# I'm going to try Windows Vista again.



## zekrahminator (Jun 24, 2006)

Yeah, subject line says all...but seriously. Last time I tried Vista, it was very nice, but I wanted to go back to XP and it wouldn't let me. So I booted into linux (Gparted liveCD.) and deleted the Vista partition . Anyways, so I don't have to go through THAT again, I would like to know a couple things about Vista. I'll just list them...1- How do I enable the run command (like start-run.)? 2- How do I go about uninstalling Vista without the help of linux? 3- How do I dual-boot XP and Vista? Thanks guys.


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## zekrahminator (Jun 24, 2006)

Bump.


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## strick94u (Jun 24, 2006)

I dont like the way Microsoft does their Beta testing after my last experiance with the xp beta screw them let them messup someone else's box. good luck with your project but I would think there is no way xp/vista will dual boot just becuase they want your whole pc your 200 dollars and your soul


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## zekrahminator (Jun 24, 2006)

I'm betting a quick "fixboot" on the XP CD will work just fine, and if it doesn't? Linux to the rescue . I'll certainly have fun figuring out how to get everything to work, I was just hoping for some pointers. 64% done downloading the 64bit version right now. Oh yeah and I think Microsoft is just in it for the money.


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## i_am_mustang_man (Jun 24, 2006)

hrm... what i might recommend is maybe loading two different harddrives, one with xp, one with vista.  you should be able to select which one to boot off in bios.  i haven't been able to get it both to work on one drive (multi partitions, etc).  this works, but i'm using ide and cable select for drive priority, so maybe SATA is different, but i don't think so.    good luck!


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## strick94u (Jun 24, 2006)

or use 2 computers and just hit the on button  
sorry sometimes I'm a dip


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## zekrahminator (Jun 24, 2006)

i_am_mustang_man said:
			
		

> hrm... what i might recommend is maybe loading two different harddrives, one with xp, one with vista.  you should be able to select which one to boot off in bios.  i haven't been able to get it both to work on one drive (multi partitions, etc).  this works, but i'm using ide and cable select for drive priority, so maybe SATA is different, but i don't think so.    good luck!


You know, I had that exact same thought when I was deleting my Vista partition the last time . I downloaded the 64bit DVD no troubles (except for when I was coming out of standby, the download froze, but no biggie. All I had to do was restart download.), it's burned on a DVD, and I'll try it out soon. And after I install Vista I'm going to be running "fixboot" off of the XP CD . I'll let you know how this works out. Oh yeah and PVTCaboose1337, thank you so much for that Gparted link .


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## zekrahminator (Jun 24, 2006)

Okay, apparently the DVD I downloaded came with some missing files. Oh joy. I'm all out of DVD's and I have to download this thing AGAIN. I don't think that it's really worth it any more...oh well. I'll update this thread if I ever get Vista to run.


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## i_am_mustang_man (Jun 24, 2006)

that's a huge bummer!

a good idea to save DVDs i just started using after some iso's weren't downloaded correctly from certain places... is to use winrar (free version) and explore the iso and see if any files are 0kb in size.  if so, it probably won't work.  not true of all files tho, i dont' know what's on the vista one ( i figured this out after i installed it) but sometimes ini files are 0kb because they get data written into them once they transfer over.  why they don't have it create the file is beyond me, but a heads up!

or mounting the image of some dvd's (not vista prolly) will see if it at least autoruns!

on a side note, i think it's a gip to make people pay 6 bucks to beta test for them.  this is part of R&D, and microsoft can handle the money more than the bad feeling amongst us harder core computer users!


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## zekrahminator (Jun 24, 2006)

I got more DVD's! Now lets see if I can download all of the Vista beta 2 ISO before my router resets again . And then we'll see if it'll install. And if I'm lucky, I'll get to modify the bootloader so that I can dual-boot Vista and XP...in other words, I can keep myself occupied lol. Oh yeah and I got a very similar 3Dmark05 record, mustang_man...6889 on 605/605.


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## Jimmy 2004 (Jun 24, 2006)

Didn't like vista - not enought driver support so I could connect to my wireless network and the bootloader didn't display properly on my monitor. Looked nice though.


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## zekrahminator (Jun 25, 2006)

Vista x64 and firefox download manager don't like each other, and when I try to pause the download (solves the issue), I'm betting I lose some data. So I'm downloading the x86 version now. Should have better driver support anyways .


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## zekrahminator (Jun 25, 2006)

ULTRA EXTREME UPDATE: I not only got 32 Bit Windows Vista up and running, I am TRIPLE BOOTING! Windows Vista, Windows XP, and Windows 2000. I need linux lol...I'll set up drivers later tonight or tomorrow. I'm sleepy .


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## strick94u (Jun 25, 2006)

zekrahminator said:
			
		

> ULTRA EXTREME UPDATE: I not only got 32 Bit Windows Vista up and running, I am TRIPLE BOOTING! Windows Vista, Windows XP, and Windows 2000. I need linux lol...I'll set up drivers later tonight or tomorrow. I'm sleepy .


dude its obsessed people like you that keep this crazy world going  
remember to write it all down so we too can benifit from your pain


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## GLD (Jun 25, 2006)

IDK if this is relevant, but I noticed this link is no longer up on Microsoft, for a second choice in a free Vista compatible anti-virus program. It is free and good for a whole year, or basically the duration of the beta 2 Vista:   http://www3.ca.com/press/PressRelease.aspx?CID=88876 

Im trying out Vista beta 2 on a 32bit Athlon XP system with a 5200 ultra. It gives me the AERO and looks pretty sweet.


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## zekrahminator (Jun 25, 2006)

strick94u said:
			
		

> dude its obsessed people like you that keep this crazy world going
> remember to write it all down so we too can benifit from your pain


Of course lol. To get dual-boot going, you have to already be dual booting with XP and something else. That way, when Vista is installed and it modifies the bootloader, if will have to make room for whatever previous operating systems you have. Oh yeah and to get all your drivers to install...stick your driver CD in, try to install, watch the installation fail, close installer, windows will tell you "it didn't install right!" and prompt wheter you want to install using "reccomended settings." Click the reccomended settings, try again, and then you're done. If you have to, go into device manager and uninstall the hardware, reboot, and then install it when windows starts. Oh yeah and remember...the little power button in the start menu is NOT a "turn off" button...it's a sleep button. And Vista's sleep is a bit buggy, gave me quite a scare lol. It turned off my hard disks and left the rest of my system on . Oh yeah and to all you people who are saying Vista is going to suck...the only sucky part about it is that network setup is insanely hard (can't share files between Aegis and Darth Flatulence). But other then that and a few driver issues, everything is fine.


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## i_am_mustang_man (Jun 25, 2006)

congrats Zek!  I'm having the same issues with my wireless as Jimmy.  I have the drivers, but they don't work, and i haven't checked the web to find vista compatible drivers.

Inorder to dual boot, i just formatted a drive (I had an extra) and disconnected the others while i loaded vista.  Then, shut down, then plugged my other drives back in. I only dual boot, but it's cool 

sidenote/vista related:  i woke up this morning after having vista on all night, and turned on my monitor. OH CRAP! monitor blank!  quick look over to my debug LEDs on my mobo (first time used to diagnosis! woohoot!) and they read F1!  FF means normal, ie anything other than FF means  FUCK!  so i whip out my mobo manual to find out what the code means, flipping through pages so fast trying to figure out what this beta did to my super awesome computer that i live by!  just as i find that no code in the manual matches F1, and i feel about as bad as ever, i look up, and vista is resuming from sleep.  goddamnit.  i feel n00b3d.  not as h4X0R as i thought....

haha.  i think vista shouldn't have sleep be automatically set, is the main point of this story. haha


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## Jimmy 2004 (Jun 25, 2006)

i_am_mustang_man said:
			
		

> congrats Zek!  I'm having the same issues with my wireless as Jimmy.  I have the drivers, but they don't work, and i haven't checked the web to find vista compatible drivers.
> 
> Inorder to dual boot, i just formatted a drive (I had an extra) and disconnected the others while i loaded vista.  Then, shut down, then plugged my other drives back in. I only dual boot, but it's cool
> 
> ...



Lol, you should have tried moving the mouse first!


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## i_am_mustang_man (Jun 25, 2006)

Jimmy 2004 said:
			
		

> Lol, you should have tried moving the mouse first!



haha, i know!! 
i feel stupid, but not as stupid if vista beta had f'ed my machine!


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## Jimmy 2004 (Jun 25, 2006)

i_am_mustang_man said:
			
		

> haha, i know!!
> i feel stupid, but not as stupid if vista beta had f'ed my machine!



I know that feeling when you suddenly think your PC has died even thought you thought it was stable, only to find it was something very stupid. I expect we've all been there before.


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## zekrahminator (Jun 25, 2006)

Yeah, Vista kinda has its bugs...I tried pressing the button that looked like "off" (really was sleep.), and my hard drive shut off. The rest of my PC stayed on though . Gave me quite a scare lol.


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## zekrahminator (Jun 25, 2006)

My personal opinion on windows vista- Very pretty, however, it could certainly use some better driver support, I would love to install my programs WITHOUT betting a bluescreen, and I don't know why it won't auto-install my USB printer. Reccomended system requirements (according to me)- 1GB system memory, fast GPU with no less then 256MB graphics memory, a dual core processor, and a 20GB hard drive. Anything less then that, and games WILL NOT RUN.


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## Jimmy 2004 (Jun 25, 2006)

Dual Core?


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## zekrahminator (Jun 25, 2006)

Yeah, Vista is LOADED with background processes, and I think Vista actually knows how to use dual-core processors. You have one core to process all the OS stuff, and you have the other to process stuff like games. At least, it had BETTER be that way, I'm going to get myself an X2 in July or August.


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## zekrahminator (Jun 26, 2006)

Vista screenshot.


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## zekrahminator (Jun 26, 2006)

Update: I'd like to apologize to Microsoft for being so hasty. You might not need a dual core processor to run Vista well . Apparently Creative (who made my sound card) needs to work on their Vista drivers. I'm going to install UT2004 w/o sound driver installed. If it runs well, I'll buy an Audigy/ wait for Creative to get better drivers. If it doesn't, then, maybe it's a combination of bad drivers and a hippo of an OS.


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## zekrahminator (Jun 26, 2006)

Yeah, Creative definitely needs to work on their sound drivers, I uninstalled everything related to my sound card on Vista and everything works almost like XP (maybe even better, Vista DOES have DX10 .). I also reinstalled the latest ones off the website, and they're working. So yeah, I think I may not use XP for a long time . New reccomended system requirements according to me- 
3Ghz processor or AMD equivalent
1GB DDR400 RAM with CAS2.5 or less
80 GB SATA hard drive
Recent Intel/AMD motherboard (Socket T/939/M2)
Any high-end DX9 GPU
Soundcard made by anyone except for Creative . 
DVD-RW.


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## strick94u (Jun 27, 2006)

yup that system checker thing tell's the whole story very little of what I own did not require drivers from companys that have never gotten thier xp drivers right.Vista was a car in the late 80's early 90's that was a pile of crap made by mitisubishi for dodge


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## zekrahminator (Jun 27, 2006)

Alright, I think that Vista needs a little bit of help updating its own registry...I uninstall UT GOTY, and when I go to reinstall it, all the folders that were there before were there. That's probably also why I need admin permission twice to do a "file operation" (AKA empty the trash.), and I can't delete files that really aren't there. Oh well, I hope Microsoft fixes this before the final release...or maybe it will come in a service pack like everything in Windows XP . Edit: I think that it would be a bit easier for Microsoft if they just programmed Vista to upgrade the registry every "file operation" instead of "every few hours" lol. Or maybe it DOES upgrade the registry every file operation, but not every time I press the delete key counts as a file operation, confusing Vista. THAT would make sense...we'll see.


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## strick94u (Jun 27, 2006)

Went out tonight to see if anyone has a vista ready pc for sale hehe much to my non surprise 0 ............. have you got it to dual boot with linux yet?


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## zekrahminator (Jun 27, 2006)

I don't have a copy of linux to dual boot it with . I would love the opportunity to though...just need to move some partitions around with software I don't have . I'll let you know if I do, but right now, tri-booting Vista Beta 2, XP Home SP2, and 2000 Professional works fine.


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## Alec§taar (Jun 27, 2006)

zekrahminator said:
			
		

> I don't have a copy of linux to dual boot it with . I would love the opportunity to though...just need to move some partitions around with software I don't have . I'll let you know if I do, but right now, tri-booting Vista Beta 2, XP Home SP2, and 2000 Professional works fine.



Sounds like they stopped one of the "major complaints" I heard in last round's testers, of them being unable to "dual boot" even to OTHER Microsoft Windows NT-based OS!



* Good news - that's one they've GOT to attend to, & one of their "hallmark" features (almost tradition, if not so, since the DOS days)...

Overall, given your system specs? How does it perform??

APK

P.S.=> Can you play around with some of the colors, & perhaps the entire THEME used there? I liked the screenshot you did, & wonder - is their some "flexibility" there in the beta in regards to that part (colors/themes)?? 

Just curious!

I would like to see Explorer.exe in motion there for instance & maybe the control panel, albeit in a diff. theme if possible & if you don't mind - also, if possible?? One of those nifty new "alt+tab" Windows tiled if you would, that imo, looks WAY cool... tia! apk


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## Jimmy 2004 (Jun 27, 2006)

I'll give this one another try sometime to see if the bootloader is sorted...


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## zekrahminator (Jun 27, 2006)

Once I got my soundblaster drivers sorted out, I absolutely love the general experience of Vista. The operating system has almost infinite potential. The only problem is, it has a few registry bugs, so when I delete folders the system will still think they are there, and make me recreate them instead of just accepting that they are deleted...and Vista is a much better multitasker. There really is only one "Vista" theme, but you can play with the colors if you want. Given my system specs, Vista is a hog, but in a year, what's considered "high end" will be considered "mainstream", so I don't think Microsoft is asking too much. I'll have the alt-tab screenshot for you later.


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## Alec§taar (Jun 27, 2006)

zekrahminator said:
			
		

> Once I got my soundblaster drivers sorted out, I absolutely love the general experience of Vista. The operating system has almost infinite potential.



I got the word on soundblaster drivers from other threads here - good luck on that. What is happening to you that you do not like those?

(Pretty odd, because Creative Labs Soundblaster is like "THE" std. out there for sound, or it used to be... strange MS doesn't @ least have a 'generic' one that works!)



			
				zekrahminator said:
			
		

> The only problem is, it has a few registry bugs, so when I delete folders the system will still think they are there, and make me recreate them instead of just accepting that they are deleted...



NOW, that, sounds interesting and odd @ the same time! What folders, specifically? Maybe I can help here??



			
				zekrahminator said:
			
		

> and Vista is a much better multitasker.



Well, I know from readings about its architecture & changes MS is working on elsewhere (not here, up @ MS), that from this thread where folks are talking about L2 CPU onboard cache memory:

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?p=110968#post110968

That Microsoft has been working on API's that make multitasking better via working on HOW your CPU & OS coordinate to use data BETTER that is in the L2 cache, and to optimize how the OS uses it & keeps data in or out of it.



			
				zekrahminator said:
			
		

> There really is only one "Vista" theme, but you can play with the colors if you want. Given my system specs, Vista is a hog, but in a year, what's considered "high end" will be considered "mainstream", so I don't think Microsoft is asking too much.



That is a pretty high recommendation imo, but I don't doubt you for a second on it. Nice to hear you enjoy using it & like it.



			
				zekrahminator said:
			
		

> I'll have the alt-tab screenshot for you later.



That'd be VERY cool!

(As I really like those (neat feature imo, albeit even if it is only "eye-candy" really))...



APK


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## zekrahminator (Jun 27, 2006)

The soundblaster drivers being buggy was just Creative being lazy. The registry thing applies to ALL folders, nothing that can just be fixed by a little tweaking. For example. I uninstall UT GOTY, the game will still appear in the add/remove programs list, the various file types for the game will still be recognized, and most of the files in the game folder remain untouched. This is bad when trying to reinstall a game, because Windows Vista doesn't eliminate everything that could be causing the problem during uninstallation. And to be honest, I never really figured out how to get all the windows to twist around in crazy 3D landscapes. But Microsoft did put an interesting feature having to do with Alt-tab, I'll still post a screenshot.


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## Alec§taar (Jun 27, 2006)

zekrahminator said:
			
		

> The soundblaster drivers being buggy was just Creative being lazy.



Probably playing "catch up ball" here is all, still, it is ODD Ms' didn't make one "temporarily" that works @ least (kind of like how native NVidia or ATI drivers picked up on work in 2000/XP/Server 2003)...



			
				zekrahminator said:
			
		

> The registry thing applies to ALL folders, nothing that can just be fixed by a little tweaking. For example. I uninstall UT GOTY, the game will still appear in the add/remove programs list, the various file types for the game will still be recognized, and most of the files in the game folder remain untouched. This is bad when trying to reinstall a game, because Windows Vista doesn't eliminate everything that could be causing the problem during uninstallation.



Sounds like a Windows Installer 3.x Service problem - they will work this one out too, by tracing filesystem/disks/registry activities & see where the 'hangup' is.



(Should NOT be "tough" to fix imo @ least).



			
				zekrahminator said:
			
		

> And to be honest, I never really figured out how to get all the windows to twist around in crazy 3D landscapes. But Microsoft did put an interesting feature having to do with Alt-tab, I'll still post a screenshot.



Windows Key + Tab iirc, is what does the "new 3d display stays LIVE, alt+tab"...

APK

P.S.=> On a "side note", albeit diff. site, but imo a related one? Here is Anandtech's review:

http://www.anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.aspx?i=2780

apk


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## zekrahminator (Jun 27, 2006)

Well considering that I have no idea how the registry works, it would be tough for me to fix . Anyways, I'm having problems with the image loader, I'll let you know when I have the picture for you.


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## Jimmy 2004 (Jun 28, 2006)

Ok, I'm now going to try it again! Now I've got a faster graphics cards I'm going to move a few of my games that run really smooth on high graphics from my secondary drive onto my system disk to free up a few GB of space. Then I can install Vista at the end of the second drive (I know it might be a little slower, but it's my only option) as well as keeping Ubuntu and then I shouldn't need to use the Vista bootloader because both OSes will be on different drives! But I've given away my Vista DVD so I'm going to have to download it again . Oh well, at least I have 4 product keys! (and if you didn't know I think each one can be used on up to ten machines!)


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## zekrahminator (Jun 28, 2006)

Well good luck with that, you will DEFINITELY enjoy having the dual disks for booting. Makes thing's a lot easier lol. I think you're gonna run Vista about as well as I do...and remember, most of the bugs are in Windows Installer, the registry, and sound card drivers. ATI's Vista driver is JUNK, such junk in fact that my next uber-GPU is going to be from Nvidia. We should find out if there's a big difference running Vista with 1GB of RAM or 2GB of RAM, I doubt it considering that my games don't suffer too much of a performance hit from XP to Vista. Basically, if I wanted to upgrade my machine to be super-powerful with Vista, I'd need an A64 X2 (selling my 3800+ Venice.), 2GB of RAM (selling my 1GB mixed brand RAM.), and a DX10 GPU (I wonder what Nvidia has up their sleeves, but I'll be selling my X850XT with ATISilencer5 to afford it.). But hey that's not supposed to discourage you, I'm just saying that's what I'd need to make my system run Vista EXTREMELY well, so that I could be Halo 2 gauranteed . Vista runs fine on my current specs.


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## Jimmy 2004 (Jun 28, 2006)

Still downloading... done 89% now so only got 40mins left. Can't wait until my connection gets upgraded to 8meg.


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## Alec§taar (Jun 28, 2006)

Jimmy 2004 said:
			
		

> Still downloading... done 89% now so only got 40mins left. Can't wait until my connection gets upgraded to 8meg.



Jim - you were the fellow w/ the dualboot hassles using VISTA in previous beta builds, right?

(Let us know if this build fixed that for you, I am curious in that regard...)

APK


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## Alec§taar (Jun 28, 2006)

*Windows VISTA update (new one, 1 of 2 I know of)*

See subject-line/title, & this excerpt + d/l URL:

*"Install this update to fix an issue where in the presence of Internet Protocol security (IPsec) or Windows Firewall, a race condition can be hit on multi-processor (or hyper-threaded) systems causing memory corruption, leading to a system crash. After you install this item, you may have to restart your computer."*

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...ec-6a31-46a6-8238-dff1b2eb2025&DisplayLang=en



There was a PREVIOUS single update/hotfix for VISTA, but it probably was "rolled into" this latest release, so I would not worry too much about it -> Here was its URL below to read on it:

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1911406,00.asp

& here is its download area @ MS:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...dc-7148-4002-86bb-e4ade080ea86&displaylang=en

APK


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## Jimmy 2004 (Jun 28, 2006)

Alec§taar said:
			
		

> Jim - you were the fellow w/ the dualboot hassles using VISTA in previous beta builds, right?
> 
> (Let us know if this build fixed that for you, I am curious in that regard...)
> 
> APK



Yes, I think this is probably the same build as I had before though  because M$ won't let me get at the new one yet.  

I'm trying a different setup this time which should bypass the bootloader which I was having trouble with hopefully. And this keyboard keeps missing letters I type, sounds like it's time for new batteries.


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## Jimmy 2004 (Jun 28, 2006)

An update: well I'd like to say hello to an old friend who is making a strong comeback (especially with drivers): The blue screen of death! (perhaps they could have changed the colour this time round?!)

Anyway, I think Vista didn't like my old graphics card because I had no bootloader problems this time round! However, Vista wasn't happy  being on a separate drive so it decided to take over the XP bootloader anyway, so I'm going to have fun trying to get Ubuntu back onto that list. 

Anyway, I managed to disable some (well most) vista services and have it nearly down to an acceptable level of ram consumption. Drivers are a real problem though, get blue screens just opening pages in device manager sometimes so I'll need to work on that. How do you enable the cool alt-tab thing by the way?


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## Vrgn86 (Jun 28, 2006)

Jimmy 2004 said:
			
		

> An update: well I'd like to say hello to an old friend who is making a strong comeback (especially with drivers): The blue screen of death! (perhaps they could have changed the colour this time round?!)
> 
> Anyway, I think Vista didn't like my old graphics card because I had no bootloader problems this time round! However, Vista wasn't happy  being on a separate drive so it decided to take over the XP bootloader anyway, so I'm going to have fun trying to get Ubuntu back onto that list.
> 
> Anyway, I managed to disable some (well most) vista services and have it nearly down to an acceptable level of ram consumption. Drivers are a real problem though, get blue screens just opening pages in device manager sometimes so I'll need to work on that. How do you enable the cool alt-tab thing by the way?



The way to get the "cool alt-tab thing" is "Ctrl+WindowsKey+TAB" and have a few windows open for it to use. I don't seem to be having the driver probs you are. Just not happy about not having OpenGL support in this build.


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## Jimmy 2004 (Jun 28, 2006)

Thanks, I'll be trying to fight the driver problems tomorrow and tonight but I'll be away over the weekend and I doubt I'll get it sorted by then. 

Edit: found the problem is not with drivers but with trying to read from my DVD-RW drive


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## zekrahminator (Jun 28, 2006)

Yeah, Vista has the CRAZIEST driver issues, you'd never guess which one was causing the problems. I reccomend that you try to find the Vista drivers off websites (and hope the manufacterors weren't too lazy making them .) . I hate ATI's current Vista driver, I don't get to play with AA/AF, and all it does is increase lag. Can't go back to the Microsoft driver either...the uninstaller freezes, thanks to Windows installer 3 problems. I'm on XP right now, learning to enjoy my system before I have to do an insane upgrade.


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## zekrahminator (Jun 29, 2006)

Alright guys, it took some effort to get this pic, but here you go!


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## Jimmy 2004 (Jun 29, 2006)

Well the Ctrl-Windows Key-Tab thing just hangs my PC, could be a bad install because it should be more than capable of it, but I like the way you have UT at the front!


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## zekrahminator (Jun 29, 2006)

It's not Control-Windows-Tab, it's just Windows-Tab, and you have to keep holding the windows button down after you press windows-tab.


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## zekrahminator (Jun 29, 2006)

I thought I'd post the 3D difference between Vista and XP. I'll admit, this isn't exactly fair, I do have XP running with 16x AF, but oh well . 
Vista-





XP- 




You be the judge.


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## Jimmy 2004 (Jun 29, 2006)

Look very similar but what was the FPS like on each? BTW, I had to reinstall Vista because the control panel broke (perhaps from me disabling the wrong Vista services?) and the windows-tab thing just wouldn't work (again, could be services!). But now it seems ok and I need to carefully disable the Vista services to regain 400MB or so of RAM! (the sidebar along uses ~50MB for me  ).

Edit: Well, I'm pleased with Vista for managing to find my Wireless drivers over windows update which means I don't need to be connected through a spare router with wireless bridging enabled...


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## Alec§taar (Jun 29, 2006)

Jimmy 2004 said:
			
		

> Look very similar but what was the FPS like on each? BTW, I had to reinstall Vista because the control panel broke (perhaps from me disabling the wrong Vista services?)



The .NET related services maybe? I know that ATI shifted over to using .NET based Windows Forms code some time ago for the driver reparameterization stuff (control panel as you call it), & if you cut that service, it could affect it possibly.

APK


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## zekrahminator (Jun 29, 2006)

On Vista I get between 70 and 170 FPS, with a bit of jumping when Vista is loading something. On XP I get about that much, except without the jumping .


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## Alec§taar (Jun 29, 2006)

"Z" &/or Jim:

Is it true that OpenGL is GONE from VISTA?



* I heard/read that online... 

(Imo, bad move by MS if so!)

*QUESTION -* Are you guys able to play ANY OpenGL games there (e.g.-> IDSoftware stuff is OpenGL) OR run OpenGL based ScreenSavers?

APK

P.S.=> Having to pull OpenGL (the superior 3d video display paradigm imo) to further Direct X (especially version 10, which I also heard will only be available on VISTA, & no other MS OS) this way, it's not a good move on MS' part... I just don't know... apk


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## Jimmy 2004 (Jun 29, 2006)

Yes, OpenGL is gone I think, M$ want to move everything over to DirectX so that other systems (like Linux) can't use the OpenGL architechture. I expect that it will have to be added in at some point - like you say, how else can we play our old OpenGL games? I haven't installed any yet, so maybe you can play them somehow, but I don't think we've seen the end of OpenGL yet. If M$ don't add it in someone will do.

Edit: They've also removed the 'Run' command from the taskbar, at the moment I'm getting to it through task manager. I need to check how to get it back, guessing it can be done easily through the control panel.

Edit2: I have a run command!


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## zekrahminator (Jun 29, 2006)

Here's how to get it back...right click on the start menu, go to properties, go to start menu, and then customize. Scroll down until you see the run command, and then press "show".


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## i_am_mustang_man (Jun 29, 2006)

random story about how dual booting vista saved my ass:

i was trying the systool cpu ez OCing utility (my board isn't 'technically' supported) using the nforce4 device option.  i've done it before, and it found a max. so i try it again with some fans on it, and then, while i'm finding max, bam, screen is black. pc is still running tho... cpu heat was like 45 before that, so idk. anyways, i just do a soft restart, and it tries to boot up windows, but says: serious error-no suitable os found.  um. fuck.  also, my boot screen is filling alittle more than my lcd can actually do (like it's trying to display 1100x840 or so on my 1024/768), so it's cutting some stuff off. owell.  i boot again, it says-file ntoskrnl is corrupted in (gives me path), get a new one.  ok.  so basically all my driver support is gone, cuz my keyboard isn't working (it's wireless usb) and my vga card is overdisplaying, but ieventually get the keyboard to work.  opt for boot into vista.  find the ntoskrnl file in my vista install, replace the one on my xp install (saving the corrupt one at the same time), and then get back into bios and select xp.  works no prob.  the thing is, i don't know why it crashed now and not before, other than i know have ccc 6.6, and that makes finding max core and mem in atitool not work (artifacts alot now, underclocks it infact), so i don't know.

anyways, vista saved my ass just by being there!

back to the topic at hand, i use xp for all my games and most everything still just because with vista my wireless nic doesn't work as well (less reception, idky), so ya.


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## zekrahminator (Jun 30, 2006)

Upgraded my BIOS and loosened my mem timings and Vista runs alot faster...strange .


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## zekrahminator (Jul 1, 2006)

I found another problem! . I installed Java, and whenever I run a Java program in Vista, the Windows Vista Aero theme changes to Windows Vista Classic or something along those lines. Java programs still run, just...I'd like to see them run with Aero still enabled. I reported it to Microsoft, so we'll see if there's a solution in Beta 3.


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## Ketxxx (Jul 1, 2006)

should i order your coffin now sir?


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## zekrahminator (Jul 1, 2006)

No, I don't really see a need.


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## Alec§taar (Jul 1, 2006)

*Jim, or "Z" - to test OpenGL on VISTA? If you dualboot...*

See subject-line/title:

I am assuming you fellas are both "dual booting" Microsoft OS' first of all, like 2000/XP/Server 2003 etc.-et al!

The ONLY way I can see testing it quickly/easily?

Well, that's to copy some of the std./oem installed OpenGL screensavers that SHOULD be in your other OS bootup menus choices in their %windir%\system32\ folder (*.scr files is what you need to look @ & copy over to VISTA's %windir%\system32 folder) & try to run them...

They can be run from the RUN command also, as they are only std. Win32 PE executables with a diff. extension...



(Personally, I am curious as to what you'll see trying to run them is all...)

* If either of you have time, please let me (us) know what happens then...

APK

P.S.=> If you're NOT "dual-booting", then go here for various OpenGL screensavers to test/try this out with:

http://www.topshareware.com/guide/hot/opengl.htm

Some nice ones are there!

"TIA!"... apk


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## zekrahminator (Jul 1, 2006)

Wait...so I would be going start-run-what?


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## Alec§taar (Jul 1, 2006)

zekrahminator said:
			
		

> Wait...so I would be going start-run-what?



Give me a list of this from a DOS prompt (and, be sure you switch to directories/subdirectories-folders/subfolders from your XP/2000/Server 2003 (whatever you dualboot VISTA with)):

cd\Windows\system
dir *.scr

(This will provide a list of screensavers present, and from your list, I can tell you which ones are OpenGL)



* So we can pull this experiment... & see the resulting "abend/error" message (probably something along the lines of "OpenGL subsystem not supported/installed" etc.)...

APK

P.S.=> HOWEVER, it may actually run them (as the DLL/libs are there in that folder, & when an executable tries to run, it FIRST looks in the folder it is in for supporting libs/files, & they will be there IF run from your XP/2000/Server 2003 subfolder for %windir%\system32)... we will see!

If they do? That's when you copy the *.scr (screensaver of OpenGL variety) to the VISTA %windir%\system32, & try to run them from there instead... apk


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## zekrahminator (Jul 1, 2006)

From what I can tell, the OpenGL screensavers do not work at all. I tried to download one, and it, well, didn't work. It just gave me an error message "Screensaver stopped working! Checking Microsoft for a solution." Oh well...I can run OpenGL games (Unreal Tournament GOTY has an OpenGL rendering device, it works, but is very laggy.).


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## zekrahminator (Jul 1, 2006)

Going back to what I said about the uninstaller not working...it seriously doesn't. I just "uninstalled" UT from the control panel, and the game still works . It actually runs better then before lol.


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## Jimmy 2004 (Jul 2, 2006)

zekrahminator said:
			
		

> Going back to what I said about the uninstaller not working...it seriously doesn't. I just "uninstalled" UT from the control panel, and the game still works . It actually runs better then before lol.



Lol... I've done the same thing with the services. There must be one that wasn't important in XP but is needed to do the Windows-Tab thing and open the control panel


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## zekrahminator (Jul 2, 2006)

I'm on XP right now...and you know what I have to say about Vista? It's alot of fun to play with, but I'm certainly glad I didn't pay $400 for my copy. Vista has alot of potential, however for the time being, Windows XP is simply better. It's alot less buggy and supports EVERYTHING out there (except mac and linux stuff, obviously .). Vista is nothing but XP with one or two features, DX10, and eye candy for the time being. I hope that the Windows after Vista is from scratch. You can seriously tell that Vista is XP with added features, and some problems.


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## Jimmy 2004 (Jul 3, 2006)

zekrahminator said:
			
		

> I'm on XP right now...and you know what I have to say about Vista? It's alot of fun to play with, but I'm certainly glad I didn't pay $400 for my copy. Vista has alot of potential, however for the time being, Windows XP is simply better. It's alot less buggy and supports EVERYTHING out there (except mac and linux stuff, obviously .). *Vista is nothing but XP with one or two features*, DX10, and eye candy for the time being. I hope that the Windows after Vista is from scratch. You can seriously tell that Vista is XP with added features, and some problems.



I was thinking the exact same thing from what I've seen. Win98 to WinXP = big change, WinXP to WinVista = change in appearance. What do you reckon vista could be shortened to? All the other windows have been a couple of numbers or letters except 200. Windows VA?


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## zekrahminator (Jul 3, 2006)

I'm thinking...Windows XP SP3 .


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## Alec§taar (Jul 3, 2006)

*Thanks for running an OpenGL test guys (sorry for lag in reply too)*

See subject-line/title:



* Ah, Microsoft... attempting to "do in" OpenGL, not a good move imo!

APK


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## zekrahminator (Jul 3, 2006)

No problem...and I've thought about it being called XP SP3. If MS were to release the beta as it is, it should be called "Windows 95 with 3D enhancements" .


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## Alec§taar (Jul 6, 2006)

*Another patch to VISTA (2nd I know of, posted of other one here earlier on)*

For those interested, see subject-line/title, & this URL for this patch's download:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...a2-d3d2-4136-9536-0ebb4dd4f1a6&DisplayLang=en



* Looks fairly important, dealing w/ router compatibility, etc.

APK


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## Jimmy 2004 (Jul 8, 2006)

Well I've managed to fix the problem with the Windows-Tab and control panel not working. Turns out it was the Software Licensing service which I had thought would be useless to me... going to try the creative drivers now.


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## zekrahminator (Jul 8, 2006)

Well have fun with them...if your computer starts perpetually lagging and CPU usage is always at 100%, redownload and reinstall the Creative drivers.


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## Jimmy 2004 (Jul 8, 2006)

Just tried to install them and the installer crashed! Now I'm having great fun trying to install them properly... and I still don't have sound!


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