# Cooling system for i7-8086k (i7-8700k) @ 5.1-5.3 GHZ



## totalfreq (Oct 31, 2018)

So I'm not new to overclocking but have been out of the game for about a decade and a lot has changed..namely cooling. I jumped back in trying to squeeze more performance out of my T5500/T7500s as I'm bottlenecking my GPU and Ive been bitten by the OC bug again.

Have:
  EVGA 1080ti SC Hybrid

Inbound:
ASUS Maximus X Code
i7-8086k (aka binned i7-8700k)
G.skill 15CLI 3000mhz ram (4x4gb)
WD Black M.2 500gb NVMe

Ive read these chips all hit 5.1ghz across all 6 cores easily. I'm not looking to go crazy but a lot has changed in cooling since I did this last, so should I go air or water for the CPU cooling. Sound is not an issue I sit next to a bunch of ASICs. I already have a corsaire vengence or defender ram fan cooler I will use and the 1080ti is watercooled. I'm leaning towards the EVGA 240 watercooler to kind of match the GPU, but I'm open to options.

I dont want to go crazy, this will be a daily use but I do want the most I can get reliably (without the hassle of immersion or phase change),

Any thoughts?


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## Vayra86 (Oct 31, 2018)

- 5 Ghz is a realistic target. 5.1 is pushing the lottery
- The ideal performance RAM is 3200 CL14. Worth considering within your return period - when you do, make it 2x8Gb as well, so you push the memory controller less hard, because it will limit OC headroom
- You can air cool this. Im doing it for an 8700K, check specs. If you want to push higher than 1.35v, you will want to consider water, 240 rad seems good.


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## FireFox (Oct 31, 2018)

First of all Welcome to TPU @totalfreq



totalfreq said:


> Ive read these chips all hit 5.1ghz across all 6 cores easily



That is right, most 8086K hit as you already said 5.1GHz easily even 5.2GHz/5.3GHz it is not that hard ( Impossible ) to hit, about the Cooling solution my advice would be useless considering that when someone else join the thread they could tell you the opposite of what i would say, that said let's wait for the others.


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## Deleted member 178884 (Oct 31, 2018)

totalfreq said:


> I'm leaning towards the EVGA 240 watercooler to kind of match the GPU, but I'm option to options.


240 is pushing it - if your happy with 5ghz, you'll want to make sure you delid that 8086k to handle thermals if your aiming above that go for a 280mm aio or a 360mm one.


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## FireFox (Oct 31, 2018)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> 240 is pushing it - if your happy with 5ghz



I am using a 240 Rad 5.3GHz 1.36V and not Delidded.

Note: Delidding is the last option if your CPU is a hot one and don't overclock at high clock speed without adding high Voltages.


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## totalfreq (Oct 31, 2018)

Vayra86 said:


> - The ideal performance RAM is 3200 CL14. Worth considering within your return period - when you do, make it 2x8Gb as well, so you push the memory controller less hard, because it will limit OC headroom



I agree on the CL14, but I wanted quadrank which limited my options vs $$$. I havnt worked with this board before so any realworld experience is always appreciated, but I usually find controller overhead  is minimal compared to properly matched ranks. Now if I was going to mix two dual rank sets...then I definately would agree performance would be hindered in exchange for capacity. With the Maximus X Code using the T Topology supporting  QR, I imagine I will pick up the extra buswidth without a hugh impact to the controller, but if you have a Code/Formula and have different experience  with QR vs DR I'm all ears.

So you convinced me to experiment...i ordered a pair of cl14 3200mhz. Cant argue the math on the latentcy/freq so ill test with both the QR and DR setups when they come in and report back.


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## Deleted member 178884 (Nov 1, 2018)

Knoxx29 said:


> I am using a 240 Rad 5.3GHz 1.36V and not Delidded.


And how are temps? Any thermal throttling? You've clearly won the TIM lottery and the silicone lottery there.


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## FireFox (Nov 1, 2018)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> And how are temps? Any thermal throttling? You've clearly won the TIM lottery and the silicone lottery there.



If you haven't seen me here opening a Thread where i am asking for help because my CPU temps are high that means that everything is working fine  and the people in here that knows me they know how much i care about Temps.

Note: one thing that helps a lot to keep my temps not that high is the amount of Water in the Loop ( 7 liters )


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## jboydgolfer (Nov 1, 2018)

It would depend on whether or not your CPU is cooler or hotter when it runs.  Some people complain that these chips are very warm even @ stock frequencies, my experience is totally opposite of that, I was able to cool mine with a stock 1150 Intel CPU cooler for a couple days while I waited to install my water cooler.  my 8600K running @ 5.2 to 5.3 GHz never even broke 70°C  , but yours may be hotter. you shouldnt need anything ridiculous tho, even if it is a warmer Chip. Id guess anything equal to a H-75 & above would be fine, or a 212EVO (if its the one im thinking of)


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## FireFox (Nov 1, 2018)

That post is referring to my CPU or you are talking Generally?


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## totalfreq (Nov 11, 2018)

Knoxx29 said:


> If you haven't seen me here opening a Thread where i am asking for help because my CPU temps are high that means that everything is working fine  and the people in here that knows me they know how much i care about Temps.
> 
> Note: one thing that helps a lot to keep my temps not that high is the amount of Water in the Loop ( 7 liters )



What target temps should I be looking at OC'd for this chip (Idle/max)?

Im running limited testing under stress around 81c max at 5.296ghz @ 1.376v.

Also I went with the 240mm cooler (due to space constraints) and swapped out the ram for the suggest cl14.


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## FireFox (Nov 11, 2018)

totalfreq said:


> What target temps should I be looking at OC'd for this chip (Idle/max)?
> 
> Im running limited testing under stress around 81c max at 5.296ghz. I will be running an extended stress test tomorrow but I didnt want to push it without knowing a decent target temp to watch for.



81c for 5.296GHz and that Cooler it is not bad at all considering that is while under stress, that makes me believe your temps when Gaming should be around 60c or something like that? however the TJUNCTION for that CPU is 100c, that said, you dont have anything to worry about
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







totalfreq said:


> 1.376v.



With that Clock speed and voltage 81c is nothing, seems like a good CPU and you still have enough room to push it a bit further


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## grammar_phreak (Nov 11, 2018)

totalfreq said:


> So I'm not new to overclocking but have been out of the game for about a decade and a lot has changed..namely cooling. I jumped back in trying to squeeze more performance out of my T5500/T7500s as I'm bottlenecking my GPU and Ive been bitten by the OC bug again.
> 
> Have:
> EVGA 1080ti SC Hybrid
> ...




I rebuilt my daughter's system last year with an 8700k and I got the Maximus X Apex board because I like to tinker around and overclock when she's not home. At first I put the setup in my primary PC which has a 360mm HWLabs GTX 360/EK Supremacy EVO loop and I was able to clock the 8700k to 5.0ghz, no AVX offsets, LLC5, at 1.29v but the temps would hit 94c while running these newer versions Prime 95. If I delidded this chip, it would have no trouble at 5.2ghz AVX-2 offset.
After some tweaking it can do 5.1ghz, AVX -2 offset with reasonable temps. Once I put the z370 setup in her PC I ended up with the EVGA 280clc but I have scaled it back to 5.0ghz AVX offset -2 which put the temps in the low 80's. At 5.1ghz AVX offset -2 the temps are in the 90's with the 280clc while running a stress test. 

According to Silicon Lottery I somewhat fail to see how these 8086k processors were much better than a 8700k except it seems the worst ones can do 5.1ghz AVX -2 offset. 

I have the Rockit 88 delidding tool but I have only delidded a 3770k, 6700k, and 7700k so far. I never got to my 4790k before I sold it and I haven't done the 8700k yet. With the 6700k I slashed around 30c off the overclocked temps, but with the 7700k it only slashed a little more that 20c off the temps when overclocked. The 3770k fared even worse with a 15c cut. So it greatly depends on how much room there is between the IHS and Silicon die. 

Since all chips are different, you stand a chance of of 5.1ghz as long as you cut the AVX offset to -2. If you have a well made chips that has minimal distance between the IHS and CPU, and the Silicon is good then I don't see a problem.


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## John Naylor (Nov 11, 2018)

Id suggest a H320X (3 x 120mm) 0r H240X (2 x 120mm) so that at some point you can lose the Hybrid water cooler and join the loops together

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Swiftech/Swiftech_H360X3_Drive_X3_AIO/

Can not recommend any CLC type coolers with aluminum rads ....eventually, they all look like the pics here... good reading BTW

https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2012/01/24/corrosion-explored/

As for temps, that question can't be answered without knowing whet you are stress testing with and whether that utility has any applicability to real word usage. No synthetic tests will do that; passing a synthetic tests means a) your CPU is stable running the same thing on all cores. no indication about multitasking stability  b) your CPU is likely 10C or more hotter than it would ever be throwing any combination of real world apps at it.  So if your core voltage is set at 1.35, you might see 87C and stable  in a synthetic test at 5.1 Ghz  ..... and 75C / unstable in an application based multitasking test.  If 87 makes you uncomfy as it would me, you may be stuck at that 5.1 GHz.  But at 1.38, you just might be application based torture test stable at 5.3 GHz and 79C .... Id be happy with that 

I test with these

http://dlcdnmkt.asus.com/rog/RealBench_v2.56.zip
https://www.hwinfo.com/

Give this a run thru

https://www.tweaktown.com/guides/8481/coffee-lake-overclocking-guide/index.html


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## Kissamies (Nov 11, 2018)

Full custom loop. I can't recommend anything else now when I'm running with custom loop.


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## freeagent (Nov 12, 2018)

Just curious what temps you 5ghz+ guys are getting under Linpack?


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## svan71 (Nov 12, 2018)

My 8086 was delided before I installed it.  I used liquid metal pro.  I'm at 1.37 v at 5200 on all cores idle is 29 to 31 max temp aida64 is 84 I couldn't be happier.  My board is Asus Maximus Code and my cooler NZXT Kraken x62


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## FireFox (Nov 12, 2018)

For 5.2GHz my CPU need 1.325V and for 5.3GHz 1.36V ( No Delidded )


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## dgianstefani (Nov 12, 2018)

It depends on the chip. I've built 8700k systems for friends with 5.1ghz all core at 1.4v, on a delidded chip repasted with conductonaut. Got temps under 80c full load with just a Noctua NH-D15. Fan speed never went above 70% which meant they're quiet as well. 

People who say delidding should be a last case measure IMO don't get it. The bottleneck is not how good your cooler is or it's capacity, but how fast the heat can move from the chip to the cooler. It really doesn't matter if you have the best hardline liquid cooling system on the planet if your chip can only transfer heat at a set rate. 

Ask yourself this, is it worth the added cost and reliability concerns of watercooling, when you can use high end air as long as you delid?

And those stats (5.1g at 1.4v) are not showing any kind of "golden chip" by any means. Much better results could be achieved with a better chip.


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## FireFox (Nov 12, 2018)

dgianstefani said:


> Ask yourself this, is it worth the added cost and reliability concerns of watercooling, when you can use high end air as long as you delid?



My WaterChiller is way better than any high end air Cooler out there


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## Vayra86 (Nov 12, 2018)

Knoxx29 said:


> My WaterChiller is way better than any high end air Cooler out there
> 
> 
> View attachment 110395



I swear if I ever get into watercooling, this is going to be a thing. Otherwise what is the bloody point. Need to see low temps or its a total waste of time 



dgianstefani said:


> It depends on the chip. I've built 8700k systems for friends with 5.1ghz all core at 1.4v, on a delidded chip repasted with conductonaut. Got temps under 80c full load with just a Noctua NH-D15. Fan speed never went above 70% which meant they're quiet as well.
> 
> People who say delidding should be a last case measure IMO don't get it. The bottleneck is not how good your cooler is or it's capacity, but how fast the heat can move from the chip to the cooler. It really doesn't matter if you have the best hardline liquid cooling system on the planet if your chip can only transfer heat at a set rate.
> 
> ...



Delidding is a last resort measure, or at least, should be, because you kill warranty with it and there is a real risk of doing it wrong which means you can brick a CPU. At the same time, the performance gained from delidding barely exists - the only reason a delid is really going to get you anywhere further is when you want to push for record OC's. The real world gain of a delid in performance is at the very best 200mhz. That is *less than 5%* on a 5Ghz CPU. Seems a bit weak for the risk, cost and effort involved. Most use cases however barely extract 100mhz, so you end up with performance gaps that are almost margin of error territory.

The actual fact is, YOU don't get it. Look at the recent reviews and even stock temps of the SOLDERED Intel 9th gen. That's right 90 C is not uncommon. The fact is, as transistor density / mm² goes up, so does the concentration of heat. At the same time, Intel's 7th, 8th and 9th gen CPUs have progressively increased the Vcore on stock so they basically are just overclocking CPUs out of the box for you, so headroom shrinks.

Intel's soldered CPUs have definitively proven that their 14nm Core stuff is at peak performance and you run into voltage, thermal and throughput thresholds all at the same time (its why RAM latency and freq also has noticeable effect). Clocking further makes absolutely no sense apart from epeen value. You can count your blessings if you can hit the 1-core turbo across all cores these days.


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## FireFox (Nov 12, 2018)

Vayra86 said:


> I swear if I ever get into watercooling, this is going to be a thing. Otherwise what is the bloody point. Need to see low temps or its a total waste of time







Fair enough

Why haven't you Built one?


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## Vayra86 (Nov 12, 2018)

Knoxx29 said:


> Fair enough
> 
> Why haven't you Built one?



I'm a practical guy, and money doesn't grow on trees either


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## dgianstefani (Nov 12, 2018)

Exactly. Practically, as long as the CPU is below 75degrees under sustained load, the fan noise is below a certain DBa, and you've achieved the OC you want, it really doesn't matter what type of cooling you use.


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## FireFox (Nov 12, 2018)

dgianstefani said:


> Exactly. Practically, as long as the CPU is below 75degrees under sustained load, the fan noise is below a certain DBa, and you've achieved the OC you want, it really doesn't matter what type of cooling you use.



Agree with you.


Regular users are happy with 75C and i am happier with 40C


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## dgianstefani (Nov 12, 2018)

Vayra86 said:


> I swear if I ever get into watercooling, this is going to be a thing. Otherwise what is the bloody point. Need to see low temps or its a total waste of time
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mr. Expert presenting incomplete statistics to support his flawed opinion.

The benefit of delidding is not simply to OC harder for that "5% gain of 200mhz" but to reduce temperatures. With no other changes to the rest of the system, delidding and repasting with good thermal paste or liquid metal ideally, will result in temperature drops of between 5-20 degrees celcius, assuming your heatsink and fan assembly have the capacity to remove the additional heat transferred from the chip.

When was the last time you returned a CPU through a warranty claim?  Arguing the "risk" of delidding (which is literally just removing the heatspreader, changing the underlying compound then replacing the heatspreader) is like arguing that people shouldn't perform bicycle maintenance by themselves because of the "risk" of getting something wrong. The risk is minimal if you know what you are doing and use the correct tools, and anyone who's delidded knows this. Personally I've used both the professional tools such as DerBauer's Die Mate, but also just a standard vice.

But yeah, stick to the tired argument of "it's too extreme and risky", which would certainly be true if you were computer illiterate and clumsy (sound like the members on this site?).


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## Vayra86 (Nov 12, 2018)

dgianstefani said:


> Mr. Expert presenting incomplete statistics to support his flawed opinion.
> 
> The benefit of delidding is not simply to OC harder for that "5% gain of 200mhz" but to reduce temperatures. With no other changes to the rest of the system, delidding and repasting with good thermal paste or liquid metal ideally, will result in temperature drops of between 5-20 degrees celcius, assuming your heatsink and fan assembly have the capacity to remove the additional heat transferred from the chip.
> 
> ...



Temperature on its own doesn't get you anything. You've said it yourself only two posts ago. That alone makes a delid pretty pointless, because there is also barely any performance to be had. The lower temps don't suddenly create a huge amount of headroom. Regardless of cooling.

Nice stabbing btw, that really adds credibility to your post. /s

You are right its a tired argument, and 9th gen has finally put it to bed. Get the memo pls.


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## dgianstefani (Nov 12, 2018)

Yeah "temperature is useless", not quite what I said was it? Temperature doesn't matter if you have it below an acceptable level in combination with an acceptable noise level, such as the 75 celcius I suggested. If you *don't *then of course it matters. Use your brain.

Sure you can push your chip to an all core boost that's the same as the stock single core boost, but if your temps rocket to 80-90 celcius that's not great is it?

Since you're apparently so concerned with possible failure (warranty), I would have expected you'd appreciate the relationship between temperature and failure statistics.

But yeah, go ahead and spend £500 on a new custom loop instead of the easy way to take double digit degrees off your CPU temps.


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## Vayra86 (Nov 12, 2018)

dgianstefani said:


> Yeah "temperature is useless", not quite what I said was it? Temperature doesn't matter if you have it below an acceptable level in combination with an acceptable noise level, such as the 75 celcius I suggested. If you *don't *then of course it matters. Use your brain.
> 
> Sure you can push your chip to an all core boost that's the same as the stock single core boost, but if your temps rocket to 80-90 celcius that's not great is it?



You do suffer from selective reading it seems... I've already projected for you that the absolute clock gain is 100-200mhz, which is still very much true, and is still under 5% of actual performance gained. I have a non-delidded 8700K running 70-80 C under a Dark Rock Pro 3 @ 4.8 Ghz. If I go higher, any sort of efficiency is out the window and I stand to gain 5%. What is the point? You still haven't touched on that bit. And if your 8700K does 90 C out of the box, then you need to do your OC proper and not trust the board's Auto values, which has been common sense since forever.

You jump from one idiocy into another, now we're suddenly spending 500 quid on custom loops too? And you have data on degrading of CPUs when they are kept within safe temps? Here's some news for you: degradation happens not because temps are within spec, but because you push high voltages too often and more often than not, the traces on your board are dying long before the CPU degrades. Temperature only matters in that sense because it can increase the voltage required to hit a certain clock, but then we are back to square one where the data points out there isn't much to be gained anyway.

If you have some sources to open my eyes to your twisted reality, please bring it on. My body is ready. Until then, you're just one of the many who jumped on the useless delid bandwagon.


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## dgianstefani (Nov 12, 2018)

Here we go...
Apparently some things aren't obvious. 
Some chips run hotter than others at the same frequencies, therefore an OC that would be possible on one chip within acceptable temperatures is not on another. Apparently this has to be spelt out.
To do a basic "overclock" of just changing all core to the same value as single core boost is not always possible due to temperature development. Regardless of tuned voltages or mobo auto settings which you seem to be assuming I use. Real chip upper limits are found when temperature isn't an issue, which is where that "200mhz" you keep quoting becomes relevant. Efficiency certainly decreases as temperatures increase. Look up voltage leakage in relation to temperature. Your 4.8ghz would probably be 4.9 or 5.0ghz with very similar temperatures, at the same level of efficiency (performance/power draw). 

Do I really need to supply you with a reference list on how temperatures lower from the manufacturer defined upper limit are conducive to longevity? Are you actually stupid enough to believe that a chip running at 90c is just as durable as one running at 70c?


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## Vayra86 (Nov 12, 2018)

dgianstefani said:


> Here we go...
> Apparently some things aren't obvious.
> Some chips run hotter than others at the same frequencies, therefore an OC that would be possible on one chip within acceptable temperatures is not on another. Apparently this has to be spelt out.
> To do a basic "overclock" of just changing all core to the same value as single core boost is not always possible due to temperature development. Regardless of tuned voltages or mobo auto settings which you seem to be assuming I use. Real chip upper limits are found when temperature isn't an issue, which is where that "200mhz" you keep quoting becomes relevant. Efficiency certainly decreases as temperatures increase. Look up voltage leakage in relation to temperature. Your 4.8ghz would probably be 4.9 or 5.0ghz with very similar temperatures, at the same level of efficiency (performance/power draw).
> ...



Sources. Data. That is what I go on. Not blanket statements about temperature and degradation, because the reality shows us that even a heavily overclocked CPU never *I repeat* NEVER needs additional volts to keep going after 5-7 years time.

Am I stupid enough to believe that a chip running at 90 C is as durable as the one running at 70 C? Yes. Because its the reality. The difference is not measurable in any real world scenario. There are virtually no forum posts to be found of CPUs suddenly dying because they degraded, or needing lots of extra volts to keep going. AMD GPUs even run 90 C as 'in spec' and they run it almost everywhere. If they die, its a VRM issue. Not the chip itself. Do you know why CPUs die? Not because their thermal protection kicks in... but because it DOES NOT kick in while you keep increasing voltages.

So again, no source, not buying your BS. Yes, you do really need to supply something that supports your claims. It'll be fun to watch.


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## dgianstefani (Nov 12, 2018)

Believe what you want to believe.

Clearly you'd randomly choose between 90c and 70c if they were two options presented to you with all other factors being the same. One is clearly not better.


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## Vayra86 (Nov 12, 2018)

dgianstefani said:


> Believe what you want to believe.
> 
> Clearly you'd randomly choose between 90c and 70c if they were two options presented to you with all other factors being the same. One is clearly not better.



That I do. And I will keep correcting nonsense wherever I see it.

Once again you've removed every detail from this discussion with that second line of yours, omitting all the arguments I've presented to make your case. If this is your style, just stop. You won't win the war with me. Minusing the post only underlines your childish behaviour, nothing more.


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## John Naylor (Nov 13, 2018)

Chloe Price said:


> Full custom loop. I can't recommend anything else now when I'm running with custom loop.



I won't build anything else for myself but I certainly will recommend Air Coolers or non-CLC type AIOs to those with inadequate time or money to spend. 

My last custom build took me 3 weeks to build ... not everyone has the time but I enjoy it ... what else am I gonna do /... watch TV ?  So it's all I will ever choose personally.  But I am using multiple rads and over a dozen fans with a focus / goal of dead silence.

But if you don't have the time, I can't make a case against having EK assemble a custom loop at the factory and ship it pre-assembled.   A custom loop with a 3 x 120mm rad using  EK pump, res, rad and block isn't going to perform significantly different than a EK Pre-built all copper system other than using Ek makes it easier to add a water block.










You can now use the "chinese menu" method to select your components.

Pick ya block, pick ya rad / pump combo and pick ya GFX card block ...comes prefilled and ready to go ... 2 block choices.... 5 radiator / pump choices and more than 20 GFX card choices.

https://www.ekwb.com/news/ek-mlc-phoenix/

Again, not my thing but certainly better than a CLC.


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## jboydgolfer (Nov 13, 2018)

Knoxx29 said:


> That post is referring to my CPU or you are talking Generally?



My CPU is not very  different from yours ,aside from hyper threading.  I was simply offering my experience with the CPU of a similar design, to give you a reference point.

Personally, I don't recommend people to use benchmarks or things like prime 95 to Get an idea of a cpu's running temp.  It would be like basing your car purchase on whether or not it can drive to the top of the Himalayas. Of course theoretically you could do it (I suppose), but you're never going to ,so why purchase a vehicle that's capable of it? I purchase my coolers ,and other components with a similar mind set.   Purchase what you'll realistically require, not what you hypothetically might need


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## dgianstefani (Nov 13, 2018)

John Naylor said:


> I won't build anything else for myself but I certainly will recommend Air Coolers or non-CLC type AIOs to those with inadequate time or money to spend.
> 
> My last custom build took me 3 weeks to build ... not everyone has the time but I enjoy it ... what else am I gonna do /... watch TV ?  So it's all I will ever choose personally.  But I am using multiple rads and over a dozen fans with a focus / goal of dead silence.
> 
> ...



Yup, good quality Air or fully custom Water are the only two reasonable options IMO. CLC's are trash and always will be, plus they're typically twice the price or more than a comparable high end air, with marginal performance benefits on sub 150w hardware.

CLC's also don't give airflow over the VRMs and power delivery chips, which can lead to overheating if case airflow is not set up properly.


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## FireFox (Nov 13, 2018)

dgianstefani said:


> CLC's also don't give airflow over the VRMs and power delivery chips, which can lead to overheating if case airflow is not set up properly.



Maybe your CLC don't give Airflow over the VRMs, ops i forgot you don't have a CLC
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 however your statement is wrong at least in the way my CLC is built all the Hardware inside the case are cooled enough, i am wondering your temps inside the case
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






dgianstefani said:


> CLC's are trash and always will be



I don't mean to be rude but that is exactly what everybody says when they cant build one.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






dgianstefani said:


> plus they're typically twice the price or more than a comparable high end air,



I don't see any problem if you can afford it


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## dgianstefani (Nov 13, 2018)

CLCs are trash because they can always fail, and when (not if, they will fail at some point) they fail it's most often resulting in destroying the system they're installed in. AIO CLCs are the worst, but anything except fully custom, single metal, with high quality fittings (enjoy spending £20-50 per fitting), perfectly measured tubing/glass, a pump with more than 100,000 MTBF etc. etc. is just not worth it when comparing benefits to drawbacks, price not even included in that calculation. When you factor in the price of a "good" AIO CLC, which is between £100-300 new, with a worthy custom job starting at around £400 new (plus a lot of time and effort), it becomes very clear what type of cooling logically makes the most sense.

For bragging rights, or if you actually need more than 200-300W CPU cooling and want to liquid cool your GPU's too, plus you have excellent knowledge on how to pick and assemble parts, or you are willing to pay someone else to, plus if budget doesn't matter, then yes, custom water cooling makes sense. But for the rest of us, which is basically 95%+, CLCs, especially AIO CLCs don't make sense.


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## Vario (Nov 13, 2018)

Honestly any cooler beyond an air cooler is a waste when you can consider spending the money spent on a loop instead on a faster SSD, faster videocard, faster ram, better motherboard, or set aside for a future upgrade.


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## dgianstefani (Nov 13, 2018)

Vario said:


> Honestly any cooler beyond an air cooler is a waste when you can consider spending the money spent on a loop instead on a faster SSD, faster videocard, faster ram, better motherboard, or set aside for a future upgrade.


I would agree, up to a point, like I said, there are specific thermal circumstances which would warrant high end liquid cooling. For everything else, high end air is more than sufficient and can be tuned and customised to perform well and be very quiet.


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## FireFox (Nov 13, 2018)

Vario said:


> any cooler beyond an air cooler is a waste



Of course we wont never agree, now because Aircooler owners are happy running their CPU at 70c now i have to do the same and if build a CLC because i care about my CPU temps more than those Aircooler owners care about their then it is a waste? cut the crap.

I am old enough to know what i want.



dgianstefani said:


> CLC's are trash and always will be



I feel the same way about Aircooling
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Btw, this Thread is way off Topic because you and me


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## Vario (Nov 13, 2018)

Knoxx29 said:


> Of course we wont never agree, now because Aircooler owners are happy running their CPU at 70c now i have to do the same and if build a CLC because i care about my CPU temps more than those Aircooler owners care about their then it is a waste? cut the crap.
> 
> I am old enough to know what i want.
> 
> ...


Hey I have no problems with you running one, you are a guy that wants the best and I can appreciate that.


----------



## dgianstefani (Nov 13, 2018)

Vayra86 said:


> That I do. And I will keep correcting nonsense wherever I see it.
> 
> Once again you've removed every detail from this discussion with that second line of yours, omitting all the arguments I've presented to make your case. If this is your style, just stop. You won't win the war with me. Minusing the post only underlines your childish behaviour, nothing more.



Max core temp is 98C (Tjunction). Intel recommend a max of 72C for (Tcase) (entire CPU) 

Educate yourself.


----------



## totalfreq (Nov 13, 2018)

For those that were wondering I have some results:

I'm running at a super stable 5.2ghz AVX -1 with a healthy 1.424v without exceeding 90c in any test (I'm going op back the voltage down but I wanted the head room for testing).

I ran Prime95 stable for 1 hr = max 89c on one core <= 86c on the rest of the cores

I also ran firestrike v1.1 https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/30267016

Below are screenshots of the other tests I ran (all back to back with no reset). Unfortunately CPU-Z will not show my current score at these settings - it just keeps popping up with my 5.386ghz run @ 95c (which was unsustainable with my cooling solution)

Now to start clocking the ram.


----------



## FireFox (Nov 13, 2018)

Weird that at 5.2GHz you got just *1680 cb*

*

*


5.2GHz should be *1700 cb+*







I guess you still need to do some tweaks?


----------



## Vario (Nov 14, 2018)

Does Cinebench use AVX?  Could be his offset.


----------



## FireFox (Nov 14, 2018)

I don't know even so he is running 5.2ghz AVX -1 = 5.1GHz if Cinebench use AVX still his score should be higher than mine


----------



## John Naylor (Nov 14, 2018)

``


Knoxx29 said:


> Maybe your CLC don't give Airflow over the VRMs, ops i forgot you don't have a CLC however your statement is wrong at least in the way my CLC is built all the Hardware inside the case are cooled enough, i am wondering your temps inside the case
> 
> I don't mean to be rude but that is exactly what everybody says when they cant build one.
> 
> I don't see any problem if you can afford it



1.  Exactly where is the air over the MoBo coming from ? .. with a typical 2 intake fans in front, one in rear and thge CLC fans on top blowing out in direct conflict with manufacturers recommendations, what's specifically targeting the VRM ?   I water cool the VRMs.  Unless you are doing extreme overclocking, bus overclocking or have poor case ventilation, this wont be an issue.   If you are really pushing the OCs, you'll want air flow fans enough to remove case air 1.5 to 2.0 times per second and, potentially, spot cooling if there are any dead spots as usually exist in ITX builds.  This is more of an issue with many hybrid CLC coolers which cool the GPU  only.   Lately some manufacturers have been offering auxillary cooling but it's barely equal of lee=ss as far as VRN are concerned.  Think about that ... once uses a 2 x 120mm CLC for their 90 watt CPU but 1 x 120mm for their 300 watt GFX card ????   Something very wrong with that picture,

2.a  Ya gotta explain how one "builds" an AIP that is pre-built at the factory ?

2.b   reasons why CLCs are "crap"

a)  Weak pumps (0.11 gpm on H100i)
b)  Extreme Speed fans (noise)
c)  Aluminum rads
d)  Can not augment corrosion inhibitors after useful life expires (18 - 24 month life span)
e)  Not expandable to add MoBo Blocks, GFX card Blocks, extra rads
f)  Mixed metals (copper block / aluminum rads) violates 1st rule of water cooling creating a galvanic corrosion cell
https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2012/01/24/corrosion-explored/

3.  I don't don't see a problem unless you believe that you are actually getting something fo your money  The old argument was "I don't want a big heavy 2 pound weight hanging off my mobo".  And if you routinely ship your machine around by FedEx Ground Gorillas, ya got a pointt.  But it's a silly argument when the PC sits on a desk with a water block held down by 70 pounds of claming force.   It's also a silly argument when it's done based upon the assumption that it's bringing something to the table.  A $45 Scythe Fuma will outperform almost every CLC on the market and they cost 3 times more.    The H100i is 11.3 times louder than the Noctua NH-D15.  So the only thing left is that you either find the air cooler aesthetically untenable or it's all about impressing one's friends and RGB..

4.   Finally, why would you spend $150 on a CLC (Crappy Liquid Cooling) when any reason or objection one could have is eliminated by custom loop kits pre-assembled at with commonly used higher quality custom loop parts the factory.,,, for the same price of less.

a) 1.0 - 1.5 gpm flow rates
b) better fans
c)  Copper rads
d)  Can add corrosion inhibitors but far less significant (see f)
e)  Are expandable to add MoBo and GFX Blocks
f)  Have copper blocks and copper rads so no galvanic corrosion cell which makes CPU block look like this after years of usage.






OLC Swiftech H240X w/ Copper rad= $135
CLC Kraken X62 w/ aluminum rad= $188

OLC Swiftech H320X = $165
CLC Corsair15i - $170


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## FireFox (Nov 14, 2018)

John Naylor said:


> 1. Exactly where is the air over the MoBo coming from ?





Knoxx29 said:


> I don't know my Motherboard's VRM temps but all what i can say is that inside my Case the temp is 18c that means 9c below room temp, i guess that the lower the temps inside the Case is and the cooler the components are, or maybe am i wrong?
> Max Temp while Gaming is 36c.





hat said:


> Incorrect sensor reading. How can the air inside the computer be cooler than room temp? Unless you are filling it with dry ice blocks every so often...





Knoxx29 said:


> Easy
> 
> Put a Radiator inside the case with two fans attached to it turn on the Chiller and cool the water at 10c what do you think it's going to happen inside the case? when using Waterchiller you dont need Rads but i placed one inside the case knowing that doing so temps would drop.





infrared said:


> Clever use of a chiller, I like!  You don't have problems with condensation on the rad?



Answer to the rest of your post:

I am aware of every single point you mentioned above and i know the Pros and Cons very well, i would like to tell you that i started building CLC yesterday or a week ago but I'm sorry to disappoint you.


Note: We don't need to keep this conversation going over and over again, i am kinda bored


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## totalfreq (Nov 14, 2018)

Knoxx29 said:


> Weird that at 5.2GHz you got just *1680 cb*
> 
> 5.2GHz should be *1700 cb+*
> 
> ...



I re-ran the test today - possible windows was doing an update or something  when I ran it yesterday (I'm on a clean install). - and yes still tweaking...working on the ram now.


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## FireFox (Nov 14, 2018)

As @Vario mentioned today if Cinebench use AVX, i am curious too

Edit: I ran CineBench using -1 AVX and clock speed didn't drop.


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## Deleted member 67555 (Nov 14, 2018)

OMG..
Just putting this out there...
If you have a mixed metal cooling system aka aluminum rads, copper block use something like Hercules corrosion. Inhibitor.
It's $30 but gives you a lifetime supply at that price


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## FireFox (Nov 14, 2018)

jmcslob said:


> If you have a mixed metal cooling system aka aluminum rads, copper block



That would be hilarious if someone does.


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## totalfreq (Nov 14, 2018)

Knoxx29 said:


> That would be hilarious if someone does.



Dont forget to add saltwater to the cooling loop. It has a lower heat index and will help the mixed metals bond faster!

So I spent the afternoon optimizing the ram, bclk, and am about 50% into the video card. So far so good and all is stable with some decent increases without changing the cpu heat (which I feared being the controller for the ram is on the CPU). What I just figured out is I can control the pump and fans on the cpu watercooler which may cause me to start over now that I have a little more control over the heat situation. 5.3 with avx-1 may be attainable now with realistic temps, I will find out tomorrow. It also looks like I may have up to another 100mhz on the gpu and another 200mhz on the gpu ram but its a work in progress, and I have a 1080ti on loan to a friend that I should have back the end of this month anyway so I'm not too worried about the gpu right now.

Anyway I increased my passmark by 566 points which was impressive!






**** EDIT **** just realized XOC wasnt showing the stats in the pic above


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## Spaceman Spiff (Dec 4, 2018)

totalfreq said:


> For those that were wondering I have some results:
> 
> I'm running at a super stable 5.2ghz AVX -1 with a healthy 1.424v without exceeding 90c in any test (I'm going op back the voltage down but I wanted the head room for testing).
> 
> ...



@totalfreq what kind of temps are you hitting just on a cinebench run at 5.2 1.424 and your EVGA 240?

I have just put together an 8086k (delidded CLLP between die and RockitPro copper IHS and CLLP between the ihs and monoblock), z370 taichi, g.skill 32gb 3200 cl4 in a water loop with 2x 480 rads and a bitspower monoblock and I think I may have a dud of a chip. At 5.2 I need over 1.4v and cinebench slams my temps up to mid-high 90's almost immediately. Not to mention Realbench and other AVX stuff.

Right now I am at 5.1 @ 1.36v (manual volts 1.35 in bios, LLC auto)and a single cinebench run gets me in the mid 80s range.

I am thinking I may need to pull apart my loop, reseat my IHS, maybe put the original IHS back on in case the all copper one is just not making proper contact. Things seem out of whack. Although gaming temps barely brush 60C, which seems about right no? 
@Knoxx29 @totalfreq Thoughts?



Edit: Also, are you guys using High Performance Power Plan in Windows? Or Balanced?


----------



## FireFox (Dec 4, 2018)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> CLLP between the ihs and monoblock



Wait wait wait, let me see if i got this straight, you applied CLLP between the IHS and the Waterblock?  i hope i misunderstood what you wrote


----------



## Spaceman Spiff (Dec 4, 2018)

Correct. I had CLLP on my 4790k IHS and my raystorm block for about 2 years and I just took it apart last week. It leaves some stain, but a little lapping gets it to come right off. 

The monoblock isn't aluminum so it should not be a problem. Have you heard otherwise?


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## R-T-B (Dec 4, 2018)

dgianstefani said:


> sound like the members on this site?



No.  I even am a delidder and I agree:  Unless you are a hardcore enthusiast or something it really should be treated as a last resort measure.

I wouldn't go around calling members of this site tech-illiterate by the way, you might get stung.


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## FireFox (Dec 4, 2018)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> Have you heard otherwise?



I would only recommend using CLLP between CPU die and IHS.


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## R-T-B (Dec 4, 2018)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> The monoblock isn't aluminum so it should not be a problem. Have you heard otherwise?



As long as it is Nickel-plated you should be fine.  Copper is even ok, but longevity suffers.



Knoxx29 said:


> I would only recommend using CLLP between CPU die and IHS.



You may, but if you are really going all out there's no harm in applying it all over provided it's done carefully and correctly (I know I know, it's ironic this coming from "Mr. CPU socket murderer" but bear with me).

It's easy to screw up though so be cautious doing it.


----------



## Spaceman Spiff (Dec 4, 2018)

Knoxx29 said:


> I would only recommend using CLLP between CPU die and IHS.


Yeah I hear ya. Since I bought an IHS just for the chip I decided to CLLP the IHS to block as well. I'm likely going to do a teardown and use the original IHS and some regular paste since I don't to mess up the original IHS.

Your thoughts on my temps though? Does it seem odd?

@R-T-B yes the block is nickel-plated.


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## FireFox (Dec 4, 2018)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> Your thoughts on my temps though? Does it seem odd?



I am too paranoid about temps so i would say for a Delidded CPU that hit those temp with 2x 480 rads temps are high, however try as you said use the original IHS and some regular paste and see if something change


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## Vario (Dec 4, 2018)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> Yeah I hear ya. Since I bought an IHS just for the chip I decided to CLLP the IHS to block as well. I'm likely going to do a teardown and use the original IHS and some regular paste since I don't to mess up the original IHS.
> 
> Your thoughts on my temps though? Does it seem odd?
> 
> @R-T-B yes the block is nickel-plated.



CLLP/CLLU tarnished my copper heatsink ages ago, required lapping to make it level again, but nickel plated probably okay.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Dec 4, 2018)

Knoxx29 said:


> I am too paranoid about temps so i would say for a Delidded CPU that hit those temp with 2x 480 rads temps are high, however try as you said use the original IHS and some regular paste and see if something change



Yeah I think that is what I will do. I appreciate your time. I'll come back when its done, it may take a while.

@Vario yeah my Raystorm is copper and it looks ugly, but a little lapping will clear it up and I'll re-use it. But was fine for about 2 years with liquid metal on it.


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## FireFox (Dec 4, 2018)

Vario said:


> CLLP/CLLU tarnished my copper heatsink ages ago but nickel plated probably okay.



Probably but not sure not a lot of people doing it out there


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## Vario (Dec 4, 2018)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> Yeah I think that is what I will do. I appreciate your time. I'll come back when its done, it may take a while.
> 
> @Vario yeah my Raystorm is copper and it looks ugly, but a little lapping will clear it up and I'll re-use it. But was fine for about 2 years with liquid metal on it.


It left a white birdshit raised up alloy on the top that was rough to the touch.  Good news was the pump died on the thing around that time, so despite fixing it with lapping, I ended up throwing it away.  Given that the lid itself is nickel plated and those don't react to gallium, it will probably be okay.


----------



## totalfreq (Dec 4, 2018)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> @totalfreq what kind of temps are you hitting just on a cinebench run at 5.2 1.424 and your EVGA 240?
> 
> I have just put together an 8086k (delidded CLLP between die and RockitPro copper IHS and CLLP between the ihs and monoblock), z370 taichi, g.skill 32gb 3200 cl4 in a water loop with 2x 480 rads and a bitspower monoblock and I think I may have a dud of a chip. At 5.2 I need over 1.4v and cinebench slams my temps up to mid-high 90's almost immediately. Not to mention Realbench and other AVX stuff.
> 
> ...



I will have to check later - I dont have the PC setup at the moment but I always test with HWMon open and I wouldnt have settled at 5.2 if it were in the 90s (I would have declocked). Also I'm not delidded so you should be even lower. I'll test again though and let you know.

Speed stepping, hibernate, sleep - all BS that I turn off. I asic mine at home so my power bill is already around $700-1000/mo so the extra 100w+ for the cpu and HDD really doesnt affect my power bill. Also, over the years Ive seen tremedous data loss from sleep and hibernate modes - I wouldnt recommend ever using them.


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 4, 2018)

Custom loop


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## Spaceman Spiff (Dec 5, 2018)

Turns out I had applied too little liquid metal on the IHS -> monoblock. When I took it apart there was barely any residue on the monoblock itself. I only applied a thin layer to the IHS, not to the monoblock as well so my contact was not ideal. When I do the die -> IHS I put a thin layer on both to make sure adhesion is good but since I have also killed parts with liquid metal in the past I went a little too shy on my application for the IHS -> monoblock for fear of a spill over.

Anyway, I put the original IHS back on with liquid metal between the die and IHS, then EK TIM between the IHS and monoblock. Temps are much better now. But I don't know about getting up to 1.42+ volts to get 5.3 stable . You must have a nice chip on your hands @Knoxx29 and I'm sure the water chiller helps.


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## FireFox (Dec 5, 2018)

Glad to hear you found where the issue was.

Delidding sometimes helps with voltages but unfortunately it doesn't always works that way it looks like you got a power hungry CPU and you can't do much about it maybe tweaking it a little bit could help with voltages.



Spaceman Spiff said:


> You must have a nice chip on your hands @Knoxx29 and I'm sure the water chiller helps.



I guess so, the Chiller helps just when Benching.


----------



## totalfreq (Dec 6, 2018)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> @totalfreq what kind of temps are you hitting just on a cinebench run at 5.2 1.424 and your EVGA 240?
> 
> I have just put together an 8086k (delidded CLLP between die and RockitPro copper IHS and CLLP between the ihs and monoblock), z370 taichi, g.skill 32gb 3200 cl4 in a water loop with 2x 480 rads and a bitspower monoblock and I think I may have a dud of a chip. At 5.2 I need over 1.4v and cinebench slams my temps up to mid-high 90's almost immediately. Not to mention Realbench and other AVX stuff.
> 
> ...



So I just got everything setup, (had the system off this weekend as I'm playing with a new one lol). I opened HWMon, and then ran Realbench so I wasnt on a cool/startup run and I then ran Cinebench15 through the GPU/Multi/Single and took a screenshot.

To note I have done a little more tweaking since the last bench upping my blck 0.5%  to get around 5.23ghz AVX -1 stable. I also have my 3200mhz ram dialed in to 14-14-14-34 @ 3750Mhz which has raised my heat a bit due to the controller being on the CPU, but I'm happy if my max bench temp stays 10% below throttle as my real use temps will be at worst in the 60-70c ranges. I'f I drop the ram OC back down to say 3300mhz my cpu core temps drop down to around max 88c.

Remember I'm using an off the shelf clc, not delidded, but I did use my own thermal paste (generous but not overkill).


----------



## dgianstefani (Dec 7, 2018)

That's decent for off the shelf CLC non delidded, with your settings. You could probably drop temps around 10c by delidding and liquid metal, personally i'm uncomfortable with anything over 85c, 90c would be a big no no for me.


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## FireFox (Dec 7, 2018)

dgianstefani said:


> personally i'm uncomfortable with anything over 85c, 90c would be a big no no for me.



Lucky you, anything over 50c and i start tearing my hair out



dgianstefani said:


> You could probably drop temps around 10c by delidding and liquid metal,



If he is lucky 15c/20c, the max drop i got was 25c with a 3700K


----------



## totalfreq (Dec 7, 2018)

[


dgianstefani said:


> That's decent for off the shelf CLC non delidded, with your settings. You could probably drop temps around 10c by delidding and liquid metal, personally i'm uncomfortable with anything over 85c, 90c would be a big no no for me.



I'm not too afraid of running a processor within its spec. I pushed my first P233MMX up to 290mhz back in the mid 90s and ran it for about 8 years without issue (other than it being too slow 6 months later lol). I also saw puffs of smoke come out the back of PCs as other OC'd chips blew over the years - Ive learned how to overclock through trial and error, and do it manually with my voltages all the way up and the clocks all the way down working backwards watching thermals. Though you may not be comfortable with 90c  (or 50C for Knoxx), 90c on a bench is still 10% below thermal throttle limit and I'll likely never see it in realworld application for any extended period of time. Also the vcore limit is above 1.5 and I'm no where near that so my maximum current capacity is still "processor safe". 

In testing I had the ram up at 4000mhz and I hit 95c on prime 95 before the 5min mark (when things really cook) .  I shut it all down and declocked. Reason is the memory controller is on the CPU. I can either choose to clock up the CPU or the RAM or find a happy medium which is where Im at. Even though in real world I'd likely never still see the thermal throttle that prime 95 would have hit, that was outside my comfort zone.

If I'm going to delid and go custom (which I dont have time for right now), I'm heading to what the cool kids call phase change. I've been in refrigeration for the past decade+, and have my EPA license so I can buy/build the cool (no pun intended) toys most people cant. I have a few direct expansion (read phase change) air conditioners lying around I have considered parting out to build a CPU/GPU cooler, but just dont have the time right now. One day maybe.

The other thing I'm considering is immersion. Not for my computer, but for my ASICs. I currently crypto mine and run my ASICs at a whopping 150% average overclock. My issue is heat. I basically use fans on their side of the ASICs to create forced induction, and then actual condition the air using direct expansion cooling which is quite power hungry, but its still more profitable than running them without OC in a non AC room. But Ive toyed with how I can get an even greater overclock, using more efficient cooling. My thought is to not only drop an ASIC in mineral oil (for 8x heat dissipation vs air), but then (thanks to KNOXX), run the mineral oil through a fish tank chiller....It would be cheaper than my current cooling and probably net me additional OC headroom...my concern is KABOOM! Ive seen transformers blow during hurricanes and that mineral oil make one heck of green ball of fire. If I get brave enough to try it I'lll post the info.

For now though - im happy with my current build above 5Ghz using off the shelf parts.


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## dgianstefani (Dec 7, 2018)

Max core temp is 98C (Tjunction). Intel recommend a max of 72C for (Tcase) (entire CPU). That's conservative, but 80c+ is a nono for me.


----------



## Vario (Dec 7, 2018)

totalfreq said:


> [
> 
> 
> I'm not too afraid of running a processor within its spec. I pushed my first P233MMX up to 290mhz back in the mid 90s and ran it for about 8 years without issue (other than it being too slow 6 months later lol). I also saw puffs of smoke come out the back of PCs as other OC'd chips blew over the years - Ive learned how to overclock through trial and error, and do it manually with my voltages all the way up and the clocks all the way down working backwards watching thermals. Though you may not be comfortable with 90c  (or 50C for Knoxx), 90c on a bench is still 10% below thermal throttle limit and I'll likely never see it in realworld application for any extended period of time. Also the vcore limit is above 1.5 and I'm no where near that so my maximum current capacity is still "processor safe".
> ...


I wouldn't bother with the oil that would be a mess.


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## totalfreq (Dec 7, 2018)

dgianstefani said:


> Max core temp is 98C (Tjunction). Intel recommend a max of 72C for (Tcase) (entire CPU). That's conservative, but 80c+ is a nono for me.



Where are you getting those numbers?

TJuction is listed at 100C from the Intel docs. 

I'm not going to disgree that intel wants you to run these optimally in the 60-70C range, but your warranty is still valid  so long as you stay below TJunction 100C and below 1.5v vcore. Also the TControl offset is like 14-18C, so that doesnt even begin to start until you have breached the 80s. With that said if Intel thought it wasnt safe to be running at 80, they would have begun the TControl thermal slope in the 60s.


----------



## dgianstefani (Dec 7, 2018)

totalfreq said:


> Where are you getting those numbers?
> 
> TJuction is listed at 100C from the Intel docs.
> 
> I'm not going to disgree that intel wants you to run these optimally in the 60-70C range, but your warranty is still valid  so long as you stay below TJunction 100C and below 1.5v vcore. Also the TControl offset is like 14-18C, so that doesnt even begin to start until you have breached the 80s. With that said if Intel thought it wasnt safe to be running at 80, they would have begun the TControl thermal slope in the 60s.



TJunction ≠ TCase.

Depending on the CPU the recommended specs differ. My example was from the 4790k. So Coffee lake is 2c higher it's not really the issue I'm pointing out. 

TCase 72c is the recommended temperature Intel supplies OEMs.


----------



## FireFox (Dec 8, 2018)

In real world applications ( mostly Gaming ) in Summer Time i always run my CPU at least 50c
below TJunction and in winter time 60c only time i go up to 10c below TJunction is when doing heavy benchmarks


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 8, 2018)

dgianstefani said:


> Max core temp is 98C (Tjunction). Intel recommend a max of 72C for (Tcase) (entire CPU). That's conservative, but 80c+ is a nono for me.



I mean, the CPU literally doesn't even start to throttle until a die temp of 90+...


----------



## dgianstefani (Dec 9, 2018)

Ok so you know better than Intel, simply going off data that the CPU won't slow itself down to protect itself until a certain temperature.


----------



## trog100 (Dec 9, 2018)

dgianstefani said:


> Ok so you know better than Intel, simply going off data that the CPU won't slow itself down to protect itself until a certain temperature.



it starts to throttle down at 100 C.. maybe 99 c but it never goes over 100 C.. the intel diagnostics test shows a pass at 99 C.. 

i think some folks need to have a rethink on whats hot and what isnt. 

trog..


----------



## dgianstefani (Dec 9, 2018)

Clearly you miss the point. Sure something will work at it's redline, but the "optimum" temperature as I have stated several times now is a different matter. Optimum ≠ redline. Pretty simple.


----------



## phanbuey (Dec 9, 2018)

dgianstefani said:


> Clearly you miss the point. Sure something will work at it's redline, but the "optimum" temperature as I have stated several times now is a different matter. Optimum ≠ redline. Pretty simple.



yeah but the 'redline' is selected by the manufacturer to run for a decade... notebooks run at that for years and have been doing so for a very long time... redline is not the true redline of the silicone, just the throttle point that the CPU maker sets.  My passively cooled lenovo that ive been using for the last 4 years idles at 60 and loads at 95 and it runs great.

They've learned their lesson since the days of chips melting.

Optimum temperature for a cpu (depends on design) but it's something close to 0 C.  So unless you want a phase change system, you're never at optimum.


----------



## trog100 (Dec 9, 2018)

i would love my 8700K cpu to never go over 70 C.. but at 5 g optimum has to go in favor of practicality.. 

trog


----------



## dgianstefani (Dec 9, 2018)

Clearly you guys are going to keep changing the goalposts to avoid what I'm saying, which is pretty simple really. Most OC'd CPUs go over 72C, and there's an easy way to get those temps down when you've already done everything voltage and cooling capacity wise.


----------



## Vario (Dec 14, 2018)

dgianstefani said:


> Clearly you guys are going to keep changing the goalposts to avoid what I'm saying, which is pretty simple really. Most OC'd CPUs go over 72C, and there's an easy way to get those temps down when you've already done everything voltage and cooling capacity wise.


I never see mine go over 55 C, I am a very conservative overclocker.  Only running 4.6 and 1.18V  default LLC, offset mode.  If I had hyperthreading, that would probably run 10 degrees higher though.  Factory sealed lid.


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 14, 2018)

dgianstefani said:


> Ok so you know better than Intel



Did I say this?

However if above 90 is "redlining" you would hope intel engineers were not be incompetent and would thus begin a throttle.

It does not.  Ergo, assuming Intel knows what it is doing, we can assume say 95 degrees is very well safe in most conventional terms.



dgianstefani said:


> Clearly you guys are going to keep changing the goalpost



No one is.  If a you are trying to establish is 70C is better than 90C no debate there.  My point is really simply either one not being slammed with volts will last decades.


----------



## John Naylor (Dec 14, 2018)

Im just surprised that so many folks are delidding.   Perhaps it's the decision to use synthetics as the stress test, but when using an application based stress test, I just can't create a condition where temps are an issue.   I'm always in the 70s when my core voltages are breaking 1.5 when AVX is present.    Delidding might get me into 60s but Im quite comfy in the mid to high 70s.  To get higher OC, I could go higher and delidding would help there, but delidding won't keep my voltages from climbing higher than I see now.


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## R-T-B (Dec 14, 2018)

John Naylor said:


> Im just surprised that so many folks are delidding.   Perhaps it's the decision to use synthetics as the stress test, but when using an application based stress test, I just can't create a condition where temps are an issue.   I'm always in the 70s when my core voltages are breaking 1.5 when AVX is present.    Delidding might get me into 60s but Im quite comfy in the mid to high 70s.  To get higher OC, I could go higher and delidding would help there, but delidding won't keep my voltages from climbing higher than I see now.



I'll be honest, for me it's just enthusiast sydrome: I can, therefore, I do.


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## Globespy (Jan 8, 2019)

Knoxx29 said:


> I am using a 240 Rad 5.3GHz 1.36V and not Delidded.
> 
> Note: Delidding is the last option if your CPU is a hot one and don't overclock at high clock speed without adding high Voltages.



Using AVX offset? 5.3ghz on all cores?
VCCIO/VCCSA/VCPPL values?
Fixed voltage or adaptive? If adaptive what is your base voltage and your offset?

Great chip you have there.
My 8086K (delidded) has been running for months at 5.2ghz all cores @1.36v with Corsair 150i Pro
Max temps Prime 96 (v26.6) running 1344k FFT (in place checked) at 58C after 1 hour,
No AVX offset, VCCIO 1.10v, VCCSA 1.15v, VCPPL (VTT) 1.14v.
All games (I use Witcher 3 as my 'test' bench as it uses AVX and will quickly crash an unstable OC.) have ran flawlessly, never a problem
No issues with Cinebench, Heaven, Valley, Superposition etc.

I used to like Realbench but it's been stopping due to 'instability detected' of late.
I've even tried running 5ghz which my chip can easily do, and same issue.
Tried adding AVX -2 and same issue.
I'm beginning to think that either Realbench (2.54) isn't all that great anymore and/or it has issues with Win 10 v1809 that haven't been discovered yet.
Never had these issues on v1803, so I don't trust Realbench anymore.
I play a variety of titles that are known to be rough on even slightly unstable OC's (Destiny 2 is another good example) and not one single issue.

Of course the Realbench guys are wearing 'blinkers' and refuse to even entertain the idea that just maybe there's something in their program that's needing attention.



John Naylor said:


> Im just surprised that so many folks are delidding.   Perhaps it's the decision to use synthetics as the stress test, but when using an application based stress test, I just can't create a condition where temps are an issue.   I'm always in the 70s when my core voltages are breaking 1.5 when AVX is present.    Delidding might get me into 60s but Im quite comfy in the mid to high 70s.  To get higher OC, I could go higher and delidding would help there, but delidding won't keep my voltages from climbing higher than I see now.



I dropped 25C under load after delid of 8086K.
Idle temps are literally the same as ambient give or take a degree.
So, for me it's a substantial gain - heat is bad.

A friend has a 8700k on Corsair AIO and was seeing temps under full load into the mid 90's celsius with only a mild OC of 4.8Ghz.
After delid, 70-75C.
That's huge.

The way I see it, it's a 15 minute job using correct procedure and tools to correct heat issues caused by Intel's penny pinching practices using whatever gunk they put on these chips in the factory.
It's like going to a nice bar and ordering top shelf whisky and getting some hooch instead.


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## FireFox (Jan 8, 2019)

Globespy said:


> Using AVX offset? 5.3ghz on all cores?
> VCCIO/VCCSA/VCPPL values?
> Fixed voltage or adaptive? If adaptive what is your base voltage and your offset?



5.3GHz on all cores no AVX offset for me, VCCIO 1.14V and VCCSA 1.13V, i use fixed voltage.


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## Globespy (Jan 10, 2019)

Knoxx29 said:


> 5.3GHz on all cores no AVX offset for me, VCCIO 1.14V and VCCSA 1.13V, i use fixed voltage.



Nice - first time I have seen anyone put the VCCSA lower than the VCCIO.
Anything else you messed with to make stable?
Disable power states, speedshift/speedstep, VT-d?

I'm still learning all the tricks of OC'ing and would love to learn more about what else in the BIOS is useful for fixed voltage OC's.

For example I found out yesterday that after getting blue screen in Windows you can end up finding you get lots of instabilities even on settings that were perfectly stable before - I guess some corruption happens that doesn't seem to be resolved by using any of the DISM or scannow commands.
I always keep an image of a fresh install handy so it's pretty easy to get back to where I was.


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## FireFox (Jan 10, 2019)

Globespy said:


> first time I have seen anyone put the VCCSA lower than the VCCIO.



I always have/use/set  VCCIO higher than VCCSA



Globespy said:


> Anything else you messed with to make stable?



Nope, only thing i mess with are the basic settings and i am sure you already know it



Globespy said:


> Disable power states, speedshift/speedstep, VT-d?



Yeap, that is the first thing i do when OCing


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## LacklusterOG (Feb 3, 2019)

Knoxx29 said:


> My WaterChiller is way better than any high end air Cooler out there
> 
> 
> View attachment 110395


Can you tell me what your water temps are with this thing? I've been interested in these, but can't seem to find one that will get my water cooler than it already is. Any info is appreciated.


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## FireFox (Feb 3, 2019)

LacklusterOG said:


> Can you tell me what your water temps are with this thing? I've been interested in these, but can't seem to find one that will get my water cooler than it already is. Any info is appreciated.



Before i answer your question how cool is your water?


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## LacklusterOG (Feb 3, 2019)

Knoxx29 said:


> Before i answer your question how cool is your water?


Idle: 22c - 25c load: 28c - 31c, depend on the temp of my room.


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## FireFox (Feb 3, 2019)

LacklusterOG said:


> Idle: 22c - 25c load: 28c - 31c, depend on the temp of my room.



The Chiller has the capacity to drop temperatures down to 4°C and if you modify it to -5c


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## LacklusterOG (Feb 3, 2019)

Knoxx29 said:


> The Chiller has the capacity to drop temperatures down to 4°C and if you modify it to -5c


That's pretty awesome. I'm assuming there's condensation at that temp? Does the thing have it's own pump?


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## FireFox (Feb 3, 2019)

LacklusterOG said:


> That's pretty awesome. I'm assuming there's condensation at that temp? Does the thing have it's own pump?



As long as you don't cool temps below the dew point there isn't risk of condensation, the Chiller doesnt have it is own pump.


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## LacklusterOG (Feb 3, 2019)

Knoxx29 said:


> As long as you don't cool temps below the dew point there isn't risk of condensation, the Chiller doesnt have it is own pump.


Last question, will a d5 handle the flow duties if adding this to a system with 3 rads?


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## FireFox (Feb 3, 2019)

LacklusterOG said:


> Last question, will a d5 handle the flow duties if adding this to a system with 3 rads?



Yes it will, i would suggest to get an Alphacool D5 VPP655 the one with the adjustable RPM


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## LacklusterOG (Feb 3, 2019)

Knoxx29 said:


> Yes it will, i would suggest to get an Alphacool D5 VPP655 the one with the adjustable RPM
> 
> View attachment 115675


Thank you very much for the info. Much appreciated!!


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## FireFox (Feb 3, 2019)

Anytime.


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