# Anyone here delid an i7-4790K?



## Sasqui (Mar 21, 2016)

I de-lidded my i5-3750k with incredible results.  I've only been running my i7-4790k at stock so far, and honestly haven't even paid attention to temps!

So I'm curious if it's worth it... anyone here with experience delidding the 4790k?


----------



## EarthDog (Mar 21, 2016)

There is plenty of people that do/did it... Results, just like the 3750K, vary.

There isn't a point in delidding unless you are temperature limited and not voltage limited.


----------



## Sasqui (Mar 21, 2016)

EarthDog said:


> There is plenty of people that do/did it... Results, just like the 3750K, vary.
> 
> There isn't a point in delidding unless you are temperature limited and not voltage limited.



I've seen a few threads with results of delidding the G3258 and 4770k, but can't find any before/after on the 4790k.  With the 4.4 Turbo, I'm almost fine not overclocking.  Wait, did I just say that???


----------



## EarthDog (Mar 21, 2016)

I have no idea, if temps are in order and you are happy, why you would risk it and void your warranty....


----------



## Sasqui (Mar 21, 2016)

EarthDog said:


> I have no idea, if temps are in order and you are happy, why you would risk it and void your warranty....



Because I can.



> I do it because I can.
> I can because I want to,
> I want to because you said I couldn't



Honestly, I haven't even tried to overclock the chip yet... and after the 3750k experience I'm looking for some empirical results with a 4790k.


----------



## EarthDog (Mar 21, 2016)

LOLOLOL... never said you couldn't, just that you SHOULDN'T. 

Have you tried googling, "delid 4790K" and search for results (until someone here chimes in, there is something for you to dig into..)?
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=delid 4790k results


----------



## BarbaricSoul (Mar 21, 2016)

Ok, you've had over an hour to check your current temps. What are they?

If your temps are already good at 4.4 GHz, I wouldn't bother. At most, OC'ing will give you another 500MHz, if your lucky. Temps on a 24/7 safe 4.8-4.9 OC won't be but so different than 4.4

edit: Feel I need to add I am a believer in doing something just because "you can". But like I said, temps on a *24/7 safe OC* shouldn't be that different between 4.4 and 4.9 GHz. 4.4 GHz is going to be on the warm side as it is.


----------



## Sasqui (Mar 21, 2016)

EarthDog said:


> LOLOLOL... never said you couldn't, just that you SHOULDN'T.
> 
> Have you tried googling, "delid 4790K" and search for results (until someone here chimes in, there is something for you to dig into..)?
> https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=delid 4790k results



Good choice of keywords, first hit is a goldmine 

http://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=94365.

10c drop delidded.  Stable at 4.9 with med-high voltages.  That's huge.

After I finish a few other other projects, I'll be playing


----------



## Sasqui (Mar 21, 2016)

BarbaricSoul said:


> Ok, you've had over an hour to check your current temps. What are they?
> 
> If your temps are already good at 4.4 GHz, I wouldn't bother. At most, OC'ing will give you another 500MHz, if your lucky. Temps on a 24/7 safe 4.8-4.9 OC won't be but so different than 4.4



Mainly Crunching... more PPD.  Otherwise, I agree, the chip is a beast on it's own.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (Mar 21, 2016)

check my edit @Sasqui


----------



## Sasqui (Mar 21, 2016)

BarbaricSoul said:


> check my edit @Sasqui



Yes, I'm getting ahead of myself... I don't even have a baseline.  Question was more out of curiosity after stumbling on a thread about delidding a G3258.  I just swapped/sold and unmodified G3258 (quite happy at 4.5) with the 4790k


----------



## Folterknecht (Mar 21, 2016)

http://www.hardwareluxx.de/communit...ngen-ohne-hs-mit-gewechseltem-tim-891243.html

320 sites of deliding discussion and results (screen shots) incl. Ivy, Haswel and Skylake - in german


----------



## peche (Mar 21, 2016)

i have delidded several chips on several computers, from friends and also computers that i use, not all of them are being overclocked, but the ones i have done have shown excellent temps, minimal temp drop of 12C and with a 4770K that showed up incredible 25C drops... on Stock and like 20 on OC... i really suspect several things about that processor, she got it from a provider well known for selling OEM processors...

*Unlocked processors:*
3570K,  3 units,  this bastard gives excellent numbers when OC'd, great clocks and also most of their great overclocks are with stock voltages, 
4770K,  2 units, 
4590K,   just 1...
G3258, just one so far..


*Locked processors :* 
4460, just one.
4590, 3 units... they were in a really hot place, no money for a better cooler... so delid was another method for lowering temps... 
4770,    just one,
3770, 4 units, including mine, which was my first delid, then another on work, and 2 from 2 friends, 

Regards,


----------



## Sasqui (Mar 21, 2016)

peche said:


> i have delidded several chips on several computers, from friends and also computers that i use, not all of them are being overclocked, but the ones i have done have shown excellent temps, minimal temp drop of 12C and with a 4770K that showed up incredible 25C drops... on Stock and like 20 on OC... i really suspect several things about that processor, she got it from a provider well known for selling OEM processors...
> 
> *Unlocked processors:*
> 3570K,  3 units,  this bastard gives excellent numbers when OC'd, great clocks and also most of their great overclocks are with stock voltages,
> ...



Wow...  I totally agree about the 3570k, see my specs   Curiously, with vs. without the IHS (naked), it didn't make much difference.

I still need a baseline for the 4790k, overclocking the OEM, which I haven't done yet.  Too many other projects going on at home.


----------



## peche (Mar 21, 2016)

Sasqui said:


> Wow...  I totally agree about the 3570k, see my specs   Curiously, with vs. without the IHS (naked), it didn't make much difference.
> 
> I still need a baseline for the 4790k, overclocking the OEM, which I haven't done yet.  Too many other projects going on at home.


never ran any chip naked, 

Regards,


----------



## trog100 (Mar 21, 2016)

4.4 for a 4790K is a super cool sweet spot.. 4 ,5 is also cool.. once you start going much over that the temps go up along with the needed volts..

trog


----------



## EarthDog (Mar 21, 2016)

The obvious is obvious...


----------



## Sasqui (Mar 21, 2016)

trog100 said:


> 4.4 for a 4790K is a super cool sweet spot.. 4 ,5 is also cool.. once you start going much over that the temps go up along with the needed volts..
> 
> trog



Don't forget that 4.4 is the stock turbo boost speed for the 4790k... it's an ANIMAL!  http://ark.intel.com/products/80807/Intel-Core-i7-4790K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_40-GHz


----------



## trog100 (Mar 21, 2016)

Sasqui said:


> Don't forget that 4.4 is the stock turbo boost speed for the 4790k... it's an ANIMAL!  http://ark.intel.com/products/80807/Intel-Core-i7-4790K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_40-GHz



mine will only boost to 4.4 with a single thread application running.. two threads it boosts to  4.3 and more than two threads it only boosts to 4.2.. running a 44 x multiplyer gives 4.4 on all 8 threads.. it is worth doing and chip will do it at something very close to stock voltages..

i run mine 24/7 at 4,5 gig.. the chip does this very easily.. 4.6 needs more volts and 4.7 needs a lot more volts.. 

4.8 gets silly.. he he

trog


----------



## Schmuckley (Mar 21, 2016)

i wouldn't delid it.
You void the warranty..then you'll wanna lap it next ...
at which point if/when it dies you will eat it.
They don't taste very good to me.
Oh..here's one more thing:The 2 newer generation of chips fail at a higher rate than all previous generations.
I have personally have had..ok..2 4790Ks and 1 4770K fail..and someone else had one fail and I RMA'd it for them or something.
That's all during daily use, too.
Sure,I've killed chips before..giving them 1.9v.. but these things just fail with regular settings.
Other people are having similar results.
PS: The newest chips have even smaller/thinner dies.
Look what happens when you go to wipe the TIM off of the die:


----------



## Sasqui (Mar 21, 2016)

trog100 said:


> mine will only boost to 4.4 with a single thread application running.. two threads it boosts to  4.3 and more than two threads it only boosts to 4.2.. running a 44 x multiplyer gives 4.4 on all 8 threads.. it is worth doing and chip will do it at something very close to stock voltages..
> 
> i run mine 24/7 at 4,5 gig.. the chip does this very easily.. 4.6 needs more volts and 4.7 needs a lot more volts..
> 
> ...



Interesting... that sounds something like the turbo scheme used on mobile chips.  I'll be checking that out, thanks.


----------



## peche (Mar 21, 2016)

Schmuckley said:


>


delid method?
its almost imposible to broke CPU Die when you delid with a razor blade lad... also delid is up to ivybridge proceessors... sandies and older are soldered... delid is not a shinny option there... also is pretty complicated for getting no more that 1C drop with so much luck .. otherwise could shown worst temps...


----------



## EarthDog (Mar 21, 2016)

Sasqui said:


> Interesting... that sounds something like the turbo scheme used on mobile chips.  I'll be checking that out, thanks.


that's normal turbo on intel.


----------



## peche (Mar 21, 2016)

Sasqui said:


> Interesting... that sounds something like the turbo scheme used on mobile chips. I'll be checking that out, thanks.


under normal or stock settings that processor its capable of those speeds lad... unless it gets to hot and starts throttling....

# of Cores4
# of Threads8
Processor Base Frequency4 GHz
Max Turbo Frequency4.4 GHz

official link

Regards,


----------



## Sasqui (Mar 21, 2016)

peche said:


> under normal or stock settings that processor its capable of those speeds lad... unless it gets to hot and starts throttling....
> 
> # of Cores4
> # of Threads8
> ...



Yes, I posted the same link previously.  What's the best SW to see all the core speeds and temps... ?


----------



## peche (Mar 21, 2016)

Sasqui said:


> Yes, I posted the same link previously.  What's the best SW to see all the core speeds and temps... ?


i use HWinfo, i love it.... also i just open the app and check on run sensors only, that provides a full list of sensors and reads!
link 

Regards,


----------



## Sasqui (Mar 21, 2016)

peche said:


> i use HWinfo



That's what I suspected, thx!


----------



## peche (Mar 21, 2016)

Sasqui said:


> That's what I suspected, thx!


lol
why ?


----------



## Schmuckley (Mar 22, 2016)

*nm


----------



## Sasqui (Mar 22, 2016)

4.4 on all cores... what is different from yours @peche ?

This is running BOINC for over 3 weeks


----------



## Sasqui (Mar 22, 2016)

*4.6* ... nice!


----------



## Spaceman Spiff (Mar 22, 2016)

I sure have. Delid on my 4790k, CLLP between die and IHS. Lapped my IHS, CLLP between my IHS and Raystorm block, and lapped my Raystorm.

I run 4.9 @ 1.378v 24/7.  To get a stable 5.0 it takes me well above 1.4v.

Just finished a long play session of BF4, realtemp says my max temp is 65c. I've done a delid on 3 cpus, none have broken.  I used the vice and hammer method. I tried the razor blade, just didn't like it.

I think messing with it is fun though. Worth the risk to me.

Edit: SS posted , click and then click image for full size.


----------



## manofthem (Mar 22, 2016)

Sasqui said:


> *4.6* ... nice!



If I'm understanding you correctly, your chip puts out a nice OC at nice temps!  Ha, I doubt I'd bother delidding, but then again, I'd be curious to see what the temp drops look like


----------



## Jetster (Mar 22, 2016)

With the G3258 and the 4770K there were real benefits to deliding. The 4790K not so much


----------



## BarbaricSoul (Mar 22, 2016)

Sasqui said:


> 4.4 on all cores... what is different from yours @peche ?
> 
> This is running BOINC for over 3 weeks



Damn, I've got better temps at 4.1GHz on a 3930k with an air cooler ( http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Deepcool/Assassin/ ) than you do at 4.4GHz with a 4790k and a custom water loop. I didn't expect that.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 22, 2016)

Schmuckley said:


> i wouldn't delid it.
> You void the warranty..then you'll wanna lap it next ...
> at which point if/when it dies you will eat it.
> They don't taste very good to me.
> ...




get rid of all that black glue and the lid actually touches the chip properly.. i am pretty sure that is where the gain comes from.. its a mass production thing.. a dollop of glue and a dollop of paste press together and the job is done.. sometimes not very well.. he he

trog


----------



## EarthDog (Mar 22, 2016)

BarbaricSoul said:


> Damn, I've got better temps at 4.1GHz on a 3930k with an air cooler ( http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Deepcool/Assassin/ ) than you do at 4.4GHz with a 4790k and a custom water loop. I didn't expect that.


Soldered TIM on HEDT platforms.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 22, 2016)

my 4790K at 4.5 gig.. air cooled with the intel glue removed  and liquid ultra paste.. running wprime on 8 threads

Dark Rock TF cooler and case side fans feeding the top flow cooler.. cheap mid tower case which is a tad over full.. 

having read loads of cooler reviews i havnt seen many better.. the chip will go quicker i just think 4.5 is a nice speed to run it at..







trog

ps.. what is inside the case.. the two cards generate a lot of heat but the cpu never goes over 60  C whilst gaming.. there is also an unseen 120 mm fan in the top of the case.. plus two at the front which on or off make no difference.. my case side fans do the business..


----------



## Sasqui (Mar 22, 2016)

BarbaricSoul said:


> Damn, I've got better temps at 4.1GHz on a 3930k with an air cooler ( http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Deepcool/Assassin/ ) than you do at 4.4GHz with a 4790k and a custom water loop. I didn't expect that.



The chip is under air not H2O.  Be Quiet! Cooler, I forget the model


----------



## Sasqui (Mar 22, 2016)

trog100 said:


> get rid of all that black glue and the lid actually touches the chip properly.. i am pretty sure that is where the gain comes from.. its a mass production thing.. a dollop of glue and a dollop of paste press together and the job is done.. sometimes not very well.. he he
> 
> trog



Interesting theory... rather than a thin layer of TIM, you have a mm or so.  That would surely make a difference.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 22, 2016)

Sasqui said:


> Interesting theory... rather than a thin layer of TIM, you have a mm or so.  That would surely make a difference.



when the cooler is clamped on pressure is also applied between the lid and chip.. when the glue is there there is no pressure between lid and chip.. the glue takes the load..

having a basic engineering background it all seems pretty obvious to me.. the way its done is simply a production cost saving measure.. not the best way of doing it but the cheapest..

good enough to do the job intel thinks it should do.. which if i were intel i would do the same thing.. he he

trog


----------



## peche (Mar 22, 2016)

i still have my doubts about the most popular delid method here.. since the picture of a broken die ...


----------



## Sasqui (Mar 22, 2016)

peche said:


> i still have my doubts about the most popular delid method here.. since the picture of a broken die ...



I would *never* use the vice and hammer method.  Razor, a steady hand and a little patience, that's how i did it before.

I'm going to mess a little more with the multi and voltages, then pop the lid and test her out.  Hopefully by the end of the week.


----------



## peche (Mar 22, 2016)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> I've done a delid on 3 cpus, none have broken. I used the vice and hammer method. I tried the razor blade, just didn't like it.


why you dont? 
using a hammer its the easiest way to f*ck your chip ...


Sasqui said:


> I would *never* use the vice and hammer method.  Razor, a steady hand and a little patience, that's how i did it before.
> 
> I'm going to mess a little more with the multi and voltages, then pop the lid and test her out.  Hopefully by the end of the week.


razor blade is the easiest way, just a little patience and sharpen blade... thats all ... is a little bit more complex to apply liquid metal on Die than delidding with a razor blade...


----------



## Sasqui (Mar 22, 2016)

peche said:


> why you dont?
> using a hammer its the easiest way to f*ck your chip ...
> 
> razor blade is the easiest way, just a little patience and sharpen blade... thats all ... is a little bit more complex to apply liquid metal on Die than delidding with a razor blade...



There's risk with both, but taking a hammer to a $300 chip isn't on my todo list, lol.


----------



## Kissamies (Mar 22, 2016)

Well not a i7-4790K, but I delidded my G3258 and like expected, temps went down. Liquid Ultra between the die and IHS. Used a razor for delidding since that was the only thing I had near.


----------



## peche (Mar 22, 2016)

9700 Pro said:


> Well not a i7-4790K, but I delidded my G3258 and like expected, temps went down. Liquid Ultra between the die and IHS. Used a razor for delidding since that was the only thing I had near.


what did you use between ihs and cooler?


----------



## Spaceman Spiff (Mar 22, 2016)

To be honest using a razor felt more risky to me. With the potential to cut through and hit the small capacitors on the side of the cpu, apply some torque accidentally and mess up the pcb, or cut my own hand.

With the vice and hammer method you're not actually 'taking a hammer' directly to the cpu. Place the cpu in the vice with all clamping pressure on the IHS. Then take a small 2x4 or a denser wood and place that against the pcb and tap it until it breaks the intel glue.

I also tried just the vice method. Place the cpu with one end of the pcb against the back of the vice and the front grabbing the IHS on the opposite side. Then just slowly tighten and loosen the vice until the glue breaks free. No impact to the pcb!







Edit: I still my have my 4770k from my first delid. Haven't put it up F/S yet. I ran it at 4.5Ghz, 4.6 took waay to much voltage.


----------



## Sasqui (Mar 22, 2016)

peche said:


> what did you use between ihs and cooler?



Hellman's mayonnaise hahahaa


----------



## peche (Mar 22, 2016)

Sasqui said:


> Hellman's mayonnaise hahahaa






Spaceman Spiff said:


> To be honest using a razor felt more risky to me. With the potential to cut through and hit the small capacitors on the side of the cpu, apply some torque accidentally and mess up the pcb, or cut my own hand.
> 
> With the vice and hammer method you're not actually 'taking a hammer' directly to the cpu. Place the cpu in the vice with all clamping pressure on the IHS. Then take a small 2x4 or a denser wood and place that against the pcb and tap it until it breaks the intel glue.
> 
> ...


its the easiest way lad...i takes like 5 or 8 minutes to delid and clean a chip dude...


----------



## Spaceman Spiff (Mar 22, 2016)

Well i found the vice easier for me. *shrug*


----------



## peche (Mar 22, 2016)

also there is a delid device...









Regards,


----------



## Sasqui (Mar 22, 2016)

peche said:


> also there is a delid device...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Intel needs a de-lid factory, that's a start, lol


----------



## peche (Mar 22, 2016)

Sasqui said:


> Intel needs a de-lid factory, that's a start, lol


intel should sell a processor without the crappy paste... soldered like older generations... 
or sell processor without being glued...


----------



## Folterknecht (Mar 22, 2016)

or print one yourself

https://www.youmagine.com/designs/skylake-delid-tool


----------



## manofthem (Mar 22, 2016)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> I also tried just the vice method. Place the cpu with one end of the pcb against the back of the vice and the front grabbing the IHS on the opposite side. Then just slowly tighten and loosen the vice until the glue breaks free. No impact to the pcb!



This is the method I want to try next time I delid; it seems very easy. 

I used a hammer and block when I delid my 4770k, and I can really complain about it, pretty easy. Once I got over the initial fear of wracking your cpu, it took just a few hits


----------



## trog100 (Mar 22, 2016)

Sasqui said:


> I would *never* use the vice and hammer method.  Razor, a steady hand and a little patience, that's how i did it before.
> 
> I'm going to mess a little more with the multi and voltages, then pop the lid and test her out.  Hopefully by the end of the week.



i just carefully worked around mine with an old fashioned thin razor blade.. start at a corner and move around the lid.. .. it took a few minutes of rocking the blade backwards and forwards and the lid popped of.. i used the same blade to remove the glue.. a thin blade being the secret i think..

you just have to be careful and not go in too far with the blade.. start at each corner and keep working a little deeper on each side till the lid pops off..

i just chose the blade method.. i wont debate which method is best.. he he..

trog


----------



## peche (Mar 22, 2016)

Folterknecht said:


> or print one yourself
> 
> https://www.youmagine.com/designs/skylake-delid-tool


seems legit...



manofthem said:


> This is the method I want to try next time I delid; it seems very easy.
> 
> I used a hammer and block when I delid my 4770k, and I can really complain about it, pretty easy. Once I got over the initial fear of wracking your cpu, it took just a few hits


thats something i'll never done...


----------



## trog100 (Mar 22, 2016)

peche said:


> intel should sell a processor without the crappy paste... soldered like older generations...
> or sell processor without being glued...


 
i see some sounds reasons for doing it the way they do.. plus there would be no fun if intel did it for you.. 

trog


----------



## frozen_one (Mar 26, 2016)

peche said:


> also there is a delid device...



That looks like the same one here: http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2016/03/17/rockit-88-kickstarter/1
Seems its crowdfunded already, so I won't have to stick my 6600k in a vise


----------



## peche (Mar 27, 2016)

printed tools on videos seems to be another way arround for delid!
i would like to try one out!

Regards,


----------



## Sasqui (Mar 30, 2016)

Ok, now I'm convinced I need to de-lid.  It's been running BOINC fine, tops out at 81c clocked at 4.6Ghz.  However, running Prime95 quickly got it up to throttle at 100c, within less than a minute.  I let it run for about 20 minutes and it was perfectly stable (considering it was throttling back to 4.3Ghz, that's not surprising.)

Wasn't there some issue with Prime95 and the 4th gen processors?

Edit:  read this on THG:



> Do NOT use any Prime95 versions later than 26.6. Here's why:
> 
> Core i 2nd, 3rd and 4th Generation CPU's have AVX (Advanced Vector Extension) instruction sets. Recent versions of Prime95 run AVX code on the Floating Point Unit (FPU) math coprocessor, which produces unrealistically high temperatures. The FPU test in the software utility AIDA64 shows the same results.
> 
> Prime95 v26.6 produces temperatures on 3rd and 4th Generation processors more consistent with 2nd Generation, which also have AVX instructions, but do not suffer from thermal extremes due to having a soldered Integrated Heat Spreader and a 35% larger Die.


----------



## GelatanousMuck (Apr 16, 2016)

Sasqui said:


> Good choice of keywords, first hit is a goldmine
> 
> http://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=94365.
> 
> ...



Regarding the posted link:

If I was going to delid my CPU and toss it's warranty out of the window, I would not put the heat spreader back on it!

I would absolutely bare die mount my water block to it and use Cool Laboratory Liquid Metal Pro.

Why would anyone delid a CPU and not flat out go for it!


----------



## peche (Apr 16, 2016)

GelatanousMuck said:


> If I was going to delid my CPU and toss it's warranty out of the window, I would not put the heat spreader back on it!
> 
> I would absolutely bare die mount my water block to it and use Cool Laboratory Liquid Metal Pro.


Are you on drugs, aren't you?
dont recommend people to screw the system just for a few degrees that wont be that far from using the normal IHS...difference wont be extremely different...its more complicated, worthless

Regards,


----------



## GelatanousMuck (Apr 16, 2016)

peche said:


> Are you on drugs, aren't you?
> dont recommend people to screw the system just for a few degrees that wont be that far from using the normal IHS...difference wont be extremely different...its more complicated, worthless
> 
> Regards,



No I do not do drugs!

My point is in the early days CPUs didn't have a heat spreader anyway!

If you need an example, AMD Thunderbird, Intel Pentium III, etc., etc., etc.!

If you are already throwing the warranty away anyway, what difference does it make!

Anyone exercising system caution is not going to delid their CPU in the first place!


----------



## GelatanousMuck (Apr 16, 2016)

I don't think that EK thinks it is a detrimental thing to do, bare die mounting on the CPU die, since they have actually marketed EK Precision Mount kits, for the EK Supremacy Water Block for bare die mounting on specific CPUs.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/acce...-supremacy-precisemount-add-on-naked-ivy.html

The kit I'll be using when I delid my 3770K and see just how far it can actually be pushed, as for now it is overclocked to 5ghz without delidding it.


----------



## Sasqui (Apr 16, 2016)

GelatanousMuck said:


> Regarding the posted link:
> 
> If I was going to delid my CPU and toss it's warranty out of the window, I would not put the heat spreader back on it!
> 
> ...



Rather counterintuive results I got from new TIM on IHS vs naked (see specs for my 3570k).  Only dropped about 2c.  The other consideration is the top of the bare die isn't much higher than the top of the socket clip... Plus the IHS provides a shim for those that very same clip.  Effectively, my chip is held in place by the WC block! Next time I take it out, the IHS is going back on.


----------



## GelatanousMuck (Apr 16, 2016)

Sasqui said:


> Rather counterintuive results I got from new TIM on IHS vs naked (see specs for my 3570k).  Only dropped about 2c.  The other consideration is the top of the bare die isn't much higher than the top of the socket clip... Plus the IHS provides a shim for those that very same clip.  Effectively, my chip is held in place by the WC block! Next time I take it out, the IHS is going back on.



What TIM did you use?

What socket clip are you referring to?


----------



## peche (Apr 16, 2016)

GelatanousMuck said:


> No I do not do drugs!
> 
> My point is in the early days CPUs didn't have a heat spreader anyway!
> 
> ...



running it naked is not as easy as it sounds fella



GelatanousMuck said:


> I don't think that EK thinks it is a detrimental thing to do, bare die mounting on the CPU die, since they have actually marketed EK Precision Mount kits, for the EK Supremacy Water Block for bare die mounting on specific CPUs.
> 
> http://www.performance-pcs.com/acce...-supremacy-precisemount-add-on-naked-ivy.html
> 
> The kit I'll be using when I delid my 3770K and see just how far it can actually be pushed, as for now it is overclocked to 5ghz without delidding it.


not delidded 5ghz?
volts or settings? thats int


----------



## GelatanousMuck (Apr 16, 2016)

peche said:


> running it naked is not as easy as it sounds fella
> 
> 
> not delidded 5ghz?
> volts or settings? thats int



Do you have a problem with me or something, peche?

I never said it was easy, I said if someone was going to delid their CPU, why not go for all they could possibly get from it after the delidding had already cost them their CPU warranty!

Are you questioning my 5ghz 3770K overclock?

Ran the CPU-Z Validation just for you, check the date, note hyper threading is enabled and voltages are clearly shown.

The screenshot below the validation is with hyper threading disabled and voltage is shown as well.


----------



## peche (Apr 16, 2016)

GelatanousMuck said:


> Are you questioning my 5ghz 3770K overclock?


im not, i would like to know more if possible, im trying to reach 4.8ghz at leats on an delidded 4770K which is almost the same processor but is not possible, so i would like to ask .. 



GelatanousMuck said:


> Do you have a problem with me or something, peche?
> 
> I never said it was easy, I said if someone was going to delid their CPU, why not go for all they could possibly get from it after the delidding had already cost them their CPU warranty!


im just telling that is not easy and also most people wont do it nor like it ... no problems so far dude, its a forum dont get posts personal...




GelatanousMuck said:


> Ran the CPU-Z Validation just for you, check the date, note hyper threading is enabled and voltages are clearly shown.
> 
> The screenshot below the validation is with hyper threading disabled and voltage is shown as well.


gotta make some changes on that 4770k ... for getting better clocks...


----------



## Schmuckley (Apr 16, 2016)

I tell you what:
Haswell-on chips are very fragile.
If you delid and void your warranty:You are screwed.
I just had another one die..and I refuse to buy anymore of them..ever!
I didn't delid it..so I will RMA and sell it off.
Daily clocks..dies..garbage.
Come on AMD!


----------



## trog100 (Apr 17, 2016)

i clock for reliable everyday usage.. spending a fortune on super cooling just to gain a real world totally unnoticeable couple of hundred hrz makes not the slightest sense to me..

this chart should explain why these higher end chips come clocked at the speed they come clocked at.. cheaper ones come underclcocked just to fit a price structure.. the higher end ones come clocked for real..

they all have a sweet spot.. my 4790K is around 4.5.. going beyond that ramps up the heat big style.. the chart should show why..







it also explains why laptop chips come with much lower clocks.. he he

trog


----------



## jaggerwild (Apr 17, 2016)

http://hwbot.org/submission/2582469_philly_cheese_steak_cpu_frequency_core_i7_3770k_5018.52_mhz

 No delid, RMA keeps me in chips! Usually its the board limiting the chip, or so I seem to think................


----------



## GelatanousMuck (Apr 17, 2016)

peche said:


> im not, i would like to know more if possible, im trying to reach 4.8ghz at leats on an delidded 4770K which is almost the same processor but is not possible, so i would like to ask ..
> 
> 
> im just telling that is not easy and also most people wont do it nor like it ... no problems so far dude, its a forum dont get posts personal...
> ...



The reason I can run a 5ghz overclock on a CPU running TIM under the heat spreader is the cooling, I am running below ambient chilled water cooling.
My coolant temperature is peltier cold side generated, running on a preset temperature relay to keep my coolant temperature in the 10c target zone, which in a 23c ambient room temperature is 13c below ambient.
I am running below ambient but still above any condensation developing temperature, so that is not a problem.
And that sir is why I can run a 5ghz rock solid stable overclock.

There is a link to my cooling in my sig, if you are curious.


----------



## Sasqui (Apr 17, 2016)

GelatanousMuck said:


> What socket clip are you referring to?



The foxconn trap clip that locks the CPU in the socket... on virtually every motherboard.  The top of the IHS is pretty thick, more that a mm I'm guessing.  Take that off, and the heatsink has to sit that much lower to make contact with the die


----------



## GelatanousMuck (Apr 17, 2016)

Sasqui said:


> The foxconn trap clip that locks the CPU in the socket... on virtually every motherboard.  The top of the IHS is pretty thick, more that a mm I'm guessing.  Take that off, and the heatsink has to sit that much lower to make contact with the die



With a bare die mount you remove that clamping mechanism.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2285595


----------



## trog100 (Apr 17, 2016)

i took the top off my 4790K not just to change the tim.. i did it to make sure it was assemble properly.. intels (cheap mass production) way of doing it aint that clever.. there is no pressure between top and chip and there is too much paste..

so i have answered the question of why i took mine off and then put it back.. i did think about not putting the top back but decided any tiny gain would not be worth the trouble..

trog


----------



## Sasqui (Apr 17, 2016)

GelatanousMuck said:


> With a bare die mount you remove that clamping mechanism.
> 
> http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2285595



Yes.



trog100 said:


> i took the top off my 4790K not just to change the tim.. i did it to make sure it was assemble properly.. intels (cheap mass production) way of doing it aint that clever.. there is no pressure between top and chip and there is too much paste..
> 
> so i have answered the question of why i took mine off and then put it back.. i did think about not putting the top back but decided any tiny gain would not be worth the trouble..
> 
> trog



Wasn't for me either.  The die and IHS was pretty tight so no real improvement.  Intel must of figured out tolerances, or it was an accident... Bawhahaaa!


----------



## trog100 (Apr 17, 2016)

Sasqui said:


> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> Wasn't for me either.  The die and IHS was pretty tight so no real improvement.  Intel must of figured out tolerances, or it was an accident... Bawhahaaa!




the only way to find out is try it and see.. i gained a good 10 C maybe a little more i think they can vary somewhat.. 

trog


----------



## peche (Apr 18, 2016)

Schmuckley said:


> Come on AMD!


no thanks ... nothing gooood for me on that side...



GelatanousMuck said:


> The reason I can run a 5ghz overclock on a CPU running TIM under the heat spreader is the cooling, I am running below ambient chilled water cooling.
> My coolant temperature is peltier cold side generated, running on a preset temperature relay to keep my coolant temperature in the 10c target zone, which in a 23c ambient room temperature is 13c below ambient.
> I am running below ambient but still above any condensation developing temperature, so that is not a problem.
> And that sir is why I can run a 5ghz rock solid stable overclock.
> ...


thanks again sir


----------



## cat1092 (Apr 12, 2018)

Normally I don't like to revive long dead Topics, yet since I have an i7-4790K that peaks at 4.6GHz (although at high voltage & temps under load), want to delid to reduce both. And then try to get to 4.8GHz stable, with some luck, 4.9 or 5.0GHz. 

Have been able to boot at 4.8Ghz with only multiplier adjustment, and disabling a few things that more OC'ers does. Yet as soon as I fire up the Intel Extreme Tuning Utility & start to perform a benchmark, half way through, sometimes almost done, never fails, BSOD. The best I can do w/out crashes is setting multiplier at 47 & that'll allow me to run the bench, my best score so far was 1224 on 09/17/2017. It can be seen below that how many times I came close, took over 5-6 months to beat my previous best of 1221. 

https://hwbot.org/user/cat1092/

Some may question why I want to make a 5.0GHz run (or close), well it's the last best Intel CPU I'll own, because AMD still builds theirs the old fashioned way, with a soldered on IHS. Come two years, it'll be the equivalent of today's Ryzen 1800X for me. 

I use my PC for some general usage, also for folding@home, everyone knows, the higher the performance, the more PPD earned. And I earn far less points with the CPU than the GTX 1070 FTW, so need to make that chip perform.

Too, it's kind of a bragging rights thing, I'd guess that over 80% of those who delids (or even purchases a high performance CPU) are doing so for that purpose. Although with Haswell, things were a bit different, the closest model to it was the 4790 (non-K). Ran at 3.6GHz with 4.0GHz Turbo, going to the K version was a massive leap w/out OC'ing. There would be a few other Haswell i7's that had close performance to the vanilla 4790 (the 4770 included with my XPS 8700 is close, once a Top 10 CPU on Passmark), still the 4790K was the cream of the crop. According to Passmark, even with DDR4 RAM & new chipset/MB, still edges the i7-6700K by a hair (non-OC'd). 

Has the standards changed since this was discussed? Am a bit confused whether to use clear nail polish or the liquid electrical tape I just learned of tonight. I'd assume it's best to pick up a bottle to be on the safe side. 

Will be using the Rockit88 1150/1151 delid/relid kit & won't be using so much glue, just a very light touch of RTV sealant on the corners & no more. Have the Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut liquid metal compound, will be plenty to do all three of my Haswell's (there's the other Devil's Canyon, i5-4690K in another build). 

So if I can run at 4.6Ghz with stock TIM & Noctua NH-D15 cooler, wouldn't it seem that an added gain of 400MHz be possible with liquid metal, combined with tweaking voltages as I bump the multiplier upwards? While that may seem to be a tall order, it's not a lot to ask for & expect, the cooler running chip should be able to pull it off. Of course, it'll take 24 hours of folding at each step after some Prime95 tests to ensure stability. Looking to move up 100MHz at a time, make adjustments as needed, until I run against the wall.

If that wall happens to be having a system running at 5.0 or maybe 5.1GHz, it'll all be worth the effort. Than will move onto the oldest, the XPS 8700, of which CPU temps has naturally risen, even with a now copper core cooler with downwards blowing Noctua NF-A9 fan & exhaust fan spinning at 2.5x of that when new, plus added an intake fan for more airflow. Stronger flow at that, the exhaust is connected to the CPU with a PWM splitter, the intake is plugged into the native exhaust & running almost as fast. 

Thanks for any responses.

Cat


----------



## Folterknecht (Apr 12, 2018)

cat1092 said:


> ...


----------



## cat1092 (Apr 12, 2018)

Thanks for the video, have the Rockit88 tool already, ordered two of their copper IHS replacement minutes ago, along with one relid guide that works with the kit.

https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/products/copper-ihs-for-lga-1150

Works with both 1150 & 1155 CPU's, there's a different for 1151

https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/products/copper-ihs-for-lga-1150-1151

Figured to go with this over the one already installed, copper tends to run cooler (gets rid of heat faster) & will save time on cleanup. Also larger surface area. May get a liquid cooler, depending on how this works out.

Cat


----------



## jboydgolfer (Apr 12, 2018)

@cat1092 the rockit88 works for 1150 & 1151,(and possibly more, but these are the two i did)  i did it this past week.*edit* maybe you were referring to that copper ihs thing. Nvrmnd

using that tool makes it SO easy, there literally only human error left to chance. I recently did a couple of my Chips, and a 4790 a well, i dropped 28c, but my Stock TIM was dried aF. the 4790 has a ton of capacitors, or whatever they are on the left side of the chip, i just scotch taped it off on one side on the IHS, and surrounded the ship with scotch tape on the Wafer.

Another point I think that's worth mentioning, when you put your chip in the device and you have it all clamp down ratchet the piston forward until it contacts that IHS, then put a piece of tape that shows that line (when its starting to push the IHS) that you can see while the device is closed ,because my 4790 didn't make that pop sound it just slid off , and if i weren't paying attention and just twisting waiting for that pop sound i couldve possibly broke it.  Or you can just take note of the lettering on the top of the CPU as it moves to the side






I put VERY little RTV on for sealant, I can hold the chip to my eye, and see light right through it. I spread it thin, on each of the corners with a tooth pick, and it doesnt even squeeze out when i vice it down. if your scraping RTV after it dries, youve added too much





i recommend using a fine tipped marker, and putting a line, or marking on the corner with the Golden Arrow, it helps avoid any possible human error, as putting the lid on wrong is one of the few things left for a person to screw up. like this on my 8600k


----------



## infrared (Apr 12, 2018)

Excellent info from jboy and falter re delidding.



cat1092 said:


> I use my PC for some general usage, also for folding@home, everyone knows, the higher the performance, the more PPD earned. And I earn far less points with the CPU than the GTX 1070 FTW, so need to make that chip perform.



Just wanted to pick up on this, using a CPU to fold is pretty much a waste of time, even with it overclocked as hard as you can the PPD will be dismal compared to a GPU. A better way to contribute to medical research using your CPU would be to install boinc and join our WCG team, it's CPU only and you'd be making a much bigger contribution in that than you would in F@H. A lot of us run both folding@home on GPU and WCG on CPU at the same time, you just need to set WCG to leave a thread free to feed the GPU (if ppd drops, just free up a second thread). Just a suggestion, apologies if you're already aware and just prefer f@h.


----------



## flexy (Apr 28, 2018)

This is an old topic, but I recently again got into thinking about delidding...in the meantime there are also many great tools out there to help you.

But let me tell you my story, this was on my old Haswell 4770k which I so badly wanted to delid...

* It was a TOTAL NIGHTMARE and I *almost* destroyed my CPU. (Or at least that's what I thought...)

First, ignore all the delid Youtube videos where you see some idiot with a carpet knife or even a utility knife, since according to my experience these knives are WAY too thick. You won't cut into the sides of your chip with a box cutter or a carpet knife. And if you do, then with a very high risk for damage.

When I tried to delid mine, I thought I was well prepared and watched many videos, but then in reality it turned out a total pain in the ass.
I started to slowly trying to cut, until at some point I slipped. Obviously I freaked out. I realized there is no way to do this with a box cutter, if at all then with a razor.

When I turned my chip over after the slip, I spotted several (2-3) contacts on the chip had been "flaked off". (In the mean-time I realized that these "flaked off" contacts were likely not because of my slipped knife, but I think that this is how I got the CPU since I bought it used back then. If I had cut the CPU, the dmg would look different, IMO).

I was of course at first 100% convinced that the chip is destroyed since I thought I did the dmg, but low and behold I could reassemble the PC and it worked. It then did all sorts of tests and can't find a problem. I looked up these exact pins on schematics, and it seems to be redundant/non important pins.

But the point why I then never ever considered any other delidding (with vice or even with these tools) is that the CPU obviously is already "gnarly" and already lost pins...so I didn't do anything else like putting it in a frickin' vice and whack....who knows, more pins might come off. I am glad that thing works so I haven't touched it ever since.

That Haswell gets insanely hot...OCCT, Prime95...I mean you all know the usual offenders. (I am running at 4.4@1.250), 1.250 is really the upper limit on air.

But here is the deal: So the CPU gets 85-90C in OCCT, but despite these temps shocking you never see these temps "in real life". You won't see 90C in BF4 or whatever game. I simply accepted that Haswell gets crazy hot in synthetic tests. So I just don't use them. For testing I am now using Real Bench, or maybe X264 stability test. Yes, it's still "warm" (80s) when I run X264 test...but at least the PC works and I am fine with my 4.4Ghz. I'd likely delid a new CPU with a tool, but not this one that's already lost some pins for whatever reason. Too much risk, IMO. (I also did some calculations back then and concluded that even if I had delidded and say it would run 20C or so cooler, the chip doesn't have much headroom for a higher OC. I'd likely have to feed it 1.45 or whatever for 100-200Mhz more, which I now can't do because of temps, but ultimately not worth it for me.)


----------



## Bones (Apr 28, 2018)

Have a tool I made originally to delid PS CPUs to redo the dried out TIM when fixing overheating issues such as the red or yellow LED of death with those. The tool was originally for another purpose in how thin yet stiff the metal/blade was. That made it perfect for the job I need it for.
Had to shape and reshape the config of it a few times to get it right but now I can delid a PS3 CPU with ease..... And can do it to a PC CPU too. Used it to delid my 7700K and worked perfectly, in fact that went easier than doing a PS3 CPU normally would have.

Was also a good thing I had several older/dead PS3's to work out the kinks with it, I did manage to kill couple of boards due to knocking components around trying to manuver the tool around when cutting, PS3 CPUs are soldered into the board and you can't remove them so you gotta work with and around everything there.
Got those issues worked out by refining the config and also have to say it has yet to cut into the PCB of the chip itself, solved that problem right from the start. If it's going to try and cut anything it will be the lid, not the PCB of the CPU.

So.... If you are really determined to make something work it's possible, what I have wasn't originally intended to delid chips like my Kaby but worked perfectly when tried and the change in temps afterwards showed it as worth doing.
Not OC'ing the chip, it's more of a lower temp ='s a longer life with less degration for the chip overall.


----------



## Vayra86 (Apr 28, 2018)

flexy said:


> This is an old topic, but I recently again got into thinking about delidding...in the meantime there are also many great tools out there to help you.
> 
> But let me tell you my story, this was on my old Haswell 4770k which I so badly wanted to delid...
> 
> ...



Well spoken. Delidding is mostly an enthusiast type of move where you just want to squeeze more out of a chip and run it as cool as possible. Both aren't necessary in any way, and if you're not having fun doing such things, just don't. The TIM is fine as it is - yes even on Coffee Lake.


----------

