# NVIDIA Claims AMD Cannot Play HD Content; AMD Rebuttal Shows Otherwise



## zekrahminator (Nov 17, 2007)

At NVIDIA's recent Editors Day, NVIDIA tried pretty hard to show just how awesome they think the 8800GT is. To do this, they took two computers, put an 8800GT in one, a 2900XT on the other, paired both to a 30" HP monitor that runs at a native 2560x1600 resolution, and tried to get both to play an HD-DVD. The 2900XT, according to NVIDIA, could not play any HD content, and was limited to 1920x1200. The incriminating slide is below. However, AMD was very prompt in their rebuttal. While the 8800GT can display HD content in a resolution higher than 1920x1200, none of the other 8800 cards can. The 8800GTX and Ultra, which are more powerful than the 8800GT and much more expensive, are limited to single-key HDCP, limiting the resolution and playback to 1920x1200. AMD then put an HD-DVD in the drive of a test system with an HD 3850, plugged it into a monitor capable of displaying a 2560x1600 resolution, and watched the movie in full screen with full hardware acceleration. AMD was also able to achieve full-screen playback on a test system with 2 HD 2900XTs. 





*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


----------



## nflesher87 (Nov 17, 2007)

lol looks like nvidia's feeling the 38** release and getting a bit defensive


----------



## Deleted member 30823 (Nov 17, 2007)

Lol!


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Nov 17, 2007)

Wow was that not obvious?


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (Nov 17, 2007)

anything to get a rep?

for shame nvidia.


----------



## KennyT772 (Nov 17, 2007)

The 2900's lack UVD therefore, no hardware acceleration. A 2600 or 2400 can do it with ease. 

In short, nVidia is a dumbass just trying to deface ati.


----------



## nflesher87 (Nov 17, 2007)

KennyT772 said:


> In short, nVidia is a dumbass just trying to deface ati.


----------



## Cold Storm (Nov 17, 2007)

I wonder if Nvidia needs to go back to grammer school and learn how to read again? Or, how about tech school and ability to know what "specs" mean?


----------



## Kreij (Nov 17, 2007)

Can someone send their Mom over here to make the kids play nice together?


----------



## jpierce55 (Nov 17, 2007)

The thing is the 8800 is really a great card and at the original release price smokes the 3870's but now the price is hiked and Nvidia has some competition.


----------



## panchoman (Nov 17, 2007)

Kreij said:


> Can someone send their Mom over here to make the kids play nice together?



agree 

This is really a stupid move by nvidia.


----------



## intel igent (Nov 17, 2007)

KennyT772 said:


> The 2900's lack UVD therefore, no hardware acceleration. A 2600 or 2400 can do it with ease.
> 
> In short, nVidia is a dumbass just trying to deface ati.



Nvidia's sales tactics are horrible ive seen them doing this kind of shit for the last few years. ever since the radeon 9x00 series of cards (from wat i remember)

that is one reason i WONT buy Nvidia. the other, they SUCK.


----------



## Cold Storm (Nov 17, 2007)

They just know what ATI can do. so now they are wanting to try and tell the people, unlike us, that just look at ads, that Nvidia does this... Then you get some people that go to the "geek squad" for help on it and they don't even really know whats going out... But soon they will see how a simple ad can really hurt them in the long run...


----------



## Kreij (Nov 17, 2007)

Nvidia has decent products. I don't realy know why they feel they need to stoop to this kind of product bashing. It just makes them look juvenile.


----------



## Chewy (Nov 17, 2007)

This is the reson why I dislike Nvidia.. but thier 8800series rocked.. its just like apple thing in my sig, but worst since its a complete lie as nv is notorious for.


----------



## Cold Storm (Nov 17, 2007)

I believe that its to make people who don't know what to look for a reason to buy theirs... a person that knows that they need to get a new GC because of the new games and are looking for one right now, they see this and just go for Nvidia.


----------



## SK-1 (Nov 17, 2007)

Cold Storm said:


> I believe that its to make people who don't know what to look for a reason to buy theirs... a person that knows that they need to get a new GC because of the new games and are looking for one right now, they see this and just go for Nvidia.



Once a gamer is in this upper eshilon of hardware,...they generally know, to a degree, what is going on.
I do diligence on anything electronic the 100.00 and up range.


----------



## KennyT772 (Nov 17, 2007)

But how many people who buy alienware, VM, XPS, know whats really going on? This is who this is aimed at. Not us.


----------



## intel igent (Nov 17, 2007)

KennyT772 said:


> But how many people who buy alienware, VM, XPS, know whats really going on? This is who this is aimed at. Not us.



yup.

the "sheeple"


----------



## Cold Storm (Nov 17, 2007)

SK-1 said:


> Once a gamer is in this upper eshilon of hardware,...they generally know, to a degree, what is going on.
> I do diligence on anything electronic the 100.00 and up range.



oh yeah, I agree with you 100%. But there are people out there that just play Farcry and FEAR  that see Crysis and want that... Buy Crysis and can't play it so they see an ad like this and just goes for one thing.
 But, people like us, go and spend 3 to 4 days, 1 to 3 weeks to look and see which ones to get. Then when we do even find that, that still means 4 days to find the right price... Not everyone that plays games believe in looking at all the possibilities.


----------



## WarEagleAU (Nov 17, 2007)

Im all for a dumbass company shooting themselves in the foot. ATI said the 2900XT couldnt display full content at resolutions that high, they didnt incorporate UVD. DUH~


----------



## simlariver (Nov 17, 2007)

This is childish.


----------



## Kreij (Nov 17, 2007)

I don't believe that this kind of thind is for the "sheeple". They are the type to just buy a pre-built system at the advice of the sales person and never bother to look up specs and features of the hardware that they are buying.
Nvidia is aiming this at the people who are digging into the nuts and bolts of their hardware.
Sad to say, their target audience already knows what the hardware will do.
Maybe Nvidia needs to come here to TPU and lets us write their promos


----------



## Fragman (Nov 17, 2007)

And without NVIDIA PureVideo Decoder that you have to buy the hardware HD doesent work if it warks at alle i takes ome time to make PureVideo work on a computer if you can get it to work there ar a flood of post on nvidias forum about purevideo not working....


----------



## X-TeNDeR (Nov 17, 2007)

I don't like this kind of marketing. so they might catch some customers, but in the end, it just looks bad. [fanboy]AMD FTW![\fanboy]


----------



## Kreij (Nov 17, 2007)

I don't consider myself an ATI fanboy as I have owned Nvidia cards and they have run well.
The problem is that I have had so many issues with Nvidia drivers that I don't buy their hardware anymore.
ATI also has issues, but out of the box, their hardware and drivers are more stable and I have less problems.
My pair of 1950s run flawlessly.

So ... ATI FTW!


----------



## EastCoasthandle (Nov 17, 2007)

If this ad is current a lot of you missed what they did here.  (were is that "I see what you did there" pic).  If you notice, they made no mention to ATI's 3870 and focus on a EOL 2900.  
It's the absence of not recognizing the 3870 which is the most telling.


----------



## AddSub (Nov 17, 2007)

> The problem is that I have had so many issues with Nvidia drivers



Same here. NVIDIA has terrible drivers. Each version fixes something but it breaks something else. (usually compatibility with an older title) Also, every new version of NVIDIA’s drivers seems to reduce overall performance for the sake of compatibility with latest titles. I've owned 6 NVIDIA cards from 2002-2006, and I must admit I was missing out on some great hardware as far as ATI is concerned. I got my first ATI card last year, I was so impressed that I got two more for my other machines, replacing NVIDIA ones in the process. I was always told by various people that ATI drivers were terrible compared to NVIDIA’s. So I figured, if NVIDIA’s drivers were terrible, as I knew from my experience, ATI's drivers would cause my system to instantly combust. That was not true, obviously.  Also, I must admit, ATI cards have better image quality. 




> It's the absence of not recognizing the 3870 which is the most telling.



Yup, that it is. You can easily see this was not aimed at the enthusiast community, since anyone who knows anything can see this demonstration for what it is.


----------



## imperialreign (Nov 17, 2007)

sorry, I get the feeling this is more targeted at those people who absolutely have to have the most newest-uber-max-shite.  As in, those who've already got the 30" HD LCDs and the bad-ass pornjection screens.

These people are buying the largest monitors and TVs that they can because they want that "home theater" experience for watching mostly movies - not games.  We all know the higher the resolution thats being displayed, the slower your game is going to run - so we really don't care.  But if you want to watch "Transformers" on Blu-Ray, you don't want to have a CRT-style black border around the displayed image, right?


----------



## Grings (Nov 17, 2007)

One thing they seem to forget to mention is image quality playing back video, a scenario where my old x1800 pwns my 8800


----------



## Ketxxx (Nov 17, 2007)

AddSub said:


> I was always told by various people that ATI drivers were terrible compared to NVIDIA’s. So I figured, if NVIDIA’s drivers were terrible, as I knew from my experience, ATI's drivers would cause my system to instantly combust. That was not true, obviously.  Also, I must admit, ATI cards have better image quality.



I've been saying that for years to people, ATi drivers are FAR better than nVidias. Sure ATi have their problems, what driver doesnt, but for compatibility, reliability and image quality, ATi beat the living shit out of nVidia drivers. Its also why I won't buy nVidia stuff now, their drivers are piss poor. I had so many BSODs with my last nVidia card (6800GT) I was jumping for joy when my 1950Pro arrived.

Now as for this debacle.. *sniff sniff* LAWSUIT! As petty as it may seem at first glance, ATi have a legitimate reason to go for one, nVidia have deliberately tried to deface ATi, and to an extent, is false advertising of ATi hardware capabilities.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Nov 17, 2007)

does nvidia really feel that self conscience? the 8800 series is great. the 8800gt is a superb product for the money. they dont need to try and trick people into buying this product. my plan was to eventually buy an 8800gt, but now im going to wait for the new ati 3000 series.


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (Nov 17, 2007)

Easy Rhino said:


> does nvidia really feel that self conscience? the 8800 series is great. the 8800gt is a superb product for the money. they dont need to try and trick people into buying this product. my plan was to eventually buy an 8800gt, but now im going to wait for the new ati 3000 series.



they are out.


----------



## imperialreign (Nov 17, 2007)

> Now as for this debacle.. *sniff sniff* LAWSUIT! As petty as it may seem at first glance, ATi have a legitimate reason to go for one, nVidia have deliberately tried to deface ATi, and to an extent, is false advertising of ATi hardware capabilities.



As much as that's true, and nVidia did knowingly say what they did and stout that as being hard fact . . .

. . . ATI just aren't like that.  They haven't ever struck me as the type to retaliate in court - they've always turned the other cheek, so-to-say.



> does nvidia really feel that self conscience? the 8800 series is great. the 8800gt is a superb product for the money. they dont need to try and trick people into buying this product. my plan was to eventually buy an 8800gt, but now im going to wait for the new ati 3000 series.



naw, I don't think nVidia is really that worried - at least where the 2900 is concerned, but the newer 3800 series are a completely different matter.  Like I said before, I think nVidia has been quite complacent in their lead over ATI, and probably were under the impression that the 3800 series would end up like the 2900s did, and now that ATI has proven they're not . . . nVidia feels threatened by it and isn't sure how to respond.

Don't worry - nVidia has been seemingly making mistakes a little more often than they normally do recently, and I think we're going to see another shift in GPU competition leadership within the next year - and with people becoming more focused on image quality recently, especially with the HD craze, I'm really under the impression that ATI will take the lead for quite a while again.


----------



## paul06660 (Nov 18, 2007)

Hell even the X850 XT AGP is more powerful than 2 6800's in SLI.
Nvidia is about to get their ass kicked again.


----------



## AsRock (Nov 18, 2007)

WarEagleAU said:


> Im all for a dumbass company shooting themselves in the foot. ATI said the 2900XT couldnt display full content at resolutions that high, they didnt incorporate UVD. DUH~




All though my HD2900XT box says it can do UVD or can it at low res ?...  I don't need UVD so dun care overall.  In the end it is sad that nvidia would do this but it don't surprise me though.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Nov 18, 2007)

after reading all this, am i the only one a little confused. i guess in the end all i want is AMD to do better. not because im a fanboy, but because if AMD does better than there is better competition and prices are lower!


----------



## Random Murderer (Nov 18, 2007)

Cold Storm said:


> I wonder if Nvidia needs to go back to_* grammer *_school and learn how to read again? Or, how about tech school and ability to know what "specs" mean?



do you mean "grammar?"


----------



## strick94u (Nov 18, 2007)

Sure gets Hot in here everytime there is a new release ati or nvidia. Are you shocked by what a large corperation will stoop to? Ati and Nvidia killed alot of good graphic companies to get where they are, its you people that make it dirty. I am sure soon there will be a post about what Ati did and the nvidia fans will cry foul. from now on its Matrox for me


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 18, 2007)

To the court room AMD and nvidia!


----------



## Random Murderer (Nov 18, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> To the court room AMD and nvidia!



no, give the ceo's of both companies a sword and have them fight to the death!


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 18, 2007)

Ive heard many People Complain about Nvidias Driver Releases, is this true, For me ive been using ATI for the Last 5 years and they suprised me, Drivers are very Solid Since Catalyst 4s. I am currently running 7.6s but when i get the 1950 in my machine ill be running latest.


----------



## Cold Storm (Nov 18, 2007)

Random Murderer said:


> no, give the ceo's of both companies a sword and have them fight to the death!



Just let them play a game that they both think is good enough on each system. Then we will see if they are the best at what they say they are! Point and key! Top gamer on each port and see whats goes on. Then we can clam who's the best! swords are the age that we pasted up and wasn't apart of. Tech is our day!


----------



## Random Murderer (Nov 18, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> Ive heard many People Complain about Nvidias Driver Releases, is this true, For me ive been using ATI for the Last 5 years and they suprised me, Drivers are very Solid Since Catalyst 4s. I am currently running 7.6s but when i get the 1950 in my machine ill be running latest.



actually, from my experience, the 7.6's are best for 1950's.


----------



## Woah Mama! (Nov 18, 2007)

Intel/nVidia = Australian Liberal Party

AMD/ATi = Australian Labor Party


 I know which one is trying to do scare tactics that are coming back to rape them.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 18, 2007)

ya know what INQ is not reputable for what they say, i wouldnt trust them.


----------



## TooFast (Nov 18, 2007)

LOL ati rules....


----------



## intel igent (Nov 18, 2007)

paul06660 said:


> Hell even the X850 XT AGP is more powerful than 2 6800's in SLI.
> Nvidia is about to get their ass kicked again.



no but the PE was close


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 18, 2007)

everything is such a big pissing match nowadays, people forget if one company falls out of existence, prices go up and crappy products are released.


----------



## paul06660 (Nov 18, 2007)

intel igent said:


> no but the PE was close



Im pretty sure the 6800's clock was like around the 250mhz range with 8 pixel pipes on the regular. The X850 XT has 520 mhz and 16 Pixel pipes. Im pretty sure this is more than twice as fast as one 6800 isnt it?


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 18, 2007)

Woah Mama! said:


> Intel/nVidia = Australian Liberal Party
> 
> AMD/ATi = Australian Labor Party
> 
> ...



LOL SO F@#ING TRUE!  Especially with the work choices slavery system. I rofl'ed at the "most of labour are union" ad, wow, scary music, but... Do most people even give a damn? 

w00t for the free laptop for year 9 to 12 policy if kevin rudd wins! hahaha...>=D. I'd love a laptop!


----------



## Mussels (Nov 18, 2007)

intel igent said:


> that is one reason i WONT buy Nvidia. the other, they SUCK.



Its off topic... but sh!t i wish i was a mod, i'd ban every fanboy douche who makes stupid announcements without any facts to back them up.

I wont buy ATI because they dont work widescreen - you cant enable scaling options and have black bars like Nvidia (or ATI mobility products) can, so in your terms "ATI SUCK". for gods sake, grow up and keep this on topic.


On-topic, this is funny. Nvidia 8800GTX cant do that stupid of a res, because its AN OLD CARD. the 2900 came out almost a year later, so of course its going to get picked on for being late, and missing a few features.


----------



## jpierce55 (Nov 18, 2007)

Mussels said:


> Its off topic... but sh!t i wish i was a mod, i'd ban every fanboy douche who makes stupid announcements without any facts to back them up.
> 
> I wont buy ATI because they dont work widescreen - you cant enable scaling options and have black bars like Nvidia (or ATI mobility products) can, so in your terms "ATI SUCK". for gods sake, grow up and keep this on topic.
> 
> ...



Funny I have a widescreen????


----------



## jpierce55 (Nov 18, 2007)

paul06660 said:


> Hell even the X850 XT AGP is more powerful than 2 6800's in SLI.
> Nvidia is about to get their ass kicked again.



I am an ATI fan, but realistically Nvidia still has the faster card. At the current pricing the 8800gt/3870 are about equal on performance per $. If Nvidia drops back down or ATI raises up Nvidia will still take it. The mid-range 3850 will tear the mid-range Nvidia up, and ATI might even take it on the low end. They don't have the top end yet.

At least ATI is once again competitive and that is great because as somebody else stated the competition drives prices down and performance up.


----------



## Tatty_One (Nov 18, 2007)

jpierce55 said:


> The thing is the 8800 is really a great card and at the original release price smokes the 3870's but now the price is hiked and Nvidia has some competition.



I agree but it's difficult at this stage to compare the 2, unlike the 8800GT, there is not one set of drivers yet released to support the 3870/3850, the drivers that come with the card are a made up set from probably an alpha/beta release of the forthcoming Catalyst 7.11 so no software support yet, a bit like the very early reviews of the 2900XT at it's release, the early benches of that card on pre-release drivers showed aweful performance and all the NVidia owners breathed a sigh of relief..........then 2 weeks later the card really started performing, It will be interesting to see how the 2 cards compare in a few weeks time after a couple of catalyst releases.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 18, 2007)

ati is trying to put all their eggs in the basket with the R680, they need a new sense of direction to take over the market like they did with R300.


----------



## zekrahminator (Nov 18, 2007)

jpierce55 said:


> Funny I have a widescreen????



Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm happily gaming at 1440x900 .


----------



## Ketxxx (Nov 18, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> As much as that's true, and nVidia did knowingly say what they did and stout that as being hard fact . . .
> 
> . . . ATI just aren't like that.  They haven't ever struck me as the type to retaliate in court - they've always turned the other cheek, so-to-say.



TRue, IMO ATi should file a lawsuit tho, if they did I'd put money on nVidia would think twice before trying to pull a stunt like that again. It's probably why nVidia do do it, because they know ATi never do anything. For crying out loud ATi, stand up for yourselves!


----------



## Ketxxx (Nov 18, 2007)

paul06660 said:


> Im pretty sure the 6800's clock was like around the 250mhz range with 8 pixel pipes on the regular. The X850 XT has 520 mhz and 16 Pixel pipes. Im pretty sure this is more than twice as fast as one 6800 isnt it?



Vanilla 6800 was 12 pipes with 128MB frame buffer, your thinking of the GS model, which was released some time later to sell off surplus 6800 GPU stocks.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 18, 2007)

they are trying by releasing better products than the competition, my Adventure started with R300 and up to R570


----------



## Cold Storm (Nov 18, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> TRue, IMO ATi should file a lawsuit tho, if they did I'd put money on nVidia would think twice before trying to pull a stunt like that again. It's probably why nVidia do do it, because they know ATi never do anything. For crying out loud ATi, stand up for yourselves!



I think it would be a dream come true if ATI would finally do something like that. I know ad wars are nasty, but this takes the cake. If they stand for themselves then there will be no untruthful ads and bashing ads.


----------



## intel igent (Nov 18, 2007)

Mussels said:


> sh!t i wish i was a mod, i'd ban every fanboy douche who makes stupid announcements



listen bud i aint no fanboi. thats my opinion. you dont like it FUCK OFF! 

you want to call me a douche heres my # 416-8*8-54*5 lets meet up and ill bag ur douche n feed it to ya. PANSY. i live in canada so bring ur toque. prick.

PM me and ill give ya the other 2 #'s so we can meet and exchange pleasantries k sweetlips.


/end rant/


----------



## Chewy (Nov 18, 2007)

Mussels said:


> Its off topic... but sh!t i wish i was a mod, i'd ban every fanboy douche who makes stupid announcements without any facts to back them up.



Heh, thats one reason why I dont like Nv and was dead against buying any of thier products.. Thier marketing team sucks always giving false/bad information and paying game companies off to promote thier stuff tweak the game so it runs like crap on ati (its happened).


----------



## Cold Storm (Nov 18, 2007)

Chewy said:


> Heh, thats one reason why I dont like Nv and was dead against buying any of thier products.. Thier marketing team sucks always giving false/bad information and paying game companies off to promote thier stuff tweak the game so it runs like crap on ati (its happened).



Your right on the money... Crysis looks good on an ati card, but with a NVidia card its great... If companies could build for both, than the world would be whole lot better!!! Or just equal...


----------



## Chewy (Nov 18, 2007)

Titan Quest  is a game Im pretty sure was tweaked for Nvidia cards.. my 1900gt was seposed to be more than enough for it but it ran totally crap on it.. yet on a weaker Nv card it ran fine.


----------



## Tatty_One (Nov 18, 2007)

intel igent said:


> listen bud i aint no fanboi. thats my opinion. you dont like it FUCK OFF!
> 
> you want to call me a douche heres my # 416-8*8-54*5 lets meet up and ill bag ur douche n feed it to ya. PANSY. i live in canada so bring ur toque. prick.
> 
> ...



Can I assume from that.......that your not happy then?   being not happy is one thing, taking it personally when it was a general comment not aimed specifically at you (and you said UR not a fanboi so it couldnt be aimed at you) but fanboi's in general, and then making threats is un called for.....as you say.........

/end rant/[/QUOTE]


----------



## Wile E (Nov 18, 2007)

For the widescreen argument, Mussels is referring to scaling, not actual widescreen resolutions. ATI automatically stretches a 4:3 signal to fit the entire screen, as opposed to putting it in a letterbox in the center of the screen. I prefer the letterbox, personally, and this is my #1 complaint with ATI drivers.

@ intel igent- come on man, settle down. It's an internet disagreement, don't let it get to you.


----------



## imperialreign (Nov 18, 2007)

> I think it would be a dream come true if ATI would finally do something like that. I know ad wars are nasty, but this takes the cake. If they stand for themselves then there will be no untruthful ads and bashing ads.



True, and I do think it would be a wise move on their part to pursue it - but ATI just doesn't stoop to nVidia's level.

Instead, they'll prob retaliate on the same grounds as nVidia - they'll find some claim that nVidia has made about their hardware, and ATI will prove them wrong . . .

. . . or, challenge them to produce those same results in public - while ATI runs those same tests with the same exact hardware.  nVidia usually backs down quick whenever ATI has challenged them to a public "shoot out".


----------



## Ravenas (Nov 18, 2007)

Chewy said:


> This is the reson why I dislike Nvidia.. but thier 8800series rocked.. its just like apple thing in my sig, but worst since its a complete lie as nv is notorious for.



It's not like Apple. Apple is a company that builds their computer to work optimally with their OS. They don't have to deal with tons of manufactures like Dell and HP to make their products work on all computers. So in that way, Apple does have an advantage. Meaning, their OS is going to run very well on their computers because they built their computer to work optimally for the OS (which isn't the case for Windows). This is just one advantage Apple has on the market.

Nvidia stooping to this level is ridiculous, and I don't understand way they would. It's not as if ATI has been dominating the market as of recently and for that reason Nvidia would have a reason to create false claims in hopes of hurting ATI's sells. This is just one reason of why I'm regretting my one and only switch to Nvidia...

EDIT: Also, I think that Apple should be saying their product is superior because they don't own half the market that MS does. Therefore, it is in their best interests to do this, mostly because they need the market. Whether in your opinion it is as good, well that's just your opinion.

The point is, Nvidia has no reason to be doing this, especially when their claims are false, because as of right now, they have a lot of the market.


----------



## intel igent (Nov 18, 2007)

he directly quoted me and called me a douche and a fanboi.

i can GUARANTEE you i am neither.

i dont let crap like that slide. he could have made other comments but HE chose to be the "douchy fanboi".

thnx.


----------



## DarkMatter (Nov 18, 2007)

It's pretty funny how someone can show a picture that is crearly at least a month old, make a biased article and see fanboys arise in anger 

Look at the slide For Gods Sake!!! In the foreground, in transparent green letters we can read: "NVIDIA Confidential Embargo day is Oct 29" So it's obvious this was shown long before AMD released HD3000 series. Can Nvidia ask AMD to send them one of their cards long before they launch them? I don't think so.

So here are the facts:

1. This slide was shown long before HD3000 series were launched.

2. I can't read anywhere in the slide something like: "AMD can't play HD". What I do read is HD2900XT can't reproduce HD content at 2560x1600, something that AFAIK is TRUE.

So time for the fanboys to start THINKING before trying to bash anyone, even NVIDIA. Even if when Nvidia did this, it wasn't a prudent move, because they knew HD3000 series would be able to play at that resolution. Was a good move? Maybe not. Were they saying the truth? YES, back then HD2900XT couldn't do that. Grow up!

PD: I am not a fanboy. I don't side with any brand. But I do side with the truth.


----------



## imperialreign (Nov 18, 2007)

> So time for the fanboys to start THINKING before trying to bash anyone, even NVIDIA. Even if when Nvidia did this, it wasn't a prudent move, because they knew HD3000 series would be able to play at that resolution. Was a good move? Maybe not. Were they saying the truth? YES, back then HD2900XT couldn't do that. Grow up!




  The point most of us are trying to make is that ATI had never stated that the 2900 could display HD content at a screen resolution greater than 1920x2000.  But, what nVidia did was state that any HD playback wasn't possible with the 2900 - which is just flat out false.  But anyways, nVidia making this statement is a form of mud slinging against ATI to win more customer back to the nVidia aisle.  Again, ATI never said the 2900 could display HD content at a screen res bigger than 1920x2000.

even back when that slide was done up by nVidia - OCT 29 - we all knew the 3800 series was coming very shortly.  nVidia might not have had the newest meat on the market, but they were trying to showoff that their meat is still the best tasting on the block.


----------



## cdawall (Nov 18, 2007)

paul06660 said:


> Hell even the X850 XT AGP is more powerful than 2 6800's in SLI.
> Nvidia is about to get their ass kicked again.



do you really have a point not trying to fanboy anything but my 7800GS is faster than a X850 and has SM3  which means i can play BIOSHOCK and it cannot


ALSO this is turning into a NV bash party which is crap yea NV fucked up and went to try and point out a flaw in ATi cards _Oooo_ they found one and exploited it that sounds a LOT like every other company on *EARTH!!!*


----------



## Ravenas (Nov 18, 2007)

cdawall said:


> do you really have a point not trying to fanboy anything but my 7800GS is faster than a X850 and has SM3  which means i can play BIOSHOCK and it cannot
> 
> 
> ALSO this is turning into a NV bash party which is crap yea NV fucked up and went to try and point out a flaw in ATi cards _Oooo_ they found one and exploited it that sounds a LOT like every other company on *EARTH!!!*



What's your point lol, most every company gets bashed equally.


----------



## DarkMatter (Nov 18, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> The point most of us are trying to make is that ATI had never stated that the 2900 could display HD content at a screen resolution greater than 1920x2000.  But, what nVidia did was state that any HD playback wasn't possible with the 2900 - which is just flat out false.  But anyways, nVidia making this statement is a form of mud slinging against ATI to win more customer back to the nVidia aisle.  Again, ATI never said the 2900 could display HD content at a screen res bigger than 1920x2000.
> 
> even back when that slide was done up by nVidia - OCT 29 - we all knew the 3800 series was coming very shortly.  nVidia might not have had the newest meat on the market, but they were trying to showoff that their meat is still the best tasting on the block.



My words are still true. When Nvidia showed that slide it was 25-26 Oct. 8800GT was released 29 Oct. At that time 8800GT was clearly superior to what AMD had to offer at playing HD content at 2560x1600. True?

At that time HD3000 was still vaporware. Final specs weren't official yet. So claiming that 8800GT was the only card OUT capable of doing that is correct. True?

Maybe AMD/ATI haven't done something like that. But what they have done is trying to sell/hype vaporware so many times tht I can't count them right now. They did it with HD2900 and they did it with X1000 series. Months before release they have claimed superiority, in the end and on their price point that ended up being true. But that doesn't change the fact that Ati also used that kind of estrategies in the past. It's easy for a company to release hardware months later and being superior. *EDIT:* This is so true that Tom's Hardware and other sites refused to make any preview of Ati hardware before they were at retail.

Also I have seen so many times The Inquirer taking someone's words and taking them out of context, that I can imagine them doing the article only out of that slide. It's been done before. Where Nvidia said "HD2900XT can't..." they write "AMD can't"... Hope you understand what I'm saying. Since I haven't read what Nvidia said (and I have searched for another source to this, but found nothing), and the only proof they give us is that slide, I have to think that way. Good periodists and columnists contrast their information. Me too, even if I am not one of them.


----------



## imperialreign (Nov 18, 2007)

> Maybe AMD/ATI haven't done something like that. But what they have done is trying to sell/hype vaporware so many times tht I can't count them right now. They did it with HD2900 and they did it with X1000 series. Months before release they have claimed superiority, in the end and on their price point that ended up being true. But that doesn't change the fact that Ati also used that kind of estrategies in the past. It's easy for a company to release hardware months later and being superior. EDIT: This is so true that Tom's Hardware and other sites refused to make any review of Ati hardware before they were at retail.
> 
> Also I have seen so many times The Inquirer taking someone's words and taking them out of context, that I can imagine them doing the article only out of that slide. It's been done before. Where Nvidia said "HD2900XT can't..." they write "AMD can't"... Hope you understand what I'm saying. Since I haven't read what Nvidia said (and I have searched for another source to this, but found nothing), and the only proof they give us is that slide, I have to think that way. Good periodists and columnists contrast their information. Me too, even if I am not one of them.



Oh, I completely understand that - any good review of a product should have both sides and not be biased at all.  It's partly why if I run across a review of new hardware, I'll immediately dismiss it if they display any ATI or nVidia advertising on their page.  They may say they're not biased - but they still might be getting some loot under the table to favor one make over another.  I've seen it done a lot in the automotive industry, and I'm sure it happens with other industries, also.




> My words are still true. When Nvidia showed that slide it was 25-26 Oct. 8800GT was released 29 Oct. At that time 8800GT was clearly superior to what AMD had to offer at playing HD content at 2560x1600. True?
> 
> At that time HD3000 was still vaporware. Final specs weren't official yet. So claiming that 8800GT was the only card OUT capable of doing that is correct. True?



True, and that's fine and good for nVidia - but they're comparing apples and oranges, IMO.  The 2900's were released before we were seeing 30" monitors on the market, so how can one expect _that_ hardware to meet those native screen resolutions?  But, nVidia doesn't say anything about that.

What nVidia should've done - is wait until the 3800s were released, and comparing the 8800GT to that, instead of jumping the gun.  At the end of October, everyone knew the 3800s were right around the corner, ATI even having giving an ETA on them - it's just, no one had any specs, yet - which was just a bit unusual for ATI . . . almost like they were trying to keep the 3800s under wraps for as long as possible . . .


----------



## DarkMatter (Nov 18, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> What nVidia should've done - is wait until the 3800s were released, and comparing the 8800GT to that, instead of jumping the gun.  At the end of October, everyone knew the 3800s were right around the corner, ATI even having giving an ETA on them - it's just, no one had any specs, yet - which was just a bit unusual for ATI . . . almost like they were trying to keep the 3800s under wraps for as long as possible . . .




HAHAHAHA!! That was funny! 

A company has to wait for competition??  Since when. If you have a better* product before the competition you try to sell it. You don't say "Ey! I have the better product now, but if you wait just a month the competition is going to release their counterpart, so you have better off waiting..." And all that in *their own event*? 
Well, TBH, that kind of behavior would make this world a lot better place to live on. LOL

*When I say better, undrestand that I'm refering to playing HD at 2560x1600, or any other claim that it is true in the moment of the claim.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 19, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> The point most of us are trying to make is that ATI had never stated that the 2900 could display HD content at a screen resolution greater than 1920x2000.  But, what nVidia did was state that any HD playback wasn't possible with the 2900 - which is just flat out false.  But anyways, nVidia making this statement is a form of mud slinging against ATI to win more customer back to the nVidia aisle.  Again, ATI never said the 2900 could display HD content at a screen res bigger than 1920x2000.
> 
> even back when that slide was done up by nVidia - OCT 29 - we all knew the 3800 series was coming very shortly.  nVidia might not have had the newest meat on the market, but they were trying to showoff that their meat is still the best tasting on the block.



Ya Know what i think, who cares if the Cards can do this or that on a 1920x1200 Screen, because if you think about it majority of Gamers will be running on 1280x1024 or 1024x768 Screens.


----------



## imperialreign (Nov 19, 2007)

> Ya Know what i think, who cares if the Cards can do this or that on a 1920x1200 Screen, because if you think about it majority of Gamers will be running on 1280x1024 or 1024x768 Screens.



I understand that eidair - I was pointing out that this article on nVidia's part is targeted at those buying hardware for HD viewing on large monitors (30") and pronjection screens - not at us gamers.


----------



## MadCow (Nov 19, 2007)

Did anybody else notice the last picture in the article? It shows 2 2900XTs in crossfire doing fullscreen HD on a 30" screen.


----------



## hercules71185 (Nov 19, 2007)

I think its weird that nvidia does both but ati is one or the other


----------



## Xaser04 (Nov 19, 2007)

jpierce55 said:
			
		

> At the current pricing the 8800gt/3870 are about equal on performance per $




It depends where you live though. 

For example here in the UK you can pick up (well out of stock but still the price is correct) a Zotac 8800GT for £160 with free delivery. On the same website the HD3870 is the same price (you can get it for around £150 but you will have to pay p & p on top). At these prices the 8800GT is easily the better choice.


----------



## hercules71185 (Nov 19, 2007)

what I was saying on the last post is people are claiming in the first pages of this forum nvidia did them wrong by comparing cards that aren't meant for that. Well isn't that a good point then? For example. they just pulled a hey I can do this 10 times better than you and STILL out perform you in every benchmark. I'm not biased towards any company just the better card for the price. I rocked a radeon 9550 back in the day. then a nvidia 6800. Now a nvidia 8600gt. And about to pull out onto the new 3870 because it is a great deal or if the 8800gt is ever in stock again or if the 256 version drops under 200 I'm sold on 2 of them. I don't really care what company does what in any way. Why not just have the best per dollar system?
I wish that applied to gamers for the superhd whatever it is. playing a game on a 30" screen with the resolution maxed would be sick. Whoever plays crysis in dx10 mode with all candy on. I wanna see it. Whether its 4 of the ati crossfires or what that would be phenomenal no pun intended.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 19, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> I understand that eidair - I was pointing out that this article on nVidia's part is targeted at those buying hardware for HD viewing on large monitors (30") and pronjection screens - not at us gamers.



i think majority of users will have HD setop boxes over a PC, sad but true.


----------



## cdawall (Nov 19, 2007)

i will be playing on a mitsu 65in 1080P DLP as soon as i get a DVI-hdmi converter


----------



## imperialreign (Nov 19, 2007)

all I'm saying is that it seems that home entertainement is quickly moving into the PC world.  It's only been within the last year or so that the consumer can go out and buy a HD-DVD or BLU-RAY capable optical drive, and only the last couple of years since HD TVs and monitors have entered the market - as the price of new equipment comes down, more and more people are picking it up.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing in anyway shape or form . . . it's just that most gamers aren't out there pricing 30" monitors, simply because to run a game at that native resolution would be like watching a slide show - unless you've got all the bad-ass hardware to handle that strain, and the vast majority of people don't.


Anyways, to kind of sum up how I interpeted nVidia's propaganda there . . . it'd be like if Reebok released an advertisement stating that Nike tennis shoes don't have good traction at all because Nike doesn't offer shoe sizes bigger than size 15.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 21, 2007)

well im getting at fact that a PC can be unstable at times, also very prone to failure, Most Settop boxes run off of just Firmware and no software.


imperialreign said:


> all I'm saying is that it seems that home entertainement is quickly moving into the PC world.  It's only been within the last year or so that the consumer can go out and buy a HD-DVD or BLU-RAY capable optical drive, and only the last couple of years since HD TVs and monitors have entered the market - as the price of new equipment comes down, more and more people are picking it up.
> 
> I'm not saying it's a bad thing in anyway shape or form . . . it's just that most gamers aren't out there pricing 30" monitors, simply because to run a game at that native resolution would be like watching a slide show - unless you've got all the bad-ass hardware to handle that strain, and the vast majority of people don't.
> 
> ...


----------

