# Need to upgrade for more FPS



## StickySauce (Oct 20, 2018)

Hello, this is my first post on this site. Thank you in advance for taking a look at my setup and giving me advice on where to go.

I am Currently running and FX8350 at 4.4ghz, R9 270x and 8gb DDR3 @ stock clocking. I really only play IRacing and some World of Tanks both at 1080p @ 60hz My question is, what can I do do get a some more FPS out of my system? whether it be additional over clocking or hardware upgrade.

I'm running into issues under high load (a lot of vehicles in my view, cars crashing, tank blowing up, ect.) where my FPS is dropping a little under 50 and running around 60-70 normally with peaks around 130. I'm not looking for much but in need to stay above 60 because the screen tear is making it difficult to avoid wrecks and aim down the barrel.

My GPU is also over clocked about 5-7%

My build:
MSI 890FXA-GD65, AMD FX 8350 Black Edition with CoolerMaster GeminII S524 cooler, Ultra 750watt PSU, 8GB AMD Entertainment Series 1333 MHZ 9-9-9-24, Asus R9 270x DirectCUII Top 2GB, Samsung 850evo 128GB (Win 7 only) and 500gb, Corsair Carbide series 500r white


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## Vayra86 (Oct 20, 2018)

What is your budget? You would be looking at a complete system upgrade or getting nice second-hand deals on an Intel DDR3 (Haswell > newer) platform, plus a new GPU. Alternatively, a new quadcore i3 or Ryzen 4c8t + DDR4.

The balance of your current system is quite fine, if you upgrade GPU, you will also want to do the rest. Otherwise the performance win is simply not worth it.

Any GPU faster than a GTX 970~980 will probably be running into CPU bottlenecking.


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## Toothless (Oct 20, 2018)

I'd just get a GTX980 and call it good from there.


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## Vayra86 (Oct 20, 2018)

Toothless said:


> I'd just get a GTX980 and call it good from there.



I agree this is a possible route, but then I saw this, and given his current FPS, that will probably not improve a whole lot. The only thing he wins is being able to crank up settings.

It also highlights the benefit of going the (cheap?) Haswell route. He needs a board and a CPU, RAM can move with it.


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## cucker tarlson (Oct 20, 2018)

a used i5 + overclocking the ram would be the cheapest option.

ryzen does really well in wot too







what about a 1300x then ?


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## 27MaD (Oct 20, 2018)

Upgrade 2 16 GB of ram , get ur self a better GPU , buy at least an Ivy bridge I7.


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## StickySauce (Oct 20, 2018)

I'm not really looking to spend a whole lot if I can get away with it. I was looking to see if maybe adding ram, going to 4.7ghz or upgrading GPU would help increase fps. I also read that some of the newer GPUs need a Mobo with UEFI? Is this true?

Is there a better CPU I can upgrade too on this AM3+ 890 mb?


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## cucker tarlson (Oct 20, 2018)

you're cpu limited here, upgrading the gpu would do very little. nvidia cards work better under dx11 cpu limited scenario, but don't expect miracles. you need a cpu with a faster single core and faster memory as well.


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## StickySauce (Oct 20, 2018)

Vayta86, what's funny is my fps never drops that low on WOT. My settings are on high and FOV @110 and draw distance set way out. Do we know what card he is running?

Thank you all for the info. I was afaid it might be time for a new build. Just don't wanna spend the money. I guess I got a good life out of my PC. It was originally built in 2011 with a PhenomII 555 with 2 cores unlocked and OC'ed to 4.2ghz and a 9800gt. Upgraded the card in 14 and the CPU early last year. It's been a good run!


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## m&m's (Oct 20, 2018)

When your FPS dips, does your GPU usage also dips? If it does, then you're CPU (or memory bandwidth (Single Channel vs Dual)) limited and if it does not then you're GPU limited.


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## kastriot (Oct 20, 2018)

Tell me when you play @ 720p do you have same fps drops?


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## flmatter (Oct 20, 2018)

a R9 290 or even 380/390   plus 8gb more of ram for cheapest route. Also what are your game setting in WoT?  Have you tried what the game reccomends? or are you going custom?


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## xkm1948 (Oct 20, 2018)

I would upgrade completely at this point. FX series are just not cutting it. Get a new RyZen platform!


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## StickySauce (Oct 20, 2018)

m&m's said:


> When your FPS dips, does your GPU usage also dips? If it does, then you're CPU (or memory bandwidth (Single Channel vs Dual)) limited and if it does not then you're GPU limited.



CPU usage does not dip.



kastriot said:


> Tell me when you play @ 720p do you have same fps drops?



I will have to check, never tried that



flmatter said:


> a R9 290 or even 380/390   plus 8gb more of ram for cheapest route. Also what are your game setting in WoT?  Have you tried what the game reccomends? or are you going custom?



I'm on recommended with slightly increase FOV and draw distance



xkm1948 said:


> I would upgrade completely at this point. FX series are just not cutting it. Get a new RyZen platform!


But then I need new Mobo and ram. If I'm doing that I'll just build all new


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## flmatter (Oct 20, 2018)

a 290 or 380/390 + more ram will help.  If you are looking for cheapest route. The above mentions of building a new system will ring true if you want to play some of todays and next years newer games.

edit if you are in USA, craigslist you will find a decent card   i would avoid ebay


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## m&m's (Oct 20, 2018)

StickySauce said:


> CPU usage does not dip.


Irrelevant,* G*PU usage is what matters.


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## StickySauce (Oct 20, 2018)

Again. I really only play IRacing and WOT. No interest in playing much else. These two take up all my free time



m&m's said:


> Irrelevant,* G*PU usage is what matters.


Agreed, until your CPU is the bottleneck which I'm worried it will be if I bump my GPU to a 290 or 380-390


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## flmatter (Oct 20, 2018)

980    this is a good deal from one of our own. not  380/390 but a great card.


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## Zyll Goliat (Oct 20, 2018)

StickySauce said:


> Again. I really only play IRacing and WOT. No interest in playing much else. These two take up all my free time
> 
> 
> Agreed, until your CPU is the bottleneck which I'm worried it will be if I bump my GPU to a 290 or 380-390


This is the thing....Your FX is probably just fine until you get a bit better GPU I will say that you will experience maybe some minor loses of FPS with that R9 270x but as you did notice sometimes your minimal FPS are getting pretty low which is most likely that your CPU choke a bit GPU but as I said the FX should be mostly fine until this line of GPU´s for Nvidia GTX 780 TI and all above or for AMD R9 290 and above then you can expect more and more bottlenecking IF you playing games in 1080p.....


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## Vya Domus (Oct 20, 2018)

If you are not planning to get anything above a 1060/980 I'd say go for it.

I had a an FX 6300 with a 1060 and it worked just fine.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 20, 2018)

4.6/4.7 should be fairly easy, in this case a GPU upgrade would do wonders.


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## m&m's (Oct 20, 2018)

StickySauce said:


> Agreed, until your CPU is the bottleneck which I'm worried it will be if I bump my GPU to a 290 or 380-390


Thus why, I asked if your GPU usage dips (not CPU) when your FPS dips.



m&m's said:


> When your FPS dips, does your GPU usage also dips? If it does, then you're CPU (or memory bandwidth (Single Channel vs Dual)) limited and if it does not then you're GPU limited.



You can use GPU-Z, MSI Afterburner or similars to monitor your GPU usage.

You want to know if your CPU will bottleneck a better GPU then you need to know if it's the CPU or the GPU that is currently causings the frame dips.


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## Athlonite (Oct 21, 2018)

StickySauce said:


> 8GB AMD Entertainment Series 1333 MHZ 9-9-9-24, Asus R9 270x DirectCUII Top 2GB



That's the only two things I'd look at upgrading better GPU R9 290 8GB  and Faster Ram 8GB DDR1866 or 2400MHz and also up the clocks on the HT & North bridge to 2600MHz if it's not already that'll give you better through put and memory bandwidth


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## Candor (Oct 21, 2018)

I think around the RX 470 level would be the sweet spot, price for performance for your system.

They are pretty cheap now and would give you a significant boost in frame rate, and would go well with your FX-8350.


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## StickySauce (Oct 21, 2018)

m&m's said:


> You can use GPU-Z, MSI Afterburner or similars to monitor your GPU usage.
> 
> You want to know if your CPU will bottleneck a better GPU then you need to know if it's the CPU or the GPU that is currently causings the frame dips.



I m currently using CPUID and ASUS Afterburner to monitor usage and temps. I'm not really seeing a CPU dip and know for I fact I'm not getting GPU dips. The GPU seems to sit at 99% at all times in game with about 1800-1900MB vram usage and and about 4.5-5.2 GB Ram usage. CPU is at 90-98% usage on cores that are being used for the games.



Athlonite said:


> That's the only two things I'd look at upgrading better GPU R9 290 8GB  and Faster Ram 8GB DDR1866 or 2400MHz and also up the clocks on the HT & North bridge to 2600MHz if it's not already that'll give you better through put and memory bandwidth



Luckily DDR3 memory is not expensive at all anymore. But I'm going to try and OC the HT and NB first to see if that will help as well before I go spending more money on memory that I will only be using for another year or so.



Candor said:


> I think around the RX 470 level would be the sweet spot, price for performance for your system.



does the RX470 require a UEFI Mobo to operate? I ask because I've read a lot of theads from multiple sites about newer cards not supporting legacy BIOS. And I can't seem to find any real clear answer as to what newer cards work on legacy BIOS and what ones don't. I wish the MOBO manufacturers would include this kind of information on their compatibility list, but I can understand why they don't. Their boards are usually out of date by the time this sort of thing is an issue.


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## John Naylor (Oct 21, 2018)

Watch the boards over the next few weeks for folks upgrading their rigs and selling off MoBo / CPU / RAM combos.   And i5 or i7 CPU / Z series MoBo /  16GB of 2400 or above should be available for $300 or so ... after that a 1060/70  or 970/980should round that out nicely .


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 21, 2018)

Personally , coming from a similar system , i used a rx580 and vega 64 in it In racing games ie asseto corsa , project cars ,all dirts etc those GPU were bottle necked by the cpu but did give good performance in what I used them for so in part id recommend a rx 480/580 for you, however.

Less easily noticed is the fact that with a new platform (2600Xryzen) I find I am now miles ,miles better at racing , whereas i struggled in mp races before , I now stomp ass and i put it down to frame delivery time (and its latency) and the smoothness of frame delivery ,both of which has made this upgrade (whole pc platform)worthwhile Just for racing competitively.
Your choice though, i still have a crossfire rx480 pair in a fx 8350 sabertooth combo in my living room to push racing games on my 4k telly With room and pliability for my racing chair and wheel but it is not getting used anymore since the effects i notice make it now unusable ,whereas pre platform swap i would have swore it was fine.


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## StickySauce (Oct 21, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Personally , coming from a similar system , i used a rx580 and vega 64 in it In racing games ie asseto corsa , project cars ,all dirts etc those GPU were bottle necked by the cpu but did give good performance in what I used them for so in part id recommend a rx 480/580 for you, however.
> 
> Less easily noticed is the fact that with a new platform (2600Xryzen) I find I am now miles ,miles better at racing , whereas i struggled in mp races before , I now stomp ass and i put it down to frame delivery time (and its latency) and the smoothness of frame delivery ,both of which has made this upgrade (whole pc platform)worthwhile Just for racing competitively.
> Your choice though, i still have a crossfire rx480 pair in a fx 8350 sabertooth combo in my living room to push racing games on my 4k telly With room and pliability for my racing chair and wheel but it is not getting used anymore since the effects i notice make it now unusable ,whereas pre platform swap i would have swore it was fine.



I still have the question that remains unanswered though. Was your Sabertooth board a legacy BIOS or UEFI? I have a non-UEFI Mobo. If my Mobo will not support something that new, I may just build a new PC if I dont get the increased performance I want on the OC settings that Athlonite suggested. 

What I am starting to gather from all this input and information and research I have been doing, is that my 8350 may be my main issue and that a graphics update may only help marginally. Maybe another 10%-15%fps(just a guess)


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## m&m's (Oct 21, 2018)

StickySauce said:


> I m currently using CPUID and ASUS Afterburner to monitor usage and temps. I'm not really seeing a CPU dip and know for I fact I'm not getting GPU dips. The GPU seems to sit at 99% at all times in game with about 1800-1900MB vram usage and and about 4.5-5.2 GB Ram usage. CPU is at 90-98% usage on cores that are being used for the games.



You mention that your FPS dips below 50 when tanks explode, cars crash, etc when your FPS hovers around 60 to 70 when it does not happen.

When you FPS drops, 2 things can be happening.
1- Your CPU is bottlenecking (or single channel memory).
2- Your GPU is not powerful enough.

1- If your CPU is bottlenecking, it's usage will go up and the GPU load will go down (which means the GPU isn't used to it's full capacity which is why you have less FPS).
2- If your GPU is too weak it's usage will peak to 99%, the frames will go down and so will the CPU load. Why? Because less FPS there is, less load there is on the CPU.

You mention that both the CPU and the GPU usage do not budge when the frames go down.
The only explanation that I can think that could be causing this is that the CPU load goes up when there are explosions but because the FPS go down the CPU load stays the same.

Anyway, if your CPU usage varies between 90-98% and your GPU usage stays @99%. It means that your CPU is already pretty much being maxed out by your current GPU.
Buying a better GPU would probably not increase your FPS by much unless you find settings in game which could lower the CPU strain (shadows for example are often causing a lot of strain on CPUs).


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## Candor (Oct 22, 2018)

The RX 470 doesn't require a UEFI motherboard and your power supply is beefy enough. Go get one! Then you can sell your R9 270X.


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## cucker tarlson (Oct 22, 2018)

I'm in favor of upgrading both.
Good point made by MrK about frame delivery smoothness and latency, it's something some people swear is fine before they actually can see it running on a better system.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 22, 2018)

Candor said:


> The RX 470 doesn't require a UEFI motherboard and your power supply is beefy enough. Go get one! Then you can sell your R9 270X.



Take caution, there were 270s and 250Xs that do, so even 470s could be a crapshoot.


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## Mussels (Oct 22, 2018)

The FX chips are pretty average, getting a second hand i5 and board and re-using your ram would get you considerable gains - with a better GPU being the next needed upgrade.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 22, 2018)

Mussels said:


> The FX chips are pretty average, getting a second hand i5 and board and re-using your ram would get you considerable gains - with a better GPU being the next needed upgrade.



In rhat case he might as well go Ryzen


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## cucker tarlson (Oct 22, 2018)

Mussels said:


> The FX chips are pretty average, getting a second hand i5 and board and re-using your ram would get you considerable gains - with a better GPU being the next needed upgrade.


I'd favour a 4c/8t ryzen with ddr4 over a 4c/4t K-version of i5 with ddr3. But 6c/12t would be the best choice for him. 4c/8t Ryzens just don't deliver that good performance, maybe due to the fact that's it's just 2 cores in each ccx and they have to communicate thorugh IF with the other two. 3/4 core ccx ryzens really pick up the pace.

If you have money then upgrade both the cpu and gpu, but if that means you have to cut corners then just focus on cpu first, get a 2600(x) and 3000 CL14/15 RAM. If 1700X is avaiable at a reduced price in your country it's an even better option.


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## Vayra86 (Oct 22, 2018)

Both routes are viable I think, the cost aspect will decide what is best for OP


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## StickySauce (Oct 26, 2018)

Thank you everyone for your advice and support. 

Ended up getting a Asus R9 380 strix 4gb for $209 shipped from Newegg. OC'ed the FX8350 to 4.5 GHz, NB to 2400, HT to 2600, timings down to 7-8-7-22 @ 1333, and GPU @ stock clocking. Getting 150+ fps consistent with high loads hitting 125 fps. Have not played any WOT yet. Completely changed my gaming experience!

Gonna try and tweak it a little more and get the CPU to 4.6 and NB to 2600. I can do it with a little bit of tweaking I think. I didn't spend to much time on the overclock, maybe an hour. Then stress tested with prime95 for 2 hours with no issues. CPU got to 57 celcius and the NB got to 55 everything else stayed below 47.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 26, 2018)

StickySauce said:


> Thank you everyone for your advice and support.
> 
> Ended up getting a Asus R9 380 strix 4gb for $209 shipped from Newegg. OC'ed the FX8350 to 4.5 GHz, NB to 2400, HT to 2600, timings down to 7-8-7-22 @ 1333, and GPU @ stock clocking. Getting 150+ fps consistent with high loads hitting 125 fps. Have not played any WOT yet. Completely changed my gaming experience!
> 
> Gonna try and tweak it a little more and get the CPU to 4.6 and NB to 2600. I can do it with a little bit of tweaking I think. I didn't spend to much time on the overclock, maybe an hour. Then stress tested with prime95 for 2 hours with no issues. CPU got to 57 celcius and the NB got to 55 everything else stayed below 47.



4.5GHz is easy with the 8350, 4.7 too, it is 4.9-5.2 thats a challenge.

You got a Tonga Refresh card, so thats good.


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## king of swag187 (Oct 26, 2018)

StickySauce said:


> Thank you everyone for your advice and support.
> 
> Ended up getting a Asus R9 380 strix 4gb for $209 shipped from Newegg. OC'ed the FX8350 to 4.5 GHz, NB to 2400, HT to 2600, timings down to 7-8-7-22 @ 1333, and GPU @ stock clocking. Getting 150+ fps consistent with high loads hitting 125 fps. Have not played any WOT yet. Completely changed my gaming experience!
> 
> Gonna try and tweak it a little more and get the CPU to 4.6 and NB to 2600. I can do it with a little bit of tweaking I think. I didn't spend to much time on the overclock, maybe an hour. Then stress tested with prime95 for 2 hours with no issues. CPU got to 57 celcius and the NB got to 55 everything else stayed below 47.


An R9 380 for $209? Are you joking? You could have boughten it for half that price used, or hell even gotten a new RX 570 less.
And that FX is abominable, getting easily beaten by an i5 3570K, although it should be fine for your purposes


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 26, 2018)

king of swag187 said:


> An R9 380 for $209? Are you joking? You could have boughten it for half that price used, or hell even gotten a new RX 570 less.
> And that FX is abominable, getting easily beaten by an i5 3570K, although it should be fine for your purposes



Dude give it a rest. He is happy with what he has.

I have an 8350 with 290 myself.


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## StickySauce (Oct 26, 2018)

king of swag187 said:


> An R9 380 for $209? Are you joking? You could have boughten it for half that price used, or hell even gotten a new RX 570 less.
> And that FX is abominable, getting easily beaten by an i5 3570K, although it should be fine for your purposes



I just hate buy used cards. Been there, done that, been screwed. I only buy new. I've never had a used deal go good. So I'm very sceptical. And my MOBO will not support the RX cards from everything I've read. And it was the only question nobody answered on hear when I asked. So I didn't want to take a chance.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 26, 2018)

StickySauce said:


> I just hate buy used cards. Been there, done that, been screwed. I only buy new. I've never had a used deal go good. So I'm very sceptical. And my MOBO will not support the RX cards from everything I've read. And it was the only question nobody answered on hear when I asked. So I didn't want to take a chance.



Update your gpu in system specs too


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## StickySauce (Oct 26, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> Update your gpu in system specs too


Thank you! Done. 


I appreciate everyone's help! This has been a wonderful experience!


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## nothappy (Oct 26, 2018)

I see, its quite hectic and you will find people with good ideas but might not be the best for your taste.
from what I see you got your basics and balance in order, and all you want is just a small increase to future proof.  When I  it really make saw the thread name of "more FPS" it makes you sound like an enthusiast rather than a mild mannered citizen of the master race.

The guys who are ask/tell/suggest -ing you to go haswell or newer are actually thinking that your specs are dated, and to ensure FPS (enthusiast in mind) then you should go balls to the wall and upgrade (especially when now we know you're not the second hand parts guy).

I do the usual how do I see my rig in 3 years time, right now my haswell is worth something so I can sell and buy newer things. But your FX 8350 is quite dated in our minds and the price will be low if you want to trade up. Your R9 200 series is also dated cause in my mind the AMD R9 300 series are the border betweeen still ok and ye olde parts beware.

If the Mobo Doesn't accept any RX series, try contacting MSI and ask for a BIOS update. I remembered My first build of MSI K9A Platinum with PCI-e 1.1 slot, Bought me a 5770 with great personal expense and distraught due to the mobo not working with it (5770 requires PICI-e 2.0). I thought it was the PSU, and traded up 2 times (Corsair VS 450-Corsair VS 650-Corsair TX 850), I didn't know the problem was my bios and slot, and it broke me everytime my PC just wont POST. My friend asked me to write MSI a letter, sent the email in the morning got my reply in the afternoon with a BIOS update, and I never forget to check BIOS updates ever since. 

I got an ultrawide monitor, cheap one with 2560x1080 25 inches of fun, I get to see half a Dota lane and a larger field of view in CS-GO. It gave me the edge to get the best results my skills can produce, but that resolution comes at a price.

In the end, please decide what you want to do but get the whole story and options before execution, I want My money to get me the best and I think I got it, In FUN we TRUST!


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 26, 2018)

Meh, haswell is dated too, he is happy with what he has so just leave it at that.


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## king of swag187 (Oct 26, 2018)

StickySauce said:


> I just hate buy used cards. Been there, done that, been screwed. I only buy new. I've never had a used deal go good. So I'm very sceptical. And my MOBO will not support the RX cards from everything I've read. And it was the only question nobody answered on hear when I asked. So I didn't want to take a chance.


I feel you, but you wasted so much money. You could have boughten a 1050 or 1060, or just upgraded to a better platform than AM3+


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 26, 2018)

king of swag187 said:


> I feel you, but you wasted so much money. You could have boughten a 1050 or 1060, or just upgraded to a better platform than AM3+



There is nothing wrong with what he has.

He has made is decision already, leave him alone.


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## king of swag187 (Oct 26, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> There is nothing wrong with what he has.
> 
> He has made is decision already, leave him alone.


You're completely right, and I'm not criticizing his decision, but the way he bought it, which was completely moronic. That is final


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## Konceptz (Oct 26, 2018)

StickySauce said:


> I'm not really looking to spend a whole lot if I can get away with it. I was looking to see if maybe adding ram, going to 4.7ghz or upgrading GPU would help increase fps. I also read that some of the newer GPUs need a Mobo with UEFI? Is this true?
> 
> Is there a better CPU I can upgrade too on this AM3+ 890 mb?


As a fellow 8350 owner on a MSI 990fx-gd80v2 and 16gb of ram, I wouldn't waste time overclocking. Even at 4.6ghz (where I'm currently at), the returns are minimal. 

I'd honestly save up for total rebuild.  An Intel i5, or a Ryzen 5 or 7,  16gb of ram, and i'll let others recommend a GPU as I've haven't really kept up with them lately.  Id recommend staying with MSI tho.


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## StickySauce (Oct 26, 2018)

Okay, just so everyone understands, here's why I did what I did. 

My buddy has a RX470 in his PC. He came over and put it in mine uninstalled the old drivers and installed the new ones. And the card wouldn't work. I had no display, tried it multiple times with no luck. (BTW I am running the latest BIOS released for my board) So I got a R9 380. It resolved my issues, everything works much better now. Games play better and look better as I can turn the graphics setting up more, and I can start saving for a new build. It really came down to making this one work better til I build another one in a year. At that time, this PC will go to my nephew and will be a huge step up for him. 

If I was going to go through the trouble of getting a haswell system or newer and spend $500-$650 after board, CPU, ram and GPU I might as well build a brand new current gen on Black Friday and Cyber Monday and be good for the next 5-6 years again. This will get me through and only cost me two bills. 

If I could have made a RX or 1070/80 work on my board I would have bought that to move over to the new build next year, but I can't. 

So Swag, just because I didn't do it the way you would have done it, doesn't mean I did it the wrong way. And I would appreciate it if in the future if you wouldn't get so pissy over how I spent my money. This literally has no effect on your life and their is literally no reason you should need to insult my desicion. May seem moronic to you, but it made sense to me. 

And that is final! Lol.


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## Tatty_One (Oct 26, 2018)

It would appear that the OP has made his decision/purchase and therefore this is closed, thanks all for contributions.


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