# Positioning of Radiator?



## Black Panther (Jul 30, 2021)

So I have an NZXT H710i case and my radiator is positioned at the very top, right above 3 exhaust fans.

My friend bought an identical case but insists on positioning the radiator at the front, behind 3 intake fans.

I'm telling him that way he's blowing warm (even mildly hot during gaming) air on his new GPU and all inside his tower before being exhausted out of the top fans and rear fan. 
I'm telling him putting it on top is much better so that the warm radiator air gets immediately pushed outside of the tower instead.

However, he insists his positioning is better.

Below is a photo he sent me, showing how he installed the radiator.

What do you think about this?

I was planning to show him this thread (if I'm right) in order to help him.


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## GerKNG (Jul 30, 2021)

i had a H710 too. 
front mounted radiators with the already restricted airflow is a bad idea.
everything heats up and the liquid temperature from the AIO is barely 2°C cooler.
top mounted is a lot better.


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## ThrashZone (Jul 30, 2021)

Hi,
I'd usually use the easiest to clean position which is the front
Air goes through the front and out the back so not sure why it would matter that hot air passes through make it easier by removing the extra pci-e covers 

But then again I have rads on top and front and both are intakes lol
Bottom line
Cases come with filters on the front and top so already designed for Intake so why change it or remove a filter so you can switch it to exhaust these are options though so do it the way you want too only o.c.d. people would really bark at one way or another as best


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## DeathtoGnomes (Jul 30, 2021)

I have to agree the top mount is better. Easiest is clean should never be a factor on where to position. as @GerKNG said the front has limited airflow, but its still a good idea to throw a fan or two in the front to maintain a better over all airflow.


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## Black Panther (Jul 30, 2021)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> I have to agree the top mount is better. Easiest is clean should never be a factor on where to position. as @GerKNG said the front has limited airflow, but its still a good idea to throw a fan or two in the front to maintain a better over all airflow.



The case already has 3 intake fans at the front... you can't fit more fans 

(Then it has 3 exhaust fans at the top and another exhaust fan at the back.)


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## DeathtoGnomes (Jul 30, 2021)

Black Panther said:


> The case already has 3 intake fans at the front... you can't fit more fans
> 
> (Then it has 3 exhaust fans at the top and another exhaust fan at the back.)


I assumed there were none on the front.


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## ThrashZone (Jul 30, 2021)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> I assumed there were none on the front.


Image showed otherwise.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Jul 30, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Image showed otherwise.


I didnt expand the image, oh well.


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## oxrufiioxo (Jul 30, 2021)

Top mounted is usually ideal but he can try both and see how much of a difference it makes..... I've had multiple cases where it didn't make much of a difference 1-2C and others where it was closer to 5C.

What hardware is your friend using? Going by the photo seems to be Ryzen based so likely won't make any difference.


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## jesdals (Jul 30, 2021)

I would leave it as is - dont think there will be much difference


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## Black Panther (Jul 30, 2021)

jesdals said:


> I would leave it as is - dont think there will be much difference





oxrufiioxo said:


> Top mounted is usually ideal but he can try both and see how much of a difference it makes..... I've had multiple cases where it didn't make much of a difference 1-2C and others where it was closer to 5C.
> 
> What hardware is your friend using? Going by the photo seems to be Ryzen based so likely won't make any difference.



Yes Ryzen.  I don't think there will be much difference in _CPU_ temperatures either. *But* the 3 intake fans would be blowing warm radiator air straight onto his brand new 3080Ti instead of straight out of the case.


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## Udyr (Jul 30, 2021)

Top is OK
Front needs to have the pipes at the bottom (if the pipes are long enough)
Back is for 120/140 MM only and pipes should be below the pump
Bottom is a no-no


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## ThrashZone (Jul 30, 2021)

Hi,
I'd add on most cases the top has more obstructions than the front does 

Top usually has a bunch of holes punched in it so it's not completely open and air has to go through them all and a lot of air hit solid spaces between the holes
Front usually doesn't have a lot of stuff

Of course I also cut large square holes where the rads are on top of my cases so no more of that little hole stuff going on, it's just straight through for optimum air flow through the rads.

Looking at your case top and front have these narrow slots for air to go through so not good at all for exhaust barely worth beans for acquit intake 
*So I would make both Intake no matter where the rad is.*


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## oxrufiioxo (Jul 30, 2021)

Black Panther said:


> Yes Ryzen.  I don't think there will be much difference in _CPU_ temperatures either. *But* the 3 intake fans would be blowing warm radiator air straight onto his brand new 3080Ti instead of straight out of the case.



As long as he didn't get a terrible model cooling wise it won't matter even a 5950X uses very little power while gaming... The case  is likely to be the bottleneck either way trying to push 400w of heat out of it is going to be a bad day unless he cranks the fans. He will likely move air out of the case much faster not trying to push the majority of the hot air through the radiator.


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## jesdals (Jul 30, 2021)

Black Panther said:


> Yes Ryzen.  I don't think there will be much difference in _CPU_ temperatures either. *But* the 3 intake fans would be blowing warm radiator air straight onto his brand new 3080Ti instead of straight out of the case.


I did try it the other way around, but with a hot Radeon 7 at the time it was better to let the radiator heat in than blowing the hot GPU air trough the radiator - but much the same - if your missing air to gpu ad an extra push fan on the bottom of your rad - I use two bottom / top to ad air flow to GPU and over memory. Btw if your friend watch a lot of Jays Two Cents yhats why hees doing the front intake


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## Black Panther (Jul 30, 2021)

oxrufiioxo said:


> As long as he didn't get a terrible model cooling wise it won't matter even a 5950X uses very little power while gaming... The case  is likely to be the bottleneck either way trying to push 400w of heat out of it is going to be a bad day unless he cranks the fans. He will likely move air out of the case much faster not trying to push the majority of the hot air through the radiator.



Interesting. Mine is mounted like this but I have an i9 instead of a high-end Ryzen and a 2080Ti 11GB instead of a 3080Ti. (Apologies for the reflections but you can still see the pipes... radiator is not visible because it's on top right above the 3 exhaust fans there.


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## claes (Jul 30, 2021)

Top is probably best for this case given how anemic/restricted it is, but give your friend some credit — that 3080 ti is going to feed hot air to the radiator.

Probably doesn’t matter with Ryzen... It really is a case-by-case situation (harr, harr). There is no universally ideal radiator mounting scheme.

If anything, I’d recommend your friend remove their PCIe brackets — that’ll probably help the GPU more than whatever happens with the radiator.


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## Black Panther (Jul 30, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> *So I would make both Intake no matter where the rad is.*



Personally I think having 6 fans intake and only 1 rear fan exhaust wouldn't be.... balanced?


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## ThrashZone (Jul 30, 2021)

Black Panther said:


> Personally I think having 6 fans intake and only 1 rear fan exhaust wouldn't be.... balanced?


Hi,
Back of all cases are open.
I said it before and someone else did too 
Remove pci-e covers.


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## Outback Bronze (Jul 30, 2021)

I have always found (15+ years) that my loops have been cooler with cold air intake whether they are top or front mounted. You should never be using hot air from inside the case

Think of it like cars. They always have their radiator in the front of the car getting cold air intake no?


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## toilet pepper (Jul 30, 2021)

I prefer the top mounted rad. Air coming out of a radiator can get very hot and you don't want to add that to your other components. I have not owned a processor that is on an AIO that gets too hot to a point that it will thermal throttle or loose perfomance.

A GPU on the other hand would loose clocks if it gets too hot. You might loose some FPS/clockspeed if the GPU gets too hot. So you want to feed it fresh air.

I'm not saying it will happen but at this point I'd rather let my CPU burn down than my GPU.


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## Udyr (Jul 30, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Back of all cases are open.
> I said it before and someone else did too
> Remove pci-e covers.


Depends on where you live.

Dusty environments and crawling roomates would beg to differ.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Jul 30, 2021)

TBH, that case is a horrible design for airflow. Airflow works best when you can balance case pressure, 6 intake fans would actually be bad, give the case too much internal pressure and hurt temps rather than help.


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## claes (Jul 30, 2021)

I dunno, I think it’s worth trying out. Like you said, it’s poorly designed for airflow — I wouldn’t be that surprised if a single exhaust could keep up


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## DeathtoGnomes (Jul 30, 2021)

claes said:


> I dunno, I think it’s worth trying out.


sure it is, thats what we aim for, if it seems ok,  "just go with it"


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 30, 2021)

Black Panther said:


> Yes Ryzen.  I don't think there will be much difference in _CPU_ temperatures either. *But* the 3 intake fans would be blowing warm radiator air straight onto his brand new 3080Ti instead of straight out of the case.


I would go roof too, with a radiator obscuring the front fans your getting less air into the case plus it's heated, plus with four out fans the neg pressure your biased to have will pull muck in.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 30, 2021)

Udyr said:


> Top is OK
> Front needs to have the pipes at the bottom (if the pipes are long enough)
> Back is for 120/140 MM only and pipes should be below the pump
> Bottom is a no-no


god i hate that video, tubes can in fact be at the top. However, they need to be above the pump. Steve isn't wrong but its way over blown. If the pump is above the radiator yeah thats super bad. However if the tubes are above the radiator then air rather than collecting in the pump will collect in the reservoir of the radiator which can create some extra noise. However, in a new AIO its not noticeable, That said I have some AIOs here that are 3 4 or even 5 years old and in all of them only one exhibits increased noise in that position and you probably guessed but its the 5 year old unit. This is due to evaporation over time. Not all AIOs are created equal so this issue can crop up at different time frames in the coolers life cycle. Still way over blown.

But I digress. top mount is the best mount.

As for performance front or top mount it won't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things. The cooler has more space from which to draw air when at the top and it will result in lower temps. But overall I wouldn't expect temps to vary more than 3-4'C. If the CPU is nowhere near thermal throttle points it basically becomes moot. The other aspect is you worry about heated air from the radiator but with the AIO as an exhaust its also exhausting the heat from the GPU if its not a blower style cooler. That "issue" goes both ways. Guess which one puts out far more heat?

So your GPU gets air in the 30-40C range or the CPU can get heated air in the 50-70C range. Eitherway one component or the other is gonna be warmer.

So again grand scheme doesn't matter all that much if temperatures are within normal operating parameters it becomes more an issue of which setup creates less noise.

What I will say is I much prefer the fans pulling air THROUGH the radiator vs pushing air through. the radiator collects the dust rather than the fans, and its easier to get the dust off the radiator than fans.

so TLDR, 

Top mount with fans set to pull air through = best for CPU temps and dust control, but front mount is fine if tubing is above the pump.


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## erocker (Jul 31, 2021)

Up top as exhaust is the best way.


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## Caring1 (Jul 31, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> Think of it like cars. They always have their radiator in the front of the car getting cold air intake no?


Bad analogy as open the hood after a drive and the heat will almost knock you over with most cars.
If only cars could have their radiator as exhaust, coupled with a cold air intake.


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## Outback Bronze (Jul 31, 2021)

Caring1 said:


> Bad analogy



Not quite sure how to say cars cool combustion the best possible way then. Sry.


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## Mussels (Jul 31, 2021)

Blowing warm air inside the PC is not the end of the world, but if you can avoid it you absolutely want to

that case has such a bad airflow design


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## Black Panther (Jul 31, 2021)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> TBH, that case is a horrible design for airflow. Airflow works best when you can balance case pressure, 6 intake fans would actually be bad, give the case too much internal pressure and hurt temps rather than help.


It doesn't have 6 intake fans... front 3 are input, top 3 are exhaust.


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## ThrashZone (Jul 31, 2021)

Black Panther said:


> It doesn't have 6 intake fans... front 3 are input, top 3 are exhaust.


Hi,
Reality the way your case is designed "more for looks than air flow" think you and your buddy can compare max and minimum temperatures and figure out which is best.


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## AusWolf (Jul 31, 2021)

Udyr said:


> Front needs to have the pipes at the bottom (if the pipes are long enough)


No. Any positioning is OK as long as the pump is not the highest point of the loop. With the front positioning and pipes at the top (as shown in @Black Panther 's pic), air bubbles get stuck at the intake side of the radiator, which is fine - the pump doesn't have anywhere near enough power to suck them through the rad, and back through the rad's exhaust pipe.

Not to mention, I'm not aware of any chassis and/or AIO with long enough pipes that allows a front mount with pipes at the bottom.



Black Panther said:


> So I have an NZXT H710i case and my radiator is positioned at the very top, right above 3 exhaust fans.
> 
> My friend bought an identical case but insists on positioning the radiator at the front, behind 3 intake fans.
> 
> ...


As I mentioned, a front mount is OK, as long as the highest point of the radiator is above the height of the pump. You're right in that hot air exhausted by the rad will blow at the GPU, but it's not the end of the world. It will probably result in a couple degrees cooler CPU, and couple degrees warmer GPU, which is nothing to be afraid of - unless his graphics card is at its thermal limits already with a factory AMD blower-style cooler, or anything similar.

A little illustration:


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## ThrashZone (Jul 31, 2021)

Black Panther said:


> Spoiler: more
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi,
This is the funniest part lol


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## Black Panther (Jul 31, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> This is the funniest part lol


Lol I did in fact link him to it, telling him that there were different opinions... and that the main one everybody agreed upon is that our case choice sucks! 

Knowing him, if he really did read this... he'd feel like the yellow guy here ---> considering he just purchased it, unlike me who purchased it nearly a year and a half ago..


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## DeathtoGnomes (Jul 31, 2021)

Black Panther said:


> It doesn't have 6 intake fans... front 3 are input, top 3 are exhaust.


someone suggested trying 6 intake...


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## Udyr (Jul 31, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> No. Any positioning is OK as long as the pump is not the highest point of the loop. With the front positioning and pipes at the top (as shown in @Black Panther 's pic), air bubbles get stuck at the intake side of the radiator, which is fine - the pump doesn't have anywhere near enough power to suck them through the rad, and back through the rad's exhaust pipe.


I provided a simple reply to the OP with a video for reference, not an AIO bible itself. @crazyeyesreaper already provided all these details.



> Not to mention, I'm not aware of any chassis and/or AIO with long enough pipes that allows a front mount with pipes at the bottom.


You haven't seen many AIOs, I presume.


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## Black Panther (Jul 31, 2021)

Udyr said:


> I provided a simple reply to the OP with a video for reference, not an AIO bible itself. @crazyeyesreaper already provided all these details.
> 
> 
> You haven't seen many AIOs, I presume.


Just asking, because I'm not familiar with AIO's myself (the one I bought a year+ ago was my first one).
So the above pictures, they're OK since the top of  the radiator is higher than the pump, and any bubbles will form up there and not in the pump, right? Even though the pipes are connected at the bottom of the radiator?


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## damric (Jul 31, 2021)

For AIOs I prefer top mount, but a lot of cases, while they claim they can fit up top, they just can't so I mount them in front very often. I hate those NZXT cases in general.

My own personal radiators are mounted radically different. 1st pic is 2x 240s on the bottom shelf blowing out of an aluminum frame style case I built. 2nd pic is a 1080 rad sitting on a frame that sits on top of my haf xb. You can see the blue air filter.


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## AusWolf (Jul 31, 2021)

Udyr said:


> I provided a simple reply to the OP with a video for reference, not an AIO bible itself. @crazyeyesreaper already provided all these details.
> 
> 
> You haven't seen many AIOs, I presume.


Sorry, I'll specify: I haven't really seen a *360 mm* AIO that can fit that way. I assumed the OP was about a 360 mm. If not, I apologise.


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## Mussels (Aug 1, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> No. Any positioning is OK as long as the pump is not the highest point of the loop. With the front positioning and pipes at the top (as shown in @Black Panther 's pic), air bubbles get stuck at the intake side of the radiator, which is fine - the pump doesn't have anywhere near enough power to suck them through the rad, and back through the rad's exhaust pipe.
> 
> Not to mention, I'm not aware of any chassis and/or AIO with long enough pipes that allows a front mount with pipes at the bottom.
> 
> ...


the reasoning for the "ok" advice being an issue is that a lot of the time peoples get air stuck in the pump, and the way the hose is floating (usually around the system RAM) it cant work its way out without serious shaking and tilting... and the pumps can die if they dont
i've had to fix quite a few systems where thats happened (by replacing the noisy, grinding AIO)

if nothing else, always advise people using the "ok" method to tilt the system back as far as possible and listen for noise changes


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## Udyr (Aug 1, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> Sorry, I'll specify: I haven't really seen a *360 mm* AIO that can fit that way. I assumed the OP was about a 360 mm. If not, I apologise.


Yes, OP's AIO is a 360mm version, but there are some 360s that you may fit pipes down. No need for apologies: we're sharing info and learning in the process.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Aug 1, 2021)

damric said:


> while they claim they can fit up top, they just can't so I mount them in front very often


sometimes you have to take the case further apart. I wanted a push-pull so I had to stuff my 420 thru the drive bay openings, took a  while to figure it out.


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## AusWolf (Aug 1, 2021)

Mussels said:


> the reasoning for the "ok" advice being an issue is that a lot of the time peoples get air stuck in the pump, and the way the hose is floating (usually around the system RAM) it cant work its way out without serious shaking and tilting... and the pumps can die if they dont
> i've had to fix quite a few systems where thats happened (by replacing the noisy, grinding AIO)
> 
> if nothing else, always advise people using the "ok" method to tilt the system back as far as possible and listen for noise changes


That is absolutely true. I always recommend a little shaking and tilting after assembling and/or moving a water-cooled PC just to be extra safe, regardless of radiator position.


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## ThrashZone (Aug 1, 2021)

Hi,
There shouldn't be enough air in an aio to matter and if there is it's a defect with hopefully 5 year warranty so if it dies rma for a new one.


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## Mussels (Aug 1, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> There shouldn't be enough air in an aio to matter and if there is it's a defect with hopefully 5 year warranty so if it dies rma for a new one.


4 of the last 5 AIO's i've had, have had enough air that they needed special treatment to not sound like they were grinding up bones

RMA's on 3 were accepted, on RMA 4 they refused stating 'AIO's are high performance, not silent' -.- (in the end i got it refunded, yay for australian consumer laws and never shopping there again)


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## ThrashZone (Aug 1, 2021)

Mussels said:


> 4 of the last 5 AIO's i've had, have had enough air that they needed special treatment to not sound like they were grinding up bones
> 
> RMA's on 3 were accepted, on RMA 4 they refused stating 'AIO's are high performance, not silent' -.- (in the end i got it refunded, yay for australian consumer laws and never shopping there again)


Hi,
Last I owned was a corsair gt110 I believe it wasn't loud or anything but died after 36 months 
So did three other friends gt110's died month or two apart 

We all had them mounted differently 
Mine was on front with tubes on top
Theirs were all on top
All died so lol defects happen.

I sold my rma new replacement on ebay


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## AusWolf (Aug 1, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> There shouldn't be enough air in an aio to matter and if there is it's a defect with hopefully 5 year warranty so if it dies rma for a new one.


There's always _some_ air in every AIO, which increases with time due to permeation. Why risk unnecessary damage when doing a proper mount costs nothing both in time and money?


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## DeathtoGnomes (Aug 1, 2021)

Mussels said:


> 4 of the last 5 AIO's i've had, have had enough air that they needed special treatment to not sound like they were grinding up bones
> 
> RMA's on 3 were accepted, on RMA 4 they refused stating 'AIO's are high performance, not silent' -.- (in the end i got it refunded, yay for australian consumer laws and never shopping there again)


My experience has been opposite, every cooler I installed had 0 issues.


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## ThrashZone (Aug 2, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> There's always _some_ air in every AIO, which increases with time due to permeation. Why risk unnecessary damage when doing a proper mount costs nothing both in time and money?


Hi,
As I said before 5 year warranty so it doesn't matter and forces manufactures to make better products if they die within warranty.
Users wins a new replacement they can use again or sell as new unopened rma replacement as I opted to do.


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## AusWolf (Aug 2, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> As I said before 5 year warranty so it doesn't matter and forces manufactures to make better products if they die within warranty.
> Users wins a new replacement they can use again or sell as new unopened rma replacement as I opted to do.


Like I said, there is some air in every AIO due to permeation. Replacing stuff within warranty won't make manufacturers change the laws of physics.

Also, just because a product has warranty on it doesn't mean that I deliberately want to go through the annoyances of the rma process for no reason. I'd much rather keep my things as long as possible and not worry about replacements, especially if doing so costs me no extra time and money. Maybe that's just me.


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## ThrashZone (Aug 2, 2021)

Hi,
Failure is failure 
Software or really crapware is why I don't use aio's anymore.


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## AusWolf (Aug 2, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Failure is failure


That's right, but why risk it when a simple preventive measure costs you absolutely nothing?



ThrashZone said:


> Software or really crapware is why I don't use aio's anymore.


No one said you should.  (though just FYI, it is possible to use most AIOs without software)


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## Mussels (Aug 2, 2021)

also, if you're ballsy you can pop open an asetek AIO at the pump/block with a single screw per hose, top them up with distilled water and seal them up again...


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## eidairaman1 (Aug 3, 2021)

Black Panther said:


> So I have an NZXT H710i case and my radiator is positioned at the very top, right above 3 exhaust fans.
> 
> My friend bought an identical case but insists on positioning the radiator at the front, behind 3 intake fans.
> 
> ...



You do it your way, let your friend learn the hard way



TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> I would go roof too, with a radiator obscuring the front fans your getting less air into the case plus it's heated, plus with four out fans the neg pressure your biased to have will pull muck in.



You would need High Static Pressure fans for the obstruction...


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