# who should acquire amd??



## remixedcat (Sep 19, 2015)

Qualcomm
Or
Samsung

Or other?


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 19, 2015)

Bill Gates!


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## erocker (Sep 19, 2015)

Pizza Hut, maybe Microsoft.  I'd rather Samsung do it though as they would be real competition for Intel... If they can do CPU's/GPU's correctly.


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## manofthem (Sep 19, 2015)

erocker said:


> Pizza Hut



Very good idea!  Maybe for once their pizzas, bread sticks, and sauce will run hot!


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 19, 2015)

The color scheme is close...

...I'd like an A10 APU to go!


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## R-T-B (Sep 19, 2015)

At this point with their value, VIA could probably buy them out.  Would be interesting as VIA has an x86 license, albeit not an amd64 one.  That would solve that issue.


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## dorsetknob (Sep 19, 2015)

Google  and why not they got deep pockets
with ads like   "optimized for Google/you tube""


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## human_error (Sep 19, 2015)

Maybe Apple? AMD GPUs are already in macbooks, and they already have a design team for their own ARM based mobile SOCs. Buying AMD would let them own the design of CPU and GPU hardware in their devices, as well as AMDs patent portfolio.

Not suggesting this would be a good move for the rest of us, but for Apple it would give them even greater control of their hardware platform.


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## 64K (Sep 19, 2015)

I've been hearing rumors that Pepperidge Farms is considering buying them


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## OneMoar (Sep 19, 2015)

nobody let the rats go down with the ship


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## Aquinus (Sep 19, 2015)

The highest bidder. This is economics after all.


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## scevism (Sep 19, 2015)

Mr Miyagi and Jean-Claude Van Damme.


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## rtwjunkie (Sep 19, 2015)

Again? This has been discussed almost as often as the brand of TIM people use. 

No offense intended @remixedcat, but it's the 13 plus pages of supposition and arguing and hare-brained ideas that will follow that just leaves me exhausted.

I want AMD to succeed, and don't care if they do it themselves or get bought by Haribo, as long as someone does it.


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## 5DVX0130 (Sep 19, 2015)

I would say that all they need is to get new management that doesn't have sh*t for brains and an investor, that is if it was a couple years back. Alas it’s 2015 and that ship has already sailed, with the iceberg in sight. Now all that’s left is whether they have enough lifeboats to save what is to save.

Samsung would be the better choice. But in the end all that matters is who the highest bidder will be.


OneMoar said:


> nobody let the rats go down with the ship






To late for that.


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## scevism (Sep 19, 2015)

I've only got back into pc's the last couple of years but have always thought of AMD of being lower quality as INTEL / NVIDIA Being better?
I could be wrong but i dont know anything else?


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## qubit (Sep 19, 2015)

scevism said:


> I've only got back into pc's the last couple of years but have always thought of AMD of being lower quality as INTEL / NVIDIA Being better?
> I could be wrong but i dont know anything else?


No, unfortunately you're right.


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## scevism (Sep 19, 2015)

And being 2nd best in this game aint that bad isit $$$$$$? AMD has just got lazy there is not a 3rd party to kick them up the ass at the end of the day.


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## cadaveca (Sep 19, 2015)

qubit said:


> No, unfortunately you're right.


AMD isn't lower quality. They simply don't offer the same type of performance for your dollar. But given that they are on older process technology compared to Intel, I think they've done fairly well in the CPU space, and GPUs are fine, too. APUs need lower power consumption.

As long as AMD sells every single product it "makes" (hint: it makes ZERO consumer-focused products, other companies do that for them), and does so without a loss, then they are good.

There is a lot they _could_ do. But ultimately they only have a job to make money, not make amazing products.


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## newtekie1 (Sep 19, 2015)

Intel buys the graphics side, nVidia buys the CPU side.


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## scevism (Sep 19, 2015)

newtekie1 said:


> Intel buys the graphics side, nVidia buys the CPU side.


In a nutshell that is the fact.


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## HumanSmoke (Sep 19, 2015)

Probably no one.
Samsung has no use for the IP unless it's for the cross-license deals AMD has in place with Nvidia. Only valid if the Samsung/Nvidia litigation looks like costing the former.
Qualcomm - not likely, unless AMD basically give the IP away to QC for nothing...again
Microsoft and Apple. Why take on a loss making operation when you can get AMD to sweat bullets and basically work gratis by contracting their services?
The Al Nahyan family ( via ATIC/Mubadala). Major share holder in AMD and owner of GlobalFoundries. The products of one help feed the revenue of the other. Chances of the US DoJ sanctioning the sale of a company whose IP is a cornerstone for the U.S. electronics industry to an Islamic state? 0% The climate hasn't improved since the UAE first attempted a major move into US industry.

Any new owner has to contend with starting from scratch in a fight against Intel, since the discrete graphics market, _so we're told_, is on borrowed time (Who invests in a vanishing market?), and that sector is already divided into three camps. Intel and its OEM's (who are very likely happy with the current situation), and two RISC based ecosystems that AMD hasn't contributed anything to.

So, why buy a company when you can lure the engineers away with better R&D budgets, and pick over the IP and licence/buy what you want rather than having to deal with the whole debt, staffing, redundancy issues that come with acquiring a company. Beats me why AMD don't just take a leaf out of ARM Holding's book - turn into a design house and just licence IP - architecture, core, logic macros - and let the individual companies licensing the tech invest their own R&D for specific applications, while spinning off existing product partnerships to generate some immediate cash to settle up some debt.


cadaveca said:


> As long as AMD sells every single product it "makes" (hint: it makes ZERO consumer-focused products, other companies do that for them), *and does so without a loss*, then they are good.


That sounds curiously like AMD fan fiction. AMD simply aren't hardwired for that, and have demonstrated it on numerous occasions - the latest one being the "buy SeaMicro because Intel is doing something" strategy. The same thinking got the company into the present situation. Flush with cash with K7 revenue (and Intel falling over themselves), the company could either invest or put the cash aside for R&D and an ordered expansion. Sanders said "fuck it, I'm going all in" and poured money into Dresden trying to go for an Intel kill that was never going to happen when the safe bet was to ally with UMC or TSMC and outsource production to keep the shelves stocked and the OEMs happy...but, no! Sanders was old school, and if you didn't make the silicon yourself you were no better than the fabless plebs taking over the industry. Not content with overextending the company on a long term gamble, Hector decides to mortgage the company by pouring $2bn in cash that AMD didn't have into buying ATI - again, rather than doing the sane thing - licence the IP or at least the audit the company you plan on taking over. A company on one else was particularly interested in buying.


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## natr0n (Sep 19, 2015)

The Arabs from Dubai.They have more $$$ than anyone to invest in new tech.

They drive gold plated/solid gold cars because they can. Money is nothing to them.

being serious too


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## rtwjunkie (Sep 19, 2015)

natr0n said:


> The Arabs from Dubai.They have more $$$ than anyone to invest in new tech.
> 
> They drive gold plated/solid gold cars because they can. Money is nothing to them.
> 
> being serious too



Read the post above. U.S. Government would never allow it.


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## HumanSmoke (Sep 19, 2015)

natr0n said:


> The Arabs from Dubai.They have more $$$ than anyone to invest in new tech.
> They drive gold plated/solid gold cars because they can. Money is nothing to them.
> being serious too


AMD's principle shareholder, Mubadala ( the business face of the Al Nahyan royal family) is from Abu Dhabi.
Guaranteed that the U.S. DoJ won't allow U.S. IP that affects not just AMD but all modern x86 systems and infrastructure to be administered by an Islamic state. You'd get better odds on China, a Russian oligarch, or North Korea assuming control.


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## cadaveca (Sep 19, 2015)

HumanSmoke said:


> AMD's principle shareholder, Mubadala ( the business face of the Al Nahyan royal family) is from Abu Dhabi.
> Guaranteed that the U.S. DoJ won't allow U.S. IP that affects not just AMD but all modern x86 systems and infrastructure to be administered by an Islamic state. You'd get better odds on China, a Russian oligarch, or North Korea assuming control.


What if they just gave me the money to do it for them? There are ways around this.


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 19, 2015)

DoJ doesn't care, seriously.



natr0n said:


> The Arabs from Dubai.They have more $$$ than anyone to invest in new tech.
> 
> They drive gold plated/solid gold cars because they can. Money is nothing to them.
> 
> being serious too


Bill Gates has far more money and you don't see him doing that.  Buffett too.  You're describing the culture of ruling class in the Middle East.  Remember, a billion dollars would almost buy you a 1000 Bugatti Veyrons.  In the context of wealth, gold plated cars are actually quite small; moreover, I think the Arabs are more concerned about Islamic infighting changing borders than acquiring a struggling US company.

Gates and Buffett could easily buyout AMD in its entirety with personal money.  Buffett is more likely than Gates if Buffett thinks he can turn the company around for big profits.


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## qubit (Sep 19, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> AMD isn't lower quality. They simply don't offer the same type of performance for your dollar. But given that they are on older process technology compared to Intel, I think they've done fairly well in the CPU space, and GPUs are fine, too. APUs need lower power consumption.
> 
> As long as AMD sells every single product it "makes" (hint: it makes ZERO consumer-focused products, other companies do that for them), and does so without a loss, then they are good.
> 
> There is a lot they _could_ do. But ultimately they only have a job to make money, not make amazing products.


No, it's not the older process technology that makes their products lower quality - that just makes them lower performance. I'm talking about dumbass things like putting ridiculously noisy chokes on the R9 Nano, coolers that are extremely noisy and are too weak to cool the GPU properly such as the R9 290, see W1zz's comment here. They have a history of compromising their products with idiotic decisions like this. That they then charge top dollar for it with the R9 Nano makes the gaff even worse and a complete dealbreaker.

While NVIDIA don't always make perfect products, I don't see them compromising those products so badly, ever.

Then we have Bulldozer. Big hype, big name, shit performance. How embarrassing.


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## Jetster (Sep 19, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Read the post above. U.S. Government would never allow it.



They already bought the US Gov

But I think Intel is in the mix for AMD at least for the graphics part


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 19, 2015)

qubit said:


> Then we have Bulldozer. Big hype, big name, shit performance. How embarrassing.


Performance is relative.  Intel made AMD look bad.  There's not much AMD could do about it because Intel already had the process advantage.


I also think people make Nano out to be much more than it is.  AMD doesn't even have the supply to move lots of the cards even if they were offered at $300.  Nano isn't going to impact AMD's bottom line much, if at all.  Fiji, as a whole, isn't going to sell well which is why they're rebranding all of their cards to 3## series.  The 3## series is AMD's cash cow.


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## Atomic77 (Sep 19, 2015)

I think Intel should acquire amd and then make everything intel inside that will make it so theres no competition and there won't be anything to worry about when it comes to Processors.


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## btarunr (Sep 19, 2015)

The only company that can tell Intel to let AMD keep its x86 license post-acquisition is Microsoft.


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## rtwjunkie (Sep 19, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> I think Intel should acquire amd and then make everything intel inside that will make it so theres no competition and there won't be anything to worry about when it comes to Processors.



Respectfully, you've not given this much thoight have you?! You literally have no idea of the repurcussions on consumers, costwise and lack of any innovation.


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## NC37 (Sep 19, 2015)

human_error said:


> Maybe Apple? AMD GPUs are already in macbooks, and they already have a design team for their own ARM based mobile SOCs. Buying AMD would let them own the design of CPU and GPU hardware in their devices, as well as AMDs patent portfolio.
> 
> Not suggesting this would be a good move for the rest of us, but for Apple it would give them even greater control of their hardware platform.



Apple is pretty much in bed with Intel however, one of the biggest reasons Apple would want to is yes, so they could then completely close their hardware. Remember Apple has delusions about appliance computers. They would love to do everything in house. Being in bed with Intel is great for them, but they are still at Intel's mercy and it is known that Jobs did not like Intel's pace with integrated graphics. Heck I'm a big Jobs critic because I don't like what he turned Apple into, but I took that quote of his and keep it in my sig. It remains relevant even today. Intel has only gotten better because AMD pushed it with APUs. Had APUs not existed, Intel wouldn't even have anything close to IRIS.

Even before the x86 switch, Apple was at the mercy of Motorola and IBM. It has been a long time issue with Macs. Buying AMD would remove that problem. It would also mean they buy back the chip designer that made all their A series ARM chips. That might be worth it unless their current team is doing fine working off his notes. Remember, AMD coaxed him back from Apple and now we've got Zen right around the corner.

Microsoft maybe however their business model has always been more software oriented. Buying AMD would benefit their Xbox division but not too much more than that.

nVidia...well there is something. nVidia wants some of the tech AMD has. But it would never make it through the courts. Monopolize the market since AMD is the only real competitor in the GPU business. The same would happen if Intel tried to buy AMD. AMD can effectively avoid being bought out because they are key competitors in both CPU and GPU.


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## Toothless (Sep 19, 2015)

Well.. The saying is "AMD is for poor people" so would that make Little Caesars a contestant? Decent but cheap performance / pizza?


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## MadClown (Sep 19, 2015)

Nobody is going to buy AMD, they still have a few years to settle their debts last I checked.
Their cards are selling fine, and with how little Intel has improved their cpu lines over the past 4 years or so I don't think its that far-fetched to think that Zen will match or dare I say, surpass whatever Intel has.

Then there's the scenario that I am completely wrong...


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 19, 2015)

DEEEZ NUTZZZZ WILL BUY AMD!


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## phanbuey (Sep 19, 2015)

probably one of the more undervalued companies.... if they succeed, their stock will go up, if they get bought - their stock will go up.  They're not going anywhere for a while, and no one is expecting much from them while they are sitting on some interesting tech (Zen, HBM gpus).


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## Frick (Sep 19, 2015)

qubit said:


> No, it's not the older process technology that makes their products lower quality - that just makes them lower performance. I'm talking about dumbass things like putting ridiculously noisy chokes on the R9 Nano, coolers that are extremely noisy and are too weak to cool the GPU properly such as the R9 290, see W1zz's comment here. They have a history of compromising their products with idiotic decisions like this. That they then charge top dollar for it with the R9 Nano makes the gaff even worse and a complete dealbreaker.
> 
> While NVIDIA don't always make perfect products, I don't see them compromising those products so badly, ever.
> 
> Then we have Bulldozer. Big hype, big name, shit performance. How embarrassing.



What about all those GTX 970's with coil whine, and that 3.5GB thing? They still sell like hotcakes (deservedly so because the memory thing doesn't have an impact). The R9 290/x was pretty stupid sure, but Nvidia has had cards that were noisy as all heck too, but that doesn't matter as much because they are higher quality.

Their CPU's are of high quality too. I'm not sure how you measure that quality in a CPU though.

And as for Bulldozer... Well yes, it wasn't brilliant, but I still think at some point we'll look back and say they were too early with that design.

EDIT: IBM should buy them. Then we have two blues.


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## RCoon (Sep 19, 2015)

Nobody will buy AMD. The Radeon-HD graphics division will either operate autonomously and start actually making a profit as a separate entity, or somebody else will buy it. AMD will probably just become an ip company.


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## HumanSmoke (Sep 19, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> What if they just gave me the money to do it for them? There are ways around this.


Nice try. Mergers and acquisitions have this little thing called Due diligence. I'm sure if your bank account suddenly swelled to seven figures it might raise a few red flags.
On the other hand, you could approach the Abu Dhabi emirate and tell them you can launder the cash so it is untraceable....then split with the proceeds. No death penalty in the UAE for embezzlement, and even if you're caught what's the worst that can happen? They gave some American 10 years, so its got to be less for a Canadian, eh?


FordGT90Concept said:


> DoJ doesn't care, seriously.


Of course not. Why would the U.S. Government worry about selling a U.S. semiconductor business that is fully embedded in the U.S. economy to a federation who also own Stratign - a defence intelligence company specializing in signal and communications intelligence and malware with close ties to the Russian Federation that isn't allowed to operate its sales business within the U.S. ?


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## HalfAHertz (Sep 19, 2015)

I'm just gonna leave this here:
http://anandtech.com/show/9643/jim-keller-leaves-amd

First they split the GFX division after all that hard work integrating it, now this. The little hope that I had left for Zen is evaporating quickly...


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## INSTG8R (Sep 19, 2015)

HalfAHertz said:


> I'm just gonna leave this here:
> http://anandtech.com/show/9643/jim-keller-leaves-amd
> 
> First they split the GFX division after all that hard work integrating it, now this. The little hope that I had left for Zen is evaporating quickly...



This "gloom and doom" over Jim Keller leaving is SO backwards and has to stop....

He's finished Zen what does have to do there now? Sit and watch the silicon go by on the production line? Should they keep paying him to do nothing?


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## remixedcat (Sep 19, 2015)

Toothless said:


> Well.. The saying is "AMD is for poor people" so would that make Little Caesars a contestant? Decent but cheap performance / pizza?


5 dollar HOT-N-READDDYYYYYY  *wink*


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 19, 2015)

> Other projects in the pipeline at AMD CPU group include ARM-based AMD processors (K12), an ARM counterpart of sorts for Zen that is set to launch later on.


8| AMD is diversifying.  I wonder if they're going to make that ARM processor powerful enough to compete with x86.  If it does, AMD may have just found its new niche.


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## remixedcat (Sep 19, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> 8| AMD is diversifying.  I wonder if they're going to make that ARM processor powerful enough to compete with x86.  If it does, AMD may have just found its new niche.


 nvidia and qualcomm and to some extent samsung  allready got that niche there...


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## qubit (Sep 19, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Performance is relative.  Intel made AMD look bad.  There's not much AMD could do about it because Intel already had the process advantage.
> 
> 
> I also think people make Nano out to be much more than it is.  AMD doesn't even have the supply to move lots of the cards even if they were offered at $300.  Nano isn't going to impact AMD's bottom line much, if at all.  Fiji, as a whole, isn't going to sell well which is why they're rebranding all of their cards to 3## series.  The 3## series is AMD's cash cow.


It wasn't just Intel's process advantage, it was AMD's shared resources architecture that nailed Bulldozer. Zen is going back to a more traditional design and should hopefully be a lot better.

I agree that Nano is unlikely to sell well. The idiotic thing is that if they'd price it just a little lower and fix that stupid coil whine then I think it would. Seriously, this company just seems to be trying to sabotage itself at every turn. 



Frick said:


> What about all those GTX 970's with coil whine, and that 3.5GB thing? They still sell like hotcakes (deservedly so because the memory thing doesn't have an impact). The R9 290/x was pretty stupid sure, but Nvidia has had cards that were noisy as all heck too, but that doesn't matter as much because they are higher quality.
> 
> Their CPU's are of high quality too. I'm not sure how you measure that quality in a CPU though.
> 
> ...


Yes, NVIDIA messed up on the coil whine there and I did say they don't put out perfect products every time, but that's basically just one iffy product out of many good ones. And that 3.5GB thing was no miscalculation. They were dishonest about it and got away with it.  Still, they might hesitate to try it on again as given the controversy it kicked up customers may not be so forgiving next time.

Also, to be fair, my NVIDIA cards also have noticeable coil whine (thinking of GTX 285, GTX 580, GTX 780 Ti in particular) which is a bit annoying, but at least it's not a screamer like on this Nano and some of their previous cards like their flagship dual GPU 7990.


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 19, 2015)

remixedcat said:


> nvidia and qualcomm and to some extent samsung  allready got that niche there...


Not really.  They're all portable products with 10 watts are less.  I'm talking a ~100 watt ARM processor (could potentially have ~100 cores).  I could see the super computing and data processing markets eat them up.




qubit said:


> It wasn't just Intel's process advantage, it was AMD's shared resources architecture that nailed Bulldozer. Zen is going back to a more traditional design and should hopefully be a lot better.


Bulldozer isn't that bad but when you have 65nm competing against 32nm, 32nm competing against 22nm, and 28nm competing against 14nm, they lost before they started.  Doesn't matter what market you look at, AMD is attractive in price only--because they have no choice but to market them cheap.



qubit said:


> I agree that Nano is unlikely to sell well. The idiotic thing is that if they'd price it just a little lower and fix that stupid coil whine then I think it would. Seriously, this company just seems to be trying to sabotage itself at every turn.


Fiji itself is not cheap to produce.  I think they were forced to put it the $650 price point because that's what that silicon realestate is worth.  Sure it has a markup on it but I doubt it is huge.  AMD would love to sell it for much less but I doubt they can afford to.


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## qubit (Sep 19, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Fiji itself is not cheap to produce. I think they were forced to put it the $650 price point because that's what that silicon realestate is worth. Sure it has a markup on it but I doubt it is huge. AMD would love to sell it for much less but I doubt they can afford to.



I dunno how true that is, but if it is, just fix the coil whine then. It's so cheap to fix it anyway. A card like this is in its own form factor and performance category so can afford to be priced at a premium and should still sell reasonably well.


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## Basard (Sep 19, 2015)

erocker said:


> Pizza Hut, maybe Microsoft.



Lol... the first one that popped in my mind was Dominos....


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## JunkBear (Sep 19, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Read the post above. U.S. Government would never allow it.



You create a department there and with time you close the one in US due to lack of performance then you just got around the laws.


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## HumanSmoke (Sep 19, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Not really.  They're all portable products with 10 watts are less.  I'm talking a ~100 watt ARM processor (could potentially have ~100 cores).  I could see the super computing and data processing markets eat them up.


Good luck with that. K12 is basically missing in action ( timetable now slipped to 2017) , and Applied Micro (X-Gene) and Cavium (ThunderX - which has a boatload of partners on board already) are already available and deployed. ThunderX is already a 48-core part, and Skylark (X-Gene 3) a 64-core SoC.


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## alucasa (Sep 19, 2015)

TPU should buy AMD.

Don't mark my words but you heard it from here.


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## remixedcat (Sep 19, 2015)




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## Tatty_One (Sep 19, 2015)

I went "other", suggestion................ Apple, we need someone with more money than sense.


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 19, 2015)

HumanSmoke said:


> Good luck with that. K12 is basically missing in action ( timetable now slipped to 2017) , and Applied Micro (X-Gene) and Cavium (ThunderX - which has a boatload of partners on board already) are already available and deployed. ThunderX is already a 48-core part, and Skylark (X-Gene 3) a 64-core SoC.


So much for blind optimism. 

Unless AMD brought something unique to the table, they'd have to fight pretty hard for market share.


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## HossHuge (Sep 19, 2015)

I haven't checked my tix for the lottery last night so maybe I could buy them?  Is 55 million enough?


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## qubit (Sep 19, 2015)

Tatty_One said:


> I went "other", suggestion................ Apple, we need someone with more money than sense.


Oh yeah, Apple have money all right. They currently dwarf Microsoft if I remember correctly.

Regardless, AMD needs some serious investment right now and can become competitive again with the right leadership.


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## remixedcat (Sep 19, 2015)

Yep I know about Cavium they power Xirrus wifi arrays!!


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## GC_PaNzerFIN (Sep 19, 2015)

I am going to think out of the box here and say Asus/ASMedia should buy them. Whole platform development, manufacturing & global retail channels up and running. A lot of relevant technology patents at hand. Should be pretty good! 
Couple that with a fresh cash injection from investors that would surely follow I think it would give them good chances to succeed.


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## 64K (Sep 19, 2015)

Apple really is sitting on the top right now

200 billion dollars in cash, 183 billion dollars in revenue last year with a net income of 40 billion dollars and a present Market Cap of 702 billion dollars

and Microsoft

90 billion dollars in cash, 94 billion dollars in revenue last year with a net income of 12 billion dollars and a present Market Cap of 348 billion dollars

for comparison AMD

800 million dollars in cash, 5.5 billion dollars in revenue last year with a net loss of 400 million dollars and a present Market Cap of 1.5 billion dollars


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## rtwjunkie (Sep 19, 2015)

64K said:


> Apple really is sitting on the top right now
> 
> 200 billion dollars in cash, 183 billion dollars in revenue last year with a net income of 40 billion dollars and a present Market Cap of 702 billion dollars
> 
> ...



Thing is, Apple is dangerously dependant on one device. The majority of their income is from one device only, the iPhone.

It might be good for them to branch out.


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## Aquinus (Sep 19, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Thing is, Apple is dangerously dependant on one device. The majority of their income is from one device only, the iPhone.
> 
> It might be good for them to branch out.


The company I work for has purchased a reasonable amount (for a small business,) from them in terms of laptops. Considering how often I see people with them, I think the amount Apple makes on OS X driven devices might not be a little as you're lead to believe. Apple cut their losses on the server market when they realized that they suck at doing servers, so I suspect they're not taking anything close to a loss on their current lineup as it really hasn't changed much in the last several years other than hardware improvements and battery life.

IIRC, Apple still uses AMD for GPUs in the iMacs but, nVidia on the expensive 15 MBPs and Intel on everything else. I think Apple is just happy with the options it has as it is considering it has a bit of everything.


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## dorsetknob (Sep 19, 2015)

UNTIL the US Government give a corporation Tax Break Apple will not Repatriate their profits to buy AMD.
Apple would Sooner Hoard their Tax Manipulated Profits OFFSHORE


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## HumanSmoke (Sep 19, 2015)

dorsetknob said:


> UNTIL the US Government give a corporation Tax Break Apple will not Repatriate their profits to buy AMD.
> Apple would Sooner Hoard their Tax Manipulated Profits OFFSHORE


The tax situation is what drives a few of the offshore acquisitions. Microsoft has so much cash offshore that it can't transfer it to the U.S. without incurring a substantial tax penalty - hence using the European funds to buy companies like Nokia, which seems like a giant outlay of cash, but was devalued because of the geographic area it was stuck in.


Aquinus said:


> I think Apple is just happy with the options it has as it is considering it has a bit of everything.


Which is why it is happy to have competitors cutting margins to the bone in order to supply them. Buying AMD (or any hardware company) means you have to support the product even if costs rise, or it underperforms, or is late to market, or a superior product arrives in the market.


FordGT90Concept said:


> Unless AMD brought something unique to the table, they'd have to fight pretty hard for market share.


I really think that K12 going MIA and SkyBridge being canned is indicative of why Keller left. The original project was presented as an entire ecosystem that Keller would oversee that would marry x86, ARM, and an interconnect to allow any permutation of both architectures. I suspect that K12's R&D relegation and SkyBridge's cancellation are indicators of a wider issue concerning AMD's need to prioritize R&D - so it is very possible that the vastly scaled down project is at odds with what Keller originally envisioned he he took the position. The timing seems bad for any other conclusion. If Zen and K12 were fully on track, I would suspect that Keller would stay on board at least until the whitepaper presentations (if not launch).


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## Frick (Sep 19, 2015)

Aquinus said:


> so I suspect they're not taking anything close to a loss on their current lineup



This is so true for everything Apple is doing. Retailers selling phones for instance usually has something around a 20% profit (at least where I live) on most phones and tablets, on iDevices that number is about 7%. Who pockets all that money? Apple.


----------



## Solaris17 (Sep 19, 2015)

I'll probably do it honestly. I just got paid what are they worth ATM like $300?


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 20, 2015)

HumanSmoke said:


> I really think that K12 going MIA and SkyBridge being canned is indicative of why Keller left. The original project was presented as an entire ecosystem that Keller would oversee that would marry x86, ARM, and an interconnect to allow any permutation of both architectures. I suspect that K12's R&D relegation and SkyBridge's cancellation are indicators of a wider issue concerning AMD's need to prioritize R&D - so it is very possible that the vastly scaled down project is at odds with what Keller originally envisioned he he took the position. The timing seems bad for any other conclusion. If Zen and K12 were fully on track, I would suspect that Keller would stay on board at least until the whitepaper presentations (if not launch).


----------



## NC37 (Sep 20, 2015)

Frick said:


> What about all those GTX 970's with coil whine, and that 3.5GB thing? They still sell like hotcakes (deservedly so because the memory thing doesn't have an impact). The R9 290/x was pretty stupid sure, but Nvidia has had cards that were noisy as all heck too, but that doesn't matter as much because they are higher quality.
> 
> Their CPU's are of high quality too. I'm not sure how you measure that quality in a CPU though.
> 
> ...



They sell because people are stupid and don't read. Plus AMD waited too long on the 390s and rode the 290s. If AMD had struck sooner with the 390s, we'd be probably seeing a good price war as nVidia cannot compete with the 390s on price. For the same price as a 970 with 3.5GB and frame stuttering you get a 8GB 390 that beats it in performance and has no stuttering, plus is ready for future games....AMD waited 6 months, underwhelmed everyone, which in turn helped 970 sales.

Who knows, if AMD had struck sooner, maybe nVidia would have released a 970 with only 3.5GB and no stuttering issue. That is really all it needs. Course the 900 series has been utter shit the moment they announced the 960 would be a 128bit card and the 204 would be leveraged for the high end.

CPUs are mixed. Quality is good but builds are moronic. AMD has had years now to tweak APUs and keep ahead of Intel but literally they've just rehashed the same crap. BD in quad setups is terrible no matter what refinements you do to the core, yet they keep promoting it. Using RAM for VRAM is another problem that I expected they'd address before Intel caught up...they didn't do it. Intel now has chips with fast RAM added that can beat APUs.

Literally they released Trinity and that was the end of any real refinements in APUs. GP processing then came too late and is so limited in usefulness that there is no real point to it. Not to mention they've lacked L3 all these years as well.

I recently did a build for a friend's mother. She needed something simple and instead of going with an APU like I did years ago for a relative, I did a Haswell i3 build. Damn its snappy. Much more confident in her getting 5+years out of that than I am an APU build.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Sep 20, 2015)

@NC37 please tell me which frame stuttering I have that I don't actually have? I actually do read, and knowingly bought a 970 100ME for my fiance in April. Guess what? No coil whine. And the 3.5GB memory issue? Non-existent.  She runs a 25" 1080p monitor and no game has even breached the 3GB barrier.

Why did we buy it? Because it was $300, used less energy and ran cooler than my 780, and slightly outperforms it.  Those are all facts that run counter to the things that you apparently know how to repeat from web postings.


----------



## Jborg (Sep 20, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> @NC37 please tell me which frame stuttering I have that I don't actually have? I actually do read, and knowingly bought a 970 100ME for my fiance in April. Guess what? No coil whine. And the 3.5GB memory issue? Non-existent.  She runs a 25" 1080p monitor and no game has even breached the 3GB barrier.
> 
> Why did we buy it? Because it was $300, used kess energy and ran cooler than my 780, and slightly outperforms it.  Those are all facts that run counter to the things that you apparently know how to repeat from web postings.



The 970 Stuttering issue seems to be very subjective... I have a 970 and it runs GTA 5 at a reasonable FPS.... 55-59 FPS @ 1080p thats what I mainly play... The game stutters a bit here and there but in my opinion is more the game itself. Also I have a crap ton of mods installed which could add to FPS loss/so called stuttering.


----------



## AlwaysHope (Sep 20, 2015)

I hope AMD do not sell out to anyone or any company, Chipzilla (intel) needs competition, oppps.. my apologies... markets NEED competition..  more options for consumers is better than limited ones imo.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 21, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> I think Intel should acquire amd and then make everything intel inside that will make it so theres no competition and there won't be anything to worry about when it comes to Processors.


What are you worrying about competition, choice ,odd reply all in all intel have little to gain bar gfx ip which in all likelihood has some legal ties to its use also ,just non disclosed.


----------



## remixedcat (Sep 21, 2015)

I knew someone back in 2006 that went by the name AMD_ZEN has it been hyped up since that long ago!??


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 21, 2015)

I know VIA isn't a serious contender, but I mean really, why not?  Don't they have an existing x86 license?


----------



## Frag_Maniac (Sep 21, 2015)

How about KFC, they'll let anybody be their spokesman lately. Kinda fits right in with AMD's crazy marketing tactics.


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 21, 2015)

Frag Maniac said:


> How about KFC, they'll let anybody be their spokesman lately. Kinda fits right in with AMD's crazy marketing tactics.



Somehow I get images of a massively obese Ruby and a bucket of Fried Chicken.

It won't go away either...


----------



## dorsetknob (Sep 21, 2015)

People should read this  
AMD: x86 license deal with Intel can’t block our merger or takeover  

Advanced Micro Devices has a cross-licensing agreement with Intel Corp. under which the companies use intellectual property (IP) and patents invented by each other. For example, AMD can develop and sell microprocessors compatible with Intel’s x86 instruction set architecture and featuring various extensions, whereas Intel can design and ship central processing units that utilize IP and extensions originally created by AMD. Since the companies are continually developing new technologies, the list of IP that is a part of the agreement is constantly updated.

“It is a cross-license, they use our technology all the time, especially in the x86 space that AMD has innovated in […] and there are patterns in place for that,” said Devinder Kumar at Jefferies global technology, media and telecom conference. “There is a lot of stuff that we invented or we deployed first, which the competition uses, it is not a one thing or three, which is a mistaken perception on the market that it is AMD using technologies that the competition has, as opposed to the other way around, it is a cross-license.”

Both companies take advantage of the cross-license agreement since this allows the chip designers to relatively quickly incorporate new functionality into products, which is a good for the industry in general. However, the pact has a number of limitations. For example, the companies are not allowed to build processors that are compatible with competitor’s infrastructure (e.g., sockets, mainboards, etc.). The companies also cannot change their ownership, merge with other companies on certain terms or enter into certain kind of joint-venture agreements that effectively change their ownership.

The cross-license agreement is automatically terminated when one of the parties changes its ownership or control. Many analysts believe that this clause in the agreement has kept multiple companies and strategic investors away from AMD because without an cross-license deal with Intel the company loses legal rights to build x86-compatible processors. Products containing Intel’s x86 and other IP account for 70 per cent of AMD’s revenue. However, AMD’s CFO denies that AMD will face drastic problems in case there is a change of control.

“Is there anything, any impediment from an M&A or joint-venture standpoint? The answer is no, there is no impediment from an overall M&A standpoint regarding the cross-license,” said Mr. Kumar.

Since Intel does use intellectual property of AMD inside its chips, it needs an agreement with AMD. However, it should be noted that if the cross-license between AMD and Intel is terminated because a party gets acquired by a third company, licenses granted to another party will survive unless that other party gets acquired too (i.e., if AMD is taken over, Intel sustains rights to AMD’s IP), in accordance with the term 5.2d of the agreement. The same happens if one company gets bankrupt.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...intel-cannot-block-our-merger-or-acquisition/


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 22, 2015)

Yup, a new cross license deal would be formed with whomever bought AMD.  Intel needs AMD64 just as AMD needs x86.  Intel isn't going to fight to end AMD by denying the license because that would draw the ire of the FTC and DOJ.


----------



## Atomic77 (Sep 22, 2015)

Wouldn't that solve this issue if AMD and Intel Merged into one large company? It would be like a win win for everyone they both need each other to survive,


----------



## lilhasselhoffer (Sep 22, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> Wouldn't that solve this issue if AMD and Intel Merged into one large company? It would be like a win win for everyone they both need each other to survive,



Troll, or idiot?

I ask because those are the only two possibilities.  Considering our public school system...I have no way to gauge the response.

What you are proposing is a monopoly.  Only one company would own the entire rights to x86-64 processors.  That kind of monopoly isn't tolerated, and if you don't agree perhaps you should look at MS, Standard Oil, and so many other monopolies that the government busted because they were absolutely screwing consumers over.  Capitalism is great when there's competition, but crap at dealing with a monopoly.  That's why we have a government to protect us.



Edit:
If you want an apology, read on page 6.  I reread everything I said, and have yet to figure out how this is blatantly calling someone an idiot.  I ask whether the poster is trolling or being an idiot.  An idiot in the exact same way I took the troll from Cadaveca.  

Additionally, my other comments (without direct relevance) have been scrubbed from the thread.  No additional ones will be made, and I won't be responding any more.

Finally, a personal note if anyone cares.  I apologized for my conduct prior to anyone suggesting it, and have taken this as a learning opportunity.  I stated as such.  If you'd like to twist the knife a little harder, because you decided not to read the apology, have fun.


----------



## cadaveca (Sep 22, 2015)

So, in other words, AMD is shopping itself out to interested parties. Oh shite.


----------



## Blue-Knight (Sep 22, 2015)

Am I the only one who voted "Qualcomm"? 

 LOL!


----------



## yogurt_21 (Sep 22, 2015)

^ no I did as well. Samsung AMD screams of bloatware. Can you imaging catalyst drivers by Samsung? All the sudden each driver would be 1GB and be packed with buyware.


----------



## cadaveca (Sep 22, 2015)

Qualcomm and ATI had very good relations in the past. AMD sold the handset division to them. Yet at the same time, Qualcomm has been acting like AMD has been, cutting the workforce and spinning internal divisions into separate companies, but at the same time, they are also investing in other companies too. That said, the only company I think could truly bring AMD into a true market leader is Google.


----------



## 64K (Sep 23, 2015)

Google is sitting on a pile of cash around $60 billion dollars USD. They could buy AMD and turn the train wreck company around to success.


----------



## Kanan (Sep 23, 2015)

Nobody, I like AMD how it is and I wish them good luck!


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 23, 2015)

Kanan said:


> Nobody, I like AMD how it is and I wish them good luck!



If they don't turn their profits around and continue operating like this, there won't BE an AMD in 3-4 years.


----------



## Kanan (Sep 23, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> If they don't turn their profits around and continue operating like this, there won't BE an AMD in 3-4 years.


Simply "turning profits around"? What you essentially mean is they need to manage the company better, produce better products, invest better and research better. I think they already started doing this, IF Zen and next Gen graphics are good at least. If not ... well, everybody knows that story.


----------



## 95Viper (Sep 23, 2015)

Realtek... would be an interesting choice.
Or, maybe, one of the large monitor manufacturers.


----------



## remixedcat (Sep 23, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Qualcomm and ATI had very good relations in the past. AMD sold the handset division to them. Yet at the same time, Qualcomm has been acting like AMD has been, cutting the workforce and spinning internal divisions into separate companies, but at the same time, they are also investing in other companies too. That said, the only company I think could truly bring AMD into a true market leader is Google.


Like atheros


----------



## rtwjunkie (Sep 23, 2015)

Kanan said:


> Simply "turning profits around"? What you essentially mean is they need to manage the company better, produce better products, invest better and research better. I think they already started doing this, IF Zen and next Gen graphics are good at least. If not ... well, everybody knows that story.



You forgot about managing the company better. No matter how good your product is, if you suck at management, your company will go downhill fast...and they are already there.


----------



## remixedcat (Sep 23, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Qualcomm and ATI had very good relations in the past. AMD sold the handset division to them. Yet at the same time, Qualcomm has been acting like AMD has been, cutting the workforce and spinning internal divisions into separate companies, but at the same time, they are also investing in other companies too. That said, the only company I think could truly bring AMD into a true market leader is Google.


Adreno is an anagram for Radeon


----------



## Kanan (Sep 23, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> You forgot about managing the company better. No matter how good your product is, if you suck at management, your company will go downhill fast...and they are already there.


Reread please? I wrote exactly that and more. ^^ And if they are there, we will see next year I'd say.


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 23, 2015)

Kanan said:


> Reread please? I wrote exactly that and more. ^^ And if they are there, we will see next year I'd say.



Indeed.  You did.

However, profits for last quarter show they have not been competitive from a profitability perspective.


----------



## Kanan (Sep 23, 2015)

Thats true, sadly. New Fiji is too expensive / not good enough, maybe "Nano" will change that "a bit". xD AMD is eagerly awaiting Zen and 16/14nm like me I think. ^^


----------



## rtwjunkie (Sep 23, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> Indeed.  You did.
> 
> However, profits for last quarter show they have not been competitive from a profitability perspective.


Indeed he didn't.  He only mentioned the good products coming out, AFTER he mentioned the IF factors they COULD be doing, including better management.  His post sounded as if they have good future products coming out, so they will be all set, leaving out any mention of their progress at management.


----------



## Atomic77 (Sep 23, 2015)

I am not a troll or  a idiot by the way. I thought what I said before was a good idea.


----------



## phanbuey (Sep 23, 2015)

apple


----------



## Atomic77 (Sep 23, 2015)

Tech Power Up.


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 23, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> I am not a troll or  a idiot by the way. I thought what I said before was a good idea.



Don't take it personally.  You weren't really on to a good track with that thought process, but no one should call anyone an idiot.  It's just bad manners.


----------



## CrackerJack (Sep 23, 2015)

remixedcat said:


> Qualcomm
> Or
> Samsung
> 
> Or other?



Wal-Mart


----------



## lilhasselhoffer (Sep 23, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> I am not a troll or  a idiot by the way. I thought what I said before was a good idea.



I've been asked to be more brief, and that is a brief a response as I can muster.

Taking that particular brake off the discussion, my most respectful response is that you are either trolling because that idea is insanely stupid and laughable, or you are an idiot that doesn't understand the ramifications of what you said so flippantly. 

Who exactly has patent licensing for x86 processors?  Who is actually producing a decent volume of said processors?  Now, who owns a bunch of the patents for current GPU technologies?  Who makes current discrete GPUs?  In case you missed it, the answers to these questions are:
AMD, Intel, and VIA to some extent
AMD and Intel
AMD and Nvidia
AMD and Nvidia

Kinda seems like the list of people allowed to use this technology, because of IP rights and protections, boils down to one of three companies.  Remove AMD from the above equation, and you've got one CPU player and 2 GPU players.  The problem with that, other than the monopoly, is that GPUs depend upon CPUs.  If this somehow got past regulation, Intel could theoretically crush Nvidia by inventing a much faster GPU interconnect and not licensing the technology to Nvidia.  Intel GPUs would therefore always be better than Nvidia, using a monopoly on critical infrastructure to eliminate competition. 

Do you understand why this is stupid?  Why the very notion that a monopoly should be tolerated is either the idea of an idiot or a fool?  If not, let's just look back at history to inform us: https://ministryoffear.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/10-greatest-monopolies/
In each and every one of those ten cited cases (which are only a fraction of the anti-trut suits brought to court) consumers got boned.  Price fixing, blatantly terrible decision making, and generally terrible business practices are the hallmark of monopolies.  Consumers are bilked out of more cash, for an inferior product, that they have no choice but to pay for.  People moan now about the price of Intel CPUs, but just imagine if your next dual core processor was $500 because Intel could get away with charging that much for it.  Think that's a stretch, then obviously you're uninformed.  Intel has been busted already for anti-competitive business practices against AMD.  It couldn't be much of a response if I didn't have a link though: http://www.extremetech.com/computin...rs-over-amd-athlon-benchmarking-shenanigans?=

That's right, Intel lied to have their product move in the face of a superior competitor.  Rather than admit that the decision was bad (which they did with the switch to the Core2 architecture), they lied to consumers.  When placed in the same situation (Bulldozer), AMD has cherry picked testing, but never fully fabricated results.  You are suggesting that a company with a reputation for lying be allowed a monopoly over a vital industry.  That is so fundamentally stupid that, again, only an idiot or troll would say it.  The former because they were so misinformed, and the latter to get a rise out of people who can't stand seeing something so stupid said aloud. 



If I was to be immensely generous, I'd say that you are an optimist.  Somehow, despite the track record, you believe Intel would use a monopoly on an IP to deliver a better product at a fair price.  Unfortunately, that moves past optimist territory back firmly into the idiot range.  Intel would have financial incentives to overcharge, no competitive market force to balance their costs, and worst of all no reason to improve their products.  It isn't hard to imagine this new conglomeration of AMD and Intel demanding consumers pay huge sums of money for inferior products, because they already did it.  If all of this somehow fails to get you to understand why the suggestion made is flawed, I have an answer for my original response.



Edit:
I'm not calling names here.  I'm stating that entrance into a discussion about which you are either fundamentally misinformed or have an indefensible position isn't exactly a way to further said discussion.  If I was to enter a debate about energy usage, and say that we should just outlaw anything but high efficiency lighting, would make me an idiot in that discussion, whether or not I was a genius otherwise.

Likewise, walking into a discussion about semiconductors, and suggesting that the only two real remaining competitors be merged, is a stupid introduction.  What's worse, there's no explanation as to why it would be a good idea.  Maybe you could elaborate and say that a governmental commission would be setup to prevent unfair pricing, maybe you'd think that the merger would force Intel to make the x86 structure open, the problem is none of this was brought up.  Without some reasonable explanation the idea is stupid.  Insisting that you aren't being an idiot, while not explaining why your patently stupid idea isn't, doesn't exactly scream intelligence.  

This is a forum, make your point.  All you've said thus far is "they should merge because they both make the same thing."  Run with it, give us something to work with.  If you can't meet that insanely low bar, then you really aren't discussing.  There are plenty of places to just post a blob of words, that don't require any defending because there is no discussion.  This forum isn't one of them.  Ideas here are only as good as their defense.


----------



## 64K (Sep 23, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> Wouldn't that solve this issue if AMD and Intel Merged into one large company? It would be like a win win for everyone they both need each other to survive,



Intel already has ~10 times the revenue of AMD and ~100 times the Market Cap.



Atomic77 said:


> I am not a troll or  a idiot by the way. I thought what I said before was a good idea.



Never start a defense with "I am not a troll or an idiot"  It will not end well.


----------



## Moofachuka (Sep 23, 2015)

Valve!!!


----------



## cadaveca (Sep 23, 2015)

lilhasselhoffer said:


> Edit:
> I'm not calling names here.



Yes you are. But whatever. Maybe you should consider that some of our users are not the age of majority, and lack both knowledge and life experience, and have a bit more tact in your responses. Not everyone in this world knows everything there is to know like you seem to.

ROFL.

I could care less about monopolies on the tech world, and personally, I think it'd be better if things were more expensive, and people had less access to tech. Cellphones and the internet are the devil's work, and you're sitting here defending it.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Sep 23, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Yes you are. But whatever. Maybe you should consider that some of our users are not the age of majority, and lack both knowledge and life experience, and have a bit more tact in your responses. Not everyone in this world knows everything there is to know like you seem to.
> 
> ROFL.
> 
> I could care less about monopolies on the tech world, and personally, I think it'd be better if things were more expensive, and people had less access to tech. Cellphones and the internet are the devil's work, and you're sitting here defending it.


DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ NUUUUUUUUUUTZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

HAVE SPOKEN!


----------



## 64K (Sep 23, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Yes you are. But whatever. Maybe you should consider that some of our users are not the age of majority, and lack both knowledge and life experience, and have a bit more tact in your responses. Not everyone in this world knows everything there is to know like you seem to.
> 
> ROFL.
> 
> I could care less about monopolies on the tech world, and personally, I think it'd be better if things were more expensive, and people had less access to tech. Cellphones and the internet are the devil's work, and you're sitting here defending it.



Then they should expect to be called out if they talk shit.


----------



## cadaveca (Sep 23, 2015)

64K said:


> Then they should expect to be called out if they talk shit.


Well, given that AMD has problems with silicon, and Intel has some of the best fabs, and has offered AMD fab time (if even jokingly), and the IP sharing agreement, it does kind of make sense that Intel would buy AMD, acquire the tech they share, and then spin off the GPU division back into ATI.

Monopolies be damned, since that's the only thing really preventing it. That and NOTHING else. Intel wants AMD's tech, or they wouldn't already have that agreement, and to make a single purchase to acquire that tech indefinitely would be a good business move. It woud probably put some people out of work, but I doubt it would truly be as bad as some might want to say it would be. People forget the purpose of patents, what they do, and also forget the fact that should a monopoly form, and Intel "slack off" on innovation, then no one will buy their products. THe idea that we should abhor a monopoly, beucase it'll amek a company lazy...is rather asinine in my books. Companies have to meet the needs of their customers, or they fail.

Also, it is a fact that with less hardware on the market, there will be less problems with software optimizations for different platforms, and then software might actually improve quite a bit, if there is only one x86 processor on the market. Simplicity can't be knocked.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Sep 23, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Well, given that AMD has problems with silicon, and Intel has some of the best fabs, and has offered AMD fab time (if even jokingly), and the IP sharing agreement, it does kind of make sense that Intel would buy AMD, acquire the tech they share, and then spin off the GPU division back into ATI.
> 
> Monopolies be damned, since that's the only thing really preventing it. That and NOTHING else. Intel wants AMD's tech, or they wouldn't already have that agreement, and to make a single purchase to acquire that tech indefinitely would be a good business move. It woud probably put some people out of work, but I doubt it would truly be as bad as some might want to say it would be. People forget the purpose of patents, what they do, and also forget the fact that should a monopoly form, and Intel "slack off" on innovation, then no one will buy their products. THe idea that we should abhor a monopoly, beucase it'll amek a company lazy...is rather asinine in my books. Companies have to meet the needs of their customers, or they fail.
> 
> Also, it is a fact that with less hardware on the market, there will be less problems with software optimizations for different platforms, and then software might actually improve quite a bit, if there is only one x86 processor on the market. Simplicity can't be knocked.



Exactly how does one "not buy their products" if a monopoly refuses to innovate?  I never thought I would hear what I always considered an intelligent person advocate for a one-company system!

Maybe we should do that for all motherboards, GPU's, cases, monitors, etc.  I think you might be tech-smart, but have no background in economics, and it shows.


----------



## BiggieShady (Sep 23, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Cellphones and the internet are the devil's work, and you're sitting here defending it.


If that's so TPU is 9th circle of hell ... I think I speak for all of us when I say we all knew it deep inside ...


----------



## cadaveca (Sep 23, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Exactly how does one "not buy their products" if a monopoly refuses to innovate?  I never thought I would hear what I always considered an intelligent person advocate for a one-company system!
> 
> Maybe we should do that for all motherboards, GPU's, cases, monitors, etc.  I think you might be tech-smart, but have no background in economics, and it shows.


LoL. How many posts have I made saying I'm an idiot? And you take me seriously?

Economics are dumb. So is societal structure and money.


PLeas also don't forget... if you own or use a cell phone, you have no idea what's going on in my head. The fact you have one says you are incapable of seeing things from my perspective. Intelligence has nothing to with it.


BTW, thanks for the vote of confidence, but really, I'm not that smart either. Like thanks for making me bear that responsibility.

Finally, think about that cell phone... is it x86? And what can you do with it? Anything an x86 CPU does, pretty much?



BiggieShady said:


> If that's so TPU is 9th circle of hell ... I think I speak for all of us when I say we all knew it deep inside ...




Ha! At least you had the foresight to see the tree in the forest.


----------



## 64K (Sep 23, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> LoL. How many posts have I made saying I'm an idiot? And you take me seriously?
> 
> Economics are dumb. So is societal structure and money.
> 
> ...




But it's not ok for you to be an idiot.

That's the point.

People respect you and look up to you.


----------



## cadaveca (Sep 23, 2015)

64K said:


> But it's no ok for you to be an idiot.
> 
> That's the point.
> 
> People respect you and look up to you.


But from my perspective, that only occurs because I am honest. I'm NOT very smart at all.

Please remember, I'm nearly 40, and haven't had a real job in years. Like nearly a decade. And I don't make any money doing reviews... and you think I'm not an idiot? The fact I even write for TPU says it all. I've been offered a job, a well paying job, doing reviews.. and said no, because I'm loyal to W1zz. Meanwhile, my kids need new shoes...

And I'll say it again, x86 CPUs aren't the only option, so Intel would not have a monopoly. Many tablets use ARM-based CPUs and do nearly everything an x86 system can do for most end users.


----------



## dorsetknob (Sep 23, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Finally, think about that cell phone... is it x86? And what can you do with it?



yup my phone is X86   it runs Android ( Intel inside ) features an Intel Atom Z2420 1.2Ghz CPU


----------



## darkangel0504 (Sep 23, 2015)

AMD stock is declining. Maybe Microsoft is going to buy AMD. It is really sad for a legacy company


----------



## lilhasselhoffer (Sep 23, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Well, given that AMD has problems with silicon, and Intel has some of the best fabs, and has offered AMD fab time (if even jokingly), and the IP sharing agreement, it does kind of make sense that Intel would buy AMD, acquire the tech they share, and then spin off the GPU division back into ATI.
> 
> Monopolies be damned, since that's the only thing really preventing it. That and NOTHING else. Intel wants AMD's tech, or they wouldn't already have that agreement, and to make a single purchase to acquire that tech indefinitely would be a good business move. It woud probably put some people out of work, but I doubt it would truly be as bad as some might want to say it would be. People forget the purpose of patents, what they do, and also forget the fact that should a monopoly form, and Intel "slack off" on innovation, then no one will buy their products. THe idea that we should abhor a monopoly, beucase it'll amek a company lazy...is rather asinine in my books. Companies have to meet the needs of their customers, or they fail.
> 
> Also, it is a fact that with less hardware on the market, there will be less problems with software optimizations for different platforms, and then software might actually improve quite a bit, if there is only one x86 processor on the market. Simplicity can't be knocked.



If I wanted to call someone a name I would have done so, not asked the question of idiot or troll.  Right now I'll call you an applicable name, hypocrite.  


You're on a technology site, arguing that competition is a bad thing.  Your argument, succinctly put, is that less variation would lead to better products.  Have you considered that what you are arguing for is Apple?  Maybe that hasn't sunk in, but it's the truth.  You're arguing for one company to be able to charge grossly overpriced values for older technology, because there's no viable competition (seriously, how much do they want for an iPOD?).  Likewise, technological innovation isn't a priority, as the iPhone might as well just be a clone of whatever the Samsung Galaxy introduced last year.


As to Intel being able to acquire AMD, you're in the right ballpark but playing the wrong game.  If Intel moved to acquire AMD it'd be a red tape nightmare.  There'd be push back from anti-trust lawyers, that would make any acquisition proceedings take a huge amount of time.  Once that decade plus of court fighting was over, Intel would basically be forced to open its patents up for licensing at a "fair" pricing.  That negotiation of fair pricing would take another decade, as any competent lawyer would drag their feet and argue out the relative value of every single patent.  What Intel wants is what they have, a hollow competitor that can actually occasionally develop something for them.  Why would you give that up, when even if you won you'd basically be forced to allow competition?



As far as patent law, you seem to be off base.  The express purpose of a patent is the government protecting creative works, by offering a limited monopoly on those creative works for the creators.  Said creators agree to have their inventions cataloged, so that when the limited monopoly is over their inventions can benefit the country.  Patent law was originally designed to protect the earning power of the people who made things, with the understood agreement that their works would not be theirs forever.  The bastardized version of patent law we have today doesn't come close to that lofty goal, and the rise of patent trolling an much extended patent duration mean less and less creative work is being turned into the public domain in a timely fashion.

Intel and AMD have recognized that patent law, as is, can cripple them.  As such, they've agreed to cross-licensing their technology in order to prevent any ugliness.  Intel maintains its lead by plowing money into its R&D and Fabs, but AMD still has access to advanced technologies so they can compete.  It's keeping your enemy alive, but too weak to fight you.  Intel has gotten very good at this.


If you're going to die by the "products must meet consumer desires" crap, then you're sadly mistaken.  The phrase you are looking for is "necessary industries can charge whatever they want, assuming there's no competition and no regulation."  Don't agree, then ask what Quantum of Solace was about (the actual story was even worse than the movie)?  Someone comes in to Bolivia, buys up the water treatment facilities, and jacks up the price of a vital resource 300% over night.  People are forced to pay that price, for the exact same thing, because they have no competition.  http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/bolivia/timeline.html

Your argument to support a monopoly is a farce.  Your argument that things would invariably be better with less competition is a farce.  You assume others are arrogant, childish, or simply ignorant to meet your whims.  I see your claims at maturity are hipocisy of the highest order.  When you can come back with a reasoned argument, do so.  Intel acquiring AMD isn't a reasonable argument for reasons that we've covered numerous times in the last several years, none of which have changed.


----------



## cadaveca (Sep 23, 2015)

lilhasselhoffer said:


> Your argument to support a monopoly is a farce.  Your argument that things would invariably be better with less competition is a farce.  You assume others are arrogant, childish, or simply ignorant to meet your whims.  I see your claims at maturity are hipocisy of the highest order.




A farce? Yes. The rest that I quoted? that's just your own supposition, but thanks for taking the time to respond. I'm not the one writing many paragraphs in response to what was obviously posted by a teenager who is a bit naïve. So I trolled you a bit. All those words to try to prove my opinion wrong, or me wrong or whatever... why? Because you feel the need to back up your opinion to my trolling?


Really though, I think you should have taken the humble road, and not even responded to his post. Instead, you're on this road, and I'm a pig making it all dirty so you get a little dirty too.

Mailman caught on from the let-off. Think about that for a moment.


----------



## nolafotoknut (Sep 23, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Yes you are. But whatever. Maybe you should consider that some of our users are not the age of majority, and lack both knowledge and life experience, and have a bit more tact in your responses. Not everyone in this world knows everything there is to know like you seem to.
> 
> ROFL.
> 
> I could care less about monopolies on the tech world, and personally, I think it'd be better if things were more expensive, and people had less access to tech. Cellphones and the internet are the devil's work, and you're sitting here defending it.


Nice. Although you could care less about monopolies, how do you think economies would be sustainable without competition?  As for technology being the devil's work, how are you able to access this site?  Seems to me, you support it as well since you use it.


----------



## cadaveca (Sep 23, 2015)

nolafotoknut said:


> Nice. Although you could care less about monopolies, how do you think economies would be sustainable without competition?  As for technology being the devil's work, how are you able to access this site?  Seems to me, you support it as well since you use it.


I don't care about financials. Everything should be free. I hate money as it's the major motivator for 99% of the problems around the world.

I was being a bit of an ass, tech does suck, but like any good prophet, I go to where the evil is to fight it tooth and nail.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Sep 23, 2015)

@cadaveca and I up in dis bitch!


----------



## cadaveca (Sep 23, 2015)

You just mad I got to wear the dress this time. Maybe AMD will wear the dress Intel buys, and be their bitch. Oh wait... that's already happening...


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Sep 23, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> You just mad I got to wear the dress this time. Maybe AMD will wear the dress Intel buys, and be their bitch. Oh wait... that's already happening...


No day mad.


----------



## lilhasselhoffer (Sep 23, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> A farce? Yes. The rest that I quoted? that's just your own supposition, but thanks for taking the time to respond. I'm not the one writing many paragraphs in response to what was obviously posted by a teenager who is a bit naïve. So I trolled you a bit. All those words to try to prove my opinion wrong, or me wrong or whatever... why? Because you feel the need to back up your opinion to my trolling?
> 
> 
> Really though, I think you should have taken the humble road, and not even responded to his post. Instead, you're on this road, and I'm a pig making it all dirty so you get a little dirty too.
> ...




So, you troll and expect an equally half-assed answer.  Bravo, I fell for your plan.  Slow clap.  Neither of us is the better off.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Sep 23, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> I don't care about financials. Everything should be free. I hate money as it's the major motivator for 99% of the problems around the world.
> 
> I was being a bit of an ass, tech does suck, but like any good prophet, I go to where the evil is to fight it tooth and nail.



Free? How is it Mailman and you are on the same side in this argument?  He has always come accross as an ardent anti-Socialist.  

It's like Bizarro-World today, LOL.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 23, 2015)

Moofachuka said:


> Valve!!!


That's not a bad idea.  Valve could use AMD's resources to leverage Steam OS as well as fast track VR development.


----------



## cadaveca (Sep 23, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Free? How is it Mailman and you are on the same side in this argument?  He has always come accross as an ardent anti-Socialist.
> 
> It's like Bizarro-World today, LOL.



OH, you didn't know that mailman has been my protégé for many years? I know its hard to tell because he is banned so often.



lilhasselhoffer said:


> So, you troll and expect an equally half-assed answer.  Bravo, I fell for your plan.  Slow clap.  Neither of us is the better off.



Like I said, I'm an idiot. But at least you aren't jumping down the young one's throat now, and instead are focused on me. Like, I could care less what anyone thinks about me. THe only people whose opinions I rally for are those of my children. Rather than calling his opinion idiotic, you could have chosen less harsh words. Seemed like you were looking for a fight, so I gave you an easy one. Yet, we are supposed to be a community, so rather than bashing someone down, reach out and help them take a step up higher, please?


----------



## dorsetknob (Sep 23, 2015)

nolafotoknut said:


> Nice. Although you could care less about monopolies, how do you think economies would be sustainable without competition?


the de facto standard for humanity is economy flagging go to war with someone


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Sep 23, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Free? How is it Mailman and you are on the same side in this argument?  He has always come accross as an ardent anti-Socialist.
> 
> It's like Bizarro-World today, LOL.


.......You missed it boss. cadaveca is practicing trollonomics.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Sep 23, 2015)

nobody should buy AMD. it should go into the dumpster.


----------



## cadaveca (Sep 23, 2015)

TheMailMan78 said:


> .......You missed it boss. cadaveca is practicing trollonomics.


Practicing, more like giving lessons. Oh the humanity, I like monopolies. Please everyone tell me how wrong I am.



Easy Rhino said:


> nobody you should buy AMD. it should go into the dumpster.



They can't. Intel needs them. So AMD won't be going anywhere until x64 goes bye-bye. They just might not have any new products for a while.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Sep 23, 2015)

TheMailMan78 said:


> .......You missed it boss. cadaveca is practicing trollonomics.



Oh, guess I got suckered in today. LMAO.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Sep 23, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Oh, guess I got suckered in today. LMAO.


Dude this whole thread has been troll bait since day one. Its almost as bad as my "Ebola and you" thread.


----------



## Frick (Sep 23, 2015)

I dunno, has dave always been this sort of almost edgy bleak troll dude? I seem to remember a time when he wasn't. I mean I'm not complaining, I've always felt Mailman is too lonely, but still.

And anyway, trolling lilhoff and Ford is always fun.


----------



## lilhasselhoffer (Sep 23, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> ...
> Like I said, I'm an idiot. But at least you aren't jumping down the young one's throat now, and instead are focused on me. Like, I could care less what anyone thinks about me. THe only people whose opinions I rally for are those of my children. Rather than calling his opinion idiotic, you could have chosen less harsh words. Seemed like you were looking for a fight, so I gave you an easy one. Yet, we are supposed to be a community, so rather than bashing someone down, reach out and help them take a step up higher, please?



To be frank, I seem to not yet have finesse.

TheMailMan called me earlier on long posts, so I tried to shorten them.  In shortening them I seem to have lost wit and become more of an ass.



On that note, my apologies @Atomic77.


----------



## cadaveca (Sep 23, 2015)

lilhasselhoffer said:


> To be frank, I seem to not yet have finesse.
> 
> TheMailMan called me earlier on long posts, so I tried to shorten them.  In shortening them I seem to have lost wit and become more of an ass.
> 
> ...


What my point is here is that Atomic77's response to your initial post, defending his own ,said it all, but you laid into him again. Once he responded, you could have seen that he wasn't coming at this from life experience. OR, is a fantastic troll.

You can make long posts all you like. Your opinion is valued. But attacking other memebers is not valued. IF you go after their opinion, you have to be very tactful, careful in the words you use.


In all seriousness though, I really think Google is the only real savior possible. Any other idea is just BS. Apple could be a contender, but given their locked-garden business model, having AMD restricted to Macs would suck.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Sep 23, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> What my point is here is that Atomic77's response to your initial post, defending his own ,said it all, but you laid into him again. Once he responded, you could have seen that he wasn't coming at this from life experience. OR, is a fantastic troll.
> 
> You can make long posts all you like. Your opinion is valued. But attacking other memebers is not valued. IF you go after their opinion, you have to be very tactful, careful in the words you use.
> 
> ...


I can see them going back to the "PowerPC" model they had years ago with the crap "sonnet" upgrades lol. Apple would love nothing more.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Sep 23, 2015)

Frick said:


> I dunno, has dave always been this sort of almost edgy bleak troll dude? I seem to remember a time when he wasn't. I mean I'm not complaining, I've always felt Mailman is too lonely, but still.
> 
> And anyway, trolling lilhoff and Ford is always fun.



It served it's purpose. Dave sacrificed himself to focus any attacks on him instead of Atomic 77. 

Well done!


----------



## yogurt_21 (Sep 23, 2015)

So since valve is trying to release their own console wouldn't it make sense that EA is also in the conversation? And Origin based console... wow tingly spine thing.

or maybe since apple got brought up Dell buys them and uses them exclusively in their products... these scenarios are making me sad.

might as well put the US Gov in the running, then they can spend all their time making things for the military


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Sep 23, 2015)

yogurt_21 said:


> So since valve is trying to release their own console wouldn't it make sense that EA is also in the conversation? And Origin based console... wow tingly spine thing.
> 
> or maybe since apple got brought up Dell buys them and uses them exclusively in their products... these scenarios are making me sad.
> 
> might as well put the US Gov in the running, then they can spend all their time making things for the military


FYI its illegal for the US government to make ANY weapons themselves. If its going to be used at a federal level (Military/Intelligence) it has to be bought from the public sector. The US buying a company is just madness. They don't need to anyway. They just create a federal agency, regulate any and everything they don't like then come up with a subsidized version of that market in the public sector bought by lobbyist then force the goods/service down the publics neck via taxes/IRS. Instant revenue for all the special interests and more centralized power for the elite. Everyone "wins". lol 

They don't need to buy a company when they own the market


----------



## yogurt_21 (Sep 23, 2015)

TheMailMan78 said:


> FYI its illegal for the US government to make ANY weapons themselves. If its going to be used at a federal level (Military/Intelligence) it has to be bought from the public sector. The US buying a company is just madness. They don't need to anyway. They just create a federal agency, regulate any and everything they don't like then come up with a subsidized version of that market in the public sector bought by lobbyist then force the goods/service down the publics neck via taxes/IRS. Instant revenue for all the special interests and more centralized power for the elite. Everyone "wins". lol
> 
> They don't need to buy a company when they own the market


So that puts Boeing, ATK, and etc in the running... and then we'll be forced to buy the govt spec version which won't work at all for our uses and while the price may be cheap our taxes will double?


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Sep 23, 2015)

yogurt_21 said:


> So that puts Boeing, ATK, and etc in the running... and then we'll be forced to buy the govt spec version which won't work at all for our uses and while the price may be cheap our taxes will double?


More like State Farm, All State, Liberty Mutual, United Healthcare, Aetna, Humana etc.. is a more relevant/direct comparison. Boeing and such get their kick backs via patents. Its not as direct.


----------



## yogurt_21 (Sep 23, 2015)

That sounds like ACA... crap. So you're saying we're attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?


----------



## Kanan (Sep 23, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Indeed he didn't.  He only mentioned the good products coming out, AFTER he mentioned the IF factors they COULD be doing, including better management.  His post sounded as if they have good future products coming out, so they will be all set, leaving out any mention of their progress at management.


Well I'm an optimist, some of you guys should be more optimistic too, it's not a bad thing.  And my optimism has reasons, I think AMD changed a lot since Rory Read left the company, they try to build quality products now, priced high and try to be a unique company not someone in the shadow of Nvidia. Thats a risk, but it can pay off if AMD delivers. Partly, they already did, the new Fiji products are good. The 390X has about the performance of a 980 and is priced less. Etc. I tend to see things positively rather than being negative.


----------



## dorsetknob (Sep 23, 2015)

yogurt_21 said:


> That sounds like ACA... crap. So you're saying we're attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?



or in Bastard latin  "" Digitus erectus anus insertum Rotatum ""


----------



## rtwjunkie (Sep 24, 2015)

Kanan said:


> Well I'm an optimist, some of you guys should be more optimistic too, it's not a bad thing.  And my optimism has reasons, I think AMD changed a lot since Rory Read left the company, they try to build quality products now, priced high and try to be a unique company not someone in the shadow of Nvidia. Thats a risk, but it can pay off if AMD delivers. Partly, they already did, the new Fiji products are good. The 390X has about the performance of a 980 and is priced less. Etc. I tend to see things positively rather than being negative.


 
Don't worry, I'm with you man, borderline between hopeful and optimistic.  I want them to get all the bilge pumps on the leaky ship operational!


----------



## Schmuckley (Sep 24, 2015)

What about this,though?
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9643/jim-keller-leaves-amd


----------



## cadaveca (Sep 24, 2015)

Frick said:


> I dunno, has dave always been this sort of almost edgy bleak troll dude? I seem to remember a time when he wasn't. I mean I'm not complaining, I've always felt Mailman is too lonely, but still.
> 
> And anyway, trolling lilhoff and Ford is always fun.



Um, actually, yes, I have always been. The best troll is the troll you don't recognize. I've never had the patience for people being rude, and I play the long game.




Schmuckley said:


> What about this,though?
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/9643/jim-keller-leaves-amd



Not important. If Zen is done and doesn't need his assistance, maybe AMD can hire him back for new work in the future, if he is available. This is not the first time he left.

At the same time, we need more students in ASIC design to follow in his footsteps. He might be of more use to the industry as a teacher.

You know, I wonder if Zen might be full 128-bit, since there was 128bit FMA in bulldozer... and AVX is 256-bit stuff...


----------



## Freezer (Sep 24, 2015)

"Other" ...

Tandy  

Seriously, *TI*.


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 24, 2015)

lilhasselhoffer said:


> So, you troll and expect an equally half-assed answer.  Bravo, I fell for your plan.  Slow clap.  Neither of us is the better off.



Really dude, if you didn't learn anything from that troll it says more about you than him. 

Don't call people names.  And yeah, calling someone an idiot is calling someone a name.  You could have called his IDEA idiotic and it would've been different.  Instead you attacked the person.

Dave did well here.  For once, it was an educational troll.  Learn and move on.


----------



## Schmuckley (Sep 24, 2015)

Isn't AMD an offspring of TI?
Tandy,oy.
TRS-80
Raaka-Tu


----------



## remixedcat (Sep 24, 2015)

Freezer said:


> "Other" ...
> 
> Tandy
> 
> Seriously, *TI*.


TI doesn't do those kinda CPUs anymore they shut down OMAP.


----------



## Schmuckley (Sep 24, 2015)

So..Thread degenerated into monkeys flinging poo?'
Not the 1st time that's happened.


----------



## Atomic77 (Sep 24, 2015)

Well lets just say this. I am a almost 38 year old born into a world where computers were just starting to get popular 1977. Secondly a lot of good companies merge.  HP/Compaq for example. I may not know much when it comes to stuff like this but I do know enough to have a opinion and that's what matters.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 24, 2015)

EA doesn't have the money to make a purchase as large as AMD.  AMD has positioned itself to be a gaming platform and there's only four companies diving into the console scene: Valve, Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo.  Of the four, only Valve and Microsoft have the resources to buy AMD.


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 24, 2015)

Schmuckley said:


> So..Thread degenerated into monkeys flinging poo?'
> Not the 1st time that's happened.



I'm guilty too.  It seemed I missed a page somewhere between the trolling match and the apology.

Should've let it go rather than trying to shame lilhoff a second time.  Apologies are due here.


----------



## HumanSmoke (Sep 24, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Of the four, only Valve and Microsoft have the resources to buy AMD.


Maybe AMD can offer a stock swap + cash with Asetek, because *this looks like it could get messy*.


----------



## RCoon (Sep 24, 2015)

HumanSmoke said:


> Maybe AMD can offer a stock swap + cash with Asetek, because *this looks like it could get messy*.



Lulz. Just when AMD got a market share bump of a few percent, they get pimp-slapped. To be fair, they should have researched this before they chose to include the Coolermaster block. Sort of their own fault.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 24, 2015)

That's bull.  Asetek has no right to even patent a closed loop water cooling solution because they've been used in cars since, what, the early 1900s?  There is nothing patentable about it unless there is something specific like unique fan, radiator, hose, or connector design.

Cooler Master infringed on the patent, not AMD.  AMD can't be held liable when Cooler Master is at fault.  Cooler Master could lose AMD's business because of it though.


----------



## cadaveca (Sep 24, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> That's bull.  Asetek has no right to even patent a closed loop water cooling solution because they've been used in cars since, what, the early 1900s?  There is nothing patentable about it unless there is something specific like unique fan, radiator, hose, or connector design.
> 
> Cooler Master infringed on the patent, not AMD.  AMD can't be held liable when Cooler Master is at fault.  Cooler Master could lose AMD's business because of it though.


pump on block is what the issue was, and why EK and swiftech have their pumps in other locations.


----------



## Xzibit (Sep 24, 2015)

Fury X Cooler Master edition becomes a collectors item

AMD allows Fury X to be altered by AIB = Air Cooled or Hybrid


----------



## HumanSmoke (Sep 24, 2015)

RCoon said:


> Lulz. Just when AMD got a market share bump of a few percent, they get pimp-slapped. To be fair, they should have researched this before they chose to include the Coolermaster block. Sort of their own fault.


The weird part of the whole deal is that *Asetek were reported to be the original suppliers of the AIO for AMD*. It's going to nightmare² if it turns out that CoolerMaster hijacked the $2-4m contract from out under Asetek. I haven't seen any other mass production product using Asetek that seems to fit the bill otherwise.


----------



## Eroticus (Sep 24, 2015)

Microsoft =]


----------



## Moofachuka (Sep 25, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> That's not a bad idea.  Valve could use AMD's resources to leverage Steam OS as well as fast track VR development.



yeh but probably Facebook ends up buying it or something... cuz why not


----------



## Freezer (Sep 27, 2015)

Moofachuka said:


> yeh but probably Facebook ends up buying it or something... cuz why not



Thats a great laugh.


----------



## Atomic77 (Oct 1, 2015)

How about HP, Dell, Apple, Lenevo? all major computer makers.


----------



## Ferrum Master (Oct 1, 2015)

I think, the only one that could do it is IBM. Coz.... It has the x86 license itself... VIA is no use, despite the concern behind them is very mighty.

There for the biggest hurdle would go away. But IBM is into medical and software stuff lately, albeit they kept their powerPC division, despite selling everything hardware related. I wonder why. I am actually wondering why IBM is not present in electric car and cybernetic research too.

But just like the idea... I would be in peace to chose from intel or IBM based CPU's again... Ehh nostalgic memories...


----------



## HumanSmoke (Oct 1, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> How about HP, Dell, Apple, Lenevo? all major computer makers.


Unlikely an OEM would want AMD.
HP and Apple have spent considerable time and effort divesting themselves of their hardware manufacturing divisions (as has IBM/Lenovo for that matter). There is nothing to be gained by taking a risk on buying a company when they can simply dangle a contract in front of two or more hardware manufacturers and just wait for the competitive climate to produce the best product and the best pricing. Buying AMD just means they have to foot the R&D bill and...

...cause a conflict with their other suppliers.
HP makes most of its enterprise revenue from Intel based products
Lenovo makes most of its enterprise revenue from Intel based products
Dell makes most of its enterprise revenue from Intel based products

These companies don't choose Intel over AMD because they are fanboys of a brand, they choose the hardware based on workload requirement (often on a per-core basis for software licensed in that manner), and metrics like performance-per-watt, which tend to take on a whole new level of importance when dealing with data centers and HPC deployments.


Ferrum Master said:


> I think, the only one that could do it is IBM. Coz.... It has the x86 license itself... VIA is no use, despite the concern behind them is very mighty.
> There for the biggest hurdle would go away. But IBM is into medical and software stuff lately, albeit they kept their powerPC division, despite selling everything hardware related. I wonder why. I am actually wondering why IBM is not present in electric car and cybernetic research too.


IBM have been consolidating for some time - divesting themselves of diversions from their core business. R&D is still a big part of the company, but it seems to lead to licensing deals for third parties rather than IBM getting back into the rough and tumble of selling consumer products.
They spent a lot of time and resources divesting themselves of their consumer and manufacturing markets (sales to Lenovo, giveaways to Globalfoundries). Their core is now closer to what built the company in the first place - enterprise deployments and their servicing.


Ferrum Master said:


> But just like the idea... I would be in peace to chose from intel or IBM based CPU's again... Ehh nostalgic memories...


That only seems a possibility with the enterprise sector. IBM Power9 + NVLink vs Intel Xeon and OmniPath.


----------



## Ferrum Master (Oct 1, 2015)

Btw... Has anyone considered google as a buyer, just for the lulz?


----------



## HumanSmoke (Oct 1, 2015)

Ferrum Master said:


> Btw... Has anyone considered google as a buyer, just for the lulz?


With Google anything is possible I guess. They have been looking at ARM-based chips for their data centres for a while, and they have no qualms about pouring funds into blue sky projects....but I'm guessing they'd just sell or spinoff a lot of what AMD presently is. Google buying AMD might have some high comedy repercussions WRT Microsoft though, so there's always that going for it.


----------



## dorsetknob (Oct 1, 2015)

Ferrum Master said:


> Btw... Has anyone considered google as a buyer, just for the lulz?


page 1 post   #7


----------



## Ferrum Master (Oct 1, 2015)

HumanSmoke said:


> With Google anything is possible I guess.



Well, I can bring up more darker idea. What if anything from Russia comes up and buys it. They don't care for the patents but the tech and IPC. Yes they have only Elbrus, from Moscow SPARC institute by now... And actually it is not that bad. Their top military hardware still sits on 486 compatible parallel clusters btw... (The last thing USSR research made good to copy and even enchance).

So no matter what, we all know AMD is in bad... Really bad situation CPU wise. It just cannot compete. GPU wise everything is okay, they try to do mix of it, but due to wintel stuff, the OS architecture will not favor it soon. And if will, those CPU's will be eol as intel will bring up something comparable, as it actually tries to do, their gpu die size grows very huge also lately.

This thread is a speculation. So we know, oem is not a candidate, yes. Google is the joker.

So it leaves the new money holders. Who will need compute makers with patents. Google, yes, maybe. Virgin? Suppose not. Apple? Well unlikely they will want to make an x86 cyclone cpu. Why? Just take intel, job done and iphone xx ready. Samsung? They are building anything from a dildo to a tank... So you never know. But but but...

The ones that really might need it... Not russians... But godson.... And they have cash.

Any chinese players backed from the party? Aren't those the most real buyers?

Number one suspect huawei.


----------



## HumanSmoke (Oct 1, 2015)

Ferrum Master said:


> Number one suspect huawei.


They seem pretty embedded in the ARM ecosystem. It depend upon what their future plans are I suppose. X86 will be dead to them, and they already have ARM. GPU-wise, unless they plan on expanding into some new market where mobile-GPU tech doesn't have the power, but produces enough revenue to justify the R&D, it's hard to see why they would want it. I'm guessing a lot of the patents are resolutely bound with IP of others (ATI's acquisition of 3DLabs and Nvidia's acquisition of SGI's graphics, and 3Dfx/GigaPixel probably sealed that fate) so I'm not sure how a licensing deal could work except in specific cases. The desktop market is in decline, and judging by a shift to GPGPU not being tied to conventional rasterized 3D graphics architecture (Nvidia's GK 210 implementation is a shift way from their gaming GPU, Xeon Phi and the newer special purpose processors like the PEZY-SC that lack a conventional graphics pipeline), the pro markets are in an evolutionary state as well.


----------



## dorsetknob (Oct 1, 2015)

was stated somewhere in thread and i cannot be bothered to find the post
The US Government would Veto any Deal that allowed AMD to be Acquired by any Country/Business that was potentially hostile to American Interests
That would Rule out China Russia Arab in fact most of the devoloped/developing world leaving only US or Allied Nations


----------



## HumanSmoke (Oct 2, 2015)

dorsetknob said:


> was stated somewhere in thread and i cannot be bothered to find the post
> The US Government would Veto any Deal that allowed AMD to be Acquired by any Country/Business that was potentially hostile to American Interests
> That would Rule out China Russia Arab in fact most of the devoloped/developing world leaving only US or Allied Nations


I think I amongst others made the observation based on the DoJ's prior record.
As for if, who, where, and when, AMD's situation seems to be changing daily. A couple of days ago Silver Lake put its investment plans on hold, and today AMD announced it is cutting 500 jobs.

I think I saw an old guy sitting outside a supermarket who hurriedly changed his sign " 20p for a cup of tea rescue package for AMD"


----------



## Ferrum Master (Oct 2, 2015)

HumanSmoke said:


> They seem pretty embedded in the ARM ecosystem



Well you know they are are mainly in their network ventures(that have caused political debates due to their CEO's political past... I lol it just as Kaspersky... A  sarcastic quote from Tropico 4 - there is no such thing as former KGB agent ). But... Historicly wise... They have played with mips(and still have their division for it, job vacancies are still open) and china fave platform btw. ARM and kirin... Yes, guess they use stock cores also, just as sammy does, so without magic. I cannot call it special devotion comparing with the job as qualcomm does.

But still, we cannot deny... They have the money to take AMD without a hiccup. Yes Doorsetknob said well... US will not permit it... Well... I hope none of the candidate dorks too... My condolances US for the next president run.


----------



## Atomic77 (Oct 2, 2015)

Ok heres a idea How about Barrack Obama lol.


----------



## dorsetknob (Oct 2, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> Ok heres a idea How about Barrack Obama lol.



Your Sugesting Obama care   for AMD


----------



## FireFox (Oct 2, 2015)

AMD, what's that?


----------



## Freezer (Oct 2, 2015)

Ferrum Master said:


> I think, the only one that could do it is IBM. Coz.... It has the x86 license itself... VIA is no use, despite the concern behind them is very mighty.
> 
> There for the biggest hurdle would go away. But IBM is into medical and software stuff lately, albeit they kept their powerPC division, despite selling everything hardware related. I wonder why. I am actually wondering why IBM is not present in electric car and cybernetic research too.
> 
> But just like the idea... I would be in peace to chose from intel or IBM based CPU's again... Ehh nostalgic memories...



IBM would never touch it. 

IBM's main focus is massive back-end hardware and software. The consumer division (Desktops and Laptops)... is of no real concern to IBM.

IBM loves their AS400/RS6000 and much more that no one has ever heard of.


----------



## Atomic77 (Oct 2, 2015)

I wasn't really suggesting anything I was posting random ideas.


----------



## HumanSmoke (Oct 2, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> I wasn't really suggesting anything I was posting random ideas.


Copying AMD's board of directors strategy might lead to the same level of success


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 2, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> How about HP, Dell, Apple, Lenevo? all major computer makers.



Maybe not...  but you brought up a good question in my mind though...  what about old big blue?  I mean of course, IBM.  I think they recently got out of consumer hardware but they have the resources to make a competitive Opteron again to complement their POWER line of servers...

EDIT:  Somehow I missed the part where this was already discussed, I am on top of it today lol...


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## Atomic77 (Oct 7, 2015)

How about Bill Gates lol.


----------



## tjmagneto (Oct 7, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> How about Bill Gates lol.


That was suggested in post #2 in this thread.


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## FordGT90Concept (Oct 7, 2015)

I don't think AMD will be acquired by anyone until either just before Zen debuts (2017 most likely) or just after.  Their stocks will be highly volatile based on what investors think about AMD's profit potential post Zen.


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## Atomic77 (Oct 13, 2015)

Not that it matters but DELL is reportedly buying EMC a data storage company. I just heard that on the news.


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## Kanan (Oct 13, 2015)

AMD is going up now, with that VR thing going on with Dell and other tech they introduced like GPUs. I don't think they will go down. I'm not sure they will be as good as they were in the past, but I don't think they will go down, just yet. But really they have to give everything now - and a bit of luck won't be bad too.


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## HumanSmoke (Oct 13, 2015)

Kanan said:


> AMD is going up now, with that VR thing going on with Dell and other tech they introduced like GPUs. I don't think they will go down. I'm not sure they will be as good as they were in the past, but I don't think they will go down, just yet. But really they have to give everything now - and a bit of luck won't be bad too.


The stock seems to have settled back after the Dell announcement. Whether it goes back up short term will depend on what AMD say in two days time when the Q3 financials are announced. Long term, they are going to need more than a PC deal with Dell.


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## Kanan (Oct 13, 2015)

Well let's hope they deliver then. And no more mistakes, please.


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## FordGT90Concept (Oct 13, 2015)

I think that mostly depends on Global Foundries.  If GloFo fails to deliver, AMD is screwed.


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## Kanan (Oct 13, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> I think that mostly depends on Global Foundries.  If GloFo fails to deliver, AMD is screwed.


There's Samsung + TSMC to cover that if GloFo fails, I think. GloFo seems sure of their tech though.


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## FordGT90Concept (Oct 13, 2015)

If the time table is delayed anymore,  AMD will have to contend with Intel's 10nm process which means they're still not competitive; it would put AMD yet another step closer to the insolvency.  AMD can't afford that.  It's really GloFo or bust.  They also can't afford to bring in another company like TSMC as a backup plan.


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## alucasa (Oct 13, 2015)

TPU should buy it.

W1zzard for the CEO!


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## Frag_Maniac (Oct 13, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> How about Bill Gates lol.




LOL, yeah, add that to the list of his new found goal in life. Humanitarian relief. Compared to Nvidia, AMD are starving children with underdeveloped minds.


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## Atomic77 (Oct 13, 2015)

Donald Trump. ???


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## dorsetknob (Oct 13, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> Donald Trump. ???



you just might have suggested Donald ducks uncle  McScrooge


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## yogurt_21 (Oct 14, 2015)

dorsetknob said:


> you just might have suggested Donald ducks uncle  McScrooge



Yeah how in the world can he be both Donald Duck's uncle and Huey, Duey, and Louis's uncle when its already established that Donald is their uncle as well? Not that its related to the thread at all, just curious.


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## dorsetknob (Oct 14, 2015)

yogurt_21 said:


> Yeah how in the world can he be both Donald Duck's uncle and Huey, Duey, and Louis's uncle when its already established that Donald is their uncle as well? Not that its related to the thread at all, just curious.


Hill billy American family Values and relationships

" I am my fathers brother i'm also my aunts husband and her children are also my cousins they married my grandmothers sister and are also aunt and uncle to my  Half Sister and her brother who is my son"

you worked that out ???


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## anubis44 (Oct 14, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> AMD isn't lower quality. They simply don't offer the same type of performance for your dollar.



No, they offer more performance for your dollar. Watch this: 








The Core i5 4690K costs ~$250US, and the AMD FX-8320 costs ~$150US. For $100 less, the FX-8320 is giving you greater than 90% of the performance of the Intel chip in most games using a single graphics card. In DX12, this might even get worse for the Intel chip, since DX12 can feed a GPU using all the cores in your system, instead of only from one core (DX11 and older). If you're looking at even more multi-threaded software, the 8 integer cores of the FX-8320 kick the i5's 4 cores in the ass. And before you start haranguing me, I own both an FX-8350 system and an i5 4690K, and I've compared them side by side in many different applications.


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## alucasa (Oct 14, 2015)

anubis44 said:


> No, they offer more performance for your dollar. Watch this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Which, unfortunately, does not help with epeen. Like or not, epeen is what drives a lot of people.


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## cdawall (Oct 14, 2015)

AMD doesn't need to do anything, but push there name. They live inside the consoles right now. They need to put that fancy AMD logo either in the loading screen or on the box. People buy a name and if people see the name on a console they enjoy using they will use it in their pc regardless to performance. (ala P4 and the marketing scheme behind it). No one needs to buy AMD, AMD just needs to fire whomever runs their marketing department, push the name then improve the product to impress their newfound marketshare.

A powerful ARM setup would also do quite well. I know I am personally waiting to upgrade my tablet until nvidia or amd push something out that truly impresses me.


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## EarthDog (Oct 14, 2015)

anubis44 said:


> No, they offer more performance for your dollar. Watch this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Couple that with the more robust and expensive board required to overclock the 8320, read: any FX octo (which most do here anyway) versus what is acceptable in the INtel world, and that difference shrinks a bit.

Only time will tell to how DX12 games respond to more cores... and we will find that in a year or two when DX12 games are out in force.


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## cdawall (Oct 14, 2015)

EarthDog said:


> Couple that with the more robust and expensive board required to overclock the 8320, read: any FX octo (which most do here anyway) versus what is acceptable in the INtel world, and that difference shrinks a bit.
> 
> Only time will tell to how DX12 games respond to more cores... and we will find that in a year or two when DX12 games are out in force.



Most people don't overclock. Any 890GX/990GX and better board will easily run a stock 8320.


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## alucasa (Oct 14, 2015)

PC gaming has been held off by console standards for a decade, me thinks. DX12 will hardly matter. I upgraded my OSes only because it was free and my rigs needed reformats anyway.

Besides, I don't know if it's just me but main stream games get old when you get past a certain age. I just don't want to play the same old AAA tiles again with prettier graphic which is why I turn to cloud-funding games.


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## GhostRyder (Oct 14, 2015)

AMD really just needs to have a lot of OEM's under their belt for GPU's, APU's (Laptops mostly but desktops in the business world), and even working in the server market.  A big problem is not people like us buying them or not as that really is not a big margin of people (Even with PC gaming becoming more mainstream), its the people buying pre-built systems that really drive the market more even on the gaming and competitive market.

If they want to stay in and get back up to speed, the thing they need is to work out some deals with all the major OEM's to put their chips in their machines.  Getting dell to use their chips in business class machines (Same with IBM) would be a big step towards profitability.


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## cdawall (Oct 14, 2015)

Take the A12-8800B and unlock the FP on the GPU for CAD use. Sell it in a slim 14/15.6" laptop and profit. There would be nothing that competes, they could even charge an exorbitant amount for it.


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## yogurt_21 (Oct 14, 2015)

alucasa said:


> PC gaming has been held off by console standards for a decade, me thinks. DX12 will hardly matter. I upgraded my OSes only because it was free and my rigs needed reformats anyway.
> 
> Besides, I don't know if it's just me but main stream games get old when you get past a certain age. I just don't want to play the same old AAA tiles again with prettier graphic which is why I turn to cloud-funding games.



Yeah with AMD APU's that's a problem of the past. The consoles are fully directX 12 compliant and they will certainly benefit from any advantages it has to offer. By the time Directx 12 is old, new consoles will be out. Considering the cycle is ~ 6 years and we're 2 years into it. You can expect new ones in 4 years. Direct X 12 isn't the main platform yet but will be likely in the next year or 2. After that it will continue to be developed on for at least a few years, easily putting its climax before or during the next console series launch. By that time assuming AMD is still around, they'll put APU's in them that are also forward looking just like these versions were. Even if AMD folds, Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo might just switch to an Intel base if they're graphics improve enough. Or Nvidia might partner with Intel to provide the solution. Either way the cell based processors in consoles are a thing of the past, and this round of consoles was built with the future in mind.


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## cdawall (Oct 14, 2015)

AMD cannot fold, it leaves intel as a monopoly which would mean their company would be split and dissolved. AMD would just end up with a loan from intel, just as Microsoft did to Apple.


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## alucasa (Oct 14, 2015)

I doubt AMD will ever fold. They would have gone down already if they were to fold. I know some are making the whole situation like the end of world is coming but I honestly do doubt AMD will fold.


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## FordGT90Concept (Oct 14, 2015)

Worst case scenario, they would be reduced to just a patent-holding company.


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## cdawall (Oct 14, 2015)

I am hopeful for Zen. Nothing Jim Keller has touched performed badly, both K7 and K8 were his brain children and that is the only reason AMD exists today. Hell the HT bus was his child...if it wasn't for that I have a feeling K8 would have been a worthless upgrade in comparison to K7.


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## anubis44 (Oct 14, 2015)

HossHuge said:


> I haven't checked my tix for the lottery last night so maybe I could buy them?  Is 55 million enough?



Try $6 billion, just for the Radeon graphics division (can't be worth less than half of nVidia, after all, what else is nVidia but GPUs?), and probably at least another $3-4 billion for the CPU division, especially with a probable hit CPU coming out like Zen, but you can deduct ~$2 billion for debt outstanding, so... say $10 billion? By the way, at that value, AMD shares should be worth ~$12.83/share. ($10,000,000,000 / 779,180,000 shares outstanding = $12.83).


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## cdawall (Oct 14, 2015)

anubis44 said:


> Try $6 billion, just for the Radeon graphics division (can't be worth less than half of nVidia, after all, what else is nVidia but GPUs?), and probably at least another $3-4 billion for the CPU division, especially with a probable hit CPU coming out like Zen, but you can deduct ~$2 billion for debt outstanding, so... say $10 billion? By the way, at that value, AMD shares should be worth ~$12.83/share. ($10,000,000,000 / 779,180,000 shares outstanding = $12.83).



Current worth puts AMD around $1.03 billion.


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## dorsetknob (Oct 14, 2015)

Its Only worth what it fetches at point of sale ( FACT ) 
Until AMD is Sold ...............Speculation of AMD's Worth is just that ..........
....................*Speculation*


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## Atomic77 (Oct 14, 2015)

Intel inside is all that matters. screw AMD.


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## dorsetknob (Oct 14, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> Intel inside is all that matters. screw AMD.



10 years in the Future  an older but none the wiser @Atomic77 reads the online news

"" News Flash  Intel to Raise the Price of its New CPU by 500% (from last year when we only raised the price by 250%)
a Spooksperson Said to to our Reporter

Well what do you Expect  we are the only Maker of CPU's you Either Buy it at the New Price or we pay the Goverment to Blacklist you so you cannot Buy one

Yes its a Pity AMD went Bust in 201*  Not Our Problem  now About that Cpu You Want it or do we Blacklist you"


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## FordGT90Concept (Oct 14, 2015)

They kind of already are.  Intel is selling pretty much the same chips they sold back in 2009.  The only thing majorly different between the two is the 14nm process versus 45nm process.  What this translates to is that Intel has pocketed all of the gains from Moore's Law instead of advancing performance (at least on consumer products).  If AMD were competitive, we'd be seeing 8 core/16 thread processors for $300 instead of 4 core/8 thread processors.  Intel has already implemented a 200% price hike (at least) and few are any the wiser about it.

Edit: The Skylake picture was sourced from TPU, the original image was sourced from XT Review:






Edit: Skylake is, what, 1/3 Nehalem? If we consider how thin the package is (5 layers versus up to 12), there's cost savings everywhere that isn't abundantly obvious.  And remember, Nehalem is all CPU; Skylake is two-fifths GPU:





We're talking 400-500% easy in terms of actual CPU real estate per dollar.  Intel could nix the GPU and package a 16-core processor pretty easy if the socket would handle the power load (it would not because as noted, they cheapened that too).

We're already getting shafted.


Edit: I remember paying $320 for my i7-920 back in 2009.  That's worth $355 today and I believe I paid $365 for my i7-6700K.  Yeah, yeah, the GPU moved to die with Skylake so it's not exactly a fair comparison but, the pictures still speak for themselves.


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## cdawall (Oct 15, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> Intel inside is all that matters. screw AMD.



Unless you want a console and then AMD inside is all that exists. $1.25 billion dollars worth of APU's in the XBOX One last year alone.


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## dorsetknob (Oct 15, 2015)

CRYSTAL BALL GAZING

Intel road map for 2025   (AMD Rest in Peace )

*THE LEASE- BACK    ROAD MAP*

You no longer need to Buy a CPU 
Lease what you need
All Cpu's now come with all features you want
all we want is your credit card Details and we will bill you yearly for the CPU/GPU Features you want and need
you want more speed..........we update the microcode and your leased Cpu is faster
You want more cache..........we update the microcode and your leased Cpu  has more cache enabled
You Want more cores..........we update the microcode and your leased Cpu has more cores unlocked
You want higher spec Graphics ..........we update the microcode and your leased Cpu  gets a graphics Boost


Small Print Please read
if you fail to keep up your yearly lease payments we at Intel reserve the right to update the microcode to render your Leased cpu Deactivated
Notice your Intel Cpu must have a online Connection to work


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## alucasa (Oct 15, 2015)

Adobe is already doing almost the same thing which forced me to ditch Photoshop and Acrobat pro. Gimp isn't too bad as it turns out.

MS is doing that with Office 365 but at least their price is reasonable unlike Adobe where they want f- 50 bucks/mo.


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## dorsetknob (Oct 15, 2015)

64K said:


> We will be downloading our CPUs which means I could just pirate my CPU.



people will no doubt say that won't happen

i say it already is
for example win 10 and the micro code update that borked some intel cpu's from running an overclock



alucasa said:


> MS is doing that with Office 365 but at least their price is reasonable unlike Adobe where they want f- 50 bucks/mo.



Wait a year and your find your nice shiny win 10 (FREE UPGRADE ) O/S finaly becomes a Full subscription Software  ( after they sneekly nix your bios with an un explained update with no information so it only boots to win 10).

More Crystal Ball Readings from Mystic Fred


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## Slizzo (Oct 15, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Read the post above. U.S. Government would never allow it.



AMD is a Canadian company, so it really wouldn't matter.


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## rtwjunkie (Oct 15, 2015)

Slizzo said:


> AMD is a Canadian company, so it really wouldn't matter.


 
Headquarters is in Sunnyvale, California.  i know there are a ton of Canadian actors in Hollywood, but I'm pretty sure California is still in the U.S.


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## Slizzo (Oct 15, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Headquarters is in Sunnyvale, California.  i know there are a ton of Canadian actors in Hollywood, but I'm pretty sure California is still in the U.S.


Yeah, jesus christ I didn't look at the OP post date when replying...

And getting ATI confused with AMD...


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## dorsetknob (Oct 15, 2015)

ATI was the Graphics company...........>>>> AMD Bought
AMD is Listed on the NY stock Exchange as an AMERICAN Company


Slizzo said:


> AMD is a Canadian company, so it really wouldn't matter.


So Your WRONG and it DOES MATTER


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## Blue-Knight (Oct 15, 2015)

alucasa said:


> Gimp isn't too bad as it turns out.





Spoiler: Off topic



GIMP is not bad. It is not just equal Ado* Photo*. Especially for common users, who don't even need a fraction of what Photo* or GIMP can do. 





Spoiler: Off topic



Now, for the people who insist people should pay for every software they use for personal purposes:

VLC Media Player: $5/month
Mozilla Firefox: $5/month
Handbrake: $5/month
GIMP: $5/month
Inkscape: $5/month
Libre Office: $5/month
Text Editor: $5/month
Archiver tools: $5/month (and I am not charging for every tool, so thank me...)
Optical Media Burner: $5/month
Skype: $5/month
Oracle's VirtualBox: $5/month
Download a new version of NVIDIA/AMD driver: +$5/download
TechpowerUP Forum Membership: $5/month
+Every other site you visit: $5/month each
+Every game you have: $5/month each

Well, with the unrealistically optimistic price of $5/month and excluding software dependecies. You would need $100-$200 just to sustain that.

$200 is my whole salary.

You could learn to make your own software (and spending another tons $$$ for books), but to make all of them is necessary knowledge a single human won't surely hold and requires time you will never have. So, why we do not share every piece with know to build software that would benefit all of us. 

Paying for every software you use is unrealistic.

Paying for personalized/specialized software for an individual/entity is another story...

Just my opinion.


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## yogurt_21 (Oct 15, 2015)

dorsetknob said:


> Its Only worth what it fetches at point of sale ( FACT )
> Until AMD is Sold ...............Speculation of AMD's Worth is just that ..........
> ....................*Speculation*



So? last I checked we're a forum that's pretty much all we do, sure there's the occasional issue resolution and game discussion, but mostly we speculate.



anubis44 said:


> Try $6 billion, just for the Radeon graphics division (can't be worth less than half of nVidia, after all, what else is nVidia but GPUs?), and probably at least another $3-4 billion for the CPU division, especially with a probable hit CPU coming out like Zen, but you can deduct ~$2 billion for debt outstanding, so... say $10 billion? By the way, at that value, AMD shares should be worth ~$12.83/share. ($10,000,000,000 / 779,180,000 shares outstanding = $12.83).





cdawall said:


> Current worth puts AMD around $1.03 billion.



Yeah you can't go all AMD and just buy them because you can afford the net worth, you have to factor in the debt. This is why AMD is where it is, because they bought ATI and forgot to factor in the debt. This is why Nvidia didn't simply buy 3dfx, debt. Instead they took the things of value and left the debt to die with the company. So to buy AMD you're looking at easily 20 Billion in necessary capital over the next 5-10 years to ward off the debt and make them profitable again.  That's the real number. OR someone could pull an Nvidia, take the things of value and let the company die. Maybe a couple someones.


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## Slizzo (Oct 15, 2015)

dorsetknob said:


> ATI was the Graphics company...........>>>> AMD Bought
> AMD is Listed on the NY stock Exchange as an AMERICAN Company
> 
> So Your WRONG and it DOES MATTER



Good job reading my post above yours where I correct myself....


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## Sasqui (Oct 15, 2015)

newtekie1 said:


> Intel buys the graphics side, nVidia buys the CPU side.



I was thinking the former would be amazing.  It would spell disaster for nVidia, particularly if they ended up with the CPU side, lol.


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## alucasa (Oct 15, 2015)

AMD is a poisoned chalice.


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## Atomic77 (Oct 15, 2015)

Lets send AMD to Acer. They all ready have Gateway and Packard Bell.


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## dorsetknob (Oct 15, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> Lets send AMD to Acer. They all ready have Gateway and Packard Bell.



keep up with the News dear @Atomic77
Those 3 Brands have Massive SKU 



Spoiler: Click and i will explain what SKU is @ Atomic77 



Stock kept Units


stuck in the Supply Channels
Units are VERY SLOW TO SHIFT
They do not have either the cash assets or the Cash flow to buy or invest in AMD


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## 64K (Oct 15, 2015)

dorsetknob said:


> keep up with the News dear @Atomic77
> Those 3 Brands have Massive SKU
> 
> 
> ...



SKU stands for Stock Keeping Unit. It has nothing to do with what is backed up in the supply channel due to lack of demand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_keeping_unitel


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## Atomic77 (Oct 21, 2015)

Ok thanks for telling me what SKU is.  How am I supposed  to know much. Im just the average now 38 year old computer geek Im not really all that technical to know what everything means.


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## remixedcat (Oct 21, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> Lets send AMD to Acer. They all ready have Gateway and Packard Bell.


match made in hell


----------



## cdawall (Oct 21, 2015)

remixedcat said:


> match made in hell



Rofl I like acer and amd. They sell out at microcenter...


----------



## Frick (Oct 21, 2015)

Acer aren't as sucky as they used to be afaik.

It is amusing all the shoddy players went to Acer. I still have nightmares from Packard Bell computers of various types.


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## cadaveca (Oct 21, 2015)

Frick said:


> Acer aren't as sucky as they used to be afaik.
> 
> It is amusing all the shoddy players went to Acer. I still have nightmares from Packard Bell computers of various types.


When did HP sell PB to Acer? I worked for HP when they merged....


wow 2008. Dunno how I missed that. Why would Acer... OH nevermind.


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## cdawall (Oct 21, 2015)

Frick said:


> Acer aren't as sucky as they used to be afaik.
> 
> It is amusing all the shoddy players went to Acer. I still have nightmares from Packard Bell computers of various types.



They offer a decent product for a good price. They have a 6th gen i5, GT940 with 8GB/1TB for $549. That's my go to laptop for anyone wanting a midrange powerhouse.


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## Atomic77 (Oct 21, 2015)

I don't recall Hewlett Packard ever owning Packard Bell they are 2 different companies and  not even related.


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## cadaveca (Oct 21, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> I don't recall Hewlett Packard ever owning Packard Bell they are 2 different companies and  not even related.


Yeah, HP is Hewlitt Packard... who bought Compaq. was a long time ago, names get mixed in old memories


----------



## Atomic77 (Oct 29, 2015)

I know how about China or Japan almost everything electronics is made in china it seems.


----------



## dorsetknob (Oct 29, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> I know how about China or Japan almost everything electronics is made in china it seems.



Intel lobyist in congress shit themselves and push congress to ban such a sale under that cat-o-nine Tails   "" The Patriot Act ""


----------

