# Time for water!! Which US online shop?



## digibucc (Apr 4, 2010)

Ok, finally time that i am going to WC my main rig.

I want to cool:
CPU (i7 920)
GPUs (2x5850s)

I don't know if i should cool:
Motherboard N/S bridges (Rampage II Extreme)

Don't want to cool: HDDs.. anything else?

*got shops below.  now i have a few more questions if no one minds...*

is there any reason i shouldn't go as big as possible(tubing size, 1/2"?)? 
i've got a lian-li k58 so it's a pretty decent sized case, right?

i was also thinking of a dual 140mm rad... it would fit on top.  would another be necessary, like a 120mm on back? would it be overkill?

is this GPU-x dual link necessary for xfire?

also, does anyone know what block might be compatible with this card? it's an xfx 5850, non reference. the fan is in the center in this one.

thanks everyone!!


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## erocker (Apr 4, 2010)

www.petrastechshop.com - I love them
www.sidewindercomputers.com
www.performance-pcs.com

I personally wouldn't bother cooling anything besides the cards and CPU, but I'll admit it's badass. Is it all going inside a case, outside? What kind of radiators are you looking at?


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## Kantastic (Apr 4, 2010)

Petra's and Sidewinder have been great to me, Jab-Tech not so much.


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## digibucc (Apr 4, 2010)

bump, added questions at bottom of first post...


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## erocker (Apr 4, 2010)

I like 1/2", though to tell you the truth, I doubt it makes very much difference. Smaller tubing can be easier to bend and doesn't clutter things up so much if you are W/C'ing multiple things.

The more radiators the better with two GPU's and a i7. I do think that a quality 2x140 radiator will give you better load temps than air for both the cards and cpu.

The GPU xlink is neat, I haven't seen it before, but it looks to be designed for Heatkiller blocks only. It isn't needed. Barbs and short pieces of tubing will work and might even look better.

As far as your card, I have no idea. You might want to work on a trade for some reference cards as they usually don't make non-reference full coverage blocks. Did you check the PCB to see if it is different from the reference design?


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## digibucc (Apr 4, 2010)

erocker said:


> Did you check the PCB to see if it is different from the reference design?



no i haven't. I was told it would most likely be(different), but it's at least worth the check to find out for myself. thanks so much for the quick reply


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## DOM (Apr 4, 2010)

off topic but can your cards be over volted ? i was going to order one but seems its not the same pcb as the black

also if you where going to put all those in a loop i would get a 3X rad or 4X


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## erocker (Apr 4, 2010)

It's tough to find a review on that card. XFX has 10 different 5850's!  I had no idea.

I have a feeling it's a stock PCB with a different cooler.


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## DOM (Apr 4, 2010)

erocker said:


> It's tough to find a review on that card. XFX has 10 different 5850's!  I had no idea.



they only sell 2 at newegg, they have some still on there thet they stoped selling the non balck xfx with the ref pcb so they all went cheap on the pcb :shadedshu

now im just thinking of getting a 5870 


but digibucc is there a limit on how much you want to spend ?


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## erocker (Apr 4, 2010)

Found some info. Not very good. http://www.overclock.net/ati/678344-xfx-5870-rev2-center-fan-owners.html

So:

Different PCB
Different Cooler
Judging by screenshots, the cooler doesn't work as well as the reference cooler, though is probablly quieter.

I don't think you are going to find full coverage blocks for them any time soon.


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## d3fct (Apr 4, 2010)

i ussually get my parts from www.frozencpu.com they are in new york state, buffalo i belive. i ussually get fast shipping, a day or 2 for regular 3-5 day ups.


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## digibucc (Apr 4, 2010)

DOM said:


> but digibucc is there a limit on how much you want to spend ?



well no set number... but i'd like to be below $500 USD for the whole system. I priced it out for one GPU awhile ago and it came to about $350, so i figure with another and some extra precautions $500 should cover it.

now obviously i'd be fine spending less  but i'm prepared to make the sacrifice 

that sucks erocker, thanks for the info.  card is like 3 days old  I think i will work on getting a whole system together still, and try to work out a sale for this non-ref in the meantime.

this may be stupid - but what about cooling just CPU/GPU 1 for now?  I realize I will be limited in overclocking because the second will be on stock, but other than that is it still just a waste at this point?

edit: the XXX can be overvolted, but the second is non-ref , it can't.


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## erocker (Apr 4, 2010)

You could always just go with a GPU block and put heatsinks on the rest, as long as you have a fan blowing on it.


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## d3fct (Apr 4, 2010)

something like this, was my old 8800gts. except that was air cooled but should help visually.


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## digibucc (Apr 4, 2010)

erocker said:


> You could always just go with a GPU block and put heatsinks on the rest, as long as you have a fan blowing on it.





d3fct said:


> something like this, was my old 8800gts. except that was air cooled but should help visually.



thank you both, that is surely what i will do.

despite no voltage control, it overclocks fine. i've got mine at 800/1180 - my XXX goes to about 940/1200 with voltage changes, but on XFire at what i have it i'll be happy for awhile.

I will just look for a block and HSs as you said. I thought i would have to do that anyway until i found a full coverage block for the reference one, so still doing it with the other is no problem...


now at least i have an idea and know what to look for.

thank you guys again, so much help


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## Bot (Apr 4, 2010)

i would go with at least a tri rad and use 1/2 id tubing. smaller tubing is easier to bend but kinks easier too.

i would go with fullcover blocks. it's worth the extra money. no worries that one of the mem sinks falls off etc

check out eddy's site 
http://ekwaterblocks.com/
you'll find most of his stuff at the online shops already posted here


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## d3fct (Apr 4, 2010)

i forgot to mention in the above post if u do get copper ram sinks and apply them your self, be sure to get some thermal adhesive. arctic makes some, thats what i used.


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## digibucc (Apr 4, 2010)

Bot said:


> i would go with at least a tri rad and use 1/2 id tubing. smaller tubing is easier to bend but kinks easier too.
> 
> i would go with fullcover blocks. it's worth the extra money. no worries that one of the mem sinks falls off etc
> 
> ...



the problem is my second card is non ref, so finding a full cover block is not likely.  thank you for the shop and info though, i will check it out 

as for the thermal adhesive - AS5 is fine right, the same thing i use on my cpu? i have some of that ready at all times


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## Bot (Apr 4, 2010)

on the AS, go with mx-2 or better mx-3
EK has good info on which block is compatible with which nvidia ref design and non-ref design cards

the newer swiftech blocks are nice too
http://www.swiftech.com


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 4, 2010)

If you are going to spend that kind of money I recommend this... http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=23096

Contact Coolit by phone and they can hook you up with a unit that will cool the cpu and two gpu's. If you want all contained in a case only a few cases are large enough to hold this monster, but nothing I have tried even approaches the effectiveness of a Boreas. I have pic's if you like.


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## Naekuh (Apr 4, 2010)

i like 

jab-tech 
sidewindercomputers
koolance
shoppts
performance-pcs
frozencpu
svc for cables and what else nots.



rickss69 said:


> If you are going to spend that kind of money I recommend this... http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=23096
> 
> Contact Coolit by phone and they can hook you up with a unit that will cool the cpu and two gpu's. If you want all contained in a case only a few cases are large enough to hold this monster, but nothing I have tried even approaches the effectiveness of a Boreas. I have pic's if you like.



You could build a custom setup that would dominate that boeras for 500 dollars.
And there is no way a boreas unit can handle 2 high end gpus + a cpu under load. 
It doesnt have enough TEC's.



digibucc said:


> the problem is my second card is non ref, so finding a full cover block is not likely.  thank you for the shop and info though, i will check it out
> 
> as for the thermal adhesive - AC5 is fine right, the same thing i use on my cpu? i have some of that ready at all times



Then your gonna have to do it the old fashion way with core only blocks, and ram sinks on ram and mosfets.


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 4, 2010)

Naekuh said:


> i like
> 
> jab-tech
> sidewindercomputers
> ...



I can back that up with numbers and screens...can you?


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## digibucc (Apr 4, 2010)

rickss69 said:


> I can back that up with numbers and screens...can you?



so an i7, and two 5850s and N/S bridges, at or around 30c - and no changing water, etc as it's self contained, right?
so what else would i have to buy though? tubing, blocks, etc? if it's self contained then not those, then what?

i am confused, sorry 
pics of it in a system would be AWESOME, if you don't mind.  that would help me wrap my head around it.

thank you!


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 4, 2010)

Here are some not so good pic's Rain. A short 3D06 run coming with RealTemp...


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## digibucc (Apr 4, 2010)

ok, i think  i see. you gotta have space to mount it, obviously.questions!

it replaces res, pump ... rad?

i would get blocks for my cpu/gpu, and they have pipes for it? or i contact them as you said, and get blocks from them?

can i direct the exhaust easily?

this is definitely interesting.  if it compares/beats as you say, and there is less maintenance - it may be worth the increase it price.  never heard of this, thanks.


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 4, 2010)

Just a sample. It is self contained and if you want to house it all inside a case only the larger one's can handle it. You need no other parts to go with a Boreas. Would you like to see a 4.5GHz run with temps?


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 4, 2010)

Here is a run at 4.5GHz with the Boreas. Water cooling is fun and has it's place. I have done more than my fair share of it. Truth is, no conventional water loop can compete with a Boreas. You are getting good advice here on the forum, but when I see a blatant falsehood I must intervene and set the record straight.

I don't mess with cooling cards much anymore. The new crop of video cards blow most games out of the water right out of the box, so I figure why bother? Cooling gpu's is great if you are heavy into benchmarking tho.

Can you picture yourself gaming online @ 4.9GHz? Not saying it is neccesary, but I do it regularly lol. Using the Boreas, an i5 670 and a 5870 it does not even break a sweat.


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## digibucc (Apr 4, 2010)

actually it's more for noise. the temps are important obviously: the gpus gets into 80+c and the cpu gets to 60+c on heavy load on hot days. it's getting into summer and will get worse.

i would like to drop 20c on each at least, but i need to make it as quiet as possible.  it's running 24/7 and i've got it where i want it for awhile.  i want to make it quiet and cool, and neater... as in cleaner.  wires are horrible so i'm going through this whooole process

maybe this is more than i need.. but i like the idea of low maintenance


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## PaulieG (Apr 4, 2010)

rickss69 said:


> Here is a run at 4.5GHz with the Boreas. Water cooling is fun and has it's place. I have done more than my fair share of it. Truth is, no conventional water loop can compete with a Boreas. You are getting good advice here on the forum, but when I see a blatant falsehood I must intervene and set the record straight.
> 
> I don't mess with cooling cards much anymore. The new crop of video cards blow most games out of the water right out of the box, so I figure why bother? Cooling gpu's is great if you are heavy into benchmarking tho.
> 
> ...



It's nice and all, but after looking at your screenies, your temps are maybe 5-6c lower than mine at similar clocks and vcore, though I only spent a little over $200 for my WC loop.


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 4, 2010)

Paulieg said:


> It's nice and all, but after looking at your screenies, your temps are maybe 5-6c lower than mine at similar clocks and vcore, though I only spent a little over $200 for my WC loop.



Bench it and post it with RealTemp...


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## PaulieG (Apr 4, 2010)

rickss69 said:


> Bench it and post it with RealTemp...



Going to do it right now.


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## DOM (Apr 4, 2010)

i dont think his going to get that low on water 

unless its cold


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## ERazer (Apr 4, 2010)

sub


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 4, 2010)

DOM said:


> i dont think his going to get that low on water
> 
> unless its cold



I could really mess him up if I threw the homemade chiller in the mix...


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## DOM (Apr 4, 2010)

rickss69 said:


> I could really mess him up if I threw the homemade chiller in the mix...
> 
> http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq69/rickss69/DSC00256-1.jpg



 looks like the bucket needs to be cleaned


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 4, 2010)

Don't you be making fun of my uber-tech bucket!   (Real question is why he is using water when he has a cascade right beside it...)


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## t77snapshot (Apr 4, 2010)

rickss69 said:


> I could really mess him up if I threw the homemade chiller in the mix...
> 
> http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq69/rickss69/DSC00256-1.jpg





DOM said:


> looks like the bucket needs to be cleaned



Yeah! are you cooling that chip with bongwater


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 4, 2010)

It's ice in there you dummies...


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## t77snapshot (Apr 4, 2010)

rickss69 said:


> It's ice in there you dummies...



I'm sorry...I couldn't resist Sick setup though



Lets not derail his thread ok


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## PaulieG (Apr 4, 2010)

Here ya go. Keep in mind this is with a 240 rad, with no AC. Only 2 fans in pull. Ambient temps are 24c. So, my question still stands, is a $500 TEC worth it over a $200 WC loop? Of course, I'm about at the limit of my particular setup, but how many people are going to run any higher than this other than for benching?


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 4, 2010)

In the grand scheme of things, yes it is worth it imo. I can run those settings 24/7 if need be...you cannot. It all comes down to the intended purpose of your pc.


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## PaulieG (Apr 4, 2010)

rickss69 said:


> In the grand scheme of things, yes it is worth it imo. I can run those settings 24/7 if need be...you cannot. It all comes down to the intended purpose of your pc.
> 
> http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq69/rickss69/ScreenHunter_01Mar010057.jpg



If I switched to a 360 rad, and a couple more fans I could come awful damn close 24/7 for half the cost. I can't do a 4.6 run because of motherboard BCLK limits. I get what you are saying but the price to performance ratio is not there for 99.9% of enthusiasts.


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 4, 2010)

Paulieg said:


> If I switched to a 360 rad, and a couple more fans I could come awful damn close for half the cost. I get what you are saying but the price to performance ratio is not there for 99.9% of enthusiasts.



You seem to have forgotten...most here on the forum are not in that 99.9%...

To the OP - I understand that noise is your driving motive. Hope this has been entertaining for you as well...


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## dcf-joe (Apr 4, 2010)

I bought everything necessary to cool my i7 920 from PetrasTechShop. The first time I purchased anything from them, they sent a written note telling me how they appreciated my business, and that they had personally leak tested some of the stuff before they sent it to me.

The second time I purchased from them, they included another thank you note with a really nice pen


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## PaulieG (Apr 4, 2010)

rickss69 said:


> You seem to have forgotten...most here on the forum are not in that 99.9%...
> 
> To the OP - I understand that noise is your driving motive. Hope this has been entertaining for you as well...



LOL. I said 99.9% of ENTHUSIASTS, not 99.9% of the general public.  Anyways, we all have our reasons for doing what we do, whether it's logical or not. I'm plenty guilty of it, considering I've own nearly every x58 board over the last year.  

Sorry for taking this off topic. Back on track please.


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## Bot (Apr 4, 2010)

rickss69 said:


> Here are some not so good pic's Rain. A short 3D06 run coming with RealTemp...
> 
> [url]http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq69/rickss69/th_DSC00384.jpg[/URL]



but that is a cpu only loop. sure it would hold up with two gpu's added?


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 4, 2010)

Better than a regular water loop, would'nt you think?


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## Bot (Apr 5, 2010)

on a small scale i can imagine it could be successful but two gpu's add quiet a bit of heat to a loop.
i would like to see if it could handle it.


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 5, 2010)

Erocker has been bugging me to go water for a while now. I just dont have the balls to try that with my work rig. 

Ballz, you got em' digibucc. Good luck man.


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## kenkickr (Apr 5, 2010)

I've been very happy with Sidewinder and FrozenCPU.com.  

I know frozencpu is expensive sometimes but they always have a wide assortment to look through and their Shipping and handling is top notch. If I mark priority and pay before 6PM EST I get it in 2 days....ALWAYS with them.  Also, instead of them being dicks due to *my* mistake on a order they shipped the correct item I needed AND said I could keep the wrong item.


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## digibucc (Apr 5, 2010)

kenkickr said:


> I've been very happy with Sidewinder and FrozenCPU.com.
> 
> I know frozencpu is expensive sometimes but they always have a wide assortment to look through and their Shipping and handling is top notch. If I mark priority and pay before 6PM EST I get it in 2 days....ALWAYS with them.  Also, instead of them being dicks due to *my* mistake on a order they shipped the correct item I needed AND said I could keep the wrong item.



good to know, thanks!


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 5, 2010)

Bot said:


> on a small scale i can imagine it could be successful but two gpu's add quiet a bit of heat to a loop.
> i would like to see if it could handle it.



Working on getting you that info...


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## digibucc (Apr 5, 2010)

Paulieg said:


> Here ya go. Keep in mind this is with a 240 rad, with no AC. Only 2 fans in pull. Ambient temps are 24c. So, my question still stands, is a $500 TEC worth it over a $200 WC loop? Of course, I'm about at the limit of my particular setup, but how many people are going to run any higher than this other than for benching?
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/100404/WCrun.png



could you give me more info on your setup?


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## Naekuh (Apr 5, 2010)

rickss69 said:


> I can back that up with numbers and screens...can you?





you dont know me very well do you..
My Current Config:





















Fine gulftown not fair? how about a 975?





Want to play? 

I finally got my ramblock out so i can remove 3 sticks and up the bclk more on the gulftown. 

500 dollars would get you one hell of a block and a 120x4 class radiator on a dual pump setup.
Sorry, boreas wont handle that in the upper yards once gpu is added into the EQ.

Trust me i know my TEC's. 
I currently own a custom setup, that would give your boreas a run for its money.

Cpu alone... its a nice unit.. add 2 gpu's, it will cry... big time. 
Add 2 GTX480's... and u will have a nuclear explosion.


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## MT Alex (Apr 5, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Erocker has been bugging me to go water for a while now. I just dont have the balls to try that with my work rig.
> 
> Ballz, you got em' digibucc. Good luck man.



Considering the fact that I built my first WC loop without any troubles what-so-ever, I can personally attest to the fact that any booger eating retard can safely watercool their PC.


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 5, 2010)

MT Alex said:


> Considering the fact that I built my first WC loop without any troubles what-so-ever, I can personally attest to the fact that any booger eating retard can safely watercool their PC.



Well I'm sure its not that difficult. Its just I make my living off of my rig as well as play games. So I have to be very particular on what I do and what risks I take. If you look at my specs its a very modest build and I've put a lot of thought into it.


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## MT Alex (Apr 5, 2010)

Fair enough.  I really don't eat boogers (anymore,) but I am part retarded.  You only have to be as smart as a plumber to WC.


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## DOM (Apr 5, 2010)

water coolings not hard unless your not that bright lol

you just need to know what you want and where you wanna put in your case or have the rad in the back top etc. then if your going to use a res where you want it and the pump 

then you run the tubing put clamps if you want that extra security and one think on new block just make sure you check the screws and barbs are snug thats why most leak there not tight enough


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## PaulieG (Apr 5, 2010)

digibucc said:


> could you give me more info on your setup?



EK Supreme HF block
EK Coolstream 240 rad
655 Vario pump
Custom Res (by Cyberdruid)
Scythe Gentle Typhoon 1450's
Clearflex 1/2" tubing


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## digibucc (Apr 5, 2010)

Paulieg said:


> EK Supreme HF block
> EK Coolstream 240 rad
> 655 Vario pump
> Custom Res (by Cyberdruid)
> ...



thanks very much 

I like the idea of the self contained system.  i do want to see how it handles two newer GPUs, such as the 5850s.  but it will have to do pretty well to be worth the cost i think.

with a regular water system I can just add some rads and such to get it cooler, right? it will only get so cool depending on ambient, but then there is probably other stuff i can do as well... i'd imagine?

so i'm going to price out a full system and then compare to the boreal... and see where i'm at 

i'm still new to this so any more info is always welcome. keep it coming  thanks


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 5, 2010)

Naekuh said:


> you dont know me very well do you..
> My Current Config:
> http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/aigomorla/Haruhi/IMG_1687.jpg
> 
> ...



What exactly was your point?

Your first screen shows a RealTemp run for 53 seconds...

Your second screen is of a 3D06 run with no temps...

Your third screen is with a 975 with HT disabled...

At least Paulieg was honest in his response. You however...


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## Wrigleyvillain (Apr 5, 2010)

Oh here we go! Who's making the popcorn?


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## Naekuh (Apr 5, 2010)

rickss69 said:


> What exactly was your point?
> 
> Your first screen shows a RealTemp run for 53 seconds...
> 
> ...



are u trying to have a pissing contest with me on water?
Because if u are... im game. 

First off 3D06 doesnt put out enough noticeable heat load, its a short load. 
The 975 i threw in because its a Quadcore and it was for the hell of it, but you forget i have QUADFIRE on my loop as well, which u probably dont have. 
You asked for raw numbers.. if you want a set load time call it, however i'll EAT you on the gulftown. 

Im a very respected person on XS and AT when it comes to water, and also have very close ties with koolance, I am a pain to EddyEK, and Gabe even gets annoyed of me at times. But these guys know me by name. 

the only store that wouldnt know me by name is probably frozen that i gave u on that list. 
After that, they all know me.

The BOREAS as i said is a nice kit when your after the cpu only.
It uses 12 small tec's and tries to get the most cooling potential off those 12 tec's without blowing your breaker.

Im telling u if u want everything on your loop, your TEC setup needs to pop your house breaker.



Wrigleyvillain said:


> Oh here we go! Who's making the popcorn?



Nah not going to get in trouble with paul...


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## Bot (Apr 5, 2010)

i keep the beer cool


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 5, 2010)

I suggest you run the benchmark the same as Paulieg and I did. Your other screens make no comparison at all. Very proud of that Gulfy are you?  Follow the format...


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## Naekuh (Apr 5, 2010)

Then how about Burntest on 6c/12t not breaking anywhere near 60C

I believe i had warmer ambients then today. 





If i ran it now when its 18C ambient, it would be a lot lower. 

That is on a 350 btw, im on a 360 now, and i have ton of prototype injectors coming to me from bei fei.

And yes im very happy with my gulfty..  :T
Although the 980X is my second one, because i pop'd the first Q3QP i got,
Ive been lucky with it for a few months now, had to observe an annoying NDA, but it was worth it in the end.


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 5, 2010)

If you had bothered to read the post you would have known that Paulieg and I were not discussing gpu's in the loop at the time...and I see you still can not stick to the the original benchmark which was 3D06.


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## Naekuh (Apr 5, 2010)

rickss69 said:


> If you had bothered to read the post you would have known that Paulieg and I were not discussing gpu's in the loop at the time...and I see you still can not stick to the the original benchmark which was 3D06.



ROFL... bitter to very end huh?






Theres a quick 3dmark06 run. 

Seriously, i scare testers even... the only way u can compete against me is if u pull something crazy off like this:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=248367

And u were saying a boreas can handle it:


rickss69 said:


> Contact Coolit by phone and they can hook you up with a unit that will cool the cpu and two gpu's. If you want all contained in a case only a few cases are large enough to hold this monster, but nothing I have tried even approaches the effectiveness of a Boreas. I have pic's if you like.


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## ERazer (Apr 5, 2010)

hmmm sorry guys but im not getting infos for WC


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## MetalRacer (Apr 5, 2010)

@rickss69 if I'm not mistaken you have or had a Watercool MO-RA setup, so I am curious how much of a difference there is between that and the Boreas? I'm seriously looking at getting the MO-RA is the reason I ask.


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## Naekuh (Apr 5, 2010)

ERazer said:


> hmmm sorry guys but im not getting infos for WC



Sorry... im trying to clean up my lose corners. 

But i thought all open questions was answered... was there one still left unanswered?



MetalRacer said:


> @rickss69 if I'm not mistaken you have or had a Watercool MO-RA setup, so I am curious how much of a difference there is between that and the Boreas? I'm seriously looking at getting the MO-RA is the reason I ask.



Ive played with a MORA.. there big..
Nice if ur gonna throw everything on 1 big loop for silence..
Not very nice if your going after lowest possible cpu benchmark numbers, unless u have only the cpu on it.
But then u just broke the XS definition of excessive.


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## ERazer (Apr 5, 2010)

well im n00b when it comes to wc, i see barb and barb compression which is better


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 5, 2010)

Looks like Naekuh has all your answers here...if you have a Gulftown.


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## Naekuh (Apr 5, 2010)

ERazer said:


> well im n00b when it comes to wc, i see barb and barb compression which is better



There is no better.
For barbs vs compression and non, its all on preference.
Personally i hate compressions. I'll use normal silver barbs + clamps. 
Even then i'll use quick disconnects over compressions, because i hate monkeying with the compression ring. 

But compressions vs regular is all aesthetics, u get no performance increase or decrease in any route you go. 

Guys a typical CPU loop is 120x2, cpu block, pump, and res.
120x2 has a capacity of cooling of around 250-300W depending on the fans. 
A typical I7 cpu will put out about 180-250W depending on OC.
A typical Yorkfield will put out about 150-200W depending on OC. 
So that range falls within a 120x2 range.

You go larger rad when you want to cheat the fan requirements and go quieter. 
So a 120x3 radiator has a capacity of around 450W but if u use it on a cpu, you have a net excess in cooling which can be offset by quieter fans.

Why does everyone around u and there uncle recomend u getting the largest possible radiator?
Because its upgrade path. 
The largest u can fit, because it fits, meets the fitting requirement. 
The largest means u have the most overhead, and also means there is no larger upgrade component u can use without intensive moding.

This is why we always say, unless ur going dual loops, get the largest possible rad u can fit inside your case.


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## ERazer (Apr 5, 2010)

Naekuh said:


> There is no better.
> For barbs vs compression and non, its all on preference.
> Personally i hate compressions. I'll use normal silver barbs + clamps.
> Even then i'll use quick disconnects over compressions, because i hate monkeying with the compression ring.
> ...



Nice to know b/c i just got this Thermochill PA 120.3


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## MetalRacer (Apr 5, 2010)

Naekuh said:


> Ive played with a MORA.. there big..
> Nice if ur gonna throw everything on 1 big loop for silence..
> Not very nice if your going after lowest possible cpu benchmark numbers, unless u have only the cpu on it.
> But then u just broke the XS definition of excessive.



I just plan on running my i7 X980 on the loop. I have it crunching 24/7 @ stock speeds and I want it to do that quietly, but when I run benches with it I want it as cool as possible.

rickss69 I would still like to hear your input on the MO-RA versus the Boreas.


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## Naekuh (Apr 5, 2010)

are u a gpu folder as well?


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## Wrigleyvillain (Apr 5, 2010)

ERazer said:


> hmmm sorry guys but im not getting infos for WC



But this is so much more fun!


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## MetalRacer (Apr 5, 2010)

Naekuh said:


> are u a gpu folder as well?



No gpu folding just crunching.


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## Naekuh (Apr 5, 2010)

MetalRacer said:


> No gpu folding just crunching.



then a mora would be good for ya.


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## ERazer (Apr 6, 2010)

ive been hearing to use distailed water, wat about deionized water?


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## Naekuh (Apr 8, 2010)

ERazer said:


> ive been hearing to use distailed water, wat about deionized water?



ahhh the infamouse distilled vs deionized.

Ok... normally deionzied is from distilled.
(in the EU im guessing deionized is all you can find.)

It gets some form of distilled treatment, and then they deionize it, and then package it with a really expensive price tag. 

Basically you want filtered water to its purist, which is distilled.

Deionized means all the ions have been removed, so it will be aggresive, however i havent seen anything bad happen to people who use it. 

Id say deionized isnt required, however distilled is.

(this only applies to you guys in the EU who cant find distilled... that expensive Deionized water has a form a distilled treatment...)


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 8, 2010)

Initial tests reveal that the Boreas trumps water in idle/load temps not only with the quad cores but the Gulftown as well.


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## PaulieG (Apr 8, 2010)

MetalRacer said:


> No gpu folding just crunching.



The Mora is HUGE. I believe it's overkill too, if you are just cooling the CPU. You'll do just fine with a TC 123.0


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## DOM (Apr 8, 2010)

rickss69 said:


> Initial tests reveal that the Boreas trumps water in idle/load temps not only with the quad cores but the Gulftown as well.
> 
> 
> http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq69/rickss69/ScreenHunter_02Apr081310.jpg



thats was less then 2mins load


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 8, 2010)

DOM said:


> thats was less then 2mins load



Dom - That test was run exactly like the one's above. What would you like to see/compare it to? Unlike other's, I won't try to compare a nuclear sub to a rowboat...


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## DOM (Apr 8, 2010)

aww i just saw that, both need a retest 

will i guess 4gb so it can have time to heat up

or just use your cas lol


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 8, 2010)

This one not for comparison to anything. I have to go to work now...will play with voltages and multi's later.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Apr 8, 2010)

Keep in mind shopping used for Rads and pumps. Thats if you havent bought everything yet, I bought a triple rad for $45, bought a MCP355 with a petras top for $10 (yes only $10...) I actually have more money invested in tubing and fittings than into my rads and cpu block...


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## Naekuh (Apr 8, 2010)

Paulieg said:


> The Mora is HUGE. I believe it's overkill too, if you are just cooling the CPU. You'll do just fine with a TC 123.0



i was under the asumption he was throwing his gpu's in as well.
That would would do awesome with everything on it, and 9 low speed fans for quiet. 

But if u mean cpu only.. then yes the MO-RA is too big to be useful for cpu only.  
I use mine on a 20inch box fan and hanging it out the window to get a nicer dT during summer without having to go sub ambient. 




rickss69 said:


> I won't try to compare a nuclear sub to a rowboat...



Sigh... i have yet to pull the nuclear sub on ya..
if i wanted to, i would of thrown this at ya..





Thats 5 50mm TEC's by the way... about 4x stronger then what your running. 

Just stop rickss, i can beat you on every edge, even down to a dice pot if needed.


And my cpu loop is what would be considered just a slightly upgraded cpu loop.
It has dual DDC's + PA120.3 + KL360+ a koolance res. 
I dont need to use additional power for TEC's, and since i have a 120x3 for a cpu only, i can downvolt it pretty low.

Your comparing a TEC setup with a straight water setup, where u can use anywhere near 100-150W (im guessing however learning towards slightly more. I know you have 12 small TEC's powering it) to power your TEC's and have a loud fan cooling the hotside. 

The BOREAS just doesnt win there... 
And if you ask Anyone who knows how to play with TEC's there thoughts on a BOREAS, they would all say go custom, or go straight water.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=248367

This guy is upgrading his 24 TEC coolit system to a 48 TEC system.

"I had 24 TEC’s in my last system with 3 8800’s and the power consumption was around* 713 watts idle and 926 watts under a full load w/ the CPU @ 4.2* ."

This is how u play with TEC's on water. And they cost a TON of power. 

So im scratching my head on why ur trying so desperate in beating me at lower temps when your additional power cost would offset any win by it, not to mention the noise your fans are generating by having your tec's at 100%.

TEC's just dont beat straight water unless you have no consideration for power draw.


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## digibucc (Apr 8, 2010)

1Kurgan1 said:


> Keep in mind shopping used for Rads and pumps. Thats if you havent bought everything yet, I bought a triple rad for $45, bought a MCP355 with a petras top for $10 (yes only $10...) I actually have more money invested in tubing and fittings than into my rads and cpu block...



yeah still haven't bought anything.  i'm gathering data  I would not have done that.  I know used is cheaper but i never buy used PC equipment.  A rad for sure ... but is a used pump really ok?  obviously as you are using it... just surprising.  that should save me a good about  ty

normally i'm very impulsive and make a lot of purchases without proper research... i'm trying not to let that kill my computer this time


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## Naekuh (Apr 8, 2010)

Newbies start advice is simple:

1. Get the largest case you can possibly tollerate... (even then you will run out of room)
2. Get the largest radiators your case can possibly fit. (in rads larger is better)
3. Decide if you want silence or performance.  *u can have cake and eat it too, its called multi loops*
4. Ask the dumb question, and get laughed at, then make the dumb mistake and cry over. 
5. Set a defined budget, and double it. (thats what it will take to finish your setup after u have done all your research... trust me...)

4 is very important... and usually u dont get laughed at.


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## PaulieG (Apr 8, 2010)

Naekuh said:


> i was under the asumption he was throwing his gpu's in as well.
> That would would do awesome with everything on it, and 9 low speed fans for quiet.
> 
> But if u mean cpu only.. then yes the MO-RA is too big to be useful for cpu only.
> ...



Metal asked about the Mora. I think he's only planning on the cpu.


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## digibucc (Apr 8, 2010)

Naekuh said:


> Newbies advice is simple:
> 
> 1. Get the largest case you can possibly tollerate... (even then you will run out of room)
> 2. Get the largest radiators your case can possibly fit. (in rads larger is better)
> ...



this is my case , a Lian Li PC K58

it's the biggest one i have had... is it big enough to do anything worthwhile in it?

I can fit 2 140mm fans at the top, i am thinking i can fit a dual 140 rad there as well. there is a bunch of room and PSU is on bottom.

I want to cool an i7 920 and 2x 5850s...  if i could keep the i7 near 40-c on load, and the 5850s like 60c or cooler, i'm fine with that.  
a bit more cooling from air will be great(and is expected), but quiet is my main goal.

right now i use a Corsair H50, keeping my cpu at 46c light use, around 60c on load.(have seen 40c idle
my 5850s are about 60c light use, (40c idle), and can get to 70c something on load.

thanks for all the info everyone  am enjoying this as well as learning


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## Naekuh (Apr 8, 2010)

okey first off that case your gonna be limited.

I say that because most of the 140mm radiators you can buy are thick. 
After you mounted fans, that is going to be a thick package, and your board might not fit.

Before you start buying rads, i suggest you do a through measurement to be sure you can top mount a radiator. 

Now when calculating radiator size, i use this scale.

120x1 = 150W of heat @ acceptable noise with a dT of less then 7c. 
What does that mean? it means whatever temp air your radiator is sucking, the water will not be higher then 7c. 

This is considered mid tier.. i'll explain tiers later...

So basic way to add up heat is find the TDP on your cpu, and @ stock that is the theoretical max power draw, and we assume max heat. 
Depending on your OC your TDP will change, so if ur running 50% of, u have a TDP of 130 + 65 = 195W of guessed max heat. 

Do you see how im calculating heat?

So lets say u added all your numbers and the total max heat is 400W. 

Now i said 120x1 = 150... so 120x2 = 300, 120x3 = 450 

You want 450W for a 400W system. Any additional Excess on the rad side allows a lower dT. 
If you overshoot your rad heat, then you get a greater dT.

That is how you plan your radiator requirements.

So i was talking about tiers... water has tiers.

dT > 10 Entry level... not real water... this would be a stock H5O. 
dT < 10 Mid Tier starts here... typically it is more around 7
dT < 5 this is where u get into high tiers.
dT < 2 means u spent a ton of money on your setup.
dT = 0 Not possible unless your computer is oFF

negative dT's require power into the system and that's what is known as sub ambient.


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## digibucc (Apr 8, 2010)

Naekuh said:


> awesomeness



sweet  exactly the type of information i work well with 

thank you, i will now figure out how much cooling i need, would i calculate the gpus just like the cpus?

what's the best case to use keeping in mind price/performance ?  black preferably, and i've got a dremel and am willing to grind.
i don't want a cheap one, but i do want an inexpensive one


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## Naekuh (Apr 8, 2010)

yup... usually gpu's wont be higher then 20% tho. 

i should also say a performance rating is done on dT and not price tag!!! 

So a H5O can be a high performance watersetup, however it would need to watercool an Atom, to be in that category.


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## digibucc (Apr 8, 2010)

Naekuh said:


> i should also say a performance rating is done on dT and not price tag!!!
> 
> So a H5O can be a high performance watersetup, however it would need to watercool an Atom, to be in that category.



lol


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## kid41212003 (Apr 8, 2010)

Do you think it worth the investment?

The only reason I think is worthwhile is lower noises. 

It will help you OC 300-400MHz more, and probably ~100MHz or so on your vga cards.

You will probably need to spend around $300 or more. IMO it's not worth it... You should save the money for something else.

The stock cooler look nice too...


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## Naekuh (Apr 8, 2010)

kid41212003 said:


> Do you think it worth the investment?
> 
> The only reason I think is worthwhile is lower noises.
> 
> ...



Is it worth it...

that really depends on the objective you were aiming at.

For one if your a gamer, and your gpu heavy, watercooling gpu's usually net a 40-50% reduction in loaded temps. 

Thats a hugh reduction, and also takes care of a very loud delta blower, aka stock fan. 

If your a cruncher, every 10C u lower your cpu temps, you effectively double the life of your processor. So it would help hardware in the long run under heavy load and stress conditions. 

If your just a freak like i am, then its fun... what more reason do you need besides fun?


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## digibucc (Apr 8, 2010)

kid41212003 said:


> Do you think it worth the investment?
> The only reason I think is worthwhile is lower noises.
> It will help you OC 300-400MHz more, and probably ~100MHz or so on your vga cards.
> You will probably need to spend around $300 or more. IMO it's not worth it... You should save the money for something else.
> The stock cooler look nice too...





1)gamer , 2)oc, 3)noise, 4) i want to   the only thing i spend money on is my PC and i am all upgraded out atm.  WC just makes sense.

I've been building computers for a decade and never touched water cooling.  it's time i do that i think 

so what's the recommended case?


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 9, 2010)

Naekuh said:


> i was under the asumption he was throwing his gpu's in as well.
> That would would do awesome with everything on it, and 9 low speed fans for quiet.
> 
> But if u mean cpu only.. then yes the MO-RA is too big to be useful for cpu only.
> ...



No desperation here...your water results have been beaten at every turn. Put your Hwbot results up if you want to talk smack.


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## computertechy (Apr 9, 2010)

correct me if im wrong but wouldnt a MO-RA setup require a manifold? (heard from another respected user)

jokes aside, it seems that Naekuh is steering you in the right direction digi, your in good hands.

no offence to rickss 

i was going to purchase the MO-RA considering my case could fit it with ease, but their is no point now because i have fell in love with my PA120.3 and never break 40.c(unless its summer ofcourse)



digibucc said:


> 1)gamer , 2)oc, 3)noise, 4) i want to   the only thing i spend money on is my PC and i am all upgraded out atm.  WC just makes sense.
> 
> I've been building computers for a decade and never touched water cooling.  it's time i do that i think
> 
> so what's the recommended case?



the corsair 800D is a beautiful case to watercool with as well as the 932(plenty of other's tbh). or u could just go insane and go with a mountain mods setup. (click my case gallery)


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 9, 2010)

No offense taken Techy, lol. Here is one on a Cosmos 1000 I built some time ago. It only cools the cpu atm with only two 120mm fans, but at 4.5GHz much of the time. I think if you could come up with a mount the Magicool version would be easier to deal with for mounting fans.


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## Assassin48 (Apr 9, 2010)

I cant stop myself from posting this every were lol


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 9, 2010)

^ I know it works well Asassin! ^


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## Assassin48 (Apr 9, 2010)

rickss69 said:


> ^ I know it works well Asassin! ^



I just need to get some better fans, if you look close they are being held by twist ties


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 9, 2010)

Assassin48 said:


> I just need to get some better fans, if you look close they are being held by twist ties



Believe me, you are much better off than I...


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## computertechy (Apr 9, 2010)

mmmmmmmm 

that is sexy as hell their rickss!!!

thats cosmos looks bad ass with the MO-RA....


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## digibucc (Apr 9, 2010)

so what about one of those(mo-ra) instead of a new case?  if i can just attach a 9x120mm rad to the side- (or even detached and 1 foot away at the window?) then i will get more cooling for about the same price, and I won't have an extra case(pc58) lying around.

is there any disadvantage to one of those?  the price tag isn't too scary considering a new case would be about the same, and I like mine.  not having any rad inside should give me room to mount everything else, and I will use the 5.25 bays for a res i think (unless that's ill-advised)...

that should also keep a 920 and two 5850s pretty damn cool, right? that's like 1100 watts according to the formula, and my current psu is 650 I haven't calculated my tdp yet but i was thinking about it, you can probably get an upper and lower limit using your psu wattage, couldn't you? regardless, an off the hand estimation tells me the 920 and 5850s would be close to 400w anyway, if that high.  so all the extra cooling a mo-ra provides, would make how much of an impact?


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 9, 2010)

I wasnt suggesting a new case Dig - Just showing a photo of the MO-RA mounted. I still think I would go with the Magicool version for the ease of mounting fans. You would just have to fabricate your own rad mounts. If I had it to do again that is the route I would take. I have the pump/res mounted in the Cosmos in the spot you proposed...


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## Deleted member 74752 (Apr 9, 2010)

You can see what I mean about the fan mounting here... http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...t_info&cPath=59_457_667_670&products_id=21622

There is no such provision on the MO-RA. I think with a battery of quiet fans, it would perform great. My MO-RA only has two fans atm and does a decent job, even with poor placement. Maybe someone here can recommend fans with good cfm/low noise. Fan noise doesnt bother me much as I am old and hard of hearing anyway.


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