# Riding the Crypto wave



## cdawall (May 31, 2017)

These pics are basically useless, but it is three of them I moved the PSU around since it is what I was using for peak consumption testing. Parts are mostly out of my closet so far I have all of $250-300 invested...Fighting with temps on the Z170 box, even with two 255CFM Delta's push/pull on the video cards garage stays too warm for the middle card. At night with the temp drop it is fine. Also finding RDP to be a bit of a pain for managing GPU's. Can't read temps most of the time, can't adjust clocks/volts such a pain.

I will post some actual running pics when I have them all together and good.

Supermicro S5 Platinum
Supermicro C7Z170-SQ
I7 6700T (stock cooler)
Corsair 2x8GB DDR4 3000
256GB PM951
2x Diamond R9 290X
1x Gigabyte R9 390
Antec TPQ-1200

This averages about $15 a day, cost $2.25 to run if my math is correct.

Supermicro S5 Platinum
Gigabyte X99m Gaming 5
i7 6850K (intel BXTS13A)
2x8GB Corsair 3200 (pulled from an unused HTPC)
128GB Samsung CM871
2x Gigabyte Windforce 3 980Ti
Antec TPQ-1000

Waiting on HSF for the CPU on this one, will be up in the next day or so. Should pull $8-10 a day and cost $1.15 to run

Supermicro S5 Platinum
Asrock X99 Extreme 4 USB3.1
i7 5820K (intel BXTS13A)
2x8GB Samsung 2133 OEM
128GB Toshiba Q300
1x EVGA FTW 980Ti
1x Diamond R9 290
Antec TPQ-1000

This one does $8-10 a day, cost $1.20 to run.




























I have some other stuff running, but it is at no cost so I wont mention it.


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## jboydgolfer (May 31, 2017)

MAN that is a $hit ton of kw's/month...still kicka$$ tho


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## fritoking (May 31, 2017)

So on the low end $31 a day.... Still don't understand crypto currency.....should have cropped the toes out....lol


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## R-T-B (May 31, 2017)

jboydgolfer said:


> MAN that is a $hit ton of kw's/month...still kicka$$ tho



I had worse once.  It was weird having a 95 degree F garage in subfreezing winter.

I don't miss it honestly.



fritoking said:


> So on the low end $31 a day.... Still don't understand crypto currency.....should have cropped the toes out....lol



To be fair, it makes nearly as much sense as the stock market.


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## fritoking (May 31, 2017)

I'm not questioning the viability.... I'm stating I have not read enough about it to understand it.


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## chaosmassive (May 31, 2017)

@cdawall  what coin are you mining?


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## R-T-B (May 31, 2017)

fritoking said:


> I'm not questioning the viability.... I'm stating I have not read enough about it to understand it.



Yeah, it's not for the faint of heart that's for sure.  Jumping in without understanding is a recipe for lost money.



chaosmassive said:


> @cdawall  what coin are you mining?



He's probably autoswitching and selling straight to bitcoin.  So the answer would be "whatever"

I am curious what pool regardless.


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## cdawall (May 31, 2017)

jboydgolfer said:


> MAN that is a $hit ton of kw's/month...still kicka$$ tho



Yea, but even if the electricity was into the $300 a month range I am still sitting at $1300 out the door.








fritoking said:


> So on the low end $31 a day.... Still don't understand crypto currency.....should have cropped the toes out....lol



I have some other stuff running for no electricity price, I will be at about $70 a day with everything running.






These are the rigs that are up at the house right now. The crazy thing to me is a 290, beats yes beats a 980Ti. Both have mild overclocks.



R-T-B said:


> I had worse once.  It was weird having a 95 degree F garage in subfreezing winter.
> 
> I don't miss it honestly.



I would have actually loved that when I lived in SD. Heat one bay and work in the other.



R-T-B said:


> To be fair, it makes nearly as much sense as the stock market.



I don't have much in as long as this lasts 3-4 months I could really care less. I am not investing in this left and right. $300 buy in right now and that will be doubled in two weeks.



chaosmassive said:


> @cdawall  what coin are you mining?



All, lol most of it ends up being etherium just due to current market.



R-T-B said:


> Yeah, it's not for the faint of heart that's for sure.  Jumping in without understanding is a recipe for lost money.



YOLO



R-T-B said:


> He's probably autoswitching and selling straight to bitcoin.  So the answer would be "whatever"
> 
> I am curious what pool regardless.



Nicehash, quick easy and I can be lazy.






This is the split right now.


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## Toothless (May 31, 2017)

The feet is what brings in the real money


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## cdawall (May 31, 2017)

Toothless said:


> The feet is what brings in the real money



Those are power toes. I can pick up children's toys with them like a boss.


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## cdawall (May 31, 2017)

Here are some more useful pictures

GB X99 box











So these draw 3.9A@12v or 46.8w, what is curious about those is they actually dropped temps on the GPU's enough to make their wattage negligible. 






Asrock X99 box


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## cdawall (Jun 2, 2017)

So have 4 rigs running 24/7 now. There has been a shift in their mining zcash is now more profitable to mine than ethereum so the nvidia cards are loving life and killing it with zecminer. If anyone remembers my trials and tribulations with RX480's and gaming you will be happy to know the GB X99 board is still a POS and I had to drop the cards down to 75% TDP for the board to stay running. While it only seems to have cut $.30 a day out of each card it frustrates me.

Supermicro S5 Platinum
Supermicro C7Z170-SQ
I7 6700T (stock copper cored cooler)
Corsair 2x8GB DDR4 3000
256GB PM951
1x Diamond R9 290X
1x Gigabyte R9 390
Antec TPQ-1200

Supermicro S5 Platinum
Gigabyte X99m Gaming 5
i7 6850K (intel BXTS13A)
2x8GB Corsair 3200 (pulled from an unused HTPC)
128GB Samsung CM871
2x Gigabyte Windforce 3 980Ti
Antec TPQ-1000

Supermicro S5 Platinum
Asrock X99 Extreme 4 USB3.1
i7 5820K (intel x79 box cooler)
2x8GB Samsung 2133 OEM
128GB Toshiba Q300
1x EVGA FTW 980Ti
1x Diamond R9 290
Antec TPQ-1000

Supermicro S5 Platinum
Asus Z170 Pro gaming
I7 6700T (stock copper cored cooler)
Gskill 2x8GB DDR4 3200
128GB M.2 Samsung PM871
1x Diamond R9 290X
1x Asus Strix 470
Seasonic 750w snowsilent


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## Toothless (Jun 2, 2017)

I wonder what Vega would pull for you.


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## yotano211 (Jun 2, 2017)

You have 4 running, I currently am at 9 running and I am about to build 2 more right now with 6 1060's each and maybe if i have time 2 more with a mix of rx470 and rx480. I post some pictures within the hour. I'll cant 4 of the rigs since I sent them to my friends house last night, my house doesnt have enough amps to run it all.

I'm lucky that my city's power cost is only .04usd cents per kWh


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## cdawall (Jun 2, 2017)

Toothless said:


> I wonder what Vega would pull for you.



It probably wont release until after this is dead.



yotano211 said:


> You have 4 running, I currently am at 9 running and I am about to build 2 more right now with 6 1060's each and maybe if i have time 2 more with a mix of rx470 and rx480. I post some pictures within the hour. I'll cant 4 of the rigs since I sent them to my friends house last night, my house doesnt have enough amps to run it all.
> 
> I'm lucky that my city's power cost is only .04usd cents per kWh



How are those 1060's doing. I am a bit disappointed in the 470 myself the old tried and true 390/290 seems to eat it for lunch still.


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## yotano211 (Jun 3, 2017)

cdawall said:


> It probably wont release until after this is dead.
> 
> 
> 
> How are those 1060's doing. I am a bit disappointed in the 470 myself the old tried and true 390/290 seems to eat it for lunch still.


The only reason I got 1060's is because the rx470s and 500's are sold out everywhere or people want insane prices for them, I'm guilty of that also. Any money I make from selling extra 400s and rx500s go toward making more mining rigs. That and I'm building 20 rigs to a person that paid for it, every 4 rigs I make for him I can build one for myself from the profits that I make. 

The issue with the rx470 is that you have to modify the bios memory timings to get better hash rate for mining ethereum. I dont know if I will mine ethereum with these 1060 3gb or zcash. I keep hearing zcash is better with Nvidia cards. I am still building the last one know, I am currently installing the OS, drivers, and mining stuff. 

I'll know in about 30 min how they mine ethereum.


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## Norton (Jun 3, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> the rx470s and 500's are sold out everywhere or people want insane prices for them, I'm guilty of that also.



You can still get 570's and 580's from Dell atm:

http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/rade...rear-blwr-4m/apd/a9679690/graphic-video-cards

http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/radeon-rx-580-oc-8gb-gddr5-5m-3x-dpt/apd/a9679689/graphic-video-cards

You pay a small premium because it's Dell but they do tend to react a little slower to the latest trends


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## cdawall (Jun 3, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> The only reason I got 1060's is because the rx470s and 500's are sold out everywhere or people want insane prices for them, I'm guilty of that also. Any money I make from selling extra 400s and rx500s go toward making more mining rigs. That and I'm building 20 rigs to a person that paid for it, every 4 rigs I make for him I can build one for myself from the profits that I make.
> 
> The issue with the rx470 is that you have to modify the bios memory timings to get better hash rate for mining ethereum. I dont know if I will mine ethereum with these 1060 3gb or zcash. I keep hearing zcash is better with Nvidia cards. I am still building the last one know, I am currently installing the OS, drivers, and mining stuff.
> 
> I'll know in about 30 min how they mine ethereum.



zcash seems to be making more on most AMD cards right now as well. Zcash jumped up in price, that being said it does favor nvidia. It is one of the few miners that the 980TI's I have beat out the 290X.



Norton said:


> You can still get 570's and 580's from Dell atm:
> 
> http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/rade...rear-blwr-4m/apd/a9679690/graphic-video-cards
> 
> ...



I can get polaris cards at an ok price, but I have to be patient.


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## yotano211 (Jun 3, 2017)

cdawall said:


> zcash seems to be making more on most AMD cards right now as well. Zcash jumped up in price, that being said it does favor nvidia. It is one of the few miners that the 980TI's I have beat out the 290X.
> 
> 
> 
> I can get polaris cards at an ok price, but I have to be patient.





cdawall said:


> zcash seems to be making more on most AMD cards right now as well. Zcash jumped up in price, that being said it does favor nvidia. It is one of the few miners that the 980TI's I have beat out the 290X.
> 
> 
> 
> I can get polaris cards at an ok price, but I have to be patient.


I have some rx570s that I bought for $192 but I have to wait until the 18th to get them. Reason why I am testing these 1060s. If they work out I might keep them, if not they go back to Amazon. I can keep them for 30 days, mine on them and return them in them. I know, its bad thing to do.


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## xkm1948 (Jun 3, 2017)

Super interested in using mu FuryX for some extra cash. Any recommendations for a newbie who have 0 experience?


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## R-T-B (Jun 3, 2017)

xkm1948 said:


> Super interested in using mu FuryX for some extra cash. Any recommendations for a newbie who have 0 experience?



Run.

(I'm kidding, kinda)


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## xkm1948 (Jun 3, 2017)

Or selling FuryX and get a 1080Ti. Jeez Fury X price on fleabay is through the roof.


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## cdawall (Jun 3, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> I have some rx570s that I bought for $192 but I have to wait until the 18th to get them. Reason why I am testing these 1060s. If they work out I might keep them, if not they go back to Amazon. I can keep them for 30 days, mine on them and return them in them. I know, its bad thing to do.



I can't imagine the 1060 will get much over $3 a day...I mean the 1070 only gets $4



xkm1948 said:


> Super interested in using mu FuryX for some extra cash. Any recommendations for a newbie who have 0 experience?



nice hash is the easiest way to get up and moving. It will end up using dagerhashimo and mining for ethereum, those cards are good for 31-32ish MH/s depending on how they are clocked. That is 4.50 to 5.50 a day.


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## yotano211 (Jun 3, 2017)

Picture time...
The 1st picture is the 1st mining machine I built and 1st computer I ever built. So this not only makes me some extra cash since I am bored most of the day just it taught me some skills. I paid too much for the open air frame. Every other picture is just a $20 double stack shelf from Home Depot. 
@Norton thz for the monitor, its being used every day. Its on the last picture.


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## cdawall (Jun 3, 2017)

I have been thinking about setting something like that up in a shed. We will see how pricing holds out and how profitability looks in a couple of months. If it is still up expect an open air frame and a shed with forced air cooling.


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## xkm1948 (Jun 3, 2017)

So get some applications going, ~5 bucks in a day minus power cost. I assume that is 24x7?


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## yotano211 (Jun 3, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I have been thinking about setting something like that up in a shed. We will see how pricing holds out and how profitability looks in a couple of months. If it is still up expect an open air frame and a shed with forced air cooling.


Get that $20 shelf from Home depot and lots of zip ties. The 1st open air frame I bought from someone off ebay cost me $105. Lesson learned....


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## silkstone (Jun 3, 2017)

cdawall said:


> These pics are basically useless, but it is three of them I moved the PSU around since it is what I was using for peak consumption testing. Parts are mostly out of my closet so far I have all of $250-300 invested...Fighting with temps on the Z170 box, even with two 255CFM Delta's push/pull on the video cards garage stays too warm for the middle card. At night with the temp drop it is fine. Also finding RDP to be a bit of a pain for managing GPU's. Can't read temps most of the time, can't adjust clocks/volts such a pain.
> 
> I will post some actual running pics when I have them all together and good.
> 
> ...



Nice setup. I wanted to do this back in 2009 with bitcoin, but things were tight and my wife thought there were 'more important' things to spend our money on. I still kick myself as back then I was earning 0.5 BTC/day with a single video card. 
I'm mining ETH with my 1060 at the moment and it gets about $100 a month, if I run it full time. I'll likely switch out what I make in ETH to Zcash and keep it for a few years. I'm not expecting to make even the tiniest fraction of what I could have in BTC as It's more of a hobby than a money making thing now.


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## cdawall (Jun 3, 2017)

xkm1948 said:


> So get some applications going, ~5 bucks in a day minus power cost. I assume that is 24x7?



Yes it should basically match my 290X...







yotano211 said:


> Get that $20 shelf from Home depot and lots of zip ties. The 1st open air frame I bought from someone off ebay cost me $105. Lesson learned....



I have been looking at DIY shelves that are a little less zip tied, but still cheap. This is purely a me wanting to do things kind of thing. 



silkstone said:


> Nice setup. I wanted to do this back in 2009 with bitcoin, but things were tight and my wife thought there were 'more important' things to spend our money on. I still kick myself as back then I was earning 0.5 BTC/day with a single video card.
> I'm mining ETH with my 1060 at the moment and it gets about $100 a month, if I run it full time. I'll likely switch out what I make in ETH to Zcash and keep it for a few years. I'm not expecting to make even the tiniest fraction of what I could have in BTC as It's more of a hobby than a money making thing now.



I did it way back in the day, but fell into the same issue as you. Man I wish I would have just left my box of cards going the whole time back then. Money was tight and we had to do other things with it. A stack of cards running 24/7 back then and I could be a millionaire now.


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## yotano211 (Jun 3, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Yes it should basically match my 290X...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


a little less zip tied frames are very expensive or you could do what I did and make a wooden frame, that cost me about 7.50 in material but a sore back. this self was only 19.99 plus tax and much easier to build.


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## yotano211 (Jun 3, 2017)

this is 6 1060 3gb mining etheruem, please understand this is all stock and I just started. I still need to overclock the memory and underclock the gpu core


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## cdawall (Jun 3, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> a little less zip tied frames are very expensive or you could do what I did and make a wooden frame, that cost me about 7.50 in material but a sore back. this self was only 19.99 plus tax and much easier to build.



That is what it would end up being. Riser cables and a wooden or aluminum strapping frame.



yotano211 said:


> this is 6 1060 3gb mining etheruem, please understand this is all stock and I just started. I still need to overclock the memory and underclock the gpu core
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That really isn't bad considering their power consumption. That is a good hair shy of the 470 by itself, good to know where they stand I was curious.

This is what my non-BIOS modded 470 does.






This is just a light clock on the memory and 125w power consumption. The second card is a 290 with a hefty memory clock and some core clock since it didn't affect power consumption when testing.


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## yotano211 (Jun 3, 2017)

This is 625 overclock on the memory, don't know if it 100%stable but I will push it harder right now.

that is very low for a rx470, 20mh/s, all of my do 22 without bios mod.


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## silkstone (Jun 3, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> this is 6 1060 3gb mining etheruem, please understand this is all stock and I just started. I still need to overclock the memory and underclock the gpu core
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So ETH mining doesn't rely on high GPU core speeds? I'm getting 21-23 MH/s on a 1060 @ 2075 Core and +520 mem


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## cdawall (Jun 3, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> This is 625 overclock on the memory, don't know if it 100%stable but I will push it harder right now.
> 
> that is very low for a rx470, 20mh/s, all of my do 22 without bios mod.
> 
> ...



Curious what are the settings you are running for it? This is a strix card which seems to like to throttle. With power pushed higher it does 22MH/s fine, but didn't seem to make up for the extra power.


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## yotano211 (Jun 3, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Curious what are the settings you are running for it? This is a strix card which seems to like to throttle. With power pushed higher it does 22MH/s fine, but didn't seem to make up for the extra power.


I leave the memory stock and underclock the gpu core to 1040. the hash rate stays the same and power draw is less much. with 6 rx470s like that it will draw about 845watts from a 1000w evga gold rate psu, rated with a kill-a-watt thing


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## yotano211 (Jun 3, 2017)

silkstone said:


> So ETH mining doesn't rely on high GPU core speeds? I'm getting 21-23 MH/s on a 1060 @ 2075 Core and +520 mem


is that with a 1060 3gb or 6gb? I am curious to try the 6gb version


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## yotano211 (Jun 3, 2017)

800 overclock on the memory, I don't think it will go higher or it might crazy, I have no experience with nvdia memory overclock on desktop only on laptops. with my 1070 on my laptop, the memory will crash at around 450mhz


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## silkstone (Jun 3, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I did it way back in the day, but fell into the same issue as you. Man I wish I would have just left my box of cards going the whole time back then. Money was tight and we had to do other things with it. A stack of cards running 24/7 back then and I could be a millionaire now.



Misery enjoys company 

I just tell myself that I would have certainly sold most of it when the price hit it's first spike at $200-300. I'm not a gambling type of person (after winning $10k and loosing it the same evening during the online casino bubble) and I know I would have wanted to take the $$$ and run at that point. I'd then have been kicking myself even harder when a couple of weeks later it hit $1K



yotano211 said:


> is that with a 1060 3gb or 6gb? I am curious to try the 6gb version



It's the 6 gb version. Ethermin.ord reports a 25 MH/s effective rate with the overclock, though I don't think it gets that high, the highest I've seen Claymore's miner report is 24 MH/s


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## yotano211 (Jun 3, 2017)

silkstone said:


> Misery enjoys company
> 
> I just tell myself that I would have certainly sold most of it when the price hit it's first spike at $200-300. I'm not a gambling type of person (after winning $10k and loosing it the same evening during the online casino bubble) and I know I would have wanted to take the $$$ and run at that point. I'd then have been kicking myself even harder when a couple of weeks later it hit $1K
> 
> ...


how high can you overclock the memory on your 6gb card, does 800mhz overclock seem like a lot or go for broke


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## yotano211 (Jun 3, 2017)

6 1060 with 800mhz overclock on the memory darws 728watts on a kill-a-watt device, 6 rx470 draws 840watts at stock speed


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## silkstone (Jun 3, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> how high can you overclock the memory on your 6gb card, does 800mhz overclock seem like a lot or go for broke



I'm conservative with my memory overclocks and just do +520 Mhz. I've had my share of Videocards where the memory has died due to overclocks. Core overclocking is forgiving, memory, not so much.


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## yotano211 (Jun 3, 2017)

silkstone said:


> I'm conservative with my memory overclocks and just do +520 Mhz. I've had my share of Videocards where the memory has died due to overclocks. Core overclocking is forgiving, memory, not so much.


I just did a 1000mhz overclock on the memory and its still stable. I think I will leave it at 700mhz, is that too high for these pascal cards.


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## Toothless (Jun 3, 2017)

So like, how does this all work? I'm tempted to let my 1080TI try a few rounds but I use my rig pretty heavily when I'm home.


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## yotano211 (Jun 3, 2017)

Toothless said:


> So like, how does this all work? I'm tempted to let my 1080TI try a few rounds but I use my rig pretty heavily when I'm home.


I wouldnt even try it on much a expensive card. I think a TI would bring in 10-$12 per day but running all day.


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## silkstone (Jun 3, 2017)

Toothless said:


> So like, how does this all work? I'm tempted to let my 1080TI try a few rounds but I use my rig pretty heavily when I'm home.



In a nutshell, you download a program and run it from a command prompt, The coins are sent to your wallet at a regular interval. It's much easier than it used to be.

Edit - Minergate even has a program that make it more like Folding/Crunching. I go through the command line though as it wasn't giving me such a high hash rate.


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## cdawall (Jun 3, 2017)

Nice hash uses the same miners that you run from command line, but adds a gui to launch everything. It is probably the easiest to run. You can get $16 a day running the correct miner with a 1080ti, but that one is an oddball and is command line only. I mine in nice hash with mine and it get $8 or so.


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## r9 (Jun 3, 2017)

I've done it with four machines 4 years ago for like three months.
1000$ extra a month sounds great.
It sound simple but trust me its real work keeping them up and running.



yotano211 said:


> Picture time...
> The 1st picture is the 1st mining machine I built and 1st computer I ever built. So this not only makes me some extra cash since I am bored most of the day just it taught me some skills. I paid too much for the open air frame. Every other picture is just a $20 double stack shelf from Home Depot.
> @Norton thz for the monitor, its being used every day. Its on the last picture.



What can I say I just love wires .

So what is the most profitable crypto currency to mine with GPU this days ?


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## cdawall (Jun 3, 2017)

r9 said:


> So what is the most profitable crypto currency to mine with GPU this days ?



Ethereum or zcash depending on the day


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## r9 (Jun 3, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Ethereum or zcash depending on the day


And how hard is it to sell it ?
What is the fee ?
What are the proffered cards AMD or NVIDIA ?


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## cdawall (Jun 3, 2017)

r9 said:


> And how hard is it to sell it ?
> What is the fee ?
> What are the proffered cards AMD or NVIDIA ?


I am lazy I just use nicehash and it dumps into my account as bitcoin. There is a fee it isn't enough to even worth mentioning. In fact last time the few days it sat in my account bitcoin went up enough to make the fee disappear lol.

AMD seems to do well at either, but nvidia favors zcash. The nice part of nicehash is it auto selects whatever makes the most money.


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## Kissamies (Jun 3, 2017)

Does the toy money even pay electricity bills what those use?


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## r9 (Jun 3, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I am lazy I just use nicehash and it dumps into my account as bitcoin. There is a fee it isn't enough to even worth mentioning. In fact last time the few days it sat in my account bitcoin went up enough to make the fee disappear lol.
> 
> AMD seems to do well at either, but nvidia favors zcash. The nice part of nicehash is it auto selects whatever makes the most money.


Any reliable websites that you can sell to paypal ?


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 3, 2017)

9700 Pro said:


> Does the toy money even pay electricity bills what those use?


Im pretty sure a person pays the bills, but if you look at the figures the right card does enough to cover it.


cdawall said:


> I am lazy I just use nicehash and it dumps into my account as bitcoin. There is a fee it isn't enough to even worth mentioning. In fact last time the few days it sat in my account bitcoin went up enough to make the fee disappear lol.
> 
> AMD seems to do well at either, but nvidia favors zcash. The nice part of nicehash is it auto selects whatever makes the most money.


Do you not see any point stockpiling zcash or etherium ?? Do you favour bitcoin to save with , im definitely having a go with my main system and this threads been helpful, thanks.


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## cdawall (Jun 3, 2017)

9700 Pro said:


> Does the toy money even pay electricity bills what those use?



$200-300 worth of electricity for the month and the 4 rigs in the garage alone make over $1200. I have a couple cards running under free electricity as well that put me right around $1800 for the month. I have one more 1070 to add into at the house which should bring my close to 2K.



r9 said:


> Any reliable websites that you can sell to paypal ?



Coinbase goes into my bank account I do not know of any off hand that you can just dump to paypal. 



theoneandonlymrk said:


> Im pretty sure a person pays the bills, but if you look at the figures the right card does enough to cover it.
> 
> Do you not see any point stockpiling zcash or etherium ?? Do you favour bitcoin to save with , im definitely having a go with my main system and this threads been helpful, thanks.



Ethereum and zcash are following the same bubbles as bitcoin, quite a few people think ethereum will be the next big thing. I don't know for zcash the anonymity of it makes it a bit of a strange one.


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## yotano211 (Jun 3, 2017)

I mine using Claymore's Dual Miner, I can mine 2 coins at once but uses up more power. 

My power bill will run around $240 this month but that is running about 9 or 10 rigs at .04 cents per kW/h. My friend in California will be running 4 rigs for me in the garage at around .13 cents per kW/h. Normally my power bill is around $42 and thats with a $20 service charge each month.


----------



## r9 (Jun 3, 2017)

I'm looking at rx580/rx480 and they are all  sold out on newegg.
I wonder if its because of this crypto fever.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 3, 2017)

These are the two sets I have running this is at .07-.08 cents a kw/h so not awful, but not good. The $40 a day set is the ones I am paying electricity on. 



yotano211 said:


> I mine using Claymore's Dual Miner, I can mine 2 coins at once but uses up more power.
> 
> My power bill will run around $240 this month but that is running about 9 or 10 rigs at .04 cents per kW/h. My friend in California will be running 4 rigs for me in the garage at around .13 cents per kW/h. Normally my power bill is around $42 and thats with a $20 service charge each month.



That whole .04 cent thing is awesome.



r9 said:


> I'm looking at rx580/rx480 and they are all  sold out on newegg.
> I wonder if its because of this crypto fever.



It is lol


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 3, 2017)

r9 said:


> I'm looking at rx580/rx480 and they are all  sold out on newegg.
> I wonder if its because of this crypto fever.


You wont find them anywhere, I will need to wait till the 18th for a large order of rx570s that I placed early this week.



cdawall said:


>



Is that chart with Nicehash?


----------



## r9 (Jun 3, 2017)

cdawall said:


> These are the two sets I have running this is at .07-.08 cents a kw/h so not awful, but not good. The $40 a day set is the ones I am paying electricity on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So it will be like the last time I did it.
Its so profitable right now that everyone going for it and the difficulty rockets and nobody makes any money .



cdawall said:


> These are the two sets I have running this is at .07-.08 cents a kw/h so not awful, but not good. The $40 a day set is the ones I am paying electricity on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


8 cents for kw/h we both know you can afford it .


----------



## silkstone (Jun 3, 2017)

r9 said:


> So it will be like the last time I did it.
> Its so profitable right now that everyone going for it and the difficulty rockets and nobody makes any money .
> 
> 
> 8 cents for kw/h we both know you can afford it .




The theory is that as the difficulty ramps up, so does the price. asic miners kinda killed that for BitCoin, but I believe asic miners can't be used for ETH or ZCash.
In the long run, I favour ZCash over ETH, the anonymity of it, I'm sure, holds a certain appeal to some segments of society.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 3, 2017)

I wanted to try ethereum but unfortunately here in Germany Electricity is too expensive.


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## r9 (Jun 3, 2017)

Right before rx580 came out rx480 were going for $160 on newegg.
I wish I've bought a half a dozen. 



cdawall said:


> These are the two sets I have running this is at .07-.08 cents a kw/h so not awful, but not good. The $40 a day set is the ones I am paying electricity on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



From what I've found VRAM speed is important how about vram size ?
Would be there a difference between RX 480 4GB and 8GB model ?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 3, 2017)

silkstone said:


> The theory is that as the difficulty ramps up, so does the price. asic miners kinda killed that for BitCoin, but I believe asic miners can't be used for ETH or ZCash.
> In the long run, I favour ZCash over ETH, the anonymity of it, I'm sure, holds a certain appeal to some segments of society.



Antminier L3+ can do ethereum at 504MH/s so quite a bit faster than anything else.



r9 said:


> From what I've found VRAM speed is important how about vram size ?
> Would be there a difference between RX 480 4GB and 8GB model ?



I haven't seen any difference between ram sizes. From watching GPUz on my 390 vs 290x the ram usage is the same



yotano211 said:


> Is that chart with Nicehash?



Yes it is part of the reason I use it they give tons of information about the systems running and rates from a central location.


----------



## r9 (Jun 3, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Antminier L3+ can do ethereum at 504MH/s so quite a bit faster than anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What are these Scrypt, SHA256, ScryptNf, X11, X13 , mining pools ?

Just started mining with Nicehash.
Pulling 27.8 Mh/s with memory oc to 2250 MHz.
MSI afterburner showing only 100W power draw.
The whole system is not going above 200w.
That is 12$ in electricity a month and its mining around 130$ a month.
120$ a month in profit not bad.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 3, 2017)

Ummmm, maybe I should buy a few 1080 Classified.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 3, 2017)

So i just started up niceminer and im struggling to get it to use two cards ,but i skipped benches initially then restarted it choosing bench then hash is it a patience thing ,do i have to bench each algorithm.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 4, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Ummmm, maybe I should buy a few 1080 Classified.


The 1060 3gb seems to be the best on ROI


----------



## FireFox (Jun 4, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> The 1060 3gb seems to be the best on ROI



And are not that expensive, just 218€, 5 of them would do the job.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 4, 2017)

r9 said:


> What are these Scrypt, SHA256, ScryptNf, X11, X13 , mining pools ?



Not a clue.



theoneandonlymrk said:


> So i just started up niceminer and im struggling to get it to use two cards ,but i skipped benches initially then restarted it choosing bench then hash is it a patience thing ,do i have to bench each algorithm.



I always let it do all of them and it seems to work well enough. 



yotano211 said:


> The 1060 3gb seems to be the best on ROI



I actually just grabbed two, I am going to toss one of my 290X's up for sale and enjoy 100w in power savings, for a better hash rate. Should balance out since the 1060's were only $148 each after tax.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 4, 2017)

Getting about 60Mh/s ,not bad ,cheers again


----------



## cdawall (Jun 4, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Getting about 60Mh/s ,not bad ,cheers again



That isn't bad that is just shy of my 290X's and they consume copious amounts more power.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 4, 2017)

I wish a had a plug wattmeter . i had already flashed a decent bios to them with a tight memory stra. 
I got them at 1350 2100 ,i don't think I can push higher but both below 50° so im pondering.


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## cdawall (Jun 4, 2017)

That makes sense I am running the stock 290X  bios with just a tdp limit set in crimson.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 4, 2017)

cdawall said:


> That makes sense I am running the stock 290X  bios with just a tdp limit set in crimson.


I am thinking of setting up two rigs similar to my rig, ie it and a sabertooth with four gpus apiece but because its got to sit in my room im going to fish tank it , should be interesting.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 4, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Getting about 60Mh/s ,not bad ,cheers again



Nice, that's pretty close to the $10 a day mark


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 4, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Getting about 60Mh/s ,not bad ,cheers again


60mh/s with 2 rx470s?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 4, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> 60mh/s with 2 rx470s?


2 rx480s


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 4, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> 2 rx480s


Did you modify the memory timings, I have some I did that only get to 26mh/s, rx480 8gb.


----------



## xkm1948 (Jun 4, 2017)

So how to you calculate the MH/s?

I am gonna give this a go for a week and see how it goes.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 4, 2017)

It pops up on the output


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 4, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Did you modify the memory timings, I have some I did that only get to 26mh/s, rx480 8gb.


Oh , yeah the memory straps been messed with a lot by another miner using refs, cant knock what's been done , they're on a 580 modded bios from overclockers forums in the polaris bios conversion bit ,id been testing them before starting to make sure they were stable and so long as i keep speed below 2100 on the memory i get no errors ,says im getting 268 Gb/s bandwidth on the memory , from what I've read Polaris is memory starved and another 30% bandwidth would net awesome results at the same gpu clocks ,seams a reasonable assessment.
I nudged my gpus upto 1400 but netted 1 ish extra Mh ,not sure they're still below 50° ill just keep an eye on them.


----------



## r9 (Jun 4, 2017)

xkm1948 said:


> So how to you calculate the MH/s?
> 
> I am gonna give this a go for a week and see how it goes.



Download the NiceHash it has a benchmark and bunch of algorithms to test so you can pick the best one.


----------



## r9 (Jun 4, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Did you modify the memory timings, I have some I did that only get to 26mh/s, rx480 8gb.



I was getting 27.8 MH/s with Memory set to 2250 MHz with default timings with the latest drivers.
The NiceHash recommends Catalyst 15.2 I might get even higher numbers with that have to test it out.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 4, 2017)

r9 said:


> I was getting 27.8 MH/s with Memory set to 2250 MHz with default timings with the latest drivers.
> The NiceHash recommends Catalyst 15.2 I might get even higher numbers with that have to test it out.


I am on latest 17.5.2 drivers not the recommended ones, hadn't noticed that caveat but if it ain't broken.


----------



## m&m's (Jun 4, 2017)

Do you guys think Bitcoins will keep it's value long enough to justify investment in new hardware? Because wouldn't it take months before the hardware pays itself?


----------



## r9 (Jun 4, 2017)

m&m's said:


> Do you guys think Bitcoins will keep it's value long enough to justify investment in new hardware? Because wouldn't it take months before the hardware pays itself?


Ain't that the million dollar question .


----------



## cdawall (Jun 4, 2017)

m&m's said:


> Do you guys think Bitcoins will keep it's value long enough to justify investment in new hardware? Because wouldn't it take months before the hardware pays itself?



I have bought sold and traded my way to hear. I technically have 0 invested after dumping some closet hardware...


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 4, 2017)

I am here because when bitcoin was in the hundreds of dollars I bought some and held it for years, it wasnt much only 60(?)coins. Well I sold it all and bought a newer car and some mining machines. The profit that I make goes back to buying more mining rigs. I dont need the money, I have no debt, live a simply cheap life and the retirement account is nice and fat. I live so simple that I drove a 2005 Prius with 350k miles and bought a newer 2010 Prius with 85k miles for cheap. 
Plus I make some money from building some rigs for this person, every 4 or so I build I made enough to make 1 6gpu mining rig.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 4, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> I am here because when bitcoin was in the hundreds of dollars I bought some and held it for years, it wasnt much only 60(?)coins. Well I sold it all and bought a newer car and some mining machines. The profit that I make goes back to buying more mining rigs. I dont need the money, I have no debt, live a simply cheap life and the retirement account is nice and fat. I live so simple that I drove a 2005 Prius with 350k miles and bought a newer 2010 Prius with 85k miles for cheap.
> Plus I make some money from building some rigs for this person, every 4 or so I build I made enough to make 1 6gpu mining rig.



I am doing it because I was bored


----------



## Countryside (Jun 4, 2017)

Riding the Out of Stock wave.

Supply and Demand is broken.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 4, 2017)

Countryside said:


> Riding the Out of Stock wave.
> 
> Supply and Demand is broken.



I just threw my 290/290x's on ebay may as well make some money on those since I can grab 1070's cheap


----------



## xkm1948 (Jun 4, 2017)

I got ~28.9MH/s for my FuryX. Good or bad? Using NiceHash Benchmark for DaggerHashimoto


----------



## cdawall (Jun 4, 2017)

xkm1948 said:


> I got ~28.9MH/s for my FuryX. Good or bad? Using NiceHash Benchmark for DaggerHashimoto



The Fury I am running sustains 31MH/s with clocks at 1090/500


----------



## notb (Jun 4, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> To be fair, it makes nearly as much sense as the stock market.


Oh come on... How can anyone educated say things like this in 2017...?



m&m's said:


> Do you guys think Bitcoins will keep it's value long enough to justify investment in new hardware? Because wouldn't it take months before the hardware pays itself?


Last time I checked (few years ago) it wasn't even easy to spend bitcoins. Is it easier today?

It won't hold value as long as it's not widely acceptable or traded on the exchange market. Until that happens, it's value is really hard to define... One day a bitcoin is worth hundreds a USD, next day you might be better of with monopoly money (they're at least physical and can be burned or something).

But there are other concerns. Honestly, I do have doubts about profitability and risk here. There are countless publications about this, but I've never really cared enough to read one. Maybe it's time. 
Think about the cost. People here only mention power draw, but it's like saying that increased fuel consumption is the only cost of becoming a part-time taxi driver.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 4, 2017)

notb said:


> Last time I checked (few years ago) it wasn't even easy to spend bitcoins. Is it easier today?
> 
> It won't hold value as long as it's not widely acceptable or traded on the exchange market. Until that happens, it's value is really hard to define... One day a bitcoin is worth hundreds a USD, next day you might be better of with monopoly money (they're at least physical and can be burned or something).
> 
> ...



You can spend them in a couple of stores across the US, in fact newegg accepts them now. They aren't perfect, but it will come with time. A few countries have declared them legal tender in their nations. 

The profitability can be good if you don't count your time.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 4, 2017)

notb said:


> Oh come on... How can anyone educated say things like this in 2017...?
> 
> 
> Last time I checked (few years ago) it wasn't even easy to spend bitcoins. Is it easier today?
> ...


Yet people are making money from it, real money. Conversion of coins is the tricky bit but its an inconvenience not a wall from what I've learned and there's just as much risk in stocks and its just as tricky to fathom imho.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 4, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Yet people are making money from it, real money. Conversion of coins is the tricky bit but its an inconvenience not a wall from what I've learned and there's just as much risk in stocks and its just as tricky to fathom imho.



It takes my three clicks from my cellphone to turn bitcoins into USD.


----------



## r9 (Jun 4, 2017)

cdawall said:


> It takes my three clicks from my cellphone to turn bitcoins into USD.


How long have you been mining ?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 4, 2017)

r9 said:


> How long have you been mining ?



I did it back in 2010, but I have been only running these rigs very recently.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 4, 2017)

notb said:


> Oh come on... How can anyone educated say things like this in 2017...?



It's 2017, dude.  You can spend them nearly as easily as cash, even easier if we're talking on the internet.  Try to feed your computer a dollar bill.

I'm hardly a crypto advocate, as I lost a lot in this market and I don't want to go back honestly.  I once had a lot invested in it and now it's all gone.  But even I'll admit your attitude is quite dated.


----------



## notb (Jun 4, 2017)

cdawall said:


> You can spend them in a couple of stores across the US, in fact newegg accepts them now. They aren't perfect, but it will come with time. A few countries have declared them legal tender in their nations.



Well, I did a tiny research before posting that comment. Newegg came high on google search, but when I opened the link, it said that "promotion has expired".
http://www.newegg.com/bitcoin
Mind you, I don't use newegg and I don't have an account. Maybe I'm missing something or I'm on a wrong continent to be eligible?

But there's a larger issue... on the list of places that (allegedly) accept bitcoin, there's hardly anything not IT-related. Some shops with PC parts, few webpages (e.g. wordpress), some SSH/VPS services...
You gave your mining figures and they're pretty impressive for a home activity. How do you spend that money? On even more PC stuff?


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 4, 2017)

The "promotion" was an actual discount and incentive to spend bitcoin.  Newegg and tons of stores still accept it.



> But there's a larger issue... on the list of places that (allegedly) accept bitcoin, there's hardly anything not IT-related. Some shops with PC parts, few webpages (e.g. wordpress), some SSH/VPS services...



So convert it to cash.  It's easy as pie now.  Doesn't change the point:  Both the stock market and crypto market can make or break you, based only on the opinions of others on somethings theoretical performance.  They are very similar in that regard.

Oh and:



> One day a bitcoin is worth hundreds a USD



Try thousands.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 4, 2017)

notb said:


> Well, I did a tiny research before posting that comment. Newegg came high on google search, but when I opened the link, it said that "promotion has expired".
> http://www.newegg.com/bitcoin
> Mind you, I don't use newegg and I don't have an account. Maybe I'm missing something or I'm on a wrong continent to be eligible?



Did you try following the instructions provided by newegg on the page you linked?









notb said:


> But there's a larger issue... on the list of places that (allegedly) accept bitcoin, there's hardly anything not IT-related. Some shops with PC parts, few webpages (e.g. wordpress), some SSH/VPS services...
> You gave your mining figures and they're pretty impressive for a home activity. How do you spend that money? On even more PC stuff?



Ok? Give it a bit longer and it will become more widely accepted. It doesn't surprise my that the money made doing tech things is most widely accepted by tech sites. 

I personally am using it to finance a new truck lol. Takes me three clicks to get it converted from BTC to USD


----------



## notb (Jun 4, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> It's 2017, dude.  You can spend them nearly as easily as cash, even easier if we're talking on the internet.  Try to feed your computer a dollar bill.


First of all: please don't call me "dude". :-(

As for online shopping, I've found www.spendbitcoins.com and the choice is rather poor, actually (but is this list reliable?).
AFAIK in most countries there are no grocery/general stores that would accept a cryptocurrency. Same for restaurants or delivery food.
Obviously, I couldn't pay my taxes or services with BTC or buy something law-regulated (e.g. a house or a car).

So maybe spending it is "as easy as cash" as long as you buy from Newegg or Steam, but not in general.
(BTW: I try to have just a couple of bills at home - worth around $30 in total, so no problem in feeding those to the PC . In Europe we're not very attached to cash compared to Americans.)

What I want to say: you can't use bitcoins instead of money at this point (even if you only pay electronically). They're very limited. And if I was making a lot of them (like cdawall does) I'd find myself in a weird situation - I couldn't spend money optimally. You know... I'd have an awesome PC, but I couldn't afford the food I want. ;-)
So as you said, I should convert... However...
*
As you've tried to convince me that BTC is practically just like normal currency, below I'll try to give some arguments why it's not (it really isn't!). :-D*



R-T-B said:


> So convert it to cash.  It's easy as pie now.



While the cryptocurrency idea is pretty well designed, it still lacks on the edge of the "traditional" world - legal systems haven't caught up yet.
1) Converting is IMO the weakest point, as it is not protected by law. At some point in this operation you'll loose control over your BTC. Hence we have these situations when wallets/BTC stocks disappear / get hacked and people are left with nothing. So while most of us value highly the anonymity of a cryptocurrency, we should not forget about the risks that are also very fundamental in this idea.
2) Keep in mind stealing BTC is not a crime, so it can't be prosecuted. Moreover, you can't insure your computer to the value of BTC that could be lost if it's stolen/broken.
3) Purchasing something with a bitcoin is not a transaction, so you're not entitled to anything that law of your country would provide - e.g. a return policy. It's up the to store's good will. I checked Newegg and it accepts returns bought with BTC, but will only give you a gift card (not BTC nor normal money).
4) It's hardly possible for companies to use BTC (because they couldn't include them in the balance sheet).



R-T-B said:


> Doesn't change the point:  Both the stock market and crypto market can make or break you, based only on the opinions of others on somethings theoretical performance.  They are very similar in that regard.


You can't call things similar just because they're presented on similar graphs.  Bitcoin and stock markets have little in common.
Behind a stock there's always something real - even if the quote is unrealistic. There's always someone held responsible not only for the underlying asset (e.g. the company that offered it), but also for the instrument itself (the stock market it's listed on, government agencies that control it etc).


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 4, 2017)

> While the cryptocurrency idea is pretty well designed, it still lacks on the edge of the "traditional" world - legal systems haven't caught up yet.
> 1) Converting is IMO the weakest point, as it is not protected by law. At some point in this operation you'll loose control over your BTC. Hence we have these situations when wallets/BTC stocks disappear / get hacked and people are left with nothing. So while most of us value highly the anonymity of a cryptocurrency, we should not forget about the risks that are also very fundamental in this idea.
> 2) Keep in mind stealing BTC is not a crime, so it can't be prosecuted. Moreover, you can't insure your computer to the value of BTC that could be lost if it's stolen/broken.
> 3) Purchasing something with a bitcoin is not a transaction, so you're not entitled to anything that law of your country would provide - e.g. a return policy. It's up the to store's good will. I checked Newegg and it accepts returns bought with BTC, but will only give you a gift card (not BTC nor normal money).
> 4) It's hardly possible for companies to use BTC (because they couldn't include them in the balance sheet).



There is so much misinformation here I don't even know where to begin.  Stealing BTC is a crime, that's complete and utter BS.  You can insure BTC (I even did it at one point).  Purchasing something with bitcoin is a transaction at least in the USA, it's even taxable.  And 4.) is simply dealt with by autoconverters.  Steam accepts BTC for gosh sake.

Most of my "easy as cash" statement is based on the idea you set up a coinbase and exchange it...  to cash.  Yes, coinbase reports to the IRS, and you will pay taxes, like real money.  Bitcoin is not best spent directly.  It is best as a currency transport, like paypal.



> Behind a stock there's always something real - even if the quote is unrealistic.



What do you think powers bitcoin?  Fairy dust?  There's a HUGE INDUSTRY behind it.


----------



## notb (Jun 5, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Stealing BTC is a crime, that's complete and utter BS.


Can you give me a link to the legal act that covers this? You know: something saying that one can own a bitcoin and he's protected.
Of course all countries work on a legal solution for digital currencies, but the ones I know about struggle to even define the ownership.

Basically, I went through some pages after previous post and it seems that, as you've said, there is some legislation in North America that covers bitcoins - mostly for the purpose of taxation.
Mind you, what I've seen suggests that in Canada it's treated as intangible asset (software), not as money.
Another option, that some countries test now, is treating it as copyright...

Still, as imperfect as it is, US law on BTC is way more precise than the average on the planet.
However, while US wants to tax your BTC, it doesn't want to protect it. Digital currency deposits are not covered by FDIC (money deposits in US are covered up to $250k).



R-T-B said:


> You can insure BTC (I even did it at one point).


What exactly did you insure? Because insurance covers a risk (a possible event). So did the insurance cover someone getting access to your passwords? Or you losing that access? Or what?



R-T-B said:


> And 4.) is simply dealt with by autoconverters.  Steam accepts BTC for gosh sake.


Steam can accept tomatoes as long as they can price them (in USD, not BTC) and defend that.
As I said earlier: generally BTC is not a currency, it's not money. At best it's like a prepaid mobile plan. Your phone says you have $10, but it's not money - you've already spent that. You're left with just a right to get phone calls worth that much.

At this point I really got interested in this. I'll have to check some sources. Honestly, if my company started accepting bitcoin, I'd have no clue what to do with it. :-D



R-T-B said:


> It is best as a currency transport, like paypal.


The issue here is that your paypal account's value is constant in your currency. You deposit and extract the same amount of USD.
Bitcoin's value changes. Technically it's a lot like trading on FOREX, but it's not a currency.




R-T-B said:


> What do you think powers bitcoin?  Fairy dust?  There's a HUGE INDUSTRY behind it.


Nope. There's a huge industry behind using it, behind operations. There is no industry behind it's value. Owning a BTC, you don't have any rights.

It would be different if Bitcoin hadn't been created as something purely virtual. Someone could gather billions of USD and make it a base for the BTC. People would mine and spend it just like they do now, but it would have a fixed exchange rate to USD, resulting in a well-defined value - basically similar to a gold standard that currencies had a while ago.

BTC is just an agreement without any fundaments.
Here's an analogy.
You and your friend often go to a pub - each time one of you pays the bill to make things simpler. Because you drink a lot and it's hard to keep track of the balance, you create a currency called "Abeer" worth 1 beer. You can even make a shared online spreadsheet to keep track of the balance - now you can easily check how many free beers you can get next time. Basically, you've created a virtual currency.
To you and your friend Abeers are worth a lot - they're based on your friendship and trust. To everyone else it's worth totally nothing.
Since there are no underlying assets, if your friend dies or catches you kissing his wife, your Abeers instantly lose all their value. 

Normal currencies and stocks always have an underlying asset - the company or the country usually owns something. Even if it goes bankrupt, there's usually something to salvage (or you can start suing the owner/management/government if they lied to you in financial statements).


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 5, 2017)

So your not into it then, this isn't a debate the merits of thread ,if you're not into it get out of it.
Start a debate the merits of thread if you want.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 5, 2017)

All I know is it is free money to me that goes into my bank account in USD. LOL


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 5, 2017)

@notb:  I'm not going to continue this, but the answers you want re: legal can be readily found on google.

I'd suggest looking into the Mt. Gox case.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 5, 2017)

cdawall said:


> It takes my three clicks from my cellphone to turn bitcoins into USD.


It takes me maybe 12-15 clicks and 20 min to convert ether to USD. The wait is for the wallet to coinbase transfer time. It take coinbase 1-2 days to show up at my business bank account.


----------



## m&m's (Jun 5, 2017)

How safe is it to give your bank account info to coinbase?
Buying games with BTC on Steam is one thing but giving personal info to a website so it can convert the money is something I don't feel safe about.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 5, 2017)

m&m's said:


> How safe is it to give your bank account info to coinbase?
> Buying games with BTC on Steam is one thing but giving personal info to a website so it can convert the money is something I don't feel safe about.



Coinbase is as legit as paypal.  Perfectly safe.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 5, 2017)

It is a US based company that falls under all US laws and reports to the IRS. They are pretty unlikely to steal from you. The words "class action lawsuit" come to mind.


----------



## notb (Jun 5, 2017)

cdawall said:


> All I know is it is free money to me that goes into my bank account in USD. LOL


OK, but you build rigs for mining, so you should at least be a bit interested in the existing risk. Even if you used mostly parts lying around, you have some alternative costs (you could have sold them, you could have invested that money).
If one's buying new gear for mining, I suppose it'll need a few months to start earning money. What if bitcoin value suddenly drops in the meantime? 

BTW: how do gaming cards react to mining (24/7 heavy load)?
Even assuming someone is gaming a lot (e.g. averaging 5 hours a day for 2 years of warranty), it's just 150 days of non-stop work.

OK. I'm an analyst. Straight away I'm more interested in risk and profitability of mining than connecting cables.
But IMO even someone purely technical should spend a moment and think about expectations and problems... 



theoneandonlymrk said:


> So your not into it then, this isn't a debate the merits of thread ,if you're not into it get out of it.
> Start a debate the merits of thread if you want.


Merits? I'm talking about profitability. Is this weird in a mining thread?
I assume cdawall is doing this primarly for the money, not to heat his house or listen to high-rpm fans.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 5, 2017)

Frankly @notb you finally hit the nail on the head.

I lost a lot of money in bitcoin due to selling when I shouldn't have (basically, as soon as I mined it).  You rarely break even that way.  Difficulty in the bitcoin algorithm nearly assures it.  Your hardware will die, or become worthless and unprofitable, and you won't even have paid for it yet.


What I realized at the end (though there is no way I would get back into this), is you should mine and wait.  Years maybe.  Wait for that epic high spike.  The world being fed up with banks like it is has them buying like nuts every few years with bitcoin.  Those highs dissapate just as fast.  If you don't have a pile of coins when they come, you will never break even, let alone get rich.

Just advice from a past miner, still paying off his former habits credit card debt.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 5, 2017)

notb said:


> OK, but you build rigs for mining, so you should at least be a bit interested in the existing risk. Even if you used mostly parts lying around, you have some alternative costs (you could have sold them, you could have invested that money).
> If one's buying new gear for mining, I suppose it'll need a few months to start earning money. What if bitcoin value suddenly drops in the meantime?
> 
> BTW: how do gaming cards react to mining (24/7 heavy load)?
> ...



See that's the thing these parts have sat in my storage unit (sans a couple cases and boards) since I moved down 2 years ago. They weren't going to be sold or used just cost me money for existing. 

I sold a couple cpus I had collected and have nothing into this payout tomorrow covers and exceeds what else is in. 

BTC his $2615 today already so all of my payouts have increased yet again. I am loosely watching the market so I know when to sell, but shy of the market literally taking overnight I am going to make $1500+ month after electricity cost is removed. That is based on $2200 a BTC so that number is higher now. 

The 290's are old used cards and seem to be handling everything fine we will see how long they live. Temps due to the 255cfm fans blowing across aren't even breaking 80C now. I imagine they will be fine, everything I have has good vrm cooling.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 5, 2017)

notb said:


> OK, but you build rigs for mining, so you should at least be a bit interested in the existing risk. Even if you used mostly parts lying around, you have some alternative costs (you could have sold them, you could have invested that money).
> If one's buying new gear for mining, I suppose it'll need a few months to start earning money. What if bitcoin value suddenly drops in the meantime?
> 
> BTW: how do gaming cards react to mining (24/7 heavy load)?
> ...


No your not your arguing against the whole premise based on profits, if it aint for you then waste your time elsewhere you aint changing my mind ,cdawall's appears set as do anyone thats tried it.
Give it a go then the pap your spouting might realign with reality


----------



## r9 (Jun 5, 2017)

notb said:


> OK, but you build rigs for mining, so you should at least be a bit interested in the existing risk. Even if you used mostly parts lying around, you have some alternative costs (you could have sold them, you could have invested that money).
> If one's buying new gear for mining, I suppose it'll need a few months to start earning money. What if bitcoin value suddenly drops in the meantime?
> 
> BTW: how do gaming cards react to mining (24/7 heavy load)?
> ...


You get roughly 100% return of your investment in two months, and we are discussing risks.
Are you serious ?
And even if you don't make anything you can still sell that equipment, its not a asic miners it just pc parts.


----------



## Sasqui (Jun 5, 2017)

cdawall said:


> BTC his $2615 today already so all of my payouts have increased yet again. I am loosely watching the market so I know when to sell, but shy of the market literally taking overnight I am going to make $1500+ month after electricity cost is removed. That is based on $2200 a BTC so that number is higher now.
> 
> The 290's are old used cards and seem to be handling everything fine we will see how long they live. Temps due to the 255cfm fans blowing across aren't even breaking 80C now. I imagine they will be fine, everything I have has good vrm cooling.



I would love to get into this myself and surprised based on your ROI more people aren't doing it now (vs. 4-5 years ago when it came and went)  I own two 290x's once used for mining that are still kicking, quite reliably.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 5, 2017)

r9 said:


> You get roughly 100% return of your investment in two months, and we are discussing risks.
> Are you serious ?
> And even if you don't make anything you can still sell that equipment, its not a asic miners it just pc parts.



I have no real risk other than time into this...LOL



Sasqui said:


> I would love to get into this myself and surprised based on your ROI more people aren't doing it now (vs. 4-5 years ago when it came and went)  I own two 290x's once used for mining that are still kicking, quite reliably.



Again my ROI is not standard I could see some hold back from people who are pledging 4+ months on this with cards, but the 1060 3GB cards go cheap and have a 40 something day ROI


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 5, 2017)

r9 said:


> You get roughly 100% return of your investment in two months, and we are discussing risks.



Wow, it's really that profitable at the moment?

I'd expect difficulty to take it out in no time.  I guess Ethereum/other coins are different than direct mining bitcoin or litecoin like I was.

I'm tempted, but I can't now for various reasons.  Plus I actually have a job now.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 5, 2017)

ROI with the 1060 3gb is around 38-low 40 days now. If you pick them up say at Frys or Microcenter when they have a killer deal, like they did this week for $149, 162 with tax and your RIO is even lower. I just picked up 24 yesterday from Dallas. I will be building some more rigs with lower power draw today and tomorrow.

I put some of these ex470s on ebay and they sold within a few hours for 270 each, insane!!.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 5, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Wow, it's really that profitable at the moment?
> 
> I'd expect difficulty to take it out in no time.  I guess Ethereum/other coins are different than direct mining bitcoin or litecoin like I was.
> 
> I'm tempted, but I can't now for various reasons.  Plus I actually have a job now.



A couple of the currencies have shot up making it more profitable right now zcash is going crazy.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 5, 2017)

I would do it if

a.) My dad didn't have prostate cancer (this is slowing my life down signifigantly right now).
b.) we had room in the garage.
c.) I had time.

Sadly, I barely can manage my TPU job right now frankly, so there's no way I'm adding this.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 6, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> I would do it if
> 
> a.) My dad didn't have prostate cancer (this is slowing my life down signifigantly right now).
> b.) we had room in the garage.
> ...



I don't think that anyone in this thread is trying to convince anyone else that they must do it.
I'd go ahead and buy myself a couple more cards and give it a real go, if I weren't leaving the country for a month vacation soon.

As it stands, I'll see what the profitability is when I get back and consider spending a little on it, depending on what I can afford. More for my piece of mind than anything else. I couldn't afford to put the money into it when BTC was $2 and completely ignored all crypto after it his the first $1000 milestone. It's one of those small regrets I have as I was convinced that BTC would work, yet did nothing past mine a few coins on a 4850 and lose them early. Now I can afford to, I think why not? The GPU in my HTPC could do with an upgrade, even if I don't really game on it, and I can always resell the cards in the future.


----------



## infrared (Jun 6, 2017)

cdawall said:


> A couple of the currencies have shot up making it more profitable right now zcash is going crazy.


Sweet! I've got a 1080Ti arriving in the morning, maybe I can mine some money back


----------



## cdawall (Jun 6, 2017)

infrared said:


> Sweet! I've got a 1080Ti arriving in the morning, maybe I can mine some money back



Lol they do like $7-8 a day


----------



## moproblems99 (Jun 6, 2017)

Argh...reading through this thread made me remember how I was going to mine bitcoin when they were $10...but money was tight and the wife said we had better things to do with it...

So this has me wondering again...would an Athlon II X4 620 and a 990X be a good enough base to support 3 1060s?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 6, 2017)

I mean that is about as fast as a celeron which is what everyone is using


----------



## moproblems99 (Jun 6, 2017)

I was pretty sure that the CPU was relatively irrelevant within reason.  I just happened to be looking at yours and seeing lots of X99 and thinking to myself 'well requirements went up'...lol


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 6, 2017)

I either use g3900 or g3930 which ever one is cheaper. Sometimes the g3920 will sell for around $35-36, mostly they are around 41 mark.

Does anyone know if nicehash has a zcash miner


----------



## cdawall (Jun 6, 2017)

moproblems99 said:


> I was pretty sure that the CPU was relatively irrelevant within reason.  I just happened to be looking at yours and seeing lots of X99 and thinking to myself 'well requirements went up'...lol



The best chip is a chip you have laying around. 



yotano211 said:


> Does anyone know if nicehash has a zcash miner



Yes. Equihash is that's all my 980tis mine now.


----------



## notb (Jun 6, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> What I realized at the end (though there is no way I would get back into this), is you should mine and wait.  Years maybe.  Wait for that epic high spike.


OK, so I haven't really analyzed virtual currencies, but I'll most likely get into it.
You could be right about the theory. The mechanism is that a limited supply (and dropping mining rates) will increase the value. But after the spike you'll have a drop. Why? Possibly because people move to mining another currency. This is one of the issues. We have limited supply of each currency, but practically unlimited supply of currencies.
So I'd imagine that if we added all of them (by capitalization, not quote), the whole "virtual currency world" would behave a lot more stable. At least that's one of hypotheses worth checking. 



R-T-B said:


> Wow, it's really that profitable at the moment?


Yes. You might want to check nicehash - they have a profitability calculator which shows time to cover the initial cost (but it's based on current quotes). Not many parts are listed, but it's still pretty educative.



R-T-B said:


> I'm tempted, but I can't now for various reasons.  Plus I actually have a job now.


Yeah. Supporting this is actually a challenge time-wise, but there are other issues. E.g. I live in a flat (~45m^2), so it's not that easy to find a place for a a mining rig. And it's almost summer, so I'd not be willing to run this on my PC (e.g. at night).
Mind you, I wonder how many people run mining at home with air conditioning on (as it's pretty popular in US). That should be doubling the electricity cost if not better. 


cdawall said:


> I have no real risk other than time into this...LOL


Well... there's the "currency risk" (or whatever it should be called in case of BTC). And of course at some point a part will die and it'll need replacing, so it'll cost you money, not time for searching the basement. 
If you'd want to be a full-time currency miner, you would most like need a business plan at some point (e.g. to get a credit). It would have to show a sensible future cashflow - also considering risks and future costs.
But (if I understand correctly) as long as this is just an additional activity (basically a hobby with some profit), I guess the _capre diem_ approach works. ;-)


cdawall said:


> Again my ROI is not standard I could see some hold back from people who are pledging 4+ months on this with cards, but the 1060 3GB cards go cheap and have a 40 something day ROI


I'm getting a 1060 3GB soon and might give it a go (just for fun). But as mentioned above, I'll most likely wait for the winter. It's up to 25*C now and will raise to 30*C in July. I don't need a heater at this point.


r9 said:


> You get roughly 100% return of your investment in two months, and we are discussing risks.
> Are you serious ?


IF we chose to forget about risk, I can get 100% return of investment in minutes on FOREX, so mining BTC doesn't look so great. 


r9 said:


> And even if you don't make anything you can still sell that equipment, its not a asic miners it just pc parts.


This is an important point to make - "consumer" PC parts can be used for other things or sold.
Even if I don't get into mining, I'm sure there's at least one thing I've realized thanks to this discussion. I will never buy a used high-end GPU...


----------



## cdawall (Jun 6, 2017)

Well BTC is up over $2800 again. Pretty rough on the risk, just had over $300 dumped into my accounts from this lol.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 6, 2017)

notb said:


> This is an important point to make - "consumer" PC parts can be used for other things or sold.
> Even if I don't get into mining, I'm sure there's at least one thing I've realized thanks to this discussion. I will never buy a used high-end GPU...



Yes. There will be lots of heavily 'used' 580's on the market once ETH/ZEC becomes unprofitable!


----------



## LFaWolf (Jun 6, 2017)

The upside is that, I want AMD to still compete with nVidia but their midrange cards are not for me to buy. Hopefully AMD will sell bunch of midrange cards to not just survive but better compete down the road.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 6, 2017)

silkstone said:


> Yes. There will be lots of heavily 'used' 580's on the market once ETH/ZEC becomes unprofitable!



What's funny is there are so few on the market people have realized that the 1060 does just as well in Ethereum mining and the cheap ones of those are gone too.


----------



## V3ctor (Jun 6, 2017)

Hi!

I installed NiceHash, and I'm getting this on my 980M, is it worth it? :/

http://imgur.com/a/0IXnO

Does NiceHash work with Ethereum?

What is the best card of the moment? an RX480 or a GTX1060?

Thanks for the help!


----------



## cdawall (Jun 6, 2017)

V3ctor said:


> Hi!
> 
> I installed NiceHash, and I'm getting this on my 980M, is it worth it? :/
> 
> ...



That is about right for a 980M and it is mining zcash. That module is currently the best for cuda cores from what I have played with, the daggerhashmito one is ethereum. As far as best? Best in what regards is the question if you can get one of the 1060 3GB cards in the $150 range they are the best ROI cards, however the 1080Ti mines 2-3 times more.


----------



## notb (Jun 6, 2017)

cdawall said:


> What's funny is there are so few on the market people have realized that the 1060 does just as well in Ethereum mining and the cheap ones of those are gone too.


I think you could be correct about 1060 3GB. I checked and the better models are out of stock in many large stores. Also the price is higher than it used to be 2 months ago.

1060 6GB are easy to get, but I think also here the price went up (possibly just pushed up by the 3GB version).
At the same time USD/PLN went down 10% in couple of months, so basically everything else (especially RAM, CPU, disks, but also 1050Ti) got cheaper.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 8, 2017)

So guys, i am thinking about this mining thing and maybe i would give a try but first i would like to hear from those who are already mining, is it worth to invest around 1000€ for hardware?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 8, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> So guys, i am thinking about this mining thing and maybe i would give a try but first i would like to hear from those who are already mining, is it worth to invest around 1000€ for hardware?



Are you looking for a quick ROI?


----------



## Sasqui (Jun 8, 2017)

This has turned into a @cdawall crypto mining helpdesk, lol.  Hats off to him 

My thoughts/prediction?  Within 6 months there is going to be a flood of used high end video cards on the cheap!  That's how I originally got my two 290x's a few years back


----------



## silkstone (Jun 8, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> So guys, i am thinking about this mining thing and maybe i would give a try but first i would like to hear from those who are already mining, is it worth to invest around 1000€ for hardware?



The worst I can see happening is you have to sell it after a couple of months and break even with the income from mining.

If I had the spare cash, I'd put more money into it.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 8, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Are you looking for a quick ROI?



Sorry for my ignorance, ROI =?


----------



## silkstone (Jun 8, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Sorry for my ignorance, ROI =?



Return on investment/rate of income

If you want a high ROI, get 5 1060 3gb cards and hook them up to your current rig via usb 3


----------



## FireFox (Jun 8, 2017)

silkstone said:


> hook them up to your current rig via usb 3



Shouldn't i build an extra machine for mining?


----------



## silkstone (Jun 8, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Shouldn't i build an extra machine for mining?



You could, but your rig would support a bunch of GPUs. It would mean that you couldn't game on it whilst mining AFAIK.

If you build a new rig, u just need a cheap cpu + mobo a big psu and as many cards as you can afford.

You'd have to just look at the amount of time u spend gaming each day. If it's ~3hrs per day or less (on average) then you'd likely be better off using your current one and getting an additional GPU.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 8, 2017)

A lot of this comes down to your choice I just paid electricity and took the rest of my first two weeks mining income to buy another 1080ti. So my main rig mines as well as the ones in the garage. 

I actually just sold my 470/2 290x/290 to play musical cards and go to all 1060 3gb or possibly 1070 depending on what I get a deal on next. 

Best bang for the buck is the 1060 3gb however rumor has it Ethereum will be bumping difficulty and require 4gb minimum soon. Not a huge deal since you can mine zcash at the same basic amount per day. 

If you build a rig the best way to go is adapters to allow 5-6 1060's, pentium and a z170/270 board.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 8, 2017)

Good point .

One more question, the cards have to be all the same or can they be mixed?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 8, 2017)

Mixed is fine. One of my best miners is a 980ti, 1060 and 1070 in one box. Uo until last night it had a 290 as well.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 8, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Mixed is fine. One of my best miners is a 980ti, 1060 and 1070 in one box. Uo until last night it had a 290 as well.



So, as I can see my motherboard support 4 cards, i will add 3 1060 plus my 1800


----------



## cdawall (Jun 8, 2017)

Yes and you can mine on the 1060's while gaming on the 1080.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 8, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Yes and you can mine on the 1060's while gaming on the 1080.


That said all what i have to do is just install the cards?


----------



## Troy210 (Jun 8, 2017)

This is an awesome thread. I myself just got ahold of three 290x's and got a pc bundle from gpushack.com

My main rig has a 980Ti that I'm thinking of putting to use.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 8, 2017)

Is there a guide how to configure/set /install  ethereum?


----------



## silkstone (Jun 8, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Is there a guide how to configure/set /install  ethereum?



I used the instructions here: https://ethermine.org/

But, I'm only on 1 card, so you'll have to look at the readme to see how you can set aside your gaming card.

You'll also need a wallet - I use Jaxx, but it isn't recommended for mining. 
It should be fine, if you set the payout to daily, but I'm sure cdawall will have some better ideas


----------



## cdawall (Jun 8, 2017)

I am lazy I use nice hash. They have a small conversion/transfer charge and pay out in bitcoin. It has a gui to select which gpus I want to run and it uses the same miners as everyone else just launched from a gui. It also autoselects based on current rates what the most profitable currency is, it more or less works (I have had issues with pascal/x11ghost, but you can lock those out).

There are also several apps linked to it so I can check my miners from my phone. That feature and the web breakdown I am willing to pay for so the tiny fee is well worth it to me.


----------



## dorsetknob (Jun 8, 2017)

Sasqui said:


> My thoughts/prediction? Within 6 months there is going to be a flood of used high end video cards on the cheap! That's how I originally got my two 290x's a few years back


Second that And raise you with

"Just Bought a S/H Card Model no********* and am having problems with it!!
Guy said it was Sold because he upgraded  his Gaming Machine 
I Asked him if it had been used to mine and he swore it never had and it would be Sorted with a Bios Flash"


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jun 8, 2017)

Urk. Not good. 3rd party cards come with better cooling (at least mine does) to handle Etherium mining lol


----------



## FireFox (Jun 8, 2017)

No luck, i dont know what is happening, any ideas guys?


----------



## dorsetknob (Jun 8, 2017)

connection Problems
just a quick Observation
Have you opened correct ports and protocals in your Firewall ??


----------



## FireFox (Jun 8, 2017)

dorsetknob said:


> Have you opened correct ports and protocals in your Firewall ??



I use a hardware firewall and i haven't opened any port


----------



## dorsetknob (Jun 8, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> I use a hardware firewall and i haven't opened any port



Then explain to me 
"How Does your Client Software/Program Communicate to download work or upload results/work" 
if it cannot get past/through your firewall ????


----------



## notb (Jun 8, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Is there a guide how to configure/set /install  ethereum?


After a check I'd also vote for nicehash. It's very easy, benchmarks your gear, optimizes gain by choosing the best mining algorithm. Basically it's a start/stop mechanism.
One thing against nicehash is that it drops support for older hardware (I don't know how quickly). E.g. the latest version doesn't support my old Dual Core (E5400), but a slightly older version 1.5 does. Maybe they're simply dropping unprofitable parts (like my E5400) - that'll be OK.

As it has been said, mining will cover the initial cost in 3 months tops at current ethereum price, so only a big drop in quote could make this unprofitable. It's your choice how much to invest. 

But there are other things to take into consideration like:
- are you fine with so many cards in your PC (it could be in your bedroom or something) - heat, noise?
- how much power can your home circuit support? People often forget that behind the wall socket is a fairly weak fuse (by modern PC standards). It could be allowing around 2000W max, so be careful. It might happen that you'll have to pause mining for vacuum cleaning etc. 

Check cdawall's photos. His mining with open-case systems in a garage. That solves both issues I've mentioned (and many other).


----------



## FireFox (Jun 8, 2017)

dorsetknob said:


> Then explain to me
> "How Does your Client Software/Program Communicate to download work or upload results/work"
> if it cannot get past/through your firewall ????



Well when i used to Crunch i never opened any port or when i used BitTorrent neither.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 8, 2017)

I have not done anything port wise to the standard windows settings on any of my rigs.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 8, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I have not done anything port wise to the standard windows settings on any of my rigs.



I dont really know why i am getting this error, i disabled hardware firewall and software firewall and nothing, i connected my Pc directly to the internet and nothing 

This is all what i get


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 8, 2017)

silkstone said:


> The worst I can see happening is you have to sell it after a couple of months and break even with the income from mining.
> 
> If I had the spare cash, I'd put more money into it.


The worse i see is i get an epic folding rig with crunchy bonus.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 8, 2017)

How weird. Have you jumped on any of the bitcoin pages to see if it is a common issue?


----------



## FireFox (Jun 8, 2017)

cdawall said:


> How weird. Have you jumped on any of the bitcoin pages to see if it is a common issue?



Nope, i am lost


----------



## cdawall (Jun 8, 2017)

This is why my lazy ass uses nicehash lol


----------



## Troy210 (Jun 8, 2017)

This is weird to me. On the left is Nice Hash's estimation of what a 980Ti should produce. On the right is what I'm actually getting after bench marking a few times on Nice Hash.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 8, 2017)

llllllllllll said:


> View attachment 88876
> 
> This is weird to me. On the left is Nice Hash's estimation of what a 980Ti should produce. On the right is what I'm actually getting after bench marking a few times on Nice Hash.



I have had some issues with that running correctly on nv cards here and there. I actually had a 1060 refuse to run it yesterday everything else worked fine and no artifacts in games.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 8, 2017)

llllllllllll said:


> View attachment 88876
> 
> This is weird to me. On the left is Nice Hash's estimation of what a 980Ti should produce. On the right is what I'm actually getting after bench marking a few times on Nice Hash.


No expert but tick the p0 option in settings and put your pc in performance mode perhaps.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 8, 2017)

For those wondering what the crypto stuff NV was talking about looked like

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-pascal-gpu-cryptocurrency-ethereum-mining/


----------



## silkstone (Jun 9, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> I dont really know why i am getting this error, i disabled hardware firewall and software firewall and nothing, i connected my Pc directly to the internet and nothing
> 
> This is all what i get
> 
> View attachment 88872



You don't actually need all those initial commands with an NVidia GPU. Just got with the last line (the one with the exe.file


----------



## theonedub (Jun 9, 2017)

Rater than mining, how hard is it to just go buy some coins and sit on them? What's the safest place to do it? It can't hurt to buy ~$1,000 worth of Etherirum and see where it goes without bothering to invest in hardware, etc.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 9, 2017)

theonedub said:


> Rater than mining, how hard is it to just go buy some coins and sit on them? What's the safest place to do it? It can't hurt to buy ~$1,000 worth of Etherirum and see where it goes without bothering to invest in hardware, etc.


You would only get 3-4 though. 
But your not wrong , maybe a different coin.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 9, 2017)

So i went LAZY too as @cdawall and installed Nicehash, it's running since last night


----------



## toilet pepper (Jun 9, 2017)

I tried nicehash as well after trying to manually mine using supernova.cc instructions. It took me 3 hours just to understand it. 

I think nicehash is the mist user-friendly out of them all.

@cdawall I was mining zcash with my 1070 and it says my avg is around $5 a day, is this decent performance? Does it like core speed or mem speed? I'm at 2020 core and 2245 mem and temps around 70ish. i aint planning on running this the whole day. Maybe leave it turned on when I'm at work.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 9, 2017)

toilet pepper said:


> I tried nicehash as well after trying to manually mine using supernova.cc instructions. It took me 3 hours just to understand it.
> 
> I think nicehash is the mist user-friendly out of them all.
> 
> @cdawall I was mining zcash with my 1070 and it says my avg is around $5 a day, is this decent performance? Does it like core speed or mem speed? I'm at 2020 core and 2245 mem and temps around 70ish. i aint planning on running this the whole day. Maybe leave it turned on when I'm at work.



That isn't bad. That is clocked a bit higher than the 3 el-cheapo 1070's I am running right now. It likes clocks as a whole, memory makes more of a difference depending on card though.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 9, 2017)

I have adjusted my rigs load out thanks to eBay sales

My main rig

5960x
4x8gb
512gb nvme
2x1080ti@75% tdp
1200w seasonic prime

Miner 1

5820k
Asrock x99 extreme 4
2x8gb
256gb nvme
2xasus 1070 "turbo" +120/+600
Antec tpq1000

Miner 2

6850k
Gb x99m g5
2x8gb
128gb ssd
2x gb windforce 980ti@85% tdp +120/+300
Antec tpq1000

Miner 3

I7 6700t
Asus pro gaming z170
2x8gb
128gb ssd
Zotac mini 1060 3gb@90%tdp +100/+800/gb windforce 390 8gb
Seasonic snowsilent 750w

Miner 4

I7 6700t
Supermicro z170
2x8gb
1tb vraptor
Zotac mini 1060 3gb/msi aero 1070/evga 980ti ftw
Antec tpq1200


----------



## silkstone (Jun 9, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I have adjusted my rigs load out thanks to eBay sales
> 
> My main rig
> 
> ...



How do the 1070's compare to the 1060's, and likewise the 1080 to the 1070?
I'm likely going to upgrade my 1070, as I have a friend over in the states right now where they are a reasonable price (unlike the $600+ here)


----------



## FireFox (Jun 9, 2017)

I am confused, I don't know if buy 2 x 1060 for the price of one 1070 or just buy a single 1070?


----------



## silkstone (Jun 9, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> I am confused, I don't know if buy 2 x 1060 for the price of one 1070 or just buy a single 1070?



From the reading I've done 2x1060 will get you about 42MH/s whereas a single 1070 will get you around 30-33 MH/s, though I'm not 100% on the numbers for a 1070.
If you're interested in maximizing profit, then 1060's make more sense as they are 1/2 the price of a 1070.

I'm looking at a 1070 just because I can always resell it here for more than I can get it from the US and it'll let me go to 1440p in games (gives me an excuse to upgrade my screen too)


----------



## FireFox (Jun 9, 2017)

silkstone said:


> From the reading I've done 2x1060 will get you about 42MH/s whereas a single 1070 will get you around 30-33 MH/s, though I'm not 100% on the numbers for a 1070.
> If you're interested in maximizing profit, then 1060's make more sense as they are 1/2 the price of a 1070.



The thing is that the 1060 3GB are 1/2 the price of a 1070, but if i am not wrong @cdawall mentioned that soon Mining will require more than 3GB of Ram, so, my question is: what does Mining require more Core speed or Memory speed?


*1060 6GB*








*1070 it doesn't unknown GB* 



 


*Comparison 1070 Vs 1060 6GB*


----------



## cdawall (Jun 9, 2017)

1060 3GB 22mh/s that is what they seem the most profitable in (110w)
1070 8GB 32mh/s, but I typically run zcash which is 430sols/s with my listed settings above (140-160w)
1080Ti 11GB 35mh/s, but I run equihash (zcash) or lyra2rev2 (vertcoins) with the neutered TDP it can do 620 sols/s or 62MH/s with overclocks they do 640/66 (neutered TDP puts them at 180w, max puts them at 250-270w)
980Ti 6GB does 430sols/s as well for equihash, but uses 100w more power than the 1070 (240w)
290/290X/390 do 30mh/s, but consumes 300-350w
RX470 does 22mh/s, and consumes around 130w

the 1060 3GB is an excellent value card two of them together will run ethereum 99% of the time as they are pretty lacking in everything else they only do like 290sols/s. If you have the space the multi 1060 setup works well, but be warned they have warned that the difficulty on the ethereum network will go up and require 4GB+. No idea if or when this will actually happen.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 9, 2017)

cdawall said:


> the 1060 3GB is an excellent value card two of them together will run ethereum 99% of the time as they are pretty lacking in everything else they only do like 290sols/s. If you have the space the multi 1060 setup works well, but be warned they have warned that the difficulty on the ethereum network will go up and require 4GB+. No idea if or when this will actually happen.



That is why i would like to go for sure and buy 2 x 1060 6GB.

What about Mining require more Core speed or Memory speed?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 9, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> That is why i would like to go for sure and buy 2 x 1060 6GB.
> 
> What about Mining require more Core speed or Memory speed?



It depends what is specifically being mined. Some of them don't load the memory bus at all. From what I have seen most miners are more ram dependant though.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 9, 2017)

cdawall said:


> 1060 3GB 22mh/s that is what they seem the most profitable in (110w)
> 1070 8GB 32mh/s, but I typically run zcash which is 430sols/s with my listed settings above (140-160w)
> 1080Ti 11GB 35mh/s, but I run equihash (zcash) or lyra2rev2 (vertcoins) with the neutered TDP it can do 620 sols/s or 62MH/s with overclocks they do 640/66 (neutered TDP puts them at 180w, max puts them at 250-270w)
> 980Ti 6GB does 430sols/s as well for equihash, but uses 100w more power than the 1070 (240w)
> ...



Awesome. Thanks for this. I'm actually mining ZEC at the moment because that's what my other rigs can run.
My 1060 = 220 sol/s
My 940m = 35 sol/s
My 9870 myst = 170 sol/s

It looks like the 1070 would double the rate of the 1060 and cost me 50% of the cost of getting a second 1060 (assuming I can sell my existing 1060 for what I hope to)

I'm unlikely to do any serious mining for at least a month, so at least by going with a 1070, if everything goes to hell in that time, I'll still have an awesome GPU.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 9, 2017)

So, i went to buy 5 x 1060 6GB but unfortunately there were just 2 left and i bought it the other 3 come in one week, i paid for each 270€ instead 300€, i am on my way home and will post pics as soon as am there.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 9, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> So, i went to buy 5 x 1060 6GB but unfortunately there were just 2 left and i bought it the other 3 come in one week, i paid for each 270€ instead 300€, i am on my way home and will post pics as soon as am there.



If you are using your current mobo, remember that you'll need riser cards for two of them. You might also want to lower your clocks as 6 cards will be pushing your PSU.

If it all crashes down, the 1060's should keep fairly good resale value, but if that happens, you might just want to mine ETH/ZEC and hold onto it until it rises again.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 9, 2017)

silkstone said:


> If you are using your current mobo, remember that you'll need riser cards for two of them. You might also want to lower your clocks as 6 cards will be pushing your PSU.



For now i will just have the 1080 + 2 x 1060 in my Main Machine, i will build an extra Machine for mining, i have lowered the clocks and the 2 x 1060 are running with an extra PSU.



silkstone said:


> you might just want to mine ETH/ZEC



Can you explain me that?


When i was mining just with the 1080 i had just the left window, after i added the 2 x 1060 appeared the right window







2 X 1060 = 1 X 1080 - both card consume 110W and 1 card run at 1911MHz and the second at 1936MHz and both at 3802 Memory clock.

Those Poor cards are screaming like crazy, i guess i should add 1 or 2 fans.


Testing











The Cards








I don't know if it is worth Overclock it.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 9, 2017)

silkstone said:


> You could, but your rig would support a bunch of GPUs. It would mean that you couldn't game on it whilst mining AFAIK.
> 
> If you build a new rig, u just need a cheap cpu + mobo a big psu and as many cards as you can afford.
> 
> You'd have to just look at the amount of time u spend gaming each day. If it's ~3hrs per day or less (on average) then you'd likely be better off using your current one and getting an additional GPU.


Thats wrong, with Claymore's Dual miner you can shut off any of the gpu's so that you can game any time. Just shut off the main gpu to the PCI-e x16 slot and run the rest of the cards to mine.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 9, 2017)

Built 4 more mining rigs last night with 24 1060 3GBs. Will be up and running and in a few hours in my friends garage in California while I live in another state. I will remotely control it from my laptop.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 9, 2017)

I can't believe they let you buy 24. They have now set hard limits on what you can buy for video cards. 2 per household and pricing shoots up.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 9, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Thats wrong, with Claymore's Dual miner you can shut off any of the gpu's so that you can game any time. Just shut off the main gpu to the PCI-e x16 slot and run the rest of the cards to mine.



@cdawall mentioned that yesterday.



cdawall said:


> Yes and you can mine on the 1060's while gaming on the 1080.



And right now i am playing while the 2x 1060 are mining


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 9, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I can't believe they let you buy 24. They have now set hard limits on what you can buy for video cards. 2 per household and pricing shoots up.


That is what i just found out at the LA micocenter. I went back to replace one of the 1060s and got another one to change for my friend's rx470. If I would have bought another one the price goes up by $30 I think. They didnt say anything about purchase limits at the LA or the Dallas store.
I bought the 24 at the Dallas store on the 4th, when it the new rules start?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 9, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> That is what i just found out at the LA micocenter. I went back to replace one of the 1060s and got another one to change for my friend's rx470. If I would have bought another one the price goes up by $30 I think. They didnt say anything about purchase limits at the LA or the Dallas store.
> I bought the 24 at the Dallas store on the 4th, when it the new rules start?



Earlier this week. It hit the web page like Wednesday or so. I think after another set of 580's all went poof before they even got into the cages.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 9, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I can't believe they let you buy 24. They have now set hard limits on what you can buy for video cards. 2 per household and pricing shoots up.


I got four 580s pre ordered on Amazon you think they will honour it?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 9, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> I got four 580s pre ordered on Amazon you think they will honour it?



Yes. It's Amazon vs a brick and morter store.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 9, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> I got four 580s pre ordered on Amazon you think they will honour it?


Yes they will honor it. If the item has a limit it will say so before you even pay.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 9, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Earlier this week. It hit the web page like Wednesday or so. I think after another set of 580's all went poof before they even got into the cages.


So I guess I was one of the causes for limits. lol


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 10, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Yes they will honor it. If the item has a limit it will say so before you even pay.


I could buy 3 of a type i got one dearer one too.
Start making proto fishtank tomorrow


----------



## cdawall (Jun 10, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> So I guess I was one of the causes for limits. lol



We have a guy trying to buy 500 cards. Even at 24 cards that is small fish in the grand scheme of things. They are going to make it unprofitable for everyone though....


----------



## theonedub (Jun 10, 2017)

So it looks like Coinbase is probably the most simple site to just buy coins to hold and sit on without bothering to build, mine, etc coins yourself.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 10, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Can you explain me that?



I mean that if mining becomes much less profitable, continue to do it but mine ETH or ZEC directly and hold on to the coins until the price goes up.

On a different topic, does anyone know of any other good exchanges other than coinbase? Coinbase won't let me buy/trade due to my location and doesn't support ZEC.


----------



## Ithanul (Jun 10, 2017)

Out of curiosity, how well are those GTX 1060s doing?  All the radeons at the local stores here are gone, but 1060s are still sitting on the shelf.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 10, 2017)

cdawall said:


> We have a guy trying to buy 500 cards. Even at 24 cards that is small fish in the grand scheme of things. They are going to make it unprofitable for everyone though....


I'll be buying about 100 cards next month. Still need to scout out a warehouse with a 300amp breaker.


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## silkstone (Jun 10, 2017)

Ithanul said:


> Out of curiosity, how well are those GTX 1060s doing?  All the radeons at the local stores here are gone, but 1060s are still sitting on the shelf.



They are pretty good, about $3 a day, but the AMD cards are much better.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 10, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> I'll be buying about 100 cards next month. Still need to scout out a warehouse with a 300amp breaker.



Thats nuts to me. I have thought about expanding, but don't have a location. Maybe one day lol. 



silkstone said:


> They are pretty good, about $3 a day, but the AMD cards are much better.



470/570 gets the same 22mh/s while consuming more power. I'm at 3.60+ a card for the 1060 3gb


----------



## FireFox (Jun 10, 2017)

silkstone said:


> ETH or ZEC



If i am mining with Minehash how can i mine with those 2 mentioned above?



cdawall said:


> zcash



The same question for you?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 10, 2017)

equihash is ZEC, dagerhashimito is ethereum. Go to the benchmark page and leave only those checked hit cancel or close or whatever and it will only pick from those.

Be aware VTC is up 67% today. (lyra2rev2)


----------



## silkstone (Jun 10, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> If i am mining with Minehash how can i mine with those 2 mentioned above?
> 
> 
> 
> The same question for you?



For the time being, just go along with Nicehash, it will choose the best thing to mine and pay you in bitcoins that are easily exchanged.

If profitability becomes low, follow the instructions on how to mine ZEC here or ETH here and then continue to mine, but keep a hold of your coins until the price rises again.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 10, 2017)

cdawall said:


> equihash is ZEC, dagerhashimito is ethereum. Go to the benchmark page and leave only those checked hit cancel or close or whatever and it will only pick from those.
> 
> Be aware VTC is up 67% today. (lyra2rev2)



Right now my Cards are mining equihash and Lbry, unfortunately last night it stopped mining dagerhashimito.

Thanks once again.

What would i do without you and @silkstone


----------



## silkstone (Jun 10, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Right now my Cards are mining equihash and Lbry, unfortunately last night it stopped mining dagerhashimito.
> 
> Thanks once again.
> 
> What would i do without you and @silkstone



It's not unfortunate, nicehash decided it could make more $$$ mining something else and so did. It pays out in bitcoins so it makes no real difference what you mine. I only mine currency directly (not using nicehash) as it doesn't work too well on 2gb cards and it only pays out once you reach $30 or so (It'll take a full week for me to reach that at the moment).
I'm just hobby mining at the moment, but I found a great deal on a ROG 1080 for about $550 and I can sell my 1060 for $275 making it a worthwhile upgrade. A bit overkill for my system, but If I can mine on it, I can make up the difference in price in a month or so.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 10, 2017)

If any of you guys have a private wallet for storing your coins dont use any of them. Only use wallets from your online exchanger like Coinbase or Kraken. I just found out that someone sent over 10 ether coins out of my myetherwallet to somewhere else about 20 hours ago.


----------



## notb (Jun 10, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> If any of you guys have a private wallet for storing your coins dont use any of them. Only use wallets from your online exchanger like Coinbase or Kraken. I just found out that someone sent over 10 ether coins out of my myetherwallet to somewhere else about 20 hours ago.


Excellent stuff there. "Someone transferred" $3000 from your account.
Does myetherwallet react to this in any way? Is your wallet insured?
Did you inform the police?


----------



## Caring1 (Jun 10, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> If any of you guys have a private wallet for storing your coins dont use any of them. Only use wallets from your online exchanger like Coinbase or Kraken. I just found out that someone sent over 10 ether coins out of my myetherwallet to somewhere else about 20 hours ago.


I thought wallets are encrypted and the password hashed.
It would be very hard for anyone to hack a wallet, unless it was an inside job or you left the details laying around.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 10, 2017)

silkstone said:


> nicehash decided it could make more $$$ mining something else and so did.



Now i understand why @cdawall is too lazy and so do i.



silkstone said:


> I'm just hobby mining at the moment,



The same here.
If things goes good i will take it seriously building one machine with at least 5 x 1080 and another machine with 5 x 1070.



yotano211 said:


> I just found out that someone sent over 10 ether coins out of my myetherwallet to somewhere else about 20 hours ago.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 10, 2017)

I dont know what happened. I dont leave my passcode info anywhere.


----------



## Caring1 (Jun 10, 2017)

Damn that's a lot of money to lose.
You do all the work and some mongrel takes it.


----------



## notb (Jun 10, 2017)

Caring1 said:


> I thought wallets are encrypted and the password hashed..



But in the end you have to input the password somewhere. There's always a way to get by these kind of security.
Inside job is also a possibility. I know that many people here are very anti-state and love the idea of a "free currency", but in the end they're accessing their money using stuff like MyEtherWallet - a piece of software written by Mr. kvhnuke and Ms. tayvano.
Is MyEtherWallet even connected to a company that you can locate, contact or sue?

BTW: virtual currency thefts happen often enough, so why do people still think this is a secure idea?
In Poland a whole bitcoin exchange site disappeared instantly last year (with around $3m of clients' money - both real and virtual) - it was even owned by a registered company (called... "Digital Future"), had some owners that seemed legit and so on.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 10, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Now i understand why @cdawall is too lazy and so do i.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Whay's your income at the moment with your current 3 cards?


----------



## FireFox (Jun 10, 2017)

silkstone said:


> Whay's your income at the moment with your current 3 cards?



13€+


----------



## silkstone (Jun 10, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> 13€+



Not bad for no work. I'm up to $5 usd a day, but hope to bring that up to $10 this weekend.

On another note, does anyone have any experience with https://remitano.com? It seems to be the easiest way to cash out where I live. The problem I have with traditional brokerages is that I have no proof of address as everything is in my Mrs. name.

Edit - I've not tried it yet, but here's a signup referral *https://remitano.com/vn?ref=silkstone

*


----------



## P4-630 (Jun 10, 2017)

Just saw an ad on facebook passing by, this company is selling some serious miners.

https://www.arcticsecrets.nl/gpu-miners


----------



## silkstone (Jun 10, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> Just saw an ad on facebook passing by, this company is selling some serious miners.
> 
> https://www.arcticsecrets.nl/gpu-miners
> 
> View attachment 88926



Lots of people cashing in. I don't see how the difficulty won't jump soon. I guess there are a lot of speculators hoping that it will go the route of BTC


----------



## FireFox (Jun 10, 2017)

silkstone said:


> Not bad for no work



That's why i keep mining for a month and depending on the profits i will decide if invest 5.000€/6.000€ in hardware.



P4-630 said:


> Just saw an ad on facebook passing by, this company is selling some serious miners.
> 
> https://www.arcticsecrets.nl/gpu-miners
> 
> View attachment 88926



Nah, just see the level one, cost 1599€ with that money i buy 3 X 1070 + motherboard, CPU and the rest of the hardware that I need to build a mining Machine.


----------



## P4-630 (Jun 10, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Nah, just see the level one, cost 1599€ with that money i buy 3 X 1070 + motherboard, CPU and the rest of the hardware that I need to build a mining Machine.



I didn't say they were cheap, I just mean they are selling this hardware specifically for mining purposes.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 10, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> I didn't say they were cheap, I just mean they are selling this hardware specifically for mining purposes.



I know I know, what i mean is that people think that because let's say you make good money mining they can sell those machine overpriced.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 10, 2017)

See what you can even find on Amazon 





I guess i will buy one

Bitcoin USB-Stick Miner bitshopper GekkoScience 2Pac 5,5 bis 25 GH/s (33 GH/s max.)


----------



## P4-630 (Jun 10, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> See what you can even find on Amazon View attachment 88927
> 
> 
> 
> I guess i will buy one



From what I understand about what I posted, that company is using the specific mining modded cards, you may be able to mod a card yourself like these ones but I'm not sure.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 10, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> the specific mining modded cards, you may be able to mod a card yourself like these ones



What would that mean, they claim specific mining modded cards, ummmm, i am now curious to know what they mod.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 10, 2017)

I interacted with gekkoscience back in the day to do some research with them, surprised he is still selling shit.  I wonder if he would remember me?  I helped with developing a PC interface to the old ASICminer chips, and never got anything for it... lol.



Knoxx29 said:


> What would that mean, they claim specific mining modded cards, ummmm, i am now curious to know what they mod.



Almost certainly the bios and power limits.  Maybe just a simple shunt mod.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 10, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> What would that mean, they claim specific mining modded cards, ummmm, i am now curious to know what they mod.



I think they just modify the bios to maximize memory speed and decrease GPU clock. That way you get better efficiency in terms of $$$ per W


----------



## FireFox (Jun 10, 2017)

silkstone said:


> I think they just modify the bios to maximize memory speed and decrease GPU clock. That way you get better efficiency in terms of $$$ per W



Decrease GPU clock and maximize memory speed, i have thought that could be done using Evga precision, that means that mining is based more on memory speed, GPU clock it's not so important


----------



## silkstone (Jun 10, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Decrease GPU clock and maximize memory speed, i have thought that could be done using Evga precision, that means that mining is based more on memory speed, GPU clock it's not so important



Mem clock is more important apparently. And if you are running the cards 24/7 it is in your interests to keep the power usage and temps down at the expense of a few MH


----------



## stinger608 (Jun 10, 2017)

With all this talk in this thread, I'm thinking of setting up a couple of miners. I have spare systems that are not even running. I currently just have an AMD 290 card to use but will be picking up some 1060's or something of that sort soon.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 10, 2017)

silkstone said:


> Mem clock is more important apparently. And if you are running the cards 24/7 it is in your interests to keep the power usage and temps down at the expense of a few MH


 
Shit, i have my 1080 Overclocked, that said i should run it at stock and leave the memory overclocked?


----------



## silkstone (Jun 10, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Shit, i have my 1080 Overclocked, that said i should run it at stock and leave the memory overclocked?



Yes, if you're running it 24/7 it's better to keep it cooler. You'll loose a couple of MH, but gain more piece of mind.


----------



## P4-630 (Jun 10, 2017)

The gaming days are over!!


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 10, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> The gaming days are over!!


But on the plus side you might get an hour or two on a four card xfire system on gtaV  if lucky


----------



## silkstone (Jun 10, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> The gaming days are over!!



Yes, it's a little silly. 

Locally all the 570's 580's are gone. 480's are going for $400 second hand. 1060 3gbs can't be found for much lower than $275 and the only 6gb versions are over $350. Any reasonably priced 1070's get snapped up in minutes. I need to make a decision on 1080 by tomorrow, it's 1 y.o. priced at $550 so not to bad, the only caveat is that the remaining warranty is a US one, the next cheapest I've found is for a 3 m.o card that is $620 and i'm really not too keen on spending so much.

I'd love to just get a couple of new 580's a run a crossfire system which would be priced the same, be new and have pretty decent performance.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 10, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> The gaming days are over!!



Not really i can do both at the same time.


----------



## P4-630 (Jun 10, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Not really i can do both at the same time.



But...But... Don't you want to become _a die hard_ miner then??


----------



## FireFox (Jun 10, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> But...But... Don't you want to become _a die hard_ miner then??



Of course, in a month i will let you know if i buy the 5 x 1080 and 5 x 1070


----------



## P4-630 (Jun 10, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Of course, in a month i will let you know if i buy the 5 x 1080 and 5 x 1070



LOL!  Don't forget to show-off your mining rigs then!


----------



## FireFox (Jun 10, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> LOL!  Don't forget to show-off your mining rigs then!



I like the way you make fun of me


----------



## P4-630 (Jun 10, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> I like the way you make fun of me



Actually I do want to see them if you really do it!!


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 10, 2017)

Same here knoxx29  im setting up my first dedicated miner ,not got a proper psu or its gpus yet but i have got an r9 390 and base 750 watt ocz psu to set it up so its ready.
Already got a sabertooth and fx8350(another one) ready to go  and the scabbiest case I've seen in a while ,some cig stainidge as i got given it i cant complain.


----------



## Ithanul (Jun 10, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Thats nuts to me. I have thought about expanding, but don't have a location. Maybe one day lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 470/570 gets the same 22mh/s while consuming more power. I'm at 3.60+ a card for the 1060 3gb



Hmmm, so electricity wise the 1060 wins out.  So, ETH and Zcash is best with Nvidia cards correct?


----------



## silkstone (Jun 10, 2017)

Ithanul said:


> Hmmm, so electricity wise the 1060 wins out.  So, ETH and Zcash is best with Nvidia cards correct?



Both are better with AMD cards. AMD uses more electricity, but makes up for it in hashing power. The 580s are supposed to be v. good.


----------



## Ithanul (Jun 10, 2017)

silkstone said:


> Both are better with AMD cards. AMD uses more electricity, but makes up for it in hashing power. The 580s are supposed to be v. good.


Well I can't get any AMD cards at the moment without the inflated price.  So, going to nab 1060s instead until I can get my hands on some AMD cards.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 10, 2017)

silkstone said:


> Both are better with AMD cards. AMD uses more electricity, but makes up for it in hashing power. The 580s are supposed to be v. good.



They were a good price for performance. The 390 still pulls off $5 a day in ethereum, but it uses double the power that a 1070 does.


----------



## silentbogo (Jun 10, 2017)

Just checked my local retailer - almost everything is gone. 
RX400 and 500-series completely gone, GTX1060 (both 3 and 6GB) sold out last week, 1070 nowhere to be found. 
The only options available are GT1030, GTX1080 and an oversized dual-fan RX460.
What's funny, is that R9 370 is still in stock. People are probably afraid to buy a cheap-looking AFOX-branded card w/ green PCB, totally not knowing that it is essentially Foxconn's ugly creation.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 10, 2017)

1 x 1060 uses 100W Am i wrong?


----------



## silentbogo (Jun 10, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> 1 x 1060 uses 100W Am i wrong?


120W according to spec.
http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-1060/specifications


----------



## FireFox (Jun 10, 2017)

silentbogo said:


> 120W according to spec.
> http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-1060/specifications



In full load it should consume 120W


----------



## silentbogo (Jun 10, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> In full load it should consume 120W


That's the card's max TDP. Also don't forget about PSU efficiency, cause even if it is pulling 100W per card, it can be as high as 125W per card from the wall with a cheap 80+ White or Bronze PSU.
I know that a 5xGTX1060 mining rig with Celeron G1840 + 8GB DDR3 + SSD and an 80+ Gold PSU is pulling around 700W from the wall.
Not mine, but I saw it working up in one of the offices I visited recently. They had something similar to Kill-a-watt to measure effective power consumption.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 10, 2017)

silentbogo said:


> Just checked my local retailer - almost everything is gone.
> RX400 and 500-series completely gone, GTX1060 (both 3 and 6GB) sold out last week, 1070 nowhere to be found.
> The only options available are GT1030, GTX1080 and an oversized dual-fan RX460.
> What's funny, is that R9 370 is still in stock. People are probably afraid to buy a cheap-looking AFOX-branded card w/ green PCB, totally not knowing that it is essentially Foxconn's ugly creation.



Yes. Everyone is going Cryptocrazy! I think someone mentioned (maybe in this thread) that AMD and Nvidia are going to release mining versions of their cards to try to reduce supply chain issues.


----------



## P4-630 (Jun 10, 2017)

silkstone said:


> Yes. Everyone is going Cryptocrazy! I think someone mentioned (maybe in this thread) that AMD and Nvidia are going to release mining versions of their cards to try to reduce supply chain issues.



https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...ining-oriented-versions-of-their-gpus.234113/


----------



## FireFox (Jun 10, 2017)

silentbogo said:


> That's the card's max TDP. Also don't forget about PSU efficiency, cause even if it is pulling 100W per card, it can be as high as 125W per card from the wall with a cheap 80+ White or Bronze PSU.
> I know that a 5xGTX1060 mining rig with Celeron G1840 + 8GB DDR3 + SSD and an 80+ Gold PSU is pulling around 700W from the wall.
> Not mine, but I saw it working up in one of the offices I visited recently. They had something similar to Kill-a-watt to measure effective power consumption.



I asked because mine are using max 115W, not each one both together, how could that be


----------



## HD64G (Jun 10, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Thats nuts to me. I have thought about expanding, but don't have a location. Maybe one day lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 470/570 gets the same 22mh/s while consuming more power. I'm at 3.60+ a card for the 1060 3gb


Power limit at -15% on Sapphire Trixx makes even a Nitro RX480+ OC to consume just 130W while giving 28MH/s. So, RX470 using the smae trick can give 24-25MH/s consuming close to 110W. Even 390X can give over 30MH's with some undervolting to consume lower than 200W. Ethereum mining is better on CGN arch. That will not change until Volta launches. And if mining is profitable by then.


----------



## silentbogo (Jun 10, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> I asked because mine are using max 115W, not each one both together, how could that be


Maybe not fully loaded?
Stock 1060 3GB should do around 22-23Mhash/s, from what I've heard.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 10, 2017)

HD64G said:


> Power limit at -15% on Sapphire Trixx makes even a Nitro RX480+ OC to consume just 130W while giving 28MH/s. So, RX470 using the smae trick can give 24-25MH/s consuming close to 110W. Even 390X can give over 30MH's with some undervolting to consume lower than 200W. Ethereum mining is better on CGN arch. That will not change until Volta launches. And if mining is profitable by then.



I am running a 390@over 30MH/s with undervolting. It consumes more than 300w at the wall. No idea where your numbers came from, but that was -100mV and the lowest it was stable. The 470's need a BIOS mod to come close to 24-25MH/s and the 1070 does 32MH/s while consuming 150w, so what is GCN doing better again?


----------



## FireFox (Jun 10, 2017)

silentbogo said:


> Maybe not fully loaded?
> Stock 1060 3GB should do around 22-23Mhash/s, from what I've heard.



I have checked and both are 100%.

Is there any benefit if i downclock the GPU clock offset and increase the Memory clock offset?


----------



## ST.o.CH (Jun 10, 2017)

Hi guys, what do you think about an asus crosshair V formula to set three or four cards without risers?,
has a good vrm system and power deliver and the cpu itself can be set some disabled cores.

BTW nice thread and good info.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 10, 2017)

ST.o.CH said:


> Hi guys, what do you think about an asus crosshair V formula to set three or four cards without risers?,
> has a good vrm system and power deliver and the cpu itself can be set some disabled cores.
> 
> BTW nice thread and good info.



Certainly wouldn't buy it for mining, too expensive.  If you already own it that's a different story.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 10, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> If you already own it that's a different story.



+1

@ST.o.CH

don't be lazy and get an Asus Z270-P with a few risers.


----------



## ST.o.CH (Jun 10, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Certainly wouldn't buy it for mining, too expensive.  If you already own it that's a different story.


I can get one or two in second hand by 140~160€ each, also the price of risers of 12~14€ each with a lower combo will get the result closer to the asus crosshair value, just an idea.
For now I´ve ordered two rx580 4gb and don´t know wen they arrive.
Just waiting,lol.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 10, 2017)

ST.o.CH said:


> 140~160€



And the Asus Z270-P cost 119€ on Amazon.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 10, 2017)

ST.o.CH said:


> I can get one or two in second hand by 140~160€ each, also the price of risers of 12~14€ each with a lower combo will get the result closer to the asus crosshair value, just an idea.
> For now I´ve ordered two rx580 4gb and don´t know wen they arrive.
> Just waiting,lol.


Im using a crosshairv formla ,its fine , i bought a sabertooth and chip for 135 from these fair forums so at the right price id say they're ok for upto 5 with one riser.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 10, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Im using a crosshairv formla ,its fine , i bought a sabertooth and chip for 135 from these fair forums so at the right price id say they're ok for upto 5 with one riser.



Why do you have to contradict me

Joke


----------



## ST.o.CH (Jun 10, 2017)

I already have a sabertooh 990 r2.0 and one h97 that I can set six cards without risers.
I just feel more appealing have one mobo high end with four cards instead of having five or six cards with risers with a lower motherboard, the extra money invested will bring more days of mining in the future, at least theoretical.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 10, 2017)

ST.o.CH said:


> I already have a sabertooh 990 r2.0 and one h97 that I can set six cards without risers.
> I just feel more appealing have one mobo high end with four cards instead of having five or six cards with risers with a lower motherboard, the extra money invested will bring more days of mining in the future, at least theoretical.



All of the boards I am running are pretty highend...


----------



## r9 (Jun 10, 2017)

What is the gtx 1070  MH/s on ethereum ?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 10, 2017)

r9 said:


> What is the gtx 1070  MH/s on ethereum ?


 32 MH/S


----------



## r9 (Jun 10, 2017)

cdawall said:


> 32 MH/S


Is that the maximum or overclocking the VRAM would bump it even higher ?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 10, 2017)

r9 said:


> Is that the maximum or overclocking the VRAM would bump it even higher ?



That is what mine hit with stock TDP limit +150-175mhz core and +650mhz memory


----------



## HD64G (Jun 10, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I am running a 390@over 30MH/s with undervolting. It consumes more than 300w at the wall. No idea where your numbers came from, but that was -100mV and the lowest it was stable. The 470's need a BIOS mod to come close to 24-25MH/s and the 1070 does 32MH/s while consuming 150w, so what is GCN doing better again?


Do you know Fury Nano? Beats 1070s on performance with lower power consumption just with undervolting. 1070 needs moding also to get to 32 and consume 150W. And 390s need both undervoltage and using power limit to go towards 200W and keep performing to over 30MH's. And how does it consume 300W while undervolting since it consumes that on gaming without undervolting? Dual-coin mining maybe? Try to mine only Ethereum. Much better for power consumption, temps, noise.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 10, 2017)

cdawall said:


> 150-175mhz core



what do you mean by that?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 10, 2017)

HD64G said:


> Do you know Fury Nano? Beats 1070s on performance with lower power consumption just with undervolting. 1070 needs moding also to get to 32 and consume 150W. And 390s need both undervoltage and using power limit to go towards 200W and keep performing to over 30MH's. And how does it consume 300W while undervolting since it consumes that on gaming without undervolting? Dual-coin mining maybe? Try to mine only Ethereum. Much better for power consumption, temps, noise.



So *one* AMD card beats the 1070? You know my 1080Ti can do 680sols/s in equihash while consuming 180W. As things sit with the new miners running AMD is falling behind, things are taking advantage of nvidias cuda cores now. The 390 is set to +5.5% core clock, 1700mhz memory -100mV and 90%TDP. Consumes roughly 315w.  It is only running equihash and ethereum depending on what is more profitable at the time. It runs in the garage with a 255CFM fan pulling air across, I could give a fuck less about noise.

I still have a fury, 390 and 270X mining from AMD right now. I am overly disappointed when comparing them to a GP104/GP106 based rig. The typical power boost through everything AMD crap gets old. I sold my 290/290X/290X/470 and got 2 1070's and 1 1080Ti for the same price. Power consumption is down by 480w or so, hash rate is the same.



Knoxx29 said:


> what do you mean by that?



Overclock settings are +150 (to 175mhz depending on card) and +650mhz on the memory. They are all blower style reference cards (asus turbo and msi aero)


----------



## Ithanul (Jun 10, 2017)

silentbogo said:


> Just checked my local retailer - almost everything is gone.
> RX400 and 500-series completely gone, GTX1060 (both 3 and 6GB) sold out last week, 1070 nowhere to be found.
> The only options available are GT1030, GTX1080 and an oversized dual-fan RX460.
> What's funny, is that R9 370 is still in stock. People are probably afraid to buy a cheap-looking AFOX-branded card w/ green PCB, totally not knowing that it is essentially Foxconn's ugly creation.



Hmmm, then most likely it best I run over to Best Buy today and nab those GTX 1060s that are still in stock.  Believe the Best Buy in Panama City still has some as well.  Considering I can nab some for around 183 bucks a piece for the 3GB models.

Once mining calms down, I will then have a nice little folding rig.  Or, thin out for the top ones for my F@H/BOINC rig.

What are some good risers for cards?


----------



## FireFox (Jun 10, 2017)

Ithanul said:


> Once mining calms down,



You should be happy if it doesn't calm down.


----------



## Ithanul (Jun 10, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> You should be happy if it doesn't calm down.


It will probably calm down again like last time.  Then most likely another rally will occur again later on.

Though, ethereum, by what I read about it, has greater potential than Bitcoin.  The thing is, ethereum will be switching from POW to POS.  Going to be interesting to see how that crypto coin develops over time.


----------



## r9 (Jun 10, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I am running a 390@over 30MH/s with undervolting. It consumes more than 300w at the wall. No idea where your numbers came from, but that was -100mV and the lowest it was stable. The 470's need a BIOS mod to come close to 24-25MH/s and the 1070 does 32MH/s while consuming 150w, so what is GCN doing better again?


How much can you get out of GTX 1060 and is there a downside having the 3GB version ?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 10, 2017)

r9 said:


> How much can you get out of GTX 1060 and is there a downside having the 3GB version ?



Some of the miners (ethereum) are rumored to move to minimum 4GB of ram, and it is less cuda cores than the 6GB. I use all 3GB cards. I have like a 41 day ROI on mine had I not used the money from my 290's to buy them.


----------



## r9 (Jun 11, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Some of the miners (ethereum) are rumored to move to minimum 4GB of ram, and it is less cuda cores than the 6GB. I use all 3GB cards. I have like a 41 day ROI on mine had I not used the money from my 290's to buy them.


So what is the MH/s on those ?


----------



## Toothless (Jun 11, 2017)

So while reading this, mind that I work in retail, one-stop-shop store and today I'm not in my usual department.

I'm doing my usual and this guy comes in asking if he can install a different OS on one of our Chromebooks, and I go ahead and tell him no due to restrictions. He then tells me he's getting into the crypto currency rave and I could only look at him and think "this poor guy is gonna have an angry wife when it all crashes."

Just a thing from today, thought it was different.


----------



## r9 (Jun 11, 2017)

Toothless said:


> So while reading this, mind that I work in retail, one-stop-shop store and today I'm not in my usual department.
> 
> I'm doing my usual and this guy comes in asking if he can install a different OS on one of our Chromebooks, and I go ahead and tell him no due to restrictions. He then tells me he's getting into the crypto currency rave and I could only look at him and think "this poor guy is gonna have an angry wife when it all crashes."
> 
> Just a thing from today, thought it was different.


With the chromebook ?


----------



## Toothless (Jun 11, 2017)

r9 said:


> With the chromebook ?


Yep.


----------



## r9 (Jun 11, 2017)

Toothless said:


> Yep.


Don't know what to say.
Guess its how it starts.
First he tries to mine with Chromebook and figures out that it sucks than he does a little research that tells him that rx480/rx580 are the best for it and than he goes on ebay and spends ridiculous amount on auction. lol


----------



## cdawall (Jun 11, 2017)

r9 said:


> So what is the MH/s on those ?



Well I was testing them at some toasty overclocks for 24MH/s, but cant keep it stable (+250/+900). They are perfectly stable at +200/+800 and that does 22.5MH/s in ethereum


----------



## Ithanul (Jun 11, 2017)

Hey cdawall, since you run a 1080Ti and 1070s.  What clocks do you run and which OS?  Thinking of firing up my 1080Ti for some mining.

Also just made a deal with my Dad, going 50/50 on some cards.  After the whole mining deal is over, I get to keep the cards.   
But darn it getting nuts, just checked Best Buy here.  The Nvidia cards are starting to get wiped off the shelves too.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 11, 2017)

I have to say, having been on the other end of mining (being a miner) and making fun of gamers back when I was doing it, it hurts to be on the other end of the stick.  I hope these supply issues are resolved somehow one way or another.


----------



## Ithanul (Jun 11, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> I have to say, having been on the other end of mining (being a miner) and making fun of gamers back when I was doing it, it hurts to be on the other end of the stick.  I hope these supply issues are resolved somehow one way or another.


You looking for Radeon cards or Nvidia?

I will be down in Panama City on Monday.  I can keep an eye out for any cards I see.  I know they don't have Radeon cards, but last I check they still had some GTX 1060s and other Nvidia model cards.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 11, 2017)

Ithanul said:


> You looking for Radeon cards or Nvidia?
> 
> I will be down in Panama City on Monday.  I can keep an eye out for any cards I see.  I know they don't have Radeon cards, but last I check they still had some GTX 1060s and other Nvidia model cards.



Looking for cards as a gamer.  No way I'd pay what they are going for now, but thanks.  Honestly, my Titan X I got on fleabay is fine anyhow.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 11, 2017)

Ithanul said:


> Hey cdawall, since you run a 1080Ti and 1070s.  What clocks do you run and which OS?  Thinking of firing up my 1080Ti for some mining.
> 
> Also just made a deal with my Dad, going 50/50 on some cards.  After the whole mining deal is over, I get to keep the cards.
> But darn it getting nuts, just checked Best Buy here.  The Nvidia cards are starting to get wiped off the shelves too.



I will post the exact ones when I am home. The 1080Ti's I run underclocked since I want to keep them lol it is like 75% TDP and +300 memory.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 11, 2017)

So I figured a way I can mine while overseas  I set up a VPN to my home network and can now use WOL at will as well as RDCs. That makes it much more worthwhile to get a 1080 now. I think I'm going to go for it 
The reason I can't just keep them on 24/7 is that there are power outages here during the summer. We can sometimes go months without them, but sometimes we get a couple per week.

It'll also help me hide it from the Mrs. as I'm sure she'd start complaining about the power usage.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 11, 2017)

silkstone said:


> So I figured a way I can mine while overseas  I set up a VPN to my home network and can now use WOL at will as well as RDCs. That makes it much more worthwhile to get a 1080 now. I think I'm going to go for it
> The reason I can't just keep them on 24/7 is that there are power outages here during the summer. We can sometimes go months without them, but sometimes we get a couple per week.
> 
> It'll also help me hide it from the Mrs. as I'm sure she'd start complaining about the power usage.


You can use teamviewer to control your mining rigs remotely. Right now I am using TV to control 12 rigs from 1300 miles away while I am building some more at a friends house in California. 
Set up TV to run unattended access and you'll be fine.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 11, 2017)

I picked up a couple more of the 1060 3GB cards. Only got one plumbed into the rigs since I am waiting on my riser cables to show up.

I have also broken 200mh/s in ethereum finally lol

3x1070
3x1060
1x390


----------



## FireFox (Jun 11, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I will post the exact ones when I am home. The 1080Ti's I run underclocked since I want to keep them lol it is like 75% TDP and +300 memory.



To underclock the cards what software do you use, Evga precision?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 11, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> To underclock the cards what software do you use, Evga precision?



Msi after burner. For shits and giggles I have my 1070s all overclocked right now

+200/+650/+12%tdp on the Asus cards
+150/+600/5%tdp on the msi card


----------



## FireFox (Jun 11, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Msi after burner. For shits and giggles I have my 1070s all overclocked right now
> 
> +200/+650/+12%tdp on the Asus cards
> +150/+600/5%tdp on the msi card



That's what i don't understand, in a few posts back we were talking about to underclock the cards in order they use less power but now you say you OC it, i am confused, should the cards run stock or OC'ed?

+200/+650 = +200 Core clock +650 Memory clock, +12% Power limit, is that what you mean?


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 11, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> That's what i don't understand, in a few posts back we were talking about to underclock the cards in order they use less power but now you say you OC it, i am confused, should the cards run stock or OC'ed?
> 
> +200/+650 = +200 Core clock +650 Memory clock, +12% Power limit, is that what you mean?


It really depends on what coins you mine. Ether requires faster memory speeds so underclock the gpu core and overclock the memory if you can.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 11, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> It really depends on what coins you mine. Ether requires faster memory speeds so underclock the gpu core and overclock the memory if you can.



Lbry and DaggerHashimoto, is that what you mean?


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 11, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Lbry and DaggerHashimoto, is that what you mean?


I dont use nicehash so I cant tell you what coins are best for memory or gpu core overclock. I mine ether and Siacoin with a dual miner. Some machines have this setup most of them dont. I am still waiting on some 1200 watts psu.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 11, 2017)

Maybe @silkstone could tell me.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 11, 2017)

I got
my new baby 









Knoxx29 said:


> Maybe @silkstone could tell me.



It's really all about testing them.

Run both ETH miners and ZEC miners (at different times) and note down the hash rate when you do a core oc vs stock.
Note down the hashrates and put them into here.

You shouldn't notice much of a difference when mining ETH, but I'm not 100 % sure when mining ZEC. For me, the difference between being underclocked and overclocked is about 5 Hash/s

You could also just play around with the overclocks and look at what Nicehash gives you.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 11, 2017)

silkstone said:


> I got
> my new baby
> 
> 
> ...


We need the sex and what species is that card


----------



## silkstone (Jun 11, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> We need the sex and what species is that card



ASUS ROG1080 Strixx. It's officially the most expensive computer part I have ever bought and, to be honest, I felt a little bit dirty (in a good way) putting it in my dusty old case with the 2nd Gen i5.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 11, 2017)

@cdawall told me:


cdawall said:


> equihash is ZEC, dagerhashimito is ethereum.



And that's what my Cards are mining.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 11, 2017)

Holy $&%!. This thing is giving me 500 Sols/s on 85% TDP, core clock and +500 mem. All at 65 C


----------



## FireFox (Jun 11, 2017)

silkstone said:


> Holy $&%!. This thing is giving me 500 Sols/s on 85% TDP, core clock and +500 mem. All at 65 C



Why your says H/s and mine says MH/s or GH/s


----------



## silkstone (Jun 11, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Why your says H/s and mine says MH/s or GH/s



I'm mining ZEC. My 1060 was only giving me 220 H/s. When mining ETH it was getting 22 MH/s so as a rough translation 10 H/s on ZEC = 1 MH/s on ETH


----------



## silentbogo (Jun 11, 2017)

Now, I have a personal set of questions to you, guys:
1) Do you mine standalone, or in a pool? If so, which is the best pool for collective mining?
2) Do you keep your ether, exchange it to BTC or dumping for cash?


----------



## silkstone (Jun 11, 2017)

silentbogo said:


> Now, I have a personal set of questions to you, guys:
> 1) Do you mine standalone, or in a pool? If so, which is the best pool for collective mining?
> 2) Do you keep your ether, exchange it to BTC or dumping for cash?



1) I personally use flypool. Not using a pool makes it more of a game of chance. I'm using flypool for both ZEC and ETH. It got good reviews a while ago and it paysout fairly fast.
2) I haven't really made enough to do anything with it yet. I'm holding on to ZEC at the moment though and I will likely exchange 50% of it to BTC and then to USD and keep the other 50% in ZEC.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 11, 2017)

silkstone said:


> I haven't really made enough to do anything with it yet.





silentbogo said:


> 2) Do you keep your ether, exchange it to BTC or dumping for cash?



Once i get pay transfer the money to my account, in some previous post i heard a few things about  big companies vanishing with millions and millions of dollars/Euro.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 11, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Once i get pay transfer the money to my account, in some previous post i heard a few things about  big companies vanishing with millions and millions of dollars/Euro.



Yes I lost 8 BTC to one of the companies closing down (an alleged theft). I'll likely keep any virtual currency spread over multiple wallets


----------



## silentbogo (Jun 11, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Once i get pay transfer the money to my account, in some previous post i heard a few things about  big companies vanishing with millions and millions of dollars/Euro.


That's pretty much the reason I asked.
I do not personally mine(yet), but a friend of mine have been bugging me about building a rig for the past 2 weeks. The rig is built from my scrap parts (Z77, G530, 4GB DDR3, 120GB SSD), currently up and running for testing. RDP on Ubuntu is working fine, all we are waiting for is cards.
There are lots of miners here, but the biggest Ukrainian pool only has <400 members, only about 50 active members (much less if you count those with hashrate above 10MH/s), and their transaction history looks a bit shady (at least from a few months ago). The only upside is 0.5% fee and anonymity, but I'm not sure if it's worth a risk. Currently looking at ethermine.org for mining, and some alternatives for cashing out to PP at some point.


----------



## dorsetknob (Jun 11, 2017)

silentbogo said:


> There are lots of miners here,



Hi ho Hi ho its oft to crypto mine we go


----------



## FireFox (Jun 11, 2017)

dorsetknob said:


> Hi ho Hi ho its oft to crypto mine we go



I am the last one.


----------



## MIRTAZAPINE (Jun 11, 2017)

I have lurking around this thread for awhile. I interested in jumping onto the crypto bandwagon where do you recommend I start. I was checking my local retailer and found a gtx 1060 selling on discount on only 2 days. How should I jump? Have one or two motherboard lying around I can use.

Thought I knew about crypto currency I never really jumped into it.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 11, 2017)

@cdawall is the right guy to answer your questions


----------



## cdawall (Jun 11, 2017)

Right now a 1060 3gb can do around 22mh/s in Ethereum. Two of those would be around $7-8usd


----------



## FireFox (Jun 11, 2017)

@cdawall do you mind to read post 311 on page 13, i bet you can give me the right answer


----------



## cdawall (Jun 11, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> That's what i don't understand, in a few posts back we were talking about to underclock the cards in order they use less power but now you say you OC it, i am confused, should the cards run stock or OC'ed?
> 
> +200/+650 = +200 Core clock +650 Memory clock, +12% Power limit, is that what you mean?



Some of my stuff is under clocked I was playing with clock speeds to see if I could get more out of them zcash seems to love core speed, Ethereum loves ram speed. So I pushed both up since I switch during the day. 

And your assumption is correct on those settings.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 11, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I was playing with clock speeds to see if I could get more out of them



was it worth?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 11, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> was it worth?



I'm at 8 cents a kw/h so the added power in equihash seems to be worth it for performance gained.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 11, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I'm at 8 cents a kw/h so the added power in equihash seems to be worth it for performance gained.



I'm at $0.12 per kw/h, if not more 

Strange you saw such big gains. Pushing my 1080 up by + 100 MHz nets me an extra 20 sols/s (Hash/s) and bumping it down by 200 only reduces it by 10-15 sols/s.

I am noticing a huge difference between miners though.
On nicehash vs. ZEC miner i'm getting
1080: 430 H/s vs 500 H/s
1060: 220 H/s vs. 290 H/s

A couple of 1060's in a standalone rig seems as good as any.
Nicehash is a good starters mining program, but if you want to make a little more or choose the coins you get, take a look at flypool.


----------



## MIRTAZAPINE (Jun 11, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Right now a 1060 3gb can do around 22mh/s in Ethereum. Two of those would be around $7-8usd



OK then I'll purchase the gtx 1060 its a 6GB version though for about $200 after coupon. Can only get one piece now.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 11, 2017)

MIRTAZAPINE said:


> OK then I'll purchase the gtx 1060 its a 6GB version though for about $200 after coupon. Can only get one piece now.



In that case, put it in your current PC and use it to mine when you are not gaming.


----------



## Ithanul (Jun 11, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I will post the exact ones when I am home. The 1080Ti's I run underclocked since I want to keep them lol it is like 75% TDP and +300 memory.


Alright, so keep the power draw down on the 1080Ti then.
Nabbed two GTX1070s (actually my Dad bought that as part of the 50/50).  Probably get some GTX1060s tomorrow as my 50/50 part for the setup.  Thankfully, I hoard CPUs and Mobos.  I got one GTX980Ti left.  May throw that in too.

Start goal setup by end of tomorrow will be this:
1 x 1080Ti (part time mining)
2 x 1070
2 or 3 x 1060 (if I can find that many)
1 x 980Ti (undervolt that puppy for sure)

I just saw the post about using MSI Afterburner, so you run them under Windows.
Hmmm, I think I will give a wack at running mine under a Linux distro since I already got ETH client running on my 2nd rig with ease which runs on a Linux distro.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 11, 2017)

As I have said several times. I am lazy. I use windows RDP to control my shit while sitting drinking a beer from the couch.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 11, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I use windows RDP to control my shit while sitting drinking a beer from the couch.



Right, while you sit and drink a beer your Machine work to makes money for you.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 11, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Right, while you sit and drink a beer your Machine work to makes money for you.



You really know it is making the most money since I am doing it from a macbook pro.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 11, 2017)

Despite a dodgy psu power switch ive got my first dedicated miner up and running, just need some GPUs now lol
I've got 3 cards and 90mhs for now.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 12, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Despite a dodgy psu power switch ive got my first dedicated miner up and running, just need some GPUs now lol
> I've got 3 cards and 90mhs for now.



As we speak my rigs are doing 110MH/s (ethereum) and 4800sol/s (zcash) LOL


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 12, 2017)

cdawall said:


> As we speak my rigs are doing 110MH/s (ethereum) and 4800sol/s (zcash) LOL


Are you just leaving them todo what they want , how dya dual mine , have you seen a guide for nicehash


----------



## cdawall (Jun 12, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Are you just leaving them todo what they want , how dya dual mine , have you seen a guide for nicehash



I limit them to only mine ethereum, zcash and vertcoin. I am not setup to dual mine on these. I don't think my current setup could handle the additional heat and it doesn't look worth it from what I am seeing. I could be wrong, but just not worth more heat in my rig lol.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 12, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I limit them to only mine ethereum, zcash and vertcoin. I am not setup to dual mine on these. I don't think my current setup could handle the additional heat and it doesn't look worth it from what I am seeing. I could be wrong, but just not worth more heat in my rig lol.



If you use the custom miners, rather than Nicehash, you'll actually increase you income by 20-40%, you just have to be ready to switch between coins as the price fluctuates.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 12, 2017)

silkstone said:


> If you use the custom miners, rather than Nicehash, you'll actually increase you income by 20-40%, you just have to be ready to switch between coins as the price fluctuates.



Yes I know I could, but I would have to have everything to switch on a dime. I spend 10-12 hours a day away from home so using nicehash allows me to do generic currency switching while not at home.


----------



## Readlight (Jun 12, 2017)

What pools and wallet you more like, recommend?


----------



## FireFox (Jun 12, 2017)

cdawall said:


> (zcash



Is it zcash = ZEC.



cdawall said:


> vertcoin



Which one is that?


----------



## silkstone (Jun 12, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Yes I know I could, but I would have to have everything to switch on a dime. I spend 10-12 hours a day away from home so using nicehash allows me to do generic currency switching while not at home.



The profitability between ZEC and ETH doesn't switch that drastically, does it?

I thought that ZEC was good for Nvidia cards and ETH for AMD. I know that Nicehash does the automatic switch, but the lower hashrates is quite off putting. I think you can use different miners with NH, though I'm not sure how.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 12, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Is it zcash = ZEC.
> 
> 
> 
> Which one is that?



Yes and VTC is the lyra2rev2 based one. 



silkstone said:


> The profitability between ZEC and ETH doesn't switch that drastically, does it?
> 
> I thought that ZEC was good for Nvidia cards and ETH for AMD. I know that Nicehash does the automatic switch, but the lower hashrates is quite off putting. I think you can use different miners with NH, though I'm not sure how.



Depending on day I have seen the cards gain a dollar a day depending on which of the two is mined. Pascal seems to be just as fast mining zcash as it does Ethereum. The older Maxwell stuff is only really good at zcash with the current miner though. 

Who gets lower hash rates with nicehash? It uses the same miners you can run command line and I get the same hash rates as people I work with running command line.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 12, 2017)

@cdawall 

is there any way to set if you want to be paid daily or weekly etc etc.?


----------



## r9 (Jun 12, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Right now a 1060 3gb can do around 22mh/s in Ethereum. Two of those would be around $7-8usd


I'm buying gtx 1060 6gb and rx 460 4GB today.
Do you have to run multiple instances of the NiceHash to mine with multiple cards ?


----------



## r9 (Jun 12, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> @cdawall
> 
> is there any way to set if you want to be paid daily or weekly etc etc.?


Sellers are paid on PPS (Pay Per Share) system under the next schedule:
- Once per day for NiceHash-wallet unpaid balances, greater than 0.001 BTC.
- Once per day for external-wallet unpaid balances, greater than 0.1 BTC.
- Once per week for external-wallet unpaid balances, greater than 0.01 BTC.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 12, 2017)

r9 said:


> I'm buying gtx 1060 6gb and rx 460 4GB today.
> Do you have to run multiple instances of the NiceHash to mine with multiple cards ?



Nope single instance can handle all your cards.


----------



## r9 (Jun 12, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Nope single instance can handle all your cards.


I was hoping for that.
What is a difference between 3gb and and 6gb in MH/s having that extra shaders.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 12, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Yes and VTC is the lyra2rev2 based one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



When running nicehash standalone miner (the same one that comes bundled with the nicehash GUI) I get around 400 H/s, but when running ZEC miner I'm getting 500 H/s. I might have had it configured wrong, but I followed the instructions on the authors page.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 12, 2017)

r9 said:


> Sellers are paid on PPS (Pay Per Share) system under the next schedule:
> - Once per day for NiceHash-wallet unpaid balances, greater than 0.001 BTC.
> - Once per day for external-wallet unpaid balances, greater than 0.1 BTC.
> - Once per week for external-wallet unpaid balances, greater than 0.01 BTC.



Weird, i haven't get any payment.


----------



## Divide Overflow (Jun 12, 2017)

Can't find a Metacritic score for this game, but I'd only give it a one or two at best.
Absurd hardware requirements for horrible graphics and I STILL haven't gotten the sound to work!


----------



## silkstone (Jun 12, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Weird, i haven't get any payment.









Click the circled link and it'll tell you when you can expect a payout.


----------



## r9 (Jun 12, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Weird, i haven't get any payment.


Its been more than a week for me, but I guess it depends when you meet the minimum amount.
My guess is I just mist the window, I'm using external wallet. 
Also double check the bitcoin address you have entered in NiceHash.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 12, 2017)

silkstone said:


> Click the circled link and it'll tell you when you can expect a payout.



Got it, it says 2017-06-13 11:59 

That is tomorrow.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 12, 2017)

r9 said:


> I was hoping for that.
> What is a difference between 3gb and and 6gb in MH/s having that extra shaders.



I need to test a 1060 6GB. I don't have one of those in my stack. If I had to guess based off the profitability calculator 2mh/s.



silkstone said:


> When running nicehash standalone miner (the same one that comes bundled with the nicehash GUI) I get around 400 H/s, but when running ZEC miner I'm getting 500 H/s. I might have had it configured wrong, but I followed the instructions on the authors page.



I assume this is on your 1080? I am getting 420-440sols/s on my 1070's which is in line from the command line stuff I see on youtube.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 12, 2017)

I don't know if that could help


----------



## r9 (Jun 12, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I need to test a 1060 6GB. I don't have one of those in my stack. If I had to guess based off the profitability calculator 2mh/s.
> 
> 
> 
> I assume this is on your 1080? I am getting 420-440sols/s on my 1070's which is in line from the command line stuff I see on youtube.


 Yeah, has 11% more shaders I just didn't know if it would scale linear.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 12, 2017)

r9 said:


> Yeah, has 11% more shaders I just didn't know if it would scale linear.



I am at 22mh/s with my cards running 2000mhz core and 4600 memory. They started at 18mh/s stock I imagine out if the box the 6gb matches nicehashes numbers for 20mh/s and overclocked they'll do 23-24


----------



## aGeoM (Jun 12, 2017)

Hi
First I want to say thanks to cdwall for this.
I have been reading this thread, and I decided to try, I'm running an RX480@RX580, my question is, am I runnig at normal rates for NiceHash? Sorry to ask but it's my first time on this.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 12, 2017)

That is a good rate and no problem.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 12, 2017)

no point mining at this values, it is just a waste of Electricity = waste of money = no profits


----------



## aGeoM (Jun 12, 2017)

I set my wallet at coinbase as you, is it trusty system? I gave to them my personal info (lol), should be asked before, but I went on the hip. I'm using NiceHash Viewer and Coinbasa APP for mobil phone, is there any better, here I can control the PC?


----------



## FireFox (Jun 12, 2017)

aGeoM said:


> I set my wallet at coinbase as you, is it trusty system? I gave to them my personal info (lol), should be asked before, but I went on the hip. I'm using NiceHash Viewer and Coinbasa APP for mobil phone, is there any better, here I can control the PC?



@cdawall suggested my coinbase, he has a lot of experience about mining so i trust, yesterday i asked him the same thing about given them my personal info and he said that it was ok, i use NiceHash Viewer too.


----------



## aGeoM (Jun 12, 2017)

Thanks.

So, I have all set and running.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 12, 2017)

aGeoM said:


> Thanks.
> 
> So, I have all set and running.


Good luck.


----------



## Duality92 (Jun 12, 2017)

I've been looking for answers for quite a while not, but have no found any.

Where is the computational power of the hardware used to mine going? What is it used for? Someone has to be benefiting of this?


----------



## silentbogo (Jun 12, 2017)

Duality92 said:


> Where is the computational power of the hardware used to mine going? What is it used for? Someone has to be benefiting of this?


Could be anything from sustaining the actual digital money system,  to generating SHA-1 collision attack tables for Chinese hackers or Google 
http://thehackernews.com/2017/02/sha1-collision-attack.html


----------



## Divide Overflow (Jun 13, 2017)

Anyone else on Nicehash mining Ethereum notice a constantly adjusting DAG epoch?
I'm seeing it stop to switch values back and forth every minute or two.  The delay is eating up productive crunch time!


----------



## silkstone (Jun 13, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> no point mining at this values, it is just a waste of Electricity = waste of money = no profits
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is that sarcasm?


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 13, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> no point mining at this values, it is just a waste of Electricity = waste of money = no profits
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Its worth it to me. And I still have 5 more at home, not turned on,  since I cant control them and I tripped the breakers a few days after I left. I am building 8 in my friends garage atm with 30amp breakers x3 for 8 rigs and maybe some future expansion.

The up and down of the reported hash rate, blue line, is some machines coming on line and offline today.


----------



## Readlight (Jun 13, 2017)

How you get out your unpaid balance to MyEtherWallet?


----------



## krusha03 (Jun 13, 2017)

Hey guys have you considered mining some other coins except ETH / ZCASH? For me Nicehas doesn't detect my GPu but I am using Claymore and what I notice is when I mine ETH i get 12-13MH/s but if I mine EXP for example I get 19-20MH/s. Does this have to do with the difficulty difference of the two coins? I thought the MH/s as a metric should be constant around the different Ethash type coins.

Also mining EXP i get gross like $4.15 daily vs $3 daily for ETH


----------



## FireFox (Jun 13, 2017)

silkstone said:


> Is that sarcasm?



I didn't mean it in a bad way, i just thought that the value was too low to mine.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 13, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> I didn't mean it in a bad way, i just thought that the value was too low to mine.



Mining has rarely been more profitable. Even with a higher electricity cost. Put your hashrate and electricity costs in here and see what it gives you.



krusha03 said:


> Hey guys have you considered mining some other coins except ETH / ZCASH? For me Nicehas doesn't detect my GPu but I am using Claymore and what I notice is when I mine ETH i get 12-13MH/s but if I mine EXP for example I get 19-20MH/s. Does this have to do with the difficulty difference of the two coins? I thought the MH/s as a metric should be constant around the different Ethash type coins.
> 
> Also mining EXP i get gross like $4.15 daily vs $3 daily for ETH



$3 a day cpu mining? What coin? the most I've ever gotten on cpu was around $0.5 a day and it's not worth mining for the electricity cost.

I actually just mine ZCash at the moment. ETH is only giving me 23 MH/s on my 1080. I have been cashing out and buying other coins though. I'll just buy a basket of different stuff and try to wait for one of them to increase in value.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 13, 2017)

silkstone said:


> Mining has rarely been more profitable. Even with a higher electricity cost. Put your hashrate and electricity costs in here and see what it gives you.



That is $ not €

After how long i see the payment in my Wallet


----------



## krusha03 (Jun 13, 2017)

silkstone said:


> Mining has rarely been more profitable. Even with a higher electricity cost. Put your hashrate and electricity costs in here and see what it gives you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


GPU mining with a 7950 @1000 core / 1250mem. I was saying nicehash doesn't work for me so i use claymore for gpu mining


----------



## Duality92 (Jun 13, 2017)

silentbogo said:


> Could be anything from sustaining the actual digital money system,  to generating SHA-1 collision attack tables for Chinese hackers or Google
> http://thehackernews.com/2017/02/sha1-collision-attack.html



But that seems pointless (the first one). As far as the others go, I wonder lol


----------



## silkstone (Jun 13, 2017)

krusha03 said:


> GPU mining with a 7950 @1000 core / 1250mem. I was saying nicehash doesn't work for me so i use claymore for gpu mining



Ah right, sorry, I mis-understood.

That's the same for my htpc. Nicehash will work, but it only gives my 9870 $0.50 a day where claymore gives over $2 a day


----------



## Duality92 (Jun 13, 2017)

How much should I expect if I mine with a 290X 24/7?


----------



## FireFox (Jun 13, 2017)

@silkstone do you know coinbase and Blockchain?


----------



## r9 (Jun 13, 2017)

cdawall said:


> That is a good rate and no problem.


What is the best thing to mine with and MH/s for gtx 979 ?


----------



## silkstone (Jun 13, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> @silkstone do you know coinbase and Blockchain?



Coinbase doesn't support my country, though I've heard good things about it.

I'm using bitfinex at the moment, but they aren't a trading floor i'd keep any coins in for too long. There is talk of them not recovering from a huge loss they had. Polinex is supposed to be good, but It's quite complicated and I haven't had the time to try learning their system.

If you want to switch between currencies, I'd recommend shapeshift.io to start. It's very easy and reliable.


----------



## notb (Jun 13, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> I didn't mean it in a bad way, i just thought that the value was too low to mine.


Well... it's still profitable unless you'll getting your electricity from something like potato batteries. 

I'm ordering a GTX1060 today... silly prices at the moment. I'll mine just to compensate buying in the worst time ever...


----------



## cdawall (Jun 13, 2017)

krusha03 said:


> GPU mining with a 7950 @1000 core / 1250mem. I was saying nicehash doesn't work for me so i use claymore for gpu mining



Curious I had issues where it picked stupid algorithms with a 7870/7950, but you can force it to use miners that make money. I am running them in equihash without issues. 



silkstone said:


> Ah right, sorry, I mis-understood.
> 
> That's the same for my htpc. Nicehash will work, but it only gives my 9870 $0.50 a day where claymore gives over $2 a day



Yes you have to force the algorithm... 



r9 said:


> What is the best thing to mine with and MH/s for gtx 979 ?



Equihash gives 290 sols/s, Ethereum gives 22mh/s at stock.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 13, 2017)

Readlight said:


> How you get out your unpaid balance to MyEtherWallet?


I dont use myetherwallet anymore since I lost 4 coins in there. I send my coins directly to Coinbase wallet.


----------



## Leothelesser (Jun 13, 2017)

Is it mining that has taken all the stock of RX 580/570?

In Australia PC Case Gear and Umart have none and Newegg is light.

What number of AMD cards has been sold to empty the shelves?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 13, 2017)

Leothelesser said:


> Is it mining that has taken all the stock of RX 580/570?
> 
> In Australia PC Case Gear and Umart have none and Newegg is light.
> 
> What number of AMD cards has been sold to empty the shelves?



People buy me are placing orders over 500 direct with the manufacturer. That should hint at how many are selling.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 13, 2017)

cdawall said:


> People buy me are placing orders over 500 direct with the manufacturer. That should hint at how many are selling.



Damn! There are going to be some good deals to be had on GPUs when the markets crash!


----------



## krusha03 (Jun 13, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Curious I had issues where it picked stupid algorithms with a 7870/7950, but you can force it to use miners that make money. I am running them in equihash without issues.


It seems it only an old version detects my 7950 (1.6.xxx). With the new one only my CPU is detected. Do you mind trying on one of your radeons if mining EXP and ETH will produce the same MH/s? Becuase as I said I am going from 19.5 MH/s on EXP to something like 12.5 on ETH which makes EXP much more profitable even though it is a less known, lower value coin


----------



## FireFox (Jun 13, 2017)

silkstone said:


> Coinbase doesn't support my country, though I've heard good things about it.



I just had some issues with the payment but now it's everything OK.

How do you do that?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 13, 2017)

krusha03 said:


> It seems it only an old version detects my 7950 (1.6.xxx). With the new one only my CPU is detected. Do you mind trying on one of your radeons if mining EXP and ETH will produce the same MH/s? Becuase as I said I am going from 19.5 MH/s on EXP to something like 12.5 on ETH which makes EXP much more profitable even though it is a less known, lower value coin



I will check shortly I just built another box with my old 7950 in it. Now mind you I have flashed to a better performing r9 280 bios.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 13, 2017)

So equihash seems the most profitable on my 7950. I get 13mh/s in Ethereum, gets 290 sols/s with equihash which is 3.70-3.80 a day. It roughly equals my 1060's in equihash lol


----------



## notb (Jun 13, 2017)

silkstone said:


> Damn! There are going to be some good deals to be had on GPUs when the markets crash!


Define a "good deal". Is it really a 6-month-old GPU with a "mileage" of a 4-year-old card used for frequent gaming?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 13, 2017)

notb said:


> Define a "good deal". Is it really a 6-month-old GPU with a "mileage" of a 4-year-old card used for frequent gaming?



I just plopped in my modded 7950 from what 6 years ago?  It works beautifully minus being a bit warm. If the cards aren't run at artifacting speeds their whole life it'll be fine.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 13, 2017)

Plus they do tend to be cooled better than a lot of normal system built cards ,my two main pc gpus are not hitting more than 47° and they have been running days at an overclocked level.
Even my r9 390 is downclocked slightly to keep it at 70°.
Spent ages last night fitting an evga 460x 2win in my main rig ,turned to shit though, the second gpu on it has a faulty cooler attached (i tried reseat and retim a few times) and hits 100 in a minute even downclocked to 500mhz the first was fine so i disabled no2 and cracked on , except it sounded like a large plane landing and I couldn't sleep with that much racket , ive decided i too need a room for this stuff but i gots no room.tut.
It was also a bit shit at hashing but its old , soo a 5850 , what would that do dya reckons.


----------



## krusha03 (Jun 13, 2017)

cdawall said:


> So equihash seems the most profitable on my 7950. I get 13mh/s in Ethereum, gets 290 sols/s with equihash which is 3.70-3.80 a day. It roughly equals my 1060's in equihash lol


Interesting my 7950 does only 250 sols/s. At what clocks is your card running? Did you try mining expanse? I get about 19.5 MH/s on it. With this Zcash and Expanse net the same gross


----------



## cdawall (Jun 13, 2017)

krusha03 said:


> Interesting my 7950 does only 250 sols/s. At what clocks is your card running? Did you try mining expanse? I get about 19.5 MH/s on it. With this Zcash and Expanse net the same gross



My mod BIOS is 1150/1350 1.3v, I have downclocked it due to the case running a bit too hot like that (850/1250 now which is 220sols/s) and when I get them moved to a rack I will bump them back up. I actually had to drop the clocks on the 1060 as well, might have to add another pull through fan on this one. I have not tried expanse yet.

Specs on this box

FX9370@3ghz 1.1v
Crosshair V Formula
4x4GB DDR3 1600
Toshiba Q300 120GB
2x Zotac GTX 1060 3GB
1X Sapphire 7950 3GB Short PCB
Thermaltake TR2 RX-850


----------



## Readlight (Jun 13, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> I dont use myetherwallet anymore since I lost 4 coins in there. I send my coins directly to Coinbase wallet.


Is that mean i will newer get out *0.01770 ETH *Is there any point to use dwarfpool, nanopool, miningpoolhub or suprnova, coinmine.pl How they work? 
Claymore gived me two freazing sreans. i get 11 Mhs
I need to calculate all the expenses then problably mining is not worth it.


----------



## Ithanul (Jun 13, 2017)

silkstone said:


> Damn! There are going to be some good deals to be had on GPUs when the markets crash!



Yep, I love it when the coins rally and when they crash.  On one hand I make money (did it in the last rally with a 7970) and on the other hand I get cheap cards to expand my army of F@H/BOINC cards.    This time, looks to be both AMD and Nvidia cards.  Hehe, can't wait for some cheap RX580s to show up later.  Want one to fiddle with.

Cards can take some serious abuse.  That 7970 is still alive from doing over six month to one year of mining, then 24/7 folding, then boincing.  And, that stinker was on air.  Tanky little card for sure.  Can't complain about trading it off for a motherboard last year.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 13, 2017)

notb said:


> Define a "good deal". Is it really a 6-month-old GPU with a "mileage" of a 4-year-old card used for frequent gaming?



There aren't any mechanical, moving parts and are quite robust. I've had gaming cards die after a year not mining and, like other people say, some cards that have been mining for years are still in good working order. Personally, I'm keeping my 1080 underclocked and at 85% TDP. The temps never go above 65 C. I don't think people running them in farms would want them overclocked too far either as it just makes more work for themselves when the cards go down.




Ithanul said:


> Yep, I love it when the coins rally and when they crash.  On one hand I make money (did it in the last rally with a 7970) and on the other hand I get cheap cards to expand my army of F@H/BOINC cards.



Yes. I could kick myself (gain). I've known about ETH for well over 2  years, but I never bothered even looking into it. I was kind of pissed off at missing the bitcoin surge and decided to totally ignore crypto until now. Big mistake. Just a year ago, when I was running a 7970 xfire system, I could have been making 2 ETH a day! I keep missing the real rallies.


----------



## broken pixel (Jun 14, 2017)

I wish I still had my 8 7950s I sold back in 2013.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 14, 2017)

broken pixel said:


> I wish I still had my 8 7950s I sold back in 2013.



Too bad.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 14, 2017)

broken pixel said:


> I wish I still had my 8 7950s I sold back in 2013.



I'm starting to regret selling my 1060 that I let go to an ex-student for very cheap yesterday.


----------



## Readlight (Jun 14, 2017)

Personally, I'm keeping my 1080 underclocked and at 85% TDP. The temps never go above 65 C. I don't think people running them in farms would want them overclocked too far either as it just makes more work for themselves when the cards go down.

Claymore sometimes goes up to 89 C, recomended for card is 80. Need to increase fan speed.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 14, 2017)

Readlight said:


> Personally, I'm keeping my 1080 underclocked and at 85% TDP. The temps never go above 65 C. I don't think people running them in farms would want them overclocked too far either as it just makes more work for themselves when the cards go down.
> 
> Claymore sometimes goes up to 89 C, recomended for card is 80. Need to increase fan speed.



Yes. I Wouldn't be comfortable keeping any card that hot 24/7. Even my old, HOT HOT HOT 9870XT is kept around 75 C for 24/7 use. I'm in no rush to burn out my hardware when I don't really have the means to replace it right now.


----------



## notb (Jun 14, 2017)

broken pixel said:


> I wish I still had my 8 7950s I sold back in 2013.


Are you sure?
If I were you, I'd wish I sold my 8x 7950s and bought BTC. 


silkstone said:


> There aren't any mechanical, moving parts and are quite robust.


1) Obviously, cooling is mechanical (usually).
Check the MTTF rating for your model (if you can find it), but take it with a grain of salt. Some manufacturers will show over a 1M hours here, which is just pure rubbish.
MSI rates their Core Frozr (CPU cooler, possibly similar to Twin Frozr in MSI Gaming GPUs) at 150 000 hours... at 25*C. This will drop severely when working at constant ~70*C.
2) Electric parts wear out as well and once again: costant ~70*C will not help.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 14, 2017)

notb said:


> Are you sure?
> If I were you, I'd wish I sold my 8x 7950s and bought BTC.
> 
> 1) Obviously, cooling is mechanical (usually).
> ...



Yes, the fans will die sooner, but I don't have much luck with fans anyway. My 9870 fan died in less than 2 years and I have a cupboard full of old broken case/cpu fans. 

It is a bit of a gamble. I am hoping the either mining will stay profitable for long enough, or prices will rise high enough, for me to at least make the money back on the GPU. I'm not worried about resale value too much as I'll likely just cycle it through computers. I wouldn't really worry about buying a ex-mining gpu either, assuming it was still in warranty and the price was right.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 14, 2017)

How much would that card make per day

Joke


----------



## silkstone (Jun 14, 2017)

@cdawall Do you encounter any more problems in you AMD/Nvidia mixed rigs? I am thinking about putting my 7870 in with my 1080, but I will be away from home for a month and so crashes will be quite hard to deal with.

I do have a VPN set up to my network for remote admin and I have my bios set to turn the computer on at a certain time (in case of power cuts). But any fatal errors would mean a month with no mining.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 14, 2017)

silkstone said:


> @cdawall Do you encounter any more problems in you AMD/Nvidia mixed rigs?



@cdawall said in post #156



cdawall said:


> Mixed is fine. One of my best miners is a 980ti, 1060 and 1070 in one box. Uo until last night it had a 290 as well.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 14, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> @cdawall said in post #156



Thanks. Yeah, I know that they will work together fine. I'm just double checking that there are no issues with disconnects, etc.

I think I will just move my 7870 over tonight and check for the next 3 days.


----------



## Readlight (Jun 14, 2017)

In my country i think i can get only back 20-40 euro what is spent afterwards for electricity whit one rx460 11,8 Mh.s if i mine ETH all month in a day.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 14, 2017)

Readlight said:


> In my country i think i can get only back 20-40 euro what is spent afterwards for electricity whit one rx460 11,8 Mh.s if i mine ETH all month in a day.


What country do you live in and what is the power cost there. And those rx460 and rx560 are really bad cards to mine with.


----------



## Readlight (Jun 14, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> What country do you live in and what is the power cost there. And those rx460 and rx560 are really bad cards to mine with.


107.37 KWh is 21.89 EUR one mor 145.00 kWh 25.29 EUR Latvija
They also no good for gaming not much games to play especialy whit old cpu.


----------



## hat (Jun 15, 2017)

Looks like I can get a whopping 50 cents per day with my 660 Ti...

I guess RX580 would be nice to have?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 15, 2017)

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/58034/nvidia-crypto-mining-tuned-gpus-monster-perf/index.html

60MH/s in ethereum with a 1080...wonder what they did to "tune" it. I am hoping it is a driver thing that I can push into my cards.


----------



## Ithanul (Jun 15, 2017)

Holy...darn that is nuts.

Though, I wonder.  Can those cards fold or boinc?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 15, 2017)

Ithanul said:


> Holy...darn that is nuts.
> 
> Though, I wonder.  Can those cards fold or boinc?



I really cannot imagine that they would perform worse in those apps.


----------



## Ithanul (Jun 15, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I really cannot imagine that they would perform worse in those apps.


Hmmmm, I going to keep an eye on these.  Hehe, I can see some very cheap cards later on.    With no video output, I can see these going for super cheap later when peeps try selling them off.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 15, 2017)

Ithanul said:


> Hmmmm, I going to keep an eye on these.  Hehe, I can see some very cheap cards later on.    With no video output, I can see these going for super cheap later when peeps try selling them off.



I might have to buy some if they really are cheap. We will see.


----------



## Divide Overflow (Jun 15, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I might have to buy some if they really are cheap. We will see.


You really expect these cards to remain in the "cheap" price range?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 15, 2017)

Divide Overflow said:


> You really expect these cards to remain in the "cheap" price range?



If they go the route that I am hoping I will get them at cost.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 15, 2017)

hat said:


> Looks like I can get a whopping 50 cents per day with my 660 Ti...
> 
> I guess RX580 would be nice to have?



You might want to try just the ZEC algorithm, Cuda usually does better on that than when mining ETH



cdawall said:


> I might have to buy some if they really are cheap. We will see.



I'm more interested in seeing whether they keep their 3 year warranty.


----------



## notb (Jun 15, 2017)

Has anyone seen a comparison of 1060 6GB and 1060 6GB 9Gbps (i.e. the latest DDR upgrade)?
Mining should from faster memory after all.


----------



## dorsetknob (Jun 15, 2017)

silkstone said:


> I'm more interested in seeing whether they keep their 3 year warranty.



IF THEY SELL THESE GIMPED CARDS IN THE EU/UK THEN THEY HAVE TO HAVE 2 YEAR WARRANTY minimum

Not this supposed 90 Day warranty crap Otherwise they fall foul of Consumer protection Law


----------



## FireFox (Jun 15, 2017)

Is it still worth to continue mining?

Two days in a row and it is not getting better.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 15, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Is it still worth to continue mining?
> 
> Two days in a row and it is not getting better.
> 
> ...



It is for me. Based on 1x 1080 and 1x 7870





Though I'm not going to sell the coins, the market will go down and up again. It will encounter crashes and peaks.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 15, 2017)

silkstone said:


> It is for me. Based on 1x 1080 and 1x 7870
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I bought a few coins now they are cheap.


----------



## dorsetknob (Jun 15, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> I bought a few coins now they are cheap.



Thought the Idea was to mine them not buy them


----------



## silkstone (Jun 15, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> I bought a few coins now they are cheap.



Set a plan to keep them until 2020 and I think you'll be set. Don't panic sell if the price crashes!


----------



## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Jun 15, 2017)

Excuse my ignorance but, what actual constructive work is being done by mining? I tried googling but i am none the wiser.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 15, 2017)

dorsetknob said:


> Thought the Idea was to mine them not buy them



Agree, but the price was 2€ per coin so it wasn't a bad deal at all



silkstone said:


> until 2020



I cant just keep all of them because Electricity bill must be paid.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 15, 2017)

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> what actual constructive work is being done by mining?


----------



## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Jun 15, 2017)

Ok

so what maths problems are being solved, why and for who?


----------



## FireFox (Jun 15, 2017)

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> so what maths problems are being solved, why and for who?



Honestly i never care about it and i don't wanna even know as far as i get paid for my GPUs work.


maybe hour GPUs are been used for the Third World War and we don't even know it


----------



## silkstone (Jun 15, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Agree, but the price was 2€ per coin so it wasn't a bad deal at all
> 
> I cant just keep all of them because Electricity bill must be paid.



What coin?


----------



## FireFox (Jun 15, 2017)

silkstone said:


> What coin?



Bitcoin.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 15, 2017)

2 Euros for 1 bitcoin? the going rate is around the $2500 mark!


----------



## FireFox (Jun 15, 2017)

silkstone said:


> 2 Euros for 1 bitcoin? the going rate is around the $2500 mark!



Last night 1 bitcoin costed 2€ that is why i bought a few.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 15, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Last night 1 bitcoin costed 2€ that is why i bought a few.



Please explain more. How on earth did you get hold of bitcoins for 2 euros each? do you mean 2000 euros?


----------



## FireFox (Jun 15, 2017)

silkstone said:


> Please explain more. How on earth did you get hold of bitcoins for 2 euros each? do you mean 2000 euros?



Maybe i am mistaken, how much cost 1 Bitcoin?


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Jun 15, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Maybe i am mistaken, how much cost 1 Bitcoin?


I think around 2500$


----------



## FireFox (Jun 15, 2017)

That explain everything, i was mistaken.

I have thought that was 9 bitcoins = 20€


----------



## silkstone (Jun 15, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> That explain everything, i was mistaken.
> 
> I have thought that was 9 bitcoins = 20€
> 
> View attachment 89084



You had me quite confused  I wouldn't recommend buying/holding any cryptocurrency if you can't afford to do so in the long run or can't risk losing some (at least in the short-term).

It's actually why I never bought any (and didn't make money hand-over-fist) I just never had enough to afford a loss. the same is true now. I can afford to mine and hold in hope of making a little, but I don't have the means nor stomach to invest properly.

There are predictions that give cryptocurrency a 5% share of GDP in 2020, whether those will pan out or not is anyones guess. I do think that some currencies are entrenched and robust enough now to hold value, others show good potential, but at the end of the day, it is still a gamblers game.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 15, 2017)

As soon as the % get better i will transfer what i have to my Euro wallet where i know it wont loose % and if in one month the % is low i just quit.


----------



## Lt_JWS (Jun 15, 2017)

With the amd RX card going for crazy amounts on ebay would it be worth wild to sell my rx470? I'm currently at 27.3Mhs with 80watt usage on gpuz. I would get a 1070gtx to replace it.  From what I can tell it would still be a 50-100 dollar upgrade.


----------



## Black.Raven (Jun 15, 2017)

Experimented with different 7970 bioses as I couldn't change the mV in afterburner. couple bioses, black screens and bluescreens further I stumbled upon the bios mod thread. now the card is at 1081 mV instead of 1291. also from 85 celsius back to 75. quite happy with it.


----------



## FilipM (Jun 15, 2017)

Guys, I search for Ethereum mining and not alot of threads came about.

I wanna get on the bandwagon. At the moment I have CPU, RAM, Storage, I need to buy a MB and the GPU's. I'm looking at either 3 or 4 RX470's. What else will I need? Now I know this may sound stupid but, is there any rough estimate on how much the earnings per month would be?


----------



## toilet pepper (Jun 15, 2017)

So while I was "working",, I "stumbled" upon this page on how to optimize your 1070 for mining. Overclocking the memory and lowering power limit greatly improves efficiency. This is helpful in my case where electricity is around $.20 per kw/h.

http://www.legitreviews.com/geforce...-small-tweaks-great-hashrate-low-power_195451


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 16, 2017)

FilipM said:


> Guys, I search for Ethereum mining and not alot of threads came about.
> 
> I wanna get on the bandwagon. At the moment I have CPU, RAM, Storage, I need to buy a MB and the GPU's. I'm looking at either 3 or 4 RX470's. What else will I need? Now I know this may sound stupid but, is there any rough estimate on how much the earnings per month would be?


If you dont know anything about it I wouldnt get into it or use google search for better results.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 16, 2017)

Yea most of us have been doing that lol


----------



## FilipM (Jun 16, 2017)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ur-complete-guide_us_58b6e1eee4b02f3f81e44e9f

Ok, I've read this, seems pretty straight forward and not overly complicated.


I guess I'm lucky I have $0.08 per KW/h here for electricity


----------



## FireFox (Jun 16, 2017)

toilet pepper said:


> So while I was "working",, I "stumbled" upon this page on how to optimize your 1070 for mining. Overclocking the memory and lowering power limit greatly improves efficiency. This is helpful in my case where electricity is around $.20 per kw/h.
> 
> http://www.legitreviews.com/geforce...-small-tweaks-great-hashrate-low-power_195451



I don't know what i am doing wrong but i cant lower the power limit on my 1060s any tip?


----------



## toilet pepper (Jun 16, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> I don't know what i am doing wrong but i cant lower the power limit on my 1060s any tip?




I used MSi Afterburner to overclock ram and lower power limit.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 16, 2017)

toilet pepper said:


> Afterburner



I tried it but it is locked


----------



## silkstone (Jun 16, 2017)

FilipM said:


> Guys, I search for Ethereum mining and not alot of threads came about.
> 
> I wanna get on the bandwagon. At the moment I have CPU, RAM, Storage, I need to buy a MB and the GPU's. I'm looking at either 3 or 4 RX470's. What else will I need? Now I know this may sound stupid but, is there any rough estimate on how much the earnings per month would be?



Just a PSU to power it all


----------



## FireFox (Jun 16, 2017)

toilet pepper said:


> I used MSi Afterburner to overclock ram and lower power limit.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 16, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> View attachment 89109



Use the other GUI and it has a power limit slider


----------



## FireFox (Jun 16, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Use the other GUI and it has a power limit slider



yeah i solved, i forgot the GUI.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 16, 2017)

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> Excuse my ignorance but, what actual constructive work is being done by mining? I tried googling but i am none the wiser.



Nothing other than running the payment network, except with a few experimental coins.  Etherium can do some simple productive work, and is a step in the right direction.

It's actually just a complex SHA hash break challenge, similar to breaking the password on a treasure chest by guessing randomly until one computer gets it right.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jun 16, 2017)

Hey guys I've been debating on getting into this. Technically investing is no issue, but I just don't know what all needs to be setup with what cards.
Would my current card break even? PowerColor PCS+ AX7870 LE 2GB OC 1100MHz, 1600MHz
$0.11/KW/h I live on a farm so we normally pay $250-$500 in a month anyway.

Also wouldn't it be easier to just buy something like a *BITMAIN AntMiner S9? *Sadly I was on their website not to long ago and they had them in stock, thats what got me interested as I see this.


----------



## notb (Jun 16, 2017)

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> Ok
> 
> so what maths problems are being solved, why and for who?


Problems are being created and solved by a blockchain environment. No added value for now.


R-T-B said:


> Nothing other than running the payment network, except with a few experimental coins.  Etherium can do some simple productive work, and is a step in the right direction.


I just can't see at this point how Ethereum could move from currency mining to something useful. Who will pay for this? What will stop participants from moving to a different activity that has better returns?
Who will organize the mining? I mean: if this becomes a distributed computing platform for rent and a company will want to use it, who will they contact? Who will act as other side of this agreement? Will this be Ethereum Foundation?

Blockchain will be important as a payment service (largest banks in the world are already developing a finance-friendly solution), but as a distributed computing platform? I doubt that.
And from what I've seen lately, it seems the distributed computing idea is slowing down a bit. As such, I think it's a bit to late for Ethereum (and similar projects) to get serious momentum.



Delta6326 said:


> Hey guys I've been debating on getting into this. Technically investing is no issue, but I just don't know what all needs to be setup with what cards.
> Would my current card break even? PowerColor PCS+ AX7870 LE 2GB OC 1100MHz, 1600MHz


Before it dies? Possibly yes, but with tiny profit. Not worth the fuss.


Delta6326 said:


> Also wouldn't it be easier to just buy something like a *BITMAIN AntMiner S9? *Sadly I was on their website not to long ago and they had them in stock, thats what got me interested as I see this.



It would, but what you have to consider is that you're not the only person who thought about this. There's a limited supply of BTC to be mined, so the more people mine, the smaller is the profit.
Essentially, you're a bit to late into the bitcoin race, which can be seen in the estimated ROI - 2-3x longer than for GPUs mining other currencies.
Plus, it will be really difficult to use otherwise or sell your miner when it's too slow to make profit.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 16, 2017)

notb said:


> Problems are being created and solved by a blockchain environment. No added value for now.
> 
> I just can't see at this point how Ethereum could move from currency mining to something useful. Who will pay for this? What will stop participants from moving to a different activity that has better returns?
> Who will organize the mining? I mean: if this becomes a distributed computing platform for rent and a company will want to use it, who will they contact? Who will act as other side of this agreement? Will this be Ethereum Foundation?
> .



My understanding is the smart contract functionality is purely built into the software.  I'd suggest wikipedia for further understanding of how this system works.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 16, 2017)

Anyone want to give me a setup guide to throw this on my LAN system (i5 6400 + 980 (970 in specs, but i have a 980 here as well)?

Tempted to see if its profitable or not with the high electric prices here


----------



## notb (Jun 16, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> My understanding is the smart contract functionality is purely built into the software.  I'd suggest wikipedia for further understanding of how this system works.


Yes, there is "a funcionality".
But a smart contract is not a contract. It's not a legal agreement. For that, it would have to be recognized by legislation.
So we have the technology (more or less), but we don't have the necessary environment for it to be useful.
There are organizations that try to make blockchain useful (like the R3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R3_(company) ), but even if they find a solution, it'll be years before it is implemented.

This looks like a nice article about the matter (I'm at work and can't read the whole thing).
http://www.coindesk.com/making-sense-smart-contracts/


----------



## dorsetknob (Jun 16, 2017)

Mussels said:


> Tempted to see if its profitable or not with the high electric prices here



Not got a back yard off grid Solar array set up  for your PC
Surly in sunny Aus with Free Sparky juice powering your Miner  it would be Profitable ???


----------



## Mussels (Jun 16, 2017)

dorsetknob said:


> Not got a back yard off grid Solar array set up  for your PC
> Surly in sunny Aus with Free Sparky juice powering your Miner  it would be Profitable ???



its winter here. i'm thinking electric heater that makes me money, but googling this isnt getting me any simple info on how to set it up - i trust you TPU guys more.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 16, 2017)

Mussels said:


> its winter here. i'm thinking electric heater that makes me money, but googling this isnt getting me any simple info on how to set it up - i trust you TPU guys more.



For simplicity i use Nicehash to mine, it can be downloaded here: https://www.nicehash.com/?p=nhmintro

Nothing to set/tweak just install it go to options run the bench after done all what you have to do is click start and let it mine.


----------



## Black.Raven (Jun 16, 2017)

aI'm also using Nicehash, and I find it easy to use too. Another thing, if you are mining on older cards or cards that come from the factory with a bad thermal pasta appliance, you should reapply it. My MSI R9 390 came out of the factory with a bad appliance and runs 15 celsius cooler after reapplying.  (why didn't I think of that earlier ). My 7970 is a little bit older, it was applied really well on my card. But after time the paste dried up. Its running about 10 celsius cooler now.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 16, 2017)

Black.Raven said:


> and I find it easy to use too



More than easy, i have learned: Nicehash = for lazy people @cdawall knows what i mean , btw, Nicehash+Blockchain+Coinbase makes everything easy


----------



## Mussels (Jun 16, 2017)

How does the payment/digital wallet side of things go?

How often are you paid, how hard is it to convert to real currency? (paypal?)


----------



## BATOFF3 (Jun 16, 2017)

All payments are fully automatic - as a seller all you have to do is to reach a certain threshold and you'll be then paid automatically.

Sellers are paid on *PPS (Pay Per Share) system* under the next schedule:
- Once per day for NiceHash-wallet unpaid balances, greater than 0.001 BTC.
- Once per day for external-wallet unpaid balances, greater than 0.1 BTC.
- Once per week for external-wallet unpaid balances, greater than 0.01 BTC.

Payments for external-wallet balances less than 0.01 BTC are (temporary) suspended due to unsustainable transaction fees. 

Unpaid balances, lower than 0.0001 BTC are considered as leftover amounts and the only option for you to get these amounts paid out is to connect your miner long enough to reach unpaid balance higher than 0.001 BTC (for nicehash wallets) or 0.01 BTC (for external wallets) which will then be processed in full in the next payout process. Please also note that we are periodically discarding amounts, lower than 0.0001 BTC for all long term inactive miners. All balances from all algorithms are aggregated into a single payment.

_All mining payments will be delivered directly into your NiceHash wallet account. However, you should consider high Bitcoin network TX fees when making *withdraws*, therefore we do not recommend you to mine into this address directly if you plan to do frequent withdrawals, because *high Bitcoin network TX fees may consume most of your earnings*. It is however recommended that you mine into this address directly if you plan to spend these Bitcoins for hashing power *Order purchases*_

Ive only been mining for  nearly 2 weeks, so early days for Me. I have BTC going fron NiceHash to my Coinbase wallet. Tho Im still waiting for my first payment, scheduled to be on the 20th June.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 16, 2017)

BATOFF1 said:


> I have BTC going fron NiceHash to my Coinbase wallet.



How do you do that?



BATOFF1 said:


> Tho Im still waiting for my first payment, scheduled to be on the 20th June.



Weird, i only been mining for 8 days and i get my first payment after 5 days and my next scheduled to be on the 20th.


----------



## BATOFF3 (Jun 16, 2017)

Im only using a GTX 970 and i5 2500k and mine when Im not gaming...so roughly about 8hrs a day my machine is mining constantly. Total at the moment is only 0.00394871 BTC.
In NiceHash, where is says "Bitcoin Address' , I put my coinbase wallet.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 16, 2017)

BATOFF1 said:


> In NiceHash, where is says "Bitcoin Address' , I put my coinbase wallet.



Ok, because i had it to Blockchain, if now i add my coinbase will be sent to it instead Blockchain address?


----------



## BATOFF3 (Jun 16, 2017)

Yes


----------



## FireFox (Jun 16, 2017)

BATOFF1 said:


> Yes



one more question, after switching address my old balance on blockchain wont it be affected, will it be paid?


----------



## BATOFF3 (Jun 16, 2017)

As far as I can tell from reading at the HiceHash site and FAQ's , it shouldnt be affected. Any and all unpaid balance will now go to your coinbase wallet.
Your Blockchain balance will remain as it is and your coinbase balance will start from 0 to that wallet.
I did change my wallet a couple of times, and in hindsight I have yet to be paid, and my balance for the new wallet I pointed it to started at 0.
Maybe someone with a lil more knowledge of NiceHash can correct Me if I am understanding it wrong.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 16, 2017)

BATOFF1 said:


> your coinbase balance will start from 0 to that wallet.



That is right, i noticed it after switching address, sorry if i bother you once again but i have one more last question.

I live in EU, in my coinbase i have an Euro Wallet can i add my Euro Wallet to Nicehash to get paid directly in Euro instead get paid in bitcoins?


----------



## 111frodon (Jun 16, 2017)

Anyone using the 7970 for mining could help me? I'm getting only 11 mh/s while it should net over 20. It's now mining equihash at 275 sol, and my r9 290 is doing 400 and 25 mh. Am i missing something here? Using 15.12 for driver.


----------



## BATOFF3 (Jun 16, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> That is right, i noticed it after switching address, sorry if i bother you once again but i have one more last question.
> 
> I live in EU, in my coinbase i have an Euro Wallet can i add my Euro Wallet to Nicehash to get paid directly in Euro instead get paid in bitcoins?



Reading thru NiceHash FAQ's it seems they pay only in bitcoin. You will have to then exchange the bitcoins to Euro via your coinbase account.


----------



## BATOFF3 (Jun 16, 2017)

111frodon said:


> Anyone using the 7970 for mining could help me? I'm getting only 11 mh/s while it should net over 20. It's now mining equihash at 275 sol, and my r9 290 is doing 400 and 25 mh. Am i missing something here? Using 15.12 for driver.



What Miner are you using Knoxx29 ??


----------



## FireFox (Jun 16, 2017)

BATOFF1 said:


> You will have to then exchange



Exchange or sell?



BATOFF1 said:


> What Miner are you using Knoxx29 ??



Nicehash?


----------



## 111frodon (Jun 16, 2017)

BATOFF1 said:


> What Miner are you using Knoxx29 ??


Nicehash

or maybe that was not meant for me to answer...


----------



## BATOFF3 (Jun 16, 2017)

doh yeah that was to 111frodon. lol.
what version of NiceHash ?



Knoxx29 said:


> Exchange or sell?



Exchange.... then most likely sell/deposit to a Bank account .



111frodon said:


> Nicehash
> 
> or maybe that was not meant for me to answer...



The recommended AMD driver version is *15.12* for older generations of AMD GPUs and *16.11.5* for newer generations.

*NOTE*: If you're having issues with mining on newer generation AMD GPUs you should try latest *NON*-ReLive version of AMD drivers, that would be version 16.11.5

Thats all I could find at their website.


----------



## 111frodon (Jun 16, 2017)

BATOFF1 said:


> The recommended AMD driver version is *15.12* for older generations of AMD GPUs and *16.11.5* for newer generations.
> 
> *NOTE*: If you're having issues with mining on newer generation AMD GPUs you should try latest *NON*-ReLive version of AMD drivers, that would be version 16.11.5
> 
> Thats all I could find at their website.



I'd say latest, as i've just started mining last saturday. As i've said, i'm using 15.12 (as recommended when the client starts) for my r9 290/7970 rig. For my rx 480, i cannot say at the moment, as i'm at work, but i'd say the latest available. It seems like it is just affecting my ethereum, as i'm getting 600 sol/s for the first rig and 300 for the rx 480, which appears to be around normal. At least i don't lose anything for the moment. I'm just really curious why nicehash benchmark indicate my 7970 is at 11 mh/s and the r9 290 at 27!


----------



## FireFox (Jun 16, 2017)

BATOFF1 said:


> Exchange.... then most likely sell/deposit to a Bank account .



Thanks for all the answers/info provided.

So, last night i lowered the voltage of the 1060s and the 1080, both 1060s were consuming 115W now they consume just 95W.

does anyone with a 1060 6GB has lowered the voltage and increased the memory clock, if so what would be the minimum voltage for +500 memory?


----------



## EarthDog (Jun 16, 2017)

Every gpu is different, like cpus... try it and see.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 16, 2017)

EarthDog said:


> Every gpu is different, like cpus... try it and see.



I know that but i would like to know around how much it would be safe, right now the voltage is 981 for both card but that's without increasing Memory clock.


----------



## r9 (Jun 16, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Yea most of us have been doing that lol


I've just bought two 1060. Combined they do 45 mh/s. But if you don't move the mouse it drops to 42. I've set the power plan to performance and set freq for mem and gpu in afterburner. Is it something extra that I need to do ?


----------



## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Jun 16, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Nothing other than running the payment network, except with a few experimental coins.  Etherium can do some simple productive work, and is a step in the right direction.
> 
> It's actually just a complex SHA hash break challenge, similar to breaking the password on a treasure chest by guessing randomly until one computer gets it right.




Aaaaaaaah i see.

its a group of unscrupulous people raping the worlds resources for a quick profit.


where do i sign?


----------



## FireFox (Jun 16, 2017)

r9 said:


> Is it something extra that I need to do ?



Yeap, you dont need to set power plan to performance mode.


----------



## r9 (Jun 16, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Yeap, you dont need to set power plan to performance mode.


I did that after I noticed the performance drop.
It was the same on Balanced too.


----------



## Jeager (Jun 16, 2017)

Driver version seems outdated on the different topic but with my R9 290 Tri-X with the 17.5.1

15:10:01:661   ec0   ETH: GPU0 28.111 Mh/s
15:10:04:221   824   GPU0 t=72C fan=39%

Seems OK with -100mV and -15% 

Wondering if I'll try to get another one for 100€


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 16, 2017)

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> Aaaaaaaah i see.
> 
> its a group of unscrupulous people raping the worlds resources for a quick profit.
> 
> ...



I don't know, as I've argued in the past, running a payment network IS a benefit.  But it certainly could use improvement.


----------



## Jeager (Jun 16, 2017)

Guy does the VDDC options on GPUz can be trusted ?
Im around 120/125w with my current settings with the R9


----------



## cdawall (Jun 16, 2017)

r9 said:


> I've just bought two 1060. Combined they do 45 mh/s. But if you don't move the mouse it drops to 42. I've set the power plan to performance and set freq for mem and gpu in afterburner. Is it something extra that I need to do ?



Mine float between 40 and 45 I just assume it is the application


----------



## silkstone (Jun 16, 2017)

I don't suppose anyone knows of any other wallets to use? I'm having worrying issues with Jaxx.
I sent out a small payment this morning and it has basically disappeared. Nothing in the transaction history and the balance has been reduced as the payment was taken.

I have very little faith in cloud/online wallets, but I can't really find how I can store ZCash locally.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 16, 2017)

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> Aaaaaaaah i see.
> 
> its a group of unscrupulous people raping the worlds resources for a quick profit.
> 
> ...



We miners are not the only one who benefits of it, we are taking and giving


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 16, 2017)

silkstone said:


> I don't suppose anyone knows of any other wallets to use? I'm having worrying issues with Jaxx.
> I sent out a small payment this morning and it has basically disappeared. Nothing in the transaction history and the balance has been reduced as the payment was taken.
> 
> I have very little faith in cloud/online wallets, but I can't really find how I can store ZCash locally.


Coinbase seams well founded and supported ive only used it a short time but im happy with it.
It was recommended to me by a few sources including the Op


----------



## FireFox (Jun 16, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Coinbase seams well founded and supported ive only used it a short time but im happy with it.
> It was recommended to me by a few sources including the Op



I didn't recommend Coinbase because if i am not wrong he told me that it doesn't work in his country.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 16, 2017)

> Yes, there is "a funcionality".
> But a smart contract is not a contract. It's not a legal agreement



It's an agreement that you will do the work the rest of the nodes expect you to do.  If you don't do it, no one will accept your claim of currency.

Not sure what more can be expected.


----------



## Mescalamba (Jun 16, 2017)

Hm, its nice that it makes more money than it costs to run, but crucial question is. How much did it initially cost and how long it takes to return investment (if ever).


----------



## Jeager (Jun 16, 2017)

It will cost what you are able to buy. If the price stay the same you can refund a 200$ card in a few weeks


----------



## toilet pepper (Jun 16, 2017)

Mescalamba said:


> Hm, its nice that it makes more money than it costs to run, but crucial question is. How much did it initially cost and how long it takes to return investment (if ever).



I'm using my gaming rig. I didn't account the initial cost as I didnt think I would be mining qhen I bought it. I just leave it mining at home when I'm at work.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 16, 2017)

Mussels said:


> Anyone want to give me a setup guide to throw this on my LAN system (i5 6400 + 980 (970 in specs, but i have a 980 here as well)?
> 
> Tempted to see if its profitable or not with the high electric prices here


I would use nicehash, its very user friendly. You just need a bitcoin wallet.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 16, 2017)

This mining thing is a lot of fun, i have never tweaked a card before like i have been doing lately with these poor 1060s.

My last settings: GPUs voltage 900 - Memory clock +625 - max power consumption 95W both card - temp GPU 2 68c - temp GPU 3  62c

DaggerHashimoto stock cards 40.26 MH/s - tweaked cards 44.66 MH/s  max 44.97 MH/s

Equihash stock cards 563.38 Sol/s - tweaked card 580 Sol/s+

I wont be touching the cards till they blow up well i hope so


----------



## lemkeant (Jun 16, 2017)

silkstone said:


> I don't suppose anyone knows of any other wallets to use? I'm having worrying issues with Jaxx.
> I sent out a small payment this morning and it has basically disappeared. Nothing in the transaction history and the balance has been reduced as the payment was taken.
> 
> I have very little faith in cloud/online wallets, but I can't really find how I can store ZCash locally.



Coinomi is my personal favorite. They're developing a desktop version, but they do have a mobile version that supports quite a few different altcoins and bitcoin


----------



## notb (Jun 16, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> I don't know, as I've argued in the past, running a payment network IS a benefit.  But it certainly could use improvement.


But a blockchain could be set up by an organization (e.g. group of banks - something that's due to happen). No worldwide hashing would be needed, no ruining of the GPU market etc.
We're not talking about the benefits of a blockchain as such - these are fairly obvious. The issue is in the distributed "mining" phenomenon.


R-T-B said:


> It's an agreement that you will do the work the rest of the nodes expect you to do.  If you don't do it, no one will accept your claim of currency.
> Not sure what more can be expected.


I'm not sure whether I understand what you've said here, so this might be an excellent starting point for some legislation. 

But seriously, this is not a contract from a legal standpoint and I don't see how this could be fixed. It's not like you have to dig deeply to find an issue, because a contract is between >=2 particular institutions or persons that can be named. How could this be done in distributed computing without an overseeing entity?

But there are some more specific issues as well. Imagine your country has a trade ban with another one (e.g. US and North Korea). You have no guarantee that you're not cooperating with someone you mustn't.


----------



## Ithanul (Jun 16, 2017)

notb said:


> But a blockchain could be set up by an organization (e.g. group of banks - something that's due to happen). No worldwide hashing would be needed, no ruining of the GPU market etc.
> We're not talking about the benefits of a blockchain as such - these are fairly obvious. The issue is in the distributed "mining" phenomenon.
> 
> I'm not sure whether I understand what you've said here, so this might be an excellent starting point for some legislation.
> ...


Actually I just read about the power companies looking into using a blockchain for their trading.

Here is the link:  https://arstechnica.com/business/20...lockchain-hope-to-provide-economic-solutions/

So, I can see crypto going for a huge rally later on.


----------



## notb (Jun 16, 2017)

Ithanul said:


> Actually I just read about the power companies looking into using a blockchain for their trading.
> 
> Here is the link:  https://arstechnica.com/business/20...lockchain-hope-to-provide-economic-solutions/
> 
> So, I can see crypto going for a huge rally later on.


This is exactly the idea I was talking about. A corporate-based blockchain payment system. All advantages with no drawbacks. No mining, no stupid waste.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 16, 2017)

Ithanul said:


> Here is the link:  https://arstechnica.com/business/20...lockchain-hope-to-provide-economic-solutions/



I liked the editor who wrote the article I sent her an email


----------



## silkstone (Jun 17, 2017)

A quick warning about using Jaxx.io. 

I have their wallet installed and I am currently unable to make any transactions. I have about $60 locked up in there and I am unable to get it out.

I tried making a transfer of 0.02 ZEC to my trading account the other day and everything appeared to have gone through fine until the ZEC didn't show up. The amount was deducted from my wallet address, but it's been 48hrs and there's zero sign of it in the block chain or anywhere else!

Now, when trying to make any transfers, I get confirmation, but as soon as I reload the walled, my balance returns to normal effectively locking all my funds.

I've moved over to Cryptonator to see if that is any better, but I'd really like a windows GUI wallet. There are non to be found 

I've never trusted any online currency holding/trading services with my money since loosing all my BTC back in the day, but it appears with ZEC, there aren't any other options


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 17, 2017)

silkstone said:


> A quick warning about using Jaxx.io.
> 
> I have their wallet installed and I am currently unable to make any transactions. I have about $60 locked up in there and I am unable to get it out.
> 
> ...


maybe mine another coin and have it transfer directly to any exchange wallet.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 17, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> maybe mine another coin and have it transfer directly to any exchange wallet.



I've moved wallets now, but there is still the question of the money locked up in Jaxx that cannot be transferred as well as the missing transaction and ZEC


----------



## FireFox (Jun 17, 2017)

I have bought this:


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 17, 2017)

silkstone said:


> I've moved wallets now, but there is still the question of the money locked up in Jaxx that cannot be transferred as well as the missing transaction and ZEC


You wont get that money or coins, I had 4 ether coins missing that was transferred somewhere else from my wallet on myetherwallet. I know transfer directly to coinbase. These coin transfers cant be traced.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 17, 2017)

I have a question, can i use just one block of Ram and it's enough 4GB?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 17, 2017)

Smoked a line if outlets in the garage. Will have to look into them further when I get home


----------



## silkstone (Jun 17, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> You wont get that money or coins, I had 4 ether coins missing that was transferred somewhere else from my wallet on myetherwallet. I know transfer directly to coinbase. These coin transfers cant be traced.



I'm hoping it was just dropped from the blockchain (whatever that means) apparently, it takes 72 hrs. After that, there is not much hope.

I've moved to a different online wallet service. There seems to be no local ZEC wallets that work; I found a Java one, but it gives me errors.

I'll likely try to split my wallet across accounts in order to mitigate losses from any single provider.



cdawall said:


> Smoked a line if outlets in the garage. Will have to look into them further when I get home



If you're using that much power, it might be worthwhile assembling your own extension cables with thicker wiring.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 17, 2017)

notb said:


> No mining, no stupid waste.



I know what you mean, but I just want to state there really can't be a blockchain without some sort of mining.



cdawall said:


> Smoked a line if outlets in the garage. Will have to look into them further when I get home



Just be a pro and go full 240V.


----------



## notb (Jun 17, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> I know what you mean, but I just want to state there really can't be a blockchain without some sort of mining.


What you mean is: some hashing is necessary to create a supply of cryptocurrency. That is true, but it's all a matter of initial calibration of the system.
Think about Bitcoin, with it's 21 million unit limit. The way it is programmed, it'll take another few years of mining on huge number of machines.
It's made this way because creators wanted the mining to take many years.

But in a controlled environment (e.g. if created by banks) a similar "bitcoin" could be limited to 1 million units. The bank itself could do the hashing and it would take months, not years.
Then a single unit could be given a fixed value and you have your payment service ready to go.

This gives you an equally good cryptocurrency for instant online payments, but without many of issues: no wasting energy on mining, no implication on hardware prices, no currency risk etc.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 17, 2017)

notb said:


> What you mean is: some hashing is necessary to create a supply of cryptocurrency. That is true, but it's all a matter of initial calibration of the system.
> Think about Bitcoin, with it's 21 million unit limit. The way it is programmed, it'll take another few years of mining on huge number of machines.
> It's made this way because creators wanted the mining to take many years.
> 
> ...



You also can't have transactions without hashing ongoing.

Hashing is mining, by the way.


----------



## hat (Jun 17, 2017)

Wow, RX580 and 570 sold out. I guess people have been grubbing them up.

I started mining on my CPU to throw some extra grunt at it, but it's only using 50%. Why? Also, it seems I can't choose to stop just one miner. It's all or nothing. I'd mine on my CPU while stopping my GPU so I could still play games...


----------



## notb (Jun 17, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> You also can't have transactions without hashing ongoing.


Yes, but I don't have to do the hashing, nor is the distributed mining necessary - it could be done by a server.
Again: we need so many miners and it takes so much time and energy because that's how current ("free") cryptocurrencies have been designed.
In a controlled environment (a cryptocurrency created by banks or other institutions - like in the energy trade example) this could be optimized, take way less time and energy. You don't need complicated algorithms if you control the wallet servers (the currency itself).




hat said:


> Wow, RX580 and 570 sold out. I guess people have been grubbing them up.
> 
> I started mining on my CPU to throw some extra grunt at it, but it's only using 50%. Why? Also, it seems I can't choose to stop just one miner. It's all or nothing. I'd mine on my CPU while stopping my GPU so I could still play games...


I doubt you're getting any profit from these CPUs. You should check this.
If your mining software doesn't let you choose the number of threads it runs, you can always create a VM for mining.


----------



## hat (Jun 17, 2017)

notb said:


> Yes, but I don't have to do the hashing, nor is the distributed mining necessary - it could be done by a server.
> Again: we need so many miners and it takes so much time and energy because that's how current ("free") cryptocurrencies have been designed.
> In a controlled environment (a cryptocurrency created by banks or other institutions - like in the energy trade example) this could be optimized, take way less time and energy. You don't need complicated algorithms if you control the wallet servers (the currency itself).



I thought the whole point was to create a currency that wasn't controlled by banks and/or governments?


----------



## notb (Jun 17, 2017)

hat said:


> I thought the whole point was to create a currency that wasn't controlled by banks and/or governments?


You don't need blockchain to do that. You can make it yourself using paper and pencil...

The idea behind blockchain is to create a fast, secure payment method with acceptable confirmation and auditing properties.
Bitcoin is fast, because it doesn't need complicated transfer confirmation procedure between servers - it holds the whole information needed.
You can use this concept in any kind of trading environment.

E.g. a blockchain system could be used for very fast transfers between banks - even in different countries. This would be a huge leap forward from the technology we have today. Mind you, there are of course other solutions to this problem, so it's not like future of finance is definitely blockchain-based.


----------



## Norton (Jun 17, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Smoked a line if outlets in the garage. Will have to look into them further when I get home


Need to get some 10 or 12 gauge extension cords, shorten cable lengths, and/or upgrade to a larger gauge wiring in the walls


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 17, 2017)

notb said:


> You don't need blockchain to do that. You can make it yourself using paper and pencil...



And who controls the issuing of currency?

Therein the blockchain and peer to peer nature is useful.  It is a mutually agreed upon set of rules.  Anyone tries to change them, the majority rejects it as they can sense the math doesn't add up.  Try doing that with pencil and paper.

One of the chief benefits of cryptocurrencies is their decentralized nature, centralizing them to preserve resources is a huge mistake IMO.


----------



## notb (Jun 17, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> And who controls the issuing of currency?


I do, obviously.
By definition a currency can be anything that represents a value to a group, if this value is not based on it's actual usability as a material. So e.g. a USD bill has a larger value than a napkin or energy you could get by burning it.

I can take a piece of paper and write "I, xxx, will exchange this for a ton of gold". If I offer you that for your Ryzen rig, it's your choice whether you actually find it as valuable. Maybe I don't want to give you the gold? Maybe I don't have it? Maybe I have it, but it's lying on my balcony, so it's matter of hours before it's stolen.
Thing is though: while the piece of paper becomes a currency, it's not a valid document protected by law. You won't have any basis to report me to the authorities or sue me, if I don't pay.



R-T-B said:


> Therein the blockchain and peer to peer nature is useful.  It is a mutually agreed upon set of rules.  Anyone tries to change them, the majority rejects it as they can sense the math doesn't add up.  Try doing that with pencil and paper.


Any currency is built upon a set of rules. However, a stare currency is (more or less) protected when the rules change or when an entity decides not to abide. It's also fairly stable because of both the economical fundaments and the work of national banks.

The issue with Bitcoin is that it's very difficult to evaluate and very prone to market fluctuations.
Remember it's not money! It's a payment system... and it would have to be priced as one.
Is the ~$2600 realistic? Maybe, I never tried to evaluate this (I'm sure there are many publications available).


----------



## cdawall (Jun 17, 2017)

silkstone said:


> If you're using that much power, it might be worthwhile assembling your own extension cables with thicker wiring.



They were 15A rated surge protectors pulling 8-10A max split between two different wall outlets. I think the PSU I just pulled toasted under load and smoked it. I have that system back up and running with a new board that can do more cards.



R-T-B said:


> Just be a pro and go full 240V.



I have it in the garage on a dual pole twin 30A I might actually do that. It was already a thought, just one that requires me wiring things. Since I have to do an outlet already I might pull 240V and just run off of that.



Norton said:


> Need to get some 10 or 12 gauge extension cords, shorten cable lengths, and/or upgrade to a larger gauge wiring in the walls



The cords were already rated fine. I really think it was just a bad PSU.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 18, 2017)

notb said:


> I do, obviously.



And if I make more behind your back? 



> Is the ~$2600 realistic? Maybe, I never tried to evaluate this (I'm sure there are many publications available).



It should be around the value of some rare metal IIRC.  It's designed to mimic a rare mineral such as gold or platinum.  No idea what unit they used in that evaluation though.


----------



## notb (Jun 18, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> And if I make more behind your back?


Well that's the main thing about making money: you have to make it hard to copy.
That's because physical money is anonymous. I can give someone a note and no one else has to know about this transaction.
If we decide to sacrifice this property, it gets much easier. E.g. I could require that every transaction is reported to me (but I won't tell anyone else).
I would keep a ledger and as such no physical "note" is needed. It's my job to make this secure and robust, so that people trust this system.
Hey! We've just invented bank accounts. 

But here's the main difference.
State currencies are not competing. When a central bank changes the money supply, it only affects the currency it has issued. Theoretically, the more money there is, the smaller is it's value (printing money etc).
Virtual currencies are competing! So even if the amount of BTC is limited, another currency can arise. This will affect the value of BTC (the total capitalization).




R-T-B said:


> It should be around the value of some rare metal IIRC.  It's designed to mimic a rare mineral such as gold or platinum.  No idea what unit they used in that evaluation though.


Well... wrong! 
Bitcoin's value is not imposed in any way and there is no "they". No one says how much 1 BTC is worth. It's a clean supply and demand mechanism.

Bitcoin is a payment service - that's where the value comes from.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 18, 2017)

notb said:


> Well that's the main thing about making money: you have to make it hard to copy.
> That's because physical money is anonymous. I can give someone a note and no one else has to know about this transaction.
> If we decide to sacrifice this property, it gets much easier. E.g. I could require that every transaction is reported to me (but I won't tell anyone else).
> I would keep a ledger and as such no physical "note" is needed. It's my job to make this secure and robust, so that people trust this system.
> ...



Not wrong.  " They" is its creator, Satoshi Nakamoto (or whoever he was).  He said in his original design doc the unit is designed to mimic a rare metal.

Of course that's not enforced, but you asked what it should be worth and I thought it a worthy piece of trivia.  It's hardly a serious way to evaluate the currency now though.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 18, 2017)

BATOFF1 said:


> Exchange.... then most likely sell/deposit to a Bank account .



It really bothers me that when i get paid i have to transfer from my Coinbase Wallet to my Coinbase Euro Wallet and from my Euro Wallet to my Bank account, that said i have to pay fees two times

I have thought that if i put my Euro Wallet address in Nicehash it will do the conversion automatically to Euro and it will pay me whatever i have earned, but i don't really know if that works.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 18, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> It really bothers me that when i get paid i have to transfer from my Coinbase Wallet to my Coinbase Euro Wallet and from my Euro Wallet to my Bank account, that said i have to pay fees two times
> 
> I have thought that if i put my Euro Wallet address in Nicehash it will do the conversion automatically to Euro and it will pay me whatever i have earned, but i don't really know if that works.



I'm pretty sure that you can set nicehash to payout in Euros. I've no idea how to do that myself, but I've seen screenshots of nicehash reporting a daily income in Euros.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 18, 2017)

silkstone said:


> I'm pretty sure that you can set nicehash to payout in Euros.



I bet i just have to set my Euro Wallet's in Nicehash, i will do it after i get paid on 20th.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 18, 2017)

It pays out in bitcoin all changing the thing in nice hash does is show the conversion at current bitcoin to whatever your currency rate is.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 18, 2017)

cdawall said:


> It pays out in bitcoin all changing the thing in nice hash does is show the conversion at current bitcoin to whatever your currency rate is.



So that means that i can set my Euro Wallet's address in Nicehash, is that right?

Edit: you don't have to answer my question.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jun 18, 2017)

I'm thinking of getting a 1080 ti , mining with it so I can get the money back and it will go into my gaming rig.
I setup a coinbase account, but I'm not for sure what address to payout to? It has a few options what do you do?

Also good read here 
http://www.legitreviews.com/silent-ethereum-mining-evga-geforce-gtx-1060-22-mhs_195529


----------



## FireFox (Jun 18, 2017)

Delta6326 said:


> I'm thinking of getting a 1080 ti , mining with it so I can get the money back and it will go into my gaming rig.
> I setup a coinbase account, but I'm not for sure what address to payout to? It has a few options what do you do?
> 
> Also good read here
> http://www.legitreviews.com/silent-ethereum-mining-evga-geforce-gtx-1060-22-mhs_195529



The first one, i have renamed mine.





Post #517


----------



## hat (Jun 18, 2017)

Delta6326 said:


> I'm thinking of getting a 1080 ti , mining with it so I can get the money back and it will go into my gaming rig.
> I setup a coinbase account, but I'm not for sure what address to payout to? It has a few options what do you do?
> 
> Also good read here
> http://www.legitreviews.com/silent-ethereum-mining-evga-geforce-gtx-1060-22-mhs_195529


I hear you. I'd like an RX580 myself for my main rig (Starlifter). After that, I'd use mining profits to get two more, a z170 motherboard, a good power supply and the cheapest Celeron and memory to put in my other rig (Dragonfly). Two RX580 mining constantly and a third off and on in my gaming rig would be worth something. After that maybe use those profits to add an Antminer box... but shit, even getting the first RX580 is a pipe dream.


----------



## notb (Jun 18, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Not wrong.  " They" is its creator, Satoshi Nakamoto (or whoever he was).  He said in his original design doc the unit is designed to mimic a rare metal.


What he said is that the money supply model is designed to mimic a precious metal. That's where we got the term "mining" from.
So there's a hard limit of supply (the amount of it to be extracted) and we mine it, e.g. the total money supply is growing as a result of people's activity.
Furthermore, the speed of mining can adjusts according to the demand.
This is EXACTLY what we're experiencing today. The demand for BTC was growing faster than the supply. The price went up, so more people decided to mine (creating the GPU shortage).

But that has nothing to do with the value of Bitcoin, as while it works like a precious metal, its value isn't connected to one.
Pricing of BTC looks just like pricing of an asset, i.e. how much profit it is expected to make in the future.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 18, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> So that means that i can set my Euro Wallet's address in Nicehash, is that right?
> 
> Edit: you don't have to answer my question.



Lol I take it you got it figured out? 



Delta6326 said:


> I'm thinking of getting a 1080 ti , mining with it so I can get the money back and it will go into my gaming rig.
> I setup a coinbase account, but I'm not for sure what address to payout to? It has a few options what do you do?
> 
> Also good read here
> http://www.legitreviews.com/silent-ethereum-mining-evga-geforce-gtx-1060-22-mhs_195529



How curious my 3gb cards get the exact same. I really expected those cards to do a lot better.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 18, 2017)

I have done a few purchase last night.






CPU: Intel Celeron Prozessor G3900



cdawall said:


> Lol I take it you got it figured out?



After your last answer i took it like a yes


----------



## Delta6326 (Jun 18, 2017)

This might be slightly off topic, does anyone know a nice 1080 ti? Plan on using it for pcars 2 and Forza 7 etc.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 18, 2017)

Delta6326 said:


> This might be slightly off topic, does anyone know a nice 1080 ti? Plan on using it for pcars 2 and Forza 7 etc.



I am the wrong person to answer that because i am an EVGA fanboy


----------



## notb (Jun 18, 2017)

Delta6326 said:


> I'm thinking of getting a 1080 ti , mining with it so I can get the money back and it will go into my gaming rig.
> I setup a coinbase account, but I'm not for sure what address to payout to? It has a few options what do you do?


I was thinking about a 1060 for similar scenario: get money back and then maybe do a bit more. I mean: I looked at all these magic numbers in calculators and clearly a 1060 should earn me a new PC in 2 years tops...
I thought about this for a while and finally decided to drop the idea. I might still mine a bit, but mostly for fun and learning the bitcoin ecosystem a bit more. I'm sure it'll become useful one day.

Basically, the ideal scenario looks great: assuming one mines 24/7, bitcoin price doesn't drop and 1060 remains a competitive GPU for mining.
But looking at this realistically, I'd be mining maybe half a day, sometimes less. And of course this flood of new miners and new cards to be launched (Volta, Vega and mining-optimized models) could make 1060 perform much worse in matter of months.

Still, I'm sure I'd be making some profit, but it's already not that attractive. Even when winter comes in 5 months, and I could run it 80% of the day instead of 50%, I'd still be making maybe $500/year. Don't get me wrong: that's nice money in Poland, but IMO not worth the fuss and time.
When I was a student, I did some FX trading and it was earning me quite a bit more than this mining adventure could. Despite that, I pretty much dropped it after a year of having a normal job (taking anything between 10 and 16 hours a day).
If I wanted to earn additional cash, there's always this option. Or stock. Or tutoring rich kids... All things giving a lot more fun than making my PC a lot hotter and noisier.

Sure, if I had a basement or an off-site location for this, I might invest into a big rig like some did. Make big money quickly - minimizing the risk.
But doing this in my only destop seems to be a poor idea after all. I pass. :-/


----------



## cdawall (Jun 18, 2017)

Delta6326 said:


> This might be slightly off topic, does anyone know a nice 1080 ti? Plan on using it for pcars 2 and Forza 7 etc.



I have both the evga and Asus I like the evga better


----------



## FireFox (Jun 18, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I have both the evga and Asus I like the evga better


----------



## hat (Jun 18, 2017)

Are things like the Antminer series still a thing? If so, why is nobody talking about it here? They seem exponentially more powerful than these GPUs we're playing with. The older Antminer s7 advertises a hash rate around 4.73TH/s. That's many orders of magnitude stronger than an RX580.

Jesus people are taking advantage aren't they? RX480 on ebay for 2x the retail price. When exactly did mining blow up again?


----------



## FireFox (Jun 18, 2017)

hat said:


> The older Antminer s7 advertises a hash rate around 4.73TH/s.



Yeap, the s7 uses 1200W and the s9 uses 1300W, let me continue playing with my 2 x 1060 that use 95W both

Edit:

Bitmain AntMiner S3+ 453GH/s Bitcoin Miner
 Guaranteed 500 GH/s ( when overclocked ) 
 355 Watt and  up to 450 Watt when overclocked.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 18, 2017)

hat said:


> Are things like the Antminer series still a thing? If so, why is nobody talking about it here? They seem exponentially more powerful than these GPUs we're playing with. The older Antminer s7 advertises a hash rate around 4.73TH/s. That's many orders of magnitude stronger than an RX580.
> 
> Jesus people are taking advantage aren't they? RX480 on ebay for 2x the retail price. When exactly did mining blow up again?


Largely because they are not useful on etherium, i think you need the S9 afaik out of stock.


----------



## hat (Jun 18, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Yeap, the s7 uses 1200W and the s9 uses 1300W, let me continue playing with my 2 x 1060 that use 95W both
> 
> Edit:
> 
> ...



Maybe, but think of performance per watt? Your 1060s are probably lacking in that area compared to the Antminer.



theoneandonlymrk said:


> Largely because they are not useful on etherium, i think you need the S9 afaik out of stock.



I keep hearing etherium, but I've yet to understand what it means. I just installed nicehash and fired it up. I'm still supposed to be getting paid in BTC. Are we no longer mining bitcoins, but some other cryptocurrency now?


----------



## notb (Jun 18, 2017)

hat said:


> Are things like the Antminer series still a thing? If so, why is nobody talking about it here? They seem exponentially more powerful than these GPUs we're playing with. The older Antminer s7 advertises a hash rate around 4.73TH/s. That's many orders of magnitude stronger than an RX580.



Specialized miners are created to deal with a particular hashing algorithms.
Bitcoin's algorithm allows to make very efficient, specialized chips - few orders of magnitude faster than GPUs. Mining BTC on anything else than ASIC became pointless a while ago.

Other cryptocurrencies have hashing algorithms that utilize a lot more general computing, hence an ASIC miner would have to use normal CPUs...



hat said:


> I keep hearing etherium, but I've yet to understand what it means. I just installed nicehash and fired it up. I'm still supposed to be getting paid in BTC. Are we no longer mining bitcoins, but some other cryptocurrency now?


You get paid in BTC, because it's the only mainstream cryptocurrency (accepted in stores etc). As such it's the only one with a decently defined value.
Everything else is mostly speculation at this point and very risky. You should mine them (as they can be effectively mined using normal PCs), but you should not hold them in your portfolio.

Generally speaking, all cryptocurrencies are the same - they compete. One gains value, another looses it. As a result it's pretty sensible that the whole group is priced in a single representative - that's BTC.
In other words: it's still just Bitcoin, but now there are more hashing algorithms available (more hardware can be efficiently used).


----------



## FireFox (Jun 18, 2017)

hat said:


> Maybe, but think of performance per watt? Your 1060s are probably lacking in that area compared to the Antminer.



Agree with you.

But to run a 1200W Antminer would cost me 2,627.88€ yearly, how much money would make per year this Antminer to cover the electricity bill?


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 18, 2017)

Delta6326 said:


> I'm thinking of getting a 1080 ti , mining with it so I can get the money back and it will go into my gaming rig.
> I setup a coinbase account, but I'm not for sure what address to payout to? It has a few options what do you do?
> 
> Also good read here
> http://www.legitreviews.com/silent-ethereum-mining-evga-geforce-gtx-1060-22-mhs_195529


Go to tools option and it will have 3 options for wallets address, BTC, etheruem, and litecoin. Pick the BTC wallet option.


----------



## hat (Jun 18, 2017)

notb said:


> Specialized miners are created to deal with a particular hashing algorithms.
> Bitcoin's algorithm allows to make very efficient, specialized chips - few orders of magnitude faster than GPUs. Mining BTC on anything else than ASIC became pointless a while ago.
> 
> Other cryptocurrencies have hashing algorithms that utilize a lot more general computing, hence an ASIC miner would have to use normal CPUs...
> ...



So we're mining a new cryptocurrency, called Ethereum, and getting paid in another cryptocurrency, called Bitcoin? Or do you mean there are many cryptocurrencies, and BTC rules them all, sort of like how most of the EU now uses the Euro rather than each individual nation of the EU using their own currency?



Knoxx29 said:


> Agree with you.
> 
> But to run a 1200W Antminer would cost me 2,627.88€ yearly, how much money would make per year this Antminer to cover the electricity bill?



No idea. This is all very new and confusing to me as well. I guess it depends on the algorithm it runs and what the reward is per hash.  My 660Ti is hitting 527MH/s running the decred algorithm right now, bringing in about 71 cents per day. However, my CPU is hitting a mere 65H/s running CryptoNight, but earning 20 cents per day. There is a very large discrepancy here. If those GPU hashes were worth as much as the CPU hashes, which are done at an astronomically lower rate, I'd be rich already.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 18, 2017)

hat said:


> No idea. This is all very new and confusing to me as well. I guess it depends on the algorithm it runs and what the reward is per hash. My 660Ti is hitting 527MH/s running the decred algorithm right now, bringing in about 71 cents per day. However, my CPU is hitting a mere 65H/s running CryptoNight, but earning 20 cents per day. There is a very large discrepancy here. If those GPU hashes were worth as much as the CPU hashes, which are done at an astronomically lower rate, I'd be rich already.



Lol the CPU and GPU you are running aren't exactly the quickest things on the market. I doubt they even break even for power.


----------



## LightningJR (Jun 18, 2017)

hat said:


> So we're mining a new cryptocurrency, called Ethereum, and getting paid in another cryptocurrency, called Bitcoin? Or do you mean there are many cryptocurrencies, and BTC rules them all, sort of like how most of the EU now uses the Euro rather than each individual nation of the EU using their own currency?
> 
> 
> 
> No idea. This is all very new and confusing to me as well. I guess it depends on the algorithm it runs and what the reward is per hash.  My 660Ti is hitting 527MH/s running the decred algorithm right now, bringing in about 71 cents per day. However, my CPU is hitting a mere 65H/s running CryptoNight, but earning 20 cents per day. There is a very large discrepancy here. If those GPU hashes were worth as much as the CPU hashes, which are done at an astronomically lower rate, I'd be rich already.



My GPU is pulling ~29MH/s and if NiceHash is correct, making ~$5.50USD a day on ETH.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 18, 2017)

hat said:


> So we're mining a new cryptocurrency, called Ethereum, and getting paid in another cryptocurrency, called Bitcoin? Or do you mean there are many cryptocurrencies, and BTC rules them all, sort of like how most of the EU now uses the Euro rather than each individual nation of the EU using their own currency?
> 
> 
> 
> No idea. This is all very new and confusing to me as well. I guess it depends on the algorithm it runs and what the reward is per hash.  My 660Ti is hitting 527MH/s running the decred algorithm right now, bringing in about 71 cents per day. However, my CPU is hitting a mere 65H/s running CryptoNight, but earning 20 cents per day. There is a very large discrepancy here. If those GPU hashes were worth as much as the CPU hashes, which are done at an astronomically lower rate, I'd be rich already.


That is why people use nicehash it pays in an easy format and automatically picks the best thing to mine.
Then pays you once a week ish like paper round but in bitcoin , i made 29£ arseing around with 67£ buying and selling litecoin at the right time.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 18, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> That is why people use nicehash it pays in an easy format and automatically picks the best thing to mine.
> Then pays you once a week ish like paper round but in bitcoin , i made 29£ arseing around with 67£ buying and selling litecoin at the right time.



At his rate he would only be paid monthly. My stuff pays out three times a week, but not in an interval that makes sense.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 18, 2017)

cdawall said:


> At his rate he would only be paid monthly. My stuff pays out three times a week, but not in an interval that makes sense.


Im well chuffed my portfolio rose from £67 to £98 quid but with bitcoin sliding im back to a still in the win £87
As soon as Amazon delivers my order i might get near twice a week


----------



## BATOFF3 (Jun 18, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Agree with you.
> 
> But to run a 1200W Antminer would cost me 2,627.88€ yearly, how much money would make per year this Antminer to cover the electricity bill?




https://www.nicehash.com/index.jsp?p=calc

The Pull down menus list all the hardware... gpu's..... asics... power costs etc.


----------



## hat (Jun 18, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Lol the CPU and GPU you are running aren't exactly the quickest things on the market. I doubt they even break even for power.


I know... I really need a good card to get started. They're sold out everywhere, though.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 18, 2017)

hat said:


> Are things like the Antminer series still a thing? If so, why is nobody talking about it here? They seem exponentially more powerful than these GPUs we're playing with. The older Antminer s7 advertises a hash rate around 4.73TH/s. That's many orders of magnitude stronger than an RX580.
> 
> Jesus people are taking advantage aren't they? RX480 on ebay for 2x the retail price. When exactly did mining blow up again?



According to  *Profitability calculator *


The famous *S7* you were talking about 






Here the* S9*



 




hat said:


> Maybe, but think of performance per watt? *Your 1060s are probably lacking in that area compared to the Antminer.*




And here the *1060s *

Wait i cant forget that sentence: *Your 1060s are probably lacking in that area compared to the Antminer.*






One 1060 does +905.04€ yearly net so x 2 1060s = 1810,08€ ( power cost = 455,42€ yearly, both cards )


Antminer *S9*  +2758.76€ yearly net ( power cost =  3130.98€ )



BATOFF1 said:


> The Pull down menus list all the hardware... gpu's..... asics... power costs etc.



yeap, i know the *Profitability calculator*.


----------



## hat (Jun 18, 2017)

Well... I guess I eat my words! Partially, anyway. If I had an S9 today, it would be nice to have... but a video card would be so much easier to obtain. I even thought about using my credit line at Dell to get one, but their RX580 is sold out too.

I've set up a coinbase account and nicehash should now be dumping any BTC I earn into it.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 18, 2017)

hat said:


> If I had an S9 today, it would be nice to have... but a video card would be so much easier to obtain.



The S9 is easy to obtain you just have to pay EUR 3.300,00


----------



## hat (Jun 18, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> The S9 is easy to obtain you just have to pay EUR 3.300,00


No problem, I'll just have a look in the couch


----------



## FireFox (Jun 19, 2017)

hat said:


> No problem, I'll just have a look in the couch



Btw, a few 1060s/70s/80s will give few good money, at least i can't complain at all of my 1060s and the 1080, i have been mining for 11 days and so far i have got two payments first one €48 and the second one 31€, tomorrow i get another one it should be around 45€+ that's 124€+ in 12 days, and honestly my 1080 haven't been mining full time.


----------



## hat (Jun 19, 2017)

I _could_ get a 1060... but I don't really want that. I want the RX580, it'll do better. They're out of stock everywhere, though. I guess it's a waiting game.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 19, 2017)

hat said:


> Are things like the Antminer series still a thing? If so, why is nobody talking about it here? They seem exponentially more powerful than these GPUs we're playing with. The older Antminer s7 advertises a hash rate around 4.73TH/s. That's many orders of magnitude stronger than an RX580.
> 
> Jesus people are taking advantage aren't they? RX480 on ebay for 2x the retail price. When exactly did mining blow up again?



Over here, even the 1060/1070/1080's are now hard to find at reasonable prices. People are selling 2nd hand for 1.5x retail value or more.

I just sold my 1060 and was very tempted just to put it on Facebook to see what I could get, but I ended up selling it to a friend at a reasonable price. I even through in an old Q9650 system as he was going to build a PC month-by-month as his paycheck came in


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 19, 2017)

I have half of my rx470s on ebay right now, half of them have been paid for the other half where ebay trolls with under 5 feedback.


----------



## hat (Jun 19, 2017)

It's a tough decision. Wait an unknown period of time for what I really want, or jump on right now with something of lesser performance? :/


----------



## cdawall (Jun 19, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> I have half of my rx470s on ebay right now, half of them have been paid for the other half where ebay trolls with under 5 feedback.



It actually isn't just eBay trolls anymore. I sold my stuff to a couple low feedback people without issue. Right now people just want the cards and don't care where it comes from.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 19, 2017)

cdawall said:


> It actually isn't just eBay trolls anymore. I sold my stuff to a couple low feedback people without issue. Right now people just want the cards and don't care where it comes from.


Or price, I have 29 rx570 coming this week, I'm going to sell them all and go all 1060 6gb.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 19, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Or price, I have 29 rx570 coming this week, I'm going to sell them all and go all 1060 6gb.


Even those are getting to be a pain to come buy. I want these mining cards to hit already I have been putting away all my bitcoin money to grab some lol


----------



## silkstone (Jun 19, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Even those are getting to be a pain to come buy. I want these mining cards to hit already I have been putting away all my bitcoin money to grab some lol



I'm seriously considering going for another 1080. The price, new, on amazon.co.uk is under what you pay for them second hand here anyway, so I figure I can always resell one later.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 19, 2017)

On the note of mining cards look what is on the web already... 

https://m.ncix.com/products/sku/141529

And then w1z slipping things in as well

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/b4698/asus-p106-100-mining


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 19, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Even those are getting to be a pain to come buy. I want these mining cards to hit already I have been putting away all my bitcoin money to grab some lol


I had to preorder all of them and wait 3 weeks to get them.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jun 19, 2017)

Looking at getting the Gigabyte 1080ti as W1zz gave it a 9.9, and it has 4 year warranty. I like to keep my stuff for long time... still on a 7870 xt le...

Shouldn't take to long to pay for its self.
https://m.newegg.com/products/N82E16814125953

Edit: also if I get a 1060 or 2 of them can it be in the same system and mining?

Edit: just remembered Vega is coming soon, any ideas on its hashrate?


----------



## notb (Jun 19, 2017)

cdawall said:


> On the note of mining cards look what is on the web already...
> 
> https://m.ncix.com/products/sku/141529
> 
> ...



3-month warranty. Love it.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 19, 2017)

Delta6326 said:


> Edit: also if I get a 1060 or 2 of them can it be in the same system and mining?



As you can see my Gaming Machine and 2 x 1060 for Mining.







Delta6326 said:


> Edit: just remembered Vega is coming soon, any ideas on its hashrate?



Too early to say?


----------



## FireFox (Jun 19, 2017)

hat said:


> I _could_ get a 1060... but I don't really want that. I want the RX580, it'll do better














RX 580 4GB - +864.63€ net yearly ( power cost 341.56€ )

RX 580 8GB - +999.08€ net yearly ( power cost 432.64€ )

1060 6GB - +908.69€ net yearly ( power cost 227.71€ )

As you can see the 1060 gives you a few $/€ more over the RX 580 4GB and you pay 113.85€ less of Electricity yearly, the RX 580 8GB gives you a few $/€ more over the 1060 but cost you 204.93€ more of Electricity yearly, that said with 2 x 1060 you earn a lot of more $/€ than with a single RX 580 8GB and the 2 x 1060 will cost you yearly almost the same or a little less of electricity bill.

Note: the 227.71€ power cost of the 1060 it is if running the card at stock voltages, both of my 1060s are running at 0.9V and consuming just 95W.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 19, 2017)

So I passed a few firsts last night, made my first Bat file , never knew it was so easy and had no reason to try before.
And I got my main listed rig dual mining decred , im upto £10.50 a day on that pc no effect on eth hashrate despite more load and a weather fearing downclock they're still at 30Mhs.
I hadn't ticked the right boxes or ran benches for decred apparently, who knew .


----------



## FireFox (Jun 19, 2017)

I wanted to share this video with all my fellow Miners:


----------



## hat (Jun 19, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Or price, I have 29 rx570 coming this week, I'm going to sell them all and go all 1060 6gb.



At first I wondered why you might do that... but then:



Knoxx29 said:


> snip



I see the difference isn't so big after all. I may as well take the 1060 if I can get it.

I _could_ get a GTX1080, instead. Or would the 1070 be a better buy? Isn't there some problem with the 1080 and the GDDR5x it uses compared to standard GDDR5 on the 1070?


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 19, 2017)

hat said:


> At first I wondered why you might do that... but then:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The 1080 has loser memory timing and much higher price per hash or mining speed. But it really depends if you are picking up a 1080 or 12 1080s for gaming or mining. The 1070 is better on mining speed vs the 1080 per price ratio. But the 1060 has the fastest return on investment (ROI).


----------



## hat (Jun 19, 2017)

I could care less about gaming on these cards. I'm still okay with my 660 ti as far as that's concerned.

Eventually I'm looking at picking up another two cards after this initial endeavor, along with a power supply, and cheap board/ram/cpu for my second computer as my existing board only has one pci-e x16, and the power supply in there can't handle doodoo. After that I can't handle anything more. The lack of electrical power and physical space here won't allow it. I plan on using whatever profits I generate to buy more equipment until I just sit and let it earn for me, so that'll be a wait. Maybe by then those specialized mining cards will be out.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 19, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> The 1080 has loser memory timing and much higher price per hash or mining speed. But it really depends if you are picking up a 1080 or 12 1080s for gaming or mining. The 1070 is better on mining speed vs the 1080 per price ratio. But the 1060 has the fastest return on investment (ROI).



My 1080 earn me more than my 1060s and you don't have to run the 1080 at stock voltages mine is running at 1V +600 memory clock, cost me €1.12c per day if running at 1.6v but i am curious to know how much it costs me running at 1V.



hat said:


> I plan on using whatever profits I generate to buy more equipment until I just sit and let it earn for me,



The same here.

After i get the 1070 i have ordered in one month i will earn enough to replace my 2 x 1060s with 2 x 1070.


----------



## hat (Jun 19, 2017)

Hooooooooold on.

I might buy TWO 1070s. They take one 8-pin power connector right? I got two of those, and two PCI-E x16 in my main rig! I can start off stronger than I expected. More debt but you gotta spend money to make money.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 19, 2017)

hat said:


> They take one 8-pin power connector right? I



Yeap.



hat said:


> More debt but you gotta spend money to make money.


----------



## hat (Jun 19, 2017)

Took the chance.

This is the first and last time I will use any of "my" money on this, however. #1 priority here is making my money back. After that, I can use the earnings to beef up my second system for this while paying down other bills. If things stay like this, I can just imagine 4 cards earning north of $500/month...


----------



## FireFox (Jun 20, 2017)

hat said:


> Took the chance.
> 
> This is the first and last time I will use any of "my" money on this, however. #1 priority here is making my money back. After that, I can use the earnings to beef up my second system for this while paying down other bills.



I have invested 1800€ the rest of the hardware i will buy it with the money i earn.



hat said:


> I can just imagine 4 cards earning north of $500/month...



after you see you make around 500$ per month you will want double it


----------



## hat (Jun 20, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> I have invested 1800€ the rest of the hardware i will buy it with the money i earn.
> 
> 
> 
> after you see you make around 500$ per month you will want double it


 Of course I'll want to, but whether I can or not will be a different story. There's only so much room and power available here, and I have nowhere else to put anything.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 20, 2017)

One of my purchase has arrived today.





Waiting for the 1070 to arrive.

My Mining Machine:

2 × EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 Superclocked 6GB

1 x EVGA GeForce GTX 1070 FTW Gaming ACX 3.0 - 8GB

1 x EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 SC Gaming ACX 3.0 - 8GB

1 x EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Classified 8GB


----------



## Lt_JWS (Jun 21, 2017)

Swapped my rx470 over to my AM1 system.  Power draw is 155 watts compared to 235 watts on an undervolted and underclocked am FX. Still pulling 27.5Mhs


----------



## FireFox (Jun 21, 2017)

There she is:



 

 

 

 



Pulled out one 1060 and installed instead te 1080.


----------



## hat (Jun 21, 2017)

Care to post some numbers?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 21, 2017)

For those curious how zcash compares






3x 1070's 1220 sols/s 410w (85%TDP  +50 core +550 memory)
2x 980Ti's 860 sol/s 530w (100%TDP +75 core +350 memory)
2x 1080Ti's 1240 sols/s 415w (80% TDP +25 core +300 memory)

The 1070's can about equal the 1080ti's when the ram is pushed to 650, but they cannot hold that stable over night, the 980Ti's card for card equal the 1070, but require an extra 100+ watts to do so.

*EDIT:*
Oh and here is balls out on the 1080Ti's just in case you are curious how little core clock matters (to a point)






and here is my 1080Ti's ignore the ugly cabling trying to decide what the hell I am going to do with that.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 21, 2017)

On another note I have been researching the mining cards.

*ZOTAC*











*MSI "$224"*






http://www.ipexinfo.com/product/search?catId=AC&brand=MSI 

UPC 824142149362

for sale in russia

https://www.sp-computer.ru/catalog/1452/57475/

*ASUS "$226"
*


----------



## FireFox (Jun 21, 2017)

cdawall said:


> For those curious how zcash compares
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You OC the cards and add more Watts and heat for what 0.40$ more is it worth?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 21, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> You OC the cards and add more Watts and heat for what 0.40$ more is it worth?



I did for comparison, but normal life is 80% TDP and +300 memory then I just swap profiles for games.


----------



## Divide Overflow (Jun 21, 2017)

192 bit memory bus on those P106 miners?


----------



## FireFox (Jun 21, 2017)

hat said:


> Care to post some numbers?



This is what i suppose to earn monthly with what i have mining right now: 2 x 1080 - 1 x 1060 but i don't trust those numbers they are inaccurate because as you know the value goes up and down and it's not always the same.





What the pic shows above it's running the Cards at stock, i guess i should earn a few cents more per card due to the +600 Memory clock i have added to each Card.

Note: when i get the rest of the hardware i ordered and the Mining Machine is finished i should earn 600€+ Monthly.

The Mining Open Air Case i have ordered has finally arrived.

Took me few minutes to put the pieces together.


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Jun 21, 2017)

Is it worth to get a 1080Ti for my main rig and put the 1080 that I have in the Second PC (is in my signature) and mine with it? I have a nicehash account. I am not sure if I will loose money if I do this. Can you advise?


----------



## FireFox (Jun 21, 2017)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> Is it worth to get a 1080Ti for my main rig and put the 1080 that I have in the Second PC (is in my signature) and mine with it? I have a nicehash account. I am not sure if I will loose money if I do this. Can you advise?



The 1080ti earns you 40€+ over the 1080


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Jun 21, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> The 1080ti earns you 40€+ over the 1080


I will use the 1080Ti for gaming though or maybe overnight I will use it for mining too. Is this investment  is worth at all?


----------



## FireFox (Jun 21, 2017)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> I will use the 1080Ti for gaming though or maybe overnight I will use it for mining too. Is this investment  is worth at all?



When i am at work and overnight my 1080 classified mine.


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Jun 21, 2017)

Can I mine with 2 PC's on the same nicehash account?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 21, 2017)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> Can I mine with 2 PC's on the same nicehash account?


As many as you like


----------



## FireFox (Jun 21, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> As many as you like


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Jun 21, 2017)

I've ordered this Gigabyte AORUS NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11G 11 GB GDDR5x 352 Bit,680£ on Amazon...I will mine for 10 days with both 1080 and 1080Ti and see if it's worth it


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 21, 2017)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> Can I mine with 2 PC's on the same nicehash account?


Yes you can, they will all be going to the same bitcoin wallet address. 

I have 18 mining rigs going to the same wallet address.


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Jun 21, 2017)

How does the wallet thing works and how do I convert the crypto currency into real money?


----------



## FireFox (Jun 21, 2017)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> How does the wallet thing works and how do I convert the crypto currency into real money?



Coinbase, create an account and set your Euro Wallet's address in Nicehash.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jun 21, 2017)

The 1080 TI has arrived. Time to install.

Gigabyte Aorus 1080 TI
EDIT: Will try a few other settings later tonight
Also wall power meter in on the way.

Monitor On = 25w
PC only Power:
Off = 2.5w
Power on: 175w
Mining Lyra2REv2 Speed at the time
Stock 100% = 335w 64.002 MH/s $8.44, 660 Sols/s
Stock 90% = 300w 61.754 MH/s $7.80
Stock 80% = 270 60.522 MH/s $7.44, 560 Sols/s

Stock: Max 76C. Can't hear GPU fans






Stock 80% power limit: Max 69C. Can't hear GPU fans


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Jun 22, 2017)

Delta6326 said:


> The 1080 TI has arrived. Time to install.



I've ordered one of these as well, lots of people are complaining about the coil wine. Do you have that?

Regards


----------



## FireFox (Jun 22, 2017)

So guys i have a question about something that really worry me a lot.

The 1080 uses 342 W in full load, using
Profitability calculator it says that my 1080 cost 1.12€ per day and 33€ monthly but using a power bill calculator it says that it cost 2€ per day and 61€ monthly, that said why the profitability calculator says one price and the power bill calculator says otherwise?


----------



## LightningJR (Jun 22, 2017)

Delta6326 said:


>



The 1080ti only gets an increase of 2.5MH/s over my 1070 (1.75MH/s if I max out the 1070) :S doesn't seem like it scales very well past a 1070 then. There's a nice jump from a 1060 to a 1070 though, very odd.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 22, 2017)

Ummmm, i have been reading about power consumption and it says that the 1080 uses max 180W, i dont understand why my power meter read 331W, very odd.

Does anyone with a 1080 could tell me how much power it's consuming?


----------



## dorsetknob (Jun 22, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> i fDont understand why my power meter read 331W, very odd.



perhaps your registering total system power


----------



## FireFox (Jun 22, 2017)

dorsetknob said:


> perhaps your registering total system power



Could be, but if the 1080 uses 180w how could be possible that just the system uses 151W, what would be using 151W if the system it's at stock?

Note: i have 2 x 1060 in the System but they are running with and external power supply.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jun 22, 2017)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> I've ordered one of these as well, lots of people are complaining about the coil wine. Do you have that?
> 
> Regards



I haven't noticed any yet, I haven't tried any games or benchmarks, just mining. 
My old GPU had cool whine. 

Yeah these don't get to great of numbers do to the memory type. 
But I'm Judy wanting to get ROI and I'll be happy.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 22, 2017)

No advices, any help?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 22, 2017)

LightningJR said:


> The 1080ti only gets an increase of 2.5MH/s over my 1070 (1.75MH/s if I max out the 1070) :S doesn't seem like it scales very well past a 1070 then. There's a nice jump from a 1060 to a 1070 though, very odd.



Nvidia doesn't mine ethereum very well past the 1070, from what I understand it is due to how loose the memory timings are with gddr5x. The numbers with zcash however jump way up. 430sol/s is about normal for a 980Ti/1070, but the 1080Ti can do 700 sols/s with proper ram and core clocks. I pull off 660sols/s with some very minor tweaking on my pair of Asus strix's and the evga I just relegated to a garage rig.



Knoxx29 said:


> No advices, any help?



I never measured what the 1080's got at the wall when I was playing with them. They don't do the best in mining so I haven't really bothered.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 22, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I never measured what the 1080's got at the wall when I was playing with them. They don't do the best in mining so I haven't really bothered.



Let's forget about how well they do or not, my main concern is why the power meter is showing 331W if the card uses 180W let's add 20W more 200W so 200 to 331W there's a difference of 131W, what could be using 131W in the system? as i have said before the System it's running at stock and save mode power plan and the other cards are running with an external power supply?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 22, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Let's forget about how well they do or not, my main concern is why the power meter is showing 331W if the card uses 180W let's add 20W more 200W so 200 to 331W there's a difference of 131W, what could be using 131W in the system? as i have said before the System it's running at stock and save mode power plan and the other cards are running with an external power supply?



It's x58. We aren't talking about efficient the chipset is like 35w tdp or some crap like that.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 22, 2017)

cdawall said:


> It's x58



What the hell are you talking about?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 22, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> What the hell are you talking about?



OK tired cdawall was thinking those were in your x58 rig. Posting from mobile doesn't show your signature. 

Water cooling+3 hard drives+board doesn't surprise me normal running is over 100 watts...


----------



## FireFox (Jun 22, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Water cooling+3 hard drives+board doesn't surprise me normal running is over 100 watts...



That would make more sense, in any case tonight i will test the card with the external power supply to see if power consumption is the same.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 22, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> That would make more sense, in any case tonight i will test the card with the external power supply to see if power consumption is the same.



Run equihash and check the consumption read out. That is what the input sense flags for consumption on the card and tends to be spot on.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 22, 2017)

mstenholm said:


> A X58 system uses +50 W just when you think of it, 100 W when you turn it on and 130 W when your WC system starts the pump.



I am not running a X58 system



cdawall said:


> Run equihash and check the consumption read out. That is what the input sense flags for consumption on the card and tends to be spot on.



I will do it later when i get home after work.


----------



## mstenholm (Jun 22, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> I am not running a X58 system
> 
> 
> 
> I will do it later when i get home after work.


Yeah I saw after posting. Post deleted. Nice that you thank me so elegantly. Reminds me of not doing that again.....


----------



## cdawall (Jun 22, 2017)

mstenholm said:


> Yeah I saw after posting. Post deleted. Nice that you thank me so elegantly. Reminds me of not doing that again.....



Don't fret its just @Knoxx29 he is a bit brash haha


----------



## FireFox (Jun 22, 2017)

mstenholm said:


> Nice that you thank me so elegantly. Remind me of not doing that again.....



Dont take it in a bad way it was some kind of joke


----------



## mstenholm (Jun 22, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Don't fret its just @Knoxx29 he is a bit brash haha


I know. And in fact when I posted I regretted that I was trying to help. For sure it will newer happen again.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 22, 2017)

mstenholm said:


> I know. And in fact when I posted I regretted that I was trying to help. For sure it will newer happen again.



Really, are you taking it that personal?


----------



## hat (Jun 22, 2017)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> How does the wallet thing works and how do I convert the crypto currency into real money?


I've signed up for a Coinbase account and am currently waiting on verification deposits to appear in my bank account. It seems just like PayPal. You can mine BTC into your Coinbase account, and then from there you can perform BTC transactions. Coinbase is also where you can sell your BTC for actual cash, which gets deposited into your bank account.

On my end, Dell is being so slow... they haven't shipped out yet, and the expected delivery date stretches all the way to July 6! I guess I should be happy to be getting anything though, considering the price I found them for, my financial situation as it is and product availability elsewhere...

Has anyone heard any more about those specialized mining cards? Those would be perfect for my second build, once I get there.


----------



## LightningJR (Jun 22, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Let's forget about how well they do or not, my main concern is why the power meter is showing 331W if the card uses 180W let's add 20W more 200W so 200 to 331W there's a difference of 131W, what could be using 131W in the system? as i have said before the System it's running at stock and save mode power plan and the other cards are running with an external power supply?



you taking in to account power supply efficiency losses?


----------



## FireFox (Jun 22, 2017)

LightningJR said:


> you taking in to account power supply efficiency losses?



That would be/means?


----------



## hat (Jun 22, 2017)

Imagine a system that pulls 100w from the wall. If the power supply is 80% efficient, that means the system is actually using 80w but pulling 100w because there is a 20% inefficiency. That's why some people like their power supplies as efficient as possible (80+ bronze, silver, gold, even titanium now). The higher efficiency means your system pulls less power from the wall, resulting in lower power bills and less heat generated.

Many will argue that the price difference between a more efficient unit and a cheaper one isn't worth the price given the power savings, but in this case especially I think it is worth it. We're talking mining rigs loaded with high power video cards running full load all the time. When electricity cost money, the less you use, the better, and we stand to shave off a decent chunk on the power bill by using the most efficient power supplies in these machines. Not to mention a little less energy wasted as heat in a scenario where these rigs are already dumping tons of heat from the load generated by mining.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 22, 2017)

hat said:


> Imagine a system that pulls 100w from the wall. If the power supply is 80% efficient, that means the system is actually using 80w but pulling 100w because there is a 20% inefficiency. That's why some people like their power supplies as efficient as possible (80+ bronze, silver, gold, even titanium now). The higher efficiency means your system pulls less power from the wall, resulting in lower power bills and less heat generated.
> 
> Many will argue that the price difference between a more efficient unit and a cheaper one isn't worth the price given the power savings, but in this case especially I think it is worth it. We're talking mining rigs loaded with high power video cards running full load all the time. When electricity cost money, the less you use, the better, and we stand to shave off a decent chunk on the power bill by using the most efficient power supplies in these machines. Not to mention a little less energy wasted as heat in a scenario where these rigs are already dumping tons of heat from the load generated by mining.



I have an Enermax platimax 1000W 80Plus Platinum up to 93% efficiency.

Is there any way how to solve the power losses?


----------



## hat (Jun 22, 2017)

There is no such thing as a 100% efficient power supply. Even 80+ Titanium units (Titanium being the most efficient that currently exists) suffer from efficiency loss. If your rig requires 1000w, you WILL pull >1000w from the wall. How much more is up to the efficiency of the power supply you have. You have a Platinum unit which is already very good, so there's not much you can do at this point. My best advice is look for a Titanium unit if ever you need another power supply, but don't worry about changing your current unit. It's already really high end and upgrading to a Titanium unit won't be worth the cost. You'll get somewhere around 2% more efficiency, that's all. Even if your rig requires 1000w, you're looking at <50w savings on the power draw here.

Some further reading
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_Plus


----------



## aGeoM (Jun 22, 2017)

Hi

Received today on my bank account my first payment (Jun 20) from Coinbase, only 2 working days from payment, bank account verification and transfer, and the amount of money I had to transfer to verify my account was refunded to my Euro wallet. Really great.

BTW Running 2 systems, the one with power meter is pulling 190-200W and it is an 6300FX, MSI 970 Gaming  with HD7870 including Monitor. My main rig I don't know (MSI Tomahawk + Ryzen 1700 + RX480/580) total power but GPU pulling 93W (GPU-Z reading).


----------



## hat (Jun 22, 2017)

I don't know if running a 7870 would be worth it. You're looking at 1.52 USD/day after power costs running that (rough guess based on the profitability calculator). 

If you're serious about mining, you may want to try grabbing a pair of GTX1060s or 1070s for that rig. They'll do better for you.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 22, 2017)

hat said:


> I don't know if running a 7870 would be worth it. You're looking at 1.52 USD/day after power costs running that (rough guess based on the profitability calculator).
> 
> If you're serious about mining, you may want to try grabbing a pair of GTX1060s or 1070s for that rig. They'll do better for you.



I have one running for free at the shop and even before electricity it is still pretty low.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 22, 2017)

hat said:


> There is no such thing as a 100% efficient power supply. Even 80+ Titanium units (Titanium being the most efficient that currently exists) suffer from efficiency loss. If your rig requires 1000w, you WILL pull >1000w from the wall. How much more is up to the efficiency of the power supply you have. You have a Platinum unit which is already very good, so there's not much you can do at this point. My best advice is look for a Titanium unit if ever you need another power supply, but don't worry about changing your current unit. It's already really high end and upgrading to a Titanium unit won't be worth the cost. You'll get somewhere around 2% more efficiency, that's all. Even if your rig requires 1000w, you're looking at <50w savings on the power draw here.
> 
> Some further reading
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_Plus



Fair enough.

Btw, i will do some tests later with another power supply, i will power the 1080 with and external power supply to see how much electricity it uses.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 22, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> Btw, i will do some tests later with another power supply, i will power the 1080 with and external power supply to see how much electricity it uses.



I doubt it uses that much, but the FTW 980Ti I have does use more power than the reference board at the same clocks. Just FYI


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 22, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Let's forget about how well they do or not, my main concern is why the power meter is showing 331W if the card uses 180W let's add 20W more 200W so 200 to 331W there's a difference of 131W, what could be using 131W in the system? as i have said before the System it's running at stock and save mode power plan and the other cards are running with an external power supply



id investigate the power save os feature, some bios config switches can render it mute, so it could be a power save feature, or cpu feature turned off or even an alternate software switch for example ,amds overdrive software will do that for me if the top right button is switched to red?? i know not the best discription but thats what it is with no id or nothing on the button and the helps got nowt but its boost ,anyway.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 22, 2017)

Hey you never know it could just be what the card is consuming 







So this is what being handed two free EVGA 980Ti classy's looks like


----------



## FireFox (Jun 22, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Hey you never know it could just be what the card is consuming



In that case i would sell the 1080 and buy 2 x 1060/1070


----------



## aGeoM (Jun 22, 2017)

hat said:


> I don't know if running a 7870 would be worth it. You're looking at 1.52 USD/day after power costs running that (rough guess based on the profitability calculator).
> 
> If you're serious about mining, you may want to try grabbing a pair of GTX1060s or 1070s for that rig. They'll do better for you.





I started mining after reading this thread, and I have a bunch of hardware laying around just for benching (no much time ATM), so I set an 2nd rig to test old graphics cards (AMD's 3870,4870,6950/70 and 7870), only the last two worked with NiceHash, 6950/70 mined Pascal at 0.70€/Day pulling almost 300W from wall not worth it, the 7870 with a heavily modded BIOS ( 7970 PowerPlay and Voltage Object Info, Hynix AFR Tahiti timings on a Vram Info from an X270) is mining EquiHash at 975 GPU/1600 MEM @1.45v for about 200.000-220.000 Sol/s, meaning +3€/Day, Power bill is 0.14€ KW/H pulling all system 200W total, isn't the best but it helped the payment of 53€ at the end of the week.

At this early stage of experiencing I don't know yet if I go or not for serious mining, I have to invest a lots of money that I don't have and mining until I got some will take a wile, I need cards and cooling systems, ambient temps here are about 33º ATM, keeping cards running 50º-60º 24/7 are impossible without proper cooling. Never the less if I can grab one of the new mining cards, it will help on the quest.


----------



## hat (Jun 23, 2017)

Well, far as I know 1060s don't run super hot, and they should do far better than a 7870 (each).

My cards are backordered and probably won't even ship until July 3  they're giving me a $50 coupon though


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 23, 2017)

I would love to get a hand on about 119 of those Nvidia mining cards.


----------



## hat (Jun 23, 2017)

I'd just be happy to get my hands on the two I've ordered, and then two more in the future once I've earned some profits...


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 23, 2017)

hat said:


> I'd just be happy to get my hands on the two I've ordered, and then two more in the future once I've earned some profits...


from where did you order those mining cards from


----------



## aGeoM (Jun 23, 2017)

hat said:


> Well, far as I know 1060s don't run super hot, and they should do far better than a 7870 (each).
> 
> My cards are backordered and probably won't even ship until July 3  they're giving me a $50 coupon though



Yes, they should but I already have it and buying an 1060  will cost me minimum 225€, if I spend money on mining have to be with mining money, until then I will wait and see how the things go.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 23, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> I would love to get a hand on about 119 of those Nvidia mining cards.



I just found 6 480/570/580's at old retail costs


----------



## hat (Jun 23, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> from where did you order those mining cards from


Dell. It's the only place I can possibly shop right now, as I have credit with them. The cards I picked are already backordered though.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 23, 2017)

hat said:


> I'd just be happy to get my hands on the two I've ordered, and then two more in the future once I've earned some profits...


from where did you order those mining cards from


cdawall said:


> I just found 6 480/570/580's at old retail costs


oh wow what a find, resell them and get 1070s. You can sell them for almost 1070 prices, if not add some 30-$50 and get those 1070s.


----------



## hat (Jun 23, 2017)

You missed my above post? I said I got them from Dell. Unfortunately they're backordered and they won't even ship out til the 3rd.


----------



## enzolt (Jun 23, 2017)

So when do you actually make a decent profit? Taking into account startup costs with the hardware and electricity cost. 6 months?


----------



## hat (Jun 23, 2017)

Personally, best case scenario I clear my original investment in 75 days upon receipt of my graphics cards, at 12 bucks a day. After that it's basically free money. Doesn't seem like much but that's around 300 bucks a month. If I could get two more 1070s that's 20-24 bucks a day, but I need more hardware to make that happen.

Of course the greatest chance lies in the bitcoins themselves. Once I clear my investment and some other debts, I could just pile up bitcoins and they may become really valuable in the future.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 23, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> oh wow what a find, resell them and get 1070s. You can sell them for almost 1070 prices, if not add some 30-$50 and get those 1070s.



If I can get them tomorrow I will. The question is will they last long enough for me to grab them (benefit of snagging the in transit reports lol)


----------



## FireFox (Jun 23, 2017)

Finally i have found where the problem was.

First thing, my Machine uses 65W in idle, the card has been always using 180W.

So, last night I tested the Machine just with the 1080 SC installed and the power consumption was 245W/247W, 180W that the card uses + 65W for the System, after that i added the 2 x 1060s, and the idle was 75W, so launched Nicehash and the power consumption was 255W, 180W for the 1080 and 75W for the System with the 2 x 1060s that added +10W, launched Nicehash with all 3 cards running, and here comes the funny thing: the 2 x 1060s were powered with an external power supply but because are installed in my machine they added 100W when mining and it doesn't matter if they are powered with an external power supply, so the power consumption was 355W, 180W for the 1080, 75W for the System and +100W that the 2 x 1060s added because they are installed in the Machine and running in full load.

Note: I have always thought that powering the cards with and external power supply it wouldn't add any Watts to the System, unfortunately i was completely wrong.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 23, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Finally i have found where the problem was.
> 
> First thing, my Machine uses 65W in idle, the card has been always using 180W.
> 
> So, last night I tested the Machine just with the 1080 SC installed and the power consumption was 245W/247W, 180W that the card uses + 65W for the System, after that i added the 2 x 1060s, and the idle was 75W, so launched Nicehash and the power consumption was 255W, 180W for the 1080 and 75W for the System with the 2 x 1060s that added +10W, launched Nicehash with all 3 cards running, and here comes the funny thing: the 2 x 1060s were powered with an external power supply but because are installed in my machine they added 100W when mining and it doesn't matter if they are powered with an external power supply, so the power consumption was 355W, 180W for the 1080, 75W for the System and 100W that the 2 x 1060s added because they are installed in the Machine and running in full load.


Yeah they still pull 75watts per card from the pciex if direct inserted thats why people use the extenders, to stop the mobo frying with more than four cards ,it likely would too.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 23, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Yeah they still pull 75watts per card from the pciex if direct inserted



In my case they are just pulling 55W per card.

Right now i am just running 2 cards in my system, the Classified and the Superclocked, adding the 1060s it's impossible because it's too hot and a few times they shut down, still waiting for the hardware i have ordered.

After i have the Mining Machine running with the proper hardware the power consumption should drop off approximately 50w or more.


----------



## LightningJR (Jun 23, 2017)

Idk if anyone else has noticed but my profit per day has decreased by just over 1usd since i started mining less than a week ago. That's nearly a 20% decrease already. Profitability will continue to become more and more difficult as more people mine. I wouldn't invest too much in this endeavor. Don't get burned


----------



## FireFox (Jun 23, 2017)

LightningJR said:


> Idk if anyone else has noticed but my profit per day has decreased by just over 1usd since i started mining less than a week ago. That's nearly a 20% decrease already. Profitability will continue to become more and more difficult as more people mine. I wouldn't invest too much in this endeavor. Don't get burned



It decrease when bitcoin and ethereum value or whatever you are mining decrease.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 23, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> It decrease when bitcoin and ethereum value or whatever you are mining decrease.



Right now Ethereum is down $100 per coin vs last week


----------



## FireFox (Jun 23, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Right now Ethereum is down $100 per coin vs last week



That's a catastrophe


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 23, 2017)

And my Titan X just started crunching Ethereum for kicks when I work and in the evenings.  Nom nom.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 23, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> crunching



Mining.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 23, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Mining.



Meh, I used the term intentionally as it's still crunching numbers and Ethereum can be used for compute (you ARE doing smart contracts, afterall).

I know it's not the popular term but I don't care.  Besides "crunching" pairs better with the "nom nom" pun.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 23, 2017)

I been trading coins for a while. Started with bitcoin since 2011. If I was still mining I would be mining Litecoin.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 23, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> And my Titan X just started crunching Ethereum for kicks when I work and in the evenings.  Nom nom.



It'll do better at zcash all of maxwell does.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 23, 2017)

Piss me off that i can't mine with the 1060s


----------



## cdawall (Jun 23, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Piss me off that i can't mine with the 1060s



why can't you?


----------



## FireFox (Jun 23, 2017)

cdawall said:


> why can't you?



I see you miss some of my post

Here: 





Knoxx29 said:


> Right now i am just running 2 cards in my system, the Classified and the Superclocked, adding the 1060s it's impossible because it's too hot and a few times they shut down, still waiting for the hardware i have ordered.



And I guess you missed the post where i explained why the 1080 SC was pulling more watts than what it should.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 23, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> I see you miss some of my post
> 
> Here:
> 
> And I guess you missed the post where i explained why the 1080 SC was pulling more watts than what it should.



MOAR FANS


----------



## hat (Jun 23, 2017)




----------



## R-T-B (Jun 23, 2017)

cdawall said:


> MOAR FANS



Hey, I have a pile of old really dang fast delta electronics blowers if you want that insanity.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 23, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Hey, I have a pile of old really dang fast delta electronics blowers if you want that insanity.



My garage rigs use delta/nidec 255cfm fans


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 24, 2017)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> I been trading coins for a while. Started with bitcoin since 2011. If I was still mining I would be mining Litecoin.


The main problem with litecoin is getting the ASIC from those Chinese guys.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 24, 2017)

cdawall said:


> My garage rigs use delta/nidec 255cfm fans



GHE's?

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835213001

Those are mine.  Got 4 in unknown condition.  You could pay shipping and poke through them if you want (goes for all you guys).


----------



## cdawall (Jun 24, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> GHE's?
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835213001
> 
> Those are mine.  Got 4 in unknown condition.  You could pay shipping and poke through them if you want (goes for all you guys).



nidec beta v's and whatever the delta equal was they are all 4 pin dell pulls. They are heavier duty than the ones you linked.


----------



## Divide Overflow (Jun 24, 2017)

There is an interesting article from LegitReviews on Ethereum hashrates and advancing DAG rates.  As noted here earlier, some AMD hardware seems to suffering from declining hashrates recently.  An odd problem that is only expected to get worse, unless a mining optimized driver can address some of the underlying issues.  Perhaps the exorbitant prices for AMD 480/580 cards may come down soon and NVIDIA's 10xx series will have it's turn at hyper-inflation.


----------



## notb (Jun 24, 2017)

Divide Overflow said:


> Perhaps the exorbitant prices for AMD 480/580 cards may come down soon and NVIDIA's 10xx series will have it's turn at hyper-inflation.


It has already happened because of very limited AMD card supply.
GTX 10-series cards are already more expensive than at launch. In some countries it becomes really silly.
In Poland 1050Ti costs as much as 1060 3GB used to just 2 months ago.
Yesterday I wanted to buy a 1050Ti (ASUS Strix). I've checked before work and a major retailer in Poland had a few available in a nearby store.
Price: 800 PLN (~212 USD). I decided this is the highest I can tolerate - already being pretty irritated since it had costed 700 PLN a week ago.

Sadly, I didn't order online and had a long meeting at work. I checked again around 5 p.m. and nothing changed, but when I got to the store at 5:30 it already costed 900 PLN (~239 USD). :-D
The card was on a shelf and still had a sticker with the earlier price - basically the shop assistant learned from me that they did a +100 PLN shift on all 1050 GPUs...


----------



## FireFox (Jun 24, 2017)

At least in the city where i live i haven't seen any increment in prices, i got the 1080 Superclocked for 525€ and the 1060 SC for 270€ each, if you check in Amazon the 1080 SC cost 658,25€.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 24, 2017)

I have a question, how do I know which work is better than other.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 24, 2017)

There are several pages that show what the best currency is at the current time.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 24, 2017)

cdawall said:


> There are several pages that show what the best currency is at the current time.



Link please

I asked because Nicehash have been picking just Lyra2REv2 and Lbry and i have noticed that they are not giving me that much earn.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 24, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Link please
> 
> I asked because Nicehash have been picking just Lyra2REv2 and Lbry and i have noticed that they are not giving me that much earn.



https://whattomine.com/

It isn't abnormal for your cards to pick lyra.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 24, 2017)

cdawall said:


> https://whattomine.com/
> 
> It isn't abnormal for your cards to pick lyra.



Thanks for the link, too many numbers confused me, yeap, it's not abnormal but it's not what i should be mining right now.

Quick explanation how that table works?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 24, 2017)

Input hashrate (or use the bottom rights gpu selection) and it will show what is most profitable at the bottom.


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Jun 24, 2017)

I got a 1060 6GB from MSI and I started mining with it from today on my second PC


----------



## FireFox (Jun 24, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Input hashrate (or use the bottom rights gpu selection) and it will show what is most profitable at the bottom.



Still don't know where to look, too many numbers. or maybe i am too ignorant.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jun 24, 2017)

Ugh my WISP is down! No internet... so far the 1080 Ti has got around  $16


----------



## notb (Jun 24, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> At least in the city where i live i haven't seen any increment in prices, i got the 1080 Superclocked for 525€ and the 1060 SC for 270€ each, if you check in Amazon the 1080 SC cost 658,25€.


In Poland the PC parts' market is dominated by a few large online retailers (some of them have stores as well, but they're mostly for picking up orders).
I'll give you examples of popular (MSI Gaming X) cards from AFAIK the largest one. Prices in other stores are very similar. They include VAT: 23%.

model ----- price [USD] --- ROI [days] -- relative performance@TPU [%]
1050 ------- 161 ----------- 110 --------- 100
1050Ti ----- 233 ----------- 130 --------- 122
1060 6GB -- 543 ----------- 175 --------- 196
1070 ------- 782 ----------- 170 --------- 267
1080 ------- 834 ----------- 160 --------- 318

ROI is based on nicehash calculator "past 30 days", relative performance is from MSI 1050 review (https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_1050_Gaming_X/27.html).

Clearly, prices are adjusted towards a ~1/2 year ROI. 1050 and Ti are relatively cheap, but it's likely they'll also stop being profitable fairly soon.
Question is: are these the prices I should get used to now? :-/

It's much better in US (as usual ). Amazon US not only gives significant discounts on GPUs, but there's also a mail-in rebate from MSI (and other manufacturers as well).
For the MSI 1080 Gaming X it looks like this:
730 - 160 [discount] - 40 [rebates] = 530 USD
Even if you include the polish VAT it would be relatively cheap:
(730-160)*1.23 - 40 = *661 USD
*
This just shows how much GPU prices were inflated in less wealthy countries. The average monthly salary in Poland (after tax) is around 800 USD.
So while in US or Grmany you'd have to make a mining farm (cdawall-style) to make this worth the fuss, in Poland even a single GPU can make a difference.
According to nicehash a 1070 would earn 140 USD / month. Even with that long ROI this potentially means a significant income.


----------



## LightningJR (Jun 24, 2017)

ZCash is now more profitable for me. After power costs it's 20-25c more a day than ETH. 75% power limit works best it seems for a 1070 with ZCash.

Edit: ZCash must have just got a price hike, im getting ~50c more now.  ZCash's price must fluctuate a lot..


----------



## FireFox (Jun 24, 2017)

notb said:


> Question is: are these the prices I should get used to now? :-/



Well, till this mining thing keep going on i am afraid these are the prices you have to get used to.



LightningJR said:


> ZCash is now more profitable for me. After power costs it's 20-25c more a day than ETH. 75% power limit works best it seems for a 1070 with ZCash.
> 
> Edit: ZCash must have just got a price hike, im getting ~50c more now.  ZCash's price must fluctuate a lot..



I don't know how could it be more profitable if according to this link provided by @cdawall https://whattomine.com/  it looks like ZCash it is not doing that well.


----------



## notb (Jun 24, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Well, till this mining thing keep going on i am afraid these are the prices you have to get used to.


Well... there's always the possibility that manufacturers will differentiate GPUs.
We know that mining versions are coming and that they don't differ much from the gaming ones (at least in hardware). People expect their drivers to be more optimized for mining, but also the opposite is possible: NVIDIA might be able to artificially limit mining performance of future gaming GPUs - hence shifting them back to proper prices. What I am worried about is that this could also affect GPGPU performance, which I'm actually looking for (most of the games I play run on HD 630 pretty well...).
NVIDIA is rumored to release a Pascal Refresh for the 1050-series with 1060-like clocks near the end of the year, but why wait? We know this chip is ready. Even the cards available today could overclock to 1060's levels (they're all artificially limited).

Unlike many think, this situation is not that great for GPU card vendors and GPU chip manufacturers. Suddenly, PC gaming became a lot more expensive. This will only lead to shrinking of PC market share and further boost for consoles and smartphones.

I'm sure they're working on a solution. I'm sure most ideas are idiotic or unrealistic, but they'll find a way.
*Honestly, if someone made a GPU that only works for 12h/day but costs half of what I'd have to pay today, I'd be delighted.*


----------



## hat (Jun 24, 2017)

I doubt nvidia would artificially cripple mining performance. To do so would be handing customers over to AMD.


----------



## LightningJR (Jun 25, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Well, till this mining thing keep going on i am afraid these are the prices you have to get used to.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know how could it be more profitable if according to this link provided by @cdawall https://whattomine.com/  it looks like ZCash it is not doing that well.




idk what to tell you but it's been consistent as of right now. ~.50c+ as of right now over ETH. Don't minei t, works for me. More ppl that don't the better the price. I'm pretty stoked that it's mining well.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 25, 2017)

@Knoxx29 since you asked earlier I have been playing with a 1080 today (strix edition) and it pulls right at 200w from the wall (182w according to software) that is with the TDP pushed to +20% and +100 core +500 memory which is good for 490sol/s in equihash


----------



## LightningJR (Jun 25, 2017)

cdawall said:


> @Knoxx29 since you asked earlier I have been playing with a 1080 today (strix edition) and it pulls right at 200w from the wall (182w according to software) that is with the TDP pushed to +20% and +100 core +500 memory which is good for 490sol/s in equihash



I am at 75% power/+550Mem and getting ~430sol/s on my 1070.  Software says 120W.


----------



## notb (Jun 25, 2017)

hat said:


> I doubt nvidia would artificially cripple mining performance. To do so would be handing customers over to AMD.


But:
- they have actually announced mining cards and AMD haven't (yet),
- the 2 companies could actually be planning this together,
- AMD has limited manufacturing capabilities: there is a shortage of their GPUs already,
- as I said earlier: mining boom is an issue for both NVIDIA and AMD (and even more so for card manufacturers) - I'm sure they'd be willing to sacrifice some mining sales to get this covered. And if they work together, they don't have to sacrifice anything - just make a new product for the mining community.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 25, 2017)

notb said:


> the 2 companies could actually be planning this together,





notb said:


> And if they work together,



Ummmm, i guess you forgot to take your pills last night  or you ate too much Chocolate

Joke.


----------



## notb (Jun 25, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Ummmm, i guess you forgot to take your pills last night  or you ate too much Chocolate
> 
> Joke.


Why?

Are you one those people that believe competing companies hate each other and are unable to cooperate?


----------



## FireFox (Jun 25, 2017)

notb said:


> Why?
> 
> Are you one those people that believe competing companies hate each other and are unable to cooperate?



Unfortunately yes, Nvidia doesn't need AMD.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 25, 2017)

Hi lads.

Quick question.

I have always bought Enermax platimax power supply, i need a power supply for the mining Machine i am building so i decided to buy a Cooler master one, can someone give me some advice about this one: *COOLER MASTER RS700-ACABB1-EU B2 SERIES*

http://eu.coolermaster.com/uk/powersupply/office-home/b700ver2/

Edit: it doesn't say 80+ Bronze/Gold or Platinum

Just:



 

WTF

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Norton (Jun 25, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> it doesn't say 80+ Bronze/Gold or Platinum



That's 80+ EU (see chart here):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_Plus


----------



## FireFox (Jun 25, 2017)

Norton said:


> That's 80+ EU (see chart here):
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_Plus



Would be OK for 24/7 full load?


----------



## Norton (Jun 25, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Would be OK for 24/7 full load?


That would depend on the quality of its internal components/build quality....


----------



## FireFox (Jun 25, 2017)

Norton said:


> That would depend on the quality of its internal components/build quality....



Now you scared me what you wrote it's enough for not to buy it


----------



## toilet pepper (Jun 25, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Hi lads.
> 
> Quick question.
> 
> ...




I got a 7 yr old 500w Cooler Master PSU on a rig and I can confirm they are reliable. I'm using an FSP 750w Aurum for around 4 yrs now and it is still kicking.

My advice is check reviews. Most of the time the rated efficiency of a PSU only happens under a certain wattage the PSU is rated for. Better to calculate your system's total draw and base it off from there. TPU does a great job on these reviews as well.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 25, 2017)

toilet pepper said:


> My advice is check reviews.



Read enough, decided not to buy it.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 25, 2017)

Yea most coolermaster powersupplies are tier 4 and tier 5 or not the most looked for items out there.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 25, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Yea most coolermaster powersupplies are tier 4 and tier 5 or not the most looked for items out there.



Yeap, i will buy a XFX-XTR, i had a few when i used to Crunch.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 25, 2017)

This morning before i went to work i tried to change what Nicehash was mining but i didn't find how to do it, is it possible?

Not answer need it, i guess i have found how to do it, i will post later in case i didn't get it to work.


----------



## r9 (Jun 25, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> This morning before i went to work i tried to change what Nicehash was mining but i didn't find how to do it, is it possible?
> 
> Not answer need it, i guess i have found how to do it, i will post later in case i didn't get it to work.


Just re-run the benchmark and it will select the most profitable one for you.


----------



## r9 (Jun 25, 2017)

Ethereum price is going down fast.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 25, 2017)

r9 said:


> Ethereum price is going down fast.



Yeap, and unfortunately that's what my Cards are mining, don't know what to do, i can't have mining 2 cards that pull over 450W+ when Ethereum is going down so fast.


----------



## notb (Jun 25, 2017)

r9 said:


> Ethereum price is going down fast.


Oh come on. It's still above the levels we've seen 3 weeks ago - this thread already existed.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 25, 2017)

notb said:


> Oh come on. It's still above the levels we've seen 3 weeks ago - this thread already existed.



Yea these are going to fluctuate all over the place.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 26, 2017)

So im building a miner for someone and with whats available now ive a few questions , so five pciexx1 is my chosen available mobo because nothing is available ,but hey we work with what you can so to the actual questions.
Is 4Gb of ddr3 enough.?
Gtx1060 mini ,its 20-30 quid cheaper ,lower wattage ,yay or hell nay.?
And hdd i was thinking the cheapest ,pos i Can smash out of an old laptop , but thought maybe a small ssd might help with pagefile use? And hashrate.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 26, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Yea these are going to fluctuate all over the place.



It's been going down for a bad reason though:  The blockchain is aparently having issues with scability and performance to the point that several exchanges have stopped or delayed trading.  All in all, I love Ethereum because it's one of the most innovative coins to show it's face in a while, but it seems it needs some serious dev attention or something.

Still, the time to buy (or in this case, mine) is when there is blood in the streets.  You guys know what to do...

EDIT: Speaking of which, looks like no amount of blood will let me buy.  Coinbase has aparently halted buy trades?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 26, 2017)

I don't show anything stopping me from buying eth on coinbase?


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 26, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I don't show anything stopping me from buying eth on coinbase?



It was a notice on the site briefly.  Appears to have only been up for about an hour.  It was only on buy trades, bizarrely.  Looks more like a technical issue.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jun 26, 2017)

Uhmmm I have issues, My payout is do today $28 and I just checked and noticed the Bitcoin address some how isn't the same as my Coinbase BTC Wallet? Does the Coinbase wallets stay the same? Because I know I copied it directly from Coinbase.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 26, 2017)

The address changes the old address is still your address. They have a FAQ about it if you need more information


----------



## verycharbroiled (Jun 26, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Is 4Gb of ddr3 enough.?
> Gtx1060 mini ,its 20-30 quid cheaper ,lower wattage ,yay or hell nay.?
> And hdd i was thinking the cheapest ,pos i Can smash out of an old laptop , but thought maybe a small ssd might help with pagefile use? And hashrate.



4 gb ram is fine, especially if using something *nix based for an OS. if youre gonna use windows as the OS you should go with 8. it would run on 4 but it will probably suck as far as usability.

the 1060 mini.. i prefer regular size cards with 2-3 fans as they will cool better and quieter. i mined with a rx380itx single fan, same size as the 1060 mini and that fan had to really wind up sometimes to keep the card cool.

as for the drive, any drive will do but i use ssds as its much faster when doing maintenance like driver updates, OS installs, miner updates etc. i used a M2 ssd in my basement rig as its 2 less cables to worry about. a 64 gb ssd will be fine and they are pretty cheap.

the drive, ssd or spinner, will not affect mining speed.

EDIT: you can get away with a cheap cpu like the i5 G1840. but you may want to go with a "t" series cpu, the "t" denotes low power versions. for example i have a i5 6400t in my htpc. allows me to run the fans much slower as the cpu stays cooler. 35 watt v 65 watts for the regular i5 6400


----------



## cdawall (Jun 26, 2017)

I run all mini 1060's wattage is kept in the 65-75w range so the coolers are more than adequate. These aren't 150-200w r9 380's.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jun 26, 2017)

cdawall said:


> The address changes the old address is still your address. They have a FAQ about it if you need more information



Thanks found it! Get payout In about 5hrs, then time for Steam sale...


----------



## verycharbroiled (Jun 26, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I run all mini 1060's wattage is kept in the 65-75w range so the coolers are more than adequate. These aren't 150-200w r9 380's.



true enough, i forgot how power hungry the r9 380s are vs the nvidia 10x0 series

still prefer two fans though


----------



## cdawall (Jun 26, 2017)

verycharbroiled said:


> true enough, i forgot how power hungry the r9 380s are vs the nvidia 10x0 series
> 
> still prefer two fans though



When I grabbed my cards it was like $50 USD more for the twin fan models not worth it for me


----------



## Delta6326 (Jun 26, 2017)

Ugh another issue, had to restart the computer now, nicehash won't even open. Any ideas?


----------



## verycharbroiled (Jun 26, 2017)

cdawall said:


> When I grabbed my cards it was like $50 USD more for the twin fan models not worth it for me



holy smokes thats a big difference. dont blame ya dont know if there was any price difference between the 380itx version and the normal 380 when i bought it. i went with the itx size specifically so it would fit in my htpc when i was done mining on it. its the 2 gb version and couldnt mine eth anymore so now it sits in the htpc playing videos and the occasional game.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 26, 2017)

Delta6326 said:


> Ugh another issue, had to restart the computer now, nicehash won't even open. Any ideas?



restart again and retry? I have had it open slower than dogshit in the past.



verycharbroiled said:


> holy smokes thats a big difference. dont blame ya dont know if there was any price difference between the 380itx version and the normal 380 when i bought it. i went with the itx size specifically so it would fit in my htpc when i was done mining on it. its the 2 gb version and couldnt mine eth anymore so now it sits in the htpc playing videos and the occasional game.



Mine zcash with it. They still pull off a couple bucks a day lol


----------



## verycharbroiled (Jun 26, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Mine zcash with it. They still pull off a couple bucks a day lol



ive been tempted but the htpc is in the living room so we would have to listen to the fan.

htpc build was for low noise/low power: 6400t low power cpu. ssds only, slow case fans. it can handle occasional gaming at 1080p but the fan ramps up pretty quick. that fan noise is fine while gaming but not when watching a movie heh

low noise = happy wife


----------



## cdawall (Jun 26, 2017)

verycharbroiled said:


> ive been tempted but the htpc is in the living room so we would have to listen to the fan.
> 
> htpc build was for low noise/low power: 6400t low power cpu. ssds only, slow case fans. it can handle occasional gaming at 1080p but the fan ramps up pretty quick. that fan noise is fine while gaming but not when watching a movie heh
> 
> low noise = happy wife



I am really contemplating a redux on my HTPC right now so it can handle 4K games. Right now I just stream from my desktop through steam which is obviously less than perfect, thanks to mining I have a spare EVGA 1080Ti. I am curious how temps are in the Milo cases.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jun 26, 2017)

Solved my issue, glad i kept the zip file. My Antivirus deleted cpuid.dll and MessageBoxManager.dll.

McAfee


----------



## LightningJR (Jun 26, 2017)

It's official, the price per day that nicehash reports is half of what it was when I started about 10 days ago.

While still profitable it is soon not worth the time to me to be mining on a single 1070 imo. I have been using my laptop to in order to keep my PC at 100% 24/7 but I may stop after this payout tomorrow or maybe go a little longer to see if it continues to drop.


If this trend continues I really pity all who have invested in an expensive rig or a new GPU or multiple in order to cash out. It'll really hurt.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 26, 2017)

LightningJR said:


> I may stop



I have stopped since this morning.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jun 26, 2017)

Ouch I'm down to $4.15 for my 1080 Ti...

My time keeps going up any idea when I would get my actual payout?


----------



## LightningJR (Jun 26, 2017)

Delta6326 said:


> Ouch I'm down to $4.15 for my 1080 Ti...
> 
> My time keeps going up any idea when I would get my actual payout?




My payout has been the 27th since I first started. idk how yours have been going up. :S


----------



## FireFox (Jun 27, 2017)

Mine is today at 11:59 am


----------



## cdawall (Jun 27, 2017)

I haven't stopped mining just remember that the number of bitcoins you get doesn't go down just the value of them. 

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/sapp...cs-card-gx-380-sp.html?campaign=affiliate/tag

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/sapp...cs-card-gx-37x-sp.html?campaign=affiliate/tag

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/sapp...cs-card-gx-381-sp.html?campaign=affiliate/tag

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/sapp...cs-card-gx-37y-sp.html?campaign=affiliate/tag

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/sapp...cs-card-gx-37z-sp.html?campaign=affiliate/tag


----------



## FireFox (Jun 27, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I haven't stopped mining just remember that the number of bitcoins you get doesn't go down just the value of them



You just tell me Does it makes any sense to have 400W+ mining to earn just 2 or 3 coins per day, is it profitable?

Note: @notb don't you sleep

Joke.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 27, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> You just tell me Does it makes any sense to have 400W+ mining to earn just 2 or 3 coins per day, is it profitable?
> 
> Note: @notb don't you sleep
> 
> Joke.



If the price shoots back up to 3K in a week would you be willing to wait? If the answer is no it isn't worth it to you. I am still profitable myself right now.


----------



## LightningJR (Jun 27, 2017)

cdawall said:


> If the price shoots back up to 3K in a week would you be willing to wait? If the answer is no it isn't worth it to you. I am still profitable myself right now.



I am still profitable too. The price per day would have drop to under 40c a day to make me break even. As i only have a single 1070 going and its my main rig idk if the $90 a month is worth the time, thrashing of my gpu or the ability to not be able to use my rig. By all means if your profitable then mine away. I just hope it doesnt kill ur cards before you can replace them. (speculation of course)


----------



## cdawall (Jun 27, 2017)

LightningJR said:


> I am still profitable too. The price per day would have drop to under 40c a day to make me break even. As i only have a single 1070 going and its my main rig idk if the $90 a month is worth the time, thrashing of my gpu or the ability to not be able to use my rig. By all means if your profitable then mine away. I just hope it doesnt kill ur cards before you can replace them. (speculation of course)



They have warranties for a reason. What's funny is my brother doesn't mine at all has a nice 1070 and guess whose card bit the bullet...


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 27, 2017)

I'm still mining with 17.5 rigs. The .5 is cuz #22 keeps going down every 5 hours at my friends house.


----------



## toilet pepper (Jun 27, 2017)

Well nicehash shows its limitation with the bitcoin price dip. Your efforts automatically get converted to bitcoin and not the currency you are mining. 

On another note, they're pre-selling GP-106 mining cards here in the Philippines for $250. Too little too late.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 27, 2017)

toilet pepper said:


> Well nicehash shows its limitation with the bitcoin price dip. Your efforts automatically get converted to bitcoin and not the currency you are mining.
> 
> On another note, they're pre-selling GP-106 mining cards here in the Philippines for $250. Too little too late.



Ethereum percent wise dropped much further than BTC. Remember at the end of the day you are mining the same coin amount so if tomorrow the price of a bitcoin hit 3k it would be no different than if it never dropped.


----------



## notb (Jun 27, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> You just tell me Does it makes any sense to have 400W+ mining to earn just 2 or 3 coins per day, is it profitable?
> 
> Note: @notb don't you sleep



Well... we all hear stories like "I wish I had kept my coins few months ago" and so on...
Earlier I wrote about the uncertain cryptocurrency price behavior and risk of mining. Here you go!. :-D

Overall, not much has changed. As long as PCs earn more than they cost to run, there stills exists a time horizon T at which you'll break even. You're only concern is the GPU lifetime.
Of course @cdawall is mining in US and you're AFAIK in Germany, so there's a big difference in electricity cost and he can accept much larger drops in BTC price.

The interesting part now is the NVIDIA vs AMD comparison. AMD cards mine more, but use more power (and now: cost a lot more). At peak BTC-to-GPU_price moment RX cards where way more profitable. However, at this point GTX1060 should already be pretty close to the RX580 (surely in Germany :-D).

Fundamentally, BTC is still the only cryptocurrency usable in a choice of mainstream stores and nothing huge happened in legislation or technology. If one believes $2.5-3k is a proper value of BTC, then he shouldn't worry about fluctuations.
If one thinks this is a bubble, why invest into this at all? That would be some pretty risky speculation. Looking at how quickly BTC price has grown, it's almost impossible that the bubble would last for another 4+ months (the current ROI for most GPUs).

And I'm in Poland, so it's GMT+2. 



yotano211 said:


> I'm still mining with 17.5 rigs. The .5 is cuz #22 keeps going down every 5 hours at my friends house.


Considering how many GPUs you got, your really don't have a choice, do you?


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 27, 2017)

notb said:


> Well... we all hear stories like "I wish I had kept my coins few months ago" and so on...
> Earlier I wrote about the uncertain cryptocurrency price behavior and risk of mining. Here you go!. :-D
> 
> Overall, not much has changed. As long as PCs earn more than they cost to run, there stills exists a time horizon T at which you'll break even. You're only concern is the GPU lifetime.
> ...


I can actually sell all of the AMD cards I have and make a nice inflated profit on them. I am switching to Nvidia from AMD so I am actually starting to sell everything AMD, there is more to the AMD cards on mining that you dont know. Its called the DAG epoch file. And I have more issues with these **cking AMD cards then ever. No wonder I never buy shitty AMD cards for normal usage.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 27, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> I can actually sell all of the AMD cards I have and make a nice inflated profit on them. I am switching to Nvidia from AMD so I am actually starting to sell everything AMD, there is more to the AMD cards on mining that you dont know. Its called the DAG epoch file. And I have more issues with these **cking AMD cards then ever. No wonder I never buy shitty AMD cards for normal usage.



Why do you think I was so fast to drop using them. Luckily I have gamed on amd for years and knew the work arounds. Hell I have a box of active dp adapters so I can use the bastards remotely lol


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 27, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Why do you think I was so fast to drop using them. Luckily I have gamed on amd for years and knew the work arounds. Hell I have a box of active dp adapters so I can use the bastards remotely lol


I dont buy anything AMD, esp. their graphics card for normal usage. I've had horrible issues with laptop that had AMD cards. And with this DAG file thing coming up, it tells me that AMD drivers are at fault for the massive decrease in hash speed. Again its the stupid shitty AMD drivers that are at fault.


----------



## notb (Jun 27, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> I can actually sell all of the AMD cards I have and make a nice inflated profit on them.


That depends when you got them. Prices in stores are out of control now, but should drop soon enough.
Also there's a huge mistake made by all massive miners, who assume they can always sell the card when mining profits stop. Who will you sell them to? :-D

As long as the cards you have are seen as good for mining, you might as well sell them to another mining farm owner.
But every time a set of GPU stops being usable for mining, there will be a flood of used cards for sell. This oversupply will not only push the used prices down but also lead to *many of them not being sold at all*.


yotano211 said:


> I am switching to Nvidia from AMD so I am actually starting to sell everything AMD


Aren't these AMD cards the ones you've mentioned in this discussion (i.e. you've ordered them in June)? If so, they must have already been hugely expensive and many weeks from ROI.
I hope you analyze this activity well and there is a positive outcome in your magic spreadsheet. :-D

Maybe you have a cheap source for GPUs, but current prices on new GTX cards and latest mining profitability mean that the typical ROI is no longer ~2 months but almost *half a year*.

In the end it's actually irrelevant whether you end up with tens of AMD or NVIDIA cards. You'll struggle to sell them all.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 27, 2017)

notb said:


> Who will you sell them to?



With the second 1080 i will build a backup Gaming Machine, with 1070 i will build a third backup Gaming Machine and with the 2 x 1060 a fourth backup gaming Machine in SLI


----------



## hat (Jun 27, 2017)

The market is volatile. Prices will go up and down. Hang in there, it'll be alright.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jun 27, 2017)

Just wanted to say my payout was successful. Time for steam sale... I'm mean savings 

EDIT: so whats the best way to convert it into USD, without or low fees? Just got a game from steam sale but had to pay like 35% fee with Coinbase BTC Wallet... luckily it was only $3


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 27, 2017)

knoxx29 , you cant sli 1060s mate ,doubt it matters that much but its a bit shit.

im waiting on risers now to finish a decent miner


----------



## cdawall (Jun 27, 2017)

Delta6326 said:


> Just wanted to say my payout was successful. Time for steam sale... I'm mean savings
> 
> EDIT: so whats the best way to convert it into USD, without or low fees? Just got a game from steam sale but had to pay like 35% fee with Coinbase BTC Wallet... luckily it was only $3



What is your fee so high for? Coinbase is one of the cheaper converts.



theoneandonlymrk said:


> knoxx29 , you cant sli 1060s mate ,doubt it matters that much but its a bit shit.
> 
> im waiting on risers now to finish a decent miner



You can with modded drivers...


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 27, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Why do you think I was so fast to drop using them. Luckily I have gamed on amd for years and knew the work arounds. Hell I have a box of active dp adapters so I can use the bastards remotely lol


so the way you and yotano are discussing this raises a question for me, do nvidia cards not use a dag file or do they use it different?

just trying to stay on point nothing else.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 27, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> you cant



Sorry i forgot that.




cdawall said:


> Coinbase is one of the cheaper converts



Yeap, cheap cheap.



Delta6326 said:


> so whats the best way to convert it into USD, without or low fees?



Maybe you should send it to your bank account?





just €0.15 fee, not bad at all


----------



## hat (Jun 27, 2017)

Remember, the BTC you mine stays the same (relative to your hash rate). The value of bitcoin is volatile, that's why the payout numbers are different. You could just keep on mining bitcoin and save it for a later date when it's (hopefully) even more valuable than it is now. I saw a story recently about some big investor guy that thinks bitcoin could be worth $100k each in 10 years. Of course that's speculation and wildly risky, but we all knew it was risky going in.


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## FireFox (Jun 27, 2017)

hat said:


> Remember, the BTC you mine stays the same (relative to your hash rate). The value of bitcoin is volatile, that's why the payout numbers are different. You could just keep on mining bitcoin and save it for a later date when it's (hopefully) even more valuable than it is now. I saw a story recently about some big investor guy that thinks bitcoin could be worth $100k each in 10 years. Of course that's speculation and wildly risky, but we all knew it was risky going in.



Meanwhile i have to pay electricity bill and for sure not from my own pocket


----------



## hat (Jun 27, 2017)

That's what extension cords are for


----------



## verycharbroiled (Jun 27, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> so the way you and yotano are discussing this raises a question for me, do nvidia cards not use a dag file or do they use it different?.



both use the dag and store it in video memory.

apparently nvidia memory layout is different from amds. from what i understand (not much really) with amd once the dag no longer fits in one memory bank there is a huge penalty accessing it. nvidia seems immune to this.


----------



## aGeoM (Jun 27, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Sorry i forgot that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I paid 1.99€ to transfer 50€ from Bitcoin wallet to Euro wallet, and 0.15€ to my bank account. To transfer 53€ had to pay 2.99€ to Euro wallet, this was for the last week. This week I only made 30€, still on my Bitcoin wallet waiting for better days.


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## FireFox (Jun 27, 2017)

hat said:


> That's what extension cords are for



Amazing idea, i should have thought before, wait wait, you mean the cord to hang myself or the one to steal my neighbor's electricty


----------



## cdawall (Jun 27, 2017)

aGeoM said:


> I paid 1.99€ to transfer 50€ from Bitcoin wallet to Euro wallet, and 0.15€ to my bank account. To transfer 53€ had to pay 2.99€ to Euro wallet, this was for the last week. This week I only made 30€, still on my Bitcoin wallet waiting for better days.



Mine was like 2% $30 out of $1330. My bank has no fee for receiving money? What kind of nonsense is that.


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## FireFox (Jun 27, 2017)

cdawall said:


> My bank has no fee for receiving money



Maybe because you are in the USA? for sure, now i hate you


----------



## aGeoM (Jun 27, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Mine was like 2% $30 out of $1330. My bank has no fee for receiving money? What kind of nonsense is that.



Was what they charge me.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 27, 2017)

notb said:


> That depends when you got them. Prices in stores are out of control now, but should drop soon enough.
> Also there's a huge mistake made by all massive miners, who assume they can always sell the card when mining profits stop. Who will you sell them to? :-D
> 
> As long as the cards you have are seen as good for mining, you might as well sell them to another mining farm owner.
> ...



I sell them on ebay, selling on ebay is my full time job, mining is just a hobby. The cards that I mentioned in June where the 1060 3gb that I ran over to Micocenter to pick some up. All AMD cards that I purchased where bought months ago at Best Buy and some from Jet.com when supply was still good. I dont mind if my ROI is half a year, the money I sent on this is "play" money. Its money that I had from selling bitcoin when it increased so much.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 27, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> so the way you and yotano are discussing this raises a question for me, do nvidia cards not use a dag file or do they use it different?
> 
> just trying to stay on point nothing else.


I dont know how the DAG file is affecting the performance of all AMD cards, I dont think anyone knows besides AMD themselves. My theory is how the DAG file writes to the memory chips of AMD cards vs Nvidia cards. I think with AMD, the file is written on some memory chips while with Nvidia its written over all of the memory chips. I think the DAG file is over saturating the memory chips of AMD making them clogged up. The problem is completely drivers issues with AMD.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 27, 2017)

aGeoM said:


> Was what they charge me.
> 
> View attachment 89533



Nope, that's what you get paid


----------



## aGeoM (Jun 27, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Nope, that's what you get paid



Yes, from 50€(Value transferred) - 1.99€ (Fee) = 48.01€ (Euro wallet)

*EDIT *Just a simulation if I transfer 30€ now...


----------



## notb (Jun 27, 2017)

hat said:


> The market is volatile. Prices will go up and down. Hang in there, it'll be alright.


The prices go up and down, but what's the expected price? If you don't have a model, it'll be the current one.
Thing is though: people who bought cards in June (at peak prices) are having second thoughts now.

Just to give you an example: according to nicehash calculator, an ASUS Strix 1060 bought today on amazon.co.uk would break even in... 229 days in Poland (0.13 EUR/kWh) and in 272 days in Germany (0.29 EUR/kWh). Not the best investment I can think of, to be honest.
And nicehash ROI is not calculated on the current profitability, but using a time window. Using current profitability you get some pretty awful numbers (~150% of those above).

Sure, ASUS Strix is not the cheapest of 1060, but by sheer coincidence (obviously :-D) it is among those easiest to obtain at the moment. Similarly, there are quite a lot of MSI Gaming X and Gigabyte G1.

In Poland I could even buy an MSI RX580 Gaming X 8GB! I would get it by the end of the week, cost 550 EU and break even in "just" 191 days (256 for Germany). Well, still better than the 1060! 



hat said:


> You could just keep on mining bitcoin and save it for a later date when it's (hopefully) even more valuable than it is now. I saw a story recently about some big investor guy that thinks bitcoin could be worth $100k each in 10 years. Of course that's speculation and wildly risky, but we all knew it was risky going in.



So now you're just moving from "production" (mining BTC) to speculative trading. But if that's the goal, mining is really pretty much pointless: you're getting too little, too slowly. It would be a better idea to just buy BTC and keep it, if you believe it'll go up.


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## FireFox (Jun 27, 2017)

notb said:


> 0.29 EUR/kWh



From where you got those number


----------



## hat (Jun 27, 2017)

I don't have all this money to just throw down on an investment I won't touch for years, and which also may crash and burn to nothing. By buying mining hardware I'm in the game right now and getting paid right now. Those cards will start paying for themselves as soon as they're installed. After I meet ROI then one could say they'd be making something for nothing. I can earn more than my money's worth by mining, and start making money back (admittedly in small amounts) right away. I can't do that with a long term speculative investment.


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## FireFox (Jun 27, 2017)

Talking about investment.



 

So far i have earned enough to pay for a new power supply, CPU, Risers and the Open Air Mining case and still have some money left.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 27, 2017)

verycharbroiled said:


> both use the dag and store it in video memory.
> 
> apparently nvidia memory layout is different from amds. from what i understand (not much really) with amd once the dag no longer fits in one memory bank there is a huge penalty accessing it. nvidia seems immune to this.


I don't know about that, on polaris and Pascal the Rops are tied to memory controllers just the same afaik, i think the epoch increase degradation effects both but if you have a link id love to read it?.
I think people mean the smaller I and D cache in amd designs ,and while it is valid ,it isn't happening yet and id argue the blockchain hasn't fitted in that ever.
The algorithm and data used could become unwieldy in time but imho their are other things to mine and im not too deeply entrenched in all thats Amd ,I will mix it up personally.
I suppose it depends on your outlook though , i would pay the bill to earn imaginary money on the chance it goes big , but I would try to choose wisely or experiment intelligently.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jun 27, 2017)

cdawall said:


> What is your fee so high for? Coinbase is one of the cheaper converts...



Steam uses BitPay, I scanned the QR code from my pc steam checkout and it charged me that fee.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 27, 2017)

Way better


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## verycharbroiled (Jun 27, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> I don't know about that, on polaris and Pascal the Rops are tied to memory controllers just the same afaik, i think the epoch increase degradation effects both but if you have a link id love to read it?.
> I think people mean the smaller I and D cache in amd designs ,and while it is valid ,it isn't happening yet and id argue the blockchain hasn't fitted in that ever.
> The algorithm and data used could become unwieldy in time but imho their are other things to mine and im not too deeply entrenched in all thats Amd ,I will mix it up personally.
> I suppose it depends on your outlook though , i would pay the bill to earn imaginary money on the chance it goes big , but I would try to choose wisely or experiment intelligently.



no link that was conjecture by some folks at bitcointalk (a miner coder if i remember correctly). if i find it ill post the link 

claymore of dual miner fame isnt sure why thats happening but he did state the amd driver developers are aware of it.

the r9 390 doesnt seem to be effected by dag size, just the rx series.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 27, 2017)

verycharbroiled said:


> no link that was conjecture by some folks at bitcointalk (a miner coder if i remember correctly). if i find it ill post the link
> 
> claymore of dual miner fame isnt sure why thats happening but he did state the amd driver developers are aware of it.
> 
> the r9 390 doesnt seem to be effected by dag size, just the rx series.


I think I read the same thing , thats where i got the input and output cache info from , a fair few people have money on it we definitely Will see eh.


----------



## notb (Jun 27, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> From where you got those number


Precisely from a friend in Munich, but every source I've seen gives an estimate around 0,3+/-0,02 EUR/kWh.
E.g. EUROSTAT: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Electricity_price_statistics

How much do you pay?


hat said:


> I don't have all this money to just throw down on an investment I won't touch for years, and which also may crash and burn to nothing. By buying mining hardware I'm in the game right now and getting paid right now. Those cards will start paying for themselves as soon as they're installed.


Your mining rig could also "crash and burn to nothing". And actually even by mining you're speculating on the coin value.
Simple trading of coins is so much easier technically, so much less time-consuming and irritating in everyday life.


Knoxx29 said:


> So far i have earned enough to pay for a new power supply, CPU, Risers and the Open Air Mining case and still have some money left.


I have to ask: you've earned or you got paid?
By "earning" I mean having covered the initial investment (buying parts and so on) and costs (electricity and other). If you're already past that, you're actually earning money.
I can't stop thinking that people forget about covering the costs first. They build a mining rig and, once it makes enough cash, they buy more gear for mining. It's a constant loop of extending the mining farm which means they're losing money, not earning it.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 27, 2017)

notb said:


> How much do you pay



I used to pay 26c now i am paying just 21,48c.



notb said:


> I have to ask: you've earned or you got paid? By "earning" I mean having covered the initial investment (buying parts and so on) and costs (electricity and other). If you're already past that, you're actually earning money.
> I can't stop thinking that people forget about covering the costs first. They build a mining rig and, once it makes enough cash, they buy more gear for mining. It's a constant loop of extending the mining farm which means they're losing money, not earning it.



What i meant is that i got paid enough to cover some of the investment i have done + electricity bill and i still have some money left, to cover what i have invested it will takes 3/months.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 27, 2017)

Turned off my miner for right now due to the heatwave, but considering I invested nothing, I earned an easy 10 bucks.

Will try to raise that higher later.  I plan to just sit on it anyways, in hopes that Ethereum spikes.  Nice when your "initial investment" is just stuff you have lying around, and thus, 0.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 27, 2017)

I'm still doing good, even with this heatwave in my town. I am spending more time at the girlfriend's house.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 27, 2017)

notb said:


> Precisely from a friend in Munich, but every source I've seen gives an estimate around 0,3+/-0,02 EUR/kWh.
> E.g. EUROSTAT: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Electricity_price_statistics
> 
> How much do you pay?
> ...


That's why i write it off as Toys ,then after the elecy bills paid its magic money that sometimes shits itself , i lost £39 speculating on efin Litecoin ill be more careful / less daft next time , it's fun though i just ordered two 1060s to Play with Joy and anyway even I couldn't reason buying this many Toys if they didn't try to pay their way.


----------



## hat (Jun 27, 2017)

notb said:


> Your mining rig could also "crash and burn to nothing". And actually even by mining you're speculating on the coin value.
> Simple trading of coins is so much easier technically, so much less time-consuming and irritating in everyday life.



I expected you to make that argument.

Thing is, in ~2 months after I receive my cards I'll more than hit ROI, at which point, I can continue generating bitcoin for nothing. If I spent the same money by just buying bitcoin, then the only thing I'd have is to play the stock market game, trying to buy low and sell high to make a buck. At least with my mining hardware, there is always potential, and I don't have to pay so much attention to prices as I would if all I did was just buy bitcoin. I'm constantly generating more bitcoin on my own.



theoneandonlymrk said:


> That's why i write it off as Toys ,then after the elecy bills paid its magic money that sometimes shits itself , i lost £39 speculating on efin Litecoin ill be more careful / less daft next time , it's fun though i just ordered two 1060s to Play with Joy and anyway even I couldn't reason buying this many Toys if they didn't try to pay their way.



That's one way to look at it. It's best to be able to look at it as "play money", but I take it very seriously. I would have never upgraded a damn thing in my PC in the next 2 years if it wasn't for bitcoin, and I'm sure I'd never have a graphics card as powerful as a GTX1070 either. Like I said before, I could care less about gaming on these cards. My 660ti is still good as gold for gaming (for me) at this time. I took a big risk and I hope it all pans out, but I really feel potential here. For me, it's more than just a hobby or something to do for fun, it's serious business and I hope to be able to alleviate some debts thanks to it.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 27, 2017)

hat said:


> I expected you to make that argument.
> 
> Thing is, in ~2 months after I receive my cards I'll more than hit ROI, at which point, I can continue generating bitcoin for nothing. If I spent the same money by just buying bitcoin, then the only thing I'd have is to play the stock market game, trying to buy low and sell high to make a buck. At least with my mining hardware, there is always potential, and I don't have to pay so much attention to prices as I would if all I did was just buy bitcoin. I'm constantly generating more bitcoin on my own.


No mate Everone should just go out and buy them , buy loads for the next few years buy loafds everyone.


----------



## hat (Jun 27, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> No mate Everone should just go out and buy them , buy loads for the next few years buy loafs everyone.


I'd much rather generate them on my own than play that game. The way I see it I'm paying roughly $900 for a pretty good chance of making that back in 3 months (admittedly I made an error in my last post when I said 2 months) and then some, as long as I wish to continue mining. It's like if I bought 100 shares of AMD, it'll always be 100 shares of AMD unless I bought or sold some. Doing it my way, I'm slowly generating shares of AMD over time. In 3 months I'll have 100 shares of AMD, and from that point on that can continue to grow well past the original investment.


----------



## toilet pepper (Jun 27, 2017)

I got my first payout last night. I haven't converted it to "real" money yet but I got around $30 leaving my PC on while at work or simply sleeping on it. Not bad since I don't have any ROI but the electricity cost here is a horrendous $0.20 kwh though.


----------



## fullinfusion (Jun 28, 2017)

My first post in this thread btw. 

I'd like to thank all of ya for the heaps of info that you've all shared.. I've learned more here then anywhere else


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## FireFox (Jun 28, 2017)

All this arrive tomorrow/ in a few hours


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 28, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> All this arrive tomorrow/ in a few hours
> 
> View attachment 89576
> View attachment 89575


Whatz you going to do with them goodies.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 28, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Whatz you going to do with them goodies.



Guess


----------



## hat (Jun 28, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Whatz you going to do with them goodies.


We can only wonder... maybe he wants to crush them up, mix them in with some ground beef and make delicious hamburgers out of it! I heard ASUS brand video cards make a better hamburger seasoning than EVGA though...


----------



## FireFox (Jun 28, 2017)

Those are free hardware, where i work ( Airport ) we get a shopping card and every year we get 1500€ bonus, but you cant withdraw that money you can just buy in some stores, local and online.


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## yotano211 (Jun 28, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Guess


Watch porn at 8k?


----------



## hat (Jun 28, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Those are free hardware, where i work ( Airport ) we get a shopping card and every year we get 1500€ bonus, but you cant withdraw that money you can just buy in some stores, local and online.


Good way to spend that money IMO. Let the restricted bonus money make money for you.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 28, 2017)

Now I am at a crossroads I just snagged another 480 and I am trying to decide if I should flash the BIOS and make it mine or sell it on ebay lol


----------



## hat (Jun 28, 2017)

Sell it and put it towards another GTX1070?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 28, 2017)

That is exactly what I am thinking. I just sold another 390X for over $400 and as soon as that clears I might start putting my 1060's up.


----------



## hat (Jun 28, 2017)

It's best to go with the most efficient stuff if you're able to.

Has anyone thought about mining on a quadro or tesla card? What about titan?


----------



## notb (Jun 28, 2017)

hat said:


> I expected you to make that argument.
> 
> Thing is, in ~2 months after I receive my cards I'll more than hit ROI


Are you sure? Have you actually calculated this?
If so, you must be getting your cards very cheaply. As I've already mentioned in this discussion, current ROI is over half a year (based on hash rates from nicehash calculator).



hat said:


> If I spent the same money by just buying bitcoin, then the only thing I'd have is to play the stock market game, trying to buy low and sell high to make a buck. At least with my mining hardware, there is always potential, and I don't have to pay so much attention to prices as I would if all I did was just buy bitcoin. I'm constantly generating more bitcoin on my own.


Actually you're doing exactly the same thing. 
You still should "buy low" (you buy GPUs - their price should are somehow correlated to mining profitability) and you should "sell high" (cash out when BTC is expensive).
It's just that your risk model is way more complicated, because it also includes the possible failure of GPU (which might even not survive ROI period). And you have many other costs.

BTW: Real-world mining companies also buy a lot of investment products (e.g. options on currency rates and the thing they're mining). :-D



hat said:


> I took a big risk and I hope it all pans out, but I really feel potential here.


People would not take risk if they didn't see any potential.
For me the risk is huge.
I try to keep a fairly low-risk, diversified investment portfolio and this was not acceptable. I was actually reluctant to buy a single powerful GPU for my PC, let alone getting a purpose-built mining rig. I definitely prefer investing in stocks or even FOREX.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 28, 2017)

notb said:


> let alone getting a purpose-built mining rig.


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Jun 28, 2017)

I gave up on the mining idea, it was not worth it to me...in UK the electricity is expensive. For around 30£ profit a month I don't really see the point ( in my case )


----------



## FireFox (Jun 28, 2017)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> I gave up on the mining idea, it was not worth it to me...in UK the electricity is expensive. For around 30£ profit a month I don't really see the point ( in my case )



30£ net, how expensive is the electricity?


----------



## TXST Guardian (Jun 28, 2017)

cdawall said:


> That is exactly what I am thinking. I just sold another 390X for over $400 and as soon as that clears I might start putting my 1060's up.


I'm going to be looking to buy some 1060's soon. Let me know if/where you post them.


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Jun 28, 2017)

I think it is around 0.2£ per Kwh


----------



## FireFox (Jun 28, 2017)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> I think it is around 0.2£ per Kwh



0.2£ or 0.20£,


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Jun 28, 2017)

You realise that is the same thing?


----------



## FireFox (Jun 28, 2017)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> You realise that is the same thing?



If that is the same thing how do you write two cents?


----------



## TXST Guardian (Jun 28, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> If that is the same thing how do you write two cents?


.20 for 20 cents .02 for 2 cents


----------



## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Jun 28, 2017)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> I think it is around 0.2£ per Kwh




Mine is 19 pence per k/h which is 0.22 Euro or 25 cents


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Jun 28, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> If that is the same thing how do you write two cents?





TXST Guardian said:


> .20 for 20 cents .02 for 2 cents


 What he said


----------



## FireFox (Jun 28, 2017)

Now let's forget the 02/20 cents or whatever it is, so @Liviu Cojocaru what card are you using and does it mine 24/7?


----------



## TXST Guardian (Jun 28, 2017)

Would there be any advantages to running a setup with two PSU's over one ? Power wise as I'm sure a good gold rated 1000w+ will have plenty of cables I need. I only plan on running 4-5 1060's. If I decide to do 1070's then 3 for now. 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.3519124

This combo deal is why I'm confused btw, it's about the cost of one good PSU


----------



## dorsetknob (Jun 28, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> If that is the same thing how do you write two cents?



*Liviu Cojocaru* is resident in the UK
we don't use Cents 
Its Pounds (£ ) and pence ( P )



Knoxx29 said:


> Now let's forget the 02/20 cents or whatever it is,



""look after the penny's and the pounds take care of themselves" you never forget or ignore the penny's


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 28, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Now I am at a crossroads I just snagged another 480 and I am trying to decide if I should flash the BIOS and make it mine or sell it on ebay lol


I would sell it on ebay, I am getting rid of AMD cards at 2 per day.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 28, 2017)

TXST Guardian said:


> Would there be any advantages to running a setup with two PSU's over one ? Power wise as I'm sure a good gold rated 1000w+ will have plenty of cables I need. I only plan on running 4-5 1060's. If I decide to do 1070's then 3 for now.
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.3519124
> 
> This combo deal is why I'm confused btw, it's about the cost of one good PSU



So far i have seen 6 cards mining rig and they use 2 x 750W PSU's, the mining Machine i am building has 4 cards and i am using 2 PSUs one 750W for a 1080 and 1070 and one 650W for 2 x 1060.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 28, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> So far i have seen 6 cards mining rig and they use 2 x 750W PSU's, the mining Machine i am building has 4 cards and i am using 2 PSUs one 750W for a 1080 and 1070 and one 650W for 2 x 1060.


1k watt psu can power all of that easily.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 28, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> 1k watt psu can power all of that easily.



I know but because i am almost sure i will replace the 1060 and maybe even the 1070 that's why i have 2 PSUs.


----------



## TXST Guardian (Jun 28, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> So far i have seen 6 cards mining rig and they use 2 x 750W PSU's, the mining Machine i am building has 4 cards and i am using 2 PSUs one 750W for a 1080 and 1070 and one 650W for 2 x 1060.


Okay, so pretty much just more power. That's what I figured I just couldn't find a solid reason why I would want 2 PSU's over 1 as long as I have sufficient power delivered to the cards I plan on using.


----------



## hat (Jun 28, 2017)

Depends on the power requirements. I guess I would if I had to, but I'd prefer one big bastard PSU over two.

Anyone remember the little 5.25 power supply that was specifically for powering your graphics card?


----------



## FireFox (Jun 28, 2017)

hat said:


> Anyone remember the little 5.25 power supply that was specifically for powering your graphics card?



Sorry i am too young ( 38 ) to remember that


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 28, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> I know but because i am almost sure i will replace the 1060 and maybe even the 1070 that's why i have 2 PSUs.


I saw this guy on youtube power 8 1070s with 814 power draw from a 1k psu. He power throttled it down and still got nice hashing speed.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 28, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> I saw this guy on youtube power 8 1070s with 814 power draw from a 1k psu. He power throttled it down and still got nice hashing speed.



I like the idea to see 2 PSUs in my Mining Machine better said i will see 2 PSU's


----------



## hat (Jun 28, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Sorry i am too young ( 38 ) to remember that


These were somewhat recent, within the last 10 years for sure. I think at best it had 2 pci-e 6 pins...



Knoxx29 said:


> I like the idea to see 2 PSUs in my Mining Machine better said i will see 2 PSU's


It's probably better to get one big ass power supply.


----------



## notb (Jun 28, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


>


I wanted to say that you can do mining essentially in 2 ways (but with (*) bonus)
1) Do it using your normal PC (that you use for everything else), so on the single GPU you have inside
1*) if possible, you can put more GPUs in your desktop just for mining
2) Get a - how I called it - purpose-built mining rig. I mean: a separate desktop that's only purpose is to run mining 24/7.

So (1) is pretty straightforward - your only cost is electricity and faster hardware wear (I'm putting extra heat and noise aside).
(1*) is just like (1), but you're actually investing money into GPUs - now it's not just simple making extra cash by leaving your PC on - you have to think about ROI and so on.
However, (2) is a big commitment, because it takes a lot of space, produces a lot of heat and noise. Also the maintenance complications are much higher.

So what I meant is: I don't find (2) to be attractive at all in my case. I don't have time to worry about these rigs, I don't have a place to keep them (I live in a flat). And that's despite the fact that I'm in PL, so electricity is pretty cheap and - more importantly - the relative value of 1 EUR for me could be 4x more than for you in DE.



CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> Mine is 19 pence per k/h which is 0.22 Euro or 25 cents


That is quite a lot, to be honest. Did prices go up in UK compared to 2016 or maybe you have a relatively expensive supplier?
Once again, according to EUROSTAT data (http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Electricity_price_statistics) for UK one kWh had costed (mid-year prices in GBP):
2014: 0,160
2015: 0,152
2016: 0,151


Knoxx29 said:


> Now let's forget the 02/20 cents or whatever it is





Knoxx29 said:


> Those are free hardware, where i work ( Airport ) we get a shopping card and every year we get 1500€ bonus, but you cant withdraw that money you can just buy in some stores, local and online.


*I don't get the math behind some of your posts.*
Electricity cost is one of the more severe in coin mining (especially for those not very limited by space). Depending on card efficiency and electricity price it will consume a lot of mining revenue. For a GTX1060 in US that could be as low as 10% (but still a lot of money). For an RX580 in UK (based on price mentioned by @CAPSLOCKSTUCK ) it would be around 30%.
And that's just the GPU - the rest of the rig also draws power. And then there's the PSU efficiency...
I'm sorry to say, but, since Germany has one of the highest electricity prices in Europe, it is quite possible that electricity cost will consume even as much as 50% of your mining inflows.

But even more importantly: how can you say that this is "free hardware"?! You get part of your salary in a form of a voucher. This is real money. You've spent it on PC stuff, so you can't buy something else.

This is exactly what I'm afraid of when listening to some coin mining "adventures". People don't consider electricity costs at all ("I pay high bills anyway"), they don't analyze GPU amortization and they don't control the actual result on this investment.
What I mean is: if someone is putting all of his mining revenue into getting more mining hardware (which seems to be a very popular approach), he's not making ANY money at all. In financial terms he's just increasing equity (the value of his "company"). When mining boom stops (GPUs stop being profitable) he'll be left with a huge _Insolvenzmasse _with very low value (as we know that used GPUs will become very cheap). And of course he'll also have a huge electricity bill to pay.


----------



## verycharbroiled (Jun 28, 2017)

hat said:


> Depends on the power requirements. I guess I would if I had to, but I'd prefer one big bastard PSU over two.
> 
> Anyone remember the little 5.25 power supply that was specifically for powering your graphics card?



you mean those aux power supplies that mounted in a 5.25 inch bay? never used one but i remember adds for them.

also im about to go with a 1200 watt HP server supply with breakout board and a pico psu that is also powered by the breakou board so i only need the one server psu to run mobo and cards.

my current evga g2 850 is running at 700 watts from the wall dual mining with a 390, 2 470s and 460. so to add another card (thinking of a 1070) it will be too much.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 28, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> I would sell it on ebay, I am getting rid of AMD cards at 2 per day.



Haha I got another one for $200 today. Trying to decide if I should sell it too. No bites on ebay with the other one yet. Makes me nervous the bubble is almost dead, but it's also only been like 12hrs haha


----------



## FireFox (Jun 29, 2017)

notb said:


> You get part of your salary in a form of a voucher. This is real money. You've spent it on PC stuff, so you can't buy something else.



It has nothing to do with my salary, it is just a bonus i get because in a year a never missed one day at work and i wasn't late, simple, you are right maybe i should spend it buying something else but the fact is that the bonus from last year i never used because i didn't need anything and the same this year and if i didn't buy  hardware with that money i don't know for how long i wouldn't use it.



notb said:


> This is exactly what I'm afraid of when listening to some coin mining "adventures".People don't consider electricity costs at all



Not in my case, i bought what i needed and now i am done, now it is time to let the Mining Machine run and make a few €, believe me i do consider electricity costs, to run a 1080,1070 and 2 x 1060 cost me around 1100€ yearly, on Monday i will let you know how much exactly i should pay yearly.



notb said:


> if someone is putting all of his mining revenue into getting more mining hardware (which seems to be a very popular approach),



I wouldn't do that, that is stupidity, what i get paid is for the Electricity bill and the rest i save it.

According to some calculations i have done i should earn around +5,619.96€ -1100€ electricity cost 4519.96€ net, that is running 4 GPUs without the 1080 Classified.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 29, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Haha I got another one for $200 today. Trying to decide if I should sell it too. No bites on ebay with the other one yet. Makes me nervous the bubble is almost dead, but it's also only been like 12hrs haha


I only do auctions, but make sure that your account has good amount of feedback for that.


----------



## HammerON (Jun 29, 2017)

hat said:


> Depends on the power requirements. I guess I would if I had to, but I'd prefer one big bastard PSU over two.
> 
> Anyone remember the little 5.25 power supply that was specifically for powering your graphics card?


I used to have this one:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153037

I cannot remember what year...  Was either 2007 or 2008.

I almost bought three1070's the other day to start mining, but I just couldn't rationalize that this "trend" will continue.  It may and I will wish I had or it may not.  Plus, my wife would have not been happy


----------



## LightningJR (Jun 29, 2017)

HammerON said:


> I used to have this one:
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153037
> 
> I cannot remember what year...  Was either 2007 or 2008.
> ...






I started on the 17th mining using nicehash. At the start nicehash was reporting ~$5.50 a day and it fluctuated up and down but not too much. On the 23rd it as at $4.50 a day, it took a while (6 days) On the 26th it hit an all time low of $2.60 a day, this was only 3 days after I couldn't believe how quickly it had dove. Right now as I type it's back up to $3.68 a day and while not as stable as when I first started it is improving once again.

This is the information I can give you to make a decision on whether or not to start mining. My payout was $40USD after ~10 days, I used it to buy some games in the Steam summer sale. I was pretty happy about it to be frank. 

Here in Canada a 1070 costs $50 less than a 1080, if this is the case where you are I would just buy 1080s and mine Zcash. Plus you'll have 1080s instead of 1070s 



I have been considering selling my 1070 and buying a 1080 I wonder how much I could get for it atm.


----------



## hat (Jun 29, 2017)

The market is volatile, yes, but I believe there's money to be made if I hang in.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 29, 2017)

So far i have been paid 4 times and since i am mining i have noticed that two days before payments Ethereum and bitcoin goes down drastically and the day after goes back to normal, what a coincidence, am i hallucinating? WTF.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 29, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> I only do auctions, but make sure that your account has good amount of feedback for that.



I have almost 200 and an "above average seller" rating so I am not horribly worried that is the reason. I am getting 30MH/s out of the powercolor I flashed it isn't that bad especially only pulling about 90W.


----------



## hat (Jun 29, 2017)

Is there any worthwhile BIOS flashing for GTX1070? What happens if I flash a card with a bios from another vendor?


----------



## stinger608 (Jun 29, 2017)

hat said:


> What happens if I flash a card with a bios from another vendor?



Kind of obvious.........Isn't it? 











*Bhahahahha*


----------



## hat (Jun 29, 2017)

Maybe not that extreme... but I'm sure it's possible. People have flashed cards to different models before. Since there's no Pascal bios editor...

Doesn't AMD have some issue with flashing BIOS now as well? I've edited every vbios I've ever had since I had that 8500gt long long ago...


----------



## notb (Jun 29, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> It has nothing to do with my salary, it is just a bonus i get because in a year a never missed one day at work and i wasn't late, simple, you are right maybe i should spend it buying something else but the fact is that the bonus from last year i never used because i didn't need anything and the same this year and if i didn't buy  hardware with that money i don't know for how long i wouldn't use it.


It might not be included in your employment contract, but it's still a cost for the employer, so it's a form of payment.
Companies choose to cut a bit from everyone's salaries and put them into motivation programs or bonuses. It's a common practice and it works well.
The bonus you got is also taxed - just like your salary (possibly using the same rates as well). Sadly, I don't know how Income Tax is regulated in Germany - maybe your employer calculates everything for you and fills tax forms, so you're not even aware of this fact.


----------



## Raevenlord (Jun 29, 2017)

LightningJR said:


> I started on the 17th mining using nicehash. At the start nicehash was reporting ~$5.50 a day and it fluctuated up and down but not too much. On the 23rd it as at $4.50 a day, it took a while (6 days) On the 26th it hit an all time low of $2.60 a day, this was only 3 days after I couldn't believe how quickly it had dove. Right now as I type it's back up to $3.68 a day and while not as stable as when I first started it is improving once again.



Remember that profitability calculators also take into account current crypto/USD rates. So if there's a dip in crypto value, your calculated profits will take a dip as well.

That's not what you should focus on, though. Remember that dips have reversals (like this last one is already doing), so so long as you're mining at the same hashrate, your earnings will not be affected by these (even though profitability calculators say so.) Just HODL until pricing climbs back up again. That's what I'm doing.

Difficulty of the network is much more relevant for your earnings than calculated profits based on crypto/USD ratio. Your 2.5 mined Ether/ZEC will fluctuate with the valuation... Not so much if you can only mine 1.5 instead.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 29, 2017)

notb said:


> Companies choose to cut a bit from everyone's salaries and put them into motivation programs or bonuses.



I would understand that if it was a small company but the third biggest Airport in Europe ( where i work ) i don't think they need to cut anyone salary to give us a few €


----------



## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Jun 29, 2017)

It is done because it is cheaper than covering the cost of absence.

When i was at Heathrow 12 years ago it was £ 800.00 per year for full attendance.


----------



## toilet pepper (Jun 29, 2017)

stinger608 said:


> Kind of obvious.........Isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I've flashed my 1070 Palit Gamerock with several different bios. Including Strix OC, Super Jetsream, Gigabyte G1, Gainward Phoenix GLH. I've used it to check if there's any help if the power limit is higher. The answer is NO --- it doesn't matter.


----------



## notb (Jun 29, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> I would understand that if it was a small company but the third biggest Airport in Europe ( where i work ) i don't think they need to cut anyone salary to give us a few €


I meant that a company has a payroll budget and it can be realized in many different ways. Some companies simply pay you a fixed salary. Some include bonuses and so on.
The money you got is - as @CAPSLOCKSTUCK described - a motivation program to keep you at work as much as possible.

Going back to he actual matter we discuss: this is money you've earned, your disposable income. You can't say that you just got some PC parts for free and hence your mining is 100% profitable, because you didn't have any initial costs.
That would only be true if they'd miraculously materialized at your home and noone would want to buy them from you. 
Check this out because it might just be that you're not making a fortune on mining at all. That you'd be better off not investing into mining at all and keeping that €1500. 



Raevenlord said:


> That's not what you should focus on, though. Remember that dips have reversals (like this last one is already doing), so so long as you're mining at the same hashrate, your earnings will not be affected by these (even though profitability calculators say so.) Just HODL until pricing climbs back up again. That's what I'm doing.


Not true.
We don't have a good model for pricing cryptocurrencies. There isn't much in a way of fundaments. As such, the best estimation you can do is just expecting the current price to stay unchanged.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 29, 2017)

notb said:


> That you'd be better off not investing into mining at all and keeping that €1500.



As said before, i have all hardware i needed and i don't plan to invest more money in mining Machines.


----------



## hat (Jun 29, 2017)

I'm pretty sure everyone involved understands there's a start up cost and electricity costs money. Some of us do it for fun but some of us are actually trying to earn money. If I reach ROI and then decide to use some profits after that so I can earn more money by having more hardware mining for me, what's the harm? Because I spent another $xxx on hardware? I'd be doing that to earn more than what I can with what I currently have. That too will reach ROI in time and start earning money for me as well, and I'll be better off for it in the future than if I hadn't.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 29, 2017)

hat said:


> I'm pretty sure everyone involved understands there's a start up cost and electricity costs money. Some of us do it for fun but some of us are actually trying to earn money. If I reach ROI and then decide to use some profits after that so I can earn more money by having more hardware mining for me, what's the harm? Because I spent another $xxx on hardware? I'd be doing that to earn more than what I can with what I currently have. That too will reach ROI in time and start earning money for me as well, and I'll be better off for it in the future than if I hadn't.



Fully agree with you, i think the same way.



hat said:


> Some of us do it for fun but some of us are actually trying to earn money.



I am doing it for fun, i said that from the beginning.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 29, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Fully agree with you, i think the same way.
> 
> 
> 
> I am doing it for fun, i said that from the beginning.


I do it for fun really, its just a hobby for me. Expect for 2 machines, resetting those 2 machines 3 times a day is a job now, all of the others stay up for weeks.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 30, 2017)

I love boxes




 

But even more what it's inside


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 30, 2017)

It's catching , I've a busy weekend


----------



## FireFox (Jun 30, 2017)

The CPU arrived today but i was at work so i have to go tomorrow to the post office to pick it up, still waiting for the risers, it will takes 2 weeks before they arrive, till then i will run the Mining Machine like this:


 

But instead the 1060 i will add the 1080.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 30, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> The CPU arrived today but i was at work so i have to go tomorrow to the post office to pick it up, still waiting for the risers, it will takes 2 weeks before they arrive, till then i will run the Mining Machine like this:
> View attachment 89649
> 
> But instead the 1060 i will add the 1080.


I just got three 1060s, ive been waiting for four 580s for a month on preorder at Amazon, must be some list they have , riser's ,,damn ill probably need some eh tut. Forgot,


----------



## FireFox (Jun 30, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> riser's ,,damn ill probably need some eh tut. Forgot,



I have to wait as said before 2 weeks because i found them just in China


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 30, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> I have to wait as said before 2 weeks because i found them just in China


I did order some just not for my rig , i did get a cheeky pciex 1 to two x 16 adapter so i can probably fudge along until i get some fishtank money together then they're all single slot i hope.
But i just thought of that after buying a fair few cards so I've probably not got A single height card, i mean bare pcb single slot tut.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 30, 2017)

Hi Lads.

I have two questions.

First, would a 750W power supply enough for a 1080/1070 and 2 x 1060?

Second, if the answer above is yes how can i connect all 4 to a single power supply?

I asked the second question because the 750W power supply it has just 4 x 6+2 pins enough just for the 1070 that uses 2 x 8 pins the 1080 that uses 1 x 8 pins and one 1060 that uses 1 x 6 pins, there's one 1060 left without cables.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 30, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Hi Lads.
> 
> I have two questions.
> 
> ...


Personally id get a one to two pciex power splitter and give the 1070 a split feed ,then you have your one spare back , strange that the 1070 wants two but the 1080 only one, i doubt that you will run the 1070 that hard if mining to need two connectors on it.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 30, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Personally id get a one to two pciex power splitter and give the 1070 a split feed ,then you have your one spare back , strange that the 1070 wants two but the 1080 only one, i doubt that you will run the 1070 that hard if mining to need two connectors on it.



1070 FTW 



 


1080 Superclocked 





As you said strange


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 30, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> 1070 FTW
> 
> View attachment 89655
> 
> ...


Should be fine on a power splitter at 220watts though mate.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 30, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Should be fine on a power splitter at 220watts though mate.



Power splitter are 6 pins to 2 x 8 pins or 6 pins to 2 x 6 pins, i am confused about what you said.

I can't power a 1070 with this here:


----------



## Outback Bronze (Jun 30, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Power splitter are 6 pins to 2 x 8 pins or 6 pins to 2 x 6 pins, i am confused about what you said.
> 
> I can't power a 1070 with this here:



Gday mate,

What about molex to PCI-e?

Like this one bud 



Edit: First, would a 750W power supply enough for a 1080/1070 and 2 x 1060?

I am currently (mining) running 2x 1080's and 2x 1080 Ti's on an 1200w and only pulling 580w.

I have lowered the power limit on these cards to 50%. If you find that the power it getting too close to your 750w limit, just dog down the power limit a little on your cards to like 80% or what ever your comfortable with.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 30, 2017)

Outback Bronze said:


> Gday mate,
> 
> What about molex to PCI-e?
> 
> Like this one bud



What about powering the 2 x 1060 with a splitter?


----------



## hat (Jun 30, 2017)

You're better off with a molex to pcie adapter than a splitter (assuming splitter means you're splitting a single pcie into two). At least that way you're not artificially forcing a single pcie to power more than it's supposed to handle.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 30, 2017)

hat said:


> You're better off with a molex to pcie adapter than a splitter (assuming splitter means you're splitting a single pcie into two). At least that way you're not artificially forcing a single pcie to power more than it's supposed to handle.


I agree to a degree except hes mining with it ,it wont pull max watts thats why i suggested that but molex to pciex will work.
And i suggested the 1070 because that second 8pin is for oc headroom mostly as 1x 8pin plus pciex slot power should be fine with 215 watts ,two 8 pin is likely overkill especially while mining.


----------



## FireFox (Jun 30, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> i suggested the 1070 because that second 8pin is for oc headroom mostly as 1x 8pin plus pciex slot power should be fine with 215 watts ,two 8 pin is likely overkill especially while mining.



I am not saying that i don't believe you or i doubt it but i would like that at least 2 more people confirm that.


----------



## r9 (Jun 30, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Hi Lads.
> 
> I have two questions.
> 
> ...


I run one 1070 and two 1060 on 650w just fine.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 30, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> I agree to a degree except hes mining with it ,it wont pull max watts



Doesn't mining pull a lot of power?


----------



## ChristTheGreat (Jun 30, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Doesn't mining pull a lot of power?



depends on what GPU you use and how you clock them..

My GTX 1060 pull 70w while mining, my RX580 goes to 80w


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 30, 2017)

I'm pulling somewhere in the region of 15,000 watts across 3 houses. I'm crazy!!!...


----------



## cdawall (Jun 30, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Doesn't mining pull a lot of power?



The way you setup for mining mostly involves tweaking ram settings and maximizing bandwidth while minimizing GPU wattage.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 30, 2017)

cdawall said:


> The way you setup for mining mostly involves tweaking ram settings and maximizing bandwidth while minimizing GPU wattage.



Yeah, it's changed a lot since I mined.  Things didn't give a shit about tweaking ram settings back then, clocks were king and you just found a simple core clock that seemed more or less efficient.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 30, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Yeah, it's changed a lot since I mined.  Things didn't give a shit about tweaking ram settings back then, clocks were king and you just found a simple core clock that seemed more or less efficient.



Yea LBRY seems to like core clock, but zcash and ethereum seem to prefer memory.


----------



## LightningJR (Jun 30, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> I am not saying that i don't believe you or i doubt it but i would like that at least 2 more people confirm that.



If you're going balls to the wall with your clocks/power %/voltage then the extra 8 pin might be required but if you're like me and just maxed out the mem clock and lowered the power % then thentheoneandonlymrk is correct. I just don't know if the GPU will allow you to have only one 8 pin slot populated.


----------



## dhklopp (Jun 30, 2017)

Hi peeps new member.  Is there any point giving this a bash with my 980ti which seems to be power hungry?  I'm paying Unit Rate  9.4000p/kWh at the min for my leccy.


----------



## cdawall (Jul 1, 2017)

dhklopp said:


> Hi peeps new member.  Is there any point giving this a bash with my 980ti which seems to be power hungry?  I'm paying Unit Rate  9.4000p/kWh at the min for my leccy.



I don't know what that works out into usd. They right now do about 400-450 sol/s and consume 225-250w or so.


----------



## dhklopp (Jul 1, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I don't know what that works out into usd. They right now do about 400-450 sol/s and consume 225-250w or so.


 It's about 12.5 I think at the going rate.


----------



## cdawall (Jul 1, 2017)

dhklopp said:


> It's about 12.5 I think at the going rate.



Here is a pair of gigabyte windforce cards at 1440/3880. This is two cards and the market is low remember that.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 1, 2017)

Finally the CPU.


----------



## hat (Jul 1, 2017)

Still waiting on my 1070s


----------



## FireFox (Jul 1, 2017)

hat said:


> Still waiting on my 1070s




You are not the only one waiting, i am still waiting for the risers.


----------



## LightningJR (Jul 1, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Here is a pair of gigabyte windforce cards at 1440/3880. This is two cards and the market is low remember that.



On my 1070 I get 93% of the sols/s with 73% of the power used when I drop power % to 75%. If you're looking for more efficiency with a small drop in mining speed you could do that.

445 Sol/s
170 Watts
120% Power // +550 Mem // +100 V // +30 Core

415 Sols/s
125 Watts
75% Power // +550 Mem


----------



## yotano211 (Jul 1, 2017)

I'm still waiting for rx570 and 1070s, 5 weeks waiting on the 570s, 1.5 weeks on the 1070s. At this point I'll just resell the 570s on ebay


----------



## cdawall (Jul 1, 2017)

LightningJR said:


> On my 1070 I get 93% of the sols/s with 73% of the power used when I drop power % to 75%. If you're looking for more efficiency with a small drop in mining speed you could do that.
> 
> 445 Sol/s
> 170 Watts
> ...



I am not huge on the caring with my 980Ti's lol the 1070's are running around 430-450 sol/s with +600 memory +50 core and 80% TDP


----------



## FireFox (Jul 1, 2017)

I am very impressed with the 1070 FTW.  and the feature that shows GPU temp/Power temp and memory temp is really cool good overclockable and temps doesn't go above 60c plus it is super silent, the 1070 is running at 2012 MHz GPU clock, 4404 MHz memory clock and 1043v i could increase the GPU clock but because it mine  DaggerHashimoto and Equihash  i prefer to increase memory speed, the same for the 1060, 2012 MHz GPU clock, 4404 MHz memory clock and 1012v


----------



## hat (Jul 1, 2017)

You haven't overclocked them?


----------



## FireFox (Jul 1, 2017)

hat said:


> You haven't overclocked them?



Which one?


----------



## LightningJR (Jul 1, 2017)

I found I could run +800 memory on my 1070 and I gained 2.5Mh/s over it at +550. I worry about it though also if I were to stop the mining my computer grinds to a halt and I have to reset. Idk if it's fine running at +800 but the latter worries me too much to continue at it even though a 2.5Mh/s increase is soo nice.


----------



## hat (Jul 1, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Which one?


Your 1070s?



LightningJR said:


> I found I could run +800 memory on my 1070 and I gained 2.5Mh/s over it at +550. I worry about it though also if I were to stop the mining my computer grinds to a halt and I have to reset. Idk if it's fine running at +800 but the latter worries me too much to continue at it even though a 2.5Mh/s increase is soo nice.



Back downthe clocks a bit? Try +600?


----------



## FireFox (Jul 1, 2017)

hat said:


> Your 1070s?



Maybe i have misunderstood the whole mining concept but as i know the 1070 mines DaggerHashimoto and works better with high memory clock, that said i don't think it makes any sense to OC the card if DaggerHashimoto prefers high memory speed instead core speed,  isn't enough just to increase memory speed?


----------



## hat (Jul 1, 2017)

Yeah, that's what most people do is raise ram speed. Your screenshots of evga precision seem to show default settings though.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 1, 2017)

hat said:


> Your screenshots of evga precision seem to show default settings though.



Why?


----------



## hat (Jul 1, 2017)

Well, overclocking the cards would result in a little more mining profits...


----------



## FireFox (Jul 1, 2017)

hat said:


> Well, overclocking the cards would result in a little more mining profits...



Let me try to explain you once again.

1070/1060 = DaggerHashimoto - EquiHash = high memory speed = more profit - high core speed doesn't increase profit

When runnunig DaggerHashimoto and EquiHash i increased core speed and i didn't see any increment in MH/s or Sol/s but after i increased the memory speed MH/s and Sol/s speed started to increase

1080 = Lyra2REv2 - Lbry = high core speed = more profit - high memory speed doesn't increase profit 

When runnunig Lyra2REv2 and Lbry i increased memory speed and i didnt see any increment in MH/s or GH/s but after i increased core speed MH/s and GH/s speed started to increase



hat said:


> Your screenshots of evga precision seem to show default settings though.



once again my question.

why you said that?


----------



## hat (Jul 2, 2017)

Because they do? GPU clock offset and mem clock offset both say +0, unless I'm missing something which is entirely possible.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 2, 2017)

hat said:


> GPU clock offset and mem clock offset both say +0, unless I'm missing something which is entirely possible.



You are missing that i am using MSI Afterburner


----------



## hat (Jul 2, 2017)

Then why post screenshots of evga precision?


----------



## FireFox (Jul 2, 2017)

hat said:


> Then why post screenshots of evga precision?



The evga precision screenshots was to show the feature i was talking about, btw those numbers shown in evga precision screenshots for sure are not from a card running at stock


----------



## infrared (Jul 2, 2017)




----------



## FireFox (Jul 2, 2017)

Best thing is to clarify things you're trying to explain to avoid confusion


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 2, 2017)

infrared said:


> View attachment 89728



But my miner makes it 90 F in the mining closet...

I CAN'T HELP IT!


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 2, 2017)

Spent all weekend builing two rigs(not for me) and adjusting two others(for me) , starting to get some nice output


----------



## hat (Jul 3, 2017)

Waiting on 1070s is killing me. I contacted Dell support ages ago and they said they would ship out on the 3rd (tomorrow).


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 3, 2017)

hat said:


> Waiting on 1070s is killing me. I contacted Dell support ages ago and they said they would ship out on the 3rd (tomorrow).


I've waited so long i for four 580s i bought 3 1060s to get by with still a month out by the looks of some sites.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 3, 2017)

Does anyone with a 1070 could tell me maximum memory OC reached?


----------



## toilet pepper (Jul 3, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Does anyone with a 1070 could tell me maximum memory OC reached?



I have +750 mem on mine while using afterburner.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 3, 2017)

toilet pepper said:


> I have +750 mem on mine while using afterburner.



I don't know why or what is happening but every time i set the memory to +600 hours later i find it back to stock


----------



## toilet pepper (Jul 3, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> I don't know why or what is happening but every time i set the memory to +600 hours later i find it back to stock



You might have another gpu tweak tool up. Check your taskbar.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 3, 2017)

toilet pepper said:


> You might have another gpu tweak tool up. Check your taskbar.



 I have Evga precision and Afterburner and the weird thing is that in that system i have a 1070 and a 1060 and just the 1070 do that


----------



## toilet pepper (Jul 3, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> I have Evga precision and Afterburner and the weird thing is that in that system i have a 1070 and a 1060 and just the 1070 do that




I only run msi afterburner and no other tweak tool. I only use Palit's software when I want to change the led color.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 3, 2017)

toilet pepper said:


> I only run msi afterburner and no other tweak tool. I only use Palit's software when I want to change the led color.



So you are saying that maybe precision + MSI could be the reason?

I have both software on my Gaming Machine and that never happened, it happens just on my Mining Machine


----------



## toilet pepper (Jul 3, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> So you are saying that maybe precision + MSI could be the reason?
> 
> I have both software on my Gaming Machine and that never happened, it happens just on my Mining Machine




Yup. Most likely. The programs might be fighting over control of your cards. You might have different settings with those apps as well (ie: overclock, power limit and fan profiles.)You're lucky you only have a downclock. There was this one time I forgot to close the Palit app and the PC just crashed on me and I wasn't home to run everything again.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 3, 2017)

toilet pepper said:


> The programs might be fighting over control of your cards. You might have different settings with those apps as well (ie: overclock, power limit and fan profiles.)



But why it's happening just in the mining Machine?




toilet pepper said:


> The programs might be fighting over control of your cards.



Even if i am using just MSI to tweak the card and precision it is not doing nothing?

I will uninstall precision to see what happen but i suspect that maybe the downclock is because the card doesn't support +600 memory.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 3, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> But why it's happening just in the mining Machine?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's likely exactly that, one of my 1060s is an asus expedition ,it has microm not samsung memory and it does the same, i had them synced but not now, they're individually clocked.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 3, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> i had them synced but not now, they're individually clocked



I don't get what you mean.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 3, 2017)

The overclocks were synced , same clocks like most oc software does anyway , my asus dual oc has samsung memory and clocks higher than the expedition with micron memory.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 3, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> The overclocks were synced , same clocks like most oc software does anyway , my asus dual oc has samsung memory and clocks higher than the expedition with micron memory.



And how did you do to get it individually


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 3, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> And how did you do to get it individually


In settings i un-tick syncronise clocks , Afterburner specifically has this ,then save a profile per card , i don't think it saves different values for different cards in one profile thats why i save a profile per card , i clearly should have got all dual oc versions.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 3, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> In settings i un-tick syncronise clocks



Maybe you mean: Synchronize settings for similar graphics processors?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 3, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Maybe you mean: Synchronize settings for similar graphics processors?


I am on a mobile and away from the pc dude go easy


----------



## FireFox (Jul 3, 2017)

Yeap but it says similar graphics processors, doesn't that means similar cards?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 3, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Yeap but it says similar graphics processors, doesn't that means similar cards?


Yeah and it did used to treat a 5870 and 5850 as the same (a while ago) so might be doing the same thing with a 1070 and 1080 in the same system.
I think similar means similar to it yes.
Obviously they can have different memory , timings ,all sorts that stop overclocks at different frequencies as well as binning qualities.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 3, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> so might be doing the same thing with a 1070 and 1080 in the same system.



I never said it was a 1080 and 1070
1070 and 1060 and the one that downclock is the 1070


----------



## FireFox (Jul 3, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> In settings i un-tick syncronise clocks



I have done as you suggested.



toilet pepper said:


> The programs might be fighting over control of your cards.



Evga precision uninstalled.

Now let's see if if it doesn't downclock.


----------



## verycharbroiled (Jul 4, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> then save a profile per card , i don't think it [afterburner] saves different values for different cards in one profile thats why i save a profile per card


yeah seems you need to save a profile for each card. cards other than the one selected dont get saved.

screwed me up till i figured this out. im sure that info is in a readme somewhere but who reads those?


----------



## hat (Jul 4, 2017)

Seems like my order was just pushed back. I contacted Dell ages ago while waiting, and they said it would ship on the 3rd. When I check my order status, I see it still hasn't shipped, my expected delivery date has been pushed back to the 18th, and if I look up the card I bought, it says the ship date is the 25th.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 4, 2017)

hat said:


> Seems like my order was just pushed back. I contacted Dell ages ago while waiting, and they said it would ship on the 3rd. When I check my order status, I see it still hasn't shipped, my expected delivery date has been pushed back to the 18th, and if I look up the card I bought, it says the ship date is the 25th.


Same


----------



## hat (Jul 4, 2017)

I got half a mind to apply for credit elsewhere (newegg?) and try them. No idea what credit limit I would have though, and I really don't want _another_ consumer credit account. Maybe it'd be best just to be patient with Dell. :/


----------



## FireFox (Jul 5, 2017)

The downclock issue is solved but know i have another problem, finally yesterday the risers arrived and i installed the four GPU's but the system just reconize 3 cards i spent 8 hours trying to make it work but i didn't get it, any ideas?


----------



## yotano211 (Jul 5, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> The downclock issue is solved but know i have another problem, finally yesterday the risers arrived and i installed the four GPU's but the system just reconize 3 cards i spent 8 hours trying to make it work but i didn't get it, any ideas?


update the mobo bios to newest and enable 4g encoding in the bios and set PCI-E speed to gen 1 or gen 2, the 4g encoding is the main thing though.

If that doesnt work, you might have bad risers or just switch them around a little. Sometimes you will have 6 hooked up and only 5 will mine. Switching the risers around on the mobo sometimes solves that problem. Its why when you want to mine on 6 gpu, you should order 7 or 8 in case of failures with these risers. They are been made so fast that I would think that today they would have a higher defect rate than say 6 months ago.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 5, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> update the mobo bios to newest



That's the first thing i do when i get a new board.

It is not Bios.



yotano211 said:


> enable 4g encoding in the bios



Done that already.



yotano211 said:


> set PCI-E speed to gen 1 or gen 2,



I have to try that, haven't done it yet.



yotano211 said:


> you might have bad risers



I thought the same but i tested it on my main Machine and it works.



yotano211 said:


> just switch them around a little.



I did that.

Maybe what they suggest here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917749.0
could solve the problem


----------



## silkstone (Jul 5, 2017)

I was looking for a reasonably priced 1070 or 1060 to add to my rig, but there are none to be found in the UK  best I can see is 1-3 weeks estimated in stock 

I'm not really regretting selling my 1060 6 GB, especially since prices in local retailers (Vietnam) have spiked by up to 50%!


----------



## FireFox (Jul 5, 2017)

silkstone said:


> I was looking for a reasonably priced 1070 or 1060 to add to my rig, but there are none to be found in the UK



Why UK if you live in Vietnam, and what do you mean by reasonable price?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 6, 2017)

so ive been tweaking and my 480/580s do 30mhs for 120watts , why thats not bad at all, also upto about 150mhs now with three amd and three nvidias (@125watts atm)70 from team green 90 from the red camp ,damn british summer though, its gettin hot in here.


----------



## cdawall (Jul 6, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> so ive been tweaking and my 480/580s do 30mhs for 120watts , why thats not bad at all, also upto about 150mhs now with three amd and three nvidias (@125watts atm)70 from team green 90 from the red camp ,damn british summer though, its gettin hot in here.



Is that measuring at the wall or in GPUz?


----------



## yotano211 (Jul 6, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Is that measuring at the wall or in GPUz?


i beat gpuz, no way 580s will suck down 120watts at the wall


----------



## cdawall (Jul 6, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> i beat gpuz, no way 580s will suck down 120watts at the wall



My 480 was 80w in GPUz and 90-110w at the wall depending on load of the PSU.


----------



## yotano211 (Jul 6, 2017)

cdawall said:


> My 480 was 80w in GPUz and 90-110w at the wall depending on load of the PSU.


My too, I only have 5 rx480, 4 8gb versions and 1 4gb, all suck down low # of watts. But the rx580 are a different story. My only 6 rx580 8gb rig sucks down about 1050 watts at the wall with a 1200w psu. Tomorrow I will be getting 7 1070s that will be replacing that POS rig, it goes off to ebay and to a new owner.


----------



## silkstone (Jul 6, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Why UK if you live in Vietnam, and what do you mean by reasonable price?



Because I'm in Europe at the moment and it's easier to purchase in the UK as I have family there. 

By reasonable I'm looking for 1060's in the 250 or less range.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 6, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Is that measuring at the wall or in GPUz?


gpuz and hwinfo were both consulted ,im trying to get a plug in meter to verify it though but thats taking time.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 6, 2017)

silkstone said:


> By reasonable I'm looking for 1060's in the 250 or less range.



I was thinking to sell you my 1060s but price the price ummmm


----------



## FireFox (Jul 6, 2017)

Almost finished.







 



Yesterday at work for 7 hours all what i did was to think what was going on and what i was doing wrong that the Machine recognized just 3 cards instead 4, i almost gave up but suddenly i had an idea my last chance, i went home tried it and it worked.

It was something stupid but two days ago i didn't think about it maybe because i had too much stress trying to fix it, btw what i did was unplug all cards, downloaded DDU booted in safe mode and uninstalled all videos drivers, plugged the card that the system didn't recognize and installed nvidia drivers restarted the Machine and the card was working, the other 3 cards i installed it adding one card at a time rebooting and adding the next till all 4 cards were recognized.


----------



## hat (Jul 6, 2017)

Contacted Dell again, nothing good. The new "estimated" ship date is the 13th-18th and that's that.


----------



## silkstone (Jul 6, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> I was thinking to sell you my 1060s but price the price ummmm



250 pounds was about the going price for a 6gb version. You can get them on pre order for that much, but it's up to 3 weeks and I'll be leaving in 2 weeks.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 6, 2017)

silkstone said:


> 250 pounds



I see, you were talking about pounds, if you're interested just send me a PM.


----------



## cdawall (Jul 6, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> gpuz and hwinfo were both consulted ,im trying to get a plug in meter to verify it though but thats taking time.



So that's quite a bit higher than my cards...


----------



## FireFox (Jul 6, 2017)

Is it normal that a 1080 classified, 1080 SC, 1060 SC and 1070 FTW suck 700W?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 6, 2017)

cdawall said:


> So that's quite a bit higher than my cards...


what clocks do you have yours at and what volts if you dont mind me asking, warm day today in the mine i could do with some big fans


----------



## cdawall (Jul 6, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> what clocks do you have yours at and what volts if you dont mind me asking, warm day today in the mine i could do with some big fans



1080/2250 1v strap is for 1750 on the ram.


----------



## hat (Jul 6, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Is it normal that a 1080 classified, 1080 SC, 1060 SC and 1070 FTW suck 700W?
> 
> View attachment 89899


Doesn't sound too far off to me. The TDP of those cards total up to 630w, and you have the rest of the system to account for, and power supply inefficiency. Your unit might be 90% efficient, so if you're pulling 700w from the wall, your rig is only actually drawing 630w and 70w is lost to power supply inefficiency.

You can always try to optimize your power draw by overclocking the RAM and lowering the power target, but considering some algorithms do favor core speed as well, I personally wouldn't want to go that route. Depends on what you're running.


----------



## notb (Jul 6, 2017)

Good news. With the high profitability gone, GPU prices in Poland are already going down.
MSI 1060 Gaming X can be had for $450. Premium variants from other companies (ASUS Strix, Gigabyte G1) also dropped to under $500.
They all used to cost over $600 just a few days ago.
I'm not tracking prices in other countries, but I assume a similar movement will be visible in the rest of Europe.


----------



## cdawall (Jul 6, 2017)

notb said:


> Good news. With the high profitability gone, GPU prices in Poland are already going down.
> MSI 1060 Gaming X can be had for $450. Premium variants from other companies (ASUS Strix, Gigabyte G1) also dropped to under $500.
> They all used to cost over $600 just a few days ago.
> I'm not tracking prices in other countries, but I assume a similar movement will be visible in the rest of Europe.



The USA has not really changed


----------



## notb (Jul 7, 2017)

cdawall said:


> The USA has not really changed


Price-wise - maybe not. But what I've read in this topic, you have long waiting lists for GPUs.
In Poland NVIDIA GPUs are available off-the-shelf most of the time (thanks to fairly quick price adjusting). Only 1060 3GB is hard to find - maybe the manufacturing of those was limited (ended)?

It's even not that bad with RX580.
US: used, arrives on 12th, $620
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XZQMMHJ/?tag=tec06d-20
PL: new, available today, $650 (2400 PLN)
http://allegro.pl/msi-rx-580-8gb-armor-oc-dostepny-od-reki-zestaw-i6880268304.html
(allegro is a major polish online auction website and the seller is solid, so this seems legit)


----------



## cdawall (Jul 7, 2017)

notb said:


> Price-wise - maybe not. But what I've read in this topic, you have long waiting lists for GPUs.
> In Poland NVIDIA GPUs are available off-the-shelf most of the time (thanks to fairly quick price adjusting). Only 1060 3GB is hard to find - maybe the manufacturing of those was limited (ended)?
> 
> It's even not that bad with RX580.
> ...



I can get nvidia cards without an issue. Amd cards are pretty solidly sold out. When they are in stock local they still go for less than $400


----------



## Delta6326 (Jul 7, 2017)

anyone else notice on Nicehash it sometimes mines for a different bitcoin account?

Not mine.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 7, 2017)

notb said:


> Good news. With the high profitability gone, GPU prices in Poland are already going down.
> MSI 1060 Gaming X can be had for $450. Premium variants from other companies (ASUS Strix, Gigabyte G1) also dropped to under $500.
> They all used to cost over $600 just a few days ago.
> I'm not tracking prices in other countries, but I assume a similar movement will be visible in the rest of Europe.



1060 in Germany cost:


 

If you want it you have to order it and it takes 22 weeks for delivering


----------



## dorsetknob (Jul 7, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> If you want it you have to order it and it takes 22 weeks for delivering


might explain why there is a shortage in uk  German buyers taking all our Stock


----------



## cdawall (Jul 7, 2017)

Delta6326 said:


> anyone else notice on Nicehash it sometimes mines for a different bitcoin account?
> 
> Not mine.



That is asking you to donate to the writer of the program


----------



## Delta6326 (Jul 7, 2017)

cdawall said:


> That is asking you to donate to the writer of the program



Anyway to skip it? it runs a lot.


----------



## xrealm20 (Jul 7, 2017)

@cdawall where have you been finding them in Houston? I've been looking and Microcenter seems to be price gouging on the 1070's... Have managed to pick up some open box, but damn, they've cranked up the prices...


----------



## xrealm20 (Jul 7, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Almost finished.
> 
> 
> Yesterday at work for 7 hours all what i did was to think what was going on and what i was doing wrong that the Machine recognized just 3 cards instead 4, i almost gave up but suddenly i had an idea my last chance, i went home tried it and it worked.
> ...




Looking good! One question - why are you running off of the built in video? I've heard that it takes a few PCIe lanes away.


----------



## cdawall (Jul 7, 2017)

Delta6326 said:


> Anyway to skip it? it runs a lot.



It's just a text line at start. It does nothing.



xrealm20 said:


> @cdawall where have you been finding them in Houston? I've been looking and Microcenter seems to be price gouging on the 1070's... Have managed to pick up some open box, but damn, they've cranked up the prices...



My current b.s. job involves that houston microcenter at least for the rest of the month.


----------



## silkstone (Jul 7, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> I see, you were talking about pounds, if you're interested just send me a PM.



Thanks Knoxx29, I'm going to see what comes up on prime day, as I'm also considering a 1440p monitor. I need to see how much money I have left closer to the end of my trip too as staying in Europe is a bit more expensive than I'd hoped.


----------



## hat (Jul 7, 2017)

Almost lost it. I woke up this morning to see Nicehash reporting only .08USD! I had over 10 bucks in there. Before I totally freaked out, I checked Coinbase and as it turns out I received my first payout. .0004BTC worth $10.56.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 7, 2017)

hat said:


> Almost lost it. I woke up this morning to see Nicehash reporting only .08USD! I had over 10 bucks in there. Before I totally freaked out, I checked Coinbase and as it turns out I received my first payout. .0004BTC worth $10.56.



What a coincidence, i had 50€ and today i saw they were gone and first thing i thought someone hacked my account but a few minutes later i found out that i got paid.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 7, 2017)

Delta6326 said:


> anyone else notice on Nicehash it sometimes mines for a different bitcoin account?
> 
> Not mine.



One of the miners it uses has a mandatory 2% donation yeah.  You still make more than competing methods.


----------



## yotano211 (Jul 7, 2017)

Delta6326 said:


> anyone else notice on Nicehash it sometimes mines for a different bitcoin account?
> 
> Not mine.



That is the developer fee, the fee that the developer gets to improve the mining program and for his/her time to make the program. 
You make something so you wanna get paid for it.


----------



## hat (Jul 7, 2017)

Seems there's lots of fees involved in this. Fees in the mining program, fees when I get paid, fees when I withdraw from my Bitcoin wallet... and then I realized it's not much different from "real" money, only less intrusive. I remind myself of what my pay stubs look like and suddenly Bitcoin fees seem much more reasonable.


----------



## yotano211 (Jul 7, 2017)

hat said:


> Seems there's lots of fees involved in this. Fees in the mining program, fees when I get paid, fees when I withdraw from my Bitcoin wallet... and then I realized it's not much different from "real" money, only less intrusive. I remind myself of what my pay stubs look like and suddenly Bitcoin fees seem much more reasonable.


And dont forget to pay your fees, taxes, to the government. Mining income is considered income.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 7, 2017)

hat said:


> Seems there's lots of fees involved in this. Fees in the mining program, fees when I get paid, fees when I withdraw from my Bitcoin wallet... and then I realized it's not much different from "real" money, only less intrusive. I remind myself of what my pay stubs look like and suddenly Bitcoin fees seem much more reasonable.



It wasn't supposed to be that way at cryptos inception, but yeah, that's what it's become.

Everyone always wants a cut.


----------



## hat (Jul 7, 2017)

Of course everyone wants a cut. That guy with that 2% fee for using his mining program is probably rich af right now.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 7, 2017)

hat said:


> Of course everyone wants a cut. That guy with that 2% fee for using his mining program is probably rich af right now.



I'd say he's steadily employed and has it in his interest to make sure his miner is the "best on the market" for certain.


----------



## hat (Jul 8, 2017)

GTX1070 profitability on the nicehash calculator seems to be declining. I remember it being closer to $5/day, now it's around $2.84 or something. What happened?


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 8, 2017)

hat said:


> GTX1070 profitability on the nicehash calculator seems to be declining. I remember it being closer to $5/day, now it's around $2.84 or something. What happened?



Crypto is taking a bit of a shit in value right now, primarily.


----------



## LightningJR (Jul 8, 2017)

hat said:


> GTX1070 profitability on the nicehash calculator seems to be declining. I remember it being closer to $5/day, now it's around $2.84 or something. What happened?



the way of the road. bitcoin/eth declining in value.


----------



## yotano211 (Jul 8, 2017)

fullinfusion said:


> can I have some help?


Help with what?


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 8, 2017)

fullinfusion said:


> can I have some help?



Depends.  If you need the mental kind, I'm all out.  Check in next week.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 8, 2017)

Looks correct to me as far as the bitcoin wallet is concerned.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 8, 2017)

Question.

Which power option do you use guys?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 8, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Question.
> 
> Which power option do you use guys?


electric bro through a 1000watt corsair 1000rmx , not certain i get you though


----------



## FireFox (Jul 8, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> electric bro through a 1000watt corsair 1000rmx , not certain i get you though



Windows power plan


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 8, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> Windows power plan


Tricky that since none are right for amd cards you need to disable monitor sleep and pc sleep on any you choose , i made my own to limit core speed to 2ghz max too with no sleep features on , an amd headed miner can stop mining if it hasn't got a screen attached ,yet maddeningly if you didn't have one attached in the first place they work ok yet cant be tuned, just what ive found , nvidia cards are not bothered by monitors switching off but i still set it up the same.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 8, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Tricky that since none are right for amd cards you need to disable monitor sleep and pc sleep on any you choose , i made my own to limit core speed to 2ghz max too with no sleep features on , an amd headed miner can stop mining if it hasn't got a screen attached ,yet maddeningly if you didn't have one attached in the first place they work ok yet cant be tuned, just what ive found , nvidia cards are not bothered by monitors switching off but i still set it up the same.



This morning i found out that all 4 cards were mining just 0.65€ ( DaggerHashimoto ) they were mining but it's like they went into some very low power usage, maybe it's because i was using Windows power save mode, now i switched to balance power mode.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 8, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> This morning i found out that all 4 cards were mining just 0.65€ ( DaggerHashimoto ) they were mining but it's like they went into some very low power usage, maybe it's because i was using Windows power save mode, now i switched to balance power mode.


Same id left mine in performance mode so the monitor switched off after a timeout and mining got suspended, i thought my room cool when I awoke but not now


----------



## FireFox (Jul 8, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Same id left mine in performance mode so the monitor switched off after a timeout and mining got suspended, i thought my room cool when I awoke but not now



So which do you recommend?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 8, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> So which do you recommend?



I use a modified balanced profile so i can switch to performance to game on , turn any sleep mode etc off in its advanced settings.
Then balanced works fine.


----------



## INSTG8R (Jul 8, 2017)

Well I’m not gaming very much  so after messing with Geth and Claymore etc,. I took the easy way out and am using Minergate. Seems to work well enough and it’s using both CPU and GPU so that’s handy. I mean I’m just dabbling for fun.


----------



## verycharbroiled (Jul 8, 2017)

hat said:


> GTX1070 profitability on the nicehash calculator seems to be declining. I remember it being closer to $5/day, now it's around $2.84 or something. What happened?



naturally it would, as i just bought a 1070 

1st nvidia card, so i need to catch up on the nvidia mining tricks.


----------



## r9 (Jul 8, 2017)

verycharbroiled said:


> naturally it would, as i just bought a 1070
> 
> 1st nvidia card, so i need to catch up on the nvidia mining tricks.



Difficulty goes up while the price of ethereum goes down.


----------



## horik (Jul 8, 2017)

This is new, from a new team of developers, so you might want to get aboard:

https://penisium.org/#wtf


----------



## FireFox (Jul 8, 2017)

Yeap and mining is becoming useless/ unprofitable.


----------



## verycharbroiled (Jul 9, 2017)

r9 said:


> Difficulty goes up while the price of ethereum goes down.





Knoxx29 said:


> Yeap and mining is becoming useless/ unprofitable.



maybe ill have to use the 1070 as a *gasp* _gaming card?_   say it aint so!!

it is a mini 1070, fit right into my HTPC at some point when its useless at mining.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 9, 2017)

verycharbroiled said:


> maybe ill have to use the 1070 as a *gasp* _gaming card?_   say it aint so!!
> 
> it is a mini 1070, fit right into my HTPC at some point when its useless at mining.



I will mine for one more week and if things do not change i will sell my mining Machine.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 9, 2017)

horik said:


> This is new, from a new team of developers, so you might want to get aboard:
> 
> https://penisium.org/#wtf



Someone just learned about altcoins, I'm guessing.


----------



## moproblems99 (Jul 9, 2017)

So, I know this seems like a simple question but I couldn't really find an answer anyway.  Most people seem to run their display off IGP and mine with the other cards.  Can you run a display off a card and mine?


----------



## INSTG8R (Jul 9, 2017)

Welp my Fury hates Ethereum. BSOD or just a full on reset. So I’m mining Monero. If someone has a better suggestion I’m all ears.


----------



## verycharbroiled (Jul 9, 2017)

moproblems99 said:


> So, I know this seems like a simple question but I couldn't really find an answer anyway.  Most people seem to run their display off IGP and mine with the other cards.  Can you run a display off a card and mine?



yes. at least with AMD.

my daily driver pc has a R9 390 and no IGP (Z77 with 3570K). during the day it mines at low power and can play videos and older games at the same time. at night it mines at full intensity.  full power only at night as the fans ramp up and and its in the living room so for quietness sake its only mining full tilt when we are asleep. use trixx to change power profiles.

when mining at lower power you can barely tell its running. quiet, very occasional lag on page scrolls. other than that no issues.


----------



## notb (Jul 9, 2017)

moproblems99 said:


> So, I know this seems like a simple question but I couldn't really find an answer anyway.  Most people seem to run their display off IGP and mine with the other cards.  Can you run a display off a card and mine?


Of course you can. You can even run games and display on the same GPU! 



verycharbroiled said:


> yes. at least with AMD.
> 
> my daily driver pc has a R9 390 and no IGP (Z77 with 3570K). during the day it mines at low power and can play videos and older games at the same time. at night it mines at full intensity.  full power only at night as the fans ramp up and and its in the living room so for quietness sake its only mining full tilt when we are asleep. use trixx to change power profiles.


Shouldn't this be the opposite? Quiet at night and noisy during the day?


----------



## moproblems99 (Jul 9, 2017)

verycharbroiled said:


> yes. at least with AMD.
> 
> my daily driver pc has a R9 390 and no IGP (Z77 with 3570K). during the day it mines at low power and can play videos and older games at the same time. at night it mines at full intensity.  full power only at night as the fans ramp up and and its in the living room so for quietness sake its only mining full tilt when we are asleep. use trixx to change power profiles.
> 
> when mining at lower power you can barely tell its running. quiet, very occasional lag on page scrolls. other than that no issues.





notb said:


> Of course you can. You can even run games and display on the same GPU!



That's what I thought.  Hated to ask the question, just needed confirmation.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 9, 2017)

1080/1070/1060 for sale in the EU


----------



## dorsetknob (Jul 9, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> 1080/1070/1060 for sale in the EU



Have they been used to mine crypto coins ????
Personally would not buy any ex mining card (or Recommend anyone else to)
In Fact would not buy any Card capable of mining unless i know its genuine history ( or Brand new )


----------



## FireFox (Jul 9, 2017)

dorsetknob said:


> Have they been used to mine crypto coins ????
> Personally would not buy any ex mining card (or Recommend anyone else to)
> In Fact would not buy any Card capable of mining unless i know its genuine history ( or Brand new )



The 1070 was bought less than 2 weeks ago and the 1080 less than one month ago?

And yes they have mined but not 24/7


----------



## krusha03 (Jul 9, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> 1080/1070/1060 for sale in the EU


At what price? I have been wanting to get 1060/1070 but with the current price rise i couldn't justify that


----------



## Norton (Jul 9, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> The 1070 was bought less than 2 weeks ago and the 1080 less than one month ago?
> 
> And yes they have mined but not 24/7





krusha03 said:


> At what price? I have been wanting to get 1060/1070 but with the current price rise i couldn't justify that



Discussion of B/S/T transactions between members is not allowed in threads- please take it to PM's to discuss


----------



## INSTG8R (Jul 9, 2017)

Could someone explain to me why the focus on GPUs? I’m currently using both. CPU and GPU and my CPU is pretty much hashiimg I3x as much as my GPU lets say 150 vs 50.


----------



## verycharbroiled (Jul 9, 2017)

notb said:


> Shouldn't this be the opposite? Quiet at night and noisy during the day?




daily driver is in the living room. so we want it quiet during the day when we might be in there . at night we are in the bedroom so the daily driver can be as loud as it wants, we dont hear it.

dedicated mining rig is in the basement, it runs full tilt 24/7.


----------



## notb (Jul 9, 2017)

INSTG8R said:


> Could someone explain to me why the focus on GPUs? I’m currently using both. CPU and GPU and my CPU is pretty much hashiimg I3x as much as my GPU lets say 150 vs 50.


Are the specs correct? If so, your GPU should make a lot more.
CPUs aren't very effective for simple hashing algorithms. A GPU (hundreds of simple cores) are much better.
Even if you ignore the fact that few GPUs can be used in one PC, they have an advantage.
An 8-core Ryzen is more or less equivalent to a GTX 1050 or RX460, but a simple Ryzen 1700 system will cost you as much as a GTX 1070 - the latter making 3-4x as much (but they will mine different cryptocurrencies).


verycharbroiled said:


> daily driver is in the living room. so we want it quiet during the day when we might be in there . at night we are in the bedroom so the daily driver can be as loud as it wants, we dont hear it.
> 
> dedicated mining rig is in the basement, it runs full tilt 24/7.


Is this a flat or a house? Because I tend to think that the living room is right behind the wall. 
Also, have you considered just making the PC quieter? You don't have to spend much more to achieve that and the benefits are pretty significant (and fairly quantitative if that lets you do more mining).


----------



## INSTG8R (Jul 9, 2017)

notb said:


> Are the specs correct? If so, your GPU should make a lot more.
> CPUs aren't very effective for simple hashing algorithms. A GPU (hundreds of simple cores) are much better.
> Even if you ignore the fact that few GPUs can be used in one PC, they have an advantage.
> An 8-core Ryzen is more or less equivalent to a GTX 1050 or RX460, but a simple Ryzen 1700 system will cost you as much as a GTX 1070 - the latter making 3-4x as much (but they will mine different cryptocurrencies).



Well this how its running as of now


----------



## BATOFF3 (Jul 9, 2017)

INSTG8R said:


> Well this how its running as of now


 
Change your GPU Mining Intensity to "1" instead of "3"


----------



## INSTG8R (Jul 9, 2017)

BATOFF1 said:


> Change your GPU Mining Intensity to "1" instead of "3"


Thanks for the tip but that literally put it down in the teens, so worse


----------



## verycharbroiled (Jul 10, 2017)

[keeping mining on the daily driver at low power in the day, full power at night]



notb said:


> Is this a flat or a house? Because I tend to think that the living room is right behind the wall.
> Also, have you considered just making the PC quieter? You don't have to spend much more to achieve that and the benefits are pretty significant (and fairly quantitative if that lets you do more mining).



house. living room on main floor, bedrooms upstairs. so we cant hear it from the bedroom.

the daily driver is  a NZXT H2 "silent" case with sound deadening panels and even with 5 120mm fans it still has to ramp them up to keep the 390 cool when its at 100%. the 390 can draw like 250-300 watts mining full tilt. i could lower the fans a bit as card temps really arent too bad at load (60-65C) but hey since we dont hear it i let them run up to full.

its not really _that_ loud at full load (the basement rig is loud; couple 120mm deltas on that one), but it is the living room so we prefer it quiet.


----------



## BATOFF3 (Jul 10, 2017)

INSTG8R said:


> Thanks for the tip but that literally put it down in the teens, so worse



Try "4" then


----------



## INSTG8R (Jul 10, 2017)

Yeah that's better...


----------



## notb (Jul 10, 2017)

INSTG8R said:


> Yeah that's better...


The CPU figure is in line with what one should expect (based at e.g. nicehash calculator).
The GPU figure is somehow low. It should be making over 3 times as much.
Can you check the GPU load?


----------



## silkstone (Jul 10, 2017)

INSTG8R said:


> Yeah that's better...


Is that with Minergate?

I got a really low hashrate with that program too and so dropped it.


----------



## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Jul 10, 2017)

Plop


----------



## hat (Jul 11, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> 1080/1070/1060 for sale in the EU


Isn't that a little... shortsighted? You haven't been in the game very long. Maybe you'd rather ride this out and see where it goes.


----------



## notb (Jul 11, 2017)

hat said:


> Isn't that a little... shortsighted? You haven't been in the game very long. Maybe you'd rather ride this out and see where it goes.


What you're suggesting is literaty one of the worst mistakes beginning investors make. 
Please don't do it.


----------



## cdawall (Jul 11, 2017)

notb said:


> What you're suggesting is literaty one of the worst mistakes beginning investors make.
> Please don't do it.



All of his cards are profitable to both sell or mine at this point. Keeping mining or selling the cards are both fine options.


----------



## notb (Jul 11, 2017)

cdawall said:


> All of his cards are profitable to both sell or mine at this point. Keeping mining or selling the cards are both fine options.


How do you estimate whether mining is profitable or not?


----------



## hat (Jul 11, 2017)

My guess is with this
https://www.nicehash.com/?p=calc



notb said:


> What you're suggesting is literaty one of the worst mistakes beginning investors make.
> Please don't do it.



How so? Bitcoin, and other cryptocurrencies, all go up and down. When the prices shot up recently everybody lost their minds (admittedly it was this thread that drew my attention) but now that they're going back down again it seems a lot of people want out. Personally, I haven't even got a chance to get started yet since I made my order on the 19th of June, but once I do get in I plan to stay in for the long haul.


----------



## cdawall (Jul 11, 2017)

notb said:


> How do you estimate whether mining is profitable or not?



Math is typically a good start


----------



## dorsetknob (Jul 11, 2017)

notb said:


> How do you estimate whether mining is profitable or not?



simple answer
"If your making more money than its costing you to mine = Profit"


----------



## silkstone (Jul 11, 2017)

I'm going to try and hold on to what I mine until at least 2020. I'll likely continue mining even if it breaks even (or worse).


----------



## dorsetknob (Jul 11, 2017)

silkstone said:


> I'm going to try and hold on to what I mine until at least 2020. I'll likely continue mining even if it breaks even (or worse).


Not saying it would happen but todays ( near timescale ) mining losses just might be profit in 18 to 24 months time if your prepared to risk all by continuing.

or 18 to 24 months time you just might be  thats the risk of Speculating


----------



## hat (Jul 11, 2017)

It seems like everybody and their brother jumped on when BTC blew up to 3,000, and now it's normalizing and a lot of people want out.

This is going to be a short term money maker for me, but it's also a long term investment.


----------



## silkstone (Jul 12, 2017)

dorsetknob said:


> Not saying it would happen but todays ( near timescale ) mining losses just might be profit in 18 to 24 months time if your prepared to risk all by continuing.
> 
> or 18 to 24 months time you just might be  thats the risk of Speculating



Not much risk past the electricity cost really. 
When mining, the 1080 is clocked low and runs at 65C.

It either goes up, or it doesn't and I am good with both of these scenarios. 

The one I would not be happy with us if it goes up, but I hadn't bothered mining anything (again).


----------



## xrealm20 (Jul 12, 2017)

INSTG8R said:


> Welp my Fury hates Ethereum. BSOD or just a full on reset. So I’m mining Monero. If someone has a better suggestion I’m all ears.


I've heard that zec (equihash) does well w/ fury's. Might want to give that a try.


----------



## cdawall (Jul 12, 2017)

xrealm20 said:


> I've heard that zec (equihash) does well w/ fury's. Might want to give that a try.



It isn't any better than ethereum.


----------



## notb (Jul 12, 2017)

hat said:


> My guess is with this
> https://www.nicehash.com/?p=calc


These are just some numbers. Do you know how they're calculated? How do you use them?


> How so? Bitcoin, and other cryptocurrencies, all go up and down.


That's like saying cars crash or don't crash.
If you treat this as a random-walk system (i.e. it just fluctuates), then the expected value in the future is what you have now.
So are you OK with current levels of profitability?

And if you add any fundamentals to this equation, then you quickly notice that really nothing happened since end-of-2016 that could result in this surge of price we've seen in 2017. And if BTC goes back to the price we had in January (~900$) or even April ($1200) then it's game over: most cards aren't even making a profit, the most efficient ones have hardly any sense either - you'd be better of investing in a fund or something.


> When the prices shot up recently everybody lost their minds (admittedly it was this thread that drew my attention) but now that they're going back down again it seems a lot of people want out. Personally, I haven't even got a chance to get started yet since I made my order on the 19th of June, but once I do get in I plan to stay in for the long haul.


Why do you want to keep mining (or rather start it)? I mean: if this thread drew your attention, it suggest that you wouldn't get into mining with the profitability it offered few months ago. So why stay in this now, when we're slowly going back to that situation?
Also, how is it even possible that you've been waiting so long for your GPUs? You've ordered a thousand of them or what? 


cdawall said:


> Math is typically a good start


That is very brave for you to say, considering what was happening in this thread just month ago:
"All I know is it is free money to me that goes into my bank account in USD. LOL"
"Well BTC is up over $2800 again. Pretty rough on the risk, just had over $300 dumped into my accounts from this lol."
"I have no real risk other than time into this...LOL"
A lot of LOLs here.
I bet not many people that jumped into mining in June are LOL-ing now. Especially those who used to think this way:
"You get roughly 100% return of your investment in two months, and we are discussing risks." @r9


dorsetknob said:


> Not saying it would happen but todays ( near timescale ) mining losses just might be profit in 18 to 24 months time if your prepared to risk all by continuing.


In 18-24 months the cards you have today will most likely be too weak to make a profit.
And buying stuff is easy when you have large in-flows (like in June), but not when you've had no profit from mining for a year.
And lets be honest: if you bought a GPU in early June (when this thread started), you'd still be weeks from actual profits (as at that point typical ROI was about 60 days).
But if you bought a GPU at the end of June, you could be looking at ROI way past 12 months.


----------



## cdawall (Jul 12, 2017)

notb said:


> That is very brave for you to say, considering what was happening in this thread just month ago:
> "All I know is it is free money to me that goes into my bank account in USD. LOL"
> "Well BTC is up over $2800 again. Pretty rough on the risk, just had over $300 dumped into my accounts from this lol."
> "I have no real risk other than time into this...LOL"
> ...



Just because I am a smartass doesn't mean I have not done the math.

Calculate out USD per day, work out electricity cost and most people at that point would work out profit. I still make about $300-400 a week electricity is still only $300 a month (I did adjust my rigs for lowest overhead power and I can still get better on it, but this functions)

There still isn't that much risk if you can get in at a sane price. 1080ti is probably the best value card with just over 100 days ROI. Midrange went to a garbage coat and isn't really worth it.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jul 12, 2017)

Just thought I would say my 1080 Ti now down to $2.53/Day Nicehash


----------



## notb (Jul 12, 2017)

Delta6326 said:


> Just thought I would say my 1080 Ti now down to $2.53/Day Nicehash


Adjusted for electricity cost?
Currently power draw for 1080Ti will consume from around 30% of revenue (in US - cheap electricity) to 75% (e.g. Germany).

Current stats @nicehash (assuming: 35 USD/kWh and card price 1100 USD)
Income: 2.77 USD / day
Power costs: 2.07 USD / day
ROI: 319 days


----------



## hat (Jul 12, 2017)

@notb
I don't 100% know everything about the Nicehash calculator, I just know you can select common models from a drop-down list, which fills in performance values for compatible algorithms for that hardware. Those values are then calculated with the current rewards (coin prices, etc) to estimate the amount of money you'll make per day. Am I OK with current profitability? Well, my 1070s will be making $2.26/day at this rate, which isn't nearly as much as when I ordered them. I'm OK with that, but I'd much prefer making $5/day on each card like I previously thought... but the market can go up or down. It's a risk, and I knew that. I've been waiting so long... why? Hard to say. I ordered from Dell, because I have credit there. I should have had my cards already, but nope. The promised day (the day they were supposed to ship out) came and went and I contacted Dell and they said they were backordered. I'm now looking at an estimated delivery date of July 18. The last time mining was big I just didn't pay much attention to it... but since this thread was created it's been brought to my attention and I saw an opportunity to earn some money, so I jumped in.

Has anyone done any CPU mining? My i5 2400 gets roughly 18 cents/day at 111.2 H/s (CyrptoNight). Seems pretty pathetic. I wonder what more powerful CPUs could hit.


----------



## cdawall (Jul 12, 2017)

notb said:


> Adjusted for electricity cost?
> Currently power draw for 1080Ti will consume from around 30% of revenue (in US - cheap electricity) to 75% (e.g. Germany).
> 
> Current stats @nicehash (assuming: 35 USD/kWh and card price 1100 USD)
> ...



Current stats in a country that doesn't suck and a card properly setup.

$3.20 a day .38 power cost and a net profit of $2.82 per day on a 124 day return. Mind you this is a tweaked card with 198w power consumption, overclocked memory and a cost of $649.99.

Its 8 cents a kw/h here.


----------



## fullinfusion (Jul 12, 2017)

hat said:


> I ordered from Dell, because I have credit there.


Credit  sorry but isnt that what got the US into trouble in the first place not that many years ago? 

Anyways with credit and the electrical cost, what's the time on ROI? Assuming you pay dell off first thing before anything else.

A wise father taught me once that if you can't pay cash for something or pay off credit before the monthly interest kicks in then you don't need it 

And I do wish ya luck btw.. 

I mined just for some data over the weekend and after 8 hours I made a whopping .80c and that was at a hash rate of 25.. no thanks. If I want free money I'll go deliver pizza for tips on my days off for (free money) and invest it


----------



## notb (Jul 12, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Current stats in a country that doesn't suck and a card properly setup.


Well... there is more to life than cheap electricity. 


> $3.20 a day .38 power cost and a net profit of $2.82 per day on a 124 day return. Mind you this is a tweaked card with 198w power consumption, overclocked memory and a cost of $649.99.


According to nicehash - maybe. I'm also using their ROI most of the time.
But lets be honest: it's not 124 days. 650 / 2.82 = 230


fullinfusion said:


> Credit  sorry but isnt that what got the US into trouble in the first place not that many years ago?


Actually it was investing into financial instruments that had no value because "everyone did". A bit like with mining cryptocurrencies. 


> A wise father taught me once that if you can't pay cash for something or pay off credit before the monthly interest kicks in then you don't need it


For example: a house or education?


> If I want free money I'll go deliver pizza for tips on my days off for (free money) and invest it


Well this is not free money (you're doing something - it consumes time and other resources). But this is a valid point I'm trying to point out for few weeks already: alternative cost.
When you get past a few cards in a desktop and you start maintaining rigs in basement etc, mining becomes a job (part or full time) and one should consider how time and money could be used otherwise.


----------



## cdawall (Jul 12, 2017)

notb said:


> According to nicehash - maybe. I'm also using their ROI most of the time.
> But lets be honest: it's not 124 days. 650 / 2.82 = 230



I assume the calculator has the ebs and flows of bitcoin rolled in. To base roi off of a single day would be naive.


----------



## notb (Jul 12, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I assume the calculator has the ebs and flows of bitcoin rolled in. To base roi off of a single day would be naive.


Calculator algorithms are visible in the source:
ROI := "price of card" / "Past 30 days profit" * 30


----------



## cdawall (Jul 12, 2017)

notb said:


> Calculator algorithms are visible in the source:
> ROI := "price of card" / "Past 30 days profit" * 30



So that would be average profit trying to mitigate each days change...which is basically what I said


----------



## fullinfusion (Jul 12, 2017)

notb said:


> For example: a house or education?


No not at all, a house, car, education that's ok or reasonable debt..(wise debt) a house and education is a life time investment that pays off. A new TV, stereo, holidays that's unreasonable debt.. going into hock for a few video cards tells me the party don't have the money to begin with. As for the example of go deliver pizza for free money is an example of yes, if you want to make money go make it.. it takes resources in gas sure, but most places give a gas allowance plus hourly wage.. the tips just an added bonus. See for me when I WANT something I do extra work.. example, December I'll go drive taxi or do delivery and Beit the holidays I make large coin just in tips alone.

Maybe Im old school and don't get me wrong on mining, but to each there own and all the power to them for doing it  but be smart and don't be silly in the decisions to do it.. have a plan and be realistic about it 

Cd for one, he's a hardware whore horder lol and made his coin off used parts till the cash came in to upgrade.. that's wise.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 12, 2017)

notb said:


> Calculator algorithms are visible in the source:
> ROI := "price of card" / "Past 30 days profit" * 30


Im starting to think your a greenpiece afficienado who just likes arguing at this point.

Not to you

Soo i spent my money on 3x1060 now my soddin preorder 580s are cleared , typical gota find more pennies now , i did think about cancelling it given the recent crypto dive but after slapping my self i remembered , Long play.


----------



## hat (Jul 12, 2017)

fullinfusion said:


> Credit  sorry but isnt that what got the US into trouble in the first place not that many years ago?
> 
> Anyways with credit and the electrical cost, what's the time on ROI? Assuming you pay dell off first thing before anything else.
> 
> ...


I understand, believe me. I'm not one to use credit for frivolous things. Maybe it will turn out to be a poor decision in hindsight, but to me, I spent money (or used credit, and will be spending money) for the opportunity to make more money and make things easier for myself and my family. Maybe it doesn't come with all the merits of hard work and what your dad taught you about the value of a dollar way back when, but it's one way that works for everybody (in my life).


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 12, 2017)

Thats about poor , middle class and rich peoples perception of what an Asset is.

A friend i helped build an expensive mining rig sent it to me yesterday when etherium hit £145.

And it defines perfectly well why some work one way while others Don't work their way.

I have my first Asset, i wont be trading any More of my time for what i deam to be a pittance to live on.

More time working might equal more money but it also equals less life to actually live so at 41 im not into that fullinfusion , i was upto three years ago i was a Overtime bandit, no more though.


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## fullinfusion (Jul 12, 2017)

hat said:


> I understand, believe me. I'm not one to use credit for frivolous things. Maybe it will turn out to be a poor decision in hindsight, but to me, I spent money (or used credit, and will be spending money) for the opportunity to make more money and make things easier for myself and my family. Maybe it doesn't come with all the merits of hard work and what your dad taught you about the value of a dollar way back when, but it's one way that works for everybody (in my life).


Fair enough and totally understand.

I just hate seeing you wait n wait n wait on your cards and believe me I don't want you to miss out. Its a risky time right now. 

@theoneandonlymrk I really don't know how to take your post about being 41 and living life..  so I'll pass on the post.


----------



## hat (Jul 12, 2017)

fullinfusion said:


> Fair enough and totally understand.
> 
> I just hate seeing you wait n wait n wait on your cards and believe me I don't want you to miss out. Its a risky time right now.
> 
> @theoneandonlymrk I really don't know how to take your post about being 41 and living life..  so I'll pass on the post.


I appreciate that. I know it's risky but, well... the rewards could be anywhere from enormous to hopefully at least enough to pay for the initial investment. I want to eventually get another two 1070s, or maybe two 1080s (non-Ti), but that's way down the road. Probably 16 months from now or so. By then I'll have a big loan paid off and more money to spend freely.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 12, 2017)

fullinfusion said:


> Fair enough and totally understand.
> 
> I just hate seeing you wait n wait n wait on your cards and believe me I don't want you to miss out. Its a risky time right now.
> 
> @theoneandonlymrk I really don't know how to take your post about being 41 and living life..  so I'll pass on the post.


Are you suggesting im too old already , i lived life , been in a band a raver all sorts of stuff , but specifically im not striving to spend more time earning someone else bucks on their Asset so i can earn an extra few quid.

I did loads of overtime before it hasn't made me rich , my lifes not any better and i still drive an old smoker ,thats enough of that shit.

I am not saying im out partying instead but i am doing what i want.

And if the vid made you nowty by implication , it wasn't meant to, id put myself in the poor bracket but i do have some financial flexibility, just not much.


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## fullinfusion (Jul 12, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Are you suggesting im too old already , i lived life , been in a band a raver all sorts of stuff , but specifically im not striving to spend more time earning someone else bucks on their Asset so i can earn an extra few quid.
> 
> I did loads of overtime before it hasn't made me rich , my lifes not any better and i still drive an old smoker ,thats enough of that shit.
> 
> ...


No tbh I didn't bother clicking the video. And as being 41 your still young and still have much more life to enjoy 

@hat good for you! Loans suck and I can't wait to get that monkey off my back too. It frees up so much extra cash for a person no doubt. 

I just heard on the radio today as the Canadian bank is raising interest rates soon. Loans and lines of credit ect.. everything goes up except wages ffs. if hydro wasn't going up due to the bi-pole project in my province to feed power into the states I'd say hell with it and let the cards burn but a 46% hike in rates within 4 years no way in hell.. I'm to the point of going of the grid and convert to solar and wouldn't that be interesting mining all that free power lol.

Has anyone in here bought shares in mining farms? And if so how well is it working out?


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## hat (Jul 13, 2017)

*Finally shipped!!* They'll be here Friday via FedEx, just in time for the weekend. 

I've been pondering this question on my own, but I figured I'd gather some opinions on it anyway. I have some MX-4, should I replace the thermal paste for better temps on these things, or wouldn't it matter much? Guess it would be best to see how they do before I go mucking around with them. Just thinking aloud, I guess...


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## fullinfusion (Jul 13, 2017)

hat said:


> *Finally shipped!!* They'll be here Friday via FedEx, just in time for the weekend.
> 
> I've been pondering this question on my own, but I figured I'd gather some opinions on it anyway. I have some MX-4, should I replace the thermal paste for better temps on these things, or wouldn't it matter much? Guess it would be best to see how they do before I go mucking around with them. Just thinking aloud, I guess...


That's awesome news!! Good for you and hope they work out very well for ya..

See my post earlier upset Dell and they fired them off to you  see I'm your good luck for the day 

I'd just see how well they cool first tbh..

When I ran mining on the 480 for 8+ hrs it only maxed out at 60c but that's with grizzly paste.. I got a -12c cooler temperature then the stock paste, but dam the memory ran hot... you could make grilled cheese on the back plate


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## hat (Jul 13, 2017)

One reason why I wish I had a true water cooling setup. Those waterblocks cover everything (including ram chips) don't they?


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## fullinfusion (Jul 13, 2017)

hat said:


> One reason why I wish I had a true water cooling setup. Those waterblocks cover everything (including ram chips) don't they?


yup 99.9% sure they do!

If you ever want to change the paste I'd highly recommend getting the ArcliClean kit.. It removes that dam wax the manufactures put in the paste.. W1zzard uses it faithfully from what I hear


----------



## fullinfusion (Jul 13, 2017)

Hey Miners what does your electric company charge you for your Kw/h?

I'm in Manitoba Canada and right now I pay KW/h ($) 0.07930


----------



## cdawall (Jul 13, 2017)

Well for those watching the market zcash is where it is at right now. Highest conversion rate I have seen in a while.

My rigs are sitting at 8000 sols/s give or take which is back around 70-80 USD a day.

I shoupd be a smidgen higher, but cannot get to my furys to swap them over.


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## notb (Jul 13, 2017)

cdawall said:


> So that would be average profit trying to mitigate each days change...which is basically what I said


Which is rubbish. This means that currently suggested ROI is still largely based on peak profitability in June.


fullinfusion said:


> No not at all, a house, car, education that's ok or reasonable debt..(wise debt) a house and education is a life time investment that pays off. A new TV, stereo, holidays that's unreasonable debt..


You'll have hard time drawing the line between things that can be bought on credit and those that shouldn't.
For quite a lot of people a TV is a tool they use - a source of information.
But watching TV or plazing games is also a good way to relax and rest. It can improve your efficiency at work.

On the other hand, buying a house for yourself IS NOT an investment. Actually, thinking it is was what caused the 2007 crisis. 


> going into hock for a few video cards tells me the party don't have the money to begin with.


Investing is usually done on credit. This is pretty fundamental part of doing business.
The difference here is that companies usually know how to calculate profitability and risk, so this is usually a well-thought-out strategy. It's pretty obvious that home miners don't have the necessary knowledge.


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## yotano211 (Jul 13, 2017)

notb said:


> Which is rubbish. This means that currently suggested ROI is still largely based on peak profitability in June.
> 
> You'll have hard time drawing the line between things that can be bought on credit and those that shouldn't.
> For quite a lot of people a TV is a tool they use - a source of information.
> ...



i dont know what "home miners" are you talking about but I have a BA in Economics and was an analyst with a Investment bank 8 years ago. A lot of the bigger "home miners" know about risk. They had the capital to start up or using credit, they are taking a risk unlike most people in this world.


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## Vya Domus (Jul 13, 2017)

notb said:


> It's pretty obvious that home miners don't have the necessary knowledge.



Oh no , don't say that ! It's free money what more is there to know ?



yotano211 said:


> A lot of the bigger "home miners" know about risk.



You would be surprised.


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## cdawall (Jul 13, 2017)

notb said:


> On the other hand, buying a house for yourself IS NOT an investment. Actually, thinking it is was what caused the 2007 crisis.



Umm sub prime house loans caused a housing bubble which is what caused the crisis.


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## verycharbroiled (Jul 13, 2017)

My 5 cards paid for themselves months ago. 2x390, 2x470, a 460. All bought with profits from btc mining years ago (btc was mined on a 6870, 5830 and a couple fpgas).

This sort of thing (decline in price) happened then too. I barely made money but kept it up and hodled. Price rises, price drops. Could go to zero, could go way up. Btc went up so all that time mining at barely break even worked that time.

Point being as long as I can pay the electric via mining I will keep going.

Bought an overpriced 1070 mini that may or may not roi but it will go into my matx case htpc if it's not profitable.

Undervolt, underclock, stay thr course. Worked so far but if it all bombs tomorrow I will still have come out ahead.


----------



## notb (Jul 13, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Umm sub prime house loans caused a housing bubble which is what caused the crisis.


This is pretty funny coming from you, Mr. cdawall from Texas, US - country that doesn't suck. 
Do you support strict gun control / reducing gun availability? 


yotano211 said:


> i dont know what "home miners" are you talking about


The average sort of miner.


> but I have a BA in Economics and was an analyst with a Investment bank 8 years ago


You started before or after 2007? 


> A lot of the bigger "home miners" know about risk.


I'm sure 90% wouldn't be able to say what "risk" means.
But you're an ex investment bank analyst. Which 3 types of risk are you most exposed to as a large-scale private miner? 


> They had the capital to start up or using credit, they are taking a risk unlike most people in this world.


There's nothing wrong in taking risk. It's just a matter of understanding the risk and doing it sensibly.


verycharbroiled said:


> This sort of thing (decline in price) happened then too. I barely made money but kept it up and hodled. Price rises, price drops. Could go to zero, could go way up. Btc went up so all that time mining at barely break even worked that time.


This is one thing I don't really understand. Why do people mine at extremely low profitability (or below break even)?
I'd rather save card's condition. And of course a card mining 24/7 is irritating at home (since many people do it this way).


----------



## cdawall (Jul 13, 2017)

notb said:


> This is pretty funny coming from you, Mr. cdawall from Texas, US - country that doesn't suck.
> Do you support strict gun control / reducing gun availability?



Sub prime lending happened worldwide. The us isn't immune to poor banking practices.

I almost pretty against taking guns or the ability to get guns from people. Luckily both Obama and trump have been rather useful on that note.



notb said:


> This is one thing I don't really understand. Why do people mine at extremely low profitability (or below break even)?
> I'd rather save card's condition. And of course a card mining 24/7 is irritating at home (since many people do it this way).



Market speculation. You will still have the coin when the market goes back up.


----------



## yotano211 (Jul 13, 2017)

notb said:


> This is pretty funny coming from you, Mr. cdawall from Texas, US - country that doesn't suck.
> Do you support strict gun control / reducing gun availability?
> 
> The average sort of miner.
> ...


Graduated in 2005, laid off in 2008 and never looked back at the financial field, started own business in 2010.


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## notb (Jul 13, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Sub prime lending happened worldwide. The us isn't immune to poor banking practices.


You're right! But a large-scale bubble only happened in US.


cdawall said:


> Market speculation. You will still have the coin when the market goes back up.


But mining for speculation is just totally pointless.
If a coin at current price only covers your cost of mining it, profit-wise there's no difference whether you mine it or buy it (and mining below profitability threshold is just a certain loss). Why mine?

Also, mining always has some negative effects that you might not be able to quantify properly (to call them costs): noise, heat, space used for rigs, your maintenance effort etc.
(And I'm not going deeper into risks and related costs - I can see the more financial approach is hard to digest here. )


----------



## yotano211 (Jul 13, 2017)

notb said:


> You're right! But a large-scale bubble only happened in US.
> 
> But mining for speculation is just totally pointless.
> If a coin at current price only covers your cost of mining it, profit-wise there's no difference whether you mine it or buy it (and mining below profitability threshold is just a certain loss). Why mine?
> ...


Only in the US, HAAHAhAhAhA!!!!!!


----------



## cdawall (Jul 13, 2017)

notb said:


> You're right! But a large-scale bubble only happened in US.
> 
> But mining for speculation is just totally pointless.
> If a coin at current price only covers your cost of mining it, profit-wise there's no difference whether you mine it or buy it (and mining below profitability threshold is just a certain loss). Why mine?
> ...



I think the argument would be the practice was already in place and since the infrastructure exists for the miner it is easier to continue mining vs trying to play the market.

As for the us housing bubble of course everythinf is us centralized. I mean all you other nations are lesser.


----------



## notb (Jul 13, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Only in the US, HAAHAhAhAhA!!!!!!


Care to explain your happiness? 



cdawall said:


> I think the argument would be the practice was already in place and since the infrastructure exists for the miner it is easier to continue mining vs trying to play the market.


You said yourself that cashing your coins into USD takes a few clicks. I imagine the opposite transaction is just as simple.

And there's really no need to analyze the market, to make any forecasts or whatever. There's no need to become a full-time trader.

If you're determined to stay in the game, even below "production costs", it's a better idea to just switch the rig off and buy the same amount of coins you'd get from mining (e.g. daily).
You instantly save the price gap between coin value and your costs and you end up with the exact same assets - i.e. the same risks and the same future value.


----------



## yotano211 (Jul 13, 2017)

notb said:


> Care to explain your happiness?


"You're right! But a large-scale bubble only happened in US."

Its not happiness


----------



## notb (Jul 13, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> "You're right! But a large-scale bubble only happened in US."
> 
> Its not happiness


It's also not adding anything to the discussion. The fact that the US housing bubble caused the 2007 crisis is not mystic knowledge. You can read about it in a book or wikipedia, if you've missed it somehow (possibly very occupied by working for an investment bank - it's known to happen ).

Housing bubbles happen everywhere, all the time. There's even one in my country at the moment - created by a gov-operated program of subsidized mortgages. But a normal housing bubble ends up simply in a decrease of property value - a problem for property investors, but not a big deal if you're just buying your house on credit (you might simply be overpaying a bit).

What happened in 2007 in US is: because of subprime mortgages people had houses they couldn't afford. They would loose homes, but this would be still a US-only problem (mostly). This would not become a worldwide financial crisis. It did through the financial system - most countries affected didn't have any mortgage problems, let alone a bubble.


----------



## Vya Domus (Jul 13, 2017)

notb said:


> What happened in 2007 in US is: because of subprime mortgages people had houses they couldn't afford. They would loose homes, but this would be still a US-only problem (mostly). This would not become a worldwide financial crisis. It did through the financial system - most countries affected didn't have any mortgage problems, let alone a bubble.



Heretic real estate investments followed by a crisis happen almost like clockwork in most places around the world. It's pretty much a full on cycle at this point.


----------



## cdawall (Jul 13, 2017)

notb said:


> You said yourself that cashing your coins into USD takes a few clicks. I imagine the opposite transaction is just as simple.
> 
> And there's really no need to analyze the market, to make any forecasts or whatever. There's no need to become a full-time trader.
> 
> ...



You are correct however not everyone thinks that way.


----------



## aGeoM (Jul 13, 2017)

Some talk the talk others walk the walk...

I'm walking without talking.


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## yotano211 (Jul 13, 2017)

notb said:


> It's also not adding anything to the discussion. The fact that the US housing bubble caused the 2007 crisis is not mystic knowledge. You can read about it in a book or wikipedia, if you've missed it somehow (possibly very occupied by working for an investment bank - it's known to happen ).
> 
> Housing bubbles happen everywhere, all the time. There's even one in my country at the moment - created by a gov-operated program of subsidized mortgages. But a normal housing bubble ends up simply in a decrease of property value - a problem for property investors, but not a big deal if you're just buying your house on credit (you might simply be overpaying a bit).
> 
> What happened in 2007 in US is: because of subprime mortgages people had houses they couldn't afford. They would loose homes, but this would be still a US-only problem (mostly). This would not become a worldwide financial crisis. It did through the financial system - most countries affected didn't have any mortgage problems, let alone a bubble.





notb said:


> It's also not adding anything to the discussion. The fact that the US housing bubble caused the 2007 crisis is not mystic knowledge. You can read about it in a book or wikipedia, if you've missed it somehow (possibly very occupied by working for an investment bank - it's known to happen ).
> 
> Housing bubbles happen everywhere, all the time. There's even one in my country at the moment - created by a gov-operated program of subsidized mortgages. But a normal housing bubble ends up simply in a decrease of property value - a problem for property investors, but not a big deal if you're just buying your house on credit (you might simply be overpaying a bit).
> 
> What happened in 2007 in US is: because of subprime mortgages people had houses they couldn't afford. They would loose homes, but this would be still a US-only problem (mostly). This would not become a worldwide financial crisis. It did through the financial system - most countries affected didn't have any mortgage problems, let alone a bubble.


I dont need to add anything to whatever. I know what happened, I was in the middle of the center piece when it happened. I watched very good employees get laid off. Fast forward some years and I bought my last home for cheap. Back then I lived in Las Vegas, the hardest hit city. Fast forward until this year and I sold it for triple the cost, moved to another city.


----------



## notb (Jul 13, 2017)

cdawall said:


> You are correct however not everyone thinks that way.


I know I'm correct and I would very much prefer the word "understands" instead of "thinks". This is very straightforward math - not something one can have an opinion on. 
IMO there's way too much thinking about mining and not enough understanding. Sadly, I'm not very good and convincing people that I'm right, nor am I a great teacher.

Going back to the mining: don't get me wrong - *I do think this is a good way to make money*.
I'll actually start doing this on Sunday - for fun/education mostly, because this is not the most profitable activity I can do (and I'm pretty much limited to a single GPU as far as mining at home goes).

I'm just trying to stress the fact that this is a proper business activity and it should be treated as one - especially when you're going large-scale like some of you did.

If I were mining, I would *hedge out the market risk* - the easiest one to take care of.
I know the word "hedge" could be hard to digest for some, but the core idea is pretty simple. You're producing bitcoin or ethereum, so you _short_ it. You pay the premium for the instrument, but from that moment you're basically mining at a constant price.
So, if I had a 1050Ti a month ago (like I planned, actually) I'd just short Ethereum when it was $350.
As a result, I'd earn around 60 EUR during the last 30 days, not 33 EUR that Nicehash calc shows.
And during the next month I'd make another 60 EUR compared to estimated 18 EUR = 30 * 0.6 EUR/day (current profitability according to NiceHash).

Hedging is basically the fundamental idea in producing anything.
All large companies do this.
Small companies usually don't, because they lack the knowledge. But then again: they usually produce something fairly safe and stable (e.g. family farming).
The big f..ck up of cryptocurrency mining is that tiny (usually one-man) initiatives produce one of the most volatile commodity available today.



Vya Domus said:


> Heretic real estate investments followed by a crisis happen almost like clockwork in most places around the world. It's pretty much a full on cycle at this point.


Now you're just devaluating the word "crisis".
There's always a group of people that buy houses they can't afford (i.e. via subprime mortgage). And a huge part of buyers pay more than the property is worth (i.e. bubble). But from that there's a long way to "a crisis".

The problem with US banks was not in the fact that they had some risky mortgages in portfolio. That would but be a reason to collapse.
The problem was that they also had mortgage-based financial instruments (MBS, CDO). Losses on these instruments were often many times larger than the assets these banks had. They were larger than the sum of ALL credits they had, not just the subprime ones.

Think about a very risky financial market - like FOREX. Way over 50% of FOREX speculators lose money - often life savings, company funds and so on. Both people and companies bankrupt because of FOREX losses all the time, every day, in every country that FX is legal and available. And we don't call this a crisis.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jul 14, 2017)

notb said:


> I know I'm correct and I would very much prefer the word "understands" instead of "thinks".



https://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart/

Maybe you should be posting in there instead of trolling in here.


----------



## Vya Domus (Jul 14, 2017)

notb said:


> Now you're just devaluating the word "crisis".
> There's always a group of people that buy houses they can't afford (i.e. via subprime mortgage). And a huge part of buyers pay more than the property is worth (i.e. bubble). But from that there's a long way to "a crisis".
> 
> The problem with US banks was not in the fact that they had some risky mortgages in portfolio. That would but be a reason to collapse.
> ...



I wasn't talking just about buying overpriced houses. I was referring to the practice real estate developers engage in every time they feel like the market is gaining ground. They start building in complete disarray ignoring important aspects with regards to what they are actually investing in. That's what leads to the collapse of the market every now and then. Same thing with mining , everyone jumps in at the smell of cash and starts expanding as much as possible while having little clue to what exactly is going on.


----------



## notb (Jul 14, 2017)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart/
> 
> Maybe you should be posting in there instead of trolling in here.


Show me a part of that post where I'm trolling. We're talking about cryptocurrency mining. Why don't you join?

I assume you're not referring to the subprime off-topic, because I'm not exactly the only person discussing it here. And I do believe it is pretty useful.



Vya Domus said:


> I wasn't talking just about buying overpriced houses. I was referring to the practice real estate developers engage in every time they feel like the market is gaining ground. They start building in complete disarray ignoring important aspects with regards to what they are actually investing in. That's what leads to the collapse of the market every now and then. Same thing with mining , everyone jumps in at the smell of cash and starts expanding as much as possible while having little clue to what exactly is going on.


Sure, but "a collapse of the market" you're talking about is not a financial crisis. It's not even a household mortgage crisis if the mortgages were calculated properly. 
Even if there is a bubble, so houses are overvalued, and you buy a house on a healthy credit, nothing happens. The instalment is huge, but you can afford it. And when the value of the house drops, you're not really affected, unless you plan to sell soon. It's your house - you'll most likely live there for the rest of your life or give it to your children. you simply overpaid a bit.

The problem in US was because of how subprime adjustable-rate mortgages work and how suddenly people really couldn't afford their mortgages (regardless of the nominal and real value of the property).


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 14, 2017)

notb said:


> This is pretty funny coming from you, Mr. cdawall from Texas, US - country that doesn't suck.
> Do you support strict gun control / reducing gun availability?
> 
> The average sort of miner.
> ...


So what is your point , we've heard pages worth of opinions from you against mining yet you are not getting it out right or something because your going round in circles.
If id have spent the two grand i have last year and mined etherium at a loss id have about 72 eth by now and ive gone low there.
Now your joining in the hypocrisy is amusing.
But fair enough.
I've pissed enough cash up the wall to happily write off 8cards as missadventure ,it hasn't hurt Chinese farmers pockets though so I don't think it will hurt mine.


----------



## cdawall (Jul 14, 2017)

notb said:


> I know I'm correct and I would very much prefer the word "understands" instead of "thinks". This is very straightforward math - not something one can have an opinion on.
> IMO there's way too much thinking about mining and not enough understanding. Sadly, I'm not very good and convincing people that I'm right, nor am I a great teacher.
> 
> Going back to the mining: don't get me wrong - *I do think this is a good way to make money*.
> ...



In 43 days buying and selling bitcoin mined with next to no investment (garage parts and sold items) I have netted over 4k. That doesn't include buying and selling gpus as well.


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## yotano211 (Jul 14, 2017)

cdawall said:


> In 43 days buying and selling bitcoin mined with next to no investment (garage parts and sold items) I have netted over 4k. That doesn't include buying and selling gpus as well.





cdawall said:


> In 43 days buying and selling bitcoin mined with next to no investment (garage parts and sold items) I have netted over 4k. That doesn't include buying and selling gpus as well.


You live in a big city, I live in a city with 500k people and can still find some gpus here and there. My city is not very tech savy, more like pill popping savy.


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## dorsetknob (Jul 14, 2017)

Interesting article here

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/07/13/bitcoins_might_just_vanish_into_the_ether/

From Article

The community-driven organization overseeing Bitcoin on Wednesday warned that any Bitcoins received after Monday, July 31, 2017 at GMT-0700 may vanish into thin air or be rejected as invalid.

Bitcoin.org said that at the end of the month, Bitcoin confirmation scores – a number that represents the difficulty of altering the associated transaction – may become unreliable for an unknown period.

"This means that any Bitcoins you receive after that time may later disappear from your wallet or be a type of Bitcoin that other people will not accept as payment


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## fullinfusion (Jul 14, 2017)

^
that's a burn



hat said:


> *Finally shipped!!* They'll be here Friday via FedEx, just in time for the weekend.
> 
> I've been pondering this question on my own, but I figured I'd gather some opinions on it anyway. I have some MX-4, should I replace the thermal paste for better temps on these things, or wouldn't it matter much? Guess it would be best to see how they do before I go mucking around with them. Just thinking aloud, I guess...


Are they there yet huh huh! want some pix of the goodness you've been waiting so long for


----------



## notb (Jul 14, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> So what is your point , we've heard pages worth of opinions from you against mining yet you are not getting it out right or something because your going round in circles.


I'm not against mining. I'm only pointing out this is risky and should be done with care.


> If id have spent the two grand i have last year and mined etherium at a loss id have about 72 eth by now and ive gone low there.
> Now your joining in the hypocrisy is amusing.


You'd have 72 eth so what? I don't understand this part.


> it hasn't hurt Chinese farmers pockets though so I don't think it will hurt mine.


Chinese coin farms are well organized businesses. They're modeling cryptocurrencies, hedging and diversifying investments.
As I said earlier: you can make a profit on mining even if the actual rates are below energy cost at given moment.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 14, 2017)

notb said:


> I'm not against mining. I'm only pointing out this is risky and should be done with care.
> 
> You'd have 72 eth so what? I don't understand this part.
> 
> ...


72 x £150 = £10,800 at its high of £300 i would have doubled that , easily it would have been worth that risk , but I didn't take it that time.
Risky is chasing after some prick in a van while angry after he just tried to ram you off the road a second time ,the first due to his stupidity ,turning left onto and off a roundabout while i was on his left legally going straight on , the second as i was about to overtake him stop n batter him.
At that moment i decided i was being a dick, and reconsidered , there could have been three or more in the van or one guy with the right fist and it wasn't worth it.

Point is you can have your shit wiped clean at any moment in life , straight out of the blue while cruising home from your safe blue collar ,no risky decisions job, having never even tried loads of Risky shit you might actually enjoy.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 14, 2017)

notb said:


> I assume you're not referring to the subprime off-topic, because I'm not exactly the only person discussing it here. And I do believe it is pretty useful.



It's completely offtopic and completely debatable how you present it, which is only furthering the offtopic discussion.  Please stop.

As for "why mine?," I'd guess it's because we are NERDS!


----------



## Sasqui (Jul 14, 2017)

cdawall said:


> In 43 days buying and selling bitcoin mined with next to no investment (garage parts and sold items) I have netted over 4k. That doesn't include buying and selling gpus as well.



That's pretty cool 

I made about $320 in two days selling two 290x's on eBay, lol  ...as opposed to selling them 3 months ago for $160 each.  Timing is everything, the price of those has dropped by about $75 since then.

Bitcoin has been dropping a bit this week:  http://www.coindesk.com/price/


----------



## notb (Jul 14, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> 72 x £150 = £10,800 at its high of £300 i would have doubled that , easily it would have been worth that risk , but I didn't take it that time.


You could have simply bought ETH.
We're supposedly talking about pros and cons of mining, yet most arguments I receive are about investing in cryptocurrencies (i.e. owning them).

Mining is about production. You spend some resources and you end up with a commodity.
If you keep this commodity instead of selling it instantly, this turns into a speculative investment.


> Point is you can have your shit wiped clean at any moment in life , straight out of the blue while cruising home from your safe blue collar ,no risky decisions job, having never even tried loads of Risky shit you might actually enjoy.


I don't see what you're trying to say here, to be honest. I do understand the words, but you lost me on the relevance.


R-T-B said:


> As for "why mine?," I'd guess it's because we are NERDS!


Exactly.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 14, 2017)

notb said:


> You could have simply bought ETH.
> We're supposedly talking about pros and cons of mining, yet most arguments I receive are about investing in cryptocurrencies (i.e. owning them).
> 
> Mining is about production. You spend some resources and you end up with a commodity.
> ...


In short then 

Feck it, its speculation so is life.
And life can end in a snap so double feck it.


----------



## hat (Jul 15, 2017)

Well, cards are running. Now I have to decide whether or not to overclock. They're Micron memory chips, so I can probably get somewhere around +400, but I don't want to send these cards to an early grave by stressing them out too much with an overclock like that. They're cooking too... should they be running this hot? Thermal place replacement in order? Also, why is my memory running at 1901MHz when it's supposed to be 2002?





















cdawall said:


> Well for those watching the market zcash is where it is at right now. Highest conversion rate I have seen in a while.
> 
> My rigs are sitting at 8000 sols/s give or take which is back around 70-80 USD a day.
> 
> I shoupd be a smidgen higher, but cannot get to my furys to swap them over.



Doesn't Nicehash automatically make the switch anyway? Or am I missing something?


----------



## toilet pepper (Jul 15, 2017)

hat said:


> Well, cards are running. Now I have to decide whether or not to overclock. They're Micron memory chips, so I can probably get somewhere around +400, but I don't want to send these cards to an early grave by stressing them out too much with an overclock like that. They're cooking too... should they be running this hot? Thermal place replacement in order? Also, why is my memory running at 1901MHz when it's supposed to be 2002?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yup! Those are running hot. Try fixing the fan profile. Mine doesnt go above 61°c when mining. Fan speed is around 40% though. Overclock the memory and lower the power limit as well. You'd probably get the same hashraye at lower consumption.


Edit: didn't see they were blower fans but lowering power limit might help.


----------



## Vya Domus (Jul 15, 2017)

hat said:


> Well, cards are running. Now I have to decide whether or not to overclock. They're Micron memory chips, so I can probably get somewhere around +400, but I don't want to send these cards to an early grave by stressing them out too much with an overclock like that. They're cooking too... should they be running this hot? Thermal place replacement in order? Also, why is my memory running at 1901MHz when it's supposed to be 2002?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Actually I'd say they run about what is expected from a blower.


----------



## hat (Jul 15, 2017)

I've since set an aggressive fan profile. 88% fan speed at 77c.


----------



## LightningJR (Jul 15, 2017)

Yeah blower fans. Sounds about right temp wise.


----------



## hat (Jul 15, 2017)

Think replacing whatever thermal paste is on there with some swanky MX-4 would help?


----------



## Vya Domus (Jul 15, 2017)

hat said:


> Think replacing whatever thermal paste is on there with some swanky MX-4 would help?





hat said:


> I've since set an aggressive fan profile. 88% fan speed at 77c.



Now that I think about it , 77c at 88% fan speed is kinda high , might be a case of poor TIM. How many intake fans do you have ?


----------



## hat (Jul 15, 2017)

None, actually. My case isn't the greatest for airflow. There's a big vent in the side where the video cards are, though, so they should have no problem pulling in fresh air.

Any ideas why my memory is running slower than reported? Maybe GPU-Z detected it wrong on the front page?


----------



## Vya Domus (Jul 15, 2017)

hat said:


> Any ideas why my memory is running slower than reported? Maybe GPU-Z detected it wrong on the front page?



Use some msi afterburner and see what that reports. I suppose you can up the clock to the stock  one though it is strange why it doesn't reach it by default.



hat said:


> None, actually. My case isn't the greatest for airflow. There's a big vent in the side where the video cards are, though, so they should have no problem pulling in fresh air.



I would try adding some though. Or remove the side panel entirety , see if that helps with the temps.


----------



## hat (Jul 15, 2017)

Afterburner reports 3802, which coincides with that 1901 GPU-Z is reporting. The front page of GPU-Z reports 2002, though. If I increase the memory clock by +200 in Afterburner, GPU-Z changes to show 2102MHz on the front page, and reads 2000MHz on the sensors tab. Seems the sensor reads 100MHz lower than it should be regardless of what I set it to.


----------



## mstenholm (Jul 15, 2017)

Vya Domus said:


> Use some msi afterburner and see what that reports. I suppose you can up the clock to the stock  one though it is strange why it doesn't reach it by default.
> .



I got the same problem with my GTX 1070 and my old (but different) platform. AB is your friend. Different drivers, MSI supplied OC SW with the card and different GPU-Z versions did not solve it. HWinfo reports the same running speed as AB and GPU-Z btw.
Edit: Ninja...


----------



## Vya Domus (Jul 15, 2017)

hat said:


> Afterburner reports 3802, which coincides with that 1901 GPU-Z is reporting. The front page of GPU-Z reports 2002, though. If I increase the memory clock by +200 in Afterburner, GPU-Z changes to show 2102MHz on the front page, and reads 2000MHz on the sensors tab. Seems the sensor reads 100MHz lower than it should be regardless of what I set it to.



The card could be throttling or something then. Not sure why though.


----------



## hat (Jul 15, 2017)

Nah, I doubt it's throttling. I'm suspecting some errata with the sensor or maybe the driver... I dunno.


----------



## Finners (Jul 15, 2017)

hat said:


> Afterburner reports 3802, which coincides with that 1901 GPU-Z is reporting. The front page of GPU-Z reports 2002, though. If I increase the memory clock by +200 in Afterburner, GPU-Z changes to show 2102MHz on the front page, and reads 2000MHz on the sensors tab. Seems the sensor reads 100MHz lower than it should be regardless of what I set it to.



Mining just doesn't seem to make the memory go to its highest state, I end up running a +800 offset when mining that gives the same speed if i were running +600 when gaming 9200Mhz. Lower your power limit too. I run at 52% that gives me 0.775v core voltage and a core speed of ~1450Mhz and my hashrate on ETH is ~32.5Mh/s


----------



## hat (Jul 15, 2017)

@Finners that's some valuable information, thanks. Not sure if I'm gonna be lowering my power limit, because I'll probably end up mining more than just ethereum as Nicehash automatically switches to whatever it thinks the most profitable algorithm is.

Replacing the stock paste with MX-4 doesn't seem to have helped very much. Temps are about the same.


----------



## hat (Jul 16, 2017)

BTC under $2000 now. wth?


----------



## FireFox (Jul 16, 2017)

hat said:


> BTC under $2000 now. wth?



Buy now sell later.


----------



## hat (Jul 16, 2017)

Mine now sell later*

That's my mantra. I'll use what I need to, but I plan on riding this out and hopefully come out on top once things are in the upswing again... Only this time I'll be ready for it. I still plan on expanding when possible. I don't know what things will be like when I can, but if I were to do it now, I'd put two GTX1080s in my secondary system (so the more powerful card isn't affected by playing games) and the other parts to make it work. Celeron, cheap ram and board, good power supply. After that I might consider an ASIC miner, like that S9 or whatever I mentioned weeks ago.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 16, 2017)

So far i have seen none of you put attention to what @dorsetknob posted.


----------



## hat (Jul 16, 2017)

Yeah, I dunno what to say about that. I admit I don't know too much about Bitcoin (or cryptocurrencies in general) as far as what happens "behind the scenes". I'm hopeful that whatever happens, the storm will blow over and all will return to normal before too long. Maybe this is why the market is going down, uncertainty over this issue? I don't know who's in control here, but it's certainly not me. I'm just a cog in the machine trying to make good.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 16, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> So far i have seen none of you put attention to what @dorsetknob posted.


I've been googling the issue for days and still have no clue what I can do or should do about it , so my opinion is by and large just ,. Arrgghhhhhh and quite useless.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 16, 2017)

Because i don't know what it could happen i will transfer all what i have mined to my bank account.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 16, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> So far i have seen none of you put attention to what @dorsetknob posted.



It's not a big deal, though it probably has artificially shaken up value.  Most exchanges will simply wait for many more confirmations than the usual 6.



Knoxx29 said:


> Because i don't know what it could happen i will transfer all what i have mined to my bank account.



You can't lose any already transfered coins, it only affects new transfers.  That said, your coins value may drop until this all blows over.

It's essentially caused by a protocol update.  Further reading:  https://bitcoin.org/en/alert/2017-07-12-potential-split


----------



## notb (Jul 17, 2017)

hat said:


> BTC under $2000 now. wth?


It was $2000 just 2 months ago. What's the matter with you people? 


Knoxx29 said:


> Buy now sell later.


It is "buy low, sell high". And it isn't _low_ yet. Wait for $1500.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 17, 2017)

notb said:


> It is "buy low, sell high". And it isn't _low_ yet. Wait for $1500.



That is indeed what I would do, though buying now wouldn't be a terrible idea if it hits $50,000 later this decade like some are calling for:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...000-is-latest-call-from-prolific-stock-picker


----------



## FireFox (Jul 17, 2017)

notb said:


> It was $2000 just 2 months ago. What's the matter with you people?
> 
> It is "buy low, sell high". And it isn't _low_ yet. Wait for $1500.



That's what i meant.

Buy low = buy now 
Sell high = sell later


----------



## de.das.dude (Jul 17, 2017)

Hi.. I lost my wallet with 0.76BTC..

would it be worthwile to mine on my present system?? i have a HD 7790 and a FX8320?


----------



## notb (Jul 17, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> That's what i meant.
> 
> Buy low = buy now
> Sell high = sell later


An assumption that BTC price could already be considered low (at $2000) is pretty optimistic. Once again: this is a price we had just 2 months ago. At the end of 2016 it was under $1000.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 17, 2017)

notb said:


> An assumption that BTC price could already be considered low (at $2000) is pretty optimistic.



$2000 it is not low but if it goes under $1700/$1600 then wouldn't be a bad time to buy and sell it later.


----------



## hat (Jul 17, 2017)

What are the dangers of mining on a GPU, honestly? It can't be any worse than running folding@home? I don't recall seeing many people saying their folding cards died...


----------



## cdawall (Jul 17, 2017)

hat said:


> What are the dangers of mining on a GPU, honestly? It can't be any worse than running folding@home? I don't recall seeing many people saying their folding cards died...



Most GPU miners don't give a rats ass about artifacts as long as the clocks are stable. A lot of cards end up with bad memory.


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 17, 2017)

hat said:


> What are the dangers of mining on a GPU, honestly? It can't be any worse than running folding@home? I don't recall seeing many people saying their folding cards died...


mamy cards have died folding. Many cards have died mining as well.


----------



## yotano211 (Jul 17, 2017)

EarthDog said:


> mamy cards have died folding. Many cards have died mining as well.


I've had 4 die on me for mining, i clocked the memory too high for long periods. I RMA'ed them.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 17, 2017)

EarthDog said:


> mamy cards have died folding. Many cards have died mining as well.


For me i used 8 maybe 9 cards folding and all lived on until thoroughly useless or are still in use, cant really say what mining will do but low temps helps and i cool them adequately so ill get a few years out of them ,my 480(580bios+) have never been above 56 and their vrms never above 70 ,that kind of cooling does wonders for longevity even at max stable clocks though obviously you don't mine at max 

Err and mamy cards , funny if odd


----------



## hat (Jul 17, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Most GPU miners don't give a rats ass about artifacts as long as the clocks are stable. A lot of cards end up with bad memory.





EarthDog said:


> mamy cards have died folding. Many cards have died mining as well.





yotano211 said:


> I've had 4 die on me for mining, i clocked the memory too high for long periods. I RMA'ed them.





theoneandonlymrk said:


> For me i used 8 maybe 9 cards folding and all lived on until thoroughly useless or are still in use, cant really say what mining will do but low temps helps and i cool them adequately so ill get a few years out of them ,my 480(580bios+) have never been above 56 and their vrms never above 70 ,that kind of cooling does wonders for longevity even at max stable clocks though obviously you don't mine at max
> 
> Err and mamy cards , funny if odd



Sounds like the result of less than proper overclocking. I've clocked mine up for very short periods of time, thinking about how I can earn more with higher clocks... then I reset to stock because I don't want to risk losing my cards to overclocking, nor do I feel like taking the time to do it properly. I know about temps too, which is why I set a really aggressive fan curve. It starts out at 40%, then up to 80% at 50c, and 100% at 60c. My cards usually hover around 70c at 100% fan speed now. I don't have the greatest cooling with these blower style coolers, so, yeah... Kinda wishing I would have paid a little more for the one with the better cooler, but what's done is done and the card itself is more or less the same anyway.

If there was an easy way to clock both cards at the same time the right way, I might consider it, but easy way and right way rarely coexist.


----------



## FireFox (Jul 17, 2017)

EarthDog said:


> mamy cards have died folding.



Does your mamy folds


----------



## yotano211 (Jul 18, 2017)

hat said:


> Sounds like the result of less than proper overclocking. I've clocked mine up for very short periods of time, thinking about how I can earn more with higher clocks... then I reset to stock because I don't want to risk losing my cards to overclocking, nor do I feel like taking the time to do it properly. I know about temps too, which is why I set a really aggressive fan curve. It starts out at 40%, then up to 80% at 50c, and 100% at 60c. My cards usually hover around 70c at 100% fan speed now. I don't have the greatest cooling with these blower style coolers, so, yeah... Kinda wishing I would have paid a little more for the one with the better cooler, but what's done is done and the card itself is more or less the same anyway.
> 
> If there was an easy way to clock both cards at the same time the right way, I might consider it, but easy way and right way rarely coexist.


The ones that died where crap anyways. The memory did not overclock that high. The ones that died where all Nvdia 1060 3gb, memory overclock on those averaged 200-300mhz on the memory, the rest of the 1060s are at 550mhz overclock.


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 18, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> For me i used 8 maybe 9 cards folding and all lived on until thoroughly useless or are still in use, cant really say what mining will do but low temps helps and i cool them adequately so ill get a few years out of them ,my 480(580bios+) have never been above 56 and their vrms never above 70 ,that kind of cooling does wonders for longevity even at max stable clocks though obviously you don't mine at max
> 
> Err and mamy cards , funny if odd





Knoxx29 said:


> Does your mamy folds


The autocorrect on my phone doesn't work well... ok, at all. And Im lazy.


----------



## de.das.dude (Jul 18, 2017)

hat said:


> Sounds like the result of less than proper overclocking. I've clocked mine up for very short periods of time, thinking about how I can earn more with higher clocks... then I reset to stock because I don't want to risk losing my cards to overclocking, nor do I feel like taking the time to do it properly. I know about temps too, which is why I set a really aggressive fan curve. It starts out at 40%, then up to 80% at 50c, and 100% at 60c. My cards usually hover around 70c at 100% fan speed now. I don't have the greatest cooling with these blower style coolers, so, yeah... Kinda wishing I would have paid a little more for the one with the better cooler, but what's done is done and the card itself is more or less the same anyway.
> 
> If there was an easy way to clock both cards at the same time the right way, I might consider it, but easy way and right way rarely coexist.


since no one is replying. ill latch on to you 

can i mine worthwile on my HD 7790? its a ghz one with good clocks.


also any good way to get started?


----------



## notb (Jul 18, 2017)

de.das.dude said:


> can i mine worthwile on my HD 7790? its a ghz one with good clocks.
> also any good way to get started?


Get a different GPU. You won't make a profit with this one.


----------



## de.das.dude (Jul 18, 2017)

notb said:


> Get a different GPU. You won't make a profit with this one.




no decent GPUs are available in my country ATM. AMD were always out of the question, as very few stock came here.

what about a GTX 1060??


----------



## Vya Domus (Jul 18, 2017)

de.das.dude said:


> what about a GTX 1060??



Will you make a profit ? Yes. Is it worth it ? Probably not.

Just for reference I have a 1060 and I made a quick estimate and right now I would make about 600$ a year in ETH. That is with the current situation and without factoring in what I paid for the card. Not to mention that I'd have to run the card 24/7.


----------



## notb (Jul 18, 2017)

de.das.dude said:


> no decent GPUs are available in my country ATM. AMD were always out of the question, as very few stock came here.
> 
> what about a GTX 1060??


If you really insist on mining, you can check here:
https://www.nicehash.com/?p=calc
The list of equipment is somehow limited, but fairly OK for latest GPUs.
7790 is not listed, so I assumed performance around ~60% of 7870, resulting in negative cashflow.

Basically, you have to consider just how bad this moment is to get into mining. Cards are still expensive because of the profitability explosion we've had in June (the one that, as I'm sure, has drawn you to this idea). At the same time profitability is more or less on a level we've seen in early 2017 - when hardly anyone cared about mining...

India has pretty cheap electricity, but if cards cost as much as in Europe, you're looking at ROI > 1 year. And since this is (I assume) your main desktop, 24/7 mining seems unlikely.


----------



## cdawall (Jul 18, 2017)

Joining now probably won't be the best time let bitcoin crash one or two more times so the speculators get out


----------



## verycharbroiled (Jul 18, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Joining now probably won't be the best time let bitcoin crash one or two more times so the speculators get out



yeah this seems to be a good time to coast and HODL.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 19, 2017)

Finally got 3x580s I've had on preorder nearly a month and a half , it is quite tempting to put them on ebay but i quite like the look of these saphire pulses .


----------



## hat (Jul 19, 2017)

Anyone see about that McAffe guy thinks bitcoin is gonna be worth 500k in 3 years? Personally I think that's a bit on the high side.


----------



## Vya Domus (Jul 19, 2017)

hat said:


> Anyone see about that McAffe guy thinks bitcoin is gonna be worth 500k in 3 years? Personally I think that's a bit on the high side.



That guy himself looks to be on the high side


----------



## Outback Bronze (Jul 19, 2017)

Well it was $6 in 2012....


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 20, 2017)

Well some one just ran off with 32 million eth due to a weakness in a wallet type.


----------



## hat (Jul 20, 2017)

Ouch!^

Some issues...
Firstly, my CPU doesn't appear to be throttling properly. Even with the high performance power plan selected, sometimes it gets stuck at 1600MHz running CryptoNight. This cuts my hash rate by slightly more than half with that algorithm. At this time, C1E was already disabled in the BIOS.

Secondly, it seems my computer doesn't take two GTX1070s mining very well. All seemed good the first few days, but I woke up this morning to a black screen, which I had to hard reset from to restore normal operation. When I came home from work, it looked like my computer randomly rebooted. Power supply issue? It's a Corsair CX600w. 46A on the +12v rail for a total theoretical max of 552w +12v power... should be enough for 2 1070s, right? They're only rated to draw 150w each...

Bluescreenview tells me there was an x116 BSOD. dxgkrnl.sys crashed.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 20, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Well some one just ran off with 32 million eth due to a weakness in a wallet type.



Pretty sure you're refering to the 7 million ICO heist.  No wallet weakness that I am aware of.  Otherwise, link please.



hat said:


> Anyone see about that McAffe guy thinks bitcoin is gonna be worth 500k in 3 years? Personally I think that's a bit on the high side.



I hope you don't mean Crazy Mcafee of anti-virus fame.  He's nuts.  There are very legitimate people predicting 50k by the end of 2020 though.


----------



## Divide Overflow (Jul 20, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Pretty sure you're refering to the 7 million ICO heist.  No wallet weakness that I am aware of.  Otherwise, link please.



Different heist.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/6oalcq/important_wallets_created_with_paritys_multisig/

http://www.coindesk.com/30-million-ether-reported-stolen-parity-wallet-breach/


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 20, 2017)

Divide Overflow said:


> Different heist.
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/6oalcq/important_wallets_created_with_paritys_multisig/
> 
> http://www.coindesk.com/30-million-ether-reported-stolen-parity-wallet-breach/



Interesting.  I wonder what the selloff of these coins is going to do to value.


----------



## yotano211 (Jul 20, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Finally got 3x580s I've had on preorder nearly a month and a half , it is quite tempting to put them on ebay but i quite like the look of these saphire pulses .


I would sell them, they go for 1070 prices. Pick up some 1070s on auctions and snipe it at the last moment or find some cheap 1070s, I see some on ebay go for 400-420 sometimes.


----------



## notb (Jul 20, 2017)

hat said:


> Anyone see about that McAffe guy thinks bitcoin is gonna be worth 500k in 3 years? Personally I think that's a bit on the high side.


Why would anyone care about him? It's just a random guy on the internet.

There is a positive probability for BTC to be worth anything in [0;+inf) in the future.
Done - now we're covered on the fortune-telling.


R-T-B said:


> There are very legitimate people predicting 50k by the end of 2020 though.


You mean this guy Ronnie Moas? Legitimate? Oh come on...
The only argument he has is the limited supply of BTC, which is true, but irrelevant in the long run.


----------



## hat (Jul 20, 2017)

Strange issues over here. I had another BSOD last night apparently, so I turned my system off as I planned to reinstall Windows this morning. So, I go to my computer this morning and... nothing. It turns on, but black screen, and neither video card fan is spinning. Tried each card one at a time, nothing. Tried onboard graphics (not sure if it was ever actually enabled or not, I tried clearing CMOS, but it looks like CMOS never actually cleared), nothing. Tried my old 660 Ti... it boots. Tried one GTX1070, it boots. Tried both, it boots. Fired up Nicehash, crash to black screen in 5 seconds. Reboot, fire up Nicehash again, running fine so far.

I'm thinking power supply issue... but that doesn't explain why my computer wouldn't even start up this morning. It would explain crashes to me, but not why it wouldn't even start up. I did accidentally run the video memory at +600 for a moderate period of time (8 hours or so), but it ran fine that whole time and I've since reset it, as soon as I realized it was doing that.

Ugh, reinstalled Windows and now I'm seeing the miner (sometimes, not always) crash immediately upon startup. Fans locked at 100%, sometimes the desktop comes back, sometimes black screen.


----------



## Outback Bronze (Jul 20, 2017)

hat said:


> Strange issues over here. I had another BSOD last night apparently, so I turned my system off as I planned to reinstall Windows this morning. So, I go to my computer this morning and... nothing. It turns on, but black screen, and neither video card fan is spinning. Tried each card one at a time, nothing. Tried onboard graphics (not sure if it was ever actually enabled or not, I tried clearing CMOS, but it looks like CMOS never actually cleared), nothing. Tried my old 660 Ti... it boots. Tried one GTX1070, it boots. Tried both, it boots. Fired up Nicehash, crash to black screen in 5 seconds. Reboot, fire up Nicehash again, running fine so far.
> 
> I'm thinking power supply issue... but that doesn't explain why my computer wouldn't even start up this morning. It would explain crashes to me, but not why it wouldn't even start up. I did accidentally run the video memory at +600 for a moderate period of time (8 hours or so), but it ran fine that whole time and I've since reset it, as soon as I realized it was doing that.
> 
> Ugh, reinstalled Windows and now I'm seeing the miner (sometimes, not always) crash immediately upon startup. Fans locked at 100%, sometimes the desktop comes back, sometimes black screen.



You got SLI enabled while mining?

I was having some issues also but because SLI was enabled. Once I disabled it, all was good.


----------



## cdawall (Jul 20, 2017)

Outback Bronze said:


> You got SLI enabled while mining?
> 
> I was having some issues also but because SLI was enabled. Once I disabled it, all was good.



My gaming rig I left it enabled without issue, but I had one come into the shop with problems because it was enabled. Seems to be related to the driver loads from what I can tell.


----------



## hat (Jul 20, 2017)

Nooooooooo, never. I'm totally against multi gpu setups (at least SLI/Xfire, running multiple compute cards like this is fine by me).

To recap, some quick bullet points (and some updated information)

•Ran fine for a few days until issues arose
•Issues include BSOD, hard locked black screen, driver crash, PC not booting after shut down
•PC can fail to boot even with my old GTX660 Ti installed, no GTX1070 in system
•Already reinstalled Windows, issues persist
•GPU temps always under 80*c, usually hover at 70*c

So... leaning towards power supply issue, but I can't see how, when the system fails to boot (some fans come on but no signal, neither video card fan spins, same thing happened with my 660 Ti when I tried it, no signal, fans didn't spin), and I should have plenty of +12v power with this power supply for what I'm running. I know the CX600 isn't the greatest power supply, but it should handle two 1070s. I can't see how it could be a motherboard problem considering I've had this board for ages with no issue, or a problem with either 1070 when the system fails to boot with the old 660 Ti.


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## fullinfusion (Jul 21, 2017)

hat said:


> Nooooooooo,  I can't see how it could be a motherboard problem considering I've had this board for ages


I think you answered your own question hat. Youve had the system forever and you introduce a couple of cards and mine for coins.. think of it this way, the machine has many many hours on it and the added stress was just to much for it to take... Personally I think the mobo took a bad shit at the worst time possible for ya. Or the psu took a dump, it happens all the time.. but I'm leaning on the mobo. 

You did say you re pasted them cards.. all went well?


----------



## notb (Jul 21, 2017)

fullinfusion said:


> You did say you re pasted them cards.. all went well?


The first thought I had.
It's 2017. Good quality graphic cards are almost noiseless and well within acceptable temp thresholds. Seriously, why take the risk of damaging the card while changing the TIM? 
Also, I assume that this voids the warranty as well. There goes the mining profitability...


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 21, 2017)

notb said:


> You mean this guy Ronnie Moas? Legitimate? Oh come on...
> The only argument he has is the limited supply of BTC, which is true, but irrelevant in the long run.



Ronnie Moas wasn't even on my rader, really.

And aparently 500,000 is right if you ask some:

http://www.businessinsider.com/bitc...0-by-2030-first-snapchat-investor-says-2017-3


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## Outback Bronze (Jul 21, 2017)

cdawall said:


> My gaming rig I left it enabled without issue, but I had one come into the shop with problems because it was enabled. Seems to be related to the driver loads from what I can tell.



My issues also might have stemmed from having too many PCI-E lanes going on, was doing past 20 on this Z170. Once I ripped the last card out and disabled SLI I didn't have any drama's.


----------



## cdawall (Jul 21, 2017)

Outback Bronze said:


> My issues also might have stemmed from having too many PCI-E lanes going on, was doing past 20 on this Z170. Once I ripped the last card out and disabled SLI I didn't have any drama's.



My z170 boxes run 3+ cards each


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## de.das.dude (Jul 21, 2017)

notb said:


> The first thought I had.
> It's 2017. Good quality graphic cards are almost noiseless and well within acceptable temp thresholds. Seriously, why take the risk of damaging the card while changing the TIM?
> Also, I assume that this voids the warranty as well. There goes the mining profitability...




Changing thermal paste is acceptable by most manufacturers.
I know sapphire, and xfx will still respect their warranty. I had mailed them about it.

TBH the poor quality paste that they used to give, needed to be changed after 1.5 years.

If you are unsure, you can drop a mail to them.


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## notb (Jul 21, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Ronnie Moas wasn't even on my rader, really.
> 
> And aparently 500,000 is right if you ask some:
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.com/bitc...0-by-2030-first-snapchat-investor-says-2017-3


Again, this is built around the limited supply of BTC. And these guys aren't making a stock recommendation. They are SELLING you Bitcoin - they're both invested in the idea.

But most importantly: they estimate a market cap for BTC of 10 trillion USD (10^13) in 2030.
First, a quick reminder: M1 money is all cash and instantly available bank deposits (so what you can instantly pay with). This is the monetary aggregate which BTC mimics.
Just to show you how absurdly large this is: M1 aggregate for USD is ~3 trillion USD.
But it's get better. M1 money for the whole world is estimated at ~29 trillion USD.
So *BTC would have to replace 1/3 of world's money *(1/4 if you include 2% inflation).

And keep in mind a lot of M1 is locked in banks.

The scenario they're dreaming could be possible (but far from sure), if BTC was the only electronic payment method. It isn't and it's unlikely it will ever be.
It's way more probable that we'll get many new blockchains that'll compete with it.



de.das.dude said:


> Changing thermal paste is acceptable by most manufacturers.


I meant that damaging a card as a result of changing the compound will not be covered.
I don't think it'll void the warranty instantly, but I'm sure it's a lot harder to have a successful RMA afterwards.

E.g. flooding electronic equipment doesn't void the warranty as such, but next time you'll send it for repair/refund, they'll tell you that there are signs of water inside and you've used it inappropriately.


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## hat (Jul 21, 2017)

fullinfusion said:


> I think you answered your own question hat. Youve had the system forever and you introduce a couple of cards and mine for coins.. think of it this way, the machine has many many hours on it and the added stress was just to much for it to take... Personally I think the mobo took a bad shit at the worst time possible for ya. Or the psu took a dump, it happens all the time.. but I'm leaning on the mobo.
> 
> You did say you re pasted them cards.. all went well?


Yeah, I'm sure both 1070s are fine considering the system does the same with my old card. It's mobo or PSU and not sure which. Personally leaning on PSU myself... We'll see.

It sounds like the system tries to boot, loses power, tries to boot again, loses power... So on and so forth like that. I can tell by sounds made by HDD and optical drive. While this is going on, I can watch the PSU fan spin, stop, spin again... My case fan never spins.


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## hat (Jul 21, 2017)

Welp. I'm changing my vote to "catastrophic failure". 












I'm guessing its motherboard and PSU replacement time. This begs the question, how did this  happen in the first place? Was the power supply bad? Did the graphics cards draw too much power? Mobo or PSU at fault here?


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## Divide Overflow (Jul 21, 2017)

Sounds like someone needs more power.


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## hat (Jul 21, 2017)

What I'm not understanding is the graphics cards shouldn't really have been pulling much power from the board. They take 8 pin pcie connectors (which look completely undamaged by the way) which are rated for 150w, which is what these cards pull. If pcie provides 150w and the cards pull 150w, why is it pulling so much from the board?


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## infrared (Jul 21, 2017)

Ah, was just a bit of a high resistance connection Hat, it would have been getting hot anyway and the extra bit of current pushed it too far. The cable side of the connector springs around the pin and if it's a bit loose or some dust gets on the pin it can cause a high resistance connection. They heat up which increases the resistance further which makes it get gotter... And so on until the connector melts and the connection breaks down. I bet other than the connectors that'd be fine.

If it's a modular psu you can get a new 24 pin cable and give the pins on the motherboard a close look, give the affected pins a scrape to get any crud off them, maybe use a paint brush with some isopropyl alcohol too.

Bet you it'll work again


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## hat (Jul 21, 2017)

infrared said:


> Ah, was just a bit of a high resistance connection Hat, it would have been getting hot anyway and the extra bit of current pushed it too far. The cable side of the connector springs around the pin and if it's a bit loose or some dust gets on the pin it can cause a high resistance connection. They heat up which increases the resistance further which makes it get gotter... And so on until the connector melts and the connection breaks down. I bet other than the connectors that'd be fine.
> 
> If it's a modular psu you can get a new 24 pin cable and give the pins on the motherboard a close look, give the affected pins a scrape to get any crud off them, maybe use a paint brush with some isopropyl alcohol too.
> 
> Bet you it'll work again



Shit, son. Your post saved me a lot of trouble. I just cleaned up as best as I could and put it back together and it works. But now, how do I not burn it up again? As I said before, I see no reason for it to burn up at all... the GTX1070s eat 150w each, but the 8 pin pci-e power connector provides exactly that, so they shouldn't be drawing much power from the board.

Some things I'd like to go over:
The board only takes a 4 pin CPU power connector, not an 8 pin. Is this _just_ for the CPU, or does this power also go elsewhere? In other words, would a board with an 8 pin CPU power connector be more reliable when it comes to not burning up the 24 pin while mining?

My board has no additional power connectors. I've seen plenty in the past that had a spot to plug in an extra molex or even floppy power connector, but my board has nothing of the sort. Is this sort of thing a requirement for running multiple video cards?

I thought the whole idea behind building a mining computer was cheap board, cpu and ram, but badass video cards and power supply. How can two GTX1070s burn up a 24 pin when they only draw 150w and the power connector provides 150w, and others are stuffing computers to the gills with 4 or more cards?


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## Outback Bronze (Jul 22, 2017)

cdawall said:


> My z170 boxes run 3+ cards each



You using PCI-E risers?


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## cdawall (Jul 22, 2017)

Outback Bronze said:


> You using PCI-E risers?



Depends on specific rig some yes some no


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 22, 2017)

I have come to a conclusion, im never fitting a hdd as a main drive again, im having issues with my mining rig since fitting two new cards but those issues pale in comparison to the anger hdds create just using the pc grrrr.
Rant over peace out.


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## cdawall (Jul 23, 2017)

Well turns out people will pay for bios mods

Oh and I hate the hynix based msi 8gb cards.


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## fullinfusion (Jul 23, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Well turns out people will pay for bios mods
> 
> Oh and I hate the hynix based msi 8gb cards.


580's or 480's?

I lucked out and got the Sammy memory on mine.

Check this shit out lol.. 4000 gpu's sucking a mega watt and those cooling fans pulling a shit pile too


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## cdawall (Jul 23, 2017)

All 580's one 4gb card the rest 8gb


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## verycharbroiled (Jul 23, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> I have come to a conclusion, im never fitting a hdd as a main drive again, im having issues with my mining rig since fitting two new cards but those issues pale in comparison to the anger hdds create just using the pc grrrr.
> Rant over peace out.



yup, ssds in a miner are almost a must have. miner, driver, os updates, any reboots etc are sooo much faster. especially when your troubleshooting stuff that locks the system and you are constantly rebooting it.

i got tired of sitting by my miner for minutes at a time waiting for something to finish long ago. rig now has a m2 256 ssd, two less cables..


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## cdawall (Jul 24, 2017)

I really need to move over to racks vs cases.

Current setups are about maxed out in their boxes, I have a 1070, 390, 980, 960 and 480 all out for RMA. Only the 390 was actually used for mining prior to. Turns out GPU's can die and have zero to do with mining.

Rig 1

6700T
Asus Z170 gaming pro
2x8GB DDR4
PM871 128GB M.2
3x Zotac 1060 3GB
1x GB 980Ti reference
Seasonic SnowSilent 750w (this has me nervous)

Rig 2

6700T
Supermicro C7Z170-SQ
1x8GB DDR4
1TB Vraptor (I need to swap the RMA ssd I got for this back in lol)
3x Asus Turbo 1070
Antec TPQ1200

Rig 3

6850K
GB X99P-SLI
12GB DDR4
Samsung 128GB "HCHP"
2x Zotac GTX 1060 3GB
1x MSI Aero GTX 1070
1x Asus GTX 980Ti
Antec TPQ850 (Also has me a bit nervous)

Rig 4

5820K
Asrock X99 extreme 4
2x8GB DDR4
Samsung 256GB PM951
2x GB GTX 980Ti Gaming G1
1x Zotac GTX 1060 3GB
Antec TPQ1000


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## hat (Jul 24, 2017)

Why are you nervous about a seasonic power supply? And why did my rig burn up when people are running over 2x the cards I am on one board? "High resistance connection" maybe... But the connection is no better now than it was then, I'm sure, unless there was some huge (relatively) obstruction I didn't see. I guess I should just count my lucky stars nothing was damaged to the point of not working anymore,  whatever happened...


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## cdawall (Jul 24, 2017)

hat said:


> Why are you nervous about a seasonic power supply? And why did my rig burn up when people are running over 2x the cards I am on one board? "High resistance connection" maybe... But the connection is no better now than it was then, I'm sure, unless there was some huge (relatively) obstruction I didn't see. I guess I should just count my lucky stars nothing was damaged to the point of not working anymore,  whatever happened...



Pushing way to close to the edge for a 24/7 hot box setup. 96w per 1060, 150-170w for the 980ti. We will see how it does.

As for connections I had an evga750 smoke yesterday at work with a fury/980ti in it. AC cord ate it...

End goal is simple I'm going to get four rigs running all matched gpus 

6x980ti, 6x1070, 6x1060 and 6x480.


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## Divide Overflow (Jul 24, 2017)

Knoxx29 said:


> So far i have seen none of you put attention to what @dorsetknob posted.


Still unsettled and uncertain about what to expect.  New alt-coin spinoffs to mine, or just a period of instability to work through?  Does a hard fork imply the creation of a new Bitcoin alternative?  Would the difficulty start at the ground level or continue from the split?


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## hat (Jul 25, 2017)

Well, I got this in my email a few days ago



> Dear Coinbase Customer,
> 
> We are contacting you to make you aware of recent developments in a number of proposals for technical changes to Bitcoin. *All BTC stored on Coinbase will remain safe during these events described below.*
> 
> ...




So evidently there's a new standard possibly being introduced to Bitcoin, and I don't know what the effect will be. What happens if this new standard is put in place? Can I still mine into my Coinbase wallet with Nicehash, or will Nicehash use the new coin while Coinbase sticks to the old one?

I can't imagine why they would create a new type of Bitcoin with a new blockchain and all that... seems like it would harm the market. :/


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## verycharbroiled (Jul 25, 2017)

hat said:


> So evidently there's a new standard possibly being introduced to Bitcoin, and I don't know what the effect will be. What happens if this new standard is put in place? Can I still mine into my Coinbase wallet with Nicehash, or will Nicehash use the new coin while Coinbase sticks to the old one?
> 
> I can't imagine why they would create a new type of Bitcoin with a new blockchain and all that... seems like it would harm the market. :/



you should move all your btc out of coinbase and into a wallet where you have control of your private keys. that way however this goes down you will have access to coins on either side of the spilt, whereas with coinbase you will only have coins on the chain they support.

you will need to do this by july 31. to be safe i would do it on or before july 30 to give enough time for coins to confirm as confirmation times are longer (temporary measure, ie 30 confirmations instead of the usual 6 to be safe)

i mine at nicehash too and send coins to my core wallet. unsure how nicehash will select the chain they will payout to, think they are sticking the the majority chain (ie the "real" btc chain). not sure how to phrase that.


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## hat (Jul 25, 2017)

Where else can I sell my BTC for money? I already have Coinbase linked to my bank account, real easy. The nicehash wallet doesn't allow you to do that.


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## silkstone (Jul 25, 2017)

hat said:


> Where else can I sell my BTC for money? I already have Coinbase linked to my bank account, real easy. The nicehash wallet doesn't allow you to do that.



Poloniex
Bitfinex
Kraken

Though you need to go through some authentication steps.

There's also Remitano which seems pretty easy.


----------



## notb (Jul 25, 2017)

hat said:


> Where else can I sell my BTC for money? I already have Coinbase linked to my bank account, real easy. The nicehash wallet doesn't allow you to do that.


And what happened to keeping BTC because it'll be worth $500k?


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## hat (Jul 25, 2017)

silkstone said:


> Poloniex
> Bitfinex
> Kraken
> 
> ...



I'll look into those, if needed. Coinbase has authentication up the wazoo as well, so that doesn't bother me much.



notb said:


> And what happened to keeping BTC because it'll be worth $500k?



*I* never said it would be worth 500k, I mentioned that other guy did. Personally, I don't see it being worth that much.

That said, anyone know why profitability is so low compared to last month? BTC is/was close to last month's high, yet I'm still only earning around $4/day on a good day. If I had what I have last month it would have been around $10/day.


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## R-T-B (Jul 25, 2017)

hat said:


> That said, anyone know why profitability is so low compared to last month? BTC is/was close to last month's high, yet I'm still only earning around $4/day on a good day. If I had what I have last month it would have been around $10/day.



The coins that you exchange for BTC are being devalued due to massive selloffs for BTC.  Nature of the beast.


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## hat (Jul 25, 2017)

So, if Ethereum, for example, became worth $1000 tomorrow... I'd be mining it for ridiculous profit compared to now? I suspected as much.


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## notb (Jul 25, 2017)

hat said:


> *I* never said it would be worth 500k, I mentioned that other guy did. Personally, I don't see it being worth that much.


Personally, I think no one in the world does. But some would love you to believe that.


> That said, anyone know why profitability is so low compared to last month? BTC is/was close to last month's high, yet I'm still only earning around $4/day on a good day. If I had what I have last month it would have been around $10/day.


Because you're not mining BTC.
ETH was priced over $300 for most of June, even reaching $400. It's just $200 at the moment.


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## hat (Jul 25, 2017)

Yeah, I figured it was something like that. I'd like to see higher but I'm okay with current profit levels I suppose... I just hope this Bitcoin fork doesn't make things hard for me.

I got an idea. My second system has a GA-770T-USB3 board, featuring one PCI-E x16 slot, and an Athlon II x4 CPU installed. I might be able to just get a PSU and some cards, avoiding the costly upgrade I had planned initially (new board, RAM, CPU). Some questions...

Firstly, would the CPU hold it back at all? I'm aware many miners have low power CPUs like Celerons, but this chip is quite old...

Secondly, there are plenty of PCI-E x1 slots. I assume I could use risers to fill it with more cards? Are USB risers necessary, or would these work? If so, why all the hype for the USB risers? The USB risers seem less convenient than what I linked to...

Alternatively, I could just chop up the x1 slots to allow plugging an in x16 card, right? This has been done before with success a long time ago.


----------



## verycharbroiled (Jul 25, 2017)

hat said:


> I got an idea. My second system has a GA-770T-USB3 board, featuring one PCI-E x16 slot, and an Athlon II x4 CPU installed. I might be able to just get a PSU and some cards, avoiding the costly upgrade I had planned initially (new board, RAM, CPU). Some questions...
> 
> Firstly, would the CPU hold it back at all? I'm aware many miners have low power CPUs like Celerons, but this chip is quite old...
> 
> ...



cpu most likely will work, my G1840 runs around 2-5% with 5 cards.

those ribbon pcie risers are not powered, some modern cards tend to draw more power from the slot than the older cards that were the norm when those risers were used. why risk burning it up.. search around there are plenty of pics of burned ribbon risers from the btc gpu mining days.

as for cutting a pcie 1x slot to allow a 16x card in, the pcie x1 power spec is 25 watts. 16x is 75 watts. so while the card may fit in a cutout x1 slot im not sure if it would provide enough power. probably depends on the card.


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## hat (Jul 26, 2017)

I see, hence the popularity of the USB risers. They take additional power from a molex or SATA connection.

So, beefy PSU and USB risers will work in my aging secondary rig with the Athlon II x4 and GA-770T-USB3? I believe the PCI-E x1 slots are PCI-E 1.0, while the x16 slot is 2.0. Does that matter?


----------



## verycharbroiled (Jul 26, 2017)

hat said:


> So, beefy PSU and USB risers will work in my aging secondary rig with the Athlon II x4 and GA-770T-USB3? I believe the PCI-E x1 slots are PCI-E 1.0, while the x16 slot is 2.0. Does that matter?



pcie ver 1 or 2 is no problem. many miners deliberately set the pcie slots to ver 1 or 2 anyway.

on the mobo no guarantees, some older mobos can be picky with multiple videocards and that board  never expected more than one. but that one seems like it was a decent one at the time, so that helps. make sure the bios is the latest.

as for cpu ive run a dual core e7400 (much weaker than your 4 core athlon) in a miner with no probs so that should be fine.

recommend 8 gigs ram, although some get away with 4. will need a 64 bit OS, there are free *nix based mining OSs that are pretty much preconfigured for mining and run from usb, boot and go for the most part. or any old HD will do also. or run win7 or win10 64 bit.

buy a GOOD psu, i use evga g2 series. for usb risers use ver 6 or ver 7 risers (there are many old version risers floating around dont bother with them).


----------



## hat (Jul 26, 2017)

I'll probably upgrade the PSU in my main rig, get two 1080s, and put the 1070s with my current Corsair VX600w in the second rig. It's only got 2 gigs of ram though but all it will be doing is mining... I guess we'll see how that goes.

First I need to be able to afford the PSU, though.

Speaking of PSU, about that burned up 24 pin... it seems much more reliable now than it did before. I haven't had any crashes and I've been able to shut down and restart without trouble, but I still don't like those burnt up ends. How hard would it be to cut the ends off those two wires, pull them a little bit, and replace the ends with a sacrificial molex pin or something?


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## silkstone (Jul 26, 2017)

I just down clocked my 1080 to 80% and -100 MHz mem for LT use from 90% and +300 MHz Mem

For some reason I am getting screen tearing* in ME: Andromeda.

It was only on 1 mission, with large explosions and I've tested multiple other games/programs (inc. Furmark) which don't display the issue so I'm hoping it's just a problem with the game.

*I'm not sure if tearing is the right word, but I was getting big black flashing triangles where the explosions were


----------



## hat (Jul 26, 2017)

Most people lower power target and raise vram because most mining applications are heavily dependent on vram speed, core speed not so much.

If you haven't noticed it in any other game, maybe it's just that game. Could be the game not working 100% perfect with the 1080, or the drivers. These things aren't perfect all the time. I remember Red Faction having serious issues with the GeForce 8800 series.


----------



## cdawall (Jul 26, 2017)

Well I did a thing today


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 26, 2017)

Finally got my miner running , its pig ugly but it was cheap
be nice if it didnt keep falling over but for chuckles here it is , probably the most ghetto of the ghetto.

1 min you will love the front.

hit the pic size limit ill save it for later


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## horik (Jul 27, 2017)

So you ppl are keeping your coins in the exchanges or will pass them to desktop wallets before 1 of august?

Is it alowed to post links from ICOs that give tokens when registering?


----------



## verycharbroiled (Jul 27, 2017)

horik said:


> So you ppl are keeping your coins in the exchanges or will pass them to desktop wallets before 1 of august?



never keep coins on an exchange longer than needed for trading or whatever. move them to a wallet where you control the private keys.

if there is a split on aug 1st you will be at the mercy of the exchange regarding the split coins and if they will support both versions.

or the exchange may go down and you lose your coins. search for mt gox and btc-e for examples.


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## hat (Jul 27, 2017)

So, coinbase isn't safe?


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 27, 2017)

hat said:


> So, coinbase isn't safe?


I think he's a bit dramatic myself but I dunno, who does lol.
The exchange isn't overly endangered by this imho, they are not just Btc , but i sold out of btc,and left the cash ready, personally hoping for a big drop to buy back in.  Then it went up 20%

Im not talking big bucks here though either, that would likely affect my perspective.


----------



## Rehmanpa (Jul 27, 2017)

What does this split thing I keep hearing about on August 1st mean for ethereum prices?

I can cash out one eth now and I'm wondering if i should or not.


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## dorsetknob (Jul 27, 2017)

Rehmanpa said:


> What does this split thing I keep hearing about on August 1st mean for ethereum prices?



No one really knows at the moment there is lots of speculation going both ways



Rehmanpa said:


> I can cash out one eth now and I'm wondering if i should or not.



you have to chose whether your prepared to "gamble"

Cash / Coin you control  is a better bet that Someone else managing it for you  ( things can go wrong )

Coin mining at the moment is like  the volcano Etna
its Rumbling and there are small eruptions  But will it blow up big around the 1st and following week ????

Guess the miners will have wait to find out whats happening 
you don't mind waiting do you


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## hat (Jul 28, 2017)

I paid good money for mining hardware and I intend to use it, rain or shine. I see any time not mining as lost opportunity. The market may get better and thusly the rewards but at least I'm still earning some amount of BTC which may go up (or down of course) in the future.


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## notb (Jul 28, 2017)

dorsetknob said:


> Cash / Coin you control  is a better bet that Someone else managing it for you  ( things can go wrong )


Not true for cash.


> Guess the miners will have wait to find out whats happening
> you don't mind waiting do you


This would be quite funny to see a total fall of bitcoin after this change. There won't be a better moment for commercial/government cryptocurrency to step in (if they're ready) and by January mining would become a marginal activity - like it used to be in the beginning.


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## R-T-B (Jul 28, 2017)

Rehmanpa said:


> What does this split thing I keep hearing about on August 1st mean for ethereum prices?



Shouldn't be relevant at all to eth, only btc.


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## notb (Jul 28, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Shouldn't be relevant at all to eth, only btc.


You'll be very surprised. :-D


----------



## verycharbroiled (Jul 28, 2017)

Rehmanpa said:


> What does this split thing I keep hearing about on August 1st mean for ethereum prices?





R-T-B said:


> Shouldn't be relevant at all to eth, only btc.





notb said:


> You'll be very surprised. :-D



?

only btc is splitting on aug 1st AFAIK. i have btc in core 0.14.2 wallet, eth in 0.9 ethereum wallet (both are desktop wallets where i control the keys).

as for keeping coins on exchanges, my opinion is only leave them there for as long as you need it for trading then pull coins out to a wallet where you control the private keys. in general if the exchange itself, or you account at the exchange is hacked or the exchange suddenly closes there go your coins. these things have happened.

for btc exchanges and the aug 1st  btc split thing with your coins in an exchange you will only have coins on the side(s) they support. some exchanges have said they will support both coins, others may not or will not. check the exchange faq on the split.


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## R-T-B (Jul 28, 2017)

notb said:


> You'll be very surprised. :-D



Care to elaborate or...?  No one knows what'll happen in certainty, save for the foolish.


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## mad1394 (Jul 28, 2017)

I was under the impression the value of ethereum is based on the value of bitcoin. So bitcoin goes to shit so does ethereum no?


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## verycharbroiled (Jul 29, 2017)

mad1394 said:


> I was under the impression the value of ethereum is based on the value of bitcoin. So bitcoin goes to shit so does ethereum no?



they are independent.


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## cdawall (Jul 29, 2017)

verycharbroiled said:


> they are independent.



They are completely independent however the perceived value of all cryptocurrency walks a fine line


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## notb (Jul 29, 2017)

cdawall said:


> They are completely independent however the perceived value of all cryptocurrency walks a fine line


They are not independent.
It's a closed system after all. It has a specific demand for online transfers and specific supply of money (i.e. hashing potential).



R-T-B said:


> Care to elaborate or...?  No one knows what'll happen in certainty, save for the foolish.


Hence the idea of forecasting and estimating. You know... theory of probability and so on.
Your comment is very ancient. Like if your parents still believed that Zeus decides who gets struck by lightning, but you wanted to be an innovative atheist without a better theory. 

I won't add anything new to BTC situation after the modification, because I haven't analyzed this (I bet a good read can be found online).
But it's obvious that cryptocurrencies are dependent and this will affect all of them.
How - that's a different story. All 4 options are possible (BTC up/down, other up/down). But it's very unlikely that this won't affect BTC price and almost impossible that other currencies will be intact.


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## hat (Jul 29, 2017)

The way I see it, all the cryptocurrencies are connected in some way, but not directly. For example, BTC is now worth about as much as it was during the big mining boom last month, however at the moment I'm not even cracking $4/day with both my GTX1070s mining. If the value of BTC changes, the value of my mining rewards change, however, since the value of Ethereum went down, for example, I'm not making anywhere near as much running DaggerHashimoto as I would have been last month. 

I expect this "hard fork" as they call it to shake up the market a bit for sure... but to what degree and for how long I have no idea. I'd expect the value of BTC to drop, at least temporarily until some time after the network disruptions are done and over with and everybody figures out what to do after the fork. A new currency (BCC, I think it's Bitcoin Cash) will be created that operates on a different blockchain than BTC, and hence the two will be incompatible with eachother.


...Well, I think this image sums it up nicely


----------



## Rehmanpa (Jul 29, 2017)

Hoping ether goes up but in the last 48 hours it's come down again. It's quite unstable to say the least.


----------



## hat (Jul 29, 2017)

The whole damn thing seems quite unstable to me. Best bet IMO is batten down the hatches and keep mining, until you feel it's a good time to cash out. Some people stopped mining because the market isn't great right now... but stranger things have happened and if BTC becomes worth, say, $10,000 in the future, whatever I have now triples in value.


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## r9 (Jul 29, 2017)

Etherum value going from 230 to 180 and back to 230.
I just gambled that will do the same again so just bought couple etherums at $180.
I say it will bounce back to $230 in a week.


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## notb (Jul 29, 2017)

r9 said:


> Etherum value going from 230 to 180 and back to 230.
> I just gambled that will do the same again so just bought couple etherums at $180.
> I say it will bounce back to $230 in a week.


You're betting against the trend. This is exactly why people perceive trading stocks/currencies as gambling...


hat said:


> The whole damn thing seems quite unstable to me. Best bet IMO is batten down the hatches and keep mining, until you feel it's a good time to cash out. Some people stopped mining because the market isn't great right now... but stranger things have happened and if BTC becomes worth, say, $10,000 in the future, whatever I have now triples in value.


And if it's worth, say, $10 in the future, you're loosing almost everything.


hat said:


> If the value of BTC changes, the value of my mining rewards change


It doesn't. We've already told you this. You're not mining BTC. Only the ETH/USD matters for mining Ethereum.
Now, you might be depositing in BTC, i.e. what you've mined is instantly exchanged for BTC and that's what you keep in your wallet. This is a different effect. Essentially you're just buying BTC and it can change value over time. This has nothing to do with mining profitability.


----------



## hat (Jul 29, 2017)

It does when I earn, for example, 1 mBTC per day, which might be worth $3 today, but $6 tomorrow. Of course those are completely out of my ass numbers, but it shows how the profitability changes. Or, if you prefer, maybe you'd rather I call it _perceived_ profitability, since that's how _I_ see it, but it might not be technically the _correct_ way to see it. I see you throwing around concepts and terminology as if you studied some financial shit, and not knocking you for that, but I haven't, and what it boils down to for me is money is money.


----------



## notb (Jul 29, 2017)

hat said:


> It does when I earn, for example, 1 mBTC per day, which might be worth $3 today, but $6 tomorrow. Of course those are completely out of my ass numbers, but it shows how the profitability changes. Or, if you prefer, maybe you'd rather I call it _perceived_ profitability, since that's how _I_ see it, but it might not be technically the _correct_ way to see it.


You aren't mining BTC!
Your mining efficiency could be shown in BTC, but that's already recalculated using the relation between BTC and cryptocurrencies you mine (mostly ETH, I presume).

It's a simple concept. I can't believe you don't understand this after weeks of discussing in this thread... :-(
This just shows that more people should be forced to get a grasp of the "financial shit".



> I see you throwing around concepts and terminology as if you studied some financial shit, and not knocking you for that,


I studied physics, but that's irrelevant here.
The interesting part is: why do you even consider "knocking me" for using financial terminology? 

And to be honest, I'm trying to be pretty light on the financial stuff and math in these discussions. It's not like I'm attacking you with stochastic processes and partial differential equations...


> but I haven't, and what it boils down to for me is money is money.


The big problem here is that you (like most miners) don't really understand what money is and how it works.
I assume that money for you is just cash in your pocket. A thing that you can give someone for goods.
To be honest, this is enough for 99% of people on Earth in their jobs and private lives. It's even enough for most people working in banking.
But it's not enough to analyze a complicated financial instrument.


----------



## silkstone (Jul 29, 2017)

notb said:


> You aren't mining BTC!
> Your mining efficiency could be shown in BTC, but that's already recalculated using the relation between BTC and cryptocurrencies you mine (mostly ETH, I presume).
> 
> It's a simple concept. I can't believe you don't understand this after weeks of discussing in this thread... :-(
> ...



If the value of BTC changes in the time between BTC payout (from ETH) and USD payout, then the amount of money @hat makes is dependent on BTC price. Long term changes, less so. The ROI given in USD per day is soley dependent on the ETH price at the time, as you say.

@hat - You can imagine how it works ias follows: You mine ETH (or whatever) and are then paid the going rate for that ETH (be it $175 or $400/ETH) that is converted into BTC at the going rate for BTC. If you were to cash out the BTC, be it high or low, you would only get as many USD as your ETH gave you.

The middle step (ETH -> USD) doesn't actually occur, but the effect is the same.


----------



## notb (Jul 29, 2017)

silkstone said:


> If the value of BTC changes in the time between BTC payout (from ETH) and USD payout, then the amount of money @hat makes is dependent on BTC price.


Of course. I mentioned that few posts back - if he's depositing his mining results in BTC, then the BTC price becomes important. But this is just an unnecessary speculation added to the equation.

However, you have little choice with services like Nicehash, because of the weekly payments in BTC. So even if you decide to get paid ASAP, you're already affected by few days of ETH/BTC fluctuations.
In fact Nicehash is clearly lying to its customers in this sentence:
"No exchange needed; get paid directly, your payment does not depend on exchange rate fluctuations."
[https://www.nicehash.com/?p=ethereum-mining]


----------



## silkstone (Jul 29, 2017)

notb said:


> Of course. I mentioned that few posts back - if he's depositing his mining results in BTC, then the BTC price becomes important. But this is just an unnecessary speculation added to the equation.
> 
> However, you have little choice with services like Nicehash, because of the weekly payments in BTC. So even if you decide to get paid ASAP, you're already affected by few days of ETH/BTC fluctuations.
> In fact Nicehash is clearly lying to its customers in this sentence:
> ...



As far as I Understand, the conversion from ETH to BTC is instantaneous, in that regard the payment to BTC does not depend on fluctuations. 

However, as there is a minimum BTC withdrawal amount, any BTC to USD conversion would be subject to fluctuations.


----------



## hat (Jul 29, 2017)

notb said:


> You aren't mining BTC!
> Your mining efficiency could be shown in BTC, but that's already recalculated using the relation between BTC and cryptocurrencies you mine (mostly ETH, I presume).
> 
> It's a simple concept. I can't believe you don't understand this after weeks of discussing in this thread... :-(
> ...



I may have used the term "mining bitcoin" before, but I didn't use it where you quoted me. I already understand I'm not mining bitcoin, but saying "mining bitcoin" is easier than saying "running a program which automatically mines one of many cryptocurrencies based on profitability at the time, which then pays me in bitcoin". I didn't consider knocking you, I only threw that in in case you were to get offended or something, since I mentioned your postings touching on some of the technical details behind the "financial shit", that being things like money, and risk, things you seem to think most people don't understand because most people don't hold a master's degree in said financial shit. I've admitted many times I don't understand everything about this, including the way the market actually works. Maybe I don't understand the definitions of risk or money you're talking about. What I do understand is this: I saw an opportunity to make money (there's money, that is, in my pocket) by mining bitcoin (okay, not directly mining bitcoin, mining other coins and getting paid in bitcoin). I also understand it's risky, primarily because I spent a good amount of money to get started (there's the risk, this whole thing could grind to a halt and I'll make pennies on the dollar), but also because my earnings can vary wildly based on the state of the market (there's more risk, the volatile nature of the market itself). So... I know what money is, I know what mining is, and I know what the risks are (to me, personally), so I feel I know enough to proceed.



silkstone said:


> If the value of BTC changes in the time between BTC payout (from ETH) and USD payout, then the amount of money @hat makes is dependent on BTC price. Long term changes, less so. The ROI given in USD per day is soley dependent on the ETH price at the time, as you say.
> 
> @hat - You can imagine how it works ias follows: You mine ETH (or whatever) and are then paid the going rate for that ETH (be it $175 or $400/ETH) that is converted into BTC at the going rate for BTC. If you were to cash out the BTC, be it high or low, you would only get as many USD as your ETH gave you.
> 
> The middle step (ETH -> USD) doesn't actually occur, but the effect is the same.



Yeah, I get that. That's why I say bitcoin price influences my earnings... because, well, it does. The amount of bitcoin I earn changes based on how other coins, which I mine, are doing, but because I get paid in bitcoin, when the price of bitcoin changes, even though I'm not actually mining bitcoin, that also affects my earnings. If everything stayed the same except bitcoin shot up to $10,000 I'd be making over 3x as much as I am now.



notb said:


> Of course. I mentioned that few posts back - if he's depositing his mining results in BTC, then the BTC price becomes important. But this is just an unnecessary speculation added to the equation.
> 
> However, you have little choice with services like Nicehash, because of the weekly payments in BTC. So even if you decide to get paid ASAP, you're already affected by few days of ETH/BTC fluctuations.
> In fact Nicehash is clearly lying to its customers in this sentence:
> ...



See... how is that unnescessary? I get paid in BTC, so BTC price fluctuations directly affect how much money I earn from this. Again, wild example, but 1 BTC is $2734 right now, and if it becomes $10,000... that's important!


----------



## silkstone (Jul 29, 2017)

hat said:


> I may have used the term "mining bitcoin" before, but I didn't use it where you quoted me. I already understand I'm not mining bitcoin, but saying "mining bitcoin" is easier than saying "running a program which automatically mines one of many cryptocurrencies based on profitability at the time, which then pays me in bitcoin". I didn't consider knocking you, I only threw that in in case you were to get offended or something, since I mentioned your postings touching on some of the technical details behind the "financial shit", that being things like money, and risk, things you seem to think most people don't understand because most people don't hold a master's degree in said financial shit. I've admitted many times I don't understand everything about this, including the way the market actually works. Maybe I don't understand the definitions of risk or money you're talking about. What I do understand is this: I saw an opportunity to make money (there's money, that is, in my pocket) by mining bitcoin (okay, not directly mining bitcoin, mining other coins and getting paid in bitcoin). I also understand it's risky, primarily because I spent a good amount of money to get started (there's the risk, this whole thing could grind to a halt and I'll make pennies on the dollar), but also because my earnings can vary wildly based on the state of the market (there's more risk, the volatile nature of the market itself). So... I know what money is, I know what mining is, and I know what the risks are (to me, personally), so I feel I know enough to proceed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Only retroactively. 

If the BTC price shot up to $10,000 or 4x the price, Nice hash would pay you 4x fewer BTC, assuming the price of ETH {or whichever coin} remained constant


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## notb (Jul 29, 2017)

silkstone said:


> As far as I Understand, the conversion from ETH to BTC is instantaneous, in that regard the payment to BTC does not depend on fluctuations.
> 
> However, as there is a minimum BTC withdrawal amount, any BTC to USD conversion would be subject to fluctuations.


Yes, this is exactly what I meant. The BTC inflow is instantaneous, so you're only affected by BTC/USD fluctuations afterwards. Still, you're getting a variable mining efficiency because of the ETH/BTC  conversion.


----------



## hat (Jul 30, 2017)

How does one use those USB risers? It seems that the graphics card would no longer fit where it normally goes, because the riser card would be hitting something (namely another slot)...


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## verycharbroiled (Jul 30, 2017)

hat said:


> How does one use those USB risers? It seems that the graphics card would no longer fit where it normally goes, because the riser card would be hitting something (namely another slot)...



Some people hang the gpu in the air from something, some build frames, some set the gpu on the shelf or something behind the mobo.. basically the gpu can go anywhere within the riser and psu cables reach and they can get decent spacing between the cards.


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## hat (Jul 30, 2017)

Seems tricky to install securely... I may end up getting another mobo when the time comes. AM3 processors, like the Athlon II series, will work in AM3+ boards, correct?


----------



## P4-630 (Jul 30, 2017)

*Cryptocurrency miners are renting Boeing 747s to ship graphics cards*

http://www.pcgamer.com/cryptocurrency-miners-are-renting-boeing-747s-to-ship-graphics-cards/


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## notb (Jul 30, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> *Cryptocurrency miners are renting Boeing 747s to ship graphics cards*
> 
> http://www.pcgamer.com/cryptocurrency-miners-are-renting-boeing-747s-to-ship-graphics-cards/


Now this is a funny story. But I won't laugh. I'll estimate.
They're mining Ethereum in Iceland. If we assume that:
- they ship cards from Hong Kong,
- shipping by air takes 15h,
- the cost of renting a 747-800F is $20k/hour,
- shipping by sea would take 30.6 days
the whole transport will cost $300k and save them 30 days.
That's $10k/day - more or less what 7k 1070s would make at current pricing.

Even assuming that they're shipping all the necessary stuff (not just GPUs), a 747-400F would still handle 500m^3 of graphic cards.
An MSI 1070 Gaming box is ~0.008m^3, which gives us 500*125 = 62500 graphic cards.

This is *easily worth the fuss*, even at current awful mining profitability - leaving huge margin error for the assumptions above.

EDIT: thanks @silkstone.


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## silkstone (Jul 30, 2017)

notb said:


> Now this is a funny story. But I won't laugh. I'll estimate.
> They're mining Ethereum in Iceland. If we assume that:
> - they ship cards from Hong Kong,
> - shipping by air takes 15h,
> ...



$10k per day at 30 days


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## hat (Jul 30, 2017)

Well, my rig burned up again. I'm not sure what happened this time, it didn't look any more damaged than before. All I did was brush the 24 pin male and female ends with a toothbrush and rubbing alcohol like I did before, but this time I tried using a shop vac, primarily on the female connection on the board, to try to suck up and blow out any loose crap that might be in there.

My two +12v leads on the male 24 pin end have looked better. They're burned up a bit and frayed a bit, it looks a little worse now than when it did when I took the picture back on page 47. I'm tempted to cut off the burned/frayed ends and try to pull a little slack, and stick some salvaged connectors from a sacrificial PCI-E connector or 24 pin connector or something on the fresh ends... but I can't say with 100% confidence that repair will be successful. I'd do it in a heartbeat if I had another power supply, which is first on my list of things to get. A nice top tier power supply. Then I can use this one (once it's repaired) in a secondary machine. Until then, I've used MSI Afterburner to set the power target to 80%. I was running 100% before, so this should shave off 60w or so... hopefully that 24 pin won't be so stressed now.


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## infrared (Jul 30, 2017)

Hmmmm, get in touch with the psu mfg and see if they'll send you a new cable. There can't really be much wrong with the pin on the board other than being dirty, but the wire/crimp/connector can be bad. I'm sure if you show them a picture of the burned up 24pin connector they'll sort you out, or at the very least sell you a new one which hopefully would fix the problem. I'm guessing either the connector isn't a tight fit on the pin or the connector isn't crimped onto the wire well enough. Either way it sucks you're having issues :/

I've been mucking around with Nicehash today, my two gtx titans combined (original kepler 6GB cards) are getting £1.58/day (daggerhashimoto @35.2MH/s) and the 1080Ti @ 90% tdp is getting £2.20/day (EquiHash @ 635Sol/s). Neither really makes sense to keep running imo. That's a lot of money in electricity and stress on components.


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## hat (Jul 30, 2017)

Well, the 24 pin cable isn't modular, so... a new cable won't do much. That's why I say I want to cut the ends and try to stick new connectors on.

Yeah, the Kepler cards aren't great at this. My 600 Ti did about 70 cents a day when profitability was good. The 1080Ti might be worth running... it's outperforming both those older Titans by itself, so...

For reference, my 1070s combined are doing 795 Sols/s in Equihash right now. That's with +350 vram and 80% power target.


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## infrared (Jul 30, 2017)

Ah that makes sense, good idea, it's pretty easy to crimp up a new connector  

Thanks for the reference, I might keep the 1080Ti going a bit longer then. It's only using 220W, the titans are using 400W for 72% of the output lol


----------



## hat (Jul 30, 2017)

All of the gods dammit...

My rig abruptly shut down again, and wasn't coming back on. So I took the 24 pin back off and plugged it back in, nothing. I took it back off and brewed up a few ideas, most of which won't work. 

My first thought was to sacrifice the end of a SATA power cable from an old modular power supply. The end that connects to the power supply is the same end on the 24 pin connector. So I cut one of the wires and the connector I was after wouldn't push or pull out, so I just murdered the plastic housing and took it out. These connectors look awfully small. I could possibly uncrimp one with a razor blade or something, but sticking a new wire in and re-crimping it... not sure. This idea is on hold because I'm unsure I could pull it off, and I don't want to risk destroying my halfway working 24 pin and not being able to put it back together.

Then I thought about cutting all the wires off another 24 pin, cutting all the wires on my current one, and just splicing them together, effectively making a new 24 pin connector... but that's a lot of damn spliced wires. And a lot of damn heat shrink tubing I don't have. I could go really ghetto with electrical tape, though. And I don't have a soldering iron, although I don't really think soldering the wires would be absolutely necessary. This seems like it could work, but it somehow seems less than ideal... wouldn't this also increase resistance due to all the spliced wires?

Which brings us to option three: frankenstein machine. Simply use both power supplies at the same time. Jump the existing 24 pin from the Corsair CX600 with a paper clip, and use the 24 pin from the second power supply. That way, the second power supply powers the board, and the CX600 powers everything else. I'm unsure of the potential consequences of running power to components that aren't running, though. The CX600 would have to be on to power the other components before I hit the switch to turn the computer on triggering the second power supply plugged into the board, and thus I assume some power would be being fed to everything else for a short time before the computer is actually running.

Of course, I could save up some money and just buy a proper power supply. But then, since the 24 pin female on the board is somewhat damaged, isn't that high potential for another problem causing high resistance connection? I can't really get in there to clean it up nice... all I can do is brush the connector on the board and hope for the best. I guess I would need a power supply AND board to really be good here... but a nice z68 or z77 board would be a great way to breathe new life into an aging system. I could clock up my CPU and RAM a bit. I've been stuck running 1600MHz RAM at 1333 for ages, because of the H67 chipset I use. Then again, option three frankenstein PC would be a good way to test this. If the 12 lines on the second PSU burn up as well, I know the board can't handle it.

Anyways, currently I'm right back where I started. The rig did boot up again for some reason, but it seems pretty obvious to me that it's hanging on by a thread. That weakened 24 pin connection is really a thorn in my side. I think the best option would be to just get new stuff and retire the PSU and board both as both connectors aren't the greatest, but I've got a way to go before I can afford that. The only way would be to use my mining profits, and I need to take care of other things before I can use mining profits on hardware.


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## notb (Jul 30, 2017)

hat said:


> All of the gods dammit...
> [cut]


Oh man... you've been having these problems for a while now and you're still tinkering and trying workarounds instead of just buying new parts.
Sooner or later this will end in a fireball, so either fix the PC or get a decent home insurance...



> and I need to take care of other things before I can use mining profits on hardware.


Now that's where things become pretty worrying. The idea of some additional cash (e.g. to buy more gear) is fine - even with shrinking profitability - as long as ROI is more or less sensible.
The sentence above looks like you need mining profits to cover taxes, credits or something like that.
No offense, but you have no profits yet. Since you joined during this discussion and bought new GPUs, I understand that your ROI is still far away. And it will become even farther when you start replacing broken gear...


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## infrared (Jul 30, 2017)

@hat You can buy those connectors new online, they cost virtually nothing, just google 24pin atx connector. It'll come with the fresh ends, you can't re-crimp them. You should really do it with proper crimpers to guarantee a good connection. (they're a useful tool to have, make any cable you want up with them!)

edit: Something like this would work nicely, you should be able to do the 3 and 4 pin fan connectors too which is pretty handy.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001GMYU9S/?tag=tec06d-20


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## hat (Jul 30, 2017)

notb said:


> Oh man... you've been having these problems for a while now and you're still tinkering and trying workarounds instead of just buying new parts.
> Sooner or later this will end in a fireball, so either fix the PC or get a decent home insurance...
> 
> 
> ...



You're not wrong. I've mentioned before that financial struggle is nothing new to me... but lost time running the rig is lost money, and I don't have money to fix things properly, hence workarouds



infrared said:


> @hat You can buy those connectors new online, they cost virtually nothing, just google 24pin atx connector. It'll come with the fresh ends, you can't re-crimp them. You should really do it with proper crimpers to guarantee a good connection. (they're a useful tool to have, make any cable you want up with them!)



Hm but I would still have to remove the wires from my existing 24 pin connector and re-crimp those two ends from the +12v leads right? I could potentially take off the female connector from the board and put a new one on, if I had a soldering iron, but that's a project for another day.


----------



## infrared (Jul 30, 2017)

Nope, slightly different approach. I'm guessing only a short bit of wire up to the connector is melted? cut it just above there (actually do it one at a time to keep track) so each end is fresh wire. You strip the wire and put it straight in the new fresh metal fitting, crimp it and click it into the plug. If you take your time getting this right you'd end up with a factory quality job, the cable would just be 1-2" shorter.

Here's a useful video, it's using automotive connectors but it's the identical process


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## hat (Jul 30, 2017)

Well, there's no way I can un-crimp the connector and re-crimp it. Which leads me to option 1a:

Get two wires out of one of those modular connectors. Leave the crimped end alone, but cut the wire. Cut the burned up +12v leads from my PSU's 24 pin connector. Splice those two wires. Fresh connectors... spliced wire. Spliced wire has got to be better than burned up wire w/ shitty connector huh?


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## infrared (Jul 30, 2017)

Ah, so you're trying to hack it with a salvaged connector from the other one.. Okay yeah I guess that'd work, and would get you up and running again quickly. It's a bit 'animal-ish' though lol.
I was suggesting you could get a brand new connector to replace what's on there with. To be fair its a big job, you'd  splicing would be faster.

There might be better options that come up for you, faster postage maybe..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shakmods-24...242803&hash=item27e1bc6929:g:45kAAOxyP4dTegKg

edit:

I may have read your post wrong, i see what you're saying now I think. Extend the (now shortented) wire.. Yep that should work. It's a lot less work that what I actually meant of cutting and re-crimping the whole lot. 

time for bed lol. Peace!


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## Norton (Jul 30, 2017)

infrared said:


> Ah, so you're trying to hack it with a salvaged connector from the other one.. Okay yeah I guess that'd work, and would get you up and running again quickly. It's a bit 'animal-ish' though lol.
> I was suggesting you could get a brand new connector to replace what's on there with.
> 
> There might be better options that come up for you, faster postage maybe..
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shakmods-24...242803&hash=item27e1bc6929:g:45kAAOxyP4dTegKg


You can get a kit here for a few $$$:
http://www.performance-pcs.com/mole...-main-power-male-connector-housing-white.html
http://www.performance-pcs.com/phobya-atx-vga-power-connector-pin-male-20-pcs.html
http://www.performance-pcs.com/minifit-pins-male-silver-4-pack.html


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## hat (Jul 30, 2017)

That looks good, if I had the proper crimping tool. Maybe someday... for now, animal-ish hack and splice is the order of the day. That looks like a really valuable resource, though.


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## infrared (Jul 31, 2017)

Hope you're back up and running soon mate


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## FordGT90Concept (Jul 31, 2017)

ETH has come and gone:
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/ethereum/





Only people with access to cheap hardware and electricity can turn a profit on it now.

$20 billion worth of hardware, electricity, and cash pumped into Ethereum.  So wasteful.


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## hat (Jul 31, 2017)

Who knows, maybe it'll come back...


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jul 31, 2017)

Not likely.  Only reason why BTC surged is because other cryptocurrencies use it as a medium to exchange to legal tender (e.g. USD).  BTC is like the USD of cryptocurrencies; it's not likely to be replaced.


----------



## hat (Jul 31, 2017)

Well, the PSU repair job is done. Spliced the wires. I had a little trouble getting the ends to stay in place in the 24 pin... could be because it's a little burned up though. Anyway it's all together again and at least I'm not running burned up wires anymore...

Someone mentioned the CX600 uses thinner wires than better units, I think they were right. The 24 pin wires felt slightly thinner than the wires I cannibalized from that SATA power connector from an old modular power supply. Anyway it's all back together, hopefully it doesn't burn up again. I'm running power target at 80% now, I left it at 100% before, so that shaves off 60w.

@FordGT90Concept Then what caused ETH to surge, and what's stopping it from happening again?


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jul 31, 2017)

Lots of things happened for Ethereum in a short time frame:
https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@cryptoenthusiast/why-is-ethereum-surging

Fell because of impending Bitcoin split and fears of large players (other cryptocurrency startups) dumping their Ethereum while the price is high.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/16/eth...amid-worries-about-rival-bitcoins-future.html

Bull markets are often followed by bear markets.  Cryptocurrencies are no exception:
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/18/ethereum-digital-coin-market-time-bomb.html

TL;DR: Feeding frenzy until all the fish got full and left.


Eh, just do the math for yourself.  If you're spending more to mine Ethereum than you're getting back, quit unless you can afford to lose all that you invested.


----------



## Rehmanpa (Jul 31, 2017)

Ethereum went back up today quite a bit just saying I don't think it's done yet


----------



## Divide Overflow (Jul 31, 2017)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Eh, just do the math for yourself.  If you're spending more to mine Ethereum than you're getting back, quit unless you can afford to lose all that you invested.


With the change to higher summer rates for electricity in my area, I'll be stopping after my next payout and go in to monitoring mode.  Things could get interesting with the BTC - BCC fork.  We'll see.  Fortunately I've been using equipment on hand, so I'm not trying to chase any ROI ever slipping out of reach.


----------



## silkstone (Jul 31, 2017)

hat said:


> Well, the PSU repair job is done. Spliced the wires. I had a little trouble getting the ends to stay in place in the 24 pin... could be because it's a little burned up though. Anyway it's all together again and at least I'm not running burned up wires anymore...
> 
> Someone mentioned the CX600 uses thinner wires than better units, I think they were right. The 24 pin wires felt slightly thinner than the wires I cannibalized from that SATA power connector from an old modular power supply. Anyway it's all back together, hopefully it doesn't burn up again. I'm running power target at 80% now, I left it at 100% before, so that shaves off 60w.
> 
> @FordGT90Concept Then what caused ETH to surge, and what's stopping it from happening again?



Did you at least do a linesman's splice to keep it all neat and keep resistance down?


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 31, 2017)

notb said:


> Your comment is very ancient.



No, it's pretty accurate and I'm pretty sure I just posted it yesterday, hence not ancient.   Your certainty still strikes me as foolish.  Calling it a sure thing is silly.  Saying you believe something to be likely is another thing entirely.

Mind you, I have no assets in crypto at all right now, so maybe I can look at the picture a little more impartially.


----------



## hat (Jul 31, 2017)

silkstone said:


> Did you at least do a linesman's splice to keep it all neat and keep resistance down?


No I just twisted them together. It's neat as it gets without heatshrink tubing (electrical tape). It's been working with no signs of trouble so far...


----------



## Nordic (Jul 31, 2017)

> I'm not trying to chase any ROI ever slipping out of reach.


I mined bitcoin, lightcoin, and some others awhile back. I stopped when I mined enough to pay for my brand new 970 shortly after they came out. I got tired of chasing that ROI. I also missed this recent boom because I haven't been paying attention anymore. I can't decide if this is a net loss or a net gain.


----------



## notb (Jul 31, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> No, it's pretty accurate and I'm pretty sure I just posted it yesterday, hence not ancient.   Your certainty still strikes me as foolish.  Calling it a sure thing is silly.  Saying you believe something to be likely is another thing entirely.


It's not a certainty. It's an expectation.
However, it's not a statistical estimation (i.e. based on analyzing some observations). It's based on an assumption that cryptocurrencies are fundamentally dependent on each other. And we must assume that they are dependent, if we want to think that their value has any fundamental meaning...

You call this "foolish" while it's the exact opposite. The ability to anticipate things based on one's knowledge is exactly what we call "intelligence".



> Mind you, I have no assets in crypto at all right now, so maybe I can look at the picture a little more impartially.


I don't have any crypto as well and I don't really understand how this is relevant here.
It wouln't be good if my opinion, as a trader, was affected by owning a commodity. This is the way money is lost, not made. :-D



hat said:


> No I just twisted them together. It's neat as it gets without heatshrink tubing (electrical tape). It's been working with no signs of trouble so far...


Essentially, linesman's splice is also a way to twist cables together. But it's the good way.


----------



## dorsetknob (Jul 31, 2017)

What might be worth considering 
*hat*
is an ATX motherboard power extender 24 to 24 pin
You could chop and Splice   and you end up with a slightly longer ATX power connector




Ghetto yes but needs must when wallet is empty


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 1, 2017)

notb said:


> It's not a certainty. It's an expectation.
> However, it's not a statistical estimation (i.e. based on analyzing some observations). It's based on an assumption that cryptocurrencies are fundamentally dependent on each other. And we must assume that they are dependent, if we want to think that their value has any fundamental meaning...



Ah.  I misunderstood something then, apologies.



> You call this "foolish" while it's the exact opposite. The ability to anticipate things based on one's knowledge is exactly what we call "intelligence".



No, I don't call that foolish.  I just misunderstood something somewhere down the line.


----------



## hat (Aug 1, 2017)

dorsetknob said:


> What might be worth considering
> *hat*
> is an ATX motherboard power extender 24 to 24 pin
> You could chop and Splice   and you end up with a slightly longer ATX power connector
> ...


Hm... I don't feel like splicing all that lol...

If I repair it beyond what I already did, I'll crimp new ends on a new connector from the place Norton mentioned probably.


----------



## notb (Aug 1, 2017)

There was a jump in ETH difficulty overnight - by around +10% - and a similar increase of price.
Does anyone know what happened?


----------



## silkstone (Aug 1, 2017)

notb said:


> There was a jump in ETH difficulty overnight - by around +10% - and a similar increase of price.
> Does anyone know what happened?



Possibly due to the network changing from PoW to PoS


----------



## dorsetknob (Aug 1, 2017)

*Go fork yourself: Bitcoin has split in two – and yes, it's all forked up*
*Bitcoin Cash is the New Coke of cryptocurrency*
By Thomas Claburn in San Francisco 1 Aug 2017 at 19:06






Bitcoin split into two separate currencies on Tuesday because part of the Bitcoin community isn't happy with recent and planned changes to the code that controls the cryptocurrency.

Bitcoin.org last month warned of a potential split if consensus couldn't be reached on efforts to help Bitcoin scale better.

Part of the effort, known as Bitcoin Improvement Proposal 91 (BIP91), was accepted last month, and a split was averted.

But making the Bitcoin network faster and more efficient involves multiple proposals. The current source of friction, SegWit2x, has driven a wedge into the Bitcoin community.
Now in addition to classic Bitcoin (BTC), there's Bitcoin Cash (BCC or BCH), and those holding previously mined BTC can obtain an equal number of BCH in a process similar to a stock split, at least at some Bitcoin exchanges.

Support for Bitcoin Cash has come largely from digital miners in China, such as ViaBTC.

The exchange rate for each digital currency, however, is not the same. BTC is presently trading at around $2,750 on the CoinDesk Bitcoin Price Index. BCC/BCH is valued at about $244, according to coinmarketcap.com.

Bitcoin Cash isn't yet actually available, but should be once block 478559 gets mined. Its future, however, remains uncertain.

So far, exchanges Bitfinex and Kraken have said they will accept Bitcoin Cash. Others, including Coinbase, Bitstamp, and BitMEX, are not currently supporting the variant currency. London-based exchange Crypto Facilities has posted a chart indicating the dispositions of various other exchanges.


----------



## fullinfusion (Aug 1, 2017)

hat said:


> Hm... I don't feel like splicing all that lol...
> 
> If I repair it beyond what I already did, I'll crimp new ends on a new connector from the place Norton mentioned probably.


IMHO Your still going to have an issue hat. The 24 pin is fukd, the boards socket is fukd and that's the reality of it. I know money is tight I get it, but the damage done to the cable isn't the only problem. The plug melted, it got hot and arked for sure leaving a light film of oxidation on the pins. If you really want to stop pissn around and get running I'd personally get a soldering iron, a solder pump and remove that boards socket all together. Cut the end off the 24 pin cable, strip a bit of insulation off and tint the wires with solder and stickem through the the holes and solder that bitch up..it won't look pretty but it'll work. 

That's my 2 cents added and if I were in that boat I'd do it.. 

Ps that heat causes oxidation and without a proper solvent to actually clean the pins it's a no win situation.


----------



## hat (Aug 2, 2017)

Yeesh, that seems really extreme. If anything I'd make a new 24 pin with stuff from the links Norton posted... repairing the board is another matter. Possible to repair it I suppose but I wouldn't want to do that unless I had another board.

Not sure what the impact of Bitcoin Cash is yet. Nothing really seems to have changed.


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 2, 2017)

hat said:


> Not sure what the impact of Bitcoin Cash is yet. Nothing really seems to have changed.



Pretty much what I anticipate.  Some exchanged may issue BCC is about all that will really change, but it will devalue like hell as people exchange it to BTC making it irrelevant.


----------



## hat (Aug 2, 2017)

That was my thought... just another cryptocurrency. BTC is still king.


----------



## dorsetknob (Aug 2, 2017)

A new version of Bitcoin has been mined for the first time in the crypto-currency's history.
Bitcoin Cash is the result of months of debate and development over how the currency would continue to evolve.
Fears of large swings in the value of Bitcoin have so far not been realised - but some exchanges are still adapting to the new currency.
One expert said the process had gone smoothly so far and pointed out that trade in Bitcoin Cash seemed "robust".
Bitcoin Cash was developed as a measure to increase the capacity of Bitcoin's underlying technology, the blockchain - a digital ledger that records every single transaction.
*Bigger blocks*
Because the old blockchain could only have one megabyte (MB) of data added to it every 10 minutes, transactions have come to be processed at slower rates.
Bitcoin Cash blocks can be as large as 8MB, which its proponents hope will help to solve this problem.

Yesterday, Bitcoin Cash was officially born when block number 478559 - at just under 2MB in size - was mined.
No major issues have so far been detected following the split although a few exchanges and wallets have had minor technical issues with supporting Bitcoin Cash initially, said Dr Garrick Hileman, research fellow at the Cambridge Centre for Alternative Finance.
"A market seems to be emerging for Bitcoin Cash that looks to be relatively robust," he told the BBC.
The fresh-faced crypto-currency was trading comfortably above $400 (£300) about 12 hours after it was created.
Bitcoin itself saw a modest fall in price on Tuesday, but was still above $2,700 (£2,000) at 10:00 BST on Wednesday.
Thanks to its larger block size, Bitcoin Cash requires more computer storage space from parties wishing to take part in the process of mining.
Mining involves computers being tasked with solving difficult mathematical problems in order to authorise transactions on the blockchain.
Miners receive new bitcoins as a reward for this work - making it lucrative - and it has also been something open to individuals in the past, because the cost of small scale mining equipment has been relatively low.
That could change thanks to Bitcoin Cash.
"Bigger players with access to server farms and big budgets will have no problem running bigger nodes, but smaller operators could be squeezed out," said Dr Hileman.
"Will companies dominate Bitcoin Cash more than Bitcoin? We're going to see this in the flesh now, how this will play out."
*Pure speculation?*
And there are other issues to ponder - not least the decision by one of the biggest crypto-currency exchanges, Coinbase, not to support Bitcoin Cash.
"Seriously look at Bitcoin Cash going up. If you kept your [Bitcoin] at @coinbase and are not getting any you must be pretty fed up right now," tweeted one trader who watched the split unfold.
The split might also make it harder to establish Bitcoin or Bitcoin Cash as currencies useful for commerce, suggested Vili Lehdonvirta at the Oxford Internet Institute.
This is because a greater number of currencies each with a smaller number of users are less likely to be accepted in lots of different places, he explained.
But Bitcoin traders may simply be interested in speculation - buying and selling coins in the hope they rise in value.
"In which case actual usefulness doesn't matter," he said.
from BBC News


----------



## hat (Aug 4, 2017)

Meh, it looks like my Nicehash mining operation is still going normally so... I'm good. Now I only hope the market improves and the other coins go up in price again so I can make more than I am now.


----------



## moproblems99 (Aug 6, 2017)

I finally got my miner running...phew!  Quick question, my 1060s are only running about $1.20 a day right now on Equihash.  I am curious what everyone else is getting at the moment and if that is normal.  I thought that NiceHash mined what was most profitable but this thread has become so large I have lost track of all the good info in it.  Thanks!


----------



## 111frodon (Aug 6, 2017)

My 7970 mining at 286 sols is producing 1,35$ a day, to give you a rough idea. That's without removing energy cost.


----------



## cdawall (Aug 6, 2017)

moproblems99 said:


> I finally got my miner running...phew!  Quick question, my 1060s are only running about $1.20 a day right now on Equihash.  I am curious what everyone else is getting at the moment and if that is normal.  I thought that NiceHash mined what was most profitable but this thread has become so large I have lost track of all the good info in it.  Thanks!



This is 6 of them. They are mining ethereum through nicehash though.


----------



## moproblems99 (Aug 6, 2017)

Ok, so it looks like it is right on track then...thanks for the replies guys!

EDIT: Do you manually have yours set for ethereum?



cdawall said:


> This is 6 of them. They are mining ethereum through nicehash though.


----------



## cdawall (Aug 6, 2017)

Mine are set for ethereum or z cash it'll flip between those


----------



## moproblems99 (Aug 6, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Mine are set for ethereum or z cash it'll flip between those



Figured, thanks.


----------



## hat (Aug 6, 2017)

You can select which algorithms you want to run in nicehash by checking the checkboxes. Nicehash checks the profitability of the selected algorithms every so often and automatically selects the best one.


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 6, 2017)

dorsetknob said:


> A new version of Bitcoin has been mined for the first time in the crypto-currency's history.
> Bitcoin Cash is the result of months of debate and development over how the currency would continue to evolve.
> Fears of large swings in the value of Bitcoin have so far not been realised - but some exchanges are still adapting to the new currency.
> One expert said the process had gone smoothly so far and pointed out that trade in Bitcoin Cash seemed "robust".
> ...



A few days later and bitcoin cash appears to be dying while BTC is rallying.


----------



## notb (Aug 6, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> A few days later and bitcoin cash appears to be dying while BTC is rallying.


It seems the initial sale (of the BCH people received) is over and both matker cap and price stabilized (at ~$210 and 3.5 bln USD).
Based on market cap it's the 4th largest crypto at the moment. Based on 24h volume: 6th.
These figures are 10 and 5 times larger than those of the - quite popular - Zcash.

You call this dying? ;-) Give BCH another month - we'll see what's what.


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 6, 2017)

notb said:


> It seems the initial sale (of the BCH people received) is over and both matker cap and price stabilized (at ~$210 and 3.5 bln USD).
> Based on market cap it's the 4th largest crypto at the moment. Based on 24h volume: 6th.
> These figures are 10 and 5 times larger than those of the - quite popular - Zcash.
> 
> You call this dying? ;-) Give BCH another month - we'll see what's what.



It's lost half it's market value in the month of it's IPO.  If this was a stock, it would be called "dismal performance" if not "dying."

I'm confident it will die (and by die, I mean go down to less than 1% of it's initial value, I doubt it will ever vanish), though again, having no investment it will be interesting to watch.  I think the remaining value is probably just holdouts who haven't cashed out yet, or realized they even can do so.

My reasons are basically it lacks a distinguishing quality.  Anything without a distinguishing quality in crypto is dead on arrival (it's larger block size is due to be added to bitcoin in due time, making it a moot point).


----------



## notb (Aug 6, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> It's lost half it's market value in the month of it's IPO.  If this was a stock, it would be called "dismal performance" if not "dying."


This is a very simple effect, actually.
The initial price was nowhere near the fair value. Why? Because people got BCH for free - they didn't have to pay for it.
It needed a few days to stabilize. It did. Now it needs a few weeks to get actual traction.

We would see exactly the same behaviour of a stock, if it was given to people for free at IPO. And it does happen from time to time.
Few years ago a large state-owned mining company went public in Poland. Just 15% (compared to BCH's 100%) of shares were distributed among employees - partly for free (if they worked for 10+ years) and partly for a low price of around $18 per share. The IPO price was ~$50, but it dropped by almost 30% as soon as employees could sell their shares.


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 6, 2017)

notb said:


> This is a very simple effect, actually.
> The initial price was nowhere near the fair value. Why? Because people got BCH for free - they didn't have to pay for it.
> It needed a few days to stabilize. It did. Now it needs a few weeks to get actual traction.
> 
> ...



Fair point.  I still don't see a future for it honestly, but who knows?  It's crypto.


----------



## hat (Aug 6, 2017)

Makes me wonder about the true motivation behind creating Bitcoin Cash. What was wrong with BTC? Did somebody just want to manipulate the market on a large scale to make a quick buck?


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 6, 2017)

hat said:


> Makes me wonder about the true motivation behind creating Bitcoin Cash. What was wrong with BTC? Did somebody just want to manipulate the market on a large scale to make a quick buck?


Meh, people were supposedly upset with some technical design decisions in bitcoin being delayed and implemented them immediately instead.  As for true motivations, your guess is as good as mine.


----------



## yotano211 (Aug 6, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Meh, people were supposedly upset with some technical design decisions in bitcoin being delayed and implemented them immediately instead.  As for true motivations, your guess is as good as mine.


Does it have to be mined with ASIC also or gpu's?


----------



## verycharbroiled (Aug 6, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Does it have to be mined with ASIC also or gpu's?


ASIC


----------



## notb (Aug 6, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Does it have to be mined with ASIC also or gpu's?


It's been forked from Bitcoin, so it has the same algorithm (SHA-256) and the same limit of 21 mln coins. Only some parameters are different.


----------



## yotano211 (Aug 6, 2017)

cool thanks


verycharbroiled said:


> ASIC





notb said:


> It's been forked from Bitcoin, so it has the same algorithm (SHA-256) and the same limit of 21 mln coins. Only some parameters are different.



cool thanks


----------



## aGeoM (Aug 7, 2017)

Hi all

Don't know if you already know about this , it worked for me improving my hash rates about 3MHs.


----------



## cdawall (Aug 7, 2017)

aGeoM said:


> Hi all
> 
> Don't know if you already know about this , it worked for me improving my hash rates about 3MHs.



I have a 480 heading back from rma will give it a shot


----------



## hat (Aug 7, 2017)

Are there any tweaks for nvidia cards? Best driver to use?


----------



## aGeoM (Aug 7, 2017)

hat said:


> Are there any tweaks for nvidia cards? Best driver to use?



This AMD drivers are to fix Ethash DAG epoch issue, witch I believe does not affect Nvidia cards.


----------



## verycharbroiled (Aug 7, 2017)

aGeoM said:


> Hi all
> 
> Don't know if you already know about this , it worked for me improving my hash rates about 3MHs.



havent tried it yet as it is not official.. when i can get it from the official amd site ill try it.

i have two bios modded 470s and run 16.11 drivers, i would have to run the pixel patcher to have those run on 17.x drivers. so i will wait a bit.


----------



## aGeoM (Aug 7, 2017)

All my system is a BETA stage, Beta Crosshair VI BIOS (1501), Beta MS WIN10 OS (1703-16251), BETA AMD drivers, Modded sound drivers (Test Mode) no problem with it.
RX580 have custom bios and RX560 not (both are cross flashed from RX480 and RX460) so there is no need for patcher, but... I'm using it because I have OCed my LED TV/Monitor to have Freesync and 75Hz support (CRU 1.3).

My thinking is simple if something improve what I already have (hasrates, cpu/gpu performance, new functionality, ...) then I just use it.

But that it is me...

Edit:


----------



## cdawall (Aug 7, 2017)

aGeoM said:


> All my system is a BETA stage, Beta Crosshair VI BIOS (1501), Beta MS WIN10 OS (1703-16251), BETA AMD drivers, Modded sound drivers (Test Mode) no problem with it.
> RX580 have custom bios and RX560 not (both are cross flashed from RX480 and RX460) so there is no need for patcher, but... I'm using it because I have OCed my LED TV/Monitor to have Freesync and 75Hz support (CRU 1.3).
> 
> My thinking is simple if something improve what I already have (hasrates, cpu/gpu performance, new functionality, ...) then I just use it.
> ...



Is that 30/13 mh/s for those cards?


----------



## aGeoM (Aug 8, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Is that 30/13 mh/s for those cards?



Is more like 12.2/31.3 Mh/s. RX560 stock BIOS @1326/2000, 1.100V; RX580 @1250/2200, 1.100V. Ambient Temp 33ºC ATM (1:15AM)


----------



## cdawall (Aug 8, 2017)

What BIOS on the 580? Those are decent numbers out of it.


----------



## aGeoM (Aug 8, 2017)

It's based on MSI Gaming+ BIOSa  with a mix of Gigabyte / XFX and ASUS (Tables) plus UberMix Timings.

Considering that this numbers are achieved with GPU Throttling yes, they are, but normal GPU temps (less than 80ºC) are about 32/33 Mh/s.


----------



## Sasqui (Aug 8, 2017)

These guys are likening the bubble to the "Great Tulip Mania in Holland", in the 1600's

http://realmoney.thestreet.com/arti...ia-setting-greatest-financial-crash-400-years



> *Bitcoin Mania Setting Up for Greatest Financial Crash in 400 Years*





> Reviewing that update of the great flameout of bitcoin, the DSE identified that spike into the upper $2,000s as the likely last gasps of wave 3. The second chart in that forecast zooms in on the first one, and details how a then-hallucinated decline should next hold the $1,750 +/- $150 zone, prior to the final rise into "perhaps the mid-to high $3,000s." Please take the time to read that forecast to alleviate any doubt that the DSE's forecasting engine is just ahead of this uber-emotional market.



Who really knows?  They did pretty much nail a forecast of the "second wave":

http://realmoney.thestreet.com/articles/05/30/2017/spit-bit-bitcoin-reaches-dangerous-manic-stage


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 8, 2017)

Sasqui said:


> These guys are likening the bubble to the "Great Tulip Mania in Holland", in the 1600's
> 
> http://realmoney.thestreet.com/arti...ia-setting-greatest-financial-crash-400-years
> 
> ...



The primary difference is I don't think tulips ever had a snowballs chance in hell of supplanting existing world currency and financial systems.  Bitcoin does.


----------



## Sasqui (Aug 8, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> I don't think tulips ever had a snowballs chance in hell of supplanting existing world currency and financial systems



Ah, they sure thought so at the time. tulips were better than money itself.

Try dropping a frog into a boiling pot of water, it'll try to jump out.  Put a frog in a cool pot of water and bring it to a boil, it'll stay there till it dies ... or so I've been told, I'd never do that to a frog


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 8, 2017)

Sasqui said:


> Ah, they sure thought so at the time. tulips were better than money itself.
> 
> Try dropping a frog into a boiling pot of water, it'll try to jump out.  Put a frog in a cool pot of water and bring it to a boil, it'll stay there till it dies ... or so I've been told, I'd never do that to a frog



Good thing I'm neither invested in crypto nor boiling water.


----------



## dorsetknob (Aug 9, 2017)

need i say more   open your wallet here
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/pc-c...il&utm_term=0_c199b69777-5431a252c5-212371209


----------



## hat (Aug 9, 2017)

If you see some stuff saying rejected on the nicehash stats page, does that mean your card is unstable?


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 9, 2017)

hat said:


> If you see some stuff saying rejected on the nicehash stats page, does that mean your card is unstable?



Some rejects are normal, if you have a high percentage it can indicate instability.

Back in my day, above around 3% rejects was considered abnormal.


----------



## 111frodon (Aug 9, 2017)

hat said:


> If you see some stuff saying rejected on the nicehash stats page, does that mean your card is unstable?



I have around 1% rejected on all my cards, mining zcash or ethereum. Seems normal as R-T-B said.

A general question: does anyone here use a westmere xeon (a 4,0 ghz X5650 to be exact) to mine using nicehash? When i mine CryptoNight, the miner never load more than 42-43% of the CPU, netting me around 220 H/s. Does anyone know how to use all 12 threads my cpu can provide?


----------



## hat (Aug 9, 2017)

In an older version of nicehash, you could go to the mining devices tab or whatever and under CPU, select CryptoNight and on the right there would be a "LessThreads" setting that would affect that. In your case, if the value was set to 6, it would only use half your CPU. The setting of 6 subtracts 6 threads from your total of 12. In the latest version these options are no longer available and you have to manually edit the .json config files...


----------



## 111frodon (Aug 9, 2017)

hat said:


> In an older version of nicehash, you could go to the mining devices tab or whatever and under CPU, select CryptoNight and on the right there would be a "LessThreads" setting that would affect that. In your case, if the value was set to 6, it would only use half your CPU. The setting of 6 subtracts 6 threads from your total of 12. In the latest version these options are no longer available and you have to manually edit the .json config files...


 
I'll look into it when i come home later...


----------



## r9 (Aug 9, 2017)

High memory overclock equals memory corruption equals rejects.


----------



## Rehmanpa (Aug 9, 2017)

So I started mining ethereum back in June, and I'm just curious what all your guys' hashrate are for it? I have 4 r9 290s and a 290x and I'm currently getting about 143mh/s. Wondering if I should be trying to expand my setup? I can get an t9 290 on Craigslist for 125 USD, and I was thinking about trying to do that, or if I should try and sell my miner while ethereum is going back up in price?


----------



## cdawall (Aug 10, 2017)

Rehmanpa said:


> So I started mining ethereum back in June, and I'm just curious what all your guys' hashrate are for it? I have 4 r9 290s and a 290x and I'm currently getting about 143mh/s. Wondering if I should be trying to expand my setup? I can get an t9 290 on Craigslist for 125 USD, and I was thinking about trying to do that, or if I should try and sell my miner while ethereum is going back up in price?



7x1060's dual mine 22mh/s ethereum/220mh/s lbry each

4x1070 dual mine 29mh/s and I forget what they get in lbry each


----------



## Rehmanpa (Aug 10, 2017)

cdawall said:


> 7x1060's dual mine 22mh/s ethereum/220mh/s lbry each
> 
> 4x1070 dual mine 29mh/s and I forget what they get in lbry each


What's lbry? I use claymore and it only mines ethereum


----------



## cdawall (Aug 10, 2017)

Rehmanpa said:


> What's lbry? I use claymore and it only mines ethereum



Claymore mines more than just ethereum lol


----------



## 111frodon (Aug 10, 2017)

hat said:


> In an older version of nicehash, you could go to the mining devices tab or whatever and under CPU, select CryptoNight and on the right there would be a "LessThreads" setting that would affect that. In your case, if the value was set to 6, it would only use half your CPU. The setting of 6 subtracts 6 threads from your total of 12. In the latest version these options are no longer available and you have to manually edit the .json config files...



Seems like the option is still there just well hidden.

HUGE thanks to you, found the "less thread" settings and yes i was running 5 threads instead of 12! When set to 0 the cpu load goes to 100%.


----------



## Rehmanpa (Aug 10, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Claymore mines more than just ethereum lol


How do I get it to? Mine says on startup ethereum only.

Also is cpu mining currencies worth doing these days?


----------



## 111frodon (Aug 10, 2017)

Rehmanpa said:


> How do I get it to? Mine says on startup ethereum only.
> 
> Also is cpu mining currencies worth doing these days?



There's not a whole lot of cash to mine, but i make around twice what it consumes. I would not recommend buying gear just to mine cryptonight, but hey i had the 6c/12t cpu before i started to mine (was my main rig) so why not?

For dual-mining be sure to Check all boxes when you bench your hardware the first time. Takes more time, but since i did it nicehash never mined ethereum alone, always dagger/decred for a little more profit.


----------



## hat (Aug 10, 2017)

Yeah... even overclocked AMD Ryzen 8 cores only make like a dollar per day.


----------



## yotano211 (Aug 10, 2017)

cdawall said:


> 7x1060's dual mine 22mh/s ethereum/220mh/s lbry each
> 
> 4x1070 dual mine 29mh/s and I forget what they get in lbry each


the 1060s will do 22mh/s but with a heavy memory overclock, i wouldnt do more than 400mhz overclock on the memory. I overclocked by 1060s in the beginning to 600mhz and the memory are slowly degrading. Now they are to the point of being RMA'ed. I just lost 6 1060s from 2 mining rigs, those 6 are only stable at stock speeds.


----------



## cdawall (Aug 10, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> the 1060s will do 22mh/s but with a heavy memory overclock, i wouldnt do more than 400mhz overclock on the memory. I overclocked by 1060s in the beginning to 600mhz and the memory are slowly degrading. Now they are to the point of being RMA'ed. I just lost 6 1060s from 2 mining rigs, those 6 are only stable at stock speeds.



How curious our 1060's are about the same age correct? mine are still holding +750 memory


----------



## yotano211 (Aug 10, 2017)

cdawall said:


> How curious our 1060's are about the same age correct? mine are still holding +750 memory


Good lord!! 750mhz, I do have to say that all of the 1060s that had the memory degraded are all of the same brand ones. They are the ones that I got from Amazon, the ones that I bought from Micocenter, Zotac 1060 3gb have their clocks speeds to 550mhz have not failed. But now every 1060 that I have, I dont overclock more than 300mhz or so. I rather have them do 20mh/s than nothing at all.


----------



## cdawall (Aug 10, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Good lord!! 750mhz, I do have to say that all of the 1060s that had the memory degraded are all of the same brand ones. They are the ones that I got from Amazon, the ones that I bought from Micocenter, Zotac 1060 3gb have their clocks speeds to 550mhz have not failed. But now every 1060 that I have, I dont overclock more than 300mhz or so. I rather have them do 20mh/s than nothing at all.



Mine are 6 zotac 3gb and one zotac 6gb all at the same 70% top +65mhz core and +750 memory. They havent dropped below 22mh/s ever. Even dual mining they hold 22


----------



## yotano211 (Aug 10, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Mine are 6 zotac 3gb and one zotac 6gb all at the same 70% top +65mhz core and +750 memory. They havent dropped below 22mh/s ever. Even dual mining they hold 22


I guess these zotac are better than most. I'll clock them higher once I bring them back from California.


----------



## hat (Aug 10, 2017)

Strange how overclocking is killing the vram... That shouldn't be happening even if they were unstable. Maybe raising the clocks is causing them to draw more power and generate more heat causing them to break down. Maybe cdawall had better cooling on his than on yours. Then again shit does wear down and not even a well cooled CPU will hold max clocks forever.


----------



## yotano211 (Aug 10, 2017)

hat said:


> Strange how overclocking is killing the vram... That shouldn't be happening even if they were unstable. Maybe raising the clocks is causing them to draw more power and generate more heat causing them to break down. Maybe cdawall had better cooling on his than on yours. Then again shit does wear down and not even a well cooled CPU will hold max clocks forever.


I mine etheruem that uses the memory much more than the core.


----------



## Rehmanpa (Aug 10, 2017)

I posted this in a separate thread to try and get some more responses, but do any of you know how to solve dual power supply issues with ethereum mining? Here's the link to my thread on TPU about it:
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/power-supply-randomly-stops-outputting-power.236002/


----------



## yotano211 (Aug 10, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Mine are 6 zotac 3gb and one zotac 6gb all at the same 70% top +65mhz core and +750 memory. They havent dropped below 22mh/s ever. Even dual mining they hold 22


Take a look at this beauty

https://videocardz.com/newz/biostar-teasing-motherboard-with-104-usb-risers-support-for-mining


----------



## notb (Aug 10, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Take a look at this beauty
> 
> https://videocardz.com/newz/biostar-teasing-motherboard-with-104-usb-risers-support-for-mining


Very poor diversification.
I can totally understand the need to connect 10 or 20 cards to a single motherboard (less power draw), but ~100?

That said, the multi-USB risers seem very interesting if you could use them with an Atom embedded system (usually single PCIe). It'll use under 10W (mobo+RAM+CPU+storage) - way less than a frugal LGA1151 build.


----------



## yotano211 (Aug 10, 2017)

If you look up that much to a single motherboard you can cut down on expenses by at least 10% and power draw. Shot, why not 100.


----------



## notb (Aug 10, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> If you look up that much to a single motherboard you can cut down on expenses by at least 10% and power draw. Shot, why not 100.


I've just said why not: diversity.

Because when this PC crashes, you're losing more.
For a PC using 100x 1060, you're losing 6 USD/h.
But it's even worse if we consider possible damage (e.g. power surge).


----------



## cdawall (Aug 10, 2017)

Rehmanpa said:


> I posted this in a separate thread to try and get some more responses, but do any of you know how to solve dual power supply issues with ethereum mining? Here's the link to my thread on TPU about it:
> https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/power-supply-randomly-stops-outputting-power.236002/



I just have one of those shorting plugs for the rig I run with two psus no issues running that way.



yotano211 said:


> Take a look at this beauty
> 
> https://videocardz.com/newz/biostar-teasing-motherboard-with-104-usb-risers-support-for-mining



I have always wondered why they even use risere why not just have the adapter built into the board?


----------



## verycharbroiled (Aug 10, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I have always wondered why they even use risere why not just have the adapter built into the board?



ease and speed to manufacture? seems like a lot of support electronics to cram on a mobo, plus the need to vet the operation of all that add on electronics on the mobo.

also easier to fix any problems on add in boards later down the road (just make a new board revision) than to scrap a whole line of mobos and tool up for the revision mobo.


----------



## cdawall (Aug 10, 2017)

verycharbroiled said:


> ease and speed to manufacture? seems like a lot of support electronics to cram on a mobo, plus the need to vet the operation of all that add on electronics on the mobo.
> 
> also easier to fix any problems on add in boards later down the road (just make a new board revision) than to scrap a whole line of mobos and tool up for the revision mobo.



We are 3 generations of intel into this... There is no logic in the usb riser. It would just be a pin out.


----------



## verycharbroiled (Aug 10, 2017)

cdawall said:


> We are 3 generations of intel into this... There is no logic in the usb riser. It would just be a pin out.



usb based risers do not use the usb protocol at all.

the usb cables are just to transmit the pcie signals. it does not use the usb protocol at all. the usb cables are just used because they have enough signal lines, are shielded, have enough bandwidth, easy to source and are commonly available in decent lengths.

they could of used any cables, rs 232 or vga cables for instance. usb cables are easier, cheaper, smaller. so thats what they used.

the boards you see added onto the mobo have pcie lane splitter logic. so they would have to incorporate all that pcie lane splitting logic on the mobo. easier to just design add in boards with all that splitter logic on it for that.


----------



## hat (Aug 12, 2017)

It seems to me the market is making a little bit of a comeback recently...


----------



## silkstone (Aug 13, 2017)

hat said:


> It seems to me the market is making a little bit of a comeback recently...



BTC and ETH are a little more bullish, but the rest of the basket is still pretty bearish.


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 13, 2017)

So I found an old 16GB Transcend compact flash card kicking around in my families garage today.

Thought "what in the world is that?"

Looks like the kind I used to use as a cheapo SSD for bitcoin mining.

Hmmm.

I plug it into to my computer with an old CF->SATA Adapter.  To my amazement, an old circa 2013 bitcoin gentoo-based mining OS I developed for myself fires up, and begins syncing a wallet to blockchain (and failing pretty bad, but an update fixed that).

It has ~0.16 Bitcoins in it.  And my password works.

Guess what I did immediately after that?






I may even keep this one.  I love finding this kind of money "in the couch," so to speak.  It ages much better than loose change.

Next I see what BCC I'm eligible for off this.


----------



## hat (Aug 13, 2017)

Oh wow, BTC worth over $4000 right now. And yet mining isn't going anywhere near as well as it was a couple months ago when it was under $3000 :/


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 13, 2017)

hat said:


> Oh wow, BTC worth over $4000 right now. And yet mining isn't going anywhere near as well as it was a couple months ago when it was under $3000 :/



That's because the altcoins are still suffering hard.  That, and the more miners there are, naturally the less there is to go around.


----------



## yotano211 (Aug 13, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> That's because the altcoins are still suffering hard.  That, and the more miners there are, naturally the less there is to go around.


Ether difficulty jumped like mad these last 2 days.


----------



## Divide Overflow (Aug 13, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Ether difficulty jumped like mad these last 2 days.


Wow, you aren't kidding.  Shares are coming in at a trickle compared to just a few weeks ago.


----------



## notb (Aug 13, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Ether difficulty jumped like mad these last 2 days.


I don't think it did.
Jump in ETH difficulty happened on 2 weeks ago - nothing huge since then. At least according to the sites I've checked, e.g.:
https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/ethereum-difficulty.html#1y
What has to be said: difficulty of many crypto increased 2-4 times since June - possibly thanks to the surge of miners (BTC and ETH went up), since it seems to correlate with hashrate.
Weird thing: difficulty of Zcash is almost constant since beginning of July (when most are still going up). That's most likely why so many nicehash miners switched from ETH to ZEC lately.

Generally speaking, this is somehow sad. People are getting pulled into the mining craze because of exploding BTC price, but they're mining altcoins, so BTC has no implication on their earnings. And now it's the same with ETH, since it's getting less and less profitable.
Nicehash profitability calculator shows a most profitable strategy over last 30 days. It used to be almost purely ETH 2 months ago.
Today it's still mostly (sometimes 100%) ETH for AMD and for 1050Ti, but better NVIDIA's GPUs seem to prefer other algorithms. For 1070 it is just 15% ETH, for 1080Ti: 0 ETH.
Does anyone know why?


----------



## hat (Aug 13, 2017)

Has to do with their performance in those algorithms. The 1080, for example, will probably never run ETH because the 1080 uses GDDR5x, which performs worse than the plain old GDDR5 found on the 1070. The 1070 probably doesn't run ETH as often as the 1050Ti because the 1070 is a much beefier card which will perform better in other algorithms, like equihash, that the 1050Ti would fall short in. The same logic applies to the 1080 (and 1080Ti of course), the rest of the card is stronger than the 1070, but the GDDR5x is weaker when it comes to running ETH, so it's much more suited for equihash or something.


----------



## notb (Aug 13, 2017)

hat said:


> Has to do with their performance in those algorithms. The 1080, for example, will probably never run ETH because the 1080 uses GDDR5x, which performs worse than the plain old GDDR5 found on the 1070. The 1070 probably doesn't run ETH as often as the 1050Ti because the 1070 is a much beefier card which will perform better in other algorithms, like equihash, that the 1050Ti would fall short in. The same logic applies to the 1080 (and 1080Ti of course), the rest of the card is stronger than the 1070, but the GDDR5x is weaker when it comes to running ETH, so it's much more suited for equihash or something.


I kind of guessed that 1070 is better at other algorithms than DH - that's what we know from Nicehash recommendations...
I don't think it has anything to do with a card being stronger/beefier than something else. It must be down to some optimization (or core VS memory balance) specifics, resulting in algorithm "suitability". Have you seen a good text on that topic?
For example: AFAIK DH algo is very memory heavy. 1070 compared to 1050Ti has ~+15% of clock and memory speed. However, the core count is up 2.5x.


----------



## hat (Aug 13, 2017)

Yes but the 1070 is a 256-bit card while the 1050Ti is only 128-bit. DaggerHashimoto is indeed very memory heavy, but the 1070 has much stronger memory than the 1050Ti due to being clocked higher and double the bus width. However... the 1070 GPU is also much stronger. 2.5x the shaders, clocked much higher, double the ROPs...

But card performance is not the only factor. Sure some cards are inherently better than other cards at specific algorithms for one reason or another, but how well those algorithms are doing at the moment matters just as much, if not more. If ETH value shot up to $1000 tomorrow, even the 1080s with their crappy (ETH mining-wise) GDDR5x would be mining ETH. That's why Nicehash bounces around from algorithm to algorithm even on the same system where nothing else has changed, because it found better profitability with another algorithm besides the one it's running currently.


----------



## Divide Overflow (Aug 16, 2017)

AMD released a beta driver that fixes the Ethereum mining Hash rate degradation on Polaris and Vega cards.
http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-art...eta-for-Blockchain-Compute-Release-Notes.aspx


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Aug 16, 2017)

Be very careful with the loading of your gpus into your motherboards , devastating things can happen if it all goes wrong , ill elaborate more with pictures when I have a pc working.
But four pciex slots does Not mean four Gpu capable, unless on riser's with powered usb ends of course.

I did have silver lining moment in that I've a New motherboard ,only a 990x but no point going crazy and i was saving money for 1x vega 64 ,i think I got the last uk one too ,im calling it research.


----------



## trog100 (Aug 17, 2017)

a simple or maybe not so simple question.. i have been looking at ready built mining rigs on ebay.. in a lazy mood..

for around 4 grand or a bit over  i can buy an 8 x 1070 ring.. plug and play so to speak.. 

i could probably build one for just over 3 grand.. i am talking UK pounds not dollars.. although allowing for UK 20 vat a dollar pound swap would not be far out..

how long would it take to get my money back.. it would pull about 1000 watts from the wall..

trog


----------



## cdawall (Aug 17, 2017)

hat said:


> Has to do with their performance in those algorithms. The 1080, for example, will probably never run ETH because the 1080 uses GDDR5x, which performs worse than the plain old GDDR5 found on the 1070. The 1070 probably doesn't run ETH as often as the 1050Ti because the 1070 is a much beefier card which will perform better in other algorithms, like equihash, that the 1050Ti would fall short in. The same logic applies to the 1080 (and 1080Ti of course), the rest of the card is stronger than the 1070, but the GDDR5x is weaker when it comes to running ETH, so it's much more suited for equihash or something.



My 1070 box still runs ethereum. It is most profitable dual mining ethereal/lbry



verycharbroiled said:


> usb based risers do not use the usb protocol at all.
> 
> the usb cables are just to transmit the pcie signals. it does not use the usb protocol at all. the usb cables are just used because they have enough signal lines, are shielded, have enough bandwidth, easy to source and are commonly available in decent lengths.
> 
> ...



Correct thank you for repeating what I said with "there is no logic in the riser it is just a pin out"

The pcie lanes are not split on any of the boards out currently you could have 20 pcie (in usb adapted form) without doing anything. Add lane splitting from the chipset and you are at 36 on z270?

The 100 from that new biostar board has plx logic on the cards, but that cost money the 36 usb (pcie adapted) per board would be no more expensive than anything else on the market.


----------



## verycharbroiled (Aug 17, 2017)

Divide Overflow said:


> AMD released a beta driver that fixes the Ethereum mining Hash rate degradation on Polaris and Vega cards.
> http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-art...eta-for-Blockchain-Compute-Release-Notes.aspx



Only problem is it does not work with Windows 7. Claymore 9.8 crashes as soon as it connects to the pool.

And in Windows 10 there seem to be issues with power draw, clock settings, and voltage settings.



cdawall said:


> Correct thank you for repeating what I said with "there is no logic in the riser it is just a pin out"
> 
> The pcie lanes are not split on any of the boards out currently you could have 20 pcie (in usb adapted form) without doing anything. Add lane splitting from the chipset and you are at 36 on z270?
> 
> The 100 from that new biostar board has plx logic on the cards, but that cost money the 36 usb (pcie adapted) per board would be no more expensive than anything else on the market.



I think we're talking past each other.

Where would you find room on the motherboard put all those plx chips, usb sockets and associated logic?


----------



## cdawall (Aug 17, 2017)

verycharbroiled said:


> I think we're talking past each other.
> 
> Where would you find room on the motherboard put all those plx chips, usb sockets and associated logic?



Thats what I wish they would release for anything less than 36 lanes it doesn't need plx logic.


----------



## verycharbroiled (Aug 17, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Thats what I wish they would release for anything less than 36 lanes it doesn't need plx logic.



Ah, gotcha. Understood.


----------



## trog100 (Aug 18, 2017)

i have just priced up a mining rig using 8 x 1060 3 gig cards.. i have read that 3 gb is enough for now but in the future might not be.. the snag being that 6 gb 1060 cards cost 50% more than 3 gb ones do.. he he

this adds 800 bloody quid to an 8 card the machine..

the other option would be a machine based on 6 x 1070 cards.. the cost is about the same as 8 x 1060 6 gb cards.. the 1060 6 gb cards being somewhat over priced..

1060 3 gb = £200.. 1060 6 gb = £300.. 1070 = £400.. the 8 x 1060 3 gb seems a no brainer but not if its likley to suffer from not enough memory in the near future..

any thoughts chaps.. 

trog


----------



## Halo3Addict (Aug 18, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i have just priced up a mining rig using 8 x 1060 3 gig cards.. i have read that 3 gb is enough for now but in the future might not be.. the snag being that 6 gb 1060 cards cost 50% more than 3 gb ones do.. he he
> 
> this adds 800 bloody quid to an 8 card the machine..
> 
> ...



I'm going to be building a 5x 1060 6GB rig next week hopefully, I'll let you know my results. US prices they were $300 each


----------



## trog100 (Aug 18, 2017)

i have just checked scan prices.. a well known UK store for hardware and stuff..

i can buy 8 X 1060 3 gb cards for £1600.. 8 X 6 gb cards pumps the price up to £2400..

mining will not be as profitable in the UK.. the hardware costs more and our power bills will be higher..

i am now looking at 6 X 1070 cards.. they would cost me about the same as 8 X 1060 gb cards.. ether way at current hardware prices its gonna set me back £2400-ish if i risk it with the 3 gb cards or over 3 grand if i go ether of the other two ways..

the mining demand is  pushing the cost of the 1060 6 gb cards up high.. the 1070 cards not so high and 1060 3 gb cards not much at all..

just for comparisons sake allowing for 20% UK tax on everything we buy we seem to be running  a straight pound for dollar swap.. what would cost $300 dollars in the US costs £300 pounds in the UK.. 

trog


----------



## hat (Aug 18, 2017)

+1 on 6 1070s


----------



## trog100 (Aug 18, 2017)

hat said:


> +1 on 6 1070s



i recon that would be the way.. i have ordered an 8 card rack and if i fit two 850 watt PSUs or maybe two 700 watts i could start off with 6 x 1070s and add a couple more later when i recover from spending too much f-cking money all in one go.. he he

trog


----------



## Halo3Addict (Aug 18, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i recon that would be the way.. i have ordered an 8 card rack and if i fit two 850 watt PSUs or maybe two 700 watts i could start off with 6 x 1070s and add a couple more later when i recover from spending too much f-cking money all in one go.. he he
> 
> trog



That's why I went with the 1060s, a lot of initial investment for something I've never tried. If this goes well, I will re-evaluate the market and hardware costs in a year and perhaps invest in another rig. Something more aggressive


----------



## hat (Aug 18, 2017)

Just compared the 1070 with the 1060 (6GB) with the Nicehash calculator (the 1060 3GB doesn't seem to be available there anymore). The 1070s should do a little better than the 1060s while being a little more efficient. The difference isn't huge though.


----------



## toilet pepper (Aug 19, 2017)

Any idea how the new GTX1080 11gbps perform with nicehash? Is it any different from the current normal 1080 performance which is worse than the 1070?


----------



## cdawall (Aug 19, 2017)

toilet pepper said:


> Any idea how the new GTX1080 11gbps perform with nicehash? Is it any different from the current normal 1080 performance which is worse than the 1070?



Mine equihash, push the ram as high as you can.


----------



## silkstone (Aug 19, 2017)

I upgraded recently and now have a 1060 3gb, 1080 and 7870 mining.

I'm averaging ~ 900 H/s on ZEC and so quite happy.

Since the fan on the 7870 died, I've been using a 3A 80mm fan that sounds like a jet engine on 100%. I've ordered a replacement fan, but it'll take a while to get here


----------



## trog100 (Aug 19, 2017)

what i am not sure of is the viability of the 1060 3 gb card.. some say that 3 gb of vram wont be enough soon.. 

does anyone have any thoughts on this.. i am researching but my knowledge is still at the noob level..

at the prices i am looking at for an 8 X 1060 rig i am looking at an £800 quid difference between 3 or 6 gig cards.. 

there is a nice (new) 8 x 1060 6GB rig for sale on ebay.. the guy wants £3500 for it.. i offered him £3200 cash on collection and he refused the offer.. 

£3200 is about the build cost i have arrived at with current UK prices with ether of my more than 3 GB options..  

trog


----------



## trog100 (Aug 19, 2017)

hat said:


> Just compared the 1070 with the 1060 (6GB) with the Nicehash calculator (the 1060 3GB doesn't seem to be available there anymore). The 1070s should do a little better than the 1060s while being a little more efficient. The difference isn't huge though.


 
i think 6 x 1070 cards will be roughly similar to 8 X 1060 cards.. currently (in the UK at least) the price to buy and power running costs would be about the same..  i recon i will go for the 6 X 1070 option and leave room for a couple more 1070s later..

trog

ps.. well.. the deed is done.. all i have to do now is figure out what to do with all the bits i am about to receive.. he he..

Asus Prime Z270 A Kaby Lake SLi/CrossFire ATX Motherboard  $155

Corsair RM850x modular PSU.. £118 X 2 = £236

Corsair 8GB DDR4 Vengeance LPX 2133MHz Memory Kit for Skylake  £70

EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 SC 8GB ACX 3.0 Black Edition  £400 X 6 = £2400..

Intel Core i3 7100 Kaby Lake Desktop Processor/CPU  £100


----------



## yotano211 (Aug 20, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i think 6 x 1070 cards will be roughly similar to 8 X 1060 cards.. currently (in the UK at least) the price to buy and power running costs would be about the same..  i recon i will go for the 6 X 1070 option and leave room for a couple more 1070s later..
> 
> trog
> 
> ...


You dont need 8gb of Ram and a i3 processor, you can do with any Celeron cpu.


----------



## trog100 (Aug 20, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> You dont need 8gb of Ram and a i3 processor, you can do with any Celeron cpu.



i know.. i always tend go a little over the top.. the difference isnt much relative to the cost of all the other bits.. i was a bit surprised how much ram has gone up in price.. 

the biggest saving would have been from using 8 x 3 GB 1060 cards.. i could have saved £800 quid that way.. 

i have also spent a £100 quid on a nice looking 8 card open frame as opposed to the more common home made wooden efforts.. 

i still aint entirely sure about using two PSUs ether.. information is very conflicting about that one.. 

trog


----------



## notb (Aug 20, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i know.. i always tend go a little over the top.. the difference isnt much relative to the cost of all the other bits.. i was a bit surprised how much ram has gone up in price..
> 
> the biggest saving would have been from using 8 x 3 GB 1060 cards.. i could have saved £800 quid that way..
> 
> i have also spent a £100 quid on a nice looking 8 card open frame as opposed to the more common home made wooden efforts..


I see you're not getting into mining for the money. For what then? There are cheaper ways of making your house warm, you know...


----------



## trog100 (Aug 20, 2017)

notb said:


> I see you're not getting into mining for the money. For what they? There are cheaper ways of making your house warm, you know...


 
i am getting into mining partly for something to play with and a feeling that if i dont i may be missing out.. he he..

as to money its all an unknown.. i dont think i am gonna lose out and i may make something.. but it will be an interesting trip finding out.. 

most things i get interested in (hobbies) cost me money.. the odd one makes me money.. but when the bug bites i kind of have to go for it.. he he..

trog


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 20, 2017)

notb said:


> There are cheaper ways of making your house warm, you know...



Considering it has the opurtunity to pay a net profit, I kind of doubt it.  Unless you are talking upfront cost.


----------



## trog100 (Aug 20, 2017)

notb is playing the negative naysayer role in this thread.. i dont mind the role he is playing an opposing view is always of value..

i know i have just dumped a fair bit of dosh into something that may not pay off.. one thing i am sure of is that nothing in this world is certain any more.. some say the entire stock market is in a bubble just waiting to pop.. something i think is true..

nukes could start flying who the f-ck knows.. i am inclined to think notb knows f-ck all and is just playing the role he is playing for fun.. 

if he does know something i dont know i would be glad to hear it..

do i trust my dosh sat in a bank earning f-ck all.. nope that could go poof.. when it all come down to it its all just digits in the cyber ether.. nothing is real any more.. he he..

trog


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 20, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i am getting into mining partly for something to play with and a feeling that if i dont i may be missing out.. he he..
> 
> as to money its all an unknown.. i dont think i am gonna lose out and i may make something.. but it will be an interesting trip finding out..
> 
> ...


finally, trog actually using his hardware instead of neutering its performance!!


----------



## notb (Aug 20, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Considering it has the opurtunity to pay a net profit, I kind of doubt it.  Unless you are talking upfront cost.


Precisely speaking: there exists a probability distribution that describes the possible financial results. By increasing the costs you're just making the profit less probable (and lower).



trog100 said:


> notb is playing the negative naysayer role in this thread..


That depends how you look at it. I'm clearly not against blockchain and most of the time I'm not even against cryptocurrencies.
I just have some experience in finance (and in investing in particular). I'm just trying to point out some risks involved in this. And I started doing this when profitability was enormous and this thread was full of people keen to get into mining, spending thousands of USD, buying dozens of cards. Look what happened since then.

Think about it this way. If you go to a bank with some cash to invest, they'll try to give you all the risky products with very high potential return. But your friend or family will tell you not to, that it's all rubbish. How is "playing the negative role" in that situation?

That said, I don't really understand why you're starting mining now. Profitability is really bad - most "home miners" already quit or at least stopped investing into this (looking at GPU prices).


----------



## trog100 (Aug 20, 2017)

i just spend over two grand on a DJI camera drone which could fall out of the sky any moment.. the odd flutter on a mining rig to help relieve the boredom dosnt seem to carry much risk.. 

i do wonder what happens next though.. as far as i can work out blockchain needs miners.. will they all end up being in china maybe they will.. cheapest hardware and cheapest power costs the only place its profitable..

but as yet the only way i see me making any dosh is if the coins i mine now go up in value big time.. i am assuming they will when traditional money disappears up its own arse.. i am not looking at a quick profit.. i intend to mine and keep what i mine..  

trog


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## Vya Domus (Aug 20, 2017)

trog100 said:


> when traditional money disappears up its own arse..



Never going to happen or at least not how you would want it to happen.


----------



## trog100 (Aug 20, 2017)

Vya Domus said:


> Never going to happen or at least not how you would want it to happen.


 
i dont want it to happen.. but officialdom dosnt like cash and would love to get rid of it.. crypto could help destroy fiat cash.. that was my first thought when i saw bitcoin rapidly going up in value.. its increase in value will be at the expense of something else.. precious metals or more probably fiat cash the US dollar..

the world is awash with debt.. the only way its gonna get paid back is with valueless fiat money.. which is what i meant by cash disappearing up its own arse.. how about cash notes with a "spend by date" on them.. you can have some but if it aint spent within four weeks it becomes worthless.. he he..

everything i read kind of suggests that crypto is the future.. assuming we have one.. i aint so sure of that ether.. 

trog


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## Vya Domus (Aug 20, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i dont want it to happen.. but officialdom dosnt like cash and would love to get rid of it.. crypto could help destroy fiat cash.. that was my first thought when i saw bitcoin rapidly going up in value.. its increase in value will be at the expense of something else.. precious metals or more probably fiat cash the US dollar..
> 
> the world is awash with debt.. the only way its gonna get paid back is with valueless fiat money.. which is what i meant by cash disappearing up its own arse.. how about cash notes with a "spend by date" on them.. you can have some but if it aint spent within four weeks it becomes worthless.. he he..
> 
> ...



Thing is , the reason why people like crypto so much is because of mining , most couldn't care less about what advantages it carries.

If crypto truly is the future then it will be no good , we will go back to what we have today in one way or another. You can't get rid of things such as external debt so easily.

Anyway , we'll see eventually.


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 20, 2017)

> Thing is , the reason why people like crypto so much is because of mining , most couldn't care less about what advantages it carries.



Most invested in crypto have nothing to do with mining.


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## r9 (Aug 20, 2017)

notb said:


> Precisely speaking: there exists a probability distribution that describes the possible financial results. By increasing the costs you're just making the profit less probable (and lower).
> 
> 
> That depends how you look at it. I'm clearly not against blockchain and most of the time I'm not even against cryptocurrencies.
> ...


Too bad all my comments on you are getting deleted.
To all stop feeding the troll.
To the troll nobody gives a f$#% about what you think or do.

While you were wasting your time convincing everybody that mining is not a smart investment I did 100% return on my investment.
Invested $700 in one gtx 1070 and two 1060s and already had rx 480.
Even if you don't make money its still fun.
That's something you will never understand.


----------



## Vya Domus (Aug 20, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Most invested in crypto have nothing to do with mining.



I'd assume you're talking about the ones that use crypto like the stock market , although I doubt those are the majority. Or maybe those that genuinely believe in crypto as replacement for traditional currency ?

Still , for the rest , like the ones in this thread, it's all about mining you can't say it isn't. Crypto not cypto , they couldn't care less really , it's a way to get some cash nothing more.


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## R-T-B (Aug 20, 2017)

Vya Domus said:


> I'd assume you're talking about the ones that use crypto like the stock market



Yes, and those are well established to be the majority.  I mean who do you think buys the mined coins?  It certainly isn't other miners.

As for the rest, you do realize you can be both a miner and crypto advocate, right?


----------



## Vya Domus (Aug 20, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> As for the rest, you do realize you can be both a miner and crypto advocate, right?



I do , I just don't think there are many that care about the latter.


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## R-T-B (Aug 20, 2017)

Vya Domus said:


> I do , I just don't think there are many that care about the latter.



I agree that's probably true.  But that's more a human issue than a crypto issue.  People like money...  period.


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## notb (Aug 20, 2017)

r9 said:


> To the troll nobody gives a f$#% about what you think or do.


Well... I did have a few nice and intelligent conversations in this thread. Not with you, obviously.


> While you were wasting your time convincing everybody that mining is not a smart investment I did 100% return on my investment.


No, you didn't (not possible) - unless your cards are second-hand and were cheap. But more likely you just can't calculate properly.
According to your posts you've started mining with your 1060s on 16/06 - 67 days ago, which is more or less the ROI on 1060 from the peak profitability (assuming cheap electricity - e.g. in US).
But profits quickly dropped afterwards, so if you didn't hedge this (unlikely) I'd say you're somewhere around 60-70% ROI.

My bet would be that you're just looking at the total inflow (how much coins generated vs how much you've spent on GPUs since June), so you're most likely "financing" your GTX investment with the RX480 you had earlier. And you might also be forgetting about energy costs.


> Even if you don't make money its still fun.
> That's something you will never understand.


Well... one can have fun in many ways. I'm not going to evaluate that here!
In this thread I was concentrating purely on the profitability (mean and variance, so to speak).
However, you're right about one thing: I would have absolutely no fun from maintaining mining rigs and optimizing hashrate. That is pretty boring.

And I can also tell you that in the last 2 months I made more on cryptocurrencies than you did. How funny is that? ;-]


----------



## r9 (Aug 21, 2017)

notb said:


> Well... I did have a few nice and intelligent conversations in this thread. Not with you, obviously.
> 
> No, you didn't (not possible) - unless your cards are second-hand and were cheap. But more likely you just can't calculate properly.
> According to your posts you've started mining with your 1060s on 16/06 - 67 days ago, which is more or less the ROI on 1060 from the peak profitability (assuming cheap electricity - e.g. in US).
> ...



You can look at the ROI the same way for graphics cards vs bitcoin miners for example.
Because when bitcoin miner comes obsolete they doesn't worth a penny.
I can sell the cards tomorrow for profit and keep all the money.

And you keep saying that you can make more money in trading cryptocurrencies than mining.
But that is you, might not apply to me.
Maybe I'm not good in trading, I might even lose money. 

All your statements only apply to you: I have this experience I have that diploma etc.
We get it you can make more money other ways, good for you.
Just go and do whatever makes you happy.
This thread is for people who are committed to mining or thinking about starting to mine.
You are not being helpful at all.
So what is your point in all of this ?


----------



## notb (Aug 21, 2017)

r9 said:


> You can look at the ROI the same way for graphics cards vs bitcoin miners for example.
> Because when bitcoin miner comes obsolete they doesn't worth a penny.
> I can sell the cards tomorrow for profit and keep all the money.


So you're admitting that you haven't really earned what you suggested earlier. You just have a card that you can sell. Correct?
You don't have the money - you only have so called _means of production_ which you may or may not sell.

What you've said there is pretty stupid, to be honest.
It means that for you every investment is instantly profitable, because - assuming you're paying the fair price (= as much as the product will earn in the future) - you can always sell it and get your money back.



> And you keep saying that you can make more money in trading cryptocurrencies than mining.
> But that is you, might not apply to me.
> Maybe I'm not good in trading, I might even lose money.


You could lose money on mining as well. 

Putting aside the potential resale value of your cards, can you tell how much you've actually made (mining revenue - energy cost)?
Since you're advertising mining as a great idea, wouldn't showing your results be the best argument to support that claim?

Actually, I don't think I've been putting so much stress on trading earlier. I'm sure I once mentioned hedging, which makes it possible to mine at the price you want, not the current market price.
But this is a basic production concept. All mines (and manufacturers in other industries - e.g. farming) use some financial instruments to lower market risk. It can be hedging, it can be contracting. In the end it's the same thing: there is a financial instrument that guarantees you a particular selling price of your product.
Large crypto mining companies do it as well. 

So I merely presented a concept that is widely used in the activity we're discussing here.
This has nothing to do with speculative trading that I do.



> All your statements only apply to you: I have this experience I have that diploma etc.


I don't think I've ever mentioned any diploma (I didn't study finance). But someone has already used an argument like this one - a situation I find quite weird. Unless it was you back then as well - that will make you weird, not the situation.

Yes, I have some experience in investment and risk management. I'm trying to share it, because it is useful in the matter we're discussing. Just like you're trying to share your experience in overclocking. What's wrong with that?

And please don't give me answers like "this is a computer enthusiast forum" or "building mining rigs is fun".
People in this thread haven't been asking if starting mining will be fun. They're asking how much can be earned.



> This thread is for people who are committed to mining or thinking about starting to mine.


Exactly that! For people who are thinking about starting to mine!
So you think that answers should only be coming from the "committed" people - i.e. "mining is great, do it!", right? No need for someone who will say "you might lose money"?
Are you old enough to remember the 2007 crisis? :-D



> You are not being helpful at all. So what is your point in all of this ?


And what is yours?
Your activity here does nothing useful - unlike a few people that gave actual hints on optimizing rigs etc. If anything, you're actually harming people that currently think about starting mining - just like you did in your previous comment about 100% return. All your previous comments were very similar: no risk, free money etc.
So you're either advertising mining or bashing me. That's "being helpful"? :-D

If we made a big pool - asking everyone that started mining after reading this thread, how many would be happy with the outcome? Wanna bet? :-D


----------



## trog100 (Aug 21, 2017)

miners are the workers.. for their efforts they are rewarded with a small amount of coin..

the real money will be made in other more conventional ways.. i have never been a market trader but i am prepared to become a miner.. i have no problems with someone like notb putting across the negatives.. 

i am also looking forward to all my bits and pieces arriving and putting it all together.. i like fiddling with stuff so i dont view mining as simply a way of making some extra money it is more of a hobby thing with me..

i look forward to this thread continuing and containing some useful information.. hey oh hey ho its off to work we go.. he he..

trog


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Aug 21, 2017)

@trog100

good luck with your new venture/hobby. im looking forward to seeing your results.


I decided to invest in a new hobby for the summer.....fishing. So far, my investment has netted me nothing.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Aug 21, 2017)

notb said:


> So you're admitting that you haven't really earned what you suggested earlier. You just have a card that you can sell. Correct?
> You don't have the money - you only have so called _means of production_ which you may or may not sell.
> 
> What you've said there is pretty stupid, to be honest.
> ...


Time to get helpful then , you mentioned hedging to mine for what price i want , so advise me how would you mine to make the most return on investment ,i mine through a pool already and I've not heard of anywhere to mine or anything to mine where i pick the price i want to mine at.


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## r9 (Aug 21, 2017)

notb said:


> So you're admitting that you haven't really earned what you suggested earlier. You just have a card that you can sell. Correct?
> You don't have the money - you only have so called _means of production_ which you may or may not sell.
> 
> What you've said there is pretty stupid, to be honest.
> ...



So far nothing you said in this thread is helpful to anyone.
Just throwing terms and theories around.
I for example I've been helpful by answered people questions  and trying to get rid of you. lol
Second of all I don't try to convince people either way good or bad.
I just give them facts and they need to decide for them selves.
Would I start mining at current condition, provable not.
But I've already put the work in have the machines setup so they don't need my intervention at all they just make me money.
I've sad this before I do a lot of stuff like fixing and modding consoles never saw it as a extra income just something to support my hobbies.


----------



## cdawall (Aug 21, 2017)

So couple of updates as far as rma service with companies. Now none of these cards have failed while mining, but will be mining after the fact.

EVGA-less than a week turn around first card back bad. This is not the first time I have had this issue with EVGA. The tech argued if the card was bad the second time as well.

Powercolor-going on two weeks now no card back as of yet. Shows completed testing and failed card on their webpage. I assume since it is a 480 this is a stock issue.

MSI-within 2 days of receipt notified card was bad and not replaceable due to no stock offered a buyout that was $130 less than purchase price, MSI offered full refund if I could provide receipt (was on vacation and did not have a copy). Before I had a chance to get the receipt MSI got new cards in and has already shipped a new one back ups ground (will be in Wednesday).

Gigabyte-two cards shipped in together both cards repaired and shipped back within 1.5 weeks this included waiting on parts for the 390. This is the second fully satisfied experience I have had with them. For all the horror stories they seem great to me.

Overall if I had to rate service MSI, GB, powercolor, EVGA in best to worst. Mainly disappointed in the QC if EVGA.


----------



## verycharbroiled (Aug 21, 2017)

Had to rma a msi 470/4 armor (hynix ram, was dual mining at the time), took about 3 weeks. Got a 470/4 armor with Samsung ram back. Sweet.

Only card I've had to rma, have 6 assorted mining cards currently, plus had maybe 8 others over the years with btc/ltc and f@h that never had any problems aside from a fan failure on a HD4850.


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## cdawall (Aug 22, 2017)

Just picked up a pair of Z170-AR's for $55 each. Going to swap my X99 stuff out. These boards are tested working with 7 GPU's so should help me consolidate up


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## silkstone (Aug 22, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Just picked up a pair of Z170-AR's for $55 each. Going to swap my X99 stuff out. These boards are tested working with 7 GPU's so should help me consolidate up



I think one of the slots on that is PCI rather than PCIe, no? Wouldn't that mean 6 GPUs max?

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/Z170-AR/specifications/


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## cdawall (Aug 22, 2017)

silkstone said:


> I think one of the slots on that is PCI rather than PCIe, no? Wouldn't that mean 6 GPUs max?
> 
> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/Z170-AR/specifications/



The m.2 slot can be converted over for the 7th card


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## silkstone (Aug 22, 2017)

cdawall said:


> The m.2 slot can be converted over for the 7th card



Nice. I Never knew that was possible.


----------



## trog100 (Aug 22, 2017)

well my big box of bits has arrived yesterday.. i was kind of surprised how heavy the box was.. 6 x 1070 cards and couple of 850 PSUs plus motherboard and cpu weigh in at a fair bit.. he he..

i wont get the frame and some other small stuff for a couple of days so cant really put much together..

i have the mobo and one card running just to make sure those bits work and to let me install software.. i did a C drive clone from my normal gaming machine.. it surprised me by remaining activated.. two similar asus motherboards maybe..

i am about to install nicehash and set up a wallet.. any tips would be appreciated.. he he..

the noise and temp factors seem good.. the I3 kaby lake cpu runs silently at around 50 C with a small  artic I11 cooler.. and the EVGA black edition 1070 runs near silent at about 60 C running furmark with a plus 500 mhz on the memory.. i left the core at stock and dropped the max power to 85%.. it seems stable at this..

trog

ps.. i am kind of stuck with this wallet business.. its complicated.. i dont want to transact with the stuff i just need somewhere to put it and leave it..


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## silkstone (Aug 22, 2017)

trog100 said:


> ps.. i am kind of stuck with this wallet business.. its complicated.. i dont want to transact with the stuff i just need somewhere to put it and leave it..



As you're using Nicehash, you might just want to use the bitcoin core wallet (though it will take a while to sync initially)
https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet

Make an encrypted backup of your wallet.dat and think about keeping an offline copy too (on usb)

Also, make sure that you run a firewall and AV on whatever computer you are using for your wallet.


----------



## verycharbroiled (Aug 22, 2017)

silkstone said:


> you might just want to use the bitcoin core wallet (though it will take a while to sync initially)
> https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet
> 
> Make an encrypted backup of your wallet.dat and think about keeping an offline copy too (on usb)
> ...



agreed, bitcoin core is the gold standard. https://bitcoin.org/en/download

you will need space for the blockchain, currently around 130 gigs. use a SSD if possible for the blockchain it will speed up initial syncing (core uses tons of I/O). probably take a day (or several) depending on your internet speed.

make sure you encrypt your wallet with a passphrase. and back up wallet.dat to several places.

the new version of the core wallet can use seed words when creating a new wallet to allow you to recreate the wallet, including all balances if it all goes into the weeds for whatever reason. make sure you copy them down and keep copies of that several secure places too. *do not* keep the list of seed works on any internet connected computer, as anyone who gets your seed words can empty your wallet, even if your computer is offline. i keep a copy of my seed words in a safe deposit box among other places.


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## cdawall (Aug 22, 2017)

I used electrum prior to just swapping to coinbase. You don't need any space to store anything. It is all offsite accessed like any other banking app.


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## trog100 (Aug 22, 2017)

am i wrong in assuming nicehash has its own wallet.. if so whats the pros and cons of using it.. 

coinbase refused to authenticate me.. i made the mistake of giving it my landline number.. it was all down hill from then on.. 

trog


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## Halo3Addict (Aug 22, 2017)

verycharbroiled said:


> agreed, bitcoin core is the gold standard. https://bitcoin.org/en/download
> 
> you will need space for the blockchain, currently around 130 gigs. use a SSD if possible for the blockchain it will speed up initial syncing (core uses tons of I/O). probably take a day (or several) depending on your internet speed.
> 
> ...



Damn, I totally forgot about storing the blockchain locally. Guess I'll try a third-party service until a get a larger SSD.


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## verycharbroiled (Aug 23, 2017)

Halo3Addict said:


> Damn, I totally forgot about storing the blockchain locally. Guess I'll try a third-party service until a get a larger SSD.



there is an option in core to prune all but the last so many blocks (user configurable i believe). dont recall what the command line option is but it will prevent the need to store 80 or 90% of the blockchain. it still needs to download (to verify) them before discarding them. so SSD is still your best bet.

shoulda mentioned that, but forgot. i like to have the whole blockchain local for various reasons.


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## hat (Aug 23, 2017)

Nicehash does have their own wallet, but all you can do with it is use the bitcoin you've mined to pay someone else to mine bitcoin for you. If you want to see any cash from your operation you'll need to use an exchange like Coinbase. Sucks that they didn't authorize you. I'm sure there are other services like it, but I don't know their names. If you're planning on just building up BTC and leaving it, it would probably be better to use another service, though.


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## trog100 (Aug 23, 2017)

hat said:


> Nicehash does have their own wallet, but all you can do with it is use the bitcoin you've mined to pay someone else to mine bitcoin for you. If you want to see any cash from your operation you'll need to use an exchange like Coinbase. Sucks that they didn't authorize you. I'm sure there are other services like it, but I don't know their names. If you're planning on just building up BTC and leaving it, it would probably be better to use another service, though.


 

i have the nicehash wallet set up now.. what confused me was i never logged into the the dashboard soon enough.. as soon as i did and got the wallet address its all seemed obvious..

i dont want to turn anything into cash i simply want to mine the coin and let it accumulate and see where it goes over time.. the only downside i see with nicehash is it only pays you in bitcoin.. but that might not be a downside who konws.. i for sure dont.. 

using another email address and not being daft enough to put my landline phone in i recon i will be able to get coinbase going.. it f-cked up with the photo id.. i tried sending one with my mobile but it wanted the landline number i had put in..  then i tried to change my phone number and it went into security mode and refused to verify the web cam stuff it insisted i use.. he he..

dumb f-ck software that would not let me use the email that it had already verified to send it photo id the only option it gave me was a f-cking blurry web cam..

trog


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## 111frodon (Aug 24, 2017)

About those wallet, i just wanted to tell everyone that quadrigacx is really a good option. At first i tried to use coinbase, and it worked, but i just could not cash on my earnings. I live in Canada and coinbase cannot be used to transfer to my bank account. With quadrigacx, i can buy/sell Bitcoins (obviously that's how i transform what nicehash gives me into cash), bitcoin cash and ethereum and transfer the money into my bank account, all from one screen. Really easy to use and quite a bit secure if you use all security options available. I receive the money within 24 hours to three weeks (that's not precise at all i know). So in short it does everything i need. I highly recommend it to any Canadian miner. 

I could just store my Bitcoins here and wait, but the many times i red about a site just going down and taking everything with it scare me enough to just use the cash instead.


----------



## verycharbroiled (Aug 24, 2017)

At coinbase if you just do their Tier 1 verification all you need is your name and I believe a mobile number. No need for photo IDs or anything like that. I linked it to my bank account so all I have to do to cash out is send coin from my core wallet to my coinbase account, sell it and it automatically goes to my bank account. Tier one allows up to $2,000 withdraw per day.

I mine at nicehash and send payouts to my core wallet. I don't like leaving coin at an exchange, they are not wallets as you don't control your private keys. Although many folks do use exchanges as wallets, it's not recommended.


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## trog100 (Aug 24, 2017)

i dont think cash (money in the bank) is a good thing to hold at the moment.. it can only go down in value and i dont trust the banks.. to be honest the only way i see as to making a mining profit is to hold the coin i mine  long term and hope it goes up in value.. my tin foil hat machine tells me it will.. he he..

i have worked it out and recon it will maybe take a year to get my hardware and leccy costs back.. my only hope for profit will be if the coin i mine doubles in value.. converting it to fiat money in the bank seems a negative thing to be doing.. in short i am investing in bitcoin.. mining is just a hardware geeks way in.. 

i have tried a test run on my gaming machine just to see.. its not looking that good it tells me my mining rig will generate $20 dollars per day or £140 dollars per week.. in UK pounds maybe five grand in a year.. my hardware costs are about £3200 and a years leccy will be at east £1250..

as i say its not looking that good unless the mined coin goes up in value..  he he

trog

ps.. i am gonna join notb here and say if a quick profit is your thing there are easier ways of heating your house..


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## silkstone (Aug 24, 2017)

Does anyone holding for the long term diversify any?

I'm not cashing out, as I don't make enough for it to be worth it really.

I am mining ZCash and exchanging part of it it for Ether (40%) Ripple (10%), SC & VTC (5%) and other (1%)

I'd be interested to hear of any other suggestions for diversifying. There are a large number of coins out there.
The big 3 seem to be BTC, ETH and XRP.
SiaCoin seems interesting as it has the potential to disrupt the cloud storage market, especially if industry get involved more.
Vertcoin was really cheap, so I figure buying a few units as a hail Mary wouldn't do any harm.

Has anyone else come across anything worthy of a few % investment for diversification?


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Aug 24, 2017)

silkstone said:


> Does anyone holding for the long term diversify any?
> 
> I'm not cashing out, as I don't make enough for it to be worth it really.
> 
> ...


I would suggest Litecoin and monero as two more.


----------



## horik (Aug 24, 2017)

SAFEX seems like a good buy atm,what you think of this asset?


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## notb (Aug 24, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Time to get helpful then , you mentioned hedging to mine for what price i want , so advise me how would you mine to make the most return on investment ,i mine through a pool already and I've not heard of anywhere to mine or anything to mine where i pick the price i want to mine at.



No problem. 

Most home miners use one of 2 most natural strategies: they either cash crypto ASAP (selling at market price) or they accumulate it until the price goes up (selling at last price in a "mining period").
Hedging means choosing the third option: selling at the first price - the one true when you start mining. So the essential mechanism is simple: *you sell first and produce afterwards*.

Mining companies (I mean physical commodities: coal and stuff) are contracted - they sign an agreement with a buyer that - at some particular moment in the future - they'll ship their product for some agreed price (hence the instrument name: _futures_). But since we're talking about small volumes here, you don't have to find a contractor (someone who will really buy your crypto). You can buy a futures contract (a financial instrument) on a crypto exchange and just sell it later.
I will use BitMEX in this example (which doesn't mean I recommend this site - it was the first google result for "ethereum futures").
Here's their contract for ETH/BTC: https://www.bitmex.com/app/contract/ETHU17
Once you get this, you're not affected by ETH variability any more - just that of BTC (because you know how much BTC you'll get for your ETH).

Example:
Lets say it's 2017-06-19 and ETH is worth 0.14 BTC - you like the price, so you buy the contract above for some _Y_ ETH.
Lets assume that today is exactly the moment when you accumulated_ Y_ ETH. You sell both the contract and the ETH (for BTC!).
What is the total outcome? You get as much BTC as if the ETH price was 0.14 during these ~10 weeks (while in reality it was different).

The lucky part of this is that BTC went significantly up lately. So how much did you make in USD?
Exactly as much as if you were just mining ETH and cashing as soon as possible - like most do - ... if the price was constant ~$582 (0.14*4160). 

In reality you'd usually hedge (secure yourself with contracts) in the currency you're earning/spending the most. So if you'd get an ETH/USD contract in the above scenario, you'd be mining at constant $360 (the price from 2017-06-19) - still not bad.

Does this sound complicated? I guess it might, but it's pretty simple to perform. If you don't feel very well with these kind of activity, you could ask someone for help. I guess in 2017 everyone has a friend working in finance. 

Where's the catch?
Of course financial instruments are not free (someone is taking your risk after all). What I've described above would cost something like 3% of the revenue, so even over 10% of profits (if your GPUs aren't effective and electricity is expensive).



CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> I decided to invest in a new hobby for the summer.....fishing. So far, my investment has netted me nothing.


Unnecessary sarcasm. And spending money on something is not investing if you don't do it for profit.



r9 said:


> So far nothing you said in this thread is helpful to anyone.
> I for example I've been helpful by answered people questions  and trying to get rid of you. lol
> Second of all I don't try to convince people either way good or bad.
> I just give them facts and they need to decide for them selves.


You see, here's where our approaches differ. I do believe there is more to life than just answering questions precisely. Sometimes you can share a bit of additional information/wisdom as well.
If someone asked on this forum about the most effective way to commit a suicide, would you call an answer "cyanide poisoning" more helpful than "don't do it"?

Also, I don't think you're as straightforward in answering questions as you might think.
If someone asked "which $10 cooler would be best for my overclocked 7700K?" you would tell him that this is no good and he should get a better one, wouldn't you?



> But I've already put the work in have the machines setup so they don't need my intervention at all they just make me money.


According to more experienced miners here, it's not as easy as you say. Rigs need maintenance (at least resetting when they crash and cleaning). Someone has even called it a "full-time job" (although I do believe he had a bit more gear than you do).


> I've sad this before I do a lot of stuff like fixing and modding consoles never saw it as a extra income just something to support my hobbies.


And I've said before that I'm not talking about a situation when someone is doing this for fun. But some people in this topic were clearly after the profit and they weren't warned that at least some of those recommending mining see it as a great hobby.
At least one guy here said he is betting on mining to pay his mortgage/taxes!

BTW: I have to point how your (and other mining fans' here) opinion on mining evolved in this thread:
1) Great profitability (June): basically free money; no risk; one should cash out instantly; ROI in 2 months!
2) Decreasing profitability (July, early August): surely will go up; don't cash out - hold BTC because it'll be worth 10x more.
3) Awful situation we have today: it's a great hobby.
Correct, isn't it?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Aug 24, 2017)

notb said:


> No problem.
> 
> Most home miners use one of 2 most natural strategies: they either cash crypto ASAP (selling at market price) or they accumulate it until the price goes up (selling at last price in a "mining period").
> Hedging means choosing the third option: selling at the first price - the one true when you start mining. So the essential mechanism is simple: *you sell first and produce afterwards*.
> ...


Well at least its along the lines of helpful , however when i started this i accepted its cost as a tool for speculation and in my admittedly unlearned hands i mined aprox £430 but through buying and selling portions of it i got it upto 689 ,i then admittedly self spanked my way out of £80 , but im up or was until i rash bought this vega.

ill look into this though because if its as you say , the best way ,then ill happily defer to a better way of doing things  ,and as the above demonstrates im learning still.

on the topic of learning a few weeks ago i had a worse case scenario, main pc gaming/mining rig blown up.

its the one still listed since ive not changed that yet but i have i swear ran 5 gpus in it before , so thought four rx 580s would be fine with one on a riser. it looked nice check the pics

note the nice colour of the power feed wires in pcd2,3, i didnt when i took the pics.

@erocker it took me some time to post because i didnt know what to say or do.

after fixing it via new motherboard and psu cables(one sata power feed down for life thoguh since it melted) i came to realise id had a water leak so thought id investigate further since one rx480/580 stopped working i deblocked it and found water in its vrms, it was the top card so i thought well waters dripped from my shitty swivel monsoon fittings on the cpu block over time , picked up dirt and blew the shit out of stuff, not that simple either.

upon further investigation the monsoon fittings are crap and gone now but i killed it , it was me.

i fitted some hepa filter in the res two years ago and it caught stuff fine for that time however it went brittle as chalk dusk blocked a gpu block which then blew a fitting and drowned gpu1s pciex socket and vrms leading to loads of power killing both motherboards power feeds cables and connectors, not good but i bought good stuff , the psu is fine and mines on in a miner and im on a crappy gigabyte fx mobo for a bit , the gpu got fixed up fine last night after a big cleanup and i hope to save my crosshair via swapping its connectors soon but i learned some stuff yet again.

1 dont put anything and i mean anything that isnt specifically designed for pc waterloops in a pc waterloop.


----------



## verycharbroiled (Aug 24, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i dont think cash (money in the bank) is a good thing to hold at the moment.. it can only go down in value and i dont trust the banks.. to be honest the only way i see as to making a mining profit is to hold the coin i mine  long term and hope it goes up in value.. my tin foil hat machine tells me it will.. he he..
> trog



i sell enough to cover electric every month, and occasionally pull some for toys for the wife and i. used it for vacation money this year also.

but i hodl most coin as im a believer in crypto.



silkstone said:


> Does anyone holding for the long term diversify any?
> [...]
> I'd be interested to hear of any other suggestions for diversifying. There are a large number of coins out there.
> [...]
> Has anyone else come across anything worthy of a few % investment for diversification?



keep in mind im no expert, but i also hold eth and ltc at the moment. may keep a few bcc/bch just in case it goes somewhere, but i sold most for btc.


----------



## cdawall (Aug 24, 2017)

notb said:


> And I've said before that I'm not talking about a situation when someone is doing this for fun. But some people in this topic were clearly after the profit and they weren't warned that at least some of those recommending mining see it as a great hobby.
> At least one guy here said he is betting on mining to pay his mortgage/taxes!
> 
> BTW: I have to point how your (and other mining fans' here) opinion on mining evolved in this thread:
> ...



Since some of us started earlier when ROI was still very good, a lot are paid off and just mining for the heck if it. I still make $1500 a month with the few boxes I have going, but had to put some form of effort into efficiency. Everything evolves over time and this has been no different. With the right equipment it is still heavily profitable.


----------



## trog100 (Aug 24, 2017)

my miner is up and running on three 1070 cards.. i have lost the bit to connect up the other PSU to run the other three cards..

the evga black edition  cards are still at stock.. i  havent tweaked them as yet..






trog


----------



## Halo3Addict (Aug 24, 2017)

trog100 said:


> my miner is up and running on three 1070 cards.. i have lost the bit to connect up the other PSU to run the other three cards..
> 
> the evga black edition  cards are still at stock.. i  havent tweaked them as yet..
> 
> trog



Seems like pretty good results. How many watts are you pulling from the wall? Or each card?

I had to return my PSU because it was DOA. Hoping to get my replacement on Friday.


----------



## trog100 (Aug 24, 2017)

running six card i estimate a bit less than 1000 watts..  on three a bit over half that..150 watts or a bit less per card.. all estimates i havnt tried a watt-meter yet..

the estimated money return per day looks abysmal.. he he..

trog


----------



## Halo3Addict (Aug 24, 2017)

trog100 said:


> running six card i estimate a bit less than 1000 watts..  on three a bit over half that..150 watts or a bit less per card.. all estimates i havnt tried a watt-meter yet..
> 
> the estimated money return per day looks abysmal.. he he..
> 
> trog



I don't know, I think it seems okay. Not like it was 3 months ago, but you can still turn a profit. Depending on how much your electricity costs are. This calculation is based on $0.13/kWh (USD) and 6 GTX 1070 pulling 1000W





Taken from here
https://www.coinwarz.com/calculators/vertcoin-mining-calculator


----------



## notb (Aug 24, 2017)

Halo3Addict said:


> I don't know, I think it seems okay. Not like it was 3 months ago, but you can still turn a profit. Depending on how much your electricity costs are. This calculation is based on $0.13/kWh (USD) and 6 GTX 1070 pulling 1000W
> 
> View attachment 91423
> 
> ...


The values here are a bit higher than what I see @nicehash, but whatever - still way over 1 year ROI for the rig, so IMO likely above these cards' lifetime...
It's good that people treat this as a hobby.


----------



## Nordic (Aug 24, 2017)

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ibm-retailers-blockchain-idUSKCN1B21B1?il=0
This is one of the most fascinating aspects of the technology coming from bitcoin. I hope we see more projects like this soon


----------



## cdawall (Aug 24, 2017)

Halo3Addict said:


> I don't know, I think it seems okay. Not like it was 3 months ago, but you can still turn a profit. Depending on how much your electricity costs are. This calculation is based on $0.13/kWh (USD) and 6 GTX 1070 pulling 1000W
> 
> View attachment 91423
> 
> ...



Why do you have them listed for 1000W? I Don't even come close to that with my 6 card 1070/1080Ti based box. Maybe 850w under full load.


----------



## notb (Aug 24, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Why do you have them listed for 1000W? I Don't even come close to that with my 6 card 1070/1080Ti based box. Maybe 850w under full load.


90% PSU efficiency, 50W sucked by other parts leaves 120W for each card. Possible for 1070, but you've said yourself that this needed a lot of tweaking...
BTW: aren't you using multiple Delta 253 CFM fans? Aren't they pulling 48W?

BTW: I wanted to check on the hashrate and found some articles from, as it would seem, very ancient times: mid June. E.g.:
http://www.legitreviews.com/geforce...-small-tweaks-great-hashrate-low-power_195451
"This improved hashrate means that we have the potential to make around $218 a month or $2,666 per year. That is an extra $411 a year and it means you’ll have your card paid off in about 51 days instead of 60 days! Buy two of these cards and place it in this system and you are looking at making over $5,000 a year in extra income!"
:-D



Nordic said:


> http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ibm-retailers-blockchain-idUSKCN1B21B1?il=0
> This is one of the most fascinating aspects of the technology coming from bitcoin. I hope we see more projects like this soon


1) Blockchain is not "coming from bitcoin"... Bitcoin was created as a first large-scale implementation. The idea of a blockchain comes from early 90s.
2) There already exist working solutions utilizing blockchains (or rather: distributed ledgers). This IBM project is nothing new nor special at this point. And yes, there will be more and more blockchains in use - especially when IoT becomes mainstream.


----------



## toilet pepper (Aug 24, 2017)

So I'm definitely pulling a trigger on buying another card. As I've said before, Im thinkin of buying another 1070 or 1080. One problem is decent 1070s are almost the same price as a 1080. I wouldnt be able to set up a rack yet because of critters and space. My current card takes up almost 3 slots meaning adding another card would starve the gpu of air and get hot. Any idea how bad the temps are for 2 3 slot gpus next to each other would get? Does getting a dual slot card help? Should I get a 1070 for sli and hopefully getting better framerates in games as well or get a 1080?


----------



## Halo3Addict (Aug 24, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Why do you have them listed for 1000W? I Don't even come close to that with my 6 card 1070/1080Ti based box. Maybe 850w under full load.



It was more of a 'worst case' scenario based on his statement.



trog100 said:


> running six card i estimate a bit less than 1000 watts..  on three a bit over half that..150 watts or a bit less per card.. all estimates i havnt tried a watt-meter yet..
> 
> the estimated money return per day looks abysmal.. he he..
> 
> trog



I don't think it will come close to 1000W either, but it's ultimately up to him.



toilet pepper said:


> So I'm definitely pulling a trigger on buying another card. As I've said before, Im thinkin of buying another 1070 or 1080. One problem is decent 1070s are almost the same price as a 1080. I wouldnt be able to set up a rack yet because of critters and space. My current card takes up almost 3 slots meaning adding another card would starve the gpu of air and get hot. Any idea how bad the temps are for 2 3 slot gpus next to each other would get? Does getting a dual slot card help? Should I get a 1070 for sli and hopefully getting better framerates in games as well or get a 1080?



Why don't you use PCIe risers? Or do you have it in an enclosed case currently.


----------



## toilet pepper (Aug 24, 2017)

Halo3Addict said:


> It was more of a 'worst case' scenario based on his statement.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## cdawall (Aug 24, 2017)

notb said:


> 90% PSU efficiency, 50W sucked by other parts leaves 120W for each card. Possible for 1070, but you've said yourself that this needed a lot of tweaking...
> BTW: aren't you using multiple Delta 253 CFM fans? Aren't they pulling 48W?
> 
> BTW: I wanted to check on the hashrate and found some articles from, as it would seem, very ancient times: mid June. E.g.:
> ...



Not since my rebuild. Just open air cases with one or two regular fans here and there to help flow in the garage. The cards don't require copious tweaking pretty generically I set TDP limit to 65-70% depending on card and +500-600mhz ram for the 1070's depending on card. Power consumption according to NV is like 105w? Which from what I can tell at the wall is about 110-120w depending again on card.

The 1080Ti's are the most curious you can basically half the TDP and they still run roughly the same in ethereum, dual mining they need a smidgen more juice, but not much


----------



## trog100 (Aug 24, 2017)

a slight tweak on the three 1070 cards is now showing just over $6 dollars per day.. up 500 mhz on the memory and 85% power..

do these figures seem okay..?? they vary depending on whats being mined.. the money estimates stay roughly the same..







trog

ps.. 6 x 1070s would give me about 12.5 dollars per day or 87.5 dollars per week or 4550 per year..

i dont see much profit here to be honest not allowing for hardware costs and power costs.. what am i doing wrong.. he he he..


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 25, 2017)

Its that freaky fookn laugh of yours you type in thats doing it. Hehehe.. its like a nervous tick, but manually typed in..so weird.


----------



## toilet pepper (Aug 25, 2017)

trog100 said:


> a slight tweak on the three 1070 cards is now showing just over $6 dollars per day.. up 500 mhz on the memory and 85% power..
> 
> do these figures seem okay..?? they vary depending on whats being mined.. the money estimates stay roughly the same..
> 
> ...




Try the Nicehash Legacy Miner AFAIK the miner you are using can't use dual mining. Dual mining might get you a few cents per card.


----------



## yotano211 (Aug 25, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Since some of us started earlier when ROI was still very good, a lot are paid off and just mining for the heck if it. I still make $1500 a month with the few boxes I have going, but had to put some form of effort into efficiency. Everything evolves over time and this has been no different. With the right equipment it is still heavily profitable.


Same here, the ones I have left are still going good, I'm at $3050 per month, its been at that rate for several weeks now. Every equipment I have are finally paid off.


----------



## cdawall (Aug 25, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Same here, the ones I have left are still going good, I'm at $3050 per month, its been at that rate for several weeks now. Every equipment I have are finally paid off.



I could get there if I had another location to mine from. I am about maxed out for what I am comfortable power wise in the house.


----------



## yotano211 (Aug 25, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I could get there if I had another location to mine from. I am about maxed out for what I am comfortable power wise in the house.


I'm maxed out at this apartment.


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 25, 2017)

> 1) Blockchain is not "coming from bitcoin"... Bitcoin was created as a first large-scale implementation. The idea of a blockchain comes from early 90s.



The way it's used in Bitcoin is pretty unique to say the least.  Actually, I'd like to see a source that it's ever been used previously at all.  I can't think of an instance.  Not sayin' there isn't one, just would like to learn.


----------



## trog100 (Aug 25, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I could get there if I had another location to mine from. I am about maxed out for what I am comfortable power wise in the house.





yotano211 said:


> Same here, the ones I have left are still going good, I'm at $3050 per month, its been at that rate for several weeks now. Every equipment I have are finally paid off.





yotano211 said:


> Same here, the ones I have left are still going good, I'm at $3050 per month, its been at that rate for several weeks now. Every equipment I have are finally paid off.



i recon we need a reality check here.. $3050 per month sounds very impressive.. but.. looking at the figures i am getting.. $360 per month for an initial hardware outlay cost of £3200 dosnt look so impressive..

for me to see £3050 (nearly 10 times what i am seeing) it would require a hardware cost of errr.. £32.000..

okay i know some folks started the game a while back with stuff they had laying around but to avoid a lot of disappointment i recon we need to rejoin the here and now and stop talking about "what was".. .. 

okay i have joined the mining game but my advice to others thinking of doing so is.. dont.. most of the good things you read about it no longer apply.. they are all in the past..

trog

ps.. i would also need to pull 7000 watts at the wall to do it..


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 25, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i recon we need a reality check here.. $3050 per month sounds very impressive.. but.. looking at the figures i am getting.. $360 per month for an initial hardware outlay cost of £3200 dosnt look so impressive..
> 
> for me to see £3050 (nearly 10 times what i am seeing) it would require a hardware cost of errr.. £32.000..
> 
> ...



Pretty much the untold truth of these things is by the time you hear about a "wave" you've already missed it.

Thus is this case.


----------



## r9 (Aug 25, 2017)

Another difficulty jump.
Looks like somebody got huge gpu delivery and they put it to a good use.


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 25, 2017)

r9 said:


> Another difficulty jump.
> Looks like somebody got huge gpu delivery and they put it to a good use.



In which crypto?

If bitcoin, a GPU delivery had nothing to do with it most assuredly.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Aug 25, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> In which crypto?
> 
> If bitcoin, a GPU delivery had nothing to do with it most assuredly.


Dag 140 on eth just kicked everyone's nose out of joint

Always seams to turn up when you just fixed something and got back to full steam.


----------



## yotano211 (Aug 25, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i recon we need a reality check here.. $3050 per month sounds very impressive.. but.. looking at the figures i am getting.. $360 per month for an initial hardware outlay cost of £3200 dosnt look so impressive..
> 
> for me to see £3050 (nearly 10 times what i am seeing) it would require a hardware cost of errr.. £32.000..
> 
> ...


I was talking about USD $ and not British pound £


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 25, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Dag 140 on eth just kicked everyone's nose out of joint
> 
> Always seams to turn up when you just fixed something and got back to full steam.



That's the code in crypto trying to regulate the market despite human nature.  Expected.


----------



## r9 (Aug 25, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> In which crypto?
> 
> If bitcoin, a GPU delivery had nothing to do with it most assuredly.


ETH.


----------



## cdawall (Aug 25, 2017)

I'm still at 500mh/s and 5000sol/s on my setup haven't really seen any profitability changes with DAG140


----------



## trog100 (Aug 25, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> I was talking about USD $ and not British pound £



i was using both but my point is still made.. if i converted UK pounds into US dollars the current profitability factor would look even more negative.. 

i do seem to be taking over from the nay-sayer notb here.. he he..

the real problem is most of the crypto stuff written on the net is out of date.. it paints a false picture.. time moves on quickly in crypto land.. this thread is a good example of just how quickly.. 

trog


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 26, 2017)

Trog, is your head ready to explode yet since you arent neutering your cards? 

Maybe they now know they are alive!


----------



## Halo3Addict (Aug 26, 2017)

I was able to hit around 20MH/s dual mining GTX 1060 6GB. Not sure the effects dual mining has on hash rates






I have 4 other GTX 1060s 6GB and will probably buy another when I find a decent one to fill out my MB. At these rates it's around $250/month profit, including electricity costs. The whole rig cost a little under $2k

I'm having fun on a new project


----------



## cdawall (Aug 26, 2017)

I'm still at 22mh/s on mine dual mining


----------



## trog100 (Aug 26, 2017)

EarthDog said:


> Trog, is your head ready to explode yet since you arent neutering your cards?
> 
> Maybe they now know they are alive!



i am doing exactly the same.. not exactly neutering the cards but fine tuning to generate no more heat than they have to.. 

i can run nicehash on my gaming rig.. the two 980 TI cards generate about $3.2 dollars per day.. the top card gets a bit toasty though and they use too much leccy for what they generate.. he he

even well spaced out in an open air frame heat transfers  from one card to another.. each card in the row runs a little hotter than the one next to it as you move along the row..

i am thinking that 60 C with the fans at %50 is an ideal temp to aim at for 24.7 running.. purely a guess though..

i only have three cards running at the moment.. they are pulling 400 watts from the wall.. powering up the other three will make it about 750 watts from the wall.. roughly 115 watts per card..

from what i see so far this should generate about $12 dollars per day.. i have space for 8 cards in the rig.. i am seeing $2 dollars per day from each card..

whether or not its worth spending another £800 quid to fill the rig up i aint made my mind up yet.. part of me says it is part of me says it aint.. 

at new UK hardware prices it would take a £4000 outlay to generate $16 dollars per day.. or $5840 per year.. i am not exactly wowed.. he he..

forgive my use of UK pounds and US dollars for those that dont know a pound is worth about 1.25 US dollars.. i tend to think in pounds and in dollars just add or take off a bit in my head.. i recon most UK folks do..

i will post a pic of my rig later..

trog


----------



## notb (Aug 26, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i recon we need a reality check here.. $3050 per month sounds very impressive.. but.. looking at the figures i am getting.. $360 per month for an initial hardware outlay cost of £3200 dosnt look so impressive..


That's simply because some people here can't calculate properly. They are looking at a large time window and they're seeing these impressive returns. Simple fact is: today you're earning much less than you would 2 months ago. Simple as that. And it's very likely to go down even further.


cdawall said:


> I'm still at 500mh/s and 5000sol/s on my setup haven't really seen any profitability changes with DAG140


That's because you're not looking at the figure you should. DAG will affect your hashrate, but difficulty is something different - it measures how much ETH you're getting for your hashrate. Look at this: block time vs difficulty.
https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/confirmationtime-difficulty-eth.html
Every 20 days there is a sudden jump in block time. As a result the overall difficulty is increasing.
Yes, your hashrate is the same, but it's resulting in 2.4 times less ETH than it did on 26th of June.


----------



## trog100 (Aug 26, 2017)

nicehash makes it obvious with its estimated dollars (money tokens) per day figure.. without that i can see why some folks aint seeing the true picture..

and as notb quite rightly says its likely to get worse..

but apart from buying silver coin there is f-ck all else i would chuck spare cash at.. everything is over valued in a bubble and just waiting to pop.. when it pops the rush for the "get out" door will be quite spectacular.. 

trog


----------



## notb (Aug 26, 2017)

trog100 said:


> nicehash makes it obvious with its estimated dollars (money tokens) per day figure.. without that i can see why some folks aint seeing the true picture..


nicehash is still a company that wants to draw you to mining, not an objective information source...
At some point I considered joining the mining "hobby", so I sampled nicehash's calculator results for a while. Of course I also wanted to check how these numbers are calculated. It turned out that e.g. ROI (the value that people look at the most) is calculated using a 30-day average, so even if you replace the GPU price by something more realistic, you're getting a rubbish estimation. I mentioned it here in one of the posts.
The information how ROI is calculated is not put anywhere on the site - you have to go through the source.

Also notice how currently they are showing you just the past 30 days on the chart - even though they call it "All" and the site is old enough to have a much longer history. If they'd show 3 months, it would be obvious how much the profitability dropped.


----------



## trog100 (Aug 26, 2017)

i have not looked at ROI notb i can figure that out for myself.. lets just say its a f-cking long time.. 

but i have hit another problem..

i am using an Asus Z270 prime A motherboard one recommended for mining..

i have looked at several google vids.. they all say to enable 4G decoding in the bios and show it being done.. no problem..

the snag is even with the latest bios loaded i am not seeing the f-cking 4G enable/disable option.. it is just not f-cking there.. he he

its definitely the latest bios about a month old..

all six cards show up in windows but two are not working.. pretty much as it should be without the 4G decoding enabled..

anyone have any ideas..

trog

ps.. problem solved.. the 4G option aint where the internet says it is.. he he.. on my motherboard with the latest bios Asus as decided to move it to the "BOOT" section.. probably a better place for it but not when all available information says it somewhere f-cking else..


----------



## 111frodon (Aug 26, 2017)

Update for everyone: check your rigs to be sure to include cryptonight in your nicehash benchmark. All my three rigs running r9 290/x just switched from dual mining ethereum/decred to cryptonight, for an increase of around 10% production wise.

My observations so far: temps are lower, the computer lags a lot more when surfing for example and power consumption is way lower.

Suddently monero seems attractive!

Edit: my 290x gets 800 H/s, the 7970 is good for 465 H.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Aug 26, 2017)

111frodon said:


> Update for everyone: check your rigs to be sure to include cryptonight in your nicehash benchmark. All my three rigs running r9 290/x just switched from dual mining ethereum/decred to cryptonight, for an increase of around 10% production wise.
> 
> My observations so far: temps are lower, the computer lags a lot more when surfing for example and power consumption is way lower.
> 
> ...


Are you saying crypto night now runs on your gpus too?


----------



## 111frodon (Aug 26, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Are you saying crypto night now runs on your gpus too?



I have a r9 290, r9 290x, 7970 and rx 480 all running cryptonight at the moment. They all stopped ethereum to switch to crypto. God bless nicehash! That's why i said to benchmark all crypto-currency when installing nicehash so it can switch whenever it is profitable.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Aug 26, 2017)

111frodon said:


> I have a r9 290, r9 290x, 7970 and rx 480 all running cryptonight at the moment. They all stopped ethereum to switch to crypto. God bless nicehash! That's why i said to benchmark all crypto-currency when installing nicehash so it can switch whenever it is profitable.


Yes i do bench them all but cryptonight only shows for cpu on the legacy 1.8 version when I ran them, what version are you running.
Ill look into it though 

Running fine on my all amd rig but not in the list on my Nvidia rigs ,might just be my setup.

But the amd rig perked a fair bit thanks.

F#@@£n mining , my main rig just spat out its samy 840 evo 500Gb , isn't seen by the bios anymore.
This is a few things on the trot now , i cant even remember where i bought it from never mind where the receipt is.


----------



## 111frodon (Aug 26, 2017)

I'm using 1.7.5.13 I think and it shows on all gpu: one sgminer and one claymore. The claymore does better on Hawaii and Tahiti uses the sgminer one. And the difference in production is now around 20% up!

Don't forget the huge drop in power consumption!


----------



## Divide Overflow (Aug 26, 2017)

111frodon said:


> I'm using 1.7.5.13 I think and it shows on all gpu: one sgminer and one claymore. The claymore does better on Hawaii and Tahiti uses the sgminer one. And the difference in production is now around 20% up!
> 
> Don't forget the huge drop in power consumption!


CryptoNight should be for your CPU only.  Are you sure the huge drop in power consumption isn't because your GPU has stopping mining?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Aug 26, 2017)

Divide Overflow said:


> CryptoNight should be for your CPU only.  Are you sure the huge drop in power consumption isn't because your GPU has stopping mining?


He's right on that but oddly i can only get it to show on one miner ,my amd one , with a copy of 1.7.53 on another 3 rig the algos don't show up for the gpus in their options.


----------



## 111frodon (Aug 26, 2017)

Divide Overflow said:


> CryptoNight should be for your CPU only.  Are you sure the huge drop in power consumption isn't because your GPU has stopping mining?



I'm positive that the gpus are mining and use 50-60 watts less each.

Maybe just the amd gpus can do it?


----------



## Divide Overflow (Aug 26, 2017)

111frodon said:


> I'm positive that the gpus are mining and use 50-60 watts less each.
> 
> Maybe just the amd gpus can do it?


I have a 290x and never saw CryptoKnight appear as an option for it, only on the CPU.


----------



## 111frodon (Aug 26, 2017)

Divide Overflow said:


> I have a 290x and never saw CryptoKnight appear as an option for it, only on the CPU.



I don't know what to say. I'm using 15.12 for drivers, and 1.7.5.13 for nicehash. Did you go into the settings to be sure all currency are enabled?


----------



## notb (Aug 26, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> F#@@£n mining , my main rig just spat out its samy 840 evo 500Gb , isn't seen by the bios anymore.
> This is a few things on the trot now , i cant even remember where i bought it from never mind where the receipt is.


Why would you use such an expensive SSD for mining rig? Mining PCs are known to fail.
If I was mining, I'd use and old HDD or an SD card...



theoneandonlymrk said:


> Are you saying crypto night now runs on your gpus too?


It has always ran on GPUs - it's just that the algo is suitable for both CPU and GPU. And since profitability on GPUs was so poor, no one cared.
It all changed just a moment ago:
https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/size-price-xmr.html#1y
I don't know the reason, but the result is interesting. It this Cryptonight profitability stays, a Ryzen 1700 will make more than 1050Ti. Of course GPU is still a better idea for large farms, but mining on one's single PC suddenly got a significant boost.

Edit:
A large Korean crypto exchange started accepting Monero - that's why the price went up.
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/monero-price-just-pierced-100-heres-whats-fueling-record-rally/


----------



## r9 (Aug 26, 2017)

notb said:


> Why would you use such an expensive SSD for mining rig? Mining PCs are known to fail.
> If I was mining, I'd use and old HDD or an SD card...
> 
> 
> ...


I know you are mining.
Just waiting for you to come out of the closet.


----------



## notb (Aug 26, 2017)

r9 said:


> I know you are mining.
> Just waiting for you to come out of the closet.


Of course I'm mining. I mentioned that in another thread (6th August):


notb said:


> And BTW: I've just started mining! :-D



And just look at my monstrous mining farm: GTX 1050 and i5-7500. GPU ran for maybe 100h. CPU for a day or so.
I'm not doing this for profit. Well... at least not a profit from mining itself.


----------



## Divide Overflow (Aug 26, 2017)

111frodon said:


> I don't know what to say. I'm using 15.12 for drivers, and 1.7.5.13 for nicehash. Did you go into the settings to be sure all currency are enabled?


Sure enough, they are listed there even in 1.8.1.1 but had been deselected for being so inefficient.  Enabling them has me running CryptoNight too.  Thanks for the head's up!


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Aug 26, 2017)

notb said:


> Of course I'm mining. I mentioned that in another thread (6th August):
> 
> 
> And just look at my monstrous mining farm: GTX 1050 and i5-7500. GPU ran for maybe 100h. CPU for a day or so.
> I'm not doing this for profit. Well... at least not a profit from mining itself.


That was my main rig like I said it mines like it folded with an ssd so when it games its nice to use. 
Your also using a normal rig dude , mines at least go the cooling for it not that yours hasn't.


----------



## 111frodon (Aug 26, 2017)

Divide Overflow said:


> Sure enough, they are listed there even in 1.8.1.1 but had been deselected for being so inefficient.  Enabling them has me running CryptoNight too.  Thanks for the head's up!



That's why I'm always benching them all on precise mode. Takes a LONG time, but after that you're all set!


----------



## hat (Aug 26, 2017)

Yeah, I guess benchmarking in precise mode has its benefits. The more accurate those benchmarks are, the more accurate Nicehash will be when determining which algorithm to run for the best profitability. That's how it chooses what to run, based on your benchmark scores.

It looks like the newest version of Nicehash now supports dual mining. I'm currently running both DaggerHashimoto and Decred. It's a nice little bump in the earnings.


----------



## 111frodon (Aug 26, 2017)

hat said:


> Yeah, I guess benchmarking in precise mode has its benefits. The more accurate those benchmarks are, the more accurate Nicehash will be when determining which algorithm to run for the best profitability. That's how it chooses what to run, based on your benchmark scores.
> 
> It looks like the newest version of Nicehash now supports dual mining. I'm currently running both DaggerHashimoto and Decred. It's a nice little bump in the earnings.



At the moment you should be mining cryptonight. Are you sure they are enabled in the settings tabs? My rigs dumped dual dagger/decred for crypto a few hours ago...


----------



## hat (Aug 26, 2017)

I run cryptonight on my CPU... but it doesn't produce much. I don't even see cryptonight in the list under my GTX1070s.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Aug 26, 2017)

I run not own five rigs all running usb copies of tje same nicehash client as it's what i got working the first time yet it only shows for me in my amd rigs not nvidia on nicehash 1.7.53 im fixing my pc while trying to figure why that is but its very odd.

Im going to try copying from the working rig then see what differs.


----------



## 111frodon (Aug 26, 2017)

hat said:


> I run cryptonight on my CPU... but it doesn't produce much. I don't even see cryptonight in the list under my GTX1070s.


I think it doesn't work on nvidia cards


----------



## hat (Aug 27, 2017)

Nicehash seems to be running Equihash only now. Currently sitting around 4.20-5.50/day. Strange spikes happening... I'll look it it and see around 5, then 4.28, then 5.50...


----------



## 111frodon (Aug 27, 2017)

Well I'm back dual mining on the Hawaii cards and zcash for the Tahiti one. It came and went pretty quick...


----------



## Divide Overflow (Aug 27, 2017)

Lots of volatility right now, although if I see my machines switch to Whopper Coin, I'm out!


----------



## hat (Aug 27, 2017)

If it sticks around $5/day I'd be happy. Of course, I'd be happier with more...

I was disappointed to not be making $10/day like it was, but I came to accept $4/day. Hopefully we stay on the upswing...


----------



## toilet pepper (Aug 27, 2017)

My undervolted ryzen 5 1600 is netting me a dollar a day now or .23mBTC using only 6 threads. More than 6 threads and the profits are lower. Not bad for the perf/price/profit ratio.


----------



## LightningJR (Aug 27, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I could get there if I had another location to mine from. I am about maxed out for what I am comfortable power wise in the house.





yotano211 said:


> I'm maxed out at this apartment.



I am confused, is your power draw high enough for you to worry about blowing breakers or am I missing something?

If you want another location to mine from where I live $perKW is quite low at around 9-10c if I remember correctly.


----------



## cdawall (Aug 27, 2017)

LightningJR said:


> I am confused, is your power draw high enough for you to worry about blowing breakers or am I missing something?
> 
> If you want another location to mine from where I live $perKW is quite low at around 9-10c if I remember correctly.



20a breaker per circuit I don't like running much over 12a just in case something else on that circuit pulls power.


----------



## LightningJR (Aug 27, 2017)

cdawall said:


> 20a breaker per circuit I don't like running much over 12a just in case something else on that circuit pulls power.


Interesting, most circuits here in Canada are 15A, 20A breakers are used for kitchen circuits with a T socket. The fridge receptacle should be on it's own circuit so you could move the fridge to another plug and use it's plug even closer to max Amps.  The fridge circuit is over engineered a single circuit for a fridge is not necessary.


----------



## cdawall (Aug 27, 2017)

LightningJR said:


> Interesting, most circuits here in Canada are 15A, 20A breakers are used for kitchen circuits with a T socket. The fridge receptacle should be on it's own circuit so you could move the fridge to another plug and use it's plug even closer to max Amps.  The fridge circuit is over engineered a single circuit for a fridge is not necessary.



My stuff just has to share. Basically I am one rig per. I don't want to run more cords lol


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 27, 2017)

Meh, be a man like I was and just run a few 240V 15A.  No sharing.

Don't have the wire live while messing with the circuit box though, especially if the outlet cover is metal.  Don't ask how I know this, it hurt.


----------



## yotano211 (Aug 27, 2017)

LightningJR said:


> I am confused, is your power draw high enough for you to worry about blowing breakers or am I missing something?
> 
> If you want another location to mine from where I live $perKW is quite low at around 9-10c if I remember correctly.


Yes I already have tripped breakers lots of times at this apartment. It has a mix of 20amp and 40amp breakers. I had 8 mining rigs at my friends house in California but I took those out since I dont like paying 30cent p/kw. I pay around .08.

My friend put in 4 30amp new breakers into his house's breaker box but its the cost of power that hit me hard.


----------



## trog100 (Sep 2, 2017)

Nicehash seems to be having problems.. i aint sure exactly what as of yet.. he he.. 

trog


----------



## cdawall (Sep 4, 2017)

trog100 said:


> Nicehash seems to be having problems.. i aint sure exactly what as of yet.. he he..
> 
> trog



I haven't seen an issue on my rigs...?


----------



## trog100 (Sep 4, 2017)

i think it was just stuff down for maintenance.. it all went back to normal after a couple of hours.. i just happened to hit the software update button at the wrong time..

trog


----------



## 111frodon (Sep 5, 2017)

To everyone that didn't already knew, if you're using any kind of R9 290/x, use the 1100 core/1125 mem frequency combination. That  way i managed to get 30 stable MH/s on four different cards. For more hash, it seems i'd have to mess with memory straps. I won't go there.


----------



## dorsetknob (Sep 5, 2017)

*China bans crypto-currency fundraising schemes*
*Bitcoin, Ethereum values dip after 'Initial Coin Offerings' ruled dangerously disruptive*

Digital currencies Bitcoin and Ethereum have slipped after the Chinese government banned Initial Coin Offerings, a tool that sees equities offerings bid in cryptocurrencies instead of fiat currencies, a share funding mechanism.

The Peoples' Bank of China's joint announcement with six other agencies doesn't translate smoothly, but the gist is clear: token-based Initial Coin Offerings (ICOs) that see rights to cryptocurrency issued in return for scrip are regarded as a threat to financial order and stability.

The bank's move comes on the heels of an August 30 report (in Chinese here) by the National Internet Finance Association of China (NIFA), which Technode explains described ICOs as “disrupting the socioeconomic order and creating a greater risk”.

story here

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/05/china_bans_cryptocurrency_ico_raisings/


----------



## EarthDog (Sep 5, 2017)

CHINA #1!!!!!!!!


----------



## trog100 (Sep 5, 2017)

http://www.altcointoday.com/reasons-behind-bitcoins-20-price-crash/

it all seems to have bottomed out now..

https://coinranking.com/

trog


----------



## cdawall (Sep 8, 2017)

https://community.coinbase.com/t/tr...inbase-and-did-not-receive-the-funds/33476/55

Be a bit careful with coinbase today it appears the server is having issues. I have one transaction that disappeared and shows being moved to a different address right after it was sent to mine. No email confirmation nothing. I assume this is just a coinbase wallet for their inner transactions, but sketchy nonetheless.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 8, 2017)

cdawall said:


> https://community.coinbase.com/t/tr...inbase-and-did-not-receive-the-funds/33476/55
> 
> Be a bit careful with coinbase today it appears the server is having issues. I have one transaction that disappeared and shows being moved to a different address right after it was sent to mine. No email confirmation nothing. I assume this is just a coinbase wallet for their inner transactions, but sketchy nonetheless.


Ty.
Early on in the thread you mentioned you have used active Dp cables on your rig i assumed to keep Amd cards at 100% since I have that issue, i used to run two rigs side by side on one monitor.
I got two Dp active adapters to move a rig elsewhere but its not working as planned.
Do you know of a particular version or brand thats best to use.


----------



## Divide Overflow (Sep 8, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Be a bit careful with coinbase today it appears the server is having issues. I have one transaction that disappeared and shows being moved to a different address right after it was sent to mine. No email confirmation nothing. I assume this is just a coinbase wallet for their inner transactions, but sketchy nonetheless.


I had a payment sent early this morning to my coinbase account which has failed to show up so far.

UPDATE:  Deposit transaction completed and now shows up in my account.


----------



## cdawall (Sep 8, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Ty.
> Early on in the thread you mentioned you have used active Dp cables on your rig i assumed to keep Amd cards at 100% since I have that issue, i used to run two rigs side by side on one monitor.
> I got two Dp active adapters to move a rig elsewhere but its not working as planned.
> Do you know of a particular version or brand thats best to use.



They are powercolor ones from the release of the 7950. I ordered them when I bought my cards to run eyefinity many moons ago...I don't think they even make the part number anymore.



Divide Overflow said:


> I had a payment sent early this morning to my coinbase account which has failed to show up so far.



I sent in a ticket, but it appears to be a system wide issue.


----------



## cdawall (Sep 8, 2017)

And in other news coinbase seems alive again. Missing transaction just pushed through, I'm going to give it a bit before I transfer any of my other wallet funds into it though


----------



## hat (Sep 9, 2017)

So far I've got $230 USD from Coinbase. Not that I really wanted to, but I kinda had to. This is definitely helping us out financially, even though the market is not all that it once was. I'm considering getting a halfways decent power supply for my other computer and seeing if I can get a third card mining. Maybe I'll get a 1060 for my main rig and run a 1060 and a 1070 and then move a 1070 over to the other rig... or would that be unfavorable? Best to keep the same model card in one rig?


----------



## silkstone (Sep 10, 2017)

hat said:


> So far I've got $230 USD from Coinbase. Not that I really wanted to, but I kinda had to. This is definitely helping us out financially, even though the market is not all that it once was. I'm considering getting a halfways decent power supply for my other computer and seeing if I can get a third card mining. Maybe I'll get a 1060 for my main rig and run a 1060 and a 1070 and then move a 1070 over to the other rig... or would that be unfavorable? Best to keep the same model card in one rig?



ROI on a 1060 right now is pretty low. Personally, I'd aim for a 1070, unless you have spare room in an existing rig. A single card in a single rig is going to do little more than break even at this point.

Edit - I see that your current Mainboard will support more cards, if you get a 1060, put it in with the others. It draws about 150 W, so will make an okay profit (if your PSU can support it)


----------



## trog100 (Sep 10, 2017)

a single 1060 draws closer to 100 watts (a bit less if set right.. my 1070s pull about 120 watts each..

trog


----------



## r9 (Sep 10, 2017)

I just saw an ad on craigslist for 16 x  r9 290 at $140 each.
Probable even less than that if you barging and get enough of them.
They have same hash rate as gtx 1070 with 60% higher power consumption.
Still plenty profitable.
I didn't plan on expanding, but I'm tempted.
*Correction they were r9 280x @ 25MHs I believe.


----------



## cdawall (Sep 12, 2017)

r9 said:


> I just saw an ad on craigslist for 16 x  r9 290 at $140 each.
> Probable even less than that if you barging and get enough of them.
> They have same hash rate as gtx 1070 with 60% higher power consumption.
> Still plenty profitable.
> ...



So barely higher than a 1060


----------



## trog100 (Sep 13, 2017)

whoops..

https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/04/cryptocurrencies-have-crashed-20-in-two-days/

trog


----------



## silkstone (Sep 13, 2017)

trog100 said:


> whoops..
> 
> https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/04/cryptocurrencies-have-crashed-20-in-two-days/
> 
> trog



It's not a big deal if you plan is to hold. It's a missed opportunity to buy more, but I don't think anyone here is a trader, I certainly don't have the time or funds to monitor the market

In the LT stock markets always rise. They always fall too. There are dips and peaks, but you still get the general trend. It's why Index funds are one of the best investments.

Time will tell if it becomes the case with the crypto market, but I will continue to mine so long as the current value does not dip below the cost of electricity. At that point, it's better to buy direct.


----------



## hat (Sep 14, 2017)

Yeah... BTC may have lost what, like $900... but it'll go back up, at which point the BTC we already have now will be worth more again. I've seen anywhere from $3-$5 per day from my mining since I actually got started, with $4 being the reward most of the time. The whole thing is a roller coaster ride. There are lows but there are also highs.


----------



## trog100 (Sep 14, 2017)

btc is currently down to $3500-ish from its record high of $4900-ish just over a week back.. 

its also (along with all other cryptos) still rapidly heading down.. so far its lost about $1400 hundred dollars.. 

trog


----------



## hat (Sep 14, 2017)

Like I said, roller coaster. But if you hold the BTC you're earning right now, it'll be worth more when it comes back up. A dollar today becomes two dollars tomorrow.


----------



## trog100 (Sep 15, 2017)

down to just over $3000 dollars and still falling.. its beginning to look like a crypto disaster story to me.. he he..

trog


----------



## ppn (Sep 15, 2017)

Price gauging. Oh no they are overcharging for water(bitcoin) when there is no water(bitcoin) around and so on, and to me I'd rather actually the prices be higher because thats what is going to do is gonna draw peoples attention in and they are going to try and ship more water(bitcoin by forking) and is going to drive the prices back down. A spike in prices is the markets way of saying there is a hudge demand and people are going to rush in and pile it and drive the prices back down.

A great quote from Stefan today, with a twist. We don't want to be hypocritical after all.


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 15, 2017)

ppn said:


> Price gauging. Oh no they are overcharging for water(bitcoin) when there is no water(bitcoin) around and so on, and to me I'd rather actually the prices be higher because thats what is going to do is gonna draw peoples attention in and they are going to try and ship more water(bitcoin by forking) and is going to drive the prices back down. A spike in prices is the markets way of saying there is a hudge demand and people are going to rush in and pile it and drive the prices back down.
> 
> A great quote from Stefan today, with a twist. We don't want to be hypocritical after all.



The thing about bitcoin is the supply is regulated.  There isn't "more bitcoin per second" no matter how many miners mine.


----------



## hat (Sep 15, 2017)

Other currencies are tanking too. I'm currently mining at $2.58/day :/


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 15, 2017)

hat said:


> Other currencies are tanking too. I'm currently mining at $2.58/day :/



All crypto is more or less linked to bitcoin at present.


----------



## trog100 (Sep 15, 2017)

bitcoin may bottom out at $3000.. if it dosnt it could go a lot lower..

trog


----------



## r9 (Sep 15, 2017)

I bought couple ETH at $230.
I thought that is as low as it will go, clearly I was wrong.


----------



## P4-630 (Sep 15, 2017)

The dream might be over soon....


----------



## trog100 (Sep 15, 2017)

all very neat and looks like it was done to plan.. bitcoin bottomed at exactly $3000 and etherium  at exactly $200.. he he

i recon it will top at bitcoin $4000 and then go sideways for a while.. i dont recon the dream is over yet.. 

trog


----------



## toilet pepper (Sep 15, 2017)

With the equifax leak which is a big deal with the whole credit system. I think the future of crypto is bright.


----------



## trog100 (Sep 15, 2017)

the price of bitcoin governed it all.. in neat 200 dollar increments.. looking at a 24 hour chart it was all very obvious.. people just watching and waiting for the bottom ready to buy back in..

its now paused at 3600 for a while on its way back up.. such downward moves drive out the weaker players to the profit of the stronger ones..

trog


----------



## toilet pepper (Sep 16, 2017)

The main reason crypto is failing because most people trade it or compare it to fiat currency. I do understand that in order to prevent this a wide adoption of crypto must be present. The adoption rate is slow and unless big companies accept it, volatility would still be present.


----------



## cdawall (Sep 25, 2017)

toilet pepper said:


> The main reason crypto is failing because most people trade it or compare it to fiat currency. I do understand that in order to prevent this a wide adoption of crypto must be present. The adoption rate is slow and unless big companies accept it, volatility would still be present.



Big companies are starting to accept it


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 26, 2017)

toilet pepper said:


> The main reason crypto is failing



Wait, when did it start failing? lol, we're still up 10x it's value from last year, and it was doing fine then too.


----------



## toilet pepper (Sep 26, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Wait, when did it start failing? lol, we're still up 10x it's value from last year, and it was doing fine then too.



By "failing" I meant the sudden BTC to USD hiccup this month. 



cdawall said:


> Big companies are starting to accept it



I know but it should happen faster and in an international way. AFAIK only first world country companies are pushing in accepting BTC as a viable currency. (legally.. I don't want to touch that topic) IMO BTC is better used in countries where the local currency is over-inflated just to have a feeling of a fresh start.


----------



## cdawall (Sep 26, 2017)

toilet pepper said:


> By "failing" I meant the sudden BTC to USD hiccup this month.



There is a hiccup every couple of months. This one was based off of China closing the exchanges because they are commies.


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 26, 2017)

cdawall said:


> There is a hiccup every couple of months. This one was based off of China closing the exchanges because they are commies.



As a counterargument, it's impact will probably be strong because China was a significant market, in large part because the people could get economic freedom in bitcoin from their commie masters.


----------



## cdawall (Sep 26, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> As a counterargument, it's impact will probably be strong because China was a significant market, in large part because the people could get economic freedom in bitcoin from their commie masters.



The question is if it is long lasting. I don't think so.

On another note anyone played with the mining cards? I picked a visiontek powercolor 470 up and it has a newer revision Samsung memory than I am used to playing with.







This is after bios mod only got 2000mhz out of the "c" revision ram clock wise which is a lot lower than I am used to all of my other cards using these timings "b" revision memory got 2250-2275.


----------



## Super XP (Oct 8, 2017)

As long as your power usage is down, and you are at least making a profit per day.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 8, 2017)

cdawall said:


> The question is if it is long lasting. I don't think so.
> 
> On another note anyone played with the mining cards? I picked a visiontek powercolor 470 up and it has a newer revision Samsung memory than I am used to playing with.
> 
> ...


Might be worth trying a few bios out , i cant suggest any you have not already mentioned since my cards are all saphire but my last two bought, saphire pulses took at least 6 different bioses before I found making my own did the job, with the right polaris bios editor off github its now easy to do your own bios ,i still ended up on the saphire nitro + one but had to actually edit the 1750-2000 myself, obviously different chips mate but im just saying it could be worth trying a few more but some like the saphire nitro one said they were modded but had only been modded on one memory type (i have hynix in two tut) so in my case it wasn't often the hynix so i got sameish resluts as stock bios , only comparing in polaris bios editor did i notice and hence found the best bios for my vrms re compatibility then modded it.
Id have to re look at the biosi to give more acurate info but let me know if it would help , i would on auto but for different memory types limit the use.


----------



## cdawall (Oct 8, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Might be worth trying a few bios out , i cant suggest any you have not already mentioned since my cards are all saphire but my last two bought, saphire pulses took at least 6 different bioses before I found making my own did the job, with the right polaris bios editor off github its now easy to do your own bios ,i still ended up on the saphire nitro + one but had to actually edit the 1750-2000 myself, obviously different chips mate but im just saying it could be worth trying a few more but some like the saphire nitro one said they were modded but had only been modded on one memory type (i have hynix in two tut) so in my case it wasn't often the hynix so i got sameish resluts as stock bios , only comparing in polaris bios editor did i notice and hence found the best bios for my vrms re compatibility then modded it.
> Id have to re look at the biosi to give more acurate info but let me know if it would help , i would on auto but for different memory types limit the use.



I was already modding them myself just using the straps from those cards. It seems I am pretty close to maxing them out anyway. I just did a sapphire special edition 580 bios and it took some time, but got it up to 31.5mh/s that was a little too much for some cards ram and settled it back around 31


----------



## hat (Oct 18, 2017)

Anyone else prefer the "legacy" nicehash miner to the latest version? To me, it seems more detailed, more configurable and easier to use.


----------



## trog100 (Oct 18, 2017)

i have never tried it but did have problems with the latest update on the beta one.. it brings the cpu into play hogs it 100% not leaving enough left over to run the rest of the system.. system and the output from the cards drops right off..

i had to roll back to the earlier version which dosnt bring the cpu into play and try and mine with it..

trog


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 18, 2017)

hat said:


> Anyone else prefer the "legacy" nicehash miner to the latest version? To me, it seems more detailed, more configurable and easier to use.


For me it's not that the latest is bad but it's more automated ,i would not be sure it benches on precision level for example and that's the best way to bench.


----------



## hat (Oct 18, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i have never tried it but did have problems with the latest update on the beta one.. it brings the cpu into play hogs it 100% not leaving enough left over to run the rest of the system.. system and the output from the cards drops right off..
> 
> i had to roll back to the earlier version which dosnt bring the cpu into play and try and mine with it..
> 
> trog


That wasn't an issue for me. My CPU miner always left 1 core alone, and if I wanted to I could disable it entirely. The older miner is more configurable though...


----------



## trog100 (Oct 19, 2017)

hat said:


> That wasn't an issue for me. My CPU miner always left 1 core alone, and if I wanted to I could disable it entirely. The older miner is more configurable though...



 how do you stop  the cpu from mining on the new miner.. .. i dont see anyway to do this.. 

trog


----------



## hat (Oct 19, 2017)

In the bottom left there is a button that says hardware details or something like that... You can access this menu only when the miner is not running. In there you can switch the CPU miner off.


----------



## trog100 (Oct 20, 2017)

hat said:


> In the bottom left there is a button that says hardware details or something like that... You can access this menu only when the miner is not running. In there you can switch the CPU miner off.




thanks for that.. i didnt know those options were there.. i had looked in there often enough but the minor must have been running.. as you say they dont show up when it is.. 

trog


----------



## hat (Oct 21, 2017)

Speaking of CPU mining... does anyone here do it? Has anyone noticed that the rewards from CPU mining seem to be stable when GPU mining seems to fluctuate wildly?


----------



## Divide Overflow (Oct 21, 2017)

I was explaining crypto mining to a friend and he wanted to know if he could make any profit from his 290x system.  I plugged in the system in Nicehash's profitability calculator and was amused with the result.  I know prices have spiked recently, but I didn't know it had gotten this profitable overnight!


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 21, 2017)

Divide Overflow said:


> I was explaining crypto mining to a friend and he wanted to know if he could make any profit from his 290x system.  I plugged in the system in Nicehash's profitability calculator and was amused with the result.  I know prices have spiked recently, but I didn't know it had gotten this profitable overnight!
> 
> View attachment 93307


It could be a good earner that, im on similar 2+ million (could be trillions)??a day but i guess someone somewhere is glued to an interface trying to fix it.


----------



## trog100 (Oct 21, 2017)

the .001653 BTC per week is  right.. a bit less than 7 dollars per week.. 

its just the dollar figures that are tad out.. he he

trog


----------



## trog100 (Oct 21, 2017)

hat said:


> Speaking of CPU mining... does anyone here do it? Has anyone noticed that the rewards from CPU mining seem to be stable when GPU mining seems to fluctuate wildly?



i could do it on my desktop 7700K rig but i dont think it would cover the power costs.. 

trog


----------



## hat (Oct 21, 2017)

I noticed that too. I would be a billionaire if that were true...

@trog100 efficiency would be a key factor. Depends on how much you would make per day, then consider if it's even worth it. Looks like a 4GHz 1700x gets about a dollar per day though... you would need a whole lot of CPU to get anywhere.


----------



## trog100 (Oct 22, 2017)

hat said:


> I noticed that too. I would be a billionaire if that were true...
> 
> @trog100 efficiency would be a key factor. Depends on how much you would make per day, then consider if it's even worth it. Looks like a 4GHz 1700x gets about a dollar per day though... you would need a whole lot of CPU to get anywhere.



mine only uses about 40 % to 50 % cpu power with my 7700K.. i dont think it would produce a dollar a day.. if it did i might leave it running along with my two cards.. 

trog


----------



## silkstone (Oct 22, 2017)

hat said:


> Speaking of CPU mining... does anyone here do it? Has anyone noticed that the rewards from CPU mining seem to be stable when GPU mining seems to fluctuate wildly?



I get about $30-$40 a month from CPU mining. though it is set up on 2 computers and to cloud compute services.


----------



## hat (Oct 22, 2017)

trog100 said:


> mine only uses about 40 % to 50 % cpu power with my 7700K.. i dont think it would produce a dollar a day.. if it did i might leave it running along with my two cards..
> 
> trog


This is why I like the "legacy" Nicehash miner. It's more configurable. Though there are two CPU mining algorithms now, there only used to be one. The old one had a lessthreads option that when set left that number of threads alone... so if set to 0 it uses the whole CPU, if set to 2 it leaves 2 of my 4 cores alone. The new miner runs faster, so Nicehash uses it over the old one, but it only seems to use 3 threads on my system and the lessthreads box is greyed out. Not sure how to change that.


----------



## 111frodon (Nov 2, 2017)

I suggest to evryone to check if cryptonight is enabled in their nicehash settings. My production  went from 2$/day mining Eth/DCR to almost 4$ mining cryptonight this morning!

Edit: This is for a rx 480 in $CAD


----------



## trog100 (Nov 2, 2017)

i will have a look see.. last time i looked cpu mining would have taken 5 days to get one dollar.. but crypto is very volatile at the moment..

trog

ps.. yep mine is now showing 1.02 dollars per day.. far better than what it was..


----------



## 111frodon (Nov 2, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i will have a look see.. last time i looked cpu mining would have taken 5 days to get one dollar.. but crypto is very volatile at the moment..
> 
> trog
> 
> ps.. yep mine is now showing 1.02 dollars per day.. far better than what it was..



My 2500k@4.4 ghz is at 1.05-1.07$ per day, up from 0.32-0.35$ when i went to sleep last night. I'll go and switch my mining rig after work, i'm curious to see if my 290s will double their production, just like my rx 480 did.


----------



## hat (Nov 2, 2017)

I think he's talking about cryotonight on GPU. I noticed my 1070s running it making a decent amount, more than the average as of late.

ed. Guess he did mean CPU after all. I do run it just cause but I didn't notice any significant change there.


----------



## 111frodon (Nov 2, 2017)

hat said:


> I think he's talking about cryotonight on GPU. I noticed my 1070s running it making a decent amount, more than the average as of late.
> 
> ed. Guess he did mean CPU after all. I do run it just cause but I didn't notice any significant change there.



In fact i meant both. Cpu and gpu are both running cryptonight atm and it seems like it's value has increased around 2.5x overnight. I'm at work and don't have access to all web sites, so i don't understand where it's coming from!


----------



## trog100 (Nov 2, 2017)

i looked at mine again.. 1.14 dollars per day just running the cpu miner.. definitely worth running on a one or two card desktop rig.. it uses about 40% cpu power on my 7700k cpu..

on my 8 card mining rig with a kaby lake I3 cpu at 3.9 gig not so much.. it hogs 100% cpu power which is not good..

how long it stays this way is an unknown.. he he

trog


----------



## 111frodon (Nov 2, 2017)

My total production of 140 MH of ethereum was netting me 12-13$ daily. Now it is 18-19$! And my power consomption is down 25%.  Check your rigs, especially if your using ellesmere cards. They seems to love cryptonight, my 1325/2100 rx480 4gb is at 725 H.

It’d be nice if someone could check if the memory timings are as important as eth.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 2, 2017)

111frodon said:


> My total production of 140 MH of ethereum was netting me 12-13$ daily. Now it is 18-19$! And my power consomption is down 25%.  Check your rigs, especially if your using ellesmere cards. They seems to love cryptonight, my 1325/2100 rx480 4gb is at 725 H.
> 
> It’d be nice if someone could check if the memory timings are as important as eth.


Not really seams core speed helps more to me.


----------



## 111frodon (Nov 3, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Not really seams core speed helps more to me.



From what Google can tell me, it seems like the core is relevant when there’s a monitor connected to the card. If not, then memory timings is the way to go, to the point of lowering core clock not having an impact on hash speed. Again this is not experience, only what i could gather.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 3, 2017)

111frodon said:


> From what Google can tell me, it seems like the core is relevant when there’s a monitor connected to the card. If not, then memory timings is the way to go, to the point of lowering core clock not having an impact on hash speed. Again this is not experience, only what i could gather.


Ill defo have more of a look i worked quick checking little ty


----------



## cdawall (Nov 3, 2017)

It is definitely affected by memory clocks. 







1070 pulls a full 100h/s more than a 1080.


----------



## 111frodon (Nov 3, 2017)

Anyone knows why monero is rising so strongly?


----------



## cdawall (Nov 3, 2017)

111frodon said:


> Anyone knows why monero is rising so strongly?



Monero has not raised any different than anything else. Electroneum is the one people are making bank on right now.


----------



## 111frodon (Nov 3, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Monero has not raised any different than anything else. Electroneum is the one people are making bank on right now.



Thanks. I still don’t understand why my income has increased threefold since last night. Might be a good thing i work in a hospital instead of wall street...


----------



## cdawall (Nov 3, 2017)

111frodon said:


> Thanks. I still don’t understand why my income has increased threefold since last night. Might be a good thing i work in a hospital instead of wall street...



The new coin is just worth more per hash


----------



## yotano211 (Nov 3, 2017)

Does everyone just mine with Nicehash, I mine with the Claymore's Dual Ethereum mining program.


----------



## Final_Fighter (Nov 3, 2017)

it seems that way. i looked at nicehash but stuck with claymore.


----------



## 111frodon (Nov 3, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Does everyone just mine with Nicehash, I mine with the Claymore's Dual Ethereum mining program.



I just like the fact that nicehash can switch between many different coins, based on profitability.


----------



## cdawall (Nov 3, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Does everyone just mine with Nicehash, I mine with the Claymore's Dual Ethereum mining program.



I have mined coins straight, but when weird coins that I don't want to deal with garbage exchanges for pop up I just use nicehash. Once you pay exchange fees to trade them the fee nicehash charges is the same (roughly).


----------



## silkstone (Nov 3, 2017)

I just switched over a couple of miners to ETN. I'll keep them mining a little to store up some coins and then switch back to XMR.

As far as I can make out, there is only 1 exchange listing ETN at the moment anyway. Once it becomes a little more mainstream, it'll be easier to trade.

I also can't find any online wallets, just an offline one, but then, I've not really spend much effort searching.


----------



## phill (Nov 3, 2017)

111frodon said:


> My total production of 140 MH of ethereum was netting me 12-13$ daily. Now it is 18-19$! And my power consomption is down 25%.  Check your rigs, especially if your using ellesmere cards. They seems to love cryptonight, my 1325/2100 rx480 4gb is at 725 H.
> 
> It’d be nice if someone could check if the memory timings are as important as eth.



I was just wondering what miner program you were using as a friend and I've changed over to Nicehash, but with 6 cards, the amount we mine isn't seeming to be very high??  Our clock speeds are tweaked and power draw so power draw is down, but we are using older drivers and I'm curious if this is having a big effect on the hash rates I'm getting....


----------



## trog100 (Nov 3, 2017)

lyra2rev2 seem to be the most profitable one that hicehash has been using over the last couple of weeks.. montero and vertcoin.. vertcoin went up by %500 over the last couple of weeks its dropped back a fair bit now.. 

i actually tried to buy some vertcoin but so far havnt managed to get any.. buying this sh-t aint exactly easy.. he he..

trog


----------



## phill (Nov 3, 2017)

I have noticed that the DAG files have been going up, the power requirements have dropped down..  When we started the power draw was about 800w or so for 6 480 flashed to 580 cards and hashing about the 175MH mark, give or take.  Now if I remember rightly, it's hashing about the 145MH but the power requirements are down to about the 750w mark.  Not a massive drop but 50w saved per 24 hours helps a little bit 

I'm curious if the setup is mining as efficiently as it should be?  

cdawall's post makes me wonder if its just down to what I'm using or something else?  How many cards do you have in your setup?


----------



## cdawall (Nov 3, 2017)

phill said:


> cdawall's post makes me wonder if its just down to what I'm using or something else? How many cards do you have in your setup?



Which specific rig? I have more than one running on average 7 cards per (I had to split down my 12 card box)

My heavily mixed rig pulls 580w+350w 4 470/570/580 a 390 and a 1060. Everything else is completely pascal based.


----------



## phill (Nov 3, 2017)

The one showing the 1070's/1080's?  I was wondering if my AMD 480 flashed to 580's are running as well as they should be??  I'm only using a 1200w unit, so at the moment dual mining it's pulling about the 950w at the moment....  I've got it running 1130/2120 for core/ram settings with the core voltage down -96mV and power limit to -25% and temp limit to 62C..   My hash rates at the moment are 0.133G/4G H/s for ETH and SC..  I'm getting an average rate of 1.0mBTC a day from the 6 cards...  Is this sounding about right or wrong to anyone?


----------



## silkstone (Nov 3, 2017)

trog100 said:


> lyra2rev2 seem to be the most profitable one that hicehash has been using over the last couple of weeks.. montero and vertcoin.. vertcoin went up by %500 over the last couple of weeks its dropped back a fair bit now..
> 
> i actually tried to buy some vertcoin but so far havnt managed to get any.. buying this sh-t aint exactly easy.. he he..
> 
> trog



I had some VTC, but sold it at $2.80 BTC equivilent. Doh! It's pretty hard to judge the highs on these things.


I did put I buy order back in at $2.20 BTC equiv, with the decline in VTC and rise in BTC, I'm actually not far from filling the order.


----------



## hat (Nov 3, 2017)

Cryptonight on my 1070s is strange. Core clocks are upwards of 1900mhz, tdp 50-60% (when set to 90%) and perfcap reason vrel in gpuz. The room the rig is in has been noticeably cooler with cryptonight.


----------



## phill (Nov 3, 2017)

How easy is Cryptonight to setup and is it worth a look?  I don't leave the miner on all the time (solar panels are a blessing when its a kinda nice day...) but I am curious if I can make our miner more efficient and better than what it is..  

What do your AMD rigs get roughly for a day?  I'm looking at $8 a day from 6 cards...  Is that low??


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 3, 2017)

phill said:


> How easy is Cryptonight to setup and is it worth a look?  I don't leave the miner on all the time (solar panels are a blessing when its a kinda nice day...) but I am curious if I can make our miner more efficient and better than what it is..
> 
> What do your AMD rigs get roughly for a day?  I'm looking at $8 a day from 6 cards...  Is that low??


Seams like crypto nights fell off the cliff edge to me since my rigs have all switched back to Eth and decred mining , that's one good point about nicehash if you have more than one algorithm allowed ie in default mode it mines the best coin.


----------



## phill (Nov 3, 2017)

I was mining that before hand, I've just got Crypto installed, don't tell me it's a waste of time!! lol   What algorithms are best to keep in there??  I'm still learning..  My mate did most of the work with this, I just supplied the hardware to begin with


----------



## phill (Nov 3, 2017)

I've just been testing Crypto and it's massively different to what I've been used to...  With the same clock speeds and memory speeds, the daily amount is slightly higher but the amount of power it's taking has dropped by I believe nearly a 1/3....    I'm not sure if I'm getting good results with my flashed 480's and if someone wouldn't mind telling me, I'd be very grateful


----------



## trog100 (Nov 3, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Seams like crypto nights fell off the cliff edge to me since my rigs have all switched back to Eth and decred mining , that's one good point about nicehash if you have more than one algorithm allowed ie in default mode it mines the best coin.



my cards have never mined cryptonight just the cpu but yes its fell off a cliff.. he he

trog


----------



## phill (Nov 3, 2017)

What does everyone keep on in their Nicehash as our miner still seems to be on Cryptonight with others selected..  Would anyone mind telling me what they have selected at all?  I've tried some benchmarks but some have failed but I'm not sure why...


----------



## hat (Nov 3, 2017)

I have all algorithms my cards are capable of running selected. It's usually dual mining daggerhashimoto and decreed or running equihash... Cryptonight is/was an anomaly. Nicehash will auto switch depending on what's best at the time.


----------



## phill (Nov 3, 2017)

I'm not sure I can get all of the algorithms running with my cards for some reason, some of them decide to crash and not run/benchmark..  Not sure why that would be??  

I've just been doing some tests with Cryptonite and I'm very impressed with it since it runs cooler (not dual mining I think??)/uses less power and is at least twice as efficient to mine with..  Still it would take the miner 2 years of constant mining to earn 1 Bitcoin tho lol


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 3, 2017)

phill said:


> I've just been testing Crypto and it's massively different to what I've been used to...  With the same clock speeds and memory speeds, the daily amount is slightly higher but the amount of power it's taking has dropped by I believe nearly a 1/3....    I'm not sure if I'm getting good results with my flashed 480's and if someone wouldn't mind telling me, I'd be very grateful


I personally think yours are set to too low a power slider your output seams a little low to me for six.


----------



## phill (Nov 3, 2017)

I've tried it with just standard settings, so default settings to the entire setup and it didn't really make any difference at all for the speed but it did make it chew 920w instead of 600w nearly giving me the same hashrates...  I've changed it back for the moment.... :s


----------



## cdawall (Nov 3, 2017)

phill said:


> The one showing the 1070's/1080's?  I was wondering if my AMD 480 flashed to 580's are running as well as they should be??  I'm only using a 1200w unit, so at the moment dual mining it's pulling about the 950w at the moment....  I've got it running 1130/2120 for core/ram settings with the core voltage down -96mV and power limit to -25% and temp limit to 62C..   My hash rates at the moment are 0.133G/4G H/s for ETH and SC..  I'm getting an average rate of 1.0mBTC a day from the 6 cards...  Is this sounding about right or wrong to anyone?




133mh/s over 6 cards is only 22mh/s per card which is very low.


----------



## hat (Nov 3, 2017)

phill said:


> I'm not sure I can get all of the algorithms running with my cards for some reason, some of them decide to crash and not run/benchmark..  Not sure why that would be??
> 
> I've just been doing some tests with Cryptonite and I'm very impressed with it since it runs cooler (not dual mining I think??)/uses less power and is at least twice as efficient to mine with..  Still it would take the miner 2 years of constant mining to earn 1 Bitcoin tho lol



Not sure why benchmarks would crash. Did you select benchmarks that were not selected by default? Maybe your cards don't support those.

Cryptonight isn't dual mining but that's not why it's efficient on power draw. It uses far less power than equihash which is also not a dual miner. Something else is going on...


----------



## 111frodon (Nov 3, 2017)

cdawall said:


> 133mh/s over 6 cards is only 22mh/s per card which is very low.



My rx 480, running at 1325/2100 core/mem, stock volts and power target, is mining eth/dcr at a little over 23 Mh/s. I think it takes bios tweaks to go higher?


----------



## cdawall (Nov 4, 2017)

111frodon said:


> My rx 480, running at 1325/2100 core/mem, stock volts and power target, is mining eth/dcr at a little over 23 Mh/s. I think it takes bios tweaks to go higher?



I have seen 28 stock from aftermarket cards, but for the most part yes. Have you checked my crypto stickied BIOS page?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 4, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I have seen 28 stock from aftermarket cards, but for the most part yes. Have you checked my crypto stickied BIOS page?


With the latest beta drivers in compute mode my refs and saphire pulses all can easily do 30 peaking 31.5 and are quite good at cryptonight.
Just have to bios flash the right memory timings with the right software but tbh on a per card basis this was a bitch especially the pulses so it depends what card.


----------



## cdawall (Nov 4, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> With the latest beta drivers in compute mode my refs and saphire pulses all can easily do 30 peaking 31.5 and are quite good at cryptonight.
> Just have to bios flash the right memory timings with the right software but tbh on a per card basis this was a bitch especially the pulses so it depends what card.




You should add the BIOS's to my batch of cards. I want to have the most complete set of them possible


----------



## phill (Nov 4, 2017)

hat said:


> Not sure why benchmarks would crash. Did you select benchmarks that were not selected by default? Maybe your cards don't support those.
> 
> Cryptonight isn't dual mining but that's not why it's efficient on power draw. It uses far less power than equihash which is also not a dual miner. Something else is going on...



I have probably tried getting the benchmarks to run on things that are meant for Nvidia hardware which won't really help when I'm running AMD lol  But that said, I'm just going through each benchmark one at a time and testing which do and don't crash.  I remember to run on Precise as well, as sometimes that helps with running the test and getting it passed first time.



111frodon said:


> My rx 480, running at 1325/2100 core/mem, stock volts and power target, is mining eth/dcr at a little over 23 Mh/s. I think it takes bios tweaks to go higher?



Do you know what wattage your pulling running that??



cdawall said:


> I have seen 28 stock from aftermarket cards, but for the most part yes. Have you checked my crypto stickied BIOS page?



Mine used to be that high but as the DAG size as gone up, each time it does, the hash rate drops...



theoneandonlymrk said:


> With the latest beta drivers in compute mode my refs and saphire pulses all can easily do 30 peaking 31.5 and are quite good at cryptonight.
> Just have to bios flash the right memory timings with the right software but tbh on a per card basis this was a bitch especially the pulses so it depends what card.





cdawall said:


> You should add the BIOS's to my batch of cards. I want to have the most complete set of them possible



I found this link last night - http://1stminingrig.com/amd-radeon-rx-400-rx-500-will-be-no-longer-profitable-for-ethereum-mining/

I hope it helps a little as reading it through I'm more or less running exactly the same speeds as is being mentioned in the article.  My power draw and such are lower as well, so I'm happy ish, but the performance has dropped hard.  AMD I think did realise some drivers that made it ignore the DAG file size I believe, but when I got them to work with my modded cards, the power draw was massive and I couldn't change it so I switched back as the extra performance sadly really didn't help against the extra power draw  

I'd be more than willing to share some settings or test results that I have done if people would like to see


----------



## 111frodon (Nov 4, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I have seen 28 stock from aftermarket cards, but for the most part yes. Have you checked my crypto stickied BIOS page?



Yes. My msi model isn’t there. When i tried to unlock my nitro rx 460 4gb, with a bios from ocn forum i think, i never managed to install drivers correctly afterward. Same thing with my 290/290x.

@phill

Around 130-140w dual-mining eth/dcr. More like 80-90w for crypto. All from gpu-z, as I don’t have a kill-a-watt

This morning, it is still crypto that is more profitable for me.


----------



## phill (Nov 4, 2017)

I've bought a few power meters, really useful and very helpful when you want to work out the cost of anything   Definitely recommend one as the GPU-Z reports aren't the most accurate.. How many cards do you have in your rig?  

From 6 480s @ 1145/2150, I'm pulling just over 600w I believe   When I was dual mining that was up to about 950w from the wall according to the meter, massive drop in power consumption and it certainly more efficient and more profitable too   Just running with a single 1200w unit..


----------



## cdawall (Nov 4, 2017)

phill said:


> I have probably tried getting the benchmarks to run on things that are meant for Nvidia hardware which won't really help when I'm running AMD lol  But that said, I'm just going through each benchmark one at a time and testing which do and don't crash.  I remember to run on Precise as well, as sometimes that helps with running the test and getting it passed first time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If you are running block chain drivers they fixed the DAG performance drop issues. I still push over 30 on my 580/480 and 27-28 on my 470/570


----------



## phill (Nov 4, 2017)

What drivers do you use and do you have modified cards that tweak the bios of the cards?


----------



## 111frodon (Nov 4, 2017)

phill said:


> I've bought a few power meters, really useful and very helpful when you want to work out the cost of anything   Definitely recommend one as the GPU-Z reports aren't the most accurate.. How many cards do you have in your rig?
> 
> From 6 480s @ 1145/2150, I'm pulling just over 600w I believe   When I was dual mining that was up to about 950w from the wall according to the meter, massive drop in power consumption and it certainly more efficient and more profitable too   Just running with a single 1200w unit..



I have 3 290 and one 290x on a x5650/g1.assassin base (never managed to add a fifth card to this combo) and a rx 480 at home on a 2500k/z68. I know i’ll have to buy a meter, but I pay 0,05$ a kW, so power is not a priority...


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 4, 2017)

phill said:


> What does everyone keep on in their Nicehash as our miner still seems to be on Cryptonight with others selected..  Would anyone mind telling me what they have selected at all?  I've tried some benchmarks but some have failed but I'm not sure why...


Crypto night , eth decred combo on radeon cards.
I enable equihash as well for Pascal and disable others as nice hash does occasionally mine weird low value shit sometimes if you let it , i also use the legacy version not v2 as its easier to setup.
@cdawall i looked at your bios collection before and was sure you had mine but ill make sure and post them if not.

@phill your cards might be set to the same frequency but with a bios flash the top memory timings are swapped for the 1750 memory timings (low level frequency timings for latency etc) which gives more bandwidth at the same speed mine show 268Gb/s in gpuz now for example.


----------



## phill (Nov 4, 2017)

111frodon said:


> I have 3 290 and one 290x on a x5650/g1.assassin base (never managed to add a fifth card to this combo) and a rx 480 at home on a 2500k/z68. I know i’ll have to buy a meter, but I pay 0,05$ a kW, so power is not a priority...



I can understand that   I have got solar panels as well, so I suppose you could say I don't have to worry about power as such, but this is the UK...  It's kinda rare that we aren't rained on everyday lol  I still like to see the power usage since I know that without modding the bios these cards will suck 1200w from the wall and as I have a 1200w PSU, I have to be a little bit careful 



theoneandonlymrk said:


> Crypto night , eth decred combo on radeon cards.
> I enable equihash as well for Pascal and disable others as nice hash does occasionally mine weird low value shit sometimes if you let it , i also use the legacy version not v2 as its easier to setup.
> @cdawall i looked at your bios collection before and was sure you had mine but ill make sure and post them if not.
> 
> @phillyour cards might be set to the same frequency but with a bios flash the top memory timings are swapped for the 1750 memory timings (low level frequency timings for latency etc) which gives more bandwidth at the same speed mine show 268Gb/s in gpuz now for example.



Thanks for that theoneandonlymrk   I've just tried running GPU-Z and it's showing up unknown bandwidth for my cards?  But they are clocked to 2150Mhz at the moment, I've never noticed having any issues at higher frequencies, the Asus Strix cards I have, have been completely rock stable and the temps are amazingly low  
Do you not run with a modified bios at all?  If you do, what driver version do you use?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 4, 2017)

phill said:


> I can understand that   I have got solar panels as well, so I suppose you could say I don't have to worry about power as such, but this is the UK...  It's kinda rare that we aren't rained on everyday lol  I still like to see the power usage since I know that without modding the bios these cards will suck 1200w from the wall and as I have a 1200w PSU, I have to be a little bit careful
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats what im saying phill all my bios had to be modded , yes yours are set to run at a frequency but my flash bios drives the same frequency quicker via tertiary timings you normally cannot change ,only via bios mod.
And the power slider things important if set too low it will modulate the frequency of your cards ,you want it just high enough so it doesn't downclock the memory below its highest power state , some 580s have a mid power state making 3 in total top , middle and bottom, you don't want your memory stepping down to the middle state.
Monitor at least mid term what clocks your cards are holding once your sure your sure.

Amds latest 11.1 beta drivers set to compute mode (per card)in settings are as good if not better than the original blockchain drivers Amd released a few months back.


----------



## phill (Nov 4, 2017)

Is there a way I could therefore test to see if my settings are holding the cards back at all?  I have been doing some power tests and I'm right on the edge for it jumping into the next power band..  I've never known or noticed any throttling of the cards core or ram clocks..  They just sit there at the speeds I've set  

Would you suggest for me to try the AMD latest cards and see whether or not they would help push up my hash rate at all?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 4, 2017)

phill said:


> Is there a way I could therefore test to see if my settings are holding the cards back at all?  I have been doing some power tests and I'm right on the edge for it jumping into the next power band..  I've never known or noticed any throttling of the cards core or ram clocks..  They just sit there at the speeds I've set
> 
> Would you suggest for me to try the AMD latest cards and see whether or not they would help push up my hash rate at all?


Try hwinfo64 its afree app if you right click on an item you can chart it over time i run this a while monitoring all clocks.ie i select to chart all cards gpu and memory clock.
There's no bench or app that shows tertiary memory timings only hash rate indicates it well ,my saphire pulses tuned to the same core1200/2100 memory clocks did 24mh/s before flashing and 30-31 after , same with the reference cards though they did 26mh /s pre flash.
Thats still at the same clocks.

A tuned vega does 40-44mh/s (/1600core1100mem-20%power@1.050v)@150-190 watts or 1.6 kh/s on crypto night eaning about 2.30£ a day but flexing in reality between 1.90-2.30 a day.


----------



## phill (Nov 4, 2017)

I wonder what it wrong with mine...  I think it's the drivers but I have to be careful of which drivers I used because otherwise it won't run at all and I can't change the power rating of the GPU's which makes them rather inefficient...  GPU-Z at the moment shows my GPU using 72w each at the moment...


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 4, 2017)

phill said:


> I wonder what it wrong with mine...  I think it's the drivers but I have to be careful of which drivers I used because otherwise it won't run at all and I can't change the power rating of the GPU's which makes them rather inefficient...  GPU-Z at the moment shows my GPU using 72w each at the moment...


nothing , on your settings they are doing ok ,have you not flashed their bios with a timing modded bios, if you send me your bios ill mod it and return it to you to try ,you could pre determine clocks too ,ill set them.

no need to mess with the power setting in bios i assure you.


----------



## phill (Nov 4, 2017)

So what needs changing for the cards to work better with a higher hash rate than what they are doing at the moment?  I'm not sure which or what bios my mate flashed all of my cards to, but I can and will find out for you   I have uploaded both of the roms I believe I'm using, one flashes to a 580 and the other 1750 strap for the ram timings I believe 

At present I think I'm averaging about the 22 to 23MH a card depending on what I'm mining (ETC seems to be lower than ETH for example) but the temps etc seem to be very good, under 40C under full load.  I've not noticed today any drops in core or ram speed either...   What will your bios mod allow the cards to do?


----------



## yotano211 (Nov 4, 2017)

Anyone had their power supply degrade over time from mining.
So far I have had 3 Rosewill quark 1000w psu degrade from mining. They work but cant keep the power rating of 1000 watts. These power supplies are about 5 months old. All 3 where running at around 700-800watts.


----------



## cdawall (Nov 4, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Anyone had their power supply degrade over time from mining.
> So far I have had 3 Rosewill quark 1000w psu degrade from mining. They work but cant keep the power rating of 1000 watts. These power supplies are about 5 months old. All 3 where running at around 700-800watts.



I had to rma a tt 1000w that smoked a 8pin pcie, but other than that no. My tt 1200w runs at 1100-1200w (depending on coin) 24/7


----------



## yotano211 (Nov 4, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I had to rma a tt 1000w that smoked a 8pin pcie, but other than that no. My tt 1200w runs at 1100-1200w (depending on coin) 24/7


Do you know why it smoked the 8pin.


----------



## cdawall (Nov 5, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Do you know why it smoked the 8pin.



One of my 1060's died and overdrew the cable.


----------



## MIRTAZAPINE (Nov 5, 2017)

hat said:


> Speaking of CPU mining... does anyone here do it? Has anyone noticed that the rewards from CPU mining seem to be stable when GPU mining seems to fluctuate wildly?




I do Cpu mined. It is pretty viable with Cryptonight especially on AMD ryzen. I have been doing it with my 1700 cpu which is quite dud overclocker, hoping it would offset the cost of the cpu or breakeven not really looking to make alot of money. Cpu mining seems to just used the amount of physical cores that your cpu have rather than the threads. My current Cpu is running at 50% with mining with nicehash Crytonight. Setting the cpu to used all threads would reduce the hashes.






My 1700 at 3.6Ghz average about 550-600 hash a second with nothing on. Before you cpu mine make sure to large page files or lock pages.  Locking pages would enable higher hashrate by locking processes in physical memory rather than windows paging them. This would used slightly more ram. Before locking pages my ryzen would do 400- 500 hash/s so it is good 100 to 150 hash increase. I find cpu mining sensitive to what type of miner your gpu is using. As soon as nicehash switch to daggerdecreed for my rx460 I lose quite alot of cpu hashes with it dropping to 400- 450 strangely. I am left deciding with higher cpu profit or gpu profit having a weak gpu I left it to the former with nicehash using crptonight for the gpu.

*To enable the lock pages in memory option*

On the Start menu, click Run. In the Open box, type gpedit.msc.

The Group Policy dialog box opens.


On the Group Policy console, expand Computer Configuration, and then expand Windows Settings.


Expand Security Settings, and then expand Local Policies.


Select the User Rights Assignment folder.

The policies will be displayed in the details pane.


In the pane, double-click Lock pages in memory.


In the Local Security Policy Setting dialog box, click Add.


In the Select Users or Groups dialog box, add an account with privileges to run sqlservr.exe.


----------



## hat (Nov 5, 2017)

I dunno if that would be worth it for me. My machine is not a dedicated miner, and I'm not sure what effect enabling that would have on other things...


----------



## trog100 (Nov 5, 2017)

i am running an 8 x 1070 card mining rig which draws 1200 watts from the wall.. in dollar terms it produces between 12 and 15 dollars per day..

i also mine with my desktop machine.. 2 x 1070 cards plus the cpu on cryptonnight.. it produces 3.5 to 4 dollars per day.. my next daily payout from nicehash will be 17.5 dollars.. somewhere 15 and 17 is the  average..

i have been mining for just over two months.. my nicehash wallet now has just over 1700 dollars in it or 0.23 bitcoin.. bitcoin is now just over 7000 dollars..

as bitcoin goes up relative to what nicehash is mining the bitcoin return goes down.. mine has dropped from 0.0044-ish to 0.0025-ish per day.. which is a shame because stashing bitcoin is now my game..

at least 500 dollars of my wallet total is down to bitcoin going up in value over the two months i have been mining.. how much money i make over a year depends entirely on what happens to the bitcoin price.. in the time i have been mining bitcoin has gone from $4000 to $7000 dollars.. in retrospect the money i spent building a mining rig would have been better spent simply buying bitcoin.. but i did build the rig for fun.. back then i would never have simply bought coin.. but back then i did not know what i know now..

trog

ps.. the way its working now.. i have just over 1/5 of a bitcoin.. which means for every $100 dollars bitcoin goes up i make $20 dollars.. this would be added to my mining take.. i do expect bitcoin to keep going up as a general trend but i could be wrong.. he he

and when bitcoin takes one of its regular dips in dollar terms my stash goes down.. but not in bitcoin terms my daily return goes up..

ps 2.. bitcoin is now close to 7600 dollars.. 24 hours ago it was 7200.. my current daily gain is 17.5 from nicehash mining and about 90 dollars from the gain in the bitcoin price..

roughly 110 dollars.. all in all a nice profit.. dont cash in your f-cking bitcoin unless you have to..


----------



## phill (Nov 5, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i am running an 8 x 1070 card mining rig which draws 1200 watts from the wall.. in dollar terms it produces between 12 and 15 dollars per day..
> 
> i also mine with my desktop machine.. 2 x 1070 cards plus the cpu on cryptonnight.. it produces 3.5 to 4 dollars per day.. my next daily payout from nicehash will be 17.5 dollars.. somewhere 15 and 17 is the  average..
> 
> ...



I'm surprised at the draw from the 8 cards and the amount it seems to produce, I thought it would be a lot more than that and lower power draw??

At the moment, I have 6 480's running at 1100/2100 and for ETC/ETH mining (whilst I was doing some testing this morning) they pull about the 740w mark from the wall.  Running Nicehash and Cryptonite, I seem to be pulling somewhat less of about 620w from the wall but running 1145/2150.  Fans are set to 48% speed and are generally pretty quiet thankfully but temps rarely hit above 40C with the ETC/ETH or Nicehash unless it's dual mining then it was nearer the 50C whilst pulling 950w.

The Nicehash rate has dropped slightly as I was earning about $12 or so a day from the cards, but it seems now it's nearer the $10 to $11 mark which isn't soo bad I guess just a shame it's not kept a more steady rate.   It's global rate at the moment is about the 1.42 to 1.45 mark.  Before I think it was nearer 2 or just slightly over, changed over night for some reason...

I'm with you Trog in what I'm trying to do but it will take me a long time to make anywhere near a Bitcoin or even 0.1 of a coin as I tend to mine during the day when the solar panels are saving me money on my electric   Sadly being in the UK isn't the most helpful when it comes to sun!!   If there's anything that I could do to help increase my performance of what I'm mining I'd gladly do it, but I go along the assumption that rather than running something flat out, max fan etc, I tend to back it back, run it more or less like a tick over, so I can monitor the wattage it pulls and what it makes me.  To me there's no point whatsoever to run it flat out making an extra dollar a day if it's costing you an extra $4 dollars to run it and run the risk of killing your hardware.  
I'll do a bit more testing as to where the cards up their voltages and at what clock speeds since I am running the cards at -96 mV on their cores.  It seems to be dropping connection a bit waiting for work, is this normal?


----------



## trog100 (Nov 5, 2017)

the way  bitcoin is going up it pays to acquire it as quickly as possible.. stop being mean with the power usage.. its costing you money..

i just did a quick check of my 17 dollars a day mining figure.. it shows 1100 dollars from mining and 650 from bitcoin price gains.. totaling 1765..

bear in mind i had f-ck all bitcoin to start with.. that 650 dollar gain is mostly from the last month..

basically i am now buying bitcoin for the cost of UK electricity.. a pretty cheap price to pay..  the only snag is i aint buying it quickly enough..

i expect a high power bill.. but i really need to get more bitcoin quicker.. the more i have the more i will make..

i really do wish i had bought some back when it dropped off to 3000 dollars.. i would have done but didnt have the means set up to do so.. i now have a coinbase account set up..

i do see this as a long term thing.. but to be effective it does need money chucking at it now..

trog

ps.. the bottom line is..  in the UK mining isnt really profitable enough on its own.. having built the rigs i will keep letting them run 24/7 but i know future profits will come from bitcoin going to the moon.. which is something i expect it to do..


----------



## phill (Nov 5, 2017)

I've just been doing some testing and with the GPUs at their stock speeds (1360/2000 but I left the memory overclock at 2150) I could see no real gain ??  Right now I'm sat at a Global Rate of 1.6 mBTC a day, so a bit over $12 a day..  I had started about a week ago to an older account and sadly that wasn't 'working' so I've sadly lost that cash, but that was doing dual mining which was using 1000w an hour for less performance than what I'm getting now   Shocking really..  

I'll have to throw up some screen shots, some wattage readings just to show what the differences are.. I'm not just going for Bitcoin, as you say and I completely agree, in time it will just go up and up and up...  The more Bitcoin stock I can get, the better..  I do have stock in ETH and ETC as well, but they are being left alone at the moment, however I do need to mine some more ETC to get to the next payout but that's taken a bit of a back burner since Bitcoin is much more profitable...

I'm trying to avoid a high power bill simply due to my wages dropping like a stone, so I'm now just making sure I can mine whatever I can during the day and getting as much as I can whenever I can..  The rig has been rock solid and for a few times, it's been on for a month without dropping a single share mining ETC and ETH too.  

I'm making the most of my solar panels today, seems to be a bit sunny so everything is turned on and mining and crunching


----------



## yotano211 (Nov 5, 2017)

Its better to just build mining machines for miners.


----------



## trog100 (Nov 5, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Its better to just build mining machines for miners.



i have been looking at some on ebay for a while.. basically they are not selling.. 

trog


----------



## phill (Nov 5, 2017)

cdawall, what do your 1070's manage for hashrate in the picture you put up on page 63??  I was just curious as I'm wondering what my 480's are like in comparison   It seems like the Global Rate has dropped a fair bit over the last couple of days, are you finding that too?  

Trog100, are you finding the same with the Global Rate too?


----------



## Finners (Nov 5, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i really do wish i had bought some back when it dropped off to 3000 dollars.. i would have done but didnt have the means set up to do so.. i now have a coinbase account set up..
> 
> i do see this as a long term thing.. but to be effective it does need money chucking at it now..
> 
> ...



I feel exactly the same. Would have made a ton more money if I had just brought coins when I started and waited but felt it was too risky and at least buying the hardware it would always have some value if it all crashed. Fast forward to now and the risk is even bigger as bitcoin is so high but fear I'll be saying the say stuff all over again if it just keeps going up and up


----------



## trog100 (Nov 6, 2017)

back when it was 4000 just after the drop to 3000 i thought i had missed the chance.. now i know how wrong i was.. this thing has a long way to run yet.. 

trog


----------



## phill (Nov 6, 2017)

Has anyone found today their Global Rate has dropped down over the course of the day?  I've gone from 1.5 ish to about 1.3?  Has anyone else noticed or found this?


----------



## cdawall (Nov 6, 2017)

phill said:


> cdawall, what do your 1070's manage for hashrate in the picture you put up on page 63??  I was just curious as I'm wondering what my 480's are like in comparison   It seems like the Global Rate has dropped a fair bit over the last couple of days, are you finding that too?
> 
> Trog100, are you finding the same with the Global Rate too?



Quite a bit slower than a 470/480 per card 666 h/s vs the 700+ my Polaris cards can do. I could probably tweak the memory to change that a bit.


----------



## verycharbroiled (Nov 6, 2017)

phill said:


> Global Rate



?


----------



## phill (Nov 6, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Quite a bit slower than a 470/480 per card 666 h/s vs the 700+ my Polaris cards can do. I could probably tweak the memory to change that a bit.



What do you run your 470/480's at cdawall??  It seems I'm hitting about the 750 h/s ish mark with mine currently...



verycharbroiled said:


> ?



If you look at the bottom left hand side of NiceHash screen, you'll see something called 'Global rate' there and I'm wondering what it means as I'm seeing it change from anything from 1 to 2+ but my hashrate seems to be staying the same..  I'm a little confused as to what it's doing or meaning!!  For example at the moment, it's up to 2.3 which is great since I'm earning more this morning


----------



## trog100 (Nov 6, 2017)

what my two 1070 card desktop machine is showing.. good or bad i dont know..

with the cpu mining as well its actually producing over 5 dollars per day at the moment.. that is about as high as it ever goes though.






trog


----------



## phill (Nov 6, 2017)

Is that showing each card Trog or is that a total?  At the moment my total is 4.550kH/s for the 6 cards I have running... Global Rate of a bit over 1.70....  Whatever that means... lol


----------



## trog100 (Nov 6, 2017)

the pic is for both cards in my desktop machine.. it does compare as it should with my 8 card mining machine.. the miner reads 4 x what the desktop shows.. not always exactly but close enough..

its a shame that nicehash has to buy bitcoin with whatever its mining.. as the bitcoin price goes up you get less and less of it.. the figure that interests me is the daily bitcoin return.. mine has gone down from .004 something to .0025 -ish.. a hefty drop..

trog


----------



## verycharbroiled (Nov 6, 2017)

phill said:


> If you look at the bottom left hand side of NiceHash screen, you'll see something called 'Global rate' there and I'm wondering what it means as I'm seeing it change from anything from 1 to 2+ but my hashrate seems to be staying the same..  I'm a little confused as to what it's doing or meaning!!  For example at the moment, it's up to 2.3 which is great since I'm earning more this morning



Thanks. I don't use the nicehash miner, I use claymore and ewbf directly and point them at nicehash.


----------



## cdawall (Nov 6, 2017)

phill said:


> What do you run your 470/480's at cdawall?? It seems I'm hitting about the 750 h/s ish mark with mine currently...



They are setup to run 27-28mh/s for the 470's in eth and 30-31 in eth for the 580 so it varies by card. They are not tweaked for etn at all just the old settings for eth


----------



## phill (Nov 6, 2017)

trog100 said:


> the pic is for both cards in my desktop machine.. it does compare as it should with my 8 card mining machine.. the miner reads 4 x what the desktop shows.. not always exactly but close enough..
> 
> its a shame that nicehash has to buy bitcoin with whatever its mining.. as the bitcoin price goes up you get less and less of it.. the figure that interests me is the daily bitcoin return.. mine has gone down from .004 something to .0025 -ish.. a hefty drop..
> 
> trog



The Bitcoin return does seem all over the place, I'm not sure how much I'm making but it's more than not doing it at all  



verycharbroiled said:


> Thanks. I don't use the nicehash miner, I use claymore and ewbf directly and point them at nicehash.



Is that difficult to set up at all?



cdawall said:


> They are setup to run 27-28mh/s for the 470's in eth and 30-31 in eth for the 580 so it varies by card. They are not tweaked for etn at all just the old settings for eth



Mine aren't anywhere close to that for ETH sadly, about 23mh/s at best I think..  DAG files and all have really slowed it down.. Probably down to the bios I have loaded into my Strix cards


----------



## cdawall (Nov 6, 2017)

phill said:


> Mine aren't anywhere close to that for ETH sadly, about 23mh/s at best I think.. DAG files and all have really slowed it down.. Probably down to the bios I have loaded into my Strix cards



The DAG file really shouldn't could be the BIOS or drivers.


----------



## phill (Nov 6, 2017)

The bios of the cards I hope I attached a few posts back now..  The drivers I use are 17.5.1 I believe...  They seem to be the only ones that worked with the modified bios I have   Anything newer doesn't work with the cards or doesn't give me any control on the core voltage or power limits...  Frustrating


----------



## cdawall (Nov 6, 2017)

Run the atikpatcher and install the block chain drivers


----------



## verycharbroiled (Nov 6, 2017)

phill said:


> [using claymore/ewbf miners for nicehash]
> 
> Is that difficult to set up at all?



not really.

here is a list of the various algo pool addys at nicehash, you just point your miner at them:
https://www.nicehash.com/help/which-stratum-servers-are-available

the command line varies with the miner software. here are my command lines as examples (some of the parameters i have are optional/redundant). claymore has a ton of options to control temps, fanspeed, memory and core clocks etc, but i dont use them; i use afterburner. links are to the bitcointalk forum official treads by the miner author, which have the official download links (hope these links do not break any rules).

claymore ethereum: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1433925.0

```
EthDcrMiner64.exe -epool stratum+tcp://daggerhashimoto.usa.nicehash.com:3353 -ewal [BTC ADDY.RIGNAME] -epsw x -esm 3 -allpools 1 -wd 1 -r 1 -mport 3333 -mode 1
```


claymore cryptonight: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=638915.0

```
NsGpuCNMiner.exe -xpool stratum+tcp://cryptonight.usa.nicehash.com:3355 -xwal [BTC ADDY.RIGNAME] -xpsw xxx -dmem 1 -r 1 -dbg -1
```


EWBF: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1707546.0

```
miner --server equihash.usa.nicehash.com --user [BTC ADDY.RIGNAME] --pass x --port 3357 --pec
```

claymore also has a cool monitoring tool that allows you to monitor and control all your claymore rigs and gives pretty detailed statistics as well as decent control of the miners. monitor/control them from one computer. it is included with his miners.

EDIT: ewbf is zcash


----------



## phill (Nov 6, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Run the atikpatcher and install the block chain drivers



Is that very easy to find?  Many apologises for asking daft questions, but if I don't things tend to go wrong!! lol  I hope that this will work!  Was it the latest and greatest drivers I'd need to update to on top of running that piece of software? 



verycharbroiled said:


> not really.
> 
> here is a list of the various algo pool addys at nicehash, you just point your miner at them:
> https://www.nicehash.com/help/which-stratum-servers-are-available
> ...



Many thanks for that!  I'll see how I get on with the update above and then see what happens afterwards!!  I'm hoping for a performance boost!!


----------



## verycharbroiled (Nov 6, 2017)

phill said:


> Many thanks for that!  I'll see how I get on with the update above and then see what happens afterwards!!  I'm hoping for a performance boost!!



not sure about a performance boost (maybe maybe not), there are a couple reasons i use direct mining vs the nicehash miner.

one is that different algos like different tweaks. eth likes high mem clocks and you can undervolt/underclock the core quite a bit. other like high core clocks (and cant undervolt as well) and dont really care about mem clocks. depends on the card and algo. so to get best power to hash ratio you need to pretty much stick to one algo. modding the bios for best hash/watt on eth say may make other algos inefficient.

i also noticed that when using nicehash (a while ago, like 6 months maybe) switching algos occasionally caused instability/lockups. maybe because of my card settings though. nicehash seemed to get stuck on an algo on occasion, when it should of changed. maybe new versions have fixed this.

this part is just a theory of mine but i wonder if when a large percentage of folks (ie nicehash miners) switch to the most profitable algo at the same time, it very quickly becomes unprofitable. kinda defeats the purpose. tons of hash just goes back and forth. and i would rather have a fairly well tuned miner on one algo rather than a "lowest common denominator" tuning that is less power efficient. i do check every once and a while and will switch algos if it seems prudent to do so (i have a couple different afterburner profiles) but aside from the occasional big profitable order with a particular algo on nicehash where the nicehash miner would switch to it on its own it just seems a wash to me. maybe a mistake on my part but i like to just leave my rigs alone for weeks at a time.


----------



## phill (Nov 6, 2017)

I completely agree with what your saying, although what I've done is setup for ETC/ETH and nothing much else if I'm honest..  cdawall has suggested a program for me to try for different setup, so I'm rather interested in seeing what that does for me later on when I get home from work and I've my sorted my chores!!  

I know with NiceHash this morning was a massively good example..  It was mining away on Cryptonite and then all of a sudden changed to something else and my profit was cut in half at the time..  Plus when I looked at the watt meter, it was getting on for nearly double the power draw, something I wasn't very impressed with!  Before leaving for work this morning, I've set it to mine only using Cryptonite and I've left it carry on.  Today has seemed to be rather profitable and I remember from the watt meter, it's kept it pretty low as I don't see the point in running something 110% which is putting more stress on the cards, using more power, creating more heat when backing it back to say 80% to 90% will give you pretty much everything that you get at the 110% mark, but at a lower power consumption and so on.  

I know setting the clocks on my cards running 1145/2140 takes 620w without my other fans on (the cards barely get warm and hit 38C...) but when I set it to run 1215/2140 the power consumption goes up 100w and I can't really see what that extra 100w gives me each hour from the hash rate I see NiceHash reporting..  Makes me feel like I'm wasting energy and electric trying to get it to run that bit faster as the 1145/2140 setting seems to be the best of both worlds...  

When mining ETC and ETH before, my best mate and I just used to leave the rigs running for certainly weeks on end pulling 800w very second and we never even got close to any issues.  The Asus Strix cards I use, have been bloody fantastic for that stability and most definitely temps for which they where definitely a better buy than my friend having the Gigabyte G1's I think they where..


----------



## cdawall (Nov 6, 2017)

phill said:


> Is that very easy to find? Many apologises for asking daft questions, but if I don't things tend to go wrong!! lol I hope that this will work! Was it the latest and greatest drivers I'd need to update to on top of running that piece of software?



The link to it is in my mining BIOS thread. The drivers are whatever ones pop up when you google AMD block chain drivers. I don't even know what version they are anymore I just google it each time  In theory I should probably save those or something.


----------



## phill (Nov 6, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Run the atikpatcher and install the block chain drivers



Are these the two pieces of software I need?  

https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-AMD-ATI-Pixel-Clock-Patcher
http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-art...ta-for-Blockchain-Compute-Release-Notes.aspx#

I'm sorry for the questions, but I just want to make sure as I don't want to damage any of the cards I've got as they've been working so well for so long!!


----------



## phill (Nov 6, 2017)

cdawall said:


> The link to it is in my mining BIOS thread. The drivers are whatever ones pop up when you google AMD block chain drivers. I don't even know what version they are anymore I just google it each time  In theory I should probably save those or something.



I did have a look at your thread ( https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/mining-bios-repository.237382/ ) but my card is not listed    I seem to be doing ok today, 0.002 approx to mine   Much better than what I was getting which was about half that!!


----------



## trog100 (Nov 6, 2017)

i tend to find equihash (zcash) is the most profitable to mine on my nvidia cards.. daggerhash and decred dont seem to produce as much.. 

bitcoin has took a nosedive today.. down about 600 dollars.. 

trog


----------



## phill (Nov 6, 2017)

I've managed to grab a screen shot of what I was hoping to get some clarification on and I'm hoping everyone here might be able to help..  

I've uploaded my 'stats' from NiceHash GUI, could anyone tell me how the Global Rate is calculated or what it's meant to represent at all??  It's been changing throughout the day, the highest I've seen is about the 2.3 mark but then the lowest I've seen is around is 1.8 or so I think?  I'm just curious what it means!!   
I've included a screenshot of the hashrate I think, could someone, anyone, help?? lol   Many thanks in advance!! 

I've only AMD cards Trog so I just go with whatever I can as I have really no idea what to do lol  I saw Bitcoin dropped a bit, I hope that it works out for later on!!


----------



## cdawall (Nov 7, 2017)

phill said:


> I did have a look at your thread ( https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/mining-bios-repository.237382/ ) but my card is not listed    I seem to be doing ok today, 0.002 approx to mine   Much better than what I was getting which was about half that!!



I just meant the atikpatcher was in it lol



trog100 said:


> i tend to find equihash (zcash) is the most profitable to mine on my nvidia cards.. daggerhash and decred dont seem to produce as much..
> 
> bitcoin has took a nosedive today.. down about 600 dollars..
> 
> trog



No its most profitable on 1080's the 1060/1070/1070ti are all better on other algorithms


----------



## trog100 (Nov 7, 2017)

i just go on what i see.. running on my desktop machine i get to see whats going on quite often.. when i see low dollar figures and have a look at what algo is running more often than not its dagger..

but the whole thing isnt very consistent.. he he

currently my dollar return is as low as it ever is.. kinda sh-t.. and yep its running dagger decred.. 

trog


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## phill (Nov 7, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I just meant the atikpatcher was in it lol



Ah ha!!  So sorry...  Being very dumb at that point!!   I'll try it out tonight and see how I get on...  Here's hoping that I don't break it...!!



trog100 said:


> i just go on what i see.. running on my desktop machine i get to see whats going on quite often.. when i see low dollar figures and have a look at what algo is running more often than not its dagger..
> 
> but the whole thing isnt very consistent.. he he
> 
> ...



I've just left it running CryptoNight..  I think its just the best out there at the moment as dual mining doesn't/didn't seem to give me the turn around that Cryptonight did..  The power usage for the turn around is brilliant!


----------



## trog100 (Nov 7, 2017)

my money return varies by around 30 % up and down for no reason i can figure.. i just leave nicehash to it.. 

my power usage stays roughly the same.. 

trog


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 7, 2017)

phill said:


> So what needs changing for the cards to work better with a higher hash rate than what they are doing at the moment?  I'm not sure which or what bios my mate flashed all of my cards to, but I can and will find out for you   I have uploaded both of the roms I believe I'm using, one flashes to a 580 and the other 1750 strap for the ram timings I believe
> 
> At present I think I'm averaging about the 22 to 23MH a card depending on what I'm mining (ETC seems to be lower than ETH for example) but the temps etc seem to be very good, under 40C under full load.  I've not noticed today any drops in core or ram speed either...   What will your bios mod allow the cards to do?


sorry for the delay the 1750 bios is a modded bios the 580 one is not , is the 580 one in use because it would give lower hash rate I have modded it and attached it. i think you will need the pixel patcher to install drivers


----------



## phill (Nov 7, 2017)

trog100 said:


> my money return varies by around 30 % up and down for no reason i can figure.. i just leave nicehash to it..
> 
> my power usage stays roughly the same..
> 
> trog



When Nicehash with Cryptonight runs it runs at the same sort of power consumption, only the dual mining etc goes nuts with the power usage etc, sometimes over 1000w, which is no good if I'm not getting double the performance from the cards I feel...  I'm much the same Trog, I'll just leave it run and carry on! 



theoneandonlymrk said:


> sorry for the delay the 1750 bios is a modded bios the 580 one is not , is the 580 one in use because it would give lower hash rate I have modded it and attached it. i think you will need the pixel patcher to install drivers



I'm very grateful of the help, so I wasn't even close to worrying about the time!!  I am very very grateful for you making me a bios at all!!     I believe the bios in use is the 1750..  I believe my best mate flashed the card to a 580 (as originally they are 480's) and then put the strap on to it that way?  Should I install Pixel Patcher first and then mod one card and test and go from there?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 7, 2017)

phill said:


> When Nicehash with Cryptonight runs it runs at the same sort of power consumption, only the dual mining etc goes nuts with the power usage etc, sometimes over 1000w, which is no good if I'm not getting double the performance from the cards I feel...  I'm much the same Trog, I'll just leave it run and carry on!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm very grateful of the help, so I wasn't even close to worrying about the time!!  I am very very grateful for you making me a bios at all!!     I believe the bios in use is the 1750..  I believe my best mate flashed the card to a 580 (as originally they are 480's) and then put the strap on to it that way?  Should I install Pixel Patcher first and then mod one card and test and go from there?


Well if he modded the 580 bios into the 1750 bios your already set up right since your saying a friend has done this for you , your hashrate seams low at 23-24 so if it were me I would individually dump each cards bios then read them using Polaris bios editor v1.4 off github.

Check the last section of the 1750 memory strap ,copy and paste it to a notepad then compare it to the 2000 setting alsopasted to the notepad if they're the same its ok ,move onto the next card.

This is how i make sure.

In bios making i only changed you're memory strap but on mine I would also permanently set a lower core clock and higher memory clock.

I settled on one for 3 and a slightly different one for my pulses.

If you settle on some let me know ill do this for you.


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## phill (Nov 7, 2017)

Many thanks again   I might leave this till the weekend as I'm away tomorrow and back late Thursday night for work so I'd rather be able to leave it as it is for the minute, then I can hopefully give myself plenty of time over the weekend to have a look at it  

It did lock up earlier today whilst I was at work, a few dots over the screen so I've lowered the core and ram speeds down a little and I'll see how things go from there...  First time I've noticed it was this morning with a few pixels getting corrupt so I'm guessing that the memory clock might be a little on the high side..  If I need to lower it back, then that's not a problem...


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 7, 2017)

phill said:


> Many thanks again   I might leave this till the weekend as I'm away tomorrow and back late Thursday night for work so I'd rather be able to leave it as it is for the minute, then I can hopefully give myself plenty of time over the weekend to have a look at it
> 
> It did lock up earlier today whilst I was at work, a few dots over the screen so I've lowered the core and ram speeds down a little and I'll see how things go from there...  First time I've noticed it was this morning with a few pixels getting corrupt so I'm guessing that the memory clock might be a little on the high side..  If I need to lower it back, then that's not a problem...


What your discribing fits memory pushed a bit too far but I've found this only matters to a card with a monitor attached and in use , other not connected cards can be run higher.


----------



## phill (Nov 7, 2017)

Well I'm not surprised if the strap is straining the ram slightly on it, but if I have to keep it backed down, that's fine with me, it's still doing a very stand up job   Is it worth do you think, lowering the strap down or is that where some of the performance increase is with these cards?  I'm dead pleased with how well these cards have run, thankfully I bought them not long before the massive increase..  That said, Scan did manage to push the price up on them by £30 or more each when I did decide to buy them....


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 7, 2017)

phill said:


> Well I'm not surprised if the strap is straining the ram slightly on it, but if I have to keep it backed down, that's fine with me, it's still doing a very stand up job   Is it worth do you think, lowering the strap down or is that where some of the performance increase is with these cards?  I'm dead pleased with how well these cards have run, thankfully I bought them not long before the massive increase..  That said, Scan did manage to push the price up on them by £30 or more each when I did decide to buy them....


Well to be honest I'm not that clued up on your specific strix cards ie what memory is on it etc i flashed a Lot of bio's to my references and my pulses to find a better power limit mostly but the pulses where very awkward and didn't work well with some including its original bios modded in that no matter what i set and flashed they just didn't perform right i ended up using a pre modded msi nitro+ bios for a 580 due to everything working And performing how it should.

I can't explain why the pulses bios, modded didn't work(best guess msi no saphire sorry set shit timings all round to push miner specific cards that are the same shiz) but it could be similar to what you are seeing ,did anyone point you to the 480/580 conversion thread on another site , I'll look onit but im sure someone has sorted a bios for your card on there its pretty much a miner mod thread now.

Mods can i point to said thread?


----------



## phill (Nov 8, 2017)

I think the ram on the cards is Samsung based but I could be wrong..  

I'm not sure where my friend got the bios from, but I will try and ask him at some point  

The Global Rate seems to have dropped a little bit the last few days, I've worked out how long it'll take roughly to get me a Bitcoin and it's a couple years lol   Still I'd make a decent profit as it stands if I sell it...


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## trog100 (Nov 8, 2017)

phill..  my average daily bitcoin return is now 0.0024 per day.. what is yours.. ??

it was 0.0044 a couple of months back when i started.. if bitcoin keeps going up i doubt you or me will ever see a complete one.. he he

trog


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Nov 8, 2017)

Anyone posted this?



More than £200 million ($280 million) of the virtual currency, ether, has been lost after a developer accidentally deleted a vital part of the code while trying to fix a flaw to stop hackers.

Experts describe the error as a 'suicide', and predict that this loss is roughly 20 per cent of the entire Ethereum network.


In a blog post on its website, Parity wrote: 'It would seem that issue was triggered accidentally 6th Nov 2017 02:33:47 PM +UTC and subsequently a user suicided the library-turned-into-wallet, wiping out the library code which in turn rendered all multi-sig contracts unusable since their logic (any state-modifying function) was inside the library.

'This means that currently no funds can be moved out of the multi-sig wallets.'

If you are concerned about whether your wallet has been affected please visit this website


----------



## verycharbroiled (Nov 9, 2017)

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> More than £200 million ($280 million) of the virtual currency, ether, has been lost after a developer accidentally deleted a vital part of the code while trying to fix a flaw to stop hackers.
> 
> Experts describe the error as a 'suicide', and predict that this loss is roughly 20 per cent of the entire Ethereum network.



this is for the parity client only. mist, the official client, is not affected in any way.

from what i understand it wasnt a developer, it was a user that wound up taking control (_EDIT ie ownership_) of paritys multisig library code, turned it into a wallet, and suicided (_EDIT: ie deleted_) it, preventing parity multisig wallets created after june (july?) 20th 2017 from working, as they use that now nonexistant library. the bug was left over from the prior, rushed fix to the original parity multisig code that was hacked back in june or july.

the funds are stuck basically. a large chunk of that was gavin woods (heh fancy that as he is a bigshot in parity, helped found it i believe). mist wallets are unaffected. and i dont think its 20% of eth, that figure might be that 20% of the eth are in parity wallets, of which most are regular wallets so are unaffected.. or parity nodes are 20% of the network. unsure. but the actually supply of eth locked is <1% iirc.

this may or not be fixed in the next eth planned fork. its up to vitalik buterin, as this will could be viewed as another "bail out" which may not go over well for eth long term. after all it wasnt mist/ethereum tech that messed up it was a 3rd party client (parity) screwup.


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## phill (Nov 10, 2017)

trog100 said:


> phill..  my average daily bitcoin return is now 0.0024 per day.. what is yours.. ??
> 
> it was 0.0044 a couple of months back when i started.. if bitcoin keeps going up i doubt you or me will ever see a complete one.. he he
> 
> trog



I've been seeing some returns about the 0.0020 mark as an average maybe higher and lower.. If only I had started a few months back doing it lol  Well I can leave my miner on more if we have more sunnier days, I don't mind it when the electric is free! lol  We'll see how things go...  I'm up to 0.008 at the moment..  Hopefully getting into the hundredth's over the weekend if I can leave it running enough 

I was hoping something was going to happen with ETH as the difficulty doesn't seem to have dropped much since the massive drop in difficulty on the coin...


----------



## trog100 (Nov 10, 2017)

i am at 0.25 or a quarter of a coin.. that is for about 9 weeks mining 24/7.. 

that is with 10 x 1070 cards including my daily use desktop machine..

trog


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## phill (Nov 10, 2017)

I would have been a bit higher if I had known that I was mining to the wrong account for a few days and I've been told by my mate that I can't get the balance transferred to the account I'm using now..  Bit of a shame but not the end of the world   Would have bumped me up to 0.01 of a coin lol 

I've just got 6 480's working at the moment Trog, they seem to bench around the 800M/s mark according to the benchmark program in NiceHash....??  What are the 1070's like for it??  I do like the fast none of the cards now seem to hit 40C under load and I'm pulling about 630w   Rather pleased


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## trog100 (Nov 10, 2017)

my 8 card rig is pulling 1200 watts from the wall.. how hot they run depends on how fast the fans are spinning which is linked to the ambient.. the rig for want of a  better place to put it is in a caravan in my garden.. it does function rather like a 1000 watt room heater.. the caravan gets quit toasty inside with the doors and windows shut..

the cards run between  50 and 60 C with a pretty low fan speed..

there does seem to be quite a large difference in power usage between my rig and yours.. and its not the way around i would expect it to be..

trog


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## phill (Nov 10, 2017)

My miner is in the living room with the windows on a latch and the heating turned off or it's over the threshold of where it would come on (about the 17C/18C mark) and it just sits there   I think idle the miner uses 95w with all the fans off, then about 120w with the 18 fans on the cards running and the CPU crunching away as well   I can post up a few screen shots or pics of the wattage meter if you'd like??


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## phill (Nov 10, 2017)

Have you seen this yet Trog??  https://www.coinwarz.com/difficulty-charts/bitcoin-difficulty-chart

Maybe it might be getting easier for us??  I see Bitcoin is down about $1000 so I'm not sure that will help us much but..  My total a day is about $10 if I'm lucky now lol


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## trog100 (Nov 10, 2017)

we dont actually mine bitcoin phil.. we mine whatever hicehash thinks is best.. this then gets used to buy bitcoin.. least i think that is how it works.. 

bitcoin going down just mean you get more of it.. which long term is a good thing.. bitcoin going up too much too soon is not a good thing..  

trog


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## phill (Nov 10, 2017)

I thought that might have been a bit too easy!! Well I wish I knew what was happening with the fact I'm only making a tenner a day...  Damn pee poor that is....


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## hat (Nov 10, 2017)

That's right when btc goes up we actually get paid less because we get paid in btc. Say we mine ETH with nicehash at $1 per day and btc is worth $1. We get 1 btc per day. Tomorrow btc is worth $2, but still only mining ETH at $1 per day. Now we get paid .5 btc. It's still worth the same $1, just less btc. As a side effect the one btc we got paid already before it went up to $2 is now worth $2 instead of the $1 it was worth when it was paid to us yesterday.

When the value of btc changes, the value of the btc we already earned changes. It doesn't really effect what we're earning right here and now.


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## yotano211 (Nov 10, 2017)

When people mine zcash, does zcash like faster memory speed or graphics core speed. 

I just got a killer deal on 6 1080s to add to my mining machines but I dont mine zcash, I only mine ethereum and 1080s doesnt like ethereum.


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## hat (Nov 10, 2017)

That's equihash right? To me it seems to be affected by both.


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## cdawall (Nov 11, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> When people mine zcash, does zcash like faster memory speed or graphics core speed.
> 
> I just got a killer deal on 6 1080s to add to my mining machines but I dont mine zcash, I only mine ethereum and 1080s doesnt like ethereum.



More core speed than memory but memory is important


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## trog100 (Nov 11, 2017)

my 1070 cards are currently running a core boost of around 1800 mhrz with a power setting of 95%.. i have a +600 on the memory..

the power setting limits the boost.. if i turn it down the boost goes down.. but so does the hash output.. my machine seems to divide its time between etherium and zcash..

zchash does seem to produce the best dollar return.. i may turn off daggerhash just to see..

trog

ps.. equihash is subject to spikes in the zcash price which is what makes me thinks it produces more than it really does.. if i see a real high its always equihash running.. dagger is more consistent..

ps 2.. my 10 x 1070 cards (two rigs) are now producing on average 0.0025 bitcoin per day.. this will take about one year and one month to produce one whole bitcoin..

the bitcoin payout per day is directly related to the price of bitcoin.. it suits me if it dosnt rocket up too quickly.. he he..

it would be interesting to see what happens if the price of zcash shoots up..


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## trog100 (Nov 11, 2017)

phill said:


> I thought that might have been a bit too easy!! Well I wish I knew what was happening with the fact I'm only making a tenner a day...  Damn pee poor that is....



i think you are getting about what you should be getting phil.. the current mining return is pretty crappy.. thats just how it is.. 

trog


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## phill (Nov 11, 2017)

I think that Bitcoin seems to be taking a nose dive and from what I've read that Bitcoin Cash seem to be taking over??

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin-cash/
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/

It seems that ETC has also had a price raise and also a difficulty raise of nearly 100%...  https://www.coinwarz.com/difficulty-charts/ethereum-classic-difficulty-chart

I think my current pay is about the 0.0014 as I've turned my miner off for a few hours, I think it's dropped a little but it was around the 0.002 mark..  I'll see if it changes much


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## fullinfusion (Nov 11, 2017)

I'm seeing in my towns for sale site all kinds of gpu's for sale and even Ant miners.. Makes me wonder because 3 months ago any gpu that went online for sale here was snatched up in just a very short time... now its flooded and nobody is buying.


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## phill (Nov 11, 2017)

@ cdawall - I've installed the ATIpacker and the blockchain drivers but I've lost all control over the core speeds and memory speeds ...  It seems like I might be going back to the drivers I was on as since I can't change the cards speeds, the wattage usage has flown high...

I'm guessing something is going to happen to Bitcoin and the other coins..  That said, ETC has nearly doubled in price these last few days...


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## yotano211 (Nov 11, 2017)

fullinfusion said:


> I'm seeing in my towns for sale site all kinds of gpu's for sale and even Ant miners.. Makes me wonder because 3 months ago any gpu that went online for sale here was snatched up in just a very short time... now its flooded and nobody is buying.


The prices on ebay are normal so I dont see any or much market flood.


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## cdawall (Nov 11, 2017)

phill said:


> @ cdawall - I've installed the ATIpacker and the blockchain drivers but I've lost all control over the core speeds and memory speeds ...  It seems like I might be going back to the drivers I was on as since I can't change the cards speeds, the wattage usage has flown high...
> 
> I'm guessing something is going to happen to Bitcoin and the other coins..  That said, ETC has nearly doubled in price these last few days...



Why are you adjusting anything in windows. Fix your bios stop using software bandaids. All of my amd bios are plug and play for a reason you can set every single part from wattage to max clockspeed to timings.


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## phill (Nov 11, 2017)

So I have to flash the cards as well to get back control as well do I?  I thought before you just mentioned installing the patch and block chain software?


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## cdawall (Nov 12, 2017)

Now I could do for some of these. Price is stupid, but I love the design


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## silkstone (Nov 12, 2017)

I just ordered another 1060 3gb card to mine ZEC. A little late in the game, but at 0% interest for 12 months, I pay about $15 a month, which is about equal to the return generated by the card.
It'll bring my total hash over 1K/h for the first time with  2x1060, 1x7870 and 1x1080 

I only have about $700 of CC so far, but for about $200 of electricity cost it's worth it. I should really consider selling some of it though to subsidize the equipment. My problem is, I always end up selling on lows


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## trog100 (Nov 12, 2017)

to use a term i came across recently.. is there doing to be a "flippening".. is bitcoin cash going to swap places with bitcoin and become the top crypo dog..

and what the f-ck do we do if nicehash continues to pay out in the loser of the two.. he he.. 

trog


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## phill (Nov 13, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> sorry for the delay the 1750 bios is a modded bios the 580 one is not , is the 580 one in use because it would give lower hash rate I have modded it and attached it. i think you will need the pixel patcher to install drivers





theoneandonlymrk said:


> Well if he modded the 580 bios into the 1750 bios your already set up right since your saying a friend has done this for you , your hashrate seams low at 23-24 so if it were me I would individually dump each cards bios then read them using Polaris bios editor v1.4 off github.
> 
> Check the last section of the 1750 memory strap ,copy and paste it to a notepad then compare it to the 2000 setting alsopasted to the notepad if they're the same its ok ,move onto the next card.
> 
> ...



I had a try over the weekend to flash the bios of the card, but for some reason it came up with an error that the bios already exists and was unable to flash...

Since then I've had a mess about with drivers and all sorts which it has become a right pain in butt to sort but eventually before I went to bed last night it's all back up and running with the original drivers I was using..

I've done a load of testing with the power draw, the hashrates with the different drivers and found out a few things but I'll try and report back after work today  

At the moment the Global rate now seems to be nearly the 2.0 mark this morning so it's a load better than it was on Saturday when it was about the 1.4 mark...  Here's hoping that the market will sort itself out and Bitcoin will be back where it was..  I'm really not sure what is going on with the Bitcoin Cash thing but keeping an eye to things..  I kinda wished I'd sold my ETH and ETC as they peaked rather well..  Shame that but oh well


----------



## Papahyooie (Nov 13, 2017)

I'm kind of new to the game. Can anyone tell me what's up with the wild swings in profitability? I use nicehash, and I average around $4-5 a day. Not a huge amount, but it gives me something to pay attention to. Last night, all of my cards were running equihash, and all of a sudden for a few hours, nicehash reported my profitability skyrocketed to over $12 an hour. My 970 and R9 270 got a bit of a bump in hashrate, but my 980ti was fairly consistent with its normal production. Still didn't look like the small increase in hashrate could account for more than double the profitability. It doesn't look like zcash or bitcoin had a huge spike in value around that time... 

Did anyone else see this happen last night? It was around 9-11 pm central time. I'd sure like to replicate it if it's something on my end lol.


----------



## toilet pepper (Nov 13, 2017)

Papahyooie said:


> I'm kind of new to the game. Can anyone tell me what's up with the wild swings in profitability? I use nicehash, and I average around $4-5 a day. Not a huge amount, but it gives me something to pay attention to. Last night, all of my cards were running equihash, and all of a sudden for a few hours, nicehash reported my profitability skyrocketed to over $12 an hour. My 970 and R9 270 got a bit of a bump in hashrate, but my 980ti was fairly consistent with its normal production. Still didn't look like the small increase in hashrate could account for more than double the profitability. It doesn't look like zcash or bitcoin had a huge spike in value around that time...
> 
> Did anyone else see this happen last night? It was around 9-11 pm central time. I'd sure like to replicate it if it's something on my end lol.



Bitcoin Gold just started and it uses equihash algo. A lot of people bought hashpower from nicehash to mine bitcoin gold until the difficulty went up. Same thing happened with Electroneum.


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## trog100 (Nov 13, 2017)

shame it never lasted a bit longer.. he he

trog

ps.. UK time.. and equihash is sill doing relatively well..


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## Papahyooie (Nov 13, 2017)

I see. I didn't realize that Bitcoin gold used equihash as well. (It's so ridiculous trying to keep up all the algos...) I saw that Bitcoin Gold had a spike yesterday, but it doesn't really correspond to when I saw my spike. I guess that just happened to be when I personally got a contract for it.


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## phill (Nov 13, 2017)

Just checking up on mine (gotta love Teamviewer...) and it's hitting a constant 2.0+ for the global rate, so I'm rather happy there..  Same sort of speed mind, 4.5kH/s for CryptoNight...  About $13.30 a day according to this..  I think Bitcoin has gone up a little bit today hasn't it?


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## hat (Nov 13, 2017)

I saw the spike last night as well. I was up over $18/day with two 1070s running equihash. I knew it wouldn't last, but it was nice while it lasted. This morning when I checked I was back on DH/Pascal dual mining.


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## phill (Nov 13, 2017)

I'm not hitting anywhere near $18 a day that's for sure but then I'm only using Cryptonight as I seem to be making more with that than mining ETH or ETC direct, so I just stick with it   What else do you have running hat?  Two 1070's total?


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## cdawall (Nov 13, 2017)

For those who missed just how high it got last night.


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## phill (Nov 13, 2017)

That is some crazy payments right there


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## yotano211 (Nov 13, 2017)

I think baby approves


----------



## dhklopp (Nov 13, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> I think baby approves


Either that or he/she is shitting itself.


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## hat (Nov 13, 2017)

phill said:


> I'm not hitting anywhere near $18 a day that's for sure but then I'm only using Cryptonight as I seem to be making more with that than mining ETH or ETC direct, so I just stick with it   What else do you have running hat?  Two 1070's total?


Pretty much. I also run it on my i5 2400 (cryptonight) bit that only adds 40 cents or so...


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## phill (Nov 14, 2017)

That's very impressive then if it's two cards getting that sort of return   Hat's off to you sir!!


----------



## hat (Nov 14, 2017)

It was only due to the spike. I'm now back down to roughly $4/day which has been the norm for quite some time now.


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## phill (Nov 14, 2017)

Still not a bad thing, as long as it covers the electric


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## fullinfusion (Nov 23, 2017)

Any help on mining with Vega?

I'm trying to use NiceHash but these drivers just quit even at stock.. Is there something I need to edit in the nicehash files?


----------



## phill (Nov 23, 2017)

I'm on RX 480's and I doubt very much I'll be changing over to another card.  

Have you tried the benchmark bit and then putting it on precise?  (If you not done already)  Has it run for any time at all?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 23, 2017)

fullinfusion said:


> Any help on mining with Vega?
> 
> I'm trying to use NiceHash but these drivers just quit even at stock.. Is there something I need to edit in the nicehash files?


Strange im on the latest betas and my vega will do some happily but definitely not all , what version of nicehash im in 1.8.1.5, my cards doing eth/libry and crypto night , tick all algos run all benches hopefully that will open some doors.


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## fullinfusion (Nov 23, 2017)

phill said:


> I'm on RX 480's and I doubt very much I'll be changing over to another card.
> 
> Have you tried the benchmark bit and then putting it on precise?  (If you not done already)  Has it run for any time at all?


Precise ends up slamming the gpu driver and once pulls back the cards @100% even after the miner is turned off..

It was more of an experiment then anything else but thanks.. I wonder how much electricity I wasted last night letting it bench and have it fail...


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 23, 2017)

fullinfusion said:


> Precise ends up slamming the gpu driver and once pulls back the cards @100% even after the miner is turned off..
> 
> It was more of an experiment then anything else but thanks.. I wonder how much electricity I wasted last night letting it bench and have it fail...


Well on reasonable settings of 1100core@1080mv 1100 memory and 5% power slider mine earns £2.40 (41-42mh/+86mh/s?? not 100% on that)sa day and pulls about 180-195 watts for that i calculated it costs about 67p-90p a day to run but that's just the gpu.

After checking its dagger/lybri on Claymore or crypto night on Claymore that pay  atm


----------



## phill (Nov 24, 2017)

I was going to say for 6 GPU's running ETC/ETH I'm pulling about 760w from the wall, but when I run Cryptonight it pulls 630w..  That's including all the extra fans I have in the system and the 18 fans that are on the cards..  I work it as a 15p a unit (roughly) and then I work it out to being about £1.60 a day..  Thing is running ETC and ETH the payout is absolute rubbish..  I think if I mine 1/4 of an ETC coin, I can pocket about $2 lol  For Cryptonight I can get at least 4 or 5 times that amount at the moment...  Shocking....


----------



## trog100 (Nov 24, 2017)

my 8 x 1070 card rig pulls around 1200 watts from the wall.. just letting nicehash do its own thing  its producing around 18 dollars per day.. or just over .002 BTC per day..

my dollar return has gone up a bit... my bitcoin return has gone down a lot.. as the price goes up the amount you get for whatever nicehash is mining goes down..

my two card desktop machine produces close to 5 dollars per day but that does include the cpu mining as well..

my machines mostly mine equihash or dagger/decred.. both have become more profitable..

in the nearly three months they have been mining my wallet shows $2300 -ish or between 1/4 and 1/3 bitcoin..

i am quite happy with what i am seeing.. but a large chunk of my wallet comes from bitcoin going up in price.. mining on its own aint worth much..

trog


----------



## phill (Nov 24, 2017)

I think you have a slightly better return from the 8 1070's as I think mine's getting about .00015 ish or so, depending if I let it run all day or not (trying to get a pay out from ETC at the moment so most of the time I run that for the moment) I'm still using Cryptonight but yeah mining will take about 2 years constantly to gain myself a Bitcoin..  But it's still much more profitable than ETH or ETC..


----------



## trog100 (Nov 24, 2017)

the thing is phil nobody knows just what one single bitcoin will be worth in two years time.. he he

at the rate you and i are mining them we may never get a whole one.. 

i recon i will have 1/3 of one coin by christmas.. purely guesswork on my part but i recon my stash will be at $3500 and one bitcoin will be worth £10.000 but who the f-ck knows.. 


trog


----------



## phill (Nov 24, 2017)

Damn true Trog...  Plus 6 RX 480 cards v 8 1070 cards, little bit more of a performance difference I think   I think the average hashrate for the 6 cards are about 4.5kH/s...? What sort of speeds are you hitting Trog with 8 1070's?


----------



## trog100 (Nov 24, 2017)

i am not quite sure how to measure them phil..  currently my desktop rig (two cards) is showing $6.6 dollars (very high) and 879 H/s in equihash (normal) ..

the $6.6 dollars has now gone up to $6.73..   why.. i havnt a clue..

trog


----------



## phill (Nov 24, 2017)

I thought on the running screen when you load NiceHash, it shows the hashrate as an average over the GPU's you have installed in the system?  I think it's top left where you have an average on the right and then a 5 second rate on the left hand side?  

Do you have just Nivida cards Trog?  No AMD's if I recall? (I can't remember if I have asked the question or not!  My apologises if I have!)


----------



## Papahyooie (Nov 24, 2017)

I'm going to be picking up another GPU soon (basically putting my earnings into more cards to kind of snowball effect.) I'm using nicehash, and 99% of the time it's mining with equihash. I'm looking at grabbing a 1060. Does anyone have any experience with whether or not it is worth it to wait and spend a bit more on a 6gb model? Or is the 3gb model fine? From what I've been reading, it seems the 6gb is only very slightly faster than the 3gb. Then again, I remember for some currencies at least, 3gb is a dangerous investment because they won't be able to mine soon. (But I think this was only for ETH maybe?) I see so much different information out on the web. Any advice?


----------



## phill (Nov 28, 2017)

Hey Trog, I think the Bitcoin value might be helping us with the mining this week!!  Sadly I'm finishing off mining ETC to get the next payout and then I'm stopping and switching to NiceHash again..  I think I'll be steering clear of ETC and ETH...


----------



## silkstone (Nov 28, 2017)

Papahyooie said:


> I'm going to be picking up another GPU soon (basically putting my earnings into more cards to kind of snowball effect.) I'm using nicehash, and 99% of the time it's mining with equihash. I'm looking at grabbing a 1060. Does anyone have any experience with whether or not it is worth it to wait and spend a bit more on a 6gb model? Or is the 3gb model fine? From what I've been reading, it seems the 6gb is only very slightly faster than the 3gb. Then again, I remember for some currencies at least, 3gb is a dangerous investment because they won't be able to mine soon. (But I think this was only for ETH maybe?) I see so much different information out on the web. Any advice?



I did the same, but got a 1080Ti, cashed out $300 worth. I'm debating whether or not to sell the 1080 I have, or just sell 2 months of profits to make up the difference amount of cash I put down. My other problem at the moment, is that the 1080 in the case with the 1080Ti really stifles airflow and while my 1080 will stick to 65C at the hashrate I want, the 1080Ti is up at 78C and 600 Sol/s (with a house fan blowing over them) compared to 68C and 720 Sol/s with good airflow. I really need to get a big Z68/Z77 board with more space between the x16 slots. I found one for about $60, but I really don't want to invest any more more money right now 

Nvidia cards generally earn as much from mining ZEC as ETH. For ZEC there is no NAG, so no memory limitations.

I get around 270 sol/s on my 1060 3gb at 85% TDP. For me, it was a no-brainer. A 3gb card was $220 where a 6gb card was ~$330. As I won't really game on it, the difference in memory makes no difference to me and it is a nice little HTPC card.


----------



## Papahyooie (Nov 28, 2017)

silkstone said:


> I did the same, but got a 1080Ti, cashed out $300 worth. I'm debating whether or not to sell the 1080 I have, or just sell 2 months of profits to make up the difference amount of cash I put down. My other problem at the moment, is that the 1080 in the case with the 1080Ti really stifles airflow and while my 1080 will stick to 65C at the hashrate I want, the 1080Ti is up at 78C and 600 Sol/s (with a house fan blowing over them) compared to 68C and 720 Sol/s with good airflow. I really need to get a big Z68/Z77 board with more space between the x16 slots. I found one for about $60, but I really don't want to invest any more more money right now
> 
> Nvidia cards generally earn as much from mining ZEC as ETH. For ZEC there is no NAG, so no memory limitations.
> 
> I get around 270 sol/s on my 1060 3gb at 85% TDP. For me, it was a no-brainer. A 3gb card was $220 where a 6gb card was ~$330. As I won't really game on it, the difference in memory makes no difference to me and it is a nice little HTPC card.



Yea that makes sense since ZEC has no DAG that has to be held in memory. I'm thinking I'll probably go ahead and get a 3gb to start the snowball running quicker. 

For your temp problems, an easy and cheap way would be to get PCI-express risers and hang them on something outside the case. That way you can spread them out at will and make sure they get enough fresh air.


----------



## cdawall (Nov 28, 2017)

So I did a thing. Best $55 I have spent in a long time.


----------



## phill (Nov 28, 2017)

Did it help with the temps??


----------



## cdawall (Nov 28, 2017)

Yep turns out directed airflow and being evenly spaced is a good thing?


----------



## phill (Nov 28, 2017)

I have a few fans like you have your bigger fan there, seems to work very well for the temps, max of around 40 ish depending on coin and ambient 

Only question is, how much does the fan cost to run?? lol


----------



## EdInk (Nov 28, 2017)

QUOTE="cdawall, post: 3748385, member: 28601"]It is definitely affected by memory clocks.

1070 pulls a full 100h/s more than a 1080.[/QUOTE]

How does your GTX1080 pull 86W?


----------



## cdawall (Nov 28, 2017)

EdInk said:


> How does your GTX1080 pull 86W?



It is mining cryptonight which is more memory intensive than anything else. Those cards were also heavily tweaked for power efficiency vs clock rate. I think they were running 50-55% TDP in that because it made no hashrate difference.


----------



## yotano211 (Nov 28, 2017)

cdawall said:


> It is mining cryptonight which is more memory intensive than anything else. Those cards were also heavily tweaked for power efficiency vs clock rate. I think they were running 50-55% TDP in that because it made no hashrate difference.


Wow that low. The 1070s I have mining ETH are at 70% TDP. 6 1070s pull 760watts at 70% with 1200w psu gold rated


----------



## cdawall (Nov 28, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Wow that low. The 1070s I have mining ETH are at 70% TDP. 6 1070s pull 760watts at 70% with 1200w psu gold rated



It is just that algo. The 1070's are a little higher in it because the memory is faster and the GPU is utilized more a 1080 performs just better than a 1060 in cryptonight and wattage about matches that.


----------



## silkstone (Nov 28, 2017)

Papahyooie said:


> Yea that makes sense since ZEC has no DAG that has to be held in memory. I'm thinking I'll probably go ahead and get a 3gb to start the snowball running quicker.
> 
> For your temp problems, an easy and cheap way would be to get PCI-express risers and hang them on something outside the case. That way you can spread them out at will and make sure they get enough fresh air.



Yeah, I don't really want to go with an external setup for just 1-2 cards yet. I'm going to see if the ASRock board I was looking at is still available this weekend: https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z68 Extreme4/index.asp.

It can switch the positions of the 1080 and 1080Ti in that which should allow better airflow as the 1080ti is like 2.5 slots vs. the 2 slots of the 1080.

I wish I could go earlier, but the weekend is the only time I can get to where that guy lives


----------



## hat (Nov 29, 2017)

Papahyooie said:


> I'm going to be picking up another GPU soon (basically putting my earnings into more cards to kind of snowball effect.) I'm using nicehash, and 99% of the time it's mining with equihash. I'm looking at grabbing a 1060. Does anyone have any experience with whether or not it is worth it to wait and spend a bit more on a 6gb model? Or is the 3gb model fine? From what I've been reading, it seems the 6gb is only very slightly faster than the 3gb. Then again, I remember for some currencies at least, 3gb is a dangerous investment because they won't be able to mine soon. (But I think this was only for ETH maybe?) I see so much different information out on the web. Any advice?


I'm no expert but I think the 1060 3gb will do fine for equihash. You are right, ETH (DaggerHashimoto) is the very vram intensive one.


----------



## yotano211 (Nov 29, 2017)

The current calculator says that you should be fine with a 3gb 1060 until April of 2018.


----------



## trog100 (Nov 29, 2017)

"the thing is phil nobody knows just what one single bitcoin will be worth in two years time.. he he

at the rate you and i are mining them we may never get a whole one.. 

i recon i will have 1/3 of one coin by christmas.. purely guesswork on my part but i recon my stash will be at $3500 and one bitcoin will be worth £10.000 but who the f-ck knows.." 

###

to quote myself from just a few days back..

the figures have changed a little ..   my bitcoin stash is now at $3300  dollars and a bitcoin is currently just under $11000 dollars..

by Christmas a bitcoin could be at $15000 dollars and my stash maybe at $6000 dollars.. its easily possible.. he he

trog

ps.. bitcoin has gone up by a $1000 in less than one day.. which means my 1/3 of a bitcoin stash has gone up by around $300 dollars.. the money isnt in mining this sh-t.. its simply in owning it..


----------



## phill (Nov 29, 2017)

It sure is, but I plan on just mining it since as you point out, what it might be worth or could be worth might not be worth a penny..  At least mining it won't cost me too much but it might take a while to gain a bit of a share in it lol  

How much are you making a day now?  Still the same amount??


----------



## trog100 (Nov 29, 2017)

my last daily nicehash payout phil was .00234.. or around $25 dollars.. as the bitcoin price goes up the amount you get in bitcoin terms goes down.. my bitcoin payout has  been as high as .0044 and has low has $14 dollars.. he he..

at the beginning of this month i bought some etherium (4) and litecoin (15) .. not all at once cos i have a cash limit on what i can buy.. but i have spent £1900 quid over the month (roughly a grand on each coin) and they now worth around £2500.. i am rather hoping litecoin will do what bitcoin has done.. he he

my thinking was simple.. both etherium and litecoin had not gone up much over the time i had been watching prices and i thought it was about time for them to take a jump up and they did.. my thinking was right.. 

my current thinking is the top rated coins are heading for the moon.. big money (and maybe fools) will buy into them big time.. the price just has to keep going up..

trog

ps.. etherium and litecoin have both just taken another nice 10% jump.. make my £2500 into £2750..


----------



## cdawall (Nov 29, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> The current calculator says that you should be fine with a 3gb 1060 until April of 2018.



I would rather mine electroneum or monero with them right now anyway.


----------



## phill (Nov 29, 2017)

trog100 said:


> my last daily nicehash payout phil was .00234.. or around $25 dollars.. as the bitcoin price goes up the amount you get in bitcoin terms goes down.. my bitcoin payout has  been as high as .0044 and has low has $14 dollars.. he he..
> 
> at the beginning of this month i bought some etherium (4) and litecoin (15) .. not all at once cos i have a cash limit on what i can buy.. but i have spent £1900 quid over the month (roughly a grand on each coin) and they now worth around £2500.. i am rather hoping litecoin will do what bitcoin has done.. he he
> 
> ...



Mate and I recently sold off 4.5 ETH coins and today it just jumped over the $500 mark a coin which is a bit of a shame, but within the hour of using that to buy Bitcoin, Bitcoin had gone up another $400 or so, I didn't feel so bad!!    I'm hoping that it doesn't crash and burn as combined now we are gonna be hitting the 0.6 of a Bitcoin, so I'm hoping for a lot   But it's just the feeling of having started with nothing to be having this much, it's brilliant 

I'll have a look at my payouts a bit later on as since ETC has rocketed in difficulty, I'm just going to see if I can wait it out a bit before I start back on it to get to my next payout and then stop, then just stick to Bitcoin..   I hope it pays off


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## yotano211 (Nov 29, 2017)

BTC is going to crash hard, goes up and up and up...........


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## phill (Nov 29, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> BTC is going to crash hard, goes up and up and up...........



I hope it does, then I can buy some back right before it crashes   Here's hoping anyways


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## Vayra86 (Nov 29, 2017)

trog100 said:


> my last daily nicehash payout phil was .00234.. or around $25 dollars.. as the bitcoin price goes up the amount you get in bitcoin terms goes down.. my bitcoin payout has  been as high as .0044 and has low has $14 dollars.. he he..
> 
> at the beginning of this month i bought some etherium (4) and litecoin (15) .. not all at once cos i have a cash limit on what i can buy.. but i have spent £1900 quid over the month (roughly a grand on each coin) and they now worth around £2500.. i am rather hoping litecoin will do what bitcoin has done.. he he
> 
> ...



You know what, reading this, I got to thinking.

What if EA pushed the lootboxes into crypto mining?


----------



## R-T-B (Nov 29, 2017)

Vayra86 said:


> What if EA pushed the lootboxes into crypto mining?



What does that even mean? 

I mean really.  The block reward gets you a free Darth Vadar avatar?


----------



## yotano211 (Nov 29, 2017)

Vayra86 said:


> You know what, reading this, I got to thinking.
> 
> What if EA pushed the lootboxes into crypto mining?


If EA gets into mining they will just ruin mining altogether.


----------



## trog100 (Nov 29, 2017)

BTC just took a near £2000 dollar dive.. its back up over 10000 now.. today  has been kind of wiped out.. 

my ether and litecoin have done something similar.. but they will soon go up again.. he he

trog


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## phill (Nov 29, 2017)

I noticed a bit of a drop, just after I transferred a load into BTC lol Had to happen I guess...  Only when I don't wait I loose a little lol  Meh, I look at it as that I've not technically lost anything as I never really had it to begin with  I suppose I could have gained a little more bitcoin when I transferred it over but meh  

All's fair in love and Bitcoin....


----------



## Papahyooie (Nov 29, 2017)

I think the dip today was more of a correction. There was a bit of mania yesterday, then apparently enough people decided they'd made enough to sell which caused a miniature panic for a few minutes where it dropped back down to 8k. But then back up over 9k after it leveled out. 

That being said, if that's all the bad that happens for a correction, then that's a good thing. Means we still have stable growth, and all the doom and gloom bitcoin haters who say the bubble will burst and bitcoin will be worthless are. at least at the moment, wrong.


----------



## phill (Nov 30, 2017)

Here's waiting to see what it will be like in a day or weeks time... 

Each of the coins I follow have dropped heavily today, ETH down $100, ETC down $10, Bitcoin down $2000...  Still, I can't say I'm even remotely worried, unless by the morning it's around the $5.00 mark... lol But at that point I think I might spend some of my own actual cash and see if it goes up from there...   Oh the fun and excitement we have


----------



## trog100 (Nov 30, 2017)

i think the system broke for a while.. coinbase went down.. 

the rise to 11000 wasnt expected.. this caused a massive rush to sell because these so called corrections are not really corrections they are a deliberate attempt to make money.. there were a whole bunch of computers all set up to sell at lets say just over 10000 dollars this triggers the so called correction.. the same computers then buy back in at the bottom.. lets call that 9400..

i recon this time the swing was so violent with so much buying and selling going on the system kind of broke.. he he..

trog


----------



## R0H1T (Nov 30, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> If EA gets into mining they will just ruin mining altogether.


Well then let's hope EA goes into cryptomining, kill 2 birds with zero stones 

Crash'n burn


----------



## R-T-B (Nov 30, 2017)

R0H1T said:


> Well then let's hope EA goes into cryptomining, kill 2 birds with zero stones
> 
> Crash'n burn



How about we don't threadshit on an activity some of us partake in and enjoy.


----------



## dorsetknob (Nov 30, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> If EA gets into mining they will just ruin mining altogether.





R-T-B said:


> How about we don't threadshit on an activity some of us partake in and enjoy.



With the majority of games running/using the Steam interphase and with Steam as a major market place Distributor
I am quite sure steam would have a significant veto in this "in my Opinion Stupid idea"

EA or any game house or Supplier would not risk Alienating one of their major Game Distributor and risk distribution of games being blocked or withdrawn


----------



## cdawall (Nov 30, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i think the system broke for a while.. coinbase went down..
> 
> the rise to 11000 wasnt expected.. this caused a massive rush to sell because these so called corrections are not really corrections they are a deliberate attempt to make money.. there were a whole bunch of computers all set up to sell at lets say just over 10000 dollars this triggers the so called correction.. the same computers then buy back in at the bottom.. lets call that 9400..
> 
> ...



300000 new accounts on coinbase plus the high selling rate is why it crashed. A whole shit ton of people bought and sold when it went over 9000.


----------



## Vayra86 (Nov 30, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> How about we don't threadshit on an activity some of us partake in and enjoy.



It was merely a funny stab at the gambling aspect of crypto, surprisingly nobody picked up on that.


----------



## phill (Nov 30, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i think the system broke for a while.. coinbase went down..
> 
> the rise to 11000 wasnt expected.. this caused a massive rush to sell because these so called corrections are not really corrections they are a deliberate attempt to make money.. there were a whole bunch of computers all set up to sell at lets say just over 10000 dollars this triggers the so called correction.. the same computers then buy back in at the bottom.. lets call that 9400..
> 
> ...



I was daft and bought when it went over $10000 lol  Bad timing but hey, nearly 0.6 coins later we are good to go!! 

I'm just holding out and seeing what happens with a bit of mining to help a little bit as it's still way more profitable than trying ETC and ETH..  Looking back on the screenshots that I have for when we started, man what a turn around from what it was to what it was...


----------



## R-T-B (Nov 30, 2017)

Vayra86 said:


> It was merely a funny stab at the gambling aspect of crypto, surprisingly nobody picked up on that.



I was refering more to the idea that crypto should "crash n burn"

Crypto isn't gambling because you get exactly what you pay for.  You shouldn't count on market values.


----------



## trog100 (Nov 30, 2017)

something more than just a "correction" has just happened.. what puzzles me is how a whole bunch of coins take a 20% dive all at exactly the same time.. i always try and figure out why but this time it may take some time to get back up over the 10000 levels and stay there..

trog


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## phill (Nov 30, 2017)

What ever happens Trog, I'll be waiting for a while till it goes north of $12k before I even consider selling anything lol   I wish I had waited but like with everything, when do you know something is going to happen and it's going to take such a dive..  Meh, it's free money so I'm not so worried about not getting masses for my cash


----------



## cdawall (Nov 30, 2017)

trog100 said:


> something more than just a "correction" has just happened.. what puzzles me is how a whole bunch of coins take a 20% dive all at exactly the same time.. i always try and figure out why but this time it may take some time to get back up over the 10000 levels and stay there..
> 
> trog



Do you have a financial degree? If not how do you determine what the correct value of a currency is?


----------



## Papahyooie (Nov 30, 2017)

trog100 said:


> something more than just a "correction" has just happened.. what puzzles me is how a whole bunch of coins take a 20% dive all at exactly the same time.. i always try and figure out why but this time it may take some time to get back up over the 10000 levels and stay there..
> 
> trog


I think the fact that it dove so far so fast proves that it's a "correction." If you look at the value curve over the past year, it's exactly where it should be if you aggregated it into a smooth curve. The huge boom over the past week is an outlier. At the low 9k is where it would be if the curve were smoothed out. That means the market has corrected the mania that happened recently, and it is now closer to its true value. I think it will stabilize at low 9ks and grow regularly from there as it has over the year. (until the next bubble and bust of course.) As said above (whether automated or not) plenty of people were telling themselves they'd sell at 10k. That's the "cause."


----------



## notb (Nov 30, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Do you have a financial degree? If not how do you determine what the correct value of a currency is?


Why would you need a degree in finance to evaluate a cryptocurrency? It's not a currency and its value has little to do with currency-related theories.
It's a commodity - like oil and coal.


----------



## R0H1T (Nov 30, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> I was refering more to the idea that *crypto should* "*crash n burn*"
> 
> Crypto isn't gambling because you get exactly what you pay for.  You shouldn't count on market values.


That's because crypto currencies have created an almost parallel/shadow monetary system. Add to that it's a bubble like no others in recent times ~ Novogratz: Cryptocurrencies are ‘going to be the biggest bubble of our lifetimes’

The only ones benefiting atm are miners, early adopters who're still invested in BTC, ETH et al & speculators with lots of money. I realize there's probably conflict of interest wrt what *Novogratz* is predicting, but there's no doubt that there'd be lots of unintended casualties when this bubble pops off, like they all do eventually!


----------



## cdawall (Nov 30, 2017)

notb said:


> Why would you need a degree in finance to evaluate a cryptocurrency? It's not a currency and its value has little to do with currency-related theories.
> It's a commodity - like oil and coal.



Eh...I don't pay for anything using oil and coil. It is a functioning currency for a surprisingly large number of companies. Day trading cryptocurrency is no different than trading any other currency and it bubbles like a fiat currency (which is also based off of nothing physical).

My point was he has next to no experience in much of anything that has to do with currency let alone crypto, so his opinion that this wasn't a correction is worth about as much as the annoying "he he he" thing he does after posts.


----------



## trog100 (Nov 30, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Do you have a financial degree? If not how do you determine what the correct value of a currency is?



the value of something is what someone is prepared to pay for it.. a financial degree wont help with that.. he he..

i saw a break (change) in the crypto uptrend pattern.. the kick down and straight back up again plus a bit has not happened this time.. i also see signs of manipulation.. too many currencies moving in exact lock step with each other.. i see signs of fishy goings on.. he he

trog

my crpyto experience is very limited.. for the last three months i have been carefully studying crypto price trends.. let me just say the last couple of days happning have made me a little less  sure of bitcoins future path to the moon.. 

i aint gonna debate what crypto is.. the UK thinks it money the US thinks its a taxable commodity.. whether or not it gets taxed is important.. nicehash losing its legal case might have something to do with  the current price drop.. i dont know.. i do think its under attack from some powerful forces..


----------



## notb (Nov 30, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Eh...I don't pay for anything using oil and coil. It is a functioning currency for a surprisingly large number of companies. Day trading cryptocurrency is no different than trading any other currency and it bubbles like a fiat currency (which is also based off of nothing physical).
> 
> My point was he has next to no experience in much of anything that has to do with currency let alone crypto, so his opinion that this wasn't a correction is worth about as much as the annoying "he he he" thing he does after posts.



State currencies are backed by a state, which means their value is based on many parameters not directly connected to money being a medium of exchange. We have interest rates, ratings, general situation in the state (stability, forcasts) and so on. This is what finance graduates should know about (but a diploma is not necessary, obviously).

Cryptocurrencies at this point have some properties of money, but are not there yet. For starters, they aren't generally acceptable.

And since you can't pay for everything with your Bitcoin, its value still hugely depends on what you can pay for.
You can see a jump in BTCUSD every time some major online shop starts accepting it or a large state releases regulations (that could lead to crypto becoming popular there).

Think about an analyst at Steam who tracks BTC payments. He'll know way more about BTC popularity - and as a result: value - than any economy Noble Prize winner. So at this point it's not the financial knowledge that matters.


----------



## trog100 (Nov 30, 2017)

as for crypto experts cdawall... there aint any.. which in my general oppinion makes anything i  opine about bitcoin as good as any and better than most.. 

nice to see you back in the thread notb.. he he..

trog


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## yotano211 (Nov 30, 2017)

Cryptocurrencies have no properties of any money. Why is it converted to fiat currency to buy things, because its not a real currency. 

Lots of people and countries hate cryptocurrencies but love the block chain technology


----------



## Vayra86 (Nov 30, 2017)

I'm sorry to say this, but my god some people in here are naive as hell... or just incapable of seeing what's really happening.

These corrections are large invested parties manipulating the marketplace and getting rich off it, essentially putting the axe into the whole system's credibility and longevity.. In the real stock market, these things are regulated and even thére you see it happening, just in a much more controlled fashion and as such it never destabilizes the market in the same way.. In crypto, they're not. 'Corrections' serve only the bank accounts of the crypto whales, you guys get to pick up some scraps.

About it being a currency - yes, if you apply a LOT of wishful thinking and, here it comes: gamble on it to stay that way. Let me put this one forward: if you consider this more than a gamble, wake the hell up, and do it fast 

You are right about one thing: something has value if others agree that it does. But something with value does not a real currency make. Especially not something as volatile as this. And that is what people refer to when they say 'it is not tied to anything of meaning, like other currencies.' Even though we have abandoned the gold standard, REAL currency still *represents a certain fixed value, recognized by and reinforced by (important bit, that) the pricing of all goods all over the world at any point in time*. Crypto is tied to what, some weird concept that constitutes 'proof of work' with a massive detrimental impact on our energy consumption, with no tangible benefits except personal gain.  In the end, real currencies are tied to the workforce of a country, or a continent, and the value of its assets. 

With BTC, you cannot state that to be true. Bitcoin, and all other crypto, is fully elastic and the system has no realistic safeguards to prevent it crashing, because again, too volatile for real mass trading anyway. Ironically, if crypto is EVER to become a worthwile thing to use as a real currency, it will need everything that we don't like about fiat currencies. The only conclusion here is that crypto in its current shape is a finite affair.

So to all the gamblers: sing while you're winning. Get out before this bubble bursts 

I have said this elsewhere and perhaps also here before; the only really good thing about crypto is the technology itself, most notably the blockchain as a security and data quality safeguard. In the end, faith in a currency (and all currency IS data these days) is about trust, and blockchain guarantees that trust on the transaction level. Beyond that, don't consider it to go places - like the gold rush, this is a temporary thing with a small amount of winners and a large majority of people losing out. In fact, crypto coins are remarkably similar to gold right now - they represent value, but most people won't take it as payment, because they have no purpose for it.


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## notb (Nov 30, 2017)

trog100 said:


> nice to see you back in the thread notb.. he he..


I see that not much has changed. ROI on mining gear is still around 1 year and some of you are still going for it. I'm pretty shocked! 

I was pretty active around the mining phenomenon lately... And it's very likely I'll actually make a living from blockchain. 



yotano211 said:


> Cryptocurrencies have no properties of any money.


Not true! Money is, by definition, a generally accepted means of payment and a value storage.
Cryptos are pretty close to this description (more than anything else we have in our civilization - apart from proper money and other financial instruments, obviously).

In 10 years tops we might have state-operated cryptos that will be proper money. We only need blockchain to replace current accounting standards.

The issue is: there is no point.
Blockchain doesn't add anything relevant to the IT technology we have today.
And it's slower.
And, to be honest, it's not that safe.

Sure, it is (or can be) transparent, but as a safe storage of value, it's not that great compared to current banking IT systems.

We had many situations where crypto vanished - sometimes because of technology issues, sometimes because of theft or malpractice.
Do you remember the last time when large amounts of electronic money vanished from a bank? 
Sure, you can hack into someones account (e.g. by phishing his password), but to compromise the banking system itself is something else.
Even the people who work at the bank (like database admins etc) can't do that. 
It's way easier to physically rob a bank than to hack into it and transfer some money without a trace. Banking systems are pretty solid.


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## Vayra86 (Nov 30, 2017)

notb said:


> Blockchain doesn't add anything relevant to the IT technology we have today.
> And it's slower.
> And, to be honest, it's not that safe.
> 
> ...



I have to agree with this as well; blockchain is especially interesting for exactly what you mention: its transparency. As long as it can leverage that to accumulate trust and verify authenticity of data, blockchain is going to be a best practice. Whether that is financial of nature, remains to be seen. As everything, the blockchain can and will evolve too.

BTW its funny that you mention the classic bank robbery. I think the new 'classic robbery' is the one where people abuse loopholes in our systems - and boy are they successful. While its easier to physically rob a classic bank, its infinitely more effective to rob the digital crypto bank.

@R-T-B I will take the hint and GTFO now, and don't get me wrong, I like seeing you guys tinker with this, its just not my cup o tea and I do see the longer term scenario, which is pretty bleak.


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## R-T-B (Nov 30, 2017)

Thing is, this is a thread about getting into mining or helping people get into mining.  I fail to see the need for the philosophical debate here, whether or not you have a valid point.  It's everywhere else in the forum anyhow.

I won't continue this debate because it doesn't belong here.


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## trog100 (Nov 30, 2017)

"I see that not much has changed. ROI on mining gear is still around 1 year and some of you are still going for it. I'm pretty shocked! "

i chucked a few grand into building a mining machine three months back.. it was a mistake but it did get me into crypto.. in retrospect i should have simply bought some bitcoin.. he he

the four grand i invested in the mining machine would have netted me ten grand.. i recon mining is a waste of time.. but mine is still running because i built it.. its pulled in three grand so far or around $220 dollars per week.. most of which is due to the rise in crypto prices.. 

one single bitcoin bought three months back would have pulled in over double that.. around $500 dollars profit.. 

trog


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## trog100 (Nov 30, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Thing is, this is a thread about getting into mining or helping people get into mining.  I fail to see the need for the philosophical debate here, whether or not you have a valid point.  It's everywhere else in the forum anyhow.
> 
> I won't continue this debate because it doesn't belong here.



the thread is called riding the crypto wave.. all i am gonna say is there is more to riding the crypto wave than mining or there should be.. my own not very popular viewpoint would be to warn people off it.. its had its day hardware money could be better spent elsewhere..

trog


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## R-T-B (Nov 30, 2017)

Meh, better to say for "getting into crypto" you are right.

I too started off with mining, so my bias is showing...


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## phill (Nov 30, 2017)

It's all on a bit of a slow climb again so all can't be that bad surely...  I'm enjoying the ride..


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## fullinfusion (Nov 30, 2017)

Block chain is here to stay in one way or another.


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## cdawall (Nov 30, 2017)

Meh this is like the third time the morality of crypto has been called into question in this thread alone. It was only started because I had gotten back into mining and was amused by it. I am still making enough and broke ROI very quickly. Hell I just found a 1060 supplier for $107 a card.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 30, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Cryptocurrencies have no properties of any money. Why is it converted to fiat currency to buy things, because its not a real currency.
> 
> Lots of people and countries hate cryptocurrencies but love the block chain technology


Thats balls , bitcoin bought my vega64 so about 0.2 at that time was worth a vega from a shop.

Lots of counties hate that crypto got there first and are doing what they should already be doing you mean, and will be doing , only paypal googlepay and applepay have any such chance but their straight transfer bandits not in any way like bitcoin but same thing to vesa and banks.
Low and behold a Banker calls crypto shit while their all funding research asap.


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## Papahyooie (Nov 30, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Meh this is like the third time the morality of crypto has been called into question in this thread alone. It was only started because I had gotten back into mining and was amused by it. I am still making enough and broke ROI very quickly. Hell I just found a 1060 supplier for $107 a card.


$107 a card?? I need 3 of them stat. What sorcery do you possess? Hell, I'll even pay in bitcoin if they want lol.


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## yotano211 (Dec 1, 2017)

I made my ROI within 1.5-2 months back when each machine was making upwards of $25 per day. I'll continue on mining and building some machines for miners. I only build 1-2 machines per week for miners, down from 2-4 per week from a few months ago.


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## trog100 (Dec 1, 2017)

i know one thing for sure.. if i want to make some crypto money the last thing i am gonna do is build another mining machine.. the money would be far better used simply buying some crypto and watching it go up..

i am currently mining around $25 dollars per day (.0025 BTC) if i owned one bitcoin and it goes up from 9000 to 10000 in one day that has earned me 1000 dollars in one day.. i aint knocking the 25 dollars per day but its hard to get excited about compared to the other options.. 

trog

ps.. one thing i do think.. looking at saving money and a quick a return on investments as a priority aint the way to be doing it.. its a losers viewpoint right from the word go..


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## Vayra86 (Dec 1, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i know one thing for sure.. if i want to make some crypto money the last thing i am gonna do is build another mining machine.. the money would be far better used simply buying some crypto and watching it go up..
> 
> i am currently mining around $25 dollars per day (.0025 BTC) if i owned one bitcoin and it goes up from 9000 to 10000 in one day that has earned me 1000 dollars in one day.. i aint knocking the 25 dollars per day but its hard to get excited about compared to the other options..
> 
> ...



Any buyer of whatever product who has time constraints, will pay too much. That goes for everything - unless you're stupidly lucky


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## phill (Dec 1, 2017)

It's certainly climbing again...  I'm liking it


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## trog100 (Dec 1, 2017)

phill said:


> It's certainly climbing again...  I'm liking it


 
yes it seems to have gotten over its hissy fits and settled down to its earlier more predictable pattern.. 

most of my losses have come back..

trog


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## phill (Dec 1, 2017)

I know I bought at the wrong time but it's around the same amount as before, I'm not so unhappy   lol  Like I said before, all is fair in love and Bitcoin.....


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## hat (Dec 1, 2017)

Well trog you could have for example bought 1 btc, but by the time your machine earns the equivalent amount you could have just bought outright, at least your machine will still be earning a little bit more every day... It's the better investment in the long term.


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## Papahyooie (Dec 1, 2017)

Of course, IF you have the capital to buy in large enough amounts, buying is the better way. If you buy 1 BTC, you'll make more over the month than a small time miner will. But at a cost of $0 to start mining (using already owned graphics cards, as many small time miners do) it's easy to *get* that capital in BTC as long as you do it smartly. On top of that, a miner has a constant stream of incoming BTC, whereas a one-time buy may result in net dollars, it will not result in net BTC. If you buy, you'll always have the same number of BTC, until you decide to invest more. A miner is constantly gaining BTC, AND gaining dollar value as the value increases. On top of that, once you've reached ROI for your hardware you no longer have any risk. A buyer will always be risking his capital. In the odd event that BTC becomes worthless, a buyer has lost everything. Once a miner reaches ROI, (as long as he retains the value of his equipment by converting the cash value back to dollars) he literally has zero risk. 

Mining is plenty legitimate in the long haul.


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## trog100 (Dec 1, 2017)

hat said:


> Well trog you could have for example bought 1 btc, but by the time your machine earns the equivalent amount you could have just bought outright, at least your machine will still be earning a little bit more every day... It's the better investment in the long term.



nah money for money lets say in my case 4 grand to build a half decent mining machine as opposed to 4 grand to buy just one bitcoin.. three months back when i started 4 grand would have bought one whole bitcoin.. 

the 4 grand for one bitcoin would now be worth 10500 a nice profit of 65000.. 

my mining has produced just over 3000 dollars or 0.3000 bitcoin.. not bad but far short of one whole bitcoin at 10500.. 

the thing is the more crypto you own the more you make as it goes up... hindsight is a wonderful thing but i had to learn the hard way.. 

okay if crpto wasnt going up so f-cking fast mining would be okay.. but as it is its costing money waiting for the tiny mined amounts to grow large enough to be worth owning.. 

all i would say is if people own the gear set it to mining otherwise if you like crypto just buy some.. dont waste money on mining hardware.. like i did.. 

my (mined) 1/3 of a bitcoin is now big enough to net me 300 dollars for every 1000 dollars bitcoin goes up.. i just bought some litecoin and etherium just the get me a bit more.. i think they will all keep going up together.. my total outlay is around £6000..  my crypto stash is now about £5000.. if crypto keeps going up as it has been doing the £5000 should keep growing nicely.. he he

trog


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Dec 1, 2017)

You both have good points but im in the middle , I should have bought one at £1500 quid and about now spent 3000 on mining gear to recoup its (the mining gear)cost ,ie back to one coin or more then  rinse and repeat until minings pointless by which point I might have 1.5-2 or more and a boat load of tat to fold with and hopefully the millions to pay the leccy

Recently got me a 120L fishtank for some mining dunked strangeness but oil costs apparently so im saving tut


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## trog100 (Dec 1, 2017)

Papahyooie said:


> Of course, IF you have the capital to buy in large enough amounts, buying is the better way. If you buy 1 BTC, you'll make more over the month than a small time miner will. But at a cost of $0 to start mining (using already owned graphics cards, as many small time miners do) it's easy to *get* that capital in BTC as long as you do it smartly. On top of that, a miner has a constant stream of incoming BTC, whereas a one-time buy may result in net dollars, it will not result in net BTC. If you buy, you'll always have the same number of BTC, until you decide to invest more. A miner is constantly gaining BTC, AND gaining dollar value as the value increases. On top of that, once you've reached ROI for your hardware you no longer have any risk. A buyer will always be risking his capital. In the odd event that BTC becomes worthless, a buyer has lost everything. Once a miner reaches ROI, (as long as he retains the value of his equipment by converting the cash value back to dollars) he literally has zero risk.
> 
> Mining is plenty legitimate in the long haul.



at a cost of zero to start mining no money will be made.. this kind of thinking isnt valid.. mining hardware costs money.. running your nice gaming PC 24/7 dosnt come free ether.. the return will be less than 2 dollars per day for the average single card gaming type machine.. 

okay i think it costs money to make money.. i am maybe lucky enough to have a bit of spare cash i could chuck at mining gear or as i now know just buying some bitcoin.. 

dont get me wrong here my thinking is based on crypto continueing to keep going up.. i think at least for the next year it will do this..  by how much i dont know but it could be a lot.. 

i have given my own factual real life experience here.. people can and will do their own thing.. 

trog


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## Papahyooie (Dec 1, 2017)

trog100 said:


> at a cost of zero to start mining no money will be made.. this kind of thinking isnt valid.. mining hardware costs money.. running your nice gaming PC 24/7 dosnt come free ether.. the return will be less than 2 dollars per day for the average single card gaming type machine..
> 
> okay i think it costs money to make money.. i am maybe lucky enough to have a bit of spare cash i could chuck at mining gear or as i now know just buying some bitcoin..
> 
> ...



Sure, you're right that running a small operation won't make you rich. But that doesn't mean the BTC profit isn't "worth owning." A modest profit of $50 a week may mean nothing to you, especially after you've netted thousands of dollars from BTC's value growth. But so what if the return is less than 2 dollars per day? It's still a return. Obviously mining at a loss is folly. Just buy, and don't lose money. But profit is profit, whether it's 10 bucks a week or thousands. Just because you think it's small or maybe not worth the effort doesn't change the math.

I have a small farm with three graphics cards. Right now my best graphics card is a 980Ti... I've made enough from mining to buy a 1070... that's free money. You can scoff at it if you want, but it's now funding my hardware purchases. Whereas if I were just to buy bitcoin (which I have done so as well) I'd have to put the money up front. I have done this, I'm simply making the point that mining is absolutely viable. It obviously won't have returns like buying a few grand worth of BTC at $4000 a few months ago did. That goes without saying. But that doesn't mean mining is worthless. You said at a cost of zero to start mining, no money will be made. I beg to differ. I spent zero dollars on mining equipment, and now have over 400 bucks worth of bitcoin (from mining.) I make good money, but I'm not so rich as to turn my nose up at 400 bucks. If you are, good for you. But that doesn't at all mean that "this kind of thinking isn't valid."


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## trog100 (Dec 2, 2017)

firstly 2 dollars per day (a single card machines output) does not equate with 50 dollars per week.. and i am not scoffing at anything only your zero cost mining concept.. 

you say you are not poor.. well that means you are not stuck with zero cost mining.. you can afford to do it properly.. why not try it.. 

the bottom line is simple the more money you put in the more money you get out.. this applies to a mining or simply buying crypto.. 

trog


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## Papahyooie (Dec 2, 2017)

trog100 said:


> firstly 2 dollars per day (a single card machines output) does not equate with 50 dollars per week.. and i am not scoffing at anything only your zero cost mining concept..
> 
> you say you are not poor.. well that means you are not stuck with zero cost mining.. you can afford to do it properly.. why not try it..
> 
> ...


I never said two dollars a day equals fifty a week... Fifty was simply a made-up number for conversational purposes... 

Secondly, I never said I only mined. I do have cash invested as well. But some other people might not, or might not be able to do so, but have some capable hardware lying around. 

I agree that the more money you put in, the more money you get out. But you're saying that logic precludes mining, and that is simply not the case.

You can scoff at whatever you like, but the fact is I spent zero dollars on mining hardware (as my mining hardware is made up of unused graphics cards) and through simply mining (not including money I've made from cash investment) I have enough profit to buy a new graphics card. Think whatever you like, but a new graphics card is a new graphics card. And money is money, whether it's tens or thousands. Your assertion that mining is profitless simply isn't true, and neither is your assertion that the thinking behind mining isn't valid. 

Think what you want, but my future free 1080 Ti says you're wrong...


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## P4-630 (Dec 2, 2017)

*Laszlo Hanyecz* (*laszlo*) made the first documented purchase of a good with bitcoin when he bought two Domino's pizzas from jercos for *10,000 BTC*.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Laszlo_Hanyecz

Wow!! That's very expensive pizza nowadays....


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## phill (Dec 2, 2017)

I agree Hat, I think that even with the amount BTC grows most days or just stays it's ground, it's definitely going upwards so as long as it takes to make one when you mine it, at least it will eventually be worth more than it started out  

Apologises, not so graceful in how to describe it but I hope you get the idea


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## trog100 (Dec 2, 2017)

i wonder how many folks in this thread cash in their crypto as fast as it gets mined or how many hold it..

the other interesting question is.. if you have two types of money.. one that goes up in value by %25 per week and one that stays put or slowly goes down in value..

which type of money are you gonna spend.. i am treating crypto as one type of money in this question..

trog


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## hat (Dec 2, 2017)

phill said:


> I agree Hat, I think that even with the amount BTC grows most days or just stays it's ground, it's definitely going upwards so as long as it takes to make one when you mine it, at least it will eventually be worth more than it started out
> 
> Apologises, not so graceful in how to describe it but I hope you get the idea



I understand exactly what you mean. If I had $150 in BTC when it was worth 3000, today it would be worth $500 or more...


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## phill (Dec 2, 2017)

Since March a friend and I had been mining ETH and ETC.  At the start of it till we stopped we had made about 30 ETH coins and nearly to date, 100 ETC.   From making an ETH coin every 2 days to now nearly 2 months, the same sort of thing goes to ETC, nearly 2 coins a day to a coin nearly in 4 days..  Obviously the hashing rates and such of the cards have dropped over time simply because the DAG files changed it and difficulty has raised.  

If we had kept all of those, we'd have erm, a lot 

Recently we had sold off a few ETH coins that I had and that we reinvested into Bitcoin.  Sadly that went a little wrong but when I remind my mate of when I said to him we should have invested in it when it was around the $3000 mark..  Scary times...  

From what we have now it is only because we have flipped coins and reinvested it into Bitcoin, as we should have done ages ago.  I'm more convinced that Bitcoin is the way forward, for how long it stays up over the $11000 mark I have no idea (like everyone else I'm sure) but I do believe if it crashes, it will crash very hard.  
Still, I can't say I'm unhappy with what my mate and I have done, I just wish we had held on to the coins we had made.  It would have been worth a heck of a lot of cash....


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## trog100 (Dec 2, 2017)

i think the 11000 mark phil is just a mark on its way up.. this month i bought 4 eth coins.. i paid just over £940 for them.. i also bought 15 litecoin for about the same money.. the 4 eth coins are now at £1359.00 and the litecoin at £1145.00.. thats  a profit of around 600 quid.. 

my nicehash stash has gone up about the same over the month.. thats a profit of over  £1200 over the month of november.. 

i expect to see the same percentage gains over the coming months.. mining has become of secondary importance to me now.. most of my gains are from just watching the price of my crypto stash go up.. 

trog


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## phill (Dec 2, 2017)

Yep it sure does, it's just knowing when to cash out and buy back in again to make the most of what you have mined or got in the mean time.  It's just a little hard to judge sometimes. That said at times when ETH has dropped to like $200 and then back up to $300, that's a 50% increase and on top of that, would net you a massive amount of coin gains as well if you sell at $300 to buy back at $200..  
Most of the time my mate and I just missed the boat, but making them was much easier before, hence this is what we did..  Looking back as you always do is easier to do than doing it there and then..  It's just a shame we never just held them as it would have made us some serious money for not a lot of outgoing cash...  That said, if I can gain more Bitcoin through mining or selling off what I have now, I'd throw it together in the pot and leave it there until such time..  I mean if it drops and we could double what we have in Bitcoin now, I'd be loving it


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## Papahyooie (Dec 2, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i wonder how many folks in this thread cash in their crypto as fast as it gets mined or how many hold it..
> 
> the other interesting question is.. if you have two types of money.. one that goes up in value by %25 per week and one that stays put or slowly goes down in value..
> 
> ...



I understand what you mean. This is why my cash investments stay in bitcoin, while I plan to sell off / buy goods with my mined coins. One investment for growth, the other to convert to cash/goods as a safe haven. If the doom and gloom crowds are right and the bubble bursts sometime in the near future, I'll still have profit in cash and goods. If I left 100% of it in bitcoin, and the market crashes it will all be for nothing.

It's called diversification (though not in as strict a sense as the word is normally used in investment.) As I said, you can think the mining "way of thinking isn't valid" ... But I think you just haven't followed that line of thinking to its conclusion. Simply thinking "This will net me the largest percentage return as long as btc continues to rise" is fine, as long as your appetite for risk is high. Some of us simply play a longer game.


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## trog100 (Dec 2, 2017)

unlike some i dont see much risk in it papa.. i see it as the future.. i recon its here and its here to stay and above all i see it as continuing to rise for quite some time yet.. if i didnt i would not think as i do.. two kinds of money.. one goes up in value and one dosnt.. its pretty obvious to me which one i keep and which one i spend.. 

but if it all does go tits up i will survive and in truth it is spare money i would only waste on other stuff i dont really need.. it makes a change having an "interest" that aint costing me a fortune.. he he

people not spending crypto may well be its downfall.. but i for one sure aint gonna spend it as long as i think its gonna be worth more tomorrow than it is today..

trog


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## phill (Dec 2, 2017)

Best way forward   Mine and keep it, buy and sell and keep profits, then if it starts to go Pete Tong, sell it and pocket from whatever you have made


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## Papahyooie (Dec 2, 2017)

trog100 said:


> unlike some i dont see much risk in it papa.. i see it as the future.. i recon its here and its here to stay and above all i see it as continuing to rise for quite some time yet.. if i didnt i would not think as i do.. two kinds of money.. one goes up in value and one dosnt.. its pretty obvious to me which one i keep and which one i spend..
> 
> but if it all does go tits up i will survive and in truth it is spare money i would only waste on other stuff i dont really need.. it makes a change having an "interest" that aint costing me a fortune.. he he
> 
> ...


And I never said your philosophy or way of doing it was invalid... You're the one who said that.


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## trog100 (Dec 2, 2017)

not invalid papa i just did it wrong.. i should have forgot the the 4 grand mining rig and just bought one single bitcoin for the same money as the rig cost me.. i would now have one whole bitcoin worth $11000 dollars..

so far mining (as opposed to simply buying coin) has cost me around $7500 f-cking dollars over the last three month and my original mistake  will continue to cost me over the next 3 months.. he he he

what more can i say.. 

trog


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## Papahyooie (Dec 3, 2017)

trog100 said:


> not invalid papa i just did it wrong.. i should have forgot the the 4 grand mining rig and just bought one single bitcoin for the same money as the rig cost me.. i would now have one whole bitcoin worth $11000 dollars..
> 
> so far mining (as opposed to simply buying coin) has cost me around $7500 f-cking dollars over the last three month and my original mistake  will continue to cost me over the next 3 months.. he he he
> 
> ...



No, you literally said that it was invalid. You said the type of thinking behind mining is invalid.


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## silkstone (Dec 3, 2017)

trog100 said:


> not invalid papa i just did it wrong.. i should have forgot the the 4 grand mining rig and just bought one single bitcoin for the same money as the rig cost me.. i would now have one whole bitcoin worth $11000 dollars..
> 
> so far mining (as opposed to simply buying coin) has cost me around $7500 f-cking dollars over the last three month and my original mistake  will continue to cost me over the next 3 months.. he he he
> 
> ...



The thing is, if you'd bough 1 bitcoin, you still only have 1 bitcoin and it'd be worth $11 000 sure. But it's only be worth that once you sold it. Then once you've sold it, you're back to square one.

With a mining rig, you have potential LT earnings from it.

Sure, you'd have been better off buying 1 BTC, THEN building a rig with the profits, but hindsight is no real help.

I spent and extra $300 on a 1080 and kept it mining for the past 6 months and have made ~$1200, though I had some hardware already. If I had bought BTC (or even just mined and converted), I'd have more today, but I still have the original value of my hardware.

I cashed out $600 over that past week to do a computer upgrade and buy a 1080Ti and a 1060 which cost around $1600 USD total. My holdings are down, but my rate of income is up 2-fold. Had I invested that additional $1000 into currency, there is a good chance I would make more, but who the hell knows what the market will do. If the $1600 I invested goes down by 50%, I'd be pissed. If the value goes down now, I have still hedged by buying a kick-ass computer  that I wanted anyway.

Don't kick yourself too much. hindsight is all good and well, but are you sure you would have sold at $11000 and not $5000? About 10 years ago, I mined BTC when it was at a rate of about 0.5 BTC per day, but I lost interest and gave up all my coins. I tell myself now, that I'd likely have sold them all at $200 anyway.
My current strategy is to keep at least 50% of what I mine and sell the other 50% to recoup costs. That way, if it goes up, I'll still see my holdings increase and not be too pissed if I miss a peak.


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## P4-630 (Dec 3, 2017)

*Winklevoss twins become first Bitcoin billionaires
*
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/99486498/winklevoss-twins-become-first-bitcoin-billionaires


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## toilet pepper (Dec 3, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i wonder how many folks in this thread cash in their crypto as fast as it gets mined or how many hold it..
> 
> the other interesting question is.. if you have two types of money.. one that goes up in value by %25 per week and one that stays put or slowly goes down in value..
> 
> ...




Sold my .02 BTC a month ago. It is twice its worth now.


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## trog100 (Dec 3, 2017)

the more this conversation continues the more it becomes obvious to me that cashing in your mined crypto is a mistake..

cashing in the type of money that goes up for the type of money that dosnt makes no sense at all..

this applies even if its to buy hardware to mine with.. the money would best be spent simply buying coin.. coin being the type of money that goes up.. buy it and watch it go up.. dont piss about taking ages to mine it..

currently cashing in  mining money to buy more mining gear is just 100% wrong.. if you want to make some money just chuck all the spare cash you have into crypto and leave it there.. he he

sadly you cant spend the crypto.. not yet anyways.. 

my 10 card mining set up  is currently producing for me .0023 bitcoin per day.. this figure has dropped from .0044 where it was three months back.. the dollar figure at around 25 per day looks okay but the bitcoin gained isnt.. if the intention is to cash out quickly the only figure that matters is the dollar figure..

i am more interested in the bitcoin gained figure.. at the current rate it would take 500 days mining to gain one bitcoin.. if the coin price keeps going up as i expect it to the .0023 per day figure is gonna keep going down.. i already own the mining gear so its no loss to me to keep it running and see that happens.. but i for sure aint gonna buy any more mining gear.. 

as for the spare high end graphics cards that may be laying around.. sell them on ebay and use the money to buy coin.. 

trog


----------



## silkstone (Dec 3, 2017)

trog100 said:


> the more this conversation continues the more it becomes obvious to me that cashing in your mined crypto is a mistake..
> 
> cashing in the type of money that goes up for the type of money that dosnt makes no sense at all..
> 
> ...



It depends how you start. I started by putting $300 in for a 1080, had I not reinvested in mining gear, I'd likely have the same amount of crypto money I do now, but no way to make more apart from hoping the markets keep going up.

It's all well and good saying you should put ALL your money into crypto currency, but you don't know if/when it will crash again.

If you put money in, you really have to figure out what you'll be happy selling at first and I don't know how you'd make that decision in these markets. $10,000? $20,000?

At least with mining, you don't have that worry. You make what you make. Hold when it's low, sell some when it's high and make more.


----------



## phill (Dec 3, 2017)

trog100 said:


> not invalid papa i just did it wrong.. i should have forgot the the 4 grand mining rig and just bought one single bitcoin for the same money as the rig cost me.. i would now have one whole bitcoin worth $11000 dollars..
> 
> so far mining (as opposed to simply buying coin) has cost me around $7500 f-cking dollars over the last three month and my original mistake  will continue to cost me over the next 3 months.. he he he
> 
> ...



Hind sight is a bitch Trog   lol  But then if the price of the coin had dropped and you lost $4000, what would you be thinking then??  The thing is there Trog is that you might have spent $4000 on hardware, but you have still got the hardware and can sell that on if you wanted but it makes you a small return every day which to me is a no brainer to keep because it's actually making you more cash every day instead.  The price for Bitcoin grows and grows every day more often than not, so what does it matter if you produce 0.004 or 0.002 of a coin a day??  My 6 480's I've got running are apparently averaging 0.0013 a day, pretty poor but then it's something rather than nothing...  

Like Han says in Fast and Furious Toko Drift, 10% of something is better than 100% nothing..   I'd rather stick with 10% of something in the end since 10% of 11000 of something, seems pretty worth while to me... Even more so when I don't spend it and it grows in value for not doing sweet fa.....


----------



## trog100 (Dec 3, 2017)

a sudden spike in crypto price.. a quick jump from 11200 to 11600.. noticeable.. for reasons i still havnt figured all the top coins move together.. to the minute even..

i have my finger on the litecoin button.. £500 is itching to get spend.. now or wait for the expected little dip.. he he..

i recon i am going bonkers but the game is quite addictive.. 

trog


----------



## silkstone (Dec 3, 2017)

trog100 said:


> a sudden spike in crypto price.. a quick jump from 11200 to 11600.. noticeable.. for reasons i still havnt figured all the top coins move together.. to the minute even..
> 
> i have my finger on the litecoin button.. £500 is itching to get spend.. now or wait for the expected little dip.. he he..
> 
> ...



BTC is often the 'currency' of exchange, a spike in one alt-coin spikes demand in BTC, hence the movement together. In the past 3 days, there has been a lot of upward movement of the lower cap coins, which are mainly traded for BTC. In a short time Vertcoin has gone from $0.7 all the way up to $8. Man I wish I had bought more of those in my efforts to diversify.


----------



## phill (Dec 3, 2017)

It seems to have grown a bit more today as well, aside from the currency becoming more profitable my global rate has risen as well, so I'm making more cash in more ways than one!!   I'm not sure if there's any reason to feel bad about either of that


----------



## trog100 (Dec 3, 2017)

i hit the buy button on some litecoin phil.. £500 quids worth.. i now have 21 of the things if you can call em things.. he he

litecoin has gone up 88% over the last month.. just a f-cking shame i never went for it a month ago.. the 1500 quid i have spent to get them would now be worth about £2700..

my mining cash return equihash is just like you say phil running very high.. my two card desktop machine is showing up to 7 dollars per day.. with the other machine this is about 30 dollars per day.. i have been as low as 15 dollars per day..

the thing is silkstone.. when all the coins go up exactly together.. its not money moving around in the crypto space its fresh money coming in from outside.. exactly where i havnt a clue but it takes a lot of new money to cause a sudden jump like we have just see.. like 6% jump in the crypto market cap  or a few billion dollars arriving all at the same time..

something lost a few billion dollars and that few billion dollars moved into the crypto space.. i did read it was asian money but who knows for sure..

i tried to buy some vertcoin a while back when i saw it go up from one dollar to five.. but i could not buy the bloody stuff so i gave up.. i now stick to the better known coins..

last month all the better known coins went up by about 60% on average ..

where all this sh-t goes nobody knows.. come back in six months time.. if my stash aint worth 20 grand by than i will be disappointed.. he he

and yep i am lucky enough to have a few quid i dont need to play the game..

trog

phil.. as for that hind sight thing.. i am just gonna assume (until proven otherwise) that what happened last month will happen next month and the one after.. he he


----------



## phill (Dec 3, 2017)

It's always the way Trog, as long as I can say my mate and I have been doing this we have missed chances and lost at other chances, that thing again hind sight is a wonderful thing 

I believe my mate and I will be just sticking with Bitcoin, so that's better than having lots of different coins and crapping out on one..  I've not put any physical money into coins just the hardware ..  I thought it was the safer way but I know if I had tried buying the coins and lost it all, I'd be a little upset..  I figure the hardware is at least a bit of a backup if everything went south


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 3, 2017)

I guess 6 1070ti mine better than 6 1070s. I can put the 1070ti's power rating at 55% without loss to mining speed but the 1070 requires at least 70%.


----------



## trog100 (Dec 4, 2017)

i think a 1070 ti just wastes power compared to a 1070 but i could be wrong..

i notice a mining output drop with my cards if i go below 90% on the power usage.. 

trog4


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 4, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i think a 1070 ti just wastes power compared to a 1070 but i could be wrong..
> 
> i notice a mining output drop with my cards if i go below 90% on the power usage..
> 
> trog4


I might be because I am not using nicehash for the mining software but these 1070ti use less power than the 1070.


----------



## phill (Dec 4, 2017)

I don't suppose yotano, you have a wattage meter plugged in to the PC at all?


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 4, 2017)

phill said:


> I don't suppose yotano, you have a wattage meter plugged in to the PC at all?





phill said:


> I don't suppose yotano, you have a wattage meter plugged in to the PC at all?


I do have one but I mixed up the 1070ti's with the 1070. I have 3 1070 and 3 ti's on 1 machine, the other 3 and 3 are on another mine machine. They look so alike that I mixed them up and accident. I didnt find my mistake until the OS and every software was already installed so I said "f it" and left it like that.


----------



## phill (Dec 4, 2017)

My OCD would kill me lol  I'd have to change them about!! lol   What do you mine with the 1070's?


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 5, 2017)

phill said:


> My OCD would kill me lol  I'd have to change them about!! lol   What do you mine with the 1070's?


I mine ethereum


----------



## phill (Dec 5, 2017)

I find the difficulty for the 6 cards I run it's not as profitable as running the Cryponight through NiceHash.  Lower power draw and higher daily payout..  Kinda surprising to be honest...


----------



## silkstone (Dec 5, 2017)

phill said:


> I find the difficulty for the 6 cards I run it's not as profitable as running the Cryponight through NiceHash.  Lower power draw and higher daily payout..  Kinda surprising to be honest...



What coin is cryptonight?


----------



## phill (Dec 5, 2017)

It's not a coin it's a type of hash type or maybe another word could be 'codec' I suppose?  You can select different types of hash to what your graphics card is better tuned to do.  I use Cryptonight because it uses less power than ETC or ETH and gives me a better pay out for each day


----------



## trog100 (Dec 5, 2017)

my nicehash dosnt give me the option to use Cryptonight on my 1070 gpus phil only on my cpu.. 

be careful as regards payouts they vary.. my two card desktop set up (handy to check out things) is currently showing over 6 dollars per day or 3 dollars per card minin9g dagger/decred or equihash this is way higher than it used to be.. nearly double what i was seeing six week back.. i just leave the nicehash minor to do its own thing.. 

dollar wise my mining returns have gone up a fair bit.. i assume it because whatever coin the minor is mining has gone up.. 

i am assuming that cryptonight dosnt work as well on nvidia cards which is why its not on my mining list..

my two machines (10 1070 cards in total) are now giving me a good 25 dollars per day or .0024 bitcoin..


----------



## phill (Dec 5, 2017)

In the benchmark section, you can see if it will allow you to 'tick' it and then test it.  I find that it just gave me the better return as when it was chopping and changing, it was putting the power upwards of a 1000w when dual mining and it was earning about half of what Cryptonight was doing.  I must admit, I've just left it be completely and not even thought about it.  

The global rate was upwards of 1.5 but this morning it was about the 1.1 mark, so I'm guessing I'll be earning something nearer to 0.0011 BTC if the 'global rate' is anything to go by.  Money going up, BTC going up, overall.  I'm not bothered as long as I can clear $10 a day after electric costs lol


----------



## Outback Bronze (Dec 5, 2017)

So BTC is getting close to 12K U.S...

What is going to stop this steam train???

Anybody?


----------



## trog100 (Dec 5, 2017)

Outback Bronze said:


> So BTC is getting close to 12K U.S...
> 
> What is going to stop this steam train???
> 
> Anybody?



nobody knows.. i expect it to keep on going up for quite some time yet.. 40K by mid next year..

i did hear a bitcoin blackhole being mentioned.. he he

Bitcoin sucking up all the spare cash in the world.. bitcoin to infinity.. what could stop it.. who the f-ck knows.. 

trog

ps.. its been as high as 11947 today.. its dropped back a bit to just over 11800 but i recon it will be over the 12000 mark before tomorrow..


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Dec 5, 2017)

I flipped 1 BTC for LTC back in November. Got in at $60/LTC. even though BTC has increased from 8k to 12k since that span LTC has gone from $60 to $104...so my % gain from LTC is higher so was a good move so far.


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 5, 2017)

Outback Bronze said:


> So BTC is getting close to 12K U.S...
> 
> What is going to stop this steam train???
> 
> Anybody?



I expect it to hit 50k just to spite notb's prediction that that's impossible.


----------



## Papahyooie (Dec 5, 2017)

If the hodlers continue to hodl, then that's probably right.


----------



## Outback Bronze (Dec 5, 2017)

trog100 said:


> nobody knows.. i expect it to keep on going up for quite some time yet.. 40K by mid next year..
> 
> i did hear a bitcoin blackhole being mentioned.. he he
> 
> ...





R-T-B said:


> I expect it to hit 50k just to spite notb's prediction that that's impossible.



Fark...

You guys serious?

I must admit, I did hear that somebody predicted BTC to hit 10K by the end of the year and I was thinking..... Well yeah maybe, possibly. Its a long shot. But this type of thinking was a few months ago and I honestly thought it was going to be stretching it.

Here we sit at almost 12K and we still have 3 weeks to go before the end of the year.

If you guys are right it would be a good investment to purchase 1 BTC and sit on it with a 3-400% increase in value.

But in the end who knows right? It could take a sudden right turn and crash hard yeah?

Like I said "What is going to stop this steam train?"


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 5, 2017)

Seriously I have no idea, and doubt anyone does.  It's part of why I got out of crypto:  Way too stressful.


----------



## Outback Bronze (Dec 5, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Seriously I have no idea, and doubt anyone does.  It's part of why I got out of crypto:  Way too stressful.



LOL yeah. I have to say looking after my miners is like a second job...


----------



## trog100 (Dec 5, 2017)

i am serious.. all the top coin is doing the same.. litecoin has gone up 86% during November.. bitcoin is probably the best option to buy but litecoin looks good.. i have just bought $1500 quids worth..

looking at BTC its just about to go over the 12000 dollars mark.. it about 50 dollars off.. these round figures seem symbolic..

its gone too far to end now.. how it will end will be interesting.. he he..

my mining is hassle free.. the only downside being it aint mining fast enough.. hence me buying in more coin.. so far this month i am £1000 into ether and £1500 into litecoin.. my coinbase account limits the amount it lets me buy.. but the limit is going up..

my three month mining stash is at $3660 dollars.. or .33 bitcoin.. i doubt i will ever get a full one.. he he

hind sight tells me i should have spent the mining rig cash (£4000 ) on buying a whole bitcoin.. the $3660 stash i mentioned would be $12000 dollars.. mining has cost me money and not made me any but hind sight is a wonderful thing..

trog


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## Outback Bronze (Dec 5, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i am serious..



Shit mate... 40K is pretty BS hey!


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Dec 5, 2017)

BTC will be at $20k by q2 of 2018


----------



## Papahyooie (Dec 5, 2017)

We saw a couple of mini crashes at 10 and 11k. When it hit 7k and 8k, it's normal for people to look toward that next milestone, and say "I'll sell at 10k." And then they do sell at 10k, causing a mini flood of supply, dropping price. We will probably see just as big or bigger "crashes" at 15 and 20k, with plenty of mini crashes at each 1k increment. The long term hodlers will win out in pure earnings. But eventually, you will have to sell or else you've got tons of essentially non-liquid assets. Nothing wrong with that, except for the fact that a bitcoin isn't like other nonliquid assets like land or houses... a bitcoin is worth nothing until it's sold. Sure you can buy some things with them, but this is an odd gray area. Is a bitcoin a currency or a security? As Trog said above, it would seem that spending would be crazy. But at the same time, once again, it has to be sold or spent to hold any value at all. Personally, I'm not much of a gambler. So I will take my small wins when I can. As long as the hodlers hodl, Bitcoin will hold its value. At the point that everyone decides to sell... game over. And we've already seen these mini crashes happen within minutes. If you hold all your bitcoin, watching it skyrocket, waiting for it to hit the moon... You're literally going to have minutes to get off the boat before it's sunk. It doesn't matter if it hits 50k or 100k or higher... If the big crash happens, it will be worth nothing in minutes.

The other side to that coin (pun intended) is... a smart person with a little taste for risk might start buying at that point... which drives the value back up. THAT is the only thing keeping Bitcoin afloat. Joe decides to sell, value drops. Jim sees the drop and a chance to get some cheap bitcoin and buys, driving price back up. The only question is how much faith people have in how far it can go.


----------



## trog100 (Dec 5, 2017)

buy the f-cking dip.. full faith and all in.. 

the stock market is running along the same lines.. he he

i like the bitcoin blackhole theory.. bitcoin eventually sucks up all fiat investment money and we have a new monetary system.. whoops..

for me it aint about when it will end its more about how it could end..

trog


----------



## notb (Dec 5, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> I expect it to hit 50k just to spite notb's prediction that that's impossible.


I don't think I used the word "impossible".
But other than that... yeah - maybe I had too much faith in humanity. Or maybe not...? We'll see what happens.


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 5, 2017)

notb said:


> I don't think I used the word "impossible".
> But other than that... yeah - maybe I had too much faith in humanity. Or maybe not...? We'll see what happens.



I was just messing with you a bit.  I'm not entirely convinced either way myself.


----------



## trog100 (Dec 6, 2017)

last night i was waiting for BTC to go over the 12K this morning its at 12800 and i am waiting for it to go over 13K..

it seems to have needed the asians to wake up to push it over 12K..

15K by christmas.. he he

trog

ps.. the bad news is nicehash is down.. ouch

its  been down for 4 hours or so now.. they havnt been very forthcoming as to why..


----------



## Papahyooie (Dec 6, 2017)

Yea nicehash still down... for the "push button, get money" crowd, Minergate is a *decent* alternative for the meantime. I get slightly lower speeds with the GUI app than I do with nicehash, but it at least gets your machines doing work while Nicehash is down without having to set things up manually. Tweakers and min-maxers need not apply lol.


----------



## phill (Dec 6, 2017)

I think Nicehash has been down most of the day but I've no idea what has caused it.  Something about a network error whenever I have tried to connect back to it, it errors on boot up of the program..  I'll mine ETC for now, I just wish the difficulty was down so I could get to the payout a load faster!! lol

This 0.25 a coin a day is a killer....


----------



## trog100 (Dec 6, 2017)

what go i do to mine that phil.. beyond NH i havnt a clue.. i am assuming NH is now dead..

or any other options you fancy.. ??

trog


----------



## Papahyooie (Dec 6, 2017)

trog100 said:


> what go i do to mine that phil.. beyond NH i havnt a clue.. i am assuming NH is now dead..
> 
> or any other options you fancy.. ??
> 
> trog


Minergate is a turn-key solution like nicehash. I recommend going with the console version, as I get slower rates using the GUI.


----------



## Outback Bronze (Dec 6, 2017)

Hey Guys important update...

•

Official press release statement by NiceHash (self.NiceHash)

submitted 56 minutes ago by Andrej_ID - announcement

Unfortunately, there has been a security breach involving NiceHash website. We are currently investigating the nature of the incident and, as a result, we are stopping all operations for the next 24 hours.

Importantly, our payment system was compromised and the contents of the NiceHash Bitcoin wallet have been stolen. We are working to verify the precise number of BTC taken.

Clearly, this is a matter of deep concern and we are working hard to rectify the matter in the coming days. In addition to undertaking our own investigation, the incident has been reported to the relevant authorities and law enforcement and we are co-operating with them as a matter of urgency.

We are fully committed to restoring the NiceHash service with the highest security measures at the earliest opportunity.

We would not exist without our devoted buyers and miners all around the globe. We understand that you will have a lot of questions, and we ask for patience and understanding while we investigate the causes and find the appropriate solutions for the future of the service. We will endeavour to update you at regular intervals.

While the full scope of what happened is not yet known, we recommend, as a precaution, that you change your online passwords.

We are truly sorry for any inconvenience that this may have caused and are committing every resource towards solving this issue as soon as possible.


----------



## notb (Dec 6, 2017)

Outback Bronze said:


> Hey Guys important update...
> /cut/


But cryptocurrencies are so safe! Nooooo! Not possible!
:-D

There was a pretty large polish BTC exchange called Bitcurex. It went down last year after a supposed hack. They've been postponing the restart for a while and then vanished.
We have to keep in mind Nicehash is among the global leaders in this sector. But on the other hand: do you really know the company that keeps your money and so much private data? And which can - via it's app - run almost any code on your PC?
Do you know where their HQ is? Are they under jurisdiction of your state's authorities? Do they have a firewall? 

Do Nicehash users know, that this company is registered in Slovenia? And that just 16 people on Linkedin identify as current employees? Exactly 1 of those 16 decided that his job is about system administration. He must be pretty loaded during a hack attempt. :-D

Would it really be worse if your bitcoin account was controlled by a global investment bank? Think about it.


----------



## Papahyooie (Dec 6, 2017)

notb said:


> But cryptocurrencies are so safe! Nooooo! Not possible!
> :-D
> 
> There was a pretty large polish BTC exchange called Bitcurex. It went down last year after a supposed hack. They've been postponing the restart for a while and then vanished.
> ...



That's the wonder of the blockchain. You are responsible for the security of your money. Not a bank, not an organization. If you left large amounts of currency in someone else's hands, that's your own fault. ALWAYS pull your money out into a paper wallet as soon as it's viable. (Obviously I know that you can't transfer every single tiny piece, it would cost too much in fees, and most places won't transfer less than a certain amount anyway.) I lost about 100 bucks. If you're leaving more than that in a third party wallet, you're wrong. If you keep your money in cold storage though, it's virtually unhackable.


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 7, 2017)

notb said:


> But cryptocurrencies are so safe! Nooooo! Not possible!



This was a web wallet.  Not a cryptocurrency wallet.  You're basically saying that because the internet isn't safe, crypto isn't safe.



> If you keep your money in cold storage though, it's virtually unhackable.



Exactly.  I so need to write a guide on this... actually, I may do just that.  It's easy as pie.



> Would it really be worse if your bitcoin account was controlled by a global investment bank? Think about it.



No, which is why that's where many withdraw their mining earnings.


----------



## silkstone (Dec 7, 2017)

If anyone is looking for a miner that pays well and is easy to use, there is a one-click VTC miner. I'm making double what I was getting mining ZEC due to the price jump of VTC. Such profitability will only last another 4 days though as the reward is set to halve then.


----------



## Papahyooie (Dec 7, 2017)

19k boys and girls... I'm thinking about selling to avoid the crash that will inevitably happen lol.


----------



## trog100 (Dec 7, 2017)

Papahyooie said:


> 19k boys and girls... I'm thinking about selling to avoid the crash that will inevitably happen lol.



selling off on the way up has always been part of the story.. go up a few 100 dollars sell off.. take a profit and buy back in on the dip.. rinse and repeat.. 

whats very very unusual this time.. its going up too far and too f-cking fast without the profit taking sell offs and pauses for breath that have always been there..

its getting scary.. 

trog


----------



## AlienIsGOD (Dec 7, 2017)

too good to not post


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 7, 2017)

AlienIsGOD said:


> too good to not post
> 
> View attachment 94567



I take issue with this.  If you had bought 0.004 of a bitcoin just since yesterday, you would have made $160.00.  Since last month?  More like a thousand.

Pic is outdated.


----------



## phill (Dec 7, 2017)

trog100 said:


> what go i do to mine that phil.. beyond NH i havnt a clue.. i am assuming NH is now dead..
> 
> or any other options you fancy.. ??
> 
> trog



To be honest Trog ETC and ETH seem to be so over difficult, my 6 480s mining ETC are hitting 117M/h at the moment and it's taking me 4 days to mine one coin...  It sucks...  I've 5 more coins to make and then that's it..  When Nicehash comes back up I'll switch back to that unless there's another I can use when I've finished the payout via ETC...


----------



## AlienIsGOD (Dec 7, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> I take issue with this.  If you had bought 0.004 of a bitcoin just since yesterday, you would have made $160.00.  Since last month?  More like a thousand.
> 
> Pic is outdated.


details


----------



## Jetster (Dec 7, 2017)

That's why it's a risk, high returns or bust


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Dec 7, 2017)

phill said:


> To be honest Trog ETC and ETH seem to be so over difficult, my 6 480s mining ETC are hitting 117M/h at the moment and it's taking me 4 days to mine one coin...  It sucks...  I've 5 more coins to make and then that's it..  When Nicehash comes back up I'll switch back to that unless there's another I can use when I've finished the payout via ETC...


117mh/s that right?? , my 5 do 145-150mh/s still while also mining libry at about 80mh/s per card , default power slider but underclocked and undervolted slightly , ill drag my mining rig out the cellar to my room and a monitor and strip those bioses, i looked to post them before but i have so many bioses in a folder I've no clue whats what plus i manually adjust speeds and volts still so ill reflash a permanent bios ,test it then post them in @cdawall s bios thread.


----------



## notb (Dec 7, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> This was a web wallet.  Not a cryptocurrency wallet.  You're basically saying that because the internet isn't safe, crypto isn't safe.


Internet-connected banks are safer than keeping cash at home.
Yet, you say that a web wallet is less safe than cold storage / paper wallet.

So doesn't this mean that there is a serious flaw in bitcoin design?
The whole financial system is evolving to become safe, cashless, easy to use, cheap and fast.
And yet cryptocurrency, which is an advanced technological concept, is against most of that. It's slow, expensive and you have to compromise between safety and comfort.

In the meantime:
NiceHash is already down for more than 24h and nothing has changed. In fact the page doesn't state any precise time (even the time it was created). So it's just "down for 24h".
I kind of doubt it'll be back, ever.


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 7, 2017)

notb said:


> So doesn't this mean that there is a serious flaw in bitcoin design?



No, it's the nature of web connected machines.  Banks can be hacked, too. 

You can also encrypt an online official wallet app to the point it can't be accessed if you care to.


----------



## notb (Dec 7, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> No, it's the nature of web connected machines.  Banks can be hacked, too.


But money won't disappear.
And BTW: hacking a properly organized, modern bank and taking money out is not exactly easy. I think you greatly underestimate the difficulty.


----------



## phill (Dec 7, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> 117mh/s that right?? , my 5 do 145-150mh/s still while also mining libry at about 80mh/s per card , default power slider but underclocked and undervolted slightly , ill drag my mining rig out the cellar to my room and a monitor and strip those bioses, i looked to post them before but i have so many bioses in a folder I've no clue whats what plus i manually adjust speeds and volts still so ill reflash a permanent bios ,test it then post them in @cdawall s bios thread.












Yeah the hash rate I've had has dropped since day one but I've just lived with it if I'm honest..  I've tried running different drivers and I've got nowhere sadly.  Each time I try a newer update, the core voltage and power limit disappear and I can't change them.  So then the hash rate rises up a few Mh (and the power rises up a lot more) but nowhere near 50 or more that people seem to get from the cards..  I wish I knew what I could do to flash the cards to get a better hashrate but it seems to be stuck like this...

It doesn't seem to be as efficient with the newer drivers, the performance might not be as much as it should, but I think the extra power usage outways the extra performance sometimes....


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 7, 2017)

notb said:


> But money won't disappear.



Depends on the insurance.



notb said:


> And BTW: hacking a properly organized, modern bank and taking money out is not exactly easy. I think you greatly underestimate the difficulty.



I think you greatly underestimate the diffilculty involved in a crypto heist.

It's not any harder to hack a bank.  SWIFT was even found to have vulnerabilities this year.  It's just hard to get away with the money and not get caught.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Dec 7, 2017)

phill said:


> View attachment 94579
> 
> View attachment 94580
> 
> ...


For these cards the best driver is still the blockchain specific driver and i have tried them all(drivers) modern driver's hash almost as good but seam to suffer maddening down clocks and slip into a half power mode occasionally(with no monitor attached) despite my best efforts and a few different adapter's. I have your bios still ill compare it thoroughly over the weekend with mine(all are flashed to saphire nitro+ or modded msi something but between them there are overclocked 1750@2100 timings for the main three memory types ,that work.(samy,hynix,micron)


----------



## phill (Dec 7, 2017)

Here's a GPU-Z screenie of my card   Asus Strix 1360/2000 is the stock speeds as it shows, Samsung ram too   I believe it's running 1750 timings from the first flash we did with the cards...  I had tried to run the block chain drivers but they just knocked out the controls and they didn't step down the voltage when the core speeds where downclocked so it made the power usage a lot higher than it needed to be...





If there's anything I can do please drop me a line and I'll try to find out whatever you need


----------



## notb (Dec 7, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Depends on the insurance.


If bank looses money as a result of being hacked, it's its fault and clients are still eligible to whatever they had.
If they bank bankrupts, client funds are guaranteed by the state up to a certain level.
But granted how many security measures are implemented (locking, slowing down batch transfers etc) a large-scale theft seems unlikely.


> I think you greatly underestimate the diffilculty involved in a crypto heist.


Maybe. I'm not an expert. But I know something about bank IT systems, which means there's at least one of the discussed systems that I feel fairly confident discussing .
I wonder how many people in this topic could say that. ;-)

The simple fact is: we had MANY successful hacking attempts on cryptocoins lately. Not so many in banks.



> It's not any harder to hack a bank.  SWIFT was even found to have vulnerabilities this year.  It's just hard to get away with the money and not get caught.


You mean the Bangladesh issue from 2016? It was a result of human error (precisely: network technicians).
So yes, SWIFT is not perfectly safe, but it can be really good if the system is set up properly.

And again: no. Hacking the accounting system in a bank is hugely difficult. Hacking particular accounts (stealing access info from the users) is much easier, but again: not easier than breaking into crypto wallets.

Hacking aside, there are other risk as well. Remember the last case when a programmer wanted to improve one the coins and he locked a huge portion of it?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Dec 7, 2017)

notb said:


> If bank looses money as a result of being hacked, it's its fault and clients are still eligible to whatever they had.
> If they bank bankrupts, client funds are guaranteed by the state up to a certain level.
> But granted how many security measures are implemented (locking, slowing down batch transfers etc) a large-scale theft seems unlikely.
> 
> ...


your quite wrong on one point , it's crypto emergent economies and exchanges at risk , bitcoin itself is not and has not been hacked

And the eastern block criminals have been syphoning cash from european banks most of this year ,fact.


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 8, 2017)

> If bank looses money as a result of being hacked, it's its fault and clients are still eligible to whatever they had.



And what if the records are gone and they can't establish who had what?

It hasn't happened yet, granted.  But that's not to say it's impossible.  It's about as impossible as actually hacking crypto.



> And again: no. Hacking the accounting system in a bank is hugely difficult. Hacking particular accounts (stealing access info from the users) is much easier, but again: not easier than breaking into crypto wallets.



This is a good parallel.  Hacking a web wallet is akin to stealing access info from users via social engineering in a conventional bank.

Crypto itself has not, and probably short of quantum computers will never be, hacked.



> Hacking aside, there are other risk as well. Remember the last case when a programmer wanted to improve one the coins and he locked a huge portion of it?



What coin?  Certainly not a proven mainstream one.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Dec 8, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> And what if the records are gone and they can't establish who had what?
> 
> It hasn't happened yet, granted.  But that's not to say it's impossible.  It's about as impossible as actually hacking crypto.
> 
> ...


Tbf the few miners that tried to force segwit2x soon found due to a bug it stalled at the first block ,but that's also an intellectual way to stop such a thing if it's not to be, bug it.


----------



## notb (Dec 8, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> And what if the records are gone and they can't establish who had what?
> It hasn't happened yet, granted.  But that's not to say it's impossible.  It's about as impossible as actually hacking crypto.


It's way less possible.

In case of banks hackers usually get access to one of the additional modules (usually the client interface). No "records are gone" takes place, but they can generate transactions.
The production system itself is a bit more than some table with client ID and account value. :-D It can't be just overwritten without trace.
As I said earlier: even the system admin, who - in theory - can simply run any SQL on the database, can't steal money that way. The system is designed to prevent that (it's in fact one of the basic requirements it has to fulfill).

And then... what else would you have to hack into, to make the transactions untraceable? Interbank transfer system? Other banks? All mirrors and backups et cetera?
Man... just hack NiceHash instead. 



> Crypto itself has not, and probably short of quantum computers will never be, hacked.


No one talks about hacking the crypto itself. But all the services surrounding open-source cryptos are most likely pretty basic. And you need these services for crypto to have any value.
NiceHash is (was?) just a tiny company that had a good idea. But they didn't have the knowledge, nor the manpower, to make this secure.

BTW: "hacking" modern banknotes (i.e. printing them) is also very difficult. Occasionally you hear a story that someone prints notes at home and uses them in small shops etc. Yes, this happens.
But doing this on a large scale, for a long time - with profit... would be difficult at best.



> What coin?  Certainly not a proven mainstream one.


That's down to the definition of a "proven coin"...
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/08/cryptocurrency-300m-dollars-stolen-bug-ether


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 8, 2017)

notb said:


> It's way less possible.



And now you are underestimating the strength of cryptos math.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Dec 8, 2017)

notb said:


> It's way less possible.
> 
> In case of banks hackers usually get access to one of the additional modules (usually the client interface). No "records are gone" takes place, but they can generate transactions.
> The production system itself is a bit more than some table with client ID and account value. :-D It can't be just overwritten without trace.
> ...


You are wrong on a few points, i can not discuss the why but i assure you ,money grows on trees, mostly by the fed but others have green fingers too.

And people don't need to hack fiat, most criminals use tangential angles to get legit bank cards then defraud them.

That horse of yours is so lofty you have no idea how capable and active low lifes are, im not one but i Do live in Manchester , there's one nearer then the nearest rat here in all likelihood, and there's shit loads of them(rats).

Sorry do go on though.

And again you show a wallet developers botch not even a hack.

I blame middle management , load of head nodding ball sucker's, no one with the nut's to say no works above the pit these days , just millions of companies trying to keep their ass from showing, everywhere.
Im off for beer im clearly ranting lol.


----------



## Papahyooie (Dec 8, 2017)

For those still looking for an alternative to NiceHash: I've found a new one. It's called MiningPoolHub 

https://miningpoolhub.com/

This isn't for the "Push Button, Get Bitcoin" crowd... It's a bear to set up. The easiest way I've found is to download the "Multipoolminer" program, that can be found on the site, (Read the FAQ before beginning) and pointing that at MiningPoolHub. 

What does it offer over MinerGate?
A much less simple setup (I'll help with questions if I can)
Seemingly higher hash rates
Adjusts to the most effective algorithm for your hardware (if you set it up correctly) resulting in better hash rate.
Adjusts on the fly to mine the most effective coin (like NiceHash, but has way more options, IF you set it up correctly to do so)
Can work with custom mining cores (if you set it up correctly.... you see a pattern here...)
Can also just mine a single coin, if you wish
Most options available to be adjusted through the web account (especially to tell all your clients what to mine, with a single dropdown change... very nice.) 
A much more horrible web account interface that is stupidly laid out, and hard to figure out. 
Most important features, to me:
Can mine many coins and deposit each in its own wallet, even changing on the fly
Can auto-withdraw coins from any internal wallet to an external wallet, when it reaches a user-defined threshold (so you don't lose 4k like Trog, if they get hacked)

Most important feature of all that neither NiceHash nor MinerGate can do: It will auto-trade your mined coins for a coin of your choosing (BTC, ofc) and deposit the BTC into your 
internal BTC wallet, which can then be auto-transferred to your external wallet once it gets to your defined threshold (once again, so you don't end up like Trog.... Trog, you may want to spend some
time setting this up lol...) 

NiceHash paid in BTC, which was ok, but you weren't actually getting the full value of your mined coins (because the mined coins didn't belong to you, they belonged to the person paying for the hashing power, and you 
just get paid in BTC.) With this, you're actually trading your actual mined coins for BTC (or any other coin, honestly) which results in higher payout for the work. And on that note, as I alluded to, you don't have to transfer them to BTC. If you're interested in other coins, you can trade all your mined coins for ETH or LTC or whatever. Of you can just keep the coins you mined. It's up to you. (You just have to set it up)

So like say my rigs mine ETC, ETH, and ZEN all day... those coins get deposited into their respective online wallets in my web account. Then, since I've set up auto-trade to BTC, they get traded for BTC and deposited in my BTC web wallet. I set up an auto withdraw to send to my cold storage wallet or Coinbase account, as soon as the BTC wallet reaches the amount I choose. Profit. 

You just have to know your way around a .bat file... 

Good Luck!


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 9, 2017)

Since my fathers care is eating a lot of my time lately, I'm just going to link this guide rather than do a writeup on paper wallets for now:

Read it.  It could save your fortune:

https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com/


----------



## cdawall (Dec 9, 2017)

For those curious. I did have a slight loss in nicehash since I was using that as my main pool, just what was interim before payout. Nothing crazy just absolutely annoying. I have since swapped to one of the other things I was off and on mining (electroneum and BTG), BTG pissed me off on a couple pools and now I am just mining ETN. That seems to be one of if not the most profitable coin out and about right now.






I have an acceptable hashrate with it, this seems to peak around 21kh/s and I am pushing to get that to be a consistent number, but we will see where I end up.


----------



## toilet pepper (Dec 9, 2017)

I've been using mutipoolminer pointed to miningpoolhub since the incident and it is a PITA to set-up. I'm having difficulty setting up awesomeminer as well. Not to say I'm earning half to what I was earning with nicehash.

On another note, nicehash says they'll resume services soon™.


----------



## notb (Dec 9, 2017)

cdawall said:


> I have an acceptable hashrate with it, this seems to peak around 21kh/s and I am pushing to get that to be a consistent number, but we will see where I end up.


So when you say that your earnings didn't go down, you mean hashrate? Seriously?
The interesting part is how this translates into USD. Can you show us a graph for that? You can normalize it to hide the actual amounts.


----------



## cdawall (Dec 9, 2017)

notb said:


> So when you say that your earnings didn't go down, you mean hashrate? Seriously?
> The interesting part is how this translates into USD. Can you show us a graph for that? You can normalize it to hide the actual amounts.



This is the estimator for my current 6hr hashrate which is 16.8kh/s. I don't have an earnings chart to compare it to USD. This is only like 24-28 cards running and mostly Nvidia which isn't the perfect choice for this coin. (1070 heavily outperformed by a 470/480)


----------



## phill (Dec 9, 2017)

Cdawall, could you say what I need to do to run ETN please?  My ETC progress is slow at best but if there's something a little more profitable I'd willingly give it a go...


----------



## cdawall (Dec 9, 2017)

phill said:


> Cdawall, could you say what I need to do to run ETN please?  My ETC progress is slow at best but if there's something a little more profitable I'd willingly give it a go...



What and how many cards?


----------



## phill (Dec 9, 2017)

I've got my AMD 480's, 6 of   Is it worth doing?


----------



## cdawall (Dec 9, 2017)

phill said:


> I've got my AMD 480's, 6 of   Is it worth doing?



With the right miner and setup it'll be making some money.


----------



## phill (Dec 9, 2017)

I'll see if I can get it running, ETC is doing my head in..  It's just too difficult to what it was

I didn't realise you had so many cards as you mentioned above!!  I hope the electric is free!! lol


----------



## cdawall (Dec 9, 2017)

phill said:


> I'll see if I can get it running, ETC is doing my head in..  It's just too difficult to what it was
> 
> I didn't realise you had so many cards as you mentioned above!!  I hope the electric is free!! lol



It pays for itself pretty easily I'm at 9 cent a kw/h with delivery and fees


----------



## phill (Dec 9, 2017)

I'm paying about 13.5p a unit, that's about 18.5 cents a kw/h   It's a little pricey here lol  Not much sun either so I can burn through a lot of power without trying much...  Which reminds me...  I'll go check what I have used on the miner since I have rest the wattage meter.....


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 9, 2017)

cdawall said:


> This is the estimator for my current 6hr hashrate which is 16.8kh/s. I don't have an earnings chart to compare it to USD. This is only like 24-28 cards running and mostly Nvidia which isn't the perfect choice for this coin. (1070 heavily outperformed by a 470/480)


This chart is only with 24-28 card?


----------



## cdawall (Dec 10, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> This chart is only with 24-28 card?



Yes, it is tanking with difficulty increases, but coin value is going up so that might even put here soon.


----------



## Divide Overflow (Dec 10, 2017)

Papahyooie said:


> For those still looking for an alternative to NiceHash: I've found a new one. It's called MiningPoolHub
> 
> https://miningpoolhub.com/
> 
> This isn't for the "Push Button, Get Bitcoin" crowd... It's a bear to set up. The easiest way I've found is to download the "Multipoolminer" program, that can be found on the site, (Read the FAQ before beginning) and pointing that at MiningPoolHub. ...


Nice find Papa.  It wasn't all *that* hard to setup, but their site is absolutely horrid for information on your mining status and balances.  With credits and credited for auto exchange figures on top of delays for transactions appearing, it's almost impossible to get a quick read on profitability and performance.


----------



## r9 (Dec 11, 2017)

Couple days ago I bought GTX 970 for $100 for purpose of mining.
From what I could find on the net I was expecting close to gtx 1060 peformance, but its not even close.
I'm only getting 10 MH/s instead 20+ MH/s what a lot of people are getting.
Enabled Optimized for Compute.
I tried different miners and drivers. I even matched peoples exact Driver/Miner setup.
I also tried Simple mining OS for NV which should be already optimized.
I'm suspecting that it might be something with the ethereum algorithm that has changed.
The newest video on youtube was 6 months old that the card was doing 20+MH/s.
I'm just surprised that that I wasn't able to find any definitive answer.


----------



## cdawall (Dec 11, 2017)

r9 said:


> Couple days ago I bought GTX 970 for $100 for purpose of mining.
> From what I could find on the net I was expecting close to gtx 1060 peformance, but its not even close.
> I'm only getting 10 MH/s instead 20+ MH/s what a lot of people are getting.
> Enabled Optimized for Compute.
> ...



That card just isn't good for ethash based stuff. Mine equihash, nist5, lyra2rev coins and it does a lot better. Pascal is the only nvidia design that does well with ethash coins.


----------



## r9 (Dec 11, 2017)

cdawall said:


> That card just isn't good for ethash based stuff. Mine equihash, nist5, lyra2rev coins and it does a lot better. Pascal is the only nvidia design that does well with ethash coins.



I didn't appreciated Nicehash until was gone. lol
I wasn't even paying attention what was mining most of time.
I kind of suspected that it's to do with etherium.
I just tried to stay to ETH and SIA so I don't have to manage too many pools and wallets.
But per your advice just tried Zcash and the profitability looks much better.
And I also have r9 280 that are affected by the same issue and that AMD mining driver that helps with rx480 doesn't do anything for the r9 280.
I will try zcash on them too.
Thanks cdawall ur the bestest. lol


----------



## cdawall (Dec 11, 2017)

the 280 is a 430h/s card in cryptonight


----------



## dorsetknob (Dec 11, 2017)

The Bit Coin Bubble Road map
Where are we now you can Trade BitCoin futures


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 12, 2017)

dorsetknob said:


> The Bit Coin Bubble Road map
> Where are we now you can Trade BitCoin futures



First time I saw that people were saying $20.00 bitcoin was a "bubble" lol.  Same image.


----------



## cdawall (Dec 12, 2017)

"bitcoin is a bubble"


----------



## notb (Dec 12, 2017)

cdawall said:


> "bitcoin is a bubble"
> [cut]


Oh man... this is rubbish. :-D
Why do you quote this sh.tty analysis here? Do you understand the techniques used? Because I'm pretty sure the author doesn't.


----------



## cdawall (Dec 12, 2017)

notb said:


> Oh man... this is rubbish. :-D
> Why do you quote this sh.tty analysis here? Do you understand the techniques used? Because I'm pretty sure the author doesn't.



OH I do I  think it's about as useful as any other chart like that  you know like the BTC bubble one, but here is to the hope that it hits 1 million a coin.


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 12, 2017)

I have 3 years has a stock analyst and I can tell you that any bitcoin chart is completely wrong. BTC doesnt follow any wall street market chart, it seems to follow some basic charts but nothing that I am trained in. 
I dont care, I'll still invest in cryptocurrencies and contunie mining and building mining machines for people.


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 12, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> I have 3 years has a stock analyst and I can tell you that any bitcoin chart is completely wrong. BTC doesnt follow any wall street market chart, it seems to follow some basic charts but nothing that I am trained in.
> I dont care, I'll still invest in cryptocurrencies and contunie mining and building mining machines for people.



As I have shown repeatedly here, I am great at guessing crypto trends.  The irony is when I am actually doing it for money, the stress makes it very unworthwhile for me.  So instead I just sit here and speculate. LOL


----------



## cdawall (Dec 12, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> I have 3 years has a stock analyst and I can tell you that any bitcoin chart is completely wrong. BTC doesnt follow any wall street market chart, it seems to follow some basic charts but nothing that I am trained in.
> I dont care, I'll still invest in cryptocurrencies and contunie mining and building mining machines for people.



Oh you hush with your logic. Obviously this is exactly like a stock and not a currency or better yet a cryptocurrency.


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 12, 2017)

Its a stock that increases 30% for 5 minutes or litecoin which increases so far 63% today, but the next day it will decrease 40%. What a wild ride these "cryptocurrencies" have.


----------



## notb (Dec 12, 2017)

cdawall said:


> OH I do I  think it's about as useful as any other chart like that  you know like the BTC bubble one, but here is to the hope that it hits 1 million a coin.


Well.. technical analysis kind of works, but there is some idea behind it that doesn't have to be true in a particular case.
Mathematically speaking: it's just a simplified approach that assumes there is a specific stochastic process that describes the stock price. In other words: you're assuming it's not fully random.
So if you analyze the stock, estimate some parameters and so on, technical analysis could actually work.

Sadly, what happened in the discussed graph: the author has simply drawn some random lines. 

You think this is funny? Think again... What actuaries do for living is basically this:



It's a triangle method (you're assuming reality will develop like it did in the past). In year 2016 you had 3 losses reported, but someone else came to you a year later (you know... a year after the accident he decided that losing a foot is an issue). For 2017 you have 2 losses already. How many in total will be reported after the next year? 4/3*2 ~= 2.67, obviously.
So on daily basis I'm doing sh*tty stuff like this, but thankfully, there is a proper mathematical theory which states that sometimes this actually works.


----------



## R0H1T (Dec 12, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Its a stock that increases 30% for 5 minutes or litecoin which increases so far 63% today, but the next day it will decrease 40%. What a wild ride these "cryptocurrencies" have.


This is nothing, with BTC *F&O* people will play roulette with a deck of cards


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 12, 2017)

R0H1T said:


> This is nothing, with BTC *F&O* people will play roulette with a deck of cards



Actually, what he described is a pretty wild ride even for BTC.  Though hardly unheard of.


----------



## R0H1T (Dec 12, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Actually, what he described is a pretty wild ride even for BTC.


I guess but F&O adds another layer of unneeded volatility.


----------



## notb (Dec 12, 2017)

R0H1T said:


> This is nothing, with BTC *F&O* people will play roulette with a deck of cards


Some will, but who are we to judge? Guns (like futures) where originally created as a safety measure (i.e. you could defend yourself from an enemy stronger or bigger - something that hadn't been true for melee combat). And look what happened with this concept...

Few months ago I described here a hedging strategy that lowers mining risk (revenue variability). But without derivatives it's a pretty costly and difficult endeavour.
With regulated futures / options it suddenly becomes very easy. You want to mine $10 a day for the next month (not the random price that the market serves you)? You can buy a futures contract that will guarantee just that. It's really a standard issue in production. Coal mines buy coal futures. Food manufacturers buy rice futures. Car manufacturers buy futures for whatever they can (metal, rubber, oil). And, obviously, everyone buys currency futures if they're heavily dependent on foreign trade.

If we want cryptocurrencies to be treated seriously and useful in the future, we need derivatives - they will stabilize the market and drawn many more commercial partners.
Sure: they will also be used by speculators, but it's almost impossible to prevent.



R0H1T said:


> I guess but F&O adds another layer of unneeded volatility.


On the contrary. They will stabilize cryptos. 
Cryptocurrencies we discuss here (like BTC) are not supported by a state nor a corporation. There is no one I could _play against_ using a leveraged derivative. There is no economic or industrial data that says how much a single BTC is worth. It's all pretty erratic.
Derivatives won't magically fix this. But they could result in large players joining the market (states, banks, other firms using BTC).

Just an example for you:
Steam has just withdrawn support of BTC, because it's too volatile for them. They don't want to take the risk. But if they could buy a BTC derivative, they would be able to stabilize their BTC prices.


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 12, 2017)

notb said:


> Steam has just withdrawn support of BTC, because it's too volatile for them. They don't want to take the risk. But if they could buy a BTC derivative, they would be able to stabilize their BTC prices.



I agree with most of your post, but far more an issue for steam was the outragous transaction fees I think.   The rest is my views to a tee.


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 12, 2017)

Maybe it was the transaction cost but I think also  the time it takes to finalize the transaction. It could take hours to finalize the payment. In that time, btc just dropped 10% or increased 15%.


----------



## notb (Dec 12, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> I agree with most of your post, but far more an issue for steam was the outragous transaction fees I think.   The rest is my views to a tee.


Transaction fees don't help and they were mentioned in the official statement. Clearly, BTC - as a payment method - is rubbish (just how ironic is that...).

But lets forget about Steam. Imagine you are running a shop. Would you accept BTC today? 
I'm pretty shocked anyone does. I wonder how is Newegg coping, but since this is a Chinese company, they might have a huge BTC mining farm beside the electronic store business...


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 12, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Maybe it was the transaction cost but I think also  the time it takes to finalize the transaction. It could take hours to finalize the payment. In that time, btc just dropped 10% or increased 15%.



That's not really an issue when you are using a payment processor that eats the difference.  Steam was.  The issue is a $7+ transaction fee on a at most, $60.00 video game.  That's like a bloody sales tax...



notb said:


> Transaction fees don't help and they were mentioned in the official statement. Clearly, BTC - as a payment method - is rubbish (just how ironic is that...).
> 
> But lets forget about Steam. Imagine you are running a shop. Would you accept BTC today?
> I'm pretty shocked anyone does. I wonder how is Newegg coping, but since this is a Chinese company, they might have a huge BTC mining farm beside the electronic store business...



Newegg uses the same payment processor as steam (doesn't deal in any actual bitcoins as such), but doesn't really care about the end consumer as much IMO.  The only thing that will make them reconsider having it is a large number of confused buyers with failed transactions, which will likely start happening soon.

Bitcoin is best viewed as a beta of an online currency, and one that isn't very good honestly.  As an actual implementation, it is dying in several ways for real world currency use.  There are way better options out there.


----------



## Nordic (Dec 12, 2017)

I used to mine bitcoins and litecoins in 2009-2011. I sold off quite a few at $30 and at $300, which was some extreme profits on my end for the time. I used this money to move and do not regret the value it could have had today.

I do believe bitcoin is in a bubble. I base this belief on media attention and public knowledge of crypto coins. Most people I talk to outside of techie circles know of bitcoin but don't know much about it. When everyday people are asking how they can get into it, I take that to mean that there is too much enthusiasm. Before 2008 many people were buying houses bigger than they could afford. Before the 1930's many people were putting everything they had into the booming stock market. When it seems like too much of a sure thing to what are essentially layman, then I am going to expect a bubble.

I say this here because I value the opinions of certain people who participate in this thread, and I am curious what your response is. I am a fan of crypto overall. I agree with @R-T-B that sooner or later a better crypto coin will take over, but I don't think it will happen until a bitcoin market correction.

I could probably crash bitcoin today if I invested in it, given my usual luck. Should I?


----------



## silkstone (Dec 12, 2017)

I think it is way overvalued at the moment too. As you say, there is too much enthusiasm for what 'could be', but no real value inherent in crypo yet. I think it will crash, then people will lose both money and interest. After the crash a few 'key' coins will rise again. Personally, I think XRP has a lot of long term potential, from following the development and marketing of it. I also believe that there is a place for coins like ZEC and XMR, but not long-term at their current price points. Bitcoin is still too slow and expensive to be of any real use and I think ETH will eventually replace it.


----------



## trog100 (Dec 12, 2017)

bitcoin is the daddy and all attention is on it..

but sunday night i paid £482 UK pounds for 4 more litecoin to add to my recent acquired  21.5 litcoin stash.. giving me 25.5 in all..

that £482 buy which included a rip off £20  fee now stands at over £1100 and my 25.5 litecoin stash stands at £7234 uk pounds.. call that about $10000 dollars or so..

not a bad profit and i am rather hoping that litecoin in 2018 does what bitcoin did at the beginning of 2017.. head for the moon.. he he

my figures over the day.. in UK pounds..

11/12/2017  09:47

litecoin   £4794   £188 per coin

etherium   £1580  £397 per coin

total    £6374

11/12/2017  14:23

litecoin   £7234   £283 per coin

etherium   £1754  £438 per coin

total    £8988

trog

ps.. is it a bubble.. maybe but its got plenty of time to grow before bursting..


----------



## Papahyooie (Dec 13, 2017)

Anyone still using MinerGate? I switched over to Mining Pool Hub, but I mined on MinerGate for several days. I gave it a couple of days for MinerGate to finish all it has to do for my "ending" balance to be correct... Apparently 4 days worth of mining with 3 graphics cards netted me $3.95 worth of ZCash.... wtf? On Nicehash (and now on Mining Pool Hub) I do well over 5 bucks a day. Small potatoes for sure, but that's not the point. I don't know what the heck MinerGate is pulling, but that's nonsense. My hashrates were similar to my NiceHash rates. Anybody seeing actual profit happening on MinerGate?


----------



## trog100 (Dec 13, 2017)

i have just started using minergate last thursday.. six days now.. 10 x 1070 cards.. i manually set it to mine eth.. no smart mining stuff.. 

it tells me i have mined about 200 dollars or just over .3 of a coin.. my only snag is they have etherium withdrawals shut down for maintenance.. 

i am still making my mind up about them..

they did answer my query about this which i take as good sign..

Hello,

Thank you for your query.
Ethereum withdrawals are  temporarily disabled due to a technical maintenance. We are walking  extra miles to complete it at shortest delays.
Please accept our deep apologies for inconvenience caused.

Best
Inge Solberg
MinerGate Support team

trog


----------



## Papahyooie (Dec 13, 2017)

I had manually set to mine zcash. Didn't use the smart mining. Maybe I just haven't waited long enough.


----------



## lemkeant (Dec 13, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i have just started using minergate last thursday.. six days now.. 10 x 1070 cards.. i manually set it to mine eth.. no smart mining stuff..
> 
> it tells me i have mined about 200 dollars or just over .3 of a coin.. my only snag is they have etherium withdrawals shut down for maintenance..
> 
> ...



Those of you using Minergate, stop. They dont pay out very well (as in what you could earn). You're much better off using a regular pool and regular wallet. 

We'll have to see what happens with Nicehash, but in the meantime, Miningpoolhub seems to be the best "similar" alternative. At least use that if you're looking for an all in 1


----------



## trog100 (Dec 13, 2017)

my minergate output is okay for what i expect for my hardware.. my only gripe is they say the withdrawal system isnt working.. its down for maintenance..

my 10 x 1070 cards are showing 210 dollars in my minergate account for six days mining.. that  is plenty good enough for me.. thats 35 dollars per day mining etherium..

unless i see some actual figures i  have reached the point where i dont believe a word i read.. there is just too much copy and paste bollocks doing the rounds..

trog


----------



## trog100 (Dec 13, 2017)

minergate actual figures for six days mining ehterium..







no  hearsay copy and paste sh-t from me.. just the actual figures.. which i recon are pretty good for six days mining..

trog


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## yotano211 (Dec 13, 2017)

trog100 said:


> minergate actual figures for six days mining ehterium..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are being cheated. You said you mine with 10x 1070s. Your hash rate should be around 260mh/s at stock to 300mh/s overclocked.


----------



## trog100 (Dec 13, 2017)

my hash rate on the front end gui seems to vary.. at times its up to 366.. i dont understand where that 198.2 figures come from or the 366 figure.. or what governs things on the gui front end but it is all over the place..

the dollar gain dosnt fit in with a low hash rate ether..

i mined  with nicehash for three months.. at first i saw 20 dollars per day.. that fairly quickly dropped off to 15 dollars per day and then went up to around 25 dollars per day before nicehash went down..

i dont think the gui front end always makes sense..

my actual two card desktop miner makes sense.. and so does my 8 card mining rig which shows 240 mhs.. a total of 300 mhs for the pair.. as it should be

plus 35 dollars per day (3.5 dollars per day per 1070)  or 245 dollars per week for sure aint being cheated.. i can only assume the low 198 mhs or the high 366 gui front end figures are wrong or some kind of average4 dont mean that much.. 

i do know minergate can go for ages and not show any gain and then jump up quite rapidly.. its output isnt consistent unlike nicehash which was..

i will keep an eye on it and see where how it goes up and down and maybe find out why.. ..






the bottom line is though.. i go by what the eth or dollar outputs are.. these are very good.. i dont think i am being cheated.. or that minergate pays out low.. assuming it eventually does payout.. he he..

trog

ps.. i just spent ten minutes watching that gui hash rate.. every half minute or so it jumps about.. during the time i was watching it.. it went from lows of  250 ish to highs of 350 ish.. i would guess the real hash rate would be some kind of average we dont get to see..


----------



## insane 360 (Dec 13, 2017)

greetings all, 

recently started to get my head around mining, been watching it for a long time and kicking myself for not doing anything...

long story short, i've started on mining pool hub and just trying with equipment i have on hand (dual xeon x5675) and mining Myriad Coin for fun. i know they are near worthless right now but just by trying it out i've learned more practical knowledge then i had prior to this.  

its still the first day of real mining (was lots of errors getting here) but my 24 threads of 3ghz are pulling in about 6-9 kH/s  my power is pretty cheap so i'm not worried about it as its just a side hobby while my computer is idle...and if this coin does pick up from .005 that its currently at then who knows maybe it will be more than fun or a stepping point to something else.

anyone else CPU mining ATM?


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## trog100 (Dec 13, 2017)

insane 360 said:


> greetings all,
> 
> recently started to get my head around mining, been watching it for a long time and kicking myself for not doing anything...
> 
> ...



i dont cpu mine because  it dosnt produce enough to bother.. i will give you one tip.. if you do want to make some money as well as mine for fun.. dont buy mining hardware just buy some eth or litecoin and watch them go up.. my little stash has gone up by around $8000 since sunday night.. i have mined about $150 dollars in the same time.. he he

see here https://coinranking.com/


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## R-T-B (Dec 13, 2017)

Papahyooie said:


> Anyone still using MinerGate? I switched over to Mining Pool Hub, but I mined on MinerGate for several days. I gave it a couple of days for MinerGate to finish all it has to do for my "ending" balance to be correct... Apparently 4 days worth of mining with 3 graphics cards netted me $3.95 worth of ZCash.... wtf? On Nicehash (and now on Mining Pool Hub) I do well over 5 bucks a day. Small potatoes for sure, but that's not the point. I don't know what the heck MinerGate is pulling, but that's nonsense. My hashrates were similar to my NiceHash rates. Anybody seeing actual profit happening on MinerGate?



I'd say avoid minergate.  That sounds way too low to be correct.


----------



## trog100 (Dec 13, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> I'd say avoid minergate.  That sounds way too low to be correct.



as an impartial observer RTB what do you recon to my 35 dollars per day on minergate.. or .3125 eth over six days..

i hate mysteries.. is minergatee any good or isnt it.. he he

i have done plenty of google research used it for six days and still havnt a clue.. 

what papa says seems to be 100% in conflict with what i say..  i hate mysteries they serve no useful purpose at all.. more so if they are left hanging in the air with no attempt made to  solve them.. which to be honest is the internet all over.. too many opinions  all conflicting with each other and total confusion being the end result .. he he

trog


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## Papahyooie (Dec 13, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> I'd say avoid minergate.  That sounds way too low to be correct.


It may just be that I haven't waited long enough to be credited all that is due. I started mining with them right before trog did, and only made 2 bucks though? With a 980ti, a 970 and a R9 280? Yea, definitely wrong, one way or another. I will keep checking, and maybe they will update it eventually. 

Either way, I've moved on to Mining Pool Hub, and they are vastly superior. Especially being able to get paid in any coin I want is awesome.


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## trog100 (Dec 14, 2017)

my latest minergate update.. the withdrawals are now working and the total mined figures for one week are.. $242 US dollars or .32 eth.. 

this seems good enough to me and matches the benchmarks estimate.. which for my system showed 36 dollars per day but the eth price has gone up a fair bit since i ran the benchmark a week ago.. how this effects things i dont know..

trog


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## yotano211 (Dec 14, 2017)

trog100 said:


> my latest minergate update.. the withdrawals are now working and the total mined figures for one week are.. $242 US dollars or .32 eth..
> 
> this seems good enough to me and matches the benchmarks estimate.. which for my system showed 36 dollars per day but the eth price has gone up a fair bit since i ran the benchmark a week ago.. how this effects things i dont know..
> 
> trog


This is my ETH mining chart. The blue line is the actual mining rate, it rarely goes above the green, the reported rate. The orange line is the average rate over 24 hours.


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## trog100 (Dec 14, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> This is my ETH mining chart. The blue line is the actual mining rate, it rarely goes above the green, the reported rate. The orange line is the average rate over 24 hours.



if that is for a 24 hour period the .120 eth looks remarkably.. over a week that would be 0.8 eth.. or am i reading things wrong.. i recon i must be.. 

trog


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## yotano211 (Dec 14, 2017)

trog100 said:


> if that is for a 24 hour period the .120 eth looks remarkably.. over a week that would be 0.8 eth.. or am i reading things wrong.. i recon i must be..
> 
> trog


I average 0.22641 per day


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## trog100 (Dec 14, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> I average 0.22641 per day



 running what hardware.. ??

.226 eth per day would be 1.582 eth per week.. which at current eth prices would be over $750 per week.. 

trog


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## silkstone (Dec 14, 2017)

trog100 said:


> running what hardware.. ??
> 
> .226 eth per day would be 1.582 eth per week.. which at current eth prices would be over $750 per week..
> 
> trog



More like $1k a week. I'm pretty sure yotano has a few dedicated rigs.


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## trog100 (Dec 14, 2017)

silkstone said:


> More like $1k a week. I'm pretty sure yotano has a few dedicated rigs.




yes i was getting him mixed up with papa for a while.. he he

trog


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## yotano211 (Dec 14, 2017)

trog100 said:


> running what hardware.. ??
> 
> .226 eth per day would be 1.582 eth per week.. which at current eth prices would be over $750 per week..
> 
> trog


I'm running this below.

Nvidia
#1    7x 1070
#5    7x 1080
#21   4x 1070   2x 1080
#13   6x 1070
#16   2x 1080ti  2x 1080
#22   6x 1070ti
#25   4x 1070ti  2x 1070
#14   1x 1080ti  5x 1060 3gb
#15   2x 1080ti   3x 1080  1x 1070

AMD
#10  6x rx470
#20  6x rx470
I am gettting rid of all AMD and all of the 1060s. I want to do 8 gpus per rig. I am getting dual power supplies for those but for next month.
I know 1080s and 1080ti are bad for mining ETH, I am looking to mine another coin when I get dual psu running.


----------



## moproblems99 (Dec 14, 2017)

Greetings everyone,

I recently picked up an RX 580 (MSI Armor) to try out.  I know they can get to 29+ m/h and should be 24 to 25 out of the box.  I have found that I can only get about 19 - 20m/h overclocked.  I also crash instantly if I try to use the Block Chain driver from AMD.  Granted, this is currently just being tested on a Windows 7 SP1 rig without any other updates.  

Should I bother with the flashing of the BIOS and other enhancements?  I am unsure at the moment what brand ram it is or anything else as I have been a little more busy then normal.  I believe GPuZ will tell me if I am not mistaken?


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## yotano211 (Dec 14, 2017)

moproblems99 said:


> Greetings everyone,
> 
> I recently picked up an RX 580 (MSI Armor) to try out.  I know they can get to 29+ m/h and should be 24 to 25 out of the box.  I have found that I can only get about 19 - 20m/h overclocked.  I also crash instantly if I try to use the Block Chain driver from AMD.  Granted, this is currently just being tested on a Windows 7 SP1 rig without any other updates.
> 
> Should I bother with the flashing of the BIOS and other enhancements?  I am unsure at the moment what brand ram it is or anything else as I have been a little more busy then normal.  I believe GPuZ will tell me if I am not mistaken?


To get any higher hash rate you will need to mod the memory timings and a overclock.


----------



## trog100 (Dec 14, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> I'm running this below.
> 
> Nvidia
> #1    7x 1070
> ...



my 8 x 1070 miner.. i run another two in my desktop machine'.. roughly 300 mhs in all.. 30 mh -sh per card







trog


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## yotano211 (Dec 14, 2017)

trog100 said:


> my 8 x 1070 miner.. i run another two in my desktop machine'.. roughly 300 mhs in all.. 30 mh -sh per card
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where did you get the open air frame from and what power supply are you using.


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## trog100 (Dec 14, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Where did you get the open air frame from and what power supply are you using.



they  are on ebay.. i think they are nice and they stack..

i was gonna use two evga golds around 750 watts but ended  up with two corsair 850 units..

its all been running faultlessly for about 14 weeks now.. it draws around 1200 watts from the wall..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8-GPU-Al...208728?hash=item41cd2ddb18:g:700AAOSwDmtZllk6

mine came from UK stock but its the same thing..

trog


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## yotano211 (Dec 14, 2017)

trog100 said:


> they  are on ebay.. i think they are nice and they stack..
> 
> i was gonna use two evga golds around 750 watts but ended  up with two corsair 850 units..
> 
> ...


You really need to throttle the 8 gpu mining rig. Use aferburner to throttle it, my 7 1080 rig only uses about 760 watts throttled to 56%, each card still mines at 22.8mh/s.


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## trog100 (Dec 14, 2017)

7 x 22.8  is 159.6 mh for 760 watts

8 x 30 is 240 mh for 1200 watts.. not such a lot of difference

all my cards are running stock core speeds (about 1860 boost) plus 600 on the memory at 90% power eth likes fast memory.... i use the palit thunder master software to tune the cards i prefer it to afterburner..

basically my priority wasnt cutting my power bills it was grabbing as much bitcoin as quickly as i could.. over the three months i was mining my stash went up to $3500 dollars or 270 dollars per week on average.. double what nicehash was paying me.. my the time i got to .3 of a bitcoin i was seeing some nice weekly gains simply from the way bitcoin was going up.. i am a hodler.. he he

my power bill was easily covered and any attempts to cut the 1200 watts also cut the hash output.. which was the last thing i wanted.. 

trog

ps.. its a shame some f-cker nicked it all just when it was starting to get interesting.. that $3550 would at close to £6000 now bitcoin is at $16500 or so..


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## yotano211 (Dec 14, 2017)

trog100 said:


> 7 x 22.8  is 159.6 mh for 760 watts
> 
> 8 x 30 is 240 mh for 1200 watts.. not such a lot of difference
> 
> ...


You dont get it, you will to lower the throttle or the throttle limit on those 1070s, it will bring down the core clock and leave the memory speed alone. And who cares about the amount of 1080 or 1070s, the 1080 sucks at ETH mining, I know that.  I'm sure my 7 1070 rig power limited to 63% will draw a lot less power than your rig at 8 or 7 GPUs. 
You wont get less mining speed with a lower throttle limit, you will see less power draw and a little higher daily profit and less heat in the house.


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## moproblems99 (Dec 14, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> To get any higher hash rate you will need to mod the memory timings and a overclock.



I was initially curious if I had a crappy card if I should return it.  However, I think I have changed my mind and will use it as a card to play with a BIOS with as a learning experiment.  I have read there are lots of 'versions' of Polaris 1.4 where people make mods to Polaris.  Is there a specific one I should look for?


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## trog100 (Dec 15, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> You dont get it, you will to lower the throttle or the throttle limit on those 1070s, it will bring down the core clock and leave the memory speed alone. And who cares about the amount of 1080 or 1070s, the 1080 sucks at ETH mining, I know that.  I'm sure my 7 1070 rig power limited to 63% will draw a lot less power than your rig at 8 or 7 GPUs.
> You wont get less mining speed with a lower throttle limit, you will see less power draw and a little higher daily profit and less heat in the house.




i can soon try it on my desktop rig.. its fiddly to adjust the eight card ring which is outside in the shed but easy to play with my desktop rig from the comfort of my armchair..

mind you i have  said that i am not all that bothered about saving a relatively small amount on my power bill and i can easily drop the boost speed as low as i want to go.. but what do i use as measuring  stick.. my hash rate.. ??

trog


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## silkstone (Dec 15, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i can soon try it on my desktop rig.. its fiddly to adjust the eight card ring which is outside in the shed but easy to play with my desktop rig from the comfort of my armchair..
> 
> mind you i have  said that i am not all that bothered about saving a relatively small amount on my power bill and i can easily drop the boost speed as low as i want to go.. but what do i use as measuring  stick.. my hash rate.. ??
> 
> trog



If you are mining ETH, you can drop the core clock and the TDP and raise the memory. You'll generally get less power draw and a higher hash rate than stock.

If you're mining ZEC, you can just drop the TDP to 70 - 90% and you'll notice a lot less power usage and lower temps with only the smallest drop in hash rate.

That is my experience with Nvidia cards, at least.


----------



## trog100 (Dec 15, 2017)

silkstone said:


> If you are mining ETH, you can drop the core clock and the TDP and raise the memory. You'll generally get less power draw and a higher hash rate than stock.
> 
> If you're mining ZEC, you can just drop the TDP to 70 - 90% and you'll notice a lot less power usage and lower temps with only the smallest drop in hash rate.
> 
> That is my experience with Nvidia cards, at least.



i have just lowered the power to 75% on all the 1070 cards in my 8 card mining rig.. power from the wall has gone down to 1050 watts with a monitor running and 1000 watts without it..

a nice drop from the 1250/1200 its been at..  the core boost has dropped by 200 or so but the hash rate is the same.. 243 ms for all 8 cards.. the memory is at plus 600..

i was paying to much attention to keeping the core boost clock high.. it seems a high core clock dosnt help with mining eth.. it just wastes power..

memory speeds make a big difference but not core speeds..

trog


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## phill (Dec 15, 2017)

This is why my draw Trog was low, I downclocked the core and overclocked the ram   Trouble is I think the older AMD cards are affected by the DAG files were as the newer Vega cards are not.  No point in my head to run hotter, louder and not much faster if you get 90% of the performance or so using less power   More profit, less power drawn


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## silkstone (Dec 15, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i have just lowered the power to 75% on all the 1070 cards in my 8 card mining rig.. power from the wall has gone down to 1050 watts with a monitor running and 1000 watts without it..
> 
> a nice drop from the 1250/1200 its been at..  the core boost has dropped by 200 or so but the hash rate is the same.. 243 ms for all 8 cards.. the memory is at plus 600..
> 
> ...



You'll actually make more mining ZCash with the 1070's. Check it out


----------



## trog100 (Dec 15, 2017)

i have a small 4.3 eth stash currently  at $2924..  i am mining eth just to add to it.. i dont want to mess with too many different coins.. i am into eth and litecoin.. 

trog


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## phill (Dec 15, 2017)

@trog100  I bet the recent increase in ETH price has made you smile??


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## silkstone (Dec 15, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i have a small 4.3 eth stash currently  at $2924..  i am mining eth just to add to it.. i dont want to mess with too many different coins.. i am into eth and litecoin..
> 
> trog



You can always just exchange from one coin to another, that's what I do. If it's not worth the hassle, then fair enough, but extra $$ is extra $$.


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## trog100 (Dec 15, 2017)

phill said:


> @trog100  I bet the recent increase in ETH price has made you smile??



yes but the increase in litecoin more so.. over the last month i have acquired 28.2 of the f-cking things..

i have 4.3 eth and 28.2 litecoin.. coast around $4500 dollars.. current value around $12000 dollars..  i would have spent less for the coin but f-cking coinbase has me on a £750 quid weekly limit from my visa card.. it was lower at £500 quid.

my first £500 spend got me 8 litecoin.. my last £500 spend only got me two.. which shows you what has happened to the litecoin price.. luckily i bought the eth six week or so back..

trog


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## cdawall (Dec 15, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> I am gettting rid of all AMD and all of the 1060s. I want to do 8 gpus per rig. I am getting dual power supplies for those but for next month.
> I know 1080s and 1080ti are bad for mining ETH, I am looking to mine another coin when I get dual psu running.



How much are you selling them for?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Dec 15, 2017)

So minergate I've used it a week, since once you start it up you have a threshold pre payout but i  think it the loopiest pile ,all it wants to mine is xrm and it's not earning well or stable.


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 15, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> So minergate I've used it a week, since once you start it up you have a threshold pre payout but i  think it the loopiest pile ,all it wants to mine is xrm and it's not earning well or stable.


I had the same problem with minergate. All it wanted to mine was xrm, or monero. I didnt get it, ETH has double the profit of xrm but stupid minergate still mined xrm. 
I stopped using it within 6 hours.



trog100 said:


> i can soon try it on my desktop rig.. its fiddly to adjust the eight card ring which is outside in the shed but easy to play with my desktop rig from the comfort of my armchair..
> 
> mind you i have  said that i am not all that bothered about saving a relatively small amount on my power bill and i can easily drop the boost speed as low as i want to go.. but what do i use as measuring  stick.. my hash rate.. ??
> 
> trog


On 1070s, I found that 67% is the lowest it will go before it affects hash rate,  for some reason the 1070ti, I can set it to 54% without affect.
With the lower operating temps of the 8 1070s, the fans will spin lower and should fast longer.


----------



## moproblems99 (Dec 15, 2017)

@yotano211 Do you have a solid resource for the polaris bios editor?  I saw the timings somewhere so I am sure I can find them again.  Appears that not all versions of the editor are created equal though.


----------



## cdawall (Dec 15, 2017)

moproblems99 said:


> @yotano211 Do you have a solid resource for the polaris bios editor?  I saw the timings somewhere so I am sure I can find them again.  Appears that not all versions of the editor are created equal though.



cough there is thread on this forum just for polaris bios's cough.


----------



## trog100 (Dec 15, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> On 1070s, I found that 67% is the lowest it will go before it affects hash rate,  for some reason the 1070ti, I can set it to 54% without affect.
> With the lower operating temps of the 8 1070s, the fans will spin lower and should fast longer.



i would guess its because the TI comes with a higher power usage figure to start with.. the 1070 cards run nice and cool to start.. my desktop with a couple of palit 1070 card in it is running 65 C on the core with the fans at 65%... the room ambient is about 20 C.. compared to my earlier 980TI cards its an icebox

an open air rig will ether run cooler or the same but with lower fans speed.. ether way cooling isnt a problem with a 1070 unless the ambient temps are very high.. 

my desktop is at 75% power i dont want to lower my gaming performance too much.. he he

trog


----------



## moproblems99 (Dec 15, 2017)

cdawall said:


> cough there is thread on this forum just for polaris bios's cough.



Thanks, I literally just got the card and started poking around.  Why I love TPU.


----------



## cdawall (Dec 16, 2017)

moproblems99 said:


> Thanks, I literally just got the card and started poking around.  Why I love TPU.


Not a problem that's what it is there for.


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 16, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i would guess its because the TI comes with a higher power usage figure to start with.. the 1070 cards run nice and cool to start.. my desktop with a couple of palit 1070 card in it is running 65 C on the core with the fans at 65%... the room ambient is about 20 C.. compared to my earlier 980TI cards its an icebox
> 
> an open air rig will ether run cooler or the same but with lower fans speed.. ether way cooling isnt a problem with a 1070 unless the ambient temps are very high..
> 
> ...


Tomorrow I will check on the power draw of 1070 vs 1070ti at a much lower power limit. I wanted to know the power draw of the 1070ti with a lower power limit.


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 16, 2017)

moproblems99 said:


> @yotano211 Do you have a solid resource for the polaris bios editor?  I saw the timings somewhere so I am sure I can find them again.  Appears that not all versions of the editor are created equal though.


I got with the bios editor from the internet but this was almost 9-10 months ago when I last edited any bios. I searched for bios mod on youtube and started from there.


----------



## trog100 (Dec 16, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Tomorrow I will check on the power draw of 1070 vs 1070ti at a much lower power limit. I wanted to know the power draw of the 1070ti with a lower power limit.



a 1070TI is very nearly a 1080 but with the same memory as a 1070.. the stock power draw will be a fair bit higher.. very nearly the same as a 1080.. 

which would be the best for mining taking price and everything into account i really dont know.. ??

trog


----------



## verycharbroiled (Dec 16, 2017)

trog100 said:


> a 1070TI is very nearly a 1080 but with the same memory as a 1070.. the stock power draw will be a fair bit higher.. very nearly the same as a 1080..
> 
> which would be the best for mining taking price and everything into account i really dont know.. ??
> trog



i think the 1070ti is the most well rounded card. its got great power efficiency and can mine most any algo decently. seems the most future proof as you can throw pretty much anything at it and it does well. in comparing it against other cards i have (rx470s, 1070, 1080ti,) its my favorite card so far. other cards may excel at one or two algos, but the 1070ti wont be far behind.

definitely going to pick up a couple more.


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 16, 2017)

trog100 said:


> a 1070TI is very nearly a 1080 but with the same memory as a 1070.. the stock power draw will be a fair bit higher.. very nearly the same as a 1080..
> 
> which would be the best for mining taking price and everything into account i really dont know.. ??
> 
> trog


It really depends on the coin that you're mining. The 1080 hates ETH but loves BTG.


----------



## moproblems99 (Dec 17, 2017)

So I tried to get a wallet setup with SIA-UI but it filled my hd up and won't stop.  I thought the blockchain was only about 4GB.  Thoughts?


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 17, 2017)

moproblems99 said:


> So I tried to get a wallet setup with SIA-UI but it filled my hd up and won't stop.  I thought the blockchain was only about 4GB.  Thoughts?


How big is your HD


----------



## moproblems99 (Dec 18, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> How big is your HD



It is about 90GB.

Another question, any idea why the blockchain driver would cause crash the system when any load is placed on the card?  It loads windows just fine and I can do anything except put a load on it.


----------



## silkstone (Dec 18, 2017)

moproblems99 said:


> So I tried to get a wallet setup with SIA-UI but it filled my hd up and won't stop.  I thought the blockchain was only about 4GB.  Thoughts?



It sounds like you have allocated a portion of your HDD to the distributed cloud storage system.


----------



## moproblems99 (Dec 18, 2017)

silkstone said:


> It sounds like you have allocated a portion of your HDD to the distributed cloud storage system.



That appears to be the case but I don't have a choice to not allow it.  I need to see if there is documentation for opting out in the console.


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 18, 2017)

moproblems99 said:


> It is about 90GB.
> 
> Another question, any idea why the blockchain driver would cause crash the system when any load is placed on the card?  It loads windows just fine and I can do anything except put a load on it.


maybe you need more virtual memory


----------



## moproblems99 (Dec 18, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> maybe you need more virtual memory



I think I am just going to return the card.


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 18, 2017)

moproblems99 said:


> I think I am just going to return the card.


There's over 1200 coins you can mine, pick one and let it ride.


----------



## silkstone (Dec 18, 2017)

moproblems99 said:


> That appears to be the case but I don't have a choice to not allow it.  I need to see if there is documentation for opting out in the console.



When I installed the sia wallet, it was off by default. Not sure why the one you have has it on. You actually have to contract out your HDD space, it gives you an option to enter the number of sia you want per GB used.


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 18, 2017)

silkstone said:


> When I installed the sia wallet, it was off by default. Not sure why the one you have has it on. You actually have to contract out your HDD space, it gives you an option to enter the number of sia you want per GB used.


weird, never heard of a coin that does that just for a wallet
The only coin I heard that would use a HD is burst coin, but that is to mine it, not to be used for a wallet.


----------



## silkstone (Dec 18, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> weird, never heard of a coin that does that just for a wallet
> The only coin I heard that would use a HD is burst coin, but that is to mine it, not to be used for a wallet.



It's not the wallet per se, it's what sia is. It's basically a distributed cloud storage system that you can pay for with sia coins. You have the option to create contracts leasing your HDD space for a set amount. It has pretty good potential, it really just depends on how well industry takes to it.


----------



## moproblems99 (Dec 18, 2017)

silkstone said:


> When I installed the sia wallet, it was off by default. Not sure why the one you have has it on. You actually have to contract out your HDD space, it gives you an option to enter the number of sia you want per GB used.



I just deleted all the SIA files and directories and started over.  Seems to be ok now.



yotano211 said:


> There's over 1200 coins you can mine, pick one and let it ride.



I have another 580 coming tomorrow to see if I have any better results.


----------



## silkstone (Dec 19, 2017)

WTH is going on with the prices right now? They are going through the roof!

I've sold about $700 worth of coins over the past month to upgrade various rigs and up my hash rate. I wish I'd have waited until now as that $700 would be worth $1200 today!


----------



## Christianespinosaair (Dec 19, 2017)

Can you offer some more options?


----------



## trog100 (Dec 19, 2017)

silkstone said:


> WTH is going on with the prices right now? They are going through the roof!
> 
> I've sold about $700 worth of coins over the past month to upgrade various rigs and up my hash rate. I wish I'd have waited until now as that $700 would be worth $1200 today!



700 worth of litecoin owned  a month ago would now be worth 2800

there is a message here.. never sell your stash to get dollars .. if desperate for money borrow some but never sell your stash.. become a f-cking hodler..

over the last month i have spent 3 grand buying litecoin.. its now worth 8 grand.. a nice five grand profit over the last  couple of weeks..

this sh-t compounds as well.. if my current 8K does the same as my 3k has done over the last week and goes up by %150 i might have 20K my next week..

take this sh-t forwards and even a small amount is worth hanging on to..

purely my own thinking but i recon eth and ltc are gonna go up massively.. along with a few other altcoins.. others will just wither and die.. bitoin will just slow down..

i needed to replace my .3 of a bitcoin stash i lost to nicehash getting hacked.. i chose litecoin.. it was the right choice.. buying back my .3 bitcoin would have made me f-ck all.. its just going sideways at the moment..

for what its worth my little stash has gone up by 2K in US dollar terms  overnight..

trog


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 19, 2017)

trog100 said:


> 700 worth of litecoin owned  a month ago would now be worth 2800
> 
> there is a message here.. never sell your stash to get dollars .. if desperate for money borrow some but never sell your stash.. become a f-cking hodler..
> 
> ...


Borrowing is the worst thing any can do. That is some of the worst advice in the world.


----------



## trog100 (Dec 19, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Borrowing is the worst thing any can do. That is some of the worst advice in the world.



i would normally agree but maybe not in this particular situation which aint exactly  normal.. he he

plus of course the world currently lives on borrowed money.. i am lucky in the sense i dont have to.. but if push comes to shove i would sooner borrow than eat my seed corn.. currently my crytpo stash being my  seed corn 

i do plan (with a bit of luck) on being a crypto millonaire by this time next year.. he he.. 

trog


----------



## silkstone (Dec 19, 2017)

trog100 said:


> 700 worth of litecoin owned  a month ago would now be worth 2800
> 
> there is a message here.. never sell your stash to get dollars .. if desperate for money borrow some but never sell your stash.. become a f-cking hodler..
> 
> ...



I don't regret it that much. At the end of the day, you don't make any money until you sell. I've made the decision to sell 1/2 of what I mine to keep buying hardware and paying the electricity bills.


----------



## HD64G (Dec 19, 2017)

moproblems99 said:


> Greetings everyone,
> 
> I recently picked up an RX 580 (MSI Armor) to try out.  I know they can get to 29+ m/h and should be 24 to 25 out of the box.  I have found that I can only get about 19 - 20m/h overclocked.  I also crash instantly if I try to use the Block Chain driver from AMD.  Granted, this is currently just being tested on a Windows 7 SP1 rig without any other updates.
> 
> Should I bother with the flashing of the BIOS and other enhancements?  I am unsure at the moment what brand ram it is or anything else as I have been a little more busy then normal.  I believe GPuZ will tell me if I am not mistaken?


Blockchain driver works only for windows 10. Windows 7 isn't good for mining eth using AMD GPUs anymore.


----------



## phill (Dec 19, 2017)

HD64G said:


> Blockchain driver works only for windows 10. Windows 7 isn't good for mining eth using AMD GPUs anymore.



Isn't that just with the older AMD cards like the RX 4xx and 5xx cards?   I didn't think that Nvidia or the newer AMD cards suffered with the DAG file issues (where the hash rate drops...)??


----------



## verycharbroiled (Dec 19, 2017)

phill said:


> Isn't that just with the older AMD cards like the RX 4xx and 5xx cards?   I didn't think that Nvidia or the newer AMD cards suffered with the DAG file issues (where the hash rate drops...)??



yeah just the rx4xx and 5xx series have the dag problem. r9 3x0 and vega dont.

for rx4/5xx the 17.11.x win10 drivers (maybe others too, dunno)  fixes the dag issue. seems to have the blockchain driver fix built in. just set to "compute" in the amd settings thing.

nvidia has been fine all along.


----------



## Papahyooie (Dec 19, 2017)

I'm getting ready to buy another card to mine with. I'm looking at 1070 Tis. Should I go ahead and pull the trigger on that, or hold out a bit longer for a 1080 Ti? Thoughts? I know the 1080 Ti is massively more powerful, but obviously longer ROI. Plus I'd be missing out on that hashrate while waiting to buy. Anybody have experience with both?


----------



## silkstone (Dec 19, 2017)

Papahyooie said:


> I'm getting ready to buy another card to mine with. I'm looking at 1070 Tis. Should I go ahead and pull the trigger on that, or hold out a bit longer for a 1080 Ti? Thoughts? I know the 1080 Ti is massively more powerful, but obviously longer ROI. Plus I'd be missing out on that hashrate while waiting to buy. Anybody have experience with both?



1080Ti gets around 750 sol/s on ZEC, though closer to 700 at reasonable power and temps. I believe the 1070Ti will get around 500 sol/s, but can also mine ETH pretty well.


----------



## HD64G (Dec 19, 2017)

phill said:


> Isn't that just with the older AMD cards like the RX 4xx and 5xx cards?   I didn't think that Nvidia or the newer AMD cards suffered with the DAG file issues (where the hash rate drops...)??


Maybe Vega aren't affected much by the DAG size increasing bug but all the others are when mining ETH. And the only solution are windows 10 or linux and the latest drivers or the blockchain one. I have a friend with RX480 and Vega56.


----------



## phill (Dec 19, 2017)

HD64G said:


> Maybe Vega aren't affected much by the DAG size increasing bug but all the others are when mining ETH. And the only solution are windows 10 or linux and the latest drivers or the blockchain one. I have a friend with RX480 and Vega56.





verycharbroiled said:


> yeah just the rx4xx and 5xx series have the dag problem. r9 3x0 and vega dont.
> 
> for rx4/5xx the 17.11.x win10 drivers (maybe others too, dunno)  fixes the dag issue. seems to have the blockchain driver fix built in. just set to "compute" in the amd settings thing.
> 
> nvidia has been fine all along.



I've just been using 480's for a while now, I'm very sure I won't be mining anything much longer because you can 'earn' more flipping the coin than you can mining it to be honest, especially with the cost of electric in the UK it's not cheap to keep just a 6 card rig running all day and night..  
I did try the block chain drivers, it upped my hash rate a little but nothing to what it was before.  I think something else might have been a problem but if I'm honest, I'm just going to let it carry on till it next payout and then turn it off for good I think...  Mining with just 6 cards isn't really worth much at all...


----------



## trog100 (Dec 19, 2017)

phill said:


> I've just been using 480's for a while now, I'm very sure I won't be mining anything much longer because you can 'earn' more flipping the coin than you can mining it to be honest, especially with the cost of electric in the UK it's not cheap to keep just a 6 card rig running all day and night..
> I did try the block chain drivers, it upped my hash rate a little but nothing to what it was before.  I think something else might have been a problem but if I'm honest, I'm just going to let it carry on till it next payout and then turn it off for good I think...  Mining with just 6 cards isn't really worth much at all...



i am currently seeing 40 dollars per day now that eth has gone up nicely using the claymore eth miner on nanopool phil.. that is with my 10 x 1070 cards..

i just leave mine running including my desktop machine 24/7.. at 40 dollars per day plus the mined coin going up in price i dont really give a sh-t about the leccy bill.. i am making enough money just to leave it all running..

if you got half of that it would be worth having..

your are right about making more money flipping the coin but you already own the gear why not keep it runing..

but you could just break it down and flog the bits on ebay and buy some eth or ltc with the dosh you get.. i aint sure what it would fetch but you probably would make more money that way.. its just seems a shame to give up on the mining ..

when i started mining with nicehash three months back i was seeing as little as 15 dollars per day.. if it was worth doing back then its for sure worth doing now.. you must hold the coin though that is where the real money comes from..

trog

ps.. my eth claymore nanopool figures.. the calculator at bottom is about right..


----------



## notb (Dec 19, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i am currently seeing 40 dollars per day now that eth has gone up nicely using the claymore eth miner on nanopool phil.. that is with my 10 x 1070 cards..


So $4 per day per 1070. With or without electricity?
If this includes electricity, it's actually suspiciously good. 150 days ROI.
Based on this:
https://www.cryptocompare.com/minin...it=MH/s&PowerConsumption=1250&CostPerkWh=0.10
you should be making $30 per day net of electricity cost (200 days ROI), which is closer to what I'd expect (but still very good).
And that's with current ETH price, which was quite a bit lower just a moment ago.


> when i started mining with nicehash three months back i was seeing as little as 15 dollars per day.. if it was worth doing back then its for sure worth doing now.. you must hold the coin though that is where the real money comes from..


But didn't you start with 2 cards, not 10? 

It's not even worth looking at crypto prices or difficulty to know that profitability must have gone down drastically. It is apparent just based on GPU prices.


----------



## phill (Dec 19, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i am currently seeing 40 dollars per day now that eth has gone up nicely using the claymore eth miner on nanopool phil.. that is with my 10 x 1070 cards..
> 
> i just leave mine running including my desktop machine 24/7.. at 40 dollars per day plus the mined coin going up in price i dont really give a sh-t about the leccy bill.. i am making enough money just to leave it all running..
> 
> ...



Your not wrong Trog about the miner being worth being on, but for mining ETC or ETH, for me the profits aren't as much as they once were.  Mining ETC when we first started out we where mining 2 coins a day with our miners, now I'm lucky to be pushing 0.3 coins a day and when it's only worth $30 to $40 per coin, most of the profit gets sucked up in power costs.  Same goes for ETH, that was a coin evert 2 to 3 days, now it's nearly 2 months.  Because of the DAG file, the hash rate has dropped massively (Nearly 30Mh a card down to under 19MH a card - http://1stminingrig.com/amd-radeon-rx-400-rx-500-will-be-no-longer-profitable-for-ethereum-mining/ - Take a read of that one  ) so I am considering to just leave it off and let my mate flip the coins..  I've made the cash back on what I had put into it all, so I'm not really so bothered to be honest about it but I will see what my mate wishes to do and go from there..  I could just mine for 12 hours a day, turn off and back on again the following day..  I'm not so worried   If my mate helps with the power costs then I'll keep it on longer but at the moment, my electric bill needs a rest lol 

My mate has made very good money flipping the coins, more so than keeping the coins, so I think he's sticking with the flipping lol  I think he's taking a bit out so if anything bad happens we have got it in cash rather than in Bitcoin or whatever in case it crashes to pieces..  It's all the luck of the draw sadly..  One minute it's up, the next it's rocketed up and then the next it's fallen to the ground lol   Cryptocurrency, learn to love to hate it


----------



## moproblems99 (Dec 20, 2017)

HD64G said:


> Maybe Vega aren't affected much by the DAG size increasing bug but all the others are when mining ETH. And the only solution are windows 10 or linux and the latest drivers or the blockchain one. I have a friend with RX480 and Vega56.



So I have now tried two RX 580s a Power Color Red Dragon 4GB (17.5 MH) and an MSI Armor OC 4GB (19MH).  I have tried with Win 7 and Ubuntu 16.04.  I am not sure if it is the Sandy Bridge XEON system that is causing it or what.

EDIT:

Perhaps it is related to the DAG article from above.


----------



## Papahyooie (Dec 20, 2017)

Apparently I have the worlds most powerful GTX 980 Ti. I'm making 0.14 BTC per day on it, so have fun fighting over the scraps plebs. Next time I talk to you, it will be from my private island. Later losers!


----------



## trog100 (Dec 20, 2017)

notb said:


> So $4 per day per 1070. With or without electricity?
> If this includes electricity, it's actually suspiciously good. 150 days ROI.
> Based on this:
> https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/eth?HashingPower=300&HashingUnit=MH/s&PowerConsumption=1250&CostPerkWh=0.10
> ...



the  figures i posted are correct as of today..

back at the end of august i started mining with one 8 x 1070 rig and one 2 x 1070 desktop machine.. it didnt look good.. a year just to pay for itself..

but after just over three months when nicehash went down and i lost the lot i had built up a .3 bitcoin $3500 stash which would  now be worth close to $6000 at todays value..

now if i take that 3500 and divide it by 90 it gives be my gain per day.. it comes out at 38 dollars mining per day.. most of this was from not cashing out and simply holding what i mined..

that current 6K value of .3 btc if it had not been nicked mined over 90 day works out at 66 dollars per day all from mining and holding..

mining is currently profitable but not as profitable as buying coin and holding..

what i am saying is that daily return figures that seemed sh-t at the beginning turned out quite good..

people who for whatever reason pull out what they have mined  for cash  as its mined are doing themselves a big disservice..

my stash  got nicked but only because i was both lazy and unlucky..

at the moment i am seeing just under 40 dollars per day mining eth.. i will mine and hold.. in three months time i expect to see over 6K in my mining stash .. that is a conservative figure it could be more..

my leccy bill might be £400 quid or so but who gives a f-ck i will be well in profit..

having said that if  just bought litecoin or eth up front i would make a lot more.. i am mining simply because i already own the hardware.. no way on this planet would i buy more hardware.. but i will buy more eth and  ltc..

trog


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 20, 2017)

I usually sell 1/3 of my coins I mine to pay the power bills.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Dec 20, 2017)

So who bought bitcoin Cash££ ? And hows it jumped to £6430 in a minute ,i am actually starting to consider a brain transplant with a bullet, i jest


----------



## trog100 (Dec 20, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> I usually sell 1/3 of my coins I mine to pay the power bills.



that is costing you a fortune when coin is going up as it is now.. but i think you are mining  with a lot of hardware and have no other option maybe..

my method is is to hold everything and build up cryto as quickly as i can.. my power bill gets paid in fiat but i am sure its modest compared to yours..

i am also currently  buying litecoin with any spare cash i have.. which is making be far more money than mining..

i now have 30 litecoin which has put a happy smile on my face over the last couple of weeks.. its gone up by %400 over the last month..

3K in is now worth 10K.. now way am i gonna spend it.. cos i want to see it at 20K in a months time.. he he

i have also put 1K into eth which is now worth 3K.. i am also mining eth at the rate of 1.3 eth per month.. none of that will get spent ether.. 

trog



theoneandonlymrk said:


> So who bought bitcoin Cash££ ? And hows it jumped to £6430 in a minute ,i am actually starting to consider a brain transplant with a bullet, i jest


 
i recon its at $3500 now.. the shine seems to have gone off BTC.. i though big daddy had won the little fight but maybe not.. bitcoin golds seem to be going up as well.. 

it seem to be a follow the money thing.. coinbase have added bitcoin cash to their stuff as well..

trog


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 20, 2017)

trog100 said:


> that is costing you a fortune when coin is going up as it is now.. but i think you are mining  with a lot of hardware and have no other option maybe..
> 
> my method is is to hold everything and build up cryto as quickly as i can.. my power bill gets paid in fiat but i am sure its modest compared to yours..
> 
> ...


I dont care about making tons of money with cytro currency, I already made my money back from the equipment awhile ago. My house is paid off, car paid, I have no debt, my only credit card is in a block of ice in the freezer. I make more money building mining rigs than I make with mining. I can sell everything I have now including business inventory and retire in Mexico and live for the rest of my life nowhere near Unites States.
But I mostly to sell to pay the 500-700 monthly power bill and secure some profit I made from mining, cytro currency is so volatile.


----------



## notb (Dec 20, 2017)

trog100 said:


> the  figures i posted are correct as of today..
> back at the end of august i started mining with one 8 x 1070 rig and one 2 x 1070 desktop machine.. it didnt look good.. a year just to pay for itself..


As it should. I mean: 1 year ROI on investment is still excellent overall.


> now if i take that 3500 and divide it by 90 it gives be my gain per day.. it comes out at 38 dollars mining per day.. most of this was from not cashing out and simply holding what i mined..


OK. 
So this is how you guys come up with these unrealistic numbers. 


> mining is currently profitable but not as profitable as buying coin and holding..


Production is almost never as profitable as trading. Doesn't matter what the object is. 


> what i am saying is that daily return figures that seemed sh-t at the beginning turned out quite good..


Meh... they really were sh-t and still are. And, most likely, will always be. But since you're holding, you're paid a premium for market risk, not for mining.


> people who for whatever reason pull out what they have mined  for cash  as its mined are doing themselves a big disservice..


But they end up with money put in stable currency, not in BTC. That's the point.


> but i will buy more eth and  ltc..


And you're not alone.


----------



## trog100 (Dec 20, 2017)

i dont consider fiat a stable currency at the moment.. far from it.. more so if its sat in a bank but i take your point..

and okay without allowing for whatever your mining doing the crypto thing and going up in value.. mining figures are sh-t.. he he

mining is just  a way of obtaining crypto.. what you do with it afterwards is up to you.. me.. i hold it.. some (most in this thread) cash it out and spend it..

i am bit like yoytano.. retired and dont need the extra money to spend and its a game to me.. to win i need to become a crypto millionaire by this time next year.. 

i owe nothing.. hold a little gold.. a little silver and now a little crypto.. the crypto is currently keeping me amused.. kind of like a new hobby.. 

you are still sounding like a shill for officialdom to me.. he he..

trog


----------



## notb (Dec 20, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i dont consider fiat a stable currency at the moment.. far from it.. more so if its sat in a bank but i take your point..


I don't see the difference between cash and bank deposit when it comes to stability, but whatever. Maybe you meant a possible bank bankruptcy.

What I mean is: even if you're totally against gov and fiat money, you're still earning and spending in whatever dominates in your area (I presume: USD). So even if state currency prices are a bit volatile, it's still way more stable than what happens with cryptos.

It's the same basic reason why you should (generally) earn in the currency you spend. And take loans in the currency you earn.

I think we've already got a lesson in crypto wallet vs bank account security. However, at this point cryptos are all going up,so they seem attractive. So lets just wait for a major collapse and we'll see what will be the general opinion on cryptos afterwards. 


> you are still sounding like a shill for officialdom to me.. he he..


I already told you I love dealing with official stuff - financial market regulation in particular. It's mostly my job, but also a hobby (sort of).


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 20, 2017)

trog100 said:


> i dont consider fiat a stable currency at the moment.. far from it.. more so if its sat in a bank but i take your point..
> 
> and okay without allowing for whatever your mining doing the crypto thing and going up in value.. mining figures are sh-t.. he he
> 
> ...


I'm not old but I am not in my 20s, I'm 37. What I mean is, I can sell everything I have now and live in a much cheaper part of the world that would last me for the rest of my life with some dividend investments. I know how to live on the cheap.


----------



## trog100 (Dec 20, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> I'm not old but I am not in my 20s, I'm 37. What I mean is, I can sell everything I have now and live in a much cheaper part of the world that would last me for the rest of my life with some dividend investments. I know how to live on the cheap.



ready to do runner if required.. a nice position to be in.. best of luck..

trog



notb said:


> I don't see the difference between cash and bank deposit when it comes to stability, but whatever. Maybe you meant a possible bank bankruptcy.
> 
> What I mean is: even if you're totally against gov and fiat money, you're still earning and spending in whatever dominates in your area (I presume: USD). So even if state currency prices are a bit volatile, it's still way more stable than what happens with cryptos.
> 
> ...



i am in the UK but more interested what happens in the US.. i am one those people that think the entire worlds financial system is being kept alive by central bank money printing and is long overdue for what could be euphemistically called a system reset..

which basically means i dont think anything is secure.. if a bank is in trouble they can now legally take as much of the depositors cash as they need to keep afloat.. i think the term is "bail in" which is of course why crypto is so popular.. people no longer trust the banks..

trog


----------



## verycharbroiled (Dec 20, 2017)

moproblems99 said:


> So I have now tried two RX 580s a Power Color Red Dragon 4GB (17.5 MH) and an MSI Armor OC 4GB (19MH).  I have tried with Win 7 and Ubuntu 16.04.  I am not sure if it is the Sandy Bridge XEON system that is causing it or what.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Perhaps it is related to the DAG article from above.



i have 2 rx470s 4gb, a powercolor and msi, they each get 28/29 mhs on eth with claymore 10.2, win10, 17.11.1 drivers set to compute, 2100 OC on memory, core stock, strapped bios. so youre 580s should do at least that. 

btw 28-30 mhs was what i also got before the amd dag problem, so the current drivers basically solved that. the cards do get gradually slower on bigger dag files but not like the big slowdown that amd suddenly had on polaris a while ago. that particular problem is gone.


----------



## phill (Dec 20, 2017)

verycharbroiled said:


> i have 2 rx470s 4gb, a powercolor and msi, they each get 28/29 mhs on eth with claymore 10.2, win10, 17.11.1 drivers set to compute, 2100 OC on memory, core stock, strapped bios. so youre 580s should do at least that.
> 
> btw 28-30 mhs was what i also got before the amd dag problem, so the current drivers basically solved that. the cards do get gradually slower on bigger dag files but not like the big slowdown that amd suddenly had on polaris a while ago. that particular problem is gone.



Running my RX 480 Strix cards, I seem to be slowing down a lot..  19MH at best per card..


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 20, 2017)

phill said:


> Running my RX 480 Strix cards, I seem to be slowing down a lot..  19MH at best per card..


you really need to update the drivers or find the correct drivers. your problem is driver related


----------



## phill (Dec 20, 2017)

I've tried the latest block chain drivers but it takes away the power controls away in MSI and the hashrate really doesn't go up that much more...  Might be down to the flash on the cards, but I think I'll put them back to stock 480's and just put them in all of my PC's that need a GPU lol


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 21, 2017)

phill said:


> I've tried the latest block chain drivers but it takes away the power controls away in MSI and the hashrate really doesn't go up that much more...  Might be down to the flash on the cards, but I think I'll put them back to stock 480's and just put them in all of my PC's that need a GPU lol


What is your current speeds with the 480. Is it a 8gb model?


----------



## moproblems99 (Dec 21, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> What is your current speeds with the 480. Is it a 8gb model?



Is that a reason for the slowdown?


----------



## yotano211 (Dec 21, 2017)

moproblems99 said:


> Is that a reason for the slowdown?


No just wondering since the 8gb models run at 2000mhz on the memory, the 4gb runs at 1750mhz. A few of my 470s only overclock to 1800 at best, some others can do 1850-1900. A few can go over 2000mhz.


----------



## Papahyooie (Dec 21, 2017)

Good news, boys. Nicehash says it will return your Bitcoin, just have to wait until the financing stuff is done, and they will announce the date they will return your funds at the end of January. 

Trog should be pretty ecstatic about that lol.


----------



## notb (Dec 21, 2017)

Papahyooie said:


> Good news, boys. Nicehash says it will return your Bitcoin, just have to wait until the financing stuff is done, and they will announce the date they will return your funds at the end of January.


You should really post a source when saying something like that...


> Trog should be pretty ecstatic about that lol.


If this was a stock or currency exchange (the direction it's going to), the financial supervisor would be ecstatic as well...


----------



## trog100 (Dec 21, 2017)

Papahyooie said:


> Good news, boys. Nicehash says it will return your Bitcoin, just have to wait until the financing stuff is done, and they will announce the date they will return your funds at the end of January.
> 
> Trog should be pretty ecstatic about that lol.



yep but more so when i get it.. 

i will be interested in what its paying out now as well.. and what it decides to mine.. i am currently getting some nice returns from mining eth on nanopool.. 

trog


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## yotano211 (Dec 21, 2017)

Papahyooie said:


> Good news, boys. Nicehash says it will return your Bitcoin, just have to wait until the financing stuff is done, and they will announce the date they will return your funds at the end of January.
> 
> Trog should be pretty ecstatic about that lol.


Who the hell would fiance them for this.


----------



## notb (Dec 21, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> Who the hell would fiance them for this.


I know who wouldn't.
We totally missed this:
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42409815


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## yotano211 (Dec 21, 2017)

notb said:


> I know who wouldn't.
> We totally missed this:
> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42409815


I saw that new a few days ago. 
I think the 2017 word of the year is "hacking".


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## notb (Dec 21, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> I saw that new a few days ago.
> I think the 2017 word of the year is "hacking".


I think it's more like "hey, people started to hold millions on amateur servers. Awesome!"

I mean: the last proper breach of banking IT system (at least one we know about) was Levin's Citibank hack in 1994 - you know... the beginning of public Internet. Both Levin and Mitnick were prosecuted in 1995. This was huge when I was a kid (I started coding in 1997). A whole generation of coders/hackers/tinkerers was brought up on stories of guys like them.
But large corporations quickly improved security and really not much happened since. Hacking evolved from going into the systems to bulk stealing user passwords.

Until cryptos came along we didn't have such poorly secured systems holding so much value. So in a way... it's not like we suddenly have more or better hackers. It's just that they were given an opportunity to monetize their passion... (much like miners ).


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## trog100 (Dec 21, 2017)

UK banks are very secretive about security.. for example if an employee  (or executive) is caught with their fingers in the till they will will never be prosecuted just quietly dismissed.. 

hackers are getting better but who better to make your house secure than an ex burglar.. emphasis on the word "ex".. he he he..


trog


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## phill (Dec 21, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> What is your current speeds with the 480. Is it a 8gb model?



Currently my Strix cards run 1130/2130, they are flashed to 580's and have been tweaked to run at 1750 memory strap..  I am using the 8Gb models


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## LightningJR (Dec 21, 2017)

notb said:


> You should really post a source when saying something like that...




I looked it up, apparently people are getting an email from Nicehash saying their stolen bitcoin is going to be returned. It's on Reddit. It's taking time to get all the emails out to people. It's confirmed by Andrej_ID which is the main guy on Nicehash's Reddit page.


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/NiceHash/comments/7l3ry7


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/NiceHash/comments/7l5t8l


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## Papahyooie (Dec 21, 2017)

notb said:


> You should really post a source when saying something like that...



Literally the front page of the Nicehash website... 

EDIT: Excuse me... it *was* linked on the front page of the website last night when I posted that. Here's the link. 

https://www.nicehash.com/attack-learn-more


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## notb (Dec 21, 2017)

Papahyooie said:


> Literally the front page of the Nicehash website...
> 
> EDIT: Excuse me... it *was* linked on the front page of the website last night when I posted that. Here's the link.
> 
> https://www.nicehash.com/attack-learn-more



"We have now been able to reserve the funds required to restore balances from a group of international investors in our business."
So basically they've found investors willing to provide possibly most of those 60-90 mln USD (depending on the date they'll use for evaluation). That was the only option, to be honest. They most likely need a month to confirm the takeover (or maybe: becoming a joint-stock company).
So it seems NiceHash brand is worth quite a lot. Interesting.

I have to say: for such a fundamental information, it's pretty well hidden. I would expect a huge red banner on the top.



LightningJR said:


> I looked it up, apparently people are getting an email from Nicehash saying their stolen bitcoin is going to be returned. It's on Reddit. It's taking time to get all the emails out to people. It's confirmed by Andrej_ID which is the main guy on Nicehash's Reddit page.


It's Andrej Skraba - their new marketing director (he moved from EKWB in December... clearly, they needed a good PR guy).


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## Papahyooie (Dec 21, 2017)

notb said:


> "We have now been able to reserve the funds required to restore balances from a group of international investors in our business."
> So basically they've found investors willing to provide possibly most of those 60-90 mln USD (depending on the date they'll use for evaluation). That was the only option, to be honest. They most likely need a month to confirm the takeover (or maybe: becoming a joint-stock company).
> So it seems NiceHash brand is worth quite a lot. Interesting.
> I have to say: for such a fundamental information, it's pretty well hidden. I would expect a huge red banner on the top.



Seems that way, yea. I guess somebody was willing to gamble on fronting the money... I wonder if it was one of those Crypto rich guys lol. Seems to me they might be the only ones willing to make that call (then again, I'm no financial guru by any means.) 

I suggested to them on Reddit to get their security sorted out, get the service back up ASAP, then credit the miners who lost money with an bitcoin equivalent of hashing power orders. Then let the miners start mining, and make the money back, with a bit of a buffer time in order to get the Bitcoin in Nicehash's wallet flowing again. Then they'd actually be out no money for the reimbursement, as the reimbursement would come from future profit. Miners who lost money are happy because they get their crypto back (even if it takes a bit, it would still be better than not getting it at all) Miners are even more happy because they're getting paid to mine again. Nicehash is making money again on fees from the miners... everyone is happy. Nicehash would have to take a hit on their profits for awhile because they'd be paying out free hashing power, but at least they wouldn't be taken over and/or 70 million in debt. Guess they didn't care for that solution. Or didn't read it, which is probably just as likely lol. 

Like I said, the info was linked right there on the front page. Not sure why it's not anymore. I agree, they should definitely put it out there more. But they've linked it on Reddit and their social media. If you're someone who has skin in this game and you weren't watching those channels anyway, you're doing it wrong.


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## moproblems99 (Dec 21, 2017)

phill said:


> Currently my Strix cards run 1130/2130, they are flashed to 580's and have been tweaked to run at 1750 memory strap..  I am using the 8Gb models



Are you using Win 7?  I just installed Win10 and had an immediate increase in performance.  I went from 19MH/s to 23MH/s on stock VBIOS.  I am however unsure of why I could not make Ubuntu perform as expected.


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## yotano211 (Dec 21, 2017)

Papahyooie said:


> Seems that way, yea. I guess somebody was willing to gamble on fronting the money... I wonder if it was one of those Crypto rich guys lol. Seems to me they might be the only ones willing to make that call (then again, I'm no financial guru by any means.)
> 
> I suggested to them on Reddit to get their security sorted out, get the service back up ASAP, then credit the miners who lost money with an bitcoin equivalent of hashing power orders. Then let the miners start mining, and make the money back, with a bit of a buffer time in order to get the Bitcoin in Nicehash's wallet flowing again. Then they'd actually be out no money for the reimbursement, as the reimbursement would come from future profit. Miners who lost money are happy because they get their crypto back (even if it takes a bit, it would still be better than not getting it at all) Miners are even more happy because they're getting paid to mine again. Nicehash is making money again on fees from the miners... everyone is happy. Nicehash would have to take a hit on their profits for awhile because they'd be paying out free hashing power, but at least they wouldn't be taken over and/or 70 million in debt. Guess they didn't care for that solution. Or didn't read it, which is probably just as likely lol.
> 
> Like I said, the info was linked right there on the front page. Not sure why it's not anymore. I agree, they should definitely put it out there more. But they've linked it on Reddit and their social media. If you're someone who has skin in this game and you weren't watching those channels anyway, you're doing it wrong.


I am still wondering who would lend out that much money on something so speculative. Does nicehash really bring in that much money or are there  really that many dumb people in the world. 
The investors would have needed a nice ROI if they put up their own money. I would love to know the details, I dont think it will ever be released.


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## cdawall (Dec 21, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> I am still wondering who would lend out that much money on something so speculative. Does nicehash really bring in that much money or are there  really that many dumb people in the world.
> The investors would have needed a nice ROI if they put up their own money. I would love to know the details, I dont think it will ever be released.



67 million dollars was stolen. That means there was quite a bit of money moving around...


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## yotano211 (Dec 21, 2017)

cdawall said:


> 67 million dollars was stolen. That means there was quite a bit of money moving around...


I would need to check the wallet address that the stolen bitcoin went too. I haevnt checked it since the day after the theft.


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## verycharbroiled (Dec 22, 2017)

cdawall said:


> 67 million dollars was stolen. That means there was quite a bit of money moving around...





yotano211 said:


> I would need to check the wallet address that the stolen bitcoin went too. I haevnt checked it since the day after the theft.



im more curious as to the addresses where payout money may come from. might give insight as to who is backing this come back.


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## phill (Dec 22, 2017)

moproblems99 said:


> Are you using Win 7?  I just installed Win10 and had an immediate increase in performance.  I went from 19MH/s to 23MH/s on stock VBIOS.  I am however unsure of why I could not make Ubuntu perform as expected.



I run Windows 10, always have done with these cards..


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## P4-630 (Dec 22, 2017)

I just visited some pages at toms, it seems that the CPU start's mining or something because of high CPU usage even when the page is done loading.....
I don't visit toms much though but I wouldn't want to see this on TPU.


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## yotano211 (Dec 22, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> I just visited some pages at toms, it seems that the CPU start's mining or something because of high CPU usage even when the page is done loading.....
> I don't visit toms much though but I wouldn't want to see this on TPU.


You are talking about http://www.tomshardware.com/

I just went there and checked task manager, I got nothing on a mining script. Processor starts at 5% when it loads then drops down to 1-2%. Completely normal from the processor.


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## moproblems99 (Dec 22, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> You are talking about http://www.tomshardware.com/
> 
> I just went there and checked task manager, I got nothing on a mining script. Processor starts at 5% when it loads then drops down to 1-2%. Completely normal from the processor.



A better check would be the network or application tabs in google chrome.  I can't stand Tom's forums or site anymore or I would check it myself.

EDIT: So I got curious and went to visit.  I ran the performance profiler and checked loaded scripts.  I din't see anything particularly obvious but it was just a quick smash and grab.


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## yotano211 (Dec 22, 2017)

moproblems99 said:


> A better check would be the network or application tabs in google chrome.  I can't stand Tom's forums or site anymore or I would check it myself.
> 
> EDIT: So I got curious and went to visit.  I ran the performance profiler and checked loaded scripts.  I din't see anything particularly obvious but it was just a quick smash and grab.


I use firefox


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## R-T-B (Dec 23, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> I just visited some pages at toms, it seems that the CPU start's mining or something because of high CPU usage even when the page is done loading.....
> I don't visit toms much though but I wouldn't want to see this on TPU.



That be ads, not crypto.  They can be just as bad at times.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 3, 2018)

So i just got three saphire nitro+ 580s they do 28.3mh/s eth with stock bios and a mild 2100 memory oc just thought I'd share.


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## moproblems99 (Jan 3, 2018)

Interesting, I have 4 running right now that I can't get over 22mh without increasing the power limit to +15%.  Can you by chance tell me your asic quality?  I have also become suspect that Newegg is the only company that I can actually purchase from here.

EDIT: So in my infinite wisdom, I had always been testing mine in dual mining mode.  Swapping off to eth only netted me 28 - 31.5 on all my cards.  I do have to use +10 to +15 on my power limit though.

EDIT 2:  On a side note, installing my 4th 580 causes afterburner to fail to work. So right now all my profiling is done through wattman.


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## trog100 (Jan 4, 2018)

afterburner didnt work for me ether.. it kept saying too many cards.. 

trog


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 4, 2018)

moproblems99 said:


> Interesting, I have 4 running right now that I can't get over 22mh without increasing the power limit to +15%.  Can you by chance tell me your asic quality?  I have also become suspect that Newegg is the only company that I can actually purchase from here.
> 
> EDIT: So in my infinite wisdom, I had always been testing mine in dual mining mode.  Swapping off to eth only netted me 28 - 31.5 on all my cards.  I do have to use +10 to +15 on my power limit though.
> 
> EDIT 2:  On a side note, installing my 4th 580 causes afterburner to fail to work. So right now all my profiling is done through wattman.


Wattman is pretty good now you can save and re use an oc profile, i checked one asic for you 73% but that's only going to affect efficiency on Eth as its memory based, I've five 580s in a mining rig and im waiting on a 12gpu mobo but AB works on my 5 try reinstall AB.
Set core clocks low like 1000-1100 at 950mv-1v and as high a memory oc as makes a difference, that should drop power use oh and that memory voltage thing im sure its not memory voltage ,lower it to 950mv-1000mv
Out of 3 new unmolested saphire nitro+ 580 8Gb two do 28.3 well ones at 26 same settings , ill try some bios butchering see if i can get it up.


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## moproblems99 (Jan 4, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Wattman is pretty good now you can save and re use an oc profile, i checked one asic for you 73% but that's only going to affect efficiency on Eth as its memory based, I've five 580s in a mining rig and im waiting on a 12gpu mobo but AB works on my 5 try reinstall AB.
> Set core clocks low like 1000-1100 at 950mv-1v and as high a memory oc as makes a difference, that should drop power use oh and that memory voltage thing im sure its not memory voltage ,lower it to 950mv-1000mv
> Out of 3 new unmolested saphire nitro+ 580 8Gb two do 28.3 well ones at 26 same settings , ill try some bios butchering see if i can get it up.



I have tried to reinstall Afterburner and even the drivers.  TriXX seems to work but I hate the interface.

Thanks for looking at the asic.  I have been trying to figure out if Newegg was the only one with 'poor' asic quality cards but it appears not.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 4, 2018)

moproblems99 said:


> I have tried to reinstall Afterburner and even the drivers.  TriXX seems to work but I hate the interface.
> 
> Thanks for looking at the asic.  I have been trying to figure out if Newegg was the only one with 'poor' asic quality cards but it appears not.


Poor quality, 73% is not bad and typical in fact , its all about memory quality and timings , essentially bandwidth, this Eth mining, purely memory quality and timings is all that differs between two of the same type of gpu hitting good mining speeds ,the gpu is under utilised on Eth hence why some dual mine which then would make the gpu grade matter again but not much.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 7, 2018)

Just thought I'd pass on an update on the saphire nitro+ rx580s, I've found they don't need a bios mod ,just set 2250 memory oc and they hit 29.5mh/s , they're the first I've heard of that can do that without a bios mod.
And after some further tweaking my vegas doing 45.5mh/s


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## yotano211 (Jan 7, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Just thought I'd pass on an update on the saphire nitro+ rx580s, I've found they don't need a bios mod ,just set 2250 memory oc and they hit 29.5mh/s , they're the first I've heard of that can do that without a bios mod.
> And after some further tweaking my vegas doing 45.5mh/s


The  problem is now getting any of them.


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## silkstone (Jan 7, 2018)

yotano211 said:


> The  problem is now getting any of them.



Yes, even NVidia high-end cards are becoming unavailable. I was looking at getting a gigabyte 1080 Ti waterforce, but they are all out of stock along with many others. The best prices available here for a 1080 Ti are $1000+


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## Nordic (Feb 5, 2018)

Nordic said:


> I used to mine bitcoins and litecoins in 2009-2011. I sold off quite a few at $30 and at $300, which was some extreme profits on my end for the time. I used this money to move and do not regret the value it could have had today.
> 
> I do believe bitcoin is in a bubble. I base this belief on media attention and public knowledge of crypto coins. Most people I talk to outside of techie circles know of bitcoin but don't know much about it. When everyday people are asking how they can get into it, I take that to mean that there is too much enthusiasm. Before 2008 many people were buying houses bigger than they could afford. Before the 1930's many people were putting everything they had into the booming stock market. When it seems like too much of a sure thing to what are essentially layman, then I am going to expect a bubble.
> 
> ...





trog100 said:


> ps.. is it a bubble.. maybe but its got plenty of time to grow before bursting..


Has your opinion changed at all trog?


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## R-T-B (Feb 5, 2018)

Nordic said:


> Has your opinion changed at all trog?



Talk at years end, not before.


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## trog100 (Feb 6, 2018)

Nordic said:


> Has your opinion changed at all trog?



lets say i am  little less sure than i was.. he he

the next couple of months should tell us more..

trog


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## silkstone (Feb 19, 2018)

Anyone else get errors with the ZEC miner? Error code 46?

Apparently, it is due to a voltage drop, but I'm not sure on which card it's happening on and troubleshooting is going to be a PITA as it only occurs after 2-3 hours or so.
I checked the risers for physical damage, but couldn't see anything. I removed one PCIe extension lead and put 2 of the cards a little closer and switched one riser with a fresh one that I will cycle through if the crashes keep happening. I also have a molex to PCIe cable that I need to eliminate at some point.

Luckily, I came across a script that will autostart the miner if it fails. I have a couple of smart plugs that I might add to the setup so I can have a failsafe, if I leave the miner running while I am away. I'm thinking that I might get some smart plugs that are IFTT compatible or just sit down and figure out whether I can use Tasker with my Xiaomi plugs


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## moproblems99 (Feb 19, 2018)

I started having trouble with NV cards running claymore.


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## cdawall (Feb 19, 2018)

moproblems99 said:


> I started having trouble with NV cards running claymore.



Which cards? 1060 3GB cards are kicked off of mining eth classic since the DAG broke 180.


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## moproblems99 (Feb 19, 2018)

One of each actually.


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## cdawall (Feb 19, 2018)

Yea the 3GB cards will cause issues if you are mining through nicehash, since people will pay for ethereum classic which is too big of a DAG. Move them over to equihash or neoscrypt and they will be fine.


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## moproblems99 (Feb 19, 2018)

Just mining straight-up eth at the moment, and last night the dag was at 170 I think.  I pulled them out of the rig to do some solo testing so we will see what happens.


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## cdawall (Feb 19, 2018)

moproblems99 said:


> Just mining straight-up eth at the moment, and last night the dag was at 170 I think.  I pulled them out of the rig to do some solo testing so we will see what happens.



That's curious I have a batch mining that DAG right now. (11 of them to be exact )


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## moproblems99 (Feb 19, 2018)

yeah I'm not sure either.  My strix 580 isn't doing great either.  Can't get it past 25mh

EDIT: So, we'll see what happens.  I have the 1060 6GB running by itself.  It usually tanks in about 2 - 4 hours.


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## moproblems99 (Feb 20, 2018)

Sorry for the double post, but I can't seem to edit my last one.

So my 1060 6GB has been going strong for 48 hours by itself. I am going to add in the 3GB to see if they run together fine. As I suspect they will, I am curious as to why I cannot get the rig to be stable with both NV and AMD together.


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## cdawall (Mar 8, 2018)

Well guess you can say things are getting serious ran another 100A to my garage for cards...


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## hat (Jun 7, 2018)

Anyone else seeing odd spikes like this? This is with Nicehash running the Lyra2REv2 algorithm.

Just cleaned up my rig. It was petty nasty... probably the worst I've ever seen my own computer get. I attribute this to the fan I had blowing at the side... it's free from dust aside from that perma-dust coting that happens and whatever little clumps of dust that might exist in the little nooks and crannies I didn't bother with. However, when I hooked it back up I noticed Nicehash is running Cryptonight on the GPUs right now, which we all know isn't really that hard on cards... they're both hitting almost 2GHz core and not even hitting the power target.

I did replace the dead box fan too, though. It doesn't seem to do much for temps directly that can be read by the sensors, but I'm hoping that massive influx of air is at least good for cooling some vregs or something a little more than without it...


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## hat (Jul 9, 2018)

Looks like my 24 pin ATX connector burned up again. It wasn't melted or anything, but the connectors on the end of the same 2 +12v wires were, erm, loose... not making good contact, and the wires were really stiff/brittle. I actually snapped one in half...

It would be really nice if this board had an extra power connector for this, even a floppy power connector...


----------



## Super XP (Jul 9, 2018)

People still invested in Crypto? 

My favourites - Syscoin (Decentralized eBay), 
XRP (Ripple) xRapid,  xCurrent,  xVia etc., Bank / financial and Commerce Crypto,  
TRON TRX Decentralization of the Internet , 
EOS Decentralized Smart Contracts Platform ( Unlimited Scalability) created by the Legendary Programmer and Genius Dan Larimer, also inventor of DPoS.  
IOTA Decentralized IoT.
Verge XVG , initial PornHub partnership (Speculative Hodl)
Etc


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## CheapMeat (Jul 10, 2018)

Currently using WinMiner with a E5-1680V2 and GTX 1050 Ti when I'm away from my computer.  It tends to settle on XMR & ETC.


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## hat (Jul 10, 2018)

Still mining with Nicehash here...


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## Papahyooie (Jul 10, 2018)

hat said:


> Still mining with Nicehash here...



What kind of % return are you getting? Mine's too low to bother with right now, to me. Once I get my rigs moved to an outbuilding where heat won't be an issue, then I'll reconsider.


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## trog100 (Jul 10, 2018)

i am not getting much over the cost of leccy but being an out and out hodler what i am getting now dosnt matter that much its what the price does in the future thats important to me.. 

i now view mining as buying eth on the cheap.. i still think/hope its all gonna go up.. he he..

trog


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## hat (Jul 10, 2018)

Papahyooie said:


> What kind of % return are you getting? Mine's too low to bother with right now, to me. Once I get my rigs moved to an outbuilding where heat won't be an issue, then I'll reconsider.



As I understand it, the work I do today will be worth more later when/if BTC increases. All the days I mined at $2/day retroactively become $4/day if BTC were to hit somewhere around 13,000, because I still have the BTC I got paid, it's just worth more now. For mining to be worth more while the BTC price is the same, you are waiting for a sharp decrease in difficulty and/or a sharp increase in reward on a particular coin...

Much like Trog I just keep on truckin' and hope for a a future where my basket of eggs is worth more.


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## Papahyooie (Jul 10, 2018)

I see. Well, I'm much less of a gambler. I take my winnings and cash out often.


----------



## hat (Jul 11, 2018)

It's not so much of a gamble. It's just my little stash that I keep adding to (albeit slowly). Sure the price of BTC is volatile, but I can be patient when it comes to that.


----------



## Papahyooie (Jul 11, 2018)

Mining at what (in my situation at the moment) amounts to a loss in hopes that the price will rise is the definition of a gamble lol.


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## trog100 (Jul 11, 2018)

Papahyooie said:


> Mining at what (in my situation at the moment) amounts to a loss in hopes that the price will rise is the definition of a gamble lol.



it all comes down to whether you think the price its gonna go up or down.. to me it has to go up for the cash out style of mining to ever become profitable again if it dosnt your mining days are over and mine and hats are somewhat pointless.. he he.. 

some say that in the end the cost of mining will have to reflect in the price.. which does kind of imply the price has to go up but only time will tell.. 

trog


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## verycharbroiled (Jul 13, 2018)

hat said:


> As I understand it, the work I do today will be worth more later when/if BTC increases. All the days I mined at $2/day retroactively become $4/day if BTC were to hit somewhere around 13,000, because I still have the BTC I got paid, it's just worth more now. For mining to be worth more while the BTC price is the same, you are waiting for a sharp decrease in difficulty and/or a sharp increase in reward on a particular coin...
> 
> Much like Trog I just keep on truckin' and hope for a a future where my basket of eggs is worth more.



Back in 2011-2012 I mined btc on gpus when it was worth $2 USD. I barely made electric, might of made like a dollar a day. And that's where most of my stack today came from.

Bottom line, if you make more than your electric, keep mining.

Now if you're mining at a loss, just buy coins.


----------

