# Should I buy an expensive headset?



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 17, 2014)

Howdy lads,

I'm looking into buying myself a nice expensive pair of headphones but I'm not entirely sure if that's a good idea or worth bothering!

I would use the headset for gaming and music. But it's really for gaming and online play.

I'm considering buying the Razer Tiamat 7.1 headset off ebay for 210 euro.
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Razer-Tiamat...0735947182?pt=UK_Headsets&hash=item58a5a181ae

Seems good and a true 7.1 headset. But would it be worth buying this??

I'm also looking at the Beyerdynamic MMX 300 for nearly double the price of the Razer :O
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/715565-Beyer...ther_Computing_Networking&hash=item5d41dfafa0

Now would that be worth bothering with???

Would I need an External sound card to power these instead of my laptop?

Any advice would be welcome!


----------



## Vario (Jul 17, 2014)

Get some audiophile 2 channel headphones and a separate mic.


----------



## Guitar (Jul 17, 2014)

I have a Logitech G930, and I love it besides the weight. However, I find the 7.1 to be mainly a gimmick and I do not use it. The headset sounds great otherwise, and it really does make a difference in gaming for me when using it. The price was worth it to me and I've gotten good use out of it and the wireless is nice. The mic sounds good as well, only real problem is the software sucks IMO and interferes with Razer software which is a big old PITA.

I hate a clip on/boom mic. I don't want that crap on my desk or person.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008O515CK/?tag=tec06d-20


----------



## Capitan Harlock (Jul 17, 2014)

the beyer are audiophile and another one is the headset from audio technica but i think that a headphone like the dt 770 80ohm or the dt 990 or every headphone and the modmic http://www.modmic.com/ are a good combination .
You can buy even a pair of v moda m100 or m80 + the cord with the boom mic and you have a headset.


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 17, 2014)

I'm not sure about getting a 2 channel headset though, I really enjoy surround sound and while gaming I find it so important to be able to hear things behind me! 2 channel simply doesn't give me the emersion that I crave.

I also have the Logitech G930 7.1 headset and creative Rage3D 7.1 headset and the logitech is certainly better than the Creative headset. Decend virtual surround that works compared to the creative one, pretty bad I must say! but is better for music and movies.

I have to say though, I love sennheiser headsets " currently own 3 of them " But I never spent a lot of money for them... perhaps I should buy a pricey one. I will look into that Sennheiser 363D.
Is this the same one??
http://www.komplett.ie/product/zkb-...r-pc-363d-met-assassins-creed-iv/details.aspx

would that actually sound better than the Razer headset that actually has 10 speakers instead of virtual surround??

Those Beyerdynamic headsets seem very good, good technical specs and actually a good price too. I will look into them more and consider them! They look very comfortable too.
Would a 250ohm be a bad idea?? would my laptop be able to power it?


----------



## Kursah (Jul 17, 2014)

7.1 headsets use software emulation...the ones that use speakers SUCK. I know I owned several...and I thought they were good at the time...until I listened to a pair of cheap JVC HARX700's that blew them away in stereo and 5.1 emulation via X-Fi CMMS-3D. I prefer good stereo over any emulation now. I went through several pairs of Turtle Beach HPA2's back in the day with "true" 5.1 speakers...and honestly, once you understand acoustics and how none of those speakers have any real room to breath or expand their audio waves, you end up with a mess that never really sounds good or great. Take that money, get a good pair of heapdhones, an amp if needed, use software emulation like Dolby or Creative or whatever if you must have surround.

To each their own, but you might be surprised if you can get into a good pair of larger closed cans or even better, some open cans. My  HE-400's have been pretty damn amazing for gaming, but then so were my Denon D2000's (haven't been made in years).


----------



## Capitan Harlock (Jul 17, 2014)

like kursah said if you buy a very good pair of headphone you can have a very good experience if the headphone have a good soundstage so you hear like you are in the middle of the situation without software and simulation .
I have a pair of corsair vengeance 1500 v2 they are good for comfort and have a good mic but about sound quality and sound stage and immersion my Superlux hd668b and fiio e10 xd are another world .


----------



## Vario (Jul 17, 2014)

I like these
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000065BPB/?tag=tec06d-20
(Sennheiser HD 280 Pro)

I had a set of Sennheiser HD 570s for a couple years but actually preferred a friends 280 Pros.

I think Closed Ear is the way to go.  Better sound details.


----------



## Kursah (Jul 17, 2014)

I thought the same way Vario until I heard a good pair of open headphones. What you think sounds good might sound crappy to someone else.

I prefer closed-back for two reasons: Bass Impact/Presence and isolation.

My HE-400's have great bass, but lack the impact my D2000's have...yet they are so open it's like being at a concert...the sounds have space to seperate, expand, sound more natural. Now when I wear my closed phones things sound clausterphobic and fake. But that's to my ears with my equipment. There are soooooo many variables to this, it's not necessarily clean cut for everyone, it takes some experiementing. As Head-Fi would say, sorry about your wallet.


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 17, 2014)

Okay it's quite obvious that I'll buy a good pair of stereo cans over the simulated headsets out there!
Thing is.. can I just download creatives control panel to allow CMMS-3D? or a Dolby one with any headset I get?

I must ask some questions about the Hifiman HE 400 and the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro.

Firstly, the Hifiman frequency is rated at 20-35000 hz compared to Beyerdynamics 5-35000hz. That seems pretty obvious that they will provide richer bass?? am I correct??

Also the Hifiman is 35ohm compared to 250ohm, Would that mean that it'll provide a better audio experience at the cost of drawing more power and requiring an external sound card or amp to take advantage of it?

I guess it's not as simple as that as the price for the Hifiman is twice as expensive compared to the Beyerdynamics! 

What about the Sennheiser 363D? Can that headset compare to these two? It would cost me 250 euro to buy it though so the price tag isn't very attractive.. but it does have its own sound card via USB, but can't use it for the PS4 or MP3 player or my phone!

ugh!! The pleasures of so much choice ^^


----------



## fusionblu (Jul 17, 2014)

Of the two headsets you mentioned from the start it is better to go with the Beyerdynamic MMX 300 Gaming Headset than the other as long term benefit is almost certainly better in sound quality, build and the ergonomics design which would be how well the headset would be seated on your head.

When I brought my Plantronics Gamecom Commander headset the other choice was the Beyerdynamic MMX 300, but I preferred the Plantronics design overall instead and sound specifications were very similar as expected of closely priced headsets.
I would not say the one I went with was better since many others had many negatives to say, especially those with sensitive ears which are no good for breaking in leather , but in relation to the design of the Beyerdynamic MMX 300 should be a bit better as its design (unlike my own) shouldn't have issues with those with sensitive ears given the use of materials.

As others have said if you are looking to listen to music you need another headset as this one is intended for gaming as are many (if not all) 7.1 headsets.

There are many audiophile headsets, but I really don't know much about them as I am more focused on gaming than music and can sacrifice sound quality when listening to music on my headset.

I do, however, have a nice pair of Gale Speakers and a Cambridge Amplifier when really listening to music (not looking to be specific with model of speakers or amplifier as this is a headset discussion).


----------



## AsRock (Jul 18, 2014)

Vario said:


> Get some audiophile 2 channel headphones and a separate mic.



+!, think the same here, Razer suck anyways. I will go and recommend Logitech's webcam C920 as it has realy nice mic on it that you can place away from you on top of your monitor\tv a few feet away.

 just get that rig setup with your current Home theater


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 18, 2014)

I am running the new Kingston Cloud Pro headset which is a Qpad QH 90 rebrand and it is great. Destroys my Razer headset I had in sound quality and MIC. I like that I can disconnect the MIC and use it as a normal headset whenever I want. Got it for $99 on launch day.


----------



## Capitan Harlock (Jul 18, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> I am running the new Kingston Cloud Pro headset which is a Qpad QH 90 rebrand and it is great. Destroys my Razer headset I had in sound quality and MIC. I like that I can disconnect the MIC and use it as a normal headset whenever I want. Got it for $99 on launch day.


that headset is a good one xd same design as the beyer and sound very good but is not neutral so depends on what you like PXzyan but if something broke you can change it in evey peaces xd.
The beyerd dt990 with a good amp/dac like my fiio e10 or nuforce udac 2 or 3 dont cost too much and can run 250ohm headphone .
If you want to spend low money you can buy the superlux that now have versions with mic or the standard without mic but change earpads xd.


----------



## m4gicfour (Jul 18, 2014)

For when you decide on a good pair of cans...

http://www.modmic.com/


----------



## remixedcat (Jul 18, 2014)

@BumbleBee would buzz in here saying:

"Don't buy a gaming headset!"


----------



## Jetster (Jul 18, 2014)




----------



## remixedcat (Jul 18, 2014)

in the ghetoooooo!!!


----------



## AhokZYashA (Jul 18, 2014)

i mainly use my HD600s for gaming, 
and because the open nature and wide soundstage of the headphone, it has no problem with reproducing a good surround effect.

or if your budget is a bit tight, a Sennheiser HD558/598 is also pretty got for gaming

for headphones, specs are not the one that you look for, 20-35000 vs 5-50000 is not an issue and should not become the main point in deciding a pair of headphones

the one that you should look is the comfort and the sound signature of the headphones itself, 
is it suited for your games, is it comfortable, or is it has a good built quality, etc.


----------



## Capitan Harlock (Jul 18, 2014)

yes but if you dont have a good frequency response in some games if the bass is laking because the headphone dont go so down i think is good to look at that too but depends on the personal preference too.
I like a neutral sound signature but if i want some base the 3db switch on the fiio e10 are ok for me xd.


----------



## AhokZYashA (Jul 18, 2014)

well, human can only listen from 20-20000Hz, 
so frequencies below that are completely irrelevant, 

lacking in bass frequency is not mainly because of frequency response,
the main cause of lacking bass is the amplitude of that certain frequency (in this case is bass which is 20-200Hz)


----------



## AsRock (Jul 18, 2014)

AhokZYashA said:


> well, human can only listen from 20-20000Hz,
> so frequencies below that are completely irrelevant,
> 
> lacking in bass frequency is not mainly because of frequency response,
> the main cause of lacking bass is the amplitude of that certain frequency (in this case is bass which is 20-200Hz)



You're so incorrect and their is more to sound than hearing, speakers from the 80-90s could do a hell load more than what common speaker could do. And there is more than one reason why speakers got smaller which personally think they suck for the full ultimate experience


----------



## AhokZYashA (Jul 18, 2014)

gimme one example then which thing that 80-90s speaker can do that speakers nowadays cant do?

imaging?
soundstage?
instrument separation?
bass impact?

i listened to the Adam F5 bookshelf speakers which is quite small, and i can have the experience that the song can give to me.

and im pretty sure that the experience youre talking about is just the bass impact which can be remedied with a normal boxed 8" subwoofer.


----------



## AsRock (Jul 18, 2014)

TONNOY Murcury's the ones which made around 81-83, which which would do all that and then some as there is nothing like controlled base than moves around the room.  There is only so much a smaller speaker can do.

 Which is part of my point you did not need a sub back in the day.


----------



## Jetster (Jul 18, 2014)

I don't think quality has gone down over the years.  Its just that prices have gone up

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/buyers_guides/17/


----------



## AsRock (Jul 18, 2014)

Jetster said:


> I don't think quality has gone down over the years.  Its just that prices have gone up
> 
> http://www.theabsolutesound.com/buyers_guides/17/



Yes, that's for sure. But even some of those high priced speakers are not all that either.  Only ones i would really trust if i were to get expensive speakers would have to be Totem.

Although i am not much for these smaller speakers, wish they stop the BS and bring back the good ol 8 woofer and not this small crap that requires more speakers + sub.

As this is not what the OP wanted to talk about this be my last post on this subject.


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 18, 2014)

Thanks for the advice lads! Tiz good to see a good auld battle about speaker quality and the likes 

Perhaps I will consider the Beyerdynamic MMX 300 headset but that's so expensive! I'd be spending 360 euro on that and then I'd have to buy an external sound card or amp to power them!
I really like the Beyerdynamic 770pro and 990pro specs and also the price tag is much more believable ^^

Would the MMX 300 sound that much better than the 770 and 990???

Don't worry AsRock, I will get an external sound card and have my 5.1 setup in a month or so  Can't be leaving that laying around :L

While I'm on the subject of external sound cards, would the Asus Xonar U7 do the job?
http://www.dabs.ie/products/asus-xo...eadphone-amplifier-8R5Y.html?q=asus u7&src=16

Would I be able to use them on my PS4 also? and Phone?! Tablet?


----------



## Cybrnook2002 (Jul 18, 2014)

Not reading through ALL the thread, I spotted a few key things you were talking about you wanted. Sounds like you want a "Open Back" headphone if you want to hear what is going on around you while also listening to music or gaming. Also, open back will allow your ears to breath over a longer duration of time. That is always a big debate, you will always have closed back fanatics that swear their ears don't sweat, but then again, some people also don't get sweaty palms and some do.....

For my headphones I am a sennheiser fan boy, I think they make great products for decent prices. For strictly audiophile grade listening without working in a studio 24-7, I use a set of Sennheiser HD 280 Pro's (they were recommended by another member on your first page as well) http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000065BPB/?tag=tec06d-20

And for gaming I use the Sennheiser PC 360 headset (Picked mine up for about $150 off amazon a few months back) http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003DA4D2U/?tag=tec06d-20

Don't buy a 5.1 or 7.1 headset, just think of the drivers, you will have a bunch of small speakers in there that get the job done. Might be fun for gaming, but that will be it. (I am sure there will be other comments on this as well, but my rule is THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT, bigger speaker bigger sound)

There are tons of virtual surround software packages out there. I think Razer is giving theirs away for free at the moment. Creative and Asus also offer this with their sound cards and some built in MB sound cards as well.

Naturally none of this matters if you dont have an OP-AMP to drive these. Plugging any high grade headphone into your standard realtek onboard will suck. You need juice at higher impedance to get anything worthwhile in your ears.

I also see your asking about external amps, the Astro is really popular for a good mix of devices, works with game consoles too

http://www.astrogaming.com/mixamp™-pro/3AM99-HBU9X-975.html


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 18, 2014)

Yeah I am leaning towards the open back headsets after reading many reviews with many different headsets, they all say open back cans for gaming for better immersion and sound stage but usually lack in deeper bass. Not a problem for me as I will use them usually only for gaming and some music listening.

I'm currently seriously considering the Sennheiser 363d and the Beyerdynamic DT-990 Pro headsets. They both have great reviews and at the moment I can't make up my mind on what to get. 
I will look at more reviews to get a better picture of each cans.

On ebay I can get the DT-990 for 150 bucks and the 363d for 200 bucks.
The sennheiser is easier to drive and has a built in mic that's very good.
But the DT-990 doesn't have a mic and harder to drive which would require me to but an external AMP to power them properly which will cost me more in the long run!


----------



## Cybrnook2002 (Jul 18, 2014)

Keep in mind, the 363D's are nice. _(EDITED OUT)_ The PC 360's I recommended are the originals that put sennheiser in the gaming spot light.

I had the same debate you did, 363D vs 360, so I ordered BOTH and tried them out  . Ultimately I chose the 360's as the felt surround was much more comfortable and forming to me than the 363D (could not get it to seal) The 363D has a lower impedance than the 360's so they will require less power push them correctly.

All in what you want and what you want to invest.

EDIT: Actually I ordered the 350SE and the 360's. so my info is slightly skewed. However it gives you the important pieces to look for. In looking at the 363D's, they seem to be a very nice set. But do you really need the pay for the amplifier they come with if you are going to externally amp anyways?

http://en-us.sennheiser.com/gaming-headset-pc-363d


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 18, 2014)

I know what ya mean. I suppose I don't need the 363d as I will get a better AMP than that.

But should I be buying the Asus Xonar U7 sound card or should I be buying a better AMP? I don't want to have to spend another 100+ euro on an AMP!

At the moment though, I am leaning towards the Beyerdynamic DT-990 Pro! and they will certainly need a good AMP as they are 250 ohm.


----------



## Cybrnook2002 (Jul 18, 2014)

I sent this in my first post:

I also see your asking about external amps, the Astro is really popular for a good mix of devices, works with game consoles too

http://www.astrogaming.com/mixamp™-pro/3AM99-HBU9X-975.html


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 18, 2014)

AH yes you did! I did check it out and some how forgot about it..
That thing looks very good and is a decent price too, and I like that it works for consoles so that's certainly a plus!

I will check out some reviews for it and see how it fairs!
Do you know much about the Asus Xonar U7??


----------



## Cybrnook2002 (Jul 18, 2014)

Not first hand, but Asus is typically a vendor I trust. I have used the Astro and had no issues with it at all, just ended up not using it as much as I thought I would. I have used many Asus expansion sound cards PCI and PCI-e and they have always been solid.


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 18, 2014)

Yeah I trust Asus too which is why I'm very interested in buying one of their amps. That Astro Pro you linked, does it support 5.1 home theatre setups? I have an analog surround sound system that I would also want to connect to it if possible?

Also it says 32ohm per channel, does that mean it wouldn't be able to power a 250ohm headset? 

Frequency range is 20-20,000hz. Does this also mean that if I got a headset with 5-35,000 frequency range, would that mean it wouldn't be able to reach the headsets full potential?
Or am I completely wrong and should shush up?


----------



## cheesy999 (Jul 18, 2014)

Irish_PXzyan said:


> Yeah I trust Asus too which is why I'm very interested in buying one of their amps. That Astro Pro you linked, does it support 5.1 home theatre setups? I have an analog surround sound system that I would also want to connect to it if possible?
> 
> Also it says 32ohm per channel, does that mean it wouldn't be able to power a 250ohm headset?
> 
> ...



even ignoring that fact that most recorded music video and games you listen to will not have sounds outside of 20-20000hz, depending on your hearing capacity you will most likely be deaf to things outside 20-20000hz or at the very least you will be very insensitive to them.

Sounds on the extreme high and low ends on the spectrum on the vast majority of audio systems suffer from significant attenuation so after we take into fact the idea that they will likely be reproduced quite quietly add on the fact you will be completely or mostly deaf to them, and you will not miss anything

edit: Cybernook raises a very good point with the idea that most sounds in the high ranges are incredibly annoying anyway to those who can hear them


----------



## Cybrnook2002 (Jul 18, 2014)

So, they would go perfectly with the 363D's as those are also 32 ohm headphones (what its really made for). A higher impedance headphone would "work" but not as intended. Frequency on the high range is not really a factor as human hearing is rated at 20 - 20000hz, so the astro is spot on for the majority. Sure, some people have more sensitive hearing, but honestly I enjoy not being able to hear dog whistles ;-)  As for the low end, 5 - 20 hz is nonsense for a headphone anyways as you need some pretty massive sub-woofers rated that low to really hear and feel it. Have you ever seen/heard a 5 hz bass line? It's basically a woofer breathing, so without a sealed enclosure and some real displacement, you wont hear it anyways.


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 18, 2014)

Thanks for clearing that up Cheesy. I'll ignore those frequency ranges while I search for an AMP ^^

Yeah I was thinking that, the Sennheiser would be better suited for that amp it seems. 
What sort of difference does 250ohm offer compared to 32ohm? is the difference worth bothering with or should I just stick to 32ohm?


----------



## Cybrnook2002 (Jul 18, 2014)

Compatibility and power rating/clarity. For gaming and music and such, a lower impedance headphone should be more than fine for you. If you start getting into professional level equipment and sound stage, then you might want a higher impedance headphone so you can run a great deal of power to it without it blowing your ears off so you can focus on every small detail there is to offer.

Basically the matching would be:

low impedance amp - high impedance headphone = low total output and high distortion
high impedance amp - low impedance headphone = blow your ears off volume and potential to damage your ears or headphones
low impedance amp - low impedance headphone = working as intended (keep an eye on sensitivity and thd)
high impedance amp - high impedance headphones = working as intended (keep and eye on sensitivity and thd, sensitivity not as much of a factor in this one)

I would say go 32 as you will be able to use them in more devices without sacrificing as much sound quality when plugging them into a non amplified source (Ipod or cell phone for example).


----------



## cheesy999 (Jul 18, 2014)

Irish_PXzyan said:


> Thanks for clearing that up Cheesy. I'll ignore those frequency ranges while I search for an AMP ^^
> 
> Yeah I was thinking that, the Sennheiser would be better suited for that amp it seems.
> What sort of difference does 250ohm offer compared to 32ohm? is the difference worth bothering with or should I just stick to 32ohm?



The range is usually of no significance because they often allow up to +-10db either side of their chosen baseline before they chose to say their product is not reproducing it

The sound can be completely unlistenable and the frequency reproduction specs won't show it


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 18, 2014)

I'm actually starting a course in multimedia application development and I will be dealing with sound creation so perhaps 250ohm would be best suited for this??

I think I've made up my mind! The Beyerdynamic DT-990 pro I think is the winner 
I will keep checking online for more options but for the price and brilliant reviews I can't help but want these now 

Lads, what about this external sound card?
http://www.dabs.ie/products/creative-sound-blaster-omni-5-1-soundcard-usb-retail-916J.html
It's able to power up to 600ohm headphones and has a built in mic that could be useful until I buy a proper modmic.

I can also use this with my consoles and use my 5.1 surround sound system too.
Seems good and price is great!
But would the quality be lacking to make proper use of the headphones?


----------



## Cybrnook2002 (Jul 18, 2014)

Looks good. We are just birds on your shoulder, it comes down to what will make you happy.


----------



## xvi (Jul 18, 2014)

Kursah said:


> I prefer closed-back for two reasons: Bass Impact/Presence and isolation.


Agree as well. I'm sure there are great open-ear headphones, but I haven't run across one yet and I really want isolation.

I bought a true 5.1 headset from Turtle Beach (through woot.com). They're absolutely terrible. There's no sense of actual surround. Not even close. Let me map out the channels.

Front = Sides, slightly forward
Rear = Sides, slightly back (can't tell difference between rear from front unless you're sitting down testing each speaker)
Center = Basically both fronts at once
Bass = Pop and rattle from two small speakers that quickly suffer from overexcursion (not enough room left over for a good speaker)

I know you've already made up your mind about passing on a 5.1/7.1 headset, but I just want to reaffirm that you've made the right choice.

I've stuck with IEMs in the past since they offer nice isolation, good sound (and bass if you get a good seal), and are rather lightweight. I liked my old Sennheiser CX300s until they died. I moved to a pair of Klipsch Image S2s that were decently good, but.. died, I think? Liking the Image S2 and wanting something more, I tried the Image S4a, but it lacked something I couldn't put my finger on. I eventually lost them somewhere. Ended up buying a relatively cheap bluetooth headset that I'm using now for most everything. The lack in audio quality is worth the portability and not having to untangle cables, although I will be looking at new IEMs because some days, I just need to seal out the world.

The Turtle Beach set is nice since they just tie in to my existing 5.1 setup and I can keep them plugged in at all times. It works decently well as a headset, but doesn't provide anything close the immersive experience I was hoping for. I also have some decently inexpensive Sennheiser HD202 on-ears that provide pretty decent sound on most anything. None of my gear is anywhere near high-end, but for me, nothing has really come close to a $50 pair of IEMs. Woot often has a Klipsch Image S4s in various flavors for around the $35 mark (+$5 shipping). If you're doing anything other than sitting down, it might be worth investing in a nice IEM in addition to your circumaural/supra-aural set.


----------



## WhiteNoise (Jul 18, 2014)

Quality without a doubt has not gone down. Speaker technology has gone up for sure. I have full sized speakers, book shelf speakers and monitors. They all sound awesome. My smallest speakers paired with a sub sound the best of all of them.

You don't need a sub to thump tons of bass. I like my base blended into my music. Sounds more realistic. 

As for headphones Vs headsets. Well they each have their uses. I have a couple pair of audiophile grade cans and a couple pair of gaming headsets. When I'm gaming I actually prefer my Sony Pulse Elite. It works awesome on PC and PS3/PS4. No mic hanging off my shirt or sitting on my desk. Sounds great, works great.

When i listen to music I swap in my Grados or Audeze cans.

I prefer open back cans for the more airy and larger sound stage.


----------



## AhokZYashA (Jul 19, 2014)

i personally have the DT770/80ohms and tried the DT990/250
and i can say for gaming, both are equally good, it comes down to preference which sound signature you want


----------



## remixedcat (Jul 19, 2014)

Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 // Fiio E7 Amp/DAC << my audio setup


----------



## Capitan Harlock (Jul 19, 2014)

For the beyer is good too the fiio e10 not the e10k because cant run heaphones past 150ohm but the fiio e10 olympus can run headphone 16 to 300 ohm so with the beyer you can be ok + if you want a mic you can buy the modmic so in case you in the future change headphone you can replace it and put the mic back on xd.
About the sound card well mmm i dont know if i can trust a sound card that need drivers vs something driverless like my fiio e10 but if you see a good review and comparison about a amp/dac vs that soundblaster is up to you xd.
Speaking of the frequency response i can tell that i have used a lot of normal 32ohm headphone with 20 to 20khz and using a corsair vengeace 1500v2 that is another world listeng when you have a better freuqncy responde like 10 to 30khz and 56ohm even because both my superlux hd668b and the corsair one have 50mm driver and in a way or another the corsair have a little amp dac but without software didnt work so well the superlux with dedicated amp/dac deliver much more in a lot of thing about the sound so human ear can listen only 20 to 20khz but if you listen to source that are 20 to 20khz vs 10 to 30khz you can hear the difference and im not a person affected by the placebo effect so this is what i think.


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 19, 2014)

Thanks for all the extra advice lads and useful information regarding headsets and amps/dacs ^^

I'm very unsure of the sound blaster sound card myself because it's cheap, has multiple inputs and requires software to operate :/

I just don't know what I'm going to do yet.. but I'm checking up loads of headsets and amps and sound cards to broaden my horrizen and hopefully come across a clear winner, but sadly haven't yet found the perfect combo! 


ummmm.. yee lads will probably kill me for this.. but umm.. I am buying a headset for 90% gaming and some music listening while I sleep 
but umm.. What about this:
http://gaming.coolermaster.com/en/products/audio/sirus/

or

http://www.roccat.org/Products/Gaming-Sound/ROCCAT-Kave-XTD-5-1-Digital/

They are both classed as gaming headsets but have multiple drivers which I'm interested in. I owned a Sharkoon Xtactic 5.1 surround sound headset with a total of 8 drivers but they were tiny 10mm and I think 20mm drivers and sounded tiny in sound but gave the very best immersion in games which I really enjoyed.
I used my sennheiser headset for music listening so this headset was used a lot until it broke 


The coolermaster headset has some pretty good reviews and has 3x30mm drivers and 40mm subwoofer driver. Sounds good to me?? Like the sound wouldn't sound so tiny as my sharkoons did!

The Roccat headset has 6 total drivers with 2x40mm drivers and 1x30mm subwoofer driver. Sounds great enough to me and also very good reviews for it. Plus it looks very nice! 
I also bought the Roccat Kone XTD mouse last week and it's the best mouse I've ever bought! Which makes me rather trust worthy of this brand and really love the premium look about their XTD range ^^

What are your guys thoughts on this matter???
Since I want a good gaming headset.. should I just look into these ones??

I do how ever intend on buying the Beyerdynamics DT 990 Pros anyway. But would take a month before I get those also.



orrrr should I just buy the sennheiser 363d gaming headset? But I really am unsure about getting another virtual surround headset as I already have 2 of them and they don't give much immersion at all!

Help me lads!!


----------



## Capitan Harlock (Jul 19, 2014)

well i didnt have tried a 7.1 or 5.1 headset with so many drivers but i think that virtual is much better because if the driver i big enough like my corsair 50mm you dont have distortion and so on with 5.1 and 7.1 and gives me a good a immersion.
On the other hand from having punchased my superlux now i wear them all the time when i dont have to play with friends and i needed a mic .
So have billions of drivers when we have only 2 ears xd i joke but you have experience with a headset like this so i dont think that having driver of 30 or 40 mm can give you a better overall experience that a bigger solid driver.
The sennheiser are 150ohm if i recall like the older one and so they need a good powerfull soundcard but are very expensive compared to the dt 990pro+modmic+amp/dac combo.
A good thing would be to try it but i dont know where you could go i live in italy so xd .
The dt990pro +fiio e10 or nuforce udac 2/3 or the audioengine d1.
The fiio e10 olympus on ebay i payed it 50€ with free shipping.


----------



## Kursah (Jul 19, 2014)

Stay away from headsets with multiple drivers...there's no good tuning or solution. If you want multi-speaker surround sound, use speakers setups in a properly sized room. With headphones, rely on good stereo imaging and possibly 5.1/7.1 emulation. You will gain far more immersion from better headphones than you ever will from multi-driver headsets. It's shitty drivers with a crappy design that can't possibly ever be tuned to sound good enough to be justifiable for the expense to even produce, let alone purchase. Steer clear.

Check into the Aune T1 for a good Dac/Amp, you can get a system-level EQ that will work well with it. I have one...I never use it because I run my Auzen Forte > Denon AVR-1613 Receiver > Speakers and Headphones

I prefer X-FI's EQ and I'm gonna use the Auzen till she dies.

The Sennheiser gaming headsets are a solid option, but so is a cheaper pair of headphones + modmic. I use the zip tie + cheap boom mic + 6ft 3.5mm extension cable method honestly. And it works very, very well and was very, very cheap. I think the cable was $5 and the mic was $7, a bag of zip ties, $1.50. Turning your favorite headphones into a gaming headset, priceless.


----------



## Capitan Harlock (Jul 19, 2014)

The aune t1 is a tube amp/dac so you can tune the sound with different tube but didnt give you a flat and pure imagine instead of a solid amp.
I think is better didnt go with tube.


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 19, 2014)

I think you're right lads, I really do want a premium headset instead of cheaper drivers for once in my life 
I will skip the 5.1 headsets and will just stick with a proper stereo headset!

I'am siding with the Sennheiser 363d at the moment because it's ready to game right out of the box and has a great mic already ^^
It's very large and comfortable looking and doesn't have as harsh highs as the Beyerdynamic 990 Pro 

Problem for me is I will have to spend more money on a good DAC\AMP to get the most out of them though right?
I know nothing about these amps and dac stuff so I really don't know what is good or not.
I do like the Fiio E10 and E11 and also that Astro Mixamp that was suggested earlier but I don't like the prices of them 

Should I just go with one of those? Or should I stick with the Sound blaster Omni sound card? I do want the best power for the headset, I don't want to waste money on anything and get below average performance!


----------



## Nordic (Jul 19, 2014)

I have the jvc rx700's mentioned earlier in the thread with the aune t1 also mentioned. Its a good combo.


----------



## Capitan Harlock (Jul 19, 2014)

Irish_PXzyan said:


> I think you're right lads, I really do want a premium headset instead of cheaper drivers for once in my life
> I will skip the 5.1 headsets and will just stick with a proper stereo headset!
> 
> I'am siding with the Sennheiser 363d at the moment because it's ready to game right out of the box and has a great mic already ^^
> ...


the amp/dac that i suggest to you are very good with a good price to performance and you dont need nothing over 200€ for have an amp/dac that can drive even 600ohm but i dont think is good to have something so powerfull and dont useit so what i suggest is good for 16 ohm to 300 ohm.
The sennheiser are good but you have already a powerfull soudcard?
Because they are 150 ohm so you need enough power to fully driver it?
I remenber that sennheiser with asus have made a bundle with the asus xonar + sennheiser 360 old model and was around 200€ .


----------



## DLGenesis (Jul 19, 2014)

Vario said:


> Get some audiophile 2 channel headphones and a separate mic.



exactly what ive done E:


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 19, 2014)

Yeah I might consider getting that amp so! I don't have the sound card. I do intend on buying it but I'm not sure if I want to or need to?
If I were to buy a Fiio E11 or E10.. would I still need a sound card??
I can always use Razer surround software if i need too along with an AMP and should that be enough to make me happy?

Or must I buy a sound card and an AMP? Or buy the Astro mixamp which is an AMP\DAC??


----------



## Lopez0101 (Jul 19, 2014)

I've got a pair of HE-500's and Audio Technica ATH-A1000X's. Closed back headphones have the benefit of stronger bass, but I do enjoy the open backs of my 500's. Plus, my Amp is too powerful for low impedance headphones and I get some very quiet buzz from the A1000X's.

If you really want to get into the world of audio, these are the guys I have my AMP/DAC from. http://schiit.com/products  You'd spend a bit over 200$ for their basic AMP/DAC combo, but it's going to be better than the Fiio E10.

If you get an external DAC, you don't need a soundcard. You can either go through USB, or the optical port (recommended) on your computer to the DAC. Built in cards are enough for optical because it's just a plain electronic signal. Yes, surrounded software will work.

One thing I discovered, that I really love, is using open back headphones with speakers. I have my speakers hooked up to the same amp as my headphones. If you thought open headphones had a big soundstage before, just wait. Plus, you get the bass that larger speakers offer. Sounds awesome.


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 19, 2014)

Jayziz that's a pretty pricey combo! I'd be spending the same amount on that combo as I'd pay for the headset 
Could I get away with just buying the AMP? is the DAC really needed? What benefit would that bring to the headset by getting a DAC?

Sadly my laptop doesn't come with an optical slot so I can only go down the USB route


----------



## Lopez0101 (Jul 19, 2014)

You'd need RCA cables to go from the source to the amp, which would be a splitter from the green plug on your laptop, but that's using the laptops built in sound, so it's pointless.

I was just suggesting that, if you really wanted to get into it and start spending money. =P


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 19, 2014)

I would buy everything I need such as an AMP and a DAC after awhile ^^ Just for right now I only want to spend 250 bucks at least on a headset and possible an AMP to get them going and then buy a DAC.

I'm still considering the Creative sound blaster Omni as it has an AMP built into it and I like their software.
It's only 75 bucks so it just looks very good to me!
What do you think about that sound card??


----------



## BumbleBee (Jul 20, 2014)

La Figaro 339
Burson HA-160
Mytek Stereo 192 DSD
* Geek Pulse X (crowd funding)
MHDT Steeplechase (modded)
Corvette (diy kit)
Sennheiser HD600
Audeze LCD-3F
Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3
Wireworld Solstice 6
Wireworld Ultraviolet
Furman PS-PRO II
Wireworld Oasis 6
Fostex PM8.4.1

everything I own! ask me anything about headphones


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 20, 2014)

I was waiting for you to venture in here 
I would trust what you have to say about everything so please feel free to advise me!

Sennheiser 363d + Creative sound blaster Omni DAC\AMP

Or

Beyerdynamic 990 Pro + Creative sound blaster Omni 

I would save 50 bucks by buying the 990 pro which would be nice ^^

Tell me what to do!

Edit: Forgot to ask, why so many headsets?!


----------



## BumbleBee (Jul 20, 2014)

you can save more money if you buy everything separate.

Sennheiser HD518/HD558 $130-$180

Blue Snowball/Antlion Modmic/Samson Go $50 each. those Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic headsets are over $300.

buy a cheap sound card.

I didn't read this thread lol


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 20, 2014)

I can grab a pair of 558 for 115 bucks on ebay which would save me 85 euro, are they the exact same headset?? Will I get the same overall audio quality that the 363d gives??

I can get the 990 pro for 150 bucks and the 363d for 200 :/
would the 990 pro be better than the 558?????

I would get the creative sound card with any of these as it's cheap and should do the job ^^


----------



## BumbleBee (Jul 20, 2014)

Irish_PXzyan said:


> I can grab a pair of 558 for 115 bucks on ebay which would save me 85 euro, are they the exact same headset?? Will I get the same overall audio quality that the 363d gives??
> 
> I can get the 990 pro for 150 bucks and the 363d for 200 :/
> would the 990 pro be better than the 558?????
> ...



HD518 is bassy and has cloth earpads.
HD558 is darker and has velour earpads.
HD518, HD558, HD598, PC350, PC360 and so on use the old HD555/HD595 driver or the new HD5xx driver.

the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro is probably a better headphone.

I would get an Asus card for the third party driver support.


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 20, 2014)

Thanks for the good simple info! If you were me, would you go with the Beyerdynamic 990 Pro over the sennheisers?? It will only cost me 150 euro and I like the looks of it more too 

Should I get the Asus Xonar U7 sound card?? Would that work very well??


----------



## Kursah (Jul 20, 2014)

Depends on if you feel the 990's fit what you expect. I recommend starting easy and simple. 

Get the 518, get a sound card, I was impressed even by my ooooold X-Fi Xtreme Music PCI years ago for headphone usage...it performed quite well for my old HARX700's. 

I'd take some time to really research the models here...see if you can find people that have similar listening preferences to you. Look on here, google, head-fi, etc. Everyone's audio perception and expectations are different but many people are close enough that some experience-based reviews might be helpful.


----------



## BumbleBee (Jul 20, 2014)

Irish_PXzyan said:


> Thanks for the good simple info! If you were me, would you go with the Beyerdynamic 990 Pro over the sennheisers?? It will only cost me 150 euro and I like the looks of it more too
> 
> Should I get the Asus Xonar U7 sound card?? Would that work very well??



if I were you..

I would buy the Sennheiser HD600 lol

my favourite headphones for the money!

HD518, HD558 and DT990 Pro are all good headphones. 

audio reviews can be silly.. how do you explain to someone who owns a pair of Polk towers what darker or neutral means?


----------



## Kursah (Jul 20, 2014)

They can be silly and they can also signify whether it's worth it to buy a $350 pair of headphones and need a $300+ dac/amp to use them too. One thing to note with the Senn's is that anyone that owns them and actually listens to them will recommend a good amp, something that can handle high impedance phones. I just went through about two dozen Amazon reviews and this rings too clear on that aspect. So for this it's a good idea to read about them.

Can the user handle clamping force? Maybe, maybe not? Some can, and can't. There are reviews with and without glasses, using PC soundcards, or dac/amps, or higher end gear or even old school gear. Sure it's subjective and opinion-based but there's something to be said for digging deeper and taking the time to research the product and others' experiences instead of taking a whim suggestion and purchase a very expensive pair of headphones. Someone that doesn't take the time to research will garner that risk of being ultimately disappointed.

If 9/10 users love it and all say you need a more expensive amp, keep that in mind with your budget. There are many headphones that will still sound good/decent with lower-powered gear and integrated sound card HP amps. There are even expensive headphones that will sound great with smart phones and the like. There are also many that won't without help...and then getting into sound cards, sources, file types, dacs, amps, is a whole 'nother very expensive can of worms.

I say keep it simple. Start with something within your budget and see if this is the route you need to take, want to take or can settle with less and never know the difference. I for one should've stopped 7+ years ago at my JVC HA-DX3's. Can't complain with my D2000's and HE400's and even XB500's, but there's a lot of money just there, not including sound cards, dac/amps, receivers, etc. It all adds up, and for me I would've been great with my sound card, FiiO E9 and HA-DX3's...but my need for sound clarity with more bass presence really sapped the cash out of my budget...and I'm on the LOW end of this hobby.

All I can say is, take your time, try to test listen or buy from somewhere with good return policies, research, research, research. It's your wallet, spend with the most educated decision you can make.


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 20, 2014)

I think I'll get the Sennheiser HD 558 or else the Beyerdynamic 990Pro.
I'm reading reviews and the differences between them and I'm liking the sound of the 990 pro but not to sure about the extra highs that it produces.
I'm just not too sure 

The Sennheisers have stronger bass with lesser highs which sounds a bit better to me ^^
I prefer warmer sound with nice bass but I'm unfamilar with a headset that has higher highs than bass! But reviews claim that you can hear things that they never noticed before and has good immersion in games.

Each headset brings its positives and negatives so I'm still just so unsure 

I would like the HD600 myself! But their out of my budget that I'm willing to spend on a headset. But perhaps in the future I'd consider it if I end up forming a new hobby of mine :L

At the moment I haven't found any other headset that would be better suited for gaming sadly! But I'll keep surfing and hopefully find a clear winner by tomorrow 

Damn AMP\DACS! seriously damn them ^^ I didn't even think about these damn things before these headsets! I figured any sound card would do the job 
Feck sake!
I like the Asus Xonar U7! but only drivers 150ohm headphones so that gets rid of the 990 pro!
I like the Creative Omni as it supports 600ohm headphones but asus sound card has slightly better features and performance 

At the end of the day, I may end up having to buy one of those Fiio or Astro AMP\DACs!
If I were to get the Fiio E11 AMP, does that mean it only powers the headphones and I will require software to give it virtual surround such as Razers Surround software?
Or do I still need an external sound card of DAC to do that?
I just need to make sure so I don't mean to sound as though I'm repeating myself!
Sorry lads, Thanks for all the advice.. I've come along way in these last few days ^^


----------



## Lopez0101 (Jul 20, 2014)

Most quality DACs and Amps goal is to deliver linear, unaltered audio from the source signal. If you want virtual surround you're going to have to use software. If you're only going to be using all this stuff at a stationary computer, I wouldn't get the Fiio E11 since it's meant to be portable.


----------



## Capitan Harlock (Jul 20, 2014)

some amp/dac like all the models i suggested are usb so you dont need extra cables but be sure to use usb2.0 because usb3.0 work in a different way and have too much speed for the need of a dac.


----------



## 15th Warlock (Jul 20, 2014)

Kursah said:


> I thought the same way Vario until I heard a good pair of open headphones. What you think sounds good might sound crappy to someone else.
> 
> I prefer closed-back for two reasons: Bass Impact/Presence and isolation.
> 
> My HE-400's have great bass, but lack the impact my D2000's have...yet they are so open it's like being at a concert...the sounds have space to seperate, expand, sound more natural. Now when I wear my closed phones things sound clausterphobic and fake. But that's to my ears with my equipment. There are soooooo many variables to this, it's not necessarily clean cut for everyone, it takes some experiementing. As Head-Fi would say, sorry about your wallet.



Owning both a Turtle Beach 5.1 headset and a Razer Tiamat 7.1 with discrete speakers, I can say that the channel separation and spatial location are much better when gaming than my other headphones that use emulated 5.1 or 7.1 surround.

The Tiamat in particular has excellent bass response and very clear treble and mid level acoustics, it even features a button in its volume control base that allows you to go back to 2.1 sound when listening to music, and all 4 speakers on each side work at the same time to provide a level of audio fidelity that cant be matched by other 50mm driver headphones I own.

In conclusion, from my experience you can't go wrong with the Tiamat, the price you quote though is way too high, I remember paying $179 for a brand new set when they were released first a couple of years ago.


----------



## newconroer (Jul 20, 2014)

Vario said:


> Get some audiophile 2 channel headphones and a separate mic.



I have to second this. After some encouragement from Bumble and a bit of research, I found that good reference headphones, a neutral desktop amp and a decent soundcard(preferably with it's own amp too), is a great combination for both gaming and music/film.
And if you cannot yet afford a quality desktop microphone, in the meantime, just buy a cheap headset like Creative Fatal1ty HS-800 (used even!) for online gaming sessions. I've even seen some people unjack the microphone on the HS-800, tape it to their good headphones, and do it that way.

Unless you're going for super sound imaging or audio recreation, I'd get some closed back cans. You'll appreciate the noise isolation (and so will your house mates), as well as the thickness of the bass.

Not that open cans don't have bass, but well, goto an audio store and see what I mean.


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 21, 2014)

Ah yes! I have read up on reviews that I must connect it to a usb 2.0 port. I only have one port which is being used by my laptop cooling pad but it does offer a spare 2.0 usb slot to make up for the loss... would that be okay to use that???

I'm still interested in those razer and roccat headsets as I will use them for mainly gaming so I must consider them! 
I'm only worried that the overall sound quality will be thin like my shakoon headset which is destroyed and gone :L
But my brother still has his so I will test it out again in BF4 and see how it fairs to a normal stereo headset.

But I do want a high quality headphones though! soo badly! It's driving me nuts that I have yet to decide on a pair yet 
At this rate I feel as though I should just get two of them! On high quality headphones and a headset with multiple lower quality drivers for max immersion 

I must go test BF4 with my Sennheiser HD 201 and Logitech G930 and sharkoon xTactic 5.1 headset ^^
Hopefully this will help me on what I really want for gaming ^^


----------



## Capitan Harlock (Jul 21, 2014)

Irish_PXzyan said:


> Ah yes! I have read up on reviews that I must connect it to a usb 2.0 port. I only have one port which is being used by my laptop cooling pad but it does offer a spare 2.0 usb slot to make up for the loss... would that be okay to use that???
> 
> I'm still interested in those razer and roccat headsets as I will use them for mainly gaming so I must consider them!
> I'm only worried that the overall sound quality will be thin like my shakoon headset which is destroyed and gone :L
> ...



i think is better to connect directly to the laptop or motherboard that using a passthrough .
About buy 2 different set well a good thing to do is try a good pair of headphone with and amp/dac and see how is going and after that try the g930 or the sharkoon and see if you find a difference .
I dont think that the hd 201 can give you a good example of stereo image because they have little driver and dont have a flat sound but a much more bassy sound like my old sennheiser hd 437.
After that if you think that is not for you that sell the amp/dac and the headphone but i dont think you will regret after listening how is suppose to listen audio especially in games like battlefield xd.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jul 21, 2014)

Everyone always trashes Razor but I got a headset and a keyboard by them and they work fine. Plus I look extra cool to the homosexual squirrels outside my office window. When I wear these they look at me while they mate. I know what their thinking too. "DAMN those are some sexy headphones."


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 21, 2014)

I suppose late I can always buy the 2 and see what I prefer!
But for now I must stick to just buying one and hopefully that'll satisfy my headphone needs 

Those headphones do look pretty nice I must say! Razer know how to make things look flashy! My brother loves his razer keyboard and I agree that it looks great and feels great and performs great too!


Okay lads, I have tested all my headsets to see which sound best for 5.1 dvd movies and gaming.
Myself and my brother both tried each headset and compared them and came out with the same results and were both rather surprised and pleased at the same time ^^

In the movie testing we found that every headset performed very well and pretty much the exact same as each other despite the big price differences in these headsets.

The Sharkoon xtatic sounded the weakest out of the lot obviously and for its immersion they sounded the same in the movie but for one thing, the xtatic seemed to have a wider sound stage by a tiny bit and lesser rear surround compared to the stereo cans.
Maybe that's because the rears are only 10mm drivers?

While playing BF4, they all had the same immersion again and a very very pleasing surround sound effect and great sound stages for all headsets!

It has become quite clear that I don't need a multi driver headset as the stereo headphones performed better so that pleases me greatly!
My brother was very surprised with the results and couldn't quite believe that the sharkoon headset performed the same as my cheap sennheiser headphones! As was i to be fair 

I made up my mind that i'll buy the beyerdynamic dt 990 pro headset and an AMP!

Now I just need to pick out an AMP ^^


----------



## newconroer (Jul 21, 2014)

What about your mic headset? I'd say Siberia v2, HS-800 or Razer Carcharias. Remember with the HS-800 the mic is detachable. You could buy a used pair for about ten quid and put them in the drawer.

Avoid USB headphones, whatever you do, just don't go down that rabbit hole.

Not a big fan of your choice with the Beyer 990s as a first pair of audiophile cans.  They have a sharp sibilance and are a bit bassy, masking some of the sound stage. If you must go Beyer, the DT880 pro are better.
Still, at that price, you could buy a used amp and a pair of AKG cans or some Sennheisers. Also, Philips X1/00 Fidelios are sweet, could probably rock a mint pair used.

What sound card do you have? Or do you?


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 22, 2014)

As for mics, I use my laptop mic as it's sounding pretty good and better than any of my gaming headsets mics 
I'll stick with that for the time being.
I will buy a ModMic later down the road once I feel it's time to upgrade the mic so there isn't any rush just yet!

I completely agree, USB headpsets\headphones are gone for good! They all fecking make hissing noises!

Yeah I've read plenty of reviews mentioning that they have pretty high treble but it can be fixed by tweaking the eq settings which I plan on doing.
I'm sure that'll be okay to do that?

I still am considering the Sennheiser 598 but I hear that they have some bass but many complain that they felt a bit lacking and wanting more.
I do like bass so I feel that what ever I go for must have the potential for good sounding bass 

I don't have any sound card at all :/ That's why I'm looking at the Asus Xonar u7 and Creative Sound Blaster Omni as they have a built in AMP and DAC but I would prefer to buy a better amp.

But if I buy an AMP it'll mean I won't have a sound card and will need Razers software to manage the headphones.

I just don't know what to do about this situation!

Edit: Would the Schiit Magni do the job? It'll cost me 130 euro including shipping :/ Or should I go with something else? It's a bit expensive for my liking...


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 22, 2014)

Morning lads, Sorry to double post but I just wanted to let yee know that I bought the Beyerdynamic DT 990 pro 250ohm off of ebay for 170 bucks brand new 
I'm excited and relieved to have finally picked out which one I want! Happy days ^^
Thanks for all the advice and suggestions from everyone, it really made a difference.

Now I must choose an AMP! or I'll just stick with the asus external sound card or creatives for the mean time ^^

Edit: Okay lads, I just bought the Fiio E07K  Reviews are positive and it suits me right down to the ground! So hopefully these perform well and have enough juice to drive me new headphones ^^


----------



## Capitan Harlock (Jul 22, 2014)

Irish_PXzyan said:


> Morning lads, Sorry to double post but I just wanted to let yee know that I bought the Beyerdynamic DT 990 pro 250ohm off of ebay for 170 bucks brand new
> I'm excited and relieved to have finally picked out which one I want! Happy days ^^
> Thanks for all the advice and suggestions from everyone, it really made a difference.
> 
> ...



Good to hear you have choose the beyer and the fiio e07k is a good performer plus is portable but i think have much power my fiio e10 or some other amp/dac and remenber to swith the gain to high because you have to power the beyer with all the power necessary xd and of course take a look at the volume or you blow you ears xd


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks ^^ Yeah I will raise the gain and hopefully it'll be powerful enough for my liking and won't be dissapointed 
I always set my volume VERY low on everything before I do anything as I've learnt my lesson well in the past :L

I'm quite excited now I must say!


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 28, 2014)

Top of the morning too yee all, how's it hanging??

I have had 3 full days with my headphones and fiio e07k and I have to say I wasn't quite expecting this! I knew I was going to get better audio than any headset\headphones I've ever had but to spank my 5.1 home theatre system was very unexpected :O

I certainly am treated to a new realm of realism and I don't think I can ever go back!

Seriously though.. I launched BF4 and was suddenly greeted to a true cinematic experience that I never heard of before on my computer ^^
The positional audio is quite exemplary and clearly can hear footsteps and gun shots and rockets whizzing all around me and jets and helicopters flying over head!! I never experienced that before!

Listening to music is also better than usual and is very impressive while listening to FLAC audio files and while my blu ray movies sound so damn good that I am reaching for all my favourite movies again!

I can even use it on the PS4 and FLIIPPPING hell!! I downloaded Destiny Beta and set audio to LPCM and holy mother of GOD! Best sounding experience EVER! the positional audio is unreal and so damn beautiful that I stood at places for so long just listening to everything going on around me :L

I got my brother to check them out and he sat there wided eyed at what he was hearing and once he took these headphones off.. he stared at me like whhaaatt the feecckkk?!?!
So much so that he has a pair of these arriving next week :L

The great thing is I'm not trying to justify these headphones due to the hurting of my wallet! They really are better than I expected and sound stage is large and full of clear audio and I just can't take these things off me!


My next step is to buy a seperate AMP and a DAC in a couple weeks but I just can't imagine this headphone getting any better than this??
Like can it really get better by getting a more powerful AMP and a DAC??


----------



## Lopez0101 (Jul 28, 2014)

They can. I didn't notice a big difference going from a tiny $100 uDAC2 to my $900 Amp/DAC combo. Then again, that little uDAC wouldn't be able to drive one of my pairs of headphones, nor did it support higher end capabilities of FLAC files. The biggest difference you'd notice is if that current amp couldn't handle higher impedence cans, which it seems isn't an issue with what you currently have. Then again, I've never really had any life changing experiences upgrading my audio reproducing capabilities, not since my first 5.1 system and shaking the house with a dedicated sub when I was a teenager. 

I just notice small changes and things sounding a bit more clear.


----------



## Guitar (Jul 28, 2014)

You make me want to go buy that combo now. I wouldn't mind trying something different. Maybe when I get a raise I'll get a new set of cans.


----------



## newconroer (Jul 28, 2014)

Irish_PXzyan said:


> My next step is to buy a seperate AMP and a DAC in a couple weeks but I just can't imagine this headphone getting any better than this??
> Like can it really get better by getting a more powerful AMP and a DAC??



For me it was sound card that made the difference.
As an example :

Onboard sound + gaming headset (fatal1ty, razer etc.) = lacking bass, muddy and limited equalizing options.
Onboard sound + audiophile headphones = nice but limited
Soundcard + gaming headset = good bass (though not tight) and can achieve clarity with equalizing
Soundcard + audiophile headphones = worth the money, but lacking some punch
Soundcard + audiophile headphones + external amp = best purchase I had made in years

I am glad the headphones are an upgrade and the biggest thing you've picked up on is the combination of modern games with positional audio files, and decent sound stage headphones.
Now add on a decent DAC/AMP and there will be more character and authority behind the sound.


----------



## Lopez0101 (Jul 28, 2014)

newconroer said:


> For me it was sound card that made the difference.



Are you using optical outs to the DAC? That's what I do and I just use the optical out on my MSI board. I don't think the extra cost of a seperate sound card would benefit for optical.


----------



## KingPing (Jul 29, 2014)

newconroer said:


> Soundcard + audiophile headphones + external amp = best purchase I had made in years



Me too, i hardly even use my HT anymore. The first time i played CS of BF, etc with the sound card+ A headphones and amp i felt i was almost cheating, i could easily heard where they where coming from.


----------



## newconroer (Jul 29, 2014)

Lopez0101 said:


> Are you using optical outs to the DAC? That's what I do and I just use the optical out on my MSI board. I don't think the extra cost of a seperate sound card would benefit for optical.




No I am using the headphone input (as it has a built-in amp). The soundcard is simply for quality and equalizing options.



KingPing said:


> Me too, i hardly even use my HT anymore. The first time i played CS of BF, etc with the sound card+ A headphones and amp i felt i was almost cheating, i could easily heard where they where coming from.


----------



## Capitan Harlock (Jul 29, 2014)

Irish_PXzyan said:


> Top of the morning too yee all, how's it hanging??
> 
> I have had 3 full days with my headphones and fiio e07k and I have to say I wasn't quite expecting this! I knew I was going to get better audio than any headset\headphones I've ever had but to spank my 5.1 home theatre system was very unexpected :O
> 
> ...



im happy to hear that you have see now what good audio is xd i can suggest to you the odac o2 from mayflower is very good and can drive every headphone and its a amp/dac combo unit or now that you have the fiio e07k you can buy a e09k amp from fiio and use the e07k as dac after you put it on the dock of the e09k xd.


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 30, 2014)

I would highly recommend buying yourself a new pair of cans when ever you can! get better if possible as it's highly worth while!

@newconroer: I certainly will get a better AMP and a better DAC, That's certainly going to happen! Would a Schiit Magni AMP work with the Fiio E07K? Or would I be better off getting a better DAC before getting an AMP??

I do want more control over sound options and EQ settings but for now, razer Surround does a good job but lowers quality and adds some latency but nothing serious though.

@Capitan Harlock: I was thinking about getting the E09k Amp next ^^ I think I'll get that or else a Schiit Magni Amp but I'll see which is better.


----------



## Lopez0101 (Jul 30, 2014)

If you can swing it, I might step up to the Asgard 2, if you have powered bookshelf speakers you can run those through the amp as well. I run my Audioengine A5+'s through my Lyr amp. Also, any amp with work with any DAC as long as the DAC has RCA outs. So the Magni would not work with the E07K, nor would any amp, except the E09K because of the proprietary connection.

E09K specs:
- Power: 900mW (32Ω); 150mW (300Ω)
- Impedance Range:16 ~ 600Ω
- SNR: >100dB (A weight)
- Distortion: <0.003% (100mW) - Line Out: 2V rms
- Pre Out: 0~6V rms
- Power: DC15V/ 1.5A
- Size: 149 × 96 × 56mm

Magni:
*requency Response: *20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-200KHz, -3dB
*Maximum Power, 32 ohms: *1.2W RMS per channel
*Maximum Power, 50 ohms: *1.0W RMS per channel
*Maximum Power, 300 ohms: *260mW RMS per channel
*Maximum Power, 600 ohms: *130mW RMS per channel
*THD: *Less than 0.005%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS
*IMD: *Less than 0.007%, CCIF
*SNR: *Greater than 100db, unweighted, referenced to 1V RMS
*Crosstalk*: -70dB, 20 Hz-20KHz
*Output Impedance:* Less than 0.1 ohms
*Gain: *5 (14db)
*Topology: *Fully discrete FET/bipolar, Class AB, DC coupled throughout
*Protection: *Standard failsafe DC power input and muting relay
*Power Supply:* “Wall wart” style 16VAC transformer, regulated +/- 15V rails
*Power Consumption:* 4W
*Size: *5 x 3.5 x 1.25”
*Weight:* 1 lb

The Magni is more powerful across the entire range, so any cans would be louder with it. SNR is better and so is the THD. The only downside is you would have to get a new DAC, of course you'd still have the portable one when on the go.


----------



## FreedomEclipse (Jul 30, 2014)

himanshusharma said:


> i think you should not buy much expensive headphone. Because you will waste money by doing this but if you are buying a good headphone then you will get a good experience.



^message of the day right here lads.

_"Buying expensive headphones is a waste but buying good headphones will get good experience."_

Time to count your pocket lint


----------



## Capitan Harlock (Jul 30, 2014)

I think the fiio e07k have a line out so yu can plug it to every amp you wanna buy via line out from the e07k but if you wanna buy a much powerfull combo and have the money for it go for the shit magni and the modi or the odac 2 combo unit .
The Fiio e09k costs around 90€ or so but depens on the retailer but for the schiit audio gear i dont know if you can buyit to another place other than theyr shop on the site.


----------



## Lopez0101 (Jul 30, 2014)

You can find it other places, but it's usually the same price.



FreedomEclipse said:


> "Buying expensive headphones is a waste but buying good headphones will get good experience."



Some people like nice things and they also like nice things that look and feel nice. "Buying expensive computer equipment is a waste, but buying good equipment will get you a good experience."  See what I did there?

I'll agree once you start getting into the $500 plus range. Then again, the most expensive headphones I've listened to are my HifiMan HE-500's and my Dac/AMP setup.


----------



## FreedomEclipse (Jul 30, 2014)

Lopez0101 said:


> You can find it other places, but it's usually the same price.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




But its a bit of a contradictory statement. sometimes cheap can be cheerful, but theyre not exactly going to give you a Buggati Veyron for the price of a 2nd hand Ford Focus. Corners will be cut to give you what you want at a cheaper price.

as for your spin on the whole thing.

sometimes a better experience costs money - sorta like hookers.... You can go with your $10 crack whores or you can go for something a little more fancy along the lines of $100+ for a more safer & enjoyable experience. Its hard to rate PC in terms of 'good experience' because there are so many tiers of 'good experience'

What is a 'good experience' on PC? a machine that BSODs once a week? a machine that will only run your games on mid settings? a dual core i3 setup with 4 gigs of ram HD3000 graphics? - Not exactly the best experience nor good experience for gaming. perfect experience for just everyday general use though.....


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 30, 2014)

I must ask, what does *600 ohms: *130mW mean? I understand the 600ohms but what is the 130mW???
It would certainly appear as tough I must buy he Schit Magni AMP, I was checking up on it an reading some reviews and it seems very impressive for the price ^^
It'll cost me 140 euro in total though from their website as I can't find it anywhere else :/

The E07K Does have a line out port I believe? I'm looking at it right now so it must be a line out  Would that mean the Magni would work perfectly with this?
Then later I could buy a DAC to make it sound better?

I still do't know if I will get an AMP first or a DAC  Or which would make the most difference!


----------



## Lopez0101 (Jul 30, 2014)

You have would to get a line out (green plug) to RCA adapter to work with the Magni. Also, it means that with 600 ohm impedance headphones, the amp can output 130mW to drive the headphones.



FreedomEclipse said:


> Its hard to rate PC in terms of 'good experience' because there are so many tiers of 'good experience'



And there are many tiers of headphones. I'm not exactly sure what you're arguing, other than pretty much saying what I said. What I meant was, you can get a 780 and it'll work great. You can get a 780 Ti for those few extra frames, but you don't need it. You can get $300 headphones and they'll sound great. You can get $700 headphones for that increase in quality, but you don't need it.


----------



## BumbleBee (Jul 30, 2014)

don't buy the Schiit Magni or Modi unless you plan on exchanging the Fiio E07K.

the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250 ohm has a high sensitivity, so it doesn't need a lot of driving power. it's also nowhere near Mid-Fi or Hi-Fi quality. 

look at these headphones if you want to upgrade

Shure SRH1540
Sennheiser HD600
Sennheiser HD650
HiFiMAN HE-400
AKG K712 Pro

and then invest in a Schiit Magni and Modi stack.


----------



## BumbleBee (Jul 30, 2014)

also the reason the headphone sounds better than your home theater is because none of you have any decent speakers or room treatment.


----------



## FreedomEclipse (Jul 30, 2014)

Lopez0101 said:


> I'm not exactly sure what you're arguing



Dont skimp on good hardware.

People are drawn to cheap/cheaper deals like flies to poop because they can save a buck or two. Then they cry like a bitch when it breaks. 

Sometimes quality comes at a price but how 'good' a pair of headphones sound is all down to personal taste. Some people prefer the sound of the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pros while some prefer the Philips Fidelio X1's..... Or you could just go with a cheap pair of AKG K550s because thats good enough for you.

Im adamant about getting myself a pair of Fidelio X1's (as ive most likely mentioned earlier in the thread) but im waiting for a price drop.


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Jul 30, 2014)

So how about if I just get the E09K instead or the Schiit gear??
Then perhaps next year I'll end up buying a higher quality headphones and then invest in the Schiit gear.

But would I notice much of a difference anyway? or would it be a tiny improvement?


----------



## Lopez0101 (Jul 31, 2014)

Hard to say, depends on how good your ears are! Plus, I've never heard Fiio gear.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 31, 2014)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Everyone always trashes Razor but I got a headset and a keyboard by them and they work fine. Plus I look extra cool to the homosexual squirrels outside my office window. When I wear these they look at me while they mate. I know what their thinking too. "DAMN those are some sexy headphones."



Not so much..........


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jul 31, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Not so much..........


 Stop quoting Reayth and yes they are sexy.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 31, 2014)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Stop quoting Reayth and yes they are sexy.



Not so much.............


----------



## newconroer (Aug 1, 2014)

Vali is about as high up the Schiit chain you should go in these early days of audio adventure.
Remember the Sensations I showed you from headfi? That would be a nice amp.

The problem with an external desktop DAC is that it hasn't any EQ(unless it's a higher end model).


----------



## Lopez0101 (Aug 1, 2014)

You can just use a software EQ. I don't use EQ's anyway, you'd have to change it for every song you listen to.


----------



## Kursah (Aug 1, 2014)

Lopez0101 said:


> You can just use a software EQ. I don't use EQ's anyway, *you'd have to change it for every song you listen to*.



I've used a software EQ (primarily my X-Fi EQ) for over 10 years and this is not the case, couldn't be more from the truth in-fact.

Sure if you MUST find the most BASS or best tuning for each and every song...well there's no other choice anyways...a DAC won't get them all right if you're that picky. So really you either tune it more to your liking after your sound card, dac, amp purchases or deal with what those bring to the table. I'd prefer to tune it even more to my liking and have a quick and easy setting should I need to make a change. But every song? Not even close! That's laughable should you choose not to tune your EQ to one song or genre or media type. But even then, having an EQ tuning for rock, rap, movies, youtube, gaming, etc. isn't a bad idea either...for those too lazy or becoming lazy, can very easily use one setting and be done with it. That's how I roll primarily anymore..keeps it simple and sounds damn amazing no matter what I throw at my sound system...all that really matters is if to does sound good to the listener, that's what it's all about.

I set it and forget it...and I have one EQ that works for my 2.1 hi-fi setup and my headphones. And another EQ setting if I feel I need more bass on the headphones too...which I rarely use anymore.

There's some pretty good EQ's out there if you don't have the X-Fi EQ, which I find to have the greatest effect with it's tuning to my ears, without distorting to hell and back..especially in the bass department...I haven't found an EQ that can match it on the low end yet.

But if you need an EQ and don't have a creative/X-Fi card...check out EQ APO:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/

It'll EQ everything on your sound output. Or you can choose a media player should you want to only EQ your media, etc. This makes even using DAC's for some nicer should they get one bass-light and want more bass. Food for thought.


----------



## Lopez0101 (Aug 1, 2014)

I was referring more to ever genre change. My collection on random goes from classical, to punk, to death metal. Anyway, when the producers master tracks they tune the sound to how it should sound. I just don't mess with EQ's, I want the sound as close to original as possible and then adjust the hardware, if necessary. If you want more proper bass, turn up the subwoofer, or add one. Or get headphones that are made to have a strong bass punch. But if you want to EQ, go for it. As before though, I wouldn't let a lack of hardware EQ stop anybody.


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Aug 2, 2014)

@newconroer: Yeah I like that also! I'm so unsure if I should get the Fiio E09K or not! It just seems fitting that I'd get that over anything else 

I'm looking up many AMPs but I just don't really know what I want at the moment


----------



## BumbleBee (Aug 2, 2014)

Irish_PXzyan said:


> @newconroer: Yeah I like that also! I'm so unsure if I should get the Fiio E09K or not! It just seems fitting that I'd get that over anything else
> 
> I'm looking up many AMPs but I just don't really know what I want at the moment



you don't need one.


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Aug 3, 2014)

Then perhaps I won't bother getting an AMP so ^^
But for the craic I might if I have some spare cash laying around


----------



## newconroer (Aug 4, 2014)

Lopez0101 said:


> I was referring more to ever genre change. My collection on random goes from classical, to punk, to death metal. Anyway, when the producers master tracks they tune the sound to how it should sound. I just don't mess with EQ's, I want the sound as close to original as possible and then adjust the hardware, if necessary. If you want more proper bass, turn up the subwoofer, or add one. Or get headphones that are made to have a strong bass punch. But if you want to EQ, go for it. As before though, I wouldn't let a lack of hardware EQ stop anybody.


The equalizing in this scenario is to produce the best results with your given headphones - not to change or alter the music because it should sound different or have a different 'vision' to what they wanted you to hear.

A lot of 'neutral' headphones are quite flat, or a bit too mid-centric.


----------



## khemist (Aug 10, 2014)

Instead of the Beyerdynamic MMX300 why not go for DT770's and a modmic and save some money.


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Aug 10, 2014)

I have the Beyerdynamic DT 990 pro 250ohm already 

I love it, the open cans are really wonderful sounding which I can't complain at all ^^

I will get a modmic in the near future when the time is needed


----------



## BumbleBee (Aug 12, 2014)

buy a Blue Snowball or Samson Go Mic instead.


----------



## Lopez0101 (Aug 12, 2014)

Yeah, I got a Modmic, it's pretty noisy. Disappointed for how expensive it was. I have a freestanding USB mic now, sounds a million times better.


----------

