# Has everyone read:  Reasons We Share Personal Data section in Windows 10 Microsoft Privacy Statement



## skippy258 (Aug 3, 2015)

Ok when we installed windows 10 on our first system it did not show any Microsoft Privacy Statement so I have been reading it, and found this interesting.

After reading the Microsoft Privacy Statement  now.... I most likely would not of upgraded the system for her.

Link to Microsoft Privacy Statement:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement/default.aspx

*Reasons We Share Personal Data
*
We share your personal data with your consent or as necessary to complete any transaction or provide any service you have requested or authorized. For example, we share your content with third parties when you tell us to do so, such as when you send an email to a friend, share photos and documents on OneDrive, or link accounts with another service. When you provide payment data to make a purchase, we will share payment data with banks and other entities that process payment transactions or provide other financial services, and for fraud prevention and credit risk reduction. 

In addition, we share personal data among Microsoft-controlled affiliates and subsidiaries. We also share personal data with vendors or agents working on our behalf for the purposes described in this statement. For example, companies we've hired to provide customer service support or assist in protecting and securing our systems and services may need access to personal data in order to provide those functions. In such cases, these companies must abide by our data privacy and security requirements and are not allowed to use personal data they receive from us for any other purpose. We may also disclose personal data as part of a corporate transaction such as a merger or sale of assets.

*Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to:
*

*comply with applicable law or respond to valid legal process, including from law enforcement or other government agencies; *
*protect our customers, for example to prevent spam or attempts to defraud users of the services, or to help prevent the loss of life or serious injury of anyone; *
*operate and maintain the security of our services, including to prevent or stop an attack on our computer systems or networks; or *
*protect the rights or property of Microsoft, including enforcing the terms governing the use of the services - however, if we receive information indicating that someone is using our services to traffic in stolen intellectual or physical property of Microsoft, we will not inspect a customer's private content ourselves, but we may refer the matter to law enforcement. *
Please note that some of our services include links to services of third parties whose privacy practices differ from Microsoft's. If you provide personal data to any of those services, your data is governed by their privacy statements.


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## Tatty_One (Aug 3, 2015)

Whilst I don't like it, this is not new to Microsoft or Windows 10, I just googled "Microsoft  Privacy statement for Windows 7" and a load of stuff came up, on checking some of the links out the wording is very similar to what you have posted.


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## natr0n (Aug 3, 2015)




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## skippy258 (Aug 3, 2015)

Tatty_One said:


> Whilst I don't like it, this is not new to Microsoft or Windows 10, I just googled "Microsoft  Privacy statement for Windows 7" and a load of stuff came up, on checking some of the links out the wording is very similar to what you have posted.



Might be just me, but the wording is like they _disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders) _like there got a image backup of your hard drive back at Micro$oft.


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## natr0n (Aug 3, 2015)

I Just use the OS for performance, without any of the features/bells whistles.

Sign in with a local non email account and disable everything in privacy look though all the tabs.


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## Ferrum Master (Aug 3, 2015)

So what? Troll alert? 

Just don't do damn shady stuff on your PC... Ain't that too complicated or what? Putting theft warez etc child pr0n on Microsoft server... is bland stupidity and must be punished...  there for this agreement lies there.

So chaps... are you seriously thinking somebody really cares for your porn habits? Get real... 

If you are so afraid use Gentoo and compile by checking each line of the code by yourself?


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## FordGT90Concept (Aug 3, 2015)

Most of the privacy options exist because of Cortana.  Case in point: if you tell Cortana to remind you to kill [contact] at [time]; Microsoft may forward it to law enforcement.

If you don't want Microsoft spying on you, you'll have to disable Cortana.




Ferrum Master said:


> So chaps... are you seriously thinking somebody really cares for your porn habits? Get real...


If you have a history of looking at child porn, Microsoft may be obligated to notify law enforcement especially if Microsoft is served a warrant.


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## skippy258 (Aug 3, 2015)

Ferrum Master said:


> So what? Troll alert?
> 
> Just don't do damn shady stuff on your PC... Ain't that too complicated or what? Putting theft warez etc child pr0n on Microsoft server... is bland stupidity and must be punished...  there for this agreement lies there.
> 
> ...




private emails, other private communications or files in private folders has nothing to do with shady stuff like your saying, we are entitle to some privacy by default  I think.


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## FordGT90Concept (Aug 3, 2015)

I actually wish Microsoft would look at my emails to stop the spam.  God I hate spam.


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## OneMoar (Aug 3, 2015)

nobody reads thats the problem


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## jsfitz54 (Aug 3, 2015)

skippy258 said:


> We may also disclose personal data as part of a corporate transaction such as a merger or sale of assets.



This above, is the most alarming.  Example: MS has a server farm and wants to sell its older storage drives with X amount of use hours (maintenance) to a marketing firm.

The scope is much to large.


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## Uplink10 (Aug 10, 2015)

This says it all:


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## EarthDog (Aug 10, 2015)

OneMoar said:


> nobody reads thats the problem


Thanked and QFT. 

We have a HUGE thread at OCF about this.. TONS of tin foil hats there, most of which was because they did not read and or comprehend what they are reading...


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## qubit (Aug 10, 2015)

I see that Microsoft have heard of user privacy. 

That's a great infographic there, @Uplink10


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## OneMoar (Aug 10, 2015)

Uplink10 said:


> This says it all:


what in the fuck is that
a 5 year old with safety scissors could make a diagram that makes more sense


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## xorbe (Aug 10, 2015)

This is the beginning of the end of using MS products for my desktop OS.  I don't use my smart phone (data, apps) much due to privacy concerns, and I am certainly not letting this attitude onto my main workstation.  Finally I will be forced into using Linux on the metal and booting Windows in VirtualBox instead.  My data doesn't need to live remotely, and my information doesn't need to be data mined.


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## EarthDog (Aug 10, 2015)

Disable the options upon install. If you are upset at this, you should also be upset with Google... their policies are actually worse, and with fewer options to disable.


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## TheMailMan78 (Aug 10, 2015)

Who cares. The second I connect that ethernet cord to the back of my PC I assume zero privacy.

Crime 101. Rule 1: If you are going to do anything shady, don't plan or talk about it on "The Grid". No phones, No email, No internet.

Seriously if you think you are important enough to "spy" on you are already braking the rule and deserve to be caught. F#$K even 1930's gangsters knew enough to not plan crap over land lines yet people think they are "anonymous" on the F#$king internet. Grow up neck beards.


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## erocker (Aug 10, 2015)

I would be honored if Microsoft or the NSA thought I was important enough to spy on.

*Puts on shades and cues Mission Impossible soundtrack on my boom box.*



TheMailMan78 said:


> Who cares. The second I connect that ethernet cord to the back of my PC I assume zero privacy.
> 
> Crime 101. Rule 1: If you are going to do anything shady, don't plan or talk about it on "The Grid". No phones, No email, No internet.
> 
> Seriously if you think you are important enough to "spy" on you are already braking the rule and deserve to be caught. F#$K even 1930's gangsters knew enough to not plan crap over land lines yet people think they are "anonymous" on the F#$king internet. Grow up neck beards.



Time to cut the afro off dude. It makes you hot and sweaty and you become ornery.


Here.... Have a Snickers.


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## TheMailMan78 (Aug 10, 2015)

erocker said:


> I would be honored if Microsoft or the NSA thought I was important enough to spy on.
> 
> *Puts on shades and cues Mission Impossible soundtrack on my boom box.*


You are already a founding member of Deez Nutz. Plenty of BS to spy on just from one GTA session.


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## erocker (Aug 10, 2015)

But that Russian guy said that money he was shooting at me with a fake clown gun was legit?!?!!!


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## TheMailMan78 (Aug 10, 2015)

Thanks for the Snickers man. Much better......


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## qubit (Aug 10, 2015)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Who cares. The second I connect that ethernet cord to the back of my PC I assume zero privacy.
> 
> Crime 101. Rule 1: If you are going to do anything shady, don't plan or talk about it on "The Grid". No phones, No email, No internet.
> 
> Seriously if you think you are important enough to "spy" on you are already braking the rule and deserve to be caught. F#$K even 1930's gangsters knew enough to not plan crap over land lines yet people think they are "anonymous" on the F#$king internet. Grow up neck beards.


It's a shame, but true. Connect to the internet and one is spied on six ways to Sunday.  It doesn't matter if one uses Linux either, as there are plenty of ways to spy on us without the OS being in on it, although it helps.


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## xorbe (Aug 11, 2015)

We need to stop calling them Personal Computers (PCs) ...


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## broken pixel (Aug 11, 2015)

Welcome to the Oligarchy is the new Welcome to the Machine.


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## Uplink10 (Aug 11, 2015)

OneMoar said:


> what in the fuck is that
> a 5 year old with safety scissors could make a diagram that makes more sense


I know, I found it in the comments on some news site, I think it is also somewhere on Reddit.



xorbe said:


> Finally I will be forced into using Linux on the metal and booting Windows in VirtualBox instead.


I am also planning to do that before support for Windows 8.1 ends, good thing is games are coming to Linux and even the AAA titles. And VirtualBox 5 supports USB 3.0 and paravirtualization (choose betwen Hyper-V, KVM). It is going to be pretty hard to decide betwen Xfce/KDE and which distribution.


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## Solaris17 (Aug 11, 2015)

I love all the hate on Microsoft about windows 10. Its like you people didn't expect this or it was slid under your nose. or masqueraded as a Christmas gift. Do you really like hating Microsoft that much that you have some how managed to forget the EULAs that have taken pretty much everything you think your entitled to "own" online?

BING
GOOGLE
AOL
YAHOO
All major search engines
Facebook
myspace
APPLE
MICROSOFT
SAMSUNG
KEYOCERA
MOTOROLA
SONY
NINTENDO
Pretty much all online games keep a log of pretty much everything you ever do or say.
KASPERSKY
AVAST
NORTON
CARBONITE
ESET
some of these programs scan your PC and report whats installed directories etc.


I dont see a ridiculous amount of trash threads on any of those companies.

some of this oversightedness is making you look pretty silly. You guys belive in lizard people and HAARP too right? chem trails too.


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## Liquid Cool (Aug 11, 2015)

This invasion of privacy actually keeps me up at night, yet many of you gentlemen consider it a joke.  I was happy to cut the cable cord, but I'm thinking of cutting the internet cord as well.  "This" isn't what I envisioned when  I first hopped on the 'net in '92 using command line.  It's turned into a nightmare for privacy and frankly it seems like quite a few of you that understand what is going on here are quite ok with it.  This concerns me greatly.

I'm in the wrong place, you won't see me here again.

Best Regards,

Liquid Cool


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## R-T-B (Aug 11, 2015)

Ferrum Master said:


> So what? Troll alert?
> 
> Just don't do damn shady stuff on your PC... Ain't that too complicated or what? Putting theft warez etc child pr0n on Microsoft server... is bland stupidity and must be punished...  there for this agreement lies there.
> 
> ...



As much as I am not concerned by Windows 10 privacy (you can turn it off for the most part anyhow), that is probably the worst argument for it you could formulate.  The worst enemy of privacy is people asking "what do you have to hide?" when you request it.  It should be an expected right, not an oddball privilege.  It's NOT just for people surfing kiddy porn.  It's for your grandparents whose credit card numbers get stored and subsequently hacked.  Think about it.

And I for one have nothing to hide...  but that doesn't make my data any less private.


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## TheMailMan78 (Aug 11, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> As much as I am not concerned by Windows 10 privacy (you can turn it off for the most part anyhow), that is probably the worst argument for it you could formulate.  The worst enemy of privacy is people asking "what do you have to hide?" when you request it.  It should be an expected right, not an oddball privilege.  It's NOT just for people surfing kiddy porn.  It's for your grandparents whose credit card numbers get stored and subsequently hacked.  Think about it.
> 
> And I for one have nothing to hide...  but that doesn't make my data any less private.


Nothing is private the second you get on the net.


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## 95Viper (Aug 11, 2015)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Nothing is private the second you get on the net.



+1 on that... and, to add to it.
Nothing is private anywhere or anytime anymore, on or off the net.
"They" can watch/hear you anytime... "They" have eyes and ears everywhere.
If "They" deem you important enough to be a problem/nuisance/threat.

EDIT:
Yes, I am invested in the tin foil markets.


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## Caring1 (Aug 11, 2015)

95Viper said:


> +1 on that... and, to add to it.
> Nothing is private anywhere or anytime anymore, on or off the net.
> "They" can watch/hear you anytime... "They" have eyes and ears everywhere.
> If "They" deem you important enough to be a problem/nuisance/threat.
> ...


I see that outlook as being a realist, not paranoid.


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## Tatty_One (Aug 11, 2015)

95Viper said:


> +1 on that... and, to add to it.
> Nothing is private anywhere or anytime anymore, on or off the net.
> "They" can watch/hear you anytime... "They" have eyes and ears everywhere.
> If "They" deem you important enough to be a problem/nuisance/threat.
> ...


My daughter is one of "they", the capacity for any targeted approach to the masses is well over exaggerated to be honest and whilst there is no doubt that the means are there I think that their use is again well exaggerated, often used as propaganda along the lines of telling everyone what they can do so many will just assume that they are doing.  As for me I have no real concerns although I acknowledge the concerns of others, I have nothing to hide and therefore nothing to find.  if our governments are paying "operatives" a lot of money to check my progress in World of Tanks online then that's a job I should be applying for


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## Laughing_Beast (Aug 11, 2015)

Solaris17 said:


> I dont see a ridiculous amount of trash threads on any of those companies.



Exactly.


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## Caring1 (Aug 11, 2015)

Tatty_One said:


> if our governments are paying "operatives" a lot of money to check my progress in World of Tanks online then that's a job I should be applying for


Maybe they don't have operatives investigating everything we do online, but if ever your name or something you do triggers their interest, they will have all they need to investigate.


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## Tatty_One (Aug 11, 2015)

Caring1 said:


> Maybe they don't have operatives investigating everything we do online, but if ever your name or something you do triggers their interest, they will have all they need to investigate.


Well that's the thing, I don't disagree with you but some seem to think there are like 500 people there just waiting to jump on a trigger, it's just not like that, resources are very stretched, especially in the current security climate, bigger fish to fry and all that.  Yes of course they have the ability to do intelligent scans and keyword searches probably filtered and analysed by software, I just don't think it's a round the clock activity where large amounts of resource are spent on it but even my knowledge is not that specific.  In this particular topic though, I have a feeling it's less about "they" and more about what Microsoft wants, if security agencies have to rely on Microsoft exclusively then arguably we are all in trouble!


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## 95Viper (Aug 11, 2015)

Please, don't misunderstand my meaning of "They".

To me, some,  "They" means...

A.  The nosey busy bodies who have to intrude on your every move, because, they are what they are.
B.  The person who hacks you 'cause they can.
C.  The ones with the drones that will splatter the video of you all over the internet/media.
D.  The governments who are, possibly, more paranoid than the people they intrude upon.
E.  The jealous neighbors, who cannot stand you have a life and they don't.
F.  The ones who steal you personal info/wealth/identity, because, they are to worthless to get there own.
G.  The media, 'cause it makes ratings.
H.  The sickies who would hijack your cameras (whether, in a PC, standalone, etc.) to get their perverted thrills.
I.  Businesses who cull your information for gain. (Microsoft is one of these; as are a multitude of other businesses)
J.  Etcetera

"They" does not necessarily need to be a government to invade/violate your privacy.
They are just one part of "They".


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## pigulici (Aug 11, 2015)

Win 10 , for now, it just a big mess, and as more people look under the hood, find more mess...I think that M$ can do what they want with their OS, the big problem I find to be the lies about this OS(lies through omission, like was that "faster" boot from Win8(in fact was sleep/hibernate thing)). And the fact that Windows have dominant position as OS on PC, did not help us, at some point we have to use this OS(I use Photoshop for money so I must stay with Windows, I can't do so much with Gimp+linux(for now)). Well , at least I have a year of "free" upgrade, for sure, this year my Win 7 will stay...
What I find another problem for customer security , are the ads(like one from solitaire game), just read some days ago that the ads from yahoo mail was infected with virus software, at least for a week before the yahoo admins find and stop(and it is not first time, if you search about it), and today I read about : "Major Firefox vulnerability lets hackers steal your files using dodgy web ads" (link: http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/c...09-givb77.html ), so this is another hole in my security pc, just that M$ get more money...
I understand why M$ did the new OS as a tool to gather info about all a user do, especially when you remember how close are M$ to NSA(or any agency of any "free" state), they do same thing Ceausescu did in my country in communism era: gather any info about anybody, encourage anybody to speak about anybody, use police for that if people don't give themselves enough nasty info, put all in folder, so anybody in that period have a personal folder with info about them, and if anybody don't want to do something(most because of moral decision), the secret police get out some nasty info to convince you(like:"what your wife or familly will say about some declarations we have, that at a party, 5 yrs ago , when you was drunk and your wife home and pregnant , you said to a friend that you just bang the secretary and was better than with your wife"), before put you a gun on head if still not want to do it. Think about, what power can have someone who knew(and have some proofs) about some of your mistakes from past, some you even don't remember, and even if you don't care much or shame about it, the others will banish you if knew about it, and the change of place will not help you to start a new life...And the thinking like "I don't care about privacy because I have nothing to hide" it is so wrong on so many levels that I find hard to belive people are think like this; guys, wake up, the gov, the national agency, or any big corporate are made of people like me and you, the gov it is not some holy saints group, are people, like me and you, and people do make mistakes, some do deliberate. They (gov+agency+big corporate+hackers...) gather as much data about anybody, as they can , not as legal it is allowed, their problems it is that it is so much data, that it is hard to pint-point to something, for next few years they have no means(hardware and logical side) to make use/sort of this big gathered data on one individual(and the NSA told that some years ago, when voices rise about that general gather of data from internet), they don't hurry to resolve that for now, because if they want to spy some individual , they can do it without all that big general data. Think about , how the internet was invented, as open transfer of data between station, open internet,without encryption, anyone see anyone, was deliberate this way, and don't tell me that Pentagon was stupid, it is not that much stupid, even Caesar some 2000yrs ago use encryption for messagess with his generals; we can use actual hardware and some minimal software to have encrypted internet(was already demonstrate years ago), but none of decisional party(gov, agency, etc) want that, and people are too lazy to care for now, they try to show us that they patch the holes in internet/software security, like you can give medicine to died monkey to run faster, they don't want a new secure internet, some of us use VPN, but it is not enough when the SO send info about you...I am not paranoic, but I refuse to belive the lies, I use what it is now, but at least I know in real what it is... dark times are come for human soul...


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## R-T-B (Aug 11, 2015)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Nothing is private the second you get on the net.



That's a fact but hardly a moral argument.  My point was that you should not argue for the status quo, but against it.


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## Tatty_One (Aug 11, 2015)

Pretty much all of A - I is illegal activity to one degree or another in most countries and whilst I fully agree it's still an absolute invasion of privacy personally I am more concerned about "they" who think they can do it legally, they are the ones we really need to watch, but again, if there is nothing to find they will soon get bored and they will surely get distracted if their house should burn down in the middle of the night


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## TheMailMan78 (Aug 11, 2015)

Tatty_One said:


> My daughter is one of "they", the capacity for any targeted approach to the masses is well over exaggerated to be honest and whilst there is no doubt that the means are there I think that their use is again well exaggerated, often used as propaganda along the lines of telling everyone what they can do so many will just assume that they are doing.  As for me I have no real concerns although I acknowledge the concerns of others, I have nothing to hide and therefore nothing to find.  if our governments are paying "operatives" a lot of money to check my progress in World of Tanks online then that's a job I should be applying for


Meh, you're British. You have put up with your governments crap. Its like a national pride thing to take it in the preverbal rear. America was founded for terrorists by terrorists (Before anyone freaks out my family has a long history of rebellion. I'm a proud American to the core.) We here in the states are having a hard time adjusting to this whole "Patriot act" garbage. We liked our illusion of privacy before the whole Snowden thing went down. We are having a hard time coming to grips with the fact we live in a "Big Brother" state like you wankers across the pond. So let the conspiracies fly! Never mind the actual logistics of watching everyone's porn habits.

I imagine in a few more years once the baby boomers are all dead people will just assume being watched and being controlled is how things are supposed to be. THEN the real fireworks will begin. You'll always have guys like me who go against the grain but, by then we will be REALLY unpopular. I'm talking uniform and train car unpopular lol.



Tatty_One said:


> Pretty much all of A - I is illegal activity to one degree or another in most countries and whilst I fully agree it's still an absolute invasion of privacy personally I am more concerned about "they" who think they can do it legally, they are the ones we really need to watch, but again, if there is nothing to find they will soon get bored and they will surely get distracted if their house should burn down in the middle of the night


Its not a matter of "finding things". Its a matter of using innocent private info against you. Blackmail and such. We already have cases here in the US of "Homeland Security" agents (Still sounds like Russian propaganda to me) using info to crush romantic rivals in the civilian world. You know what? They didn't even lose their jobs for doing it. To me that's what is scary. Lone government agents taking it upon themselves to deem what is moral and what isn't.



R-T-B said:


> That's a fact but hardly a moral argument.  My point was that you should not argue for the status quo, but against it.


Argue what? Nothing can be done at this point. Only thing that can be done is to adapt to the system. If you think the system will adapt to you well.......I wouldn't hold your breath.


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## Tatty_One (Aug 11, 2015)

I would suggest that we British have greater transparency here than you have over the pond, I agree that the level of that transparency is very gray but yours has appeared very dark in recent years.  We don't actually put up with the "crap" don't confuse shouting very loud and not getting heard with whispering quietly and not getting heard   Again I would only add to this that I don't believe it's endemic, yes of course it happens but I don't think on the scale that some would suggest.


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## TheMailMan78 (Aug 11, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> That's a fact but hardly a moral argument.  My point was that you should not argue for the status quo, but against it.





Tatty_One said:


> I would suggest that we British have greater transparency here than you have over the pond, I agree that the level of that transparency is very gray but yours has appeared very dark in recent years.  We don't actually put up with the "crap" don't confuse shouting very loud and not getting heard with whispering quietly and not getting heard   Again I would only add to this that I don't believe it's endemic, yes of course it happens but I don't think on the scale that some would suggest.


I fully agree. My point is its more of a culture shock here in the states. A lot of illusion has been shattered since 9-11. Americans are not used to an NSA spying on its own citizens. Not that it wasn't happening before. It just wasn't as in the open as it is now. Personally I think its great. I have been enjoying the show. I knew since I was a small boy people in large groups (Government, Schools, Employers) become idiots. I think its a riot people actually believe that they are important enough to spy on and JUST NOW they figured out the "man" is watching them since Snowden.

Its a real shock to people here in the states man. Britain has a history of being more in acceptance of these kind of acts. Of course given that nations history it really is to be expected. Your an island nation. A government on an island has to keep a tight ship.


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## Tatty_One (Aug 11, 2015)

I think we invented spies, the King was not getting enough taxes in around 1000 years ago so sent spies out to all the major population areas to "monitor" the peasants, then Robin Hood came along and everyone knows the story from there on in.


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## Vayra86 (Aug 11, 2015)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Meh, you're British. You have put up with your governments crap. Its like a national pride thing to take it in the preverbal rear. America was founded for terrorists by terrorists (Before anyone freaks out my family has a long history of rebellion. I'm a proud American to the core.) We here in the states are having a hard time adjusting to this whole "Patriot act" garbage. We liked our illusion of privacy before the whole Snowden thing went down. We are having a hard time coming to grips with the fact we live in a "Big Brother" state like you wankers across the pond. So let the conspiracies fly! Never mind the actual logistics of watching everyone's porn habits.
> 
> I imagine in a few more years once the baby boomers are all dead people will just assume being watched and being controlled is how things are supposed to be. THEN the real fireworks will begin. You'll always have guys like me who go against the grain but, by then we will be REALLY unpopular. I'm talking uniform and train car unpopular lol.
> 
> ...



This is logic that cannot be argued with.

However I would add that there ARE numerous groups that are actively working to prevent or diminish the privacy breaches that are so rampant these days, and they do have their successes from time to time. Baby steps. But the governments are making strides in the other direction as well...

Either way it is a hot topic and Snowden is just the tip of the iceberg too.

You should come take a look over here in the Netherlands. Last year, our government adopted a system that connects the data from all government branches that deal with the data of the Dutch people to spy for possible breaches of legislation. For example, do you pay tax, and is that tax sufficient for your income, and is that income realistic for what you are actually doing, and is that car you drive even possible with the income you earn.

And us Dutch, what did we do? We didn't even fucking notice. People here walk around with their eyes closed and their hands on their ears. It's a level of ignorance I am extremely concerned about. We haven't learned shit from the second World War, where suddenly whole groups of people were forced to wear this little star so they could be deported elsewhere.

Looking forward to a great future of indoctrination and manipulation, but then again, it's never really been much different, just the toolset is getting more and more refined.


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## TheMailMan78 (Aug 11, 2015)

Vayra86 said:


> This is logic that cannot be argued with.
> 
> However I would add that there ARE numerous groups that are actively working to prevent or diminish the privacy breaches that are so rampant these days, and they do have their successes from time to time. Baby steps. But the governments are making strides in the other direction as well...
> 
> ...


I agree with both of you guys.......with that being said I think we have not only proven this whole MS thing to be small potato's but completely derailed this thread into oblivion! lol

I'm moving on gentlemen! Good debate/conversation.


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## Vayra86 (Aug 11, 2015)

It is always good to derail tinfoil threads to avoid total disaster and armageddon.


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## R-T-B (Aug 11, 2015)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I fully agree. My point is its more of a culture shock here in the states. A lot of illusion has been shattered since 9-11. Americans are not used to an NSA spying on its own citizens. Not that it wasn't happening before. It just wasn't as in the open as it is now. Personally I think its great. I have been enjoying the show. I knew since I was a small boy people in large groups (Government, Schools, Employers) become idiots. I think its a riot people actually believe that they are important enough to spy on and JUST NOW they figured out the "man" is watching them since Snowden.
> 
> Its a real shock to people here in the states man. Britain has a history of being more in acceptance of these kind of acts. Of course given that nations history it really is to be expected. Your an island nation. A government on an island has to keep a tight ship.



I fully agree it's a culture shock here in the states and has been going on far longer than most realize.  My vision is more utopian than practical, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be fought for.  Utopian visions should always be fought for, even if completely unattainable. 



TheMailMan78 said:


> Argue what? Nothing can be done at this point. Only thing that can be done is to adapt to the system. If you think the system will adapt to you well.......I wouldn't hold your breath.



I didn't say it would change anything, but blatantly arguing for it as the poster I originally quoted was is just silly.  You seem to forget where this quote stream originated.


----------



## broken pixel (Aug 12, 2015)

Nikola Tesla tried to turn the tides of the Industrial Revolution using the laws of resonance.
http://www.abundance-and-happiness.com/law-of-resonance.html

Sorry! Off topic, thoughts before the actual though for this thread.

Smell that? You smell that? Privacy, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of privacy data transferring in & out of Microsoft servers in the morning. You know, one time we had private data, for 24 hours. When it was all over, I logged in. We found holes in the OS, every stinkin' peace of binary data was being shared to third parties for profit. The smell, you know that profit smell, the whole worlds data shifting throughout Microsoft data centers. Smelled like... Chaos. Someday this corporatism will end..."

Cue Ride of the Valkyrie by that dude Richard Wagner,
jMa


----------



## Blue-Knight (Aug 15, 2015)

Solaris17 said:


> BING
> GOOGLE
> AOL
> YAHOO
> ...


From that list, I just use Google.



R-T-B said:


> The worst enemy of privacy is people asking "what do you have to hide?"


Well, as no one is going to answer this I will:



> What do you have to hide?


I have many things to hide, but the main focus is my personal data. No way I will keep a backup of that in the cloud or anywhere on the internet, not even encrypted.

Things I (try) to hide from the general public while I am in computer connected to internet include: Location, real name, preferences, my physical appearance, certain opinions and other things.

It is OK if Google knows about it (it is providing free services I use)... I would be worried if that info becomes exposed to the ordinary public (e.g. techpowerup members). But it is the risk I have to take and I consider it minimal, I'd say I would be fine if all of that is leaked anyway. About passwords, unauthorized access to my accounts and credit cards I couldn't care less (very hard to happen anyway).

But what Microsoft wants with my data? They will probably sell everything to the legal or illegal market and maybe for evil things, monopoly maintenance, etc...

For the people who paid for Windows, if you think you "love" microsoft so much to give away your personal information and still pay for this for them to profit...

Well, I would think more if I were you... Windows is not a free service (yet). In the end, you have the right to choose. LOL!


----------



## dorsetknob (Aug 15, 2015)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Its not a matter of "finding things". Its a matter of using innocent private info against you. Blackmail and such. We already have cases here in the US of "Homeland Security" agents (Still sounds like Russian propaganda to me) using info to crush romantic rivals in the civilian world. You know what? They didn't even lose their jobs for doing it. To me that's what is scary. Lone government agents taking it upon themselves to deem what is moral and what isn't.



you have to consider the future as well
Why not be paranoid   we know they are watching us

events that happen now do matter Laws Change and info gathered now may be used against you next year or some time in the future
Example
You go online today to defend your GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS

2 years time when that right is removed OBunnywabet's amendment change or President Rupal repeals your right to bear arms
then the NSA /FBI / CIA /ATF trawl their database and look   "a gun nut   lets send in a armed Swat Team to Search to see if he got guns"  oh he is black carefull not to shoot him (Smirk ).

Wont Happen you Say well its happened here in the uk allready

once upon a time japanese art called Henta / manga  you know sword wielding japanese scantly clad CARTOON Pictures of girls were legal to posses ( never saw the appeal of cartoon porn myself ).
Law about porn changed  now they class them as child porn and not art if you were in to Henta / manga  and you downloaded art ect   your now a criminal

YES A CRIM of THE WORSE SORT 
those download records of yesteryear/ now can be used as evidence for search *seizure* and  prosecution today.

go to copenhagen and photograph this





Under British law this Could now be classified as child porn

Mod edit to remove if you feel its necessary


----------



## broken pixel (Aug 15, 2015)

https://duckduckgo.com


----------



## qubit (Aug 15, 2015)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Its not a matter of "finding things". Its a matter of using innocent private info against you. Blackmail and such. We already have cases here in the US of "Homeland Security" agents (Still sounds like Russian propaganda to me) using info to crush romantic rivals in the civilian world. You know what? They didn't even lose their jobs for doing it. To me that's what is scary. Lone government agents taking it upon themselves to deem what is moral and what isn't.


Shit, were's Carrie when you need her.  She was never the same after they killed Brody.


----------



## dorsetknob (Aug 15, 2015)

broken pixel said:


> https://duckduckgo.com


on a linux browser as windows 10 keylogs to improve your searches  ect


----------



## micropage7 (Aug 15, 2015)

skippy258 said:


> Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders)



so basically they want to see anything that you run or save in your pc, F%%% you M$


----------



## cadaveca (Aug 15, 2015)

micropage7 said:


> so basically they want to see anything that you run or save in your pc, F%%% you M$


It's hardly hidden that Microsoft wants to provide the software that you run your life by. They can only do this if they know about you, and deliver a "personalized experience". What's on your PC is rather irrelevant. Win10 is very much about creating a personalized profile for each and every user (Live account). Note that account name.


----------



## micropage7 (Aug 15, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> It's hardly hidden that Microsoft wants to provide the software that you run your life by. They can only do this if they know about you, and deliver a "personalized experience". What's on your PC is rather irrelevant. Win10 is very much about creating a personalized profile for each and every user (Live account). Note that account name.


could be, but anyway its kinda make me worried since we dont know actually what kind of data that they gonna take in the name of for better user experience

will M$ gonna handle their customer data right? thats another question, only time will tell


----------



## cadaveca (Aug 15, 2015)

micropage7 said:


> could be, but anyway its kinda make me worried since we dont know actually what kind of data that they gonna take in the name of for better user experience
> 
> will M$ gonna handle their customer data right? thats another question, only time will tell


We can force their hand pretty easily. Corporations are usually not nefarious... it is usually a case of a bad apple or two. To me, education about how things are taking place is important, but many times it gets blown out of proportion. At least it gets attention, but I fear that people won't take things seriously with all the people out there crying "Wolf!".


----------



## broken pixel (Aug 15, 2015)

Microsquish main reason of collecting user data is to sell to third party corporations for profit, hell if they would share a percentage of that profit they could data mine my every login. Streamlining the user experience/ life with apps to collect personal data, what a crock of shi@t! 99% of the Corporate world does not give a hoot about it's consumers, it is all about about maximizing profits at the consumers expense.


----------



## broken pixel (Aug 15, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> It's hardly hidden that Microsoft wants to provide the software that you run your life by. They can only do this if they know about you, and deliver a "personalized experience". What's on your PC is rather irrelevant. Win10 is very much about creating a personalized profile for each and every user (Live account). Note that account name.



From MS Code of Conduct- Rules for the user to follow not MS. 
*ix. Don’t engage in activity that violates the privacy of others.*


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 17, 2015)

On this note:

I finally put my money where my mouth is.  Privacy concerns have made me switch.  I went through the winedb, and found that most of my games run on Linux.  I compiled a custom gentoo, and I daresay it runs faster than windows...  It boots faster anyways and games run as fast in most instances (some like Rome that have a native OpenGL renderer and are CPU bound, run faster).  It is using the Cinnamon desktop manager (none of that gnome 3 shit), and it works fine.

My games work fine.  I may miss directX 12 but Vulkan will hopefully see some good things with time.  NVIDIA graphics drivers for linux have always been top notch (can't say the same for the windows ones lol).

Games I've been playing the most on Linux lately, this list may surprise you.

Cities: Skylines
Rome 2 Total War.
ARK: Survival evolved
Silent Hunter 5 with a shitton of mods
Tropico 4.

Only one I'm missing right now from my main collection of "must-haves" is Elite Dangerous, but it's so optimized I suspect it will run.  Will try this weekend.

I'm pleasantly surprised, but I built this distro by hand using gentoo.  Your mileage with some of the precompiled linux garbage out there may vary, as always.


----------



## Bot (Aug 18, 2015)

If this really scares people than they should also stop using Google, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Verizon, IBM, Facebook and many many others. All of the big tech players do it.
It is almost impossible to provide you the fluency in services without storing personal data. You want to use a credit card for an in-app purchase you need to store some personal data, you want to log in to your gaming account with your facebook account you need to store personal data, even something simple like a 2-step verification stores data.

So please, cut up all your credit cards and use cash only, dip your fingertips in acid regularly, destroy your cellphone and stay of the interwebs and the wifis


----------



## Mr McC (Aug 18, 2015)

Bot said:


> If this really scares people than they should also stop using Google, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Verizon, IBM, Facebook and many many others. All of the big tech players do it.
> It is almost impossible to provide you the fluency in services without storing personal data. You want to use a credit card for an in-app purchase you need to store some personal data, you want to log in to your gaming account with your facebook account you need to store personal data, even something simple like a 2-step verification stores data.
> 
> So please, cut up all your credit cards and use cash only, dip your fingertips in acid regularly, destroy your cellphone and stay of the interwebs and the wifis



Perhaps opposition is futile, but acquiescence based on the inevitability of the outcome can be construed as a self-fulfilling prophecy, and objection, however pointless, should be praised, rather than derided.


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 18, 2015)

Bot said:


> It is almost impossible to provide you the fluency in services without storing personal data. You want to use a credit card for an in-app purchase you need to store some personal data, you want to log in to your gaming account with your facebook account you need to store personal data, even something simple like a 2-step verification stores data.



Bullshit.  2 step verification and purchase orders requires an account of course, but virtually everything else can be performed with local data storage in the browser.  Companies don't want to do this of course, but it is possible.


----------



## dorsetknob (Aug 18, 2015)

Bot said:


> If this really scares people than they should also stop using Google, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Verizon, IBM, Facebook and many many others. All of the big tech players do it.
> It is almost impossible to provide you the fluency in services without storing personal data. You want to use a credit card for an in-app purchase you need to store some personal data, you want to log in to your gaming account with your facebook account you need to store personal data, even something simple like a 2-step verification stores data.
> 
> So please, cut up all your credit cards and use cash only, dip your fingertips in acid regularly, destroy your cellphone and stay of the interwebs and the wifis


Another asswiper who does not understand Privacy concerns

we accept that in order to have a online life we have to give info  what we object to is the total intent of these companys to track us moniter us  sell our info to 3rd and forth parties beyond our control


----------



## Vayra86 (Aug 18, 2015)

Bot said:


> If this really scares people than they should also stop using Google, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Verizon, IBM, Facebook and many many others. All of the big tech players do it.
> It is almost impossible to provide you the fluency in services without storing personal data. You want to use a credit card for an in-app purchase you need to store some personal data, you want to log in to your gaming account with your facebook account you need to store personal data, even something simple like a 2-step verification stores data.
> 
> So please, cut up all your credit cards and use cash only, dip your fingertips in acid regularly, destroy your cellphone and stay of the interwebs and the wifis



There is still moderation and observation here, something you obviously lack because you only think in terms of black and white / all or nothing. I don't.

- I don't have Facebook
- I do have Steam, using overlay and friends
- I don't have Twitter
- I do have an e-mail account
- I do use Android and Google for its perks, among which: the ability to block data sharing where and how I want it, while using apps that dó share data that I feel is of advantage to my personal use
- When the time comes to move to W10 (now is not that time) I will enable it through a local account with all data sharing options disabled, not just the vanilla ones

I could go on. But even in todays' incredibly connected society you still have every freedom to decide what you share and what you don't share, as long as you know what you're doing. I definitely do see the advantages of big data, for example (and especially) while travelling, booking a hotel or finding a taxi. Do I perhaps share things that may compromise me in some way? Perhaps. But that was never different before the internet existed either, the only difference is the means through which you 'share', willingly or unwillingly. Before the internet a single piece of paper could destroy your life, and today it still can. The only difference is that these pieces of paper are now digital too, and much easier to copy and share.


----------



## Bot (Aug 18, 2015)

exactly, people need to be careful what information they share in the first place rather than to worry about who is storing, sharing and accessing it once it is out. I do understand some of those privacy concerns but I am much more worried if this information is shared with the gov than another private company. do I like it, no I don't but you have to give a little to get a little. W10 would not given away for free if they were completely unable and disallowed to use data. many services would not be free. I am not eager to pay for them if they want to know information about me that is mostly public anyway.
please don't be fooled to believe that there is not a loophole for the opt-out privacy policy. there are very few companies that on even fewer occasions push back to give up your information if the fed knocks on the door. also keep in mind that most of those policies only limit the sharing of information with 3rd parties. that does not mean that they don't store your data, nor does that mean that sub-contractors of the organization won't have access to it.


----------



## Uplink10 (Aug 18, 2015)

Bot said:


> W10 would not given away for free if they were completely unable and disallowed to use data.


Windows 10 is practically service pack for Windows 8.1 and Windows 8.1 did not get any service pack since its release which means that Microsoft cheated Windows 8.1 users into getting the service pack *free for the first year *but after that year you will have to pay for service pack called Windows 10.

How can nobody see this? Microsof is practically not releasing any service packs for the OS that is supposed is still getting service packs and instead they make a service pack and sell it as a full product.

I deduct that service pack support period is now useless judging by this situation.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Aug 19, 2015)

If you really want to disable all the M$ spy shit, stop them at the your router. Here is a list of all addresses to block - http://pastebin.com/RZW74Npk


----------



## kn00tcn (Aug 19, 2015)

anyone writing M$ looks like a moron, this isnt aimed personally but more about the term itself



Solaris17 said:


> I love all the hate on Microsoft about windows 10. Its like you people didn't expect this or it was slid under your nose. or masqueraded as a Christmas gift. Do you really like hating Microsoft that much that you have some how managed to forget the EULAs that have taken pretty much everything you think your entitled to "own" online?


there is quite a difference between opt-in/nicknames/avatars/segregated services compared to the whole OS with all data & greyed out options

there is also quite a difference between enabling by default while pressuring the masses compared to 'check out this cool product, by the way we need to do X for Y feature'

again there is a difference between 'there is a new recommended driver available' compared to 'updates are forced'

how about the bitlocker key if it really is automatically online without any options, it doesnt have to be a tin foil honeypot, but it's simply a security risk in the future (including hackers or rogue employees, not gov/corporate conspiracies)

do you REALLY think win10 hasnt jumped by a lot compared to previous versions & manual sign up online services?



Bot said:


> If this really scares people than they should also stop using Google, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Verizon, IBM, Facebook and many many others. All of the big tech players do it.
> It is almost impossible to provide you the fluency in services without storing personal data. You want to use a credit card for an in-app purchase you need to store some personal data, you want to log in to your gaming account with your facebook account you need to store personal data, even something simple like a 2-step verification stores data.
> 
> So please, cut up all your credit cards and use cash only, dip your fingertips in acid regularly, destroy your cellphone and stay of the interwebs and the wifis


it's not about some random personal data that is already in multiple databases, it's about being the OS, the wording mentioning 'private files', not having options to disable things



Uplink10 said:


> Windows 10 is practically service pack for Windows 8.1 and Windows 8.1 did not get any service pack since its release which means that Microsoft cheated Windows 8.1 users into getting the service pack *free for the first year *but after that year you will have to pay for service pack called Windows 10.
> 
> How can nobody see this? Microsof is practically not releasing any service packs for the OS that is supposed is still getting service packs and instead they make a service pack and sell it as a full product.
> 
> I deduct that service pack support period is now useless judging by this situation.


your entitlement doesnt make any of your beliefs true

WDDM2, multiplatform from console to phone to desktop, & other architectural changes make it a new OS

that's not what service packs have done in the past, win7 doesnt have SP2, most SPs are pretty much cumulative updates

where is the line? should 7 be vista SP3? windows ME to be 98 SE2?

how about the 3 year major consumer timeline? 95 1995, 98 1998, xp 2001, (delayed due to problems as a fact) vista 2006, 7 2009, 8 2012, 10 2015

stop pretending



Liquid Cool said:


> This invasion of privacy actually keeps me up at night, yet many of you gentlemen consider it a joke.  I was happy to cut the cable cord, but I'm thinking of cutting the internet cord as well.  "This" isn't what I envisioned when  I first hopped on the 'net in '92 using command line.  It's turned into a nightmare for privacy and frankly it seems like quite a few of you that understand what is going on here are quite ok with it.  This concerns me greatly.
> 
> I'm in the wrong place, you won't see me here again.
> 
> ...


i barely know of you, but already miss you if serious... Liquid Cool was last seen: Aug 10, 2015


----------



## Static~Charge (Aug 19, 2015)

broken pixel said:


> Microsquish main reason of collecting user data is to sell to third party corporations for profit



And now you know why that upgrade to Windows 10 is "free".


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 19, 2015)

People seem to forget 8.1 was basically a service pack for 8...


----------



## Ahhzz (Aug 19, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> .....
> Only one I'm missing right now from my main collection of "must-haves" is Elite Dangerous, but it's so optimized I suspect it will run.  Will try this weekend.


would be very interested to hear about that....


----------



## Uplink10 (Aug 19, 2015)

kn00tcn said:


> your entitlement doesnt make any of your beliefs true
> 
> WDDM2, multiplatform from console to phone to desktop, & other architectural changes make it a new OS
> 
> ...


What is the point of Microsoft issuing service pack support period if they are not going to release any service pack?

And do not talk with me about WDDM because if you install it, it will replace your AMD drivers and then CCC will not start because it does not recognize any device. Windows 8.1 offers me WDDM but if I install them instead of just being installed in the background if AMD drivers malfunction or are deleted they replace them and then you have to uninstall drivers for AMD card drivers (which are WDDM) and install AMD's drivers again.

We all know that Windows 7 SP1 without integrated updates is a big security risk because you have to download over 200 updates and this is not exactly secure and practical especially since you will be doing a clean install.

The point is Microsoft is not exactly supporting its products since (before non-security bug support for Windows 7 ended there were still issues which Microsoft did not fix) releasing a new product. Sure, it provides security updates but is is important to also provide other updates for which it promised support. And if one man can integrate updates into .iso Windows file why the hell cannot Microsoft release monthly updated .iso files for its Windows products? They have the manpower and money.



R-T-B said:


> People seem to forget 8.1 was basically a service pack for 8...


But it wasn't, *SP *is *SP *and *.1* update is *.1* update. I bet that Microsoft will not release any SP in Windows 8 supposed service pack support perriod.


----------



## Deelron (Aug 19, 2015)

Bot said:


> If this really scares people than they should also stop using Google, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Verizon, IBM, Facebook and many many others. All of the big tech players do it.
> It is almost impossible to provide you the fluency in services without storing personal data. You want to use a credit card for an in-app purchase you need to store some personal data, you want to log in to your gaming account with your facebook account you need to store personal data, even something simple like a 2-step verification stores data.
> 
> So please, cut up all your credit cards and use cash only, dip your fingertips in acid regularly, destroy your cellphone and stay of the interwebs and the wifis



They all don't do "it" (particularly to the same degree), and they all don't monetize the data they do happen to collect via third parties, unless you believe some companies are lying to the SEC and their own investors. This everybody does "it" blanket statement is simply not true.


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 19, 2015)

Deelron said:


> They all don't do "it" (particularly to the same degree), and they all don't monetize the data they do happen to collect via third parties, unless you believe some companies are lying to the SEC and their own investors. This everybody does "it" blanket statement is simply not true.




They all COLLECT data.

I really doubt anyone, even microsoft, is actually profiting from this data beyond trying to provide a service to you.  They may get kickbacks for showing relevant ads to your "interests" but beyond that, nothing more.  Anyone thinking they are just willy nilly giving out your secrets for pennies on the dollar is a retard.



Uplink10 said:


> But it wasn't, *SP *is *SP *and *.1* update is *.1* update. I bet that Microsoft will not release any SP in Windows 8 supposed service pack support perriod.



It's a terminology change, nothing more.

Besides, weren't you the one who was just calling 10 a service pack?  Irony.


----------



## Deelron (Aug 19, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> They all COLLECT data.
> 
> I really doubt anyone, even microsoft, is actually profiting from this data beyond trying to provide a service to you.  They may get kickbacks for showing relevant ads to your "interests" but beyond that, nothing more.  Anyone thinking they are just willy nilly giving out your secrets for pennies on the dollar is a retard.



Google was on his list, I'm quite sure they make more then kickbacks from showing "relevant" ads, which is a very different use then say, Apple's or Microsofts use of similar data (at least so far).


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 19, 2015)

Deelron said:


> Google was on his list, I'm quite sure they make more then kickbacks from showing "relevant" ads.



I didn't say they were small kickbacks.  My point is that they just aren't selling your genome to the Alliance for the Restoration of the Soviet Union for their latest monkey-man project.  There are limits on what is collected, how this data can be used, and they usually aren't nefarious.

The big risk is when this data gets acquired via hacking by parties with less than good intentions.  And it does happen.


----------



## Deelron (Aug 19, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> I didn't say they were small kickbacks.  My point is that they just aren't selling your genome to the Soviet Union for their latest monkey-man project.  There are limits on how this data can be used, and they usually aren't nefarious.
> 
> The big risk is when this data gets aquired via hacking by parties with less than good intentions.  And it does happen.



Oh absolutely, just a decent amount of what can be done right now with some of the internal data mining can do things like track my child's rough age and frequently visited places by season through Google photos which in principle is sort of neat in one way but in the wrong hands it'd be similar to stalking. 

I know it's pretty crazy sounding, and I'm not saying it's happening at all, but I do wonder sometimes what the safeguards are for an employee accessing such things if they decided to.  Just saying there's a big difference between data collection on frequently visited websites and data mining/tracking places visited from analyzing things like photos, and the monetization and goals from different companies vary wildly.


----------



## kn00tcn (Aug 19, 2015)

Uplink10 said:


> What is the point of Microsoft issuing service pack support period if they are not going to release any service pack?
> 
> And do not talk with me about WDDM because if you install it, it will replace your AMD drivers and then CCC will not start because it does not recognize any device. Windows 8.1 offers me WDDM but if I install them instead of just being installed in the background if AMD drivers malfunction or are deleted they replace them and then you have to uninstall drivers for AMD card drivers (which are WDDM) and install AMD's drivers again.
> 
> ...



we havent had .# updates since before win95 & SPs existed, but the end result is identical, the OS is almost identical, OS being the kernel & low level architecture, it doesnt matter if explorer.exe has a start menu added in win8.1 or not

what exactly are you talking about WDDM? i'm talking about the capabilities of specific WDDM versions that have to be supported by both the OS & the driver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Display_Driver_Model#History

once again, it's irrelevant if amd makes a buggy driver or if you install from their site rather than windows update, WDDM is a low level part of the core OS so major changes to it are major changes to the OS

obviously microsoft is impractical & sloppy, they should release updated ISOs with the security updates at least, but the other updates are definitely going to be a problem, some of them break games & software, others are features users dont want like the get windows 10 tray icon

now since MS has a history of not being elegant, the support schedules have nothing to do with any guarantee, all they mean is they're not going to refuse new updates in some form, whatever they may be, it's not a schedule like firefox has where they have the exact date of each version before it comes out.... so when winXP support ended, they refused to make new updates (other than those paid or embedded ones)

so based on that, MS is exactly supporting all their products as planned & as have been for many years, nothing changed


----------



## Uplink10 (Aug 19, 2015)

Deelron said:


> They all don't do "it" (particularly to the same degree), and they all don't monetize the data they do happen to collect via third parties, unless you believe some companies are lying to the SEC and their own investors. This everybody does "it" blanket statement is simply not true.


All the companies are collecting data and the users do not know what they are doing with the data. There should be SpiderOak-like solution for all the data where user has the key to the data and not the company.



R-T-B said:


> It's a terminology change, nothing more.
> 
> Besides, weren't you the one who was just calling 10 a service pack? Irony.


I see the irony here. But the fact is Windows 8.1 users are now "abandoned" in favor of Windows 10.



kn00tcn said:


> once again, it's irrelevant if amd makes a buggy driver or if you install from their site rather than windows update, WDDM is a low level part of the core OS so major changes to it are major changes to the OS





kn00tcn said:


> what exactly are you talking about WDDM? i'm talking about the capabilities of specific WDDM versions that have to be supported by both the OS & the driver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Display_Driver_Model#History


I am talking if I install this, CCC will no longer recognize the AMD graphic card because it replaces/overrides AMD drives:





I see what you mean, new OS get's new features which are included in new WDDM version and you also need new WDDM version for DX12.



kn00tcn said:


> now since MS has a history of not being elegant, the support schedules have nothing to do with any guarantee, all they mean is they're not going to refuse new updates in some form, whatever they may be, it's not a schedule like firefox has where they have the exact date of each version before it comes out.... so when winXP support ended, they refused to make new updates (other than those paid or embedded ones)
> 
> so based on that, MS is exactly supporting all their products as planned & as have been for many years, nothing changed


No they are not, there is a bug which happens when you are formatting external USB HDD and the memory usage for explorer.exe goes through the roof, it keeps building up until it consumes all memory. It was known for years but Microsoft before support for Windows 7 non-security updates ended did not fix this bug. 

There is still also a bug in Windows 7 when you have to right click desktop and refresh it before you right click shortcut on the desktop for network adapter and enable it, because if you do not refresh it and the adapter was disabled at shutdown when you right click it there will be only option for disabling it which it already is.


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## tabascosauz (Aug 19, 2015)

So...

I'm guessing that the worry stems from 2 sources:

1. People who distribute child pornography. No reason why these people should have any privacy from law enforcement.

2. People who worry that personal / work communications could be leaked from someone at MS.

For the first, well, I can see why such perverts would be up in arms about protecting their "privacy". An illusion anyways. Did we forget about the existence of the NSA?

For the second, well, don't you face the same threat from any hacker? It doesn't matter if the person who's after your information works or doesn't work at MS. If they have their methods, they'll steal your information. Plus, the EULA doesn't make MS immune from litigation if something does happen to you.

Lastly, just get ShutUp10 and quit whining. What's with the threatening "this is the last time I use Windows"? Not like MS cares, lol. There are plenty of things that can only be done on Windows, and MS knows.


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## R-T-B (Aug 19, 2015)

tabascosauz said:


> So...
> 
> I'm guessing that the worry stems from 2 sources:
> 
> ...




It's a lot more than just those two groups.  Pretty much anyone in this day and age has data they don't want generally available.



> For the second, well, don't you face the same threat from any hacker? It doesn't matter if the person who's after your information works or doesn't work at MS. If they have their methods, they'll steal your information.



Ok, so let's pretend you're a hacker.  What do you target?  Joe's laptop or a massive datacenter with thousands of customers information?

They aren't after YOUR information per say.  Criminals are after ANY information.  Time has shown this repeatedly to be true.


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## Uplink10 (Aug 19, 2015)

tabascosauz said:


> I'm guessing that the worry stems from 2 sources:
> 
> 1. People who distribute child pornography. No reason why these people should have any privacy from law enforcement.
> 
> 2. People who worry that personal / work communications could be leaked from someone at MS.


Your attempt at compartmentalization failed because there is a lot more compartments in which the person would store their data (pun intended).

It doesn't matter why the person wants privacy, no matter what the privacy should be guaranteed and there should be an option to guarantee it.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 19, 2015)

xorbe said:


> This is the beginning of the end of using MS products for my desktop OS.  I don't use my smart phone (data, apps) much due to privacy concerns, and I am certainly not letting this attitude onto my main workstation.  Finally I will be forced into using Linux on the metal and booting Windows in VirtualBox instead.  My data doesn't need to live remotely, and my information doesn't need to be data mined.



Better not use the internet all together if you are worried about privacy. Maybe go live in a cave as well. Got all the privacy you need.


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## kn00tcn (Aug 19, 2015)

Uplink10 said:


> I am talking if I install this, CCC will no longer recognize the AMD graphic card because it replaces/overrides AMD drives:


why doesnt that say WDDM2, are you implying you leave your old CCC installed? it's expected to not work if the driver changes... this is why it's common practice to NOT use microsoft provided third party drivers for many years

as for the text itself, it's just a label of this particular driver, it means nothing (well apparently it's saying it's not a wddm2 driver which is what you want on win10)



Uplink10 said:


> No they are not, there is a bug which happens when you are formatting external USB HDD and the memory usage for explorer.exe goes through the roof, it keeps building up until it consumes all memory. It was known for years but Microsoft before support for Windows 7 non-security updates ended did not fix this bug.
> 
> There is still also a bug in Windows 7 when you have to right click desktop and refresh it before you right click shortcut on the desktop for network adapter and enable it, because if you do not refresh it and the adapter was disabled at shutdown when you right click it there will be only option for disabling it which it already is.


yes they are, they have a history of leaving bugs, microsoft is sloppy

the schedule says they MAY fix it, that is, they have at least one person working on making updates in some form, whether those are security or otherwise doesnt matter

when the schedule ends, it means they officially refuse to put someone to work, whether it's a bug or security hole, it's that simple

support never means perfection anywhere, especially if it's something as complex as an OS / as crazy as legacy code / as greedy as major corporations

does the usb formatting affect ANY tool or just microsoft's formatter? i can try this myself, i have empty 4TB drives, you want me to? (keep in mind, windows caches disk writes/reads into ram to make it appear faster, have you ever noticed copying a large file to a slow drive goes one speed, but then copying it back is instant? this specific cache usage isnt even listed under explorer.exe, you have to look at 'available' vs 'free' ram in taskmanager)

one of my hobbies is making solutions & workarounds, so the network adapter thing is fine by me (maybe you should make a .bat or .vbs that will be guaranteed to work without needing a refresh)


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## Uplink10 (Aug 20, 2015)

kn00tcn said:


> why doesnt that say WDDM2, are you implying you leave your old CCC installed? it's expected to not work if the driver changes... this is why it's common practice to NOT use microsoft provided third party drivers for many years
> 
> as for the text itself, it's just a label of this particular driver, it means nothing (well apparently it's saying it's not a wddm2 driver which is what you want on win10)


I just thought it would be a good idea to have latest WDDM version installed underneath just in case I uninstall AMD driver or if I am using Windows To Go installation (USB version) and I am booting it with different GPU. It would be nice if latest version already came with .iso like WDDM 2 comes with Windows 10. WDDM 2 is probably available only on Windows 10.



kn00tcn said:


> does the usb formatting affect ANY tool or just microsoft's formatter? i can try this myself, i have empty 4TB drives, you want me to?


You can try, do not use quick formatting and maybe the issue will pop up but it does not happen on any system configuration. It happened to me when I was still using Windows 7 SP1, switched to Windows 8.1 because Windows 7 still has some errors when installing from USB device and you have to put USB drive out at some point and then put it back in, it is a pain in the ass.



kn00tcn said:


> (keep in mind, windows caches disk writes/reads into ram to make it appear faster, have you ever noticed copying a large file to a slow drive goes one speed, but then copying it back is instant? this specific cache usage isnt even listed under explorer.exe, you have to look at 'available' vs 'free' ram in taskmanager)


That is "Standby" RAM which can become available if application needs it but otherwhise it is caching.


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## R-T-B (Aug 20, 2015)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Better not use the internet all together if you are worried about privacy. Maybe go live in a cave as well. Got all the privacy you need.



Because only cavemen are entitled to privacy...


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## Frick (Aug 20, 2015)

Liquid Cool said:


> This invasion of privacy actually keeps me up at night, yet many of you gentlemen consider it a joke.  I was happy to cut the cable cord, but I'm thinking of cutting the internet cord as well.  "This" isn't what I envisioned when  I first hopped on the 'net in '92 using command line.  It's turned into a nightmare for privacy and frankly it seems like quite a few of you that understand what is going on here are quite ok with it.  This concerns me greatly.
> 
> I'm in the wrong place, you won't see me here again.
> 
> ...



I absolutely understand you, but you're way, WAY too late. Society as a whole is foobar, only a proper global mind-revolution or an act of god would change anything. We're screaming down a fiber optic cable that ends in concrete. The privacy concerns is just a tip of many, many icebergs.

The only thing one can do is voting with your wallet and actually do what you think is right. In the end, if I sell my beliefs for the latest GTA (which accurately sums up how civilization works), what does that say about me as a person? Nothing special, just being human. There is no dignity.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 20, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> Because only cavemen are entitled to privacy...


Privacy is an illusion.


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## R-T-B (Aug 20, 2015)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Privacy is an illusion.



Perhaps.  But is is something to be fought for all the same.


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## broken pixel (Aug 20, 2015)

OOSU10 
http://www.neowin.net/news/shutup10-...vacy-with-ease


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## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 20, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> Perhaps.  But is is something to be fought for all the same.



I have nothing to hide in terms of my system usage so I don't really care regardless.


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## broken pixel (Aug 20, 2015)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> I have nothing to hide in terms of my system usage so I don't really care regardless.



Yay! A true fighter for the unjust systems the consumers feed upon.


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## R-T-B (Aug 20, 2015)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> I have nothing to hide in terms of my system usage so I don't really care regardless.



It's bad logic to not care about something that's a real issue simply because it does not effect you, but your call.


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