# Elon Musk Being Sued For 258 Billion Dollars Over Alleged Dogecoin Pyramid Scheme



## 64K (Jun 17, 2022)

Someone has filed this suit accusing Musk of touting Dogecoins to drive the price up only to let it fall.









I have never seen an individual being sued for a quarter of a trillion dollars.










						Elon Musk sued for $258 billion over alleged Dogecoin pyramid scheme
					

Elon Musk was sued for $258 billion on Thursday by a Dogecoin investor who accused him of running a pyramid scheme to support the cryptocurrency.




					www.reuters.com


----------



## hat (Jun 17, 2022)

Good luck with that one.


----------



## Rithsom (Jun 17, 2022)

Dogecoin might be a pyramid scheme, but suing $258 billion over it is ridiculous. Maybe they'd have a better chance at winning if they, you know, weren't so greedy?


----------



## 64K (Jun 17, 2022)

Rithsom said:


> Dogecoin might be a pyramid scheme, but suing $258 billion over it is ridiculous. Maybe they'd have a better chance at winning if they, you know, weren't so greedy?



I doubt he will get anything like a 258 billion dollar settlement. He might get to recover his losses what ever that is.

I've known several very shrewd investors over the years and they all said the same thing. It's up to the investor to do their due diligence before investing.


----------



## Rithsom (Jun 17, 2022)

64K said:


> I doubt he will get anything like a 258 billion dollar settlement. He might get to recover his losses what ever that is.
> 
> I've known several very shrewd investors over the years and they all said the same thing. It's up to the investor to do their due diligence before investing.



Well said!


----------



## Dr. Dro (Jun 17, 2022)

I'm only going to share my honest opinion: if you hedged all you have against an abstract digital token with no inherent worth, blindly following the opinion of *a single individual that has more purchasing power than most countries on Earth* and missed every red flag and signal until now, *you deserve it!*


----------



## mouacyk (Jun 17, 2022)

Dr. Dro said:


> I'm only going to share my honest opinion: if you hedged all you have against an abstract digital token with no inherent worth, blindly following the opinion of *a single individual that has more purchasing power than most countries on Earth* and missed every red flag and signal until now, *you deserve it!*


Don't need that many conditions even.


----------



## Fangio1951 (Jun 17, 2022)

Welcome to the Dodgy (Doge) crypto scam= can't wait to see them loose the shirts of their back !!


----------



## Outback Bronze (Jun 17, 2022)

64K said:


> only to let it fall.



How did he let it fall? By not buying more when even he was probably well aware it was going down lols.


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Jun 17, 2022)

I'm fairly certain Elon Musk was pumping and dumping DOGEcoin around the time of his SNL-skit. I'm also pretty sure he should be punished over it.

But $258 Billion is... an absurd amount of money. I'm not sure if the plaintiff is sane here. I *DO* want to see Elon Musk punished for his pump-and-dump crap and manipulation of DOGEcoin. But I'm not sure if this particular case is the best way to do so...


----------



## the54thvoid (Jun 17, 2022)

In fairness, Musk (due to his wealth and following) can, and has manipulated crypto markets. His primary use of Twitter is to self-market his companies. In the same way, why else Tweet about crypto but to affect its status, and therefore, value.

But, the flip side is, IMO, investing in crypto is akin to gambling. You can't actually do due diligence on digital currency when they have no regulation or effective safety mechanism.

In regulated markets, it's illegal to artificially manipulate stock value - that's designed to protect investment and the company. Crypto has no such protection. Buyer beware.


----------



## 64K (Jun 17, 2022)

Outback Bronze said:


> How did he let it fall? By not buying more when even he was probably well aware it was going down lols.



It's what the plaintiff alleges. Two things are pretty common in investing. Pumping and Dumping and the other is making an investment seem too risky because they are shorting the stock or commodity. I guess the plaintiff is accusing Musk of driving the price up by touting it and then sold and stopped touting it.



the54thvoid said:


> In fairness, Musk (due to his wealth and following) can, and has manipulated crypto markets. His primary use of Twitter is to self-market his companies. In the same way, why else Tweet about crypto but to affect its status, and therefore, value.
> 
> But, the flip side is, IMO, investing in crypto is akin to gambling. You can't actually do due diligence on digital currency when they have no regulation or effective safety mechanism.
> 
> In regulated markets, it's illegal to artificially manipulate stock value - that's designed to protect investment and the company. Crypto has no such protection. Buyer beware.



It is gambling just like investing in individual stocks or spending a lot of money on lottery tickets or in a casino. The thing to keep in mind is never gamble more money than you can afford to lose.


----------



## Outback Bronze (Jun 17, 2022)

64K said:


> Dumping



Gona be pretty hard to prove when just about every world market has dropped.


----------



## R0H1T (Jun 17, 2022)

the54thvoid said:


> In fairness, Musk (due to his wealth and following) can, and has manipulated crypto markets. His primary use of Twitter is to self-market his companies. In the same way, why else Tweet about crypto but to affect its status, and therefore, value.
> 
> But, the flip side is, IMO, investing in crypto is akin to gambling. You can't actually do due diligence on digital currency when they have no regulation or effective safety mechanism.
> 
> *In regulated markets, it's illegal to artificially manipulate stock value* - that's designed to protect investment and the company. Crypto has no such protection. Buyer beware.


Well he's done that with Twitter as well, so there's that!



dragontamer5788 said:


> I'm also pretty sure he should be punished over it.


In other words he's quite likely to get away, like so many others before him


----------



## 64K (Jun 17, 2022)

R0H1T said:


> In other words he's quite likely to get away, like so many others before him



He could tie it up in court for a long, long time until the plaintiff just gives up. He is the richest man in the world with a net worth of around 219 billion dollars.


----------



## looniam (Jun 17, 2022)

to the moon!

yeah the hype was infectious but i guess some use their head for a hat rack.


----------



## Bones (Jun 17, 2022)

dragontamer5788 said:


> *I'm fairly certain Elon Musk was pumping and dumping DOGEcoin *around the time of his SNL-skit. I'm also pretty sure he should be punished over it.
> 
> But $258 Billion is... an absurd amount of money. I'm not sure if the plaintiff is sane here. *I DO want to see Elon Musk punished for his pump-and-dump crap and manipulation of DOGEcoin*. But I'm not sure if this particular case is the best way to do so...


You went from thinking to actual accusation of action here - Any REAL evidence/proof he _was _doing that?

I believe there is more to it that this because everyone knows CraptoCoin is a risk like the stock market with no guarantee of return of investment - Just like the stock market.
To me I honestly think (Mind you _I think_ - Not know) this is something more political, trying to knock him down over "Certain" things of that nature (*cough-Twitter-cough*) and I'm leaving it at that.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 17, 2022)

Rithsom said:


> Dogecoin might be a pyramid scheme


They aren't claiming that.  They are claiming musks hype and pump and dump things he pulls on twitter is the pyramid scheme.

Basically, they are accusing him of "manipulating" crypto...

Which is pretty ironic.



Bones said:


> Any REAL evidence/proof he _was _doing that?


His twitter feed.  He absolutely is guilty of this, but crypto could've dumped anyways, so the amount is absurd.


----------



## docnorth (Jun 17, 2022)

64K said:


> ....accusing Musk of touting Dogecoins to drive the price up only to let it fall.


Well, it's difficult to imagine that such a huge fortune can be made only with hard, honest work.


----------



## Vayra86 (Jun 17, 2022)

Have versus have not.

Lmao


----------



## Kissamies (Jun 17, 2022)

258B? Damn, though anyone can sue anyone in America so we shall see how this turns up.


----------



## SpittinFax (Jun 17, 2022)

Actual damages = $10,000
Hurt feelings = $257,999,990,000
GRAND TOTAL = $258,000,000,000

I think that the amount he's suing for is fair and reasonable. Good luck Keith, you suffered for this and deserve to win.


----------



## Bones (Jun 17, 2022)

R-T-B said:


> They aren't claiming that.  They are claiming musks hype and pump and dump things he pulls on twitter is the pyramid scheme.
> 
> Basically, they are accusing him of "manipulating" crypto...
> 
> ...


Even if he did, singling him out for what the vast majority involved with crapto was doing all along themselves isn't right.  
I can promise you, chances are the person filing the suit is just as guilty of the same, only on a smaller scale. 
Speaking of "Dumping", that's the lynchpin, here - It could have dumped at anytime anyway - Just like the stockmarket could.


----------



## Vya Domus (Jun 17, 2022)

dragontamer5788 said:


> I'm fairly certain Elon Musk was pumping and dumping DOGEcoin around the time of his SNL-skit. I'm also pretty sure he should be punished over it.



Nah, there is no way he'd actually be involved in anything like that, he would have been sniffed out immediately if he actually did that or had someone do it for him.

What he should have be punished of is the whole BTC environmental thing after he announced that Tesla officially bought billions in BTC, that's an actual conflict of interest.


----------



## ThrashZone (Jun 17, 2022)

Hi,
Think the feds have already fined Musk for his twitter activity 
Don't believe they fined him this much though dream a little dream you won't get it if you don't ask


----------



## the54thvoid (Jun 17, 2022)

Dear Mr Musk. Please donate to me, one million dollars. Just because. 

Taking your advice @ThrashZone .


----------



## ThrashZone (Jun 17, 2022)

the54thvoid said:


> Dear Mr Musk. Please donate to me, one million dollars. Just because.
> 
> Taking your advice @ThrashZone .


Hi,
Have to ask through a lawyer though


----------



## dirtyferret (Jun 17, 2022)

64K said:


> touting Dogecoins to drive the price up only to let it fall.



a dump and pump scheme with crypto currency?  Let's hope this doesn't catch on.


----------



## mb194dc (Jun 17, 2022)

Yes crypto currencies are just a technologically obfuscated pyramid scheme. 

No this lawsuit probably won't go anywhere.


----------



## neatfeatguy (Jun 17, 2022)

Did Elon tweet a few messages that said?
"Doge"
"The Dogefather"

Yes, yes he did.

Did anywhere in his tweets did he mention he guaranteed/promised anyone anything?
No, no he didn't.

Did Elon say?
"Yeah, it's a hustle." (answering a question during a satirical skit on SNL)
Yes, yes he did.

Anyone that thinks Elon was doing a pump and dump for dogecoin is a moron. He guaranteed/promised nothing. His comment "Yeah, it's a hustle." is taken out of context. It was a satire skit that ripped on dogecoin and cryptocurrency as a whole. If anyone feels that Elon was trying to prop up dogecoin and then dump it, you are way out of touch with reality.

I'm not sorry you were taken for a fool and you lost your money. I hope this lawsuit bites you in the ass, Keith Johnson.


----------



## maxfly (Jun 17, 2022)

His hope is that Musk will settle out of court for a tiny fraction of what he's asking. He won't. He will likely counter sue for defamation.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 17, 2022)

Bones said:


> Even if he did, singling him out for what the vast majority involved with crapto was doing all along themselves isn't right.


He's the only one with the influence to meaningfully affect the price.


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Jun 17, 2022)

the54thvoid said:


> Crypto has no such protection.



Are we sure about that?

I'm certainly no legal expert. I think you're right in that its a gray area of law, but it is one that is worthy of being explored in a court case? I've certainly seen *worse* arguments before.



Vya Domus said:


> Nah, there is no way he'd actually be involved in anything like that, he would have been sniffed out immediately if he actually did that or had someone do it for him.
> 
> What he should have be punished of is the whole BTC environmental thing after he announced that Tesla officially bought billions in BTC, that's an actual conflict of interest.



Well, see what @the54thvoid said right there. I think there's reason to believe Musk is legally in the clear here, since Cryptocoins aren't a regulated industry. On the other hand, pumping-and-dumping is almost universally considered shitty behavior, so maybe there's some law on the books about it (even with unregulated instruments).

--------

I can't find the proper docket. There's always a bit of wiggle room with regards to the public statements and the court statements. Lawyers "translate" the argument from legalize into laymans terms. So we get the gist of the argument (pump and dump), but that's probably not the actual legal argument they're using under it all. So we need to find the actual docket and see the actual legal argument if we want to estimate the legitimacy of this case...

EDIT: Found the docket finally. Boy, a lot of court sites are paywalled. Took me a while to find the actual complaint.  https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.581639/gov.uscourts.nysd.581639.1.0.pdf

Hmmmm... yeah. I'm not buying it. Unfortunately. I think this argument is a stretch. What Musk did here should be illegal, but I don't like the plaintiff's argument.

The TL;DR is that Dogecoin is a pyramid scheme, and Elon Musk is behind it. The problem with this argument, is that it applies to Bitcoin (and all the other cryptocoins), and I just don't think that underlying argument would past muster.

That being said: Dogecoin *was* made as a joke, absolutely. Elon Musk absolutely coopted it a bit later for his own pump-and-dump scheme. But you need to make a stronger legal argument than this IMO to be successful in court. So maybe the lawyers can make this specifically a DOGEcoin case (pointing out that BTC wasn't a joke, pointing out that Dogecoin is a joke and maybe even getting testimony from the inventors)


----------



## Vayra86 (Jun 17, 2022)

the54thvoid said:


> Dear Mr Musk. Please donate to me, one million dollars. Just because.
> 
> Taking your advice @ThrashZone .



You're doing it wrong.

'Dear Mr Musk, Please donate to me, one million dollars. Or Else.'


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 17, 2022)

Vayra86 said:


> You're doing it wrong.
> 
> 'Dear Mr Musk, Please donate to me, one million dollars. Or Else.'


That's how you get a ticket to jail.


----------



## Vayra86 (Jun 17, 2022)

R-T-B said:


> That's how you get a ticket to jail.


What do you mean, Else is my new crypto coin


----------



## the54thvoid (Jun 17, 2022)

I mean, he could probably be sued for the business statements he makes but doesn't keep regarding his own companies (Google it yourself). He is very big on bluster which his investors lap up with blind faith. Not denying his clearly exceptional talents but he also makes huge statements which don't hold up to the test of his own-predicted time. In that respect, he's just another corporate elite, over-hyping the product to inflate the perceived value, which in turn leads on the investor.

Oh, and he had a hair weave/transplant a long time ago. That disgruntles me as a proud/bitter bald guy. My motto is never trust a guy with a glorifed wig - they're hiding something.






Elon Musk, circa 2000.


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Jun 17, 2022)

Vayra86 said:


> You're doing it wrong.
> 
> 'Dear Mr Musk, Please donate to me, one million dollars. Or Else.'



No no no. We've gone full circle with this idea already.

1. Serious proposals are written by lawyers, not by normies like you or me.

2. We already see what the serious proposal is.

------------

Get your lawyers to say "Dear Mr. Musk, please donate to me, $258 Billion dollars, or else".

All this "$1 Million" stuff is just not very creative at all! You can ask for way, way, way more money than that!


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 17, 2022)

Vayra86 said:


> What do you mean, Else is my new crypto coin


Sounds shady.


----------



## r9 (Jun 17, 2022)

And if they made double that expected they would have wired the extra money to him ? lol
People dumb enough to lose their money this way is well deserved.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jun 17, 2022)

Fangio1951 said:


> Welcome to the Dodgy (Doge) crypto scam= can't wait to see them loose the shirts of their back !!


All crypto is a pyramid scam


----------



## Luminescent (Jun 20, 2022)

Politicians might be involved in this, it might be just a way to f...k with him, little while ago he was called racist and other crap.
That's what you get if you get involved in politics.


----------



## 64K (Jun 20, 2022)

Luminescent said:


> Politicians might be involved in this, it might be just a way to f...k with him, little while ago he was called racist and other crap.
> That's what you get if you get involved in politics.



Could you clarify this please?


----------



## the54thvoid (Jun 20, 2022)

Luminescent said:


> Politicians might be involved in this, it might be just a way to f...k with him, little while ago he was called racist and other crap.
> That's what you get if you get involved in politics.





64K said:


> Could you clarify this please?



Please don't. Keep the politics in the garbage bin where it belongs. Thread is about a stupidly extravagant lawsuit. Stay on-topic and stay away from the political musings.

Thank you.


----------



## Luminescent (Jun 20, 2022)

the54thvoid said:


> Keep the politics in the garbage bin where it belongs.


Well said!


----------



## ShiBDiB (Jun 20, 2022)

This will get thrown out, crypto is unregulated and offers 0 protections to buyers.


----------



## bonehead123 (Jun 20, 2022)

"Pump & Dump"....

sounds like what happens after you eat way too much at dinner, then have to spend 30+mins on da crapper to get rid of it all, hehehe... ....

But this whole coin thing just proves the old sayings: 

"A fool & his money are soon parted"
"If you fail to plan, then you plan to fail"
"Never invest moar than you can afford to lose"
"A failure to plan on your part does NOT constitute an emergency on my part"


----------



## looniam (Jun 20, 2022)

bonehead123 said:


> "Pump & Dump"....
> 
> sounds like what happens after you eat way too much at dinner, then have to spend 30+mins on da crapper to get rid of it all, hehehe... ....
> 
> ...


you forgot the most important . . .


----------



## claes (Jun 21, 2022)

Offense or defense?









						‘I Am’ Buying—Elon Musk Reveals Surprise Crypto Bet Amid $2 Trillion Bitcoin, Ethereum, BNB, XRP, Solana, Cardano And Dogecoin Price Crash
					

Tesla billionaire Elon Musk has said he is still buying the joke bitcoin rival dogecoin and will continue to support it...




					www.forbes.com


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Jun 21, 2022)

claes said:


> Offense or defense?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> On October 29 [1929], William C. Durant joined with members of the Rockefeller family and other financial giants to buy large quantities of stocks to demonstrate to the public their confidence in the market, but their efforts failed to stop the large decline in prices.



All major market crashes attract the billionares. They always think its a good buy opportunity. Sometimes it works out for them, but in 1929, it didn't work out for Durant or the Rockefellers.


----------

