# Microsoft Certification(s)



## reverze (Apr 10, 2010)

Wasn't quite sure where to post this, but I just figured I would put it here for now.

Does anyone here have any Microsoft Certifications for business purposes?

I'm currently a student majoring in Information Systems Management, and I'm debating how useful a certification would be for the actual job, and I guess even more importantly, on my resume.

If anyone has any experiences or suggestions, I would appreciate them.

Thank you for your time.


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## Kreij (Apr 10, 2010)

Many companies view MS Certs as a positive when looking at candidates.
The more you have to flesh out your resumè the better.


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## lemode (Apr 10, 2010)

reverze said:


> Wasn't quite sure where to post this, but I just figured I would put it here for now.
> 
> Does anyone here have any Microsoft Certifications for business purposes?
> 
> ...



Certs can give you more negotiating power for salary. However an MCSE alone isn’t enough anymore but will help regardless.

The more certs you have don’t necessarily mean you’re more qualified for a position…they just look really good on a resume. 

A college degree (bachelors at minimum) is something you should have as well. Masters is the new bachelors especially in this economy. 

A+ is something you should have as well.


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## Kreij (Apr 10, 2010)

As Lemode state, the more education you have the better.
I think that one of the most important things is knowing how to handle yourself at a job interview.
Be calm and confident in you abilities (but not arrogant).

Don't pick your nose.


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## reverze (Apr 10, 2010)

I started doing the A+ like 5+ years ago, but just never got around to finishing it. I guess I could look back in to that..

I would like to work on perhaps 2 this summer, but not quite sure which ones yet.

Any suggestions from personal experience? I believe I recall seeing one that had a very similar title to my major in its title.

As for a bachelor's degree, I'd love to get a masters... that is if I could find a company that would pay for me to get it. Which seems to happen more and more lately.

I'm also doing a major in International Business and a minor in German, and am currently studying in Germany for 6 months. So hopefully those help give a little bit of diversity as well.


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## reverze (Apr 10, 2010)

Kreij said:


> As Lemode state, the more education you have the better.
> I think that one of the most important things is knowing how to handle yourself at a job interview.
> Be calm and confident in you abilities (but not arrogant).
> 
> Don't pick your nose.



Haha, Yeah... The job interview is the hardest part.

Really plan on practicing this summer and reviewing some questions. I've gone through a couple so far with some pretty big companies (for internships), and they weren't the funnest thing I've ever done.


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## Kreij (Apr 10, 2010)

There is actually a good chance you will know more about your field than the person interviewing you. Keep it positive and don't let stupid question throw you.
If you are asked ambiguous questions, simply ask for clarification.

When I was interviewing many years ago for a job, I was asked to draw the schematic for a digital circuit ring counter.
I asked him whether he wanted up or down counting.
He said, "You choose."
I knew right there he would not be able to tell if my schematic was right or not, but happily drew one.


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## reverze (Apr 10, 2010)

Kreij said:


> There is actually a good chance you will know more about your field than the person interviewing you. Keep it positive and don't let stupid question throw you.
> If you are asked ambiguous questions, simply ask for clarification.
> 
> When I was interviewing many years ago for a job, I was asked to draw the schematic for a digital circuit ring counter.
> ...



Win.  Nice one!

Do you have any certifications yourself?


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## Kreij (Apr 10, 2010)

No.

I graduated with a degree in electronic. 
Got a job at GE (the interview above was from there).
Worked there for about 15 years and then bailed because I grew tired of the corporate mindset.
Got a job at a little mom and pop internet company, but that didn't pay enough.
Got my current job managing the networks where I work now.
Mrs. Kreij is a Massage Therapist and a Cosmotologist, so life is good.

Don't overdo it. Look for something YOU want to do, and be the best you can be at it.
In time with experience, you can write your own ticket.


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## brandonwh64 (Apr 10, 2010)

i actually have to do this as well. im going for a electronics engineering degree and then my major will be computer engineering technology. I need to go take the A+ test and take MSCE and get those out of the way


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## reverze (Apr 10, 2010)

I guess the A+ certification is a must then..


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## Loosenut (Apr 10, 2010)

Kreij said:


> As Lemode state, the more education you have the better.
> I think that one of the most important things is knowing how to handle yourself at a job interview.
> Be calm and confident in you abilities (but not arrogant).
> 
> *Don't pick your nose*.



Or the interviewer's because I... NVM...


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## Kreij (Apr 10, 2010)

Yeah, times have changed and companies want the paperwork. Especially if you are fresh out of school.
I would rather hire a TPU tech junkie who loves hardware than someone with a paper, but we won't go into that.

@Loosenut : rolf ... I didn't need that visual.


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## reverze (Apr 10, 2010)

Anyone else who has any of the Microsoft certifications and has some more input?


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## reverze (Apr 12, 2010)

bump


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## reverze (Apr 13, 2010)

bump


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Apr 13, 2010)

in for answers


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## xrealm20 (Apr 13, 2010)

I've gotten my mcse on server 2k3 and mctip for server 2k8 - the certs will help get you informed about the platform you will be working with, but keep in mind that regardless of the certs, nothing can replace experience. 

Certs help get you an interview and give you some idea of what you will be getting yourself into, and may help your pay grade, but some of the best admins I've known didn't have certs.


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## reverze (Apr 13, 2010)

I personally see it as a potential huge advantage for myself at least. I really can say I don't know anyone at my university with any types of certifications, so really I'd hope it would stand out on a resume to employers.

As mentioned, just not quite sure exactly which one I should look into. Been tooling on the Microsoft site and I'm still not quite sure.

And the prior knowledge and higher pay/negotiation in salary are of course are both huge pluses.


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## t_ski (Apr 13, 2010)

It kinda depends on what you are going for.  I work Help Desk right now (but hope to move up to Infrastructure Support soon), and I have MCDST, A+ and Net+.

One Microsoft certification gets you MCP (Microsoft Certified Professional).  I took supporting XP for that, then took supporting office for my MCDST (Microsoft Certified Desktop Support Technician).  A+ was the old one, back when it was two tests (one hardware, one OS IIRC).  Net+ was the last one I took, but was the hardest since it was nearly a full summer past the classes I was taking.

One tip: there are lots of free tests out there, although many of them are short.  Take a few of these to gauge your ability and see where you need to focus on.  Go back and take them again to see how you've improved.

Another tip?  If you do any MS certs, take advantage of the free second chance.  Bomb the first test and you can usually take it again free within a certain time period.


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## niko084 (Apr 13, 2010)

Certs don't mean what they used to...
The tests are easy to pass with enough studying and a lot of idiots have obtained them without really knowing how to DO anything.

The IT field is in a rough state, either you have a B-M degree + 5+ yrs of exp + a list of certs a mile long or you can have a rough time finding a good stable job. Lots of contract stuff around, but a lot of that's all short term, lots of companies hiring upstart companies and then selling out followed by massive layoffs.

Not to scare you away, if you are good at it and can make a name for yourself you can make some money and be stable but certs just aren't what they used to be anymore


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Apr 13, 2010)

cause im pondering going international and im wondering whats the best way forward


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## DaedalusHelios (Apr 13, 2010)

niko084 said:


> Certs don't mean what they used to...
> The tests are easy to pass with enough studying and a lot of idiots have obtained them without really knowing how to DO anything.
> 
> The IT field is in a rough state, either you have a B-M degree + 5+ yrs of exp + a list of certs a mile long or you can have a rough time finding a good stable job. Lots of contract stuff around, but a lot of that's all short term, lots of companies hiring upstart companies and then selling out followed by massive layoffs.
> ...



I totally agree. Certs don't mean shit if you don't atleast have a 4 year degree that is accredited first. Masters is yesterdays bachelors degree as far as job security. It is rediculous but that is the clusterfuck known as the USA job market. Before long we will need a bachelors degree to sweep floors like in japan.


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## Deleted member 67555 (Apr 13, 2010)

Sadly i think Location matters more than just about anything..

Around here they are upgrading Network capacities with Fiber optics while trying to bring in more business with such Bandwidth needs...

So you would think someone with a B-M could make some $ yet with a B your looking at $12 per hour...

It's not a joke I was exited to hear that several companies are relocating to Youngstown,OH from Cali and quickly disappointed to find network Admin jobs were hiring at $27,000 a year with 5+ years experience
But then again when you have 600 people for every job that's what happens...Smart educated people get paid less than greedy less educated business managers


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## reverze (Apr 13, 2010)

I'm working on finishing a bachelor, and people graduating at my uni and getting jobs in my major lowest starting salary $55,000 up to $70,000. Which I don't think is too bad starting..

I'm also doing a double major with International Business, to add a little more and be flexible with things..


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## niko084 (Apr 13, 2010)

jmcslob said:


> Smart educated people get paid less than greedy less educated business managers



That's why I'm currently doing both.
I manage a retail store on top of handling all the large customer networks, servers, systems.

To be honest I still can't wait to get done with school so I can get away from IT work.


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## Kreij (Apr 13, 2010)

Interesting Niko. I guess IT is not for you then.
I love my job.
I'm the entire IT department.
Building and fixing stuff, answering stupid user questions and teaching them how to do something (for the 10th time), coding, installing network cabling and gear, installing and configuring software. It just suits me perfectly. 
On the side, I now get to take my frustrations out on TPU users. 

Seriously, for me it just doesn't get any better.

I'm not in it to make big bucks. As long as I can pay my bills and have enough for beer I'm happy.


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## reverze (Apr 13, 2010)

I guess I'm going in the right direction with the manager position then..


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## Kreij (Apr 13, 2010)

reverze said:


> I guess I'm going in the right direction with the manager position then..



LOL ... yes, to each their own 

My advice to all is do what you love to do as you will be the best that way. The money will come.


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## Deleted member 67555 (Apr 13, 2010)

That's awesome advice Kreij


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## Kreij (Apr 13, 2010)

Oops ... I forgot to add that if you are doing what you love to do, you won't dread getting out of bed and going to work every day.


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## reverze (Apr 13, 2010)

Kreij said:


> Oops ... I forgot to add that if you are doing what you love to do, you won't dread getting out of bed and going to work every day.




But right now I'm dreading studying, and it's for a management exam..


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## suraswami (Apr 13, 2010)

reverze said:


> I guess I'm going in the right direction with the manager position then..



Certifications do have some value but not all.  But if you take the certifications and exams seriously most of it will be applied in interviews and practically in your job too.

I have few MS certifications and it has helped me in getting the upper hand when companies compare resumes, during interview and final selection.


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## reverze (Apr 13, 2010)

suraswami said:


> Certifications do have some value but not all.  But if you take the certifications and exams seriously most of it will be applied in interviews and practically in your job too.
> 
> I have few MS certifications and it has helped me in getting the upper hand when companies compare resumes, during interview and final selection.



Nice, thank you for the feedback.

Mind if I ask, which ones and what type of job?


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## suraswami (Apr 13, 2010)

reverze said:


> Nice, thank you for the feedback.
> 
> Mind if I ask, which ones and what type of job?



All M$ SQL DB Admin and Dev related (MCPs)


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## reverze (Apr 13, 2010)

Hmm.. interesting.

I know some SQL, and have had a class on it before. But not well enough. I'm going to have two more coming up next semester.

But it's definitely very related to my major. Maybe something I should definitely look more into..


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## Kreij (Apr 14, 2010)

One other thing (not exactly Cert related).
If you see an open position and you do not have all of the qualifications (like the required years of experience or whatever) send them a resumè anyway. 
You may not get a response, but it doesn't hurt.


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## reverze (Apr 14, 2010)

Kreij said:


> One other thing (not exactly Cert related).
> If you see an open position and you do not have all of the qualifications (like the required years of experience or whatever) send them a resumè anyway.
> You may not get a response, but it doesn't hurt.




Also a good tip, thanks.


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## suraswami (Apr 14, 2010)

reverze said:


> Hmm.. interesting.
> 
> I know some SQL, and have had a class on it before. But not well enough. I'm going to have two more coming up next semester.
> 
> But it's definitely very related to my major. Maybe something I should definitely look more into..



I would always say its safe to be on the DB side, because you won't see loads of DB software, but there are loads of front end programming tool that I can't keep up with.  And I love tweaking DBs and designing optimized DBs after all thats the back bone of most apps and information lives there.


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## reverze (Apr 14, 2010)

suraswami said:


> I would always say its safe to be on the DB side, because you won't see loads of DB software, but there are loads of front end programming tool that I can't keep up with.  And I love tweaking DBs and designing optimized DBs after all thats the back bone of most apps and information lives there.



Maybe I will shoot you a PM then if you don't mind with a few quick questions then..


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## Easy Rhino (Apr 14, 2010)

most people who have those MCSE and A+ certs are generally idiots. i don't mean to generalize but it has been my experience that they get those certs to make themselves look smart but they have the problem solving ability of that of a slug


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## t_ski (Apr 14, 2010)

Easy Rhino said:


> most people who have those MCSE and A+ certs are *generally idiots*. i don't mean to generalize but it has been my experience that they get those certs to make themselves look smart but they have the problem solving ability of that of a slug



These are usually the ones who throw their A+ certification around like it means their Bill Gates or something.  To me, A+ was just a start (along with my other certs).  It helped get me my internship at a local hospital, which I chose because it would look best for my resume.  I stuck around long enough to get a job, and took it because it would look great on my resume.  It's not the end though - no matter what it is, you need to keep developing.

One big thing businesses love is Project Management.  There are certs for that as well, but they tend to me more advanced (Six-sigma, etc.).


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## DaedalusHelios (Apr 14, 2010)

jmcslob said:


> Sadly i think Location matters more than just about anything..
> 
> Around here they are upgrading Network capacities with Fiber optics while trying to bring in more business with such Bandwidth needs...
> 
> ...



Very true. Indian immigrants totally ruined our local IT market. Free market means fresh off the boat with low quality labor for all. Hire two ignorant workers to replace one good experienced one that got paid triple. The immigrants don't know to ask for more just because they came from third world hell. 90% of our local tech jobs are occupied by flown in Indian workers. It would be fine if it was say 50% but it gets really bad when things sell out completely.

It is the nature of globalization. That is what is hurting the USA. Europe protects its job markets more and maintains a better balance in general although it still struggles to find a balance and is different from location to location. The USA used to protect its labor market until the rich got incredibly greedy. Sadly, both major political parties let it happen so there really can't be any finger pointing in that respect. In an unregulated capitalism, it is greed that governs all.


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## Easy Rhino (Apr 14, 2010)

DaedalusHelios said:


> Very true. Indian immigrants totally ruined our local IT market. Free market means fresh off the boat with low quality labor for all. Hire two ignorant workers to replace one good experienced one that got paid triple. The immigrants don't know to ask for more just because they came from third world hell. 90% of our local tech jobs are occupied by flown in Indian workers. It would be fine if it was say 50% but it gets really bad when things sell out completely.
> 
> It is the nature of globalization. That is what is hurting the USA. Europe protects its job markets more and maintains a better balance in general although it still struggles to find a balance and is different from location to location. The USA used to protect its labor market until the rich got incredibly greedy. Sadly, both major political parties let it happen so there really can't be any finger pointing in that respect. In an unregulated capitalism, it is greed that governs all.



what does this have to do with getting certifications?


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## DaedalusHelios (Apr 14, 2010)

Easy Rhino said:


> what does this have to do with getting certifications?



Of course I think you have stated before that you are libertarian so regulation is the opposite of what you would like. Sorry if it offends you. I know you are mod now so it is possible this will all be deleted. 

It has to do with the statement I quoted. Most importantly the part where he said: 



jmcslob said:


> Sadly i think Location matters more than just about anything...



That is why I also thanked his post and elaborated as to why in my local market it doesn't matter what certs you have but in other markets it may matter. I also explained why. If you feel I was incorrect in my assumptions, or what I gather from the situation please explain. I like to understand other people's perspectives.


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## Easy Rhino (Apr 14, 2010)

DaedalusHelios said:


> Of course I think you have stated before that you are libertarian so regulation is the opposite of what you would like. Sorry if it offends you. I know you are mod now so it is possible this will all be deleted.
> 
> It has to do with the statement I quoted. Most importantly the part where he said:
> 
> ...



obviously where you live will depend on what kinds of IT jobs are available and how they pay. sometimes having certs means something, other times it does not. 

migrant labor and the outsourcing of labor really has nothing to do with whether or not your certification means something to a potential employer. the value you can bring to a business is what a good manager looks for. your potential to learn new things and solve complicated problems is where it is at. you have to demonstrate that ability and a cert really does not do that when looking at the big picture. the world has gone global and there is a lot of talent out there willing to work for less than spoiled and entitled americans. protecting our workforce won't do anything but increase the cost of labor thus increasing the cost of goods and making us as a nation less competitive.


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## Mussels (Apr 14, 2010)

MCSE stands for "must consult (with) someone else"


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## Deleted member 67555 (Apr 14, 2010)

I can't say for certain but that Degree your going for will be far more important than any certification you will receive Anyone can go get certified but few have the degree's to go along with them..

I'm not sure if you are a member but you may be interested in a ACM membership..They have a really good job board that could give you a far better Idea of what Certs you may want for the Job Area you are looking at..

Not to mention an ACM Student membership gets you some pretty nice MSDN AA perks
http://www.acm.org/membership


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## DaedalusHelios (Apr 14, 2010)

Easy Rhino said:


> obviously where you live will depend on what kinds of IT jobs are available and how they pay. sometimes having certs means something, other times it does not.
> 
> migrant labor and the outsourcing of labor really has nothing to do with whether or not your certification means something to a potential employer. the value you can bring to a business is what a good manager looks for. your potential to learn new things and solve complicated problems is where it is at. you have to demonstrate that ability and a cert really does not do that when looking at the big picture. the world has gone global and there is a lot of talent out there willing to work for less than spoiled and entitled americans. protecting our workforce won't do anything but increase the cost of labor thus increasing the cost of goods and making us as a nation less competitive.



Easy Rhino, are you saying you would gladly take as many pay cuts as management could give you. All just to remain competitive if the country was flooded with people with your skill set even if you worked hard for a given company half your life? Knowing that now you must find a way to provide for your family? Then you would be Atlas, and you would most certainly shrug under the weight of it all. My job is protected as the private corporation I work for is owned by my family. I still care about my fellow man even though I hold a safe and secure position. There is something called a fair wage. Did you know if there was no minimum wage people would be paid even less. Also unions were started to protect our countries workers. Unions also need to be regulated though as they too end up overstepping their bounds like in the case of GM.

If they become citizens it isn't a drain on an economy. Requiring citizenship is the best policy. Canada does it to shield their market and it is working quite well. Sometimes other countries can get certain things right and we can learn from that rather than worshiping the free market. There used to be more nationalistic views in the USA like frowning upon such practices as outsourcing to save money by hiring people that didn't have citizenship. Aside from say the railroad industry where it was actually necessary. India is very nationalistic which is good IMO. If the tables were turned I do not believe they would allow it TBH. But that would be a good thing while showing a strength of character on their part. Also if the quality of labor was better it wouldn't be so bad. Most of their best techies must be staying in India. The problem roots from bringing the labor in until they get together and protest the low wages and then they send them back. It isn't the fault of the Indians. They are doing what they should by taking the opportunity when it is given to them. I have a problem with the screening process basically. It is the fault of the management. Bad management plagues so many companies. 

Nike treats many third world countries badly that are far poorer than India. They set up shop until the people request better benefits like cleaner running water and better sewage infrastructure for their families to survive. So when they leave there is a mass starvation lowering the population to the same if not smaller than when Nike set up the sweatshops.  That is the fault of immoral management that answers to no regulation. 

Of course there is also bad regulation like how people use the EU to force out competition but that would take 20 pages to fully explain. 

I am saying good regulation would make it easier for native citizens to find jobs in a line of work they have been trained for while keeping the money in the economy.  Therefore it wouldn't be drained so easily. Potentially effecting the OPs job market. Yes the certs are needed but not just the certs by themselves.
*Back on topic:*
Getting a proper accredited degree clears you for higher pay regardless. Most management positions require a bachelors or masters anyway. I believe the OP said he was getting a four year degree already though.


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## reverze (Apr 14, 2010)

Yes, four year in Information Systems Management and International Business.


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## DaedalusHelios (Apr 14, 2010)

reverze said:


> Yes, four year in Information Systems Management and International Business.



When are you set to complete it?(I have many years before I complete my degrees)

Go job searching and see if the positions you would like later ask for you to have those certifications in question. Then again you may have already done that.


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## Easy Rhino (Apr 14, 2010)

DaedalusHelios said:


> Easy Rhino, are you saying you would gladly take as many pay cuts as management could give you. All just to remain competitive if the country was flooded with people with your skill set even if you worked hard for a given company half your life? Knowing that now you must find a way to provide for your family? Then you would be Atlas, and you would most certainly shrug under the weight of it all. My job is protected as the private corporation I work for is owned by my family. I still care about my fellow man even though I hold a safe and secure position. There is something called a fair wage. Did you know if there was no minimum wage people would be paid even less. Also unions were started to protect our countries workers. Unions also need to be regulated though as they too end up overstepping their bounds like in the case of GM.
> 
> If they become citizens it isn't a drain on an economy. Requiring citizenship is the best policy. Canada does it to shield their market and it is working quite well. Sometimes other countries can get certain things right and we can learn from that rather than worshiping the free market. There used to be more nationalistic views in the USA like frowning upon such practices as outsourcing to save money by hiring people that didn't have citizenship. Aside from say the railroad industry where it was actually necessary. India is very nationalistic which is good IMO. If the tables were turned I do not believe they would allow it TBH. But that would be a good thing while showing a strength of character on their part. Also if the quality of labor was better it wouldn't be so bad. Most of their best techies must be staying in India. The problem roots from bringing the labor in until they get together and protest the low wages and then they send them back. It isn't the fault of the Indians. They are doing what they should by taking the opportunity when it is given to them. I have a problem with the screening process basically. It is the fault of the management. Bad management plagues so many companies.
> 
> ...



no, i am saying that if i can't compete in the market then i don't deserve to be paid higher than somebody who can. if you had more skills than your coworkers would you be happy making less than them? of course not. nationality has nothing to do with it. in fact, basing pay on someone's nationality sets a very dangerous precedent to a free people.


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## reverze (Apr 14, 2010)

So around ~$60,000 is a decent starting year's pay considering what some of the people are making throughout the US with similar jobs?


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## DaedalusHelios (Apr 15, 2010)

Easy Rhino said:


> no, i am saying that if i can't compete in the market then i don't deserve to be paid higher than somebody who can. if you had more skills than your coworkers would you be happy making less than them? of course not. nationality has nothing to do with it. in fact, basing pay on someone's nationality sets a very dangerous precedent to a free people.



I am not saying by nationality. I am saying by citizenship to stop a migrant drain of an economy. Read the whole post. 

If anything I am saying they should become citizens and make the same higher wages the native citizens do. It isn't fair otherwise as it simply feeds off the desperation and lower standard of living India has. That is why I gave the Nike example because they move on to more desperate people every time they end up asking for a fair wage. It also minimizes the benefit to everyone except themselves by using this borderline slave labor by north American standards. Like hiring illegal immigrants it lowers standards and hurts an economies wealth disparity.



reverze said:


> So around ~$60,000 is a decent starting year's pay considering what some of the people are making throughout the US with similar jobs?



That is very dependant on the area and the area's cost of living.


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## Easy Rhino (Apr 15, 2010)

DaedalusHelios said:


> I am not saying by nationality. I am saying by citizenship to stop a migrant drain of an economy. Read the whole post.
> 
> If anything I am saying they should become citizens and make the same higher wages the native citizens do. It isn't fair otherwise as it simply feeds off the desperation and lower standard of living India has. That is why I gave the Nike example because they move on to more desperate people every time they end up asking for a fair wage. It also minimizes the benefit to everyone except themselves by using this borderline slave labor by north American standards. Like hiring illegal immigrants it lowers standards and hurts an economies wealth disparity.



well of course they should become citizens. but what then, they will still work for less and you will still be upset at the immigrants who are taking "your" jobs.  also, you are confusing outsourcing and immigrant labor.


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## t_ski (Apr 15, 2010)

Talk about a derailed thread :shadedshu


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## Easy Rhino (Apr 15, 2010)

t_ski said:


> Talk about a derailed thread :shadedshu



daedalus says it has to do with certs...


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## DaedalusHelios (Apr 15, 2010)

Easy Rhino said:


> well of course they should become citizens. but what then, they will still work for less and you will still be upset at the immigrants who are taking "your" jobs.  also, you are confusing outsourcing and immigrant labor.



Now your are just implying stereotypes. Took er jerbs! It isn't really outsourcing or immigrant labor if they are citizens. Despite the fact they might pay to fly them in could technically be considered outsourcing. I think to work here someone should be a legal citizen. I think citizenship should be easier but illegal immigration should be more pursued as a crime. Everbody should be on the "books" and paying taxes. 

I wouldn't be upset at all because when you would live in the USA as a citizen you can't be sent back to your place of origin if you ask for a fair wage. The Indians would band together and demand a fair wage. Indian Americans have as much unity as the rest of us. In fact I would say they have a stronger since of community. I gather this from living in an apartment complex with hundreds of them and hang out with them at our apartment's various facilities(pools, weight room etc.).



t_ski said:


> Talk about a derailed thread :shadedshu



You probably didn't read the whole posts.

Explaining why some job markets can't be penetrated by certs alone is on topic. On topic in virtually essay form.

*reverze*, would you be open to relocating or are you trying to stay in Penn? Have you looked on Dice yet?

Easy Rhino, I think we better understand each other's views on the subject now. Thank you for the conversation.


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## Kreij (Apr 15, 2010)

All of the posts in this thread, by all involved, have been interesting and well presented without it turning into a flaming disaster. There has been no name calling or user bashing that I can see.

I appreciate that. 
As one of the mods' of this section I ask you to please continue and keep it on track.


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## Deleted member 67555 (Apr 15, 2010)

Not trying to sound like an idiot but
My bro said if you went for a military commission for say 3-7 years
you could likely make 100k or better under Military sub contractors..
once out and even while in 70k ..
He did 21 years and was gonna do 30 until a sub contractor made him an offer he really could not refuse...
Just thought i'd mention that


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## Msap14 (Apr 15, 2010)

A+ is general information, not needed to actually fix anything but it looks great and proves you know what you are talking about.  Bunch of kids at my school that have obtained the A+ through simply studying can't diagnose and fix a computer if they had instructions detailing exactly what to do.  A+ is rather simply and doesn't help your actual troubleshooting much but it is a global certification that anyone would recognize and is at the very bottom of the IT chain (the most necessary).

A+ is definatly the best thing to have certification wise. after that is the Net+ the net+ doesnt give you any specific title like the A+ would (IT Support Technician, Depot Technician, what ever the second test you take for the full certification) but it does give a great background knowledge of protocols and routing.

The Net+ is not needed to carry on with any other certifications but it is highly suggested.  There is a career tree microsoft has visually showing the routes taken to earn such titles as systems engineer, all which start at the bottom at compTIA's A+ which i will try to dig up and post.


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## t_ski (Apr 15, 2010)

Another good thing about the A+ and the Net+ is that Microsoft would allow them as electives for some of their certs.  At least they used to...


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## reverze (Apr 16, 2010)

How did you guys study for the exams? Is it best to just read a book instead of paying for some expensive courses?

Let's say for A+ and some of the Microsoft certifications.


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## digibucc (Apr 16, 2010)

studying for the exams goes two ways really...

the first, and one i recommend - is to use their included study courses and even buy one.   spend the time to learn the ins and outs of the material.  many questions are tricky so think about them as simply as possible, over-complicating the question and feeling smart is asking for trouble.

the second, worse, and more common way is to find "testking" or similar, and memorize the questions.  there are a few hundred possible and they will choose less than a hundred for the real test normally, so not only are you wasting 2/3 of your time memorizing, you are not actually learning anything.

they will direct you to good resources on their individual sites, or just google "a+ study guide" ... there are virtual workshops and everything to help you work through it all online.

and as others have said, certs are helpful and more important as time goes on, but they are not the be all to end all.  if you are looking for a job at a BIG company, a cert helps.  if you are willing to work for smaller companies (generally means more responsibility), than i have yet to meet one who knows what the certs are, let alone asks for them.

all things being equal, the guy with the cert will beat the guy without. but how often are things equal?  focus more on what you know and do well, and WANT TO DO, and the certs are secondary... at least to me  

i've been lucky enough to land some good jobs without certs, college, etc though.  I graduated high school, started a business, and now focus on a single client full time .... i might as well be working for them...

but i never have been asked for a cert, and i have worked in a few bigger places as well.  confidence and knowledge is more important than a piece of paper.


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## Msap14 (Apr 16, 2010)

reverze said:


> How did you guys study for the exams? Is it best to just read a book instead of paying for some expensive courses?
> 
> Let's say for A+ and some of the Microsoft certifications.



they will release a concepts packet that lists everything you need to know but not in depth. google that, read a book and make flash cards from the two is what i would do.

also do the practice testing, this helps a lot here are a few things to check out for getting ready for your A+

learnkey (onlineexpert.com)
Transcenders (not sure who makes them, its  a series of tests getting you ready for the exam)

they will also have lab books and what not giving you hands on experience


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## reverze (Apr 16, 2010)

Thank you both for the tips!


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## t_ski (Apr 16, 2010)

Stdying depends a lot on your current level of knowledge for the material.  If you are not familiar with it, you will probably need to take some kind of study course, whether that be through school or through online/paper reference.  If you are somewhat confident in your level of knowledge, you should just look into free certification sample tests.  I took the Supporting Desktop Application cert for my MCDST without ever taking a class on the subject.  I aced all the free sample tests I could find on it, so I wasn't worried, especially with the free Second Chance offer from MS.

Other certs I've taken I needed a little more to a lot more.  I knew a bunch about MS OS's, but little about networking.  Free sample tests are a great way to test your skill level, plus you get to see what type of questions they can ask & how _they _think.


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## reverze (Apr 16, 2010)

Definitely will look into those as well, Thank you!


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## Msap14 (Apr 23, 2010)

*Roadmap*


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## reverze (Apr 25, 2010)

Great find, thank you for this!


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## Msap14 (May 6, 2010)

http://www.mcmcse.com/

Probably the best online resource for certifications. They have study guides and tests.


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