# Dont build a pc until April



## nuggdoctor (Jan 3, 2021)

My opinion to people is DONT build right now. its the worst time in years to build a pc. Wait until april for stock to catch back up and for production to get back to normal and prices will drop.


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## nguyen (Jan 3, 2021)

april 2024 you mean


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## ixi (Jan 3, 2021)

Just nuggdoctor!


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## nuggdoctor (Jan 3, 2021)

By april AMD cpu's will be available and so will most of nvidia and amd gpu's. right now to build with new parts you have to pay scalper prices. And by april production will resume to normal capacities and so will shipping, so a lot more of the item people need to build with with be available for much much cheaper.


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## Atomic77 (Jan 3, 2021)

Why  build a computer? Every freaking computer I have ever had has been name brand such as HP and has worked for me for everything I ever needed a computer for. I don't have the brains or the smarts or time to build a pc. Not saying I would ever have one built but in my opinion its a big waste of time.


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## freeagent (Jan 3, 2021)

Are you lost?

This isn't a Dell or HP forum


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## 300BaudBob (Jan 3, 2021)

Bad bad advice, that's about when I was hoping to build a new system...if everyone follows this advice I'll probably have to delay for a month or six .


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## nuggdoctor (Jan 3, 2021)

Atomic77 said:


> Why  build a computer? Every freaking computer I have ever had has been name brand such as HP and has worked for me for everything I ever needed a computer for. I don't have the brains or the smarts or time to build a pc. Not saying I would ever have one built but in my opinion its a big waste of time.


well. if all you do is watch a few youtube vids and play on facebook or twitter and maybe watch 1080p movies on netflix then a basic barebones pc that you get from best buy or walmart will honestly be just fine. But if you want to play games at high frame rates and at the best settings and resolutions then there is NOTHING you can get from any name brand pc company that youll find on a store shelf that will do it. YES the stores can ORDER you what you want but it isnt the same as building it yourself. And try to show me an off the shelf rig thats anywhere close to this. AND its not as hard as you think to build a pc.



300BaudBob said:


> Bad bad advice, that's about when I was hoping to build a new system...if everyone follows this advice I'll probably have to delay for a month or six .


how do you figure that? you cant get any of the new pc gear unless you pay scalper prices. which is double or triple the msrp youll pay if you wait till april.

go to bestbuy.com and try to buy a rig at ANY price with any of the newest cpu's or gpu's. theyre all gone. all of them

even the 4 and 5 thousand dollar rigs. so good luck in your adventure building in todays climate.


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## 300BaudBob (Jan 3, 2021)

nuggdoctor said:


> well. if all you do is watch a few youtube vids and play on facebook or twitter and maybe watch 1080p movies on netflix then a basic barebones pc that you get from best buy or walmart will honestly be just fine. But if you want to play games at high frame rates and at the best settings and resolutions then there is NOTHING you can get from any name brand pc company that youll find on a store shelf that will do it. YES the stores can ORDER you what you want but it isnt the same as building it yourself. And try to show me an off the shelf rig thats anywhere close to this. AND its not as hard as you think to build a pc.
> 
> 
> how do you figure that? you cant get any of the new pc gear unless you pay scalper prices. which is double or triple the msrp youll pay if you wait till april.
> ...


Tis a joke see the wink?


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## nuggdoctor (Jan 3, 2021)

I didnt till just now lmmfao


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## 300BaudBob (Jan 3, 2021)

nuggdoctor said:


> I didnt till just now lmmfao


I'll admit my jokes keep falling pretty flat here... but it's the way I'm built to keep trying


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## nuggdoctor (Jan 3, 2021)

300BaudBob said:


> I'll admit my jokes keep falling pretty flat here... but it's the way I'm built to keep trying


Gotta keep trying and hoping for the best . just like the poor saps that are still hitting refresh on their 3080 orders rotflmmfao


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## PooPipeBoy (Jan 3, 2021)

Lets be honest, it's always a bad time to build a new computer. There's at least half a dozen components to buy and they all have their own supply/pricing issues.


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## nuggdoctor (Jan 3, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Lets be honest, it's always a bad time to build a new computer. There's at least half a dozen components to buy and they all have their own supply/pricing issues.


yes and no. If you dont need the latest and greatest top tier items like the 5950x for example when a normal launch happens it would have been a great time to snag a 3950x or even a 3900x. but since it was a bot and paper launch the prices of the last gen never went down and in most cases went up due to the new demand for them since people couldnt get the new ones.

combine the botched launches with 10's of millions more buyers than ever because of covid restrictions and lockdowns it all create the most toxic electronics market ive seen in my life and im 42 and have been building pcs since the 90s

I made this video about this topic a month ago


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## 300BaudBob (Jan 3, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Lets be honest, it's always a bad time to build a new computer. There's at least half a dozen components to buy and they all have their own supply/pricing issues.


I guess bad time is relative but this is an especially bad time with several problems.  When I built my x99 system ddr4 was new and expensive and in short supply, but it was just one component.  Now several things I'd want for a new build  are in short supply.  Plus there are some interesting things coming out in the next month or two which I'm interested in.  Also it takes time for Linux to catch up to new hardware sometimes...all of which tells me this is a good time to be a little patient.  
Of course if my desktop dies tonight...well I'd probably bite the bullet and go for building a new system now but barring that waiting a bit seems like the best bet (and of course it is a bet something bad might happen like a couple fab plants burning down but hey the odds are fairly low).


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## nuggdoctor (Jan 3, 2021)

Right now EVERYTHING is jacked up. look at motherboards, ram and power supplies. It seem all components except cases and liquid coolers are hitting an insane premium right now.

great time to buy a case or your prospective aio cooler though.  so theres the silver lining


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## Atomic77 (Jan 4, 2021)

Well well well way to go y'all rip me a part. All I have to say is some off the shelf computers like this laptop I got from Costco in July 2020 can do a awful lot. its the one pictured in my picture when I post.


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## Gmr_Chick (Jan 4, 2021)

Atomic77 said:


> Well well well way to go y'all rip me a part. All I have to say is some off the shelf computers like this laptop I got from Costco in July 2020 can do a awful lot. its the one pictured in my picture when I post.



Meh, don't let the snobs get to you. If it works for you, go for it!  

I'm in the middle of building my Ryzen 2.0 rig. Got my R5 3600 the day before yesterday @ Newegg for $200, and now I'm going back and forth between an X570 and a B550 board, both in stock. I mean, yeah the GPU/CPU thing sucks a big one, but unless you're wanting to buy something like a Crosshair VIII Dark Hero (they're all on Ebay, lol) mobo stock on the etailers I frequent is pretty good still


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## nuggdoctor (Jan 4, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Meh, don't let the snobs get to you. If it works for you, go for it!
> 
> I'm in the middle of building my Ryzen 2.0 rig. Got my R5 3600 the day before yesterday @ Newegg for $200, and now I'm going back and forth between an X570 and a B550 board, both in stock. I mean, yeah the GPU/CPU thing sucks a big one, but unless you're wanting to buy something like a Crosshair VIII Dark Hero (they're all on Ebay, lol) mobo stock on the etailers I frequent is pretty good still


The stock on mobo's and ram and ssd isnt the problem. its the price gouging their doing. why are refurbished 2070 supers going for 900$ and new ones 11 and 1200$? why are the bottom end ryzen mobos now almost 250$? thats what im talking about when i say mobo's and other items. Now is a decent time to get your cpu aio cooler or psu though.  And on the other side it comes down to usage. What are you using the rig for? For example i scrapped consoles to game on pc so I need a lot more than the average youtube watcher or email checker or netflix watcher. Its all in what YOU need to do what YOU want to do. its not a snob thing. its a practical thing. And nobody carries high end gaming computers in stock with all the newest hardware. it all has to be ordered anyway. so if youre ordering stuff to begin with, then why not order your own parts and build it yourself. get more for your money and save money by not paying an inflated price for a brand or for them to put it together for you.


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## RJARRRPCGP (Jan 4, 2021)

OTOH, even at Newegg, looked like no hard time getting a B550 motherboard! I think I could get a good one there for less than $200, IIRC.


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## Splinterdog (Jan 4, 2021)

It also depends on where you live. In Argentina, prices never drop and we have devaluation and inflation (50%+) to contend with, so we always build our PCs yesterday.
The motto here seems to be "Buy it now before it goes up in price."


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## kapone32 (Jan 4, 2021)

In actual fact the best way to build a PC right now are:

1. Make sure you look on Amazon, Newegg and whoever but look for items like Cases, PSUs, and storage.
2. Have a friend at the closest brick and mortar computer store for GPUs and CPUs. 
3. Intel has some actual great deals on pretty good 10th Gen CPUs. 
4. While the 3000 and 6000 are both compelling the RX 580/1650 will still satisfy most desires. 

The problem with waiting is that prices may been even higher by April if demand continues at this unprecedented level. Here in Canada Canada Computers has no CPUs for sale under $300 in stock from AMD.


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## nuggdoctor (Jan 4, 2021)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> OTOH, even at Newegg, looked like no hard time getting a B550 motherboard! I think I could get a good one there for less than $200, IIRC.


Can that handle the new 5900x and 5950x at that price? some of the cheapest boards are having issues with them.


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## RJARRRPCGP (Jan 4, 2021)

nuggdoctor said:


> Can that handle the new 5900x and 5950x at that price? some of the cheapest boards are having issues with them.


At Newegg, don't be surprised if they are all out-of-stock!  

Looks like the B550 variant of the Tomahawk should have good enough MOSFETs, VRM(s) and phases.


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## nuggdoctor (Jan 4, 2021)

kapone32 said:


> In actual fact the best way to build a PC right now are:
> 
> 1. Make sure you look on Amazon, Newegg and whoever but look for items like Cases, PSUs, and storage.
> 2. Have a friend at the closest brick and mortar computer store for GPUs and CPUs.
> ...


the problem isnt the new demand. They want to claim it is. but its in production and with covid production across the board is down. and add the fact that theres a shortage of silicon right now again due to covid. some have returned to full capacity and still some have not. but by april production will have surpassed the increased demand. as well as shortages in ram. its just bad all the way around right now. the prices will spike through january and into february . but by april the market should normalize.


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## kapone32 (Jan 4, 2021)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> At Newegg, don't be surprised if they are all out-of-stock!


In today's world you and about 700 other serious buyers could be clicking buy by the time you make up your mind.


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## BMfan80 (Jan 4, 2021)

It was a fine time for me to buy my new parts,my 5800x and soon to be here 6800xt Merc wasn't from some overpriced chancer.
I paid the "normal" price here in South Africa,i say "normal" because our exchange rate is a bit &#$@ed.


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## nuggdoctor (Jan 4, 2021)

BMfan80 said:


> It was a fine time for me to buy my new parts,my 5800x and soon to be here 6800xt Merc wasn't from some overpriced chancer.
> I paid the "normal" price here in South Africa,i say "normal" because our exchange rate is a bit &#$@ed.


Then you are lucky. Count your blessings. theyre 680$ u.s on amazon. And to put it in perspective the 5900x msrp was 550$ u.s


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## RJARRRPCGP (Jan 4, 2021)

I'm lucky that I got my Radeon RX5600XT in November, IIRC!


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## kapone32 (Jan 4, 2021)

nuggdoctor said:


> the problem isnt the new demand. They want to claim it is. but its in production and with covid production across the board is down. and add the fact that theres a shortage of silicon right now again due to covid. some have returned to full capacity and still some have not. but by april production will have surpassed the increased demand.


Don't believe the hype. Demand is super high. The COVID production issues are not as pronounced as you would think either (let's remember that South East Asia has done a better job than the West in response) . If there were so many production issues Nvidia would not be hinting so many cards. What you may not see are the entire 5000, 3000 Nvidia and 6000 series are all very compelling products from a performance perspective. I can go and buy a 5950X right now but Common sense tells me I don't need to spend $800 on a CPU with 24 PCIe lanes. So the 5900X is the CPU but many enthusiasts feel the same way and unless I have my friend at the PC store text me when the 5-7 extra 5900Xs arrive I won't get one unless I am willing to pay exorbitant prices to buy it online.


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## jboydgolfer (Jan 4, 2021)

intel & many other companies are doing a great job maintaining stock & costs low. i ordered a great set of components for my nephews new pc at under $450


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## nuggdoctor (Jan 4, 2021)

kapone32 said:


> Don't believe the hype. Demand is super high. The COVID production issues are not as pronounced as you would think either (let's remember that South East Asia has done a better job than the West in response) . If there were so many production issues Nvidia would not be hinting so many cards. What you may not see are the entire 5000, 3000 Nvidia and 6000 series are all very compelling products from a performance perspective. I can go and buy a 5950X right now but Common sense tells me I don't need to spend $800 on a CPU with 24 PCIe lanes. So the 5900X is the CPU but many enthusiasts feel the same way and unless I have my friend at the PC store text me when the 5-7 extra 5900Xs arrive I won't get one unless I am willing to pay exorbitant prices to buy it online.


It was hit as lot harder than you think. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/impact-of-covid-19-on-the-global-manufacturing-industry-2020-301042150.html, https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/27/...-coronavirus-lockdown-apple-electronics-china


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## ThrashZone (Jan 4, 2021)

Atomic77 said:


> Well well well way to go y'all rip me a part. All I have to say is some off the shelf computers like this laptop I got from Costco in July 2020 can do a awful lot. its the one pictured in my picture when I post.


Hi,
That's called an avatar interesting choice


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## nuggdoctor (Jan 4, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> View attachment 182389
> 
> Sure I will check it out if you pay for my account.


i took that down. didnt realize it charged. it was the statistics for gpu shipments from 2013 through 2020. the shipments for nvidia ironically enough are the exact same for 2020 as they were in 2013.

heres a bit more into the supply issues. this is back in november. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-rtx-30-series-to-be-in-short-supply-into-2021


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## FireFox (Jan 4, 2021)

I bought, Ram, CPU, NVMe SSD and Motherboard, some hardware in November and the rest early December, Discounted, same thing the GPU


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## nuggdoctor (Jan 4, 2021)

Knoxx29 said:


> I bought, Ram, CPU, NVMe SSD and Motherboard, some hardware in November and the rest early December, Discounted, same thing the GPU


intel cpu's have not been in short supply so their price really isnt affected. its more about the people wanting amd. And i was wondering what the temps are with that alphacooler. i want to go from my 240mm to a 360 and they have a couple that interest me.


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## phanbuey (Jan 4, 2021)

Graphics cards are probably universally the worst thing about building right now... maybe ITX PSUs as well if you're building high-end mini itx.


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## nuggdoctor (Jan 4, 2021)

phanbuey said:


> Graphics cards are probably universally the worst thing about building right now... maybe ITX PSUs as well if you're building high-end mini itx.


Ive seen some good deals on psu's on ebay. Got my evga 850BQ for 85$ brand new. the guy was going to build 3 rigs. built 2 and then quit so he scrapped the 3rd psu. I had to snag it since theyre usually 140ish new.


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## ThrashZone (Jan 4, 2021)

phanbuey said:


> Graphics cards are probably universally the worst thing about building right now... maybe ITX PSUs as well if you're building high-end mini itx.


Hi,
New tech in general is an issue and always has been.


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## phanbuey (Jan 4, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> New tech in general is an issue and always has been.


my almost 2 y/o 2080ti is selling for more than when I bought it... definitely not just new tech - even high-end old tech. 

5700xt is going from $400-$600...









						5700xt | Newegg.com
					

Search Newegg.com for 5700xt. Get fast shipping and top-rated customer service.




					www.newegg.com


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## kapone32 (Jan 4, 2021)

phanbuey said:


> my almost 2 y/o 2080ti is selling for more than when I bought it... definitely not just new tech - even high-end old tech.
> 
> 5700xt is going from $400-$600...
> 
> ...


Demand for anything decent is super high. The expensive or maligned MBs are available but anything with good ratings and decent prices is very low. One of the interesting things I have seen is any decent case that is in the $100 range goes out of stock quickly (Corsair 4000D Airflow).


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## ThrashZone (Jan 4, 2021)

phanbuey said:


> my almost 2 y/o 2080ti is selling for more than when I bought it... definitely not just new tech - even high-end old tech.
> 
> 5700xt is going from $400-$600...
> 
> ...


Hi,
If new tech were easily found in retail stores 2080ti/... prices would tank just like it always eventually does.


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## FireFox (Jan 4, 2021)

nuggdoctor said:


> intel cpu's have not been in short supply so their price really isnt affected. its more about the people wanting amd. And i was wondering what the temps are with that alphacooler. i want to go from my 240mm to a 360 and they have a couple that interest me.


You are right but when i was looking where to buy the 10700K they were priced 400€+ and some people even were asking 500€/650€, with a bit of patience got 1 for 350€
about the Alphacool Eisbaer 360, i was always against AIOs but this one made me change my mind, at 5.0GHZ the average temps while gaming is 38c/42c, of course the real performance i will see it in summer


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## phanbuey (Jan 4, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> If new tech were easily found in retail stores 2080ti/... prices would tank just like it always eventually does.



I mean if Old tech was available in sufficient quantity then prices would tank too -- the shortage isn't new tech related, there is an overall shortage that would have hit even if new stuff didn't come out.


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## FireFox (Jan 4, 2021)

nuggdoctor said:


> Got my evga 850BQ for 85$ brand new.


I wasn't lucky when buying the PSU, 324€



That hurt me


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## freeagent (Jan 4, 2021)

It’s a crappy time to buy, but great time for cheapish performance. I didn’t want my 3600XT, but it was the same price as the vanilla. I thought Vermeer would be in stock by now.. or else I might have gone with a 10600K instead had I known the wait would be so long. I bought during Black Friday week so everything I bought discounted, except my ram. Well.. I guess since I have to wait like everyone else I can always continue to save for moar corez. But while I was shopping I could have got a 9900k for so effing cheap, even 9700K was same price as my XT. But I was curious what AMD was doing, it’s been awhile. Honestly, they are doing pretty good.


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## Toothless (Jan 4, 2021)

phanbuey said:


> I mean if Old tech was available in sufficient quantity then prices would tank too -- the shortage isn't new tech related, there is an overall shortage that would have hit even if new stuff didn't come out.
> 
> View attachment 182396


So whatcha saying is I can get my money back for my 1080ti.


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## ThrashZone (Jan 4, 2021)

Toothless said:


> So whatcha saying is I can get my money back for my 1080ti.


Hi,
Depends on what you paid
Really it means older hardware wont loose as much value.


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## Toothless (Jan 4, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Depends on what you paid
> Really it means older hardware wont loose as much value.


Well since I said money back, it somewhat heavily implies I paid about what is listed in there.


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## Indurain (Jan 4, 2021)

I had no issue buying a 5950X at MSRP and from Amazon. Had to wait 2 weeks for delivery but still got one. CPUs aren't really an issue if you put in a bit of work and are willing to do a bit of waiting. 5600, 5800 and 5900 come and go in stock every few days. The real problem is getting a GPU, if you don't want to spend stupid money on a 3090 then it is almost impossible to get anything from either AMD or Nvidia.

In my case I am waiting on a GPU, I bought my motherboard and case in April 2020, my RAM in July storage (both m.2 and spinning drives) in August and September, collected all my custom loop parts from April - September. But for me that was the key, waiting for either deals or until there was sufficient stock, I didn't need to have it right now, this minute. Once I decide on a GPU, thinking 3080Ti since I need Cuda specific architecture. If I need to wait until April or May it really doesn't matter, I still have my current PC and besides that Cyberpunk 2077 probably still won't be really fixed until then.

P.S. - I only game about 10% of the time on my PC, I game mostly on console because I am a heathen.


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## Static~Charge (Jan 4, 2021)

Atomic77 said:


> Why  build a computer? Every freaking computer I have ever had has been name brand such as HP and has worked for me for everything I ever needed a computer for. I don't have the brains or the smarts or time to build a pc. Not saying I would ever have one built but in my opinion its a big waste of time.


Why? Because:

I have higher component-quality standards than the likes of HP (or Dell, or Lenovo, or . . .).
I have a different end-goal than the system vendor, not necessarily: maximize profit, minimize cost, clear the old junk out of inventory.
I want my system components to be normal, not proprietary crap that locks me into one vendor.
In short, I like my PC to be tailor-made, not an off-the-rack, one-size-fits-all machine.


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## cst1992 (Jan 4, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Lets be honest, it's always a bad time to build a new computer. There's at least half a dozen components to buy and they all have their own supply/pricing issues.


Today, I really wish I were back in November 2015 when I built my current PC. I got even a Strix 970 for pretty cheap, and there were lots of reasonably priced choices of components. I also got the top-tier i5 4690k for only INR 17,850($245 in today's dollars). Now, I think I'll have to spend anywhere between INR 25,000 to INR 30,000 to get a decent Intel or AMD CPU. Same thing for the motherboard.


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## nuggdoctor (Jan 4, 2021)

Indurain said:


> I had no issue buying a 5950X at MSRP and from Amazon. Had to wait 2 weeks for delivery but still got one. CPUs aren't really an issue if you put in a bit of work and are willing to do a bit of waiting. 5600, 5800 and 5900 come and go in stock every few days. The real problem is getting a GPU, if you don't want to spend stupid money on a 3090 then it is almost impossible to get anything from either AMD or Nvidia.
> 
> In my case I am waiting on a GPU, I bought my motherboard and case in April 2020, my RAM in July storage (both m.2 and spinning drives) in August and September, collected all my custom loop parts from April - September. But for me that was the key, waiting for either deals or until there was sufficient stock, I didn't need to have it right now, this minute. Once I decide on a GPU, thinking 3080Ti since I need Cuda specific architecture. If I need to wait until April or May it really doesn't matter, I still have my current PC and besides that Cyberpunk 2077 probably still won't be really fixed until then.
> 
> P.S. - I only game about 10% of the time on my PC, I game mostly on console because I am a heathen.


Cyberpunk is dead and so is cdpr. Theyre being sued by their own shareholders due to the game. its going to be ugly.
And yes the gpu market is the biggest issue by far. Im waiting on the 20gb 3080ti as well. im betting itll be closer to september or so for the variant i want. evga ftw hybrid version. they did the 3090 so i am betting theyll do the 3080ti too.


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## Splinterdog (Jan 4, 2021)

nuggdoctor said:


> Cyberpunk is dead and so is cdpr.


Hold your beer...


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## RJARRRPCGP (Jan 5, 2021)

cst1992 said:


> I got even a Strix 970 for pretty cheap


I remember being excited to get one second hand on May 29, 2019.  When my best rig and daily driver, was an Asus P6T Deluxe and Core i7 Extreme 965. (Bloomfield) (45nm)


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## Durvelle27 (Jan 5, 2021)

Ehhh I’m building now

waiting will make no difference


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## RJARRRPCGP (Jan 5, 2021)

nuggdoctor said:


> Cyberpunk is dead and so is cdpr. Theyre being sued by their own shareholders due to the game. its going to be ugly.
> And yes the gpu market is the biggest issue by far. Im waiting on the 20gb 3080ti as well. im betting itll be closer to september or so for the variant i want. evga ftw hybrid version. they did the 3090 so i am betting theyll do the 3080ti too.


Why? Was Cyberpunk 2077 being so poorly optimized? Does it require a video card that most people are prohibited from obtaining?


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## Blue4130 (Jan 5, 2021)

nuggdoctor said:


> It was hit as lot harder than you think. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/impact-of-covid-19-on-the-global-manufacturing-industry-2020-301042150.html, https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/27/...-coronavirus-lockdown-apple-electronics-china


Those links are from almost a year ago. I live in china, I can tell you first hand that manufacturers are and have been running as normal for nearly half a year.


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## Dixie (Jan 5, 2021)

I'm building a new computer.  I'm buying one part a month.  Got my case today.  Corsair 750D.  Love that case!

It will be April before I get to my GPU so I'm good.  But I'm glad to know that.  My GPU is nearly out of stock everywhere right now.  I want that elusive ROG Strix RTX 3080...  Hopefully by April it will be cheaper.  And maybe the 3090 will be within my reach!


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## Atomic77 (Jan 5, 2021)

These days every industry including technology is effected by the dreaded Covid 19 Pandemic. I can see why people would wanna wait for a while before doing anything.


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## Dixie (Jan 5, 2021)

Atomic77 said:


> These days every industry including technology is effected by the dreaded Covid 19 Pandemic. I can see why people would wanna wait for a while before doing anything.


It's scary to spend money when most don't know what's happening with their jobs.  I'm lucky to be retired right now.  Covid doesn't effect my income. And my husband has a secure position in his job. We are two of the lucky ones.


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## rtwjunkie (Jan 5, 2021)

nuggdoctor said:


> Cyberpunk is dead and so is cdpr.


What a delusional world you live in.


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## nuggdoctor (Jan 5, 2021)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> Why? Was Cyberpunk 2077 being so poorly optimized? Does it require a video card that most people are prohibited from obtaining?


Cyberpunk is so unplayable on last gen consoles due to bugs to the point sony pulled it from the marketplace and everyone had to offer refunds and theyre being sued by their own shareholders.









						Too Big To Fail: Why ‘Cyberpunk 2077’ Is A Massive Success Despite Being A Massive Failure
					

'Cyberpunk 2077' is buggy, on PC and outright busted on Xbox One and PS4. Despite that, it's a giant success.




					www.forbes.com
				




If it had any multiplayer or any other dynamic it would have gone the way of no mans sky and anthem.


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## cst1992 (Jan 5, 2021)

Blue4130 said:


> manufacturers are and have been running as normal for nearly half a year.


They are? Why the shortages then? The scalpers?


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## nuggdoctor (Jan 5, 2021)

from what ive read, china didnt really get back to normal until october 2020. and the global shortage of ddr6 isnt helping anything either. https://www.npr.org/2020/10/19/9252...ces-back-as-pandemic-is-brought-under-control , https://www.techradar.com/news/the-...d-shortage-could-continue-until-february-2021

and like it states. february will end the shortage and then april will be 2 months of full production later. That makes april a decent time to gpu shop


----------



## Frick (Jan 5, 2021)

nuggdoctor said:


> well. if all you do is watch a few youtube vids and play on facebook or twitter and maybe watch 1080p movies on netflix then a basic barebones pc that you get from best buy or walmart will honestly be just fine. But if you want to play games at high frame rates and at the best settings and resolutions then there is NOTHING you can get from any name brand pc company that youll find on a store shelf that will do it.



Apart from all those Omens and Legions and Predators with Ampere cards and i7/i9 CPUs you mean?


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Jan 5, 2021)

Like @Durvelle27 said, I'm building now regardless because there is no good time or bad time to build a PC. If you wait til (insert month here)  new X CPU or GPU is right around the corner, so then you wait some more...and then said CPU and/orGPU release date comes and it turns out to be a paper launch...so then you wait even longer for said parts to become readily available to buy -- and who knows when that's gonna happen!


----------



## nuggdoctor (Jan 5, 2021)

Frick said:


> Apart from all those Omens and Legions and Predators with Ampere cards and i7/i9 CPUs you mean?


yes with their whopping 1660 ti for 1200$ lmao

have fun paying this for my 3 year old gpu lmao. got mine on ebay used for $380 a few months ago. https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-GeForce...rds=1080+ti+ftw3+hybrid&qid=1609828418&sr=8-1

2070 supers are now 930$ on amazon. msrp at launch was 500. good luck finding one for that used. theyre 600 used on ebay lmao. https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-GeForce...d=1&keywords=2070+super&qid=1609828505&sr=8-1 , https://www.ebay.com/i/353321932359...1291&msclkid=7e0c9f647bdf1b85c43cc09072c248b8


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Jan 5, 2021)

Frick said:


> Apart from all those Omens and Legions and Predators with Ampere cards and i7/i9 CPUs you mean?





nuggdoctor said:


> yes with their whopping 1660 ti for 1200$ lmao



I believe Frick said AMPERE, not TURING. 

Also, what's wrong with the 1660 ti and by definition, 1660 super? That's what I game with and it does just fine, thank ya very much! 

Ah well, I guess I'm beneath you


----------



## nuggdoctor (Jan 5, 2021)

considering that that gpu has an msrp of 279$ and they are charging you 450 to 574$ depending on version. sounds like a great bargain to me.

its a great card but not at the prices they are charging right now.


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Jan 5, 2021)

Not a problem for me. I bought my 1660 Super months ago, before the shit hit the fan


----------



## cst1992 (Jan 5, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Also, what's wrong with the 1660 ti and by definition, 1660 super? That's what I game with and it does just fine, thank ya very much!
> 
> Ah well, I guess I'm beneath you


I don't think there's anything wrong with the 1660Ti either.
When it had launched, I seriously considered getting one, because it was twice as fast as my 970 and not really very expensive.
However, I had no problems with my 970, so I passed it on.


----------



## nuggdoctor (Jan 5, 2021)

especially when the 3080 starts at 700$ msrp


----------



## cst1992 (Jan 5, 2021)

nuggdoctor said:


> considering that that gpu has an msrp of 279$ and they are charging you 450 to 574$ depending on version. sounds like a great bargain to me.
> 
> its a great card but not at the prices they are charging right now.


eBay is not the only place with scalpers


----------



## nuggdoctor (Jan 5, 2021)

cst1992 said:


> I don't think there's anything wrong with the 1660Ti either.
> When it had launched, I seriously considered getting one, because it was twice as fast as my 970 and not really very expensive.
> However, I had no problems with my 970, so I passed it on.





cst1992 said:


> eBay is not the only place with scalpers


my point exactly. with the ddr6 shortage and the new influx of buyers to the market anything remotely good is double what it should be. EVERYWHERE. not just ebay.


----------



## cst1992 (Jan 5, 2021)

Scalpers are an all-pervasive phenomenon, they're not just in the PC-building industry.
When the earthquake hit Nepal a few years ago, I remember reading in the news about people selling packaged water bottles for INR 500 - whereas on the open market a packaged water bottle sells for INR 20.
It was because of the shortage.
Same thing happening here. The only solution is to wait it out.


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Jan 5, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Not a problem for me. I bought my 1660 Super months ago, before the shit hit the fan


I have one of those from Zotac. The only problem I see with it, when testing it with Unigine Superposition 1080p high, is power throttling a bit at factory GPU boost clock. 
Looks like I only got extra room for the VRAM. The more I brought up the VRAM in MSI Afterburner, the better the Unigine Superposition 1080p high benchmark results were.


----------



## Cranky5150 (Jan 5, 2021)

Don't rebuild or buy until what you have can't run your games or programs to your satisfaction is the best bet.....


----------



## dirtyferret (Jan 5, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Are you lost?
> 
> This isn't a Dell or HP forum


Today I was going to make a new account on an investor site full of experienced investors who do nothing all day but argue over every little minutiae of financial investing and post a thread titled "Don't buy high and sell low!"



nuggdoctor said:


> Cyberpunk is dead and so is cdpr.





rtwjunkie said:


> What a delusional world you live in.


What can you say @rtwjunkie , a company worth almost $400 million that just sold over 13million copies of its newest game (even after refunds) ain't what she used to be


----------



## cst1992 (Jan 5, 2021)

dirtyferret said:


> Today I was going to make a new account on an investor site full of experienced investors who do nothing all day but argue over every little minutiae of financial investing and post a thread titled "Don't buy high and sell low!"


What site?


----------



## dirtyferret (Jan 5, 2021)

cst1992 said:


> What site?


Maybe bogleheads, you have a better site?


----------



## milewski1015 (Jan 5, 2021)

cst1992 said:


> What site?


Whoooooosh


----------



## nuggdoctor (Jan 5, 2021)

dirtyferret said:


> Today I was going to make a new account on an investor site full of experienced investors who do nothing all day but argue over every little minutiae of financial investing and post a thread titled "Don't buy high and sell low!"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


when a company loses one third of its value and is being sued by its own shareholders, is considered being successful? the companies net worth isnt their money. or their real value. Its what their SHAREHOLDERS have invested that makes a company have value and when those people sue you, it tends to turn a companies lights out. And at one point a few years ago they were almost pushed into bankruptcy when they scrapped a game after a lot of r&d money went out. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cd-projekt-loses-third-value-124013090.html


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 6, 2021)

nuggdoctor said:


> when a company loses one third of its value and is being sued by its own shareholders, is considered being successful? the companies net worth isnt their money. or their real value. Its what their SHAREHOLDERS have invested that makes a company have value and when those people sue you, it tends to turn a companies lights out. And at one point a few years ago they were almost pushed into bankruptcy when they scrapped a game after a lot of r&d money went out. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cd-projekt-loses-third-value-124013090.html


You have a serious case of Chicken-Littleism.  You're really not very tuned in. Oh, you can spew some facts alright, but really are just jumping on the ant-hype train at this point.  The company, is not done, not finished. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

Since you like figures, why don't you tell us all what branch of CD Projekt funds the company in its day to day functions, including (most of) its multi-year developments? Once you can answer that you'll understand why they are not done and cease this "CDPR is finished" nonsense.


----------



## dirtyferret (Jan 6, 2021)

milewski1015 said:


> Whoooooosh


 maybe he will look


----------



## nuggdoctor (Jan 6, 2021)

rtwjunkie said:


> You have a serious case of Chicken-Littleism.  You're really not very tuned in. Oh, you can spew some facts alright, but really are just jumping on the ant-hype train at this point.  The company, is not done, not finished. Not by any stretch of the imagination.
> 
> Since you like figures, why don't you tell us all what branch of CD Projekt funds the company in its day to day functions, including (most of) its multi-year developments? Once you can answer that you'll understand why they are not done and cease this "CDPR is finished" nonsense.


lmao. you think because the government of poland did an experiment and funded 38 videogame projects around the country and cdpr managed to get some of those funds 4 -going on 5 years ago that thats going to bail them out? give me a break. Not saying i like the idea either. thats just facts. and facts dont care about our feelings. And look on the brightside. When they go on the chopping block, im betting microsoft buys them, just like they did bethesda.

the shareholders OWN 66.44% of the company. so if theyre suing the 4 main owners who is going to keep the company running on the day to day, let alone the forseeable future? "Who are the CD Projekt RED owners?
Iwiński owns 12.79 percent of the company, while Kiciński has a 9.94 percent share of the company. Two other individuals have large shares — Piotr Nielubowicz with 6.81 percent and Adam Kiciński with 4.02 percent. The remaining 66.44 percent of the company is in free float. 
On Dec. 9, CD Projekt RED launched its new game, the futuristic _Cyberpunk 2077_. The game, which had amassed 8 million pre-orders, disappointed many users. They complained about bugs interfering with the game's function." https://marketrealist.com/p/who-owns-cd-projekt-red/

theyre in a similar boat to ubisoft. In the way if they have a botched launch or another failure theyre done. Ubisoft BARELY managed to fight off a hostile takeover by Vivendi entertainment. Origins and rb6 siege saved their asses. https://kotaku.com/vivendis-attempt...over,acquire any more for the next five years.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 6, 2021)

nuggdoctor said:


> lmao. you think because the government of poland did an experiment and funded 38 videogame projects around the country and cdpr managed to get some of those funds 4 -going on 5 years ago that thats going to bail them out? give me a break. Not saying i like the idea either. thats just facts. and facts dont care about our feelings. And look on the brightside. When they go on the chopping block, im betting microsoft buys them, just like they did bethesda.
> 
> the shareholders OWN 66.44% of the company. so if theyre suing the 4 main owners who is going to keep the company running on the day to day, let alone the forseeable future? "Who are the CD Projekt RED owners?
> Iwiński owns 12.79 percent of the company, while Kiciński has a 9.94 percent share of the company. Two other individuals have large shares — Piotr Nielubowicz with 6.81 percent and Adam Kiciński with 4.02 percent. The remaining 66.44 percent of the company is in free float.
> ...


Well, you failed to answer the question correctly despite the wall of text. You have no clue what branch of the company funds CD Projekt, of which btw, CDPR is only one branch.

Welcome to TPU and my ignore list, which is where blowhard know-it-alls that don’t know anything go. You did it in record time.


----------



## erocker (Jan 6, 2021)

nuggdoctor said:


> By april AMD cpu's will be available and so will most of nvidia and amd gpu's. right now to build with new parts you have to pay scalper prices. And by april production will resume to normal capacities and so will shipping, so a lot more of the item people need to build with with be available for much much cheaper.


I'm not so sure on this. Maybe Nvidia has the best chance, but with AMD having to supply Microsoft, Sony and themselves I can't see their stock improving much. I'm thinking it's going to be a long year.... again. I really hope you're right though!


----------



## nuggdoctor (Jan 6, 2021)

erocker said:


> I'm not so sure on this. Maybe Nvidia has the best chance, but with AMD having to supply Microsoft, Sony and themselves I can't see their stock improving much. I'm thinking it's going to be a long year.... again. I really hope you're right though!


If they did everything in house the way intel does ild be inclined to agree with you. BUT AMD outsources a HUGE amount of their production to not just other companies but other countries and they will easily be able to fill their production holes very soon. if they havent already. They started outsourcing in 2003 but signed their contracts to do it starting in 2001. https://www.zdnet.com/article/amd-to-outsource-manufacturing/

Thats also why there are some trying to convince intel to do the same. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...el-to-outsource-cpu-manufacturing/?comments=1


----------



## Jetster (Jan 6, 2021)

I just built two


----------



## nuggdoctor (Jan 6, 2021)

rtwjunkie said:


> Well, you failed to answer the question correctly despite the wall of text. You have no clue what branch of the company funds CD Projekt, of which btw, CDPR is only one branch.
> 
> Welcome to TPU and my ignore list, which is where blowhard know-it-alls that don’t know anything go. You did it in record time.


lmao. If they have private money funding that isnt listed here ild like to see it. https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/investors/financial-summary-report/

Every reason they list in this article as to why cdpr wont sell to microsoft is now moot since cyberbug epicly failed. and the shareholders want the profits they should have mad ehad the game not been a disaster. https://www.tweaktown.com/news/69416/cd-projekt-red-reason-sell-microsoft/index.html


----------



## 95Viper (Jan 6, 2021)

Thread has turned into a general discussion of this and that... some of which is off topic.
Get it back to the topic; and, within the bounds of System Builders Advice.

Thank You and have a good one.


----------



## nuggdoctor (Jan 6, 2021)

looks like all gpu's and cpu's that come out of china are going to be more expensive now that the trade deal stuff from 2018 is going to start kicking in. i was reading that gpu prices are set to go up a minimum of 80$ because of the trade deal.


----------



## dirtyferret (Jan 6, 2021)

nuggdoctor said:


> the shareholders OWN 66.44% of the company. so if theyre suing the 4 main owners who is going to keep the company running on the day to day, let alone the forseeable future? "Who are the CD Projekt



Shareholders own 100% of a public company (66.44 of which may be outstanding) and you can't sue the four majority shareholders personally for wrongful conduct since it is a corporation (one of the benefits of being incorporated), you can only sue the company.   Also companies have a thing called liability insurance to cover lawsuits...


----------



## Tom Sunday (Jan 6, 2021)

INTEL BUZZ: Looks like it's best to hold-on to my "upgrade money" until later this year and to check-out by November Intel's next 12th-generation desktop introduction. With "Alder Lake" Intel plans to make historic changes with its 12th generation line of much improved and more powerful processors supported and mandated onto a brand new LGA 1700 socket. Motherboard manufactures are delighted as well to be double-dipping in their sales offerings and all within a one years time. Coming soon and tauted also is DDR5 and PCIE 5.0 later this year. How can I resist having to own the latest and the greatest and more lanes to drive and to go faster? It appears that the Alder Lake CPU has a rectangular shape (many more pins and thus power) with exact dimensions of 37.5mmx 45.0mm, whereas all  the existing  Intel gen CPU's are square-shaped with a perfect square of 37.5mm x 37.5mm. Upgrading right now with the already outgoing and ready to be discontinued Intel 10th generation or next weeks officially announced very shortlived 11th generation (Z590) appears to be a mistake. Simply one would be outdated in 7-months time if buying Rocket Lake. It's not very often that Intel is proffering two generations of CPU's all within a few  months of each other. And then gracefully allowing us all of these fine and many choices. I guess AMD has put on the heat? Whereby I only have my wallet to hold on too for now.


----------



## ThrashZone (Jan 6, 2021)

nuggdoctor said:


> looks like all gpu's and cpu's that come out of china are going to be more expensive now that the trade deal stuff from 2018 is going to start kicking in. i was reading that gpu prices are set to go up a minimum of 80$ because of the trade deal.


Hi,
Not much comes out of China anymore and if it does it doesn't take long before it gets subbed to another Country for finish boxing and shipping out.


----------



## Fry178 (Jan 6, 2021)

So ppl that sold/dont have a rig anymore, should not have one until then? lol
i have build 2 rigs in the past 3 month (just finished the last one 2 weeks ago),
and didnt pay anything more than msrp/i did before, some stuff was even cheaper (ram/nvme).

just because "10" items are overpriced, doesnt mean everything is,
nor does it mean i cant find deals using a web search, as there are other places than BB or walmart...

@RJARRRPCGP
yeah, sounds great.
lets spend more than half a grand on the cpu, and then cheap out on the board, to save "50$".
this in a micro case without exhaust fan, and a 1000w no name psu for 25$, are the perfect match for that combo...
(sarcasm mode: off).


----------



## purecain (Jan 6, 2021)

The trouble we have atm is Covid and weather our governments are ever going to stop accepting 300billion lump sums of debt, for putting us in yet another lockdown. The world Bank is the influencer here. 

So knowing this situation might continue for another 12 months at least, made me panic buy and ive managed to get a 5950x and sell my 3900x at an affordable £350 which is a bargain for the buyer. Went to a good home aswell so I'm happy. I'm still waiting for my EVGA RTX3090, although lucky for me delivery is set for tomorrow. 
When that happens someone will pickup a Titan V cheap. 
If anyone is building a pc right now, just research each item and check all of the forums and selling sites untill you get your hardware together, but do not pay scalping prices. I take a lot of pleasure from enabling a build that would otherwise of been unaffordable for that person. The OP is right and it isntr the best time to buy a pc but we are in unprecedented times. The last time our governments tried forcing the unscientific germ theory on us with the whole mask situation the people instantly rebelled. Similar to what has actually happened in the UK only the media wasnt bought out completely and the people got wind of what was happening and the government caved immediatly. This time we are in serious trouble. Order followers are allowing the UK to be turned into one big GULAG/Re education centre!!!! We had just proved that you dont catch a cold or the flu. That once a year our body's naturally flush, this is known as the FLU...sssshhh!


----------



## Fry178 (Jan 6, 2021)

@purecain
yeah, millions on the planet are dead because of made up pandemic.

not one would argue about wearing a mask/not being close to others if this was ebola.
but im partially happy about that, as its a way for nature to take out the not so smart ppl.
just bad for ppl that do protect themselves but get infected by the morons on this earth..


----------



## jboydgolfer (Jan 6, 2021)

Fry178 said:


> the morons on this earth


you rang?


----------



## dirtyferret (Jan 6, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Not much comes out of China anymore and if it does it doesn't take long before it gets subbed to another Country for finish boxing and shipping out.


The US will have shipped in more containers from China in 2020 than any other year, yes you can do the final leg of production or packaging in another country (typically you package in another factory anyway) to get around tariffs but shockingly  we and most other companies pass the cost of tariffs onto the consumer. In fact our shipping cost have increased significantly this holiday season and shipments have been delayed because of a container shortage in China; so many empty containers sitting at port of LA & Long Beach that need to be sent back to Ningbo (Europe is having a similar issue as well).


​


----------



## purecain (Jan 6, 2021)

@Fry178 OMG ignore the Dr's (my step father was a Dr) take the governments advice, not like this has ever been tried before... ooops it has with the Robber barons, but im not here to educate the gullible and easily influenced. Those that havnt studied history have such simple to influence minds.

The only people to die from covid are those who were already dying from other conditions.(why this fact is so hard to reconcile for the TV watches out there).  Think otherwise if you will... Your simply part pf the problem, not the solution IMO.
Its pure ignorance to repeat the media. Go look at the last 300yrs of history and then come back and start telling us who the problem is. Talking about infecting people. OMG Do you even own a real microscope????








						Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)
					

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.




					www.cdc.gov
				




BTW i thought China was having serious problems with food shortages, thus sending out the flotilla of fishing vessels which were stopped and arrested.
China is supposed to be making a bid to take over Taiwan. The USA has just sent its navy to support the Island nations independence.
War is on the cards, IMO!








						China’s Military Actions Against Taiwan in 2021: What to Expect
					

A look at the security environment facing Taiwan in the upcoming year.



					thediplomat.com


----------



## sanJkelty (Jan 6, 2021)

I don't need to build new one. I'm happy with my old one..


----------



## dirtyferret (Jan 6, 2021)

purecain said:


> @Fry178
> The only people to die from covid are those who were already dying from other conditions.(why this fact is so hard to reconcile for the TV watches out there).  Think otherwise if you will... Your simply part pf the problem, not the solution IMO.
> Its pure ignorance to repeat the media. Go look at the last 300yrs of history and then come back and start telling us who the problem is. Talking about infecting people. OMG Do you even own a real microscope????


My wife's co-worker's brother was 32 and working as a fitness trainer.  He was perfectly healthy, extremely fit, no prior conditions, got it and died.  They said he was "too healthy" for the disease.  
Several people in my town are in their 30 & 40's and had to go to the ICU because of covid yet they were healthy.  
In the neighboring town a bus driver in his 30's got it and died, don't think he was already dying.
A few towns over a nurse got it and gave it to her sister who died, also in her 30's, also not "dying from other conditions"

I have a college friend who got it in March, she has been on meds since then and her 40's.  
My son's teacher got it and was bed ridden for two weeks, still not completely over it and called it "scarry shit" and "would not wish it on his worst enemy".  He is in his late 30's.


----------



## purecain (Jan 6, 2021)

dirtyferret said:


> My wife's co-worker's brother was 32 and working as a fitness trainer.  He was perfectly healthy, extremely fit, no prior conditions, got it and died.  They said he was "too healthy" for the disease.
> Several people in my town are in their 30 & 40's and had to go to the ICU because of covid yet they were healthy.
> In the neighboring town a bus driver in his 30's got it and died, don't think he was already dying.
> A few towns over a nurse got it and gave it to her sister who died, also in her 30's, also not "dying from other conditions"
> ...


So theres no chance that he could of developed meningitus and died. i got it at 14 stone of muscle and it nearly killed me. Of course they hit me with clarythromycin and the antibiotic saved my life. If that was now i'd of been treated as a covid patient and died. Use your head!!!! IMO thios is mass manipulation. People just dont know enough to make the proper deductions.



























I refuse to argue about this, all i can say is educate yourselves please. Do not believe everything your government tells you.

I cant believe I'm having to tell you not to be gullible!!!!! Your friends sisters boyfriends uncle died did he... really!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## dirtyferret (Jan 6, 2021)

purecain said:


> So theres no chance that he could of developed meningitus and died.
> 
> I cant believe I'm having to tell you not to be gullible!!!!! Your friends sisters boyfriends uncle died did he... really!!!!!!!!!!


You have every right to your own opinions and gullibility since that is a you problem but those statements are just ignorant.


----------



## purecain (Jan 6, 2021)

dirtyferret said:


> You have every right to your own opinions and gullibility since that is a you problem but those statements are just ignorant.


I'm not arguing with you. My opinion's were made after long discussions with groups of Doctors and medical professionals. I'm just giving you the truth because I like the forum. I have no other invested interest in helping you. So do what your told. Good luck with that.
I will change my mind when the science doesnt agree with me. I will never wear a Dribble mask!!!!!


----------



## milewski1015 (Jan 6, 2021)

purecain said:


> So theres no chance that he could of developed meningitus and died. i got it at 14 stone of muscle and it nearly killed me. Of course they hit me with clarythromycin and the antibiotic saved my life. If that was now i'd of been treated as a covid patient and died. Use your head!!!! IMO thios is mass manipulation. People just dont know enough to make the proper deductions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Also the moon landing was faked, the Earth is flat, and Tupac is still alive...c'mon man.   

Mass manipulation with what end goal exactly? 

I would respond to this guy's video titles but in an effort to keep things on topic, I'll refrain from doing so.

I'm all for not believing every single thing you hear (like the people who get their information from clickbait article titles on Facebook, etc.), and I encourage people to diversify their information streams to prevent bias, but blatant denial of science is just ignorant, as @dirtyferret said.


----------



## HammerON (Jan 6, 2021)

95Viper said:


> Thread has turned into a general discussion of this and that... some of which is off topic.
> Get it back to the topic; and, within the bounds of System Builders Advice.
> 
> Thank You and have a good one.


This is the second warning now (see @95Viper first warning).  Some folks have been given a posting holiday for this thread.  Next, points are being handed out.
Carry on~


----------



## Upgrayedd (Jan 8, 2021)

If you can get the parts then build it now it you want it now.

 Will there be more stock available in April? Maybe? Maybe not? Some really weird advice..

I've had my chance multiple times for Vermeer at microcenter but simply decided against because of its price. $450 for an 8 core stuck to certain RAM frequencies can kick rocks.


----------



## Convexrook (Jan 8, 2021)

I plan a full rebuild once my wife gets her beauty products


----------



## Atomic77 (Jan 8, 2021)

I guess the point im trying to get across is why build in the first place? you know as well as I know no matter what you do there will always be bigger and better as with most technology these days you are outdated the moment you get it.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 8, 2021)

Atomic77 said:


> I guess the point im trying to get across is why build in the first place? you know as well as I know no matter what you do there will always be bigger and better as with most technology these days you are outdated the moment you get it.


Why build? Because I am able to build something to my standards and needs exactly, that will last a good long time. You only need to upgrade some components during its life, as others age just fine. Who cares when its outdated? That’s just an epeen contest for the most part. Even recently outdated computers one builds are just fine for quite awhile, depending on your use of it.

No, we enthusiasts that build computers should not be looking down on people that don’t. Each person knows what is right for them. But to be on an enthusiast site and argue that enthusiasts are basically idiots that are wasting their time for getting the exact system they want with the satisfaction of successfully doing it is plain insulting. This isn’t the first thread you’ve taken this attitude in either. Let it go.


----------



## Upgrayedd (Jan 8, 2021)

Atomic77 said:


> I guess the point im trying to get across is why build in the first place? you know as well as I know no matter what you do there will always be bigger and better as with most technology these days you are outdated the moment you get it.


Why not if you know how or know someone who does? You get better warranties, better components for the same price, built just how you want/need. 
The DOA mentality is just bad, you'd be waiting forever and ever for the next best thing. You will pretty much never get the biggest and baddest from a prebuilt, you can but you pay a disgusting premium for it. It might have an i9 and a 3080 buts its most likely in a subpar motherboard along with the cheapest 3080 HP could get their hands on.


----------



## Jetster (Jan 8, 2021)

Why build in the first place:

For the love of technology, electronics. As a child i broke everything I touched but loved taking stuff apart. I built radios as a teen and computers.
Building computers is relaxing, it's something I've learned I can control. When they do fail, I like troubleshooting, the process of elimination, testing,
custom builds and programing. Upgrades are more frequent, no need to replace a PSU or case. I've had the same case for 10 years.
I look forward to the next generation and what it can do.

When I'm given a OEM for repair. I see how they it's built and how they speculate on making money. Where they cut corners. Most companies are pretty good at
getting every penny out of a part. Sending a PC in for repair is expensive even with a warrantee. They will have access to your data. Part replacement is fairly straight forward.


Good question


----------



## Atomic77 (Jan 8, 2021)

I have had prebuilts my whole life and they have done everything I had ever needed them too. I’m 43 now and I don’t ever see myself building one. For those that can and wanna go ahead. To each their own.


----------



## Vayra86 (Jan 8, 2021)

300BaudBob said:


> I'll admit my jokes keep falling pretty flat here... but it's the way I'm built to keep trying



Keep at it. I just keep doing that too until people get so annoyed they start laughing after all



Atomic77 said:


> I have had prebuilts my whole life and they have done everything I had ever needed them too. I’m 43 now and I don’t ever see myself building one. For those that can and wanna go ahead. To each their own.


People often think about purpose in life - and hardly ever really find it.

We just build PCs. Try it sometime, really, its a liberating experience 



Atomic77 said:


> I guess the point im trying to get across is why build in the first place? you know as well as I know no matter what you do there will always be bigger and better as with most technology these days you are outdated the moment you get it.


There is always bigger and better, but there isn't the ideal balance of price, performance and quality of life features to be found in most prebuilt systems. Especially laptops - they all find some or another way to suck pretty hard.

In summary;
- More bang for buck (same name part can perform better in a self built system)
- Better balance of noise profile / cooling - this also affects performance
- No bloatware and a clean install of whatever OS you want
- Warranty per part
- Replacement per part. This inspires buying better _parts_ to make a better _whole._ Prebuilts are stuck with all sorts of limitations for upgrades.
- Expandability. The system can grow along with your needs/wants
- You're not stuck with a company and its financial day to day or policy changes for product ranges. Individual parts keep support much longer than prebuilt systems, simply because there's too many in the market to ignore. BIOS updates for example.

If you can somehow use a desktop, getting it prebuilt is easily the less optimal solution. If you need smaller form factors, that might change. NUC-type solutions for example are hard to build, it kinda stops at ITX and that already limits you pretty badly.

And last, there is of course a lot of emotion attached to it as well. I'm sure you can imagine, if you've run a configurator for prebuilt systems at whatever company at some point. Its essentially the same ordeal of 'pick your parts' except now the price tags are predetermined and the selection is very limited. For DIY, the price is highly flexible and the selection is infinite. Like kids in a candy shop!


----------



## Chomiq (Jan 22, 2021)

Analysis from Igor's Lab:








						More details and background on the shortage - why graphics cards are so hard to buy (and produce) | igor'sLAB
					

Currently, everything is somehow scarce. It doesn't matter whether it's graphics cards, motherboards or simple "white goods" (like washing machines) including spare parts from the household appliance…




					www.igorslab.de
				



Basically, wider availability in second half of the year is wishful thinking from AMD and Nvidia.


----------



## qubit (Jan 22, 2021)

nuggdoctor said:


> My opinion to people is DONT build right now. its the worst time in years to build a pc. Wait until april for stock to catch back up and for production to get back to normal and prices will drop.


Agreed. I'm waiting for some variant of a 3080 to become generally available (likely an improved version by then) and the release of Intel's Rocket Lake, which looks like it will have the best framerates. We have to wait for benchmarks and whatever AMD has to offer then to know for sure, though.

I'm guesstimating June onwards.


----------



## witkazy (Jan 22, 2021)

I would laugh my ass off if 3000 from nvidia and 6000 from amd never actually become available and both teams just lounch new product ,next gen that is


----------



## Atomic77 (Jan 23, 2021)

So like um ah what makes April the special month for PC builders? Not that I would ever build one but I  would think that someone could build a computer anytime of the year with out problem. I bought my current laptop in July of 2020.


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Jan 23, 2021)

Fry178 said:


> @RJARRRPCGP
> yeah, sounds great.
> lets spend more than half a grand on the cpu, and then cheap out on the board, to save "50$".
> this in a micro case without exhaust fan, and a 1000w no name psu for 25$, are the perfect match for that combo...
> (sarcasm mode: off).


What? I'm definitely not the kind to do that, LOL. In fact this month, I got another PSU for another build that hopefully didn't turn into a turd! It's an eVGA 650 GQ. I just built a Z490 setup with a Core i5 10600K.
It's installed into an old case that's designed well, especially when it comes to inserting PCI-E cards.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 23, 2021)

qubit said:


> Agreed. I'm waiting for some variant of a 3080 to become generally available (likely an improved version by then) and the release of Intel's Rocket Lake, which looks like it will have the best framerates. We have to wait for benchmarks and whatever AMD has to offer then to know for sure, though.
> 
> I'm guesstimating June onwards.



People love memeing Rocket Lake, but it seems like it might actually have a decent chance at availability. At this point there's pretty much nothing else sharing the 14nm process (Comet Lake-H is old stuff, Ice Lake is 10nm, Tiger Lake is Superfin, Ice Lake servers are starting now on 10nm), which itself hasn't really changed since Comet Lake. 14nm hasn't really had a huge drought either since 9900K.

But our supply chains up north here have got to improve. Been waiting on my 5900X for 3.5 months now and the retailer is telling me that they've received less than 2 dozen inventory from AMD in those 3.5 months.

Though on that front I don't think Intel for recent launches has done anything as egregious as sending a whopping total of 5 CPUs to a retailer on launch, so like I said, cautiously looking out for RKL. If it does launch on time and with good availability and my 5900X still hasn't shown up by then, well...

If nothing else, we'll find out if the "all this is due to increased demand" holds any water.


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Jan 23, 2021)

witkazy said:


> I would laugh my ass off if 3000 from nvidia and 6000 from amd never actually become available and both teams just lounch new product ,next gen that is


Why is the current malarkey starting to remind me of the GeForce 7800 GTX in 2005 and 2006?


----------



## HawkFest (Jan 23, 2021)

Yeah that would be "logical"... However it's not necessarily true (I just bought parts for a good price)... If you know those parts you want to build with, along their MSRP (with a minimal experience as a PC part buyer in order to know if the price is correct or not), then don't wait. Go ahead and compare those prices between different resellers. I just bought a PC case Lian Li Dynamic XL for a very good price, a bunch of nVME 970 EVO Plus also at an excellent price (well under MSRP), etc. I Mean, in fact if you can be patient in believing that "_prices will get better thus I'd wait"_, then wait for any good price under MSRP you can find for your parts, but *don't wait* in order to constantly look for them regularly (like make a "tour" every day or every week).


----------



## Toothless (Jan 23, 2021)

Atomic77 said:


> So like um ah what makes April the special month for PC builders? Not that I would ever build one but I  would think that someone could build a computer anytime of the year with out problem. I bought my current laptop in July of 2020.


If you don't build, not have issues waiting for parts to come in, have issue with supply chains, nor have to worry about prices, then of course you don't get it.


----------



## qubit (Jan 23, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> People love memeing Rocket Lake, but it seems like it might actually have a decent chance at availability. At this point there's pretty much nothing else sharing the 14nm process (Comet Lake-H is old stuff, Ice Lake is 10nm, Tiger Lake is Superfin, Ice Lake servers are starting now on 10nm), which itself hasn't really changed since Comet Lake. 14nm hasn't really had a huge drought either since 9900K.
> 
> But our supply chains up north here have got to improve. Been waiting on my 5900X for 3.5 months now and the retailer is telling me that they've received less than 2 dozen inventory from AMD in those 3.5 months.
> 
> ...


So it's the manufacturers withholding product that's causing the shortages. Doesn't make sense really, because they're holding back there own profits. Maybe they can't make them in enough volume?


----------



## Jetster (Jan 23, 2021)

They are hold back their products because their vendors are holding back parts.


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (Jan 23, 2021)

qubit said:


> So it's the manufacturers withholding product that's causing the shortages. Doesn't make sense really, because they're holding back there own profits. Maybe they can't make them in enough volume?



A manufacturer will only withhold product if it's forced to by some factor outside their control.  The whole process is so optimized that any delay costs money, as you said.  This is particularly true in mature, competitive markets with publicly traded companies.  When you can't deliver, buyers go to your competitor, which damages market share.  Unsold product is unrealized revenue, which hurts cash flow, which hurts operations.  All of those things make investors mad, which risks drop in stock price, and that's basically all that matters in the world of big business and finance, unfortunately.

Which factors are the biggest contributors to the PC component debacle is up for debate, but that's not ultimately important.  My observation over the past year or so is that the supply chain for almost all manufactured goods is so tightly optimized (there I go using that word again) that ANY disruption throws the entire thing out of whack.  To cite another computing-related example, was it DRAM where a single fab was down for a few hours recently, and analysts were predicting a double-digit-percent rise in prices later in the year because of it?  I'm probably getting the details wrong, and pricing may not have gone as predicted, but I hope it serves to illustrate the point.


----------



## dirtyferret (Jan 23, 2021)

Jetster said:


> They are hold back their products because their vendors are holding back parts.


this along with transportation

Cost of shipping has gone up over 100% for us in December and January and as a country we set a record for shipments coming in from China for 2020.  Port of LA and Port of LB are so backed up there is a city of ships anchored outside the ports waiting to drop off their containers.  We have two containers of goods in the US for over three weeks and we just got the first container on a train for warehouse delivery (typical turn around is less than a week).  China also has a lack of containers to put goods in to ship to the US and Europe as both are filled with empty containers that need to go back to China.  We recently had a truck of goods turned around in Ningbo because it tried to drop off our goods at two different holding warehouses (they pack the containers before they go on a ship) and both warehouses were full to the max;  That's never happened to us.  Everyone is rushing to get thier goods in before the Chinese new year in February when the factories shut down for almost the entire month while many of the Chinese citizens trave during the holiday.  Our factories are fearing another shut down after the holiday as covid may spike again.








						Ports See ‘Unprecedented Amount of Cargo Volume’ - Los Angeles Business Journal
					

While local freeways remain relatively open thanks to the Regional Stay at Home Order, traffic congestion at the San Pedro Bay complex shows no signs of letting up.




					labusinessjournal.com


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Jan 23, 2021)

Tom Sunday said:


> very shortlived 11th generation (Z590) appears to be a mistake. Simply one would be outdated in 7-months time if buying Rocket Lake.


Sounds like it will be like socket 423!


----------



## tabascosauz (Jan 23, 2021)

qubit said:


> So it's the manufacturers withholding product that's causing the shortages. Doesn't make sense really, because they're holding back there own profits. Maybe they can't make them in enough volume?



Up here on this side of Canada seems that way, yeah. Europe's 5000 availability was good at launch and only has been getting better. US has been getting better. East coast is debatable but getting better. We've only been getting tumbleweeds. But at the same time it's also the case with RTX 20, RTX 30, RX5000 and RX6000 so I'm not sure if it just all comes down to dogshit logistics or every company relegating us to third world status. 

Ryzen 3000 was kinda lucky in that AMD moved into the spot right when Apple moved off N7FF onto N7P. Now they went and put all their eggs into the same basket putting Vermeer, Navi 21, Cezanne and both consoles on N7FF. 

I can understand availability at launch being so poor. But 0 availability at 3.5 months in? GPUs kinda, but never have I seen a CPU launch like this. I just don't see this happening to Rocket Lake. The fabs are still Intel's, it's still 14nm, everyone universally hates Rocket Lake, etc...


----------



## Hachi_Roku256563 (Jan 23, 2021)

i built my first build 389 days ago
it was a really good time to build my dream pc


----------



## ThrashZone (Jan 23, 2021)

Isaac` said:


> i built my first build 389 days ago
> it was a really good time to build my dream pc


Hi,
Must add this dream machine to your system spec's man


----------



## Hachi_Roku256563 (Jan 23, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Must add this dream machine to your system spec's man


It's a 3200g and a 580 now a 1060 low end system


----------



## Final_Fighter (Jan 23, 2021)

If anybodys wants to build a pc, now is the time. Things are not looking to get better. Energy sector wise, the U.S has no replacement for oil yet we are cutting jobs without building the replacement, adding 11mil people to a workforce that is declining in available jobs, new rounds of lock downs, capital under marshal law, infalation threw the roof, china pushing the limits on Taiwan with no response from the U.S. and the list goes on. if you want to build a pc, nows the time to do it. 3000 dollar stimulus every 3 months is not enough here in the U.S. to cover 2 months of mortgages for most home owners. Also lenders are going to not be lending to buyers with "average credit" because they wont be able to evict them in the coming days. i know this sounds like a rant but this is the state of the U.S. facts stand on thier own and if you think other countrys are going to start welcoming americans "free money" you have another thing coming. buy that pc now.


----------



## Jetster (Jan 23, 2021)

Biden will drop tariffs, so prices will drop on parts from the east. There are jobs out there, no inflation yet. The oil industry has most of the congress on the payroll so its not going anywhere soon. Yes he stopped pipeline but that back fire on him. Now is not the time to be buying parts


----------



## Final_Fighter (Jan 23, 2021)

Jetster said:


> Biden will drop tariffs, so prices will drop on parts from the east. There are jobs out there, no inflation yet. The oil industry has most of the congress on the payroll so its not going anywhere soon. Yes he stopped pipeline but that back fire on him. Now is not the time to be buying parts


i believe the markets will eventually work things out and i hope that YOU are right and I AM WRONG. history has a way of repeating itself and most people who worked energy sector will have a much lower standard of living in many other jobs. most everybody who i have talked to and know that work oil make close to if not more than 6 figures. i know it seems like these people can just get another job but it is much harder for many of the welders to switch careers along with drivers, rig operators and so forth. its just bad economics to not have anything in the works before cutting these people off. plus by not having alternatve energy ready it will be raising the cost of production in the states witch only cause more businesses to stay closed and move manufacturing away. not everybody has the brains to be a programmer. as harsh as that sounds its true. a whole lot of people are just good at Manuel labor and many do find joy in it.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jan 23, 2021)

Atomic77 said:


> I guess the point im trying to get across is why build in the first place? you know as well as I know no matter what you do there will always be bigger and better as with most technology these days you are outdated the moment you get it.


Dood are you really 39 and don't understand why? Here's another question then, why are you on an enuthaist pc building/oc'ing site if you don't find value in building a pc, when literally 90% of the posts are about building pc's and pushing them? That is like joining a cooking forum, but complaining about people who make their own diner because you always eat at restaurants.


----------



## Final_Fighter (Jan 23, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Dood are you really 39 and don't understand why? Here's another question then, why are you on an enuthaist pc building/oc'ing site if you don't find value in building a pc, when literally 90% of the posts are about building pc's and pushing them? That is like joining a cooking forum, but complaining about people who make their own diner because you always eat at restaurants.


i could not agree with this more. actually made me laugh.


----------



## Atomic77 (Jan 24, 2021)

Excuse me first of all I am not 39. I am actually 43. I was born October 15, 1977. I am adult with special needs and I am very knowledgeable in technology but I still don't understand why or what the big deal is with building pcs. I am here because I thought the forums were very interesting and I thought I could offer a opinion or advice here and there. But the way things are going It looks like you don't really want or need me here So I guess I could just keep doing what im doing or quit this forum or whatever. enough said.


----------



## Hachi_Roku256563 (Jan 24, 2021)

Atomic77 said:


> I am adult with special needs


Mate I'm autistic so I know what I'm talking about special needs are not a excuse for making stupid posts and half the time I see that it's people lying don't use it as a reasoning ever it really sucks


----------



## Atomic77 (Jan 24, 2021)

Im sorry if I upset or angered anyone. I guess ill just shut up now and let you all be. Good bye and good luck all you pc builders out there.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jan 24, 2021)

Atomic77 said:


> Excuse me first of all I am not 39. I am actually 43. I was born October 15, 1977. I am adult with special needs and I am very knowledgeable in technology but I still don't understand why or what the big deal is with building pcs. I am here because I thought the forums were very interesting and I thought I could offer a opinion or advice here and there. But the way things are going It looks like you don't really want or need me here So I guess I could just keep doing what im doing or quit this forum or whatever. enough said.



Well it's a hobby for some, a way to customize, a feeling of ownership, the satisfaction of a build, builders pride, a challenge, knowledge, cost savings for performance(sometime), and many other aspects to PC building. Hobbies do not have to be cost effective or even efficient to be fun. I can buy a Prius or I could build a completely customized crazy fast car that gets 2mpg. I can buy a steak at a fancy restaurant or I can marinade and grill it myself.  I can tell this thread is on the way to getting closed.

So back on track right?

There is for sure market manipulation going on right now with video cards and I would bet we will see something about that in the near future. Look at Nvidias stock it's freaking crazy.


----------



## Atomic77 (Jan 24, 2021)

Oh wow. now how @ZenZimZaliben explained it makes sense I get it now. I may never build one but I do understand why people do it. Boy now I feel ever more stupid than before. lol.


----------



## hat (Jan 24, 2021)

Atomic77 said:


> Oh wow. now how @ZenZimZaliben explained it makes sense I get it now. I may never build one but I do understand why people do it. Boy now I feel ever more stupid than before. lol.


I build my own PCs because prebuilts are effectively junk. A lot of them are, or were, proprietary, meaning you can't for example upgrade the power supply because the wires are switched around on the motherboard that's probably also proprietary to the shitty case, so you can't upgrade the motherboard either because the mounting holes could be different. They also often only come with a single stick of RAM, so you're not getting dual channel memory. If you want a good prebuilt system that could compare to something I could build myself, you're going to be paying a heavy premium for it... and it could still have some proprietary nonsense.

Buying a prebuilt desktop is not something I would ever do, not ever. _Maybe _a used workstation, if the price is right.


----------



## ThrashZone (Jan 24, 2021)

Isaac` said:


> It's a 3200g and a 580 now a 1060 low end system


Hi,
I don't judge


----------



## qubit (Jan 24, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I can understand availability at launch being so poor. But 0 availability at 3.5 months in? GPUs kinda, but never have I seen a CPU launch like this. I just don't see this happening to Rocket Lake. The fabs are still Intel's, it's still 14nm, everyone universally hates Rocket Lake, etc...


Yup, zero availability at 3.5 months is nuts and can't all be blamed on the scalpers.

I've not heard of all this hate for RL though. From the looks of it, it's gonna be the best gaming CPU, unless AMD has an answer, which they might. I say wait for the official reviews before judging it.

For once, I'd like to see AMD leapfrog their competition in all performance respects, whether it's GPUs or CPUs, I'm sick of this "best value and best price" positioning. Everyone knows it's about who's got the best performance first, value second, which is why NVIDIA and Intel fight so hard to maintain it so that they can set the prices. Still, AMD's much better nowadays, so let's see what they have to offer.

Leapfrogging obviously benefits the consumer by having generational performance leaps at great prices. Remember when the new gens gave better performance at the same prices as the old gens? Those were the good old days. It doesn't happen so much nowadays, alas.


----------



## Fry178 (Jan 27, 2021)

@80-watt Hamster 
guess then someone needs to explain to Nv (and others) how to plan a proper release, by building a warehouse and filling it with stock PRIOR to launch. 


anyone saying its not that easy:
so low stock on product launch is an unsolvable und too costly problem? right. 

how many think we would have low stock at launch upt to 3 month after, if all boni would be paid 6 month after a release, and based on their sales? 

reminds me of George Carlin saying if we really wanted to stoo drug imports/money laundering, have a weekly "running man" event with those that get caught. wont take long before it would stop..


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (Jan 27, 2021)

Fry178 said:


> guess then someone needs to explain to Nv (and others) how to plan a proper release, by building a warehouse and filling it with stock PRIOR to launch.
> 
> anyone saying its not that easy:
> so low stock on product launch is an unsolvable und too costly problem? right.
> ...



Could you clarify what you're asking here?  I genuinely cannot figure out what you mean.


> how many think we would have low stock at launch upt to 3 month after, if all boni would be paid 6 month after a release, and based on their sales?



How long do you propose they build up stock?  Six months? A year?  Demand doesn't evaporate by delaying launch.  It also doesn't matter how much stock you amass if the demand is larger than what can be supplied.  Going to throw out some admittedly arbitrary numbers here.  Let's say there are 1,000,000 people that buy a product in a given year, and you make an updated version of it every two years.  Hypothetically, that's 2,000,000 total sales for this product.  Production capacity is pretty much fixed, with about 83,000 coming off the line per month.  Initial demand is always higher, so let's set aside three months worth of production, for 250,000 available at release.  But we have a problem:  500,000 folks want this product right away this time.  Now supply has dried up immediately, and there are 250,000 customers unable to buy your product, and you can produce fewer than 100,000 a month.

That's a SEVERE oversimplification that ignores contracts, supply chains, market forecasts, tax on inventory, and any number of other factors that make a well-supplied launch trickier than it seems.  There's also this:  Even if it were easy to launch with enough cards available, what incentive do the manufacturers have to do it differently?  Basically none.  Sure, they get some bad PR and disgruntled customers, but they're selling every part they can produce.  Excess demand (to a point) is not a terrible problem to have, particularly when you're producing what is essentially a luxury good.  It keeps value high, in people's minds as well as on paper.

I'm not saying it doesn't suck.  It absolutely does, no matter what part of the market you're shopping.  You could be right that there were ways to, if not solve, at least mitigate the disaster this generation's rollout has been.  But I'd wager that none of those solutions would come at no cost to the manufacturer.  One more personal observation to inflict on everyone:  If something looks like it should be easy, but nobody's done it, it's probably not as easy as it looks.


----------



## Chomiq (Jan 27, 2021)

Well you can always buy laptop, right?








						Crypto miners could target laptops next: Nvidia's mobile RTX 3060 Max-P GPU is actually fast enough for ETH mining
					

The new RTX 3080 cards proved to be quite the crypto mining monsters, but these high-end solutions are still in very short supply. A better and more efficient alternative could be presented by Nvidia's mobile RTX 3000 dGPUs, as suggested by the latest leaks from China. If this is indeed true...




					www.notebookcheck.net
				



Wrong!


----------



## sepheronx (Jan 27, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> Well you can always buy laptop, right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think its time we make contact, at least someone here, with distributors.  Come up with our own store - TPU Store were we all pitch in and have equal shares.  We will be rich.

Now I know TPU store makes it sound like its selling toiletries, unless someone else can come up with a better name...


----------



## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Jan 28, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Also, what's wrong with the 1660 ti and by definition, 1660 super? That's what I game with and it does just fine, thank ya very much!


I guess for some, if it dosnt cost a grand or not breaking the top performance lead on the charts, it aint worth buying



rtwjunkie said:


> You have a serious case of Chicken-Littleism.  You're really not very tuned in. Oh, you can spew some facts alright, but really are just jumping on the ant-hype train at this point.  The company, is not done, not finished. Not by any stretch of the imagination.
> 
> Since you like figures, why don't you tell us all what branch of CD Projekt funds the company in its day to day functions, including (most of) its multi-year developments? Once you can answer that you'll understand why they are not done and cease this "CDPR is finished" nonsense.


CDPR aint going away anytime soon, however there brand have been tarnished in the eyes of consumers, after all the bold face lies for years baiting us into a broken, unfinished, overpromised, underdelivered, game releasing fake demos to build hype, and influencing the media to not show how bad it truly was by not showing any recorded game play footage, they made a calculated risk to cash in as soon as possible, it went horribly wrong, and after all that you defend them in forms, why ?


----------



## RandallFlagg (Jan 28, 2021)

Fry178 said:


> @80-watt Hamster
> guess then someone needs to explain to Nv (and others) how to plan a proper release, by building a warehouse and filling it with stock PRIOR to launch.
> 
> 
> ...



Apple sells tons of phones, and laptops for that matter, and doesn't run out.  MacBook Air M1 has been selling like hotcakes and I haven't heard of any kind of shortages.  Same with iPhone 12, best selling iPhone release in like  5 years if analysts are to be believed.  No shortages.  I really think if a shortage lasts more than 8 weeks after a release date (product on the market) - enough time for product to fill the supply chain and the early adopter crowd to get their fill -  then someone screwed up.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 28, 2021)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> I guess for some, if it dosnt cost a grand or not breaking the top performance lead on the charts, it aint worth buying
> 
> 
> CDPR aint going away anytime soon, however there brand have been tarnished in the eyes of consumers, after all the bold face lies for years baiting us into a broken, unfinished, overpromised, underdelivered, game releasing fake demos to build hype, and influencing the media to not show how bad it truly was by not showing any recorded game play footage, they made a calculated risk to cash in as soon as possible, it went horribly wrong, and after all that you defend them in forms, why ?


Either actually READ what I wrote before you spew a wall of nonsense, or don’t comment at all. What I SAID was they are not finished. What I said was that anyone that knows the company and how they make their day to day operational money would know that a bad release is not the end. Show me exactly WHERE I defended them.


----------



## Deleted member 193596 (Jan 28, 2021)

this again?...
are some people salty because they didn't got their hardware? 
do i need to sell my 5 ampere cards and three Zen 3 CPUs now?


----------



## milewski1015 (Jan 28, 2021)

WarTherapy1195 said:


> this again?...
> are some people salty because they didn't got their hardware?
> do i need to sell my 5 ampere cards and three Zen 3 CPUs now?


REEEEEEEEEEEEE /s

The fact of the matter is that PC hardware is a luxury, and while some may use their PC to make a living, that doesn't take away from the fact that it isn't necessary to survive like food, water, shelter, etc. Would I love to upgrade my 5700XT to a 3080 and slay some games at 1440p with some RT and DLSS? Of course. But I recognize that one, my PC is perfectly capable as it is, and two, that I can be patient enough for the availability situation to right itself. I think some have lost sight of that.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 28, 2021)

My very first computer was a HP Pavilion. 

I love that machine. I wish I still had it. It wasn't the best, but to me it was my ticket to see the internet in its wild west days lol. It always worked, no problems. The hotter the better 

It doesn't matter what your rig is, its yours.. and it takes you to where you want to go, or does what you need it to do. Prebuilt or homebuilt.. in the end it doesn't matter. The experience is the same. Maybe a little quicker on the homebuilt but..   

I don't judge either.. run watcha brung


----------



## Fry178 (Jan 28, 2021)

no im not ignoring things, just know that virtually all things affecting it are under their control (directly or indirectly). 
if a B/Trillion/xx $ company that pays the top floor double digit million bonuses, having no stock for multiple month after launch is a joke and either poor management and/or they don't care. 

and if the product is soo great, then you already know ahead of time its gonna be in demand and need to stock more. 
pandemic started a year ago, so they knew month ahead of time ppl are gaming/building more, so again, poor planning on their part.

and the fact is, this snt the only Nv, and not the first time, meaning its NOT by chance/accident. 
But as long as greed is the main focus of a lot of companies, this wont change much. 
they rather pay themselves millions instead of investing more and satisfying market/customers, as they know they still sell enough outside the (end) consumer, which is usually is the smallest market (share).


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## hat (Jan 28, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> Well you can always buy laptop, right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't really see miners buying laptops en masse. It makes no sense. It doesn't take much to stuff 6 cards on a single system, but you're only getting one "card" per laptop. In other words, the price per "card" would be significantly higher than your usual desktop miner, and cooling them would likely be an issue too.


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## Fry178 (Jan 28, 2021)

@milewski1015 
sorry, nope.
not only do a lot of countries (mainly Europe) consider internet/computer access as "essential" like they do with housing/radio/tv, but there is also a big range of what you consider a "pc". 

sure, an 8 core with a 2060 i would categorize as "want" (not needed to make it ro the next day), 
but something like a dual core atom running in a small box glued to a 15in screen (web/office etc) is definitely NOT a luxury. 

completely ignoring the fact that it's not always upgrades. 
what about ppl replacing a non working system (fire/flood/stolen/old and died etc), or long term plan for a build because of xmas/birthday/graduation, thst ppl know way in advance and might have saved up. 

i replaced virtually every part of my rig in the past 2 month (besides the board), not because I wanted an upgrade, but friends did. 
those upgrades were neither needed nor "wanted", but i did it so they can have a faster pc (gaming) without paying a premium (everyone paid a little)..


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## harm9963 (Jan 28, 2021)

nuggdoctor said:


> Can that handle the new 5900x and 5950x at that price? some of the cheapest boards are having issues with them.


My ASUS X470  Prime , no problems at all , it was only $89 , used both 5800X and my current 5950X .


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## Vayra86 (Jan 28, 2021)

witkazy said:


> I would laugh my ass off if 3000 from nvidia and 6000 from amd never actually become available and both teams just lounch new product ,next gen that is



I think its plausible by now that we get Q1/2 with very limited availability and then Q3 with a refresh and decent availability for next holiday season.



Atomic77 said:


> Oh wow. now how @ZenZimZaliben explained it makes sense I get it now. I may never build one but I do understand why people do it. Boy now I feel ever more stupid than before. lol.



I posted the same thing a few pages back, alongside about half the people in this topic. Sorry, you're not fooling me.



80-watt Hamster said:


> Could you clarify what you're asking here?  I genuinely cannot figure out what you mean.
> 
> 
> How long do you propose they build up stock?  Six months? A year?  Demand doesn't evaporate by delaying launch.  It also doesn't matter how much stock you amass if the demand is larger than what can be supplied.  Going to throw out some admittedly arbitrary numbers here.  Let's say there are 1,000,000 people that buy a product in a given year, and you make an updated version of it every two years.  Hypothetically, that's 2,000,000 total sales for this product.  Production capacity is pretty much fixed, with about 83,000 coming off the line per month.  Initial demand is always higher, so let's set aside three months worth of production, for 250,000 available at release.  But we have a problem:  500,000 folks want this product right away this time.  Now supply has dried up immediately, and there are 250,000 customers unable to buy your product, and you can produce fewer than 100,000 a month.
> ...



+1.



Fry178 said:


> no im not ignoring things, just know that virtually all things affecting it are under their control (directly or indirectly).
> if a B/Trillion/xx $ company that pays the top floor double digit million bonuses, having no stock for multiple month after launch is a joke and either poor management and/or they don't care.
> 
> and if the product is soo great, then you already know ahead of time its gonna be in demand and need to stock more.
> ...



We're in the midst of a pandemic which has repeatedly shown in statistics to inspire a high spending pattern on electronics and especially anything with chips in them. Demand for more chip production has been soaring ever since we got mobile phones and supply can only just keep up. So what we have is a stranglehold of reduced workforce/work hours (a *global net reduction* in available hands per hour/day/week/mo) alongside stable or even increased demand.

You can't prepare for that and any company that did was going to be bleeding money fast enough to be gone by now.


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## milewski1015 (Jan 28, 2021)

Fry178 said:


> sorry, nope.
> not only do a lot of countries (mainly Europe) consider internet/computer access as "essential" like they do with housing/radio/tv, but there is also a big range of what you consider a "pc".


Yes, in our day and age, it could be argued that internet access/computers are "essential", but my point was that it's not necessary to sustain life. Internet access and computers certainly make our lives easier, but they don't feed you, keep you safe from the weather, etc. Don't forget the overwhelming amount of the population with internet access already available via a smartphone.



Fry178 said:


> sure, an 8 core with a 2060 i would categorize as "want" (not needed to make it ro the next day),
> but something like a dual core atom running in a small box glued to a 15in screen (web/office etc) is definitely NOT a luxury.


Yes, in terms of speed, flashiness, etc., the dual core office PC isn't luxurious. Again, I used the term luxury not to mean luxurious, but as a category separate from things necessary for survival.



Fry178 said:


> completely ignoring the fact that it's not always upgrades.
> what about ppl replacing a non working system (fire/flood/stolen/old and died etc), or long term plan for a build because of xmas/birthday/graduation, thst ppl know way in advance and might have saved up.


It doesn't have to be upgrades, you're right. But that doesn't change the fact that (aside from the people depend on their computer to make a living), your PC isn't directly keeping you alive.



Fry178 said:


> i replaced virtually every part of my rig in the past 2 month (besides the board), not because I wanted an upgrade, but friends did.
> those upgrades were neither needed nor "wanted", but i did it so they can have a faster pc (gaming) without paying a premium (everyone paid a little)..


Okay, you might not have needed or wanted the upgrades, but you literally mention in this first sentence that your friends *wanted* them. That's a desire for something that's not a necessity (faster PC for increased gaming performance). I think it's great that you guys worked together to help each other out. I encourage and support as many people as I can to get into building their own PC/PC gaming. Is the availability and pricing situation right now one big ass-blast? You bet. I feel for the people that had first builds planned, had money saved away, etc. It sucks for everybody, especially them. My youngest brother turns 18 in 2 days and is a senior in high school. He wants to go to college for video production, and I would love to help him plan out/get started on a PC build for content creation and gaming, but I can't because I can't in good conscience recommend people pay these exorbitant prices. My other buddy that I used to game with on console (that I've pestered for years to build a PC so we can keep gaming together) reached out about a month ago and said he (finally) was thinking about building a system to connect to his 4K TV in his living room for some gaming and media consumption, etc. He said he wanted to spend only $500, and instead of attempting to convince him to save a bit more, I had to tell him to consider just trying to get a new console because there's no end in sight for the poor availability and high prices. My post was more directed at the people that have the 2080Ti's/10900K's/3900X's/etc. - the people whose PC already does everything they use it for just fine - that just want the newest shiniest thing because it's new and shiny and because they can brag about it to make their e-peen a bit bigger.

Edit: fixed typos


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## Deleted member 205776 (Jan 28, 2021)

Atomic77 said:


> Why  build a computer? Every freaking computer I have ever had has been name brand such as HP and has worked for me for everything I ever needed a computer for. I don't have the brains or the smarts or time to build a pc. Not saying I would ever have one built but in my opinion its a big waste of time.


My first prebuilt was a HP.

I despised it, and it was a baking oven. Never buying prebuilts again. Building your own PC is the way to go.


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## Fry178 (Jan 29, 2021)

@Vayra86
there weren't pandemics ever time thry had new releases, no excuse.
funny how apple just did the best record sales on the new iphone, without any shortage.

anything like low stock happening more than 2 time/in a row, is proof to me this isnt by accident.


@milewski1015
my emphasis should have been on them, not the wanting part.
they got one pc for everyone, and they arent the only ones gaming on it.
new games (xmas/new releases) required the update.
e. g. one starts college soon, probably go towards content/streaming, maybe even while gaming, so upgrade wasnt avoidable, looking long term.

sure i told them to wait/not pay more than "msrp",
but i also say get it if you have the funds and get a deal.


my problem is with the generalization, not to buy/upgrade right now/u til certain date, 
its just plain wrong.

i was gonna get a 5800x anyway as i plan to keep board/ram for longer and got it for msrp,
so how is there one reason NOT to do it right now.


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