# Is my computer dying? Please help.



## Swoosieque (Dec 25, 2016)

Ten years ago, we built my computer.  I use/d it daily for digital photo restoration, at-home customer service, and now, transcription work.  For two months now, the computer started doing weird things when I pressed the front power button - the fans would startup, but the system wouldn't load.

I found that shutting down the main power switch on the back of the computer and turning it back on only helped if I did that three times, along with pressing the front power switch.  Sometimes, it will seem like it's going to 'kick-in", but then, all of a sudden, will restart, all while in the initial startup phase.

After ruling out a virus, I thought it might be due to the latest upgrade of Win10.  I started backing up important files to an external drive, while removing programs, etc...  Finally, I bit the bullet and did a fresh install of Win 7.  Nope, that did not fix my problem.

Next, I took my main power supply out of my computer, installed it into my husband's computer and it started up like a champ, so, that rules out a power supply problem.

As I mentioned, the case, all components and hardware are ten years old.  Could one, or all, of my computer's guts be dying?

Here are the specs of my computer:

Processor:         Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9400 @  2.66GHz
Case:                ATX Mid tower, Thermaltake
Motherboard:  Intel DP43TF
Memory:          Crucial, 4GB
Graphics:          NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GSO 512
HDD:                 Seagate  ST31000528AS  ATA (1TB)
Fans:                 A total of 3 fans, as well as a heat sink for the CPU

I just don't know what to do.  I'm afraid of spending money on this if I'm going to eventually be replacing everything.  Thoughts, please?  

Thank you so much, in advance, for any help you can offer.

Swoosieque


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## sneekypeet (Dec 25, 2016)

Have you inspected the motherboard for bulging capacitors or anything that looks odd? Also, unless the "husbands" rig is the same specification and power draw, you cannot rule out the PSU if the second rig draws half the power as yours does.


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## jboydgolfer (Dec 25, 2016)

If it's doing these things from a boot before loading the OS then it has nothing to do with anything Windows-based , or even a virus for that matter. My guess is it's hardware,  possibly power supply. I suppose it could be a faulty switch but id bank on  The problem being the power supply

Or like pete said check the system closely for any obvious damage or blown capacitor's


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 25, 2016)

While inspecting for bulging or leaky caps, make sure the interior is clean of heat trapping dust. Though that will not be causing this problem, it is still best to keep it clean.

If you have more than one stick of RAM, I recommend pulling all but one then boot and see what happens. Make sure you fully power down, unplug the computer from the wall and touch bare metal of the case interior (to discharge any static in your body) before reaching in or touching the RAM.

@jboydgolfer - note she already tried her supply in her husband's system and it worked fine.


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## Swoosieque (Dec 25, 2016)

sneekypeet said:


> Have you inspected the motherboard for bulging capacitors or anything that looks odd? Also, unless the "husbands" rig is the same specification and power draw, you cannot rule out the PSU if the second rig draws half the power as yours does.



No.  I didn't know anything about bulging capacitors, but I did open the case, blew it out with air, and checked all the connections for being secure, and to my eyes, nothing looked weird.

Also, I didn't even think about my husband's computer having different specs, great point! Thank you!



jboydgolfer said:


> If it's doing these things from a boot before loading the OS then it has nothing to do with anything Windows-based , or even a virus for that matter. My guess is it's hardware,  possibly power supply. I suppose it could be a faulty switch but id bank on  The problem being the power supply
> 
> Or like pete said check the system closely for any obvious damage or blown capacitor's



Thank you so much for your help.  I think I'll go ahead and buy a new power supply and see if that fixes the problem.  If nothing else, then at least I'll have a new power supply for a new build, if that's what ends up happening.



Bill_Bright said:


> While inspecting for bulging or leaky caps, make sure the interior is clean of heat trapping dust. Though that will not be causing this problem, it is still best to keep it clean.
> 
> If you have more than one stick of RAM, I recommend pulling all but one then boot and see what happens. Make sure you fully power down, unplug the computer from the wall and touch bare metal of the case interior (to discharge any static in your body) before reaching in or touching the RAM.
> 
> @jboydgolfer - note she already tried her supply in her husband's system and it worked fine.



Okay, I'll try that, while grounding myself, remove one of the RAM sticks (there are only 2), and if the problem still persists, repeat this step while replacing the other stick, and if the problem still persists, try different RAM slots on the mobo. 

Will doing this test prove the RAM isn't bad?  

I will check for bulging or leaky caps, remove, RAM sticks, restarting with one stick at a time, move them around to different slots and check back with you.  Thanks so much!


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 25, 2016)

Swoosieque said:


> Will doing this test prove the RAM isn't bad?


Sadly, no. But it will be pretty convincing. Sometimes RAM works great alone but fails when paired with other sticks.

You might try putting your husband's power supply into your computer and see what happens.


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## 64K (Dec 25, 2016)

I suspect the PSU but ten years is a pretty good lifetime for a PC. Is a new build possible for you right now? PSU, CPU, MOBO and RAM.


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## Static~Charge (Dec 25, 2016)

Swoosieque said:


> No.  I didn't know anything about bulging capacitors,



Go here for some clear pics of bad electrolytic capacitors.


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## jaggerwild (Dec 26, 2016)

Swoosieque said:


> Next, I took my main power supply out of my computer, installed it into my husband's computer and it started up like a champ, so, that rules out a power supply problem.



 That doesn't mean the voltage wont dip or fluctuate, only another computer boooted off of it, power supply testers show bad powers supplies as good under load cause its not a "REAL" LOAD.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 26, 2016)

jaggerwild said:


> power supply testers show bad powers supplies as good under load cause its not a "REAL" LOAD.


I agree. Also, a tester (and most multimeters) cannot test for excessive ripple and other anomalies that affect computer stability. But a PSU Tester does put a small load on the supply where the paper-clip method does not. If the tester shows a voltage is missing, or out of the required ±5% tolerance allowed, the supply is bad. So while a tester is not conclusive, it is better than nothing if you don't have a known good PSU to swap in or a professional shop near by where a qualified technician can use an oscilloscope or power supply analyzer to properly and conclusively test the supply.


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## Swoosieque (Dec 26, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> Sadly, no. But it will be pretty convincing. Sometimes RAM works great alone but fails when paired with other sticks.
> 
> You might try putting your husband's power supply into your computer and see what happens.



That's a great idea!  Haven't done anything with this today, too much fun yesterday, paying for it with a wasted day today, will try these things tomorrow - try husband's power supply and move around the RAM.



Static~Charge said:


> Go here for some clear pics of bad electrolytic capacitors.



 Thanks so much for the pics.  I definitely have never seen anything like that before, and, luckily, nothing on my mobo resembles blown or leaky capacitors.



64K said:


> I suspect the PSU but ten years is a pretty good lifetime for a PC. Is a new build possible for you right now? PSU, CPU, MOBO and RAM.



That's what I'm thinking, rather than pinpointing one problem, another will follow due to the age of everything, and I'll end up replacing everything anyway, so maybe just start all over again because all this trouble shooting is so timely.



jaggerwild said:


> That doesn't mean the voltage wont dip or fluctuate, only another computer boooted off of it, power supply testers show bad powers supplies as good under load cause its not a "REAL" LOAD.



I guess the only way to rule out the PSU is to buy a new one and see if that fixes the problem?


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## jaggerwild (Dec 27, 2016)

Can buy a used one, a known good one. If you have a buddy with a unit borrow, etc............


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 27, 2016)

Swoosieque said:


> I guess the only way to rule out the PSU is to buy a new one and see if that fixes the problem?


If you put your husband's PSU in your machine and it works, that is pretty conclusive your PSU is bad. If his PSU does not fix the problem, then buying a new PSU will likely be a waste of money.


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## Swoosieque (Dec 27, 2016)

jaggerwild said:


> Can buy a used one, a known good one. If you have a buddy with a unit borrow, etc............


 
I'm 63 yrs. old and nobody I know around here knows anything about computers - really computer illiterate.  

But, this morning, I spent a few hours switching out the RAM, one at a time (only have 2 sticks) both worked fine.  I mean, the startup problem is still the same, but, the RAM showed as working when it finally booted up, the screen showed that I decreased my RAM (because I pulled out the 2nd stick).  Then I replaced the one stick with the one I pulled out and it was okay.

Next, I removed my power supply and replaced it with my husband's, which is of the same specs and known to work without any problems in his computer.  MY problem (o/s won't load) still exists.  It only starts up after powering down main switch 3 times, then it will suddenly stop everything and start over again, and then the o/s boots.

Process of elimination now is that it's either the HDD, CPU or mobo.  I think I'll start with replacing the HDD.  

I don't need a raging gaming computer, just one where I can do my spreadsheet work and transcription work and a little bit of surfing.  But, I've got to be careful with what HDD I choose to make sure it's compatible with my mobo and any mobo I might have to replace.

Any more thoughts?



Bill_Bright said:


> If you put your husband's PSU in your machine and it works, that is pretty conclusive your PSU is bad. If his PSU does not fix the problem, then buying a new PSU will likely be a waste of money.



Thanks for your help.  We save old computer parts and I'm going to look to see if we saved an old HDD, install it and see if that might be the problem. If not, then like I mentioned to jaggerwild, I think I'll start replacing parts, starting with the HDD, but make sure that it will be compatible with a new mobo.

After testing the psu and memory, I'm left with the problem source being either the mobo, cpu, or hdd, don't you think?


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## sneekypeet (Dec 27, 2016)

Swoosieque said:


> Any more thoughts?



When the PC does eventually boot, is the date and time correct? I almost wonder if this could be a bad CMOS battery.


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## Swoosieque (Dec 27, 2016)

sneekypeet said:


> When the PC does eventually boot, is the date and time correct? I almost wonder if this could be a bad CMOS battery.



The very first thing I did was replace the CMOS battery.   And the date and time are okay.  Actually, the date and time were always okay, even after this problem first began.

Found only one hdd in our old boxes, an old Maxtor Model 93073UA.  Going to shower, have lunch, then try and install it.  Will get back to you guys.


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## SKBARON (Dec 27, 2016)

Could it be a cold bug? With the age of that system I am wondering if maybe it needs to be a certain temperature before it starts up. I have had hardware that did not start until I literally used a hair dryer to warm it up to about 30 degrees C. The GPU and motherboard chipsets are the most susceptible to this as far as I know.

It's a long shot, a crazy long shot.


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## Filip Georgievski (Dec 27, 2016)

Starting up every 3rd time sound like a bad CMOS battery, i had same problem, solved it by buying new Energizer battery, and it was gone.

If you have a movable heater (those with wheels, few ribs and a heat regulator), you could try to open the sidr panel, place the heater beside it and try to start it up and see if problem is still there, as mentioned above by @SKBARON.


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## Swoosieque (Dec 27, 2016)

SKBARON said:


> Could it be a cold bug? With the age of that system I am wondering if maybe it needs to be a certain temperature before it starts up. I have had hardware that did not start until I literally used a hair dryer to warm it up to about 30 degrees C. The GPU and motherboard chipsets are the most susceptible to this as far as I know.
> 
> It's a long shot, a crazy long shot.



Cold bug?  Wow!  I've never heard of that, but it kind of makes sense because once the system is running, and if I shut it down or restart for any reason, it starts up like normal.  So, the solution is to keep a hair dryer on my desk and warm the ol' lady up first?   (just kidding)



Filip Georgievski said:


> Starting up every 3rd time sound like a bad CMOS battery, i had same problem, solved it by buying new Energizer battery, and it was gone.
> 
> If you have a movable heater (those with wheels, few ribs and a heat regulator), you could try to open the sidr panel, place the heater beside it and try to start it up and see if problem is still there, as mentioned above by @SKBARON.



I replaced the CMOS battery with a brand new one (Energizer) before I moved on to other possibilities.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 27, 2016)

Swoosieque said:


> Cold bug?  Wow!  I've never heard of that, but it kind of makes sense because once the system is running, and if I shut it down or restart for any reason, it starts up like normal.  So, the solution is to keep a hair dryer on my desk and warm the ol' lady up first?   (just kidding)


Turn off sleep mode and make sure its on "performance mode". Just remember to turn it off when you aint using it. Sleep mode causes all kinds of issues.


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## Swoosieque (Dec 27, 2016)

Switched out the hdd with the old Maxtor, the same problem happened. But, I don't know why on earth we've hung on to a 13 yr. old hdd?!  Something is probably wrong with it too.  Maybe tomorrow I'll pull my husband's hdd out and try it in mine - his computer works fine. If it works/starts up with booting the system, then I'll know it's the hdd.  If it doesn't, then it must be the mobo and cpu.



TheMailMan78 said:


> Turn off sleep mode and make sure its on "performance mode". Just remember to turn it off when you aint using it. Sleep mode causes all kinds of issues.



Jesus, did you mean the peroformance mode in Windows or in the Bios?  I just double-checked Windows and made sure nothing was set to sleep or hybernate.  I'm gonna restart now and check my BIOS settings.  I sure hope this might solve the problem!


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 27, 2016)

Swoosieque said:


> Jesus, did you mean the peroformance mode in Windows or in the Bios?  I just double-checked Windows and made sure nothing was set to sleep or hybernate.  I'm gonna restart now and check my BIOS settings.  I sure hope this might solve the problem!


Everything is in Windows. Hibernate is the devil.

Also have you checked your event monitor to see if there is an error on boot? Personally it kinda sounds like your RAM might be going. Can you swap out your husbands RAM just to test it? If everything runs fine you could just buy new RAM or maybe up the voltage. Overtime electromigration can wear down just about any electronic. Perfectly normal. So when this happens you can up the voltage to compensate. This is just a temp fix however. Now I am not saying this is what happening. I'm just throwing possibilities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration

10 years is a great run for RAM IMO. That's where I would start with your symptoms and time frame.


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## Swoosieque (Dec 27, 2016)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Everything is in Windows. Hibernate is the devil.
> 
> Also have you checked your event monitor to see if there is an error on boot? Personally it kinda sounds like your RAM might be going. Can you swap out your husbands RAM just to test it? If everything runs fine you could just buy new RAM or maybe up the voltage. Overtime electromigration can wear down just about any electronic. Perfectly normal. So when this happens you can up the voltage to compensate. This is just a temp fix however. Now I am not saying this is what happening. I'm just throwing possibilities.
> 
> ...



Yes, I know we have been very, very fortunate with our builds lasting this long.  I'd like the next build to last just as long.  And then, my eldest son mentioned, "Mom, c'mon, in 10 years, you'll be 73 yrs. old!!  By then, you probably won't be transcribing anymore and just using your laptop for whatever you want to do."  Sometimes I forget I'm getting OLD!!  haha

Okay, tomorrow's game plan:  install hubby's hdd, then his ram, if it's the same type, and even his graphics card.  He told me it could be my graphics card too.  Process of elimination.  

Insofar as my event monitor, I've been getting tons of kernel errors, kernel event tracing, SChannel, DbxSvc, ... within the last hour, but, during the last hour, I've been changing things around.  Gotta run, more later...  thanks for hanging in here with me.


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## Swoosieque (Dec 28, 2016)

Thought I'd try something "easier" than messing with my husband's hdd.  Found a package of Corsair XMS2 DDR 240pin 2x 2GB sticks.  Without wondering is they were non-ECC or unbuffered, I installed them and WHOA, computer beeped 4 times and I quickly shut it down and put my old RAM in, and proceeded to try my husband's hdd.  His worked, but, still not sure if hdd is the problem, so I ordered compatible RAM and it should be here within a week.

After thinking some more, I decided to go ahead and order a new HDD.  The Seagate I have is the Barracuda, 1TB, SATA, and I'm going to order the Firecuda, 1TB, SATA.  I've been so impressed with the longevity of the one I had, I hope this next one lasts as long too.

I'll get back to the forum after these pieces come in and I've got it up and running.

Thanks again to everyone for all of your help and suggestions.


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## biffzinker (Dec 28, 2016)

Since your here @Swoosieque why not fill in your system specs?
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/account/specs


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## jaggerwild (Dec 28, 2016)

Sounds like a bios boot problem then, like you cleared the Cmos and rest the bios settings. or try another HDD..........


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## jboydgolfer (Dec 28, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> note she already tried her supply in her husband's system and it worked fine.



i noticed that, but even a broken clock is right twice /day....thats why i said "possibly", since its Still possible, maybe not too likely, but none the less, possible.


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## jaggerwild (Dec 28, 2016)

Wait it did boot, either way, 63 or not thats damn sexy you swapped it!!


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## Swoosieque (Dec 29, 2016)

biffzinker said:


> Since your here @Swoosieque why not fill in your system specs?
> https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/account/specs



Holy cow!  Ran the benchmark and this is depressing!!!  Uploading the report as pdf.  This is depressing!

Regarding the CPU:  "With a below average single core score, this CPU can handle email, web browsing and audio/video playback but it will struggle to handle..."

What are they talking about?  I thought mine was a quad?  Maybe after all of this, the CPU is the problem???



jaggerwild said:


> Sounds like a bios boot problem then, like you cleared the Cmos and rest the bios settings. or try another HDD..........



Yeah, after I installed the new CMOS battery, I had to reset the bios.

Okay, so my new RAM and hard drive should be here sometime next week.  Hoping that will solve the problem, otherwise will just have to go ahead and buy a new mobo, cpu and compatible RAM for the new mobo.  Meanwhile, I'm going to investigate why that benchmark is saying that "_The boot partition is located on a mechanical or hybrid drive. Moving the system to
an SSD will yield far faster boot times, better system responsiveness and faster
application load times. ?????????????????? "
_
Duh.... SolidStateDrive...  

Well, the FireCuda is supposed to be part solid state and part mechanical.  Anyway, it will be a bit of an upgrade from what I currently have.


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## jaggerwild (Dec 29, 2016)

Swoosieque said:


> Yeah, after I installed the new CMOS battery, I had to reset the bios.



 That could be your issue, what setting is the hard drive on? Should be AHCI(in the bios durring boot), make sure the SATA cable is good and plugged in. Try different locations on the motherboard(as there are several)maybe why its actting up.......


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## Swoosieque (Dec 29, 2016)

jaggerwild said:


> That could be your issue, what setting is the hard drive on? Should be AHCI(in the bios durring boot), make sure the SATA cable is good and plugged in. Try different locations on the motherboard(as there are several)maybe why its actting up.......



Funny you mentioned the SATA cable, I had a spare one and switched that out yesterday too, but didn't try the other SATA ports, might try that over the weekend.  Let me reboot into the BIOS and see what the hard drive is set at.

Gheez, the BIOS was set at IDE for the hard drive.  Changed it to the ahci.  I wonder how that happened.???  

Thank you so much for pointing that out to me.  I'll see how it starts up tomorrow morning after cooling down!


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## biffzinker (Dec 30, 2016)

Swoosieque said:


> What are they talking about? I thought mine was a quad? Maybe after all of this, the CPU is the problem???


It's still a quad core CPU.  Userbenchmark treated it as such during the benchmark run you did. Problem is it's getting slow in it's old age (no offense intended.)


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## Swoosieque (Dec 30, 2016)

biffzinker said:


> It's still a quad core CPU.  Userbenchmark treated it as such during the benchmark run you did. Problem is it's getting slow in it's old age (no offense intended.)



 No offense taken.  I was prepared for having to rebuild, especially because of the age of everything.  So, could the CPU be the cause of the boot/startup problem?  I guess it's a part of the whole problem of everything being worn down.

Thanks for taking a look at the benchmark.


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## Komshija (Dec 30, 2016)

It could be failing MOBO, failing PSU, failing RAM's, failing HDD and even faulty GPU. I would test PSU in another similar system and load that system with something like Furmark or OCCT. Watch for the temps. If everything is OK, move to the RAM test with Memtest86 and finally check HDD for errors. If that's OK, than most likely either MOBO or GPU are causing the problems. I doubt that CPU is causing the problems, although it can happen.

Similar thing happened to my former girlfriend on her laptop. The solution was easy - I dissasembled the whole machine, cleaned everything, applied a new thermal paste and made sure that all cables and wires are properly seated and undamaged.

Considering the upgrade (assuming you solved the problem) - if you are on a very tight budget, buy 8 GB (2x4GB) DDR2 800 MHz RAM, HD 6790 or GTX 550 Ti GPU and it might handle internet, MS office and watching movies for the next 2 or 3 years like a champ.


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## jaggerwild (Dec 30, 2016)

Swoosieque said:


> Funny you mentioned the SATA cable, I had a spare one and switched that out yesterday too, but didn't try the other SATA ports, might try that over the weekend.  Let me reboot into the BIOS and see what the hard drive is set at.
> 
> Gheez, the BIOS was set at IDE for the hard drive.  Changed it to the ahci.  I wonder how that happened.???
> 
> Thank you so much for pointing that out to me.  I'll see how it starts up tomorrow morning after cooling down!



 You should be good, A Q9400 is a quad its fine for what you mentioned(surfing n cruzing email, etc). I use a clean long hair'd paint brush to dust the inside when I get bunnies, then compressed air or vacum(only if its hairy inside).

 Cheers! Welcome to the addiction.........................


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## Swoosieque (Dec 31, 2016)

Komshija said:


> It could be failing MOBO, failing PSU, failing RAM's, failing HDD and even faulty GPU. I would test PSU in another similar system and load that system with something like Furmark or OCCT. Watch for the temps. If everything is OK, move to the RAM test with Memtest86 and finally check HDD for errors. If that's OK, than most likely either MOBO or GPU are causing the problems. I doubt that CPU is causing the problems, although it can happen.
> 
> Similar thing happened to my former girlfriend on her laptop. The solution was easy - I dissasembled the whole machine, cleaned everything, applied a new thermal paste and made sure that all cables and wires are properly seated and undamaged.
> 
> Considering the upgrade (assuming you solved the problem) - if you are on a very tight budget, buy 8 GB (2x4GB) DDR2 800 MHz RAM, HD 6790 or GTX 550 Ti GPU and it might handle internet, MS office and watching movies for the next 2 or 3 years like a champ.



Yes, on a tight budget, so thank you for the suggestions.  The only thing I haven't removed yet to check for dust, etc.. is the graphic card.  Will do that if things don't improve after the hard drive and RAM arrive.  Thanks again! 



jaggerwild said:


> You should be good, A Q9400 is a quad its fine for what you mentioned(surfing n cruzing email, etc). I use a clean long hair'd paint brush to dust the inside when I get bunnies, then compressed air or vacum(only if its hairy inside).
> 
> Cheers! Welcome to the addiction.........................



Thanks for the tip about a clean, long-haired paint brush, never thought of that!  Great idea.  But, I have a question about my quad core cpu, someone told me that these are actually better than the i3.  Is that true?


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## R-T-B (Dec 31, 2016)

Swoosieque said:


> But, I have a question about my quad core cpu, someone told me that these are actually better than the i3.  Is that true?



Not really, most modern i3s will beat it, despite just being dual core.  Older ones may lose out though.


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## jaggerwild (Dec 31, 2016)

Swoosieque said:


> Thanks for the tip about a clean, long-haired paint brush, never thought of that!  Great idea.  But, I have a question about my quad core cpu, someone told me that these are actually better than the i3.  Is that true?



 I've never had a I3 so I can't honestly answer that, but surely others that have will......


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## Filip Georgievski (Dec 31, 2016)

Modern I3s will beat it only in single-threaded performance, but not in multicore where yours shine.
With a better gpu and a little bit of overclock your quad core will run just fine in many new games.
Mind you, look at my spec, i run a simmilar cpu, 1 generation newer, and i dont have any problems with new AAA titles.


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## Swoosieque (Jan 1, 2017)

Happy New Year! 

Although the startup/boot problem still exists, at least I got 3 long beeps which indicate (according to Intel) a RAM problem.  New RAM will be here Tuesday, new hard drive by the end of week.  

Another thing I was thinking, was to remove the CPU and do whatever I have to do to apply a new coat of thermal paste.  Gonna have to research how to do this carefully.


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## 64K (Jan 2, 2017)

Swoosieque said:


> Happy New Year!
> 
> Although the startup/boot problem still exists, at least I got 3 long beeps which indicate (according to Intel) a RAM problem.  New RAM will be here Tuesday, new hard drive by the end of week.
> 
> Another thing I was thinking, was to remove the CPU and do whatever I have to do to apply a new coat of thermal paste.  Gonna have to research how to do this carefully.



You can spend a few dollars on a 2 step cleaner like this


 







https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0007TOR08/?tag=tec06d-20

but really you can do a good job with rubbing alcohol and a coffee filter if you don't want to spend the money. You just need to make sure to remove all the old paste from the CPU and the heat sink and coffee filters work good because they won't leave any lint behind.


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## Swoosieque (Jan 3, 2017)

64K said:


> You can spend a few dollars on a 2 step cleaner like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



THANK  YOU  SO  MUCH!   

The RAM just arrived, but it's too late to mess with it today, have to start cooking dinner.  Hopefully tomorrow, I'll have time to install the RAM, or maybe, because I'm female and it's a females' prerogative, I might just wait until the hard drive gets here and do it all at one time.  And maybe, wait until I get the CPU cleaner stuff too!  I'm beginning to hate lugging that computer to the kitchen where I can be static free and ground myself.  But, I'd still rather be doing this than buying a pre-built computer.  I like knowing what I've got.  Cheers!


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## Vario (Jan 5, 2017)

Just use 91% isopropyl, works better than that arctic clean stuff, I have both and isopropyl is just flat out better.  You can buy 91% isopropyl rubbing alcohol at the pharmacy or grocery store usually.

I recommend using Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste, it seems to work well long term.

You shouldn't have to remove the CPU, just take the heatsink off, clean the heatsink and the top of the processor with isopropyl until both are clean, and put a very small amount of thermal paste in the center like this



Don't use any more than that.
then put the heatsink back on and make sure its on tight. The paste will spread out when you clamp the heat sink back on.


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## silkstone (Jan 5, 2017)

Swoosieque said:


> Holy cow!  Ran the benchmark and this is depressing!!!  Uploading the report as pdf.  This is depressing!
> 
> Regarding the CPU:  "With a below average single core score, this CPU can handle email, web browsing and audio/video playback but it will struggle to handle..."
> 
> What are they talking about?  I thought mine was a quad?  Maybe after all of this, the CPU is the problem???



The old Q-core cpu's are still more than capable for what you want to do. Even if you wanted to play games on your system, I'd recommend getting a new video card before upgrading the CPU.

If you get it working again, and want to upgrade, grab an SSD and the computer will fly. I'm running an old quad-core as my HTPC and it can handle everything I throw at it.


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## biffzinker (Jan 5, 2017)

Swoosieque said:


> Another thing I was thinking, was to remove the CPU and do whatever I have to do to apply a new coat of thermal paste. Gonna have to research how to do this carefully.


While you have the heatsink off might as well give a good cleaning before re-pasting, and mounting.


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## Swoosieque (Jan 8, 2017)

Vario said:


> Just use 91% isopropyl, works better than that arctic clean stuff, I have both and isopropyl is just flat out better.  You can buy 91% isopropyl rubbing alcohol at the pharmacy or grocery store usually.
> 
> I recommend using Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste, it seems to work well long term.
> 
> ...



Thank you!  I wondered about just using isopropyl, it works for a lot of things.  And also for the thermal paste suggestion!



silkstone said:


> The old Q-core cpu's are still more than capable for what you want to do. Even if you wanted to play games on your system, I'd recommend getting a new video card before upgrading the CPU.
> 
> If you get it working again, and want to upgrade, grab an SSD and the computer will fly. I'm running an old quad-core as my HTPC and it can handle everything I throw at it.



Love this!  Yes, I mostly do spreadsheet work and transcription work, so, it's a little more than just surfing the web and checking email.  I need to be able to count on the computer to properly do math functions.  And yes, once I change out the hard drive, then I'll be cleaning up the CPU, and probably check on a cheap upgrade graphic card.  

Any suggestions for a graphic card, not a kick-ass one, just one that will be a little bit better than my old one?  Thanks again!

Okay, after trying to do some spreadsheet work, things were not calculating properly, so, I shut everything down and went ahead and installed the new RAM.  It booted right up, but, that's not unusual after the computer's been on for several hours.  The true test will be tomorrow, after having the computer off all night, and then seeing if it boots right up on the first try.

My hard drive didn't show up this weekend, FedEx is really bad out where I live.  Anyway, hoping it arrives tomorrow, then I'll install it and transfer files and programs, then... the next morning should tell a lot too.

Even if these two things solve this problem, I'm still going to go ahead and clean the CPU and order a new graphics card.  Heck, may as well. 

As mentioned earlier, if anyone can suggest a cheap graphic card that is a bit better than the one I have, anything will be better than this old one, I'm sure.  I'd love suggestions.

And thank so much to all of you guys!  You ROCK!! 

OHHHH... one more thing.  If the computer still has a problem booting up tomorrow morning, can I then assume it's not the RAM, and go ahead and install my removed RAM in the extra slots so I'll end up with 8GB total?


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## silkstone (Jan 8, 2017)

Swoosieque said:


> Okay, after trying to do some spreadsheet work, things were not calculating properly, so, I shut everything down and went ahead and installed the new RAM.  It booted right up, but, that's not unusual after the computer's been on for several hours.  The true test will be tomorrow, after having the computer off all night, and then seeing if it boots right up on the first try.
> 
> My hard drive didn't show up this weekend, FedEx is really bad out where I live.  Anyway, hoping it arrives tomorrow, then I'll install it and transfer files and programs, then... the next morning should tell a lot too.
> 
> ...



a 1050 like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814137058&cm_re=1050-_-14-137-058-_-Product will be more than adequate, if you are looking for something new at around $100.
It will play all modern games.

You could likely find something less powerful, but equally appropriate 2nd hand on e-bay in the $50 range, but you'd lose out on the warranty.


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## Arjai (Jan 8, 2017)

I think the new memory will fix it. I've been wrong before but, your issue seems pretty clearly memory related, to me. If not sticks, could be the board's memory slots. Best of luck to you!!


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## Swoosieque (Jan 9, 2017)

silkstone said:


> a 1050 like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814137058&cm_re=1050-_-14-137-058-_-Product will be more than adequate, if you are looking for something new at around $100.
> It will play all modern games.
> 
> You could likely find something less powerful, but equally appropriate 2nd hand on e-bay in the $50 range, but you'd lose out on the warranty.



Thank you!  I'll have a look at it.  



Arjai said:


> I think the new memory will fix it. I've been wrong before but, your issue seems pretty clearly memory related, to me. If not sticks, could be the board's memory slots. Best of luck to you!!



Well.... bad news, the new memory did not fix the problem.  When I woke up this morning, turned on the computer and the same problem still exists.  So, I went ahead and reinstalled the old sticks in the remaining slots, and now have 8GB, why not. 

Still waiting for the hard drive to get here.  I really want to install it today and then see if this problem goes away tomorrow morning, with a new hard drive.  I'm finally starting to be discouraged and thinking it's the mobo.


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## Swoosieque (Jan 17, 2017)

Got the new hard drive, having a helluva time installing Windows on it, plus, the computer still keeps turning itself off and on.  And then, it froze with a really weird screen, where the window in which I was working froze with dotted pixels, stripes, weird, really weird.  Will be ordering a new graphic card today, if that doesn't fix it, then it will be onto a new mobo and cpu.


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## Swoosieque (Jan 18, 2017)

Yesterday's adventure was to clean the cpu, its fan, and apply the arctic thermal paste, and replace cables with new ones.  Didn't fix the problem.  Ordered a new graphic card.

Today, I removed components so that I could get to the case's power switch.  I took that out and ordered a new one.  So, by middle of next week, with these changes made, all that's left is replacing the motherboard and getting a new cpu.... at which time I will have rebuilt the entire computer and will lead me to the realization that it probably was the motherboard which went bad.


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## Dethroy (Jan 18, 2017)

Sorry to tune in so late... I may have missed it while skimming all posts, but what beeping sounds (beep code) does the MoBo produce (if any...) when failing the POST during a cold boot? And what Motherboard is installed?

Edit: regarding the beep code... both count and length of the beeps are important


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## biffzinker (Jan 18, 2017)

Dethroy said:


> what Motherboard is installed?



Intel DP43TF

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121351

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us...esktop-boards/intel-desktop-board-dp43tf.html


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## Dethroy (Jan 18, 2017)

biffzinker said:


> Intel DP43TF


My bad! I was reading all posts at a stretch and completely forgot Swoosieque mentioned that in the very first post...


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## hat (Jan 18, 2017)

Sorry I saw the thread late... but my first suspicion in such a situation would be bad motherboard.


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## Arjai (Jan 19, 2017)

I still think it is the MB and the Memory slots, not getting a good connection.

My two cents. Time to find some more pennies!! 
 Best of luck with this!!


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## Swoosieque (Jan 21, 2017)

Dethroy said:


> Sorry to tune in so late... I may have missed it while skimming all posts, but what beeping sounds (beep code) does the MoBo produce (if any...) when failing the POST during a cold boot? And what Motherboard is installed?
> 
> Edit: regarding the beep code... both count and length of the beeps are important



There are no beeps when trying to start up.  The screen stays black, I shut down the power, restart the power, fans start running, hdd & dvd drive lights flicker (on the front of the case), and nothing - no Intel screen, so, I repeat up to 3 times, and then the Intel screen comes up and the o/s loads.



Arjai said:


> I still think it is the MB and the Memory slots, not getting a good connection.
> 
> My two cents. Time to find some more pennies!!
> Best of luck with this!!



Yes, I think you are right.  The new graphic card came in and I bought a new front power switch, will be installing both of those today, but not expecting any good news.  I am pretty sure, at this point, that I'll need to order a new mobo and cpu.  I'll have rebuilt this and problems will be solved.  Will keep you updated after installing the power switch and graphic card.  Thanks again everyone!


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## Dethroy (Jan 21, 2017)

Swoosieque said:


> There are no beeps when trying to start up.  The screen stays black, I shut down the power, restart the power, fans start running, hdd & dvd drive lights flicker (on the front of the case), and nothing - no Intel screen, so, I repeat up to 3 times, and then the Intel screen comes up and the o/s loads.


Wow, that means that the machine possibly even shuts down before it actually attempts to POST. The culprit is most likely the MoBo then.

One more thing... Are the standoffs still keeping your MoBo adequately away from touching the case?


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## Swoosieque (Jan 22, 2017)

Dethroy said:


> Wow, that means that the machine possibly even shuts down before it actually attempts to POST. The culprit is most likely the MoBo then.
> 
> One more thing... Are the standoffs still keeping your MoBo adequately away from touching the case?




Yes, it shuts down before trying to POST.  I'm sure, now, that it's the MoBo. 

What do you mean "standoffs"?  Ohhhhh, the little rubber 'boots'?  Yep, they're okay.

Installed the new power switch and graphic card.  Problem still exists, and I can't even install an O/S on my new hard drive.  Next step, new MoBo, RAM, CPU.  I may as well buy a new power supply too, then everything will be new.  Sigh...


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## silkstone (Jan 22, 2017)

It's a pity as the Q9400 is a nice chip for what you use it for. 

But, everything is old enough now that a full upgrade is certainly worth it.


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## Dethroy (Jan 23, 2017)

Swoosieque said:


> Yes, it shuts down before trying to POST.  I'm sure, now, that it's the MoBo.
> 
> What do you mean "standoffs"?  Ohhhhh, the little rubber 'boots'?  Yep, they're okay.


Pretty certain it is the motherboard indeed. I just feel sorry for you, that you went through all those hoops, just to arrive at said conclusion.


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## P4-630 (Jan 23, 2017)

"_Is my computer dying?_"

Yep! As soon as you start using it,  it's dying slowly...
Nothing you can do about it.


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## Swoosieque (Jan 23, 2017)

silkstone said:


> It's a pity as the Q9400 is a nice chip for what you use it for.
> 
> But, everything is old enough now that a full upgrade is certainly worth it.



No kidding, eh?  But my husband is 'frugal' and wants to take the mobo in and have it 'fixed'.  NO!  It's time to finish the rebuild.  Heck, this computer has outlasted anyone's that I know.  



Dethroy said:


> Pretty certain it is the motherboard indeed. I just feel sorry for you, that you went through all those hoops, just to arrive at said conclusion.



Actually, it's okay, the only money spent that will be lost is the RAM (DDR2) which I won't be able to use on a new mobo, but the graphic card and CMOS battery will be okay, as well as the new power switch for the SEVENTEEN year old case!!  

Now, I'm really bummed, thinking it's 5 o'clock somewhere and ready to crack open a pint.

Anyway, here are the components I'm looking at for a new rebuild:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132575&ignorebbr=1

*ASUS H170 PRO GAMING LGA 1151 Intel H170 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard *
LGA1151 socet

Dual DDR4 2133 support

SupremeFX

Sonic Radar II

Intel Gigabit Ethernet, LANGuard, and GameFirstIII

RAMCache

Gamer's Guardian

USB 3.1 Type-A/C and M.2

*Intel Core i3-6100 3M 3.7 GHz LGA 1151 BX80662I36100 Desktop Processor* 
14nm Skylake 51W

3MB L3 Cache

2 x 256KB L2 Cache

Intel HD Graphics 530
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103099&ignorebbr=1
*Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - CPU Cooler with 120 mm PWM Fan* 
600 - 2000 RPM (PWM) +/- 10%

24.9 - 82.9 CFM +/- 10%

Aluminum
*Crucial 4GB DDR4-2133 UDIMM **CT4G4DFS8213*

*Brand:* Crucial

* Form Factor: * UDIMM

* Total Capacity: * 4GB

* Warranty: * Limited Lifetime

* Specs: * DDR4 PC4-17000 • CL=15 • Single Ranked • x8 based • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR4-2133 • 1.2V • 512Meg x 64 •

* Series: * Crucial

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438048&ignorebbr=1
*EVGA SuperNOVA 650 GS 220-GS-0650-V1 80+ GOLD 650W Fully Modular EVGA ECO Mode Includes FREE Power On Self Tester Power Supply*
ATX12V / EPS12V

Full Modular

80 PLUS GOLD Certified

100 - 240 V 50/60 Hz

+3.3V@20A, +5V@20A, +12V@54A, +5VSB@2.5A, -12V@0.3A
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA85V3DG9459&ignorebbr=1
*Lite-On iHAS124-04 24x SATA DVD+/-RW Dual Layer DVD Burner (Black)*
UPC: 4718390028097

Weight: 1.350 lbs


I'm going to call Crucial and see if I can exchange the DDR2 RAM that I bought and trade for the DDR3, of course with whatever the cost difference is.

But, This build, all at New Egg, is around $500 U.S.

Any thoughts on this MoBo, etc..?  Remember, I'm not a gamer, just play Word with Friends, BUT, I do a LOT of spreadsheet work and transcription work, I need accurate calculations.

THanks so much for any further input.


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## MagnyCours (Jan 23, 2017)

The CPU you picked is on a newer socket (LGA 1151) and is incompatible with the Z97 you picked. So you should look for a motherboard that supports Skylake CPUs (Z170, H170, etc.) like this one for example:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132575


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## Swoosieque (Jan 23, 2017)

MagnyCours said:


> The CPU you picked is on a newer socket (LGA 1151) and is incompatible with the Z97 you picked. So you should look for a motherboard that supports Skylake CPUs (Z170, H170, etc.) like this one for example:
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132575



Man oh man am I glad you took a look at this.  That's what I am worried about, overlooking stupid things like that!  I thought I looked at it, but you are right!  That would've been a big goof!  Thank you! 

Also, in changing the mobo, I had to change the RAM from DDR3 to DDR4.  Thanks so much!


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## sneekypeet (Jan 23, 2017)

Swoosieque said:


> I'm going to call Crucial and see if I can exchange the DDR2 RAM that I bought and trade for the DDR3, of course with whatever the cost difference is.



Crucial has great customer service! Most likely they will indeed help you out in this situation. Just know that they will likely want to charge the full amount of the new RAM to a credit card, they then ship it out, and you return the older kit in the same box. They will then credit the card with whatever the agreed upon exchange was.


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## Swoosieque (Jan 23, 2017)

sneekypeet said:


> Crucial has great customer service! Most likely they will indeed help you out in this situation. Just know that they will likely want to charge the full amount of the new RAM to a credit card, they then ship it out, and you return the older kit in the same box. They will then credit the card with whatever the agreed upon exchange was.



Actually, just got of  chat with an agent.  They'll do the refund first, and then I'll order the new RAM.  Hey, that's great news!  Now I'm not out $50+!


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## Vario (Jan 24, 2017)

Can you do 8GB ram?  Well worth it in todays world, 4GB is just not enough now.


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## Swoosieque (Jan 24, 2017)

Vario said:


> Can you do 8GB ram?  Well worth it in todays world, 4GB is just not enough now.



Yes.  Haven't ordered any of the parts yet, still double-checking, but will go with 2x4GB DDR4 RAM.


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## Vario (Jan 25, 2017)

Swoosieque said:


> Yes.  Haven't ordered any of the parts yet, still double-checking, but will go with 2x4GB DDR4 RAM.



Here is a possibility if you want faster 8GB option, this 3466 G.Skill kit with Samsung ICs.  Compatibility with the Asus H170 Pro shown here:
https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/H170-PRO/HelpDesk_QVL/

G.SKILL F4-3466C16D-8GVK 8GB(4GB*2) SS Samsung K4A4G085WD 16-18-18-38 1.35V
NewEgg: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231904 $72.99

There are plenty of other ram that are compatible on that Asus list.  However I have found Samsung ram to be the highest quality and G.Skill is a well regarded brand with a limited lifetime warranty.


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## Swoosieque (Jan 25, 2017)

Vario said:


> Here is a possibility if you want faster 8GB option, this 3466 G.Skill kit with Samsung ICs.  Compatibility with the Asus H170 Pro shown here:
> https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/H170-PRO/HelpDesk_QVL/
> 
> G.SKILL F4-3466C16D-8GVK 8GB(4GB*2) SS Samsung K4A4G085WD 16-18-18-38 1.35V
> ...



It's been such a long time (10 yrs.) since my last build, and at that time, Crucial was highly regarded for quality, that's why I picked Crucial memory for this new build, but, things change in the blink of an eye in the tech world.  I've got 10 yrs. of catching up to do! 

And now, my husband is telling me his ideas about a totally different build, starting with a Xeon processor, he said he found one for only $55 U.S.  I don't like that idea of getting someone else's used components because if it were still good, why sell it?


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## rtwjunkie (Jan 25, 2017)

Swoosieque said:


> It's been such a long time (10 yrs.) since my last build, and at that time, Crucial was highly regarded for quality, that's why I picked Crucial memory for this new build, but, things change in the blink of an eye in the tech world.  I've got 10 yrs. of catching up to do!
> 
> And now, my husband is telling me his ideas about a totally different build, starting with a Xeon processor, he said he found one for only $55 U.S.  I don't like that idea of getting someone else's used components because if it were still good, why sell it?



Crucial is still a reliable and respected brand.  So is Mushkin. So is G Skill. Catch my drift? People have their preferences. Also, within each brand there are great and not so great models.

As to used components, people by and large sell their used components because they got the itch for something newer and even better, not because anything is wrong with it.

I've bought and sold used components for over 15 years, and have yet to get a broken one or a dud.  For more peace of mind, we have a buy, sell, trade forum here on TPU.


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## Swoosieque (Jan 25, 2017)

rtwjunkie said:


> Crucial is still a reliable and respected brand.  So is Mushkin. So is G Skill. Catch my drift? People have their preferences. Also, within each brand there are great and not so great models.
> 
> As to used components, people by and large sell their used components because they got the itch for something newer and even better, not because anything is wrong with it.
> 
> I've bought and sold used components for over 15 years, and have yet to get a broken one or a dud.  For more peace of mind, we have a buy, sell, trade forum here on TPU.



Thanks so much.  I will have to have a look at TPU's buy/sell section.


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