# Project: The Ultimate AGP System (PC-A05FNB/HD3850)



## Jayzilla (Sep 1, 2012)

Are you thinking this is an AGP video card with a Lian Li case work log? You are damn right, and it is going to be Ultimate. 

What so special about this work log?
Since this will be my last casemod project before I go back to school and travel. I will put all my modding ideas I have on this project. The system will be fully water-cooled. Very cool indeed. Most of the parts on this project are discontinued and hard to find. So it will take some time to complete. 

Why investing on obsolete components?
If we are really into casemodding, this question is not really important. I can see why people fixing their 73 Mustang. My casemod hobby started on AGP age, I had Windows 95 and I was live in Vietnam at that time. I always wanted to build an awesome high-end desktop, but I’ve never have the time and money to actually do it. Time going by and the AGP age was already over years ago. I’m putting an end to platform.

Chao. My name is Jay and I’m here to make sure this work log is worth your time, or we can simply talk about casemod logic and see some cool parts. All the hardware are fixed but I’m open to comments and advise. 

Main parts:
-Case: PC-A05FNB
-Board: AM2NF3-VSTA
-GPU: HIS Ice turbo HD 3850
-CPU: Phenom II X4 980
-PPU: Zotac GT 430
-PSU: Seasonic or OCZ modular.
-RAM: OCZ Flex
-HDD: Western Raptor X2

OS: Windows XP 32-bit (only choice)

Cooling parts (in planning):
-Pump: dual or triple pumps. 
-Rad: 2X120MM, 1X240MM, 2X20MM!?.
-Blocks: ?
-Tubing: ¼.

Mod parts:
-Follow the log and you’ll see.

*Sponsors*​
I don’t get any hardware sponsors since this is not a standard system, but the photo tethering software helps me a lot in this work-log. Thank you!






http://controlmynikon.com
The finest tethering software for your Nikon DSLR.





http://rebuildingcenter.org
Thanks for the ideas and screws.

*Special thanks: *​




Thanks for letting me pursue The American Dream.





http://zerenesystems.com
The best photo stacking program out there.





A great place for me to learn and post. 

Katie and Gordon 
Thanks for buying and transporting the CPU cooler.

TRWOV (a hardcore AGP user at techpowerup).
Thanks for all the friendly advises.​​









One of the unique parts for this project. I’m not sure if I’m going to use this. I will do a benchmark for this item later.

Be sure to check back.
Cheers


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 1, 2012)

Now I am under the impression that Agp and multi core cpu's especially Amd's don't play nice together. I am curious on to how you are going to remedy this. Also I am not seeing support for the proc you want to use for the board you listed.


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## _JP_ (Sep 1, 2012)

Aye. The last BIOS update for that board adds support for the 970BE, no sign of the 980 BE.
Also, I doubt overclocking on that board is going to provide anything worth its time.
ASRock boards of the time were built to satisfy the budget line for users that just wanted something that worked, usually, for a long time.


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## Aquinus (Sep 1, 2012)

You know, they don't say that the 3850 is supported with AM2+ chips. Considering you'll be running an AM3 chip, it may be safe to assume that there are similar issues there as well.

http://www.asrock.com/support/note/AM2NF3-VSTA.html#Phenom


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 2, 2012)

I am pretty sure he will have issues running a agp card with a multi core cpu. He may want to find the fastest single core cpu he can get his hands on that will work in his board.


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## Solaris17 (Sep 2, 2012)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> I am pretty sure he will have issues running a agp card with a multi core cpu. He may want to find the fastest single core cpu he can get his hands on that will work in his board.



now now lets see what happens. shit if need be he'll make another thread im sure we can all get together and fix it. bios coders driver coders modders memory limiters. shit ill help him do something never done before no problem.


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 2, 2012)

Solaris17 said:


> now now lets see what happens. shit if need be he'll make another thread im sure we can all get together and fix it. bios coders driver coders modders memory limiters. shit ill help him do something never done before no problem.


  Hell we may be to talk through soldering in another agp port in place of a pci port and run agp Crossfire.


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## TRWOV (Sep 2, 2012)

He has tested several setups by now. I'm sure he'll do fine.


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## Solaris17 (Sep 2, 2012)

TRWOV said:


> He has tested several setups by now. I'm sure he'll do fine.



stop taking the fun out of it go away.


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## Aquinus (Sep 2, 2012)

TRWOV said:


> He has tested several setups by now. I'm sure he'll do fine.





Solaris17 said:


> stop taking the fun out of it go away.



Way to go, you just ruined Solaris' dreams.


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 2, 2012)

Well I recently built a Agp s939 system and it didn't want play nice at all with a Ati card and and dual core proc. I had to run a Nvidia card and Ubuntu to get it halfway stable. And then it still wasn't 100% percent.


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## TRWOV (Sep 2, 2012)

Solaris17 said:


> stop taking the fun out of it go away.



Sorry, didn't mean to 




Aquinus said:


> Way to go, you just ruined Solaris' dreams.



Well, he could help me to run the RAM in my Conroe865PE at full speed.  I've been looking for someone to mod the bios as the RAM runs at 3:2 when a 1066 CPU is used.  I've run my Redlines at 275Mhz so I know they can take the heat.

Still, as Mad_Shot mentioned, the setup is hardly ideal. Being limited to XP with such hardware because of driver issues is sad  The board can use up to 8GB but in XP it won't do shit. There are "working" drivers for W7 on Windows Update but the cards work in PCI mode:


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 2, 2012)

Well the ultimate AGP system should be on win xp any way as that was the os of choice back in those days


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## Jayzilla (Sep 4, 2012)

*Thank You!*



ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> Now I am under the impression that Agp and multi core cpu's especially Amd's don't play nice together. I am curious on to how you are going to remedy this. Also I am not seeing support for the proc you want to use for the board you listed.





_JP_ said:


> Aye. The last BIOS update for that board adds support for the 970BE, no sign of the 980 BE.
> Also, I doubt overclocking on that board is going to provide anything worth its time.
> ASRock boards of the time were built to satisfy the budget line for users that just wanted something that worked, usually, for a long time.





Aquinus said:


> You know, they don't say that the 3850 is supported with AM2+ chips. Considering you'll be running an AM3 chip, it may be safe to assume that there are similar issues there as well.
> 
> http://www.asrock.com/support/note/AM2NF3-VSTA.html#Phenom



Thanks yo’ll for all the kind comments. So much love I’m receiving for this project on TPU. In return I will try my best to showcase the system. 

I started a thread somewhere asking the compatibility for the Phenom 980 with the AM2NF3-VSTA. I got turned down with most of the answers. No one does seem to have exp with this CPU and board. My thought was the latest BIOS supports the 970, why not the 980? And the 975/980 came out a year after the last BIOS updates. I tried and BOOM! I was like F*** yeah! Fastest quad core and AGP, here I come.






My bottom line is sometimes we have to try shit out even everyone said no. Just like the Zalman ZM-GWB 3850 water block will not fit the AGP version (Got told from Zalman official). I can’t find any info in the whole World Wide Web but hunt the block down and try it and BOOM!



ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> I am pretty sure he will have issues running a agp card with a multi core cpu. He may want to find the fastest single core cpu he can get his hands on that will work in his board.



Like TRWOV mentioned earlier. The issue I’m having with this particular board is I can ONLY stick with WinXP-32bit. Others let down is Kim Kardashian wouldn’t want to go out with me.

I’ve thought about the Conroe865PE too. It can handles Windows 7 but I want DDR2 platform. So the AM2NF3-VSTA is the best choice for me.












Solaris17 said:


> now now lets see what happens. shit if need be he'll make another thread im sure we can all get together and fix it. bios coders driver coders modders memory limiters. shit ill help him do something never done before no problem.



You can mod bios? I have no knowledge of bios modding. I wish this board could run XP-64bit or windows 7. No one seems to care about AGP nowadays. So I didn’t bother to ask.



ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> Hell we may be to talk through soldering in another agp port in place of a pci port and run agp Crossfire.



I doubt I will have any PCI slots left, but that sounds interesting!



ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> Well the ultimate AGP system should be on win xp any way as that was the os of choice back in those days



You got it. XP-64bit was my first choice for this project.

What’s next?
Review that hyper-cooler.
Current status: Trying out PhysX with the Zotac GT 430.

********************************************​
Before I have another updates. I want to share something with you guys. I just bought this desktop. 














We seem scammer on fleebay pretty often these days. What interested me is this guy selling other’s people casemod project. I knew because I’ve live long enough on fleebay/casemodding industries. I got impressed with this casemod because of the straight tubing. So I went ahead and buy it! Here are my conversations with that guy.

Me: Where is the CD ROM? I didn't see it. How many GB of DDR3 you have in here? Any more details you can give me? I'm ready to pay.

scamie: This system is 12GB DDR3, the CD rom does not have an actual tray. It was actually modified from a cars strio system their for you slide the DVD / CD in and press eject to remove the DVD / CD. It is the little green light at the bottom of the front face.
I'm, having trouble with Paypal connecting to other websites such as amazon and other sites, if the payment does not correctly send, send it directly to XXXX@live.com from your Paypal, in the note leave me this eBay order ID. Alongside with your full shipping address. To avoid any complications please send as a gift. (right.)
Thank you,
Thomas. 

Me: That is a cool looking PC right there. How come the CPU from your screen shoot doesn't match what you have listed? 

Scamie: That picture is taken 7/22 I placed an order for a couple new drives and cards the 5th, I've actually also installed a fresh LEGAL copy of windows seven. This does come with a windows seven disk, including the key. I have just installed esus-partition for you due to me spiting my drives into multi partition to dual boot with mac OSx and Windows XP pro, Mac has been removed due to software problems but windows XP is still included in the boot sequence 1500GB is dedicated to the F drive of windows seven and another 500gb is dedicated to the Windows XP installation. Nothing is installed on both OS's as of now it is just two clean installs of both Win 7 & WinXP. Their should be no issues software nor hardware this computer was very rarely used. Honestly I hate to see this go but being called in I'm not going to be able to store it anywhere it will get stolen this is a very expensive piece of work. And I ask for you to take care of it as I would. Are you still interested in it?

Me: Dear Mr. Thomas or whatever your real name is-
I think I should stop asking you technical questions and let you go get a life. The answers you made up does not impress me at all. Here is the thing, If I ever try to fake an expensive painting and try to sell it, I wouldn't pick Picasso works  I’m cool with everything you said, but about the Armed Forces, I hope that is really untruth, because I don’t want someone like you serving our country. I wish you the best in your life. 
Sincerely 
Jay

Reference:Cm-haf-xl by Kier
http://madebykier.com/2011/04/25/cm-haf-xl/ 

Cheers


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 4, 2012)

Well cool man glad you are working things out and crossing the hurdles of this build. Can't wait to see it finished.


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## m1dg3t (Sep 4, 2012)

Nice project! Care to sell the 865 Conroe? I have an e5200 & x850xt PE collecting dust


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## cdawall (Sep 4, 2012)

So I just helped someone else out with the nforce3 in windows 7/vista issue. There are beta 64bit drivers out there for nforce 3 that allowed me to run my dfi s754 nforce3 board in windows 7 64bit.


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## TRWOV (Sep 4, 2012)

cdawall said:


> So I just helped someone else out with the nforce3 in windows 7/vista issue. There are beta 64bit drivers out there for nforce 3 that allowed me to run my dfi s754 nforce3 board in windows 7 64bit.



Where? I have an HD4670 AGP that could use a new home


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## Mindweaver (Sep 4, 2012)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> Now I am under the impression that Agp and multi core cpu's especially Amd's don't play nice together. I am curious on to how you are going to remedy this. Also I am not seeing support for the proc you want to use for the board you listed.



I didn't have any problems with my 4CoreDual-SATA2 paired with a C2D E6400 and a BFG 7800gs agp card.  I think he'll do fine with this build. Didn't amd release the dual core optimizer to help this problem anyway?
*
EDIT: I miss that old 7800gs.. lol I got it from best buy.. I had a $250 in store credit and the BFG 7800gs was $389.. hehehe So, I picked it up and was not disappointed.. That card blow away my current 9800pro.. hehehe*


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## MaxAwesome (Sep 4, 2012)

This is a nice project! But... wouldn't the ultimate AGP system roll with an HD 3870 instead of a 3850? 

Anyway, I'm curious... is there a special reason why AGP and multicore CPUs don't play well together?


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## Mindweaver (Sep 4, 2012)

MaxAwesome said:


> This is a nice project! But... wouldn't the ultimate AGP system roll with an HD 3870 instead of a 3850?
> 
> Anyway, I'm curious... is there a special reason why AGP and multicore CPUs don't play well together?



They never made a 3870 agp card. There were talks about it, but it never seen the light of day. A 3850 is pretty much a waste on agp anyway... The pci-e variant was a lot faster.
*
EDIT: Plus, I believe the fastest agp card is the HD4670, but the 3850 and 4670 are neck and neck.*


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## TRWOV (Sep 4, 2012)

MaxAwesome said:


> This is a nice project! But... wouldn't the ultimate AGP system roll with an HD 3870 instead of a 3850?
> 
> Anyway, I'm curious... is there a special reason why AGP and multicore CPUs don't play well together?



There's no 3870 AGP. Still the 3850 Iceq3 Turbo comes pretty close and it's very OCable. Mine gets to 824/1197 0.974v (stock is 720/940 1.174v)

The multicore issue is because there aren't 64bit GART drivers for nforce3


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## _JP_ (Sep 4, 2012)

Glad you had that sorted out, Jayzilla. i await more developments.


Mindweaver said:


> I believe the fastest agp card is the HD4670, but the 3850 and 4670 are neck and neck.[/B]


Depends on the screen resolution and game, tbh.


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## cdawall (Sep 4, 2012)

TRWOV said:


> Where? I have an HD4670 AGP that could use a new home



I have a copy on my flash drive. No idea if it has 64 bit GART drivers I might have used XP 64 bit drivers...


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## Mindweaver (Sep 4, 2012)

_JP_ said:


> Glad you had that sorted out, Jayzilla. i await more developments.
> 
> Depends on the screen resolution and game, tbh.



Like I said they were so close in performance that it was pretty much a wash... The 4670 had 1gb ram clocked at 1600mhz and the 3850 had 512mb at 1400mhz, but the 4670 had a 128-bit Memory Interface and the 3850 had a 256-bit Memory Interface. Both used GDDR3 memory. All I'm saying is that one could argue that the HD4670 was the fastest.. I just threw it out there just for reference. My nephew still games on a HD3850 pci-e card I gave him and it amazes me.. hehehe It still plays current games fairly well. I just bought him AC:II and Just cause 2. It plays all of his steam games except RAGE..


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## cdawall (Sep 4, 2012)

If everyone wants the 64 bit GART driver the XP 64 bit one works but you have to hack vista or 7 to accept unsigned drivers.

http://downloads.guru3d.com/nVidia-nForce-6.25-Windows-64-bit-download-919.html

I attached audio/lan/SB drivers that are signed.


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## TRWOV (Sep 4, 2012)

If that works then I've got another AGP system to build


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## _JP_ (Sep 4, 2012)

Mindweaver said:


> Like I said they were so close in performance that it was pretty much a wash... The 4670 had 1gb ram clocked at 1600mhz and the 3850 had 512mb at 1400mhz, but the 4670 had a 128-bit Memory Interface and the 3850 had a 256-bit Memory Interface. Both used GDDR3 memory. All I'm saying is that one could argue that the HD4670 was the fastest.. I just threw it out there just for reference. My nephew still games on a HD3850 pci-e card I gave him and it amazes me.. hehehe It still plays current games fairly well. I just bought him AC:II and Just cause 2. It plays all of his steam games except RAGE..


Yes, I also consider the HD 4670 to be better, but because it consumes way less than the 3850. 
Performance-wise...yep, they're pretty much the same.


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## TRWOV (Sep 4, 2012)

For benchmarks the 3850 would be better. I get around 2500 extra 3dmarks from an HD4670 -> HD3850.

My Octanux rig tops at 12418 in 3dmark06.


Plus, I don't know about any HD4670 waterblock


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## Mindweaver (Sep 5, 2012)

_JP_ said:


> Yes, I also consider the HD 4670 to be better, but because it consumes way less than the 3850.
> Performance-wise...yep, they're pretty much the same.



yea buddy I didn't even think about the power savings. Power savings the 4670 hands down. 




TRWOV said:


> For benchmarks the 3850 would be better. I get around 2500 extra 3dmarks from an HD4670 -> HD3850.
> 
> My Octanux rig tops at 12418 in 3dmark06.
> 
> ...



yea, overclocking wise with water the 3850 would win due to it being a performance card and the fact they made water blocks for it.


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## cdawall (Sep 5, 2012)

TRWOV said:


> For benchmarks the 3850 would be better. I get around 2500 extra 3dmarks from an HD4670 -> HD3850.
> 
> My Octanux rig tops at 12418 in 3dmark06.
> 
> ...



Do like I did with my 470 full cover heatsink and gpu block. They have standard ati mounting holes.


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## TRWOV (Sep 5, 2012)

Really? Do you have the specific model?

Heck, if jayzilla confirms the drivers as working then I might be in luck with my 939A8X-M  There are drivers for XP64 but of course they don't work in W7.


<hijack thread>
Solaris, your bios modding offering was serious? I would like some help with the Conroe865PE bios... 
</hijack thread>


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## b1gt1m (Sep 5, 2012)

*Conroe Blues*

Hiya, Im new on here, I joined after finding this topic as you do... Well, I gotta a big headache, maybe you can help/advise me? I've just completed a system build which consists of : intel Q6600 SLACR (G0) CPU - ASRock Conroe865PE MB - 2 x Kingston KTM-M50/1Gb RAM  Modules - Sapphire HD3850 AGP Gfx Card - Creative Labs Audigy Sound Card - PowerCool GT 700w PSU with dual 12v rails rated at 22A each! PHEW! Now when I turn on the system with both RAM in dual channel config I get a blank screen, when i put them in single channel mode the POST appears and I can get into the bios, change things, etc. Also, when I try to boot off the HDD, I get BSOD's so try to boot off Windows DVD an run setup but same again or just reboots. I tried running with 1 stick of RAM in there but same symptoms... any ideas as Im fresh out!!  Bear in mind that Ive completely stripped an rebuilt this system 3 times today an im getting a bit desperate...

Thanx in advance


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## b1gt1m (Sep 5, 2012)

*By the way*

The BIOS is P1.70. and its showing correct RAM speeds, size etc and the CPU is showing correct type, model, speed, etc.


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## Jayzilla (Sep 5, 2012)

b1gt1m said:


> Hiya, Im new on here, I joined after finding this topic as you do... Well, I gotta a big headache, maybe you can help/advise me? I've just completed a system build which consists of : intel Q6600 SLACR (G0) CPU - ASRock Conroe865PE MB - 2 x Kingston KTM-M50/1Gb RAM  Modules - Sapphire HD3850 AGP Gfx Card - Creative Labs Audigy Sound Card - PowerCool GT 700w PSU with dual 12v rails rated at 22A each! PHEW! Now when I turn on the system with both RAM in dual channel config I get a blank screen, when i put them in single channel mode the POST appears and I can get into the bios, change things, etc. Also, when I try to boot off the HDD, I get BSOD's so try to boot off Windows DVD an run setup but same again or just reboots. I tried running with 1 stick of RAM in there but same symptoms... any ideas as Im fresh out!!  Bear in mind that Ive completely stripped an rebuilt this system 3 times today an im getting a bit desperate...
> 
> Thanx in advance





b1gt1m said:


> The BIOS is P1.70. and its showing correct RAM speeds, size etc and the CPU is showing correct type, model, speed, etc.



Hi b1gt1m!

Welcome to my work-log. Not meant to be rude. This thread is about my project and maybe some issues relate to it. I’m trying to showcase my works while makes it as an entertainment. I would start a thread in an appropriate section if I have problems or questions about my rig. If you having issues with your HD3850 there is a forum for it: 

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50040

I’ve learned so much in there I’m sure many members on TPU would help you out. Thanks buddy.


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## b1gt1m (Sep 5, 2012)

Aye! No probs - Im outta here!


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## TRWOV (Sep 6, 2012)

Jayzilla, do you already have a NB block?

Found this: http://www.evercool.com.tw/install/instal_wc_nothbridge.htm


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## Jayzilla (Sep 6, 2012)

TRWOV said:


> Jayzilla, do you already have a NB block?
> 
> Found this: http://www.evercool.com.tw/install/instal_wc_nothbridge.htm



Yes. I have a Swiftech MCW30 block. Visual is a priority in this project. I want to match all the color of the blocks. So it takes time to collects the parts.

I have that block too. It's a bad design block. It only compatible with their own brand products. You need a pair of hose clamps if you use others 3/8 tubing. 

I will try to have some updates tonight about the driver cdawall provided. This is exciting. 

Cheers


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## Phusius (Sep 6, 2012)

This is the best topic I have come across in awhile.  I remember in the 8th grade installing my first AGP card in my Dad's old piece of crap Compaq PC so I could play Warcraft 3 xD


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## TRWOV (Sep 6, 2012)

I was cruisin for parts on eBay and found out that a 3.4 Prescott goes for $19 shipped  heck, shouldn't have sold my old AiW X800XT... I miss it now


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## Jayzilla (Sep 6, 2012)

m1dg3t said:


> Nice project! Care to sell the 865 Conroe? I have an e5200 & x850xt PE collecting dust



Sure. PMed. I would love to see someone reuse the old parts. Dual core with a decent AGP is nice.



Mindweaver said:


> I didn't have any problems with my 4CoreDual-SATA2 paired with a C2D E6400 and a BFG 7800gs agp card.  I think he'll do fine with this build. Didn't amd release the dual core optimizer to help this problem anyway?
> *
> EDIT: I miss that old 7800gs.. lol I got it from best buy.. I had a $250 in store credit and the BFG 7800gs was $389.. hehehe So, I picked it up and was not disappointed.. That card blow away my current 9800pro.. hehehe*



The 7 series AGP from Nvidia was considered top-notch. I owned all the 7800GS ever existed. Including two different legendary Golden Sample from Gainward. That was my good old days.



Mindweaver said:


> They never made a 3870 agp card. There were talks about it, but it never seen the light of day. A 3850 is pretty much a waste on agp anyway... The pci-e variant was a lot faster.
> *
> EDIT: Plus, I believe the fastest agp card is the HD4670, but the 3850 and 4670 are neck and neck.*





_JP_ said:


> Depends on the screen resolution and game, tbh.





_JP_ said:


> Yes, I also consider the HD 4670 to be better, but because it consumes way less than the 3850.
> Performance-wise...yep, they're pretty much the same.



The performance between HD3850 and HD4670 is really controversy. They are not always the winners. There are many factors to determine the performance like CPUs, chipset, benchmarking software and games. Sometimes the Nvidia beats all the Radeon cards in 2D apps. Sometimes the X series wins and sometimes they do better in some particular CPUs. I had a benchmark data file for over 50 high-end AGP but the computer got stolen last year. TRWOV should know better because he got many retro systems.The HD4670 beats HD3850 in heat and power consumption for sure. In my current system the HD3850 Iceq3 Turbo is the boss.









Phusius said:


> This is the best topic I have come across in awhile.  I remember in the 8th grade installing my first AGP card in my Dad's old piece of crap Compaq PC so I could play Warcraft 3 xD



Thanks. I had my first AGP card pretty late. It was super expensive back in the days.



cdawall said:


> So I just helped someone else out with the nforce3 in windows 7/vista issue. There are beta 64bit drivers out there for nforce 3 that allowed me to run my dfi s754 nforce3 board in windows 7 64bit.





TRWOV said:


> Heck, if jayzilla confirms the drivers as working then I might be in luck with my 939A8X-M  There are drivers for XP64 but of course they don't work in W7.



Sure. I'll be the white mice first.
The drivers doesn't seem to works. I got a blue screen of death during the restart. It happens so fast I couldn't read it. 










So I've only installed the GART and SMBus driver and the reboot was fine. I just tried this on XP-64bit. I haven't try it on W7. Here is the official page (dead). 





Somethings still wrong.

I've also found this forum : http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/nforce-drivers-f28.html
I'm not sure it helps on our issues but take a look if you have the time. I want to focus on my current hardware because I can pick the OS on the very last. I will come back for it and I  might get two SSD and RAID them up if Windows 7 is an option for me. Man, I have so much to do in here.


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## t_ski (Sep 6, 2012)

Jayzilla said:


> The drivers doesn't seem to works. I got a blue screen of death during the restart. It happens so fast I couldn't read it.


You'll need to disable automatic restarts to get the error code, or look in the event logs to see if you can find it there.


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## puma99dk| (Sep 6, 2012)

nice build to start with, but if it was me i would have taken that 7950GT if i am not wrong and use that it was a nice card for AGP at it's time.


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## TRWOV (Sep 9, 2012)

The 7950GT was about on par with the X1950PRO. The 3850 has 2x the performance of those.


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## Solaris17 (Sep 10, 2012)

sorry! i havent checked back. unfortunetely the bios update was an example. for the OS problems or something microcode related the bios will not help. as for the missing PCI device get the hardware ID and google to see what it wants? 

also try and stress 3d i see GPUz isnt displaying it right thats probably because of the "built" driver. and the missing piece. but if you can find the hardware ID then you can probably remod the INI with one that does have the info and get it to show up. but practice makes perfect and these ideas are all better if you attempt it with windows 7 or rather the final OS/of choice. because windows xp 64 wasnt ever that stable to begin with.


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## Krazy Owl (Sep 11, 2012)

Just for information there is a 4670 AGP 1gig ddr3 at 1780mhz. It's the top notch of the IceQ they made with the cooler as in the 3850 picture of the OP.


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## xBruce88x (Sep 11, 2012)

Hopefully that "pci device" isn't the pci-e to agp bridge chip. not sure where you'd get software for that, except the manufacturers card drivers. I think that's why its "agp8x @ pci" but i'm not completely sure... here's the files from HIS, you have to click the little blue arrows to download.

http://www.hisdigital.com/us/download1-358.shtml

hmm... interesting... the 3850 has twice the texture power of the 4670 and better memory bandwidth, yet the 4670 has about twice the pixel fillrate power. tough choice.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 11, 2012)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> Now I am under the impression that Agp and multi core cpu's especially Amd's don't play nice together. I am curious on to how you are going to remedy this. Also I am not seeing support for the proc you want to use for the board you listed.



it is an Nvidia Driver Issue actually.

here is a possible solution for NF2/NF3 users with Windows 7 and a Dual Core CPU

http://www.sevenforums.com/graphic-cards/13935-x1950-agp-nforce3-x2-athlon-4000-problem.html


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## TRWOV (Sep 12, 2012)

xBruce88x said:


> Hopefully that "pci device" isn't the pci-e to agp bridge chip. not sure where you'd get software for that, except the manufacturers card drivers. I think that's why its "agp8x @ pci" but i'm not completely sure... here's the files from HIS, you have to click the little blue arrows to download.
> 
> http://www.hisdigital.com/us/download1-358.shtml
> 
> hmm... interesting... the 3850 has twice the texture power of the 4670 and better memory bandwidth, yet the 4670 has about twice the pixel fillrate power. tough choice.



What's missing from the nforce3 drivers is a proper GART driver. Without it the AGP port functions as a PCI port.


Based on my experience (I own both) the 4670 runs neck and neck with the 3850 at stock settings. The sweet spot for both is 1680x1050; at that res their performance is practically the same. Above that the 4670 gets a slight edge because of its 1GB of VRAM and at lower resolutions the 3850 256bit bus shows its force... if only there was a 1GB 3850 

In games with high lots of textures (Oblivion) the 4670 wins even at lower resolutions too.

Still, the overcloking headroom is higher with the 3850 (mine runs 824/1197 0.974v and I've seen reports of 837Mhz). With the 4670 I only managed a 30Mhz overclock. I think that the voltage regulation circuitry is what makes that possible on the 3850 as it was a high end part at its time.


----------



## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 12, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> it is an Nvidia Driver Issue actually.
> 
> here is a possible solution for NF2/NF3 users with Windows 7 and a Dual Core CPU
> 
> http://www.sevenforums.com/graphic-cards/13935-x1950-agp-nforce3-x2-athlon-4000-problem.html



That would be Nf3/Nf4 wouldn't it. Primarily Nf4. Nf2 was socket a. 

The system I built not long ago that was Nf4 based s939 wouldn't even install the os without issues. Hell half the time I couldn't even get it to boot with the Ati hd card in it. I had to swap it out for a Nvidia card and got it stable with it.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 12, 2012)

NF4 was PCIE

NF2/3 was AGP

NF3 was also PCI E

Win 7 gaming runs like crap without a Proper GART from NV- like they had for XP.



ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> That would be Nf3/Nf4 wouldn't it. Primarily Nf4. Nf2 was socket a.
> 
> The system I built not long ago that was Nf4 based s939 wouldn't even install the os without issues. Hell half the time I couldn't even get it to boot with the Ati hd card in it. I had to swap it out for a Nvidia card and got it stable with it.
> 
> ...


----------



## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 12, 2012)

Nf4 didn't have much love either from Nvidia for Vista or 7 did it?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 12, 2012)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> Nf4 didn't have much love either from Nvidia for Vista or 7 did it?



They had a Vista driver but no 7 driver- so technically the vista driver should work in 7, but for AGP there is no driver at all.

A Vista driver works for my GC in 7 but without a proper GART the machine has to be XP only.


----------



## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 12, 2012)

Cool thanks man. Both of the s939 boards I have are Nf4, so no agp to worry about. I may try and dig up the win vista driver for them. Right now the one is just gathering dust until I can come up with a low profile gpu for it and the other one is crunching under Linux. Ubuntu has no problem with these boards. And the one I built with Agp I also ended up running Linux on it as the os without issues.


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## TRWOV (Sep 12, 2012)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> Trwov I have been waiting for you to finish this thing like a kid a Christmas waiting to open presents. Keep up the great work man .




Wrong thread???  I think you want to go here: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161350


----------



## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 12, 2012)

Damn your right. I just seen your post in here so many time I though it was yours. Let me correct that. 

But I was meaning for that to be in your thread as I have been following along on your Green tea rig. And I do like what you have done so far.


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## TRWOV (Sep 12, 2012)

:lol: Well, I also have a sort of Ultimate AGP rig too. I think we could run a deathmatch once he is done


----------



## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 12, 2012)

TRWOV said:


> :lol: Well, I also have a sort of Ultimate AGP rig too. I think we could run a deathmatch once he is done



Not sure how he will fair against that FX60. lol


----------



## TRWOV (Sep 12, 2012)

I mean my QX6800 rig but yeah, why not? let's throw the FX60 in there too


----------



## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 12, 2012)

heh then he might as well just start licking wounds now LOL


----------



## de.das.dude (Sep 12, 2012)

sub


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## nasospakos (Sep 13, 2012)

Great thread Jayzilla,

I've learned quite a few things while I was reading this. As it seems there are no possible solutions for this hardware combination. Let's hope that this Bios moder is going to arrive very soon! 

Long live AGP!!!


----------



## Jayzilla (Sep 14, 2012)

puma99dk| said:


> nice build to start with, but if it was me i would have taken that 7950GT if i am not wrong and use that it was a nice card for AGP at it's time.



If I ever wanted to build another AGP rig. Intel quady and 7950GT would be my choices, but I doubt it would beat my current system. 



Krazy Owl said:


> Just for information there is a 4670 AGP 1gig ddr3 at 1780mhz. It's the top notch of the IceQ they made with the cooler as in the 3850 picture of the OP.



Do you have any info or link for the card you referred? To my knowledge there is only the X series had the same cooler as my HD3850. It doesn’t make sense if the HD4670 has that cooler because the card is much shorter. 



TRWOV said:


> :lol: Well, I also have a sort of Ultimate AGP rig too. I think we could run a deathmatch once he is done



TRWOV. You know what. I can’t wait for that! See if my AMD and DDR2 would help my HD3850 beats your W/O OC. 



de.das.dude said:


> sub



Thanks!



nasospakos said:


> Great thread Jayzilla,
> 
> I've learned quite a few things while I was reading this. As it seems there are no possible solutions for this hardware combination. Let's hope that this Bios moder is going to arrive very soon!
> 
> Long live AGP!!!



Yeah. Look at these guys. They are very knowledgeable about PC hardware. We are the most passionate/active players especially on old parts and only on TPU. No kidding.



t_ski said:


> You'll need to disable automatic restarts to get the error code, or look in the event logs to see if you can find it there.





Solaris17 said:


> sorry! i havent checked back. unfortunetely the bios update was an example. for the OS problems or something microcode related the bios will not help. as for the missing PCI device get the hardware ID and google to see what it wants?
> 
> also try and stress 3d i see GPUz isnt displaying it right thats probably because of the "built" driver. and the missing piece. but if you can find the hardware ID then you can probably remod the INI with one that does have the info and get it to show up. but practice makes perfect and these ideas are all better if you attempt it with windows 7 or rather the final OS/of choice. because windows xp 64 wasnt ever that stable to begin with.





xBruce88x said:


> Hopefully that "pci device" isn't the pci-e to agp bridge chip. not sure where you'd get software for that, except the manufacturers card drivers. I think that's why its "agp8x @ pci" but i'm not completely sure... here's the files from HIS, you have to click the little blue arrows to download.
> 
> 
> hmm... interesting... the 3850 has twice the texture power of the 4670 and better memory bandwidth, yet the 4670 has about twice the pixel fillrate power. tough choice.





eidairaman1 said:


> it is an Nvidia Driver Issue actually.
> 
> here is a possible solution for NF2/NF3 users with Windows 7 and a Dual Core CPU
> 
> http://www.sevenforums.com/graphic-cards/13935-x1950-agp-nforce3-x2-athlon-4000-problem.html



The issue I got seems more complicated than I thought. There is a lot I haven’t tried and the time I have is limited. I browsed through a few NF3 forums and haven’t seemed a solid evident claimed that’s works. I’m agreeing with Solaris17. Windows XP 64bit wasn’t a stable platform for old apps and hardware. Is that really a big deal for this rig to runs modern OS? 
These bother me because I have to pick between 4GB and 8GB of DDR2 for my OS. The RAM I pick is related to my water-cooling plans (Aluminum/copper mixed). So a right decision has to be made in the end, but I’m not giving up of trying WinXP64 and W7. I just need more time to experience the issues.
















I have to admit. I’m always a big fan of OCZ Flex. Back in the days OCZ used to make best DDR/DDR2 in term of price and performance. I bet we are all had OCZ parts in the past. Sadly they don’t produce memory anymore more but crappy SSD and PSU. 

I had a thread somewhere about water cooling corrosion. They are the main part in this concern. If I’m succeed on 64-bit platform. These guys will be on my systems. They are 4X2GB DDR2. They are also the fastest Flex EX I can get. The down side of them is they are pure aluminum. OCZ claims the cooler is anodized but not the barb. The best part of these guys is I can clean the path if they got corroded. So there are some risks I have to take in here, and yes. I WANT OCZ FLEX for this project.










These guys are 4X1GB DDR2. Ideally they are for 32-bit OS or the replacement for the Flex EX if they are corroded. They has copper path but the nipples are aluminum and I can’t dissemble the module 






Of course OCZ Flex is not the only choice I have. There is also Corsair Dominator GT CMG4GX2M2A1066C5. Yes. They are DDR2 and they are real. Even through not much people acknowledge their existence. Tons of copper blocks out there for the Dominator GT. Galvanic corrosion shouldn’t be an issue anymore if I had them. Let me know if you own them and wanted a human wearing Tyrannosaurus  costume for you to ride!

Current status: Reviewing the W120 hyper-heatsink.
What's next? Yeah, that cooler.

Cheers


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 14, 2012)

Since you do have a non nv based motherboard you shouldnt run into man issues because unlike NV. ULI/SIS/VIA released a Proper AGP GART for Vista.


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 14, 2012)

Isn't his board a nf3 board?


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 14, 2012)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> Isn't his board a nf3 board?



umph.  i just re-read his specs and ya he has a NF3 250 board.

thx man 

Jayzilla you would have to run XP64 to work right

http://www.asrock.com/mb/NVIDIA/AM2NF3-VSTA/?cat=Download&os=All


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 15, 2012)

No prblem man I tough my brain was going into shut down for a second intil I went back and reread to make sure I was right.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 15, 2012)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> No prblem man I tough my brain was going into shut down for a second intil I went back and reread to make sure I was right.



AsRocks labeling was confusing back in the day


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## Krazy Owl (Sep 15, 2012)

http://www.hisdigital.com/ca/product2-448.shtml

almost the same but not the same. This card is exactly what I have.


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## TRWOV (Sep 15, 2012)

That's the IceQ, pure aluminium. The IceQ3 is made of copper.


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## Krazy Owl (Sep 15, 2012)

Anyway this card rocks !  HDMI port so I can have a backup rig with power to be used for gaming and HTPC


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## Jayzilla (Sep 16, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> umph.  i just re-read his specs and ya he has a NF3 250 board.
> 
> thx man
> 
> ...



I don't know man. I got a quote from Jstn7477:

"XP x86, multicore: Works with everything. AMD's drivers work but kind of suck.
XP x64, multicore: Works with everything, but no AGP texture acceleration (almost as bad as PCI mode)
Vista/7 32/64 multicore: NVIDIA cards run in PCI mode, ATI cards with PCIe to AGP bridges will not run drivers at all."

He's been right all along. The only hope I have is the 64-bit GART dirver cdawall provided. I need to try it again and see what I can do with it.



eidairaman1 said:


> AsRocks labeling was confusing back in the day



I'm sure we can clear out everything in the end of this work-log. 



Krazy Owl said:


> Anyway this card rocks !  HDMI port so I can have a backup rig with power to be used for gaming and HTPC



Yeah. HDMI definitely is a big plus for an AGP. This why the HD4670 is the most powerful card and still on production. Here is a look for the coolers.






P.S: The hot chick became a owl now?


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## TRWOV (Sep 16, 2012)

What's that? An X1650?


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 16, 2012)

The Cooler of the SHorter card has been around since the Radeon 9700 Series. so that design is 10+ years old now (Works well for what cards need)




Jayzilla said:


> I don't know man. I got a quote from Jstn7477:
> 
> "XP x86, multicore: Works with everything. AMD's drivers work but kind of suck.
> XP x64, multicore: Works with everything, but no AGP texture acceleration (almost as bad as PCI mode)
> ...


----------



## Jayzilla (Sep 17, 2012)

*PCCooler OC3 W120 hybrid cooler.*

I first saw this unique cooler on TPU a year ago. My thought was “I got to have that”. 
http://www.techpowerup.com/147218/P...s-Tower-Type-Air-Cooler-with-Water-Block.html
It took over two months all the way from China to get here. My friend told me it could be only transport by boat because of the market trading issue between China and U.S. Its Apple products related too…I don’t really understand but anyways. 

There are a few reviews out there for this item by the Chinese people. Most of the comments are positive and I’ve learned different region has different hardware quality standards .Today I will do a “half” review as a progressive DIY liquid cooling user.




































Did you notice all the chalklike powder substance on the cooler surface? Yeah, they are all over the package and very annoying. I’m guessing they are from the metal cutting machine.











Here is a comparison with the ThermalRight IFX-14. The W120 is heavier and the fins are thicker plus uneven. 






The fan gives me a cheap plastic feel. The quality is terrible.





® S #@%











So one of the reasons I’m facing Galvanic corrosion issue is because of this cooler. They didn’t have much info about the materials of the cooler from the label, but 500W cooling capacity! That is lots of cooling power. So how cool is 500W? An high-end passive cooler from Artic Cooling offers 320W. So what size of the tubing, reservoir, any extra radiator? What kind of pump(s) to achieve 500W of cooling capacity? From the pictures when we first saw it. Seem like they used a D5 and dual 120MM radiator. If they got the 500W from that setup, that is not really an impression.











Broken parts.  I’m expected it to happens.





















Corrosion in a brand new block? Or maybe just some cocaine. It is from the barbs module. 











Okie. I'm done.
That's right. I'm done dissemble the block. Look at that nasty stuff! I do not want them inside my loop. Not even my testing loop. Yes, I can wash them off but it's a failed design cooler. I can't unscrew the based (bad screws position). I can’t see how the block is constructed. I don’t have visual of the inside. So I’m not going to mount it on my rig.

Conclusion

You must be disappointed that you can’t see it got mounted and running with water. I’m disappointed too! The craftsmanship of this cooler is absolutely horrible. I can’t think of any good things but negative comments for this hybrid cooler. I mean I bought this for a fortune and knowing it is a piece of junk. It just not worth my time to mount and test it. I really like the concept of it. If it was made by Swiftech or Thermalright there is great innovative cooling potential. There is still a long way for PCCooler to get into liquid cooling industrial and have a stand in the U.S markets. Now I know why their products are "exclusively" sold in the Asian markets. 

This might not be a full good review. I have limited in words for English, my apology . I do not think it is necessary to give this cooler a rating since my priority here is finishing up the build. I’d give review to the parts I actually use on my project. This unit will be replace with any AMD block or Swiftech Apogee Drive II.

What is next?
Since we are having a 64bit GART driver topic earlier. I see lots of helpful suggestions so I want to clear out my OS choices. I will make a 4GB or 8GB DDR2 decision after this. 

Cheers


----------



## Jayzilla (Sep 17, 2012)

TRWOV said:


> What's that? An X1650?



Yes. You got it, sir.



eidairaman1 said:


> The Cooler of the SHorter card has been around since the Radeon 9700 Series. so that design is 10+ years old now (Works well for what cards need)



10+ years design cooler and works efficiently. Without a doubt HIS made best cooler for AGP video cards. 

For durability and looks of the heatsink. I think I like copper over aluminum, but for the weight. Aluminum sure win. Don't know about the cooling performance.


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## de.das.dude (Sep 17, 2012)

dude. its china. their stuff is pathetic. those people with reviews were probably paid to write good stuff. once a chinese company asked me to do a similar thing in exchange for their products.
the thing was i was supposed to write a good review before i got the product.

f*&^%cking chinese mothe^%kers


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## nasospakos (Sep 19, 2012)

The only thing we know for sure up till now is that anyone still can install Windows Vista or 7 or even 8 on an AGP + nForce 3 + multi-core motherboard but only if all cores are disabled down to one. 

I am using my Gigabyte HD 4650 AGP with Windows 8 at the moment and the acceleration is enabled though I can't play any new games because my system works with only one core enabled. It is a tough problem indeed. You must choose graphics acceleration or multi-core support yet both of them no way. 

If we found the solution to this, I would say ancient, issue we are probably going to win a Nobel price.

P.S: By the way, cdawall's beta XP64 nForce drivers didn't work for me on Win 7 environment but I'm not sure if I did the installation correctly. I was too confused that day.


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## niubreed (Oct 31, 2012)

*Hi*

Hi everyone and especially to TS,

this thread made me create account at TPU forum.
have some of 3850 AGP. but still can not find a good match with other component.

waiting and seeing updates from you..

thanks and cheers


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## TRWOV (Oct 31, 2012)

Best combos for HD3850 AGP:


Asrock Conroe865PE + 4GB DDR400 CL2.5 RAM + Core 2 Quad. I can OC my board to 285FSB but I've seen reports of people reaching 300FSB on this board (YMMV). I currently have a QX6800 on mine but I can't take it beyond 3.1Ghz, I think I'm being limited by the board having only 4 power phases. The advantage is that the 865PE chipset has full 64bit support on Windows 7.
Note: the DDR400 CL2.5 RAM is a requirement for Core 2 support. If you use CL3 RAM you'll get constant crashes.


AM2NF3-VSTA + Phenom II X4 AM3 + 4GB DDR2-800. This build would be limited to XP 32bit because there are no 64bit GART drivers for nForce3 boards.

There are more boards that support dual and quad cores with AGP slots but they only have 2 RAM slots so you'd be limited to 2GB of RAM.


----------



## niubreed (Oct 31, 2012)

TRWOV said:


> Best combos for HD3850 AGP:
> 
> 
> Asrock Conroe865PE + 4GB DDR400 CL2.5 RAM + Core 2 Quad. I can OC my board to 285FSB but I've seen reports of people reaching 300FSB on this board (YMMV). I currently have a QX6800 on mine but I can't take it beyond 3.1Ghz, I think I'm being limited by the board having only 4 power phases. The advantage is that the 865PE chipset has full 64bit support on Windows 7.
> ...



hi TRWOV,
thanks for your respond. i've been following some of your posts, and yes looks like you are the AGP system Guru  nice. learn much from you.
appreciate also for TS with his project log.

and yes Conroe865PE is my current top of mind. still trying to find this board also.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 31, 2012)

That be a waste of money then. just.like shoving a agp 3.0 card in a agp 2.0 slot and running it at 2x  only!.



nasospakos said:


> The only thing we know for sure up till now is that anyone still can install Windows Vista or 7 or even 8 on an AGP + nForce 3 + multi-core motherboard but only if all cores are disabled down to one.
> 
> I am using my Gigabyte HD 4650 AGP with Windows 8 at the moment and the acceleration is enabled though I can't play any new games because my system works with only one core enabled. It is a tough problem indeed. You must choose graphics acceleration or multi-core support yet both of them no way.
> 
> ...


----------



## ian (Nov 16, 2012)

Tell, please, one more time for acknowledgement: can I install hd3850agp drivers on XP64bit with mobo am2nf3-vsta or the only solution is XP32bit?

CPU is athlon 64 x2 4400+


----------



## TRWOV (Nov 16, 2012)

ian said:


> Tell, please, one more time for acknowledgement: can I install hd3850agp drivers on XP64bit with mobo am2nf3-vsta or the only solution is XP32bit?
> 
> CPU is athlon 64 x2 4400+



I'll work but you'll lose AGP texture acceleration (horrid!). Basically it'll be unsuitable for games so stick to XP 32 for the time being, blame nVidia for not providing a proper 64bit GART driver for multicore systems.


----------



## ian (Nov 16, 2012)

No way! Life without textures seems like selfdecieve.
And what if to downgrade CPU to singlecore (but still 64bit)?
I know there is official info - 





> If you adopt Single Core CPU on this motherboard, this motherboard can support ATi™ and NVIDIA® AGP cards


 But I wanna be 100% sure because I've screwed up once (I mean bought am2nf3 :shadedshu)


----------



## TRWOV (Nov 16, 2012)

Single core will work fine but then you'll be bottlenecking that HD3850. There's no win-win scenario.


----------



## ian (Nov 16, 2012)

OK. Maybe the overall situation should be highlighted.
Initially I had:
1) Sapphire HD3850AGP;
2) 2 x Goodram DDR2-800 4096MB PC2-6400 (GR800D264L6/4G);
3) Zalman ZM600-ST (bought it long ago; it is the worst PSU I've ever seen for its money!)

So recently I've purchased AM2NF3 and I need any x64 OS.

To be honest, I have another one desktop with msi z77a-gd65 mobo, i5 quadcore CPU and msi N670 PE 2GD5/OC video

But I still need that old AGP stuff working properly...


----------



## ian (Nov 16, 2012)

I've just found used athlon LE-1640 (ADH1640IAA4DP) for $18 

I will report about the total system perfomance after I finish assembly.

Thanks for help a lot


----------



## 3870x2 (Nov 16, 2012)

So what happened to the Ultimate AGP build?


----------



## TRWOV (Nov 16, 2012)

ian said:


> OK. Maybe the overall situation should be highlighted.
> Initially I had:
> 1) Sapphire HD3850AGP;
> 2) 2 x Goodram DDR2-800 4096MB PC2-6400 (GR800D264L6/4G);
> ...





OK, with your setup:

XP 32 - works fine
XP 64 - works but no AGP texture acceleration
W7 32/64 - works but you won't be able to install drivers for the HD3850 due to the bridge chip. Native ATI AGP cards will work as well as Nvidia native and bridged cards but in PCI mode (unusable for games at more than 800x600 or you'll run into bandwith issues).







Chalk this one up to nvidia shenanigans. They left nforce, ULi and Ageia users in the dust


----------



## ian (Nov 16, 2012)

TRWOV said:


> OK, with your setup:
> 
> XP 32 - works fine
> XP 64 - works but no AGP texture acceleration
> W7 32/64 - works but you won't be able to install drivers for the HD3850 due to the bridge chip. Native ATI AGP cards will work as well as Nvidia native and bridged cards but in PCI mode (unusable for games at more than 800x600 or you'll run into bandwith issues).



Is it with single core cpu??


----------



## TRWOV (Nov 16, 2012)

Multicore. Single core will work fine with any configuration, only the multicore CPUs have problems with the GART driver.


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 17, 2012)

TRWOV said:


> Multicore. Single core will work fine with any configuration, only the multicore CPUs have problems with the GART driver.



AMD Athlon 64 X2 (754, 939, 940), AMD/ATI Radeon Graphics Card AGP, Nvidia Nforce 3 Chipset AGP result in a Code 43 because of Motherboard GART issue.

AMD Athlon 64 doesnt exhibit this but there is no proper Vista or even 7 GART driver from NV for NF2 and 3 so performance is going to suck anyway.


----------



## ian (Nov 17, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> AMD Athlon 64 doesnt exhibit this but there is no proper Vista or even 7 GART driver from NV for NF2 and 3 so performance is going to suck anyway.



I know that.
But let me tell you something. My goal is to get fast AGP solution on ANY 64bit OS. In this case the only way out is AM2NF3. Certainly you can say: "Oh, man! There is several mobos running on Intel 865. You can paste Pentium4 and have the same velocity".

But you will be absolutely wrong. Even with Pentium D or Core2Duo such assembly sucks.
'cause using DDRI is a real bottleneck. I mean, all the power of CPU is faded by the slow rates of RAM data transfer. Furthermore data transfer between the RAM and AGP8x is also significantly reduces with DDRI.

More about P4.
Extreme lack of P4 is the pipeline structure: it consists of 20-25 stages (depending on architecture type) - horrable latency. Therefore, any dismiss in code causes branch prediction failure and total pipeline reload occurs. It takes not less the 127 clk to restart the pipeline!
And don't forget about high TDP of P4 - also significant disadvantage. 

6 years ago I had to write a part of critical code on asm connected with coding/decoding algorythm. It had to be universal for a quite vast number of intel CPU's starting from P4. The only processors we had problem with was P4... Because the code had to be so specificaly rewriten to omit branch prediction misunderstandings. Bad days.

So going back to the topic - fast AGP solution is the solution running DDRII.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 17, 2012)

I wasnt talking about the ram I was talking about the lack of a driver for a Specific High Performance Skt 754, 939, 940 chipset from NV!

From Looks it would appear Via K8T800 Pro and ULI 1689 would be the ideal choices for Skt 939 in order to have a Athlon 64 X2 and ATI video card together with the performance to boot.



ian said:


> I know that.
> But let me tell you something. My goal is to get fast AGP solution on ANY 64bit OS. In this case the only way out is AM2NF3. Certainly you can say: "Oh, man! There is several mobos running on Intel 865. You can paste Pentium4 and have the same velocity".
> 
> But you will be absolutely wrong. Even with Pentium D or Core2Duo such assembly sucks.
> ...


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## TRWOV (Nov 17, 2012)

ULi has the same problems as nforce. Right after buying ULi, nvidia halted all development. The last integrated drivers were 2.20.

ian, if you want the best you can get from the AM2NF3-VSTA you'll have to stick with XP32.

And 865 is no slouch, here are some benchmarks with my HD3850 on a 865 board: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2544510&postcount=949


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 17, 2012)

TRWOV said:


> ULi has the same problems as nforce. Right after buying ULi, nvidia halted all development. The last integrated drivers were 2.20.
> 
> ian, if you want the best you can get from the AM2NF3-VSTA you'll have to stick with XP32.
> 
> And 865 is no slouch, here are some benchmarks with my HD3850 on a 865 board: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2544510&postcount=949



those beta drivers should be compatible with win 7


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## ian (Nov 17, 2012)

*TRWOV*, seems quite impressive.

When I finish assembly (on next weekends I think) I'll upload my benchmark scores


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## ian (Nov 17, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> From Looks it would appear Via K8T800 Pro and ULI 1689 would be the ideal choices for Skt 939 in order to have a Athlon 64 X2 and ATI video card together with the performance to boot



Maybe. But it depends on tasks you're performing. If you use PC just like a work horse, your assembly is brilliant. If you want to watch films or play games, those require big portions of data to be buffered in RAM and transferred to CPU/VGA, then you need faster RAM and bus.

Are you agree?


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 17, 2012)

ian said:


> Maybe. But it depends on tasks you're performing. If you use PC just like a work horse, your assembly is brilliant. If you want to watch films or play games, those require big portions of data to be buffered in RAM and transferred to CPU/VGA, then you need faster RAM and bus.
> 
> Are you agree?



Erm BD movie watching or anything that has been encoded to other file formats can be watched on even a x1950 Pro AGP with the said above specs. Im not sure on my First rig because i dont own a BD Drive


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## ian (Nov 17, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> Erm BD movie watching or anything that has been encoded to other file formats can be watched on even a x1950 Pro AGP with the said above specs. Im not sure on my First rig because i dont own a BD Drive



FullHD movies are my passion and I know for sure that any hardware on DDRI causes slight frames losses every 5-10secs (according to buffer size set in codec). Even with Core2Duo. I'm speaking about films which weight above 16GB and when you watch them on big screen it is distinct and annoying. It describes the problem of big latency of DDRI.

Of course buffer size may be adjusted to minimum to have small and stable portions of data transferred and reduced latency. Despite, you'll have delays with processors video decoding -> less but more frequent fps losses.

Talking about high res video the bottleneck appears everything except VGA


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## TRWOV (Nov 17, 2012)

I've watched BDs on a 865 board and they play just fine. 775i65G + Pentium Dual Core E5800 @ 3.6Ghz + 2GB OCZ DDR400 CL2 RAM + HD4670 AGP (my old HTPC):


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## natr0n (Nov 18, 2012)

agp systems need to stick to windows xp 32bit. anything else is a highway to nowhere imo.


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## TRWOV (Nov 18, 2012)

Not necessarily. VIA and Intel chipsets work fine in W7 64bit. Nvidia left its users in the dust with no upgraded drivers. I've used W7 64bit on a 865 board (Conroe865PE) for about 2 years with 0 issues. My old HTPC ran on W7 64bit too..


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## xBruce88x (Nov 18, 2012)

I had pretty good luck with my AsRock 4CoreDual-VSTA. It had a VIA chipset. I remember I even ran it with a PentiumD, and agp card and a pci-e card at the same time with a couple of voodooIIs in SLI. When I first built the system I was running an ATI 9600XT with the PentiumD 2.8ghz and 1GB ram. I'm pretty sure I ran it with windows vista. I remember I first played CnC3 on it with the 9600xt and then upgrading to an 8600GT in the pcie slot and after that playing Lost Planet in dx10 mode. so i'm pretty sure I had vista to be able to play that game in dx10... I also remember having to deal with the constant driver shut downs until nvidia finally got a decent driver lol.

If my grandmother still has the rig (I changed it around a bit for her to use, also switched it over to a pentium dual-core e5300) I might borrow it and throw in an agp card and see how it works... though it may be quite some time before i'm able to do that... I might just get another 4coredual-vsta.


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## natr0n (Nov 20, 2012)

TRWOV said:


> Not necessarily. VIA and Intel chipsets work fine in W7 64bit. Nvidia left its users in the dust with no upgraded drivers. I've used W7 64bit on a 865 board (Conroe865PE) for about 2 years with 0 issues. My old HTPC ran on W7 64bit too..




Indeed. One of my systems is an nforce 3 ultra with a 1950 agp card lol. So, that's why I gave up on anything else other than xp at the time.


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## McM4r (Dec 6, 2012)

hi i'm a new user of TPU i from perú (so srry for my por english) and i'm very happy to see a lot of agp enthusiast in these days, well me and my friend also bougth a am2nf3-vsta  and have a 965 and 970 phenom II x4 but we have problems with the HT link because they run at 800mhz and not a 1000mhz so i'm very thankful if someone can help us with the BIOS CONFIG  (me and my friend have a ddr2 1066) we have some doubts! 
1.the am2nf3-vsta have the agp/pci lock to keep the frequencies in 33/66 respectively?
2.i see in the asrock webpage the máximum tdp supported for this mobo is 125watts so If i raise the frequency to 250 break the 125w barrier and thats is safely for the mobo and the MOSFETS? 
3.the stock aluminum heatsink of the northbridge can hold up the high bus speed of 250mhz or we need replace it?

pls heeeelp! thanks and Greetings! and keep on it!

PD. my other rig is an MSI K9MM-V+athlon 64x2 6000+ HIS HD4670 + 4gb Kingston low value


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## TRWOV (Dec 6, 2012)

I think you can set the HT link in the bios, look into "chipset settings" and change HT Link to 1000Mhz. 

View attachment 46146

Asrock boards have locked AGP/PCI clocks so overclock to you hearth's content. It wouldn't hurt to spend a little on some VRM heatsinks, like these: http://www.enzotechnology.com/mos-c1.htm

Better cooling for the NB would be a good idea. Put a 40mm fan over it or get a cooper heatsink.


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## McM4r (Dec 6, 2012)

thanks for your response TRWOV, but the am2nf3-vsta have until 800 HT link in the bios, i can select 200 400 600 or 800, 1000 don't let me choose  if i increase the bus speed to 250 my phenom II x4 consume more than 125watts? other rare thing i see is in the cpu-z the power comsuption (TDP) says 65watts


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## TRWOV (Dec 14, 2012)

count me in with the fun, just bought an AM2NF3-VSTA  Let's see how it rolls.

McM4r, once I get my board I'll be able to help you.


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## McM4r (Dec 14, 2012)

TRWOV said:


> count me in with the fun, just bought an AM2NF3-VSTA  Let's see how it rolls.
> 
> McM4r, once I get my board I'll be able to help you.



thanks a lot man! i'll be waiting, i just recent purchase this heatsink for my chipset looks very nice http://www.f13pc.pt/imagens/produtos/THERMALRIGHT_HR_05_SLI5.jpg  
what happened with the project of jayzilla?


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## Jstn7477 (Dec 14, 2012)

TRWOV said:


> count me in with the fun, just bought an AM2NF3-VSTA  Let's see how it rolls.
> 
> McM4r, once I get my board I'll be able to help you.



I still have mine running with my 3850, Phenom II X4 940BE, 4GB Mushkin DDR2-1066 and XP x86. It doesn't like its base clock increased to around 230ish, so BE chips work better it (and multiplier and voltage controls are unlocked too, when they were locked with my Phenom 9750).  Sadly I hate XP and AMD's drivers for it as games work fine but general desktop stuff seems "laggy" and I often see various windows take a second to completely draw. I have a 4CoreDual-SATA2 as well but I only have a 2GHz Xeon quad or 3GHz duals, both of which are vastly inferior to the 940BE.

I really wish ASRock had built an AM2 board using the VIA K8T800 Pro chipset as I had several 939 boards with X2 processors that were perfect for Windows 7 but the CPUs were utterly sluggish for the 3850 AGP.


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## McM4r (Dec 14, 2012)

Jstn7477 said:


> I still have mine running with my 3850, Phenom II X4 940BE, 4GB Mushkin DDR2-1066 and XP x86. It doesn't like its base clock increased to around 230ish, so BE chips work better it (and multiplier and voltage controls are unlocked too, when they were locked with my Phenom 9750).  Sadly I hate XP and AMD's drivers for it as games work fine but general desktop stuff seems "laggy" and I often see various windows take a second to completely draw. I have a 4CoreDual-SATA2 as well but I only have a 2GHz Xeon quad or 3GHz duals, both of which are vastly inferior to the 940BE.
> 
> I really wish ASRock had built an AM2 board using the VIA K8T800 Pro chipset as I had several 939 boards with X2 processors that were perfect for Windows 7 but the CPUs were utterly sluggish for the 3850 AGP.



hi man u also have an am2nf3vsta? wich is the speed of your ht link? because the only way can see for have a 1000mhz is increase the bus speed to 250 mhz .-.


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## Jstn7477 (Dec 14, 2012)

Yes, default is 800. Remember that these chipsets used to be mostly paired with socket 754 processors so that may offer some reasoning behind the HT speed. My board doesn't run reliably at >230MHz HTT, even with 3X HT speed.

TRWOV, I looked at the picture of your 775i65G and noticed what looks like a failing capacitor under the bottom right NB heatsink clip (the middle black jacketed one between the other tow above the AGP slot). Am I right or is it some sort of illusion?


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## McM4r (Dec 14, 2012)

i mentioned the 250 mhz and the 1000 HT link because i see this in a chinese page


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## WebsterXC (Dec 14, 2012)

Just joined TPU, so I haven't read through this build log, but I noticed in the OP you were going to fully watercool this.

I used to quadfire 3870's before I got rid of them. Performance PC's is selling HD3870 waterblocks for $5 a piece. I believe it's compatible with 3850, you just can't use the black acetal piece that attaches to the waterblock.

Link (Copper/Plexi):http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=22870


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## TRWOV (Dec 14, 2012)

WOW, that sure is a find. I might snag one too


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## McM4r (Dec 14, 2012)

hey guys pls i have a doubt, who is better mobo for an agp based system, the am2nf3vsta or the ALiveDual-eSATA2?? i see the last one with SATA II and HT link of 1000mhz here is the specifications http://www.asrock.com/mb/NVIDIA/ALiveDual-eSATA2/


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## TRWOV (Dec 14, 2012)

both have the nforce 3 so neither


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## McM4r (Dec 14, 2012)

so the NVIDIA® M1695 Chipset only works with pci-express and sata II rigth? 

PD.thanks TRWOV btw i sent to u a message u can speak spanish also ?


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## TRWOV (Dec 15, 2012)

Not here. This is an English forum.


BTW, both boards are fine if you stick to XP 32bit but XP is horrid for modern games and hardware. 

The ALiveDual-eSATA2 has a full length PCIe 4x slot so you could upgrade later to a PCIe card; something like an HD7750 would work fine in that slot with little or no bottlenecking. The SATA2 ports don't matter a lot unless you intent to use an SSD.


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## Mr.EVIL (Dec 15, 2012)

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


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## master_rigbuilder (Jun 4, 2013)

Jayzilla where are you I have several questions to you?! Are logging on here in techpower until this day? I also want to build the best AGP system unit using Conroe 865PE, AM2NF3-VSTA, 775i65PE, P4C800-E Deluxe, P4P800-E Deluxe and P5P800 SE.


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## Yarkan (Feb 2, 2014)

Hey guys... i'm impressed about these projects, even with discontinued hardware. I personally look to find and reach a maximum capacity of a hardware can give. My finished (discontinued hardware) project is an C2Duo 2.4Ghz - 2GB RAM DDR 1 400Mhz in DC - Sapphire Radeon HD 3850 AGP 512MB 256 bits - 2 HDs, one Samsung PATA UDMA 5 80 GB where the W7 32 bits are installed and one Wester Digital 160GB SATA where the games are installed... all working on a ASUS P5PE-VM. This is the best i can get on my shit country (BR). I was looking for these ASRock MB because have more 'compatible' resources, but most of these models are released only in North america and Europe. My Mb was designed for P4 processors 775. but the Asus enginners discovering that the chipset can run Conroe on this model, so, they developed and released an bios update that enables Conroe processors. If i got more 2GB my system will follow the actual hardware perfis. Gigabyte have models that could accept Conroe processor with 4 GB RAM, but they want money with their new boards.

So... My system run well, i've got a lot of actual games running good, not aways in High or Ultra but i'm satisfied. My next system will be fully updated. Even the money won't falls from the sky, and Dilma legally steals everything comes to me, i'll play on my old, and good PC


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## Jesse Ricard (Jan 10, 2016)

Here is my  Ultimate agp build I know old thread but still not many other ultimate agp builds. I too find it interesting to see how far agp could have gone. 
system specs: Intel Pentium extreme 840 @3.8ghz, Asus p5p800-vm mainboard, 4x1gb Samsung ddr400 cl3, EVGA geforce 7800gs-co agp @460/1350, Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 160gb sata 1 hdd, Thermaltake tr2-430np 430Watt psu, Coolermaster v8 heatsync, Antec Sonata 1 case
so far scores 6842 on 3dmark 05 1360x768 
will run some other benchmarks like 3dmark 03 soon also have some games to test like Fallout3, Half life2, GTA SA, and Grid.


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## TRWOV (Jan 10, 2016)

The P4P800-VM can be flashed with the SE bios for full FSB control. 

If you don't want to flash the bios SetFSB worked fine on mine.


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## Jesse Ricard (Jan 18, 2016)

awesome ill have to try that though i just found an asrock dual core vsta on local classifieds im going to buy.  w the coolermaster v8 i just increased the clock to 18.
i swapped out the cooler master V8 for a more period correct zalman fs-c77 fatality i got super cheap its not quiet enough for the pentium extreme w its dual prescott cores(66* on occt after 3 mins) lol looks great though.


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## Jesse Ricard (Jan 21, 2016)

got an asrock 4core dual sata2 tonight redoing the extreme AGP  tonight as well.
now its :
ASRock 4core dual sata2
Intel Pentium extreme 840 @3.8ghz
2GB OCZ platinum ddr2 800 @ 667mhz (2x 1 gb) dual channel
ASUS EAH 3650 512 silent AGP with hd6770 Direct CUii cooler
seagate barracuda 7200.10 160 gb (was supposed to be 2 in  raid one has died)
Soundblaster Audigy 2 pci
Coolermaster V8 lga775 heatsync
Coolermaster 550W psu
Antec Sonata I case


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## Jesse Ricard (Jan 23, 2016)

so with the new board, ddr2, and the hd 3650  the extreme agp scores 7246 on 3dmark 05 and 451 on nova bench vs 6842 on 3dmark 05 and 432 on nova bench with the asus p5p800-vm /7800gs/ddr400 yet to run the 7800gs in the system
system clocks are: cpu 3.4ghz(17Xclock), gpu 900mhz/ mem 555mhz ddr2, system ram 667mhz? ( weird readings on cpuz, bios says 667)
going to test this system with an e6600 cpu later


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## mingqianglee (Nov 28, 2020)

hi guys, 4 years passed, does anyone have drivers for AM2NF3 on windows 7 ?


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## xBruce88x (Nov 28, 2020)

Best bet would be to "force" install drivers from XP x64, and even that is an unsigned beta. nVidia didn't even support it for Vista let alone 7...they just moved on to the next version, tho I don't think nforce 4 was much better

Download the drivers, extract, and then manually guide the hardware install wizard to the driver

Same can be done with 32 bit/ x86 version if you opt for that, just use XP 32 bit drivers. Just know max usable system ram is 3.5 gb... So you could have 4gb physically install but only 3.5 is usable. I think gpu memory might lower that more, can't remember specifics on that atm

I've done this so many times with old gpus on win 10 its hilarious that it works


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## mingqianglee (Nov 28, 2020)

xBruce88x said:


> Best bet would be to "force" install drivers from XP x64, and even that is an unsigned beta. nVidia didn't even support it for Vista let alone 7...they just moved on to the next version, tho I don't think nforce 4 was much better
> 
> Download the drivers, extract, and then manually guide the hardware install wizard to the driver
> 
> ...




thanks so much. can you please give me a link of the driver ? i am using AM2NF3 with ATI HD3850, i wanna use windows 7 64 bit, as i bought 4*4GB memory. just dont know how to make the agp card work ..


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## agent_x007 (Nov 28, 2020)

@mingqianglee Try this one : LINK.


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## stinger608 (Nov 28, 2020)

Thanks for that link @agent_x007 !!!!!!

If you don't mind, I'm going to put that link in the Nostalgic thread in the original post?


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## mingqianglee (Nov 29, 2020)

agent_x007 said:


> @mingqianglee Try this one : LINK.



many thanks. i will have a try.


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## xBruce88x (Nov 29, 2020)

mingqianglee said:


> thanks so much. can you please give me a link of the driver ? i am using AM2NF3 with ATI HD3850, i wanna use windows 7 64 bit, as i bought 4*4GB memory. just dont know how to make the agp card work ..



for the agp card to work you will need to also grab the agp GART drivers that go with the nforce drivers. those will also be from an older os most likely. what is the model of the motherboad and perhaps we can find a suitable driver? CPU-Z is a good way to identify it if you can't access its label. make sure you have the proper power connectors for the AGP 3850. In addition to the 12v wattage you want to also make sure the 5v and 3.3v wattage/amps aren't too low. older agp style systems used a bit more of the 3.3 and 5v rails than newer computer do today. Also, keep in mind you will need to get the AGP verson of the drivers and not the pcie version. the 3850 is natively a pci-e chip but for agp they put a pcix to agp bridge chip.


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## Jacky_BEL (Nov 29, 2020)

For those wanting to run a HD4xxx AGP card on a ultimate AGP system, this is my story.
I once had a HD4650 AGP i wanted to use in a system (MSi Neo2 motherboard IIRC)
Now this card ran like crap, and at first I had no idea why. Maybe that's why I got this card so cheap.
Until I noticed specs on the box, that besides video it also had audio on it. Audio on AGP ???
Now AGP was a dedicated port for video. This audio device wanted to use the AGP bus too, contending with the video, which resulted in poor performance.
This got me thinking, if i could only change the BIOS. So I started collecting the tools for a BIOS mod.
Looking through the BIOS sections, i figured out that the AGP port only had 1 interrupt available, which is logical, because, until then, it only had 1 function, video.
Looking at other code in other sections, I was able to modify the BIOS so it could assign 2 interrupts to the AGP port.
Reassembled it all to a new BIOS-file, crossed my fingers and flashed the thing. (Now this looks like a simple job , but actually doing it, took me a while.)

Low and behold, this HD4650 now worked like a charm.


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## xBruce88x (Nov 29, 2020)

the audio is often for the hdmi ports on the "newer" cards. or for going through the dvi connector and using a dvi to hdmi adapter that allows the audio to go through. i think it uses the analog signals that would normally be used for an old vga monitor for passthrough of audio when using the dvi to hdmi adaptor, though i'm not 100% sure on that. the fact you were having slowdowns/perf issues probably has something to do with the pcie to agp chip. in theory... that chip handles all communication between whats on the agp card and the agp bus so the bios should really only see it as a single device of sorts in terms of irq since there is only one pcix to agp chip. however that's still pretty cool you were able to address the issue in the via the bios instead.


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## Jacky_BEL (Nov 29, 2020)

I remember I used the method in this other  thread on TPU: ATI HD *AGP* card with HDMI audio problems? Read this!


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## mingqianglee (Dec 7, 2020)

Guys, any one has a HIS HD3850 AGP to sell ? i really like it...


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## phill (Dec 8, 2020)

agent_x007 said:


> @mingqianglee Try this one : LINK.


Downloaded them all!!


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## phill (Dec 8, 2020)

mingqianglee said:


> Guys, any one has a HIS HD3850 AGP to sell ? i really like it...


@mingqianglee if you'd like something from our members or in general, please when you have access pop over to the Buy/Sale/Trade forum and don't forget you'll need a Heatware account if you haven't already got one  

Linky to getting stuff or getting rid of stuff!!

Hope that helps


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## mingqianglee (Dec 8, 2020)

phill said:


> @mingqianglee if you'd like something from our members or in general, please when you have access pop over to the Buy/Sale/Trade forum and don't forget you'll need a Heatware account if you haven't already got one
> 
> Linky to getting stuff or getting rid of stuff!!
> 
> Hope that helps




thanks～～～


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