# Steam Fanatics Review-bomb "Metro Exodus" on Metacritic



## btarunr (Feb 15, 2019)

"Metro Exodus" is the week's big AAA PC launch, and the latest entry to the post-apocalyptic horror-survival shooter franchise by 4A Games. The Ukrainian studio recently pulled the game from Steam and made it an exclusive with rival DRM platform Epic Games, in pursuit of a higher revenue-share. This invited inexplicable hatred from Steam users, who appear to have review-bombed the game on review ratings aggregator Metacritic. 

Metacritic presents averages of reviews by media publications and user-reviews side-by-side. This is vital as it helps uninformed or undecided gamers know if a game is overrated by the media. In case of "Exodus," Much of the 0-rated user-reviews include lines that criticize the game's non-availability on Steam or its withdrawal from the platform. The Metacritic review-bombing is the latest episode in a long saga of animosity between Steam users and "Exodus" developer 4A Games. 4A Games did initially solicit pre-orders for the game on Steam, and abruptly stopped its sales late-January. Those who had pre-ordered would continue to receive the game and its updates. 4A muddied the waters further by responding to initial criticism from Steam users by threatening to desert the PC platform as a whole, inviting more bile from some really angry gamers. The game received "generally positive" reviews from professional game reviewers.





*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## kastriot (Feb 15, 2019)

Well steam fanatics if Gabe fatso Ale was not so greedy you would have it on steam so blame him.


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## Space Lynx (Feb 15, 2019)

kastriot said:


> Well steam fanatics if Gabe fatso Ale was not so greedy you would have it on steam so blame him.



ya the double standard amazes me. more money for game developers while at the same time less cost to consumers... personally am glad to see the free markets finally working instead of just one company dominating and stacking that money.


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## Shambles1980 (Feb 15, 2019)

"This invited inexplicable hatred from Steam users, "

pretty sure its been 100% explained.


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## rtwjunkie (Feb 15, 2019)

btarunr said:


> 4A muddied the waters further by responding to initial criticism from Steam users by threatening to desert the PC platform as a whole


That’s not what the 4A employee said.  He merely said what the logical result will be.  Future development costs come from publisher. 

The publisher is not going to put forth pc development money if the PC game makes no money due to people’s anger. He merely said what the likely result could be.


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## unikin (Feb 15, 2019)

I like epic store. I got Subnautica and What Remains of Edith Finch for free. I revisit store twice a month to see if I any good free game is coming. So far only these 2 were worth downloading. I say keep them coming. I didn't buy anything from them though.


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## ezodagrom (Feb 15, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> ya the double standard amazes me. more money for game developers while at the same time less cost to consumers... personally am glad to see the free markets finally working instead of just one company dominating and stacking that money.


More money for the developers, that is true, but, the only developers that Epic is bribing to make their games exclusive to the Epic store are well known developers that would be successful on Steam anyway, not the struggling indies that actually would need help.

Less cost to consumers though? That's just not true, the game was cheaper on authorized resellers like the Razer store (before the Epic bribe) than it is on the Epic Store.

Personally I wouldn't mind the Epic Store if only they weren't bribing developers to make their games timed exclusive, that anti-competition practice has no place on an open market like the PC.
If a developers chooses to release a game exclusively on a specific store without the influence of a moneyhat/bribe, that's fine, but what Epic is doing though, paying devs to not release on Steam, that is not fine.


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## moproblems99 (Feb 15, 2019)

> This invited inexplicable hatred from Steam users



This is total horseshit.  This is nothing more than a bunch of children having a temper tantrum.  I don't quite remember this level of vitriol to Rockstar about RDR2, at least the review bombing.  I would like to see many, many, more games do this.  Just for spite now.

Children.  Grow up.


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## Shambles1980 (Feb 15, 2019)

wait.. because some kids review bomb things as the publisher did a bait and switch. you think more company's should do a bait and switch???

so when intel were caught bribing best buys to only sell their cpu's and people found out and were then angry. you think other mfrs should have forced retailers to only sell their things in retaliation to the disgruntled customers voicing their pitiful opinions??

is this a case of 2 wrongs don't make a right but 3 will?


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## TesterAnon (Feb 15, 2019)

This was expected so its not surprising, bad move from the publisher.


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## PerfectWave (Feb 15, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> ya the double standard amazes me. more money for game developers while at the same time less cost to consumers... personally am glad to see the free markets finally working instead of just one company dominating and stacking that money.



Would be if all stores can sell the game not just one so customer can choose.


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## Crackong (Feb 15, 2019)

That's kind of expected, when they shut down the steam page without any warning.
I am pretty sure things should be much smoother if they allow 2-3 days for the fans to buy it from steam before shutting it down.


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## rhpsystems (Feb 15, 2019)

Users criticizing a platform and defending another for a game, that finally, we can play if we like or not play it. It does not make any sense, much less defend one company or another, both will take your money. It is not a discussion of platforms, but of who takes your money.

Metacritic scores lose all relevance. If every time I get angry with a game or a publisher I generate hate campaigns to criticize the publisher and not the product in question, I'm doing things wrong.


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## jmcosta (Feb 15, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> This is total horseshit.  This is nothing more than a bunch of children having a temper tantrum.  I don't quite remember this level of vitriol to Rockstar about RDR2, at least the review bombing.  I would like to see many, many, more games do this.  Just for spite now.
> 
> Children.  Grow up.



 I don't know what to say about the review bombing but the whole thing was a scummy decision. 
This isn't how you compete with other platforms just buying in.


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## moproblems99 (Feb 15, 2019)

jmcosta said:


> I don't know what to say about the review bombing but the whole thing was a scummy decision.
> This isn't how you compete with other platforms just buying in.



Yes because I am sure Steam doesn't have exclusives....or Xbox....or Playstation...Need a few more dots....


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## Crackong (Feb 15, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> Yes because I am sure Steam doesn't have exclusives....or Xbox....or Playstation...Need a few more dots....



I don't think the problem is "Exclusive" , the problem was the "Hey I shut down the steam page, no warnings, now you have to buy it from Epic, Ha Ha Ha " thing.


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## windwhirl (Feb 15, 2019)

I honestly can't approve of review bombing Exodus. Moving the game to Epic's store was a business decision, not a game development one. It pisses me off, but that's about it.


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## moproblems99 (Feb 15, 2019)

Crackong said:


> I don't think the problem is "Exclusive" , the problem was the "Hey I shut down the steam page, no warnings, now you have to buy it from Epic, Ha Ha Ha " thing.



I mean...those that bought it still get to use Steam....so what's the problem?


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## Crackong (Feb 15, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> I mean...those that bought it still get to use Steam....so what's the problem?



Problem was they advertise the game on the steam platform for a long period.
Removing the game from steam without any reasonable time for the customers to react is not ethical.
And, a company should always act towards customers not against them.
In this case, no warning period was a big NO NO, they are effectively deceiving the customer (and potential customers) on steam.


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## moproblems99 (Feb 15, 2019)

Crackong said:


> Problem was they advertise the game on the steam platform for a long period.
> Removing the game from steam without any reasonable time for the customers to react is not ethical.
> And, a company should always act towards customers not against them.
> In this case, no warning period was a big NO NO, they are effectively deceiving the customer (and potential customers) on steam.



We are assuming that it was not Steam that initiated it.  What if Steam said: 'We are removing your game from our store starting immediately if you don't comply with our demands.'  Why are we assuming that Steam is the victim?


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## ezodagrom (Feb 15, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> Yes because I am sure Steam doesn't have exclusives....or Xbox....or Playstation...Need a few more dots....


The PC market is is not the same as consoles, what happens on XBox or Playstation is irrelevant.

When Steam has exclusives (though more often than not, Steam keys are available on authorized 3rd party stores anyway), they're not the result of a bribe from Valve, Valve is not forcing anyone to not release outside of Steam. Meanwhile Epic is doing the opposite, they're bribing developers to not release on Steam.



moproblems99 said:


> We are assuming that it was not Steam that initiated it.  What if Steam said: 'We are removing your game from our store starting immediately if you don't comply with our demands.'  Why are we assuming that Steam is the victim?


That's not what happened though. Epic made a deal with Deep Silver to make the game exclusive to the Epic Store for 1 year.


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## Crackong (Feb 15, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> We are assuming that it was not Steam that initiated it.  What if Steam said: 'We are removing your game from our store starting immediately if you don't comply with our demands.'  Why are we assuming that Steam is the victim?



Did you check the statements from Steam and THQ on 29 Jan ?
It was Koch Media and Deep silver


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## Nkd (Feb 15, 2019)

Crackong said:


> Problem was they advertise the game on the steam platform for a long period.
> Removing the game from steam without any reasonable time for the customers to react is not ethical.
> And, a company should always act towards customers not against them.
> In this case, no warning period was a big NO NO, they are effectively deceiving the customer (and potential customers) on steam.



Someone makes a business decision and it’s ethics. Ethics is ripping you off or taking your money and running or other shit. They stopped selling on steam, big deal. Did the product itself change somehow? No! So 

$10 cheaper on epic store vs steam. I don’t know how they are not passing the discount on to consumers. Wait til next year and you can buy on steam.


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## moproblems99 (Feb 15, 2019)

ezodagrom said:


> The PC market is is not the same as consoles, what happens on XBox or Playstation is irrelevant.



I mean not really.  There were games that I wanted to play that were XBox or PS exclusives...but I didn't go review bomb them because they didn't bring them to PC.  It's not like it would be a terribly hard port now.



Crackong said:


> Did you check the statements from Steam and THQ on 30 Jan ?
> It was Koch Media and Deep silver



Yes, corporate statements are always truthful and factual.  See any of AMD or NV statements.


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## ezodagrom (Feb 15, 2019)

Nkd said:


> Someone makes a business decision and it’s ethics. Ethics is ripping you off or taking your money and running or other shit. They stopped selling on steam, big deal. Did the product itself change somehow? No! So
> 
> $10 cheaper on epic store vs steam. I don’t know how they are not passing the discount on to consumers. Wait til next year and you can buy on steam.


$10 cheaper than on Steam...only in North America.
Also the Razer Store had the game for cheaper than the Epic Store before the Epic bribe (game got removed from there thanks to the exclusivity), so in the end the consumers only lose.


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## moproblems99 (Feb 15, 2019)

ezodagrom said:


> Also the Razer Store had the game for cheaper than the Epic Store before the Epic bribe, so in the end the consumers only lose.



Too quote a now likely bankrupt retail store: "You should have bought it when you saw it."  There are no victims here.  Everyone can play it.


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## Crackong (Feb 15, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> Yes, corporate statements are always truthful and factual.  See any of AMD or NV statements.



Oh my.....if you don't believe them, Okay.
Check on Deep silver facebook and twitter then, they announced that on their page.


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## moproblems99 (Feb 15, 2019)

Crackong said:


> Oh my.....if you don't believe them, Okay.
> Check on Deep silver facebook and twitter then, they announced that on their page.



I don't really care what happened.  It doesn't excuse any of this.


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## Crackong (Feb 15, 2019)

Nkd said:


> $10 cheaper on epic store vs steam. I don’t know how they are not passing the discount on to consumers. Wait til next year and you can buy on steam.



Thanks for the suggestion. 
I will wait for the game to move away from this "Exclusive".
Not going the touch the Epic launcher.



moproblems99 said:


> I don't really care what happened.  It doesn't excuse any of this.


You can't just say "I don't care" when being beaten by facts.

Accept and move forward.


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## moproblems99 (Feb 15, 2019)

Crackong said:


> Thanks for the suggestion.
> I will wait for the game to move away from this "Exclusive".
> Not going the touch the Epic launcher.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry, what facts?  Can you enlighten us by your presence in the negotiations?  I see the word 'fact' has lost its meaning.

Edit:

Just answer this question:  Can you still purchase and play Metro Exodus?


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## TheOne (Feb 15, 2019)

I wonder if Epic is going to do sales like steam.


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## xenocide (Feb 15, 2019)

Metro has always been a pretty niche series.  Not sure why it's being pushed as some game that's on par for something like Assassins Creed or Far Cry.  It's more like a AA series historically.  Metro 2033's only claim to fame was being well optimized and really demanding on hardware.  Metro Last Light was an average game that was still fairly demanding.  Neither were runaway successes, and in the case of 2033, it did good numbers before it spent the last several years as a perennial $5 game that was a good benchmark for new rigs.


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## dozenfury (Feb 15, 2019)

The game itself is actually pretty good.  But I'm not sure if it's good enough to pull people over to use the Epic store.  It seems that 4A is really expecting the reception to Metro Exodus to be so amazing and such a must-have that it pushes gamers to do that.  We'll see.  I think 4A will know the answer to that question pretty quickly from the sales and streaming numbers, within a week or so of today's release.


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## Shambles1980 (Feb 15, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> Yes because I am sure Steam doesn't have exclusives....or Xbox....or Playstation...Need a few more dots....


how far you miss the point on this makes me think your doing it deliberatly just to be contrary


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## moproblems99 (Feb 15, 2019)

xenocide said:


> Not sure why it's being pushed as some game that's on par for something like Assassins Creed



I bought a couple of the AC titles only because I like history.  I honestly couldn't tell the difference between them over like 3 titles other than the theme.  I really want to try Odyssey because of the history thing but the previous games were so repetitive.  Is it any better?



Shambles1980 said:


> how far you miss the point on this makes me think your doing it deliberatly just to be contrary



Will it help get my point across if I review bomb all your posts?

EDIT:

Not to mention, the developer did not threaten anyone.  Drama much?  This whole escapade is a microcosm of how humanity has lost all logic and runs off an empty tank of knee-jerk emotions.


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## Shambles1980 (Feb 15, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> I bought a couple of the AC titles only because I like history.  I honestly couldn't tell the difference between them over like 3 titles other than the theme.  I really want to try Odyssey because of the history thing but the previous games were so repetitive.  Is it any better?
> 
> 
> 
> Will it help get my point across if I review bomb all your posts?


wont bother me..

but tell you what, post a choherent and accurate rebuttal, make sure i can see its here.. then just before i read it move it to a forum i have no intention of visiting. and see how that works out.


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## xenocide (Feb 15, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> I bought a couple of the AC titles only because I like history.  I honestly couldn't tell the difference between them over like 3 titles other than the theme.  I really want to try Odyssey because of the history thing but the previous games were so repetitive.  Is it any better?



I've heard Odyssey and Origins are a lot better than the games before them.  Haven't played them, but they're definitely on my radar.


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## moproblems99 (Feb 15, 2019)

Shambles1980 said:


> wont bother me..
> 
> but tell you what, post a choherent and accurate rebuttal, make sure i can see its here.. then just before i read it move it to a forum i have no intention of visiting. and see how that works out.



That fits perfect into my edited post above.  How rude and uncalled for.


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## Bones (Feb 15, 2019)

I CAN say there is no Steam bias hate over it for me..... Because I don't have a steam account nor ever will. 

I knew from the start of things like Steam years ago it was just a load of DRM BS getting ready along with snooping too from things like Gamespy as an example.
That along with all the other things I have and could yet name is why I won't get an account of such for any reason up to the point I just don't game online anymore.

All this is just another thing going on with so-called "Services" like Steam and it ain't stopping anytime soon. 
You use it, expect it because it will be.

Oh - Meant to quote something about someone saying it's always AMD and NV that lies..... Intel has been long proven to be the REAL liar of all vs what the other two have done by far AND wide.
TBH they all do it, it's just Intel has been dirtier and overall more cut-throat about it.


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## 64K (Feb 15, 2019)

The developer 4A Games didn't make a threat about not bringing the next Metro to PC if the review bombing didn't stop. It was just an employ there that got his feelings hurt by the review bombing when he had worked so hard on Exodus. 4A Games was quick to make a statement that the employee didn't represent 4A games.

The review bombing was childish and stunts like that is the reason why reviews on Steam and Metacritic can't really be taken seriously.


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## moproblems99 (Feb 15, 2019)

I really do wonder why everyone is upset at the developers because Steam grossly overcharges for selling the game and someone else comes along and offers the dev's publisher a better deal so they jump ship.  Why aren't people upset at Steam for hoarding everyone's profits?

Then I remembered that Corporations are evil and should be shit on.  Except the Steam.  And Facebook.  They make lives easier.


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## Mistral (Feb 15, 2019)

kastriot said:


> Well steam fanatics if Gabe fatso Ale was not so greedy you would have it on steam so blame him.



In all fairness, Gabe is not financially backed by CCP puppet Tencent...


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## Shambles1980 (Feb 15, 2019)

you still miss the point entirely..

Epic Paid them to PULL the game from other stores. they didnt help develop a game as an exclusive from the start. they Paid them money after it was already in other store fronts To Pull the game and sell it only on their platform.
No one cares if fortnight is a epic store exclusive they made it.
Steam does not pay any one to pull games from other store fronts.
Playstation exclusives were developed under license to sell the hardware..
I wont bother with xbox exclusives as they are mostly MS exclusive now.

now i dont agree with review bombs. but epics bull shit was 100% bull shit and i understand why people get pissed off.
Like console exclusives being exclusive to a store that i dont use affects me the same way. (I just dont buy it).

if they suffer terrible sales then thats their own fault.
if they pull the game from pc and sell it only on console well good luck with that as historically the metro games have only ever sold a few 100k games on consoles. (the publishers know that and thats why they had to apologize about the rogue dev making stupid comments)

I hope people just dont buy the game and they all learn a lesson..
But you are firmly in the camp of. Consumers shouldn't have a say, and bribery is a legitimate business practice.

its not just a matter of a better % deal on the games. that wasnt even enough insntive for the publishers. epic also paid them to be exclusive.
If you want to take the better % deal thats fine. but you dont decided to do it right before launch without warning and only because you also get paid.


you would probably shit a brick if MS paid every one to only sell games on the windows store. Because Then you would understand what the issue is.

Im sure you would be ecstatic if ms said.
You can only sell your games in windows store now. if its for sale any where else then it will be detected as a virus and nuked as standard in windows, Also we only charge 15% on a game sale so you will be better off any way.


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## Countryside (Feb 15, 2019)

Bunch of spoiled brats who cant get what they want so they bomb negative reviews well stupid is as stupid does.


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## Shambles1980 (Feb 15, 2019)

Countryside said:


> Bunch of spoiled brats who cant get what they want so they bomb negative reviews well stupid is as stupid does.



bunch of spoiled brats who pay to make 4a only play with them and not go over to that nasty gabe's house to play.


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## rtwjunkie (Feb 15, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> really want to try Odyssey because of the history thing but the previous games were so repetitive. Is it any better?


Yes, it is fantastic.  Mostly because you aren’t playing as part of the assassin’s and only a bit of the lore is there...great for those that haven’t played others.

What Odyssey is, is a huge, open world RPG with what really feels like a living world.  It is very nearly The Witcher 3 level in that regard, and easily take you to 120 hours or more.


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## Razrback16 (Feb 15, 2019)

I wouldn't call Steam users' angry reaction "inexplicable". It was a terrible move by the publisher. It's not 4A games'fault, but the move was very anti-consumer and just a bad decision by the publisher - the game should be available at a number of different digital distributors - they shouldn't be trying to force customers to buy it at a specific store.


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## Mescalamba (Feb 15, 2019)

Hm, maybe adding "review" should require also owning that game.


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## moproblems99 (Feb 15, 2019)

Shambles1980 said:


> Like console exclusives being exclusive to a store that i dont use affects me the same way. (I just dont buy it).



Logical.



Shambles1980 said:


> But you are firmly in the camp of. Consumers shouldn't have a say, and bribery is a legitimate business practice.



Not what I said at all.  Paid exclusives have been around since the beginning of commerce.  It is not bribery.  I also never said consumers shouldn't have a say.  I said consumers should take appropriate action.  Not be children.



Shambles1980 said:


> ou can only sell your games and windows store now. if its for sale any where else then it will be detected as a virus and nuked as standard in windows, Also we only charge 15% on a game sale so you will be better off any way.



That is completely different.  Epic isn't preventing the game from running because it is a virus.  You just have to wait for Steam.



rtwjunkie said:


> What Odyssey is, is a huge, open world RPG with what really feels like a living world. It is very nearly The Witcher 3 level in that regard, and easily take you to 120 hours or more.



That sir is high praise.  Thank you for the recommendation.  Feel free to PM to keep out of this thread.


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## 64K (Feb 15, 2019)

Razrback16 said:


> I wouldn't call Steam users' angry reaction "inexplicable". It was a terrible move by the publisher. It's not 4A games'fault, but the move was very anti-consumer and just a bad decision by the publisher - the game should be available at a number of different digital distributors - they shouldn't be trying to force customers to buy it at a specific store.



At the end of the day the review bombing is fake. The reviewers only further hurt the credibility of future reviews.

Epic is hell-bent on starting their own store and they are willing to pay other Publishers/ Developers to make their game a timed exclusive. If they get a lot of people to sign up for their store then we will see more of this in the future. I think they need to improve the store first and the customers will come. Steam started out with some exclusives too but it was only games developed by Valve. A while back Epic said that they want to make a store that would rival Steam. If they think they can do that just by paying for games and not improving the store they are wrong.


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## GoldenX (Feb 15, 2019)

No store can beat the good old Bay, that port has everything.

Oh, to add some salt:


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## Razrback16 (Feb 15, 2019)

64K said:


> At the end of the day the review bombing is fake. The reviewers only further hurt the credibility of future reviews.
> 
> Epic is hell-bent on starting their own store and they are willing to pay other Publishers/ Developers to make their game a timed exclusive. If they get a lot of people to sign up for their store then we will see more of this in the future. I think they need to improve the store first and the customers will come. Steam started out with some exclusives too but it was only games developed by Valve. A while back Epic said that they want to make a store that would rival Steam. If they think they can do that just by paying for games and not improving the store they are wrong.



Was there something you wanted to discuss with me? (trying to figure out why you quoted me) I didn't comment on review bombing, were you looking for my opinion on that?

Edit - and just to add not trying to be rude, just want to make sure I'm not missing something and understand what you're asking


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## Countryside (Feb 15, 2019)

Razrback16 said:


> I wouldn't call Steam users' angry reaction "inexplicable". It was a terrible move by the publisher. It's not 4A games'fault, but the move was very anti-consumer and just a bad decision by the publisher - the game should be available at a number of different digital distributors - they shouldn't be trying to force customers to buy it at a specific store.



Like i said before Bombarding negative reviews on older Metro games and the new one just because the new game will be released on a other platform is just unintelligent and childish.

These reviews have absolutely nothing to do with actual gameplay and will drove off new customers.

Now its upto the developer to choose with digital distribution platform they find to be best for them and lets say if most games were avaible on most digital distribution platforms now how will that work out.


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## Razrback16 (Feb 15, 2019)

Countryside said:


> Like i said before Bombarding negative reviews on older Metro games and the new one just because the new game will be released on a other platform is just unintelligent and childish.



My post did not address review bombing, only the fact that steam users were angry about the move (because it was a bad move by the publisher) as they had every right to be, IMO - I'm not even into that series, and I thought it was a terrible move. I don't condone the review bombing of the older Metro games because it skews the results and makes the reviews unreliable.


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## Deleted member 158293 (Feb 15, 2019)

If there's review bombing then the developer should  take note as to why and either correct the situation or ignore their clientele.

Both are valid choices and have consequences.


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## 64K (Feb 15, 2019)

Razrback16 said:


> Was there something you wanted to discuss with me? (trying to figure out why you quoted me) I didn't comment on review bombing, were you looking for my opinion on that?
> 
> Edit - and just to add not trying to be rude, just want to make sure I'm not missing something and understand what you're asking



You're not being rude but I did think you were implying that the review bombing was legit. Sorry for the confusion.


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## Pings (Feb 15, 2019)

Are you sure it is just "fanatics" and not pissed off people who are made at a stupid developer?


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## XiGMAKiD (Feb 15, 2019)

With this kind of dedication to do this crap it's a case of serious Steam fanboism, do they have a crush on Gabe or something?


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## Countryside (Feb 15, 2019)

Razrback16 said:


> My post did not address review bombing, only the fact that steam users were angry about the move (because it was a bad move by the publisher) as they had every right to be, IMO - I'm not even into that series, and I thought it was a terrible move. I don't condone the review bombing of the older Metro games because it skews the results and makes the reviews unreliable.



How can it be a bad move by the publisher. The game is available on a digital distribution platform if you dont like that platform it's not the publisher fault.


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## newtekie1 (Feb 15, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> ya the double standard amazes me. more money for game developers while at the same time less cost to consumers... personally am glad to see the free markets finally working instead of just one company dominating and stacking that money.



That isn't a free market. If they wanted a free market, they'd release the game on every platform and let the consumers decide which one they prefer to use.


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## Razrback16 (Feb 15, 2019)

Countryside said:


> How can it be a bad move by the publisher. The game is available on a digital distribution platform if you dont like that platform it's not the publisher fault.



Because it was the publisher's decision (to be clear, not the developer's), and it was a bad one. Limiting where people can buy the game is simply anti-consumer and not a good idea for this exact reason - it makes people mad. I don't even play that series and it made me kinda mad. Edit - just adding on here that IMO if they wanted to add the game to the Epic Games store on top of Steam, that's totally cool. It's simply an anti consumer move to pull it from Steam, which is clearly a favorite of many consumers - IMO just not good for business. It's a bad PR move, and simply makes a large portion of your potential customer base angry. Ill-advised.

People get used to their stores - just like people generally have a preferred grocery store. If you started taking items that people really liked out of Kroger and putting them only in Walmart, then people who hate Walmart probably will stop buying those items. It may or may not impact financial revenue, but I don't consider people being angry about it to be an unreasonable reaction.



64K said:


> You're not being rude but I did think you were implying that the review bombing was legit. Sorry for the confusion.



No worries, my apologies for the confusion as well. I didn't want to get into the review bombing bit in my post, just mainly addressing the article author's line about Steam users' reactions being "inexplicable" as I thought it was pretty obvious and well-reasoned why they were angry about the move.


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## rv8000 (Feb 15, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> ya the double standard amazes me. more money for game developers while at the same time less cost to consumers... personally am glad to see the free markets finally working instead of just one company dominating and stacking that money.



What amazes me are thoughtless comments such as this one (and the others I guess).

In the best case scenario that they only lose 10% of total sales due to not selling on steam, the dev's are STILL making less money by going through Epic Games (it all depends on how fat of a paycheck they got to cut the exclusivity deal with EG). If you sit down and do the actual with math; with Metro Exodus selling for $50 US on the EG storefront and the now theoretical $60 price tag on Steam, even with the base 30% cut Steam takes they only make 2$ more per copy sold. Factor in the 10% minimal loss of total sales due to exclusivity (yay steam fanatics, or other people with brains), and other such things like Steam's shifting structure based on number of copies sold (of which Metro Exodus would totally exceed), there is not a chance in hell developers will make more through selling exclusively on the Epic Games store.

And then you also have to think about the fact the Epic Games store doesn't equalize prices throughout different regions of the world. In certain countries gamers will have to pay more for the game than the USD equivalent, and this just adds up to further lost sales when people dont feel like forking 70-80+ USD for a game.

Not a single part of this deal and release for Metro Exodus has anything to do with your "Free Market" concept, it is basically the complete opposite. This whole fiasco has done nothing but cause bad press for the Dev's of Metro, and imho none of this was a good deal for the devs or consumers. The only party that serves to benefit here is Epic Games, and that's exactly how they want it!


----------



## rtwjunkie (Feb 15, 2019)

Pings said:


> Are you sure it is just "fanatics" and not pissed off people who are made at a stupid developer?





Countryside said:


> How can it be a bad move by the publisher. The game is available on a digital distribution platform if you dont like that platform it's not the publisher fault.



To make it clear, this was their publisher decision, not 4A the developer.  Publishers control almost everything.  It’s a very one-sided relationship since the publisher has the money to support the game development.  Think of them like a movie producer, but with more control over the final product.


----------



## 64K (Feb 15, 2019)

XiGMAKiD said:


> With this kind of dedication to do this crap it's a case of serious Steam fanboism, do they have a crush on Gabe or something?



Steam often gets a free pass. Steam wasn't very good in the beginning either. Another thing is that gamers say they dislike any DRM but Steam is the biggest user of DRM ever. Most of their games won't even launch unless I can go online. I've found a few that will allow you to play the game without any connection and a few that will allow me to play later after I've launched it one time during the day. I have a stable internet service though. Not all people do.


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## Vayra86 (Feb 15, 2019)

PerfectWave said:


> Would be if all stores can sell the game not just one so customer can choose.



That is not how the market works. Its a product that can be sold at specific resellers, just like millions of other products in all market segments around the world. Its not even a platform restriction but just a storefront we're talking about. The 'PC gamer' loses absolutely nothing by being limited to one store, except for some personal preference that is bordering on insanity - to tie yourself willingly to a Steam store for all your gaming. All these stores are still bound by the same laws and regulations and you have the very same consumer protection that applies. Even the fully optional 2 hour refund policy is the same between Steam and Epic.

If anything is anti-consumer here, its the consumer himself. There is a very simple choice for each one to be made: do you want to buy it via Epic or not. If you don't, your loss, let's see where it lands on the market. Thát is what free markets do and thát is how consumers can exercise power.


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## silentbogo (Feb 15, 2019)

I'm sure review bombing won't stop until Metro Exodus either dead, or moves to Steam.
4A led down a lot of people by rolling with publisher's decision.



xenocide said:


> Metro has always been a pretty niche series. Not sure why it's being pushed as some game that's on par for something like Assassins Creed or Far Cry. It's more like a AA series historically. Metro 2033's only claim to fame was being well optimized and really demanding on hardware. Metro Last Light was an average game that was still fairly demanding. Neither were runaway successes, and in the case of 2033, it did good numbers before it spent the last several years as a perennial $5 game that was a good benchmark for new rigs.


If you look at Galyonkin's stats on Steamspy (basically a thing that empowered epic to create their store), both 2033  and LL sold over 2M copies each on Steam alone. More so on consoles. 
Sounds like a successful title to me.

Ironically the target audience are the ones who suffered the most. With S.T.A.L.K.E.R. we had actual physical copies, so you did not have to tie yourself to Steam or any other platform. With Metro we had Steam, which in recent years became a de-facto gaming platform in Ukraine. All financial issues, like accepting local currency, double-conversion overcharge etc. have been eliminated several years ago. You can pretty much maintain a Steam account and buy games even without a credit card (just plain old cash and nearest payment terminal). 
With Epic - I have no idea. I've created an Epic account back when the upcoming UT was in pre-alpha (and now it is abandonware), but I don't have a burning desire to share my personal and financial data with these guys. 



Countryside said:


> How can it be a bad move by the publisher. The game is available on a digital distribution platform if you dont like that platform it's not the publisher fault.


It's exactly the publisher's fault. You don't pull the game off the platform right before release. That was a dick move.
If it was initially announced on Epic and wasn't offered on Steam in the first place - it would've been more logical.
Wanna know why there is so much outrage: 
1) Thousands of people who pre-ordered on steam are now stuck with a base game and possibly no updates/bug fixes 'till next year. Not even talking about DLC
2) People who preordered collectors editions and physical copies expected to get Steam keys but will receive Epic keys instead
3) Potential buyers will have to commit to a new and unproven platform if they want to play it now.
4) Possible issues with financial part of things (see above)

On the serious side of things : the best way to make more money and make your game cheaper for the end-user is to drop publishers altogether.


----------



## Dimi (Feb 15, 2019)

How anyone can defend these anti consumer practices is beyond me.

Steam, Origin & Uplay are the only ones i allow on my system. I don't even care if the others give away games for free.

Also, I wonder why 4A Games moved from Kiev to Malta. 

Oh wait, Malta is Europe's corporate tax haven.


----------



## Patriot (Feb 15, 2019)

Pings said:


> Are you sure it is just "fanatics" and not pissed off people who are made at a stupid developer?



Yeah, the review bombing are just fanatics.... 236 reviews, 2-5m game owners, 66M steam subscribers.
You can be pissed at what deep silver has done for very very valid reasons and not review bomb.
Heck, you can be mad at what that dumb 4a dev said... calling people not true fans for being unwilling to use the Epic launcher.  
Calling all of PC gamers pirates and a boycott would results in no more games.  As others have stated... there is a reason THQ apologize for this.
Metro core sales have always been PC.

Dismissing the arguments of the rest of the metro owners because of the actions of 236 people is more retarded than the people writing the reveiws.
I was so happy with 4a for the GOG and linux releases... I seriously doubt they have no say in the actions of deep silver.
I am amused that they know their audience so poorly that they thought there would be no retribution for these actions.


----------



## moproblems99 (Feb 15, 2019)

Patriot said:


> I am amused that they know their audience so poorly that they thought there would be no retribution for these actions.



You are quite right.  They probably assumed their fan base was mature enough to deal with adversity (if you want to stretch it that far) in a healthy manner.  They also probably thought their fans loved their game instead of Steam.  The probably also thought their fans would understand this is the publisher's decision.



silentbogo said:


> Wanna know why there is so much outrage:
> 1) Thousands of people who pre-ordered on steam are now stuck with a base game and possibly no updates/bug fixes 'till next year. Not even talking about DLC
> 2) People who preordered collectors editions and physical copies expected to get Steam keys but will receive Epic keys instead
> 3) Potential buyers will have to commit to a new and unproven platform if they want to play it now.
> 4) Possible issues with financial part of things (see above)



It was already reported that patches and everything else would work just fine.  Read people.


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## 64K (Feb 15, 2019)

For me, I will wait and get Exodus next year on Steam. I don't mind having yet another store. Hell, I have Steam, GOG, Origin, Rockstar,Uplay and now the Microsoft store. Epic needs to prove themselves before I buy any games there.  I've just resigned myself to the obvious truth that all the big Publishers want their own store. Probably Bethesda will be next in making the next Elder Scrolls game a timed exclusive to their store.


----------



## GoldenX (Feb 15, 2019)

So, apart from consoles and browsers, now we have DRM fanboys. Sheesh.


----------



## Shambles1980 (Feb 15, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> That is completely different.  Epic isn't preventing the game from running because it is a virus.  You just have to wait for Steam.


oh sorry i should have said:

"
Im sure you would be ecstatic if ms said.
You can only sell your games in windows store now. if its for sale any where else then it will be detected as a virus and nuked as standard in windows, Also we only charge 15% on a game sale so you will be better off any way.  and don't worry its only for a specified length of time"

So now everything should be fine by your reasoning.


And just to make sure some people understand. 
The biggest issue is Epic PAID to PULL the game from other stores. The publishers didnt move because of the better % or to reach more people. They did it because they were paid to do it, I know you would all be pissed if microsoft had done the same thing years ago with gfwl or now with the windows store.
I dont care about epic offering competition to steam. I approve of it, 
But if your idea of making the store a Better deal is to give publishers benefits whilst offering no benefits to the consumers,  "and no paying some one to be exclusive on your platform only is NOT a benefit to a consumer"  then you must have been eating paint flakes as a baby or some thing. 

Im Less likely than ever to use the epic store because they chose to do this.
I hope the devs manage to get away from the publishers because this kind of stuff is just wrong. and for the devs and the franchise to get a bad name because of a publishers choice is just not good. 
and you can say "yes those silly steam kids shouldnt have done such a naughty thing"  but the "naughty thing" reflects their distaste about what the publishers did.

undoubtedly some here would prefer the people just shut up and not voice any complaints. but thats not how consumerism works. 
I dont agree with a review bombing, but if thats the only way they think they will be heard then thats what they will do. 
Still better than having a mini riot outside some devs studio or something.


----------



## neatfeatguy (Feb 15, 2019)

I could see the idea of having an exclusive release of a game tied to a specific digital distributor, but only for an exclusive 1 day early buy from a distributor at discount so you can pay a little less and get to play the game 1 day earlier.

This way the publisher doesn't alienate any customer, people can still buy the game on any platform they wish. If the customer wants to be a bit more frugal to save some money and play the game a day earlier they could buy the game on Epic. Otherwise, you wait a full 24 hours later until the game is released on Steam/GoG/GMG/HumbleBundle/etc...

Sure, you'd have people that would still bitch, but it's business. Businesses are in it to make money, always looking for a one-up over other competition.


----------



## Upgrayedd (Feb 15, 2019)

I feel like the statement from Deep Silver about having no intentions to leave PC behind got left behind..almost on purpose..to stir the pot a bit more..


----------



## moproblems99 (Feb 15, 2019)

Shambles1980 said:


> oh sorry i should have said:
> 
> "
> Im sure you would be ecstatic if ms said.
> ...



Not really.  You are comparing MS treating games as virus and removing them if you didn't buy from them to having a game removed from a store.  If you can't see the difference...then I don't know what to tell you.

This post is a prime example of the issue at hand.  Something about that empty take of knee-jerk emotions.


----------



## Shambles1980 (Feb 15, 2019)

you cant see the similarity of paying some one money for removing stuff from other stores.
I use it as an example as i thought it may make you think for a second and find some empathy for what the people who have the grievances feel.

its quite unbelievable how some people simply cannot empathize with others because the issue does not affect them. theres probably a word for people who cannot empathize with others. perhaps you should check what it is.


----------



## moproblems99 (Feb 15, 2019)

Shambles1980 said:


> you cant see the similarity of paying some one money for removing stuff from other stores.
> I use it as an example as i thought it may make you think for a second and find some empathy for what the people who have the grievances feel.
> 
> its quite unbelievable how some people simply cannot empathize with others because the issue does not affect them. theres probably a word for people who cannot empathize with others. perhaps you should check what it is.



What is the issue?  Can you not obtain it?


----------



## Shambles1980 (Feb 15, 2019)

Explained it like 5 times now, either you chose to pretend that i didnt. you dont want to admit the issue exists, or you dont care to change your stance.
so pointless to carry on the debate with you.
I have no interest in buying the game "never did". But the stunt epic pulled made it so i wont buy any games from their store now. I know you cannot comprehend why, But there is no way possible to explain it to you. its simply beyond your emotional acuity, (empathetic)


----------



## 64K (Feb 15, 2019)

We don't even know if Epic will maintain their store and improve it. They don't even have a search bar. You have to scroll down to find games. It's not a big deal right now because they don't have many games but as more and more games get added it could get tiresome when I'm looking for a particular game. A search bar is just something basic for any game site to have imo.


----------



## moproblems99 (Feb 15, 2019)

Shambles1980 said:


> Explained it like 5 times now, either you chose to pretend that i didnt. you dont want to admit the issue exists, or you dont care to change your stance.
> so pointless to carry on the debate with you.
> I have no interest in buying the game "never did". But the stunt epic pulled made it so i wont buy any games from their store now. I know you cannot comprehend why, But there is no way possible to explain it to you. its simply beyond your emotional acuity, (empathetic)



There is no issue.  You have a preference or conviction that you will not buy anything other than something from Steam.  Sorry, but that is not an 'issue'.  If you couldn't buy the game for some reason I would support you and empathize with you.  But your personal preferences do not equal issues.


----------



## Shambles1980 (Feb 15, 2019)

see
Again you chose to ignore what i said lol.

i said Multiple times now the issue is:

EPIC PAID TO PULL THE GAME FROM ALL STORES

there cannot say it clearer than that.
Undoubtedly you will some how read that differently but whatever.

Sure in the past i would have used steam any way. but if epic had offered me a reason for me to swap i would have, but after this stunt no i wont be using epic.


----------



## moproblems99 (Feb 15, 2019)

Shambles1980 said:


> Stuff....



Why thank you, have a Merry Christmas yourself!


----------



## kid41212003 (Feb 15, 2019)

Childish move by Steam users. Review bombing only hurts the platform's creditability.


----------



## Shambles1980 (Feb 15, 2019)

Not really seeing how some users hurts steams credibility. 
Now if steam had decided to pay devs not to release games on epic.. That would have hurt their credibility, but given the reply's of some in this thread i actually dont think even that would have.


----------



## Patriot (Feb 15, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> You are quite right.  They probably assumed their fan base was mature enough to deal with adversity (if you want to stretch it that far) in a healthy manner.  They also probably thought their fans loved their game instead of Steam.  The probably also thought their fans would understand this is the publisher's decision.



You must be a console gamer.
People play on PC to avoid exclusives.
If a platform is superior it doesn't require bribes... and yes paid exclusives are Very much bribes.
Fans do understand their decision completely.  It was about money, not fans.  Fans get an inferior experience and US fans get $10 off.  Everywhere else gets screwed.
GOG and Steam are much superior platforms to Tencent/Epic.  I prefer GOG because well, it's as close to owning physical media as you can get.
Dismissing reasons wont get you anywhere... you sound like the G2A dev, name calling and ignoring all the stated reasons of frustration.
I will treat this as I do console exclusives.  You can reward the publisher for hurting the community, I will not.


----------



## Ubersonic (Feb 15, 2019)

"The Metacritic review-bombing is the latest episode in a long saga of animosity between Steam users and "Exodus" developer 4A Games. "

It's worth bearing in mind that these people aren't just "Steam users", they are also 4K Games customers, customers irate at the anti-consumer tactics that have been employed for this release (which were not present for either of the previous releases).




moproblems99 said:


> Yes because I am sure Steam doesn't have exclusives....or Xbox....or Playstation...Need a few more dots....


Actually the only Steam games that are tied to Steam are the ones Valve made in house (I.E Half-Life franchise, Portal franchise, etc).  Hence why this has been such a firestorm over what Epic/etc have done here, because for all it's faults Steam has never done anything this anti-consumer.


----------



## moproblems99 (Feb 15, 2019)

Patriot said:


> People play on PC to avoid exclusives.



Nope.  Haven't bought a console since the PS2.



Patriot said:


> People play on PC to avoid exclusives.



How's that working out?

I thought people played on the PC so they didn't have turd graphics.  I must have been mistaken that people play on PC for Steam.


----------



## Xuper (Feb 15, 2019)

> Another shady greedy arrangements between publisher and owner of game launcher/store, of course at the expense of consumer. I say no to these practices and vote with my wallet.
> Game is quite bad- its the same boring Metro game, with good graphics and bad everything else. Story, characters, shooting mechanics- they all suck. Game lacks great atmosphere of previous ones, instead it has Mad Max vibe noone asked for. No thanks. Dont buy this game, its not worth. *Wait year for Steam version, or forget it entirely.* Its not worth your time and money


Some of comments are about Steam


----------



## Super XP (Feb 15, 2019)

rtwjunkie said:


> That’s not what the 4A employee said.  He merely said what the logical result will be.  Future development costs come from publisher.
> 
> The publisher is not going to put forth pc development money if the PC game makes no money due to people’s anger. He merely said what the likely result could be.


And that's the problem. The very fact Ukrainian Studio and who ever else thought of this bone headed move, that pulled the game from STEAM is a testament of how ridiculous the move was. Stupid Business Move., which will come out soon enough. 
Not only is this Anti-Competition, its outright forcing people NOT TO CHOOSE how they would like to purchase the game.  

Why not release the game on both STEAM and EPIC, and let Gamer's decide. Problem Solved, but of course we know who would dominate, hence why they made this decision. In the end, the developers will suffer from poor sales for the 1st year, if STEAM users actually do ban the game till its released on there perfected platform. STEAM.



Ubersonic said:


> "The Metacritic review-bombing is the latest episode in a long saga of animosity between Steam users and "Exodus" developer 4A Games. "
> 
> It's worth bearing in mind that these people aren't just "Steam users", they are also 4K Games customers, customers irate at the anti-consumer tactics that have been employed for this release (which were not present for either of the previous releases).
> 
> ...


Don't forget Left 4 Dead 1 & 2, and people have been yelling out loud where the F is Left 4 Dead 3? Quite angry with valve actually lol


----------



## 64K (Feb 15, 2019)

Shambles1980 said:


> Not really seeing how some users hurts steams credibility.
> Now if steam had decided to pay devs not to release games on epic.. That would have hurt their credibility, but given the reply's of some in this thread i actually dont think even that would have.



He probably meant the credibility of Steam reviewers. 

As has been said by others here. 4A Games and Steam aren't even an issue in this. Koch Media and Deep Silver made the decision to pull the game from Steam when offered money to do so by Epic. Gabe Newell has said this was unfair. Just having a game on Steam is valuable because it reaches so many millions of potential customers.


----------



## Super XP (Feb 15, 2019)

kid41212003 said:


> Childish move by Steam users. Review bombing only hurts the platform's creditability.


No No, childish to the morons that choose to remove this game off Steam for an exclusive year. That's who is responsible for this outcry which hurts there own credibility. Not the other way around. They choose this path, now they have to suck it up and eat the criticism. lol


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## natr0n (Feb 15, 2019)

Hive mind of hatred.


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 15, 2019)

PerfectWave said:


> Would be if all stores can sell the game not just one so customer can choose.



welcome to the free markets of capitalism, don't buy it if you don't want. if they lose enough sales then they will change their policy in the future. that is the beauty of the free markets. personally if I were wanting to buy it right now, I would just buy it on Epic Games store.  



ezodagrom said:


> More money for the developers, that is true, but, the only developers that Epic is bribing to make their games exclusive to the Epic store are well known developers that would be successful on Steam anyway, not the struggling indies that actually would need help.
> 
> Less cost to consumers though? That's just not true, the game was cheaper on authorized resellers like the Razer store (before the Epic bribe) than it is on the Epic Store.
> 
> ...




they are helping a lot of indie devs actually, not sure what you smokin bro.  Journey probably would have never made it to PC, plus the free games they give away like Axiom Verge helps those small developers stay afloat long after sales have died off. I never saw Gabe throw them a helping hand, so yeah, word to the g dawgs


----------



## Super XP (Feb 15, 2019)

Why buy a game off the Epic Games Store? No reason nor incentive to buy any game from such a massive lacking platform. 
No wonder people rather buy STEAM Games. Just look at all the supportive features.


----------



## 64K (Feb 15, 2019)

Super XP said:


> Why buy a game off the Epic Games Store? No reason nor incentive to buy any game from such a massive lacking platform.
> No wonder people rather buy STEAM Games. Just look at all the supportive features.
> View attachment 116516



That sums it up nicely. I just want Epic to deserve my business.


----------



## Super XP (Feb 15, 2019)

64K said:


> That sums it up nicely. I just want Epic to deserve my business.


Agreed. 
If they had more options such as Steam for example, I would consider it. But they clearly aren't ready for prime time.


----------



## HD64G (Feb 15, 2019)

I am deeply worried about where things are going with humanity. Especially when people are taking games so seriously in order to become infuriated and hate people, companies, platforms, etc. Generation by generation we are going more crazy by the mile...


----------



## Shambles1980 (Feb 15, 2019)

i have the same worries about people not caring that businesses conduct shady practices and blame the consumers for getting upset about it.


----------



## Super XP (Feb 15, 2019)

HD64G said:


> I am deeply worried about where things are going with humanity. Especially when people are taking games so seriously in order to become infuriated and hate people, companies, platforms, etc. Generation by generation we are going more crazy by the mile...


People have a choice to install Epic and play Metro Exodus now or simply wait for the Steam Version. But what people should not be doing is bashing the game because the publisher made a bad decision. Simply boycott the game for a year then buy it on Steam once available. If you are upset with this decision, e-mail the publisher and give them flack.


----------



## Shambles1980 (Feb 15, 2019)

Super XP said:


> If you are upset with this decision, e-mail the publisher and give them flack.


100% not gonna end up in the spam list and deleted 
But review bombing hurts metacritic more than any one else so they really shouldnt do it.


----------



## Super XP (Feb 15, 2019)

Shambles1980 said:


> 100% not gonna end up in the spam list and deleted
> But review bombing hurts metacritic more than any one else so they really shouldnt do it.


Agreed. 
They shouldn't lol, but they are unfortunately. 

I have an idea, why not review bomb the publisher, not the game.


----------



## B-Real (Feb 15, 2019)

Internet retards. Since the Epic Launcher move announcement, the two Metro games have 25% ratings on Steam. Pathetic people... Moreover, users on Metacritic are usually dumb too. Just watch BfA's and other games' ratings. Internet has gone waaaaay down.


----------



## Ravenas (Feb 16, 2019)

Metro should have been on Steam. Steam and Metro have been synonymous succeses.


----------



## Nkd (Feb 16, 2019)

this is just silly shit. Judge the game for what it is. Steam seems to have brainwashed people, the cult is real lol. This game is damn good, buy it and enjoy it. People need to forget the politics and enjoy the game.


----------



## HD64G (Feb 16, 2019)

Shambles1980 said:


> i have the same worries about people not caring that businesses conduct shady practices and blame the consumers for getting upset about it.


The tense is more than it should be for something that is supposed to entertain the people (gaming is an entertainmnent after all, apart from the people that make money of it). That worries me. In the recent years people take gaming much more seriously than they should. And that shows that they don't care as much for real life matters. Because if they did, they wouldn't spend themselves into hating persons or companies related to gaming matters.


----------



## newtekie1 (Feb 16, 2019)

HD64G said:


> I am deeply worried about where things are going with humanity. Especially when people are taking games so seriously in order to become infuriated and hate people, companies, platforms, etc. Generation by generation we are going more crazy by the mile...



Yeah, hating people because of their actions is miles worse than when we used to just hate them because of the color of their skin or their religion.


----------



## wahdangun (Feb 16, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> So, apart from consoles and browsers, now we have DRM fanboys. Sheesh.




Hahaha, totally right, it's just distribution platform, I mean if you're a gamer you have minimum of 8 gig of ram, so what's wrong with another 50 MB, we should judge the game and not the distribution platform.


----------



## HD64G (Feb 16, 2019)

newtekie1 said:


> Yeah, hating people because of their actions is miles worse than when we used to just hate them because of the color of their skin or their religion.


Hating anyone for anything so small and unimportant for the real life is sickness, but whoever has the ability to understand that, wouldn't need to be told so.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Feb 16, 2019)

When society finally collapses in on itself because of a myriad of issues these kids will WISH they had something as silly as "platform wars" to complain about. You think when Pearl Harbor was bombed kids were complaining about silly things? No they were suiting up for war. Same with after the towers fell. Time for a little perspective to keep humanity strong.


----------



## newtekie1 (Feb 16, 2019)

HD64G said:


> Hating anyone for anything so small and unimportant for the real life is sickness, but whoever has the ability to understand that, wouldn't need to be told so.



I totally understand that, but you are missing my point entirely. You statement that society is somehow getting worse because we hate people based on their actions is plain wrong and ignores history. I'm not saying it is OK, but it's better than what we've seen not all that long ago.

In my lifetime I've seen people murdered because of the color of their skin, murdered because of their religion, *MURDERED* because they come from the wrong country or because of their sexual orientation.  And you are sitting here trying to tell us that you're worried about humanities direction because some pissed off consumers posted bad reviews about a company because that company did something the company knew would piss people off and would be unpopular.  THAT is what concerns you about the direction humanity is going.  Sorry, but that's bullshit.


----------



## DeathtoGnomes (Feb 16, 2019)

it wouldnt surprise me if Metacritic "removed" some of the negative score and reviews. An 84 still is not all that bad.


----------



## HD64G (Feb 16, 2019)

newtekie1 said:


> I totally understand that, but you are missing my point entirely. You statement that society is somehow getting worse because we hate people based on their actions is plain wrong and ignores history. I'm not saying it is OK, but it's better than what we've seen not all that long ago.
> 
> In my lifetime I've seen people murdered because of the color of their skin, murdered because of their religion, *MURDERED* because they come from the wrong country or because of their sexual orientation.  And you are sitting here trying to tell us that you're worried about humanities direction because some pissed off consumers posted bad reviews about a company because that company did something the company knew would piss people off and would be unpopular.  THAT is what concerns you about the direction humanity is going.  Sorry, but that bullshit.



You are the one totally missing the point here. You are bringing up the matter of the existence of people that are psycopaths and kill people for their skin colour or other differences between them (this has been happening since the beginning of the human existence on the planet) to cover the problem that is the existence of more people for every new generation that has been confusing the reality with games or virtual worlds and acting violently (vocally mainly atm) against others just for gaming matters. Since when should anyone defend this rapidly worsening behaviour just because there are psychopaths of every past generation? Gaming isn't real life people! Get on with it, stop wasting your life in virtuality and live your real life out of computers or consoles or smartphones! Just a friendly advice from a tech enthusiast who sees more and more people around him losing their precious time and spirits on such unimportant matters.


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## Shambles1980 (Feb 16, 2019)

the only review i have seen that did not like the game was jim sterling, and where as i usualy agree with him, i did not really agree with his rdr2 review as i played that through with my brother and didnt really notice any probkems, "well just the putting my guns back on the horse constantly, and not being able to sell the guns i no longer wanted in my inventory)



HD64G said:


> You are the one totally missing the point here. You are bringing up the matter of the existence of people that are psycopaths and kill people for their skin colour or other differences between them (this has been happening since the beginning of the human existence on the planet) to cover the problem that is the existence of more people for every new generation that has been confusing the reality with games or virtual worlds and acting violently (vocally mainly atm) against others just for gaming matters. Since when should anyone defend this rapidly worsening behaviour just because there are psychopaths of every past generation? Gaming isn't real life people! Get on with it, stop wasting your life in virtuality and live your real life out of computers or consoles or smartphones! Just a friendly advice from a tech enthusiast who sees more and more people around him losing their precious time and spirits on such unimportant matters.



i have to disagree.
Gaming as most things is a hobby for most, and is a lot like sports where people enjoy and compete in it. but if you compare it to sports you don't end up with riots because of gaming. 
now publishers run a business. If a business decided to conduct shady practices then the people not only have a right to voice their opinions they have a duty to do so.
How they voiced their opinion initially was met with statements that basically amounted to "tough shit" So they then went and voiced their opinions in a different and non violent way.

what you are portraying is that they went out and started burning down buildings or something equally or even more aggressive.
If you honestly believe that "review bombing" is a sign of the world regressing in to anarchy then you have lead a sheltered life, the gaming comunity may be passionate about their hoby, but if you want to compare that to sports fans you would see the gaming community is acting a lot more reserved than some others.


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## Patriot (Feb 16, 2019)

At this point I would like to remind everyone that 236 people review bombed meta-critic.  there are 66M monthly active steam users... stop review bombing steam users in this thread...
And according to steam spy... 2-5M own the earlier metro games.  On steam there have been 4-5k negative reviews on each of the redux titles in the past month... there is also a healthy amount of fake  positive reviews in the past month detailing how to switch to epic... 

Amusing that people are getting mad at a minority of consumers overreaction and do the same themselves... and somehow decide anticompetitive is A-ok.

(assuming 2m people own both titles and there is complete overlap, and that each review is unique)   0.4% of Metro 2033 consumers review bombed... it is probably closer to 0.2%.

Now can we get back to the merits of the discussion rather than being dismissive of arguments?


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## 64K (Feb 16, 2019)

Patriot said:


> At this point I would like to remind everyone that 236 people review bombed meta-critic.  there are 66M monthly active steam users... stop review bombing steam users in this thread...



For such a small percentage of the total they did manage to cause a big stink.


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## Patriot (Feb 16, 2019)

64K said:


> For such a small percentage of the total they did manage to cause a big stink.



A lot more than 0.2% of the games owners are pissed at this anti-consumer move, but they aren't taking it out on the dev and previous games.


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## Wavetrex (Feb 16, 2019)

I don't get why aren't they simply selling on ALL platforms (that accept 3rd party games).
Jesus I really miss the time when you could have bought a game from a store, got a DVD and be done with it. No crappy online DRM and walled garden platform restrictions.


I despise Steam or any other DRM garden, if I am to like and defend something, it would only be *GoG*, because you get a DRM-free game that you just download and save on your USB stick or whatever and be done with it. NO FREEKIN' INTERNET NEEDED to play that game.
(Or any other online store that provided a digital copy to download and install like any other program, also DRM free)


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## 64K (Feb 16, 2019)

Wavetrex said:


> I don't get why aren't they simply selling on ALL platforms (that accept 3rd party games).
> Jesus I really miss the time when you could have bought a game from a store, got a DVD and be done with it. No crappy online DRM and walled garden platform restrictions.



Epic paid Koch Media and Deep Silver to make it a timed exclusive on their store for 1 year. It will come back to Steam after that. Epic wants to get the bulk of the sales at full price in this way and draw gamers to their store.


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## Shambles1980 (Feb 16, 2019)

its not a matter of defending steam for me.
If Steam had paid publishers Not to release on any other digital store for 1 year people would be in an uproar yelling anti competative anti consumer, and it would have probably ended up in court.
but for some reason because it was epic that did it some people dont see the issue, and they even turn around and say "well you can still buy it whats the problem" To me thats just missing the point.
I would say that i hope steam just starts paying other publishers to be exclusive for a year to steam and see how epic like that.
But I would have the same grievance with that as i do now.

now the people who have an issue because they want it on steam. I also understand. it was advertized on steam and steam has MANY advantages over epics launcher.
But i do not understand where people may want to defend epic by saying "its not an issue you can still buy the game or wait"
They 100% miss the point.
Not only was the game advertized as coming to steam and pulled at the last second "which people have a right to be angry about"
the reason why it was pulled from steam "because they were paid to pull it from all store fronts" is absolutely 100% anti competitive.
The same people not seeing this as an issue would have seen it as an issue if MS or STEAM pulled the same stunt.


also just to make it clear. i had no intention of buying this game on steam or anywhere else, but that does not mean that practices like this should be ignored by those of us with no vested interest in the game it is no good for any one.

If publishers/devs move to epic because they offer better % rates then thats one thing, and thats a fair market practice and would be up to steam to entice them back. but do you honestly believe that publisher saving isnt going to end up being the consumers cost to cover?
and what would happen if steam's costs stay the same and end users see better prices on steam so the publishers sell more compared to a better % on epic but the games cost more for the end users so tge publishers sell less.. 
OBVIOUSLY publishers understand that the difference in % is negligable compared to steams market reach. All epic had to do here was NOT pay to make the game exclusive and use that money to reduce the cost of the game (world wide) for the end users. That would have been acceptable.


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## HD64G (Feb 16, 2019)

Shambles1980 said:


> the only review i have seen that did not like the game was jim sterling, and where as i usualy agree with him, i did not really agree with his rdr2 review as i played that through with my brother and didnt really notice any probkems, "well just the putting my guns back on the horse constantly, and not being able to sell the guns i no longer wanted in my inventory)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fanatics of any kind are a curse for any society. Comparing gaming ones with sports ones doens't make it any better as the last ones exist for over a century now, whereas not a generation has passed since gaming has become popular and thus, the signs are very bad in this act of life also. Which is totally virtual mind you...


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## Shambles1980 (Feb 16, 2019)

Fanatics and people voicing their legitimate grievances in a non violent way are 2 different things.
by your logic Gandhi was a fanatic.

also from the thread title, i would like to see where the proof that all of the bad reviews came from steam users angry that the game isnt on steam. (i dont doubt that a lot were) but to outright state it as a known fact is  nothing more than yellow paper journalism.
Quite possible that a good % of people did not like the game, (although as mentioned the only reviewer so far i have found not liking it was jim sterling)


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## Ubersonic (Feb 16, 2019)

Super XP said:


> People have a choice to install Epic and play Metro Exodus now or simply wait for the Steam Version. But what people should not be doing is bashing the game because the publisher made a bad decision. Simply boycott the game for a year then buy it on Steam once available. If you are upset with this decision, e-mail the publisher and give them flack.


Your idea is great in theory, however it's one of those great in theory ideas that in reality is absolutely terrible.  Here's how it would work: People boycott the game for a year, Epic do it again, and again, and again, until the whole industry is ****ed.  This is one of those "once is once too many" situations.

I hate to use a WW2 analogy, but they're the easiest to do: If Europe had simply gotten on the same page and ragdolled Hitler when he invaded Austria then there wouldn't have been a problem, being civil about it and hoping he could be reasoned with is why another dozen countries fell.  Likewise, if Epic are allowed to get away with this next level anti-consumer tactic once then they will have no issue doing it again and again.


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## Shambles1980 (Feb 16, 2019)

Ubersonic said:


> Your idea is great in theory, however it's one of those great in theory ideas that in reality is absolutely terrible.  Here's how it would work: People boycott the game for a year, Epic do it again, and again, and again, until the whole industry is ****ed.  This is one of those "once is once too many" situations.
> 
> I hate to use a WW2 analogy, but they're the easiest to do: If Europe had simply gotten on the same page and ragdolled Hitler when he invaded Austria then there wouldn't have been a problem, being civil about it and hoping he could be reasoned with is why another dozen countries fell.  Likewise, if Epic are allowed to get away with this next level anti-consumer tactic once then they will have no issue doing it again and again.




its not just that..
what if steam now decided to pay publishers to be steam exclusives. then epic offer them more and steam then offer them more still. Who do you think will end up paying for that?? Epic? Steam? hell no it will be us.
there is no way that this sort of practice can be good for the consumers. and then in the end one of the company's will stop trying to compete and close down their store. Do you think the prices that they charged  to pay for the competition will come down after it has become the norm?? 
(ask Nintendo what it took for them to stop charging ridiculous prices on games. it sure as hell wasn't because they cared about consumers)

People like to say "welcome to the free market" But that is not how it works.
And for consumers to get screwed over because of shady practices is just not on, and people should not just bend over and wait till its to late to say something.


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## Patriot (Feb 16, 2019)

In an amusing turn of events... russian bots have been hired to make fake positive metro reviews.

https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/metro-exodus/user-reviews?dist=positive

A lot of the negative reviews are about game breaking bugs and it being openworld for openworld sake and not story driven like the past 2....Not Epic.


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## rtwjunkie (Feb 16, 2019)

Patriot said:


> A lot of the negative reviews are about game breaking bugs and it being openworld for openworld sake and not story driven like the past 2....Not Epic.


I thought it was supposed to have a story, with the goal of finding a new home to the east?


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## xenocide (Feb 16, 2019)

Super XP said:


> Why buy a game off the Epic Games Store? No reason nor incentive to buy any game from such a massive lacking platform.
> No wonder people rather buy STEAM Games. Just look at all the supportive features.
> View attachment 116516



The feature that isn't mentioned there, but is absolutely important and nobody seems to talk about, is Key Generation.  On Steam, Developers can generate key's for their game, and then sell those key's on other sites.  That's where the Humble Store gets their key's, that's where places like GOG and Green Man get their key's.  The most interesting part, is that Valve gets 0% from the keys sold this way--because the sale is technically through another company.  That means not only does Valve have more features for users, it even has means for Developers to sell on other platforms where they don't even take a cut.  Epic Games Store has no similar feature.  That means things like Humble Bundle are just not possible through Epic's store.  How much do you reckon devs make on sales through those third parties?  Because that revenue is about to disappear for them.


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## rtwjunkie (Feb 17, 2019)

xenocide said:


> that's where places like GOG and Green Man get their key's.


Um, when did GOG become a reseller?  As far as I know, all games for GOG are specific to the platform.

Developers actually have to do a little work to make games for GOG, which is why even new titles usually take a little while.  I have also never seen GOG sell keys for another site.


.


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## Crackong (Feb 17, 2019)

(Copied from my own comment in another topic)

The problem isn't "Exclusive" or "Steam monopoly".
It is their extremely poor execution of pulling off the steam page without sufficient time for customers (and potential customers) to buy (or you could call it "pre-order") the game on steam.
People don't like being forced to use something they are not familiar with.

Those wanna argue "It is just another launcher, no big deal".
Remember, "On steam" is considered as a part of the product and a part of advertisement.
Imagine what would happened if Metro Exodus only available via physical DVDs.
Customers (and potential customers) received all those advertisement from day one had to put "On steam" in mind while making their buying decision.

This "Exclusive" move ripped off people's buying decisions and forces them to buy a different product (Yes, "Game + Steam" and "Game + Epic" should be considered different products). 

In this case consumers receive _ 0_ _benefits_.
Consumers received false advertisement for all those days.
Consumers are forced to buy a different product.
Consumers are forced to install an inferior launcher, which has multiple security issues, some of them violate EU laws.
Consumers are forced to install fortnite, wasted space and if they can auto install fortnite, they can put something else in your PC, automatically.

This is so anti-consumer.

Why would somebody defend them?


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## rtwjunkie (Feb 17, 2019)

Really? I don’t know about you, but I don’t play “Steam.” I play games, wherever the game is I want to play, because I’m all about gaming.

Was it a bad move by Deep Silver? Sure it is.  It doesn’t change my desire to play the GAME.


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## GoldenX (Feb 17, 2019)

Fanboys will be fanboys.
Games were better when there were no stupid launchers. I don't need an internet connection, an account, and a resident program, to play a single player game.


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## xenocide (Feb 17, 2019)

rtwjunkie said:


> Um, when did GOG become a reseller?  As far as I know, all games for GOG are specific to the platform.
> 
> Developers actually have to do a little work to make games for GOG, which is why even new titles usually take a little while.  I have also never seen GOG sell keys for another site.



I've never used their site, but I was under the impression most games bought there were DRM-free, but they expanded to newer games a few years back including some that could be activated on Steam.  If I'm wrong then so be it, but the point still stands even disregarding a single point of sale.


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## yotano211 (Feb 17, 2019)

This world has gotten so pity that they will bomb a perfectly good game once people don't get there way. No wonder I bought a sailboat and will be leaving the US within 6 months to circumnavigate the world. 
The PC community always gets a mad rep for stunts like this. I didnt get the game because out of my price range and I dont pre-order games, I'll wait until it hits $25 and under.


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## king of swag187 (Feb 17, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> This is total horseshit.  This is nothing more than a bunch of children having a temper tantrum.  I don't quite remember this level of vitriol to Rockstar about RDR2, at least the review bombing.  I would like to see many, many, more games do this.  Just for spite now.
> 
> Children.  Grow up.


hem hem

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/am18zn


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## John Naylor (Feb 17, 2019)

If it ain't GoG'd, I'm not playing


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## RoutedScripter (Feb 17, 2019)

So yeah all the stuff we talked about in the previous threads, and now, it all comes down to this that no matter how objectively unfair the reviewbombs are (there is no other venue for them to voice opinion, putting bad review is a relief mechanism for the pissed-off steam users and works as a punishment, it's the industry's fault as well that there aren't more types of feedback venues for different purposes) the damage has been done and in exchange for SUPPOSABLY maximized profits the publisher will have to deal with substantial negativity in almost all the comments/responses of the future promotional content, a totally tarnished review scoring that is now completely invalid with so many rogue parameters, and a totally demoralized development team, even if the RAW developers weren't part of any consideration towards the decision or whatever, they see this happening and deep down it is demoralizing and negative even if they themself's don't notice it as it may work on a subconscious subtle level for some, others like the one who went public has been greately affected and probably will be affecting life for some time, remember RAW developers don't get satisfaction only from money like financial zombies do, they get it from seeing satisfied customers, they're seing a shitstorm taking place, even if all is invalid and they "ignore it", yes, we suppose to ignore the invalid bad reviews, but the point is here, psychological damage has already been done.

This has irrepairably tainted the reputation of the game in the public view for those who haven't got the full story, individually and technically you can totally disonnect from the internet and enjoy the game without zero influence from the review bombing but the side effect will still be there in the back of everyone's mind playing it who were tuned into this debacle or the ones who never wanted EPIC Launcher and were forced to use it.

This is probably one of the most stupid decisions ever for a publisher, complete and utter garbage. Don't they know what the internet is, don't they know there's more children on the internet every day than the day before?

As I said before (past threads), it's all tradeoffs, if the publisher did investigate and test all the scenarios and odds, they might have come to a conclusion that financial gain from this decision would be more worth than the pissed of hoardes as well as the development team to some extent, you just have to be a piece of crap greedy dirtbag to do actually do this in practice.


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## Camm (Feb 17, 2019)

I dislike the decision (because as a consumer this isn't competition, but exclusivity bullshit) but don't get some of the childishness around it.

Just wait a year and grab it from Steam, or go sailing in a week (and buy it in a year you scallywag).


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## Super XP (Feb 17, 2019)

king of swag187 said:


> hem hem
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/am18zn


I wonder how much EPIC paid off OMNI. Hmmm

Here is why Epic Games Launcher is better than Steam by Omni *equals complete nonsense. *
Lets put this once again into perspective. Who's better Steam or Epic? This is an easy one. 

*




*

And yes I am all for COMPETITION, so let people choose if they want to use STEAM or EPIC Game Launching Software. The very fact they are force feeding this Epic launcher and taking METRO Exodus Exclusive is anything but competition. It's anti-consumerism, anti-pc gaming, anti-choice etc., The worse part of all this nonsense drama is the fact the Developers will unnecessarily suffer the most due to poor sales. All while the Publishers will look like a bunch of Μαρόνες, Ίδιοι, ψεύτικες etc.,


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## newtekie1 (Feb 17, 2019)

rtwjunkie said:


> Really? I don’t know about you, but I don’t play “Steam.” I play games, wherever the game is I want to play, because I’m all about gaming.
> 
> Was it a bad move by Deep Silver? Sure it is.  It doesn’t change my desire to play the GAME.



Honestly, the benefits of Steam are part of the product and part of my buying decisions. And it isn't just the multiplayer stuff, I don't really even play multiplayer.  Just the cloud save integration alone is a benefit of steam that is part of the product that I'm buying when I buy a game, I check to make sure the game uses it before I buy it.

And, like I've said before, what should happen is they should have released the game on multiple platforms and let the consumers decide which to buy it on.  If they wanted Epic to be the main platform, make it appealing to the consumers.  Price the game 10% cheaper on Epic, or 10% more expensive on all the other platforms.  If people really want to use Steam, and enjoy the benefits that Steam provides, they can pay a little more for the game.  Personally, cloud saves alone are worth ~$6 more for the game.  But on top of that, the family sharing and steam workshop are also worth the few extra bucks.


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## rtwjunkie (Feb 17, 2019)

Super XP said:


> I wonder how much EPIC paid off OMNI. Hmmm
> 
> Here is why Epic Games Launcher is better than Steam by Omni *equals complete nonsense. *
> Lets put this once again into perspective. Who's better Steam or Epic? This is an easy one.
> ...


Do they both allow me to play games? Yes. Good enough for me.


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## Super XP (Feb 17, 2019)

rtwjunkie said:


> Do they both allow me to play games? Yes. Good enough for me.


What guarantee do you have that this store front will be around in a year or two? lol, none


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## newtekie1 (Feb 17, 2019)

rtwjunkie said:


> Do they both allow me to play games? Yes. Good enough for me.



Well, sort of...

On Epic, if you're banned from any game, for any reason, you're entire account is banned and you lose all your games.  So if you, for instance, play Fortnite with a VPN program running(not connected, just running in the system tray) you get banned from Fortnite and lose all the games connected to your Epic account.

So, Epic lets you play your games*

_*Until they decide not to._


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## Super XP (Feb 17, 2019)

newtekie1 said:


> Well, sort of...
> 
> On Epic, if you're banned from any game, for any reason, you're entire account is banned and you lose all your games.  So if you, for instance, play Fortnite with a VPN program running(not connected, just running in the system tray) you get banned from Fortnite and lose all the games connected to your Epic account.
> 
> ...


People don't understand the gravity of the situation unfortunately. This is why the majority will wait for a STEAM LAUNCH Version, and there's a reason for that. You just stated one of them, among any more. Epic has no right to Ban anybody for using VPN. This is why it's important for people to speak with there wallets. Do not support such launchers. Period.


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## rtwjunkie (Feb 18, 2019)

Super XP said:


> What guarantee do you have that this store front will be around in a year or two? lol, none


Lmao!! People said the same thing about Steam.  Or do you not remember when they only had a few games?

And...so what? It doesn’t matter.  I can get my games elsewhere if one of the largest game companies (Epic) goes under.  More than likely tho, your licenses won’t disappear, just like the other game clients.  Much ado about nothing.

Like I said, I’m a gamer. I don’t play “Steam”. I play games, on whatever client they are offered.  Uplay, Steam, Origin, Epic.  GOG is the only one that gets priority for any game that is also offered DRM free. Otherwise, the others all get my business for the games I want to play. 

I don’t use a VPN, I don’t play multiplayer or co-op, I am purely single player, and all have the same feature I want: they sell games I want to play.

People like you are going into hysterics over something that really doesn’t matter in the big game of life.


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## Super XP (Feb 18, 2019)

rtwjunkie said:


> Lmao!! People said the same thing about Steam.  Or do you not remember when they only had a few games?
> 
> And...so what? It doesn’t matter.  I can get my games elsewhere if one of the largest game companies (Epic) goes under.  More than likely tho, your licenses won’t disappear, just like the other game clients.  Much ado about nothing.
> 
> ...


I am far from hysterics lol, I simply would like a choice as to how to purchase the game. Enjoy your epic launcher, and I will enjoy Metro Exodus once it arrives on Steam. This may happen sooner all based on the low volume of sales they are experiencing.


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## rtwjunkie (Feb 18, 2019)

Like I said, I don’t have a preference for Epic. It’s where a game I want is sold, period.  And for the record, there are dozens, maybe even scores of games that can only be purchased on one of the gaming clients.  They each have them.


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## Crackong (Feb 18, 2019)

rtwjunkie said:


> Like I said, I’m a gamer. I don’t play “Steam”. I play games, on whatever client they are offered.



Well said.
So, what if, 
the publisher of your favorite long awaited game decided all digital platforms are too greedy on their cuts,
they dropped them all, all "pre-order" gets refunded and forces you to buy physical DVD copies and has to use good old "Disc checking" DRM.
They claimed this gives them "MOAR MONEY" to develop future games.

Oh btw all these happens 2 weeks before the game launch.

As you said, you play the game, not the platform.
It should be fine for you, right ?


----------



## rtwjunkie (Feb 18, 2019)

Crackong said:


> Well said.
> So, what if,
> the publisher of your favorite long awaited game decided all digital platforms are too greedy on their cuts,
> they dropped them all, all "pre-order" gets refunded and forces you to buy physical DVD copies and has to use good old "Disc checking" DRM.
> ...


I would buy the game in the form offered.  Truth be told tho, it’s a fantastical situation, since W10 has specifically blocked most disc based drm from occurring.  

Also, the cancelled pre-orders is extreme, you are trying to see how that affects my answer. No pre orders were cancelled with Exodus though.


----------



## Crackong (Feb 18, 2019)

rtwjunkie said:


> I would buy the game in the form offered.  Truth be told tho, it’s a fantastical situation, since W10 has specifically blocked most disc based drm from occurring.
> 
> Also, the cancelled pre-orders is extreme, you are trying to see how that affects my answer. No pre orders were cancelled with Exodus though.



Just a "what if", of cause it will be a little bit extreme.
Still buying it , huh ?
What a "True Gamer".
For me, as a consumer, I cannot tolerate such a bad move.


----------



## newtekie1 (Feb 18, 2019)

rtwjunkie said:


> Lmao!! People said the same thing about Steam.  Or do you not remember when they only had a few games?
> 
> And...so what? It doesn’t matter.  I can get my games elsewhere if one of the largest game companies (Epic) goes under.  More than likely tho, your licenses won’t disappear, just like the other game clients.  Much ado about nothing.
> 
> ...



Again, there are benefits to steam that directly affect my enjoyment of the games I play, so it most definitely is part of the product that is "the game I'm buying".  It doesn't have to be multiplayer benefits either, because it isn't with me, because I don't play multiplayer.

And your VPN comment shows exactly how little grasp you have on the situation at hand.  The fact that Epic would literally give entire account bans(because that is the only method of bans they have) because someone has a VPN client running in the background shows there is more a major problem with their platform that you should be concerned about.  Just the fact that they give entire account bans, so you can't play any of the games you paid for, is a major issue.  The fact that they are doing it just because you have software installed on your system that they don't like, is another big red flag issue.  What happens when they decide OSD software, like MSI Afterburner, is a bannable offense and ban your account for that?  To defend such behavior, especially with such a weak defence as "it doesn't affect me so you shouldn't be mad about it and no one should be worried about it" is laughable.


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## Super XP (Feb 18, 2019)

newtekie1 said:


> Again, there are benefits to steam that directly affect my enjoyment of the games I play, so it most definitely is part of the product that is "the game I'm buying".  It doesn't have to be multiplayer benefits either, because it isn't with me, because I don't play multiplayer.
> 
> And your VPN comment shows exactly how little grasp you have on the situation at hand.  The fact that Epic would literally give entire account bans(because that is the only method of bans they have) because someone has a VPN client running in the background shows there is more a major problem with their platform that you should be concerned about.  Just the fact that they give entire account bans, so you can't play any of the games you paid for, is a major issue.  The fact that they are doing it just because you have software installed on your system that they don't like, is another big red flag issue.  What happens when they decide OSD software, like MSI Afterburner, is a bannable offense and ban your account for that?  To defend such behavior, especially with such a weak defence as "it doesn't affect me so you shouldn't be mad about it and no one should be worried about it" is laughable.


Couldn't have said it any better.


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## Crackong (Feb 18, 2019)

newtekie1 said:


> The fact that Epic would literally give entire account bans because someone has a VPN client running in the background



Please understand.
Since Epic is Tencent, and Tencent is a company in People's Republic of China, they have to comply those local laws.
In PRC, Using VPN to access the global internet is illegal. 
xD


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## Super XP (Feb 18, 2019)

Crackong said:


> Please understand.
> Since Epic is Tencent, and Tencent is a company in People's Republic of China, they have to comply those local laws.
> In PRC, Using VPN to access the global internet is illegal.
> xD


Welcome to North America,  I can care less what THEY constitute as illegal or not. Banning people because they use a VPN is ludicrous and none of there BLOODY BUSINESS.


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## rtwjunkie (Feb 18, 2019)

Sigh, Tencent is not even a majority shareholder in Epic.  So Epic is not Tencent.

And yes @Crackong I am a true gamer, because I don’t let the store a game comes from deny me to play a game I want to play.  The only person that not buying the game on those priinciples it hurts is me.

Honestly, it must be great to be so young as you guys and still so full of black or white ideals that you get all righteously upset over what constitutes a minor thing in this world. 

Life is too short to not enjoy it.


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## Crackong (Feb 18, 2019)

rtwjunkie said:


> Sigh, Tencent is not even a majority shareholder in Epic.  So Epic is not Tencent.
> 
> And yes @Crackong I am a true gamer, because I don’t let the store a game comes from deny me to play a game I want to play.  The only person that not buying the game on those priinciples it hurts is me.
> 
> ...



You mean, with >40% of total share, Tencent definitely had no influence on Epic, it must be Tim Sweeney's one man decision to ban VPN user account with ALL the games in it ?

Speaking of black and white, there is no black and white.
In this case consumer receives 0 benefits , only negative impacts on their user experience.
Why would a consumer support this?


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## radekr (Feb 18, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> We are assuming that it was not Steam that initiated it.  What if Steam said: 'We are removing your game from our store starting immediately if you don't comply with our demands.'  Why are we assuming that Steam is the victim?



I think that it was all pretty much explained already by both sides. 
4A clearly said that it was their publisher's decision and that they did not liked it also. 
Steam stated that "Metro Exodus will be discontinued on Steam due to a publisher decision to make the game exclusive to another PC store.".

What is it not to undarstand here?

imo Epic pretty much used the "Pay2Win" method here. It's not competition, in case You're wondering...


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## king of swag187 (Feb 18, 2019)

Super XP said:


> I wonder how much EPIC paid off OMNI. Hmmm
> 
> Here is why Epic Games Launcher is better than Steam by Omni *equals complete nonsense. *
> Lets put this once again into perspective. Who's better Steam or Epic? This is an easy one.
> ...


you do realize that entite post was satire righto?


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## Super XP (Feb 18, 2019)

king of swag187 said:


> you do realize that entite post was satire righto?


Yes was just adding more info to the fun


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## Vayra86 (Feb 18, 2019)

HD64G said:


> The tense is more than it should be for something that is supposed to entertain the people (gaming is an entertainmnent after all, apart from the people that make money of it). That worries me. In the recent years people take gaming much more seriously than they should. And that shows that they don't care as much for real life matters. Because if they did, they wouldn't spend themselves into hating persons or companies related to gaming matters.



I think there is a healthy dose of politics involved. Tencent = China = the big threat to the West if you want to believe recent rhetoric. And the general idea with the internet now is that we have a few _billion_ mouths that can all have their say on the matter. You put any group of random individuals together in a room with just this subject to talk about and things may fly off the handle quickly. Its just the internet, its mainstream now and it shows. When I enter the real world, things really aren't all that bad or hostile, because people can be held accountable for what they say.


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