# So it's 2020 and AMD still hasn't figured out TRIM with RAID?



## newtekie1 (Feb 1, 2020)

I've got two drives in RAID1 on my X470 system. I noticed that writes to the C drive have gotten extremely slow.  I did a little investigating and found out TRIM isn't working.  In fact Windows doesn't even detect the RAID Array as an SSD, it thinks it's a hard drive.

It doesn't matter which AMD driver I try, none of them enable TRIM on my SSDs.  Even the NVMe drive that isn't in a RAID array doesn't work with TRIM just because it is connected to the AMD chipset which is in RAID mode.

How is this still a think in 2020?  Intel has had working TRIM in RAID mode since like 2012, how has AMD not figured this out yet?  Has anyone actually gotten TRIM to work in RAID on an AMD chipset?  Maybe I'm missing something?


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## Assimilator (Feb 4, 2020)

Intel doesn't support TRIM in RAID1 either: https://superuser.com/questions/1019069/ssd-trim-support-on-raid-1-array-through-intel-rst


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 4, 2020)

@Mr.Scott @Bones @ShrimpBrime 

Any idea?


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## Solaris17 (Feb 4, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> Intel doesn't support TRIM in RAID1 either: https://superuser.com/questions/1019069/ssd-trim-support-on-raid-1-array-through-intel-rst



What?


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## ShrimpBrime (Feb 4, 2020)

Trim is not supported by the operating system while running raid 0.


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## freeagent (Feb 4, 2020)

Intel has been doing trim on raid 0 since z77, not sure what the holdup is on raid1 though.

Unless I’m mistaken..


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## EarthDog (Feb 4, 2020)

AFAIK, this is an amd thing. Intel supported trim with some form of raid(0) for several generations. 2012 IIRC.








						Intel brings TRIM support to SSD RAID arrays
					

TRIM is the best thing to happen to SSDs since the price of flash memory started falling. Now part of the Serial ATA specification, this command allows solid-state drives to...




					techreport.com
				




I'm shocked if this is true with amd. Doesnt make sense...

Edit: oh... raid 1...


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## Assimilator (Feb 4, 2020)

Solaris17 said:


> What?
> 
> View attachment 144018



Firstly, Intel's own site specifically states RAID0 only.
Secondly, congratulations for having enough $ to afford a workstation/HEDT-class system with an enterprise chipset and VROC. Which is the only configuration under which Intel supports TRIM for RAID1. The rest of us plebs get nothing.


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## EarthDog (Feb 4, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> Firstly, Intel's own site specifically states RAID0 only.
> Secondly, congratulations for having enough $ to afford a workstation/HEDT-class system with an enterprise chipset and VROC. Which is the only configuration under which Intel supports TRIM for RAID1. All the rest of us plebs get nothing.


x299 and vrock?


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## Assimilator (Feb 4, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> x299 and vrock?



Going by their system specs, yes.


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## mbeeston (Feb 4, 2020)

Windows 10 "optimize drives" shows SSD as "hard disk drive"
					

I upgraded my old computer with a Samsung EVO 850. I did a clean Windows 10 installation.  Installed Samsung Magic and fixed all the AHCI settings. Now I have full 6Gb/s transfer speed.  However, my




					superuser.com
				





			Your shiny new SSD still recognized as an HDD in Windows? – devlat techBlog
		

doesn't seem to be an amd driver issue as more of a windows issue... it's not going to enable trim if the os doesn't see it as a ssd...


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## damric (Feb 4, 2020)

What is the point of having TRIM and RAID on SSDs in 2020?

Isn't the automatic garbage collection good enough? Aren't NVMe drives fast enough?

There might be something obvious that I am not getting so please inform me 

Thanks. Now I am paranoid that I'm doing it wrong and I should put my NVMe drives in RAID and force TRIM


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## ShrimpBrime (Feb 4, 2020)

SSD review would be the go to place for answers with Trim on Raid.
As far as I know, raid and trim just doesnt work. Raid 0 1 or 5.

A read feom 2010, not sure if it applies today with windoors 10th.








						RAID0 & The SSD – TRIM And Building RAID0 - The SSD Review
					

TRIM IN RAID AND CRUCIAL REALSSDs Before we start, we need to give ample warning that TRIM does not




					www.thessdreview.com


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## Assimilator (Feb 4, 2020)

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if AMD doesn't support this on Ryzen systems. I imagine it may work on Threadripper boards, for the same reason it only works on HEDT Intel boards i.e. market segmentation. RAID in mainstream boards has pretty much been on the way out since SSDs became commonplace, primarily because the #1 use of RAID was putting a pair of HDDs in RAID0 to get semi-acceptable performance, and of course SSDs just rendered that whole argument moot.


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## cucker tarlson (Feb 4, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> Intel doesn't support TRIM in RAID1 either: https://superuser.com/questions/1019069/ssd-trim-support-on-raid-1-array-through-intel-rst


had 850 pro in hardware raid0 on z97 and trim worked by default.



newtekie1 said:


> Even the NVMe drive that isn't in a RAID array doesn't work with TRIM just because it is connected to the AMD chipset which is in RAID mode.


now this is pretty sad.


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## Vya Domus (Feb 4, 2020)

TRIM is a redundant feature with modern SSDs, it made sense 10 years ago when on board controllers where primitive but not anymore. Everything has been delegated to the SSDs themselves, the OS does not need to do anything with regards to their integrity/performance.

That being said I am not shocked at all AMD or anyone else does not really support this.



damric said:


> Isn't the automatic garbage collection good enough? Aren't NVMe drives fast enough?



Yes they are, drives will get slower as they get full no matter what, it's a side effect of using this technology. HDD were slower or faster as well depending on which track the data was stored. Everything has it's flaws.

TRIM is enabled with my AMD chipset and guess what, drives still get slower when they get full.


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## cucker tarlson (Feb 4, 2020)

Vya Domus said:


> TRIM is a redundant feature with modern SSDs, it made sense 10 years ago when on board controllers where primitive but not anymore. Everything has been delegated to the SSDs themselves, the OS does not need to do anything with regards to their integrity/performance.
> 
> That being said I am not shocked at all AMD or anyone else does not really support this.


did you read the first post or are you here to lecture us again how wrong we are ?


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## Solaris17 (Feb 4, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> Firstly, Intel's own site specifically states RAID0 only.
> Secondly, congratulations for having enough $ to afford a workstation/HEDT-class system with an enterprise chipset and VROC. Which is the only configuration under which Intel supports TRIM for RAID1. The rest of us plebs get nothing.



but that is my haswell server. Not the PC in my specs.


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## cucker tarlson (Feb 4, 2020)

@newtekie1 can you trim manually ?


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## Deleted member 158293 (Feb 4, 2020)

I believe AMD supports Trim on Raid starting with their chipset driver version 17.10.  Not necessarily the standard Microsoft driver.

Still, most (all?) SSDs should do their own garbage by collection now.


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## EarthDog (Feb 4, 2020)

ShrimpBrime said:


> SSD review would be the go to place for answers with Trim on Raid.
> As far as I know, raid and trim just doesnt work. Raid 0 1 or 5.
> 
> A read feom 2010, not sure if it applies today with windoors 10th.
> ...


That article is from 2010 (as you said). Please read the link I provided from 2012 (says its supported on Intel chipsets at that point). On top of that, it has been baked into W8.1+/OSs I thought. 

EDIT: I'm not sure what exactly is what. I know R0 is supported, I thought R1 as well for Intel with HEDT needing the vroc key to unlock it. Not sure on AMD. The OPs system is odd. not sure why the drives aren't recognized as SSDs.


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## phill (Feb 4, 2020)

I don't honestly believe I've ever looked into TRIM on any of my systems, raid or non raid....  

That said if I was using raid, I'd probably use a raid card if I'm honest not on board unless it was something special


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## EarthDog (Feb 4, 2020)

Also...









						Ask Ars: “My SSD does garbage collection, so I don’t need TRIM… right?”
					

Modern SSD controllers are super-smart, but using TRIM is still a good idea.




					arstechnica.com
				






> TRIM isn’t magical, and you don’t have to have it. Modern SSDs with garbage collection will work fine without it (and most SSD OEMs have utilities available to "refresh" SSDs that are being used in non-TRIM environments). Indeed, if you’re adding a third-party SSD to a Mac, you won’t be able to enable TRIM support without loading some old and insecure kernel extensions—don’t do this, because although TRIM makes a difference in reducing write amplification and extending the life and performance of an SSD, it’s not worth the barn-sized security holes you have to open up in order to get it.
> 
> So, always use TRIM if you can. It will make your SSD’s garbage collection work a lot better. But if you find yourself in a situation where TRIM isn’t available, don’t panic—it’s nice to have, but it isn’t a requirement.









Solaris17 said:


> but that is my haswell server. Not the PC in my specs.


To be clear, does "optimize" mean TRIM? I'm not sure specifically what windows does to optimize the drives. I'll jump on the TRIM wagon with you...I like to gamble.


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## cucker tarlson (Feb 4, 2020)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Trim is not supported by the operating system while running raid 0.


on amd maybe
on intel it is since z77


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## FordGT90Concept (Feb 4, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> To be clear, does "optimize" mean TRIM? I'm not sure specifically what windows does to optimize the drives. I'll jump on the TRIM wagon with you...I like to gamble.


Optimize + SSD = TRIM
Optimize + HDD = defragment

In general, RAID + TRIM = bad idea.  Only the controller knows what data can be garbage collected but where the SSD actually put that data is not likely to align with what the RAID controller knows.  Because of this, SDDs in RAID inevitably wear faster.  Maintaining the data in the RAID takes precedence over drive life.


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## Bronan (Feb 4, 2020)

lol first of all you should "ALLWAYS " keep a large partition unused on any ssd to keep it performing as you want hence SUPERFAST.
Every one of my 512 Gb ssd or larger i have in use has minimal 64Gb free partition space.
This makes it sure that i have enough space to get reassigned if a cell dies and keeps the performance as high as possible. In this way you prevent the performance from dropping down the drain.
When you do have filled your ssd(s) its time to clean the mess or start clearing unneeded games and programs.
But most of the people never do a clean of their OS, for example windows 10 creates a huge collection of garbage on your system. Each time you get an update its saved no matter if it ever is needed. 
so a proper cleaning of garbage is needed.
For those not knowing how todo this safely there are thousands of programs which can help with that ofcourse most of them paid 
Second intel does on support its own products or a limited amount of brands on raid systems and most is only indeed supported on the HEDT motherboards or server boards and your post mentions exactly that.
If you use drivers from amd or whatever you get zer0 support on raid in most cases.
intel is fiercely protecting its own products and want you to use only those products they accept.
My guess is that these few payed for usage in intel its sub systems.
So the flaw is you did not over provision the drive(s) and if you did you assigned way too little space.
Again my advice move stuff over to a hdd every cheap usb one will do for that task and backup stuff on that so you can clear diskspace.


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## ShrimpBrime (Feb 4, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> That article is from 2010 (as you said). Please read the link I provided from 2012 (says its supported on Intel chipsets at that point). On top of that, it has been baked into W8.1+/OSs I thought.
> 
> EDIT: I'm not sure what exactly is what. I know R0 is supported, I thought R1 as well for Intel with HEDT needing the vroc key to unlock it. Not sure on AMD. The OPs system is odd. not sure why the drives aren't recognized as SSDs.



Just because something is "supported" doesn't mean it functions correctly.


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## notb (Feb 4, 2020)

damric said:


> Aren't NVMe drives fast enough?


1. RAID is primarily about redundancy. Improved performance is a nice side effect.
2. SATA/SAS SSDs exist.
3. No, NVMe drives aren't fast enough.


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## damric (Feb 4, 2020)

Wasn't there something last year to do with BIOS ROM size on some of the older AM4 motherboards that they ditched a lot of the RAID capability in favor of more new CPU support?


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## Bronan (Feb 4, 2020)

notb said:


> 1. RAID is primarily about redundancy. Improved performance is a nice side effect.
> 2. SATA/SAS SSDs exist.
> 3. No, NVMe drives aren't fast enough.



Raid is and was very much also about performance, especially in the old days.
Nothing could beat the sas/scsi raid boxes i used at my work. In this time that people where struggling with slow peforming sata1 and sata2.
And in many systems you'll find loads of raid 50 or 60 systems which do perform very well.
However the fastest is still using raid 0 and that i allways have used if enormous speed was needed.
But we all know/knew the risc, you play with fire if it goes wrong. So not having multiple backups of files is loosing everything in almost every case raid 0 fails.
I actually use a raid0 with 3 nvme ssds for my games and have them all stored on my nas in case the raid0 will fail.
That means that safes gets copied almost every half hour to the nas as well or are with some old disk tricks safed on a 5th ssd which is only for data which i never want to loose.
And even that gets saved every half hour to the nas


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## ShrimpBrime (Feb 4, 2020)

Haven't run Raid 0 in quite a long time. Getting an itch for it now.

Thanks guys...... 



damric said:


> Wasn't there something last year to do with BIOS ROM size on some of the older AM4 motherboards that they ditched a lot of the RAID capability in favor of more new CPU support?



I do recall reading something about this, probably late 2017 early 18, but it was Raid 5 I believe it was.


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## EarthDog (Feb 4, 2020)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Just because something is "supported" doesn't mean it functions correctly.


Agreed. But it works.


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## newtekie1 (Feb 4, 2020)

Solaris17 said:


> but that is my haswell server. Not the PC in my specs.



Yeah, I've put together several mainstream Intel systems over the years with RAID1 SSDs on the Intel chipset, and they all support TRIM.



cucker tarlson said:


> @newtekie1 can you trim manually ?



No.



yakk said:


> I believe AMD supports Trim on Raid starting with their chipset driver version 17.10. Not necessarily the standard Microsoft driver.



I've read that too, it's simply not true.  I've tried the last 3 latest drivers, none recognize the RAID array as an SSD and enable TRIM.



yakk said:


> Still, most (all?) SSDs should do their own garbage by collection now.



The onboard garbage collection on most SSDs isn't really that great.  Without TRIM, garbage collection is slow and inefficient.  Which is fine in a storage drive, but not an OS drive that is written to all the time.

I guess part of the issue is my fault for picking smaller 120GB SSDs.  I guess as a temporary solution I'll pick up some larger drives, so there is more free space and the writes don't degrade like they have.


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## Super XP (Feb 4, 2020)

Remove your RAID 1 or any RAID and run them as single drives, that way they last longer. 
Though I understand the reason for RAID 1, as you want to ensure you protect your data just in case of a failure.


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## Aquinus (Feb 4, 2020)

That's unfortunate. fstrim runs on my machine every Monday. I know because I can feel how slow the machine gets when I first boot it.


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## notb (Feb 5, 2020)

Bronan said:


> Raid is and was very much also about performance, especially in the old days.


On a PC/workstation - yes.
In a standard server scenario, where there are many clients - not so much.
If N clients want to access different data and this data is spread randomly across M drives - where N≫M - RAID performance gains become a lot less significant. 

Fault tolerance is always about keeping more than 1 copy of the data.
RAID is not the only way, but it's the only way that always works - regardless of what program you're running.

That's why I said redundancy is a primary feature of RAID. It's also the reason why we give w f... to invent all the >0 levels.


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## Solaris17 (Feb 5, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> To be clear, does "optimize" mean TRIM? I'm not sure specifically what windows does to optimize the drives. I'll jump on the TRIM wagon with you...I like to gamble.



Yes, it does. No need to jump on the "bandwagon" if you don't want too though. I took that SS of a machine thats like 7 years old before I left for work. If optimizing SSDs in RAID1 for you guys dont work on intel then idk what to tell you.



			works on my machine - Google Search
		










						Windows 10 how often do you defrag or should defrag
					

So how do I know if windows is doing defrag scan or not?  And how do I know if it is turn on or off?    Some  people say to defrag SSD some say not to defrag SSD that it could damage SSD   You can clearly see in the screen shots that others have posted when the last run time was.  If you let...




					www.techpowerup.com


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## newtekie1 (Feb 5, 2020)

Super XP said:


> Remove your RAID 1 or any RAID and run them as single drives, that way they last longer.



Well, when the OS drive fails, you can come resetup the OS and all the software installed on it.


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## freeagent (Feb 5, 2020)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Haven't run Raid 0 in quite a long time. Getting an itch for it now.
> 
> Thanks guys......
> 
> ...




The last time I ran raid 0 was with 3x Raptor 150s, and it was good.. Last summer I spotted some Intel ssds that were 52% off at Newegg so I had to grab a couple. They rip


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## Super XP (Feb 5, 2020)

newtekie1 said:


> Well, when the OS drive fails, you can come resetup the OS and all the software installed on it.


Why would the OS fail? Just curious,  or just install the OS on mechanical hybrid drives, the ones with very large internal caches that way you can Raid 1 them with no issues.


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## moproblems99 (Feb 5, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> had 850 pro in hardware raid0 on z97 and trim worked by default.


There is a difference between 0 and 1.  The significant difference is that raid0 is supported.  Raid1 is not.  You had raid0.  The op is using raid1.



notb said:


> 1. RAID is primarily about redundancy. Improved performance is a nice side effect.



If you are using a flavor of 1 or 5.  Raid 0 is all about performance.


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## cucker tarlson (Feb 5, 2020)

Super XP said:


> Why would the OS fail? Just curious,  or just install the OS on mechanical hybrid drives, the ones with very large internal caches that way you can Raid 1 them with no issues.


hybrid drives need trimming that ssd portion too even more

imo best way is to use achi mode on a single drive and just clone it


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## Space Lynx (Feb 5, 2020)

newtekie1 said:


> Well, when the OS drive fails, you can come resetup the OS and all the software installed on it.




I used to say things like, come on it doesn't take that long for a clean install these days, especially since we both have 1 gig download. As someone who does clean installs every 3 months though for several years, now it's down to 6 months well for last year or so, and now it's down to like once a year or so... cause you are right, lol

I was considering it again recently, and I was just like eh... it's like 3-4 hours of work, really even longer since I have some micromanagement like steam settings in-game fps turned on, etc etc etc. 

I still intend to do clean install once a year though, 18 months at most, with frequent cloud and offline/unplugged hard drive backups of my most important stuff.


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## cucker tarlson (Feb 5, 2020)

Why dont you just make a fresh windows installation clone on a USB stick or the second drive for that matter.


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## kapone32 (Feb 5, 2020)

Could it be that the M2 drives on X470 are separated between the CPU and chipset that RAID1 is not supported for TRIM? I have no idea just asking. Personally I have always ran RAID 0 arrays.


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## EarthDog (Feb 5, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> I used to say things like, come on it doesn't take that long for a clean install these days, especially since we both have 1 gig download. As someone who does clean installs every 3 months though for several years, now it's down to 6 months well for last year or so, and now it's down to like once a year or so... cause you are right, lol
> 
> I was considering it again recently, and I was just like eh... it's like 3-4 hours of work, really even longer since I have some micromanagement like steam settings in-game fps turned on, etc etc etc.
> 
> I still intend to do clean install once a year though, 18 months at most, with frequent cloud and offline/unplugged hard drive backups of my most important stuff.


3-4 hours? I'm up in 30 mins. 20 of that is getting my image back on the drive, the other 10 maybe for updating programs...games on a different drive, etc...

...the importance of a good backup and image is critical just for times like these. My current image is a month old (along with my first fully setup image which is static). I think I missed a gpuz and cpuz update. 



newtekie1 said:


> Well, when the OS drive fails, you can come resetup the OS and all the software installed on it.


take a backup/image next time and restore from it.


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## Space Lynx (Feb 5, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> 3-4 hours? I'm up in 30 mins. 20 of that is getting my image back on the drive, the other 10 maybe for updating programs...games on a different drive, etc...
> 
> ...the importance of a good backup and image is critical just for times like these. My current image is a month old (along with my first fully setup image which is static). I think I missed a gpuz and cpuz update.
> 
> take a backup/image next time and restore from it.



I can do a basic clean install in around 30 minutes, but I have a lot of side stuff I always end up doing, I'd say 20 programs in total, msi afterburner, get my OC back on, toastyx cru, etc etc it adds up pretty quick


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## EarthDog (Feb 5, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> I can do a basic clean install in around 30 minutes, but I have a lot of side stuff I always end up doing, I'd say 20 programs in total, msi afterburner, get my OC back on, toastyx cru, etc etc it adds up pretty quick


Which is why an image with all of that resolves those issues. 

My basic image has all the windows updates and applications/programs i use already installed. When everything is installed and running for the first time BASE IMAGE. Then I reimage monthly. So the most I lose is ~30 days worth of whatever (updates).


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## Space Lynx (Feb 5, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Which is why an image with all of that resolves those issues.
> 
> My basic image has all the applications/programs i use already installed. When everything is installed and running for the first time BASE IMAGE. Then I reimage monthly. So the most I lost is ~30 days worth of whatever.



I prefer a pure clean install just for the sake of it. Its weird habit


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## R-T-B (Feb 5, 2020)

damric said:


> Isn't the automatic garbage collection good enough?



Trim tells the garbage collection what to collect...  it's kind of the whole point.

It will work without it, yes.  But basically in a far less educated way.


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## EarthDog (Feb 5, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> I prefer a pure clean install just for the sake of it. Its weird habit


It's your time. 

I do that if I ever need to (maybe with old windows version to new)... I stopped reinstalling (clean) annually or whatever as it just turns in to a waste of time for me. The process I have worked well for the last several years.

Anyway, this isn't really helping the OP so I digress.



R-T-B said:


> Trim tells the garbage collection what to collect...  it's kind of the whole point.
> 
> It will work without it, yes.  But basically in a far less educated way.


Yep!


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## Super XP (Feb 5, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> 3-4 hours? I'm up in 30 mins. 20 of that is getting my image back on the drive, the other 10 maybe for updating programs...games on a different drive, etc...
> 
> ...the importance of a good backup and image is critical just for times like these. My current image is a month old (along with my first fully setup image which is static). I think I missed a gpuz and cpuz update.
> 
> take a backup/image next time and restore from it.


A backup image meaning you don't need your USB Windows 10 stick?


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## newtekie1 (Feb 5, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> take a backup/image next time and restore from it.



It's more important that I have near 0 down time, which is why I run RAID1.  I have an image of the OS drive if I need it.


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## EarthDog (Feb 5, 2020)

Super XP said:


> A backup image meaning you don't need your USB Windows 10 stick?


Correct.


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## Super XP (Feb 5, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Correct.


Oh OK. Interesting,  I've always did a fresh install usually when adding new components like a CPU or Mobo or GPU. Though I did recover with am image I never thought I had years ago. Windows must have back up the OS for me without me knowing.


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## EarthDog (Feb 5, 2020)

Super XP said:


> Oh OK. Interesting,  I've always did a fresh install usually when adding new components like a CPU or Mobo or GPU. Though I did recover with am image I never thought I had years ago. Windows must have back up the OS for me without me knowing.


This is the last I will say OT (sorry newtekie)...

You do not need to reinstall your OS for a new CPU, Mobo, or GPU... especially a CPU or GPU. I can see why with a motherboard (especially when going Intel to AMD - it is just cleaner), but, I have had plenty of OS's carry over from old Intel/AMD to new(er) Intel/AMD.


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## R-T-B (Feb 5, 2020)

newtekie1 said:


> It's more important that I have near 0 down time, which is why I run RAID1.  I have an image of the OS drive if I need it.



Just FYI, Windows seeing a volume as HDD sets a "no trim" mode flag that won't clear automatically even if you do manage to get proper trim support working.

There is an fsutil command to enable trim in that instance.  Google is your friend here.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 5, 2020)

R-T-B said:


> Just FYI, Windows seeing a volume as HDD sets a "no trim" mode flag that won't clear automatically even if you do manage to get proper trim support working.
> 
> There is an fsutil command to enable trim in that instance.  Google is your friend here.



I remember having to set a certain windows cpu awareness in XP for acpi/apic


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## suraswami (Feb 5, 2020)

I am using Windows software RAID on my Home Hyper-V Windows 2016 server which has 4 x 300 GB Intel Enterprise class SSDs in RAID 0 on an AMD 970 chipset board.  Trim works fine.  From speed perspective I didn't see any difference going with AMD RAID or Windows RAID.  Glad I went this route.

Earlier I tried with Stand alone SAS Hardware RAID card, Windows did not see the drives as SSDs, so TRIM will not work, it did old fashioned HDD defrag.

Not sure if this is relevant but thought I will share my experience.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 5, 2020)

suraswami said:


> I am using Windows software RAID on my Home Hyper-V Windows 2016 server which has 4 x 300 GB Intel Enterprise class SSDs in RAID 0 on an AMD 970 chipset board.  Trim works fine.  From speed perspective I didn't see any difference going with AMD RAID or Windows RAID.  Glad I went this route.
> 
> Earlier I tried with Stand alone SAS Hardware RAID card, Windows did not see the drives as SSDs, so TRIM will not work, it did old fashioned HDD defrag.
> 
> Not sure if this is relevant but thought I will share my experience.



Sounds like a windows problem


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## suraswami (Feb 5, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Sounds like a windows problem



to me it sounds like Hardware + Driver problem, if the device is presented as regular storage, windows will not know what it is.


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## cucker tarlson (Feb 5, 2020)

suraswami said:


> to me it sounds like Hardware + Driver problem, if the device is presented as regular storage, windows will not know what it is.


driver most likely,or bios


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## newtekie1 (Feb 12, 2020)

R-T-B said:


> There is an fsutil command to enable trim in that instance. Google is your friend here.



I've already looking into that, TRIM is enabled according to fsutil.  I've also tried running the Winsat commands to test drive speed, and while the read speed is clearly that of an SSD, and it is giving it a score over 7 every time I run it(I believe HDDs max out at 5.9), it still won't allow TRIM on the drive.  Which leads me to believe that the AMD drive is just not reporting that the "drive" supports TRIM.

And just to make sure I wasn't going crazy, I hopped onto one of my Intel machines that have a SSD RAID1 setup and confirmed that it does in fact support TRIM:


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## R-T-B (Feb 12, 2020)

newtekie1 said:


> I've already looking into that, TRIM is enabled according to fsutil.  I've also tried running the Winsat commands to test drive speed, and while the read speed is clearly that of an SSD, and it is giving it a score over 7 every time I run it(I believe HDDs max out at 5.9), it still won't allow TRIM on the drive.  Which leads me to believe that the AMD drive is just not reporting that the "drive" supports TRIM.
> 
> And just to make sure I wasn't going crazy, I hopped onto one of my Intel machines that have a SSD RAID1 setup and confirmed that it does in fact support TRIM:
> View attachment 144584



Cool, just was hopping over the basics in case you missed one.  Sadly it does look like an implementation issue, either by mobo vendor or AMD.  Quite irritating either way.


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## newtekie1 (Feb 16, 2020)

Well I have to give up on the failed experiment that was running RAID on an AMD chipset.  The write speeds on the RAID1 array the OS was installed on had dropped to 10MB/s for sequential writes with random writes were under 1MB/s.  Plus, the 1TB NVMe SSD had dropped to write speeds below 100MB/s.

And oh my was switching back from RAID to just a single drive a whole new can of worms thanks to AMD's horrible drivers.  I was hoping it would just be as easy as cloning the OS drive from the RAID array to a single SSD using a bootable USB. Then changing the SATA controller in the BIOS from RAID to AHCI and disable the NVMe RAID option.  Well, that half worked.  The OS booted off the single SSD just fine, but my NVMe drive was absolutely no where to be found in Windows.  It's not in Disk Management, it's not in Device Manager, it's no where.  But it's definitely being detected in the BIOS.  I uninstalled everything AMD related I could find, re-installed the normal AMD Chipset drivers, no NVMe drive. So now I get to figure out why the NVMe drive is not showing up in Windows.

The good news is the single OS SSD is now showing up in Windows as an SSD with TRIM support.  So kind of a win.  But I'm getting really frustrated with AMD right now...


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