# More powerful, more expensive Playstation 5 speculation



## WhoDecidedThat (Jan 2, 2022)

So the current PlayStation 5 has 400$ MSRP. I was wondering, what if Sony had another version (say PlayStation 5X) which had a 70% more powerful GPU. To put it in context, PS5's GPU is about as good as a RX 6600 XT. The 5X GPU I am suggesting would be on par with RX 6800 non-XT. The advantage of the 5x would be that it would allow for higher fps. A game that manages 30fps locked on PS5 ( for example Spider Man Miles Morales with RT ) would be able to reach 60fps locked on 5x (with some quality reductions).

So, how would this hypothetical PS5x do in the market? Would it sell well? What price do you think would be appropriate?


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jan 2, 2022)

blanarahul said:


> So the current PlayStation 5 400$ MSRP. I was wondering, what if Sony had another version (say PlayStation 5X) which had a 70% more powerful GPU. To put it in context, PS5's GPU is about as good as a RX 6600 XT or RTX 3060. The 5X GPU I am suggesting would be on par with RX 6800 non-XT or RTX 3070. The advantage of the 5x would be that it would allow for a higher fps. A game that manages 30fps locked on PS5 would be able to reach 60fps locked on 5x (with some small adjustments). A game that manages 60fps in Quality Mode and 120fps in performance mode would be able to hit 120fps in Quality Mode on 5X etc.
> 
> So, how would this hypothetical PS5x do in the market? Would it sell well? What price do you think would be appropriate?



How would they cool it?


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## WhoDecidedThat (Jan 2, 2022)

Tigger said:


> How would they cool it?


They will have to design and build a separate chassis and cooler for it. The 5X chassis would be bigger to accomodate the larger cooler.


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## Fourstaff (Jan 2, 2022)

Based on the historical trends, we may see a PS5 update either end of this year earliest, or sometime next year. With the current chip shortages, I think the PS5 slim will be more realistic than PS5 Pro. We have not seen the technical teams squeeze every last drop of performance from the PS5 either.


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## ARF (Jan 2, 2022)

I think the PS5 doesn't need any updates.
Why?
Because if they implement performance updates, that would kill the purpose of the PS6 to some extent. Will make the PS5 and PS6 look quite similar, of course unless the PS6 has an ARM RISC groundbreaking revolutionary CPU.



Tigger said:


> How would they cool it?



Liquid nitrogen


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## Lionheart (Jan 2, 2022)

PS5 Pro will eventually come but too soon now.


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## Chomiq (Jan 2, 2022)

Fourstaff said:


> Based on the historical trends, we may see a PS5 update either end of this year earliest, or sometime next year. With the current chip shortages, I think the PS5 slim will be more realistic than PS5 Pro. We have not seen the technical teams squeeze every last drop of performance from the PS5 either.


But we already have the slim, PS5 digital.


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## Kissamies (Jan 2, 2022)

ARF said:


> I think the PS5 doesn't need any updates.
> Why?
> Because if they implement performance updates, that would kill the purpose of the PS6 to some extent. Will make the PS5 and PS6 look quite similar, of course unless the PS6 has an ARM RISC groundbreaking revolutionary CPU.


You could think that why there were PS4 Pro & Xbone X then.. just a refresh with similar but better hardware.


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## ARF (Jan 2, 2022)

Maenad said:


> You could think that why there were PS4 Pro & Xbone X then.. just a refresh with similar but better hardware.



Those were the epic fail aka Bulldozer. They needed it.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 2, 2022)

ARF said:


> Those were the epic fail aka Bulldozer. They needed it.


Those had nothing to do with bulldozer.

Sony wanted more money, they refreshed they're hardware and reinvigorated sales.

You keep pushing high performance arm core's yet they're are no examples of a high performance arm gaming system in the world so where are you extrapolating it's viability from, the switch?!, Phones, the M1?! Which?!


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## Durvelle27 (Jan 2, 2022)

The PS5 does not have a GPU close to the 6600XT. It literally has the exact specs of the RX 6700 and the Series X is more of a Unicorn as it’s specs are higher than the 6700 XT but less than the 6800


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## Kissamies (Jan 2, 2022)

Durvelle27 said:


> The PS5 does not have a GPU close to the 6600XT. It literally has the exact specs of the RX 6700 and the Series X is more of a Unicorn as it’s specs are higher than the 6700 XT but less than the 6800


Yeah and when thinking about optimization on consoles, those push way better than their PC counterparts. Example RSX (the GPU of PS3) is similar to 7800 GTX but try to play any 2010+ titles with that card..


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## QuietBob (Jan 2, 2022)

Durvelle27 said:


> The PS5 does not have a GPU close to the 6600XT. It literally has the exact specs of the RX 6700 and the Series X is more of a Unicorn as it’s specs are higher than the 6700 XT but less than the 6800




shaderTMUROPRTboost clockpixel fillratetexture fillrateGFLOPS single/FP326600XT20481286432258916633110.66700XT25601606440258116541313.2680038402409660210520250516.2Oberon (PS5)23041446436223314332210.3Scarlett (XBSX)33282088052182514638012.2Lockheart (XBSS)12808032201565501254.0



> List of AMD graphics processing units - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> List of AMD graphics processing units - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'd say PS5's performance is on par with the 6600XT.


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## GerKNG (Jan 2, 2022)

they should have built the PS5 completely different imo.

CPU is fine, GPU could be a larger Die that clocks a bit lower (for efficiency reasons and better performance)
get rid of that stupid "super mega ultra fast" tiny storage and Gen 4 NVME Slot and solder in a cheap SATA SSD with 1TB and a 2.5" Slot for storage expansion.
and take the saved money to get 32GB of RAM.


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## Durvelle27 (Jan 2, 2022)

QuietBob said:


> shaderTMUROPRTboost clockpixel fillratetexture fillrateGFLOPS single/FP326600XT20481286432258916633110.66700XT25601606440258116541313.2680038402409660210520250516.2Oberon (PS5)23041446436223314332210.3Scarlett (XBSX)33282088052182514638012.2Lockheart (XBSS)12808032201565501254.0
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And You'd say wrong. The specs are literately exactly the same as the 6700.


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## MachineLearning (Jan 2, 2022)

Durvelle27 said:


> And You'd say wrong. The specs are literately exactly the same as the 6700.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's the RX 6700M. There is no desktop RX 6700 non-xt, and the 6700 XT has more shading units / TMUs / etc. than the 6700M / PS5 GPU.

Also clock speeds matter, 6700M is very similar on that front to PS5 GPU: the 6700M runs only 20Mhz faster at peak clocks, both nearing 2.3GHz. The 6600XT runs at nearly 2.6GHz.

PS5 GPU is borderline identical to RX6700M, aside from power budget (I presume), which itself performs within 2% of the RX6600 XT, according to TPU's database. OP is correct when saying the PS5 GPU is on-par with the 6600XT, and the TFLOPS numbers they provided reflect this.


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## Durvelle27 (Jan 2, 2022)

MachineLearning said:


> That's the RX 6700M. There is no desktop RX 6700 non-xt, and the 6700 XT has more shading units / TMUs / etc. than the 6700M / PS5 GPU.
> 
> Also clock speeds matter, 6700M is very similar on that front to PS5 GPU: the 6700M runs only 20Mhz faster at peak clocks, both nearing 2.3GHz. The 6600XT runs at nearly 2.6GHz.
> 
> PS5 GPU is borderline identical to RX6700M, aside from power budget (I presume), which itself performs within 2% of the RX6600 XT, according to TPU's database. OP is correct when saying the PS5 GPU is on-par with the 6600XT, and the TFLOPS numbers they provided reflect this.


You do realize there is a 6700 but it is OEM only. It was released months ago. The specs I posted are not for the 6700M


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## ARF (Jan 2, 2022)

GerKNG said:


> they should have built the PS5 completely different imo.
> 
> CPU is fine, GPU could be a larger Die that clocks a bit lower (for efficiency reasons and better performance)
> get rid of that stupid "super mega ultra fast" tiny storage and Gen 4 NVME Slot and solder in a cheap SATA SSD with 1TB and a 2.5" Slot for storage expansion.
> and take the saved money to get 32GB of RAM.



The unique ultra fast storage is actually what makes the console special and innovative.
Because a slow SSD and only 32 GB of RAM would make the game loading times much longer and the active real-time game textures streaming wouldn't be possible.

You need 128 GB of main memory in order to act as RAM-disk. Only 32 GB is too little, too late.



TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> You keep pushing high performance arm core's yet they're are no examples of a high performance arm gaming system in the world so where are you extrapolating it's viability from, the switch?!, Phones, the M1?! Which?!



Well, maybe a shrunk Cell Broadband with improved 32 or 24 cores manufactured on TSMC N3 or N5 would suffice


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## oxrufiioxo (Jan 2, 2022)

I'm guessing a PS5 pro will come at some point. Supply will likely have to go back to normal before Sony or even Microsoft decides to refresh their consoles I doubt it'll be anytime soon.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 2, 2022)

ARF said:


> The unique ultra fast storage is actually what makes the console special and innovative.
> Because a slow SSD and only 32 GB of RAM would make the game loading times much longer and the active real-time game textures streaming wouldn't be possible.
> 
> You need 128 GB of main memory in order to act as RAM-disk. Only 32 GB is too little, too late.
> ...


Not at all, call handling hardware isn't game playing hardware.

And anything made on Tsmc n3/5 at this moment in time is either a phone or not affordable for consumers.

That's less comparable than M1 so I'll ignore your suggestion and use that now we have a arm chip with an actual GPU attached, where's the AAA game catalogue coming from, games can be ported or emulated but these are complicated avenues to go down see proton for proof.
I personally don't want to play phone games and that's exactly where the catalogue for your next generation console would come from.

Regardless you can't name a high end gaming platform on Arm because it doesn't exist and neither do the games made for it.

Hypothetical ideology doesn't make stuff happen ,money and dev time do and no one's driving that innovation buss, Nvidia are closest to it (with switch)but we can clearly see that it's not going to be easy to pull off.


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## R0H1T (Jan 2, 2022)

ARF said:


> Because if they implement performance updates,* that would kill the purpose of the PS6 to some extent.* Will make the PS5 and PS6 look quite similar, of course unless the PS6 has an ARM RISC groundbreaking revolutionary CPU.


Hey you know what you don't need to pay for any of your (future) games, no need to own them, just get a cheap subscription (only $10.99/month) & enjoy the perks for eternity till your subscription runs out ~ *win win right *


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## Fourstaff (Jan 3, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> But we already have the slim, PS5 digital.


Close enough, but I am thinking more in the lines of midlife optimisation.


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## Chomiq (Jan 3, 2022)

Fourstaff said:


> Close enough, but I am thinking more in the lines of midlife optimisation.


In that case we still have at least 2 years before that, based on the PS4 timeline.


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## qubit (Jan 3, 2022)

Given how hard it is to buy the current PS5, I can't see a more expensive version with a smaller market happening.

Also, remember, when comparing their graphics power to PC graphics cards. the consoles have a different, more optimised architecture, so are much more efficient at getting more out of their hardware than on the PC. It's amazing how good the graphics look on my PS4 when playing Rainbow Six Siege for example and it came out in 2014. Sure, my PC looks better, but it's a lot more powerful, too.


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## ixi (Jan 3, 2022)

Ryzen 5 4600G or 4650G anyday anytime > PS5 . 

Upgrades are always good because they push things forwards. Can't wait to see ps5 and ex box ex series ex improved, better for us . But the most anticipated console for me is nintendo switch 2 or what the name will be...


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## Guwapo77 (Jan 3, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> But we already have the slim, PS5 digital.


The slims come with a significant size reduction over the launch models.  The digital doesn't qualify as it only omits the physical drive.  It will be interesting to see what ideas they will incorporate for the future design.


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## Ferrum Master (Jan 3, 2022)

There are not that many true PS5 games out there, what's the fuss even bothering with even more powerful one?

As Sony always does there will be silent upgrades regarding die shrinks and other components to make the console cheaper for them, that's their priority now.


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## Guwapo77 (Jan 3, 2022)

blanarahul said:


> So the current PlayStation 5 has 400$ MSRP. I was wondering, what if Sony had another version (say PlayStation 5X) which had a 70% more powerful GPU. To put it in context, PS5's GPU is about as good as a RX 6600 XT. The 5X GPU I am suggesting would be on par with RX 6800 non-XT. The advantage of the 5x would be that it would allow for higher fps. A game that manages 30fps locked on PS5 ( for example Spider Man Miles Morales with RT ) would be able to reach 60fps locked on 5x (with some quality reductions).
> 
> So, how would this hypothetical PS5x do in the market? Would it sell well? What price do you think would be appropriate?


How would this hypothetical PS5x do in the market?
- Based on what we've seen over the past year, price doesn't really matter.  May of us will be seriously upset with a MSRP of $700 or more, but I see it selling out the moment it touches the shelves.  

Would it sell well?
- Absolutely. Anything south of MSRP of $800 it will fly off the shelves. I see a lot of the initial consoles hitting the resale market and being replaced with the Pro model. I'm one of those people except I don't resale, I give it to someone in the family.

What price do you think would be appropriate?
- I answered that above - $699.99



Ferrum Master said:


> There are not that many true PS5 games out there, what's the fuss even bothering with even more powerful one?
> 
> As Sony always does there will be silent upgrades regarding die shrinks and other components to make the console cheaper for them, that's their priority now.


Pro specific games launch with better frame rates and sometimes visuals.  It doesn't matter if its a "true" game or not...mo' powa baby.


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## Ferrum Master (Jan 3, 2022)

Guwapo77 said:


> Pro specific games launch with better frame rates and sometimes visuals.  It doesn't matter if its a "true" game or not...mo' powa baby.


Pretty much BS. You cannot make true next gen without cutting the ties with previous gen. It is all just lipstick on a pig.


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## WhoDecidedThat (Jan 3, 2022)

Ferrum Master said:


> Pretty much BS. You cannot make true next gen without cutting the ties with previous gen. It is all just lipstick on a pig.


Agreed. But consider this, Spiderman Miles Morales has 3 modes:

- Fidelity - 30 fps, uses Ray Tracing, aims 4K
- Performance - 60 fps, no RT + some other visual reductions, aims 4K
- Performance RT - 60 fps, uses Ray Tracing, has other visual reductions, aims 1440p

My hypothetical PS5 Pro would allow for Performance RT mode to reach Fidelity level quality (because of the extra graphics processing power) while retaining 60 fps and that is something many people will be willing to pay extra money and physical space (because the more powerful console will need bigger case so that it can have a bigger, better cooler).

Sony could even make the deal a little sweeter by doubling the SSD capacity for PS5 Pro, allowing it to have over 1.3 Terbytes of usable storage (advertised as 1.65 TB).

I think it's a really big missed opportunity for this generation. Xbox has a Series S and X but Series S having an underpowered 4 TFlop GPU (vs Series X's 12 TFlops) is a big F. I would have much preferred a dual console strategy that has a standard 400$ console and then a 700-800$ bigger, faster console that pushes visual quality even higher.

As I said, imagine having the hardware to play Miles Morales in PS5's 30 fps Fidelity Mode at a smooth 60fps. Or being able to play The Matrix UE5 demo at 60fps (right now it's tuned at 30 fps).


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## oobymach (Jan 3, 2022)

Not sure if it's been mentioned, Ps5 comes in an 8k variant.


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## Guwapo77 (Jan 3, 2022)

Ferrum Master said:


> Pretty much BS. You cannot make true next gen without cutting the ties with previous gen. It is all just lipstick on a pig.


What are you talking about?  The original statement said they don't have any true ps5 games as being a reason for not creating a PS5 Pro model.


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## oxrufiioxo (Jan 3, 2022)

oobymach said:


> Not sure if it's been mentioned, Ps5 comes in an 8k variant.



Comically there is a game that renders at 8k on PS5 even though the system doesn't currently output at that resolution.









						The Touryst is the first 8K 60fps game for PS5
					

Shin'en Multimedia's brilliant game - The Touryst - is now available for PS4 and PS5 consoles and it is now confirmed a…




					www.eurogamer.net


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## Guwapo77 (Jan 3, 2022)

blanarahul said:


> Agreed. But consider this, Spiderman Miles Morales has 3 modes:
> 
> - Fidelity - 30 fps, uses Ray Tracing, aims 4K
> - Performance - 60 fps, no RT + some other visual reductions, aims 4K
> ...


...my whole point.  I guess I need to write in excess around here.  Let's not forget a further improvement on load times.


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## sepheronx (Jan 3, 2022)

I am waiting for the next variant that is much cheaper before I purchase a PS5.  

I purchased a disk one at a bestbuy in Kelowna BC.  But returned it as I got it for my friend who then bitched at me that he told me he already bought one (I Know he didn't because decades of alcohol abuse has screwed his memory up beyond belief but he still blames everyone else).  So I returned it.  The girl at bestbuy more or less called me a retard for returning it cause she said I could of scalped it for a lot more.  I kinda wanted to keep it but $710 CAD is way too much I am willing to spend on a game console.  And I bought PS3 at $650 CAD when it released.......


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## Chomiq (Jan 3, 2022)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Comically there is a game that renders at 8k on PS5 even though the system doesn't currently output at that resolution.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And it's a great game. It also has a 4K120 mode AFAIK.


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## Ferrum Master (Jan 3, 2022)

blanarahul said:


> - Performance - 60 fps, no RT + some other visual reductions, aims 4K



Having 60FPS + RT and 4K? You understand how much more horsepower is needed for that?? Won't happen. Sony is still selling those things at loss, you imagine from them even more free gifts?

Be reasonable and quit the fanboy attitude.

Miles of Morales is really one rare example. Other games are just lazy jobs, maybe due Covid, but not yet.

First thing that Sony will do is make them cheaper. It has always been like that with playstations.


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## Guwapo77 (Jan 3, 2022)

Ferrum Master said:


> Having 60FPS + RT and 4K? You understand how much more horsepower is needed for that?? Won't happen. Sony is still selling those things at loss, you imagine from them even more free gifts?
> 
> Be reasonable and quit the fanboy attitude.
> 
> ...


Actually, the disc version is not sold at a loss.  The discless version should be breaking even relatively soon.   

I do agree with you as I don't see 60FPS + RT at native 4K. It will need to be upscaled for all triple A titles. You also have titles like Ratchet and Clank which provides the Miles treatment. First party titles will be able to tap into the console a bit better. 

Sony will make them cheaper to produce in no time.  I have every major model of PlayStation since the OG PlayStation 1 (I'm missing the PS2 Slim).


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## dirtyferret (Jan 3, 2022)

Tigger said:


> How would they cool it?


how would they power it using a brick power supply?


blanarahul said:


> They will have to design and build a separate chassis and cooler for it. The 5X chassis would be bigger to accomodate the larger cooler.


new chassis like a...PC case?  new GPU cooler like a...after market GPU cooler?  New power supply like a...PC power supply?


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jan 3, 2022)

dirtyferret said:


> how would they power it using a brick power supply?
> 
> new chassis like a...PC case?  new GPU cooler like a...after market GPU cooler?  New power supply like a...PC power supply?



Hence a PC is better than a console.


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## qubit (Jan 3, 2022)

Ferrum Master said:


> Pretty much BS. You cannot make true next gen without cutting the ties with previous gen. It is all just lipstick on a pig.


Umm, no, that's completely wrong.

The PC that you're using right now is a perfect example of how you're wrong. Compare it to a 20 year old model. There are vast differences between them, yet your modern one will be able to run 99%+ of the software that the old one does, it will also run loads of software that the old one can't and finally, the capability and performance (especially graphics) is orders of magnitude faster than that museum piece. So, how was "cutting ties" necessary to make a true next gen PC?


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## FreedomEclipse (Jan 3, 2022)

Tigger said:


> How would they cool it?









Though seriously.... Sony could play around with the design of the chassis. Add some heatpipes that lead to a side panel thats made out of aluminium for some passive cooling all the while still having a fan that draws air through the case to make a hybrid cooling solution.

I mean obviously this will add $5000 to the base price of the PS5 but if you want it, you gotta sell your kids for it.


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## Chrispy_ (Jan 3, 2022)

Fourstaff said:


> Close enough, but I am thinking more in the lines of midlife optimisation.


That normally happens when the silicon moves to new process node resulting in a smaller die that's cheaper to make, and a lower TDP which results in a cheaper, smaller console that uses a smaller power brick and requires less expensive cooling.

TSMC 6nm probably isn't enough of a change to be worth bothering with - it's a replacement for N7 and offers 15% die area reductions at best, and should be compared to a lower-cost N7+ rather than anything new.

TSMC 5nm is mostly gobbled up by Apple. Whilst it does supposedly have the die-area and efficiency improvements to make a PS5 slim a reality, AMD and Nvidia alike are basically getting table scraps in terms of TSMC 5nm allocation so they won't be in a hurry to waste that allocation on low-profit console parts when they could instead be using it for EPYC processors at $7000, RDNA3 GPU flagships at $1500+ MSRP, or Radeon Instinct accelerators for five-digit sums. Limited allocation means that the most profitable parts get priority and that's definitely not console chips.


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## Ferrum Master (Jan 3, 2022)

qubit said:


> Umm, no, that's completely wrong.
> 
> The PC that you're using right now is a perfect example of how you're wrong. Compare it to a 20 year old model. There are vast differences between them, yet your modern one will be able to run 99%+ of the software that the old one does, it will also run loads of software that the old one can't and finally, the capability and performance (especially graphics) is orders of magnitude faster than that museum piece. So, how was "cutting ties" necessary to make a true next gen PC?



The Jaguar cores have never been really used in a desktop PC, only in ultra portables. It was anemic even when it released. So games from PS4 on PS5? It's they way it should be? It is lipstick on a pig so far. Okay I agree Covid played a great role on it, delaying everything, including our life.

You have to sweat through your code to not induce bottlenecks and create stutter. Bad code induces stutter in between the same generation Xbox'es and PS5/4, because they are not like 100% same. You have to sit, tailor, debug on each platform. Screw it. It all ends up watering down, and putting in weird code in every game that actually doesn't compile the same way on any platform, including ports on PC. That includes physics, AI, Engine, input, and GPU scheduling load as the deadlines come near. You simply cannot brute force any game. Even on PC there are loads of shit console ports that fail this exact idea, you can choke on that single thread load, tied and hardcoded 30FPS physics engine or audio lip-sync. The dev has to work on that dev kit since day 0. If you think you can push any code out there without consequences you either work at Bethesda or Microsoft... but oh wait... 

I also had many consoles including PSX and up. The real deal, the real games emerge only like two years after launch. You also overdid with that 20 year limit. You could not even install an old XP or win98 dosbox to play those older titles around 2002. You have to use a Retro PC actually and most modern cards lack instruction sets from early directx8.x and 9a, those are depreciated, I won't even touch the HW  sound and limited resolution topic. Ties were cut already.

You cannot compare consoles that has had even direct ASM code injection as they needed speed, just like in PS3 era, in latter years same happened in PS4, Sony is greatly contributing in Linux LLVM Clang because of the HW being so anemic. You never see such tailoring in a PC. It ain't apples to apples. 

Another point of this overall speculation being BS is overall shortage of semiconductors and passives as such. There won't be another PRO version in at least two years for sure, just shrinks and cost optimizations.


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## ARF (Jan 3, 2022)

So, Jaguar was worse than Bulldozer. Why didn't they use a little downclocked Bulldozer with the aim to shrink it as soon as possible?!
Stupid, stupid Sony. Must always stay with the Cell Broadband Engine


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## Vayra86 (Jan 3, 2022)

qubit said:


> Umm, no, that's completely wrong.
> 
> The PC that you're using right now is a perfect example of how you're wrong. Compare it to a 20 year old model. There are vast differences between them, yet your modern one will be able to run 99%+ of the software that the old one does, it will also run loads of software that the old one can't and finally, the capability and performance (especially graphics) is orders of magnitude faster than that museum piece. So, how was "cutting ties" necessary to make a true next gen PC?



While I agree in part... look at the transitions between, for example, DirectX versions. Especially the last switch from 11 to newer API's. One MAJOR complaint everyone has is how DX12 games would run shittier than their DX11 counterparts... that's the effect of not cutting ties. Those DX12 versions of games were literally lipsticked pigs.

Now consider Vulkan, that does not have such legacy, or a native DX12 developed game.

Its extremely true in software development that a clean slate opens up new ways to work, while having to deal with legacy alongside the new is going to slow everything down: your development speed, your ability to match featuresets between APIs (in this example) or the actual products, improvements in complexity and size, etc. You're literally just working around your old crap all the time.

I do configuration for insurance products and let me tell you, even there, legacy is responsible for I think 85% of our problems and its holding back new developments every day, for years now


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## ARF (Jan 3, 2022)

Vayra86 said:


> While I agree in part... look at the transitions between, for example, DirectX versions. Especially the last switch from 11 to newer API's. One MAJOR complaint everyone has is how DX12 games would run shittier than their DX11 counterparts... that's the effect of not cutting ties. Those DX12 versions of games were literally lipsticked pigs.
> 
> Now consider Vulkan, that does not have such legacy, or a native DX12 developed game.
> 
> ...



Well, DirectX 10.1 from AMD was really good. But was sabotaged by Nvidia and its shenanigans.



> We have been following a brewing controversy over the PC version of _Assassin’s Creed_ and its support for AMD Radeon graphics cards with DirectX 10.1 for some time now. The folks at Rage3D first broke this story by noting some major performance gains in the game on a Radeon HD 3870 X2 with antialiasing enabled after Vista Service Pack 1 is installed—gains of up to 20%. Vista SP1, of course, adds support for DirectX version 10.1, among other things. Rage3D’s Alex Voicu also demonstrated some instances of higher quality antialiasing—some edges were touched that otherwise would not be—with DX10.1. Currently, only Radeon HD 3000-series GPUs are DX10.1-capable, and given AMD’s struggles of late, the positive news about DX10.1 support in a major game seemed like a much-needed ray of hope for the company and for Radeon owners.


Ubisoft comments on Assassin's Creed DX10.1 controversy - UPDATED - The Tech Report

Well, I think the software development legacy issues can be solved if Microsoft divides Windows for working environment, and Windows for home entertainment environment.
Because the companies' conservative attitudes and lack of initiative to upgrade to newer software and hardware causes the pain for Microsoft to support these old versions.

Just count that the companies use very old Windows versions - 20H1 W10, while the newest in the Fast ring should be 22H2 or something...


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## Vayra86 (Jan 3, 2022)

ARF said:


> Well, DirectX 10.1 from AMD was really good. But was sabotaged by Nvidia and its shenanigans.
> 
> 
> Ubisoft comments on Assassin's Creed DX10.1 controversy - UPDATED - The Tech Report
> ...



How the F did you even manage to bring an AMD/NV war sentiment responding to that post. Amazing.

Get a life.


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## ARF (Jan 3, 2022)

Vayra86 said:


> How the F did you even manage to bring an AMD/NV war sentiment responding to that post.



Because you stated the problem with the APIs. Claiming that DX12 is wrong. I claim that Nvidia is wrong and causes the issues.


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## WhoDecidedThat (Jan 3, 2022)

Ferrum Master said:


> Having 60FPS + RT and 4K? You understand how much more horsepower is needed for that??


That is why I proposed a more expensive (700+$), more powerful variant. Similar to what Series X is for Series S.

Just saying that, in the PC market we have the choice of a RTX 3060 Ti (for most people) or RTX 3080 Ti (for enthusiasts), I would like if there was a enthusiast choice for consoles. Of course that is in a market where normal PS5s were plentiful. With the current chip shortages, I don't think a PS5 Pro makes sense.


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## Vayra86 (Jan 3, 2022)

ARF said:


> Because you stated the problem with the APIs. Claiming that DX12 is wrong. I claim that Nvidia is wrong and causes the issues.



I never claimed DX12 is wrong. You need to learn to read instead. The whole post is about developers using APIs and what they're forced to deal with in doing so, when products are going to have to get supported on multiple of them.

That's entirely not up to Microsoft, or Nvidia, or AMD. Its up to publishers of said software and their target market(s).


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## ARF (Jan 3, 2022)

Vayra86 said:


> One MAJOR complaint everyone has is how DX12 games would run shittier than their DX11 counterparts...



The word "shittier" is enough. Now you get a life 



Vayra86 said:


> I never claimed DX12 is wrong.


Ok


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## Vayra86 (Jan 3, 2022)

ARF said:


> The word "shittier" is enough. Now you get a life
> 
> 
> Ok



You really have the attention span of a fly don't you? There's a thing called context and/or reading comprehension. Try it sometime. You can start practicing by reading the whole post.


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## Ferrum Master (Jan 3, 2022)

blanarahul said:


> That is why I proposed a more expensive (700+$), more powerful variant. Something similar to what Series X is for Series S.
> 
> Just saying that like in the PC market we have the choice of a 6700XT for most people or 6900XT for madmen, I would like if there was a madmen choice for consoles as well.



Sony is a very conservative Japanese company also. Nothing indicates that beyond us few enthusiasts need it. The heck most even haven't had their hands on the stock PS5 yet.


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## sepheronx (Jan 3, 2022)

Ferrum Master said:


> Sony is a very conservative Japanese company also. Nothing indicates that beyond us few enthusiasts need it. The heck most even haven't had their hands on the stock PS5 yet.


Except gaming division is US now so the US has a rather good history at throwing money at something regardless how bad it can get.

Now I don't know if the PS5 is still Japanese per se. Maybe still will be made and future consoles, by Japanese teams.


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## WhoDecidedThat (Jan 3, 2022)

Ferrum Master said:


> Nothing indicates that beyond us few enthusiasts need it


Nvidia's Titan cards, xx80Ti / xx90 cards selling well would say different. iPhones have continued to get more expensive and they still sell quite well. After all, gaming isn't really a need is it? It's a matter of wants and I am sure there will be people willing to fork money for extra performance.

The whole point of this discussion was that I looked at 400$ PS5's visual prowess and wondered what more they could do if they had the budget of 700$ per unit.



Ferrum Master said:


> heck most even haven't had their hands on the stock PS5 yet


I agree. A PS5 Pro makes little sense in the current market with chip shortages.


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## cvaldes (Jan 4, 2022)

A PS5 Pro's likely appearance would be about 4 years after the original console debut, thus late 2024 or early 2025. 

As for people wondering how the increased performance would be handled in terms of thermals, most likely it would be produced on a more advanced process node and thus be able to provide extra performance with similar TDP to the current ASIC.

There is pretty much zero chance we will see a PS5 Pro in 2022. Nintendo, Sony, Xbox all makes their profits from software sales, not console hardware. This is nothing new, it was the same in the 1990s. 

Look at Nintendo. They released the Switch OLED with no additional performance improvements apart from handheld screen image quality. The mid-generation hardware upgrades have not been revolutionary.


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## Mussels (Jan 4, 2022)

They'll release a PS5 PRO with 8K 60Hz 2D support and better 4K60 gaming performance
Then they'll release a PS6 with backward compatibility a few years later, with 8K gaming support (at 30FPS/virtual res stuff)


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Jan 4, 2022)

I love how the OP think this is hyperbolical when it actually happened with the ps4 pro and Xbox one x, and it will happen again no doubt with current gen consoles. 

As for price it would be about 100$ more than standard console just like ps4 pro is 100$ more than the ps4 slim



Mussels said:


> They'll release a PS5 PRO with 8K 60Hz 2D support and better 4K60 gaming performance
> Then they'll release a PS6 with backward compatibility a few years later, with 8K gaming support (at 30FPS/virtual res stuff)


I'd love to get a Crystal ball like the one your using, must be nice to know what the future unfolds



Chomiq said:


> But we already have the slim, PS5 digital


We do ????????!!


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## cvaldes (Jan 4, 2022)

Mussels said:


> They'll release a PS5 PRO with 8K 60Hz 2D support and better 4K60 gaming performance
> Then they'll release a PS6 with backward compatibility a few years later, with 8K gaming support (at 30FPS/virtual res stuff)


The consumer world should have glimpsed 8K/60Hz video playback in July 2020 at kiosks at various Tokyo Summer Olympics venues, probably including a few displays at Narita, Haneda, and Kansai International Airports as a demonstration of Japanese high tech superiority.

Sadly, COVID-19 took all of this away. The tech was ready to go.

I'm guessing that Sony would have had concealed PS5 late prototype demo units at strategic locations as well demonstrating 4K/120Hz gaming for visitors to play around with.

I doubt if a mid-generation videogame console upgrade will offer a substantial resolution bump.

Realistically 8K gaming won't come until about 2028.

Hell, I game at 4K/120Hz and I'm not sure what percentage of gamers would benefit from that. OK, I'm gaming on a 55" OLED with 120Hz VRR and Nvidia G-Sync but your typical gamer isn't rocking this display. Frankly I could be happy with 1080p gaming sitting on my living room couch but I won a GeForce RTX 3080 from the Newegg Shuffle which is why I upgraded my TV from FHD to UHD. I never planned this for 2021.


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## Vayra86 (Jan 4, 2022)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> I'd love to get a Crystal ball like the one your using, must be nice to know what the future unfolds


You do know that Mussels contain pearls, right? Not entirely crystal, but close enough 

I stole one of those pearls too some years ago. It works quite well!


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## chrcoluk (Jan 4, 2022)

blanarahul said:


> So the current PlayStation 5 has 400$ MSRP. I was wondering, what if Sony had another version (say PlayStation 5X) which had a 70% more powerful GPU. To put it in context, PS5's GPU is about as good as a RX 6600 XT. The 5X GPU I am suggesting would be on par with RX 6800 non-XT. The advantage of the 5x would be that it would allow for higher fps. A game that manages 30fps locked on PS5 ( for example Spider Man Miles Morales with RT ) would be able to reach 60fps locked on 5x (with some quality reductions).
> 
> So, how would this hypothetical PS5x do in the market? Would it sell well? What price do you think would be appropriate?


Are you sure its $400 MSRP?

Its 450GBP in UK which is close to 550USD.

Dont think is a PS5 pro any time soon.  They dont have the capacity to cool it and would be too expensive as well as too early in life.


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Jan 4, 2022)

chrcoluk said:


> Are you sure its $400 MSRP?
> 
> Its 450GBP in UK which is close to 550USD.
> 
> Dont think is a PS5 pro any time soon.  They dont have the capacity to cool it and would be too expensive as well as too early in life.


Digital version is 100$ cheaper than disk version


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## Bomby569 (Jan 4, 2022)

the only thing going for them was remaining in an older arquitechture to end the shortages, if they go for the new stuff expect scalping, shortages and the likes


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## skizzo (Jan 4, 2022)

I speculate that speculators will be speculating about this spectacle for a while


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