# Radeon HD4870 X2 Readies for Release



## btarunr (Jun 30, 2008)

Following the recent launch of the ATI Radeon HD 4850 and 4870 GPUs, AMD plans to introduce the high-end dual-GPU HD 4870 X2 by the end of July, according to sources at graphics card vendors. Evaluation samples are schedule to be available in mid-July, and AMD will begin shipping reference design boards with 1GB* GDDR5 memory at the end of the month, the sources detailed. In mid-August, AMD will also begin shipping the 4870 X2 (RV770XT) GPU to partners wishing to design custom cards, the sources added. HD 4870 X2 graphics cards are expected to be priced around US$499, the sources detailed.

*unconfirmed reports suggest this card to feature a total of 2GB GDDR5 memory

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


----------



## ShadowFold (Jun 30, 2008)

Dont you mean 599$?


----------



## Megasty (Jun 30, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> Dont you mean 599$?



Why would it be $599 when ATi said they won't sell a card over $500


----------



## newtekie1 (Jun 30, 2008)

Megasty said:


> Why would it be $599 when ATi said they won't sell a card over $500



Because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to sell this card for $500 when two HD4870's would cost you $600.  They would be shooting themselves in the foot.


----------



## dark2099 (Jun 30, 2008)

$499 sounds like a great price, especially since the 3870x2 was only $350 when new (or am I wrong on that? ok I think I am wrong considering they still are over $350 new) for what could literally be twice a card a year or 2 later (forgot the actual release date of the 3870x2) only being $50 more than the launch price of the 3870x2, and around $100-150 more than a new 3870x2 is very nice.


----------



## ShadowFold (Jun 30, 2008)

Yea.. I hope its 500$, I mean that would be great but im 99% sure they would make it 600$.


----------



## newtekie1 (Jun 30, 2008)

dark2099 said:


> $499 sounds like a great price, especially since the 3870x2 was only $350 when new (or am I wrong on that?) for what could literally be twice a card a year or 2 later (forgot the actual release date of the 3870x2) only being $50 more than the launch price of the 3870x2, and around $100-150 more than a new 3870x2 is very nice.



I don't remember what the 3870x2 was at release, but I know it wasn't $350.


----------



## ShadowFold (Jun 30, 2008)

It was 450$ at launch I think


----------



## dark2099 (Jun 30, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> It was 450$ at launch I think



Yea, just did a quick google, was $450 at launch, I didn't get enough sleep last night.


----------



## MoA (Jun 30, 2008)

499$ is normal
I think it cost less to make 1 card with 2 chip than 2 card with 1 chip 

this price will make ppl want to buy it 

seems that it will be even 2x1gb of ram instead of 2x512mb ? or aim I wrong ?


----------



## ShadowFold (Jun 30, 2008)

Its 512mb x2


----------



## dark2099 (Jun 30, 2008)

newtekie1 said:


> Because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to sell this card for $500 when two HD4870's would cost you $600.  They would be shooting themselves in the foot.



Well considering how ATI dropped the prices on the 3k series of cards like 5 times in a few months, by the time the 4870x2 hits the market  I would imagine they would drop the price on the other cards (at least the 4850) a tad.


----------



## vega22 (Jun 30, 2008)

looks nice on a black pcb


----------



## MoA (Jun 30, 2008)

> ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 核心代號為 R700 ，採用了兩顆 RV770XT 繪圖核心，公版 PCB 代號 Spartan 、編號為 B509 ，核心時脈尚未定，內建 16 顆 32M x 32 GDDR5 記憶體顆粒，合共 512 Bit 、 2GB (256Bit 、 1GB x 2) ，定價僅 $499 美元， AMD 向 VGA 業者透露， Radeon HD  4870 X2 將可輕易壓倒 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 280 。



something about: "2GB (256Bit 、 1GB x 2)" lol

maybe its a 2GB version


----------



## FatForester (Jun 30, 2008)

All I've heard is it being $500 bucks, and if they were wanting to really put the hurt on nVidia that would be a much better price standpoint than $600 bucks. Choosing between $600 and $500, it's pretty much a no-brainer what people (that aren't die hards) are going to end up getting.


----------



## Megasty (Jun 30, 2008)

newtekie1 said:


> Because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to sell this card for $500 when two HD4870's would cost you $600.  They would be shooting themselves in the foot.



Well that's ATI being ATI. I'm not going to complain if they want to sell that card for so low  I only care about what comes out of my pocket. That's why I can't buy into all this 4870x2 vs GTX280 bs. Its a done deal.


----------



## trt740 (Jun 30, 2008)

Megasty said:


> Well that's ATI being ATI. I'm not going to complain if they want to sell that card for so low  I only care about what comes out of my pocket. That's why I can't buy into all this 4870x2 vs GTX280 bs. Its a done deal.



500.00 gees. I cannot get that one for sure 400.00 is my max and thats pushing it.


----------



## btarunr (Jun 30, 2008)

That's US $499.


----------



## trt740 (Jun 30, 2008)

trt740 said:


> 500.00 gees. I cannot get that one for sure 400.00 is my max and thats pushing it.



I smell a 260x2 or 280x2 coming mark my word it is gonna be made, as soon as geforce shrinks the Die. They just cannot allow AMD the lead and this 4870x2 card will smash the 280. The other thing you might see is 260 and 280 cards using DDr 4 or 5 ram. The are already running around trying to retool their gpu presses. Nice to see AMD shaking them up.


----------



## farlex85 (Jun 30, 2008)

newtekie1 said:


> Because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to sell this card for $500 when two HD4870's would cost you $600.  They would be shooting themselves in the foot.



It doesn't really make a lot of sense to release a dual card at more than the price of the 2 that make it up. Nvidia released the gx2 at like 2.5x the price of the gts 512, and that was ridiculous. 3870x2 was released at about $50 less than 2 3870s, which is right where it should be. I would imagine this comes in a $549, but if it is $499 that's all the better. Ati is actually making it practical to spend so much money on a video card (as practical as it can be) instead of simply throwing out a high end card and making it elitist. And I bet their sales benefit from it.


----------



## farlex85 (Jun 30, 2008)

trt740 said:


> I smell a 260x2 or 280x2 coming mark my word it is gonna be made, as soon as geforce shrinks the Die. They just cannot allow AMD the lead and this 4870x2 card will smash the 280. The other thing you might see is 260 and 280 cards using DDr 4 or 5 ram. The are already running around trying to retool there gpu presses. Nice to see AMD shaking them up.



The way nvidia is pricing their stuff though, you gotta think a gtx 280x2 would be around $1400, and a gtx 260x2 would be in the vicinity of $900. Even knock off a few hundred for cheaper production w/ the die shrink, and that's still not gonna cut it. I think they're gonna have to make up for it in mid-range w/ some gts/gt's.


----------



## Kreij (Jun 30, 2008)

If the 4870x2 comes in at $500 there is a good chance that the 4870s will drop by about $50.
Maybe more.


----------



## trt740 (Jun 30, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> The way nvidia is pricing their stuff though, you gotta think a gtx 280x2 would be around $1400, and a gtx 260x2 would be in the vicinity of $900. Even knock off a few hundred for cheaper production w/ the die shrink, and that's still not gonna cut it. I think they're gonna have to make up for it in mid-range w/ some gts/gt's.



watch and see and prices will drop. Thats good for us, the boys at geforce are not in great shape with the 790I flop. However, it does seem they have fixed that.


----------



## Morgoth (Jun 30, 2008)

yea 499 us dollars  thats like 370 euro


----------



## X-TeNDeR (Jun 30, 2008)

Wow.. i've actually hit the sweet spot, estimating that this card will cost between 450-550$ 

At this price point, with the expected 4850+4870 price drop when this card is out, the round is closed imo 

Congrats AMD-ATi.


----------



## trt740 (Jun 30, 2008)

Morgoth said:


> yea 499 us dollars  thats like 370 euro



still not a cheaper price really , because the cost of living is alot lower here in the USA.


----------



## Morgoth (Jun 30, 2008)

yes but i'm planning to buy it end 2008 with bloomfield so the price sould be droped


----------



## DarthJedi (Jun 30, 2008)

Morgoth said:


> yes but i'm planning to buy it end 2008 with bloomfield so the price sould be droped



Isn't it better than to buy GTX280 instead of Crossfire which has its issues.


----------



## farlex85 (Jun 30, 2008)

naxeem said:


> Isn't it better than to buy GTX280 instead of Crossfire which has its issues.



Crossfire doesn't have many issues, and supposedly this card is alliviating the one's it had w/ a new bridge. So no, imo the cheaper better performing one makes more sense.


----------



## newtekie1 (Jun 30, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> It doesn't really make a lot of sense to release a dual card at more than the price of the 2 that make it up. Nvidia released the gx2 at like 2.5x the price of the gts 512, and that was ridiculous. 3870x2 was released at about $50 less than 2 3870s, which is right where it should be. I would imagine this comes in a $549, but if it is $499 that's all the better. Ati is actually making it practical to spend so much money on a video card (as practical as it can be) instead of simply throwing out a high end card and making it elitist. And I bet their sales benefit from it.



9800GX2 Price at Launch: $600
8800GTS(G92) Price when 9800GX2 launched: $290
HD3870X2 Price at Launch: $450
HD3870 Price when HD3870X2 launched: $210

You statement is complete BS, get your facts straight.

$600 is not even close to 2.5x $290.  It is actually not even 2.1x, it is 2.07x.
$450 is more than 2.1x $210, it is actually 2.14x AND the HD3870x2 wasn't truely two HD3870s, it used GDDR3 memory instead of the GDDR4 memory found on standard HD3870s.  The 9800GX2 on the other hand was truly two 8800GTS cards.

I'll believe te $499 price tag when I see it.  But for right now, I don't believe it one bit.  ATi isn't going to release a card that is essentially two lower end cards combined for less than the price of two lower end cards, it doesn't make sense business wise unless they are going to stip it down.  Although competition does some pretty strange things to the market, so I'm not saying the price is impossible, just unlikely IMO.  Especially with ATi's past history of overpricing cards.


----------



## farlex85 (Jun 30, 2008)

newtekie1 said:


> 9800GX2 Price at Launch: $600
> 8800GTS(G92) Price when 9800GX2 launched: $290
> HD3870X2 Price at Launch: $450
> HD3870 Price when HD3870X2 launched: $210
> ...



I'm pretty sure your numbers are actually off there as well. I don't remember exactly, so my numbers were off a tad for sure, but I do remember the gx2 came in priced considerably higher than 2 gts's and the 3870x2 came in about $50 under the price of 2 3870s, given differences in brands. And yes, it did use gddr3 instead of gddr4, which supposedly made very little difference. Perhaps my memory is inaccurate, but recently ati has been pricing very competitively to outdo nvidia, and it seems to be moving in the right direction. I think $499 seems a little low too, but I think it's a good business strategy to attract more people to the high end that normally wouldn't spend that much for a video card.


----------



## Morgoth (Jun 30, 2008)

naxeem said:


> Isn't it better than to buy GTX280 instead of Crossfire which has its issues.



no cus x58 doest support sli


----------



## chron (Jun 30, 2008)

eym getteeng wun


----------



## Morgoth (Jun 30, 2008)

englishka plz ? ok da


----------



## freaksavior (Jun 30, 2008)

Sweet! finally some info is coming out on it. i just need to know power requirements.


----------



## ShadowFold (Jun 30, 2008)

freaksavior said:


> Sweet! finally some info is coming out on it. i just need to know power requirements.



Probably will want a 500w or higher since its got 6 + 6+2 pins on the PCB.


----------



## freaksavior (Jun 30, 2008)

i have a silvertone da 800 but i want to do dual 4870 x2


----------



## DarthJedi (Jun 30, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> Crossfire doesn't have many issues, and supposedly this card is alliviating the one's it had w/ a new bridge. So no, imo the cheaper better performing one makes more sense.



Crossfire itself has a few nasty issues. I am the owner of 3870x2 and if you don't have a game profile in drivers, you're screwed.
Waiting for next drivers is hell.

Example: Conan: 8.5, 8.6 both got out after the game, and I still must turn off my Catalyst A.I. to turn Crossfire off so I don't get epilepsy from flashing icons which is a CF bug.


----------



## ShadowFold (Jun 30, 2008)

freaksavior said:


> i have a silvertone da 800 but i want to do dual 4870 x2



Just take the TDP of the 4870 take that X2 and maybe add 20-70w for the PLX thing or w/e's in the middle.


----------



## freaksavior (Jun 30, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> Just take the TDP of the 4870 take that X2 and maybe add 20-70w for the PLX thing or w/e's in the middle.



Then i wont have enough power. the 4870 cf draws about 450w from what i believe i have read. so that times 2 plus another 150w = 1050w? . SO that means  leaving me roughly -250w for the rest of my system.



> Intel Test Platform
> 
> Component
> Brand/Model
> ...









you people are talking about the 3870 x2 it used a internal corrsifre bridge to communicate with the chips. The 4870 x2 does not use a crossfire bridge it's a different method. From what i understand of it it's more like the fsb on intel


----------



## farlex85 (Jun 30, 2008)

naxeem said:


> Crossfire itself has a few nasty issues. I am the owner of 3870x2 and if you don't have a game profile in drivers, you're screwed.
> Waiting for next drivers is hell.
> 
> Example: Conan: 8.5, 8.6 both got out after the game, and I still must turn off my Catalyst A.I. to turn Crossfire off so I don't get epilepsy from flashing icons which is a CF bug.



Hmm, well I guess we'll have to see. Supposedly this card works differently than the previous ones, how exactly I don't know. It would take some pretty big issues to make the gtx 280 a better deal imo.


----------



## ShadowFold (Jun 30, 2008)

Dude your fine.. 472w is for the whole system not the cards.


----------



## DarthJedi (Jun 30, 2008)

freaksavior said:


> you people are talking about the 3870 x2 it used a internal corrsifre bridge to communicate with the chips. The 4870 x2 does not use a crossfire bridge it's a different method. From what i understand of it it's more like the fsb on intel



Unfortunatelly, according to this:

http://www.techpowerup.com/64318/ATI_Radeon_HD_4870_X2_1GB_GDDR5_Nude_Shots.html

4870x2 will use PLX 2.0 on it's board, so no, no internal bus instead of CF chip. ((


----------



## freaksavior (Jun 30, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> Dude your fine.. 472w is for the whole system not the cards.



OHHH!!!!  ok. 

So then the 4870 x2 probably uses about 300w.?


----------



## mdm-adph (Jun 30, 2008)

newtekie1 said:


> I'll believe te $499 price tag when I see it.  But for right now, I don't believe it one bit.  ATi isn't going to release a card that is essentially two lower end cards combined for less than the price of two lower end cards, it doesn't make sense business wise unless they are going to stip it down.  Although competition does some pretty strange things to the market, so I'm not saying the price is impossible, just unlikely IMO.  Especially with ATi's past history of overpricing cards.



Maybe you're right, but I so wanna see you eat crow over this.  

As some people have said, perhaps it's cheaper to put two R700's with GDDR5 on the same card, thus a $500 price for the 4870X2 even though two 4870's cost $600.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Jun 30, 2008)

newtekie1 said:


> Because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to sell this card for $500 when two HD4870's would cost you $600.  They would be shooting themselves in the foot.



think of it as buying in bulk!


----------



## newtekie1 (Jun 30, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> I'm pretty sure your numbers are actually off there as well. I don't remember exactly, so my numbers were off a tad for sure, but I do remember the gx2 came in priced considerably higher than 2 gts's and the 3870x2 came in about $50 under the price of 2 3870s, given differences in brands. And yes, it did use gddr3 instead of gddr4, which supposedly made very little difference. Perhaps my memory is inaccurate, but recently ati has been pricing very competitively to outdo nvidia, and it seems to be moving in the right direction. I think $499 seems a little low too, but I think it's a good business strategy to attract more people to the high end that normally wouldn't spend that much for a video card.



http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_9800_GX2/

My numbers were taken from there, there is no mistakes.  All the MSRPs of all 4 cards at the time of the 9800GX2's release are listed there.  When the 3870x2 was announced the 3870 was $269, but by the time the 3870x2 actually hit the streets and was available to purchase the HD3870 had dropped to $210 due to pressure from the release of the 9600GT.  There might have been a very brief couple of days where the HD3870x2 was cheaper than two HD3870s on paper, but it didn't last and the supply of HD3870x2s hadn't actually hit the market yet.



Easy Rhino said:


> think of it as buying in bulk!



I wish my Sam's Club card got me discounts on computer hardware.


----------



## newconroer (Jun 30, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> Its 512mb x2



Bingo!

And it's a dual gpu issue again.

I'd still pay the extra for the 280.


Ati is only hurting themselves by selling this, especially at a lower price.

Consider, before, with the 3800 series, they needed the X2, to have SOME standing vs the GX2 (even though the X2 lost the lower minimum frame rate battle to the 9800GTX in some situations). 
Now, with the 4850/70, they're using the X2 to trump the 280, which is a bad move, as it takes away attention from the 4870, which is where they really can make money, if they spin that age old price / performance cliche.

As soon as that X2 drops, be on the lookout for Nvidia to top it. All the prices will fall, the 280 will still beat the 4870, the new GX2 will beat the X2 and we'll be right back where we started last year.


----------



## freaksavior (Jun 30, 2008)

newconroer said:


> Bingo!
> 
> And it's a dual gpu issue again.
> 
> ...



elaborate


----------



## vojc (Jun 30, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> Dont you mean 599$?



ATI is not Nvidia, they put 2GPU on ONE PCB (nvidia use 2PCBs for 2GPUs), so it is cheaper
to produce

.......and abaut dual GPU...well no one complain on Intel quad core (2 dual core sticked as one) AMD has a real quad (monolitic)
and than again ...no one does give a shit abaut it, as long as u are intel fan and as long as intel is faster than AMD.
When we come to the graphics, well same story here, just diffrent actors (nvidia=AMD, while AMD/ATI=Intel)


----------



## farlex85 (Jun 30, 2008)

newtekie1 said:


> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_9800_GX2/
> 
> My numbers were taken from there, there is no mistakes.  All the MSRPs of all 4 cards at the time of the 9800GX2's release are listed there.  When the 3870x2 was announced the 3870 was $269, but by the time the 3870x2 actually hit the streets and was available to purchase the HD3870 had dropped to $210 due to pressure from the release of the 9600GT.  There might have been a very brief couple of days where the HD3870x2 was cheaper than two HD3870s on paper, but it didn't last and the supply of HD3870x2s hadn't actually hit the market yet.
> 
> ...



I guess my memory failed me then, it wouldn't be the first time.  Still, I think it's a better strategy to charge a little less for a dual card than 2 cards. It is technically cheaper than producing two seperate cards, and it is kind of like Rhino said, buy in bulk get a discount. Lord knows if I for some strange reason ever decide to spend that much on a card, it better have some kind of comparative value.


----------



## candle_86 (Jun 30, 2008)

dark2099 said:


> Well considering how ATI dropped the prices on the 3k series of cards like 5 times in a few months, by the time the 4870x2 hits the market  I would imagine they would drop the price on the other cards (at least the 4850) a tad.



why right now they have zero competion at there price bracket AMD is a company and if there card sells like hot cakes and there is no reason to drop prices they won't

I await the Nvidia response which knowing Nvidia will be epic


----------



## vojc (Jun 30, 2008)

freaksavior said:


> OHHH!!!!  ok.
> 
> So then the 4870 x2 probably uses about 300w.?



250W-270W only


----------



## farlex85 (Jun 30, 2008)

newconroer said:


> Bingo!
> 
> And it's a dual gpu issue again.
> 
> ...



It doesn't take attention away from the 4870, they are in completely different price brackets. The 4870x2 is made to compete w/ the gtx 280, the 4870 is made to compete w/ the gtx 260/gx2. At least that's the closest you could come. However, ignore price, the 4870>gtx 260 and 4870x2>gtx 280. Then, if you put price in there, there really isn't any competition except for foolish purchases. Price/performance is not a cliche, it is capitalism and what every good product excels in.

And I'll be waiting for that gx2. How they could possibly fit 2 gt200s on one pcb or two gtx 280s together and make it work would be a true feat. 2gb of vram? I don't see it happening anytime soon.


----------



## X-TeNDeR (Jun 30, 2008)

As stated here earlier, the problem with a 280GX2 is it would be too damn expensive! as much as nvidia hate to realize this, this is the deal with huge, monolithic GPUs. and after seeing the sticker on the GTX280... i dare you to look at the potential price of the 280GX2 and not cry your wallets to sleep


----------



## Megasty (Jun 30, 2008)

X-TeNDeR said:


> As stated here earlier, the problem with a 280GX2 is it would be too damn expensive! as much as nvidia hate to realize this, this is the deal with huge, monolithic GPUs. and after seeing the sticker on the GTX280... i dare you to look at the potential price of the 280GX2 and not cry your wallets to sleep



We all know that money is no object for NV  I would love to see a $1200 BSing monster so I can ROTFLMAO at the fools that buy it then brag about it 

On the other hand, ATi comes out & blatantly say that they weren't going release a card over $500. That takes some guts, hopefully they're not puking them up now


----------



## mab1376 (Jun 30, 2008)

for the first time in a long time i think im going to go with this the 4870x2 instead of the GTX 280.


----------



## MoA (Jun 30, 2008)

yeah I quit nvidia too


----------



## newtekie1 (Jun 30, 2008)

X-TeNDeR said:


> As stated here earlier, the problem with a 280GX2 is it would be too damn expensive! as much as nvidia hate to realize this, this is the deal with huge, monolithic GPUs. and after seeing the sticker on the GTX280... i dare you to look at the potential price of the 280GX2 and not cry your wallets to sleep



The GT200 cards won't be around long, nVidia screwed up on those, and they know it.  They simply are not marketable.  Which is why they are pushing extremely hard to transition to 55nm.  A 55nm GT200 card will be much cheaper to manufacture, however they also aren't dropping their G92, which is also switching to 55nm.

I doubt there will be a dual GT200 card until the switch to 55nm.


----------



## imperialreign (Jun 30, 2008)

newtekie1 said:


> Because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to sell this card for $500 when two HD4870's would cost you $600.  They would be shooting themselves in the foot.



if they follow similar pricing to how the 3000 series went, the price of the 4870 will drop right before or the day of the 4870x2 release, and the price of the 4850 should drop further as well.


I don't think the release of the 4870x2 will hurt them at all - keep in mind also that the 70x2 will be a dual-slot card, whereas with two 4870s you'd have to give up 4 slots total.

If performance difference is similar to the 3870x2 vs Crossfired 3870s, the 4870x2 should perform quite a bit better than Crossfired 4870s.

We'll have to wait the rest of the month and see for sure, though


----------



## Nkd (Jun 30, 2008)

Did you guys read one of the hd 4870 review articles, I Believe it was anandtech.com, they made a rough estimate of how big the die would be if nvidia shrunk the die to 55nm, it would still be way larger than hd 4870, because the chip is too damn big period, the yields won't increase all that much either, but none the less they should help nvidia a little. For GT200 series to be effective nvidia would have to shrink them to 45nm, it is same as ATI, they shrunk the hd 2900 from 80nm straight to 55nm but it took them a while to do so. So even at 55nm would not be that much effective as we all think, the yield rate for nvidia are 40% for the gt200 series and after reading around the net 55nm would increase it to may be 50-60%, so 4 dead chips for every 10 they make. Nvidia would have to refine the architecture to make it smaller, may be dump the 512bit bus and go with gddr5 because the bandwidth is more than enough for even future games to come.

 I have had nvidia parts for the last two years, I love no company but my wallet, trust me it is causting nvidia loads of money to make those cards, they would have to sell them at a loss to stay competitive. But I have already purchased an hd 4870 and I am pretty damn happy.


----------



## WarEagleAU (Jun 30, 2008)

Pretty phenomenal to be honest. And no, the 4870x2 isnt cheaper than two inferior cards. Hell, the 4870 is an awesome card, dont know why you call them inferior. Some people cant afford to buy 2 cards out right. Hell some cant even get the 4870x2, however they can get one 4850/4870. It makes sense really and I love the price point.


----------



## MatTheCat (Jul 1, 2008)

naxeem said:


> Unfortunatelly, according to this:
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/64318/ATI_Radeon_HD_4870_X2_1GB_GDDR5_Nude_Shots.html
> 
> 4870x2 will use PLX 2.0 on it's board, so no, no internal bus instead of CF chip. ((



Does this mean that the 4870X2 is going to have the same microstutter problems that reportedly plagued the s3870X2 and nvidias SLI set-ups?

I think high benchmark scores are pretty meaningless if the subjective quality is not there....If microstutter is an issue, perhaps the single GPU 280 GTX solution is the best option for gamers who want some high end action.....especially when Nvidea drops the price in response to the 4870X2's release later this month.


----------



## brian.ca (Jul 2, 2008)

MatTheCat said:


> Does this mean that the 4870X2 is going to have the same microstutter problems that reportedly plagued the s3870X2 and nvidias SLI set-ups?
> 
> I think high benchmark scores are pretty meaningless if the subjective quality is not there....If microstutter is an issue, perhaps the single GPU 280 GTX solution is the best option for gamers who want some high end action.....especially when Nvidea drops the price in response to the 4870X2's release later this month.



I'm not particularly knowledgeable about this stuff so I'll just quote someone else (Immortalz from VR-zone).   The same sorta thing happened over there and ImmortalZ and a few others explained in this thread



> They NEED the bridge chip, side port or not. How else are you going to split the x16 into 2 x8s for each chip? The so called bridge chip is actually a PCI Express Switch - it handles two devices on a single x16 port - or in other words, splits the x16 into 2 x8s.
> 
> You simply can't split an imaginary 16 pins into 2 groups of 8 and be done with it. Also, the bridge chip on this iteration looks much smaller than the one used in the 3870X2 and since the part no.s are edited out, we don't know what has changed.
> 
> It might be that the PLX no longer handles inter-chip communication - just 2 chips -> motherboard. The Crossfire sideport or memory sharing might be happening - we just can't tell.


----------



## Hayder_Master (Jul 2, 2008)

always price is first thing in chose, cuz  most people always upgrade them rig, so if you take a 4870x2 and it run every game release in year or more use very high setting , that will be best chose


----------



## kid41212003 (Jul 2, 2008)

Above everything, prices are meaningless.
Prices don't tell the performence, and this is a plain fact.
No matter is it Intel or Nvidia, their top-line product always have insanely prices. 
Beside, I don't think those GTX200 series even pass 5% of their production levels. Top-end cards are for shows.
The company who has the crown will decide the prices of it. And who is below have to follow it.
ATI is following NVIDIA's tail atm, if 4870X2 really over-perform GTX280, they should price it equal or less than abit.
No, they are not doing so to get back or attract more customers, because there is no way a 500USD vid card can attract customers. No matter how good it perform.
It makes people think when the price is way lower.

Sorry for my bad English.


----------



## Megasty (Jul 2, 2008)

kid41212003 said:


> Above everything, prices are meaningless.
> Prices don't tell the performence, and this is a plain fact.
> No matter is it Intel or Nvidia, their top-line product always have insanely prices.
> Beside, I don't think those GTX200 series even pass 5% of their production levels. Top-end cards are for shows.
> ...



By your own words you've given a pretty good idea of what these graphics cards are. They are for a very niche' market. The GTX280 & 4870x2 were not meant to attract regular customers. The average person cannot afford cards of this level. But the people that can would usually be able to buy more one of them. These cards are overkill at the purest level. Even the GTX260 enters this level at its price point. 

The more feasible cards out there are the 9800GTX/+, 4850, & 4870. Even if price is meaningless, which is never the case, then you should look at performance. People that buy these cards are not idiots. They will usually peer into the reviews before buying the cards. Its obvious that the 4870x2 will be faster than the GTX280. Also ATi can price it how they see fit. They are not obligated to follow NV high price complex. Therefore, when you look at the 2 cards themselves its not hard to make a logical descision about which one you'll buy unless you're just a fanboi that just want to stick with one camp. That's fine too but those people tend to override logic no matter what the case.


----------



## kid41212003 (Jul 2, 2008)

I don't think I did read a review that show facts that the 4870X2 out-performed the GTX280 yet, and myself, didn't say anything about the GTX280 better than 4870X2.
I'm putting the prices into considerations.
1. Prices can't tell the performence with *top-line products*.
2. Someone in this thread said 4870X2 gonna be between 400-500USD.
3. 400-500USD is not a way to inrease sale.
4. Some people said its out-performed the GTX280 at the price 600USD.

Again, top-line products are for shows, it's not main-stream products.
Unknow A guy: Wow, this VGA cost 600USD! It must be the best!
That was a simpliest marketing.

4870X2 is not main-stream product, and it's not going to have a price atleast equal as GTX280, to show it somehow comparable. 

I'm saying all these things according to the prices that people posted in this thread. And this is just a theory.
Argree or Disargee, I don't really care, Im just trying to show you what I wanted to say. And if's my English is not understandable, I'm really sorry.


----------



## btarunr (Jul 2, 2008)

AMD has already made statements such as "The R700 will overwhelm GeForce GTX 280". Also, this product is to have a launch price of $499.


----------



## Megasty (Jul 2, 2008)

kid41212003 said:


> I don't think I did read a review that show facts that the 4870X2 out-performed the GTX280 yet, and myself, didn't say anything about the GTX280 better than 4870X2.
> I'm putting the prices into considerations.
> 1. Prices can't tell the performence with *top-line products*.
> 2. Someone in this thread said 4870X2 gonna be between 400-500USD.
> ...



They are only for show for the folks that will NOT buy them. The people that buy them are definitely not buying them just to let them sit pretty in their rigs  As bta said these statements are not debatable or theory. AMD already came out & said that it will be faster than the GTX280 plus only cost $499. 

The term flagship comes to mind. Flagship is the best in the series while mainstream is what most will either buy or consider purchasing. I know four ppl personally that have atleast one GTX280. They didn't buy them. They got them as reviewer samples. I also know 3 ppl who were interested in the thing. As soon as I introduced them to this forum they lost that interest completely. Only idiots base purchases solely on price. If you don't buy for quality, you'll end up spending twice as much. However, if you only buy the mopst expensive all the time w/o researching first then you're liable to be had 9 times out of 10.

AMD doesn't plan to make a living off the 4870x2. If I get 2 of them, I'll be in the 0.5% of their comsumers that do. The 4870 & 4850 are cards that most enthusiasts will consider while the fabled 46xx & 44xx are in the lower end that casual ppl will consider. All these cards are or will be priced lower than NV counterparts, thusly making NV lower their prices to follow suit. Its called business or _competition_. NV's relatively high prices only cause problems for ppl who fall in the trap of buying things when they first hit the selves. ATi buyers don't have to worry about such things cause they know that will always get their money's worth.


----------



## brian.ca (Jul 2, 2008)

Even putting aside AMD claims the 4870X2 will kill the 280 I'm pretty sure most reviews that included multi gpu setups in their 4870/4850 review had the lower end 4850 in crossfire often trumping the 280.   The 4870 CF in some even trumping 280 sli.   So it's not unreasonable at all to think that the 4870x2 will be quite powerful, especially if ATI pulls off the rumoured 15%ish gain in performance via an internal method of communication between the two gpu chips that some sites talked about.


----------



## Hayder_Master (Jul 3, 2008)

kid41212003 said:


> Above everything, prices are meaningless.
> Prices don't tell the performence, and this is a plain fact.
> No matter is it Intel or Nvidia, their top-line product always have insanely prices.
> Beside, I don't think those GTX200 series even pass 5% of their production levels. Top-end cards are for shows.
> ...





You can buy a Ferrari car at speeds of 260 kilometers at a price of 300 thousand dollars and you can also buy a car at speeds of 260 Marsides  at a price of $ 70 thousand, and that both have the same model


----------



## mab1376 (Jul 3, 2008)

brian.ca said:


> Even putting aside AMD claims the 4870X2 will kill the 280 I'm pretty sure most reviews that included multi gpu setups in their 4870/4850 review had the lower end 4850 in crossfire often trumping the 280.   The 4870 CF in some even trumping 280 sli.   So it's not unreasonable at all to think that the 4870x2 will be quite powerful, especially if ATI pulls off the rumoured 15%ish gain in performance via an internal method of communication between the two gpu chips that some sites talked about.



they're saying its gonna be about $500 or so, that's still $200 cheaper for the same performance or better, worth it in my opinion.

I'm buying a HD4870x2 for myself when its released, and I'm upgrading my girlfriends 7900GT to a HD4850.

I'll probably end up selling my eVGA ACS3 8800GTS (G80), what do you think a reasonable price is $200-250?


----------



## btarunr (Jul 3, 2008)

Added more clarity to the first post. 

That "2GB GDDR5" is not a typo. Multiple sources point to the same thing.


----------



## Megasty (Jul 3, 2008)

btarunr said:


> Added more clarity to the first post.
> 
> That *"2GB GDDR5"* is not a typo. Multiple sources point to the same thing.



Are they sick  I'm not complaining or anything but if I buy my fill of them this time, I would really feel like I'm stealing  

$499, come on ATi you're still are billions in debt or maybe you're use to it by now


----------



## worldofgraphics (Jul 5, 2008)

*your are very correct*



farlex85 said:


> It doesn't take attention away from the 4870, they are in completely different price brackets. The 4870x2 is made to compete w/ the gtx 280, the 4870 is made to compete w/ the gtx 260/gx2. At least that's the closest you could come. However, ignore price, the 4870>gtx 260 and 4870x2>gtx 280. Then, if you put price in there, there really isn't any competition except for foolish purchases. Price/performance is not a cliche, it is capitalism and what every good product excels in.
> 
> And I'll be waiting for that gx2. How they could possibly fit 2 gt200s on one pcb or two gtx 280s together and make it work would be a true feat. 2gb of vram? I don't see it happening anytime soon.



very good point there!


----------



## btarunr (Jul 6, 2008)

Some reports suggest this card features a total of 2 GB GDDR5 memory. Maybe AMD wasn't 'MAD' in saying this card will overwhelm the GTX 280.


----------



## Haz197 (Jul 9, 2008)

Its great to see some competition again  ...... even better that ATI might just be kikin ass again too !! Got my £500 in the bank, just hope someone gets stock of these 2gb monstaz this month.


----------



## mab1376 (Jul 9, 2008)

i just can't believe there will be PhysX support for the cards...


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Jul 9, 2008)

btarunr said:


> Some reports suggest this card features a total of 2 GB GDDR5 memory. Maybe AMD wasn't 'MAD' in saying this card will overwhelm the GTX 280.



2GB seems a bit overkill for all the games out right now.  Maybe when Alan Wake comes out it won't be, but I would rather have a card with 1GB and faster clocks than 2GB ATM.


----------



## btarunr (Jul 9, 2008)

You're forgetting, 2GB = 2x 1GB, in other words, the total graphics memory effectively is 1GB. How? Textures, shader, mesh, and other data are mirrored across both memory arrays. So the GPUs could do AFR (alternate frame rendering). To render alternate frames or even tile, both GPUs need to be served with the same data. So, if you think 1GB for HD4870 is ok, 2GB HD4870 X2 isn't really overkill. The RV770 can make use of 1GB, unlike MSI coming up with a 2GB GeForce 9600 GT.


----------



## mab1376 (Jul 9, 2008)

yeah its probably gonna be 2 pcb's attached via some special internal crossfire interface, so the clocks will still be that superfast GDDR5


----------



## Megasty (Jul 9, 2008)

mab1376 said:


> yeah its probably gonna be 2 pcb's attached via some special internal crossfire interface, so the clocks will still be that superfast GDDR5



We already know the design will still be the 2 GPUs on one pcb. If it is 2GB of memory, it'll just use 1 gbit memory chips instead of 512 mbit.


----------



## alexp999 (Jul 9, 2008)

Haz197 said:


> Its great to see some competition again  ...... even better that ATI might just be kikin ass again too !! Got my £500 in the bank, just hope someone gets stock of these 2gb monstaz this month.



£500  . I hope its not that much. It should be about £300 here in the UK based on $500 + VAT. If I can get it for that  . Cant wait.

I wonder when retailers will start taking pre-orders?


----------



## wiak (Jul 10, 2008)

199 = 4850
299 = 4870
399 = 4850 X2
499 = 4870 X2

i asume


----------



## Haz197 (Jul 10, 2008)

alexp999 said:


> £500  . I hope its not that much. It should be about £300 here in the UK based on $500 + VAT. If I can get it for that  . Cant wait.
> 
> I wonder when retailers will start taking pre-orders?



hehehe, yeah, probably overkill on the cash like, but, I'm sure I can find something else to spend the rest on ...... nice new x48 cf board for me !!

Let's just hope those pre-orders come sooner rather than l8r !!


----------



## techguy14 (Aug 6, 2008)

guys the card will 2 gb and amd owns ati you guys should know that allready


----------

