# Router For Home Network



## Durvelle27 (Apr 4, 2018)

Yet another thread on needing a router guys  

Welp moral of the story is my current router decided to kick the bucket and no longer turns on so I’m in need of a new one for the family needs. I have a list of routers I have looked at but I’m not very good with networking so wondering out of the options I listed is the best choice. Please no other recommendations 

Options:

TP-Link AC1750
TP-Link AC1350
Linkys AC1200+
Netgear AC1200


----------



## TheLostSwede (Apr 4, 2018)

TP-Link usually make ok stuff, as long as you're not expecting regular firmware updates.
One thing to keep in mind with cheaper routers is that they can come with a lot of different "stuff" inside.

The TP-Link AC1750 is a great example, as TP-Link has so far made no less than five revisions.
So if we take a look at the TP-Link website, V1 and V3 has had exactly one firmware update, whereas V2 and V4 both have had three. I can't find V5...

Why is this a concern? Well, as a simple example, take the krack vulnerability of the Wi-Fi encryption system, if the hardware manufacturer doesn't offer a firmware update, you're stuck with hardware that have security issues.
In the case of the TP-Link AC1750, V2 and V4 have both gotten updates that fixes krack, but V1 and V3 has not.

The Linkys AC1200+ is actually even more fun, it comes in at least three different versions, all with entirely different hardware. You can be unlucky and get a single core processor, you can get a faster dual core processor, or you can get a slower quad core processor from a different processor company.
Does this matter? Well, yes, to a degree, as it can affect the performance of the router if you have a lot of devices connected to it.

How do you know which one you get when you order online? You don't and even in shops, I've seen different revisions of the same router on sale.

That said, Linksys and Netgear aren't always better, but from my personal experience with Netgear, they've been quite good at releasing at least security updates for their consumer products.

I would recommend an AC1750 router at the very least though. Also, more "premium" models tend to be supported longer.
If you still want something affordable, have a look at the TP-Link AC1900 (C7), it's the same price as the AC1750 on Amazon and features better hardware internally.
All version of the C9 have had recent firmware updates that protects against krack at least.


----------



## n-ster (Apr 4, 2018)

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/

Great resource for router performance etc.

What are you looking for? Are you looking for the best throughput? Best range?


----------



## Durvelle27 (Apr 4, 2018)

n-ster said:


> https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/
> 
> Great resource for router performance etc.
> 
> What are you looking for? Are you looking for the best throughput? Best range?


Range and output

Internet speed is 200/50 and about 1400Sqft

A lot of devices are wired but we still have 3 4K TVs and 2 Xbox Ones along with mobile devices that are wireless


----------



## eidairaman1 (Apr 4, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> Range and output
> 
> Internet speed is 200/50 and about 1400Sqft
> 
> A lot of devices are wired but we still have 3 4K TVs and 2 Xbox Ones along with mobile devices that are wireless



2 story?


----------



## Durvelle27 (Apr 4, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> 2 story?


Single story home


----------



## Bill_Bright (Apr 4, 2018)

I have this Linksys AC1200 and I really like it.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Apr 4, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> Single story home



Easier to deal with on reception

Just give it space from walls, keep it open air, dont stuff in a cabinet, keep it elevated too.

Ive had pretty good experiences with Netgear myself, not so much with linksys with all the revision models...


----------



## Durvelle27 (Apr 4, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> Easier to deal with on reception
> 
> Just give it space from walls, keep it open air, dont stuff in a cabinet, keep it elevated too.
> 
> Ive had pretty good experiences with Netgear myself, not so much with linksys with all the revision models...


So which from the list would you recommend


----------



## eidairaman1 (Apr 4, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> So which from the list would you recommend



Netgear is my first choice, TP Link second.

Bear in mind 5GHz signals do not travel as far as 2.4GHz too.


----------



## Jetster (Apr 4, 2018)

TP-Link AC1750 is a good router. Great range, reliable I had one a few years years ago so its a little dated but it works


----------



## Bill_Bright (Apr 4, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> Single story home





eidairaman1 said:


> Easier to deal with on reception


Not necessarily. Single story homes tend to be spread out more, often resulting in longer distances and more barriers between end points. When it comes to barriers, there is little (if any) difference between a floor/ceiling and a wall - if nothing in the wall!

For example, I live in a 2 story home. It is probably no more than 12 feet between my wireless router on the 2nd floor and the wireless device downstairs with only one barrier (the floor/ceiling) in between. But it is about 25 feet between the router and the wireless device in the spare bedroom on this same floor and there are 3 walls (one with pipes, all 3 with wires) between them. While I still get good signal strength throughout my home, it is definitely stronger at the device downstairs. And since that is used for HD Netflix streaming, that good signal strength is important.

So it really depends on where you place your wireless router, the type and orientation of its antennas, the numbers of barriers, the composition and contents of those barriers (wood or metal studs, wires, metal pipes), and of course, distance between endpoints.

For sure, I recommend you get a router with external, movable antennas. Detachable antennas can help too. 

My last router was a Netgear and I have no complaints about it. I only replaced it because my new Blu-Ray player and smart TV support 802.11ac and that Netgear only 11n. I picked the Linksys because of the reviews. And like I said, I've been very happy with it so far.


----------



## silkstone (Apr 4, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> Yet another thread on needing a router guys
> 
> Welp moral of the story is my current router decided to kick the bucket and no longer turns on so I’m in need of a new one for the family needs. I have a list of routers I have looked at but I’m not very good with networking so wondering out of the options I listed is the best choice. Please no other recommendations
> 
> ...



You might want to look out for deals on a Netgear R6700. It's an excellent router that can be upgraded to a R7000 and DD-WRT. It often sells for ~$60-$70.
Great range on the N band. The AC band doesn't travel all that well through concrete walls, but that's generally what you get with AC wireless.


----------



## _JP_ (Apr 4, 2018)

Archer C7 V2 user here.
Bonkers range (as in long, both bands), decent Wi-Fi performance. If the USBs being 2.0 don't bother you (they don't to me, close to 20MB/s out of them is usual), it's a solid network drive solution.
Has a lot of options for networking, just not for VLANs and other managed access type rules (stickies and all that). Has ACLs for your regular IPs/MACs.
Can't vouch for the others, but have been using mine for 3 years now happily. Will add heatsinks to it to endure this summer, since I suspect heat is getting in the way of performance when lots of wireless clients are around.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Apr 4, 2018)

_JP_ said:


> Archer C7 V2 user here.
> Bonkers range (as in long, both bands), decent Wi-Fi performance. If the USBs being 2.0 don't bother you (they don't to me, close to 20MB/s out of them is usual), it's a solid network drive solution.
> Has a lot of options for networking, just not for VLANs and other managed access type rules (stickies and all that). Has ACLs for your regular IPs/MACs.
> Can't vouch for the others, but have been using mine for 3 years now happily. Will add heatsinks to it to endure this summer, since I suspect heat is getting in the way of performance when lots of wireless clients are around.


Have no need for USB ports on the router as I never use them anyways 

But I am seeing many good reviews on the AC1750 and its capabilities


----------



## Jetster (Apr 4, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> Not necessarily. Single story homes tend to be spread out more, often resulting in longer distances and more barriers between end points. When it comes to barriers, there is little (if any) difference between a floor/ceiling and a wall - if nothing in the wall!



Gonna have to respectfully disagree with this. Not only from my own two story experience but from how a house is built. Floors are much stronger than walls by about 10 fold. Many are wood and concrete with steal reinforcement, when other can be just wood. But on top of that is the angles and then baths which have iron tubs and plumbing all effect the signal (which you did mention) . So the hardest direction of a wireless signal is a two story with a diagonal across the house and a bath in between. This is what I have and not many routers can handle it. But most will go half a block down the street. Just my experience


----------



## Bones (Apr 4, 2018)

Replaced my router last week and got myself a TPLink TL-WR1043N router, so far it's worked fine and setup wasn't too bad to do.

Probrably an older model but since my budget was limited it's what I got, the previous TP router I had worked fine until I had to change my web service which didn't use the same connections, making it useless. The one I just replaced was an older Belkin router I got for free.

Got it from work and it was being tossed because it had quit working but they never bothered to figure out why - I did (Bad power supply) and ran it for at least 3 years.

Still works now but wanted something newer and better overall, I put it away as a backup "Just in case".

EDIT:
Added a link for this model router: TP-LINK TL-WR1043ND Wireless N Gigabit Router Up to 300Mbps/ USB port x1/ Detachable Antenna x3/ IP QoS/ QSS Button - Newegg.com 
Maybe not the best but if your budget is limited like mine was then it could be what you need..... Maybe.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Apr 4, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> Have no need for USB ports on the router as I never use them anyways
> 
> But I am seeing many good reviews on the AC1750 and its capabilities



Look at the AC1900, same price, better hardware. I guess you didn't read my first post?



Jetster said:


> Gonna have to respectfully disagree with this. Not only from my own two story experience but from how a house is built. Floors are much stronger than walls by about 10 fold. Many are wood and concrete with steal reinforcement, when other can be just wood. But on top of that is the angles and then baths which have iron tubs and plumbing all effect the signal (which you did mention) . So the hardest direction of a wireless signal is a two story with a diagonal across the house and a bath in between. This is what I have and not many routers can handle it. But most will go half a block down the street. Just my experience



Yeah, you're right, especially if the floors are made with concrete and metal, which is often the case. I live in a three story house with only 2-3 rooms on each floor, so sideways is not a problem, up and down on the other hand... 
I have to have an AP on each floor to have decent Wi-Fi coverage.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Apr 4, 2018)

TheLostSwede said:


> Look at the AC1900, same price, better hardware. I guess you didn't read my first post?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am limited to the options I have listed


----------



## Bill_Bright (Apr 4, 2018)

Jetster said:


> Gonna have to respectfully disagree with this.





TheLostSwede said:


> Yeah, you're right, especially if the floors are made with concrete and metal


Gee whiz! Come on guys! Lets be real. First off, I said "not necessarily". That means it might be, or it might not be. And for sure, neither your house or mine represents every house in the world! So I even clarified my claim with,


Bill_Bright said:


> So it really depends on where you place your wireless router, the type and orientation of its antennas, the numbers of barriers, the composition and contents of those barriers (wood or metal studs, wires, metal pipes), and of course, distance between endpoints.



And how many "houses" have you seen with concrete floors between the stories? That's just silly. Apartments? Maybe. Single family houses? No. It yours does, that's a very rare exception.

You guys can disagree all you want but 3 walls is a much greater barrier than 1 floor. My one floor has 3/8 inch wood flooring, 6 inch joists and 1/2 inch wall board ceiling underneath. No wires. No pipes. My walls have 2x4 ( really 1.5 X 3.5) studs and 1/2 inch wall board on each side, with wires for the ceiling light and light switch, and wall outlets in every wall of each room. That is less than 7 inches vs 13.5 inches. And like I said, that is also 12 feet vs 25+ feet.

And it is just common sense that a 1500 square foot 2 story house, for example, has a much smaller footprint than a 1500 square foot 1 story house. That's just a fact with ranch floor plans vs 2 story floor plans.


----------



## _JP_ (Apr 4, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> Have no need for USB ports on the router as I never use them anyways
> 
> But I am seeing many good reviews on the AC1750 and its capabilities


Thing is, Gigabit all around, so for wired connections it doesn't break a sweat. It really doesn't.
WiFi is another story, when it was just laptops, 5 to 6 would get a very good speed...now with smartphones and constant signal usage, things get a little different.
It doesn't give in to the pressure that easily (no drops), but speeds start to slow if everyone is using it. (My case, 4 laptops and 6 smartphones)
You do get to configure guest wireless with bandwidth throttling and set schedules for absolutely everything, so I get around the smartphone network hogging with that.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Apr 5, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> Not necessarily. Single story homes tend to be spread out more, often resulting in longer distances and more barriers between end points. When it comes to barriers, there is little (if any) difference between a floor/ceiling and a wall - if nothing in the wall!
> 
> For example, I live in a 2 story home. It is probably no more than 12 feet between my wireless router on the 2nd floor and the wireless device downstairs with only one barrier (the floor/ceiling) in between. But it is about 25 feet between the router and the wireless device in the spare bedroom on this same floor and there are 3 walls (one with pipes, all 3 with wires) between them. While I still get good signal strength throughout my home, it is definitely stronger at the device downstairs. And since that is used for HD Netflix streaming, that good signal strength is important.
> 
> ...



Bill, I was a network Services Tech for Ma Bell. The only homes that gave difficulty were u shaped homes, or ridiculously huge 2 stories. In that case 2 routers were recommended


----------



## Durvelle27 (Apr 5, 2018)

Router will be at the center of the house just before you get to the bedrooms


----------



## Bill_Bright (Apr 5, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> Router will be at the center of the house just before you get to the bedrooms


A centralized location is typically best when nodes (the distant ends) are scattered equidistant from the router. Of course, router placement is often dictated by the location of the modem or where the cable from the ISP appears in the home, so we often have little choice.

I might suggest you use a "packet sniffer" program like XIRRUS WiFi Inspector or NirSoft's WifiInfoView on a wireless notebook. You can use these programs to measure signal strength as you walk around your home. You can also use these programs to view all the wireless networks in your area. This can be important as you can also determine which channel your network is on and which channels are unused or less used in your neighborhood. Choosing an unused channel typically ensures the best wifi performance. Crowded wifi environments cause interference problems, and are a big problem in large apartment complexes.

If you find you are on the same (or adjacent) channel to other nearby wifi networks, you can easily change the channel your WAP's (wireless access point - typically integrated with a wireless router) admin menu.



eidairaman1 said:


> Bill, I was a network Services Tech for Ma Bell.


Okay. As seen via the link in my sig I've been a certified "radio" technician since 1971 and have been working with computers and networks since 1975. Neither set of qualifications changes the facts.

Note you are the one that said "_single story_" homes are "_easier to deal with on reception_". That has nothing to do with U shape or whether the building is huge or tiny. And it is immaterial anyway.

Radio waves in the UHF and SHF (ultra and super high frequency) bands (2.4GHz and 5GHz respectively) have the propagation characteristic of being "line-of-sight" - that is, they travel in a straight line. Radio waves in those bands don't bounce, they don't curve as happens with frequencies in other bands. Therefore, *the shape of the home*, whether cube, single story, 2-story or 6-story, rectangular, U, round or completely irregular *is totally irrelevant*!

The facts I stated above remain the same and what matters for efficient and quality of the RF propagation and reception for wifi networks "_depends on where you place your wireless router, the type and orientation of its antennas, the numbers of barriers, the composition and contents of those barriers (wood or metal studs, wires, metal pipes), and of course, distance between endpoints._"

And just for the record, these facts, which are based on the Laws of Physics that govern the propagation characteristics of the radio frequency bands in the "radio spectrum" have absolutely nothing to do with the fact this is a computer network. Wifi is a "radio network". The information (data) carried by the radio waves is immaterial.

Now for sure, if you are a qualified radio technician or an engineer and have discovered how to change the Laws of Physics, or that the 120+ year-old understanding of the propagation of radio waves is wrong, then I would urge you to write a paper and submit it for peer review and publication to:
​The Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE)​​or​​The Society of Broadcast Engineers​9102 North Meridian Street, Suite 150​Indianapolis, IN 46260​


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Apr 5, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> In that case 2 routers were recommended


One router, two wireless access points. 


Personally, I think they would all work fine.  I would caution against Linksys though because they got bought out by Belkin whom wants to get bought out by Broadcom.  Support might be chaotic.  If it were my money, I'd probably go Netgear out of that list.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Apr 5, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> A centralized location is typically best when nodes (the distant ends) are scattered equidistant from the router. Of course, router placement is often dictated by the location of the modem or where the cable from the ISP appears in the home, so we often have little choice.
> 
> I might suggest you use a "packet sniffer" program like XIRRUS WiFi Inspector or NirSoft's WifiInfoView on a wireless notebook. You can use these programs to measure signal strength as you walk around your home. You can also use these programs to view all the wireless networks in your area. This can be important as you can also determine which channel your network is on and which channels are unused or less used in your neighborhood. Choosing an unused channel typically ensures the best wifi performance. Crowded wifi environments cause interference problems, and are a big problem in large apartment complexes.
> 
> ...


I find it funny that you're telling me something I already know about UHF and VHF. My avatar shows what I was apart of I wasn't a knuckle dragger or load toad, I was a pointy head
Fyi, I did repairs,  biggest complaint were are all the people who own homes that were in the shape of u, Wi-Fi reception because of line of sight,  the amount of walls they had to go through and then whatever metal that was in those walls and just as another note for you as well Bill I've dealt with UHF and VHF, datalinks, iff, radar, harm Tgt systems, ecm. The easiest Wi-Fi fixes were removing the Gateway out from inside of a cabinet


----------



## Bill_Bright (Apr 5, 2018)

FordGT90Concept said:


> I would caution against Linksys though because they got bought out by Belkin whom wants to get bought out by Broadcom.


Actually, Belkin was just bought by Foxconn and IMO, that is a very good thing, not bad. Foxconn is a highly reputable and growing company that just announced they are building a huge $10 Billion factory in Wisconsin. 

But to the point about Belkin specifically, according to the Foxconn press releases, the Belkin subsidiary will continue to be run separately. So support "_should_" not be affected. Of course that can change but even if it does, again Foxconn is a reputable company so I would not expect support will degrade even if the way it works changes.


eidairaman1 said:


> I find it funny that you're telling me something I already know about UHF and VHF.


I know what your avatar means. We've discussed our service, which I appreciate, BTW, via PM before. But to your avatar,  you should then know a U shaped building has nothing to do with anything here, yet you tried to convince others it did.  It was the number and consistency of the barriers and distance, if anything - which you only now admit to! Thank you. Now lets move on. Okay?


----------



## silkstone (Apr 5, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> Radio waves in those bands don't bounce, they don't curve as happens with frequencies in other bands. Therefore, *the shape of the home*, whether cube, single story, 2-story or 6-story, rectangular, U, round or completely irregular *is totally irrelevant*!



UHF and SHF should still diffract through doorways and around corners. I have no idea as to how much though. 
Certainly not as much as lower frequencies, but UHF diffraction can have an affect over large distances and cause interference to radio telescopes which are often built in valleys.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Apr 5, 2018)

silkstone said:


> UHF and SHF should still diffract through doorways and around corners


Not RF in those frequency bands. They can reflect off some surfaces but that greatly degrades the signal strength - which is very low from the start. Again, these bands are line of site. Even if reflected, they shoot off in another straight line. They do not curve around corners. Instead, they would try to go through the wall. But any barrier will attenuate it - as will distance. 

And still, if the router is in one room, and the computer is on the other side of the wall, the RF is not going to search for hallways to get away from trying to go through the wall.

It is important to note that the RF output from a router is just 100mW. And of course, that is disbursed in an omnidirectional pattern which means the signal strength reaching the wireless device is significantly less.

It is nothing like the 10 and 50W UHF systems used by air traffic control facilities that have high-gain, exterior-mounted antennas. Those (and higher wattage systems) are the systems that might cause such interference with radio telescopes (which, by the way, use extremely directional antennas which are much less susceptible to interference not coming directly into the antenna). But frankly, there is likely to be some radio air wave regulatory agency (like the FCC here in the US)  watching over things in those scenarios to prevent such interference - which would be very costly.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Apr 6, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> Actually, Belkin was just bought by Foxconn and IMO, that is a very good thing, not bad. Foxconn is a highly reputable and growing company that just announced they are building a huge $10 Billion factory in Wisconsin.
> 
> But to the point about Belkin specifically, according to the Foxconn press releases, the Belkin subsidiary will continue to be run separately. So support "_should_" not be affected. Of course that can change but even if it does, again Foxconn is a reputable company so I would not expect support will degrade even if the way it works changes.


Foxconn is not reputable, nor is Belkin.  The thing Foxconn is most known for is suicides and attempted suicides at their Apple slave-labor facilities in China. Belkin itself got in trouble in 2009-2011 for encouraging employees to up-rate Belkin products at online stores.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Apr 6, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> Actually, Belkin was just bought by Foxconn and IMO, that is a very good thing, not bad. Foxconn is a highly reputable and growing company that just announced they are building a huge $10 Billion factory in Wisconsin.
> 
> But to the point about Belkin specifically, according to the Foxconn press releases, the Belkin subsidiary will continue to be run separately. So support "_should_" not be affected. Of course that can change but even if it does, again Foxconn is a reputable company so I would not expect support will degrade even if the way it works changes.
> I know what your avatar means. We've discussed our service, which I appreciate, BTW, via PM before. But to your avatar,  you should then know a U shaped building has nothing to do with anything here, yet you tried to convince others it did.  It was the number and consistency of the barriers and distance, if anything - which you only now admit to! Thank you. Now lets move on. Okay?



Bill I'm just going to let you know the reason why I say that about you shaped homes because of the amount of walls that are required in those homes you keep them structurally sound. To mitigate those problems pretty much let them know that they need to have another line ran into another router installed to give them the umbrella effect.

I'm also going by first-hand experience out in the field


----------



## silkstone (Apr 6, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> Not RF in those frequency bands. They can reflect off some surfaces but that greatly degrades the signal strength - which is very low from the start. Again, these bands are line of site. Even if reflected, they shoot off in another straight line. They do not curve around corners. Instead, they would try to go through the wall. But any barrier will attenuate it - as will distance.
> 
> And still, if the router is in one room, and the computer is on the other side of the wall, the RF is not going to search for hallways to get away from trying to go through the wall.
> 
> ...



All waves diffract around corners to some extent. Even light. It's high frequency, so the effect is low, but WiFi is a few orders of magnitude lower than the frequency of light.

Here's a study on the effect: https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/jres/65D/jresv65Dn5p437_A1b.pdf

And here's an article on what happens inside a house: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/08/mapping-wi-fi-dead-zones-with-physics-and-gifs/
I haven't fully read through the citation, but it seems to mainly deal with refraction of the waves, though you can see the wifi signal bending around the corners and not simply propagating in a LoS way.

I'm not trying to say that you are wrong with anything you've said, just that it's a little more complex than simply being line of sight.
At the end of the day, it is the number and composition of barriers that make the biggest difference. Where I live, an expansive single story building is easier to deal with than a 2-story house. that's because the ceilings are typically around a foot of rebar strengthened concrete whereas walls are just brick with a much thinner layer of concrete.
People don't usually build with wood (in the cities) here as the climate causes them to rot very quickly.

My current WiFi set up will not propagate through the apartment's floors at all, but that is because because the floors are very very thick. Hell, due to the walls in my apartment the signal doesn't even reach the master bedroom with any strength and that is no more than 20 feet away. If I keep the door open, however, the signal fills the room. I actually find it to be a good thing as I don't have to deal with interference from other networks and I just put a 2.4Ghz AP in the master bedroom.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Apr 6, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> Bill I'm just going to let you know the reason why I say that about you shaped homes because of the amount of walls that are required in those homes you keep them structurally sound.


I agree with this. But this is really about the number and consistency of the barriers, not the fact the home is U shaped. The same number and consistency of walls can happen in any shape home.

This latest point you make is actually contradicting your initial claim and reinforces mine! You said in post #8 single story homes are "easier to deal with on reception". That's an "absolute" statement implying "all" single stories homes are easier. Yet can't U shaped homes be single storied? Of course they can. And isn't your point about U shaped homes due to fact they are spread out, thus more barriers and distance between endpoints? Just like many ranch style homes? And for sure, a house does not have to be U shaped for the shortest distance between the end points to still be between two or more exterior walls either. Many homes are L shaped or something other than square or rectangular. Even multilevel homes.

So my reply in post #12 that your claim of single story homes are "easier to deal with" is "not necessarily" true is totally valid. Yet you took up and continued to disagree, pursuing with your absolutes. Sorry, but that's just BS.


silkstone said:


> All waves diffract around corners to some extent. Even light. It's high frequency, so the effect is low, but WiFi is a few orders of magnitude lower than the frequency of light.


Come on! Again, it is time to get real here. This is about *usable* RF signal strength. There's a HUGE difference between practical and theoretical. For the record, I used to train and certify new techs on air traffic control radio systems as part of my professional career. I have also setup wireless networks in many homes and offices (of all shapes and sizes) as part of my own IT consulting business.

There are several major phenomenons that come in to play when you start talking about radio wave in these line of sight (worth repeating!) frequency bands bouncing off walls and going around corners. We are not talking about waveguides here where all the energy is concentrated down a single path with corners (bends) precisely "tuned" to the wavelength of the frequency being carried! The RF in wifi networks is transmitted in an omnidirectional pattern (like a sphere) meaning a few scant microvolts (or less) of energy is heading to each receiving end. By far, the greatest amount of energy is simply "lost in space" or absorbed into the Earth.

By the way, line of sight, when it comes to radio waves, does not necessarily mean there are no barriers between the endpoints. You cannot shine a line of sight light through a wall, but a line of sight radio signal can go through the barrier (depending on the barrier).

Walls are not made of super reflective materials. This means that 100% of RF energy cruising along at the speed of light down your hallway is NOT going to bounce off the wall at the end of the hallway. Nor is it suddenly going to hang a left into the computer room. The signal hitting the wall is going to be divided several times with some penetrating the wall and continuing in a straight line, and some is simply going to be absorbed by the materials in that wall. 

Only a small fraction, a much weaker signal, is going to bounce. And it is not going to bounce off in a single direction. No, it is going to scatter into a million different directions with even much weaker signals. 

In the meantime, we are still adding more and more distance between the endpoints, with further attenuation of the signal strength. 

So it comes down to ensuring a strong enough and usable RF signal at the distant end for effective wifi networking.

But there's still more! Because the RF signal from the router has been split and divided multiple times, you are talking about the receiving end receiving the same signal multiple times, but at different times because they traveled different distances to get there. The signals are "out of phase". Not good. This "_multipath propagation_" causes "_multipath interference_" the receiver must deal with, so it can lock onto the strongest signal - which is almost always the straight line route. 

So for the purpose of this conversation, and this thread, I say lets be realistic and discuss the strongest, usable signal strength, and not theoretical signals even though they do exist.


----------



## silkstone (Apr 6, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> I agree with this. But this is really about the number and consistency of the barriers, not the fact the home is U shaped. The same number and consistency of walls can happen in any shape home.
> 
> This latest point you make is actually contradicting your initial claim and reinforces mine! You said in post #8 single story homes are "easier to deal with on reception". That's an "absolute" statement implying "all" single stories homes are easier. Yet can't U shaped homes be single storied? Of course they can. And isn't your point about U shaped homes due to fact they are spread out, thus more barriers and distance between endpoints? Just like many ranch style homes? And for sure, a house does not have to be U shaped for the shortest distance between the end points to still be between two or more exterior walls either. Many homes are L shaped or something other than square or rectangular. Even multilevel homes.
> 
> ...



I know what line of sight means  it's more to do with the refractive index of the walls, which is much higher than air that allows the radio signals to 'bend' rather than continuing in a straight line. It's the same phenomena as apparent depth when looking into a pool.

Here's a video of it in action where you can see the effect quite clearly. Coincidentally, the floor plan and router placement of that apartment is similar to mine and exactly what I notice when mapping Wifi strength in my apartment.










I'm not an expert on WiFi and I only commented because the theory is interesting. It is all Physics and the theory should be in line with reality when the calculations are done correctly. Whether that means a 1 story or 2 story house is better for WiFi, I don't really know (or care), but I'm sure the answer is "It depends on what the house is made of"


----------



## Bill_Bright (Apr 6, 2018)

Notice I did not disagree with you? So I don't understand you continuing this line. And did you notice in your video that bounced signals were weaker and scattered, and some of the signal still went straight through?


silkstone said:


> It is all Physics and the theory should be in line with reality.


It is in line with reality. 





> Whether that means a 1 story or 2 story house is better for WiFi, I don't really know (or care), but I'm sure the answer is "It depends on what the house is made of"


It absolutely has to do with what it is made of - that is, 





Bill_Bright said:


> So it really depends on where you place your wireless router, the type and orientation of its antennas, the numbers of barriers, the composition and contents of those barriers (wood or metal studs, wires, metal pipes), and of course, distance between endpoints.


So it does not just matter what the house/barriers are made of, but where in the house (regardless the shape of the house or number of floors) the two endpoint are located within that specific house.


----------



## Kursah (Apr 6, 2018)

You guys have an interesting conversation about signal science, it needs to become its own topic if it is going to proceed any further. Stick to what the OP needs for this topic. Thanks!


----------



## Durvelle27 (Apr 8, 2018)

Thanks guys I decided on the TP-Link AC1350 due to the deal I got on it and the reviews I’ve seen on it.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Apr 8, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> Thanks guys I decided on the TP-Link AC1350 due to the deal I got on it and the reviews I’ve seen on it.



Good choice, I put in a TP-Link pcie wifi card on an Athlon64 machine, reception is pretty good, same with transfer speeds.

For me I've had best results as of stability and reliability from Netgear, TP-Link and Trendnet, not so much with Linksys-Cisco/Belkin/D-Link/Asus.


----------



## erocker (Apr 8, 2018)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Foxconn is not reputable, nor is Belkin.  The thing Foxconn is most known for is suicides and attempted suicides at their Apple slave-labor facilities in China. Belkin itself got in trouble in 2009-2011 for encouraging employees to up-rate Belkin products at online stores.


They mostly make things for other companies. They wouldn't have much of a consumer reputation to begin with.

Id go with the Netgear router though for a home network any of them would work


----------



## taz420nj (Apr 8, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> And how many "houses" have you seen with concrete floors between the stories? That's just silly. Apartments? Maybe. Single family houses? No. It yours does, that's a very rare exception.
> 
> .



Mine did...  Check out those I-beams...  House was built in 1939.  The place was a nightmare for wifi (and any radio signal in general).  I had 4 APs, one in the basement, two upstairs, and one in the garage. I couldn't even get FM or weather band without an outdoor antenna.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Apr 9, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> Good choice, I put in a TP-Link pcie wifi card on an Athlon64 machine, reception is pretty good, same with transfer speeds.
> 
> For me I've had best results as of stability and reliability from Netgear, TP-Link and Trendnet, not so much with Linksys-Cisco/Belkin/D-Link/Asus.


So far for me

I’ve had bad experiences from D-Link and Belkin. Multiple routers through them either died or had spotty signal

So far with the TP-Link router the signal is really good throughout the entire house. Didn’t even need to use my AP. I even get signal at the edge of my back yard which is really big

But what’s a kick in the nuts is the router is a AC router which is suppose to support 450Mbps(2.4GHz) & 870Mbps(5GHz) but the wan port is only 10/100Mbps which is dumb

My internet plan is 300Mbps


----------



## eidairaman1 (Apr 9, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> So far for me
> 
> I’ve had bad experiences from D-Link and Belkin. Multiple routers through them either died or had spotty signal
> 
> ...



I'd ask tp-link some questions relating to it. Otherwise send it back for a model of theirs that supports 1Gbps


----------



## Durvelle27 (Apr 9, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> I'd ask tp-link some questions relating to it. Otherwise send it back for a model of theirs that supports 1Gbps


I did. I directly contacted TP-Link and they stated yes it’s true the wan port and lan ports are only 10/100Mbps and I told them that’s stupid to put a 10/100 wan port on what’s suppose to be a AC router. It’s a total rip off and it’s limiting my speed to 70-100Mbps out of 300


----------



## Bill_Bright (Apr 9, 2018)

taz420nj said:


> Mine did... Check out those I-beams... House was built in 1939.


And that was a single family home? Wow! Definitely an uncommon scenario. I wonder if there was a lumber shortage back then because of the war (even though we were not officially in it yet)? Or if concrete was cheaper because the Great Depression was barely over?


----------



## taz420nj (Apr 9, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> And that was a single family home? Wow! Definitely an uncommon scenario. I wonder if there was a lumber shortage back then because of the war (even though we were not officially in it yet)? Or if concrete was cheaper because the Great Depression was barely over?



Yeah it's a single family.  From the story I've heard about the house it was built by an oil tycoon for his daughter to withstand a beast tornado (its in the middle of Kansas), and he spared no expense. There are three sister houses with similar construction in other parts of town.  With the exception of partition walls built later to finish the basement, there is no wood whatsoever in the construction.  Exterior walls are double course brick.  Even the interior walls are brick with mudwall finish (concrete over metal mesh).  The floors are rebar and concrete over reinforced concrete beams.  The whole place is a faraday cage lol!

I sent you a PM


----------



## Bill_Bright (Apr 9, 2018)

taz420nj said:


> (its in the middle of Kansas)


Yeah, I'm just a little northeast of you in the Omaha area. So I am well aware of Tornado Alley! 


taz420nj said:


> The whole place is a faraday cage lol!


More like a bomb shelter!


----------

