# Tiny Phantom speaker from Devialet matches loudness of a rock concert



## natr0n (Aug 3, 2016)

"French manufacturer Devialet claims it has "the best wireless speaker in the world."

The company says its Phantom Gold maxes out at 4,500 watts and an astonishing 108 decibels, which is the equivalent of a live rock performance.

Owners of the entry-level models have to settle for 99 and 105 decibels respectively, which is still really loud.

But get ready to pay up if you want this product.

The entry-level White Phantom costs nearly $2,000, while the Gold version sells for nearly $3,000."


http://www.wptv.com/news/science-te...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

_______________________
Lets get deaf together !


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## qubit (Aug 3, 2016)

This appears to break the laws of physics to have that volume from something so small. You'd clearly see it physically vibrating and to a very high amplitude at that. I sense snake oil and fraud.

It also doesn't say anything about the frequency range of the device.


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## Dethroy (Aug 3, 2016)

Is this part of the stupid loudness war? Probably V-shaped to the max...


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## Ahhzz (Aug 3, 2016)

qubit said:


> This appears to break the laws of physics to have that volume from something so small. You'd clearly see it physically vibrating and to a very high amplitude at that. I sense snake oil and fraud.
> 
> It also doesn't say anything about the frequency range of the device.


http://en.devialet.com/assets/V3/pdf/White-Paper-Phantom-en.pdf

"_It is commonly accepted, based on the laws of physics, that great loudspeakers have to be huge. Well the laws of physics cannot be changed, but sometimes there is a lot to gain by pushing them to their very limits. A lot can be done if you don’t rely on existing technologies, but are willing and able to develop new ones that serve your specific purpose. It is all a matter of going as far as is physically possible, by looking at a given technical challenge with a new perspective. We decided on a performance we wanted to achieve, to create the ultimate home audio experience from a compact design, conveying the full music dynamics and physical impact: 
| 16Hz to 25kHz bandwidth, ± 2dB 
| 20Hz to 20kHz bandwidth, ± 0.5dB 
| 105dB maximum SPL*_"


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## natr0n (Aug 3, 2016)

Can you hear me now ?
What ?
I said can you hear me now ?
Sorry I'm prematurely deaf


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## RealNeil (Aug 3, 2016)

natr0n said:


> Sorry I'm prematurely deaf


LOL!
My wife is a High School teacher.
When the kids ask her about what field they should consider going into, she always tells them to become Audiologists.
There will be no shortage of customers for them.


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## qubit (Aug 3, 2016)

@Ahhzz ok so they list a frequency response. However, look at it and see how impossibly flat and wide it is. Speakers can never achieve this and even electronics would be challenged and have to be of very high quality to do so.

This so-called "product" is definitely snake oil which will have been designed to dupe rich, but gullible investors. It doesn't even look like a speaker. Is this a new company that's appeared out of nowhere?


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## Ahhzz (Aug 3, 2016)

@qubit you seem to be a bit... argumentative today? The company has been in business since 2007 (http://en.devialet.com/start-up/devialet), and they look, from a very basic google search, to be willing to put their money where their mouth is...


*45 DAY PHANTOM RISK-FREE TRIAL*
_Enjoy the Phantom experience in home and if you are not completely satisfied, return the Product for a full refund within the first forty-five (45) days following :
_

_The date of purchase in store ;_
_Receipt of Product in case of order. Phantom Risk Free Trial applies to any Phantom®, Silver Phantom® or Dialog® (the « Product ») purchased between September 18th, 2015 and December 31th, 2016._

https://store.devialet.com/us_en/45-day-free-trial/


everything alright?


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## Ferrum Master (Aug 3, 2016)

It is SCAM.

Nothing to see here mates.


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## remixedcat (Aug 3, 2016)

I kept thinking it was deviantArt releasing a speaker lol...


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## qubit (Aug 3, 2016)

Ahhzz said:


> @qubit you seem to be a bit... argumentative today? The company has been in business since 2007 (http://en.devialet.com/start-up/devialet), and they look, from a very basic google search, to be willing to put their money where their mouth is...
> 
> 
> *45 DAY PHANTOM RISK-FREE TRIAL*
> ...


I'm not argumentative. It's fake and I've pointed out some glaringly obvious reasons why it is. It's you who doesn't seem to want to see this for some reason. I see that I'm not the only one here calling out a fake. @Ferrum Master you cool bro. 

The fact that they claim to give a "money back guarantee" means nothing at all. Many confidence tricks (scams) do this to increase the gullible's confidence in buying their dodgy product. Believe me, no one, or only very few actually get their money back once they've paid for the fake item.

*EDIT*

Ok I've done a little googling for it and found a couple of Wired reviews so it appears to be a real thing. However, those are still impossible specs and those reviews read more like adverts rather than the kind of impartial review one would expect, with frequency graphs, distortion stats and power output (_especially_ power output in this case) so the product still isn't quite right. It's clearly marketed at the £100 HDMI cable crowd who will believe the lie that it will give a better picture.


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Aug 4, 2016)

Heres a review from 2014
_Devialet’s 40 engineers on the project notched up some 77 patents_

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/luxury/technology/55570/devialet-hits-a-high-note.html

_
_
and a guy talking about them
_







_


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## Ahhzz (Aug 4, 2016)

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> Heres a review from 2014
> _Devialet’s 40 engineers on the project notched up some 77 patents_
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/luxury/technology/55570/devialet-hits-a-high-note.html
> ...


Thanks for the find 
"Pros: Best sound quality ever, but you really need two"
"Cons: Expensive, esp since you really need two, plus the management module".

So. Sounds like a real thing. No "Scam". And apparently, if you've got the money, outstanding quality.


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## Ahhzz (Aug 4, 2016)

Ferrum Master said:


> It is SCAM.
> 
> Nothing to see here mates.


@Ferrum Master Just out of curiosity here, you were REALLY quick to yell "SCAM". What did you find in that short time to come to that conclusion?


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## AsRock (Aug 4, 2016)

is that 4,500 watts RMS, thinking not, probably some other BS PMP \PMPO form.

I will stick with normal speakers lol.


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## Ferrum Master (Aug 4, 2016)

It is scam because they do not give any real specs. 

4500W are 4500W no matter how it is handled even with hybrid D class ~ 90-95% effiecency + voltage drop on the rectifer. The amplifier looks like using quad 405 current dumping technique, I have build them a lot. It should blow your fuses btw.

So it must disipate around 250W heat. We all know how large the active heatsink must be to do so. With passive mode and these sizes? If those are are RMS values... then... well bad journslism and advert also.

The distortion figures are also scam. Also with quad, it has one if the top noch distortion figures as the class A stage does the feedback albeit there are various problems with spikes when the bridge switch on the current dumpers.

If they cannot provide SPL curve for their product at their site they deserve only one word - scammers.


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## FordGT90Concept (Aug 4, 2016)

http://www.digitaltrends.com/wireless-speaker-dock-reviews/devialet-phantom-review/
http://www.wired.com/2015/06/review-devialet-phantom-2/

It's real and it works.  It works opposite of a traditional speaker in that instead of trying to push air away from itself, it compresses it internally.  This means it is heavy but it also vastly increases the power it can output.

I don't know if the figures are RMS or not but it punches well above its weight.

http://en.devialet.com/assets/Uploads/RX7-xray-loop-2.mp4


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## ste2425 (Aug 4, 2016)

This'll be right good until your neighbours get a pair.


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## basco (Aug 4, 2016)

the real probs are the software restrictions.
there are others here that know better about the technical possibilities 
watch video above


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## Ferrum Master (Aug 4, 2016)

FordGT90Concept said:


> air away from itself, it compresses it internally



What's the difference with closed cabinet? I suspect it just uses multiple coils and it is a classic at least two way speaker in a metal framed egg shaped sphere.

It does not cancel the heat issue. You perfectly understand that 4500W will melt your power socket down... these numbers are rubbish. I can agree about power range around 200-300W (pure sinus wave).


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## FordGT90Concept (Aug 4, 2016)

It's completely (hermetically) sealed.

We don't know its power consumption.  All we know is that the 750w model can run on US NEMA-15 outlets. Remember, the wattage figure is the sound pressure, not electrical.  Also, they are described as peak power, not continuous.


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## Ferrum Master (Aug 4, 2016)

FordGT90Concept said:


> It's completely (hermetically) sealed.



Like closed cabinets are open lulz... 

Anyways... that's not the point, there is nothing new it this thing actually. It uses a titanium tweeter from a hole, thus you can hear highs only sitting in front of them. The woofer mid section is somewhere, we have no idea for the emitted sound wave field. Stereo imaging using these becomes very abstract, especially using it in a small room.

So no SPL curve. Only PR rubbish, video reviews from McDonald grade sellers. No real numbers, and those what are, one proven to be abstract, others have no info how it is measured.

Measurement and a proper SPL curve, and I bet the thing is so curved as a camels back... it may be loud, yeah... as your ex whining... but that's not the point.

I can firmly call it a scam. These audio snake oil products that promises to do revolution, improve everything(including hair loss) are almost like religious gospeling. Asking thousands for a such product knowing all this... well well well...


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## FordGT90Concept (Aug 4, 2016)

Closed cabinets aren't hermetically sealed.  Hermetically sealed is hermetically sealed.

The tweeter is positioned in the center of the mid-range woofer.

It is mono.  You need to buy two and a $500 wireless router to get stereo.

There's a crapload of pictures here:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/615-devialet-unleashes-phantom/
Looks like a freaking differential inside:


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## Ferrum Master (Aug 4, 2016)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Closed cabinets aren't hermetically sealed.



Closed cabinets that are hermetic are just called water proof outdoor speakers... they are all closed cabinet designs and same math applies it just does not do phase inversion, different constants for calculating, that's not a rocket science again. This one just is made of metal... slapped with some PA grade high efficiency speakers using rare earth magnets and multiple coils. Looking at it... It just cannot sound flat...

So... a mono speaker for few grands... it's just a brilliant technological progress.  matching them up would be nice... stereo using two receivers using wireless in a crowded AIR spectrum... .


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## FordGT90Concept (Aug 4, 2016)

Water proof is not hermetically sealed.  Hermetically sealed is hermetically sealed.  The pressure between inside the unit and outside can never equalize. "Phantom is built around two hermetic woofers that function under high pressure."  They never specify how much pressure is involved in operation.

Additionally, no one reviewed the 3000-4500w model (as far as I know).  It could easily be 220v only.








You can see at 2 minutes the 4500w Gold Phantoms operating.  Notice the subwoofers.  When they operate, firstly, they move a TON.  They're extremely energetic and far throwing compared to traditional woofers.  Secondly, they appear to not move on a single plane.  It could be the recordings or a trick on the eye but I noticed this in another review video.  They appear to be shift not only on the Z axis, but also rotate on X and Y axes as well.


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## Ferrum Master (Aug 4, 2016)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Water proof is not hermetically sealed.



It IS. Get a grip mate. Closed cabinet design it is and accept it. If the speaker cabinet leaks it wouldn't work it is sealed and relies on the pressure.

Woofer is a woofer and subwoofer is a subwoofer. I am starting to get afraid, you do really believe in those numbers? You cannot get such power from your mains outlet. That video... it is BULLSHIT the whole glitter around it, it is not a review... it is PR. I am really worried about you, already ordered some?


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## Ahhzz (Aug 4, 2016)

"There's no way this can exist!!"
"ok, well, so it exists, but it's not real!"
"Well, ok, so it's real but it doesn't do what they claim!!"
"Ok, so it does what they claim, but it can't possibly do this, because science!!"
"Well, ok so that's proof, but it's wrong!!"




"A *hermetic seal* is the quality of something—a container, structure, etc.—being *airtight* (excluding passage of air, oxygen, or other gases). Used technically, it is stated in conjunction with a specific test method and conditions of use."

Waterproof is not airproof.


wow... this thread just got a lot shorter


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## FordGT90Concept (Aug 4, 2016)

@Ferrum Master, you're acting like a "flat earther."  I thought it was fishy at first but then I did some research which lead me to think not a scam.  Then I did some more research and realized this is something special.

As far as I know, it's the only hermetically sealed design on the market.  Because the wattage numbers are given as sound pressure, I suspect the fact it runs at high pressure with a long throw leads to the ridiculously high wattage numbers.  Without firm power consumption numbers and root-mean-square numbers, it's difficult to know how it compares, in terms of power, to other speakers.  What we do know is that reviews universally say it sounds fantastic (but really needs a pair).  If it sounds fantastic, does the power really matter?  It's still considered a small speaker and because of its design, it's going to output a lot more power, more clearly, than competitive products.

This is like the Bentley, Maserati, Rolls-Royce, or Buggatti of wireless speakers.  The Gold Phantom (4500w model for $3000 USD) literally has titanium drivers and gold leaf on the case.


The hermetically sealed design is something we may see replicated in much cheaper models from other manufacturers.  That said, they did apply for some 120 patents so it might be a while before we see a competing product.


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## Ferrum Master (Aug 4, 2016)

FordGT90Concept said:


> @Ferrum Master, you're acting like a "flat earther."



I guess you are blinded by your own imagination coming from some reviews. So be it. AMD should hire this PR team.


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## Dethroy (Aug 4, 2016)

I quite frankly believe that they managed to make 'em sound loud, but in no way will these speakers produce audiophile sound. Reminds me a lot of Bose. Lots of marketing, no professional reviews and trying to gather blind followers; which again reminds me of the church.


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## ste2425 (Aug 4, 2016)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Closed cabinets aren't hermetically sealed.  Hermetically sealed is hermetically sealed.
> 
> The tweeter is positioned in the center of the mid-range woofer.
> 
> ...



The innards look pretty neat, better than the outside. It reminds me of the gearbox from a Lambretta.


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## Bill_Bright (Aug 4, 2016)

These speakers are NOT fake! There is a LOT of marketing "fluff" behind them, but reviews are generally very favorable.

Note the SoundGuys review:



> *Sound Quality*
> Hype can be both good and bad for a new product, and here it ended up being a bit of both. We were very excited to get the Devialet Phantom in for review, but because our expectations were set so high, it would have been tough to live up to them, no matter how good the speaker in question was.
> 
> Devialet boasts about the numerous patents that have been awarded to the company and throws a lot of terms around — Implosive Sound, ADH HBI — but what it comes down to is that this is a very loud speaker with an impressive frequency range of 16 Hz to 25 kHz. It’s definitely impressive to behold, but there are issues.
> ...


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## qubit (Aug 4, 2016)

Ahhzz said:


> "There's no way this can exist!!"
> "ok, well, so it exists, but it's not real!"
> "Well, ok, so it's real but it doesn't do what they claim!!"
> "Ok, so it does what they claim, but it can't possibly do this, because science!!"
> ...


Looks like you directed this comment at me.

So sure, when I looked into it a bit more I could see that it's a real product, but so what? There are still some impossible claims being made about it that I pointed out above, just like they get away with those "special" reassuringly expensive HDMI leads that "give you a better picture". Sure, they exist and they work fine, but the fancy claims used to jack up the price are snake oil - a flat out lie. Same with this. Now do you get it?

Oh and the speaker isn't tiny either - a misleading headline. It's actually roughly bookshelf sized.


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## FordGT90Concept (Aug 4, 2016)

It's smaller than my subwoofer...lighter too.


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## Bill_Bright (Aug 4, 2016)

A small bookshelf (9.8 inches x 13.8 inches x 9.8 inches) but yeah, I would not call them "tiny" either. It also weighs over 25lbs.


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Aug 4, 2016)

Do they make headphones?


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