# NVIDIA Plans GT300 Demos in September



## btarunr (Aug 28, 2009)

It looks like NVIDIA doesn't want AMD to drench the media and consumers with enough hype to ensure a smooth, profitable launch of its "Evergreen" family of DirectX 11 GPUs. The party-crasher this time around is NVIDIA's GT300 graphics processor, which sources claim to be continuing on NVIDIA's design methodology of a powerful, monolithic GPU. AMD's itinerary for September looks fairly clear: press-briefings on and around the 10th (we'll be heading to Munich for ours), a number of previews that follow, and launches towards the end of the month, and market availability soon after, in October. 

In essence, AMD ends up with all the limelight for the better part of the quarter, in the run up for the crucial November~December shopping season. Meanwhile, the green camp is reportedly readying its own press-briefings of the GT300 GPU. These will be held in late September. To what scale will the briefings be held, or how ready are they with engineering samples is not known as yet, but possibly enough to gain public attention for its DirectX 11 GPUs.

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## ab_box (Aug 28, 2009)

I Hope that AMD will know how to fight against this party-crusher


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## AltecV1 (Aug 28, 2009)

and nvidia strikes back!


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## TooFast (Aug 28, 2009)

sure.... they wont have till nov/dec


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## Solaris17 (Aug 28, 2009)

TooFast said:


> sure.... they wont have till nov/dec



ya AMDS pretty nifty with early releases.


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## mdm-adph (Aug 28, 2009)

Oh, of course they bloody would, wouldn't they.


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## Valdez (Aug 28, 2009)

It looks like nvidia is very desperate


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## mdm-adph (Aug 28, 2009)

Valdez said:


> It looks like nvidia is very desperate



Oh, I wish.  They've got more than twice ATI's market share.  

They're just being dicks, that's all.


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Aug 28, 2009)

demos with no products suck ass


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## wiak (Aug 28, 2009)

GT300 demos aka vapor demo in september when amd will hard launch release their RV870 Evergreen


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## Selene (Aug 28, 2009)

Cant wait till the bench marks start flying around once both camps cards are out, but i will hold off on a new DX11 card till at least the first refresh on the GT300's so maybe 3/th QT of 2010 I might get some thing.
I dont for see any new games comming that will need it, so far Dirt2 is the only announce game, and  from the DX10 videos it looks good enough for me with out DX11.


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## AltecV1 (Aug 28, 2009)

mdm-adph said:


> Oh, I wish.  They've got more than twice ATI's market share.
> 
> They're just being dicks, that's all.



they are dick´s


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## AltecV1 (Aug 28, 2009)

Selene said:


> Cant wait till the bench marks start flying around once both camps cards are out, but i will hold off on a new DX11 card till at least the first refresh on the GT300's so maybe 3/th QT of 2010 I might get some thing.
> I dont for see any new games comming that will need it, so far Dirt2 is the only announce game, and  from the DX10 videos it looks good enough for me with out DX11.



forget dx11 atleast for now and concentrate on pure power of these cards


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## kenkickr (Aug 28, 2009)

So according to Jen-Hsun Huang claim that GPU's will be 570 times faster in/around 6 years then this GT300 must be 95 times faster than the 8/9/GT2xx series cards.  If this is true Jen why are you(Nvidia) getting desperate?  I could only image a ATI card 95x faster/better than a 4890


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## erocker (Aug 28, 2009)

Who cares what some company stooge has to say. I hope these cards are good and fast! Competition is needed between the brands. Who wins? Who cares, as long as technology improves and prices keep low. The release of this generation of cards is nothing more than history repeating itself. Of course Nvidia will most likely be launching a card faster than ATI's DX11 cards. Why wouldn't they? History proves they will. Anyways, waiting for benchmarks. I also smell something stinky with two AMD VP's going over to work for Nvidia. You think AMD and Nvidia could be working together? I do. Keep your friends close but your enemies closer.


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Aug 28, 2009)

copmetiton is the name of the game .. i remember hav9ing to spend 200 dollars to get a midrange card  a lame one at that ..


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## JATownes (Aug 28, 2009)

AMD: Here are our very powerful DX11 cards...and you can buy one in two weeks at a reasonable price

NVidia: Here are our even more powerful DX11 cards, and you can buy one in 6 months, and they will cost a bazillion dollars...  

AMD FTW


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## lemonadesoda (Aug 28, 2009)

nVidia needs to run a marketing campaign:

*"FOREVER GREEN, nVIDIA"*

That would completely SPOIL ATI's attempt at branding themselves "evergreen". nVidia is green already. They can pull it off big time... such that ANY marketing spend by ATI on "evergreen" will backfire... people will reassociate green and "forevergreen" with nV.

Good luck chaps. Get your marketing team together this weekend, and pull it off.


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## HammerON (Aug 28, 2009)

I personally am anxious to see the GTX 295 replacement


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## trt740 (Aug 28, 2009)

TooFast said:


> sure.... they wont have till nov/dec



or later


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## DarthCyclonis (Aug 28, 2009)

I'm anxious to see Nvidia fail...And hopefully either go out find decent,friendly and customer oriented officers or be bought by someone.  They do make decent cards but the knuckle heads running the corporation need to go.


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## Sihastru (Aug 28, 2009)

_Disclaimer: Most of the comments so far are from ATI fan boys, so I will attempt to equalize the scale a little bit, so don't throw any *snappy* comebacks at me... they are not required._

Since there are absolutely no DX11 games out there, and there are DX10 cards that can play almost all current games (except Crysis - which somehow I've managed to play on my GeForce Go 7900GS tucked somewhere in my Inspiron), I don't see why you'll want to rush over and buy expensive ATI/AMD gear.

And if in this tech demo, the GT300 is more powerful then what ATI has to offer, then I really can't see why you won't wait... unless you have ATI stamped on you brain... ATI is making a simple incremental upgrade of their existing technology, essentially upping the number of the SPUs, and doubling the ROPs... a big mistake on ATI's part, the number of ROPs should've been increased ages ago. On the other hand nVidia is changing a lot of things in it's core design, switching from SIMD to MIMD and adding DDR5 (I know ATI has it already, but nVidia will *presumably* have more bandwidth as a result of a wider bus). Their only problem is that they are keeping the monolithic design of the GPU, and this translates into higher production costs then ATI has to deal with.

So when you see an ATI card that performs the same as an nVidia card as the same price, you should know that ATI makes more money then nVidia does. So it is questionable about who is screwing who over. So far nVidia has to cope with very high production costs of the PCB because of wide bus DDR3 implementation, and the presence of the NVIO chip. Hopefully switching to DDR5 will make the PCB a lot simpler and cheaper for nVidia to manufacture and maybe it will have a fighting chance on the price front. 

I see people thinking that RV870 will be hard-launched in September. It will be hard launched in December actually, on the 10th. Repeat after me... September paper launch, December = hard launch. Buying at launch always hurts your wallet. You can repeat that 100 times. 

If you own a GTX275 or a HD4890 or better card, buying into this ATI DX11 hype now will hurt later, when prices drop and there are actually DX11 games worth playing. If you have a GTX260 SLI or a 4870/90 CF setup then you're making the biggest mistake of your life.

If you are made of money, if you have rich parents and they spoil you, if you've inherited a large sum of cache, if the banking system made an error in your favor, ignore what I said and just buy the damn thing, so we can all have benchmarks to compare our hopefully better GT300 cards with.

Take it easy, life is hard, don't just kill me yet, wait 9 months, see how it goes.


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## Imsochobo (Aug 28, 2009)

I bet nvidia isnt pushing any prices down, they cant afford it straight away.

Why?

They're loosing money, and they need the income, and ati goes for same launch prices as with HD4xxx.

Nvidia will loose some ground cause this early ati launch i guess, DX11 games is launched straight away btw. Grid2 is a game im looking forward to, loved grid1 ;D


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## enzolt (Aug 28, 2009)

glad to hear this actually. now i have a comparison on which card to buy next.


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## manufans0607 (Aug 28, 2009)

Sihastru said:


> _Disclaimer: Most of the comments so far are from ATI fan boys, so I will attempt to equalize the scale a little bit, so don't throw any *snappy* comebacks at me... they are not required._
> 
> Since there are absolutely no DX11 games out there, and there are DX10 cards that can play almost all current games (except Crysis - which somehow I've managed to play on my GeForce Go 7900GS tucked somewhere in my Inspiron), I don't see why you'll want to rush over and buy expensive ATI/AMD gear.
> 
> ...



Will you change you're graphics card and buy ATi 5800 series?? You only have 8800GTS and that's an old thing..I bet you will


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## TheGuruStud (Aug 28, 2009)

Sihastru:

We will NOT have ANY logic or reasoning in this discussion. Understood?


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## Sihastru (Aug 28, 2009)

This is just my workstation, my gaming rig has a Q9550@3.4, 8GB ram, RAID0 HDDs, and a GTX295.


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## erocker (Aug 28, 2009)

Sihastru said:


> _Disclaimer: Most of the comments so far are from ATI fan boys, so I will attempt to equalize the scale a little bit, so don't throw any *snappy* comebacks at me... they are not required._
> 
> Since there are absolutely no DX11 games out there, and there are DX10 cards that can play almost all current games (except Crysis - which somehow I've managed to play on my GeForce Go 7900GS tucked somewhere in my Inspiron), I don't see why you'll want to rush over and buy expensive ATI/AMD gear.
> 
> ...



Disclaimer: I'm not a fan boy of any product. To allegience yourself with a corporation without getting paid isn't logical to me. I am also not agreeing nor disagreeing with you, just commenting. Anyhoo...



> I don't see why you'll want to rush over and buy expensive ATI/AMD gear.


I really don't understand that comment, other than if you are talking about the premium price people will be paying for new gear. Retail price for the RV870 is $299.00 USD. Reasonable price considering it's history. However, you and I both know retail/etail shops are going to be wanting more money from your wallet.



> And if in this tech demo, the GT300 is more powerful then what ATI has to offer, then I really can't see why you won't wait...



Price. Unless Nvidia can make these new cards at low cost and sell them at lower prices, their retail prices will be higher. If the do accomplish a card that beats it's competitors and is a good price, I'll be the first to get one. If prices are ridiculous and they produce significantly more performance, but with no reall world diference in terms of game play (80fps vs. 110fps for example), I would rather save my money and get a different card. Hopefully though, like you said the new design with GDDR5 will be cost efficient. 



> If you are made of money, if you have rich parents and they spoil you, if you've inherited a large sum of cache, if the banking system made an error in your favor, ignore what I said and just buy the damn thing, so we can all have benchmarks to compare our hopefully better GT300 cards with.



Some of us bust our asses for a living and reward ourselves with glorious computer hardware to forget about our toils. 

ATi cards will be on retail shelves by October 22nd btw. This has been verified from ATi and manufacturers in several news posts. Now, I hope Nvidia gets their cards out soon. The sooner the better.


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## Sihastru (Aug 28, 2009)

I know that US citizens (and maybe Canada citizens) will have the chance to buy these cards at the suggested 300$ MRSP. But for Europeans, like myself, I'm expecting at least 300 Euro + VAT. Depending on what country you live in, VAT can be lower or higher (19% for me). Then the distributor/retailer has to make some money, so he will add a little something on top of that. So you can see my pain, when I have to pay up to 400 Euros for a 300 USD piece of plastic? And 1 Euro goes for more then 1.4 USD at this time.


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## manufans0607 (Aug 28, 2009)

I think I'll buy 5870 because my current graphics card is too old  and I'm sure I will get more advantage with that card. ATi is more reasonable with the price than nvidia....And you'll see many of DX11's games like Dirt 2, Grid 2, F1 2010, Lost Planet, Crysis 2, Battlefield. I have a feeling now that ATi will be the king with the DX11 graphics card...Nvidia is always overpriced for me


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## t77snapshot (Aug 28, 2009)

I don't know what to say really.... I am an AMD / Nvidia user. I wish the best for both companies.


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## Mistral (Aug 28, 2009)

Sihastru, thanks for the humorous post 

The DAAMIT cards will be out in October though, and there's someone I need to pass that 9800 to, so...


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## ArmoredCavalry (Aug 28, 2009)

[I.R.A]_FBi said:


> demos with no products suck ass



Yeah, but they will have graphs! In bright exciting colors!! Probably something similar to this:







As you can see the cards will definitely be fast... Probably... We can't say for sure though....


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## Sihastru (Aug 28, 2009)

Mistral said:


> Sihastru, thanks for the humorous post
> 
> The DAAMIT cards will be out in October though, and there's someone I need to pass that 9800 to, so...



NP  It was my intention.

Yes, a G92 or any ATI card that's lower then 4870 may warrant an upgrade. Even to an RV870 card.

Even if the products are not here yet, we'll have a rough idea about the performance, so I don't see the harm. Maybe it is just fear in disguise.


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## btarunr (Aug 28, 2009)

Sihastru said:


> _Disclaimer: Most of the comments so far are from ATI fan boys, so I will attempt to equalize the scale a little bit, so don't throw any *snappy* comebacks at me... they are not required._
> 
> Since there are absolutely no DX11 games out there, and there are DX10 cards that can play almost all current games (except Crysis - which somehow I've managed to play on my GeForce Go 7900GS tucked somewhere in my Inspiron), I don't see why you'll want to rush over and buy expensive ATI/AMD gear.



Not expensive. It's cheaper than NVIDIA, and powerful at that. People aren't going OMG over DirectX 11, they're going OMG over something that's going to outperform GTX 260 216, GTX 285, and GTX 295, _and force NVIDIA to pull down prices_. So ATI is doing charity here. That's what people are going OMG about.



Sihastru said:


> And if in this tech demo, the GT300 is more powerful then what ATI has to offer, then I really can't see why you won't wait... unless you have ATI stamped on you brain...


'

If you paid $300 for a GeForce 8800 GTS-512 and don't like the idea of something twice as powerful for half its price, I don't see why you should wait.. unless you have NVIDIA stamped on you brain... 

but since you have a GTX295, you could. Since most don't, they needn't.



Sihastru said:


> So when you see an ATI card that performs the same as an nVidia card as the same price, you should know that ATI makes more money then nVidia does. So it is questionable about who is screwing who over. So far nVidia has to cope with very high production costs of the PCB because of wide bus DDR3 implementation, and the presence of the NVIO chip. Hopefully switching to DDR5 will make the PCB a lot simpler and cheaper for nVidia to manufacture and maybe it will have a fighting chance on the price front.



It doesn't matter who's making more money over whom. At the end your money is going to them, they are giving you a graphics card, deal done. Play your game at xxx fps you paid $yyy for. 



Sihastru said:


> I see people thinking that RV870 will be hard-launched in September. It will be hard launched in December actually, on the 10th. Repeat after me... September paper launch, December = hard launch. Buying at launch always hurts your wallet. You can repeat that 100 times.



Repeat this [insert your value + 1] times: hard launch = available at a store, ready to add in cart, ready to swipe card, ready to take home. And that's way sooner that December 10.



Sihastru said:


> If you own a GTX275 or a HD4890 or better card, buying into this ATI DX11 hype now will hurt later, when prices drop and there are actually DX11 games worth playing. If you have a GTX260 SLI or a 4870/90 CF setup then you're making the biggest mistake of your life.



People gave up GeForce 9800 GX2 for Radeon HD 4870 X2. They gave up 9800 GT for HD 4850. They even gave up HD 4870 X2 for GTX 295, and HD 4850 for GTS 250. It's called incremental upgrades. For those graduating from say a 9800 GT, there's no reason why they shouldn't buy this....or wait for GTX 300 series....or wait for Radeon HD 6000 series...or wait for GTX 400 series......



Sihastru said:


> If you are made of money, if you have rich parents and they spoil you, if you've inherited a large sum of cache, if the banking system made an error in your favor, ignore what I said and just buy the damn thing, so we can all have benchmarks to compare our hopefully better GT300 cards with.



No. I save $2 a day, so I can buy a $400 card every 6 or so months. Buying high-end hardware every now and then doesn't require being made of money, having rich parents, or an inheritance. All it requires is a hobby....being a computer enthusiast is.



Sihastru said:


> Take it easy, life is hard, don't just kill me yet, wait 9 months, see how it goes.



Yeah keep waiting.


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## enzolt (Aug 28, 2009)

i actually skip breakfast and lunch for a month or so just so i can save up for a new card. parents arent rich either. being a college student, $100 a month allowance to buy books, food, and supplies isnt a whole lot of cash. you dont gotta have rich parents, an inheritance or be made of money. if you love something, you work hard for it.


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## SteelSix (Aug 28, 2009)

erocker said:


> Some of us bust our asses for a living and reward ourselves with glorious computer hardware to forget about our toils.



+1000! Well said sir..


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Aug 28, 2009)

> No. I save $2 a day, so I can buy a $400 card every 6 or so months



Think i might start doing this


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## Sihastru (Aug 28, 2009)

I have to admit I do have a little nVidia logo on my brain, with a tiny PhysX logo on my retina (that hurt like hell  ). It's only because of some personal experiences with products from both companies, and less because of price or performance.

I fear that with the simple modifications ATI made to these cards, there won't be much OMG! performance wise, and we will have to deal with OMG! marketing DX11 and tesselation. But I'm just guessing, not hoping. As I'm also guessing that that GT300 will be a monster and will outperform this. There is a little hoping too, I admit. Just so I can see some smug smiles wiped from some faces.

It does matter which company makes more money. Because people think ATI is a "good" company that cares about more then your money. There's no such thing. They can afford these prices and much less.

Since I have the bloody GTX295, I think it's safe to say that I am a bit of a video card enthusiast. But a time comes when I don't care about benchmarks as much as I care about games.

In my country the GTX295 costs just 25 Euros more then an HD4870X2... Strange, but what can you do... it's life... So your situation may not be the same as my situation. I am not made of money, but I can afford to buy this new not benchmarked yet ATI card even at 400 Euros. But is it going to make a difference over a GTX295. If it's not going to make a huge 400 Euro difference, then is it a good idea to buy this card? We'll see. Is the GT300 going to make the same difference over the RV870 that the RV870 made on the dual GT200? Then is this difference enough to warrant an upgrage from RV870 to a GT300? We'll see...

Waiting in vain for the next best thing is not what I meant. But RV870 and GT300 are the same generation (or will be). Waiting for the other next generation is not what I am proposing. I am only urging people to maintain a critical eye and consider both options. Even if GT300 is more expensive maybe it will be also more powerful... Who knows... we'll see...


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## btarunr (Aug 28, 2009)

ATI won't invest in new hardware if it can't outperform convincingly. There's a reason why there's no HD 4890 X2. ATI knows DirectX 11 and a bunch of new technologies alone won't be enough to sell HD 5000 series. DirectX 10.1 couldn't. See?


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## Sihastru (Aug 28, 2009)

I am hoping this is true. Until now every new card outperformed the card it was replacing two fold. But the numbers don't quite add up, maybe there's something I'm missing or the details that were made public so far are not true.


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## btarunr (Aug 28, 2009)

To be honest, we don't know how fast it's going to be. For the good of even those with "NVIDIA" tattooed or even branded on some part of their bodies, let's hope the new cards are fast(er). So that even they can buy NVIDIA hardware for cheap.


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## CDdude55 (Aug 28, 2009)

While you guys are buying these.

I will be getting a GTX 260, at my res it should be more then enough for gaming.


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## dalekdukesboy (Aug 28, 2009)

manufans0607 said:


> Will you change you're graphics card and buy ATi 5800 series?? You only have 8800GTS and that's an old thing..I bet you will




see...I don't get this, I have an 8800gts 512 OC'd and in my e8600 rig and with everything as it is I can run any game at just about any setting except crysis which with all settings on high except one I think at 1680 x 1020 I never go below 30 fps generally and more often than not it's showing 50-70 in the fraps counter...yes I'd like to upgrade, but truthfully unless I must have anti-aliasing and every setting as high as possible and 2560 x 1600 resolution on everything as I said I can run any current game with great fluidity and at settings that are nothing to be scoffed at.  So needing a 295gtx I think is a fallacy and a myth unless perfection is required, and price and heat aren't an issue.  And I'll really laugh if these new cards will keep up with 500$ current cards with less heat, better oc'ing and at a 300'ish dollar price point.


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## JATownes (Aug 29, 2009)

CDdude55 said:


> While you guys are buying these.
> 
> I will be getting a GTX 260, at my res it should be more then enough for gaming.



This is sorta the same plan I have...Buy a pair of 4890s when the 5000 series launch (price drop) then grab a pair of 5870s when the GT300 series launch (another price drop)...I think NVidia is a good company, but their cost of production drives their cards out of my price range...The GT300 might be more powerful than the RV870, but when I am gaming will my eyes be able to tell the $$$ difference?  I think not...

ATI has provided great bang for buck in recent years, while NVidia only provides the bang if you are willing to part with more bucks...

Also, I am a dual card junkie (dual cards make the girls get wet ) and lets all face it, CrossfireX scales MUCH better than SLI...Just my opinion.

Give me the GT300 that will romp 5870 and price it at ~$300 and NVidia will probably have a new customer...until then, I will stick with ATI


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## AltecV1 (Aug 29, 2009)

please stop with the ati and nvidia bashing!!!:shadedshu


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## erocker (Aug 29, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> please stop with the ati and nvidia bashing!!!:shadedshu



I don't see any bashing. Carry on.


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## AltecV1 (Aug 29, 2009)

erocker said:


> I don't see any bashing. Carry on.



you dont see it because you dont have the gift of reading between the lines,like me


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## KainXS (Aug 29, 2009)

I am usually a nvidia fanboy , and if nvidia can show me a good gpu with good specs then I might wait, but if ATI shows up teh party and releases the 5870 with 1600SP's then I'm just gonna buy that instead unless nvidia really blows my mind with their demo, I'm using a 8800GS right now since I sold my main PC to build a new one, and since a 1600SP 5870 will probably outperform a 4870X2, im game for that.

But nvidia has a reputation of overpricing all their cards at launch, which makes me look to the red camp.


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## Steevo (Aug 29, 2009)

Nvidia is making less per unit than ATI due to their monolithic monster, competitive prices & performance, and yield loss on that huge die.


Simply put, they gambled and lost.

The huge upgrade for the 4890 was the clocking ability, they are catering to the extreme overclockers, can you imagine what four 4890's with 2GB RAm each and a quad at 6GHz would do to benchmarks? I have a 940 at 3.75Ghz currently, and am waiting for the 58XX series with 2GB on them to get the performance I want. 


I can think of a few reasons to buy it, more vmem, more speed, and new support. So right now there are very few games I can't play at max settings, and the only reason i have to upgrade is to play GTA4 at max settings.....which requires more vmem, and if when that time comes Nvidia has a superior product with enough junk to run it, at a price I can afford, they win.


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## Animalpak (Aug 29, 2009)

Everybody have high expectations from GT300, me inlcuded... Hope Nvidia make that card fine, as always.


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## CDdude55 (Aug 29, 2009)

> I can think of a few reasons to buy it, more vmem, more speed, and new support. So right now there are very few games I can't play at max settings, and the only reason i have to upgrade is to play GTA4 at max settings.....which requires more vmem, and if when that time comes Nvidia has a superior product with enough junk to run it, at a price I can afford, they win.



GTA IV is coded pretty badly, the game hates having more then one card and no matter if you can play the game on high it still hiccups at times.


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## Steevo (Aug 29, 2009)

CDdude55 said:


> GTA IV is coded pretty badly, the game hates having more then one card and no matter if you can play the game on high it still hiccups at times.



Bull Shit


GTA4 was coded for the 360 and then for the PS3, and the 360 was moved over to the PC, alot of dipshits just have to understand that Rock* was tired of getting the usual flack about graphics quality, so they went to the other extreme, and I for one am glad. 


Finally a game with good graphics, and a long, long, long gameplay and story that keeps you involved. Fuck Crysis, GTA4 is the shit.


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## eidairaman1 (Aug 29, 2009)

CDdude55 said:


> GTA IV is coded pretty badly, the game hates having more then one card and no matter if you can play the game on high it still hiccups at times.



Practically a Port from XB/PS3


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## phanbuey (Aug 29, 2009)

ArmoredCavalry said:


> Yeah, but they will have graphs! In bright exciting colors!! Probably something similar to this:
> 
> http://forums.techpowerup.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27995&d=1251496377
> 
> As you can see the cards will definitely be fast... Probably... We can't say for sure though....



that graph is just epic...


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## CDdude55 (Aug 29, 2009)

Steevo said:


> Bull Shit
> 
> 
> GTA4 was coded for the 360 and then for the PS3, and the 360 was moved over to the PC, alot of dipshits just have to understand that Rock* was tired of getting the usual flack about graphics quality, so they went to the other extreme, and I for one am glad.
> ...



As a person who has had the game for PS3 and PC, the PS3 version runs way better then the PC one. As for looks it depends, the PC version still has no AA and for people like me, i have to run it at 800x600 and it _still _hiccups, dont you see a problem with that?



> alot of dipshits just have to understand that Rock* was tired of getting the usual flack about graphics quality, so they went to the other extreme, and I for one am glad.



So the other extreme was to have it run like a POS and have them think to themselves 'well at least it looks nice',awesome.

The story is fantastic, and the gameplay is nice, the performance is shit and until its fixed its still the inferior version of the game.


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## TheGuruStud (Aug 29, 2009)

LOL at gta4 on PS3. It was painful to watch the constant 20 fps. It does take a quad core to run worth a shit on PC, but at least the frame rate was smooth and higher. Plus the added bonus of resolution and draw distance that didn't make it look like a ps2 game.


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## Easy Rhino (Aug 29, 2009)

smart business move by nvidia. you cant let the competition get all the press. ill be buying on of these g300 cards mainly because i have an nforce sli chipset on my motherboard. obviously i could still run an amd card on the board, but then i would just be spending money on a card that i cant add on to with the board that i already own!


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## ArmoredCavalry (Aug 29, 2009)

Steevo said:


> Bull Shit
> 
> 
> GTA4 was coded for the 360 and then for the PS3, and the 360 was moved over to the PC, alot of dipshits just have to understand that Rock* was tired of getting the usual flack about graphics quality, so they went to the other extreme, and I for one am glad.
> ...



Eh, I have to disagree. Sure the graphics on GTAIV were better than the previous titles, but the best textures in the world don't help with immersion if they are being drawn on the building as you walk up to it...

As for the gameplay, GTA always has fun gameplay, the problem I had with GTAIV was this horrible thing called Games for Windows Live. I didn't play the game for about a month, then I go back, only to discover I can't load any of my saves. After investigation, I find that the files are still there, but I can't load them, because GFWL doesn't view those saves as mine (belonging to my account), and God forbid I play a saved game that isn't mine.... cause that would mean control over the product I own. No, can't have that...



CDdude55 said:


> As a person who has had the game for PS3 and PC, the PS3 version runs way better then the PC one. As for looks it depends, the PC version still has no AA and for people like me, i have to run it at 800x600 and it _still _hiccups, dont you see a problem with that?
> 
> So the other extreme was to have it run like a POS and have them think to themselves 'well at least it looks nice',awesome.
> 
> The story is fantastic, and the gameplay is nice, the performance is shit and until its fixed its still the inferior version of the game.



Bugs the crap out of me.  With all the graphical glitches it has. I can think of many games that I would peg as "having nicer graphics". So really the gameplay was the only redeeming feature for me. That is why if the next GTA game involves Games for Windows Live, I will not be touching it...


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## KainXS (Aug 29, 2009)

even when I had my core i7 pc whenever something exploded in gta4, fps went down to a crawl almost

is it horribly coded, I don't know, but does it run good on modern hardware, I will let you decide but I say no, as for the people who say its for future hardware, I say, well, there are games out there that are like 8 years old that you can't max with a 4870 and if GTA4 is like this, . . . . .


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## phanbuey (Aug 29, 2009)

Don't even bother with the "GTA IV is/isn't optimized" discussion - it will derail this thread.  Plus its been beaten to death and then some in almost every GTA IV thread


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## TheGuruStud (Aug 29, 2009)

haha

I think it would be easier to slap in another card vs getting these new ones. Even with xfire or sli perf loss, it'll be faster than the new cards.


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## Bjorn_Of_Iceland (Aug 30, 2009)

thats some wicked pshop skillz thar


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## Fitseries3 (Aug 30, 2009)

i do believe i announced this 3 weeks ago....

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=1506042&postcount=1659



Fitseries3 said:


> GT300 has been released to beta run. it will hit testers hands early september and should be out to public 2nd week of november.
> 
> thought you'd want to know this info.


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## ArmoredCavalry (Aug 30, 2009)

Bjorn_Of_Iceland said:


> thats some wicked pshop skillz thar



At first I was ignoring you signature, then I realized what it was.   



Fitseries3 said:


> i do believe i announced this 3 weeks ago....
> 
> http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=1506042&postcount=1659



Thanks.


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## Hayder_Master (Aug 30, 2009)

now we still see nvidia still going on same creed ("killing them best heroes") , the expensive GTX295 have a lead in for 6 month will be nothing when GT300 release , i should put him name with old heroes (7950X2,8800 G80 series GTS-GTX-ultra ,9800 GX2).


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## HellasVagabond (Aug 30, 2009)

Like i said a month ago NVIDIA already has early engineering samples of their new GPUS....The Demos will prove that to all those who said that we wouldnt see NVIDIA cards with DX11 before January.


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## AnnCore (Aug 30, 2009)

Like every hard launch, it's all about the e-penis, or e-boobs if you're a girl. Generally never makes sense to buy the flagship graphic card because your bang for the buck card is what makes sense if you are like most mortals...strapped for cash. That's why I still have a 9600 GT.

Still, if someone gives me a few hundred bucks, I might get something new. If not, I will gawk at the cards like it's fresh pr0n.


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## CDdude55 (Aug 30, 2009)

> the expensive GTX295 have a lead in for 6 month will be nothing when GT300 release



Maybe for you benchmarkers it will, but gaming wise it will still own for a long time.


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## KainXS (Aug 30, 2009)

who is anncore?


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## pantherx12 (Aug 30, 2009)

[I.R.A]_FBi said:


> Think i might start doing this




+1!

That's not a bad way of doing things at all.


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## Nkd (Aug 30, 2009)

Sihastru said:


> I have to admit I do have a little nVidia logo on my brain, with a tiny PhysX logo on my retina (that hurt like hell  ). It's only because of some personal experiences with products from both companies, and less because of price or performance.
> 
> I fear that with the simple modifications ATI made to these cards, there won't be much OMG! performance wise, and we will have to deal with OMG!QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## KainXS (Aug 30, 2009)

I agree with u nk, ATI as far as rumors go have 1200-1600sp's and 32 rops, now that alone is a major improvement, the question is how will the cards handle double the rops


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Aug 30, 2009)

HellasVagabond said:


> Like i said a month ago NVIDIA already has early engineering samples of their new GPUS....The Demos will prove that to all those who said that we wouldnt see NVIDIA cards with DX11 before January.



so ... how does an engineering sample help me the consumer?


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## btarunr (Aug 30, 2009)

[I.R.A]_FBi said:


> so ... how does an engineering sample help me the consumer?



Make you wait a couple of more months (till it's released), and then some more (till they're adequately in stock/available). Go with (p)reviews, never fall for demos.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Aug 30, 2009)

AnnCore,show me your e-boobs and i'll give ya $50.


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## jaydeejohn (Aug 30, 2009)

I think that the problem is, if people are willing to wait til this demo, and then wait again til release means theyve already made up their minds, and its pointless to show merit for other alternatives.
Its also pointless to show that this may be just alot of paper or whatever, taking the above into consideration, as well as we really dont know what nVidia has up its sleeves.
I know one thing, if I was neutral, and didnt really care about which card I want, Id be upset if nVidia didnt come thru as quickly as ATI on this, as nVidia is basically copying ATIs act, and thus, should follow thru like ATI as well, and if nVidia doesnt, call it a squeaky wheel taking up my time and frustrating me


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## <<Onafets>> (Aug 30, 2009)

nades for nvidia!
XD 

Told ya theyd make a comeback!


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## wolf (Aug 31, 2009)

Never ever a dull moment in this market 

can't wait till September


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## Steevo (Aug 31, 2009)

ArmoredCavalry said:


> Eh, I have to disagree. Sure the graphics on GTAIV were better than the previous titles, but the best textures in the world don't help with immersion if they are being drawn on the building as you walk up to it...
> 
> As for the gameplay, GTA always has fun gameplay, the problem I had with GTAIV was this horrible thing called Games for Windows Live. I didn't play the game for about a month, then I go back, only to discover I can't load any of my saves. After investigation, I find that the files are still there, but I can't load them, because GFWL doesn't view those saves as mine (belonging to my account), and God forbid I play a saved game that isn't mine.... cause that would mean control over the product I own. No, can't have that...
> 
> ...





I have done it, you just have to know what to do. I pulled my files from my last install into this one with a different GFWL ID and they run fine. 


If you have texture loading problems you need more vmem or a faster HDD, or more system memory, or faster system memory, or to update from XP for better memory handling.


Yes I know alot of people had/have issues with GTA4 and cry about it, but here I am with supposed "inferior" hardware and play it at 40+FPS at high resolution and have only had a couple hiccups. So something is wrong with this equasion.


Is it your Intel CPU? (Isn't Intel faster than AMD.......)
Is it your GPU? (Isn't a 4870 faster than a 4850?)
Is it your harddrive?
Is it your OS?



Choose one.


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## CDdude55 (Aug 31, 2009)

> If you have texture loading problems you need more vmem or a faster HDD, or more system memory, or faster system memory, or to update from XP for better memory handling.



Some people can't afford to upgrade for one game.



> Yes I know alot of people had/have issues with GTA4 and cry about it, but here I am with supposed "inferior" hardware and play it at 40+FPS at high resolution and have only had a couple hiccups. So something is wrong with this equasion.



Your hardware isn't inferior, the game is (compared to the console versions). They sacrificed performance for looks and even then there's still no AA. Its a badly coded game that can't scale for shit.(the actual game is good)



> Is it your Intel CPU? (Isn't Intel faster than AMD.......)
> Is it your GPU? (Isn't a 4870 faster than a 4850?)
> Is it your harddrive?
> Is it your OS?



Doesn't matter, hell, people running more then one card are getting even worst frames then people running a single card. Believe it or not, thats a problem.


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## Disruptor4 (Aug 31, 2009)

JATownes said:


> This is sorta the same plan I have...Buy a pair of 4890s when the 5000 series launch (price drop) then grab a pair of 5870s when the GT300 series launch (another price drop)...I think NVidia is a good company, but their cost of production drives their cards out of my price range...The GT300 might be more powerful than the RV870, but when I am gaming will my eyes be able to tell the $$$ difference?  I think not...



Personally I don't see the point in that. You could quite easily save money if you didn't buy those 4890's and just waited for the GT300 and then got the 5870's when GT300 is released.


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## JATownes (Aug 31, 2009)

Disruptor4 said:


> Personally I don't see the point in that. You could quite easily save money if you didn't buy those 4890's and just waited for the GT300 and then got the 5870's when GT300 is released.



That is very true...(same thing my wife says) ...But then I would have to keep my 4850s for another 3-5 months...

I guess since this is my hobby, I need new toys every six months or so...what can I say, I am addicted to hardware...


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## CDdude55 (Aug 31, 2009)

> But then I would have to keep my 4850s for another 3-5 months



So?, those are some great card. Especially for gaming.

But as i see, your addicted to hardware.lol


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Aug 31, 2009)

btarunr said:


> Make you wait a couple of more months (till it's released), and then some more (till they're adequately in stock/available). Go with (p)reviews, never fall for demos.



And lets not forget wait a couple months til the price gets reasonable


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## Wile E (Aug 31, 2009)

TheGuruStud said:


> LOL at gta4 on PS3. It was painful to watch the constant 20 fps. It does take a quad core to run worth a shit on PC, but at least the frame rate was smooth and higher. Plus the added bonus of resolution and draw distance that didn't make it look like a ps2 game.



BS. GTA4 doesn't run bad on ps3. It's perfectly smooth, even at 1080p (or is it 1080i, can't remember). I own it for both PC and ps3.

At any rate, I still can't max it on my PC because of it's extraordinary need for framebuffer. Wish I had 2GB cards. lol. Oh, and it runs better in xfire than it does in single gpu, so that's not the issue. If you get poor performance, 9 times out of 10, you have the details set too high for your amount of frame buffer, which causes it to go to system mem, which causes it to stutter. Keep it away from your framebuffer limits, and it plays smooth as silk most of the time. The other factor is your cpu. It's one of the few games that does benefit from a faster cpu. Crank a quad to the 3.5+ range, and you should be perfectly fine.

As for the 5800 series, I'll pass until either a DX11 game releases that I want, or the prices drop along the lines of what happened with the 4800 series, and I see what nv has to offer as a counter (provided I have an SLI capable board at that time).


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## wolf (Aug 31, 2009)

CDdude55 said:


> So?, those are some great card. _Especially for gaming_



really? damn man! all this time Ive been running 2 in CF to heat my room! 

but really is there any other use for a 4850 (not 2d/3d visuals) that takes up more than 10% of its time?


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## Disruptor4 (Aug 31, 2009)

JATownes said:


> That is very true...(same thing my wife says) ...But then I would have to keep my 4850s for another 3-5 months...
> 
> I guess since this is my hobby, I need new toys every six months or so...what can I say, I am addicted to hardware...



Fair enough!  If that is your passion, then that is your passion. You certainly have a different way of upgrading to me and there isn't anything wrong with that. 
I guess the main reason for me not upgrading is being extremely strapped for cash these days.


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## Hayder_Master (Aug 31, 2009)

CDdude55 said:


> Maybe for you benchmarkers it will, but gaming wise it will still own for a long time.




i should be more clear i point on the new technology DX11 and new DX11 gaming maybe you see high FPS with GTX295 but no DX11 options still remember same thing when 8800 series come after 7950GX2 and we see the benchmarks we see 7950GX2 rise on DX9 but i want play on DX10 so the same story back , and about two GPU have same DX version but different GPU  technology take the 9800GX2 see it is look great in benchmarks but GTX260 have better performance with gaming


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## tkpenalty (Aug 31, 2009)

I can tell the card will be fast, in terms of raw pace, but when it comes to the implementation of DX11 features, they'll fall flat on their faces. DX11 is about efficiency, and consistency for coders..


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## inferKNOX (Aug 31, 2009)

Valdez said:


> It looks like nvidia is very desperate





[I.R.A]_FBi said:


> demos with no products suck ass





wiak said:


> GT300 demos aka vapor demo in september when amd will hard launch release their RV870 Evergreen





AltecV1 said:


> they are dick´s





AltecV1 said:


> forget dx11 atleast for now and concentrate on pure power of these cards





JATownes said:


> AMD: Here are our very powerful DX11 cards...and you can buy one in two weeks at a reasonable price
> 
> NVidia: Here are our even more powerful DX11 cards, and you can buy one in 6 months, and they will cost a bazillion dollars...
> 
> AMD FTW





DarthCyclonis said:


> I'm anxious to see Nvidia fail...And hopefully either go out find decent,friendly and customer oriented officers or be bought by someone.  They do make decent cards but the knuckle heads running the corporation need to go.





Imsochobo said:


> I bet nvidia isnt pushing any prices down, they cant afford it straight away.
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...





tigger said:


> AnnCore,show me your e-boobs and i'll give ya $50.



+ 1 to you all! (yes, this is monolithic no. of quotes, sorry)
LOL, I love to hear how people bash ATi about DX10.1 & DX11 because it's relatively unused as yet, but praise nVidia's PhysX which is just the same, adoption wise. It's almost like saying, why the hell would Airbus make new fuel efficient planes when there's still plenty fuel, they need to wait until there's a shortage, then act.
I hope there market share of the 2 equalises, then there'll be a real GFX war, that will become even bigger with Intel's Larabee intro!


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## Hayder_Master (Aug 31, 2009)

tkpenalty said:


> I can tell the card will be fast, in terms of raw pace, but when it comes to the implementation of DX11 features, they'll fall flat on their faces. DX11 is about efficiency, and consistency for coders..



+1 , that's the important point


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## jaydeejohn (Aug 31, 2009)

Tesselation can bring more usable power with same features, if done right. DX10.1, with the 1 less pass is also beneficial, as other things.
DX11 brings alot of usable savings with it, for more eyecandy


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## Bjorn_Of_Iceland (Aug 31, 2009)

I'll just wait and see if further games up to 2011 will chug (less than 30fps average) on my current system.. other than that, its popcorn mode for moi.


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## vagxtr (Sep 17, 2009)

Sihastru said:


> _
> And if in this tech demo, the GT300 is more powerful then what ATI has to offer, then I really can't see why you won't wait... unless you have ATI stamped on you brain... ATI is making a simple incremental upgrade of their existing technology, essentially upping the number of the SPUs, and doubling the ROPs... a big mistake on ATI's part, the number of ROPs should've been increased ages ago. On the other hand nVidia is changing a lot of things in it's core design, switching from SIMD to MIMD and adding DDR5 (I know ATI has it already, but nVidia will *presumably* have more bandwidth as a result of a wider bus). Their only problem is that they are keeping the monolithic design of the GPU, and this translates into higher production costs then ATI has to deal with._


_

ATi has it's MIMD tech since R600 and it's engine technologicaly surpass nVidias built-in dx10 tweaks (g80-g92) onto old great g70's 9.0c core base. They just tweaked great leap forward with 2005. g70 release for how long now ... 4.5years and counting. While ATi has it's 16xSIMD core under same umbrella for 2.5yrs. Their r600 architechture in fact brought up something that should suppose to be "real dx10" and all they use to negotiate with ms was that their engine comply to something called dx10.1 (and that nVidia smartly d-toured)  And with only few improvements over it they build "tweaked, pumped up" dx11 core as you call it  ATi's dx10 engine (r600) was so close to what we see now as more pompously dx11, and only thing it lacked was true MIMD as nVidia fancy calls it. [I really wonder what real life miracle they'll brought to world behind that abbreviation?] On the other hand that "MIMD functionality" is base for dx11 compliance and we'd already saw it (AMD's June Taipei presentation) as AMD's multi threading communication between their 16 SIMD x 5 SP core packs.

So if they didn't really f*ck us with all that hype we'll end with pretty same real life functionality just differently implemented(?) and called. And who cares about their marketing names and what they'll really call their ingenuity. It would be great that all they doesn't mock us with all that nda stuff and pretend like they really reinventing the wheel.

And about that "Evergreen" stuff .... AMD's green lot longer than nVidia  It's just a petty that they killing great ATi brand and appearance. Shame on them. And how then they can still address to their performance pixie as Ruby ... while it should be more proper to call her *Esmeralda*  to fit their new appearance._


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## vagxtr (Sep 17, 2009)

btarunr said:


> If you paid $300 for a GeForce 8800 GTS-512 and don't like the idea of something twice as powerful for half its price, I don't see why you should wait.. unless you have NVIDIA stamped on you brain...



We allhoped for that steaming performance at 149USD for budget mainstream JuniperXT (RV840). But as clouds says now we'd be happy if we saw it at this price even after nVidia place some new offerings dx10.1 whatever on market. It could be another ripoff at 199USD+ like in RV350 times.

And is it true that new low end (Cedar/Redwood) ATi offerings will lack of PowerPlay features? It would be realy crappy feature that some budget card that could consume (W Cedar) <10W in 2D lacks that features. Another market ripoff (fraud?)

It's poor thing that AMD trails nVidia that put their HybridSLI on death row


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## PP Mguire (Sep 17, 2009)

As for the GTA4 thing, all the points are moot.

When i DID play that poor excuse for a game i played it on my 940 @ 3.6ghz with a single 280. Ran fine for me, AND had AA with the res set to 1920x1200 and its only a 1gig card. Use Google to find out how i did it. Its not that hard really. 

As for the 5870, meh. Ill wait for GT300. The 5870 didnt impress me.


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## AsRock (Sep 17, 2009)

erocker said:


> Who cares what some company stooge has to say. I hope these cards are good and fast! Competition is needed between the brands. Who wins? Who cares, as long as technology improves and prices keep low. The release of this generation of cards is nothing more than history repeating itself. Of course Nvidia will most likely be launching a card faster than ATI's DX11 cards. Why wouldn't they? History proves they will. Anyways, waiting for benchmarks. I also smell something stinky with two AMD VP's going over to work for Nvidia. You think AMD and Nvidia could be working together? I do. Keep your friends close but your enemies closer.



Yep me too it's all to convenient, and yeah i think nvidia 300 will be faster and nvidia have been nice enough to allow AMD to release there cards first this way both make tons of cash.  Maybe they realize each others problems and made a deal haha.

Either way don't care as long as they do good cards for each year.  And i bet nvidia's even more happier with he prices creeping back up as were going to be back to paying $350+ for a single GPU card.


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## btarunr (Sep 17, 2009)

vagxtr said:


> We allhoped for that steaming performance at 149USD for budget mainstream JuniperXT (RV840). But as clouds says now we'd be happy if we saw it at this price even after nVidia place some new offerings dx10.1 whatever on market. It could be another ripoff at 199USD+ like in RV350 times.



Who knows, that $149 variant (JuniperPro) could live up to that. If it doesn't, choose with your wallet. And I'm fairly sure that nobody in the press was talked to about Redwood/Cedar at lengths. So all that is someone's figment of nvidiotic imagination.


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