# Replace 4 wire cable with cat5?



## satindemon4u (Feb 1, 2016)

Hey guys. So a buddy of mine has internet that is running off of the old 4 wire (quad) cable. The cable is outside, connected to a box. It is only the red and green wire that are connected. The cable then leads inside and connects to a jack. From the jack, his modem is plugged in.

Well, we wanted to give him a bit of an upgrade. After thinking on it I thought it would be as easy as connecting the blue and blue/white cable to the box and then routing the terminated end of the Ethernet cable to the modem and plugging it in. Apparently not because that didn't work.

What exactly am I missing here? I have never performed this little upgrade but I figured it would be pretty simple and so far, not so much.

The modem is a Netgear B90-755044


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## R-T-B (Feb 1, 2016)

Are you talking phone cabling?  The two use completely different protocols.


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## Kursah (Feb 1, 2016)

You can use CAT 5 in-place if you want, but you won't gain anything unless your current cable is in really bad shape. With 4 pair you could run 4 lines. DSL/Analogue/Copper lines in this situation use 2 wires at the point of connections you're interfacing with.

You can even use RJ45 sockets for RJ11 ends, just make sure you terminate the same pair of wires to the center two (usually, otherwise the next pin on each side of the center pair to create the next pair if that makes sense...) to make a signal. In this instance it makes sense to use the color + same color striped as a dedicated pair for the termination.

Can you explain in more detail how you terminated? What wires did you use on the signal end @ the box and how did you terminate the other end of the wire. Did you use the correct pins? Sometimes DSL modems are finicky to polarity, so switch the wires around might be worth a shot. It should be pretty straight forward if you used the blue pair (blu + blu/wh).

I guess here the more info you provide the better. I usually never used CAT5 for this kind of application unless adapting an analogue device to a VOIP system using a Cisco ATA or similar. But really here it shouldn't matter, you have two wires on one end and those need to be the same wires you use at the other end.


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## FordGT90Concept (Feb 1, 2016)

All of my phone cables are CAT6 FTP.  All are wired at the hub but I only use white/blue and blue because they have the most twists per feet.  

This image should be handy:





Blue -> Red
Blue/White -> Green


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## satindemon4u (Feb 1, 2016)

Kursah said:


> You can use CAT 5 in-place if you want, but you won't gain anything unless your current cable is in really bad shape. With 4 pair you could run 4 lines. DSL/Analogue/Copper lines in this situation use 2 wires at the point of connections you're interfacing with.
> 
> You can even use RJ45 sockets for RJ11 ends, just make sure you terminate the same pair of wires to the center two (usually, otherwise the next pin on each side of the center pair to create the next pair if that makes sense...) to make a signal. In this instance it makes sense to use the color + same color striped as a dedicated pair for the termination.
> 
> ...



The cable we are replacing (or would like to) was for whatever reason cut and then sort of spliced in 3 different locations. So, it would be nice just to run a new, in better shape cable. So we figured, if we have to run a new cable why not use the cat5 we already had?

As far as the termination goes. The cat5 cable was already terminated on both ends, from the factory. We simply cut one end off and I used the blue/white and blue wires. I used those because I found a little diagram sort of picture online that showed to use those. The other end of the cat5 cable we did nothing with. I didn't think we had to? I figured we could just hook it right into the modem. Below is a picture of the modem. As you can see, it has a DSL port and the first port for ethernet is labeled (although hard to see in the picture) as "Eth1/Uplink"


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## R-T-B (Feb 1, 2016)

Apparently I am out of my element.  Signing off for those who know this stuff to take over.


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## FordGT90Concept (Feb 1, 2016)

Are you sure it's an ADSL gateway/router or is it just a router?  If you tried red and green on the two center pins and it didn't work...it could be wired wrong on the other end...or a data cable rather than phone.


How did you connect red -> blue and green -> blue/white?  Is is soldered or twisted together and covered?  If the latter, how much cable is twisted?


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## taz420nj (Feb 1, 2016)

An ethernet cable won't fit into the DSL port.  The DSL port should be a regular RJ-11/14 phone jack.  If you plugged the cable into the E1/Uplink port unplug it immediately before the phone rings or else the AC ring voltage will destroy the port if its gigabit.

Edit: BTW, the pic you posted is NOT of the B90-755044, it is a different model which is just a router.  The B90-755044 is in fact a DSL modem/router, and will not have an RJ45 DSL port.

This is the 
B90-755044:


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## taz420nj (Feb 1, 2016)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Are you sure it's an ADSL gateway/router or is it just a router?  If you tried red and green on the two center pins and it didn't work...it could be wired wrong on the other end...or a data cable rather than phone.
> 
> 
> How did you connect red -> blue and green -> blue/white?  Is is soldered or twisted together and covered?  If the latter, how much cable is twisted?



Cat5 is Cat5.  Blue/white is always wired to pins 4 and 5 (POTS Line 1).  From what he described he didn't splice or connect any wires, he just connected the blue/white to the red/green screws on the NID.  But I think he's got the other end plugged into the uplink port instead of the DSL port based on him saying he just cut one end off a pre-made ethernet cord and plugged the other end right into the modem.


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## taz420nj (Feb 1, 2016)

Kursah said:


> I guess here the more info you provide the better. I usually never used CAT5 for this kind of application unless adapting an analogue device to a VOIP system using a Cisco ATA or similar. But really here it shouldn't matter, you have two wires on one end and those need to be the same wires you use at the other end.



I never use Cat3 for POTS phone installs, always Cat5.  It's much better for phone and especially DSL and multi-line installs because of the twisted pair - Cat5 rejects crosstalk between the pairs far better than Cat3 does.


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## satindemon4u (Feb 1, 2016)

taz420nj said:


> Cat5 is Cat5.  Blue/white is always wired to pins 4 and 5 (POTS Line 1).  From what he described he didn't splice or connect any wires, he just connected the blue/white to the red/green screws on the NID.  But I think he's got the other end plugged into the uplink port instead of the DSL port based on him saying he just cut one end off a pre-made ethernet cord and plugged the other end right into the modem.




Bingo! See, my thought process was all screwed up. The more I thought about it, the more incorrect it sounded. So basically, I thought "Oh, this modem has the option for either DSL or standard Ethernet." So what I tried doing was plugging into that uplink spot and of course, got nothing.

So then, what exactly do I need to do? Does he need a different modem? Do I need to cut the other end off the cat5 cable and re-terminate it in a different way?


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## taz420nj (Feb 1, 2016)

satindemon4u said:


> Bingo! See, my thought process was all screwed up. The more I thought about it, the more incorrect it sounded. So basically, I thought "Oh, this modem has the option for either DSL or standard Ethernet." So what I tried doing was plugging into that uplink spot and of course, got nothing.
> 
> So then, what exactly do I need to do? Does he need a different modem? *Do I need to cut the other end off the cat5 cable and re-terminate it in a different way?*



Yeah basically..  It needs to end in a standard phone plug.  The easiest way since you probably don't have an RJ crimper would be to cut it off near where it comes out of the wall and install a standard phone jack.  It doesn't need to be a punchdown/Keystone style, it can be one of these:






or these:






Just wire it the exact same way as the other end (blue to red, white to green) and mount it to the wall.  Then simply use a regular line cord to connect from there to the DSL port.






Most people don't realize that DSL isn't a direct "network" connection like fiber and cable are.  It is pretty much just like an old dial up screech modem, except it doesn't tie up the phone line..  So it needs to go through the modem itself first, which in most cases also has a router, ethernet switch, and wifi built in.


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## satindemon4u (Feb 1, 2016)

taz420nj said:


> Yeah basically..  It needs to end in a standard phone plug.  The easiest way since you probably don't have an RJ crimper would be to cut it off near where it comes out of the wall and install a standard phone jack.  It doesn't need to be a punchdown/Keystone style, it can be one of these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Perfect. One of those is already mounted to the wall from the previous installation. So, I will just rematch wires colors inside of there and then like you said, use a standard phone line to connect to the modem? Will he see any speed or reliability increase?


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## taz420nj (Feb 1, 2016)

satindemon4u said:


> Perfect. One of those is already mounted to the wall from the previous installation. So, I will just rematch wires colors inside of there and then like you said, use a standard phone line to connect to the modem? Will he see any speed or reliability increase?



Definitely maybe..  As @Kursah said it will only make a difference if the original line had issues.  Since you say it was cut into and spliced a couple times, it's possible, since splices can induce interference/static, especially if they are poorly made and/or near electrical cables..  If anything it should help with the reliability, having less disconnects/redials while in use.  If the speed he was getting was significantly less than advertised it MIGHT help there too if it was caused by the dirty line  - it will not help with low speeds that are due to high distance between the house and the TelCo switching station.


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## Ahhzz (Feb 1, 2016)

satindemon4u said:


> Perfect. One of those is already mounted to the wall from the previous installation. So, I will just rematch wires colors inside of there and then like you said, use a standard phone line to connect to the modem? Will he see any speed or reliability increase?


Gonna jump in late to the dance, and say with the _possible_ exception of less static if you are making sure you have a much better connection, no, he will not see any speed increase. _Maybe, *maybe*, _a little reliability, but if he's not getting disconnected at random from the internet then, no, not that either. You'll just have the peace of mind knowing that you only have one connection on one wire between the two points.


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## satindemon4u (Feb 1, 2016)

And honestly I think that may be good enough for him. The service he has is only 2 megs and he said he usually pulls about 1, on a good day lol. But what he really hated was how the old wire was just sagging and like I said, was cut and spliced 3 or 4 different times.


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## FordGT90Concept (Feb 1, 2016)

satindemon4u said:


> And honestly I think that may be good enough for him. The service he has is only 2 megs and he said he usually pulls about 1, on a good day lol. But what he really hated was how the old wire was just sagging and like I said, was cut and spliced 3 or 4 different times.


The wiring in my house was similar which is why I replaced it all.  Doing a direct run from the box to the DSL gateway will usually net you a few more dB signal strength.  I doubt it is enough to upgrade the performance.  After you get it all done, you'd have to call the ISP and have them check if there is enough strength to handle a higher rate.


Use the image I posted before to match the colors of wires in the RJ11/14 box.  Remember to put a zip tie around the cable (and make it tight) inside of the box to stop the cable from sliding in and out of the box.  You will not use the brown pair in the cable.


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## taz420nj (Feb 1, 2016)

FordGT90Concept said:


> You will not use the brown pair in the cable.



... He won't use the orange or green pairs either..  It's one line for DSL, he's only using the blue pair.


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## FordGT90Concept (Feb 1, 2016)

Still good practice to wire it all up even if you don't intend to use it.


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## RejZoR (Feb 2, 2016)

You can use CAT5 or even preferably CAT6 (due to enhanced interferrence shielding) for long range wiring of telephone signal. You'll have some unused pairs in the entire wire, but you'll be able to achieve higher, consistent speeds at longer ranges than with standard thin telephone wire.


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## satindemon4u (Feb 7, 2016)

Ended up getting it all installed and working nicely. He said speed is about the same as you guys mentioned, but reliability is much better.  success!


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## Ahhzz (Feb 8, 2016)

satindemon4u said:


> Ended up getting it all installed and working nicely. He said speed is about the same as you guys mentioned, but reliability is much better.  success!


Good to be hear


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## FordGT90Concept (Feb 8, 2016)

satindemon4u said:


> Ended up getting it all installed and working nicely. He said speed is about the same as you guys mentioned, but reliability is much better.  success!


ADSL speeds are set by the subscription.  Changing something on your end won't cause the subscription to change.  It wouldn't hurt to call the ISP, let them know the wiring was improved, and see if they can test the line for higher speeds (assuming the plan supports it).  I doubt they can increase it but if it was borderline before, they might be able to now.  Morale of the story is you have to call them--it's not something that happens automatically.


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## satindemon4u (Feb 8, 2016)

FordGT90Concept said:


> ADSL speeds are set by the subscription.  Changing something on your end won't cause the subscription to change.  It wouldn't hurt to call the ISP, let them know the wiring was improved, and see if they can test the line for higher speeds (assuming the plan supports it).  I doubt they can increase it but if it was borderline before, they might be able to now.  Morale of the story is you have to call them--it's not something that happens automatically.



I shall relay this info to him!


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## taz420nj (Feb 8, 2016)

FordGT90Concept said:


> ADSL speeds are set by the subscription.  Changing something on your end won't cause the subscription to change.  It wouldn't hurt to call the ISP, let them know the wiring was improved, and see if they can test the line for higher speeds (assuming the plan supports it).  I doubt they can increase it but if it was borderline before, they might be able to now.  Morale of the story is you have to call them--it's not something that happens automatically.


Of course the speeds are set by the subscription - but that's assuming he's getting within the ballpark of what he's paying for..  If he's paying for 5Mbps because that's what they say he should be able to get based on his distance from the exchange office, and he's only getting 2 due to the dirty line, it's entirely plausible that replacing the line would make a difference.


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## satindemon4u (Feb 8, 2016)

In his case if I am mistaken they are selling him 2 and he actually pulls about 1.


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## OneMoar (Feb 8, 2016)

ADSL speeds rely heavily on line quality crapy wiring and noise will destroy speeds
and yes changing settings on your end CAN affect speed e.g changing the bonding mode or enabling annex M
cat6 might not be heavy enough causing signal degradation
phone line is a heavier wire gauge and with ADSL site-wiring is everything


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## taz420nj (Feb 9, 2016)

OneMoar said:


> ADSL speeds rely heavily on line quality crapy wiring and noise will destroy speeds
> and yes changing settings on your end CAN affect speed e.g changing the bonding mode or enabling annex M
> cat6 might not be heavy enough causing signal degradation
> phone line is a heavier wire gauge and with ADSL site-wiring is everything



It's only 1-2gauge difference (Cat3 is 22AWG, Cat5 is 24AWG, and Cat6 is 23AWG) but that actually won't affect anything because we're talking about a high frequency signal - those actually ride on the outer 'skin' of the wire, not through it like power does.  The reason "phone wire" is larger gauge is to support the electrical ring and talk current that goes through it and combat voltage drop over long runs which can affect POTS (the actual drop cable from the pole to the NID is usually 18 or 20 gauge for this reason).  DSL doesn't use line power, so the wire gauge doesn't matter.


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