# i5-8365U reaching 100ºC



## karmaikel (Jun 1, 2020)

It's a new HP Elitebook 8400 G6, with low cpu usage, less than 40% reaches easily 80º and it reaches 100º sometimes. It has a late 2019 bios so undervolting is not possible and I don't want to downgrade bios because it's an business laptop, not mine.

My main question is... is it ok to reach 100º sometimes? It may be ok for Intel but what about the machine longevity?

I have tried to play with Throttlestop's Turbo power limits... default turbo boost long power max is 18 and turbo short is 51, I've tried to low turbo short to 25 to reduce heat. Not great results.

I've tried also to change speed shift from 41 (4100mhz) to lower values like 32 or 36 (sorry, I have no screenshots) and neither good results, still high temperatures with lower speeds, does it worth to reduce speed just to stay away from 100º? And also some programs don't respect the 3200 or 3600mhz limit and go to the 4100mhz max speed, not sure why does it happen.

While testing... limit reasons... core-pl2 red and later pl1 red (those 2 and thelmal and edp other always yellow). Not sure what does that mean..

Any ideas/opinions? Thanks


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## Skywalker12345 (Jun 1, 2020)

Seems a bit hot for sure, i would expect 65-80C. What are your normal room temps? Perhaps look at getting a cooling/fan mat or replacing the thermal paste (probably not a good idea if a work laptop).


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## karmaikel (Jun 1, 2020)

Skywalker12345 said:


> Seems a bit hot for sure, i would expect 65-80C. What are your normal room temps? Perhaps look at getting a cooling/fan mat or replacing the thermal paste (probably not a good idea if a work laptop).



These days the room is 26-27C... the laptop at idle stays near 40C,  but it goes high very easily


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## Skywalker12345 (Jun 1, 2020)

Seems like the room temp is fine as well as the idle temp. Almost sounds like a bad thermal pad on the CPU heatsink. Couple things i would try:
1. How old is the machine? Is it full of dust?  perhaps clean the air vents/fans of laptop.
2. Use software to check fan speed. Speedfan/CPUZ?
3. Are you using your notebook/laptop on a surface that block the air vents?
4. Check for new BIOS or have your IT department look into it for you
5. CPU Thermal pads might be burnt/misplaced, check that out or have your IT department look into it for you


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## FreedomEclipse (Jun 1, 2020)

Unfortunately thats just how the cookie crumbles... HP have taken a page of out Apples book and put too powerful of a CPU inside a chassis that doesnt have good airflow or cooling to deal with satisfactory  level.

I compared your 840 G6 with the newer macbook air (2020) running a slightly weaker CPU (i5-1030NG7) and that CPU still throttled in the review. I wouldnt expect your laptop to be any different. They are both the thin ultra portable style of laptop.

HP & Apple arent the only people that have done this. So have Dell & probably a few more companies. In their eyes, so long as the laptop doesnt crash because its getting too hot - its within operational parameters which means they wont accept it back for RMA. Even if the CPU is getting so hot its thermal throttling - Nobody will accept it back for RMA unless the laptop is completely dead or in a state where its not really fit for purpose.


Sadly this is just one of the nasty practises that laptop companies have picked up. They dont want you to have a well made laptop that lasts till the end of time. They want your new laptop to die within a year so you fork out money for another one. This has always been Apple's main modus operandi.

if their badly made laptops keep you coming back to them and paying for repairs - they get paid more money, That is how they do business.

::EDIT::

Alternatively, You could try repasting your CPU with a good thermal paste. The temps could drop anywhere between 5-8'c if not more.


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## Skywalker12345 (Jun 1, 2020)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Unfortunately thats just how the cookie crumbles... HP have taken a page of out Apples book and put too powerful of a CPU inside a chassis that doesnt have good airflow or cooling to deal with satisfactory  level.
> 
> I compared your 840 G6 with the newer macbook air (2020) running a slightly weaker CPU (i5-1030NG7) and that CPU still throttled in the review. I wouldnt expect your laptop to be any different. They are both the thin ultra portable style of laptop.
> 
> ...


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## karmaikel (Jun 1, 2020)

Skywalker12345 said:


> Seems like the room temp is fine as well as the idle temp. Almost sounds like a bad thermal pad on the CPU heatsink. Couple things i would try:
> 1. How old is the machine? Is it full of dust?  perhaps clean the air vents/fans of laptop.
> 2. Use software to check fan speed. Speedfan/CPUZ?
> 3. Are you using your notebook/laptop on a surface that block the air vents?
> ...



1. is new
2. hwinfo says there are two fans, they go from 960rpm idle to 3900 load, both similar reads, but not equal
3. no, it's over a flat surface and no obstacles
4-5. I'm not sure my IT is going to do anything like that... and anyway I'm still teleworking due to covid19

But my question is, maybe there's nothing wrong with my laptop and it's a design decission to reach those temperatures to get max speed? The problem is with low time high cpu tasks, but it seems that's a big problem with a lot of laptops... (I'm new in this "world of laptops", didn't know about these problems)



FreedomEclipse said:


> They want your new laptop to die within a year so you fork out money for another one.



Within a year? I don't hope so, and in that case there would be a lot of people at my office in trouble recovering work and files from hard disks, reinstalling new software in replacement computers, that takes time/money and maybe HP wouldn't be chosen for replacements...


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## FreedomEclipse (Jun 1, 2020)

When you use your laptop. try propping the back of it up with a book. so long as its 1 or 2cm off the desk, maybe it will run a little cooler.


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## Caring1 (Jun 1, 2020)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Unfortunately thats just how the cookie crumbles... HP have taken a page of out Apples book and put too powerful of a CPU inside a chassis that doesnt have good airflow or cooling to deal with satisfactory  level.


It's a 15W TDP Processor.
For some reason it's hitting it's power limits, hence the red pl1 and pl2.
Try undervolting it using Throttlestop and disable turbo boost.


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## Max(IT) (Jun 2, 2020)

karmaikel said:


> It's a new HP Elitebook 8400 G6, with low cpu usage, less than 40% reaches easily 80º and it reaches 100º sometimes. It has a late 2019 bios so undervolting is not possible and I don't want to downgrade bios because it's an business laptop, not mine.
> 
> My main question is... is it ok to reach 100º sometimes? It may be ok for Intel but what about the machine longevity?
> 
> ...


I have a MacBook Pro 13", with a similar CPU, and while it idles at around 35º, under load (for instance an Handbrake conversion) it easily stays above 90/95º, and it throttles down to 3.1/3.2 GHz.
There is very little you can do on those thin notebooks.



FreedomEclipse said:


> Unfortunately thats just how the cookie crumbles... HP have taken a page of out Apples book and put too powerful of a CPU inside a chassis that doesnt have good airflow or cooling to deal with satisfactory  level.
> 
> I compared your 840 G6 with the newer macbook air (2020) running a slightly weaker CPU (i5-1030NG7) and that CPU still throttled in the review. I wouldnt expect your laptop to be any different. They are both the thin ultra portable style of laptop.
> 
> ...



you are right and wrong in the same post.
You are right about thermal decisions by many manufacturers (poor decisions in my opinion).
But you are wrong about durability. An Intel CPU won't die in one year because it is operating at 90º.
They are designed to operate up to 100º, and the "emergency shutdown" starts at 125/130º.
There are mechanisms in place to prevent the CPU to pass the 100º mark.

and according to many users here and on other forums, repasting isn't going to improve things most of the times.



karmaikel said:


> 1. is new
> 2. hwinfo says there are two fans, they go from 960rpm idle to 3900 load, both similar reads, but not equal
> 3. no, it's over a flat surface and no obstacles
> 4-5. I'm not sure my IT is going to do anything like that... and anyway I'm still teleworking due to covid19
> ...



Nope. Your laptop isn't going to die in one year. At least not for this reason.
There are Apple laptops operating in that range of temperatures still working after 10+ years.
Just try a little undervolt, if you can, and if you really are not comfortable with those temperatures limit the Turbo Ratio 100/200 Mhz below the maximum. You could also play with Speed Shift EPP to avoid the CPU ramping up in an aggressive way. A value around 128 should work.



Caring1 said:


> It's a 15W TDP Processor.
> For some reason it's hitting it's power limits, hence the red pl1 and pl2.
> Try undervolting it using Throttlestop and disable turbo boost.


I wouldn't disable Turbo Boost entirely, if not as a last chance measure.
It would hit performance very badly (that CPU has a quite low base frequency of 1.6 GHz).
Maybe just reduce the all-cores Turbo Ratio from 4.1 GHz to a more reasonable 3.9 GHz.


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## karmaikel (Jun 2, 2020)

As I said my laptop doesn't allow to undervolt (not sure if underpower) and I can't downgrade bios... I'd have 3 options

1 speedshift in main window, play between 0 and 255, 128 looks ok, but even that convervative setting doesn't avoid the cpu to reach 90º sometimes
2 turbo power limits, change power short max to a lower value
3 turbo power limits screen, change speedshift from 1.41 to 1.3x (and don't understand why this section is call speedshift when it looks like a multiplier limiter)

the option 1 works, but 2 and 3 not always... not sure if I'm doing something wrong. For me best option would be 3 limited to 1.36 for example. This option for example works while doing benchmarks on Throttlestop, but not on another programs


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## Vayra86 (Jun 2, 2020)

Broken fan?

As per my sig I'm not a believer that an 8th gen CPU already has thermal paste issues. Or ever within its lifetime.



Caring1 said:


> It's a 15W TDP Processor.
> For some reason it's hitting it's power limits, hence the red pl1 and pl2.
> Try undervolting it using Throttlestop and disable turbo boost.



Also this. 15W. If air is not moving, you can't cool that and no voltage will help you.


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## karmaikel (Jun 2, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> Broken fan?
> 
> As per my sig I'm not a believer that an 8th gen CPU already has thermal paste issues. Or ever within its lifetime.
> 
> ...



Fan seems to work, after the load temperature goes down fast, and you can feel the warm air going out from the holes (and the fan noise, pretty strong)


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## Mats (Jun 2, 2020)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Unfortunately thats just how the cookie crumbles... HP have taken a page of out Apples book and put too powerful of a CPU inside a chassis that doesnt have good airflow or cooling to deal with satisfactory  level.
> 
> I compared your 840 G6 with the newer macbook air (2020) running a slightly weaker CPU (i5-1030NG7) and that CPU still throttled in the review. I wouldnt expect your laptop to be any different. They are both the thin ultra portable style of laptop.


That kind of speculation doesn't really help the OP. Different brands, different CPU architectures that are also manufactured in different process nodes. Too many variables.
The MB Air (left) is all battery, while the Elitebook (right) has a larger cooler and fan.

 
Overall, the two Intel 8050U/8060U series aren't really known for running hot.

Compare it to review numbers of the OP's model instead, or something close to it. Here's the 840 G6 with the faster 8565 CPU, it only goes beyond 70° C for the first 10 seconds of full load, and stays under 70° C after that.

The 840 G5, which shares the same chassis as Elitebook 800 chassis comes in pairs (G1 & G2 identical, G3 & G4 identical , etc..), reaches *66° C* in Prime95 here, and it does not throttle. While I do expect the 8365U to run a bit hotter than the 8250U, it should be just a small increase tho. The same goes for their test of the smaller 850 G5 with a 8550U, no issues there either.

Over the course of six years, the 840 has gone from 21 to 18 mm thick. That's not dramatic compared to other models, even though it's not something I personally like. Also, the Elitebook is still more box shaped, while the Air is more of a wedge. I have an 840 G2, the fan is off for long periods of time. HP shaved off a few mm's just by abandoning the most user friendly maintenance hatch ever (easier than some tower desktop cases).
HP has made some really bad laptops over the years, but the Elitebook and Probook series are usually high quality, and quite different from the consumer models. Some components like choice of display panel are sometimes subpar, but cooling is rarely a problem.



karmaikel said:


> Any ideas/opinions?


What temp do you get when nothing is running, after a reboot for instance? Shut down programs running in the background if needed. What's the fan speed at this point?

HP Elitebook warrany is usually tied to the serial number, no need of a receipt, or similar proof of purchase. If your IT department can't help you, you should get in contact with HP directly and describe your issues.

Does it have AMD graphics? If you don't know, check the ProdID at the underside. For instance, my model is H9W20EA.


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## Max(IT) (Jun 3, 2020)

karmaikel said:


> As I said my laptop doesn't allow to undervolt (not sure if underpower) and I can't downgrade bios... I'd have 3 options
> 
> 1 speedshift in main window, play between 0 and 255, 128 looks ok, but even that convervative setting doesn't avoid the cpu to reach 90º sometimes
> 2 turbo power limits, change power short max to a lower value
> ...



Well, if it reaches 90º sometimes under load it is not an issue.
I would set EPP to 128 and live with it.
I wouldn't touch Turbo Power Limits, that are already quite low on that notebook, but you could limit maximum Turbo Ratio by 100/200 Mhz to avoid "spikes" of temperature.



Mats said:


> Compare it to review numbers of the OP's model instead, or something close to it. Here's the 840 G6 with the faster 8565 CPU, it only goes beyond 70° C for the first 10 seconds of full load, and stays under 70° C after that.
> 
> The 840 G5, which shares the same chassis as Elitebook 800 chassis comes in pairs (G1 & G2 identical, G3 & G4 identical , etc..), reaches *66° C* in Prime95 here, and it does not throttle. While I do expect the 8365U to run a bit hotter than the 8250U, it should be just a small increase tho. The same goes for their test of the smaller 850 G5 with a 8550U, no issues there either.
> 
> ...



In those reviews the notebooks are throttling like crazy.
The 840 G6 stays under 70º because the CPU is running at 2.3 GHz down from the maximum all cores frequency of 4.1 GHz.
On the other review the 840G5 reaches 66º because it is running at a very low 2.4 GHz down from the theoretical 3.4 GHz. And if you stress both CPU and GPU according to the review the CPU is going down to a ridiculous 1.4 GHz.
This is calling throttling.
HP made the choice to sacrifice performance to keep the CPU relatively cold and quiet.


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## Mats (Jun 3, 2020)

Max(IT) said:


> HP made the choice to sacrifice performance to keep the CPU relatively cold and quiet.


Going lower than maximum speed isn't always the same as throttling. I was referring to base clock speed. The main point here is that the OP's laptop behaves very differently than the reviewed ones.


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## Max(IT) (Jun 3, 2020)

Mats said:


> Going lower than maximum speed isn't always the same as throttling. I was referring to base clock speed. The main point here is that the OP's laptop behaves very differently than the reviewed ones.


It is not "thermal throttling" , but it is still throttling 
And in some cases during those tests they went even lower than base speed...

I agree with your point about his notebook's behavior being different from the reviewed one, but are we speaking about the same model ? Maybe HP changed their mind regarding thermal policy in the new models, allowing for higher temperatures. I don't know.
What I know is that I would prefer a CPU running at 3.5/3.7 GHz and 90º under load than one that gives me 70º at 2.4 GHz.
My two cents.


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## karmaikel (Jun 3, 2020)

Mats said:


> Going lower than maximum speed isn't always the same as throttling. I was referring to base clock speed. The main point here is that the OP's laptop behaves very differently than the reviewed ones.





Max(IT) said:


> It is not "thermal throttling" , but it is still throttling
> And in some cases during those tests they went even lower than base speed...
> 
> I agree with your point about his notebook's behavior being different from the reviewed one, but are we speaking about the same model ? Maybe HP changed their mind regarding thermal policy in the new models, allowing for higher temperatures. I don't know.
> ...





> Intel Core i7-8565U (15W TDP)0:02 – 0:10 sec0:15 – 0:30 sec10:00 – 15:00 minHP EliteBook 840 G63.11 GHz (B+73%) @ 85°C2.18 GHz (B+21%) @ 69°C2.25 GHz (B+25%) @ 67°C



These are my numbers with Cinebench R15 (score 535)

-first 15 secs: 3.7 GHz @ 98º
-from sec 15 to ¿2 or 3? minutes: 2.5 GHz @ 73º

Slightly higher frecuencies, I don't know if there's a fault on my setup or maybe is doing ok being faster though hotter...

I'll try to work with speedshift 128, is there any option to set up that besides Throttlestop? I like Throttlestop but I shouldn't run external software on that laptop, is there anyway to do the same within Windows?


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## Max(IT) (Jun 3, 2020)

karmaikel said:


> These are my numbers with Cinebench R15 (score 535)
> 
> -first 15 secs: 3.7 GHz @ 98º
> -from sec 15 to ¿2 or 3? minutes: 2.5 GHz @ 73º
> ...


According to those numbers your cpu is just more aggressive in ramping up clock, at least initially. Which is ok in my opinion.
if you want to fine tune its behavior you need ThrottleStop.

you could manage Speed Shift EPP using powercfg /s SCHEME_BALANCED in the command line, but it doesn’t work for every laptop and you don’t really have control on what you are setting.
i don’t know if your notebook has an application to control power states already installed by the manufacturer (usually only on gaming laptops).
btw to use ThrottleStop is absolutely safe.


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## Dante Uchiha (Jun 3, 2020)

- In the windows power profile, limit the maximum CPU state to 80% or less.
- Use a cooler base or at least something to keep the laptop slightly raised so the air goes underneath.


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## Max(IT) (Jun 3, 2020)

Dante Uchiha said:


> - In the windows power profile, limit the maximum CPU state to 80% or less.
> - Use a cooler base or at least something to keep the laptop slightly raised so the air goes underneath.


Not every notebook has access to Windows Power Profile, unfortunately.
On a Dell you can only create a power profile with screen off and suspension time. No access to cpu state.
i don’t know about HP.

EDIT: I just found that on many computer if you LEFT CLICK on the battery icon you can access power settings slide


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## karmaikel (Jun 3, 2020)

Dante Uchiha said:


> - In the windows power profile, limit the maximum CPU state to 80% or less.
> - Use a cooler base or at least something to keep the laptop slightly raised so the air goes underneath.



If I put the maximum cpu to anything below 100% it just disables turbo


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## Mats (Jun 3, 2020)

Max(IT) said:


> What I know is that I would prefer a CPU running at 3.5/3.7 GHz and 90º under load than one that gives me 70º at 2.4 GHz.


There's not much to do about that in a locked down laptop.

Besides, the OP said up to 80° while under 40 % load, that sounded weird to me.

@karmaikel: Does the laptop have an AMD GPU?


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## karmaikel (Jun 3, 2020)

Mats said:


> There's not much to do about that in a locked down laptop.
> 
> Besides, the OP said up to 80° while under 40 % load, that sounded weird to me.
> 
> @karmaikel: Does the laptop have an AMD GPU?


No, it has no gpu

The 80º in a 40% load for example was executing this vbs script

while true
wend

it just goes up very fast, even with no demanding tasks. I guess it is its design. At the icon tray there is a tool where you can select 3 profiles, battery saver, balanced and performance. All my tests are on the balanced profile. With performance it doesn't go below base frequencies at idle, I don't like that.

Thanks for the answers. When I started this thread I thought that 100º was a dangerous temperature, 1º near some kind of 'meltdown', but @Max(IT) said emergency shutdowns are at 125/130C so I'm more or less safe. And the laptop is not even mine so I shouldn't care about it so much but I like things work properly and curious but the thermal configurations (my desktop pc never goes beyond 55C while gaming)

Now I know if one day a buy a laptop I will be very careful about its thermals...


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## Dante Uchiha (Jun 3, 2020)

karmaikel said:


> If I put the maximum cpu to anything below 100% it just disables turbo



The laptop looks a little warmer than in the reviews. If the bios locked to undervolt there are not many options... you can still change the thermal paste or lower the ambient temperature.

Such high temperatures will undoubtedly shorten the life of the laptop.


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## karmaikel (Jun 3, 2020)

Dante Uchiha said:


> The laptop looks a little warmer than in the reviews. If the bios locked to undervolt there are not many options... you can still change the thermal paste or lower the ambient temperature.
> 
> Such high temperatures will undoubtedly shorten the life of the laptop.


Actually afaik there's no review with my cpu so not sure if it is warmer than it should


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## Mats (Jun 3, 2020)

Dante Uchiha said:


> Such high temperatures will undoubtedly shorten the life of the laptop.


No, not if it only stays there for a limited time like described. Those CPU's designed for high temps.


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## karmaikel (Jun 3, 2020)

Mats said:


> No, not if it only stays there for a limited time like described. Those CPU's designed for high temps.



How long that limited time should be? 10-15 secs max for example?


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## repman244 (Jun 3, 2020)

IMO this is normal, you could however try and replace the TIM, but since it's a business laptop that's up to you to decide.
You can also try and set maximum processor state (in windows power options) to 99% which disables turbo and try running like that just to see if there is any drastic change in temps.


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## Mats (Jun 3, 2020)

karmaikel said:


> Actually afaik there's no review with my cpu so not sure if it is warmer than it should


The first review I linked to is the same Whiskey Lake CPU as yours, but with higher clock speeds.



karmaikel said:


> How long that limited time should be? 10-15 secs max for example?


Yeah I guess so, just like the review described.


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## karmaikel (Jun 3, 2020)

Mats said:


> The first review I linked to is the same Whiskey Lake CPU as yours, but with higher clock speeds.



Isn't it a Intel Core i7-8565U? i7... mine is i5, same number of cores and threads, don't know why one is i7 and the other i5 in the same generation



repman244 said:


> IMO this is normal, you could however try and replace the TIM, but since it's a business laptop that's up to you to decide.
> You can also try and set maximum processor state (in windows power options) to 99% which disables turbo and try running like that just to see if there is any drastic change in temps.


Yes there is a drastic change in temps but also in performance


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## Mats (Jun 3, 2020)

karmaikel said:


> Isn't it a Intel Core i7-8565U? i7... mine is i5, same number of cores and threads, don't know why one is i7 and the other i5 in the same generation


In this situation the difference is clock speed and cache size, which is common for -U series. Hotter -H and -HK models are a whole different thing.









						Intel product specifications
					

Intel® product specifications, features and compatibility quick reference guide and code name decoder. Compare products including processors, desktop boards, server products and networking products.




					ark.intel.com


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## Max(IT) (Jun 3, 2020)

karmaikel said:


> No, it has no gpu
> 
> The 80º in a 40% load for example was executing this vbs script
> 
> ...


Well you really cant  compare a notebook to a desktop. The cooling system is much bigger and the airflow is different.

Unfortunately you cant say anything about the thermals of a laptop until you try it. I read some review with big differences in numbers.



Dante Uchiha said:


> Such high temperatures will undoubtedly shorten the life of the laptop.


Yes... from 10 to 9 years... 

Nope, those temperatures are not going to reduce anything.



karmaikel said:


> How long that limited time should be? 10-15 secs max for example?


Hours, not seconds.


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## Valantar (Jun 3, 2020)

Isn't this just how laptops are designed these days? Ignoring core temperature and letting the chip bounce off TjMax, effectively self-regulating unless device skin temperatures go too high or power targets are exceeded? That's the only way to achieve the golden combination of a thin device with high performance and (relatively) low noise, after all.

Oh, btw, those of you saying devices are throttling because they are sustaining clocks far below boost? Please stop. By definition, modern CPUs are not throttling unless they go below base clock. Boost is never intended to be seen as a sustainable speed, and are typically given dramatically increased temporary power limits to achieve those speeds. I can agree that it's a slightly shady marketing tack (especially as base clocks are rarely marketed), but it is also a well established industry standard practice. Also, reality check: More than 4GHz across four cores at 15W? Are you insane? Even the more efficient Zen 2 on the more efficient TSMC 7nm process needs more than 3W per core at around 3.3-3.4GHz in a well-binned chip. 4GHz requires a lot more than that. Base clock is the rated sustainable clock speed when constrained by TDP or long term power limits, and while it is possible there is headroom for some sustained boost within TDP, it can never be expected. If you are reading a U-series (or even H-series) CPU spec sheet and you think the boost clock can be sustained beyond short bursts, you are deluding yourself.

I would say this laptop is likely working as intended by the manufacturer. It definitely isn't ideal, but it won't hurt the chip (though long term PCB damage or other thermal wear is more likely, many years down the line). The best you'll likely be able to do is tweak it so that it doesn't boost as high for as long. Ideally you'd be able to boost fan speeds, though that is exceedingly rare. Disabling Turbo Boost is a brute-force solution that will likely help, but at the cost of a very noticeable amount of performance.


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## AsRock (Jun 3, 2020)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Unfortunately thats just how the cookie crumbles... HP have taken a page of out Apples book and put too powerful of a CPU inside a chassis that doesnt have good airflow or cooling to deal with satisfactory  level.
> 
> I compared your 840 G6 with the newer macbook air (2020) running a slightly weaker CPU (i5-1030NG7) and that CPU still throttled in the review. I wouldnt expect your laptop to be any different. They are both the thin ultra portable style of laptop.
> 
> ...



The paste i replaced of our Dell machine it actualy had evaporated,  iknow it had some on at some point as i had a repair guy out to iit and i was not to happy with how much that was put on it.  Few years later i took a look in side and it all had pretty much gone lol.


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## Valantar (Jun 3, 2020)

AsRock said:


> The paste i replaced of our Dell machine it actualy had evaporated,  iknow it had some on at some point as i had a repair guy out to iit and i was not to happy with how much that was put on it.  Few years later i took a look in side and it all had pretty much gone lol.


What? Thermal paste can't evaporate. The solvents keeping it soft can of course, so that it dries out, but the majority of the paste is made up of solid materials that would not evaporate unless exposed to a kiln or something equally blazing hot (at which point your laptop would of course also evaporate). Are you sure the paste hadn't dried out and crumbled as you disassembled it? Or that the repair guy didn't replace the stock paste with something else?


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## Max(IT) (Jun 3, 2020)

Valantar said:


> Isn't this just how laptops are designed these days? Ignoring core temperature and letting the chip bounce off TjMax, effectively self-regulating unless device skin temperatures go too high or power targets are exceeded? That's the only way to achieve the golden combination of a thin device with high performance and (relatively) low noise, after all.
> 
> Oh, btw, those of you saying devices are throttling because they are sustaining clocks far below boost? Please stop. By definition, modern CPUs are not throttling unless they go below base clock. Boost is never intended to be seen as a sustainable speed, and are typically given dramatically increased temporary power limits to achieve those speeds. I can agree that it's a slightly shady marketing tack (especially as base clocks are rarely marketed), but it is also a well established industry standard practice. Also, reality check: More than 4GHz across four cores at 15W? Are you insane? Even the more efficient Zen 2 on the more efficient TSMC 7nm process needs more than 3W per core at around 3.3-3.4GHz in a well-binned chip. 4GHz requires a lot more than that. Base clock is the rated sustainable clock speed when constrained by TDP or long term power limits, and while it is possible there is headroom for some sustained boost within TDP, it can never be expected. If you are reading a U-series (or even H-series) CPU spec sheet and you think the boost clock can be sustained beyond short bursts, you are deluding yourself.
> 
> I would say this laptop is likely working as intended by the manufacturer. It definitely isn't ideal, but it won't hurt the chip (though long term PCB damage or other thermal wear is more likely, many years down the line). The best you'll likely be able to do is tweak it so that it doesn't boost as high for as long. Ideally you'd be able to boost fan speeds, though that is exceedingly rare. Disabling Turbo Boost is a brute-force solution that will likely help, but at the cost of a very noticeable amount of performance.


Correct.
My CPU (a more powerful i7-9750H) needs about 35W to stay all cores at 4 GHz, but sometimes it throttles back to 3.7 GHz. And there are spikes at 50W or above.


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## AsRock (Jun 3, 2020)

Ok,  to put it PC for you.  about 10% of the cpu was still covered and all the paste from the whole tube he used had pretty much gone.  Tell it  shocking as i was expecting a big ol clean up for it which is partly why i left it  a extra year.

If crumbled to dust i could not tell you but what was left was 100% useless.


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## Mats (Jun 3, 2020)

Valantar said:


> Isn't this just how laptops are designed these days? Ignoring core temperature and letting the chip bounce off TjMax, effectively self-regulating unless device skin temperatures go too high or power targets are exceeded?


*Well except that half of the thread is about how this is unlikely for this model*. Elitebooks are about stability and reliability IMO, not most performance at any cost. I haven't seen any reviews of those that supports what you suggest.



Valantar said:


> Oh, btw, those of you saying devices are throttling because they are sustaining clocks far below boost? Please stop. By definition, modern CPUs are not throttling unless they go below base clock. Boost is never intended to be seen as a sustainable speed, and are typically given dramatically increased temporary power limits to achieve those speeds.


Thank you.


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## Dante Uchiha (Jun 3, 2020)

Max(IT) said:


> Well you really cant  compare a notebook to a desktop. The cooling system is much bigger and the airflow is different.
> 
> Unfortunately you cant say anything about the thermals of a laptop until you try it. I read some review with big differences in numbers.
> 
> ...



Nop. High temperatures and voltages accelerate the degradation of silicon, in addition to PCB and capacitors near the CPU. I've never seen a laptop that undergoes constant overheating last long. I had a macbook (core2duo) and an HP Elitebook(i7), I saw both die prematurely with just over a year.


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## Mats (Jun 4, 2020)

Dante Uchiha said:


> I've never seen a laptop that undergoes *constant *overheating last long.


We're not talking about constant overheating here..


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## Valantar (Jun 4, 2020)

Mats said:


> *Well except that half of the thread is about how this is unlikely for this model*. Elitebooks are about stability and reliability IMO, not most performance at any cost. I haven't seen any reviews of those that supports what you suggest.


That's the thing though: these CPUs can handle this just fine. There is no reason for it to be unstable just because it is hitting TjMax and dropping to a lower boost level - 100C is entirely within the capabilities of a chip like that. And as I said this is not about getting the most performance at any cost, but rather about making a system that is simultaneously fast, slim and relatively quiet. It is a rather basic design principle of high end ultrabook-type laptops: they are typically too thin to cool their CPUs to low temperatures without running the fans very high, so something has to give. And seeing how the chips are running at safe voltages that can't be changed, low currents and moderate clock speeds, the solution becomes to let them run hot - with the addition of device skin temperature sensors to try to avoid this becoming uncomfortable.


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## Max(IT) (Jun 4, 2020)

Dante Uchiha said:


> Nop. High temperatures and voltages accelerate the degradation of silicon, in addition to PCB and capacitors near the CPU. I've never seen a laptop that undergoes constant overheating last long. I had a macbook (core2duo) and an HP Elitebook(i7), I saw both die prematurely with just over a year.


that's just anecdotal evidence.
I know of many Macbook working for 10+ years without any issue at all.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jun 4, 2020)

Max(IT) said:


> I know of many Macbook working for 10+ years without any issue at all.



This... is where i know youre lying  Macbooks working for 10+ years?? Apple would like to know what sort of crack you've been smoking and where they can find these macbook owners so they can charge them for repairs and new macbooks they didnt buy as replacement for faulty (or just plain old) ones.

Apple would be out of business if their products lasted 10+ years. Nobody would be buying their stuff


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## Max(IT) (Jun 4, 2020)

FreedomEclipse said:


> This... is where i know youre lying  Macbooks working for 10+ years?? Apple would like to know what sort of crack you've been smoking and where they can find these macbook owners so they can charge them for repairs and new macbooks they didnt buy as replacement for faulty (or just plain old) ones.
> 
> Apple would be out of business if their products lasted 10+ years. Nobody would be buying their stuff


And this is where you just demonstrated you don't know what are you saying.
My old MacBook Pro 2009 is still working in my sister's house, with just an SSD and RAM upgrade over the years.

Said that, you were reported to moderators, because I'm not smoking any crack.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jun 4, 2020)

Max(IT) said:


> And this is where you just demonstrated you don't know what are you saying.







Max(IT) said:


> My old MacBook Pro 2009 is still working in my sister's house, with just an SSD and RAM upgrade over the years.



I hate to break it to you but one person isnt '_many_'


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## Valantar (Jun 4, 2020)

FreedomEclipse said:


> This... is where i know youre lying  Macbooks working for 10+ years?? Apple would like to know what sort of crack you've been smoking and where they can find these macbook owners so they can charge them for repairs and new macbooks they didnt buy as replacement for faulty (or just plain old) ones.
> 
> Apple would be out of business if their products lasted 10+ years. Nobody would be buying their stuff


Late 2000s/early 2010s MacBooks seem to be very reliable given the huge number of them still in use and on the used market. Later, hotter running models might be a different story (particularly with the garbage keyboard), but there is definitely some truth to older MacBooks being very reliable.

Now can we all please at least pretend we're adults here?


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## Assimilator (Jun 4, 2020)

Tjunction for this particular CPU is 100 °C as per the Ark. Nothing to worry about, and nothing you can do to mitigate this with software like Throttlestop either, due to Intel's Plundervolt BIOS updates.

These temperatures are a function of cramming CPUs with ever-higher core counts and ever-higher frequencies, into ever-smaller chassis. If you want a CPU that won't thermal throttle in normal workloads, your only option is a desktop machine with adequate cooling.

You may be able to alleviate some of the throttling with a laptop stand with built-in fans, e.g. https://www.amazon.com/HV-F2056-15-6-17-Laptop-Cooler-Cooling/dp/B00NNMB3KS but that somewhat defeats the portability aspect of a laptop...


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## AsRock (Jun 4, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> Tjunction for this particular CPU is 100 °C as per the Ark. Nothing to worry about, and nothing you can do to mitigate this with software like Throttlestop either, due to Intel's Plundervolt BIOS updates.
> 
> These temperatures are a function of cramming CPUs with ever-higher core counts and ever-higher frequencies, into ever-smaller chassis. If you want a CPU that won't thermal throttle in normal workloads, your only option is a desktop machine with adequate cooling.
> 
> You may be able to alleviate some of the throttling with a laptop stand with built-in fans, e.g. https://www.amazon.com/HV-F2056-15-6-17-Laptop-Cooler-Cooling/dp/B00NNMB3KS but that somewhat defeats the portability aspect of a laptop...



Although i would check were the hot spots are and vents and get one with fans in the same kind of area's.


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## 95Viper (Jun 4, 2020)

Stay on topic.
Remember, that some people do not know if your expressions of speech are serious or not, because of regional differences in colloquialisms.

Thank you and have a nice day.


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## watzupken (Jun 4, 2020)

I think since this is a company laptop, so I certainly won't worry too much about it since its covered by warranty. 

Anyway, I can think of a few reasons for the toasty chip. 1 being the very basic cooling found on most if not all ultra slim laptops. You can find some pictures of the cooler used in this laptop if you Google it. Couple with an ever increasingly power hungry Intel processor, which is a recipe for heat issues and throttling. 

In addition, PC makers will determine the behavior of the CPU when it heats up. Some can throttle + increase fan speed drastically when it hits 80+ degs, while some would try to stretch it by allowing a higher heat threshold. Most reviews you see out there are tested in a low to mid 20s deg kind of room temp that may kind of skew the temperature results.


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## Max(IT) (Jun 4, 2020)

AsRock said:


> Although i would check were the hot spots are and vents and get one with fans in the same kind of area's.


I'm using the Thermaltake Massive 20, which have a single big fan.
It is one of the few big enough to cool a 17" laptop (a lot are advertised as suitable from 13 to 17" but that's plain false as the notebook is bigger than the pad itself).


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## karmaikel (Jun 5, 2020)

HP EliteBook x360 830 G6 Laptop Review: HP Convertible impresses in almost every way
					

Notebookcheck reviews the HP EliteBook x360 830 G6. This HP laptop targets business users & other productive uses cases. The special feature of this HP EliteBook 830 G6 is its extremely bright SureView screen.




					www.notebookcheck.net
				






> In terms of the outer temperatures, the HP EliteBook x360 830 G6 is *exemplary*. The highest temperature we measured was 43.3 degrees Celsius (~110 degrees Fahrenheit), which is warm but in no way problematic. The behavior in stress tests with Prime95 and FurMark is pretty tame as well: *The CPU can consume 50 W for 30 seconds, reaching clock rates of 4.1 GHz and CPU temperatures of 97 degrees Celsius* (~207 degrees Fahrenheit). Soon, the power consumption is limited to 15 W and then 13 W. At the end of the stress test, the CPU clock rates sit at 800 MHz. In everyday use, this TPD throttling should be no problem.



it Is a different cpu but a similar behaviour, almost 50W for some seconds, reaching 4.1GHz and 97C and then power reduced to 15W... And also their room temperature is 5C below mine...

So my temperatures seem ok, wait, not only ok, they are "*exemplary*"


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## Valantar (Jun 5, 2020)

karmaikel said:


> HP EliteBook x360 830 G6 Laptop Review: HP Convertible impresses in almost every way
> 
> 
> Notebookcheck reviews the HP EliteBook x360 830 G6. This HP laptop targets business users & other productive uses cases. The special feature of this HP EliteBook 830 G6 is its extremely bright SureView screen.
> ...


Illustrates my previous point exactly: device makers these days generally design for device skin temperatures and not CPU temperatures. As long as it doesn't feel hot for the user and doesn't throttle below base, it's doing what it is supposed to. The chip protects itself by lowering clocks when it hits TjMax.


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## Max(IT) (Jun 5, 2020)

karmaikel said:


> HP EliteBook x360 830 G6 Laptop Review: HP Convertible impresses in almost every way
> 
> 
> Notebookcheck reviews the HP EliteBook x360 830 G6. This HP laptop targets business users & other productive uses cases. The special feature of this HP EliteBook 830 G6 is its extremely bright SureView screen.
> ...


That's normal behavior for a notebook: PL2 (50W in this case) for 28 seconds, and then PL1 (usually the TDP, 15W in this case).
The only "bad thing" is TDP further reduced to 13 W by the manufacturer.


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## Fizban (Jun 6, 2020)

Valantar said:


> Oh, btw, those of you saying devices are throttling because they are sustaining clocks far below boost? Please stop. By definition, modern CPUs are not throttling unless they go below base clock.



That sounds like a really dumb definition to use. Virtually no laptop I am aware of runs below base clock. My 9750H has a listed all-core-turbo of 4.0 GHz. If it is running at 3.6 GHz to avoid reaching TjMax, I'd definitely consider that to be throttling.
U chips are a bit different though since their wattage doesn't realistically allow them to run at their all-core turbo for long regardless of temps.

Also, "definition" as per who? Definitions aren't defined by one common source.



FreedomEclipse said:


> This... is where i know youre lying  Macbooks working for 10+ years?? Apple would like to know what sort of crack you've been smoking and where they can find these macbook owners so they can charge them for repairs and new macbooks they didnt buy as replacement for faulty (or just plain old) ones.
> 
> Apple would be out of business if their products lasted 10+ years. Nobody would be buying their stuff



This is nonsense. You don't buy a new computer because your old one died. You buy it because your old one no longer meets your demands or expectations.

I own an ASUS ROG with a i7-740QM, an a Radeon HD 5870M. It still works. I do not use it. Why? What was a bleeding edge machine in 2009 no longer cuts it for my current usage.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jun 6, 2020)

Fizban said:


> This is nonsense. You don't buy a new computer because your old one died. You buy it because your old one no longer meets your demands or expectations.



OK. well i guess the saying _"if it aint broke, dont fix it" _is one that is lost on you. Even more nonsensical is someone who thinks that everyone thinks the way they do and speaks for everyone. But thats neither here nor there.


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## Fizban (Jun 6, 2020)

FreedomEclipse said:


> OK. well i guess the saying _"if it aint broke, dont fix it" _is one that is lost on you. Even more nonsensical is someone who thinks that everyone thinks the way they do and speaks for everyone. But thats neither here nor there.



What I said IS true for everyone.

I could give you a working Commodore 64. It's not broke. It still wouldn't fulfill your needs. How quickly machines become obsolete varies person to person, but everyone upgrades when their computer no longer functions as required.

A computer that doesn't do what you need it to "is broke" for the intent of your statement.


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## Valantar (Jun 6, 2020)

Fizban said:


> That sounds like a really dumb definition to use. Virtually no laptop I am aware of runs below base clock. My 9750H has a listed all-core-turbo of 4.0 GHz. If it is running at 3.6 GHz to avoid reaching TjMax, I'd definitely consider that to be throttling.
> U chips are a bit different though since their wattage doesn't realistically allow them to run at their all-core turbo for long regardless of temps.
> 
> Also, "definition" as per who? Definitions aren't defined by one common source.


Uhm, yes they are. Intel defines the specifications of their own chips, so it is up to them to define what is throttling and not. Your opinion on this does not matter. If you consider running lower than all-core turbo to be throttling, that's too bad - for some reason you have expectations that don't match with reality. I would suggest adjusting them to match with reality to avoid confusion and possible annoyance. Throttling on any modern Intel chip is by definition running below base clock as base clock is the clock speed that is guaranteed to be maintainable when power limited within TDP. Anything above base is boost, and boost is _never_ guaranteed to be maintainable. Boost is by definition opportunistic, i.e. it works if power, thermals etc. allows. As I said above, you are welcome to think this is shady or a bad way of doing things, but that doesn't change reality. You can also say you want your chip to run at all-core boost constantly, but you can't expect all laptops to do so (not even desktops, frankly) as that is not how the parts in them are specified or designed. While they are theoretically capable of doing so it would require increasing boost power time windows and otherwise tweaking settings, alongside overbuilt cooling to match. In other words they would be running outside of spec - particularly for power, as no current or recent high end Intel chip cam maintain its all-core boost without consuming significantly more power than TDP. It is rather common for even gaming laptops to do this, but you can't expect it in all cases.


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## Fizban (Jun 6, 2020)

Valantar said:


> Uhm, yes they are. Intel defines the specifications of their own chips, so it is up to them to define what is throttling and not.



No. That's not remotely how definitions work. Throttling is not a word created by Intel. They do not get to define how people use it, especially since it predates the existence of their corporation by centuries.

Colloquial usage matters far more than what Intel decides a term means.

Throttling in colloquial usage very much means that a chip is running slower than it would otherwise be capable of if temperatures were lower. ie. A U chip running below all-core turbo due to wattage limitations isn't throttling, it is achieving its maximum performance given its current wattage. A H chip reducing its speed to avoid blasting through TJMax is throttling in the eyes of basically anyone except Intel. Alas, Intel doesn't get to change the meaning of words as part of a marketing ploy.

You argument is akin to me claiming that Ford changed the word "failure" to describe an engine which does not start, and that as such if your ford car starts, and drives at a top speed of 5 mph and stalls every 100 meters that it isn't technically a failure.

Companies don't hold that kind of power.

Want to know the definition of throttling? Look it up in a dictionary.



> 2.
> control (an engine or vehicle) with a throttle.
> 
> reduce the power of an engine or vehicle by use of the throttle.



If my 9750H runs at 3.2 GHz due to heat, it is having its power reduced by use of a throttle.

Sorry to break it to you, but being a shill for Intel doesn't make everyone else wrong.


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## 95Viper (Jun 6, 2020)

Thread arguing limit reached.
There is no more progress on the topic being made.
Thread closed.
If you wish it open... take it up with a Super Moderator.

Thank You and Have a Good Day.


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