# Batman Returns



## E-curbi (Aug 2, 2019)

NEVER


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## yotano211 (Aug 2, 2019)

I AM BATMAN!!!!


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## E-curbi (Aug 16, 2019)

yotano211 said:


> I AM BATMAN!!!!



Now you know, there's not room enough for two Batmans in Gotham City!  

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Grabbed some new memory sticks for the Batman build, they is insane. 

The highest speed on EVGA's Z390 DARK QVL list 4600Mhz CL18. *Memory kits do not perform on a linear scale with dollars spent.* Not even close, that graph of performance/dollars is so freaking exponential man, and not to mention totally unfair imho. 

Planned to just grab the 4400Mhz C18 kit buuuuut after speaking with a few super ddr4 memory enthusiasts, those super memory gents that spend 80+ hours tweaking their 2ndary and tertiary timings to perfection, they convinced me if I pay another $100 oh geez,  I'd have a better overall chance at the highest speed/tightest primary timings so reluctantly I went for the Gskill F4-4600C18D-16GTRS dual kit.

I was completely satisfied with my 3200/14 TZ kit and waiting for ddr5 or optane memory next year, but then I plugged into a free Z390 Dark OC Daily LUUMI Bios Preset that pushed my 3200/14 Gskill Samsung B-die kit to 4300Mhz 17CL and IT FELT AMAZING!  , yet wasn't so stable...

I was suddenly so hooked on memory overclocking after 7years into the hobby and only using simple XMP 2.0.

Still tweaking with primary timings so far my favorite profile is 4400Mhz 17-17-17-34. The 4600Mhz 18-22-22-42 XMP 2.0 does post just fine, but does not feel as responsive. Have not even tried the entire 4500Mhz range OR the 4000Mhz super-low latency range so lots more yet to discover. 

That's the only upgrade since January, although the Seasonic TX-700watt fanless announced at Computex is planned to launch this month August 2019, so there's that to look forward to. Will pick one up from Newegg.

___________

Some bad news, the Z390 Dark had some terrible issues, very weird intermittent behaviors and unexplained electrical phenomenon, actually had to get on the phone with EVGA and troubleshoot-RMA the board, my first time sending a motherboard back - 7years into the hobby. 

The 2nd replacement Z390 Dark has been perfect, not a single hiccup, flawless activity, although the Z390 Dark boards really behave very strangely compared to the ROG boards, you just hold your breath a few times hoping the board is not DEAD and eventually after all the double memory training triple reboots, the board comes back to life - the boards, even when 100% healthy will simply "Go Dark" for 3-4, 5 full minutes, only a single white LED still lit up *that will not power off* even if you switch off the PSU, even if you unplug the pwr from the wall, it's absolutely unnerving man, this board is possessed.

Then the Z390 Dark finally powers off completely then boots normally into bios and a message appears on the main screen that says:

Why you sweating so much? I was just messin' with you man.

signed,

your dark friend


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## Space Lynx (Aug 16, 2019)

I can always tell a Noctua heatsink's metal from other heatsinks.    That is a good thing, LONG LIVE NOCTUA!!!


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## E-curbi (Aug 16, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> I can always tell a Noctua heatsink's metal from other heatsinks.    That is a good thing, LONG LIVE NOCTUA!!!



I agree. 100% 

I started way back in 2012 with a Noctua U12 single tower cooler, then a dual tower NH-D14 > Corsair H100 > Corsair H100i > (4) custom water loops using EK, AquaComputer, Monsoon, Bitspower Hardware Labs (with a Noctua NH-D15 for testing prior to completing the loops) then returned back to an NH-C14S for this build, worked so well I disassembled my last water loop of 2016 to 2018 last year and grabbed a 2nd NH-C14S. lol

Nothing short of astonishment, the cooling performance of the C14S. Reviews place it about 2C higher at load that the very bulky NH-D15. I had the D15, yet for this Batman open air build using no case fans at all for VRM memory chipset cooling, I really love the downfiring C14S's ability to also push at least a little air onto and over those components. Even a small flow of air makes a HUGE difference vs no air at all.

Some of my thermals recorded at full 100% load all 6cores at 5.5Ghz peaking out at 65C 67C a single core recording at 72C, I'm absolutely hooked on Noctua coolers especially the single tower single bank of fins on the C14S. I've tried to consider maybe the extremely long length of the phase change tubes, longer than any other Noctua sku might contribute to it's amazing thermal efficiency, but honestly I just don't know. For $74, the C14S is really an amazing value, imho.

Although I did swap out the maroon and beige stock 140mm fan in the box and replaced with a Noctua 140mm PWM Industrial which was close to $30 with tax, ouch. And that fan arrived with the dark brown corner noise absorption pads and swapped those out for the all black corner pads around $7.99 for (16) of them, enough for (2) fans. So yea total cost of the CPU cooling solution was closer to $115, but the Aquaero 6 really loves the Noctua Industrial black PWM fans, allowing almost infinite adjustability.

I never could get the Corsair H100 and H100i to go completely inaudible, the pump noise and vibration, that low frequency hum I could not isolate, even tried placing rubber o-rings at the base of my motherboard standoffs (most likely not electrically very wise) lol, that darn AIO hum drove me crazy. Did reach inaudibility with (4) the custom loops isolating the pumps with Sorbothane and the fans using various silicon pull-through mounts, and fans of light to medium total mass. Overall, I'd say the Noctua NH-C14S cooler with a 140mm fan attached using only a simple gravity mount is the simplest and easiest cooling subassembly to move into the inaudible range, by far.

So Go Noctua!

I have tried the newer Noctua thermal paste, the NT-H2 and found it runny, difficult to apply, and my thermals were horrendous. Maybe it was just me, but after 4 mountings on my 2ndary rig, I just gave up and went back to the NT-H1 paste, which I get amazing results with the "in line with die" application method.


This pic below is the Noctua NT-H1 paste "In line with die" application, then I add separate (4) dots of Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut (1) dot about 10mm from each corner and that's it.

My secret sauce. 

Now the secret is out and everyone is going to have amazing thermals, just kidding. 

Love it or hate it, right or wrong, I get solid thermal results at high clocks using this crazy off beat wacky eccentric mix of (2) thermal pastes from different manufacturers. lol


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## E-curbi (Aug 16, 2019)

_"Don't laugh too hard at my build, it's an open air test bench with a horizontally mounted motherboard, rolling around on four wheels and five radiators that don't actually do anything. lololol_ "


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## E-curbi (Aug 17, 2019)

Also, anyone waiting for the Seasonic 700watt fanless to launch,









						Seasonic Pushes the Fanless Envelope to 700W, Including 80 Plus Titanium
					

Each year we look forward to the next big fanless PSU. Seasonic did not disappoint this year, with the new Prime Fanless TX-700. This replaces the Prime Titanium Fanless 600W as the company's most powerful PSU of its kind. Its connectivity is updated to include two 4+4 pin EPS connectors, up to...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




The titanium certification was posted only 48hrs ago at plugloadsolutions.com. So availability should be within the next 2-3weeks. 



			https://clearesult5.sharepoint.com/:b:/s/PLS/EfdiTYTNRHJFvSkqWY2HJZUBaP7h43WCJfqFoP377TIJhA?e=UZ2CSa
		


When the Prime Titanium 600watt fanless launched back in October 2017, Superbiiz.com had stock 3.5weeks before Newegg, Amazon etc, so I took a chance and ordered from Superbiiz.com. Got a good deal about $10 lower than the Newegg price, but no idea if that pattern will repeat with the 700watt Titanium fanless.

I had zero issues purchasing from Superbiiz, but this time with my build feeling more complete, feeling more patient, I'm planning on buying the TX-700 fanless from Newegg since the returns seem just as painless as Amazon nowadays and I really don't want to pay the Amazon 6.5-7% state sales tax - still no tax at Newegg.


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## E-curbi (Aug 17, 2019)

He creates so much possibility.

Thank you simple Albert.


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## E-curbi (Aug 17, 2019)

I keep returning to this website and wondering to myself.









						PassMark CPU Benchmarks - Single Thread Performance
					

Benchmarks of the single thread performance of CPUs. This chart comparing CPUs single thread performance is made using thousands of PerformanceTest benchmark results and is updated daily.



					www.cpubenchmark.net
				




Am I the new world record holder for PassMark CPU Single Thread Benchmark using my simple yet beloved Noctua air? 

I mean the Performance Benchmark clearly states (within the testing window) that the World Maximum Score for Single Thread is 3333 and I just scored 3389 at 5.6Ghz soooo what gives, where's my World Champion overclocking trophy?  

When my 8086K scored 3327 after a successful 5.5Ghz attempt I contacted - emailed the Siliconlottery guy, I was frantic saying "Hey brother, I'm about to break a World Record" "What voltage should I set for a 5.6Ghz run?"

He didn't respond. 

Here's how the current CPUs scored at stock settings, this chart below, and the last screenshot is my 8086K breaking that 3333 World Record. I guess, lol Really? I don't know....


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## tabascosauz (Aug 17, 2019)

Seasonic, Noctua and Caselabs in one place. Somebody sure knows the definition of quality and reliability (and how to spend money ).

I love this build. All hail Noctua.at. While you're out there pushing the boundaries of Noctua's 140mm big boys, I've been here pushing their small minions to the limit. U9B SE2, L9i, L9x65 and D9L. Trying to figure out what to do with the complete 4790K system that just got retired, so a new D9L or U12A may be in my future.


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## E-curbi (Aug 17, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Seasonic, Noctua and Caselabs in one place. Somebody sure knows the definition of quality and reliability (and how to spend money ).
> 
> I love this build. All hail Noctua.at. While you're out there pushing the boundaries of Noctua's 140mm big boys, I've been here pushing their small minions to the limit. U9B SE2, L9i, L9x65 and D9L. Trying to figure out what to do with the complete 4790K system that just got retired, so a new D9L or U12A may be in my future.



I'd like to try some of those smaller extremely adorable pieces of brilliant engineering from Noctua, have a feeling they would do just fine at higher clock speeds. Really, it's all about delidding and a very thin die distance for the heat to travel and the pressure you add when mounting - giving that CPU exothermic energy an extremely time-efficient exit route. Whaddid I say? 






						Noctua
					

Having received more than 6000 awards and recommendations from leading hardware websites and magazines, Noctua's heatsinks are serving hundreds of thousands of satisfied customers around the globe.




					noctua.at
				




So many amazing components within this hobby, unfortunately I only get to sample (and play with) a very small number.

When Noctua launches the successor to the C14S C-class cooler (seen at Computex 2018), I'll definitely try it out along with the NF-A12 superfan when it arrives in 140mm form factor and an all black industrial sku. 

Also, have that extremely large Noctua passive cooler shown at Computex 2019 on my list for this build for 2020. My plan is to run it actively with a 140mm fan (just laying on top) turned way down into the inaudible range.

I mean, fanless vs a fan you cannot hear is the same experience right? You could argue added dust as a factor, but sonically - it's the same experience.

Sorry if I went off on a tangent, I apologize. 

Thanks for stopping by, I really LOVE that you did.


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## tabascosauz (Aug 17, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> I'd like to try some of those smaller extremely adorable pieces of brilliant engineering from Noctua, have a feeling they would do just fine at higher clock speeds. Really, it's all about delidding and a very thin die distance for the heat to travel and the pressure you add when mounting - giving that CPU exothermic energy an extremely time-efficient exit route. Whaddid I say?
> 
> So many amazing components within this hobby, unfortunately I only get to sample (and play with) a very small number.
> 
> ...



No, I love this build! It might not be the form factor for me, but it has all the quality I could ever want in one. It's too bad that Caselabs went out of business; I was looking to acquire a Mercury S3 (which I've been drooling over for 6 years) once I settled down from my highly nomadic lifestyle.

The 92mm towers from Noctua are decent, but with an extra fan (or even two in case of the D9L) they turn into very hard hitters. With 2 x B9s, the U9B/S rivals 120mm towers, and I reckon the D9L can beat them with a complement of 3 x A9s. The L9x65 is an admirably hard worker for its footprint, but there are barriers that cannot be overcome with just innovation. The L9i/a are just marginally better stock coolers, lmao.

The best things about Noctua are the attention to detail, fantastic customer service, and SecuFirm2. Everything builds on the same foundation, except the L9i/a.

I'm thinking might actually get my first 120mm Noctua with the U12A. That NF-A12 looks inspired by Gentle Typhoon and looks like a monster. I like my NF-F12, but I wouldn't say it's excellent at what it does.


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## E-curbi (Aug 17, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> No, I love this build! It might not be the form factor for me, but it has all the quality I could ever want in one. It's too bad that Caselabs went out of business; I was looking to acquire a Mercury S3 (which I've been drooling over for 6 years) once I settled down from my highly nomadic lifestyle.
> 
> The 92mm towers from Noctua are decent, but with an extra fan (or even two in case of the D9L) they turn into very hard hitters. With 2 x B9s, the U9B/S rivals 120mm towers, and I reckon the D9L can beat them with a complement of 3 x A9s. The L9x65 is an admirably hard worker for its footprint, but there are barriers that cannot be overcome with just innovation. The L9i/a are just marginally better stock coolers, lmao.
> 
> ...



For this build, the Mercury S8 test bench was once a CaseLabs Mercury S8S with side and top panels, fully enclosed. I kept the bottom panel, the midchassis, the right side motherboard support and ATX motherboard tray and added the test bench shorter front and rear panels in gunmetal and test bench specific front cover in black, only three additional parts.

CaseLabs used to sell a conversion kit from Mercury S8 or S8S to test bench for $79.99. But that was back in 2014, and by the time of my conversion in 2017, they didn't even list the test bench parts any longer, had to pull the schematic out of mothballs just to make three panels for me, lol, and they charged me significantly more than $79 in doing so, since at that point the test benches were for all practical purposes out of production. When they were in production, well I got my first Mercury S8 test bench in all gunmetal in 2015, and it was only $225 complete, a really great value I thought at the time, still using that chassis today as my secondary work rig - research build. 

Yea, I miss CaseLabs so much, really wish they would return to the industry. All my CL parts look brand new, exactly like the day I unboxed them, such amazing quality... a few scratches near the PCIe card slot area from AMD and Intel and ASUS add-in-cards not fitting so well, you know, that wedge-effect with applied force, but overall the powdercoat has really held up in pristine condition.

The fan blades on the NF-A12 do look like a Gentle Typhoon facsimile and I believe Noctua's technical selling point is the extremely low blade gap between blade and frame housing for that sku. Again, I'm wanting to try it out in 140mm industrial all black, until then I'll keep waiting patiently, Noctua parts seem to really take quite a long time to move from prototype to production.

I think I could boot at 5.5Ghz 5.6Ghz all core all thread with no issues using some of the smaller Noctua coolers you mention, surface area is important of course, but thermal efficiency from die to cold plate I believe plays a larger role. Of course, I could not run a heavily stressing benchmark for any length of time with those smaller coolers without hitting 100C, but I still believe I could boot at high clocks and run my work apps with no issues at all, only slightly higher CPU temps.

Maybe I should order one and run some tests, you know, for the sake of science and boundless curiosity. lol


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## tabascosauz (Aug 18, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> Yea, I miss CaseLabs so much, really wish they would return to the industry. All my CL parts look brand new, exactly like the day I unboxed them, such amazing quality... a few scratches near the PCIe card slot area from AMD and Intel and ASUS add-in-cards not fitting so well, you know, that wedge-effect with applied force, but overall the powdercoat has really held up in pristine condition.
> 
> The fan blades on the NF-A12 do look like a Gentle Typhoon facsimile and I believe Noctua's technical selling point is the extremely low blade gap between blade and frame housing for that sku. Again, I'm wanting to try it out in 140mm industrial all black, until then I'll keep waiting patiently, Noctua parts seem to really take quite a long time to move from prototype to production.
> 
> Maybe I should order one and run some tests, you know, for the sake of science and boundless curiosity. lol



Ive been kicking myself for not buying an S3. Back then it was barely more than $200 with a couple of options like USB, a window, etc. Now our CAD dollar is about as strong as a Subaru head gasket, Caselabs no longer exists, and I haven't found a substitute for them in terms of quality and design. I absolutely loved the design of the S3, but fortune had it that I needed something sub-15L for pairing with a Pelican 1510.

Call me peculiar but I still prefer the original palette fans. There's something about the beige that doesn't particularly show dust. Back in the day, original Noctua fans did look pretty hideous when populating a case alongside blue motherboards and red graphics cards, but nowadays as everything trends towards matte black I find it a pretty good look, actually, especially with some white/grey/light blue/other light colour Cablemod cables.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if you could manage with a L9x65, as above everything else, that cooler is wholly dependent on case airflow. But save for cases like the SG05 or DAN-A4 where aren't really other options, it's not a particularly good value proposition. A more boujee Wraith Max, if you will.

You can get a U9S for not much more, though. That's a potent one.

I hear you on the long R&D times. A necessary consequence of a thoroughly tested, quality product, methinks. I'll still take it over the half-hearted, half-baked, RGB infested garbage that's all too common these days.


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## E-curbi (Aug 18, 2019)

Ordered the Noctua NH-L9x65 65mm CPU cooler since it's SecuFirm2 mounting is compatible with my current Noctua kit, so an easy and quick install.

My hypothesis is: The tiny 65mm cooler will allow for an ideal boot and stable working environment for my 8086K at 5.5Ghz and 5.6Ghz 6cores 12threads activated and using current working applications, although CPU thermals will be quite exaggerated beyond base and normal.

Will my hypothesis hold water? I'll find out on Tuesday I guess. lol   Maybe it will boot, maybe it won't. I need to find out, since it will eventually prove how much of a factor surface area really is when booting into higher clocks. From my pov right now, I'm thinking not so much, and silicon efficiency die thickness thermal paste application delidding - that tight thermal conduit from die to cold plate play a much more important role in successful booting vs blue screen.

Thank you so much for the amazing and beautiful insight tabascosauz bro!

I will post results of the tiny Noctua cooler as soon as testing (possible failure) is complete.


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## phanbuey (Aug 18, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> Ordered the Noctua NH-L9x65 65mm CPU cooler since it's SecuFirm2 mounting is compatible with my current Noctua kit, so an easy and quick install.
> 
> My hypothesis is: The tiny 65mm cooler will allow for an ideal boot and stable working environment for my 8086K at 5.5Ghz and 5.6Ghz 6cores 12threads activated and using current working applications, although CPU thermals will be quite exaggerated beyond base and normal.
> 
> ...



It will.  But my hypothesis is that all of your scores will increase if you drop volts/clocks.


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## tabascosauz (Aug 18, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> Ordered the Noctua NH-L9x65 65mm CPU cooler since it's SecuFirm2 mounting is compatible with my current Noctua kit, so an easy and quick install.
> 
> My hypothesis is: The tiny 65mm cooler will allow for an ideal boot and stable working environment for my 8086K at 5.5Ghz and 5.6Ghz 6cores 12threads activated and using current working applications, although CPU thermals will be quite exaggerated beyond base and normal.
> 
> ...



If nothing else, it's a really good looking piece of kit, if I may say so myself  if it proves insufficient to tame the beast, maybe you'll have something that you can put on an HTPC in the future. It's a lot of heat to send through that poor A9x14. My 4790K first started to have to come down to 3.5GHz when I first moved into the SG05 and the L9x65, and stayed that way until the day before yesterday when Matisse took its place. Could it have done it at stock clocks in a confined space? Probably. I didn't like seeing potential temps in the 80-90s though.

Think of it as the Wraith Prism for Intel (though I hate that because the L9x65 got here first, gtfo AMD trying to claim credit! ). Will handle everything except the top end chips that are a bit too ambitious for their own good.

Ambient temperature even helps a little when it comes to small coolers that have to work hard. Maybe keep the air a bit cooler? Should be easy as we're coming to the end of this god awful summer.


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## E-curbi (Aug 20, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> If nothing else, it's a really good looking piece of kit, if I may say so myself  if it proves insufficient to tame the beast, maybe you'll have something that you can put on an HTPC in the future. It's a lot of heat to send through that poor A9x14. My 4790K first started to have to come down to 3.5GHz when I first moved into the SG05 and the L9x65, and stayed that way until the day before yesterday when Matisse took its place. Could it have done it at stock clocks in a confined space? Probably. I didn't like seeing potential temps in the 80-90s though.
> 
> Think of it as the Wraith Prism for Intel (though I hate that because the L9x65 got here first, gtfo AMD trying to claim credit! ). Will handle everything except the top end chips that are a bit too ambitious for their own good.
> 
> Ambient temperature even helps a little when it comes to small coolers that have to work hard. Maybe keep the air a bit cooler? Should be easy as we're coming to the end of this god awful summer.



The L9x65 just arrived, and it's adorable. 

I'll find a good use for it, umm right after I discolor the shiny nickel-chromium plating during my testing, just kidding - I won't let it get that hot.

May not get to mount it today, but definitely this week, I'll boot first into the Daily OC (5.4Ghz 6c12t 1.370v  4400Mhz 17-17-17-34 1.45v) see how this little guy works out before turning up the heat. 

(Left the protective plastic cover on the coldplate for these pics. I'm careful about handling nice parts)


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## E-curbi (Aug 22, 2019)

A cool dood over at the ROG forum says my ring bus of 45 is "dog arse slow". 

He also says he's got a 8086K Apex XI Cinebench R15 Single Thread score of 245, which betters my score by 2points. Of course he had no screenshots to show but I was planning a few 5.6Ghz attempts anyway, and I believe I can hit his 245 at 5.5Ghz, so has the gauntlet dropped?

He's right, I was/am running my ring bus at 45 way low from a Daily Work OC profile, I'll increase to 49, and rerun AIDA 64 memory latency benchmark.

...all in the spirit of performance, and good faith.

____________

Things I've learned from mistakes I've made:

-A really good idea for anyone just into overclocking for fun and a nice daily performance improvement: When going for new attempts, do not use your daily work and/or gaming OS drive. Set up Win 10 on another alternate drive, since AIDA 64 runs and Cinebench 64 runs (from my experience) at higher clocks and high memory Mhz - tight timings can add/leave artifacts and corruptions in your OS and spending time reformatting your daily drive gets old very fast - I learned the hard way. lol

I remove the Optane 900P work OS SSD from slot number 4 chassis number 7 and use a tiny 32GB Optane M.2 SSD for all new overclocking past and beyond any known stable daily.

-Another good idea is remove any other internally mounted storage devices unplug the pwr and data cables or dismount from hot swap bays from a mobile rack, along with unnecessary PCIe Add In Cards, sound cards, capture cards, Thunderbolt 3 external storage cards, so they're not part of your boot equation - fan controllers should remain connected. 

-And always use a CPU cooler with an adequate and large amount of physical heat dissipation and surface area.

Example below on the right: 

Is that joke getting old, or is it just getting started?


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## E-curbi (Aug 22, 2019)

The Noctua smaller coolers - at least this L9x65, did not arrive with a PWM extender cable, only an in-line signal attenuator, what Noctua calls a low-noise adapter. Won't be needing that since connecting to an Aquaero 6 LT fan controller, grabbed a Noctua 4-pin PWM extender cable from my parts drawer. 

It's difficult - impossible to tune the exact rpms when a fan goes inaudible to your ears at normal sitting distance using the low-noise adapters, they basically only give you a 2nd rpm option other than 100%. Not to say they're not useful, my first two or three Noctua coolers before getting a Lamptron 4-fan controller, I daisy chained 5-6 fans directly off the PSU using molex adapters and the Noctua low-noise adapters. Do they grant you infinite granular control one-tenth of a percent adjustability? Well no, but they do a good job, huge improvement towards a sonically comfortable computing experience. I never got into motherboard fan control, tried it briefly the ROG software of 2012 (Maximus V Extreme) was so buggy, you attempt to adjust a single fan and all fans connected would increase rotational speed, and that's when it worked at all.


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## E-curbi (Aug 22, 2019)

The tiny Noctua L9x65 mounts into the socket area like a glove.  

Even in an ugly build like mine, nice parts are still so sexy - individually.


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## E-curbi (Aug 22, 2019)

Booted right into the daily oc profile at 5.4Ghz 6c12t 4400Mhz 17-17-17-34, ran my work apps no issues at all, only higher CPU temps at idle 35C 36C 37C (with the C14S cooler 30C 31C 32C, *so about 5C higher*) and two cores at 57C 58C maximum when working in apps.

All with the very tiny 65mm PWM fan set at 50% pwr - 1315rpms, which is not inaudible, yet barely noticable.

In the Aquasuite software, Fan 1 is the 40mmx25mm Sanyo Denki mounted inside the Supermicro 8-bay 2.5inch SSD moblie rack, it's rated at 12,000rpm yet goes inaudible around 1000rpm, not truly needed since I'm only running (4) SATA SSDs inside the unit they need no active cooling, but had an extra port open on the Aquaero 6 so what the heck cannot hear it at 1000rpm and it adds a very slight air flow over the SSDs pulling front to rear. *Fan 2 is the 65mm Noctua brown and beige fan running as above at 50% - 1315rpms.*

Will it boot at 5.5Ghz and 5.6Ghz? I'll make some attempts after lunch.


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## E-curbi (Aug 22, 2019)

Now things are warming up at 5.5Ghz 6c12t, still no thermal emergencies. 

Thinking I should run at least one stress test, something mild to moderate not Prime 95 or AVX, yet at least pushing the cores to 100% for a brief period and recording temps.


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## Deleted member 178884 (Aug 22, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> Now things are warming up at 5.5Ghz 6c12t, still no thermal emergencies.


Amazing CPU from silicon lottery there, it's always amazing me haha.


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## E-curbi (Aug 22, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> Amazing CPU from silicon lottery there, it's always amazing me haha.



Not So Fast!

Hypothesis FAILED!  

Surface area does matter when simply booting into higher clock speeds.

-Attempted boot at 5.6Ghz 6c12t 1.495v 4600Mhz 17-17-17-34 > bluescreen and corrupted bios #3.
-Switched to bios #2 set to optimized defaults and only set up the CPU OC, no memory OC > bluescreen again yet bios #2 still usable.
-Disabled CPU Hyperthreading attempted to boot > blackscreen with Z390 Dark post code set to CPU temp reading 66C. (most likely 66.6C)

Estimating 66C is just too high a core temperature to boot...

I can boot at 5.6Ghz 6c12t 1.495v 4600Mhz 17-17-17-34 with hyperthreading using the larger Noctua C14S cooler, and run/complete single-core benchmarks, so there ya go.

*Surface area is important after all,* not only for using/stressing the processor, but also for the initial boot into OS. 

Now, have to go back and re-flash my bios(s), crawls away with his tail between his legs. lol


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## E-curbi (Aug 22, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> Amazing CPU from silicon lottery there, it's always amazing me haha.



Yea, this 8086K really is a great CPU, I love it, *but ya gotta give it solid cooling.* Now I know!  Stupid me for trying the impossible or the highly improbable. 

I really thought 5.6Ghz would be no issue. I boot 5.6Ghz 6C12T all the time to run single core benchmarks.  I knew 5.7Ghz all core all thread was out of the question, I can only boot to 5.7Ghz and also 5.8Ghz as a single-core boost (per-core boost, where only a single core will reach 5.7 or 5.8 at a time. 5.9Ghz? lol I'd have to start disabling cores, maybe down to only 2-cores running or maybe even a single core, I just don't know. *And some of these extremely impractical clocks you have to ask yourself, if I do it ok then what? All the trouble and RISK involved, it becomes not really worth it simply to "see if you can".*

If mine was not a work build, then yea it would be fun, possibly very expensive also if replacing burned up - DEEP FRIED components. 

Also, just got another Z390 DARK scare of my life ... again. These motherboards should come with a special warning, *damage to your emotional well-being extremely likely!*

----------------------

Bios chip #3 was frozen at 5.5Ghz would not reset to defaults, so selected bios #2 using the manual slider switch on the board and booted into Win 10. Then moved the slider back to bios #3 and tried to reflash bios #3 three times, all failures. OK, that bios chip is TOAST! 

Back to bios #2 it's set at v1.03 default out of the box, so tried to flash it to bios v1.06, another failure  I've flashed the EVGA bios about 6X in the past always successful, now I'm thinking why would bios chip #2 be unflashable? Oh Geez! A global issue! Then a continuous boot loop from bios #2.

See what I mean, these Z390 Dark boards will scare the crap out of you...

Back into bios #3 still stuck at 5.5Ghz not resetting, then to save and reset out of bios no changes, something in the change log said DNF or DNB 2.3558 enable to disable, so what the heck > I clicked OK.

Now bios #3 is working fine and defaults the CPU back to 4000Mhz and memory settings all clear, not sure what happened, the bios dropped some corrupted data packets???  I have no idea.

PIcking up Chinese for the family for dinner, need some fresh air....


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (Aug 22, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> PIcking up Chinese for the family for dinner, need some fresh air....


Enjoy : D I had Chinese today (it's my birthday today : P) 


E-curbi said:


> See what I mean, these Z390 Dark boards will scare the crap out of you...


I guess all you can do is resolder a new BIOS chip to replace the dodgy one, although that'd take a bit of time up.


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## E-curbi (Aug 23, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> Enjoy : D I had Chinese today (it's my birthday today : P)
> 
> I guess all you can do is resolder a new BIOS chip to replace the dodgy one, although that'd take a bit of time up.



Happy Birthday Brosephioso! Do something Amazing! 

OR stay in - have a few beers and order something Amazing! lolol 

We had "Americanized" Chinese, not actual Birthday-Level Chinese lol  - String Bean Chicken Breast for me and Eggplant Tofu for mom and our 3yr old, supergreens {kale, broccoli, cabbage} last minute drive-thru Panda Express Thursday. It's pretty ok eating for only $18, a lot of food actually - lunch for the following day. Always been my job to go out and get the food, (lol Papi ), the girls stay home and set the table.

___________

I'm replacing the Noctua L9x65 65mm cooler with the absolutely brilliant  Noctua C14S 140mm cooler in a few minutes. YAY! Still need to assess damage to bios #2.

Z390 Dark - 3 bios chips 2 soldered, and 1 socketed. So even if you totally destroy all 3, EVGA will send you a brand new bios chip that simply plugs into the socket. I heard they ship/send at no cost, but I don't know, ROG use to charge like $12-$15 per chip.


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## tabascosauz (Aug 23, 2019)

OOF

Well, the little one did admirably at 5.4GHz. That's a lot to ask of a cooler that's only 65mm tall (that's what the 65mm is, the fan is a 92mm NF-A9x14, if it was 65mm trust me you would REALLY be hearing it lol).

Is your chip binned? That's some nice performance. Meanwhile I'm over here fighting against this 3700X with a NF-F12, NF-A9x14, NF-A9, and about to throw another A9 at the D9L to try and hold this bitch down in stress testing (I'm super anal about these things and will not rest until it holds completely steady at 70-75 on 16-thread 100% load). OCCT large integer is harder to tame thermally than Linpack! 12.6L of volume really seems to be a difficult time for 8C/16T Ryzen on air, regardless of the amount of air going through it.

Speaking of Chinese, I must be pretty lucky to be having it a couple times a week haha.

Also, you high end ATX bastards are incredibly lucky. That's like having 3 changes of fresh clothes on a hot day. Imagine doing what you do on ITX; that's why I don't OC, even when I was in a bigger case with the potential for an AIO, hybrid or loop.


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## E-curbi (Aug 23, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> OOF
> 
> Well, the little one did admirably at 5.4GHz. That's a lot to ask of a cooler that's only 65mm tall (that's what the 65mm is, the fan is a 92mm NF-A9x14, if it was 65mm trust me you would REALLY be hearing it lol).
> 
> ...



The little cooler also performed admirably at 5.5Ghz 6c12t, extremely well. Think it could have held it's own at 5.6Ghz if only made it past the boot sequence. I honestly never remember seeing any temperature anywhere near 66C reading on the Z390 Dark's post code display during startup. A normal post-boot pre-OS temp with the C14S is around 30C-32C. 66C and a blackscreen WOW, just too much thermal energy for the little cooler to handle. Saturated in a nanosecond? Heat soaked so quickly? I didn't believe it was possible to do so.

____________

When the Seasonic TX-700 Prime Fanless Titanium launches, I'll post some install pics, should be an outstanding PSU. 

600watt titanium fanless 2017
700watt titanium fanless 2019
800watt titanium fanless 2021??? Seasonic might need to increase the chassis dimensions, extend the length a bit. 

Love those components that illustrate mankind moving forward.
Thanks for letting me hang out here at TPU with you guys for a week, was very enjoyable.


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## tabascosauz (Aug 23, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> The little cooler also performed admirably at 5.5Ghz 6c12t, extremely well. Think it could have held it's own at 5.6Ghz if only made it past the boot sequence. I honestly never remember seeing any temperature anywhere near 66C reading on the Z390 Dark's post code display during startup. A normal post-boot pre-OS temp with the C14S is around 30C-32C. 66C and a blackscreen WOW, just too much thermal energy for the little cooler to handle. Saturated in a nanosecond? Heat soaked so quickly? I didn't believe it was possible to do so.



Your thread, your rules! (well, aside of the obvious, of course) It has been quite the treat to follow along these adventures.

Maybe something else is going on at boot. It doesn't seem to me like there should be such a dramatic temperature spike so quickly? Is that an exclusive feature to display temps on the Dark POST indicator? Again, all of you so spoiled with multiple BIOSes, socketed BIOSes, POST codes, oh you  

I stress test because I quickly realized that after moving from the SG08 into the SG05 with a L9x65, acceptably cool in games =! acceptably cool. In a tiny case, heat builds up from all directions and can't escape easily. The 3700X isn't anywhere near a dangerous temp, just higher than I'd like. The second A9 is going on today, we'll see how that works out. That, and watching Ryzen 3000 temperatures in any monitoring software is like watching people on a roller coaster. Motherboard fan control just can't keep up with Ryzen (rapid PWM fluctuations become annoying real quick), so just gotta throw more cooling at it.

Seasonic is amazing. I've gotten spectacular units from other OEMs like the Leadex in my G2 750, but Seasonic never lets anybody down. Even more so than their high end stuff throughout the years like the new fanless units, KM3, the AX they made for Corsair, I just built a friend's rig with their new Focus Plus line and honestly, seeing that kind of performance at what was previously just shy of bargain basement pricing had me speechless. Just a couple years ago, the choice was between group regulated shitshow from all the other dubious fire hazards or group regulated with decent components from Seasonic; coming back and seeing that somewhere along the line Seasonic had finally kicked S12II/M12II (still solid on components, just really outdated) to the curb and came in swinging with Focus Plus is really nice to see. And as the stalwart master of power supplies oklahomawolf has confirmed, Seasonic has the retailers pick random units to send to reviewers now. And as expected, they blow the socks off everything else.

The day I no longer need to opt for SFX is the day I come back to Seasonic (though if they come up with an SFX in the meantime...). I mean, the original SF600 is still excellent all around, but it just doesn't stand up to Seasonic levels of legendary.


----------



## E-curbi (Aug 23, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Your thread, your rules! (well, aside of the obvious, of course) It has been quite the treat to follow along these adventures.
> 
> Maybe something else is going on at boot. It doesn't seem to me like there should be such a dramatic temperature spike so quickly? Is that an exclusive feature to display temps on the Dark POST indicator? Again, all of you so spoiled with multiple BIOSes, socketed BIOSes, POST codes, oh you
> 
> ...



What about the SFX-L form factor? Will that work in your builds?

Seasonic announced the STX-800 at Computex 2019, 800watts Prime Titanium SFX-L should be launching soon.

800watts and extremely efficient in a very tiny chassis. 

STX-800 is titanium
SPX-800 is platinum

It's their new naming system - nomenclature, the OneSeasonic Initiative:



			https://seasonic.com/oneseasonic


----------



## E-curbi (Aug 25, 2019)

Noctua teasing it's upcoming black powdercoated coolers, with blacked-out fans.

Hey Noctua, don't powdercoat the coldplate. 

Cuz this pic, it looks like you did - and that would be bad. 

Unfortunately, the C14S is not on the list of coolers to be offered in black. Also, I have one of the all black Chromax 140mm fans and it's not anywhere near the quality level of the Noctua Industrial 140mm PWM fans, have two of those in daily use, phenomenally quiet, the Chromax 140mm all black fan I have emits substantial bearing hum and grind at the same rpms vs the Industrial 140mm's amazing silence.

...yea, could just be my sample, but the price difference is only $3 (three dollars) last checked, and the industrial sku feels much more substantial in the hand - even the frame is made of better materials.

Actually, Noctua has offered all-black fans for about 3years already sort of. If you pick up one of the Industrial skus and then the (8) black corner pads separately, which is what I ended up doing. (last pic)


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 25, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> Noctua teasing it's upcoming black powdercoated coolers, with blacked-out fans.
> 
> Hey Noctua, don't powdercoat the coldplate.
> 
> ...



I've known the IndustrialPPC for a long time; maybe it's my preference for the beige fans that keeps me from buying one   . Though it's probably because the M1 doesn't support 140mm fans, and the NF-F12 is vastly inferior to the NF-A14 on efficiency and noise. I had a PWM A14 in my old Z97MX-Gaming 5 / R9 280X build; it's wonderful.

Apparently, the NF-A12 is supposed to be the bee's knees, so if Noctua comes out with an IndustrialPPC A12 I'll be all over that like flies on a turd. A black 120mm that doesn't scream like a monkey at higher speeds and can actually pull air through a restrictive surface? Shut up and take my money!

I hope Noctua took that picture in a blacked-out lightbox, hence the dark reflection on the contact plate. Also, "coming soon" for Noctua can mean "sometime in the next two decades" so......waiting for Noctua products feels a little like waiting for GM to produce a HD truck without torsion bar IFS......well maybe not, since the 2020s finally aren't T-bar anymore ahahah.


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## E-curbi (Aug 25, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> I've known the IndustrialPPC for a long time; maybe it's my preference for the beige fans that keeps me from buying one   . Though it's probably because the M1 doesn't support 140mm fans, and the NF-F12 is vastly inferior to the NF-A14 on efficiency and noise. I had a PWM A14 in my old Z97MX-Gaming 5 / R9 280X build; it's wonderful.
> 
> Apparently, the NF-A12 is supposed to be the bee's knees, so if Noctua comes out with an IndustrialPPC A12 I'll be all over that like flies on a turd. A black 120mm that doesn't scream like a monkey at higher speeds and can actually pull air through a restrictive surface? Shut up and take my money!
> 
> I hope Noctua took that picture in a blacked-out lightbox, hence the dark reflection on the contact plate. Also, "coming soon" for Noctua can mean "sometime in the next two decades" so......waiting for Noctua products feels a little like waiting for GM to produce a HD truck without torsion bar IFS......well maybe not, since the 2020s finally aren't T-bar anymore ahahah.



Noctua definitely moves-improves at a snail's pace, lol. But you know whatever tech they have already stored in their back pockets, they gotta spread that stuff out over time. If they gave us everything at once, what would they do next?

Same with Intel and AMD, they need to time-stagger launches so they have something new and interesting, and relevant for the next season-next gen-next year. lol I also believe they wait for the competition to show their cards, and plan (although often times unsuccessfully) to only stay out in front by a very small margin, because why not?

Going out on a limb, I bet Seasonic can already produce an 800watt fanless in 2019, possibly a 1000watt fanless. But why make those skus available, when they can incrementally offer 100watt improvements time-staggered every 24months and get some of us (enthusiasts like me ) buying 6 PSUs over 12years instead of only one?

The psychologists employed in their marketing departments - are far from stupid, it means - they know my weakness, my chronic hardware affliction. 

------

While still on the subject of NF-A14s.

This list from personal experience the three Noctua 140mm fans I've used:

1) https://noctua.at/en/nf-a14-industrialppc-2000-pwm I could write volumes for days! Cooling the 8086K at 700rpms inaudible long hours of daily work and 1200rpms attempting higher unknown clocks and profiles - best of the bunch $28

2) https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a14-pwm fan that arrives with the C14S cooler $22

3) https://noctua.at/en/nf-a14-pwm-chromax-black-swap - not good quality imho $25

...and I realize $27.95 (slightly over $30 after sales tax) is a lot for a single fan, but then I only needed one fan for this Batman build, the AMD workstation video card obviously came with a fan, the Supermicro 8-bay 2.5inch SSD drive rack also arrived with a fan, so *no complaints by me over total cost of fans for the build holding at $30. *


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## Dinnercore (Aug 26, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> Noctua teasing it's upcoming black powdercoated coolers, with blacked-out fans.
> 
> Hey Noctua, don't powdercoat the coldplate.
> 
> ...



I think that stuff on the coldplate is supposed to be thermal paste and the whole thing has either some weird lighting going on or is a rendered picture. I don´t expect people like noctua to make such a huge mistake and coat the contact area. I really hope so


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## E-curbi (Aug 26, 2019)

Dinnercore said:


> I think that stuff on the coldplate is supposed to be thermal paste and the whole thing has either some weird lighting going on or is a rendered picture. I don´t expect people like noctua to make such a huge mistake and coat the contact area. I really hope so



Painted Black


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## E-curbi (Aug 27, 2019)

Getting ready to apply some of my secret thermal sauce interface blend of goopie magnificence, I should really give it a proper name, lol. Then remounting the Noctua C14S and attempting 4700Mhz > 4800Mhz > 4900Mhz > 5000Mhz (5.0Ghz) on the Gskill Trident Z Royal Silver ddr4 dual kit. woohoo!  

Already prepared myself for the Z390 Dark to freak me out, piss me off, emotionally abuse me, and then push the ddr4 sticks to their 5.0Ghz of Pure Silicon Glory! 


_"It's a roller coaster ride with the lights turned off"  _


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## E-curbi (Aug 27, 2019)

To check for good seating of a coldplate, I wait for SpeedStep to enable in the Win10 task manager > performance tab > CPU clock speed will drop to 1.24 1.04 0.94 0.80 Ghz, which can take  a minute or two depending on your motherboard and Windows installation. Then I click on CPUID HWmonitor and check the CPU package and individual core temps in the Minimum Column, since it remains fairly constant.

At 5.4Ghz 1.370volts all core all thread, with ddr4 memory oc also applied 30C 31C 32C is a good seating in my mind from past experience. (screenshot below)

At CPU stock speeds, memory ddr4 stock 28C 29C 30C would be about right for a good seating, in the summer months.

Is that the best way to do it? Probably not, but it works for me, giving consistent and repeatable thermal results. This seating (screenshot below) was 1st attempt this morning, which rarely happens - go through a lot of thermal paste around here. lol

Also a possible helpful tip I only recently discovered: The Noctua "L" shaped Phillips #2 driver they package with their coolers doesn't work bad at all. I've used it twice now after years of tossing the idea aside as a "throw in part" just to get you up and running - when a proper screwdriver would work so much better. Yup, changed that train of thought 180, it's so light in mass, vs the heavy driver I was formerly using, that janky wanky cheap-ass piece of bent cylindrical metal actually allows for a high degree of tactile feedback - sending information on when you are inside the screw head (which can be tricky), rotational torque and displays 1/4turns 1/2turns 3/4turns accurately and also sends adequate resistance from the tip back to your hand telling you about 1 full turn out from the "Full Stop" that you are getting close. So today at the full turn left from stop position I went ahead with another 1/4 turn and made a note for future reference. *It's basically a distance measure from coldplate to IHS.*

And one more thing , used one of the Noctua alcohol wipes today, that arrived free with the NT-H2 thermal paste. Noctua is using 99% IPA, very strong scent when opening the packet, and they really do work very well, I wrapped one around my index finger and wiped out that gap between CPU IHS and motherboard socket and the alcohol wipe picked up a good amount of excess thermal paste. *Still don't think they are worth the money vs using Q-tips for the same purpose, but they do work extremely well.*


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## E-curbi (Aug 27, 2019)

Just ordered an NVMe drive enclosure. Using one of the Intel Optane Memory 32GB M.2 drives as an overclocking drive, and the other I thought would repurpose as an office utility drive to take the place of usb flashdrives.

Kinda on the pricey side, but I'm a sucker for efficient heatsinking, hope the case gets nice and warm during operation - proper science in action. 

A little M.2 Optane drive surgery coming this weekend.


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## E-curbi (Aug 27, 2019)

*There's 4800Mhz* *- dimm voltage 1.500v.* Really pushing the 8086K's IMC, yet temps still seem AOK! 


*F4-4600C18D-16GTRS is the kit.*


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## E-curbi (Aug 27, 2019)

*Here's 4900Mhz at dimm voltage of 1.600v, although it ain't pretty.* 

No time to highlight the screenshot in Paint, Win 10 screen was going dark - then back on - then dark - back on - extremely unstable.

Most likely since I don't know how to set up the dimm VTT chip yet. EVGA places a special chip for memory overclocking on the board and in bios it's values are +10 +20 +30 +40 etc, and I have no idea where to set the value. 

Also, might need to enable Extreme Voltage Mode in bios, to move higher than 1.600v dimm voltage.

Will have to open the Z390 Dark manual and learn a little bit in order to attempt 5000Mhz. oh well, I tried. 

Again, sorry for the terrible screenshot, so small and difficult to read, I had no time - any moment I thought the system would crash - although* 2450Mhz (4900Mhz) is displayed there somewhere in HWiNFO 64 and CPU-Z.

It's a 4600Mhz kit, so I guess +300Mhz without knowing what I'm doing isn't so bad. The Bright Side. *

Almost went for the 4800Mhz kit, but it wasn't in the Z390 Dark's QVL so I cheaped out to save $39. DO'H! Now, I know the QVL is only for XMP 2.0 and that 4800Mhz kit may have allowed a sweet 4600Mhz 17-17-17-34 Daily OC. Next time, I'll know better.  

This photo shows the Optane 32GB M.2 drive (on the left) set up for overclocking and benchmarks. Extremely small capacity, yet large enough for Win10 hardware monitoring and benchmark apps, also stripped the Win 10 OS down to bare bones to minimize the number of background apps.


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## E-curbi (Aug 27, 2019)

Might help if I set VCCIO and VCCSA higher than stock, lol 

Something I already knew and completely forgot about it. Also, may need to set a mild OC on the CPU instead of stock settings, just like XMP 2.0 sets up an automatic mild OC on your CPU.

Will attempt again after dinner.


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (Aug 27, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> Might help if I set VCCIO and VCCSA higher than stock, lol


Just be careful, particularly with SA, You generally don't want to surpass 1.35v for daily on either of those voltages, 1.25 is recomended.


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## E-curbi (Aug 27, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> Just be careful, particularly with SA, You generally don't want to surpass 1.35v for daily on either of those voltages, 1.25 is recomended.



Thanks bro,

For my Daily OC Profile I use 1.250v for both VCCSA and VCCIO, nice and safe.

For today's attempt, yea I might just be at the limit of the 8086Ks IMC of *4900Mhz at least on ambient air*, and raising various voltages just isn't going to help. Although adding a tiny bit of VCCIO and VCCSA above stock might stabilize the 4900Mhz boot quite a bit.

Lots of what ifs: What if I completed the water loop? 720mmX60mm of surface area, 120mmX6 of cooling! I know there are 9900Ks in the wild that can boot their ddr4 kits to 5000Mhz underwater.

The SL guy has told me in the past, *4600Mhz and above* *is where booting and stability become* *extremely difficult and IMC dependent*. So my IMC inside the 8086K might be a good performer, yet not the very best out there.

OR, it might be the very best 8086K IMC out there and 4900Mhz is the absolute limit for any 8086K on ambient air.

OR, I'm an extremely below average overclocker. 

gf: 100 good stories make you interesting at parties.


----------



## E-curbi (Aug 28, 2019)

Everything back to normal, reinstalled the Daily OC profile from bios, the Z390 Dark performed admirably today, no issues or strange behaviors at all - first time. 

That VRM (PWM) temp of 28C. That PCH temp 33C, in the summertime. Heatsinks on the board be THICC.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 28, 2019)

@E-curbi I too didn't think much of the screwdriver in 6 years of owning the U9B SE2. Only on the D9L did I start to appreciate the tool - on the split heatsink, the coil sprung screws are located perpendicular to, not along the path of airflow. Noctua's L-driver is literally the only tool on the planet that can reach the screws. Not particularly useful for anything else, but when every other tool in my electronics kit was singlehandedly made obsolete by my TEKTON everybit kit, the Noctua screwdriver stayed for that sole reason. 

Also, the bit head is perfectly adapted to the SecuFirm2 spring screws.


----------



## E-curbi (Aug 28, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> @E-curbi I too didn't think much of the screwdriver in 6 years of owning the U9B SE2. Only on the D9L did I start to appreciate the tool - on the split heatsink, the coil sprung screws are located perpendicular to, not along the path of airflow. Noctua's L-driver is literally the only tool on the planet that can reach the screws. Not particularly useful for anything else, but when every other tool in my electronics kit was singlehandedly made obsolete by my TEKTON everybit kit, the Noctua screwdriver stayed for that sole reason.
> 
> Also, the bit head is perfectly adapted to the SecuFirm2 spring screws.


----------



## E-curbi (Aug 28, 2019)

For external storage and backup, used some double-sided Gorilla tape to adhere a small 4-port Xcellon usb hub picked up from B&H Photo NYC, to the underside of the work desk, it's very James Bond . So can switch on - activate the external storage only when needed. Located the usb port switch just under the mousing surface out of sight, so an easy reach without losing track of work.

The two Sony enclosures in the photos, actually arrived as completed drives, swapped out the 1TB Seagate 2.5in HDDs for Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSDs. So the Glyph Studio 3.5in drive is the only HDD I'm using. As expected, it's far from inaudible since not solid state, yet only turn it on at the end of the workday or workweek for storing Acronis full drive images or simple category redundancy.

Here's a step-by-step with photos for swapping the 2.5inch rotating drives for solid state *if anyone is interested in an inexpensive and silent external storage solution.*

From the previous Batman build thread: Post number 53









						Batman's CaseLabs Mercury S8 Work Computer
					

My 12month old 8700K binned at 5.2Ghz scoring a Cinebench ST at 5.3Ghz of 233 (screenshot below).  My 8086K scored a Cinebench ST of 236 TPU high score, but that was at 5.5Ghz!  What the heck is going on?  It's the exact same silicon for goodness sake! :eek:  Going to push the 8700K further...




					www.techpowerup.com
				





Why not simply buy the Sony drives with SSDs already mounted inside? Sony wanted $600 each. Picked up the enclosures for $85 and the Samsung 850 EVO's back then were $90, now about half that price. Planning on updating both drives to 860 Pros Black Friday Sale - this coming  November. The (4) Samsung 860 Pro drives I'm using in the Supermicro mobile rack were $140 each - now same drives only $87 at Newegg.  

The Glyph Studio drive is also just a very nice enclosure, offering some noise isolation, an internal power supply, clean aesthetics and a front positioned power on/off switch, while most enclosures are the reach around to the rear to power on - front access so much easier. You can open it up and mount any size HDD drive you want. 12TB Helium? Sure, why not. Oftentimes when a company will not sell an enclosure that you like separately, you can pick up the lowest capacity available "cheap" and swap out for the capacity you really want and save a few hundred dollars as long as you don't mind getting your hands a little dirty, lol. I like simple weekend projects like opening a drive and stripping it down to bare PCB, but I realize - it's not for everyone.


----------



## E-curbi (Aug 28, 2019)

Was hoping it would remain a tropical storm. Dammit! Must begin storm preparations. 

Hate living in Florida.


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## Space Lynx (Aug 28, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> Was hoping it would remain a tropical storm. Dammit! Must begin storm preparations.
> 
> Hate living in Florida.
> 
> View attachment 130281



at least cat 3 is manageable, lets just hope it doesn't turn into cat4 at last second... then robin returns to snuggle batman?  ; ;


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## E-curbi (Aug 28, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> at least cat 3 is manageable, lets just hope it doesn't turn into cat4 at last second... then robin returns to snuggle batman?  ; ;



Our roof is Cat 3 compliant, but they usually project out to cat 4 and cat 5 - likely to see over the next 48hrs. Then Saturday it might downgrade or turn north.

For now, just got back from Publix supermarket, got the last 12gallons of water (except for baby formula water), had to get 6 distilled at a premium price, but at least it's water. Already 10 gallons in the house, so should be ok.

The bread, lunchmeat snack shelves almost empty, by tonight there will be nothing for those arriving late.

Sometimes, they do make special advanced deliveries of extra drinking water when storms approach, likely by Friday, buuut I'd lose sleep, my ocd, over that scenario, lol.

Some basics, will go back tomorrow 7am for more umm comfort - storm foods. 

*...What the hell is orange soda for?* don't ask. lol 

a special hurricane adult beverage recipe we've concocted over the years with pineapple juice. Our 3-year old will be at grandma's-grandpa's - wink wink nudge nudge say no more.


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## Space Lynx (Aug 28, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> Our roof it Cat 3 compliant, but they usually project out to cat 4 and cat 5 - likely to see over the next 48hrs. Then Saturday it might downgrade or turn north.
> 
> For now, just got back from Publix supermarket, got the last 12gallons of water (except for baby formula water), had to get distilled at a premium price, but at least it's water. Already 10gallons in the house, so should be ok.
> 
> ...




hopefully your wife will reward you for being so diligent in your hunting and foraging duties.


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## E-curbi (Aug 28, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> hopefully your wife will reward you for being so diligent in your hunting and foraging duties.



Still only girlfriend status right now, but we've been together since Summer of 2012, the 3770K - ROG Maximus V Extreme days. Back then, she didn't want to get married, neither did I, so she created a superstitious date marked into the extreme future that gave her comfort. Ten Ten Twenty Twenty, 10-10-2020. 

So I guess the wedding is next year on some fictitious storybook mountaintop somewhere in the Rocky Mountains. lolol. 

Going out for many more errands.


----------



## E-curbi (Aug 29, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> I've known the IndustrialPPC for a long time; maybe it's my preference for the beige fans that keeps me from buying one   . Though it's probably because the M1 doesn't support 140mm fans, and the NF-F12 is vastly inferior to the NF-A14 on efficiency and noise. I had a PWM A14 in my old Z97MX-Gaming 5 / R9 280X build; it's wonderful.
> 
> Apparently, the NF-A12 is supposed to be the bee's knees, so if Noctua comes out with an IndustrialPPC A12 I'll be all over that like flies on a turd. A black 120mm that doesn't scream like a monkey at higher speeds and can actually pull air through a restrictive surface? Shut up and take my money!
> 
> I hope Noctua took that picture in a blacked-out lightbox, hence the dark reflection on the contact plate. Also, "coming soon" for Noctua can mean "sometime in the next two decades" so......waiting for Noctua products feels a little like waiting for GM to produce a HD truck without torsion bar IFS......well maybe not, since the 2020s finally aren't T-bar anymore ahahah.



Wait a minute. Did you say you were building in one of these? 

Those tiny little coke can size comparison cases? That must be quite challenging. 

I measured the NH-C14S for a CaseLabs BH4 Bullet at one time, and it was a barely fit, but the M1? The M1 is pretty and all I will say that.

This Streacom DA2 in black (second pic) is also nice looking, and mini-ITX, this photo is the vented panel version. Also, a window panel variant sold separately. I emailed the company and asked about a 3rd version I'd seen at Computex which uses the side panels as heat sink fins for the CPU and GPU cooling via heatpipes, so no fan mounted cooler needed. They replied - availability later this year.

$210 for the M1, $219 for the DA2, about the same.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 29, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> Wait a minute. Did you say you were building in one of these?



Yessir. It ain't easy being mini. But you get used to it after a while    I'm manhandling 6AWG copper into enclosures about that size at the place I work right now, so my hands could do a whole lot worse than building in the M1. One of these weekends, I'll find time to take an updated picture of it on its own.

Chosen specifically to fit into this ol' girl: 



I don't want to give up this setup I've had for 4.5 years, but I also want a NH-U12A for stronk cooling. Depending on if AMD gets its shit together and changes this ridiculous crack cocaine boost algorithm of Ryzen 3000, and what Intel brings next year, this may be the shortest stint any new platform has ever seen being in Ol' Beastie.


Hopefully the storm will tame down before it gets there, and y'all still get some quality at-home time


----------



## E-curbi (Aug 29, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Yessir. It ain't easy being mini. But you get used to it after a while    I'm manhandling 6AWG copper into enclosures about that size at the place I work right now, so my hands could do a whole lot worse than building in the M1. One of these weekends, I'll find time to take an updated picture of it on its own.
> 
> Chosen specifically to fit into this ol' girl:
> 
> ...



Hold on now, is that a pelican case computer chassis? 

YES, take some photos, many of your M1 rig and place/post them up here in this thread bro!


----------



## E-curbi (Aug 29, 2019)

Oh God No!


----------



## E-curbi (Aug 29, 2019)

Had to put on some technical videos to get my mind off the current state of affairs. 

Here, Buildzoid attempts to explain the Ryzen 3000 memory system:

I was wondering why the best Ryzen 3000 AIDA 64 memory latency values were way up around 64ns vs Intel's best values closer to 34ns and 37ns.


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (Aug 29, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> I was wondering why the best Ryzen 3000 AIDA 64 memory latency values were way up around 64ns vs Intel's best values closer to 34ns and 37ns.


Yeah it's a shame it's all held back by memory or it'd be a real beast.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 29, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> Had to put on some technical videos to get my mind off the current state of affairs.
> 
> Here, Buildzoid attempts to explain the Ryzen 3000 memory system:
> 
> I was wondering why the best Ryzen 3000 AIDA 64 memory latency values were way up around 64ns vs Intel's best values closer to 34ns and 37ns.



Anandtech's had a breakdown of 3900X and 3700X at launch, and basically it was about tradeoffs. You get 2x the L3 compared to previous Ryzen, but Intel's L3 is unified. You get better prefetcher behaviour, but you sacrifice DRAM latency compared to Ryzen 2000 in doing so. Not that Ryzen had brilliant DRAM performance to begin with, so......

Overall, I'm pretty neutral about this purchase - read: not the greatest decision I've made. I've been locked into Core for so long that a lot of things I've simply taken for granted, like strong IMCs, traditional boost  and TDP behaviour, etc. Locking the 3700X into 4.0GHz manually does bring a lot more stability, comfort and familiarity to the platform, but that also means I don't get everything I paid for. 

I probably should have gone with the 9700K instead, but in Q4 2019 there's no way I'm now still paying premium prices for Coffee Lake-R. We'll see.


----------



## E-curbi (Aug 29, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> Yeah it's a shame it's all held back by memory or it'd be a real beast.



Ryzen 3000 AIDA 64 memory latency of 64 ns is kinda high compared to the Trident Z Royal Silver 4600Mhz kit with my 8086K using Intel's ring bus and some manual settings. 

4100Mhz 14-14-14-34

20.3 nanoseconds 



Everyone keeps telling me if I would only increase my ring bus OC from 45 to 49 I'd get lower values, but I think it's a-ok.


----------



## E-curbi (Aug 29, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Anandtech's had a breakdown of 3900X and 3700X at launch, and basically it was about tradeoffs. You get 2x the L3 compared to previous Ryzen, but Intel's L3 is unified. You get better prefetcher behaviour, but you sacrifice DRAM latency compared to Ryzen 2000 in doing so. Not that Ryzen had brilliant DRAM performance to begin with, so......
> 
> Overall, I'm pretty neutral about this purchase - read: not the greatest decision I've made. I've been locked into Core for so long that a lot of things I've simply taken for granted, like strong IMCs, traditional boost  and TDP behaviour, etc. Locking the 3700X into 4.0GHz manually does bring a lot more stability, comfort and familiarity to the platform, but that also means I don't get everything I paid for.
> 
> I probably should have gone with the 9700K instead, but in Q4 2019 there's no way I'm now still paying premium prices for Coffee Lake-R. We'll see.



Have to agree, the entire 9900K 9700K solder fiasco - increase the die thickness which adds an insulative effect to the thermal conduit in order to support the iridium (indium) solder which was supposed to add an increased conductive effect vs standard paste TIM - seems as if the two not only cancelled one another out but favored the insulative effect.

Wish Intel had simply used paste, but who am I?  

Hoping they either return to standard paste TIM or improved the solder application for Comet Lake and Rocket Lake.


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (Aug 29, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> 4100Mhz 14-14-14-34
> 
> 20.3 nanoseconds


Amazed, almost unbelievable score.


----------



## E-curbi (Aug 29, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> Amazed, almost unbelievable score.



It's an impossible value. It's an artifact. 

*But, it's NOT a fake screenshot,* it really happened after about 12 attempts at a low latency profile. I was going for 14-14-14-34 at 3800Mhz 3900Mhz 4000Mhz and 4100Mhz.

I was wondering how long it would take you guys to say something, sorry for the technical prank. lolol 

*Only posted it for the GIGGLES! lololol. *

OR, maybe it isn't an impossible latency value and Albus Dumbledore payed a visit.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 1, 2019)

Hurricane Dorian. 

I Ain't Scared Of You No More!


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 1, 2019)

Buildzoid's EVGA Z390 Dark deep dive part 2

_"This board is gold plated freaking everywhere."

"It's peak efficiency, It nails that peak efficiency"_

- Buildzoid.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 1, 2019)

Dorian saw your 20ns reaction time and knew you'd lay the hurt on her, so she bounced right off of Florida to go someplace else.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 1, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Dorian saw your 20ns reaction time and knew you'd lay the hurt on her, so she bounced right off of Florida to go someplace else.



That's it! My 20ns AIDA 64 4600Mhz latency score changed the course of history, and more people are alive today!. 

Let's pray for the people of Bermuda and Bahamas. 

...emotionally exhausted, I need 36hrs of sleep in order to catch up to normal.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 1, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> That's it! My 20ns AIDA 64 4600Mhz latency score changed the course of history, and more people are alive today!.
> 
> Live and Love Forever!
> 
> ...emotionally exhausted, I need 36hrs of sleep in order to catch up to normal.



Can't function without sleep! I have to get up at 5:15 mon-fri and be in bed by 8:30, it's not the greatest thing in the world.

I actually looked into the C14S; I didn't realize it was a newer model (I was thinking of the C12P and C14 all along). Now I'm debating revamping the whole cooling situation in my M1, because it seems that consensus is the C14P really muscles its way past the D9L and U9S, specifically when used in the M1.

What it looks like right now:

1 x NF-F12 PWM on side bracket running intake (right side / closer to front of case, on the side fan bracket);
2 x NF-A9 running a weird pull-pull setup on NH-D9L;
1 x NF-A9x14 running exhaust;
Original vented side panel.
What I'm thinking it should be:

2 x NF-A12 on bottom running intake to the GPU and rest of case;
1 x NF-A14 mounted under the fins on NH-C14S;
1 x NF-A9x14 running exhaust;
New windowed panel, since no side fan bracket anymore, and to show off the white/baby blue Cablemod set I've had since forever.
4.0/1.3V is the absolute limit for an acoustically sane and stable as well as thermally sustainable experience right now, any more volts to sustain higher clocks (because not even 4.1 survives OCCT on just 1.3 volts) and it either feels, looks or sounds kinda diabolical in there. 88C steady in Prime95 Small (not Smallest, because ol' Diablo starts showing up), kinda like 3.6 roentgen, not great, not terrible. I'm thinking that maybe a C14S, an A14, and two new A12x25s can lower my temps enough that I can go back to trying for 4.2 or 4.3. Probably could have done it easily with a better binned 3700X, but the silicon quality on mine as well as the current state of BIOS voltage and freq control on the B450 Aorus is kinda comical so...

If I do that, I can migrate the D9L with its 2 x A9 and the 4790K can finally get back to work powering the TV. Win-win.

But anyhow, I think I have you to thank for discovering the C14S. Only problems now are to get demci filters again for the bottom of the case, finding a way to power 3 case fans without resorting to Molex power, and getting a windowed panel when it becomes available.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 1, 2019)

Will the C14S fit inside the small M1? Maybe in low profile configuration? I love the C14S since I'm using a horizontal motherboard and the cooling fin array parallels the surface and allows simply resting the large 140mm Industrial fan on top of the array, the entire mass of the fan supported by the (4) silicon noise absorption anti-vibration pads. I call it a gravity mount. lol 

I don't use the attachment clips provided, since in theory they compress the energy absorbing material and decrease it's ability to perform. Any noise energy absorbing material will transfer vs absorb when the molecules are strained instead of allowed to exist naturally. This is why the weight of your subassembly is so important when attempting to isolate. Heavier subassembies will need larger quantities of material.

1) higher rpms = greater rotational energy is produced and more noise absorption material is needed
2) if gravity is your force vector then the overall mass of your subassembly must also be considered

A gravity mount is not fit for transport, yet for everyday use - it's ideal, the fan goes inaudible at 680-700rpms which still provides more than adequate cooling for the delidded 8086K even with moderate and heavy overclocks, science in action.  

The black corner pads I had to buy separately which kinda stinks, but Noctua ships the black industrial 140mm 2000rpm PWM fans with brown noise absorption pads, so the only way to get the fan ALL - BLACK.

$8 gets you 16count, enough for two fans.

Also, two images from Noctua-Computex 2018 showing the C14S successor prototype. Rumors have it launching Q4 this year. But with Noctua, ya just never know.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 1, 2019)

The Icy Box NVMe M.2 enclosure arrived Friday. It comes with very nice step by step instructions with photos, real printed paper instructions (with REAL staples). lol Now, that's something you don't see everyday. 

I had just returned from the eye doctor morning appt, both eyes dilated so I couldn't read-see the instructions at all, massive blur. How do those people expect you to drive home? 

Icy Box includes a thermal pad, but I had some leftover Thermal Grizzly Minus 8 at 0.5mm thickness same as the pad provided, so thought it might transfer the heat a little better than the stock pad.

Anyway, it's a very nice kit, well thought out, and as I was hoping, during operation the aluminum chassis does get very warm, internal drive temperature up to 45C when running benchmarks, and it's a small Optane 32GB drive, the very first gen from April 2017, they run hot with no idle state at all. The newer gen 2 Optane M15 M.2 drive run much cooler and drop into an idle mode when not in use. The two Optane chips and the controller chip all covered by the TG Minus 8 thermal pad, then a simple metal cover included in the kit transfers the heat from thermal pad to external chassis - a nice design.

Really love it, but overall I can see enthusiasts getting more out of such a premium thermal enclosure by installing a higher capacity M.2 like the Samsung 970 Evo or Pro 1TB, that would be an outstanding solution for storage on the go.

But I only have the two Optane 32GB M.2 drives and a very old Samsung 960 EVO M.2 at 250GB. Mostly, was very much attracted to the heatsink design and it works extremely well.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 1, 2019)

Thanks for letting me hang out guys.

I'll come back when Seasonic launches the TX-700, 700watt Titanium fanless PSU.

Nils from Seasonic Europe stated two of the Computex 2019 videos (In German), it would be available by August 2019, but looks like not here in the US just yet.

Stay healthy and be well! 

Now, we're under Hurricane Watch.  This storm is never going to end.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 4, 2019)

This video that literally placed me on the pathway of ddr4 overclocking as a low-latency advantage over simply plugging in XMP 2.0.

Within the analysis Buildzoid happens on (4) new pre-installed bios PRE-SETS, that were not included in the original v1.03 bios from EVGA.

How did this change my perception of ddr4 Mhz speed and latency? The 1st preset, the LUUMI Daily OC profile preset oc'd in an instant of time my simple 3200Mhz 14CL Gskill kit into a mega ultra-responsive low latency beast of a kit pushing it easily to 4300Mhz 17-18-18-28, I was like OMG, so this is what mem overclocking is all about. 

The LUUMI Daily OC profile also sets up a 9900K to 5.2Ghz 1.300volts which can easily be adapted to an 8700K/8086K at 5.4Ghz 1.370volts or ANY clock voltage combination you wish.

The LUUMI profile also modifies secondary and tertiary memory settings for you and back into the CPU side of the oc sets up VCCIO and VCCSA and a higher voltage on the Z390 chipset - which you may want to maintain or modify to your own specifications.

*If you are already running ANY Samsung B-die Gskill kit, plug in the Luumi Daily and be amazed! *Also be careful, once you FEEL what 4300Mhz 17CL for free - FEELS like. You may want even more. 

I know I did.

*If you don't know ddr4 overclocking (like me)* *Use the LUUMI Daily preset as a template to get you started.* You will thank me in the morning. 

And thank you Buildzoid, your video cost me a whopping $450, invested in a new Trident Z 4600Mhz Royal Silver kit. *So worth every penny, so amazingly FAST getting work completed! *

The Gskill 4600 Royal Silver kit's RGB lighting? Umm, the Batman rig is a work build so the flashing distractions of a multi-colored light show would not really assist work. lol

But I must say a solid blue glow is extremely soothing. "You are currently working as a team member on the regenerative complex of Space Port Alpha." Thank you robot, do you have any spare time later? 

_"Most Samsung B-die kits should hit this (Luumi preset) yet not every kit out there"_

-Buildzoid


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 4, 2019)

Coffee Lake Refresh 9900KS super-binned 9900K launching in October

-Intel Confirmed. Wooooot!

The 9900KS is to the 9900K, what the 8086K is to the 8700K. Intel just pulls out a few high binning chips and increases the factory boost *and calls it a new CPU*, well it sort of is - yet not completely.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 4, 2019)

I like how Intel has exhausted so many alphabetical suffixes that they're now using the -S.

-H for high perf? Nah, that belongs to mobile.
-X? Nah, HEDT has that one.
-R for refresh? Nah, Crystalwell.
-Y? Nah, that one's Core M.
-P? Nah, AMD used that on mobile.
-T for turbo? Nah, 35W parts have that.

Whatever, put -KS for *Killing *it* Superbly*, nobody ever bought our -S 65W SKUs anyway. What with the MSRP, it's going to make you want to Kill yourSelf to find the funds, but whatever.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 4, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> I like how Intel has exhausted so many alphabetical suffixes that they're now using the -S.
> 
> -H for high perf? Nah, that belongs to mobile.
> -X? Nah, HEDT has that one.
> ...



Lol

I can see enthusiasts who will benefit from two more cores for work apps and also want a super responsive CPU picking up the 9900KS. It still uses the low latency Ring Bus.

Plus can always disable 2cores and run it at 5.5 and 5.6 like an 8086K. A sweet 5.4 Daily.

I noticed the highest GeekBench Single Thread scores are 9900K chips running only 2cores during the test.

Hmmm I’ve always ran my single core benches with 6c12t, I thought that was the rules lol. I should disable 4cores of my 8086K and rerun all my single thread benchies 

Maybe I still have a chance at a record and of course that trophy.  Lolol

If Intel did the binning the same as the 8086K, then 5.1Ghz will be the highest bin from Siliconlottery.com tested stable on his ROG Hero boards. The special editions like the 8086K and 9900KS don't change the overclocking ability of the sample, all it does is increase the percent of the higher bins.

ie: an 8700K binned at 5.3Ghz is the same performer as an 8086K binned at 5.3Ghz, exactly the same. Only difference is like 3% of 8700Ks will clock that high vs 14% of 8086Ks.

Except at stock speeds, then the 8086Ks are set to 4.0 base and 5.0 boost vs the 8700Ks at 3.6 and 4.6 respectively. Yet the overclockability (is that even a word? lol) should be the same.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 5, 2019)

Just found out Logitech launched the new gen 3 MX Master mouse.

I've been running a gray/white MX 2S for the research pc, and a midnight teal MX 2S for the Batman for a couple years.

New magnetic scroll wheel - scroll 1000 lines of text in one second. 

Logitech sends out 30% off discount codes via email to their previous customer list, that's when to buy, then only $69. Save $30...

I'll grab one at a time when they send out the codes, the mid gray color for the research pc and the graphite for the Batman. 

LOVE Logitech mice. Logitech speakers? Had an inexpensive $20 pair, they were awful, but that's another story.  

*Goodbye blue Batman mouse, moving you to the tertiary rig which currently is only a box of used parts. lol *

Gen 3 looks amazing!


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 5, 2019)

I have a Gen1 MX Master for laptop use. In its use case, it's amazing.

Sadly, the C14S was not to be  in the M1, it can only fit with the heatpipes facing west or north. Heatpipes west is a no, because the 24-pin won't allow the NF-A14 to be in its space, even though the Trident Zs don't care; apparently, people are asking Noctua for 120mm fan clips so they can remedy the issue with a A12x25, but I don't have the luxury of having my rig out of commission until Noctua sends me fan clips from Austria (I already got ones a few weeks ago for the D9L, so I know how long it takes). Heatpipes north is also a no-go, because my 1070 ACX 3.0 has a substantial backplate and the tips of the heatpipes poke it in a way that causes the GPU fans to hit the A12x25 housings in the bottom of the case. Even if I didn't have the A12s there, the heatpipe poke contributes to my already kinda unsettling GPU sag.

Even if there was a way around those issues, I still wouldn't do it. Cramming it into the M1 literally makes for nearly zero room, and a really ghetto setup between the 1070 almost touching the A12s and there being no volume left for air in there. Other SFF people might be able to put it on a desk and never touch it again, but Ol' Beastie needs to go places far, far away, so that's an instant no-no the moment I saw what it looked like with the C14S.

Good news [kinda] is that I can still use the A12x25s, which are very quiet indeed. Since I had to use the long AM4 bars for the C14S, I took the opportunity to turn my D9L back to up-down orientation and run the A9s in push-push instead of pull-pull. I guess I can either keep the C14S around, or return it in anticipation of getting a larger case for my 4790K and running U12A instead. It's a nice cooler, I'll give it that.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 5, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> I have a Gen1 MX Master for laptop use. In its use case, it's amazing.
> 
> Sadly, the C14S was not to be  in the M1, it can only fit with the heatpipes facing west or north. Heatpipes west is a no, because the 24-pin won't allow the NF-A14 to be in its space, even though the Trident Zs don't care; apparently, people are asking Noctua for 120mm fan clips so they can remedy the issue with a A12x25, but I don't have the luxury of having my rig out of commission until Noctua sends me fan clips from Austria (I already got ones a few weeks ago for the D9L, so I know how long it takes). Heatpipes north is also a no-go, because my 1070 ACX 3.0 has a substantial backplate and the tips of the heatpipes poke it in a way that causes the GPU fans to hit the A12x25 housings in the bottom of the case. Even if I didn't have the A12s there, the heatpipe poke contributes to my already kinda unsettling GPU sag.
> 
> ...



Wait, you have a C14S in-house? Pictures, we want pictures. 

Yea, thought your tiny M1 might be a tight fit. I guess you dislike HUGE cases and the look of "bare chassis wall" as much as I do. The weird thing is, try finding a case that will accommodate an E-ATX motherboard that doesn't also come with bare chassis wall syndrome, lol. I mean every new case on the market looks empty if you don't fill it up with water cooling parts. Geez.

I'd like to grab a Lian Li -011 Dynamic in white for a sweet and fast (and inaudible) little air build, then mount a noise-isolated bank of exhaust fans in the 360mm available right-side rad space.

Still, above the mobo and forward of the mobo - it's gonna look empty.

You must really LOVE your SFF builds bro. 

I fell in love with E-ATX boards way back in 2012, all the extra available options I thought was a good thing since I didn't know much about computers then and had no idea what direction I needed to go in to work from a home office. At that time, I moved from a gigantic 50lb heavy steel and plastic CoolerMaster Cosmos 1000 (remember those?) down-sized to a Corsair 650D exactly for that very purpose - to eliminate as many bare empty spaces inside the build.

Looking back, all the super enthusiasts in the CaseLabs forum buying those enormous cases thinking to myself, there's no way I could ever make that look right, I just don't use that many components for a simple inaudible work build. I stayed with the medium to small Mercury S8s and even then if you don't fill them with rads, it just looks empty and unfinished.

Really love what I'm using now, the Mercury S8 test bench configuration is half case/half chassis and allows an aesthetically pleasing amount of distance between components so nothing looks cramped, yet the rig overall still looks filled up and complete. Although, sure there are still trade-offs, all those ugly angles, my build is not the most photogenic by any means . But, I like to think of it not as a show build or even an aesthetic build, it's a hyper-efficient technical build - plain and simple.

space efficient
power efficient
decibel efficient
silicon efficient
thermally efficient ... yup, a pure technical build all the way.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 5, 2019)

The size difference between the two is staggering.

What I could do:

1. Wait for 120mm clips from Noctua and use a A12 or F12 with the C14S, heatpipes facing west.

2. Get a Chimera Cerberus and put the C14S to work with the A14 on top.

3. Get a Cerberus and swap them around, put the C14S to work with a top A14 on the 3700X. Give up Pelican portability on main rig.

4. Do nothing.

5. Return the C14S, buy a TJ08T-E and a U12A, put it to work on the 4790K.

I'd give my left nut for a Mercury S3 or X2M.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 5, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> View attachment 131114
> 
> The size difference between the two is staggering.
> 
> ...



Wow, yea almost forgot about the X2M, would look like a slightly larger M1 from the external view, that would be so sweet. I wanted a Bullet BH4, then could go mini-ITX or microATX it was going to be the tertiary build at one time, sent the order thru the CL store and it would not process our PayPal. Like what? Wasn't the first time either. Never an issue with our PP account with ANY merchant except CaseLabs so since I live 15min from Performance PCs, would place orders with them (our PayPal worked fine with PPCS) piggy-back my orders with their CaseLabs replacement stock parts orders since they were a supplier. They'd arrive like 6-8weeks later, drive over and pick up the parts, easy. CaseLabs made a few statements in the forums saying if you're having issues with their PayPal, it was your PP account and not their webstore's issue. (rolling eyes emoticon) I could write volumes related to the "business side" of CL vs the amazing quality and brilliant design side, but that's water under the shed or moving downstream or pages already turned or however that old wise adage, axiom, proverb, dictum rambles along. 

Amazing tabasco dood, you listed (5) possible options for your C14S. How about option (6) - keeping it and going with the Streacom DA2 in black/gunmetal all aluminum case only slightly larger than the M1?  

Cleaned up the Noctua 65mm mini-cooler, using my own version of the new Noctua alcohol wipes. Bounty select-a-size kitchen towel a single-pull folded and cut into (4) equal size towelettes (towelettes, I just now reached an understanding of that word, first time light bulb moment), then wet with 99% Isopropyl alcohol IPA and there ya go, coldplate and IHS - cleaning on the cheap. 














The natural aluminum silver sku doesn't really do it for me, but that black or gunmetal (depending on the lighting) that's a sexy case.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 5, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> Wow, yea almost forgot about the X2M, would look like a slightly larger M1 from the external view, that would be so sweet. I wanted a Bullet BH4, then could go mini-ITX or microATX it was going to be the tertiary build at one time, sent the order thru the CL store and it would not process our PayPal. Like what? Wasn't the first time either. Never an issue with our PP account with ANY merchant except CaseLabs so since I live 15min from Performance PCs, would place orders with them (our PayPal worked fine with PPCS) piggy-back my orders with their CaseLabs replacement stock parts orders since they were a supplier. They'd arrive like 6-8weeks later, drive over and pick up the parts, easy. CaseLabs made a few statements in the forums saying if you're having issues with their PayPal, it was your PP account and not their webstore's issue. (rolling eyes emoticon) I could write volumes related to the "business side" of CL vs the amazing quality and brilliant design side, but that's water under the shed or moving downstream or pages already turned or however that old wise adage, axiom, proverb, dictum rambles along.
> 
> Amazing tabasco dood, you listed (5) possible options for your C14S. How about option (6) - keeping it and going with the Streacom DA2 in black/gunmetal all aluminum case only slightly larger than the M1?
> 
> ...



I just finished reading the horror thread about their official EU supplier, Bestcases.eu (where CL cases are still "available" and S3 selling for 600EUR lol), so I can fully see the PP issue being a CL thing. They blamed tariffs, but I guess it had a lot to do with the way the company was run too.

The DA2 is quite a bit larger than the M1 in every direction, almost 5L in volume (the empty spaces top and bottom). The Cerberus is actually mATX and the about the same volume, 18L. As for the size of the X2M, you can probably fit 3 M1s in there, and I mean the Abrams kind 

I'm thinking it might be time to give up the 1510 PC life. That way I can move onto and focus on the Cerberus, buy a HVK Hades Canyon NUC for on the go and fit it into the yellow Peli 1300 I have, then put back in the dividers on the 1510 to use with camera gear. M1 can still house my 4790K.

Bounty + IPA have always been the way to go. Guess I beat you this time, Noctua.  so what's the fate for the L9x65?


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 6, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> I just finished reading the horror thread about their official EU supplier, Bestcases.eu (where CL cases are still "available" and S3 selling for 600EUR lol), so I can fully see the PP issue being a CL thing. They blamed tariffs, but I guess it had a lot to do with the way the company was run too.
> 
> The DA2 is quite a bit larger than the M1 in every direction, almost 5L in volume (the empty spaces top and bottom). The Cerberus is actually mATX and the about the same volume, 18L. As for the size of the X2M, you can probably fit 3 M1s in there, and I mean the Abrams kind
> 
> ...



Sorry if I missed my comparison dimensions ITX chassis vs ITX chassis, they all appear tiny to me. lol Tabascobro grabbed his own build log thread. Does that mean I'll never see him again?


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 6, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> Sorry if I missed my comparison dimensions ITX chassis vs ITX chassis, they all appear tiny to me. lol Tabascobro grabbed his own build log thread. Does that mean I'll never see him again?



Oh, worry not. I'll still be here up until you're so sick of me you want me off your thread    it's not everyday I find a fellow enthusiast who understands the utter importance of brown cooling lol.

I think I found the solution to my woes: the A12*x15*. It's a slimline 120mm that _just_ fits the remaining space above the C14S. If Noctua can send me two sets of 120mm clips, a push-pull with a A12x15 and A12x25 could be done, as well as the return of a A9 as exhaust. Fingers crossed.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 6, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Oh, worry not. I'll still be here up until you're so sick of me you want me off your thread   it's not everyday I find a fellow enthusiast who *understands the utter importance of brown cooling lol.*
> 
> I think I found the solution to my woes: the A12*x15*. It's a slimline 120mm that _just_ fits the remaining space above the C14S. If Noctua can send me two sets of 120mm clips, a push-pull with a A12x15 and A12x25 could be done, as well as the return of a A9 as exhaust. Fingers crossed.



"Understanding the Utter Importance of Brown Cooling" could be a book title. lol  


I'm not such a huge fan (superpun) of the Noctua colors brown and beige - *I only take my Noctua in black.  *


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 6, 2019)

Woooo ordered the new MX Master 3 in graphite for the Batman direct from Logitech.

Didn't get the 30% discount. Yep, I paid the early adopter tax, sheesh. Logitech tapped into my weakness for scrolling quickly. 

Guess I'll have to work Harder to make up for it, I mean Faster. 









						MX Master 3S Wireless  Performance Mouse | Logitech
					

Shop MX Master 3S Wireless Mouse. Features precision tracking, quiet click buttons, MagSpeed scroll wheel, app customization, flow between devices, and more




					www.logitech.com
				









REM Weekend ... surviving the storm ... thanking God you're still alive


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 6, 2019)

Now, Logitech is out of stock OOS.

It's funny how that happens.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 6, 2019)

Daniel works so hard so much physical, could not imagine how expensive his builds are to completion. I would never could never want to afford one.

Guessing $10,000USD to $20,000USD and up for his larger builds, so many man hours included, he's an absolute genius. 

Much Respect Daniel!

...but for me I'll use my own brain and achieve the same or better performance and sacrifice his beautiful and amazing aesthetics for a much smaller price tag.

That's business.

VS a gorgeous showpiece in your home which cost much more ... nothing wrong with that if it's your dream machine and makes you happy - you wake in the morning and at first glance you smile.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 6, 2019)

Now, it's moving to kill more innocent souls in Canada. Dorian is the Devil in geophysical form.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 7, 2019)

We sent $250 to the American Red Cross Relief for Bahamas victims of Hurricane Dorian.

gf insisted loudly and emotionally. Even though I'm thinking only $50 will actually reach those people in need. Bureaucracy, I hope I'm 100% wrong. 

We share the same tropical potentially destructive neighborhood.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 7, 2019)

The Bahamas really did suffer terribly at the hands of Dorian. Simply flattened. It's sad to see that the official count is still at 30, while it's clear from the scene that it's really much, much more.

On a happier note, the MX3 looks like a really good mouse. Because I don't use my XPS 13 too much, my original MX still looks brand new, but if it looked like yours, that new Magspeed wheel looks *mighty* fine......


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 7, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> The Bahamas really did suffer terribly at the hands of Dorian. Simply flattened. It's sad to see that the official count is still at 30, while it's clear from the scene that it's really much, much more.
> 
> On a happier note, the MX3 looks like a really good mouse. Because I don't use my XPS 13 too much, my original MX still looks brand new, but if it looked like yours, that new Magspeed wheel looks *mighty* fine......



Could have easily been us. We had a Cat 4 upper right quadrant heading directly towards us for 48hours tracking. Upper right quadrant adds a plus + to the wind speed, destruction, and category. 

We had a north, south and west roadway evac route planned for Sunday morning. OR if all hell came at us cat4 or cat5 direct hit - fly out to Atlanta Dallas Birmingham any airport hotel, and watch the house destroyed online. 

------

Both my MX Master gen 2s heavy use. The midnight teal blue is still ok, since I'm on the keyboard 85% of the time.

The research rig white/gray not so responsive any longer, cleaned it many times, to the tertiary rig box or gf's parents, I guess for now.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 7, 2019)

gf: Oh my, I think we have brand new hurricane roaches in the bathroom.

Yes, Harry and Nadine, they are extremely calm and well behaved.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 10, 2019)

Working on highest clock speed attainable on air using 2-core and single-core boot and single-threaded benchmarks.

Need to research the dark board's capabilities first. And get some help from an expert overclocker, maybe more than one - all in process.

-----------------

As the thread moves to intermission with a kitty cat lullaby: 

(spoiler alert: he nods off at 2:26)


----------



## Space Lynx (Sep 10, 2019)

I love that EVGA mobo, I wish they made mid-range priced motherboards, I'd give them a shot.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 11, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> I love that EVGA mobo, I wish they made mid-range priced motherboards, I'd give them a shot.



EVGA could easily produce a midrange overclocking motherboard.

I believe EVGA really wished for the Z390 Dark to be extremely special as their debut (back) into extreme overclocking since they loaded on so many extra features not to leave anyone out. Many I will never use like the U.2 NVMe port, or the direct to multimeter connectors, obviously the LN2 switches and monitoring - so there's plenty of room for a midrange $329 overclocking board from EVGA. They might also eliminate onboard video to save some of the budget and eliminate the gold content, still would be an amazing motherboard.

There is in fact so much gold content on the board, I almost went for the Gskill Trident Z Royal in gold, but from my daily working position, I really don't see any of the golden Z390 Dark highlights, and the gf thought the gold was especially gaudy, pretentious, and white trashy. lolol She speaks her mind once in awhile on tech. 

Some enthusiasts believe the Royal silver is also too blingy and pretentious and I understand that completely. Unfortunately, Gskill doesn't offer their new 10-layer PCB 2.0 and higher clock speeds 4266Mhz, 4400Mhz, 4600Mhz, and 4800Mhz *in any other configuration.*

The RBG lighting on the modules is subtle and soothing in solid blue or solid white.

At least I didn't purchase the Trident Z Royal Collector's Edition display case, so give me a little credit for having a minimal amount of good taste. 

Also, the rumor mill is saying Gskill Trident Z Royal in black-chrome with a more modern segmented yet not so crystalline light bar will be offered in the future. Maybe for the next AMD Ryzen series or Comet Lake or Rocket Lake or ddr5. Maybe they won't even call it Royal, I just don't know.










						F4-4000C17Q-32GTRSU - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
					

Trident Z Royal Collector Edition DDR4-4000 CL17-17-17-37 1.35V 32GB (4x8GB) Trident Z Royal is the newest member of the Trident Z family. Featuring a crown jewel design and meticulously crafted to display just the right amount of light refraction, the crystalline light bar scatters RGB colors...




					www.gskill.com
				





Disclaimer: not meant to offend anyone who actually DID buy the Royal Display Case.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 11, 2019)

You know what you could do - get a black Noctua heatsink when it comes out, IndustrialPPC fans, and a paracord/MDPC sleeved set in black/gold. Otherwise, it's not so much that gold is gaudy, it's that it's hard to coordinate and people don't put in the effort to even use custom cables, let alone put together an entire aesthetic. I do hate the font on the Royals though, it's approaching Comic Sans level.

EVGA doesn't seem to be keen on making proper Stinger boards anymore. The current H370 one sucks compared to the Stingers of old (Z87, Z97). That might draw me back to Intel if they make one in the future.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 11, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> You know what you could do - get a black Noctua heatsink when it comes out, IndustrialPPC fans, and a paracord/MDPC sleeved set in black/gold. Otherwise, it's not so much that gold is gaudy, it's that it's hard to coordinate and people don't put in the effort to even use custom cables, let alone put together an entire aesthetic. I do hate the font on the Royals though, it's approaching Comic Sans level.
> 
> EVGA doesn't seem to be keen on making proper Stinger boards anymore. The current H370 one sucks compared to the Stingers of old (Z87, Z97). That might draw me back to Intel if they make one in the future.



There's a long list of aesthetic additions I could add to my build, custom cables being one of them. I could be more creative and imaginative and carry on a "Batman Theme".

Maybe that's my fault. 

*The build is more what I imagined a fictional Batman or Bruce Wayne "would build" if he needed a superfast desktop computer to get work completed - in his upstairs home office. *

And not so much a Batman-Themed build.

Of course Batman has the supercomputer down in the Batcave, but that was beyond my ability to recreate. 

Lots of ugly angles in my build, it's form follows function - extremely asymmetric and eccentric. Exactly why I love it.

Apologize for the old photos. Taken back when we had all the walls bare and packed away in boxes ready to move. Will take some new pics at the new place in January.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 11, 2019)

Can I move off-topic without getting into trouble?

Just trying to help out any TPU wetshaving brothers that might be out there. Is there a hobby subforum?

------

Yaqi Betelgeuse 28mm synthetic Boss brush just arrived all the way from Australia for only $25USD (twenty-five) with shipping included. Wow! 

The Boss is a type of synthetic knot or bristle material developed by Dupont Chemical years ago, now put to good use as a shaving tool, *any Chemical Engineers out there? lol*

Already have a Yaqi Boss 30mm $18USD from WestCoastShaving, and it's about 95% of the performance of the way too expensive Simpson Manchurian Badger natural hair Chubby 3 larger brushes from the Isle of Man, UK.

Betelgeuse, named after the brightest star in Orion's belt and marks the western shoulder of the constellation. Also, from that movie I liked so much. 

From the product photo pages Yaqi Australia: really looked more orange and red, arrives more brown and black,  oh well $25 including shipping halfway around the world, overall an amazing steal of a deal.

Not available here in the US, so had to jump on it.

Beetlejuice


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 11, 2019)

My build - not for everyone, I understand that completely.

Yet, look how that Optane 900P PCIe SSD simply shines in full aesthetic glory with a horizontal motherboard configuration *and no side or top panel *way out at the very left edge, connected directly to the CPU lanes for super speed.

Just WOW!  (first pic below)

Having that image in right-side peripheral vision all day long while working is technologically inspiring. 

.

vs the same Optane 900P PCIe SSD mounted in a tower case then located on the very bottom in motherboard slot number 4 *- not much of an aesthetic impact at all*. (other photos below)

I have to build up my few build aesthetic high points since there are so many other aesthetic low points. 

All that wasted water gear. 

I just don't have the heart to remove it. Designed initially for extremely short combination soft and hard tubing runs way back in Spring 2017, when my next platform was going to be X299 and a Rampage VI Extreme, then Coffee Lake was announced - such incredible thermal efficiency when delidded and high-binned - there wasn't any need to complete the loop.

The top 120mmx60mm rad feeds into the Aquacomputer PWM D5 pump and Singularity Computer pump top directly below via gravity for ideal water pump priming, so no real need for a reservoir.

Scientifically speaking - so beyond cool. 

In this pic: Batman is sleeping - leave him alone.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 12, 2019)

385hrs of Axton commando on Borderlands 2 for me.

Borderlands 3. Who's playing Zane? 

Hey Zane, they ain't gonna wait for you to turn around and shoot man, you're dead. 

2days.

need a graphics card.


----------



## sexpot (Sep 12, 2019)

Bruce, when are you going to put those rads to use?!

The collectors edition Trident Z Royals have amazing specs, the 4800C18 would be my dream kit.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 12, 2019)

sexpot said:


> Bruce, when are you going to put those rads to use?!
> 
> The collectors edition Trident Z Royals have amazing specs, the 4800C18 would be my dream kit.



The very same moment I find a brain in my head, apparently. 

I should have spent the extra $39 for the 4800Mhz kit for a better chance at a slightly improved Daily OC, but again my brain seems to wander like a donkey.


----------



## sexpot (Sep 12, 2019)

I currently have my parts laid out for maintenance. Missing a board, CPU and ram. I only have the Titan Xp and PSU left from a previous build. Going to gather parts slowly and hopefully get the Gene XI next month. I'm thinking the Gene XI would be the best board to overclock memory with for my matx build coming up.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 12, 2019)

I would SO LOVE you to post all about your Gene XI 9900KS build right here in this thread sexpotbro genuine absolute brother from the resent past. 

You have received a Golden Invitation.


----------



## sexpot (Sep 12, 2019)

Alrighty, invitation accepted. Batman with a side of Robin? I won't have a theme though. I need to get this build done fast but it doesn't look to be in the stars as you know there will be interruptions coming soon.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 12, 2019)

sexpot said:


> Alrighty, invitation accepted. Batman with a side of Robin? I won't have a theme though. I need to get this build done fast but it doesn't look to be in the stars as you know there will be interruptions coming soon.



No theme necessary, just spend all your time becoming that super special dad to your new boy. They are transformational little beings.  

Let us know all about your build and your blessing, when you find some time off.  No pressure.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 12, 2019)

Batman and Robin. Together again.  

We may be skipping a few film titles but.


----------



## sexpot (Sep 12, 2019)

Want to guess the upcoming case? Think matx, throwback to the early 2000's. 

Hint - it won't be awesome Caselabs this time.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 12, 2019)

sexpot said:


> Want to guess the upcoming case? Think matx, throwback to the early 2000's.
> 
> Hint - it won't be awesome Caselabs this time.



So mysterious, early 2000s, I'm lost, 2012 is my early new beginning with computers.

Should I be afraid?


----------



## sexpot (Sep 12, 2019)

The original was released in 2006... 5 years later there was an evolution.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 12, 2019)

sexpot said:


> The original was released in 2006... 5 years later there was an evolution.



Oh my, now I'm completely enthralled. 

Keep going...


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 12, 2019)

sexpot said:


> The original was released in 2006... 5 years later there was an evolution.


I'll contact my folks and get you a high-binned 9900KS superchip for standard stock prices.

A new baby gift from me, I'll pay the difference.

Just share your build with us.


----------



## sexpot (Sep 12, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> I'll contact my folks and get you a high-binned 9900KS superchip for standard stock prices.
> 
> A new baby gift from me, I'll pay the difference.
> 
> Just share your build with us.




Oh boy, now the pressure is on.

Another hint - the case is inverted!


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 12, 2019)

sexpot said:


> Oh boy, now the pressure is on.
> 
> Another hint - the case is inverted!



As long as you and your lovely wife are still upright and healthy, I'm ok with that.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 12, 2019)

It's a Silverstone TJ08-E! inverted mATX case from 2011. 

Woohoo, I got it, do I win a prize? 

That's a nice looking case.


----------



## sexpot (Sep 12, 2019)

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner. 

I had to look around far and wide to find one with the side window as well as upgrade the front fan to Silverstone's new AP183 PWM model. I like the small footprint with the large front fan which directly flows air to the cpu/gpu and out the rear exhaust. It should provide awesome air flow in a small form factor.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 12, 2019)

sexpot said:


> Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner.
> 
> I had to look around far and wide to find one with the side window as well as upgrade the front fan to Silverstone's new AP183 PWM model. I like the small footprint with the large front fan which directly flows air to the cpu/gpu and out the rear exhaust. It should provide awesome air flow in a small form factor.



Nice choice! I'm thinking of grabbing one for my 4790K while they're still available.


----------



## sexpot (Sep 12, 2019)

Just arrived, Robin has made an appearance! 

The TJ08-EW features a built in side window where the original was a solid panel. This should help out in the looks department so it's not too plain.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 12, 2019)

I got some MAD guessing skills, right? 

You both are gonna make me impulse buy that TJ08-E.

-don't even need a case.

-don't even have an mATX mobo.

https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=303&area=en

Where do they sell the side window version? I've looked everywhere. lol 

Went out and grabbed Shanghai Angus Steak and Beijing Beef rice and supergreens for the two of us, little bear is at Grandma's/Grandpa's til Monday. It's not real Chinese, still good.

I really need a video card and not a case, if I'm gonna play some BL3. Thinking an EVGA 2060 Super would be about right for a 1440p seldom gamer like me, but then I'd really rather have another AMD card (love color temperature control) just don't know where to begin.

Might just save BL3 for after we relocate, along with all of Game of Thrones, we've only watched the first two episodes first season, so there's like hours and hours of together-time for the new place. Some place at high altitude far away from hurricanes.

*We used to joke around in the forums about Noctua manufacturing a line of cases. I really wish they would. *


----------



## sexpot (Sep 12, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> *I got some MAD guessing skills, right? *
> 
> You both are gonna make me impulse buy that TJ08-E.
> 
> ...



You got that right!  

I found a few stock at FrozenCPU, at a discount compared to MSRP. Seems like old inventory they're trying to get rid of. There's also a 6% coupon code as well you can utilize. PM me if you want it, I think it's against the rules advertising a competitor site.

Link to purchase -> Silverstone TJ08-EW


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 12, 2019)

sexpot said:


> You got that right!
> 
> I found a few stock at FrozenCPU, at a discount compared to MSRP. Seems like old inventory they're trying to get rid of. There's also a 6% coupon code as well you can utilize. PM me if you want it, I think it's against the rules advertising a competitor site.
> 
> Link to purchase -> Silverstone TJ08-EW



Dood, all the crazy madness that went down at FrozenCPU, if your new case could only talk. just sayin'. 

Lots of Silverstone TJ Series over at Performance PCs some at huge discounts.






						Search results for: 'silverstone tj'
					

Your best source on the Net for cutting edge computer modification hardware! Performance-PCs.com Store Performance PC's, Inc. PPCS




					www.performance-pcs.com
				




Hey, PPCS has the Fortress FT02 midtower.

I always wanted one of those, right before I dropped into CaseLabs stuff. Hey, they have (5) of them, wow! 

It's such a classic. 






*Borderlands 3 is going live at 7pm EST for PC.* Geez, want to play it so bad.

Couldn't get a video card here until Monday. 

I'm not really into gaming much anymore, but I LOVE Borderlands and the Doom series, never stop playing those two...


----------



## sexpot (Sep 12, 2019)

I know right, I'm just happy the case arrived brand spankin new. I haven't taken it out of the case yet and want to keep it pristine until I can get more parts. Can't say anything about how FCPU was run previously, but this order went through without a hitch so here's to the new crew running it.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 13, 2019)

I like Eber with Hardwarecanucks, he's cool. 

Eber says 70days on a single charge, not 7days, lol. And he's absolutely correct, the charge on both my MX Master 2S's lasts forever for a wireless mouse, and the software gives you a Windows10 heads up alert when the battery is getting low.

As far as the (matching) MX keyboard Eber mentions in the video, we all know that's only a spin-off product - janky at best. Keep using your awesome mechanical keyboard from a company that only makes keyboards.  lol 

Also, from my personal use, if you love a really FAST mousing experience, leave the Win10 mouse pointer motion speed at default and set your MX Master mouse pointer speed to 66% on the slidebar in Logitech Options software. You will love it so much at 1440p it equates to about 2500dpi out of the maximum capable of 4000dpi. If you are using a higher res display like 4K set the pointer speed higher more like 70% to 80% whatever FEELS best to you.


----------



## sexpot (Sep 13, 2019)

The FT02 brings back memories for sure. That was my first case into _performance pc’s. _Prior to that one, it was a stock beige Gateway PC from a garage sale.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 13, 2019)

Thanking everyone at TPU.

I'll see you amazing and wonderful gents again in 3months after our relocation to safer-higher ground.

Be Well and create so much happiness in the meantime. 

A classic full-hour music video from Iceland that still feels so good. 

Enjoy Peace and Love!


----------



## sexpot (Sep 13, 2019)

Take it easy Brucey, moving can be stressful but don't let it get to you! See you when you come back, I'll add updates here as I go so you can have some reading material once you're back in action.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 13, 2019)

sexpot said:


> Take it easy Brucey, moving can be stressful but don't let it get to you! See you when you come back, I'll add updates here as I go so you can have some reading material once you're back in action.



Thank you superbro, I'd really enjoy watching your build. Knowing your extensive PC builder's skill tree lol  - totally certain it will be outstanding.

Looks like we're going to have plenty to deal with.  Another one? 

We only got a week off. sheesh.

Looks like I'll be making a bottled water run today and get plenty of food in the house, here we go again.


----------



## sexpot (Sep 13, 2019)

Not to make light of your predicament, but I love your file name - lol!


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 14, 2019)

Turns out my board, like many AM4 boards when faced with Zen 2 for the first time, just needed a token voltage offset as a form of boot-in-the-ass, if you will. It's finally functioning as intended, boosting as it should, idling as it should, stressing like it should. And what do you know, since Ryzen handles itself better thermally at 3.6-4.4GHz than I can with a manual 4.0, it looks like the D9L was more than sufficient after all.

No matter. The U9S is the man of the house now, and I dare say it looks better with 2 fans than the D9L does, and is quieter too. Team Brown is back in business. Sad to see the C14S go back to Amazon, but it just wasn't going to physically work.


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (Sep 15, 2019)

How's your day been today? I recently updated to 0702 on my X299 Omega after realising it was a thing and tuned my utter weak RAM a bit @ 2666 and got *a serious boost* in cpu-z single/multi scores!      : O!


----------



## sexpot (Sep 15, 2019)

Nice results HEDT is too awesome with quad channel ram. 

New upgrade for the front 180mm fan came in, the AP183 which was just released earlier this year is a definite plus. It can now utilize normal PWM fan headers on boards and controllers. The older AP181 fans _should_ be connected directly to the PSU due to their power draw. Not much else to do now besides wait for the 9900KS.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 15, 2019)

sexpot said:


> Nice results HEDT is too awesome with quad channel ram.
> 
> New upgrade for the front 180mm fan came in, the AP183 which was just released earlier this year is a definite plus. It can now utilize normal PWM fan headers on boards and controllers. The older AP181 fans _should_ be connected directly to the PSU due to their power draw. Not much else to do now besides wait for the 9900KS.



Stop, I can only take so much persuasion before I buy a TJ08T-E


----------



## sexpot (Sep 15, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Stop, I can only take so much persuasion before I buy a TJ08T-E



Amazon has the Titanium for under MSRP, do it up!






						Amazon.com: SilverStone Technology Micro-ATX Mini-DTX, Mini-ITX Mid Tower Computer Case TJ08T-E Titanium: Gateway
					

Buy SilverStone Technology Micro-ATX Mini-DTX, Mini-ITX Mid Tower Computer Case TJ08T-E Titanium: Everything Else - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (Sep 15, 2019)

sexpot said:


> New upgrade for the front 180mm fan came in, the AP183 which was just released earlier this year is a definite plus. It can now utilize normal PWM fan headers on boards and controllers. The older AP181 fans _should_ be connected directly to the PSU due to their power draw. Not much else to do now besides wait for the 9900KS.


Wow awesome buy - those air perpetrators are beasts, can't wait to upgrade my cooling then I might try some.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 15, 2019)

I went and ordered it. Curse you  

I don't know if I want to stick with the AP181 or swap it out for an IndustrialPPC A14.


----------



## sexpot (Sep 15, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> I went and ordered it. Curse you
> 
> I don't know if I want to stick with the AP181 or swap it out for an IndustrialPPC A14.





Do you know if the 140mm frame will fit into the existing AP181 mounting points? If not, maybe look into an adapter if they sell one. I didn't want to mess around with connecting directly to the PSU so I went ahead and ordered the AP183.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 15, 2019)

sexpot said:


> Do you know if the 140mm frame will fit into the existing AP181 mounting points? If not, maybe look into an adapter if they sell one. I didn't want to mess around with connecting directly to the PSU so I went ahead and ordered the AP183.



I think the TJ08B-E supports a 140mm or Air Penetrator in the front? I would assume that means a standard 140 will work.

Linking up the front 140 and the rear 120mm shouldn't be too big a problem. But I do have a billion Noctua Y-splitters, LNAs and extensions lol.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 15, 2019)

Grabbed a TJ08-E in Titanium - be here Wednesday. 

Gonna become the tertiary build, although using prudent economics - the tertiary build is supposed to receive parts passed down from the secondary build (passed down from the primary build) extending the service life and the long term use and value, so without an mATX motherboard to pass down - kinda breaks up that logic completely. lolol

This classic chassis will look amazing just about anywhere in the new house, and I already have plenty of "daily naked open chassis hardware exposure" going on so this little case will be better for out of the home office intermingling with kitties and bunnies, and curious 3years olds. 

Only need to pick up a Z370/Z390 mATX mobo, a mid-range board will be fine, something that will run the 8700K at a stable daily 5.2Ghz, if such a board does indeed exist.

You guys are making me so crazy - Carry On!


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 15, 2019)

Titanium bros  

Mine's going to be the same, old parts that I don't wanna chuck in the bin. 4790K, H97N, 16GB Fury kit, 500GB 850 EVO, D9L, and a Silverstone 450W SFX.  Thank god for Intel's integrated graphics, at least I can still use the PC to do a great many things. Though I am very tempted to switch the builds around and slap a U12A on the 3700X.

Which do you reckon will come out on top, a 2 x A14 C14S, or a 2 x A12 U12A?


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## sexpot (Sep 16, 2019)

Nice, now we're TJ-riplets haha


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## E-curbi (Sep 16, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Titanium bros
> 
> Mine's going to be the same, old parts that I don't wanna chuck in the bin. 4790K, H97N, 16GB Fury kit, 500GB 850 EVO, D9L, and a Silverstone 450W SFX.  Thank god for Intel's integrated graphics, at least I can still use the PC to do a great many things. Though I am very tempted to switch the builds around and slap a U12A on the 3700X.
> 
> Which do you reckon will come out on top, a 2 x A14 C14S, or a 2 x A12 U12A?



See, now you can keep your C14S, woohoo! 

I'm also going with a Noctua 140mm PWM Industrial fan for the front intake. I'll make (4) 180mm to 140mm adapters using pure silicon string, *and* *hover that Noctua fan in midair. *

...then seal the 40mm gap with Gorilla tape.

--------

About building into the TJ08:

Long story - long. Was considering this MSI ITX board for the TJ08 build only $165, Great Price! (pic below)

MSI MPG Z390I Gaming Edge AC. It's listed under the Gskill Trident Z Royal Silver 4600Mhz kit's QVL. F4-4600C18D-16GTRS. That's pretty sweet memory capability for an ITX board, and that price, wow.

Then dropping the 8700K into it, buuuut.

Got the 1st Z390 Dark RMA'd motherboard working today just fine. It was a grounding issue with a power strip I was using for testing before moving to the APC UPS battery backup. Symptoms were intermittent unwanted reboots every 30sec 2min 5min also bios flashes were not getting enough power (I'm guessing ) so every new flashing would stall midway and become corrupted, all (3) bioses at one time not working, code 00 - thus the RMA.

Can ya believe it? Went through so much absolute hell with that 1st board.

Anywhoo, such is the strange side of natural happenstance I guess, so I'm going to need the 8700K and be* running DUAL Z390 DARKs in the office*, oh yea. 


So I have no motherboard or CPU for the TJ08 Titanium build. 

This MSI ITX board - 4600Mhz ddr4 rated by Gskill. Wow, and way less than $200. Nice looking too, (no dragons).


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## sexpot (Sep 16, 2019)

^ wow power strip who woulda thunk it. I'm still on my original APC power strip from a decade ago. Maybe it's times to replace it?  

In other news, we picked up a new washer + dryer set this afternoon. With the new addition to our family, we figured it was time to upgrade the current set that's going on 20 years old now.


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## E-curbi (Sep 16, 2019)

sexpot said:


> ^ wow power strip who woulda thunk it. I'm still on my original APC power strip from a decade ago. Maybe it's times to replace it?
> 
> In other news, we picked up a new washer + dryer set this afternoon. With the new addition to our family, we figured it was time to upgrade the current set that's going on 20 years old now.



You don't live in the lightning and power surge capital of the US. Those strips get hit over and again and eventually the capacitors just cannot take another surge or spike.

The APC strip that went bad was only about 24months in use. Of course it could have been a separate issue with that individual unit itself, and not an accumulation of stress on the capacitors.


Here's how to diagnose a bad surge strip grounding issue:

When you turn off power from the rear switch on your PSU, all lights should go out on your motherboard within 2-3seconds. and my 1st Z390 Dark was taking like 20-40seconds.

*But wait, I knew that diagnosis*, yet thought the extended power off, was a new characteristic of the Z390 Darks since my 2nd Z390 Dark (which works perfectly) even now when it blue screens from a failed OC attempt the 5volt standby white LED will REMAIN ON for freaking 4-5minutes even when you pull the power cord from the wall.  So I just thought that was how all the Z390 Darks operated normally, holding power in capacitors for a great length of time??? I didn't know. 

I threw out that faulty APC surge strip but only got around to (re)testing Z390 Dark board number 1 today. Silly me.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 16, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> See, now you can keep your C14S, woohoo!
> 
> I'm also going with a Noctua 140mm PWM Industrial fan for the front intake. I'll make (4) 180mm to 140mm adapters using pure silicon string, *and* *hover that Noctua fan in midair. *



I've already boxed it up and set it up for a return to Amazon    I don't think the C14S is for me, there's just not enough clearance on mini-ITX boards to fiddle with all the connectors underneath it. Since the TJ08 gives me plenty of room, I think a U12A is in my future. First things first, I now have a D9L lying around waiting to be put back in.

The TJ08 already supports a 140mm spinner in the front. No need for ghetto modding. With the amount of air that the A14 moves, I don't think you need to seal the gap. I'm probably going to opt for the PPC-2000, don't need the ear blaster 3000 version as the 2000 already moves up to 107CFM.



sexpot said:


> ^ wow power strip who woulda thunk it. I'm still on my original APC power strip from a decade ago. Maybe it's times to replace it?
> 
> In other news, we picked up a new washer + dryer set this afternoon. With the new addition to our family, we figured it was time to upgrade the current set that's going on 20 years old now.



I'll do you one better; I've had the same Monster Power bar since 2002. It's never let me down, but I'm thinking this year might be the year for a sine UPS. One of our local transformer stations kept exploding for three days straight in a dazzling display of fireworks, thus giving us ~10,000 homes power outages for three straight nights. At least a UPS will allow me to shut off my PC and charge some devices while I wait.


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## E-curbi (Sep 16, 2019)

sexpot said:


> Nice, now we're TJ-riplets haha



Temjin Trifecta! 

*(not my pics below)*

The TJ08-E Titanium won't arrive until Wednesday. Thanks for the tip Sexpotbro, should be an amazing little chassis to build into.


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## E-curbi (Sep 16, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> How's your day been today? I recently updated to 0702 on my X299 Omega after realising it was a thing and tuned my utter weak RAM a bit @ 2666 and got *a serious boost* in cpu-z single/multi scores! : O!View attachment 131956



Wow, that multithread score. 

My little 6-core cpus can't do that. lol 

Any increase in responsiveness lower-latency with bios updates? Does Intel's Turbo Boost Max Tech 3.0 still arrive in Win10 updates? I really loved that software way back using a 6800K. Unfortunately, when I applied the quad-core 3200/14 XMP in bios, my CPU package temps would idle at 52C 55C, ouch. I guess the IMC's for X99 chips just wasn't made for 3200Mhz OR I had a defective 6800K/Rampage V Edition 10 board.

Never found out what was going on, but knew others were having the same issue with the same parts.


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (Sep 16, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> Does Intel's Turbo Boost Max Tech 3.0 still arrive in Win10 updates?


Not too sure, never really used it to be honest, I just sync all cores and have done with it


E-curbi said:


> Unfortunately, when I applied the quad-core 3200/14 XMP in bios, my CPU package temps would idle at 52C 55C, ouch. I guess the IMC's for X99 chips just wasn't made for 3200Mhz OR I had a defective 6800K/Rampage V Edition 10 board.


X99 sadly failed at memory overclocking in general, IMC wasn't great either.


----------



## sexpot (Sep 16, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> X99 sadly failed at memory overclocking in general, IMC wasn't great either.




^Yup, my old x99 topped out at 3400MHz C14. It required a lot of tuning the SA / IO voltages to get HCI Memtest stable at 1000% coverage. Raising those voltages too high definitely effects the CPU temps as well as the Input voltage. Ahh miss the days of quad channel ram overclocking. Was so satisfying once you get it to consistently train and have not the IO / RTL's drift between warm and cold boots.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 16, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> Temjin Trifecta!
> 
> *(not my pics below)*
> 
> The TJ08-E Titanium won't arrive until Wednesday. Thanks for the tip Sexpotbro, should be an amazing little chassis to build into.



y'all lucky bums, my case doesn't arrive until next Wednesday, something about transit time between Michigan and BC

I started testing stock Ryzen 3000 boost settings again, this time with a -0.075V offset, and what a difference it makes. I think my M1 is feeling the impending threat of the TJ08 and wants to draw my attention to itself for as long as possible


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (Sep 16, 2019)

sexpot said:


> ^Yup, my old x99 topped out at 3400MHz C14. It required a lot of tuning the SA / IO voltages to get HCI Memtest stable at 1000% coverage. Raising those voltages too high definitely effects the CPU temps as well as the Input voltage. Ahh miss the days of quad channel ram overclocking. Was so satisfying once you get it to consistently train and have not the IO / RTL's drift between warm and cold boots.


Sounds like you had fun, I definitely need faster ram currently running it at 2666 14-16-16-35 2T @ 1.33v so nothing special, just crap micron A die. Gotta say pushing RAM made everything just feel more fluid for some reason, and turns seem faster on Civ 6.


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## sexpot (Sep 17, 2019)

Non computer related, but my washing machine decided to take a dump and the drum barrel cracked during a wash cycle. It was a frantic mess to clean and remove the unit to recycling. Our weekend adventure was to go shop for a new set which will be delivered at the end of this week. Just in time if I may add!

Project sidekick Robin will unfortunately need to take a back seat and on hold for a little bit.  

My flooring took a hit and buckled up a bit but most of the water is dried. I didn't receive any complaints from the neighbors downstairs over the weekend so I talked to the owner tonight and he'll let me know if he spots any water on the ceiling.  

Out with the old and damaged! (Disclaimer - not actual pic. In my rage of disposal I didn't bother to take a picture. It's the exact same model, 22 years old original to my apartment)






Water damaged flooring which will need to be replaced 





Laundry closet cleaned up and ready for the new set!





My little pupper doing his best to inspect and tell me everything will be alright.


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## phanbuey (Sep 17, 2019)

ugh that sucks...


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## E-curbi (Sep 18, 2019)

TJ08-E Titanium just arrived!


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## sexpot (Sep 18, 2019)

Nice! How is the finish on it? Does it match with the Gunmetal from CL? Also, that Aida latency score is nuts, I haven't seen 20ns before.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 18, 2019)

sexpot said:


> Nice! How is the finish on it? Does it match with the Gunmetal from CL? Also, that Aida latency score is nuts, I haven't seen 20ns before.



Haven't opened the box yet, not certain we are keeping the TJ08, gf found another Silverstone inverted she likes better for the new house family room.


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## sexpot (Sep 18, 2019)

Whoa it's like the TJ08 on roids, dual 180mm AP fan?!! Thinking about putting the second z390 Dark in the MM01?


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## E-curbi (Sep 18, 2019)

sexpot said:


> *Whoa it's like the TJ08 on roids,* dual 180mm AP fan?!! Thinking about putting the second z390 Dark in the MM01?



Hemorrhoids? 

1st (RMA'd) Z390 Dark stopped working. Not sure if I can fix it. EVGA sent it back yet didn't charge us so I'll see what I can do. If not fixable - will look very nice on the motherboard wall in the new office. 

That Silverstone Mammoth MM01 would actually look very nice on the left side of my working position along with a custom cut glass side panel - still extremely impractical and lacks all the amazing efficiencies of the Batman build, it wouldn't be inaudible or even comfortable or thermally efficient, every component would run much warmer even if I pulled out the silly HEPA filter  from the front intake.

Anyhoo, I'm thinking more of moving my all gunmetal CL test bench (not the Batman CL testbench, I have two) to another table in the new office space just for working on and testing parts, and picking up a 4U server chassis for the 2ndary research rig since my current APC UPS is server length/width and ready to mount into a rack.

Someone out there certainly produces a short desktop server rack frame capable of mounting 2 or 3 components I can reach from my work desk. 

I just need to find it.

...something like this 4U server case below. Inexpensive like $125 and I can move into the inaudible range easily with (2) very lightweight 80mm industrial fans from Blacknoise Germany - noise energy isolated - to create a nice PULL of cold air through the chassis front to rear, and I'll use my 2year old Seasonic 600watt fanless PSU, this 4U case below supports standard ATX power supplies. Should be awesome with a 2.5in Supermicro hotswap SSD mobile rack mounted in the right hand accessory bay.



			blacknoise.com - Blacknoise NB-IP55-Series 8025


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## E-curbi (Sep 18, 2019)

Here's a short tabletop server rack about 10U overall capacity (pic below) that would work out ok since my APC UPS is 2U rack mountable and the server case above is 4U. Leaving room for one more component and some airflow.

Sorry gents, the Temjin TJ08 will need to be returned to Amazon tomorrow unopened. 

It's an amazing little case that's for certain, but for a home office I really should stay with E-ATX form factors so I can directly pass down components from previous builds and industrial server type cases just blend so well aesthetically with all my current components along with offering so many more configuration possibilities and modifications maybe at an even a greater level than the CL open bench.

This server rack below with or without wheels is what I have in mind to position to my left on top of my computer tables, while the Batman primary rig always sits to the right.

I'll mount the 2ndary research rig (Maximus X Apex and 8700K@5.2Ghz Trident Z 3200/14 kit Noctua C14S Seasonic 600w fanless) and the APC SRT1000RMXLA SmartUps Online into this short server frame, should look great when filled with components. 

2nd pic, what my APC 1000VA UPS looks like. Will need to purchase the rack mounts then I can move the extremely tall and heavy unit OFF the floor. 

Last pic, the APC UPS unit is just too darn tall for the desktop in tower configuration, eclipses any view of hardware, it's an absolute monolith that needs to be reconfigured to the horizontal - mounted in a nice server rack.


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## sexpot (Sep 19, 2019)

Your office is going to be a hybrid server closet meets silent pc computing. Oh~ the inaudible  beauty!

And now the three Temjineers has become two.


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## E-curbi (Sep 19, 2019)

sexpot said:


> Your office is going to be a hybrid server closet meets silent pc computing. Oh~ the inaudible  beauty!
> 
> And now the three Temjineers has become two.



I sowwy, I let you guys down. 

Would've been a blast building (3) Temjins all together.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 19, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> I sowwy, I let you guys down.
> 
> Would've been a blast building (3) Temjins all together.



Dammit!

But to tell the truth, I can't say I know what to do with this build either. Aside from running the TV and loaning it to my father to help him diagnose some performance issues with his office PC, this wasn't the most "necessary" purchase I've made...

One thing is for sure, though. I've been longing to get a TJ08 for years, and I sure as hell wasn't going to pay more than double the money for a mATX case with inferior build quality and materials compared to the M1 (Chimera Cerberus). Cerberus has ridiculously long I/O cables, the options drive the price even higher, and can't support even a U12A, so the TJ08 is a win in those regards.


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## E-curbi (Sep 19, 2019)

sexpot said:


> Your office is going to be a hybrid server closet meets silent pc computing. *Oh~ the inaudible  beauty!*
> 
> And now the three Temjineers has become two.



I think you meant to say - oh the inaudible paradox.

Since server racks/rooms are normally extremely noisy. 

Found an ideal 9U desktop rack with rails. Adjustable depth, that's cool I only need 22.5inches for my relatively short components. Not sure just how the rail system works just yet.  Have to figure that one out.

Nice little compact unit with 3U of spare capacity for airflow or another component.


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## E-curbi (Sep 19, 2019)

The new office is going to be amazing, lots of windows, small kitchen and bathroom on one end, double bed for undisturbed napping and the best part of all, I'll finally get that screen door installed that allows me to stay in touch with the rest of the house, yet keeps out felines, and blue mini-rex bunnies and their fur out of the computer gear, and also child-proof unless supervised.

My lovely home office screen door - just like Kramer.


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## sexpot (Sep 19, 2019)

It's going to feel like a long 3 months!


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## E-curbi (Sep 19, 2019)

The fan reference a few posts back, the Blacknoise Industrial fans from Germany. Way back 2016, when I was still moving enclosures with top and side panels (standard cases) into the inaudible range, I searched for a fan much lighter in mass (therefore easier to isolate) than the Sanyo Denki Industrials which can be a bit on the heavy side. The Blacknoise Industrial Series are ideal for that purpose. Same company that produces the NoiseBlocker eLoops which were/are so popular with enthusiasts. 

Have a few 120x25mm and 120x38mm (SuperThicc) skus that I just love (pics below). Honestly, if Blacknoise made an industrial fan in the 140mm range I would choose the lowest rpm rated sku and mount one to both my Noctua C14S air coolers, they are that amazing with extremely high CFM/mass ratio along with quiet motors. They only come in basic black, no frills, no RGB which is fine for my builds.



			blacknoise.com - Blacknoise industrial fans
		


Yep, if Blacknoise only produced a 140mmx25mm sku, I'd probably not be purchasing the Noctua 140mm Industrials, which by themselves are exceptionally good.

Most groups that manufacture industrial enterprise server and data center cooling fans DO NOT move into the 140mm range at all, only Noctua, and thank goodness they made that decision.

Already have a few Blacknoise 120x25mm skus I can mount a single fan on the front of the YangYi Taiwan 4U server case for a little filtered PUSH flow, and I'll need to order quantity (2) 80mm lowest rpm range Blacknoise to create the dual PULL flow out the rear of the case.

Using a 2nd Aquacomputer Aquaero 6 LT to drive the fans both PWM and DC each fan isolated/mounted with (4) soft silicon grommets, all three case fans plus the 140mm mounted on the Noctua cooler should operate easily within the inaudible range inside the server case. Using MSI's Afterburner software to drive the AMD Radeon Pro workstation graphics card fan, shouldn't hear a single peep from the server case build all day long. Ahhhhh! 

Wow, all my photos using a color camera remain in black and white. Need to add some color into my life. lol


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## E-curbi (Sep 19, 2019)

Ahhh, there's some color. Good morning Trident Z Royal in soothing glowing aqua-teal.

Not to be confused with a Royal with Cheese. lol


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## tabascosauz (Sep 19, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> The fan reference a few posts back, the Blacknoise Industrial fans from Germany. Way back 2016, when I was still moving enclosures with top and side panels (standard cases) into the inaudible range, I searched for a fan much lighter in mass (therefore easier to isolate) than the Sanyo Denki Industrials which can be a bit on the heavy side. The Blacknoise Industrial Series are ideal for that purpose. Same company that produces the NoiseBlocker eLoops which were/are so popular with enthusiasts.
> 
> Have a few 120x25mm and 120x38mm (SuperThicc) skus that I just love (pics below). Honestly, if Blacknoise made an industrial fan in the 140mm range I would choose the lowest rpm rated sku and mount one to both my Noctua C14S air coolers, they are that amazing with extremely high CFM/mass ratio along with quiet motors. They only come in basic black, no frills, no RGB which is fine for my builds.
> 
> ...



Aside from hating spiky Ryzen, I've always just settled for "good enough" on noise. I'm in heaven with the A12x25. Thinking back, it was a while ago when I was dealing with a screaming 280X Vapor-X and three F12s at full speed 

Was thinking about the Vardar for a while, but the A12x25 sates my gentle typhoon cravings lol


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## E-curbi (Sep 19, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Aside from hating spiky Ryzen, I've always just settled for "good enough" on noise. I'm in heaven with the A12x25. Thinking back, it was a while ago when I was dealing with a screaming 280X Vapor-X and three F12s at full speed
> 
> Was thinking about the Vardar for a while, but the A12x25 sates my gentle typhoon cravings lol



When the A12x25 is available as the A14x25 in black, I'll be all over that fan, Two Please! 

As you say, absolute inaudibility from your sitting position isn't so important in most situations. Only if you are easily distracted by or sensitive to noise. Unfortunately, I am while working. 

And no real need to approach a silent build from the silicon efficiency extreme point of view like I do. *Although yes, that is the most scientific way to begin, and will give you the best overall end results.*

------
Anytime I delve into this basic stuff most of us learn early on I have to apologize to all those enthusiasts with a strong knowledge base who already know these simple facts and principles. Yet, I still want and feel the need to help those newcomers that do not.
------

So for the newcomers:

1) Begin by simply choosing lightweight fans

150grams and less the easiest to isolate
200grams to 250grams easily isolated using a fan controller with a wide range of PWM or dc adjustment
250grams to 300grams extra silicon material may be needed and a fan controller with extra low power "boost at start" capabilities
300grams to 350grams  - Forget it, why bother? I've tried - Find another fan. 

2) Mount them with four soft silicon grommets (pics below)
3) Tune your rpms from maximum down to 75% or 50% into a range that's comfortable for you and gives you great temps, doesn't need to be inaudible.

Zalman and Noctua both offer inexpensive single-channel rheostats that can control multi fans with Y-splitters.

OR even less expensive, my first super silent build was soft grommets to mount all case fans and using about (6) of those molex direct to PSU connectors with in-line resistor voltage attenuators like 49cents to 99cents each, and still free in some of the Noctua and BeQuiet fan packaging.

Those daisy-chain molex fan cables directly off the PSU not pretty or adjustable - yet still work. 

The greatest single factor if you are just starting out building computers to reduce noise is isolating and absorbing the rotational energy produced by your case fans with soft silicon mounting grommets, instead of hard-mounting your case fans with fan screws and allowing that same noise energy to be transmitted throughout your chassis.

Then, I see enthusiasts after they've hard-mounted their case fans with fan screws adding foam padding to case panels or selecting a silent type case that restricts sound and air ventilation (the Silverstone MM01 is extremely restrictive in that regard) so they cannot hear the extra noise, which in turn usually increases your idle and load temps. I'm like WHAT??? 

Isolating and absorbing the noise energy *directly at the source* (the fan mounting) is the best way to go. Don't let the noise energy transmit from your fan mounts throughout your case. When you isolate the noise energy at the source be it fan or water pump then even an open air build with no panels or foam padding can perform way down into the inaudible range, with lovely low temperatures.

*Again, this basic info is only to help the newcomers, please don't be offended if you already OWN this knowledge base.  *


So this post is for the 6,000 to 8,000 guests that view TPU continuously everyday, yet are not signed up as members. Thanks for stopping by, hope this basic stuff helps with your new build. 

Class dismissed.  

















The best ones:





The worst ones:


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## E-curbi (Sep 19, 2019)

I'm FREE!


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## sexpot (Sep 20, 2019)

I need help deciding on the front panel for the Robin build. Let's band together and pick out some options! For the front panel, I was thinking of split reservoir and Aquaero for the 5.25" bays. The pump would then be mounted on the floor.

The alternative would be to go with a dual bay reservoir + D5 combo. The Aquaero would then be mounted somewhere in the case (most likely floor) without the front LCD.

Let's get creative and share some ideas!


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## tabascosauz (Sep 21, 2019)

sexpot said:


> I need help deciding on the front panel for the Robin build. Let's band together and pick out some options! For the front panel, I was thinking of split reservoir and Aquaero for the 5.25" bays. The pump would then be mounted on the floor.
> 
> The alternative would be to go with a dual bay reservoir + D5 combo. The Aquaero would then be mounted somewhere in the case (most likely floor) without the front LCD.
> 
> Let's get creative and share some ideas!



I'm an air kinda guy. Whatever you choose, I'm sure it'll look great!

Got my TJ08T-E and SFX-ATX bracket (I have to use the spare SFX450 for now) to build the rig with just minutes to spare before I left the house. Unfortunately, I left the house and won't be back until Sunday.  You're up first, bud.

@E-curbi If I was still running the A9x14 exhaust, I would think about doing the whole rubber grommet thing, since I have way too many of them. But I don't because it interferes with dual-fan U9S and D9L. I can try it on the TJ08 with the F12 and eventually the A14, though! Maybe it's best to use screws with the M1 since it travels around town so much.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 21, 2019)

sexpot said:


> I need help deciding on the front panel for the Robin build. Let's band together and pick out some options! For the front panel, I was thinking of split reservoir and Aquaero for the 5.25" bays. The pump would then be mounted on the floor.
> 
> The alternative would be to go with a dual bay reservoir + D5 combo. The Aquaero would then be mounted somewhere in the case (most likely floor) without the front LCD.
> 
> Let's get creative and share some ideas!



I ran that front panel setup/config a few years back.* Aquaero 6 XT and EK single bay res*. The single bays can be difficult to prime along with your pump, had to fill the loop with the build on it's side, no big deal really but I had very little gravity feeding the pump from reservoir when the build was upright and air would build inside the res easily, and as AquaSuite became SO MUCH BETTER, I really couldn't find a reason to want to glance over at the Aquaero 6 dot-matrix front panel display, when all the information displayed there was also directly in front of me and so much more within the AquaSuite software. Plus the additional pain and clutter of routing all the Aquaero fan and thermal and pump cables to the front of the case. I moved both of my Aquaero 6 XTs into the LT (no display) configuration and never looked back.

I say mount the A6 inside at a convenient location for cabling even on the floor at a distance from the pump or low profile industrial strength velcro or double-sided gorilla tape it to a bare chassis wall if you have any hanging around, always nice to fill up those bare spaces.

I always liked the look of the Koolance dual bay reservoirs, but haven't shopped reservoirs in a long time, so what do I know? 

...a few retro pics when my 2ndary build had a short water loop. 1x120mm, 1x240mm, 1x360mm rads and Blacknoise Industrial 120mm superfans with velcro/sorbothane soft-mounts to rad. No fan screws, no long radiator screws. No screws whatsoever lololol.* Industrial Velcro layered with Sorbothane mat or double-sided gorilla tape works perfectly to soft-mount fans to rads.* Ya just stick em on, press and hold. Didn't have any of the (6) 120mm fans lose their grip over the 26months the loop was in service Sept 2016 to Nov 2018 - I should patent that sh*t.


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## E-curbi (Sep 21, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> I'm an air kinda guy. Whatever you choose, I'm sure it'll look great!
> 
> Got my TJ08T-E and SFX-ATX bracket (I have to use the spare SFX450 for now) to build the rig with just minutes to spare before I left the house. Unfortunately, I left the house and won't be back until Sunday.  You're up first, bud.
> 
> @E-curbi If I was still running the A9x14 exhaust, I would think about doing the whole rubber grommet thing, since I have way too many of them. But I don't because it interferes with dual-fan U9S and D9L. I can try it on the TJ08 with the F12 and eventually the A14, though! Maybe it's best to use screws with the M1 since it travels around town so much.



Yup, definitely everything I said above about soft mounting fans was for computers that stay-at-home. *Not those world travelers like your M1 rig. lol *

Grabbed this cool UPS yesterday, and packing away the super big server one. LOVE this new 1000VA APC UPS so much and the price so nice - well comparatively speaking. I have the Smart UPS Online SRT 1000VA double-conversion (pic this page above post) server-grade blah blah blah rack mount and the lowest price I could find back in 2018 was $589, ouch. This more home office desktop friendly 1000VA UPS was only $148 and it's so sweet. Superquiet, no fan no noise, no auditory output at all from the unit except a few obnoxious alarms that can easily be disabled.

Not certain why I waited so long, adore having a constant all day long "current load in WATTS" displayed 2inches left of monitor while working. Not so sure I'm going back to the super-expensive supertall superheavy server unit at this point.

Sometimes my love for the pro-gear simply gets the best of me, when the home office stuffs is just as sweet or better. 

As far as which VA level to choose. Yea, only $11dollar more and Amazon offers the 1350VA and another $30 gets you the 1500VA. The 1500VA has a working fan installed, so something to consider if you're going for library quiet office space which is always my goal.

Any higher VA over your "calculated needs" is only going to pump more waste heat into your office space even when running on clean AC, more so when the battery kicks in for brief periods brown-outs, spikes, click offs, resets, whatever - we have all that going on in my area.  So yea, I wasn't trying to save $11 by going with the 1000VA, lol. I know my maximum VA needed when both PCs are running and the un-rushed time necessary for a proper manual shut down of all gear is around 700VA. So this 1000VA unit lends a bit of room to add a few more components in the future, but more importantly the 1000VA will pump less waste heat into my office all day than the 1350VA or the 1500VA, which is important since even with the air conditioning running it's still fighting against a very warm outdoor environment vs living up north and it's 55F outside working with the windows open - I wish I had that working space - trying to get there with our next move.

Also, the display is nice and big, looks like OLED, much clearer brighter sharper greatly improved over the older dot-matrix of past APC UPS units.

Pardon the crazy cables in the pics everywhere, I'm still in the process of recabling from the old UPS along with (2) separate APC surge strips. 

Last pic is proximity to monitor. About one inch away from lower left corner, so ideal when working a quick glance so much comfort to know the working load in watts at any time, maybe it's a nerd thing, but I loves it so much.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 21, 2019)

More retro pics, this time the Batman build early on. For anyone who loves the raw messy build from parts pics. 

SEE, the entire chassis is all gunmetal, I wasn't joking. Only the front cover, front switch plate, and front accessory cover plates are black.

Everyone who visits the office seems to think it's the black computer.  *Common non-enthusiast muggles,* they don't understand the details.

And it's a completely different CaseLabs chassis than the other all-gunmetal test bench other side of the office. Picked the first up as a complete test bench in 2015, the other was a Mercury S8S converted to test bench in 2017.


Ok, now I'm gonna shut the heck up for awhile and let someone else say something.










And to the guy who told me I had zero imagination available to me when building the Batman.

I'm like _"Where else are you gonna see an 8-bay SSD hotswap mobile server rack with a D5 water pump mounted directly above it and a 120mm radiator with cooling fan mounted directly above that?"_

*That's like (3) tiers of layered imagination bro.* 

Just kidding, it's purely technical ... I know.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 21, 2019)

Windows sleep mode - system still pulling 1watt!


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 21, 2019)

Maybe it's just me, but I think the (2) Supremes in the front row are much cuter than Diana, especially the Supreme on the right, yum. 

...the thread has gone far off the rails and we don't even care. 

Wait a minute, there is no we. Where is everyone? I'm the only one here.  It's Twilight Zone Year One Episode One ... bare recognition within a barren landscape of overpromised technology, that left me in this spaceship way too long.


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## Tomgang (Sep 21, 2019)

Always interesting to see what projects others has on there mind and it looks good.

Cant wait to bring my own project in to life. Most hardware is planned but still missing somethings like what case i shut get. Cant deside if i shut put in all in my old Antec Twelve Hundred case or bay a new full tower case for it. I cant wait to try something new now after being on X58/LGA 1366 for over 10 years now.

For my project pc. The following hardware is for sure to come in it and i will try to op hold a dark theme as well. You know as in join the darkside.

Ryzen 9 3950X cooled by a Noctua NH-D15 AM4 version with black chromax covers over the cooler.
ASUS X570 Crosshair VIII Hero motherboard
G.Skill TridentZ Neo DDR4-3600 C14 32GB kit
A new black PSU

Later hardware to ad:
Samsung 980 EVO or PRO NVMe M.2 SSD at maybe 1 TB for OS and the most used games as i hope this SSD will have PCIe gen 4 support.
RTX 3080 or RTX 3080 TI.
Bigger HDD for storage (already have a 2 TB sata SSD for games alone, so game ssd that shut not be needed bigger for now)
Maybe a new case that is not yet desidet.

Until Ryzen 9 3950X finally comes out as it has been delayed from september to november release.

Until then i can only show my current finished project of my old X58 setup (see spec in the profile). There is some ghetto mod and some experiments on cooling/maximized airflow.


http://imgur.com/a/NLahrg9


Some benchmark of the old hag. For hardware that came out over 10 years ago, i think it´s pretty desent scores. Of cause the newer GPU helps out.


			Asus P6X58D PREMIUM Performance Results - UserBenchmark
		



http://imgur.com/a/uHjbbMg


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## E-curbi (Sep 21, 2019)

Tomgang said:


> Always interesting to see what projects others has on there mind and it looks good.
> 
> Cant wait to bring my own project in to life. Most hardware is planned but still missing somethings like what case i shut get. Cant deside if i shut put in all in my old Antec Twelve Hundred case or bay a new full tower case for it. I cant wait to try something new now after being on X58/LGA 1366 for over 10 years now.
> 
> ...




I say we all help Tom out with his project. 

What do you say Sexpotbro? What do you say tabascolovebro? What do you say mostly silent Tek Tip Triple X?


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (Sep 21, 2019)

Tomgang said:


> Cant wait to bring my own project in to life.


The fun of PCs ; ) my main system is a never-ending project that I keep saying it'll be done but there's always something else that pops up on the list to buy


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## E-curbi (Sep 21, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> The fun of PCs ; ) my main system is a never-ending project that I keep saying it'll be done but there's always something else that pops up on the list to buy



I know man, most hobbies, nothing changes very much over 20years, try ice fishing lol, but computer tech whoa, constantly updated speed and efficiencies.

Although still not fast enough for most of us. 

There's nothing wrong with ice fishing by the way, I'm planning an igloo shack up north to rent for a couple of. 

Not sure if Colorado is far enough away from the hurricanes, maybe North Dakota.


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## tabascosauz (Sep 21, 2019)

I really need to stop procrastinating and just go out to buy a 1500W sinewave UPS. Too many brownouts and blackouts; the SF600 is strong, but it's been three years of this shit constantly happening.

@E-curbi I was in from the moment I saw those brown fans.   Ol' Beastie is a bit like something out of a defence or aerospace application in that durability and reliability comes before pure performance and aesthetics, but I always love seeing a good side project. You know, one where one goes balls to the wall, no holds barred.


----------



## Tomgang (Sep 21, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> The fun of PCs ; ) my main system is a never-ending project that I keep saying it'll be done but there's always something else that pops up on the list to buy



I have done a lot of project with X58 over the years, like getting true NVMe M.2 SSD to work on X58, a powerful GPU, Windows 10 on X58, swapping from first gen X58 mobo/I7 920 to second gen X58 mobo/I7 980X and go from 4 core CPU to a 6 core CPU, overclock every thing out of CPU/GPU, replacing all case/CPU cooler fans and convert it all from 3 PIN to 4 PIN PWM control via software and fan curves. Pushing the system to its apselute max just before crashing. I litterly has cramp every thing out of X58 now i can think of and besides it can no longer provide the performance i want from it and that is lag free gaming with FPS not lower than 60 FPS.

There is no other route now for me now than to replace X58. It has been fun 10 years with X58, but even i have to admit now that X58 best days are over.


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## E-curbi (Sep 21, 2019)

Shave soap of the day is The Beach by Phoenix Artisan Accoutrements CK6 formulation.

*Originally inspired by Kramer from Seinfeld *attempting to sell his idea of coming home from the beach scent to Calvin Klein in the fictional series.

La Mer


----------



## sexpot (Sep 22, 2019)

Small update, I received some rads today for Robin! Again, there was initial troubles sourcing the 120mm rad because the new revision would clash with the 180mm rad. Alphacool updated their rads from full copper to brass for the end tanks. A lot of issues with the copper end tanks because people were over tightening the fittings and stripping the threads. With the updated brass tanks, newer rads now come with the blue Alphacool logo. The 180mm rads were not updated I assume due to their low volume of sales.

Anyways, after calling a few vendors, I finally found one that had stock of the older style full copper rads. Now both my rads will have the copper logo's matching. It would have been an eye sore to have both copper and blue logos of the same company haha.

Matching goodness!   












Naughty blue


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## E-curbi (Sep 22, 2019)

Yea sexpot, I'm still using the same 10foot roll of Velcro Industrial Strength low-profile from 3years ago, it's a better choice for your Aquaero 6 than double-sided Gorilla tape since you may wish to reposition the component while building. The Gorilla tape is slightly stronger, yet more permanent. Used some the other day for the James Bond external storage USB hub/switch mounting (details and pics a few pages back in this thread) to the underside of my computer desk.

Only a 2.5inchx1inch strip of Gorilla tape is supporting:

1) 4-port metal housing USB hub
2) the power and common data cable
3) (3) USB cables from (3) individual external drives

Gorilla double-sided is much better for permanent mounts vs something you may want to move later on like your Aquaero 6.

Here's a pic, have about 5feet of the Velcro leftover, Gorilla tape in the foreground.

The low-profile will allow for less play less wiggle and it looks nicer than the really thick Velcro. Pic below, the Aquaero 6 mounting to the internal accessory plate Mercury S8. As you know, those (4) screws are only mounting the black passive heatsink to the PCB, no holes cut in the chassis it's a pure Velcro mount. And the mounting looks Super-Clean!  Can you see any fuzzy Velcro fibers sticking out from behind? Nope. 

Right now, both my A6s are Velcro'd to the S8 bottom panels, the floor lol of the chassis on both test benches, it doesn't look as sophisticated maybe as a chassis wall mounting but super-easy access for big hands. lol

Also, I trimmed off all the display pins from both my Aquaero 6's with wire cutters so they would lay flat, something that is irreversible I'm afraid. My A6's can never connect to a front display ever again and I'm fine with that. I mean, where is the Aquero 7 with an OLED display anyway? Aquaero 6 launched way back in 2013, wow cannot believe AquaComputer has not updated yet. The Quadro seems ok, but still love the heavy duty Aquaero 6 much more. 6years on both of mine, no issues, they both still perform as they did on day one. AquaComputer makes some amazing gear.

Oh, one last thing. All my AquaSuite free licenses with components ran out in May this year. I had to pay $10 to AquaComputer to license the AquaSuite X software for the Batman build, geez.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 22, 2019)

Amazon delivers on Sundays. The Seasonic PSU AC cable came up short routed to the new APC UPS, had to order a 3ft extender. Just matched the specs on the Seasonic cable 16AWG 13AMP, $7. Always some little item you need to pick up when getting your desktop setup just the way you want it. 

Read up on extension cords and they say to choose the shortest length possible to get the job done, something about resistance with longer AC power cords and I've had enough unusual power issues with the Z390 Dark boards since January, so didn't want to take any chances on another poorly grounded issue or cable resistance issue. Maybe not the Z390 Dark motherboard's fault??? idk. It's just when you get a new motherboard and your surge strip just happens to go bad at the same exact time? Your first best guess when troubleshooting is the new motherboard is most likely the issue, and not a surge protector/power strip that has worked fine for 2years, especially when you cannot even flash a bios to completion on three different onboard bios chips.

Just my bad luck. 

Thankfully, EVGA sent out the 2nd replacement board and although it has some very quirky power characteristics itself when you blue screen/fail attempt a new CPU OC, it always returns to normal operation, the 2nd Z390 Dark has been absolutely golden, no issues at all.

And the Z390 Dark black Safe-Boot button is magnificent. Gets you right back into your bios after a failed attempt with saved last successful OC settings there to greet you.


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## sexpot (Sep 22, 2019)

I'm still undecided on the res/pump setup. I need to get components in the case to better visualize where to route everything. If I put the Aquaero on the base, then I need to factor in the pump + Aquaero molex power cables. If I squeeze them into the dual 5.25" bays, then I can hide the cables uptop and they'll be in close proximity. The only issue I have is that the single bay res would need to utilize a DDC pump. Not my favorite in terms of noise. D5 would be my preference as they're super reliable, quiet and run cooler.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 23, 2019)

Note to self: never attempt to use an SFX PSU in anything other than an SFF case.






I couldn't find my NMB2 brackets from my D9L, so I canceled the return on the C14S. It does fit much better on both orientations than on my Aorus, thanks to the socket placement. Plus, the U12A isn't available anywhere except Newegg and costs a goddamn $130, more than the D15, so......

Feels kinda weird to be listing two rigs again; it's been a couple of years.


----------



## E-curbi (Sep 23, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Note to self: never attempt to use an SFX PSU in anything other than an SFF case.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Woohoo, TJ08-E Titanium Goodness! 

That's a sharp color bro!

Do you have at least 3/4in clearance between the C14S fan and the side panel when closed? Yikes! 

More pics, more pics - we want more pics.


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## tabascosauz (Sep 23, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> Woohoo, TJ08-E Titanium Goodness!
> 
> That's a sharp color bro!
> 
> ...



Yeah, I've got at least a healthy 1" of clearance between the A14 and the side panel. Things are pretty messy because I need some velcro for the 850 EVO, and I probably won't keep the SFX for long. Everything works like a charm, even had an extra 10 licence I didn't know I had. 4c/8t Haswell is really getting long in the tooth though, and the old Gigabyte BIOS feels almost like I went back 10 years.



Kinda disappointed in AP181, honestly. The sleeve bearing sounds super scratchy for some reason and the slow setting is next to useless. I'll probably put up better pics in my thread once I swap it for an A14, put in a ATX PSU (likely Seasonic), and clean things up. The F12 is grommeted but there might not be room in the front A14 for them. 

The C14S is very capable. I have a 4-phase Vcore with unheatsinked 4C06 hi and lo, so the downward airflow helps.

雨上がりの空 - sky after the rain, for a number of reasons haha. To most others it's just a nondescript computer without a discrete GPU, but the stuff that's inside mean a lot to me.


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## E-curbi (Sep 23, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Yeah, I've got at least a healthy 1" of clearance between the A14 and the side panel. Things are pretty messy because I need some velcro for the 850 EVO, and I probably won't keep the SFX for long. Everything works like a charm, even had an extra 10 licence I didn't know I had. 4c/8t Haswell is really getting long in the tooth though, and the old Gigabyte BIOS feels almost like I went back 10 years.
> 
> View attachment 132504
> 
> ...



I had an AP181 purchased separately not with a case way back when they were super popular. I tried isolating it with every kind of rubber grommet in the known universe. Back then Noctua only offered the brown ones and they were not very soft like the current Noctua grommets, tried about five different grommet types/styles and nothing I had available was enough to absorb the massive amount of noise energy generated from the super-heavy Air Penetrator 180mm. Have no idea what material Silverstone is using but the fan blades and especially the fan frame material is super-dense super-heavy - I got nowhere. Inaudibility was out of the question and even a comfortable level of auditory output was far from possible. Such an extremely heavy fan mounted vertical is going to remain noisy even at low rpms. Maybe if you mount it horizontal like I'm able to with the Batman build and the Noctua Industrial 140mm on top of the C14S and place a great deal of noise absorbing material beneath it? But then why bother, when there are so many other fan options out there and available? Sheesh I gave up, *my AP181 remained in my parts drawer unused* for about 3years then I just gave it away to a friend who was building with a warning for his ears.

Remember my isolation numbers one thread page back, the overall mass in grams of various fans I've attempted to move to silent/inaudible over the years last page this thread?

150grams and less the easiest to isolate
200grams to 250grams easily isolated using a fan controller with a wide range of PWM or dc adjustment
250grams to 300grams extra silicon material may be needed and a fan controller with extra low power "boost at start" capabilities
300grams to 350grams - Forget it, why bother? I've tried - Find another fan. 

Now look at the overall mass in grams of the AP181:


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## E-curbi (Sep 23, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Yeah, I've got at least a healthy 1" of clearance between the A14 and the side panel. Things are pretty messy because I need some velcro for the 850 EVO, and I probably won't keep the SFX for long. Everything works like a charm, even had an extra 10 licence I didn't know I had. 4c/8t Haswell is really getting long in the tooth though, and the old Gigabyte BIOS feels almost like I went back 10 years.
> 
> View attachment 132504
> 
> ...



*Sky after the rain is a nice name bro.* I'm certain it carries a very important meaning for you. 

Yea, my 6700K was feeling really long on the tooth lol, but not so noticeable really until you upgrade and can feel the difference A to B side by side with an 8700K.

So happy the C14S is working out for you and you found a good use at some capacity for the cooler. I think they're just amazing for the price, and not sure just why they cool as well as they do with only a single bank of fins. Maybe the extremely long exposed vapor tubes give them that extra performance edge? 

----------

Since we're on the subject and anyone interested, these three brands of silicon soft grommets are the best I've found - if you want to go that extra mile.

Akasa, Nexus, and Acousti - left, right, and bottom.

My noise dampening mini-tool box. lol


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## E-curbi (Sep 23, 2019)

Living in a warm tropical climate in the summertime, it's nice to wake up on a Monday morning to air-cooled thermals like this with a daily 5.4Ghz all cores all threads ddr4 running @ 4400Mhz 17-17-17-34 pushing the 8086K's IMC to it's very limits.

If I lived up north, geez these CPU thermals on air would be idling in the low 20Cs.


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## tabascosauz (Sep 23, 2019)

Finally, that makes us C14S-bros.  

The B450I BIOS really makes me appreciate the software fan controls we have at our disposal in 2019. The H97N literally has 1 adjustable option for the CPU and System fans, and it sucks. But you know what the H97N has that the B450I doesn't, despite the latter being 4 years newer? Dual BIOS.

The C14S is pretty amazing. Stock 4.4GHz on untweaked voltage and it just doesn't break a sweat. Probably the massive heatpipes; maybe Noctua uses better quality ones on the C14S just because they have to be bent like they do? Can't say the same for the 4790K though - downloading my massive Dropbox in the background and it's stumbling over itself when I try to do just about anything at the same time; all threads are being loaded and it's just running out of steam. The 3700X has spoiled me.

Speaking of which, F42c BIOS with 1.0.0.3ABBA AGESA is out. Should I take the risk and update? Remember, AMD boards are cheap and don't come with Dual BIOS from 5 year old Intel boards


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## E-curbi (Sep 23, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Finally, that makes us C14S-bros.
> 
> The B450I BIOS really makes me appreciate the software fan controls we have at our disposal in 2019. The H97N literally has 1 adjustable option for the CPU and System fans, and it sucks. But you know what the H97N has that the B450I doesn't, despite the latter being 4 years newer? Dual BIOS.
> 
> ...



Yup Noctua bros all the way! 

Glad you are happy with the C14S. LOVE both of mine, and the only real characteristic that sets it apart from other Noctua coolers besides the C-shape down-firing form factor is the extremely LONG phase-change heatpipes, maybe that's the magic right there.

There's only 6 functional heatpipes, the 7th one in the center is SOLID not a heatpipe at all, it's used only for structural support.

So worth $74.50 imho. The successor was rumored to launch Q4 this year before Christmas, but I heard Noctua is releasing the blacked-out coolers for Q4, so highly unlikely they will launch two-four new skus, as you know - *they is slow at moving prototypes to market. *lol

*If you swap out the Silverstone stock AP-181 for a Noctua 140mm Industrial, hold both in your hands and the difference in weight will most likely surprise you. *


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## E-curbi (Sep 23, 2019)

Also comparing the stats of the Silverstone AP-181 to the Noctua Industrial NF-A14 2000rpm PWM

Silverstone AP-181:
Airflow 107.27 CFM
Static Pressure 2.18 mm H20
Rated Power 5.4 watts

Noctua NF-A14 2000rpm PWM:
Airflow 182.5m3/h = 107.42 CFM
Static Pressure 4.18 mm H₂O
Max Power 2.16 watts






						AP181
					

Traditional computer fans are made to expel air, so for years, airflow was the most important rating that determines cooling efficiency as most fans are used as exhausts.  However, with positive pressure gaining importance in computer cooling technology, SilverStone created Air Penetrator fan...




					www.silverstonetek.com
				












						NF-A14 industrialPPC-2000 PWM
					

Conceived for industrial heavy duty applications that require enhanced cooling performance and advanced ingress protection, the NF-A14 industrialPPC (Protected Performance Cooling) is a ruggedised high-speed version of the award-winning retail model. Thanks to the outstanding aerodynamic...




					noctua.at
				




a bit shocking. 

The AP-181 was probably one of the highest airflow greatest performing fans in 2010/2011.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 23, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> Yup Noctua bros all the way!
> 
> Glad you are happy with the C14S. LOVE both of mine, and the only real characteristic that sets it apart from other Noctua coolers besides the C-shape down-firing form factor is the extremely LONG phase-change heatpipes, maybe that's the magic right there.
> 
> ...



AGESA is the firmware for Ryzen, a little like microcode for Intel. AMD pushes out updates every now and then, which usually aren't worth your time, but the Ryzen 3000s have been such a collective shit show that they actually matter now. ABBA is purported to give better boost, smarter boost, and lower voltages all at the same time, but single BIOS chip tho......and all my saved profiles too......

Got a IPC-2000 on order. I don't mind airflow noise, since I have my DT770s on whenever I'm in front of the screen, but I just couldn't stand the noisy bearing on the AP181. And the lack of PWM.

I guess the heatpipes being longer, thus more area contacting the fin stack and the air, helps the C14S. It could also be that most reviewers utilize an open air bench, much like Batman, which provides infinite intake air to the A14 and naturally removes a lot of the heat blown downwards. The D15/U14S/U12A would require good case fans to feed it directly along its airflow path to utilize its full potential. Also, while the C14S has a thin stack, it's probably the largest in terms of l x w, because the U14S is not any taller than a 120mm tower and D15 has cutouts.


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## sexpot (Sep 23, 2019)

This thread updates so fast, my email notification cannot keep up haha.


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## E-curbi (Sep 23, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> *I guess the heatpipes being longer, thus more area contacting the fin stack and the air, helps the C14S. It could also be that most reviewers utilize an open air bench, much like Batman, which provides infinite intake air to the A14 and naturally removes a lot of the heat blown downwards. The D15/U14S/U12A would require good case fans to feed it directly along its airflow path to utilize its full potential. Also, while the C14S has a thin stack, it's probably the largest in terms of l x w, because the U14S is not any taller than a 120mm tower and D15 has cutouts.*



Good point, well stated. I didn't think of it precisely from that most prudent aspect of reason and judicious comprehensibility. 

Until now.


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## sexpot (Sep 24, 2019)

Looky what the cat dragged in


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## E-curbi (Sep 24, 2019)

sexpot said:


> Looky what the cat dragged in


So lucky, our cat only drags home Dell proprietary boards. 

No more joking around. That M11Gene is probably the highest performing mATX board manufactured so far.

Your 4400Mhz Trident Z modules are going to love that board.

Congratulations! 


...silly cat.


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## E-curbi (Sep 24, 2019)

Buildzoid spends 23minutes letting us know that higher memory frequencies, tighter timings, and increased ram voltage applied in bios - increases your IMC power draw in watts.

Gee, who wudda thunk it? 

That's one reason I get so happy with super-cold 8086K idle temps in the Summer (previous thread page) at 5400Mhz 6C12T since I know the 4400Mhz 17-17-17-34 1.45volts settings on the ddr4 is causing the 8086K's IMC to draw more watts and produce more heat vs memory at stock, even with CPU SpeedStep enabled, you still need to apply more voltage to CPU and memory in bios.

What's interesting in the video is The Zoid found out percent increase in IMC power draw is:

Applied ddr4 voltage in bios > Memory Frequency > Memory Timings

With changes in memory timings increasing IMC power draw the very least.

So you can tighten up your timings all day long and it's only like a 2watt delta - good to know, thank's Buildzoid. 

Also, from my limited lol personal experience stay away from any ddr4 voltages over 1.5v on ambient cooling since it really doesn't help achieve any higher memory clock speeds. The Siliconlottery guy has told me this like a million times, even though the Z390 Dark's bios labels memory voltage of 1.55v and 1.6v still in the ambient non-LN2 non-extreme overclocking zone. Buildzoid and the SL guy are correct, I tried 1.6v with memory, doesn't get you anywhere, not on ambient air, AIO, or I would assume ambient water. LN2 cooling yes, the Z390 Dark's bios goes up to 2.0volts for memory overclocking using liquid nitrogen, but I'll never use those settings.


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (Sep 24, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> ddr4 latency overview





E-curbi said:


> Cascade Lake X


Not going to happen, Cascade Lake-X is running essentially the same memory design based on the mesh architecture, latency isn't going to drop much on the mesh bus (50ns~ at best like most of skylake-x?) and cascade lake-x is a complete fail in my opinion, same went for the 9XXX CPUs which were just soldered 7XXX cpus.


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## E-curbi (Sep 24, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> Not going to happen, Cascade Lake-X is running essentially the same memory design based on the mesh architecture, latency isn't going to drop much on the mesh bus (50ns~ at best like most of skylake-x?) and cascade lake-x is a complete fail in my opinion, same went for the 9XXX CPUs which were just soldered 7XXX cpus.



It's funny you mention that, the SL dood stopped binning Skylake X CPUs a few many months ago since they weren't selling well. Also looks like he won't be binning the Cascade X processors at all.

Makes me wonder why Asus ROG offers their best looking most feature-rich motherboards only for HEDT when so many more enthusiasts are interested in Mainstream - Performance platforms, from both AMD and Intel.

Really hoping for some beautiful Comet Lake Maximus XII boards much like the Crossfire VIII X570 series in about 90days or so.

I fell in love with the Rampage VI Extreme never bought it because of the slower MESH interface, but if I don't ever get to experience a PCIe shroud aesthetic cover plate, man I'm gonna pass from this world unfulfilled. 

That PCIe cover shroud - so much drool!


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## Deleted member 178884 (Sep 24, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> Makes me wonder why Asus ROG offers their best looking most feature-rich motherboards only for HEDT when so many more enthusiasts are interested in Mainstream - Performance platforms, from both AMD and Intel.


It's mostly due to the fact that mainstream platforms run fewer lanes and features in general, which leads to fewer options for high end storage / pci based storage / multi gpu etc which doesn't determine mainstream as super high end. Not having the lanes is the major issue however as it doesn't allow for most stuff to be used on a mainstream platform without dropping GPU lanes - which leads to less features being on boards which puts them "lower end" than HEDT.
HEDT is only really better than mainstream in games in ultra high resolution cases where you'll run two GPUs at 8k or something crazy with two rtx titans (x16/x16 rather than x8/x8 on mainstream) but overall the high end focus lies on the HEDT platform.
On a side note though, 4.7 + HT leads to some excellent gaming performance overall : P


http://imgur.com/fpDiScb


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## E-curbi (Sep 24, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> It's mostly due to the fact that mainstream platforms run fewer lanes and features in general, which leads to fewer options for high end storage / pci based storage / multi gpu etc which doesn't determine mainstream as super high end. Not having the lanes is the major issue however as it doesn't allow for most stuff to be used on a mainstream platform without dropping GPU lanes - which leads to less features being on boards which puts them "lower end" than HEDT.



We probably won’t get more CPU lanes from Intel until Sapphire Falls 2021. 

Still, newcomers or anyone who utilize mostly single and slightly-threaded apps and workloads most of the time should realize HEDT is misleading terminology by Intel.

The HEDT platform will slow your work and play way down if you’re spending most of your time running single and slightly-threaded applications.


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## Deleted member 178884 (Sep 24, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> Still, newcomers or anyone who utilize mostly single and slightly-threaded apps and workloads most of the time should realize HEDT is misleading terminology by Intel.
> 
> The HEDT platform will slow your work and play way down if you’re spending most of your time running single and slightly-threaded applications.


Anything purely single threaded mainstream will win (240hz in particular) though if we're talking about the absolute highest end possible that's the only place HEDT makes sense, the 8086k would've been my second choice over this 7980xe, but I found the CPU cheap at £700 so it made more sense to me, seemingly I have a really nice bin too so once I get better cooling I'll be able to push it quite far.


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## E-curbi (Sep 24, 2019)

I think the various platforms should be titled by the use-case they serve best either multi-thread or single slightly-threaded and terms like high-end mid-range mainstream and confusing marketing BS - should be left out of it.

Platform nomenclature should follow the primary function of the platform, and not some internal marketing dept’s idea of quality to the consumer.

Since for some of us, Intel’s HEDT is truly the low-end for getting work done.


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## tabascosauz (Sep 24, 2019)

sexpotbro's Gene got me forgetting my bank account, again. C8 Impact and X570I Strix be looking mighty fine......maybe the I/O shield would even allow me to get a second C14S......


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## E-curbi (Sep 24, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> sexpotbro's Gene got me forgetting my bank account, again. C8 Impact and X570I Strix be looking mighty fine......maybe the I/O shield would even allow me to get a second C14S......



Sexpot working his magic. 

He once positively influenced me to buy a Rampage V Edition 10 and a high-binned 6800K $600 and $480, respectively.

(Ok, the high-binned part was my idea)

Be careful of his talents, you’ve been warned.


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## sexpot (Sep 25, 2019)

With the release of the AMD C8 Impact, I'm very hopefuly for an Intel based Maximus Impact maybe next gen? The Maximus VIII Impact was a true ITX board legend!

On second note, the plumber was out today and fixed our water closet! We went to install the washer set and found out the drain hose was too short, boohoo. I need to make a run to CAD Tire this evening and get an extension kit.


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## E-curbi (Sep 25, 2019)

SIX FREE Batman Games, woooo, how could Bruce Wayne miss out on this? 

Only thing is, need to create an account at EPIC Games to get the games, so there's that little tidbit. 


...I'm outside trimming the bushes, geez, where is Alfred when you need him?


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## E-curbi (Sep 25, 2019)

Looks pretty good in 2560x1440 for free.


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## Deleted member 178884 (Sep 25, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> I think the various platforms should be titled by the use-case they serve best either multi-thread or single slightly-threaded and terms like high-end mid-range mainstream and confusing marketing BS - should be left out of it.
> 
> Platform nomenclature should follow the primary function of the platform, and not some internal marketing dept’s idea of quality to the consumer.
> 
> Since for some of us, Intel’s HEDT is truly the low-end for getting work done.


I guess so, though I can see why intel has laid it out the way they have.


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## E-curbi (Sep 25, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> I guess so, though I can see why intel has laid it out the way they have.



I tried Intel's HEDT for only about 15months, and only a 6-core 6800K high binned to 4.3Ghz not delidded, since Broadwell E was soldered. It was X99 and maybe X299 is much different, but it felt very sluggish and slow to respond from my POV. Could not get the Quad-Channel (4x8GB) memory kit to run at 3200Mhz 14CL XMP without crazy high CPU package temps at idle, like 52C 55C. Also, installed Intel's Turbo Boost Max Technology 3.0 software and custom added my work apps and that did help lower the latency-increase responsiveness a small bit. Even went so far to grab my first Optane 900P PCIe SSD it was November 2017, and that also helped increase responsiveness at low QD-1, QD-2.

Also, 6800K Broadwell E still used Intel's very fast Ring Bus, when I began reading about the Mesh Bus for X299 at PCPerspective.com and other tech sites, the extremely high latency with core to core intercommunication, kinda killed my plans for a Rampage VI Extreme and 7000 Series CPU and subsequently a water loop.

Ended up simply SELLING the Rampage V Edition 10 X99 and 6800K and replaced with a Maximus X Apex motherboard and 8700K. The difference in latency/responsiveness was overwhelming.

Don't get me wrong, I got lots of work completed nicely using the X99 HEDT platform during that period, still much happier with Z370 and Z390.

Have never tried the Mesh Bus, only extrapolating from my X99 memory/experience. But from reading, it would most likely be an instant return to vender - don't believe it's for me.









						Intel® Turbo Boost Max Technology 3.0
					

Discover the benefits of Intel® Turbo Boost Max Technology 3.0 for critical workloads, learn about related technologies, and shop for products.




					www.intel.com
				




-------

From the small number of folks I've talked with it just doesn't seem X299 has been very popular since the 7000 Series CPUs.

We all have different experiences, mine with HEDT simply wasn't so great. Although the R5E10 motherboard was a beautiful work of art from Asus ROG. So wish I could get something that gorgeous for the Batman and still have amazing speed and responsiveness. 

Also, creating your own custom Turbo Boost Technology (screenshot below) in bios works so much better than Intel's software, just sayin'


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## tabascosauz (Sep 25, 2019)

I was under the impression that X99 was just a shitty, half-baked product, especially the memory controller. I watched the rollout with great interest, primarily due to the X99E-ITX, but knew in the back of my mind that the first crack at DDR4 was going to have problems.

I've been playing with the idea of getting an X570 board and dropping a 3400G into the Aorus. Still too attached to the 4790K to do it.


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## E-curbi (Sep 25, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> I was under the impression that X99 was just a shitty, half-baked product, especially the memory controller. I watched the rollout with great interest, primarily due to the X99E-ITX, but knew in the back of my mind that the first crack at DDR4 was going to have problems.
> 
> *I've been playing with the idea of getting an X570 board *and dropping a 3400G into the Aorus. Still too attached to the 4790K to do it.



Yea, I should've done more research into the Broadwell E's IMC and X99. I had no idea 3200/14 was going to present an extreme heat issue for the CPU. The Noctua C14S (my 1st at that time) actually did an ok job with 55C package temps, but I didn't want to run with those thermals all day long, ended up running a much reduced ddr4 speed and CL value for the lifetime of the platform. 

This Asus ROG AMD X570 C8Impact board looks amazing: 

No idea what it costs though. ROG time-staggered the launch. Save the best for last? lol


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## Deleted member 178884 (Sep 25, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> I was under the impression that X99 was just a shitty, half-baked product, especially the memory controller. I watched the rollout with great interest, primarily due to the X99E-ITX, but knew in the back of my mind that the first crack at DDR4 was going to have problems.


This.
Bear in mind X99 was the *first* ddr4 based platform to exist, my RAM was originally designed for X99 and overclocks appallingly bad maxing out at about 2666 @ 14-16-16-35 CR2 1.33V....... X99 was overrated in my opinion and all the talk trying to claim 6950x is better than a 7900x for example is all nonsense.


E-curbi said:


> From the small number of folks I've talked with it just doesn't seem X299 has been very popular since the 7000 Series CPUs.


Mostly due to cost and the fact AMD has a pretty good multi thread CPUs now too.


E-curbi said:


> , when I began reading about the Mesh Bus for X299 at PCPerspective.com and other tech sites, the extremely high latency with core to core intercommunication, kinda killed my plans for a Rampage VI Extreme and 7000 Series CPU and subsequently a water loop.


Well you do have to bear in mind that mesh generally runs 2.7ghz at stock, or at least that's what my 7980xe does at stock and you need to get the CPU as cool as possible to push the mesh really far, I know someone running a 9980XE + X299 Omega with 5ghz / 3.2ghz mesh and he's doing 221cb~ single thread which is quite an improvement over stock - nothing super mind blowing but a CPU of this core count it's insane. The mesh bus generally does have higher latency but it's a small price to pay for the scalability of core counts and given these CPUs OC well, it doesn't matter too much to me at least.
Another thing to bear in mind is that ring runs at 3.5ghz (at least on my 6600k it does) which is quite a clock speed advantage over slug stock mesh (2.7ghz) and generally these CPUs can do up to 3.3ghz mesh. And of course it's not going to beat a 8086K in single threaded workloads but for me at least this CPU delivers both excellent gaming and productivity performance across the board (more to come when I push it further and sort out better cooling)


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## E-curbi (Sep 25, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> This.
> Bear in mind X99 was the *first* ddr4 based platform to exist, my RAM was originally designed for X99 and overclocks appallingly bad maxing out at about 2666 @ 14-16-16-35 CR2 1.33V....... X99 was overrated in my opinion and all the talk trying to claim 6950x is better than a 7900x for example is all nonsense.
> 
> Mostly due to cost and the fact AMD has a pretty good multi thread CPUs now too.
> ...



Yes that 221cb is extremely impressive for a High Core Count CPU. Another issue for me with X299 even using an Omega board (that's a beautiful board ) with the huge spread out efficient VRM section, is managing the heat. I'd like to maintain an inaudible work rig, and Coffee Lake delidded with liquid metal Conductonaut TIM and the A14 fan at 700rpm allows for that with very sweet all day long temps even at high CPU clock speeds.

If I was running multi-threaded apps all day that would be a different story altogether. Single-Slightly threaded workload is easier to manage thermally.


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## Deleted member 178884 (Sep 25, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> Another issue for me with X299 even using an Omega board (that's a beautiful board ) with the huge spread out efficient VRM section, is managing the heat. I'd like to maintain an inaudible work rig


Yeah I love the VRMs on my board they stay nice and cool:



System has been running WCG for the past 5hrs or so now and the VRM fans sit at 5-6k rpm at most it seems (HS fan = VRM fan).
Though yeah noise is definitely a pain though you won't be running a silent and high clocked HEDT cpu, the guy running 5ghz is using a eiszeit chiller 2000, I'm going to have a shot at cranking down the noise levels once I upgrade my cooling solution and I'll let you know how that gets along : P


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## tabascosauz (Sep 25, 2019)

@E-curbi you have to remember that while 5856MT/s would be outrageously high on Intel, it's meaningless on Ryzen because uclk:mclk:IF decouples from 1:1 after 3800 on good boards and even lower on shitty boards. With 2:1 IF you can go as high freq as you want on DDR4 and a 3200C14 will still prove to be quicker.

I'm looking at the Strix because it's a much better practical choice. I just can't see any reason to get the C8I:

- Impact has a ridiculous I/O area with not one but two tiny fans
- Impact I/O is even closer to the socket than Strix, possibly interfering with C14S heatpipes
- Gigabyte still has the supreme power delivery setup in X570, 8 x mindboggling TDA21472 true phase on IR35201
- Strix has the same setup as the C8I, 4x2+2 TDA21472 on Asus' rebranded IR35201 as the Impact
- Asus is making the fan do double duty on PCH and VRM having moved X570 under the shroud, so there's no reason a single fan on the Strix shouldn't be enough to cool the most efficient Powerstages known to man
- Still not thrilled about DTX, regardless of the necessity of it

TDAs are 70A max. The IR3556s in my Aorus are really good 50A PowIRs but being only 4 phase undoubled, they run a little warm. The 3553s, 3555s and 3556s have been a staple of high end OC boards for generations, but TDAs are on a whole other level entirely.

I love Gigabyte as they are pretty much the masters of power delivery, but the socket placement on the Aorus ITX boards rules out the C14S.


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## E-curbi (Sep 25, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> Yeah I love the VRMs on my board they stay nice and cool:
> View attachment 132657
> System has been running WCG for the past 5hrs or so now and the VRM fans sit at 5-6k rpm at most it seems (HS fan = VRM fan).
> Though yeah noise is definitely a pain* though you won't be running a silent and high clocked HEDT cpu*, the guy running 5ghz is using a eiszeit chiller 2000, I'm going to have a shot at cranking down the noise levels once I upgrade my cooling solution and I'll let you know how that gets along : P



Exactly! A silent and high-clocked HEDT CPU is an oxymoron. *But if you have a multi-threaded workload, that's what you need to get the job done fast. * 

IF on the other hand, your workload is single and slightly, then you can choose a different platform entirely.

EVGA calls VRM -  PWM. I have NO IDEA why. And I have no idea what System SYS temp is referring to on the motherboard. But here's some HWiNFO64 Z390 Dark sensor data at my normal daily work bios profile.

VRM=PWM=29C
PCH=34C

Every component air-cooled.

Z390 platform temps like this I can run with all day long in a hot climate with 5400Mhz CPU and 4400Mhz ddr4, inaudible. Cannot do that with X299 HEDT.

Not sure why my ddr4 voltage is at 1.500v, don't remember doing that. Usually run it at 1.450v. Oh I know, the LUUMI DAILY OC profile preset in bios I used it as a template and it runs ddr4 at that voltage, just need to adjust it.

These are idle - just above idle values, not a stress test or anything. Pretty much work just above idle 90% of the time, with only brief time periods of super-stress on the CPU.  

I'm addicted to ZIPPY keystrokes, what can I say?


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## E-curbi (Sep 25, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> @E-curbi you have to remember that while 5856MT/s would be outrageously high on Intel, it's meaningless on Ryzen because uclk:mclk:IF decouples from 1:1 after 3800 on good boards and even lower on shitty boards. With 2:1 IF you can go as high freq as you want on DDR4 and a 3200C14 will still prove to be quicker.
> 
> I'm looking at the Strix because it's a much better practical choice. I just can't see any reason to get the C8I:
> 
> ...



Yea I know bro, that 5856Mhz is only an advertisement.

There's a Buildzoid Ryzen memory analysis video a few pages back, 3800Mhz got him 64ns best latency for Ryzen 3rd gen. Still, a beautiful ITX X570 ROG motherboard if you are considering a new ITX motherboard for your Ryzen CPU.


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## Deleted member 178884 (Sep 25, 2019)

Also forgot to mention one of the major design changes from broadwell to skylake:


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## E-curbi (Sep 25, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> Also forgot to mention one of the major design changes from broadwell to skylake:
> View attachment 132665



So Intel could add more cores and keep up with AMD, no doubt. 

Broadwell - E was maxed at 8core? or 10core?

My only hope is more CPU lanes and increased IPC, not certain that will happen with Comet Lake or Rocket Lake, although clock speeds are rumored to increase.

An IPC increase may have to wait until Sapphire Falls 2021. And AMD is catching up very quickly. Who knows, maybe I'll grab a Ryzen platform in 2020 if they work out the memory latency thing.

Although 64ns AMD vs 34ns Intel is a big gap to fill.

Not to mention, an AIDA 64 latency of 20.3ns lol - The Hurricane Whisperer!


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## tabascosauz (Sep 26, 2019)

On the eve of X99, I was extremely excited about the X99E-ITX and what it meant for both SFF and HEDT. 4 years later, precisely no further groundbreaking change has taken place, and ASRock substituted SO-DIMMs into its X299E-ITX. Honestly, I can see why.

My plans originally included a move to HEDT after the conclusion of my studies (when I'd no longer have to fly my desktop around), specifically eyeing either the S3 or X2M. Obviously, huge wrench got tossed into those works, and Caselabs went out of business, so now I'll just continue to be invested in SFF as there aren't any high quality cases that make it worth my while to put up with going bigger again.

Personally, I think HEDT should stick to being big. Obviously, it takes big core count increases to push MSDT innovation, which AMD is currently doing, but that doesn't change the fact that a 3950X (and a 3900X, depending on how you look at it) really doesn't belong in a tiny case. The SFF circlejerk loves perpetuating the belief that "anything is possible", but it gets to a point where everything is so precariously balanced/squeezed/forced in there that the moment you try to use SFF as it's supposed to be used (on the move, go anywhere, because there would be very few reasons to spend extra money, blood and sweat to build SFF)........well, you'd better make sure you never have to troubleshoot/diagnose/fix absolutely anything in there.

And there's the 3950X. AMD had better be real aggressive in its boost limiting factors, or a lot of 4C10Ns are going to burn. HEDT from both sides prides itself on its stout power delivery, designed to specifically support high core counts and power draw of Skylake-X or TR; I can just see the legions of $100 AM4 mATX boards lining up to light on fire with a 3950X.

Yes, custom water can tame just about anything, but how many people out of the entire market really go to the hassle of putting a loop together, even if they can afford one? Everybody and their mother has an AIO these days.

Case in point: one of the first 3900X builds on PCPartPicker has a Noctua L9a sitting atop a 3900X without clock restrictions or voltage tweaks.

A L9a.

Not an L9x65 (not that a L9x65 would be much consolation). A L9a. That one puny cooler that is, in the entire product stack, the only one too small to support Secufirm2.

That little heatsink is incapable of keeping a stock 4c/8t below 90°C in stress tests. Yet, here it is, screaming for help atop a 12c/24t with a feisty boost that constantly makes idle/light load temps look like a stress test is running, even on a 120mm/140mm tower heatsink.

The justification, according to the owner, is that the computer is only responsible for only does light editing work.

I really don't know where I'm going with this. I blame the Русский Стандарт. Something to think about, I guess.


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## E-curbi (Sep 26, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> On the eve of X99, I was extremely excited about the X99E-ITX and what it meant for both SFF and HEDT. 4 years later, precisely no further groundbreaking change has taken place, and ASRock substituted SO-DIMMs into its X299E-ITX. Honestly, I can see why.
> 
> My plans originally included a move to HEDT after the conclusion of my studies (when I'd no longer have to fly my desktop around), specifically eyeing either the S3 or X2M. Obviously, huge wrench got tossed into those works, and Caselabs went out of business, so now I'll just continue to be invested in SFF as there aren't any high quality cases that make it worth my while to put up with going bigger again.
> 
> ...



I don't think there will be a Rampage VII (7) Omega Impact or Gene for HEDT Cascade Lake, but you never know. 

Had my eye on another CaseLabs S8S or Bullet BH4 for our 3year old in pink/white like CaseLabs created for Linus' little girl, buuuuut, CL out of business.

Just happy I have (2) basic test benches and lots of spare parts if something breaks or gets damaged.


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## E-curbi (Sep 26, 2019)

sexpotbro, tabascobro, Tek Tip Triple X, you guys if you want keep the thread going with your builds if you like, I'll tune in and see what you're up to but I won't be posting or building or updating until we relocate FAR AWAY from these nerve-wracking hurricanes, thinking late December, to early March.

Should have some new components to chat about at that time.

Enjoy yourselves!

Peace and Love 





ok, it's not funny, but it's kinda funny.


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## E-curbi (Sep 26, 2019)

I'm absolutely certain PT is the National Weather Service's acronym for Post-Traumatic. 

As in Post Traumatic Storm Syndrome


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## tabascosauz (Sep 27, 2019)

Good luck with your move.

I'll be putting some stuff on my own thread in the next little while, but since sexpot also got a TJ08, thought I'd leave this here. I got the A14 iPPC today. It's pleasantly quiet - except at 1500rpm, where it becomes a cross between a GE90 and an exhaust-braking 6.7 B-series. No more AP181 with its maracas bearing. The problem with my old H97N-WIFI is that the SYS fan header is a little unpredictable, and sometimes the fans will just be twitching and not moving at idle. Getting the PWM speed up quickly solves the problem, but it's annoying nonetheless.



I'm not going to lie, the TJ08 hasn't really been blowing my socks off. There's zero space above the motherboard to manage Y-splitters and the 4/8-pin, the front panel is cheap and plasticky and hard to take off, and the alignment on the 5.25" bay covers is really, really pepega. So far, I haven't managed to find some semblance of symmetry for the bay covers. I wasn't expecting an M1, but for the same price of a SG08, I thought it not too unreasonable to ask at least the same "attitude" in build quality, if not the solid aluminium block that is the SG08 front panel. The nicest part of the TJ08 is the side panels.

Note to self: don't ever buy iPPC fans again if intending to mount them with screws. Regular Noctua fans are made of a fibreglass material, and iPPC sports an even harder variant. Truly a diabolical experience.

Did I mention that the 4790K draws 185W under P95 Smallest at 4.2GHz? "88W TDP". Amazing, really, just not in a good way. 3700X manages barely 105W supporting double the threads, at the same clocks, with similar temperatures under a much less capable U9S. It's crazy how far we've come.


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## sexpot (Sep 27, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Good luck with your move. *Same, catch you on the flip side Bruceypoo!*
> 
> 
> I'm not going to lie, the TJ08 hasn't really been blowing my socks off. There's zero space above the motherboard to manage Y-splitters and the 4/8-pin, the front panel is cheap and plasticky and hard to take off, and the alignment on the 5.25" bay covers is really, really pepega. So far, I haven't managed to find some semblance of symmetry for the bay covers. I wasn't expecting an M1, but for the same price of a SG08, I thought it not too unreasonable to ask at least the same "attitude" in build quality, if not the solid aluminium block that is the SG08 front panel. The nicest part of the TJ08 is the side panels.



Ah yes, the TJ08 does show it's age in terms of build quality when compared to other chassis in similar price point from today's standards. The screws can easily strip the covers when you take them on/off so be careful when doing so! I'm planning to connect as much as I can to the Aquaero with the help of extensions so hopefully I can nip and  tuck cables out of sight. It's a tight space for sure, which is why I opt to watercool. Fortunately for me, I don't need to silence the rig to Bruce's level so I can afford some compromises in component choices to be more practical instead of function, whoo hoo.


Edit - Picked up a 120mm fan for the rear radiator.


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## sexpot (Oct 1, 2019)

Whoa what the heck happened. I received some notifications on my email of thread updates then come to check and it's just my post.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 1, 2019)

sexpot said:


> Whoa what the heck happened. I received some notifications on my email of thread updates then come to check and it's just my post.


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## E-curbi (Oct 1, 2019)

sexpot said:


> Whoa what the heck happened. I received some notifications on my email of thread updates then come to check and it's just my post.



Your mail notification must be messed up bro.

Nobody’s posted here for ages.


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## sexpot (Oct 1, 2019)

Twilight zone ooo eee oooh.


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## E-curbi (Oct 2, 2019)

Tabascobro. Amazon US has the Strix X570-I Gaming motherboard just listed at $259.99USD. That's a sweet price. Yet not available until October 21st - meaning it's not yet in stock.

Newegg US has no listing yet.

It's a nice looking little board.

I'd wait out the 30-day return window and as long as everything checks out "known good" on the board remove the L-shaped heatsink cover plate and silicon isolate the two small fans. From diagrams it appears they function as X570 chipset and VRM cooling fans. Fans that tiny don't weigh anything at all. Place them on a kitchen scale, like 50grams-75grams so very easily to isolate.

*It's too bad super-small fans have such a bad reputation for extremely loud operation simply because they're hard-mounted to their substrate. *

These soft rubber grommets below could be used to set up a "floating bolt or floating screw" mounting design or take a blade to them and use as flat silicon washers, depending on the structure-anatomy of the fans that arrives in the box and your mounting substrate, and of course the mass and rated rpm of the fans would determine just how much noise absorption material would be needed.

I love little mods like this. To me that's what building a custom machine is all about. 30minutes and .69cents improves your overall computing experience exponentially. 

...at least if you love silent to inaudible machines.





Two small fans, each a different size


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## tabascosauz (Oct 2, 2019)

$259USD is pretty expensive, since I can get the X570I Aorus for $300CAD. But then again, I can't use Gigabyte boards with the C14S......U9S has actually been a happy feller though. I might try my luck with a 32GB G.skill kit soon; if that works, I don't need a new board.

I just blew my hardware budget for this month on a RTX 2060S FE last night  paid a slight premium for the FE, but I don't really mind. There's no other card out there that ticks all the options, 1 x 8-pin (so no 2070S or 5700), short (Zotac Mini cools worse than FE and has dodgy warranty), and 3-year warranty (EVGA has no short cards). My 1070 is getting to the point where it needs to be in the TJ08 to "bend" it back the other way, and it's just now out of warranty after 3 years.

Gonna have pics up soon on my thread to show the U9S and 2060S.


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## E-curbi (Oct 2, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> $259USD is pretty expensive, since I can get the X570I Aorus for $300CAD. But then again, I can't use Gigabyte boards with the C14S......U9S has actually been a happy feller though. I might try my luck with a 32GB G.skill kit soon; if that works, I don't need a new board.
> 
> I just blew my hardware budget for this month on a RTX 2060S FE last night  paid a slight premium for the FE, but I don't really mind. There's no other card out there that ticks all the options, 1 x 8-pin (so no 2070S or 5700), short (Zotac Mini cools worse than FE and has dodgy warranty), and 3-year warranty (EVGA has no short cards). My 1070 is getting to the point where it needs to be in the TJ08 to "bend" it back the other way, and it's just now out of warranty after 3 years.
> 
> Gonna have pics up soon on my thread to show the U9S and 2060S.



I’ve always gone for E-ATX boards, the least costly was the Apex X at $349, so from that pov $259 seems like a relatively good deal.

Ask Tek Tip XXX what it feels like to pay over $600 for a Rampage board, ouch, I did that only once.

Asus really can create a beautiful motherboard when they want to. 

Anyhoo, whichever X570 ITX board you end up choosing, should be easy to silence the chipset fan.

Someone should produce a noise absorption material delivered from a tube that doubles as an adhesive like epoxy for super-custom applications. (lightbulb moment) 

Oh wait, wonder if RTV Silicon in a tube has noise absorption properties, fans so small and lightweight - might work just fine. Woooooo


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## tabascosauz (Oct 2, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> I’ve always gone for E-ATX boards, the least costly was the Apex X at $349, so from that pov $259 seems like a relatively good deal.
> 
> Ask Tek Tip XXX what it feels like to pay over $600 for a Rampage board, ouch, I did that only once.
> 
> ...



To hell with the board, I'll ask the man how I can be chad enough to drop $2000 on a CPU    seriously, I've never brought myself to spend more than $470 CAD on one!

I've always been used to $150-225 high end ITX boards so the recent wave of $300 boards is a little new to me. 

If the B450 feels like running 2x16GB 3200/16, then we good. If it doesn't, then I'll be deciding between X570 and B550, between which the deciding factor will be whether I want TDA21472s, and more NVMe.


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## E-curbi (Oct 2, 2019)

ITX SFF Custom Brown Air - Single and Slightly Threaded - HEDT Multithreaded HCC, we all took different paths, yet LOVE our tech all the same. 

———

In bed all day because it’s Raft Day.

Gf likes to pretend the bed is a giant rescue raft afloat on the high seas with a rationed food and water supply she grabs from the kitchen, air conditioning and a 65in Samsung tv and we’re only allowed to leave the survival raft briefly to pee - rules of the raft.

When I questioned the practicality of such a scenario, she firmly believes *all survival rafts in the future will come equipped with 65in Samsung televisions. *

I only hope we get spotted by a Coast Guard helicopter before the sun goes down.


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## sexpot (Oct 3, 2019)

Going to throw back to previous builds as I'm waiting for parts. Mobile alert, lotsa pics be coming!  

*2012* - My first venture into watercooling, guess what case?









*2014* - Changeover to a Lian Li *PC-A05NB*.









*2014 v2* - Things didn't work out with Lian Li, swapped to a Corsair *350D*.













*2016* - Year of the Caselabs, *S8S *into the picture! 














*2017* - Need some parallel res action, *SMA8 *join the party.  





















*2018 *- Lian Li makes a come back with the *PC-O11*.














And that wraps up my build history. 2019 will be the year where I take it back to where it started, welcome TJ08 v2!


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## E-curbi (Oct 3, 2019)

@sexpot

You know my favorite is the Mercury S8S, not too small, not too big - just right! 

Small enough to live comfortably on top of you desk right next to you so you can enjoy it while you work vs positioning on the floor. Big enough to house an E-ATX motherboard with a little extra breathing room left over.
Mercury S8S! 

Yea, I've seen SMA8s on top of enthusiasts desktops, just looks crazy big to me, I like a low and wide overall profile (vs a tall and narrow) for some strange reason - gives me a feeling of stability or comfort vs impending disaster, I guess.

One guy in the CaseLabs forum had a really tall CL tower case and (3) pedestals mounted underneath one on top of the other, like 6.5feet tall and 10inches wide, and I told him "If you breathe too hard and that case falls over, it's gonna kill your dog" 

I only moved my S8S to S8 test bench for this Batman work build, to eliminate the number of fans needed most of which were functioning only to push air in and out of an enclosure. Was looking at 7-8 fans with radiators. 

And although multiple fans look gorgeous in a still photograph, living day to day with a work PC is a much different animal altogether, I just had to find a way to eliminate as much noise as possible down to the bare cooling minimum, and eventually that worked out ok by sacrificing aesthetics. lol 

Build On Sexpot!


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## tabascosauz (Oct 3, 2019)

Same. I love the look of the Mercurys. The squat, fat look is a signature of the Caselabs look.

@sexpot you just knew that milk-coloured coolant is my kryptonite, huh.  But seriously, I could never pull off a custom loop. I hate the idea that by the time I'm done brainstorming/planning/waiting for parts/setting it up, the hardware is already obsolete. That's why I love looking at other people's work


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## E-curbi (Oct 3, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Same. I love the look of the Mercurys. The squat, fat look is a signature of the Caselabs look.
> 
> @sexpot *you just knew that milk-coloured coolant is my kryptonite, huh.*  But seriously, I could never pull off a custom loop. I hate the idea that by the time I'm done brainstorming/planning/waiting for parts/setting it up, the hardware is already obsolete. That's why I love looking at other people's work


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## E-curbi (Oct 3, 2019)

Amazon US has no stock yet, but is pricing the ROG AMD X570 Crosshair VIII Impact at $429.

Wow, that's a tidy sum of money for an ITX board. Still (2) tiny fans to deal with/work with modify, no problem there. Love the Mini-DTX form factor and the fact ROG seems to always be innovating or at least trying to. Avoid mention the Z390 Maximus XI Series huge VRM disappointment along with VRM phase marketing disparities, along with NO North American availability of the M11A or M11G, at least since then the X570 ROG board selection is outstanding. Hoping for a Maximus XII Z490 Series with extremely powerful VRM sections arriving in January.

On Single Thread Performance:

No one knows if Intel will be able to find some new tweaking methodology performance boost within the SAME SAME Skylake 14(+) architecture to increase single-thread performance coinciding with the Comet Lake launch.

The 8700K/8086K Coffee Lake chips from 2017 and 2018 cannot be expected to uphold the single-thread front position forever.

The Comet Lake 10-core certainly will not be taking that lead position.

The Comet Lake 8-core maybe it can overtake the 8700K/8068K if greater efficiency and clock speeds increase as rumored to do so.

The Comet Lake 6-core would from a purely technical standpoint seems to be the prime candidate to push clock speeds higher by 100Mhz or 200Mhz, allowing a few of the higher binning CPUs to run stable for instance utilizing Siliconlottery's vast battery of testing at 5.4Ghz or 5.5Ghz, moving daily OCs into a comfortable 5.6Ghz 6c12t or 5.7Ghz 6c6t??? Unfortunately, Intel is not going to concentrate their energies or marketing strategies or internal performance binning with the 6-core chips. Internally, Intel does not want the lesser core CPUs to outperform the higher core CPUs at any level or any metric, even if lesser cores means technically higher clock speeds are more easily attainable. Same old marketing Product-Stacked by price and relevance bs we've always had to deal with. 

So the 8-core Comet Lake 10700K if not soldered seems to be the greatest hope for a single-core performance improvement.

That raises another quandary, will Intel solder or paste? Yea and Geez another deep breath going nowhere. If they solder again and the 8-core Comet hits that thermal wall just as hard as the 9900K, even the 9900K 5.1Ghz high-bins, we can forget any single-thread improvement. Wait until Rocket Lake? Sapphire Falls? That's a head-shaker. I may be holding onto my 8086K for a very long time. 

------

I think the Comet Lake Processor "supposedly fake" chart below was indeed produced and leaked directly by Intel to get the information out there and remain relevant during that all-eyes-on-AMD snapshot in time and yet intentionally made to appear rogue and fake as if it was not created by Intel internally, those slight alterations from norm, reverse of order, and lack of pixelation - so they could if need be claim any degree of deniability they felt necessary at a later date.

The Intel psychologists working within their marketing department are well paid and far from stupid.

Although sometimes it seems that way. 


And if Intel cannot give us any single thread low latency CPU boosts until 2021, at least at minimal effort they could *REPACKAGE the Optane 905P PCIe SSD* cool-blue LED with overclocked controller as lower capacity 280GB and 480GB drives, more easily attainable at a much lower cost than where the $1200 and $2200 905P drives stand today. Come on Intel, the 900P 280GB capacity is 2years old next month November and so far you've given us no replacement future except after the 2nd Gen Optane Enterprise Data-Center PCIe SSDs finally move to client in late 2021. That's FOUR years without updating the 900P? 

Just give us the soothing blue 905P lighting, slightly higher speeds, and slightly higher thermal efficiency at a lower cost that we can afford.

...only my humble opinion.


Soapbox Surfing at it's finest. 


*Not meant to confuse. Single-thread performance per CPU above* is considering manually overclocked CPUs*, not the single-thread performance values at stock speeds with core boost.


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## sexpot (Oct 3, 2019)

Thanks for the kudos everyone!

I noticed a reoccurring theme is that I tend to go back to previous brands as I test new builds. Hopefully, that means a future S8S can make a return. I agree with bruceypoo that it's the best case overall. Whether it be air or fully decked out watercooling, it offers great expandability! (Is that even a word?!)

The horizontal feature is my favorite, there is no GPU sagging even if you load it up with 7x single slot GPUs! A true work horse of a case should you fancy some Octane rendering! Fingers crossed for a Caselabs return in the near future.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 3, 2019)

@E-curbi It just occured to me that the C8I's M.2 combo riser card may not be usable with the C14S. So unless one can make do with no NVMe (heresy!!), the Strix is the way to go.


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## E-curbi (Oct 3, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> @E-curbi It just occurred to me that the C8I's M.2 combo riser card may not be usable with the C14S. So unless one can make do with no NVMe (heresy!!), the Strix is the way to go.



Hmmm, wonder if the C14S's built-in physical offset would offset that issue physically.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 3, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> Hmmm, wonder if the C14S's built-in physical offset would offset that issue physically.
> 
> 
> View attachment 133228



It doesn't seem like it would be a problem if the A14 is on top, like you would have it. But I would need it below the sink for 115mm height, at which point it most likely interferes. The offset is to guarantee PCIe slot placement, which is not an issue as DTX's x16 slot is still in the same place, but the M.2 daughterboard is located quite a bit above the x16.

It's too hard to judge the height of the daughterboard from pictures alone. All I can tell is that it's taller than the already massive I/O area, but have no point of reference to a Trident Z heatspreader, for example.


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## E-curbi (Oct 3, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> It doesn't seem like it would be a problem if the A14 is on top, like you would have it. But I would need it below the sink for 115mm height, at which point it most likely interferes. The offset is to guarantee PCIe slot placement, which is not an issue as DTX's x16 slot is still in the same place, but the M.2 daughterboard is located quite a bit above the x16.
> 
> It's too hard to judge the height of the daughterboard from pictures alone. All I can tell is that it's taller than the already massive I/O area, but have no point of reference to a Trident Z heatspreader, for example.



They're both good looking motherboards. Not sure what the extra $170 actually gets you with the C8Impact. I just don't follow Ryzen closely enough to know if paying more is going to get you any higher CPU or ddr4 overclocks or *lower stable voltages at same available clocks.*

The Ryzen memory latency penalty seems fixed at 3800Mhz 64ns latency and the CPU single core overclocks are higher at stock than manual OC? Is that actually true?

If those facts and values are true, then why pay $599 for an X570 Crosshair Formula, when the X570 Crosshair Hero at $359 has the same exact VRM section and capability?

Aesthetics maybe I guess.

Same argument could be made for the Crossfire VIII Impact vs Stryx X570 mini-ITX Gaming. 

The C8Impact is just a very out-there forward-thinking design, whether it actually gets you any additional performance? I just don't know.

Here's a C8I breakdown The Zoid posted about 10days ago, goes over many overclocking features, but if the CPUs are not so capable, then some features are maybe only for LN2 cooling or some scenario other than ambient? Other than it being a very cool board layout, I don't know if it's worth that extra money, has to be a personal choice.

I do know very intimately that higher-binned Intel processors and motherboards with improved VRM sections Do Allow you to run much lower voltage at every stable clock speed available to the CPU - lower voltage = less heat to manage.

I just don't know if the same is true with Ryzen, and if paying more for a X570 performance motherboard assists with achieving those lower voltage bios profiles. Although it does on the Intel side of things.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 3, 2019)

The C8I shares the exact same VRM as the Strix. 4(x2)+2 running on a IR35201 with TDA21472s. So in that sense, the extra $200+ nets you nothing in actual performance, as the heatsink setup is the same, too. Both heatpiped and share two fans with PCH.

As we all know, Ryzen doesn't OC at all this generation, so the C8I has no advantage there. When it comes to undervolting boost clocks, when the chip runs into its lower Vcore limits, it'll let you know, and the choice of board doesn't really matter (unless it's a X570 Pro4 we're talking about, then we're really in the dankest of VRM sewers then). The two boards are going to have the same BIOS, with the same IR35201 behind the scenes, so Load Line Calibration capabilities should be the same.

Yes, boost generally gets you farther than manual clocks, to a point. Manual 4.4GHz on P95, for example, will probably be unsustainable due to the sheer amount of power draw and heat output, as manual OCs don't abide by power and current limitations. The boost will allow you to hit 4.4GHz in benchmarks that need it, and scale back when you hit power limits. PBO on/off then decides how long the chip will hold boost clocks before scaling back, but you don't need it to hit boost.

Judging from how even the 3700X behaves when the proverbial gloves come off, I suspect that *very, very few* people will have the cooling prowess necessary to hold a 3900X and 3950X to maximum boost clock, at manual clock settings. The TDA21472s will be having a great time, but that's not to say that the 3950X or one's ears will be feeling the same way.

So yeah, I really don't know. Maybe if one just _really_ couldn't live without the side-mounted 8-pin EPS, which is nice to have but not nearly a necessity. Or if one just _really _wanted to have both M.2s on the front of the board, despite both of them being PCIe 4.0 x4.

Isn't it kind of the same deal with the Strix-E and the Hero, though? ASUS is giving us a lot of choices, don't get me wrong, but having a cheaper board that gets the expensive board's feature set kind of undermines their business model.


Oh, also, got the 2060S today. It's definitely an Apple-esque product in terms of build quality. ACX3.0 was good, but these FE cards blow everything out of the water.


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## E-curbi (Oct 3, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> *The C8I shares the exact same VRM as the Strix. 4(x2)+2 running on a IR35201 with TDA21472s.* So in that sense, the extra $200+ nets you nothing in actual performance, as the heatsink setup is the same, too. Both heatpiped and share two fans with PCH.
> 
> As we all know, Ryzen doesn't OC at all this generation, so the C8I has no advantage there. When it comes to undervolting boost clocks, when the chip runs into its lower Vcore limits, it'll let you know, and the choice of board doesn't really matter (unless it's a X570 Pro4 we're talking about, then we're really in the dankest of VRM sewers then). The two boards are going to have the same BIOS, with the same IR35201 behind the scenes, so Load Line Calibration capabilities should be the same.
> 
> ...



Same VRM sections, then it's a no brainer - grab the Strix and save the $170.

Yea someone at Asus believes they need a motherboard product stack targeted at every $25 price point between $125 and $600, it's a bit crazy. 

Also makes it extremely difficult to choose a new motherboard, and that's only one brand. Try doing the same comparison with multiple boards within multiple product lines within multiple manufacturers.

Sheesh. 

I'm kinda glad I found 2dimm slot single-thread boards and feel right at home with them. Not very many E-ATX 2dimm slot motherboard choices for me to consider or get confused over.

Just take my $500 every 2-3years. lol 

---------

Also, congratulations on the 2060 Super FE. Looks really nice man, nice packaging also. *Is the rear I/O plate really blacked-out?* *Or does that only appear in the photos/renders?*


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## tabascosauz (Oct 3, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> Same VRM sections, then it's a no brainer - grab the Strix and save the $170.
> 
> Yea someone at Asus believes they need a motherboard product stack targeted at every $25 price point between $125 and $600, it's a bit crazy.
> 
> ...



That's what you can do when you're market leader    throw money into pointless products that no one needed. I'm surprised it took me this long to realize that the Z390 only had two DIMMs and the entire socket and power delivery area is rotated 90 degrees. I guess when you think about it, you only want 2 DIMMs for overclocking anyways.

Yep, the I/O plate is matte black. Blends in very well with the back of the M1. It may not be priced for value, but I think the 2060 FE cooler is an example of a cooler done right. The FEs are cards that I would be proud to put on top of a Stinger board, aside a U12S Chromax and white Trident Z.


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## sexpot (Oct 10, 2019)

Hey guys, I'm going to be on hiatus for a bit. Good news is that ASUS now sells the Apex XI and Gene XI in North America. Head over to Newegg to pick one up or see if your local retailer can order one in for you.

Bruce check your pm for a surprise!


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## E-curbi (Oct 10, 2019)

sexpot said:


> Hey guys, I'm going to be on hiatus for a bit. *Good news is that ASUS now sells the Apex XI* *and Gene XI in North America*.* Head over to Newegg to pick one up* or see if your local retailer can order one in for you.
> 
> *Bruce check your pm for a surprise!*



Is there a newborn baby in my mailbox? lolol Did you name him Sir Bruceypoo McPooperface the 3rd? That can be his nickname at 4am diaper changing time. 

-----

About that Maximus XI Apex:

I do know the Siliconlottery.com guy tested a small number of his 9900K CPUs that exceeded his battery of stability testing at 5.1Ghz using the Maximus XI Hero boards and an AIO, a few (small number) of those same 5.1Ghz binned 9900K CPUs exceeded the same stability tests at 5.3Ghz using the Maximus XI Apex board and a custom water loop. Obviously, much improved VRM sections on the M11Apex boards vs the M11Hero.

Same should be true for the 9900KS processors launching this month October or next month November.

Yet for the SL guy to find those 5.3Ghz (with H20) 9900KS superchips he needs time to test a good sample size, maybe the first day he bins and sells the 9900KS he finds one? OR it may take 30days - 60days to find that small percentage that look REALLY GOOD during the standardized Hero XI testing and *Double-Bin* those few again with an Apex XI board.

9900KS super-high silicon efficient cherry-binned 5.3Ghz + Maximus XI Apex = match made in heaven.  *Just Add Water. lolol *

...and some fast ddr4 sticks woohoo!

Now that the Maximus XI Apex is FINALLY available with a 3-year warranty in the US and Canada. Oh Happy Day!

And at only $379 at Newegg, woohoo sweet price Asus.

Have a strong feeling Asus ROG finally made the Apex 11 available in North America *because the CFL Refresh 9900KS is launching this month*. OH well, better (VERY) late, than never.


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## E-curbi (Oct 11, 2019)

OH MY Goodness! I just saw the MOST ADORABLE baby in my PM mailbox in my entire life! 

Sexpot and his wife just had a healthy newborn BOY and his name is Aiden, which is a much better name than Brucey McPoopyface the 3rd. 

Hey Aiden, do you like older women? We have a 3year old. She's extremely funny and all her friends tell her she doesn't look a day over 8months.  lololol


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## sexpot (Oct 11, 2019)

E-curbi said:


> OH MY Goodness! I just saw the MOST ADORABLE baby boy in my entire life!
> 
> Sexpot and his wife just had a healthy newborn BOY and his name is Aiden, which is a much better name than Brucey McPoopyface the 3rd.
> 
> Hey Aiden, do you like older women? We have a 3year old. She's extremely funny and all her friends tell her she doesn't look a day over 8months.  lololol




 Let's revisit in 18 years, haha.


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## E-curbi (Oct 11, 2019)

Someone asked me this question in email yesterday, so I thought I'd answer him here since the early stuff always helps newcomers get started. 

The question was the same one we've all heard, which PSU wattage rating to buy for my new system and how many drives can I run?


My answer from long ago, still seems semi-accurate:  


Try using one of the free PSU calculators online to estimate your total system watts.

Here's a few to check out:

https://seasonic.com/wattage-calculator#
http://www.coolermaster.com/power-supply-calculator/
https://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator
https://www.bequiet.com/en/psucalculator
http://powersupplycalculator.net/

As far as calculating watts used per type of drive:

Search for the spec-data sheet for the HDDs drives brand and series and capacity you intend to use. Like this Seagate Barracuda PRO sheet below. It will tell you idle watts and load (operating) watts for each capacity of the drive series.

Do you plan on RAIDing the drives?

Will all your HDDs be running at once in a RAID array? or only a single drive, while the others remain idle?

https://www.seagate.com/www-content/...07US-en_US.pdf

A Seagate 12TB HDD uses 8watts at load according to the spec sheet. If you plan on using (10) HDDs at load all running simultaneously, that's still only 80watts.


My Samsung 860 Pro SATA SSDs use only 2watts at load, I have (4) total = 8watts

https://s3.ap-northeast-2.amazonaws....eet_Rev1_1.pdf

NVMe drives use a bit more power about 4 to 6watts per drive at load:

https://s3.ap-northeast-2.amazonaws....et_Rev.1.0.pdf

Intel Optane AIC PCIe SSDs can use up to 14watts at load:

https://www.mouser.com/pdfdocs/Optan...sDatasheet.pdf


1) *Calculating your total system watts from datasheets for all your individual components is going to be more accurate than using any of the PSU calculators listed above.*

2) Although, I don't remember the last time I used either method, since I haven't built an entire system from all new components umm - ever. I've always used "simple incremental upgrades over time" since 2009 when I transferred parts from an old Dell and built my first custom PC with a heatpipe cooled Zalman PSU and CoolerMaster Cosmos 1000, never an entire build at once. Who can afford that? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Simply adding one or two parts (mobo and CPU at the most)* to a system I already know the watts used at idle and various loads from reading a Kill A Watt meter early on and* *the last 5years APC battery backups that provide watts used as a digital display menu selection*, so I already have an established watts used value and only need to add/change for the additional component(s), but I'm weird*



*.

3) A really good idea would be to build your basic system: platform only CPU mobo memory and O/S boot drive, CPU cooler either AIO pump and fans or good air, the fans alone, just the basics so you can boot, *using your current PSU*, build it on the mobo box nice and clean and use one of these inexpensive Kill A Watt meters from Amazon or anywhere for about $18. Then you can establish your baseline number "system watts needed" at idle and various load scenarios, and can decide from there how many HDDs SSDs you really want in your system, and all other additional components pwr consumption, *then decide which PSU is right for your new build*. You can keep using the Kill A Watt meter for a single build, it will tell you the change in idle and gaming watts, working watts, O/S drive reformatting watts (writing to the drive) etc when you make additional upgrades, a nice tool to have around. (pic below)

4) If you're using your rig for work and find you really like knowing your watts pulled from the wall and want a battery backup as well from thunderstorms, brownouts, sometimes our power here will click off/on momentarily for no apparent reason, I don't want to lose my work, so I got into APC battery backup units about 5years ago, about 2013. The better models offer "Watts Used" for every device you have plugged into the unit, I've had three of the APC units, both with (6) or (8) power ports or outlets. I have both my rigs and a single display plugged into the APC battery backup, so to get an accurate reading of watts from either rig, I turn off the rig I'm not using, turn off the 27inch display and what's (watts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) left is power consumption of the system/rig I'm reading from the APC digital display. They can be costly, my first unit was an APC SMT 750VA about $275 (pic below). They last forever though, I never even changed the battery in that unit, kept it for 4.5years, sold it for $100, so total cost of ownership was $175 over 4.5years. Now I'm using the APC BR1000MS 1000VA about $148. Just make sure you choose an UPS with a pure sine wave output from battery, that's what the latest Active PFC power supplies need to continue working and for a clean and stable shutdown of your gear, if the power goes out.


It really just depends on how far you want to get into it. The Kill A Watt units work just fine, and only $18.


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