# Two R700s Churn-out  X12515 in 3DMark Vantage



## btarunr (Jun 30, 2008)

AMD, Austin have managed a benchmark score of X12515 in the 3DMark Vantage benchmark using two Radeon HD4870 X2 cards in CrossfireX, a feat that takes three GeForce GTX 280 cards in 3-way SLI to achieve. The R700 boards were clocked at 778 MHz core, while the GDDR5 memory was clocked at 980 MHz QDR (effectively 3.92 GHz). This brings the total on-board video bandwidth to a stellar 250.8 GBps.





With inputs from TG Daily

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## btarunr (Jun 30, 2008)

Probing for, and adding details...


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## tkpenalty (Jun 30, 2008)

holy shit. There is still MUCH better value for performance in this case.... two HD4870X2s are cheaper than three GTX280s by a fair bit. 

AMD really are on a roll. Considering only nvidia chipsets support CF, well..... Nvidia is going to go flying downhill


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## cool_recep (Jun 30, 2008)

They are coming dude, seriously...


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## DaMulta (Jun 30, 2008)

Edit:was wrong, didn't notice the x.



My 3 9800GTX cards murder that score

http://img.techpowerup.org/080630/vantage2.jpg


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## btarunr (Jun 30, 2008)

Ahem, the score in X< number > please?


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## DaMulta (Jun 30, 2008)

btarunr said:


> Ahem, the score in X< number > please?



p19337


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## btarunr (Jun 30, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> p19337



I mean Xtreme settings (example X123456)


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## PrudentPrincess (Jun 30, 2008)

btarunr said:


> AMD, Austin have managed a benchmark score of X12515 in the 3DMark Vantage benchmark using two Radeon HD4870 X2 cards in CrossfireX, a feat that takes three GeForce GTX 280 cards in 3-way SLI to achieve. The R700 boards were clocked at 778 MHz core, while the GDDR5 memory was clocked at 980 MHz QDR (effectively 3.92 GHz). This brings the total on-board video bandwidth to a stellar 250.8 GBps.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah impressive that they could beat three GTX280's, which are still single cored, and are running in the less-efficient tri-sli. AMD is really moving its way up the ladder.


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## DaMulta (Jun 30, 2008)

btarunr said:


> I mean Xtreme settings (example X123456)



Dont know that one yet.


ah I see now lol new to vantage


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## btarunr (Jun 30, 2008)

PrudentPrincess said:


> Yeah impressive that they could beat three GTX280's, which are still single cored, and are running in the less-efficient tri-sli. AMD is really moving its way up the ladder.



Look at it this way: 2x $500 equal 3x $650.


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## PrudentPrincess (Jun 30, 2008)

btarunr said:


> Look at it this way: 2x $500 equal 3x $650.



Nvidia hasn't come out with a dual processor card for this generation, so benchmarks like this mean jack shit.


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## a111087 (Jun 30, 2008)

Don't mind if I do : GO AMD!!!


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## btarunr (Jun 30, 2008)

PrudentPrincess said:


> Nvidia hasn't come out with a dual processor card for this generation, so benchmarks like this mean jack shit.



Who cares about what the card is made of, or how many GPU's it has? As long as it performs on par with an expensive monolithic GPU and remains cheap?


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## DaMulta (Jun 30, 2008)

I was wrong my x score is x6282

GPU 6052
CPU 40461

two r700 together is twice as fast.


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## btarunr (Jun 30, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> I was wrong my x score is x6282
> 
> GPU 6052
> CPU 40461
> ...



If Wile E still has that Maxie board, he'd be grinning now.


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## Morgoth (Jun 30, 2008)

i love it ^^ cant wait to own that beast


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## substance90 (Jun 30, 2008)

I am so glad that AMD is finally coming back to the scene! 4870 X2 kicks ass very hard! If it`s under $450, that will be my next card.


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## DaMulta (Jun 30, 2008)

btarunr said:


> If Wile E still has that Maxie board, he'd be grinning now.



Ture, but for now the 9800GTX cards still fly with whats on the market with vantage.


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## mnm222876 (Jun 30, 2008)

So how fast will the nVidia 280 x2 card be?  

Don't you guys think AMD will get spanked again as soon as the x2 version of the 280 comes out?


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## Morgoth (Jun 30, 2008)

the sould do this benchmark on X58


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## btarunr (Jun 30, 2008)

mnm222876 said:


> So how fast will the nVidia 280 x2 card be?
> 
> Don't you guys think AMD will get spanked again as soon as the x2 version of the 280 comes out?



Until that happens, they hold the crown. With NVIDIA over-reacting to the RV770 (by slashing prices many fold) and the UMAP, the message that goes out is that it will be a while before NV can counter the RV770 / R700 threat using "something new".


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## tkpenalty (Jun 30, 2008)

PrudentPrincess said:


> Nvidia hasn't come out with a dual processor card for this generation, so benchmarks like this mean jack shit.



Sorry but nvidia doesnt always have to make dual cards. You're talking about a card which uses 400W in total. I dont think anyone would want that in their system. is there a moral obligation against dual GPU vs single GPU? GPUs arent like CPUs mate on paper nvidia's GTX280 should be raping the HD4870, BADLY.


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## tkpenalty (Jun 30, 2008)

mnm222876 said:


> So how fast will the nVidia 280 x2 card be?
> 
> Don't you guys think AMD will get spanked again as soon as the x2 version of the 280 comes out?



remember one GTX280 core uses 200W of power. the GTX280 CANNOT take much higher temps than what it runs at, due to the sheer size (technically its a fragile card in contrast to the RV770 thanks to the massive package). 2 GTX280 in close proximity jammed into one slot is suicide.

if nvidia decide to phase out the 9800/9600s, that will be their doom.


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## vojc (Jun 30, 2008)

PrudentPrincess said:


> Nvidia hasn't come out with a dual processor card for this generation, so benchmarks like this mean jack shit.



....and they can/t becouse TDP of 280GTX is on level of x2 4870  so 4870 X2 has TDP 250W, 280GTX GX2 would be  TDP 450W kapis?
2 ATI chps size equals one size of nvidia chip


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## mandelore (Jun 30, 2008)

thats fantastic, way to go ATI...

again, just a benchmark, but one hellova benchmark!

the money saved in getting 2 4870x2's compared to 3 280's is stellar, you could buy a killer mainboard for that and probs some decent ram, lol...


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## tkpenalty (Jun 30, 2008)

Man.. these RV700s are a beast though, cheaper than two GTX 280s, and outdoing three GTX280s. Crazy. Black PCB too  looks mad.


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## psefer (Jun 30, 2008)

All Of Keep Saying How Good The New Ati Cards Are But As Crossfire Is Concerned Two 4870 Crossfire Perfomance Sucks! And I Am Sure That This Is Fake And Even It's Real I Am No Way Convinced That The Performance Of 4870x2 In Crossfire Will Be Good In Games! All Dual Chip Cards Allways Suffer From Stuttering And Usual The 2nd Dual Card Causes The Stuttering. I Have Tried All Quad Sli Setups And Quad Crossfire Cards And Performance In Games Sucks!
I Don't Believe That Ati/amd Managed To Fix Their Drivers! We Just Have To Wait And See! Fan Speed Bug On 4870 & 4850 ? Ha Ha Ha Ha!


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## mandelore (Jun 30, 2008)

you are wrong, the 4870x2 uses a new gpu interconnect bus that enhances scalability and as far as im aware makes the card appear as a single gpu. unlike the 3870x2 which uses an internal crossfire bridge, the 4870x2 uses something for more effective and should eliminate the microstutter

Edit: you didnt just create an account to bad mouth particular companies, did you? as that would be very sad... lol


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## tkpenalty (Jun 30, 2008)

psefer said:


> All Of Keep Saying How Good The New Ati Cards Are But As Crossfire Is Concerned Two 4870 Crossfire Perfomance Sucks! And I Am Sure That This Is Fake And Even It's Real I Am No Way Convinced That The Performance Of 4870x2 In Crossfire Will Be Good In Games! All Dual Chip Cards Allways Suffer From Stuttering And Usual The 2nd Dual Card Causes The Stuttering. I Have Tried All Quad Sli Setups And Quad Crossfire Cards And Performance In Games Sucks!
> I Don't Believe That Ati/amd Managed To Fix Their Drivers! We Just Have To Wait And See! Fan Speed Bug On 4870 & 4850 ? Ha Ha Ha Ha!



Mate, DO NOT TYPE YOUR WHOLE POST IN CAPS.

ALL OF YOU KEEP SAYING HOW GOOD THE NEW ATI CARDS ARE BUT AS FAR AS CROSSFIRE IS CONCERNED TWO 4870 CROSSFIRE PERFORMANCE SUCKS! AND IM SURE THAT THIS IS FAKE AND EVEN IT'S REAL I AM NO WAY CONVINCED THAT THE PERFORMANCE OF THE 4870X2 IN CROSSFIRE WIL BE GOOD IN GAMES! ALL DUAL CHIP CARDS ALLWAYS SUFFER FROM STUTTERING AND THE USUAL 2ND DUAL ARD CAUSES THE STUTTERING. I HAVE TRIED ALL QUA SLI SETUPS AND QUAD CROSSFIRE CARDS AND PERFORMANE IN GAMES SUCKS!
I DON'T BELIEVE THAT ATI/AMD MANAGED TO FIX THEIR DRIVERS! WE JUST HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE! FAN SPEED BUG ON 4870 & 4850 ? HA HA HA HA!

^Is that the spam you wanted to post?


All dual chip cards sufer from stuttering? ORLY now. My friend's Dual 9800GX2 setup was virtually free from such an issue. If you call me blind or whatever I'll label you as a troll. Photos or it didnt happen.


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## psefer (Jun 30, 2008)

No I Didn't Signed Up To Say Bad Things About A Company. But Lately Ati Performance Is Dissapointing! I Think That We Should Start Caring About The Performance In Games! Higher 3d Mark Scores Doesn't Mean Higher Performance In Games! We Should Always Stick To Better Performance In The Games Especially In Minumum Frame Rate! Who Cares If A Card Scores Better In 3d Mark But Sucks In Games! We Buy Graphic Cards To Play Games Not To Benchmark! All Of Us Have To Decide What We Are : Gamers ? Or Benchmarkers ?


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## btarunr (Jun 30, 2008)

But for RV770, the 3DMark scores _do_ translate to high performance in games?


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## tkpenalty (Jun 30, 2008)

psefer said:


> No I Didn't Signed Up To Say Bad Things About A Company. But Lately Ati Performance Is Dissapointing! I Think That We Should Start Caring About The Performance In Games! Higher 3d Mark Scores Doesn't Mean Higher Performance In Games! We Should Always Stick To Better Performance In The Games Especially In Minumum Frame Rate! Who Cares If A Card Scores Better In 3d Mark But Sucks In Games! We Buy Graphic Cards To Play Games Not To Benchmark! All Of Us Have To Decide What We Are : Gamers ? Or Benchmarkers ?



stop typing in caps. Its rude. you're fortunate that the forum wont display your whole post in caps. So if you say AMD sucks so much, nvidia must be in a worse position-so you are saying that ALL GPUS SUCK. 

We dont need to hear your angst.


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## mandelore (Jun 30, 2008)

lol omg... ATI performance dissapointing?

you gotta be kidding?

they are manufacturing cards that cost a fraction of their direct competators and are running on par with them!

Hell, the 4870x2 is gonna hold the crown untill NV can bring out something new, so you are really ignorant if you believe ATI is being dissapointing? lol

Hell, for example,  id rather pay $200 less for a card that is on par or even a few % behind its competator, it just makes sense, and the scalability, ability to add as you go, it is all very impressive

anyways, moving on and back to topic; 

a banana on a rail track is not gonna derail this thread


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## tkpenalty (Jun 30, 2008)

mandelore said:


> a banana on a rail track is not gonna derail this thread



SIGQUOTED ROFLROFLROFLROFLAMBO

does anyone have pics of the card itself?


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## Megasty (Jun 30, 2008)

Life & graphics card companies are pretty similar. Each have its ups & downs, highs & low, victories & defeats. Seeing this thread is a good indication of how far fanboism will go. There are only 2 _real _facts about these cards that true consumers should pay attention to: *The 4870x2 is faster than the GTX280. The 4870x2 is cheaper than the GTX280.* ...& yet some ppl still think the GTX280 is better for some dumb reason, this is unforgiveable. We must find some way to alleviate these ppl from this plait


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## tkpenalty (Jun 30, 2008)

Megasty said:


> Life & graphics card companies are pretty similar. Each have its ups & downs, highs & low, victories & defeats. Seeing this thread is a good indication of how far fanboism will go. There are only 2 _real _facts about these cards that true consumers should pay attention to: *The 4870x2 is faster than the GTX280. The 4870x2 is cheaper than the GTX280.* ...& yet some ppl still think the GTX280 is better for some dumb reason, this is unforgiveable. We must find some way to alleviate these ppl from this plait



I dont see anyone in Australia who i know who intend on buying the GTX2xxs.... I only see three kinds: 4850 owners, 4870 owners, or people waiting for the R700.


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## mandelore (Jun 30, 2008)

True, but everyone has been guilty of being loyal to ones "cause" at some point. But when hard facts stare you in the face, and then left hook you one, you gotta pay attention


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## btarunr (Jun 30, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> does anyone have pics of the card itself?



Kind of poor quality but this one is installed:







Did you notice, they're running it using two 6-pin power inputs instead of 6 pin + 8 pin?


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## mandelore (Jun 30, 2008)

i have to say the black theme adopted by the x2 is something it needed to seperate it from the rest of the lineup coz this card is finally something ATI should and are proud of (id hope)

Red theme, nah, this is apparently one slick card, so black all the way


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## mandelore (Jun 30, 2008)

btarunr said:


> Kind of poor quality but this one is installed:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



wondering, are they gonna restrict overclocking to a full 6+8pin config? 

I cant remember where i seen the peak power consumption list, or even if the 4870x2 was included but im wondering about my PSU, given can run my qx9650 way over 4ghz, and run my 2900xt at 925core for 24/gaming no probs, is this gonna be sufficient?


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## btarunr (Jun 30, 2008)

For a single card, yes I think 36~40A (12V) should suffice for the entire system with the OC as well. Corsair claims its VX450W (that has a single 33A 12V rail) runs a 9800 GX2 / HD3870X2 just fine. You get the idea.


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## H82LUZ73 (Jun 30, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> SIGQUOTED ROFLROFLROFLROFLAMBO
> 
> does anyone have pics of the card itself?



Hows this ? http://www.tweaktown.com/popImg.php?img=news_4870x2cpenk1.jpg

more here .http://www.tweaktown.com/news/9741/rv770_based_radeon_hd_4870_x2_stripped_naked/index.html

notice the PCI-E 2.0 bridge chip has the specs hidden.This is directed to the Nivida Fanboy above.....So long micro-stutter mythology


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## btarunr (Jun 30, 2008)

He was asking about a fully-clothed card.


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## Hayder_Master (Jun 30, 2008)

wooooooooow very cool , that what i wait for


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## Megasty (Jun 30, 2008)

Black on black with that red fan & copper HS is just gonna look badass. A black fan would have probably been too much black to still consider a _red _card


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## H82LUZ73 (Jun 30, 2008)

btarunr said:


> He was asking about a fully-clothed card.



oh ,

 I think the cooler will look similar to the 3870 X2 one,But some company`s might use the Thermal-Take Dual Orb on them .


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## REVHEAD (Jun 30, 2008)

PrudentPrincess said:


> Nvidia hasn't come out with a dual processor card for this generation, so benchmarks like this mean jack shit.



Some Nvidia Fanboy looks a little peeved never mind I am sure Nvidia will be back ontop in the next 24 months, it will take them that long to play catch up ,and the Intel debarcle is slowing them down ^^


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## mandelore (Jun 30, 2008)

H82LUZ73 said:


> Hows this ? http://www.tweaktown.com/popImg.php?img=news_4870x2cpenk1.jpg
> 
> more here .http://www.tweaktown.com/news/9741/rv770_based_radeon_hd_4870_x2_stripped_naked/index.html
> 
> notice the PCI-E 2.0 bridge chip has the specs hidden.This is directed to the Nivida Fanboy above.....So long micro-stutter mythology



yeah i read that article and another similar, 15% gains over crossfired cards is NICE. and thats not even accounting for overclocking


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## H82LUZ73 (Jun 30, 2008)

Megasty said:


> Black on black with that red fan & copper HS is just gonna look badass. A black fan would have probably been too much black to still consider a _red _card



This is probably an ASUS Republic For Gamers card,Hence the Black PCB like they use on all the high end Mother Boards.


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## Megasty (Jun 30, 2008)

H82LUZ73 said:


> This is probably an ASUS Republic For Gamers card,Hence the Black PCB like they use on all the high end Mother Boards.



Not likely, ROG cards are usually released mid-way through a series' lifespan after ASUS has some time to tweak them & add their own cooling. Plus this appears to be a prototype card no matter how you look at it.


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## H82LUZ73 (Jun 30, 2008)

mandelore said:


> yeah i read that article and another similar, 15% gains over crossfired cards is NICE. and thats not even accounting for overclocking




yeah I like AMD/ATI alot still have one of ATI`s first x286 video cards(thing is like 10.5 inches long) with 4 meg memory.Anyways here is a funny story for you guys,About 2 weeks ago in STEAM I had the new ATI logo as my icon,And some Vidia fan made me change it,I told him he was going to regret buying the GTX280,So i`m laughing at him now...those cards are for guys who have more money then brains....


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## btarunr (Jun 30, 2008)

H82LUZ73 said:


> This is probably an ASUS Republic For Gamers card,Hence the Black PCB like they use on all the high end Mother Boards.



The one in that pic? No, that's the reference ATI cooler. Black PCB, black heatspreader on the memory on the other side of the PCB, black see-through cooler cover, copper-rich sinks over the GPU's a common plate over the memory, lane-arbiter chip, MOSFETs. The fan is the usual red. It's the same fan design (leaf-blower) used in the R600 and R680 by the looks.


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## H82LUZ73 (Jun 30, 2008)

btarunr said:


> The one in that pic? No, that's the reference ATI cooler. Black PCB, black heatspreader on the memory on the other side of the PCB, black see-through cooler cover, copper-rich sinks over the GPU's a common plate over the memory, lane-arbiter chip, MOSFETs. The fan is the usual red. It's the same fan design (leaf-blower) used in the R600 and R680 by the looks.



Wow so what color is ASUS going to use for the just announced ROG line? I do love black but won`t the all black theme attract heat?


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## H82LUZ73 (Jun 30, 2008)

Megasty said:


> Not likely, ROG cards are usually released mid-way through a series' lifespan after ASUS has some time to tweak them & add their own cooling. Plus this appears to be a prototype card no matter how you look at it.


 So why is it being release Q3 ?


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## lemonadesoda (Jun 30, 2008)

Despite the naysaying from psefer, there are a couple of points that are true:

1./ The 280 is still better than the 4870. You need to x2 the 4870. But then a 280 SLI is still better.
2./ nVidia is therefore the performance winner, but with a very very big BUT
3./ ATI's price/performance ratio is very much better. For anyone on a budget, ATI wins.
4./ If nVidia can get prices down, it has a nice competitive product. The problem is that size of their die and the high failure rates.
5./ The economics are therefore in ATI's favour.
6./ But ATi is still hitting some odd bottlenecks. With 800 shaders >2x the R6xx and with 40 TMU >2x the R6xx, we are NOT seeing >2x performance in games or synthetics. YES, the R7xx is a fantastic performer, but NO, it isnt scaling as well as many of us predicted. There's a bottleneck there that needs to be fixed
7./ ATI has got a few architecture tweaks to fix. And drivers to enhance, esp. to make use of the currently unutilised tessellators
8./ R8xx will be tastey. But so will GTX380 on 55nm.
9./ If nVidia was *BOLD* they would stomp on their retail prices to keep GTX250/280 more competitive.
10./ Then we could FINALLY stop of this (anti-)fanboism.

If, if, if...

But NOW, ATI wins.


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## mandelore (Jun 30, 2008)

thing is, if you have a set budget, within that budget you are more than likely to get more performance from ATI at the moment within any price bracket


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## btarunr (Jun 30, 2008)

H82LUZ73 said:


> Wow so what color is ASUS going to use for the just announced ROG line? I do love black but won`t the all black theme attract heat?



"all-black" is what NV use for their premium products too. They've used it for the all-black lunch-box called 9800 GX2, it ran at acceptable temperatures. The R700 design is a little more airy, the "little hide, little show, black slip" kind  

Of-course concerns eating people could be that the fan pushes air pre-heated by the second GPU onto the first one, unlike the 9800 GX2 having more uniformity with heat transfer, but this is made up for by maybe bigger heatsink over the 1st GPU?...like the R680 had. The heat-pipes distribute heat evenly between the sinks.


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## Megasty (Jun 30, 2008)

H82LUZ73 said:


> So why is it being release Q3 ?



I mean mid-way through the release of the particular card. ASUS never release ROG cards when the reference design first comes out.


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## MoA (Jun 30, 2008)

haha its funny to see people argue lol

Some people don't admit 4870x2 is better by saying it's 2 core lol
Bi-turbo is better than turbo  but its same price of even less 
Number is not a reason, some ppl still prefer E8400 than Q6600 even though it's only 2 core lol.
All which matters is PERFORMANCE AND PRICE LOL !!!

Benchmarks do proves that there will be more fps.... what are they for otherwise LOL.
Of course the game engine depends too


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## newconroer (Jun 30, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> holy shit. There is still MUCH better value for performance in this case.... two HD4870X2s are cheaper than three GTX280s by a fair bit.
> 
> AMD really are on a roll. Considering only nvidia chipsets support CF, well..... Nvidia is going to go flying downhill



Because of a good Vantage score?

It's amazing what people base their speculations off of..SPECULATIONS none the less.

Sheesh.


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## sam0t (Jun 30, 2008)

^ Probably been posted before but it's such a hot card 

edit:

There is a whole thread dedicated for these pics. Double


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## Makaveli (Jun 30, 2008)

btarunr said:


> Look at it this way: 2x $500 equal 3x $650.




Doesn't 1 4870 cost $300 so isn't that $300 x2 = $650 x3?


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## mab1376 (Jun 30, 2008)

that cant be right i get that with my one 8800GTS (G80) with shown specs.

or is that run in Vista, that would explain it.
that resource hog of an OS....


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## Megasty (Jun 30, 2008)

Makaveli said:


> Doesn't 1 4870 cost $300 so isn't that $300 x2 = $650 x3?



The 4870x2 should cost about $500 while the GTX280 costs $650. It takes 2 4870x2s to get a X12000 score while it takes 3 GTX280s to get the same. So $1000 = $1950


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## newconroer (Jun 30, 2008)

Don't tell me we're now trying to go with 'price/performance' comparisons for multiple high end card CF/SLI setups, that serve no purpose except for synthetic benching....


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## flashstar (Jun 30, 2008)

newconroer said:


> Don't tell me we're now trying to go with 'price/performance' comparisons for multiple high end card CF/SLI setups, that serve no purpose except for synthetic benching....



Have you used a R700 in games? no. 

How could you make this assumption?


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## H82LUZ73 (Jun 30, 2008)

btarunr said:


> "all-black" is what NV use for their premium products too. They've used it for the all-black lunch-box called 9800 GX2, it ran at acceptable temperatures. The R700 design is a little more airy, the "little hide, little show, black slip" kind
> 
> Of-course concerns eating people could be that the fan pushes air pre-heated by the second GPU onto the first one, unlike the 9800 GX2 having more uniformity with heat transfer, but this is made up for by maybe bigger heatsink over the 1st GPU?...like the R680 had.



So it is AMD/ATI giving NV the bird then,Just one cool looking card,No not arguing with anyone just asking questions about why the black color.Last time I seen an ATI card that was not RED was the old RageII or Rage 128 (the one that was dual cored ) Was the old green PCB.


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## H82LUZ73 (Jun 30, 2008)

newconroer said:


> Because of a good Vantage score?
> 
> It's amazing what people base their speculations off of..SPECULATIONS none the less.
> 
> Sheesh.



So what was it that made you buy that 8800 then ?


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## H82LUZ73 (Jun 30, 2008)

lemonadesoda said:


> Despite the naysaying from psefer, there are a couple of points that are true:
> 
> 1./ The 280 is still better than the 4870. You need to x2 the 4870. But then a 280 SLI is still better.
> 2./ nVidia is therefore the performance winner, but with a very very big BUT
> ...



Don`t forget ATI still using the same shaders core speeds,They will raise them in the next release.


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Jun 30, 2008)

Now that ATi seems to be "kicking out teet'", to use local jamaican terms we've started to se a lot of irrational posts on TPU. My advice to corporate endorsers (aka fanbois), lighten up, do you have any stock in nvidia?


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## chron (Jun 30, 2008)

Now I have some questions... 1: How much? and 2: will a p5w dh deluxe be too much of a bottleneck for 2 4870x2's at 1680x1050?


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## zOaib (Jun 30, 2008)

PrudentPrincess said:


> Nvidia hasn't come out with a dual processor card for this generation, so benchmarks like this mean jack shit.



yes also one with a 1000 dollars price tag too .............. yeah they havent come out with one yet , but soon, nvidia never lets the crazies down.


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## zOaib (Jun 30, 2008)

psefer said:


> All Of Keep Saying How Good The New Ati Cards Are But As Crossfire Is Concerned Two 4870 Crossfire Perfomance Sucks! And I Am Sure That This Is Fake And Even It's Real I Am No Way Convinced That The Performance Of 4870x2 In Crossfire Will Be Good In Games! All Dual Chip Cards Allways Suffer From Stuttering And Usual The 2nd Dual Card Causes The Stuttering. I Have Tried All Quad Sli Setups And Quad Crossfire Cards And Performance In Games Sucks!
> I Don't Believe That Ati/amd Managed To Fix Their Drivers! We Just Have To Wait And See! Fan Speed Bug On 4870 & 4850 ? Ha Ha Ha Ha!



i hear your mom calling in the background .........


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## WarEagleAU (Jun 30, 2008)

Behold the King, the King of Kings! Bow down to the, bow down to the King! (Triple H's Music)

That is very awesome. But remember, 3 GTX 280s are single gpus. The x2 equals out to 4 total so.


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Jun 30, 2008)

but to my wallet ... 4 < 3 ...


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## Voyager (Jun 30, 2008)

great!

Will be there any 4600 series?


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## zOaib (Jun 30, 2008)

WarEagleAU said:


> Behold the King, the King of Kings! Bow down to the, bow down to the King! (Triple H's Music)
> 
> That is very awesome. But remember, 3 GTX 280s are single gpus. The x2 equals out to 4 total so.



4 = 1000 usd

3=  1950 usd 

if u get 4 for 950 less isnt that a bargain plus you dont have to own your own power generating stattion for the triple sli .....

what i dont understand is ppl talking about it isnt fair to use 2 gpus to beat single gpu , well i got one word ( actually its a sentence ).......... if my V8 costs less to beat an over priced V6 car ........... which one shud i get .


----------



## mdm-adph (Jun 30, 2008)

Voyager said:


> great!
> 
> Will be there any 4600 series?



Yeah, what about us midrange people? 

Seriously, I was actually going to CF two 3650's together just for the hell of it, but only if I can get a 3650 _really_ cheap one day.


----------



## Deleted member 3 (Jun 30, 2008)

vojc said:


> ....and they can/t becouse TDP of 280GTX is on level of x2 4870  so 4870 X2 has TDP 250W, 280GTX GX2 would be  TDP 450W kapis?
> 2 ATI chps size equals one size of nvidia chip



That, and bta's financial argument are bad for NV. Can't compete at power consumption o price level. However, that 9800GTX+ doesn't look bad, so I guess NV will be fine in the segments where the money is.
As long as NV markets their card as the fastest and responds to the x2 with "but those are two cards" the world will still fall for it. And last time I checked, NV is better at marketing than ATI/AMD.

Also it's "capisce", as it isn't the most friendly choice of words you should at least spell it correctly.


----------



## Megasty (Jun 30, 2008)

WarEagleAU said:


> Behold the King, the King of Kings! Bow down to the, bow down to the King! (Triple H's Music)
> 
> That is very awesome. But remember, 3 GTX 280s are single gpus. The x2 equals out to 4 total so.



 

Which one would I rather buy, a $500 (AA) that completely beats a $650 (B) that hardly beats a $300 (A): AA>>B>A so $500>>$650>$300. Its a Paradox that will never make sense - unless NV lower their prices or ppl just blow sick amounts of cash on names instead of researching first. That's why kids can't afford things of this nature...


----------



## btarunr (Jun 30, 2008)

Even in mainstream segments, there's a bad deal from NV. Sure, for $230 you get a 9800 GTX+, but for $69 more you get a HD4870 that equals/beats the GTX 260 _and the 9800 GX2 according to some reviews_.

Something hints that this 2x R700 bench was run on a machine running a Phenom X4.


----------



## Deleted member 3 (Jun 30, 2008)

btarunr said:


> Even in mainstream segments, there's a bad deal from NV. Sure, for $230 you get a 9800 GTX+, but for $69 more you get a HD4870 that equals/beats the GTX 260 _and the 9800 GX2 according to some reviews_.
> 
> Something hints that this 2x R700 bench was run on a machine running a Phenom X4.



There always is the for $x more you can have a *insert item* argument.
Besides, $69 is 30% more, not exactly "a bit' more. Considering it isn't near 30% faster than a 9800GTX and the + being faster than the normal GTX I hardly believe NV is that far behind.


----------



## VanguardGX (Jun 30, 2008)

Why do people use the fact that the X2 is a dual chip card as if it’s a bad thing? So what if it’s a dual chip card, it’s gonna be faster than the GTX280 and not to mention cheaper.
Another thing is people keep sayin ATi will lead til the green team makes a 280GX2? Cmon people lets be serious that’s not gonna happened, well not this generation. Do you want a GPU that burns 400+ watts? Didn’t think so.


----------



## MoA (Jun 30, 2008)

VanguardGX said:


> Why do people use the fact that the X2 is a dual chip card as if it’s a bad thing? So what if it’s a dual chip card, it’s gonna be faster than the GTX280 and not to mention cheaper.
> Another thing is people keep sayin ATi will lead til the green team makes a 280GX2? Cmon people lets be serious that’s not gonna happened, well not this generation. Do you want a GPU that burns 400+ watts? Didn’t think so.



hahah pretty obvious answer:
because they need a reason for themselves to believe why Nvidia is better


----------



## vojc (Jun 30, 2008)

it is what intel does with quad core, just stick 2 + 2 cores, do does AMD/ati at graphic market.
Nvidia on other side is don`t know how to do single board dual gpu, so they are only able to stick 2 boards together


----------



## btarunr (Jun 30, 2008)

vojc said:


> it is what intel does with quad core, just stick 2 + 2 cores, do does AMD/ati at graphic market.
> Nvidia on other side is don`t know how to do single board dual gpu, so they are only able to stick 2 boards together



It's not that they don't know. Never underestimate the engineering prowess of NVIDIA. It's just that the power and thermal characteristics of their GPUs don't allow sticking two of them onto one board.


----------



## 0o0o0 (Jun 30, 2008)

PrudentPrincess said:


> Nvidia hasn't come out with a dual processor card for this generation, so benchmarks like this mean jack shit.


Uhum,
Do you really think that Nvidia is going to make a GTX280 X2? 2x 500mm² on 1 card, then you need to have an extreme fan to keep them cool, with a standard fan they could reach 100-110°C.
And euh, 1 GTX280 costs 650$, a GTX280 X2 would be 1200$ or so. Who would buy that?

Congratz AMD, nice job


----------



## DaMulta (Jun 30, 2008)

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=191313
k|ngp|n did that on all air. That's 3 GPUs vs 4 gpus. If Nvidia does come out with a dual card again, I think it could really put a hurting on the x2.(this is before physics drivers I think)


Then he turned around and did this wow.







0o0o0 said:


> Uhum,
> Do you really think that Nvidia is going to make a GTX280 X2? 2x 500mm² on 1 card, then you need to have an extreme fan to keep them cool, with a standard fan they could reach 100-110°C.
> And euh, 1 GTX280 costs 650$, a GTX280 X2 would be 1200$ or so. Who would buy that?
> 
> Congratz AMD, nice job



Maybe on the next die shrink.


----------



## Morgoth (Jun 30, 2008)

now try to beat hd4870x2 in crossfire with bloomfield on 4ghz


----------



## btarunr (Jun 30, 2008)

Wonder what a brutal overclocker such as k|p can do to these cards on a Intel platform. In similar publications by both TG Daily and Tom's Hardware, the slide (in the first post) uses a resource-name "3dmarkonnextgenphenom" leading me to guess they ran it on a Bulldozer


----------



## mlupple (Jun 30, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> Edit:was wrong
> 
> 
> 
> ...



DaMulta, no offense, but for someone who spends 5 million dollars on graphics cards, you are a moron.


----------



## VanguardGX (Jun 30, 2008)

@DaMulta
First thing the 4870X2 is still seen as 1 card even though it has two cores. So its still 2 cards VS 3.

EDIT: and as i keep saying 280GX2, not gonna happen anytime soon.

EDIT again: Hope this does not piss of any Nv fan boys in the building but i just thought it was funnyhttp://news.softpedia.com/images/news2/NVIDIA-to-Release-GTX-280-GX2-4.jpg


----------



## Deleted member 3 (Jun 30, 2008)

mlupple said:


> DaMulta, no offense, but for someone who spends 5 million dollars on graphics cards, you are a moron.



For someone with two posts, one being fanboyism and another being a direct insult towards another member you deserve a warning. Consider this it.


----------



## DaMulta (Jun 30, 2008)

mlupple said:


> DaMulta, no offense, but for someone who spends 5 million dollars on graphics cards, you are a moron.



When you compete in 3dmark score is all that matters, not how much it cost.

 It would still cost a thousand dollars for 2 x2 cards which is also a lot of money.



VanguardGX said:


> @DaMulta
> First thing the 4870X2 is still seen as 1 card even though it has two cores. So its still 2 cards VS 3.
> 
> EDIT: and as i keep saying 280GX2, not gonna happen anytime soon.
> ...



The x2 is going to be a great card for the money, but when you want more than that the 280 will be the way to go. I know that it is considered a single card, but the fact is that it is 3 cores vs 4.


----------



## farlex85 (Jun 30, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> The x2 is going to be a great card for the money, but when you want more than that the 280 will be the way to go. I know that it is considered a single card, but the fact is that it is 3 cores vs 4.



I don't think so, b/c as far as I know you still can't put 4 single cards in sli. This means maxed out ati becomes the top dog (and costs much less doing so). The only way nvidia can re-claim the performance crown now is if and when they are able to make a dual gt200, which may be a while.


----------



## Morgoth (Jun 30, 2008)

btarunr said:


> Wonder what a brutal overclocker such as k|p can do to these cards on a Intel platform. In similar publications by both TG Daily and Tom's Hardware, the slide (in the first post) uses a resource-name "3dmarkonnextgenphenom" leading me to guess they ran it on a Bulldozer



lol if that was true, then its true that nehalem is again a superior architecture


----------



## DaMulta (Jun 30, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> I don't think so, b/c as far as I know you still can't put 4 single cards in sli. This means maxed out ati becomes the top dog (and costs much less doing so). The only way nvidia can re-claim the performance crown now is if and when they are able to make a dual gt200, which may be a while.



I don't know if they can take the top 280 score in vantage as it is now. Yes, I think it will be a while before and if we see a dual card with the 280. But they do have loads of cash that they could throw at it and have it on the market in record time.


----------



## btarunr (Jun 30, 2008)

Morgoth said:


> lol if that was true, then its true that nehalem is again a superior architecture



go to the tgdaily link in the 1st post. The Phenom 9950 manages 11000-change xtreme CPU score. DaMulta's YF manages 40000 in performance score. 

I bet this would have been a better bench _if_ they ran it on a Intel setup though I'm just guessing they didn't.


----------



## farlex85 (Jun 30, 2008)

btarunr said:


> go to the tgdaily link in the 1st post. The Phenom 9950 manages 11000-change xtreme CPU score. DaMulta's YF manages 40000 in performance score.
> 
> I bet this would have been a better bench _if_ they ran it on a Intel setup though I'm just guessing they didn't.



That's physX causing the 40k cpu score, intel or amd doesn't have as much to do w/ it. W/o physX he still gets like 18k on the cpu score though. I get 30k in vantage cpu w/ a 6750 w/ physX.


----------



## vojc (Jun 30, 2008)

as far as i know test has been done on 3.3GHz 65nm phenom, next gen phenom is only 45nm and 3 or 6MB L3, so not a big deal, still slover than q6600 OCed.
so wait for bench on 4GHz quad intel proc. (must get ~x15000).
......and for all nvidiots well 4 GPU vs nvidia 3 GPU that is 10cm^2 VS 15CM^2 on nvidia, or if i say 500w TDP VS 700W TDP or better....... ~900$ VS 1800$ 
i hope  that all nvidiots understand what i am saying


----------



## HTC (Jun 30, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> http://overclockingpin.com/final%20gtx280/triple-790i-air-X.jpg
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=191313
> k|ngp|n did that on all air. That's 3 GPUs vs 4 gpus. If Nvidia does come out with a dual card again, I think it could really put a hurting on the x2.*(this is before physics drivers I think)*
> 
> ...



Judging by the CPU score, i would definitely say it's with physX. Heck: even the pic's name suggests it.


I think the Vantage eXtreme score of the 2*R700 will turn out better then what is shown in the OP *BUT* it will fall behind 3*GTX280.

That said, *if 2*R700 come close to 3*GTX280*, that will mean total defeat to nVidia's because it would mean that nVidia would need 3 cards to beat ATI's 2 cards (i'm not talking cores here) and, on top of that, ATI's cards will be cheaper, which makes it even worse.


Also, and i believe this to be *VERY* relevant: does anyone know if that ATI score was made with the physX thingy? If it wasn't, ...

ATI should be working on their version of physX drivers or whatever you call it to try and make an appropriate response to CUDA, no?


----------



## btarunr (Jun 30, 2008)

vojc said:


> as far as i know test has been done on 3.3GHz 65nm phenom,



I can haz source?

...so I could feed the news with a little more detail.


----------



## farlex85 (Jun 30, 2008)

HTC said:


> Also, and i believe this to be *VERY* relevant: does anyone know if that ATI score was made with the physX thingy? If it wasn't, ...
> 
> ATI should be working on their version of physX drivers or whatever you call it to try and make an appropriate response to CUDA, no?



Havoc is the ati's rumoured response to physX. We'll see when it takes action, maybe around the same time as the 4870x2.


----------



## vojc (Jun 30, 2008)

btarunr said:


> I can haz source?
> 
> ...so I could feed the news with a little more detail.



fudzilla i think


----------



## HTC (Jun 30, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> Havoc is the ati's rumoured response to physX. We'll see when it takes action, maybe around the same time as the 4870x2.



Yes, i know about Havok, but it's still unknown, @ this time, when such a thing will be available, if ever *knocks on wood 3 times, hoping it does soon*.

I posted "physX thingy" because, @ present, there's that modified something to enable physX on ATI, besides Havok.


----------



## Morgoth (Jun 30, 2008)

btarunr said:


> go to the tgdaily link in the 1st post. The Phenom 9950 manages 11000-change xtreme CPU score. DaMulta's YF manages 40000 in performance score.
> 
> I bet this would have been a better bench _if_ they ran it on a Intel setup though I'm just guessing they didn't.



http://resources.vr-zone.com//newspics/Jun08/02/bloomfieldx58.jpg
thats just on 2,66ghz


----------



## farlex85 (Jun 30, 2008)

HTC said:


> Yes, i know about Havok, but it's still unknown, @ this time, when such a thing will be available, if ever (knocks on wood 3 times ...).
> 
> I posted "physX thingy" because, @ present, there's that modified something to enable physX on ATI, besides Havok.



Yeah I think I saw something about that too. I'm not sure how that would work though, at least not to the same degree. PhysX is derived from Cuda technology right? And nvidia has licensing on that I though, so I don't see how Ati could really run it, maybe artificially or something. Oh when did the graphics industry become so complicated......


----------



## crow1001 (Jun 30, 2008)

The new ATI cards are amazing, the XFIRE scaling just blows NV's SLI efforst, ATI have delivered big time with the new cards, i hope NV take notice because the ATI 4000 series has made NV's 200 series look rather comical at their current price, oh ye, my M8 just got an 4870 and the AA performance is out of this world, most games only take a 10fps hit with 4x AA ENABLED.


----------



## vojc (Jun 30, 2008)

my bad, it was 45nm phenom at 3.3g ( i belive if it is a ATI bench result)
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/71821/


----------



## PrudentPrincess (Jun 30, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Sorry but nvidia doesnt always have to make dual cards. You're talking about a card which uses 400W in total. I dont think anyone would want that in their system. is there a moral obligation against dual GPU vs single GPU? GPUs arent like CPUs mate on paper nvidia's GTX280 should be raping the HD4870, BADLY.



I think my point got a little blurred through people quoting what I was saying. What I meant was that although we're seeing a good xtreme score for this benchmark when comparing it to three GTX280's, we're not comparing it to GTX280 cards that have the new phyx drivers, (yes, it matters, you're already using a benchmark and there is no other bench data available) are overclocked, etc. In all reality for a couple generations now Nvidia has had a horrible price-performance ratio on their cards, but people buy them because they're always the higher performer. (remember the 8800 Ultra?)I don't even think we should take price into consideration when we're replying to a post about performance on a benchmarking program that can double your CPU score with physx drivers. What we need to do is cool our jets, wait for more benches to come out and see what happens. The fact that we're doing speculation on a card that isn't released is all-together stupid. It is nice to know that AMD is still a power-player though.


----------



## Hazar (Jun 30, 2008)

im have that video card  and played Crysis, on high setting (1600x1200 4x AA and 16x Anis)


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## vojc (Jun 30, 2008)

Hazar said:


> im have that video card  and played Crysis, on high setting (1600x1200 4x AA and 16x Anis)


Now that is a legend 
s3 made some god cards of their time (savage4, savage 2000)


----------



## cdawall (Jun 30, 2008)

psefer said:


> All Of Keep Saying How Good The New Ati Cards Are But As Crossfire Is Concerned Two 4870 Crossfire Perfomance Sucks! And I Am Sure That This Is Fake And Even It's Real I Am No Way Convinced That The Performance Of 4870x2 In Crossfire Will Be Good In Games! All Dual Chip Cards Allways Suffer From Stuttering And Usual The 2nd Dual Card Causes The Stuttering. I Have Tried All Quad Sli Setups And Quad Crossfire Cards And Performance In Games Sucks!
> I Don't Believe That Ati/amd Managed To Fix Their Drivers! We Just Have To Wait And See! Fan Speed Bug On 4870 & 4850 ? Ha Ha Ha Ha!



to you all i have to say is check my sys specs and i ask were the stuttering is cause i haven't seen it


also for this just for those who don't know because of the new interconnect chip you can run *4* 4870X2s together for *octafire*


----------



## candle_86 (Jun 30, 2008)

i wish the GTX280 had arrived earlier on time back at the end of 07 like it was supposed to. I know i like the new aTI cards, but i still support Nvidia, and the GTX280 would have broken AMD's back and put millions out there lowering the amount of HD4k cards sold over all. Kinda like how the 7800GTX outsold the x1800XT. But alas nvidia has to rely on there lower end cards to make a profit


----------



## Deleted member 3 (Jun 30, 2008)

Morgoth said:


> lol if that was true, then its true that nehalem is again a superior architecture



You know that with all your Nehalem talk you are expected to have the most badass Nehalem system on the forums when it's out right?


----------



## farlex85 (Jun 30, 2008)

candle_86 said:


> i wish the GTX280 had arrived earlier on time back at the end of 07 like it was supposed to. I know i like the new aTI cards, but i still support Nvidia, and the GTX280 would have broken AMD's back and put millions out there lowering the amount of HD4k cards sold over all. Kinda like how the 7800GTX outsold the x1800XT. But alas nvidia has to rely on there lower end cards to make a profit



And this would be a good thing so you could pay even more ridiculous prices in a competition-less market?


----------



## cdawall (Jun 30, 2008)

DanTheBanjoman said:


> You know that with all your Nehalem talk you are expected to have the most badass Nehalem system on the forums when it's out right?



$10 says he sticks with his preshit for a while longer


----------



## candle_86 (Jun 30, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> And this would be a good thing so you could pay even more ridiculous prices in a competition-less market?



no AMD would have there day today still.

One thing is though Nvidia drivers arn't mature either, and these cards do not preform like they should for being double a G92, so i think time will tell what happens


----------



## farlex85 (Jun 30, 2008)

candle_86 said:


> no AMD would have there day today still.
> 
> One thing is though Nvidia drivers arn't mature either, and these cards do not preform like they should for being double a G92, so i think time will tell what happens



Eh, I think this is very good for amd, they need it. They are falling farther and farther behind in the cpu market, ati is going to have to be their saving grace. And if nvidia puts them too low, well then we're screwed.

None of the drivers are fully worked out, and none of the capabilites of either line of cards has been seen yet b/c there really isn't the proper software to test it. In a few months things should look clearer, I'm hoping ati takes the next couple of rounds though, I like their prices much better.


----------



## DaMulta (Jun 30, 2008)

DanTheBanjoman said:


> You know that with all your Nehalem talk you are expected to have the most badass Nehalem system on the forums when it's out right?



Yep, I have been wondering that to.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jun 30, 2008)

Well, At work, we just got in New Dell AX2 Machines, They Certainly are quick, and we needed it considering the other machines were just too sluggish for Internet Database Management. Im pretty sure i could of streamlined the Systems but im not the admin of those machines.


----------



## imperialreign (Jun 30, 2008)

DanTheBanjoman said:


> You know that with all your Nehalem talk you are expected to have the most badass Nehalem system on the forums when it's out right?





I'm sorry, but after reading through this thread, I fell out my chair laughing at that post! 




			
				cdawall said:
			
		

> also for this just for those who don't know because of the new interconnect chip you can run 4 4870X2s together for octafire



and that right there gives this new ATI series some serious ass-kicking leverage; if we can see what 2 R700s pull, dollar for dollar, you're still far under the closest 1337 performance offering from nVidia . . . and even if nVidia did manage something to compete or outdo the 4870x2, for starters it'd probably produce more heat and noise (if not be dubbed Chernobyl and slapped with a radioactive sticker and MSDS sheet), and would probably be priced close to twice that of the 70x2 . . . think about it, how much of a performance difference would there have to be _over_ the 4870x2 to justify twice the cost as being viable to both manufacturers and consumers?  And to bring in a product like that at current $600-$700, nVidia would have to wrist-slash the price of all their other cards.

Sorry, but this GPU series round goes 100% to ATI!




			
				psefer said:
			
		

> All Of Keep Saying How Good The New Ati Cards Are But As Crossfire Is Concerned Two 4870 Crossfire Perfomance Sucks! And I Am Sure That This Is Fake And Even It's Real I Am No Way Convinced That The Performance Of 4870x2 In Crossfire Will Be Good In Games! All Dual Chip Cards Allways Suffer From Stuttering And Usual The 2nd Dual Card Causes The Stuttering. I Have Tried All Quad Sli Setups And Quad Crossfire Cards And Performance In Games Sucks!
> I Don't Believe That Ati/amd Managed To Fix Their Drivers! We Just Have To Wait And See! Fan Speed Bug On 4870 & 4850 ? Ha Ha Ha Ha!



stuttering?  What stuttering do you speak of?

Oh!  you must be talking about within Crysis, right?!  Hell, that's the only game that takes 5min of additional load time with a single card once the map is loaded up, and 5.5min with dual cards.

Seriously, though, I rarely experience any amount of stutter that detracts from a game.


----------



## WarEagleAU (Jul 1, 2008)

Well my main point is it took two gpus to top a one gpu gt2XX 

But all valid points.


----------



## Chicken Patty (Jul 1, 2008)

All i can say is that nowadays what I think matters to people the most is the performance to cost ratio, and honestly, ATi has that over nvidia now.  The nvidia cards are badass cards, and right now all the quickest cards out there.  But if you notice on multiple setups ATI has the crown, at least according to HWBot!!!


----------



## KainXS (Jul 1, 2008)

WarEagleAU said:


> Well my main point is it took two gpus to top a one gpu gt2XX
> 
> But all valid points.



still does it matter, does it matter that a core 2 duo is faster that a core 2 solo, no

all that matters is performance and price


----------



## farlex85 (Jul 1, 2008)

WarEagleAU said:


> Well my main point is it took two gpus to top a one gpu gt2XX
> 
> But all valid points.



That might be intentional too. Ati may also have been able to create a huge monolithic gpu, but they realized the costs of doing something like that are just too high. Instead they maximized space and cost to top the monolithic at a lower price. They've said this will be the last one nvidia makes like that, and I wouldn't doubt it the way things are now. It's not necessarily a matter of nvidia making a better gpu, it seems more a matter of business strategy, one that ati went the right way on.


----------



## Chicken Patty (Jul 1, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> That might be intentional too. Ati may also have been able to create a huge monolithic gpu, but they realized the costs of doing something like that are just too high. Instead they maximized space and cost to top the monolithic at a lower price. They've said this will be the last one nvidia makes like that, and I wouldn't doubt it the way things are now. It's not necessarily a matter of nvidia making a better gpu, it seems more a matter of business strategy, one that ati went the right way on.



x2


----------



## Megasty (Jul 1, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> That might be intentional too. Ati may also have been able to create a huge monolithic gpu, but they realized the costs of doing something like that are just too high. Instead they maximized space and cost to top the monolithic at a lower price. They've said this will be the last one nvidia makes like that, and I wouldn't doubt it the way things are now. It's not necessarily a matter of nvidia making a better gpu, it seems more a matter of business strategy, one that ati went the right way on.



They already learned from that mistake. For its time the 2900XT 1gb beast managed to keep up with the 8800GTX up until you included games that relied on heavy physics. The 2900's flaw was that the silly simple shaders couldn't do physics properly. The GTX had twice as many shaders as the XT. The reason why the 3870 beats that beast is because it has a faster GPU. The shader arch. of the 2 cards was basically the same. Even so, the XT was $200 cheaper than the GTX. 

If ATi could re-work the 2900 power-sucking GPU while making it less costly & more powerful then all the more power to them for that. It was a long thought out process that's finally showing fruit with the 4870 monster. The 4870 is more 3X faster than the 2900XT in physics-related games - & it still the same arch. The only thing is that the 3870x2 experiment worked so well that the 2 GPU cards will become the best PP cards ever. Why should they go back to the monster GPU debacle while NV just hit the wall with one...


----------



## flclisgreat (Jul 1, 2008)

so any idea on release dat yet? or power consumption? wondering if my 720w enermax will be enough for 2 x2's or a x2+a 4870


----------



## vojc (Jul 1, 2008)

August


----------



## cdawall (Jul 1, 2008)

flclisgreat said:


> so any idea on release dat yet? or power consumption? wondering if my 720w enermax will be enough for 2 x2's or a x2+a 4870



not even close lol a pair of 4870s pulls 500w all by itself so your looking at a peak of 750w with 3 cards running well probably close to 700w with the X2 card in


----------



## psefer (Jul 1, 2008)

For Those Of You Say About Ati 4870x2 Crossifre Here Is My Score! AND I HAVE TO SAY THAT I AM ON AIR COOLING! TRY TO BEAT THIS ATI!


----------



## erocker (Jul 1, 2008)

You are using PhysX.  With physX support for an ATi card don't you think the score would be higher?  What if there was an Ageia card installed?  Nice score though!


----------



## btarunr (Jul 1, 2008)

psefer said:


> For Those Of You Say About Ati 4870x2 Crossifre Here Is My Score! AND I HAVE TO SAY THAT I AM ON AIR COOLING! TRY TO BEAT THIS ATI!



That CPU score of "~45000" shows where you got that score from  Nice bench. 

Altough it's FUD now, odds are pointing towards the fact that this ATI bench was run on a Phenom based machine, and that's a 45nm Phenom at that.


----------



## DaMulta (Jul 1, 2008)

psefer said:


> For Those Of You Say About Ati 4870x2 Crossifre Here Is My Score! AND I HAVE TO SAY THAT I AM ON AIR COOLING! TRY TO BEAT THIS ATI!



what is your system? I can't read minds


----------



## psefer (Jul 1, 2008)

My System Is :
Quad Core Qx9650 @ 4ghz (400x10) (stock Air Cooling!)
4gb Ddr3 Super Talent 1800mhz 9-9-9-24-2t
Evga Nforce 790ultra 
4 X Hdd Raptor 150gb Raid 0
3 X Asus Gtx 280 @ Core:670 Shader:1460 Mem :2376
Creative X-fi Fatality Titanium Pcx
Power Supply Thermaltake 1500w Toughpower


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## btarunr (Jul 1, 2008)

psefer said:


> My System Is :
> Quad Core Qx9650 @ 4ghz (400x10) (stock Air Cooling!)
> 4gb Ddr3 Super Talent 1800mhz 9-9-9-24-2t
> Evga Nforce 790ultra
> ...



How did you install 3x GTX 280 and a X-Fi Titanium together assuming you run the cards "on air"


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jul 1, 2008)

Its possible on air cooling titanium in slot above top gfx card.


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## imperialreign (Jul 1, 2008)

btarunr said:


> That CPU score of "~45000" shows where you got that score from  Nice bench.
> 
> *Altough it's FUD now, odds are pointing towards the fact that this ATI bench was run on a Phenom based machine, and that's a 45nm Phenom at that*.




that would be impressive, IMO - such being the case, I'm sure the pair could score even higher on a Intel proc.


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## flclisgreat (Jul 1, 2008)

cdawall said:


> not even close lol a pair of 4870s pulls 500w all by itself so your looking at a peak of 750w with 3 cards running well probably close to 700w with the X2 card in



are you thinking gtx280 for power consumption? cause 250w per card is ridiculous


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## PrudentPrincess (Jul 1, 2008)

erocker said:


> You are using PhysX.  With physX support for an ATi card don't you think the score would be higher?  What if there was an Ageia card installed?  Nice score though!



That's why these bench results are completely useless.


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## farlex85 (Jul 2, 2008)

PrudentPrincess said:


> That's why these bench results are completely useless.



They're not useless, you just have to take certain things into account. They can still be indicative of the power of the card.


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## kid41212003 (Jul 2, 2008)

Prices are meaningless when you compare top-line products.
Product A: 10000 points.
Product B: 9900 points.

Product A: I better than you, I have the crown and my price is x3 you. I don't give a ****!
Product B: There is nothing I can say.

Just look at the top-line Intel CPU.

Top-line product is just for show.
When NVIDIA top-line card is holding the crown, it gives people a good impression to buy their lower-line products.

AMD: They can't hold the crown, but they can still sell alot products. Why? Because AMD is aiming for casual gamers, who doesn't have much money.
NVIDIA: Brute forces. No comments.


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## eidairaman1 (Jul 2, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> They're not useless, you just have to take certain things into account. They can still be indicative of the power of the card.



Id primarily use them for stability purpose of overclock within windows, as usually most crashes occur in windows.


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## cdawall (Jul 2, 2008)

flclisgreat said:


> are you thinking gtx280 for power consumption? cause 250w per card is ridiculous




sorry rereading the graphs it system totals lol


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## psefer (Jul 2, 2008)

All of you are talking about price perfomance ratio!
Amd cpu's has always been cheaper than intel! why do you buy intel chips which cost more?
you want the performance right? 
also about 4870x2:
1) a few day ago we heard that 4870x2 score 5500 at extreme! that 12200 in crosfire seams unrealistic? what than means over 100% increase with the second card? this is stupid!
also check out the reviews in 4870 crossfire (2x4870). the addition of the second card almost sucks! you expect me to beleive that 4 chips will work effieciently? you must be kidding!


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## btarunr (Jul 2, 2008)

kid41212003 said:


> Prices are meaningless when you compare top-line products.
> Product A: 10000 points.
> Product B: 9900 points.
> 
> ...



If you're saving $950, it's more than meaningful.


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## InnocentCriminal (Jul 2, 2008)

psefer said:


> All of you are talking about price perfomance ratio!
> Amd cpu's has always been cheaper than intel! why do you buy intel chips which cost more?
> you want the performance right?



That used to be true, but Intel changed that with the release of the Core 2 line.


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## kid41212003 (Jul 2, 2008)

btarunr said:


> If you're saving $950, it's more than meaningful.



Like i said, it just for show, people like me or you, probably won't buy those. Only who look for best performence and doesn't care about the prices.
And AGAIN, those top-line are for SHOWS, those products are not main-lines.

EDIT: Do you think people that's going to buy 3, yes THREE GTX 280, at 600USD each, do you think those people care about how much it costs?
Same with with two 4870X2.


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## Wile E (Jul 2, 2008)

psefer said:


> All of you are talking about price perfomance ratio!
> Amd cpu's has always been cheaper than intel! why do you buy intel chips which cost more?
> you want the performance right?
> also about 4870x2:
> ...



AMD cpus aren't cheaper for the same performance levels anymore. Intel becomes an even better deal when you overclock. in short, Intel DOES have the better price/performance ratio in most cases.


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## Chicken Patty (Jul 2, 2008)

Wile E said:


> AMD cpus aren't cheaper for the same performance levels anymore. Intel becomes an even better deal when you overclock. in short, Intel DOES have the better price/performance ratio in most cases.



x2

my buddy has a e6300 could it be?  Well his core 2 duo regardless of which one it is runs at 1.8GHz out the box.  He has it overclocked to 3.2 on air, and its quicker that m Athlon x2 at 3.4. 

Oh, and yes its cheaper than my x2!!!.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jul 2, 2008)

It is a E6300 which runs at 1.8ghz.Very good chip,i got mine to 3.9ghz.Check my sig


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## Megasty (Jul 2, 2008)

kid41212003 said:


> Like i said, it just for show, people like me or you, probably won't buy those. Only who look for best performence and doesn't care about the prices.
> And AGAIN, those top-line are for SHOWS, those products are not main-lines.
> 
> EDIT: Do you think people that's going to buy 3, yes THREE GTX 280, at 600USD each, do you think those people care about how much it costs?
> Same with with two 4870X2.



If a person would actually buy 3 GTX280's just to brag about it then they have no idea what money is  Can I afford 3 GTX280's...yeah, will I buy them...hell no. Why would people shell out this much cash on taped out parts that are just going to be replaced in 3 months. Paying nearly 2 grand for some cards just for bragging rights is childish beyond compare. If I can get similar performance out of 1 grand worth of cards then those bragging right seem even more outlandish. People with this much money tend to not waste it on foolish purchases either :shadedshu


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## Azza_1 (Jul 2, 2008)

May just have to get myself a couple of these.


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## eidairaman1 (Jul 2, 2008)

psefer said:


> All of you are talking about price perfomance ratio!
> Amd cpu's has always been cheaper than intel! why do you buy intel chips which cost more?
> you want the performance right?
> also about 4870x2:
> ...



dude if you want to be a fanboy which you apparently are, go to some other forum and spew your negativity, we here don't accept it and your demeanor here is unacceptable.


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## kid41212003 (Jul 2, 2008)

Megasty said:


> If a person would actually buy 3 GTX280's just to brag about it then they have no idea what money is  Can I afford 3 GTX280's...yeah, will I buy them...hell no. Why would people shell out this much cash on taped out parts that are just going to be replaced in 3 months. Paying nearly 2 grand for some cards just for bragging rights is childish beyond compare. If I can get similar performance out of 1 grand worth of cards then those bragging right seem even more outlandish. People with this much money tend to not waste it on foolish purchases either :shadedshu



No, no, you still asking yourself this :"Why would I buy this when I can spend less for better performence ratio". It's mean you still care about 1% inrease with the different of 200USD. :shadedshu
There is people going to spend on DDR3, that cost alot, just for 1-5% inrease in performece, or they just love latest technology.


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## Megasty (Jul 2, 2008)

kid41212003 said:


> No, no, you still asking yourself this :"Why would I buy this when I can spend less for better performence ratio". It's mean you still care about 1% inrease with the different of 200USD. :shadedshu
> There is people going to spend on DDR3, that cost alot, just for 1-5% inrease in performece, or they just love latest technology.



Video cards & memory are different. Right now the price of DDR3 is coming back to earth in light that DDR3 hardly outperforms DDR2. But when it comes to video cards, both mainstream companies are stuck in their 2 different architectures. Both work but one obviously costs more to put into practice than the other. There just migh be 0.025% of video card buffs out there that buys the best based on a company's best whether its a $600 or $1000. There are also ppl out there that don't use logic. They are called fanbois. 

This thread is about the 2 4870x2s busting vantage's ass. Not how 3 GTX280s can too. No one on this forum is in the realm stupidity that allows them to think that spending $2000 instead of $1000 on the same performance is great. Bring it back down to earth with the GTX26o & 4870. They have relatively the same performance but the 4870 is $150 less. Only a nvidiot would think a GTX260 would be a better buy.


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