# NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti Founders Edition



## W1zzard (Jun 2, 2021)

NVIDIA's GeForce RTX 3080 Ti is the green team's answer to AMD's recent Radeon launches. In our testing, this 12 GB card basically matches the much more expensive RTX 3090 24 GB in performance. The compact dual-slot Founders Edition design looks gorgeous and is of amazing build quality.

*Show full review*


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## Legacy-ZA (Jun 2, 2021)

OUT OF STOCK!!!!  

Too soon?


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## arczi19 (Jun 2, 2021)

Shame about the thermal pads, I was hoping NVIDIA would improve them.


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## las (Jun 2, 2021)

As expected, not that this gpu matters alot, unless availablity is good and it won't be


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## Luminescent (Jun 2, 2021)

This card will end up at probably 2500-3000$, who in their right mind would pay this kind of money ? 
With 500$ you get a PS5/Xbox and still have 2000-2500$ to get a lot of games that will keep you busy for years.
The best thing you can do to end this is to NOT BUY ANY VIDEO CARD AT ALL, just forget for a few years that you can game on a PC, play on a phone, buy a console but just ignore PC gaming for a few years until they are dirt cheap.


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## GoldenX (Jun 2, 2021)

Sexy vaporware, like Supercars.
Also, 457W? Dayum.


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## TheLostSwede (Jun 2, 2021)

Luminescent said:


> This card will end up at probably 2500-3000$, who in their right mind would pay this kind of money ?
> With 500$ you get a PS5/Xbox and still have 2000-2500$ to get a lot of games that will keep you busy for years.
> The best thing you can do to end this is to NOT BUY ANY VIDEO CARD AT ALL, just forget for a few years that you can game on a PC, play on a phone, buy a console but just ignore PC gaming for a few years until they are dirt cheap.


But can you do the same things on a console as you can on a PC?
I guess the answer to that is no.
Not that you need this graphics card, but even so, it's an odd comparison.
I don't just play games and watch movies on my PC, I actually use it for work, as well as a lot of other things that a console can't do.


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## Chomiq (Jun 2, 2021)

When scoring PS5 for MSRP (if you exclude the cost of bundled games, accessories etc) is much easier than any GPU out there.


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## X71200 (Jun 2, 2021)

TheLostSwede said:


> But can you do the same things on a console as you can on a PC?
> I guess the answer to that is no.
> Not that you need this graphics card, but even so, it's an odd comparison.
> I don't just play games and watch movies on my PC, I actually use it for work, as well as a lot of other things that a console can't do.



With that kind of cash you might as well buy a pre-built that already comes with a high end Ampere card close to this GPU, these prices are just stupid.


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## human_error (Jun 2, 2021)

Holy moly 99 degrees on the memory!?! I was really tempted to try and grab the FE as it will be MSRP but that high memory temp is giving me serious cause for concern. A shame the AIB cards will be so damned expensive.


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## TheLostSwede (Jun 2, 2021)

X71200 said:


> With that kind of cash you might as well buy a pre-built that already comes with a high end Ampere card close to this GPU, these prices are just stupid.


Yeah, not arguing about the stupid pricing, just that a console can't really replace a computer.
So you either end up with a console and a PC, or a better PC.
That said, it's not as if consoles are readily available either, but at least there aren't too many scalpers now.
Expect pre-built PCs and laptops to go up in price soon too, as the component shortage and increased shipping prices are hitting those companies too.
In Taiwan there's a local laptop shortage now, at least for anything sub US$1,000, as the wuhan virus finally struck, so everyone's buying new gear here too now.


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## lemoncarbonate (Jun 2, 2021)

5-10% performance increase over 3080 with >50% MSRP increase. Good job Nvidia.. good job.


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## Dr. Dro (Jun 2, 2021)

human_error said:


> Holy moly 99 degrees on the memory!?! I was really tempted to try and grab the FE as it will be MSRP but that high memory temp is giving me serious cause for concern. A shame the AIB cards will be so damned expensive.



According to the HWiNFO developer, GDDR6X modules are rated to throttle at around 110°C. They're toasty and consume a lot of power, any 3090 owner will attest to that


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## QUANTUMPHYSICS (Jun 2, 2021)

I'm headed over to Microcenter now.


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## W1zzard (Jun 2, 2021)

QUANTUMPHYSICS said:


> I'm headed over to Microcenter now.


Cards go on sale tomorrow


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## Legacy-ZA (Jun 2, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> Cards go on sale tomorrow



Exactly... 

I would have set up a tent one week ago, should I have wanted to buy this.


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## Chrispy_ (Jun 2, 2021)

Another zero-effort GPU "launch" for a product that's technically desirable but owing to pricing/availability pretty much irrelevant for the shelf-life of the product.

By the time consumers can get GPUs again, Ampere will be "last-gen".


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## birdie (Jun 2, 2021)

I don't care about the price or availability since I never buy cards these expensive anyways, but tell me, why

the energy efficiency vs. the previous gen RTX cards hasn't improved one bit?
the energy efficiency is even lower than for RTX'less previous gen cards like 1660 Ti?
It looks like the RTX 30 cards are running at their maximum possible clocks and downclocking them could make them a lot better in this regard.


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## elghinnarisa (Jun 2, 2021)

birdie said:


> I don't care about the price or availability since I never buy cards these expensive anyways, but tell me, why
> 
> the energy efficiency vs. the previous gen RTX cards hasn't improved one bit?
> the energy efficiency is even lower than for RTX'less previous gen cards like 1660 Ti?
> It looks like the RTX 30 cards are running at their maximum possible clocks and downclocking them could make them a lot better in this regard.


And that they do actually, you can quite easily reduce power consumption with 50w or more while the performance loss is negligible, almost unnoticeable.
I can quite easily drop my power consumption on my 3070 down from 240w to 180w with a performance loss of ~3%, 1980Mhz down to 1910Mhz for a much lower power consumption


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## Chomiq (Jun 2, 2021)

birdie said:


> I don't care about the price or availability since I never buy cards these expensive anyways, but tell me, why
> 
> the energy efficiency vs. the previous gen RTX cards hasn't improved one bit?
> the energy efficiency is even lower than for RTX'less previous gen cards like 1660 Ti?
> It looks like the RTX 30 cards are running at their maximum possible clocks and downclocking them could make them a lot better in this regard.


This is what you get when you try to maximize performance gains.


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## Luminescent (Jun 2, 2021)

If we are here we can agree most of us have a computer, i just said  DON'T UPGRADE YOUR GPU FOR A FEW YEARS.
GPU's on pc are mostly bought for gaming, a tiny % use it for work like me but even so, for video editing i can edit almost anything except cinema files from RED cameras.
For the amount of money they want to charge we can forget for a while that we can game on PC, it's simple, we wait a few years and when everything settles we might consider buying a GPU.


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## FeelinFroggy (Jun 2, 2021)

Hard to get excited about a GPU that cant be found anywhere near the MSRP.  Even if it is probably the best gaming GPU in the world.

The 3080 MSRP was $699 and the ti jumps up $500 for single digit percentage fps improvements?  Remember when the 1080ti was just $100 more than the 1080.  And the 1080ti had a nice 20-30% performance jump over the 1080.    

But I cant blame Nvidia for the pricing.  I would sell them for as much as I could and they wont be able to keep shelves stocked with these things.  

I sound bitter because I am bitter.  I am ready to upgrade my 1080ti and dont see that happening anytime soon.  

Crypto currency may just be the death knell for pc gaming.


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## wheresmycar (Jun 2, 2021)

Just here for some sight-seeing. Pretty cards. Ok back to the real-world!!


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## Frick (Jun 2, 2021)

TheLostSwede said:


> But can you do the same things on a console as you can on a PC?
> I guess the answer to that is no.
> Not that you need this graphics card, but even so, it's an odd comparison.
> I don't just play games and watch movies on my PC, I actually use it for work, as well as a lot of other things that a console can't do.



A console can to a decent degree replace a modern _gaming_ computer though.


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## HisDivineOrder (Jun 2, 2021)

FeelinFroggy said:


> Hard to get excited about a GPU that cant be found anywhere near the MSRP.  Even if it is probably the best gaming GPU in the world.
> 
> The 3080 MSRP was $699 and the ti jumps up $500 for single digit percentage fps improvements?  Remember when the 1080ti was just $100 more than the 1080.  And the 1080ti had a nice 20-30% performance jump over the 1080.
> 
> ...



That was my original opinion a few months back when the tariffs kicked in on top of the scalping. If you want to kill PC gaming, keep on keeping on. It'll become ultra niche and then there won't be enough people bothering at the low or mid-range to support the high end getting parts, either. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater and shrugging about it. Profits are nice, though. They won't be as nice once everyone's moved on.


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## outpt (Jun 2, 2021)

just wait it out. do dome dumpster diving. might as well get that amd 5950x i want and could stand a new monitor. time to try something new instead of the same old shit,gaming,.


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## NotHereMan (Jun 2, 2021)

Frick said:


> A console can to a decent degree replace a modern _gaming_ computer though.


Agreed. Consoles are perfectly adequate for the mainstream. Nowadays the differences between gaming a on PC vs console has become quite minimal. In terms of graphics quality and performance, going PC to game just means you have disposable income.


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## N3M3515 (Jun 2, 2021)

lemoncarbonate said:


> 5-10% performance increase over 3080 with >50% MSRP increase. Good job Nvidia.. good job.


Editor's choice!! rofl....


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## Razrback16 (Jun 2, 2021)

hah. Ya...a couple of the newer games I looked at, the 3080 Ti only netted ~14-15fps more than a 2080 Ti in 4k (Valhalla & CP)...and they want $1200, which it won't even be available for (likely more like $2000-2500 on ebay), and doesn't even have a waterblock. Like the 2080 Ti...I'll wait for 2nd or 3rd hand market for the pricing to be more appropriate for its performance. Pricing today is just crazy for this stuff. I'm happy to continue buying used gear.


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## evernessince (Jun 2, 2021)

N3M3515 said:


> Editor's choice!! rofl....



Exactly my thoughts.  This is by far the worst xx80 Ti ever released by Nvidia.  7% average performance gain over the 3080, higher power consumption than both the 3080 and 3090, and a $1,200 price tag.  To boot it's got 12GB of VRAM, half that of the 3090.


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## W1zzard (Jun 2, 2021)

Why is everybody so concerned with NVIDIA's MSRP? It's just a meaningless number. They probably didn't want to lower the x80 Ti MSRP compared to 2080 Ti, so they picked 1200, to not look bad when they announce 4080 Ti.

You will not be able to buy the 3080 Ti at that price, probably ever. As much as that sucks for all of us, that's what will happen. Look at what the card offers, compared to what's available at what price and make a decision based on that? I tried to go through some options and examples in my conclusion.


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## RedelZaVedno (Jun 2, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> Why is everybody so concerned with NVIDIA's MSRP? It's just a meaningless number.


It's not meaningless in the long run... just look at the direction MSRP prices are headed: GTX 680 = $499 / 780TI =$699 / 980TI = $649 / 1080TI = $699 / 2080TI = $999 / 3080TI =$1.199... 240% price hike in 9 years (18% inflation in this period). Elevated MSRPs are here to stay even after mining graze ends. DIY PC building is becoming prohibitively expensive for more and more PC builders, especially considering todays console pricing and performance. I know A LOT of ppl, long term PC gamers/DIY PC builders who said that they'll just opt for office PC + a console (when they become available).


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## W1zzard (Jun 2, 2021)

RedelZaVedno said:


> Elevated MSRPs are here to stay even after mining graze ends.


It's supply and demand, people just need to stop buying stuff for prices to go down. For a recent example, look at Intel CPU prices


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## N3M3515 (Jun 2, 2021)

Definitely not editor's choice....

















 "we're going to apologize in advance for wasting your time and ours with this one......"









 "pump the market with more midrange cards that people are trying to get their hands on rather than coming out with more highend cards that people already couldn't afford even if prices weren't screwed up to begin with....."









 "Rich people only please....."









 "The 3080 ti is just a card i would not recommend, for 7 to 10% over the 3080 for a 70% increase in price, it just sounds absolutely ludicrous, saying that outloud this is just not a good use of money when it comes to buy a gaming gpu...."


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## N3M3515 (Jun 2, 2021)

"I also have to wonder if nvidia strategy here was to release a card like the rtx 3090, which is so stupidly overpriced that it makes everything underneath and even expensive cards like the 3080Ti look like a "better deal"......"









 "A relative small amount of extra performance for a whole lot more money, i'd say that if every gpu out there could be bought, i think it's fair to say that amd would still be in the game with the 6900XT...."









 "The conclusion i've come to is.....buy the 3080...."









 "This is just a stupid launch...."


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## Chrispy_ (Jun 2, 2021)

@W1zzard
Do all of the 3080Ti cards you're tearing down and reviewing feel like new cards, or do you recognise them as rebrands where partners have just changed the vBIOS and filled in the two missing memory locations omitted in the 3080? Many of the cards I'm seeing look _identical_ to the 3080 models we saw reviewed last year, but that's to be expected as partners will re-use coolers and backplates more often than not.


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## Cr4zy (Jun 2, 2021)

https://tpucdn.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-ti-founders-edition/images/power-vsync.png
		






I think the data is a little off in this image? Atleast this graph seems to indicate it is atleast.



			https://tpucdn.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-ti-founders-edition/images/power-consumption.png


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## N3M3515 (Jun 2, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> people just need to stop buying stuff for prices to go down


Then why don't you advise that instead of giving it a freaking editor's choice bro?? it's misleading.


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## W1zzard (Jun 2, 2021)

Cr4zy said:


> I think the data is a little off in this image? Atleast this graph seems to indicate it is atleast.


Yup, fixed now



N3M3515 said:


> Youtubers


So our YouTube friends are saying that this is obviously such a terrible product that nobody will buy it tomorrow?


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## X71200 (Jun 2, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> So our YouTube friends are saying that this is obviously such a terrible product that nobody will buy it tomorrow?



It's a terrible product as far as price to performance is concerned and you know it. Telling people to "not buy cards" also seems like a genius mentality of yours to drop down prices. People with more money than brains buying scalper material doesn't make your point more worthy. You're frankly coming up with some absurd thoughts. You talked about "what the card offers at which price level", and we can lead you to those Newegg pre-builts where you get a FULL PC with a 3070 or above at that kind of price level.


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Jun 2, 2021)

NotHereMan said:


> Agreed. Consoles are perfectly adequate for the mainstream. Nowadays the differences between gaming a on PC vs console has become quite minimal. In terms of graphics quality and performance, going PC to game just means you have disposable income.


Yeah, many new console games have either quality 4K 30fps or performance 1440P 60fps modes to please everyone, and with PC prices increases year after year ( disregarding scalpers ) its hard to justify spending that much.


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## ThrashZone (Jun 2, 2021)

Hi,
I will not be waiting in line anywhere for a 3080ti 
I wouldn't personally buy a nvidia fe card seeing the temps are always worse but even the likes of evga/ .... I won't be buying any of those either at the performance level and price.
Sad, doubt 40 series will be any better guess it's time to get back into cars and get an ipad lol


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## KainXS (Jun 2, 2021)

Its a meh card pretty much and just really shows the times right now. Nvidia simply is not even trying and neither is AMD because they know their products will all sell out anyway. As for price performance, every card right now is terrible for that and if you can you should probably just keep what if at all possible. Current market is something I have never seen before, sell sell sell, unless its an intel CPU.

Also is the cyberpunk ray tracing section right for AMD cards.


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## N3M3515 (Jun 2, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> Yup, fixed now
> 
> 
> So our YouTube friends are saying that this is obviously such a terrible product that nobody will buy it tomorrow?


So you think everybody is going to buy it tomorrow because it's an excellent product, an editor's choice?


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## W1zzard (Jun 2, 2021)

N3M3515 said:


> So you think everybody is going to buy tomorrow because it's an excellent product, an editor's choice?


At current market conditions and $1200 it definitely is. and it will sell out tomorrow. Will be interesting to see at which price it ends up on eBay with LHR, and from there on it's supply and demand mechanics again.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love for hardware to be cheaper. At the most basic level it would also mean more $$ in my pocket, because more people come to TPU. We have no content to offer for console gamers, so if PCMR goes down, so do we and I'll have to start programming boring databases at some large corp.


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Jun 2, 2021)

Pascal was the last great generation from nvidia the 1060 offered unbelievable value for 1080p gaming, the 1070 gave you 980ti performance at 50% less power, the 1080 was great for 1440p, and lastly how can you forget the 1080ti, a card so good, it blew the industry away with its capabilities and armed with 11gb of gddr5x.

ever since rtx 2000 series nvidia made no real improvements in performance and power efficiency, just focusing on raytracing and DLSS, rtx 3000 is even worse, abysmal power efficiency( up to 500w on rtx 3090!!!!), lackluster VRAM ( aside from 3060 and 3090), overheating gddr6x memory, no stock, and pointless SKUs like the this 3080ti,... wtf is going on at nvidia ??!!!

just when high resolution high refreshrate gaming started to becomes a reallity for everyone nvidia went full L since rtx 2000 series, no one wants ray tracing, we want 4k 144fps gaming, look how rtx 3060 promises rtx 2060 Super performance at 170watts, the 2060 super gave you gtx 1080 performance at 190watts, the gtx 1080 was 180watts gpu !!!   NO REAL POWER EFFICIENCY IMPROVEMENTS SINCE 2016 !!!! AND THEY CHARGE YOU MORE


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## N3M3515 (Jun 2, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> At current market conditions and $1200 it definitely is. and it will sell out tomorrow. Will be interesting to see at which price it ends up on eBay with LHR, and from there on it's supply and demand mechanics again.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'd love for hardware to be cheaper. At the most basic level it would also mean more $$ in my pocket, because more people come to TPU. We have no content to offer for console gamers, so if PCMR goes down, so do we and I'll have to start programming boring databases at some large corp.


Respectfully W1zz, the reason people are going to buy this gpu tomorrow is because despite being a terrible value, there is nothing else, also mining, scalping, etc. But not because it's an excellent value.


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## W1zzard (Jun 2, 2021)

N3M3515 said:


> Respectfully W1zz, the reason people are going to buy this gpu tomorrow is because despite being a terrible value, there is nothing else, also mining, scalping, etc. But not because it's an excellent value.


Of course, if there was stock of other cards at MSRP or below, 3080 Ti at $1200 would be terrible value. But that's not the case


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## X71200 (Jun 2, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> At current market conditions and $1200 it definitely is. and it will sell out tomorrow. Will be interesting to see at which price it ends up on eBay with LHR, and from there on it's supply and demand mechanics again.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'd love for hardware to be cheaper. At the most basic level it would also mean more $$ in my pocket, because more people come to TPU. We have no content to offer for console gamers, so if PCMR goes down, so do we and I'll have to start programming boring databases at some large corp.



It'll sell out tomorrow because scalpers and miners have a shitload of money reserved for stuff like this.

PC isn't going down anytime soon, as it has far more uses than a console. For your saying "PCMR" for PC, I'd like to not touch that sentiment but can't hold myself here. What are we, 12?


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## ThrashZone (Jun 2, 2021)

N3M3515 said:


> So you think everybody is going to buy it tomorrow because it's an excellent product, an editor's choice?


Hi,
I wouldn't focus so much on the editors choice bit and read the entire conclusion instead, all is covered there.


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## Emwun Garand (Jun 2, 2021)

You're giving it a Thumbs up/Pro for being 8nm? As opposed to what?


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## RedelZaVedno (Jun 2, 2021)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> Pascal was the last great generation from nvidia the 1060 offered unbelievable value for 1080p gaming, the 1070 gave you 980ti performance at 50% less power, the 1080 was great for 1440p, and lastly how can you forget the 1080ti, a card so good, it blew the industry away with its capabilities and armed with 11gb of gddr5x.
> 
> ever since rtx 2000 series nvidia made no real improvements in performance and power efficiency, just focusing on raytracing and DLSS, rtx 3000 is even worse, abysmal power efficiency( up to 500w on rtx 3090!!!!), lackluster VRAM ( aside from 3060 and 3090), overheating gddr6x memory, no stock, and pointless SKUs like the this 3080ti,... wtf is going on at nvidia ??!!!
> 
> just when high resolution high refreshrate gaming started to becomes a reallity for everyone nvidia went full L since rtx 2000 series, no one wants ray tracing, we want 4k 144fps gaming, look how rtx 3060 promises rtx 2060 Super performance at 170watts, the 2060 super gave you gtx 1080 performance at 190watts, the gtx 1080 was 180watts gpu !!!   NO REAL POWER EFFICIENCY IMPROVEMENTS SINCE 2016 !!!! AND THEY CHARGE YOU MORE



It's maybe not all bad... According to RedGamingTech leaks Intel XE & DG2 dGPU program is shaping up quite well (3070-3080 level of performance) and more importantly, Raja has allegedly got Intel's support to primarily target $200-300 mainstream market. Plus no AIB partners and putting strict distributors & retailer pricing policies in place, just like with it's CPUs. 2022 dGPU market might look much, much better if mining craze ends. Granted RDNA3 and Ampere next gen will be a tier above Intel offerings performance wise, but hey I'll gladly buy 3070-3080 level of performance GPU for 300 bucks if it has half decent drivers instead of what Ngreedia & AMD will try to charge for their new dGPU lineups.


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## wheresmycar (Jun 2, 2021)

The only way we can solve the problem is going back to 360p resolution gaming and sticking with integrated graphics. Just sit closer to the screen so it feels like a 27"/34" panel... for the wide-screeners just squint your eyes. As long as we have "huge" graphical fidelity ambitions, we will always be robbed by profiteering Ngreed'ism/co. I even regretted purchasing a 1080 TI initially for £600/£700. Once up and running it didn't feel like me money's worth. Although it did turn out to be a nice investment eventually.


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## mechtech (Jun 2, 2021)

I wonder if W1zzard has to get additional insurance with all these cards in his studio????


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## Shatun_Bear (Jun 3, 2021)

What's the point? Nvidia could package up toenail shavings for a couple thousand and countless idiots would buy it, jacking up the prices for everyone else (not for toenails but graphics cards to be clear).

I liked PC gaming before the middle class kids or casuals got interested in it about 5 or 6 years ago. Now they all want the best graphics cards so save up a whole month's worth of their McDonald's counter salary to buy one. These people don't have bills or kids.


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## Caring1 (Jun 3, 2021)

Shatun_Bear said:


> What's the point? Nvidia could package up toenail shavings for a couple thousand and countless idiots would buy it, jacking up the prices for everyone else (not for toenails but graphics cards to be clear).
> 
> I liked PC gaming before the middle class kids or casuals got interested in it about 5 or 6 years ago. Now they all want the best graphics cards so save up a whole month's worth of their McDonald's counter salary to buy one. These people don't have bills or kids.


Wow, so many stupid assumptions.


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## wtfbbqlol (Jun 3, 2021)

@W1zzard

Thanks for the review!

Is there something wrong about the Cyberpunk 2077 ray-tracing results? The RX6000 series non-RT vs RT results are the same...


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## Razrback16 (Jun 3, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> Why is everybody so concerned with NVIDIA's MSRP? It's just a meaningless number. They probably didn't want to lower the x80 Ti MSRP compared to 2080 Ti, so they picked 1200, to not look bad when they announce 4080 Ti.
> 
> You will not be able to buy the 3080 Ti at that price, probably ever. As much as that sucks for all of us, that's what will happen. Look at what the card offers, compared to what's available at what price and make a decision based on that? I tried to go through some options and examples in my conclusion.



Eh the 2080 Ti was significantly overpriced at $1200. Its performance wasn't all that impressive. One of the key reasons I waited to pick one up used on ebay for just a bit above half of what its MSRP was (including a pre-installed wb to boot). 

As you mentioned in a later post, though, people do need to stop buying this stuff at these price points or it won't ever go down.


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## 64K (Jun 3, 2021)

PC gaming isn't going away. It just needs a temporary adjustment in our thinking. People want to downplay the conditions wrought by the Pandemic and we have a hell of a mess to clean up going forward but it will happen.


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## Dr. Dro (Jun 3, 2021)

Emwun Garand said:


> You're giving it a Thumbs up/Pro for being 8nm? As opposed to what?



Personal opinion, but I believe that the Samsung 8 nm process isn't the reason these GPUs are so "power inefficient" (as in, hungry). This is most noticeable on the RTX 3070, I would go as far as saying that it's quite lean on power for the awesome amount of performance it provides, and I'm quite eager to see w1zz's review and the impact of GDDR6X on the 3070 Ti's power consumption and frametime stability, given that for all we know from rumor mills, they are coming with similar power limits to the vanilla 3070 variety. Being on this node is also positive for yield, as it doesn't have to compete with the numerous other products and orders that require TSMC 7 nm capacity, like AMD's entire product stack. "nm" is just marketing anyway, the actual transistor pitch isn't that small.

The biggest issue to me, so far, is the GDDR6X, it consumes an absolutely insane amount of power. This was measured in the middle of a 3DMark Time Spy Extreme run. Look at this, even at 61% memory controller load, the MVDDC (memory subsystem) is pushing 115W(!) of the 375W budget my card has... and there are games and workloads that demand more out of it.





I must say, AMD's Infinity Cache solution to the bandwidth problem is simply ingenious and downright elegant over using hot and hungry PAM4 memory.


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## TheinsanegamerN (Jun 3, 2021)

I love the peanut gallery throwing out anecdotes about how PC gaming is totally dying and everyone is going to go buy consoles. Yeah, I cant get a GPU right now so I'm gonna drop high end GPU money on a console that cant do 4k60/1440p144 at ALL and can barely do 4k30/1440p60 (1080p60 for PS5 since it cant even do 1440p LMFAO) with a totally closed environment with no competition and stuck with joystick controls.  

Whatever you're smoking to come up with that argument, you can keep it, cause its garbage.  

Also daily reminder that the 8800 ultra launch for the equivalent of $1100 in 2006. Prices go up, prices go down.  LOLCALMDOWN


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## Mussels (Jun 3, 2021)

On the circuit board analysis page it would be nice to have some notes explaining the differences between the 3080FE, 3080Ti FE, and 3090FE - the chokes, VRMs, memory modules
Since the cards are so similar, something as simple as "the 3080 has X memory modules, Ti has 2 more, and 90 has them doubled onto the back of the PCB" would be really informative to those reading this first, without the background knowledge



Dr. Dro said:


> According to the HWiNFO developer, GDDR6X modules are rated to throttle at around 110°C. They're toasty and consume a lot of power, any 3090 owner will attest to that


*Begins crying*
*Uses tears to fill my EK block and watercool the VRAM with an active backplate*


Yeah its a problem, and something the Ti should have resolved. They clearly just used the existing cooling setups with zero changes.


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## KainXS (Jun 3, 2021)

Dr. Dro said:


> Personal opinion, but I believe that the Samsung 8 nm process isn't the reason these GPUs are so "power inefficient" (as in, hungry). This is most noticeable on the RTX 3070, I would go as far as saying that it's quite lean on power for the awesome amount of performance it provides, and I'm quite eager to see w1zz's review and the impact of GDDR6X on the 3070 Ti's power consumption and frametime stability, given that for all we know from rumor mills, they are coming with similar power limits to the vanilla 3070 variety. Being on this node is also positive for yield, as it doesn't have to compete with the numerous other products and orders that require TSMC 7 nm capacity, like AMD's entire product stack. "nm" is just marketing anyway, the actual transistor pitch isn't that small.
> 
> The biggest issue to me, so far, is the GDDR6X, it consumes an absolutely insane amount of power. This was measured in the middle of a 3DMark Time Spy Extreme run. Look at this, even at 61% memory controller load, the MVDDC (memory subsystem) is pushing 115W(!) of the 375W budget my card has... and there are games and workloads that demand more out of it.
> 
> ...



Agree 100%, even on my 3080 I see the memory hogging down power sometimes and you can undervolt the core by a good amount on ampere and get the power consumption down but the memory will still hog down power to the point that sometimes you can actually see the memory using more than the core when playing games that aren't using the core much often. AMDls solution was as you said pretty great in those regards.


----------



## evernessince (Jun 3, 2021)

TheinsanegamerN said:


> I love the peanut gallery throwing out anecdotes about how PC gaming is totally dying and everyone is going to go buy consoles. Yeah, I cant get a GPU right now so I'm gonna drop high end GPU money on a console that cant do 4k60/1440p144 at ALL and can barely do 4k30/1440p60 (1080p60 for PS5 since it cant even do 1440p LMFAO) with a totally closed environment with no competition and stuck with joystick controls.
> 
> Whatever you're smoking to come up with that argument, you can keep it, cause its garbage.
> 
> Also daily reminder that the 8800 ultra launch for the equivalent of $1100 in 2006. Prices go up, prices go down.  LOLCALMDOWN



You misunderstood the argument prior commenters were making.

The problem is the pricing increases of GPUs in general and the complete lack of any improvements in the budget market, not temporary pricing during the pandemic.  The pandemic is a separate problem that inflates prices across the board.

The pandemic is not forever, what people are worried about is that even if it does go, that still leaves little room for budget options and it won't change the fact that Nvidia is still charging $1,200 for this card.  Consoles on the other hand will return to their MSRP of $500.

Most people are aware of the drawbacks of consoles, you don't have to point that out.  That said at $500, if Nvidia / AMD completely fail to address the budget market you can't really blame those people for considering console when in fact Nvidia / AMD aren't even providing products most people can afford.  PC elitists seem to forget that the PC market is held up mostly by budget and midrange where the vast majority of gamers reside.  No amount of "Well PC can do this..." will change the price.  If a person can't afford it they can't buy it, if a person thinks it isn't worth it they will spend their money elsewhere.

Speaking of the 8800 ultra:

"The 8800 Ultra, retailing at a higher price,[_clarification needed_] is identical to the GTX architecturally, but features higher clocked shaders, core and memory. Nvidia later[_when?_] told the media the 8800 Ultra was a new stepping,[_clarification needed_] creating less heat[_clarification needed_] therefore clocking higher. Originally retailing from $800 to $1000, most users thought the card to be a poor value, offering only 10% more performance than the GTX but costing hundreds of dollars more. Prices dropped to as low as $200 before being discontinued on January 23, 2008."






						GeForce 8 series - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




At the time that card released it was roundly criticized by the press for being extremely poor value and that was for a 10% gain on a 30% price increase.  The 3080 Ti is a 7% increase for 70% more money.  I'm glad you brought that up because it just objectively shows how piss poor value the 3080 Ti is even compared to more extreme examples.  Mind you that was still a single overpriced card.  Nvidia has been increasing the ASP across their entire GPU stack, not just a single model.


----------



## lemoncarbonate (Jun 3, 2021)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> Pascal was the last great generation from nvidia the 1060 offered unbelievable value for 1080p gaming, the 1070 gave you 980ti performance at 50% less power, the 1080 was great for 1440p, and lastly how can you forget the 1080ti, a card so good, it blew the industry away with its capabilities and armed with 11gb of gddr5x.
> 
> ever since rtx 2000 series nvidia made no real improvements in performance and power efficiency, just focusing on raytracing and DLSS, rtx 3000 is even worse, abysmal power efficiency( up to 500w on rtx 3090!!!!), lackluster VRAM ( aside from 3060 and 3090), overheating gddr6x memory, no stock, and pointless SKUs like the this 3080ti,... wtf is going on at nvidia ??!!!
> 
> just when high resolution high refreshrate gaming started to becomes a reallity for everyone nvidia went full L since rtx 2000 series, no one wants ray tracing, we want 4k 144fps gaming, look how rtx 3060 promises rtx 2060 Super performance at 170watts, the 2060 super gave you gtx 1080 performance at 190watts, the gtx 1080 was 180watts gpu !!!   NO REAL POWER EFFICIENCY IMPROVEMENTS SINCE 2016 !!!! AND THEY CHARGE YOU MORE


I can still remember clearly when consumer and media were very amazed that GTX 1080 only uses 1x 8pin to deliver flagship performance. Even GTX 1080 Ti with 8+6pin was considered power hungry at that time. I thought we were heading to a good direction with 20, 30, and 40 series and beyond in terms of power efficiency, apparently not 

1060 was a phenomenal card, Nvidia will not be able to beat it with the current increasing MSRP. xx60 will reach xx80's price in the near future, as @RedelZaVedno said here:


RedelZaVedno said:


> It's not meaningless in the long run... just look at the direction MSRP prices are headed: GTX 680 = $499 / 780TI =$699 / 980TI = $649 / 1080TI = $699 / 2080TI = $999 / 3080TI =$1.199... 240% price hike in 9 years (18% inflation in this period). Elevated MSRPs are here to stay even after mining graze ends.


----------



## r9 (Jun 3, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> Cards go on sale tomorrow


So he is right on time


----------



## nguyen (Jun 3, 2021)

lemoncarbonate said:


> I can still remember clearly when consumer and media were very amazed that GTX 1080 only uses 1x 8pin to deliver flagship performance. Even GTX 1080 Ti with 8+6pin was considered power hungry at that time. I thought we were heading to a good direction with 20, 30, and 40 series and beyond in terms of power efficiency, apparently not
> 
> 1060 was a phenomenal card, Nvidia will not be able to beat it with the current increasing MSRP. xx60 will reach xx80's price in the near future, as @RedelZaVedno said here:



Who cares about maximum power consumption when you can tweak the power limits to your liking, reducing power consumption will increase efficiency, demonstrated by the mobile GPU. 

Infact you should be thankful that Nvidia/AMD keep increasing the maximum power limits on their desktop GPU because they have to design better VRMs to accomodate higher power consumption limits, better VRM --> higher VRM efficiency. Let say you have 6 phrase VRM that have 20W power loss at 150W TGP before, now you have 10+ phrase VRM that have only 10W power loss at 150W TGP

1660 Super was a super fine GPU at 230usd


----------



## blu3dragon (Jun 3, 2021)

Great review as usual.

Disappointing that $500 doesn't even get better thermal pads over the 3080.  That card at msrp was exciting.  This one not so much.  Same number of vrms as well, although they repositioned one?  Looks like very, very limited availability for the FE as well.  I guess that was to be expected, but this time around seems even lower with best buy only selling in person at a limited number of stores.


----------



## HD64G (Jun 3, 2021)

And here is why the use of 5800X is a bottleneck for top-of-the-line GPU reviews now-a-days since some games properly utilise more threads



Surely our @W1zzard tested somewhere else in the game but the difference between 3080 and 6900XT in his review is 0 compared to the 13% in the HU review.


----------



## evernessince (Jun 3, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Who cares about maximum power consumption when you can tweak the power limits to your liking, reducing power consumption will increase efficiency, demonstrated by the mobile GPU.
> 
> Infact you should be thankful that Nvidia/AMD keep increasing the maximum power limits on their desktop GPU because they have to design better VRMs to accomodate higher power consumption limits, better VRM --> higher VRM efficiency. Let say you have 6 phrase VRM that have 20W power loss at 150W TGP before, now you have 10+ phrase VRM that have only 10W power loss at 150W TGP
> 
> 1660 Super was a super fine GPU at 230usd



A vast majority of consumers aren't going to tweak power limits.  IMO it's frankly annoying to have another program running in the background and another source of potential issues.

That's not a problem customers should have to solve either.  This is just like AMD users who were claiming AMD Vega is power efficient once you under-volt.  That's great and all but it doesn't mean squat to the vast majority of users.  Companies should ship products that hit their target markets out of the box.  Customers should not have to fiddle with products after the fact.  That's for enthusiasts if they want to spend the extra effort.


----------



## Legacy-ZA (Jun 3, 2021)

Is anyone here on this forum a reseller and can actually get these cards at MSRP?


----------



## watzupken (Jun 3, 2021)

Dr. Dro said:


> Personal opinion, but I believe that the Samsung 8 nm process isn't the reason these GPUs are so "power inefficient" (as in, hungry). This is most noticeable on the RTX 3070, I would go as far as saying that it's quite lean on power for the awesome amount of performance it provides, and I'm quite eager to see w1zz's review and the impact of GDDR6X on the 3070 Ti's power consumption and frametime stability, given that for all we know from rumor mills, they are coming with similar power limits to the vanilla 3070 variety. Being on this node is also positive for yield, as it doesn't have to compete with the numerous other products and orders that require TSMC 7 nm capacity, like AMD's entire product stack. "nm" is just marketing anyway, the actual transistor pitch isn't that small.
> 
> The biggest issue to me, so far, is the GDDR6X, it consumes an absolutely insane amount of power. This was measured in the middle of a 3DMark Time Spy Extreme run. Look at this, even at 61% memory controller load, the MVDDC (memory subsystem) is pushing 115W(!) of the 375W budget my card has... and there are games and workloads that demand more out of it.
> 
> ...


I feel GDDR6X is a stop gap solution for a faster GDDR standard. Its almost similar to GDDR5X that never had a future beyond Nvidia's Pascal. As a result, of pushing such high clockspeed as compared to GDDR6, a lot of power is required. I wasn't very sure if GDDR6 uses that much power until I noticed the TGP of the RTX 3070 vs 3070 Ti. And in this case, its got only 8x GDDR6X 1GB. When you have 10, 12 or 24 of hot and power hungry RAM onboard, that will increase power requirement drastically. And I do agree that AMD's Infinity Cache is a great way to go around this power requirement and yet achieve better or comparable memory bandwidth. 

As to Samsung's 8nm, while it is certainly more efficient than what its replacing, I don't necessarily think that its good. Its been proven that Samsung's 7nm is not as good as TSMC's 7nm, not to mention this supposed 8nm is basically Samsung's refined 10nm. Most of these RTX 3xxx runs at a fairly conservative clockspeed, i.e. around 1.8 Ghz, to keep power consumption in check. You can push it further into the 1.9GHz range, but that is generally with a +15% power limit applied. The saving grace here is probably Nvidia's Ampere architecture with ample memory bandwidth, and less of the 8nm Samsung node in my opinion.



evernessince said:


> A vast majority of consumers aren't going to tweak power limits.  IMO it's frankly annoying to have another program running in the background and another source of potential issues.
> 
> That's not a problem customers should have to solve either.  This is just like AMD users who were claiming AMD Vega is power efficient once you under-volt.  That's great and all but it doesn't mean squat to the vast majority of users.  Companies should ship products that hit their target markets out of the box.  Customers should not have to fiddle with products after the fact.  That's for enthusiasts if they want to spend the extra effort.


Companies ship product that works. Therefore, they ship with settings that are what they deem as "safe" to make sure the product works according to specs. They can't possibly test every chip that comes in and provide a custom setting each time. 

In my opinion, its the people that are savvy that will figure out something is not right, and will try and fix it, i.e. fiddle with the power limits, etc. For people that are not savvy, they probably will live with it since while it runs hot, it works.


----------



## Chomiq (Jun 3, 2021)

HD64G said:


> And here is why the use of 5800X is a bottleneck for top-of-the-line GPU reviews now-a-days since some games properly utilise more threads
> View attachment 202635
> Surely our @W1zzard tested somewhere else in the game but the difference between 3080 and 6900XT in his review is 0 compared to the 13% in the HU review.


Dude, watch any YT video with RivaTuner running on a 5950X and 3090. An engine designed around Jaguar cores isn't going to utilize 32 threads:


----------



## evernessince (Jun 3, 2021)

watzupken said:


> Companies ship product that works. Therefore, they ship with settings that are what they deem as "safe" to make sure the product works according to specs. They can't possibly test every chip that comes in and provide a custom setting each time.
> 
> In my opinion, its the people that are savvy that will figure out something is not right, and will try and fix it, i.e. fiddle with the power limits, etc. For people that are not savvy, they probably will live with it since while it runs hot, it works.



This is simply not true given that both AMD (for CPUs and GPUs) and Nvidia have dynamic boost features that will give the end user extra performance depending on specific silicon quality and temperature.  AMD's dynamic boosting for it's CPUs in particular does an excellent job to the point where manual tuning isn't needed and can actually yield less performance than the automatic boosting system.


----------



## las (Jun 3, 2021)

3080 Ti and 3090 have their place .. For 4K-5K gaming

I will keep my 3080 till 4070-4080 launches in late 2022 tho or wait for refreshes in 2023 if pricing and availablity have not normalized by 2H 2022

Or maybe I will consider Radeon 7800XT/8800XT, if AMD can keep up the pace


----------



## W1zzard (Jun 3, 2021)

HD64G said:


> Surely our @W1zzard tested somewhere else in the game but the difference between 3080 and 6900XT in his review is 0 compared to the 13% in the HU review.


Probably test scene, either way not worth spending the money, send me a 5950X if you want, I'll use it



wtfbbqlol said:


> Is there something wrong about the Cyberpunk 2077 ray-tracing results? The RX6000 series non-RT vs RT results are the same...


Fixing. 6000 Series shouldn't be included here, haven't retested them yet with RT on, because I'm locking in a specific patch version for Cyberpunk until I do a full retest


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jun 3, 2021)

evernessince said:


> A vast majority of consumers aren't going to tweak power limits.  IMO it's frankly annoying to have another program running in the background and another source of potential issues.
> 
> That's not a problem customers should have to solve either.  This is just like AMD users who were claiming AMD Vega is power efficient once you under-volt.  That's great and all but it doesn't mean squat to the vast majority of users.  Companies should ship products that hit their target markets out of the box.  Customers should not have to fiddle with products after the fact.  That's for enthusiasts if they want to spend the extra effort.


One defence in AMD's favour is that they offered not one, but _three _solutions to that.

1. Hardware switch on all vega models that switched between a normal and quiet BIOS with lower TDP
2. Set-and-forget presets in the drivers that required no undervolting experience - power saver, default, turbo
3. A full undervolting suite with arguably more tuning than even MSI Afterburner built in - so no annoying other program running in the background.

So AMD's defaults were "hot and loud" but even people who didn't want to tinker had two viable options to get far greater power-efficiency. I've been saying it for years, but Nvidia needs to offer basic tuning and fan curve control in their drivers. Afterburner is a necessary evil that looks like it belongs in the Windows XP era.


----------



## phill (Jun 3, 2021)

Just as much as I thought sadly, not much extra performance for a shed load more cash, I mean, $700 to $1200??  Nah...  

Don't flame me here but I think I'd rather take the 6900 XT model over the 3080 Ti at this point for just the numbers.  Those new AMD cards are utterly amazing, sold out, sold out everywhere or stupidly priced but still...    

And the memory temps as well and that's just in game, I'd hate to see what it will be like when they get them mining.....  You know it'll happen and it's just a sad fact that it will...  Oh well    I'll stick with the cards I've got...  I'm happy regardless!


----------



## evernessince (Jun 3, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> One defence in AMD's favour is that they offered not one, but _three _solutions to that.
> 
> 1. Hardware switch on all vega models that switched between a normal and quiet BIOS with lower TDP
> 2. Set-and-forget presets in the drivers that required no undervolting experience - power saver, default, turbo
> ...



Yes, in that regard AMD is a lot better.


----------



## HD64G (Jun 3, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> Dude, watch any YT video with RivaTuner running on a 5950X and 3090. An engine designed around Jaguar cores isn't going to utilize 32 threads:
> View attachment 202648


Numbers do not lie. And it isn't the only game to take advantage of more threads than 16 if combined with the most powerful GPUs of today.



W1zzard said:


> Probably test scene, either way not worth spending the money, send me a 5950X if you want, I'll use it


@W1zzard don't take it wrongly. I deeply respect your work all these years for us PC enthusiasts. So, I don't even dare to say to you what to do with your test system, I just imply that for high performance GPUs of today, in order not to bottleneck them, you need more than an 8-core CPU, no matter how fast it is. And as for the test scene, the bottleneck in your system seems to exist in most of the newest games (DX12 and Vulkan better utilise more than 16-threads or more cache)


----------



## Xaled (Jun 3, 2021)

Reviewing this unavailable series is not ethical anymore, let alone the Fraudy Edition which never really existed and were always unavailable.


----------



## nguyen (Jun 3, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> One defence in AMD's favour is that they offered not one, but _three _solutions to that.
> 
> 1. Hardware switch on all vega models that switched between a normal and quiet BIOS with lower TDP
> 2. Set-and-forget presets in the drivers that required no undervolting experience - power saver, default, turbo
> ...



Wasn't the fan curve tuning in AMD software broken? and Enhanced Sync is also broken?

The problem with Vega was that the Pascal was in another league in term of efficiency 




Even if you set the Vega64 to powersave BIOS, the GTX1080 is still 40% more efficient, simply an insurmountable difference.


----------



## W1zzard (Jun 3, 2021)

HD64G said:


> And as for the test scene, the bottleneck in your system seems to exist in most of the newest games (DX12 and Vulkan better utilise more than 16-threads or more cache)


Where do you see the bottleneck in those two games? Just "higher FPS" ? That means lighter test scene, not bottleneck. Bottleneck is when many results are bunched up against an invisible wall, like in DoS II in my tests, or Death Stranding, and that goes away at higher resolution


----------



## HD64G (Jun 3, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> Where do you see the bottleneck in those two games? Just "higher FPS" ? That means lighter test scene, not bottleneck. Bottleneck is when many results are bunched up against an invisible wall, like in DoS II in my tests, or Death Stranding, and that goes away at higher resolution


The difference between RX6900XT vs RTX3090 in Death Stranding @1080P is +7% in HU and -2% in your review. And for Watchdogs Legion, while in HU test 6900 wins with 14%, in your test wins for 8%. That seems to be a clear sign of bottleneck imho. Open to other theories though. I like to learn new things, especially from a pro like you.


----------



## W1zzard (Jun 3, 2021)

HD64G said:


> The difference between RX6900XT vs RTX3090 in Death Stranding @1080P is +7% in HU and -2% in your review. And for Watchdogs Legion, while in HU test 6900 wins with 14%, in your test wins for 8%. That seems to be a clear sign of bottleneck imho. Open to other theories though. I like to learn new things, especially from a pro like you.


Maybe different definition of bottleneck. I'm sure if you look, you can find other results showing the opposite. I'd say this is first and foremost test scene selection, then test platform differences, like memory freq and timings (they use 32 GB 3200CL14 DR, we use 16 GB 4000CL19 SR) and then maybe CPU speed (5800X vs 5950X). I don't think one is more correct than the other, but certainly one will please you more than the other.

This is great, gives you more data, so you can come to your own conclusions. If we all had the same benchmark results, they'd become meaningless and we'd all be left having to try to entertain our audience in other ways to get their attention


----------



## HD64G (Jun 3, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> Maybe different definition of bottleneck. I'm sure if you look, you can find other results showing the opposite. I'd say this is first and foremost test scene selection, then test platform differences, like memory freq and timings (they use 32 GB 3200CL14 DR, we use 16 GB 4000CL19 SR) and then maybe CPU speed (5800X vs 5950X). I don't think one is more correct than the other, but certainly one will please you more than the other.
> 
> This is great, gives you more data, so you can come to your own conclusions. If we all had the same benchmark results, they'd become meaningless and we'd all be left having to try to entertain our audience in other ways to get their attention


No problem at all @W1zzard. I enjoyed our discussion. Just another clue for the HU's test results: he didn't use the SAM feature.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 3, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> we'd all be left having to try to entertain our audience in other ways to get their attention


Like that time you drank articlean?


----------



## W1zzard (Jun 3, 2021)

HD64G said:


> No problem at all @W1zzard. I enjoyed our discussion. Just another clue for the HU's test results: he didn't use the SAM feature.


Oh that could explain it, too.



Mussels said:


> Like that time you drank articlean?


Lol, that was so long ago, and I tasted it, not drink, for science


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jun 3, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Wasn't the fan curve tuning in AMD software broken? and Enhanced Sync is also broken?
> 
> The problem with Vega was that the Pascal was in another league in term of efficiency
> 
> ...


Sounds like FUD to me. Some partner models with custom boards, fan controllers, vBIOSes perhaps, but that's on the partners and the same issues exist with Nvidia cards and Afterburner not being able to control the fan speeds properly or at all.

I have experience with 50+ Vega and Polaris cards, most of them reference models, and can't say I had a problem with fan speed tuning other than a couple of partner models not matching their RPM in the driver exactly to what GPU-Z reported - but you could still tune them faster or slower without problems which is better than absolutely no control whatsoever from Nvidia's control panel.

Not sure about enhanced sync, seems like a shit idea anyway so I never used it - why would you not just use freesync instead? If you're on an ancient 60Hz monitor and can't hit 60fps then it's going to be ugly no matter whether you run vsync on, off, or enhanced.

As for Vega's efficiency, that's not the topic we're discussing and even the driver/tuning stuff we're talking about is already pretty far OT.


----------



## N3M3515 (Jun 3, 2021)

TheinsanegamerN said:


> I love the peanut gallery throwing out anecdotes about how PC gaming is totally dying and everyone is going to go buy consoles. Yeah, I cant get a GPU right now so I'm gonna drop high end GPU money on a console that cant do 4k60/1440p144 at ALL and can barely do 4k30/1440p60 (1080p60 for PS5 since it cant even do 1440p LMFAO) with a totally closed environment with no competition and stuck with joystick controls.
> 
> Whatever you're smoking to come up with that argument, you can keep it, cause its garbage.
> 
> Also daily reminder that the 8800 ultra launch for the equivalent of $1100 in 2006. Prices go up, prices go down.  LOLCALMDOWN


That anomaly was because lack of competition from amd, unlike now.


----------



## Dr. Dro (Jun 3, 2021)

Mussels said:


> *Begins crying*
> *Uses tears to fill my EK block and watercool the VRAM with an active backplate*
> 
> Yeah its a problem, and something the Ti should have resolved. They clearly just used the existing cooling setups with zero changes.



Yup, I agree, man. Improving the memory cooling would go a long way into making Ampere a better product overall, even though AIB designs exist, even the overbuilt cards like the Strix have some difficulty with that.

My TUF has been adequate on that front but the assembly is superb, and well, I keep my computer obsessively clean and I'm using it on a case that has a small hurricane going on, it's an PC-O11 Air with 12 fans installed or so. Not a quiet system exactly, even though it's whisper quiet to anyone used to blower Vega cards (like me). I swear my old Frontier left my right ear a bit deaf


----------



## r9 (Jun 3, 2021)

lemoncarbonate said:


> 5-10% performance increase over 3080 with >50% MSRP increase. Good job Nvidia.. good job.


They are eliminating the scalpers by scalping themselves.
This should be illegal by all means, they are exploiting the situation that is mainly their fault and this is not only directed at NVIDIA but AMD as well. 
Let's say the realistic MSRP is $800 and they are making 25% profit that is $200 per card. 
With $1200 MSRP on the same card they are making $200 + $400 = $600 basically by selling one card they are making the same profit as selling 3 cards probable even more as their cost  is lower to make and distribute etc. 
So I don't see any incentive for either NVIDIA or AMD to produce more cards really and this is where somebody should sue their assess off.


----------



## Dr. Dro (Jun 3, 2021)

r9 said:


> They are eliminating the scalpers by scalping themselves.
> This should be illegal by all means, they are exploiting the situation that is mainly their fault and this is not only directed at NVIDIA but AMD as well.
> Let's say the realistic MSRP is $800 and they are making 25% profit that is $200 per card.
> With $1200 MSRP on the same card they are making $200 + $400 = $600 basically by selling one card they are making the same profit as selling 3 cards probable even more as their cost  is lower to make and distribute etc.
> So I don't see any incentive for either NVIDIA or AMD to produce more cards really and this is where somebody should sue their assess off.



The problem is that GPUs aren't essential goods, the market conditions (shipment/freight limitations and delays due to the ongoing pandemic, strained production capacity, overwhelming demand and increase in BOM from their suppliers increasing costs, including TSMC, plus silicon quality binning, i.e. 6900 XT XOC models with Navi 21 XTXH ASIC come to mind) are favorable to a price hike, and the MSRP is defined by the manufacturer regardless of whether it's high or low. There's also the concern that when you buy a graphics card, you don't only buy the components that go in it - you buy the ongoing driver development throughout its lifecycle (graphics KMD engineers and QA departments are expensive!) and foot the R&D costs for the future generations' development and their surrounding features (even more expensive).

End of the day, AMD, NVIDIA and Intel all have something in common: they're all multi-billion-dollar corporations with the sole purpose of making money, and all of them are guilty of anti-consumer shenanigans in recent times.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Jun 3, 2021)

What a joke of a price. Double the MSRP for 2 GB of extra VRAM.

And as I thought, the 3070 Ti is 8GB G6X. Makes me glad I went with the regular 3070 because my G6 isn't running at the temperature of the surface of Mercury.


----------



## W1zzard (Jun 3, 2021)

r9 said:


> So I don't see any incentive for either NVIDIA or AMD to produce more cards really


Not true. If you produce more, you sell more and make more profit. Even if the price per unit goes down a bit, and you sell more, you still make more profit


----------



## Totally (Jun 4, 2021)

Dang this card is a hungry boi.


----------



## ThrashZone (Jun 4, 2021)

r9 said:


> They are eliminating the scalpers by scalping themselves.
> This should be illegal by all means, they are exploiting the situation that is mainly their fault and this is not only directed at NVIDIA but AMD as well.
> Let's say the realistic MSRP is $800 and they are making 25% profit that is $200 per card.
> With $1200 MSRP on the same card they are making $200 + $400 = $600 basically by selling one card they are making the same profit as selling 3 cards probable even more as their cost  is lower to make and distribute etc.
> So I don't see any incentive for either NVIDIA or AMD to produce more cards really and this is where somebody should sue their assess off.


Hi,
Last I read there is a tariff cost added to the cards maybe there are still tariffs on imports to the USA but I would of thought current administration would of stopped them by now guess not.


----------



## r9 (Jun 4, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> Not true. If you produce more, you sell more and make more profit. Even if the price per unit goes down a bit, and you sell more, you still make more profit


"NVIDIA (NASDAQ: NVDA) today reported record revenue for the first quarter ended May 2, 2021, of $5.66 billion, up 84 percent from a year earlier and up 13 percent from the previous quarter, with record revenue from the company's Gaming, Data Center and Professional Visualization platforms.May 26, 2021" 
They doubled their revenue during "shortage".
Let's agree to disagree.


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## TheinsanegamerN (Jun 4, 2021)

evernessince said:


> You misunderstood the argument prior commenters were making.
> 
> The problem is the pricing increases of GPUs in general and the complete lack of any improvements in the budget market, not temporary pricing during the pandemic.  The pandemic is a separate problem that inflates prices across the board.
> 
> ...


People complaining about high GPU prices pre pandemic seem to have utterly forgotten that this decade we have had: 

The competitive 7000 series bringing HD gaming performance to the $100 segment
The 290x retailing for under $300 for nearly a year
The RX 480/580/470/570/560 being fantastic budget cards for 3 years running, well into 2019. 

And on the high end, you had
The $650 980ti that was an OC beast
The $700 1080ti that became a high end champion for nearly half a decade
The 3080 launching at just $700 while obliterating 2080ti performance
The 6800xt launching at $650 with more VRAM and better non RT performance. 

The elevated MSRP and lack of budget cards is a VERY RECENT development that has largely occurred during the pandemic. Thinking that these price increases are permanent is hilariously short sighted. People were forecasting the doom of the PC gaming industry in 2007 too, and within 2 years the evergreen GPU lineup from AMD smashed predictions for what could be had on a budget and forced nvidia's hand, giving us the $500 flagship era. 

As for "citation needed", have a review from anandtech for the launch of the 8800 ultra, instead of some garbage wikipedia entry:






						New Ultra High End Price Point With GeForce 8800 Ultra
					






					www.anandtech.com
				




No one is forcing you to buy these expensive cards, and their presence will not stop budget cards from existing anymore then the existence of the bugatti veyron means you cant buy a honda civic. With modern process nodes running at capacity, the priority is going to be on higher end cards until supply improves and prices drop. Not to mention the continuing supply issues from the pandemic, from labor shortages to electronics supply restrictions. Pieces used to make the fans for cards, the capacitors on cards, ece are all in short supply. 

And no amount of "well you cant get budget cards right now but these consoles are only $500" is going to convince people to A. abandon the library of PC games they have already acquired and B. invest in a closed platform that appeals to a different market, especially when C. those consoles are in JUST AS SHORT OF SUPPLY as GPUs are.  Good luck buying consoles right now for anywhere near MSRP. 

Budget cards will return. Supply will normalize eventually. IDK why people are so insistent that everything has changed permanently forever when the pandemic isnt even over yet and its effects will continue for some time afterwards. Just wait. Go outside and take a break from the PC, or play the literal decades of backwards compatible games that will run toaster GPUs. You may find you dont need a high end GPU to enjoy gaming.


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## N3M3515 (Jun 4, 2021)

TheinsanegamerN said:


> The 3080 launching at just $700 while obliterating 2080ti performance


Just $700 BECAUSE the 2080Ti was ridiculously overpriced, that's an illusion. $700 - overpriced.
6800XT at $650 BECAUSE 3080 was at $700 and had DLSS.

Anything from TOURING(turding) has been disgustingly overpriced. You should never EVER take any touring product as an example for comparisons.


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## evernessince (Jun 4, 2021)

TheinsanegamerN said:


> People complaining about high GPU prices pre pandemic seem to have utterly forgotten that this decade we have had:
> 
> The competitive 7000 series bringing HD gaming performance to the $100 segment
> The 290x retailing for under $300 for nearly a year
> ...



The RX 580 / 480 / ect are still some of the best price / performance cards.  That's the point, there's been zero improvement in regard to performance per dollar.  Cards in the xx60 class used to cost $200, now they are $330 or $280 if want a further cut down version.

Obliterating 2080 ti performance is not impressive.  28% performance gain with single digit efficiency gains, memory size stagnation, and a massive price hike.  It'd debatable which was worse, turing or Fermi.  $700 only looks good in respect to the waste of sand that was turing.  The 3080 guzzles down power to boot and an complete lack of improvement to VRAM sizes over 2 generations, save for the crazy priced 3090 and oddball 3060.  The 30xx series doesn't hold a candle to pascal.

The MSRP increased as only as "recent" as 2016, when Nvidia increased pricing on the 10xxx series by $50 across the board (which impacts budget cards more than higher end ones).  Then they promptly made a massive increase with Turing.  Mind you this is in addition to other things Nvidia has been doing to increase profits, like staggering top end GPU releases to milk people at the top and keeping VRAM amount on cards down.  The pricing increase was ignored by many for Pascal because the performance and efficiency gains.  Pricing continued to climb after that though, despite future generations not warranting Pascal level pricing, let alone the garbage that we got with turing.

Those other examples aren't really relevant.  They don't dubunk or even touch upon the topic of video card pricing trending upwords as of the last 6 years.  I own a 1080 Ti and owned a 980 Ti.  Neither of those card's prices excuse the pricing trend we are discussing.




TheinsanegamerN said:


> As for "citation needed", have a review from anandtech for the launch of the 8800 ultra, instead of some garbage wikipedia entry:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


From that article:

"The NVIDIA GeForce 8800 Ultra is an utter waste of money. "



TheinsanegamerN said:


> No one is forcing you to buy these expensive cards, and their presence will not stop budget cards from existing anymore then the existence of the bugatti veyron means you cant buy a honda civic.



Classic Tu Quoque argument.  Whether or not someone is forcing anyone to buy these cards does not change the points presented in favor of the argument being made against increasing GPU prices.

The comparison is also illgocial.  All car prices on the market did not increase when each Bugatti was released.  In the GPU market though video card prices did in fact increase across the board with the 10xx and 20xx series.  This would be like charging $15,000 more for entry level cars each time a new model is released.  That would more then piss off a majority of drivers.  In addition, the xx80 ti card isn't the bugatti.  Bugatti is top of the top.  The 3080 Ti / 2080 Ti aren't even the top of the stack for Nvidia's consumer cards, let alone it's higher end professional cards.  Technically no one is forcing you to buy a Car either, see how that works?  Just insensitive.



TheinsanegamerN said:


> With modern process nodes running at capacity, the priority is going to be on higher end cards until supply improves and prices drop. Not to mention the continuing supply issues from the pandemic, from labor shortages to electronics supply restrictions. Pieces used to make the fans for cards, the capacitors on cards, ece are all in short supply.



As I pointed out earlier, these pricing increases and lack of improvements to the budget category vastly predated this pandemic.



TheinsanegamerN said:


> And no amount of "well you cant get budget cards right now but these consoles are only $500" is going to convince people to A. abandon the library of PC games they have already acquired and B. invest in a closed platform that appeals to a different market, especially when C. those consoles are in JUST AS SHORT OF SUPPLY as GPUs are.  Good luck buying consoles right now for anywhere near MSRP.



Again, I specifically addressed this in my 2nd sentence of my last comment:

"The problem is the pricing increases of GPUs in general and the complete lack of any improvements in the budget market, not temporary pricing during the pandemic.  The pandemic is a separate problem that inflates prices across the board."

If both consoles and video cards drop down to MSRP, consoles are a heck of a lot more appealing.

I'm not so sure people have to abandon their library of PC games either or whether that's such a big deal to many people if they do.  To a person who only has a PC that might be a big deal but for a person whom already has a PC and console, they may simply curtail their PC spending.  Unless they sell their PC they wouldn't have to give up their game library anyways. 

PC has a large overlap with consoles, it's called gaming.  People will still need machines to do school / work but those kind of tasks can be handled by a cheap desktop or increasingly chromebooks / mobile devices.  There's a percentage of PC users that can't switch off the platform but the vast majority are much more free to switch than you imply here.   You are coming at this from a PC enthusiast's perspective where you are so ingrained in the ecosystem that you can't see how the market could shift.



TheinsanegamerN said:


> Budget cards will return. Supply will normalize eventually. IDK why people are so insistent that everything has changed permanently forever when the pandemic isnt even over yet and its effects will continue for some time afterwards. Just wait. Go outside and take a break from the PC, or play the literal decades of backwards compatible games that will run toaster GPUs. You may find you dont need a high end GPU to enjoy gaming.



People aren't insistent that everything HAS changed permanently.  People are noting the price increases and they are either A) considering a move to consoles IF conditions don't improve B) Giving their opinion on where the market WILL be.  You are creating an alternative argument that's an inflated version in your head and then debating that argument which no one has said.  AKA a strawman.

If you believe that Budget cards will return then you should not be here debating against people complaining about GPU pricing.  Your comments are only fostering an environment that encourages companies to keep prices high and/or increase them further.  You are trying to dismiss people's opinions by saying that no one is forcing them to buy or that we should be thankful Nvidia / AMD ever deemed to grace us with budget cards of years past.  You believe that budget card will return but don't want to be apart of the solution.


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## nguyen (Jun 4, 2021)

Good news is 3080 Ti are slight cheaper than 3080 in my country, bad news is they are all 2000usd+


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## Dr. Dro (Jun 4, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Good news is 3080 Ti are slight cheaper than 3080 in my country, bad news is they are all 2000usd+



They arrived here in Brazil ranging from 16,299 BRL (~$3300 USD), for the basic Zotac Trinity to 18,999 BRL (~$3750 USD) for the Gigabyte Aorus Xtreme in our country's largest tech e-commerce, KaBuM, which is where I purchased my 3090 on launch day for 13,339 BRL last year... single most expensive thing I have ever owned, by the way... afforded only by pure chance and the fact I was able to sell my Radeon VII to a miner for a nearly 100% profit on it, and he bought it smiling... I kinda regret it now, tbh.

With the exchange rates from September 24, 2020 of 1 USD x 5,65 BRL, - that turns out to be around ~$2300 USD if my quick math serves me right, which is exactly where an $1600 (back then) MSRP product would be accounting for import taxes and duties. That means that these newer 3080 Ti cards are up to $1450 USD pricier than what I paid on my card - and they're also an inferior model. Utter insanity.


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## Mussels (Jun 4, 2021)

[Cries in Au]


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## Legacy-ZA (Jun 4, 2021)

No thank you, $3750 for a ZOTAC? Bwhahahahahahahaha.


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## altermere (Jun 5, 2021)

The first phase was release and relatively quick sold out everywhere on normal operations.

The second phase was AIBs only making the highest tier cards. Only the FTW Xtreme Suprim top end available and none of the lower end ones. So, 3090 only and no 3080. Only 3070 and no 3060Ti, etc.

The third phase was increased prices citing the tariffs.

The fourth phase, we are now in, is sell a prebuilt system with the GPU in it but if you factor in all the costs, it is close to the scalper prices for the GPU. Plus, there's 1-3 month custom order wait time because no one has reasonably priced prebuilts in stock. Newegg also aggressively started bundling.

I don't know what the next phase it. Some even say the fifth phase is starting with prebuilts slowly creeping their prices up and dumping Intel systems or old Ryzen builds.

Either bite the bullet and get it now and tune everything out. Or, sit this one out and just forget about it.


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## mechtech (Jun 5, 2021)

Mussels said:


> [Cries in Au]


$1500-$2500 here in the great white north (Canada) w/o the 13% tax.............I would buy a few appliances before a vid card.


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## WikiFM (Jun 6, 2021)

@W1zzard Why the raytracing charts in Control have DLSS activated on AMD cards?


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## W1zzard (Jun 6, 2021)

WikiFM said:


> @W1zzard Why the raytracing charts in Control have DLSS activated on AMD cards?


My scripts failed at making the charts :/ this is fixed now, thanks!


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## Chrispy_ (Jun 7, 2021)

CyberPunkling said:


> I don't know what the next phase it. Some even say the fifth phase is starting with prebuilts slowly creeping their prices up and dumping Intel systems or old Ryzen builds.



We've been in the fifth phase for 6 months already - I've seen plenty of Ampere cards paired with a 2700X or 9600K just to clear out previous gen motherboards and CPUs.


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## human_error (Jun 8, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> We've been in the fifth phase for 6 months already - I've seen plenty of Ampere cards paired with a 2700X or 9600K just to clear out previous gen motherboards and CPUs.


They've been bundling them with gaming chairs and all sorts of nonsense over here (UK).


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## Deleted member 205776 (Jun 12, 2021)

elghinnarisa said:


> I can quite easily drop my power consumption on my 3070 down from 240w to 180w with a performance loss of ~3%, 1980Mhz down to 1910Mhz for a much lower power consumption


I can easily drop my power consumption on my 3070 down from 240w to 180-200w with a performance loss *increase*. From 1995 MHz stock to 2100 MHz undervolted. 

The 3070 is honestly a very efficient card. Reason? Not having the hot power hungry mess that is G6X.

Undervolt and OC your Ampere cards people...


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