# High End Build Advice/Help



## dstaiti (Apr 24, 2007)

Hello All!

First, this is a great site!  What a wealth of information.

Second, I need advice and suggestions on building my first PC.  I have never built my own system from scratch before.  I am going to use it for normal Internet type use, but I need a power house for playing games.  I am fortunate in that I don't have to keep on a tight budget.

It seems like the 8800GTX is the best card around, but from my research it seems that there are specific minimum guildlines with respect to RAM, Power Supplies, CPUs, etc. to get the most out of such a premium card.

Can anybody give me suggestions on what they would use for other components or recommend builds to get the max performance from this card?  If possible, be specific as I don't yet know all of the lingo.

THANKS!!!


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## dstaiti (Apr 24, 2007)

OK... I have come to some ideas on my own... what do you think?

Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021

Seagate ST3400632A-RK 400GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148218

Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148069

Thermaltake Toughpower W0128RU ATX12V / EPS12V 650W Power Supply 100 - 240 V - Retail 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153040

AMD Athlon 64 FX-62 Windsor 2.8GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Dual Core Processor - Retail 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103861

ASUS CROSSHAIR Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 590 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131593

EVGA 768-P2-N835-AR GeForce 8800GTX 768MB 384-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 SUPERCLOCKED HDCP Video Card - Retail 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130079


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## i_am_mustang_man (Apr 24, 2007)

get a conroe instead of the fx-62. e6600 if you can swing it, but e6400 otherwise. and get any 975 chipset that's good at overclocking, or the 680i mobo if you want to do sli eventually (i don't recommend it tho, you'd need a new psu too.)

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=0&t=498297


and get a sata hard drive for lord's sake, it's 2007!
maybe 2x320gb drives, (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148140) 
it'd be the same price

welcome to tpu, btw!


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## dstaiti (Apr 24, 2007)

Why Intel vs. AMD?  I hear that the AMD chips are easier to overclock and are generally faster for gaming purposes?  Either way, I can spend $300+ on the CPU alone, so what are my best options with either AMD or Intel in that range?  Secondly, what are my motherboard concerns with either?

Can you explain SLI?  Is that running 2 GPUs at the same time?  Will I really need that with a TOL 8800 GTX???

Are you in Boston by the way?  I live in the area too... I'd hire you as a consultant so I don't screw this build up!!!


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## i_am_mustang_man (Apr 24, 2007)

currently, intel is much faster than amd in everything but memory access, but for gaming intel is faster. plus these new conroes overclock like crazy.

you don't need sli, but you would need to get a 680i mobo in order to do so, but don't do that anyways, so just get a 975 based motherboard. other people here know more about conroe mobos than i, and they will tell you which ones in particular. 

also, out of curiousity what resolution are going to be running? 

btw, that's the best case evar, imo. sweet build! i am in boston, but taking finals for the next 3 weeks, so i will be unavailable mostly! but i will be more than happy to consult online for free


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## bruins004 (Apr 24, 2007)

Not a bad for a first try.
I am impressed since you never built a system before and its all compatable 
Anyways, I am suggesting you are using this for gaming?  Am I correct?  If not then what?
Also, what is your budget?

Anyways, these days Intel's C2Ds are the better processors (unless you are going for a budget build).
So I would suggest to stick with Intel since they have the newer and better architecture currently.
You will obv. have to change your motherboard as well this means.

As for the Hard Drive, you may want to consider a SATA hard driver instead of a PATA (or IDE) hard drive.  The main reasons are many high end mobos are getting rid of 2 PATA interfaces and only use 1 now (which is used by your DVD and/or CD Drives).  The other is that data travels faster over SATA.

As with your memory, very good choice.
I would agree to stick with the Crucial Ballistix 2 x 1GB kit, but go for either DDR2-667 or DDR2-800 RAM.  Go with the DDR2-800 RAM only if you are going to OC.  If not then stick with the DDR2-667 RAM.  The reason I say dont bother with the DDR2-1066 RAM is bc you wont see any benefits from this RAM over the others and it isnt worth the premium.  Plus, the DDR2-667 and DDR2-800 modules can reach DDR2-1066 when OCed.

I would suggest looking at Corsairs Power Supplies.  They are one of the best brands out right now and they are modular (which helps when building and doing wire management).
When shopping for a power supply you mainly want to pay attention to the amps provided on the 12V line(s).  This is what powers most of the components in your computer.  Plus the Corsair PSUs offer one of the highest effeciency percentages.

Very nice video card choice (Can't beat EVGA either )

Nice Case (it is very popular).

So here is my build list:  (If you have any questions, I would be happy to help and answer them)

*Processor*
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 - $235
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115003
With this you can get Supreme Commander free with the Combo Deal 

*Motherboard:*
EVGA 122-CK-NF68-T1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - $189.99 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188012

*Memory:*
Now with the memory you have a few choices:
I see those Crucial are actually the cheapest ones on newegg and is a good buy.  But if you want to save money try these.  These modules contain Micron D9 memory chips (the same used in the Crucial)
G Skill DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Set - $159.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231065

*Power Supply:*
Corsair 620HX PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139002  -$140 AR
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=373110    -$123 AR

*Hard Drive:*
Get 2 of these and RAID them
Western Digital 250GB SATA Hard Drive - $70
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136046

*Video Card:*
EVGA 8800GTX - $579.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130079

*Case:*
Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case -$129.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021

*TOTAL is rougly $1575*

By the way good time to build a system.  Intel and AMD has just had price cuts and DDR2 RAM is really priced very low.


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## dstaiti (Apr 24, 2007)

Thanks for the advice.  I didn't know that about the Intel vs. AMD.

As for budget, I don't really have any constraints there.  Ideally, my wife will be unhappy if I creep up above $2000 to $2500, so if I can spend a little extra on any of the components you suggested and get some more longevity out of the system, I'll do it.

Also, when it comes to DVD drives, media card readers, mouse, keyboard, monitor, do you have any suggestions?  I know that a nice monitor might cost me some $$$.  Any recommendations?


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## mandelore (Apr 24, 2007)

Hmm, why not wait a bit and invest in an amd quad or r600 card? then blow the crap outa an intel rig?


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## bruins004 (Apr 24, 2007)

mandelore said:


> Hmm, why not wait a bit and invest in an amd quad or r600 card? then blow the crap outa an intel rig?



Bc you can wait forever and ever.  There is something always around the corner.
And Barcelona for mainstream desktops wont be out until end of Q3 or beginning of 2008.


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## bruins004 (Apr 24, 2007)

dstaiti said:


> Thanks for the advice.  I didn't know that about the Intel vs. AMD.
> 
> As for budget, I don't really have any constraints there.  Ideally, my wife will be unhappy if I creep up above $2000 to $2500, so if I can spend a little extra on any of the components you suggested and get some more longevity out of the system, I'll do it.
> 
> Also, when it comes to DVD drives, media card readers, mouse, keyboard, monitor, do you have any suggestions?  I know that a nice monitor might cost me some $$$.  Any recommendations?



For DVD Drives or CD Drives I usually use Lite-on drives, but really any that are cheap are good (usually around $30-$40).
Also, monitors have come down quite a bit.
It also depends on how big you want the monitor.
20.1" LCD monitors are now below $300.
I suggest taking a look at the Dell monitors if you want one of the best (its is good for almost everything).

As for the mouse, I suggest really any mouse.
If you want a gaming mouse check out the Logitech G5 (about $60).

For the keyboard, you could use any keyboard really.
If you want a high end keyboard then take a look at the Logitech G15 (its about $100)

I dont know much about card readers so I cannot help you there.


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## dstaiti (Apr 24, 2007)

Am I better off spending another $100 on a E6700 vs. the E6600?

Assuming I finalize a build similar to the specs you gave me, does this site, or any others, have any good online guides or walkthroughs to help guide a newbie through assembly, installing OS and drivers, testing, configuring, etc.???


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## bruins004 (Apr 24, 2007)

I know there are various guides on here on how to assemble a build.
As for the E6700 vs. E6600 - I dont believe the performance gain is worth $100 extra dollars.  It would be better spent elsewhere (like a monitor).  On top of that you wouldnt notice too much of a difference between the 2.


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## Grings (Apr 24, 2007)

if you wanted amd over intel, then a 6000x2 is better than an fx62, cheaper too, if i were to build a monster system like so, i'd go for a 700w or more psu, and not one by thermaltake (i've seen them get some good reviews recently, but i had a 480w one a couple of years ago and it was utter shite)


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## techbuzz (Apr 24, 2007)

bruins004 said:


> Not a bad for a first try.
> I am impressed since you never built a system before and its all compatable
> Anyways, I am suggesting you are using this for gaming?  Am I correct?  If not then what?
> Also, what is your budget?
> ...



Not true. AMD ROCKS!


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## bruins004 (Apr 24, 2007)

pcgolfer85 said:


> Not true. AMD ROCKS!



Not saying AMD doesnt rock.
I have 2 AMD systems myself over here.
Its just that the C2D does much better at the moment.
The only place the C2D cant compete at the moment is the lower budget end (Nothing can beat the X2 3600+ for $65).

But for this situation obv. Intel is the better option.
Lets not turn this thread into a fan boy thread.

PCGolfer, next time please add some useful info to the thread and not spam like you did above.


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## dstaiti (Apr 24, 2007)

Yes, no fan boy threads please!  

I'd appreciate it if you could recommend a _specific_ guide that is user friendly enough for a newbie like me.

As for the motherboard and power supply, am I builiding in adequate upgradability with a 7000W or more power supply and the motherboard recommended above?


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## bruins004 (Apr 24, 2007)

dstaiti said:


> Yes, no fan boy threads please!
> 
> I'd appreciate it if you could recommend a _specific_ guide that is user friendly enough for a newbie like me.
> 
> As for the motherboard and power supply, am I builiding in adequate upgradability with a 7000W or more power supply and the motherboard recommended above?



What kind of upgradeability are you looking for?
Are you thinking of SLIing 2 8800GTXs?

If so I have another PSU to recommend.
The Corsair PSU can handle 2 8800GTS and an 8800GTX.

As for the guide here it is (http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/other/144)
Also, if you want take a look on the techpowerup homepage and click on the Wiki, it has some nice guides in there as well.


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## dstaiti (Apr 24, 2007)

Sorry... newbie naiveté...

I want something that won't require I throw out every single component and upgrade again in 6 months.  I'd like a motherboard and power supply in a case that would allow me to keep those components for a while, and perhaps get a better CPU or GPU when something drastically better becomes available... does this even make sense???!?!?!!?!?


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## techbuzz (Apr 24, 2007)

This is a general statement:

At stock my AMD 64 6000+ runs much faster than the C2D e6400. If you are interested in overclocking your computer than Intel is the way to go.

If your like me and you want a 100% stable computer with zero problems, than AMD is the way to go.

Also, overclocking your chip could void the warranty.

I am sorry if I came accross as being a fanboy, but I am not.


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## bruins004 (Apr 24, 2007)

pcgolfer85 said:


> This is a general statement:
> 
> At stock my AMD 64 6000+ runs much faster than the C2D e6400. If you are interested in overclocking your computer than Intel is the way to go.
> 
> ...



An AMD 64 6000+ costs $240 and the E6400 costs $196.  The E6600 costs $250, so obv. Intel is the way to go.

Its ok...I just didnt want fan boys to hijack this thread.


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## techbuzz (Apr 24, 2007)

Not saying AMD doesnt rock.
I have 2 AMD systems myself over here.
Its just that the C2D does much better at the moment.
The only place the C2D cant compete at the moment is the lower budget end (Nothing can beat the X2 3600+ for $65).

But for this situation obv. Intel is the better option.
Lets not turn this thread into a fan boy thread.



bruins004 said:


> PCGolfer, next time please add some useful info to the thread and not spam like you did above.




Sorry.


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## bruins004 (Apr 24, 2007)

dstaiti said:


> Sorry... newbie naiveté...
> 
> I want something that won't require I throw out every single component and upgrade again in 6 months.  I'd like a motherboard and power supply in a case that would allow me to keep those components for a while, and perhaps get a better CPU or GPU when something drastically better becomes available... does this even make sense???!?!?!!?!?



I am like you and I like keeping my systems for 4+ years (not upgrading anything).
Throwing in a better processor is possible, the listed motherboard allows you to put Quad Cores in and better C2D processors as well.

If you want you can get a better PSU for better upgradibility.
Take a look at this page ( http://www.slizone.com/object/slizone_build_psu.html )
Look at the list under Dual 8800GTX SLI.
I would suggest getting either of the Silverstone PSUs.
But please note that most, if not all of these PSUs are about $200+.


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## i_am_mustang_man (Apr 24, 2007)

the e6600 is better than the e6700 due to price and oc ability. 
the e6600 is better than the e6400 due to the larger cache (4mb vs 2mb) and higher ratio and better overclocking

the e6600 is faster than the X2 6000+, esp when oc'ed. the intels are beastly overclockers.

as far as the psu debate is going, the thermaltake one you have selected is fine, but the best one around is this corsair

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139002

this will last a long time, has great efficiency, is modular, which is nice for making a clean looking build.

also, i recommend getting the 2 320gb drives over 2 250gb drives because for 20$ more, you get 140gb more storage, and perpendicular drives are faster in certain areas of performance. also, i might recommend not doing raid because if you are rather new, it can be uber frustrating losing all your data if one drive coughs out, instead of half if you leave the drives independent. and you really only gain speed in windows load time and game load time, and these not by much, it won't increase fps in games either.

but it is faster, but not necessary. i would raid, but it would be a gut check even for me.


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## bruins004 (Apr 24, 2007)

i_am_mustang_man said:


> the e6600 is better than the e6700 due to price and oc ability.
> the e6600 is better than the e6400 due to the larger cache (4mb vs 2mb) and higher ratio and better overclocking
> 
> the e6600 is faster than the X2 6000+, esp when oc'ed. the intels are beastly overclockers.
> ...



I agree that the Corsair is great, but it wont be able to handle 2 8800GTXs in SLI (which is something I believe he might be looking to do).
Also the 320GB drives you mentioned do not come with anything, except the drive itself.
SInce this is his first build, I listed retail to help him out a bit


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## WarEagleAU (Apr 24, 2007)

nice suggestions and you cannot beat that case. I have that case (first one here with it) and you will absolutely love it. Roomy as hell, great cooling and top notch. Get some swiffer cloths, so you can make your own filters (best in the biz really) and get a 120mm (12cm) Antec TriCool fan, so you can attach it to the side. Air cooling will work as well as some water cooling in this case, provided you plan out your build and maxmize air flow. Currently, I use water and rarely get to 30C on the cpu on an overclock. AMD is good and they have some great stuff out, you could go that route or wait for the Agena and Kuma cores to come out or you can go C2D. Either way, you wont be hurting on games. C2D is mainly a benchers lifeline really ( am an AMD fanboi myself) but they are great procs. Get that and an Asus Striker or Commando or any of their Extreme Gamer boards and youre set. That PSU he recommended will handle more than the rated 620W and thats coming from Corsair itself. It would power a Quad FX 74 system, 8800GTX in SLI and 2 hdds. According to their chieft technology officer.


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## bruins004 (Apr 24, 2007)

WarEagleAU said:


> nice suggestions and you cannot beat that case. I have that case (first one here with it) and you will absolutely love it. Roomy as hell, great cooling and top notch. Get some swiffer cloths, so you can make your own filters (best in the biz really) and get a 120mm (12cm) Antec TriCool fan, so you can attach it to the side. Air cooling will work as well as some water cooling in this case, provided you plan out your build and maxmize air flow. Currently, I use water and rarely get to 30C on the cpu on an overclock. AMD is good and they have some great stuff out, you could go that route or wait for the Agena and Kuma cores to come out or you can go C2D. Either way, you wont be hurting on games. C2D is mainly a benchers lifeline really ( am an AMD fanboi myself) but they are great procs. Get that and an Asus Striker or Commando or any of their Extreme Gamer boards and youre set. That PSU he recommended will handle more than the rated 620W and thats coming from Corsair itself. It would power a Quad FX 74 system, 8800GTX in SLI and 2 hdds. According to their chieft technology officer.



Yes it prob. can, but wouldnt it shorten the life span of the PSU?


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## i_am_mustang_man (Apr 24, 2007)

bruins004 said:


> I agree that the Corsair is great, but it wont be able to handle 2 8800GTXs in SLI (which is something I believe he might be looking to do).
> Also the 320GB drives you mentioned do not come with anything, except the drive itself.
> SInce this is his first build, I listed retail to help him out a bit



what do you need that comes in a retail kit? 
a manual? we're here
cables? those don't come with the hdd anyways, they will be with the mobo
sticker? ......

anyone would be fine with oem drives


and he didn't say he wanted to do sli, and I don't recommend sli unless you are buying two top of line cards at the same time. usually sli is bettered by a single card within a year, so i wouldn't get sli as an upgrade path, but that's just my opinion.

and that psu would probably handle sli gtxs anyways, as eagle notes.
check this
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTMwMSwsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0


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## dstaiti (Apr 24, 2007)

In addition to the fans, do I need water cooling?  Is this as difficult to install as it sounds?

Secondly, as a newbie, should I be OCing this build at all?  With these high end components, shouldn't I be getting a system that will run games well enough?


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## bruins004 (Apr 24, 2007)

i_am_mustang_man said:


> what do you need that comes in a retail kit?
> a manual? we're here
> cables? those don't come with the hdd anyways, they will be with the mobo
> sticker? ......
> ...



He said that he wouldnt mind adding to this rig or upgrading components (hence where I got SLI).
To be prepared for the worst one of those PSUs would be fine.
But I agree, I would rather get the Corsair


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## bruins004 (Apr 24, 2007)

dstaiti said:


> In addition to the fans, do I need water cooling?  Is this as difficult to install as it sounds?
> 
> Secondly, as a newbie, should I be OCing this build at all?  With these high end components, shouldn't I be getting a system that will run games well enough?



For a first build I suggest not to use watercooling.
Watercooling is only needed for extreme OCing (which you prob. wont do).

Now you may want to OC a little since this is your first time, but when you get your build done, just use it as is.
I suggest to OC later on after you read guides and fully understand everything.
The worst thing to do is to kill your components bc you dont know what to do.


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## dstaiti (Apr 24, 2007)

Ok... that sounds reasonable.  With respect to OCing, I can basically change bios settings just a little bit to squeeze slightly more performance out without pushing the system too far, right?

Do I have to worry about taking temperatures in the case?  Are there diagnostic tools to help do this?


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## WarEagleAU (Apr 24, 2007)

Corsairs PSUs are made by Seasonic and use 105c solid state capacitors and is tested as rigorous as PC Power & Coolings are. Id go  with either an Enermax DXX 1KW psu, PC Power and Coolin Quad 610 (650 or whatever it is) PC Power and Coolin 7XX or the Corsair 620.


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## techbuzz (Apr 24, 2007)

So the E6600 is faster than the X2 6000?


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## WarEagleAU (Apr 24, 2007)

yeah the E6600 stock and oc'd is faster than the X2 6000. However the 6400 and lower are not if I recall correctly (IIRC).


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## techbuzz (Apr 24, 2007)

How much faster are we talking (at stock)?


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## bruins004 (Apr 24, 2007)

WarEagleAU said:


> yeah the E6600 stock and oc'd is faster than the X2 6000. However the 6400 and lower are not if I recall correctly (IIRC).



That is correct.
Its pretty much the architecture.
With the AMD architecture it can do 8 processes per clock.
With the Intel architecture the processor can do 12 processors per clock.


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## i_am_mustang_man (Apr 25, 2007)

some smatterings from tomshardware cpu charts

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1=432&model2=694&chart=177
http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1=432&model2=694&chart=192
http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1=432&model2=694&chart=193
http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1=432&model2=694&chart=174
http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1=432&model2=694&chart=173

they go back and forth, but the e6600 is cheaper and will oc more (usually 4ghz+) so there's the definitive answer (imo)

also, checking futuremarks orb

the highest 3D06 score on an AMD is 12396
for intel e6600 below 4ghz is 

3DMark Score: 16374     	Untitled  	 
User: opening01@yahoo.co.kr 	Date: 2007-03-08 14:00:10.0
CPU: 	
Intel Core 2 3904 MHz
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6600 @ 2.40GHz($196.0+)
Intel Core 2 Duo E6420 / 2.13 GHz processor ($196.00+)
GPU: 	NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTX
Display Driver: 6.14.10.9792
Driver Status: WHQL - FM Approved
Motherboard Model: StrikerExtreme

that's ownage right there


you can search for yourself too

http://service.futuremark.com/orb/projectsearch.jsp


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## kwchang007 (Apr 25, 2007)

i've been looking at the thread and you should get an intel since they are faster right now.  you haven't picked an operating system, don't forget monitor and periphals.  you don't have to go 680i, like someone said before a 975 or even a 965 chipset will overclock well.  if you really are thinking about getting sli, then you do want the 680i but there's been some news on them, like it screwing up high end memory (did they solve this problem yet?).  ok everything has been said, good luck man.


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## dstaiti (Apr 25, 2007)

Ok... here is what I'm thinking of ordering for a final build... any last minute critiques, let me know!!!

Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129021

Western Digital 250GB SATA Hard Drive - $70
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136046

Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148069

PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad - Copper EPS12V 750W Power Supply 90 - 264 V UL, ULC, CE, CB, RoHS - Retail 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703008

Processor
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 - $235
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115003

Motherboard:
EVGA 122-CK-NF68-T1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - $189.99 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813188012

EVGA 768-P2-N835-AR GeForce 8800GTX 768MB 384-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 SUPERCLOCKED HDCP Video Card - Retail 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130079


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## GJSNeptune (Apr 25, 2007)

Whoa, don't order the e6600 from Newegg unless you've searched around for better prices. Right now, $235 is probably the average, but I know Fry's Outpost had them for $200. They're OOS now (of course), but maybe you can find it for less than $235.

Then again, ordering everything from Newegg has its benefits.

Looks good, although I don't think your system will draw anywhere near 750W, especially with one hard drive and one GPU.


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## dstaiti (Apr 25, 2007)

I want the extra power for now because I might potentially add a 2nd 8800GTX card down the road... will that require a second CPU???


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## GJSNeptune (Apr 25, 2007)

dstaiti said:


> I want the extra power for now because I might potentially add a 2nd 8800GTX card down the road... will that require a second CPU???



Ah, well, 750W is still a BOATLOAD of power. I don't think even an SLI setup would need that much. You'd be very surprised at how much power systems draw. Most people overdo it with their PSU. PC P&C make good power supplies, of course, and it won't do you any harm. If your budget is getting really tight, you can likely find a cheaper PSU that offers less power. You could get a Kill-A-Watt with the new system to see exactly how much power it really needs, and when you measure the video card, double it and add it to the total.

SLI and Crossfire don't depend on CPUs, at least not the amount of them. As long as your motherboard is SLI ready or supports SLI (or Crossfire where applicable) you should be fine.


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## dstaiti (Apr 25, 2007)

Luckily I don't have a budget constraint.  Is there any downside to the extra power with respect to heat, size, etc. with the case I have?


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## Namslas90 (Apr 25, 2007)

@ dstaiti, that PSU you listed in link, should be good for 2X 8800's.  Single 12v rail amps of 55 or more - powers the Mobo and should leave enough for both 8800's.  I would be worried about anything less.  
Here @ TPU we have seen many people that end up upset because they don't get the performance out of their High End GPU(s), mostly due to PSU's not supplying the Amps necessary on the 12v rail.
Remember, 20 amps too much only cost a few bucks, but 1 amp not enough and your rig don't perform right.


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## D007 (Apr 25, 2007)

you say money is not an issue. if that is the case then i would drop the duo core and run with a quad core processor.. otherwise the 6600 is fine.. your psu  will have to be at least 800 w more like 900-1000 likely.. something good like ocz is a good brand.. game extreme.. your going to need cooling and quite a bit of it if you get 2 gtx's..  if you overclock ( make your stuff run faster than it's suppose to) then you may need cooling for your cpu as well. all things to take into consideration.. be careful not to use to much thermal paste on your cpu and also not to little lol.. get some fans.. about 2 120's 2 80's is ok to get circulation in the case and make sure the case is a "full tower" size..   just some general advice.. hope it helps..


ps dont worry about overclocking yet ok..just build it first..lol..

if you want to think about overclocking so you dont have to do mutiple shipping bills then get some water cooling for it or something ( cooling for the gpu and the cpu).. but dont worry about it or what it does or even how to install it yet.. that'll come next.. and no it's not all that hard as long as you ahve some patience and you like doing things with your hands.. no, not those things...lol..
Make sure ( absolutely sure) EVERYTHING is compatible.. and once your sure it's compatible, ceck it again because just because someone says it's compatible doesnt mean it is at all..
some well placed fans can cool the 8800's for now no problem as long as you set the gpu fans to high speed. we can help you do that as well and it's very easy..
there is no down side to more power.. the psu vents it's own heat very well..
if you want to keep your room cool put the pc next to something with a vent lol.. im seriously thinking of runing something like a tube from the exhaust fan out the window or into the attic.. my room gets so hot now..lol..


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## dstaiti (Apr 25, 2007)

If I add the quad core, can you recommend a specific PSU and case to handle that?  Also, on the mid tower I had, the fans were built in... is there a similar model in a full tower that is good?  I care less about looks and more about efficiency.


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## Namslas90 (Apr 25, 2007)

D007 said:


> you say money is not an issue. if that is the case then i would drop the duo core and run with a quad core processor.. otherwise the 6600 is fine.. your psu  will have to be at least 800 w more like 900-1000 likely.. something good like ocz is a good brand.. game extreme.. your going to need cooling and quite a bit of it if you get 2 gtx's..  if you overclock ( make your stuff run faster than it's suppose to) then you may need cooling for your cpu as well. all things to take into consideration.. be careful not to use to much thermal paste on your cpu and also not to little lol.. get some fans.. about 2 120's 2 80's is ok to get circulation in the case and make sure the case is a "full tower" size..   just some general advice.. hope it helps..
> 
> ps dont worry about overclocking yet ok..just build it first..lol



Most sucesfull rigs with Quad cores and 2X 8800's (sli) are using an ENERMAX GALIXY series 850 or 1000.   Several member here have them, look in case gallery(Heavy H20 for example).


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## Namslas90 (Apr 25, 2007)

dstaiti said:


> If I add the quad core, can you recommend a specific PSU and case to handle that?  Also, on the mid tower I had, the fans were built in... is there a similar model in a full tower that is good?  I care less about looks and more about efficiency.



Get a full tower, better airflow, and more room to work.  Also look for side fans and/or top blowhole.  Make sure the blowhole clears an extra long PSU.


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## GJSNeptune (Apr 25, 2007)

Add some Arctic Silver to the list.


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## Namslas90 (Apr 25, 2007)

Lian-LI makes great cases, here's a couple links;
Here they are at newegg;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Suggested&Description=11-112
This one is realy big;
http://www.xoxide.com/lian-li-pc-343b-case.html


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## GJSNeptune (Apr 25, 2007)

I love my PC-65b, but my next rig will likely be housed in an A05b. I've even seen some watercooled A05Bs, and I think someone over at the [H] is building a phase change one.


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## D007 (Apr 25, 2007)

GJSNeptune said:


> Add some Arctic Silver to the list.



then take it off and put Mx-1 on the list..lol.. it's newer and better.. im assuming your talking about artic silver 5.
the bigger the case you get, the better.. with 2 gtx's your going to need all the room you can get.. although the mobo is the real restirctor at least you'll have elbow room to work in.. the asus striker extreme is the way to go on mobos unless that commando one is better. idk about the commando model.. i think thats a light model maybe..  the quad core is supported by that motherboard so no worries on that.. make sure everything you get is compatible.. like for your cpu cooling if you get after market make sure the cooler is for intel ( quad or duo core architecture) respectively. get a 1000w power supply.. you want to be safe.. thats safe ..lol.. especially with 2 gtx's.. and you sound like a guy who likes his toys so i bet your going to use thatextra power down the road for things like lights and extras.. better to have and not need than to need and not have is my motto..


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## GJSNeptune (Apr 25, 2007)

Wait, MX-1 is Arctic Silver's new compound, or is it a different company?


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## D007 (Apr 25, 2007)

im pretty sure it's their new compound.. i have some now and it's very nice.. sk-1 i think did a report on it here in the forums..

ps.. one more thing.. do yourself a favor if you want to be king bad ass..lol.. buy yourself about 3-4 hd's.. high end fast hd's (raptors) the more room the better seeing as games now a days take around 10 gb hd space per each game.... and we can show you how to link them up in raid later.. it will help your downloading installing and so forth speeds dramatically.


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## GJSNeptune (Apr 25, 2007)

Wow. I still have quite a bit of AS5 left, but maybe I'll keep MX-1 in mind for my next build. Of course, by then there will probably be another new compound.


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## D007 (Apr 25, 2007)

GJSNeptune said:


> Wow. I still have quite a bit of AS5 left, but maybe I'll keep MX-1 in mind for my next build. Of course, by then there will probably be another new compound.




idk mx1 just came out and artic 5 has been out a while.. personally if you want the best id wait and order the mx-1.. it will drop your temps about 4-5 more c than artic silver 5 after the set in time.. and thats very signifigant with performance and stability. 
i have like 3 tubes of paste here lol
and i wont use any of them but the mx-1.. the extras are for some unforseen need.. like maybe we have a huge war and most things are destroyed and people need thermal paste to run the few surviving computers to come back from cataclyism..lol.. other than that they'll likely end up in the grabage.. it's cheap as hell anyway.. dont not buy the 5 dollar tube of the best paste just because you have something good already.. you said you want the best. well, this is the best ..lol..


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## Namslas90 (Apr 25, 2007)

D007 said:


> im pretty sure it's their new compound.. i have some now and it's very nice.. sk-1 i think did a report on it here in the forums..
> 
> ps.. one more thing.. do yourself a favor if you want to be king bad ass..lol.. buy yourself about 3-4 hd's.. high end fast hd's (raptors).. and we can show you how to link them up in raid later.. it will help your downloading installing and so forth speeds dramatically.



Western Digital Raptors 74GB or 150 GB (2 ea and must be Identical).  Three ways to do it; Speed, Accuracy or BOTH.  For both need to add a single drive(normal) as big as both Raid drives, IE, 74+74= 150gb,  150+150=300GB.


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## D007 (Apr 25, 2007)

yea i should of clarified sorry. they need to be the same hd's to raid them.. all the same.. thanks Nam 

i know this sounds complicated.. and it is..lol.. nothing good comes easy my friend..lol.. once your done though it's a great sense of accomplishment to know you no longer have to call tech support.. you start to realise just how incompetent most of them are actually lol.. and once you know it.. then you know it and it's not hard anymore..lol.. don't worry and just take it one small step at a time.. we're here to help ya out so no worries.. just remember one thing.. if you get to pissed off, back off and relax a second.. do not push pull and tug on your 400 dollar mobo or your 800 dollar processor lol.. these things are fragile so be careful 
( not to careful , some things do take a little elbow grease).. just relax and step by step.. alls well..
if you even need serious support later, alot of us are more than willing to talk to you in msn chat or even on the phone.. so don't stress..lol..


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## petepete (Apr 25, 2007)

worst time to build a computer,,, ever.... AMD/ATI haven't even released Barcelona and r600 and you are thinking intel and nvidia is the way to go... AMD still hasn't released anything to compete against Intel CPU's and Nvidia GPU's.. Good luck to you anyways


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## dstaiti (Apr 25, 2007)

I appreciate all the help/support... makes me wonder why I ever bought a retail PC to begin with!!!

If you guys are available on chat or the phone, why not do some consulting and make some $$$???  I'd pay for one of you guys if you are local!!!  I'm in Central MA... just in case!!!


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## GJSNeptune (Apr 25, 2007)

petepete said:


> worst time to build a computer,,, ever.... AMD/ATI haven't even released Barcelona and r600 and you are thinking intel and nvidia is the way to go... AMD still hasn't released anything to compete against Intel CPU's and Nvidia GPU's.. Good luck to you anyways



Valid points, but even newly released technology will have its initial kinks. If he builds now, he'll have a rock solid machine and no worries.


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## D007 (Apr 25, 2007)

lol nah.. most of us i like to think do this because we like to be part of the solution.. people have enough problems lol.. like paying insane repair bills..    about this being the worst time to build a pc.. it's always the "worst time" to build a pc lol.. honestly i dont see amd out do intel to often so i don't see it happeneing. especially with the quad core.. and the geforce 8800 gtx is so insane it doesnt matter what comes out.. it will still kick the dust off the moon from here.. whos to say the new cards will even be better? the rpice tag i saw on one of them is like 499 for the new ati cards and it only barely beats a gts 8800.. which is half that in cost..


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## GJSNeptune (Apr 25, 2007)

Heh, plus the R600 is like seven feet long!


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## Namslas90 (Apr 25, 2007)

D007 said:


> lol nah.. most of us i like to think do this because we like to be part of the solution.. people have enough problems lol.. like paying insane repair bills..    about this being the worst time to build a pc.. it's always the "worst time" to build a pc lol.. honestly i dont see amd out do intel to often so i don't see it happeneing. especially with the quad core.. and the geforce 8800 gtx is so insane it doesnt matter what comes out.. it will still kick the dust off the moon from here.. whos to say the new cards will even be better? the rpice tag i saw on one of them is like 499 for the new ati cards and it only barely beats a gts 8800.. which is half that in cost..



I'll second that!!


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## D007 (Apr 25, 2007)

ps look at the specs once your done figuring out what you'll get.. then add them all up for price.. now triple that.. thats how much you'd of payed at a builder for this pc..lol.. i wish i was kidding but im so not.. mine would of costed me about 4 grand.. instead it costed me about 1400-1500ish.. we can all be high rollers like u unfortunately lol.. but we don't hate on ya for it   your gonna love this thing man. you have no idea..lol..


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## dstaiti (Apr 25, 2007)

I'm not trying to be a braggert about it... if I didn't care at all about the money, I'd just go order Dell's best XPS system and be done with it!  I'm really excited about building it myself and the learning experience, and I am enormously appreciative to all of you for your help!!!


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## GJSNeptune (Apr 25, 2007)

Gah! Prebuilts are no fun at all!

It's really nice to know exactly what's inside your case, as well as knowing you put it all together.


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## FujiwaraTakumi (Apr 25, 2007)

D007 said:


> idk mx1 just came out and artic 5 has been out a while.. personally if you want the best id wait and order the mx-1.. it will drop your temps about 4-5 more c than artic silver 5 after the set in time.. and thats very signifigant with performance and stability.
> i have like 3 tubes of paste here lol
> and i wont use any of them but the mx-1.. the extras are for some unforseen need.. like maybe we have a huge war and most things are destroyed and people need thermal paste to run the few surviving computers to come back from cataclyism..lol.. other than that they'll likely end up in the grabage.. it's cheap as hell anyway.. dont not buy the 5 dollar tube of the best paste just because you have something good already.. you said you want the best. well, this is the best ..lol..



MX-1 is made by Arctic Cooling. AS5 is made by Arctic Silver. Not only does MX-1 have lower temps than AS5, but it claims that it will evaporate, like AS5 does. MX-1 doesn't need to be reapplied for another 8 years after the first, where as AS5 usually needs to be reapplied every 6 months or so.


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## i_am_mustang_man (Apr 25, 2007)

FujiwaraTakumi said:


> MX-1 doesn't need to be reapplied for another 8 years after the first, where as AS5 usually needs to be reapplied every 6 months or so.


what?? i don't think as-5 needs that.... whatever


mx-1 is a good recommendation, but i don't know about 4-5c, maybe 2-3c, which is def worth it too
i would get the 320gb drive over the 250gb for the new recording tech which is never slower, and sometimes faster

the antec ninehundred is a fantastic case, just the right size. cases that are too big can get pockets of immobility, and that is not as conducive to convection as the entire case feeling a strong breeze. 

these are of course my opinions, but they are based on experience.


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## dstaiti (Apr 25, 2007)

You guys lost me at the Mx-1 and Ice-9 stuff...  

I know that things are gels or compounds to distribute heat, but I have NO idea how they are applied, where they are applied, etc.

Any intstructions on this on the site?


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## GJSNeptune (Apr 25, 2007)

These compounds go between your heatsink and CPU. They help disperse and more evenly distribute the heat generated by the CPU into the heatsink. They're supposed to be of utmost conductivity.

The goal is to spread evenly a very small amount, very thin, to fill in all microscopic gaps.


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## D007 (Apr 25, 2007)

it is applied to your processor or other things.  it fills in the gaps to make a smoothe connection.. a typical heatsink to prosessor hook up goes like this..

{---}  = Heatsink fan / or cooler unit    etc..
 ___    = Thermal paste

[___]   = Processor..

see those layers.. it works like that.. sorry it looks sucky lol.. but the heatsink or watercooler or thermal cooler or whatever cooler you decide to use is on top.. the thermal paste is on the bottom of that, it fills in any gaps to make the most out of contact with your cooler. then the processor is under that paste.. so from the motherboard it works like this... attach processsor to motherboard.. put thermal paste on processor.. put cooler on prosessor after thermal paste..

here is a link to applying thermal paste.. this should help you understand it.. it's really very simple.. 

http://www.devhardware.com/c/a/Hardware-Guides/Applying-Thermal-Paste/


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## Namslas90 (Apr 26, 2007)

dstaiti said:


> You guys lost me at the Mx-1 and Ice-9 stuff...
> 
> I know that things are gels or compounds to distribute heat, but I have NO idea how they are applied, where they are applied, etc.
> 
> Any intstructions on this on the site?



Try this, good for starters on Basic PC stuff;
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=15268
Thermal paste is easy, just a bb sized dab in the center of CPU and press on the heatsink.  You can always pull the heatsink off and check for the spread.  Some people use an old credit card to spread it.


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## i_am_mustang_man (Apr 26, 2007)

i like the dab, press, check, repress method. never given me bad temps


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## dstaiti (Apr 27, 2007)

*Final Build Help*

Ok... thanks again to everyone on their input... how does this build look?

EVGA 122-CK-NF68-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188013
$239

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz 2 x 4MB L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor - Retail 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017
$547

Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148069
$269

Thermaltake SHARK VA7000BWA Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133143
$169

EVGA 768-P2-N831-AR GeForce 8800GTX 768MB 384-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card - Retail 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130072
$529

Thermaltake toughpower W0117RU ATX12V / EPS12V 750W Power Supply 100 - 240 V CE, CB, TUV, FCC, UL, CUL, and BSMI certified - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153036
$189

Microsoft Windows XP Professional with SP2 - Retail 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16837116195
$279

Total is $2221... price doesn't include my peripherals... if anybody can suggest a good monitor, let me know.

I WANT TO PLACE MY ORDER TODAY AND EXPEDITE THE SHIPPING SO I CAN GET WORKING ON THIS BEAST TODAY!!!


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## Ketxxx (Apr 27, 2007)

Watch for the 680i chipsets, particularly the evga boards, they are known for literally frying memory. Instead you may want to go with a Abit AW9D MAX. If you got the cash to splash then the rest of the system looks fine, but even then I really couldnt justify the price for the quad CPU, applications are only just starting to be optimised for dual core, by the time quad is adopted properly the CPU will be outdated anyway.


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## Flamingsupernova (May 28, 2007)

dstaiti said:


> Why Intel vs. AMD?  I hear that the AMD chips are easier to overclock and are generally faster for gaming purposes?  Either way, I can spend $300+ on the CPU alone, so what are my best options with either AMD or Intel in that range?  Secondly, what are my motherboard concerns with either?
> 
> Can you explain SLI?  Is that running 2 GPUs at the same time?  Will I really need that with a TOL 8800 GTX???
> 
> Are you in Boston by the way?  I live in the area too... I'd hire you as a consultant so I don't screw this build up!!!



AMD isn't easier to overclock, not with the new Core 2 Duo's from Intel, and no, not any faster either. They are far better for gaming


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## GJSNeptune (May 28, 2007)

The AMD = Gaming, Intel = Multimedia distinction is no longer true. Both chips will perform wonderfully for either situation, or for both where applicable.

Years ago, yes, AMD was better for gaming and Intel was better for multimedia content, editing, multitasking, etc. It's no longer the case, much like PC vs. Mac. Macs are just as personal as a "PC" nowadays.


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