# Throttlestop undervolting



## crazydawid (May 26, 2015)

Hey !
I have a question guys, i want to undervolt my CPU, shoud i do the adaptive or static option in throttlestop?
Its 4710HQ in Lenovo y50.


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## Toothless (May 26, 2015)

Just tweak the offset a little bit in the BIOS if you can, otherwise I'd think adaptive would work as long as it's stable.


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## unclewebb (May 26, 2015)

In a laptop, definitely stick with Adaptive voltage.  With a 4710HQ, you can then use a negative CPU offset voltage of approximately -50 mV.  If you get a BSOD, then you will have to use less offset voltage.  If your laptop is 100% stable when lightly loaded then you can probably get away with using some more offset voltage.  -50 mV is a good place to start testing.  You can also use the same on the CPU cache.  Reducing voltage will reduce power consumption.  On these CPUs that are TDP limited to 47 Watts, that can increase performance.

The biggest problem with the Y50 is that Intel Turbo Boost is disabled soon after you start gaming.  Intel XTU does not have any options to fix that problem which is common to the Lenovo Y50 and Y510P so for maximum performance, using ThrottleStop is a must.  Check off the Set Multiplier option and set that to the maximum, clear the BD PROCHOT box and click on the Turn On button so your 4710HQ can run at its full Intel rated speed.

*ThrottleStop 8.00 beta 2*
https://www.sendspace.com/file/b4oure
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0dpSo9k93jDTE1fcHNtbUMwdGc/view?usp=sharing


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## crazydawid (May 27, 2015)

Im using throttlestop from 1st day with this laptop  Im using TS 8.0 to set adaptive offset to -95mV (95 is stable everywhere, -96 and more is stable in stres test, but crash in games, strange)
I will try with catche then 

Last one question, is there any performance loos coming from this?


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## AsRock (May 27, 2015)

As the system is needs more power when gaming. either stop gaming or be less restrictive on the voltage.


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## crazydawid (May 27, 2015)

Yea but my CPU have really high temps, so im trying to get rid of them somehow.
I just repasted it and trying to underwolt now.


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## AsRock (May 28, 2015)

Maybe some thing like this, or one with one large fan. Other from that make sure all vents are dust free with some compressed air though the vents even more so were the heat is ejected.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...m_re=laptop_cooler-_-9SIA7M02N61765-_-Product

Other from that you might be able to turn turbo of or what ever it's called in the bios.


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## unclewebb (May 28, 2015)

crazydawid said:


> Last one question, is there any performance loss coming from this?



There is no performance loss when you reduce the CPU voltage.  People have been doing this for years on their Intel Core 2 laptops and now you can do the same thing with the 4th Gen Core i laptops.  On the 4710HQ, the amount of turbo boost or the speed of your CPU is limited by power consumption.  If you can find a way to reduce power consumption, this can actually increase performance.  An offset of -95 mV is excellent.  Reducing the cache voltage is just as important as reducing the CPU core voltage.  As long as your CPU is stable, performance will increase or your laptop will run cooler.  Both are good reasons to under volt a laptop CPU.


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## crazydawid (May 28, 2015)

I got -95mV on both core and cache, stable, replaced thermal paste yesterday (i used MX-2, it have preatty good results on tests)
Im using cooling pad from 1st day, but i think i need to get better, more powerfull one.
Lets see how the temps will go now, becouse before was terrible, but depending on game.
Company Of heroes 2 run at max 79 degre, but Divinity Original Sin go all way up to 88 - 90, whitch is in my book a bit too mutch.

I will post back with reasults


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## crazydawid (May 28, 2015)

Allright, so with new paste, cooling pad, and underwolting its still bad...
Roughly 1 degre diference in max temp...
Any other idea guys?
Laptop is clean inside, no dust and stuff...


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## P4-630 (May 28, 2015)

Probably a poor design in cooling with your laptop model, but 87 degrees is still safe for that processor.


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## unclewebb (May 28, 2015)

As long as your CPU is not thermal throttling, there is no need to worry about its core temperature.  Intel has set the thermal throttling temperature to 100°C for the 4710HQ.  This is the point where the CPU will have reached its "maximum safe operating temperature".  I know that seems like a big number and it worries most users but why?  Intel is not in the business to lose money.  If high temperatures was causing their CPUs to fail, it would be simple for them to lower the throttling temperature but they are confident that their CPUs will survive for the long term.  Intel sets the thermal shutdown temperature to approximately 130°C.  You can play your games with no worries.


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## AsRock (May 28, 2015)

unclewebb said:


> As long as your CPU is not thermal throttling, there is no need to worry about its core temperature.  Intel has set the thermal throttling temperature to 100°C for the 4710HQ.  This is the point where the CPU will have reached its "maximum safe operating temperature".  I know that seems like a big number and it worries most users but why?  Intel is not in the business to lose money.  If high temperatures was causing their CPUs to fail, it would be simple for them to lower the throttling temperature but they are confident that their CPUs will survive for the long term.  Intel sets the thermal shutdown temperature to approximately 130°C.  You can play your games with no worries.




True, but not every thing can take 100c  i bet, in fact i fixed a DELL 1764 as the keyboard stopped working which i found the thin clip that holds the ribbon had started to warp.


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## unclewebb (May 28, 2015)

If you are worried about high temps and your laptop melting, there are always ways to improve things like this mod.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/lenovo-y50-cooling-mod-10c.772029/


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## crazydawid (Jun 4, 2015)

Hm, is there any point toi mess around with Turbo boost power max (47,000W) and Turbo boost short pwer max (58,750W)?


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## unclewebb (Jun 4, 2015)

The cooling in most laptops is barely adequate.  You are concerned about your high temperatures so trying to make your CPU run at a higher power limit will only increase your CPU temperature.  I would leave the turbo power limits at their default settings of 47 W and 58.750 W.


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## crazydawid (Jun 4, 2015)

I was thinking about lowering them, not making this grill even hotter 
I uderwolted core by -95 and catche -100 and still...:






I really loosing hope now...

Thats underwolted, with cooling pad and fresh thermal paste...


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## unclewebb (Jun 4, 2015)

Why are you losing hope?  Your CPU is running at a safe temperature.  That's not my opinion, that's according to Intel.  Their new mobile CPUs are designed to run at these temperatures so stop worrying about it.

You can lower your power limits if you like and this will make your CPU run slower and cooler.  That is your decision.  I like running my Lenovo Y510P at its full Intel rated speed.

BTW, the core temperatures reported by ThrottleStop are as accurate as any other program and if you click on the ThrottleStop - More Data option, the ThrottleStop reported temperatures are more accurate than any other program.  More Data tells ThrottleStop to sample the temperature sensor way more often than any other program.  In your screenshot, ThrottleStop is showing a peak core temperature of 91ºC.  That other program you are using only shows 90ºC.


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## crazydawid (Jun 4, 2015)

And what are Your temps while running some CPU demanding games in Y510P?
I dont know is it normal, but my laptop is getting 75 degres while surfing internet in google chrome...


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## unclewebb (Jun 4, 2015)

High temperatures are normal.  Intel encourages this.  They encourage laptop manufacturers to use slow fan speeds so their laptops are reasonably quiet.  Intel does long term testing of their CPUs at some very high temperatures to make sure that they are reliable for the short term as well as the long term.  

For comparison, I am getting about 40ºC while writing this in Google Chrome.  Use the Task Manager and see what is running on your computer in the background. 






A low C0% number is what you should be seeing.  If it is higher than 1.0% at idle, start looking for what crap is running in the background on your computer.

Perhaps the repaste job you did was not that great.  I have never repasted my computer.  Make sure the heatsink is making firm contact with your CPU.  You might have to re-engineer this.  Find a way to tighten it up if it is not making firm contact.


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## crazydawid (Jun 4, 2015)

Temps were the same before repasting, so its more like nothing changed 
Hm, my C0% numbers are high, what can cause that?
Damn, I woud be so happu with max temps like Yours...


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## unclewebb (Jun 5, 2015)

The Voltage ID your picture shows is WAY too high.  Check out my screenshot.  A VID of 1.04 to 1.05 vs 1.17 makes a big difference, especially when your CPU is under load.

Your package power when idle is also almost 10 Watts higher.  Are all of your C States enabled?  Post a screenshot of that window.

C0% of 1.6 is not horrible.  On the Task Manager - Details tab, click on the CPU heading to organize that column by CPU percent.  

The biggest problem is voltage.  Post a picture of the FIVR window.  Dumb question but did you use a positive or negative offset voltage?  Obviously you should be using negative offset but double check that to make sure.


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## crazydawid (Jun 5, 2015)

Its negative offset on both 






What might be the reason of high voltage?


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## unclewebb (Jun 5, 2015)

I hate to say this but the reason your VID is so high is because your 4710HQ is probably not one of Intel's best HQ processors.

At Intel it is all about yield.  The more CPUs they sell, the more money they make.  Their CPUs are binned based on voltage and various other characteristics.  If a CPU can run reliably at 3500 MHz at low voltage, those CPU cores can be sold for more money as higher end models.  My 4700MQ probably could have been sold as a 4900MQ.  If there was a problem with the cache, it might have been reduced from 8MB to 6MB so it ended up as a 4700MQ instead of a 4900MQ.  Sometimes it is just demand that dictates what model a CPU will become.  Intel sold way more 4700MQ models compared to the 4900MQ.  Even if all 8MB of cache that was originally on my CPU was good, if Intel needs more 4700MQ models, they disable 2MB of cache and away the CPU goes to market.

That is how Intel has always produced CPUs.  They play around with the CPU multiplier (MHz) and voltage and amount of cache and number of cores and then they sell as many CPUs as they can.  Later in the development cycle, CPUs that need a lot of voltage to be stable are sold.  Intel makes sure that their CPUs are 100% stable at their rated speed so no worries there but because your CPU needs lots of voltage for stability, it is naturally going to run hot and there is nothing you can do about that besides sell it.

Your first screenshot shows a VID of 1.1726 and your second screenshot shows a VID of 1.1055.  That's a huge difference.  From idle to full load the reported VID for my 4700MQ varies from about 1.035 to 1.045.

If you try to correct this problem by using a very high negative offset voltage, you will likely end up with light load BSOD issues because the C States are already designed to drop the the voltage when lightly loaded.

One thing that might work is you could set up a second profile in ThrotleStop with maybe a -150 mV offset.  You could set up a keyboard shortcut so you could switch to this lower voltage profile but only after you started gaming.  Use the ThrottleStop - Options - HotKeys feature for that purpose.  You might be able to get away with that and then before your game ends, set up another HotKey so you can switch back to your normal profile.  Beyond that, there is not much you can do.  High voltage = high heat, especially when loaded.


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## OneMoar (Jun 5, 2015)

unclewebb said:


> I hate to say this but the reason your VID is so high is because your 4710HQ is probably not one of Intel's best HQ processors.
> 
> At Intel it is all about yield.  The more CPUs they sell, the more money they make.  Their CPUs are binned based on voltage and various other characteristics.  If a CPU can run reliably at 3500 MHz at low voltage, those CPU cores can be sold for more money as higher end models.  My 4700MQ probably could have been sold as a 4900MQ.  If there was a problem with the cache, it might have been reduced from 8MB to 6MB so it ended up as a 4700MQ instead of a 4900MQ.  Sometimes it is just demand that dictates what model a CPU will become.  Intel sold way more 4700MQ models compared to the 4900MQ.  Even if all 8MB of cache that was originally on my CPU was good, if Intel needs more 4700MQ models, they disable 2MB of cache and away the CPU goes to market.
> 
> ...


what about some kind of adaptive load-based offset routine  ?


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## BiggieShady (Jun 5, 2015)

Don't forget to look in event viewer for WHEA hardware error correction events ... if there are any recent ones, you undervolted a bit too much


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## crazydawid (Jun 5, 2015)

But in this case i think, i can demand change of the motherboard (its still for over 8 menths on warranty)


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## OneMoar (Jun 5, 2015)

crazydawid said:


> But in this case i think, i can demand change of the motherboard (its still for over 8 menths on warranty)


nope
its operating within spec


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## crazydawid (Jun 5, 2015)

Allright, i think i found underwolting that help a lot.
I did also underclock, becouse when all core are used they are 33x anyways and i noticed that the one that sometimes go to 35 heat the most (captain obvious)
200 Mhz is not a big thing for games i think (am i right ?) with this alredy not bad CPU.






I will do some more testing on those settings and post back more info, but so far it looks great, in games where i was getting over 90 degrees, now its 76-79.


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## crazydawid (Jun 6, 2015)

@1-update
It helped in games that are not really good in terms of using multi cores, in other games temps are the same.
How it is possible, that so mutch less voltage in the processor gives the same heat output o.0?


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## xfia (Jun 6, 2015)

its a fast little cpu.. so you probably wont notice the 200mhz unless maybe a game is really heavy on 1 core but if the heat wont change then why not default?  

the heat not changing is just the so so design.. its like most acer and dell laptops. they do what you want and nice for the most part but not that top tier engineering like msi and asus put on the table for laptops at a bit of a premium. 

http://gaming.msi.com/features/notebook
check it out^ turboboost 3 was designed for optimal cooling with a bit of overclocking headroom to spare.


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## P4-630 (Jun 6, 2015)

xfia said:


> http://gaming.msi.com/features/notebook
> check it out^ turboboost 3 was designed for optimal cooling with a bit of overclocking headroom to spare.



Oh yeah that jet engine 









Lucky I bought a quiet well cooled Asus G750JX


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## xfia (Jun 6, 2015)

3 not 2 and who knows what has been done to that thing but yeah those rpm's will ramp up on those quality high cfm fans when needed.. seems like they thought about that with on the fly performance modes.


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## P4-630 (Jun 6, 2015)

xfia said:


> 3 not 2 and who knows what has been done to that thing but yeah those rpm's will ramp up on those quality high cfm fans when needed.. seems like they thought about that with on the fly performance modes.



I know, could not find 3, but I think there is not a big difference in noise.


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## crazydawid (Jun 7, 2015)

I have no idea how that connects with my topic.


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## xfia (Jun 7, 2015)

crazydawid said:


> I have no idea how that connects with my topic.



the heat not changing is just the so so design.. its like most acer and dell laptops. they do what you want and nice for the most part but not that top tier engineering like msi and asus put on the table for laptops at a bit of a premium.

this^^^ i would say it might be a little different if you had the newest maxwell and intel package from lenova being more efficient and probably easier to cool while heavy gaming for something equal like 960m.


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## crazydawid (Jun 7, 2015)

@up
My 860M 4GB maxwell is very cold, (about 70 in long gaming) the CPU is the problem, so that woud change nothing, did You read the topic?


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## xfia (Jun 7, 2015)

just listen to what people are trying to tell you 

there is nothing wrong it and there is automatic safety features to protect it

what should that tell you about the the laptops cooling design if your sure you did the thermal paste right and fans are spinning fine? 

your gpu is keplar..  they reduced several resources and increased clock rates giving them similar less power hungry gpu's

and yeah intels new laptop cpu's are more efficient and sit on the new 14nm process

less power just means less heat and thats good for mobile devices


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## P4-630 (Jun 7, 2015)

xfia said:


> just listen to what people are trying to tell you
> 
> there is nothing wrong it and there is automatic safety features to protect it
> 
> ...



GTX860M  (about 60 watts)
"_It is one of the first cards based on Nvidia's new Maxwell architecture (GM107 chip), but is still manufactured in 28 nm._"

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-860M.107794.0.html


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## xfia (Jun 7, 2015)

hmm i read it a lil different as being the same basic chip and being part of the kepler 600 series


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## crazydawid (Jun 7, 2015)

There is 860M kepler with 2GB vRam, mine is 4GB vRam Maxwell... There is 2 version of that card.


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## OneMoar (Jun 7, 2015)

what you want is not possible
enough said
can we lock this thread now


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