# Increased VCore (Offset) vs Turbo Boost Voltage



## PersonWithTech (Jun 7, 2014)

While reading and following this guide I was just wondering which one can be considered better to increase to stabilize an OC. When I mean better, I mean in terms of power consumption while idle and effectiveness for the voltage.


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## PersonWithTech (Jun 7, 2014)

Bump


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## d1nky (Jun 7, 2014)

never reallu used the offset voltages, i was too lazy to try and get it all stable. Whereas with the manual vcore i could set it and the multiplier and be done. I don't mind power consumption differences because i doubt its noticeable!


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## PersonWithTech (Jun 7, 2014)

I assume manual Vcore means fixed voltages? If so I think they have very similar effectiveness, only offset saves power on idle. In mean time, is offset better than turbo.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 7, 2014)

You can't turbo volts......
Steady voltage is better for stability. ..
Offset is good for 24/7 high clocks with some economy ,im at 5ghz using 1- 1. 55 volts


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## Ed_1 (Jun 7, 2014)

first, I don't think turbo boost voltage is even a option in many MB bios .
I have Asus Z77 and know they don't use that option only auto, offset or manual voltage .

But if your able to use any of offset or turbo options, it saves on idle voltage state , with turbo option being best as it doesn't affect in a minus or positive way depending on setting .
So as long as your stable I would use it instead of manual , but manual will be more stable at higher oc .

Intel XTU has the turbo option for me once I am into windows , I actually do use a very small plus voltage with a small OC once I am into windows .


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## Ed_1 (Jun 7, 2014)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> *You can't turbo volts*......
> Steady voltage is better for stability. ..
> Offset is good for 24/7 high clocks with some economy ,im at 5ghz using 1- 1. 55 volts


Why do you say, you can't turbo, just curious .


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 7, 2014)

Because it's a bs option ie just a name for llc probably, you can increase voltage but an air compressor / turbo is not going to do anything to volts ever and no pcb I have ever seen had a turbo fitted.


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## Ed_1 (Jun 7, 2014)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Because it's a bs option ie just a name for llc probably, you can increase voltage but an air compressor / turbo is not going to do anything to volts ever and no pcb I have ever seen had a turbo fitted.


Well it does work, or at least the optoin in XTU works well so I assume the bios with native support of this option would give same thing .
Its gives similar results to adaptive offset in Haswell , in buy your idle is not affected and the voltage only gets added once your into boost multipliers .
No it has nothing to do with LLC AFAIK .


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## Vario (Jun 7, 2014)

He is making a joke, turbo as in a turbocharger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocharger

Intel calls the high frequency mode the turbo mode.  With the Gigabyte board I have, turbo mode voltage and offset voltage are the same thing.  For benchmarking I used fixed voltage and for day to day I use offset.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 7, 2014)

It may well work as a option in a bios but imho it is important to know what is actually happening and In reality there is no actual turbo involved 
From what you describe thats similar to LLC  or a positive only offset and too much of it could kill a cpu as I said its just a name for a different vreg voltage control mode they could have called it nitro volts but no nitrous would be involved either.


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## Vario (Jun 7, 2014)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> It may well work as a option in a bios but imho it is important to know what is actually happening and In reality there is no actual turbo involved
> From what you describe thats similar to LLC  or a positive only offset and too much of it could kill a cpu as I said its just a name for a different vreg voltage control mode they could have called it nitro volts but no nitrous would be involved either.


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## Ed_1 (Jun 7, 2014)

Vario said:


> He is making a joke, turbo as in a turbocharger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocharger
> 
> Intel calls the high frequency mode the turbo mode.  With the Gigabyte board I have, turbo mode voltage and offset voltage are the same thing.  For benchmarking I used fixed voltage and for day to day I use offset.


Yes, but with normal offset say your stock idle voltage is 1.0v , if you add say 0.1v offset your max voltage goes up but also idle is affected , same thing if you raise LLC it raises everything under any load according to the CPU VID (gets closer to this value as you raise it) .


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 7, 2014)

Llc raises everything slightly but offset is supposed to provide only what's required not extra but all these settings are initially setup and validated by the manufacturer so some vary in how they work. 
Wow turbo on a pc some have pure ass for ideas lol
Now google foo up a turbo upping volts on a pc vario and I might actually be impressed.


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## Vario (Jun 7, 2014)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Llc raises everything slightly but offset is supposed to provide only what's required not extra but all these settings are initially setup and validated by the manufacturer so some vary in how they work.
> Wow turbo on a pc some have pure ass for ideas lol
> Now google foo up a turbo upping volts on a pc vario and I might actually be impressed.


*http://tinyurl.com/krufb56*


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 7, 2014)

Troll much eh.
Are you five I advised the Op about whats actually happening and your just being an ass hat.

There is no way known to turbo volts or current. 

All motherboard's have various features that effect and control the voltages in different ways and some are called stupid things that might impress a five year old but essentially do basic up and down control of the available volts or current , the end.
Steady ie locked manually set volts with no droop are whats needed for max clocks and stability. 
However for most people's overclock it'sbest to use offset vvoltages and a lower max clock to harmonise max clock verses system longevity but its up to you,  turbo  ahead at your pleasure.
0.1 extra volts at idle in a chip made to work with way more will not hurt it.

I can almost hear the intense clicking of keys as google is hounded for proof, volts can be turbo'd


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## Vario (Jun 7, 2014)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Because it's a bs option ie just a name for llc probably, you can increase voltage but an air compressor / turbo is not going to do anything to volts ever and no pcb I have ever seen had a turbo fitted.


Troll eh?


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 7, 2014)

Thats me being informative about mislabelled setting's , did it sound trolly? I apologise as it wasn't meant to

It was however a direct , truthfull , unbiased and inoffensive reply to a direct question and didn't have much to do with you .


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## d1nky (Jun 7, 2014)

(love that pic of the rig with turbo and dump valve LOL)

Typically all voltage controls are the same, just some brands rename them.  

When overclocking i like to keep it simple. Adjusting offsets (''turbo volts'' etc) can lead to instability, vdroop or voltage spikes from the fluctuations of LLC, power delays etc. If you have the time and patience to set all your offsets, idle, load and turbo mode voltages then carry on, the outcome is just about the same. 

For the argument of power consumption, meh!!


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 7, 2014)

i had to give up on dynamic mode overclocking (what my intel board calls it)
i had to set my static voltages and leave it like that.
its quite confusing really. i have 2 different offsets  and then a static.
if i set the static to 1.22 (what i saw the cpu used at stock under full load) then add an offset of 0.1300 to give me my 1.35 target at full load.  the cpu will throttle with occt cpu oc test.
Strange though it seems it will not throttle with the psu test which puts cpu under 100% load and the gpu under 100% load.

then my other offset option is to set my static voltages at 1.35 and set the other offset to 130 (dont ask why it is numbered like that)
That Drops my idle voltages down to 1.25.. But again this causes the dumb thing to throttle..
so i was forced to set the static voltages and just not use offsets at all. for some reason that gives me a idle voltage of 1.32 and load voltage of 1.35
i have tweaked and tweaked tried all sorts of settings, but the only way i can make it not throttle when occt runs a cpu oc test is with static only..

its strange tough it wont throttle under prime. or occt psu test which is much harder on the system than then cpu oc test. but im not happy if the cpu throttles down for any reason at any time.
all this is done at 4.7ghz
i would like to also point out that if i set it to "automatic" 4.5ghz will use a whopping 1.48v so that is a big no no.
and whilst im at it. 1.35 in all detection software in windows equates to 1.3100 in the bios. when i say i set the voltages in bios to 1.35 i really set them to 1.3100 but i end up with 1.35 when im actually in my os. (this is a trait that i have seen on every motherboard and cpu i have ever over clocked so im not surprised. and thats with all offsets set to 0)

p.s
i assume "turbo voltage" is a voltage that only gets used when the cpu is in "turbo" mode which sounds like a easy way to set up offsets.
I imagine that you tell it what voltages you want to use when the cpu is in turbo mode (in my case 1.35v) and thats the end of it.

If that is how it works i would like that option my self as it would be easy for me to set up 0.95 idle. 1.35 turbo.
all these stupid offsets that cause unexpected throttling in one scenario but not in a equally or sometimes even more demanding scenario just seems like a whole lot more work than having 2 set voltages i could tell the system to use.
it is also an appropriate name if that is indeed what it does. although the word turbo does derive from turbine which obviously has nothing to do with anything. But if the word turbo in this instance is refering to the "turbo" state of the cpu then any one who has a modicum of sense would realize that its nothing to do with a mechanical turbo. and to argue the use of the word is simply trolling.


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## Ed_1 (Jun 7, 2014)

Sounds like your hitting a power limit , what wattage shows up when testing OCCT cpu test with HWmonitor or app monitoring app that shows CPU wattage .
What happens with OCCT linpack CPU test, does it throttle there to ?

Also what is temp as above 85 and OCCT as default temp limit (under config) , On power limits does your bios allow over 100% current settings . Asus has setting to like 140% depending on option , if your seeing 77-80w then that could be problem , maybe .

Edit: I see you got 2500k, I think its wattage package is 95w so forget above 77-80w which is for IB/Haswell ..


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## Vario (Jun 7, 2014)

Shambles1980 said:


> i had to give up on dynamic mode overclocking (what my intel board calls it)
> i had to set my static voltages and leave it like that.
> its quite confusing really. i have 2 different offsets  and then a static.
> if i set the static to 1.22 (what i saw the cpu used at stock under full load) then add an offset of 0.1300 to give me my 1.35 target at full load.  the cpu will throttle with occt cpu oc test.
> ...


You may have needed more to +offset than you anticipated, offset requires a lot of trial and error to get the voltage you want at 100% load.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 7, 2014)

Vario said:


> You may have needed more to +offset than you anticipated, offset requires a lot of trial and error to get the voltage you want at 100% load.


i gave up on it lol. spent like 2 days with it. had occt telling me that with the offsets it was getting 1.4v at full load but still throttling. Only does it in occt cpu oc test though. Really annoying. the psu test is so much more demanding on the cpu higher temps higher usage (constant 100% vs occasional 98% dips in the oc test) 
i can adjust wattage manually to allow crazy amounts before throttling. (one for always allowed to use this many watts, and then a second one that allows me to use more wats if needed for a pre defined amount of time) it also allows me to set a safe amp amount too. 
if any of the safe wattage or amps get exceeded then the turbo gets dissabled. (at 4.7 the cpu uses about 108w. so i can set the safe to 110w and burst to 120w for 1s. that has it never throtteling down due to watts at static voltage. 

but the stupid thing will always throttle during the oc cpu test if i use an offset. 5 seconds in it will drop ~300mhz off the speed may go lower then fluctuate after a while. and thats even when its using more voltage than i set for a static oc. 
all the options for overclocking seem nice and should allow you to set over clocks that are safe stable and energy efficient. the dumb thing just wont work like that.
im pretty sure that when i set it to dynamic and then set the voltages and offests. the mother board sees what voltage i have asked for and what speeds im running at, then says "for 4.7ghz you need 1.48v so i will slow it down to make it stable" 
but i dont need 1.48v thats just what "automatic" thinks i need. 
and that renders dynamic mode useless.


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## PersonWithTech (Jun 8, 2014)

Now everything has become way too confusing. If you read the linked guide, you will see that my ASRock Z77 motherboard has such an option. Both the "Additional Turbo Voltage" and "Voltage (offset)" happen to have the save +0.xxx v unit. Ive also noticed that setting offset at, say +0.050v, gives me a very similar load vcore to setting the additional turbo at the same voltage.


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## PersonWithTech (Jun 8, 2014)

Shambles1980 said:


> i gave up on it lol. spent like 2 days with it. had occt telling me that with the offsets it was getting 1.4v at full load but still throttling. Only does it in occt cpu oc test though. Really annoying. the psu test is so much more demanding on the cpu higher temps higher usage (constant 100% vs occasional 98% dips in the oc test)
> i can adjust wattage manually to allow crazy amounts before throttling. (one for always allowed to use this many watts, and then a second one that allows me to use more wats if needed for a pre defined amount of time) it also allows me to set a safe amp amount too.
> if any of the safe wattage or amps get exceeded then the turbo gets dissabled. (at 4.7 the cpu uses about 108w. so i can set the safe to 110w and burst to 120w for 1s. that has it never throtteling down due to watts at static voltage.
> 
> ...


My motherboard pretty much treats "additional turbo voltage" (as the setting states) like an offset voltage. Having +0.051v of "additional turbo volts" gives me a very similar load Vcore to that of the similar offset voltage. I must note that all the "additional turbo volts" are in increments of +0.004v. I do believe, however, that I receive a lower vcore when idle/low-load with turbo volts being used to OV. So therefore I believe using the stupid "additional turbo volts" feature gives me better power consumption and is most likely the reason it is advised in the GUIDE i linked (initial post). Oh, and it seems to stabilize the OC just as effectively.

One thing I picked up on when trying to find my max, temp Benchmark OC is that using a high "additional turbo voltage" with a high fixed voltage caused me to BSOD before full OS boot. I was at a frequency of 4.8GHz and seemed that i should have had enough power to boot the OS otherwise. I did get 4.7 working at 1.5V however.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 8, 2014)

PersonWithTech said:


> My motherboard pretty much treats "additional turbo voltage" (as the setting states) like an offset voltage. .



Holy shit I think we're getting somewhere, now hit the turbo button.

Thats trolling mate.
My comments before were honest and informed as you now see.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 8, 2014)

Shakespeare said:
			
		

> Whats in a name? what we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet


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## PersonWithTech (Jun 9, 2014)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Holy shit I think we're getting somewhere, now hit the turbo button.
> 
> Thats trolling mate.
> My comments before were honest and informed as you now see.


So pretty much "additional voltage turbo" isn't LLC. There is a different option for that. I'm on level 3 of LLC. 
Read the guide I linked and you will get an idea of what I'm looking at


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## Ed_1 (Jun 9, 2014)

PersonWithTech said:


> So pretty much "additional voltage turbo" isn't LLC. There is a different option for that. I'm on level 3 of LLC.
> Read the guide I linked and you will get an idea of what I'm looking at


right, LLC is something entirely different, its load line calibration , think of it like in your car alternator's voltage regulator , it tries to keep battery at somewhere between 13v and 14v . When you put a heavy load on (say headlights ) the voltage drops for split sec then raises by the voltage regulator , its trying to match the current needed an little more. Well there no way for it to know ahead of time so there a drop in voltage when load gets placed.
With LLC its doing same thing but when you raise LLC its trying to compensate more, giving more voltage when the load is on but there always a small delay and there will be more spikes to, you never see this w/o a fast scope on voltage rail, no software can see it good .

So your MB supports multiple types of voltage offsets it seems, , there all still offset , compare to a manual static voltage (more chance of ups and downs with offset types)


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## Aquinus (Jun 9, 2014)

CPUs have their voltages mapped to different power states (clock speeds) via the VID. Using additional turbo voltage is essentially like having another VID level above the highest one on the CPU when the turbo clocks kick in. It's basically an offset based on the highest VID voltage. Adjusting the core voltage as an offset will adjust *all VID voltages by the offset you specify*. So if you have an offset of +0.100v and your lowest idle voltage is 0.9v and highest load voltage is 1.2v, you would see 1.0v and 1.3v respectively. If you're overclocking with just the turbo, I would move the core offset to the lowest stable voltage you can get away with, plus a little more for comfort, then adjust the turbo offset for your turbo clocks. That way you maintain low power for all the regular VID levels but you still have extra voltage when boost is active.

You can overclock just by adjusting the core voltage offset, but you'll probably consume more power in general where using boost voltage offset will let you increase power when you need it. A combination of the two would probably yield the best results.


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## PersonWithTech (Jun 10, 2014)

Ed_1 said:


> right, LLC is something entirely different, its load line calibration , think of it like in your car alternator's voltage regulator , it tries to keep battery at somewhere between 13v and 14v . When you put a heavy load on (say headlights ) the voltage drops for split sec then raises by the voltage regulator , its trying to match the current needed an little more. Well there no way for it to know ahead of time so there a drop in voltage when load gets placed.
> With LLC its doing same thing but when you raise LLC its trying to compensate more, giving more voltage when the load is on but there always a small delay and there will be more spikes to, you never see this w/o a fast scope on voltage rail, no software can see it good .
> 
> So your MB supports multiple types of voltage offsets it seems, , there all still offset , compare to a manual static voltage (more chance of ups and downs with offset types)



Thanks. I believe I understand LLC. It is a protection mechanism from transients? 



Aquinus said:


> CPUs have their voltages mapped to different power states (clock speeds) via the VID. Using additional turbo voltage is essentially like having another VID level above the highest one on the CPU when the turbo clocks kick in. It's basically an offset based on the highest VID voltage. Adjusting the core voltage as an offset will adjust *all VID voltages by the offset you specify*. So if you have an offset of +0.100v and your lowest idle voltage is 0.9v and highest load voltage is 1.2v, you would see 1.0v and 1.3v respectively. If you're overclocking with just the turbo, I would move the core offset to the lowest stable voltage you can get away with, plus a little more for comfort, then adjust the turbo offset for your turbo clocks. That way you maintain low power for all the regular VID levels but you still have extra voltage when boost is active.
> 
> You can overclock just by adjusting the core voltage offset, but you'll probably consume more power in general where using boost voltage offset will let you increase power when you need it. A combination of the two would probably yield the best results.


Thank you, that was very useful.


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## Ed_1 (Jun 10, 2014)

PersonWithTech said:


> Thanks. I believe I understand LLC. It is a protection mechanism from transients?
> 
> 
> Thank you, that was very useful.


kind of , maybe this may help , 2 reference links and link of a forum about load line calibration .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_line_(electronics)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_droop

read those first for back ground .

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/24019-load-line-calibration-why-overclockers-should-care/

there maybe be better links, but this is what I found fast and agree with most .


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## Vario (Jun 10, 2014)

For daily usage, vdroop is in place for a reason, no point in circumventing it with LLC, especially if it only gets you 100 mhz more.


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## INSTG8R (Jun 10, 2014)

Like you when I left my board on Auto and OC'd it put it at some crazy 1.4+ volts. This is where I used a negative Offset to brings the volts back down to a more reasonable level. I of course have my LLC increased and my VRM Frequency locked. ASUS had a great guide for OC'ing Sandybridge but for some reason they took it down.


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## Ed_1 (Jun 11, 2014)

INSTG8R said:


> Like you when I left my board on Auto and OC'd it put it at some crazy 1.4+ volts. This is where I used a negative Offset to brings the volts back down to a more reasonable level. I of course have my LLC increased and my VRM Frequency locked. ASUS had a great guide for OC'ing Sandybridge but for some reason they took it down.


I think the reason you saw such high voltage is because you raise LLC way up , many guides recommend high and ultra high setting so with a semi low OC you may need - offset but you probably could get away with less LLC .


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## Aquinus (Jun 11, 2014)

INSTG8R said:


> Like you when I left my board on Auto and OC'd it put it at some crazy 1.4+ volts. This is where I used a negative Offset to brings the volts back down to a more reasonable level. I of course have my LLC increased and my VRM Frequency locked. ASUS had a great guide for OC'ing Sandybridge but for some reason they took it down.



Ohhh, yeah. VRM frequency will also let you reduce transience at the cost of a higher thermal for your VRMs, also I think it's harder for your VRMs to produce any given current at higher frequencies, so take your board and what it's capable of before changing it willy nilly. This is where having more power phases and VRMs capable of higher frequencies being really helpful.


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## INSTG8R (Jun 11, 2014)

Ed_1 said:


> I think the reason you saw such high voltage is because you raise LLC way up , many guides recommend high and ultra high setting so with a semi low OC you may need _ offset but you probably could get away with less LLC .


No this was before even adjusting the LLC. The funniest thing is to get it back down to the 1.35V I run at I only used -0.005 to get there. This has been running like this 24/7 for at least 2yrs without issue.


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## Ed_1 (Jun 11, 2014)

INSTG8R said:


> No this was before even adjusting the LLC. The funniest thing is to get it back down to the 1.35V I run at I only used -0.005 to get there. This has been running like this 24/7 for at least 2yrs without issue.


were you using 46x like in your sig ?
Maybe your VID is very high ?
I have had good results using auto on my P8Z77V pro , this is on mild OC with low voltage 1.112@4.2 raising multpier doesn't raise voltage my VID is like 1.19@4200


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## INSTG8R (Jun 11, 2014)

Ed_1 said:


> were you using 46x like in your sig ?
> Maybe your VID is very high ?
> I have had good results using auto on my P8Z77V pro , this is on mild OC with low voltage 1.112@4.2 raising multpier doesn't raise voltage my VID is like 1.19@4200


Yep haven't touched it since I set it up way back when. TBH I went as lazy as possible with it. Auto'd it up to x46, Negative Offset to bring the voltage back down, turned up the LLC(High), Locked the VRM at 350 and made sure my VRM Phases were at Optimzed. The only actual "voltage" I ever touched was the Offset.(-0.010)

Edit: I actually went and had a look so corrected some stuff.


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