# MSI GF65 Throttle and Thermal



## Pizzadeliver (Dec 5, 2020)

Thanks for accepting me, hello everyone. I got an MSI GF65 Thin laptop (i7-9750h + RTX 2060, 16gb RAM DDR4, 500m2 and 144hz screen, paid 1199 €). I state that I have not considered a desktop build because I am always away from home for work and I need maximum portability. By Tuesday I have to decide whether to keep it or not. What mainly worries me are the temperatures, the games I've tried so far (Doom Eternal and The Witcher 3 with hd texture pack) run smoothly. The problem exists in the fact that in the area above the keyboard the laptop gets pretty warm and according to HWINFO without undervolt I was traveling up to 98 ° under benchmark stress or in the most demanding sessions. I read that undervolt is practically mandatory in laptops with desktop CPUs, so I equipped myself with Throttlestop and played with the values, until I found a balance between not significantly castrating performance and lowering temperatures. At the moment Doom Etermal revolves around 80 ° and down (an average of 76/77 °) and from 120fps to 140fps (I put the graphics the maximum that the VRAM allowed). Considering that I would like to use it at least 5 years (you can increase the ram and I can add an m2 ssd) do you say that I have to worry about the temperatures and the relative wear of the components? Because I read that in the same price range also HP Omen and Asus ROG have more or less all the same problems as Thermal, because the internal space is obviously small. MSI service told me that the components are designed to withstand these temperatures and defend themselves in case of Thermal, they also told me I can change the thermal paste for a more performing one at my expense without voiding the warranty, but a technician told me that it is not worth it because the temperatures would improve very little. Sorry for the papyrus but for me 1119 € is not a little, and I would like to know your opinion if I should keep it or not.

PS: I already use Klim Cyclone cooling stand.


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## AOne (Dec 5, 2020)

Make a Cinebench R23 test and TSBench test and see if there is any throttling in Limit Reason Box in Throttlestop. If there isn't any and this box remains black, and the temps are still the same as in the screenshot (under 90-95 C), you're perfectly fine.


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 5, 2020)

AOne said:


> Make a Cinebench R23 test and TSBench test and see if there is any throttling in Limit Reason Box in Throttlestop. If there isn't any and this box remains black, and the temps are still the same as in the screenshot (under 90-95 C), you're perfectly fine.


The temps in the screen are with a config that give some Power error, I had to lower a bit.


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## AOne (Dec 5, 2020)

Pizzadeliver said:


> The temps in the screen are with a config that give some Power error, I had to lower a bit.


I suppose you mean Power Limit, not error. This is when the CPU reaches the limits you've set to it through Throttlestop's TPL window - in your case 60W for PL2 and 45 for PL1. I'm with the same CPU and I've set mine to 90/70. Check these values and see what happens.


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 5, 2020)

AOne said:


> I suppose you mean Power Limit, not error. This is when the CPU reaches the limits you've set to it through Throttlestop's TPL window - in your case 60W for PL2 and 45 for PL1. I'm with the same CPU and I've set mine to 90/70. Check these values and see what happens.


°
With your turbo limits and speed shift to 0 I get thermal throttling at 95°


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## AOne (Dec 5, 2020)

Hmmm. The good thing is, the laptop is unlocked to undervolting and the price is pretty good. The bad thing is it's thermal throttling. For me it's 50/50. If you think, the heatsink is well designed and is capable of dissipating heat - keep it and repaste it. If that's not the case, maybe make another choice. Search the web for this exact model and see how the others are doing.


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 5, 2020)

well, Actually it went on thermal even with my config


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## AOne (Dec 5, 2020)

Judging by the results in TSBench (which are almost identical to mine), the throttling is starting in the end of the test. Why don't you try a Cinebench test too? It's a free software and the test takes about 2-3 minutes, but the results could be compared with other and they might tell us a little bit more. Maybe repasting could do the job, but you should check if it voids the warranty (if you even care about it).


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 5, 2020)

Some reviews:
"Temperatures soared to 97 degrees max for the CPU and 81 degrees max for the GPU, but thankfully severe throttling was avoided with some judicious fan RPM—this is far from the quietest laptop going."
"
Temperatures: most of the time, the processor runs in the 80-85C range, but in demanding scenes, which require more tasks from the processor, it can jump 90C. The graphics card is in the 70-80C range, but in some places it reaches 85C.

In Blender, for example, we have the following temperatures: 86C processor, 80C for the graphics card, 54W processor consumption (!!), and 80W for the graphics card.

View fullsize
MSI-GF65-THIN-Cooling.jpg
The MSI GF65 Thin has an upgraded cooling - a complex heat pipe system: 6 heat pipes, 2 for the processor, 3 for the graphics card, and one for VRMs. All separate, just as we like to see. "



AOne said:


> Judging by the results in TSBench (which are almost identical to mine), the throttling is starting in the end of the test. Why don't you try a Cinebench test too? It's a free software and the test takes about 2-3 minutes, but the results could be compared with other and they might tell us a little bit more. Maybe repasting could do the job, but you should check if it voids the warranty (if you even care about it).


It doesn't void the warranty, I can even add an SSD they told me. Just communicate to MSI the serial number and the work you are going to do. But my techincian told me repasting is almost uselss, I would get max 2-3° under.

Trying Cinebench r23 right now


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## AOne (Dec 5, 2020)

Well, mine is like a plane taking off, when performing high demanding tasks (then I set it's fans to max performance), otherwise, it would thermal throttle too. That's normal. So, the second guy says he avoids thermals with maxed up fans, which is a good news.


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 5, 2020)

AOne said:


> Well, mine is like a plane taking off, when performing high demanding tasks (then I set it's fans to max performance), otherwise, it would thermal throttle too. That's normal. So, the second guy says he avoids thermals with maxed up fans, which is a good news.


Well I have cooler boost Active still I get thermal 
Doing One cinebench with my config and One with your turbo values... Should I leave EEP to 32?


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## AOne (Dec 5, 2020)

Tell you're technician he knows nothing bout this specific issue. My laptop had thermals straight from new, but I was not aware for apps like TS. A week later I've sent it to RMA as a sensor on the mobo failed. It came back reassembled with new paste and same thermals a week after delivery. Finally, I bought a proper paste with max working temp of 200 C (not like the old ones with 100 C max) and the temps went down 10 degrees combined with TS which was good enough to avoid thermals and never exceed 90 C.



Pizzadeliver said:


> Well I have cooler boost Active still I get thermal
> Doing One cinebench with my config and One with your turbo values... Should I leave EEP to 32?


I leave my EPP set to 0 all the time.














CB screenshot captured right after second run and yesterday I've made a new test, after windows update (to confirm something was not screwed up) with better points.


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 5, 2020)

AOne said:


> Tell you're technician he knows nothing bout this specific issue. My laptop had thermals straight from new, but I was not aware for apps like TS. A week later I've sent it to RMA as a sensor on the mobo failed. It came back reassembled with new paste and same thermals a week after delivery. Finally, I bought a proper paste with max working temp of 200 C (not like the old ones with 100 C max) and the temps went down 10 degrees combined with TS which was good enough to avoid thermals and never exceed 90 C.
> 
> 
> I leave my EPP set to 0 all the time.
> ...


Here's chinebench during and after with my TS setup, starting with your config right now


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## AOne (Dec 5, 2020)

The red boxes means the CPU does exactly what you've told it do do - power throttle when reaching the set values. It's limiting it's performance, but is avoiding thermals. I would not be happy with that if it was my laptop.


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 5, 2020)

AOne said:


> The red boxes means the CPU does exactly what you've told it do do - power throttle when reaching the set values. It's limiting it's performance, but is avoiding thermals. I would not be happy with that if it was my laptop.


And those are screen during and after cinebench with your config. 2 cores hit thermal... I see scores are also a lot lower than yours. I see also a difference of almost 10° between cores... Could it mean bad pasting?
So conclusions? Should I keep it or return it? My fear is that I have to wait another black friday for a decent priced laptop


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## AOne (Dec 5, 2020)

I believe it's bad paste or its application. Why don't you just try repaste it and if it's still the same, turn it back?


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 5, 2020)

AOne said:


> I believe it's pad paste or its application. Why don't you just try repaste it and if it's still the same, turn it back?


No time sadly, I've got two days and not know how to do It.


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## AOne (Dec 5, 2020)

Than keep it and watch some videos to gain some courage in repasting. It's a really easy job, so don't be afraid of it.


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 5, 2020)

Now these are temps with my config on Witcher 3... Why this randomness? Yesterday they were under 80...


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## AOne (Dec 5, 2020)

For how long do you have the laptop? It was the same with mine, after I repasted it the first few times with Arctic S, MX4 and some other paste left on the shelves at home. It was best with Arctic S - lasted for a whole 2 weeks with no change and after that degraded quickly for a few days. This is what happens with old generation pastes, which have max work temp of 100 C. I'm pretty sure MSI used such paste in your laptop too and this is where the problem comes from.


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 5, 2020)

AOne said:


> For how long do you have the laptop? It was the same with mine, after I repasted it the first few times with Arctic S, MX4 and some other paste left on the shelves at home. It was best with Arctic S - lasted for a whole 2 weeks with no change and after that degraded quickly for a few days. This is what happens with old generation pastes, which have max work temp of 100 C. I'm pretty sure MSI used such paste in your laptop too and this is where the problem comes from.


I bought It 10 days ago


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## AOne (Dec 5, 2020)

Exactly  How was it the first days? I guess at least 5 degrees cooler.


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 5, 2020)

AOne said:


> Exactly  How was it the first days? I guess at least 5 degrees cooler.


Yes, with less undervolting



AOne said:


> Exactly  How was it the first days? I guess at least 5 degrees cooler.


Btw seriously, I don't get what Is happening, right now the Witcher Is working around 65°.... Maybe when i play with Throttlestop and benches Is Better to restart?


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## AOne (Dec 6, 2020)

If you're just starting the laptop, everything inside is cool. After 2-3 tests all the components get heated up and radiate heat, which is added to that coming from the chips.


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 6, 2020)

AOne said:


> If you're just starting the laptop, everything inside is cool. After 2-3 tests all the components get heated up and radiate heat, which is added to that coming from the chips.


Still uncertain if to keep It or not. Maybe Is Better to look for something with Ryzen series 4000? I fear this laptop May get worse in summer




And now it went thermal again while having witcher 3 reduced to icon and browsing net


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## AOne (Dec 6, 2020)

There's no guarantee it won't happen to any other you chose, as all these CPUs run very hot, but most of them would have locked FIVR settings in regard to Plundervolt fix. It's up to you  For this price I would keep it.


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 6, 2020)

Btw I think I'll just give it back and wait something good priced with  ryzen 4000 series


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## nguyen (Dec 6, 2020)

Pizzadeliver said:


> Btw I think I'll just give it back and wait something good priced with  ryzen 4000 series



Yeah except that Ryzen 4000 runs just as hot, or hotter.

CPU temp that peak into the 90C is totally alright, no need to fret, they are designed to run like that. You can lower the CPU temp by 10C by repasting with high quality TIM. 

If the fan noise and warm keyboard area bother you, I suggest undervolting the GPU with Afterburner. Undervolting the GPU can lower CPU temperature too as both the CPU and GPU share the same heatsinks


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 6, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Yeah except that Ryzen 4000 runs just as hot, or hotter.
> 
> CPU temp that peak into the 90C is totally alright, no need to fret, they are designed to run like that. You can lower the CPU temp by 10C by repasting with high quality TIM.
> 
> If the fan noise and warm keyboard area bother you, I suggest undervolting the GPU with Afterburner. Undervolting the GPU can lower CPU temperature too as both the CPU and GPU share the same heatsinks


A lot of people told me Ryzen 4000 series with 7nm heats a lot less... The problem Is that I hot thermal throttling even with heavy undervolt with this laptop (and Thermal throttling mean hitting 95°... I don't want to undervolt even the GPU, even because It's not Easy to work with the curve in afterburner.


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## nguyen (Dec 6, 2020)

Pizzadeliver said:


> A lot of people told me Ryzen 4000 series with 7nm heats a lot less... The problem Is that I hot thermal throttling even with heavy undervolt with this laptop (and Thermal throttling mean hitting 95°... I don't want to undervolt even the GPU, even because It's not Easy to work with the curve in afterburner.



Yeah there is a quick way to undervolt with the curve 

First dial in an overclock like +120mhz on Core and +300mhz on Memory, go to the curve
Hold Shift + left click and drag from 650mV to the end
Hold Shift + left click on the 650mV point on the curve
Hold Shift + Enter twice
Every point after the highlighted point will become a straight line. Apply and save your profile.
Undervolt the GPU to 650mV will make your laptop much cooler + lower fan noise.


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 6, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Yeah there is a quick way to undervolt with the curve
> 
> First dial in an overclock like +120mhz on Core and +300mhz on Memory, go to the curve
> Hold Shift + left click and drag from 650mV to the end
> ...


I do not have 650 on the curve, It starts from 700


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## nguyen (Dec 6, 2020)

Pizzadeliver said:


> I do not have 650 on the curve, It starts from 700



Oh then start with 700mV then, I modified the curve to start with 650mV in the MSIAfterBurner.cfg


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 6, 2020)

Dunno man, are you sure the line should be all straight?


nguyen said:


> Oh then start with 700mV then, I modified the curve to start with 650mV in the MSIAfterBurner.cfg


Do you have an RTX 2060? If so can you share your cfg?


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## nguyen (Dec 6, 2020)

Pizzadeliver said:


> Dunno man, are you sure the line should be all straight?
> 
> Do you have an RTX 2060? If so can you share your cfg?



Go to your MSIAfterburner installation folder, looks for MSIAfterburner.cfg, open with notepad
Look for "VFCurveEditorMinVoltage", edit the entry to 650 or 600
Save to a different location, then close Afterburner, delete the orginial .cfg and copy the modified .cfg back

Yeah the method I told you will make the line go straight





Just don't close the Curve before apply and save your overclocking profile in Afterburner.

Edit: my .cfg would probably screw with your configuration so just edit your .cfg, safer that way


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 6, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Go to your MSIAfterburner installation folder, looks for MSIAfterburner.cfg, open with notepad
> Look for "VFCurveEditorMinVoltage", edit the entry to 650 or 600
> Save to a different location, then close Afterburner, delete the orginial .cfg and copy the modified .cfg back
> 
> ...


I've got another difference, my 650 point is not at 1300Mhz like yours, it's at 1100


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## nguyen (Dec 6, 2020)

Pizzadeliver said:


> I've got another difference, my 650 point is not at 1300Mhz like yours, it's at 1100



You have to dial the core overclock first at the main screen, +120mhz core clock and +300mhz on memory.
If you had already done that then your GPU have different freq/voltage than mine, since I have the 2070 Super Max-Q.

If you want more performance, reset everything and set the undervolt to 700mV or 750mV and save them to seperate profile, you can activate those profiles in game to check the performance.

Set the hotkey to activate overclocking profile in Afterburner to activate them ingame


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 6, 2020)

nguyen said:


> You have to dial the core overclock first at the main screen, +120mhz core clock and +300mhz on memory.
> If you had already done that then your GPU have different freq/voltage than mine, since I have the 2070 Super Max-Q.
> Anyways an undervolt to 650mV will always lower your GPU power consumption, make you laptop operate much cooler.


Just a question, I'm running Unigine bench 1920x1080, AA8x, everything Active, my GPU Is running at 64° max without undervolt... Are we really sure the GPU Is impacting the CPU and not the reverse? Laptop Is Cool right now on the keyboard


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## nguyen (Dec 6, 2020)

Pizzadeliver said:


> Just a question, I'm running Unigine bench 1920x1080, AA8x, everything Active, my GPU Is running at 63° max without undervolt... Are we really sure the GPU Is impacting the CPU and not the reverse?



Unigine is a very light load program, try Superposition and you will see your GPU getting hotter.
My 2070 Super Max-Q is also very cool under load, max 74C before undervolting, however it is dumping 80W of heat into the cooling solution which combine with 45W from the CPU is probably a little too much for the fans, undervolting the GPU lower the consumption to 60-70W allow the fans to operate at lower speed and the keyboard area are much cooler.


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 6, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Unigine is a very light load program, try Superposition and you will see your GPU getting hotter.
> My 2070 Super Max-Q is also very cool under load, max 74C before undervolting, however it is dumping 80W of heat into the cooling solution which combine with 45W from the CPU is probably a little too much for the fans, undervolting the GPU lower the consumption to 60-70W allow the fans to operate at lower speed and the keyboard area are much cooler.


I lost quite a bit of performance with your settings


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## nguyen (Dec 6, 2020)

Pizzadeliver said:


> I lost quite a bit of performance with your settings



Maybe set the undervolt to 700mV ?
Also try actual games, Unigine is quite useless reallly.

BTW your minimum framerate barely changes, 30.9 --> 30.8 so gaming experience will not be so different, but you will notice very big different to fan noise


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 6, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Maybe set the undervolt to 700mV ?
> Also try actual games, Unigine is quite useless reallly.
> 
> BTW your minimum framerate barely changes, 30.9 --> 30.8 so gaming experience will not be so different, but you will notice very big different to fan noise


I was looking at the big FPS value on the score... This is 700mv


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## nguyen (Dec 6, 2020)

Pizzadeliver said:


> I was looking at the big FPS value on the score... This is 700mv



Try out the Witcher 3, yes you will lose something like ~10% FPS but the drop in power consumption will make everything cooler.


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 6, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Try out the Witcher 3, yes you will lose something like ~10% FPS but the drop in power consumption will make everything cooler.


Does MSI Afterbuner have always to stay open like Throttlestop now?


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## nguyen (Dec 6, 2020)

Pizzadeliver said:


> Does MSI Afterbuner have always to stay open like Throttlestop now?



You can leave Afterburner minimized in task bar but don't close it.

You can use the OSD in afterburner to monitor your CPU and GPU temp, really neat stuff.


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 6, 2020)

nguyen said:


> You can leave Afterburner minimized in task bar but don't close it.
> 
> You can use the OSD in afterburner to monitor your CPU and GPU temp, really neat stuff.
> View attachment 178387


Without MSI Cooler boost (vents auto) CPU up to 76°



With MSI Cooler Boost (vents jet-style)


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## nguyen (Dec 6, 2020)

Pizzadeliver said:


> Without MSI Cooler boost (vents auto) CPU up to 76°
> With MSI Cooler Boost (vents jet-style)



Is this with the GPU undervolt ? you can leave the fans at auto, the temperature are fine. 
Monitor your GPU clock and power consumption would give you an idea where to set your optimal undervolt.


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 6, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Is this with the GPU undervolt ? you can leave the fans at auto, the temperature are fine.
> Monitor your GPU clock and power consumption would give you an idea where to set your optimal undervolt.


I dunno if I saw well but It seems 5500mhz both with and without undervolt during the Witcher


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## nguyen (Dec 6, 2020)

Pizzadeliver said:


> I dunno if I saw well but It seems 5500mhz both with and without undervolt during the Witcher



That is the VRAM clocks


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 6, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Is this with the GPU undervolt ? you can leave the fans at auto, the temperature are fine.
> Monitor your GPU clock and power consumption would give you an idea where to set your optimal undervolt.


Care to explain me where I can see the effettive clock? For inceasing the Power Is enough to flat the line at 750/800 etc?


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## nguyen (Dec 6, 2020)

Here is the afterburner settings





here are how they look




Since I lock my GPU at 1290mhz, the power usage can vary from 60W to 70W during games, my 2070 Super Max-Q has a default power usage of 80W.

Well you can experiment with undervolting at 750mV and 800mV, you can switch between the undervolt profile in game anyways, test them out.


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 6, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Here is the afterburner settings
> 
> View attachment 178426
> 
> ...



I do not have the "power" line in my afterburner graphics... Can't find on the web the default power usage of a RTX 2060...
BTW right now on Doom Eternal I get 66/68° on GPU (max 73°) and 74/76° on CPU, max 80


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## nguyen (Dec 7, 2020)

Pizzadeliver said:


> I do not have the "power" line in my afterburner graphics... Can't find on the web the default power usage of a RTX 2060...
> BTW right now on Doom Eternal I get 66/68° on GPU (max 73°) and 74/76° on CPU, max 80



Uninstall Afterburner and RivatunerStatisticServer and install new version, don't worry your overclocking profiles still remain (answer Yes during uninstallation).

Well if you are happy with the performance and thermal with the undervolt, then everything should be alright , I don't think you will notice the performance loss. 

I'm sure you won't get any better with a Renoir Laptop, because they all top out with the 2060 Max-Q version, which is a lower powered version of 2060 (65W vs 80-90W)


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## Pizzadeliver (Dec 7, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Uninstall Afterburner and RivatunerStatisticServer and install new version, don't worry your overclocking profiles still remain (answer Yes during uninstallation).
> 
> Well if you are happy with the performance and thermal with the undervolt, then everything should be alright , I don't think you will notice the performance loss.
> 
> I'm sure you won't get any better with a Renoir Laptop, because they all top out with the 2060 Max-Q version, which is a lower powered version of 2060 (65W vs 80-90W)


Seems like my Afterburner is the last version... Looks like the missin POWER parameters depends on GPU driver



nguyen said:


> Uninstall Afterburner and RivatunerStatisticServer and install new version, don't worry your overclocking profiles still remain (answer Yes during uninstallation).
> 
> Well if you are happy with the performance and thermal with the undervolt, then everything should be alright , I don't think you will notice the performance loss.
> 
> I'm sure you won't get any better with a Renoir Laptop, because they all top out with the 2060 Max-Q version, which is a lower powered version of 2060 (65W vs 80-90W)






Even after CPU and GPU undervolt I still get thermals... I think that's it for this laptop, guess tomorrow morning I'll bring it back.


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## budafuko (Feb 17, 2021)

i have the same laptop and it thermal throttles as well unless i put the laptop on "cooler boost" mode. which actually increases the fan power past "150%" and "fast" in "advanced" or "basic" modes respectively which are posted as max in those modes. "cooler boost" mode seems to boost the fans to 200% power...

you should not have to boost fans to 200% power to get it to stop thermal throttling. 

msi has "assured" me that there is no known issue with the gf65thin sexr which is the Canadian model of your exact computer
if we replace the thermal paste it does not void the warranty

we shouldn't have to but that is a possibility. they told me it should be running at 60 idle and 90 under load and it seems i am running hotter than that idle. i assume its a problem with stingy thermal paste at the factory

he told me just make sure you do not get any thermal paste on the board as they could claim that it was water damage lol u know they cant tell and flux goes all over the board before you dry it if you are doing hot air replacement. just dont get any of their water stickers pink


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