# Long-Awaited Upgrade! Opinions Needed



## War_God (Dec 3, 2009)

Allright, so this is my first post in the TPU forums, even tough I check this site everyday. My regards to everyone 

So, after a much-prolongued waiting (about 4 years) I am about to start upgrading my desktop (as seen in the system specs).

Unfortunately, a full upgarde won't be possible. As such, my immediate plans are to upgrade the graphics card and the PSU, besides buying another 1Gb of DDR2.

I'm planning on aquiring an HD5850. That's decided. 

Now, on to the PSU. Which of these would you go for?

http://www.nox-xtreme.com/products_uk.php?cat=2&type=0&id=42
180$ (120€)

OR

http://www.corsair.com/products/tx/default.aspx
Corsair TX-750 - 180$



http://www.nox-xtreme.com/products_uk.php?cat=2&type=0&id=52
goes for about 135$ (90€)

OR

http://www.corsair.com/products/tx/default.aspx

Corsair TX-650 - 135$


The thing is, I'm not sure if I buy a PSU capable of Crossfiring in the future, or if I should just go with a single-card configuration 

If you could, please, help me decide 

I know my CPU and ram will (evidentely) bottleneck my GPU, bue we've got to play with what we have, right? But if you can give me an heads-up on exactly HOW MUCH will it hurt my Crysis framerate?

Thanks in advance


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## DonInKansas (Dec 3, 2009)

You can never go wrong with a Corsair PSU, but honestly I'd overhaul the mobo/CPU before dropping that kind of loot on a graphics card.


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## War_God (Dec 3, 2009)

I simply don't have the cash to do it, that's the problem. I would if I could - but I'm putting all my savings and Christmas-gathered money I have already :x


This one is pretty close in specs and performance to the NOX Sonar in my first post:

http://www.modreactor.com/english/Reviews/NOX-Apex-700W-Modular-PSU-Review.html


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## AlienIsGOD (Dec 3, 2009)

+1 for Corsair either the 650 or 750 are good options.


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## War_God (Dec 3, 2009)

The advantage the NOX have over the Corsair PSU is that they're modular, and I'd really like to have the least wires possible. With the money I'd pay for the TX-650 I could buy the Sonar -   + modular, + hd5850 CF capable.
I'd rather have one of the corsairs, of course. But the NOX seems more cost-effective :x

2 points for the corsair, then xD

And thanks for your quick replies =D


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## crazyeyesreaper (Dec 3, 2009)

get the corsair and learn to be a ziptie guru

theres a REASON corsair is voted best PSU maker  

even if i prefer PC P&C


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## MK4512 (Dec 3, 2009)

Well, if you have a 1920x1080 or bigger, you'll get about a 25%-30% increase in framerate with dual cards (sometimes more), so not really worth it until companies work out scaling issues. Also, the Corsair PSU may be a little much for what you have, I recommend something slightly cheaper like OCZ or Antec. That way you can afford a better CPU

Also, upgrade that CPU ASAP. It's like racing a Ferrari against a Tricycle (Not that big of a difference, but you get my point.) Thats the first thing you should upgrade...


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## War_God (Dec 3, 2009)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> get the corsair and learn to be a ziptie guru
> 
> theres a REASON corsair is voted best PSU maker
> 
> even if i prefer PC P&C



Obviously. I just think those NOX aren't so bad :x I Would prefer to go with a Corsair.
But I suppose modular cables aren't that important.



MK4512 said:


> Well, if you have a 1920x1080 or bigger, you'll get about a 25%-30% increase in framerate with dual cards (sometimes more), so not really worth it until companies work out scaling issues. Also, the Corsair PSU may be a little much for what you have, I recommend something slightly cheaper like OCZ or Antec. That way you can afford a better CPU
> 
> Also, upgrade that CPU ASAP. It's like racing a Ferrari against a Tricycle (Not that big of a difference, but you get my point.) Thats the first thing you should upgrade...



Well yeah, I have a 1920x1080, so not so much CPU-limited gaming as GPU-limited. There're not that many problems with GPU scaling these days - most games edge 80-90% faster framerates when a second GPU is added. My concern about going crossfire is if it will really be worth it to acquire another 5850 when the time comes - or if I'll be better off with a 6850 xD
Here in Portugal OCZ is not that much cheaper than Corsair, 600w Stealthxtream goes for 75€. And ANTEC is slightly costier than Corsair in most cases. I'm opting for such "good" PSU's because I intend to overhaul my entire system, in time - so I'll get the best I can.

Yes, I do understand what you mean :x That's my greatest concern about this upgrade. But i'm counting on the fact that games are more GPU limited than CPU. Still - I've seen the type of bottlenecking a bad CPU can do :x


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## crazyeyesreaper (Dec 3, 2009)

dont be a fool buy a GOOD PSU once and u wont have to buy components twice.

PCP&C  Corsair SilverStone  are the three brands i tend to trust most in giving me a solid PSU altho the enermax revolution series i think are damn nice PSU as well


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## War_God (Dec 3, 2009)

Yes. But i've also built two systems for friends, and I've used NOX Urano 600w for both of them - they were in tight budgets, just like me. Neither they nor I can say a thing against any of those Nox. I don't think NOX are that bad. Corsair are better, yes. But price/performance? I'm not so sure...

My only experience with other-brand PSU's is trough reviews :x


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## crazyeyesreaper (Dec 3, 2009)

if u can get them at the right price Corsair PCP&C and a silverstone will last that and yes most PSU will last just fine but i tend to go out of my way to get the better build quality because i dont have the time to rma a bunch of parts that may fry if a PSU goes and ive never heard of Nox psu so for me there up there with codegen or however its spelt and there PSUs are junk but then again could be location im here in the states your in portugal


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## MK4512 (Dec 3, 2009)

War_God said:


> Obviously. I just think those NOX aren't so bad :x I Would prefer to go with a Corsair.
> But I suppose modular cables aren't that important.
> 
> 
> ...




Hmmm, 80%? 

Looking at these past reviews...
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_5970_CrossFire/27.html
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870_CrossFire/27.html

Doesn't seem to likely...


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## dr emulator (madmax) (Dec 3, 2009)

you've not mentioned the tx range of corsair which have modular cables, but that luxury comes at a premium, not sure how much more it would be in $, 
but you can't really skimp on power i did with a cheap powerpack on mine and all i got was the glorious blue screen of death, strangely not on every game just a few, now i have a hx corsair 650watt and it's sound so i'd say a corsair 750w or 850w as i can see from one of the mods here who has got a pair of hd5850's with a 750watt (although i would be tempted to go a little higher than 750 to be on the safe side  )


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## kurosagi01 (Dec 3, 2009)

i would try go all around, what i would do is get an AM2+ motherboard so you can use your DDR2 rams still,an AMD Athlon II X2 or X3 CPU, corsair 450W and grab yourself a 5750 or 5770, that way you would have balance of power.

Getting a 5850 for your rig will get a big bottleneck in my opinion.


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## War_God (Dec 3, 2009)

MK4512 said:


> Hmmm, 80%?
> 
> Looking at these past reviews...
> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_5970_CrossFire/27.html
> ...



This is from another site, depicting the advantage of crossfire and sli systems VS single card configurations. (not sure if I can post it, but here goes...)







Most are around the 80% performance boost.



dr emulator (madmax) said:


> you've not mentioned the tx range of corsair which have modular cables, but that luxury comes at a premium, not sure how much more it would be in $,
> but you can't really skimp on power i did with a cheap powerpack on mine and all i got was the glorious blue screen of death, strangely not on every game just a few, now i have a hx corsair 650watt and it's sound so i'd say a corsair 750w or 850w as i can see from one of the mods here who has got a pair of hd5850's with a 750watt (although i would be tempted to go a little higher than 750 to be on the safe side  )



The HX 650 would be greatly overpriced: 130€ (200$!!!) against the 130$ on the 780w NOX, which is also modular.



kurosagi01 said:


> i would try go all around, what i would do is get an AM2+ motherboard so you can use your DDR2 rams still,an AMD Athlon II X2 or X3 CPU, corsair 450W and grab yourself a 5750 or 5770, that way you would have balance of power.
> 
> Getting a 5850 for your rig will get a big bottleneck in my opinion.



I'm counting on buying in the nest 4 months a gigabyte-ga-ma790xt-ud4p or (of I'm lucky) an asus crosshair III formula, paired with a phenom 2 X2 550 (for core unlocking, luckily xD) and 2x2 gb G-skill trident 2000MHz. So, i'm just counting on the future :x and I want Really good stuff for this rig, so that I don't have to upgrade again in a hurry and can play at 1920x1080. Thus the 5850.

I COULD wait - watch the prices on the 5850 drop, maybe even get a 5870, and buy the entire rig at once, but honestly, I'm tired of waiting for being able to upgrade. I want to game. And I want it Now xD


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## CJCerny (Dec 3, 2009)

Seems like a mistake to buy a 5850 to go with a Pentium 4. The 5850 is going to be seriously boound up at the CPU and you'll be unable to tap a good portion of its horsepower. If it were me, I would buy something like a 4670HD or a 9600GT or maybe even a low power 9800GT and keep your power supply and just keep saving to buy a new everything. The leap from the 7300GS to the 4670HD is huge and I don't suspect that a 5850 is going to be able to crank out a lot more frames than a 4670HD because of your CPU.


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## War_God (Dec 3, 2009)

CJCerny said:


> Seems like a mistake to buy a 5850 to go with a Pentium 4. The 5850 is going to be seriously boound up at the CPU and you'll be unable to tap a good portion of its horsepower. If it were me, I would buy something like a 4670HD or a 9600GT or maybe even a low power 9800GT and keep your power supply and just keep saving to buy a new everything. The leap from the 7300GS to the 4670HD is huge and I don't suspect that a 5850 is going to be able to crank out a lot more frames than a 4670HD because of your CPU.



Nah :x I'd rather not buy anything at all and just wait than to spend money in a card I wouldn't keep for long :shadedshu Maybe I Will have to wait, but I'd really like to know - roughly - how much of a bottleneck would my good ol' pentium be at 1280x1024 and 1920x1080. If anyone had one of them pentiums serving as cup bases, and could put it to the test, I'd Really apreciate it 

Besides, at 1920x1080, I think the bottlenecking wouldn't be half that bad :x (heres hoping...)


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## kurosagi01 (Dec 3, 2009)

no it be really bad, a single core just won't do anything good for gaming now.
If you want get the 5850 then i would save up until you can buy the card,PSU and a motherboard+CPU.
(off-topic)
You don't want pull a u2konline on us =p


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## War_God (Dec 3, 2009)

kurosagi01 said:


> no it be really bad, a single core just won't do anything good for gaming now.
> If you want get the 5850 then i would save up until you can buy the card,PSU and a motherboard+CPU.
> (off-topic)
> You don't want pull a u2konline on us =p


















I'm NOT happy at all to see that, and those are the images that have been mowing my nerves down. But, the settings ARE at medium quality, with no AA or AF, so, they're just pushing the CPU. Besides, I believe my pentium would stack up agains that celeron E1600 on stock settings - and mine's O'Ced.

Hey, It has 1 physical and 1 theoretical core 

I don't know. I really didn't want to wait. I really want to play Shift and Crysis on my LCD... But I'll probably have to wait, for now. with 300€ I can buy the hardware bits I've stated above, the mobo, the phenom 2 and the rams. But I'd have to wait for at least 3 more months. And even then...

off-topic:
(sorry, I didn't undestand that u2konline line xD LOL what did you mean by that?)


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## kurosagi01 (Dec 3, 2009)

u2konline is this guy who likes asking for some advice&opinion and then ever takes it,he also likes posting how good his single core is with a low end card and the fact he will NEVER use a gfx card that requires a power connector.

There is a chance you might perform same as  standard clock E1600,but that CPU is a entry level to duo core.

You are probably looking close or do better than the sempron 140 with your CPU, remember the E1600 is a duo core@ 2.2GHZ,and since theirs 2 cores it be running at 4.4GHZ in total.

Edit:
If you can push your budget to 350 euro i would grab AM2+ motherboard+ AMD Athlon II X3 425,2GB ram 667,ATI Radeon HD 5770 and a corsair 550W, you will notice a huge improvement if you go with that instead of just getting 5850+ a psu


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## brandonwh64 (Dec 3, 2009)

Looks like the GTX 285 slied is FASTER than the ATI 5870 crossfired? am i wrong?


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## War_God (Dec 3, 2009)

kurosagi01 said:


> u2konline is this guy who likes asking for some advice&opinion and then ever takes it,he also likes posting how good his single core is with a low end card and the fact he will NEVER use a gfx card that requires a power connector.
> 
> There is a chance you might perform same as  standard clock E1600,but that CPU is a entry level to duo core.
> 
> ...



LOL be at peace, i'm not pulling anything of sorts xD I Want to get rid of my pentium --' xD and I want to use a card that requires 2 power connectors 

Yes, but mine is a "dual-core" of sorts (come on, dream) too  3.8 x 2  makes almost 8Ghz of netburst wonder xD

LOL ara you kidding? I wish xD here's the pricing:
Phenom 2 X2 550 - 100€
gigabyte ga-ma-790xt-ud4p  -  100€
2x2Gb gskill trident 2000 - 100€
power supply (one of the above) - 100€
5850 - 230€

Total desired rig cost: 630€

I could spend less on the PSU, but I think I want to have the ability to go to CF if I ever see fit to :x
I don't want to buy a 50€ mobo and a 50€ processor :x and the prices in Europe are, unfortunately, Very over the edge.

Make no mistake, those Are good advices. But if I'll spend money, I want more than just the "mainstream"  If we have to dream, dream high, right?


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## War_God (Dec 3, 2009)

brandonwh64 said:


> Looks like the GTX 285 slied is FASTER than the ATI 5870 crossfired? am i wrong?
> 
> http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/radeon-hd5800-crossfirex/diagr/23_cf_vs_sli_big.png



This is just the percentage relative to the crossfire or sli growth on those given games, not performance figures. 5870's frames grow 80% with the addition of a secon card, 285's grow 70%, and so on.


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## kurosagi01 (Dec 3, 2009)

you know high price and good product line isn't always mean better, the athlon II X3 425 processor is actually really good,its so good its almost as good as the phenom II X3 720 Black Edition now that is a big shock isn't it? consider they have like maybe 40euro difference or something.
heres the benchmarks of games from the 425:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Athlon_II_X3_425/10.html
As you can see it actually came close to the 710(lower version of 720 lol) but i can bet you it is as good as the 720 and its cheaper.
Best bang of the buck triple core CPU you can buy.
SLI/Crossfire isn't always all that you don't really need it if your only going use it for gaming.


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## musek (Dec 3, 2009)

War_God said:


> Phenom 2 X2 550 - 100€
> gigabyte ga-ma-790xt-ud4p  -  100€
> 2x2Gb gskill trident 2000 - 100€
> power supply (one of the above) - 100€
> 5850 - 230€



Well... Maybe it's just me, but I would buy an Athlon II X3 435, which is a 2.9GHz Triple-Core. IMO far more better option than Phenom 2 X2 550. And even in Europe - you can get it a little cheaper. 

I won't say a word about the motherboard and memory as they are really decent. 

But please - do not save money on your PSU! Get Corsair and be happy.


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## War_God (Dec 3, 2009)

kurosagi01 said:


> you know high price and good product line isn't always mean better, the athlon II X3 425 processor is actually really good,its so good its almost as good as the phenom II X3 720 Black Edition now that is a big shock isn't it? consider they have like maybe 40euro difference or something.
> heres the benchmarks of games from the 425:
> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Athlon_II_X3_425/10.html
> As you can see it actually came close to the 710(lower version of 720 lol) but i can bet you it is as good as the 720 and its cheaper.
> ...



Right, and here that CPU is at 65 €... But what will it unlock to? I mean, I might be trowing my hands in fire, but I was buying that phenom 2 x2 because it could very likely turn into a x4. I'd actually be getting a high-end cpu. Now I do understand it's pushing luck  at the draw, but still..
Yes, it's a good processor, no doubt. And when O'ced, oh yeah xD But to OC that processor I'd have to buy a good mobo, like the one I've already picked. I don't think a much cheaper motherboard would be able to OC that processor to its limits (since it's not a BE).

Maybe. But just to think that with the 5850 prices falling after the launch of fermi I could double my performance with just more 140€... But yeah, you're right, maybe I don't really need to keep CF as an option.


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## War_God (Dec 3, 2009)

musek said:


> Well... Maybe it's just me, but I would buy an Athlon II X3 435, which is a 2.9GHz Triple-Core. IMO far more better option than Phenom 2 X2 550. And even in Europe - you can get it a little cheaper.
> 
> I won't say a word about the motherboard and memory as they are really decent.
> 
> But please - do not save money on your PSU! Get Corsair and be happy.



But it has no L3 cache, and doesn't have the option of unlocking to a full-fledged quad-core 940 :x I now it's a god processor, and it's cheaper too. like almost half the price.

Yeah, the memory is a really good deal.

I wasn't going to save money on the PSU xD I's spend just about the exact same amount of money on Corsair or Nox - just to say that with NOX I get more watts, ~ the same efficiency, modular cables, and a less-noisy PSU. and less 3 years in warranty, let's face it.


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## kurosagi01 (Dec 4, 2009)

everyone will still recommend corsair over "NOX" even with more Wattages or whatever.
My corsair 400W kicks every cheapo 550W PSU out there and its better than the OCZ Stealthxstram 500W,the 12V rail amp is so good you could practically run any card with a 6-pin power connector.

quad core unlockable on the X2 550? i never heard of that i swear you can only unlock 1 core which will make it a triple core not a quad.
Everyone will recommend you SPEND the most of your money on the PSU as it is the most important factor of the PSU which is why a lot of use PSU such as corsair.


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## War_God (Dec 4, 2009)

kurosagi01 said:


> everyone will still recommend corsair over "NOX" even with more Wattages or whatever.
> My corsair 400W kicks every cheapo 550W PSU out there and its better than the OCZ Stealthxstram 500W,the 12V rail amp is so good you could practically run any card with a 6-pin power connector.
> 
> quad core unlockable on the X2 550? i never heard of that i swear you can only unlock 1 core which will make it a triple core not a quad.
> Everyone will recommend you SPEND the most of your money on the PSU as it is the most important factor of the PSU which is why a lot of use PSU such as corsair.



I'm sure. Damn, even I would recommend Corsair over NOX to myself, and I do. But "NOX" has all that extra stuff xD Well, the lowest corsair I can find is that TX-650. Have you checked the specifications and the review on that nox? it's in my second post, I believe.







That's a phenom 2 x2 550 with 4 cores (2 + 2 unlocked) and overclocked.

Im being brought to the Dark Side, and I like it  I know the PSU is one of the most crucial factors on a PC, but man, that's just so many extras --'


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## Zubasa (Dec 4, 2009)

kurosagi01 said:


> everyone will still recommend corsair over "NOX" even with more Wattages or whatever.
> My corsair 400W kicks every cheapo 550W PSU out there and its better than the OCZ Stealthxstram 500W,the 12V rail amp is so good you could practically run any card with a 6-pin power connector.
> 
> quad core unlockable on the X2 550? i never heard of that i swear you can only unlock 1 core which will make it a triple core not a quad.
> Everyone will recommend you SPEND the most of your money on the PSU as it is the most important factor of the PSU which is why a lot of use PSU such as corsair.


That PSU with 80+ bronze is most certainly not one of those el cheapos 
It actually puts out 635Ws on its +12V rails, the only problem is this sucker split it into 6 +12V rails. :shadedshu


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## Kenshai (Dec 4, 2009)

I honestly wouldn't bank on that x2 unlocking. It's a chance if it doesn't unlock then in your mind it is worthless. I'd recommend picking up the x3 like Kurosagi suggested. Just built a rig with the quad core version for a friend, it definitely does the job. That + 5770 I haven't found a game that it won't play well at 1680x1050.


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## War_God (Dec 4, 2009)

Kenshai said:


> I honestly wouldn't bank on that x2 unlocking. It's a chance if it doesn't unlock then in your mind it is worthless. I'd recommend picking up the x3 like Kurosagi suggested. Just built a rig with the quad core version for a friend, it definitely does the job. That + 5770 I haven't found a game that it won't play well at 1680x1050.



I know it would be a tough chance, albeit an extremely temptative one. 
Having heard what all you guys have said and re-viewng some reviews, I think I will in fact opt for the X3. It's as good as the x2 550 in most benchmarks, loses a few, wins even more, can turn itself into a quad-core (again, luckily) and the extra core more than makes up for the lack of L3 cache in games. Besides, it's 35€ cheaper 

I can't play at 1680x1050, only my laptop has that screen resolution. I only have a 1280x1024 monitor and a 1920x1080 40" HDTV. So, I want a graphics card that's able tu run most games at 1920x1080, since it's the highest resolution I'm going to play at. The 5770 IS 100€ cheaper than the HD5850 - But it's very crippled when comapred to it too.


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## kurosagi01 (Dec 4, 2009)

well if you exclude game like crysis you can see the 5770 actually did very good on 1920x1200 which is a bigger resolution than 1080 no?:


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## War_God (Dec 4, 2009)

kurosagi01 said:


> well if you exclude game like crysis you can see the 5770 actually did very good on 1920x1200 which is a bigger resolution than 1080 no?:
> http://tpucdn.com/reviews/HIS/HD_5770/images/cod4_1920_1200.gifhttp://tpucdn.com/reviews/HIS/HD_5770/images/hawx_1920_1200.gif
> http://tpucdn.com/reviews/HIS/HD_5770/images/farcry2_1920_1200.gif



Yes, indeed, it didn't fare bad at all. Don't misunderstand me, it's a great card. But it's slower than an hd4890, and what to say about it's performance in Dx11 games? at least with the 5850 I have almost double the reserve in shader power, along with much more bandwidth :x
Maybe the difference between the 5770 can be minimized with driver and game optimizations. But it may as well not be


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## Kenshai (Dec 4, 2009)

War_God said:


> Yes, indeed, it didn't fare bad at all. Don't misunderstand me, it's a great card. But it's slower than an hd4890, and what to say about it's performance in Dx11 games? at least with the 5850 I have almost double the reserve in shader power, along with much more bandwidth :x
> Maybe the difference between the 5770 can be minimized with driver and game optimizations. But it may as well not be



DX11 is supposed to be better optimized, getting higher frame rates than previous dx versions, at least that's what I understand.


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## War_God (Dec 4, 2009)

Kenshai said:


> DX11 is supposed to be better optimized, getting higher frame rates than previous dx versions, at least that's what I understand.



That's what it's supposed to be, anyway. I'll believe it when I see it. DX10 was supposed to be a huge step forward in graphics - surprise surprise... we all got 

And with the scores in Unigine Heaven beign what thy are, I don't know where this is going. Ok, it's an over-tesselated benchmark, and it doesn't reflect real.world gameplay. But it gives a general idea on what to expect. I don't know, man... Dirt 2 is coming out soon - we'll se about it in reality just then  here's hoping...


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## Kenshai (Dec 4, 2009)

War_God said:


> That's what it's supposed to be, anyway. I'll believe it when I see it. DX10 was supposed to be a huge step forward in graphics - surprise surprise... we all got
> 
> And with the scores in Unigine Heaven beign what thy are, I don't know where this is going. Ok, it's an over-tesselated benchmark, and it doesn't reflect real.world gameplay. But it gives a general idea on what to expect. I don't know, man... Dirt 2 is coming out soon - we'll se about it in reality just then  here's hoping...



Dirt 2 wasn't originally designed for DX11 so they won't really be that great of a comparison. I believe they said they were only adding parts of what DX11 supports.


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## War_God (Dec 4, 2009)

Kenshai said:


> Dirt 2 wasn't originally designed for DX11 so they won't really be that great of a comparison. I believe they said they were only adding parts of what DX11 supports.



I wasn't aware of that. But yeah, I had partially figured it out, thus the XBOX360 and PS3 versions. But still, it will have Some DX11 traits... I'm  hoping DX11 will bring really good performance improvements. When you look at battleforge:

http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews.php?reviewid=842&pageid=5

There were some pretty good improvements: both performance and image quality received a bump, and it was only with a patch. Maybe Dirt2 will be even better.
But until I see some more benchmarks of the 5770 on DX11, I'm more inclined to a 5850.


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## Kenshai (Dec 4, 2009)

War_God said:


> I wasn't aware of that. But yeah, I had partially figured it out, thus the XBOX360 and PS3 versions. But still, it will have Some DX11 traits... I'm  hoping DX11 will bring really good performance improvements. When you look at battleforge:
> 
> http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews.php?reviewid=842&pageid=5
> 
> ...



To be honest, I'd grab a 5770 and if you feel the need later get a second one for some crossfire action. They will beat the 5850 in most tests as well as the 5870 about half the time at least according to this review. In the end you may not feel the need to even get another card, it's just the possibility that you could. Yes it will be a little more expensive than a 5850, but it's less money in the front end.


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## Zubasa (Dec 4, 2009)

War_God said:


> I wasn't aware of that. But yeah, I had partially figured it out, thus the XBOX360 and PS3 versions. But still, it will have Some DX11 traits... I'm  hoping DX11 will bring really good performance improvements. When you look at battleforge:
> 
> http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews.php?reviewid=842&pageid=5
> 
> ...


I got Dirt2 yesterday.
It is actually quite well written to be honest. 
My rig played it like a dream, and there are some guys that are quite happy with it playing on notebooks.


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## War_God (Dec 4, 2009)

Kenshai said:


> To be honest, I'd grab a 5770 and if you feel the need later get a second one for some crossfire action. They will beat the 5850 in most tests as well as the 5870 about half the time at least according to this review. In the end you may not feel the need to even get another card, it's just the possibility that you could. Yes it will be a little more expensive than a 5850, but it's less money in the front end.



Yeah, it is less money in the short-run, and maybe even in the long run. But how much would CF be bottlenecked with a 8x8 pci-express configuration? Well, I suppose I could overclock the PCI-E bus to compensate xD Forget it, the difference would be minimal.
Anyway, I'd save 100€ if I bought the 5770 intead of the 5850, and that would only cover the mobo. no cpu, no DDR3...




Zubasa said:


> I got Dirt2 yesterday.
> It is actually quite well written to be honest.
> My rig played it like a dream, and there are some guys that are quite happy with it playing on notebooks.



Great  put in some benchies if you have the time 
My notebook has a 9300GS. I'd be better off not even trying to play it, unfortunately.


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## Kenshai (Dec 4, 2009)

War_God said:


> Yeah, it is less money in the short-run, and maybe even in the long run. But how much would CF be bottlenecked with a 8x8 pci-express configuration? Well, I suppose I could overclock the PCI-E bus to compensate xD Forget it, the difference would be minimal.
> Anyway, I'd save 100€ if I bought the 5770 intead of the 5850, and that would only cover the mobo. no cpu, no DDR3...



Very minimal loss at all looking at wizz's review. Looking at 1% @ 1920@1080 with a 5870 so probably none at all with the 5770.


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## War_God (Dec 4, 2009)

Kenshai said:


> Very minimal loss at all looking at wizz's review. Looking at 1% @ 1920@1080 with a 5870 so probably none at all with the 5770.



Yup, I remembered I had seen that comparison right here, so I went and checked it again. Thus my shambled thoughts in that post xD So that wouldn't be a problem, great 
I just saw a benchmark comparing dx11 vs dx9 performance and IQ on Dirt 2.

Here's 1280x1024:






And here's 1920x1200:






I simply cannot understand such a small diference between the 5870/5850 relative to an HD4890. 5870 has double the processing potencial, and only has like 1/3 more performance. Even worse with the HD5850.
The 5770 is way behind the 4890, but performs ~ on par with the 4870. Looks like ATI's architecture's not being put to good use


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## Kenshai (Dec 4, 2009)

War_God said:


> Yup, I remembered I had seen that comparison right here, so I went and checked it again. Thus my shambled thoughts in that post xD So that wouldn't be a problem, great
> I just saw a benchmark comparing dx11 vs dx9 performance and IQ on Dirt 2.
> 
> Here's 1280x1024:
> ...



More than likely due to mature drivers.


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## War_God (Dec 4, 2009)

Kenshai said:


> More than likely due to mature drivers.



Sure thing. It hasn't passed that much time since the 5000 series release, but I had expected to see a "slightly" bigger growth in performance by now. something more like the growth in NFS Shift.


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## War_God (Dec 10, 2009)

OK, so I ordered a corsair tx-650 today, for 80€. It's arriving next wednesday, tops. Just wanted you guys to know. Thanks for your feedback until now


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## musek (Dec 10, 2009)

Good choice!


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