# Xvid or mpeg4?



## HiddenStupid (Nov 11, 2007)

which is higher quality? Xvid or mpeg4?

which video format is higher quality?

- xvid
- avi
- mpeg4
- mpeg
- or what?


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## JacKz5o (Nov 11, 2007)

MP4 and AVI are usually good quality. However it mainly depends on what the two files were encoded with.


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## Homeless (Nov 11, 2007)

While your question doesn't exactly make sense, I believe the answer you're looking for is XviD.  Avi is a container and mpeg4 is divx/xvid.  Mpeg is an older format that's somewhat obsolete considering the file size/quality ratio is awful.

x264 is the best quality encoder and mkv is the best container.


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## panchoman (Nov 11, 2007)

mpeg4 is dvd quality isn't it? or is that mpeg5?


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## Homeless (Nov 11, 2007)

dvd's are in mpeg2 i believe


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## panchoman (Nov 11, 2007)

mpeg2? doesn't sound right, seems too low of a number lol


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## HiddenStupid (Nov 11, 2007)

what is best format to convert to? if upload to youtube.


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## wiak (Nov 11, 2007)

Homeless said:


> While your question doesn't exactly make sense, I believe the answer you're looking for is XviD.  Avi is a container and mpeg4 is divx/xvid.  Mpeg is an older format that's somewhat obsolete considering the file size/quality ratio is awful.
> 
> x264 is the best quality encoder and mkv is the best container.



+1


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## cdawall (Nov 11, 2007)

mpeg2 is on DVDs and it wont matter what you use for youtube it converts it to flash video after you upload it anyway


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## HiddenStupid (Nov 11, 2007)

...........ok still I want to know the best quality format regardless of size.

I take game videos with fraps and it is "video file" format and it is huge file..... like for 30sec vido it is about 300mb and I cannot straight up upload it to youtube it says it the file is not valid so I had to convert it tpo other format first before uploading to youtube but anyway forget about youtube... pretend youtunbe have nothing to do with it.

Pretend I still want to convert it to the best looking image quality despite of youtube... will not upload to youtube.... but just want to convert it to the most best quality and just for making the size smaller....... which  format is the best quality?

As I see..... mpeg1 is noticible superior quality than mpeg2...... why is that? I thought the higher number the better quality?

Which format is the best quality?


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## Homeless (Nov 11, 2007)

x264 will give you the best quality and mpeg1 is not better than mpeg2

www.doom9.org for all your video needs


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## HiddenStupid (Nov 11, 2007)

Homeless said:


> x264 will give you the best quality and mpeg1 is not better than mpeg2
> 
> www.doom9.org for all your video needs



I convert two of my videos.... one with mpeg1 and the other with mpeg2..... I play both at the same time and compare..... the mpeg2 looks brighter (too bright) and the mpeg1 is sharper and deep brilliant color. just as I see/experience.

thanks for the link

edit: ummmmmmmmm ur right..... i got mix up.... mpeg2 is the one with sharper and deep brilliant color.


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## Dandel (Nov 11, 2007)

HiddenStupid said:


> which is higher quality? Xvid or mpeg4?
> 
> which video format is higher quality?
> 
> ...




ok, it's all about quality to file size ratio on this... here's a list of codecs and their relative sizes for the same quality and picture size...

example:
640x480 video at 29.97 fps with total length of 24 minutes and no artifacting.
xvid - it's about 180 mb.
AVI - this is a file type container, so it would be safe to ignore this.
X264 - around 140mb to 150mb
mpeg4 - it's a general class, look into h264 or x264.

Personally i'd go with X264 or h264, and use mediacoder to encode the videos. 

*note:*

to get the best file size and quality ratios it's trail and error, however once you get it down you'll find very few issues, i've got good results on h264 using around 700 to 800 kb/s rates.


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## HiddenStupid (Nov 11, 2007)

Dandel said:


> ok, it's all about quality to file size ratio on this... here's a list of codecs and their relative sizes for the same quality and picture size...
> 
> example:
> 640x480 video at 29.97 fps with total length of 24 minutes and no artifacting.
> ...



wow that program looks nice. it says: 

"MediaCoder is a free universal batch media transcoder"

is that mean its fully free?


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## Dandel (Nov 11, 2007)

HiddenStupid said:


> wow that program looks nice. it says:
> 
> "MediaCoder is a free universal batch media transcoder"
> 
> is that mean its fully free?



Yes, this is 100% free, it is licenced under GPL, which is an open source license.


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## Wile E (Nov 11, 2007)

Dandel said:


> ok, it's all about quality to file size ratio on this... here's a list of codecs and their relative sizes for the same quality and picture size...
> 
> example:
> 640x480 video at 29.97 fps with total length of 24 minutes and no artifacting.
> ...


Agree 100%


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## Mussels (Nov 11, 2007)

nice program - any advice o how to get my files to a set size? want to get them 700MB to fit on CD, instead of random sizes...

edit: i found a setting under "mode" which allows me to set a filesize, but as teh DVD movies come with 4 main IFO files they EACH get set to 700MB. is there an easier way, or should i do this and join them somehow, then re-encode them to 700MB again? I just dont like the idea of encoding it so many times.


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## Dandel (Nov 11, 2007)

it's your personal preference, because repeated encodes are key to getting things working right... you should be able to encode a 2 hour long movie down to a single 800mb file with x824... anyways the trail and error bit is mainly so you learn the options, because i personally don't want blocks in the video playback i do.


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## HiddenStupid (Nov 11, 2007)

so...... x264 is the best quality....... 

what about between mpeg2 and mpeg4? which is higher quality?


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## Dandel (Nov 11, 2007)

HiddenStupid said:


> so...... x264 is the best quality.......
> 
> what about between mpeg2 and mpeg4? which is higher quality?




Yet again, this depends on the encoder settings...
mpeg4 looks a whole lot better on lower bit rates ( around 750 kb/s for a 640x480 video. )
mpeg2 looks the best when on higher bit rates ( your looking at 1.5 to 4.8 mb/s for 640x480 video. )


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## ghost101 (Nov 11, 2007)

HiddenStupid said:


> so...... x264 is the best quality.......
> 
> what about between mpeg2 and mpeg4? which is higher quality?



Thats such a bad question. Mpeg2 is better quality because it isnt compresed like mpeg4 is. However, if say you want to limit a file to 350MB, mpeg4 would be better because it is better compressed.


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## HiddenStupid (Nov 11, 2007)

Dandel said:


> ok, it's all about quality to file size ratio on this... here's a list of codecs and their relative sizes for the same quality and picture size...
> 
> example:
> 640x480 video at 29.97 fps with total length of 24 minutes and no artifacting.
> ...



i got the mediacoder..... how do I convert it to X264? theres only h264 and others there......

and hey whenever I hit the start button to convert..... it always crash..... any idea?


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## Dandel (Nov 11, 2007)

ghost101 said:


> Thats such a bad question. Mpeg2 is better quality because it isnt compresed like mpeg4 is. However, if say you want to limit a file to 350MB, mpeg4 would be better because it is better compressed.



Very true in most respects, but mpeg2 is the codec that is used in dvd players because it has less hardware requirements on processing power.




HiddenStupid said:


> i got the mediacoder..... how do I convert it to X264? theres only h264 and others there......



use h264, because x264 is based on that.


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## HiddenStupid (Nov 11, 2007)

it crash on me.... help....

i set everything to super maximum settings.... slide every bar to the right side...... set to h264 format..... hit the start button and crash!

now tried without messing with the bar.... everythign default and set to h264..... hit the start button....... it dont crash but it says output is not set..... but i already did the output to desktop.... output is mean the location we want to save the converteds video at right?

help!


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## Dandel (Nov 11, 2007)

Settings could of caused the crash, try using the stock settings, with the only changes under the video tab being full pixel motion to exhaustive, the bitrate from 750 to 800 kb/s and if the video quality is not very good set the mode from bitrate based to either 2 pass or 3 pass. ( source and backend should be set to auto select for best results on video)

as for audio settings i would use vorbis at 500 ( or 0.5 depending on the encoder)

ending with the muxer/container, pretty much i leave this stock and use the mkv container for the most part.


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## HiddenStupid (Nov 11, 2007)

it seems like nothing work even at the default settings.... it took long.... super long.... so i close but i cant so i force it to shut down.


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## Dandel (Nov 11, 2007)

can you post screenshots of how you have it setup, and which version did you download?

i recommend the release candidate, but not the dev release.


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## HiddenStupid (Nov 11, 2007)

Dandel said:


> can you post screenshots of how you have it setup, and which version did you download?
> 
> i recommend the release candidate, but not the dev release.



I dont know how to take desktop screenshot..... I was thinking to learn how many times but my mind just not into it.... but heard that i must press print screne and open photo shop and something like that?

yeah I think i download the one that says "latest dev release"


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## Dandel (Nov 11, 2007)

Latest dev release means that it will hang and crash a lot more frequently than the latest release candidate... just to make sure, your using MediaCoder version 0.6.0.3905 and not MediaCoder version 0.6.0.3945? ( the later one has more bugs than the earlier version, and is called a dev release for a reason. )


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## v-zero (Nov 11, 2007)

Despite the fact that most of this thread makes no sense and makes me feel a little embarrassed by the lack of general video-technology knowledge around here, I have decided to chip in, since I am an encoding junkie and spend more time on it than anything else at my PC. (Gotta know how when you are building a hard disk library of your HD-DVDs and Blu-Rays but don't own a multi-terabyte disk setup).

Anyway, firstly. MPEG, MPEG2 and MPEG4 are all just "standards". MPEG2 is very good at very high-bitrates for any footage (like 35mbps+), but is useful because it is not CPU intensive, and is a relatively closed (few variations) standard. MPEG4 consists of several parts, the most commonly used being MPEG4 part 2 (or h263) and more recently the superior MPEG4 part 10 (or h264). Xvid and Divx use h263, and the newer codecs (e.g. x264, Nero AVC etc...) use h264. I will not go into detail, but h264 is considerably better than all the other standards in use at the moment per unit bitrate (to a point, at which each codec will become lossless). This is the codec that is used in HD-DVD, and more recently replaced MPEG2 on Blu-Ray - this is alongside the VC1 codec, which is somewhere in between h263 and h264 in terms of ability, but is a microsoft designed unassociated format. 
The reason that h264 only came to the fore over the last few years is because it is highly CPU intensive...

As for encoding, I use MeGui and would advise all others to do the same... It's by far the best of the "free" lot, and whilst it takes a little learning is very rewarding - using AviSynth in MeGui will change the way you encode video.

Finally, for encoding x264 I would use the built in "HQ slow" profile in MeGui, and set your own target size using the "Bitrate Calculator" built into the program.


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## Wile E (Nov 12, 2007)

v-zero said:


> Despite the fact that most of this thread makes no sense and makes me feel a little embarrassed by the lack of general video-technology knowledge around here, I have decided to chip in, since I am an encoding junkie and spend more time on it than anything else at my PC. (Gotta know how when you are building a hard disk library of your HD-DVDs and Blu-Rays but don't own a multi-terabyte disk setup).


You have just piqued my interest. Can you do a tutorial on ripping HDDVD? I have Transformers ripped to my HD using AnyDVD HD, but I can't figure out how to re-encode it.


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## Dandel (Nov 12, 2007)

v-zero said:


> Anyway, firstly. MPEG, MPEG2 and MPEG4 are all just "standards". MPEG2 is very good at very high-bitrates for any footage (like 35mbps+), but is useful because it is not CPU intensive, and is a relatively closed (few variations) standard. MPEG4 consists of several parts, the most commonly used being MPEG4 part 2 (or h263) and more recently the superior MPEG4 part 10 (or h264). Xvid and Divx use h263, and the newer codecs (e.g. x264, Nero AVC etc...) use h264. I will not go into detail, but h264 is considerably better than all the other standards in use at the moment per unit bitrate (to a point, at which each codec will become lossless). This is the codec that is used in HD-DVD, and more recently replaced MPEG2 on Blu-Ray - this is alongside the VC1 codec, which is somewhere in between h263 and h264 in terms of ability, but is a microsoft designed unassociated format.
> The reason that h264 only came to the fore over the last few years is because it is highly CPU intensive...



Very true, and as i said more than once, Mpeg 2 works better at higher bit rates, and thus is a horrible net standard to use unless you have tons of bandwidth. if you look at the videos online stuff that is in HD usually uses x264 ( or h264) and is less than 200mb in file size.



v-zero said:


> As for encoding, I use MeGui and would advise all others to do the same... It's by far the best of the "free" lot, and whilst it takes a little learning is very rewarding - using AviSynth in MeGui will change the way you encode video.
> 
> Finally, for encoding x264 I would use the built in "HQ slow" profile in MeGui, and set your own target size using the "Bitrate Calculator" built into the program.



i would of recommended that, but i have not used it yet... personally i like the extra features in Mediacoder, and they just need a few good presets for h264 encoding already done.


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## tkpenalty (Nov 12, 2007)

Then... what is mkv? I've noticed that Mkv keeps file size down at the same time as delivering excellent video quality.


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## ghost101 (Nov 12, 2007)

MKV is the matroska container.



			
				wikipedia.org said:
			
		

> A container format is a computer file format that can contain various types of data, compressed by means of standardized audio/video codecs. The container file is used to identify and interleave the different data types. Simpler container formats can contain different types of audio codecs, while more advanced container formats can support multiple audio and video streams, subtitles, chapter-information, and meta-data (tags) - along with the synchronization information needed to play back the various streams together.


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## v-zero (Nov 12, 2007)

Wile E said:


> You have just piqued my interest. Can you do a tutorial on ripping HDDVD? I have Transformers ripped to my HD using AnyDVD HD, but I can't figure out how to re-encode it.



I will try and write one this evening, but there may well already be what you need on www.videohelp.com .


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## HiddenStupid (Nov 12, 2007)

additional question:
is there a alternative for fraps? I use fraps to capture my game videos and it is automatically "video clip" format which will take up to 300mb for only 30sec or even 500mb.

Is there any program similar to fraps that will automatically be x264 or mpeg2 format for me when i hit the record button?


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## Dandel (Nov 12, 2007)

HiddenStupid said:


> additional question:
> is there a alternative for fraps? I use fraps to capture my game videos and it is automatically "video clip" format which will take up to 300mb for only 30sec or even 500mb.
> 
> Is there any program similar to fraps that will automatically be x264 or mpeg2 format for me when i hit the record button?



no, because if it did that then your overall in game fps will be less than playable... only other solution to this would be to have a second computer that can accept hdtv input and use a pretty powerful processor in it to handle the encoding real time.


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## HiddenStupid (Nov 12, 2007)

I uninstall the mediacoder dev release and install the one that says candidate.

It happend the same.... I hit the start button to start encode.... and it just stay there nothing happend. I try to set to default on the "container" and it work.

I encode to h264 and mpeg2 and compare side by side.... mpeg2 is sharper and deep brilliant color while h264 is brighter and kindda fade. and yeah I slide every bar to the right side.... highest bitrate, highest everything.... and slide everything to the right side is more quality right? and I guess thats why mpeg2 look better? cause it is at the highest bitrate look few or many said here.

I guess i'll stick with mpeg2 and wow! mpeg2 is only 22mb and h264 is 34mb. 22mb and better quality.... nice!

I google megui and found a site to download.... install.... and try to input file in.... and it wont let me.... confusing....

and just to add.... when I use crazy browser to download mediacoder.... it freeze.... then tried with firefox and it work. I guess the site is not compatible with some browser.

*edit:
ummm i need help. I use VLC player to compare h264 and mpeg2 side by side.... when i open mpeg2 first and h264 second... the mpeg2 is better and the h264 is bright. When I open h264 first and mpeg2 second.... the h264 is better and mpeg2 is brighter. could this be VLC? VLC playe ris doing this? now I do not know which is truly better.*

was googling and found this site http://www.pixeltools.com/h264_paper.html 

i think it is very interesting but I cant understand much.... maybe it is super useful for others.



another quick question..... is container file matter in quality?

if i choose format mpeg... and i choose container avi.... does container avi make quality loweR? or container dont matter?


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## Wile E (Nov 13, 2007)

Container doesn't matter for quality, only compatibility and features.


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## Dandel (Nov 13, 2007)

HiddenStupid said:


> I uninstall the mediacoder dev release and install the one that says candidate.
> 
> It happend the same.... I hit the start button to start encode.... and it just stay there nothing happend. I try to set to default on the "container" and it work.
> 
> ...



I need a few questions on the source of your video and whatnot... namely, what is the Resolution, run length, and audio codec information.

as for encoding video:

640x480 video should be at anywhere from 600 to 800kb/s encode rate for x264 and that should reveal something... try setting the x264 bitrate to single pass using a bit rate of 750kb/s and then tell me the file size difference.


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## HiddenStupid (Nov 13, 2007)

.....ummmm sounds difficult. I have no idea what codec it is and dont know how to find out.... also im not on my primary computer right now. I'll just stick with mpeg4.

so..... which container is better? although it dont matter in quality. I use windows media container....


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