# AMD Demonstrates Full Support for DirectX 12 at Game Developer Conference



## Cristian_25H (Mar 20, 2014)

Today, AMD announced support for Microsoft and its revamped graphics application programming interface, DirectX 12, a new "console-like" version of the graphics API that has inspired PC gaming for nearly two decades. During the Microsoft-sponsored panel, DirectX: Evolving Microsoft's Graphics Platform, AMD revealed that it will support DirectX 12 on all AMD Radeon GPUs that feature the Graphics Core Next (GCN) architecture.

AMD will support and collaborate with Microsoft on the development of the generational advancement of the API, to continue to improve the experience for both developers and end users.



 



"AMD strongly believes in the benefits gamers and game developers can realize from lower-overhead API development," said Matt Skynner, corporate vice president and general manager, Graphics Business Unit, AMD. "With the Mantle API, AMD has shown the world our commitment to incredible performance, and we look forward to enabling the same performance gains by supporting the industry-standard DirectX 12." 

DirectX 12 will offer tantalizing opportunities for game developers to extract new performance from PC graphics cards with a newly-streamlined language that reduces API overhead. DirectX 12 will be the first generational leap for the platform since DirectX 11 made its debut in 2008.

"AMD has always been an essential partner in the development of DirectX," said Anuj Gosalia, Development Manager, Windows Graphics, Microsoft. "As we start the next chapter for our historic API, we look forward to continued great collaboration with AMD to bring gamers the best possible performance on AMD hardware."

A DirectX 12 support schedule for AMD Radeon GPUs will be published at a later date.

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## R00kie (Mar 20, 2014)

HELL YES, GCN is getting it from day one!


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## Nordic (Mar 20, 2014)

So quick? I know mantle and DX12 have similar goals. Does mantle = Dx12?


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## Disruptor4 (Mar 20, 2014)

Maybe they will be bringing some of Mantle's features etc over to DX12?


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## HumanSmoke (Mar 20, 2014)

james888 said:


> So quick? I know mantle and DX12 have similar goals. Does mantle = Dx12?


Same goal. Utilizing the in-place hardware.
Remember that MS's Xbone already uses a pared down DX11.x with a lot of the PC overhead removed, so it's reasonable to assume that some console features have been ported into the existing D3D framework, and viola, DX12
MS DirectX dev blog will explain it a little more completely, and with much more colour and lovely graphs


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## xkche (Mar 20, 2014)

NVIDIA Fermi don't support DX 11.1 but DX12 yes?


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## Slomo4shO (Mar 20, 2014)

xkche said:


> NVIDIA Fermi don't support DX 11.1 but DX12 yes?



I wouldn't count on it... It will likely not be full support.


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## erocker (Mar 20, 2014)

james888 said:


> So quick? I know mantle and DX12 have similar goals. Does mantle = Dx12?



DX12 = DX11 with some added stuff.


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## jabbadap (Mar 21, 2014)

Slomo4shO said:


> I wouldn't count on it... It will likely not be full support.



http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/


> In addition, NVIDIA will match Microsoft OS support for DX12. Over 70% of gaming PCs are now DX11 based. NVIDIA will support the DX12 API on all the DX11-class GPUs it has shipped; these belong to the Fermi, Kepler and Maxwell architectural families. With more than 50% market share (65% for discrete graphics) among DX11-based gaming systems, NVIDIA alone will provide game developers the majority of the potential installed base.


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## Xzibit (Mar 21, 2014)

> There's currently no release date for DirectX 12, though it has been touted for *holiday 2015*, with a preview release this year.





> Windows 9 'Threshold' release date *April 2015*


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## Fluffmeister (Mar 21, 2014)

Good stuff,  DX12 is shaping up nicely.

God bless vendor agnostic API's.


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## Regenweald (Mar 21, 2014)

erocker said:


> DX12 = DX11 with some added stuff.



No. DX12 = Mantle + DX11.

Do people seriously think that after MS announced that there were no major plans post DX11.xx , within the last handful of months, they made a 'close to the metal' development API, coincidentally after AMD released Mantle ?

Really?..........seriously?


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## renz496 (Mar 21, 2014)

so nvidia will have DX12 for Fermi and forward. why AMD make DX12 available to GCN based only? what happen to 5k and 6k series?


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## darkangel0504 (Mar 21, 2014)

What the hell ? Where is HD 5000 HD 6000 supported, AMD ? Meanwhile, Nividia will support all of DX 11 GPUs .
I hate you, AMD. why you always drop supporting old GPUs ? I will switch to Nvidia, soon.


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## HumanSmoke (Mar 21, 2014)

Regenweald said:


> No. DX12 = Mantle + DX11.


Seems at odds with the actual presentation


Regenweald said:


> Do people seriously think that after MS announced that there were no major plans post DX11.xx


When did this happen? The only prediction of no further DirectX implementation I've seen came from *a PR guy at AMD*....quickly refuted by Microsoft.


Regenweald said:


> within the last handful of months, they made a 'close to the metal' development API, coincidentally after AMD released Mantle ?


No doubt the timing is aimed squarely at Mantle, but the DirectX presentation also stated that Intel and Nvidia had been working with MS for a least a year in the latters case. If DX12 is a kneejerk reaction to Mantle then AMD need a smack upside the head - DX12 running on Nvidia hardware (the Forza 5 demo) just after AMD get some stability into BF4 and a patch for Thief, and just months after Mantle debuted.  That's a damn fast response.











renz496 said:


> so nvidia will have DX12 for Fermi and forward. why AMD make DX12 available to GCN based only? what happen to 5k and 6k series?


It sounds as though AMD's VLIW4 and 5 architectures are too fixed in memory resource usage to effectively use DX12, although that isn't confirmed at this point.


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## darkangel0504 (Mar 21, 2014)

> It sounds as though AMD's VLIW4 and 5 architectures are too fixed in memory resource usage to effectively use DX12, although that isn't confirmed at this point.


It means that DX 12 needs a large amount of VRAM ?


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## HumanSmoke (Mar 21, 2014)

darkangel0504 said:


> It means that DX 12 needs a large amount of VRAM ?


No. The architecture needs to be compliant with the API's usage of memory resources from the sound of it, and the VLIW architecture may not be supportive.
Speculation at this point.


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## Xzibit (Mar 21, 2014)

HumanSmoke said:


> No doubt the timing is aimed squarely at Mantle, but the DirectX presentation also stated that Intel and Nvidia had been working with MS for a least a year in the latters case. If DX12 is a kneejerk reaction to Mantle then AMD need a smack upside the head - DX12 running on Nvidia hardware (the Forza 5 demo) just after AMD get some stability into BF4 and a patch for Thief, and just months after Mantle debuted.  That's a damn fast response.



All they demonstrated there is a successful demo port to PC by a Microsoft Studio (Turn 10).

X-Box One already runs Forza 5 at 1080p 60fps without the need of a Nvidia Titan Black.

Comparable benchmarks would have been better between DX 11 & DX 12 or atleast Forza 5 doing 1080p 60fps on a less powerful windows tablet or phone.

+1 in-house porting skills.
-2 for needing much more powerful hardware to showcase the PC port demo.


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## erocker (Mar 21, 2014)

Regenweald said:


> No. DX12 = Mantle + DX11.
> 
> Do people seriously think that after MS announced that there were no major plans post DX11.xx , within the last handful of months, they made a 'close to the metal' development API, coincidentally after AMD released Mantle ?
> 
> Really?..........seriously?



Until we have applications that actually use it and it's not just talk, I really don't care. If Mantle fails as an API and only becomes a catalyst for Direct X getting back in line it's a win.


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## HumanSmoke (Mar 21, 2014)

Xzibit said:


> X-Box One already runs Forza 5 at 1080p 60fps without the *need* of a Nvidia Titan Black


Really. I thought the demonstration just used a Titan Black rather than _needing_ a Titan Black.
It's not totally unheard of for a vendor to use their flagship card at a PR gig.


What I'm actually seeing is that it took four man-months (equivalent of four people working for one month, or one person working four months*) to get to the demo stage of porting a game to DX12. Assuming, MS and Nvidia were going from a standing start and Mantle caught them cold - as some people here are saying, and DX12 is just DX11+Mantle as some are also saying, it makes you wonder how long AMD and EA DICE sat around with their collective thumbs up their asses to go from a September 2013 presentation  of Mantle (and presumably some work prior to the announcement) to actually getting Mantle out the door four months later...unless of course the Mantle team consists of a single person*


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## rav (Mar 21, 2014)

"*Microsoft adopts Mantle but calls it DX12*
*GDC 2014: Completely different because it is not called Mantle, just ask MS PR"*

http://semiaccurate.com/2014/03/18/microsoft-adopts-mantle-calls-dx12/

How else can AMD announce full support for an API that does not exist yet?


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## dwade (Mar 21, 2014)

So now that Mantle is dead before arrival...


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## HumanSmoke (Mar 21, 2014)

rav said:


> How else can AMD announce full support for an API that does not exist yet?


If that's the case, why was the first demonstration using Nvidia hardware?
Thanks for the Charlie Chuckles link....but no thanks - it's the same joke repeated over and over, and over, and over...
Full support? Seems as though full support means GCN only


> AMD revealed that it will support DirectX 12 on all AMD Radeon GPUs that feature the Graphics Core Next (GCN) architecture


So as far as "full support" goes how is it any different from Nvidia's? 


> NVIDIA will support the DX12 API on all the DX11-class GPUs it has shipped; these belong to the Fermi, Kepler and Maxwell architectural families


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## Xzibit (Mar 21, 2014)

HumanSmoke said:


> Really. I thought the demonstration just used a Titan Black rather than _needing_ a Titan Black.
> It's not totally unheard of for a vendor to use their flagship card at a PR gig.
> What I'm actually seeing is that it took four man-months (equivalent of four people working for one month, or one person working four months*) to get to the demo stage of porting a game to DX12. Assuming, MS and Nvidia were going from a standing start and Mantle caught them cold - as some people here are saying, and DX12 is just DX11+Mantle as some are also saying, it makes you wonder how long AMD and EA DICE sat around with their collective thumbs up their asses to go from a September 2013 presentation  of Mantle (and presumably some work prior to the announcement) to actually getting Mantle out the door four months later...unless of course the Mantle team consists of a single person*







Well they did a good job.  Since they were able to port a lot of the FPS drops aswell on to more powerful hardware.


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## rav (Mar 21, 2014)

HumanSmoke said:


> If that's the case, why was the first demonstration using Nvidia hardware?
> Thanks for the Charlie Chuckles link....but no thanks - it's the same joke repeated over and over, and over, and over...
> Full support? Seems as though full support means GCN only
> 
> So as far as "full support" goes how is it any different from Nvidia's?





HumanSmoke said:


> If that's the case, why was the first demonstration using Nvidia hardware?
> Thanks for the Charlie Chuckles link....but no thanks - it's the same joke repeated over and over, and over, and over...
> Full support? Seems as though full support means GCN only
> 
> So as far as "full support" goes how is it any different from Nvidia's?




Hmmm....  I think that a careful read of what you posted would answer your own question.  All that NVidia said was 'they WILL support Mantle...oops DirectX 12..."  they didn't say they could support it NOW. 

A very big difference but what else would you expect them to say?  Fuhgettabowddit?

Furthermore how can they support an API designed to run on GCN hardware?   That is the real head scratcher!


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## arbiter (Mar 21, 2014)

MS just killed mantle with that news of DX11 cards are compatible with it.  DX12 doesn't have to be as close to metal as mantle is and it would done it, since it has to be made to work with diff card markers has to have be able to deal with some issues. As for AMD not adding support for old 5k/6k cards not real shock as talking like 3 year old cards now. If mid to late 2015 is time table for it then cards will be just that much older, But AMD probably won't get as much flak over the matter that Nvidia would if they did same thing.



HumanSmoke said:


> If that's the case, why was the first demonstration using Nvidia hardware?
> Thanks for the Charlie Chuckles link....but no thanks - it's the same joke repeated over and over, and over, and over...
> Full support? Seems as though full support means GCN only
> 
> So as far as "full support" goes how is it any different from Nvidia's?



Nvidia supports all DX11 parts where as AMD is gonna leave out 5000/6000 series cards. only 7000 seires and up will support it.


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## amdftw (Mar 21, 2014)

darkangel0504 said:


> What the hell ? Where is HD 5000 HD 6000 supported, AMD ? Meanwhile, Nividia will support all of DX 11 GPUs .
> I hate you, AMD. why you always drop supporting old GPUs ? I will switch to Nvidia, soon.


Pff man...
Nv just tricks again, they need only Dx12 sticker, DX12 has a lot switchable effect, NV does not support either, AMD GCN does.
NV again just mislead, every DX11 gpu will support DX12, but many special effects won't be supported, Microsoft held DX12 criterion very low...


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## HumanSmoke (Mar 21, 2014)

rav said:


> All that NVidia said was 'they WILL support Mantle...oops DirectX 12..."  they didn't say they could support it NOW.


Well, since the DX12 demo is running with Nvidia hardware and not AMD hardware you could argue that Nvidia have at least demonstrated that DX12 presently runs on their GPUs. I'm guessing Microsoft couldn't wait for 2015 to get a working DX12 driver from AMD 


rav said:


> Furthermore how can they support an API designed to run on GCN hardware?


According to the DX12 presentation, of the IHV's, Intel have the longest involvement with the API.


rav said:


> That is the real head scratcher!


When you reach vacuum...STOP!


amdftw said:


> Pff man...etc etc etc


I'm assuming amdftw stands for AMD for the whine.


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## fullinfusion (Mar 21, 2014)

good for you AMD thanks for not making us but new cards again!


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## pr0n Inspector (Mar 21, 2014)

In related news, 
NVIDIA, AMD, Intel Explain How* OpenGL* Can Unlock 15x Performance Gains


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## rav (Mar 21, 2014)

HumanSmoke said:


> Well, since the DX12 demo is running with Nvidia hardware and not AMD hardware you could argue that Nvidia have at least demonstrated that DX12 presently runs on their GPUs. I'm guessing Microsoft couldn't wait for 2015 to get a working DX12 driver from AMD
> 
> According to the DX12 presentation, of the IHV's, Intel have the longest involvement with the API.
> 
> ...



Hmm.  mindless trolls every where.

What was running on nVdia silicon was a DEMO.  Not DirectX 12.  "Microsoft tells us the PC Forza demo "was simply a rendering tech demo to showcase the power and ease of development for DX12. We have no plans to release Forza Motorsport 5, or any other Microsoft Studios Xbox One title on PC." When asked about specific enhancements for Xbox One, Microsoft confirmed that DX12 was on the roadmap for the console, but "beyond that, we have nothing more to share."
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-directx-12-revealed-coming-to-xbox-one

So put your troll away and lets not jump off the ledge yet okay?


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## pr0n Inspector (Mar 21, 2014)

rav said:


> Hmm.  mindless trolls every where.
> 
> What was running on nVdia silicon was a DEMO.  Not DirectX 12.  "Microsoft tells us the PC Forza demo "was simply a rendering tech demo to showcase the power and ease of development for DX12. We have no plans to release Forza Motorsport 5, or any other Microsoft Studios Xbox One title on PC." When asked about specific enhancements for Xbox One, Microsoft confirmed that DX12 was on the roadmap for the console, but "beyond that, we have nothing more to share."
> http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-directx-12-revealed-coming-to-xbox-one
> ...



Did you even read you own link? It's a tech demo using the D3D12 API on drivers that support D3D12 on D3D12-capable hardware. All Microsoft said was that it's not a full game and they have no plans to release Forza on PC.


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## jabbadap (Mar 21, 2014)

pr0n Inspector said:


> In related news,
> NVIDIA, AMD, Intel Explain How* OpenGL* Can Unlock 15x Performance Gains



Hmm, just trying to think how close is d3d12 to opengl4.4. Fermi, Kepler and Maxwell all support opengl 4.4 and there are those nvidia's own extensions which are not in the ARB yet.


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## renz496 (Mar 21, 2014)

rav said:


> Hmm.  mindless trolls every where.
> 
> What was running on nVdia silicon was a DEMO.  Not DirectX 12.  "Microsoft tells us the PC Forza demo "was simply a rendering tech demo to showcase the power and ease of development for DX12. We have no plans to release Forza Motorsport 5, or any other Microsoft Studios Xbox One title on PC." When asked about specific enhancements for Xbox One, Microsoft confirmed that DX12 was on the roadmap for the console, but "beyond that, we have nothing more to share."
> http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-directx-12-revealed-coming-to-xbox-one
> ...



just how stupid you are?


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## 64K (Mar 21, 2014)

I wonder if MS will make it only for Win 8 and up when they release it? If so that would be the thing that would get me to upgrade from Win 7. For now I'm happy with Win 7 and I still have XP on my backup rig. I just can't let go of my old friend XP but I sure as hell won't be using it for anything other than some old games that don't require logging on to the net after support has stopped from MS.


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## Deadlyraver (Mar 21, 2014)

I'm just lining up my bills to pay off before this upcoming DirectX generation happens.


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## KainXS (Mar 21, 2014)

I have been wondering that also, if they make this windows 8 only that would suck even though I already have 8 pro but have 7 installed.

I wants a feature list of 12 also though.


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## arbiter (Mar 21, 2014)

KainXS said:


> I have been wondering that also, if they make this windows 8 only that would suck even though I already have 8 pro but have 7 installed.
> 
> I wants a feature list of 12 also though.



If the release date is next year which is i guess only rumor. It could be windows 9 that its in. Some reason i doubt windows 7 sadly will get it.


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## Serpent of Darkness (Mar 21, 2014)

james888 said:


> So quick? I know mantle and DX12 have similar goals. Does mantle = Dx12?



In an sense, in context, yes.  DX12 is basically the CPU Optimization part of AMD Mantle, but there's a significant difference.

1.  AMD Mantle is  mainly a CPU Optimization addon for AMD Graphic Processing.  It's API-software used in an AMD Video Driver.  Software that is suppose to push out more frames because of the cpu bottleneck that occurs when any user is playing a PC Game, and they experience a large amount of overhead.  The boon for AMD Mantle was to redirect Frame Instructions to the other cores on the CPU.  Thus, the result would be  a higher Frame Rate Output in real time.  Instead of sending Video Instructions through one batch command (the first core mainly), Mantle was suppose to push Ram and Video Commands through other cores (batch commands) because there was a significantly lower latency, or time to process those commands.

2.  DX12 is the same thing, essentially, as AMD Mantle, but where AMD Mantle is restricted to the Video Driver for those users, DX12 is just D3D9 + D3D10 +D3D11.0 + D3D11.1 (currently full support only for AMD) + D3D11.2 (currently full support only for AMD) + D3D12.0 in the upcoming Win9 OS.  So it's apart of the API in the OS, and this is where it won't be restricted like AMD Mantle to just a video driver.  NVidia will use it because it still uses the D3D API.  Laptops, consoles, and others can use it as well.

3. This includes AMD Users because, they don't have to settle for using AMD Mantle.  AMD Mantle is a low level API that acts as a substitute for D3D in certain games.  i.e. Star Citizens, BF4, etc...  You have the choice to choose the API, set it to Mantle or D3D in the games video options.

Other things to consider:

A.  With Project Denver and Seattle coming, would it really matter if DX12 or AMD Mantle are really that significant.  Think about it.   If "Full" Maxwell and future R9-300/400 Graphic Cards (2015 generation) are coming out with CPU-like ARM cores, with the GPU on the video card's PCB, and it's main purpose is to redirect frame instructions to that CPU on the video card instead of the CPU on your motherboard, for the most part, could you honestly say that the API-software hype would really be a big boon to the industry.  Right now, yes.  In the future, it will be just another bunch of APIs that will be dwarfed by the output of the hardware.

B.  This is M$'s attempt to milk some revenue returns from both AMD and NVidia for the use of a better, improved Mantle-copycat.


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## rvalencia (Mar 22, 2014)

Serpent of Darkness said:


> Other things to consider:
> 
> A.  With Project Denver and Seattle coming, would it really matter if DX12 or AMD Mantle are really that significant.  Think about it.   If "Full" Maxwell and future R9-300/400 Graphic Cards (2015 generation) are coming out with CPU-like ARM cores, with the GPU on the video card's PCB, and it's main purpose is to redirect frame instructions to that CPU on the video card instead of the CPU on your motherboard, for the most part, could you honestly say that the API-software hype would really be a big boon to the industry.  Right now, yes.  In the future, it will be just another bunch of APIs that will be dwarfed by the output of the hardware.
> 
> B.  This is M$'s attempt to milk some revenue returns from both AMD and NVidia for the use of a better, improved Mantle-copycat.



From http://timothylottes.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/notes-on-amd-gcn-isa.html

_ "*DX and GL are years behind in API design compared to what is possible on GCN*. For instance *there is no need for the CPU to do any binding for a traditional material system with unique shaders/textures/samplers/buffers associated with geometry*. Going to the metal on GCN, it would be trivial to pass a 32-bit index from the vertex shader to the pixel shader, then use the 32-bit index and S_BUFFER_LOAD_DWORDX16 to get constants, samplers, textures, buffers, and shaders associated with the material. Do a S_SETPC to branch to the proper shader"
_
-------------------
S_SETPC instruction is from the scalar processor within each GCN's CU and shows it doesn't need an ARM CPU.





darkangel0504 said:


> What the hell ? Where is HD 5000 HD 6000 supported, AMD ? Meanwhile, Nividia will support all of DX 11 GPUs .
> I hate you, AMD. why you always drop supporting old GPUs ? I will switch to Nvidia, soon.



AMD has claimed "FULL DirectX 12 compatibility" for their current GCNs.

Source: https://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/amd-demonstrates-2014mar20.aspx
_"Full DirectX 12 compatibility promised for the award-winning Graphics Core Next architecture"_


NVIDIA has yet to claim "FULL DirectX 12 compatibility".


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## RejZoR (Mar 22, 2014)

Then again i've heard several people say OpenGL 4.4 already does that and is closer to the metal than aynthing else. Just makes you wonder why the hell no one is using it, if it's so superior + easier to port on different platforms. Apparently, it's not that great for some (other) reason...


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## xenocide (Mar 23, 2014)

RejZoR said:


> Then again i've heard several people say OpenGL 4.4 already does that and is closer to the metal than aynthing else. Just makes you wonder why the hell no one is using it, *if it's so superior + easier to port on different platforms*. Apparently, it's not that great for some (other) reason...


 
Because it's not.  Coding to the metal is never as easy as everyone claims it is, and that's why developers cried out for better hardware agnostic API's and DirectX was born.


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## Xzibit (Mar 23, 2014)

The Tech Report - DirectX 12 will also add new features for next-gen GPUs



> *Nvidia's Tony Tamasi* clarified in an interview with us today.
> DirectX 12 will indeed make lower-level abstraction available (but not mandatory—there will be backward-compatibility with DX11) on existing hardware. However, Tamasi explained that DirectX 12 will introduce a set of new features in addition to the lower-level abstraction, *and those features will require new hardware*. In his words, Microsoft "only teased" at some of those additions this week, and a "whole bunch more" are coming.



There is a noticeable difference now

DX12 = CPU overhead reduction *optional*
Mantle = CPU overhead reduction Included

In 2015-2016 we could be seeing DX12 games act no different with CPU overhead since its optional. 
Probably due to cost saving.
^Might be another distinction from those that include Mantle support.


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## Recus (Mar 23, 2014)

Xzibit said:


> games act no different with CPU overhead



Just like Mantle in 4k?


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## xenocide (Mar 24, 2014)

Xzibit said:


> There is a noticeable difference now
> 
> DX12 = CPU overhead reduction *optional*
> Mantle = CPU overhead reduction Included
> ...


 
Optimization is always _optional_.  That's why there are games that look great and run well and games that look and run like crap, and every mixture of that.  The onus is, and always has been, on the developers.  I highly doubt Mantle just magically makes low-level abstraction easy, I'm sure it makes it _easier_ but I doubt you just code like normal and magically everything is running optimal.


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## arbiter (Mar 24, 2014)

Xzibit said:


> There is a noticeable difference now
> 
> DX12 = CPU overhead reduction *optional*
> Mantle = CPU overhead reduction Included
> ...



Its Called compatibility as well, mantle only has to be good with AMD gpu's, DX has to work on intel, nvidia, amd, SiS, VIA, matrox, etc


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## Recus (Mar 24, 2014)

Nvidia’s Next Driver Will Bring Massive Performance Improvements In CPU Heavy Games
I wonder why this hasn't posted yet?


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## xenocide (Mar 25, 2014)

Recus said:


> Nvidia’s Next Driver Will Bring Massive Performance Improvements In CPU Heavy Games
> I wonder why this hasn't posted yet?


 
If the gains they claim materialize it will be very bad for Mantle.  Nvidia doing with drivers what AMD neded a full blown API to do. Doesn't exactly bode well for them.


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## Nordic (Mar 25, 2014)

Mantle comes first, DX12 comes with same performance effect, then nvidea does it with just a driver. Something doesn't sound right.


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## rvalencia (Mar 25, 2014)

Recus said:


> Nvidia’s Next Driver Will Bring Massive Performance Improvements In CPU Heavy Games
> I wonder why this hasn't posted yet?


Intel Core i7-3930K is a 6 core/12 threads CPU solution and why not with lesser Intel Core i7 quads?

Thief at 1080p/max details/SSAA/Mantle/Windows 8.1 X64/Cat 14.3 driver on my R9-290X+4770K at 4.2Ghz scored 73.2 average fps.


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## Slomo4shO (Mar 25, 2014)

jabbadap said:


> http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/



Like i said... 



> current generation graphics cards will not be able to use the new blend modes and conservative rasterization features. In order to use these features you will have to upgrade to AMD’s Radeon Rx 300 series, or NVIDIA’s second generation Maxwell architecture.


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## rvalencia (Mar 26, 2014)

Slomo4shO said:


> Like i said...


A repeat of Techreport''s article

From Techreport. http://techreport.com/news/26210/directx-12-will-also-add-new-features-for-next-gen-gpus

_"However, Tamasi explained that DirectX 12 will introduce a set of new features in addition to the lower-level abstraction, and those features will require new hardware."_

Mr Tamasi is from NVIDIA and doesn't have the authority for non-NVIDIA hardware.

Techreport's "new blend modes" and something called "conservative rasterization" refers to DirectX12's new rendering modes.

1. "Programmable blend and efficient OIT with pixel ordered UAV".

2. "Better collision and culling with Conservative Rasterization".




If you compare point 1 with http://software.intel.com/en-us/blo...ency-approximation-with-pixel-synchronization




The API is based on Intel's Pixel Sync. The main feature with this Intel API is the pixel shader *wait* function. This avoids the "link list" requirements since the pipelines are handling the pixel shader read/manage/write order.


Again, NVIDIA's Mr Tamasi DOES NOT have any authority for non-NVIDIA hardware.


For reference

DirectX11's Link List based OIT from http://www.docstoc.com/docs/106125562/Order-Independent-Transparency-Using-DirectX-11-Linked-Lists

OpenGL 4.0+'s Link List based OIT from http://blog.icare3d.org/2010/07/opengl-40-abuffer-v20-linked-lists-of.html



-----------------

From http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/amd-demonstrates-2014mar20.aspx

_"Full DirectX 12 compatibility promised for the award-winning Graphics Core Next architecture"

_
AMD claims "FULL DirectX 12 compatibility".


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## g101 (Apr 1, 2014)

rvalencia said:


> A repeat of Techreport''s article
> 
> From Techreport. http://techreport.com/news/26210/directx-12-will-also-add-new-features-for-next-gen-gpus
> 
> ...


 

Thank you, I really get tired of the completely uninformed 'enthusiast' children attempting to poke holes in concepts they cannot even begin to grasp.

Now I will be repeating and extending some of what rvalencia has already said below. Since it appears some of you have absolutely terrible reading comprehension, maybe a few different formats of the same information will finally make the facts about dx12 sink in. Funny how people that actually have some idea of the subjects they talk about tend to draw the same conclusions, isn't it?

So yeah, NVidia's fancy 'better than mantle' driver? Complete nonsense, they are using a worst case scenario for mantle (no cpu bottleneck), using FALSE metrics for both dx and mantle for the AMD hardware metrics (do your own research, kids) and also not achieving comparable minimums by their *own* admission.  Of course, they haven't included the most relevant metric (minimum fps) in their chart, they only verbally mentioned their failure to compete and their plans to 'whittle away at it'. Yeah, right. They gained less than 5 fps, a smaller gain than most dx titles see with driver-specific optimization and they couldn't even solve the stalls so commonly found with dx, even with just this *one* title.

Let's see crossfire mantle vs. sli dx 'magic driver' on that same hexacore testbed, novidia. Pretending that minimum fps isn't the most important metric is laughably transparent.


Again, NVidia will NOT be providing full dx12 support with kepler or anything before it. The fact that any of you believe what NVidia says when it comes to dx specifications (or any other API for that matter) is hilarious.

How quickly you forget NVidia 'dx 11.1* support'.

Have fun buying new hardware and also waiting until 2016 for *virtualized* 'unified memory'. Hilarious.



Little kids with zero education in semiconductors really have no business calling Charlie Demerjian 'chuckles'.


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## savage.r (Apr 4, 2014)

The only reason why microsoft brought DX12 is AMD's Mantle.

And since mantle/DX12 is mainly about multi-core CPU optimization, nvidia couldn't care less, since they just do not make any.
For same reason they still use unoptimized physX 2.8.x in ALL of their supported games.

But though nvidia always talking funny bullshit, they have brilliant marketing dept. for that, the most ridiculous in that INTEL "happily" supported DX12 too.

Intel, since it is literally the monopoly on PC market, is the last one who needs anything removing CPU overhead.
Because then AMD CPUs equal intel's from gaming performance point.
There is actual reason why intel make 4core CPUs for 7 years now, although they know the only way to keep performance gain is bring more CPU cores on.

But it is always nice to hear how many years they have been hardly working on that, wonder how long microsoft worked on low level API for their console. It is fucked up all those companies care about profit and they take PC platform for granted :/


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## pr0n Inspector (Apr 4, 2014)

GPU threads always bring out the trolls and fanboys.


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