# Radeon HD 5970 Offers Massive Overclocking Headroom



## btarunr (Nov 17, 2009)

AMD's dual-GPU flagship graphics accelerator, the Radeon HD 5970, is closer than you think it is. Slated for 18th Nov, it includes every feature that allows AMD to reclaim the performance leadership it yearned for since the beginning of this year. In a series of company slides sourced from XtremeSystems Forums, it is learned that this could be one of the first accelerators which AMD "openly" markets as having a "Massive Headroom" for overclocking. While the clock speeds on the HD 5970 are lower than those on the single-GPU HD 5870, AMD lifted limits on what the driver-level ATI Overdrive software can offer in terms of clock speeds. While the engine (core) and memory speeds are set at 720/1000 MHz, the unlocked ATI Overdrive lets users take the clock speeds all the way up to 1000/1500 MHz. That's 30% for the core, and a stellar 50% for the memory.

To back such speeds, AMD seems to have splurged heavily on top-notch components on the PCB. To begin with, the PCB holds two high-grade AMD Cypress GPUs, each with all its 1600 stream processors enabled. The GDDR5 memory, while clocked at 1000 MHz or 4 GT/s, is technically rated by its manufacturer to run at 1250 MHz or 5 GT/s. All systems are powered by high-grade digital PWM voltage regulators, with independent Volterra VRM controllers that allow real-time monitoring, and software voltage control. Barring the five-odd cylindrical solid-state capacitors, Japanese pure ceramic surface-mount capacitors are extensively made use of. 



 

 




The card's cooling assembly isn't any less descriptive either. It consists of a back-plate that cools memory chips on the reverse side of the PCB, while its obverse side is cooled by a large, consistent vapor-chamber plate, which covers the main components such as GPUs, the PCI-Express bridge chip, and the VRM chips. This is a design change compared to the R700 and R680, in which each GPU had its own heatsink, and one of the two would end up with second-hand (pre-heated) air from the other. Instead, the vapor-chamber plate conveys heat directly to a large, monolithic heatsink, which from the looks of it, features aluminum-fabbed air-channels. AMD's workhorse leaf-blower is still around, though this time, it is controlled by an SMSC EMC-2103 multi-point programmable PWM fan controller. The specs sheet shows the card's idle and maximum board power draws to be 42W and 294W, respectively. 





*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## overclocker (Nov 17, 2009)

Wow looks sick, makes me almosy wanna buy a desktop again


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## DirectorC (Nov 17, 2009)

And it's gonna cost me my farm and my peg leg.


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## DaJMasta (Nov 17, 2009)

Holy hell.


I haven't heard of ANY high end card with such high percentage OCs EVER.  Could it be that they don't want to invest in a better cooler (could be way expensive), so they are essentially selling an undercooled, underclocked version for people to tinker with as they please?

EDIT: Looks like not if the cooling beast on it is rated for 400W.


Maybe the Overdrive has just been opened up a little for their uber high end, but still it looks good just from that.


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## HTC (Nov 17, 2009)

More slides, by jaredpace:

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=1638260&postcount=114


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## btarunr (Nov 17, 2009)

HTC said:


> More slides, by jaredpace:
> 
> http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=1638260&postcount=114



Nice. Those 'more' (extra) slides aren't relevant to this article though. Good job Jared.


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## erocker (Nov 17, 2009)

Now I see why Sapphire released that info on their VaporX technology. ATi is using it here on a stock card! What a beast, and it "supposedly" uses less power than a 4870X2.


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## DirectorC (Nov 17, 2009)

IIRC 4870x2 used an average of just a little over 300, so this card at 294W peak isn't really a whole lot to brag about, but it does run a hell of a lot faster and when you take that into consideration the numbers change drastically.


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## HTC (Nov 17, 2009)

DirectorC said:


> IIRC 4870x2 used an average of just a little over 300, so this card at 294W peak isn't really a whole lot to brag about, *but it does run a hell of a lot faster and when you take that into consideration the numbers change drastically*.



*Supposedly*, this card will give the performance of two 4870x2 with just a tad bit less power of a single 4870x2. With that in mind, "drastically" doesn't quite describe it ...


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## DirectorC (Nov 17, 2009)

HTC said:


> *Supposedly*, this card will give the performance of two 4870x2 with just a tad bit less power of a single 4870x2. With that in mind, "drastically" doesn't quite describe it ...





Alright then, we'll change it to *'monumentally staggering'*.


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## Kenshai (Nov 17, 2009)

DaJMasta said:


> Holy hell.
> 
> 
> I haven't heard of ANY high end card with such high percentage OCs EVER.  Could it be that they don't want to invest in a better cooler (could be way expensive), so they are essentially selling an undercooled, underclocked version for people to tinker with as they please?
> ...



I'm pretty sure they aren't clocking it too high so as to brag about it's great overclocking potential. Marketing ploys I assume.


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## Kreij (Nov 17, 2009)

I'll wait for W1zz's review before I make any conclusions on the ability of the 5970.


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 17, 2009)

who cares, Nvidia did the same thing with the 295.


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## HTC (Nov 17, 2009)

Kenshai said:


> I'm pretty sure they aren't clocking it too high so as to brag about it's great overclocking potential. Marketing ploys I assume.



Look @ this pic (point #5 of slide 8):







It's the 7th pic found in the link i posted earlier, from jaredpace.


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## AsRock (Nov 17, 2009)

Hey don't forget that 42w idle power usage which is much better than the 4870x2.

Maybe they clocked it lower to let those who do overclock them get a better 3rd party cooler which would be more suitable.

Still thinking of waiting till the 68xx range.


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## Sasqui (Nov 17, 2009)

I haven't even opened my 5850 and I'm selling it.


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## Kenshai (Nov 17, 2009)

HTC said:


> Look @ this pic (point #5 of slide 8):
> 
> http://i35.tinypic.com/2641gr9.jpg
> 
> It's the 7th pic found in the link i posted earlier, from jaredpace.



Your point is? Basically every company says overclock at your own risk, it's taking fault out of ATI's hands and putting it in that of the consumer. Basically watching their own back. They could have clocked it higher from the factory. 

All they're really saying is, you can bring it there with overdrive, not that it will.


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## HTC (Nov 17, 2009)

Kenshai said:


> *Your point is? Basically every company says overclock at your own risk*, it's taking fault out of ATI's hands and putting it in that of the consumer. Basically watching their own back. They could have clocked it higher from the factory.
> 
> All they're really saying is, you can bring it there with overdrive, not that it will.



Not that: the 2nd sentence, where it says the OC potential has been left uncapped.


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## mastrdrver (Nov 17, 2009)

This is awesome, but if I jump on one I'm waiting until someone puts out one with two 8-pin connectors. Its so close to pushing the available power it can pull through the 6-pin, 8-pin, and pci-e slot that I'm not too sure how stable if you really start to push it like we've seen with the 5870s.

Either way, I hope the vaper cooler works a lot better than what they have used with the 4870x2 and 3870x2. I know everyone always rants about Sapphire's vapor cards, but this will really prove the tech in case anyone had any doubts.



DirectorC said:


> And it's gonna cost me my farm and my peg leg.



Better get to it! You only got 2 days until it is released!!


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## Kenshai (Nov 17, 2009)

I'm not trying to start flaming, I was just stating that the cards are underclocked and they are advertising some crazy headroom. The simple math is if the cards were put at 850 core and 1200 memory that the 5870 has, the percentages wouldn't seem as outrageous.


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## aj28 (Nov 17, 2009)

Kenshai said:


> I'm pretty sure they aren't clocking it too high so as to brag about it's great overclocking potential. Marketing ploys I assume.



That and I think the image of having an overclocking tool built into stock drivers does a lot for them. The only problem is that people who are serious about overclocking these chips turn to third-party tools due to the relatively modest limits and featureless interface.

That said, temp monitoring and voltage tweaks in Overdrive = Massive win for ATi in the enthusiast market.

While I understand they wish to avoid warranty issues and whatnot, I feel this should be an added feature of XT chips. As they pointed out in the slides, these things are now being binned for high and low clock speed potential. When you think about it, there's no point in slapping a potential high-end chip on a lower-grade product when it is likely not to be overclocked by its owner. Conversely, if your high-grade products contain only the higher-grade chips, the public are more likely to get larger overclocks and thus you get larger publicity where it really matters. This could really do a lot for their reputation if they were to roll it out throughout their product lineup...



Kenshai said:


> I'm not trying to start flaming, I was just stating that the cards are underclocked and they are advertising some crazy headroom. The simple math is if the cards were put at 850 core and 1200 memory that the 5870 has, the percentages wouldn't seem as outrageous.



Well no kidding, but you could say that for any product from any manufacturer. In fact they're blatantly requiring that AIBs use memory rated much higher than they intend to clock it. There is nothing wrong with this, especially given the ease with which the average user can overclock these things.


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 17, 2009)

Kenshai said:


> I'm not trying to start flaming, I was just stating that the cards are underclocked and they are advertising some crazy headroom. The simple math is if the cards were put at 850 core and 1200 memory that the 5870 has, the percentages wouldn't seem as outrageous.



I wasn't talking about you, i was talking about Overclocking101. We really don't need antagonizers here. I was just trying to tell them to quit with the talk about How Nvidia is bad etc when TBH both companies have made great products for their timelines.


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 17, 2009)

Sasqui said:


> I haven't even opened my 5850 and I'm selling it.



WHY!?


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## Binge (Nov 17, 2009)

I give it to ATI, this exceeds my expectations of them


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## Polarman (Nov 17, 2009)

That multipoint fan control thingy sounds interesting.

Will this be released at the same time as Cat's 9.11?


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## Kenshai (Nov 17, 2009)

Polarman said:


> That multipoint fan control thingy sounds interesting.
> 
> Will this be released at the same time as Cat's 9.11?



Btarunr said NDA lifts on the 19th, so I assume the card will be available around then as well at the new drivers.


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## happita (Nov 17, 2009)

All I gotta say is.....availability. Check the current 58xx series...newegg has none of them in stock, its a shame. I could only wonder how many of these cards will be distributed to retailers and e-tailers. Probably not much, just so they can get a rise in demand so they can justify a price increase because of the lack of competition atm. :shadedshu


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## vaiopup (Nov 17, 2009)

What sort of money are we talking about with these things?


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## jaredpace (Nov 17, 2009)

some more from CZgamer:


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## TooFast (Nov 17, 2009)

The clocks are lower for one reason! POWER not everbody needs to play cod4 @ 100000fps. Its good enough to play any game at any res, but if you need more its ready to roll hard @1ghz.


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## Kantastic (Nov 17, 2009)

Binge said:


> I give it to ATI, this exceeds my expectations of them



You're the first person that came to mind when I saw this thread.


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## Marineborn (Nov 17, 2009)

hey whats the 295 looking like so small down there, now this is what i call fair no longer a single gpu against a duel gpu, nows its a duel gpu against a duel gpu, apples to apples baba! WHAT WHAT, where you at. lol and i dont care if its next gen! lol, im buying one of these, as soon as they come out

i like on the graph for the hawx test for the nvidia bar it just says FAIL! lol that made me laugh


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## WarEagleAU (Nov 17, 2009)

This is just a bad ass card with an awesome stock cooler. FINALLY!


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## Binge (Nov 17, 2009)

Kantastic said:


> You're the first person that came to mind when I saw this thread.



I'm not unreasonable when all the pieces are laid out on the table.


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## nugzo (Nov 17, 2009)

Ive been waiting for weeks for 3-5870's to come available somewhere. Maybe 2-5970's would be a better way to go......


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## phanbuey (Nov 17, 2009)

is anyone else noticing the 5870 CF kicking the crap out of the 5890 in the bottom graphs?  Thing better OC... otherwise it would get eaten alive by the dual card setups.


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## devguy (Nov 17, 2009)

Yeah, I assume that clocking the core and memory up higher will also increase the power drawn.  Since they had a target limit (say 300), they set it to the nearest "nice" number below there.  So, while it may very well run faster (maybe even at acceptable temperatures), it is up to the user to draw the extra power to achieve it.



phanbuey said:


> is anyone else noticing the 5870 CF kicking the crap out of the 5890 in the bottom graphs?



Higher stock clocks + finished drivers on 5870s.  We'll see.  Although in the end, I'd expect to see the 5970 (I assume you meant that and not 5890) perform in between 2x5850, and 2x5870.


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## phanbuey (Nov 17, 2009)

devguy said:


> Yeah, I assume that clocking the core and memory up higher will also increase the power drawn.  Since they had a target limit (say 300), they set it to the nearest "nice" number below there.  So, while it may very well run faster (maybe even at acceptable temperatures), it is up to the user to draw the extra power to achieve it.
> 
> 
> 
> Higher stock clocks + finished drivers on 5870s.  We'll see.  Although in the end, I'd expect to see the 5970 (I assume you meant that and not 5890) perform in between 2x5850, and 2x5870.



yeah I meant 5970 lol...  Im wondering if they are touting the OC performance beacause of the super low stock clocks.  It has that "marketing" smell to it...

Still an amazing card though.  Just in time for the Christmas rush too.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Nov 17, 2009)

I been figuring this all along, I mean they are 5870 cores, I would assume they arent binned down, once water blocks are on these, they should clock no different than a 5870.


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## EarlZ (Nov 17, 2009)

Wow, if all of the 5970's OC to 1Ghz core and 5Ghz memory then i might consider switching over back to ATI, but i really doubt they can pull this off.. still hoping though..


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## Kenshai (Nov 17, 2009)

EarlZ said:


> Wow, if all of the 5970's OC to 1Ghz core and 5Ghz memory then i might consider switching over back to ATI, but i really doubt they can pull this off.. still hoping though..



They didn't say the cards WOULD clock that high they simply allowed catalyst software to allow overclocking that high.


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## sideeffect (Nov 17, 2009)

I will believe it when I see it.

1 x 8 pin = 150 watts
1 x 6 pin = 75 watts
PCI-e power = 75 watts 

300 watts total and max power usage at stock clocks is 294 watts.  So where are the extra watts coming from to overclock this thing?  There is a reason that they downclocked it to only 5850 speeds.


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## wahdangun (Nov 17, 2009)

WOW, just wow i'm really speechless right now


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## Relayer (Nov 17, 2009)

I think the slower clocks are because of 1; power draw and 2; that's all they need to beat the 295. This then leaves lots of room for consumer and, probably more importantly, partner overclocking.

A question for those who know these things... With an 8+6 pin connectors would that be enough to supply 1.3v to each GPU? Just thinking about the ASUS voltage tweek cards and reading that 1.3v is about the practical limit. Or should someone who seriously wants to OC this card wait until someone comes out with one that has 8+8 pin connectors?


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## Nick89 (Nov 17, 2009)

Looks like they went high end with the cooler this time. 

Giant vapor chamber FTW.


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## inferKNOX (Nov 17, 2009)

happita said:


> All I gotta say is.....availability. Check the current 58xx series...newegg has none of them in stock, its a shame. I could only wonder how many of these cards will be distributed to retailers and e-tailers. Probably not much, just so they can get a rise in demand so they can justify a price increase because of the lack of competition atm. :shadedshu


I really doubt that. ATi would want these cards to flood the market whilst nVidia is still without a DX11 competitor. The lack of availability is undoubtedly a result of the sheer demand. I don't think even ATi expected the market to go this much in their favour and didn't quite manage the stocks they needed. Let's hope ATi keeps giving the people what they want, and quicker if at all possible.


Kantastic said:


> You're the first person that came to mind when I saw this thread.


+1

If ATi has released cards on this level now, and the rumors of them holding GT300 killers (5790s, 5890s & 5990s) in hand are true, waiting for their nVidia, in order to counter-launch, those must be just beyond words!
Just yesterday there were celebrations about the first GPU with TeraFLOP performance, now we're already at 5!


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## W1zzard (Nov 17, 2009)

sideeffect said:


> I will believe it when I see it.
> 
> 1 x 8 pin = 150 watts
> 1 x 6 pin = 75 watts
> ...



those numbers are no hard limit.. given a decent psu (any) you can easily overdraw the external power connectors without any harm. 150w from a single 6 pin is no problem.
if an intel cpu is specced to 3 ghz and you can run it at 4.5g you dont ask "where do the mhz come from?"


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## wolf (Nov 17, 2009)

This is the best news about the 5970 yet, still waiting on price....

While OC headroom does seem gimmicky, its good to know for the enthusiasts out there (me )

also good to know solidly from ATi themselves 5870CF is decently superior as of yet, and god I hope they drop prices on the 58's to release this at $499, that would MAKE MY DAY.


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## bogie (Nov 17, 2009)

This is begging for a danger den water block!!!

Gonna be mega fast! Anyone know uk prices yet?


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## zCexVe (Nov 17, 2009)

Sw33t!!!! Im waiting till w1zz's review pops up XD


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## laszlo (Nov 17, 2009)

good job amd all i can say


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 17, 2009)

You know what would be more awesome than this?! If there were actual 58XX series cards on the F*#KING market to be bought!


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## TAViX (Nov 17, 2009)

Nice! I'm curious about nVIDIA response. When it will come... Next year, or next millennium...


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## btarunr (Nov 17, 2009)

Kenshai said:


> Btarunr said NDA lifts on the 19th, so I assume the card will be available around then as well at the new drivers.



Make that 18th


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## Izliecies (Nov 17, 2009)

Hey, I thought that videocards are OCed with ATI Catalyst, not AMD OverDrive! Isn't that right?


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 17, 2009)

Izliecies said:


> Hey, I thought that videocards are OCed with ATI Catalyst, not AMD OverDrive! Isn't that right?



Both from what I remember. Ether or.


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## Imsochobo (Nov 17, 2009)

Amd clock tool is VERY reccomended download.

You can monitor min, avg, max temp of EACH core, and clock.

Its from AMD, and is widely available.

Then set your clocks in CCC


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## HossHuge (Nov 17, 2009)

Anyone know how long this it is?


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## FreedomEclipse (Nov 17, 2009)

If the price is good - I might be getting one of these instead of a 5870


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## sideeffect (Nov 17, 2009)

W1zzard said:


> those numbers are no hard limit.. given a decent psu (any) you can easily overdraw the external power connectors without any harm. 150w from a single 6 pin is no problem.
> if an intel cpu is specced to 3 ghz and you can run it at 4.5g you dont ask "where do the mhz come from?"



No offence but that analogy sucks  

The extra MHz on the CPU comes from giving it more power.  You could perhaps lower the Vcore and add MHz and keep at the same power draw but you are not getting something for nothing.  You are limited by the amount of power + how efficiently the device can utilise the available power.

You can draw 150w from a single 6 pin no problem?  Evidence please because from what I have seen with my ATI 4850 which had 1 x 6 pin this was not the case and it was power starved.  I was using a 1KW OCZ ProXtreme to power it as well.


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 17, 2009)

sideeffect said:


> No offence but that analogy sucks
> 
> The extra MHz on the CPU comes from giving it more power.  You could perhaps lower the Vcore and add MHz and keep at the same power draw but you are not getting something for nothing.  You are limited by the amount of power + how efficiently the device can utilise the available power.
> 
> You can draw 150w from a single 6 pin no problem?  Evidence please because from what I have seen with my ATI 4850 which had 1 x 6 pin this was not the case and it was power starved.  I was using a 1KW OCZ ProXtreme to power it as well.



 Oh man you just pwnd yourself nasty!


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## sideeffect (Nov 17, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Oh man you just pwnd yourself nasty!



Do you even know what we were talking about?


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## mechtech (Nov 17, 2009)

HossHuge said:


> Anyone know how long this it is?



loooonnnnngggg lol


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## AddSub (Nov 17, 2009)

sideeffect said:


> I will believe it when I see it.



Same here. 

Source? "XtremeSystems Forums"? I'm reserving my judgment for after this thing is benchmarked by some respected sites like iXBT Labs or similar.


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 17, 2009)

sideeffect said:


> Do you even know what we were talking about?



Yeah I know what your talking about. I also know W1zz is the owner of the website and has a vast amount of experience and wouldn't be talking out of his ass. I am far more inclined to take his word over yours.

Saying his "analogy sucks" isnt the smartest thing to do.


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## phanbuey (Nov 17, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Yeah I know what your talking about. I also know W1zz is the owner of the website and has a vast amount of experience and wouldn't be talking out of his ass. I am far more inclined to take his word over yours.
> 
> Saying his "analogy sucks" isnt the smartest thing to do.



+1 to that... 

Sideeffect, Just how was that 4850 was "power starved"?  did you volt mod it? or just because you couldn't overclock it past whatever MHz you assumed that the chip was not getting enough power?

Ive seen 4pin cpu plugs melt with too much power going through them and I can attest to the fact that a plug will give as much power to a device as it draws until the PSU doesnt give it anymore/plug melts...

Maybe your PSU had a hard limit on the 6 pin of 75W... iDK, I know mine doesn't.


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## Zubasa (Nov 17, 2009)

Imsochobo said:


> Amd clock tool is VERY reccomended download.
> 
> You can monitor min, avg, max temp of EACH core, and clock.
> 
> ...


If there is no "OC limit" in CCC, I might as well use MSI Afterburner which is the tool of choice for me.


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## wolf (Nov 17, 2009)

Zubasa said:


> If there is no "OC limit" in CCC, I might as well use MSI Afterburner which is the tool of choice for me.



Seconded, if there is voltage control, clocks up to 1ghz/6ghz, then Afterburner is already perfect to take care of that. tool of choice f'sho'


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## W1zzard (Nov 17, 2009)

sideeffect said:


> No offence but that analogy sucks
> 
> The extra MHz on the CPU comes from giving it more power.  You could perhaps lower the Vcore and add MHz and keep at the same power draw but you are not getting something for nothing.  You are limited by the amount of power + how efficiently the device can utilise the available power.
> 
> You can draw 150w from a single 6 pin no problem?  Evidence please because from what I have seen with my ATI 4850 which had 1 x 6 pin this was not the case and it was power starved.  I was using a 1KW OCZ ProXtreme to power it as well.



power starved doesn't even exist .. power is a function of current and voltage, when you increase the current drawn, the voltage at your endpoint drops due to the resistance in the wire. if you draw too much power either the voltage drops below a value that the card's voltage regulations circuitry need to work reliable, or your wires will heat up and burn. if you want more detailed physics formulas let me know.

when i have a few minutes i'll try to power tomorrow's card through a single 6-pin molex


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 17, 2009)

W1zzard said:


> power starved doesn't even exist .. power is a function of current and voltage, when you increase the current drawn, the voltage at your endpoint drops due to the resistance in the wire. if you draw too much power either the voltage drops below a value that the card's voltage regulations circuitry need to work reliable, or your wires will heat up and burn. if you want more detailed physics formulas let me know.
> 
> when i have a few minutes i'll try to power tomorrow's card through a single 6-pin molex



Exactly. If the 4850 was truly "starved" for power it wouldn't run reliable OR wouldn't work at all. Also adding voltage can have the reverse effect on circuits. Maybe THIS is why it only had one PCI-E connector? 

If your PCI-E power cord wasnt supplying enough power I would look at your PSU. Also it may have been supplying the power but the power may have been "dirty". Watch them ripples son


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Nov 17, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Exactly. If the 4850 was truly "starved" for power it wouldn't run reliable OR wouldn't work at all. Also adding voltage can have the reverse effect on circuits. Maybe THIS is why it only had one PCI-E connector?
> 
> If your PCI-E power cord wasnt supplying enough power I would look at your PSU. Also it may have been supplying the power but the power may have been "dirty". Watch them ripples son



oh, ripples


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## W1zzard (Nov 17, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Exactly. If the 4850 was truly "starved" for power it wouldn't run reliable OR wouldn't work at all. Also adding voltage can have the reverse effect on circuits. Maybe THIS is why it only had one PCI-E connector?
> 
> If your PCI-E power cord wasnt supplying enough power I would look at your PSU. Also it may have been supplying the power but the power may have been "dirty". Watch them ripples son



adding extra connectors does not increase the voltage (parallel circuit). all it does is add more wire diameter which reduces resistance which allows more current per °C temp increase which allows more current to flow before your cables melt


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 17, 2009)

W1zzard said:


> adding extra connectors does not increase the voltage (parallel circuit). all it does is add more wire diameter which reduces resistance which allows more current per °C temp increase which allows more current to flow before your cables melt



It safety increases the flow of power correct? As each connection is rated to a maximum voltage/current?

What I meant by "only having one PCI-E" connector wasn't to increase voltage but to maintain the integrity of the power connection.


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## W1zzard (Nov 17, 2009)

yes, it is specified to a maximum current (google for awg 18), specified means you can run it outside of spec, a realistic limit is when the cables get hot to the touch, the physical limit is when the insulation starts to burn or melt->the wire touches some ground bzzzt


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## IceCreamBarr (Nov 17, 2009)

Does anyone find it odd that with the total power from the pci-e slot (75W), the 6 pin (75w) and the 8 pin (150w) that there is only an additional 6w left for overclocking (using their 294w max)?  I'm not sure what kind of overclock 6w will bring you but then again, does taking the card to the max power draw even sound intelligent?  By design, this card sounds like an overclocking dud.

Barr

EDIT: Oh, I see this is already being discussed - I guess reading only the first page leads to dupe posts


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## Robert-The-Rambler (Nov 17, 2009)

*As Far As Clock Speed Goes*

I think it is a way to save a whole bunch of money and avoid unnecessary warranty claims. The card already has 3200 shaders and whether or not AMD/ATI clocked the chip higher would not offer significant gains to almost any gamer at any resolution. I believe it is a logical business decision based on simple math. The card is so damn fast that if they underclock it a bit to avoid almost any cooling issues and power consumption issues then offer headroom for tweakers who realize they can't RMA it if it explodes then it is a win situation for everybody.


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## Romir (Nov 17, 2009)

The GTX 295 has a tdp of 289w and uses a 6 + 8 pin connector as well. It obviously doesn't have just 11w of head room as people have been overclocking it just fine all year.


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## Tom20 (Nov 17, 2009)

Seems cool!


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## OneCool (Nov 18, 2009)

TAViX said:


> Nice! I'm curious about nVIDIA response. When it will come... Next year, or next millennium...




Dont worry...big green is lurking and you better believe their soaking it ALL up.

I can only imagine what they are conjuring up. :shadedshu

Ati has its day now but we ALL know what this means....


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## btarunr (Nov 18, 2009)

OneCool said:


> Ati has its day now but we ALL know what this means....



That ATI is having its day 

80 minutes for the reviews.


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## Steevo (Nov 18, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> You know what would be more awesome than this?! If there were actual 58XX series cards on the F*#KING market to be bought!



Zipzoomfly had them for about the same prices and deals at the egg.


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## A Cheese Danish (Nov 18, 2009)

Damn I need to grab one of these!


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## mastrdrver (Nov 18, 2009)

btarunr said:


> That ATI is having its day
> 
> 80 minutes for the reviews.



80 minutes? Psh!

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-5970-review-test/


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## W1zzard (Nov 18, 2009)

sideeffect said:


> You can draw 150w from a single 6 pin no problem?  Evidence please because from what I have seen with my ATI 4850 which had 1 x 6 pin this was not the case and it was power starved.  I was using a 1KW OCZ ProXtreme to power it as well.



there is your proof. 13.29 A @ 12V = ~160W. hd 5970 running gputool stresstest. cable's not even getting warm to the touch





sorry for censoring out the box, it's not relevant for this, it's just convenient because it lets me connect 1 or 2 6 or 8-pin to 2x6 and 1x8pin.


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## sideeffect (Nov 19, 2009)

W1zzard said:


> there is your proof. 13.29 A @ 12V = ~160W. hd 5970 running gputool stresstest. cable's not even getting warm to the touch
> http://img.techpowerup.org/091118/Capture250.jpg
> sorry for censoring out the box, it's not relevant for this, it's just convenient because it lets me connect 1 or 2 6 or 8-pin to 2x6 and 1x8pin.



Thanks for running that test.  It is not typical of a 6 pin PCI-e connector though and the greater power draw was something that was allowed for in the design.  

"The PCI Express specification calls for a maximum provision of 300W for graphics, both HD 4870 X2 and HD 5970 max this specification out. With the Cypress GPU, though, we knew it would be require more power than RV770 becuase it was designed as a bigger chip; when designing the HF 5970 we had two options - keep within the specification and the standard infrastructure that exists (and tune the voltages and speeds accordingly) or break the infrascturcture and go beyond the specification. In the end we chose a hybrid - the default speeds are designed to fit within the spec and the default infrastucture, but we designed the board to facilitate higher current draws and allow users with higher quality power supplies to tweak the performance more. Can we guarantee OC specs? No, we can't, but we can say that the GPU's on those boards are screened to be high speed capable. "

Dave Baumann ATI



TheMailMan78 said:


> Yeah I know what your talking about. I also know W1zz is the owner of the website and has a vast amount of experience and wouldn't be talking out of his ass. I am far more inclined to take his word over yours.
> 
> Saying his "analogy sucks" isnt the smartest thing to do.



I never asked you to take my word for it try some independent research and thought.   A lot of people have experience that doesn't mean you should never question their information or results or ask for evidence.  I have a lot of respect for W1zzard and this website I didn't say he sucked but I still think the analogy was inappropriate.


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## pantherx12 (Nov 19, 2009)

My 3870 Pulls about 270-280 when I've got it over clocked, it only has a single 6 pin connector and the power coming from the PCI-E slot.

How can it draw so much power, 150+75 doesn't = 270-280.

Sorry for slightly off topic but it is sort of relevant to the PCI-E power cable discussion.


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## W1zzard (Nov 19, 2009)

sideeffect said:


> Thanks for running that test.  It is not typical of a 6 pin PCI-e connector though and the greater power draw was something that was allowed for in the design.



sigh ... it has nothing to do with the board .. you want me to run this with a 4870 x2 ? or anything else?


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## W1zzard (Nov 19, 2009)

pantherx12 said:


> My 3870 Pulls about 270-280 when I've got it over clocked, it only has a single 6 pin connector and the power coming from the PCI-E slot.
> 
> How can it draw so much power, 150+75 doesn't = 270-280.
> 
> Sorry for slightly off topic but it is sort of relevant to the PCI-E power cable discussion.



let's try another analogy (why is water so popular to explain electronics?).. take a garden hose .. run water through it at 100 psi .. works fine ... please note your garden hose is rated for 100 psi max. .. now run water through it at 150 psi... omg more water! and it doesn't explode. how is that possible?


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## pantherx12 (Nov 19, 2009)

Yes you can run more if you turn the tap higher, but I thought it was standardised so it COULDN'T allow more for safety reasons.


That's why I was asking how can it be possible.

Not because I don't understand how current works.


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## W1zzard (Nov 19, 2009)

your hose is standardized to 100 psi too but nothing stops you from running it higher, and nothing will happen if you run it at a reasonable amount out of spec


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 19, 2009)

W1zzard said:


> let's try another analogy (why is water so popular to explain electronics?).. take a garden hose .. run water through it at 100 psi .. works fine ... please note your garden hose is rated for 100 psi max. .. now run water through it at 150 psi... omg more water! and it doesn't explode. how is that possible?



Thats funny because my father was a weapons avionics expert and instructor during the Vietnam era for the U.S. Army. All his notes and lectures were based off of water analogies. I guess its something everyone can relate to. Water.

Anyway back to topic


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