# Ryzen 5 3600 95ºC



## Derek12 (Jan 27, 2021)

Hi
I have the stock HS fan plus two intake cases (one in front and other in the side) and one exhaust fan

And when running cinebench the CPU goes to 95ºC with all fans at full blast mode, but *never beyond* that, the CPU throttles down to 3.8GHz but never below that at least in a Cinebench session.





I double checked the HS and it's tight and I've removed and installed again with same results

Is it normal? I have seen mixed responses all over the internet, some say yes with the stock fan, and some say no, because 95 is the max temperature, and I'm so confused.

PD: Idle temps are around 40-50c
Many thanks


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## phanbuey (Jan 27, 2021)

It's high, I would repaste using different thermal paste.  If it's a gaming/general purpose rig it won't be a problem, since you're probably loading in the 60-80 range, but if you're running heavy loads regularly on it I would want it somewhere in the mid 80s or at least below 90.


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## DR4G00N (Jan 27, 2021)

The included wraith stealth cooler is just very crap. Just grab a cheap tower cooler from somewhere, lower temps will allow the chip to boost higher too.


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## GaryPoisonOak (Jan 27, 2021)

DR4G00N said:


> The included wraith stealth cooler is just very crap. Just grab a cheap tower cooler from somewhere, lower temps will allow the chip to boost higher too.


100%. Ditch that wraith for something like a cheap Hyper 212 Evo. It might not look as sleek as a Noctua or a be quiet!, but it's more than capable of handling the thermals of the 3600. It can also be had for about $30. Cinebench will stress the CPU more than most applications, but even if you're running in the 80s during normal use cases, you're at risk of never taking advantage of your CPU's boost clock, as it will throttle its clock speeds to protect itself.


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## Derek12 (Jan 27, 2021)

Thank you all
I am using the preapplied thermal paste (I had a tube somewhere but I misplaced it, if I find it I will repaste and check if it gets lower.
I will use this computer for gaming and working (but the games I am currently playing are not CPU hungry and it runs about 70 but the load is very low).
I will try to pick up an aftermarket HS, maybe that Hyper 212 Evo or some Noctua that is not too big for my case (my case fans are Noctua and they are very fine). But as I am in the eve of upgrading to a M2 SSD maybe I will pick up a cheap one


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## PaulieG (Jan 27, 2021)

Derek12 said:


> Thank you all
> I will use this computer for gaming and working (but the games I am currently playing are not CPU hungry and it runs about 70 but the load is very low).
> I will try to pick up an aftermarket HS, maybe that Hyper 212 Evo or some Noctua that is not too big for my case (my case fans are Noctua and they are very fine).


I have a Noctua NH-U12S running in a little mATX case. It will fit in just about any type of tower case, except for ITX.


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## thebluebumblebee (Jan 27, 2021)

Sorry to say this, but you have a crappy case with extremely low air flow.  An 80 mm exhaust fan isn't going to cut it, and who knows where that front fan gets it's air from. 

Also, it's limited to a CPU cooler height of 156 mm and the CM212 is 158 mm.  I know from experience that those old, top PSU designs just don't work with modern hardware.

Edit: The front fan gets all of its air from the small finger hole cut out at the bottom of the front cover.


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## Derek12 (Jan 27, 2021)

thebluebumblebee said:


> Sorry to say this, but you have a crappy case with extremely low air flow.  An 80 mm exhaust fan isn't going to cut it, and who knows where that front fan gets it's air from.
> 
> Also, it's limited to a CPU cooler height of 156 mm and the CM212 is 158 mm.  I know from experience that those old, top PSU designs just don't work with modern hardware.


Yep I had to choose a small case because I didn't have enough space for a full ATX one in the desk  
The case font panel has a hole to draw air to the fan

I though with my current HW the airflow was enough (with my previous build, i3 6100, same GPU in a way worse case without intake fans and never got beyond 70 at full load, but I realize the 3600 is way more powerful than that.

Also it's a bottom-mounted PSU case better than a top-mounted one? I though PSUs were designed to act like a exhaust fan for the case

Then maybe I will have to look up for a low profile HS that doesn't clash with RAM, because the Noctua NH-U12S is also 158 mm but I don't know if an aftermarket LP HS is better than the Wraith stealth


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## thebluebumblebee (Jan 27, 2021)

Derek12 said:


> Yep I had to choose a small case because I didn't have enough space for a full ATX one in the desk
> I though with my current HW the airflow was enough (with my previous build, i3 6100, same GPU in a way worse case without intake fans and never got beyond 70 at full load, but I realize the 3600 is way more powerful than that.


You don't need a full size case.  Just a case with an actual airflow plan, like the FD Meshify mini C.


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## Deleted member 193596 (Jan 27, 2021)

my 3600 (with kryonaut) runs at around 86-90°C in a well ventilated case.


buy yourself any cheap tower cooler for 20-30 bucks and you'll be more than fine


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## thebluebumblebee (Jan 27, 2021)

The Pure Rock 2 from be quiet! will fit your case and is one of the best values out there.  The CRYORIG M9i used to be about $20, but their price has more than doubled.


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## Zach_01 (Jan 27, 2021)

Wraith Stealth + restricted case air flow results this. 95°C is the max operating temp so its normal to throttle there.
Start with a better case regarding air flow. Getting a better cooler will have minimal impact if the case cant move the heat outside quickly


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 27, 2021)

The chip is designed to use the absolute effing max available to it when asked, it's just that simple, better coolers help but not as much as most would like.


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## freeagent (Jan 27, 2021)

WarTherapy1195 said:


> my 3600 (with kryonaut) runs at around 86-90°C in a well ventilated case.
> 
> 
> buy yourself any cheap tower cooler for 20-30 bucks and you'll be more than fine


That's about what I saw too with mine too with PBO.


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## Zach_01 (Jan 27, 2021)

WarTherapy1195 said:


> my 3600 (with kryonaut) runs at around 86-90°C in a well ventilated case.
> 
> 
> buy yourself any cheap tower cooler for 20-30 bucks and you'll be more than fine


With what cooler?
CPU stock settings?


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## Derek12 (Jan 27, 2021)

Thanks, I will check those HS recommendations 
Another thing I noticed is that temps go up and down so fast, for example, running cinebench it takes a few seconds to get to 95ºC then stops there and stopping it it drops to idle temps in less than a minute 
but any small load makes temps go up by 10 or 20c in seconds and that cause fans to rev up and down constantly
Is this normal in Ryzen with stock HS? Anyway I will buy thermal paste and check and if things don't improve then a new HS that fits in my case

PD: I also check and the case, and exhaust fans don't seem to be particularly hot, and MB temperature is at 30ish temps (almost the same as idle) and touched the HS and it's almost cold  I am starting to think the temperature measured may be wrong (the HS is well tight until the screws stopped) or the preapplied thermal paste is just toothpaste.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 27, 2021)

Derek12 said:


> Thanks, I will check those HS recommendations
> Another thing I noticed is that temps go up and down so fast, for example, running cinebench it takes a few seconds to get to 95ºC then stops there and stopping it it drops to idle temps in less than a minute
> but any small load makes temps go up by 10 or 20c in seconds and that cause fans to rev up and down constantly
> Is this normal in Ryzen with stock HS? Anyway I will buy thermal paste and check and if things don't improve then a new HS that fits in my case


Yes it's normal all modern x86 processor's with many cores work like this they're small packages with massive heating potential


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## Zach_01 (Jan 27, 2021)

Derek12 said:


> Thanks, I will check those HS recommendations
> Another thing I noticed is that temps go up and down so fast, for example, running cinebench it takes a few seconds to get to 95ºC then stops there and stopping it it drops to idle temps in less than a minute
> but any small load makes temps go up by 10 or 20c in seconds and that cause fans to rev up and down constantly
> Is this normal in Ryzen with stock HS? Anyway I will buy thermal paste and check and if things don't improve then a new HS that fits in my case
> ...


Ok, on HWiNFO check the temps on the CPU Enhanced section.



Your cooler is using the (Tctl/Tdie) temp to regulate fan rpm. This temp is the hotest spot of all cores so its very normal to jump around like crazy. In order to avoid constant rpm up/down you can set a different fan curve or/and introduce some delay for fan to increase/decrease speed (usually called delta temp). 3~5°C delay can make a difference.


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## Derek12 (Jan 27, 2021)

Thanks again to all!


Zach_01 said:


> Ok, on HWiNFO check the temps on the CPU Enhanced section.
> 
> View attachment 185828
> 
> Your cooler is using the (Tctl/Tdie) temp to regulate fan rpm. This temp is the hotest spot of all cores so its very normal to jump around like crazy. In order to avoid constant rpm up/down you can set a different fan curve or/and introduce some delay for fan to increase/decrease speed (usually called delta temp). 3~5°C delay can make a difference.


This is what is get, seems to match the CPU Package temps except for the decimal but in some cases there are differences so you are right!
I saw on my Bios there is an option to specify the seconds to rev up and down and enabled that for 20 secs, seems to smooth out the fans pretty well 




 BTW, 87W maximum for the package, isn't TDP 65W??


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## Kissamies (Jan 27, 2021)

Like said already, the stock cooler sucks. I've actually never tried that on my 3600, but as I used a similar one on my old 2600 for day or two, it just sucked.

Just get a basic aftermarket cooler like already suggested.


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## Zach_01 (Jan 27, 2021)

Derek12 said:


> Thanks again to all!
> 
> This is what is get, seems to match the CPU Package temps except for the decimal but in some cases there are differences so you are right!
> I saw on my Bios there is an option to specify the seconds to rev up and down and enabled that for 20 secs, seems to smooth out the fans pretty well
> ...


What concerns me is that you dont feel your cooler hot. During CB R20 and CPU is 95°C the cooler should be very very hot if contact to CPU IHS is proper.

Off topic,
You're running your RAM at 2400MHz? Thats what I see for your memory controller(UCLK) and Infinity fabric(FCLK)


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## Deleted member 193596 (Jan 27, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> With what cooler?
> CPU stock settings?


the stock cooler from AMD... completely stock settings


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## HD64G (Jan 27, 2021)

To make it limit its wattage to 65W you need to get in the UEFI settings and disable the auto setting and select the limit yourself. It will help muchly in thermalas and will lose less than 10% of performance.


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## Zach_01 (Jan 27, 2021)

WarTherapy1195 said:


> the stock cooler from AMD... completely stock settings


I see, thanks!



HD64G said:


> To make it limit its wattage to 65W you need to get in the UEFI settings and disable the auto setting and select the limit yourself. It will help muchly in thermalas and will lose less than 10% of performance.


Going from (PPT) 88W to 65W, I think performance will drop more than 10%.
Never tested it though. But he can try several things to temporarily cap its power consumption and heat dissipation.

Until he shorts out this issue there are many ways to constrain wattage and temp.
He can lower throttle temp to any desired value, or lower PPT again to a desired level or constrain the CPU indirectly by lowering the EDC value (I would guess around 60~65A).


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## Derek12 (Jan 27, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> What concerns me is that you dont feel your cooler hot. During CB R20 and CPU is 95°C the cooler should be very very hot if contact to CPU IHS is proper.
> 
> Off topic,
> You're running your RAM at 2400MHz? Thats what I see for your memory controller(UCLK) and Infinity fabric(FCLK)


Yes, I was thinking the same, but maybe I am not touching well because I have very restricted space for my hands, anyway I will repast it and check! 

That's correct, I have two Corsair vengeance LPX DDR4 2400MHz


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## harm9963 (Jan 27, 2021)

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## Zach_01 (Jan 27, 2021)

Derek12 said:


> Yes, I was thinking the same, but maybe I am not touching well because I have very restricted space for my hands, anyway I will repast it and check!
> 
> That's correct, I have two Corsair vengeance LPX DDR4 2400MHz


Ok, I thought maybe you had faster Ram but not XMP/DOCP Enabled.
But have in mind that a RAM kit of 3200~3600MHz will boost the system’s performance significantly.



Derek12 said:


> BTW, 87W maximum for the package, isn't TDP 65W??


For 3000 series the total power consumption of CPUs are the following

65W TDP (3600/3700X) = 87.5W PPT
95W TDP (3600X/XT) = 125W PPT
105W TDP (3800X~3950X) = 142W PPT

TDP= Thermal Design Power
PPT= Package Power Tracking

The CPU produces heat equal to its total consumption (PPT)

AMD for TDP is taking into account the max amount of heat that would be dissipated from the CPU to the cooler under certain conditions.
Always there is some heat “escaping” through the CPU substrate to the socket and the board and not all of this energy is “moving” towards the cooler.


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## Kissamies (Jan 27, 2021)

harm9963 said:


> AMD wraith Prism
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Expensive for just a better stock cooler. With that price you can get a tower cooler which performs better. Here in Finland you can get brand new of those AMD Prism coolers for 20EUR.


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## Toothless (Jan 28, 2021)

Chloe Price said:


> Expensive for just a better stock cooler. With that price you can get a tower cooler which performs better. Here in Finland you can get brand new of those AMD Prism coolers for 20EUR.


Those prisms actually work though. I stuck one on a 3600x and it never got over 65c.


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## Kissamies (Jan 28, 2021)

Toothless said:


> Those prisms actually work though. I stuck one on a 3600x and it never got over 65c.


Yeah, but at 30USD it's expensive.


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## Zach_01 (Jan 28, 2021)

Yeah it shouldn’t be more than 20$


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## Toothless (Jan 28, 2021)

Depends on where you're buying from. Sometimes you can snag one for $15.


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## Derek12 (Jan 29, 2021)

Thanks again 
I have bough some thermal paste (Noctua NT-H2 10g). Let's see if it improves things, if not, at least I'll have for the new cooler.


Zach_01 said:


> Ok, I thought maybe you had faster Ram but not XMP/DOCP Enabled.
> But have in mind that a RAM kit of 3200~3600MHz will boost the system’s performance significantly.
> 
> 
> ...



I though about faster RAM but it was soo expensive! Maybe in the future I will sell the current ones and get 3200MHz one, thanks for the tips and kudos for the explanation about the power consumption 

Well, applied the new thermal paste and the CPU still goes to 95, although it seems to take a bit longer to reach it, plus the clock "only" seems to throttle down to  upper 3.8GHz and some valley down to 3.85 (before it was mostly down to 3.80), so at least there is some progress. Thanks to that the Cinebench score increased a bit, 8676 and I think yesterday was 8300's. Also I touched the HS and it was hot (but due to restricted space I can't put my finger in a good way...


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## thebluebumblebee (Jan 29, 2021)

To check whether this is an air flow problem, can you run the same test with the side off of the case and a fan blowing into the case?


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## ixi (Jan 29, 2021)

First of all, guys who don't have 3600, 3600x or 3600xt. Stop telling "stock cooler, blah, blah crap".

Not so long ago did two builds one with 3600x and other with 3600xt.

On stock cooler while playing games on both of these cpu temperature is from 50-65 (depends what you play and of course settings).

On idle both (web browsing) cpu temps were from 25-40. From time to time i did see 40 tempersture because it did jump in voltage when power was needed. And voltage vent over 1.52... 

When occt stress was used test temps were around 85-90 both. Which is ok. 

Later on both pc used ryzen master utility auto oc options. Before this utility both cpus jumped from time to time up to 1.55v which is alot... after used auto oc. It limited voltage for x to 1.23 and xt 1.27. And temps went down from 85-90 to 74-77. 

What can I add is that both these pc had "ok" cases. With three 12cm in front, top two 12cm and rear one 12cm.

Maybe both pc users just got lucky that they got "top of silicon lotery", dunno.  But in short. My experience with 3600x and 3600xt.


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## F1nnegan (Jan 29, 2021)

Derek12 said:


> Hi
> I have the stock HS fan plus two intake cases (one in front and other in the side) and one exhaust fan
> 
> And when running cinebench the CPU goes to 95ºC with all fans at full blast mode, but *never beyond* that, the CPU throttles down to 3.8GHz but never below that at least in a Cinebench session.
> ...


By the looks of it your motherboard and other components aren't stressing out whatsoever so it might just be bad paste or maybe even plastic film left on your cooler!


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## Derek12 (Jan 29, 2021)

thebluebumblebee said:


> To check whether this is an air flow problem, can you run the same test with the side off of the case and a fan blowing into the case?


I tried only taking the side off as I don't have a fan, and temps were a bit lower, about 87, but in the side I have a 12mm fan blowing almost into the CPU (it's a bit lower, so it also cools the video card, which is a good idea because it almost touches the bottom of the case, but it never goes above 70 at full...)


F1nnegan said:


> By the looks of it your motherboard and other components aren't stressing out whatsoever so it might just be bad paste or maybe even plastic film left on your cooler!


The cooler had preapplied thermal paste (which I cleaned off today) and no plastic whatsoever on it or the CPU


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## thebluebumblebee (Jan 29, 2021)

ixi said:


> What can I add is that both these pc had "ok" cases. With three 12cm in front, top two 12cm and rear one 12cm.


Op has an 80mm exhaust fan, and the PSU.


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## freeagent (Jan 29, 2021)

ixi said:


> First of all, guys who don't have 3600, 3600x or 3600xt. Stop telling "stock cooler, blah, blah crap".
> 
> Not so long ago did two builds one with 3600x and other with 3600xt.
> 
> ...


I do have a 3600XT and I did use the stock cooler for 1 month. It wasn't horrible. It worked. My loads were at 80c ish running something hard. No overclock though. It normally ran between 4300-4600MHz. The lower being under a hard load, sometimes 4250 with AVX.

90c is not what I would call a fantastic temperature.. I would call that 5c away from the top of the scale. But yeah, if you aren't doing anything with it, it does run pretty cool. Even cooler since I took over the overclocking side of things and got a mount for my cooler, also no need to stab it with over 1.5v anymore since it pretty much tops out with 1.337v. Not all of my cores can do 4600 and like it so no point in hammering it with voltage.


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## thebluebumblebee (Jan 29, 2021)

Derek12 said:


> I tried only taking the side off as I don't have a fan, and temps were a bit lower, about 87


That's actually huge.  Dropping 8° is huge, especially when all you did was to open the side of the case.  You need a better case.


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## DR4G00N (Jan 29, 2021)

ixi said:


> First of all, guys who don't have 3600, 3600x or 3600xt. Stop telling "stock cooler, blah, blah crap".
> 
> Not so long ago did two builds one with 3600x and other with 3600xt.
> 
> ...


The 3600X & XT come with the Wraith Spire which is not actually bad at all. The problem is that the 3600 comes with the Wraith Stealth which is about half the size (about the same size as an Intel Celeron/Pentium stock cooler). Even the 3400G which is a quad-core comes with the Spire cooler.


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## Apocalypsee (Jan 29, 2021)

DR4G00N said:


> The 3600X & XT come with the Wraith Spire which is not actually bad at all. The problem is that the 3600 comes with the Wraith Stealth which is about half the size (about the same size as an Intel Celeron/Pentium stock cooler). Even the 3400G which is a quad-core comes with the Spire cooler.


Indeed. Wratih Stealth sucks so bad, the only thing you can do with it is disable Turbo and it will run at manageable temperature. How bad is it/ I replace it with Arctic Freezer 64 Pro that was meant to cool Athlon 64 and it runs the 3600 just fine with Turbo enabled


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## Mussels (Jan 29, 2021)

Wraith stealth is indeed pretty crap, but it should have no issues on a low heat 3600 outside of major stress test programs

Derek can you show (Clear!) photos of your system and its fans, so we can see why taking the side panel off made such a huge temp difference?


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## thebluebumblebee (Jan 29, 2021)

Mussels said:


> why taking the side panel off made such a huge temp difference?


His case only has an 80 CM mm exhaust fan and then the PSU, a Seasonic M12II-520 EVO, runs on silent mode until 50% load, so it doesn't spin up to help remove the heat either.  I've always said that an 80 cm mm fan moves as much air as a sneezing gnat.

Seems that I recall that we had someone else who had a 3600 that just ran HOT.


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## Zach_01 (Jan 30, 2021)

What can you say about a cooler when it’s fan shroud is thicker than the actual cooler...






@Derek12 if you don’t have a big fan for open case testing, you can use a hairdryer on high speed blowing cold air to the CPU cooler directly (to the side, not on fan)


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## Kissamies (Jan 30, 2021)

thebluebumblebee said:


> His case only has an 80 CM exhaust fan and then the PSU, a Seasonic M12II-520 EVO, runs on silent mode until 50% load, so it doesn't spin up to help remove the heat either.  I've always said that an 80 cm fan moves as much air as a sneezing gnat.
> 
> Seems that I recall that we had someone else who had a 3600 that just ran HOT.


A 80cm fan would IMO move air pretty much..  I know you meant 80mm but I just had to.


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## freeagent (Jan 30, 2021)

Its as tall as the screw wtf lol.. 

Looks like the same fan though. Nice and quiet at 3500RPM, I thought it would have been louder


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## Mussels (Jan 30, 2021)

with correct thermal paste at stock settings, i'd be expecting a high of 80C, 95C sounds like the paste or mounting is wrong, or its ABSOLUTELY choked of all fresh air (or the fans are oriented backwards, etc)


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## Derek12 (Jan 30, 2021)

Thanks for the replies
I will try to post a photo of the system later



thebluebumblebee said:


> His case only has an 80 CM mm exhaust fan and then the PSU, a Seasonic M12II-520 EVO, runs on silent mode until 50% load, so it doesn't spin up to help remove the heat either.  I've always said that an 80 cm mm fan moves as much air as a sneezing gnat.
> 
> Seems that I recall that we had someone else who had a 3600 that just ran HOT.



I didn't know about that feature about 50% load, I've always thought the fan speed was controlled by just temp... but I saw the specs and you're right, I've got the PSU 5-6 years ago...

I've saw several people on the internet with Ryzen 5 3600 running at 95ºC!



freeagent said:


> Its as tall as the screw wtf lol..
> 
> Looks like the same fan though. Nice and quiet at 3500RPM, I thought it would have been louder



the RPMs max out at 2500 here, seems to be the max speed for WS, and yes it's relatively silent, the intel stock one was louder but it reached that 3500 RPM figure.



Mussels said:


> with correct thermal paste at stock settings, I'd be expecting a high of 80C, 95C sounds like the paste or mounting is wrong, or its ABSOLUTELY choked of all fresh air (or the fans are oriented backwards, etc)



I've remounted it several times, made sure the four screws are tight until I couldn't turn them any more with normal force, I replaced the thermal paste with the correct amount (as stated that improved things a bit), and I've an intake 120mm fan just about in front of it, whose speed is controlled by CPU temp, so it should get enough fresh air from outside when hot. The fans are now oriented correctly, it's true I've mounted the exhaust fan backwards the first time, but I've fixed that before I made this thread



Zach_01 said:


> What can you say about a cooler when it’s fan shroud is thicker than the actual cooler...
> 
> View attachment 186178
> 
> ...


will try that, but even without it dropped significantly!, but I will try to run a full session of CB this time (although the max temp is reached about 0,5 mins with the case closed)



Apocalypsee said:


> Indeed. Wratih Stealth sucks so bad, the only thing you can do with it is disable Turbo and it will run at manageable temperature. How bad is it/ I replace it with Arctic Freezer 64 Pro that was meant to cool Athlon 64 and it runs the 3600 just fine with Turbo enabled


I tried disabling core performance boost, and the temps reached 80º at full.

Maybe I will get a new HS that fits in my case, and if it's still hot, then a new case (that fits in the desk space)...

Another thing, *is it possible to reduce idle clock further*? Hwinfo says the minimum is 500MHz but even in power saving mode and minimum clock at 0 or 1% it only gets to 2100... it consumes about 20W in idle with its temps at 40's, while the i3 6100 consumed 1-2W and temps were basically ambient's (it's true the R5 is in order of magnitudes more powerful than the i3 but I would like to reduce that power consumption...


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## Apocalypsee (Jan 30, 2021)

Derek12 said:


> I tried disabling core performance boost, and the temps reached 80º at full.
> 
> Maybe I will get a new HS that fits in my case, and if it's still hot, then a new case (that fits in the desk space)...
> 
> Another thing, *is it possible to reduce idle clock further*? Hwinfo says the minimum is 500MHz but even in power saving mode and minimum clock at 0 or 1% it only gets to 2100... it consumes about 20W in idle with its temps at 40's, while the i3 6100 consumed 1-2W and temps were basically ambient's (it's true the R5 is in order of magnitudes more powerful than the i3 but I would like to reduce that power consumption...


You don't need to disable core performance boost because PBO will still make it boost (If Im not Mistaken). The thing you need to do is to go to Windows Power Plan and set 'Maximum CPU state' to 99% that will disable boost. For idle you set the 'Minimum CPU state' to 0% that will make it idle as long as there is no background process taking your CPU cycle.


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## Derek12 (Jan 30, 2021)

Apocalypsee said:


> You don't need to disable core performance boost because PBO will still make it boost (If Im not Mistaken). The thing you need to do is to go to Windows Power Plan and set 'Maximum CPU state' to 99% that will disable boost. For idle you set the 'Minimum CPU state' to 0% that will make it idle as long as there is no background process taking your CPU cycle.


You're right, I didn't thought about that, I am using the Ryzen balanced power plan but I've set the maximum to 99 and maximum temperature in CB is 69ºC though the CPU clock is a bit lower and Windows says 97% CPU usage... I got 7870 score (versus 8676 with 100%)


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## ixi (Jan 30, 2021)

DR4G00N said:


> The 3600X & XT come with the Wraith Spire which is not actually bad at all. The problem is that the 3600 comes with the Wraith Stealth which is about half the size (about the same size as an Intel Celeron/Pentium stock cooler). Even the 3400G which is a quad-core comes with the Spire cooler.


Ohh, didnt know that 3600 has different cooler.


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## Apocalypsee (Jan 30, 2021)

Derek12 said:


> You're right, I didn't thought about that, I am using the Ryzen balanced power plan but I've set the maximum to 99 and maximum temperature in CB is 69ºC though the CPU clock is a bit lower and Windows says 97% CPU usage... I got 7870 score (versus 8676 with 100%)
> 
> View attachment 186190


Yep about right, without boost the CPU will run at 3600MHz instead of above 4000MHz. That is what I do before change the cooler. The temps looks nicer but I hope it won't affect the thing you do at least until you buy new cooler. I play games on my rig and even at 3600MHz its plenty fast for 1080p gaming


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## Derek12 (Jan 30, 2021)

Apocalypsee said:


> Yep about right, without boost the CPU will run at 3600MHz instead of above 4000MHz. That is what I do before change the cooler. The temps looks nicer but I hope it won't affect the thing you do at least until you buy new cooler. I play games on my rig and even at 3600MHz its plenty fast for 1080p gaming


Thanks! I was referring the clock is a bit lower than 3600, it's 3500MHz and Windows task manager says 97% CPU usage but I think the difference is minimal


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## Mussels (Jan 30, 2021)

Derek12 said:


> Thanks for the replies
> 
> I tried disabling core performance boost, and the temps reached 80º at full.
> 
> ...



CPB sounds like the issue, its over volting it past what the stock cooler can handle

Idle clock reporting doesnt work when the cores are *off* - you wont see low clock speeds because instead of clocking down, they power off completely (and dont report anything to monitoring software, which shows the last speed they reported)

Theres a whole lot of weirdness when it comes to ryzen 3000 and idle, but my experience boiled down to: update to the latest chipset driver, and watch background programs. Icue was a particular PITA, as it totally breaks ryzen idle states unless you delete certain monitoring files it seems to use extremely outdated versions of.


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## Derek12 (Jan 30, 2021)

Derek12 said:


> Thanks! I was referring the clock is a bit lower than 3600, it's 3500MHz and Windows task manager says 97% CPU usage but I think the difference is minimal


I also forgotten to say the fans weren't at full speed when I made the graph...


Mussels said:


> CPB sounds like the issue, its over volting it past what the stock cooler can handle
> 
> Idle clock reporting doesnt work when the cores are *off* - you wont see low clock speeds because instead of clocking down, they power off completely (and dont report anything to monitoring software, which shows the last speed they reported)
> 
> Theres a whole lot of weirdness when it comes to ryzen 3000 and idle, but my experience boiled down to: update to the latest chipset driver, and watch background programs. Icue was a particular PITA, as it totally breaks ryzen idle states unless you delete certain monitoring files it seems to use extremely outdated versions of.


Many thanks, I didn't know that, it could like Android's AIDA64 which sometimes say when cores are turn off...


I played a bit with fan's curve, setting the intake ones as silent, but CPU and exhaust to use standard settings (they don't make as much noise as  two 12mm at full speed...)
Now with CPB disabled and windows max CPU to 100 the temp is 74, I don't know why it's higher than using Windows max CPU power plan as 99%




Maybe I'll try to play undervolting a bit, but this computer will be used for teleworking so I don't want it to be unstable, but maybe I can live without CPB until I get a new HS and/or case that can support CPB.

I've researched Ryzen a bit (the last AMD CPU used was an Athlon 64 several years and finally I will finally settle with this settings for now with the current setup...

Left CPB enabled
Enabled PBO.
PPT 55W ...
Left voltage at stock
All fans on silent profile.
Windows power settings 100% CPU





And now max temperature is 76º and fans aren't even at full CB score is 7950.  I believe this may be the best performance I can get out of the CPU without high temps and without killing single core perf with the stock HS and this case, but if anyone has ideas (beyond replacing HS and case) I would be grateful


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## Zach_01 (Jan 30, 2021)

@Derek12 keep in mind that Core clock on HWiNFO (or any common software) does not contain all the core c-states but the active one (C0). And this is called the discrete clock.
All C-states together (C0/C1/C6) are stated only by the effective clock. The higher the effective clock the higher the performance and vice versa, no matter what discrete clock says.

Simple explanation:
C0 = active state
C1 = sleep state
C6 = deep sleep state

You can also see this on the "Core X C0/1/6 Residencies" How much time (in %) each core spends on each state.






						Effective clock vs instant (discrete) clock
					

It has become a common practice for several years to report instant (discrete) clock values for CPUs. This method is based on knowledge of the actual bus clock (BCLK) and sampling of core ratios at specific time points. The resulting clock is then a simple result of ratio * BCLK. Such approach...




					www.hwinfo.com
				




I've done in the past tests with different power plans and the 99~100% max CPU state. With 1usmus's "Universal Power plan" (CPB/PBO enabled via BIOS) when I set max state at 99% the CPU boosted frequently just under 3600MHz, but if anything was heavy enough (intensive CPU gaming for example) the boost would hit 4100~4200MHz briefly.


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## Derek12 (Jan 30, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> @Derek12 keep in mind that Core clock on HWiNFO (or any common software) does not contain all the core c-states but the active one (C0). And this is called the discrete clock.
> All C-states together (C0/C1/C6) are stated only by the effective clock. The higher the effective clock the higher the performance and vice versa, no matter what discrete clock says.
> 
> Simple explanation:
> ...


Thanks for the explanation! Using Ryzen Master it shows the real estate of the cores...
I tried disabling PPT and using the power plan with 99 CPU and this is the CPUz score



However with PPT enabled at 55W and max CPU 100 I get this





It seems that there is a performance penalty with the 99% but on the bright side the temps are lower.


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## Zach_01 (Jan 30, 2021)

Of course there is a penalty, since the boost is cut.

Ryzen Master is so complicated... that only AMD knows and understands what exactly is reporting for CPU temp, speed, voltage and states.
Im sticking to HWiNFO. This is how I manage to know that much about the system.

This is me...

Completely stock (CPB/PBO enabled)


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## Derek12 (Jan 30, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> Of course there is a penalty, since the boost is cut.
> 
> Ryzen Master is so complicated... that only AMD knows and understands what exactly is reporting for CPU temp, speed, voltage and states.
> Im sticking to HWiNFO. This is how I manage to know that much about the system.
> ...


I agree. I am also sticking with Hwinfo, most reliable, easy and complete info software I've used


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## HD64G (Jan 30, 2021)

55W limit is very low but you lost 2% on singlethreading and ~10% on multithreading performance to the Zach_01 stock, so you are good enough imho. I would test the 65W limit also and if it allows temps to stay below 80% then ti will be your optimum with your case's airflow which seems to be your main limit of your CPU performance.


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## Zach_01 (Jan 31, 2021)

I do not know how @Derek12 measures power but here are 2 examples of temp effect.
Cooler: H110i 280mm, Ambient 25°C (air to radiator). Min~Max Fans/Pump rpm (550~2050/2340~2820)
Notice the frequency, voltage and power difference. Its not the best test as the cooler's capacity is high for the CPU under almost any circumstances, but it will give you an idea.

---------------------------------------------------------

1st test CPU-Z stress test. Keep in mind that this is considered a light load.
Temp diff 5°C. Freq diff 35~40MHz (effective)

1a. Low cooling capacity


Max reported power (PPT) 70W, 87.5% PowerReportingDeviation(Accuracy)
True power 70 / 0.875 = 80W

1b High cooling capacity


Max reported power (PPT) 72.2W, 89% PowerReportingDeviation(Accuracy)
True power 72.2 / 0.89 = 81W

-------------------------------------------------------

2nd test Prime95 FFTs 128KB. This is one of the heaviest and worse load the CPU can face. I usually avoid running it under any conditions but I do briefly and rarely for sake of observation.
Temp diff ~7°C. Freq diff 60~65MHz (effective)

2a. Low cooling capacity (wrong voltage circled sorry, its the above)


Max reported power (PPT) 96W, 90.5% PowerReportingDeviation(Accuracy)
True power 96 / 0.905 = 106W

2b High cooling capacity


Max reported power (PPT) 103W, 92.2% PowerReportingDeviation(Accuracy)
True power 103 / 0.922 = 111.5W

-------------------------------------------------------

Cinebench R15/20 are right in the middle of the above 2 tests in terms of CPU stress and power consumption.


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## Space Lynx (Jan 31, 2021)

Derek12 said:


> Thank you all
> I am using the preapplied thermal paste (I had a tube somewhere but I misplaced it, if I find it I will repaste and check if it gets lower.
> I will use this computer for gaming and working (but the games I am currently playing are not CPU hungry and it runs about 70 but the load is very low).
> I will try to pick up an aftermarket HS, maybe that Hyper 212 Evo or some Noctua that is not too big for my case (my case fans are Noctua and they are very fine). But as I am in the eve of upgrading to a M2 SSD maybe I will pick up a cheap one



21 euros   https://www.amazon.es/NOX-NXHUMMERH...per+212&qid=1612058308&sr=8-4#customerReviews

or 27 euros






						DEEP COOL GAMMAXX GTE V2 Blanco, Disipador de CPU, con 4 Tubos de Calor, un 120 mm CPU Ventilador PWM de LED Blanco, Compatible con Intel/AMD : Amazon.es: Electrónica
					

Compra online DEEP COOL GAMMAXX GTE V2 Blanco, Disipador de CPU, con 4 Tubos de Calor, un 120 mm CPU Ventilador PWM de LED Blanco, Compatible con Intel/AMD. Envío en 1 día GRATIS con Amazon Prime.



					www.amazon.es
				




those should help a lot over stock cooler.


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## Mussels (Jan 31, 2021)

My dad has one of the gammax coolers, they're quite good for the price


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## Derek12 (Jan 31, 2021)

HD64G said:


> 55W limit is very low but you lost 2% on singlethreading and ~10% on multithreading performance to the Zach_01 stock, so you are good enough imho. I would test the 65W limit also and if it allows temps to stay below 80% then ti will be your optimum with your case's airflow which seems to be your main limit of your CPU performance.


I tried 65W and in CB temps gone up to 83º,. Fans are almost at full speed. I got 8309 pts.




CPUZ score, now closer to @Zach_01







Zach_01 said:


> I do not know how @Derek12 measures power but here are 2 examples of temp effect.
> Cooler: H110i 280mm, Ambient 25°C (air to radiator). Min~Max Fans/Pump rpm (550~2050/2340~2820)
> Notice the frequency, voltage and power difference. Its not the best test as the cooler's capacity is high for the CPU under almost any circumstances, but it will give you an idea.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info! Yes, I also measure power with that item. Running P95 with 128k FFT, you can clearly see the PPT limited to 65W, with this test, the CPU clock has throttled down to 3.5 so Windows say 98% CPU usage (that means as you clearly say, this is the most demanding load).





lynx29 said:


> 21 euros   https://www.amazon.es/NOX-NXHUMMERH212-Nox-Base-refrigeradora/dp/B01BE7AW28/ref=sr_1_4?__mk_es_ES=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&dchild=1&keywords=hyper+212&qid=1612058308&sr=8-4#customerReviews
> 
> or 27 euros
> 
> ...


I see and it's and interesting product, the only problem is that it needs the original brackets for AM4 and I think I lost 'em or even thrown them, after removing them for the stock HS  I suppose I need a cooler that has its own bracket or comes with those


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## HD64G (Jan 31, 2021)

So, with the 65W limit you have almost the full performance and much lower temps. All good me thinks.


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## Derek12 (Jan 31, 2021)

HD64G said:


> So, with the 65W limit you have almost the full performance and much lower temps. All good me thinks.


Correct, maybe a new HS is not a priority thing anymore with these settings (but I am going to run a torture test for CPU and GPU at the same time), so I could save money for an M2 drive, or more RAM.


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## damric (Jan 31, 2021)

The wraith stealth is weak, but 90% of the problems are people mounting it wrong. I see people not get every corner tightened down correctly all the time. Verify each corner spring screw clicks. The cooler will function, but very poorly, if not every corner is secure. The stealth is plenty fine for stock normal operation.


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## Derek12 (Jan 31, 2021)

damric said:


> The wraith stealth is weak, but 90% of the problems are people mounting it wrong. I see people not get every corner tightened down correctly all the time. Verify each corner spring screw clicks. The cooler will function, but very poorly, if not every corner is secure. The stealth is plenty fine for stock normal operation.


Yes,  I remounted several times and made sure all 4 screws are tight until they don't turn and made sure the backplate didn't fell out. What i didn't notice is any click (beyond the spring noises and maybe the MB creaking...


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## Zach_01 (Jan 31, 2021)

Derek12 said:


> I tried 65W and in CB temps gone up to 83º,. Fans are almost at full speed. I got 8309 pts.
> View attachment 186314
> 
> CPUZ score, now closer to @Zach_01
> ...


The actual power consumption of that run is
65 / 1.062 = 61.2W PPT

Not an issue... just so you know.


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## cst1992 (Feb 8, 2021)

There's a site called userbenchmark.com that has a benchmark tool which you can use to compare your results with others' R5 3600s. Technically you should get above 50 percentile, but with your results so close to others' now I don't even doubt it.

About the fans, 80mm are indeed very small.
Airflow is a function of the fan's area, curvature of the blade and speed of the motor. Let's assume the same speed and curvature, so this is the comparison of various fans in airflow relative to your 80mm fan:
80mm: 1x
92mm: 1.26x
120mm: 2.14x
140mm: 2.91x
200mm: 5.94x(!)

Of course, since the 200mm fans are so large, they also move much slower and still move a LOT of air.
You should get a 114% improvement in airflow just by upgrading to 120mm fans.


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## Mussels (Feb 8, 2021)

cst1992 said:


> There's a site called userbenchmark.com that has a benchmark tool which you can use to compare your results with others' R5 3600s. Technically you should get above 50 percentile, but with your results so close to others' now I don't even doubt it.
> 
> About the fans, 80mm are indeed very small.
> Airflow is a function of the fan's area, curvature of the blade and speed of the motor. Let's assume the same speed and curvature, so this is the comparison of various fans in airflow relative to your 80mm fan:
> ...



terrible website, and double terrible for AMD ryzen users. google search 'userbenchmark scandal' - the lengths they'll go to, to protect their favoured hardware is nuts.
(ryzen faster in every benchmark, so intel wins! - but then the tweaks to the algorithm to do so, make i3s faster than i9s in their ratings. theres a good reddit thread that pops up in the start of the search)


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## cst1992 (Feb 8, 2021)

That's not good.
However, a numbers-to-numbers comparison of the same model of CPU should still be valid, right?
Unless their benchmark software is flawed in itself?


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## Mussels (Feb 8, 2021)

cst1992 said:


> That's not good.
> However, a numbers-to-numbers comparison of the same model of CPU should still be valid, right?
> Unless their benchmark software is flawed in itself?


i simply cant recommend or trust it, when they're fudging numbers behind the scenes - UB also only does very brief short tests, which dont give time for weak cooling to get over whelmed (or for CPU power limits to come into play - another choice they made that benefits intel)


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## RJARRRPCGP (Feb 8, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Its as tall as the screw wtf lol..
> 
> Looks like the same fan though. Nice and quiet at 3500RPM, I thought it would have been louder


I still like those heatsinks better than the Intel push-pin heatsinks!


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## cst1992 (Feb 9, 2021)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> I still like those heatsinks better than the Intel push-pin heatsinks!


Intel push-pins are good, but only on Intel's own heatsinks(because they actually use good quality plastic, and have a fixed size that aligns correctly with motherboard slots).
Using those push pins with aftermarket coolers is a PITA.


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## Mussels (Feb 9, 2021)

cst1992 said:


> Intel push-pins are good, but only on Intel's own heatsinks(because they actually use good quality plastic, and have a fixed size that aligns correctly with motherboard slots).
> Using those push pins with aftermarket coolers is a PITA.


they dont last long, and they're not durable for multiple uses. I've had to do a lot of really basic repairs over the years from those pins simply popping loose in otherwise functioning office systems (vibration + time) and then the worst ones, users fixing it themselves and smashing the plastic clips off
Wraith stealths yucky screws are at least forever.


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## Derek12 (Mar 8, 2021)

Thank you
For now I will keep the system as is until I get money to buy an aftermarket, for now it works fine*

*Except for 2 WHEA_Logger events, I will open a new thread

Many thanks


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## Gmr_Chick (Mar 8, 2021)

Didn't read the whole thread (it's late and I'm sleepy) but...


Derek12 said:


> Hi
> I have the stock HS fan plus two intake cases (one in front and other in the side) and one exhaust fan
> 
> And when running cinebench the CPU goes to 95ºC with all fans at full blast mode, but *never beyond* that, the CPU throttles down to 3.8GHz but never below that at least in a Cinebench session.
> ...



Has ANYONE been keen on bringing up the fact that the board listed in the above screenshot (Asus Prime A520M-A) is - and I mean no disrespect with this, truly - crap, and therefore could be contributing to OP's heat problem in addition to lack of decent airflow? Not to mention A520 isn't exactly meant for even a mild overclock or PBO.


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## Derek12 (Mar 8, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Didn't read the whole thread (it's late and I'm sleepy) but...
> 
> 
> Has ANYONE been keen on bringing up the fact that the board listed in the above screenshot (Asus Prime A520M-A) is - and I mean no disrespect with this, truly - crap, and therefore could be contributing to OP's heat problem in addition to lack of decent airflow? Not to mention A520 isn't exactly meant for even a mild overclock or PBO.



Why would the MB contribute to heat issues? UEFI Settings?
Also I don't plan to OC.


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## Gmr_Chick (Mar 8, 2021)

Derek12 said:


> *Why would the MB contribute to heat issues?* UEFI Settings?
> Also I don't plan to OC.



Insufficient VRM.


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## Derek12 (Mar 8, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Insufficient VRM.


That wouldn't cause stability issues?

Except 2 WHEA Logger events the system is rock stable, and limiting power to 65W has solved the overheating issues.


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## tabascosauz (Mar 8, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Insufficient VRM.



Even if it was insufficient to push 88W PPT, it would thermal throttle and push the CPU down to base clock or lower, thr VRM wouldn't have anything to do with contributing to CPU temps. A shitty setup might run hot but the MOSFETs aren't dumping heat onto the CPU - they're far too insignificant for that

A520M-A has an okay VRM for a 65W chip, all things considered. It sounds like @Derek12 needs to pony up the $40 for a 212 Black or Freezer 34 to solve this problem.

If you had to manually limit PPT on a 3600, of all CPUs, to 65W which is 23W *below* stock, it's as obvious an indicator as any where the problem lies.


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## Gmr_Chick (Mar 8, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> What can you say about a cooler when it’s fan shroud is thicker than the actual cooler...
> 
> View attachment 186178
> 
> View attachment 186179



AMD went cheap for the 3600 compared to the stock cooler that came with the 1600. The fan on the 1600 was great. I remember when I got my first 3600 and looking at the stock cooler... Like, geez I guess the Wraith went on a diet or something   

I can't knock it completely though, I guess. On my 2nd go-around with the 3600 (at present) I had to use the stock fan when an experiment didn't go quite right. It did the job, but I was careful not to push the damn thing too hard. Didn't want it to get heat stroke


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