# PirateBay shut down?



## lZKoce (Dec 10, 2014)

I got it from my news feed: Source: TorrentFreak. 

It has been clear to me torrenting is theft. On the other side, pirates offer pretty good service compared to other streaming models (like Netflix for example). I don't really know much about PirateBay. There was a documentary, at least one. I have always wondered how people make accounts there? I've never seen a button "register". 

Does it bother you that the Bay is sinking?


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## INSTG8R (Dec 10, 2014)

Not as much as EZTV being down.


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## EarthDog (Dec 10, 2014)

The Data Center they were running out of in Sweden was raided, yep...


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## FreedomEclipse (Dec 10, 2014)

did someone mention the raid??


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## lZKoce (Dec 10, 2014)

INSTG8R said:


> Not as much as EZTV being down.



Had to check in Wikipedia to see what EZTV is. Never heard of these guys before.



FreedomEclipse said:


> did someone mention the raid??



That corridor scene...man. Huh, I had to look away at some points. Too much machete action there.


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## Blue-Knight (Dec 10, 2014)

I voted "Relax, it is going to come back in a few days".

If not, there are other hundreds of similar sites. 



lZKoce said:


> I have always wondered how people make accounts there? I've never seen a button "register".


I have an account there. There is a registration form. Anyone can register and upload torrent files.



lZKoce said:


> It has been clear to me torrenting is theft.


Sharing files over bit torrent protocol is not illegal, sharing/downloading/uploading copyrighted material can be illegal. It depends what you share or download/upload.

Example:
Downloading/uploading an Ubuntu CD image is OK.
Downloading/uploading a Windows® operating system CD image is not.

_*Windows is registered trademark of Microsoft Corporation in the United States and/or other countries.*_


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## GreiverBlade (Dec 10, 2014)

Blue-Knight said:


> Example:
> Downloading/uploading an Ubuntu CD image is OK.
> Downloading/uploading a Windows® operating system CD image is not.
> 
> _*Windows is registered trademark of Microsoft Corporation in the United States and/or other countries.*_



well downloading isn't illegal where i am, sharing on the opposite is... pretty funny in the end
alternative: you can download anything as long as you don't share it afterward.

not that i support cracking and warez downloading ofc


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## lilhasselhoffer (Dec 10, 2014)

I'm not in the slightest bit influenced by this.

Torrenting, in and of itself, is not a crime.  I can legally share any media I generate, anything that allows sharing in the user agreements, and it can act as a means for an artist to distribute their content without the need for a large scale network (ie: google play, itunes, etc...).  People always equating torrenting with piracy is a problem.


The Pirate Bay flaunted their work-arounds of the legal system, and became the large target every anti-piracy group wanted to hit.  It isn't hard to see that they'd eventually be taken down.  This hubris, combined with condoning piracy, is what leads to their problems.  In short, they ran an extremely risky service, because the rewards were present.


Seeing this incarnation of the Pirate Bay die isn't special.  If they aren't back inside of a week, somebody else will pick-up the traffic.  I'm more interested to see if the media blows this capture out of proportion.  Hopefully if they do we can have a more open and honest discussion about IP in the digital age.  As it stands, IP laws are poorly defined for the internet.


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## ZenZimZaliben (Dec 10, 2014)

lZKoce said:


> I got it from my news feed: Source: TorrentFreak.
> 
> It has been clear to me torrenting is theft.



Don't be ridiculous and spread BS!!!! Torrenting is nothing more than a better way to transfer files. It's a better, more reliable, and more secure way of transferring files.

So I suppose anytime I torrent a new Linux ISO I am a thief...Get your definitions straight. Piracy is Piracy...Torrents are just another way to move data.


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## natr0n (Dec 10, 2014)

" Where am I gonna get my half assed shitty console ports now "

This news doesn't bother me , besides anyone smart is on private sites.


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## RCoon (Dec 10, 2014)

I get an awful lot of music from bandcamp and mininova, because the music on there is better, is completely legal, and not piled with DRM or dodgy downloaders (and they offer FLAC quality). They use torrents as one of many means of distribution. And I don't mind paying for that service one bit.

TPB was and still is just a body created to flaunt how stupid the legal system is across europe, in that no matter how much time or resources these people pour into cracking down on pirating, some guy is just going to reupload the 78mb file that contains the whole of TPB back on another website. These people are wasting colossal fortunes to bring it down, instead of just muscling out the attractiveness of TPB by offering better solutions for obtaining music, software, games and movies. People don't pirate when netflix is so cheap, when steam sales are so cheap, and when spotify is *free*.

Will the TPB go back up? Yes. Will these morons ever stop chasing an unobtainable dream of squashing all piracy? Never. They'd rather waste their time fixing a problem they made, when all they have to do is provide reasonable solutions to bring consumers a vastly superior market experience.

Netflix and other TV streaming services solved half of it, Spotify blatantly solved half of it. There are people out there that will literally pay for nothing, and they will stop at nothing to get that for free. It doesn't matter what anybody does to solve that problem, those people will always exist. Some people only turn to piracy when they've been given no alternative (for example, the BBC won't let me pay them to buy a permanent download of one of their TV series or documentaries, so I only have access to it for 30 days according to their terms). Because I work in public sector, I can't just torrent it and solve the problem, but that's the kind of thing that drives people into doing it.


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## jboydgolfer (Dec 10, 2014)

http://thepiratebay.cr

Costa Rica.Some is not complete, but it's there.


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## newtekie1 (Dec 10, 2014)

It will be back up pretty quickly.  When they made the switch to magnet links the size of the site was reduced to be small enough to fit on a flash drive exactly for situations like this.


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## FreedomEclipse (Dec 10, 2014)

TPB is like the terminator - It doesnt bleed so they cant kill it. 

unless they stop the founders from accessing the internet but even then im sure a few tech savvy people know how to rip sites like TBP or already have working copies on a flash drive which they can simply migrate over to another data center or server to get it hosted. To simply put it, TPB is like a weed growing amongst your marigolds Unless you pull it out by the roots it will just keep on growing.


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## lZKoce (Dec 10, 2014)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Don't be ridiculous and spread BS!!!! Torrenting is nothing more than a better way to transfer files. It's a better, more reliable, and more secure way of transferring files.
> 
> So I suppose anytime I torrent a new Linux ISO I am a thief...Get your definitions straight. Piracy is Piracy...Torrents are just another way to move data.



Yeah. Point taken. I was too lazy to write. Of course torrents as medium is legal. Come on, simplest example apart from Linux, I download Uniegnine Hеaven benchamark with a torrent.


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## Octopuss (Dec 11, 2014)

Where was TPB running up until now? Anyone knows? I thought they learned their lesson and chose a country where international police had no authority.

P.S. Isn't one of the founder in jail for multiple cases of hacking and theft or something? I mean, people are idolizing them as some internet freedom heroes, but let's face it, the only thing TPB is (and ever was) about is giving access to pirated content, and at least some of the guys aren't even very nice persons. Hacking is, no matter the motive, just wrong.


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## buildzoid (Dec 11, 2014)

Octopuss said:


> Where was TPB running up until now? Anyone knows? I thought they learned their lesson and chose a country where international police had no authority.
> 
> P.S. Isn't one of the founder in jail for multiple cases of hacking and theft or something? I mean, people are idolizing them as some internet freedom heroes, but let's face it, the only thing TPB is (and ever was) about is giving access to pirated content, and at least some of the guys aren't even very nice persons. Hacking is, no matter the motive, just wrong.


They ran it of the servers belonging to the Swedish Pirate Party. However it has always running of 1 rack so they could just make new TPB in a couple hours given that they find a new adequate server spot.

I use pirate for get music in FLAC format because iTunes doesn't sell that and getting CDs of bands I listen to in the CZ is often enough impossible. If the band has a bandcamp I gladly pay for the music and even pay extra if the artist doesn't seem to be selling enough.


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## Octopuss (Dec 11, 2014)

Ah, a fellow czech member  I don't remember ever seeing anyone from CZ over here 

I download music as well. I bought some in past, but cds are pain in the ass, and just collect dust.
Until bands start to offer their work in FLAC, I will keep on downloading. Itunes I'd never touch even with a 2m long pole, the entire service is one huge pile of horse shit (like most Apple stuff, but that's just my opinion).


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## Jaffakeik (Dec 11, 2014)

Never used it,I us only russian torrents,who never will be shut down or blocked by Boradband supplier,even tho its 95% for anime purposes anyway.


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## FireFox (Dec 11, 2014)

I don't know where you live people, last  night I was reading that PirateBay was online from Costa Rica.

I have been using PirateBay for a long time, when I was living in Italy, Ireland and Scotland I downloaded all the crap possible i needed, but since I came in Germany 6 years ago I got many fines (10.000€/500€/ 2.000€ due to download, of course I never paid it.


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## vega22 (Dec 11, 2014)

it was down for around 28 hours.

tax payers money well spent....


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## FireFox (Dec 11, 2014)

marsey99 said:


> it was down for around 28 hours.
> 
> tax payers money well spent....


That's right, it was!

Governments waste a lot of money and resources fighting a war already lost from the beginning, Whenever the FBI shutdown a server PirateBay Become stronger and stronger, so the Governments and its D*** Heads allies instead spend money and be playing cat and mouse would be better if they think to other problems more serious than PirateBay.


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## claylomax (Dec 11, 2014)

marsey99 said:


> it was down for around 28 hours



Must be a record.


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## Jetster (Dec 11, 2014)

didn't they have a sever in a hot air balloon at one point?


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## Rowsol (Dec 11, 2014)

Well this sucks.  At least KAT is still on.


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## claylomax (Dec 11, 2014)

Why the governments always focus on TPB when there are so many other torrent sites? Is it because of the name (has "pirate" in it)?


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## vega22 (Dec 11, 2014)

biggest site, and the more they talk about it the more know about it and the bigger it gets....funny that.

so many people use torrents to download stuff because they heard about it in the news. you would almost think they want it to grow so it does become a real problem to the industries.


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## Blue-Knight (Dec 11, 2014)

claylomax said:


> Why the governments always focus on TPB when there are so many other torrent sites?


That's the question I make to myself everyday! Their "problems" won't be over by just shutting TPB down.

It doesn't make any sense. I think they are being hard pressed by the "companies" to chase them.

Just my opinion.


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## FireFox (Dec 11, 2014)

claylomax said:


> Why the governments always focus on TPB when there are so many other torrent sites? Is it because of the name (has "pirate" in it)?



they always point the finger at PirateBay because it is one of the most powerful and popular platforms and they always have been afraid of not be able to stop it.

they were unable to stop PirateBay are not able and will never be, they will have to live with the regret that there's always someone bigger than them and go back home with the tail between the legs like a shot dog.


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## Blue-Knight (Dec 11, 2014)

Knoxx29 said:


> they always point the finger at PirateBay because it is one of the most powerful and popular platforms and they always have been afraid of not be able to stop it.


Let's say TPB will never come back... Then users will start to seek other sites (as many are doing right now).

The traffic will migrate from one place to another, but will be more fragmented I believe.

The question will be: Now, who will be their next target?!

And this chasing is completely useless because those who are seeking for illegal downloads will always find them because torrents don't depend on any website. It can be done privately.


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## FireFox (Dec 11, 2014)

Blue-Knight said:


> The question will be: Now, who will be their next target?!


There wont be another target because  they are too busy, concentrated and focused on PirateBay that they forgot about the rest of the World.


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## lZKoce (Dec 11, 2014)

claylomax said:


> Why the governments always focus on TPB when there are so many other torrent sites? Is it because of the name (has "pirate" in it)?



I have asked myself too. I think it's what marketologists/economists call "first mover's advantage". It usually is a positive thing, but sometimes it's negative. Like Napster. It was the 1st P2P "thing" for music back in the days. It went down hard and fast. Now you have it's legal counterparts: iTunes, online music sale, etc. 

TPB is the same for me. It's like a flagship, that just "leads" the pack. And the authorities want to make "an example". It's the student, that has to take all the punishment. No matter what. Ultimately, they have a right IMO. Relatively, though, it won't make a single piece of difference.


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## FreedomEclipse (Dec 11, 2014)

Kickass, Demonoid or ISOhunt would be my guess - Demonoid & ISOhunt have both had their shit raided and got taken down - ISOhunt however had their domain taken away from them and subsequently went down for a few days/weeks. They have never been raided but I remember reading something about the founder wanting them to go 'legit' just like Minnova


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## FireFox (Dec 11, 2014)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Kickass, Demonoid or ISOhunt would be my guess - Demonoid & ISOhunt have both had their shit raided and got taken down - ISOhunt however had their domain taken away from them and subsequently went down for a few days/weeks. They have never been raided but I remember reading something about the founder wanting them to go 'legit' just like Minnova


I haven't used mininova , when you say legit like mininova you mean minnova is legit?


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## FreedomEclipse (Dec 11, 2014)

Knoxx29 said:


> I haven't used mininova , when you say legit like mininova you mean minnova is legit?



Last time i visited minnova they were charging either a fee or subscription fee to download some of their torrents - So long as the MPAA & RIAA get their cut, they dont give a fuck what minnova does.


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## FireFox (Dec 11, 2014)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Last time i visited minnova they were charging either a fee or subscription fee to download some of their torrents - So long as the MPAA & RIAA get their cut, they dont give a fuck what minnova does.


Weird history, if i download through PirateBay in a few minutes the FBI is 
knocking at my door like if i had breached the White House security, but if I download through mininova everything is ok?


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## FreedomEclipse (Dec 11, 2014)

Knoxx29 said:


> Weird history, if i download through PirateBay in a few minutes the FBI is
> knocking at my door like if i had breached the White House security, but if I download through mininova everything is ok?



well they are legit now so i suppose its ok... I havent been on there so I dont know if you have to pay to download all their torrents or just the latest movies/music. Not sure about games though


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## FireFox (Dec 11, 2014)

FreedomEclipse said:


> well they are legit now so i suppose its ok... I havent been on there so I dont know if you have to pay to download all their torrents or just the latest movies/music. Not sure about games though



This is a battle that will never end.


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## jboydgolfer (Dec 11, 2014)

Rowsol said:


> Well this sucks.  At least KAT is still on.


isn't down.But the transition is still being implemented.
http://thepiratebay.cr/


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## erocker (Dec 11, 2014)

Sucks when my DVR gets shut down.


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## Blue-Knight (Dec 11, 2014)

jboydgolfer said:


> isn't down.But the transition is still being implemented.
> http://thepiratebay.cr/


There are people saying this is not the real site, just a cached version or something like that.

Could anyone confirm this?

Thanks!


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## erocker (Dec 11, 2014)

Blue-Knight said:


> There are people saying this is not the real site, just a cached version or something like that.
> 
> Could anyone confirm this?
> 
> Thanks!



The "latest 48 hours" are all up to date. They're just missing the dates right now.


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## Devon68 (Dec 11, 2014)

> Weird history, if i download through PirateBay in a few minutes the FBI is
> knocking at my door like if i had breached the White House security


No most likely the will threat your ISP for letting you download a torrent.
Your ISP will send you a notice to stop doing that or if they catch you 2 more times they will cut your internet and you will have to find a new ISP. But truth be told they will never do that because that would be like shooting them self's in the foot.


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## FireFox (Dec 11, 2014)

Devon68 said:


> No most likely the will threat your ISP for letting you download a torrent.
> Your ISP will send you a notice to stop doing that or if they catch you 2 more times they will cut your internet and you will have to find a new ISP. But truth be told they will never do that because that would be like shooting them self's in the foot.


That's right because as I wrote above I got already fines from 500€ up to 10.000€ to pay but nobody sent me a notice, 

This website is working:
http://piratebay.rocks/


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## Octopuss (Dec 11, 2014)

Looks like Germany is way worse than America.


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## FireFox (Dec 11, 2014)

Octopuss said:


> Looks like Germany is way worse than America.


The problem in Germany is that there are many fake Agencies that track your ip and send bogus letters, claiming that they are from the RIIA.

Last time i got a latter saying that I had to pay 1000€ becasue they tracked my ip while I was downloading (Avatar the film) and i had one month to pay otherwise I would go to jail for one year.

Ridiculous.


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## jboydgolfer (Dec 11, 2014)

Rowsol said:


> Well this sucks.  At least KAT is still on.





Blue-Knight said:


> There are people saying this is not the real site, just a cached version or something like that.
> 
> Could anyone confirm this?
> 
> Thanks!




I PERSONALLY cannot confirm with 100% certainty that the link I provided IS indeed the Actual TPB, but I'll link You the article that I got it from, and You can judge for Yourself.

I found that article posted around 8 or so hours after the announcement that TPB was taken down. Either way, try a magnet link, and see if it DL's, if NOT, KAT, or another torrent site is always there for You.

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/5754...y-back-new-domain-costa-rica.htm#.VIoAc3u8quw

LONGEST CAT6 cable EVER..     lol


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## twilyth (Dec 11, 2014)

Rowsol said:


> Well this sucks.  At least KAT is still on.


I love KAT but mainly because they tend to be at the top of the torrent search engine I use.  I use BTGuard VPN with VPNCheck and it's pretty smooth sailing.  Used to use Astraweb but looks like most things have moved to torrentz.


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 11, 2014)

It has transcended all physical and electronic boundries



Blue-Knight said:


> I voted "Relax, it is going to come back in a few days".
> 
> If not, there are other hundreds of similar sites.
> 
> ...


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## Drone (Dec 15, 2014)

Thanks to the efforts of isohunt.to, it looks like The Pirate Bay is back online at the URL oldpiratebay.org.

_“As you probably know the beloved Pirate Bay website is gone for now. It’ll be missed. It’ll be remembered as the pilgrim of freedom and possibilities on the web. It’s a symbol of liberty for a generation of internet users. In its honor we are making the oldpiratebay.org search. We, the isohunt.to team, copied the database of Pirate Bay in order to save it for generations of users. Nothing will be forgotten. Keep on believing, keep on sharing.”_


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## GLD (Dec 15, 2014)

Theft is NOT freedom!

Do all of you "pirates" *cough* sympathizer's think people stealing your morning paper off your lawn is OK? What about your wallet, your car, if they are stolen from you is it no big f'ing deal? What about you girlfriend or you wife? If some smooth operator comes along and steals your woman are you gong to be OK with it?

HELL NO YOU ARE NOT!


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## qubit (Dec 15, 2014)

GLD said:


> Theft is NOT freedom!
> 
> Do all of you "pirates" *cough* sympathizer's think people stealing your morning paper off your lawn is OK? What about your wallet, your car, if they are stolen from you is it no big f'ing deal? What about you girlfriend or you wife? If some smooth operator comes along and steals your woman are you gong to be OK with it?
> 
> HELL NO YOU ARE NOT!



Copying is not theft as the original is still there. That's why it's called an infringement.


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## Nabarun (Dec 15, 2014)

GLD said:


> Theft is NOT freedom!
> 
> Do all of you "pirates" *cough* sympathizer's think people stealing your morning paper off your lawn is OK? What about your wallet, your car, if they are stolen from you is it no big f'ing deal? What about you girlfriend or you wife? If some smooth operator comes along and steals your woman are you gong to be OK with it?
> 
> ...


You're confused. It would be theft if someone took my newspaper without my consent, but not so if I decide to share it with him. If sharing a physical medium like newspaper cannot be considered theft, then by extension, neither should digital media. But it's all a matter of perspective, and how much your govt. is influenced (or, actually run by) giant (read monstrous) conglomerates. These big corporations, in my view, are the real thieves. No matter what they say, they make way more money than they "allegedly" lose due to sharing.


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## Tatty_One (Dec 15, 2014)

Please do continue the discussions, please don't link to dubious sites.  As for "sharing information" ...... all good with consent, do we believe all the major software houses have given their consent to everyone and anyone to share their content?  If the answer to that is "yes" then fine, if "no" then it's a moot point, whether infringement or theft it's still Jail time


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## FireFox (Dec 15, 2014)

GLD said:


> Theft is NOT freedom!
> 
> Do all of you "pirates" *cough* sympathizer's think people stealing your morning paper off your lawn is OK? What about your wallet, your car, if they are stolen from you is it no big f'ing deal? What about you girlfriend or you wife? If some smooth operator comes along and steals your woman are you gong to be OK with it?
> 
> HELL NO YOU ARE NOT!



Please keep such ignorant comments for Yourself.

They make a ton of money.


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## claylomax (Dec 15, 2014)

GLD said:


> Theft is NOT freedom!
> 
> Do all of you "pirates" *cough* sympathizer's think people stealing your morning paper off your lawn is OK? What about your wallet, your car, if they are stolen from you is it no big f'ing deal? What about you girlfriend or you wife? If some smooth operator comes along and steals your woman are you gong to be OK with it?
> 
> HELL NO YOU ARE NOT!



Blame 0's and 1's


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## Nabarun (Dec 15, 2014)

Tatty_One said:


> Please do continue the discussions, please don't link to dubious sites.  As for "sharing information" ...... all good with consent, do we believe all the major software houses have given their consent to everyone and anyone to share their content?  If the answer to that is "yes" then fine, if "no" then it's a moot point, whether infringement or theft it's still Jail time


There are mentions (with full url) of many "dubious" sites before my post which you deleted. The sites I mentioned are not "dubious" at all. I have no doubt in my mind about the intent or purpose of those sites. The intent of my post was to throw some light on the actual "dubious" one. So I don't think deleting the post quite serves the purpose. Linking to sites is not illegal, is it? It's not like I'm linking to actual copyrighted files. Obviously I won't take responsibility if someone's PC get's infected or something, but I think our fellow users here are smart-enough to make their own decisions about who to trust. Anyway, I agree with you otherwise. I just think "law" and jail time is not what decides what is theft or unethical. It's just a matter of perspective. 

When freedom is outlawed.... 
Peace.


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## rtwjunkie (Dec 15, 2014)

Knoxx29 said:


> Please keep such ignorant comments for Yourself.
> 
> They make a ton of money.


 
Scratching my head here Knoxx...How is it ignorant to feel that if you make something, create something, you should be paid for it?  Wht if that was YOU who created a game for instance, put it up for sale, and got only a few sales, but it was pirated like hell?  Unless you intended to put it up as a gift (which you didn't in my example), you have now not been compensated for your time, imaginagion and hard work.  What are the chances you will do it again?

That's the reason I don't have any trouble handing over my cash instead of pirating.  I would expect the same were it me.

It doesn't matter how much money that company is already making, it doesn't make stealing from them any more ok.


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## Nabarun (Dec 15, 2014)

rtwjunkie said:


> Scratching my head here Knoxx...How is it ignorant to feel that if you make something, create something, you should be paid for it?  Wht if that was YOU who created a game for instance, put it up for sale, and got only a few sales, but it was pirated like hell?  Unless you intended to put it up as a gift (which you didn't in my example), you have now not been compensated for your time, imaginagion and hard work.  What are the chances you will do it again?
> 
> That's the reason I don't have any trouble handing over my cash instead of pirating.  I would expect the same were it me.
> 
> It doesn't matter how much money that company is already making, it doesn't make stealing from them any more ok.



"got only a few sales, but it was pirated like hell" - That's an absurd situation. If nobody thought it was worth buying, it wouldn't be "pirated like hell" at all.

"I don't have any trouble handing over my cash" - That's because you have it - not everybody does.

"It doesn't matter how much money that company is already making" - Ahhh, it does. *That's* the whole point. *THEY* are the greedy ones. Never satisfied no matter how much they make.


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## rtwjunkie (Dec 15, 2014)

Nabarun said:


> "got only a few sales, but it was pirated like hell" - That's an absurd situation. If nobody thought it was worth buying, it wouldn't be "pirated like hell" at all.
> 
> "I don't have any trouble handing over my cash" - That's because you have it - not everybody does.
> 
> "It doesn't matter how much money that company is already making" - Ahhh, it does. *That's* the whole point. *THEY* are the greedy ones. Never satisfied no matter how much they make.


 
It's not greed to expect to be paid for your efforts.  You obviously will never be a business owner yourself.

EDIT:  And no, I actually most of the time DON'T have the money.  You know what I do?  I WAIT till I do have the money.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 15, 2014)

RCoon said:


> I get an awful lot of music from bandcamp and mininova, because the music on there is better, is completely legal, and not piled with DRM or dodgy downloaders (and they offer FLAC quality). They use torrents as one of many means of distribution. And I don't mind paying for that service one bit.
> 
> TPB was and still is just a body created to flaunt how stupid the legal system is across europe, in that no matter how much time or resources these people pour into cracking down on pirating, some guy is just going to reupload the 78mb file that contains the whole of TPB back on another website. These people are wasting colossal fortunes to bring it down, instead of just muscling out the attractiveness of TPB by offering better solutions for obtaining music, software, games and movies. People don't pirate when netflix is so cheap, when steam sales are so cheap, and when spotify is *free*.
> 
> ...


Well said Qubit.


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## Nabarun (Dec 15, 2014)

rtwjunkie said:


> It's not greed to expect to be paid for your efforts.  You obviously will never be a business owner yourself.
> 
> EDIT:  And no, I actually most of the time DON'T have the money.  You know what I do?  I WAIT till I do have the money.



Really? You"ll wait to pay for every _(say hundreds)_ episode of the dozens of sitcoms you like... for *years*? Wow! And yes, it *IS* greed if you are never satisfied regardless of the billions of dollars you make.


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## Fourstaff (Dec 15, 2014)

Nabarun said:


> Really? You"ll wait to pay for every _(say hundreds)_ episode of the dozens of sitcoms you like... for *years*? Wow! And yes, it *IS* greed if you are never satisfied regardless of the billions of dollars you make.



Justifying stealing from the rich just because they are rich, I don't think I want to live in a world like that. 

At the end of the day these companies have a duty to their owners (aka shareholders). It is highly unfortunate that these shareholders are not pushing the companies to combat piracy properly (that is, remove reasons to pirate).


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## rtwjunkie (Dec 15, 2014)

Nabarun said:


> Really? You"ll wait to pay for every _(say hundreds)_ episode of the dozens of sitcoms you like... for *years*? Wow! And yes, it *IS* greed if you are never satisfied regardless of the billions of dollars you make.


 
Who says they are never satisfied? You?  How do you know what is in their minds?  Why is a profit "greed"? Do you know how expensive it is to make and produce any entertainment product, be it a game, a movie, television show, etc? Production costs have to be recouped first of all, followed by any intitial development costs if you expect them to ever create again.  Finally, the businss deserves a profit. 

Or are you telling me that you would release all your movies or games you produce for free or for the same as it cost to make them?  How do you propose to live? 

And yes, if I can't afford my cable bill, I drop services, because no television show is that important that I shouldn't be able to put food on the table for my family.  And yes, I don't buy movies or games when I don't have the money.  I wait till I save.  It means more to actually work for something.


----------



## Tatty_One (Dec 15, 2014)

Nabarun said:


> There are mentions (with full url) of many "dubious" sites before my post which you deleted. The sites I mentioned are not "dubious" at all. I have no doubt in my mind about the intent or purpose of those sites. The intent of my post was to throw some light on the actual "dubious" one. So I don't think deleting the post quite serves the purpose. *Linking to sites is not illegal, is it?* It's not like I'm linking to actual copyrighted files. Obviously I won't take responsibility if someone's PC get's infected or something, but I think our fellow users here are smart-enough to make their own decisions about who to trust. Anyway, I agree with you otherwise. I just think "law" and jail time is not what decides what is theft or unethical. It's just a matter of perspective.
> 
> When freedom is outlawed....
> Peace.


Fortunately I don't enforce the law, just this communities guidelines   But your point is taken.


----------



## Nabarun (Dec 15, 2014)

Fourstaff said:


> Justifying stealing from the rich just because they are rich, I don't think I want to live in a world like that.
> 
> At the end of the day these companies have a duty to their owners (aka shareholders). It is highly unfortunate that these shareholders are not pushing the companies to combat piracy properly (that is, remove reasons to pirate).


I don't support stealing. Sharing and stealing are not the same. You can go around circles saying the same cr@p all day.



rtwjunkie said:


> Who says they are never satisfied? You?  How do you know what is in their minds?  Why is a profit "greed"? Do you know how expensive it is to make and produce any entertainment product, be it a game, a movie, television show, etc? Production costs have to be recouped first of all, followed by any intitial development costs if you expect them to ever create again.  Finally, the businss deserves a profit.
> 
> Or are you telling me that you would release all your movies or games you produce for free or for the same as it cost to make them?  How do you propose to live?
> 
> And yes, if I can't afford my cable bill, I drop services, because no television show is that important that I shouldn't be able to put food on the table for my family.  And yes, I don't buy movies or games when I don't have the money.  I wait till I save.  It means more to actually work for something.



"Who says they are never satisfied? You?  How do you know what is in their minds?" YOU said it. _"It doesn't matter how much money that company is already making"_.

"Why is a profit "greed"?" - *Greed* - _"An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth"_
 The rest is just not worth replying to.


----------



## Drone (Dec 15, 2014)

GLD said:


> Theft is NOT freedom!
> 
> Do all of you "pirates" *cough* sympathizer's think people stealing your morning paper off your lawn is OK? What about your wallet, your car, if they are stolen from you is it no big f'ing deal? What about you girlfriend or you wife? If some smooth operator comes along and steals your woman are you gong to be OK with it?
> 
> HELL NO YOU ARE NOT!




Google, Apple, Microsoft and others are sharing your data so don't worry. They even know the colour of your wife's or girlfriend's underwear.


----------



## RCoon (Dec 15, 2014)

Drone said:


> Google, Apple, Microsoft and others are sharing your data so don't worry. They even know the colour of your wife's or girlfriend's underwear.



Joke's on them, I'm wearing her underwear.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Dec 15, 2014)

Quite often I'm a "have not", but I don't equate a company's desire for a profit with greed. The trouble with your definition, Nabarun, is it is subjective.


----------



## Blue-Knight (Dec 15, 2014)

Drone said:


> Thanks to the efforts of isohunt.to, it looks like The Pirate Bay is back online at the URL oldpiratebay.org.
> 
> _“As you probably know the beloved Pirate Bay website is gone for now. It’ll be missed. It’ll be remembered as the pilgrim of freedom and possibilities on the web. It’s a symbol of liberty for a generation of internet users. In its honor we are making the oldpiratebay.org search. We, the isohunt.to team, copied the database of Pirate Bay in order to save it for generations of users. Nothing will be forgotten. Keep on believing, keep on sharing.”_


Well, it is officially dead then.

I just hope the problems of the "big companies" are over now.


----------



## Fourstaff (Dec 15, 2014)

Nabarun said:


> I don't support stealing. Sharing and stealing are not the same. You can go around circles saying the same cr@p all day.



Unfortunately the law is pretty grey here, we will just go around circles debating who is right. 



Nabarun said:


> "Who says they are never satisfied? You?  How do you know what is in their minds?" YOU said it. _"It doesn't matter how much money that company is already making"_.
> 
> "Why is a profit "greed"?" - *Greed* - _"An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth"_
> The rest is just not worth replying to.



How do you know how much the company needs, or deserves? Just because they earned billions off their own hard work doesn't mean they are greedy.


----------



## qubit (Dec 15, 2014)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Well said Qubit.


Rcoon said this, not me.


----------



## Nabarun (Dec 15, 2014)

rtwjunkie said:


> Quite often I'm a "have not", but I don't equate a company's desire for a profit with greed. The trouble with your definition, Nabarun, is it is subjective.


You're a saint, dude! 



Fourstaff said:


> Unfortunately the law is pretty grey here, we will just go around circles debating who is right.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know how much the company needs, or deserves? Just because they earned billions off their own hard work doesn't mean they are greedy.


Like rtw said, it's all a matter of perspective.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Dec 15, 2014)

Nabarun said:


> You're a saint, dude!
> 
> 
> Like rtw said, it's all a matter of perspective.


 

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the merits of piracy.


----------



## Nabarun (Dec 15, 2014)

rtwjunkie said:


> We'll just have to agree to disagree on the merits of piracy.


Sure, np


----------



## Blue-Knight (Dec 15, 2014)

Fourstaff said:


> Just because they earned billions off their own hard work doesn't mean they are greedy.


Well, I think people should buy the product if they can but I believe the negative impact of illegal downloads are minimal to them (if any).

Most people who are seeking for "free downloads" won't buy the product in any way because they don't want or do not have financial conditions, so they're not losing anything.

I could say if such thing as illegal downloads stop existing they will be losing money. I imagine if every user of the Windows® operating system had to obey the rules of their EULA or license it for every single computer, or buying every software they run on their machine... The Windows® operating system would be part of past history already. With the ultimate version costing about 300 USD here...

Just my opinion.

_*Windows is registered trademark of Microsoft Corporation in the United States and/or other countries.*_


----------



## Tatty_One (Dec 15, 2014)

I think for me, and it's just a personal opinion, "sharing" is only that if the owner has given their permission to share, Nabarun gave a good example earlier of a newspaper, see the thing is, if Nabaruns neighbour took his paper and did not have his permission to read it then in my eyes it's plain old, plain old ....... theft.  Now I am fairly certain that most of the owners of the software or whatever it is being "shared" have not given their permission so however you want to technically explain it the answer is simple, to then try and justify those actions by saying that the owners are Greedy and merely profit focused and therefore lack integrity (or making that assumption) is kind of ironic as I personally find it equally greedy to expect something for nothing in return.


----------



## Drone (Dec 15, 2014)

Tatty_One said:


> I think for me, and it's just a personal opinion, "sharing" is only that if the owner has given their permission to share, Nabarun gave a good example earlier of a newspaper, see the thing is, if Nabaruns neighbour took his paper and did not have his permission to read it then in my eyes it's plain old, plain old ....... theft.  Now I am fairly certain that most of the owners of the software or whatever it is being "shared" have not given their permission so however you want to technically explain it the answer is simple, to then try and justify those actions by saying that the owners are Greedy and merely profit focused and therefore lack integrity (or making that assumption) is kind of ironic as I personally find it equally greedy to expect something for nothing in return.




I never condone piracy and I hardly ever use torrents but I don't see how file sharing and piracy is the same thing. And that example was pretty daft.


----------



## Nabarun (Dec 15, 2014)

Tatty_One said:


> I think for me, and it's just a personal opinion, "sharing" is only that if the owner has given their permission to share, Nabarun gave a good example earlier of a newspaper, see the thing is, if Nabaruns neighbour took his paper and did not have his permission to read it then in my eyes it's plain old, plain old ....... theft.  Now I am fairly certain that most of the owners of the software or whatever it is being "shared" have not given their permission so however you want to technically explain it the answer is simple, to then try and justify those actions by saying that the owners are Greedy and merely profit focused and therefore lack integrity (or making that assumption) is kind of ironic as I personally find it equally greedy to expect something for nothing in return.



The aforementioned newspaper I shared with my compatriots is not "owned" by the news agency, is it? If I paid for it, then I own it. My opinion - as is of millions of others', is that the same applies to digital content too. I know what the "law" states in some countries (because "law" is not universal) - it's just that I, like many others, just don't like it. You see, I find it incredibly difficult to think of SONY or WB or BBC or the MPAA as poor victims. If one can share his clothes, books or audio cassette, then he should also be able to share his audio cd etc.


----------



## Octopuss (Dec 15, 2014)

I see this thread is over.


----------



## Blue-Knight (Dec 15, 2014)

Drone said:


> I don't see how file sharing and piracy is the same thing.


Their copyright claims you cannot lend unless you have permission of the owner to do that. Then sharing becomes illegal.


----------



## Tatty_One (Dec 15, 2014)

Drone said:


> I never condone piracy and I hardly ever use torrents but I don't see how file sharing and piracy is the same thing. And that example was pretty daft.


As I said, the example was used earlier and not by me to describe how it could make things legit, you are right with the file sharing and piracy bit but that's my point, they are the same thing in my opinion if the owner has NOT given their permission, I am no expert on the subject and like you I don't use pirate software but simply sharing something that was sourced without permission surely cannot make things legal?

Edit: @Nabarun, you missed the point there, in your example you gave the guy permission to read your paper and therefore it is legit, if you stole the paper in the first place you didn't have the right to share it with him and therefore not.


----------



## Nabarun (Dec 15, 2014)

Tatty_One said:


> As I said, the example was used earlier and not by me to describe how it could make things legit, you are right with the file sharing and piracy bit but that's my point, they are the same thing in my opinion if the owner has NOT given their permission, I am no expert on the subject and like you I don't use pirate software but simply sharing something that was sourced without permission surely cannot make things legal?
> 
> Edit: @Nabarun, you missed the point there, in your example you gave the guy permission to read your paper and therefore it is legit, if you stole the paper in the first place you didn't have the right to share it with him and therefore not.


Well, that's my point. If a legit owner of a software, music or movie shares it with others, then how is it theft? Most stuff shared on file sharing networks ARE owned by somebody who knowingly wants to share. Yeah, yeah the license agreement thing - that's the one we dislike.


----------



## Tatty_One (Dec 15, 2014)

Nabarun said:


> Well, that's my point. If a legit owner of a software, music or movie shares it with others, then how is it theft? Most stuff shared on file sharing networks ARE owned by somebody who knowingly wants to share. Yeah, yeah the license agreement thing - that's the one we dislike.



I agree and if all that is available on these sites is software that the owners have given their permission to use/share then that's fine and should actually be applauded however I doubt that is exclusively the case..... but I may be wrong, I have tried where possible to separate the moralities from the legalities so to speak because as you said...... it's subjective where legalities are not, even if we personally don't like them.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Dec 15, 2014)

qubit said:


> Rcoon said this, not me.


Meh sounded like the same rhetoric you spew.



Tatty_One said:


> I agree and if all that is available on these sites is software that the owners have given their permission to use/share then that's fine and should actually be applauded however I doubt that is exclusively the case..... but I may be wrong, I have tried where possible to separate the moralities from the legalities so to speak because as you said...... it's subjective where legalities are not, even if we personally don't like them.


Pirating is wrong and if you do it, you break the law. End of F#$KING STORY.

Nobody cares you cant afford something. Its no ones problem but yours. It doesn't give you the right to download and use something you didn't pay for. END OF STORY.


----------



## Tatty_One (Dec 15, 2014)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Meh sounded like the same rhetoric you spew.
> 
> 
> Pirating is wrong and if you do it, you break the law. End of F#$KING STORY.
> ...


He is trying to separate the sharing of software where the owners HAVE given their permission to "share" from Pirating where they haven't which of course is illegal, I just have doubts that all "sharing" sites have the permission of all owners for the software they share and that's where my issue lies.


----------



## RCoon (Dec 15, 2014)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Meh sounded like the same *rhetoric* you spew.



noun: *rhetoric*

the art of effective or persuasive speaking or writing, especially the exploitation of figures of speech and other compositional techniques.
I'll take that as your testament that you view my and @qubit's  writing as highly effective and persuasive. I'm glad it had that impression on you  It's hard to find a good way to provide ones opinion on such a broad topic as this without coming across as abrasive.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Dec 15, 2014)

Tatty_One said:


> He is trying to separate the sharing of software where the owners HAVE given their permission to "share" from Pirating where they haven't which of course is illegal, I just have doubts that all "sharing" sites have the permission of all owners for the software they share and that's where my issue lies.


 That's like .00001% of the crap people torrent? Please its the same old Robin Hood crap over and over again. I respect people to ADMIT they are being thieving bastards WAY MORE than the righteous dicks that are fighting some magical "man" who is just greedy in their eyes.



RCoon said:


> noun: *rhetoric*
> 
> the art of effective or persuasive speaking or writing, especially the exploitation of figures of speech and other compositional techniques.
> I'll take that as your testament that you view my and @qubit's  writing as highly effective and persuasive. I'm glad it had that impression on you  It's hard to find a good way to provide ones opinion on such a broad topic as this without coming across as abrasive.


Naaaa it was meant as abrasive. Pirate Bay is full of assholes and people who use it are thieves. /thread.


----------



## RCoon (Dec 15, 2014)

TheMailMan78 said:


> people who use it are thieves.



Yeah pretty much. Mininova is a nice torrent website for legal downloads though. They used to be for pirating all sorts of gubbins, but went legit after getting tossed about by the various legal peeps. Their(TPB) comment section rivalled that of youtube as well.


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## Nabarun (Dec 15, 2014)

Tatty_One said:


> I agree and if all that is available on these sites is software that the owners have given their permission to use/share then that's fine and should actually be applauded however I doubt that is exclusively the case..... but I may be wrong, I have tried where possible to separate the moralities from the legalities so to speak because as you said...... it's subjective where legalities are not, even if we personally don't like them.


Well said.


TheMailMan78 said:


> Meh sounded like the same rhetoric you spew.
> 
> 
> Pirating is wrong and if you do it, you break the law. End of F#$KING STORY.
> ...


Wrong.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Dec 15, 2014)

Nabarun said:


> Well said.
> 
> Wrong.


You care what I can't afford? Cool, send me a check for whatever you have in your bank account.


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## mastrdrver (Dec 15, 2014)

Sorry, but on this topic (Pirate Bay) I can only think of one thing since watching this video:


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## Nabarun (Dec 15, 2014)

TheMailMan78 said:


> You care what *I can't afford*? Cool, send me a check for whatever you have in your bank account.


nope. I don't care about *you*. You don't deserve a _thieving bastard_'s, _asshole_'s sympathy.
And sharing doesn't translate to money, although we do share that all the time. It's the sharing of joy (in the digital form) folks do, actually.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Dec 15, 2014)

Nabarun said:


> nope. I don't care about *you*. You don't deserve a _thieving bastard_'s, _asshole_'s sympathy.
> And sharing doesn't translate to money, although we do share that all the time. It's the sharing of joy (in the digital form) folks do, actually.


Where is your compassion? I want free stuff too! You have more than me. I DESERVE WHAT YOU WORKED FOR!


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## Mindweaver (Dec 15, 2014)

I've got netflix... Oh and my 970 is out for delivery.. ouch.. is that stomach cramps.. My tummy hurts.. I must go home.  Oh and do Pirates only visit this bay? It sounds like it's new location will be Davy Jones' locker. TMM from a scale of 1 to 10 how well was my troll?.. Ok, I've got to get back to work.. I just had to say something in this tread before it's locked. 

*EDIT: It's all fun and games until someone losses an eye...*


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Dec 15, 2014)

Mindweaver said:


> I've got netflix... Oh and my 970 is out for delivery.. ouch.. is that stomach cramps.. My tummy hurts.. I must go home.  Oh and do Pirates only visit this bay? It sounds like it's new location will be Davy Jones' locker. TMM from a scale of 1 to 10 how well was my troll?.. Ok, I've got to get back to work.. I just had to say something in this tread before it's locked.
> 
> *EDIT: It's all fun and games until someone losses an eye...*


I give it a 2 out of 10. You need to sprinkle in some fact with BS to keep em going.


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## Devon68 (Dec 15, 2014)

Well I used pirate bay a few time's before but lately I'm using mostly EZTV which is also down  and putlocker for watching movies online.


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## PaulieG (Dec 15, 2014)

Tatty_One said:


> I think for me, and it's just a personal opinion, "sharing" is only that if the owner has given their permission to share, Nabarun gave a good example earlier of a newspaper, see the thing is, if Nabaruns neighbour took his paper and did not have his permission to read it then in my eyes it's plain old, plain old ....... theft.  Now I am fairly certain that most of the owners of the software or whatever it is being "shared" have not given their permission so however you want to technically explain it the answer is simple, to then try and justify those actions by saying that the owners are Greedy and merely profit focused and therefore lack integrity (or making that assumption) is kind of ironic as I personally find it equally greedy to expect something for nothing in return.


 
This. I'm not guilt free in this, though I stopped downloading anything that wasnt intended to be free or I havent paid for years ago. Until we live under socialism, I have no right to what others have worked for, no matter how much money they make. Hell, unless a person or company is doing something illegal or unethical, I feel that it's none of my business to consider or question what they make, and it certainly does not justify stealing from them.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Dec 15, 2014)

Paulieg said:


> This. I'm not guilt free in this, though I stopped downloading anything that wasnt intended to be free or I havent paid for years ago. Until we live under socialism, then I have no right to what others have worked for, no matter how much money they make. Hell, unless they are doing something illegal or unethical, I feel that it's none of my business to consider or question what someone else makes, and it certainly is not justification to steal from them.


Bro you even lift?


----------



## PaulieG (Dec 15, 2014)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Bro you even lift?


 
Lol. Happy to see that you are still proficient at derailing a thread.


----------



## Drone (Dec 15, 2014)

Tatty_One said:


> As I said, the example was used earlier and not by me to describe how it could make things legit, you are right with the file sharing and piracy bit but that's my point, they are the same thing in my opinion if the owner has NOT given their permission, I am no expert on the subject and like you I don't use pirate software but simply sharing something that was sourced without permission surely cannot make things legal?





Blue-Knight said:


> Their copyright claims you cannot lend unless you have permission of the owner to do that. Then sharing becomes illegal.



Little misunderstanding here. I mean file sharing in general. I'm not talking about spreading movies and warez. 

You know, many people scream "piracy" when they hear word _torrent_. But how many times so many people had situation when they have their *legit* product keys but lost their media (or can't download it because server is down or overloaded). Let's say copies of untouched iso. You torrent it, check md5 and apply your real key. No hacking, no cracking. Just downloading media that won't work without legit key anyway. Or downloading some demo/shareware/trial version from torrent when all official sources are unavailable. Is it really theft? It won't hurt anyone.


----------



## xorbe (Dec 15, 2014)

News claims that the .cr domain is not legit ... is it legit and the news a smear attempt, or is it fake?
http://hardocp.com/news/2014/12/15/fake_pirate_bay_site_popping_up_everywhere
Clearly the .ee domain is a scam


----------



## Blue-Knight (Dec 15, 2014)

xorbe said:


> News claims that the .cr domain is not legit ... is it legit and the news a smear attempt, or is it fake?


I think it is not being run by the same people so it is not legit. May be people that are trying to get their traffic in some way or another.


----------



## FireFox (Dec 15, 2014)

This history of this is legitimate and this other thing is not legitimate is getting boring and boring and boring.


----------



## qubit (Dec 15, 2014)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Meh sounded like the same rhetoric you spew.


You're wrong yet again - it's not the first time you've quoted someone else and attributed it to me so something's not working quite right with you, is it?  *I didn't even say anything to you, lol.*

If you just apologized for your error you wouldn't continue to look so dumb in public, but that's too difficult for you, isn't it? 

On top of that, strawman arguments and ad hominem personal attack troll posts like this one don't make your case either and make you look a fool in front of everyone, again.

All you're good at on TPU is derailing a thread with troll insults and sanctimonious garbage which is nothing to be proud of.


----------



## erocker (Dec 15, 2014)

Lots of pot and kettle in this thread... 

1. Stay on topic

2. Don't post links

3. Piracy, the act of and/or the discussion into how to partake in it is not advised.

This is your only warning. Any post that doesn't stay on topic or does not adhere to the forum guidelines will be removed and an infraction will be given. This topic comes up from time to time and it's always the same folks that get the conversation shut down. So, either behave or step aside.
Be good.


----------



## newconroer (Dec 15, 2014)

RCoon said:


> I get an awful lot of music from bandcamp and mininova, because the music on there is better, is completely legal, and not piled with DRM or dodgy downloaders (and they offer FLAC quality). They use torrents as one of many means of distribution. And I don't mind paying for that service one bit.
> 
> TPB was and still is just a body created to flaunt how stupid the legal system is across europe, in that no matter how much time or resources these people pour into cracking down on pirating, some guy is just going to reupload the 78mb file that contains the whole of TPB back on another website. These people are wasting colossal fortunes to bring it down, instead of just muscling out the attractiveness of TPB by offering better solutions for obtaining music, software, games and movies. People don't pirate when netflix is so cheap, when steam sales are so cheap, and when spotify is *free*.
> 
> ...



Totally agree, however the reality is people just want free shit. Even if you said 'this game is only one dollar and you get unlimited access and online play, with no hassle!' they'd still probably want it free, despite that version being limited and locked.
And the worst part is this anti-censorship manifesto bullshit, where these freethinking radicals would like you to believe they have any real concern over abuses of freedom and the 'tyrannical vice of copyrights.'

Just more justification for getting free stuff.


----------



## Ahhzz (Dec 15, 2014)

Tatty_One said:


> I think for me, and it's just a personal opinion, "sharing" is only that if the owner has given their permission to share, Nabarun gave a good example earlier of a newspaper, see the thing is, if Nabaruns neighbour took his paper and did not have his permission to read it then in my eyes it's plain old, plain old ....... theft.  Now I am fairly certain that most of the owners of the software or whatever it is being "shared" have not given their permission so however you want to technically explain it the answer is simple, to then try and justify those actions by saying that the owners are Greedy and merely profit focused and therefore lack integrity (or making that assumption) is kind of ironic as I personally find it equally greedy to expect something for nothing in return.


That's a good question. If I buy a newspaper, and then read it, I paid for it. Then, I give it to my ...... Wife, let's say. Is it theft? what about if she gives it back when she's done? so then, how about the digital format of that? I purchase the digital version of "TechPowerUp NewsNow!". Read it, and then loan the reader to my wife. Or give her the digital pdf. Is _that_ theft?


----------



## Mindweaver (Dec 15, 2014)

Ahhzz said:


> That's a good question. If I buy a newspaper, and then read it, I paid for it. Then, I give it to my ...... Wife, let's say. Is it theft? what about if she gives it back when she's done? so then, how about the digital format of that? I purchase the digital version of "TechPowerUp NewsNow!". Read it, and then loan the reader to my wife. Or give her the digital pdf. Is _that_ theft?


That's another way to think of it, but the problem is that you can give your digital version away, and still keep your version. But that's it... It doesn't get deleted. Nobody is giving their files away, and deleting them off of their machines. One person shares a copy with 50 people then that creates 50 new copies. 

*EDIT: I'm not saying that's right, but that's another way I've heard it explained.*


----------



## FireFox (Dec 15, 2014)

Is this thing still keep going on and on?

If people download or not download if share or not share if steal or not steal or if they break the laws shouldn't be our problems, each one of us is responsible for own acts.

Live your own life and let others live.


----------



## Steevo (Dec 15, 2014)

I see it as a simple idea, people will pay for good content, I will go see good movies at the theater despite it costing aroudn $60 to take my kids and buy a few snacks. I will buy good games for full price, I will buy books from google, I will rent redbox movies if I want, I will buy blu-ray movies when they are worth it. 


But, is watching Identity Theft in Blu-Ray worth it? Fuck no. 
LOTR, Hell yes. 
Would I pay full price for a manual I needed one page out of? Nope. 
Would I buy a good book to read, yes, have many in digital form and hard copies. 

The issues here are the lack of good content, it started around the same time developers decided they could ship games with huge issues to make money NOW, and patch them later, and to whatever workable degree they wanted. Same happened to music, a few good songs on some CD's and then some rambling bullshit songs, recorded as loud as possible so your china made $40 Walmart boom box could blast it out.

Penny pinchers made the world cheap, and when people realized it was cheap they acted accordingly, and now they want to cry about it. F'em. I have multiple CD's of audio that no longer play as DRM servers have been shutdown, music I paid for. I have some Google Video shows that no longer work. People are finding that Blu-Ray players can't play newer disks.

The market will decide, its what we have been told for years, and now that the market is deciding they are tired of being crapped on and people are choosing to sail the high seas to get their content, a lot of it available over the air for free in the first place, they want to take it back. Too late.


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## FX-GMC (Dec 15, 2014)

Steevo said:


> I see it as a simple idea, people will pay for good content, I will go see good movies at the theater despite it costing aroudn $60 to take my kids and buy a few snacks. I will buy good games for full price, I will buy books from google, I will rent redbox movies if I want, I will buy blu-ray movies when they are worth it.
> 
> 
> But, is watching Identity Theft in Blu-Ray worth it? Fuck no.
> ...



OK FINE.  I'm a pirate too.


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## FreedomEclipse (Dec 16, 2014)

Gaming and Piracy......

Do you remember them good old days where publishers used release demos for their up and coming games? Now all we mainly have (90% of the time) are Alpha's or Beta's that require us to pay to play and while we're at it possibly bug report for the developers.
The industry shouldnt be like this and im a strong advocate against paying just to be able to get into an alpha or beta.... There are quite a few games on steam where developers have charged people to play the alpha then after a year or so completely stopped work on it.... One of these games is RUST. Another game is possibly DAYZ standalone - Bethesda wont pull out of it, but at the same time progress has been rather slow or non-existant even and nobody knows when the game will be released and what sort of state it will be released in when its released, Though with that said Bethesda's games have always been buggy and relied strongly on modding community to get its full potential.

Im all for developers getting paid for their hard work. but given how shitty quite a few triple A titles have been in this past or previous year it doesnt inspire confidence among the community and when people arent confident in the developer then their sales will  ultimately suffer and of course piracy will occur.

I use torrents as a way of testing out a game to see if i like it before purchasing it rather than just blindly parting with my money on a promise that may never be fulfilled.

Developers need to get back into the habit of releasing demos, If not then steam should step forward and start offering refunds for games that you didnt like because not all trailer footage represents actual gameplay and that is false advertising.

Its as false as a major triple A release for an Xbone or PS4 being demo'd at a convention on a quad or six core processor with infinite amounts of ram and an uber powerful graphics card.... but wait - its ok. the game is being run in a virtual environment and thus whatever console is being 'emulated' which is complete BS - why such a beast of a machine when you could go for something a little more midrange and match the specs of a console?


In a way, they've done this to themselves all in the name of corporate greed..... Charging more money for less work/game content.


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## qubit (Dec 16, 2014)

Well said, Freedom. In a word, you've described the creators' hypocrisy.

I've never been a fan of early access, because it was obvious at the outset that a developer could just take your money and run and lo and behold sometimes they do. Nah, show me a finished and polished product that's worth buying and then you'll get my money.

A fine example of a triple A title which ended up being garbage is Aliens: Colonial Marines which has a mere 45% metacritic rating on its Steam store page and got panned by reviewers and gamers everywhere. And yeah, what happened to all those game demos we used to see? Say what you like about EA, but they must be commended on still putting these out, at least on some of the games, such as the FIFA series.

On top of all this, various independent university studies have shown that piracy has very little effect on sales and that the "pirates" are often the most prolific purchasers, or can even be a benefit by growing market penetration. And for anyone who wants to challenge me on this point, no, I don't have the evidence to hand, but googling for it should net some results.

And then these game companies blame the so-called "pirates" when their crap product bombs. Sod off.


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## OneMoar (Dec 16, 2014)

it will be back ...


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## Nabarun (Dec 16, 2014)

OneMoar said:


> it will be back ...



Just like Demonoid. Still sailing... and is much more "public" (as in 'no need to login') now.


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## Tatty_One (Dec 16, 2014)

Ahhzz said:


> That's a good question. If I buy a newspaper, and then read it, I paid for it. Then, I give it to my ...... Wife, let's say. Is it theft? what about if she gives it back when she's done? so then, how about the digital format of that? I purchase the digital version of "TechPowerUp NewsNow!". Read it, and then loan the reader to my wife. Or give her the digital pdf. Is _that_ theft?


Good question, however I think you will find that the copyright protection placed on a newspaper available for public purchase pales into insignificance in comparison to lets say Microsoft Windows professional edition 8.1.


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## claylomax (Dec 16, 2014)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Pirating is wrong and if you do it, you break the law. End of F#$KING STORY



It depends on the country you live in.


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## lilhasselhoffer (Dec 16, 2014)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Gaming and Piracy......
> 
> Do you remember them good old days where publishers used release demos for their up and coming games? Now all we mainly have (90% of the time) are Alpha's or Beta's that require us to pay to play and while we're at it possibly bug report for the developers.
> The industry shouldnt be like this and im a strong advocate against paying just to be able to get into an alpha or beta.... There are quite a few games on steam where developers have charged people to play the alpha then after a year or so completely stopped work on it.... One of these games is RUST. Another game is possibly DAYZ standalone - Bethesda wont pull out of it, but at the same time progress has been rather slow or non-existant even and nobody knows when the game will be released and what sort of state it will be released in when its released, Though with that said Bethesda's games have always been buggy and relied strongly on modding community to get its full potential.
> ...



I've got a problem here.  While your sentiment is appreciated, there's a problem with your logic.

Let's agree that there are 3 levels of games; good, mediocre, and bad.  Now let's also agree that there are are three levels of demo; the same good, mediocre, and bad.  This leads to the conclusion there are a total of nine demo/game combinations that are available to exists.  Of the nine, three are immediately counter-productive.  Bad demos lead to no positive spin.  The mediocre demos also either lead to no influence on sales, or a negative one.  Looking at the remaining three options, we've got a mixed bag.  A good game and good demo lead to people buying the product.  A mediocre game, with a good demo, hurts future sales.  Finally, a good demo for a crap game leads to a huge public backlash.  Think Aliens: Colonial Marines if you need proof positive of that.

So, put yourself in the developer's shoes.  11% of the time, based upon these rather loosely defined parameters, you've got an up-side.  89% of the time you either hurt sales, damage reputation, or spend resources on creating a demo without getting purchasing payback.  What incentive do developers have to put out demos?




Getting off my soap-box, there are exactly two reasons to pirate and used cracked copies of games.  Reason 1 is that you've purchased the game, but it doesn't work properly.  Reaching an example of this is not difficult, as the shut-down of GFWL has broken plenty of games.  Not everybody is Warner Brothers (thanks to them for keeping Batman alive btw).  Reason 2 is preservation.  If you cannot possibly obtain a legal copy of a game then pirate away.  So many games are disappearing due to a lack of interest, and that's a travesty.  Sometimes booting up Jazz Jackrabbit is cathartic, and I'd hope to share that experience with other people in a decade.  There's currently no way to do this without resorting to "piracy."

While using a pirate copy for a demo sounds reasonable, it seems rather backwards.  After 6 months most games are in the $15-30 range.  After a year, they can be had with DLC for that much.  Waiting 18 months usually yields game of the year variants at the $10 mark.  At that point, you're basically getting a game for the price of a movie.  Two hours of entertainment, and you've got a better investment than most movies.  If you can't stand a game after that, you've got no real reason to moan.  If the games industry doesn't want people doing this (they do want you to spend $60 per game), they release demos.  Ideally, developers actually use peer-to-peer sharing to distribute their demos freely.  I'd be happy to pay $60 for Skyrim from a smaller developer, assuming I could play it first.  Of course, that tidal shift in understanding that games don't need to sell in the first two weeks (thanks to the death of the retail requirements) has escaped developers.

Piracy is not a solution, and is not evil.  What it is is an outcry for something to service a new market, and it isn't being heeded.  Traditional ideas are not bending to new markets, so piracy prevails.  If people truly wanted to minimize piracy, because stopping it 100% will never happen, then they'd change the way they service the market.  Valve understood this with Steam, but EA and others have not.  Gog is tapping the same beautiful understanding of a new market, and providing DRM free games without losing their hats.  When the rest of the market evolves we'll see this debate be less obtrusive, but in times of upheaval older systems make their inadequacies known.  The only difference is that evolution is happening faster now than ever before.  Hopefully one day law and services will match capabilities, but it hasn't ever really happened in my lifetime.


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## MustSeeMelons (Dec 16, 2014)

lilhasselhoffer said:


> Piracy is not a solution, and is not evil. What it is is an outcry for something to service a new market, and it isn't being heeded. Traditional ideas are not bending to new markets, so piracy prevails. If people truly wanted to minimize piracy, because stopping it 100% will never happen, then they'd change the way they service the market. Valve understood this with Steam, but EA and others have not. Gog is tapping the same beautiful understanding of a new market, and providing DRM free games without losing their hats. When the rest of the market evolves we'll see this debate be less obtrusive, but in times of upheaval older systems make their inadequacies known. The only difference is that evolution is happening faster now than ever before. Hopefully one day law and services will match capabilities, but it hasn't ever really happened in my lifetime.



Steam is the best thing that has happened, it's still not perfect, but a lot better than, say, Origin. I'm somewhat a pirate, mostly because there is content I just can't legitimately get or the pricing is through the roof: a game that costs 60 EUR in Germany can't cost 60 EUR in the Baltics for example. If the pricing would be somewhat justified to fit in with the average income I would buy a ton more games than now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

Never really liked the pirate bay, private trackers usually are better


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## Devon68 (Dec 16, 2014)

> If the pricing would be somewhat justified to fit in with the average income I would buy a ton more games than now.


Yes. I agree with this. If the average income in my country is let's say 350 euros and the average income in a richer country is 750 euros then how can they expect me to pay 60 euro's for a game.

I really don't care anymore but this is my logic. I will pirate a game if I really want it and play it until it comes down in price that I can actually afford.


> Pirating is wrong and if you do it, you break the law. End of F#$KING STORY





> It depends on the country you live in.


That is true. In some country's if you download a torrent and set your upload speed to the lowest speed it is legal to download a torrent.


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## FreedomEclipse (Dec 17, 2014)

lilhasselhoffer said:


> <snip>A good game and good demo lead to people buying the product. A mediocre game, with a good demo, hurts future sales. Finally, a good demo for a crap game leads to a huge public backlash. Think Aliens: Colonial Marines if you need proof positive of that.



*1.* _A good game + good demo_ = win win situation, it also means the developers put more effort into making game because the demo has to leave a good impression with the to-be consumers/players.

*2.* _A mediocre game + good demo, hurts future sales_ = not necessarily you're forgetting that there are so many variables when it comes to making a game. Maybe the the guy who came up with the original concept for the game decided to leave halfway through development and the guy they got to replace him didnt have the same vision for the game as the previous guy? or maybe a lot of the original team of developers left the studio or got sacked part-way through and the people they hired to finish the game off were either totally useless or had their own way of coding the game which led to glitches and bugs with the finished title.

Providing the game came for a reputable developer, i wouldnt be so quick to judge their releases.

Long story short - Im subscribed to TotalBiscuit on youtube and he reviews quite a lot of pc ports, More often than not there are studios out there whose sole purpose in life is to port games over to PC - they might make the odd small to medium sized game here  and there but their bread and butter is porting.....
Now you will get studios that do a horrendous job porting games over then you will get studios that do a decent job.

Some of the worst ports out there is the studio that does all the *Arc System Works *stuff, so think blazblue or guilty gear. recently the blazblue series has appeared on steam and i think it was the second game (that TB reviewed) that was quite bad - but then again this is coming from a studio thats known for doing half arsed ports.

Compare that to *Platinum games *who did the port for Metal Gear Rising and they did a complete stellar job of it and it was their FIRST TIME porting a game over to PC. They also ported 'The Legend Of Korra' over to PC - from what i gather they did an OK job of it, but the mixed reviews it received were more to do with the game, gameplay and the story itself rather then how it played as a port, but youre obviously limited with what you can do when the game is more or less like a 'cartoonier' version of plants vs zombies or DBZ Shin Budokai on the PSP.

Another example is DICE - They are capable of making GREAT games, I remember playing the shit out of the BF2 demo for 2 or 3 weeks before I went out there and bought the actual game, I also played the BF1942 demo with friends on a LAN and it was a hilarious amount of fun. Its only BF4 which seemed to be complete and utterly broken from the start and still is in a way when you consider ongoing problems with netcode & other bugs etc etc. BF3 had the issue with bullets that curved around corners but that was fixed fairly quickly, People rage about how their never gonna buy another EA, DICE or BF game but how much of the problem was a result of EA pushing DICE to release BF4 before it was honestly truly ready for release? EA wanted to beat CoD to the shelves.


*3. *_a good demo for a crap game leads to a huge public backlash = _see above, imo a crap game is just the same as a mediocre game. The way i see it is 'Great game' 'OK game' & 'utter bollocks game' - 'OK game' being the middle ground - neither good or bad and 'utter bollocks' being horrendously bad.

a public backlash is dependant on how much the media, publisher & to a lesser extent the general public/community hype the game. A butt load of fingers are pointing at IGN - because thats what IGN do apart from taking bribes.

I never played Colonial Marines but from what i gather it was bad because you had different developers working on it - Timegate studios were the original people who started working on it, they went bankrupt so gearbox software started working on it again, then sega outsourced the work to two or more different studios yadayadayada and too many cooks spoil the broth.

Sega also had a class lawsuit filed against them claiming that Gearbox and Sega falsely advertised Aliens: Colonial Marines by showing demos at trade shows like PAX and E3 that didn't end up being accurate representations of the final product.

---

So you see, Colonial Marines had a lot of stuff wrong with it which inevitably had a serious detrimental effect on the end product.... Throw in the argument that media as well as Gearbox/Sega were getting people hyped for the game and theres your backlash.

Its no different then a holy prophet (or 'a' messiah or certain messiah) promising to lead his flock (his people~) to the promised lands but then after spending more than 100 years wandering about in the wilderness when most of the original generation have died on the journey from natural causes or sickness, he turns around and says that it was all a lie.

How many times has a friend or member of family promised you something then didnt deliver???

I too would be furious if i was lead around the garden path so to speak - so would anyone one else for that matter.



So my logic isnt as flawed as you think.


Anyway, it took a while to type all this out while i did my research and i do apologise if its a wall of text.


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## Steevo (Dec 17, 2014)

Even good games with a terrible demo will earn reputation quickly.


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## FreedomEclipse (Dec 17, 2014)

Steevo said:


> Even good games with a terrible demo will earn reputation quickly.




thats because there are people who will still buy the game even if the demo is bad. Its all word of mouth really, but a demo should be a close representation of the final product to come. Developers can give you free access to an alpha to demo a game but an alpha is a real loose representation of whats POSSIBLY to come. they could strip out, chop and change anything and everything they want to.


I honestly dont remember playing a bad demo, but at the same time I arrived to the party a bit late - I didnt have broadband or a PC powerful enough to run games properly till around 2000 or 2001 so i literally missed the massive pc gaming boom that started in the late 90s.

without demos, I think people like Total Biscuit are a much needed voice in the gaming industry, none of the IGN rubbish - First and foremost, IGN are supposed to be a gaming reviews site but they are being paid off to hype games.

he's definitely worth the sub if you like to hear about the latest releases & all the news about whats going on in the gaming industry - theres either always a lot of drama like steam's recent take down of a game called HATRED from greenlight and all sorts of interesting news & info.


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## lilhasselhoffer (Dec 18, 2014)

FreedomEclipse said:


> *1.* _A good game + good demo_ = win win situation, it also means the developers put more effort into making game because the demo has to leave a good impression with the to-be consumers/players.
> 
> *2.* _A mediocre game + good demo, hurts future sales_ = not necessarily you're forgetting that there are so many variables when it comes to making a game. Maybe the the guy who came up with the original concept for the game decided to leave halfway through development and the guy they got to replace him didnt have the same vision for the game as the previous guy? or maybe a lot of the original team of developers left the studio or got sacked part-way through and the people they hired to finish the game off were either totally useless or had their own way of coding the game which led to glitches and bugs with the finished title.
> 
> ...



Apologies not necessary, but you're looking at a couple of examples and extrapolating an industrial trend from them.  Replace Video Games with toothpaste, cereal, or anything else and it'll hold true.  Furthermore, stay on topic.  I agree with you about mixed feeling on ports, but that is another topic.  This was about a company releasing a demo of their game prior to releasing the full thing.  I, in this instance, don't care about ports.  Ports don't get demos.


Continuing on, you need to focus on demos.  No hype, no background in the industry, no behind closed doors dealings.  I don't care if 50 companies worked on it, all I see is the finished game and its demo.  If Aliens had played like the demo at E3, I'd have bought it.  That demo was amazing, and the game was mediocre to crap.  As a reasonable individual, I am looking at all Gearbox/Sega/Timegate products significantly longer now, as their reputation for quality has been damaged.  If you don't agree with me there, I'd ask you how you feel about Duke Nukem.  What about Rare products?  Bad games with hype make the bad parts of them even worse.  Nobody remembers a flop when nothing is expected of it, but everyone remembers things like Superman 64.

I'll acquiesce that there is a sweet-spot.  In this sweet spot a truly bad game can become a cult classic, because it is bad in just the right way.  I cannot think of a single game like this with a demo though.  


That was a huge diversion, but the real truth of the matter is everyone spending time on a demo is one person who is "wasting" the company's money.  An executive uses the reasoning I presented above, and looks at market data.  Very little potential positives, and a minimal measurable positive impact on sales, means there is no financial reason to release a demo.  



If you want companies to release demos you need to remove retail sales.  If your game is released on a digital store, and will stay at the same price for 8 months, you need a demo.  No publisher can afford an 8 month advertisement campaign.  As yet, big publishers haven't taken advantage of this.  They focus on the huge sales push, two weeks of sales at full price, then write games off to minor DLC expenses.  Changing that attitude might mean that a 30 minute demo would make sense as a very cheap advertising tool.  Best of luck actually getting this change to happen.


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## OneMoar (Dec 22, 2014)

Andd they are back ...
new front page and a count down with a AES chiper at the bottom
yarr now this be getting interesting


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## Tallencor (Dec 22, 2014)

OneMoar said:


> Andd they are back ...
> new front page and a count down with a AES chiper at the bottom
> yarr now this be getting interesting


Saw that. It would make for a cool animated wallpaper without the timer. Clicking on the flag will take you to a virus warning firewall mumbo jumbo page.


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## Blue-Knight (Dec 22, 2014)

OneMoar said:


> Andd they are back ...


What!? They are redirecting to random sites.


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## claylomax (Dec 22, 2014)

OneMoar said:


> Andd they are back ...
> new front page and a count down with a AES chiper at the bottom
> yarr now this be getting interesting



The poll won in the end.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 22, 2014)

claylomax said:


> The poll won in the end.


And? People who use Pirate Bay don't pay for any games or know the value of money. So OF COURSE they would just say "relax it will be back". Doubt any of them hosted it however. That would mean work. Most of them live at home or just sit around and wait to collect government hand outs.

Only people who will host it are misguided Robin Hood types. Average users are to lazy and cowardly to do any real work.


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## OneMoar (Dec 22, 2014)

TheMailMan78 said:


> And? People who use Pirate Bay don't pay for any games or know the value of money. So OF COURSE they would just say "relax it will be back". Doubt any of them hosted it however. That would mean work. Most of them live at home or just sit around and wait to collect government hand outs.
> 
> Only people who will host it are misguided Robin Hood types. Average users are to lazy and cowardly to do any real work.


10/10  best trolling in this thread yet ...
congrats you have won the internet


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 22, 2014)

OneMoar said:


> 10/10  best trolling in this thread yet ...
> congrats you have won the internet


By trolling you mean factual post.


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## OneMoar (Dec 22, 2014)

TheMailMan78 said:


> By trolling you mean factual post.


bahahah hahaha hahah good one


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 22, 2014)

Must have hit home I guess.


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## xorbe (Dec 22, 2014)

I don't think most people went for the games ... try movies and music.


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## OneMoar (Dec 22, 2014)

I quit using thepiratebay ages ago to much crap after they opened uploads to everybody
it is amusing to watch them try and shut it down


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## twilyth (Dec 22, 2014)

OneMoar said:


> I quit using thepiratebay ages ago to much crap after they opened uploads to everybody
> it is amusing to watch them try and shut it down


Tru dat.  There are so many other options.  What's really sad from my point of view is the slow death of usenet.  People just don't upload to it the way they used to and the retention rates don't seem to be what they used to be either. I do understand it though.  Dealing with things like parity files was always a pain.


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## OneMoar (Dec 22, 2014)

I have a usenet seedbox with something like 2TB  of bandwidth left that I am not using simply because ... effort ...
DCC will always be king for me


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## erocker (Dec 23, 2014)

Website is back up. Enjoy your media.. or filesharing, or whatever.


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