# Intel Core i5-11400F



## W1zzard (Apr 7, 2021)

The Core i5-11400F is Intel's most affordable Rocket Lake processor. While its multiplier is locked, you can still adjust the power limit. Once we did that, the CPU ran over 15% faster and almost matched the Core i5-11600K. We also made an interesting discovery regarding Gear 1 vs. Gear 2.

*Show full review*


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## TheinsanegamerN (Apr 7, 2021)

I dont understand how Intel managed to screw up the memory controller. Pulling so much power and not able to hit the speeds that the 10th gen could hit. Rocket lake really is a half baked design. And still requiring a Z series chipset to hit 3200+ is lame. 

Still the 11400f is an interesting product, if it wern't for the 10400 being available at $160 and the 10400f being $155. Still I guess you could say the 11400f is worth it for a budget gaming rig. AMD needs something in this price range to compete after their 50%+ price hike for the 5600x before scalping.


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## Selaya (Apr 7, 2021)

wait what
I thought Intel enabled Memory OC on B560 and H570 boards ...


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## dj-electric (Apr 7, 2021)

You got blank CPU lid?
damn, luckily mine is retail package. 11700K and 11900K blank lidded tho (11900K had to be replaced from the kit, to another unit, that was surprisingly enough blank.)
Internally, I reckon Intel use mostly blank lid CPUs.


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## TheinsanegamerN (Apr 7, 2021)

Selaya said:


> wait what
> I thought Intel enabled Memory OC on B560 and H570 boards ...


They did enable memory oc, that is to say technically anything over 2666 is considered overclocked memory. You can only enable up to 2933 for non k skus on non z series boards.


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## qubit (Apr 7, 2021)

> What really displeases me is how tacked-together and unfinished the whole Rocket Lake platform feels. The BIOSes have numerous bugs that are completely obvious to anyone using them for more than 10 minutes. Maybe this is not Intel's fault, but since AMD introduced AGESA, a common-base software stack, things have gotten much better for the red team. POST times have always been good with Intel, but I'm now sometimes sitting at A2 (VGA) for 20 seconds, with an occasional double boot when changing a BIOS setting, which we criticized AMD for in the past. This whole experience reminds me of the first generation of Ryzen.


Oh man, the more I read about Rocket Lake the worse it becomes. It's a lemon for sure so I'm not gonna touch it.

I've got a friend who's looking to buy one of the lower end models, perhaps this one. I'll make sure to show him this paragraph. He might just think twice about it.

It's really something how my decade old 2700K is still running like a champ and feels snappy in everything. The only real differences one notices are that the mobo can't take NVMe SSDs, it can't hit the highest framerates in many modern games and doesn't have the latest version of USB - none of these are dealbreakers for my usage. It was a fabulous investment and I'm gonna make sure that whatever I replace it with is actually gonna be better. Ryzen is looking like that candidate at the moment. I'll wait for Alder Lake before evaluating the market again.


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## R0H1T (Apr 7, 2021)

TheinsanegamerN said:


> And still requiring a Z series chipset to hit 3200+ is lame.


Upsell ~ it's a *feature*.


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## voltage (Apr 7, 2021)

talk about a detailed review. Thank you!


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## Searing (Apr 7, 2021)

Honestly this is pretty painful. Another year without gaming improvements. I bought the 11500 just because I was bored and I knew the 11400 would do so badly and no longer interested in the 10400. The stock fan bearing is very loud, just like with AMD, so I still needed to buy an extra CPU cooler, though I was pleasantly surprised the newer black cooler was included. At least it looks better, so that is great for resale. Was hitting 100 degrees also without the power limit.

The 11400 and 11500 are clearly the best of Rocket Lake, but that is sure not saying much. In Canada I paid $270 CAD for the 11500 vs. $200 for the 10400, making it a silly waste of money, but I did put a PCIe 4.0 drive in there so it was worth it for me. Also this is a second computer and I can't find a GPU for it so I wanted the faster XE graphics (even if they are too slow also).

I would kill for a Ryzen 5000G series right now. Give us some cheaper 5600G as soon as possible. In fact when you read this review the sentiment is basically "come on AMD, we know you can do better, please release a product!"


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## crispysilicon (Apr 7, 2021)

Don't suppose you still have the test rig on hand? 






						ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO
					

ROG Maximus XIII Hero Intel® Z590 ATX motherboard delivers considerable performance and an optimized thermal solution, and includes AI Overclocking, AI Cooling and Aura Sync lighting.



					rog.asus.com
				




Shows newer beta BIOS that includes a microcode update.


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## Deleted member 205776 (Apr 7, 2021)

qubit said:


> Oh man, the more I read about Rocket Lake the worse it becomes. It's a lemon for sure so I'm not gonna touch it.
> 
> I've got a friend who's looking to buy one of the lower end models, perhaps this one. I'll make sure to show him this paragraph. He might just think twice about it.
> 
> It's really something how my decade old 2700K is still running like a champ and feels snappy in everything. The only real differences one notices are that the mobo can't take NVMe SSDs, it can't hit the highest framerates in many modern games and doesn't have the latest version of USB - none of these are dealbreakers for my usage. It was a fabulous investment and I'm gonna make sure that whatever I replace it with is actually gonna be better. Ryzen is looking like that candidate at the moment. I'll wait for Alder Lake before evaluating the market again.


A 2700K would've been the dream CPU to the Pentium G620 having young me. I respect you for holding onto it for so long when there's no need to replace it.

As for this review, I have lost the last bit of hope I had for this generation and this is why:






But hey, at least it's affordable and I imagine there will be more stock compared to AMD.


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## crispysilicon (Apr 7, 2021)

Alexa said:


> A 2700K would've been the dream CPU to the Pentium G620 having young me. I respect you for holding onto it for so long when there's no need to replace it.
> 
> As for this review, I have lost the last bit of hope I had for this generation and this is why:
> 
> ...



"A side note, if you are using XMP timings, with Gear 2, then make sure to double check that you're running with "1T" timing mode set in BIOS. Since Gear 2 halves the memory controller frequency, a delay of 1T becomes 2T (at Gear 1). So if your XMP profile specifies "2T" command rate, then setting 2T with Gear 2 would actually mean 4T. "

Running gear 2 anywhere close to where you CAN be running gear 1 is sheer stupidity. RAM needs to be a good deal faster than gear 1 can deal with to be worth it,.









						G.SKILL Announces New Extreme Speed Memory Kits Up to DDR4-5333 for Intel Z590 Platform - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
					

30 March 2021 – G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd., the world’s leading manufacturer of extreme performance memory and gaming peripherals, is elated to announce new extreme-speed DDR4 memory kits that push memory speed to the extreme limits on the latest Intel Z590 platform, including...




					gskill.com


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## dicktracy (Apr 7, 2021)

This is a much better buy than the overpriced 5600x.


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## Raendor (Apr 7, 2021)

TheinsanegamerN said:


> I dont understand how Intel managed to screw up the memory controller. Pulling so much power and not able to hit the speeds that the 10th gen could hit. Rocket lake really is a half baked design. And still requiring a Z series chipset to hit 3200+ is lame.
> 
> Still the 11400f is an interesting product, if it wern't for the 10400 being available at $160 and the 10400f being $155. Still I guess you could say the 11400f is worth it for a budget gaming rig. AMD needs something in this price range to compete after their 50%+ price hike for the 5600x before scalping.


You must’ve read it wrong, because even manufacturers advertise being able to set xmp profiles to 4GHz+ on b560 boards as a feature of these new midrange boards.



TheinsanegamerN said:


> They did enable memory oc, that is to say technically anything over 2666 is considered overclocked memory. You can only enable up to 2933 for non k skus on non z series boards.


You can set your memory on b560 to pretty much whatever your xmp allows. Not only up to 2933. It was the case for 10 series and b460 boards, but not anymore. https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-strix/rog-strix-b560-i-gaming-wifi-model/



dicktracy said:


> This is a much better buy than the overpriced 5600x.


Exactly. Paired with b560 board you spend less for both than 5600 only for pretty similar gaming results overall.


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## Why_Me (Apr 7, 2021)

The 11400F along with the 11700F are going to be the best of the bunch imo.


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## ozzyozzy (Apr 7, 2021)

Why ASUS Z490 Maximus XII Extreme for a budget CPU? Can i use H410 (H510?) 460 560 mainboards with this cpu or 10400f and get same Ram speeds? If i can't what Rams i should get max, 3000 3200 3600 etc


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## Why_Me (Apr 7, 2021)

ozzyozzy said:


> Why ASUS Z490 Maximus XII Extreme for a budget CPU? Can i use H410 (H510?) 460 560 mainboards with this cpu or 10400f and get same Ram speeds? If i can't what Rams i should get max, 3000 3200 3600 etc


B560, H570 and H510 boards.


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## ozzyozzy (Apr 7, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> B560, H570 and H510 boards.


Thanks, never saw H570 on local store lists before, i will check it. I was told not to buy H410 for 10400f but that person didn't give me any websites, guides or good explanation about rams etc, it was really confusing. Have a great day.


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## Why_Me (Apr 7, 2021)

TheinsanegamerN said:


> They did enable memory oc, that is to say technically anything over 2666 is considered overclocked memory. You can only enable up to 2933 for non k skus on non z series boards.








						ROG STRIX B560-E GAMING WIFI
					

ROG Strix B560-E Gaming WIFI motherboard features a solid power design, comprehensive cooling controls, PCIe 4.0, WiFi 6E, Two-Way AI Noise Cancelation and cyberpunk-inspired aesthetics.



					rog.asus.com
				



4 x DIMM, Max. 128GB, DDR4 5333(OC)/5000(OC)/4800(OC)/4600(OC)/4400(OC)/4266(OC)/4000(OC)/3733(OC)/3600(OC)/3466(OC)/3333(OC)/3200/2933/2800/2666/2400/2133 MHz Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory









						TUF GAMING B560-PLUS WIFI｜Motherboards｜ASUS Global
					

Intel® B560 (LGA 1200) ATX motherboard, 8+1 DrMOS Power stages , PCIe 4.0 support, DDR4 5000 (OC), Dual M.2 slot with flexible heatsink, HDMI 2.0, DisplayPort 1.4, SATA 6Gbps, 2.5Gb Ethernet, Front USB Type-C®, USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type-C®, Thunderbolt™ 4 support, and Aura Sync RGB lighting




					www.asus.com
				



DDR4 5000(OC)/4800(OC)/4600(OC)/4400(OC)/4266(OC)/4000(OC)/3733(OC)/3600(OC)/3466(OC)/3333(OC)/3200/2933/2800/2666/2400/2133 MHz Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory.









						B560 AORUS PRO AX (rev. 1.0) Key Features | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global
					

Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...




					www.gigabyte.com
				



11th Generation Intel Core i9/i7/i5 processors:
Support for DDR4 5333(O.C.)/ DDR4 5133(O.C.)/DDR4 5000(O.C.)/4933(O.C.)/4800(O.C.)/ 4700(O.C.)/ 4600(O.C.)/ 4500(O.C.)/ 4400(O.C.)/ 4300(O.C.)/4266(O.C.) / 4133(O.C.) / 4000(O.C.) / 3866(O.C.) / 3800(O.C.) / 3733(O.C.) / 3666(O.C.) / 3600(O.C.) / 3466(O.C.) / 3400(O.C.) / 3333(O.C.) / 3300(O.C.) / 3200 / 3000 / 2933 / 2800 / 2666 / 2400 / 2133 MHz memory modules


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## ftgf (Apr 7, 2021)

TheinsanegamerN said:


> They did enable memory oc, that is to say technically anything over 2666 is considered overclocked memory. You can only enable up to 2933 for non k skus on non z series boards.


Running 4000mhz right now in Gear 2 on a 11400 and a cheapie Asrock B560M. Works like a charm.


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## RandallFlagg (Apr 7, 2021)

Well, seems like RKL again is mostly boosting productivity and loses something in gaming, same as the other reviews and likely a result of the new MC / cache. 

So the interesting thing I see here on the 11400 is the wide flexibility by unlocking power limits. 

On productivity, the max power 11400F managed +15.2 to +17.4% higher performance than the stock settings part. 

That is absolutely huge, vaulting it above the 3700X and 9900K and in spitting distance of a 10700K and 5600X.   The 10400F by comparison, doing the same power unlock and BCLK boosts only added 3.2%.

The cost of course is the power consumption.  I'm not liking seeing a 200W max power on this chip, even if it is power unlocked.  On my 10400, I never got it to pull more than 90W for just an instant when power unlocked / bclk 102.5.  I'm sure under an AVX stress test it would've gone higher - but not a lot higher.

Still we are talking extremes, on Intel systems one can simply adjust the turbo boost power max to whatever your cooler can handle - and that can be done dynamically without a reboot.  I set mine for 165W, as that is what I determined my air cooler can handle on my 10850K and keep CPU below 85C under full load.   It's as easy as adjusting this bar, and hitting apply :






And the result can be this difference in performance, cooler allowing.  Reminds me of the 'Turbo' button a lot of PCs had back in the 80s and 90s.






Ironically, at stock settings, the 11400 is the coolest running chip on the charts, while boosted it is the hottest running chip :


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## Searing (Apr 7, 2021)

Come on guys, the 5600X is a next gen CPU (that is the most power efficient CPU ever also), the 11400f has zero gaming improvement vs the 10400f. The same people that tell everyone to spend $100 more of the K series are now attacking the 5600X, bizarre. The 5600X is the best and has a price to match. AMD's turbo is much more accurate, my 5600X runs at 4.85Ghz all the time with a free PBO, my 11500 gets 4.3Ghz at best for the most part. There's a pretty big gap. Since in Canada for example you save $100 on the motherboard not needing to pay for a Z board, the 5600X is still the best overall CPU. I can build 5600X plus B550 for much less money than 11600k plus Z590.


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## RandallFlagg (Apr 7, 2021)

Searing said:


> Come on guys, the 5600X is a next gen CPU (that is the most power efficient CPU ever also), the 11400f has zero gaming improvement vs the 10400f. The same people that tell everyone to spend $100 more of the K series are now attacking the 5600X, bizarre. The 5600X is the best and has a price to match. AMD's turbo is much more accurate, my 5600X runs at 4.85Ghz all the time with a free PBO, my 11500 gets 4.3Ghz at best for the most part. There's a pretty big gap. Since in Canada for example you save $100 on the motherboard not needing to pay for a Z board, the 5600X is still the best overall CPU. I can build 5600X plus B550 for much less money than 11600k plus Z590.



Nobody said it was faster than a 5600X.  This chip doesn't compete in price with the 5600X, the 11600K and 10700K do. 

AMD doesn't have anything competitive in this price range.


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## Why_Me (Apr 7, 2021)

Searing said:


> Come on guys, the 5600X is a next gen CPU (that is the most power efficient CPU ever also),* the 11400f has zero gaming improvement vs the 10400f.* The same people that tell everyone to spend $100 more of the K series are now attacking the 5600X, bizarre. The 5600X is the best and has a price to match. AMD's turbo is much more accurate, my 5600X runs at 4.85Ghz all the time with a free PBO, my 11500 gets 4.3Ghz at best for the most part. There's a pretty big gap. Since in Canada for example you save $100 on the motherboard not needing to pay for a Z board, the 5600X is still the best overall CPU. I can build 5600X plus B550 for much less money than 11600k plus Z590.


_Meanwhile ..._

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5-11400f-core-i5-11th-gen/p/N82E16819118264?Item=N82E16819118264
Intel Core i5-11400F *$159.99*

https://www.newegg.com/amd-ryzen-5-3600/p/N82E16819113569
AMD RYZEN 5 3600 *$224.99*









						AMD Ryzen 5 5600X 6-Core 3.7 GHz  AM4 CPU Processor - Newegg.com
					

Buy AMD Ryzen 5 5600X - Ryzen 5 5000 Series Vermeer (Zen 3) 6-Core 3.7 GHz Socket AM4 65W Desktop Processor - 100-100000065BOX with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				



AMD Ryzen 5 5600X *$299.99*


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## Lionheart (Apr 7, 2021)

Searing said:


> Come on guys, the 5600X is a next gen CPU (that is the most power efficient CPU ever also), the 11400f has zero gaming improvement vs the 10400f. The same people that tell everyone to spend $100 more of the K series are now attacking the 5600X, bizarre. The 5600X is the best and has a price to match. AMD's turbo is much more accurate, my 5600X runs at 4.85Ghz all the time with a free PBO, my 11500 gets 4.3Ghz at best for the most part. There's a pretty big gap. Since in Canada for example you save $100 on the motherboard not needing to pay for a Z board, the 5600X is still the best overall CPU. I can build 5600X plus B550 for much less money than 11600k plus Z590.



While yes the 5600X is the 6 core king it's still overpriced.


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## Deleted member 205776 (Apr 8, 2021)

Searing said:


> Come on guys, the 5600X is a next gen CPU (that is the most power efficient CPU ever also), the 11400f has zero gaming improvement vs the 10400f. The same people that tell everyone to spend $100 more of the K series are now attacking the 5600X, bizarre. The 5600X is the best and has a price to match. AMD's turbo is much more accurate, my 5600X runs at 4.85Ghz all the time with a free PBO, my 11500 gets 4.3Ghz at best for the most part. There's a pretty big gap. Since in Canada for example you save $100 on the motherboard not needing to pay for a Z board, the 5600X is still the best overall CPU. I can build 5600X plus B550 for much less money than 11600k plus Z590.


While the 5600X is a fine CPU it is 1. overpriced for a 6 core in 2021 and 2. barely in stock since AMD can't handle availability


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## Searing (Apr 8, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Wrong.
> 
> 
> _Meanwhile ..._
> ...



Wrong. Every time you see this, and then people must wonder why everyone wants the 5600X instead. Let me enlighten.

The 5600X is the best, period. Just like the 8700k was more expensive than the 1600.

I built two computers, one is $800 USD with an i5-11500. One is $900 with the 5600X. See how that works? Anyways not going to argue more, but the 11500 machine is going to be sold off. The number of BIOS bugs is unprecedented for an Intel machine, and Intel XE is FULL of bugs including website rendering having artifacts, and black screening on youtube videos. I'd kill for a 5600G right now. Sure saving $100 was nice, but I bought it before reviews and the fact that it isn't even 1 percent faster than last gen in gaming doesn't impress, I was expecting much more. Also hit 100 degrees constantly with the stock cooler (and I thought the black cooler would be neat but the fan bearing is loud, just like AMD) so I didn't even save money on the cooler which was the point. Combine that with lacking XE graphics and nobody would want it later.

Would you pay $900 for a 5600X machine or $800 for an 11500 machine? Exactly. Nobody wants to pay the entire price for the Intel one. It was an experiment as I couldn't get a GPU at the time. Also my friend bought one of the ebay 4000G processors and we did a comparison and Intel XE wasn't even half as fast. I have DDR3600C16 installed and the graphics performance is not good. No 1080p Overwatch or 1440p Runeterra even. You can play 720p titles though, some of them.


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## Why_Me (Apr 8, 2021)

Searing said:


> Wrong. Every time you see this, and then people must wonder why everyone wants the 5600X instead. Let me enlighten.
> 
> The 5600X is the best, period. Just like the 8700k was more expensive than the 1600.
> 
> ...


11400F = $160
B560 MB = $100
2x8GB 3200Mhz CL16 RAM = $80

Total: $340 USD


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## Caring1 (Apr 8, 2021)

I see the usual suspects have turned this into an AMD V's Intel thing again trying to support their favourite team.


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## Searing (Apr 8, 2021)

Does anyone actually read Techpowerup's reviews? On this site. So far his results have been horrid. He reviewed the 11900k, and the 10700k BEAT IT in gaming. The 10400f beat the 11400f in gaming also. I'm not pro AMD, I have a lot of both systems, but the performance was worse than I expected. I was just pointing out if you buy the 5600X you get the best 6 core CPU, period, and in terms of the total price of the system, you also don't pay much more. Those are the same arguments that made the 8700k my favorite CPU. It's not a lot more money, but I'm actually at the top and justifies me spending $1000 on a computer.

I see no reason to buy any Rocketlake at all, except that they are in stock and have iGPU. This is coming from someone typing this on a i5-11500 system. If we weren't in the midst of a silicon shortage I would have zero reason to have bought Rocket Lake.

Why_ME: "11400F = $160
B560 MB = $100
2x8GB 3200Mhz CL16 RAM = $80"   

This kind of nonsense is just trolling. I'm out of here. Has nothing to do with the how much a quality computer actually costs. Most people will pay $200 for the Intel CPU since they don't live in the U.S., the MB, I bought the cheapest one it was $150 CAD ($120 USD) and good ram has jumped up to $140 CAD for two. Then you add a case and psu and storage and GPU. Look at my sig for example. The 11500 computer is going straight to craigslist, not interested in keeping it. I LOVE THE CORSAIR 4000X WHITE case, omg, it is so amazing. Switching all my computers to that case.


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## ftgf (Apr 8, 2021)

Searing said:


> Wrong. Every time you see this, and then people must wonder why everyone wants the 5600X instead. Let me enlighten.
> 
> The 5600X is the best, period. Just like the 8700k was more expensive than the 1600.
> 
> ...


This is so full of BS. The conversation was about the 11400f price point. Now you mention the 11500. Now it's about the iGPU which the 5600x doesn't even have. As someone pointed out you can get CPU, mobo, and ram for practically the same cost as the 5600x by itself so I don't know how you're only $100 apart. Now I can take that all but when I know you're entirely BSing is when you mention the cooling. On the 11400 even with Base Boost at 125W with the stock cooler it doesn't even reach the mid 80s at max all core turbo indefinitely. Yes it's not super quiet but it's included and not too bad for what it is. I don't see the 11500 being that much hotter. Anyways it's a great little budget setup. It's nice that you like your 5600X but it's an entirely different price point.


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## Searing (Apr 8, 2021)

ftgf said:


> This is so full of BS. The conversation was about the 11400f price point. Now you mention the 11500. Now it's about the iGPU which the 5600x doesn't even have. As someone pointed out you can get CPU, mobo, and ram for practically the same cost as the 5600x by itself so I don't know how you're only $100 apart. Now I can take that all but when I know you're entirely BSing is when you mention the cooling. On the 11400 even with Base Boost at 125W with the stock cooler it doesn't even reach the mid 80s at max all core turbo indefinitely. Yes it's not super quiet but it's included and not too bad for what it is. I don't see the 11500 being that much hotter. Anyways it's a great little budget setup. It's nice that you like your 5600X but it's an entirely different price point.



When you build a computer you have to pay $800 to put that CPU in it, might as well get something better. I'm not comparing the 11500, I bought the 11500 as it was the same price for me as the 11400 in Canada. You need a GPU with the 11400f so you aren't building a cheap computer with it. Enough. It's not an entirely different price point to pay an extra $100 to get a much better machine. 10 percent more total system cost for 25 percent better performance in some cases, and even if not in gaming, at least you get the best gaming performance possible without paying the huge increase in cost for the 8 core CPUs. Simple to understand isn't it. Selling the 11500 system. I had no idea when I bought it that it would be slower than the 10th gen in gaming. XE graphics are buggy and it is already a week since release and Intel hasn't properly released drivers for it. And yes I have the new "release" from yesterday and it didn't fix the major issues.

Are we reading the same reviews? The 10700k beat the 11900k in gaming, the 10400f beat the 11400f. That's not a generational upgrade.


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## ftgf (Apr 8, 2021)

Searing said:


> When you build a computer you have to pay $800 to put that CPU in it, might as well get something better. I'm not comparing the 11500, I bought the 11500 as it was the same price for me as the 11400 in Canada. You need a GPU with the 11400f so you aren't building a cheap computer with it. Enough. It's not an entirely different price point to pay an extra $100 to get a much better machine. 10 percent more total system cost for 25 percent better performance in some cases, and even if not in gaming, at least you get the best gaming performance possible without paying the huge increase in cost for the 8 core CPUs. Simple to understand isn't it. Selling the 11500 system. I had no idea when I bought it that it would be slower than the 10th gen in gaming. XE graphics are buggy and it is already a week since release and Intel hasn't properly released drivers for it. And yes I have the new "release" from yesterday and it didn't fix the major issues.
> 
> Are we reading the same reviews? The 10700k beat the 11900k in gaming, the 10400f beat the 11400f. That's not a generational upgrade.



From the review "Priced at $170, the Core i5-11400F is extremely affordable. I'd even go so far to say it's the best entry-level CPU on the market today." "The Core i5-11400F definitely has enough gaming horsepower to feed any graphics card—the RTX 3080 ran great in our test system. Especially at higher resolutions are the differences between CPU choices small because games are more and more GPU limited. Given today's insane graphics card prices, every dollar you save on the processor will open up new GPU options for you." 

That's what you're not getting.

You can build it cheaper than a 5600X rig and that's the point. Sorry you pay more in Canada but that really has no bearing other than for a small market. It's cheaper and you forgo a marginally better experience. Not a bad trade off. Anyways I don't actually care about this stuff too much it's supposed to be fun. Some people forget that.


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## Searing (Apr 8, 2021)

ftgf said:


> From the review "Priced at $170, the Core i5-11400F is extremely affordable. I'd even go so far to say it's the best entry-level CPU on the market today." "The Core i5-11400F definitely has enough gaming horsepower to feed any graphics card—the RTX 3080 ran great in our test system. Especially at higher resolutions are the differences between CPU choices small because games are more and more GPU limited. Given today's insane graphics card prices, every dollar you save on the processor will open up new GPU options for you."
> 
> That's what you're not getting.
> 
> You can build it cheaper than a 5600X rig and that's the point. Sorry you pay more in Canada but that really has no bearing other than for a small market. It's cheaper and you forgo a marginally better experience. Not a bad trade off. Anyways I don't actually care about this stuff too much it's supposed to be fun. Some people forget that.


I 100 percent get that was already true about the Ryzen 3600 and 10400f. He's just repeating the same reasoning. When Intel releases a dog terrible CPU we can criticize it. No longer power efficient, bad integrated graphics (half of the 4000G series), no improvement in performance.

I like Wizzard's reviews but also his click baity "11900k review: the best gaming CPU?" title was not good. He could have titled it "11900k review: worse than the 10700k in gaming?" and it would have some honesty about it. Same here. "11400f: Cheap in the U.S., might be a choice for some".


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## oxrufiioxo (Apr 8, 2021)

Caring1 said:


> I see the usual suspects have turned this into an AMD V's Intel thing again trying to support their favourite team.



What do you expect we are still in a pandemic and people have nothing better to do....... I do wish people owned both or could at least play around extensively with both at this point it really doesn't matter what you own as long as you have a R5 3600 or above...... Even an R5 2600 is still pretty decent as long as it's running 4ghz or more with some decent Bdie.....

This CPU is priced well and is good enough for gaming it's a much better option over the outgoing R5 3600 other than the poor upgrade path an overall inferior platform but for those that want the best they obviously aren't in the market for a $160 CPU.... Intel is the sub $200 king right now and they are mostly fine up to about $400 sure their cpu use way too much power in certain scenarios but as long as people buying them know that who cares.


----------



## Searing (Apr 8, 2021)

oxrufiioxo said:


> What do you expect we are still in a pandemic and people have nothing better to do....... I do wish people owned both or could at least play around extensively with both at this point it really doesn't matter what you own as long as you have a R5 3600 or above...... Even an R5 2600 is still pretty decent as long as it's running 4ghz or more with some decent Bdie.....
> 
> This CPU is priced well and is good enough for gaming it's a much better option over the outgoing R5 3600 other than the poor upgrade path an overall inferior platform but for those that want the best they obviously aren't in the market for a $160 CPU.... Intel is the sub $200 king right now and they are mostly fine up to about $400 sure their cpu use way too much power in certain scenarios but as long as people buying them know that who cares.



Are we reading the same review? Worse than the 10400f, and the 3600 was already a solid choice vs the 10400f, nevermind the 11400f. Ryzen 3600 scores 29 percent faster in Cinebench. Oops.


----------



## Why_Me (Apr 8, 2021)

Searing said:


> Are we reading the same review? Worse than the 10400f, and the 3600 was already a solid choice vs the 10400f, nevermind the 11400f. Ryzen 3600 scores 29 percent faster in Cinebench. Oops.
> 
> View attachment 195766


If someone plans on using their build for video editing, photoshop, etc .. along with gaming then the 3600 is a solid buy.  If someone is looking for a cheap gaming build without the extras then the 10400F or the 11400F paired with a B560 board is the way to go imo.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Apr 8, 2021)

Searing said:


> Are we reading the same review? Worse than the 10400f, and the 3600 was already a solid choice vs the 10400f, nevermind the 11400f. Ryzen 3600 scores 29 percent faster in Cinebench. Oops.
> 
> View attachment 195766



Cinebench is about as useful as Userbenchmarks.......



Currently in the states it's $75 cheaper and generally better for that $75 you can get a much better board or much better cooler or a substantially better kit of ram...... For 10 bucks more you can get it with a gimped igpu so that it isn't a paperweight like the R5 3600 with the current gpu shortages.

The 3600 was a solid choice when it was around 180 and if they costed about the same it might be the overall better options for some but at it's current pricing it sucks.... Much better off with a 10600k That once overclocked can get you about 95% of the gaming performance of a stock 10900k... For productivity it just depends people should really be looking at an 8 core cpu in that scenario or above. I doubt people are buying cheap 6 core cpu with the primary goal of running Blender....



Why_Me said:


> If someone plans on using their build for video editing, photoshop, etc .. along with gaming then the 3600 is a solid buy.  If someone is looking for a cheap gaming build without the extras then the 10400F or the 11400F paired with a B560 board is the way to go imo.



Not really they are probably still better off getting the 10600K an overclocking it....


Again a lot of this depends on what your upgrade plan is if you want a cheap 6 core now and a 16 core once they are cheaper later than yeah AM4 is the way to go currently.


----------



## Why_Me (Apr 8, 2021)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Cinebench is about as useful as Userbenchmarks.......
> 
> View attachment 195767View attachment 195768
> 
> ...


10400F/11400F is a solid buy for a _'budget build'_.  The 10600K is going to require a Z490/Z590 board along with better cooling than the locked cpu and that all adds up.


----------



## ftgf (Apr 8, 2021)

Searing said:


> Are we reading the same review? Worse than the 10400f, and the 3600 was already a solid choice vs the 10400f, nevermind the 11400f. Ryzen 3600 scores 29 percent faster in Cinebench. Oops.
> 
> View attachment 195766



Cinebench...... My favorite game. 11400 beats the 3600 in every gaming benchmark Gamers Nexus tested at. Unless you have a different use case and a 3600 won't be it what does it matter here? You're acting like the budget AMD options are for people actually doing work...


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Apr 8, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> 10400F/11400F is a solid buy for a _'budget build'_.  The 10600K is going to require a Z490/Z590 board and better cooling than the locked cpu and that all adds up.



The B550/B560/Z490 worth using are about $20 apart in price last time I checked the majority of sub $150 are really bad and you better be pinching pennies in the first place if those are your only options...... Once overclocked the 10600k is quite a bit faster in gaming its primarily purpose as a cpu imho.... Honestly even with the fully unlocked 10400 I would worry about a lot of the sub $150 motherboards and even then their feature set is pretty terrible on top of that.

There are even a couple of decent sub $200 Z590 boards as well as X570. Again if you are pinching pennies that badly a 225 usd cpu doesn't make sense anyway... at that point a 10400 at $159 with its useable igpu makes more sense.


Regardless of platform and I've tried to tell this to people over and over don't skimp on your mobo and while that doesn't mean you need to spend $250 plus you will regret it down the line if you go too bare bones.


----------



## ftgf (Apr 8, 2021)

oxrufiioxo said:


> The B550/B560/Z490 worth using are about $20 apart in price last time I checked the majority of sub $150 are really bad and you better be pinching pennies in the first place if those are your only options...... Once overclocked the 10600k is quite a bit faster in gaming its primarily purpose as a cpu imho.... Honestly even with the fully unlocked 10400 I would worry about a lot of the sub $150 motherboards and even then their feature set is pretty terrible on top of that.
> 
> There are even a couple of decent sub $200 Z590 boards as well as X570. Again if you are pinching pennies that badly a 225 usd cpu doesn't make sense anyway... at that point a 10400 at $159 with its useable igpu makes more sense.



Budget boards get a bad rap but honestly there is good ones out there and they get get you 95% of they way there.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Apr 8, 2021)

ftgf said:


> Budget boards get a bad rap but honestly there is good ones out there and they get get you 95% of they way there.



I get it there are a couple good options the B450 Tomahawk comes to mind in its day but for the lower price you are getting lower layer counts, much worse Vrms, worse memory traces, worse sound, worse networking options, and unless you do your research it could limit support for higher tier sku you may be able to upgrade to on the cheap down the line if you for whatever reason need more cpu power and don't want to upgrade the whole system which could be substantially more costly in a year or 2 with ddr5 and pcie gen 5 coming up.

That's up the buyer to do their research and hopefully there is enough data on a particular board to make an informed decision.... Mobo makers don't send their budget tier offerings for review for a reason.


----------



## Why_Me (Apr 8, 2021)

oxrufiioxo said:


> The B550/B560/Z490 worth using are about $20 apart in price last time I checked the majority of sub $150 are really bad and you better be pinching pennies in the first place if those are your only options...... Once overclocked the 10600k is quite a bit faster in gaming its primarily purpose as a cpu imho.... Honestly even with the fully unlocked 10400 I would worry about a lot of the sub $150 motherboards and even then their feature set is pretty terrible on top of that.
> 
> There are even a couple of decent sub $200 Z590 boards as well as X570. Again if you are pinching pennies that badly a 225 usd cpu doesn't make sense anyway... at that point a 10400 at $159 with its useable igpu makes more sense.


You'd be surprised how many people on other sites that do builds are looking to replace older hardware yet are on a tight budget.  If you want a budget build for gaming and you have an older video card or you are willing to spend big money on a video card yet you have to keep the rest of the build at low cost then this is as good as it gets imo. btw that $40 CM 212 isn't going to handle an unlocked Intel 10th/11th gen cpu.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813119384?Item=N82E16813119384
ASUS PRIME B560-PLUS $119.99

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5-10400f-core-i5-10th-gen/p/N82E16819118132
Intel Core i5-10400F $149.95

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5-11400f-core-i5-11th-gen/p/N82E16819118264?Item=N82E16819118264
Intel Core i5-11400F $159.99

https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-RR-212S-20PK-R1-Contact-Silencio/dp/B07H25DYM3/
Cooler Master Hyper 212 Black Edition CPU Air Cooler $39.99


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Apr 8, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> You'd be surprised how many people on other sites that do builds are looking to replace older hardware yet are on a tight budget.  If you want a budget build for gaming and you have an older video card or you are willing to spend big money on a video card yet you have to keep the rest of the build at low cost then this is as good as it gets imo. btw that $40 CM 212 isn't going to handle an unlocked Intel 10th/11th gen cpu.
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813119384?Item=N82E16813119384
> ASUS PRIME B560-PLUS $119.99
> ...



I've looked at that board its pretty terrible.... The 212 should be fine for gaming though even with power limits unlocked though.


----------



## Searing (Apr 8, 2021)

Techspot review: What We Learned:
Is the Core i5-10400 worth the $182 asking price? Probably not, but hey, it's competing against the extremely aggressive and awesome Ryzen 3600. (...) As you just witnessed, when it comes to gaming performance the Core i5 processor is roughly on par with the 3600, while for productivity tasks AMD's offering is often up to 10% faster while consuming a similar level of power."

No the Ryzen 3600 isn't bad at gaming, not at all. And you can do a simple 4.4ghz OC and really crush the 10400 and 11400.


----------



## ftgf (Apr 8, 2021)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Mobo makers don't send their budget tier offerings for review for a reason.


It's the opposite of what you are thinking. It's because for most users the budget boards give them everything they need.


----------



## Why_Me (Apr 8, 2021)

Searing said:


> Techspot review: What We Learned:
> Is the Core i5-10400 worth the $182 asking price? Probably not, but hey, it's competing against the extremely aggressive and awesome Ryzen 3600. (...) As you just witnessed, when it comes to gaming performance the Core i5 processor is roughly on par with the 3600, while for productivity tasks AMD's offering is often up to 10% faster while consuming a similar level of power."
> 
> No the Ryzen 3600 isn't bad at gaming, not at all. And you can do a simple 4.4ghz OC and really crush the 10400 and 11400.


Why would someone spend more money on a cpu with integrated graphics (10400/11400) when they can spend less for the same performance (10400F/11400F).


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Apr 8, 2021)

ftgf said:


> It's the opposite of what you are thinking. It's because for most users the budget boards give them everything they need.



If all you need is a bunch of missing features then good for you..... Although full Disclosure I don't currently own a Sub $300 board so maybe I'm not the best judge.... I personally wouldn't purchase anything without a post code/bios flash but everyone has different wants/needs...


----------



## Why_Me (Apr 8, 2021)

oxrufiioxo said:


> I've looked at that board its pretty terrible.... The 212 should be fine for gaming though even with power limits unlocked though.


There's a few Brits _(seeing how the UK gets new hardware a week or two before the US these days)_ who have done builds with that Asus board and have nothing but good to say about it.  Meanwhile I've yet to come across anyone recommending a CM 212 for an unlocked Intel cpu such as that 10600K.


----------



## ftgf (Apr 8, 2021)

oxrufiioxo said:


> If all you need is a bunch of missing features then good for you..... Although full Disclosure I don't currently own a Sub $300 board so maybe I'm not the best judge.... I personally wouldn't purchase anything without a post code/bios flash but everyone has different wants/needs...


Fancy. Yup most users don't need or care.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Apr 8, 2021)

ftgf said:


> Fancy. Yup most users don't need or care.



I still stand by what I say don't skimp on a mobo the majority of people who pop up in threads having issues with memory/vrm thermals etc have crappy budget tier mobo....

With Asrock z490 and MSI X570 even their sub $200 boards had issues.


----------



## Why_Me (Apr 8, 2021)

oxrufiioxo said:


> I still stand by what I say don't skimp on a mobo the majority of people who pop up in threads having issues with memory/vrm thermals etc have crappy budget tier mobo....
> 
> With Asrock and MSI even their sub $200 Z490 and X570 boards had issues.


First time overclockers are the #1 threat to society from what I've come across on the help forums.  They get advice from friends, a youtube vid, etc .. and they start screwing with their bios starting with voltage.  It's like they see the light socket and can't keep themselves from sticking their tongue in it.


----------



## mak1skav (Apr 8, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Why would someone spend more money on a cpu with integrated graphics (10400/11400) when they can spend less for the same performance (10400F/11400F).


If they are building a new PC now probably they will go with the one that has integrated graphics because lack of graphic cards in the market (or they don't want to pay those silly prices for one at the moment).


----------



## ftgf (Apr 8, 2021)

oxrufiioxo said:


> I still stand by what I say don't skimp on a mobo the majority of people who pop up in threads having issues with memory/vrm thermals etc have crappy budget tier mobo....
> 
> With Asrock z490 and MSI X570 even their sub $200 boards had issues.



Hey I'm not saying high-end mobos aren't great. Used to be a big buyer of EVGA Classified boards back in the day when Shamino was with them. I'm just saying it's really not worth it 99% of the time for most users. New big shiny things are nice though. I get it.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Apr 8, 2021)

Searing said:


> Techspot review: What We Learned:
> Is the Core i5-10400 worth the $182 asking price? Probably not, but hey, it's competing against the extremely aggressive and awesome Ryzen 3600. (...) As you just witnessed, when it comes to gaming performance the Core i5 processor is roughly on par with the 3600, while for productivity tasks AMD's offering is often up to 10% faster while consuming a similar level of power."
> 
> No the Ryzen 3600 isn't bad at gaming, not at all. And you can do a simple 4.4ghz OC and really crush the 10400 and 11400.



I don't think that is what they said, but if they did then they are point blank incompetent noobs.  And so are you if you just bit into that without thinking about it. 

It is that kind of mindless repeating of outdated information that keeps people out there paying $200-$230 for 3600/3600X when it is just a plain stupid choice.

The 11400 destroys the 3600 and 3600X in games.  It also beats them in most productivity workloads.  And you can boost its performance 15-20% in productivity by simply moving a slider bar on power, an option that is not available to the 3600/3600X.  

So no, you'd need to cherry pick pretty hard to make any sort of a reasonable case for the 3600 and 3600X now.

These are not small differences.


----------



## gp_online (Apr 8, 2021)

Wow, intel is selling the same crappy cpu cooler like 10 years ago! This means to make profit with all costs and not to care about the consumer.


----------



## ftgf (Apr 8, 2021)

gp_online said:


> Wow, intel is selling the same crappy cpu cooler like 10 years ago! This means to make profit with all costs and not to care about the consumer.



Works pretty well with this CPU. Also the black is a nice touch.


----------



## 1d10t (Apr 8, 2021)

1d10t said:


> Even in a non-gaming scenario, this CPU struggled against previous gen.
> Now let see people buying these at $550 if they already mad about 6 core being $385.



I'm quite surprise my previous comment also applies here, big kudos to Intel for being very consistent with its products.






13% higher price with promised 19% IPC uplift, core for core, and yet we saw declining in performance. If anything could pull off this stunt, it was obviously them.
Still, this CPU offered quite attractive value, for those seeking to build a new. Anyone that still on i3 or i5 without SMT should look no further than 10400F as suggested by the chart above and many reviewers.


----------



## olymind1 (Apr 8, 2021)

Thanks for the review, it is a good cheapish CPU for gaming.

It has the same price as the 3600, but i would rather buy this over the Ryzen. Also like the performance of the 5600x, but not it's price. I would like to see a 5600 around 200€ but that's probably not going to happed. It's sad that AMD started overpricing their whole product line (on the gpu front too), they had some nice budget options, now they don't.

Even this 11400f can be a nice upgrade from my 2600. From my perspective it's not worth to upgrade to a 3600 even if i have a b450 motherboard for it (maybe if i could find a cheap one used, but then no PCI-E 4.0), the 5600x is out of question, i'm not paying 300+ € for an 6 core cpu in 2021. As others mentioned from the 5600x's price i can buy a decent b560 motherboard and i5-11400f and there is some money left too. For now i'll wait till prices are normalizing and maybe AMD willing to response for this CPU, but i'm not holding my breath for them anymore.

The only thing i don't like about the 11400f is it's price increase and small to none preformance uplift from the 10400f.


----------



## Arcdar (Apr 8, 2021)

Thanks for this extremely detailed review again in which you went "above and beyond" after finding some issues with the tier1 to document and point out where the issues most likely (99%+ chance) are coming from.

I really enjoy that you go "out of your way" and add other tests on top of your already wide range of tests you do in general for "small details" like those. Well done "Germaning" (as my international colleagues started to coin this type of "detail-oriented-getting-EVERYTHING-done" work ethics ^^)   



olymind1 said:


> Thanks for the review, it is a good cheapish CPU for gaming.
> 
> It has the same price as the 3600, but i would rather buy this over the Ryzen. Also like the preformance of the 5600x, but not it's price. I would like to see a 5600 around 200€ but that's probably not going to happed. It's sad that AMD started overpricing their whole product line (on the gpu front too), they had some nice budget options, now they don't.
> 
> ...


same here.... still struggling what to do with my 2500k ... still works decent but the missing HT is sometimes a pain in the butt (especially with Ubisoft titles..... AC and Division especially - those run perfect in most scenarios but sometimes just screw up for a few seconds - tested with a 2700k with exactly the same settings/speeds this also happens as soon as I disable HT but is completely non-existent with HT turned on while not changing anything else.....).

Was thinking of going the GF-Route (I build her a dual xeon e5-2900 nearly 2 years ago which runs quite amazingly well in all scenarios with her 2060s without the dual-cpu issues many have stated, but maybe she's just lucky ^^ ... or it's because she has an ASUSp10 board and not a chinese dual2011-3 board? ) but that starts to be less and less appealing (the 2011-3 are getting cheaper but for the cost of upgrading that way I could also go the 10400f with Z-board nearly?) .... so the 11400f looks tempting now, just like the 10400f still does. 

I guess I'll wait a few more weeks to see how the bios-situation is playing out and what is going to happen to the z490 board prices compared to the 5-series boards (where ram-"oc" ? is still allowed--- meaning you're allowed to actually run the DDR's at their speeds they are build to run at and not the max speed intel allows you to run them at.....) and then decide


----------



## watzupken (Apr 8, 2021)

Searing said:


> Honestly this is pretty painful. Another year without gaming improvements. I bought the 11500 just because I was bored and I knew the 11400 would do so badly and no longer interested in the 10400. The stock fan bearing is very loud, just like with AMD, so I still needed to buy an extra CPU cooler, though I was pleasantly surprised the newer black cooler was included. At least it looks better, so that is great for resale. Was hitting 100 degrees also without the power limit.
> 
> The 11400 and 11500 are clearly the best of Rocket Lake, but that is sure not saying much. In Canada I paid $270 CAD for the 11500 vs. $200 for the 10400, making it a silly waste of money, but I did put a PCIe 4.0 drive in there so it was worth it for me. Also this is a second computer and I can't find a GPU for it so I wanted the faster XE graphics (even if they are too slow also).
> 
> I would kill for a Ryzen 5000G series right now. Give us some cheaper 5600G as soon as possible. In fact when you read this review the sentiment is basically "come on AMD, we know you can do better, please release a product!"


The Intel stock cooler is no longer fit for purpose for a number of years. Intel adamantly sticked to this cheap design to cut cost. While the cooler was designed for cooling CPUs with 65W TDP, the TDP value is meaningless now and in this review, its drawing almost 50% over the TDP at load. I've recently gave a Scythe Shuriken 3 to my wife's brother because he mentioned his CPU (i5 9400) is running in the high 80 deg celsius with the stock cooler. After installing the Scythe cooler, that dropped the temp to mid 60s under the same gaming load.


----------



## Why_Me (Apr 8, 2021)

Arcdar said:


> same here.... still struggling what to do with my 2500k ... still works decent but the missing HT is sometimes a pain in the butt (especially with Ubisoft titles..... AC and Division especially - those run perfect in most scenarios but sometimes just screw up for a few seconds - tested with a 2700k with exactly the same settings/speeds this also happens as soon as I disable HT but is completely non-existent with HT turned on while not changing anything else.....).
> 
> Was thinking of going the GF-Route (I build her a dual xeon e5-2900 nearly 2 years ago which runs quite amazingly well in all scenarios with her 2060s without the dual-cpu issues many have stated, but maybe she's just lucky ^^ ... or it's because she has an ASUSp10 board and not a chinese dual2011-3 board? ) but that starts to be less and less appealing (the 2011-3 are getting cheaper but for the cost of upgrading that way I could also go the 10400f with Z-board nearly?) .... so the 11400f looks tempting now, just like the 10400f still does.
> 
> I guess I'll wait a few more weeks to see how the bios-situation is playing out and what is going to happen to the z490 board prices compared to the 5-series boards (where ram-"oc" ? is still allowed--- meaning you're allowed to actually run the DDR's at their speeds they are build to run at and not the max speed intel allows you to run them at.....) and then decide


Another option without breaking the bank is a B560 board paired up with a 10700F and 3200mhz RAM.  That cpu runs neck and neck with the 5600X in games.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...8070110700f_core_i7_10700f_processor_16m.html
Intel Core i7-10700F $269.99









						Intel Core i7-10700 vs Core i7-10700K Review: Is 65W Comet Lake an Option?
					






					www.anandtech.com


----------



## watzupken (Apr 8, 2021)

olymind1 said:


> Thanks for the review, it is a good cheapish CPU for gaming.
> 
> It has the same price as the 3600, but i would rather buy this over the Ryzen. Also like the preformance of the 5600x, but not it's price. I would like to see a 5600 around 200€ but that's probably not going to happed. It's sad that AMD started overpricing their whole product line (on the gpu front too), they had some nice budget options, now they don't.
> 
> ...


If you are only looking at it mostly from a gaming perspective, I feel Comet Lake is still a good alternative to Rocket Lake since its cheaper without losing out in terms of gaming performance. To be fair, while AMD don't have a cheaper 6 cores processor unlike Intel, but considering its an unlocked processor, i.e. able to OC, the main competition should be the 11600K.


----------



## Arcdar (Apr 8, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Another option without breaking the bank is a B560 board paired up with a 10700F and 3200mhz RAM.  That cpu runs neck and neck with the 5600X in games.
> 
> https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...8070110700f_core_i7_10700f_processor_16m.html
> Intel Core i7-10700F $269.99
> ...


yes, that would be an option but I'd still like to keep the option to later upgrade to a K-variant if needed at some point / if I need more performance next year or so which won't happen on a B-Board. I'd rather go the xx400f route with a Z-board (490 most likely) to have those options instead of having to switch board and cpu again at the end of next year.

The xx400f will be more than enough to keep me happy until the end of 2022 with what I need it for and then an OC-ed xx700k or so will keep the system running for another 1-2 years most likely . That's the way I ran with my current setup: Asus gene-z with 2400 and later 2500k oc-ed which, by far outlived it's expectations. I don't expect this setup to last "that long", but it'd be a valid option without planning to switch the board also again next time I'd need "just a bit more juice" ^^


(this -locked upgrade-path- is also the main reason I don't want to use the 2011-3 variant anymore, even though I'm torn to build a 2698v3 dual setup, not because it's the fastest out there but it would just be .... my thing ^^ ... not cool/whatever just the tiny geek in me feels like that would be so fun to build/have with a custom-loop  )


----------



## olymind1 (Apr 8, 2021)

watzupken said:


> If you are only looking at it mostly from a gaming perspective, I feel Comet Lake is still a good alternative to Rocket Lake since its cheaper without losing out in terms of gaming performance. To be fair, while AMD don't have a cheaper 6 cores processor unlike Intel, but considering its an unlocked processor, i.e. able to OC, the main competition should be the 11600K.


True, the cheaper i5-10400f has even greater value. 

I don't have anything against OC-ing, but sometimes expectations and real world results can be different, like my heavily anti-OC Ryzen 2600 which is unlocked but isn't stable above 3.9 GHz in a B450 Tomahawk motherboard with a Alpenföhn Brocken 3 on it.


----------



## Raendor (Apr 8, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Another option without breaking the bank is a B560 board paired up with a 10700F and 3200mhz RAM.  That cpu runs neck and neck with the 5600X in games.
> 
> https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...8070110700f_core_i7_10700f_processor_16m.html
> Intel Core i7-10700F $269.99
> ...


That's a good one actually. Is it really possible to set 10700f to work with 3200 RAM? Thought it had a limit of 2993 on b460 and that it would also apply for b560, while only 11 series can set XMP to whatever it's running at.


----------



## Why_Me (Apr 8, 2021)

Raendor said:


> That's a good one actually. Is it really possible to set 10700f to work with 3200 RAM? Thought it had a limit of 2993 on b460 and that it would also apply for b560, while only 11 series can set XMP to whatever it's running at.


B560 boards allow for memory OC.  

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/intel-core-i5-11400f.280455/#post-4495808   <--- a few examples in that post.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i5-10400f/15.html   <--- green highlight is the 10400F w/3200Mhz RAM.


----------



## qubit (Apr 8, 2021)

qubit said:


> I've got a friend who's looking to buy one of the lower end models, perhaps this one. I'll make sure to show him this paragraph. He might just think twice about it.


My friend got back to me about this. It is actually the 11400 that he's ordered and he's now gonna pay special attention to BIOS bugs and other issues that may crop up. He won't be shy about returning it if it's too problematic, either.


----------



## Raendor (Apr 8, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> B560 boards allow for memory OC.
> 
> https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/intel-core-i5-11400f.280455/#post-4495808   <--- a few examples in that post.
> 
> https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i5-10400f/15.html   <--- green highlight is the 10400F w/3200Mhz RAM.


Yes, that's indeed for 11 series. I thought 10 series were still limited on b560 to max allowed per spec (2933 for i7 and 2666 for i5) based on what I see on vendor sites. Honestly, it's getting a bit confusing when you start combining. I think the grren highlight you showed is tested on z490 board with 3200 memory, which won't be able to be enabled even on b560, because of 10 series chip limitations.

For example that's fro is said for b560 on asus site:


5333(OC)/4800(OC)/4600(OC)/4400(OC)/4266(OC)/4000(OC)/3733(OC)/3600(OC)/3466(OC)/3400(OC)/3333(OC)/3200/2933/2800/2666/2400/2133 MHz Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory*


Dual Channel Memory Architecture


Supports Intel® Extreme Memory Profile (XMP)


OptiMem II


** 10th Gen Intel® i7/i9 processors support 2933/2800/2666/2400/2133 natively, others will run at the maximum transfer rate of DDR4 2666MHz.*


* 11th Gen Intel® processors support 3200/2933/2800/2666/2400/2133 natively.


Which I assumed is pretty much your limit for 10 series despite that it's unlocked for 11 series chips. Cool if I'm wrong.


----------



## Taraquin (Apr 8, 2021)

Good value CPU! How was all core frequency with max powerlimits? I see it dropped to around 3.8 in regular settings and below 3.5 in avx. If I remember correctly intel states 4.2 all core with no limits. Did it reach that?

Wonder how this undervolts. Wouldn`t surprise me if a negative 100mv would increase performance at 65W a great deal.


----------



## Caring1 (Apr 8, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Why would someone spend more money on a cpu with integrated graphics (10400/11400) when they can spend less for the same performance (10400F/11400F).


Because not everybody games.


----------



## Why_Me (Apr 8, 2021)

Raendor said:


> Yes, that's indeed for 11 series. I thought 10 series were still limited on b560 to max allowed per spec (2933 for i7 and 2666 for i5) based on what I see on vendor sites. Honestly, it's getting a bit confusing when you start combining. I think the grren highlight you showed is tested on z490 board with 3200 memory, which won't be able to be enabled even on b560, because of 10 series chip limitations.
> 
> For example that's fro is said for b560 on asus site:
> 
> ...


https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813157916 
ASRock Z490 Extreme4 

Supports DDR4 4266+(OC)*/ 4133(OC)/ 4000(OC)/ 3866(OC)/ 3800(OC)/ 3733(OC)/ 3600(OC)/ 3200(OC)/ 2933/ 2800/ 2666/ 2400/ 2133 non-ECC, un-buffered memory 

** Core (i9/i7) support DDR4 up to 2933; Core (i5/i3), Pentium and Celeron support DDR4 up to 2666.*


----------



## W1zzard (Apr 8, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> How was all core frequency with max powerlimits?


That's a good question indeed, will do a test run for you and update the review


----------



## qubit (Apr 8, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Why would someone spend more money on a cpu with integrated graphics (10400/11400) when they can spend less for the same performance (10400F/11400F).


Two main reasons:

- not everybody plays games, or at least not demanding games.
- getting a picture on the monitor. When building a new rig, or troubleshooting a blank picture problem on an existing rig, this guarantees a picture on the monitor if there's an issue with the graphics card. It can be a life saver in some circumstances, in fact. Well worth paying a little extra for.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Apr 8, 2021)

qubit said:


> Two main reasons:
> 
> - not everybody plays games, or at least not demanding games.
> - getting a picture on the monitor. When building a new rig, or troubleshooting a blank picture problem on an existing rig, this guarantees a picture on the monitor if there's an issue with the graphics card. It can be a life saver in some circumstances, in fact. Well worth paying a little extra for.


The second point 100%. My only caveat with Ryzen CPUs is no iGPU. I could really use an iGPU if my GPU ends up dying.


----------



## W1zzard (Apr 8, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> How was all core frequency with max powerlimits?


Added: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i5-11400f/22.html

Looks like useful data, I'll make this a permanent addition to all future Intel reviews


----------



## Dirtdog (Apr 8, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> View attachment 195771



That shows the importance of minimum framerates and not just averages. From the averages above, the 11400 looks good compared to the 10600K. From the minimums though, the 10th gen would provide a much better experience. Then again, it could be due to GN's obsession with using power limits which is known to impact 11th gen a lot worse.


----------



## B-Real (Apr 8, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> _Meanwhile ..._
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5-11400f-core-i5-11th-gen/p/N82E16819118264?Item=N82E16819118264
> Intel Core i5-11400F *$159.99*
> ...


Interestingly, the price difference wasn't a problem for you when Intel was better in gaming, right? LOL, pathetic.


----------



## Dirtdog (Apr 8, 2021)

I wonder how many uninformed consumers will buy the 5600X because it is '3.7GHz' and the 11400F is only '2.6GHz' without understanding how Intel's turbo system works.


----------



## TristanX (Apr 8, 2021)

In many tests 10400 is much faster than 11400, and results are different than in 10400 review.
Also other CPU's are exposed in unfair way. 11600K should be posted with max power limit / OC, as it increase perf by significant margin. Also does not make sense to include CPU's very old and/or 4C like Ryzen 3100 / 3300, i3-9100F, i5-9400F as well as 8C+ like i9-9900K, i9-10900K and others. Please keep rational comparison with similar 6C CPU's


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Apr 8, 2021)

I'm struggling to find any meaningful differences between 10th gen and 11th gen.

The 11400F might be good in a budget office system with 6 cores 12 threads, but....the 10400 also has 6C/12T _AND_ an iGPU _AND_ it's cheaper!


----------



## Taraquin (Apr 8, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> Added: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i5-11400f/22.html
> 
> Looks like useful data, I'll make this a permanent addition to all future Intel reviews


Awesome  Consumption MC without PL is terrible vs 10400F.


----------



## blu3dragon (Apr 8, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> That's a good question indeed, will do a test run for you and update the review


This would be very helpful to include in reviews going forward


----------



## Raendor (Apr 8, 2021)

TristanX said:


> In many tests 10400 is much faster than 11400, and results are different than in 10400 review.
> Also other CPU's are exposed in unfair way. 11600K should be posted with max power limit / OC, as it increase perf by significant margin. Also does not make sense to include CPU's very old and/or 4C like Ryzen 3100 / 3300, i3-9100F, i5-9400F as well as 8C+ like i9-9900K, i9-10900K and others. Please keep rational comparison with similar 6C CPU's


First sentence is a nonsense. Neither Gamersnexus nor Optimum Tech nor any either respectable youtuber had a benchmark where 10400 is faster than 11400. Plus I expect there will be a microcode update that will improve it even further.


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (Apr 8, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> First time overclockers are the #1 threat to society from what I've come across on the help forums.  They get advice from friends, a youtube vid, etc .. and they start screwing with their bios starting with voltage.  It's like they see the light socket and can't keep themselves from sticking their tongue in it.



Everybody's gotta start somewhere.  Screwing up is an important part of the learning process.



RandallFlagg said:


> I don't think that is what they said, but if they did then they are point blank incompetent noobs.  And so are you if you just bit into that without thinking about it.
> 
> It is that kind of mindless repeating of outdated information that keeps people out there paying $200-$230 for 3600/3600X when it is just a plain stupid choice.



Just because you're right doesn't mean you have to be a dick about it.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Apr 8, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> the 10400 also has 6C/12T _AND_ an iGPU _AND_ it's cheaper!


Exactly. This gen is making Comet Lake look better and better with each new review lol


----------



## blu3dragon (Apr 8, 2021)

Looking at total system cost between intel 11th gen and Zen3, motherboard availability and cost is in favor of zen3 right now.
I'm sure someone can come up with some better options, but a quick search, and assuming wifi is a requirement led me to the following:
Intel z590 (nothing available in the more budget chipsets right now) - $210 (or $220 without the rebate):


			https://pcpartpicker.com/product/V7PQzy/msi-z590-pro-wifi-atx-lga1200-motherboard-z590-pro-wifi
		

AMD B550 - $169:


			https://pcpartpicker.com/product/RhrYcf/msi-mag-b550m-mortar-wifi-micro-atx-am4-motherboard-mag-b550m-mortar-wifi
		


There are some VRM temps of the B550M-mortar here: https://www.techspot.com/review/2044-amd-b550-motherboard-vrm/ and while not the best, they are plenty good enough for a budget build.
No data on the Z590-pro yet.  I just have to trust MSI put enough VRMs for at least 200W into a ~$200 z590 motherboard.

If you are patient enough to find a 5600x at MSRP (which I think is possible now), that means the total system price is $100 more for the 5600x (or $90 more without the rebate) compared with an 11400F

Total system cost of the 11400F is likely to come down in the next few months as more lower end motherboards become available.  One thing to note though is that you will likely need to limit power consumption on a lower cost board.  95W might be a safe limit, and that should still give a reasonable benefit over 65W for gaming.
The other hidden cost with Rocket lake will the on the PSU side.  500W might be good enough for a budget AMD build, but probably on the limit for rocket lake once you add a gpu.

Overall it just seems like it is not a good time to be building a budget gaming PC, particularly given the GPU situation.  Hopefully in a few months GPU stock will improve, rocket lake motherboard availability improves, and the competition drives AMD to release some lower cost Zen3 parts.


----------



## ftgf (Apr 8, 2021)

blu3dragon said:


> Looking at total system cost between intel 11th gen and Zen3, motherboard availability and cost is in favor of zen3 right now.
> I'm sure someone can come up with some better options, but a quick search, and assuming wifi is a requirement led me to the following:
> Intel z590 (nothing available in the more budget chipsets right now) - $210 (or $220 without the rebate):
> 
> ...



Why would anyone pair a z590 chipset mobo with the lowest 11th gen sku? Asrock has perfect boards for the 11400f at around $105 with wifi and vrm heatsinks. They were in stock prior to launch but they got bought up. I'm sure more are coming soon. If you need to build something now it's not a bad choice. You can buy a 11400f and a b560 board cheaper than just the 5600x by itself. It makes sense in many scenarios and if you're stuck without a gpu just bump up to the 11400.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Apr 8, 2021)

blu3dragon said:


> Looking at total system cost between intel 11th gen and Zen3, motherboard availability and cost is in favor of zen3 right now.
> I'm sure someone can come up with some better options, but a quick search, and assuming wifi is a requirement led me to the following:
> Intel z590 (nothing available in the more budget chipsets right now) - $210 (or $220 without the rebate):
> 
> ...



11400F + 10 phase VRM B560 motherboard that can run 10900K stable @ 4.9Ghz all core for the MSRP of a 5600X.  This is not the really crappy Pro4 motherboard that gave Z490 a bad name.   This board also has a USB 3.2 2x2 (20 Gbit) port.


----------



## altermere (Apr 8, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813157916
> ASRock Z490 Extreme4
> 
> Supports DDR4 4266+(OC)*/ 4133(OC)/ 4000(OC)/ 3866(OC)/ 3800(OC)/ 3733(OC)/ 3600(OC)/ 3200(OC)/ 2933/ 2800/ 2666/ 2400/ 2133 non-ECC, un-buffered memory
> ...


those are max non-XMP speeds


ftgf said:


> Why would anyone pair a z590 chipset mobo with the lowest 11th gen sku? Asrock has perfect boards for the 11400f at around $105 with wifi and vrm heatsinks. They were in stock prior to launch but they got bought up. I'm sure more are coming soon. If you need to build something now it's not a bad choice. You can buy a 11400f and a b560 board cheaper than just the 5600x by itself. It makes sense in many scenarios and if you're stuck without a gpu just bump up to the 11400.


yeah, b560 is $130 and it's the same as AMD's b550 feature-wise: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/KH...end-atx-lga1200-motherboard-b560-steel-legend
use a Vetroo V5 for $30 as cooler: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08F21X2VP


----------



## blu3dragon (Apr 8, 2021)

I should have asked you guys what motherboard would be good 
Knowing that asrock can be variable I just did a quick search for MSI, Asus and Gigabyte with WiFi.  No B560 available on pcpartpicker for those, but I expect they should be soon.
No wifi on that $130 asrock either, but it might not be needed or could be added with a separate card.

On the AMD side you can go lower as well, e.g. $125 with wifi: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/Yt...c-atx-am4-motherboard-b550-phantom-gaming-4ac
So there is still a gap, but B560 does and should narrow it.


----------



## Why_Me (Apr 8, 2021)

blu3dragon said:


> I should have asked you guys what motherboard would be good
> Knowing that asrock can be variable I just did a quick search for MSI, Asus and Gigabyte with WiFi.  No B560 available on pcpartpicker for those, but I expect they should be soon.
> No wifi on that $130 asrock either, but it might not be needed or could be added with a separate card.
> 
> ...


Multiple B560/H570 and H510 boards offer built in wi fi 6.  If you want wi fi then do it right and at least get wi fi 6.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813144397    <--- example A (wi fi 6 ftw).

All Asrock B560 boards tmk have what's called a 'M.2 KEY E' slot.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813157977   <--- you can see it there.

https://www.asrock.com/MB/Intel/B560 Pro4/index.asp    <--- a better look here.

https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Wi-Fi-Gig-Desktop-AX200-NGWG-NV/dp/B085M7VPDP    <--- Intel Wi Fi 6 + Bluetooth desktop kit complete w/antenaes.



Raendor said:


> First sentence is a nonsense. Neither Gamersnexus nor Optimum Tech nor any either respectable youtuber had a benchmark where 10400 is faster than 11400. Plus I expect there will be a microcode update that will improve it even further.


The microcode update for B560 boards showed up on Asus website last night.


----------



## defaultluser (Apr 8, 2021)

I'm still planning to wait for 5600G to update my HTPC later this year - BUT, if my system suddenly dies before  that day, I can replace it with this incredible-value  processor (with igpu added).

They have B560 motherboards with  HDMI 2 and DP 1.4 outputs (Not priced into the stratosphere either!)









						ASRock B560M-ITX/AC LGA 1200 Mini ITX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com
					

Buy ASRock B560M-ITX/AC LGA 1200 Intel B560 SATA 6Gb/s Mini ITX Intel Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com


----------



## Why_Me (Apr 8, 2021)

defaultluser said:


> I'm still planning to wait for 5600G to update my HTPC later this year - BUT, if my system suddenly dies before  that day, I can replace it with this incredible-value  processor (with igpu added).
> 
> They have B560 motherboards with  HDMI 2 and DP 1.4 outputs (Not priced into the stratosphere either!)
> 
> ...


Here's another ITX board worth having a look at.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813144400
MSI H510I PRO WIFI $129.99 

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/H510I-PRO-WIFI
Intel Wi-Fi 6 AX201, Bluetooth 5.1


----------



## ftgf (Apr 9, 2021)

Searing said:


> Here comes the cherry picker. I quoted Techspot's conclusion from their massive game suite. But you went and found the worst case example and think that you have added anything useful to this conversation? Nope. Go buy a Ryzen 3600 and OC it, and compare it to the 11400. Keep on fooling yourself, but don't fool others. This is a thread in response to Techpowerup's own reviews which showed the 10700k faster than the 11900k for gaming, and the 10400 faster than the 11400 for gaming. The fact that we are even arguing after these "worst results for a Intel CPU release in a decade" shows people will argue anything.
> 
> 
> Watch what the stock cooler does to this CPU's performance, you lose 600 mhz for example. This is one reason I'm selling my 11500 system, because I didn't save as much money after buying a tower cooler for it: View attachment 195859



Yes because most users are running blender renders... Come on man. You accuse others of cherry picking yet you are reaching for useless examples to bash the stock cooler? Seriously?


----------



## RandallFlagg (Apr 9, 2021)

Searing said:


> Are you an idiot? I was talking about him cherry picking Red Dead 2 in response to me quoting TechpowerUP's summary of all games, and Techspot's summary of all games. Blender render isn't cherry picking, it is just an example of any 100 percent usage, looking at the cooler's performance. SMH. Wow man. Get a tool and apply a fixed wattage for all I care lol.... lol... From my experience I hit 100 degrees with the stock cooler just loading textures, but average around 85-90 degrees while gaming. Depends on your case setup.



You obviously didn't look closely at my post.  I didn't cherry pick anything, RDR2, Hitman 3, CyberPunk2077, and Adobe Photoshop are all there.  Also attached was blender render power consumption where the same chip took less power than the 3600. 

But if you really keep asking for it, there's plenty of ammo, because you're very very wrong about the 3600 being any kind of value vs the 11400. 

You might want to go look up the terms cognitive dissonance, including anchoring bias and confirmation bias.  You seem to suffer from many forms of this.

More stuff on 11400 vs 3600 :

Source -


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (Apr 9, 2021)

Searing said:


> Do you know what is sad? To post nonsense, and then misdirect and not respond coherently. To fulfill your request, I promise to randomly test the cooler with 10 different applications at 100 load and use an average of the max power consumption of the CPU... what a joke. The ENTIRE POINT is the CPU loses frequency at max usage due to heat, something you haven't denied so why are we even talking. Bye.
> 
> 
> As for you, your comeback to me accusing you of cherry picking, is to cherry pick some more. I quoted the summary results of all tests. You are welcome to do that also. Like this (from the very article this thread is supposedly based on:
> ...



Chill out.  Jeebus.  

What is your thesis?  If it's that the 3600 was a better buy than the 10400 in May 2020 (when that Techspot article you linked was published), then sure.  I can get behind that.  But vs. the 11400 in April 2021, when the 3600 now sells for north of 200USD... that's a tougher case to make.  If that's even what you're saying.  You mostly seem mad that people are arguing with you.


----------



## Raendor (Apr 9, 2021)

Searing said:


> To fulfill your request, I promise to randomly test the cooler with 10 different applications at 100 load and use an average of the max power consumption of the CPU... /s except that would be a bad joke. The ENTIRE POINT is the CPU loses frequency at max usage due to heat, something you haven't denied so why are we even talking. Use tower cooler or get bad results with the 11400f.
> 
> 
> As for you, your comeback to me accusing you of cherry picking, is to cherry pick some more. I quoted the summary results of all tests. You are welcome to do that also. Like this (from the very article this thread is supposedly based on:
> ...


Why do you need a summary page when at each individual benchmark your beloved 3600 gets oblitirated and sits in the bottom? There’s simply no need for summary with irrelevant cpu.


----------



## HenrySomeone (Apr 9, 2021)

Raendor said:


> Why do you need a summary page when at each individual benchmark your beloved 3600 gets oblitirated and sits in the bottom? There’s simply no need for summary with irrelevant cpu.


Bingo! 3600 was somewhat relevant before 10th gen was out (and immediately after when it was still cheaper), although for primarily gaming, 9600kf was still superior at a comparable price, but right now, even if it was the same price as 11400(f), it's just way too slow in too many instances. Until team red can get out a 5600 non-x at no more than $220 (and that's already a stretch) and with decent enough stock (probably unlikely for the foreseeable future), Intel is the undisputed master of the house below $250 (=i.e. where the most cpus are sold, which is nicely reflected in the last quarter market share).
Oh, by the way - currently even the now obsolete Ryzen 2600 is more expensive than 11400f and if you want something at the same price, you have to back another gen to 1600, which is just laughable at this point...
AMD RYZEN 5 2600 6-Core 3.4 GHz Desktop CPU Processor - Newegg.com
AMD Desktop Ryzen 5 1600 65W AM4 Processor with Wraith Stealth Cooler - Newegg.com
Intel Core i5-11400F 2.6 GHz LGA 1200 BX8070811400F Desktop Processor - Newegg.com

And that's just my biggest gripe with AMD - as soon as they have a competitive product (or at least think they have like with the FX 9590 which started at almost $1000, lmao   ), they price it higher than Intel's alternatives and than harkens back to at least the time of early Athlons X2 which while being undoubtedly better than Pentium Ds, were also much more expensive than the entry models of the latter (the 805 in particular was the only really budget option dual core at the time). And then the second thing is, even when they get ousted by competition, their prices remain high for months, like when Core 2 duo line absolutely obliterated them in mid 2006 (the very cheapest E6300 could beat the most expensive X2 when OCed), they remained expensive until 2007. I actually expect something very similar this year when Alder Lake lands (and likely ousts everything but 5950x in multi thread).


----------



## ftgf (Apr 9, 2021)

Searing said:


> One of the problems with these websites is we all have our own pricing. The Ryzen 3600 is still the same price as the 11400 here, and the 11400F isn't even sold. Not available. I did not start this thread trying to defend the 3600, I merely pointed out that you can't be serious about Rocket Lake when TPU's own review showed the 10700k beating the 11900k and the 10400f beating the 11400f. Not sure why people are ignoring that.


https://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=4_65_1971&item_id=190144 Looks available to me.


----------



## ftgf (Apr 9, 2021)

Searing said:


> That's new, must have got it today. Still listed out of stock through pcpartpicker and elsewhere. Not in stock at the huge store near me either. Also you did it again. Ignored every point I made, and latched on to the most irrelevant thing I said. All those links to THIS ARTICLE are just ignored. The 11400f being below the 10400f, the 5600x being faster, the cooling problem, just ignore it all...
> 
> Intel Core i5-11400F 2.6 GHz 6-Core Processor (BX8070811400F) - PCPartPicker


Well if one of the things you say is completely wrong and pointless why keep going...


----------



## qubit (Apr 9, 2021)

Alexa said:


> Exactly. This gen is making Comet Lake look better and better with each new review lol


Look, but you miss the most important thing: RL has a model number one bigger! Stick that in yer pipe and smoke it!


----------



## ftgf (Apr 9, 2021)

Searing said:


> I loaded up Mass Effect 1 with the i5-11500, it went straight to 100 degrees during and after loading, and I was not impressed.



This is also complete BS. ME1 doesn't even load the CPU past 30%. If you do have temps like these I suggest you reinstall your cooler or find someone to do it for you. You're funny dude.


----------



## HenrySomeone (Apr 9, 2021)

ftgf said:


> This is also complete BS. ME1 doesn't even load the CPU past 30%. If you do have temps like these I suggest you reinstall your cooler or find someone to do it for you. You're funny dude.


Yup - not all that difficult to spot a spreader of the excrement of a male member of the bovine species when he is saying that a 14 year old game immediately overheated a new, 6 core, 12 thread cpu, lmao!


----------



## Taraquin (Apr 9, 2021)

Searing said:


> One of the problems with these websites is we all have our own pricing. The Ryzen 3600 is still the same price as the 11400 here, and the 11400F isn't even sold. Not available. I did not start this thread trying to defend the 3600, I merely pointed out that you can't be serious about Rocket Lake when TPU's own review showed the 10700k beating the 11900k and the 10400f beating the 11400f. Not sure why people are ignoring that.
> 
> You can't use the stock cooler with the 11400f and get as good results as the 3600, we've already established that, a 4.4ghz 3600 will beat the 3.6ghz 11400f in everything except a few games. Nobody is disputing that apparently. Just ignoring even with expensive ram and a tower cooler, the 3600 still won in productivity. So you have buy a tower cooler, you have to buy better ram, and then the 11400f is great for gaming, IF you can buy it in your country. For Americans, it is great. Not for me.
> 
> ...


Hey, my 3600 was unable to do 4.2GHz even at 1.3V so I was extremely unlucky. My 5600X does 4.7@1.23V so I gues it makes up for that


----------



## HenrySomeone (Apr 9, 2021)

Precisely, early 3600s in particular were quite the stinkers as far OCing goes and the guy above is talking about _massive_ overclocks, hahaha!


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Apr 9, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Hey, my 3600 was unable to do 4.2GHz even at 1.3V so I was extremely unlucky.


Oof. Meanwhile a friend's MSI board decided to auto OC the 3600 to 4.4 and degrade it lol


----------



## the54thvoid (Apr 9, 2021)

Wow - just wow. 5 pages of bickering BS. And I didn't drop by out of choice. I was 'brought' here.

@Searing - I appreciate you feel justified in your defence of the 3600X. However, it is derailing the thread, causing unnecessary argument and really, making a lot of folks come across as stubborn and obstinate. I think you've said enough of the 3600X. Please move on.

As for everyone else that got involved, please keep it civil. I understand when someone vehemently disagrees it can be a pain (ask my mum) but it takes two seconds to delete a cursory insult and take a breath. 

Thanks.


----------



## Ahhzz (Apr 9, 2021)

Quit arguing with the mods. Report posts that break the guidelines, stick to the topic on hand, no personal attacks. This goes for everyone in this thread. Continued refusal to behave like adults will result in time-outs.


----------



## Taraquin (Apr 9, 2021)

HenrySomeone said:


> Precisely, early 3600s in particular were quite the stinkers as far OCing goes and the guy above is talking about _massive_ overclocks, hahaha!


It only managed 3.95GHz all core stock using 90W. TPUs testsample did 4 2 allcore stock. But hey, got a 5600X now so I'm fine


----------



## HenrySomeone (Apr 9, 2021)

Yeah, from a purely technical standpoint, 5600x is actually a great chip (the first AMD mainstream one in ages); good single thread, good multi thread, good gaming performance and even when pushed to the max, stays under 100W and cool, but (and this confirms what I've stated above) it is both too expensive to begin with (MSRP) and hard to get, which makes it even more expensive in most places where they actually have them and that's still true even almost 6 months after release...


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Apr 9, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> It only managed 3.95GHz all core stock using 90W. TPUs testsample did 4 2 allcore stock. But hey, got a 5600X now so I'm fine


5600X are still a rarity where I live. Enjoy it.


----------



## watzupken (Apr 9, 2021)

HenrySomeone said:


> Yeah, from a purely technical standpoint, 5600x is actually a great chip (the first AMD mainstream one in ages); good single thread, good multi thread, good gaming performance and even when pushed to the max, stays under 100W and cool, but (and this confirms what I've stated above) it is both too expensive to begin with (MSRP) and hard to get, which makes it even more expensive in most places where they actually have them and that's still true even almost 6 months after release...


I agree that the Zen 3 CPUs are priced on the high side, but the actual competition for the 5600X is actually the i5 11600K since both are unlocked CPUs. Unfortunately with chip supply so limited, I think it will also be pointless for AMD to release a budget friendly 6 cores Zen 3 processor because they can't fulfil the demand and you can't buy it.
So as it stands now the i5 Rocket Lake looks like a good budget chip, though I am not sure how cheap is a compatible motherboard.


----------



## W1zzard (Apr 9, 2021)

watzupken said:


> like a good budget chip, though I am not sure how cheap is a compatible motherboard.








						Mainboards Intel Sockel 1200 Preisvergleich Geizhals EU
					

Preisvergleich für Mainboards Intel Sockel 1200 ✓ Bewertungen ✓ Produktinfos ⇒ Auswahl und Filtern der Produkte nach den besten Eigenschaften und dem billigsten Preis




					geizhals.eu
				




€ 60

It runs fine on H410. Mathematically PCIe Gen 4 isn't worth the +12 € for H510, but I could see myself spending that when using a higher end GPU. Don't listen to the VRM naysayers, you're not buying a 11400F to run at 200 W 24/7


----------



## Vunnie (Apr 9, 2021)

TheinsanegamerN said:


> They did enable memory oc, that is to say technically anything over 2666 is considered overclocked memory. You can only enable up to 2933 for non k skus on non z series boards.


So would I get the same performance with a b560 as shown here or lower?


----------



## Taraquin (Apr 9, 2021)

Vunnie said:


> So would I get the same performance with a b560 as shown here or lower?


No, you can overclock ram on locked cpus on B560/H570. Even with locked 10th gen ram can be oced to 3600+


----------



## Why_Me (Apr 10, 2021)

Courtesy of @oxrufiioxo


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Apr 10, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Courtesy of @oxrufiioxo




I find it actually pretty impressive for the price. Especially considering you can get it with an ok board for about 20 bucks more than a 5600X by itself at MSRP.... Or a really good board at the 5600X current inflated price if you don't live by a Microcenter..... Just make sure to factor in something like a CM 212 and you're golden.   

Sure the AMD chip is faster with a much better upgrade path but for most users that stick it out with their cpu for 3-4 years it's fine.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Apr 10, 2021)

oxrufiioxo said:


> I find it actually pretty impressive for the price. Especially considering you can get it with an ok board for about 20 bucks more than a 5600X by itself at MSRP.... Or a really good board at the 5600X current inflated price if you don't live by a Microcenter..... Just make sure to factor in something like a CM 212 and you're golden.
> 
> Sure the AMD chip is faster with a much better upgrade path but for most users that stick it out with their cpu for 3-4 years it's fine.


MicroCenter upped the 5600X to $350    Most people are going to wind up paying ~$400USD for it, which makes it price comparable to a 10850K, 10900KF, or 11700K and significantly more than a 10700K which can be had for $320ish for anyone stateside, or $250 if you're near a Microcenter.  

That kind of moves AMD buyers to the 5800X for any kind of competitive value, as it can for the moment be had for $450 without much effort.  

That's historically the high end of a CPU price though, so I'm not so sure about that value.  I mean, the 8700K was only $359 MSRP on release in 2017 and the 6700K was similarly $350.   Paying $450 for a CPU is something that used to be for extreme edition Intel parts even the 2700K was only $330.  Above the 5800X, the zen 3 prices are actually making chips like the 10980XE look cheap.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Apr 10, 2021)

@RandallFlagg

Some people don't want intel regardless of value just like people won't go amd regardless.... I personally prefer X570 over Z490/590 currently and the fact that it goes up to 16 cores vs 8/10 is more appealing.... I get that you personally like value but I don't really care about what's cheaper and some others don't either.

Currently the only interesting intel chips to me are the sub 200 usd ones for customer builds and the 10900k for tweaking purposes.....

I don't really care what other people buy if they want an 11400 with a terrible motherboard more power to them or if they want a $600 ish 11900k go for it but value is pointless when someone is spending their own hard earn money.

Bottom line the 11400 might be the best 11th gen chip period none of the other chips make any sense to me people should grab it without reservations if they are in the market for a cpu under $200 but again it aint my money so I don't really care as long as whatever they end up makes them happy.


----------



## HenrySomeone (Apr 10, 2021)

The fact that AM4 can go to 16 cores has far less implications and importance for most people than it might seem at first glance and what AMD (and their fanboys) would have you believe. Sure, if you actually need that many cores, it does, but in that case you go for 10/12/16 of them today. Vast majority of people in the market for a 6 core 12 thread cpu will not and I repeat not start doing copious amounts of cpu based rendering next year or so (i.e. where that upgrade path might actually prove useful). For general use & gaming though, that won't come into play for years (at least until the next gen of consoles arrives and probably not for another year or two after) and by then the single thread on both Zen3 and 1200 chips will be lacking (not to mention older Ryzens) anyway. Sure, an 8 or a 10 core probably will benefit gaming in 3-5 years notably over a hexa-core, but between 10700f/k, 10850k, 10900f/k, 11700f/k and 11900f/k you will have a far greater selection (and lower used prices, both due to very healthy current sales) to pick from compared to just 5800x and above with AM4.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Apr 10, 2021)

@HenrySomeone once 10th gen sells out I doubt used pricing will be all that good I sold a 6700K ($190)/8700k ($220)/9900k ($360) recently and to me that really isn't cheap considering you can get current gen chips for similar $$$ that are better for only a little more and in the case of the 9900k a 10850k for less. Although in this current whacky market I sold a 2600X for $180 and a 3600X for $225 used..... Not sure why people are panic buying on ebay nothing is overly hard to get other than Zen 3 and I mostly think that is due to scalpers being able to make a decent profit on 3 out of the 4 chips that now even Microcenter is getting in on the action.

Other than people who really need a cpu bad everyone who loves them some team blue should be waiting for Alderlake which will probably offer 80% more MT performance and better ST vs rocketlake while being on a much more future proof platform..... I buy whatever I find interesting so if it's actually decent I may pick it up assuming DDR5 isn't too stupidly priced at launch. Maybe we will get a chip that actually deserves to be called an i9 again.


----------



## Why_Me (Apr 10, 2021)

Meanwhile this cpu isn't much more than the 3600 yet it goes head to head with the 5600X.

https://www.amazon.com/Intel-i7-10700F-Desktop-Processor-Graphics/dp/B086MN2XYL/ 
Intel Core i7-10700F $266.30


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (Apr 10, 2021)

oxrufiioxo said:


> I don't really care what other people buy if they want an 11400 with a terrible motherboard more power to them or if they want a $600 ish 11900k go for it but value is pointless when someone is spending their own hard earn money.



Value is paramount when I'm spending _my_ own hard-earned money. Perf/$ is one of my primary metrics, and I'm not alone in that.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Apr 10, 2021)

oxrufiioxo said:


> @HenrySomeone once 10th gen sells out I doubt used pricing will be all that good I sold a 6700K ($190)/8700k ($220)/9900k ($360) recently and to me that really isn't cheap considering you can get current gen chips for similar $$$ that are better for only a little more and in the case of the 9900k a 10850k for less. Although in this current whacky market I sold a 2600X for $180 and a 3600X for $225 used..... Not sure why people are panic buying on ebay nothing is overly hard to get other than Zen 3 and I mostly think that is due to scalpers being able to make a decent profit on 3 out of the 4 chips that now even Microcenter is getting in on the action.
> 
> Other than people who really need a cpu bad everyone who loves them some team blue should be waiting for Alderlake which will probably offer 80% more MT performance and better ST vs rocketlake while being on a much more future proof platform..... I buy whatever I find interesting so if it's actually decent I may pick it up assuming DDR5 isn't too stupidly priced at launch. Maybe we will get a chip that actually deserves to be called an i9 again.



Intel is still making 10th gen though.  They've even released some new SKUs on 10th gen in Q1 2021.  I think 10th gen will continue to be made in volume alongside 11th gen until Q4 at a minimum, and maybe longer.  Keep in mind that there is nothing yet to replace Intel's HEDT 109XX HEDT CPUs, and I doubt there will be until AL.  

The next big things we're likely to see from Intel and AMD will probably be in the laptop space.  We've seen leaks but not much in terms of real products with Zen 3 laptop parts and Tiger Lake H45 yet.



Why_Me said:


> Meanwhile this cpu isn't much more than the 3600 yet it goes head to head with the 5600X.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Intel-i7-10700F-Desktop-Processor-Graphics/dp/B086MN2XYL/
> Intel Core i7-10700F $266.30



I have one big reservation on Gen 10, and saying that as someone who just picked up a 10850K.

I strongly suspect that single thread performance will become much more important in the future.  Just the opposite of what the crowd tends to say.   Simple reason - it's easier to develop for it, and it's advancing rapidly again.  If we really do get another 20% IPC gain with AL and Zen 4, CML / Zen 2 and so on may look pretty weak on a lot of real applications in a couple years.


----------



## Why_Me (Apr 10, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Intel is still making 10th gen though.  They've even released some new SKUs on 10th gen in Q1 2021.  I think 10th gen will continue to be made in volume alongside 11th gen until Q4 at a minimum, and maybe longer.  Keep in mind that there is nothing yet to replace Intel's HEDT 109XX HEDT CPUs, and I doubt there will be until AL.
> 
> The next big things we're likely to see from Intel and AMD will probably be in the laptop space.  We've seen leaks but not much in terms of real products with Zen 3 laptop parts and Tiger Lake H45 yet.
> 
> ...


Intel continues to drop prices on both their 10th and 11 gen cpu's to where it's getting impossible to recommend an AMD build these days unless the OP has a fairly sizeable budget to work with.


----------



## Caring1 (Apr 11, 2021)

80-watt Hamster said:


> Value is paramount when I'm spending _my_ own hard-earned money. Perf/$ is one of my primary metrics, and I'm not alone in that.


Exactly the reason the 10400f is still the value king IMO, sale prices make it excellent value.


----------



## Raendor (Apr 11, 2021)

bit the bullet and ordered 11400f with asus b560-i mobo for my itx build, since my 6800xt is supposed to arrive next week. I was planning to upgrade to Alder Lake or Zen4 anyway, but if the prices for 11700f will fall just like for 10700f, I might just swap it in later and forego platform upgrades till next gpu upgrade which I won’t expect for another 4 years. At 1440p and 4K with high IQ it’s stupid to buy anything more just for gaming.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Apr 11, 2021)

Raendor said:


> bit the bullet and ordered 11400f with asus b560-i mobo for my itx build, since my 6800xt is supposed to arrive next week. I was planning to upgrade to Alder Lake or Zen4 anyway, but if the prices for 11700f will fall just like for 10700f, I might just swap it in later and forego platform upgrades till next gpu upgrade which I won’t expect for another 4 years. At 1440p and 4K with high IQ it’s stupid to buy anything more just for gaming.



Do let us know how that goes.  There's a real lack of information on the new B560 based boards and not really a whole lot on the 11400 yet either.   What kind of memory do you plan to use?


----------



## Raendor (Apr 12, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Do let us know how that goes.  There's a real lack of information on the new B560 based boards and not really a whole lot on the 11400 yet either.   What kind of memory do you plan to use?


sure, I’ll share my experience and will try to compare to some benchmarks out there, although intel cou plus amd gpu seems like a more rare combo these days. One of the reasons why I chose this combo is that I’d still wanna upgrade to lga1700/zen4 if they end up good and reasonably priced, and thus didn’t want to invest too much. I’m planning to use my g.skill tridentz 2x8gb 16-16-16-36 3200 kit I already had in my 6700k gtx1080 rig and maybe tune it slightly to run at higher speed or lower timing. Don’t think it’ll ultimately matter much though.

Haven’t had a red team gpu since 2004, so it’s all quite curious.


----------



## Baum (Apr 12, 2021)

This 165€ or
Intel Core i5-10400F (143€) ? Price difference is 15 to 25€ depending where you shop :-/​


----------



## altermere (Apr 12, 2021)

Baum said:


> This 165€ or
> Intel Core i5-10400F (143€) ? Price difference is 15 to 25€ depending where you shop :-/​


i think 10400 can match or dominate 11400 with asrock BFB feature (uncorked power limit). but i dunno, support for that feature was spotty in the past, it can go away with a bios update since it's technically not sanctioned by intel. but judging by the youtube reviews and product pages their b560 lineup should have it.


----------



## W1zzard (Apr 12, 2021)

CyberPunkling said:


> asrock BFB feature


This has been shut down by Intel a long time ago. CPU will measure its BCLK and stop the CPU if BCLK >= 103 MHz


----------



## Why_Me (Apr 12, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> This has been shut down by Intel a long time ago. CPU will measure its BCLK and stop the CPU if BCLK >= 103 MHz


https://www.asrock.com/microsite/2020BFB/   <--- Looks like Asrock might be offering it again.


----------



## W1zzard (Apr 12, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> https://www.asrock.com/microsite/2020BFB/   <--- Looks like Asrock might have be offering it again.


Oh, this not the BCLK hack that I was thinking of. Looks like this is just power limit for 65 W SKUs set to 125 W. Nothing to see here, you can do that manually on every single motherboard. If it has no options to set PL1 and PL2 use ThrottleStop, from within Windows, without reboot


----------



## Why_Me (Apr 12, 2021)

New review on this cpu.









						Intel Core i5-11400F Review: The New Value Champ
					

The Core i5-11400F coupled with a B560 motherboard make for an interesting build configuration, as it's significantly cheaper than the Core i5-11600K/Z590 and less than the cost...




					www.techspot.com


----------



## RandallFlagg (Apr 12, 2021)

Just to add, you can adjust PL1/PL2 and Tau in real time without even going into BIOS using Intel's XTU (Extreme Tuning Utility).  I used this to adjust my power levels to what my old air cooler can handle until my AIO arrives.  

So you can really tune any Intel rig to whatever your cooler can handle, whatever temperatures you're comfortable getting to, and use case specific things like high turbo for short durations by adjusting multiplier (on K-series chips), tau, and PL1/PL2. 

What really makes this cool is being able to do it without a reboot.  Tweak, test, tweak again, test, repeat.


----------



## Thuban (Apr 13, 2021)

> The beauty of power limit adjustments is that you can freely choose any power limit, so just pick a value like 95 W, which is still a huge improvement over the 65 W default.


Could this be done strictly in bios, and software/drivers independent unlike Ryzen Masters Eco mode?

I world prefer to avoid post boot tinkering with these settings aka Extreme Tuning Utility / ThrottleStop.


----------



## W1zzard (Apr 13, 2021)

Thuban said:


> Could this be done strictly in bios, and software/drivers independent unlike Ryzen Masters Eco mode?
> 
> I world prefer to avoid post boot tinkering with these settings aka Extreme Tuning Utility / ThrottleStop.


Most decent BIOSes let you adjust power limits. We just meant "as last resort use ThrottleStop"


----------



## braveswin11 (Apr 13, 2021)

So I am in the process of building my first ever PC (primarily for gaming), and I was going to get the 3600 until I heard about the 11400f. Seems like a pretty good deal especially after unlocking the power limit. I was just wondering how to go about selecting a motherboard with a BIOS that can unlock the power limit and handle the unlocked power limit? Like does chipset matter (H570 vs B560)?


----------



## Why_Me (Apr 13, 2021)

braveswin11 said:


> So I am in the process of building my first ever PC (primarily for gaming), and I was going to get the 3600 until I heard about the 11400f. Seems like a pretty good deal especially after unlocking the power limit. I was just wondering how to go about selecting a motherboard with a BIOS that can unlock the power limit and handle the unlocked power limit? Like does chipset matter (H570 vs B560)?


These boards have decent VRM's. 

https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-strix/rog-strix-b560-e-gaming-wifi-model/ 

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/All-series/TUF-GAMING-B560-PLUS-WIFI/ 

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/B560-AORUS-PRO-AX-rev-10#kfb 









						MAG B560M MORTAR WIFI
					

Powered by Intel 11th Gen Core processors, the MSI MAG B560M MORTAR WIFI is hardened with performance essential specifications to outlast enemies. Tuned for better performance by Core boost, DDR4 Boost, Premium Thermal Solution, M.2 Shield Frozr, USB 3.2




					www.msi.com
				












						Launching to New Heights – MSI 500 Series Motherboard
					

Made for Gamers and Creators. MSI 500 Series motherboards support 10th and 11th gen Intel core processors with PCIe Gen 4 and enhanced thermal. Gen 4 supporting makes users experience efficient transfer speed and execellent heat dissipation keep the perfo




					www.msi.com


----------



## braveswin11 (Apr 13, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> These boards have decent VRM's.
> 
> https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-strix/rog-strix-b560-e-gaming-wifi-model/
> 
> ...


Thanks! Another question since I am new, but how does one determine if a motherboard has a "decent VRM"? For example, I am looking at this board: https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/All-series/PRIME-B560-PLUS/


----------



## RandallFlagg (Apr 13, 2021)

braveswin11 said:


> Thanks! Another question since I am new, but how does one determine if a motherboard has a "decent VRM"? For example, I am looking at this board: https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/All-series/PRIME-B560-PLUS/



I have a Z490 Prime with a 10850K now, it's nearly the same VRM design (8-phase) and I'll just say VRM is not an issue and is unlikely to be a problem with an 11400F.  

The 11400F can pull upwards of 250W in synthetic stress tests though, and you can't cool that with anything less than a top line 360mm AIO and really would need custom loop if it is sustained.   

What I mean is, unlocking the 11400/F is not like the 10400 where you could just do it with the stock cooler no issues.

I think what is best, rather than 100% unlocking power limits, is something along the lines as what I've done below on a 10850K.  

Unlimited power boost for short duration
Over a 32 second period of time, the max average power draw is 190W :





So I had the 10850K before I got a 240MM AIO, using a cheap $20-$30 air cooler (Thermaltake Contac Silent 12, which is rated for 150W and seems to do a bit better than that).  

It was fine with the *turbo boost power max set at 160W and the time window at 28s.*  

That's basically what I'd suggest for an 11400F, though you'd want to tweak it for your specific environment.  That will not stress the B560 prime's VRM, and the coolers can be had for cheap.  And in the weird event that you run something that *would* make it over heat (because it is possible for it to pull 250W) then that power limit with stop it.  

You could also go to a nicer air cooler like the Noctua that TPU used, ~$60USD, but I don't think it's necessary to get a top line air cooler like that for the 11400.


----------



## altermere (Apr 13, 2021)

braveswin11 said:


> So I am in the process of building my first ever PC (primarily for gaming), and I was going to get the 3600 until I heard about the 11400f. Seems like a pretty good deal especially after unlocking the power limit. I was just wondering how to go about selecting a motherboard with a BIOS that can unlock the power limit and handle the unlocked power limit? Like does chipset matter (H570 vs B560)?


those two chipsets are virtually the same. and for cooler i'd recommend a Vetroo V5, seems to be a hidden gem for the price as it punches above it's weight.


----------



## Raendor (Apr 14, 2021)

Installed the cpu and mobo alongside gpu yesterday. Put long-term power limit to 125 and left the short term at default 154. Gear 1 with CL16 3200 memory 1T. 


So far I’m extremely pleased as my fps in RDR2 is damn high (way above 120 at high 1440p settings majority of time), while cpu utilization sits around 40-50-60 mark and temps are great. Doesn’t go nowhere near crazy power draw. Asus b560-i is a nice board too. Liked how convenient was to install asus utility that updated all drivers and doesn’t act like bloatware. They certainly improved. All in all - no regrets as I especially read about usb troubles. And happy to forget about OC. Wasted so much time on it over the years. I can only welcome that manufacturers now squeeze it all via binnig at the factory.


----------



## Why_Me (Apr 16, 2021)

AMD trying to find an answer for the 11400F and they struck out.









						AMD’s Ryzen 5 3500X Selling in US, No Longer China Exclusive
					

But its price tag is hard to swallow amidst stiff Intel competition




					www.tomshardware.com


----------



## altermere (Apr 16, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> AMD trying to find an answer for the 11400F and they struck out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


poor volta... good luck selling that gutless wonder even for $120.


----------



## Why_Me (Apr 16, 2021)




----------



## Mplay020 (Apr 18, 2021)

Looking at the Gigabyte B560 D3H, as I need a legacy PCI slot. Would it's 6+2 power phase be able to handle the 11400f without power limit?


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Apr 18, 2021)

Mplay020 said:


> Looking at the Gigabyte B560 D3H, as I need a legacy PCI slot. Would it's 6+2 power phase be able to handle the 11400f without power limit?



Probably not 1/3 of the cpu portion of the vrm isn't even covered by a heatsink..... That board looks like a stock only affair.


----------



## Why_Me (Apr 18, 2021)

Mplay020 said:


> Looking at the Gigabyte B560 D3H, as I need a legacy PCI slot. Would it's 6+2 power phase be able to handle the 11400f without power limit?


By the looks of it I'd think the VRM's on that board would get pretty warm. It's more of an entry level board by the looks of it.


----------



## Mplay020 (Apr 18, 2021)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Probably not 1/3 of the cpu portion of the vrm isn't even covered by a heatsink..... That board looks like a stock only affair.





Why_Me said:


> By the looks of it I'd think the VRM's on that board would get pretty warm. It's more of an entry level board by the looks of it.



Thanks for the quick replies!  I was planning to use a high airflow case with a couple of 140mm fan blowing down on the mb, but you're probably right this isn't a good idea.


----------



## W1zzard (Apr 18, 2021)

Mplay020 said:


> Looking at the Gigabyte B560 D3H, as I need a legacy PCI slot. Would it's 6+2 power phase be able to handle the 11400f without power limit?


What are you planning to run on it? Unless it's full load 24/7, don't bother worrying about the VRMs?


----------



## Mplay020 (Apr 18, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> What are you planning to run on it? Unless it's full load 24/7, don't bother worrying about the VRMs?


It's going to be for a music production PC, that's why I'm looking at this model as I need the PCI slot for my soundcard. Rocket lake is interesting for me as well as the software I use supports avx512. Won't be running it 24/7, but will be pushing on certain projects.


----------



## W1zzard (Apr 18, 2021)

Mplay020 said:


> It's going to be for a music production PC, that's why I'm looking at this model as I need the PCI slot for my soundcard. Rocket lake is interesting for me as well as the software I use supports avx512. Won't be running it 24/7, but will be pushing on certain projects.


Very interesting, AVX512 can certainly push power consumption high. Guess you just have to try, and it's not like you have an alternative? Worst case is you have to limit the maximum power limit a bit, should still be good, especially with AVX 512. Which software is that?


----------



## Mplay020 (Apr 18, 2021)

Thanks again for your feedback, highly appreciated. The software is from a company called Acustica Audio. Their technology samples hardware gear and uses quite a bit of cpu. When avx2 was introduced with haswell it was a nice performance increase but I had just bought a 4c/8t Ivy Lake Xeon. Ideally I’d like to get double the performance compared that without breaking the bank


----------



## RandallFlagg (Apr 18, 2021)

I don't think you'll want it unlimited power unlock. I tend to think that is bad for any system that is capable of over-stressing the cooling solution, and the 11400 can push 250W under synthetic loads.  You may never have that scenario, but there's no point in leaving the power limit such that it could happen.   

Which means you'll need a 3rd party air cooler.  I wouldn't spend the $45-$80 on the models most review sites use (Brands like noctua, BeQuiet!, and so on) unless fan sound under load is a major factor, but it's certainly worth $25 (IMO) to push PL2 to 100W and beyond.   

Here are a few cheaper options that I know are popular, the first one I can vouch for as I ran it at 160W PL2 with a 10850K, the other two look to be able to handle 125W or more :



			https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Contac-Silent-Support-CL-P039-AL12BL/dp/B06X9Q1K88/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=thermaltake+contac&qid=1618783625&sr=8-1
		


Hyper 212 is pretty much a staple it seems :



			https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Hyper-Direct-Contact/dp/B005O65JXI/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=hyper+212+evo&qid=1618784025&sr=8-3
		


So is Gammaxx, this one says up to 130W :



			https://www.amazon.com/DEEPCOOL-GAMMAXX-400-Blue-Compatible/dp/B00JQ2YDCY/ref=psdc_11036281_t1_B085G8WJCC


----------



## Mplay020 (Apr 19, 2021)

Definitely won’t be using the stock cooler after reading this review


----------



## Thuban (Apr 19, 2021)

Mplay020 said:


> Thanks again for your feedback, highly appreciated. The software is from a company called Acustica Audio. Their technology samples hardware gear and uses quite a bit of cpu. When avx2 was introduced with haswell it was a nice performance increase but I had just bought a 4c/8t Ivy Lake Xeon. Ideally I’d like to get double the performance compared that without breaking the bank


Curious, what exactly from their product stack supports avx512? They seem to have a number of products. Thanks.


----------



## Mplay020 (Apr 19, 2021)

Thuban said:


> Curious, what exactly from their product stack supports avx512? They seem to have a number of products. Thanks.



Anything core 16 and up is. Coffee pun is free and should support avx512. You do need to register and install through their Aquarius app. And of course you need a DAW to load it in. Reaper has a fully featured trial version and a small footprint if you want to test it out


----------



## tempquestion (Apr 21, 2021)

Any thoughts on the 11400 at 40/41 degrees under load, whereas the 10100 came in at 48 degrees? I opened the 10100 review and saw the Noctua cooler used was the same. I'm assuming fan RPM curves were also the same? The 11400 evidently uses more watts, even at stock which arrived at 40/41 degrees. Is the heat simply released in a way that is more conducive for cooling? I ask as temps are an important consideration in my potential build due to wanting to use an enclosed, sound-reducing case. So the lower the CPU temps *and* RPM required, the better.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Apr 21, 2021)

tempquestion said:


> Any thoughts on the 11400 at 40/41 degrees under load, whereas the 10100 came in at 48 degrees? I opened the 10100 review and saw the Noctua cooler used was the same. I'm assuming fan RPM curves were also the same? The 11400 evidently uses more watts, even at stock which arrived at 40/41 degrees. Is the heat simply released in a way that is more conducive for cooling? I ask as temps are an important consideration in my potential build due to wanting to use an enclosed, sound-reducing case. So the lower the CPU temps *and* RPM required, the better.



11 series all have solder, hence transfer heat more efficiently than 10th gen except the higher 10th gen models (K, maybe some non K not sure).

Think of it this way.  You've got a heating pad (stove top).  You put a piece of insulating material like ceramic on top of it, then put a pot of water on top of that.  It'll take a long time for the pot to start boiling, and the heating pad will get pretty hot.

Now do the same thing, but instead of an insulating material like ceramic you put a thin piece of aluminum foil on top of the heating pad, then put the pot on top of the aluminum foil.  The heating pad will x-fer its heat to the pot much quicker. 

The example is a bit hyperbolic but it's the same principle, Intel improved the heat transfer rate from the chip to the heat spreader hence to the cooler.  This is why the 10th and 11th gen chips generally run cooler than Zen 2/3 despite pulling more power, note that only some of the 10th gen have had improved heat transfer - mostly the high end and K series - not the low end models like the 10100.  The power and heat is still being generated, it just transfers to the cooler much more efficiently.


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## HenrySomeone (Apr 21, 2021)

What Randall says above, I might only add that at stock, 11400(f) uses only a bit more power than 10100, yet its die size is considerably larger (for some reason I can't seem to find exact numbers for 11th gen 6 core parts), which means that the thermal density is actually lower and the heat can therefore pass through the IHS and into the cooler more easily resulting in lower temperatures.


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## Why_Me (Apr 21, 2021)

My gripe of the day: Why is it that North Americans are getting screwed on the new 11 gen boards?  I posted a build here using a French PC hardware retailer and an Italian hardware retailer on another site and both of those online retailers had more and better boards than they offer in NA.  This is some bs.


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## 80-watt Hamster (Apr 21, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> My gripe of the day: Why is it that North Americans are getting screwed on the new 11 gen boards?  I posted a build here using a French PC hardware retailer and an Italian hardware retailer on another site and both of those online retailers had more and better boards than they offer in NA.  This is some bs.



Distributors getting better margins in other regions because of tariffs, maybe?  But seeing as NA has a tendency to get a better deal vs. other regions most of the time, maybe we shouldn't begrudge Italy and France their good fortune.


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## Why_Me (Apr 21, 2021)

80-watt Hamster said:


> *Distributors getting better margins in other regions because of tariffs, maybe?*  But seeing as NA has a tendency to get a better deal vs. other regions most of the time, maybe we shouldn't begrudge Italy and France their good fortune.


You might be right with the bolded part, but I'd give my left nut to be able to get my hands on a few of those boards they're offering in Europe.


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## tempquestion (Apr 22, 2021)

Thank you both for explaining those details. I'm considering the i5-11400 for a quiet build intended primarily for web browsing, writing, etc. I'm looking into Pure Base 600 as the case, and Dark Rock Slim as the cooler. The case has minimal airflow. Do you think with low to moderate case and CPU fan RPMs I'd be able to keep the CPU temp at or under 60 C under my mild "load"? Ambient temps around 24 C. I know there are many factors here. Thank you for providing any feedback that you can.


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## RandallFlagg (Apr 22, 2021)

tempquestion said:


> Thank you both for explaining those details. I'm considering the i5-11400 for a quiet build intended primarily for web browsing, writing, etc. I'm looking into Pure Base 600 as the case, and Dark Rock Slim as the cooler. The case has minimal airflow. Do you think with low to moderate case and CPU fan RPMs I'd be able to keep the CPU temp at or under 60 C under my mild "load"? Ambient temps around 24 C. I know there are many factors here. Thank you for providing any feedback that you can.



Running the load you describe with that cooler, I imagine it'll be around or under 30C most of the time.

Review here at TPU shows running blender as a load, stock i5-11400 with DDR4-3733, only hit 40C with a Noctua NH-U14S.  

It is the coolest running chip on their chart in that relatively stressful load  :


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## Tsukiyomi91 (Apr 24, 2021)

AMD got nothing to compete in the under-$200 range. Even the former R5 3600 is no longer in that space after its price has gone up to $240+ while getting kicked around by the i5-11400 and F-variant in gaming performance, at stock settings. And I can bet to you that Intel has more stock than AMD right now, even more so that higher end 11th Gen models are getting price cuts like the i7-11700K.


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## Tsukiyomi91 (Apr 26, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Running the load you describe with that cooler, I imagine it'll be around or under 30C most of the time.
> 
> Review here at TPU shows running blender as a load, stock i5-11400 with DDR4-3733, only hit 40C with a Noctua NH-U14S.
> 
> ...


with 65W TDP (which is roughly about 70W+ power draw under full load), it's far more efficient and far more cooler than the 11600K. Sure there are some games that takes full advantage of the 11600K's higher boost clocks but that's it. I doubt people want to spend $280 for a hot & power hungry chip that's roughly 7% faster than the 11400 and its F-variant when they see the benchmarks.


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## French Fab Factorie (Apr 27, 2021)

Hi, i've just buy à 11400f with a b560i strix and 3600Mhz ddr4 ripjaws.

I had à 4790k running at 4,6Ghz with z97i  plus ddr3 sniper 2400 Mhz with negative offset vcore at 0,060. Power draw was above 60/70 Watts in msi afterburner.

MB CPU was/are paired with à 2080ti.

In 1440p games, there is no real (for human eyes) différences except with heavy multithreaded games as RDR2 (20% better) and less low frame rate.

11400f @ 4,3 just do the same gaming job as 4790k @4,6 with 20 watts less power consumption.

i just earned 2 more cores and 4 more threads.

In application, 11400f is just so much more powerfull.

So, if i have to do my story again, i'll Never bought 11400f... especially for gaming. There is no improvment.

Hope that will help you.


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## HenrySomeone (Apr 27, 2021)

Well, no huge surprise there - at 1440p with settings probably cranked to the max, 11400f won't show that much difference compared to properly OCed and tuned 4790k (like yours) using "only" 2080Ti. The most noticeable will be better 1% lows just like you mention. Just goes to show what a great purchase the 4790k was for a gaming oriented build back in the day...


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## Tsukiyomi91 (Apr 28, 2021)

but it shows you that the 11400F runs cooler & uses much less power (on stock) than a 4790K that runs at a higher boost clock (after tweaking & OCing) all the while gives you better 1% and 0.1% lows. I rather have the extra cores, threads and IPC gains. Manual OCing is dead anyways.


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## French Fab Factorie (Apr 28, 2021)

Tsukiyomi91 said:


> but it shows you that the 11400F runs cooler & uses much less power (on stock) than a 4790K that runs at a higher boost clock (after tweaking & OCing) all the while gives you better 1% and 0.1% lows. I rather have the extra cores, threads and IPC gains. Manual OCing is dead anyways.


Yes, that is right, but, 7 years separate those 2 cpu. In gaming terms, with the uprgrade from 4790k to 11400f, i've just spend/loose my money for nothing.

Conclusion, dont move to 11400f if you come from old i7 4790k.


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## 80-watt Hamster (Apr 28, 2021)

Tsukiyomi91 said:


> but it shows you that the 11400F runs cooler & uses much less power (on stock) than a 4790K that runs at a higher boost clock (after tweaking & OCing) all the while gives you better 1% and 0.1% lows. I rather have the extra cores, threads and IPC gains. Manual OCing is dead anyways.



But if one already has a tuned 4790K, is shelling out $300US+ on a new platform worth it for those gains?  Perhaps for some, but obv. not for everyone.


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## Tsukiyomi91 (Apr 29, 2021)

Then again, you have to OC the 4790K for it to give similar if not slightly better performance over the 11400F. Is it worth the hassle? I don't think so. And I'm pretty sure you can get both the 11400F & a decent B560 board for the same money as a 4790K at launch prices, not even counting on a good Z97 board.


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## spacejam (Apr 30, 2021)

I'm looking to get a 11400f and was wondering if this mobo has good VRM and would allow me to use it with unlimited power https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/B560M-AORUS-ELITE-rev-10#kf

I'll also be using a 212 EVO. My other choices would be https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/All-series/TUF-GAMING-B560M-PLUS/ or https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/B560M-AORUS-PRO-rev-10/na#na

Which one would be best for the long run ? Ideally I'd want this build to last me 3-5 years and the Asus mobo/aorus pro are like 10 dollars more expensive than the aorus elite in my region.


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## 80-watt Hamster (Apr 30, 2021)

spacejam said:


> I'm looking to get a 11400f and was wondering if this mobo has good VRM and would allow me to use it with unlimited power https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/B560M-AORUS-ELITE-rev-10#kf
> 
> I'll also be using a 212 EVO. My other choices would be https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/All-series/TUF-GAMING-B560M-PLUS/ or https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/B560M-AORUS-PRO-rev-10/na#na
> 
> Which one would be best for the long run ? Ideally I'd want this build to last me 3-5 years and the Asus mobo/aorus pro are like 10 dollars more expensive than the aorus elite in my region.



B560 reviews are really thin on the ground so far.  Determining how robust VRMs are requires testing; specs don't always tell the whole story.  But without any data to go by...

The ASUS -A series boards are generally pretty consistent, and MSI's PRO series has been punching above its weight lately, so those might be something to look at. Otherwise, you're going to either need to take a leap of faith with a board you like or wait for reviews.


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## VeqIR (May 1, 2021)

I feel like I overpaid for my new system: $330 for an i9-10900KF.  After analyzing this review, I could have saved ~$170 and gone with an i5-11400...  This review shows how close the performance is for most practical purposes.  I’m just a few days outside return period on the i9, which I got before any 11 series processors were in stock.  Kind of sad.

P.S.: @W1zzard : could we please get World of Warcraft scores back?  I know it’s not the most demanding game out there, but it still has a huge player base, and getting CPU and GPU point of reference scores for it would be useful.  It’s still a game that uses CPU quite a bit.  No one has a comparison of the latest generations of processors for WoW.


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## Amox (May 6, 2021)

Hi all, I need an advice regarding I5-11400f. Recently decided to build a fresh system, since my I5-6500 8gb ddr3 is starting to show it's age. About a month ago I bought the I5-10400f for 130eur, however I was not expecting to see so many good discounts on various, newly-released pc components so soon, including the 11th gen I5. So, pulled the trigger recently and got a crucial ddr4 16gb 3600mhz kit for 65eur, an Asus strix B560-G for 120e and the I5-11400f for 126eur. After much time spent on various forums and reviews I am still undecided which cpu to keep. It seems that 10th gen is a lot more polished generation, giving better power efficiency and somewhat better stability (talking about those bios bugs with 11th gen). However 11th gen looks better with productivity tasks. My plan is to use the PC without any major upgrades for at least 5 upcoming years, it will be mainly used for light productivity and sometimes gaming (with gtx 1070, at 1080p 144hz), maybe some more intense workloads in the future as well. Which cpu should I keep? All opinions and advices are very welcome. Thank you for reading and thanks in advance! 
P.S. Sorry for mediocre english


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## braveswin11 (May 7, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> I have a Z490 Prime with a 10850K now, it's nearly the same VRM design (8-phase) and I'll just say VRM is not an issue and is unlikely to be a problem with an 11400F.
> 
> The 11400F can pull upwards of 250W in synthetic stress tests though, and you can't cool that with anything less than a top line 360mm AIO and really would need custom loop if it is sustained.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this advice! Just finished my build and went from about a 7550 cinebench r23 multi threading score to 10200 by setting a 140W limit. Averaging Temps of 70 degrees during the test so could go higher with the limit but feel pretty content


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## RandallFlagg (May 7, 2021)

Amox said:


> Hi all, I need an advice regarding I5-11400f. Recently decided to build a fresh system, since my I5-6500 8gb ddr3 is starting to show it's age. About a month ago I bought the I5-10400f for 130eur, however I was not expecting to see so many good discounts on various, newly-released pc components so soon, including the 11th gen I5. So, pulled the trigger recently and got a crucial ddr4 16gb 3600mhz kit for 65eur, an Asus strix B560-G for 120e and the I5-11400f for 126eur. After much time spent on various forums and reviews I am still undecided which cpu to keep. It seems that 10th gen is a lot more polished generation, giving better power efficiency and somewhat better stability (talking about those bios bugs with 11th gen). However 11th gen looks better with productivity tasks. My plan is to use the PC without any major upgrades for at least 5 upcoming years, it will be mainly used for light productivity and sometimes gaming (with gtx 1070, at 1080p 144hz), maybe some more intense workloads in the future as well. Which cpu should I keep? All opinions and advices are very welcome. Thank you for reading and thanks in advance!
> P.S. Sorry for mediocre english



I would hands down keep the 11400F.  Single core and low thread count performance counts the most in virtually every normal use case.   Just look at how good the 11400F performs in web browsing, it just obliterates even the top models from the last gen Zen 2 / Intel 10th Gen.   And against a 10400, it's like a 40%+ improvement.  

For whatever reason folks on forums like this deprecate the importance of that, but the 'feel' and 'user experience' you get in normal usage is reflected in those web tests.  Zen 3 and Rocket Lake are both a different level vs Zen 2 / Intel Gen 10 in that regard, and the same can be said of Tiger Lake.   No way would I go for a 10400 right now to save $30 unless I was just dirt poor, in which case probably shouldn't be buying a new PC at all.


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## Amox (May 8, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> I would hands down keep the 11400F.  Single core and low thread count performance counts the most in virtually every normal use case.   Just look at how good the 11400F performs in web browsing, it just obliterates even the top models from the last gen Zen 2 / Intel 10th Gen.   And against a 10400, it's like a 40%+ improvement.
> 
> For whatever reason folks on forums like this deprecate the importance of that, but the 'feel' and 'user experience' you get in normal usage is reflected in those web tests.  Zen 3 and Rocket Lake are both a different level vs Zen 2 / Intel Gen 10 in that regard, and the same can be said of Tiger Lake.   No way would I go for a 10400 right now to save $30 unless I was just dirt poor, in which case probably shouldn't be buying a new PC at all.


Thanks for your input! After digging around a few days, I have finally decided to go with 11th gen. There are simply very few benefits when sticking to 10th gen (only marginally better economy) AND for 11th I5-11400f I will have a perfect mobo, good ram's, already have good case with decent airflow and a hyper212 evo. Not to mention a lower cpu price and good overall performance uplift. I am very happy with my decision and cannot wait to finish this PC upgrade. 
P.S. I also plan on getting an Rm550x and 1tb nvme ssd. Those two won't hurt for sure.


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## Mplay020 (Jun 19, 2021)

Just wanted to drop in to say I have my 11400 up and running, thanks again for everybody’s input. In the end I decided to pair it with a MSI Z590 A Pro instead of the budget B560 I was looking at. Got my PCI soundcard working with an adapter. Haven’t been able to determine if avx512 is making a big difference, but definitely see power draw and temperatures (hitting 76C, while cinabench23 never went above 65C) increase when I ran some benchmarks with software that supports avx512.


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## Onimir89 (Dec 24, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Just to add, you can adjust PL1/PL2 and Tau in real time without even going into BIOS using Intel's XTU (Extreme Tuning Utility).  I used this to adjust my power levels to what my old air cooler can handle until my AIO arrives.
> 
> So you can really tune any Intel rig to whatever your cooler can handle, whatever temperatures you're comfortable getting to, and use case specific things like high turbo for short durations by adjusting multiplier (on K-series chips), tau, and PL1/PL2.
> 
> ...



Hi, how did you do that? 

When I open my Intel XTU I get everything locked.

I have a i5 11400f and asrock 560 hdv


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## Why_Me (Dec 24, 2021)

Onimir89 said:


> Hi, how did you do that?
> 
> When I open my Intel XTU I get everything locked.
> 
> I have a i5 11400f and asrock 560 hdv


You don't want to run that cpu with the power limits off with your board.


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