# Crossover Question



## techguy31 (Aug 24, 2011)

Hi, so I have a Polk Audio PSW505 and in the back of the sub, there is a low pass knob. Is this the crossover for bass where if I set it at 120hz all the low frequency that are below 120hz would be directed to the subwoofer?  Do I have to adjust the knob, I thought that the receiver controls the setting voiding the knobs in the back.  What about the phase switch?  I don't know what that knob does.  I have read that it is to correct the inwards and outwards motion of the woofer of the sub to be correctly in synced with the speakers.
1.If I have the sub connected LFE, does that mean the controls (knob) don't need to be touched and all the controls are done in the receiver menu? 
2. I use to get the speaker woofer to vibrate, but for some reason after some tweaking, the woofers of the speakers don't vibrate anymore.  How do I configure it so that the woofer could vibrate.

Heres the link to the picture of subwoofer ---> Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, L...

Thanks


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## xBruce88x (Aug 24, 2011)

i'm guessing LFE is for use with a receiver that allows you to control the subwoofer's bass levels, while the other is for the manual setting on the subwoofer itself. the lower the Hz, the deeper the bass, the higher and the less the bass effect. bass is low frequency slower moving sound, that's why the subs are soo much bigger than regular speakers. you need more surface area to push more bass sound.

but yea... with a receiver it should control the speaker without having to use the Hz knob, maybe the volume knob but not Hz. with the other port you will have to set it manually, which is fine if you only do one thing with the sub, like only watch movies, or only listen to a certain type of music. but if you use it for say... everything... then you'll want to use the receiver's presets or EQ options for different situations.


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## m4gicfour (Aug 24, 2011)

1. Basically. Just make sure the sub isn't set lower than the receiver.

 If you have the Low-Pass crossover in the receiver set to, say 80Hz, then setting the sub to anything above 80Hz would have no effect (since the receiver is only sending frequencies below that anyway... nothing for the  sub to cut out.) If you set the receiver to 80hz and the sub to 40Hz, then the receiver would send everything below 80Hz, and the sub would cut everything between 40Hz and 80Hz out. Everything above that having already been cut out by the receiver. Standard practice when using the LFE Pre-out is to set the Sub's crossover just slightly higher than the receiver. That way, the receiver's setting is what does the work, and the sub will cut out any interference it may have picked up above that level. The reason to set it slightly higher and not dead on the same setting, is the receiver is digital control, you can set it to 90Hz, or whatever, right on the money, where as with the sub you kind of have to guess where the knob is at between markings so the sub's setting is less accurate.

2. You may have the receiver set to cut the low frequencies from your speakers, sending those only to the sub. If that's the case, and the speakers aren't getting much or any signal below their internal crossover frequency for the woofer, then the woofer won't move because it's essentially getting no signal at all. The setting is likely in the speaker setup menus. Set it for whatever sounds better to you.

About the phase switch: It's the AC equivalent of polarity. To explain better, a little background is neccesary. Speakers are an AC (Alternating Current) device, which means it switches back and forth between positive and negative on each wire. One way makes the speaker move out, the other makes it move in. It's this flipping back and forth that makes speakers vibrate and by adjusting how long it moves each way, you get sound. Phase flips this around backwards. So when it was positive, it's negative now, and when it was negative, it's positive now. 

The + and - terminals on speakers aren't actually positive and negative, they are both positive and negative at different times, but you have to hook all the speakers up the same way or you will have one speaker moving IN while the others move OUT, and it won't sound right - speakers that are out of phase will actually cancel each other out. The phase switch is just like flipping the wires between the + and - terminals.


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## xBruce88x (Aug 24, 2011)

^ also what he said... a bit more info, and good idea about the receiver and sub Hz settings.


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

I have the knob on the back set to the max 120hz so that's fine right?
I have the phase switch at 180 degree; is that fine?
I have the volume on the sub at 70%, and the equalizer in the receiver menu at +6db, is that ok?  Will it matter for the volume knob if I am already setting the volume in the menu at +6db?  If I set at -6db does it make a difference, I don't notice any differnce but I just want to know the technical background of it.
I have the connection all connected the same way from speaker to the receiver.  I also am bi-amping the two fronts so the spurrs are being used.
Am I connecting these wires correctly and am I setting the knobs correctly?



m4gicfour said:


> 1. Basically. Just make sure the sub isn't set lower than the receiver.
> 
> If you have the Low-Pass crossover in the receiver set to, say 80Hz, then setting the sub to anything above 80Hz would have no effect (since the receiver is only sending frequencies below that anyway... nothing for the  sub to cut out.) If you set the receiver to 80hz and the sub to 40Hz, then the receiver would send everything below 80Hz, and the sub would cut everything between 40Hz and 80Hz out. Everything above that having already been cut out by the receiver. Standard practice when using the LFE Pre-out is to set the Sub's crossover just slightly higher than the receiver. That way, the receiver's setting is what does the work, and the sub will cut out any interference it may have picked up above that level. The reason to set it slightly higher and not dead on the same setting, is the receiver is digital control, you can set it to 90Hz, or whatever, right on the money, where as with the sub you kind of have to guess where the knob is at between markings so the sub's setting is less accurate.
> 
> ...


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## m4gicfour (Aug 25, 2011)

Yeah, the crossover on the sub is fine. That'll allow you to adjust the receiver anywhere up to 120Hz without the sub's crossover interfering.

Phase should be at 0 degrees under most circumstances.


			
				Cnet Subwoofer Setup Guide said:
			
		

> http://reviews.cnet.com/1991-11254_7-6360441-8.html
> Step 6:
> Verify that the sub's operating in phase
> When the woofers of your satellite speakers and the subwoofer's woofer move in and out in sync with each other, the system is said to be in phase. The alternative--when the speakers and subwoofer are moving out of sync with each other--produces uneven sound in the sonic range where the sub and satellites' bass overlap and cancels each other out. The audible effect of a system that's out of phase is less bass.
> ...



The volume on the sub is a "Gain" setting. It controls how much the Subwoofer amplifies the signal that it gets from the receiver. As long as the sub isn't blowing you out of the room or way to quiet, any setting should be fine. That one depends on how much bass you like. The setting in the receiver controls how strong of a signal it sends to the sub. Same effect. It adjusts volume.

Sounds like you've got everything wired correctly. Just make sure the speaker terminals aren't bridged if you are bi-amping them, and the receiver is set to bi-amp mode.


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

I have noticed that the bass seems to overpower the music as well as the front and center speaker.  I mean I could still hear the speakers, but the sub seems pretty low and powerful.  I think it's becuase of the volume and not the phase or crossover.  Please correct me if I am wrong, I am just tweaking the knobs to figure out the problem.



m4gicfour said:


> Yeah, the crossover on the sub is fine. That'll allow you to adjust the receiver anywhere up to 120Hz without the sub's crossover interfering.
> 
> Phase should be at 0 degrees under most circumstances.


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## m4gicfour (Aug 25, 2011)

techguy31 said:


> I have noticed that the bass seems to overpower the music as well as the front and center speaker.  I mean I could still hear the speakers, but the sub seems pretty low and powerful.  I think it's becuase of the volume and not the phase or crossover.  Please correct me if I am wrong, I am just tweaking the knobs to figure out the problem.



Yeah, turn the receiver down to 0dB from +6dB and you should notice a large drop in the volume of the subwoofer. Then set the sub's volume to what sounds right to you.


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

May I ask what bridging the bi-amp connection means.  I simply have one set of wire connected to low and the other connected to the high.  The high is connected to the front port and the low is connected to the bi-amp(spurrs).

Thanks for the help.



m4gicfour said:


> Just make sure the speaker terminals aren't bridged if you are bi-amping them


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## m4gicfour (Aug 25, 2011)

http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/Connect/Speaker_connect.htm

The speakers are bridged if the metal piece connecting the "High" frequency input to the "low' frequency input are in place.

Notice on that site that he shows the difference between Bi-wiring and Bi-amping. Bi-wiring BAAAAAD. it's the same as standard wiring, except the bridge is where the wires attach at the amplifier instead of the speaker terminals. WASTE OF MONEH!!!!


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

I don't have the two fronts bridged, because I remember on some video I saw that I should take out the bridge when bi-amping.


Thanks for the help at quick notice and will reply once I feel the sound caters to my need.





m4gicfour said:


> http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/Connect/Speaker_connect.htm
> 
> The speakers are bridged if the metal piece connecting the "High" frequency input to the "low' frequency input are in place.


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## m4gicfour (Aug 25, 2011)

Just happened to be in the forum when your post showed up.


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## AsRock (Aug 25, 2011)

Using the LFE skips the crossover so only the volume knob will make a difference. And for what frequencies you should have your speakers on depends on speakers and what your listening too.


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## m4gicfour (Aug 25, 2011)

AsRock said:


> Using the LFE skips the crossover so only the volume knob will make a difference.



Depends on model, but usually yep. Some powered subs treat it as a low-level input rather than an LFE input so it will actually still make an effect.


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## Cybrnook (Aug 25, 2011)

Keep an eye on the low pass crossover. If you set it at 120hz, it will play 120 and below, BUT there will be a "slope" to the frequency. It's not going to be a hard cut off at 120hz, but it will lower itself out above 120 if that makes sense.

Also, make sure you have your Phase correct. 180 degrees means it will be firing inward when the rest of the speakers are firing outwards. This could cause a problem if you have your sub facing the same direction as your speakers because in essence you are canceling out frequencies. Subs are normally rear firing, so 0 should be ok. 

hope that helps!


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## AsRock (Aug 25, 2011)

m4gicfour said:


> Depends on model, but usually yep. Some powered subs treat it as a low-level input rather than an LFE input so it will actually still make an effect.



I own the 505 my self ( in my specs.).

EDIT:

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/recent/psw505/


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## m4gicfour (Aug 25, 2011)

AsRock said:


> I own the 505 my self ( in my specs.).



So then I guess you'd know for that particular model, now wouldn't you


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

I have the sub woofer facing forward in the same direction as the speakers and the air port of the sub facing the wall.  So I guess I should change the phase switch.  Will incorrectly adjusting these settings damage sub or other part of my system?



Cybrnook said:


> Keep an eye on the low pass crossover. If you set it at 120hz, it will play 120 and below, BUT there will be a "slope" to the frequency. It's not going to be a hard cut off at 120hz, but it will lower itself out above 120 if that makes sense.
> 
> Also, make sure you have your Phase correct. 180 degrees means it will be firing inward when the rest of the speakers are firing outwards. This could cause a problem if you have your sub facing the same direction as your speakers because in essence you are canceling out frequencies. Subs are normally rear firing, so 0 should be ok.
> 
> hope that helps!


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## Cybrnook (Aug 25, 2011)

techguy31 said:


> I have the sub woofer facing forward in the same direction as the speakers and the air port of the sub facing the wall.  So I guess I should change the phase switch.  Will incorrectly adjusting these settings damage sub or other part of my system?



It wont damage anything as it is made to do this. But it will make your setup sounds like ass to say the least.

Food for thought, if your port is on the rear, try turning the sub around towards the wall with the port towards you.

Then you can run phase at 180. If its overpowering try 0


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## m4gicfour (Aug 25, 2011)

techguy31 said:


> I have the sub woofer facing forward in the same direction as the speakers and the air port of the sub facing the wall.  So I guess I should change the phase switch.  Will incorrectly adjusting these settings damage sub or other part of my system?



Phase will not damage anything, nothing at all. Having it set wrong will cancel out some of the sound coming from your speakers 

EDIT - Ninja'd


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

I see.  What volume, crossover, phase do you have set on your speaker, sub, and receiver so I can get an idea what I should set.  I know it varies for the settings for different room, but just wanted some calibrations others use.



m4gicfour said:


> Phase will not damage anything, nothing at all. Having it set wrong will cancel out some of the sound coming from your speakers


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## m4gicfour (Aug 25, 2011)

techguy31 said:


> I see.  What volume, crossover, phase do you have set on your speaker, sub, and receiver so I can get an idea what I should set.  I know it varies for the setting for different room, but just wanted some calibrations others use.



It matters just as much for the speakers you're using as the room you're in. I'm also not bi-amped so that will affect it to some degree. My settings are what audyssey set for me, with a tweak or two. If you really want to know I can go look...


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## AsRock (Aug 25, 2011)

He could try setting the A/V on Full size speakers although make sure you don't put to much though your main speakers but i have noticed more bass from main and sub.


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

It's fine, I just thought you would know from memory, but it's ok because I might use the YPAO for calibrating and some tweaking of my own, but I always get some error.




m4gicfour said:


> It matters just as much for the speakers you're using as the room you're in. I'm also not bi-amped so that will affect it to some degree. My settings are what audyssey set for me, with a tweak or two. If you really want to know I can go look...


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## Cybrnook (Aug 25, 2011)

techguy31 said:


> I see.  What volume, crossover, phase do you have set on your speaker, sub, and receiver so I can get an idea what I should set.  I know it varies for the setting for different room, but just wanted some calibrations others use.



Depending on the size of the sub, 8" I will run around 150 and below, 10" 120 and below, and 12" 100 and below.

The smaller the sub, the more ability it has to play a "Mid-range" frequency. So for a 5 1/2 or 6" You could run around 200hz if you chose too. However that would sound horrible on a larger speaker because the larger speaker has a slower response.

Volume is up to you! The louder you can go with a clean, non-distorted sound, the better in my book. But if your in an apartment etc, then your settings will be completely different as you would want to optimize your sound for a lower volume.

I have my port towards me at phase 0. (Sub is firing towards the floor). Gain is at about 6 1/2 on the sub.


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## m4gicfour (Aug 25, 2011)

You get an error when using YPAO? Or do you mean that it just doesn't set it right?


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

I have set the front and center as large (full) speakers and I did notice that the woofers vibrated but after connecting the sub, the sub would not produce as much low as the calibration I have set.



AsRock said:


> He could try setting the A/V on Full size speakers although make sure you don't put to much though your main speakers but i have noticed more bass from main and sub.


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

I get a e-x message; I have to check when I get back, in the manual it gives a list of error message but forgot which number it displayed.  But the calibration would not go through until I fix the error.



m4gicfour said:


> You get an error when using YPAO? Or do you mean that it just doesn't set it right?


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## m4gicfour (Aug 25, 2011)

techguy31 said:


> I have set the front and center as large (full) speakers and I did notice that the woofers vibrated but after connecting the sub, the sub would not produce as much low as the calibration I have set.



YPAO will adjust every speaker setting your receiver has. If your speakers can handle low frequencies it will generally NOT send those to the sub. YPAO will try to have the sub playing only the frequencies that are too low for your speakers to properly handle, for the most part. That's all fine and good, but you may not want it that way. That's why YPAO is a good starting point, but don't think you have to keep the settings it gives you. Adjust away. Just do your adjustments AFTER YPAO or else YPAO will wipe out your settings for its own.

After reading the second post, obviously you haven't used YPAO on it. But nevertheless, if the speakers are set as full-range, the receiver will likely not send some of those frequencies to the subwoofer. My Onkyo has an option called "double bass" which does the opposite, it makes it so the bass still goes the same to both, even if the speakers are full-range


techguy31 said:


> I get a e-x message; I have to check when I get back, in the manual it gives a list of error message but forgot which number it displayed.  But the calibration would not go through until I fix the error.



Oh, ok... that's different. Well I guess we need to know the error then.


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks for the help, I'll reply once I know the error message.

I hope this will enhance the music.



m4gicfour said:


> Oh, ok... that's different. Well I guess we need to know the error then.


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

Hi, so I have a huge problem as of now.  I tried to setup the YPAO but everytime it gets to the Surround Right ( I have biamped, so it should be the low frequency of the right channel) the receiver shuts off.  When I turn the receiver back on it says "check sp wire" (meaning speaker wire).  I have tried this multiple time and it consistently shuts off the receiver, I hope I didn't damage anything.  I checked on the manual and it says that bare wires might be touching the receiver, but I have bannana plugs connected so the speakers as well as the receiver, so I don't think there is any problem.  There is one single strand of copper wire sticking out of the high frequency right channel (black) but I don't think that is a problem.  I also have the back surround right and left connected to the receiver but there is no speakers connected to them at the moment.  The wires that I connected and wired to the back of the room are not touching any metal so I don't believe that that is the problem.  Please tell me what I'm doing wrong.


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## m4gicfour (Aug 25, 2011)

Sounds like a short circuit to me. The fact that the receiver has turned itself off means some sort of protection has kicked in, and hopefully nothing is damaged. The basics of troubleshooting is your best friend here: Step one is turn everything off. To reduce possible problems, unplug anything that doesn't have a speaker attached to it. Use some masking tape and a marker to label the wires before you do, so you don't have to trace your wires back later. Make sure you know which position each pair goes to and which polarity each wire of each pair is. Chop off *any* stray strands of wire. Even if it's not a problem now, it will at some point cause you a headache.

Double check your connections at the receiver, and at the speaker. Make sure you've got no stray strands of wire and that you didn't oops and plug something in wrong anywhere, and doublecheck that you didn't forget to remove a speaker terminal bridge. Check that the bannana plugs are seated properly, and none of the plugs or the terminals they plug into are defective or bent such that they can touch any terminal but the one they're supposed to (or any other bannana plug)

After you've rechecked EVERYTHING electrical, move on to the settings.

Double check the setting in the receiver to make sure it's set up for bi-amped mode. Sometimes you can click the wrong button and back out of a menu without saving changes. Happens to the best of us.  Now try again. If it fails, contact Yamaha and tell them what you've done so far, and ask what else might cause that behaviour besides a short.


I'm hoping you'll find a tiny stray strand touching another plug in the first place you look and you can solve the problem right away, but things rarely seem to go that easy.


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

Why does this happen when I use YPAO.  I tried the manual test tone.  I could hear the front, left, center, sub, not the surround left or right.  I was able to use YPAO before but that was when I had the e-x error and I also did not connect the back right and left wire.  Have you ever connected wires from the receiver and have the other end just laying around?  I left the surround unconnected so when I get the rear channels I could just connect the speaker wires to the speaker and not have to worry about connecting it to the receiver as it is so confusing to connect it when I get it three month from now.


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## m4gicfour (Aug 25, 2011)

Without knowing what the E-X error is I have no bloody clue what it was doing before. The system shutting itself off and flagging a speaker wire just sounds like an electrical problem.

If your test tone plays sound out of all the channels hooked up, then it _shouldn't_ be an electrical problem. If your test tone isn't making sound from the second part of the bi-amped channel, something isn't right. I can't say WHAT that might be, could be wired wrong, could be bridged in some manner, could be a wrong setting, could be a defective receiver, could be a defective speaker, could be magical little gremlins. Okay, probably not that last one. I don't have a Yamaha receiver, nor the manual for it so I'm kind of flying blind here, all I can do is give you the basics that should be true everywhere. Beyond that, you'll need to find someone with your receiver or at least a comparable Yamaha, or contact Yamaha tech support.

If anybody else has an idea, please do chime in.



techguy31 said:


> Have you ever connected wires from the receiver and have the other end just laying around?



Have you ever connected jumper cables to your vehicle's battery and have the other end just laying around? No. It's a bad idea IMHO. It's fine to pre-run your wires, but I wouldn't hook it up to the receiver until there's a speaker ready to be hooked up to the other side. All it takes is one bump to shortciruit your receiver. That's why you label your wires, so they can be unplugged and it's not confusing to connect them later.


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

thanks for helping.  but honestly i am just so pissed off that before i was able to hear the right, left, center, surr right, surr left, and sub and now when i want to use ypao the receiver is acting up.  But I just wanted to ask if  you connect the surround left to the right low and the surround right to the left low frequency would that be a problem.  I dont want to try as i dont want to short the receiver again.


Much thanks


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## m4gicfour (Aug 25, 2011)

techguy31 said:


> thanks for helping.  but honestly i am just so pissed off that before i was able to hear the right, left, center, surr right, surr left, and sub and now when i want to use ypao the receiver is acting up.  But I just wanted to ask if  you connect the surround left to the right low and the surround right to the left low frequency would that be a problem.  I dont want to try as i dont want to short the receiver again.
> 
> 
> Much thanks



I understand being pissed off. Really I do. Right now I've got an almost brand new laptop with a dead MXM module because ASUS forgot to put a fan on the GPU.

I don't know what you mean to achieve by doing that. I don't even really know what you mean. Don't hook more than one channel to any speaker (apart from BI-amping, and do that only as the manual says.) Theoretically, you could hook any channel anywhere you wanted as long as there is no internal bridging in the speaker and there is no short ciruits and each wire goes to a seperate set of terminals. I wouldn't reccomend it though.


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

i'll definitely try looking for even a single strand of copper wire sticking out to see if i resolve this annoying issue.  but why can i listen to music as well as movies and other sources without having the check speaker wire message?  

I hope you fix ur laptop, would help but seems like u diagnosed the problem already.

I really appreciate ur help.


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## m4gicfour (Aug 25, 2011)

Don't know. If the problem is on a speaker channel which is not in use during those activites (since those are probably 2.0), then you won't neccessarily encounter the problem. YPAO, if it's anything like the version of Audyssey that my Onkyo has, will try to detect all the speakers the receiver is capable of having, so it will send a signal out to each, and if that one is shorted... YPAO may be sensitive enough to detect a problem where as just playing music may not, hard to say. Just guessing at this point.

On the other hand, it could be software problems too. Unlikely but not impossible. Like I said, check with Yamaha if you can't find any problems.


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

will definitely try, I checked the back, and tightened all the knobs and made sure that not even one single strand was being exposed.  I guess I'll just wait a day and try tomorrow and if that still doesn't work I will contact Yamaha or Amazon for a return.

Thanks.


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## INSTG8R (Aug 25, 2011)

Well I will chime in here because I have a Yamaha Amp and 5.1 setup. If I understand correctly your running your fronts off the sub outs? This may be why the YPAO is having issues. I ONLY use the LFE connection from my amp(Via RCA) to the sub. So yes the Crossover will not have any effect the Amp will set the frequency you just adjust the volume of the sub itself, YPAO would set the crossover freq. tho you can of course go in and adjust it manually as well.


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

No I am running my fronts off the Yamaha receiver itself and the sub only has a RCA from LFE to the subwoofer connection of the receiver.



INSTG8R said:


> Well I will chime in here because I have a Yamaha Amp and 5.1 setup. If I understand correctly your running your fronts off the sub outs? This may be why the YPAO is having issues. I ONLY use the LFE connection from my amp(Via RCA) to the sub. So yes the Crossover will not have any effect the Amp will set the frequency you just adjust the volume of the sub itself, YPAO would set the crossover freq. tho you can of course go in and adjust it manually as well.


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## INSTG8R (Aug 25, 2011)

Okay then I am a little stumped as to why it is throwing speaker errors on the YPAO outside of making sure all your polarities are correct. Also something else that is important to check is the Impedence of the speakers. I know my satellites all run at 6ohms so I have to change the impedence in the amp to match it. The amp runs 8ohms by default.


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

I have B&W CM1 (x2), B&W CMC 2 (x1), and Polk Audio PSW505 (x1).  The speakers are rated at 8ohm nominal.




INSTG8R said:


> Okay then I am a little stumped as to why it is throwing speaker errors on the YPAO outside of making sure all your polarities are correct. Also something else that is important to check is the Impedence of the speakers. I know my satellites all run at 6ohms so I have to change the impedence in the amp to match it. The amp runs 8ohms by default.


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## INSTG8R (Aug 25, 2011)

Ok that rules out an impedance issue. Usually if it throws up a wiring error it means one of the polarities is backwards.


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## BumbleBee (Aug 25, 2011)

how many hours have you spent trying to setup the receiver? it doesn't sound like your happy with it.


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

Could it be that the left and right surround to the low frequency causing this problem?  I checked to make sure that they are in the right connection, but don't want to risk changing the connections of the low frequency of right and left and short the receiver again.



INSTG8R said:


> Ok that rules out an impedance issue. Usually if it throws up a wiring error it means one of the polarities is backwards.


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

Probably 2-3 hours, but I didn't have this problem before.  It is just right now when I want to use YPAO rather than confinguring manually first.



BumbleBee said:


> how many hours have you spent trying to setup the receiver? it doesn't sound like your happy with this receiver at all.


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## INSTG8R (Aug 25, 2011)

techguy31 said:


> Could it be that the left and right surround to the low frequency causing this problem?  I checked to make sure that they are in the right connection, but don't want to risk changing the connections of the low frequency of right and left and short the receiver again.



Yes this could very well be the problem. I am just using the regular outputs for mine. YPAO would detect whether they were large or small speakers and adjust the low frequencies accordingly(Basically setting the crossover freq. to match the other speakers)


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

Just curious, it can't be the banana plugs right?



INSTG8R said:


> Yes this could very well be the problem. I am just using the regular outputs for mine. YPAO would detect whether they were large or small speakers and adjust the low frequencies accordingly(Basically setting the crossover freq. to match the other speakers)


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## INSTG8R (Aug 25, 2011)

Well just doing a quick read up on your speakers I did come across this:

Use 	"Due to their protective caps, the binding posts can accommodate only spade connectors or bare wire. This is a EU safety requirement that forbids the insertion of plugs into binding posts, so if you have banana-plug-terminated speaker cables, you're out of luck."

So perhaps?

Link to source:

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/bw_cm1.htm


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

I have researched into that problem and the seller of the speaker told me that it is fine to use banana plugs.  I know that it is not the speakers problem as they are new and not used.

Thanks for the research though.



INSTG8R said:


> Well just doing a quick read up on your speakers I did come across this:
> 
> Use 	"Due to their protective caps, the binding posts can accommodate only spade connectors or bare wire. This is a EU safety requirement that forbids the insertion of plugs into binding posts, so if you have banana-plug-terminated speaker cables, you're out of luck."
> 
> ...


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## INSTG8R (Aug 25, 2011)

Well than all that I can suggest is to just use the regular Front outputs as they are only Satellites/Bookshelfs. The YPAO will see them as such and adjust the frequencies accordingly. 
I will pull out my manual and have a look at my inputs back there.


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

Why could I still listen to music and movies and other things in general, but when I just want to calibrate with YPAO, I get this message.  Isn't it that when you have the wrong connection, that you won't even be able to have any audio coming out of the speakers?




INSTG8R said:


> Well than all that I can suggest is to just use the regular Front outputs as they are only Satellites/Bookshelfs. The YPAO will see them as such and adjust the frequencies accordingly.
> I will pull out my manual and have a look at my inputs back there.


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## INSTG8R (Aug 25, 2011)

techguy31 said:


> Why could I still listen to music and movies and other things in general, but when I just want to calibrate with YPAO, I get this message.  Isn't it that when you have the wrong connection, that you won't even be able to have any audio coming out of the speakers?




Yes that is true. Which is why this is a bit of a puzzler. All I can think of is that one of the speakers polarities is backwards. If you know which speaker it is the YPAO is erroring on you could just try flipping the polarity on it and seeing if that changes anything or at least be able to isolate the issue with said speaker.


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

The receiver has consistently shut off and turn back on with the message "check speaker wire" when it reaches the surround right (bi-amped so it is the low frequency).  I have checked the color on the wires and the speaker terminals.




INSTG8R said:


> Yes that is true. Which is why this is a bit of a puzzler. All I can think of is that one of the speakers polarities is backwards. If you know which speaker it is the YPAO is erroring on you could just try flipping the polarity on it and seeing if that changes anything or at least be able to isolate the issue with said speaker.


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## INSTG8R (Aug 25, 2011)

Well I would eliminate the Bi-amping as that would seem to be the issue. BTW what model Amp are you running so I have better idea of what is going on for your connection options. I know for my own amp(older RX-V661) The only channel I have the option to Bi-amp is the back surrounds if you are using only 1 speaker.


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

I have the Yamaha RX-V667 and I am bi-amping both the right and left channel.  I too have the option to bi-amp using the surrounds.  

Really appreciate your effort in helping me.  I am just going to wish that it might be a temporary system glitch that just happens for a day.  I will try tomorrow and will respond back if I have resolved or is still in the same absurd situation.



INSTG8R said:


> Well I would eliminate the Bi-amping as that would seem to be the issue. BTW what model Amp are you running so I have better idea of what is going on for your connection options. I know for my own amp(older RX-V661) The only channel I have the option to Bi-amp is the back surrounds if you are using only 1 speaker.


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## INSTG8R (Aug 25, 2011)

Well considering the size of the speakers I don't see any advantages to bi-amping them anyway. You have a sub to handle the low end and if and when you get YPAO working it would set the low end frequencies to match the speakers.


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

It seems that after every situation I encounter I have fixed so far a new problem arises.  The problem I was facing before was that I wanted the DTS, DD, etc to display and decoded from the receiver.  A simple press on the info button showed the DTS, DD, etc letters.  I guess the receiver was decoding the audio the entire time, and the front panel was just set to display the input.  This issue was fixed with a simple driver update.  Now the issue seems to be unfixable.


I guess I might just ditch the bi-amping, but I would be wasting 16 foot of wire.  But I will definitely try your method and see what happens.


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## INSTG8R (Aug 25, 2011)

Well having looked up your amp you pretty much have the same options as I have for Bi-amping which was the Back Surrounds. But again that was only meant to Bi-amp for one speaker. If that is the case that is most definitely the wiring issue. If you are only using 2 rear surrounds you just be using the Surround outputs not the Surround Back/Bi-amps section.


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

I also forgot to mention that I have the speaker wire for the rear surround connected to the receiver but not outputting to anything.  I just have the wire laying on the floor until I get the rear channel.  Would that be a problem?  I don't think it is because the problem only occurs when it reaches the surround right.


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## INSTG8R (Aug 25, 2011)

Well from memory the YPAO does sweep the back surround channel on its first check(Surround R-Surround Back-Surround Left). Once it realizes there isn't one it skips it from there on. So as strange as it is that bare wire could very well be an issue.


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## techguy31 (Aug 25, 2011)

I hope that this issue is just a system glitch and will be magically fixed tomorrow.  Have you ever had a system glitch on your receiver?  Anyways, it's getting pretty late and my annoyance pissed off attitude is not getting me anywhere.  I guess I will wait until tomorrow until I am rested to hope to resolve this issue.


Thanks for the help.  Greatly appreciated.


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## INSTG8R (Aug 25, 2011)

Not a problem. Nah the only error mine has ever thrown in YPAO was it telling me I had my subs volume to high for it to properly calibrate. My best advice is to just drop the Bi-amping for now.


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## techguy31 (Aug 26, 2011)

The yellow arrows are what is being displayed on my front panel.  Is it suppose to be displayed like this if bi-amping?

So I find it puzzling that the front panel displays that I have the surround right and left.  But in the connection for bi-amping it is surround back.  So shouldn't the surround back right and left be displaying and not the surround right and left?


Here's the link to the manual, it's on page 9 ---->http://www.fullcompass.com/common/files/13104-Yamaha RX-V667 Manual.pdf


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## techguy31 (Aug 26, 2011)

Well guys I have finally solved the very simple problem that I was struggling with.  So the reason the receiver kept on shutting off was because I had the surround left right connected to nothing, and I guess the receiver senses that the end connector that I have placed on the ground could be placed potentially near some metal or electrical thing that would harm the receiver, so I guess it shuts it off.  After I took out the surround wires, which took about an hour because my wires are so cluttered, I was able to use YPAO, but still faced some W-X message this time.  But I tinkered with the speaker placement and adjusted the phase, low pass and volume knob of the sub, I was finally able to get that one message I was awaiting for about 1 day.  "Complete".  But I find that YPAO is quite worthless.  It did not improve the quality of sound coming out of the speakers.  I guess I was wasting time on something that really didn't work.  Instead configuring the settings manually drastically changed the quality of sound coming out.  I don't really know what the + & - (for the volume, is it +6db louder than -6db?) because when I manually set the front and center to +3db it greatly increased the sound of the speaker.  YPAO set my sub at +10dB is that correct?  I want shaking bass but not to shaky for music.  Do I adjust this in the menu or on the subwoofer?


Now another problem I face is with the decoder of the receiver:
I played AVATAR Bluray DVD on my computer and using the program Cyberlink PowerDVD10 and everything is great and all, but for some reason, the receiver is not decoding the DTS-MA HD of the movie.  I know for a fact that the audio is streaming in DTS-MA HD because it says so in the info box and the AVATAR box says the audio is in DTS-MA HD.  The output stated on the info box of the Cyberlink PowerDVD10 says "Compressed Data", what is that?  How do I resolve this problem, and I guess after this, I will finally be finiished with my setup.

Thanks for all the help guys.


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## INSTG8R (Aug 26, 2011)

Just happy you finally got it sorted out. Well to a point anyway. I found YPAO suited my needs I great I use a bi-pod I have for my camera and set it at my listening position on the couch and run it. It does have options for different EQ's in the setup I use "Natural" but you found that you were getting better results from adjusting the Fronts you may want to try the Fronts EQ setting.

I would say if it is boosting your sub volume that much I would adjust the main volume on the sub itself then(I run mine at 50% on the volume) I wouldn't be messing around with the low pass or phase because your using LFE so technically they have no real function(The are intended for making adjustments when your running a full range signal)

I really can't help you with the Cyberlink issue as I haven't used that in years(My PS3 is my media player)


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## techguy31 (Aug 27, 2011)

Thanks, I found the equalizer menu.


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## m4gicfour (Aug 27, 2011)

Well, glad you got it worked out. I wish I had powerdvd so I could help in any way, shape, or form. I'm sure you'll get it figured eventually. good luck.


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## techguy31 (Aug 27, 2011)

Thanks, wouldn't have been able to do these simple little things without the help of this forum.

I might just ditch the PowerDVD10 and just get Arcsoft Total Media 5 and hope for the best.

THANKS.


m4gicfour said:


> Well, glad you got it worked out. I wish I had powerdvd so I could help in any way, shape, or form. I'm sure you'll get it figured eventually. good luck.


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## m4gicfour (Aug 28, 2011)

techguy31 said:


> Thanks, wouldn't have been able to do these simple little things without the help of this forum.
> 
> I might just ditch the PowerDVD10 and just get Arcsoft Total Media 5 and hope for the best.
> 
> THANKS.



ArcSoft has a 15-day trial, so you shouldn't have to "hope for the best". You can try it first


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## BumbleBee (Aug 28, 2011)

INSTG8R said:


> Just happy you finally got it sorted out. Well to a point anyway. I found YPAO suited my needs I great I use a bi-pod I have for my camera and set it at my listening position on the couch and run it.



http://forum.blu-ray.com/4196864-post31.html


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## GSquadron (Aug 28, 2011)

Crossover?!
Does this has smth to do with biology


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## techguy31 (Aug 28, 2011)

Thanks for the heads up.  Was going to buy it at office depot today.



m4gicfour said:


> ArcSoft has a 15-day trial, so you shouldn't have to "hope for the best". You can try it first


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## m4gicfour (Aug 30, 2011)

No problem. I actually quite like ArcSoft's TotalMediaTheatre software. I was planning on buying it for the BD-R drive I put in my laptop but for some reason I ended up buying PowerDVD 11 (which is actually quite different than 10, friend of mine has the cut-down version of 10 that came with his BR drive). My PDVD11 and the brand new BD-R drive is, of course, on the laptop that no longer works.


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## techguy31 (Aug 30, 2011)

Wow,should have invested the bd-r on a desktop (I believe more reliable, mines is still going strong; then again I rarely use it )  How is PDVD11, I was thinking of getting it but since I had a few problems and bugs with PDVD 10 I decided to look at other softwares.  

Hope you fix your laptop.



m4gicfour said:


> No problem. I actually quite like ArcSoft's TotalMediaTheatre software. I was planning on buying it for the BD-R drive I put in my laptop but for some reason I ended up buying PowerDVD 11 (which is actually quite different than 10, friend of mine has the cut-down version of 10 that came with his BR drive). My PDVD11 and the brand new BD-R drive is, of course, on the laptop that no longer works.


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## m4gicfour (Aug 30, 2011)

techguy31 said:


> Wow,should have invested the bd-r on a desktop (I believe more reliable, mines is still going strong; then again I rarely use it )  How is PDVD11, I was thinking of getting it but since I had a few problems and bugs with PDVD 10 I decided to look at other softwares.
> 
> Hope you fix your laptop.



Yeah, maybe. I can always buy an external enclosure and use it that way, though.  I just wanted a way to watch movies on the go. My PS3 already plays them at home. Honestly I think it was playing blu-rays that killed my graphics module... There was no fan on it despite the laptop clearly having a spot for it, and all the connectors, screwholes, intake, exhaust, a spot in the heatsink for it, etc etc that would be required. PDVD11 and TMT5 both use the hardware decoding ability in any available graphics chip to assist, and they both have the ability to make use of AMD APP, so my GPU was working much harder once I started playing blu-rays. Thanks ASUS for forgetting a 10 cent fan and borking a GPU it'll cost me $150 to replace 

PDVD11 is alright, but TMT5 seemed to perform a bit better for me. My laptop is almost underpowered for blu-ray use, and PDVD11 had problems keeping up at times where as TMT5 was almost 100% smooth almost 100% of the time. TMT5 didn't seem to have as many configurable options, though (which is a personal peeve of mine. I like to be able to tweak *everything*)  but TMT5 also seemed more streamlined an the interface was less cluttered than PDVD11. I never did get to do anything as far as using the HDMI out on my lappy or bitstreaming or anything advanced so I can't say anything about it beyond just general usage characteristics.

PDVD11 has a 30-day trial, as well, if you wanted to try that before you made any kind of decision as to whether to buy a new program or stick with PDVD10.

Oh, and as a heads up: You'll probably have to buy the most expensive version of either program if you want to be able to play blu-ray movies. Make sure you check out the feature comparison before you buy anything if you do decide to buy.


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## techguy31 (Sep 2, 2011)

So I just downloaded the TMT5 trial version, is there anyway like the PDVD10 to change the settings of the output audio to HDMI and have the receiver do the decoding?  When I play a DTS movie, the receiver only displays PCM.

Thanks.




m4gicfour said:


> Yeah, maybe. I can always buy an external enclosure and use it that way, though.  I just wanted a way to watch movies on the go. My PS3 already plays them at home. Honestly I think it was playing blu-rays that killed my graphics module... There was no fan on it despite the laptop clearly having a spot for it, and all the connectors, screwholes, intake, exhaust, a spot in the heatsink for it, etc etc that would be required. PDVD11 and TMT5 both use the hardware decoding ability in any available graphics chip to assist, and they both have the ability to make use of AMD APP, so my GPU was working much harder once I started playing blu-rays. Thanks ASUS for forgetting a 10 cent fan and borking a GPU it'll cost me $150 to replace
> 
> PDVD11 is alright, but TMT5 seemed to perform a bit better for me. My laptop is almost underpowered for blu-ray use, and PDVD11 had problems keeping up at times where as TMT5 was almost 100% smooth almost 100% of the time. TMT5 didn't seem to have as many configurable options, though (which is a personal peeve of mine. I like to be able to tweak *everything*)  but TMT5 also seemed more streamlined an the interface was less cluttered than PDVD11. I never did get to do anything as far as using the HDMI out on my lappy or bitstreaming or anything advanced so I can't say anything about it beyond just general usage characteristics.
> 
> ...


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## m4gicfour (Sep 3, 2011)

I'm not entirely sure for TMT5. PCM is capable of being digitally identical to the data in the encoded stream, if the software is decoding it correctly... 

So I guess the answer is 

On an unrelated note, my laptop magically started working again today. You must be good luck or something


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## techguy31 (Sep 3, 2011)

Glad to here your laptop working man, guess my magical words helped you.  I almost have everything working, but I am just have some minor technical difficulties with software and volume.  Will send some photos of my final setup.


m4gicfour said:


> I'm not entirely sure for TMT5. PCM is capable of being digitally identical to the data in the encoded stream, if the software is decoding it correctly...
> 
> So I guess the answer is
> 
> On an unrelated note, my laptop magically started working again today. You must be good luck or something


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