# Radeon HD 5970 Gets Listed



## btarunr (Nov 12, 2009)

Some of the first online store listings of AMD's newest high-end graphics accelerator, the ATI Radeon HD 5970, have started to surface. Austrian computer hardware online store aggregator Geizhals.at has sources out three such stores which list the accelerator by AIB partner Sapphire, between € 505.39 and € 514.46, including 20% applicable tax (excluding which, it is priced between € 421 and € 428). The Sapphire HD 5970 accelerator listed carries the part number 21165-01-50R. It features a total of 2 GB of memory (2x 1GB), contrary to an earlier report. A short list of stores can be found here.





*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## cool_recep (Nov 12, 2009)

Chip frequency: 2x 725MHz
 Memory frequency: 2x 1000MHz 
• Chip: Hemlock 
• Memory Interface: 2x 256-bit 
• Stream-Processors: 2x 1600 • 
Texture units: 2x 80 • 
Fab process: 40nm • 
Maximum consumption : no idea 
• DirectX: 11 • 
Shader Model: 5 
• Size: Dual-Slot • 
Features: 7.1 HD Audio controller, CrossFireX support.


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## adrianx (Nov 12, 2009)

run nvidia ....run for your life 

a killer card


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## FreedomEclipse (Nov 12, 2009)

I suppose the price isnt too bad - its around £386 most 4870X2's are around £250-360


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## Sasqui (Nov 12, 2009)

FreedomEclipse said:


> I suppose the price isnt too bad - its around £386 most 4870X2's are around £250-360



They've been killing NVidia on that front.  A normal 5870 costs $400, where a 295 is $600.  Performance difference is about 10% (if that).

Hopefully, the availability picks up!


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## pantherx12 (Nov 12, 2009)

Over kill is over kill!


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## Aceman.au (Nov 12, 2009)

Nvidia day on reckoning is coming soon!!! Muwahahahaahahhahahahhaa and so on


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## mechtech (Nov 12, 2009)

Hmmm  well up here in Canada a 5870 is about $430.00 so two of them would be about 860.00 bucks

So a 5970 will be about??????


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## Sasqui (Nov 12, 2009)

mechtech said:


> Hmmm  well up here in Canada a 5870 is about $430.00 so two of them would be about 860.00 bucks
> 
> So a 5970 will be about??????



420 Euro is about $620 USD (the suggested price w/out tax).


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## AsRock (Nov 12, 2009)

Sasqui said:


> 420 Euro is about $620 USD (the suggested price w/out tax).



Near enough a new system huh.


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## Benetanegia (Nov 12, 2009)

Sasqui said:


> They've been killing NVidia on that front.  A normal 5870 costs $400, where a 295 is $600.  Performance difference is about 10% (if that).
> 
> Hopefully, the availability picks up!



Why do you feel the need to lie in order to enforce/exaggerate a point that is true in ultimate instances? GTX295 is and has always been $500 and is 15% faster according to Wizzard's review. Apart from that your point is on spot, but it's not as clear cut as you were trying to put it. Sincerely, I don't understand these actitudes. :shadedshu


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## pr0n Inspector (Nov 12, 2009)

Like the 5800s, the stock will last for about ten minutes, after that it's weeks of back order.


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## Sasqui (Nov 12, 2009)

Benetanegia said:


> Why do you feel the need to lie in order to enforce/exaggerate a point that is true in ultimate instances? GTX295 is and has always been $500 and is 15% faster according to Wizzard's review. Apart from that your point is on spot, but it's not as clear cut as you were trying to put it. Sincerely, I don't understand these actitudes. :shadedshu



Yea, mia culpa... I recall seeing a price of $600 the other day, but searching around, I see prices hovering around $500.   And you are right about the 15% performance.  So forgive me 

Still, with low power draw and the 295 being 25% more in cost, I'd choose the 5870


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## inferKNOX (Nov 12, 2009)

Sasqui said:


> Yea, mia culpa... I recall seeing a price of $600 the other day, but searching around, I see prices hovering around $500.   And you are right about the 15% performance.  *So forgive me*
> 
> Still, with low power draw and the 295 being 25% more in cost, I'd choose the 5870


For goodness sake, save the kittens; DFTT!


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## mdm-adph (Nov 12, 2009)

Sasqui said:


> 420 Euro is about $620 USD (the suggested price w/out tax).



Wasn't there a time when ATI said they weren't going to release any cards above $500 ever again?


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## wolf (Nov 12, 2009)

Come on benchmarks... it's shaping up to be a touch better than dual 5850's which aren't nearly as inspiring as they should be.....yet?

come on Catalyst 9.12 and shut me up already, I don't like being pessimistic, but 5850's don't seem much faster than 4890's.

The next 3-6 months should be a really interesting time for graphics cards, come on competition.


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## Sasqui (Nov 12, 2009)

mdm-adph said:


> Wasn't there a time when ATI said they weren't going to release any cards above $500 ever again?



Never say never   Hell, with a single chip card going for $400+, sure would be nice to see the dual version only $100 more.  I think the game has changed... yet again.  

Though only benches will tell if it's worth it.


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## 3volvedcombat (Nov 12, 2009)

mdm-adph said:


> Wasn't there a time when ATI said they weren't going to release any cards above $500 ever again?



Well in this case there ahead in the performance lead with there single card solution with 2400 stream processors by 50+ % over a gtx 295 and it supports techs that not nvidia or any other people(big company's) are offering right now. If you got this card you are ganna be set on a long road of bragging and crazy performance in games.


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## OneCool (Nov 12, 2009)

> Maximum consumption : no idea



Hover Dam comes to mind


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## Binge (Nov 12, 2009)

Terrible card, worse price.


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## imperialreign (Nov 12, 2009)

mdm-adph said:


> Wasn't there a time when ATI said they weren't going to release any cards above $500 ever again?




Yep, and ATI have gone to great lengths to uphold that statement - IIRC, when the 4870x2 was released, it came into the market right at $499 USD (prices were higher in EUR, though, IIRC).

I'm fairly certain the 5970 will enter the US market at that *same exact* price point . . . and you'll see the 4000 series drop in price (although, don't expect the 4870x2 to fall below $300-$350 just yet).

ATI adjust their prices as the hardware is released - the new upper end cards "displace" the lowers and older series both in price and performance.

You'll even see some of their direct sellers (i.e. VisionTek) list the card at $499 - but what they can't control, though, are the retailers throwing in some kind of markup . . . AMD/ATI have no control whatsoever over retailer gouging.  Certain retailers can afford to seel the card at the MSRP (i.e. newegg), but not all of them can do so . . .

Like always, before you purchase, do your research, and compare prices from one retailer to the next.


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## kid41212003 (Nov 12, 2009)

^ Agreed.

Facts: HD5850 >= $299, and HD5870 >= $399

Retailers can jack up the prices depend on the market situations.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Nov 12, 2009)

mdm-adph said:


> Wasn't there a time when ATI said they weren't going to release any cards above $500 ever again?



I don't believe so, the 4870x2's were over $500 and I believe so were the 3870x2s (that one I could be wrong on though). Either way, think of this as 2 cards for over $500, not one, if you want one, get a 5870 or 5850.


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## mdm-adph (Nov 12, 2009)

1Kurgan1 said:


> I don't believe so, the 4870x2's were over $500 and I believe so were the 3870x2s (that one I could be wrong on though). Either way, think of this as 2 cards for over $500, not one, if you want one, get a 5870 or 5850.



Well, like imperialreign said, the 4870x2 came out right at $499.  I remember that, too.

Just wondering if they'll keep to their word!


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## AltecV1 (Nov 12, 2009)

i will trump you all 5870 costs in my country $650 and the 5850 $350


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## WarEagleAU (Nov 12, 2009)

well with a kick ass new card and much hype and reviews to prove it,they are trying their luck with Nvidia still a couple months out from the Gt300 (which looks to be killer itself). When that is released, I suspect prices will retract, and then we will all be happy with huge boners!


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## 1Kurgan1 (Nov 12, 2009)

mdm-adph said:


> Well, like imperialreign said, the 4870x2 came out right at $499.  I remember that, too.
> 
> Just wondering if they'll keep to their word!



Some 4870x2's came out at $499, but depending on the week, sometimes none were under $500, I personally bought mine for $515, and it  was the lowest I could find that week. If they keep it around $400 for top end single GPU cards they are doing fine, dual GPU cards, especially top of the line ones are always going to be 2x or even 2.5x the price of the single GPU version (2.5x maybe just because 1 slot, some people dont have room for a full size mobo and need 2 gpu's in one slot).


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## trickson (Nov 12, 2009)

adrianx said:


> run nvidia ....run for your life
> 
> a killer card



LOL I would never buy another ATI card as long as I live ! 

Nothing but trouble IMHO .


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## erocker (Nov 12, 2009)

trickson said:


> LOL I would never buy another ATI card as long as I live !
> 
> Nothing but trouble IMHO .



Ha! I'm just the opposite. To each their own, though I have no idea what your post has to do with the topic of this thread.


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## inferKNOX (Nov 12, 2009)

Binge said:


> Terrible card, worse price.





trickson said:


> LOL I would never buy another ATI card as long as I live !
> 
> Nothing but trouble IMHO .








Why would you say that?


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## AltecV1 (Nov 12, 2009)

inferKNOX said:


> http://i33.tinypic.com/6ofswk.jpg
> Why would you say that?



because he is a fanboy(broblably)


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## imperialreign (Nov 12, 2009)

1Kurgan1 said:


> Some 4870x2's came out at $499, but depending on the week, sometimes none were under $500, I personally bought mine for $515, and it  was the lowest I could find that week. If they keep it around $400 for top end single GPU cards they are doing fine, dual GPU cards, especially top of the line ones are always going to be 2x or even 2.5x the price of the single GPU version (2.5x maybe just because 1 slot, some people dont have room for a full size mobo and need 2 gpu's in one slot).




I won't dispute that some 4870x2s were above the $500 mark - but those were retailer set prices . . . retailers were trying to cash-in with a little mark-up as well.  Especially if the prices are changing week to week, that's at the retailer end, not the MSRP.

MSRP is simply that, a suggestion - a manufacturer can't force a retailer to sell their goods at, lower or above those prices.  Granted, the retailer is already paying less than the MSRP for the goods, but if they want to mark the price up above the MSRP, the retailer takes that chance that they might not sell as many products as their competitor.

Regarding the US market - we're lucky to have newegg.  They've become so friggin huge that they can usually sell goods below the MSRP, and it beats the pulp out of other online retailers.


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## trickson (Nov 12, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> because he is a fanboy(broblably)



No just my honest opinion is all .


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## inferKNOX (Nov 12, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> because he is a fanboy(broblably)


Binge no doubt, but I don't think trickson.


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## trickson (Nov 12, 2009)

inferKNOX said:


> Binge no doubt, but I don't think trickson.



thank you . No no fanboy here just some one that has been burned ( literally ) from ATI . I would love to have the DX11 card and all the goods ATI offer but man nothing but trouble IMHO .


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## 1Kurgan1 (Nov 12, 2009)

imperialreign said:


> I won't dispute that some 4870x2s were above the $500 mark - but those were retailer set prices . . . retailers were trying to cash-in with a little mark-up as well.  Especially if the prices are changing week to week, that's at the retailer end, not the MSRP.
> 
> MSRP is simply that, a suggestion - a manufacturer can't force a retailer to sell their goods at, lower or above those prices.  Granted, the retailer is already paying less than the MSRP for the goods, but if they want to mark the price up above the MSRP, the retailer takes that chance that they might not sell as many products as their competitor.
> 
> Regarding the US market - we're lucky to have newegg.  They've become so friggin huge that they can usually sell goods below the MSRP, and it beats the pulp out of other online retailers.



MSRP don't really matter to me, it's end cost out of my wallet. I bought my card in late October and they were released in Mid August, so it was a full 2 months after release and it was still over $500, and that was from ZZP, at that time I bought from there because even Newegg prices were higher than that.

Either way, to expect a dual GPU card with 2 of the best GPU's on the market to come in under $500, it just isnt going to happen. The 5870 is $360 and the 5850 is $260, this lies between those in performance, so we'll say $300 if this was a single GPU variant. That would mean retail should be around $600 - $650. And if a full clocked 5970 lands I would expect that to be $700 - $750. 

I just assume when they said cards under $500, that they meant single GPU cards, to have top end come in dual GPU and be under $500 off the bat is impossible, they arent going to take a loss like that.


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## mdm-adph (Nov 12, 2009)

erocker said:


> Ha! I'm just the opposite. To each their own, though I have no idea what your post has to do with the topic of this thread.



Could be astroturfing.  Usually when the posts seem completely out of left field, that's what it is.


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 12, 2009)

Sasqui said:


> They've been killing NVidia on that front.  A normal 5870 costs $400, where a 295 is $600.  Performance difference is about 10% (if that).
> 
> Hopefully, the availability picks up!



Yup and I remember when the 8800GTX/8800 Ultra costed as much as the 295 does today.


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## trickson (Nov 12, 2009)

What I want to see is some real I MEAN real cooling coming from ATI . There cards rock ! But when they over heat ( Like they always have done to me ) they tend to take a huge hit in performance .


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## erocker (Nov 12, 2009)

trickson said:


> LOL I would never buy another ATI card as long as I live !
> 
> Nothing but trouble IMHO .





trickson said:


> thank you . No no fanboy here just some one that has been burned ( literally ) from ATI . I would love to have the DX11 card and all the goods ATI offer but man nothing but trouble IMHO .





trickson said:


> What I want to see is some real I MEAN real cooling coming from ATI . There cards rock ! But when they over heat ( Like they always have done to me ) they tend to take a huge hit in performance .





It sucks being in the minortity with such things. I think we understand by now, ATi is nothing but trouble in your opinion. Thanks for sharing this very important information. I think you should just use Nvidia.


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 12, 2009)

trickson said:


> What I want to see is some real I MEAN real cooling coming from ATI . There cards rock ! But when they over heat ( Like they always have done to me ) they tend to take a huge hit in performance .



Never have had problems with ATI cards having heat troubles, nor have the gamers I play with and many are using the 4870X2. Perhaps you don't have proper airflow going through your case?


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## ~The_Dude~ (Nov 12, 2009)

I am a bit surprised by the length of that thing. How long is it exactly?

Something that long may require a lot of users to upgrade their cases just to fit one or two.

~


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 12, 2009)

~ 10" I don't need to upgrade, my case fits it just fine and its from 2001/2002.


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## mk_ln (Nov 12, 2009)

eidairaman1 said:


> ~ 10" I don't need to upgrade, my case fits it just fine and its from 2001/2002.



isn't the length actually closer to 11"? i mean, the HD5870 is already 11" isn't it?


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 12, 2009)

ya my bad, i was thinking the 5870. Probably around the same size.


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## Binge (Nov 12, 2009)

inferKNOX said:


> http://i33.tinypic.com/6ofswk.jpg
> Why would you say that?



Don't quote lump me with that other guy.  I have valid reasons to say what I am saying.  The card runs slower than 2x 5870s, and the price listed in the topic of this thread is atrocious for the perf.  

This card is close to 13" long by the way.


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 12, 2009)

what do you think, you have to remember, you are running the card off a Single PCI E Bus vs 2 cards in tandem, now if you want a major jump try 2 5970s.


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## imperialreign (Nov 12, 2009)

Binge said:


> Don't quote lump me with that other guy.  I have valid reasons to say what I am saying.  The card runs slower than 2x 5870s, and the price listed in the topic of this thread is atrocious for the perf.
> 
> This card is close to 13" long by the way.



slower?  comparatively?  and by how much?  were these preliminary benches done with "beta" drivers?  what game or benchmark was used for testing?

I assume so, considering full driver support for these cards hasn't even been hinted at by ATI, yet - the cards aren't to market, either . . . whereas the 5870s are on the shelf, there's official drivers for them available . . .

If you ask me, I don't see how one could state the above reason as being "valid" as the card's *performance* has yet to be *officially* verified.




trickson said:


> What I want to see is some real I MEAN real cooling coming from ATI . There cards rock ! But when they over heat ( Like they always have done to me ) they tend to take a huge hit in performance .



Now, I'll admit that ATI's earlier cards have run quite warm in the past . . . even compared to nVidia's most of the time . . . hell, the HD3870s were notorious for running right around 100C . . .

But, from my experience with two HD4870s, and two 4870x2s, they've run cool.  I've yet to see any of these cards break 80C under full load . . . even idle stays right around 55C.  They're some of the coolest running ATI cards I've ever owned . . .

And considering the new R800 GPUs are based off the RV700s . . . I'd expect the same level of thermal operation . . .



1Kurgan1 said:


> MSRP don't really matter to me, it's end cost out of my wallet. I bought my card in late October and they were released in Mid August, so it was a full 2 months after release and it was still over $500, and that was from ZZP, at that time I bought from there because even Newegg prices were higher than that.
> 
> Either way, to expect a dual GPU card with 2 of the best GPU's on the market to come in under $500, it just isnt going to happen. The 5870 is $360 and the 5850 is $260, this lies between those in performance, so we'll say $300 if this was a single GPU variant. That would mean retail should be around $600 - $650. And if a full clocked 5970 lands I would expect that to be $700 - $750.
> 
> I just assume when they said cards under $500, that they meant single GPU cards, to have top end come in dual GPU and be under $500 off the bat is impossible, they arent going to take a loss like that.



I can see that point . . . all I'm trying to state is that we can't blame ATI if the cards are being sold over $500.

I'd bet damn good money that we'll see the same price tiering as when the 4870x2 was released.  The x2s will enter at $499, and the rest of the series will be bumped down at least $30-$90 (depending on the model).

The way I figure, ATI know $500 is right about the most that the average general enthusiast is willing to spend on a GPU (meaning someone that wants upper-end but might not be fully up-and-up on the tech scene) . . . pricing in that bracket is golden for them, and they've proven this with the last two series (both the HD4000s and the HD3000s).  nVidia love the $500+ bracket, and even when their upper-end cards are only ~15% faster, the average joe isn't going to be willing to dump another $150-$300 with a semi-marginal increase in performance  (note: for all out there, I say semi-marginal as the performance gain varies between both cards and games . . . we all know that some games favor one hardware type over another).  Along with the $500 arena, you get those that if they're looking at nVidia's upper-end GPUs - if you're going to spend $700+ for a card, you could throw in another $200-$300 and have two dual-GPU cards that can easily handle anything you throw at them . . .

The pricing game is a big deal when it comes to video hardware sales . . . and, sadly, the first to market with each new series gets to "name the game" so-to-speak.


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## Binge (Nov 13, 2009)

imperialreign said:


> slower?  comparatively?  and by how much?  were these preliminary benches done with "beta" drivers?  what game or benchmark was used for testing?
> 
> I assume so, considering full driver support for these cards hasn't even been hinted at by ATI, yet - the cards aren't to market, either . . . whereas the 5870s are on the shelf, there's official drivers for them available . . .
> 
> If you ask me, I don't see how one could state the above reason as being "valid" as the card's *performance* has yet to be *officially* verified.



I'm guessing 13-25% below 5870s in crossfire only because of Wolf's tests in underclocking his 5870 down to the rated specs of the dual card.  I am making an estimate and a statement based on opinion based on experience as well as some independant testing done by others.  The 4870x2 performed about 10% less than 4870s in CF at the same OC.  I have to admit that from what I've heard the 4870 drivers were more mature in their time than the 5870 drivers have been since release.  If you want to assume that I made my judgement based off of ES cards, and pre-release drivers than you can pick up a pitchfork and torch with the rest of the fanboy hunters.  

A small prayer for my life.  Oh lord, protect me from the wrath of the ignorants who claim the worst of me.

Despite all the slander I still think this is going to do worse than 2x 5870s in CF, and I think the price mentioned by the OP is still ridiculous.


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## Kantastic (Nov 13, 2009)

Binge said:


> Despite all the slander *I still **think* this is going to do worse than 2x 5870s in CF, and *I think* the price mentioned by the OP is still ridiculous.



Everybody is entitled to their own *opinion(s)*.

Lets stop there. :shadedshu


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## Binge (Nov 13, 2009)

Kantastic said:


> Everybody is entitled to their own *opinion(s)*.
> 
> Lets stop there. :shadedshu



Thank you knight in shining armor!


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## Marineborn (Nov 13, 2009)

Im sorry i have to say this, i will not bite my tongue and i am a fanboy!! I AM DAMMIT! i loves my ati, but if nvidia released a card that was resonable and fast i would buy it over ati, its all about the money, Now this thing that is bothering me, is oh wow the gtx295 is 15% faster then the 5870 with a whole NOTHER GPU!!!!!. lol seriosly, DUH! mind boggling. AND im buying this card when it comes out, i dont have no sissy case. lol i can fit this beast and power it. SO bring the pain on! and i cant wait to see this things benchmarks to woop some ass.


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## dr emulator (madmax) (Nov 13, 2009)

i just hope it's not another 9800gtx gets hot and goes bang card:shadedshu


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## wolf (Nov 13, 2009)

Thanks Binge, And I gotta say I agree with you, not greatest card at all, and horrible price (from this source)

Also I own a 5870, and it is my best card right now, and as Binge stated I have done extensive core/memory clock testing, and I find what this card (5970) is on paper to be 'Lackluster', at least compared to what two full fledged 5870's on one board could do (in terms of stock clocks) and in my opinion a single 5870 is a little lackluster too.

Now there is the possibility ATi are doing this so that they have more up their sleeve to combat a Fermi card when it lands, but in my opinion they would already be right on the thermal threshold, and the power threshold for this card, and its already about 13" long, I think they have wedged themselves into a pretty tight spot here. Something faster would likely need to sport beefyer power connectors and beefyer cooling.


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## Marineborn (Nov 13, 2009)

Man fermi is a gay name. LOL!!!

and how can you find the performace lackluster am i missing something here? whatever i dont understand, its like buying a ferrari over your pinto and being like yeah...i excpected better... WTF MATE


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## Binge (Nov 13, 2009)

Marineborn said:


> Man fermi is a gay name. LOL!!!
> 
> and how can you find the performace lackluster am i missing something here? whatever i dont understand, its like buying a ferrari over your pinto and being like yeah...i excpected better... WTF MATE



Why are you flaming?  He freaking owns the 5870, and a bunch of what he did was to test for himself what happened when you changed the clocks etc etc.  After testing he formed some opinions of the card based on what's out on the market right now.  I can tell you Wolf loves his GPUs and it doesn't matter to him whether they come in single or dual GPU flavors.  It would behoove you to inspect the results of 5870 tri and quadfire tests as they are atrocious.


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## wolf (Nov 13, 2009)

My opinion is formed having used and owned and overclocked (in the last 18 months);

8800GTX, 9800GTX, HD4870 Crossfire, GTX260 c216, GTX280, GTX295, GTX260 c216 1792mb SLi, and now a HD5870.

So when I say I think it's lackluster, yes it's my opinion but I'm hardly coming from a pinto, to a Ferrari, and the only reason I haven't bought a second 5870 is because I don't like how they scale (according to reviews), maybe they'll help this with drivers? I don't know.

So yeah, I kind of expected better, now to hear this card is clocked like 5850's I find lackluster, especially because in all of my experiences of Dual GPU solutions, you always have situations where you will fall back on single card performance, where this solution will be less than 20% faster overall than a 4890 overall.

and yeah I do love my GPU's Binge


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## Marineborn (Nov 13, 2009)

Binge said:


> Terrible card, worse price.



just kinda wanted to respond to that blatent statement right there with mine


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## a_ump (Nov 13, 2009)

yea i'm definitely feeling what some(binge, wolf) are posting here. I don't think the HD 5970 is going to be anything too exciting as its clocked just above the HD 5850's core clock and the same memory clock. It's performance we've already seen. Now what would have been awesome to see is the HD 5970 have a core clock of say 950 and memory at 1350. That woulda been sweet. 

I don't like it but it actually makes sense imo from a marketing point of view. The HD 5970 is probly going to fall between HD 5850 xfire and HD 5870 xfire performance wise so.... 5850xfire:~$615, 5870xfire:~$815. So i'd think it'd be fair to expect the HD 5970 to fall around $650-$700.


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## Marineborn (Nov 13, 2009)

thats why you water cool it, and crank the crap out of it lol


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## wolf (Nov 13, 2009)

Well here's hoping when it's released they drop the prices of the 5870/50, so they can make it $500, knock the 5870 down to say ~300-330 and a 5850 down to 200-230 - yes I pulled this from my ass 

Then theyre onto something, because if it performs like 5850 CF, and costs 600+ USD, then the GTX295 still works 'pretty much' exactly where it is.


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## [H]@RD5TUFF (Nov 13, 2009)

Sasqui said:


> They've been killing NVidia on that front.  A normal 5870 costs $400, where a 295 is $600.  Performance difference is about 10% (if that).
> 
> Hopefully, the availability picks up!



You seem to have little understanding about the price points, or are shopping at places with largely marked up prices! The 295 retails for about $500 ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130508 ) and the preformance difference is a fair bit more than 10 %, your looking at closer to 17-20 % , but to someone who like AMD I spose thats "about 10%" .  Also given AMD's track record on it's high end cards, they will continue to have supply problems, as their fab/ manufacture facility's are separate, it saved them money, and their buisiness, but it's hurting their ability to fabricate and deliver their hardware. Also eyefinity is a pricey impractical gimmic!


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## Bjorn_Of_Iceland (Nov 13, 2009)

wow thats a good price for the performance you will get! Compared to he GTX280's price when it was released.


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## Binge (Nov 13, 2009)

Bjorn_Of_Iceland said:


> wow thats a good price for the performance you will get! Compared to he GTX280's price when it was released.



How long did that last?  Times change and so does the economy.


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## Wile E (Nov 13, 2009)

I'm waiting to see what nV offers before I make any purchase decisions, so this announcement is of little consequence to me. But I can say this, the next card I buy must have solid GPGPU support, especially in video encoding.


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## inferKNOX (Nov 13, 2009)

Binge said:


> Despite all the slander *I still think this is going to do worse than 2x 5870s in CF*, and I think the *price mentioned by the OP is still ridiculous.*





wolf said:


> Also I own a 5870, and it is my best card right now, and as Binge stated I have done extensive core/memory clock testing, and I find what this card (5970) is on paper to be 'Lackluster', at least *compared to what two full fledged 5870's on one board could do* (in terms of stock clocks) and in my opinion a single 5870 is a little lackluster too.


You guys are stating the excruciatingly obvious!1!
Which dual card do you know that works better than 2 cards SLI'd or Crossfired? Is the GTX295 more powerful than 2 SLI'd GTX285's, or 3870x2 than 2x3870s, or 9800GX2 than 2x9800GTs, or 4870x2 than 2x4870s?

And on top of it, Binge, that "ridiculous" price is about the same than Xfired 5850s and is a single card, so is logically preferred and so expected to cost more than the 2 of them.
So what Binge, just another avenue of attack?


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## Bjorn_Of_Iceland (Nov 13, 2009)

Binge said:


> How long did that last?  Times change and so does the economy.


Yep. didnt last that long.. but considering this new card from ATi has no competition, and ATi knowing this "shortage" gossips circulating around the net, ATi can have a reason to pull off a high price (say 2x that of a 5870). But they still stuck to exact price


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## wolf (Nov 13, 2009)

inferKNOX said:


> You guys are stating the excruciatingly obvious!1!
> Which dual card do you know that works better than 2 cards SLI'd or Crossfired? Is the GTX295 more powerful than 2 SLI'd GTX285's, or 3870x2 than 2x3870s, or 9800GX2 than 2x9800GTs, or 4870x2 than 2x4870s?
> 
> And on top of it, Binge, that "ridiculous" price is about the same than Xfired 5850s and is a single card, so is logically preferred and so expected to cost more than the 2 of them.
> So what Binge, just another avenue of attack?



Not more powerful, but even is what we want dude, and as I remember it the 3870x2's GPU's were clocked 50mhz faster than a 3870, with memory a decent bit slower(but affecting performance less), the 4870X2 was clocked identically to a 48701gb, so I was expecting to not have to sacrifice 125mhz core and 200mhz memory on this card.

The 9800GX2 was clocked like a 8800/9800GT but had 16 more sp's, and the GTX295 like a 260 but with all 240 sp's, I guess ATi are taking a lesson from Nvidia's book and making their dual card not as fast as the top single card but carrying all the active core units.


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Nov 13, 2009)

Wile E said:


> I'm waiting to see what nV offers before I make any purchase decisions, so this announcement is of little consequence to me. But I can say this, the next card I buy must have solid GPGPU support, especially in video encoding.



For ur pronz?


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## Tivook (Nov 13, 2009)

First shipment incoming:

I talked to my major wholesale agent here in europe and he said that in about 10 days he is getting 5 samples of this card.

5. For a wholesale company.

That means that the biggest retailers are going to get 1-2 cards maximum if they squeeze everything out of the 3 wholesale companies in the country.

Tiv


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## inferKNOX (Nov 13, 2009)

wolf said:


> *Not more powerful, but even is what we want dude*, and as I remember it the 3870x2's GPU's were clocked 50mhz faster than a 3870, with memory a decent bit slower(but affecting performance less), the 4870X2 was clocked identically to a 48701gb, so I was expecting to not have to sacrifice 125mhz core and 200mhz memory on this card.
> 
> The 9800GX2 was clocked like a 8800/9800GT but had 16 more sp's, and the GTX295 like a 260 but with all 240 sp's, I guess ATi are taking a lesson from Nvidia's book and making their dual card not as fast as the top single card but carrying all the active core units.


Fair enough.
Though we have to settle with the fact that it's unlikely to happen for anyone (ATi, nV, Intel, etc). There will always be some sort of loss of efficiency in multicore systems vs the sum of efficiency of the singular cores, due to some of the processing power being lost to inter-communicatory overhead among other things.
It's all hearsay though for now, coz we don't know how it performs yet. Maybe it does match the Xfire 5870s for all we know.

From the companies' perspective, I think they want it to be a trade off, slightly more power from 2 cards, but more space, heat, noise, power draw, etc; or a single card that is slightly less powerful, but more convenient in the sense of taking slightly less power, & producing less noise, heat, space, etc.


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## imperialreign (Nov 13, 2009)

Binge said:


> I'm guessing 13-25% below 5870s in crossfire only because of Wolf's tests in underclocking his 5870 down to the rated specs of the dual card.  I am making an estimate and a statement based on opinion based on experience as well as some independant testing done by others.  The 4870x2 performed about 10% less than 4870s in CF at the same OC.  I have to admit that from what I've heard the 4870 drivers were more mature in their time than the 5870 drivers have been since release.  If you want to assume that I made my judgement based off of ES cards, and pre-release drivers than you can pick up a pitchfork and torch with the rest of the fanboy hunters.
> 
> A small prayer for my life.  Oh lord, protect me from the wrath of the ignorants who claim the worst of me.
> 
> Despite all the slander I still think this is going to do worse than 2x 5870s in CF, and I think the price mentioned by the OP is still ridiculous.




Sure, overall a 4870x2 runs _slightly_ slower than two 4870s . . . but it's fully depended upon the screen resolution, too (or have we forgotten that?) - a 4870x2 ran slightly faster than two 4870s at higher screen resolutions than at lower resolutions . . .

And let's take into account that one single 4870x2 had lower minimum FPS and less "mini-stuttering" (the effect of loading things into the VID memory) than two 4870s do.

And I'm fully willing to back up these claims with my own hardware . . . If need be, I'll bench just one of my 4870x2s against my two 4870s with all cards at stock clocks - then, if further need be, I'll go digging through the i-nets for the numerous benchmarks that have been performed that show the same results.

Simply downclocking one x870 to the same frequencies that the dual-GPU card uses is not an acurate measurement of a dual-GPUs performance.  That's just ridiculous.  The whole PCB architecture is completely different, let alone the small differences between the GPUs.

And, again, one cannot take someone's "preliminary" benches of a completely different beast and determine with any amount of accuracy how something else (that's not even available for testing yet) will run.

That'd be like saying that the new ZR1 Corvette is going to be slower than the new Camaro SS . . . even though they both have the same powerhouse of a motor.  There's differences between the two that make the _faster_ car the _faster_ car.


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## Binge (Nov 13, 2009)

My x-fire 4870 set had no micro-stuttering while the x2 did have stuttering.  I don't believe 4870x2 had better results than 2x 1gb 4870.  Here's a source to back up my personal experience.

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/crossfire_vs_sli/12.htm

You people are unbelievable. I can back up my opinions with fact and still it feels like I'm only met with harassment.  Bad card, bad price.  You don't just lump 5870gpus together and kill the clock by a few hundred MHz.  Are they trying to impress people with how much it can overclock by selling a horrendously underclocked card, or is the heat just that bad?  Remember these cards do throttle when they get hot enough.

Bad card, bad *price* sums up my feelings to the initial article written where e-tailers are asking for over 500 euros for the video card.  Here is the difference between the euro total and the USD total.  514.46 Euros = 764.950574 U.S. dollars.  Google is cool eh?  That's slightly more than 5850 crossfire.  Nice.  Has anyone noticed that I don't own a 5870 or a 5850?  One package almost got me to jump and that was the Vapor-X model.  I just keep reminding myself that I've had better, and the idea of buying it for even $50 less than the GTX295 seems absolutely bonkers.  It's not that the 295 is a NVIDIA card, but it's that my 295 clocked from 576MHz core clock, 1,242MHz shader clock, and 999MHz memory speed to 800/1710/1350 once watercooled.  Before that on air I used 2xGTX295s to achieve 41K in vantage, and the fps in games were just outrageous.  What am I supposed to say about the 5870 from my experience?  Am I'm going to be surprised or amazed and taken to a whole new level of the visual experience?



			
				imperialpain said:
			
		

> Simply downclocking one x870 to the same frequencies that the dual-GPU card uses is not an acurate measurement of a dual-GPUs performance. That's just ridiculous. The whole PCB architecture is completely different, let alone the small differences between the GPUs.
> 
> And, again, one cannot take someone's "preliminary" benches of a completely different beast and determine with any amount of accuracy how something else (that's not even available for testing yet) will run.



You're totally right, according to the last generation the x2 card will fail to the crossfire solution.  Wolf shouldn't have explored the different frequencies of his card to see if performance was like a 5850 or near 1/2 what we might see in the 5970.  I appologize for bringing it up?  You figure out something better.



			
				flamerKNOX said:
			
		

> You guys are stating the excruciatingly obvious!1!
> Which dual card do you know that works better than 2 cards SLI'd or Crossfired? Is the GTX295 more powerful than 2 SLI'd GTX285's, or 3870x2 than 2x3870s, or 9800GX2 than 2x9800GTs, or 4870x2 than 2x4870s?
> 
> And on top of it, Binge, that "ridiculous" price is about the same than Xfired 5850s and is a single card, so is logically preferred and so expected to cost more than the 2 of them.
> So what Binge, just another avenue of attack?



Uhh... I could show you personal benchmarks that show my 295 beating two gtx280s @1920x1080 at the same clock speeds (by one or two fps, still amazing card).  The 295 is 2x275s and not 2x285s.  I don't doubt three gtx280s or 285s can beat a 295 at any time, but that's only because 2x295s don't scale as well.  What does "just another avenue of attack," mean?  I said something simple.  You among others take it out of context, and look at what's happened.  My response was to the article based on what I gathered about the subject.  Fancy thing is other people agree.  Fancier thing is that I didn't come to the conclusion without at least trying to understand the 5970 GPU.  Unlike other people who may snear and scoff at company A or company B as a customer and enthusiast I'm only interested in what is truely innovative.  Do multi-gpu solutions seem innovative to me at tri-quad configurations? No.  Do multi-gpu solutions scale well at 3-4 gpus in crossfire.  No.  Will the 5970 scale well when in crossfire with another 5970.  I don't know, but from what I've seen in the past I doubt it would.  Is $750+ too much this year to spend on a GPU?  Well since I only paid $600 last year on gpus and it allowed me to try 2x4870s, 2x4870x2, 2xGTX280s, and then got a free (for the cost of shipping) GTX295 because of the step-up program.  I'd say it feels overpriced to me.  Anyone else want to try and aggressively and assertively shove their reason down my throat about pricing or how ATI's card is going to innovate my pants off?  I'll read it word for word and aknowledge your values as human beings, but are you going to work at it?  I mean are you really going to have some sort of information other than the benefit of doubt to convince me otherwise?  What was innovative about the 5870 besides the heat?  I've learned that the past and present are very important in even trying to anticipate the future.  I half expected such remarks about my initial post, but the arguing over things that are opinions supported by facts is what's really ridiculous.  Hell the price of this card reported in the OP is actually starting to seem perfectly fine in comparison to the reaction to my posts.

I love die-hard fanboys.   One time durring this world series I got hit over the head with a bottle because I complimented a move made by NY in game 4.  It really impressed me to no end how a player could steal second and third after the hitter's flyball was caught.  I just got to remove the bandage this week.


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## imperialreign (Nov 13, 2009)

Binge said:


> My x-fire 4870 set had no micro-stuttering while the x2 did have stuttering.  I don't believe 4870x2 had better results than 2x 1gb 4870.  Here's a source to back up my personal experience.
> 
> http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/crossfire_vs_sli/12.htm
> 
> ...



THe problem with such benchmarks as you've pointed to lie in the fact that they only show the _average_ FPS of certain configurations, and typically only the average MAX FPS - on top of that, linking to one specific game benchmark is not a good judge of hardware configurations across various games, either . . .

if you had taken the time to look through the rest of the games tested in _that_ specific benchmark comparison, you'd see that for about almost all other titles, the 4870x2 runs slightly faster than two 4870s paired up.

Honestly, when it comes to benchmarks, the biggest areas that we should be concerned with are not only the average FPS, but the average MIN FPS.

The micro-stuttering is most of the time system dependant.  Whereas you might've had more micro-stuttering with a 4870x2 instead of two 4870s . . . I can claim completely otherwise . . . even after adding a second 4870x2 into the mix.  As well - what kind of motherboard are you running?  If you're primary PCIE slot doesn't support the 2.0 standard, then yes, it'll bottleneck the living hell out of a 4870x2.

And back to pricing . . . *we cannot compare USD amounts to EURO amounts*.  These are two totally different markets with differing price structures, taxes, emargos, inflation amounts, alcohol, smog content, rad ppm, and various other variables between the two.  

USA != EUR

If such were the case, we'd have the same prices for our goods over here, that europeanoners pay across the pond.


And then to the issue of heat - sure, 90% of all newer hardware will throttle themself if temps get out of control.  But, heat is relative to each users individual case setup.  Just because your setup is borked and you can't keep a card from frying itself doesn't mean that such is a typical experience for other users.  It's actually quite unbelievable how quickly people place blame on a manufacturer's hardware when typically the issue lies in their setup.



> You're totally right, according to the last generation the x2 card will fail to the crossfire solution.  Wolf shouldn't have explored the different frequencies of his card to see if performance was like a 5850 or near 1/2 what we might see in the 5970.  I appologize for bringing it up?  You figure out something better.



Nice play on my user name - and very mature, I might add.  It fills me with such delight to see such childish behaviour, especially when the total debate is starting to swing away from a user's opinion.


You want a better comparision idea?  How about waiting until the hardware is released to the review sites for testing, instead of jumping to conclusions based on another user's unfounded testing with questionable methods.

At least, that is what would make sense, and be the logical thing to do, right?  

It amazes me how quickly others are willing to jump on what is essentially "heresay" and follow through with it.  It also amazes me that when ever someone starts stouting more logical and sensical information, said user is labeled as a fanboi - even though I shouldn't have to, anyone of the other regulars who've dealt with my posting over the last few years will be more than willing to tell you that a fanboi I am not . . . but, I guess when one is proven wrong and you have no other logical means to back yourself up, namecalling is the only logical retort, correct?

:shadedshu


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## kid41212003 (Nov 13, 2009)

Binge, your first post was mis-leading, or made people misunderstood, you should have said more facts than opinions from the start.


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## Kantastic (Nov 13, 2009)

[H]@RD5TUFF said:


> You seem to have little understanding about the price points, or are shopping at places with largely marked up prices! The 295 retails for about $500 ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130508 ) and the preformance difference is a fair bit more than 10 %, your looking at closer to 17-20 % , but to someone who like AMD I spose thats "about 10%" .  Also given AMD's track record on it's high end cards, they will continue to have supply problems, as their fab/ manufacture facility's are separate, it saved them money, and their buisiness, but it's hurting their ability to fabricate and deliver their hardware. Also eyefinity is a pricey impractical gimmic!



Did you make an account named after that terrible excuse for a forum just to slander AMD? I have to agree that AMD is having supply issues, but where's Fermi? The last I checked, Fermi was a sawed down version of an older card.


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## [H]@RD5TUFF (Nov 13, 2009)

Marineborn said:


> Im sorry i have to say this, i will not bite my tongue and i am a fanboy!! I AM DAMMIT! i loves my ati, but if nvidia released a card that was resonable and fast i would buy it over ati, its all about the money, Now this thing that is bothering me, is oh wow the gtx295 is 15% faster then the 5870 with a whole NOTHER GPU!!!!!. lol seriosly, DUH! mind boggling.



Of course it's going to be faster, it's a next gen card, and it has ZOMFG DX11, which is rather pointless, as the vast majority of games are still using DX9, let alone DX 10, and then your left with a card that supports a standard that's possibly 2 years from mass adoption, that's hardly a game changing feature! Then you run into eyefinity, that everyone is wetting their pants about, most of the people the cards are marketed to will buy the 5850, maybe 2, and won't have the 800 + dollars to fork out for for 3 monitors to make this gimmic work.


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## [H]@RD5TUFF (Nov 13, 2009)

Kantastic said:


> Did you make an account named after that terrible excuse for a forum just to slander AMD? I have to agree that AMD is having supply issues, but where's Fermi? The last I checked, Fermi was a sawed down version of an older card.



Slander AMD ? , sense when is stating the facts slander ? It's okay if you want to see it that way just to keep your reality from shattering, that's the road most people who like AMD choose. Second, I chose this name, because it's the name I use in several forums, and it's the name I fold under. LOL fermi's architecture is all speculation, stay for anyone who is actually working with it. The company I work for sells test handelers ( http://www.siliconfareast.com/testeqpt2.htm ) to has contracts with AMD, Intel, NVDIA, ect. and let me tell you that from my 20 + years of experience with this matter. A company does not have you build a machine to a whole new manufacturing standard for a  "sawed down" rebuild of a current architecture / fab process. But what do I know.


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## Kantastic (Nov 13, 2009)

[H]@RD5TUFF said:


> Slander AMD ? , sense when is stating the facts slander ? It's okay if you want to see it that way just to keep your reality from shattering, that's the road most people who like AMD choose. Second, I chose this name, because it's the name I use in several forums, and it's the name I fold under. *LOL fermi's architecture is all speculation, stay for anyone who is actually working with it. The company I work for sells test handelers ( http://www.siliconfareast.com/testeqpt2.htm ) to has contracts with AMD, Intel, NVDIA, ect. and let me tell you that from my 20 + years of experience with this matter. A company does not have you build a machine to a whole new manufacturing standard for a  "sawed down" rebuild of a current architecture / fab process.* But what do I know.



Yu obviesly dont now wat I referreng to, oh weel.

oh and. please no refer me being AMD fanboy i not. i buy best price/performen card i find not look @ company name but you may b different


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## Binge (Nov 13, 2009)

imperialreign said:


> bla bla... bl bla bla bla not a direct quote but lots of crap was cut out.  Summary:
> 
> Reviewers can't do their jobs, they're doing it WRONG.  I'd do it better.
> Absolutely baseless response on microstuttering.  Everyone should know that BiNGE has had i7 platforms since last november.  He started with a RIIE.  He's bottlenecking his equipment people.  He is noob.
> ...





Correct.  Despite all of what I wrote you're willing to cut the "fat" and pick at me for calling you imperialpain as a small ha ha.  It makes me feel better knowing that you are digging so deep to put complete crap on your plate of dung points.  You don't have to label yourself as a fanboy, but if you want to assume I was speaking to you directly.  Feel free.  People, like yourself (that's right you're included this time), have various interpretations of what's written, and it's my failure as a poster that I can not keep you from lumping yourself in with the rest of the trash.  



> And then to the issue of heat - sure, 90% of all newer hardware will throttle themself if temps get out of control.  But, heat is relative to each users individual case setup.


 Wrong and you have no proof to back-up this claim.  You took what I said out of context again, but whatever you're just reaching deep to demonize.

I find some people have a hard time conceptualizing and forming educated opinions especially when it's scary to estimate.  Even if I am wrong in my projection of 13-25% worse than 5870s in crossfire it says something that I've thought about it and shared the idea with the community.  It's not poison, I didn't bring up Fermi, and I stated my expectations based on GOOD REASON.  You can call it crap.  Hell I'm sure Wolf appreciates the sentiment.


Cheers Kid.  I should have expected as much from this community and kept the fist comment a little less terse.  Apparently being an adult is reserved for staff members.  Anyone with an opinion or sense of humor is labelled a child.   I gotta add it makes it harder to buy a product when a few sharp tongued people make its discussion a bad memory.


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## imperialreign (Nov 13, 2009)

Binge said:


> Correct.  Despite all of what I wrote you're willing to cut the "fat" and pick at me for calling you imperialpain as a small ha ha.  It makes me feel better knowing that you are digging so deep to put complete crap on your plate of dung points.  You don't have to label yourself as a fanboy, but if you want to assume I was speaking to you directly.  Feel free.  People, like yourself (that's right you're included this time), have various interpretations of what's written, and it's my failure as a poster that I can not keep you from lumping yourself in with the rest of the trash.



I'm digging deep, eh?  

It's nice how we've gone from a complete debate over actual points of arguement, to silly name calling and bickering . . . mind you, I'm not the one who threw the first stone.

So says he who has proven by his own account that his interpretation is correct, even after having been proven wrong.  So, I guess then, you yourself are also lumping yourself in with the trash, eh?

Opinions are like assholes - everyone has one, and they all stink.  Sadly, the ones that smell the worst are those based off of conjecture rather than factual information.  Again, show me the hard factual information, not an "opinion" based off of testing hardware that is not yet available.



> Wrong and you have no proof to back-up this claim.  You took what I said out of context again, but whatever you're just reaching deep to demonize.



No proof that a case setup doesn't directly affect the operating temperature of one's hardware?!

    

That's good man, you should be a tech comedian!



> I find some people have a hard time conceptualizing and forming educated opinions especially when it's scary to estimate.  Even if I am wrong in my projection of 13-25% worse than 5870s in crossfire it says something that I've thought about it and shared the idea with the community.  It's not poison, I didn't bring up Fermi, and I stated my expectations based on GOOD REASON.  You can call it crap.  Hell I'm sure Wolf appreciates the sentiment.



So, you're that 100% definite in your fuddled opinion that you're not willing to take me up on my offer, eh?  I have no fear of setting my rig up and benching a single 4870x2 against two 4870s in crossfire, with all hardware at stock clocks.

But, I'm guessing that since you've been proven wrong, you're afraid of my results nailing that coffin shut.

And regarding Wolf's "hypothesis" - I never directly stated it was crap . . . that's your interpretation, kid. 



> Cheers Kid.  I should have expected as much from this community and kept the fist comment a little less terse.  Apparently being an adult is reserved for staff members.  Anyone with an opinion or sense of humor is labelled a child.   I gotta add it makes it harder to buy a product when a few sharp tongued people make its discussion a bad memory.



Well, if such discussion leaves a bad taste in your mouth . . . perhaps one should be a little more tactful in future discussions . . . as well as be a little more careful as to what "information" one wants to stand behind.  I guess that'd be a little easier to swallow if one was more willing to _act_ like an adult, instead of figuring it's only reserved for staff memembers around here.  It's always funny how some users throw out comments, and then try to pass it off later as it only being "a joke," if maturity were factored in, then you'd know for sure that throwing out such comments is not the smartest of ideas when a discussion is starting to become a bit more lively.

But, I guess by your standards, I'm not allowed to have any opinion of my own, and that your opinion is the only correct one around here, eh?

As of that, I'm done dealing with you and your "opinions" in this thread.  Take a bow, you're the second user who's ever made any of my *ignore* lists!


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## Binge (Nov 13, 2009)

Hell I'm glad.  I hope you eventually re-read everything you and I have discussed.  I think you'll notice we both missed a few words here and there.  I had no idea you were talking about temperatures with respect to case/setup.  To me there is only the fact that ATI's new cards have a thermal limit and then the cards will throttle.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Any test done can yield some information if done half correctly.  I trust what wolf found, and I trust myself.  You can pick apart and choose which words you want to split hairs over, but I honestly tried to understand you posts as a single idea with multiple points.  In a spat it looks like we both like the smell of our own farts, but even I'm willing to admit when my sh!t stinks.  My sh!t stinks right now, but I feel entitled to defend myself.  I remember being told to ignore people who lack the skills to debate, and as tiring as it is to deal with people who think in absolutes and can't admit fault in comprehension it's important to try anyway.  I'm not saying you lack these skills directly.  If you find that you've misunderstood anything in this thread then you'll be the one to realize it, and as for me I'll do my best to understand your point of view.  I only argue that ATI plans to do nothing innovative.  Some time last year they published a plan of attack of sorts.  The plan basically showed how they plan to fill in the gaps of performance with multi-gpu solutions and then match the multi gpu solution with a single card solution in a smaller process.  They intended to show the difference between themselves and the competition.  I can only assume that this means their multi-gpu solutions aren't meant to be anything special.  Real innovation happened when they made the 5870 despite it being a double-up on the previous generation.  I say this because the heat/power specs are so little for something so powerful on a single gpu.  In no way am I impressed with the performance or the price.  Whatever gave you the impression that I was being hypocritical is probably a misunderstanding.  As for your hopes of a superior player in the 5970 I wish you the best.  Whether you get the card or not it would be nice for you to be right on the money with whatever it is you think might happen.

You're the second person who's added me to an "ignore" list.  Maybe it's fate


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## wolf (Nov 13, 2009)

imperialreign said:


> jumping to conclusions based on another user's unfounded testing with questionable methods



 I trust my testing more than any review site, it also follows suit on another users testing (bobzilla) within the margin of error.



Binge said:


> Hell I'm sure Wolf appreciates the sentiment.



 I do, thank you very much.



imperialreign said:


> And regarding Wolf's "hypothesis" - I never directly stated it was crap . . . that's your interpretation, kid.



 maybe not crap, but you kinda undermined it...



Binge said:


> I trust what wolf found, and I trust myself.



Thanks Binge, there no point in me tainting results, and past experience has shown me when you clock cards of equal architecture the same, it is *roughly* a very good test, and will show pretty darn accurate results.

I can hardly be called a fanboy for either, I love my GPU's of any make, shape or color  and heres another spanner to throw in the works, I had micro-stuttering with my two 4870's in CF, just goes to show every users experience will be slightly different.


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## inferKNOX (Nov 14, 2009)

wolf um... have you noticed that Binge is sorta piggy-backing on you to troll in the thread and people are trying to counter him w/o stepping on your toes, but he's directing them at you coz you're the one with credibility?
There's a simple solution that I found even saved some kittens guys; DFTT.


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## wolf (Nov 14, 2009)

I have credibility?! awwwwwwwwww


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## Edito (Nov 14, 2009)

I don't know why there is sou much hype around the 5800 series in the end they are still fighting with the GTXs 285 and GTXs 295 all the 5800 Series can't kill those cards why all the fuzz its not like i don't like ATI i think they are doin a good job but belive me the GT300 lol will kill everthing...


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## runnin17 (Nov 14, 2009)

Binge said:


> This card is close to 13" long by the way.



How could you possibly know that???? Unless you work for AMD or have a reliable source that is telling you that. Sounds like more misinformation to me shadedshu:shadedshu


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## runnin17 (Nov 14, 2009)

This thread has turned out to be an ultimate fail. Do people seriously get worked up over this crap??? It is a video card. To each their own. If the Nvidia people want to spend the extra money to say they have Nvidia let them. I have owned a total of one Nvidia card and it didn't perform all that well for me. 

Since then I have owned ATI cards and while they have not been perfect; I have been happy with their performance for the price. Also, if nvidia ever gets off the "holier than thou" seat and starts thinking about the consumer once again; I will then give them a little respect. I applaud them for putting out some very nice cards, but they still haven't ever cared about decent prices for their cards.  Their needs to be better competition overall in my opinion. Just having two major video card companies is not that great in the long run. I wish Matrox and Voodoo were still in the game, but alas they aren't.

All you fanboi's should be encouraging more competition because that will help with pricing and also with inovation.


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## El_Mayo (Nov 14, 2009)

runnin17 said:


> How could you possibly know that???? Unless you work for AMD or have a reliable source that is telling you that. Sounds like more misinformation to me shadedshu:shadedshu





> And here are the pictures of the card itself in an Antec 1200. The card itself is 13.5 inches long, and has problems fitting even a full sized tower case like the Antec 1200



Here

i think that's the 5970
i don't know if that's a "reliable" source but yeah


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## inferKNOX (Nov 14, 2009)

Edito said:


> I don't know why there is sou much hype around the 5800 series *in the end they are still fighting with the GTXs 285* and GTXs 295 all the 5800 Series can't kill those cards why all the fuzz its not like i don't like ATI i think they are doin a good job but belive me the GT300 lol will kill everthing...


 The reason there's the hype is because all the 5800s outperform the GTX285, which means the 5900s will outperform the GTX295. Read some of W1zz's reviews and see.


runnin17 said:


> How could you possibly know that???? Unless you work for AMD or have a reliable source that is telling you that. Sounds like more misinformation to me shadedshu:shadedshu


I too read in multiple places that it is about 30cm long. El_Mayo's post if further proof of that. Google will reveal quite a few fairly trustable sources that attest to it.


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## Laurijan (Nov 14, 2009)

How long is that card? Seems enormouse


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## Polaris573 (Nov 14, 2009)

General advisory. If you do not have something constructive to add to a thread then do not post.


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## Binge (Nov 14, 2009)

runnin17 said:


> How could you possibly know that???? Unless you work for AMD or have a reliable source that is telling you that. Sounds like more misinformation to me shadedshu:shadedshu



http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=1611218&postcount=1937


@[H] - I thought you would find it interesting that I am usually able to find GTX295s for under $470 including tax and shipping.  Here's an example: http://www.unitedoffice.com/ttechnote.asp?part_no=VCGGTX295SXPB&vid=356&src=F

Just last year I got a few people GTX280s for $200.  I'm sorry this post may smell green to some people, but before it gets all nasty I helped a few members here get Diamond 5870s for $360.  Fitseries likes to help people find deals too.  Newegg isn't the only place to find electronics.


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## El_Mayo (Nov 14, 2009)

inferKNOX said:


> I too read in multiple places that it is about 30cm long. El_Mayo's post if further proof of that. Google will reveal quite a few fairly trustable sources that attest to it.


Where's my motherfucking thanks then? 



Laurijan said:


> How long is that card? Seems enormouse


see MY earlier post 
13.5 inches (first time i heard that.. i made penis jokes too)


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## inferKNOX (Nov 14, 2009)

El_Mayo said:


> Where's my motherfucking thanks then?
> 
> 
> see MY earlier post
> 13.5 inches (first time i heard that.. i made penis jokes too)



Ha ha ha, yeah runnin17, where's his thanks?!
I 'added' to your imperial with a metric figure, tee hee hee!

EDIT: that's fair enough Binge, but we're talking about launch for now with the 5900s. More appropriate figures would be the launch figures for those cards you're talking about.


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## Binge (Nov 14, 2009)

inferKNOX said:


> Ha ha ha, yeah runnin17, where's his thanks?!
> I 'added' to your imperial with a metric figure, tee hee hee!
> 
> EDIT: that's fair enough Binge, but we're talking about launch for now with the 5900s. More appropriate figures would be the launch figures for those cards you're talking about.



I appreciate you consider it fair.  The price/perf issue is really based on opinion.  Last year I didn't care how much it cost to get the highest performance, so just glancing over the figures wasn't hard.  In this economy I've gotta say this is a bit much for me.  My reflex to respond to the price was based on the original post.  The OP places the card at $550 or higher if we consider that the recommended resale is the same in euro as USD.  I can't imagine that ATI would shaft Europe that badly, so I'm inclined to believe the card is at least $600 in reference to the original post.  This may not be the case and I think it will be higher which is too high.  Speculation is allowed here.


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## wahdangun (Nov 14, 2009)

i really can't wait for wizz to review this monster, 13,5" it will break new record.

do anyone know when this car get launched?


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## Black Panther (Nov 15, 2009)

wahdangun said:


> i really can't wait for wizz to review this monster, 13,5" it will break new record.



Long-card is long... 

If this gets launched by December I'll have to cut away some hdd bays to get it to fit for sure.


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## wahdangun (Nov 15, 2009)

yeah, i'm really surprised too, 13,5' it's damm to long


maybe it's good for people that want longer e-pen


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## EarlZ (Nov 15, 2009)

I hope this card is worth the upgrade from a GTX285


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## runnin17 (Nov 15, 2009)

Well I won't argue with the sources you guys have provided. It just doesn't make sense to me to have the card be 13.5" long. But if it is, it is. Seems kind of a dumb move on ATI's part just to get the performance crown. Oh well. We will see when it finally comes out.


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 15, 2009)

if AMD pulls the NDA off the top end boards i expect boards of the X2 range to have better cooling, power regulation, and shorter PCBs, along with the rest of the Lineup.


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## Hayder_Master (Nov 15, 2009)

there is two things 
1-should be 4GB version 
2- is there bridge too between the two GPU's like 4870x2


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## wahdangun (Nov 15, 2009)

1. yes, i hope they will release 4GB edition (maybe become eyefinity edition)
2. yep their still use PLX chip


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## El_Mayo (Nov 15, 2009)

runnin17 said:


> Well I won't argue with the sources you guys have provided. It just doesn't make sense to me to have the card be 13.5" long. But if it is, it is. Seems kind of a dumb move on ATI's part just to get the performance crown. Oh well. We will see when it finally comes out.



Isn't nvidia planning to release some behemoth to take the performance crown?


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## imperialreign (Nov 15, 2009)

hayder.master said:


> there is two things
> 1-should be 4GB version
> 2- is there bridge too between the two GPU's like 4870x2




Yeah, a 4GB wouldn't surprise me - considering the 4870x2 was quite healthy with 2GB of GDDR5 (1GB for each GPU) . . . 2GB per GPU on the 5970 would seem appropriate.  It'd be nice if each GPU could access the total allotment on the card, but highly unlikely.

As well, there will be an interface/translator chip between the two GPUs (just like the one on the 3870x2/4870x2) . . . it allows the two GPUs to "talk" to each other, without having to pass the information across the SYS BUS.




El_Mayo said:


> Isn't nvidia planning to release some behemoth to take the performance crown?




Supossedly . . . GT300 will be this beast.  It's all somewhat speculation, though.  There's rumor that GT300 will be a dual-GPU setup upon initial release, and all subsequent releases will be single-GPU cards.  Seems rather strange for nVidia to release their upper-end "monster" right out of the gate, then follow-up with the lower end cards . . .

TBH, though, unless they've made a drastic change to architecture and design - I get the impression that the GT300 will be running on par with the HD5000 series.  nVidia hasn't exactly made any "major" changes to their design structure over the last few years . . . 

but, this is just speculation on my part . . . I think we're nearing the age that the two companies are pretty much on par with each other's performance . . . we'll have to see how it goes.


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## Binge (Nov 15, 2009)

El_Mayo said:


> Isn't nvidia planning to release some behemoth to take the performance crown?



I gave a shout out to my buddy Jensen and his physical response sums it up nicely:


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## mdm-adph (Nov 16, 2009)

Binge said:


> I gave a shout out to my buddy Jensen and his physical response sums it up nicely:
> http://www.fudzilla.com/images/stories/2009/November/General News/jensen_dubai_new_tablet.jpg



What, that the promises they're having to keep get _this_ much bigger everyday? 

At this rate, the GT300 is going to be a quad-core monster with 8192 MB of RAM with a 1024-bit bus; it will be four slots wide and require 3 8-pin connectors; its performance will be slightly on par with 3 HD 5870's in tri-fire.  

And it was available yesterday.  All for only $999.

Come and get it!


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## El_Mayo (Nov 16, 2009)

mdm-adph said:


> What, that the promises they're having to keep get _this_ much bigger everyday?
> 
> At this rate, the GT300 is going to be a quad-core monster with 8192 MB of RAM with a 1024-bit bus; it will be four slots wide and require 3 8-pin connectors; its performance will be slightly on par with 3 HD 5870's in tri-fire.
> 
> ...




Genius


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## shevanel (Nov 16, 2009)

No, no, no. The GTFO edition of 300 series must be six core or better.. and at least x6 the memory of a MARS.








In all honesty though, in the future I can see us running our GPU's in some console type box, then with an exstension plugging into the PCI i/o and into the PCIE slot.. the console like box will have its own power plug and water cooling.

All GPU's will be EXTERNAL.. LMAO


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## El_Mayo (Nov 16, 2009)

shevanel said:


> No, no, no. The GTFO edition of 300 series must be six core or better.. and at least x6 the memory of a MARS.
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/091116/GTX 295 X4 Black Edition Sonic Ultra.jpg
> 
> ...



that actually could work!
i think


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## shevanel (Nov 16, 2009)

Cards keep getting bigger and bigger.. how much longer before we have to have these monstrous pieces of hardware hanging from 1/2" lip. Eventually things are going to have to either get smaller or find other ways to operate outside of a PC case. By the time you add a waterblock to these big cards they weigh a ton.


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## Benetanegia (Nov 16, 2009)

shevanel said:


> No, no, no. The GTFO edition of 300 series must be six core or better.. and at least x6 the memory of a MARS.
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/091116/GTX 295 X4 Black Edition Sonic Ultra.jpg
> 
> ...



That thing you described exists or existed, but I think it never met the market. It was basically an enclosure with its own PSU that connected via cable to a especial PCIe card on your motherboard's PCIe x16 slot.

On the workstation market that exists too, Nvidia's one is called QuadroPlex: http://www.nvidia.com/page/quadroplex.html


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## jaredpace (Nov 16, 2009)




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## grimeleven (Nov 17, 2009)

omfg the monster is alive... i so want one  

Case fit - Check
Funds - Check
2x perf upgrade - Check
Custom cooling - Fail

err i might have to wait hehe


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## mdm-adph (Nov 17, 2009)

$599?  Booo!


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 17, 2009)

mdm-adph said:


> $599?  Booo!



They might as well list it for free. Its not like you can find a 58xx series card anyway.


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## mdm-adph (Nov 17, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> They might as well list it for free. Its not like you can find a 58xx series card anyway.



Maybe they don't really exist.  Maybe they're just a figment of our imagination.  

(These are thoughts that help the Nvidia CEO get to sleep at night.)


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 17, 2009)

mdm-adph said:


> Maybe they don't really exist.  Maybe they're just a figment of our imagination.
> 
> (These are thoughts that help the Nvidia CEO get to sleep at night.)



I'm about to go green just to spite ATI. I WANT A 5850 DAMN IT!


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## mdm-adph (Nov 17, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I'm about to go green just to spite ATI. I WANT A 5850 DAMN IT!



Coincidentally, if ATI enjoys two years or so at the top and Nvidia can't answer the challenge (though I'm quite sure they will be -- Nvidia is rich compared to ATI), I will certainly start buying Nvidia cards, because I like helping out the underdog. 

What a weird world it will be.


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## a_ump (Nov 17, 2009)

yea that would be interesting for Nvidia to not be on top in performance and for them to go underdog a couple years. 

Honestly the price makes perfect sense to me. i mean the HD 5850 is 299 now so 2 of those plus shipping is going to be really close to HD 5970's cost. And 2 HD 5870's cost like $780-$820 with shipping depending on where u purchase and find so for the performance i think the HD 5970 is going to have a better price/perf.


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## Binge (Nov 17, 2009)

here you go folks!

http://wccftech.com/2009/11/17/ati-radeon-5970-radeon-5870/


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