new design does not have huge perf increase over last gen.
> Reviews will be very telling, one way or another.


Yes exactly my point . I don't understand why some people try so hard to justify these prices , they are really something out of this world .


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## Tomorrow (Aug 21, 2018)

The only assumptions i made are defect rate and wafer price. I'm pretty confident in those numbers. Unless someone can refute those numbers with facts (you can't unless you work at TSMC's production line). No im not an expert. Very few people on the internet are. Best case there are analysts.
The maturity of the process affects yields. I gave you numbers based on best case end realistic ecpectations on defect rate. TLDR: worst case=1250$ per chip. Realistic=641$ per chip.
The way you talk you expect 12nm process to have a 0.00% defect rate because it is "old". All process nodes no matter how old or new will have some amount of defects. That's unavoidable. You not only expect Nvidia to sell their products at a loss but you also expect them to deny the laws of physics.

Fine i get you think it's overpriced. I told you there are reasons besides greed but you keep playing the same record over and over.
So let me ask you. What price for these cards would be reasonable for you?


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## the54thvoid (Aug 21, 2018)

Tomorrow said:


> The only assumptions i made are defect rate and wafer price. I'm pretty confident in those numbers. Unless someone can refute those numbers with facts (you can't unless you work at TSMC's production line). No im not an expert. Very few people on the internet are. Best case there are analysts.
> The maturity of the process affects yields. I gave you numbers based on best case end realistic ecpectations on defect rate. TLDR: worst case=1250$ per chip. Realistic=641$ per chip.
> The way you talk you expect 12nm process to have a 0.00% defect rate because it is "old". All process nodes no matter how old or new will have some amount of defects. That's unavoidable. You not only expect Nvidia to sell their products at a loss but you also expect them to deny the laws of physics.
> 
> ...



You need to understand production cost is not the sole determinant of retail cost. Nor is R&D. The product itself must perform. Now, while we have been told it is awesome at Ray Tracing, it has not been benchmarked against available games. It's a little obvious that Nvidia did not show ANY, non RT performance figures. 

I get they are pushing a new direction and I applaud that but it looks like a cash grab to me, and a lot of other observers, including web reviewers.

@W1zzard is the one that will tell us, assuming he gets a 2080ti.

And please, understand, my purchase history is GTX Titan, GTX 780ti (X2), Kingpin GTX 980ti, GTX 1080ti. So, not a hater, very much a supporter of the fastest consumer gfx cards.


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## Tomorrow (Aug 21, 2018)

the54thvoid said:


> You need to understand production cost is not the sole determinant of retail cost. Nor is R&D.


I understand that perfectly. Yet some people fail to realize that if you add GDDR6 memory cost and other material costs to a chip that costs 641$ or more to make then it is not very suprising that you end up with an expesive graphics card. 

Sure Nvidia has margins. Especially on FE models. There's litte doubt that FE cooler does not cost extra 200$ like in the case of 2080Ti FE vs SEP MSRP. But some people seem to believe Nvidia's margins are 50% or more from each 2080Ti card. That's just funny.


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## TheOne (Aug 21, 2018)

Four years ago the 970 launched for $330, two years later the 1070 launched for $450, and after another two years the 2070 is launching for $600, I dread to think where the price will be in another two years.

I'm really interested in seeing the performance of these cards in RT and standard titles, I hope the 2060 is more powerful than a 1080 Ti or Titan Xp.


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## Somethingnew (Aug 21, 2018)

Tomorrow said:


> The only assumptions i made are defect rate and wafer price. I'm pretty confident in those numbers. Unless someone can refute those numbers with facts (you can't unless you work at TSMC's production line). No im not an expert. Very few people on the internet are. Best case there are analysts.
> The maturity of the process affects yields. I gave you numbers based on best case end realistic ecpectations on defect rate. TLDR: worst case=1250$ per chip. Realistic=641$ per chip.
> The way you talk you expect 12nm process to have a 0.00% defect rate because it is "old". All process nodes no matter how old or new will have some amount of defects. That's unavoidable. You not only expect Nvidia to sell their products at a loss but you also expect them to deny the laws of physics.
> 
> ...


I think reasonable price would be in 750$-800$ range  . Since paying more money that performance increase just seems like cash grab to me . And going back to tsmc 12 mm . I understand there will always be defective chips in the wafers . But the percentage would be much lower in mature process . And do you really think that they pay the same amount for mm2 that for 16 mm ? I think they are paying a lot less than that , since 12 mm is older tech , not cutting edge . So let's roll with the game of assumptions you started . If they pay half for mm2 that 16 mm , since it's in principle like I said slightly improved 16 nm , 12 mm with better yeilds , so if they would pay half of the fare of 16 mm when it was cutting edge , then it would result in the same price that 1080 ti , or even lower than that ? That's why I want to stop the assumption . One solid fact is that the price of Fe to Fe is 71 % more . And even if performance increase would be 50% it would still be more expensive per frame . Isn't that riddicoulus , usually , after generation price per frame was much cheaper . And now it's getting more expensive ? How can you justify that ? Isn't that defying logic sense ? Not to mention prevorious generation was doubling memory size , gtx 980 ti , to 1080 ti was double the amount of memory , now it's the same as prevorious generation .  Not to mention low clokcs , higher tdp ,  power efficiency wouldnt  be ground breaking , especially comparing prevorious generation gains for example Maxwell to Pascal .



Tomorrow said:


> I understand that perfectly. Yet some people fail to realize that if you add GDDR6 memory cost and other material costs to a chip that costs 641$ or more to make then it is not very suprising that you end up with an expesive graphics card.
> 
> Sure Nvidia has margins. Especially on FE models. There's litte doubt that FE cooler does not cost extra 200$ like in the case of 2080Ti FE vs SEP MSRP. But some people seem to believe Nvidia's margins are 50% or more from each 2080Ti card. That's just funny.


Besides how did you come up with that 641 $ number , out of the moon ? If I would say that chip costs 200$ . Let's stop with that assumptions . It's just way overpriced from what it seems .



Tomorrow said:


> I understand that perfectly. Yet some people fail to realize that if you add GDDR6 memory cost and other material costs to a chip that costs 641$ or more to make then it is not very suprising that you end up with an expesive graphics card.
> 
> Sure Nvidia has margins. Especially on FE models. There's litte doubt that FE cooler does not cost extra 200$ like in the case of 2080Ti FE vs SEP MSRP. But some people seem to believe Nvidia's margins are 50% or more from each 2080Ti card. That's just funny.


 Just check Nvidia financial results . Gross margin of q1 2018 was 59.4% and that's a fact .


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## Xzibit (Aug 21, 2018)

Somethingnew said:


> Just check Nvidia financial results . Gross margin of q1 2018 was 59.4% and that's a fact .



Think your looking at last years. 

63.3% Q2 2018/FY 2019
64.5% Q1 2018/FY 2019


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## Mindweaver (Aug 21, 2018)

Everyone get along or move along.


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## Somethingnew (Aug 21, 2018)

Xzibit said:


> Think your looking at last years.
> 
> 63.3% Q2 2018/FY 2019
> 64.5% Q1 2018/FY 2019


Yes you are right , thanks for correction . I was looking at 1q/fy2018 my mistake. . The actual number is actually 64.5% for 2018 1q .


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## rvalencia (Aug 21, 2018)

No competition from RTG, hence Nvidia is free reign  to price it's GPUs accordingly.


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## Somethingnew (Aug 21, 2018)

Exactly . Well I think I will stick with my gtx 1070 for much longer that I imagined . But for 1080p it's still more than enough for some time. I hope there will be some competition in the future , toherwise as consumers we are going to be screwed , I still remember the times when I got my 970 for 329  $ , then 1070 for 400 $ , now rtx 2070 is going to be for 500$ so almost 180 % over Maxwell MSRP , and what's even more concerning that they didn't disclose any real game performance numbers , tflops , I doubt it will be in gtx 1080 ti range , probably in gtx 1080  territory , like it was with Maxwell to Pascal , when gtx 1070 was in gtx 980 ti performance range  . So I ask where is the progress considering price increase , the progress is called more money ? , Or the second money per frame , when usually price per frame was much lower after each generation ? . And as consumer who was thinking about upgrade , now I will vote with my wallet , and will stick to my gtx 1070 , since that price for midrange is sick , and gtx 2080 ti is just I sanely priced . I hope people will complain about that pricing otherwise that pricing will became the norm .


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## Tomorrow (Aug 22, 2018)

Somethingnew said:


> I think reasonable price would be in 750$-800$ range
> Besides how did you come up with that 641 $ number , out of the moon ? If I would say that chip costs 200$ . Let's stop with that assumptions . It's just way overpriced from what it seems
> Just check Nvidia financial results . Gross margin of q1 2018 was 59.4% and that's a fact .


So what's stopping you from getting RTX 2080 then? It's roughly in that price range. That is why different tiers exist. No one one is forcing you to buy Ti. You're complaining about the price of the Halo product. There is always diminishing returns in terms of performance the more expensive hardware you buy. That's always been the case and always will be. Vega64 is bad perf per $ compared to Vega56. 2700X is bad perf per $ compared to 2600X and so on.

641$ was explained earlier. It is a reasonable estimate based on available data for TU102 cost. Asking for TU102 in 750-800$ range means you're asking Nvidia to sell it with 0 margin. The only way they would do that, ever - is if AMD was breathing down their necks. Wich is not the case unfortunately.

Would i like cheaper high end cards? Sure. Who would not. But i also understand the cost of the chips themselves and that there is no competition.


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## rtwjunkie (Aug 22, 2018)

Tomorrow said:


> So what's stopping you from getting RTX 2080 then? It's roughly in that price range. That is why different tiers exist.


And that is exactly why you don’t do what you are suggesting.  Keep buying down each gen, and a few years from now someone goes from a xx80Ti to a xx30, and the only thing they can max out are games 5-10 years old.

Pricing will cause that, and it shouldn’t come to having to do that. Once you get to a tier you like....stay there.  If you keep slipping down, it will be prohibitively more expensive to buy the tier you were always used to, whatever that is.


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## Tomorrow (Aug 22, 2018)

rtwjunkie said:


> And that is exactly why you don’t do what you are suggesting.  Keep buying down each gen, and a few years from now someone goes from a xx80Ti to a xx30, and the only thing they can max out are games 5-10 years old.
> 
> Pricing will cause that, and it shouldn’t come to having to do that. Once you get to a tier you like....stay there.  If you keep slipping down, it will be prohibitively more expensive to buy the tier you were always used to, whatever that is.


Don't get too attached. You have a point but a RTX 2080 or even 2070 should handle everything below 4K just fine. So by buying cards in that price range you still get performance increases. Used cards are another matter. New cards can never compete with used cards in terms of perf per $.


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## Somethingnew (Aug 22, 2018)

Tomorrow said:


> Don't get too attached. You have a point but a RTX 2080 or even 2070 should handle everything below 4K just fine. So by buying cards in that price range you still get performance increases. Used cards are another matter. New cards can never compete with used cards in terms of perf per $.


I think this discussion is too long .
The conclusion is that Nvidia is trying to rip us off , and the price I crease is huge and in my opinion not justified . As for wafer price I found you overestimated the cost by at least 10000  $ , 20000 $ per wafer was a year ago , now it's probably a lot less . So if the rtx 2080 ti chip cost 350 $ maybe . Anyway that's the assumptions . And the price hike is way to much to be justified . Just look at financial results of Nvidia . They realise that they have no real competition in high end cards , that's why they are ripping us off . I think they could easily sell rtx 2080 ti for 800 $ which would be a 100$ more than gtx 1080 ti , and still make a lot of profit . But the point is that they are being greedy . What is really co concerning in my opinion  is your mindset , trying to justyfi that incredibly big price increase . If we follow your thinking then soon for 500$ we will buy low end graphics , and we should be ok with that ? Price Increase bigger than performance gain , when it should be the other way around ? Its insane isn't it ? No real performance number during conference ? Isn't that sketchy as fuck ?  That's what happens when there is no competition , soon Nvidia could have 100 % margin , and everybody should be happy and give them as much as they want ? . So let's raise taxes , why not , our government can do that ,let's give government 80 % of our earnings to them , and we should be happy about that. What is most concerning is justifing the greedy company , and trying every possible way to justify that price , why not . Next generation could cost 2000$ , and then , yeah sure , new technology , so we should gladly pay more etc ? That defies common logic , price performance ratio . That's the consequence of no competition , and company that is taking advantage of that . Imagine a situation , when there is one high speed internet provider , and if you want high speed connection , and after three years he wants 72 % more , just because he doesn't have competition . Yeah sure , when even Xbox one X , can playy some games at 4k 30 fps , while the rtx 2070 which will be over 500 $ the price of whole console , probably couldn't handle 60 FPS , where there is logic in that, and that's the price of GPU only  . So every year , I should go tier down ? Where is progress in that . What about price to performance increase , like it was every generation . It defies logic .


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## Prima.Vera (Aug 22, 2018)

bug said:


> but neither was the first Voodoo graphics accelerator



Yo're joking right? VooDoo was and still is THE BEST 3D accelerator ever produced, from the impact  to the gaming market perspective. It literally revolutionized the Gaming industry and put it on the path that there is today. No other card has impacted game visual quality as Voodoo did.


rtwjunkie said:


> The market will determine if these are priced too high to sell all the stock. If it’s too high, they and AIB’s will adjust.


This is going to be another bullshit fest from nVidia and partners. Due to very low yields and availability, most of the cards will be sold out, but they will claim that the sales are booming and they cannot coupe with the orders, therefore incresing their sahres value and making them even richer on false premises.... GREEDY unscrupulous Capitalism at it's finest!


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## N3M3515 (Aug 22, 2018)

Holy shit, what's the matter with those sky high prices???


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## GoldenX (Aug 22, 2018)

N3M3515 said:


> Holy shit, what's the matter with those sky high prices???


The higher your market share is, the higher your prices get, the dumber the "loyal clients" get. Look at Apple. Thank god Intel is no longer an example here.


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## mobiuus (Aug 22, 2018)

@bug, shut ur dirty mouth, now is enough of u callin other members stupid when clearly the only stupid person here is u
@Tomorrow since when should we the buyers care/speculate/or justify production cost from nvidia!!?? i doubt nvidia is a company willing to increase production cost on every new gen of cards...
thats not how corporations operate..
the only thing nvidia is going to do if they keep increasing gpu prices (and as mentioned earlier we get 2080ti runnin tomb raider ray traced @35fps lol ) is pushing gamers to playstation and xbox
still think they do this coz of miners


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## coolernoob (Aug 22, 2018)

guys, why are you keep doing this:




this is not what Jensen wanted you to think about now (with that full moth of preorder time before first real reviews - that is the true inovation here )... think about all the GigaRays and RTX-OPS and preorder now, for just "499" (that actually might be 1299,- for the card he demoed)... think about the technology and 10 year development, think about die size (size DOES matter!), think about Jensen's enthusiasm and press that preorder. Dont be a downer and dont think about those +20% performance real world gains and over +50% price gains (in 2.5 year time vs previous gen Pascal) - that kind of negativity is for loosers, downers, amd fanboiz, you are not like that - buy now - think later. Dont think about RayTrace as performance hog aka - 30-50fps on a 1920x1080 resolution on a 1299$ gpu , think about GIGA and Rays in a speed of light, think about those slideshow gameplays (with RTX ON) Jensen sowed us - those "just works!". Most of you downers got this wrong, but some enlightened folks (enlightened by the giga Rays of pure bliss ) here gets the Jensens vision and the future and announced their preorder plans like a champs *stands up and claps with tears in his eyes and then salutes the green flag* - you are da real MVPs - let the Jensen Rays be with you


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## Tomorrow (Aug 22, 2018)

Somethingnew said:


> I think this discussion is too long



Yes it is.



Somethingnew said:


> The conclusion is that Nvidia is trying to rip us off



Your conclusion is.



Somethingnew said:


> and in my opinion not justified



Fair enough.



Somethingnew said:


> As for wafer price I found you overestimated the cost by at least 10000  $ , 20000 $ per wafer was a year ago , now it's probably a lot less



It can't be ~10000$ because Quadro RTX 8000 (also a TU102, albeit a fully enabled one) is itself 10000$: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/3306/quadro-rtx-8000

This would contradict your claim that Nvidia is massively increasing margins. Surely they would not swallow half the wafer cost to keep RTX 8000 at 10000?

So if it's so expensive then simple logic dictates that the wafer must be more expensive. 25000$ is not unreasonable cost even if they get only a handful of fully enabled TU102's from it.



Somethingnew said:


> So if the rtx 2080 ti chip cost 350 $ maybe



In your dreams maybe. Here on the real world things are less rosy...



Somethingnew said:


> I think they could easily sell rtx 2080 ti for 800 $ which would be a 100$ more than gtx 1080 ti , and still make a lot of profit



They could but as we both know they have no incentive to do so.



Somethingnew said:


> What is really co concerning in my opinion  is your mindset , trying to justyfi that incredibly big price increase . If we follow your thinking then soon for 500$ we will buy low end graphics , and we should be ok with that ?



Don't put words in my mouth. That is your interpretation. I'm justifying no one. I'm trying to see why it's so expensive instead of jumping to the most obvious and easy answer like most people.



Somethingnew said:


> No real performance number during conference ? Isn't that sketchy as fuck ?



Yeah that was strange.



Somethingnew said:


> Imagine a situation , when there is one high speed Internet provider , and if you want high speed connection , and after three years he wants 72 % more , just because he doesn't have competition . Yeah sure



Do they also increase your speeds by 20-30% before asking that? Will the price per Mbit/s remain the same? Not the best comparison.



Somethingnew said:


> when even Xbox one X , can play some games at 4k 30 fps , while the rtx 2070 which will be over 500 $ the price of whole console , probably couldn't handle 60 FPS , where there is logic in that, and that's the price of GPU only



Consoles are running bare metal API's and games are perfectly optimized for those. Plus checkerboard 4K rendering meaning not real 4K. That is why they can run what seems like 4K 30 on much slower hardware.


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## bug (Aug 22, 2018)

Here's a more balanced assessment (compared to all the whining in thins thread): https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasone...-should-jump-off-the-hype-train/#5a7683423f8e

Their argument hinges on new 7nm cards being released next year, but overall it sums up the situation pretty well.


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## Mindweaver (Aug 22, 2018)

I want to be clear here; if someone is calling other members names or anything outside TPU's guidelines then report it. Do not try to resolve it yourself by calling them names.


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## basco (Aug 22, 2018)

paying in front for something i dont know-well seems most peeps get alonge with it-hint to origin and others.
tomorrow i will go to my butcher and pay him 50.- in advance for a meat i dont know or even want.


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## bug (Aug 22, 2018)

basco said:


> paying in front for something i dont know-well seems most peeps get alonge with it-hint to origin and others.
> tomorrow i will go to my butcher and pay him 50.- in advance for a meat i dont know or even want.


You would if there was the risk of you going to the store tomorrow only to find it empty.
But in the broad sense, there's not much point in preordering video cards.


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## Slizzo (Aug 22, 2018)

FWIW, NVIDIA quoted the Quadro 8000 as only being 2TFLOPS faster than previous gen. So there's that. I can't see it being much different on the GeForce lineup.

Again, I don't see a 2304 shader RTX 2070 beating a 3584 shader 1080Ti at traditional workloads. NVIDIA didn't show any performance metrics for traditional workloads for a reason; they're afraid of losing that pre-order revenue.


Anyone that pre-orders this is a fool IMO. And all the costs behind this GPU do NOT justify the price that NVIDIA is asking for these cards. DON'T fall into that trap guys! Let NVIDIA know what you think by NOT BUYING this gen.


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## Adam Krazispeed (Aug 22, 2018)

Ill PASS, and NVIDIA!!!! NO THANKYOU..


Ill Sticjk With My GTX 1080, untill your PRICES DROP BY 20-36%... see ya,, or ill but one used or on sale 1 year or two down the road,..,\\


screw you nvidia and your overcharged GPUs.. F**k YOU i may be done with your GPUS they do suck, and so does AMDs, but urs are the most EXPENSIVE and WALLET HUNGARY POSes... 


TOO HIGH o PRICE... if i buy anything ill just upgrade to a 1080ti..  12GB GDDR5x,, or wait wait what???// 11GB GDDR5X, NVIDIA??? WTF??? 11GB, HUH, thats a weird ram size, wthat the F****KK were u thinking, making an 11GB GPU???? on a 1080ti????


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## GoldenX (Aug 22, 2018)

I will quote an old and wise Argentinian proverb: "Que se las metan en el culo".


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## ensabrenoir (Aug 22, 2018)

.....honestly the only time we haven't complained about Nvdia prices was the 9 series.... But every other time ...we complain about the early adoption tax and then slowly but surely....most upgrade regardless.  Some sorta twisted circle of life thing.  Bunch of evil geniuses....


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## rtwjunkie (Aug 22, 2018)

Adam Krazispeed said:


> wthat the F****KK were u thinking, making an 11GB GPU???? on a 1080ti????


That actually wasn’t on them.  Micron gave them what they had ready.  Micron has problems with the 12GB and controller package (they produced them as a package), so NVIDIA took what Micron had the ability to produce for them problem-free.


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## Prima.Vera (Aug 23, 2018)

11GB of VRAM is way more than enough anyone will need, even for 4K resolution. Also the huge bandwidth, unless you are running 8xSSAA or FSAA on 4K (ridiculous)


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## Tomorrow (Aug 23, 2018)

rtwjunkie said:


> That actually wasn’t on them.  Micron gave them what they had ready.  Micron has problems with the 12GB and controller package (they produced them as a package), so NVIDIA took what Micron had the ability to produce for them problem-free.


Seem dubious considering Nvidia lanched Titan X with 12GB of G5X ~6 months prior to 1080Ti.
The 11GB VRAM buffer was a result of chip nerfing by Nvidia. They could not very well release a card with the same specs for 500$ less. Titan X owners would have sued them.

EDIT:
Referring to this: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2863/titan-x-pascal
Not this: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2948/titan-xp


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## lewis007 (Aug 23, 2018)

Nope!!!!


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## rtwjunkie (Aug 23, 2018)

Tomorrow said:


> Seem dubious considering Nvidia lanched Titan X with 12GB of G5X ~6 months prior to 1080Ti.
> The 11GB VRAM buffer was a result of chip nerfing by Nvidia. They could not very well release a card with the same specs for 500$ less. Titan X owners would have sued them.
> 
> EDIT:
> ...


You’re correct. I was mistaken. Turns out I was referring to the speed of the VRAM of 11GBs instead of 12GBs, not the amount.


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## Tomorrow (Aug 23, 2018)

rtwjunkie said:


> You’re correct. I was mistaken. Turns out I was referring to the speed of the VRAM of 11GBs instead of 12GBs, not the amount.


I see. Initial G5X ran at 10Gbps. 11 if you OC'ed yourself. Later when Micron perfected it then Nvidia shipped cards with 11Gbps default overclockable to 12Gbps. Including variants of GTX 1080 with 11Gbps G5X but as i recall those never really took off.


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## bug (Aug 23, 2018)

rtwjunkie said:


> You’re correct. I was mistaken. Turns out I was referring to the speed of the VRAM of 11GBs instead of 12GBs, not the amount.


Who cares? Both values translate to "a crapload more than needed by anything these cards will ever handle" 

That said, getting "creative" with the memory controller is not unheard of. Just look at what black magic Threaripper2 employs to enable those additional cores (and what that does to power draw).


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## rtwjunkie (Aug 23, 2018)

bug said:


> Who cares? Both values translate to "a crapload more than needed by anything these cards will ever handle"


Absolutely! Whether speed or capacity, this stuff has advanced well beyond what 95% of games can handle or make use of.


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## bug (Aug 23, 2018)

rtwjunkie said:


> Absolutely! Whether speed or capacity, this stuff has advanced well beyond what 95% of games can handle or make use of.


Eh, just throw in some uncompressed textures for good measure and it will suddenly as if the hardware doesn't measure up.
But that would be just sloppy.


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## noel_fs (Aug 24, 2018)

2070 is a scam in every aspect


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## bug (Aug 24, 2018)

noel_fs said:


> 2070 is a scam in every aspect


Apparently Amazon is already running out of stock, so what do you know? the world doesn't revolve around whining on TPU


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## rtwjunkie (Aug 24, 2018)

bug said:


> Apparently Amazon is already running out of stock, so what do you know? the world doesn't revolve around whining on TPU


How can they run out of stock on ore-orders?


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## FordGT90Concept (Aug 24, 2018)

They only accept pre-orders on confirmed stock that's coming.


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## bug (Aug 24, 2018)

rtwjunkie said:


> How can they run out of stock on ore-orders?


I'm not sure (I'm not in US), but they may have some numbers based on what they're expecting to receive in the near future?

Just look for them: Ti models are "currently unavailable" and you're not able to order them, but regular 2080 can still be ordered.

So yeah, they're ridiculously expensive, but there are takers even at those prices


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## rtwjunkie (Aug 24, 2018)

bug said:


> So yeah, they're ridiculously expensive, but there are takers even at those prices


What’s the old line about “a fool and his money...?”


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## bug (Aug 24, 2018)

rtwjunkie said:


> What’s the old line about “a fool and his money...?”


Market economy. As long as someone's willing to pay, that's the right price.


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## basco (Aug 24, 2018)

if nvidia sells 200 or 200.000 they will tell us its selling like gold.
marketing baby-yeah


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## N3M3515 (Aug 24, 2018)

bug said:


> So yeah, they're ridiculously expensive



Exactly.


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## Fluffmeister (Aug 24, 2018)

They are expensive, and I think we all wish they were going to be cheaper, but the cards will sell and find a market.

We all know Titan V is expensive too, but that doesn't stop people buying...... four of them :





https://hardforum.com/threads/prototype-4x-titan-v.1950322/


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## bug (Aug 24, 2018)

Fluffmeister said:


> They are expensive, and I think we all wish they were going to be cheaper, but the cards will sell and find a market.



Yeah, I wish this trend will stop at some point. But we all know that point is when cards start collecting dust on the shelves, no sooner. Apparently, we're not there yet


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## N3M3515 (Aug 24, 2018)

The trend will stop when AMD starts to make competitive gpus at much lower prices


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## RichF (Aug 26, 2018)

TPU article about excessive prices

Lots of comments, right away, about how wonderfully affordable they are

Looks to see if Mr. Serling is standing nearby.


N3M3515 said:


> The trend will stop when AMD starts to make competitive gpus at much lower prices


MS and Sony have these things they call consoles to sell you. They have terrible CPUs that would never have made the slightest dent in the market without having been propped up by this duopoly and the added bonus of causing consumers and developers to buy/release 3 different versions of the same game for the same x86 hardware platform. MS and Sony would like to tell you that you're very fortunate to be able to not buy into a single x86 hardware platform with a single software layer (Vulkan and OpenGL on Linux) — and also that you can, indeed, get AMD gpus at much lower prices. They are very "competitive". If they weren't, wouldn't we have so many other "consoles" to choose from?


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## StrayKAT (Aug 26, 2018)

garrick said:


> jessie james used a gun when he robbed pepole



When men were men... Even the bastards.


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## r9 (Aug 26, 2018)

At least they are cheaper compared to AMD Ray tracing cards, which are "priceless" right now.


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## UrbanCamper (Aug 27, 2018)

Well for these prices I hope it's as good as my old Sapphire Radeon 9800xt. Which adjusting for inflation cost about the same as the 2080. What a beast it was.


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## Ravenmaster (Aug 27, 2018)

bug said:


> This is not their price gouging. It's your reading comprehension failing you.


You mean nvidia's shifty advertising methods? Yeah ok...


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## garrick (Aug 28, 2018)

StrayKAT said:


> When men were men... Even the bastards.


i think im with you on that.


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## GreiverBlade (Aug 28, 2018)

weehee
one of my etailer listed some 2080 and 2080Ti ... i was right ...

2080: 900$+
2080Ti: 1400$+


this is ridiculous ...

edit ... and for the laugh : stock isn't 0 for the 2080Ti but -22 ... wild guess... "miner"  (if it is ... they should wait the bench before ravaging the stock and pushing the price even higher for the others )

one step closer for a Vega 64, the less ruinous option i have to upgrade from a 1070


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## Prima.Vera (Aug 29, 2018)

And those are the prices in Japan:  (1$=110¥ )


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## StrayKAT (Aug 29, 2018)

Prima.Vera said:


> And those are the prices in Japan:  (1$=110¥ )
> 
> View attachment 106105



Does Nvidia _want _to kill PC gaming in Japan or something?


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## GoldenX (Aug 31, 2018)

StrayKAT said:


> Does Nvidia _want _to kill PC gaming in Japan or something?


I supose otakus can pay that price.
With tue USD hitting a new high here, and creating some fear, we can now see the 1080ti reaching USD2,250 (ARS 90,000) on some less honest vendors. imagine the price for the 2080ti then.


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## noel_fs (Sep 3, 2018)

bug said:


> Apparently Amazon is already running out of stock, so what do you know? the world doesn't revolve around whining on TPU



The world is retarded


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## N3M3515 (Sep 3, 2018)

noel_fs said:


> The world is retarded



They can artificially reduce the stock to drive the prices up...


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## JalleR (Sep 5, 2018)

2080 is cheaper than 1080 was at launch if you look at Cudacores pr $ Price, not by much but a Little 





And Die Size Price is between 1080 and 1080TI...…. SO if RT and Tensorcores in not just Waste of Chip Space it could end up beeing a deasent to Good card.


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## Robert Bourgoin (Sep 6, 2018)

I think we need to give it back. making us pay outrageous prices. I say just hold your horses for awhile, the price will come down.


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## satrianiboys (Sep 9, 2018)

~3 month ago i sell my 1050ti for 200$  (after a year, and bought it for 170$ ) to prepare for the new incoming GPUs.
Looking at that ridiculous price, with the $ keep increasing in my currency, i just bought a 2 month used RX 580 8GB for 220$ from a desperate miner 

GPUs sells will die lol


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## TinTin Win (Sep 17, 2018)

I wait at my 1070 next generation


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