# What's different from normal keyboard to gaming keyboard?



## kurosagi01 (May 31, 2009)

Hey guys,just wondering what difference are there from a normal keyboard to a gaming keyboard?? i was thinking about buying a new keyboard but i was wondering whats the difference between a normal and gaming??


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## MRCL (May 31, 2009)

I have no idea. I'm using a generic keyboard since like ever, and its suitable for gaming.
I'm suspecting a marketing trick?

As long as you're comfortable with the board, its perfect imho.

Edit: On the technical site; "Gaming" keyboards often feature additional keys, like makro keys of special keys that work like the f-keys. I have said keys a lot, didn't I.


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## Soylent Joe (May 31, 2009)

Gaming keyboards often have a variety of programmable keys for use in or out of game. They are often backlit, and may feature a thicker coating of paint on the most used gaming keys (w,a,s,d,space). They're also more suitable for long time use by (usually) being built in a more robust fashion, and are made so that they won't hurt the user's hands after a period of long use. Gaming keyboards can also come with a variety of useful features from a windows key disable switch to a LCD screen.


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## oli_ramsay (May 31, 2009)

e-peen


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## Naekuh (May 31, 2009)

the best keyboards i feel are gaming keyboards because they were designed for gamers in mind.

Other then an office secretary whose underpaid and overworked, i doubt any other profession will have more on time with a keyboard then a gamer.

To me if you look at a high tier gaming keyboard, theres no competition. 
I gave 2 of my office admins a Razor tarantula's and they will shoot you if you take the keyboard away. 

If your in the possition where your gonna be on the keyboard a lot, i highly recomend u pick up a gamer keyboard even tho you dont game.


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## -1nf1n1ty- (May 31, 2009)

I think its just ghosting really


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## LittleLizard (May 31, 2009)

if u dont play wow or any other rpg that requires large amount of macros thingies, you will be fine with a normal keyboard.


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## trickson (May 31, 2009)

It is the E-Peen factor of the key board .


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

most people probably think what makes a gaming keyboard are macros and back lighting but I think the type of switches is far more important build quality is also important it's kinda hard to damage a piece of plastic but one thing that always bothers me is when the key caps are made out of a cheap plastic instead of a thermo plastic or painted because paint fades after time it's not a exact science it can take 6 months or 4 years but fade is inevitable, laser etched key caps never fade not even after 20 years.

Buckling Spring (IBM Model M, Unicomp)






Scissor Switch (usually found in slim Keyboards like Mac, Laptop, Logitech DiNovo, Enermax Aurora and Enermax Caesar)





Alps Switch (Dell AT101W, Solidtek 6600 Series, ABS M1, Mattias Tactile Pro 2.0 and the Kinesis Evolution)





Dome Switch (usually found in just about every Keyboard including the Logitech Gaming Series, Saitek Eclipse Series, Razer Tarantula and Lycosa)





Mechanical Switch (Compaq 11800 & G80-3000, iOne Scorpius M10 & 35, Das Series, Filco Series, Deck Series, SteelSeries 6 & 7G and the Gigabyte GK-K8000)


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## PCpraiser100 (May 31, 2009)

Having a gaming keyboard is like having a Ferrari to race with, not a Honda Civic. In other words, it is built for power-using and comfort despite the looks. If you are looking for hardcore, get a keyboard that has a vinyl or rubber surface to prevent intake of sweat on the keys and miss-types. It also includes more nice features than your average microshaft like media buttons so no exiting the game to change music, programmable keys to prevent headaches in WoW, and USB ports, headphone jacks to allow easy access overall. No doubt about it, I would take a gaming keyboard everywhere for computing.


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

I should of said this yesterday would of made me a lot less enemies  

Logitech is like McDonald's Just because McDonald's sells the most burgers in the world, do they make the best burger? no. there is technology and build quality far greater than Logitech in fact I can't think of a Keyboard worse than Logitech and if you guys think so highly of Logitech then that should be taken as a compliment but I put Logitech at the low end of Keyboards you can buy because there is nothing lower than a plastic housing with rubber domes switches.


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## Kantastic (May 31, 2009)

My Razer Arctosa was wonderful, slim, sleek, sensitive, and had macro capabilities, unfortunately I had no use for the macros so I sold it to Xazax. The ONLY function of a gaming keyboard, for me at least, is the macro capability and antighosting, but you can get an antighosting keyboard for pocket change.

Gaming surfaces are useless unless you have a good gaming mouse to go along with it. You can really feel the textural difference between a gaming mouse and a normal mouse.


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

yes but there is a program called AutoHotKey that can create more sophisticated macros and profiles than what the Logitech drivers can do and you can use it on any keyboard. the Gigabyte GK-K8000 is the first Mechanical Keyboard to use dedicated Macros or G-Keys if your not sold on Mechanical Keyboards read the review which is excellent by the way, only problem is it's very hard to find in the stores only Australia and Canada carry it.


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## t77snapshot (May 31, 2009)

I think the only sweet feature a gaming keyboard has is this> 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...........and they look cool, but it's not worth the $$$, I don't play rpg games either.


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

you can also get a Matrix Orbital or Alphacool Internal or External LCD they have a price tag but are capable of doing a lot more than the LCD on the G15.


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## t77snapshot (May 31, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> you can also get a Matrix Orbital or Alphacool Internal or External LCD they have a price tag but are capable of doing a lot more than the LCD on the G15.



Holy crap that expensive I just use Riva-tuners OSD for my temps,fps, etc.


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## DreamSeller (May 31, 2009)

t77snapshot said:


> I think the only sweet feature a gaming keyboard has is this> http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b10/T77snapshot/logitech-g15-everest2.jpg...........and they look cool, but it's not worth the $$$, I don't play rpg games either.



ae i want that  gimme a link


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## t77snapshot (May 31, 2009)

DreamSeller said:


> ae i want that  gimme a link



http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000AY0HTU/?tag=tec06d-20


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## Mussels (May 31, 2009)

kurosagi01 said:


> Hey guys,just wondering what difference are there from a normal keyboard to a gaming keyboard?? i was thinking about buying a new keyboard but i was wondering whats the difference between a normal and gaming??



quality, features.

Check out my two: Logitech Dinovo edge (less gaming, more.... awesome and expensive) and the Saitek Eclipse II - simple, durable, LED's for nighttime/LAN gaming.


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## kurosagi01 (May 31, 2009)

well i was looking at the razer arctosa silver edition,it drawed my attention..so did the black edition but people say its hard to see the notes cos its just jet black coating


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## FordGT90Concept (May 31, 2009)

If the keyboard has a calculator button, I'm happy.  I go nutty without my calculator button.


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## Mussels (May 31, 2009)

FordGT90Concept said:


> If the keyboard has a calculator button, I'm happy.  I go nutty without my calculator button.



my saitek doesnt have one  made me sad too.


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## kurosagi01 (May 31, 2009)

lol i got a calculator button on my current keyboard which i don't really use..but yeah what you guys think of the arctosa keyboard?? i really like it since it looks like its big brother the lycosa? would you reconmend to get silver edition or black edition??


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## Mussels (May 31, 2009)

i've never found a razer product i actually liked, so i've got no comment on their new stuff.


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## DreamSeller (May 31, 2009)

lol that Logitech G15 is like 100 bux cheapest i could find ... :\


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## Darknova (May 31, 2009)

Mussels said:


> my saitek doesnt have one  made me sad too.



Saitek Eclipse III does 

Tbh I hate the whole "Gaming Keyboard" thing. Personally I go for a keyboard that's of good quality (so far Saitek has NEVER let me down with any of their eclipses) and backlighting so I can see in the dark, generally of a colour that matches my PCs colour scheme.

Macro keys are useless for the games I play, tbh I wish most of these keys I had I could turn off....


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

DreamSeller it's not worth it not for all the rubles in the world. by the way the Saitek Eclipse has laser etched keys not paint like the G15! and I just use start -> run -> calc


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## WaroDaBeast (May 31, 2009)

I bought the G15 because I wanted backlit keys, multimedia keys and macros. The LCD screen is a nice addition, though I do think it is limited in use. Besides, the ability to deactivate the Windows key can come in handy. Other than that, I wanted a keyboard that doesn't wear out after a year of use or so, and since newer low end keyboard never seem to last long...

But yeah, I'm pretty sure there are keyboard that sport better build quality out there.


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## trickson (May 31, 2009)

I gota tell you when I went out and bought the G15 my E-Peen got really big . This thing is great I have an LCD read out on all the things I like and I have macro keys great for fast switching of programs and in games tools . I mean who's E-Peen didn't get bigger when they saw this ? Oh and the key board has a setting on it for normal operation and GAMING !


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## Kenshai (May 31, 2009)

WaroDaBeast said:


> I bought the G15 because I wanted backlit keys, multimedia keys and macros. The LCD screen is a nice addition, though I do think it is limited in use. Besides, the ability to deactivate the Windows key can come in handy. Other than that, I wanted a keyboard that doesn't wear out after a year of use or so, and since newer low end keyboard never seem to last long...
> 
> But yeah, I'm pretty sure there are keyboard that sport better build quality out there.



How long have you had the keyboard? Those keys will wear off fast, by fast I mean as little as two weeks.


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## trickson (May 31, 2009)

Kenshai said:


> How long have you had the keyboard? Those keys will wear off fast, by fast I mean as little as two weeks.



How can the keys wear off ? they are back lit and well are not painted on so you must not have a G15 as I do and I have not seen any thing waring off at all . 8 months now and still going strong !


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## kurosagi01 (May 31, 2009)

a lot of logitech keyboard discussion here lol; what you guys think of razer arctosa?? i'm very interested in that keyboard =p
check out my current keyboard lol:


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## trickson (May 31, 2009)

kurosagi01 said:


> a lot of logitech keyboard discussion here lol; what you guys think of razer arctosa?? i'm very interested in that keyboard =p
> check out my current keyboard lol:
> http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/story/MultiMedia-Keyboard.jpg



Never had one always had myself the Logitech key boards why get some thing els ? When logitech has PROVEN it's self as a rock solid brand ?


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## Kenshai (May 31, 2009)

trickson said:


> How can the keys wear off ? they are back lit and well are not painted on so you must not have a G15 as I do and I have not seen any thing waring off at all . 8 months now and still going strong !



When my room mate gets up I'll grab you pictures of this original G15 that I had.

I'm not saying logitech isn't a good grand. I'm simply saying that their quality isn't top notch.


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

the keys on the Logitech G15 are painted orange. LED are underneath.


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## trickson (May 31, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> the keys on the Logitech G15 are painted orange. LED are underneath.



Never the less I have yet to see any of the keys paint wearing off . should I post up my key board as well ?


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## Kenshai (May 31, 2009)

trickson said:


> Never the less I have yet to see any of the keys paint wearing off . should I post up my key board as well ?



Nope it's just a matter of time, unless they changed their method of coloring the keys.


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## HookeyStreet (May 31, 2009)

Pricetag lol


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## trickson (May 31, 2009)

Kenshai said:


> Nope it's just a matter of time, unless they changed their method of coloring the keys.



Maybe they have ????


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## Mussels (May 31, 2009)

kurosagi01 said:


> a lot of logitech keyboard discussion here lol; what you guys think of razer arctosa?? i'm very interested in that keyboard =p
> check out my current keyboard lol:
> http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/story/MultiMedia-Keyboard.jpg



i have three of those in my spares piles, just the beige model. I consider them to be great keyboards - i've had 'gaming' models worse. give em about 2 years for the keys to start getting harder to hit, another year before they start to stick - and throw em out. shift key, space bar, or enter tends to stick first.


Maybe logitech did change the painting method. there are rev 1 and rev 2 G15's.


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

you have only been using the G15 for 8 months and probably not as excessively as some. google "g15 paint keys"


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## Kenshai (May 31, 2009)

trickson said:


> Maybe they have ????



I'm assuming you have the second model, the 2007 version with the screen that doesn't flip?


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## trickson (May 31, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> you have only been using the G15 for 8 months and probably not as excessively as some. google "g15 paint keys"


Well that depends I game for about 8 hours a day every day ! 



Kenshai said:


> I'm assuming you have the second model, the 2007 version with the screen that doesn't flip?


Yes I have the one that is stationary .


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## computertechy (May 31, 2009)

FYI dont buy a razer lycosa they are horrible!

i bought 1 to replace my g15(due to the size) on my main rig and ended up placing it on my server instead!

razer can only make mice!


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

you will find people who game 15-25 hours and scrim 5 times a week complaining about the paint coming off. supposably Logitech has changed paint formulas in newer models but paint is paint.


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## intel igent (May 31, 2009)

i use a micro$haft digital media pro kb and it work's fine for me! the best part is it cost me $30 on sale at futureshop! 

has more feature's than i can shake a stick at and that i'll prolly never use! 

only thing i hate about it is the windows key but it look's like with that proggie bumblebee linked i can disable it, yay!


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## trickson (May 31, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> you will find people who game 15-25 hours and scrim 5 times a week complaining about the paint coming off. supposably Logitech has changed paint formulas in newer models but paint is paint.



What ever bro . I love the logitechs not just for key boards but cam's and mice and speakers you seem to have a single minded HATE for them dissing them through out this thread that is your opinion on them and that is fine I am stating facts about them as I have used logitech's products for over 10 years and have yet to see any proof as to your claims is all .


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## kurosagi01 (May 31, 2009)

computertechy said:


> FYI dont buy a razer lycosa they are horrible!
> 
> i bought 1 to replace my g15(due to the size) on my main rig and ended up placing it on my server instead!
> 
> razer can only make mice!



I wasn't planning on getting a lycosa if i did decide to buy a new keyboard lol i like the arctosa keyboard =p i got the mice i want which is the intellimouse explorer 3.0; now i need a keyboard which handles nicely for fps games,so would you guys reconmend a arctosa??


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

I don't hate them I own lots of Logitech products (Z-5500, G51 X-540, Z-680, G5) so I have probably spent more money on Logitech than you have. they just have poor build quality they never do things right the first time always revisions and i'm not talking about the G series keyboard i'm talking about all their products speakers and mice.


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## computertechy (May 31, 2009)

kurosagi01 said:


> I wasn't planning on getting a lycosa if i did decide to buy a new keyboard lol i like the arctosa keyboard =p i got the mice i want which is the intellimouse explorer 3.0; now i need a keyboard which handles nicely for fps games,so would you guys reconmend a arctosa??



tbh in my opinion Logitech g15, Hands down!


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## kurosagi01 (May 31, 2009)

the G15 is quite out of my expenditure i would spend on a keyboard lol i am considering arctosa silver edition because it match my case or maybe get a G11 which cost an extra £5


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## DrPepper (May 31, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> you will find people who game 15-25 hours and scrim 5 times a week complaining about the paint coming off. supposably Logitech has changed paint formulas in newer models but paint is paint.



I've got 3 G15's and they are used well over 7 hours a day and the one I'm using is about 15 hours a day 7 days a week because I've nothing else to do and the paint is fine. Honestly your just nit picking about features that don't have an impact on its performance.


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## computertechy (May 31, 2009)

trickson said:


> What ever bro . I love the logitechs not just for key boards but cam's and mice and speakers you seem to have a single minded HATE for them dissing them through out this thread that is your opinion on them and that is fine I am stating facts about them as I have used logitech's products for over 10 years and have yet to see any proof as to your claims is all .



and what do you mean what ever!

i got my g15(i have no problem with logitech at all!) when it was first released and that paint has worn off the keys but the newer revisions dont

so please dont post if you dont know what you talking about and please google, G15 paint keys!


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## Kenshai (May 31, 2009)

trickson said:


> What ever bro . I love the logitechs not just for key boards but cam's and mice and speakers you seem to have a single minded HATE for them dissing them through out this thread that is your opinion on them and that is fine I am stating facts about them as I have used logitech's products for over 10 years and have yet to see any proof as to your claims is all .



I really can't complain about my current mouse and keyboard, using the Wave, ya not the best but was readily available for relatively cheap. As for mouse I'm using the bundled mouse and don't have any issues at all with either one of em.


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## trickson (May 31, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> I've got 3 G15's and they are used well over 7 hours a day and the one I'm using is about 15 hours a day 7 days a week because I've nothing else to do and the paint is fine. Honestly your just nit picking about features that don't have an impact on its performance.



+1 !!! 

If you do not like the product that is fine but for goodness sake stop dissing it ! This is for you computertechy as well .


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## intel igent (May 31, 2009)

@ bumblebee: thnx for posting the link to the "hotkeys" thingy and also thnx for posting the info within regard's to the different type's of switche's used in kb's


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> I've got 3 G15's and they are used well over 7 hours a day and the one I'm using is about 15 hours a day 7 days a week because I've nothing else to do and the paint is fine. Honestly your just nit picking about features that don't have an impact on its performance.



not being able to see a translucent key does not impact performance?



intel igent said:


> @ bumblebee: thnx for posting the link to the "hotkeys" thingy and also thnx for posting the info within regard's to the different type's of switche's used in kb's



welcome hon.

anyways heres another keyboard I left out

Enermax Aurora it's brushed aluminum housing with scissor switches cost $60-75 USD comes in Black or Silver has terrific reviews would give you a little more performance, quieter and look nice next to a Lian Li.


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## computertechy (May 31, 2009)

trickson said:


> +1 !!!
> 
> If you do not like the product that is fine but for goodness sake stop dissing it ! This is for you computertechy as well .



shut up please! i have no problem with logitech and love my g15

here is a picture of my g15 to prove the paint wears off! get your facts straight!


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## trickson (May 31, 2009)

computertechy said:


> shut up please! i have no problem with logitech and love my g15
> 
> here is a picture of my g15 to prove the paint wears off! get your facts straight!
> 
> http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt110/computertechy/IMAG0018.jpg



You got it I am going to SHUT UP NOW !


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

trickson you need to accept it these are not opinions these are known facts about the keyboard.


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## DrPepper (May 31, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> not being able to see a translucent key does not impact performance?



Early models do use a paint that wears out but logitech changed the mixture early on. Only a small batch use that old mixture. About 3% of G15's probably have the old mixture. You won't hear from everyone who's keys are fine only those who's have worn off.


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## computertechy (May 31, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> trickson you need to accept it these are not opinions these are known facts about the keyboard.



+100000000

Thank you!

i am not meaning to diss anything at all!, all i am just saying is this is what happened to mine, doesn't mean it will happen to newer revisions!


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## trickson (May 31, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> trickson you need to accept it these are not opinions these are known facts about the keyboard.



WOW you should also NOTE that I also have stated Facts biased on MY OWN EXPERIENCE ! 
But again I am supposed to shut up ...


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

your making numbers up. I don't know the exact date they changed the paint but paint is paint and there is no way to tell if you got a old one or new one and I already mentioned this a few posts up.


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## computertechy (May 31, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> your making numbers up. I don't know the exact date they changed the paint but paint is paint and there is no way to tell if you got a old one or new one and I already mentioned this a few posts up.



that is true but atleast they have actualy bothered to rectify the problem! that makes logitech a valued company


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## DrPepper (May 31, 2009)

I did make those up it was an estimate but I remember when I got my keyboard early on I did alot of research on the worn out keys and I remember reading an email from logitech support and do you know what they do with keyboards with worn out paint ? they replace them with a whole new keyboard with the new paint.

http://forums.logitech.com/logitech/board/message?board.id=hardware&thread.id=303

Proof that logitech replaces the keyboard with old paint within warranty.


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## Kenshai (May 31, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> I did make those up it was an estimate but I remember when I got my keyboard early on I did alot of research on the worn out keys and I remember reading an email from logitech support and do you know what they do with keyboards with worn out paint ? they replace them with a whole new keyboard with the new paint.



Actually, they were replacing them for a long time with keyboard with the same old paint. Happened to me, numerous threads on the net about the problem. Logitech knew there was a problem but didn't fix it for a while.


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## DrPepper (May 31, 2009)

> Hi,
> 
> 
> Thank you for the reply. I am glad to hear that you have managed to get the support of your friend to have this solved. As you have mentioned, the earlier batches of G5 did had the fading key issue but based on feedback form user, Logitech has looked into the matter and had it rectified.
> ...



Taken from logitechs forums and this was posted in 2006.


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## Mussels (May 31, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> Taken from logitechs forums and this was posted in 2006.



what a flowery, buttered up reply from logitech. i usually get robots asking me for information i've already provided them, and when i point that out i get totally ignored.


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## intel igent (May 31, 2009)

trickson said:


> WOW you should also NOTE that I also have stated Facts biased on MY OWN EXPERIENCE !
> But again I am supposed to shut up ...



the key word in this ^^ post is "biased"

carry on


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## DrPepper (May 31, 2009)

Mussels said:


> what a flowery, buttered up reply from logitech. i usually get robots asking me for information i've already provided them, and when i point that out i get totally ignored.



I've never had a problem though and you don't have proof muhahaha


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## kurosagi01 (May 31, 2009)

this gone to discussing about G15 keyboard now?? lol so whats better arctosa or G11??


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

Enermax Caesar it's brushed aluminum housing with a mesh has scissor switches cost $65-75 USD comes in Black  has built in audio chip, usb ports, 3 rubber height adjustments, extended wrist rest.


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## DrPepper (May 31, 2009)

kurosagi01 said:


> this gone to discussing about G15 keyboard now?? lol so whats better arctosa or G11??



arctosa looks better imo but the g11 has more functionality with the G key's and the media pad on it. 

I really like that arctosa now I've had a good look at it


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## Kenshai (May 31, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> Enermax Caesar it's brushed aluminum housing with a mesh has scissor switches cost $65-75 USD comes in Black  has built in audio chip, usb ports, 3 rubber height adjustments, extended wrist rest.
> http://i39.tinypic.com/ml3t54.jpg



Now that is a good looking keyboard, will probably be in my future. The only problem with the last scissor switch keyboard I had is that sometimes it would release a key if I didn't have enough pressure on it.


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

here is another picture of it.


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## trickson (May 31, 2009)

kurosagi01 said:


> this gone to discussing about G15 keyboard now?? lol so whats better arctosa or G11??



http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=razer_arctosa&num=3

http://techgage.com/article/logitech_g11_gaming_keyboard/3

Just some I found .


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## kurosagi01 (May 31, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> arctosa looks better imo but the g11 has more functionality with the G key's and the media pad on it.
> 
> I really like that arctosa now I've had a good look at it



haha glad you mention that  arctosa is a really nice looking keyboard,specially the black edition but whats bad about it is you can't see the key notes because the letters are in black aswell so its hard to see them lol.The silver edition is nice though; looks painted with lighter black and you can see the letters not like the black edition


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## DrPepper (May 31, 2009)

I'd swap my g15 for that actrosa btw  I love its looks.


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## kurosagi01 (May 31, 2009)

lol cheapest arctosa i can find so far:
Silver edition:
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Razer-Arctosa-Silver-Keyboard
Black edition:
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Raze...rogrammable-Gaming-Keyboard-with-Hyperesponse


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

whats the difference between the Lycosa and Arctosa they look the same?


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## DrPepper (May 31, 2009)

Lycosa has blue LED's thats the only visual difference I saw at a quick glance.


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## kurosagi01 (May 31, 2009)

the silver edition of arctosa has blue LEDs aswell i think on the keypads


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## computertechy (May 31, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> whats the difference between the Lycosa and Arctosa they look the same?



mostly the software from the drivers i think and they are named different LOL


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## DrPepper (May 31, 2009)

I'd rather get the silver arctosa tbh. Looks very sleek.


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

thats retarded. Lycosa is $80 and Arctosa is $45 why would anybody want the Lycosa so the Arctosa doesn't have the non-slip rubber.


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## Kenshai (May 31, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> thats retarded. Lycosa is $80 and Arctosa is $45 why would anybody want the Lycosa so the Arctosa doesn't have the non-slip rubber.



I think that's the only difference, and is completely not worth nearly double the price.


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

> According to Razer's posted technical specifications, the only difference between the old Lycosa and the new Arctosa is the lack of backlit illumination and the loss of the pass-through audio (headphone/microphone) and USB jacks. Specifically, all of the following Arctosa features are also present on the Lycosa, with exception of the Internet connection system requirement which I will discuss later.



heh like I would hook up any connections to my keyboard anyways. sadly people would still pay the extra money for the LED's.


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## Kantastic (May 31, 2009)

DreamSeller said:


> lol that Logitech G15 is like 100 bux cheapest i could find ... :\




It's like 60-70 on Amazon.


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

he lives in Russia or somewhere around there didn't you get the Ruble joke I made earlier?



BumbleBee said:


> DreamSeller it's not worth it not for all the rubles in the world. by the way the Saitek Eclipse has laser etched keys not paint like the G15! and I just use start -> run -> calc


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## Mussels (May 31, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> heh like I would hook up any connections to my keyboard anyways. sadly people would still pay the extra money for the LED's.



USB jacks would be useful for me, perfect place for the receiver for a cordless mouse, or a flash drive in a hurry (2  front USB ports on a case isnt enough for me, most of the time)

I'd potentially use the headphone jack too, depending on how it affected quality.


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## Kenshai (May 31, 2009)

Mussels said:


> USB jacks would be useful for me, perfect place for the receiver for a cordless mouse, or a flash drive in a hurry (2  front USB ports on a case isnt enough for me, most of the time)
> 
> I'd potentially use the headphone jack too, depending on how it affected quality.



Well from my experience with my USB speakers, it's actually kind of annoying when you plug in something to one of these usb based devices, simply because it takes control of the driver and makes it the primary audio device. Just more settings to mess with when you stop using it.

The quality is going to be relatively good based on that it's a digital signal.


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## Mussels (May 31, 2009)

Kenshai said:


> Well from my experience with my USB speakers, it's actually kind of annoying when you plug in something to one of these usb based devices, simply because it takes control of the driver and makes it the primary audio device. Just more settings to mess with when you stop using it.



doesnt work that way in vista and 7 anymore.

I use a USB headset just for the mic, plugging and unplugging it only sets the mic, leaving the speakers as they were.


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## Kenshai (May 31, 2009)

Mussels said:


> doesnt work that way in vista and 7 anymore.
> 
> I use a USB headset just for the mic, plugging and unplugging it only sets the mic, leaving the speakers as they were.



I'm having issues then, will have to figure that out.


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## Mussels (May 31, 2009)

Kenshai said:


> I'm having issues then, will have to figure that out.



try setting the default devices as you want them. I set the USB mic to default and the speakers to default - if i unplug the USB mic it reverts to the sound cards mic port, but upon plugging it back in it automatically restores it to the USB.

My sound card doesnt support jack sensing, if thats relevant somehow.


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## kurosagi01 (May 31, 2009)

i would love to have to just plug in my headset and mic to my keyboard =p so i might lean onto the arctosa


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## intel igent (May 31, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> sadly people would still pay the extra money for the LED's.



i would think that any true PC user or gamng enthusiast would know where the key's are WITHOUT looking at the board? heck my mom is almost 50 and she could type 99% of people under the table with her eye's closed and her finger's tied behind her back! 

i think someone mentioned it earlier in the thread? most of it is marketing and the people who are subdued by it


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

yeah it was me. 



BumbleBee said:


> I should of said this yesterday would of made me a lot less enemies
> 
> *Logitech is like McDonald's Just because McDonald's sells the most burgers in the world, do they make the best burger? no.* there is technology and build quality far greater than Logitech in fact I can't think of a Keyboard worse than Logitech and if you guys think so highly of Logitech then that should be taken as a compliment but I put Logitech at the low end of Keyboards you can buy because there is nothing lower than a plastic housing with rubber domes switches.



Logitech G15 probably cost $15-20 tops to manufacture and I am being generous with that because it uses almost the same materials as this model so they are selling it 3-4 times as high thats a pretty big markup and of course keyboard technology is very overlooked so the sales greatly depend on brand name if every gamer had the insight into keyboards like me the Logitech G15 wouldn't exist.


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## trickson (May 31, 2009)

I don't know this thread is so far off base so off topic and all about vendor bashing of logitech . If they are so very bad and of poor quality then why are they the main stream of most pc users ? I do not mean to say that there are not better key boards out there and that some will be far better than logitech in terms of material used but really how bad does it have to be to just diss them all ? And to keep it up for 4 pages ? Then tell me to shut up when I state the facts as I see them as well I have a lot of logitech stuff and have used them with out fail for over 10 years now ? 
I am sure that there are way better key boards out there made of steel and hardend heat prof plastic's but how hard do you have to be on a key board that you need one built out of titanium ?


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## intel igent (May 31, 2009)

trickson said:


> I don't know this thread is so far off base so off topic and all about vendor bashing of logitech . If they are so very bad and of poor quality then why are they the main stream of most pc users ? I do not mean to say that there are not better key boards out there and that some will be far better than logitech in terms of material used but really how bad does it have to be to just diss them all ? And to keep it up for 4 pages ? Then tell me to shut up when I state the facts as I see them as well I have a lot of logitech stuff and have used them with out fail for over 10 years now ?
> I am sure that there are way better key boards out there made of steel and hardend heat prof plastic's but how hard do you have to be on a key board that you need one built out of titanium ?



a lil' case of "you can't handle the truth" i think? maybe? 

i don't see any logitech bashing going on here, only fact's.

i do however see you getting very defensive/offensive to certain post's....

most, if not all, of ANY mfg's sale's are directly correlated to their marketing strategy.


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## Kenshai (May 31, 2009)

trickson said:


> I don't know this thread is so far off base so off topic and all about vendor bashing of logitech . If they are so very bad and of poor quality then why are they the main stream of most pc users ? I do not mean to say that there are not better key boards out there and that some will be far better than logitech in terms of material used but really how bad does it have to be to just diss them all ? And to keep it up for 4 pages ? Then tell me to shut up when I state the facts as I see them as well I have a lot of logitech stuff and have used them with out fail for over 10 years now ?
> I am sure that there are way better key boards out there made of steel and hardend heat prof plastic's but how hard do you have to be on a key board that you need one built out of titanium ?



Techy wasn't bashing, he was pointing out a flaw that the keyboards have. It's more of a review than bashing. On  the other note, you stated you've never used anything else, so you can't really be a judge on what is high quality or what is low quality.


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

I don't think so. we are discussing gaming keyboards what makes one. Logitech is the biggest manufacturer and you know what the internet is a cesspool for sins so if you can't handle a little criticism maybe you shouldn't use it. you keep defending the G15 and your wrong and you are getting your ass handed to you by a woman no less. we get it you love your G15. am I supposed to take your word the G15 is the best keyboard in the world? I have given facts and who gives a sh*t how I present my case facts are facts i'm no editor lol


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## tong (May 31, 2009)

Everyone needs to calm down jeez. 

 Anyways, did a quick skim of the posts and didn't see this one mentioned anywhere:  Saitek Eclipse.  Simplistic great key feel, and now that they fixed their paint issues, the keys don't wear off.  I've owned it since the 2006ish and have never had a problem, game on it CONSTANTLY and there's been no issues, only thing i think that has changed about the keyboard is the led's have gotten dimmer, then again I only noticed it after i switched to an LCD so the extra brightness of it might of dimmed out the keyboard.

Edit: I tried the logitech keyboards out and wasn't personally thrilled with the key feel (but that's my opinion).  However, in my professional opinion (slept at a motel 6 last night) Their Mice are the best (once they hit revision 2)


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## trickson (May 31, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> I don't think so. we are discussing gaming keyboards what makes one. Logitech is the biggest manufacturer and you know what the internet is a cesspool for sins so if you can't handle a little criticism maybe you shouldn't use it. you keep defending the G15 and your wrong and you are getting your ass handed to you by a woman no less we get it you love your G15.



What it seems like is you can not handle MY truth of the matter you are getting all defensive calling me out telling me I am getting my ass handed to me by a women no less . 

I have stated facts and told what I think of your comments on the quality of the product just because some have had a bad experience with them doesn't make them all bad or of poor quality . You talk as if you hate the logitech's stating things like poor quality and I merely refute your accusations with my own experience and you talk down to me as if to dissmiss my thoughts because you are better than me . Well so be it . YES the logitech G15 is a very niece key board they are all nice key boards and of good quality . I am sure if one looked hard enough they would find fault in any manufactures products .  

Stop slamming me for my personal experience .


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

does darksaber hate a case when he marks the cons in his reviews? you bought a $80 piece of junk how do you like them apples.


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## tong (May 31, 2009)

To be honest i think you should both stop it and get back on topic.

I don't think I've read the answer to the original question on this topic... maybe one of you would care to enlighten us? 

Or are we wasting extra money to buy stuff that says "gaming" but in reality has no difference?
Kinda like buying knock off tools and trusting them just because it says "professional grade" on them


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## erocker (May 31, 2009)

Any more back an forth arguing towards one another in this thread will result in infractions.  This is your only warning.  I suggest you just leave this thread alone now.


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## intel igent (May 31, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> does darksaber hate a case when he marks the cons in his reviews? you bought a $80 piece of junk how do you like them apples.





one thing i have learned is NEVER argue with an idiot! they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience


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## kurosagi01 (May 31, 2009)

tong said:


> To be honest i think you should both stop it and get back on topic.
> 
> I don't think I've read the answer to the original question on this topic... maybe one of you would care to enlighten us?
> 
> ...



pretty much i'm asking whats the difference in a standard keyboard to a gaming keyboard?
like..logitech ultra flat keyboard(£10 standard keyboard) to a razer arctosa or logitech G11&G15?


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## trickson (May 31, 2009)

tong said:


> To be honest i think you should both stop it and get back on topic.
> 
> I don't think I've read the answer to the original question on this topic... maybe one of you would care to enlighten us?
> 
> ...



No a gaming key board like the G11 and G15 have macro keys on them have a switch that allows for normal operation and gaming operation so hitting the " wrong" key wont put you in windows or mess the game play up . some are illuminated helping you see keys in dark areas . I think that a gaming key board is good for people like me that seem to hit the wrong keys at the wrong time and have found it very helpful as well .


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

it's a gimmick just like other Logitech products for example the g9 specs. they list the max speed, max acceleration and usb report. the max speed of a mouse depends on the surface. max acceleration has more to do with windows than games usually in games this is already overridden and if we had a choice we would use zero acceleration in favor of more precision. max usb report can be changed to 1000hz no matter what mouse you use. macros can be programmed without Logitech drivers and with any keyboard and you can disable the windows key at will. and if your heart is set on LED's there is half a dozen guides on the internet to show you how to do it.

as Dennis Leary says "coffee doesn't need a menu! it needs a fu*kin cup!" all that matters is the switches and build quality.


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## tong (May 31, 2009)

@ bumbleBee thank you for clarifying a huge chunk of that.  Going to play with some settings now that you've brought that to our attention 

I however am way to lazzy to go ahead and wire up LED's to a keyboard, if i calculate the amount of time it would take me to solder up smd's to a keyboard to get the same effect as what i can purchase, then i have seriously wasted money (time is money). But for those that chose to do so... more power to you.  

I guess if everything bumblebee stated in his previous post is correct than the only real difference i can see between the two is the macro keys, yes you don't need a fancy keyboard to do them but it does come in handy.


My experience is:  love the illumination, still look down at the keyboard to type after all these years, and when i try not to  my fat fingers get it all wrong.


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## tong (May 31, 2009)

@ OP

go to the store and try each keyboard out, get one that has the right key feel for you.  I bought plenty of products that had great features, but when i got them..... they didn't feel right.  It being your money, go try each of them out, then do research on the ones you narrowed it down to... then purchase it.

Example: The original Ideazon gaming keyboard, god that thing sucked, yeah you could change keys and go from office functionality to gaming, but i couldn't stand having to stab each key with  superman force for it to recognize what i was typing.  And the gaming function of it wasn't that great either for the same reason.


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## kurosagi01 (May 31, 2009)

tong said:


> @ OP
> 
> go to the store and try each keyboard out, get one that has the right key feel for you.  I bought plenty of products that had great features, but when i got them..... they didn't feel right.  It being your money, go try each of them out, then do research on the ones you narrowed it down to... then purchase it.



well i'm used to flat keypads since i own one and i like it,reason i'm using this chunky keyboard because its my back-up keyboard and the flat one broke on me.
I'm interested in the arctosa silver or black,maybe the G11 but i am looking for one that would match the black silverstone case i am using,most of my hardware is black apart from the monitor which is silver but it stands out a lot so i'm not bothered about it. And none of my stores have a G11 or a arctosa so i can't try them out. =/ its either arctosa or g11


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## tong (May 31, 2009)

Seeing as i own one:

Saitek Eclipse or Eclipse II ( didn't personally need anything the Eclipse II offered).


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## kurosagi01 (May 31, 2009)

this the saitek eclipse II your talking about?? it looks weird to me lol.
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Sait...Lit-Purple-Red-plus-Blue-Keys-USB-11-20-Black


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## tong (May 31, 2009)

Yes that's the eclipse II, main differences are : it can do blue red or purple LED's (use a button to switch it) and the volume knob is a rotary knob instead of buttons as in the eclipse both offer varying levels of brightness on the led's or u can shut them off.  My main reason for the love on the keyboard is it's simplicity and key feel.

The front wrist wrest comes off or adjusts to closer to the keyboard (definitely makes it look weird that spaced out).  The eclipse II is a little larger than the regular Eclipse


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## kurosagi01 (May 31, 2009)

what i don't like is the design really but i guess the built quality is good?


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## DrPepper (May 31, 2009)

Difference between a standard keyboard and gaming:

Gaming keyboard is all glitz up and designed to appeal to gamers using lights, fancy keys and screen's etc. Normal keyboards are just for typing maybe a few media keys etc. Pretty much all keyboards on the market even the incredibly cheap ones are well built and will last a long time.


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## kurosagi01 (May 31, 2009)

so is my crappy microsoft keyboard okay for gaming?? lol the buttons are really chunky to press and i can type without looking down on the keyboard,i can do this with pretty much any keyboard.


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## BumbleBee (May 31, 2009)

look at this bad boy looks original and european. I want it.


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## intel igent (May 31, 2009)

the only issue i have ever encountered while gaming with my micro$haft digital media pro kb is the stupid window's button!  but thnx to bumblebee posting the link to the "hotkeys" thingy i can turn the damn thing off now! 

 this is my kb for refference http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823109029

hasn't let me down in 4 year's! i even bought it @ futuresh1t


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## Hayder_Master (May 31, 2009)

the game keyboard will be  better quality , nice design , expensive 
you can check razor keyboards and you can see extreme gaming keyboard


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## RadeonX2 (Jun 1, 2009)

You can fancy up your El cheapo keyboard by painting it. I think the name of the canned spray that you should use is Acrylic epoxy but I'm not sure about it.

here's what I've found by googling
some nice paint mod










Now I wanna paint mod my keyboard


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## intel igent (Jun 1, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> look at this bad boy looks original and european. I want it.



COOL! IIRC micro$haft also has something similar but not as "edgy" in it's design and is "fluffed" up for us NA resident's  i would assume that a kb that style would reduce fatigue due to the ergonomic's? which would inturn lead to better "gameability" i would imagine 

now you guy's got me wanting another kb! 

for plastic paint use either krylon branded plastic paint or if you are serious about the durability go to a hobby store and get some Tamiya or Pactra plastic paint


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## DrPepper (Jun 1, 2009)

kurosagi01 said:


> so is my crappy microsoft keyboard okay for gaming?? lol the buttons are really chunky to press and i can type without looking down on the keyboard,i can do this with pretty much any keyboard.



Yeah its fine tbh I still use my generic keyboard because its really light. I doubt any keyboard will make you better in games. If you can touch type with that keyboard then any should be fine.


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## BumbleBee (Jun 1, 2009)

like I said to Dippy mechanical keyboards give you a leg up, if you want to be a better gamer take 40mg of Dextroamphetamine before a match then you can talk about neruotransmitters in a interview with Steve Kroft on  60 minutes like Johnathan Wendel...


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## selway89 (Jun 1, 2009)

Ok so after catching up with all this arguing id thought id provide some info.

I had a Logitech UltraX keyboard which I loved. But the keyboard raisers broke and it started to become abit clickity etc.

I had looked at the new Microsoft Sidewinder keyboard, but didnt see the need for allot of the buttons etc. So ended up going for a solid medium between your so called "gaming" keyboards and standard.

I now have the Logitech Illuminated keyboard which I think is fantastic.
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keyboards/keyboard/devices/4740&cl=US,EN
Has illuminated white keys with different brightness settings, media keys etc. Good solid build quality!

Build quality between this and the "gaming" Microsoft sidewinder I tested in a store does not vary much if at all in my opinion. So i guess gaming keyboards could be classed as slightly glorified high qaulity boards, with some tailored buttons. Again largely down to marketing too.


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## tong (Jun 1, 2009)

selway89 said:


> So i guess gaming keyboards could be classed as slightly glorified high qaulity boards, with some tailored buttons. Again largely down to marketing too.





That's what we're trying to determine and seems to be going taht way.  To the OP yes the build quality is excellent.


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## Mussels (Jun 1, 2009)

a few comments were wrong on the saitek II.

1. it looks weird because the palm rest can slide out from the keyboard, and its at max distance in the pic that was provided.

2. That turn dial is for brightness of the LED's, NOT for volume.

3. You can slap someone in the face with it, and it'll still work. its very tough.


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## iandh (Jun 1, 2009)

Honestly I was a gaming keyboard hater for some time, but that changed when I got my Sidewinder X6:










Here's a list of reasons why I find this superior to a normal keyboard (for me personally):

-The numpad switches to the left side; standard keyboards with right-handed keypads suck because I am left-handed.

-The numpad is removable making it a compact keyboard with a somewhat full size style key layout.

-The backlighting is great because I like to game in a darkened room and my monitor is on a mount too high to light my keyboard.

-It has a large and easy to reach volume knob that feels and works great. Volume +/- buttons SUCK imo. It also has a nice backlight dimmer knob which seems cheesy but is actually nice. 

-It is built like a tank, very solid and even a bit heavy I'd say. It stays put on my desk.

-At the price I got it from newegg (~$60), it is only slightly more expensive than a decent low end standard keyboard, but is vastly superior in both quality and functionality.


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## BumbleBee (Jun 1, 2009)

well to save everybody from embarassing themselves any further I wanted to post this link it's an article and discussion about mechanical keyboards it has listings, tips and tricks, personal reviews, myths, logitech arguments, etc. even logitech fans should read this it's important to all gamers. if this can't convince you to "accidently" spill your beverage on your keyboard I don't know what else will. thankfully a couple of you have seen the darkness only if I had more minions...

http://www.overclock.net/computer-peripherals/491752-good-keyboard-guide.html


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## tong (Jun 1, 2009)

Very nice bumblebee, gonna have to bookmark that and hit it up once i get home. 

@ mussels, thanks for clearing it up, my bud owns the eclipse II i was going from memory and got a few things wrong, but you are correct u can slap some one in the face with it and plug it back in.


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## BumbleBee (Jun 1, 2009)

heh when the Gigabyte GK-K8000 was release last year TPU had a news post the original MSRP was 60 euros I think and everybody was like "zomg  I hope it comes with a blonde with big t*ts and a hat full of viagra" the news poster neglected to mention the keyboard was mechanical!


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## Mussels (Jun 1, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> heh when the Gigabyte GK-K8000 was release last year TPU had a news post the original MSRP was 60 euros I think and everybody was like "zomg  I hope it comes with a blonde with big t*ts and a hat full of viagra" the news poster neglected to mention the keyboard was mechanical!



newsposters post what they are sent. if the press release doesnt mention it, they dont post it.


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## BumbleBee (Jun 1, 2009)

Mussels said:


> newsposters post what they are sent. if the press release doesnt mention it, they dont post it.



what are you talking about nothing is sent to them oh maybe the eVGA boards the reps mass emailed that to everybody last week but everything they write is just reworded from another site.


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## EviLZeD (Jun 1, 2009)

Id agree with the G15 not being very high quality i got it on release the silver paint has worn off where you put your palm but the but the keys are still perfectly fine(no worn of paint or watever) id say its still worth it considering ive had it for 2+ years now.


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## Mussels (Jun 1, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> what are you talking about nothing is sent to them oh maybe the eVGA boards the reps mass emailed that to everybody last week but everything they write is just reworded from another site.



lol... quite a lot of the news here comes from emails sent to news@techpowerup.com


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## BumbleBee (Jun 1, 2009)

you mean they don't chase it down anymore?


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## Mussels (Jun 1, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> you mean they don't chase it down anymore?



they do. is it hard to comprehend multiple sources for the news?


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## BumbleBee (Jun 1, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plWnm7UpsXk


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## kurosagi01 (Jun 1, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> well to save everybody from embarassing themselves any further I wanted to post this link it's an article and discussion about mechanical keyboards it has listings, tips and tricks, personal reviews, myths, logitech arguments, etc. even logitech fans should read this it's important to all gamers. if this can't convince you to "accidently" spill your beverage on your keyboard I don't know what else will. thankfully a couple of you have seen the darkness only if I had more minions...
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/computer-peripherals/491752-good-keyboard-guide.html



i guess that sums it up i surpose lol so there is no need for people to buy a "gaming" keyboard but use a normal keyboard which can perform the same? i'm pretty sure most keyboard can do "ghosting" now but i think most people would want good response time with there keyboards?


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## BumbleBee (Jun 1, 2009)

the only thing that matters is the switches and build quality, switches are all different for example Alps are tactile and clicky, Cherry MX Blue are tactile and clicky, Cherry MX Black are non tactile and non clicky, Cherry MX Brown are non tactile but clicky. some favor applications more than others but just about any application will receive a basic benefit. 



> Polling Rates and Response Times
> While it is very useful for mice, it's jest about meaningless for keyboards. Let's assume for a minute that all switches have the 5ms debouncing time of Cherry MX switches (which is being very generous). Even if you had super human speed and reflexes, every single key would be delayed by at least that much. So really, any polling rate over 200Hz (at best) is absolutely useless, and nothing but market hype. It may even be a bit detrimental, because you'd be wasting CPU time polling the keyboard unneededly. And unlike USB keyboards, PS/2 boards aren't polled at all. They simply send the signal to the PC whenever they are ready to, which causes a hardware interrupt, forcing the CPU to register that keystroke.





> PS/2 or USB?
> PS/2 wins on three fronts: First, it supports full n-key rollover. Second, PS/2 keyboards aren't polled, but are completely interrupt based. And third, it is impossible for it to be delayed by the USB bus being used by other devices. There are two types of USB transfer modes - the interrupt transfer mode (USB polls keyboard, when key is sensed the USB controller sends the interrupt to the CPU), and the isochronous transfer mode, which reserves a certain amount of bandwidth for the keyboard with a guaranteed latency on the bus. Unfortunately, there are absolutely no keyboards made that use the latter, because special controllers would have to be used, thus making it cost prohibitive.
> 
> So if your keyboard supports both PS/2 and USB, and your PC has a PS/2 port, there's no reason not to use it.





> Key Bouncing
> All types of key switches - including rubber domes - do this. When you press a key, the switch "bounces" on and off very quickly as it sets into place. This causes keys to register multiple times for each press. Because of this, keyboards need to implement some sort of debouncing delay - so that once you press a key, the controller waits a certain amount of time before registering a keypress. As an example, Cherry MX switches need 5ms of debouncing time, while rubber domes need longer (exactly how long depends on their quality).



both the Logitech G15 and Razer Lycosa are native USB and have 1000Hz Polling Rates and since both use Rubber Domes both Keyboards have just about zero tactile response time, speed and lack of multiple keys as marketed. they cost $80 respectively i'm not pissed off but i'm worried why Logitech G15 owners are not...


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jun 1, 2009)

Anyone know were to get this Gigabyte GK-K8000 in the uk,and is it ps/2?

Bumblebee,is there any decent looking ps/2 mechanical keyboards available in the uk? I will buy a mechanical keyboard to try.I really fancy the Gigabyte GK-K8000 if i can find a etailer in the uk.


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## BumbleBee (Jun 1, 2009)

you can buy a USB to PS/2 adapter I got like 4 of them laying around your only choices that I know of for a mechanical keyboard in the uk is the SteelSeries 7G and the iOne Scorpius M10 both have a USB to PS/2 adapters.

heres a preview of the iOne Scorpius M10. just watching him type you can already notice a improvement over a standard keyboard.


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## human_error (Jun 1, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> both the Logitech G15 and Razer Lycosa are native USB and have 1000Hz Polling Rates and since both use Rubber Domes both Keyboards have just about zero tactile response time, speed and lack of multiple keys as marketed. they cost $80 respectively i'm not pissed off but i'm worried why Logitech G15 owners are not...



I've had my G15 (original blue version) for 2 and a half years, i've also got 2 G11s for friends and i love my G15. I've not had any paint wearing off, the keyboard is pretty damn tough as it's undamaged after a lot of abuse (its been used constantly while i've had it). None of the keys stick or are faulty, i've made a good use of the LCD screen and the macro keys are pre-programmed for 2 games and for coding where i can have it type out common sections of code for me instantly (in different projects). I like the feel of the keys while i type, it feels exactly as it did when new. The extra keys for media control, backlighting, good layout and usb ports are all useful features for me. I don't have anything but praise for all my logitech peripherals, i understand some people had issues with a couple of batches of early G15s having paint wear off but since i havn't seen or experienced any problems i couldn't be happier.


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## kurosagi01 (Jun 1, 2009)

damn those are expensive  the total amount of money i would spend on a keyboard be no more than £45(including VAT)


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## BumbleBee (Jun 1, 2009)

yeah and the iOne is actually the cheapest Cherry Switches you can buy. the ABS M1 and Solidtek 6600 are $39-49 they are Alps switches but no where to be found in the UK they are almost half the price of Logitech and Razers gaming keyboards and probably leaves them in the dust too lol. you should go to that overclock link I posted and ask what your options are living in the UK they might know some mom and pop stores or might sell you one.


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## intel igent (Jun 1, 2009)

@ bumblebee: where do we find these nice kb's in Canada?


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## BumbleBee (Jun 1, 2009)

you can get the ABS M1, Filco Majestouch, Gigabyte GK-K8000, Filco Majestouch N-Key Rollover, Das Professional and SteelSeries 7G in Canada.


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## intel igent (Jun 1, 2009)

spank you very much


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## BumbleBee (Jun 1, 2009)

your welcome  Americans are lucky they can purchase the iOne Scorpius M10 that keyboard has tremendous value for it's price tag. my next one will probably be the Gigabyte GK-K8000 since it's only available in Canada and Australia which makes it practically one of a kind also has a similar bundle to the SteelSeries 7G with the carrying case, wrist rest, braided cable, extra set of keys and key changer even has a windows lock key, dedicated macros and it's own sound card with a vista certified integrated C-Media 6300 chip (impressive).


----------



## intel igent (Jun 1, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> you can get the ABS M1, Filco Majestouch, Gigabyte GK-K8000, Filco Majestouch N-Key Rollover, Das Professional and SteelSeries 7G in Canada.



of these board's listed what would you consider the best?


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 1, 2009)

probably the Filco Majestouch N-Key Rollover however the Gigabyte GK-K8000 has a lot of features. you can see the Filco in action here (seek to the dot in the middle of the progress bar)


----------



## kurosagi01 (Jun 1, 2009)

so whats good to have my boring keyboard or a logitech G11 or a razer arctosa? i like the normal eclipse,that just as good as eclipse II?


----------



## trickson (Jun 1, 2009)

I would go for a G11 .


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 1, 2009)

Kuro why don't you get that Scorpius off eBay? probably Arctosa you know how on Razer's website it says it can press 10 Keys Simultaneously well I read this today.



> Screw Razer, its just another cheap keyboard with some fancy backlights. The 7G is tons better - its mechanical, and has FULL n-key rollover, so you can press as many keys as you want all over the board and they will all go through with PS/2 (10 keys with USB). *Razer only does some cheap trick with the WASD cluster, where they put each of those keys on a different circuit on the matrix.* The 7G and DeCK both use diodes on every single key on the entire board so that there's no rollover anywhere.



Razer.. sneaky. even if it's the 4 Keys it probably offers more value than the G11.


----------



## kurosagi01 (Jun 1, 2009)

scorpius p6?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Touchpad-keyb...ms=66:2|65:2|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50
i dunno right now,i'm really leaning on the saitek eclipse,it looks really good and its just as good as eclipse II


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 1, 2009)

iOne Scorpius M10 did you watch that video I posted? shipping will kill you but I think it's still worth it


----------



## kurosagi01 (Jun 1, 2009)

too pricey for me dude =/ i don't want spend a lot of money on a keyboard.not worth spending that much on a keyboard tbh.


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## tong (Jun 1, 2009)

Used both the eclipse (my keyboard) and the eclipse II (my buds) and it's exactly the same keyboard other than the led colors and the couple extra buttons.  That gigabyte keyboard looks sick, but i don;t want to drop that kind of dough on a keyboard and then try it out only to find out i don;t like the key feel.... anyone of those available at a regular retailer bumblebee?


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## BumbleBee (Jun 1, 2009)

Gigabyte GK-K8000 is not available in the US it's been out for a year too I don't know why. but to make up for this the Americans got the iOne Scorpius M10 it's only $49 USD at Amazon they use Cherry MX Blue which favor Typing over Gaming and if you watched the video you can get a sense if it is for you to be honest I have never heard anyone complain about Mechanical Switches except for the old IBM Model M first thing you will notice when gaming is how you move more fluidly you don't have to apply much force to the keys once you push a quarter to half way down the switch actuates unlike a rubber dome. Cherry MX Black like the SteelSeries 7G and Deck Legend are more for Gaming than Typing. Cherry MX Brown like the Filco Majestouch N-Key Rollover is the perfect combination of Gaming and Typing.


----------



## tong (Jun 1, 2009)

but none of those seem available at a regular retailer (brick and mortar store ... physical building i can go into)  Would love to test those out to see the technology i just learned about.


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## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

this one is really popular this is the Deck 82 Fire Edition cost $99 USD also have Cold and Toxic Edition and of course the regular Deck Legend 105 which also comes in Red, Blue and Green.



























LED's are rated for 22 years, Cherry MX Black Switches rated for 50 million cycles vs Rubber Domes 1-10,000 million Cycles, Metal Plate, 10 year warranty, encourage modifications even list modifications on website, will repair anything as long as you don't damage PCB, have replaceable key caps, different colored housings, leds.

pretty sexy?


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## tong (Jun 2, 2009)

wicked specs, amazing support on that one, but not a full keyboard.  Gimme that one, in a full size, with blue instead of red. 

I recommend you make a post on just all the stuff you mentioned about keyboards here and see if it can be stickied.  Tons and i mean tons of usefull information you are posting and sharing.


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## Reventon (Jun 2, 2009)

I'm perfectly fine with using a normal, generic keyboard for both everyday use and gaming. I have a few different types of keyboards around the house and I can always tell the differences between them but I personally would like a gaming keyboard sometime just because of the extra programmable buttons and such. Plus useful volume controls and stuff are nice too because I always listen to music on my computer.

Edit: As for that Deck 82 Fire Edition keyboard up there, I don't think I'd ever buy it. That's REALLY ugly, not to mention the keys are way too small.


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## tong (Jun 2, 2009)

here's one i haven;t seen anyone ask.  If i plug in a keyboard thru the usb to ps2 adapter and that keyboard has a usb hub... is the hub still usable? meaning will it communicate? or: Will it still power the usb devices?


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## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

you are only missing the number pad I believe which I never really use. the keys look the same size as the Legend they were even smart enough to put the windows key at the top right so you don't accidently push it.

this is the Deck Legend 105 Ice.






it's the same materials except for the metal plate and housing, same support. $149 USD I think.


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## Reventon (Jun 2, 2009)

Looks like a regular keyboard, only with LEDs. Waste of money IMO.

Edit: Doesn't even have volume buttons. I can't stand using keyboards without volume buttons.


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## tong (Jun 2, 2009)

Wow that's perfect... everything I'm looking for...  but are the mechanical switches really worth all that extra money? or will the lifetime of those switches make up for it?


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## Reventon (Jun 2, 2009)

tong said:


> Wow that's perfect... everything I'm looking for...  but are the mechanical switches really worth all that extra money? or will the lifetime of those switches make up for it?



Phailtrain!


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## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

they are I have a Das Ultimate. I don't need any media controls. I use my Logitech Z-5500 when I play single player games and when I play online I use my Cyber Snipa Sonar 5.1 or Sennheiser HD515 which I can also hook up to the Z-5500 to turn the volume down.


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## trickson (Jun 2, 2009)

Reventon said:


> Looks like a regular keyboard, only with LEDs. Waste of money IMO.
> 
> Edit: Doesn't even have volume buttons. I can't stand using keyboards without volume buttons.



I hear you there . Way too plain and generic for me .


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## trickson (Jun 2, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> they are I have a Das Ultimate. I don't need any media controls. I use my Logitech Z-5500 when I play single player games and when I play online I use my Sennheiser HD515 which I can also hook up to the Z-5500 to turn the volume down.



OMG YOU Use a Logitech key board ????


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## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

all keyboards look the same how bad can a keyboard look?



trickson said:


> OMG YOU Use a Logitech key board ????



Logitech Z-5500.


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## tong (Jun 2, 2009)

trickson said:


> OMG YOU Use a Logitech key board ????



um no it's not a keyboard Logitech z-5500

that's a double  to you. LOL


----------



## trickson (Jun 2, 2009)

tong said:


> um no it's not a keyboard Logitech z-5500
> 
> that's a double  to you. LOL



OH SNAP !!! But it is logitech .


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## intel igent (Jun 2, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> this one is really popular this is the Deck 82 Fire Edition cost $99 USD also have Cold and Toxic Edition and of course the regular Deck Legend 105 which also comes in Red, Blue and Green.
> 
> http://i41.tinypic.com/16279xu.jpg
> http://i39.tinypic.com/6gzyw6.jpg
> ...



now that look's kick @ss! plus it look's like it could DBL as a weapon at the next LAN 

i don't go to LAN's though  but still a good feature IMO 



tong said:


> wicked specs, amazing support on that one, but not a full keyboard.  Gimme that one, in a full size, with blue instead of red.
> 
> I recommend you make a post on just all the stuff you mentioned about keyboards here and see if it can be stickied.  Tons and i mean tons of usefull information you are posting and sharing.



full keyboard? when's the last time you used the # pad?  anyways looking at that board the layout look's a lot like my lappy


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## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

I used to use my number pad back in the day religiously but this was before or just when headsets were becoming a requirement in a clan because I used them for team messages for certain maps.


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## tong (Jun 2, 2009)

I use the number pad constantly only because i got accustomed to it at work.  Can;t seem to use the numbers above the letter keys. 

to those that say it's plain looking:

you probably think this : 






is faster than:





Don't you?


----------



## intel igent (Jun 2, 2009)

tong said:


> I recommend you make a post on just all the stuff you mentioned about keyboards here and see if it can be stickied.  Tons and i mean tons of usefull information you are posting and sharing.



agreed


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## Reventon (Jun 2, 2009)

tong said:


> I use the number pad constantly only because i got accustomed to it at work.  Can;t seem to use the numbers above the letter keys.
> 
> to those that say it's plain looking:
> 
> ...



No, sorry. I don't.


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## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

they are just being a smart ass. at the very least you should of learned about marketing and the difference between a $10 keyboard and a $100 one so when people say "zomg  i'll stick to my $10 compaq k thnx" you can school them.


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## Reventon (Jun 2, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> they are just being a smart ass. at the very least you should of learned about marketing and the difference between a $10 keyboard and a $100 one so when people say "zomg  i'll stick to my $10 compaq k thnx" you can school them.



But I'd rather have the $10 Compaq keyboard if the $100 Deck 82 looks like balls .


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## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

plenty more to choose from. this is what I don't get people are willing to spend $80-150 for a G9, Ikari, Lachesis or Mamba yet suddenly complain about a keyboard that is equally important if not more.


----------



## intel igent (Jun 2, 2009)

Reventon said:


> No, sorry. I don't.



what do you mean man? look at the size of that muffler! it has to go like 400mph Fo' Shizzle! 

the marauder is DEAD sexy  i want one  



BumbleBee said:


> they are just being a smart ass. at the very least you should of learned about marketing and the difference between a $10 keyboard and a $100 one so when people say "zomg  i'll stick to my $10 compaq k thnx" you can school them.



thank's for the lesson!  gonna have to re-read the stuff a few time's for it to sink in but i actually learned something! 

what are your opinion's on the logitech mx518 "gaming" mouse and can you reccomend a good mouse pad @ a good price point?

TIA BB


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## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

he was trying to make a point all cars look the same in principle but some are faster than others. Logitech MX518 is good mouse I guess, I had the G5 and was satisfied but I like my Ikari better just so you know it's more catered to the low sensitivity gamers.


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## intel igent (Jun 2, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> he was trying to make a point all cars look the same in principle but some are faster than others. Logitech MX518 is good mouse just so you know it's more catered to the low sensitivity gamers.



i was just fackin' around about the car's  i'm an auto service tech. sometime's. that's what they say anyways  

can you eaborate on the "sensitivity" part? i just picked one up on the weekend cuz my 510 was giving me stress


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## Reventon (Jun 2, 2009)

intel igent said:


> what do you mean man? look at the size of that muffler! it has to go like 400mph Fo' Shizzle!
> 
> the marauder is DEAD sexy  i want one



Ah crap! I forgot that fart cans add 120hp to your car !


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## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

low sensitivity gamers usually use 800-1600 dpi optical sensors, big mouse pads, they usually claw grip it and can take inches just to turn 360' in a first person shooter. if you are a high sensitivity gamer then you will want anything between 1600-4000 dpi laser sensor, majority palm grip but some claw grip some mice like the G9 don't give you the option to palm (cramps)


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## tong (Jun 2, 2009)

intel igent said:


> i was just fackin' around about the car's  i'm an auto service tech. sometime's. that's what they say anyways
> 
> can you eaborate on the "sensitivity" part? i just picked one up on the weekend cuz my 510 was giving me stress



My experience on this:  i've had the mx510, the mx518 and currently the g5.  From the mx510 to the 518 i saw a huge difference in sensitivity, really improved my game... from that to the g5... not so much, kinda feel like it wasn;t worth the money i paid for it. 


On the maurader .... wish they made the other engine they wanted to put in it... supercharged...  sweet  actually looking at a 2k grand marqui right down the road.. the thing is mint, might have to do an engine swap.

just so you know ****Fart can adds 120 whp per 3 inches in diameter


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## intel igent (Jun 2, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> low sensitivity gamers usually use 800-1600 dpi optical sensors, big mouse pads, they usually claw grip it and can take inches just to turn 360' in a first person shooter. if you are a high sensitivity gamer then you will want anything between 1600-4000 dpi laser sensor, majority palm grip but some claw grip some mice like the G9 don't give you the option to palm (cramps)



the 518 is 1800Dpi @ max setting and i find it to be "twitchy" but i don't use a mouse pad, i just run it on my desk  i "palm" not "claw" i think? lol i just noticed it's optical and not laser  maybe i'll have another look and see what they got in store, might find smethin better? 



tong said:


> My experience on this:  i've had the mx510, the mx518 and currently the g5.  From the mx510 to the 518 i saw a huge difference in sensitivity, really improved my game... from that to the g5... not so much, kinda feel like it wasn;t worth the money i paid for it.
> 
> On the maurader .... wish they made the other engine they wanted to put in it... supercharged...  sweet  actually looking at a 2k grand marqui right down the road.. the thing is mint, might have to do an engine swap.
> 
> just so you know ****Fart can adds 120 whp per 3 inches in diameter



thnx for the input  and don't forget about the sticker's! each sticker is 10Hp  i seen the prototype they had and IIRC it was sporting the terminator engine from the cobra's


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## Kenshai (Jun 2, 2009)

Indeed it was with a terminator motor in concept. Would've been a modern day gnx. 


But back to the thread I ordered a Scorpius M10 should be here by the end of the week expect a mini review about it. I've messed with these so called gaming keyboards(saitek, g15, and a couple of the razer boards. I'll let you know how they feel compared to the mechanical keyed M10.


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## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

nice. look forward to it. you know what you should do test it at typing too try it with what your using now then the Scorpius M10.


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## tong (Jun 2, 2009)

Kenshai said:


> I ordered a Scorpius M10 should be here by the end of the week expect a mini review about it. I've messed with these so called gaming keyboards(saitek, g15, and a couple of the razer boards. I'll let you know how they feel compared to the mechanical keyed M10.



Wow now that's trust in explanations. That's a lot of money to spend on something on a whim. Especially reading the reviews on amazon on that thing, how a bunch of people are saying it was horribly assembled and soldered.


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## Kenshai (Jun 2, 2009)

Very good chance at the moment I will be faster with the wave because of the spacing and size of each key. After I grow accustomed to the M10 I assume I'll get better.


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## Melvis (Jun 2, 2009)

I think it comes down to personal choice with getting a gaming keyboard etc, or how much money you have to waste on one. (can be expensive) Id like to have one just so i can have one lol, but also so i can have like W,A,S,D light up and configure things for each different game etc, also maybe to see temps of the CPU etc, memory usage bla bla bla  it would come in handy and they look cool  but i have a LCD screen on the case and it tells me all the temps anyway.

I just use a very basic 101 keyboard from Miscroshaft and it does the job for me and i play ALOT of games from FPS's RTS, and racing games and i have no problems with them using this basic keyboard and its still PS2 connection to lol

All in all if you got the cash then yea get one, but you wont see any real improvement (depending on game and light in room) over a basic keyboard. Most of all make sure you are gooooooooood at the games you play so it sorta justifies owning a nice gaming keyboard. Im good at most of the games i play, haven't lost a game in Kane's Wrath for like 8month at the local LAN i play at, COD4 im always somewhere at the top and GRID to easy lol and all on my basic keyboard. But i would love to have a nice gaming Keyboard, just cant afford one right now =/


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## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

give the M10 a good 3 hours before you rate it you need to break the keys in and give your brain and hands a chance to adapt to using less force. $49 is hardly expensive it's on par with the Arctosa and Eclipse. cheaper than the G11, G15, G19, Lycosa and Tarantula. at Pro LAN and Tournaments they usually have rental systems which all come with usually a Logitech or Microsoft OEM Keyboard and Intellimouse so everybody is on the same level. I have 2 computers and 2 Keyboards I have a Das Ultimate Edition (yes it's key less) and a Microsoft Comfort Curve 2000 and I can't game with the Microsoft Comfort Curve 2000 it's like eating lobster and suddenly downgrading to eating cod guts with simulated lobster flavor lol

tong is right it is poorly constructed but you are paying for the Cherry MX Blue i'm sure the build cost went straight to the Cherry Switches as they are not cheap. this review sums it up.



> Just wanted to post a few quick observations about the Chinese made Ione Scorpius M10 keyboard that was delivered a few days ago. I've not yet opened it up for checking the internal circuitry to see if it is of poor construction as has sometimes been the case for this model. In a few of the points below, I've compared this board to the Das III and ABS M1 keyboards because I've been using them recently as well.
> 
> The Good
> 
> ...


----------



## RadeonX2 (Jun 2, 2009)

So I bought an A4Tech X7 series gaming mouse & keyboard a while ago for dirt cheap. Just got home actually remove the old genius keyboard & mouse plug-in the a4Techs.

any opinion guys? any good?

A4Tech X-710 gaming mouse

http://www.x7.cn/en/product.asp?id=22

A4Tech X7 G300 gaming keyboard

http://www.x7.cn/en/product.asp?id=42

here's their website

www.x7.cn

well at least it's better than my previous M&KB


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## RadeonX2 (Jun 2, 2009)

I'm kinda disappointed on the keyboard it feels the same as my old and cheap Genius. The key prints are too big and ugly looking. Well that's the performance I'd expect from a cheap wannabe gaming keyboard  but I really like the mouse tho.


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## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

well the keyboard speaks for it self but the OCZ Equalizer is a re-brand of the A4Tech X-750F and the Equalizer, X-750F and X-710 use the Agilent 6010 Laser Engine which is the same as Razer Copperhead but it is locked into 125Hz Polling Rate and cannot be overclocked (usually you can overclock any mouse to 1000hz) which makes the movement really jerky.


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## RadeonX2 (Jun 2, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> well the keyboard speaks for it self but the OCZ Equalizer is a re-brand of the A4Tech X-750F and both the X-750F and X-710 use the Agilent 6010 Laser Engine (same as Razer Copperhead) but it is locked into 125Hz Polling Rate and cannot be overclocked which makes it really jerky.



thanks for clarifying  My friends with Razers said that if you sucked at FPS using a cheap mouse then that's basically the same if you'd switch to Razer mouse you will mostly sucked too as it will most depend on how good a player is. Are Razers and Logitechs gaming M&KB can really make a big diff. interms of gaming especially FPS? I'd get the Razer KB just for their backlight and additional keys. Bit is it worth buying?


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## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

ok let me give you an example. download this video it's a demonstration in Counter-Strike: Source the first set of circular motions are with the Razer Copperhead which in principle is the same mouse but pulling 1000hz and is very smooth then the video pauses and another set of circular motions are done this time with the OCZ Equalizer but pulling only 125hz and you can notice the jerkiness.


----------



## RadeonX2 (Jun 2, 2009)

DL'ing right now. How about the diff. in keyboard? only the extra keys and backlight bling?


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## TechnicalFreak (Jun 2, 2009)

RadeonX2 said:


> thanks for clarifying  My friends with Razers said that if you sucked at FPS using a cheap mouse then that's basically the same if you'd switch to Razer mouse you will mostly sucked too as it will most depend on how good a player is. Are Razers and Logitechs gaming M&KB can really make a big diff. interms of gaming especially FPS? I'd get the Razer KB just for their backlight and additional keys. Bit is it worth buying?



Actually I find that true. I was testing a friends son's Steelseries Ikari (WoW edition) with CS:S, and found no big difference what so ever. However, he can only use one hand, he has cerebral parlis or whatever it's called. He had a Razer (my old) and found that this was better just because it had more buttons on the mouse.

And keyboards, well gaming keyboards not all, but some have this "anti ghosting" ability. Dunno how it works, but it's idéa is that you should be able to press certain keys without that _sticky_ feeling or the computer giving you a "BEEP" sound.


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## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

well not to sound like your mother but you shouldn't play video games in the dark it's bad for your eyes and if you haven't mastered where your keys are you got problems! like uv dyes some backlights or leds are brighter than others. G-Keys like on the Logitech G15 or Macros are not very useful in First Person Shooters however you may find them useful in games like World of Warcraft or other MMO however even if your keyboard doesn't have G-Keys you can still bind Macros to it by a tool called AutoHotKey and it is much more versatile and advanced than the G15 Drivers and you can use it on any keyboard. so when you eliminate all the features of a "gaming keyboard" you are really left with Switches and Build Quality. what I have been trying to tell people is the difference between a $10 Keyboard and a $80 Logitech or Razer Keyboard is very small it's all about marketing and markup you are not getting the value and performance you should be getting at that price point.


----------



## RadeonX2 (Jun 2, 2009)

Well I have good lighting in my room and I don't use or game in the dark. That pretty much sums up thank you very much BumbleBee and TechnicalFreak for enlightening me the diff bet. Normal M&KB and between those expensive M&KB. I totally forgot the G15 has that little LCD which it can display temps and FPS or other info. So the build quality difference between cheap and expensive M&KB are basically almost the same but the functionality, shortcut keys, LCD display, the backlight bling and other functions are almost found on the expensive M&KB.


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

exactly they all have plastic housings, plastic keys, rubber dome membranes and rubber feet. the difference between the $10 Keyboard and $80 Keyboard are like what you said the extra trimmings but almost all those trimmings can be done with a $10 Keyboard. the difference between a $10 Keyboard and a $100 Mechanical Keyboard is very big like thermoplastic key caps which is a higher quality and can with stand higher temperatures, laser etched or engraved keys so in 10-20 years the keys look just as good when you first bought it, bigger nipples (bumps on the F and J keys), gold plated connectors for optimal conductivity, cherry switches are much faster and durable than rubber domes, metal plates for durability, n-key rollover, some keyboards like the SteelSeries 7G and Gigabyte GK-K8000 come with 2 sets of keys black and grey with a key changer so you can switch them out or make a pattern or have replacements, Gigabyte GK-K8000 has it's own sound card a vista certified integrated c-media 6300 chip in it so all you have to do is plug your microphone or headphones in and thats it other keyboards that have microphone and headphone audio ports simply relay or act as a extension cord.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 2, 2009)

intel igent said:


> the 518 is 1800Dpi @ max setting and i find it to be "twitchy" but i don't use a mouse pad, i just run it on my desk  i "palm" not "claw" i think? lol i just noticed it's optical and not laser  maybe i'll have another look and see what they got in store, might find smethin better?
> 
> 
> 
> thnx for the input  and don't forget about the sticker's! each sticker is 10Hp  i seen the prototype they had and IIRC it was sporting the terminator engine from the cobra's



the G5 is the same as the MX518, except with a laser. if you get the 2007 revision (rev 2 in some places) it has two thumb buttons, making it just like the 518. the G5 '07 is my preferred mouse.


a few people asked how this stuff affects gaming: its simple, they dont. if you sucked beforehand, you will suck afterwards.

I've got cheap, 10 year old microsoft mouse that i game with just as great as my logitech G5 - the difference is the extra buttons (mic use/melee in most games), THEY help my gaming... and comfort. I can use my G5 for hours and hours without noticing, but if i use cheap, poorly designed mice my hand tends to cramp within 2 hours of use.


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

very first optical I used was a microsoft mouse, what a upgrade over a ball mouse. I believe it was one of the original intellipoint it was white had a red translucent surface underneath, very durable, cost $80 when it first came out this was in 97 or 98.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 2, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> very first optical I used was a microsoft mouse, what a upgrade over a ball mouse. I believe it was one of the original intellipoint it was white had a red translucent surface underneath, very durable, cost $80 when it first came out this was in 97 or 98.



those are the ones i have. i STILL have three in working, as new condition. the generations after that (the black ones and the smaller, glossy ones) sucked so bad in comparison.

These are from the era before thumb buttons, when having a wheel with scroll was awsome.


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

I probably had the same one you are using. it looked like this one.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 2, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> I probably had the same one you are using. it looked like this one.
> 
> http://i44.tinypic.com/2z3rifn.jpg



thats the exact one.


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

yeah but I don't remember the grey on the sides, instead of the grey I think it was the red translucent plastic.


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## Mussels (Jun 2, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> yeah but I don't remember the grey on the sides, instead of the grey I think it was the red translucent plastic.



the red clear section is just at the rear, and the grey has the red glowing through it from the optical light.


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## Mussels (Jun 2, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> I had a different model then. the red translucent plastic was at the rear and sides. this one looks a little more familiar.
> 
> http://i43.tinypic.com/2yn4enl.jpg



thats the same mouse - the grey plastic just glows red. There is two versions, a light grey and a dark grey. the light grey (in both those pics) the red glows through. The dark grey (the older model) didnt glow thorough, but was the same hardware wise.


----------



## intel igent (Jun 2, 2009)

Mussels said:


> the G5 is the same as the MX518, except with a laser. if you get the 2007 revision (rev 2 in some places) it has two thumb buttons, making it just like the 518. the G5 '07 is my preferred mouse.
> 
> 
> a few people asked how this stuff affects gaming: its simple, they dont. if you sucked beforehand, you will suck afterwards.
> ...



thnx

i don't suck but i do think better equipment can help while gaming


----------



## Mussels (Jun 2, 2009)

All of those i've ever owned was USB, but they came with a PS2 adaptor.

you also posted that same message twice.


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

maybe it did have grey on it and I am remembering wrong. anyways it was usb but had a ps/2 adapter and cost a lot but was worth every penny lasted 3 years before my cat got to it  it was one of the reasons I bought the SteelSeries Ikari Laser I love a good heavy and durable mouse.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 2, 2009)

Here ya go


It came out a little weird cause my camera hates working without the flash on, but having the flash on hid the light from the mouse.

Same mouse, one plugged in one not.


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

ok mine definitely didn't have any grey on it the bottom was completely red and translucent and the area around your sensor is a outer indentation mine was inner indentation and had a square slope.


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## Mussels (Jun 2, 2009)

also that goes to show how my the paint is wearing off my space bar on my keyboard.

even expensive keyboards that are laser etched wear out after years of abuse.


----------



## caleb (Jun 2, 2009)

PRO Gaming keyboard:
- can be able to hit 4 buttons at once without locking up
- soft/silent touch when you spam keys 




- half height of default keys (NOT like laptop but 50% of regular keyboard)
- a wire

(You would be surprised how many keyboards dont meet these 4 requrements)

Gaming keyboard:
- LCD screen
- remapable buttons
- named buttons
- soem gay mechanisms
- anything else that goes off the default key list
- sexy colours
- a box quote saying "now you will own everybody"
- price
- in some cases it might be missing a cord (OMG?!We all know how cordless ends in real fights!)
- drivers

Normal keyboard:
- standard height
- loud and hard touch
- most likely will block itself on 4 button spam
- has standard button mechanism. Loud and hard in touch. Wears out very quickly when used under extreme FPS games or even at work


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

I had a laser etched keyboard and the only thing that happened was the keys started to change colour thats all.


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## Mussels (Jun 2, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> I had a laser etched key board and the only thing that happened was the keys started to change colour thats all.



they claim its laser etched, but it still looks painted to me. my A S D and spacebar (where my thumb rests) have all started to fade. but hell, the keyboards 2+ years old.


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## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

this one is painted silver.


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## Mussels (Jun 2, 2009)

that looks like the eclipse I. i've got the II.


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## BumbleBee (Jun 2, 2009)

other people have complained about the fade on the Eclipse II also. if they truly are laser etched they are not supposed to fade at all yet alone after 2 years it looks like they are indeed painted.



> 4.0 out of 5 stars  Good Keyboard - Paint wears off the keys!, April 18, 2008
> By 	Bob L.
> What? Wears well in a little over a month of use? HAHAHAH!
> 
> ...



Source

this is what a Laser Etched Key Cap looks like, see the difference in quality versus paint? there is only a dozen or so on the market that are actually Laser Etched.


----------



## intel igent (Jun 2, 2009)

^^ that gigabyte board is so tempting!


----------



## kurosagi01 (Jun 2, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> this one is painted silver.
> 
> http://www.pcmech.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/image6.png



very nice indeed the saitek eclipse


----------



## Kenshai (Jun 2, 2009)

Mussels said:


> Here ya go
> 
> 
> It came out a little weird cause my camera hates working without the flash on, but having the flash on hid the light from the mouse.
> ...



I actually used those as well for the longest time, then I got excited when they came out with the five button version which I used up until I moved into wireless mice about 3 years ago. I went through 2 of the five button ones, the first one started double clicking, then triple clicking, eventually started clicking non stop. So I retired it. Great mice though.


Can anyone comment on the Gigabyte mouse? The reviews all seem pretty good but anyone here actually mess with one?


----------



## Mussels (Jun 2, 2009)

Kenshai said:


> I actually used those as well for the longest time, then I got excited when they came out with the five button version which I used up until I moved into wireless mice about 3 years ago. I went through 2 of the five button ones, the first one started double clicking, then triple clicking, eventually started clicking non stop. So I retired it. Great mice though.
> 
> 
> Can anyone comment on the Gigabyte mouse? The reviews all seem pretty good but anyone here actually mess with one?



my dad had the silver, 5 button version. same problem with excess cicking.
it also skipped a lot worse than the previous versions... which is when i stopped using microsoft, and went logitech.


----------



## Kenshai (Jun 2, 2009)

Mussels said:


> my dad had the silver, 5 button version. same problem with excess cicking.
> it also skipped a lot worse than the previous versions... which is when i stopped using microsoft, and went logitech.



By the time I purchased the second one they were only $25 

Crazy considering I think I paid 70+ for the first 5 button.


Edit: 


BumbleBee said:


> nice. look forward to it. you know what you should do test it at typing too try it with what your using now then the Scorpius M10.



With running through each of those tests, I averaged 78 WPM with a 96% accuracy, with my current keyboard will do it again when I get my new desk arrangement in and the keyboard in.


----------



## tong (Jun 2, 2009)

I've had my eclipse keyboard since my athlon 3000+ system, not one key is fading or has faded, in fact i even clean it once a month with baby wipes to get sweat off of it from my fingers (game a lot).  I do know that the Regular eclipse the first few shipments the keys wore off but i  was under the impression that it was fixed by the time the eclipse II came on the market.  ( i know i got mine before the eclipse II came out.)  The only thing that i think is fading are the Led's.


----------



## kurosagi01 (Jun 3, 2009)

think i'll buy the eclipse =) i prefer it than eclipse II it looks better in my opinion so is the build quality good for gaming?


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## Kenshai (Jun 3, 2009)

kurosagi01 said:


> think i'll buy the eclipse =) i prefer it than eclipse II it looks better in my opinion so is the build quality good for gaming?



I don't personally like my room mates but he has had no complaints. I don't like how it feels.


----------



## ShiBDiB (Jun 3, 2009)

i ordered a Saitek Eclipse off amazon and it should be coming today... itll finish my "gaming computer" as i have the G5 mouse but some ghetto keyboard.. it just didnt look good  now i just need some uber nerd mousepad


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## hat (Jun 3, 2009)

pretty LEDs?


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## kurosagi01 (Jun 3, 2009)

didn't know they had a slimline version of eclipse lol 
http://www.amazon.co_uk/dp/B001I45IDQ/?tag=tec053-21


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## Mussels (Jun 3, 2009)

kurosagi01 said:


> didn't know they had a slimline version of eclipse lol
> http://www.amazon.co_uk/dp/B001I45IDQ/?tag=tec053-21



that has a very similar design to my dinovo, in general.


----------



## Wile E (Jun 3, 2009)

To hell with worrying about all these different switch types. I am perfectly happy with both my Eclipse I and my Lycosa. All the matters is the tactile feel, and your preference, and they both suit me just fine.


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 3, 2009)

ShiBDiB said:


> i ordered a Saitek Eclipse off amazon and it should be coming today... itll finish my "gaming computer" as i have the G5 mouse but some ghetto keyboard.. it just didnt look good  now i just need some uber nerd mousepad



SteelSeries Mouse Pads are probably the most popular with the Logitech G5 I had a SteelSeries S&S was a great mouse pad but I use my custom func pad it's yellow, double sided (one side rough, one side smooth), cord clip, has a aluminum border and says "BumbleBee" with a Bee Logo in the middle in black by the time you customize it comes out to a little more than the Razer Destructor however you can buy the non-custom ones for even a lower price than the SteelSeries and Razer Mouse Pads. I also use a paintball arm sleeve which I cut the top off a lot of professional gamers use these you can even buy one just for your wrist it's so there is less friction between the arm of the chair and forearm.



Wile E said:


> To hell with worrying about all these different switch types. I am perfectly happy with both my Eclipse I and my Lycosa. All the matters is the tactile feel, and your preference, and they both suit me just fine.



Rubber Domes have no tactile feel and if what your feeling "feels" tactile just wait until you try a Cherry Switch.


----------



## Wile E (Jun 3, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> SteelSeries Mouse Pads are probably the most popular with the Logitech G5 I had a SteelSeries S&S was a great mouse pad but I use my custom func pad it's yellow, double sided (one side rough, one side smooth), cord clip, has a aluminum border and says "BumbleBee" with a Bee Logo in the middle in black by the time you customize it comes out to a little more than the Razer Destructor however you can buy the non-custom ones for even a lower price than the SteelSeries and Razer Mouse Pads. I also use a paintball arm sleeve which I cut the upper arm off a lot of professional gamers use these you can even buy one just for your wrist it's so there is less friction between the arm of the chair and forearm.
> 
> 
> 
> Rubber Domes have no tactile feel and if what your feeling "feels" tactile just wait until you try a Cherry Switch.


No, but the domes aren't the only thing that control tactile feedback. I say if you like the way it feels, and it responds the way you expect, the switch types don't make a damn bit of difference


----------



## hat (Jun 3, 2009)

Feel? Since when does it matter how a keyboard feels? I dunno, maybe I'm just an insensitive jackass, but I play the same here at home with my generic $15 dell keyboad as I do when I go over to my uncle's and play on his spare machine that has one of those gaming keyboards.


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 3, 2009)

Wile E said:


> No, but the domes aren't the only thing that control tactile feedback. I say if you like the way it feels, and it responds the way you expect, the switch types don't make a damn bit of difference



i'll credit Razer for the non-slip rubber coating. but I don't credit them on their shady circuitry. the switches make all the difference, rubber domes should be used for quiet office environments they should have nothing to do with gaming at all.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 3, 2009)

well i know i type faster on my dinovo than on my eclipse, since the keys spring up faster. But that doesnt make me type any more accurately, spell better, or game better.


----------



## Wile E (Jun 3, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> i'll credit Razer for the non-slip rubber coating. the switches make all the difference, rubber domes should be used for quiet office environments they should have nothing to do with gaming at all.



It works for me. It works for countless others as well. I prefer the rubberized tops. I see no benefit to moving to anything else, when this suits me perfectly. And a different type of switch is not going to make me a better gamer, either.

My whole point is, no one design is better than another for gaming. It all lies in personal preference. This Lycosa matches me perfectly, just as Logitech boards match others perfectly, or still others that prefer a high-end board. It's all purely personal preference.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 3, 2009)

i agree with wile E. my favourite is the scissor swtiches in my dinovo, i've had a few old mechanical keyboards and i cant stand them. they were all far too noisy for me, and took more effort to push a keypress.

everyone has a favourite, just like some people prefer CRTs, some TN film LCD's and others wont go anything less than an IPS LCD.

You're trying to win a fanboi argument of "this is the best, everyone agree with me" and its just not going to happen. You lost by even thinking you could win.


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 3, 2009)

your dinovo uses scissor switches, I never liked them I could never learn to type on a laptop. the key cap is connected to the 2 pieces of plastic which forms a scissor you might not know it but the response times are faster but it's not due to the switch because it still uses a rubber dome it's due to the scissor making less travel time and your scissor switches have more durability than plain rubber domes I think they are rated for 10,000,000 cycles. 

mechanical switches make me type faster, make less mistakes, use less muscle and move around more fluidly in games. does that mean it will for everybody? probably not but majority.

i'm not sure which mechanicals switches you used but cherry mx switches all you have to do is lightly push down a quarter to half way for the switch to actuate, you use less muscle but you are right the trade off is noise some switches are quiet and some are loud however after a period of time it shouldn't "phase you" but that doesn't mean it won't phase your significant other.

PS, I use CRT. Dell Ultrascan P992 19"


----------



## Wile E (Jun 3, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> your dinovo uses scissor switches, I never liked them I could never learn to type on a laptop. they still use a rubber dome but the key cap is connected to the 2 pieces of plastic which forms a scissor you might not know it but the response times are faster and your scissor switches have more durability than plain rubber domes. mechanical switches make me type faster, make less mistakes, use less muscle and move around more fluidly in games.
> 
> PS, I use CRT. Dell Ultrascan P992 19"



Many people, myself included, don't benefit from mechanical switches. I'm willing to bet that the "faster response time" of many of these keyboards doesn't actually make a damn bit of gameplay difference for 99.9% of everyone out there. A little adjustment time, and you can game equally well on just about anything.

As far as durability, I have yet to have problems with my Eclipse that's 2 years old. For $30, I couldn't give a shit less if it up and died on me at this point., as it already paid for itself.

Now, I haven't had the Lycosa long enough to comment, but I honestly don't expect any issues. And I got it for $45 new, so if it lasts at least 3 years, I'm happy.


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 3, 2009)

it does make a difference in gameplay... I can volt mod my blowdryer and kill you 10 times before you hit the ground. don't run from my Das you will just die tired


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## Wile E (Jun 3, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> it does make a difference in gameplay...



I don't believe it, except maybe in the most extreme cases of build quality difference. I bet that anyone can game equally well, on different board types of good build quality, given enough time to adjust. Any differences come not from the board, but from comfort. I'd bet money on it.

And lol at the edit.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 3, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> it does make a difference in gameplay... I can volt mod my blowdryer and kill you 10 times before you hit the ground. don't run from my Das you will just die tired



oh come on, how are us mods not supposed to ban you for ban evasion, if you quote your old account? thats twice you've slipped up now...


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 3, 2009)

?


----------



## Mussels (Jun 3, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> ?



mods know everything. you've had four accounts, although one never posted, and one only has a minor number of posts.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Jun 3, 2009)

Cavalry1980 i believe.


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 3, 2009)

tigger said:


> Cavalry1980 i believe.



no it was a misunderstanding.


----------



## Kantastic (Jun 3, 2009)

I just sold my Arctosa and think I'm going to give the Sidewinder X6 a go!


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 3, 2009)

may I ask why you sold it? Sidewinder X6 does look like a nice alternative to the G11


----------



## Gam'ster (Jun 3, 2009)

As long as it has system volume, mute and a calc button im happy.
But most gaming boards have a quality feel, macro's.... and so they should for the price but £50+ for something i know ill spill something on and gets more than its fair share of abuse i dont know if i could justify it.


----------



## kurosagi01 (Jun 3, 2009)

i was thinking that too,why sell arctosa and buy sidewinder?? looks like it was factured for a car.
off topic:
wow 11 pages on my thread haha this should be name the keyboard discussion thread instead now


----------



## Kantastic (Jun 3, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> may I ask why you sold it? Sidewinder X6 does look like a nice alternative to the G11



I had no use for the macro capabilities, and I was being cheap when I bought it, hence why it was the Arctosa and not the Lycosa. Damn thing was a dust monster too. I'm gonna go for a board with backlighting and dedicated macro keys. I actually had my eye on the X6 for a while now, since it also features a slim key cap structure. I hope it's not mushy.

Oh and I sold my Pro Pad too, was getting tired of that hard pad. Going to try the Qck pads and see if it's easier on my wrists. I did get used to the Pro Pad after a couple days though, and it was one hell of a good pad. I can really feel the difference compared to my naked desk, and my desk is VERY smooth plastic.


----------



## trickson (Jun 3, 2009)

MAN 11 PAGES OF this crap ? 
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2234179,00.asp

Just read this and be done with it .


----------



## 1Kurgan1 (Jun 3, 2009)

trickson said:


> MAN 11 PAGES OF this crap ?
> http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2234179,00.asp
> 
> Just read this and be done with it .



6 pages?  Either way a nice keyboard is nice, but I have playedo n friends G15's, G11's, and Razers, I have a $20 Microsoft keyboard and I actually like it a bit more, the buttons feel much nicer. I'm not sure on the button types, scissors or what not, but don't matter because I feel it's very comfortable.


----------



## mrw1986 (Jun 3, 2009)

Mussels said:


> oh come on, how are us mods not supposed to ban you for ban evasion, if you quote your old account? thats twice you've slipped up now...



Win. I notice a difference with my Razer Lycosa vs my old Microsoft Natural 4000. By a difference I mean my keyboard lights up now so its easier to see at night...that's about it.


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 3, 2009)

Kantastic said:


> I had no use for the macro capabilities, and I was being cheap when I bought it, hence why it was the Arctosa and not the Lycosa. Damn thing was a dust monster too. I'm gonna go for a board with backlighting and dedicated macro keys. I actually had my eye on the X6 for a while now, since it also features a slim key cap structure. I hope it's not mushy.
> 
> Oh and I sold my Pro Pad too, was getting tired of that hard pad. Going to try the Qck pads and see if it's easier on my wrists. I did get used to the Pro Pad after a couple days though, and it was one hell of a good pad. I can really feel the difference compared to my naked desk, and my desk is VERY smooth plastic.



i'm pretty sure the Sidewinder uses regular key caps they are just mounted into the keyboard a little further my Microsoft Comfort Curve 2000 is designed the same way.


----------



## Kantastic (Jun 3, 2009)

How far do you have to press down on the X6? I hope it's not like the IBM keyboard I'm using right now, I can't stand typing on this moving from the Arctosa. 

Edit: I read the review @ ExtremeTech and they said that the X6 had springy keys for it's flat structure, hope that's the case 'cause I love springy low profile keys.



mrw1986 said:


> Win. I notice a difference with my Razer Lycosa vs my old Microsoft Natural 4000. By a difference I mean my keyboard lights up now so its easier to see at night...that's about it.



I believe the X6 has better lighting than the Lycosa, a lot of reviews claim the LEDs on the Lycosa can get pretty dim at night, and are hard to see from an angle.


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 3, 2009)

same as a standard key. which IBM keyboard?


----------



## Kantastic (Jun 3, 2009)

Not exactly an IBM kb, something very close to it. I got this over 7 years ago, so it's an oooold model that wakes people up when you type.

"Nice, With a Few Quirks
The SideWinder X6 is a very good gaming keyboard overall, and the ability to move the number pad to the left and set it up as a bunch of macro keys is perfect for macro-holics. The big knobs for backlighting control and volume are great. The keys have a nice "springy" feel with good bounce back, and nice big Shift, Backspace, and Enter buttons make basic typing easy." ~ExtremeTech

And tell me this isn't hot!


----------



## Kenshai (Jun 3, 2009)

I actually was debating between the sidewinder, or a scissor switch keyboard before I really thought about it.  It seemed like a pretty good keyboard, but I want something that will last me a good time (ie more than 2-3 years.) So I decided to look elsewhere did the research and was intrigued with the mechanical switches, so I ordered one. I'm not looking for it to improve my gameplay, I'm really looking at it more to get better feedback from the keyboard, a better feeling to the keys. After reading everything I have. I do believe that the mechanical keyboard will be the better way to go.


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 3, 2009)

the keys on the Sidewinder X6 are standard just lowered the F Keys are slim.


----------



## Kantastic (Jun 3, 2009)

Either way I'm going to give it a try, along with the new Razer Sphex. If Razer's being truthful, it's a thin surface that's washable, which I'm guessing means long lasting. It doesn't seem like it'll separate from wear because it's not exactly layered. Looks like the Destructor surface too! I can pick it up for $60 at J&R, if I don't like it I'll return it. ^_^


----------



## kurosagi01 (Jun 3, 2009)

what you guys think of OCZ alchemy elixir 2 keyboard?


----------



## Kantastic (Jun 3, 2009)

^I wouldn't buy it. I hear it has some serious ghosting issues unless you use software to remap the keys in some funky way.


----------



## kurosagi01 (Jun 3, 2009)

Kantastic said:


> ^I wouldn't buy it. I hear it has some serious ghosting issues unless you use software to remap the keys in some funky way.



hm okay what about the saitek k140 backlit slimeline keyboard? is it small aswell i can't tell by the pictures but im assuming its small if all the keys are squashed in than original keys?
http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/k140.htm


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 4, 2009)

kurosagi01 said:


> what you guys think of OCZ alchemy elixir 2 keyboard?
> http://microlime.com/images/T/OALKBELX2US_1.jpg



Polaris owns one, here is his take.



kurosagi01 said:


> hm okay what about the saitek k140 backlit slimeline keyboard? is it small aswell i can't tell by the pictures but im assuming its small if all the keys are squashed in than original keys?
> http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/k140.htm



i'm unfamiliar with that model but an alternative to that and the Logitech DiNovo is the Logitech Illuminated Keyboard it shares the same principles like the slim laser etched key caps, scissor switches and lighting it comes with a price tag of £50 but it has Free Shipping and I heard nothing but good reviews about it if any Americans are interested in this keyboard head to newegg they have a nice rebate on it right now. if you just want a very inexpensive semi-slim keyboard take a look at the Logitech Ultra Flat Keyboard this one usually sells for £12-20 so Amazon must have some sale.


----------



## kurosagi01 (Jun 4, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> Polaris owns one, here is his take.
> 
> 
> 
> i'm unfamiliar with that model but an alternative to that and the Logitech DiNovo is the Logitech Illuminated Keyboard it shares the same principles like the slim laser etched key caps, scissor switches and lighting it comes with a price tag of £50 but it has Free Shipping and I heard nothing but good reviews about it if any Americans are interested in this keyboard head to newegg they have a nice rebate on it right now. if you just want a very inexpensive semi-slim keyboard take a look at the Logitech Ultra Flat Keyboard this one usually sells for £12-20 so Amazon must have some sale.



yeah i was going buy the ultra flat keyboard but i got put off by my friend getting it ¬.¬ hate having same stuff as my friend i'm considering the eclipse though


----------



## Kantastic (Jun 4, 2009)

I'll tell you how the Sidewinder feels sometime this week. I'll drop by J&R after school and pick it up.


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 4, 2009)

ok there is also the Enermax Aurora Keyboard I posted on Page 3







_this is a picture of the Euro model the American model doesn't have Alt Gr or the L shaped Enter key._

it's brushed aluminum housing with slim key caps and scissor switches comes in Black or Silver not sure if the key caps are laser etched or painted also has terrific reviews and it's a little cheaper than the Logitech Illuminated Keyboard it's £47.28 Inc VAT.

Video Review here.

I think you should save up because you are running out of slim options


----------



## kurosagi01 (Jun 4, 2009)

quite pricey but it is nice though the enermax aurora keyboard


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 4, 2009)

if you want quality you have to be willing to pay.


----------



## kurosagi01 (Jun 4, 2009)

thats true,but i don't really would like to pay that much for keyboard though
edit: i was looking at this Enermax KB001U Crystal
http://www.eclipsecomputers.com/product.aspx?code=KEE-CRYSTAL


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 4, 2009)

the Crystal model is also in that video review I posted above, pretty nice bargain for scissor switches at that price point.

if you can't live without LED's remember that LED's come in different grades, bulbs, voltages and counts. for example the Logitech Illuminated Keyboard is said to be brighter than the Saitek Eclipse series this could be because of the key caps, higher voltage or bulb. another example is the Deck 82 I posted earlier it is one of the best backlit keyboards it is bright (live on a desk in the dark) because the LED are industrial grade (consumer cannot purchase) they are rated for 22 years there is also 1 LED per Key not every Keyboard is designed like that.


----------



## Kantastic (Jun 4, 2009)

^LEDs on that Enermax Crystal means the Num/Scroll/Caps lock indicators, not the keys itself.


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 4, 2009)

yes I know but I wasn't sure if he wanted to buy a slim keyboard with LED's or not. I was trying to make sure he understood about LED's.


----------



## kurosagi01 (Jun 4, 2009)

yeah i understand,would you reconmend the saitek eclipse or the enermax crystal? i don't really mind having no LEDs on keys
Edit: Is eclipsecomputers even a trust worthy website? i've read some bad reviews about them


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 4, 2009)

Enermax Crystal. i'm not sure about that retailer I don't live in the UK it's the only retailer selling it in the UK.


----------



## erocker (Jun 4, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> Enermax Crystal. i'm not sure about that retailer I don't live in the UK.



You happen to have any links where I could pick up a Crystal for a decent price?


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 4, 2009)

I think the product is discontinued. you can still buy the Enermax Aurora and Caeser they are $60-70  USD at Amazon.


----------



## Reventon (Jun 4, 2009)

What's a good keyboard that's also cheap?


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 4, 2009)

the Solidtek 6600 is a good choice at that price point if you want to spend more you have to decide if you want functionality or tactile response and speed.


----------



## kurosagi01 (Jun 4, 2009)

logitech ultra flat keyboard? or maybe a saitek eclipse? no wonder i don't see many websites with the crystal its discontinued


----------



## Reventon (Jun 4, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> the Solidtek 6600 is a good choice at that price point if you want to spend more you have to decide if you want functionality or tactile response and speed.



Where you talking to me or someone else?


----------



## BumbleBee (Jun 4, 2009)

who else would I be talking to?


----------



## Reventon (Jun 4, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> who else would I be talking to?



Well the way you said it I got confused.

As for the keyboard, that's basically what I have except with mechanical keys. I need something that has some extra programmable buttons, as I tend to run out when setting up my keyboard for games. Also needs to look like something more than a regular keyboard.


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## BumbleBee (Jun 4, 2009)

any keyboard worthy of gaming has been posted so start by selecting what kind of switch you want and browse through the pages. not many keyboards have dedicated macros Logitech G11, G15, G19, Saitek Cyborg, Gigabyte GK-K8000, Microsoft Sidewinder X6 and Razer Tarantula off the top of my head if you don't already know AutoHotKey has it's own extensive scripting language that can program any macro on any key on any keyboard also keep in mind keyboards with dedicated macros only have a small number of keys so AutoHotKey might be what you are looking for.


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## Reventon (Jun 4, 2009)

I could care less about the switch, it doesn't even need to be responsive.


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## BumbleBee (Jun 4, 2009)

sorry can't help you. tapped out.


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## Reventon (Jun 4, 2009)

kurosagi01 said:


> what you guys think of OCZ alchemy elixir 2 keyboard?
> http://microlime.com/images/T/OALKBELX2US_1.jpg



Needs more than just looks. What's the features?


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## BumbleBee (Jun 4, 2009)

with all due respect who cares what the keyboard looks like is it going to make you win a match?


----------



## Reventon (Jun 4, 2009)

But why get an expensive keyboard if it looks like crap?


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## BumbleBee (Jun 4, 2009)

because you want fast response times, comfort and something that won't fall apart faster than a chinese motorcycle thats all a gamer can ask for.


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## Reventon (Jun 4, 2009)

I don't need fast response times. I hardly ever play FPS's anymore, mainly just racing games. And yes comfort is important.


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## BumbleBee (Jun 4, 2009)

fast response times are universal whether you are playing need for speed or typing an essay. just because a woman is pretty doesn't mean she is good in bed. I use a Dell Ultrascan P992" 19" CRT that isn't attractive like my Samsung Syncmaster 226BW 22" LCD but I use it because LCD's are just not up to gaming standards at least not yet.


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## MilkyWay (Jun 4, 2009)

to me you have to try a keyboard to really see if you like it, check the layout and features
price is a factor too
some simple board can be better than a so called gaming board but generally gaming ones have macro keys and stuff so its better for gaming

its all personal preference as is most things today


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## tong (Jun 4, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> fast response times are universal whether you are playing need for speed or typing an essay. just because a woman is pretty doesn't mean she is good in bed. I use a Dell Ultrascan P992" 19" CRT that isn't attractive like my Samsung Syncmaster 226BW 22" LCD but I use it because LCD's are just not up to gaming standards at least not yet.



Agreed. and the keyboard and monitor thing is true too.....


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## Reventon (Jun 4, 2009)

Yeah I just understand why.


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## Reventon (Jun 4, 2009)

Screw it. I need to focus on a new monitor anyway, or a new mouse.


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## BumbleBee (Jun 4, 2009)

since you want to write a lot of macros you should look at the Logitech G11 it has 18 dedicated macro keys or "G-Keys".


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## Reventon (Jun 4, 2009)

I want to write a lot of macros? I didn't say that?


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## BumbleBee (Jun 4, 2009)

Reventon said:


> Well the way you said it I got confused.
> 
> As for the keyboard, that's basically what I have except with mechanical keys. *I need something that has some extra programmable buttons, as I tend to run out when setting up my keyboard for games*. Also needs to look like something more than a regular keyboard.



pretty clear to me?


----------



## Reventon (Jun 4, 2009)

What I am saying is like an extra keypad.


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## BumbleBee (Jun 4, 2009)

a standard keyboard has 104 keys and you need more? the Ideazon Merc Stealth  has 137 keys. what are you binding that needs so many keys?


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## Reventon (Jun 4, 2009)

Well some of the keys I need fore other things, but some of my games allow easily 150 bindings or so, which are all very important. Not to mention it's hard to remember which key does what - if I bind a key like 'G' for a certain action in-game, I'll most likely forget where or what it is because it's in the middle of the keyboard. Not to mention I need some of the keys for other programs running at the same time as my games.


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## BumbleBee (Jun 4, 2009)

AutoHotKey can assign 2 different macros to 1 key by create profiles by active window so if you create a macro for the C Key for Call of Duty 2 to do whatever and create a macro for the C Key for Winamp to do whatever once you exit Call of Duty 2 the C Key macro will be disabled and once you open Winamp the C Key macro will be enabled and vice versa. I have never really needed more than 4 or 5 binds for games the last time I complained I ran out of keys was when headsets didn't exist and we used to use  team chat scripts.


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## Kenshai (Jun 4, 2009)

what racing game do you have that you'll use more thab maybe 15 to 20 keys in?


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## intel igent (Jun 4, 2009)

@ Reventon: DAMN! 150 key's?! you must have fast finger's? the ladies must love you!


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## BumbleBee (Jun 4, 2009)

well Simulators like Flight Simulator, Lock-On and Il-2 Sturmovik have every key on the keyboard already binded because the controls are advanced and quite extensive. can't imagine a racing game requiring more.


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## intel igent (Jun 4, 2009)

if i had a game that required me to use that many key's you would see it for sale in the F/S section! 

i want to play the game not which key is what?


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## kurosagi01 (Jun 4, 2009)

150 keys?? damn thats a lot of keys haha man there ain't many keyboard that i like that are from scan or ebuyer and the ones i do like are ones i don't really want spend lot of money on


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## BumbleBee (Jun 5, 2009)

£17.00 ($24 USD) for a compact keyboard with slim key caps and scissor switches encased in a diamond cut aluminum housing that has 2x USB 2.0 ports 1x Microphone, 1x Headphone ports and zero degree tilt? even comes with a micro fiber cloth to clean it. if you want to paint it the housing pops right off all you need to do is unscrew 8 screws go get some newspaper, sand paper, can of primer and a can of paint. you could paint it a nice black, camo or a mirror finish. even if only one store in the UK sells it and it's discontinued you should get it. *great deal!* definitely recommend this to anybody in the UK searching for a new keyboard.


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## iandh (Jun 5, 2009)

Kantastic said:


> I had no use for the macro capabilities, and I was being cheap when I bought it, hence why it was the Arctosa and not the Lycosa. Damn thing was a dust monster too. I'm gonna go for a board with backlighting and dedicated macro keys. I actually had my eye on the X6 for a while now, since it also features a slim key cap structure. *I hope it's not mushy.*
> 
> Oh and I sold my Pro Pad too, was getting tired of that hard pad. Going to try the Qck pads and see if it's easier on my wrists. I did get used to the Pro Pad after a couple days though, and it was one hell of a good pad. I can really feel the difference compared to my naked desk, and my desk is VERY smooth plastic.



Most definitely not. The keys don't take a lot of force to press, but even after 6 months of heavy FPS use (at least a few hours a night), they still feel nice and springy. Basically when you rest your fingers on them they don't just feel like they are going to collapse, but when you go to press them they give way easily but maintain a light even tension against your press.


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## department76 (Jun 5, 2009)

gaming hardwware is a gimmick to get more money out of consumers, that is all.  durability is something to consider, but i will think twice about a $15 keyboard that day that a $15 keyboard actually breaks on me.


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## Kantastic (Jun 5, 2009)

iandh said:


> Most definitely not. The keys don't take a lot of force to press, but even after 6 months of heavy FPS use (at least a few hours a night), they still feel nice and springy. Basically when you rest your fingers on them they don't just feel like they are going to collapse, but when you go to press them they give way easily but maintain a light even tension against your press.



Good! I play an FPS game that requires me spamming 5 keys per second easy, if they don't come right back up I'll never be able to perform those moves. Thanks for your comment, it really helps me out.


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## iandh (Jun 5, 2009)

department76 said:


> gaming hardwware is a gimmick to get more money out of consumers, that is all.  durability is something to consider, but i will think twice about a $15 keyboard that day that a $15 keyboard actually breaks on me.



The extra features found on gaming hardware are a gimmick if you don't use them, and a godsend if you do.



Kantastic said:


> Good! I play an FPS game that requires me spamming 5 keys per second easy, if they don't come right back up I'll never be able to perform those moves. Thanks for your comment, it really helps me out.



No prob.

I have never been the type to claim that the latest greatest hardware made me a better gamer, but when I upgraded to this MS sidewinder set I saw my killcounts climb right before my eyes. I never realized how much my old keyboard and mouse were holding me back...


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## Kantastic (Jun 5, 2009)

When you say set, I'm assuming you mean the mouse as well. What kind of grip are you? Palm? Claw? Fingertip? I'm a claw gripper and the Diamondback 3G wasn't really my mouse, so I'm gonna try the DeathAdder/Sidewinder.


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## kurosagi01 (Jun 5, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> http://i43.tinypic.com/144bedk.jpg
> 
> £17.00 ($24 USD) for a compact keyboard with slim key caps and scissor switches encased in a diamond cut aluminum housing that has 2x USB 2.0 ports 1x Microphone, 1x Headphone ports and zero degree tilt? even comes with a micro fiber cloth to clean it. if you want to paint it the housing pops right off all you need to do is unscrew 8 screws go get some newspaper, sand paper, can of primer and a can of paint. you could paint it a nice black, camo or a mirror finish. even if only one store in the UK sells it and it's discontinued you should get it. *great deal!* definitely recommend this to anybody in the UK searching for a new keyboard.



yeah i do want the keyboard but i heard the site got bad services which putted me off


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## BumbleBee (Jun 5, 2009)

kurosagi01 said:


> yeah i do want the keyboard but i heard the site got bad services which putted me off



you should call or email them and ask them if they still have it in stock.


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## kurosagi01 (Jun 5, 2009)

i have emailed them before like couple months ago and they never respond to me at all not once
by the way that was the first  OCZ alchemy elixir i was talking about the 2nd one or they are the same??


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## Reventon (Jun 6, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> AutoHotKey can assign 2 different macros to 1 key by create profiles by active window so if you create a macro for the C Key for Call of Duty 2 to do whatever and create a macro for the C Key for Winamp to do whatever once you exit Call of Duty 2 the C Key macro will be disabled and once you open Winamp the C Key macro will be enabled and vice versa. I have never really needed more than 4 or 5 binds for games the last time I complained I ran out of keys was when headsets didn't exist and we used to use  team chat scripts.



Well like I said I run several programs at once, and so I need keys for each action. Between maybe 3-4 programs I usually run, I use about 175 keys or so. It wouldn't do well to be able to use them at different times - need to be able to use them at the same time.



intel igent said:


> @ Reventon: DAMN! 150 key's?! you must have fast finger's? the ladies must love you!



You bet Just look at my ex !



BumbleBee said:


> well Simulators like Flight Simulator, Lock-On and Il-2 Sturmovik have every key on the keyboard already binded because the controls are advanced and quite extensive. can't imagine a racing game requiring more.



Oh you'd be surprised. There are SO many actions that are equally useful, like camera adjustment, brake bias, gear keys if needed, headlights and such, and the list goes on. I have used up most of the keys on my keyboard already and still have yet to bind many of the keys for cameras and such. I'll take a screenshot of the list sometime to show you.

Like I already also said, I have a standard keyboard with 104 keys. That's about 50 short. I think a keyboard with extra keys plus an extra keypad would be nice.


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## intel igent (Jun 6, 2009)

Reventon said:


> You bet Just look at my ex !



not a good example considering she's your Ex 

unless she is stll your "friend"


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## Reventon (Jun 6, 2009)

intel igent said:


> not a good example considering she's your Ex
> 
> unless she is stll your "friend"



Well I do have a girlfriend who is just as gorgeous right now


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## TechnicalFreak (Jun 6, 2009)

Today I have (use) the Razer Lycosa. Excellent keyboard. But it will never beat my "Happy Hacker II" keyboard.. That one was unbreakable, did not have any lights or "anti-ghosting" feature. And it still did cost more than the Lycosa...


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## BumbleBee (Jun 6, 2009)

Technical you had a Happy Hacker? thats one series I deliberately left out of this thread because some of them are very expensive ($250-300) and pretty unrealistic anybody would buy them including me it's expensive because it uses capacitive switches. another one that uses capacitive switches is the Realforce made by the same company the Realforce also features a variable weight system for the keys so the keys you would type with a pinky finger would be lighter. sounds so soothing though makes me want to buy it


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## Kenshai (Jun 9, 2009)

Just got my Scorpius M10, have to say I'm impressed with how it feels. Much better than I anticipated, I don't have time currently to do a full review but it definitely feels better than any keyboard I've used in the past few years.


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## BumbleBee (Jun 9, 2009)

right on, Cherry MX Blue are great I have the same ones in my Das.


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## Kenshai (Jun 10, 2009)

I went into this thinking it wasn't going to be a big difference, to be honest I was shocked. 

List the keyboard I've had a chance to use (for extended periods of time) in the past few years in no specific order. 
Logitech G15
Saitek Eclipse I and II
Logitech UltraX(Scissor Switch keys)
Logitech Wave
Z-board
Generic Dell and HP
Many different laptops

I've also had a chance to use a Lycosa and the Tarantula from Razer. But no extended 
time with them. 

From the reviews I read about quality control being an issue, I can say I don't have any keys that are hard to press any keys that are working intermittently or any other issues people have talked about in the reviews online. 

Comparing it to my most recent keyboard, the Logitech Wave, well...There really isn't any comparison, the M10 feels completely different but in a good way. It really does feel different than any keyboard I've used.

The feedback provided from the Cherry MX Blue switches offers both an audio feedback as well as the tactile feedback. I first purchased it I was worried that it would be harder to press than any previous keyboard. Completely wrong, if anything these feel like the correct pressure to press keys with. 

When first typing on the keyboard, the difference is quite substantial. I found myself enjoying how the keys felt and the sound they were making, confidence in each keystroke. 

To the claims that this will make you type faster and more accurate, I could actually see that. But with my short time with this keyboard so far, I'm not sure if there's been a difference or not. Through the typing test, I did average a few WPM more upwards of 85-88 through all the test compared to before 78-82. That may be due to how tired or awake I was at that moment. More testing will need to be done after I've grown better accustomed to the M10.

I let both my room mates use the keyboard, they both agreed that it feels great, but I didn't give them a long time with it. 

I really don't see any reason to say this isn't the best keyboard I've used to date. Keyboards are really a personal opinion, and this is mine. I hope to be using this keyboard for a long time, if the keys feel the same in a year, then the price was definitely warranted and I will be extremely happy with my purchase. 

Box: http://img.techpowerup.org/090610/IMG00057.jpg
Keyboard: http://img.techpowerup.org/090610/IMG00059.jpg
Size Comparison: http://img.techpowerup.org/090610/IMG00060.jpg

Sorry for the blurry pictures, I don't have a camera so phone pictures will have to do.


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## BumbleBee (Jun 10, 2009)

your iOne Scorpius M10 looks different than the product picture and the ones I have seen. 













I wonder if it's possible iOne has a entirely new batch. I know the Matias Tactile Pro 2.0, SteelSeries 6G and ABS M1 had new batches I think all three of them had problems with modifier keys whenever you hit Alt + CTRL + Shift it would register as Alt, CTRL, Shift. those Amazon reviews of the iOne Scorpius M10 are 2 years old. sounds like $49 well spent to me.


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## Kenshai (Jun 10, 2009)

Just re-reading over the reviews on amazon, I don't seem to have any issues.  Even the case doesn't appear to be as cheap as one of the reviewers mentioned, mine barely flexes when twisting. Granted I've yet to take the back off to inspect the solder, but unless I have an issue with it I don't believe I will.

I'm happy with it, and also happy with the fact that I was ready to put out the extra $80 or so for the Das and didn't have to.


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## BumbleBee (Jun 10, 2009)

another feature the iOne Scorpius M10 has that I didn't know and Kenshai can't show because of his cell phone camera is a unique texture.






the person who took this photo called it a "silt texture" when I google silt this is what I get.






SteelSeries 7G also has this texture.


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## BumbleBee (Jun 11, 2009)

can add one more Mechanical Keyboard to the list the Raptor K1 but don't get excited it looks like the most expensive one yet £129 ($176 USD) comes with a silt texture, euro layout (not sure if US is available), 8 additional fluorescent keys, key lock clips, key changer and 2x USB 1.1 ports.






it uses cherry mx brown with gold contacts similar to the SteelSeries 7G (below) except they use cherry mx black with gold contacts. I believe standard contacts are silver, they choose gold for maximum conductivity similar to gold plated USB ports.


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## Wile E (Jun 12, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> can add one more Mechanical Keyboard to the list the Raptor K1 but don't get excited it looks like the most expensive one yet £129 ($176 USD) comes with a silt texture, euro layout (not sure if US is available), 8 additional fluorescent keys, key lock clips, key changer and 2x USB 1.1 ports.
> 
> http://i44.tinypic.com/16k7vrr.jpg
> 
> ...


Which makes no difference whatsoever in performance. Gold is just more resistant to oxidation. SO over time, yeah, it may make better contact, but when new, it doesn't make a difference, even with USB ports, or any other electrical contact you can find in your home, including your A/V equipment. Gold plating is pretty much a marketing ploy.


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## Mussels (Jun 12, 2009)

i have an optical SPDIF cable with gold plating on the connector. thats how awesome marketing is.

Gold even makes the speed of light faster, if you listen to those guys.


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## Kenshai (Jun 12, 2009)

Mussels said:


> i have an optical SPDIF cable with gold plating on the connector. thats how awesome marketing is.
> 
> Gold even makes the speed of light faster, if you listen to those guys.



Why would you get such a thing, this is all I use, and for $2.25 a cable I can't complain.


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## Mussels (Jun 12, 2009)

Kenshai said:


> Why would you get such a thing, this is all I use, and for $2.25 a cable I can't complain.



it cost me $5, its "designed" for a playstation 2.


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## Kenshai (Jun 12, 2009)

Mussels said:


> it cost me $5, its "designed" for a playstation 2.



Oh wow, marketing at it's best I suppose. $5 though is a steal compared to what some companies charge.


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## gabrieljosh (Jul 14, 2009)

I like a Mini Keyboard. It's not the easiest one around to use, but it's certainly the easiest one to carry.


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## Kenshai (Jul 14, 2009)

gabrieljosh said:


> I like a Mini Keyboard. It's not the easiest one around to use, but it's certainly the easiest one to carry.



That's a bit tiny for my, I have big hands. I suppose I could get used to it, would probably feel similar to the diNovo mini, At least key size wise.


----------



## Binge (Jul 14, 2009)

Bumblebee you should join the TPU Peripherals Club 

I have one to add to the list.  The I-Rocks KR-6230.  It's got cherry browns and USB with good rollover zones for gaming.  The only thing that peeves me about this keyboard is the placement of the ? key.


----------



## AsRock (Jul 14, 2009)

The Mechanical Switch is the best to go for.  And one of the worsted i find which is most common is the dome switch as after time the keys start to catch.

Dam price is a ripp for Mechanical Switch ones.

EDIT:
Cracks me up people still think gold plating does shi noticeable to the human.  Maybe a difference if ya was a computer..


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## fenurch (Apr 1, 2010)

I do realise that I'm ressurecting an ancient thread but now there is a new option - The Steelseries 6Gv2 which has Mechanical Switches and is relatively cheap (compared to 7G) at 79.99 Euro.







Let's discuss


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## Delta6326 (Apr 1, 2010)

hate it looks to plan need more bling bling. and yes this is one old thread


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## Deleted member 24505 (Apr 1, 2010)

80 euros for that mmmmm how much per mechanical switch does that work out at.


----------



## EastCoasthandle (Apr 1, 2010)

Even OEM keyboards have a little more to them then this at that price.  To me it's just to plain looking and IMO to small.


----------



## fenurch (Apr 1, 2010)

Nah, this is my 'dream' keyboard as it's so standard (i love the old IBM, standard keyboards) and its just the right size. If only they had added backlighting this would be perfection.


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## HookeyStreet (Apr 1, 2010)

Price


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## n-ster (Apr 1, 2010)

You know what Keyboard is incredible? IBM Model M... And that keyboard will last you MANY years, that is for sure... It is priced at 69.00$ + 9.42$ shipping in US (or free in Canada?), but man, these are the best mechanical keyboards ever:

http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/customizer.html

or in white:
http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/cus101usenon.html


----------



## fenurch (Apr 2, 2010)

n-ster said:


> You know what Keyboard is incredible? IBM Model M... And that keyboard will last you MANY years, that is for sure... It is priced at 69.00$ + 9.42$ shipping in US (or free in Canada?), but man, these are the best mechanical keyboards ever:
> 
> http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/customizer.html
> 
> ...



lol dude. You can buy an old IBM computer for that price with the keyboard included D


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## Wile E (Apr 2, 2010)

ATZ said:


> I do realise that I'm ressurecting an ancient thread but now there is a new option - The Steelseries 6Gv2 which has Mechanical Switches and is relatively cheap (compared to 7G) at 79.99 Euro.
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/img/08-05-05/1561-1866.jpg
> 
> Let's discuss



I'd much rather have that than ANY Logitech hunk of junk with gimmicky keys and LCDs.


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## DrPepper (Apr 2, 2010)

Wile E said:


> I'd much rather have that than ANY Logitech hunk of junk with gimmicky keys and LCDs.



Only gimmicky if you don't use them. I do so they're not gimmicky. LCD screen ? well it's nice if to watch video's on for me because I only look at them periodically.


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## Wile E (Apr 2, 2010)

DrPepper said:


> Only gimmicky if you don't use them. I do so they're not gimmicky. LCD screen ? well it's nice if to watch video's on for me because I only look at them periodically.



I hate large keyboards, and think they are quite ugly and annoying to use. Not to mention the fact that Logitech boards are kinda cheaply built, especially compared to Steelseries boards. 

But, none of that matters, all that matters is what works the best for you, so if you like your Logi board, more power to you. I hated every one I ever owned.


----------



## DrPepper (Apr 2, 2010)

Wile E said:


> I hate large keyboards, and think they are quite ugly and annoying to use. Not to mention the fact that Logitech boards are kinda cheaply built, especially compared to Steelseries boards.
> 
> But, none of that matters, all that matters is what works the best for you, so if you like your Logi board, more power to you. I hated every one I ever owned.



Actually I just got rid of it. Infact two of them for a microsoft X6. I like it but I need a new desk which makes typing on any keyboard bad.


----------



## fenurch (Apr 2, 2010)

DrPepper said:


> Actually I just got rid of it. Infact two of them for a microsoft X6. I like it but I need a new desk which makes typing on any keyboard bad.



That makes me wonder - what is your desk? (Maybe a ghetto solution?)

Meh, Logitech are fairly decent, course not comparable to Steelseries quality but they're not too bad although for the price you pay for certain keyboards (e.g. G19), you really aren't getting your money's worth.

Again, it's my personal opinion but I believe that many people would concur. 

And well, tbh I'm not surprised as Logitech has been around for ages and they can 'afford' to build shit keyboards and sell them for millions even if keyboard half the price can do a better job but no-one would buy it cuz it's a dodgy brand.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Apr 2, 2010)

Basically yer pays yer money yer makes yer choice,whatever floats ya boat etc etc.

I have a G15 and find it a pretty good board,the screen is useful for teamspeak,core temp,etc.

The only mechanical keyboards i can remember trying are the crappy old white ones from the 80's AT pc days.


----------



## n-ster (Apr 2, 2010)

ATZ said:


> lol dude. You can buy an old IBM computer for that price with the keyboard included D



You don't understand... these mechanical KB's are pure awesomeness... I tried to type with some, and OMG its great lol... and everyone I know that tried this KB love it


----------



## shevanel (Apr 2, 2010)

Ive always used cheap keyboards.. for many years. I bought the logitech g15 simply for the backlit keys and after using the keyboard I realized I was so deprived all those years.

I never thought a friggin keyboard would be my favorite piece of PC hardware but it is.


----------



## erixx (Apr 2, 2010)

I got the G15 at the beginning and have been using it (them, as you will see) since then, mainly heavy writing all day long plus gaming. Yes, true 

The 1st was returned under warantee because of the painting and I received TWO new G15 from Switzerland 

The new ones show no paint problem.

After 3 years I had to replace the G15 because of dirt  and now I am using my last one 

What will I buy next time... Don't know.

For sure I have learned this from the G15:

+ Can't live without the LCD anymore
+ Love the backlight at night but (See below)
+ Love the volume and mute keys, the rest is not relevant to me
+ Macrokeys look useful, just need a neat way to paste text or icons on them 
+ the 2 horizontal holes or grabs are great to hold notes, pens, sticks, stuff...
+ the 'feel' while writing is good IMHO, although it doesn't feel as good as old MS or Cherries.

- Too big (I would have killed the numeric)
- Yet backlighted, in sunny daylight the symbols on the keys are hard to see: it's like dark blue letters on black keys (I can write blindly, but not use all the keys blindly)
- USB vr. 1 ports : sucks obviously and sometimes not providing enough power to run some things.

Summing it up: next time I will be looking for a keyb with 
1) display and backlight (gamer part)
2) equal or better feel, better contrast of the text on the keys

Of course if I would stuff the whole gamer-gadget aspect I would go for a small mechanical of course! (BUT, they last soooo long that the keyboard lasts longer than your capability to CLEAN it properly 

my 2 cents


----------



## n-ster (Apr 2, 2010)

Don't eat over your kb and you won't have to clean it so often xD


----------



## Kantastic (Apr 2, 2010)

erixx said:


> + Can't live without the LCD anymore



You're left with 2 options, another G15 or the newer G19.


----------



## Fourstaff (Apr 2, 2010)

There is little choice if you want the LCD. However, if you can live without the LCD, then there will be much more choices.


----------



## asmanthebell (Apr 2, 2010)

Buy the ROCCAT VALO true gaming keyboard!


----------



## pantherx12 (Apr 2, 2010)

Surely if a USB keyboard can display a little LCD can't you just buy a sepperate USB LCD for temperatures and such like?


Also how many other people just adapt to the keyboard they're using?


----------



## erixx (Apr 2, 2010)

I like the LCD because of its hardware logging of course, but also the Newsfeeds during game loading, songnames, unread email, office calendar, and whatever... yet ingame I never look at the custom display of deaths/bullets because it is already shown in game... Maybe strategiy games can show stock markets or supply % but I am not into that games.

I think one of the newest Asus i5 or i7 mobos has a external USB display not only for BIOS logging but for general purpose from inside Windows... 

W7 features the Sideshow that potentially could be exploited by anyone to make add on LCDs...

True but sad, for now it's Logitech or Logitech... No way am I gonna spend 190 € for a G19, 90 was ok for the G15, but.... 

I hope this one lasts a bit =8


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## Kenshai (Apr 2, 2010)

ATZ said:


> I do realise that I'm ressurecting an ancient thread but now there is a new option - The Steelseries 6Gv2 which has Mechanical Switches and is relatively cheap (compared to 7G) at 79.99 Euro.
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/img/08-05-05/1561-1866.jpg
> 
> Let's discuss



Maybe I'm missing something but what switches does this keyboard use. The 50 million life points to cherry blacks like the 7g. If that's so then I'll most likely pick this up when it releases.


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## fenurch (Apr 2, 2010)

Kenshai said:


> Maybe I'm missing something but what switches does this keyboard use. The 50 million life points to cherry blacks like the 7g. If that's so then I'll most likely pick this up when it releases.



It doesn't actually state what mechanical switches they are on the website but if I remember correctly (and I'm probably not) then they are Cherry MX (or something like that) because I remember watchin an interview but don't hold me to that cause I'm not 100% sure.


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