# The unknown future of PC gaming....



## KyleReese (Mar 2, 2011)

Ok, so I just finished reading all the posts in the thread about the MP demo of Crysis 2. As far as I can tell, almost everyone here is disappointed, saying the the game feels too much like a console port, the multiplayer isn't innovative, the graphics being even worse than Crysis 1 in DX9, and the gameplay itself too linear compared to its predecessor. It doesn't feel as revolutionary like the first one was....probably because of the "curse" also known as multi-platform...and this is becoming an all too familiar trend these days...just compare Mafia to Mafia II!!
So, I 've been thinking... Which PC game do you think will be the next big one...? the one that sets a new, never-seen-before standard for a particular genre? Or even the industry as a whole? That defines a new era of gaming on the PC? 
I remember when I first played Duke Nukem 3D back in 1996...I was completely blown away! Being the 1st game I ever played on PC, and having only played games on a Sega Genesis and a Super NES until then, I really felt that the PC was the gaming platform of dreams...the platform that could have games that 16-bit consoles could only dream of. PC games then felt so much more advanced than consoles, not only from a technological point of view, they also  felt more "mature", more complicated. In short, something that just couldn't be done on any console.....yet.
 I mean , you played e.g. side platformers and beat'em ups on the consoles, while people with the PC could play Microsoft's Flight Simulator for Win 95! Or FMV adventures... The difference was just....chaotic! And any comparison laughable...
So, now that the game consoles are so much closer to the PC in terms of gaming capability, do you think that we 'll ever have that feeling again? Like in the old days...?  Do you think a game will come out that will make people say, "It could only be made possible on the PC".
Sure, games will come out that will (almost certainly) be much better looking the PC, and, hopefully, the gameplay will just "feel" better on the PC. Elder Scrolls Skyrim comes to mind.

But that's not the answer that I 'm looking for. I 'm talkin' about true evolution! Like we PC gamers felt when 3DFX was born...what do you think must be done for us to have that feeling again...? Direct X 12...? advanced motion-sensor controls on PC games, more advanced than Kinect will ever be...? What....?
Or do you think PC gaming is doomed to walk into the shadows of console gaming forever...? having the same games only with higher graphics and resolution options...?

I 'd be very interested on any thoughts anyone might have on the subject...


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## overclocker (Mar 2, 2011)

Having the same games only with higher graphics and resolution options < this is what I think it will stay at.


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## Maelstrom (Mar 3, 2011)

I believe that if anything "revolutionary" will be created, it won't be by any of the big name game creators. It will be done by an indie developer, or a small startup company.

Unless a break-through game comes out, I think pc gaming will be forever tied to consoles in one way or another.


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## Jack Doph (Mar 3, 2011)

Agreed.
It's more likely that a break-through game will be tied to a console, rather than a PC (Gran Turismo comes to mind).


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## Ev1LrYu (Mar 3, 2011)

Cant help but agree too. Consoles are where the money's at at this point, so developers will try to cash in there first


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## ivicagmc (Mar 3, 2011)

Pains me to say that, but this looks like beginning of the end of PC gaming. $$$$$ makes the world go around, and the money is on consoles. Piracy is one of the reasons, greed is the other one. No one creates new things, takes risk with that... It is much safer to constantly repeat things that are certain to bring $$$$$$. Like the movie industry. All about $$$ and no more art. And to me, games were great art...


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## AltecV1 (Mar 3, 2011)

both pc and console gaming will become obsolete and streaming services will take over(onlive etc.) once the broadband connections are advanced enough


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## NinkobEi (Mar 3, 2011)

AltecV1 said:


> both pc and console gaming will become obsolete and streaming services will take over(onlive etc.) once the broadband connections are advanced enough



Meh, that seems like a false statement. Tons of users will want the ability to customize their PCs. I'd rather have a PC at my house just in case the net goes down or if I want to MOD a game. Onlive may defeat console gaming, but the PC market will meet a different apocalypse.


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## KainXS (Mar 3, 2011)

it will take years for that to happen i mean unless your in a place like korea where fast internet is cheap and is basically the same "quality" throughout many isp's its not really good, like If I use onlive at my house where i have decent internet here in the us i get a decent experience, a little lag, go to my brothers house in texas and his broadband is horrible,and its like that for alot of the isp's he can get.:shadedshu

i don't know how it is in the uk but I expect its better right


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## n-ster (Mar 3, 2011)

A "gaming" PC OEM should come out, with perhaps 3-4 standard desktops (ie: Normal, gaming, hardcore gaming, custom), and make the normal with very cheap parts, appealing, and very simple, with perhaps a game OS, making it a PC console. then PC gaming will start again. Normal should be enough for playing on low, the gaming should be enough for medium, hardcore for high, custom for Max


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## Deleted member 67555 (Mar 3, 2011)

Ive been seeing conversations like this since 1996.....and I'll say this your all wrong..


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## Over_Lord (Mar 3, 2011)

NExt gen games this year are gonna look better, because EPIC just announced Unreal Engine 3 with DX11 at GDC


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## KyleReese (Mar 3, 2011)

ivicagmc said:


> And to me, games were great art...



Couldn't agree more...


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## claylomax (Mar 3, 2011)

Here's a similar thread for you: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1275519#post1275519


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## KyleReese (Mar 3, 2011)

Maelstrom said:


> I believe that if anything "revolutionary" will be created, it won't be by any of the big name game creators. It will be done by an indie developer, or a small startup company.
> 
> Unless a break-through game comes out, I think pc gaming will be forever tied to consoles in
> one way or another.



I personally don't care if it's an indie developer or not, as long as someone makes us believe in PC gaming again!




overclocker said:


> Having the same games only with higher graphics and resolution options < this is what I think it will stay at.



This is the worst case scenario for me....  but, unfortunately, it's also the most probable looking at how things are right now...


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## BumbleBee (Mar 3, 2011)

please elaborate.


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## KyleReese (Mar 3, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> please elaborate.



are you referring to me?


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## BumbleBee (Mar 3, 2011)

both of you. why makes you think games have lost their artistic value.


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## KyleReese (Mar 3, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> why makes you think games have lost their artistic value.



Well, I can't really explain it, it's just a feeling that I have for some years now...pc games do progress technologically, but lesser and lesser effort goes into making them unique...game developers are not willing to risk so much anymore, to create something totally different aesthetically...of course, there are exceptions, like Bioshock. Now that was a game with flair..! But most of the games feel...how to say...pretty generic to me....developers are willing to risk less because of piracy they say...i don't know if that's the reason, but I just feel something is missing


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## FordGT90Concept (Mar 3, 2011)

There's more computers on this planet than consoles.  Games $20 and under are very popular/common on computer but they don't have $1+ million budgets so the publishers don't go around bragging about them.  PCs, as a gaming platform, will never go away unless the PC itself does and that's not going to happen in the foreseeable future.

Remember, Solitaire is the most popular computer game, ever, with over 1 billion players.


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## KyleReese (Mar 3, 2011)

FordGT90Concept said:


> There's more computers on this planet than consoles.  Games $20 and under are very popular/common on computer but they don't have $1+ million budgets so the publishers don't go around bragging about them.  PCs, as a gaming platform, will never go away unless the PC itself does and that's not going to happen in the foreseeable future.
> 
> Remember, Solitaire is the most popular computer game, ever, with over 1 billion players.



Naturally. Hundreds of millions of people use computers all over the planet, and some of them want sometimes to play something that's easily accessible, fast, and easy to learn, and that doesn't require special hardware to run (dedicated GPUs). No wonder so many people play garbage games on facebook! I just hope the game industry doesn't forget the hardcore gaming portion of PC users and turn its attention to consoles exclusively...


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## TAViX (Mar 3, 2011)

I wont be that pessimistic.

I think the gaming on PCs will continue to evolve, now that the piracy on console is on pair or even bigger with the one on PCs. Until now, producers have the lame excuse to create crappy games because of piracy of PC games. Until a couple of months ago PS3 was uncrackable, XBOX almost the same, but not today.
Besides, some rumors are saying that AMD, Nvidia and even Intel are putting pressure on game developers to start using advanced features in games capable of running on the latest games. It gets a little logic, since if the trend continues, that 95% of the games released are ports, nobody will want a new graphic card to play games capable of running with full quality on a 3870, for example.

Remains to be seen.


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## Deleted member 67555 (Mar 3, 2011)

KyleReese said:


> Naturally. Hundreds of millions of people use computers all over the planet, and some of them want sometimes to play something that's easily accessible, fast, and easy to learn, and that doesn't require special hardware to run (dedicated GPUs). No wonder so many people play garbage games on facebook! I just hope the game industry doesn't forget the hardcore gaming portion of PC users and turn its attention to consoles exclusively...



They wont... we'll continue to get crappy ports...but worry not as PC gamers will get to test out all the new engines with crappy games while they refine em for consoles...


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## KyleReese (Mar 3, 2011)

TAViX said:


> I think the gaming on PCs will continue to evolve, now that the piracy on console is on pair or even bigger with the one on PCs. Until now, producers have the lame excuse to create crappy games because of piracy of PC games. Until a couple of months ago PS3 was uncrackable, XBOX almost the same, but not today.
> Besides, some rumors are saying that AMD, Nvidia and even Intel are putting pressure on game developers to start using advanced features in games capable of running on the latest games. It gets a little logic, since if the trend continues, that 95% of the games released are ports, nobody will want a new graphic card to play games capable of running with full quality on a 3870, for example.
> Also I'm really interested about this game LA Noir, that will be a PC exclusive I think, because of the advanced features implemented like facial animation with expression and stuff...



That's the thing I 'm counting on the most!  The pressure from the GPU makers...
And LA Noir is coming to PC!!!!???!! really???!!!! that's FANTASTIC!!     I though it was only a PS3 exclusive or something..!!! Are you sure...???


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## BumbleBee (Mar 3, 2011)

L.A. Noire is not coming to PC.


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## TAViX (Mar 3, 2011)

KyleReese said:


> Are you sure...???



Not anymore...NO.:shadedshu

Seen now the page. This sucks big time. I think they have changed this on those couple of months, because when they were talking about this game they were clear saying that those features are to advanced for consoles...WTF?!


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## KyleReese (Mar 3, 2011)

TAViX said:


> Not anymore...NO.



Ah damn...you really made my day for a moment there....
I really wish they made a PC version of LA Noire built from the ground up....


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## KyleReese (Mar 3, 2011)

By the way, do you think Duke Nukem Forever will be better than Crysis 2 on the PC?  Maybe someone should start a thread about it....


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## Mr McC (Mar 3, 2011)

I think too many people are confusing a particular company’s withdrawal from pc gaming or focus on the console market with the demise of pc gaming as a whole. Despite all the alarmists and doomsayers and notwithstanding the impact occasioned by the products of a specific developer in the past, pc gaming will survive and evolve without them, perhaps even strengthened by their absence. Marketing strategies inevitably employ references to past successes and we are bombarded with a host of sequels that often have little or nothing to do with the original game, particularly in terms of quality, we simply have to be smart enough to see through this. Rocky probably could and should have ended with the original film, but subsequent releases that have cashed in on its success don’t really detract from the quality of the first production. The same could be said of the second StarWars trilogy, the third part of the Godfather and, in all likelihood Crysis 2. Perhaps the days of being able to trust a particular franchise or company are reaching their end, but the industry as a whole, whilst suffering changes, will survive.


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## wahdangun (Mar 3, 2011)

two word
-eyefinity/surround view
-and 3D

and btw  Llano will change the shape of pc games because now generic and cheap dell tower can play modern games and make pc gaming viable and profitable again for developer


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## hat (Mar 3, 2011)

I see the future of PC gaming being mostly shitty console ports. Games on the PC will pretty much be stagnant until the next generation of consoles come out with stronger hardware... only then will we start to see a lot of improvement.


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## erixx (Mar 3, 2011)

Coding will not change, nor will writing letters, or designing stuff with the computer.
What will 'change' is the multimedia-multinationals sucking our blood...


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## MLG The Canadian (Mar 3, 2011)

In my opinion, gaming has moved downhill quite a bit. It seems to be all about fancy graphics and effects rather than actually having fun with most titles.

This generation of kids listening to all this shitty rap and hip hop who grew up playing Call of Duty: Modern Warfare never saw what gaming was in it's prime. There is a select few of us who lived through the time of the Atari, NES, SNES and first 3D video game consoles such as the PSX and N64, and we will always have those memories. We're lucky enough to have grown up in such a time where gaming was evolving. I'm not alluding to anything but I haven't bought a game in quite some time, and for good reason. 

I've got all my old consoles and games, and I play them regularly. All the old school resident evil titles (the good ones, 1,2,3 and 0, not the third person action shooter crap. You know, the games that actually defined survival horror), great RPG's like Threads of Fate and Final Fantasy, Legend of Dragoon, etc. 

Personally I'm not at all concerned with where gaming is going because I'll always have my favorite games to play over and over again. 

But yes, I do agree that gaming has gone somewhere different in the past 10 years.


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## KainXS (Mar 3, 2011)

its those indie games that can make gaming better now those guys on they're piss poor budgets can push out fun games where the much larger companies can only sometimes put out rehashed storylines and repetitive garbage, im puttin my bet on the indie games.

graphics aren't everything and they prove it.

greed is murdering gaming now, years ago it wasn't really like this because many of the established developers and studios were still trying to get a foothold.


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## CJCerny (Mar 3, 2011)

Guys, there isn't anything to worry about. I chuckle everything this thread comes up. Consoles have been around longer than home computers (hello...Atari 2600) yet PC gaming survives. PC gaming and console gaming are two totally seperate things. Yes, you can bemoan the fact that some big titles start their lives on consoles and therefore feel dumbed-down compared to titles that start development on the PC, but this whole gaming thing is a business after all, and people are in it to make money. If you want to feel special about PC gaming, stop buying the titles that were devoloped for consoles and focus on the titles that were developed for the PC, like StarCraft II, and Civ 5, and a long list of other titles.


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## n-ster (Mar 3, 2011)

KainXS said:


> its those indie games that can make gaming better now those guys on they're piss poor budgets can push out fun games where the much larger companies can only sometimes put out rehashed storylines and repetitive garbage, im puttin my bet on the indie games.
> 
> graphics aren't everything and they prove it.
> 
> greed is murdering gaming now, years ago it wasn't really like this because many of the established developers and studios were still trying to get a foothold.



They figured "don't change it if it sells like crazy". Not really their fault


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## Ra97oR (Mar 3, 2011)

I mostly plays mod, such as MWLL, Neotokyo, Dystopia and stuff like Red Orchestra. Doubt I will see any of them on console.


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## RejZoR (Mar 3, 2011)

When retarded marketing schemes are dumped from PC's, the PC gaming will fly. Steam comes to my mind here...


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## FordGT90Concept (Mar 3, 2011)

KyleReese said:


> Naturally. Hundreds of millions of people use computers all over the planet, and some of them want sometimes to play something that's easily accessible, fast, and easy to learn, and that doesn't require special hardware to run (dedicated GPUs). No wonder so many people play garbage games on facebook! I just hope the game industry doesn't forget the hardcore gaming portion of PC users and turn its attention to consoles exclusively...


I'm thinking more and more so that indie is the future of gaming (e.g. World of Goo and Minecraft).  The "industry" only cares about graphics (to make game critics excited which means they, in turn, hype it even if it is crap), multiplayer (because pirates can't pirate that), and of course, money.


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 3, 2011)

I'm an ex-PC gamer and a current console gamer.  Game devs know that the console market is where the cash is at!  So more and more titles will be console only or console ports


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## RejZoR (Mar 3, 2011)

That's not true. Cash is also in PC gaming if you market it properly and not with methods that maybe worked fine 2 decades ago... Great example are all the indie games that share great success. And Valve games. They simply use a modern model to sell their games.


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## n-ster (Mar 3, 2011)

The average PC gamer is smarter than the average console gamer so the normal marketing tricks didn't work anymore


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 3, 2011)

RejZoR said:


> That's not true. Cash is also in PC gaming if you market it properly and not with methods that maybe worked fine 2 decades ago... Great example are all the indie games that share great success. And Valve games. They simply use a modern model to sell their games.



Yeah, there is still cash to be made from PC gaming.  But console gaming is bigger right now.  BTW, I'm not trying to defend console gaming or anything.  I used to love PC gaming!



n-ster said:


> The average PC gamer is smarter than the average console gamer so the normal marketing tricks didn't work anymore



LOL


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## BumbleBee (Mar 3, 2011)

Microsoft and Sony pay millions of dollars for exclusive rights. it helps to have incentive. you can count on The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim DLC being a timed exclusive. I find it interesting every platform has a company overseeing it except PC Gaming. nobody is watching out for PC Gamers interest.


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## RejZoR (Mar 3, 2011)

It's bigger because stupid developers and even more stupid publishers allowed it. Before, consoles were far less popular (if we don't take Nintendo into consideration because they pioneered it).


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## FordGT90Concept (Mar 3, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> Microsoft and Sony pay millions of dollars for exclusive rights. it helps to have incentive. you can count on The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim DLC being a timed exclusive. I find it interesting every platform has a company overseeing it except PC Gaming. nobody is watching out for PC Gamers interest.


Microsoft used to but they abandoned it for Xbox (especially Xbox 360).


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## TAViX (Mar 3, 2011)

CJCerny said:


> Guys, there isn't anything to worry about. I chuckle everything this thread comes up. Consoles have been around longer than home computers (hello...Atari 2600) yet PC gaming survives. PC gaming and console gaming are two totally seperate things. Yes, you can bemoan the fact that some big titles start their lives on consoles and therefore feel dumbed-down compared to titles that start development on the PC, but this whole gaming thing is a business after all, and people are in it to make money. If you want to feel special about PC gaming, stop buying the titles that were devoloped for consoles and focus on the titles that were developed for the PC, like StarCraft II, and Civ 5, and a long list of other titles.



Interesting. Besides Mass Effect 1+2, I only have bought so far games that are PC exclusive (or they were developed first for PC than ported, not the other way around): Descent Freespace 1+2, DeusEx, Unreal 1+2, Tron 2.0, first NFSs, Warcraft 1+2+3, Starcraft 1+2, C&C - mostly all, Diablo 1+2, Half Life 1 +2 + eps, Never Winter Nights, Crysis, Witcher, etc, etc...Haha. Can only draw 1 conclusion...Console ports sucks and are no interesting...mostly.


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## Benetanegia (Mar 3, 2011)

I think that consoles will dissapear after the next generation or this one if they don't release a new one soon. Wireless display technologies as a mainstream solution are just around the corner so we are going to be able t see our PC in any screen on the house. The integrated graphics are going to get better and better to the point were they will be able to produce graphics that are good enough for most people except enthusiasts and on the CPU side of things they are already powerful enough to drive advanced games, 6 cores will be mainstream soon and anything more than that overkill for what we now know as gaming. Even smartphones will be powerful enough for most people (and remember that you would be able to wirelessly output to the TV and have any wireless device as an input for the phone too). 

Then there's Windows 8 for ARM that will open up the door to Windows gaming on portable devices, etc.

Enthusiasts will always want more and that can only come from advanced PCs and that will stay, but consoles which are something in the middle will just dissapear IMO. If anything Sony's and M$'s consoles division will morph into PC OEM companies dedicated to creating PCs (taking into account the new definition for PC, which includes tblets, phones and who knows what comes next).

So, there will be the mainstream market, which will play from Facebook and the like in their basic computers (for the time), maybe even tablets or smartphones, except those games are going to be far more advanced than current consoles anyway.

And there will be the enthusiast PC market driving innovation. I don't see a place for consoles in the middle of those markets. Everyone needs a PC and if the basic PCs have all the functionality of a console and are just good enough for gaming, I don't see any market for consoles.

So where does that leave PC gaming? Well here is more hoping than based on facts, but I think that once the enthusiast and mainstream gaming markets belong to the same platform, developers will find a way to make games better scale between mainstream solutions and enthusiast PCs, considering that the OS, APIs and underlying hardware are the same.

Game companies like Zynga and Popcap are already making more money than "standard" companies. PC gaming is here to stay, while consoles fade away, the only question is if enthusiast PC gaming stays, and I do think it will stay at least for another 10 or 20 years, or until games are completely realistic (holodeck), whatever comes first.


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## 20mmrain (Mar 3, 2011)

I believe PC gaming will make a come back when they make PC gaming as cheap as Console gaming. If they can do that things will take off again.

I also believe that Today's console gamers while they play for the love of the game.... also are lazy and have no interest in going for something better then what they already have. I remember back in the day one of the biggest draws to PC gaming was to be able to say Your Graphics just look better. There is no console that can compete. It was almost a badge of honor in my group of friends. 
Now it's Who cares...."as long as I can play and I can do it for Cheap I don't care!"

To fix that PC would have to release something as good looking again such as DX9.  When DX9 rolled around it gave a reason for consoles to step back and say shit.... our crap looks bad. Right now the DX updates and updates in graphics period!... (for the PC) have been more based off making a buck then making break through visuals.

People want to see eye candy! While Tessellation will eventually help with that.... It won't help with that as drastically as some of the other Graphics updates have in the past. So sorry to say most people don't want to spend $600 dollars or more each year just to get minor steps in technology. People want big leaps!

There are allot of other factors in this discussion too.... But I believe what I listed above...is a big part of it IMO.

As well as there is also the tendency of the human being to be just lazy and go for the easiest thing!


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## Scheich (Mar 3, 2011)

KainXS said:


> greed is murdering gaming now, years ago it wasn't really like this because many of the established developers and studios were still trying to get a foothold.



Yep. It feels like the funlevel decreased by 80% over the past 10-20 years 

Why is it, that the only intesting fun game is FREE game from a warcraft 3 mod 

I wish, big companies wouldnt piss on gamers around the world with their copy paste crap, 
but the crowd of young people buying anything is too big, i guess :shadedshu


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## wahdangun (Mar 3, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> I think that consoles will dissapear after the next generation or this one if they don't release a new one soon. Wireless display technologies as a mainstream solution are just around the corner so we are going to be able t see our PC in any screen on the house. The integrated graphics are going to get better and better to the point were they will be able to produce graphics that are good enough for most people except enthusiasts and on the CPU side of things they are already powerful enough to drive advanced games, 6 cores will be mainstream soon and anything more than that overkill for what we now know as gaming. Even smartphones will be powerful enough for most people (and remember that you would be able to wirelessly output to the TV and have any wireless device as an input for the phone too).
> 
> Then there's Windows 8 for ARM that will open up the door to Windows gaming on portable devices, etc.
> 
> ...





yeah good point, especially after seeing sony move on playstation phone certificate maybe some day there will be a Playsation PC certificate lol


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 3, 2011)

Ra97oR said:


> I mostly plays mod, such as MWLL, Neotokyo, Dystopia and stuff like Red Orchestra. Doubt I will see any of them on console.



you played Neotokyo too?  so did i for a short while


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## GSquadron (Mar 3, 2011)

The worst thing here is that i like much more this prince of persia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz6yYVLXqnI
than this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxzZ4JBoGok&feature=fvst
Or this Tomb Raider here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyW3-cCdc0Y
than this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoB7Wa48oDs
Because now the video games are made even for STUPID people. 
Even they can play them and buy them that is the important point
I really miss the old games and they will never come back for sure
Also if dragon age origins is an epic game nowadays than you surely have not played
the great old vagrant story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU_GbSQxMDc
They killed vagrant story in order to achieve its money from final fantasy
The second one is just a dream:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuxSGvFTHeE


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## NdMk2o1o (Mar 3, 2011)

Yay it's that time of the month again and another "What wil happen tp PC gmaing" thread  

Seriously these are coming up on a monthly basis and have been doing since I have been member here and a long time before. If anything PC gaming is on the up not on the decline. But I suppose we have to have something to fill the forums up with stuff for people to debate even if it is the same old crap 

Yes PC games are not the same as they where, nor are bloody console games for crying out loud if you want old games go download dosbox or a few emulators and reminisce until your hearts content, heck I still play emu's and have great fun doing so, though still love a lot of modern PC games that a) look a shit load better on the pc than any console games and b) have dedicated servers/mod support etc. There are still good pc titles out there, just cause all of them are not good and there are console ports and shitty games about doesn't mean the end of pc gaming 

/topic

BTW never mind the end of the pc gaming industry its 2012 next year, you should be more worried about the world imploding and taking you with it


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## KainXS (Mar 3, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> Yeah, there is still cash to be made from PC gaming.  But console gaming is bigger right now.  BTW, I'm not trying to defend console gaming or anything.  I used to love PC gaming!
> auto
> 
> 
> LOL



traitor

Gotta Agree Aleks a good example is what happened to FF on the consoles all you have to do is hit autobattle to win for half the game and then watch a scene, 

if the world blows up, at least consoles will be gone too . . . . . lol


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## erocker (Mar 3, 2011)

I never believed this theory that PC gaming is dead. It's something that is always brought up without looking at the history of video games. Check this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_game_consoles

Game consoles have been around just as long as PC's have been around. Console games have been made as console games just as long.


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## exodusprime1337 (Mar 3, 2011)

more money is the name of the game for game developers.. consoles bring in more money thus they get dibs on games, we still get the games often with equal or better quality than our console counterparts.  We also get things like a huge mod community(natural mod for crysis) that make some games we get absolutely incredible.  MMO's are another big pc venture, it's nice having those for the pc and they'll probably stay with the pc for some time.  I have no problem with consoles getting first dibs on development time, i'd rather have the game later or with slightly less quality than not at all.


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## Benetanegia (Mar 3, 2011)

exodusprime1337 said:


> more money is the name of the game for game developers.. consoles bring in more money



That is not true. It's not inherently true, they made it be that way, and for the fact that stupid console gamers were always willing to pay $10-15 more for the same game and pay full price for what is essentially an expansion. The average PC gamer is more mature and wise than the average console gamer and I guess that's what they hate. Pure marketing and no talent works perfectly on consoles where they can sell garbage just because it was announced on TV, but for the PC they have to create a good game or it will not sell as well and it will only sell for as much as it's worth. That is what publishers hate, not how many copies they can sell. Ptentially they can sell much more on the PC and in fact PC games used to outsell most of third party console games in the past. It's the same in the movie and music industry, they don't want to base their sales on actual talent, because finding and retaining talented people is difficult and they can go away as soon as they realize the publisher is simply stealing from them. They want people and products they can just market on the TV and replace them when they start asking for too much, etc. In fact forget about the people, they're not people they are products too.

Make a game be worthwhile for the PC and it will sell just as well as on consoles. But the fact is that there's litterally only 10(?) games worthwhile for PCs in the last 5 years? How can anyone conclude that games sell more on consoles than on PC if you have never created a PC game to begin with? A console game will obviously sell more on consoles. No one wants to emulate console games on our PCs and that's what we get... (i.e. Left and right weapon slots on Bulletstorm WTF?)

Also when will they include digital sales? Last year 50% of PC sales were digital.


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## Fourstaff (Mar 3, 2011)

I think there is no way strategy games will be better in consoles unless they actually use keyboard and mouse, and there is always the casual crowd (read: Farmville) which will not allow PC gaming to die (in an ironic sense, probably). 

Personally, I think there is still plenty of life in PC games, while its days as THE gaming platform is gone, it does not mean that its on its way out anytime soon. I think its appropriate to quote Arnie: "Ill be back"


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## Deleted member 67555 (Mar 3, 2011)

I still remember thinking Pc gaming was over when EA bought Origin.....in 1992
Worst mistake in the History of PC gaming....If Chris Roberts wouldn't have sold EA would be nothing more than small foot note...

Wing Commander was the PC cash cow from 1990-1998


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## Jack Doph (Mar 3, 2011)

It may be pertinent to point out here, that the original question by the OP wasn't about the death of gaming on PCs, but if there was anything revolutionary going to happen regarding games on the PC - games that truly stand out and make a real difference to the junk we've been exposed to lately..


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## Deleted member 67555 (Mar 3, 2011)

Of course that will happen but it wont be anything your expecting or maybe it will...Such as 3D gaming on a PC with the Kinect....


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## Jack Doph (Mar 3, 2011)

I doubt 3D will add anything other than eye-candy though..


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## Deleted member 67555 (Mar 3, 2011)

See I think part of the problem is people aren't seeing the advances anymore because thet are jaded...

Take Black Ops...The mechanics of that game are 3x more advanced than that of MW1 but MW1 gave us such a better Multiplayer experience....Both imo opinion make the game but nobody seems to notice those kind of advances....We may not being seeing the next evolution in just ONE game but we are seeing it in every new title


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## HalfAHertz (Mar 3, 2011)

Something else that should be mentioned is that designing games for consoles is easier. It's easier from the perspective that you have a fixed hardware, there are no variations unlike on the PC side. You know exactly how much memory you'll have to work with, how much cpu and GPU horsepower you have. There is a limited number of things that can go wrong and your testing phases will be much shorter. On the PC side you have to test for two graphics vendors, you have to test with different hardware combinations, then with different software combinations then with a mix of both and ton top of that you'll need to invest more time into developing "redundant" things like advanced graphic settings, higher quality textures, variable LOD, etc. :]
So if you're game studio looking for the shortest way to cash in, you'll develop for consoles first and maaybe for pc afterwards.


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## erocker (Mar 3, 2011)

Smartphones and tablets are going to ruin console gaming. Just sayin'.


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## garyinhere (Mar 3, 2011)

erocker said:


> Smartphones and tablets are going to ruin console gaming. Just sayin'.



I disagree... i see those as extensions for PC games like farmville and similar. A lot of people will bitch about me saying this but Farmville brought a lot of people to the PC gaming market and got them spending money. Smart phones is jst how you play when your not at home kinda like the gameboy. People still bought Nintendo's they jst wanted portable too.


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## erocker (Mar 3, 2011)

garyinhere said:


> I disagree... i see those as extensions for PC games like farmville and similar. A lot of people will bitch about me saying this but Farmville brought a lot of people to the PC gaming market and got them spending money. Smart phones is jst how you play when your not at home kinda like the gameboy. People still bought Nintendo's they jst wanted portable too.



It was more of a joke against a lame argument to begin with.


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## cheesy999 (Mar 3, 2011)

KainXS said:


> it will take years for that to happen i mean unless your in a place like korea where fast internet is cheap and is basically the same "quality" throughout many isp's its not really good, like If I use onlive at my house where i have decent internet here in the us i get a decent experience, a little lag, go to my brothers house in texas and his broadband is horrible,and its like that for alot of the isp's he can get.
> 
> i don't know how it is in the uk but I expect its better right



broadband in the uk has 2 options

ADSL: speed depends mainly on how close you are to the exchange, people in countrysides usually get less then 2mbs, towns and cities get 2-8mbs (real speeds not advertised)

about 45% in uk can get cable and then it varies between 20-100mbs

government paid for bt infinity which means number who can get cable is slowly growing


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## GSquadron (Mar 3, 2011)

erocker said:


> Smartphones and tablets are going to ruin console gaming. Just sayin'.



PC's are going to run console games. Consoles will never run PC games....
I don't mean games which are for both


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## TAViX (Mar 3, 2011)

The future of PC gaming should focus more on the story. I don't care if it's a port or not, as long as it have a beautiful story line and gameplay. Mass Effect 1+2 is an example. Other games with awesome stories I don't know recently. Maybe Crysis... I used to love older games with crappy graphics (by today standards) but awesome story like Descent Freespace, DeusEx, Max Payne, Longest Journey, etc, etc, etc.....I want to see more of that now or in the future please.


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## Jaffakeik (Mar 3, 2011)

The game future is one big R.I.P.
Because nothing lasts forever.


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## HalfAHertz (Mar 3, 2011)

Arciks said:


> The game future is one big R.I.P.
> _Because *nothing lasts forever*._



Except Chuck Norris. He doesn't wear a watch - HE DECIDED what time it is.


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 3, 2011)

Arciks said:


> The game future is one big R.I.P.
> Because nothing lasts forever.



Ermmmmm, aren't you a massive console gamer also?


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## ShiBDiB (Mar 3, 2011)

FPS on pc is dying..

Strategy, Sims, Sports management ETC.. just dont work as well on a console platform 

Which is fine with me


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## BumbleBee (Mar 3, 2011)

ShiBDiB said:


> FPS on pc is dying..
> 
> Strategy, Sims, Sports management ETC.. just dont work as well on a console platform
> 
> Which is fine with me



I don't really care for Railworks or Farming Simulator 2011 either way lol







which end do the flamethrowers come out?


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## KainXS (Mar 3, 2011)

pc gaming has trends

When a new console comes out PC gaming does good because the PC sets the benchmark for the console but once consoles gets going and gets a fanbase PC gaming goes into decline(thats where the money goes to) but once the console starts getting old a new console comes out and it happens all over again.

right now if PC gaming did die, consoles would probably suffer massively too

so ima keep playin my mmo's and buyin video cards, pc gaming isn't going anywhere as long as there are consoles.

now if this cloud crap takes over though, then that I don't know.


Is that a john deere game?


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## BumbleBee (Mar 3, 2011)

KainXS said:


> pc gaming has trends
> 
> When a new console comes out PC gaming does good because the PC sets the benchmark for the console but once consoles gets going and gets a fanbase PC gaming goes into decline(thats where the money goes to) but once the console starts getting old a new console comes out and it happens all over again.
> 
> ...



Farm Simulator 2011.


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## Kreij (Mar 3, 2011)

> So, I 've been thinking... Which PC game do you think will be the next big one...? the one that sets a new, never-seen-before standard for a particular genre? Or even the industry as a whole? That defines a new era of gaming on the PC?



No one knows what the next trend setting game will be until it's written and released.

In my humble opinion, PC (and console) gaming will not advance to the "next level" until two things occur.
1) Developers stop using physics for simple eye candy and make it change the gaming experience.
2) CPUs get powerful enough to handle the massive amounts of parallel data being generated from #1.

Then we will get back the "Holy Crap" feeling we had in the early years of PC gaming.


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## Jaffakeik (Mar 4, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> Ermmmmm, aren't you a massive console gamer also?



I would'nt call me massive console gamer I bought my first console in january 2010,So 1 year is nothing compared to thouse who play console for enternity.I prefer PC. console is most part for fun with friends to do some motion action or some bomberman destruction.And of course for some games what never be on PC.
But to say my point of view about  future of gaming, I just say *Will See About That*
no comments, because i not the person who predicts anything i just live this day and nothing more.


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## Zen_ (Mar 4, 2011)

Is the rampant consolization and push towards subscription models and as much DLC as they can jam in due to greed or necessity? Activision Blizzard and EA would have us believe that the development cost for the "old" PC model (buy a game, get free updates, mod tools where applicable to make it fun for years) isn't possible anymore because the development cost are too high. 

I primarily play FPS games and there's no getting around that the genre has been very bad off since CoD4 hit the scene. The old guard, Valve, Epic and id are all working on other things (well Epic sold their soul to console) and there's been a period of *over 3 years* since a decent multiplayer game came out (TF2). I hope BF3 reverses that trend but it's hard to believe Dice when they say "we love PC!" and have the other eye focused on grabbing part of the CoD pie, which is what EA covets most.


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## hellrazor (Mar 4, 2011)

I think this article sums up the future of PC gaming. It's both good news and bad news at the same time.


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## Jack Doph (Mar 4, 2011)

hellrazor said:


> I think this article sums up the future of PC gaming. It's both good news and bad news at the same time.



I don't know.. I have a hard time believing much of anything that mr Romero states..


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## Kreij (Mar 4, 2011)

If the AAA studios and publishers abandon PC gaming for the more lucrative casual and console gamers we will be left with only the indie developers who love the PC platform and have a passion for writing a PC game, not just making shareholders happy.

That would be fantastic, as it would renew the entire PC gaming experience similar to when it first broke out.


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## Jack Doph (Mar 4, 2011)

Kreij said:


> If the AAA studios and publishers abandon PC gaming for the more lucrative casual and console gamers we will be left with only the indie developers who love the PC platform and have a passion for writing a PC game, not just making shareholders happy.
> 
> That would be fantastic, as it would renew the entire PC gaming experience similar to when it first broke out.



+1 to that.
I can understand how those closest to the industry for any real length of time, start to become blinded to themselves & are really stretching themselves in order to continually re-invent themselves - which, naturally, causes originality to go out the window.
Fresh faces - fresh talent - new ideas (hopefully innovative and original enough to surprise us with something actually worthwhile).


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## Kreij (Mar 4, 2011)

Nintendo President Satoru Iwata said this at his GDC keynote presentation [quoted from article] ...


> "Innovation," which he went on to define as the notion that if there is something considered impossible, then it should be made possible - an idea which he ended his keynote on, imploring the developers gathered in the audience to go and do.



IMO, again, the major publishers think that throwing money at a new idea or concept is the way to go. That is simply not true, and very risky.
If a new IP costs tens of  millions and it fails, they stop investing in new IP.
*This is a bad business strategy*
Invest moderately in new IP and throw it out there as proof of concept (ala Portal) and if it catches on, build on its success.


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## TAViX (Mar 4, 2011)

Innovation was and always will be the key to success. Only if you bring something different to the market you will have success. And is for both hardware of software. And I can give you only a few examples: 3DFx, Nintendo DS (was the first device mass produced to ever have a touchscreen), Nintendo 3DS (first to ever have a native 3D display without glasses), Nintendo Wii (first to use motion controler), etc,
So yeah, I take serious the advices and interviews of the ones from Nintendo. They know better than us how stuff need to work in order to have a successful product.


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 4, 2011)

TAViX said:


> Innovation was and always will be the key to success. Only if you bring something different to the market you will have success. And is for both hardware of software. And I can give you only a few examples: 3DFx, Nintendo DS (was the first device mass produced to ever have a touchscreen), Nintendo 3DS (first to ever have a native 3D display without glasses), Nintendo Wii (first to use motion controler), etc,
> So yeah, I take serious the advices and interviews of the ones from Nintendo. They know better than us how stuff need to work in order to have a successful product.



Nintendo have always been like this.  I remember when everyone had a SEGA MegaDrive (Genesis to you guys in the US  ) so Nintendo countered it with the SNES (Super Nintendo/Super Famicom) that featured 'Mode 7' scaling and rotating


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## erixx (Mar 4, 2011)

Every generation has it's uncertainities and unknowingities....






BTW: brilliant must see movie picture.


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 4, 2011)

erixx said:


> Every generation has it's uncertainities and unknowingities....
> 
> http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb52/The_Playlist/futureisunwritten.jpg
> 
> BTW: brilliant must see movie picture.



Bugger!  I'm at work so I can't see the pic


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## HalfAHertz (Mar 4, 2011)

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2821-Ludus-Florentis

According to them, PC gaming and in fact all forms of gaming are nearing a Renaissance like period. Think of the current situation as the calm before the storm - a storm of AWESOME.


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 4, 2011)

HalfAHertz said:


> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2821-Ludus-Florentis
> 
> According to them, PC gaming and in fact all forms of gaming are nearing a Renaissance like period. Think of the current situation as the calm before the storm - *a storm of AWESOME*.



I like it


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## phobias23 (Mar 4, 2011)

I disagree... Pc gaming can die. If some say that all is about money do you think AMD or Nvidia are gonna let that happen? No way those two gather lots of bucks from Gpu and the PC enthusiastics will be over.There will be no more need for great rigs and pc parts will be considered useless,unless for work. Pc gaming is what keeps alive the new tech. Games are produced in PC, so WTF are you going to replace PC games for a console in personal terms. Even if Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo bring new consoles PC hardware will jump again over them.

Is true that Consoles Companies have some "flag games" that didnt release for PC.
Microsoft is one of them and the main responsible for this... why could happen if Intel,Asus,AMD,Nvidia,Gigabyte amd some other companies start losing money cuz we are no longer playing on PC cuz Microsoft push us to buy consoles.
-Will be the 1st WW of the Companies.
I think that WE KEEP ALIVE THE PC ENTHUSIASTIC TECH ALIVE AND THAT GUYS KEEPS GIVING LOT OF MONEY.
BTW I hate playing 1PS with a console controller, nothing aim with more efficiency ant fast that a mouse!!!

oh I forgot about this. What for, is the ROG log on some MOBOS?????????????????????????????????


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## erixx (Mar 4, 2011)

Your Anime signature pics for sure keep me alive.... bravo!

Regarding the subject, if it has to die, let it die and move on... Your girlfriend, family, for sure will appreciate it... There is life outside the basement


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## KainXS (Mar 4, 2011)

I'm sure most of us were like






But PC Gaming Dying is really






shadedshu:shadedshu


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 4, 2011)

Dont worrys, at least BF3 will be DX11. Pitty about Crysis 2. after setting such a high benchmark with Cysis 1 its absaloutely pathetic that #2 will be DX9 only to start off with


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## phobias23 (Mar 5, 2011)

erixx said:


> Your Anime signature pics for sure keep me alive.... bravo!
> 
> Regarding the subject, if it has to die, let it die and move on... Your girlfriend, family, for sure will appreciate it... There is life outside the basement



I really enjoy ikkitousen draw.thanx!
In my case - my wife and my future son/daughter 
but no thanx, I LOVE PC


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## wahdangun (Mar 5, 2011)

Kreij said:


> No one knows what the next trend setting game will be until it's written and released.
> 
> In my humble opinion, PC (and console) gaming will not advance to the "next level" until two things occur.
> 1) Developers stop using physics for simple eye candy and make it change the gaming experience.
> ...



yeah, developer need to explore the APU power and since all CPU will be  APU, i bet 3 years from now we will all have  APU. and it will be stupid decision if developer not using it, especially us a  gamer. because we will use discrete GPU anyway


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## HalfAHertz (Mar 5, 2011)

wahdangun said:


> yeah, developer need to explore the APU power and since all CPU will be  APU, i bet 3 years from now we will all have  APU. and it will be stupid decision if developer not using it, especially us a  gamer. because we will use discrete GPU anyway



You mean just like in the PS3?  Joking aside the Cell CPU does act as the ancestor of the FPU because even if its SPEs lack 2/3-rds of the functionality of a modern GPU, it's essence is exactly what makes GPUs so awesome - programmable parallel processing units - the equivalents of a CUDA core or an ATi SP cluster. So looking at things from a different perspective, Sony was already ahead of the curve back in 2006 and we on the desktop side needed to do some catching up - if not in the performance department, then in the way we manage our resources. The xbox360 on the other side of course lacked any of these cool revolutionary features because any form of imagination Microsoft ever had, left with Bill Gates and all the other cool people who departed MS with him. So MS decided to go with brute force instead and added a triple core CPU instead.

*EDIT:* Not trying to start a flame here. I am in no way saying that the Xbox is a worst console. Both consoles are equally cool in their own way and are great at doing what they're supposed to be doing.


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## chris89 (Mar 5, 2011)

This is quite an intresting thread to be honest.

But have to agree mostly it's FPS's that are dieing down & becoming more simple, Yet Simulations, RTS's, Puzzel games etc are all doing great.

But One thing i have to say glad to see that people arn't continously moaning about Railworks addons on here  that appear on steam a lot of the time. Hence why i post screens from it on here, as made to feel more welcome for my choice of game 

Chris


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## ctrain (Mar 5, 2011)

If you still want a hardcore FPS then play Quake Live.

You will get your shit pushed in, it cuts no corners from years ago. Got 500 hours clocked.


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## chris89 (Mar 5, 2011)

Quake Live is fantastic.

For FPS's the only ones i mostly play now are Killing floor, RO, and soon to be RO: Heroes of stalingrad, which will be a great fps for pc.

CHris


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## HalfAHertz (Mar 5, 2011)

I've been getting down with AA3. It lacks contents but some of the maps are pretty good.


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## snuif09 (Mar 5, 2011)

AA3 is alot of fun to play.

You guys should check out Operation 7 aswell. one of the better free2play shooters out there.


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## Praetorian (Mar 7, 2011)

Imagine how PC gaming will be in let's say...10 years, when we would all have true 3D monitors ( like the screen from Nintendo 3DS). I foresee a good future for gaming.


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## yogurt_21 (Mar 7, 2011)

*looks at 2011 titles coming out
* counts them, over 50

pc gaming isn't going anywhere, console ports or not.


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## Praetorian (Mar 7, 2011)

yogurt_21 said:


> *looks at 2011 titles coming out
> * counts them, over 50
> 
> pc gaming isn't going anywhere, console ports or not.



How many are ports from those 50??


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## yogurt_21 (Mar 7, 2011)

Praetorian said:


> How many are ports from those 50??



irrelevant to the presence of pc gaming. you might wanna start a thread on quality

http://pc.ign.com/articles/114/1140196p1.html


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## Praetorian (Mar 7, 2011)

Low quality games on PC means also a kind of death for it...


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## erixx (Mar 7, 2011)

come on - it is not dead, but

1) some 'consolitis' illness
2) some 'grafix only' storyvoid games (crytec etc)
3) too much 'all ages' games (competing with 'Mamma's Wii' etc, CoD, uber-scripted, dumbed down helicopters, etc, arcade feeling...)
4) savaging of the 'modding' communties, DLC only, protectionism...
5) No love, no sex, no fresh air... Game developer is an established, boring, hypocrite JOB.
6) wrong business model, pirated from the movie industrie

Still alive, but bleeding... vision red... trapped... But you can 'vote' with your money, buy really good games, based on proper analysis, not PR fishnets.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Mar 7, 2011)

Praetorian said:


> Low quality games on PC means also a kind of death for it...



Tho i dont like the philosophy even the shittest port runs fine on mine, and with Antisotropy AA and everything else switched on or maxd, morpho AA plus 4x multisampleing AA all forced on in driver the pc versions still piss on the console ones dude thats why my ps3 folds only at min, i dont consider the 360 even capable of reasonable quality so wouldnt own one  and most games are enhanced at least a bit for pc. so it aint dieing g this bad boys rollin past the 720 or whatever and the ps4 il still game on the best tech i can


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## BumbleBee (Mar 7, 2011)

I don't think the PC has a single AAA exclusive this year. only a couple titles that are hardly system sellers. it can't be healthy for so many people to hinge success on one title.


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## ktr (Mar 7, 2011)

Only game I can think of this year is The Witcher 2.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Mar 7, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> AAA exclusive



i think that may be the real issue and reason for this death of pc gamein talk,
daft really, its natural to wana sell more n i dont blame them for that i just dont get the lack of options and stuff in ported games it dosnt sound to hard to have an external config booter either, as bad co 2 used or a better version of the crysis 2 demo config thing but for every port/game, surely easy to appease us if they tried??

plus loads / far too many people ONLY play shit games like bejewelled???? so they know nowt about pc gamein clearly..


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## btarunr (Mar 7, 2011)

PC gaming will live on. I simply don't buy into the "but console is 1/4 the price of a gaming PC" bullshit argument.

Look at it this way. You do already have a $300 PC to do your spreadsheets and write to mom. It has an empty PCI-E slot. Instead of paying $250 for a console, spend the same money on the best graphics card you can get for that money. You'll end up with a gaming platform that gives vastly superior graphics, can plug to your HDTV (almost every graphics card has HDMI these days), and comes with an infinitely superior game controller (your $10 keyboard and $5 mouse).


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## razaron (Mar 7, 2011)

PC gaming will never die.
If it does die it would be when some genius makes keyboard and mice for consoles. However that's basically a (uncustomizable) PC anyway, so it comes back to the fact that PC gaming will never die.

EDIT: Also I think I read somewhere awhile back, that Steam has the second highest number of sales for games only being topped by gamestop (I think) which also sells console games.


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## LifeOnMars (Mar 7, 2011)

btarunr said:


> PC gaming will live on. I simply don't buy into the "but console is 1/4 the price of a gaming PC" bullshit argument.
> 
> Look at it this way. You do already have a $300 PC to do your spreadsheets and write to mom. It has an empty PCI-E slot. Instead of paying $250 for a console, spend the same money on the best graphics card you can get for that money. You'll end up with a gaming platform that gives vastly superior graphics, can plug to your HDTV (almost every graphics card has HDMI these days), and comes with an infinitely superior game controller (your $10 keyboard and $5 mouse).



Only to find the PSU is a pile of poo, the processor massively bottlenecks the graphics card and really e-machines are not "all that" . Then begins the process of building your very own first rig and......wait, this sounds familiar D

I actually see PC gaming getting bigger, i think major shakeups with how software/games are supplied to the end user can get rid of piracy all together.


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## Praetorian (Mar 7, 2011)

In the end, if I start to think this through, the consoles are like MACs. Same as PCs (they have Mobo, CPU, GPU, RAM, HDD, etc) but they are NOT upgradeable or customizable. 
So here it is. 
The PC gaming wont die, the consoles will transform into PCs...


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## NinkobEi (Mar 7, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> I don't think the PC has a single AAA exclusive this year. only a couple titles that are hardly system sellers. it can't be healthy for so many people to hinge success on one title.



Star Wars Knights of the Republic, Diablo 3, Starcraft expansion. What qualifies as a AAA title?


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## BumbleBee (Mar 7, 2011)

I don't think consoles will ever be upgradeable. consumers like it simple.


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## Praetorian (Mar 7, 2011)

never say never 


Personally I would love to be able to change(exchange) the GPU in the console, to add more RAM, replace HDD, and so on.... (Making an analogy here, the format can be like the ones in laptops: MXM-B for GPU, ram, hdd, wi-fi card, and the rest that can be replace on that limited space  )


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## HalfAHertz (Mar 7, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> I don't think consoles will ever be upgradeable. consumers like it simple.



HA! Then you've obviously never seen the SEGA Mega Drive. 

You could upgrade it not once, but twice! 

Basic version:






Updated version with Sega CD and Sega 32x:




It also needed not 1 but 3 (three!) power adapters.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 7, 2011)

There are ports up and ports down. Ports up suck. Ports down are awesome. BC2 was a port up. Meaning it was made for consoles and ported to the PC. That kinda port sucks (Up port). Battlefield 3 will be made for the PC and ported to the console. (Down port). This is how it used to be and is ideal for the market.

So when talking about PC gaming and "exclusives" you have to keep this in mind.


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## BumbleBee (Mar 7, 2011)

Ninkobwi said:


> Star Wars Knights of the Republic, Diablo 3, Starcraft expansion. What qualifies as a AAA title?



Diablo III doesn't exactly have a release date. it's not PC exclusive.

forgot about Star Wars: The Old Republic. 

Star Wars: The Old Republic $300 million dollar budget would qualify as AAA lol


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## HalfAHertz (Mar 7, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> Diablo III doesn't exactly have a release date. it's not PC exclusive.
> 
> forgot about Star Wars: The Old Republic.
> 
> Star Wars: The Old Republic *$300 million dollar budget* would qualify as AAA lol



OMG! :O 

Ok would be game designers, rule number one of any studio should be this:

1) If your budget is larger than that of a top blockbuster Hollywood movie, then you've already failed horribly...


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 7, 2011)

btarunr said:


> PC gaming will live on. I simply don't buy into the "but console is 1/4 the price of a gaming PC" bullshit argument.
> 
> Look at it this way. You do already have a $300 PC to do your spreadsheets and write to mom. It has an empty PCI-E slot. Instead of paying $250 for a console, spend the same money on the best graphics card you can get for that money. You'll end up with a gaming platform that gives vastly superior graphics, can plug to your HDTV (almost every graphics card has HDMI these days), and comes with an infinitely superior game controller (your $10 keyboard and $5 mouse).



But the console has a great selection of games and more exclusives.  I would hate to have not been able to play the likes of Uncharted (1 & 2), God Of War III, Gears of War II, Halo 3, Castlevania - Lords Of Shadow and Heavy Rain.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 7, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> But the console has a great selection of games and more exclusives.  I would hate to have not been able to play the likes of Uncharted (1 & 2), God Of War III, Gears of War II, Halo 3, Castlevania - Lords Of Shadow and Heavy Rain.



None of those games would be worth building a PC for and those "exclusives" span 2 systems. Again there is nothing the console offers that a PC doesn't do better and like I said there are different kinds of ports.


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 7, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> None of those games would be worth building a PC for and those "exclusives" span 2 systems. Again there is nothing the console offers that a PC doesn't do better.



But I like playing all kinds of genre of game, not just FPS.  So console gaming suits me more.  That doesn't mean I don't get tempted back every once in a while with games like Battlefield 3, that work beautifully on a PC (mouse & kb combo).

You're an FPS fan, so the likes of God Of War probably don't appeal to you.  But for such an old console (the PS3), the graphics are amazing.

Lets be honest, is any single game worth spending in the region of £1000 on to play?


----------



## BumbleBee (Mar 7, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> None of those games would be worth building a PC for and those "exclusives" span 2 systems. Again there is nothing the console offers that a PC doesn't do better and like I said there are different kinds of ports.



in your opinion.

I think some PC Gamers have been playing the same titles and genres over and over they have forgotten what gaming is really about.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Mar 7, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> I think some PC Gamers have been playing the same titles and genres over and over they have forgotten what gaming is really about.



i hear that my m8 still on covert ops every night that or COD 2(n only cos hes good at 2) or battlefield vietnam ,he is easily pleased lol

for something a bit different get the next batman, im not normally into them but the last on pc with hybrid physx n morpho looked and played amazein n was worth the effort i think its wise to have a go of something diff now n again WOW being the one exception id name(dont do it.).


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 7, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> in your opinion.
> 
> I think some PC Gamers have been playing the same titles and genres over and over they have forgotten what gaming is really about.



I have to agree.  Consoles offer a far wider variety of games and this is what I like about them.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 7, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> But I like playing all kinds of genre of game, not just FPS.  So console gaming suits me more.  That doesn't mean I don't get tempted back every once in a while with games like Battlefield 3, that work beautifully on a PC (mouse & kb combo).
> 
> You're an FPS fan, so the likes of God Of War probably don't appeal to you.  But for such an old console (the PS3), the graphics are amazing.
> 
> Lets be honest, is any single game worth spending in the region of £1000 on to play?


 I put in almost 600 hours into Quake 3. Can you say that about God of War? So yeah....some games are worth the investment.



BumbleBee said:


> in your opinion.
> 
> I think some PC Gamers have been playing the same titles and genres over and over they have forgotten what gaming is really about.



Excellent troll! You almost got me! 



HookeyStreet said:


> I have to agree.  Consoles offer a far wider variety of games and this is what I like about them.



More variety? LOL EPIC!


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Mar 7, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I put in almost 600 hours into Quake 3. Can you say that about God of War? So yeah....some games are worth the investment.



your almost validating what hes sayin their, you do play other games too dont ya lol


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 7, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I put in almost 600 hours into Quake 3. Can you say that about God of War? So yeah....some games are worth the investment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



God Of War isn't that type of game.  But yeah, I've spent plenty of time on other various games.  You're talking about multiplayer.  Not everybody only plays MP.  Some enjoy SP campaign modes and games with incredible stories.  Games like Uncharted keep you hooked until the end.



theoneandonlymrk said:


> your almost validating what hes sayin their, you do play other games too dont ya lol



Most hardcore PC gamers ONLY play FPS'.  Hence the console being evil because FPS' don't play aswell on them.


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 7, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> But I like playing all kinds of genre of game, not just FPS.  So console gaming suits me more.  That doesn't mean I don't get tempted back every once in a while with games like Battlefield 3, that work beautifully on a PC (mouse & kb combo).
> 
> You're an FPS fan, so the likes of God Of War probably don't appeal to you.  But for such an old console (the PS3), the graphics are amazing.
> 
> Lets be honest, is any single game worth spending in the region of £1000 on to play?



On the PC you can play more genres than on consoles, you can play all the genres. FPS, RTS and RPGs are better suited for the PC, actually proper FPS/RTS can NOT be played on consoles. In the last 5 years, we didn't get proper FPSs, because the FPS genre has been dumbed down so that they can be played on consoles. I don't remember the last multi-platform game that supposed a challlenge. In reality that's what this thread is about, most of the games are so dumbed down that in a sense PC gaming is dying, although we still get the games and look far better. Gameplay is completely broken.

Also, you don't have to spend that much money. Not even close, a $100 graphics card on any PC built/bought in the last 5 years is more than enough to produce better graphics than a console. And let's be honest, everyone has a PC, for work, school, mailing...(and most people upgrade every 3 years or so even if they only use it for surfing and office) so PC gaming costs $100*. Even with that you get better graphics and much better functionality. FPS, RTS, etc play with kb+mouse and for the rest use the controler if that's what you like...

* That's only the start, because how many games do you play? I know that I used to get 10 games or so every year (not anymore because the new ones suck, ports) and at $10 per game (typical difference in price between console and PC games), that ammounts to $100-per year. Add the Xbox Live fee and yeah, sorry but if you are a true gamer the PC is FAR CHEAPER.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 7, 2011)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> your almost validating what hes sayin their, you do play other games too dont ya lol


 Of course. I enjoy all kinds of games. FPS is my favorite however.



HookeyStreet said:


> God Of War isn't that type of game.  But yeah, I've spent plenty of time on other various games.  You're talking about multiplayer.  Not everybody only plays MP.  Some enjoy SP campaign modes and games with incredible stories.  Games like Uncharted keep you hooked until the end.
> 
> 
> 
> Most hardcore PC gamers ONLY play FPS'.  Hence the console being evil because FPS' don't play aswell on them.


 Thats not true at all. A lot of people enjoy RTS also which is another genera PCs own in. But you guys were talking about innovative? How is Uncharted a blatant Tomb Raider rip off innovative? God of War? Tomb Raider with swords. Please these are just third person shooters and ARE NOT NEW. Nothing at all is innovative about them.

Now what I find hypocritical is a LOT of console owners talk about innovation and yet scorn the Wii. Thats what I find funny. Something truly innovative and everyone hates on it. 



Benetanegia said:


> On the PC you can play more genres than on consoles, you can play all the genres. FPS, RTS and RPGs are better suited for the PC, actually proper FPS/RTS can NOT be played on consoles. In the last 5 years, we didn't get proper FPSs, because the FPS genre has been dumbed down so that they can be played on consoles. I don't remember the last multi-platform game that supposed a challlenge. In reality that's what this thread is about, most of the games are so dumbed down that in a sense PC gaming is dying, although we still get the games and look far better. Gameplay is completely broken.
> 
> Also, you don't have to spend that much money. Not even close, a $100 graphics card on any PC built/bought in the last 5 years is more than enough to produce better graphics than a console. And let's be honest, everyone has a PC, for work, school, mailing...(and most people upgrade every 3 years or so even if they only use it for surfing and office) so PC gaming costs $100*. Even with that you get better graphics and much better functionality. FPS, RTS, etc play with kb+mouse and for the rest use the controler if that's what you like...
> 
> * That's only the start, because how many games do you play? I know that I used to get 10 games or so every year (not anymore because the new ones suck, ports) and at $10 per game, that ammounts to $100-per year. Add the Xbox Live fee and yeah, sorry but if you are a true gamer the PC is FAR CHEAPER.



Benetanegia and I agree. Now you know the shit is serious.


----------



## Praetorian (Mar 7, 2011)

I heard that motion sensing control is coming to PC...
They are already on consoles, but I was curious, except Wii, are there any good/interesting games worth buying for PS3/Xbox360??


----------



## BumbleBee (Mar 7, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> On the PC you can play more genres than on consoles, you can play all the genres. FPS, RTS and RPGs are better suited for the PC, actually proper FPS/RTS can NOT be played on consoles. In the last 5 years, we didn't get proper FPSs, because the FPS genre has been dumbed down so that they can be played on consoles. I don't remember the last multi-platform game that supposed a challlenge. In reality that's what this thread is about, most of the games are so dumbed down that in a sense PC gaming is dying, although we still get the games and look far better. Gameplay is completely broken.
> 
> Also, you don't have to spend that much money. Not even close, a $100 graphics card on any PC built/bought in the last 5 years is more than enough to produce better graphics than a console. And let's be honest, everyone has a PC, for work, school, mailing...(and most people upgrade every 3 years or so even if they only use it for surfing and office) so PC gaming costs $100*. Even with that you get better graphics and much better functionality. FPS, RTS, etc play with kb+mouse and for the rest use the controler if that's what you like...
> 
> * That's only the start, because how many games do you play? I know that I used to get 10 games or so every year (not anymore because the new ones suck, ports) and at $10 per game, that ammounts to $100-per year. Add the Xbox Live fee and yeah, sorry but if you are a true gamer the PC is FAR CHEAPER.



Role Playing Games have been on console a lot longer. First Person Shooters are now possible because of Golden Eye 007 and Halo: Combat Evolved.

my Corsair Dominator kit costs more than my XBOX 360. Microsoft and Sony are price cutting again this year. 

XBOX Live only costs $5 a month. Playstation Network is free. 

don't forget about the rental and used game market.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 7, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> Role Playing Games have been on console a lot longer. First Person Shooters are now possible on console because of Golden Eye 007 and Halo: Combat Evolved.
> 
> my Corsair Dominator kit cost more than my XBOX 360. Microsoft and Sony are price cutting again this year.
> 
> ...



RPG has been on the console longer lol wut? So much fail my mind cannot comprehend.


----------



## erocker (Mar 7, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> RPG has been on the console longer lol wut? So much fail my mind cannot comprehend.



Considering gaming consoles have existed just as long, if not longer than PC's, it is correct. I guess people can't think back before the 1990's.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 7, 2011)

erocker said:


> Considering gaming consoles have existed just as long, if not longer than PC's, it is correct. I guess people can't think back before the 1990's.



It is incorrect. Im thinking more mid 70's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_role-playing_video_games


----------



## erocker (Mar 7, 2011)

A mainframe is not a personal computer.


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 7, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> I disagree. Role Playing Games have been on console a lot longer. First Person Shooters are now possible on console because of Golden Eye 007 and Halo: Combat Evolved.



How long they've been present is irrelevant. many RPGs are much better on PC. i.e Diablo, Elder Scrolls, etc. I hate Final Fantasy so avoid mentioning it. It may have started on consoles but it got better on PC. Also I think many old console RPGs were originated or were also released for the Apple II so...



> my Corsair Dominator kit cost more than my XBOX 360. Microsoft and Sony are price cutting again this year.



And who's fault is that? You can have quality 4 GB kits for $40 and 2 GB kits for $25 that's more than enough.

If I had to build a computer similar to mine right now it would cost me $400. I play everything maxed out. BTW the price includes the GTX460, a 3.6 Ghz quad (OCed) and 4GB of ram. Go check latest games' recommended requirements.



> XBOX Live cost $5 a month and Playstation Network is free.


That's $60 then plus if you buy 5 games that's another $50, per year. Add the price of the console and we are getting very close to the $400 mark I mentioned above...



> don't forget about the rental and used game market.



Irrelevant, you have the same for PC and guess what? It's cheaper too.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 7, 2011)

erocker said:


> A mainframe is not a personal computer.





> One of the earliest computer role-playing game (CRPG) on a microcomputer was Dungeon n Dragons, written by P. Trefonas and published by CLOAD (1980).



Feel better now? Still before the console had one in 1982.


----------



## erocker (Mar 7, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Feel better now? Still before the console had one in 1982.



Well, in my opinion, PC's from that era were nothing but gaming consoles. Given that, PC's and consoles in the home have almost always existed together. Many people speak as if gaming consoles are this new thing destroying the PC. Nonsense.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 7, 2011)

erocker said:


> Well, in my opinion, PC's from that era were nothing but gaming consoles. Given that, PC's and consoles in the home have almost always existed together. Many people speak as if gaming consoles are this new thing destroying the PC. Nonsense.



Consoles are not. I agree there. Its the one size fits all marketing that is destroying it. PC games are different then console games. The fact they are merging the two is killing not only innovation but over all quality.


----------



## erocker (Mar 7, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Consoles are not. I agree there. Its the one size fits all marketing that is destroying it. PC games are different then console games. The fact they are merging the two is killing not only innovation but over all quality.



I remember being a kid and wishing that we could get games on multiple platforms. My dreams are finally coming true!! 

This is what is needed from the devs in regards to the PC user for myself:
Higher resolution textures
More graphical settings
AA support
AF support
Online systems that work well with the PC.


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 7, 2011)

I don't really care about innovation.  I just want a good solid game to kill a few hours with.  This is why console gaming suits my life style more now than if I had a gaming PC.


----------



## BumbleBee (Mar 7, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> How long they've been present is irrelevant. many RPGs are much better on PC. i.e Diablo, Elder Scrolls, etc. I hate Final Fantasy so avoid mentioning it. It may have started on consoles but it got better on PC. Also I think many old console RPGs were originated or were also released for the Apple II so...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't even know many people that even have a Desktop PC anymore and if you don't already own one $400 isn't going to get you far. I have close to 40 titles and paid less than $29.99 for most of them.


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 7, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Consoles are not. I agree there. Its the one size fits all marketing that is destroying it. PC games are different then console games. The fact they are merging the two is killing not only innovation but over all quality.





OK, this is the third time we agree today. The world is doomed! Run for the hills everybody!

No, seriously. That's the problem, games well suited for one platform will simply suck on the other. Taking FPS for example, good and fast aiming used to be a requirement for FPS, but nowadays shooting feels like an afterthought, it's dull and almost pointless. 

It's as if developers were going like "ok, let's create all these cool scripted events and animations, let's add some cool cutscenes. You know what would be cool? What if we put one contextual melee button and when they press it many different cool things happen... and we could also do bla bla... ok finished, but I think I forgot about something... oh omg shooting I forgot shooting!"


----------



## Praetorian (Mar 7, 2011)

But I miss PS2 times, when mostly all PC games were ported to consoles, not vice-versa like today, hehe!


----------



## erocker (Mar 7, 2011)

Praetorian said:


> when mostly all PC games were ported to consoles



I don't remember that time at all.


----------



## btarunr (Mar 7, 2011)

LifeOnMars said:


> Only to find the PSU is a pile of poo, the processor massively bottlenecks the graphics card and really e-machines are not "all that".



That 350~400W standard PSU and the Core 2 Duo inside that $300 PC is sufficient enough to get that $250 graphics card to still deliver better graphics than a console, and at higher resolutions. Look up the power consumption figures of "sweet-spot" graphics cards after the HD 5600 series, look at their minimum typical PSU requirements. 

You can have a better gaming experience than on an Xbox360, at even 2/3 its price, by installing a sub-$200 graphics card in a typical PC.



HookeyStreet said:


> But the console has a great selection of games and more exclusives.



Because there's a bigger market there, and why? Because people are dumb enough to spend $250 on a console, than $150 on a graphics card.


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 7, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> I have close to 40 titles and paid less than $29.99 for most of them.



Like I said that's irrelevant. I rent most of them (2 euros for 3 days) and since they are over in 4-6 hours (SP) I almost always end up wishing they would offer the 1 euro for 1 day they used to offer.

I also regurlarly buy from Steam sales and have plenty of games (probably more than 40) that I bought for 2-5 euros.

So what's your point again?


----------



## Mr McC (Mar 7, 2011)

erocker said:


> Well, in my opinion, PC's from that era were nothing but gaming consoles. Given that, PC's and consoles in the home have almost always existed together. Many people speak as if gaming consoles are this new thing destroying the PC. Nonsense.



I can accept that Spectrums and C64's were first and foremost "gaming consoles", and before that there was Defender on the Atari...


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 7, 2011)

This thread is starting to hit critical mass.


----------



## LifeOnMars (Mar 7, 2011)

btarunr said:


> That 350~400W standard PSU and the Core 2 Duo inside that $300 PC is sufficient enough to get that $250 graphics card to still deliver better graphics than a console, and at higher resolutions. Look up the power consumption figures of "sweet-spot" graphics cards after the HD 5600 series, look at their minimum typical PSU requirements.
> 
> You can have a better gaming experience than on an Xbox360, at even 2/3 its price, by installing a sub-$200 graphics card in a typical PC.
> 
> ...



Sorry BT, you missed the fact I was conveying a past experience from myself with a hint of sarcastic irony, it's how I got into PC gaming  I agree, prebuilt systems are better specced nowadays. 

EDIT - Mailman - PC Gaming will die as we are all too busy chatting about the issue on here rather than playing the actual "PC" games


----------



## BumbleBee (Mar 7, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> Like I said that's irrelevant. I rent most of them (2 euros for 3 days) and since they are over in 4-6 hours (SP) I almost always end up wishing they would offer the 1 euro for 1 day they used to offer.
> 
> I also regurlarly buy from Steam sales and have plenty of games (probably more than 40) that I bought for 2-5 euros.
> 
> So what's your point again?



there is no need for attitude. I wasn't attacking you.

I don't recall the PC having a rental or used game market.

where is the value for a consumer when he/she has to pay more for ports and lack of exclusive titles. if I didn't use my PC for other activities or better yet if the PC was a console I think it would be decimated by Sony and Piracy like the Dreamcast.


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 7, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> there is no need for attitude. I wasn't attacking you.
> 
> I don't recall the PC having a rental or used game market.
> 
> where is the value for a consumer when he/she has to pay more for ports and lack of exclusive titles. if I didn't use my PC for other activities or better yet if the PC was a console I think it would be decimated by Sony and Piracy like the Dreamcast.



It's not attitude. You are denying the fact that PC games tend to be far cheaper and considering Steam sales and that PC games can be rented too*, at least here in my city, I think that is more than clear that PC games are cheaper. The industry does not live from rented/second hand games either.

*Yeah maybe Gamestop and the like, don't. Well, they don't even sell PC games in many places (and thare's only one or two shelves on the ones that do), but that only demostrates the point of this thread. IF PC gaimng is dying or in a downhill, why is that? It's not because it costs more, it's not because of lack of customer interest and it's not because of piracy. What then? A mix of things, we all know the recipe...


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 7, 2011)

Consoles are good for family fun also.  This is something that a PC doesn't do well.  This is why the games console has always had a place within the living room and will continue to do so.  It's simple, no fuss entertainment.


----------



## BumbleBee (Mar 8, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> It's not attitude. You are denying the fact that PC games tend to be far cheaper and considering Steam sales and that PC games can be rented too*, at least here in my city, I think that is more than clear that PC games are cheaper. The industry does not live from rented/second hand games either.
> 
> *Yeah maybe Gamestop and the like, don't. Well, they don't even sell PC games in many places (and thare's only one or two shelves on the ones that do), but that only demostrates the point of this thread. IF PC gaimng is dying or in a downhill, why is that? It's not because it costs more, it's not because of lack of customer interest and it's not because of piracy. What then? A mix of things, we all know the recipe...



terrible sales, piracy, high cost (hardware), ports, online cheating, bugs, no exclusives, system requirements, backwards compatibility issues. 

look at the increase in piracy over the years.







if piracy can be eliminated publishers can start developing exclusive titles for the PC and it can be a viable platform.


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> Consoles are good for family fun also.  This is something that a PC doesn't do well.  This is why the games console has always had a place within the living room and will continue to do so.  It's simple, no fuss entertainment.



But that's again the problem of publishers not supporting the PC and not the problem of the platform. There's absolutely nothing the console does that the PC couldn't. We used to be able to play sports games on the PC just the same way as in consoles (up to 8 different players with various posibilities for input, including whichever keys on the keyboard you wanted), fighting games too and racing games had a split screen mode. Why don't we get that now? If those things have ever been posible, it's now* and we don't get them.

There's Ultrastar and Frets on Fire for PC, incredibly good open source alternatives to SingStar and Guitar Hero, but we don't get the real thing. Again why?

There's simply no excuse. The family could gather around a HTPC hooked to a TV and a buch of controlers just as well as they do with consoles. The only exception (until soon) was the Wii.

* Technlogically more advanced. You can hook the PC to the TV. USB allows for gazillions of inputs at the same time. And a long list of etc.




BumbleBee said:


> terrible sales, piracy, high cost (hardware), ports, online cheating, bugs, no exclusives, system requirements, backwards compatibility issues.
> 
> look at the increase in piracy over the years.
> 
> ...



Piracy is not the problem. There is no more piracy now than 5 years ago and there's definately not more piracy now than in the 90's. Piracy is not the problem, it's the excuse.

Those numbers are totally skewed and usually only based on Pirate Bay and a bunch of other sites. Those numbers only demostrate that PB became more popular, and ironically, the downloads started to skyrocket when PB was mentioned in the news all around the globe. Funny.


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> terrible sales, piracy, high cost (hardware), ports, online cheating, bugs, no exclusives, system requirements, backwards compatibility issues.
> 
> look at the increase in piracy over the years.
> 
> ...



I think it's too late for that anyway.  There has got to be more households worldwide with consoles than those with PCs that are capable of running recent games.  Game devs know this.  Console gaming is BIG money!  Whereas PC gaming has slowed down over the past few years.  Which isn't something I'm pleased to say.


----------



## Praetorian (Mar 8, 2011)

I don't know, but I always thought that the PC gaming and Console gaming to be completely different, and I mean when you'd say console you'd say PSP, Nintendo DS, maybe Wii...


----------



## KingPing (Mar 8, 2011)

Console gaming are more likely to die first than PC gaming, in my opinion, if people prefer console gaming because it's easier than PC gaming, then they will prefer onlive because it's even easier than console gaming, and cheaper, it's only matter of time. Mobile devices are becoming more and more powerful, why buy a console when you can play in your phone with HDMI output (not yet but it will happen). Of course if you are a hardcore console gamer you are not going to agree with that, because you will never play God of War, or Killzone, etc on a phone, neither would i, but the money goes where the casual gamer goes. 

 I have a 360, a PS3, and my PC, and to be honest i see more variety of games genres in PC, not only that but i see and evolution in graphics and in gameplay, don't look at AAA titles, they hardly innovate ( i agree with uncharted being a ripoff of tomb raider, a very good ripoff though). Look at indie games in PC (Gemini Rue, Amnesia, Red Orchesta 2, World of tank (i love that bastard)), you like RTS, try Shogun 2, and a lot more.


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> But that's again the problem of publishers not supporting the PC and not the problem of the platform. There's absolutely nothing the console does that the PC couldn't. We used to be able to play sports games on the PC just the same way as in consoles (up to 8 different players with various posibilities for input, including whichever keys on the keyboard you wanted), fighting games too and racing games had a split screen mode. Why don't we get that now? If those things have ever been posible, it's now* and we don't get them.
> 
> There's Ultrastar and Frets on Fire for PC, incredibly good open source alternatives to SingStar and Guitar Hero, but we don't get the real thing. Again why?
> 
> ...



But the average family doesn't know how to hook a PC up to a TV, download mulitple drivers and patches THEN game............if their hardware is good enough.........which in most cases, it isn't.

Most families prefer to gather around the Wii, get their little ones to pop the disc in, that is pretty much guaranteed to run, sit back and enjoy some hassle free (most of the time) gaming.



KingPing said:


> Console gaming are more likely to die first than PC gaming, in my opinion, if people prefer console gaming because it's easier than PC gaming, then they will prefer onlive because it's even easier than console gaming, and cheaper, it's only matter of time. Mobile devices are becoming more and more powerful, why buy a console when you can play in your phone with HDMI output (not yet but it will happen). Of course if you are a hardcore console gamer you are not going to agree with that, because you will never play God of War, or Killzone, etc on a phone, neither would i, but the money goes where the casual gamer goes.
> 
> I have a 360, a PS3, and my PC, and to be honest i see more variety of games genres in PC, not only that but i see and evolution in graphics and in gameplay, don't look at AAA titles, they hardly innovate ( i agree with uncharted being a ripoff of tomb raider, a very good ripoff though). Look at indie games in PC (Gemini Rue, Amnesia, Red Orchesta 2, World of tank (i love that bastard)), you like RTS, try Shogun 2, and a lot more.



Nah.  Gaming on mobile devices such as phones and iPads is getting more popular.  But I don't think it will surpass real console gaming.

PS: The Tomb Raider franchise has become a joke.  Uncharted took the idea of Tomb Raider and improved it.



Praetorian said:


> I don't know, but I always thought that the PC gaming and Console gaming to be completely different, and I mean when you'd say console you'd say PSP, Nintendo DS, maybe Wii...



The PSP & DS are handheld consoles.  The Wii, 360 and PS3 are all classed as games consoles.


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> But the average family doesn't know how to hook a PC up to a TV, download mulitple drivers and patches THEN game............if their hardware is good enough.........which in most cases, it isn't.
> 
> Most families prefer to gather around the Wii, get their little ones to pop the disc in, that is pretty much guaranteed to run, sit back and enjoy some hassle free (most of the time) gaming.



Those are the typical myths about PC gaming, along with piracy, costs more and all that crap.

You don't need the latest drivers most of the times. They are only required if you want those extra few fps or if you have dual cards etc. It's not so difficult to update the drivers anyway and nowadays it's almost automatic. Go to the page and click on autodetect your hardware 99% of the times it works flawlessly*. I don't know the details but consoles need firmware updates too.

Every game that I've owned in the last 3 years autoupdates to the latest version, even more so if you buy it from Steam. Many console games need patches too. That's a moot point.

In the PC (Steam) starting a game is far easier than on consoles, you don't even have to look for the CD and get up from your sit, no one needs to. gaming is just 1 double-click away from you.

* My 83 year old grandma learned to use the PC and do that kind of things, so come on...


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## KingPing (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> Nah.  Gaming on mobile devices such as phones and iPads is getting more popular.  But I don't think it will surpass real console gaming.



 Casual gamers don't care about real console gaming, the same as they don't care about real PC gaming, and there are far more casual gamers in console than in PC


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## BumbleBee (Mar 8, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> Those are the typical myths about PC gaming, along with piracy, costs more and all that crap.
> 
> You don't need the latest drivers most of the times. They are only required if you want those extra few fps or if you have dual cards etc. It's not so difficult to update the drivers anyway and nowadays it's almost automatic. Go to the page and click on autodetect your hardware 99% of the times it works flawlessly. I don't know the details but consoles need firmware updates too.
> 
> ...



15 years from now what happens when you want to play The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim but can't because Valve is out of business? in some instances it's quicker to take a 5 minute drive to Gamestop because the Steam servers can bog down. a physical copy stands a better chance at surviving the test of time.


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## Benetanegia (Mar 8, 2011)

KingPing said:


> Casual gamers don't care about real console gaming, the same as they don't care about real PC gaming, and there are far more casual gamers in console than in PC



Yup, that's true. IMO consoles can say goodbye to the casual gamers, which are the mayority right now. I said that many posts ago, there's going to be a casual market (Tablets/phones) and a hardcore market (PC). Nothing in the middle.

* That thanks to the wireless display technologies would be able to be anywhere in the house and display to any TV or monitor you wanted to.



BumbleBee said:


> 15 years from now what happens when you want to play The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim but can't because Valve is out of business? in some instances it's quicker to take a 5 minute drive to Gamestop because the Steam servers can bog down. a physical copy stands a better chance at surviving the test of time.



I don't want to waste time speculating about that specific scenario. Gamestop will go out of bussiness a lot sooner than Valve. And IF they went out of bussiness it would be as easy as changing a line of code and make it posible to play even MP games in "offline" mode (no need to contact Steam servers, only servers hosting the games). The community would do the rest, like distributing the files. That's somehing that PC crowd is very used to, but I understand you may not know this given your gaming habts.

15 years from now it's also highly probable that Skyrim is FREE and opens source, as has been the case with previous TES games. Anoter thing that is very common in the PC. We get a lot of free stuff when it's not "marketable" anymore.


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## BumbleBee (Mar 8, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> Yup, that's true. IMO consoles can say goodbye to the casual gamers, which are the mayority right now. I said that many posts ago, there's going to be a casual market (Tablets/phones) and a hardcore market (PC). Nothing in the middle.
> 
> * That thanks to the wireless display technologies would be able to be anywhere in the house and display to any TV or monitor you wanted to.
> 
> ...



I am not saying Valve will go out of business in 15 years. hypothetical situation. what are you going to do keep it on your hard drive for 15 years? oh you mean piracy 

my gaming habits?


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## Benetanegia (Mar 8, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> I am not saying Valve will go out of business in 15 years. hypothetical situation. what are you going to do keep it on your hard drive for 15 years? oh you mean piracy
> 
> my gaming habits?



Actually I do have the files of all my Steam* games in an external drive, along with all the drivers and certain programs like Open Office. Easy to intall whenever and wherever I need to. Considering the rate at which HDDs grow it's not going to be a problem, don't worry. I still have folders containing stuff 10 years old and have no intention of deleting it. Mainly because I have things I do not want to delete and I don't want to go through the nightmare of selecting what could and what could not be deleted...

I don't mean piracy. If a company goes bankrupt, either another one takes it's IPs** or they release them for FREE. There's plenty of free games out there because of that reason, available for download from Fileplanet and the likes.

Habits as in you clearly prefer consoles. By your commnets its pretty clear you know very little about PC gaming.

* Well the ones that are worth a damn. There's plenty of multi-platform crap that I bought just because of the name and because it was on sale.
** And with them the responsability to support them.


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## CDdude55 (Mar 8, 2011)

AltecV1 said:


> both pc and console gaming will become obsolete and streaming services will take over(onlive etc.) once the broadband connections are advanced enough



Agreed, eventually having actual physical media is going to slowly drift away and mostly everything with be streamed including games. But as mentioned the internet standard needs to go up for such a thing to happen, we are already seeing the slow death of places like blockbuster with the rise of Netfix's popularity, moving forward i do think that something like Onlive eventually take over.


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

Burying your head in the sand and denying that PC gaming is on the decline is just plain stupid!


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## Praetorian (Mar 8, 2011)

PC gaming is dying, but definitely is not the fault of piracy like some claims.
I mean look at NintendoDS. The game sales for it are booming, even if it's the most pirated console ever. There are even legit companies that sale adapters to play pirated games, haha!


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## BumbleBee (Mar 8, 2011)

handhelds have a problem with piracy but they also sell a lot of units.


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## BumbleBee (Mar 8, 2011)

Praetorian said:


> PC gaming is dying, but definitely is not the fault of piracy like some claims.
> I mean look at NintendoDS. The game sales for it are booming, even if it's the most pirated console ever. There are even legit companies that sale adapters to play pirated games, haha!



people are not buying games which means the returns are smaller and if publishers want to support the platform they have to cut cost by porting. porting a title means more people are going to pirate on top of the existing piracy.

I think publishers will eventually say "forget it. console ports are not worth it anymore."


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

Praetorian said:


> PC gaming is dying, but definitely is not the fault of piracy like some claims.
> I mean look at NintendoDS. The game sales for it are booming, even if it's the most pirated console ever. There are even legit companies that sale adapters to play pirated games, haha!



Piracy on the PC doesn't help the matter.  Mainly because it is so easy to run a backup on a PC.  Whereas it is harder to run a backup on a console because they require modification which some do not understand (I'm not including myself it that statement  ).


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## Mr McC (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> Piracy on the PC doesn't help the matter.  Mainly because it is so easy to run a backup on a PC.  Whereas it is harder to run a backup on a console because they require modification which some do not understand (I'm not including myself it that statement  ).



It is not a question of understanding the modification process, but rather of having access to somebody who does: in Spain this service is readily available and I assure you that consoles suffer just as much piracy as pc's, if not more. I assume that finding somebody with the know-how is easy in just about any part of the world and, failing that, the Internet will inevitably offer a number of highly detailed guides. Piracy has always been used as an excuse by company's who wish to focus their attention on the console market, where they can save on development costs and presumably achieve greater profits.



BumbleBee said:


> I think publishers will eventually say "forget it. console ports are not worth it anymore."



Why would they do that? It's enough to port the game and release a DX11 patch and people will pay for it. Piracy figures do not represent lost sales and while sales are to be made I think that you will find that most companies will endeavour to form a part of those sales.


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## BumbleBee (Mar 8, 2011)

PC Gamers are quick to point a finger at everybody but themselves. PC Gamers destroyed they're own platform.


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## Mr McC (Mar 8, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> http://i56.tinypic.com/2cdlcz.png
> 
> PC Gamers are quick to point a finger at everybody but themselves. PC Gamers destroyed they're own platform.



As far as I'm aware, "my own" platform has not been destroyed yet, at least I play on it every single day. Considering that I don't pirate games, in what way have I contributed to the destruction of this platform? Moreover, who released the figures you are publishing and to what end? I know very few people who own an X-Box that hasn't been "chipped", and similar services are available for each and every console. Do you really believe that console gaming offers companies higher possibilities of avoiding piracy?


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## Benetanegia (Mar 8, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> http://i56.tinypic.com/2cdlcz.png
> 
> PC Gamers are quick to point a finger at everybody but themselves. PC Gamers destroyed they're own platform.



Those numbers mean nothing. All PC pirates download their own games. Most console pirates ask their PC pirate friends to download the games or they buy them from bootleggers* and they copy the CD for all their console pirate friends.

Also we have to ask ourselves who released those numbers and what is their real interest.

* I think it's the correct term for people who sell pirated copies on the street?


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## Praetorian (Mar 8, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> PC Gamers are quick to point a finger at everybody but themselves. PC Gamers destroyed they're own platform.



This is kinda hypo statement.


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## HalfAHertz (Mar 8, 2011)

Hey check this out. Seems MS is gathering people for the next gen Xbox. So Sony will be forced to produce a PS4 and consoles will catch up to(or most likely surpass) PC performance thus bringing more eye candy goodness and happiness for all the children of the world! RAingowz and unicornz yeyyy!


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

Mr McC said:


> It is not a question of understanding the modification process, but rather of having access to somebody who does: in Spain this service is readily available and I assure you that consoles suffer just as much piracy as pc's, if not more. I assume that finding somebody with the know-how is easy in just about any part of the world and, failing that, the Internet will inevitably offer a number of highly detailed guides. Piracy has always been used as an excuse by company's who wish to focus their attention on the console market, where they can save on development costs and presumably achieve greater profits.



I know all of this m8.  But what I meant to say is that console gamers that don't understand the modding process are more cautious when it comes to modifying their consoles.  Whereas no irreversable modification has to be done to a PC for it to run backups.

Console software is pirated like crazy....but the console market still has far more legit customers.  Unlike the PC gaming society.

I also agree that game companies blame piracy for everything, when this is clearly not true.



Mr McC said:


> As far as I'm aware, "my own" platform has not been destroyed yet, at least I play on it every single day. Considering that I don't pirate games, in what way have I contributed to the destruction of this platform? Moreover, who released the figures you are publishing and to what end? I know very few people who own an X-Box that hasn't been "chipped", and similar services are available for each and every console. Do you really believe that console gaming offers companies higher possibilities of avoiding piracy?



Are you talking about the old XBOX?  Because the 360 doesn't require 'chipping' .


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## Benetanegia (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> Console software is pirated like crazy....but the console market still has far more legit customers.  Unlike the PC gaming society.



But that's what we are discussing on this thread. If they only release console games and then port them to the PC, it's obvious they will sell more on consoles. If you want to sell on the PC, you must create PC games, you have to elaborate on gameplay that is appealing to the PC crowd and they have constantly failed on doing so. 

The games that have sold more on the PC in the recent years (except Sims and WoW) have been Starcraft 2, Crysis (And Warhead) and the STALKER series. Those have sold 2x to 5x more than MW2 and the likes. Now think about it, what do those games have in common? Do you think it's just coincidence that PC exclusives are the games that most sold on the PC platform?


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## BumbleBee (Mar 8, 2011)

Mr McC said:


> As far as I'm aware, "my own" platform has not been destroyed yet, at least I play on it every single day. Considering that I don't pirate games, in what way have I contributed to the destruction of this platform? Moreover, who released the figures you are publishing and to what end? I know very few people who own an X-Box that hasn't been "chipped", and similar services are available for each and every console. Do you really believe that console gaming offers companies higher possibilities of avoiding piracy?



I know there are good people. I wasn't trying to speak for everybody 

at least consoles have consequences if your caught cheating or pirating. the PC doesn't even have remorse lol

consoles have a rental, used and trade market. the PC doesn't (formally). 

I think they help to a degree.



Praetorian said:


> This is kinda hypo statement.



PC Gamers rage every day over consoles and developers, but they have nothing to do with PC Gaming and it's current state. it's all a biproduct of piracy. PC Gamers did this to themselves.


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## Mr McC (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> I know all of this m8.  But what I meant to say is that console gamers that don't understand the modding process are more cautious when it comes to modifying their consoles.  Whereas no irreversable modification has to be done to a PC for it to run backups.
> 
> Console software is pirated like crazy....but the console market still has far more legit customers.  Unlike the PC gaming society.
> 
> ...



"Chipping" is simply the term used in the region of Spain where I live to refer to the process of unlocking the console to accept downloaded games.

Our positions appear to be opposed, but there is common ground and the truth probably lies somewhere in between, certainly the fact that hardware modification proves unnecessary on the pc suggests that piracy is an easier process on this platform; however, once a console owner witnesses what an unlocked console can do, only their moral fibre and economic possibilities dictate whether or not they will avail themselves of this option. In any event, we can agree that those wishing to pirate consoles are faced with very few real impediments.

We agree that the companies blame piracy too often and for too much. House prices have fallen, purchasing power is on the decrease and yet we are faced with games released at €60 with additional DLC content that only adds to this cost. I firmly believe that if the companies took a more realistic approach to pricing they would convert many pirates into paying customers and would probably increase profits. That isn't an apology for pirates nor an attempt to depict them as Robin Hood, it just appears to be common sense given the current economic climate and the reductions witnessed in other industries.

Where the major companies fail to adapt to the present situation and continue to focus on consoles, I feel that we will witness more and more independent companies rising to the task of filling this void: good pc games at affordable prices. Where there is a market, there will always be someone willing to satisfy demand and whilst I admit that gaming on the pc could be healthier, I affirm that it will adapt and transform before it ever dies.



BumbleBee said:


> consoles have a rental, used and trade market. the PC doesn't (formally).
> 
> I think they help to a degree.



Undoubtedly, but the pc gaming industry once had a thriving secondhand market; however the big companies killed that off via DRM, purportedly invented to combat piracy and yet, based on the figures you are publishing, it never once served this purpose.


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## Benetanegia (Mar 8, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> consoles have a rental, used and trade market. the PC doesn't (formally).



There is such a market for PC games too... in many places anyway. And it used to be much bigger in the past.  Lack of rental and used market is the consequence of PC gaming going downside, not the cause. You just can't mention the consequences of publishers screwing the PC gaming as the reason.



> PC Gamers rage every day over consoles and developers, but they have nothing to do with PC Gaming and it's current state. it's all a biproduct of piracy. PC Gamers did this to themselves.



Like I previously said, we did nothing. If they release subpar crappy console ports they will obviously not sell games it's that simple. Piracy has always existed and in fact it was much bigger in the 90's, while the user base for gamming enabled PCs was 1/3 rd of what it is now. Starcraft and Half-Life both sold over 10 million copies and they were "pirated"* to hell and back and to hell and back again. So what's different now? Yeah, HL and SC were masterpieces with 20+ hours of gameplay that sold for 40 euros and now we get subpar quality games with 4 hours worth of gameplay for 60 euros. But yeah piracy is killing PC gaming... 

Don't worry, publishers are going to start focusing on tablets and phones soon and discriminating consoles as they've done with the PC and you will see how suddenly piracy goes rampant on consoles too and tablet/phone market is the only honest gaming platform soon enough. That's what they will say anyway and it will be as false as it is with PC piracy.

* I said "pirated" with quoation marks because they didn't require any modification, you could just install them on as many PCs as you wanted to and there was no copy protection on the CD.


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> But that's what we are discussing on this thread. If they only release console games and then port them to the PC, it's obvious they will sell more on consoles. If you want to sell on the PC, you must create PC games, you have to elaborate on gameplay that is appealing to the PC crowd and they have constantly failed on doing so.
> 
> The games that have sold more on the PC in the recent years (except Sims and WoW) have been Starcraft 2, Crysis (And Warhead) and the STALKER series. Those have sold 2x to 5x more than MW2 and the likes. Now think about it, what do those games have in common? Do you think it's just coincidence that PC exclusives are the games that most sold on the PC platform?



I agree, a lack of originality/console porting is slowly killing off PC gaming.  Somewhere along the line I turned this thread into a 'console gaming is ok' thread, sorry.  I just hate being labeled as a 'console sheep' so to speak because I choose the simpler option for gaming nowadays (I was a big PC a few years back and loved it!).

But I still think that the game devs/publishers are focusing on the games console now because PC gaming just isn't as accessible.



Mr McC said:


> "Chipping" is simply the term used in the region of Spain where I live to refer to the process of unlocking the console to accept downloaded games.
> 
> Our positions appear to be opposed, but there is common ground and the truth probably lies somewhere in between, certainly the fact that hardware modification proves unnecessary on the pc suggests that piracy is an easier process on this platform; however, once a console owner witnesses what an unlocked console can do, only their moral fibre and economic possibilities dictate whether or not they will avail themselves of this option. In any event, we can agree that those wishing to pirate consoles are faced with very few real impediments.
> 
> ...



I totally agree.  The games industry needs a MASSIVE shake-up.  But it won't happen.  Too many people are hooked on console gaming and will pay for the overpriced games with overpriced DLC that should have appeared in the original retail release anyway.

PC gaming is well and truly up sh!t creek


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## wahdangun (Mar 8, 2011)

what the hell people, you are talking like PC games never have an exclusive ????

then what about starcraft 2, Civ 5, the sims 3, totalwar series, minecraft, and none was FPS !!!!!

and saying that people can't hook up PC to TV is stupid, if that the case then why HTPC market growing heck even AMD and via entering this market with their zacate and nvdia/AMD releasing low profile graphic card

and in my country PC gaming is actually growing more and more bigger than console games, and I just have one friend that own console games (ps3), because in here console gaming is more expensive than PC gaming (especially the games price),


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## Praetorian (Mar 8, 2011)

The problem is not that there are ports from consoles to PC, the problem is those ports are BAD ports, like 95% of them. Except Mass Effect 1+2, Dragon Age, and a few other I don't recall any other good ports....


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## Benetanegia (Mar 8, 2011)

wahdangun said:


> because in here console gaming is more expensive than PC gaming (especially the games price),



That's true everywhere, they just don't see it. specially XB360 costs far more than PC gaming on the long term if you are a true gamer and you don't pirate. In a period of 5 years you pay $5 * 60 months = $300 just in Live fees, plus you pay $10 more for every game you legally buy. In five years if you didn't buy 30-50 you are not really a true gamer, add another $300-500. That's $800, enough to upgrade your full gaming rig 2 times (except case, PSU...). Even 3 times if you buy intelligently, i.e you bought a MB with futureproofing and bought a dualie back in the day, you can upgrade to a quad now, etc.

And that's if you want to upgrade which is not really needed if all you want is to match the quality that consoles offer. A dual core, 2GB of the cheapest ram around and a 8800 GT is all you need if you want the same experience you get from consoles.


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## KyleReese (Mar 8, 2011)

I 've always thought that the best way for the companies to deal with piracy would be to change the medium, abandon the optical drive storage for games and go back to cartridge. Of course, the downside is the limited capacity of cartridge, but if they found a way to make something of a hybrid between a cartridge and a flash memory/SSD drive, with an added chip that prevents the creation of an ISO/ROM, or something that prevents it from being uploaded to the internet, I think that piracy would go down a lot. I mean, sure , they cracked all the 16-bit consoles and N64 and others which were all cartridge-based eventually, but isn't it easier to crack an optical drive storage medium? I think yes....I am under the impression that the two major events in technology history that made piracy so common and easily accessible, were: a) the release of CD Recordable drives and media for home use and b) the birth of high-speed internet. If they found a way to deal with those two factors, no company would be complaining about piracy...


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## BumbleBee (Mar 8, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> That's true everywhere, they just don't see it. specially XB360 costs far more than PC gaming on the long term if you are a true gamer and you don't pirate. In a period of 5 years you pay $5 * 60 months = $300 just in Live fees, plus you pay $10 more for every game you legally buy. In five years if you didn't buy 30-50 you are not really a true gamer, add another $300-500. That's $800, enough to upgrade your full gaming rig 2 times (except case, PSU...). Even 3 times if you buy intelligently, i.e you bought a MB with futureproofing and bought a dualie back in the day, you can upgrade to a quad now, etc.
> 
> And that's if you want to upgrade which is not really needed if all you want is to match the quality that consoles offer. A dual core, 2GB of the cheapest ram around and a 8800 GT is all you need if you want the same experience you get from consoles.



what about people who don't want to upgrade or want to buy a PC? XBOX 360 is dropping to $149 by Holiday 2011. you don't have to subscribe to XBOX Live. you can acquire games a couple different ways (Buy, Trade, Rent). I bought a couple titles under $10. the PC lineup is weak this year. PS3 is oozing with exclusive, multiplatform titles, PSN Arcade, PS One Classics, etc. value is where the consoles prevail.


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 8, 2011)

I agree with the console ports point. there maybe PC exclusives - but look how many there is for console compared to whats on PC. Consoles also have a lot more freebies and crap when games are labled as 'limited edition' most often coming in schmexy tin cases with small books with concept art and what not. how often do we get these things on PC? 

Piracy is just an excuse. If they REALLY and i mean REALLY wanted to make a game sell on the PC platform - make it a possible PC exclusive and the most important thing MAKE SURE ITS NOT A CONSOLE PORT. Because console ports dont help the platform. devs need to make the platform special again and draw the masses in. and they can start by stop giving us stupid console ports. there have been possibly a small handful of great ports but look at the rest! utter shit! but they dont see it because all they do is sit in the corner, cover their ears and whine about piracy while denying that they too are contributing to the decline of PC gaming.


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## HalfAHertz (Mar 8, 2011)

KyleReese said:


> I 've always thought that the best way for the companies to deal with piracy would be to change the medium, abandon the optical drive storage for games and go back to cartridge. Of course, the downside is the limited capacity of cartridge, but if they found a way to make something of a hybrid between a cartridge and a flash memory/SSD drive, with an added chip that prevents the creation of an ISO/ROM, or something that prevents it from being uploaded to the internet, I think that piracy would go down a lot. I mean, sure , they cracked all the 16-bit consoles and N64 and others which were all cartridge-based eventually, but isn't it easier to crack an optical drive storage medium? I think yes....I am under the impression that the two major events in technology history that made piracy so common and easily accessible, were: a) the release of CD Recordable drives and media for home use and b) the birth of high-speed internet. If they found a way to deal with those two factors, no company would be complaining about piracy...




I strongly disagrees. Rule No.1 of data storage is that if you save your data somewhere, then there is someone somewhere who knows how to copy it. There's no point in roms and cartridges which only increase the distribution costs. The real way to fight piracy is to completely ignore it. Yes ignore it. Instead focus on reducing production/manufacturing and distribution costs and deduct all the savings from the cost of the final product. Thus reaching a wider audience and boosting overall sales while at the same time keeping your profit margin.

Game designers prefer to make games for consoles not because of piracy but because it's easier. Thus your design phase is shorter and your overall output is greater. Simple market mechanics.


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## Benetanegia (Mar 8, 2011)

KyleReese said:


> I 've always thought that the best way for the companies to deal with piracy would be to change the medium, abandon the optical drive storage for games and go back to cartridge. Of course, the downside is the limited capacity of cartridge, but if they found a way to make something of a hybrid between a cartridge and a flash memory/SSD drive, with an added chip that prevents the creation of an ISO/ROM, or something that prevents it from being uploaded to the internet, I think that piracy would go down a lot. I mean, sure , they cracked all the 16-bit consoles and N64 and others which were all cartridge-based eventually, but isn't it easier to crack an optical drive storage medium? I think yes....I am under the impression that the two major events in technology history that made piracy so common and easily accessible, were: a) the release of CD Recordable drives and media for home use and b) the birth of high-speed internet. If they found a way to deal with those two factors, no company would be complaining about piracy...



Yeah, but those two factors are the same that made gaming more accesible and valuable and made videogaming a successful bussiness. The main reason that the PlayStation sold so much and relegated Nintendo to a second and third place back then, was because of the convenience of the CD and the fact that it was so much cheaper to produce. Without CD and internet current companies wouldn't be as big and they would not "loose as much to piracy" as they currently do. Maybe piracy rate would be lower, but they would also profit orders of magnitude less than now.

The truth is they don't lose anythng due to piracy and that internet is just the medium that allows it. Piracy rate is not either bigger than in the past, music and movies have never been pirated more than in the days of diskmans and videotapes and games that came on floppy format. Companies are just greedy and blame on piracy for "lost sales" that would have never been sales, despite the fact that they have billions of profits every year. 

They could make more? Sure. The automotive industry could also create subpar cars made with cheap components and (try to) sell them for 3x times what they're worth (which is what game publishers do and force inhouse developers to do) but because it's an industry with more history and that people know better of, they just can't get away with that. 

I'm a 3D artist and modeller and I know how much they pay for the job (and how much would I want) and I know more or less how much it costs to create games (even if they are generous with the developers/software engineers) and it's nowhere near what they claim it costs. Of course I'm not counting marketing, intermediaries and whatever the Hollywood stars get for doing their 2-3 lines of speech, but it's a lot less than the numbers they boast. I could be off by half an order of magnitude from what it really costs to make a game, but they are claiming budgets of hundreds of dollars and I can guarantee that you don't even need $5 or $10 millions to create an AAA tittle, provided no one in the prcess is a greedy prick. Hell some people are making games for free or for the little that people donate... then there's mods that are worth more than retail games...

In the movie industry you have Tarantino too, making movies for less than $10 millions that are worth 20x times more than $200++ productions...


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## Benetanegia (Mar 8, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> the PC line up is weak this year.



PC line up weak? Like I said you are not aware of PC gaming anymore if you have ever been that is.

And you mention casual games as a strong point for PS3... PC is king for that, you simply cannot beat it lol, Popcap anyone? Plus you have thousands of FREE games and also flash games, which pwn many of those available for purchase for the PS3. Add fun mods for existing games like zombie mods, garry's mod etc... sorry but no matter how leet your PC is, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. I don't mean to be rude, but it's true.

You bought a couple games for $10? I bought Prey*, STALKER: SOC*, Bioshock*, Rome:TW*, Medieval2:TW, RACE, GTR2*, and a dozen more for less than $5 each (less than 3 euros actually). I also bought Orange box for 25 euros. Steam sales, pure awesomesauce.

* This ones I already had on disk, but wth for 3 euros i get them on Steam too... all of them 1 year after they were released. it's not that they were old.


----------



## BumbleBee (Mar 8, 2011)

haha. shame on you. you must be getting desperate.


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> That's true everywhere, they just don't see it. specially XB360 costs far more than PC gaming on the long term if you are a true gamer and you don't pirate. In a period of 5 years you pay $5 * 60 months = $300 just in Live fees, plus you pay $10 more for every game you legally buy. In five years if you didn't buy 30-50 you are not really a true gamer, add another $300-500. That's $800, enough to upgrade your full gaming rig 2 times (except case, PSU...). Even 3 times if you buy intelligently, i.e you bought a MB with futureproofing and bought a dualie back in the day, you can upgrade to a quad now, etc.
> 
> And that's if you want to upgrade which is not really needed if all you want is to match the quality that consoles offer. A dual core, 2GB of the cheapest ram around and a 8800 GT is all you need if you want the same experience you get from consoles.



I pay between £30-£32 for a 12 month GOLD XBL membership.  Those that pay for XBL monthly are idiots.

You say that a cheap gaming PC consisting of a dual core CPU, 2GB of RAM and an 8800GT would be just as good as a current gen console (360/PS3).  No disrespect, but I call bullshit.

The difference between a cheap gaming PC and a current gen console (not including the Wii) is optimisation.  Console games are optimised for that console whereas PC games are not optimised for a single hardware configuration.  Yes, the 360 and PS3 are ancient now.  But they can still do impressive things with them.

I could be wrong, but I bet Call Of Duty - Modern Warfare 2 would run better on the 360, linked up to a 42" 1080p LCD TV than what the cheapy system you described would.



BumbleBee said:


> haha. shame on you. you must be getting desperate.



LOL


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 8, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> haha. shame on you. you must be getting desperate.



I am not desperate at all. Nor am I angry. I never get altered really. I'm from Spain, and a good specimen at that. We are passionate, we do not measure our words, we let them free. Furthermore I'm from Bilbao, and that's something that spaniards will get right away. For outsiders, just take what I said above and multiply it by 10x.



HookeyStreet said:


> I could be wrong, but I bet Call Of Duty - Modern Warfare 2 would run better on the 360, linked up to a 42" 1080p LCD TV than what the cheapy system you described would.



You are wrong.

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6240905/p-4.html










1920x1200 High Quality 4xAA/8xAF -> 55 fps on the stock 8800 GT. beautiful thing about PCs in general and G92 (8800 GT) in particular, they overclock like champs. Expect 65-70 fps from OCed 8800 GT.

And don't fool yourself. On consoles you don't get 1920x1200, you don't get high quality AA* and AF*, you don't get anywhere near the quality on textures and shadows and don't fool yourself, you don't get 60 fps steady...

* You want even better fps and same quality as in consoles, go to Nvidia CP or CCC and enable every posible optimization you encounter, voilà get a 25% performance boost. With many games you could also just disable any AA and AF because many console games have none.


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## HalfAHertz (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> I pay between £30-£32 for a 12 month GOLD XBL membership.  Those that pay for XBL monthly are idiots.
> 
> You say that a cheap gaming PC consisting of a dual core CPU, 2GB of RAM and an 8800GT would be just as good as a current gen console (360/PS3).  No disrespect, but I call bullshit.
> 
> ...



Um I'm no expert but from what I've seen the  equivalent of console graphics for the PC would be a mix of low and medium settings at 1280x720@30fps. I am pretty sure that a dual core pc with a 8800GT and 2GB of ram will play the PC equivalent of that console game without a sweat


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 8, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> You are wrong.



I agree. I had a 4200x2 (939) with a 8800GT and it produced FAR better graphics then the 360 or PS3. That was a few years back too. I can get even better hardware now for the same price. In the long run PC gaming is FAR cheaper. Thats been proven time and time again in many other threads. There is only one advantage to console gaming. Thats plug and play. Everything else is second hand compared to a PC.

I make a living off of my gaming PC. Can you say the same for your console?


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## Praetorian (Mar 8, 2011)

What's to compare? X-Box360 feature a GPU similar to the ancient ATI X1900, while the PS3 have something similar to Nvidia GeForce 7800 GTX...


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 8, 2011)

Praetorian said:


> What's to compare? X-Box360 feature a GPU similar to the ancient ATI 2900 Pro, while the PS3 have something similar to Nvidia GeForce 7800 GTX...



Try a 1900 in the 360 last I read.


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I make a living off of my gaming PC. Can you say the same for your console?



LOL, now you know that has nothing to do with the subject 



TheMailMan78 said:


> Try a 1900 in the 360 last I read.



Yep.

OK guys, would the cheapy system that Bene spoke of be able to run God Of War III (if it was available on the PC) as nice as it runs on the PS3?  I doubt it.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> LOL, now you know that has nothing to do with the subject
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why not? The hardware didn't change with the PS3. It would look even better on a PC. On a PC no need to compress the textures and such. As a matter of fact its a shame it wasn't released on a PC because it would show the inferiority of the console hardware to the masses of subject ignorant people.

When BF3 hits the shelves you will see a mass exodus of console FPS players on the console. The simple fact it cannot handle 64 players says everything to me.

You will have watered down graphics AND less of an experience with a console. Them are the facts.


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## Benetanegia (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> OK guys, would the cheapy system that Bene spoke of be able to run God Of War III (if it was available on the PC) as nice as it runs on the PS3?  I doubt it.



And you would be wrong once again mate. God of War III isn't particularly exceptional in anything (graphics related), it does have a lot of work to make it look nice though. That is the differece, and the subject on this thread, that they put a lot of work on console versions and none on the PC. And even still, thanks to the vast superiority of PCs games run and look much better.

A close platform allows for better optimisations, that's true, but it's nowhere near as much as you think. We would be talking about a 25% performance hit (including OS, AV and other bloatware) for the same level of hardware. That means that to match console graphics, you need 1.25x the power. Not 2x, 3x. And current GPUs and CPUs are 8x times more powerful than consoles, but they are not used the slightlest to their true potential. Just look at the charts I posted above: the HD5970 has 4x the brute power of the 4870, but it's only twice as fast. The higher you go (the more you offset the hardware power from consoles) the worse it gets.

On CPU the same, Core i7 on the top is easily 6x faster then the 1.83 ghz dualie. Difference? Considering the difference in raw power, negligible.


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## CDdude55 (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> OK guys, would the cheapy system that Bene spoke of be able to run God Of War III (if it was available on the PC) as nice as it runs on the PS3?  I doubt it.



Most definitely yes, God of War III like every other Console game has it's engine scaled down and created to run on the old '05/'06 hardware inside of them, the actual game itself to run is nothing for a computer running hardware from '07/'08 , that cheap machine is much more powerful then any of today's consoles, i would argue that yes, that machine could not only run God of War III but also have it look much better in the process.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 8, 2011)

The bottom line is console people think the graphics are great because thats all the know. PC gamers are sick of having shit fed to them for the sake of their little retarded brother (consoles). This is where the argument begins and ends.

The second a game comes out thats cross platform and a console player gets a good taste of PC gaming that console gamer never looks back. A PC gamer is born. I've built three gaming PC's just because I let a console noob get a crack of BC2 on my rig. Once they see the superior graphic, game play and accessibility they are blown away. End of story....


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 8, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> The bottom line is console people think the graphics are great because thats all the know. PC gamers are sick of having shit fed to them for the sake of their little retarded brother (consoles). This is where the argument begins and ends.
> 
> The second a game comes out thats cross platform and a console player gets a good taste of PC gaming that console gamer never looks back. A PC gamer is born. I've built three gaming PC's just because I let a console noob get a crack of BC2 on my rig. Once they see the superior graphic, game play and accessibility they are blown away. End of story....
> 
> http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs44/f/2009/140/2/2/PC_Gaming_Master_Race_by_Claidheam_Righ.jpg



theres only one problem with what you said - and its console ports. BC2 and up coming BF3 are exceptions. however these games wont automatically stop devs making ports for the PC. they are taking away the PCs ability to shine


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

I don't just mean graphically.  I mean performance as an whole.  How many times have you guys been pissed of that the game you're playing is choppy?  Because console games are optimised for that specific console, they generally feel more 'solid'.



TheMailMan78 said:


> The bottom line is console people think the graphics are great because thats all the know. PC gamers are sick of having shit fed to them for the sake of their little retarded brother (consoles). This is where the argument begins and ends.
> 
> The second a game comes out thats cross platform and a console player gets a good taste of PC gaming that console gamer never looks back. A PC gamer is born. I've built three gaming PC's just because I let a console noob get a crack of BC2 on my rig. Once they see the superior graphic, game play and accessibility they are blown away. End of story....
> 
> http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs44/f/2009/140/2/2/PC_Gaming_Master_Race_by_Claidheam_Righ.jpg



But that isn't the end of the story is it.  If it was, threads like this wouldn't even exist.  Just because you've converted a couple of console gamers, I've done the same many times and built many systems for these PS noobs, doesn't chnage the fact that more and more people are turning to consoles for quick gaming fixes!


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## BumbleBee (Mar 8, 2011)

does anybody remember the last PC exclusive to get a tv spot that didn't have a Blizzard logo?


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 8, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> does anybody remember the last PC exclusive to get a tv spot that didn't have a Blizzard logo?



It never really has and I'm not sure how thats even relevant? Anyway the only exclusives the consoles have thats worth playing are on the Wii anyway.


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> It never really has and I'm not sure how thats even relevant? Anyway the only exclusives the consoles have thats worth playing are on the Wii anyway.



But that's just your personal preference.  Millions of others enjoy all kinds of console games, not just first person shooters.  You say you like the Wii because its a true console (because of the innovative motion controller).  But have you even played on Kinect yet?


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> I don't just mean graphically.  I mean performance as an whole.  How many times have you guys been pissed of that the game you're playing is choppy?  Because console games are optimised for that specific console, they generally feel more 'solid'.
> 
> 
> 
> But that isn't the end of the story is it.  If it was, threads like this wouldn't even exist.  Just because you've converted a couple of console gamers, I've done the same many times and built many systems for these PS noobs, doesn't chnage the fact that more and more people are turning to consoles for quick gaming fixes!


 People are flocking to Macs too. I guess that makes them better also? As for us complaining about games not running as well on the PC thats because we are running them WAY over console spec. If we ran them at console spec then they would be fine. Thats the issue. We have to play retard ball when we are MLS players. Console players are content with a pile of shit and a bib when PC players are used to Filet mignon and a golden fork.



HookeyStreet said:


> But that's just your personal preference.  Millions of others enjoy all kinds of console games, not just first person shooters.  You say you like the Wii because its a true console (because of the innovative motion controller).  But have you even played on Kinect yet?



Oh that thing that copied the Wii's "gimmicky" controls? lol


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> People are flocking to Macs too. I guess that makes them better also? As for us complaining about games not running as well on the PC thats because we are running them WAY over console spec. If we ran them at console spec then they would be fine. Thats the issue. We have to play retard ball when we are MLS players. Console players are content with a pile of shit and a bib when PC players are used to Filet mignon and a golden fork.



But why has the industry become like this?  Your anger is misdirected


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> But why has the industry become like this?  Your anger is misdirected



Because console players enjoy the taste of shit served three times a day.


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Because console players enjoy the taste of shit served three times a day.



I'm sure if you built those shit eating console gamers a super rig they would gladly play it.  But not all of them know how to use a good PC properly. Or have the funds to own and maintain one.  A lot of console gamers are young children.  So should little Jimmy that eats his bogeys be the proud owner of a grands worth of PC......no, he should'nt!


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> I'm sure if you built those shit eating console gamers a super rig they would gladly play it.  But not all of them have know how to use a good PC properly.



So innovation now suffers for the sake of the retarded little brother.


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## snuif09 (Mar 8, 2011)

I'am a console collector I probably have more consoles than all of you from virtual boy to xbox360 to atari 2600.

Consoles are great because of their ease of use cause not everyone is the glorious intelligent PC master race. But they just can't keep up with technology.Yes I own kinect and I don't like that crap. If I to play baseball I would go outside instead of looking like an idiot, It's hella fun at parties tho. But one day in 2007 my nephew showed me PC graphics and I was like HOLYSHITWTF%(@&*!)% and i started building a pc.

oh and i remember a certain popular console game starting out on pc ( o hey CoD) obviously it started to suck when it became aimed for consoles.


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## Benetanegia (Mar 8, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> does anybody remember the last PC exclusive to get a tv spot that didn't have a Blizzard logo?



I think I already mentioned that point and if I didn't I was thnking about it. lol

The whole thing discussed in the last pages is why don't PC games sell. And let's see:

- They are actually console games. With all the implications of that statement.
- Full of DRM and other crap that only annoys legit buyers, since pirates just bypass them.
- They are not marketed on TV, while console versions are at every moment, to the point of being annoying to see the same commercial 5 times during a handball match. I actually know 2 guys that bought a PS3 in order to play Modern Warfare and I don't know what other game, because as they said: COD4:MW and the other game (multiplatform too) are only available for consoles! 

So crappy ports, no marketing, draconian drm... I just can't figure out why PC games don't sell very well lately... must be piracy...:shadedshu



HookeyStreet said:


> But why has the industry become like this?  Your anger is misdirected



Because the average console crowd is much easier to content and are willing to pay higher prices. Because there's not enough console gamers (as to make a difference) that would go to forums and say 2 straight intelligent sentences as to why a game sucks* and that way they have no post-release responsability. 
Because they don't care about dedicated servers, 32+ player MP, ability to create mods and countless of other things that PC gamers take as granted.
etc.etc.

I'm obviously not putting guys from TPU forums on that bag, but you guys you are the minority.

* They would say childish things that no one takes seriously.


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

snuif09 said:


> I'am a console collector I probably have more consoles than all of you from virtual boy to xbox360 to atari 2600.
> 
> Consoles are great because of their ease of use cause not everyone is the glorious intelligent PC master race. But they just can't keep up with technology.Yes I own kinect and I don't like that crap. If I to play baseball I would go outside instead of looking like an idiot, It's hella fun at parties tho. But one day in 2007 my nephew showed me PC graphics and I was like HOLYSHITWTF%(@&*!)% and i started building a pc.
> 
> oh and i remember a certain popular console game starting out on pc ( o hey CoD) obviously it started to suck when it became aimed for consoles.



But consoles are not intended to compete with upgradable PCs. The PC Vs console debate is retarded.  They can not and should not be compared.  Uber PCs are great.  But the console gamer shouldn't be looked down on because they decide to take the easy route to gaming.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> But consoles are not intended to compete with upgradable PCs. The PC Vs console debate is retarded.  They can not and should not be compared.  Uber PCs are great.  But the console gamer shouldn't be looked down on because they decide to take the easy route to gaming.



But thats the point. They are in fact the inferior platform.


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## snuif09 (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> But consoles are not intended to compete with upgradable PCs. The PC Vs console debate is retarded.  They can not and should not be compared.  Uber PCs are great.  But the console gamer shouldn't be looked down on because they decide to take the easy route to gaming.



Yes and that easy(mindless) route is why there aren't as much great games as there used to be but only sequels to sequels to a sequel.


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> Because the average console crowd is much easier to content and are willing to pay higher prices. Because there's not enough console gamers (as to make a difference) that would go to forums and say 2 straight intelligent sentences as to why a game sucks* and that way they have no post-release responsability.
> Because they don't care about dedicated servers, 32+ player MP, ability to create mods and countless of other things that PC gamers take as granted.
> etc.etc.
> 
> ...



So, because I'm a console gamer, I'm not as intelligent as you?  Mmmmmmmmmm.



TheMailMan78 said:


> But thats the point. They are in fact the inferior platform.



Well, yes.  But that inferior platform isn't what this thread is about.  This thread is about PC gaming dying out.


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## snuif09 (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> So, because I'm a console gamer, I'm not as intelligent as you?  Mmmmmmmmmm.



yes.


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

snuif09 said:


> yes.



I have 2 words for you.  But I'm far to polite to use them.

EDIT: actually, I'm not: Fuck you!


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## snuif09 (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> I have 2 words for you.  But I'm far to polite to use them.



Just saying it makes you less of an idiot then describing it though.


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

snuif09 said:


> Just saying it makes you less of an idiot then describing it though.



Read my post again


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## Benetanegia (Mar 8, 2011)

snuif09 said:


> Yes and that easy(mindless) route is why there aren't as much great games as there used to be but only sequels to sequels to a sequel.



Yep, exactly. If the attitude of the mayority is let's just play anything, publishers will just release anything.

The same is happening to TV. At least here is Spain it's terrible. Apprently people just put on the TV and want to see the most mindless and irrelevant thing they can find (like Big Brother), so as to not to have to use the brain (after the countless hours of not using their brain in their repetitive and meaningless work I guess) and since that's what a mayority of people want, not the grand mayority, but a significant mayority and creating those crappy TV shows cost 2 pennies, that's what we get today on TV. 24/7 of midless and irrelevant mediocrity.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 8, 2011)

Critical Mass reached. Thread will now self destruct!


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Critical Mass reached. Thread will now self destruct!



Nah m8.  We are all debating like adults.  But one idiot always has to start throwing the insults around.

PS: another thing I have noticed is hardcore PC gamers turning their backs on PC gaming and actually turning to consoles (a little bit like myself).


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## Benetanegia (Mar 8, 2011)

snuif09 said:


> Yes and that easy(mindless) route is why there aren't as much great games as there used to be but only sequels to sequels to a sequel.



Yep, exactly. If the attitude of the mayority is let's just play anything, publishers will just release anything. The cheapest thing.

The same is happening to TV. At least here is Spain it's terrible. Apprently people just put on the TV and want to see the most mindless and irrelevant thing they can find (like Big Brother), so as to not to have to use the brain (after the countless hours of not using their brain in their repetitive and meaningless work I guess) and since that's what a mayority of people want, not the grand mayority, but a significant mayority and creating those crappy TV shows cost 2 pennies, that's what we get today on TV. 24/7 of midless and irrelevant mediocrity.



> So, because I'm a console gamer, I'm not as intelligent as you? Mmmmmmmmmm.



I said that I exclude TPU users, because being on TPU already demostrates some degree of intelligence, but face it, most console gamers are <15 year old idiots.

That being said, you are not as intelligent as me.


----------



## DannibusX (Mar 8, 2011)

So, this thread is basically pointless.

PC gaming isn't _dying_, but it is being effected by the prevailence of consoles.  People still play games on the PC, companies still make games for the PC, some companies make games for the PC exclusively, but the console market holds the rest of the developers back from taking huge steps in technological progression.  There's too much money in it, Nintendo, Sony, Sega and Microsoft turned the video game industry into a billion dollar a year industry and all the publishers want a slice of that pie.

And Hookey, you got trolled pretty hard, reread your post then look through the rest of posts after it.


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## snuif09 (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> Nah m8.  We are all debating like adults.  But one idiot always has to start throwing the insults around.



I dont recall someone cursing at you.


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> Yep, exactly. If the attitude of the *mayority* is let's just play anything, publishers will just release anything. The cheapest thing.
> 
> The same is happening to TV. At least here is Spain it's terrible. *Apprently* people just put on the TV and want to see the most mindless and irrelevant thing they can find (like Big Brother), so as to not to have to use the brain (after the countless hours of not using their brain in their repetitive and meaningless work I guess) and since that's what a mayority of people want, not the grand mayority, but a significant mayority and creating those crappy TV shows cost 2 pennies, that's what we get today on TV. 24/7 of midless and irrelevant mediocrity.
> 
> ...



You may be more intelligent than me.....but at least I can spell FFS!  Please tell me how you know you are more intelligent than me?


----------



## HalfAHertz (Mar 8, 2011)

snuif09 said:


> Just saying it makes you less of an idiot then describing it though.



You guys are bonkers! I would love to think of myself as a superior being from a master race because I use a PC but the honest truth is this: If I am playing a game with my friends, it doesn't matter if it's on the PC or the console because I'm having equal amounts of fun on both systems!


----------



## snuif09 (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> You may be more intelligent than me.....but at least I can spell FFS!



English isn't everyones 1st language.


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## BumbleBee (Mar 8, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> Yep, exactly. If the attitude of the mayority is let's just play anything, publishers will just release anything. The cheapest thing.
> 
> The same is happening to TV. At least here is Spain it's terrible. Apprently people just put on the TV and want to see the most mindless and irrelevant thing they can find (like Big Brother), so as to not to have to use the brain (after the countless hours of not using their brain in their repetitive and meaningless work I guess) and since that's what a mayority of people want, not the grand mayority, but a significant mayority and creating those crappy TV shows cost 2 pennies, that's what we get today on TV. 24/7 of midless and irrelevant mediocrity.
> 
> ...



yeah maybe on the Nintendo Wii. the average age of a gamer is 35.


----------



## Praetorian (Mar 8, 2011)

I keep reading this thread and I'm laughing my pants off. What's with this silly statement that people prefer gaming on consoles because they are easier to use, or are much more simpler and convenient than gaming on PC?!?!!? LOL


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## snuif09 (Mar 8, 2011)

HalfAHertz said:


> You guys are bonkers! I would love to think of myself as a superior being from a master race because I use a PC but the honest truth is this: If I am playing a game with my friends, it doesn't matter if it's on the PC or the console because I'm having equal amounts of fun on both systems!



You have a good point there.

That is one thing that is terrible about the PC. I had tons of fun playing splitscreen Halo 3 with friends and family.


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> You may be more intelligent than me.....but at least I can spell FFS!



Oh, we are at that point in which the bad spelling of people for whom english is the 3rd (maybe 4th) language is a valid counter-argument?

And it was a joke FFS!

Bad timing for a joke? You're probably right.


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

snuif09 said:


> English isn't everyones 1st language.



That's not my fault is it?  We can't all be perfect.



Benetanegia said:


> Oh, we are at that point in which the bad spelling of people for whom english is the 3rd (maybe 4th) language is a valid counter-argument?



Well please explain to me how you are more intelligent than me and how you know this for a fact?  Have we met?


----------



## DannibusX (Mar 8, 2011)

You know, at some point the mods are gonna look at this thread and they might close it.  I really like this thread and find it to be good conversation, so why would you foul it up with insults and general retardation.

So why doesn't everyone stand up, take a chill pill and come back to the table when they can act like adults?


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

DannibusX said:


> You know, at some point the mods are gonna look at this thread and they might close it.  I really like this thread and find it to be good conversation, so why would you foul it up with insults and general retardation.
> 
> So why doesn't everyone stand up, take a chill pill and come back to the table when they can act like adults?



I agree.  This thread isn't about PC vs console.  It's about PC gaming, nothing more.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 8, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> yeah maybe on the Nintendo Wii. the average age of a gamer is 35.



You see? 360 and PS3 users think they are leet because of the Wii having "less power". But in fact the Wii is a vastly superior platform then the PS3 or 360. Add the fact they cannot hold a candle to the PC in ANYTHING and you are given a massive inferiority complex. Sad really.



DannibusX said:


> You know, at some point the mods are gonna look at this thread and they might close it.  I really like this thread and find it to be good conversation, so why would you foul it up with insults and general retardation.
> 
> So why doesn't everyone stand up, take a chill pill and come back to the table when they can act like adults?



Someones trying for a mod title lol


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## BumbleBee (Mar 8, 2011)




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## HalfAHertz (Mar 8, 2011)

Guys I hope you can solve your little scuff like true gentlemen


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> Bad timing for a joke? You're probably right.



It's hard to spot humour in text on a screen.



HalfAHertz said:


> Guys I hope you can solve your little scuff like true gentlemen



LOL, prefer this kind of duel:







But, back on topic.......


----------



## DannibusX (Mar 8, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Someones trying for a mod title lol



Negatory, I just like the discussion and would like it to go forward without the thread getting locked and while cockblocking you from getting another infraction!


----------



## snuif09 (Mar 8, 2011)

Well back on the subject.

I think the "death" of pc isn't because of consoles(well indirectly) but the developers just aren't giving a fuck about quality and just want bux so they just make it for the most accessible platform there is.


----------



## wahdangun (Mar 8, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> does anybody remember the last PC exclusive to get a tv spot that didn't have a Blizzard logo?



shogun total war? I have seen the ads everywhere, 
and in indonesia there are point blank(an indonesian cs:source) heck we even have national competition for it. And because we are poor country we can't afford I mean $60 is almost halve of our monthly salary. So in here MMO become more popular than any games.


----------



## snuif09 (Mar 8, 2011)

wahdangun said:


> shogun total war? I have seen the ads everywhere,
> and in indonesia there are point blank(an indonesian cs:source) heck we even have national competition for it. And because we are poor country we can't afford I mean $60 is almost halve of our monthly salary. So in here MMO become more popular than any games.



Ofcourse!

How could we forget the Freemium games.

League of Legends, Bloodline Champions, Warrock etc those games are immensely popular.


----------



## BumbleBee (Mar 8, 2011)

wahdangun said:


> shogun total war? I have seen the ads everywhere,
> and in indonesia there are point blank(an indonesian cs:source) heck we even have national competition for it. And because we are poor country we can't afford I mean $60 is almost halve of our monthly salary. So in here MMO become more popular than any games.



thanks.

achievement unlocked: new york cheesecake.


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 8, 2011)

All I know is that I'm hooked to this thread although I don't have much more to say. I'm just waiting fo the next thing to happen. I was going to start playing some online poker (PokerStars) 2 hours ago, but here I am. 

Which reminds me... can you play PokerStars on consoles? You can't. Consoles suck.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 8, 2011)

DannibusX said:


> Negatory, I just like the discussion and would like it to go forward without the thread getting locked and while cockblocking you from getting another infraction!



I would let nature take its course. This thread is pointless already.

1. PC gaming isn't dieing. Its never even been in danger. Thats just wishful thinking by the competitors. We have proven that in dozens of threads.

2. Consoles are not the cause of our current drought of good titles on any platform. Its the developers making sub-par games. Console users are just a victim of their own ignorance. Crysis 2 is a prime example. Console people praise it while PC users are disgusted. Forgive them father. Console users know not what they do. 

3. If they went back to the days of down porting we would see a rebirth of gaming. Hell I might even buy a PS3. Until then welcome to the dark ages. Where innovation is only found on the Wii.


----------



## DannibusX (Mar 8, 2011)

themailman78 said:


> i would let nature take its course. This thread is pointless already.
> 
> 1. Pc gaming isn't dieing. Its never even been in danger. Thats just wishful thinking by the competitors. We have proven that in dozens of threads.
> 
> ...



#winning


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I would let nature take its course. This thread is pointless already.
> 
> 1. PC gaming isn't dieing. Its never even been in danger. Thats just wishful thinking by the competitors. We have proven that in dozens of threads.
> 
> ...




What about Move and Kinect?



snuif09 said:


> Well back on the subject.
> 
> I think the "death" of pc isn't because of consoles(well indirectly) but the developers just aren't giving a fuck about quality and just want bux so they just make it for the most accessible platform there is.



Precisely!


----------



## KingPing (Mar 8, 2011)

Claiming PC gaming is dying, because some titles are not released on PC, and some are ports is too much men, too much!

Now some titles are not being released for consoles (actually a lot more than consoles exclusive), and some are or will be ported to console, what the hell, i'll just say that console gaming is dying.


 Seriously, why people think PC gaming is dying, since Steam was released i see a constant grow in PC. Indie games on PC are better than indie games on console. 

 And in PC you have games that i don't see how could be successful in console, like Stalker, or Killing floor, i love those game, but do you think they could have a chance in console, where all that people play is AAA titles.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> [/B]
> 
> What about Move and Kinect?
> 
> ...



Move and Kinect are not cutting edge. They are an after thought. Wii was innovative. The rest (Move and Kinect) are just copy cats. See Sony and MS were trying to copy the PC and they failed. So now they see how its done (Nintendo) and are in a flutter to copy.

The whole time behind the curb.


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Move and Kinect are not cutting edge. They are an after thought. Wii was innovative. The rest (Move and Kinect) are just copy cats. See Sony and MS were trying to copy the PC and they failed. So now they see how its done (Nintendo) and are in a flutter to copy.
> 
> The whole time behind the curb.



I have a feeling that you champion the Wii because it isn't considered a serious console and a threat to PC gaming (ie, it's primarily for kids) 

Move has taken Nintendos motion controller idea and made it better.  Kinect is quite different from the Wii and Move, but yes, MS obviously wanted a slice of the pie.


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 8, 2011)

Nah, it's because the Wii is meant for different things than what a PC or PS3/X360 are meant to. It's complamentary, while the other two pretend to be a cheaper alternative to PC gaming. IN that they lost their console roots, their purpose.


----------



## Mr McC (Mar 8, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I would let nature take its course. This thread is pointless already.
> 
> 1. PC gaming isn't dieing. Its never even been in danger. Thats just wishful thinking by the competitors. We have proven that in dozens of threads.
> 
> ...





DannibusX said:


> #winning





TheMailMan78 said:


> Move and Kinect are not cutting edge. They are an after thought. Wii was innovative. The rest (Move and Kinect) are just copy cats. See Sony and MS were trying to copy the PC and they failed. So now they see how its done (Nintendo) and are in a flutter to copy.
> 
> The whole time behind the curb.



I concur.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> I have a feeling that you champion the Wii because it isn't considered a serious console and a threat to PC gaming (ie, it's primarily for kids)
> 
> Move has taken Nintendos motion controller idea and made it better.  Kinect is quite different from the Wii and Move, but yes, MS obviously wanted a slice of the pie.



The Wii is far more the "threat" to PC gaming then the 360 or PS3 could ever dream of. Wii brought us motion gaming. Something even the PC is emulating now. What is the PC copying from the 360 or PS3.........nothing.

Add to the fact the Wii outsold the 360 and PS3 combined to begin with and you have a legitimate "threat". Not some half ass attempt at a gaming PC.


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> The Wii is far more the "threat" to PC gaming then the 360 or PS3 could ever dream of. Wii brought us motion gaming. Something even the PC is emulating now. What is the PC copying from the 360 or PS3.........nothing.
> 
> Add to the fact the Wii outsold the 360 and PS3 combined to begin with and you have a legitimate "threat". Not some half ass attempt at a gaming PC.



I don't think the 360/PS3 can be called a failed attempt at PC gaming.  If you say this because they have online capability for multiplayer, what about the original XBOX and the Dreamcast?


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> I don't think the 360/PS3 can be called a failed attempt at PC gaming.  If you say this because they have online capability for multiplayer, what about the original XBOX and the Dreamcast?



Not just the multi-player. But at everything.


----------



## wahdangun (Mar 8, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> All I know is that I'm hooked to this thread although I don't have much more to say. I'm just waiting fo the next thing to happen. I was going to start playing some online poker (PokerStars) 2 hours ago, but here I am.
> 
> Which reminds me... can you play PokerStars on consoles? You can't. Consoles suck.



is that strip poker variant? With nude women in it lol.

Btw wii  was not the threat. Althought it was the highest selling console the games in it was not selling well. And there are basically almost no AAA title or block buster title like cod:bo on xbox, uncharted on ps3, or starcraft 2 on pc. And thats why developer was not really interested on wii. And i think the future of pc gaming is heading to MMO like micro transaction.


----------



## BumbleBee (Mar 8, 2011)

Nintendo Wii is good at collecting dust.


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> Nah, it's because the Wii is meant for different things than what a PC or PS3/X360 are meant to. It's complamentary, while the other two pretend to be a cheaper alternative to PC gaming. IN that they lost their console roots, their purpose.





TheMailMan78 said:


> Not just the multi-player. But at everything.



But you guys have to admit.  Times change and technology advances.  I think it's pretty good that they tried to put in some good tech from that time frame.  I know consoles are meant to be fun systems.  But they have got progressively more advanced over the years.  Look at the Dreamcast, that was awesome and I will lose ALL respect for the both of you if you disagree 

PS: I thought the true roots of a games console was to just play games???


----------



## KingPing (Mar 8, 2011)

So go play fun games and stop saying PC gaming is dying


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

KingPing said:


> So go play fun games and stop saying PC gaming is dying



LOL, this is a thread entitled 'The unknown future of PC gaming....'


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> LOL, this is a thread entitled 'The unknown future of PC gaming....'



But see thats the problem it is known. Its the unknown future of this troll magnet thread thats unknown.........even still thats known.

PC gaming is going nowhere. End of story. Ya dejame quieto!


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> But see thats the problem it is known. Its the unknown future of this troll magnet thread thats unknown.........even still thats known.
> 
> PC gaming is going nowhere. End of story. Ya dejame quieto!



So you don't think it's in trouble?  Wouldn't you class crappy console ports as a worry?  Because these make uber PC hardware redundant.


----------



## KingPing (Mar 8, 2011)

Why there are so many companies doing stuff for PC (Razer, Logitech, Steelseries, ASUS, Gigabyte, Sapphire, EVGA, XFX, Intel, AMD, etc, etc, etc.) if PC gaming is dying?

1 more post to 300 posts!!!


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

KingPing said:


> Why there are so many companies doing stuff for PC (Razer, Logitech, Steelseries, ASUS, Gigabyte, Sapphire, EVGA, XFX, Intel, AMD, etc, etc, etc.) if PC gaming is dying?
> 
> 1 more post to 300 posts!!!



Razer have released a pad for the 360


----------



## Mr McC (Mar 8, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> Nintendo Wii is good at collecting dust.



I feel that's an unfair assessment of the Wii. Have you played Resident Evil IV on the Wii? It bears repetition, besides, the Wii never intended to compete with the pc on the same terms: if you go to a party with a large screen tv and a Wii, people who have no interest in games or computing will become actively and enthusiastically involved in some of the most simplistic, but most enjoyable social games that exist. If you attend a party where a particular pc game produces the same general level of enjoyment, irrespective of age group or degree of habitual involvement with games, you are clearly attending the wrong parties. The Wii possesses its own context, where it has no real rivals.


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

Mr McC said:


> I feel that's an unfair assessment of the Wii. Have you played Resident Evil IV on the Wii? It bears repetition, besides, the Wii never intended to compete with the pc on the same terms: if you go to a party with a large screen tv and a Wii, people who have no interest in games or computing will become actively and enthusiastically involved in some of the most simplistic, but most enjoyable social games that exist. If you attend a party where a particular pc game produces the same general level of enjoyment, irrespective of age group or degree of habitual involvement with games, you are clearly attending the wrong parties. The Wii possesses its own context, *where it has no real rivals*.



It does m8, Kinect.  Have you even played on Kinect? (alone or better still, with friends and family).  Motion gaming without the need for a pad is great!

*5000 posts baby!*


----------



## KingPing (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> Razer have released a pad for the 360




exactly!

300 POST!!!


----------



## BumbleBee (Mar 8, 2011)

I think it's a pretty fair assessment. every person I know who owns one has it sitting on a television stand for months on end because there are no games to play.


----------



## Mr McC (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> It does m8, Kinect.  Have you even played on Kinect? (alone or better still, with friends and family)
> 
> *5000 posts baby!*



I haven't tried it yet, no, but Nintendo inevitably offer more software options, even if Kinect proves superior, and motion sensor gaming is a market they created. Are Nintendo simply better at playing Apple than Apple? I don't know, but nobody can argue that the Wii is not a success story with its own exclusive niche within gaming history.

Incidentally, do we have to take our hats off before we speak to you now? "5000 posts", indeed...


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

Mr McC said:


> I haven't tried it yet, no, but Nintendo inevitably offer more software options, even if Kinect proves superior, and motion sensor gaming is a market they created. Are Nintendo simply better at playing Apple than Apple? I don't know, but nobody can argue that the Wii is not a success story with its own exclusive niche within gaming history.



The Wii is an huge success.  The Wii 2 could be something VERY special!


----------



## Praetorian (Mar 8, 2011)

wahdangun said:


> ...
> Btw wii  was not the threat. Althought it was the highest selling console _*the games in it was not selling well*_. And there are basically almost *no AAA title or block buster title* (????) like cod:bo on xbox, uncharted on ps3, or starcraft 2 on pc. And *thats why developer was not really interested on wii* (!!!). And i think the future of pc gaming is heading to MMO like micro transaction.



LOL+ROFLx10!!!!! If you would only know how many millions of copies those sport games sold, you would get an instant heart attack.
Here, prepare yourself, HAHAHAHA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games#Wii


----------



## Frizz (Mar 8, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> I think it's a pretty fair assessment. every person I know who owns one has it sitting on a television stand for months on end because there are no games to play.




Lol, me and my gf played withit for a month or two ... After playing Zelda my wii has been placed somewhere in the cupboard along with my ps2 never to see light of day.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 8, 2011)

I play with my Wii daily.


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I play with my Wii daily.


----------



## HalfAHertz (Mar 8, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I play with my Willi daily.



corrected

Edit: Did anyone else notice MailMan's posts/day counter?  weird


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 8, 2011)

My wife loves the Wii! Shes unemployed and I work from home. Lots of WINNING!


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> My wife loves the Wii! Shes unemployed and I work from home. Lots of WINNING!



Even Charlie plays the 360 version!


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 8, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> Even Charlie plays the 360 version!



Hes also on a drug called Charlie Sheen!


----------



## brandonwh64 (Mar 8, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Hes also on a drug called Charlie Sheen!



Duh Winning!


----------



## HalfAHertz (Mar 8, 2011)

*Console and PC gaming is dying *

I vote we rename the thread to "Console and PC gaming is dying " because Trip Hawkins said so! Yes the founder of EA thinks that the next big thing is your bowser. Apparently those things can be used for something else than p0rn, who would have thought? 



			
				Mr.Hawkins said:
			
		

> And it'll even enter new areas: "It will end up in my opinion very strong on the television. The browser is the platform of the future," Hawkins adds.





			
				Mr.Hawkins said:
			
		

> "Every company needs to be doing more to migrate," he adds. "I think every one of these big companies need to be doing more than they are."


----------



## Sasqui (Mar 8, 2011)

Not sure if this has been pointed out... but cell phones and tablets are becoming ubiquitous parts of our lives and will continue.

Myself, I'm now spending more time playing games on my Droid X than I do on my PC... with time, the tablets are going to eclipse the current mainstream gaming rig in horsepower and have less OS overhead (windows) to deal with.  They aren't there yet, but they will be.

You've been warned


----------



## DannibusX (Mar 8, 2011)

HalfAHertz said:


> I vote we rename the thread to "Console and PC gaming is dying " because Trip Hawkins said so! Yes the founder of EA thinks that the next big thing is your bowser. Apparently those things can be used for something else than p0rn, who would have thought?



My bowser was defeated in the 80's.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 8, 2011)

The future of gaming!


----------



## HalfAHertz (Mar 8, 2011)

browser* you friggin' spelling nazzis you...


----------



## DannibusX (Mar 8, 2011)

HalfAHertz said:


> browser* you friggin' spelling nazzis you...



It's actually Nazi.

But I won't correct you.


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 8, 2011)

DannibusX said:


> It's actually Nazi.
> 
> But I won't correct you.


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 9, 2011)

Ok, back on topic, this is the future of PC gaming:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSXyztq_0uM


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 9, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> Ok, back on topic, this is the future of PC gaming:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSXyztq_0uM



Looks like they are showing off the new DX11 extension with the Unreal engine. To bad the game will never look like that. The sad part is that it could.....but wont.


----------



## HalfAHertz (Mar 9, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> Ok, back on topic, this is the future of PC gaming:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSXyztq_0uM



Whoooa I  am sold! Gimme some UE3 loving!


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 9, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Looks like they are showing off the new DX11 extension with the Unreal engine. To bad the game will never look like that. The sad part is that it could.....but wont.



Game devs that work with the console platform in mind are holding back games for the PC that could/should/would look amazing


----------



## erixx (Mar 9, 2011)

You guys were saying "No advance untill consoles advance." Well, first rumours about next xBox are in.
Now checking that linkee.


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 9, 2011)

erixx said:


> You guys were saying "No advance untill consoles advance." Well, first rumours about next xBox are in.
> Now checking that linkee.



Only rumours about MS looking for people to start reseach into it.  No actual specs.

I can see why guys like MailMan get wound up.  PC gaming shouldn't be held back by the lack of current technology in current/next gen consoles.


----------



## BumbleBee (Mar 9, 2011)

erixx said:


> You guys were saying "No advance untill consoles advance." Well, first rumours about next xBox are in.
> Now checking that linkee.



it wont be launched for a couple years. 2014-2015.


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 9, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> it wont be launched for a couple years. probably 2015 tops.



Yep, keeping with the original 10 year plans: XBOX 720 in 2015 & PS4 in 2016


----------



## BumbleBee (Mar 9, 2011)

yeah.. I like my avatar more.


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 9, 2011)

erixx said:


> You guys were saying "No advance untill consoles advance." Well, first rumours about next xBox are in.
> Now checking that linkee.





HookeyStreet said:


> Only rumours about MS looking for people to start reseach into it.  No actual specs.



And they could be just going after their own tablet device or even their own SoC built for Win 8.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 9, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> And they could be just going after their own tablet device or even their own SoC built for Win 8.



Oh man that would be awesome! Then all the console people would be bitching how tablets are holding console innovation back!


----------



## jimmyme (Mar 9, 2011)

RO2:HoS will set the standard for online PC gaming in the near future. I cant say it well be amazingly ground-breakingly new but it will be something that we, as PC gamers see far too few of: A PC game!
Check out a writeup here:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/01/11/red-orchestra-2-heroes-of-stalingrad-preview/

Its my only "must-have" for PC this year. Skyrim probably aswell. I always wait for MOD tools to be announced cause then you know you will get a "real" PC gaming experience. 

As for the next revolution: No idea. -Id be happy for a decent spread of good PC games actually.

What ybout those "browser" games? Whats their future?

oops and i saw this video ages ago? Whats the deal with it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlMCToxlt1c&feature=related


----------



## BumbleBee (Mar 9, 2011)

I don't think people are going to drop what they are doing and build a PC for Red Orchestra lol that game is niche.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 9, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> I don't think people are going to drop what they are doing and build a PC for Red Orchestra lol that game is niche.



No but they are for BF3.


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 9, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Oh man that would be awesome! Then all the console people would be bitching how tablets are holding console innovation back!



Tablet gaming is for n00bs


----------



## cadaveca (Mar 9, 2011)

Certainty of PC gaming is by no means unclear, thread title FAIL!!!:



> Speaking with Gamasutra, EA Games Label president Frank Gibeau said *PC titles are quickly becoming a key component in his company's strategy. And over time, he can see the PC become the leading platform in EA's business.*





> In September, the NPD Group revealed that 11.2 million digital PC games were purchased online during the first six months of 2010. Just 8.2 million PC games were bought at retail outlets during the same period.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20041084-17.html#ixzz1G8IqAhFZ


----------



## HalfAHertz (Mar 9, 2011)

Seems we're not the only ones thinking consoles hold the graphics back: http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/...e-pc-is-making-consoles-look-out-of-date.aspx



> Epic showed off a version of its Unreal engine that it jokingly dubbed version 3.97. This was designed to give an idea what would be expected from the next generation of consoles, and was running *on three GeForce GTX 580 cards*


*gulp* umm tri sli for the extra eye candy? 



> There are many other indicators that the PC is coming back as a gaming platform. But considering that these leaps in eye candy are only possible with the current state of PC graphics we wonder how long consoles will be the target platform for development of blockbuster games.


----------



## CDdude55 (Mar 9, 2011)

It has nothing to do with Consoles holding back PC really, it has to do with the devs being lazy and instead copy and pasting everything onto the PC instead of optimizing their games for the platform. 

Consoles themselves don't hold back innovations on the PC, the devs do.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 9, 2011)

HalfAHertz said:


> Seems we're not the only ones thinking consoles hold the graphics back: http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/...e-pc-is-making-consoles-look-out-of-date.aspx
> 
> 
> *gulp* umm tri sli for the extra eye candy?



W1zz said the same thing in the 6990 xfire review.


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 9, 2011)

HalfAHertz said:


> Seems we're not the only ones thinking consoles hold the graphics back: http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/...e-pc-is-making-consoles-look-out-of-date.aspx
> 
> 
> *gulp* umm tri sli for the extra eye candy?



I't just marketing. Developers always use that kind of extreme PCs on their presentations. You probably don't need half of that much power.

And even if you do need that much power, going by previous releases, it's not until 18 months later that we start seeing games based on the new engine, so that means 2H 2012 and by that time we will probably have GTX7xx and HD8xxx on the market.


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 9, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> yeah.. I like my avatar more.
> 
> http://i54.tinypic.com/303dc48.png



The good ol' days m8! 

I was a fucking GOD on Super Mario Kart!!!!


----------



## BumbleBee (Mar 9, 2011)

BumbleBee has lots of beer in her house.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 9, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> BumbleBee has lots of beer in her house.



I doubt you want me in your house.


----------



## BumbleBee (Mar 9, 2011)

BumbleBee does not discriminate! I like human zits. it helps when there is a Beer store next to Gamestop.


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 10, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I doubt you want me in your house.
> 
> http://c0263062.cdn.cloudfiles.rack...f9a49b041365d2fae6025_3x2_jpg_300x200_q85.jpg



Do you look like John Belushi?  That would be great


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 10, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> Do you look like John Belushi?  That would be great



This is me in all my win!


----------



## Cold Storm (Mar 10, 2011)

Well, here's something for everyone to talk about..


PC gaming market is thriving, according to EA


----------



## BumbleBee (Mar 10, 2011)

only 3% of Bulletstorm sales are PC lol


----------



## Aceman.au (Mar 10, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> only 3% of Bulletstorm sales are PC lol



I didn't really hear much about it on the net (advertising). Maybe it was aimed @ console?


----------



## Cold Storm (Mar 10, 2011)

l33tGaMeR said:


> I didn't really hear much about it on the net (advertising). Maybe it was aimed @ console?



only demo that it had was on the ps3.. I liked the demo, didn't like the control of it via console.. If I'm playing FPS I like the mouse/keyboard or give me a xbox controller.. Never cared for FPS on the playstation.. this is coming from a person that has owned all 3 and gets more ps3 then xbox games..


----------



## Aceman.au (Mar 10, 2011)

Cold Storm said:


> only demo that it had was on the ps3.. I liked the demo, didn't like the control of it via console.. If I'm playing FPS I like the mouse/keyboard or give me a xbox controller.. Never cared for FPS on the playstation.. this is coming from a person that has owned all 3 and gets more ps3 then xbox games..



Haven't owned any other console since the PS2. Do not like consoles. Controller setup is retarded


----------



## ctrain (Mar 10, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> only 3% of Bulletstorm sales are PC lol



I'm not surprised. It wasn't a fantastic port, had no demo afaik, and no real advertising for PC.

Even fucking DragonAge 2 leaves a slight taste of port in my mouth. Granted they've streamlined a lot of potentially tedious stuff there's a lot of stuff that just says LAZY. The DX11 path is seriously iffy performance wise, textures are seriously AWFUL in some areas, and you see the same places over and over and over and over.

So far I've been through like 2 unique caves. Every other instance has just been the same thing mirrored or flipped. I don't know what the hell the artists were doing for this game but wtf. The amount of content reuse is bordering on comical.


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## Cold Storm (Mar 10, 2011)

l33tGaMeR said:


> Haven't owned any other console since the PS2. Do not like consoles. Controller setup is retarded



Yeah, I feel that some times they can be also.. But, it wasn't till I broke it off with my ex-finance did I even feel the want to play pc games.. Now, my ps3 just sits here collecting dust, and I semi-sold the 360..


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## BumbleBee (Mar 10, 2011)

ctrain said:


> I'm not surprised. It wasn't a fantastic port, had no demo afaik, and no real advertising for PC.
> 
> Even fucking DragonAge 2 leaves a slight taste of port in my mouth. Granted they've streamlined a lot of potentially tedious stuff there's a lot of stuff that just says LAZY.



what are PC Gamers going to do hate every release this year? I think the majority of multi-platform releases will be console ports.


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## Aceman.au (Mar 10, 2011)

Cold Storm said:


> Yeah, I feel that some times they can be also.. But, it wasn't till I broke it off with my ex-finance did I even feel the want to play pc games.. Now, my ps3 just sits here collecting dust, and I semi-sold the 360..



The PS2 was ok, anything after was just stupid. Xbox etc.


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## Cold Storm (Mar 10, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> what are PC Gamers going to do? hate every release this year? I think the majority of multi-platform releases will be console ports to a degree.



Your very right there.. Anything, anymore IMPO, that will have a console version, is going to have sort of "port" to the PC.. Yes, it shouldn't be that way.. But, you now looking at the factor, or at lease I am..

Everyone wants that COD type game out fast.. That way they don't "forget" the franchise.. so, their building it faster, and just making it for "one" instead of "two"..


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## HalfAHertz (Mar 10, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> This is me in all my win!
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/101230/p_00001.jpg



You remind me of someone...


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## Cold Storm (Mar 10, 2011)

HalfAHertz said:


> You remind me of someone...



I wish he would grow his hair out.. better yet.. I think I might have to drive up there, since I live a few hundred miles away, and get him to go to a store and to the "milk" scene.


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## Benetanegia (Mar 10, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> only 3% of Bulletstorm sales are PC lol



And Bulletstorm is the perfect example of a crappy console port. You cannot jump, you cannot fall through the various holes you encounter, shooting is almost secondary, game mechanic is broken,*, you nearly don't have any settings options, control scheme is clearly from consoles** and the worst of all, it comes with aiming assist (and enabled by default!). Oh and the "zoom" moments. 

* rewards are bigger for non-shooting kills like kicking them to the ubiquitous traps and most enemies are easier to kill this way (specially the mutants). I played 90% of the game without shooting a single bullet, except for the "too fast to grab" ones, I would shoot once at them to stun them and then kick.
** with many bindings having 2 different purposes and the annoying contextual buttons, not to mention the left/right weapon slots...

Bulletstorm is the perfect example of why console ports sell more on consoles than on PC. There's no single "cookie" for PC players. Now, don't get me wrong, the game itself is not complate garbage, it's actually fun to play and the campaign is long by today standards, which is a pleasant surprise. But if a PC gamer has to choose between buying Bulletstorm or buying the last STALKER game, Starcraft 2 or Shogun 2: TW, there's simply no contest.

And considering its outdated (yet beautiful) graphics are nowhere near close to the potential of PC and probably looks exactly the same as in consoles, someone with PC and console, will probably buy it for the console, because the game is 100% console anyway. And that's what we are telling all the time my friend, they are feeding us console games all the time and we want PC games.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 10, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> what are PC Gamers going to do hate every release this year? I think the majority of multi-platform releases will be console ports.



BF3 is a port down. So no one will be bitching about that one and honestly its the only title I care about this year.....well that and RO.


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## BumbleBee (Mar 10, 2011)

one title. not exactly 'healthy'.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 10, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> one title. not exactly 'healthy'.



Two titles * I * really want. There are other exclusives that are not my cup of tea.


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## WhiteLotus (Mar 10, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Two titles * I * really want. There are other exclusives that are not my cup of tea.



Sorry RO?

I'm not a fan of the BF/COD series but after seeing the game play trailer for BF, I WILL be getting that game.


The worse thing for PC gamers is that console gamers are keeping gaming technology back. If they released console every few years with better hardware I guarantee we wouldn't have this discussion


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 10, 2011)

WhiteLotus said:


> Sorry RO?
> 
> I'm not a fan of the BF/COD series but after seeing the game play trailer for BF, I WILL be getting that game.
> 
> ...



Red Orchestra 2

http://www.heroesofstalingrad.com/


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## wahdangun (Mar 10, 2011)

to be honest where the hell is mod, i mean the amount of insulting and derailing post in this thread is staggering.



BumbleBee said:


> one title. not exactly 'healthy'.



not one, BF3, homefront, TITAN MMO (from blizzard ), alice : madness. so don't spread BS please


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## BumbleBee (Mar 10, 2011)

welcome to TechPowerUp may I take your order?


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 10, 2011)

wahdangun said:


> to be honest where the hell is mod, i mean the amount of insulting and derailing post in this thread is staggering.
> 
> 
> 
> not one, BF3, homefront, TITAN MMO (from blizzard ), alice : madness. so don't spread BS please



What are you talking about man. There was some joking going around but no one was insulting to each other. If you have an issue you should report it.

I mean an example would be me vs. bumblebee and HookeyStreet. I mess with them and they mess with me. But its nothing personal. I mean really all we are talking about here is video games. Its not like we are saving the planet or anything.


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 10, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> This is me in all my win!
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/101230/p_00001.jpg



The strange thing is, I pictured you with panties on your head


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 10, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> The strange thing is, I pictured you with panties on your head



Thats me on a mission to save PC gaming. Failure is not an option.


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## CDdude55 (Mar 10, 2011)




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## HookeyStreet (Mar 10, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Thats me on a mission to save PC gaming. Failure is not an option.


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## Bjorn_Of_Iceland (Mar 10, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> What are you talking about man. There was some joking going around but no one was insulting to each other. If you have an issue you should report it.
> 
> I mean an example would be me vs. bumblebee and HookeyStreet. I mess with them and they mess with me. But its nothing personal. I mean really all we are talking about here is video games. Its not like we are saving the planet or anything.


Its a cultural gap thing


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## KyleReese (Mar 12, 2011)

Ha ha when I started this thread I never imagined it would get so irrelevant from my original post! I 've seen everything in here, from fighting matches videos to cheesecakes!!  it's got to be one of the most derailed threads here at TPU! 
My question wasn't whether PC gaming is dying or not, I refuse to believe that. Although I believe that it somehow lost some of its quality as a form of entertainment in human culture. What I mean by that is, 15 years ago I thought, with the progress in technology, we would see games that would rival e.g. good movies in terms of cultural impact, that people who are not into videogames would never say "they are just for teenagers, mostly" anymore. But it didn't happen.
From the looks of things seems PC gaming isn't dying, it's just following in the footsteps of consoles for now....(unfortunately!) But I, personally , am still waiting for that WOW factor again..that special feeling...that which I felt when I started playing games on the PC 16 years ago...


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## TIGR (Mar 12, 2011)

KyleReese said:


> Ha ha when I started this thread I never imagined it would get so irrelevant from my original post! I 've seen everything in here, from fighting matches videos to cheesecakes!!  it's got to be one of the most derailed threads here at TPU!
> My question wasn't whether PC gaming is dying or not, I refuse to believe that. Although I believe that it somehow lost some of its quality as a form of entertainment in human culture. What I mean by that is, 15 years ago I thought, with the progress in technology, we would see games that would rival e.g. good movies in terms of cultural impact, that people who are not into videogames would never say "they are just for teenagers, mostly" anymore. But it didn't happen.
> From the looks of things seems PC gaming isn't dying, it's just following in the footsteps of consoles for now....(unfortunately!) But I, personally , am still waiting for that WOW factor again..that special feeling...that which I felt when I started playing games on the PC 16 years ago...



I think PC gaming has a larger cultural impact than we give it credit for. It's not always direct and it's often subtle, but it's there and with time it will become more concrete and pervasive. More people are playing video games (and the average age of players is going up fast) every day. The content of the games themselves is evolving and new genres are being created while others are being blended into hybrid games, every couple years (which isn't that long given the time it takes a studio to develop a good game ... e.g. consider Fallout 3). Lastly, in this age of HD audio and video, and in which everyone seems to be a storyline critic and "realism" aficionado, I wouldn't expect much impact from non-immersive games; at the same time, _really_ immersive gaming is sometimes limited by hardware or economic restrictions.

Let's encourage developers and publishers to put out great games by voting with our wallets, and through discussions like this. Meanwhile, patience.


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## BumbleBee (Mar 12, 2011)

KyleReese said:


> Ha ha when I started this thread I never imagined it would get so irrelevant from my original post! I 've seen everything in here, from fighting matches videos to *cheesecakes!!*  it's got to be one of the most derailed threads here at TPU!
> My question wasn't whether PC gaming is dying or not, I refuse to believe that. Although I believe that it somehow lost some of its quality as a form of entertainment in human culture. What I mean by that is, 15 years ago I thought, with the progress in technology, we would see games that would rival e.g. good movies in terms of cultural impact, that people who are not into videogames would never say "they are just for teenagers, mostly" anymore. But it didn't happen.
> From the looks of things seems PC gaming isn't dying, it's just following in the footsteps of consoles for now....(unfortunately!) But I, personally , am still waiting for that WOW factor again..that special feeling...that which I felt when I started playing games on the PC 16 years ago...



don't be dogging cheesecake.


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 12, 2011)

KyleReese said:


> Ha ha when I started this thread I never imagined it would get so irrelevant from my original post! I 've seen everything in here, from *fighting matches videos *to cheesecakes!!  it's got to be one of the most derailed threads here at TPU!
> My question wasn't whether PC gaming is dying or not, I refuse to believe that. Although I believe that it somehow lost some of its quality as a form of entertainment in human culture. What I mean by that is, 15 years ago I thought, with the progress in technology, we would see games that would rival e.g. good movies in terms of cultural impact, that people who are not into videogames would never say "they are just for teenagers, mostly" anymore. But it didn't happen.
> From the looks of things seems PC gaming isn't dying, it's just following in the footsteps of consoles for now....(unfortunately!) But I, personally , am still waiting for that WOW factor again..that special feeling...that which I felt when I started playing games on the PC 16 years ago...



I will have you know that was some high quality MMA (Anderson Silva Vs Forrest Griffin)


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## KingPing (Mar 15, 2011)

As i already stated, console gaming (hardcore) is prone (if not more) to die, because there are more console casual gamers than PC casual gamer.

 Ex Sony Exec: "At the current rate of hardware refreshes, tablets could easily replace consoles, both handheld and mainstream."

sauce: http://www.tomsguide.com/us/iPad-2-Sony-NGP-Honeycomb-Nintendo-3DS-XOOM,news-10471.html

And this:

 Because of the quake, Sony's shares are down, and this is far from over. What if Sony have to restructure the company and delay even more the PS4 or cancel it. All this is hypothetical, but what i mean is that consoles have one manufacturer, because of this they are tied to the fate of that company, PC on the other hand have multiple manufacturers, if one disappear, another takes it place.


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## yogurt_21 (Mar 15, 2011)

KingPing said:


> As i already stated, console gaming (hardcore) is prone (if not more) to die, because there are more console casual gamers than PC casual gamer.


you've apparently never heard of facebook or flash.



KingPing said:


> Ex Sony Exec: "At the current rate of hardware refreshes, tablets could easily replace consoles, both handheld and mainstream."
> 
> sauce: http://www.tomsguide.com/us/iPad-2-Sony-NGP-Honeycomb-Nintendo-3DS-XOOM,news-10471.html


don't buy it at this point tablets are just phones with larger screens. For the same cost of a tablet where 1 person can play 4 can play on a console. not to mention the fact that current gen consoles will kick the xoom's/ipad's ass in graphics power. That's 5 year old console vs 2 week old tablet

I just don't see tablets taking over that market. they're completly different in purpose. now if you were to say tablets vs handheld games, maybe. but even then sony and nintendo have the edge on those markets with slews of titles for them.


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 15, 2011)

KingPing said:


> As i already stated, console gaming (hardcore) is prone (if not more) to die.


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## KingPing (Mar 15, 2011)

yogurt_21 said:


> you've apparently never heard of facebook or flash.


 
 Yes i do, but (maybe not in this forum) console gamers don't see them as real gaming, it seems all that matter are AAA games. Because of that they claim consoles have more exclusives titles http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AriQpIFbPoEacGM1b0xxcGVucFQ3OFc4N3BNZmd2QkE&gid=0





yogurt_21 said:


> don't buy it at this point tablets are just phones with larger screens. For the same cost of a tablet where 1 person can play 4 can play on a console. not to mention the fact that current gen consoles will kick the xoom's/ipad's ass in graphics power. That's 5 year old console vs 2 week old tablet
> 
> I just don't see tablets taking over that market. they're completly different in purpose. now if you were to say tablets vs handheld games, maybe. but even then sony and nintendo have the edge on those markets with slews of titles for them.



 The post is about PC gaming dying, and that's not going to happen in  a year or two, ( if it happens at all)  the same as tablets  (or phones) won't take over the market in a year or two. Of course that hardcore gamers won't play on tablets, but some casual gamers will choose a tablet, a phone, or onlive over a console. 

 "not to mention the fact that current gen consoles will kick the xoom's/ipad's ass in graphics power. That's 5 year old console vs 2 week old tablet"

If graphics were that important, people would choose a PC.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Mar 16, 2011)

The future of gaming in itself is going to go downhill if these lazy devs keep going they way they are. There hasnt been an innovated game for a long time!!!

I really dont like how the gaming industry and basically everything else has become all about money rather then the quality, if you guys know what i mean. Like look at Activision and CoD. that series is the money cow for Activision and they havent released a single game that is at any degree different in gameplay/mechanics, graphics, etc. then CoD and they are still releasing the games at the full $60


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## BumbleBee (Mar 16, 2011)

nvidiaintelftw said:


> The future of gaming in itself is going to go downhill if these lazy devs keep going they way they are. There hasnt been an innovated game for a long time!!!
> 
> I really dont like how the gaming industry and basically everything else has become all about money rather then the quality, if you guys know what i mean. Like look at Activision and CoD. that series is the money cow for Activision and they havent released a single game that is at any degree different in gameplay/mechanics, graphics, etc. then CoD and they are still releasing the games at the full $60



it's always been like that.



> There were several reasons for the crash, but the main cause was supersaturation of the market with hundreds of mostly low-quality games which resulted in the loss of consumer confidence.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_video_game_crash_of_1983


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## Dos101 (Mar 22, 2011)

Not sure if anyone has linked this already:

http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/1578/article/microsoft-shares-its-vision-of-the-future-of-pc-gaming/

Quite a dim future in my opinion.


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## CDdude55 (Mar 22, 2011)

Dos101 said:


> Not sure if anyone has linked this already:
> 
> http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/1578/article/microsoft-shares-its-vision-of-the-future-of-pc-gaming/
> 
> Quite a dim future in my opinion.



Well Microsoft isn't the end all be all developer for PC games. As long as we have solid developers that continue to make great games while managing to avoid creating generic, casual and mundane looking online communities like Microsoft is trying to do then i see no reason to worry really.


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## BumbleBee (Mar 22, 2011)

Dos101 said:


> Not sure if anyone has linked this already:
> 
> http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/1578/article/microsoft-shares-its-vision-of-the-future-of-pc-gaming/
> 
> Quite a dim future in my opinion.


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