# To build, or to buy...



## xanadont (Aug 20, 2009)

Preface:  I've never built a computer before and am incredibly nervous to do so.  Shopping around I've found a nice machine through iBuypower that will cost me about $2300, but I can't help but wonder how much I would save if I put it all together myself.

My biggest concern in building it myself isn't so much the building part -- it all seems rather easy, just plugging certain things in certain places, and the occasional need for a screwdriver.  However, when it comes to what all I need, compatibility, and all that... well, that's where I'm left feeling a little clueless.

Now that I've stumbled across this website, I was hoping some friendly user could throw together a list of the things I'd need for a fairly high-end gaming system, without going over $2k (give or take), similar to the IBP specs (below), or better, but preferably cheaper if possible (otherwise I may as well buy theirs).  Or at the very least some sort of take-me-by-the-hand-and-walk-me-through-it guide for building my own PC.

For anyone interested, here are the details from the IBP machine (to be honest I'm not even sure its all that great, but seemed to be okay):

*Processor* 
Intel® Core™ i7 920 Processor (4x 2.66GHz/8MB L3 Cache)

*Processor Cooling*
Thermaltake V1 CPU Cooling Fan System Kit

*Memory*
6 GB [2 GB X3] DDR3-1333 Triple Memory Module-Corsair XMS3 Dominator w/DHX technology

*Video Card*
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 285 – 1GB-SLI Mode (Dual Cards)

*Video Card Brand*
eVGA Brand Video Cards [SLI enabled] Powered by NVIDIA

*Motherboard* 
EVGA X58 SLI -- Intel X58 Chipset CrossFire and SLI Supported w/7.1 Sound, Triple-Channel DDR3, Gb LAN, S-ATA Raid, USB 2.0, 3-Way SLI PCI-E MB-3-Way SLI

*Power Supply*
800 Watt -- Power Supply-SLI Ready

*Hard Drive* 
500 GB HARD DRIVE-[16M Cache, 7200 RPM, 3.0Gb/s]

*Optical Drive*
22X LG Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive-Black

*Sound Card*
Creative Lab Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio-

*Network Card*
Onboard LAN Network (Gb or 10/100)-

(It also has 22" monitor, Vista, keyboard/mouse, speakers, onboard network card, etc., professional wiring, and warrenty.)


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## BarbaricSoul (Aug 20, 2009)

You can buy all the parts from newegg for about $2000. The specs listed out on the IBP build is a really good build(I'd love to have a I7 rig with those specs).

If you decide to build yourself(I would), we're here to help.


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## r9 (Aug 20, 2009)

Build it. It is cheaper and more fun.


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## InTeL-iNsIdE (Aug 20, 2009)

What brand PSU is it, I'm sceptical as to why they would name all the other parts and not the PSU. 

+1 on building it yourself, surprisingly easy to do, you will save a bit of cash and have the satisfaction of knowing you did it again, we all have to start out somewhere. Maybe you have a friend who could help you in person, other than that there are tons of guys on TPU me included who could give you fool prrof detailed instructions on how to go about it


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## Odin Eidolon (Aug 20, 2009)

build it. you can choose your own stuff (the case you prefer for example) for cheaper. the ibuypower machine seems good, but the cooling fan and the PSU (what brand is it?) dont convince me at all.

for so much money, i'd watercool it. i7s run VERY hot and like to be cooler. you can build your own watercooled machine (just follow the advice lots of people here will be able to give you) or buy a pre-build kit. the only prebuilt kit i would suggest is the swiftech apex ultima.


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## CDdude55 (Aug 20, 2009)

Definitely build its very easy.


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## xanadont (Aug 20, 2009)

Alright, just spent a bit of time on newegg to try and come up with something similar for around $2k.  Here's the list I've got:

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=10730671

If anyone can sub out anything that would bring the price down more, that'd be great.  My biggest reservation right now is that for $300 more I could get the system from IBP and it would include a 3 year warranty, as well as Asetek LCLC liquid cooling.  I don't have any liquid cooling in my wishlist -- mostly because that'd put the price right about where the IBP system is, but also because this is going in a room that, even on the hottest summer day, doesn't get above 62F, so hopefully with enough air cooling, it really shouldn't be an issue (I hope).

As far as the PSU goes in the above specs, I'd actually copied down the wrong one.  It's a 750W Corsair CMPSU-750TX.

Also, I guess I have another question:  as far as gaming goes, is the WD Raptor going to make a huge difference?  I gather it'll help loading times, primarily, but that's about it right?  For the extra $200 I'll probably just stick with it, but I'm not sure I'll notice any huge difference with the mixed reviews out there.

Anyway, I appreciate the feedback everyone is already giving.

Cheers.


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## xanadont (Aug 20, 2009)

This doesn't look too bad either, if I wanted to go with a prebuilt and just upgrade some things.   It could turn out to be a decent deal.  

I would initially want to throw another GTX 285 into it, and it'd be pretty much the same, if the WD Raptor isn't that important.  And it'd only be about $1500 or so.  If it turns out I need to get a different PSU, and add the swiftech liquid cooler mentioned above, that'd still probably be around the $2k range.  It looks like building this from scratch would end up costing more?

Thoughts?

EDIT:  Scratch that.  Apparently it comes with a motherboard that isn't SLI capable.
EDIT 2:  Of course, with a new board and another 285 its still only $1800.   I'm torn.


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## Wrigleyvillain (Aug 20, 2009)

If you *really* want noticeable speed in everyday use from your storage you need to go SSD. If I were you right now I'd probably save $100 and get a 1TB 7200 RPM drive for $85 and go SSD later when more affordable. Then you can use that huge drive for storage and backup. 

That being said I have a 150GB Raptor which is a brand new just back from RMA I'd let go for $100.


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## DRDNA (Aug 20, 2009)

Try beeting these prices.
http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/
you can config your hearts dream here too.


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## A Cheese Danish (Aug 20, 2009)

xanadont said:


> I don't have any liquid cooling in my wishlist -- mostly because that'd put the price right about where the IBP system is, but also because this is going in a room that, even on the hottest summer day, doesn't get above 62F, so hopefully with enough air cooling, it really shouldn't be an issue (I hope).



With a high performance system, your room will more or less heat up a bit whenever you do something very stressful on your rig.

Personally I'd say build your rig because it is rather fun, and usually cheaper.


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## El Fiendo (Aug 20, 2009)

xanadont said:


> http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=10730671



The only reason I'm doing bullet points is to organize my thoughts.

1) Not that PSU. HEC apparently have a bit of a bad rap (I checked with reviews on Google). Either get a PC Power and Cooling 750 or a Corsair TX 750. There are other power supplies that do well but I've found that both of these are good units. Both which can be bought for just a little higher in price, but the value is worth it.

2) I'm not sure of that case. It doesn't look too bad, but I've never seen anything on Enermax cases. I'd be partial to a CM 690 which goes for about $70. The only thing I worry about is slamming an i7 into a case that can't handle the cooling requirements. That doesn't mean you need to grab a Mountain Mods big mother case, but that Enermax only has 1 real exhaust port. 2 if you count the PSU, which you'd be relying on your PSU to exhaust CPU heated air at ~60 degrees. The other thing is intake, which the Chieftec looks like it has very little of aside from the large side fan. 






That front 120mm fan is essentially useless behind all that metal.

3) If you're looking to stretch a bit more value out of your system, I'd recommend changing out the HDD to a WD Black @ ~ 1TB. You get 6.67 times the space trade off for speed. Most times I've seen the Velociraptors used as an OS / App drive with a larger drive for storage of media. 150GB is pretty restrictive, and nowadays can disappear pretty fast which simply means more money spent on storage later. This one is up to you though, you'd know your data usage habits more than me.

4) A GTX 260 or GTX 275 would be alot more bang for your buck, the GTX 260 being the best value / price. If you aren't against ATI, have a look at the 4890 which is roughly equal to the GTX 275. I don't think there is anything out that you'll notice too much of a difference in between any of these cards. The only thing I can think of is high resolution (1920 x 1200) Crysis or other similarly GPU intensive games. If you absolutely need fastest, go GTX 285. Just keep in mind its only a little extra gain for the cost.

5) RAM. You will absolutely need more than 2GB. Hands down, no matter what. 2GB was low for XP machines, and it doesn't matter DDR3 vs DDR2. You can get a good ram kit for fairly cheap. At the very least, grab something like this. 5 dollars more for an extra GB, and you get triple channel. I'd recommend a 6GB kit like this one at the least. This is the second cheapest 6 GB set, and the reason I went with the Crucials over the other set is that the Crucial brand I've heard before, 'Allcomponents' I have not.


Past that I don't have too much experience with the parts. I'm new to i7 so I can't recommend motherboards, however I know EVGA is a pretty damn good brand. I'd recommend changing the PSU and RAM for sure, which the extra price can easily be offset dropping to a GTX 275 from your GTX 285. The PSU will provide much better quality than the originally chosen one will, and you'll notice the performance boost from more RAM long before you'd notice GTX 275 vs GTX 285.


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## rampage (Aug 20, 2009)

DRDNA said:


> Try beeting these prices.
> http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/
> you can config your hearts dream here too.




i see what you mean,  great prices and the best "custom" pc options ive seen at any web site


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## TheLaughingMan (Aug 20, 2009)

*I will start*

First, Cyberpowerpc.com has some great prices.  Seems they are making their money from wholesale prices on parts, so they don't add the +$200 - +$500 "build for me tax" on other sites.

The only complaint I can say about CyberPower is limited choices and it is fun to build it yourself.

I will start:


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## xanadont (Aug 20, 2009)

Looking at CyberPowerPC.com I guess I have another question:

If I go with a custom built, or if I build myself, is overclocking something that is easy to accomplish if you don't know anything about how to do it?  I'm not sure it'd be necessary for me, but the question popped up in my head, so I thought I should ask.


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## xanadont (Aug 20, 2009)

Alright.  I think I'm ready to purchase from newegg and chance building my own box.

Anyone want to look at this and make sure every thing is compatible, worth it, etc.?  Might throw in the recommended swiftech cooling, or I just might wait and see how bad the temperature issues are.

Thanks again, all.


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## El Fiendo (Aug 20, 2009)

That PSU again. In reviews it shows only being capable of putting out around 700w at room temperature. Past that the unit shut down. It also seemed to have poor cooling capacity and very bad power ripple. 

Jonnyguru did a good review of it. I can't think of any good modular supplies in the same price range, however I know the Corsair HX850 is a damn good power supply. Everything else looks like a fair deal.

I don't think that PSU could handle the output for 2 x GTX 285s, due to its poor quality. I know the Corsair HX850 can, however.


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## Delta6326 (Aug 20, 2009)

I would get this WD 640gbit cost less and has 32mb of cache much faster i have the 500gb of this one works great. I have that monitor and i love it!

I don't know if its me but i think with 2 cards other slots maybe blocked from the coolers this making it so you have to put one in the x16 slot and the other may be able to fit in the first pcie x8 if it cant then you may have to get a long sli cable to reach the bottom pcie x8 slot
I read some reviews and i think some people had to put there card at the top and bottom slots not 100% sure tho

http://img.techpowerup.org/090820/645.jpg

http://img.techpowerup.org/090820/519.jpg


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## LittleLizard (Aug 21, 2009)

i would change the mobo for a bloodrage gti but thats my opinion


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## trt740 (Aug 21, 2009)

xanadont said:


> Alright, just spent a bit of time on newegg to try and come up with something similar for around $2k.  Here's the list I've got:
> 
> http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=10730671
> 
> ...






I would build this instead  giving you a much better and 200.00 cheaper rig. *The cpu will be slightly slower but the dual 4890 in crossfire will kill the 285 gtx, plus nicer case , gamer keyboard, extra dvd burner, bigger monitor, bigger hardrive and the best AMD motherboard made will make this a better all around system for the money for $1,629.88. Even The Cosmo case is much better and every part I listed is top notch down to the back lit keyboard*. P.S hardrive cache over 16 mb makes very little difference tell you reach 1tb until then 16 mb is about as fast. There is also a promo code for the power supply taking another 35.00 off the price.  I know it not a single rail but it's still one of the best out there and for 124.00 after the rebate it cannot be beat. Power supply Promo code EMCLWNL39 and it has a 35.00 rebate. 









This adds up to $1,629.88. before subtracting several rebates


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## TheLaughingMan (Aug 21, 2009)

trt740 said:


> I would build this instead giving you a much better and 200.00 cheaper rig. *The cpu will be slightly slower but the dual 4890 in crossfire will kill the 285 gtx, plus nicer case , gamer keyboard, extra dvd burner, bigger monitor, bigger hardrive and the best AMD motherboard made will make this a better all around system for the money for $1,629.88. Even The Cosmo case is much better and every part I listed is top notch down to the back lit keyboard*. P.S hardrive cache over 16 mb makes very little difference tell you reach 1tb until then 16 mb is about as fast. There is also a promo code for the powersupply taking another 35.00 off the price and I know it not a single rail but it's still one of the best out there and for 124.00 after the rebate it cannot be beat. Promo code EMCLWNL39 and it has a 35.00 rebate.
> 
> http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/TemporaryWishList.aspx?BundleExist=N&ChangeQty=0



Your link was to your Temporary wish list, which is powered by cookies on your computer.  As such, the list is empty to everyone else.  And I forgot to add a PSU to my list.  Here

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006


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## Melvis (Aug 21, 2009)

@El Fiendo That computer case looks very similar to mine inside, same lay out and all, interesting.

O and yes Build it for sure, fun, cheaper, and a sense of a accomplishment when you turn it on for the first time 

Only thing id change is the HDD, if you want just a 7200 Seagate 500GB get the ones that have 32mb cache


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## Altered (Aug 21, 2009)

Build it!


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## xanadont (Aug 21, 2009)

trt740 said:


> ...the dual 4890 in crossfire will kill the 285 gtx.



I thought I'd read that two GTX 285 were better off than two 4890s.  If that's not the case, then I'll definitely go with the two 4890s, since its quite a bit cheaper.


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## LittleLizard (Aug 21, 2009)

trt is wrong. 2 gtx 285 will outperform 2 4890 BUT not by much


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## xanadont (Aug 21, 2009)

Okay, _now_ I think I'm all set to order.  I'll hold of a bit and see if anyone chimes in with anything I'm not noticing, but I think its set.  I did swap the HDD out, as well as the PSU for the recommended.  

Oddly enough, the hardest thing for me to settle on was the case, but I think this will do.  Another concern is the bloodrage gti board.  Some reviews seem to say SLI is an issue, others say its not.  Anyone know for sure?

Anyway, my check card is itching to be pulled out of my wallet...


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## xanadont (Aug 21, 2009)

(link)

(sorry, that was supposed to be an edit of the previous message, not a new one.)


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## Kenshai (Aug 21, 2009)

xanadont said:


> Okay, _now_ I think I'm all set to order.  I'll hold of a bit and see if anyone chimes in with anything I'm not noticing, but I think its set.  I did swap the HDD out, as well as the PSU for the recommended.
> 
> Oddly enough, the hardest thing for me to settle on was the case, but I think this will do.  Another concern is the bloodrage gti board.  Some reviews seem to say SLI is an issue, others say its not.  Anyone know for sure?
> 
> Anyway, my check card is itching to be pulled out of my wallet...



Mind if I ask why you're going with SLI or Crossfire? You won't need it with a monitor that is 1920x1080. A single GTX285 can easily handle every game on the market at that resolution with eye candy on(minus poorly coded games like Crysis and it's brethren)

You can always add a second card later if you feel the system isn't powerful enough.


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## El Fiendo (Aug 21, 2009)

Now that looks like a good build. I can't really see anything that should stop you.

By the way, last I remember, the Spedo was reviewed to be a good case.


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## xanadont (Aug 21, 2009)

Mostly because I assumed it would help with more than just resolution (I admittedly don't know a ton about this).

Also, if I go down to one card, should I go up to a 2 gig card, or will that also not matter really?


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## Kenshai (Aug 21, 2009)

xanadont said:


> Mostly because I assumed it would help with more than just resolution (I admittedly don't know a ton about this).
> 
> Also, if I go down to one card, should I go up to a 2 gig card, or will that also not matter really?



It won't really make a difference at your resolution to go with a 1 gig or a 2 gig card. I run 1080p beautifully on my GTX260 216 max in every game I play, excluding Crysis of course. 

Sli and crossfire were really created for the mid to low end cards to equal a single high end card. So people could take steps to getting better performance say buying a 4830/4770 then bumping up to a second one at a later time for similar or better performance than a 4890. 

High end cards can hold their own real well, and sli and crossfire in the high end point is really just for E-peen.


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## xanadont (Aug 21, 2009)

Alright -- dropped the 2nd card.  I'm happy to wait and see if I need it or not, if I probably won't.  

And hit purchase...  so, I guess updates to come when I get it all unpacked and I'm standing, staring clueless as to what I do next.

Thanks again, everyone.


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## LittleLizard (Aug 21, 2009)

good luck with the build. remember: build your own pc is like building a lego. A damn expensive one.


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## xanadont (Aug 21, 2009)

Alright -- dropped the 2nd card.  I'm happy to wait and see if I need it or not, if I probably won't.  

And hit purchase...  so, I guess updates to come when I get it all unpacked and I'm standing, staring clueless as to what I do next.

Thanks again, everyone.


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## trt740 (Aug 21, 2009)

xanadont said:


> I thought I'd read that two GTX 285 were better off than two 4890s.  If that's not the case, then I'll definitely go with the two 4890s, since its quite a bit cheaper.





LittleLizard said:


> trt is wrong. 2 gtx 285 will outperform 2 4890 BUT not by much



I never said two 4890 would beat two 285 gtx what I said was two 4890,s in crossfire would beat a single 285 gtx to death( he only showed one in his system he built) I then was trying to imply that  by buying a AMD cpu and AMD motherboard you could use that money to offset the price of the second 4890, yet still get  more performance and save yourself some money. Two 4890 would give similar performance to a single 295 gtx.


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## trt740 (Aug 21, 2009)

xanadont said:


> (link)
> 
> (sorry, that was supposed to be an edit of the previous message, not a new one.)





Kenshai said:


> Mind if I ask why you're going with SLI or Crossfire? You won't need it with a monitor that is 1920x1080. A single GTX285 can easily handle every game on the market at that resolution with eye candy on(minus poorly coded games like Crysis and it's brethren)
> 
> You can always add a second card later if you feel the system isn't powerful enough.





xanadont said:


> Mostly because I assumed it would help with more than just resolution (I admittedly don't know a ton about this).
> 
> Also, if I go down to one card, should I go up to a 2 gig card, or will that also not matter really?





Why not two of these Sapphire Vapor-X 4870's in Crossfire. They are faster than a single 285 gtx  and when overclocked will get close to stock 4890's speeds. Also at
298.00 they are 26.00 cheaper. They would be slightly faster than a 4870x2 and therefore faster than a 285gtx. Plus they have very good none reference coolers.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102825


Also why not this case it is better than what you have and has won about every award there is.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119138


Last of all do yourself a favor and buy a modular power supply. It will make your build that much easier. Example would be this one http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=102074 124.99 after a rebate and promo code. It is not a single rail PSU but it's very very good and stable as hell. It is also 87 percent efficient and has power rating of
Four +12V rails  (combined loading of 62A)


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## LittleLizard (Aug 21, 2009)

he already stated that he will go with only one gtx 285 due the resolution he will play and if he needs more, he will buy a second one.



trt740 said:


> I never said two 4890 would beat two 285 gtx what I said was two 4890,s in crossfire would beat a single 285 gtx to death( he only showed one in his system he built) I then was trying to imply that  by buying a AMD cpu and AMD motherboard you could use that money to offset the price of the second 4890, yet still get  more performance and save yourself some money. Two 4890 would give similar performance to a single 295 gtx.



thx for the explanation


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## trt740 (Aug 21, 2009)

LittleLizard said:


> he already stated that he will go with only one gtx 285 due the resolution he will play and if he needs more, he will buy a second one.
> 
> 
> 
> thx for the explanation



Why buy  a one card set up when you can buy two cards, have faster game play and save money?


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## El Fiendo (Aug 21, 2009)

Considering this is a first build, it might be better if he applied the KISS rule. Less things to go wrong = all the better.


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## trt740 (Aug 21, 2009)

El Fiendo said:


> Considering this is a first build, it might be better if he applied the KISS rule. Less things to go wrong = all the better.



No sure those crossfire drivers are mature as hell and are the same drivers as the 4870 x2 uses? Not much to go wrong there.


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## LittleLizard (Aug 21, 2009)

I think he already ordered.


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## trt740 (Aug 21, 2009)

LittleLizard said:


> I think he already ordered.



Maybe he has but the case he ordered would not have been my first choice at all. The rest is okay but for a first time build buying a modular power supply would be easier and that cosmo is giant and easy to install components in. This case is also very very cool

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133080

damn keyboard is sticking


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## xanadont (Aug 25, 2009)

I did order before those posts.  And it's due to arrive sometime today--or, most of it is, anyway.  I'll probably follow this guide from PCMech, unless anyone knows of a better guide out there.  (Maybe someone has written one on the forums here and I just didn't see it?)

I'll let you all know if it blows up when I turn it on.


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## LittleLizard (Aug 25, 2009)

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=58149


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## Kenshai (Aug 25, 2009)

trt740 said:


> Why buy  a one card set up when you can buy two cards, have faster game play and save money?



First of all, a single card set-up will allow him to upgrade later with a second card if he pleases. Seems a reasonable answer there. 



trt740 said:


> No sure those crossfire drivers are mature as hell and are the same drivers as the 4870 x2 uses? Not much to go wrong there.



People still have issues with crossfire not working correctly, some get lucky others don't. A 4870x2 is a single card a lot less can go wrong on that than two separate 4870's. 



trt740 said:


> Maybe he has but the case he ordered would not have been my first choice at all. The rest is okay but for a first time build buying a modular power supply would be easier and that cosmo is giant and easy to install components in. This case is also very very cool
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133080
> 
> damn keyboard is sticking



Cases are very personal for some people. To some people I'll suggest a set of cases, some people don't like them. It's ultimately their decision on every part of the system, I understand where you're coming from though. The case doesn't have bad reviews, I don't see that anything bad will come of his choice of case.


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## AltecV1 (Aug 25, 2009)

buy it!,you know you want to


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## Kenshai (Aug 25, 2009)

OP did you forget a cpu cooler? You had it in your first post, but nothing in the Newegg list.


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## trt740 (Aug 25, 2009)

Kenshai said:


> First of all, a single card set-up will allow him to upgrade later with a second card if he pleases. Seems a reasonable answer there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



gotta ya spend more and get less makes sense to me...  still very nice build.


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## xanadont (Aug 26, 2009)

Good news -- no sparks are flying nor clouds of smoke pouring out!  Vista is installing atm, and everything seems to be going well...

/knock on wood.


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## Kenshai (Aug 26, 2009)

xanadont said:


> Good news -- no sparks are flying nor clouds of smoke pouring out!  Vista is installing atm, and everything seems to be going well...
> 
> /knock on wood.



Sounds great, keep us updated!


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## xanadont (Aug 26, 2009)

Aside from a slight problem with a couple USB ports not working everything is good! Guess I was scared of building for no good reason -- it really is like an expensive Lego set. Or I got lucky. Either way, I'm thrilled with it.


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## Kenshai (Aug 26, 2009)

xanadont said:


> Aside from a slight problem with a couple USB ports not working everything is good! Guess I was scared of building for no good reason -- it really is like an expensive Lego set. Or I got lucky. Either way, I'm thrilled with it.



That's great, play some games on it and let us know how it does. Stock settings first


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## TheLaughingMan (Aug 26, 2009)

Which USB ports are not working?  Are they on the back panel or somewhere on your case or front area?


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## xanadont (Aug 26, 2009)

They're on the front.  The connectors coming from them seem to be lacking a pair of pins (or whatever the correct terminology is).  The motherboard (bloodrage gti) has a place to connect them, but it appears to be a set of four paired pins, and the connector coming from the front USB ports (they seem to be paired--there are two ports and only one wire, like a USB Hub might be wired?) have three places for pins.

If that makes any sense...

I scouted around the board for anywhere that looked like it might connect to it, but I couldn't see anything.  I'm not too worried, since if it acts like a hub anyway, I've got a built in hub on my desk that is more convenient to use than those top USBs are.


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## El Fiendo (Aug 26, 2009)

USB headers have 9 pins, the place for the 10th pin is blocked out. 






I believe this is standard to all boards, though I could be wrong. If I'm not mistaken, 2 ports can run off 1 header, so only 1 cable is needed to operate both ports. 

Pin layout:





I attached this last pic to help show what the plug looks like and where the wiring is. If the plug is different then we might have to get more creative to make it work. (Pretty sure the 'should be' diagram is the correct one)


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## TheLaughingMan (Aug 27, 2009)

Just be care to make sure the header says USB.  The Firewire has the same pin layout, but should be colored differently.  So check the board for the "USB" label or the manual to make sure you didn't plug it into something else.

But if they aren't a big deal, ignore it.


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