# Computer Case front panel power switch connector



## LFaWolf (May 3, 2018)

Hey all, I recently came across a problem that I am still baffled. I have built over 100 PCs for various people and reasons but have never seen anything like this. Perhaps my knowledge is wrong so it would be neat to learn something today.

I have a test machine that has been running without any issue. I recently decided to take the case, a nice Antec P280 for a different build with a larger motherboard, and move the test hardware to a Corsair 400R, a new case that is not used. After everything has been moved, I turned on the 400R. The CPU fans spun up, as well as the lights, DVD drive, GPU fan (a GTX 680) for a second and then the machine is off. I was puzzled as the test machine was running just fine previously. I proceeded to do all kinds of troubleshooting and finally, remove the motherboard and placed it on a test bench. Lo and behold it booted right up without any issue. At this point the only difference between the test bench and the Corsair 400R is the power supply and the case. I put the motherboard back into the 400R, and the same issue happened. I thought about replacing the power supply as it is getting old (a Silverstone Decathlon 800w). However, I thought the symptom of immediate shut off is reminiscing of a power "short", so with nothing else from the front panel connected, I used a screwdriver to "connect" the power pins of the motherboard, and lo and behold, it booted and posted!

At this point I figured the front panel power switch connector from the 400R is bad. I tried one more time but this time I reversed the polarity of the front panel power switch and again, the board booted up! So I figured, why not switch back to the previous polarity and see? Well, that didn't work!

My question is, and my understanding has always been, that the front panel power switch connector has no polarity. Its job is to "short" or connect the 2 power pins of the motherboard. This is similar to the reset switch, and unlike the HDD and power LED light that has + and - polarity.  Am I wrong? What could be the problem with the 400R?

Since I switched the "polarity", the 400R has been running fine, turn on and off without any issues.


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## Bill_Bright (May 3, 2018)

LFaWolf said:


> My question is, and my understanding has always been, that the front panel power switch connector has no polarity. Its job is to "short" or connect the 2 power pins of the motherboard. This is similar to the reset switch, and unlike the HDD and power LED light that has + and - polarity. Am I wrong? What could be the problem with the 400R?


No, you are not wrong. In fact, it is not "similar" to the reset switch, but exactly like it (electronically speaking) such that I have on many occasions were the power switch wore out, simply moved the wires from the reset switch to the power pins on the motherboard and told the users to use the Reset button from now on. 

So what is happening here? My "guess" is the switch is broken and one side is already damaged, not making contact, or constantly making contact. Can you easily see the backside of the switch? If so, see if damaged or perhaps pushed out of its retainer.


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## sneekypeet (May 3, 2018)

All front panel wiring has polarity built in. If you look closely to the connectors, one side has an arrow on it for the positive connection. Also if you look at the motherboard they note positive and negative. As many cases as I have gone through over the past decade, only a handful matter with the power switch orientation, but there are a handful where it matters, and why it is best to address polarity when connecting them.


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## jboydgolfer (May 3, 2018)

Reverse direction of power header plug

Its likely a header related issue


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## DeathtoGnomes (May 3, 2018)

sneekypeet said:


> All front panel wiring has polarity built in. If you look closely to the connectors, one side has an arrow on it for the positive connection. Also if you look at the motherboard they note positive and negative. As many cases as I have gone through over the past decade, only a handful matter with the power switch orientation, but there are a handful where it matters, and why it is best to address polarity when connecting them.


This. Pretend there is a diode built in.


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## Bill_Bright (May 3, 2018)

That's not how it is on this Fractal Design or the two Corsairs here. In fact, I have not seen a case where this matters. Got an example?


sneekypeet said:


> All front panel wiring has polarity built in.


 If it mattered for the case, it would matter for the motherboard. And if it mattered for the motherboard, how would shorting the two pins in the motherboard header work? Adding a diode just adds costs. 

Those switches are like a wall light switch. They just make, or break a circuit. Switches don't care about polarity.

Now the Power and Drive Activity LEDs certainly are polarity sensitive which makes sense - since the D in LED stands for diode.


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## coonbro (May 3, 2018)

sounds like you got the pin out wrong on the board to the switch [ I done it  there small and hard to see what the correct 2 needed  bunched up with the rest in line with it ]  or maybe the switch is now bad or shorted  seeing it fires right up and runs when you pop start it  .    so I would think you plugged the switch to the wrong 2 pins or the switch is bad

remove the case switch from the case  and try it on the test bed   correctly plugged in the right 2 pins   - if it works you goofed that if not then maybe a bad switch after all

I guess I should a be sure you don't have a rogue  stand off shorting the board or something making contact that should not in that case


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## jboydgolfer (May 3, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> Got an example?



my Enthoo ProM was directional. incorrect installation caused power on,  & then immediate off. switched around ,and viola! if thats what you mean by example, atleast in my case.i havd the Power Bttn reversed iirc.


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## sneekypeet (May 3, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> That's not how it is on this Fractal Design or the two Corsairs here. In fact, I have not seen a case where this matters. Got an example?
> If it mattered for the case, it would matter for the motherboard. And if it mattered for the motherboard, how would shorting the two pins in the motherboard header work? Adding a diode just adds costs.
> 
> Those switches are like a wall light switch. They just make, or break a circuit. Switches don't care about polarity.
> ...



Just calling it as I see it man. I don't design them I just use them by the hundreds.  I get what you are saying about jumping the pins, but as jboyd so eloquently answered, I am not the only one who has run into this in the wild.


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## Jetster (May 3, 2018)

sneekypeet said:


> All front panel wiring has polarity built in. If you look closely to the connectors, one side has an arrow on it for the positive connection. Also if you look at the motherboard they note positive and negative. As many cases as I have gone through over the past decade, only a handful matter with the power switch orientation, but there are a handful where it matters, and why it is best to address polarity when connecting them.


I didn't know that. Thanks   Makes sense they would mark it for a reason

Its also easy to get confused about the direction of the plug. Older boards have a different direction the plug goes. And of course in proprietary cases who knows?


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## sneekypeet (May 3, 2018)

Jetster said:


> I didn't know that. Thanks   Makes sense they would mark it for a reason
> 
> Its also easy to get confused about the direction of the plug. Older boards have a different direction the plug goes. And of course in proprietary cases who knows?



Best advice is to flip the connectors over and look for the molded arrow on them. It is always the positive lead.


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## Bill_Bright (May 4, 2018)

I think it should be pointed out that *IF* cases or motherboards are requiring these front panel power and reset buttons be connected according to some polarity requirement, that would be a clear, non-compliance violation of the ATX Form Factor standard for PCs.

So if this is happening with factory made computers where "proprietary" modifications are not uncommon, then I can accept (though not happily) this is happening. But for any case that is sold through Newegg, Amazon or anywhere as an ATX compliant case or motherboard, then that is wrong and they need to be taken to court - and boycotted by everyone who builds computers for themselves or as custom computers builders like me, as a business owner, who builds PC computers for clients.

Again, I sure would like to see a link to an example where the front panel power and reset button of an "ATX" case are somehow polarity orientated, and for any motherboard claiming to be "ATX" (including micro, ITX, or EATX) that requires it.


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## LFaWolf (May 4, 2018)

coonbro said:


> sounds like you got the pin out wrong on the board to the switch [ I done it  there small and hard to see what the correct 2 needed  bunched up with the rest in line with it ]  or maybe the switch is now bad or shorted  seeing it fires right up and runs when you pop start it  .    so I would think you plugged the switch to the wrong 2 pins or the switch is bad
> 
> remove the case switch from the case  and try it on the test bed   correctly plugged in the right 2 pins   - if it works you goofed that if not then maybe a bad switch after all
> 
> I guess I should a be sure you don't have a rogue  stand off shorting the board or something making contact that should not in that case



No short anywhere else, and no I did not have the pin out wrong. 



Bill_Bright said:


> That's not how it is on this Fractal Design or the two Corsairs here. In fact, I have not seen a case where this matters. Got an example?
> If it mattered for the case, it would matter for the motherboard. And if it mattered for the motherboard, how would shorting the two pins in the motherboard header work? Adding a diode just adds costs.
> 
> Those switches are like a wall light switch. They just make, or break a circuit. Switches don't care about polarity.
> ...



I would like to ask the same thing, why would connecting the 2 pins with a screwdriver be able to turn the machine on? The motherboard in question is a ASRock Fatal1ty 990FX Killer.


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## sneekypeet (May 4, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> I think it should be pointed out that *IF* cases or motherboards are requiring these front panel power and reset buttons be connected according to some polarity requirement, that would be a clear, non-compliance violation of the ATX Form Factor standard for PCs.
> 
> So if this is happening with factory made computers where "proprietary" modifications are not uncommon, then I can accept (though not happily) this is happening. But for any case that is sold through Newegg, Amazon or anywhere as an ATX compliant case or motherboard, then that is wrong and they need to be taken to court - and boycotted by everyone who builds computers for themselves or as custom computers builders like me, as a business owner, who builds PC computers for clients.
> 
> Again, I sure would like to see a link to an example where the front panel power and reset button of an "ATX" case are somehow polarity orientated, and for any motherboard claiming to be "ATX" (including micro, ITX, or EATX) that requires it.



How is it not in compliance when both the connection and motherboard are both clearly labeled for polarity?


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## Jetster (May 4, 2018)

There is no standard for the front header


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## jboydgolfer (May 4, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> Again, I sure would like to see a link to an example where the front panel power and reset button of an "ATX" case are somehow polarity orientated, and for any motherboard claiming to be "ATX" (including micro, ITX, or EATX) that requires it.



Search motherboard manuals, im sure you'll see something like this. But I have to assume there is some  type of miscommuniation happening here, since this is pretty common knowledge, i think we are not talking about the same subject possibly.

here you can see the header pins for a Fractal Deign Meshify, clearly have both + & -, and under that, a Asrock motherboards header pin ports, also, + & -

Edit:   The more I think of it, I feel like I do recall in the past it not mattering (or if not existing) in the power switch and in the reset switch in regards to polarity, but my memory has never been great












i found this .pdf Document pertaining to ATX FF guidlines/spec's, but there is no mention of specific implemenatation outside of placement on the PCB, and conforming to size and location restrictions/expectations.


Spoiler: ATX form factor standard (front I/O)



The exact location of the front panel I/O connector is not specified. It is recommended that it be placed along the front edge of the board to the right of the expansion slots. When placing the connector, the designer should keep in mind that proper clearance must be provided for the chassis peripheral bays. Locating the front panel I/O connector along the left edge of the board is not recommended due to limited clearance with a full length add-in card. Locating it along the front edge of the board under the expansion slots using a right angle header may be acceptable, provided that clearance for the add-in cards and mechanical retention of the mating connector is properly accounted for.


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## DeathtoGnomes (May 4, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> I think it should be pointed out that *IF* cases or motherboards are requiring these front panel power and reset buttons be connected according to some polarity requirement, that would be a clear, non-compliance violation of the ATX Form Factor standard for PCs.
> 
> So if this is happening with factory made computers where "proprietary" modifications are not uncommon, then I can accept (though not happily) this is happening. But for any case that is sold through Newegg, Amazon or anywhere as an ATX compliant case or motherboard, then that is wrong and they need to be taken to court - and boycotted by everyone who builds computers for themselves or as custom computers builders like me, as a business owner, who builds PC computers for clients.
> 
> Again, I sure would like to see a link to an example where the front panel power and reset button of an "ATX" case are somehow polarity orientated, and for any motherboard claiming to be "ATX" (including micro, ITX, or EATX) that requires it.


Not that I trust your word here, I dont, but what is "your" source for this non-compliance violation?  In all PC's I built, polarity mattered for about 80% of the time, especially true if its a combo switch used as a reset.


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## dorsetknob (May 4, 2018)

getting all heated up over a case switch 
The header cable is probably marked + & - " for health and Safety as its an electrical connection
Probably mandated somewhere in California law and so the rest of the world follow's so they can Sell in California.

Does the Screwdriver i use to bridge the pins  to jump start a breadborded Motherboard need to be + or -.


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## jboydgolfer (May 4, 2018)

im not saying its carrying any serious current or anything, im just pointing out that these plugs and ports are indeed marked +/- (& sometimes GRND), and they do seem to serve some function beyond simply briging a connection , atleast in the cases ive built in.


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## Ferrum Master (May 4, 2018)

If the switch got moist, worn out and then corrosive process and oxidation process is done some salts inside a switch membrane.

In my experience I have seen passive elements to gain active element behavior when damaged, it acts as a diode... ie semiconductor.

So it is normal... just replace it.


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## trog100 (May 4, 2018)

irrespective of what its says on the plug all the power switch does is bridge two contact pins.. exactly like a screwdriver does.. its a momentary connection and should break the connection when the switch is let go..

trog


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## eidairaman1 (May 4, 2018)

jboydgolfer said:


> Search motherboard manuals, im sure you'll see something like this. But I have to assume there is some  type of miscommuniation happening here, since this is pretty common knowledge, i think we are not talking about the same subject possibly.
> 
> here you can see the header pins for a Fractal Deign Meshify, clearly have both + & -, and under that, a Asrock motherboards header pin ports, also, + & -
> 
> ...



Yeah not all have +- on them, i just follow the color wire, if it doesnt work initially i flip it over. Nothing critical here


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## Bill_Bright (May 4, 2018)

Jetster said:


> There is no standard for the front header


Sure there is. If there were no standard, how could you put any ATX motherboard from ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI, EVGA, ASRock, BioStar, XFX, or Foxconn, and install it in any ATX case made by Corsair, NZXT, Fractal Design, Antec, Cooler Master, Be Quiet!, TT, or Lian LI and expect them to be physically and electronically compatible?

The + or - you may see in manuals and on the connectors are there JUST to minimize "amateur" builder (no disrespect intended - I simply mean people not "formally" trained as "electronics technicians") from inundating case and motherboard tech support centers by calling in and asking, "_Which wire goes where?_"

*IF* the motherboard required, electronically, the proper polarity, using a screwdriver to short the two pins could result in unexpected results (the voltage is too low to cause damage). Or it could mistakenly dump the voltage to ground at the switch itself - depending on switch design.



sneekypeet said:


> How is it not in compliance when both the connection and motherboard are both clearly labeled for polarity?


Sorry, my error. I should have been more clear. What I mean is if the motherboard's circuit "design", from an electrical stand point of the circuit in question, required that current must flow through the switch in only one direction so the switch can only be installed one way, that would not be in compliance with the ATX Form Factor standard.

Here is an image of the circuit.





All you are doing when you press the button is "closing" that switch, connecting those two points in that PWR_SW switch together momentarily. That dumps a "low" on the circuit signaling the system to "change states" - power up or power down. You do the same thing with a flat tip screwdriver. *What happens if you flip the screwdriver over? The same thing happens!*

Got a multimeter? Disconnect the two wires from the motherboard front panel header leading to the switch. Stick the two multimeter leads into the wire connectors, observing the labeled polarity and set the meter to measure resistance. You should see an "open" (infinite Ω). Press the button and you should get a "short" (0 Ω). Flip the multimeter leads around and you should see the same results. *IF* polarity through the switch mattered, you would see an open regardless if the switch is open or closed.

And again, this only applies to the Power and Reset button switches. For sure, the LED power and drive activity connectors are polarity dependent. 

Is it good practice to ensure you follow the labeling? Sure.


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## Jetster (May 4, 2018)

Bill show me where ATX specification says to place the pin assignments?  It doesn't, it only says where to play the I/O and its just a recommendation.  It's just an agreement between manufactures. This is also why case manufactures do not group the Front I/O plug as one plug. They're separated. The point is you need to be sure which is which


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## Bill_Bright (May 4, 2018)

Jetster said:


> Bill show me where ATX specification says to place the pin assignments? It doesn't, it only says where to play the I/O and its just a recommendation.


Exactly! 

Note the ATX Form Factor standard only dictates pin assignments when it matters. For example, USB pin assignments use an industry standard pin layout. So does the main 24 pin power connector. What is standard are the voltages.


Jetster said:


> This is also why case manufactures do not group the Front I/O plug as one plug. They're separated


Right! But only partially. For example, the case speaker pinout is standardized and grouped even though the use of a case speaker is not required. But should you decide to add one, like one of these System Speakers, note the molded connector designed to connect in a specific pin layout of that front panel header. That is, the 4 (really 2) pins are laid out in a standard configuration, though they may be located in different places in the header. 

BTW, the entire ATX Form Factor standard is an agreement between the manufactures. Too bad we don't have such an agreement for notebooks.


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## jsfitz54 (May 4, 2018)

@Bill_Bright :  Not looking to drag this out any further but is there any chance that a *case manufacturer *has terminated the other end *on a circuit board* that ties together the other items headers, sound, usb, ect.. that *must maintain polarity as indicated*?

Edit: not just a stand alone momentary switch.


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## coonbro (May 4, 2018)

LFaWolf said:


> No short anywhere else, and no I did not have the pin out wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to ask the same thing, why would connecting the 2 pins with a screwdriver be able to turn the machine on? The motherboard in question is a ASRock Fatal1ty 990FX Killer.



its just a quick bump to short the +/-  that activates the PSU  on that then powers the motherboard and all   and to turn off just bump short the 2 pins again 

thing is if your able to bump start the system with the screwdriver way  with out issue  on the test bed   and you can in the case as well   its got to be the case switch assembly .  [switch and wire]  cause then everything behind that is working properly , right ?

see if your case manufacture has a parts dept. and get a direct replacement  or order a aftermarket  for like 2-5 bucks  to test and use

https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Description=computer power button&Submit=ENE


if nothing else if I dot have a junk case to grab a switch out of  and don't got a order to put one in with it  I just keep bump starting   with my knife or paperclip or screwdriver   . 


I dot guess you said if it was in the case with the switch not working  were you able to pop start it with the screwdriver ?


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## Bill_Bright (May 4, 2018)

jsfitz54 said:


> @Bill_Bright : Not looking to drag this out any further but is there any chance that a *case manufacturer *has terminated the other end *on a circuit board* that ties together the other items headers, sound, usb, ect.. that *must maintain polarity as indicated*?
> 
> Edit: not just a stand alone momentary switch.


Sure - for "OEM" cases used by computer makers, anything can happen. As I noted back in post #12, it is not uncommon for factory made computer makers to use "proprietary" modifications for their own computers. Dell, HP, Acer and others have done this for years, they claim to make things cheaper but the result is always fewer choices for consumers and typically higher prices for us too - because that forces us to buy from them. So cheaper for them, but more expensive for us. This is exactly way Apple Macs have notoriously been more expensive - all parts must come from Apple.

But for computer components we (as home builders, hobbyists, and custom PC builders) buy through Newegg, Amazon, Best Buy, etc. we use for our own builds - where we mix and match brands, they MUST adhere to industry standards (whether those standards are written, or just verbal agreements). Otherwise we would not be able to put an ASUS motherboard in a Fractal Design case with a Seasonic power supply, Samsung SSD, WD hard drive, Corsair RAM, Sony Blu-ray player, Microsoft keyboard, BenQ monitor, and MSI graphics card and expect all the voltages, connectors, protocols, and screw mounting holes to align and fit. We would be forced to buy the same brand for everything.


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## coonbro (May 4, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> Sure - for "OEM" cases used by computer makers, anything can happen. As I noted back in post #12, it is not uncommon for factory made computer makers to use "proprietary" modifications for their own computers. Dell, HP, Acer and others have done this for years, they claim to make things cheaper but the result is always fewer choices for consumers and typically higher prices for us too - because that forces us to buy from them. So cheaper for them, but more expensive for us. This is exactly way Apple Macs have notoriously been more expensive - all parts must come from Apple.
> 
> But for computer components we (as home builders, hobbyists, and custom PC builders) buy through Newegg, Amazon, Best Buy, etc. we use for our own builds - where we mix and match brands, they MUST adhere to industry standards (whether those standards are written, or just verbal agreements). Otherwise we would not be able to put an ASUS motherboard in a Fractal Design case with a Seasonic power supply, Samsung SSD, WD hard drive, Corsair RAM, Sony Blu-ray player, Microsoft keyboard, BenQ monitor, and MSI graphics card and expect all the voltages, connectors, protocols, and screw mounting holes to align and fit. We would be forced to buy the same brand for everything.



pretty much sums that up  .   like a lot of guys want to upgrade the psu in a hp /dell/acer /ect..  and find its not going to fly  or needs to dig up a adaptor  to go from there prebuilt proprietary  to ATX  standard


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## sneekypeet (May 4, 2018)

It all sounds like a lot of fluff to me. If makers had no reason to label polarity on power switches or the motherboard power switch pins, they wouldn't.  Someone had to see a reason for it long ago, and case makers are using it. I don't see how any arguments apply when the OP proved that by following the polarity offered fixed his problem. If the switch was broken and polarity was not needed, the switch would not work in any orientation, which is not what the case is.


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## Bill_Bright (May 4, 2018)

sneekypeet said:


> If makers had no reason to label polarity on power switches or the motherboard power switch pins, they wouldn't.


I already gave a reason - to save $ on unnecessary, warranty/tech support calls from people asking, "Which way does it go?"

The Laws of Physics (which includes how electrons flow through conductors) trump everything else here. That means something else came into play with the OP's scenario. Perhaps the wrong pin was used one way, then corrected when swapped. Or a lead's connector had a bad crimp or wire that "broke" contact one way, then "made" contact when moved around. I don't know. What I do know is if polarity must be observed, then something non-standard and proprietary is being used in the motherboard, case or both that does not conform to accepted ATX Form Factor industry standards.


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## sneekypeet (May 4, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> I already gave a reason - to save $ on unnecessary, warranty/tech support calls from people asking, "Which way does it go?"
> 
> The Laws of Physics (which includes how electrons flow through conductors) trump everything else here. That means something else came into play with the OP's scenario. Perhaps the wrong pin was used one way, then corrected when swapped. Or a lead's connector had a bad crimp or wire that "broke" contact one way, then "made" contact when moved around. I don't know. What I do know is if polarity must be observed, then something non-standard and proprietary is being used in the motherboard, case or both that does not conform to accepted ATX Form Factor industry standards.



Yeah what happened is he bought a case where polarity matters. If I have seen it, and jboyd knows it to be true, and the OP proved it too, why is it so hard to wrap your head around the fact that it is true? Just because you never held a trillion dollars in your hand does not mean it does not exist! Same goes for this. Whether they added a resistor diode (I misspoke), or tied the polarity into other I/O features, it makes no difference. The fact is, even if in rare instances, power switch polarity can matter. Accept it as truth as it has been seen in the wild!


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## Ferrum Master (May 4, 2018)

sneekypeet said:


> Yeah what happened is he bought a case where polarity matters. If I have seen it, and jboyd knows it to be true, and the OP proved it too, why is it so hard to wrap your head around the fact that it is true? Just because you never held a trillion dollars in your hand does not mean it does not exist! Same goes for this. Whether they added a resistor, or tied the polarity into other I/O features, it makes no difference. The fact is, even if in rare instances, power switch polarity can matter. Accept it as truth as it has been seen in the wild!



You should edit out the added resistor part etc... it is very very wrong electric wise. People will laugh who understand.

Even considering polarity. I am with Bill on this one. I have said why it could be like that. Passive parts are passive, active are active.

It is marked because of an option running it from remote gpio driven 3rd parity active device.

In most atx cases passive solution is used and it doesn't care unless it is defective.

Those are electronics and the the schematic is kindergarten level for this implementation for LPC controller startup. Mobo or not but that part decides rules... you are totally going OT with this one.


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## sneekypeet (May 4, 2018)

Well I downloaded the atx specifications and not one part covers that polarity can not matter, and it has mattered for me and others in the past, or this thread and comments in it would not be here. Again, just because you have not used one of the rare cases where it matters does not mean it can't be true. Using an excuse like calls to support for the reason to label them is horse pucky!

If you are willing to call three members essentially liars, why has no credible proof been posted of it being only your way and not the way some of us have already seen as reality?


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## Ferrum Master (May 4, 2018)

Considering how well the I/O is build after few seconds of googling.

https://www.eightforums.com/threads/corsair-case-help-needed.20343/


I make my sure bet that the thing is defective.


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## sneekypeet (May 4, 2018)

Ferrum Master said:


> Considering how well the I/O is build after few seconds of googling.
> 
> https://www.eightforums.com/threads/corsair-case-help-needed.20343/
> 
> ...



Only in that thread the OP has a case that does not work, where our OP has a chassis that does work. How does that apply exactly?


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## Bill_Bright (May 4, 2018)

FTR, I am not and did not calling anyone liars. It is you who refuses to accept how that circuit or the Laws of Physics work. And "resistor"? Ummm, okay.  

Have a good day.


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## Ferrum Master (May 4, 2018)

sneekypeet said:


> Only in that thread the OP has a case that does not work, where our OP has a chassis that does work. How does that apply exactly?



Did you read it? It has two. 


It is so wrong.

Does anyone has the idea in order to power up the thing with a smart control ie polarity matters it needs to be powered up. But you power up the part the delivers power.  It has no stand by power at all. It is a passive part.

Cold joints often end up being a semiconductor and act like diodes, so it is explainable. 

Gosh. This is wild. Didn't expect it from here. Maybe too tough, yea... but believing in just for the sake of it is also wrong. Switch is a switch.


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## trog100 (May 4, 2018)

what a load of fuss and nonsense about nothing.. 

its all pretty simple.. two pins on the motherboard need to be momentarily bridged to boot up the PC.. end of story..

trog


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## jsfitz54 (May 4, 2018)

Someone needs to approach Corsair and find out why the 400R Case is acting this way.
Defective part or some other explanation, such as a circuit board being used.
If a screwdriver or paperclip short worked on the test bench, then it is not a motherboard issue.


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## sneekypeet (May 4, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> FTR, I am not and did not calling anyone liars. It is you who refuses to accept how that circuit or the Laws of Physics work. And "resistor"? Ummm, okay.
> 
> Have a good day.



This information is all in the OP. You call a switch stupid, as in it works or it doesn't, yet this is not what happened. You then complain it is out of spec if it indeed needs polarity, and now its physics? You can't have it both ways man.

Commons sense says two things in this thread. If connected wrong and it don't work, there is a possibility of a bad switch. When connected properly, the switch works as intended, so the switch is not bad. All we are left with is that polarity must matter in some instances.


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## Bill_Bright (May 4, 2018)

Wow. 





sneekypeet said:


> You call a switch stupid, as in it works or it doesn't


No I didn't. In fact, I said the switch could be bad in my first post. In later posts I said it cold be the connector or wire within the lead.


sneekypeet said:


> You then complain it is out of spec if it indeed needs polarity, and now its physics? You can't have it both ways man.


Of course its physics. Contrary to what some folks may believe, it is not magic. It may work in mysterious ways to some, but its not magic. Electrons have mass. They comply with the Laws of Physics.

Sorry, SP, but it is not me who thinks it could be both ways (except, as I noted, with factory made proprietary stuff). 

Now I tried to end this in my last post but you persist in continuing the argument. I'm heading out to the bike trails and hope to get 35 - 40 miles in, the longest ride of the season so far. I will have a good day (baring any crashes or flats) so I am done here. 

Once again, I hope you have a good day too.


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## trog100 (May 4, 2018)

the front panel switch is or should be just like touching two wires together.. there should not be any polarity involved.. 

trog


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## jsfitz54 (May 4, 2018)

sneekypeet said:


> All we are left with is that polarity must matter in some instances.



It cannot be a passive or "dumb" switch like a screwdriver or paperclip.
There has to be some proprietary magic involved in The Corsair 400R case. Like a circuit board that is tied to other items that need polarity maintained.

If the OP bought a new stand alone switch and connected it to the motherboard polarity would not matter.


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## sneekypeet (May 4, 2018)

jsfitz54 said:


> If the OP bought a new stand alone switch and connected it to the motherboard polarity would not matter.



I agree that another switch would not need polarity, as what is sold typically is a dumb switch.
However, with what the OP has explained, this is not what is in his chassis.


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## jsfitz54 (May 4, 2018)

sneekypeet said:


> However, with what the OP has explained, this is not what is in his chassis.



That's what I call CASE specific.


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## coonbro (May 4, 2018)

look up  '' Momentary Switch ''   this is what your using here as your pc case switch    - you push it in and it shorts the +/- Momentary and that activates the PSU      the 2 pins trace back to the 24 pin  under the psu ''on'' pin out    then if you push it in when on for a longer time that signals off

why if your black screening and cant shutdown normal  you hold the case switch in for a brief time and the computer shuts down  , but all it takes is a instant push to activate / turn on



pin 16 here
https://www.lifewire.com/atx-24-pin-12v-power-supply-pinout-2624578

[opinion on how I understand it ]

same with a screwdriver bump start you  momentary  short to start and can turn off by holding on  it a bit longer


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## jboydgolfer (May 4, 2018)

i think maybe the issue is hanging up on the  word "polarity", the pins are marked for it yes, i cant say (as im not an electrician) if they are polar (but im inclined to believe what others are saying as i see no reason they would lie), but i can say installing them in an unmatched manner, can cause the "switch" to not function. again im no electrician, but this seems to be an "effect" from not following the pin guide, which tells me this polar labeling isnt simply to cut down on call center costs, and is to make sure you install the header functions correctly. whether there is a different component in the + or - side of the plug, or if there is nothing in one of them, i cant say, but all i know is that in more than a couple situations, installing them "willy nilly" causes improper function of the power/reset switches. It can cause a couple things iirc, inability to shut down , inability to power on, even inability to sleep a PC , iirc this happened to my daughters PC, no HDD activity light function , etc. I dont know if any damage comes from installing them wrong (ive never experienced any), but i do know it matters , as ive experienced it 1st hand.

but again, i feel like this is a miscommunication or wording issue here, & not so much a "he's wrong & he's right " situation. if that makes sense


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## Caring1 (May 5, 2018)

Seems a few people put too small panties on in the morning, it's a case switch, not rocket surgery or brain science


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## DeathtoGnomes (May 5, 2018)

Afaik, there are no industry standards when it comes this, there is no verbal agreement or any other made up standards for wiring from the front panel to the motherboard. The power pinouts and wiring are as they are for one reason only, for compatibility with case design. The pins could be on the top row or bottom row, as long as the motherboard maker documents which pins the power button needs to be plugged into. Polarity is used for various reasons that can differ from one manufacturer to another, one being is if the switch has lighting or is used as a combination power and reset, it might need that wire plugged into a common ground so there is no feedback voltage.  Corrosion, dirt or any other foreign material can cause the switch to act goofy or act like a diode is built into it so that it isnt up to Bill's faux standards so you can "take the manufacturer to court".


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## Bill_Bright (May 5, 2018)

If the case's power button switch has a LED in it, then it is not a standard switch is it? Nor would it be a standard case as the standard would be to use the Power LED header pins.


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