# AMD First with OpenGL 4.0 Compliant Graphics Driver



## btarunr (Mar 26, 2010)

Shortly after the Khronos group announced the OpenGL 4.0, the newest version of the multi-platform graphics API, AMD is out with a preview graphics driver for its ATI Radeon, FireGL, FirePro, and Mobility Radeon graphics accelerators, which includes the OpenGL 4.0 ICD (installable client driver). The driver is available for Windows 7, Windows Vista, Windows XP, and Linux. OpenGL 4.0 is comparable and up to times with Microsoft's DirectX 11 API, it makes use of hardware features such as tessellation on the GPU, per-sample fragment shaders and programmable fragment shader input positions, 64-bit double precision floating point shader operations, etc., and has no restrictions on which later version of Windows it can run on. With OpenGL 4.0 for example, one can expect 3D graphics with the complexity comparable to DirectX 11 on Windows XP. 

*DOWNLOAD:* ATI Catalyst OpenGL 4.0 Preview Driver for Windows 7/Vista, Windows XP, and Linux.

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## Easo (Mar 26, 2010)

Mmm, more games should support OpenGL QQ


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## Mussels (Mar 26, 2010)

DX11 graphics on XP? noice!


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## filip007 (Mar 26, 2010)

Maybe now nVidia will say, OGL 4 is not important like they ware saying for DX11 at first


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## Hawkster13 (Mar 26, 2010)

filip007 said:


> Maybe now nVidia will say, OGL 4 is not important like they ware saying for DX11 at first



Haha yep, I remember reading that. Nvidia was really pushing the OGL 4 thing, saying that all the GTX4xx will support OGL4 with just a driver update and now ATI comes out with the driver before they did.

I got to say, WELL Played ATI, well played haha


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## Mussels (Mar 26, 2010)

i wonder if this driver is newer than cat 10.3a?


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## Loosenut (Mar 26, 2010)

Probably one of many new and interesting things from ATI coming out in the next few days


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## Mussels (Mar 26, 2010)

Cat 10.3a






10.3 OGL4








Seems clear to me that these are 10.3a + OGL4 (direct3D version hasnt changed)


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## Perra (Mar 26, 2010)

Interesting. ATI sure has been stepping up their game lately when it comes to drivers, gotta love it. Lets hope they keep it up.


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## Loosenut (Mar 26, 2010)

So is it worth installing?


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## Mussels (Mar 26, 2010)

Loosenut said:


> So is it worth installing?



not a clue. since the OGL versions are improved, anyone who plays OGL games may benefit. CCC is also updated, which may or may not included bugfixes (new crossfire profiles, for example)


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## Loosenut (Mar 26, 2010)

Mussels said:


> not a clue. since the OGL versions are improved, anyone who plays OGL games may benefit. CCC is also updated, which may or may not included bugfixes (new crossfire profiles, for example)



Thanks Mussels. Like you, I'll throw caution to the winds and try it out.


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## Mussels (Mar 26, 2010)

Loosenut said:


> Thanks Mussels. Like you, I'll throw caution to the winds and try it out.



its not like we're on nvidia, where a bad driver kills our cards


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## Loosenut (Mar 26, 2010)

Mussels said:


> its not like we're on nvidia, where a bad driver kills our cards



 

Lord knows I need all the help I can get with BFBC2 anyways


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## INSTG8R (Mar 26, 2010)

Loosenut said:


> Lord knows I need all the help I can get with BFBC2 anyways



I hear that...:shadedshu


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## burebista (Mar 26, 2010)

Mussels said:


> not a clue. since the OGL versions are improved, anyone who plays OGL games may benefit.


There are a few reports on guru3d forums about broken old OpenGL games. I dunno.


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## Roph (Mar 26, 2010)

No word of which cards it's supported on? I assume all ATI's DX 10.1+ cards.


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## Mussels (Mar 26, 2010)

burebista said:


> There are a few reports on guru3d forums about broken old OpenGL games. I dunno.



it is beta.



Roph said:


> No word of which cards it's supported on? I assume all ATI's DX 10.1+ cards.



Not a clue. worked on my 4870's at least, so we should assume all 4k cards are supported until proven otherwise.


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## Lionheart (Mar 26, 2010)

Is this worth downloading?


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## Sasqui (Mar 26, 2010)

Mussels said:


> not a clue. since the OGL versions are improved, anyone who plays OGL games may benefit. CCC is also updated, which may or may not included bugfixes (new crossfire profiles, for example)



Don't forget other applications, like Google Earth.

I found that plain CAT 10.3 OpenGL performance was down from the 9.11 drivers.  I was getting over 10k in FurMark, now it's 9550.

I wonder how the optimization is with these, guess I'll have to give it a try.


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## InnocentCriminal (Mar 26, 2010)

Roph said:


> No word of which cards it's supported on? I assume all ATI's DX 10.1+ cards.



Applicable Products:

This issue applies to the following configuration(s):

    * Hardware
          o ATI Radeon™ HD 5000 Series
          o ATI Radeon™ HD 4000 Series
          o ATI Radeon™ HD 3000 Series
          o ATI Radeon™ HD 2000 Series
          o ATI FirePro V8750
          o ATI FirePro V8700
          o ATI FirePro V8650
          o ATI FirePro V8600
          o ATI FirePro V7750
          o ATI FireGL V7700
          o ATI FireGL V7600
          o ATI FirePro V5700
          o ATI FirePro V5600
          o ATI FirePro V3750
          o ATI FirePro V3700
          o ATI FireGL V3600

However, this is just software support as these cards only support OpenGL 3.2 and lower on a hardware level. The 5 series are the only cards that can support the OpenGL 4.0 specification even though they don't have hardware support. OpenGL 3.3 is meant to bring some/most of the features in 4.0 to older cards.


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## buggalugs (Mar 26, 2010)

Mussels said:


> Not a clue. worked on my 4870's at least, so we should assume all 4k cards are supported until proven otherwise.



OpenGL 3.3 is supported on ATI cards made since 2007. OpenGL 4.0 is fully supported on 58XX and mostly supported for low end 5XXX series except for something called double precision.

 Heres AMDs statement:

http://blogs.amd.com/developer/2010...ble-–-amd-supports-opengl-3-3-and-opengl-4-0/


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## Sihastru (Mar 26, 2010)

All this noise is nice and all, also it's a good thing we move forward, but what applications and/or games do you know that are using OpenGL 4.0? Is ATI again first to support something that nobody is using to code anything at the moment?


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## filip007 (Mar 26, 2010)

*Mussels* try with GLview maybe will that show some more info...
http://www.realtech-vr.com/glview/download.html


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## buggalugs (Mar 26, 2010)

Sihastru said:


> All this noise is nice and all, also it's a good thing we move forward, but what applications and/or games do you know that are using OpenGL 4.0? Is ATI again first to support something that nobody is using to code anything at the moment?



Apparently OpenGL is used a lot in non-gaming applications by science researchers, military and various commercial applications.

 Things like simulations etc.


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## Loosenut (Mar 26, 2010)

Another interesting read from Khronos explaining OpenGL 4.0

http://www.khronos.org/news/press/r...-cross-platform-graphics-acceleration-opengl4


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## Zubasa (Mar 26, 2010)

Sihastru said:


> All this noise is nice and all, also it's a good thing we move forward, but what applications and/or games do you know that are using OpenGL 4.0? Is ATI again first to support something that nobody is using to code anything at the moment?


If nobody gives hardware support in the first place, who on earth will code anything?
OpenGL is used in quite a few games and that includes pretty much all the games that can run on Macs, WoW included.
OpenGL 4.0 is a new extension added which is never a bad thing.


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## Thrackan (Mar 26, 2010)

Nice! Gotta try that stuff soon.


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## wiak (Mar 26, 2010)

Roph said:


> No word of which cards it's supported on? I assume all ATI's DX 10.1+ cards.


Radeon HD Series gives you OpenGL 3.3
Radeon HD 5000 Series and above gives you OpenCL 4.0


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## Sasqui (Mar 26, 2010)

OpenGL USED to be the standard for video games, and practically every 3D desktop application until a little company called Microsoft came along an introduced DirectX.  They promised a robust API, more functionality and closer integration with the OS layer as an enticement, which most game developers bought into, albeit slowely.  The other part of it was the ease of code porting to other MS devices/operating systems.

OpenGL was/is open source, so the developers of it weren't working for the profit part of it like M$.  OpenGL is somewhat extensible...  adding new shader models is possible.  With DirectX, you are totally at the whim of M$.

If you want to see a quick, simple comparison of OpenGL to DirectX, install Google Earth.  There is program menu option to start it in OpenGL or DirectX.  Ironically, I have to use OpenGL to run Google Earth, as it will crash often using DirectX


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## Sihastru (Mar 26, 2010)

I was talking about OpenGL 4.0, not the past versions, I know a few things older versions of OpenGL are used for (Adobe CS4 for example), but I don't know of any things that use OpenGL 4.0... And what exaclty does this version bring new to the table as opposed to the older versions?


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## WarEagleAU (Mar 26, 2010)

thanks, even though it is 3.3 for my card, i will be using this instead of the new cat 10.3s


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## ov2rey (Mar 27, 2010)

do HD4870 chip itself support OpenGL4.0?


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## sweeper (Mar 27, 2010)

I had the 10.3 drivers but without the OpenGL update. Cinebench has a OpenGL benchmark. I was only scoring mid 19FPS @ 2.8GHz. I installed the OpenGL 4.0 update (beta) and ran the benchmark and my system is running all stock now (2.6GHz) and my FPS jumped to 36FPS. So atleast in that benchmark it proved to be a performance gain. Now Heaven benchmark on OpenGL had problems. Some scenes were just black. I believe scene 10 and 12 were solid black with a few others having problems with solid black areas.


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## Mussels (Mar 27, 2010)

since sasqui brought it up, i'll cover it in one post so we dont need to go off topic:

openGL was king for graphics. it seemed to be the one for hardware acceleration, back when directX was still used for software.

Things changed however, because directX stopped being all about direct draw (2D) and became a 'bundle' - you got 2D (directdraw) 3D (direct3D) audio (directsound) input (directinput) and so on. Coding for openGL may have given you broarder support and potentially better work, but sticking with directX (and shafting linux/mac) made it easier, since you could get everything you needed in the one package - not just the video component.


Lately, people are just making directX games and swapping direct3D for OpenGL - which is why theres not many ports for other platforms. (they have to go to effort for input, sound, etc)


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## Wile E (Mar 27, 2010)

Sihastru said:


> All this noise is nice and all, also it's a good thing we move forward, but what applications and/or games do you know that are using OpenGL 4.0? Is ATI again first to support something that nobody is using to code anything at the moment?



That was going to be my question. A new api is great and all, but what is out there that uses OGL4 that I need to worry about the drivers right this moment?


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## btarunr (Mar 27, 2010)

Sasqui said:


> OpenGL was/is open source, so the developers of it weren't working for the profit part of it like M$.



Nope, OpenGL isn't open-source, never was. The "Open" in OpenGL refers to open-standards, where each GL vendor (such as NVIDIA, ATI, etc.,) is free to make his own additions (GL extensions).


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## TAViX (Mar 27, 2010)

Mussels said:


> DX11 graphics on XP? noice!


To bad there are no good games that are using OpenGL. The old stuff from ID doesn't count since they use either OpenGL or DX9...



btarunr said:


> Nope, OpenGL isn't open-source, never was. The "Open" in OpenGL refers to open-standards, where each GL vendor (such as NVIDIA, ATI, etc.,) is free to make his own additions (GL extensions).



OpenGL (Open Graphics Library) is a standard specification defining a cross-language, cross-platform API for writing applications that produce 2D and 3D computer graphics. The interface consists of over 250 different function calls which can be used to draw complex three-dimensional scenes from simple primitives. OpenGL was developed by Silicon Graphics Inc. (SGI) in 1992[2] and is widely used in CAD, virtual reality, scientific visualization, information visualization, and flight simulation. It is also used in video games, where it competes with Direct3D on Microsoft Windows platforms. *OpenGL is managed by a non-profit technology consortium*, the Khronos Group.

The OpenGL standard allows individual vendors to provide additional functionality through extensions as new technology is created. Extensions may introduce new functions and new constants, and may relax or remove restrictions on existing OpenGL functions. Each vendor has an alphabetic abbreviation that is used in naming their new functions and constants. For example, NVIDIA's abbreviation (NV) is used in defining their proprietary function glCombinerParameterfvNV() and their constant GL_NORMAL_MAP_NV.


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## shevanel (Mar 27, 2010)

wasnt counterstrike 1.6 and half life 1 openGl?


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## Mussels (Mar 27, 2010)

shevanel said:


> wasnt counterstrike 1.6 and half life 1 openGl?



more like "all of the above" they had software, D3D, and OGL iirc.


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## Champ (Mar 27, 2010)

what's the most recent game to use OpenGL?  I thinking it would be nice to use two 4890's since they are getting dirt cheap for DX11 like graphics.


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## Mussels (Mar 27, 2010)

Champ said:


> what's the most recent game to use OpenGL?  I thinking it would be nice to use two 4890's since they are getting dirt cheap for DX11 like graphics.



for "DX11 like" do you mean... DX10?


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## Champ (Mar 27, 2010)

I thought I read OGL produced DX11 like graphics?


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## Mussels (Mar 27, 2010)

Champ said:


> I thought I read OGL produced DX11 like graphics?



with DX11 hardware.


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## Champ (Mar 27, 2010)

I was about to say I just read it was only with DX11 hardware.  Well, what's the point?  You still have to buy a DX11 card and you might as well use MS's stuff, so you get no issues, right?


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## PCpraiser100 (Mar 28, 2010)

haha Nvidia is slowpoke!


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## Mussels (Mar 29, 2010)

PCpraiser100 said:


> haha Nvidia is slowpoke!


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## devguy (Mar 29, 2010)

Champ said:


> I was about to say I just read it was only with DX11 hardware.  Well, what's the point?  You still have to buy a DX11 card and you might as well use MS's stuff, so you get no issues, right?



Well, the HD 5000 series are the first AMD GPUs with official tessellation support, but a tessellator has been built into AMD GPUs since the R600 (in fact, it even went into the x360 Xenos GPU).  From what I've read (it obviously will never be verified) is that the original DX10.0 spec was to include tessellation (hence why AMD included it).  However, nVidia didn't add such a component into its "DirectX 10.0 certified" g80 architecture, pressuring Microsoft to lax the API and shove off tessellation (and other features) for DirectX 10.1 and 11.

Using the Linux Unigine OpenGl demo (not sure with the Windows OpenGl renderer), one can use the tessellation option with a pre-RV870 GPU (not an option with DirectX 11).  Granted, the framerate takes a nose dive, but it is possible.  It is unclear if the Unigine demo is using the built in tessellator of a pre-RV870 GPU (RV770 in my case) or just doing it in software.  Because the Unigine demo (and Ubuntu Karmic and newer) require an R600 (or more recent GPU), one cannot see if tessellation would even work with a R500 or older GPU.  It'd be cool if someone with a pre-Fermi nVidia GPU tries to run the Unigine Linux demo with tessellation enabled and reports their results.

Finally, one more thing to keep in mind is that many stubborn people () chose to remain running Windows XP, and thus they loose out on the DirectX 10/11 features (regardless if their card is capable of them).  Should a game support OpenGl 4.0, it will run in XP with graphics comparable to the same game being rendered on Vista/7 under DirectX 11.

As an aside, I would like to do something I don't typically do, and that would be commend nVidia on their Fermi tessellator.  From benchmarks I've seen, Fermi's first generation tessellator eats the R870's tessellator for breakfast, yet AMD has had tessellation experience since the Xenos GPU (as I mentioned before).


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## TAViX (Mar 29, 2010)

@devguy

Indeed!! Unreal 2, Unreal Tournament 2, Counter Strike, Half Life, Quake 3 Arena, Serious Sam, and some other games are using the tessellation option when they detect an ATI card. But the feature was actually implemented or coded in game not in the DX driver...I think...

Anyway that feature wasn't called Tessellation but, ATI TruForm

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles/atitruform/

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=1476&p=4


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## Mussels (Mar 29, 2010)

TAViX said:


> @devguy
> 
> Indeed!! Unreal 2, Unreal Tournament 2, Counter Strike, Half Life, Quake 3 Arena, Serious Sam, and some other games are using the tessellation option when they detect an ATI card. But the feature was actually implemented or coded in game not in the DX driver...I think...
> 
> ...



yes! i knew it had another name, but had forgotten it.

Truform has been around for a VERY long time, but since NV never used it, it died off. It was mostly used in openGL games, where it was easier 'per hardware' features in


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## devguy (Mar 29, 2010)

TAViX said:


> @devguy
> 
> Indeed!! Unreal 2, Unreal Tournament 2, Counter Strike, Half Life, Quake 3 Arena, Serious Sam, and some other games are using the tessellation option when they detect an ATI card. But the feature was actually implemented or coded in game not in the DX driver...I think...
> 
> ...



Interesting.  From Wikipedia:





> This unit is reminiscent of ATI's earlier "TruForm" technology, used initially in the Radeon 8500, which performed a similar function in hardware.[5] While this tessellation hardware is not part of the current OpenGL or Direct3D requirements, and competitors such as the GeForce 8 series lack similar hardware, Microsoft has included Tessellation as part of their D3D10.1 future plans.[6] The "TruForm" technology from the past received little attention from software developers and was only utilized in a few game titles (such as Madden NFL 2004, Serious Sam, Unreal Tournament 2003 and 2004, and unofficially Morrowind), because it was not a feature shared with NVIDIA GPUs which had a competing Tessellation solution using Quintic-RT patches which met with even less support from developers.[7] Since the Xenos contains similar hardware, and Microsoft sees hardware surface tessellation as a major GPU feature with proposed implementation of hardware tessellation support in future DirectX releases (presumably DirectX 11),[4][6] dedicated hardware tessellation units may receive increased developer awareness in future titles. It remains to be seen whether ATI's implementation will be compatible with the eventual DirectX standard.



And about the R600 tessellator.


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## Baum (Mar 29, 2010)

no OpenGL 4.0 on Mobility HD 4650:
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/1600/unbenanntit.jpg

is this not the OpenCL a GPU api for "other tasks?"


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