# ASMedia-sourced AMD B550, A520 Chipset Motherboards Arrive in 2020



## btarunr (Jun 14, 2019)

If a recent MSRP price-list leak is anything to go by, motherboards based on the AMD X570 chipset will cost a pretty penny, beating even Intel's premium Z390 Express chipset on average motherboard pricing. Those looking for an affordable motherboard for the Ryzen 3000 series processors have the option of choosing existing AMD 400-series chipset based motherboards, and taking advantage of the USB BIOS Flashback feature that's almost universally available on the AMD platform. You lose out on PCI-Express gen 4.0 with the older platforms, which may not be a big compromise when it comes to graphics cards, but would limit your M.2 NVMe SSD performance upgrade path. One possible option would be to wait for affordable variants of AMD's 500-series chipsets, which are sourced from ASMedia.

According to DigiTimes, ASMedia will tape out its next-generation AMD-platform chipset silicon, and is on track to shipping its new chipsets to motherboard manufacturers by Q4-2019. This would pin availability of the first motherboards based on these chipsets to at least Q1 2020. These chipsets not only feature PCI-Express gen 4.0 downstream lanes, but also boards based on these will be built to AMD's PCB requirements for the new platform, enabling a PCI-Express 4.0 x16 slot for discrete graphics, and revised CPU VRM and memory wiring specifications that improve overclocking over the previous generation platform. For now there are two SKUs in the works, the B550, which succeeds the B450, and the A520, succeeding the A320. 



 

Image Credit: Hardware.info

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## fynxer (Jun 14, 2019)

Really weird that it will take that long for low and mid range motherboards to enter market.

This will seriously hamper Ryzen 3 and 5 cpu sales rest of the year for people looking for Ryzen 3000 PCIe 4.0 system on a budget.

They should have had these chipsets available this summer already to maximize the sales of Ryzen 3000 while they have a clear advantage in the market.

While doing every thing else just right this is a BIG MISS BY AMD.

Sure you can choose to go for a cheap 400 series PCIe 3.0 motherboard with Ryzen 3000 BUT most people will feel that they want PCIe 4.0 when they anyways buy a cpu that supports it.

The salvation here is if motherboard manufacturers redesign and market new motherboards that have proper support for PCIe 4.0 with 400 series chipset.

EDIT:
Can see down below people are trashing PCIe 4.0 and says it make no difference now and we could as well stick to PCIe 3.0.

With PCIe 4.0 it is enuf to allocate 8x PCIe 4.0 to the graphics card and then you can play around with the rest 12x PCIe 4.0 that is direct linked to the cpu doing SSD Raid 0 or what ever. With Intel and PCIe 3.0 this is impossible, you are basically bandwidth starved using Intel cpu and PCIe 3.0.

Well if i buy a computer now i won't upgrade again for like 5 years or more, so maybe PCIe 4.0 don't matter on day one but it could definitely matter in a couple of years or so and then i don't want to be sitting there with PCIe 3.0 when i could have had PCIe 4.0.

Really hope at lest a few price worthy X570 motherboards will turn up that doesn't kill your budget totally.


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## TheLostSwede (Jun 14, 2019)

fynxer said:


> Really weird that it will take that long for low and mid range motherbords to enter market.
> 
> This will seriously hamper Ryzen 3 and 5 sales for people on a budget rest of the year.



How so? X470 and B450 works just fine.


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## madness777 (Jun 14, 2019)

People acting like 2nd gen and B450 chipset don't exist anymore


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## Zubasa (Jun 14, 2019)

madness777 said:


> People acting like 2nd gen and B450 chipset don't exist anymore


Also people act like budget users need PCI-E 4.0, which is useful only on new NVME SSDs.
Nvme SSD is not the most budget friendly option in the first place.


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## cucker tarlson (Jun 14, 2019)

Definitely going 450/470 if 3600/3700 can rival 8700k


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## Chrispy_ (Jun 14, 2019)

The only real thing that next-gen chipsets add is PCIe 4.0, which isn't really necessary for most people, so a B450 will serve 98% of the market or something like that.

Are board vendors updating existing inventory BIOSes to be 3000-series ready? If not, what's the skinny on this USB flashback thing mentioned - does it allow one to buy a B450 board and 3000-series chip that don't work without an update, and then perform the update anyway without needing a temporary 1000 or 2000 CPU to do so?



cucker tarlson said:


> Definitely going 450/470 if 3600/3700 can rival 8700k



The 8700k has already lost much of its advantage over the 2000-series Ryzens. It's slower than a 2700X now: 
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/291649-intel-performance-amd-spectre-meltdown-mds-patches

Spectre/Meltdown/MDS/Zombieload/RIDL/Fallout - that's six significant flaws in Intel's architecture which have caused a 25% performance drop in Skylake/Kaby Lake/Coffee Lake products, even if you leave hyperthreading on - which is not recommended. If you turn off hyperthreading, that's an even bigger performance drop and disables a feature that people paid a $100+ premium for. Meanwhile, in the last 18 months of Spectre/Meltdown/MDS/Zombieload/RIDL/Fallout patches, AMD have lost just 3% of their original performance and SMT is safe to leave enabled.


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## Jism (Jun 14, 2019)

fynxer said:


> Really weird that it will take that long for low and mid range motherboards to enter market.
> 
> This will seriously hamper Ryzen 3 and 5 cpu sales rest of the year for people looking for Ryzen 3000 PCIe 4.0 system on a budget.
> 
> ...



Dude, there is currently not one graphics card that is able to utilitize the full bandwidth offered by PCI-E 4.0. Let alone PCI-E 3.0 being utilitized to it's best. Sure, NVME SSD's _could use_ that extra bandwidth but many 470 boards offer a Raid-0 technology to basicly archieve the same. And if that is'nt enough i'm sure that the fastest available NVME SSD is still enough for most day usage. There's no difference in a Nvme vs S-ata SSD in that matter if you talk about normal use. The AM4 socket is just a great upgrade path from first generation all the way up to the latest generation. Exactly as AMD promissed that you wont have to upgrade the board to make use of it's features.


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## EntropyZ (Jun 14, 2019)

Looks like my X470 ITX board is staying. Unless ASUS screws X470 users over in some way in the BIOS, which I believe they might to sell those expensive X570 boards.

I think delaying new budget motherboards for that long is a mistake. However, if B450 and X470 aren't going to have many differences, they might as well sell all of those out first.

I'm mostly interested in overclocking and stability features over I/O.


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## Rahnak (Jun 14, 2019)

It would be super nice if AMD released a comparison table between all the 3000 series chipsets. Especially for people torn between previous gen boards or waiting for B550.


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## B-Real (Jun 14, 2019)

fynxer said:


> Really weird that it will take that long for low and mid range motherboards to enter market.
> 
> This will seriously hamper Ryzen 3 and 5 cpu sales rest of the year for people looking for Ryzen 3000 PCIe 4.0 system on a budget.
> 
> ...



Please do not say fake news. X470, B450 and even X370 and B350 mobos will work fine. You will see ZERO performance loss with SSDs in everyday use, meaning Win and game load times (as there is 0 performance difference between a 450-500 MB/s SATA3 SSD and a 2500-3000 MB/s NvME SSD: video).



Jism said:


> Dude, there is currently not one graphics card that is able to utilitize the full bandwidth offered by PCI-E 4.0. Let alone PCI-E 3.0 being utilitized to it's best. Sure, NVME SSD's _could use_ that extra bandwidth but many 470 boards offer a Raid-0 technology to basicly archieve the same. And if that is'nt enough i'm sure that the fastest available NVME SSD is still enough for most day usage. There's no difference in a Nvme vs S-ata SSD in that matter if you talk about normal use. The AM4 socket is just a great upgrade path from first generation all the way up to the latest generation. Exactly as AMD promissed that you wont have to upgrade the board to make use of it's features.



That is only true for workloads.


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## Chrispy_ (Jun 14, 2019)

Rahnak said:


> It would be super nice if AMD released a comparison table between all the 3000 series chipsets. Especially for people torn between previous gen boards or waiting for B550.


There's this one for now:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_chipsets#AM4_Chipsets


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## zlobby (Jun 14, 2019)

Uhm, didn't AMD ditch Asmedia's chipsets for backdoors in the previous chipsets?

Now all of a sudden Asmedia is all good?


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## olymind1 (Jun 14, 2019)

I'm wondering if lets say i buy now an MSI B450 Tomahawk and a Patriot Viper 4 2x8GB 3733 CL17 kit, then can i fully drive / utilize them with a Ryzen 5 3600, that the Tomahawk has the necessary wiring more that kind of mem oc?

I'm not gonna ask about OCing the 3600 because if that board can handle an OCed 8 core 2700 then it can too easly a 6 core cpu made at 7nm.


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## HisDivineOrder (Jun 14, 2019)

Hopefully, AMD will sort out the active-cooling for motherboards nonsense in some way.  I thought we'd moved past that.  Fans fail.


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## Mysteoa (Jun 14, 2019)

zlobby said:


> Uhm, didn't AMD ditch Asmedia's chipsets for backdoors in the previous chipsets?
> 
> Now all of a sudden Asmedia is all good?



I don't think they ditch them. It's more likely to do with implementing PCIEX4 and why x570 uses AMD IO chip.


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## lsevald (Jun 14, 2019)

What we need is a good quality board with 14+2 phase VRM's, PCB tuned for high RAM speeds and a BIOS to support all the new Ryzen 3000 stuff (higher ram speeds and such), but with b450 chipset and non of the costly PCIe 4.0 stuff. Sort of a hybrid, strictly to the point, no fluff, decently priced board ($150-200), if any motherboard makers are reading this


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## shmuck (Jun 14, 2019)

lsevald said:


> What we need is a good quality board with 14+2 phase VRM's, PCB tuned for high RAM speeds and a BIOS to support all the new Ryzen 3000 stuff (higher ram speeds and such), but with b450 chipset and non of the costly PCIe 4.0 stuff. Sort of a hybrid, strictly to the point, no fluff, decently priced board ($150-200), if any motherboard makers are reading this











 discusses those points.


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## prtskg (Jun 14, 2019)

fynxer said:


> Really weird that it will take that long for low and mid range motherboards to enter market.
> 
> This will seriously hamper Ryzen 3 and 5 cpu sales rest of the year for people looking for Ryzen 3000 PCIe 4.0 system on a budget.
> 
> ...


It was because Asmedia couldn't/didn't implement PCIe 4.0 on time that AMD designed x570. AMD doesn't have enough people to design all the chipsets anymore. So we will have B550 and A520 according to Asmedia's convinience.


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## Metroid (Jun 14, 2019)

madness777 said:


> People acting like 2nd gen and B450 chipset don't exist anymore



I guess they are used to intel cpus hehe. Every new chipset in every new cpu launch hehe


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## _UV_ (Jun 14, 2019)

madness777 said:


> People acting like 2nd gen and B450 chipset don't exist anymore


If you need proper AVX, yes, Ryzen 1st and 2nd gen doesn't exist.
And B450 if you consider 16c CPU (maybe as a later upgrade) didn't look like as viable solution due to possible weak VRM.


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## RichF (Jun 14, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> How so? X470 and B450 works just fine.





madness777 said:


> People acting like 2nd gen and B450 chipset don't exist anymore



Does anyone have solid evidence that B550 won't have better memory performance with 3000 series Zen? Remember that B die is not only overpriced it is EOL.

Also, for those who mentioned the first generation boards... a news report I read said only some of the B350 boards will get BIOS updates, most likely the "most popular" of them. So, if your board didn't sell well enough, you may be out of luck.


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## TheDeeGee (Jun 14, 2019)

No upgrade for me this year then.


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## Metroid (Jun 14, 2019)

RichF said:


> Does anyone have solid evidence that B550 won't have better memory performance with 3000 series Zen? Remember that B die is not only overpriced it is EOL.
> 
> Also, for those who mentioned the first generation boards... a news report I read said only some of the B350 boards will get BIOS updates, most likely the "most popular" of them. So, if your board didn't sell well enough, you may be out of luck.



That "x470 and b450 is here" mentality could backfire if reviews show x570 give you an extra 5% in performance due to the memory improvements in the x570 chipset. I'm not buying any b450 until I see many reviews and draw my own conclusions.


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## mstenholm (Jun 14, 2019)

lsevald said:


> What we need is a good quality board with 14+2 phase VRM's,


As far as I know that leaves out all of the x470 boards and 99% of the x570 boards


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## plonk420 (Jun 15, 2019)

> taking advantage of the USB BIOS Flashback feature that's almost universally available on the AMD platform



uhhh, per this thread, there are 5 Asus boards with USB Flashback (updating without a CPU) and 11 MSI boards (mainly 400 series). the others supposedly don't


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## TheLostSwede (Jun 15, 2019)

RichF said:


> Does anyone have solid evidence that B550 won't have better memory performance with 3000 series Zen? Remember that B die is not only overpriced it is EOL.
> 
> Also, for those who mentioned the first generation boards... a news report I read said only some of the B350 boards will get BIOS updates, most likely the "most popular" of them. So, if your board didn't sell well enough, you may be out of luck.



What does the chipset have to do with performance? It's simply a PCIe and peripheral connectivity bridge chip.

The motherboard design might be improved slightly to allow for better memory performance past a certain point, but that's the only thing I can think of, beyond PCIe 4.0 support.

As for older boards, that's down to the board makers. Technically my X370 board will support the new CPUs, but that doesn't seem to apply to all boards. Part of the reason not all boards will support the 3000-series is due to the SPI flash chips used not being big enough, which limits how much data can be stored. For some reason, it seems AMD's CPU profiles are quite big and as such, support for non Ryzen based APUs have been dropped on boards that added Ryzen 3000-series support.


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## GreiverBlade (Jun 15, 2019)

need to stop mentioning the X570 will be pricy... when all price prevision are on par with the X470 lineup ....

at last for me, cheapest X470 : 169$  cheapest mentioned X570 160'ish $ (159.99$ to be exa.... whatever... ), highest X470 308$, highest mentioned X570 (horror HEDT pricing! ) 299$
well i am sure my retailer/etailer will adjust the X570 pricing nonetheless




















but a X570 + a R9 3950X will still be cheaper than a 9980XE alone ...


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## mstenholm (Jun 15, 2019)

GreiverBlade said:


> need to stop mentioning the X570 will be pricy... when all price prevision are on par with the X470 lineup ....
> 
> at last for me, cheapest X470 : 169$  cheapest mentioned X570 160'ish $ (159.99$ to be exa.... whatever... ), highest X470 308$, highest mentioned X570 (horror HEDT pricing! ) 299$
> well i am sure my retailer/etailer will adjust the X570 pricing nonetheless
> ...


I think that ROG Crosshair VIII Formula ($699.99 ) and MEG X570 Godlike at 777  Euro (original link/post overruled by MSI) is why some got a bit, what do you say, surprised?


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## evernessince (Jun 15, 2019)

fynxer said:


> Really weird that it will take that long for low and mid range motherboards to enter market.
> 
> This will seriously hamper Ryzen 3 and 5 cpu sales rest of the year for people looking for Ryzen 3000 PCIe 4.0 system on a budget.
> 
> ...



Given that PCIe is a bleeding edge feature that mostly interests professionals only, I doubt it will come anywhere near seriously hampering sales.  It will be priced according to the market it is targeting. If your end goal is to have PCIe 4.0 when you need it you'd be much better off getting a quality B450 board now and then another board when you acutally need PCIe 4.0.  That would likely run you the same amount as a cheap X570 board and you'd have a constantly up to date PC.  Unless you explicitly need 4.0 right now, that makes the most sense.

 The 2080 Ti is nowhere near saturating PCIe 3.0, we are at least 6 years out from needing PCIe 4.0.  Right now it is strictly for professionals.

X370, B450, and X470 motherboards will all support Ryzen 3000 series CPUs.


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## HTC (Jun 15, 2019)

evernessince said:


> X370, B450, and X470 motherboards *will all support* Ryzen 3000 series CPUs.



You mean to say "*should* all support" but this isn't 100% confirmed just yet.

Furthermore: this is in regard for up to 8c / 16t Zen 2 CPUs only, because i seriously doubt *higher core count* Zen 2 CPUs will be supported on most B450 boards, as well as some X370 / X470 boards.

We shall see ...


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## Kissamies (Jun 15, 2019)

I'd see no benefits for a long ago for PCIE 4.0, maybe for SSDs but with GPUs, we're still fine with PCIE 3.0.


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## zlobby (Jun 15, 2019)

Chloe Price said:


> I'd see no benefits for a long ago for PCIE 4.0, maybe for SSDs but with GPUs, we're still fine with PCIE 3.0.


Even more so with PCIe 5.0 knocking on the door.

Although PCIe 4.0 is neat to have, I hope new TR/EYPC to launch with 5.0 support. Maybe intel can force this move?


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## GreiverBlade (Jun 15, 2019)

mstenholm said:


> I think that ROG Crosshair VIII Formula ($699.99 ) and MEG X570 Godlike at 777  Euro (original link/post overruled by MSI) is why some got a bit, what do you say, surprised?


oh .... you mean the high high high *cough*pointless for many*cough* one ... well indeed that's higher priced ... but they have no X470 counterpart and the price is still lined up with the current X470 ex: 160-299-700 is kinda expected ... (not even surprising me ... Intel counterpart were close or above that )  but even with that one ... a MEG X570  Godlike + a R9-3950X will be cheaper than a 9980XE alone ... so why the complain about the rise 

although ... i think it's right to raise the price when you do good (even tho my wallet does not like it ... ) and Intel did raise price while doing "ok, thanks to AMD sleeping" (sleeping? .... well they did sleep less than Intel or as Intel thought they did ...)



Chloe Price said:


> I'd see no benefits for a long ago for PCIE 4.0, maybe for SSDs but with GPUs, we're still fine with PCIE 3.0.


true ... and while the not 100% assured compatibility i might take a *Oh god, horror HEDT pricing* x470 of the top line at 308chf ... and a R7 3700 (and still have enough to buy food and drink even tho it's overrated )


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## madness777 (Jun 15, 2019)

Gigabyte B450M DS3H already has a Gen4 option in the BIOS. It's a 70€ motherboard.


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## iO (Jun 15, 2019)

Asmedia's PCIe4 capable ones are yet to be named as A520 and B550 are alleged respins of the existing 300/400 series chip and thus only PCIe3 but with fixes for Chimera.

There is also word of a X590 chipset with all 24 lanes enabled for the 3950X launch in fall...


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## TheLostSwede (Jun 15, 2019)

evernessince said:


> we are at least 6 years out from needing PCIe 4.0.  Right now it is strictly for professionals.



Based on what exactly? Making a statement like that without backing it up is just silly.



zlobby said:


> Even more so with PCIe 5.0 knocking on the door.
> 
> Although PCIe 4.0 is neat to have, I hope new TR/EYPC to launch with 5.0 support. Maybe intel can force this move?



PCIe 5.0 won't arrive in Intel products until 2021 and if people consider 4.0 being too much for consumers, why would anyone need 5.0?
I doubt we'll see 5.0 in any consumer products until 2022/2023. As for TR/EPYC, no, it's not going to happen until 2021 at the earliest, as AMD has no reason to accelerate their implementation just to beat Intel to a pointless goalpost.



madness777 said:


> Gigabyte B450M DS3H already has a Gen4 option in the BIOS. It's a 70€ motherboard.
> 
> View attachment 124992


Did you miss the news about AMD disabling this feature, due to not all board qualifying to meet the PCIe 4.0 standard?
As such, there's no official support from AMD's side for this, but we might still see the feature hanging around.

Some interesting details with regards to the X570 thermals here https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3482-amd-x570-vs-x470-x370-chipset-comparison


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## Assimilator (Jun 15, 2019)

Why are people crying about this? The only ones who need PCIe 4.0 are those who need stupidly fast storage... and stupidly fast storage is stupidly expensive. In other words, if you *really* need PCIe 4.0, you can afford X570.

From AMD's side, it makes sense to keep X470/B350 around for as long as they can, both because they don't actually have a replacement for them, secondly to recoup the cost of having those chipsets developed, and thirdly to ensure all the inventory is digested.

Consumers will also win because X570 will push the prices of X470 and B350 boards down, which means we'll be able to get more features for less money. As someone who's going to be building a Ryzen 2 system in a couple of months, this makes me pretty happy.

And for anyone wondering why AMD made an X570 chipset at all: they had to because ASmedia isn't ready, but they actually cheated because the "chipset" is simply a slightly modified version of the IO die present on Ryzen 2.


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## Tomgang (Jun 15, 2019)

This dosent matter so much for me, as i have all ready pretty much set my mind for ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Hero with out wifi motherboard with X570 chipsæt and a Ryzen 9 3950X CPU. Only if intel pulls a rabbit out of there hat and presents a cpu/chipsæt that are truly specielt and a good price (Knowing intel, a good price is not gonna happen) or Ryzen 3000 turns out to be a big fail.

This will be my future setup, replacing my X58 setup. Just waiting for reviews and off cause that i get saved up some more money for it.


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## Metroid (Jun 15, 2019)

Rumour has, an x590 appeared in the wild charging $500 plus. Get ready trolls.


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## GreiverBlade (Jun 15, 2019)

Metroid said:


> Rumour has, an x590 appeared in the wild charging $500 plus. Get ready trolls.


meh .... X570 is already in the 600-777$ range for the top elite mobos that everyone will obviously need (*cough*sarcasme*cough*) ... that price for the X590 doesn't line up   (oh well again ... a X590 at 500$+ or 700$+ plus a R9 3950X will still be less than a 9980XE alone ... yep i am repeating myself but as i said ... no need to complain with pricing that line up with the current offer  )


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## zlobby (Jun 15, 2019)

Metroid said:


> Rumour has, an x590 appeared in the wild charging $500 plus. Get ready trolls.


Cheapest ROG Zenith Alpha costs 600Eur (in EU at least) right now, nearly a year after initial release.

$500 sound like a good news.

EDIT: I didn't pay attention that it's not the X599. It's rather a premium of the already premium X570. Eek!


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## Metroid (Jun 15, 2019)

zlobby said:


> Cheapest ROG Zenith Alpha costs 600Eur (in EU at least) right now, nearly a year after initial release.
> 
> $500 sound like a good news.
> 
> EDIT: I didn't pay attention that it's not the X599. It's rather a premium of the already premium X570. Eek!



The way things are, amd motherboard partners will make AMD to create a yet premium premium premium x599 at $1000 plus.

Asus call the people who buys their rog motherboards "AAA Gamers"






I wonder what Asus will call the people who will buy their premium premium x590. "AAA Gamers" will become "$$$ Gamers" hehe



Fixed!!!!!


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## zlobby (Jun 15, 2019)

Metroid said:


> The way things are, amd motherboard partners will make AMD to create a yet premium premium premium x599 at $1000 plus.
> 
> Asus call the people who buys their rog motherboards "AAA Gamers"
> 
> ...


That ROM made me giggle. Too bad it's true, though.

That's why I will vote with my wallet, i.e. they can sooki mi kooki. Shame, I can really use a beefy Threadripper now.


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## Metroid (Jun 16, 2019)

zlobby said:


> That ROM made me giggle. Too bad it's true, though.
> 
> That's why I will vote with my wallet, i.e. they can sooki mi kooki. Shame, I can really use a beefy Threadripper now.



I think what I did was pretty good hehe, rom at the top of the pyramid hehe and if you think about, that is very true, asus never named that price point yet because that would be against money itself hehe


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## Durvelle27 (Jun 16, 2019)

evernessince said:


> *B350, X370, B450, and X470 motherboards will all support Ryzen 3000 series CPUs.*


You forgot B350

My board which is a B350 chipset has had Ryzen 3000 support added


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## Metroid (Jun 16, 2019)

Durvelle27 said:


> You forgot B350
> 
> My board which is a B350 chipset has had Ryzen 3000 support added



Did he forget? b350 was the first thing he said.


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## Durvelle27 (Jun 16, 2019)

Metroid said:


> Did he forget? b350 was the first thing he said.


I added that

this is his original post



evernessince said:


> Given that PCIe is a bleeding edge feature that mostly interests professionals only, I doubt it will come anywhere near seriously hampering sales.  It will be priced according to the market it is targeting. If your end goal is to have PCIe 4.0 when you need it you'd be much better off getting a quality B450 board now and then another board when you acutally need PCIe 4.0.  That would likely run you the same amount as a cheap X570 board and you'd have a constantly up to date PC.  Unless you explicitly need 4.0 right now, that makes the most sense.
> 
> The 2080 Ti is nowhere near saturating PCIe 3.0, we are at least 6 years out from needing PCIe 4.0.  Right now it is strictly for professionals.
> 
> *X370, B450, and X470 motherboards will all support Ryzen 3000 series CPUs*.


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## GreiverBlade (Jun 16, 2019)

Metroid said:


> The way things are, amd motherboard partners will make AMD to create a yet premium premium premium x599 at $1000 plus.


nah AMD will do nothing ... but the partners will probably make that kind of mobo at 1000$ ...  (but not a X599 ... it's a Intel mobo chip )


buuuuutttt ... we can bet a AMD 1k$ mobo plus the top of the line CPU (HEDT or not) will still be cheaper than a 9980XE ......... again ... pfeeeeewww the price of the 9980XE is almost a meme, oh well... 



Metroid said:


> The way things are, amd motherboard partners will make AMD to create a yet premium premium premium x599 at $1000 plus.
> 
> Asus call the people who buys their rog motherboards "AAA Gamers"
> 
> ...



nonetheless ... the fixes made my day (Sun ... day ... )




zlobby said:


> Cheapest ROG Zenith Alpha costs 600Eur (in EU at least) right now, nearly a year after initial release.
> 
> $500 sound like a good news.
> 
> EDIT: I didn't pay attention that it's not the X599. It's rather a premium of the already premium X570. Eek!


kinda confused? ... X599 : intel, X570: upcoming AMD chipset (and well ... since, as i mentioned, there is no "ultra high end" X470 in the actual lineup ... a 500+ premium X570 is not too disturbing ... )

X570 has a standard pricing ... compared to X470 and in direct continuation of the X470 pricing (well ... compared to my country ) thus not "already premium"  since as i mentioned once... a low end X570 is priced around a first price X470 and et cetera .... i fail to see where is "OOOOHHHH THE HORROR PRICING!!!" aside the "ultra high end" mobo that didn't exist in the X470 lineup but that have a logical raise in price compared to the rest of the lineup ... 

making mountains out of molehills ... i guess ...


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## erocker (Jun 16, 2019)

They're saying expensive and that may very well be at first, but it seems there's also going to be a lot of competition. I would expect there will be deals a month or two after launch.


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## GreiverBlade (Jun 16, 2019)

erocker said:


> They're saying expensive and that may very well be at first, but it seems there's also going to be a lot of competition. I would expect there will be deals a month or two after launch.


still not seeing where is the expensive part ... for me ... they cost the same as their X470 equivalent  (again aside the "ultra high end" but they are priced adequately )

and well ... for the last part ... all the X470 lineup prices never budged from their launch price for me ... (ok maybe +/-10$ )


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## HwGeek (Jun 16, 2019)

No Matter how much X590 gonna cost- it will still give you better VFM then Apple's $999.99 Monitor Stand .


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## zlobby (Jun 16, 2019)

HwGeek said:


> No Matter how much X590 gonna cost- it will still give you better VFM then Apple's $999.99 Monitor Stand .


Bad part is most manufacturers are putting the 'brand tax' in their products too, e.g. ROG, 'gaming', 'professional', etc. Worst part - people are still buying since it makes their e-peens larger.


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## TheLostSwede (Jun 16, 2019)

There's no X590 chipset, just like there was no Z490.



zlobby said:


> Bad part is most manufacturers are putting the 'brand tax' in their products too, e.g. ROG, 'gaming', 'professional', etc. Worst part - people are still buying since it makes their e-peens larger.



Keep in mind that the sub $200 boards are four layer PCBs, then up to around $400 is six layer and above that, eight layers. So you are not just paying brand tax, as the higher-end boards also costs more to make.


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## zlobby (Jun 16, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> There's no X590 chipset, just like there was no Z490.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that the sub $200 boards are four layer PCBs, then up to around $400 is six layer and above that, eight layers. So you are not just paying brand tax, as the higher-end boards also costs more to make.


AFAIK, only the latest water-cooled ASRock X570 has 8-layer PCB. The rest are only marketed as 2oz. copper, to my knowledge.

Plus, we both know the BOM and the R&D aren't that much higher between mid/high and ultra-high end.


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## TheLostSwede (Jun 16, 2019)

zlobby said:


> AFAIK, only the latest water-cooled ASRock X570 has 8-layer PCB. The rest are only marketed as 2oz. copper, to my knowledge.
> 
> Plus, we both know the BOM and the R&D aren't that much higher between mid/high and ultra-high end.



Nah, the Gigabyte Aorus Xtreme is eight. I think the MSI X570 Godlike and Asus ROG Crosshair VIII are also eight.
The 2oz copper thing is a Gigabyte slogan, even if others most likely have it, they don't market it as such.

The BOM is a fair bit higher on these ultra-high-end boards, as they have things like 10Gbps Ethernet, which adds around $50 to the BOM, plus Wi-Fi, better audio components and even SSD expansion cards. It all adds up once the board makers put their margin on it, then the distributor and finally the reseller...


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## HwGeek (Jun 16, 2019)

Found out that First Gen Ryzen is supported on Gigabyte's X570 board- So is it vendor dependent? 








						X570 AORUS MASTER (rev. 1.0) Key Features | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global
					

Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...




					www.gigabyte.com


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## mstenholm (Jun 16, 2019)

HwGeek said:


> Found out that First Gen Ryzen is supported on Gigabyte's X570 board- So is it vendor dependent?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When or rather where did this question pop up?


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## HwGeek (Jun 16, 2019)

AMD officially claimed that 1st gen is not supported.


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## mstenholm (Jun 16, 2019)

HwGeek said:


> AMD officially claimed that 1st gen is not supported.
> View attachment 125053


OK....but this thread turns into a "every thing about Ryzen MBs"


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## JB_Gamer (Jun 16, 2019)

fynxer said:


> Really weird that it will take that long for low and mid range motherboards to enter market.
> 
> This will seriously hamper Ryzen 3 and 5 cpu sales rest of the year for people looking for Ryzen 3000 PCIe 4.0 system on a budget.
> 
> ...



If You will use that motherbosrd for 5 years, then choose X570. Calculate how much that increased cost in $ will be split per month (divide by 60).



TheLostSwede said:


> There's no X590 chipset, just like there was no Z490.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that the sub $200 boards are four layer PCBs, then up to around $400 is six layer and above that, eight layers. So you are not just paying brand tax, as the higher-end boards also costs more to make.



Manufacturers rarely inform whether the PCB is 4, 6 or 8 layers, that I find really bad.


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## TheLostSwede (Jun 16, 2019)

JB_Gamer said:


> Manufacturers rarely inform whether the PCB is 4, 6 or 8 layers, that I find really bad.



I'm not sure how much it really matters, as long as the board works. I'm at least not losing sleep over it.
That said, I tend to end up getting boards in the six layer price range normally.


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## Imsochobo (Jun 16, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Based on what exactly? Making a statement like that without backing it up is just silly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Every board should be able to show that value, I've hacked some boards to get some settings they didn't offer that I absolutely needed, it's not for everyone but it's possible.
I can 100% understand why AMD does not want to support it!..

A Pci-E slot has same bandwidth as a DDR4 single channel at 3200 according to buildzoid so we know how much boards with superb tracing for memory costs and how much it matters, and now it'll matter for all pci-e slots, m2 slots, to chipset.
No wonder why it's more expensive!


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## zlobby (Jun 16, 2019)

Imsochobo said:


> Every board should be able to show that value, I've hacked some boards to get some settings they didn't offer that I absolutely needed, it's not for everyone but it's possible.
> I can 100% understand why AMD does not want to support it!..
> 
> A Pci-E slot has same bandwidth as a DDR4 single channel at 3200 according to buildzoid so we know how much boards with superb tracing for memory costs and how much it matters, and now it'll matter for all pci-e slots, m2 slots, to chipset.
> No wonder why it's more expensive!



So, which settings are not available unless hacked in? And why AMD would leave them out of the stock BIOS?

Also, how is DDR4@3200 (~25Gbps) equal to PCIe3.0 x16 (~16Gbps)?

You'd also be surprised how easy is for a knowledgeable guy with modern software to trace a physical interface on PCB. It's the testing and validation that are expensive.


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## Manu_PT (Jun 16, 2019)

GreiverBlade said:


> nah AMD will do nothing ... but the partners will probably make that kind of mobo at 1000$ ...  (but not a X599 ... it's a Intel mobo chip )
> 
> 
> buuuuutttt ... we can bet a AMD 1k$ mobo plus the top of the line CPU (HEDT or not) will still be cheaper than a 9980XE ......... again ... pfeeeeewww the price of the 9980XE is almost a meme, oh well...
> ...



I see many young fellas here hyped for the 3950x and how it trumps Intel etc

Mind you, 16c/32t on DUAL CHANNEL memory will be a bottleneck fest on a lot of applications. Not all of them tho.

You read it here first.


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## Imsochobo (Jun 17, 2019)

zlobby said:


> So, which settings are not available unless hacked in? And why AMD would leave them out of the stock BIOS?
> 
> Also, how is DDR4@3200 (~25Gbps) equal to PCIe3.0 x16 (~16Gbps)?
> 
> You'd also be surprised how easy is for a knowledgeable guy with modern software to trace a physical interface on PCB. It's the testing and validation that are expensive.




PCI-E 4.0 has badwidth of 31.5 GB/s for a 16X slot, same as a DIMM slot for DDR4 3200.


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## GreiverBlade (Jun 17, 2019)

Manu_PT said:


> I see many young fellas here


it will still be cheaper than Intel ... even with the new upcoming one that will "dominate" AMD
and it's not the 3950x that trump Intel ... actually 

sooo what's the point? oh btw ... young? that's rich coming from someone who is 10yrs younger 

don't worry i intend to take a X470 and a R7 3700x/R5 3600x which will still be a better value for the money than the upcoming line from Intel ... i guess i am just fed up that they did f'ck up the OC via M$ update and disabled any OC stability on my 6600K and also all their issues with the meltdown spectre et cetera which once the mitigation put in place lowered their ipc to what it was really, so, then their vulnerability came from tricks that made them faster? that's even richer... compromise on security to make them faster and so they can put up a outrageous pricing (granted more by blind customer loyalty than performances gap in reality ) is really awesome ...


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## RichF (Jun 18, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> What does the chipset have to do with performance? It's simply a PCIe and peripheral connectivity bridge chip.
> 
> The motherboard design might be improved slightly to allow for better memory performance past a certain point, but that's the only thing I can think of, beyond PCIe 4.0 support.


So,

• I mentioned memory performance as a potential area that differentiates B550 from B450
• you then ask me what B550 will have to do with performance
• you then proceed to cite memory performance as a potential area of improvement

Do you see the humor here?

Until we know for certain that B550 won't be important to getting full performance out of Ryzen 3000 (aside from PCI-e 4 which isn't relevant since it's restricted to the top tier chipset) then people shouldn't make proclamations about how irrelevant B550 is. That was what I was trying to get across.

• Motherboard quality may need to be higher in B550 to guarantee 3200 out of the box with broad compatibility, in a manner similar to the way PCI-e 4 requires more layers apparently.
• BIOS updates may be more forthcoming for B550 to get better memory performance at speeds beyond 3200, and with better timings and compatibility.
• B die being EOL may impact increase the importance of board and BIOS quality.

One way to trick one's way into supporting higher RAM frequencies is to have the board automatically loosen some lesser-known settings a whole lot. That kind of flabby approach is likely to be discovered by serious enthusiast reviewers.

Top top things off, I read that some B350 boards may never get 3000 series support. Perhaps that has changed but an earlier article I read suggested that only the "more popular" boards would get the update. And, many boards may only get beta BIOS support. Many are not happy installing a beta BIOS.


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## trom89 (Jun 21, 2019)

So, the consumers are to expect to buy an new board with AM4 socket in the Q1 of 2020 when the AM4 chips will stop rolling at the end of 2020 (7+nm)?
Betting on a socket at the end of his life?!


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## plonk420 (Jun 29, 2019)

madness777 said:


> Gigabyte B450M DS3H already has a Gen4 option in the BIOS. It's a 70€ motherboard.
> 
> View attachment 124992



which bios version is that? i've started collecting them in case the pre-1.0 AGESA ones "mysteriously disappear"



HwGeek said:


> Found out that First Gen Ryzen is supported on Gigabyte's X570 board- So is it vendor dependent?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



more likely a mis-paste. i think i saw a gigabyte rep on reddit saying that they'd correct stuff like that. that's how i look at it unless there's an official announcement from the manufacturer or someone analyzes the BIOS bin


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## littleappletree (Aug 10, 2019)

As someone coming from 7th Gen. Intel going with a 400 series board is a hassle I'd rather not deal with since I don't have a CPU to update the bios (I'm aware they will send you one but that is the hassle I meant) and is essentially what is stopping me from upgrading at this time. By the time AMD releases B550, Intel will probably have something better out or right around the corner stopping me from jumping from going with AMD 3000 series and a B550.


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## zlobby (Aug 10, 2019)

littleappletree said:


> As someone coming from 7th Gen. Intel going with a 400 series board is a hassle I'd rather not deal with since I don't have a CPU to update the bios (I'm aware they will send you one but that is the hassle I meant) and is essentially what is stopping me from upgrading at this time. By the time AMD releases B550, Intel will probably have something better out or right around the corner stopping me from jumping from going with AMD 3000 series and a B550.


And that's the beauty of it! Nobody is forcing anybody to buy this brand or that.


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## littleappletree (Aug 10, 2019)

zlobby said:


> And that's the beauty of it! Nobody is forcing anybody to buy this brand or that.


True but that's just bad business from AMD, any difficulty with point of entry to your line up is an issue. Alternatively Motherboard manufacturers could start shipping 400 series boards Ryzen 3000 ready, but until I see that it's a bummer that it exist.


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## shmuck (Aug 10, 2019)

littleappletree said:


> True but that's just bad business from AMD, any difficulty with point of entry to your line up is an issue. Alternatively Motherboard manufacturers could start shipping 400 series boards Ryzen 3000 ready, but until I see that it's a bummer that it exist.



You know that some retailers are able to flash the BIOS for you when you're purchasing a board, right?


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## zlobby (Aug 11, 2019)

littleappletree said:


> True but that's just bad business from AMD, any difficulty with point of entry to your line up is an issue. Alternatively Motherboard manufacturers could start shipping 400 series boards Ryzen 3000 ready, but until I see that it's a bummer that it exist.



Intel: makes 1 socket lasts 6 months.
Everyone: praise lawd Jeezus!
AMD: makes 1 socket lasts 4 years.
Everyone: autistic screeching

I guess no matter what you do there always going to be that one guy.


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## smaddeus (Aug 22, 2019)

Zubasa said:


> Also people act like budget users need PCI-E 4.0, which is useful only on new NVME SSDs.
> Nvme SSD is not the most budget friendly option in the first place.



I am not sure where you are living, but NVMe SSD's are killing SATA SSD's, they are cheap, and the speed is 2x faster as minimum that NVMe has, 1GB at least of reading and writing for around 50-80 Euro's. 1-3GB(reading/writing) NVMe I can get for around 60-80 Euro's with 240GB - 512GB of memory. For example ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro 512GB, it has damn 3GB+ writing and reading...that's like 6-7x more of top performing SATA SSD's for the same price if not lower, costs just 80 Euro's (depending if those SSD's are or aren't MLC, since those are expensier, but if we look at TLC, then it's just about 70-100 Euro's for an SSD of 240-512GB capacity and 500-550MB reading/writing speeds, obviously NVMe is the way to go).

Personally I am looking for NVMe SSD MLC for OS, TLC can be for game storing with 512GB and 3GB reading/writing. I am planning in near future to get AORUS NVMe Gen 4 SSD, 1TB memory, and up to 5GB reading and 4GB writing speed, of course it costs quite a sum 250-300 Euro's , but much more worth than SATA SSD's, and performance is just unbelievable for such price.

The only sad thing I dislike, is that they all are, or majority are, TCL, and MCL are rare to find in this haystack of TCL's.


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## Zubasa (Aug 22, 2019)

smaddeus said:


> I am not sure where you are living, but NVMe SSD's are killing SATA SSD's, they are cheap, and the speed is 2x faster as minimum that NVMe has, 1GB at least of reading and writing for around 50-80 Euro's. 1-3GB(reading/writing) NVMe I can get for around 60-80 Euro's with 240GB - 512GB of memory. For example ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro 512GB, it has damn 3GB+ writing and reading...that's like 6-7x more of top performing SATA SSD's for the same price if not lower, costs just 80 Euro's (depending if those SSD's are or aren't MLC, since those are expensier, but if we look at TLC, then it's just about 70-100 Euro's for an SSD of 240-512GB capacity and 500-550MB reading/writing speeds, obviously NVMe is the way to go).
> 
> Personally I am looking for NVMe SSD MLC for OS, TLC can be for game storing with 512GB and 3GB reading/writing. I am planning in near future to get AORUS NVMe Gen 4 SSD, 1TB memory, and up to 5GB reading and 4GB writing speed, of course it costs quite a sum 250-300 Euro's , but much more worth than SATA SSD's, and performance is just unbelievable for such price.
> 
> The only sad thing I dislike, is that they all are, or majority are, TCL, and MCL are rare to find in this haystack of TCL's.


The fallacy is all of that is just sequential transfers.
The real bottleneck that nvme is hitting is IOPs, and PCI-E 4.0 SSD is not inherently faster than PCI-E 3.0 SSDs in IOPs, especially important is the low queue depth IOPs.
PC work loads rarely invlove huge sequential transfers but lots of rather small files.

You act like PCI-E 4 will benefit all of those PCI-E 3 SSD that you mentioned, it doesn't.
My point is PCI-E 4 is not something that budget user should be looking at, and even today it is still true.
The lower end NVME SSDs still do not offer significant low queue depth IOPs performance over the better SATA SSDs.


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## smaddeus (Aug 22, 2019)

Zubasa said:


> The fallacy is all of that is just sequential transfers.
> The real bottleneck that nvme is hitting is IOPs, and PCI-E 4.0 SSD is not inherently faster than PCI-E 3.0 SSDs in IOPs, especially important is the low queue depth IOPs.
> PC work loads rarely invlove huge sequential transfers but lots of rather small files.
> 
> ...



Sorry, forgot to mention I was talking about M.2 not PCIe's. I see no point at why I should place in a PCIe slot that will be taken by graphics card that usually takes 2 slots, and who knows, maybe a third slot, getting in the way of 2nd PCI 8x slot, maybe in future I would like to get a sound card as well. There wont be space for PCI slotted NVMe, but that's not my argument, I just better buy an NVMe M.2 not PCIe slotted SSD, it doesn't get in the way (unless you buy an AORUS model, that has a beefy passive radiator on, might get in the way in slotted below X16 PCIe slot where graphics card will be.).


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## Zubasa (Aug 22, 2019)

smaddeus said:


> Sorry, forgot to mention I was talking about M.2 not PCIe's


Well m.2 nvme is just using up to 4 lanes of PCI-E, performance wise it is no different from PCI-E 4x add-in-cards.
As for M.2 AHCI that is just SATA signal and offers no performance benefit what so ever over 2.5 inch SSDs.
The only benefit for M.2 AHCI drives is no extra cables to deal with and saves space.

This thread is about supposely B550 and A520 chipsets, most of these mother boards will be sub-100 Euro, so for budget users every little bit of saving counts.
The A320 chipset is only used in super low-end boards or OEM boards that cost like $40 USD. A520 is the supposed replacement.


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## smaddeus (Aug 22, 2019)

Zubasa said:


> Well m.2 nvme is just using up to 4 lanes of PCI-E, performance wise it is no different from PCI-E 4x add-in-cards.
> As for M.2 AHCI that is just SATA signal and offers no performance benefit what so ever over 2.5 inch SSDs.
> The only benefit for M.2 AHCI drives is no extra cables to deal with and saves space.


But why buy SATA SSD that has max ~550mb reads and/or writes, if you can get for the same price 3GB+ reads and writes despite whether it boosts or not performance? There is no real argument to bother using SATA if at the same price, and you can get more reads and writes despite using it or not... it's simply a self limitation, since there is no difference as you are stating.


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## Zubasa (Aug 22, 2019)

smaddeus said:


> But why buy SATA SSD that has max ~550mb reads and/or writes, if you can get for the same price 3GB+ reads and writes? There is no real argument to bother using SATA if at the same price and all you can get the same that has more despite using it or not... it's simply a self limitation, since there is no difference as you are stating.


Discounts happens, so of course if an NVME cost less than SATA SSD they are worth considering.
But do also note that there are often also 2.5 inch SSDs that goes on discount for basically nothing.


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## smaddeus (Aug 22, 2019)

Zubasa said:


> Discounts happens, so of course if an NVME cost less than SATA SSD they are worth considering.
> But do also note that there are often also 2.5 inch SSDs that goes on discount for basically nothing.


No discounts... like the M.2. SSD I threw in as an example, base price is ~80 Euro's... 512GB, 3GB+ read and write... before that I was looking at SATA SSD around same price (before I learned about TLC and MLC differences), TLC as well .
I guess I will have to throw that model again. 
ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro 512GB SSD PCIe Gen3x4 M.2 2280 NVMe 3350/2350 MB/s     costs 84 Euro's without any discount and such. 
Samsung 970 EVO Plus 250GB M.2 PCIE MZ-V7S250BW    costs 82 Euro's.

Sure I see some that cost 160, 200-500 Euro's, but those are depending on capacity, such as 1TB for 160-200, and 2TB for 500, same Samsung 970 EVO Plus 2TB M.2 PCIE MZ-V7S2T0BW, it's a 2TB drive, that's the only difference why it is expensive ~500 Euro's. 
But this is affordable as hell (the 80's Euro ones). 250 for OS and 512 for gaming, and 3GB read write, doesn't matter if sequential. Not sure what else you need than speed and capacity.

Of course the other difference being the fact that you need new mobo for M.2. slots, otherwise you gotta survive with SATA, but if you plan a new PC build, then surely the M.2. is something to consider having on a mobo, since it makes no difference in costs and is future proof as well, especially in age of quick technology development.


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## Zubasa (Aug 22, 2019)

smaddeus said:


> No discounts... like the M.2. SSD I threw in as an example, base price is ~80 Euro's... 512GB, 3GB+ read and write... before that I was looking at SATA SSD around same price (before I learned about TLC and MLC differences), TLC as well .
> I guess I will have to throw that model again.
> ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro 512GB SSD PCIe Gen3x4 M.2 2280 NVMe 3350/2350 MB/s     costs 84 Euro's without any discount and such.
> Samsung 970 EVO Plus 250GB M.2 PCIE MZ-V7S250BW    costs 82 Euro's.
> ...


For that kind of price you can get 1TB SATA drives, with many of the modern AAA games going to 50~100GB per game 512GB drives will run out very fast.
Also by the nature of cheaper TLC SSDs is they tend to lose speed as they fill up, so in the end you really are not getting much of a difference in performance.
On a budget more capacity is better than theoretical performance. In the best case senario for nvme SSD you save a few seconds on load times.


Spoiler



https://www.techpowerup.com/review/seagate-ironwolf-ssd-480-gb/12.html


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## smaddeus (Aug 22, 2019)

Zubasa said:


> For that kind of price you can get 1TB SATA drives, with many of the modern AAA games going to 50~100GB per game 512GB drives will run out very fast.
> Also by the nature of TLC SSDs is they tend to lose speed as they fill up, so in the end you really are not getting much of a difference performance.
> On a budget more capacity is better than theoretical performance.
> 
> ...



Haven't found for 80 Euro's a 1TB SATA, maybe if you are talking about HDD's and not SSD's, then yea, you can, but I wouldn't use a HDD for gaming anymore, already have one 1.5TB for maybe more than 8 years, but not SSD under or around 100 Euro mark. I still see no real argument to keep using SATA SSD's as there is no loss in going NVMe at no cost difference that delivers more despite whether you use it or not.

On budget you can get yourself HDD, but it performs worse than SSD, lets get real if we're talking about practicality vs theoretical on a budget. Despite being on budget you still want to get the best.

But I will stop arguing about this, because clearly you are just as stubborn as myself. I believe there is no real argument to why keep using SATA for core parts, or not enough arguments to prove it.


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