# NVIDIA Engaged in PsyOps Against HD 7970: Chinese Forum



## btarunr (Jan 27, 2012)

A lot has been said about NVIDIA's upcoming product with which it will compete against AMD's Radeon HD 7900 series, except of course, pictures, benchmarks, and so on. Chinese tech forum ChipHell accused NVIDIA of deploying shills across forums to shape public opinion about the already-launched HD 7900 series, towards waiting for NVIDIA's competitive product, these include blind talk about imaginary performance superiority, killer price, etc.

Chinese forums have recognized patterns in this spurt of anti-AMD and pro-HD 7970 imaginary-competitor product posts and banned scores of user accounts engaged in this activity. There's a very potent reason why ChipHell's observations shouldn't be met with cynicism, or made light of. In China, competing factions in the ever-ruling Communist party have been known to use what is known as "the 50 cent army", where for a pittance, scores of internet forum posters can be engaged to perform coordinated PsyOps, to shape public opinion, and maintain public support. It is only natural, then, that competing companies in the extremely competitive Chinese domestic market resort to similar tactics, including those distributing NVIDIA GeForce graphics cards, or, as Chip Hell alleges, NVIDIA itself.

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## reverze (Jan 27, 2012)

no surprise, i am sure older members on this forum will remember how nvidia paid well respected members of tech forums to make pro nvidia posts.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jan 27, 2012)

reverze said:


> no surprise, i am sure older members on this forum will remember how nvidia paid well respected members of tech forums to make pro nvidia posts.



I am an old member - but i dont recall any of this stuff


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## Damn_Smooth (Jan 27, 2012)

They really need to put up or shut up. It's not like they're slowing sales of the constantly sold out 7970 anyway.


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## radrok (Jan 27, 2012)

Damn_Smooth said:


> They really need to put up or shut up. It's not like they're slowing sales of the constantly sold out 7970 anyway.



High end isn't that incisive on market, hence Nvidia hasn't that much hurry to get their product out, midrange is more important because the volumes sold are much higher.


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## HossHuge (Jan 27, 2012)




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## Damn_Smooth (Jan 27, 2012)

radrok said:


> High end isn't that incisive on market, hence Nvidia hasn't that much hurry to get their product out, midrange is more important because the volumes sold are much higher.



Midrange is what they are claiming will beat the 7970. They still need to put up or shut up.


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## qubit (Jan 27, 2012)

This all sounds really underhand. I wonder if AMD resorts to the same tactics? I tend to think they would.


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## HisSvt2 (Jan 27, 2012)

this doesn't surprise me one bit funny my low post count but my join date is older than the op's


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## entropy13 (Jan 27, 2012)

qubit said:


> This all sounds really underhand. I wonder if AMD resorts to the same tactics? I tend to think they would.



Although not necessarily through myriads of forum posts, this would count.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 27, 2012)

This is why everything posted by any forum member should be thought of as BS. Until I see W1zz's or Daves benchmarks its all bullshit.


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## the54thvoid (Jan 27, 2012)

Well, Charlie absolutely refutes the Chiphell post:

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=150135&postcount=374



> Since people are asking, let me say this for the record. What Chiphell wrote (or appears to have written with the best translation available to me) is blatantly false, period.
> 
> My sources are industry sources, not message boards, random web forums, or other dubious sources. When I use information from web based sources, I cite and credit them because it is both the correct thing to do, and lets readers know where to go to judge the validity of that information. If it is not cited, it is from a direct industry source(s). If it is credited, it is just that. If not, it is because the source requested anonymity.
> 
> ...



Given his position on Nvidia as a company and reading through the S/A forum and seeing his posts and the forums response, I'm thinking CD knows more than the stuff filtering from Chiphell.

And let's face it, what's stopping _AMD using the same tactics to have actually started this new, Nvidia conspiracy?_

Too many web folk read one thing and attach 100% truth to it.  Me? I'm leaning back to a watercooled 7970 unless i hear from NV soon.  

As MM and many others have said, all rumours for now and we'll know when the goods hit the floor.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 27, 2012)

the54thvoid said:


> Well, Charlie absolutely refutes the Chiphell post:
> 
> http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=150135&postcount=374
> 
> ...



On a side note Charlie is full of shit against Nvidia or for Nvidia. W1zz benches or bust.


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## the54thvoid (Jan 27, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> On a side note Charlie is full of shit against Nvidia or for Nvidia. W1zz benches or bust.



Yeah, I know - I stopped using the Enquirer a long time ago as i was sick of his anti Nvidia venom whilst licking ATI (at the time) donkey dick.  So his recent 'neutrality' and positive view on Kepler makes it seem very plausible, NV have sorted things out this time round.

But I also couldn't agree more, I dont count on anything until the cards get benched (and i also multi source reviews from a few other neutral sites).


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## Quantos (Jan 27, 2012)

Really, the odds of this being true are rather slim, in my opinion. I'm not saying it's impossible, but even if it is, it has to have a limited impact. Yes, there's a lot of rumours about Kepler, but why can't it just be people speculating? Speculation is just that, guessing what it's going to be like with little to no thrustworthy information to base yourself on.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 27, 2012)

the54thvoid said:


> Yeah, I know - I stopped using the Enquirer a long time ago as i was sick of his anti Nvidia venom whilst licking ATI (at the time) donkey dick.  So his recent 'neutrality' and positive view on Kepler makes it seem very plausible, NV have sorted things out this time round.
> 
> But I also couldn't agree more, I dont count on anything until the cards get benched (and i also multi source reviews from a few other neutral sites).



The fact Charlie used to scream anti-Nivida crap all the time that WASN'T TRUE makes me believe Chiphell. That scum bag could be bought easy.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jan 27, 2012)

radrok said:


> High end isn't that incisive on market, hence Nvidia hasn't that much hurry to get their product out, midrange is more important because the volumes sold are much higher.



I don't know if you pay attention to hardware much, but even people on these forums normally buy the high end mid-range products. But when it comes down to red/green camps or AMD/Intel, the arguments will always come down to what company makes the fastest chip, even if it's something like say a $1000 processor that almost no one has. Just because not many people have the budget for it is besides the point, that top dog product gives the fanboys without the bank rolls for it something to rally behind and wave as their flag, to show their companies dominance in the market. So they might not actually bring in a ton of money themselves, but just them existing, is important.


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## btarunr (Jan 27, 2012)

the54thvoid said:


> And let's face it, what's stopping _AMD using the same tactics to have actually started this new, Nvidia conspiracy?_



The fact that HD 7970 exists and is ready to sell, while that Kepler bogie isn't. Since Kepler doesn't exist, those behind this mischief can claim Kepler to have virtually any kind of performance/power-consumption/price figure, while AMD can't, since its performance/power/price figures are already out and tested.

Also, the fact that AMD can also resort to such practice, doesn't legitimize it.


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## the54thvoid (Jan 27, 2012)

btarunr said:


> Also, the fact that AMD can also resort to such practice, doesn't legitimize it.



Never said it did.  I simply said that there's nothing stopping AMD also being involved.  Espionage also has a bedfellow called counter espionage. In a billion dollar industry it would be utterly naive to think only one side would try dirty tactics.

There is no _actual_ proof NV (or associated individuals) is involved and no proof AMD (or associated individuals) isn't - that's my viewpoint here.  Until i have confirmed* facts, the web and all media for that matter is nothing more than an interesting story.

*Which in itself is an existentionalist philosophical roundabout.


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## R_1 (Jan 27, 2012)

This round in GPU wars ain't cheap for end-users. AMD pricing is a lot like Nvidia-s, even higher. That is not MSRP $249-$349 for HD4870/4850 , or $259-$379 for HD5850/5870, or  $299-$369 for HD6970/6950. We are facing $???-$550 MSRP for HD7950/7970, even worse $650-$750 in Europe. That is over 200% higher price for Europe, compared to previous AMD generation and lot worse, as we accounted $199 HD4850 vs. $650 HD7950. So let's see what GK104 can do. Patience can pay off this time.


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## HalfAHertz (Jan 27, 2012)

Hai guys! I just wanted to say that Kepler ends world hunger and brings world peace and you should totally buy it! Oh wait...


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 27, 2012)

I hear Kepler is powered off the stolen heart of an orphaned child.


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## the54thvoid (Jan 27, 2012)

Yeah but it also has an irregular heart rate.


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## R_1 (Jan 27, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I hear Kepler is powered off the stolen heart of an orphaned child.



Johannes Kepler is a great astronomer. A bunch of people in his time were also that great... , if they could prove what they were saying or writing , like Giordano Bruno forinstance. It turns out that only Kepler can prove his findings.  Holy Inquisition did a great mistake back then, killing Bruno, not Kepler. I see RIAA taking notes, when MegaUpload was closed recently.


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## Hokum (Jan 27, 2012)

I've heard that Kepler is made with the blood of baby seals... You heard it here first...


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## OneCool (Jan 27, 2012)

I have the Kepler high end offering in SLI Skyrim results.I must say im impressed.


But for the record during the test in question one of the orphaned hearts stroked out so I can not reproduce my findings


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## Benetanegia (Jan 27, 2012)

btarunr said:


> The fact that HD 7970 exists and is ready to sell, while that Kepler bogie isn't. Since Kepler doesn't exist, those behind this mischief can claim Kepler to have virtually any kind of performance/power-consumption/price figure, while AMD can't, since its performance/power/price figures are already out and tested.
> 
> Also, the fact that AMD can also resort to such practice, doesn't legitimize it.



But AMD could be doing it to stop every rumor* about Kepler, whether it's true or not. In fact, seing the posts here, it already worked out that way.

Of course the fact they could do it, doesn't make it any true, but then again the same goes for Nvidia. The only thing that I've seen so far is a bunch of people have been banned. And since we are talking about people being bought, the admin of Chiphell could as easily been bought as anyone else. Since when is Chiphell a trusty site anyway? They said Kepler was 384 bit, just to say 256 bit the next day, no hot-clocks one day, yes to hot-clocks the other. To me this means nothing really. From what I read in Asia every company does this guerrlla marketing, if it's true that the Chiphell members were working for Nvidia that only means they got caught and the ones from other comanies have not been caught (yet), not that it is something extraordinary that is only made by Nvidia. It's as relevant as saying that politicians lie.

* or info that cannot be verified.


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## Crap Daddy (Jan 27, 2012)

So next Call of Duty should be COD PsyOps, a highly entertaining first person shooter where a dude that goes by the name "Kepler" has to save the world from  a bunch of zombified Foxconn Chinese workers.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jan 27, 2012)

Crap Daddy said:


> So next Call of Duty should be COD PsyOps, a highly entertaining first person shooter where a dude that goes by the name "Kepler" has to save the world from  a bunch of zombified Foxconn Chinese workers.



as quoted by Mr. Gou 'boss' of foxconn. calling them 'animals' wasnt low enough


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 27, 2012)

Benetanegia said:


> But AMD could be doing it to stop every rumor* about Kepler, whether it's true or not. In fact, seing the posts here, it already worked out that way.
> 
> Of course the fact they could do it, doesn't make it any true, but then again the same goes for Nvidia. The only thing that I've seen so far is a bunch of people have been banned. And since we are talking about people being bought, the admin of Chiphell could as easily been bought as anyone else. Since when is Chiphell a trusty site anyway? They said Kepler was 384 bit, just to say 256 bit the next day, no hot-clocks one day, yes to hot-clocks the other. To me this means nothing really. From what I read in Asia every company does this guerrlla marketing, if it's true that the Chiphell members were working for Nvidia that only means they got caught and the ones from other comanies have not been caught (yet), not that it is something extraordinary that is only made by Nvidia. It's as relevant as saying that politicians lie.
> 
> * or info that cannot be verified.



I think you are an NVIDIA plant!


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## Sihastru (Jan 27, 2012)

A HD7970 is on average 31% faster then an HD6970 (previous AMD top GPU), and just 12% faster then an GTX580 (current NVIDIA top GPU) at 1920x1200.

If we talk about performance per dollar, at 1200p, the GTX580 actually has an advatage, because the AMD cards have their prices very much inflated, especially in Europe, and you pay a lot more for that 12% performance advatage.

The same HD7970 is about 50% faster then the current mid-range NVIDIA GPU, the GTX560 Ti (vanilla, not the special edition 448 core) at the same 1200p resolution. I'm not going to say how much more bang for the buck you get with the GTX560 Ti because it's embarrasing for the AMD card.

This is all according to TPU.

What I'm wondering now, it's how much performance do people expect for the GK104 card priced at $300 to warrant all this distrust. What do people expect the performance of the GK104 card (GTX660, GTX760 or whatever it's name will be) to be in relation to the GTX560 Ti?

It's clear that GK104 should outperform a GTX560 Ti. Let's say it's ~30% better. Well that puts it in GTX580 territory. For almost half the price of an HD7970. All of a sudden the HD7970 costs ~100% more for just ~15% more performance.

I'm sorry, but paying double for just a bit of extra performance contradicts the AMD customer charta. This is what kept AMD alive for so long, in the CPU and GPU markets. You don't have to have the fastest CPU/GPU as long as you price it correctly to make it attractive. AMD already f@#&d that up with Bulldozer. So they're on a destructive pricing curve.

And you can adjust that 30% and downplay it to 25% or 20%. But that's not realistic. A new card should outperform it's predecesor by at least 30%. It's just how it is.

What makes it a nightmare for AMD is that this is their top GPU, their "enthusiast chip", their high-end, while GK104 is NVIDIA's "performance chip", or mid-range GPU.

So whatever you read about AMD or NVIDIA right now, apart from being a fabrication and a complete joke, is rendered nil if you just stop for a moment and think about it. Take your fanboi hat off for a minute and do some simple math. You can do some aproximations, I don't mind. Percentages in the single digits will always fall prey to erosion due to driver updates.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jan 27, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I think you are an NVIDIA plant!


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## erek (Jan 27, 2012)

do you guys know about the NVIDIA focus group members? seems suspicious and also highly secretive.

http://consumerist.com/2006/02/nvidia-focus-group-member-details-hidden-program.html


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## Sihastru (Jan 27, 2012)

What is suspicious is that you think the other guys don't have a similar focus group. Every company has "focus" groups.


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## ensabrenoir (Jan 27, 2012)

qubit said:


> This all sounds really underhand. I wonder if AMD resorts to the same tactics? I tend to think they would.



 this where amd hires their marketing department from


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 27, 2012)

I find how childish nvidia is being over all this, denial is the first stage now insults, next is welcome to reality and acceptance of being so ignorant.


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## kajson (Jan 27, 2012)

Sihastru said:


> A HD7970 is on average 31% faster then an HD6970 (previous AMD top GPU), and just 12% faster then an GTX580 (current NVIDIA top GPU) at 1920x1200.
> 
> If we talk about performance per dollar, at 1200p, the GTX580 actually has an advatage, because the AMD cards have their prices very much inflated, especially in Europe, and you pay a lot more for that 12% performance advatage.
> 
> ...



Lucky for AMD it was only a nightmare.... But seriously do you expect Nvidia to put a product on the shelf of similar performance as the 580 at 60% of the price of a 580? (murdering profit margins on the 580) 
Ofc AMD will lower their somewhat ridiculous prices when Nvidia launches their next gen, but the current prices are based on the performance vs current top NVidia cards, not on production costs. Combined with catering to the people for whom money is no object as long as they have the newest of the newest.

And if Nvidia is really owning em in performance with their also virtual top segment, we'll see a 7990 at current 7970 price or the 8xxx series within max 12~15 months, as that seems to be the current development speed per generation


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## Benetanegia (Jan 27, 2012)

kajson said:


> Lucky for AMD it was only a nightmare.... But seriously do you expect Nvidia to put a product on the shelf of similar performance as the 580 at 60% of the price of a 580? (murdering profit margins on the 580)



8800GT? GTX460? It wouldn't be the first time at all. And not Nvidia, but Sandy Bridge? Intel made record profits thanks to it, and SB simply made any other Intel CPU that costed more thn $300 completely obsolete. So what?

Nvidia won't loose a penny anyway. It's probably been long (months) since Nvidia sold the last GTX580. Retailers and partners still selling cards are probably just cleaning their stock. Until March/April there's lots of time too and AMD only helped by not really competing with HD7970 on the same price bracket.

Nvidia might even be giving partners/retailers some extra time when they said they would not paper launch it, giving them a good "extra" month.


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## kajson (Jan 27, 2012)

Benetanegia said:


> 8800GT? GTX460? It wouldn't be the first time at all. And not Nvidia, but Sandy Bridge? Intel made record profits thanks to it, and SB simply made any other Intel CPU that costed more thn $300 completely obsolete. So what?
> 
> Nvidia won't loose a penny anyway. It's probably been long (months) since Nvidia sold the last GTX580. Retailers and partners still selling cards are probably just cleaning their stock. Until March/April there's lots of time too and AMD only helped by not really competing with HD7970 on the same price bracket.
> 
> Nvidia might even be giving partners/retailers some extra time when they said they would not paper launch it, giving them a good "extra" month.



The Intel comparison only works if you're saying Nvidia has a totally superior product, and the profit Nvidia is turning over compared to Intel isn't really in the same ballpark healthwise. 

Intel also has a way more dominant relationship with their partners/retailers as you well know. Nvidia cant afford those kinda practises towards their retailers and certainly not towards their partners, the bargaining position of Nvidia is a lot more delicate then Intels.


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## HumanSmoke (Jan 27, 2012)

erek said:


> do you guys know about the NVIDIA focus group members? seems suspicious and also highly secretive.



Nvidia focus group guys I think announce their affiliation in their forum sig as a general rule...strangely enough, in much the same way as AMD reps do...and again, here ( http://aceshardware.freeforums.org/amd-bulldozer-preview-t1042-150.html ) :


> Yes, we have said in public that IPC would be higher and single threaded performance will be higher. Anyone saying otherwise is either uninformed, or has a specific agenda.


As far as I'm aware, anyone disputing a focus group member's message is free to do so. Disputing an AMD rep's message has earned not an insignificant number of members perma-bans.
So it's not entirely one way traffic, and I wouldn't see AMD (or Intel etc) being able to claim the moral high ground in the viral/guerilla marketing arena.


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## Hokum (Jan 27, 2012)

Sihastru said:


> If we talk about performance per dollar, at 1200p, the GTX580 actually has an advatage, because the AMD cards have their prices very much inflated, especially in Europe, and you pay a lot more for that 12% performance advatage.



Hmm my local, Aria, 

7970 £420-516

580 £357-394

That isnt a huge gap.


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## claylomax (Jan 27, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> This is why everything posted by any forum member should be thought of as BS. Until I see W1zz's or Daves benchmarks its all bullshit.



Who's Dave?


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## DarkOCean (Jan 27, 2012)

claylomax said:


> Who's Dave?



cadaveca


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## FreedomEclipse (Jan 27, 2012)

claylomax said:


> Who's Dave?



cadaceca


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## lashton (Jan 27, 2012)

*what!*



FreedomEclipse said:


> I am an old member - but i dont recall any of this stuff



Your joking right, EVERYONE knows this not just old members!


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## alexsubri (Jan 27, 2012)

GAME TIME BABY!


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## DannibusX (Jan 27, 2012)

Kepler is too busy finding other planets around other stars to come back to Earth to be benchmarked.


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## RoutedScripter (Jan 27, 2012)

You can get all 5 deleted overclocking.net thread pages via google cache

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ssy&cd=2&hl=sl&ct=clnk&gl=si&client=firefox-a

use " /xx  " for page number 

without = 1 page
 /10 = 2 page
 /40 = 5 page


I don't know why it throws on the second page , at first it did work ... it's a FF/ google bug somehow knowing that i already visited the page and makes werid things so i pasted this url.


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## DarkOCean (Jan 27, 2012)

DannibusX said:


> Kepler is too busy finding other planets around other stars to come back to Earth to be benchmarked.



Cant help my self thinking about that robot from portal 2 . I'm in space ,i'm in space...


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## I blee it (Jan 27, 2012)

I saw on another site where someone was claiming the Kepler (680 GTX?) would be faster than the HD7970 because Kepler would have more tiny hamsters working inside their GPU. I don't think that necessarily proves Kepler will be faster though. The tiny hamsters in the Kepler GPU could be working slower than in the HD 7970 GPU.


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## cadaveca (Jan 27, 2012)

claylomax said:


> Who's Dave?



What rock did you crawl out from?   Seriously though, I've been TPU's motherboard reviewer(and now ram) for a little over a year now.



<--------


Nice to see my name color matches my Avatar, too.


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## ensabrenoir (Jan 27, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> What rock did you crawl out from?   Seriously though, I've been TPU's motherboard reviewer(and now ram) for a little over a year now
> 
> <--------
> Alw
> Nice to see my name color matches my Avatar, too.



Always wondered how u pronounce that.....  I  see it as  ca   dave  ca

Ca  ca is well u know....and Dave is in the middle of it
Dont mean any disrespect or anything....just always wondered


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## Benetanegia (Jan 27, 2012)

kajson said:


> The Intel comparison only works if you're saying Nvidia has a totally superior product, and the profit Nvidia is turning over compared to Intel isn't really in the same ballpark healthwise.



Most rumors do say that Kepler will be better than AMD's offerings. And no I'm not talking about rumors coming from Chiphell. The general idea is that performance class Kepler matches/beats HD7970 and a mid-range/performance class chip would never sell for more than $300. $300 is already a stretch considering the card that will replace is now selling for $200.

My own crystal ball says so, based on Fermi vs GCN, and considering the posibility that Nvidia improved on what Fermi was a "failure", instead of just simply assuming Kepler will be even worse.

I stand by my point anyway that it wouldn't be the first time that Nvidia does something like that. They did it with the 8800 GT and it worked wonders for them and they did it with GTX460 and it worked very well too. Both were arguably bigger chips than GK104 will (or could) be, and unlike now (potentially) also much bigger than AMD counterparts, so the profit margin is potentially much bigger this time around. They will also have the high-end chip to enjoy the great high-end margins, while forcing AMD to very low margins, by fighting their high-end with their mid-range/performance chip, that is potentially smaller and maybe 256 bits. Time will tell of course, but one thing is 100% sure, the concept that Nvidia cannot release a better value card is simply wrong. They they did it plenty of times before and they could do it now. In fact, in 5 years Nvidia never had a better oportunity than now. AMD finally entering the GPGPU scene after 5 years of Nvidia doing so could only have this consequence. I don't know if this advantage will materialize or not, but common sense says that it will.


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## thebluebumblebee (Jan 27, 2012)

I find this intriguing, because most companies today put their employees through some form of "Service Excellence" and one of the basic things that you are taught is to "under promise and over deliver". But, for some reason, those who sell CPU's and GPU's have been allowed to do just the opposite and we allow them to get away with it.  Intel is saying that Ivy Bridge is supposed to be 100% faster then Sandy bridge.  Anyone believe them?  Wasn't SB's performance also lower than we were told? (was it supposed to be a 50% increase but ended up more like barely 20%?) Don't even need to mention AMD's flub with Phenom.


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## HumanSmoke (Jan 27, 2012)

thebluebumblebee said:


> Intel is saying that Ivy Bridge is supposed to be 100% faster then Sandy bridge.


Sorry... 
That's bullshit.
You won't find any Intel literature claiming any such thing (although I'm open to being proven wrong). As far as I'm aware this is Intel's comparison from the Ivy Bridge roadmap (with iGP performance percentage significantly higher...but then if you're starting from such a low baseline numbers...)







thebluebumblebee said:


> Anyone believe them?


Believe them? I'm having a hard enough job believing you.


thebluebumblebee said:


> Wasn't SB's performance also lower than we were told? (was it supposed to be a 50% increase but ended up more like barely 20%?)


Nope....But yeah, it's a real pig. Performance like that should be damn easy to beat


thebluebumblebee said:


> Don't even need to mention AMD's flub with Phenom.


You probably don't need to go that far back if you're looking for AMD CPU hyperbole


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## cadaveca (Jan 27, 2012)

ensabrenoir said:


> Always wondered how u pronounce that.....  I  see it as  ca   dave  ca
> 
> Ca  ca is well u know....and Dave is in the middle of it
> Dont mean any disrespect or anything....just always wondered






Yes, Dave in the middle of some caca.

CA = Canada though. There is a story behind that, of course, but you'll ahve to pop into the TPU BF3 Teamspeak to get that one outta me 




thebluebumblebee said:


> I find this intriguing, because most companies today put their employees through some form of "Service Excellence" and one of the basic things that you are taught is to "under promise and over deliver". But, for some reason, those who sell CPU's and GPU's have been allowed to do just the opposite and we allow them to get away with it.  Intel is saying that Ivy Bridge is supposed to be 100% faster then Sandy bridge.  Anyone believe them?  Wasn't SB's performance also lower than we were told? (was it supposed to be a 50% increase but ended up more like barely 20%?) Don't even need to mention AMD's flub with Phenom.



So, of course, I've been really busy the past couple of weeks. So to come to the forum and fimd this topic is surprising..I'm kinda outta the loop right now.

Anyway, my first thought was exactly what you just posted. AMD spins some stuff about BD, and everyone forgot?

I kinda see it as part of my job here @ TPU to dispell any rumours or such, by providing reviews that show the truth, with results that anyone can duplicate. I'm lucky in having the oppotunity to investigate these things myself in this way, but hte one thing I have learned in the past year is that this is marketing, and marketing may start off based on projected targets, and those targets get missed. BD, for example. While it was poorly executed, in my opinion, the marketing staff @ AMD had some fantastic ideas...just didn't execute them well.

If I was Nvidia, I'd want to hop on that, and push AMD's buttons, so to speak, reminding potential customers that AMD has in the recent past, failed to deliver.

So now, I see we ahve a thread here about how people feel about AMD delivery of the 7970, and similar topics on other forums...wouldn't surprise me one bit if it was all done at Nvidia's behest, and I find no fault in them doing so, either. It's marketing, and anything you can do when providing marketing to spin stuff to your favor is gonna happen.


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## seronx (Jan 27, 2012)

Pift 7970, it doesn't have a chance


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## DigitalUK (Jan 27, 2012)

a card that comes out at least 6 months after the competition had better be faster.


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## buggalugs (Jan 28, 2012)

Im not sure if its true or not, it wouldnt surprise me, I know Apple did stuff like that for years.

 Whenever there was a negative news article about Microsoft, say the latest virus that was causing havoc, the first comments in the comment section were Apple guys saying how good Apple products are and that people should buy a Mac. 

 Apple are the masters of stealth advertising


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## Nihilus (Jan 28, 2012)

thebluebumblebee said:


> I find this intriguing, because most companies today put their employees through some form of "Service Excellence" and one of the basic things that you are taught is to "under promise and over deliver". But, for some reason, those who sell CPU's and GPU's have been allowed to do just the opposite and we allow them to get away with it.  Intel is saying that Ivy Bridge is supposed to be 100% faster then Sandy bridge.  Anyone believe them?  Wasn't SB's performance also lower than we were told? (was it supposed to be a 50% increase but ended up more like barely 20%?) Don't even need to mention AMD's flub with Phenom.



Very well said, bumblebee.  I think the other major culprits are cell phone companies and internet service providers.  These "digital age" companies provide nice products but customer service went to crap.  Oh, and everyone needs to stop putting rumors on a pedestal.  That's everyone's fault.  Absolutely zero validity in today's sources.  COLD HARD facts are the only thing that matter now.  You don't see Dodge or Chevy "leaking rumors" about an "F-150 killer".  If they do nobody cares, and they will wait for road tests.


----------



## Nihilus (Jan 28, 2012)

*Fueling the fire*



seronx said:


> Pift 7970, it doesn't have a chance





DigitalUK said:


> a card that comes out at least 6 months after the competition had better be faster.


 
What does this have to do with marketing?  TPU has many hardware stories for this kind of flag-waving.  You two "bros" remind me of when Sony had hired people for "Guerrilla Marketing"  saying how AWESOME the PSP was.


----------



## THE_EGG (Jan 28, 2012)

R_1 said:


> This round in GPU wars ain't cheap for end-users. AMD pricing is a lot like Nvidia-s, even higher. That is not MSRP $249-$349 for HD4870/4850 , or $259-$379 for HD5850/5870, or  $299-$369 for HD6970/6950. We are facing $???-$550 MSRP for HD7950/7970, even worse $650-$750 in Europe. That is over 200% higher price for Europe, compared to previous AMD generation and lot worse, as we accounted $199 HD4850 vs. $650 HD7950. So let's see what GK104 can do. Patience can pay off this time.



lol its $750-$850 in Australia :shadedshu while the gtx 580 ranges between $480-$600. GTX 580's at my local comp stores are nearly always sold out since the 7970 came out.


----------



## seronx (Jan 28, 2012)

Nihilus said:


> You two "bros" remind me of when Sony had hired people for "Guerrilla Marketing"  saying how AWESOME the PSP was.



Any case the 
512 CUDA part will be clocked beyond 900MHz
1024 CUDA part will be around 500-700MHz

Both will kill the 7970, I has done the maths


----------



## THE_EGG (Jan 28, 2012)

seronx said:


> Any case the
> 512 CUDA part will be clocked beyond 900MHz
> 1024 CUDA part will be around 500-700MHz
> 
> Both will kill the 7970, I has done the maths



hmm that 512 CUDA part sounds disappointing considering I've overclocked my 580 to 905 (925 for benching). All I can say is that it had better be an awesome overclocker like the 7970.


----------



## qubit (Jan 28, 2012)

seronx said:


> Any case the
> 512 CUDA part will be clocked beyond 900MHz
> 1024 CUDA part will be around 500-700MHz
> 
> Both will kill the 7970, I has done the maths



Yes, it might "kill" the 7970, but then again it might not. We just don't know until the official benchmarks. I love the certainty that you claim it will, by "doing the maths", lol.


----------



## THE_EGG (Jan 28, 2012)

qubit said:


> Yes, it might "kill" the 7970, but then again it might not. We just don't know until the official benchmarks. I love the certainty that you claim it will, by "doing the maths", lol.



+1 here, BD certainly looked fantastic on paper but in real life it was an epic fail so there is no idea in knowing performance until official benchmarks and results are released.


----------



## alwayssts (Jan 28, 2012)

Sure, it's rumor and speculation until we see real products and results, but when multiple independent sources whom have proven to be correct in the past all say the same thing it lends credence to the distinct possibility of there being some truth...especially when it makes sense given nVIDIA's regular formula and AMD made some odd decisions...which nvidia hinted at and I will point out.  Does that make us trying to infer schills?  Why?  Because although nVIDIA has a pretty terrible engineering rep they may have made a good decision?  

For instance: 

nVIDIA's mid-range chip has been around the same performance/clock of AMD's high-end since G92.  Given architectural differences, the main discernible difference in performance can be boiled down to clockspeed and market placement.  There was never going to be a 2GB 880mhz SKU for GF114 because it would have been over the mid-range 225w and hurt sales of GF110.  I'm sure there is math thrown into the mix figuring in yields with that high of a clock on that size chip and that played a role in their chip stack decisions.  Perhaps that is why GF114 was abundant and 6970 not-so-much.

AMD generally clocks their parts very high compared to nvidia on a given process which allows this overlap to occur.  On the 7970 SKU they were clearly conservative given it's high-end market placement yet small die size/minimalist design and that is SUPER FREAKING KEY TO THIS CONVERSATION.  Look at power consumption in W1z's review and where it lands compared to nVIDIA's last gen (or even 6970).  Between a 560ti and (6970/)570.  That is telling, if not foreboding.  Tahiti is a good chip; The 7970 would be a great high-end SKU if clocked higher on the core.  As it sits it is meddling between where the mid-range and high-end should be, yet is built for enthusiasts.  There's overclocking, but that is not how reviews compare products...they use stock skus.

Look at performance of 7970 at 1920x1200 or 1920x1080 versus a slew of other cards...or the leaked 7950 results.  At those resolutions 7970 is not the most efficient, it is clearly aimed higher-up the foodchain...this is backed up by the 384-bit bus and 3GB of memory that do squat at 1920.  7950 is fairly efficient at 1920, but a little under-powered...yet is still built with above 1920 in mind (384-bit, 3gb)...WTF?

I simply ask myself:  

Is it feasible nvidia will create a chip similar in size to Tahiti for the mid-range?  
Yes.

Is it feasible it will be more efficient at 1920?  
Yes, if between 7950-7970 architecturally.  This makes sense as all signs point to nvidia releasing another chip (or even sku using the same chip) for higher resolutions.

Will a 256-bit bus/2gb hurt them in this market?  
No, unless the mem clockspeed is super low in proportion to the core. 

Is it likely slower at stock than 7970 and perhaps 7950?
Probably; if clockspeeds are low for one of the myriad of reasons (keep the price/power down, nvidia's memory controller still sucks and/or they use slower/low-power gddr5, it corresponds with where they want it placed in their own product stack or versus the competition etc).  The point is that there is room for a better design than Tahiti aimed at the largest possible market.  That, and there is always overclocking.  

I personally don't write about these things to root for either camp, even if my heart as a geek lies with ATi.  I just find it all interesting to try to figure out, and maybe some of my ramblings help someone else learn something or make a better decision for their needs.  I think a lot of times people like me come across like we're making zealous assumptions to further a fanboy agenda (and some are, or just being hyperbolic) when in reality we're just like anyone else interested in this stuff, just a bit more long-winded or in some cases lacking the ability to communicate rationally.  I think this may be the case at CHH...but who knows.


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## seronx (Jan 28, 2012)

THE_EGG said:


> hmm that 512 CUDA part sounds disappointing considering I've overclocked my 580 to 905 (925 for benching). All I can say is that it had better be an awesome overclocker like the 7970.



Beyond 900MHz

It can be anywhere in 950MHz(200W TDP) to 1150MHz(250W TDP)


512 -> 950-1150MHz 
768 -> 750-900MHz
1024 -> 550-700MHz

200W -> 250W on each



qubit said:


> Yes, it might "kill" the 7970, but then again it might not. We just don't know until the official benchmarks. I love the certainty that you claim it will, by "doing the maths", lol.



It will 7970 is a minor improvement on Fermi...so little Kepler will just roll right over it like a steamroller


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## HalfAHertz (Jan 28, 2012)

seronx said:


> Beyond 900MHz
> 
> It can be anywhere in 950MHz(200W TDP) to 1150MHz(250W TDP)
> 
> ...



Here we go again. You did the exact same number pulling from one's behind before the bulldozer launch and we all know how that turned out. Please do us and yourself a favor and  keep your crazy math skillZ to yourself.


----------



## qubit (Jan 28, 2012)

seronx said:


> It will 7970 is a minor improvement on Fermi...so little Kepler will just roll right over it like a steamroller



Ya know, I have _confidence_ that nvidia's next gen will be significantly faster than the 7970 and my GTX 580 is excellent. However, there's no way you can say with _any_ certainty that this will be the case.

Get us some leaked benchmarks from a _reputable_ source and we'll start to take you seriously. Yeah, this I'd really like to see.


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## seronx (Jan 28, 2012)

HalfAHertz said:


> Here we go again. You did the exact same number pulling from one's behind before the bulldozer launch and we all know how that turned out. Please do us and yourself a favor and  keep your crazy math skillZ to yourself.



And, I was right Bulldozer is the highest performing part on the market



qubit said:


> Ya know, I have _confidence_ that nvidia's next gen will be significantly faster than the 7970 and my GTX 580 is excellent. However, there's no way you can say with _any_ certainty that this will be the case.



ALUs x Ops x Clockrate

All you need to know

You make it sound like every architecture known to mankind is some magical unknown unfathomable device and I can tell you there isn’t anything fundamentally “magic” about processor design


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## qubit (Jan 28, 2012)

seronx said:


> And, I was right Bulldozer is the highest performing part on the market
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bulldozer is indeed the highest performing part - in your mind. 

That ALUs x Ops x Clockrate thing is BS. The efficiencies of the design make a huge difference. That's why it takes so much money, time and effort to bring a new design to market.


----------



## Nihilus (Jan 28, 2012)

seronx said:


> And, I was right Bulldozer is the highest performing part on the market
> 
> ALUs x Ops x Clockrate
> 
> ...



Nothing is perfectly linear, there are always bottlenecks and unforeseen surprises - good or bad.  You were kidding about BD, right?   Please remember these tech companies are massive.  So even 100 "independent sources" is just a small chunk of there marketing department.  They are doing it with next-gen consoles too.


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## seronx (Jan 28, 2012)

qubit said:


> Bulldozer is indeed the highest performing part - in your mind.



You just are proving you have no idea what the heck you are talking about 



qubit said:


> That ALUs x Ops x Clockrate thing is BS.



It isn't BS.



Nihilus said:


> Nothing is perfectly linear, there are always bottlenecks and unforeseen surprises - good or bad.  You were kidding about BD, right?



No surprises on this run and no I am not

People are referencing Bulldozer as a whole and Bulldozer as a whole is rather very competitive


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## EarthDog (Jan 28, 2012)

Damn_Smooth said:


> They really need to put up or shut up. It's not like they're slowing sales of the constantly sold out 7970 anyway.


The card is great, but its extremely limited availability is a paper launch to me. Even though the 7950 was delayed for more availability, I would expect it to be limited as well. Not as bad as the 7970, but limited.




This place cracks me up.


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## qubit (Jan 28, 2012)

seronx said:


> You just are proving you have no idea what the heck you are talking about



All right smartypants. You're asserting how Bulldozer is this mythical highest performaing part, so _you_ prove it. This should be interesting since there's overwhelming evidence that it isn't. Oh and that overclocking record doesn't count. 

Do this and myself and the rest of this forum might stop thinking that you're simply a troll.

btw, I haven't seen those nice leaked benchmarks I challenged you on.  Come on, let's see them.


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## THE_EGG (Jan 28, 2012)

What is with this seronx guy?!


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 28, 2012)

seronx said:


> And, I was right Bulldozer is the highest performing part on the market


.........ok Ill bite.

How do you figure this when every major benchmark on every mainstream site says different? I'm not trollin, I want to know how you come to the conclusion Bulldozer is the highest performing part on the market when every viable statistic says otherwise.

I don't want fuzzy math. I'm a meat and potatos guy. Sell me Bulldozer. Why should I go with Bulldozer over a 2600K? Price is irrelevant.


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## GC_PaNzerFIN (Jan 28, 2012)

NVIDIA made too big promises when they were working with GTX 4xx and people rightfully were disappointed with them. And now when they don't make promises too early people still hate them. 

You just can't please everyone no matter what you do...

I take all accusations without a single proof with ton of salt, but I don't say it can't be true either. But hell this soap opera about new GPUs has gone out of hands. Have some patience and ignore the crappy rumors till you hear something from the green giant itself.


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## THE_EGG (Jan 28, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> .........ok Ill bite.
> 
> How do you figure this when every major benchmark on every mainstream site says different? I'm not trollin, I want to know how you come to the conclusion Bulldozer is the highest performing part on the market when every viable statistic says otherwise.
> 
> I don't want fuzzy math. I'm a meat and potatos guy. Sell me Bulldozer. Why should I go with Bulldozer over a 2600K? Price is irrelevant.



hey MailMan its a little irrelevant but you have leet thanks  1337


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## qubit (Jan 28, 2012)

THE_EGG said:


> hey MailMan its a little irrelevant but you have leet thanks  1337



Shall I thank another one of his posts and ruin it?


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 28, 2012)

qubit said:


> Shall I thank another one of his posts and ruin it?



You can't. Only I can. Its not thanked posts. Its how many post I thanked.


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## qubit (Jan 28, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> You can't. Only I can. Its not thanked posts. Its how many post I thanked.



Oh duh. Yes, of course.  Truly a facepalm moment, lol.


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## I blee it (Jan 28, 2012)

GC_PaNzerFIN said:


> NVIDIA made too big promises when they were working with GTX 4xx and people rightfully were disappointed with them. And now when they don't make promises too early people still hate them.
> 
> You just can't please everyone no matter what you do...
> 
> I take all accusations without a single proof with ton of salt, but I don't say it can't be true either. But hell this soap opera about new GPUs has gone out of hands. Have some patience and ignore the crappy rumors till you hear something from the green giant itself.




 Well said! Does anyone really believe that Nvidia isn't going to stomp on the HD7970 when Kepler makes it's debut? It's coming.  Waiting a few couple of months don't mean squat when you have to wait anyway for the HD 7970 "paper tiger" to materialize. And god help you with the innevitable driver issues with AMD.


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## Damn_Smooth (Jan 28, 2012)

EarthDog said:


> The card is great, but its extremely limited availability is a paper launch to me. Even though the 7950 was delayed for more availability, I would expect it to be limited as well. Not as bad as the 7970, but limited.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have no idea what point you are trying to make, but you failed. If you don't think it's time for Nvidia to release Kepler, you have issues that I'm not willing or qualified to help you with. Keep sitting there and laughing though, someone will eventually come along that cares enough to take you to a place where you can get that help.



THE_EGG said:


> What is with this seronx guy?!



Long story short, he bounces numbers around his head all day until they form some jumble that defies all logic. Then he spreads the mess as fact.


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## THE_EGG (Jan 28, 2012)

Damn_Smooth said:


> I have no idea what point you are trying to make, but you failed. If you don't think it's time for Nvidia to release Kepler, you have issues that I'm not willing or qualified to help you with. Keep sitting there and laughing though, someone will eventually come along that cares enough to take you to a place where you can get that help.
> 
> 
> 
> Long story short, he bounces numbers around his head all day until they form some jumble that defies all logic. Then he spreads the mess as fact.



ah thanks for the explanation


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## seronx (Jan 28, 2012)

Damn_Smooth said:


> Long story short, he bounces numbers around his head all day until they form some jumble that defies all logic. Then he spreads the mess as fact.



Nope.  Most of the time I am playing video games 



qubit said:


> Do this and myself and the rest of this forum might stop thinking that you're simply a troll.



Well I just enjoy being green!

Can't help but support the green team











qubit said:


> btw, I haven't seen those nice leaked benchmarks I challenged you on.  Come on, let's see them.



What leaked benchmarks?



TheMailMan78 said:


> I don't want fuzzy math. I'm a meat and potatos guy. Sell me Bulldozer. Why should I go with Bulldozer over a 2600K? Price is irrelevant.



Well, you already have an 990FX board... I don't know your workloads so you have to tell me your workloads aka tell me your applications


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## NdMk2o1o (Jan 28, 2012)

Huh how is this news?


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## buggalugs (Jan 28, 2012)

THE_EGG said:


> lol its $750-$850 in Australia :shadedshu while the gtx 580 ranges between $480-$600. GTX 580's at my local comp stores are nearly always sold out since the 7970 came out.



 You can get a 7970 for $699 in Australia, and the price should drop by the end of the month. I havent seen any stores sold out of 580's but the 7970's sold out within a couple of days. Dont know where you live but all the major stores in Melbourne have plenty of 580's.

 They just got new stock of 7970's in the last few days and they put the price up but they're still selling.

 The 580's were $699-$799 when they were released in Australia so I dont see much difference there.


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## Prima.Vera (Jan 28, 2012)

reverze said:


> no surprise, i am sure older members on this forum will remember how nvidia paid well respected members of tech forums to make pro nvidia posts.



Yeah, good ol` days of '90, when 3Dfx was trashing everything, including ATI's Rage or Nvidia's Riva...Yes I remember those days, he he..


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## THE_EGG (Jan 28, 2012)

buggalugs said:


> You can get a 7970 for $699 in Australia, and the price should drop by the end of the month. I havent seen any stores sold out of 580's but the 7970's sold out within a couple of days. Dont know where you live but all the major stores in Melbourne have plenty of 580's.
> 
> They just got new stock of 7970's in the last few days and they put the price up but they're still selling.
> 
> The 580's were $699-$799 when they were released in Australia so I dont see much difference there.



lucky , my local MSY and Gamedude is sold out of 580's. I have to drive into the CBD of Brisbane pretty much (25-45 min depending on traffic) to get to a place that has it in stock. Yes I just check umart and the cheapest 7970 (HIS) is $699 so I guess that isn't too bad. Looks like most of them have decreased about $50 since release.


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## p3gaz_001 (Jan 28, 2012)

sorry but... this nvidia's bullshit and whatever is becoming ridiculous ........


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## radrok (Jan 28, 2012)

Come on, come on guys we all know who is going to win this round...










Intel's Ivy Bridge IGP running DX11 on VLC


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## p3gaz_001 (Jan 28, 2012)

radrok said:


> Come on, come on guys we all know who is going to win this round...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



ahahah for sure!!!


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 28, 2012)

AMD has had a really strong execution of product release for the last 2 series of cards. Honestly I wont spend more than 300 on a card these days ( Yes R9700 Pro AIW was 400 at the time)


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## I blee it (Jan 28, 2012)

Mark my words. Nvidia is going to romp all over AMD yet again...it's not like AMD isn't used to getting butt-stomped by the big dogs. Intel anyone!?!
Sad to see, but even the AMD fanboys are falling by the wayside. Seen it before. PS3 will whoop Xbox360...lmao BlueRay wins the day!?! Stagnant. What's next?

Everyone I know isn't peeing their pants in anticipation of Nvidia nuking the latest AMD puke-card. Story is over. Guess who won? 

So...what's next?

More of what we already have. Not only because the current generation is profitable but also because the current generation of consolers are conditioned to "play" whatever the usual Drivel-Makers plop down on the market. (Not all included)


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 28, 2012)

So why is it that majority of users here have AMD cards now even crossfire and x2 models? 



I blee it said:


> Mark my words. Nvidia is going to romp all over AMD yet again...it's not like AMD isn't used to getting butt-stomped by the big dogs. Intel anyone!?!
> Sad to see, but even the AMD fanboys are falling by the wayside. Seen it before. PS3 will whoop Xbox360...lmao BlueRay wins the day!?! Stagnant. What's next?
> 
> Everyone I know isn't peeing their pants in anticipation of Nvidia nuking the latest AMD puke-card. Story is over. Guess who won?
> ...


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## ensabrenoir (Jan 28, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> So why is it that majority of users here have AMD cards now even crossfire and x2 models?



Its simple really..........THEY ROCK .... straight jimmy hendricks in his prime kinda rock.
And theyre.....were  cheap.  Nvidia always had more muscle though.  Even though this time I will get nvidia...cant deny how good amd/ati  product is...gpu wise


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 28, 2012)

ensabrenoir said:


> Its simple really..........THEY ROCK .... straight jimmy hendricks in his prime kinda rock.
> And theyre.....were  cheap.  Nvidia always had more muscle though.  Even though this time I will get nvidia...cant deny how good amd/ati  product is...gpu wise



Me personally can only see NV having a good lead back during the 8800 series. Odd enuf the 640MB 8800 GTS was very sought after due to the framebuffer size, Most kept a hold of their GTX and Ultra Models as well.

AMD has been providing solid products for the last 3 cycles though, 4800 series might not been fastest out but they were able to maintain good framerates compared to the 2900 and 3800 series. Before that AMD did well with the x800 series despite not having the latest SM tech for that time. X1900/1950 series. Then of Course the 9700 Pro.


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## I blee it (Jan 28, 2012)

"So why is it that majority of users here have AMD cards now even crossfire and x2 models?"

Skipped the drivers issue I see. <sigh> same 'ol same 'ol

Anyway. Thanks for making my point. The Graphics Cards Battle isn't about who's best. It's about fan based loyalty. The same holds true with console-playing-weenies. 

So, as a purportedly semi-intelligent monky would ask me... wtf?

What's next is the real ?

And?


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## erocker (Jan 28, 2012)

I blee it said:


> "So why is it that majority of users here have AMD cards now even crossfire and x2 models?"
> 
> Skipped the drivers issue I see. <sigh> same 'ol same 'ol
> 
> ...



I see no point to your post or how it relates to the topic of the thread. Keep on topic please.

Thanks!


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## I blee it (Jan 28, 2012)

My apologies...I went on a blithering rant...now back on topic...Nvidia went on a rogue PsyOp according to a Chinese Forum? ummm wtf?


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## Steevo (Jan 28, 2012)

What if this is really happening so they can wash their hands and Bene is just a Nvidia undercover employee?

Or what if I work for AMD, god I need to get paid more money. Only a few hundred worth of hardware anymore, and feeling raped on the X1800XT.


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## theeldest (Jan 29, 2012)

HisSvt2 said:


> this doesn't surprise me one bit funny my low post count but my join date is older than the op's



Nice.

Oh, me too!


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## theeldest (Jan 29, 2012)

Also, I don't think anyone actually believes AMD's latest card is supposed to compete with nVidia's top model. They went quite a bit smaller with the die size when they're already quite a bit smaller than nVidia's largest.

They're aiming for the best profits on mainstream, but since they released first they're raking in as much as they can as their mainstream card competes above current top-of-the-line cards.

Comon, guys. 6970 was quite a bit smaller than the 580 (389mm^2 vs 520mm^2). AMD knows that to take the performance crown from nVidia they'd need a bigger card. But they went down to 352mm^2 in the 7970. It's about margins in the mainstream and taking advantage of the quicker launch.

nVidia's GK114 will probably be right where the 7970 is, maybe quicker, maybe slower. The GK110 will definitely roll right over it. But they'll both make quite a bit of money this round as they're going to control different parts of the market.


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## THE_EGG (Jan 29, 2012)

theeldest said:


> Also, I don't think anyone actually believes AMD's latest card is supposed to compete with nVidia's top model. They went quite a bit smaller with the die size when they're already quite a bit smaller than nVidia's largest.
> 
> They're aiming for the best profits on mainstream, but since they released first they're raking in as much as they can as their mainstream card competes above current top-of-the-line cards.
> 
> ...



+1 here which is why I think that the 6 billion transistor rumour of Kepler's high end card is a possibility.


----------



## ensabrenoir (Jan 29, 2012)

THE_EGG said:


> +1 here which is why I think that the 6 billion transistor rumour of Kepler's high end card is a possibility.



 I propose all transistor counts be done  by a an indipendent  third party


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## semantics (Jan 29, 2012)

ensabrenoir said:


> I propose all transistor counts be done  by a an indipendent  third party


well we already know amd can't count


----------



## wahdangun (Jan 29, 2012)

so anyone ever heard of nvdia focus group ?


----------



## Recus (Jan 29, 2012)

Knowing Chinese fake jet, nApoleon can bark everything he wants. : P


----------



## Boilerhog (Jan 29, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> What rock did you crawl out from?   Seriously though, I've been TPU's motherboard reviewer(and now ram) for a little over a year now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



" Cheech "Hey, IT's me Dave.
"Tommy"  Daves not here.
"Cheech" nooo,it's me Dave.
"Tommy"Daves not here ..
"cheech"open the door man ,let me in.is Dave.
'Tommy"Go away ,Daves not here ,

ROTF...


----------



## redeye (Jan 29, 2012)

i say that nvidia wants to stop the rumours so they don't have to meet high expectations... 
BTW the rumours about bulldozer were true if you overclock it like crazy(on phase change, or arctic room temps, or ln2 (LOL) while it is unreasonable to do that, it is still true. )
whereas these nvidia rumours are crazy because they are purely wishful thinking... YES I want a 300 dollar gpu the power of an 580. a 580 is fast enough!.

i'm hoping that the 7990 is 850.. 

the problem nvidia has a better driver staff,  whereas amd has a better hardware design staff...


----------



## claylomax (Jan 30, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> What rock did you crawl out from?   Seriously though, I've been TPU's motherboard reviewer(and now ram) for a little over a year now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Of course I know cadaveca; He reviews motherboards and ram for the Techpowerup website. I just didn't know your name was Dave!


----------

