# RAID 0 - Help wanted once again



## Techtu (Apr 13, 2011)

So... I got my new drives today and have them in my PC already, however I have no real idea what I'm doing now it comes to setting up a RAID array, and I smell something fishy.... I have 4 HDD's, now I want just the 2 new one's to run in RIAD but my board configuration doesn't allow me to select just the ports I need (1 & 2 or 5 & 6 for example) it only allows me to use ports 1 upto 4 as RAID, or is this just me being a noob and totally mis-read how this should be done?


----------



## newtekie1 (Apr 13, 2011)

Usually you have to enable RAID on all the SATA ports.  Then you enter another GUI after the initial POST screen that allows you to create arrays or leave drives as single drives.


----------



## Techtu (Apr 13, 2011)

Yea... it did come up with some GUI but I was very limited to what I was able to do, I'll go have another little look though, thanks


----------



## Kindas (Apr 13, 2011)

Set Raid in bios boot hit Clr=I for Intel Raid and config the two new drives to a raid setup you want and reboot. Original drives will stay as they were. You can get the raid drivers from Intel or http://www.station-drivers.com/


----------



## Techtu (Apr 13, 2011)

Ops i started erasing the drives... 

Anyways something i should of asked earlier is do the drives need formatting first or will that be done when raid is being set up?


----------



## Millennium (Apr 13, 2011)

You don't need to format before creating a raid 0 set. Once the set is created (which may or may not involve the raid software formatting the drives), you will need to format them within the OS to use them.

Are you planning to boot of this raid 0?


----------



## Techtu (Apr 13, 2011)

Yes. That's what i had in mind


----------



## JrRacinFan (Apr 13, 2011)

Once you build the array and set as bootable. No other configuration should need to be done, other than cloning your existing OS installation to the array if you want that. Either way, it's just a matter of booting from Windows CD, going into Windows recovery, adding the raid drivers, and  formatting while in windows. Basically leaves you with 3 options. after you set it up in the raid menu. You do realize you can also do software raid(not as good). If installing a new installation you will need to add the drivers before installation.

EDIT:

I just realized I said "install" alot. LOL But yeah, if i can do it, you can to. It's pretty easy once you get it up and running.


----------



## Techtu (Apr 13, 2011)

Okay... so I majorly screwed up somewhere along the lines!!

I'm unable to boot into Windows when I set the drives to RAID in my BIOS, but work fine under IDE. Also whilst in Windows I went to disk management, and seen my 2 WD drives there so I right clicked and created a new striped volume and just ran HD Tach, now I'm curious to what results I should be getting here, for both a single drive & some set up in RAID?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Apr 13, 2011)

you have set a raid array in ide mode using the intel software by the sound of it, which is not going to be as quick that same software can be used to monitor any raid array on your system but thats not the best way to set it up just start again but this time disconnect the two other drives temporarily then boot into your bios  and set it to raid not ide or ahci. then when rebooting press cntrl h or i or whatever the sata raid rom says on boot and delete any partitions on your disks ,then create a raid array.

reboot with your os dvd in and install as the guy said above, using intels sata "F6 Raid install driver"  by installing it before selecting your destination drive , windows will format it as raid and your off


----------



## JrRacinFan (Apr 13, 2011)

Techtu said:


> Okay... so I majorly screwed up somewhere along the lines!!
> 
> I'm unable to boot into Windows when I set the drives to RAID in my BIOS, but work fine under IDE. Also whilst in Windows I went to disk management, and seen my 2 WD drives there so I right clicked and created a new striped volume and just ran HD Tach, now I'm curious to what results I should be getting here, for both a single drive & some set up in RAID?



What you did was software mode RAID. Not as good but a touch better performance wise. I don't like software RAID. You won't be able to boot to windows, you have to put the windows installation disc in and do a startup recovery and add in the raid drivers.


----------



## Techtu (Apr 13, 2011)

JrRacinFan said:


> you have to pop the disc in and do a startup recovery and add in the raid drivers.



I tried that but it just does nothing.


----------



## JrRacinFan (Apr 13, 2011)

Techtu said:


> I tried that but it just does nothing.


When you come up with choices as to which Windows Installation to "repair" did you choose "Load Drivers" in the bottom right of the dialogue box?


----------



## Techtu (Apr 13, 2011)

Yep, that's what I did then loaded the driver from the Asus website (installed on a memory stick). Then it just hangs waiting for something to load I've also waited around 10 minutes just to make sure it wasn't me being impatient.


----------



## JrRacinFan (Apr 13, 2011)

Techtu said:


> Yep, that's what I did then loaded the driver from the Usus website. Then it just hangs waiting for something to load I've also waited around 10 minutes just to make sure it wasn't me being impatient.



That is so odd, it should just plain out work. Disconnect all drives leaving just the array connected and install OS on the array. See if you can get it to boot. If not it's possible you may have the wrong driver.

I'm assuming your using the onboard SB750 for this?


----------



## Techtu (Apr 13, 2011)

Yeh it's the onboard I'm using, I'll try go installing Windows on the array and see how that goes.


----------



## Techtu (Apr 13, 2011)

Still no luck, when im given the option to install the raid driver there's a strange drive listed as X i have a feeling I've somehow created that patiotion when i accidently created the software raid... So what what's the best way to get rid of this? Format the drives independently via windows installation?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Apr 13, 2011)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> disconnect the two other drives temporarily then boot into your bios and set it to raid not ide or ahci. then when rebooting press cntrl h or i or whatever the sata raid rom says on boot and delete any partitions on your disks ,then create a raid array.
> 
> reboot with your os dvd in and install as the guy said above, using intels sata "F6 Raid install driver" by installing it before selecting your destination drive , windows will format it as raid and your off



time for this then ive had your exact issue the windows boot disk would not reconcile my mobos raid driver with the array or my mobo but as said before at boot go into menu  for your raid ROM then delete the raid array if there and all partitions on both disks then create the array as above

though since i now get what sys you got use the correct AMD F6 install driver


----------



## Techtu (Apr 13, 2011)

Windows finds the drivers just fine i some how have a mysterious drive drive listed as "boot (X)" and i can't get it to go! Im pretty sure its the root of my problem.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Apr 13, 2011)

it is and you will have to delete it (the partition that it is) as i said in the boot bios for the sata raid chip should pop up after the first bios boot screen unless yours brings a logo up?

i deff think your better off starting again from scratch m8 and the boot bios is the best way to delete the partition and or array(drive)


----------



## Techtu (Apr 13, 2011)

I've started from scratch a number of times, I've deleted the partition and re-created another one a number of times but the X drive is still there.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Apr 13, 2011)

and your deleting them in that bios menu?

and you have unplugged all usb sticks and the two extra drives not going into the raid setup


----------



## Techtu (Apr 13, 2011)

One word, yes.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Apr 13, 2011)

try unplugging one of the raid drives and then boot normally with the windows boot disk then delete its patition with that then do the other


----------



## Techtu (Apr 13, 2011)

I've tried that with just one of the drives... Will go make sure I do it with both.


----------



## Techtu (Apr 13, 2011)

Thinking of giving up. Im really not getting anywhere


----------



## erocker (Apr 13, 2011)

1. Install windows on the SSD in AHCI mode. Have the SSD the only drive hooked up.

2. Once windows is installed, shut down and switch the SSD over to one of the IDE ports. Connect your raid drives to 1-4 and set it to Raid. Setup Raid 0 in your bios.

1-4 = Raid ~ Two raid HDD's
5-6 = IDE ~ SSD (Don't worry about it being in IDE, that will change and it's already set for AHCI in Windows)

3. Boot up into windows and install the AMD AHCI Raid drivers (the raid drives should be in your device manager now). Shut down.

4. Move the SSD over to port 1-4 with the Raid drives

Enjoy.

This issue is that you can't install the Raid drivers (which also work as AHCI drivers with a single drive) until you have both Raid drives set in your array and for some reason it will not install AHCI drives while in Raid with a single drive, hence why you need to do these steps.

Any questions, just ask. It's kind of a wierd way to have to do it, but the only way I know how to get it to work properly.

If you're not running your Windows driver in AHCI mode, leave it on an IDE port.


----------



## Techtu (Apr 13, 2011)

I don't have an ssd lol


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Apr 14, 2011)

a whacky one but have you tried plugging the two raid drives into different ports as this also messes up any raid array configured on mine and splits it back up ,how big is this drive x and whats its volume label its not the system volume partition is it windows makes a sepperate 100mb hidden sort of drive it calls system volume info when it makes a raid drive and can sometimes even put it on a different disk to the one youd think (happened to me)

big up erocker if you ment me thats exactly the arseing about i had todo but also had to update bios with OCZ written bios greatly worried me and lots of retrys  but i got there

that could also be it im not sure but do AMD do a firmware update seperate for your sata chip i ask cos mine which was i ich9r with sata 7.5 got upgraded to what it says is ich10r do sata 8.5 by ocz though yours being amd is not exactly my spesh either

dont give up dude ( well get some kip ifits late) youll get there n be like yeh man


----------



## Techtu (Apr 14, 2011)

Yeh I tried different ports but with no avail, this X drive I keep talking about... well here's a photo of it 








and one of what it tell's me to why I cant install an OS...






I've also used the latest drivers from the Asus website, I think this X drive somehow occurred when I created the software RAID, but now it's just.... draining the life out of me.


----------



## erocker (Apr 14, 2011)

Techtu said:


> I don't have an ssd lol



Oops, I cut and pasted from a previous post of mine. Okay. What drive(s) do you have your O/S on? Are the Raid 0 drives going to have the O/S on it? List what is going to go on what drive(s).

**If they are new drives you just want to put in Raid, put your other two drives on port 5 and 6. Hook the raid drives up to ports 1-4 then go into the raid utility in the bios. Set it up, enter windows and install your raid drivers.


----------



## Techtu (Apr 14, 2011)

erocker said:


> List what is going to go on what drive(s).



Currently OS is installed on my 500Gb Maxtor.

I want my OS on a RAID 0 config - Using 2 WD Blue drives.


EDIT: Just seen your edit.... I should of done that to start with, but some how I missed that step and created a software RAID within Windows, which has created a drive called "Boot (X)" see photo's above, and now I'm unable to simply create a RAID through the usual way.


----------



## Athlonite (Apr 14, 2011)

so you've set the AMD sata controller to RAID in the bios and gone into the raid config at boot time to create the array then, this really needs to be done before an windows install as windows just tends to mung things completely you then install windows onto the raid0 array as you would an normal HDD


----------



## Techtu (Apr 14, 2011)

Yep, I found out the hard way that Windows just screws things up with RAID (especially when the user has no idea of how to do it the first time around lol).

There's a utility in the RAID config at BIOS something about "Full erase" basically just some kind of low level format I believe as I also accidently pressed the button to see what it actually does, and there was no escaping the fact it took an hour and half to "erase" just one disc... anyway's tomorrow I think I'll run that on both of the drives and hope that it will get rid of the stupid X drive that is driving me insane!!!


----------



## Athlonite (Apr 14, 2011)

yer atleast the good thing about win7 and vista ya dont need no stinkin floppy drive for drivers any usb stick or cd or hdd will do.... I made my first raid0 array a few years ago on two 80 gig WD HDD's it was quite a learning experience so good luck take your time and you'll get it going right


----------



## JrRacinFan (Apr 14, 2011)

Might I suggest RT7 lite. With it you can slipstream your RAID drivers into the Windows OS installation disc (throw a pm or post if you got questions about it). Sorry to hear about the long drawn out process, but at least you know how to do it again if you need to.


----------



## Athlonite (Apr 14, 2011)

JrRacinFan said:


> Might I suggest RT7 lite. With it you can slipstream your RAID drivers into the Windows OS installation disc (throw a pm or post if you got questions about it). Sorry to hear about the long drawn out process, but at least you know how to do it again if you need to.



Yeah very handy dandy proggy that I used it to remake my USB install copy added all the drivers I need to install and slip streamed SP1 at the same time


----------



## Techtu (Apr 14, 2011)

Okay so as it is... Im installing windows on the array. Low leveled the drives but "boot X" was still there and stopping me from getting any further, so no idea what made me do the thing i did next.. Which was eject the dvd and then simply push back in and what do ya know it started installing!

So now how would i go about ghosting my current OS onto the new array, which now has a fresh OS installed on...


I'm guessing that I'd just have to format the array to get rid of the Windows I just installed, and then simply ghost my current OS onto the array?


----------



## JrRacinFan (Apr 14, 2011)

Your board you are working on is it the M4A87TD EVO? Let me look at specs of the board and I will edit my post.


----------



## Techtu (Apr 14, 2011)

Yes, that's the one.

I found your post quite useful, and will probably use it at some point, but for now I'd much rather ghost my current OS as I've got so many thing's set up just the way I like  not to mention everything I have installed and most importantly my game saves


----------



## JrRacinFan (Apr 14, 2011)

Since you posted, you may need to do a clone with WD Acronis utilities (picked that since it's free for you) but I really strongly suggest a fresh install. I was looking at to see if you have a few SATA ports onboard with a seperate controller, sata 6 on a different controller. Unfortunately you don't . Would have made it ALOT easier, click and go.

Fresh install!! Just migrate everything over any files you need backed up just copy/pasta & format your old OS drive, methinks you should have done RAID 5 with 3 drives instead of 0 with 2.


----------



## Techtu (Apr 14, 2011)

So I've decided to go ahead with the fresh install over ghosting my current OS, I've just ran the Windows index thingy, and my RAID array only score's a 5.9 there... I know the index score is pretty lame at the best of times but surely this should of changed even if just a little?


----------



## erocker (Apr 14, 2011)

Techtu said:


> So I've decided to go ahead with the fresh install over ghosting my current OS, I've just ran the Windows index thingy, and my RAID array only score's a 5.9 there... I know the index score is pretty lame at the best of times but surely this should of changed even if just a little?



Who cares what Windows experience whatever says. Use a HDD benching program like ATTO or HD Tach and see what the numbers tell you.


----------



## Techtu (Apr 14, 2011)

I used HD Tach already... scored an average read of 186mb, burst speed went upto something like 565mb or something... I'll post back with some results to share, a little later on anyways once I've had enough of re-arranging of my data .


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Apr 14, 2011)

fresh brain on the issue does wonders, good on ya


----------



## Techtu (Apr 14, 2011)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> fresh brain on the issue does wonders, good on ya



True!! 

I have no idea why ejecting the DVD worked though... however I aint complaining no more 


EDIT: Here's a screen shot of HD Tach & Atto












Another edit:

Now what program can I use to monitor my HDD temp's? as HWMonitor no longer detect's them.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Apr 14, 2011)

looks good m8, im kicking myself for not asking what was on x last night id def have twigged, whacky though   

I have had similar aches in the past as ive been raid 0 in the last few years and its still not been made any user friendlier to do nice read spds though better then i got with 2

ive not yet found that piece of soft let me know if you have any luck


----------



## Maban (Apr 14, 2011)

Techtu said:


> Now what program can I use to monitor my HDD temp's? as HWMonitor no longer detect's them.



AIDA64 is the only one I know of that reads SMART info in arrays.


----------



## Athlonite (Apr 15, 2011)

Maban said:


> AIDA64 is the only one I know of that reads SMART info in arrays.



Um unfortunately it doesn't read temp from raid arrays if the chipset doesn't allow for it like on mine 2x WD2500AAJS on the Marvell 88SE6121 Serial ATA II Host Controller there's no pass through of SMART info 

generally though if you have fairly good airflow in your case you should be fine mine when getting an hard workout barely breach 35c


----------



## Techtu (Apr 15, 2011)

Ah right ok then, I'll stop searching for something what will work then aha! 

I noticed when I was in IDE mode using my other single drive as boot that the WD Blue idle temp's was around 23/24 degree's, which is about average for my HDD temps this time of the year, I may even get round to buying some temperature probe's for my case


----------



## Techtu (Apr 28, 2011)

Okay so I've had my RAID a few week's now and can say I'm impressed, even with just 2 drives in the array, anyways I've been hearing things about the stripe size? What is this and how does it effect the drives/performance? Also is there a certain setting for any type of drive out on the market?


----------



## slyfox2151 (Apr 28, 2011)

Techtu said:


> Okay so I've had my RAID a few week's now and can say I'm impressed, even with just 2 drives in the array, anyways I've been hearing things about the stripe size? What is this and how does it effect the drives/performance? Also is there a certain setting for any type of drive out on the market?



128k or higher works the fastest in a raid0, but it also costs the most space when writing small files.


the higher the stripe size(to a point), the faster the data can be read from the drives at a cost of disk space with files small then the stripe size.


----------



## Techtu (Apr 28, 2011)

To a point?

Well... I have 1Tb of space which I will never fill, I could never even fill my 500gb with all my crap installed and crap all over the deaktop and such, so should I really be changing the stripe size to the maximum it'll let me set it?


----------



## JrRacinFan (Apr 28, 2011)

Ok let's put it this way in analogy. Let's call the array a page of word processing. The lower the font(higher stripe size), the more you can fit on a page(stripe cluster). If you only need to file half the page you are wasting the rest of it. So basically you are forfeiting disk space if using alot of small files on a higher stripe size.

@slyfox 

not discrediting you, just trying to help techtu understand everything.


----------



## Athlonite (Apr 28, 2011)

I've found through my own testing of Raid0 arrays that a stripe size of 64k is a good balance of speed and space usage..

larger stripe size = greater read/write speed but greater amount of wasted space (an 4KB file on an 128K stripe will waste 124KB of space)

smaller stripe size = lesser read/write speed but not as much wasted space 


atto disk bench will give you a better idea where your array performs best


----------



## Disparia (Apr 29, 2011)

You do not lose space from files that are less than the stripe. 

Test for it: I just wrote out a script to write 4,000,000 files on my RAID-0 with two 250GB drives and a 128KB stripe. If the minimum space used for any file is the stripe size, then I shouldn't be able to write more than ~3.82million files, but it does work. This is because stripe size is simply a boundary the controller uses and not a 'unit' like a cluster.


----------



## Techtu (Apr 29, 2011)

Meh... this gives me headaches, even after hours of reading other stuff about this online I'm still as clueless from when I first started 

Seem's everyone has their own opinions and needs so no better way than to go change the stripe size for myself and see what works best for me I guess.


----------



## JrRacinFan (Apr 29, 2011)

Leave it at 128.


----------



## Techtu (Apr 29, 2011)

JrRacinFan said:


> Leave it at 128.



It's currently set at 64kb.... I'll reboot now and change the value then I'll run Atto


----------



## AsRock (Apr 29, 2011)

Jizzler said:


> You do not lose space from files that are less than the stripe.
> 
> Test for it: I just wrote out a script to write 4,000,000 files on my RAID-0 with two 250GB drives and a 128KB stripe. If the minimum space used for any file is the stripe size, then I shouldn't be able to write more than ~3.82million files, but it does work. This is because stripe size is simply a boundary the controller uses and not a 'unit' like a cluster.



Yes thats what i thought.  It more dependent on how big the average file is so if 90% of the files on the HDD are small  a lower strip size would be better for that drive and of course a higher strip size if the files are bigger.

And a higher strip size would mean less fragmentation too as there is more of the file in one spot on the drive.

When i was testing it with 6 HDD's i found the games array was best around 128 ( large compressed files ) and windows around 32 - 64.


----------



## JrRacinFan (Apr 29, 2011)

Techtu said:


> It's currently set at 64kb.... I'll reboot now and change the value then I'll run Atto



Oh well, it's ok leave it. It won't hurt anything.


----------



## Techtu (Apr 29, 2011)

AsRock said:


> i found the games array was best around 128 ( large compressed files ) and windows around 32 - 64.



Well I have my OS & games installed on the same drive 



JrRacinFan said:


> Oh well, it's ok leave it. It won't hurt anything.



It won't let me change it anyways, say's I need to use the minimum of 2 disks...  I'm sure I'm already using 2 disks, or isit a case of deleting the array and creating a new one with the new size? or would that just totally be a foolish thing to even think about doing as it might delete all the data?


----------



## JrRacinFan (Apr 29, 2011)

Techtu said:


> Well I have my OS & games installed on the same drive
> 
> 
> 
> It won't let me change it anyways, say's I need to use the minimum of 2 disks...  I'm sure I'm already using 2 disks, or isit a case of deleting the array and creating a new one with the new size? or would that just totally be a foolish thing to even think about doing as it might delete all the data?



Yup just remembered you would have to rebuild the array to change the stripe size.


----------

