# AMD Announces 4th Generation A-Series "Kaveri" Desktop APUs



## btarunr (Jan 14, 2014)

AMD announced its 2014 A-Series APU for the desktop platform, code-named "Kaveri," after the southern-Indian river. Built in the new FM2+ package, the APUs run only on socket FM2+ motherboards based on the AMD A88X, A78, and A55 chipsets; while the socket itself can seat older FM2 APU families, "Trinity" and "Richland." In many ways, the socket transition is similar to that of socket AM3+. "Kaveri" sees AMD integrate two of its newest CPU and GPU micro-architectures, "Steamroller" for CPU, and Graphics CoreNext 2.0 for the GPU. "Kaveri" is also built on newer generation 28 nm silicon fab process.

"Steamroller" is an evolution of the same modular CPU core design as its predecessors, "Piledriver" and "Bulldozer." AMD promises a 10 percent improvement in performance clock-by-clock, per core, which falls in line with AMD's normal scheme of annual incremental performance updates on its CPU micro-architectures. A "Steamroller" module is a combination of two 64-bit x86 cores, which feature dedicated and shared components. "Kaveri" has two such modules, and so physically, it features a quad-core CPU.



 

 




The GPU inside A-Series "Kaveri" APUs is the fastest AMD ever crammed into a PC APU, although it doesn't come close to the APUs that drive Xbox One and PlayStation 4. Based on the Graphics CoreNext 2.0 micro-architecture, "Kaveri" features eight GCN compute units (CUs), which make up 512 stream processors, and 32 TMUs. The GPU supports DirectX 11.2, OpenGL 4.3, and Mantle. The GPU component also accelerates AMD's TrueAudio technology, which debuted with the Radeon R9 290 series. The GPU's display I/O lets you drive Ultra HD (3840 x 2160 pixels) displays with 60 Hz refresh rates, over DisplayPort 1.2. It supports up to four display outputs.

Moving on to the uncore portion of "Kaveri," AMD deployed a new-generation integrated memory controller (IMC). It supports up to 64 GB of dual-channel DDR3-2400 MHz memory. Its biggest feature id hUMA (heterogeneous unified memory access), which not only chucks out fixed memory partitions between the system and shared graphics memory area, but also makes the CPU and GPU access the same memory simultaneously. This should translate to greater system memory available to the OS (as "hardware reserved" GPU memory is eliminated), and better GPGPU performance. The second big highlight in the uncore department is the PCI-Express root complex, which now gives out up to 24 lanes of PCI-Express gen 3.0. This should translate into better CrossFire performance, in which a pair of graphics cards are given an 8-lane PCI-Express link, each.

AMD launched its 2014 A-Series APU family with three models, the A10-7850K, the A10-7700K, and the A8-7600. Specifications of the three parts are tabled below. The A10-7850K and A10-7700K will include Origin keys to Battlefield 4, and the two chips apparently meet the minimum system requirements of the game.





*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## ZetZet (Jan 14, 2014)

Can't find any reviews yet


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## RCoon (Jan 14, 2014)

ZetZet said:


> Can't find any reviews yet


 
Well it hasn't been released here yet, OCUK are usually the first to get AMD gear in stock. Paper launch? Also If it's anything like Richland's release, the NDA will be absolutely and completely retarded. I wouldn't expect reviews for a few days/a week. I also wouldn't get your hopes up!


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## john_ (Jan 14, 2014)

7600 is a really nice choice for anyone looking for a cheap desktop. 7850 and 7700 are a little expensive and in Intel territory, but I am sure they will get in many pre built PCs and especially slim All in One all PCs or tiny boxes with no room for a discrete card.
Now if only we could get a Steamroller CPU(no graphics) on FM2+ and why not, maybe with more than 2 modules.


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## megamanxtreme (Jan 14, 2014)

ZetZet said:


> Can't find any reviews yet


There was one yesterday.
http://foro.noticias3d.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=421821


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## NC37 (Jan 14, 2014)

So same weak dual core acting as a quad core design and now with GPU cores posing as CPU cores? Well, I'll be interested in seeing how it does with handbrake encodes. But I guess if you can't pack them in, you gotta figure out another way to add more. Still no L3 though.

Funny to think we've come full circle. From the GPU makers developing the 3D drivers/etc to just the OS devs handling it. Now AMD is back to it with Mantle. Wonder how long till nVidia does the same. Course if it means M$ won't hold a monopoly over drivers and force people to update to new Windows to get new DX capabilities then that is good. Time will tell.


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## ZetZet (Jan 14, 2014)

I just don't understand why they don't shrink old phenom to 28nm and go with it, phenoms already performed quite well, better than these module type designs atleast.


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## john_ (Jan 14, 2014)

NC37 said:


> Wonder how long till nVidia does the same.



If Maxwell is a strong chip, Nvidia doesn't have to follow AMD in creating it's own API, only give a better DirectX performance at the same price points. If for example in a year from now AMD is winning with 20% in some titles because of Mantle and Nvidia is winning by 10% in all other titles that wouldn't support Mantle, things wouldn't be much different than today, just much more complicated(or simple depending how you see it) when you are buying a new graphics card.


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## RCoon (Jan 14, 2014)

ZetZet said:


> I just don't understand why they don't shrink old phenom to 28nm and go with it, phenoms already performed quite well, better than these module type designs atleast.


 
I wholeheartedly agree, but perhaps Deneb and Thuban aren't that scalable. It all sounds good to us, but it depends on how effectively the Phenom architectures scale down. I'd take a genuine dual, quad or hex core from AMD derived from the Phenom days. I still have a 1055T laying around here somewhere. I also have an FM2 750K processor sat on the shelf, which will never be used for anything ever again.


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## buildzoid (Jan 14, 2014)

ZetZet said:


> I just don't understand why they don't shrink old phenom to 28nm and go with it, phenoms already performed quite well, better than these module type designs atleast.


Only in multi core scenarios because what AMD bulldozer design does wrong is that it doesn't have per core scaling. If only one core is used the core will get 1.23 in Cinbench but the moment you have 2 cores in one module working they only got 1.7 points because of them sharing cache and other resources. If AMD made a quad core that had one core in each module disabled it would give 1.23x4 but they make quad cores by disabling entire modules so you end up with 1.23x2.5. So a Phenom II is basically the same in single core performance and has an advantage when in come to multi threading scaling but this is solved by AMD simply having more cores than before.


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## Kärlekstrollet (Jan 14, 2014)

ZetZet said:


> I just don't understand why they don't shrink old phenom to 28nm and go with it, phenoms already performed quite well, better than these module type designs atleast.



Phenom reached its peak after many years of improving the same core(K* architecture) so if AMD kept using K* today the gap between Intel would have just been bigger.

AMD should've started the Bulldozer project 2 years earlier but there is no time machine in sight yet.


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## bogami (Jan 14, 2014)

New but only 28nm. GPU standard for current GPU units, it seems that better is not in AMD. Regardless of the forecast do not expect anything better than to before .3 gene. GPU support is not on the current motherboards. only a single ASUS model has the support and here I do not know if it is aligned with the new processor and the ability of 856 GFLOP we have the best model is only less than 1/6 of Haiti GPU 5.9TFLOP so play crysis 3 with pleasure is off. In order to obtain a solid results from the CPU was required frequency as 3.7-4 Gh. What will AMD do when the 14 nm Hasvell in 6 months appeared. Can just pack their suitcases or is some ace under the sleeve !


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## csgabe (Jan 14, 2014)

They can be bought here in Romania already, but they are expensive:
A7700K ~155 Euro:
A7850K ~177 Euro:
http://www.pcgarage.ro/procesoare/amd/kaveri-a10-x4-7700k-black-edition-35ghz-box/
http://www.emag.ro/procesor-amd-kaveri-a10-7700k-3400mhz-socket-fm2-box-ad770kxbjabox/pd/DMYLSBBBM/
http://www.emag.ro/procesor-amd-kaveri-a10-7850k-3700mhz-socket-fm2-box-ad785kxbjabox/pd/DBYLSBBBM/


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## ZetZet (Jan 14, 2014)

buildzoid said:


> Only in multi core scenarios because what AMD bulldozer design does wrong is that it doesn't have per core scaling. If only one core is used the core will get 1.23 in Cinbench but the moment you have 2 cores in one module working they only got 1.7 points because of them sharing cache and other resources. If AMD made a quad core that had one core in each module disabled it would give 1.23x4 but they make quad cores by disabling entire modules so you end up with 1.23x2.5. So a Phenom II is basically the same in single core performance and has an advantage when in come to multi threading scaling but this is solved by AMD simply having more cores than before.


But that's the thing, they don't have more cores, only fx-83xx have more cores and are viable, while fx-6300 is used for budget gaming and Fx-4xxx and apu's are trash.
Phenom's had 6 real cores and did fine with that.


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## Mathragh (Jan 14, 2014)

I'm wondering why the rest of the internet is totally quiet regarding this launch. Anyone with a link to another site posting similar news/reviews?
Or is it still too early.


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## john_ (Jan 14, 2014)

RCoon said:


> I also have an FM2 750K processor sat on the shelf, which will never be used for anything ever again.



That bad?


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## ZetZet (Jan 14, 2014)

john_ said:


> That bad?


Cheaper i3 and I don't know why would anyone buy something less than i5.


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## john_ (Jan 14, 2014)

ZetZet said:


> Cheaper i3 and I don't know why would anyone buy something less than i5.



750K is way cheaper than i3. Add to that that you can have a motherboard with about everything on it at much better prices than any Intel board and you have your answer.


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## kn00tcn (Jan 14, 2014)

Kärlekstrollet said:


> AMD should've started the Bulldozer project 2 years earlier but there is no time machine in sight yet.



wasnt it 2 years late already?  they probably started on time, just didnt finish

has gloflo even been ready for mass large high end 28nm?


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## buildzoid (Jan 14, 2014)

ZetZet said:


> But that's the thing, they don't have more cores, only fx-83xx have more cores and are viable, while fx-6300 is used for budget gaming and Fx-4xxx and apu's are trash.
> Phenom's had 6 real cores and did fine with that.


Yes but a Phenom IIs single threaded performance at 4.1Ghz is barely on par with the single core performance of a stock A10 6800K and the A10 7850K is even faster and if they improved the resource sharing system the A10 7850K and it's Athlon spinoff will be absolutely perfect for budget gaming.


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## RCoon (Jan 14, 2014)

john_ said:


> That bad?


 
Not at all, I had a 750K overclocked to 4.4Ghz on my current rig with a 780. I could play any game I wanted with no trouble on 1440p. But I do a great deal of parsing, RARing and encoding on some evenings, so when the A85X motherboard broke, I switched to an i5.

I laugh at people hating on these little things, because they've never used them. Played BF3 and all those games on a 750K, and when paired with a high end GPU, I could eat games alive on 1440p. Guess people just don't know what they're talking about...

EDIT: Granted I don't recommend these to anyone playing Total War though!


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## darkangel0504 (Jan 14, 2014)

Power consumption


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## RCoon (Jan 14, 2014)

darkangel0504 said:


> Power consumption


 
What's with the comparison without Richland? That was a minor improvement upon the old 5800K, so that benchmark seems a little poorly thought out.
Nice to see improvements in power consumption though...


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## west7 (Jan 14, 2014)

i think this new apu is great deal for everyone dont wont to spend a 1000$ on pc especially those ho lives outside the US like me with prices of pc parts is to expensive i rather buy an apu then spending alot more for cpu+gfx crd combo for the same money


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## Roph (Jan 14, 2014)

Now delete the weak GPU from the chip, fill the empty space with more steamroller cores, and package it for AM3+ please.


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## Mathragh (Jan 14, 2014)

Reviews are out


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## de.das.dude (Jan 14, 2014)

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/amd-a10-7850-flank3r-preview-with-asus-a88x-pro.196850/


ZetZet said:


> Can't find any reviews yet


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## Fluffmeister (Jan 14, 2014)

AnandTech Review

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7677/amd-kaveri-review-a8-7600-a10-7850k


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## Dent1 (Jan 14, 2014)

Extreme Tech Review:

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...he-wait-for-the-first-true-heterogeneous-chip


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## BiggieShady (Jan 14, 2014)

I don't get why they add together CPU cores and GPU GCN cores to come up with number 12, just to point out later how much different x86 and GCN cores really are. That number is not even a good measure for parallelism of the APU because GCN is architecture made for parallel tasks and x86 is not. Adding apples and oranges here.


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## RCoon (Jan 14, 2014)

I've got to say, I'm a little disappointed that the TPU review for these isn't up yet. Kinda expected them to be on the same timeline as Anandtech at least.


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## Ikaruga (Jan 14, 2014)

I respect and appreciate what AMD is doing with their APUs (because APUs are the future indeed), but they still going really bad with the pricing imho.  You can get a dedicated GPU (let's say a R7 240 GDDR5) and an i3 for this kind of money, a config which will ask for less power and do more on most of the tasks the average user might use. They should drop it below $150 asap I think, that would be a different and also a much happier story.


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## BiggieShady (Jan 14, 2014)

Kaveri seems great for steam machine without discrete GPU.


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## ZetZet (Jan 14, 2014)

BiggieShady said:


> Kaveri seems great for steam machine without discrete GPU.


I think x4 750k + 7770 is still better for steam machine.


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## Dent1 (Jan 14, 2014)

Ikaruga said:


> I respect and appreciate what AMD is doing with their APUs (because APUs are the future indeed), but they still going really bad with the pricing imho.  You can get a dedicated GPU (let's say a R7 240 GDDR5) and an i3 for this kind of money, a config which will ask for less power and do more on most of the tasks the average user might use. They should drop it below $150 asap I think, that would be a different and also a much happier story.



The pricing is fine. The Hawell i3 alone starts from $130 ish

You may be able to get a sandy or ivy bridge i3 CPU for sub $70, but its going to get neutralised in non-gaming tasks due to being a dual core.

Even if you slap a dedicated R7 240 on the i3 its still going to get spanked in gaming because the integrated GPU on the Kaveri is faster (512  stream cores vs 320 stream cores, no slow PCI bus).

So yes you can spend a get an outdated i3 and a dedicated R7 240, but the overall experience will still be a slower rig.

P.S. The pricing will settle in a few weeks. On launch days prices always balloon.


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## Frick (Jan 14, 2014)

Ikaruga said:


> I respect and appreciate what AMD is doing with their APUs (because APUs are the future indeed), but they still going really bad with the pricing imho.  You can get a dedicated GPU (let's say a R7 240 GDDR5) and an i3 for this kind of money, a config which will ask for less power and do more on most of the tasks the average user might use. They should drop it below $150 asap I think, that would be a different and also a much happier story.



They were released like just now. The pricing will stabilize. The only place that has them here lists the A10 7850K at €170, which is... Sort of expensive. The cheapest Haswell i3 is less than €110. But that is from the only store that has them listed. We'll see what happens in the coming weeks, but I have the feeling they won't drop that much...







That's something that hints on the potential of HSA.

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...-wait-for-the-first-true-heterogeneous-chip/5


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## etayorius (Jan 14, 2014)

Kaveri is Bulldozer 2.0 "Reloaded", same crap AMD pulled with Zambezi, better MultiCore but worst SingleCore compared to previous gen, this is Bulldozer all over again.

On the GPU side and energy consumption is looking Great though.


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## WhiteLotus (Jan 14, 2014)

Frick said:


> They were released like just now. The pricing will stabilize. The only place that has them here lists the A10 7850K at €170, which is... Sort of expensive. The cheapest Haswell i3 is less than €110. But that is from the only store that has them listed. We'll see what happens in the coming weeks, but I have the feeling they won't drop that much...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


HSA?


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## Crap Daddy (Jan 14, 2014)

Same story, this time more expensive. They keep pointing at advantages of things that exist only in labs as mantle and hsa. The only true selling point is laptop grade gaming on desktop if anyone is interested. Otherwise for a little more there are far better alternatives.


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## Frick (Jan 14, 2014)

WhiteLotus said:


> HSA?



Formerly known as AMD Fusion. Have a read, I'm still wrapping my head around it. It boils down, I think more or less, to the CPU and GPU sharing resources. Intimately.



Crap Daddy said:


> Same story, this time more expensive. They keep pointing at advantages of things that exist only in labs as mantle and hsa. The only true selling point is laptop grade gaming on desktop if anyone is interested. Otherwise for a little more there are far better alternatives.



The problem is, as others have pointed out, execution. Both Mantle and HSA probably have great potential. They just have to be used. "Just".


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## WhiteLotus (Jan 14, 2014)

Cheers for that.  I think an APU are great for small light gaming here and there, and that is where I am going so I have kept an interest in Kaveri for some time now. 
Now its out I'll wait for a month or two for the price to settle down and maybe for some new mother boards to arrive that have some better chipsets/layouts. Then I can have a PS4 for gaming and a PC for general stuff for games the PS4 won't have (mostly strategy games, that let's be honest aren't the most graphically demanding games on the planet).


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## Crap Daddy (Jan 14, 2014)

> Then I can have a PS4 for gaming and a PC for general stuff for games the PS4 won't have (mostly strategy games, that let's be honest aren't the most graphically demanding games on the planet).



For DOTA sure, for Rome 2 Total War nope.  But I see you have a 6850, why not reuse it with a Haswell i3 or even an FX 8320. Much much better deal than this Kaveri.


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## Dent1 (Jan 15, 2014)

etayorius said:


> Kaveri is Bulldozer 2.0 "Reloaded", same crap AMD pulled with Zambezi, better MultiCore but worst SingleCore compared to previous gen, this is Bulldozer all over again.
> 
> On the GPU side and energy consumption is looking Great though.



Actually, if you bothered reading any of the literature, Kaveri actually improves single threading performance whilst hindering improvement to multi core performance to almost the same degree.



------------------


Edit: Off topic:

For anyone interested in battlefield 4  and games in general performance on Kaveri, they perform like a beast!!!! Keep in mind this is only the A8-7600, I'm sure the A10-7850k performs even better in games!

Higher is better:




Lower is better:





Lower is better:





Higher is better:




Lower is better:





Lower is better







Higher is better:





Lower is better:






Lower is better:






More reviews:
http://techreport.com/review/25908/amd-a8-7600-kaveri-processor-reviewed
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2014/01/14/amd-a8-7600-kaveri-review/1


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## xorbe (Jan 15, 2014)

The 7600 at 45/65w looks really interesting for mini itx systems.

Seems like oc'ing was off limits for every 7850k launch day review.

And when are these actually going on sale?  They are nowhere.


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## HalfAHertz (Jan 15, 2014)

For some reason nobody did any temp and wattage measurements in their reviews other than bit tech...and it looks bad. The 7600 is way off the 45/65W mark compared to the intel systems.


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## bencrutz (Jan 15, 2014)

HalfAHertz said:


> For some reason nobody did any temp and wattage measurements in their reviews other than bit tech...and it looks bad. The 7600 is way off the 45/65W mark compared to the intel systems.



45W 7600 maxed out at 90Watts (CPU + GPU loaded) compared to a 54W 4330 that took 84Watts

i'd say it's an impressive improvement over richland. while it's 6 Watts more compared to intel's i3 4330 higer tdp, you do realize that intel always have an advantage on the lithography process over amd and the a8 have a beefier iGPU....


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## Melvis (Jan 15, 2014)

HalfAHertz said:


> For some reason nobody did any temp and wattage measurements in their reviews other than bit tech...and it looks bad. The 7600 is way off the 45/65W mark compared to the intel systems.



I dont think another 6 watts is that bad compared to the intel i3 really. Also considering the GPU on the APU is twice as powerful makes it look really good I think.\

LOL what he said^

Got Ninjaed


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## HalfAHertz (Jan 15, 2014)

bencrutz said:


> 45W 7600 maxed out at 90Watts (CPU + GPU loaded) compared to a 54W 4330 that took 84Watts
> 
> i'd say it's an impressive improvement over richland. while it's 6 Watts more compared to intel's i3 4330 higer tdp, you do realize that intel always have an advantage on the lithography process over amd and the a8 have a beefier iGPU....



So if we have to equalize it compared to the i3, the 7600's power usage in "45W mode" is closer to 60W.


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## Fourstaff (Jan 15, 2014)

bencrutz said:


> 45W 7600 maxed out at 90Watts (CPU + GPU loaded) compared to a 54W 4330 that took 84Watts
> 
> i'd say it's an impressive improvement over richland. while it's 6 Watts more compared to intel's i3 4330 higer tdp, you do realize that intel always have an advantage on the lithography process over amd and the a8 have a beefier iGPU....



Definitely impressive, but I think they shouldn't have such a conservative estimate since people who build using a pico ITX with 90w PSU will suffer greatly when a big load comes in and fries the PSU.


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## Fairlady-z (Jan 15, 2014)

What is the fastest GPU that you could crossfire with the A10-7850? Is it a 7850gpu? I am thinking of maybe playing around with building a steam box system or a smaller gaming rig.


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## bencrutz (Jan 16, 2014)

HalfAHertz said:


> So if we have to equalize it compared to the i3, the 7600's power usage in "45W mode" is closer to 60W.


i guess so, if you are referring to consumed power.
TDP is thermal design power, mind you, the amount of heat generated that should be handled by the cooling system 



Fourstaff said:


> Definitely impressive, but I think they shouldn't have such a conservative estimate since people who build using a pico ITX with 90w PSU will suffer greatly when a big load comes in and fries the PSU.


well, again, it's the TDP, but yeah i see your point.


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