# Fan suggestion X1950XT



## x800professor (Feb 4, 2007)

I have a sapphire X1950XT with a horrible stock fan/heatsink.  It can get into the 90s and if I turn the thing up, it runs at around 5000RPM and sounds like a dustbuster.  I'm going to get a new fan.  I'm not going to go liquid, simply because I don't feel like spending that much.  Any suggestions?


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## Batou1986 (Feb 4, 2007)

acceleo x2 now supports 1950 cards


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## sneekypeet (Feb 4, 2007)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835116017


what about somethin like this if you dont want to go all out H2O


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## x800professor (Feb 4, 2007)

sneekypeet said:


> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835116017
> 
> 
> what about somethin like this if you dont want to go all out H2O



Don't think it would fit on my EVGA 680i motherboard.  The lower PCI slot is right next to the second PCI-E 16x.  I'm just going to go with a regular fan.


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## x800professor (Feb 4, 2007)

Batou1986 said:


> acceleo x2 now supports 1950 cards



Hmm, this one? Or is there a new version of it that supports x1950 cards?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835186002


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## sneekypeet (Feb 4, 2007)

my buddies card uses that cooler....only drawback i see w/it is the air blows into your mobo!


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## x800professor (Feb 4, 2007)

sneekypeet said:


> my buddies card uses that cooler....only drawback i see w/it is the air blows into your mobo!



Um......hmm.  I wonder if there is any way to fix that outside of designing some sort of tube...


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## Lazzer408 (Feb 4, 2007)

Does your card have the same fan issues as the x1950 pro where the fan doesnt hit 100% till >90c? If your fan is running full speed then find a new heatsink. If the fan isnt running full speed then use a utility like ATItraytools to make it run 100% by 65c


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## x800professor (Feb 4, 2007)

Lazzer408 said:


> Does your card have the same fan issues as the x1950 pro where the fan doesnt hit 100% till >90c? If your fan is running full speed then find a new heatsink. If the fan isnt running full speed then use a utility like ATItraytools to make it run 100% by 65c



ATItraytools causes crashes with this card for some reason.  100% = ~5000RPM = Dustbuster like I said in the first post.  With the card in dustbuster mode, the temps do go down, but it is louder than any computer related fan I have ever heard.


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## Ketxxx (Feb 4, 2007)

VF900cu.


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## Lazzer408 (Feb 4, 2007)

x800professor said:


> ATItraytools causes crashes with this card for some reason.  100% = ~5000RPM = Dustbuster like I said in the first post.  With the card in dustbuster mode, the temps do go down, but it is louder than any computer related fan I have ever heard.



  Sorry I didnt know how fast those fans ran. I guess now that I think about it yeh, 5000 is hauling.


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## Batou1986 (Feb 4, 2007)

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=24625


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## lufrey (Feb 4, 2007)

Batou1986 said:


> http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=24625




This is an interesting comparison worth reading, especially the conclusion:
http://www.sudhian.com/index.php?/articles/show/graphics_cooler_roundup/


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## x800professor (Feb 4, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> VF900cu.



I like that one too, but it says X1900, not X1950 for the one one newegg.  Any newer versions out there or does this one actually support X1950 series cards?  Then again, I wonder if the X1950XT has the same cooling setup as the XTX.  It looks like a cooler from an X1900 card...


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## Zubasa (Feb 5, 2007)

x800professor said:


> I like that one too, but it says X1900, not X1950 for the one one newegg.  Any newer versions out there or does this one actually support X1950 series cards?  Then again, I wonder if the X1950XT has the same cooling setup as the XTX.  It looks like a cooler from an X1900 card...


The Accelero X2 was updated to support X1950Pro
The X1950XT PCB is very similar (if not identical) to the X1900series that it was long supported
AND yes! That cooler on your X1950XT is the same thing on the X1900XT/XTX.


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## x800professor (Feb 5, 2007)

Zubasa said:


> The Accelero X2 was updated to support X1950Pro
> The X1950XT PCB is very similar (if not identical) to the X1900series that it was long supported
> AND yes! That cooler on your X1950XT is the same thing on the X1900XT/XTX.



I don't want the X2 because I don't want hot air blown over my motherboard.  The Zalman is certainly a possibility though.  I was thinking about putting that fan on my x800GTO at one point.  I didn't because it's an R430, it wasn't terribly hot and a better fan wasn't going to help my overclocking.


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## Zubasa (Feb 5, 2007)

x800professor said:


> I don't want the X2 because I don't want hot air blown over my motherboard.  The Zalman is certainly a possibility though.  I was thinking about putting that fan on my x800GTO at one point.  I didn't because it's an R430, it wasn't terribly hot and a better fan wasn't going to help my overclocking.


So you rather have hot air blown over your card with the Zalman


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## trt740 (Feb 5, 2007)

Had both Zalmon vf900 and Arctic Cooler both are good but the Accelerox2 is silent the vf900 is almost silent and has a fan controller.  In my opinion the Arctic cooler is a little better, but The Zalman is very good too. Both make fantastic products and if your case has good ventilation it really doesn't matter where the fan blows. I can comment on this since Ive had both you can't go wrong with either. Also remember Zalman makes works of art that cool fantastic but Arctic Cooler is dedicated to making great cooling products that are inexpensive and it shows in this case the Zalman is beautiful but cost alot, the Arctic cooler is cheaper and looks less attractive.


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## x800professor (Feb 5, 2007)

trt740 said:


> Had both Zalmon vf900 and Arctic Cooler both are good but the Accelerox2 is silent the vf900 is almost silent and has a fan controller.  In my opinion the Arctic cooler is a little better, but The Zalman is very good too. Both make fantastic products and if your case has good ventilation it really doesn't matter where the fan blows. I can comment on this since Ive had both you can't go wrong with either. Also remember Zalman makes works of art that cool fantastic but Arctic Cooler is dedicated to making great cooling products that are inexpensive and it shows in this case the Zalman is beautiful but cost alot, the Arctic cooler is cheaper and looks less attractive.



My case has very good ventilation.  It's an armor with the 25cm fan.  This is a tough decision.


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## Batou1986 (Feb 5, 2007)

well no one mentioned that the x2 cools the gpu the ram and the voltage regulators and the zalman only cools the gpu and the cooling system on the x2 is hella larger and has heat pipes
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 image provided from wizz's review


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## Pinchy (Feb 5, 2007)

Arctic cooler IMHO

Uber silent
Keeps temps cool
Cant go wrong


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## x800professor (Feb 5, 2007)

Batou1986 said:


> well no one mentioned that the x2 cools the gpu the ram and the voltage regulators and the zalman only cools the gpu and the cooling system on the x2 is hella larger and has heat pipes
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That looks like it would barely miss that 25cm fan.


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## lufrey (Feb 5, 2007)

Batou1986 said:


> well no one mentioned that the x2 cools the gpu the ram and the voltage regulators and the zalman only cools the gpu and the cooling system on the x2 is hella larger and has heat pipes
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Zalman does cool the RAM as it comes with ramsinks, the fan cools them as the air blows through the heatsink fins. The same goes for the voltage regulators.


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## Loghic (Feb 5, 2007)

Anyone of you knows, if there is an aftermarket soultion for the X1950 XT which delivers the hot air outside the case?


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## Sasqui (Feb 5, 2007)

These are the only ones I came up with:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835110015

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835106089


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## x800professor (Feb 6, 2007)

Sasqui said:


> These are the only ones I came up with:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835110015
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835106089



I should make a poll for this...


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## x800professor (Feb 6, 2007)

OK, now there's a poll on this thread.


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## x800professor (Feb 6, 2007)

One vote thus far?  Come on, everybody had an opinion a second ago!


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## DOM (Feb 6, 2007)

im stuck between ! 1st one cuz good reviews and its cheap and the 2nd one cuz it aslo has a good review and it blows the air out


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## x800professor (Feb 7, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> im stuck between ! 1st one cuz good reviews and its cheap and the 2nd one cuz it aslo has a good review and it blows the air out



Welcome to my world.


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## DOM (Feb 7, 2007)

x800professor said:


> Welcome to my world.



  ive been   alot myself  

cuz my IceQ3 Turbo Cooler is kind of like the Thermaltake cuz my idle is 38C stock 2d speeds volts and on load is about 55 right now stock 3d speed volts

but the Accelero X2 is also cheap but doesnt blow the hot air out


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## AshenSugar (Feb 7, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> VF900cu.



ditto

yes it fits pretty much any current card, even ones not listed( had to mod my buddys for his x1300xt based AIW card(some weird chinese brand with weird layout)  but that was just shaving 1/8" off of a couple fins to avoid conntact between them and the shell over the tuner.

the zalman cooler the whole card, it comes with ram sinks for the memory, and due to the design it blows air over THE WHOLE CARD, the vrm's get cooled as well.

my advice, pull the sink ont he card off and greese it up, then put it back on, the stock pad dosnt move head as well dry as it does if you wet it down with some goop 

im at toxic bios now on my x1900xt/xtx and still have headroom, highest temps i have seen on core after over 3hrs of farcry(1600x1200 maxed with hdr+aa) was 71c in a warm room.
after 2hrs of fable i was at around 68, 1600x1200, 2x t3aa, 8xaf,  and the accelro blows heat onto ur board and any card below it, as such it raises their temp, and if you got a card that puts out some heat of its own that can be a problem, my buddys got a 4 port gbit pci-e nic in his system( its the server for the house and his game box) the cards controler chip normaly is just hot enought that  u dont want to keep ur finger on it, with the accelero it was so hot that the card acctualy started throwing errors, after adding a small old 486 stickon fanned cooler it stoped doing that but he still ended up swaping the cooler off with another friend of ours for a zalman heatpipe the guy had that wouldnt work on the card he had(he didnt read around, the heatpipe he got wouldnt fit some aiw cards)
i ended up installing the heatpipe, took about 15min total no biggie.

kingwin has a nice heatpipe cooler that works well on x1900 cards, i have installed 3 so far, it comes with 3 fans that install across the top of the card blowing air over the whole card and over the heatsinks/pipes, but its a bit more work to install and some think it looks like a waffle iron


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## Taz100420 (Feb 7, 2007)

Id go Thermaltake IMHO just because it exhausts the heat out unless you have huge case fans and dont mind the hot air on the mobo<----X2

never used a Zalman tho......


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## x800professor (Feb 7, 2007)

Taz100420 said:


> Id go Thermaltake IMHO just because it exhausts the heat out unless you have huge case fans and dont mind the hot air on the mobo<----X2
> 
> never used a Zalman tho......




I have an armor with a 25cm fan.  Not to mention a rear 120mm, top 90mm, rear 90mm (two fans in the rear), and a front 120mm.  My case has all kinds of airflow.  I still don't like the idea of blowing heat into it just because of the way the air flows.  Around the processor and video card the 25cm sucks air in, which goes into my big typhoon and the rear 120mm sucks the air out.  If that hot air is introduced right next to the 25cm fan, it's going to heat the CPU...which I don't want.


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## x800professor (Feb 7, 2007)

Wait a minute...that thermaltake can't monitor fan RPM...can it?  I don't see any connectors to the video card...


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## Pinchy (Feb 7, 2007)

Acellero FTW


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## trt740 (Feb 7, 2007)

then vantec is nice and there is a version 6, however both the zalman and the Arctic cooler perform better.


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## x800professor (Feb 7, 2007)

Well, the vantec certainly isn't too popular.  I was thinking about that thermaltake, but it seems that I can't control the fan.  I'm don't like that much.


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## x800professor (Feb 7, 2007)

I know this card has more left in it if I get a better fan setup.  I ran 3dmark05 with the core running at 634.5 on my core 2 duo @ 3.6GHz system and scored 12613.  My CPU got a 11821.    I bet I could get closer to 13000 if I could just do some actual overclocking.


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## trt740 (Feb 7, 2007)

Get the Zalman then It has a fan controller and Is almost as silent as the Accellero x2 I know had them both.


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## trt740 (Feb 7, 2007)

my x1900xt 256 at 693/783  with overdrive was getting in the mid 12000's If I had time at 720/810 it would have hit near 13000 i'm sure of it, but sold it before I could test it again. Got a 7900gtx 512 gonna test it soon but i'm having trouble with 3dmarks05 install.


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## Grings (Feb 7, 2007)

my x2 has actually made my motherboard cooler (was 36c, 31c after fitting x2), not hotter, due to having a grille in the side of my case right next to the x2's fan


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## Sasqui (Feb 7, 2007)

The Thermaltake is relatively new, but looks like a really good cooler, exhausts out of the case, and cools memory too (comes with thermal pads).  I'd go with that if you are worried about heating up your case.


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## x800professor (Feb 7, 2007)

Sasqui said:


> The Thermaltake is relatively new, but looks like a really good cooler, exhausts out of the case, and cools memory too (comes with thermal pads).  I'd go with that if you are worried about heating up your case.



Even if I can't control the fan?


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## x800professor (Feb 7, 2007)

Whenever I do get whatever fan I end up getting, I'll post the results of overclocking.  Here's my stock 3dmark06 score.  Not bad for a "midrange" card.


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## AshenSugar (Feb 8, 2007)

looks like uneed a new monotor u tryed merkortech?  good cheap units shiped free( search free shiping on their site for the best deals)   17in is just to small


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## x800professor (Feb 8, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> looks like uneed a new monotor u tryed merkortech?  good cheap units shiped free( search free shiping on their site for the best deals)   17in is just to small



Yeah, I know.  I have a 22in Professional CRT at home, which I love.  2048x1536 is something you just won't see on a 22in LCD.  However, I will probably be getting a 22in LCD sometime soon.  I've never even heard of merkortech.  I was planning on using newegg.  Probably going to start a monitor suggestion thread soon.


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## AshenSugar (Feb 8, 2007)

k, merkortech sells referb, new, used monotors (used are off lease and such) all are graded eather A(flawless) b(possable small scraches most times on the plastic, maby sticker marks and such, nothing that makes it bad to use) b-/c are normaly small scratches on the tube, very faint but they are there.

they also sell lcd's, but for large monotors i prefer a high end crt, my buddy just spend 235bucks for a 22" DVI-D crt from them SHIPED it took a 6 days to get to him, was rated as class b, it had some scuffing on the stand and back of the plastic nothing else wrong with it at all, its 2*** res "native" but unlike lcd's going lower has ZERO effect on image quility, i want one, but i got a 20.1in lcd for free recently(dell 2001fp, nice unit no ghosting at all) because its power cube had a dead fuse unit, took 5 min to replace!!!

1600x1200 on a 2x" monotor is plenty for me, i got a projector if i need larger screen for movies and such!!!


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## AshenSugar (Feb 8, 2007)

forggot to say i have used merkortech for years, good stuff, never had any problem with them, the one unit they sent that arrived damnaged was UPS's fault and they shiped me a replacment rush dellivery(2day) no extra charge, didnt make me deal with ups about the damnage!!!

www.merkortech.com  u want the accurat IT side  they also sell used comps and such as well   my buddy got 2 ultra sparc comps from them ones a niagra chip(pretty current) very cheap, great units for learning solaris on


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## x800professor (Feb 8, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> forggot to say i have used merkortech for years, good stuff, never had any problem with them, the one unit they sent that arrived damnaged was UPS's fault and they shiped me a replacment rush dellivery(2day) no extra charge, didnt make me deal with ups about the damnage!!!
> 
> www.merkortech.com  u want the accurat IT side  they also sell used comps and such as well   my buddy got 2 ultra sparc comps from them ones a niagra chip(pretty current) very cheap, great units for learning solaris on



See that p1220 on merkortech?  That's my baby.  BEAUTIFUL picture.  I got mine off of ebay in perfect condition for WAY less than that ($120 shipped) though.


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## x800professor (Feb 8, 2007)

It's also http://www.accurateit.com/ now.


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## x800professor (Feb 8, 2007)

Well, it's still a tie.  Lovely.


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## Sasqui (Feb 8, 2007)

x800professor said:


> Even if I can't control the fan?



Oh, no shit... bummer, missed little tidbit - I wonder what the fan sounds like on that thing?


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## AshenSugar (Feb 9, 2007)

well the zalman maxed out is SILENT


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## x800professor (Feb 9, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> well the zalman maxed out is SILENT



And is now in the lead!  Yay for Zalman.


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## trt740 (Feb 9, 2007)

No the Zalman maxed out is not silent I've had one but the Accelerox2 is, the advantage the Zalman has is it comes with a fan controller and is quiet on high but far from silent. The Arctic cooler is in fact silent not quiet, Silent!!!!! Also the Zalman Looks slightly better and is silent at about 80% on the fan controller. They perform very close so close I couldn't really tell you which was better. I will tell you the Zalman Is also more future proof since they generally fit almost every video card where the Arctic cooler won't. The Arctic cooler for the price / performance is better bang for the buck. If you have the money flip a coin. The only cooling device where one or the other takes the lead is case fans the Arctic cooler 120mm Ac12 is the best!!!!! but that another topic.


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## Pinchy (Feb 9, 2007)

trt740 said:


> No the Zalman maxed out is not silent I've had one but the Accelerox2 is, the advantage the Zalman has is it comes with a fan controller and is quiet on high but far from silent. The Arctic cooler is in fact silent not quiet, Silent!!!!! Also the Zalman Looks slightly better and is silent at about 80% on the fan controller..



Thats all true, but i dont think thats enough to spend almost double the price for it


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## trt740 (Feb 9, 2007)

I can see that point, Arctic cooler is the king of Bang for your buck.


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## Pinchy (Feb 9, 2007)

If price is no issue what-so-ever, go zalman...its got the fan controller, and i reckon looks better.

If price does phase you, and you dont mind having an elephant on ur card , go AC, its really silent (even at 100%), great cooling and cools the whole card with heatpipes


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## trt740 (Feb 9, 2007)

It really is a monster and on hi might double as a delta wing  silent stealth fighter


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## AshenSugar (Feb 9, 2007)

humm, mines silent, i tested it outside my case b4 installing it, even dirrectly powerd by the psu i couldnt hear it without putting ur ear next to the fan.

now the vf700 was a  bit louder(lighted version) but duno if that was due to the fan itself or bad barings(the fan failed after 4 months, zalman replaced that one with the fat1ity unit free of charge) 

personaly i find my zalman cools the whole card quite well, the only heat issues i had where 100% due to the vrm heatsink needing gooped( common if you check other forums) once gooped the zalman blows air over the WHOLE CARD keeping it happy.

i added some cheap stickon memory sinks(the kind got TSOP ddr modules) to the cards regs as well just to keep all temps as low as possable , the stock cooler was a bit noisy when i tested it off the card, would bee good for blowing out ur case maby


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## tkpenalty (Feb 9, 2007)

Accelero X2 is a better design, the heat from the GPU and ram are transferred through three heatpipes and dissipated by the cooling fan and fins. The VF900CU is similar but, it blows hot air from the "flower cooler" onto the RAM sometimes even heating up the RAM (My own experience with a similar setup). 

The more heatpipes you have, the bigger your <Insert part here>. 

Accelero X2 IMHO is by far the best if you don't consider water cooling. At 100% fan speeds it basically sounds the same as it is at 0%... I couldn't note any difference in noise!!!

The VF900 will make some noise at 100% fan speed.

Note that the VF900 is more efficient in transferring heat as opposed to the VF900... a double edged sword as the fan is blowing straight down, pumping heat down (up) to the PCB around it,  heating up the memory!!!!!!!, the AcceleroX2 does not do that, with the heatpipes on ALL the components, then the heat being transferred off the PCB. The Accelero has a hole on the side to blow the memory, using the fresh intake air.

The VF900 will not heed better results than the Accelero X2 overall, especially for memory cooling.

(This debate is as heated or even more heated than ATI VS NVIDIA its a case of AC VS Zalman now!!! OH NOES!!!)

EDIT: The AcceleroX2 delivers more performance and better thermal paste for a much cheaper price than the VF900 CU overall. 

Still not convinced? 

The VF900 is heavier than the AccleroX2 and has one less heatpipe = less efficiency.


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## AshenSugar (Feb 9, 2007)

you fail it, you fail to note that the accelero also spreds heat from the GPU to the ram and everything else due to design, also blowing ALOT of heat backinto the system.

every vf900 i have seen has lowered ram and card temps, the heat the vf900 is dissapaiting isnt any higher then the ram already is on most of these acrds, and the movement of air keeps the ram from building up heat, had AC made the accelero so it blew the heat out the back of the case then i would agree it was better, but after ALOT of research b4 i got my card and cooler for  myself(including installing 2 acceleros and a few zalmans for people) i found i preferd not blowing that much heat onto my motherboard and also not having that truely  MASSIVE cooler on my card, and one of the acceleros installed wasnt 100% silent if you put your ear to the cooler u could hear it same as the 900.

and more heatpipes dosnt alwase mean more efficent, thats like saying more mhz means faster(netburst logic) the pipes used on the vf900 are shorter and larger around then the ones used on the accelro, diffrent designs, and diffrent ways to dissapait heat, i just prefer that my card not bloe all that heat dirrectly onto my mobo heating up the pcb+chipset+every other chip on the board+any addin cards below it.

perf wise, well if installed properly eather ones gonna do the job.

and water coolings a pain in the arse!!!


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## x800professor (Feb 9, 2007)

...and of course it's a tie again.


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## Wile E (Feb 9, 2007)

I have the Accelero X2 on my X1800, it's silent and it cools well. Although everyone complains that it heats the board, in my case, chipset temps went up 2-3*C. More than acceptable, imo. If those 2-3*C are gonna cause probs with your chipset, then it was already time to find a better cooling solution for it.  I should also note that I have great airflow, so if your setup doesn't move a lot of air the heat will become more of an issue. The way I see it, although the Zalman may not blow directly on the chipset, it still blows in the case, therefore bringing system temps up as well. So the system heat argument is moot between the 2, anyway. The Zalman almost costs twice as much as the Accelero as well. You could use that extra money to buy some case fans and help evacuate any heat caused by it.


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## tkpenalty (Feb 9, 2007)

The VF doesn't cool the GPU better than the AcceleroX2! X800Professor, with the extra money you can buy heaps of fans, blowers, and even a better chipset cooler.


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## Pinchy (Feb 9, 2007)

I say its a tie, they cool around the same, BUT, i dont think the zalman is worth almost double the price for just the fan controller...


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## AshenSugar (Feb 9, 2007)

some other options that are cheap and get the job done and for the most part are univercil for any card u throw them on.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835124006
kingwin heatpipe, comes with 3 fans and the works, its 15bucks.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835999001
logisys 18bucks, comes with LARGE fan, works fine on any card u like and coolls whole card same as kingwin just diffrent layout.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835133011
18bucks
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835133010
20bucks  eather looks like a decent cooler, i havent had the chance to install one yet tho.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835118216
and the zalman heatpipe unit that works on virtualy any videocard, you can add a fan (zalman has one or u can add your own, i used a 14cm fan (green lighted) on the last one i installed)


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## tkpenalty (Feb 9, 2007)

>_>, the Zalman heatpipe cooler sucks man wtf... Why do you even recommend it? Its good for silence and compatability, not good enough for the X1950XT i'm afraid. These that you recommended don't work on the X1950 series.


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## AshenSugar (Feb 9, 2007)

the ones i listed work on pretty much any card, and the zalman heatpipe(dual pipe) is more then enought to cool a x1900xtx as long as you add a fan be it a 70mm fan,80mm fan,92mmb fan,  120mm fan or 140mm fan.

i have installed them on 1800xt and 1900xtx cards, and they did the job quite well, they have alot of serfice area and with some airflow they can dissapate alot of heat.

this isnt the OLD heatpipe this is the newer version that uses 2 gold plaited coper pipes, but even the old one can do the trick, as i have seen from my buddys overclocked x1900xtx(bios overclocked).

as i said the middle 2 i havent used, but they are listed as working for the x1k cards(1800xt/1900 included)  the heatpipes, they all work on whatever card you wana slap them on.

till you have acctualy installed some of these coolers or tested them maby u shouldnt say "they wont work" or "they arent good enough"  i have seen people say a freezer64pro isnt good enought to cool an overclocked a64, i have seen people say that the iceberq copper chipset cooler wasnt good enought to cool modern mobo chipsets, guess what, its better then any mobo chipset stock cooler i have ever seen, be it heatpipe, massive passive, acctive sink or whatever u like.

i went with the vf900 because it had very good reviews and would work on any card i had/came into and it was on sale so i spend 28bucks on it(about 6bucks more then the accelero x2 at the time) i had installed an accelro and didnt like the massive size+heat being dirrected at my mobo heating up the chipset(would be getting almost dirrect heat from the videocard) 
even the zalman heatpipe dosnt take up as much space as the accelero, and it aint small


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## Zubasa (Feb 9, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> >_>, the Zalman heatpipe cooler sucks man wtf... Why do you even recommend it? Its good for silence and compatability, not good enough for the X1950XT i'm afraid. These that you recommended don't work on the X1950 series.


Actually the Zalman isn't bad at all, I just got one today and it works nicely.


----------



## lufrey (Feb 9, 2007)

There is a lot of argument about cost. I think as enthusiasts, the money that you spend on a decent performing cooler is worth it. Plus, it has to look decent also, and I don't think the Zalman units are exactly ugly.

For me, looks is secondary to cooling performance, and most Zalman coolers that I have used, are up there with the best.


----------



## lufrey (Feb 9, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> >_>, the Zalman heatpipe cooler sucks man wtf... Why do you even recommend it? Its good for silence and compatability, not good enough for the X1950XT i'm afraid. These that you recommended don't work on the X1950 series.



You're entitled to your own opinion mate  . If you want to see a direct comparison between the Zalman VF900-CU and the AC Accellero X2, then look at the review, then judge from there: 
http://www.sudhian.com/index.php?/articles/show/graphics_cooler_roundup/

As for compatibility, the Zalman fits on my X1950 pro just fine


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 9, 2007)

lufrey said:


> There is a lot of argument about cost. I think as enthusiasts, the money that you spend on a decent performing cooler is worth it. Plus, it has to look decent also, and I don't think the Zalman units are exactly ugly.
> 
> For me, looks is secondary to cooling performance, and most Zalman coolers that I have used, are up there with the best.



But why would you spend more if you can get something that does the same job?


----------



## lufrey (Feb 9, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> But why would you spend more if you can get something that does the same job?



Well, they all do the same job, some just do a better job than others 
As you can see, at full load, there is a 15C difference between the AC and Zalman. I know which one I'd pick. You can pick the less efficient, hotter AC unit if you like.


----------



## x800professor (Feb 9, 2007)

lufrey said:


> You're entitled to your own opinion mate  . If you want to see a direct comparison between the Zalman VF900-CU and the AC Accellero X2, then look at the review, then judge from there:
> http://www.sudhian.com/index.php?/articles/show/graphics_cooler_roundup/
> 
> As for compatibility, the Zalman fits on my X1950 pro just fine



The Zalman won...while raising CPU temps.    However, my airflow is probably not far behind anyone's so I don't think my CPU temps would be upped by much.  Now, X2 owners, do me a favor.  How far beyond the edge of the card does that fan stick out?  I don't have much room because I have a 25cm fan on the side of my case that I don't want to lose.

Oh yeah, and it's a tie again.  Are we going to have to bring in the supreme court for this one?


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 9, 2007)

Not much, like maybe 4~3 CM, the Zalman only wins marginally for the Core cooling but is absolute shit when it comes to cooling the memory; the hot exaust pushed by the Zalman fan heats up the memory sometimes.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 9, 2007)

lufrey said:


> You're entitled to your own opinion mate  . If you want to see a direct comparison between the Zalman VF900-CU and the AC Accellero X2, then look at the review, then judge from there:
> http://www.sudhian.com/index.php?/articles/show/graphics_cooler_roundup/
> 
> As for compatibility, the Zalman fits on my X1950 pro just fine



>_> Yes, and you will be finding that your memory modules have no increase in cooling.


----------



## KennyT772 (Feb 9, 2007)

i just purchased the vf900cu and and an 8 pack of these -> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835119061
these ramsinks are friggin humongous compared to the tiny little zalman ones but i had one fall off while my card was running. so if you get those let it sit for a night and setup. my temps are the same as the stock cooler at 71% fanspeed...aka jet taking off. it is a good cooler though.


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 9, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> >_> Yes, and you will be finding that your memory modules have no increase in cooling.



um i gotta call bullshit on this, the airflow from the fan blowing over the ramsinks cools the ram quite well, and i have yet to see it raise ram temps, because the heat comming off the cooler/core is lower then the temp of your ddr3 is stock.

your x2 also shares core heat with the ram, look at the design, heat leaches back from the core and VRM's and everything else back into the ram, all heat is SHARED between the parts in the end because its 1 heatsink not multi sinks, the zlaman blows warm air over the whole card when under HEAVY load, but not hot air, and it lowers VRM temps quite alot, if it was raising ram temp it would raise VRM temp as well since the same air going over the ram is going over the VRM's






i guarntee if the cores cooler then the ram and vrm's are cooler as well


----------



## lufrey (Feb 10, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> your x2 also shares core heat with the ram, look at the design, heat leaches back from the core and VRM's and everything else back into the ram, all heat is SHARED between the parts in the end because its 1 heatsink not multi sinks, the zlaman blows warm air over the whole card when under HEAVY load, but not hot air, and it lowers VRM temps quite alot, if it was raising ram temp it would raise VRM temp as well since the same air going over the ram is going over the VRM's
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree 100%


----------



## pt (Feb 10, 2007)

there isn't the hr-03 on that list


----------



## lufrey (Feb 10, 2007)

pt said:


> there isn't the hr-03 on that list



The HR-03 is a great unit with fantastic performance, and can be used in SLI. Too big for me though, i'm in the process of changing to a slimline HTPC case and it is just a bit too big.


----------



## pt (Feb 10, 2007)

lufrey said:


> The HR-03 is a great unit with fantastic performance, and can be used in SLI. Too big for me though, i'm in the process of changing to a slimline HTPC case and it is just a bit too big.



k, then, wich is the case?


----------



## lufrey (Feb 10, 2007)

pt said:


> k, then, wich is the case?



My new case will be the cooler master CM Media 260, I want something slim to fit in the hifi cabinet.


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 10, 2007)

u can check the full review of the vf900 here
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/zalman_vf900-cu/


----------



## pt (Feb 10, 2007)

how are you going to put a x1950xt in there???


----------



## lufrey (Feb 10, 2007)

pt said:


> how are you going to put a x1950xt in there???



Actually it's an x1950 pro, and it does just fit, the PCI-E riser card that you have to purchase separately allows you to horizontally mount the card. My only problem is that I had to install a custom fan with ducting to suck the hot air out from the video card area. Apart from that, it matches the hifi quite well.


----------



## Ketxxx (Feb 10, 2007)

x800professor said:


> I like that one too, but it says X1900, not X1950 for the one one newegg.  Any newer versions out there or does this one actually support X1950 series cards?  Then again, I wonder if the X1950XT has the same cooling setup as the XTX.  It looks like a cooler from an X1900 card...



I'd be very surprised if ati had to move the hsf mounting holes in any shape or form. So it should all be fine.


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 10, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> I'd be very surprised if ati had to move the hsf mounting holes in any shape or form. So it should all be fine.


Yup, the mounting holes on X1800, X1900, and X1950 series are standardized. 
The PCB design are also 80% the same. (Even the X1950Pro has a different core, the design is still developed from the X1900 series)


----------



## x800professor (Feb 11, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> u can check the full review of the vf900 here
> http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/zalman_vf900-cu/



The reviews are even mixed...this one says that it doesn't really do a whole lot to the temps on the card while the other one shows much difference.  Yay for more confusion.


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 11, 2007)

dosnt do a whole lot compared to the stock cooler at 100% fan(VERY LOUD) but gives same perf as stock at 100% with the fan set at 60%, stock coolers good if you can stand the noise!!!


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 11, 2007)

Lets put it this way, the Zalman is very ambient based so if you wanted to run the PC silent, you will find the temperatures are f***ed. The reviews where the VF900CU won were usually not installed in the PC. With the AccceleroX2, its similar but you will find more consistent results. I just got to comment, if you want clutter, get the VF900CU.

Overall, the VF900 CU will blow hot air onto the PCB, and the heat will accumulate on the PCB (Convection sucks!). I seriously think the VF900 CU is overpriced though, costing much more than the CNPS 7700CU.

AcceleroX2 is waaay cheaper and lighter. I have to say, Do you guys realise why there are lower temperatures on the core? Thats because there is more heat being removed, with the heat being removed convection occurs, the air doesn "blow to the side", it BLOWS DOWN!!!. The hot air then accumulates.






Okay its just a picture, do we trust it NO. 

Meanwhile... another battle in another galaxy...between the two titans..

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=93803


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 11, 2007)

*Just so you guys get a re-ed not to read from those propaganda bastards:*

http://www.sudhian.com/showdocs.cfm?aid=743&pid=2929

Most of you guys aren't reading from the right sources, usually from those people who post advertising crap everywhere, compare the temps between the stock and AcceleroX2.. notice anything?

Compare the results to that picture even if they are different.

If you haven't realised this is how cool the AcceleroX2 runs-on an X1800
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ArcticCooling/AcceleroX2/5

Yes, from a trusted source, props to W1ZZARD.

I don't understand how you guys would think a breeze of 35*C air would kill the motherboard. If the GPU was facing up towards the CPU I would complain.

On that forum, keep reading.


OFF TOPIC:

Btw whoever thinks the HIS IceQ coolers will work better seriously need a re-ed, physics 101 mate, heat rises! It doesn't fall unless forced with a noisy fan! Even if it "Exausts heat in to the rear of the case" Consider how little air is being moved! If it was a blower-type fan they would heed better results. But no... heat is initially trapped and escapes through slowly, due to the weak fan's output. The Accelero/Zalman design ensures there is more dissipation area. If you wanted something of equivalence, you would need a three-slot cooling solution which doesnt exist.


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 11, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Lets put it this way, the Zalman is very ambient based so if you wanted to run the PC silent, you will find the temperatures are f***ed. The reviews where the VF900CU won were usually not installed in the PC. With the AccceleroX2, its similar but you will find more consistent results. I just got to comment, if you want clutter, get the VF900CU.
> 
> Overall, the VF900 CU will blow hot air onto the PCB, and the heat will accumulate on the PCB (Convection sucks!). I seriously think the VF900 CU is overpriced though, costing much more than the CNPS 7700CU.
> 
> ...



first your correct, vf900 will raise board temps a bit, not even close to as much as a cooler that blows the hot air down onto the card, and the vf900 blows the air UP and OUT away from the card/core, with decent caseairflow the heats moved out the back of the case VERY FAST and dosnt acumulate on the board as it will with a cooler that blows all the heat dirrectly onto the board.



> VF900 vs Accelero X2
> For those people considering the purchase of the most recent aftermarket
> coolers for their VGA cards, here is a comparison article I found, plotting the
> 
> ...



your own battle says the vf900 is better


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 11, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> first your correct, vf900 will raise board temps a bit, not even close to as much as a cooler that blows the hot air down onto the card, and the vf900 blows the air UP and OUT away from the card/core, with decent caseairflow the heats moved out the back of the case VERY FAST and dosnt acumulate on the board as it will with a cooler that blows all the heat dirrectly onto the board.
> 
> 
> 
> your own battle says the vf900 is better



read on, the last four pages are about people bitching about how poor the VF900's cooling capability is.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 11, 2007)

One_Hertz; another guy on another forum;259931 said:
			
		

> Holy crap just got an X2 and its absolutely amazing! i used RHTBL full screen 1650*1050 16 multisample to measure the temps, which will heat up my card MUCH MORE than any other program possibly can. Keep in mind I am using AS5 so I'll lose a few degrees overtime... Keep in mind I kept the stock fan at 50% at all times and the X2 fan at 100% and the stocvk was MUCH MUCH louder. Ambient was 24C during both test and the side of my case was open.
> 
> Idle
> 
> ...



Yup. That says it all.


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 11, 2007)

a little more quoting form your thred 



			
				frytek said:
			
		

> ell i'm going to put the 900cu on my cold running xtx. even at idle this thing seems noisy to me
> 
> edit: i jusp plugged the zalman in to hear what it sounds like. that review is completely misleading as far as noise goes.
> the stock xtx cooler even on idle has a distinct and always audable rumble to it which seems to be common on these type of fans as well as fans like the old 80x80x25mm thermatlakes (only this ati is worse)
> ...



now to weight, i really think ur wrong but im checking x2 weight against vf900, the x2's i have installed are far larger then the vf900, more metel and plastic involved.

ok x2=5.64 shiping
vf900=4.99
working on finding the acctualy weight,

ok  


			
				Zalman vf900cu specs page said:
			
		

> Specifications
> 
> - Dimensions : 96(L) X 96(W) X 30(H)mm
> *- Weight : 185g *
> ...





			
				Arctic Cooling x2 spec page said:
			
		

> Heat Sink:	 	152(L) x 90(W) x 30(H) mm
> Fan:	 	141(L) x 120(W) x 28(H) mm
> Overall Dimensions:	 	152(L) x 120(W) x 30(H) mm
> Rated Fan Speed:	 	2000 RPM
> ...



gee that looks like ur x2 is HEAVYER  lets see 260g>185g  thats makes the x2 75g heavyer

you can admit your blowing smoke now if you like 

as to your 


> Btw whoever thinks the HIS IceQ coolers will work better seriously need a re-ed, physics 101 mate, heat rises! It doesn't fall unless forced with a noisy fan! Even if it "Exausts heat in to the rear of the case" Consider how little air is being moved! If it was a blower-type fan they would heed better results. But no... heat is initially trapped and escapes through slowly, due to the weak fan's output. The Accelero/Zalman design ensures there is more dissipation area. If you wanted something of equivalence, you would need a three-slot cooling solution which doesnt exist.


his iceq cooler is made by AC, and it infact dose move a decent ammount of air, its just an evolution on the old scilencer using the same kind of fan that your vaunted x2 uses just using it to blow out the back of the case insted of down onto the mobo, also not that due to heat rising the heats going to get sucked back into the fan on the x2 as it trys to find a way around the videocard to escape from the case(not as bad if you take all your slot protectors out as i alwase do)


----------



## lufrey (Feb 11, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Okay its just a picture, do we trust it NO.
> 
> Meanwhile... another battle in another galaxy...between the two titans..
> 
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=93803



Yes, it is a picture, and I got it from sudihan: http://www.sudhian.com/index.php?/articles/show/graphics_cooler_roundup/

And the xtremsystems link you are quoting also refers to this review. Do we trust it? Do we trust anything on the internet? 

I would far believe a review from a reputable website, than one done by an individual on some forum where it results can be forged or biased IMHO.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 11, 2007)

Look at W1zzard's review. HE DID IT.
That website is exaclty the same, except there is no feedback so the person can post whatever he likes. 
I am saying that that review is seriously full of oddities, they didn't show it installed or anything, nor disconstructed. 

@Ashen whoops my bad on the weight part.

I will personally ask W1zzard to test the VF900 CU out.


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 11, 2007)

yes people can make misstakes installing devices, i used mixed as5 and some goop i have that NEVER DRYS OUT(so that i dont gotta reapply it regularly) and also i dont use motherboard fan headers OR the fan controler, dirrect from psu power is best,  fully overclocked the cards mased out so far at 68c with the case side on, but the case side fan dissabled(didnt have it connected because it was for testing only not leaving the side on)

a good tip for anybody with one of these cards specly from cheaper makers.


			
				uwackme said:
			
		

> I must repeat.
> 
> Check the SHIM vs CORE height. My XT has the core just above SHIM height, but my brothers XT has the CORE just even.
> 
> ...



seen a few x800's like that, sucks but happens, mostly with cheaper makers who cut corners to keep the cost down, so they use shims that are to thick, mine was no worrie, the core was a bit higher then the shim and gives perfect conntact!!!

seems after looking around that alot of people are finding x19*0 cards that need the shim removed for use with 3rd party cooolers........great, mostly are lower end brands it seems but a few bba cards


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 11, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Look at W1zzard's review. HE DID IT.
> That website is exaclty the same, except there is no feedback so the person can post whatever he likes.
> I am saying that that review is seriously full of oddities, they didn't show it installed or anything, nor disconstructed.
> 
> ...



that would kick, also as i said never use mobo headers, i have found a good number of reports of people using mobo headers for the vf900 and having fan speed/perf issues, many of todays mobos limmit overall fanspeed OR voltege, using dirrect power from the cpu gives best perf, and as stated in every review i have seen, even at max you cant hear the vf900 from over 3inches away.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 11, 2007)

^Dude, it comes with a 4-pin molex fan speed controller, I think I know that some motherboard headers limit voltages to stop fans from shorting out.


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 11, 2007)

mine came with the normal 3pin mobo attachment and a 3pin controler and a 4pin adapter, i use the 4 pin adapter no speed controler.

most people seem to be using the board header+speed controler, this is far from optimal as it puts 2 limmiters in line.

and some boards limmit volts to fans to keep them from being noisy as well, good boards let you dissable auto speed controle/limmit fetures, but then again, asus bios suck hard(current board) i found a program just after i got this board that let me set fanspeed maxed out and my lighted fans where about 1/3 brighter.....thats crazy.....


----------



## blade33 (Feb 11, 2007)

*Also looking for Fan suggestion  Powercolor X1950XTX*

I still dont have my new system til 1 or 2 days its been put together by an gaming retailer 
similar to alienware. I can put together myself except not sure how to optimize the ddr2 
ram to get best performence out.

I thinking of changeing the cooler on 1950 XTX as well looking at Thermalright HR-03 or
Zalman VF900-Cu LED (Copper) Dual Heatpipe!

Has anyone tryed doing the same thing as well!


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 11, 2007)

xt and xtx are the same card, just some xt cards have 256mb insted of 512mb, the vf900 works on eather, if you dont need the led go with the normal version.

vf900 works GREAT on my card just dont use mobo fan headers, connect it dirrectly to the psu


----------



## x800professor (Feb 12, 2007)

The X2 is 120mm wide...I don't think that would even fit in my case.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 12, 2007)

If it fits in my tiny mid-tower, then it should fit in yours, ESPECIALLY THE ARMOR, thats like one of the hugest cases.

The gap is intentional, it makes sure cool air does not mix with hot air that easily.


----------



## blade33 (Feb 12, 2007)

ok except ive seen even better then X2 is the Thermalright HR-03 VGA cooler 
ive seen someone put it on Sapphire Radeon X1950XTX and he said it works great.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 12, 2007)

Won't that raise CPU temps? It looks awsome though tbh, but whats with the aluminium contact core, only thing I would be worried about would be the RAM cooling as well as the PVM; nothing is blowing air on it!.


----------



## blade33 (Feb 12, 2007)

the temps would be even lower then both zalman and X2 , once added a 92mm fan to 
Thermalright HR-03 im trying to find the link again to show how the set up looks 
with 1950XTX


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 12, 2007)

nope it aint. Especially since hes got a TT big typhoon installed. 

I scream: ACCELEROX2!


----------



## lufrey (Feb 12, 2007)

The Thermalright HR-03 is a beastie, and surprisingly works in SLI configuration. If you have a large case, it would work well.


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 12, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> I scream: ACCELEROX2!



we know we know, sorry that we dont all agree, clam down, i know ur only 14, a good lession to learn now would be to accept that you have given your advice, you have posted your supporting evedance, and now its time to talk about something else (hijack the thred )

he will deside what he desides, i have installed bouth(unlike you) and for temps, i would rate properly installed x2 vs vf900 very close, main diffrance being that the x2 blows head down under the card and onto the mobo and the vf900 defuses the heat everywhere.


meh, just my exp, oh and Please dont buy one of those thermaltake water coolers, they suck for a few reasions, the gpu gets cooled well but the vrm's,memory and such get NO cooling at all.


----------



## lufrey (Feb 12, 2007)

Well x800professor, it's now up to you to make your choice, you've heard the arguments for and against the two main coolers mentioned. Good luck with the selection, let us know what you decide


----------



## blade33 (Feb 12, 2007)

i found the link have a look       http://wwww.techpowerup.com/gallery/589
and by the way i also have 7900 GT with Zalman VF900-CU it works very good as 
well i dont think its best because i have it too...  

You have Accelero X2 ATI on your powercolor which very good(not best 1) as well i still think 
the Thermalright HR-03 uses 4 heat pipes for an even distribution of heat and thats better 
then   Accelero X2 that has 2 or 3 only heat pipes


----------



## x800professor (Feb 13, 2007)

lufrey said:


> Well x800professor, it's now up to you to make your choice, you've heard the arguments for and against the two main coolers mentioned. Good luck with the selection, let us know what you decide



I'm warming up to the X2, I got down on the floor and took a better look at where my GPU is in comparison to that massive side fan (25cm of goodness).  The very bottom of the fan is as low as the GPU.  I have about two inches (eyeballing it) or about 50mm in between the GPU and the fan.  I'd take a picture of it...if I could position the camera in a way that would actually help.  Actually, the widest part of the X2 is the exact place where it would intersect the side case fan....yippie!


----------



## blade33 (Feb 13, 2007)

you should have a look at Thermalright HR-03 uses 4 heat pipes and just add 92mm fan on it.


----------



## x800professor (Feb 13, 2007)

blade33 said:


> you should have a look at Thermalright HR-03 uses 4 heat pipes and just add 92mm fan on it.



Where the heck is that thing?  I can't seem to find it anywhere for sale.  Newegg doesn't have it and neither does zipzoomfly.com.  Tigerdirect...nope.  Mwave?  Nope.


----------



## x800professor (Feb 13, 2007)

I stuck the thing in dustbuster mode and overclocked it just to see what it could do.  I can't do anything to the ram in ATItool, so I left that alone (haven't tried rivatuner for that yet).







That's at 688.5 core, 900 memory.  It never cracked 60c in dustbuster mode.  Of course...it sounds like a dustbuster which is really annoying.  This is probably not even close to it's full overclock.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 13, 2007)

=D, nice results. 

Ashen all because I am fourteen you don't have to act like a jerk to me, seriously, you are being rather immature for your age. Whats with your age "Superiority complex" that you have? It just proves how short-sighted you are.
Ashen, you live in the USA, learn how to type english without any speeeeling mistakes.

The thermalright HR-03 MAY fit, but with such a beast of a CPU cooler, I have doubts. If you can find it, try getting it. AcceleroX2 shines with a good amount of heat removal around the GPU. For the VF900 it means almost nothing.


----------



## x800professor (Feb 13, 2007)

There should be plenty of room.


----------



## x800professor (Feb 13, 2007)

Missed a motherboard screw there...whoops.  Have enough in though.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 13, 2007)

Yeah you probably do =D. But... ACCELEROX2 all teh_way.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 13, 2007)

How much is the northbridge fan protruding over the motherboard though? It looks like a tight fit.


----------



## x800professor (Feb 13, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> How much is the northbridge fan protruding over the motherboard though? It looks like a tight fit.



It wouldn't fit in the upwards position because of that nb fan.  Upwards should be the better position too.  Back to the x2 vs vf900cu again.  The vf900 is winning in the poll.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 13, 2007)

But half the people just know Zalman and don't know much about AC. 

AcceleroX2 will cool the memory better than the VF900 CU.


----------



## lufrey (Feb 13, 2007)

x800professor said:


> There should be plenty of room.



Hmm, I don't think you have enough room to put the X2 in there.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 13, 2007)

lufrey said:


> Hmm, I don't think you have enough room to put the X2 in there.



Um yeah.... wtf? The X2 isnt vertical. We WERE mentioning about the Thermalright HR-03.

He did the measurements and it will fit, barely breezing the 25cm fan.


----------



## lufrey (Feb 13, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Um yeah.... wtf? The X2 isnt vertical. We WERE mentioning about the Thermalright HR-03.
> 
> He did the measurements and it will fit, barely breezing the 25cm fan.



Just my observation mate, relax. I've never held an X2, but the pics of it look rather large to me. If it fits, it will be tight.


----------



## x800professor (Feb 13, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Um yeah.... wtf? The X2 isnt vertical. We WERE mentioning about the Thermalright HR-03.
> 
> He did the measurements and it will fit, barely breezing the 25cm fan.



Actually I haven't done any real measurements yet.  It's about 4.7 inches wide at its widest part.  I'm going to have to get a tape measure down there (which I don't have one in the apartment right now) and figure out exactly how much room I have.  The bottom of the fan just barely intersects the card.  However, my motherboard (EVGA 680i) has 3 PCI-E x16 (physically) and 2 PCI-E x16 (electronically) slots, so I could just move it down to the second full x16 slots, which is below the fan.


----------



## Completely Bonkers (Feb 13, 2007)

Look at the picture of the opened up Accelero X2.  Work out how the air is being forced (flows) from the fan unit:





>> The direction of those cooling fins is horribly suboptimal. A huge turnulence is being created inside the plastic case... and the air "flow direction" has to literally go round a corner to get into one of the fin channels and out.

>> The design is suboptimal... it will make more noise and cool less that a SIMILAR DESIGN with fins in a better direction.  Just take a look at the STOCK X1950XT to look a more optimised airflow.

>> I would not be surprised to see the Zalman cooling better due to the unrestricted airflow... and fin direction optimised for flow of air.

>> Accelero X3 needs to fix this design flaw.  In the meantime I suggest anyone with an X2 opens it up and manually adjusts the direction of the internal cooling fins to improve its performance


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## Wile E (Feb 14, 2007)

Completely Bonkers said:


> Look at the picture of the opened up Accelero X2.  Work out how the air is being forced (flows) from the fan unit:
> 
> >> The direction of those cooling fins is horribly suboptimal. A huge turnulence is being created inside the plastic case... and the air "flow direction" has to literally go round a corner to get into one of the fin channels and out.
> 
> ...


Eh, mine works just fine, and is almost completely silent. Design flaws or not, it just works. It could work better perhaps, but at $20, I'm not going to complain. The money I saved going with the X2 allowed me to buy a couple more case fans, which provided better OVERALL system cooling.


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## tkpenalty (Feb 14, 2007)

Completely Bonkers sometimes makes the most weird posts. Doesn't matter if its pointing towards the Motherboard, its cheap and efficient and on par with the ultra-expensive VF900-CU. 

How many times have you used the word "suboptimal"? You think using those words will be persuasive right? 

The Accelero was designed like that for a reason, to remove heat from the GPU, unlike the VF900 that blows the air onto the PCB. In the short term, its okay... BUT in the long term faliure is bound to be happen sooner. 

The stock X1950XT cooler's design is _suboptimal_ it blows in air, probably exausted or acculmulated hot air. 

You must be on pot or something if you think the X1950XT's cooler is better. That cooling design is so inneficient

The Accelero's cooler's fins aren't obstructive! If you don't know how its made/looks like, then don't make up FUD. I feel a gust of warm air from the fins! That fan is designed to blow... SIDEWAYS. Its desinged like that to accomodate the zero-friction fan, the fan is on a silicone mount which eliminates any vibration (thats if the fan will actually produce any). Reports of people destroying their graphics cards through installation of this are just some dumbfucks who don't read the instruction manual.


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## AshenSugar (Feb 14, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Completely Bonkers sometimes makes the most weird posts. Doesn't matter if its pointing towards the Motherboard, its cheap and efficient and on par with the ultra-expensive VF900-CU.
> 
> How many times have you used the word "suboptimal"? You think using those words will be persuasive right?
> 
> ...



that goes for you as well, your ax2 spreds heat from ram chip to ram chip as well as from gpu core to ram/ram to core due to design, the vf900 cools the whole card with that air blowing on the pcb, i havent ever felt more then barly warm air come off my card even at 700/1700(850)  the ram sinks where  barly warm as well, the air blowing over the card also cools other componants that dont get cooled by coolers like the x2, some of them get a bit warm normaly, nothing insain but they do still get warm.

and ultra expencive please, u want ultra expencive.....

check that thermaltake water cooler, cant remmber what its called but it was around 80bucks last time i looked(that was on sale with rabates!!!) 

the vf900cu is 36bucks(aprox) i got mine for 28(sale) and its all copper.

the vf900cu led versions overpriced, thats a given anything with lightes is overpriced 

u want the cheepest decent cooler that will work on these cards
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835124006
its not new, its not "pretty" but its 15bucks and can do the job quite well, and it blows freshair over the cooler+card...... wouldnt be my top choice but cheap for cheap these kind of coolers are the best deal.

want pricy

http://www.xoxide.com/thermaltake-tmg-at2-cooler.html

http://www.xoxide.com/thermaltake-tmg-at1-cooler.html

i did install one of these
http://www.xoxide.com/logisys-dual-heatpipe-vga-cooler.html
on an x1900gt(rev1) that was 16pipe enabled, added some diffrent ramsinks(zalman aluminum ones) and the card was running at a max temp of 67c

i acctualy kinda like those tt coolers, but meh, i would probbly just get heatpipe cooler and throw on a good flow fan if i was looking for cheap...or in my other case where i got an 80mm fan blowing dirrectly at the videocard  (thats why my x800xt pe has a first gen zalman heatpipe on it


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## tkpenalty (Feb 14, 2007)

Um... wtf? I don't get what you are trying to say. X2 does cool VRMs if you haven't noticed, with a side blow-off vent before the heatpipe-contrapment. The AcceleroX2's aluminium/copper base asorbs heat really quickly through the heatpipes, thats why you find the AcceleroX2 users having better memory overclocks.


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## AshenSugar (Feb 14, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> =D, nice results.
> 
> Ashen all because I am fourteen you don't have to act like a jerk to me, seriously, you are being rather immature for your age. Whats with your age "Superiority complex" that you have? It just proves how short-sighted you are.
> Ashen, you live in the USA, learn how to type english without any speeeeling mistakes.
> ...



just bothered to read this,  and a note for you, your acting like a zelot fanboi, you havent used a vf900 but ur all down on it calling it shit and such, every time somebody posts reccomending it you post calling it shit, how mature is that?


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## tkpenalty (Feb 14, 2007)

Hey dude no personal insults okay? Mr IAMSUPERIORBECAUSEIAMOLDER.

VF900 is good but Accelero in the long term is better, price and noise output.


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## AshenSugar (Feb 14, 2007)

the vrm's are cooled by any cooler that blows air over the card, the x2's design dosnt lend to it efficently cooling the vrms since it blows AWAY FROM THEM as bonkers tryed to say, the design is far from optimal for airflow.

it has to flow around a corner to get to the VRM's and the back side of the heatsink.

im not saying it dosnt work well,but i have installed them, and they are far bulkyer then the vf900, and if properly installed they dont cool any better, but the x2 blows all the heat removed from the card(gpu/mem) down onto ur mobo, and in the case of most current boards the chipset placement means the heat is gonna be shared far more dirrectly with the chipset then it would with the vf900, its just a fact of the new design ac tryed with the x1/x2 coolers, their coolers of the past where better designs that moved the heat dirrectly out of the case(ice q3 is the next evolution of that)

if i want i can find posts of people saying how much the x2 sucks, just like you tryed to do with the vf900, infact i will just for you since that seems to be what you need to see.......

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33850455&page=2



			
				krolg said:
			
		

> The instalation of Accelero X2 on a X1900XT card significantly raises my chipset temperature (DFI Lanparty NF4 Ultra-D, but it will affect any motherboards with similar northbridge placement). The difference compared to stock cooling is about +10C, so the norbridge fan actually spins up to 100% to keep northbridge under 60C.




thats about right, nice chipset temp boost there, corse that dosnt matter to you 




			
				rickdeckard said:
			
		

> Yep yep, had that all setup in ATI Tool. The X2 just didn't cool worth a crap under a load like Oblivion. It was fine in non-3D loads, better than the stock cooler in fact.
> 
> So I did the little ghetto mod to the cooler, here's the space I cleared out of the HSF and fan housings








oh and another review showing the vf900 outdoing the x2.

http://www.vadim.co.uk/articles/Battle_of_the_High_End_VGA_Coolers







> This week we have taken two very highly rated air cooling systems for graphics and put them to the test up against a stock cooling unit. The graphics card in questing being the mighty Sapphire ATI X1900XT 512. The coolers that were put to the test along with the stock cooling unit were the Arctic Cooling Accelero X2 and the Zalman VF900-CU.
> 
> The first device was the stock cooler that comes with the card. The first impressions of this cooling unit is that it may just have the edge over specialised air coolers due partly to its reasonable sized heat sink and an equally reasonable sized fan. So the big question is would the cooling unit prove to be sufficient in keeping this beast of a graphics card cool under a high load? ........................NO!
> So what exactly are the reasons for such poor performance? Quite clearly the cooling unit is lacking the capacity to absorb enough heat to allow for effective heat dissipation. The cooling fan does not seem to have the ability to blow enough air through the heat sink which is a major draw back. However the fan is not as bad as the results will have you believe as a high amount of hot air blows out through the grill on the card. Initially when the system powers up the cooling fan starts spinning at a fast rate then slows down to almost being un-noticeable, which may be one of the factors in its high temperatures. However not all can be blamed on the heat sink and fan alone. The thick plastic cover seems to work against the fan and heat sink by helping to retain the heat generated by the card.
> ...



take a look at the full review for pix of each cooler, they didnt say it sucks but they did say its not really much better then the stock cooler.


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## AshenSugar (Feb 14, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Hey dude no personal insults okay? Mr IAMSUPERIORBECAUSEIAMOLDER.
> 
> VF900 is good but Accelero in the long term is better, price and noise output.



as stated above, thats you OPPENION, you state it as fact, when clearly its not, you THINK/BELIVE its better, just because of that you post over and over  telling anybody who dissagrees they are wrong and treating them like they are stupid for not seeing how wrong they are, i didnt personaly insult you, i just stated my oppenion about how YOU are acting, i know i can be a bit abracive, guess what, thats my right, its also my right to disspute your FUD, you know like the FUD you posted about the vf900 being Heavyer then the x2 when it is acctuly what  75g lighter?(or was it more?)

as i said in a preivous post, u and i should just stop posting on this topic, let him make up his own mind between the x2 that heats up ur board/chipset and weighs more, or the vf900 that is lighter and dosnt have a notable impact on chipset/board temps.

now lets just agree to dissagree and stop with the link war of whos right, he will choose what he chooses and what looks best to him, we have bouth stated our cases, over and over, as have others, now its time to let him deside.


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## Wile E (Feb 14, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> .......
> 
> http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33850455&page=2
> 
> ...


I'm gonna chime in here again, just because they saw 10*C jump in chipset temps, doesn't mean everyone will. Mine are only up 2-3* on average, sometime 5* at peak. If those kind of temps are gonna cause problems, then you needed better case flow or chipset cooling to begin with. The Zalman also causes more heat to be in your case, so this is a moot point. Both blow in the case, both raise temps, period. I'm not saying either of them are bad coolers, but my money was better spent on the X2 with the leftover going to case fans.


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## AshenSugar (Feb 14, 2007)

with myzalman the heat dosnt get to my chipset(right at the back of the pci-e slot) because the case fans blow the heat away from the card and out the open card slots, with the side on i can acctuly even get more cooling and drop the mobo and video temps a bit due to the way the 80mm fan on the side of the case blows the air.

really i would have liked a silencer style cooler insted of vf900 or x2(x2 was acctualy made with BTX formfactor in mind, due to everything being reverced the heat would go up and be blown out the back of the case by the crossflow)   

and if u get 10c extra on ur chipset and it causes problems, well i think thats a bad thing, most boards today seem to be comming with sub optimal chipset cooling, like asus and their crappy passive heatpipes(think gigabyte and abit do that crap to now days) and my buddys msi board has a passive cooler, sure it would be good to replace that b4 installing a board, but who wants to have to pull a mobo and swap a chipset cooler? i have and its a pain in most cases.

and yes many people would see less then 10c, but some would see more then 10c temp boost due to chipset cooling, i can guarntee if i was using stock cooling on this chipset that would push the board to the point where it was unstable, its not a cheap board, 147$ board on newegg, 157 localy, i agree, that having good case airflow is important, but so is not dirrecting a heatblower at heat sencitive parts, why not just stick a box heater next to ur pc


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## Wile E (Feb 14, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> with myzalman the heat dosnt get to my chipset(right at the back of the pci-e slot) because the case fans blow the heat away from the card and out the open card slots, with the side on i can acctuly even get more cooling and drop the mobo and video temps a bit due to the way the 80mm fan on the side of the case blows the air.
> 
> really i would have liked a silencer style cooler insted of vf900 or x2(x2 was acctualy made with BTX formfactor in mind, due to everything being reverced the heat would go up and be blown out the back of the case by the crossflow)
> 
> ...


Well, your explanation may have nabbed the difference in my setup versus others, I'm reverse ATX. I didn't even consider that. But that also proves that the X2's performance varies wildly depending on your personal configuration. With his 25cm side fan, I really don't think chipset heat will be an issue for him.


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## Completely Bonkers (Feb 14, 2007)

> How many times have you used the word "suboptimal"?


I used the word twice. Sorry to see you have had a difficulty counting into those dizzy digits.  Most people on this forum are good at maths. But I'm happy to help 

I not sure if you understand the word suboptimal, or don't have a dictionary, or have a dictionary and can't find the word in it. But suboptimal means that the design is not achieving the most desirable possible effect. And this is exactly the issue with the Accelero. 

I did not say it doesnt work.. or that it is rubbish... or that I wouldn't recommend it.  But there are some very obvious improvements. And I stated them. And most people would be able to understand them.

I know fluid dynamics is beyond the school physics course you are studying at school.. but I would advise you not to so actively voice your lack of knowledge or otherwise people will down-rate their impression of what you have got to contribute on this forum.  If you find time to read a book on fluid dynamics at the weekend then you'll learn a lot...  And you can come back and share some of the insights with us on this forum. We'll gladly listen to informed, scientific, knowledge.


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## niko084 (Feb 14, 2007)

How bad is the stock cooling on the card?
I'm looking at buying a Sapphire x1950xt.
I have good air flow, will even be better with the new case.
And I wont be overclocking it at all. Not worried about noise..

But is it running hot? I don't like my video getting much over 70-75c..


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## AshenSugar (Feb 15, 2007)

stock at minimum needs taken off and the core contact lapped, it in most cases is a VERY ruff contact point(ffar from smooth) 

if ur not gonna overclock then u shouldnt "need" 3rd party cooling, just lap the core contact and use some asc(ceramiq) and u should be set, u may want to use atitool or the like to turn the fan up a bit, at full tilt its a bit loud tho, but i can cool as well as any current 3rd party air cooler if you use it at full fan, again it gets VERY loud at 100%


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## tkpenalty (Feb 15, 2007)

^Hey dude learn how to type properly and not like some drunken hick person.

Sorta biast but true reason why they didn't use the DHES:



> DHES (Direct Heat Exhaust System)
> A DHES doesn't make sense for a quiet high performance PC . The 1 C plus in ambient temperature doesn't matter since it is easy to cool nowadays CPUs quietly - but it is very difficult to cool a high performance GPU virtually silent. Therefore air should be drawn directly from outside to the VGA cooler, basically exactly the opposite of a DHES. The Accelero outperforms all competitors and offers a 13 C better cooling performance o*n a X1900XT board compared to the stock cooler (dynamic fan speed) at a far lower noise level. This is possible because we rejected the DHES.
> Advantage of DHES: Reduces the computer ambient temperature by about 1 C.
> Disadvantage of DHES: A lot more pressure is used. Therefore the fan generates a far higher noise level at the same performance.
> The exhaust air of about 35-40 C is no problem for the mainboard. All components are specified for at least 85 C or more and therefore if these components run hot, the air stream works as a cooling. Compare to the P4 cooling, where the exhaust air is also used as a cooling. The warm air arise automatically in the PC case and will be blown out by the case fans.



Have you ever wondered why 5000RPM fans sometimes sound like F1s?

Okay, first off Ashen, you are so short sighted, that review (link please?) They probably were  using a motherboard which had irregular NB Placements. With the EVGA 680i I don't see an issue with heat. 

AcceleroX2 does better in a better case (which X800Professor has).


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## Pinchy (Feb 15, 2007)

notice how they tell us how 'crappy' DHES is NOW once they have scrapped it 

2 years ago it was the best thing since slice bread


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## tkpenalty (Feb 15, 2007)

Yeah... DHES is sorta noisy, they aren't going its crap but not such a great idea for a "quiet" system. DHES on the X850XT series should be called DNGS "Direct Noise Generator Source" though.


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## AshenSugar (Feb 15, 2007)

now whos being a dick?  calling me a hick makes u a dick:O

and DHES wouldnt be any louder then the x2 is now where they to use the same fan, the noise comes form the type of fan used, there are many ways to move air that dont make alot of noise. 
i did link to the forums where the 10c was posted.

i would say your short sited as well, your x2 is only good for cards of the past, vf900 can work on pretty much any card u get, even next gen cards due to its design.

and FYI there is not standred chipset placment, most boards of today put the chipset dirrectly behind the primary pci-e(videocard) slot, this means the heat from you x2 is blowing dirrectly at the chipset, your board may not have an issue, but your boards not the only one out there, your personaly exp isnt the end all and be all of the computing world, since you cant take my sujestion that we stop this post war over whos right and whos wrong i guess i gotta keep posting to counter your stream of  bias fud on this subject, had you used/owned/tested a vf900cu dirrectly vs a x2 your self that would be diffrent, but you havent you just keep posting "its better because its got heat pipes" or "its better because itts cheaper" or "its better because it cools the ram to" or "its better because it cools the vrm's"  or "its better because its silent" when at any distance over 3inches from the fan the vf900 is slient as well. fact is the coolers are bouth better then the stock.

 i have installed bouth, the x2 is bulkyer+heavyer and in my exp isnt any better then the vf900 and blows all the heat removed from the card down at the board/chipset/cards below it.

the vf900 is LIGHT, cools every componant on the chip side of the card, blows the heat it dissapates in all dirrections and dosnt chanil it at the board/chipset/lower cards, dosnt cause memory chips to share heat with eachother(each has its own sink, included with the kit) cools the WHOLE vrm heatsink not just  a small part of it(x2 blows hot air on a small portion of the vrm sink)  
and if you deside to buy a new card later and sell the one you have or use it as a PPU you can stick the stock cooler back on, and use the vf900 on ur next card, because its not spicificly made for 1 model of card.

as i have stated, the vf900 is silent unless ur ears against it, sames true with the x2 honestly if u run it at full tilt its silent unless ur got ur head next to the fan, eahter way if u got ur case side on u cant hear eather of them full tilt, ur cpu cooler or case fans or even chipset fan (if its a stock chipset fan) will alwase be louder then a 3rd party cooler u add, the stock x19*0 refrance cooler at 100% will alwase be as loud as a hairdryer.


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## tkpenalty (Feb 15, 2007)

...Dude seriously apart from that insult (I take it back)... type properly. Stop making typos 

The X2 is silent regardless what mode you run it on! 
The X2 has this huuuge gap for air channel seperation man. 
The X2 has the design like it is deliberately, its not a case of poor design. 
THE X2 PERFORMS THE SAME AS THE VF900. 
(and its cheaper)


 "calling me a hick makes u a dick"
I sense that will be the next comeback line for most people soon...


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## lufrey (Feb 15, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> ...Dude seriously apart from that insult (I take it back)... type properly. Stop making typos
> 
> The X2 is silent regardless what mode you run it on!
> The X2 has this huuuge gap for air channel seperation man.
> ...



Yes, please all, stop the personal insults. As far as performance goes, unless I am reading the direct comparison reviews from the reputable websites wrong (the ones mentioned on this thread) which I am not, the X2 does not perform the same as VF900. 

All the crap about not cooling the RAM, that's what the RAMsinks are for and the fan blows directly over them, through the heatsink fins which are thin.

The only fact going for the X2, is that it's cheaper.


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## AshenSugar (Feb 15, 2007)

lufrey, hes not gonna stop till people just agree with him that the x2 is the best cooler ever made, you could show 100 ligit reviews and he would say stuff like "thats just a pic do we trust it...no"


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## lufrey (Feb 15, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> lufrey, hes not gonna stop till people just agree with him that the x2 is the best cooler ever made, you could show 100 ligit reviews and he would say stuff like "thats just a pic do we trust it...no"



To me, it's simply black or white, the independant reviews show which performs better, and if most if not all the reviews state the same thing, then there must be some truth to them, am I right?


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## AshenSugar (Feb 15, 2007)

i agree with you, but he wont, hes gotta be right, so we might as well just agree the x2 is the best so he can stop posting fud


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## niko084 (Feb 15, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> stock at minimum needs taken off and the core contact lapped, it in most cases is a VERY ruff contact point(ffar from smooth)
> 
> if ur not gonna overclock then u shouldnt "need" 3rd party cooling, just lap the core contact and use some asc(ceramiq) and u should be set, u may want to use atitool or the like to turn the fan up a bit, at full tilt its a bit loud tho, but i can cool as well as any current 3rd party air cooler if you use it at full fan, again it gets VERY loud at 100%



Ya I crank up the fans anyways. I'm really could case less about noise. In fact the closer my machine sounds to a jet engine the better


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## x800professor (Feb 15, 2007)

Stupid winter storm killed my internet since around the time of my last post.  So it seems the Zalman is still ahead.  It also seems there is a flamewar going on between fanboys of both fans.  Please, neither fan is going to do my laundry, so neither is the greatest thing since sliced bread. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835118001

Newegg is charging $36.99+$4.99 shipping.  

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=373504

Zipzoomfly only seems to have the LED version for $44.99 with free shipping.  Hmm, $41.98 without LED vs $44.99 with it, but slower shipping.  Interesting...


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## tkpenalty (Feb 16, 2007)

Isn't there a place that sells VF900s cheaper?


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## x800professor (Feb 16, 2007)

I'm starting to wonder if there is even a point in getting another fan for this card.  Even with the fan running at 100% and the temps not getting out of the 60's, this thing is only stable up to about 670mhz at stock voltage.  I also can't seem to get anything to overclock the RAM without crashing instantly.  I'm not sure what kind of voltage this thing can take without killing it.  Anyone have any suggestions on this?


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## x800professor (Feb 16, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Isn't there a place that sells VF900s cheaper?



It just came back in stock at zipzoomfly at $39.99.  That's about as cheap as I can find considering the shipping is free.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=373501&prodlist=bizrate


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## tkpenalty (Feb 16, 2007)

How about AcceleroX2?


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## KennyT772 (Feb 16, 2007)

Stock cooler has a solid design with a few faults. the voltage regulators should be tied into the general cooling system, not air drawn over them. then just a quieter fan, it works wonders at 76% it just sounds like a weedwacker. 

VF900 (cooler i chose) large surface area and low noise. easy mounting and generally good cooling. the fan blows air over the ramsinks and the voltage regulator, solving a main problem of the stock cooler. its also much quieter even on full speed. 

X2 quieter fan, and airflow over vregs to a degree. things on the card seem like an afterthought. there is no way possible that there is even airflow over each fin. also it blows heat onto the motherboard, which frequently has voltage hardware associated with the pci-e port. the motherboard was never designed to handle heat in this way while a video card pcb was. a silencer based design would be much better, hence the reason ati and nvidia are now taking that route.


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## tkpenalty (Feb 16, 2007)

KennyT772 said:


> Stock cooler has a solid design with a few faults. the voltage regulators should be tied into the general cooling system, not air drawn over them. then just a quieter fan, it works wonders at 76% it just sounds like a weedwacker.
> 
> VF900 (cooler i chose) large surface area and low noise. easy mounting and generally good cooling. the fan blows air over the ramsinks and the voltage regulator, solving a main problem of the stock cooler. its also much quieter even on full speed.
> 
> X2 quieter fan, and airflow over vregs to a degree. things on the card seem like an afterthought. there is no way possible that there is even airflow over each fin. also it blows heat onto the motherboard, which frequently has voltage hardware associated with the pci-e port. the motherboard was never designed to handle heat in this way while a video card pcb was. a silencer based design would be much better, hence the reason ati and nvidia are now taking that route.



What do you mean there is no air over the fins?


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## KennyT772 (Feb 16, 2007)

if you re-read it you would see i said even airflow 

on the x2 there is a strait fin layout like the x850/x1800 coolers except the fan placement makes most of the airflow go over the fins in line with the fan. the fins at the very end (towards the dvi connectors) will not get very good airflow compared to the middle of the card.


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## AshenSugar (Feb 16, 2007)

x800prof, its all  up to you, i treyed to stop theback and forth over and over, i have installd bouth coolers, the x2 isnt bad for videocard cooling but its BULKY and heats ur board up.

ask KET for help with overclocking.

check froogle.com for more prices(better prices) also try pricewatch, like i said i payed 28bucks for my vf900 normal version(no led) and its steller as long as its PROPERLY INSTALLED!!!.

the x2 was orignaly desiged to support BTX case design, if you know about bts its a reverced atx like layout made for high case airflow(dell uses/use it) there are some nice things about it, but there are more dissadvanteges(no cases to choose from, let alone boards)  

the x2 was acctualy designed to blow the heat UP so the 120mm fan in the BTX case would blow it out the of the case keeping it from accumulating on the board , but btx was a FLOP as even intel has grudgingly admited, and isnt needed for newer chips(they dont get as hot as pressy's did)


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## Wile E (Feb 16, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> x800prof, its all  up to you, i treyed to stop theback and forth over and over, i have installd bouth coolers, the x2 isnt bad for videocard cooling but its BULKY and heats ur board up


Again, the Zalman also raises the temps. All the pro Zalman people seem to be leaving out the fact that the Zalman doesn't evacuate the heat from the case either. 

I'm not saying the X2 is better than the Zalman, or vice-versa. If I already had all the case fans I wanted at the time, I would've bought the Zalman myself, but as it stood, buying the X2 allowed me to get some more case fans, so that's the route I choose. I have no regrets with my decision. Both are good coolers.


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## AshenSugar (Feb 16, 2007)

raises AMBIANT case temps yes, thats common sence, but dosnt blow the heat dirrectly at any part of the system, the x2 blows the heat dirrectly at the motherboard.

im sure x800prof and anybody whos seen the pix of the zalman can gell it blows the heat off the card into the air inside the case, the ONLY coolers that exaust the heat out of the case are the iceq3 cooler and the stock ati coolers


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 16, 2007)

x800professor said:


> It just came back in stock at zipzoomfly at $39.99.  That's about as cheap as I can find considering the shipping is free.
> 
> http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=373501&prodlist=bizrate



u could also check the reviews of that thermaltake cooler i linked at xoxide.com it exausts heat out the back fo the case, duno how well it works tho, i dont have one, but would like to try one of them sometime, fan looks sick.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 16, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> raises AMBIANT case temps yes, thats common sence, but dosnt blow the heat dirrectly at any part of the system, the x2 blows the heat dirrectly at the motherboard.
> 
> im sure x800prof and anybody whos seen the pix of the zalman can gell it blows the heat off the card into the air inside the case, the ONLY coolers that exaust the heat out of the case are the iceq3 cooler and the stock ati coolers



What DOES 35*C of exaust do to the motherboard; absolutely nothing. If you say that 35*C will destroy a motherboard, that means the VF900 CU will damage the GPU, makes sense doesn't it-if we put it in your context. 

Btw, 

AMBIANT is spelt as Ambient
Sence is spelt as Sense
Dirrectly is spelt as Dirrectly
Dosnt is splelt as Doesn't.

Since you made more than several spelling mistakes... PLEASE!!! CONSIDER WHAT WE HAVE TO READ! I LOSE IQ READING HORRIBLE SPELLING


----------



## Wile E (Feb 16, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> What DOES 35*C of exaust do to the motherboard; absolutely nothing. If you say that 35*C will destroy a motherboard, that means the VF900 CU will damage the GPU, makes sense doesn't it-if we put it in your context.
> 
> Btw,
> 
> ...


Umm, not to be a jerk tk, but it's spelled, not spelt.


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 16, 2007)

good, u can follow me around and quote me and correct my spelling, i love how when ppl dont agree with you they start in on you're spelling.

and the videocard pcb is DESIGNED to take the heat, the mobo and caps/chipset arent designed to have you blow heat at them, as noted above the videocards componants are made to deal with higher temps then mobo componants.

why cant a cpu run at 90-95c stable but an x1900 chip can?  because they are designed to run at those temps stable without burning out.

my board has caps and chipset right next to the pci-e slot, i wouldnt want to heat the caps and chipset up by blowing 35-40c air on them, i really hate replacing mobos its a pain in the arse!!!


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 16, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Umm, not to be a jerk tk, but it's spelled, not spelt.



rofl........PWNT!!!!

thanks man, i never harrass people about online spelling unless it makes it IMPOSSABLE to understand what they are saying, also there are so many dirrent ways to spell the same words in english, uk spelling and US spelling for example

honor vs honour
color vs colour

are uust 2 examples, IMHO if you can understand what the person means, even with a little trouble then it should all be good.


----------



## Wile E (Feb 16, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> good, u can follow me around and quote me and correct my spelling, i love how when ppl dont agree with you they start in on you're spelling.
> 
> and the videocard pcb is DESIGNED to take the heat, the mobo and caps/chipset arent designed to have you blow heat at them, as noted above the videocards componants are made to deal with higher temps then mobo componants.
> 
> ...


I hate to keep pushing this issue, but your argument is still without merit when you consider proper case flow, Ashen. And while the chips and caps on the mobo may not be designed to take large amounts of heat, the X2's heat output isn't nearly enough to effect the mobo itself. You're greatly over exaggerating the effects of the X2. Do you know what it took to eliminate the heat problems caused by the X2 for me? 1 120mm fan in my side panel. And if memory serves me, doesn't the original poster of this thread have a 25cm side fan? If that's the case, the heat caused by either of them is a complete non-issue. And your argument of the Zalman creating ambient heat is also not a good one, as ambient heat still causes component temps to rise.


----------



## Wile E (Feb 16, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> rofl........PWNT!!!!
> 
> thanks man, i never harrass people about online spelling unless it makes it IMPOSSABLE to understand what they are saying, also there are so many dirrent ways to spell the same words in english, uk spelling and US spelling for example
> 
> ...


My spelling isn't all that great either. Thank you for automatic spell checking Firefox 2. lol


----------



## x800professor (Feb 16, 2007)

Wile E said:


> I hate to keep pushing this issue, but your argument is still without merit when you consider proper case flow, Ashen. And while the chips and caps on the mobo may not be designed to take large amounts of heat, the X2's heat output isn't nearly enough to effect the mobo itself. You're greatly over exaggerating the effects of the X2. Do you know what it took to eliminate the heat problems caused by the X2 for me? 1 120mm fan in my side panel. And if memory serves me, doesn't the original poster of this thread have a 25cm side fan? If that's the case, the heat caused by either of them is a complete non-issue. And your argument of the Zalman creating ambient heat is also not a good one, as ambient heat still causes component temps to rise.



That fan is an intake fan.  The closest fan sucking air out is a 120mm a few inches above the GPU.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 16, 2007)

Adding a $8.50AUD Blower fan drastically decreased temperatures =D.


----------



## Wile E (Feb 17, 2007)

x800professor said:


> That fan is an intake fan.  The closest fan sucking air out is a 120mm a few inches above the GPU.


The 120mm I spoke of in my setup it an intake fan as well. The closest exhaust fan from mine is also a few inches above the gpu.


----------



## Nitro-Max (Feb 17, 2007)

read here translate page using google clearly shows the zalman vf 900 is the best cooler and most quiet at full rpm. i did have a better comparison but the links broke sry

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.presence-pc.com/actualite/zalman-arctic-cooling-19227/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=2&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dzalman%2Bvf-%2B900%2Bvs%2BAccelero%2BX2%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DGGLD,GGLD:2006-41,GGLD:en


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## tkpenalty (Feb 17, 2007)

Wah Diu....

Apparently the blower fan broke... WTF?! Its burnt out. Bah.. screw generic fans. 

Nitro-Max, there are no benchmarks, thats FUD. AcceleroX2 and VF900 CU are on par with each other so wth are you on about?


----------



## lufrey (Feb 17, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Nitro-Max, there are no benchmarks, thats FUD. AcceleroX2 and VF900 CU are on par with each other so wth are you on about?



Ok, so you want to see benchmarks?
http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&number=1&artpage=2143&articID=497

VF900-CU with the fan set to minimum outperforms the AccelleroX2 set to maximum. Under load, the VF900 is 10C lower, so I'll let you draw your own conclusion. 

No sorry, they are not on par, not even with the X2 fan set to max, and the VF900 set to min. The only thing going for the X2 is that it is cheaper, and that is that.


----------



## Completely Bonkers (Feb 17, 2007)

Good link. Nice review. Let's hope that puts an end to the X2 zealots. While the X2 is good, and still remains a recommended upgrade toa stock cooler, there are better solutions.

Who ever keeps complaining when I say the X2 is suboptimal... please stand in the corner facing the wall.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 17, 2007)

STOP USING THE WORD SUBOPTIMAL! 

Apart from that, reviews are a mixed bag for the AcceleroX2 as its sorta tricky to install sometimes.


----------



## Nitro-Max (Feb 17, 2007)

thanks for that post lufrey its so hard trying to get people to belive the zalman is better than the x2 {they probably pissed cos they bought one} i did have a better link to show but it was broken at the time of post maybe people will take note now  i dont like the X2 its too much like the standard design and i knew the cooling would be better but noise level is still a major factor on the X2 at 100%


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 18, 2007)

codswallop, sif man sif. I can't hear anything at 100% fan speed.


----------



## Wile E (Feb 18, 2007)

Nitro-Max said:


> thanks for that post lufrey its so hard trying to get people to belive the zalman is better than the x2 {they probably pissed cos they bought one} i did have a better link to show but it was broken at the time of post maybe people will take note now  i dont like the X2 its too much like the standard design and i knew the cooling would be better but noise level is still a major factor on the X2 at 100%


BS, the X2 is inaudible at 100% if you have any case fans at all.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 18, 2007)

Yep, some fags having the "flock of sheep" intuition. Seriously, you guys lack self confidence if you are like that.


----------



## lufrey (Feb 18, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Yep, some fags having the "flock of sheep" intuition. Seriously, you guys lack self confidence if you are like that.



What the hell are you on about?


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 18, 2007)

When one says something that is wrong, and they have a friend  (in this case, brand; i.e. Zalman, more people know about Zalman than Arctic Cooling) in the area, usually the friend  even if they don't know, they will try to back them up; its basically human nature.


----------



## SpoonMuffin (Feb 18, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> STOP USING THE WORD SUBOPTIMAL!
> 
> Apart from that, reviews are a mixed bag for the AcceleroX2 as its sorta tricky to install sometimes.



excuses excuses, and the design is suboptimal, thats just a fact your going to have to live with, read up on fluid dynamics(air is considered a fluid u know) and u will get what he means.



Wile E said:


> BS, the X2 is inaudible at 100% if you have any case fans at all.


the vf900 is inaudible at 100 if you have casefans as well, its louder then my 120mm "silent panaflow" fan even.



tkpenalty said:


> When one says something that is wrong, and they have a friend  (in this case, brand; i.e. Zalman, more people know about Zalman than Arctic Cooling) in the area, usually the friend  even if they don't know, they will try to back them up; its basically human nature.


stop with the "nobody knows about arctic cooling" bullshit, honestly, anybody whos been an enthusist ati user since the 9800 days knows about the silencers and AC and their products, i have a silencer rev1, as well as 2 and 3, guess what, they are OK but not steller, the zalman heatpipe is A WHOLE LOT BETTER on my x800 and 9800 cards and with the 92mm panaflow fan on it, its just as silent but cools the cards alot better, it however is more work to install.


----------



## Wile E (Feb 18, 2007)

SpoonMuffin said:


> the vf900 is inaudible at 100 if you have casefans as well, its louder then my 120mm "silent panaflow" fan even.


I wasn't debating that at all, someone just posted that sound is an issue with the X2 @ 100% Heck, reread some of my posts, I don't even debate that the Zalman performs better(because I know it does). I'm just pointing out mistakes/misconceptions people are making about the X2. I don't do the same for the Zalman because I have no personal experience with one, therefore I can't justify any claims I would make. My overall take is this: If you want silence, and you are spending around $40, and you already have great case flow, the Zalman is an excellent choice. But, if you're spending $40, and your case flow is lacking, I feel the X2 and some additional case fans may be the better route.


----------



## SpoonMuffin (Feb 18, 2007)

some vf900 and x2(and any other cooler for that matter) are noisy, this is normaly due to bad fan barings or balance, heard a silencer rev2 that made a nasty grinding noise!!!! annoing!!!


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 18, 2007)

yep, you can ask for an RMA if that occurs.


----------



## x800professor (Feb 18, 2007)

I'm just going to buy an Eskimo and make him sit on it all day...


----------



## Completely Bonkers (Feb 18, 2007)

An eskimo would have to be c--------y b-----s to come round to your house and sit on it all day. For that matter, so would any chick.


----------



## x800professor (Feb 19, 2007)

Completely Bonkers said:


> An eskimo would have to be c--------y b-----s to come round to your house and sit on it all day. For that matter, so would any chick.



Ok, fine, I'll just take the computer outside.  It's 13 degrees outside right now, so roughly -10C.  That should keep the card nice and cool...until in snows or rains or someone steals it or the noid comes back to life and smashes it.  All possibilities are simpler than figuring out which fan to buy.


----------



## x800professor (Feb 21, 2007)

Oh great, now the card is giving me problems before I even ordered a fan.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=25854


----------



## lemonadesoda (Feb 21, 2007)

See other thread about HDD damage. Keep your HDD >20C, or suffer increased failure rates, esp. varing temps.


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## x800professor (Feb 21, 2007)

lemonadesoda said:


> See other thread about HDD damage. Keep your HDD >20C, or suffer increased failure rates, esp. varing temps.



I was joking about leaving the computer outside.

I'm getting very close to ordering the Zalman by the way.


----------



## x800professor (Feb 21, 2007)

The zalman is ordered.  What do you guys think of one of these underneath of the video card?


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## AshenSugar (Feb 21, 2007)

the short ones would be good, the 2 slot versions are better tho(but take up more space) 

make sure you get a SHORT ONE they also sell ones that are longer and would be over the fan of th card(bad)

you may also want to look at the vantech dual fan things that just blow on the card, /slot abovve them, my buddy added one to his system and with the slot blockers removed from teh videocard u could feel the heat moving out of the case


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## TUngsten (Feb 21, 2007)

unnecessary assuming you have decent airflow through the case, and it might interfere w/ the zalman


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## x800professor (Feb 22, 2007)

TUngsten said:


> unnecessary assuming you have decent airflow through the case, and it might interfere w/ the zalman



The heat should rise and be sucked out by the 120mm next to the big typhoon and above the GPU.  That giant intake fan on the side should blow cold air in and force the rest of the hot air towards the the two other fans that suck air out.  One is on the back next to the sideways PSU and the other is on the top.  We'll see what the temps are.  Right now my CPU (E6600@3.6GHz) doesn't get out of the 50's no matter what I do.  I don't think it will affect that much, but we'll see.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 22, 2007)

x800professor said:


> The zalman is ordered.  What do you guys think of one of these underneath of the video card?



Wasted money if you ask me. It would be better to get a long one that has adjustable length, with that, you can turn off the VF900CU fan.

For a cooler of that size I would see a point if you purchased the AcceleroX2... but for the VF900 CU with the fan on it will compromise performance, even if it reduces ambient temps.


----------



## lufrey (Feb 22, 2007)

x800professor said:


> The zalman is ordered.  What do you guys think of one of these underneath of the video card?



Looks good to me mate. I've got that setup right now in one of my HTPC setups, and it works very well. You may have to leave 1 or 2 additional slots space between the video card and the extractor.


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## AshenSugar (Feb 22, 2007)

again tkp, you need to understand fulid dymanics and cooling better then you do, even without the fan that wouldnt be a good idea, it SUCKS air out of the case, this means there would be very little airflow over ram and vrms.

i know your just dead set that the x2 is the only cooler to choose, but you can let it go now,hes choosen to order the vf900

and like i said, he could get a dual fan blower that would push more air over the WHOLE CARD as well as pushing it all UP to the top of the case where the exausts are, that would be my move.

also those little vent fans are good if your system has a open slot ABOVE the videocard, can be used to get air flowing thru the dead zone between videocard and cpu cooler 

for excelent slection of fans and cooling devices try www.xoxide.com, every fan in my case is from them (well other then the one in the psu and the vf900)


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## x800professor (Feb 23, 2007)

That's the airflow in my case.  The rear 120mm LED fan is only 1300RPM.  I might upgrade that eventually.  It probably will need to suck more air once I put the zalman in.


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## AshenSugar (Feb 23, 2007)

should be fine m8, the airflow looks good for the vf900, just remove the pci slot covers to allow hot air to excape thru them


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## lufrey (Feb 23, 2007)

x800professor said:


> That's the airflow in my case.  The rear 120mm LED fan is only 1300RPM.  I might upgrade that eventually.  It probably will need to suck more air once I put the zalman in.



Your airflow looks good to me. You may not need to do anything to your system, except maybe the 120mm fan upgrade. The Noctua fans look good and are extremely efficient, and the best thing is they are almost silent.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 23, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> again tkp, you need to understand fulid dymanics and cooling better then you do, even without the fan that wouldnt be a good idea, it SUCKS air out of the case, this means there would be very little airflow over ram and vrms.
> 
> i know your just dead set that the x2 is the only cooler to choose, but you can let it go now,hes choosen to order the vf900
> 
> ...



Get over it man, freaking hell.... such a hippocrite you are.

The blower SUCKS air out of the system. I know the VF900 CU has been ordered, you don't have to remind me. Seriously, read what I posted. If it was directly adjacent there would be some problems (I don't know CFM of that generic single slot cooler though).

Due to the Design of an AcceleroX2/X1, the blower will benifit more, creating less drag around the GPU fan. Whats with you using "advanced" terms like fluid dynamics? Thats just another way of saying physics.

And finally, a BLOWER FAN does not BLOW AIR into the system, it is called a BLOWER FAN because of its DESIGN, taking air and sending it perpinducular to its intake!!! Any normal fan dubbed a blower is misleading advertising.

X800PROF just removed the panels, thats all you need to do. The blower fan won't help much and might do worse.


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 23, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Get over it man, freaking hell.... such a hippocrite you are.
> 
> The blower SUCKS air out of the system. I know the VF900 CU has been ordered, you don't have to remind me. Seriously, read what I posted. If it was directly adjacent there would be some problems (I don't know CFM of that generic single slot cooler though).
> 
> ...



wow maby you need some links to get you started, and you correct but incorrect as well, fluid dynamics is related to physics but  is far more complex, honestly you need to read up on it, you clearly dont understand how fluids move, air is a fluid/gass as such you assumptions about it being "simple phsyics" like are innaccuret.



> Fluid dynamics is the sub-discipline of fluid mechanics dealing with fluids (liquids and gases) in motion. It has several subdisciplines itself, including aerodynamics (the study of gases in motion) and hydrodynamics (the study of liquids in motion). Fluid dynamics has a wide range of applications, including calculating forces and moments on aircraft, determining the mass flow rate of petroleum through pipelines, predicting weather patterns and reportedly modelling fission weapon detonation. Some of its principles are even used in traffic engineering, where traffic is treated as a continuous fluid.
> 
> Fluid dynamics offers a mathematical structure that underlies these practical disciplines and that embraces empirical and semi-empirical laws, derived from flow measurement, used to solve practical problems. The solution of a fluid dynamics problem typically involves calculation of various properties of the fluid, such as velocity, pressure, density, and temperature, as functions of space and time.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_dynamics

some info to get you  started, its an intresting field, it will help you understand why bonkers said that the x2's design is suboptimal and why i said what i said, read up on the topic, honestly it will help you when cooling systems efficently and trying to avoid noise


----------



## x800professor (Feb 23, 2007)

Still battling...well anyway, if the computer stops crashing (it was stable for weeks and started going nuts yesterday, I had to repair windows, remove some RAM (might be dead, might just not want to POST with 4GB anymore, might be another MB issue), and now the onboard audio doesn't work...so I have no sound), I'll post some results with the Zalman.  It looks like I'm going to have to go get either some jewelry screwdrivers or an eyeglass repair kit to get those tiny screws out.  Anybody know the exact size of the screws on the retention bracket for the GPU fan?


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 23, 2007)

get a nice eletronics rep kit, i have one with filips,flat and torx drivers and 4 pairs of plyers, its a god send, and those damn screws are SMALLLLLLL  and sometimes are stuck in TO DAMN WELL.

the kit i have was around 30bucks years back, it was worth it, first set i had that didnt strip out(drivers dont strip, good metel)   i think craftsman has a nice set as well(lifetime replacment warr  )


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## Wile E (Feb 23, 2007)

x800professor said:


> Still battling...well anyway, if the computer stops crashing (it was stable for weeks and started going nuts yesterday, I had to repair windows, remove some RAM (might be dead, might just not want to POST with 4GB anymore, might be another MB issue), and now the onboard audio doesn't work...so I have no sound), I'll post some results with the Zalman.  It looks like I'm going to have to go get either some jewelry screwdrivers or an eyeglass repair kit to get those tiny screws out.  Anybody know the exact size of the screws on the retention bracket for the GPU fan?


Did you try resetting the cmos for the heck of it? I had a similar issue about 2 weeks back. Clearing the CMOS corrected it for me. I would've said it's the ram, but you said your onboard quit. If CMOS reset doesn't work, dying mobo, maybe?


----------



## x800professor (Feb 23, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Did you try resetting the cmos for the heck of it? I had a similar issue about 2 weeks back. Clearing the CMOS corrected it for me. I would've said it's the ram, but you said your onboard quit. If CMOS reset doesn't work, dying mobo, maybe?



I cleared the CMOS about 15 times.  For some reason I had to install SP2 to get everything to work.  I am going to put the ram back in now and see what's going on.  It was telling me that my CPU was running at 0Mhz.  Plus, it wouldn't turn off speedstep in windows.  My e6600 was running at 1.6GHz constantly.  Well, after updating to the P25 bios and reinstalling windows and fiddling with the BIOS for a while...it seems to be working outside of the RAM, which I'm going to test in a minute.


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 23, 2007)

see why i hate xp? 

i have never had this kind of crap with 2003, EVER, xp however causes no end of headakes for me, some stuff dosnt like sp2, other stuff wont run properly without it.......what a PITA!!!


----------



## x800professor (Feb 23, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> see why i hate xp?
> 
> i have never had this kind of crap with 2003, EVER, xp however causes no end of headakes for me, some stuff dosnt like sp2, other stuff wont run properly without it.......what a PITA!!!



...and vista is no better.  It seems to be more stable, and my computer is easily powerful enough to handle it, but it sucks for games and I HATE how it wants to hold my hand constantly.  I'd probably disable just about every warning it has if I used it.

Anyway, I plugged the ram in and now it works.  This MB is nuts.


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 23, 2007)

vista sucks to, i never said it didnt, its like its made for people who dont understand a damn thing about using a computer(mac users) 

im sticking with 2003 ent for now, maby when server 2008 comes out it will be worth the bother, if not im sure 2003 will last till vienna is ready for market.


----------



## x800professor (Feb 24, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> vista sucks to, i never said it didnt, its like its made for people who dont understand a damn thing about using a computer(mac users)
> 
> im sticking with 2003 ent for now, maby when server 2008 comes out it will be worth the bother, if not im sure 2003 will last till vienna is ready for market.



Wasn't saying that you did, I was just pointing out that microsuck hasn't really fixed anything.  I tried vista beta 2 for about an hour and was prepared to use the disk I burned it on as a frisbee after that hour.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 24, 2007)

AshenSugar, please curb your tounge, we don't want any flaming here, you seriously need counselling if you are like that in real life. You don't have to go "I was not saying that", and then continue on with some slander. 

IF you do hate Microsoft so much, then why are you using their OS?

X800Professor, got the VF900CU yet?


----------



## x800professor (Feb 24, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> AshenSugar, please curb your tounge, we don't want any flaming here, you seriously need counselling if you are like that in real life. You don't have to go "I was not saying that", and then continue on with some slander.
> 
> IF you do hate Microsoft so much, then why are you using their OS?
> 
> X800Professor, got the VF900CU yet?



I'm getting the VF900CU on Monday.  I use windows mainly because I don't feel like messing with compatibility or training my girlfriend to use any other operating system.  I have windows XP to a point where I like it (took some work).  I really didn't like vista when I tried it, and I really hate the performance differences.  Maybe I'll upgrade when I'm using an X3900 or Geforce 9800 (I wonder if they'll call it that...) and DX10 is the norm, but not before then.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 24, 2007)

x800professor said:


> I'm getting the VF900CU on Monday.  I use windows mainly because I don't feel like messing with compatibility or training my girlfriend to use any other operating system.  I have windows XP to a point where I like it (took some work).  I really didn't like vista when I tried it, and I really hate the performance differences.  Maybe I'll upgrade when I'm using an X3900 or Geforce 9800 (I wonder if they'll call it that...) and DX10 is the norm, but not before then.




They will never call it a Geforce 9800  

The best thing for your VF900CU is intake ducting, from the expansion ports. That will improve its cooling a bit.


----------



## x800professor (Feb 24, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> They will never call it a Geforce 9800
> 
> The best thing for your VF900CU is intake ducting, from the expansion ports. That will improve its cooling a bit.



Oh but why not?  Not like ATI's 9800 ever showed up on Nvidia's radar.  I mean the FX series was so unbelievably powerful that ATI's engineers had to burn 9800s to keep warm when everyone refused to buy anything but the amazing FX5800 Ultra.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 24, 2007)

Dude... Nvidia had to turn their GPUs up even more LOL. They had phenomenal clocks for their time around 500 core . ATI had the clock rates in the 400s.

EDIT: That generic thing is decent... this is what I got... 60CFM... theres a hurricane generated by it, it evidently moves more air than my 92mm.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=145&products_id=4424

For the hard drive:
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=145&products_id=4425

FOX-1 Standard model
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=145&products_id=4423


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## AshenSugar (Feb 24, 2007)

i dont use windows xp because it takes so much work to get it to the same point 2003 is out of the box, even with using nlite on xp u still have to do alot of tweaking after install to get xp as lean and mean as 2003 is OOTB.

and i didnt know i was using my toung thought it was my fingers doing the talking....(ok i wont go there.....har har)

as a tech i see ALOT more problems with xp then i even saw with 2k dispite the fact that most of the people i setup with windows back in the day would choose 2k over xp because it was less buggy and 2k pro was cheaper then xp pro, the only os i have seen as many seemingly random problems with is..*drum roll* you guessed it windows ME, and at times ME was even more easly delt with, at least it never had a service pack of hot fix that caused the whole os to go haywire.

some bad effects i have seen critical hotfixes cause.

drivers failing ti inilize for no reasion, normaly takes 15min to 2hrs to fix (15min if ur able to fully remove the hotfix/know what hot fix caused it) 

sound support dissapearing dispite drivers being installed.

EXTREAM system slowdowns on p4 systems(in not a p4 lover but when a critical hotfix cuts the system perf down to under 1/2 what it was....well u guessed it, i get angery)

optical drives dissapearing for no reasion requiering you to reassign them drive letters or del the ide controler and restart to get them back.

optical drived randomly reverting to pio mode and thus causing all sorts of system perf issues.(very rare with 2k, normaly caused by 3rd party software like starfarce, with xp, well i have seen it randomly happen and happen due to hotfixes)

random restarts/bsod's after critical hotfix installs.

windows nolonger connecting to tcp/ip networks due to a critical security hotfix.

i could go on and on, but these are the worse ones.

probems caused by sp2.

software failing to work properly or at all under sp2, forcing the software maker to hack around the problems and fix something because ms didnt update to fix it in a timely manner.

wireless network cards failing to work AT ALL till drivers where updated, possably causing system crashes/restarts/bsod's

firewall issues causing connections to not work properly or at all with it enabled(hell it wont even let you get a dhcp addy off a router if its enabled......

again i could go on and on, but these are the most common ones i have found.


2000 and 2003 on the other hand NEVER had these kinds of issues, no critical updates screwing up the os, all the 2k and 2k3 service packs have ADDED compatability and support.
and even perf at times.

xp was RUSHED OUT, hence the problems its got, vista was RUSHED out,hence the loss of fetures such as WinFS, ms infact dumped fetures to rush DRM into the os and get the os out as quick as possable.

xp is the first windows os to come out BEFOR its server counterpart, xp was put out  October 25, 2001  server 2003 was put out  March 28, 2003 so its a year and 7 months after xp was put out, theres a reasion for that, xp CANT work in server mode without crashing, it was rushed out beacuse ms needed an NT based desktop os and had marketed 2k as buisness only(marketing that was a bad choice to be sure) 

vista was rushed out to make hollywood happy that ms was pushing their agenda(hard core DRM for videos/audio) and because the current ceo of ms is a tool.

hence server 2008 will come out a year after vista(or longer) when its acctualy ready for prime.

in the past windows came out server+workstation at the same time.

windows 3.0 had windows nt3 server
windows nt 3.x had equivlant nt server versions.
nt4 had ws and server out at the same time.
2k same deal, xp they droped the ball, and vista.....well its just a nightmare currently for software support not to mention good drivers........talk about cluster fuck.........

my point is that i dont use xp because its crap, but i do use its older more mature and mentaly stable brother 2k and its younger yet more mature, stable, and robust brother 2003.


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 24, 2007)

as to the fx line, HORRID CARDS, i had a 5800ultra, it was not "the shit" it was just SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT, the 9600 KILLED IT at 1/4 the price 

and ati didnt need clocks, they had the better design, in dx9 they had true dx9 specs no partial persission bullshit, they did FULL persission period also each pipe had a shader unit, on the fx line it was like 2 pipes to 1 shader unit (bottleneck anybody?)

dont get me started i think i put a post up explaining why the fx line sucked already


----------



## x800professor (Feb 24, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> i dont use windows xp because it takes so much work to get it to the same point 2003 is out of the box, even with using nlite on xp u still have to do alot of tweaking after install to get xp as lean and mean as 2003 is OOTB.
> 
> and i didnt know i was using my toung thought it was my fingers doing the talking....(ok i wont go there.....har har)
> 
> ...



Whatever runs on XP will run on 2003, right?


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 24, 2007)

^....Ashens such a hippocrite.

X800Prof, 2003 isn't the "best" OS, its got a bag of non-user-friendly things about it. You will need to re-ed your Girlfriend to use it. It does have SOME compatability issues.

Man...the FX5200 got walked all over by my 9200SE... =_=.. talk about crap.


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 24, 2007)

tkp, you ever used 2003?

didnt think so.

first its XP with years more dev, you need to do some minor tweaking to get workstation mode out of it(EASY,eveny my stoner buggy who sucks with pc's manged it) 

2003 will run anything that xp will run except for AV software like norton or mcafee, because they want u to buy  a more expencive version of nav/mav thats ment for server use, nod32 or f-prot or a host of other av's work on 2003 just fine.

come in the tpu chat room(irc.techpowerup.com#techpowerup) and we can talk about it.

tep you can stop with the personal insults, and stop with the FUD as well, why dont you go read a book, maby one on basicks of fluid dynamics


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 24, 2007)

on and little FYI the only thing you really loose is system restore(can be re-added easly if ur  noob enought to need/want it) and the welcome screen(that ugly pos login screen with the nasty icons for users)

if 2003 is harder to use you need to tell my barly able to use a computer mother that, shes been using it for over a year since i installed it in place of windows 2000, shes got a new laptop with xp mce2005 on it and has ZERO problem moving from system to system, infact she wants to know if i can make the login screen on her laptop classic insted of welcome screen(i might eventuly but my father would have problems since hes now use to the welcome screen lol)


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 24, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> tkp, you ever used 2003?
> 
> didnt think so.
> 
> ...



Heeelooooo. I have used 2003, don't double post there is an edit button. There are several conveniences of XP that 2003 don't have. You always misinterpret people, GET BACK ON TOPIC, YOU ARE KILLING THIS THREAD.
You always think age is a barrier don't you?
And since when was this the "2003 is better than XP" thread? You ALWAYS introduce new things into threads that aren't wanted.
PLEASE cease the FLAMING, that was an invite for flaming as far as I can tell.
Hey X800Prof, the FOX-2 fan will reduce ambient and CPU temps by 5*C.


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 24, 2007)

tkp, read your own posts, you have been trying to flamebait me for some time.

and x800prof is the one that started the thred,hes not gonna have the cooler till monday so no new cooler topic info for a few days, hes intrested in 2003, and i never mentioned ur age, but then again you think that you know it all......thats ok, i thought i knew it all at your age to, you will get over it as do most of us as we age 

and i will dbl post if i want to dbl post, and your conveniance must be the welcome screen, something most people can live without, or is it system restore, oh wait you can add system restore to 2003 easly, that cant be it......then what could it be?


well have fun trying to make me look like im attacking you or whatever, im going to go watch a movie and eat something


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 24, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> tkp, read your own posts, you have been trying to flamebait me for some time.
> 
> and x800prof is the one that started the thred,hes not gonna have the cooler till monday so no new cooler topic info for a few days, hes intrested in 2003, and i never mentioned ur age, but then again you think that you know it all......thats ok, i thought i knew it all at your age to, you will get over it as do most of us as we age
> 
> ...



Since when were you flaming me?! Honestly. Make a new topic if you want to talk about 2003.

I am trying to get you to shut the hell up, FYI. You are falling for the non-existent trap.


----------



## Alec§taar (Feb 24, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> ^....Ashens such a hippocrite.
> 
> X800Prof, 2003 isn't the "best" OS, its got a bag of non-user-friendly things about it.



Like what? I don't see it... In fact, I think in a very real way, that it is the BEST of Windows 2000 & XP in a single box, & has more to it if you add the server-oriented stuff, which you can on the fly as needed, because it installs by default into more of a "Workstation/Pro" mode, than it does in "Server Mode" @ installation time.



tkpenalty said:


> You will need to re-ed your Girlfriend to use it.



I doubt that... it's no different using it than it is using Windows 2000, or XP really.



tkpenalty said:


> It does have SOME compatability issues.



What would those be?

APK

P.S.=> I am not kidding you though - anybody that's used Windows 2000, or Windows XP (even w/ its "lifesaver candy" looking color scheme/theme etc.) can hop right onto Windows Server 2003, & use it... 

(Ontop of all that above, they'd be then using a BETTER VERSION OF THE WINDOWS NT-BASED FAMILY @ that point, because it has things that are superior to Windows 2000/XP & went thru Ms' secure development model via a rewrite of 2k/XP code.

Windows Server 2003 is also the foundation of VISTA's underpinnings as well, because VISTA was written ontop off/of of the existing Windows Server 2003 codebase, not XP's)... apk


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## tkpenalty (Feb 24, 2007)

Alec§taar said:


> Like what? I don't see it... In fact, I think in a very real way, that it is the BEST of Windows 2000 & XP in a single box, & has more to it if you add the server-oriented stuff, which you can on the fly as needed, because it installs by default into more of a "Workstation/Pro" mode, than it does in "Server Mode" @ installation time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know that lol, there are just the odd few programs that refuse to run (mainly useless programs though LOL).


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 24, 2007)

see how the story changes when apk pops in :O  he becomes polite  and changes his story about it being harder to use and needing people to be retrained........wow, crazy


----------



## pt (Feb 24, 2007)

just to remenber you guys this is a thread about a cooler for a x1950xt, not a windows discussion thread


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## AshenSugar (Feb 24, 2007)

yes but x800pro(thred starter) wanted to know about windows 2003.

and it will be 2 more days b4 he gets his cooler, thats gonna be a while b4 he can talk about his exp with it


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## lufrey (Feb 24, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> yes but x800pro(thred starter) wanted to know about windows 2003.
> 
> and it will be 2 more days b4 he gets his cooler, thats gonna be a while b4 he can talk about his exp with it



Why don't you start a new thread to discuss OS'es. Seems to be a hot and passionate topic with some.


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## x800professor (Feb 24, 2007)

I really need that cooler.  The Vreg on this crashes at about 72c.  I have to run the fan at around 85% in order to stop that.  It took a while to diagnose that one...


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 25, 2007)

Wow thats getting hot :S


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## AshenSugar (Feb 25, 2007)

yeah, the vregs on amd cards need decent cooling, specly the high end cards, my card i had to reseat the vreg heatsink with some cheap white goop(bubble pack stuff) and all was good , but i have seen cards where i had to attach diffrent coolers to them to get them stable.....

85% is a little noisy isnt it?


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## Zalmann (Feb 25, 2007)

x800professor said:


> I really need that cooler.  The Vreg on this crashes at about 72c.  I have to run the fan at around 85% in order to stop that.  It took a while to diagnose that one...



You sure the vregs are the problem? Voltage regulators normally run quite hot, as the name suggest, they regulate the voltage to the rest of the components, to keep at a constant set voltage. 

Your video card may be drawing more power than it was designed to, most likely a result of over clocking. Maybe ease off the overclocking? Bring it back to stock speed and see if things stabilize.


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 25, 2007)

zalmann read around about the x1950 cards, the gt,pro,xt mostly/all use the digital VRM's and dont have good/any cooling on them, newer versions seem to be comming with coolers because it is needed

when the vrm's get to hot they start putting out unclean voltege, causing a crash or other problems, check out sapphires cards(x1900gt and up) many models had these issues with black screens that have been traced back to bad cooling on vrm's :/


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## x800professor (Feb 25, 2007)

It's getting RMA'd.  It overheats when it is underclocked.  It crashes constantly no matter what I do.  I'm going to go to walmart and buy a card and then take it back after I get the new x1950XT.  So, no results on the zalman for a while.  At least I'll know if it is certainly the card after I get the wal-mart card.  Gotta love their return policy.


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## AshenSugar (Feb 25, 2007)

can you get an x1950 at bestbuy?

 i have done that b4 and swaped them, bestbuy dosnt give a crap, hell we got a buddy an x800pro vivo that flashed to xt pe after 4 trys at bestbuy


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## tkpenalty (Feb 25, 2007)

LOL walmart. Do they sell EVERYTHING?

Make sure before using the card at all.. install the zalman and buy some heatsinks for the VRMs.


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## x800professor (Feb 25, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> can you get an x1950 at bestbuy?
> 
> i have done that b4 and swaped them, bestbuy dosnt give a crap, hell we got a buddy an x800pro vivo that flashed to xt pe after 4 trys at bestbuy



The closest Best Buy is 66 miles away from me.  Wally world's website has an X1950XTX on there.  If that's in the store it would be hard not to pull a switcheroo on the fan, but that's a liiiiitle dishonest for me.



			
				tkpenalty said:
			
		

> LOL walmart. Do they sell EVERYTHING?
> 
> Make sure before using the card at all.. install the zalman and buy some heatsinks for the VRMs.



This one is going back without a doubt, but I'll try the zalman on the next one.  I'm not messing with a card that can't run on stock settings without crashing constantly.


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## x800professor (Feb 25, 2007)

One thing I've noticed that is funny about this card.  If I don't play a game, it's fine.  If I play a game, it will be fine for a good while.  However, after I play the game, I try to use the computer at all, it crashes constantly.  If I leave it overnight, it's fine again.  It probably is a heat issue, but I don't care, this particular card is going back.


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## AshenSugar (Feb 26, 2007)

cant blame you, and if that box didnt have a window and the sticker on the cards dosnt show model(mine dosnt) that would be a hell of a tradeup lol

i wouldnt have a problem doing that to wallyworld for 2 reasions, they screwed me a few times and they treat their employs like crap, hence anything i can do to get one over on those smuchs is just a small bit of karmac payback on them


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## x800professor (Feb 26, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> cant blame you, and if that box didnt have a window and the sticker on the cards dosnt show model(mine dosnt) that would be a hell of a tradeup lol
> 
> i wouldnt have a problem doing that to wallyworld for 2 reasions, they screwed me a few times and they treat their employs like crap, hence anything i can do to get one over on those smuchs is just a small bit of karmac payback on them



I worked there for a while.  I hated it.  They treated me like garbage.  But I wonder if it would work...


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 26, 2007)

most walmart workers couldnt be arsed to look at the returned item more then a glance.

hell return it and say "it isnt even the right model!!!!! (act very indignant) "

i know somebody who did that with a fx5200 that he got a wallyworld then burned out overclocking, got a 5700, took the 5200back(cleaned up no dust or such) and they didnt even blink, just gave him his refund and said im sorry and have a nice day ROFL


----------



## Wile E (Feb 26, 2007)

Ashen's right. If you have a reciept, and the item isn't obviously tampered with, they'll just take it back. They don't care, it's a write off for them anyway.


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## x800professor (Feb 26, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Ashen's right. If you have a reciept, and the item isn't obviously tampered with, they'll just take it back. They don't care, it's a write off for them anyway.



An X1950XT fan will fit on an X1950XTX, right?


----------



## Wile E (Feb 26, 2007)

x800professor said:


> An X1950XT fan will fit on an X1950XTX, right?


As far as I know. Not that the clerk would notice anyway.


----------



## x800professor (Feb 26, 2007)

Wile E said:


> As far as I know. Not that the clerk would notice anyway.



Crap, they took it off the website.  I wonder if they have it in the store...?  I'll have to find out tomorrow.


----------



## x800professor (Feb 26, 2007)

The only other store near me is staples.


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## Zalmann (Feb 26, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> zalmann read around about the x1950 cards, the gt,pro,xt mostly/all use the digital VRM's and dont have good/any cooling on them, newer versions seem to be comming with coolers because it is needed
> 
> when the vrm's get to hot they start putting out unclean voltege, causing a crash or other problems, check out sapphires cards(x1900gt and up) many models had these issues with black screens that have been traced back to bad cooling on vrm's :/



Well, if that's the case, then it's really bad design then. I guess the early batches of these cards need to have some modification (heatsinks) added, this should be done by the manufacturers. :shadedshu


----------



## x800professor (Feb 27, 2007)

UPS tried to deliver the Zalman when I wasn't home, so I found a note on the door.  Plus, the X1950XT is on its way back to California.  In its place is a 9250 PCI from walmart.  Yeah, I'm going to be playing oblivion maxed out on this one...sure


----------



## x800professor (Feb 27, 2007)

Wow this thing is garbage.  It scored 782 on 3dMark03.  Now that's bad.


----------



## Zalmann (Feb 27, 2007)

I take it that it is only a temporary measure then, until you get a new/replacement VC?


----------



## x800professor (Feb 27, 2007)

Zalmann said:


> I take it that it is only a temporary measure then, until you get a new/replacement VC?



Until the new X1950XT gets here, then it goes back.


----------



## x800professor (Feb 27, 2007)

The case sure is quieter without the old dustbuster.  The loudest thing is the flap that won't stop vibrating on the front of the armor.


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 27, 2007)

lol, u may want to just keep the crappy card for emergncys its handy to have one around, i wish my emergncy card was a 92*0 card insted of a 4mb s3 virge


----------



## Zalmann (Feb 27, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> lol, u may want to just keep the crappy card for emergncys its handy to have one around, i wish my emergncy card was a 92*0 card insted of a 4mb s3 virge



That's a blast from the past, can remember the old S3 cards, they were quite reasonable and affordable.


----------



## pt (Feb 27, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> lol, u may want to just keep the crappy card for emergncys its handy to have one around, i wish my emergncy card was a 92*0 card insted of a 4mb s3 virge



i have a cirrus logic 4mb card, biggest pos of crap i know
my s3 trio agp is fcked up, it was a good performer in it's days


----------



## x800professor (Feb 27, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> lol, u may want to just keep the crappy card for emergncys its handy to have one around, i wish my emergncy card was a 92*0 card insted of a 4mb s3 virge



It cost $73.  I could get a heck of a lot better card for that.  It's going back.


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 27, 2007)

ouch, thats INSAIN i have seen them for under 40bucks lol


----------



## x800professor (Feb 27, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> ouch, thats INSAIN i have seen them for under 40bucks lol



I had a choice between that and an MX4000 for about the same price.  I thought they'd at least have an x300 or something.


----------



## Zalmann (Feb 28, 2007)

My backup VC is an NVIDIA 6800. It's still quite reasonable to use as a main VC, so I'm quite happy with it.


----------



## x800professor (Feb 28, 2007)

Zalmann said:


> My backup VC is an NVIDIA 6800. It's still quite reasonable to use as a main VC, so I'm quite happy with it.



That's a better card than the majority of people have for their main card.  That's a very good backup card.  I wish I could magically push my AGP x800GTO@16pp into a PCI-E slot, then I'd be using it right now because it eats this 9200 for a tiny afternoon snack.


----------



## Zalmann (Feb 28, 2007)

x800professor said:


> That's a better card than the majority of people have for their main card.  That's a very good backup card.  I wish I could magically push my AGP x800GTO@16pp into a PCI-E slot, then I'd be using it right now because it eats this 9200 for a tiny afternoon snack.



It used to be my main VC until about a couple of months ago when I bought my x1950pro. It was quite difficult justifying it (to the wife, aka she that must be obeyed), but Christmas is the best time of year, thank you santa.


----------



## x800professor (Feb 28, 2007)

I know one thing, zalman does a great job with the bottom of the heatsink.  It has a mirror finish.  I was expecting shiny, but this is pretty much a perfect mirror shine.


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 28, 2007)

perty copper bottem huh


----------



## x800professor (Feb 28, 2007)

Oh...spaghetti monster save me.  Same issues with the 9200 that I had with the x1950XT...and now a memory module died.  Even the same blue screen I got with whole infinite loop.  So, evidently I sent back a perfectly good X1950XT and now have a dead memory stick sitting on my desk that may have been causing the problems....ARRGH!


Oh yes, pretty copper base on that zalman.


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 28, 2007)

haha, i never assume its my videocard or any 1 part first, been a tech long enought to know that you cant assume such things without ending up regreting it more times then not 

u got 4gb, u can take out 2 and rma the dead "kit" if you have to send the whole kit.

little tip i learned LONG ago, MEMTEST EVERY TIME YOU START HAVING CRASHES, test 5 looped for 20times is normaly a good way to see if the rams wonky, its normaly the test that shows flaws/problems first.

sucks u sent back a good card


----------



## x800professor (Feb 28, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> haha, i never assume its my videocard or any 1 part first, been a tech long enought to know that you cant assume such things without ending up regreting it more times then not
> 
> u got 4gb, u can take out 2 and rma the dead "kit" if you have to send the whole kit.
> 
> ...



I know, I know.  I ran memtest for 3 hours on this the other day, no problems.  I just figured that, since it crashed every time I tried to run video, it must have had something to do with the video card.  The dead kit is going back.  I don't get how memtest and prime95 didn't catch this.  I actually ran prime95 the whole time I was in class from 9:30-4:30 a few days ago with zero errors.  After that, I turned on powerpoint and went to full screen presentation mode and bam! driver reset after driver reset until I got an infinite loop BSOD.  I've been working on computers for years...even with my experience that sounded like a video problem.  Especially considering the fact that it liked to do it after I finished playing a game.  arrrgh.


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 28, 2007)

prime isnt really in my exp a very good memtester.

like i said test 5 only, it pushes the ram VERY hard, thus gives quickist errors.

i know how big a pain memory errors can be, specly when rams rated at XXX clocks and will only do xxx clock stable even with extra volts!!!!!


----------



## x800professor (Feb 28, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> prime isnt really in my exp a very good memtester.
> 
> like i said test 5 only, it pushes the ram VERY hard, thus gives quickist errors.
> 
> i know how big a pain memory errors can be, specly when rams rated at XXX clocks and will only do xxx clock stable even with extra volts!!!!!



It's pretty hard to diagnose when no program can find an error, including memtest.  I do have to wonder if the card was having problems too.  Well, if it was, I'll get a new one along with the new memory.  Better safe than sorry I suppose.


----------



## Zalmann (Feb 28, 2007)

x800professor said:


> Oh...spaghetti monster save me.  Same issues with the 9200 that I had with the x1950XT...and now a memory module died.  Even the same blue screen I got with whole infinite loop.  So, evidently I sent back a perfectly good X1950XT and now have a dead memory stick sitting on my desk that may have been causing the problems....ARRGH!
> 
> 
> Oh yes, pretty copper base on that zalman.



Dammit, don't you hate that!   Now you have to wait a while longer for the replacement card, and replace that faulty memory.  

Yes, the Zalmans, especially the VF900 are a very good looking and elegant unit. Unlike the AC X2, which look quite bulky to me.


----------



## x800professor (Feb 28, 2007)

Zalmann said:


> Dammit, don't you hate that!   Now you have to wait a while longer for the replacement card, and replace that faulty memory.
> 
> Yes, the Zalmans, especially the VF900 are a very good looking and elegant unit. Unlike the AC X2, which look quite bulky to me.



I like the look of the cooler, but the ramsinks it comes with are tiny.  I'm thinking about buying different ones.  Anybody have any suggestions on that or should I just keep these?


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 28, 2007)

x800professor said:


> I like the look of the cooler, but the ramsinks it comes with are tiny.  I'm thinking about buying different ones.  Anybody have any suggestions on that or should I just keep these?



the stock ones do VERY well, im at 1610mhz on ram and the ram barly gets warm, heatsinks dont need to be huge to do the job, due to how the air flows over them when placed properly these are VERY efficent.

place them so that the \||||/ are dirrected at the cooler for best airflow, you dont want the sinks to be _ _ _ _ (sidewase)  its all about proper airflow.

also i have acctualy seen larger sinks do worse then the zalmans due to being thicker at the base, thus holding more heat in at the base needing more airflow to cool properly, i tryed a bunch of diffrent ram sinks on my x800xt pe, and the zalman sinks where acctualy better then even the $34 copper sinks i got from xoxide, im quite sure this is due to the design of the zalmans being smaller and thiner at the base also the fins being well placed/angled as apposed to many other brands being just a bunch of |||||| fins with a thick base.

i know they dont look impressive, but try them out, they do the job VERY well as long as you install them correctly(dirrectioned correctly AND stuck on properly)

dont waist ur $ buying pricy sinks that at best will do the same job, i know i tryed like 8 diffrent sets trying to get that extra little bit out of my card, and non of them where any better then the zalmans with the same airflow.


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 28, 2007)

Zalmann said:


> Dammit, don't you hate that!   Now you have to wait a while longer for the replacement card, and replace that faulty memory.
> 
> Yes, the Zalmans, especially the VF900 are a very good looking and elegant unit. Unlike the AC X2, which look quite bulky to me.



it is quite bulky, tkp tryed to say the zalman weighed more, check back a few pages, turns out the x2 was alot heavyer 
as well as taking up more space :/

i have installed bouth, and at least with my zalman i can stick a modem  or nic in the pci slot between my pci-e 16x slots,(1 slot between the card and the pci slot) with the x2 i couldnt do that( i know i have tryed on other ppls systems, its frustrating) 

the x2 was really designed for btx cases, this was because intel was pushing hard to try and get everybody to move to the btx standred insted of atx because the p4 needed better cooling, and in btx the x2 would be sticking out the top of the card blowing the heat dirrectly into the flow path of the case fans and out the back of the case.

but since BTX has been dumped by everybody but dell (think they are even giving it up now) arctic cooling will probbly go back to the silencer designs that exaust heat out the bace of the case and dont take up 2 extra slots insted of just one.

i love the vf900 on my card, 700/1600 core/mem is pretty good at stock volts i think   specly now that it never passes 65c even after 3+hrs of hard gaming at 1600x1200x32bpp, hdr+aa+af+aaa+eatm+atma  in farcry in a very warm room, oh yeah and the coolers at max and TOTALY SILENT!!!

one tip x800prof use dirrect power from you psu not a mobo fan header, the mobo headers tend to not give fans full volts/speed and auto ajust wont work to well unless ur mobo has the abillity to set each fan header sepretly.

i just use dirrect 12v off my psu with a little adapter, works like a charm, and is still inaudible over even my "slient" vantech 80mm case fans and cpu cooler.


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## Wile E (Mar 1, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> it is quite bulky, tkp tryed to say the zalman weighed more, check back a few pages, turns out the x2 was alot heavyer
> as well as taking up more space :/


Yeah, but both weigh significantly less than the stock unit. That thing weighed a ton. lol


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## AshenSugar (Mar 1, 2007)

yeah, but i found a way to make the stock cooler not suck!!!!

lap it, take the shell off and stick a 70mm fan dirrectly on its fins , i used spider wire to sinch it down and tie it off so i wouldnt damnage the fins with screws, the stock cooler lacks good airflow over the fins because it sucks air across them with that blower, fan, its a good idea, but dosnt work as well in practice as it should.

the reasion i stuck a fan on the heatsink dirrectly is a client and old friend of mine had the fan on his x1800xt start death rattling and the maker isnt gonna just send a new fan, he didnt want to risk trading a 512mb xt for a 256mb 1950xt, so i carfuly removed the cooler, had him lap it as i went and dug around for a good flow TMD fan(last one i had.....i need more of them, they rock)  he was quite impressed, at full the 70mm tmd moves alot of air, sounds almost silent and guess what, the temps where better then stock was at 100% fan, even the VRM;s on his card are cooler thanks to the airflow off the stock cooler over them!!!!!


kinda a gheto mod but it works!!!!!!


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## Wile E (Mar 1, 2007)

How would you say that setup compares to an X2?


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## AshenSugar (Mar 1, 2007)

very close i would say, at least on the card i set it up on, it REALLY helped, and the airflow isnt dirrected at the motherboard its dirrected out the front of the card and off the back f the card(where it flows up and out the back or top vents of any decent case) worked far better then even i expected, the core/die mount serfice was VERY VERY bad on that cooler, u could file ur fingernails on it, took like 45min of laping to get it pretty smooth, then about 20min with brasso to get it shiny smooth mirror finish, just used acitone to remove the brasso resedu and applyed asc to the core AND ram conntacts worked great, whole cards running cooler now.

oh if you have an x1900 range card taking the vrm sink off and adding some cheap white goop(like u get at radioshack) then sticking it back on REALLY helps improve the conntact


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## Zalmann (Mar 1, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> yeah, but i found a way to make the stock cooler not suck!!!!
> 
> lap it, take the shell off and stick a 70mm fan dirrectly on its fins , i used spider wire to sinch it down and tie it off so i wouldnt damnage the fins with screws, the stock cooler lacks good airflow over the fins because it sucks air across them with that blower, fan, its a good idea, but dosnt work as well in practice as it should.
> 
> ...



I did a similar thing on my old 6800. I mounted an old Athlon XP fan onto the heatsink. I removed the thin metal cover that only had an opening for the stock fan, and made a cardboard cutout that had a hole to accomodate the larger fan. It worked, and kept the GPU cooler, but it was also loud as all hell. I got rid of it after a few months, and replaced it with a Zalman VF700, and have been happy with it ever since.


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## AshenSugar (Mar 1, 2007)

the tmd fans are not 100% slient, but compared to the stock coolers fan its 1/4 as loud or less, u can hear it, but not over most common system fans


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## x800professor (Mar 2, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> very close i would say, at least on the card i set it up on, it REALLY helped, and the airflow isnt dirrected at the motherboard its dirrected out the front of the card and off the back f the card(where it flows up and out the back or top vents of any decent case) worked far better then even i expected, the core/die mount serfice was VERY VERY bad on that cooler, u could file ur fingernails on it, took like 45min of laping to get it pretty smooth, then about 20min with brasso to get it shiny smooth mirror finish, just used acitone to remove the brasso resedu and applyed asc to the core AND ram conntacts worked great, whole cards running cooler now.
> 
> oh if you have an x1900 range card taking the vrm sink off and adding some cheap white goop(like u get at radioshack) then sticking it back on REALLY helps improve the conntact



You'd think they would have done a slightly better job with that heatsink.  It's no wonder nvidia was praised back then for their fan setups.  They certainly were much, much better than what ATI was spitting out on their reference designs.


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## AshenSugar (Mar 2, 2007)

i duno, the 5800ultra i had was loud as fuck, think an 80's dustbuster and your about at the right sound.

and my buddys 7800gtx was a loud one at full fan, tho it was a diffrent tone then ati coolers it was still loud and annoing.

the cooler we got on the x800xtpe/x850xt pe/x1800xt/1900xt cards was a comprimise to those who wanted the heat exausted out of the case insted of what nvidia was doing and having it blow out the front and back of the card, they should have just imbraced the silencer and its variants as stock, would have been better for everbody, run them 100% fan and still cant hear them......

with a directflow fan on the heatsink it really pulls heat alot better and isnt neerly as loud, was thinking of moding the plastic but his cards got a 5 year warr and i dont want to void that fully by visibly changing the cooler, think if the dirrect flow fan AND the exaust fan where running, the exaust fan at auto so it dosnt get to loud as long as teh cores cool, and exausting part of the heat out of the system, would be a good idea if it worked, he may buy a new card and let me void it anyway, or he may get a card with the same stock cooler and have me mod one and keep one normal(would work for me  ) just to see what perf we can gain out of it with moding.


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## tkpenalty (Mar 2, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> i duno, the 5800ultra i had was loud as fuck, think an 80's dustbuster and your about at the right sound.
> 
> and my buddys 7800gtx was a loud one at full fan, tho it was a diffrent tone then ati coolers it was still loud and annoing.
> 
> ...



Agreed. Also the FX5800 cooler had no heatpipes and drab memory cooling. The fan was inefficient and loud as hell (I think there was no fan control...).


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## x800professor (Mar 2, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Agreed. Also the FX5800 cooler had no heatpipes and drab memory cooling. The fan was inefficient and loud as hell (I think there was no fan control...).



I was talking about the 7900's.  The whole FX series sucked endlessly.  The 7900GTX has a quieter fan than does the X1900 series, though the X1950XTX's fan is much improved.


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## tkpenalty (Mar 2, 2007)

oic, yeah the 7900GTX cooler is great. X1950XTX's one is by far better however.


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## x800professor (Mar 2, 2007)

I hate being in Ohio.  My x1950 still hasn't even reached newegg.  I'm probably not even going to get to try out that zalman next week.  After that, it's spring break.  I can't remember how long it typically takes newegg to process an RMA once they receive it, but UPS says they are getting it on Monday.


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## tkpenalty (Mar 2, 2007)

x800professor said:


> I hate being in Ohio.  My x1950 still hasn't even reached newegg.  I'm probably not even going to get to try out that zalman next week.  After that, it's spring break.  I can't remember how long it typically takes newegg to process an RMA once they receive it, but UPS says they are getting it on Monday.



One misfortune after another... I feel sorry for you  .

Are you on another PC right now?


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## AshenSugar (Mar 2, 2007)

next time u ship something back to newegg, use usps, seirously, use priority mail, its cheaper and normaly takes 2-3days even from across the country, i sent an hdd back to seagate a few months back it was 5bucks INSURED to ship it and it took 2days, i had teh drive back in less then 2 weeks


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## x800professor (Mar 3, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> One misfortune after another... I feel sorry for you  .
> 
> Are you on another PC right now?



I was on the same computer.  I purchased that 9200 to keep using it.  Now I'm home on my old x800 rig.  This computer has my beautiful 22" Compaq P1220.  This thing absolutely destroys my 17" scratched up, $10 from a yard sale pile of junk I have at college.  I forgot how nice the picture was, and how big it is.  Of course, the 22" widescreen LCD I'm probably going to get for the X1950XT will be even bigger, but the image won't be better than a professional (originally almost $1,000USD) CRT.  I haven't decided what exact monitor I'm getting just yet, but it's probably going to be a 22" LCD.  I might just wait until most of them have HDMI.


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## tkpenalty (Mar 3, 2007)

Professional CRT = 120hz refresh?


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## x800professor (Mar 3, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Professional CRT = 120hz refresh?



340MHz maximum pixel clock frequency for one, so maximum refresh depends on the resolution, but its maximum refresh is 160Hz.


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## AshenSugar (Mar 3, 2007)

yeah, i have had a few VERY nice crt's and infact NO lcd to date can compair with a highe end crt for pure quility.

i have owned mitsubishi diamontron 17 and 19in monotors, STELLER montotors, far crisper then even this 21.1 gaming lcd, only reasion i use the gaming lcd is that  over the years my 19in diamontron, 19in kds, 19in hitchi(great prof monotors) all have taken damnage to the tube, stupid people trying to clean them with the wrong stuff(scrubby pads insted of just a damp cloths mostly) 

there are 3 important things people dont tend to realise about crt vs lcd.
1. dot pitch: this is VERY important for clairty, the closer the dots are to eachother the clearer the image is, lcd's even extreamly expencive ones are higher dotpitch then a good crt, infact this ones got .25 dotpitch and my crt has .24 and i can tell the diffrance, mainly beacuse the dots on lcds are SQUARE so u can see each one of you are wihtin 2 feet of your monotor.
2. refresh rate: now this does effect lcd's but in a diffrent way then crt's, if you are using a digital dvi connection you need to FORCE higher then "stock" refresh on you lcd, my 21.1in uses 60hz at 1600x1200 over VGA, but that setting carrys over to digital for some reasion, when i force 120hz it (almost) totaly removes taring in windows and games, refresh rate is the speed at witch the image is refreshed onto the screen, with a crt you want att least 75hz at 1600x1200, 85+ is perfect.

a crt unlike an lcd wont show taring even at lower refreshrates on desktop or in game as long as vsync is enabled, this is another advantege of good crt's.

3. maturity, crts are FAR more mature as a display tech, no dead pixels are possable, they tend to last 10+years if they arent abused
 hell i have 15in crt's that are from the early 90's and even 2 OLD ASS 12in crts that are from some of the first pc's ever made, they still work 100% perfect.

lcds are the new kid on the block thats why you see dead pixels,poor dotpitches, and other little issues.

oh b4 anybody brings on contrast ratio, crts (decent to good quility ones) have ajustiable contrast my old diamontron 17in puts this lcd to shame, and that units over 7 years old.

The Dissadvantege, side, crts are larger and bulkyer, this is why lcd's have taken off so much in home use, tho in my exp not so much in gfx related fields, i have done contract work for a couple companys what did alot of graphical work, and they dont use even high end lcds for the work, they use high end crt's, when i asked them about it the reasion was some of what i stated above, better dot pitch gives better clarity and fine detail, no refresh issues, and no dead pixels(there where others but those are the ones that stuck with me) 

money wasnt the issue but they did mention that for the price of a decent 20in lcd they could get 2 high end crt's that would run at 2048 res with a high refreshrate.


x800prof if you want a cheap way to replace that 17in pos try www.merkortech.com , choose accurat it, they have STUNNING deals on large high quility crt's, recently someobyd i know got a 24in sony widescreen crt for 375bucks FREE SHIPING!!!!!
last one i ordered was a 21in ibm crt with DVI-D(digital dvi) connection for a client, shes quite happy with it and it was all of 175bucks free shiping 

some of them acctualy have almost the same depth as my 17in , the 21in ibm is between the size of my 17in and 19in in depth, and was STUNNING for clarity, quite shocking how nice it was, if i had the $ i would have ordered 2 more of them for me


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## x800professor (Mar 3, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> yeah, i have had a few VERY nice crt's and infact NO lcd to date can compair with a highe end crt for pure quility.
> 
> i have owned mitsubishi diamontron 17 and 19in monotors, STELLER montotors, far crisper then even this 21.1 gaming lcd, only reasion i use the gaming lcd is that  over the years my 19in diamontron, 19in kds, 19in hitchi(great prof monotors) all have taken damnage to the tube, stupid people trying to clean them with the wrong stuff(scrubby pads insted of just a damp cloths mostly)
> 
> ...



Don't forget power consumption.  That's another drawback of CRTs.  This one slurps down 155W.  Everyone who has ever used this monitor loves it.  Check this out http://www.pcworld.com/zoom?id=101777&page=2&type=top100chart&zoomIdx=1
They have one on accurateIT, but its $229.  I got this one on Ebay with a 2 year warranty for something like $120.  It's in perfect condition.  The biggest drawback is the pure size of this thing.  I won't have to worry about native resolution on this, and that is great.  I know that X1950XT won't be able to do 2048x1536 in too many games, but it doesn't matter.

By the way, most of the dead pixels today are usually caused by a speck of dust.  It's not necessarily that its a  "young" technology, it's just that it is rather costly to build them in a totally dust free room or toss out every panel with a single dead pixel.  Now 5-6 years ago, most of the dead pixels were the result of manufacturing errors, but today it's mostly dust.  That's why you usually don't see clusters of dead pixels very much anymore.  You'll usually just see one or two.  HOWEVER, a single dead pixel would drive me insane.  It's one of the big reasons I don't have an LCD on anything but my old Toshiba P25-S607 laptop.  Not a single dead pixel on that, hurray!


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## Wile E (Mar 3, 2007)

One other negative to a CRT is the increased eye strain. My CRT gives me headaches after about 2-3hrs. No such thing with the LCDs on my Macs.


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## AshenSugar (Mar 3, 2007)

most laptop screens have zero dead pixels in my exp.

yeah you added something i forgot, native res, on an lcd the native res is IMPORTANT, on an lcd non native res's look BAD, on crt, well any res you choose will look as crisp and clear as any other 

that bothers me on this one, i got a few OLD games that run at lower res's and dont support 1600x1200 and i loose quility at non native res


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## AshenSugar (Mar 3, 2007)

Wile E said:


> One other negative to a CRT is the increased eye strain. My CRT gives me headaches after about 2-3hrs. No such thing with the LCDs on my Macs.



use a higher refresh rate, thats your problem eye strain is caused by poor refreshrate, thats not an issue with digital dvi crt's.

your eye is sencitive to the "flicker" that your refreshrate is causing at 1280x1024 and up you want 75-85hs MINIMUM to keep from getting a headake, depends on the monotor, higher is better.
with ditital connections you have less worrie as he monotor isnt usign the old style refresh rate setup it can be sent 120hz and still display it just fine even if the native 1600x1200 hs is 75hz(like my 19in kds) u can dissable the "only show supported" mode and try settings higher then stock, most will do 1-3 settings higher then they are official rated for.


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## Wile E (Mar 3, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> use a higher refresh rate, thats your problem eye strain is caused by poor refreshrate, thats not an issue with digital dvi crt's.
> 
> your eye is sencitive to the "flicker" that your refreshrate is causing at 1280x1024 and up you want 75-85hs MINIMUM to keep from getting a headake, depends on the monotor, higher is better.
> with ditital connections you have less worrie as he monotor isnt usign the old style refresh rate setup it can be sent 120hz and still display it just fine even if the native 1600x1200 hs is 75hz(like my 19in kds) u can dissable the "only show supported" mode and try settings higher then stock, most will do 1-3 settings higher then they are official rated for.


Mines currently at 85Hz, but thanks for the tip, Ashen. I didn't think to disable the checkbox. Gonna give it a go when I get back on that machine.(God, what have I come to when I even want to "overclock" my monitor.  )


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## AshenSugar (Mar 3, 2007)

u may also need to dissable ddc to allow higher refreshed rate, dont use the warcat drivers they screw up manual setting of refreshrates over stock, remove all the options over stock, quite annoing....


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## x800professor (Mar 3, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Mines currently at 85Hz, but thanks for the tip, Ashen. I didn't think to disable the checkbox. Gonna give it a go when I get back on that machine.(God, what have I come to when I even want to "overclock" my monitor.  )



If you can find the maximum pixel clock frequency (or video signal bandwidth) for your monitor, you can get a good idea of what your monitor can do.

Use this to figure out if your monitor can handle it.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/videosignalcalc.html

Mine is 340MHz, so if I want to see if I can do 1600x1200x100(100=refresh rate) I type that in and find that takes 288MHz to do it.  I should be fine.


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## x800professor (Mar 3, 2007)

By the way, the Horizontal Scanning Frequency is another thing to check, but you should be ok in that department if you're ok in the other area.


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## x800professor (Mar 5, 2007)

I better get my x1950XT back soon.  I tried playing oblivion using the oldblivion mod.  Wow, it looked like I was playing an RPG version of the original DOOM.  This card is so incredibly weak.  I wonder what they actually do with a card when it is RMA'd anyway.  Do they just check it over for physical damage or do they actually pop it in something and test it?


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## tkpenalty (Mar 5, 2007)

They check for physical damage or voltmods. Then they toss it in the bin/take the cooler and reuse for other purposes (recycling). Then they send you a new GPU.


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## AshenSugar (Mar 5, 2007)

newegg tests them, but not normaly b4 they ship a replacment, thats why u can get open box cards/boards/devices that work flawless  the truely damnaged ones get sent back to the maker then the replacments are sold as openbox as well


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## x800professor (Mar 5, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> newegg tests them, but not normaly b4 they ship a replacment, thats why u can get open box cards/boards/devices that work flawless  the truely damnaged ones get sent back to the maker then the replacments are sold as openbox as well



That's what I was hoping for.  Maybe I'll get a better overclocker this time.  That one refused to go above 665 and remain stable no matter how high I put the fan.  A little extra voltage didn't help anything.


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## x800professor (Mar 6, 2007)

Newegg is being rather slow with this RMA.  The received it yesterday morning and it is still on step 1.  I'm not getting that card back this week.


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## AshenSugar (Mar 6, 2007)

its the univerce trying to teach you a lession, its saying you sent back a perfectly fine card so you gotta wait


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## x800professor (Mar 6, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> its the univerce trying to teach you a lession, its saying you sent back a perfectly fine card so you gotta wait



Maybe not.  Some of the problems I had with that card haven't happened since.  It crashed when I went to slide show mode...or did anything else that used video at all.  It doesn't do that now.


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## x800professor (Mar 8, 2007)

Oh...my...god.  Memtest for 5 hours, no errors.  About an hour after I turn off memtest, I go to start up the calculator and the computer suddenly freezes.  Then, no matter what I did, I get no post.  I cleared the CMOS and everything, but got nothing.  Then I remove one stick of ram, nothing.  Then I switch the sticks and, bam!  It works.  Ok, memtest has been worthless to me for this computer.  I've heard that this motherboard kills ram.  Well, there goes another stick.

DO NOT BUY THE EVGA 680i MOTHERBOARD, IT IS A PILE OF GARBAGE.


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## AshenSugar (Mar 8, 2007)

i dont do intel on my parts and i sure as hell wouldnt buy EVGA branded mobo's eather way lol.

even if i dont get the bench results that c2d get, guess what, i still game great and my system cost alot less to build  

and yes i have seen reports of a few intel boards recently being ram killers, even a couple reports of cpu killing boards....nasty stuff......only reports like that i have seen for amd was the old ULI chipset asrock board and most times ppl that had problems had psu's with unclean volteges, saw one guy whos psu was "name brand" (aspire) who was just sure it was the board, he had gone thru 4 boards and 3 cpus and blamed the board, then he got an intel p-d setup and his psu blew frying his board/chip/ram/hdd's/opticals/keyboard/mouse/webcam......it was funny/ironic(moronic) 

well good luck, hope you can get it worked out, seems your mobo/ram is to blame not your videocard


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## pt (Mar 9, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> even if i dont get the bench results that c2d get, guess what, i still game great and my system cost alot less to build



exactly my toughts when buying parts


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## AshenSugar (Mar 9, 2007)

pt, i have alwase felt "why pay more for the same or neer same performace"

sure i could encode/recode a little faster, but so what, i normaly start recodes on my main rig when im doing other stuff or run them in the background, dosnt take that long they run at 2-3x 

gaming, well i put my 3500+@2.9gz(its fully stable at 3 but i want to get a better cooler b4 i hold it at that for good)  with x1900xtx against my buddys c2d rig with the same card, farcry, he had NO advantege, ut2k4 same deal, the only game i saw with him having an advantege was oblivion, and its a pig of a port.....horribly unoptimized....

oh and he got a boost with quake4 smp patch , but still didnt out perform me by much( maby 5fps at 1600x1200 aa/af/hdr all the goodies cranked up with att  )


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## x800professor (Mar 9, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> pt, i have alwase felt "why pay more for the same or neer same performace"
> 
> sure i could encode/recode a little faster, but so what, i normaly start recodes on my main rig when im doing other stuff or run them in the background, dosnt take that long they run at 2-3x
> 
> ...



I haven't used intel since a PIII 450.  I hated netburst with a burning passion.  However, I'm no fanboy, so I figured I'd buy the processor with the most performance for the money.  The e6600 beats ANY AMD CPU out there.  However, in 7 years of using AMD the biggest problem I ever had was a non-functioning USB controller on one motherboard.  I've had nothing but problems with this.


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## Zalmann (Mar 9, 2007)

x800professor said:


> Oh...my...god.  Memtest for 5 hours, no errors.  About an hour after I turn off memtest, I go to start up the calculator and the computer suddenly freezes.  Then, no matter what I did, I get no post.  I cleared the CMOS and everything, but got nothing.  Then I remove one stick of ram, nothing.  Then I switch the sticks and, bam!  It works.  Ok, memtest has been worthless to me for this computer.  I've heard that this motherboard kills ram.  Well, there goes another stick.
> 
> DO NOT BUY THE EVGA 680i MOTHERBOARD, IT IS A PILE OF GARBAGE.



Mate! you are having the worst run of luck I have ever seen.  BTW, without having to read all the above, has your replacement VC arrived?


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## x800professor (Mar 9, 2007)

Zalmann said:


> Mate! you are having the worst run of luck I have ever seen.  BTW, without having to read all the above, has your replacement VC arrived?



Yes I am and no it hasn't.  They haven't even shipped it.  

EVGA told me that they are shipping me a new board.  If this one kills $700 worth of RAM like the last one did, then they'll "discuss the next step."  I wanted my money back, but no go on that.  So, I guess they need $1,400 worth of dead sticks sitting around to realize that they make crap.


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## AshenSugar (Mar 9, 2007)

evga dosnt acctualy make the boards, they order them from other makers normaly jetway, but many times in my exp the evga versions have lesser caps and such on them :/


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## Zalmann (Mar 9, 2007)

Well, I really hope things work out for you. Hopefully one day soon, you'll get to use that Zalman fan that you started this thread for.


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## lufrey (Mar 9, 2007)

x800professor said:


> Yes I am and no it hasn't.  They haven't even shipped it.
> 
> EVGA told me that they are shipping me a new board.  If this one kills $700 worth of RAM like the last one did, then they'll "discuss the next step."  I wanted my money back, but no go on that.  So, I guess they need $1,400 worth of dead sticks sitting around to realize that they make crap.



That's some very bad luck your having. Maybe you should get a rabbits foot keyring to even out your luck.


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## x800professor (Mar 10, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> evga dosnt acctualy make the boards, they order them from other makers normaly jetway, but many times in my exp the evga versions have lesser caps and such on them :/



In this case it is just an NVidia board with an evga sticker on it.


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## tkpenalty (Mar 10, 2007)

x800professor said:


> Yes I am and no it hasn't.  They haven't even shipped it.
> 
> EVGA told me that they are shipping me a new board.  If this one kills $700 worth of RAM like the last one did, then they'll "discuss the next step."  I wanted my money back, but no go on that.  So, I guess they need $1,400 worth of dead sticks sitting around to realize that they make crap.



First goes your GPU, then your Motherboard and RAM.... what next? CPU? PSU? Man... I feel sorry for you. 

All these RMA attempts are so slow... as well. 

So just sue them, since their motherboard destroyed your RAM. Its THEIR fault, if they knew it you have a right to sue them. Take your CPU out just in case the motherboard decides to wreck it :rollout:.

Get a P5W DH Deluxe.... if they decide to refund.


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## x800professor (Mar 10, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> First goes your GPU, then your Motherboard and RAM.... what next? CPU? PSU? Man... I feel sorry for you.
> 
> All these RMA attempts are so slow... as well.



When I first got the thing I discovered that my DVD-RW would not work with my motherboard.  This has been a blast.  I can't believe how slow newegg has been with this.  They didn't even acknowledge that they received it until about a week after they received it.


----------



## Zalmann (Mar 10, 2007)

x800professor said:


> When I first got the thing I discovered that my DVD-RW would not work with my motherboard.  This has been a blast.  I can't believe how slow newegg has been with this.  They didn't even acknowledge that they received it until about a week after they received it.



DVD burner as well!!  So much bad luck, you should buy a lottery ticket, your bad luck has to end some time, and it could be with a lottery!


----------



## x800professor (Mar 10, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> First goes your GPU, then your Motherboard and RAM.... what next? CPU? PSU? Man... I feel sorry for you.
> 
> All these RMA attempts are so slow... as well.
> 
> ...



That was the motherboard I was looking at for the longest time before the 680i came out.  I like the overclocking options on the 680i, which I why I picked it.  Can't even do 1T timings on the P5W.  Not to mention that I don't think I can fiddle with the multiplier on that board.  If this kills my ram again, I'll end up sending it back to corsair again...and then they better give me my money back.  By that time bearlake should be out.  I wonder how good (or bad) that will be.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 10, 2007)

I just realized that this thread is over a month old and I still don't have my zalman installed.  Stupid, stupid parts.


----------



## AshenSugar (Mar 10, 2007)

hehe, yeah sucks dont it :/

and ddr2 is designed to work at 2t really the perf hit isnt neerly what it is on ddr1, very low infact


----------



## x800professor (Mar 10, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> hehe, yeah sucks dont it :/
> 
> and ddr2 is designed to work at 2t really the perf hit isnt neerly what it is on ddr1, very low infact



eh, about .1-.15 seconds on superpi 1m for me.  Not a lot, but still.  It was part of my personal battle for a score in the 13s.


----------



## Ling-ling (Mar 10, 2007)

You must have gremlins living in your PC case


----------



## Zalman (Mar 10, 2007)

This is one big thread. I tried reading from the start, but it's too big.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 10, 2007)

Ling-ling said:


> You must have gremlins living in your PC case



Yes, yes I do.  They must have been drawn to it because of its size.  At least the case works.  Well, the molex connector for the 25cm fan on the side is a pile of poo.  It fell apart when I tried to connect it to the power supply.  The black wire (ground) fell out so I had to rewire it and one of the pins fell out, so I had to put it back in.  I'm glad it was the black wire, that's easier to deal with than the +5V wire.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 10, 2007)

Zalman said:


> This is one big thread. I tried reading from the start, but it's too big.



Yes, it started as a question about a fan and ended up my personal journey through computer hell.


----------



## Behemoko (Mar 11, 2007)

ACA X2 FTW! I think it would not only outperform 2 of the other 3 cards (at least!) but it's about half the price.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 11, 2007)

x800professor said:


> Yes, yes I do.  They must have been drawn to it because of its size.  At least the case works.  Well, the molex connector for the 25cm fan on the side is a pile of poo.  It fell apart when I tried to connect it to the power supply.  The black wire (ground) fell out so I had to rewire it and one of the pins fell out, so I had to put it back in.  I'm glad it was the black wire, that's easier to deal with than the +5V wire.



Are you very rough with your parts?


----------



## AshenSugar (Mar 11, 2007)

tkp look up that board hes got i did, alot of reports of it being suspected of killing ram.......


----------



## x800professor (Mar 11, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> tkp look up that board hes got i did, alot of reports of it being suspected of killing ram.......



In over a decade of building computers, I killed one TNT2 Ultra when it was already about 7 years old.  That was it.  It may not have been my fault, it may have been.  I have been very gentle.  I am not rich, so I treat $1,700 worth of computer parts like they are my 20 weeks premature baby with osteogenesis imperfecta.  If you are referring to the molex, it looks like it was put together by someone at 4:59 on Friday so to speak.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 12, 2007)

I wish I had waited.  This cooler kicks the crap out of a VF-900CU.

http://xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/coolermaster-coolviva-pro_5.html


----------



## Zalmann (Mar 13, 2007)

x800professor said:


> I wish I had waited.  This cooler kicks the crap out of a VF-900CU.
> 
> http://xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/coolermaster-coolviva-pro_5.html



I'm not so sure about an ass kicking, but I like the feature of being able to vent some of the hot air outside, even though it doesn't vent directly. A little bulky, even bigger than the x2.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 13, 2007)

Zalmann said:


> I'm not so sure about an ass kicking, but I like the feature of being able to vent some of the hot air outside, even though it doesn't vent directly. A little bulky, even bigger than the x2.


I don't know man, 10c at full load, that qualifies for ass kicking in my book. But, then again, it is "to each his own."


----------



## Zalmann (Mar 13, 2007)

Wile E said:


> I don't know man, 10c at full load, that qualifies for ass kicking in my book. But, then again, it is "to each his own."



Okay, the performance is decent. I just don't like the size of it, in my particular case, I have a slimline HTPC case on my second rig and would not suite due to the size. I like the VF900 as it is very compact for it's size and whisper quite, not to mention it looks good.

This cooler is ideal for people with larger cases, so it is worth considering.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 14, 2007)

Zalmann said:


> Okay, the performance is decent. I just don't like the size of it, in my particular case, I have a slimline HTPC case on my second rig and would not suite due to the size. I like the VF900 as it is very compact for it's size and whisper quite, not to mention it looks good.
> 
> This cooler is ideal for people with larger cases, so it is worth considering.



Cases don't get much bigger than my armor, but I already have the VF900CU.  I got this big case so I would never have any space problems.  Plus, the airflow is great.  It is 24.6c directly above my big typhoon in a 27.1c room.  Yes, it is cooler in the case than out of it.  It's probably because that 25cm fan sucks in all the cold air on the floor and circulates it in the case.  I'm using a digital thermometer for the readings.  It still amazes me when I pull that thermometer out of the case and the reading goes up.


----------



## Grings (Mar 14, 2007)

on the original subject of graphics coolers, sytrin kuformula's vf1 is good

http://www.shinyhardware.co.uk/products/SYTRIN_KuFormula_VF1_Plus/7301/

hard to find though, and ugly


----------



## Zalmann (Mar 14, 2007)

Grings said:


> on the original subject of graphics coolers, sytrin kuformula's vf1 is good
> 
> http://www.shinyhardware.co.uk/products/SYTRIN_KuFormula_VF1_Plus/7301/
> 
> hard to find though, and ugly



Gee, that is extremely ugly, not to mention huge and sticks out a fair bit. Even with a large case, you'll probably need to cut out a window in the side of your case to fit that beast!


----------



## Wile E (Mar 14, 2007)

Zalmann said:


> This cooler is ideal for people with larger cases, so it is worth considering.


That's exactly what I was thinking. May be time for an upgrade for Wile E. lol


----------



## x800professor (Mar 15, 2007)

New card is here!  Well, it's only running with 1GB of ram since all the other sticks are dead.  I'll be installing the Zalman sometime this week and will have test results to post.  YES!  I'm not going to install it immediately because I want to test the card first.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 15, 2007)

1GB of ram and 600Mhz of C2D (I am not doing much overclocking right now) is worth about 600-800 3dmarks on 3dmark05.  I still scored 12378.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 16, 2007)

Oh my freaking god.  This card artifacts and crashes every time I try to load a game or do anything that involves the card.  I guess I'll try to clear the drivers or something, but I bet this dumb card is either dead or my 750w PSU isn't providing enough power.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 16, 2007)

Finally figured out what was crashing this card.  In order to overclock the FSB, I have to raise the FSB voltage.  When I raise the FSB voltage, it raises the PCI-E voltage.  When the PCI-E voltage gets too high, the card crashes.  So the card is working just fine now.  I'm getting my new, hopefully non-ram killing board tomorrow.  I have to rebuild the computer for the 6th or 7th time.  2GB of RAM is in the mail, when I get it back I'll have to send out the other 2.  When all is said and done, this better work.

Oh yeah, this card overclocks better than the last one and it doesn't run as hot.  It still hits the 70s, but not the 90s.  It's at 695.25 right now, perfectly stable.  The last one wouldn't go over 670.  The memory actually overclocks on this one.  The last one would crash if I tried to run it at 908 (1816).  This one is at least running at 918 (1836).  Not much of an overclock, but I'm trying to figure out what a good voltage for the memory is.  This is 1ns memory (I think), so I should be able to hit 1000 (2000).  The Zalman will go on tomorrow if I have time and I will post results.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 17, 2007)

*Results...finally!*

I have the fan running at 100% right now.  It idles at 44c.  That's no better than the stock fan.  Time to run the fuzzy dice.  It hit 86c under load and it was still going up.  This fan is garbage.  I have it seated properly, running at 100%, and tightened.  It is quiet....but does not cool any better than the stock cooler.  Actually, the stock cooler cools much, much, much better.  I can keep it in the 60s with the stock cooler in dustbuster mode.  This zalman is probably going on ebay or back to newegg and the stock cooler is going back on.


----------



## Zalmann (Mar 17, 2007)

Ah, just get rid of it then.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 17, 2007)

Zalmann said:


> Ah, just get rid of it then.



I'm going to give it one more shot.  I'm going to reseat it and re-apply the AS ceramique just to see what happens.  I knew it wouldn't cool as well as the stock fan in dustbuster mode, but 86c with no signs of stopping?  That's insane.  I think the Vf-900cu is just too small for the R580.


----------



## Zalmann (Mar 18, 2007)

x800professor said:


> I'm going to give it one more shot.  I'm going to reseat it and re-apply the AS ceramique just to see what happens.  I knew it wouldn't cool as well as the stock fan in dustbuster mode, but 86c with no signs of stopping?  That's insane.  I think the Vf-900cu is just too small for the R580.



Try it again, as I never had any problems with mine, it works so efficiently that my GPU temps were down about 10~15C from my stock unit. Maybe it's not sitting correctly, that's the only thing I could think of.

It looks very small, but the performance was good, and it looks quite nice (to me).


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 18, 2007)

... why not wait for the VF1000CU or buy the AcceleroX2? I mean the accelero has a bigger dissipation area overall.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 18, 2007)

Zalmann said:


> Try it again, as I never had any problems with mine, it works so efficiently that my GPU temps were down about 10~15C from my stock unit. Maybe it's not sitting correctly, that's the only thing I could think of.
> 
> It looks very small, but the performance was good, and it looks quite nice (to me).



You have an x1950pro, it is not nearly as power hungry or as hot as an R580 based GPU.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 18, 2007)

x800professor said:


> You have an x1950pro, it is not nearly as power hungry or as hot as an R580 based GPU.



Why don't you try using an AcceleroX2? The VF900CU is good but to a certain extent...


----------



## pt (Mar 18, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Why don't you try using an AcceleroX2? The VF900CU is good but to a certain extent...



the VF-900 kicks the ass of the accelero and the thermalright hr-03 with a good fan kick both of them


----------



## x800professor (Mar 18, 2007)

pt said:


> the VF-900 kicks the ass of the accelero and the thermalright hr-03 with a good fan kick both of them



The vf-900 is just not enough for my GPU.  It's probably going to go on my X800GTO@16pp that I have in my old computer.  I'm going to get a newer cooler for this if I keep it long enough.  It might go out the door when prices start coming down on the next generation of cards (R600&G80).


----------



## Ketxxx (Mar 18, 2007)

Bloody hell hows this thread keep popping back


----------



## Ketxxx (Mar 18, 2007)

x800professor said:


> The vf-900 is just not enough for my GPU.  It's probably going to go on my X800GTO@16pp that I have in my old computer.  I'm going to get a newer cooler for this if I keep it long enough.  It might go out the door when prices start coming down on the next generation of cards (R600&G80).



X1950XT runs really hot nomatter whats done to it really. on air cooling in normal temperatures tho, I dont see why a well configured air solution cant keep the GPU around 65c under load.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 18, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> Bloody hell hows this thread keep popping back



It's the energizer bunny I tell ya.  

I can now tell anyone who has an X1950XT to stay far away from the VF-900CU.  Get something newer with more heatpipes.  Hopefully, this part of the thread helps someone in the future.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 18, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> X1950XT runs really hot nomatter whats done to it really. on air cooling in normal temperatures tho, I dont see why a well configured air solution cant keep the GPU around 65c under load.



The stock fan in dustbuster mode can do that, but well, it sounds like a dustbuster.


----------



## DOM (Mar 18, 2007)

mine only has one heat pipe and im getting on load right now folding 58-60C at 675/972 stock volts

fan at 77%


----------



## x800professor (Mar 18, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> mine only has one heat pipe and im getting on load right now folding 58-60C at 675/972 stock volts
> 
> fan at 77%



Well, they should at least stay away from the VF-900 then.  There are better fans out there.  The X2 is useless too.  The CoolViva Pro sounds like a good idea.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 18, 2007)

That GPU is just too hot.


----------



## DOM (Mar 18, 2007)

yea Ive seen that review I was like   are they testing out in the desert

cuz what are your room temps

and what temps are you getting on your CPU at 3.6GHz and how much volts are you putting to it


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 18, 2007)

Btw.. I just rememebered something.

The VF900CU's fins do not touch the base... which creates a bottleneck at the two heatpipes when its loaded too much. The AcceleroX2 does however... If it was copper, you would see the difference.

Thats why its not so efficient.


----------



## Zalmann (Mar 18, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Btw.. I just rememebered something.
> 
> The VF900CU's fins do not touch the base... which creates a bottleneck at the two heatpipes when its loaded too much. The AcceleroX2 does however... If it was copper, you would see the difference.
> 
> Thats why its not so efficient.



Ah bullcrap. I don't know where you think you got your degree in engineering, but you don't.

I did engineering decades ago when I studied, but I don't go on about me knowing everything including thermal dynamics.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 18, 2007)

Zalmann said:


> Ah bullcrap. I don't know where you think you got your degree in engineering, but you don't.
> 
> I did engineering decades ago when I studied, but I don't go on about me knowing everything including thermal dynamics.



Sorry old man, I haven't even done thermal dynamics. You dont have to fucking bury me under all your "experience".

Geez, lay off man... Well explain. Go ahead man, geez if you say stuff like that at least back it up.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 18, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> yea Ive seen that review I was like   are they testing out in the desert
> 
> cuz what are your room temps
> 
> and what temps are you getting on your CPU at 3.6GHz and how much volts are you putting to it



I did the testing in a basement that was about 17c.  Rather cold.  It was going to go back to an apartment that is usually several degrees hotter.  If it hit 86c in a cold basement, it would get hotter in that apartment.  My CPU is at 1.41v and maxes out at about 52-55c under full load, depending on room temp.  My case is extremely efficient and usually keeps the inside temp at least as low as the ambient room temp.  It sucks in the cold air on the ground and spits out the hot air at the top of the case.  If you look a few posts back, I measured the temp inside the case and it was actually lower than the temp outside of the case.  The reason was that I had a window open and it was cool out.  The cool air came in, was forced to the floor by the hot air in the room, and was then sucked into the case.  That GPU is just extremely, extremely hot.  The cooler that came on your card must be rather nice.  Unfortunately, I've read that they don't last very long.  Maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones who doesn't have problems with the cooler.  If it starts making a grinding noise, it is about to die.


----------



## DOM (Mar 18, 2007)

x800professor said:


> I did the testing in a basement that was about 17c.  Rather cold.  It was going to go back to an apartment that is usually several degrees hotter.  If it hit 86c in a cold basement, it would get hotter in that apartment.  My CPU is at 1.41v and maxes out at about 52-55c under full load, depending on room temp.  My case is extremely efficient and usually keeps the inside temp at least as low as the ambient room temp.  It sucks in the cold air on the ground and spits out the hot air at the top of the case.  If you look a few posts back, I measured the temp inside the case and it was actually lower than the temp outside of the case.  The reason was that I had a window open and it was cool out.  The cool air came in, was forced to the floor by the hot air in the room, and was then sucked into the case.  That GPU is just extremely, extremely hot.  The cooler that came on your card must be rather nice.  Unfortunately, I've read that they don't last very long.  Maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones who doesn't have problems with the cooler.  If it starts making a grinding noise, it is about to die.



can you RMA it? cuz there must be something up with it for it to get that hot, what are your volt settings in atitool 

thanks for telling me about the cooler   I just saw some of the reviews but I have had mine for 2 months


----------



## Zalmann (Mar 18, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Sorry old man, I haven't even done thermal dynamics. You dont have to fucking bury me under all your "experience".
> 
> Geez, lay off man... Well explain. Go ahead man, geez if you say stuff like that at least back it up.



Okay Tk, sorry mate, I didn't mean to bight your head off like that. 

The VF900 as a pure heatsink (no bias towards Zalman HSF) is quite an efficient in design, and has very good thermal properties as well a high thermal saturation, not to mention being very compact. 

The fact that the heatpipes bring the heat directly close to the edge of the copper fins, means quick transfer of heat energy close to the end of each heatsink fin/blade where the fan has maximum effect (highest air velocity). 

A normal HSF of this design without the two heatpipes (like the VF700) is not as efficient as it takes longer for the heat energy to travel down the fins.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 18, 2007)

How about the heatpipes themselves? Dont they have cycles?


----------



## x800professor (Mar 18, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> can you RMA it? cuz there must be something up with it for it to get that hot, what are your volt settings in atitool
> 
> thanks for telling me about the cooler   I just saw some of the reviews but I have had mine for 2 months



Yes I can.  The volts and everything else were set to default during testing.  Look at reviews, the Vf-900 just can't handle an R580 based GPU.  It's a nice cooler and all, but it probably needs to be somewhat larger to handle such a hot GPU.  I might use it on my x800 or just send it back.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 18, 2007)

Just try the AcceleroX2.. get it from a friend or something. It might be able to take more heat.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 18, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Just try the AcceleroX2.. get it from a friend or something. It might be able to take more heat.



It's either worse or no better than the VF-900.  The CoolViva Pro is clearly better than the VF-900, so I'll wait for it or just get rid of the card in May or sometime after.

We already came to the conclusion that it wouldn't fit in my case with that 25cm fan by the way.


----------



## DOM (Mar 18, 2007)

x800professor said:


> Yes I can.  The volts and everything else were set to default during testing.  Look at reviews, the Vf-900 just can't handle an R580 based GPU.  It's a nice cooler and all, but it probably needs to be somewhat larger to handle such a hot GPU.  I might use it on my x800 or just send it back.



well Boneface has a Vf-900 and hes temps where 688/999 at 40 idle


----------



## x800professor (Mar 18, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> well Boneface has a Vf-900 and hes temps where 688/999 at 40 idle



He has an R580 based GPU?  (x1900XT(X) or x1950XT(X))


----------



## x800professor (Mar 18, 2007)

By the way, idle temps aren't my problem with the VF-900.  I was around that, then it jumped over 40c when I actually ran the thing.


----------



## DOM (Mar 18, 2007)

the 1950XT and I think the load temps where 60's some where around there


----------



## x800professor (Mar 18, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> the 1950XT and I think the load temps where 60's some where around there



Then he did some sort of modding.  Either that, or he had a better vf900 than either I or Xbitlabs had.


----------



## DOM (Mar 18, 2007)

what kind of paste did you use


----------



## Zalmann (Mar 18, 2007)

x800professor said:


> Yes I can.  The volts and everything else were set to default during testing.  Look at reviews, the Vf-900 just can't handle an R580 based GPU.  It's a nice cooler and all, but it probably needs to be somewhat larger to handle such a hot GPU.  I might use it on my x800 or just send it back.



Well prof, maybe your x1950xt has reached the thermal saturation of the VF-900. I'm not sure how, as my close friend has a VF-900 LED version and he also has the X1950xt. He clocks it very high and is a very hard-core gamer, unlike myself. His idle temp is only around 40C and maxes out at around 55C, and he lives up in Northern Australia where the temperatures and humidity can be quite extreme.

Have you tried lapping the VF900? You normally don't have to, as the factory finish is normally clean and flush with a mirror finish.


----------



## Zalmann (Mar 18, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Sorry old man, I haven't even done thermal dynamics. You dont have to fucking bury me under all your "experience".
> 
> Geez, lay off man... Well explain. Go ahead man, geez if you say stuff like that at least back it up.



Hey, watch your fricking language. You think you feel a little more confident now changing your previous comments??


----------



## pt (Mar 18, 2007)

x800professor, i think there is something wrong with your card, the temps are just too high

@Zalmann and tkpenalty

















the vf-900 is clearly a better cooler!


----------



## Ling-ling (Mar 18, 2007)

pt said:


> x800professor, i think there is something wrong with your card, the temps are just too high



I agree with your point, x800profs card sounds suspect. I have an x1950xt (or had since I sold it and bought an 8800GTS) and ran it with the VF-900 and it worked very well compared to the stock noisy piece of shit that came with it.

My temps never exceeded 65C under absolute maximum load, and clocked as high as I can with it being stable.

Maybe prof is running the cooler of the motherboard header instead off the 4 pin molex connector?


----------



## Grings (Mar 18, 2007)

http://tomshardware.co.uk/2006/08/3...oundup_2006_uk/page9.html#cooling_performance

a write up on coolers, this is where i originally saw that ugly sytrin


----------



## x800professor (Mar 18, 2007)

Zalmann said:


> Well prof, maybe your x1950xt has reached the thermal saturation of the VF-900. I'm not sure how, as my close friend has a VF-900 LED version and he also has the X1950xt. He clocks it very high and is a very hard-core gamer, unlike myself. His idle temp is only around 40C and maxes out at around 55C, and he lives up in Northern Australia where the temperatures and humidity can be quite extreme.
> 
> Have you tried lapping the VF900? You normally don't have to, as the factory finish is normally clean and flush with a mirror finish.



It has a mirror finish.  I used AS ceramique.  It was applied almost perfectly from what I saw when I removed it.  I used that fanmate thing and turned the fan all the way up.  I had it plugged into the motherboard, but I doubt that would account for about 30c.  I had the motherboard set to run the fans at 100% all the time.  The fan was spinning just fine. 

I could get one of these things http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812189119

But I seriously doubt that is going to lower the temps by 30c. 

Those charts are for an X1800XT.  That does not get quite as hot as an X1950XT.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 18, 2007)

Well I guess I might as well give it a shot with that adapter.  I have to figure out where to buy one.  Newegg charges more for shipping than the dumb thing is worth.  I don't have a bestbuy or anything that resembles a computer store outside of circuit city near me.  I'll have to use something else to reattach the ramsinks of course.  I think thermal paste would work on them.


----------



## pt (Mar 19, 2007)

x800professor said:


> Those charts are for an X1800XT.  That does not get quite as hot as an X1950XT.



the charts we're just to proof the vf-900 is better, if it cool's a colder card more , then it will also cool better with any gfx  

i still vote for fked up gfx


----------



## x800professor (Mar 19, 2007)

pt said:


> the charts we're just to proof the vf-900 is better, if it cool's a colder card more , then it will also cool better with any gfx
> 
> i still vote for fked up gfx



This card can be kept cooler with the stock cooler than with the vf-900.  It's not the card.  I'm going to try the adapter.  I understand that connecting it to the motherboard won't provide it with as much power as a direct connection to the PSU...but 30c?  That's a bit much.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 19, 2007)

Ok, I have until the 22nd to get a refund on this card.  Should I send it back for a replacement because the fan obviously is spinning far slower than it should be or should I just get a refund?


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 19, 2007)

pt said:


> x800professor, i think there is something wrong with your card, the temps are just too high
> 
> @Zalmann and tkpenalty
> 
> ...



All those reviews were from the same source, around a century ago we were talking about this :shadedshu


Refund the Cooler. Then try a cooler that uses your GPU's cooling fan, thermalright HR-03 or AcceleroX2.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 19, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> All those reviews were from the same source, around a century ago we were talking about this :shadedshu
> 
> 
> Refund the Cooler. Then try a cooler that uses your GPU's cooling fan, thermalright HR-03 or AcceleroX2.



The X2 probably won't fit in my case and the HR-03 would ram into my NB fan.


----------



## Ketxxx (Mar 19, 2007)

x800professor said:


> By the way, idle temps aren't my problem with the VF-900.  I was around that, then it jumped over 40c when I actually ran the thing.



Have you checked the shim on the GPU to make sure none of it is sitting slightly higher than it should be? That would explain good idle temps but horrid load temps


----------



## x800professor (Mar 19, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> Have you checked the shim on the GPU to make sure none of it is sitting slightly higher than it should be? That would explain good idle temps but horrid load temps



It's not the card.  I can keep it in the 60's with the stock cooler in dustbuster mode.  I put the stock cooler back on and everything is fine outside of the crazy noise.  Well, shortly afterwards the fact that I switched motherboards screwed up something in XP, and it refused to boot again.  I left my XP CD at my college apartment, so I had to install 64 bit vista.  I can't even get out of 2d mode now because of these idiotic drivers.  Of course no overclocking software works now.  Well, oddly, in 2D mode (checked with Rivatuner, it never changes speed) oblivion works about as well as it did in 3D mode in XP.  That makes no sense considering vista usually cripples graphics cards...


----------



## pt (Mar 19, 2007)

x800professor said:


> The X2 probably won't fit in my case and the HR-03 would ram into my NB fan.



your nb?
depends how you put your card


----------



## Ketxxx (Mar 19, 2007)

x800professor said:


> It's not the card.  I can keep it in the 60's with the stock cooler in dustbuster mode.  I put the stock cooler back on and everything is fine outside of the crazy noise.  Well, shortly afterwards the fact that I switched motherboards screwed up something in XP, and it refused to boot again.  I left my XP CD at my college apartment, so I had to install 64 bit vista.  I can't even get out of 2d mode now because of these idiotic drivers.  Of course no overclocking software works now.  Well, oddly, in 2D mode (checked with Rivatuner, it never changes speed) oblivion works about as well as it did in 3D mode in XP.  That makes no sense considering vista usually cripples graphics cards...



When you remove the HSF is there a HS toward the back of the card like on the old X1800XT model? If there is its worth removing that and making sure its making good contact, as if its not that will cause insanely high GPU temps as well


----------



## Wile E (Mar 19, 2007)

x800professor said:


> It's not the card.  I can keep it in the 60's with the stock cooler in dustbuster mode.  I put the stock cooler back on and everything is fine outside of the crazy noise.  Well, shortly afterwards the fact that I switched motherboards screwed up something in XP, and it refused to boot again.  I left my XP CD at my college apartment, so I had to install 64 bit vista.  I can't even get out of 2d mode now because of these idiotic drivers.  Of course no overclocking software works now.  Well, oddly, in 2D mode (checked with Rivatuner, it never changes speed) oblivion works about as well as it did in 3D mode in XP.  That makes no sense considering vista usually cripples graphics cards...


That's really weird. My 1800XT has no problems switching into 3d mode in Vista. I've tried 32bit Home Premium and Ultimate and 64bit Home Premium. As far as performance, some 3D games do perform better in Vista for me, especially since I upgraded to 2GB of ram. Maybe it's actually your power supply having problems?


----------



## x800professor (Mar 19, 2007)

Wile E said:


> That's really weird. My 1800XT has no problems switching into 3d mode in Vista. I've tried 32bit Home Premium and Ultimate and 64bit Home Premium. As far as performance, some 3D games do perform better in Vista for me, especially since I upgraded to 2GB of ram. Maybe it's actually your power supply having problems?



Everyone with an x1950XT and vista is having problems.  It crashes whenever it tries to switch to 3d mode.  So we have to disable the ATI startup items in order to run it...or run the games windowed.  I think that it is switching the clocks without changing the voltages, because it artifacts and crashes as soon as it switches.  It's not just me having those problems. 



			
				pt said:
			
		

> your nb?
> depends how you put your card



I guess I could stick it in the other x16 slot.  I'll probably never be able to do crossfire on an SLI board anyway.  Even if I could, I'd likely not.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 22, 2007)

I....hate....this....build.  I'm running Vista x64 now, and of course I can't run 3d clocks because it will crash because the latest drivers do not support my card.  So I ran oblivion in 2d mode for a good while and everything was fine.  Now it artifacts and crashes and resets the drivers all over again just like it did before each stick of ram died on the old motherboard.  Now, it's either the graphics card or I have another stick of ram about to die.  Memtest is useless for this because it could never detect that the old sticks were about to die, so I guess its time to sit back and watch another stick die.  I'm about 2 seconds away from calling my cousin, who is an attorney, and suing EVGA for all that crap this pile of crap motherboard has cost me.  Let's review:

Jan 18 2007 - Ordered Parts
Mar 22 2007 - Still don't have a properly functioning computer

RMA'd:
X1950XT
2 sticks of RAM (2 more to follow)
DVD-Drive
EVGA 680i TWICE

I also have to RMA a VF-900CU, but I purchased that later.  I have never had nearly this many problems with a build.  I thought it was bad when I ordered an old socket A board that came DOA, and then the USB controller on the second board didn't work.  That computer is still running perfectly fine.  If I could go back in time and not order this, I would.  I've had to rebuild the computer at least 8 times.  I actually ordered this at the beginning of winter quarter because all I had was a laptop that I had to share with my girlfriend.  Spring quarter is about to start and the stupid thing still does not work.  My suggestion for a fan on THIS x1950XT?  A blender would do nicely.  The card will never overheat after I stick it in the blender and set it to puree.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 22, 2007)

This computer continues to amaze me.  Now ATItool works.  It usually never works on x64 for this card, but now it does.  I clocked it to stock 3d clocks and it actually runs the fuzzy dice about 40fps faster than it did under XP.  Let's see how long before it crashes...


----------



## x800professor (Mar 22, 2007)

x800professor said:


> This computer continues to amaze me.  Now ATItool works.  It usually never works on x64 for this card, but now it does.  I clocked it to stock 3d clocks and it actually runs the fuzzy dice about 40fps faster than it did under XP.  Let's see how long before it crashes...



After about 5 minutes of silky smooth oblivion, the driver reset and put the clocks back to 2d mode.  After getting out of oblivion, I was able to reset the clocks back to 3d speeds using ATItool.  I scanned for artifacts and it ran fine for a minute...then froze.  After a restart ATItool doesn't work again.


----------



## Zalmann (Mar 22, 2007)

x800professor said:


> After about 5 minutes of silky smooth oblivion, the driver reset and put the clocks back to 2d mode.  After getting out of oblivion, I was able to reset the clocks back to 3d speeds using ATItool.  I scanned for artifacts and it ran fine for a minute...then froze.  After a restart ATItool doesn't work again.



Is your room built on an ancient indian burial ground?? My suggestion is to get a priest to do an exorcism on your computer, that may fix the problems that you are getting, as that is the most amount of bad luck I've ever seen anyone have.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 22, 2007)

Zalmann said:


> Is your room built on an ancient indian burial ground?? My suggestion is to get a priest to do an exorcism on your computer, that may fix the problems that you are getting, as that is the most amount of bad luck I've ever seen anyone have.



I'm starting to think that my tower is infested with gremlins.  I've built dozens of computers and about 90% of them post the first time I press the power button and never need a single RMA.  Usually, I build them for other people.  I go to build one for myself, and I get this.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 23, 2007)

Now the card displays artifacts on the desktop and won't run any 3d application for more than a half a second without crashing.  Kill...me.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 23, 2007)

Look at those two pictures, don't you love it when that happens?  I'm even getting artifacts right now!  SWEET!  I love artifacts!  and crashes!  and crappy hardware!  YAY!  Yippee!


----------



## x800professor (Mar 23, 2007)

Oh look!  It's like a waterfall of artifacts!  Wonderful!


----------



## pt (Mar 23, 2007)

x800professor said:


> Now the card displays artifacts on the desktop and won't run any 3d application for more than a half a second without crashing.  Kill...me.



had the 3d app problem too, had to RMA it
suggestion: get a cocktail molotov and burn your pc
start from 0


----------



## x800professor (Mar 23, 2007)

pt said:


> had the 3d app problem too, had to RMA it
> suggestion: get a cocktail molotov and burn your pc
> start from 0



Sounds like an idea.


----------



## Ketxxx (Mar 23, 2007)

x800professor said:


> Look at those two pictures, don't you love it when that happens?  I'm even getting artifacts right now!  SWEET!  I love artifacts!  and crashes!  and crappy hardware!  YAY!  Yippee!



Thats memory related.. back down your OC or try relaxing timings a little. As for the naff driver, your not the only one suffering. Us 1950Pro owners are getting mystery lockups too. IMO ATi have a real bunk driver, I'm surprised ATi quality has fallen so much in the time between my 6800GT and 1950Pro, quite a shock to the system.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 23, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> Thats memory related.. back down your OC or try relaxing timings a little. As for the naff driver, your not the only one suffering. Us 1950Pro owners are getting mystery lockups too. IMO ATi have a real bunk driver, I'm surprised ATi quality has fallen so much in the time between my 6800GT and 1950Pro, quite a shock to the system.



It's underclocked.  It won't run in 3d mode.  I know it's memory related, but the memory is running at 500x2!  It's supposed to run at 900x2!


----------



## x800professor (Mar 23, 2007)

The card is going back AGAIN.  There's no way it is my computers RAM that is doing this.  This is a second card that has died.  I'm going to order a card from walmart.com and then take it back after I get my card back.  It is going to be tough not to buy this and then take back the XT instead...

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5460501


----------



## x800professor (Mar 23, 2007)

Actually, I might sell it when I get the 3rd card back and buy an 8800GTS 320...


----------



## Zalmann (Mar 23, 2007)

x800professor said:


> Actually, I might sell it when I get the 3rd card back and buy an 8800GTS 320...



Sounds like a better plan to me. You seem to have so many problems with your XT.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 23, 2007)

Zalmann said:


> Sounds like a better plan to me. You seem to have so many problems with your XT.



Yep, hopefully I can get at least $190 out of it on ebay.  I'm not even going to take it out of the packaging, so it will be sold brand new.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 23, 2007)

Agreed. I swear thats heaps of bad karma, what did you do? Order a holocaust in BF2? Lets just hope your 8800 doesnt die.. Lyk... after getting it you ESD it O_O


----------



## pt (Mar 23, 2007)

i still think it could be your psu killing your parts...


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 23, 2007)

pt said:


> i still think it could be your psu killing your parts...



seems like it now... seriously is powertek even a good brand? Regardless if its crossfire or SLI compliant.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 23, 2007)

I already said this, too. Everything else had to be rma'd, it's the only thing left that makes sense.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 23, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> seems like it now... seriously is powertek even a good brand? Regardless if its crossfire or SLI compliant.



I haven't read anything about this PSU killing parts, but I think the first part to go would be the CPU, which is perfectly fine.  It's actually the only internal part that is still here.  Well, one stick of ram from the original 4 is still here, but that's going back.  The PSU has generally good reviews with a few "died quickly" reviews here and there, but you'll find those even on the best PSUs.  If the 8800 dies, then I'm chucking this PSU out the window.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 23, 2007)

x800professor said:


> I haven't read anything about this PSU killing parts, but I think the first part to go would be the CPU, which is perfectly fine.  It's actually the only internal part that is still here.  Well, one stick of ram from the original 4 is still here, but that's going back.  The PSU has generally good reviews with a few "died quickly" reviews here and there, but you'll find those even on the best PSUs.  If the 8800 dies, then I'm chucking this PSU out the window.


Do you have another psu available, just for testing?


----------



## x800professor (Mar 23, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Do you have another psu available, just for testing?



Not a 24 pin PSU.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 23, 2007)

The x1950XT is packaged up and the 8800GTS 320 is ordered.  I sent newegg a lengthly email detailing all of the problems I have had with this build in the hopes that they will give me some sort of discount.  Maybe they will really take pity on me and let me exchange it, but I doubt it.  So, it about 2 and a half weeks or so I'll probably be putting a brand new x1950XT on ebay.


----------



## DOM (Mar 23, 2007)

have you tryed calling them ?? cuz when my ram went bad and my 1st card was bad they sent it with advanced replacement so you wont have to wait for them to get yours, but you have to ask them to ask there Sup.  and if they dont want to, tell them your problems and tell them you'll get the tracking # from ups or fed-x give it to them so they already know its on the way


----------



## x800professor (Mar 23, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> have you tryed calling them ?? cuz when my ram went bad and my 1st card was bad they sent it with advanced replacement so you wont have to wait for them to get yours, but you have to ask them to ask there Sup.  and if they dont want to, tell them your problems and tell them you'll get the tracking # from ups or fed-x give it to them so they already know its on the way



I might call them after I see what they have to say to my last email.  It is about 7:36 in California right now so they should be getting back to work soon enough.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 23, 2007)

...

Lets just hope your 8800GTS does not fail. I really do think now its your PSU. Does it have the noise cancellation blocks on the PCI-E connectors? If it doesnt, I spotted your problem. Or its just that you rush everything and scraped some ICs off.

Try running your X800 in this, I bet you it will fail and do the same thing. You have RMA'ed two parts, a whole motherboard, two coolers, RAM... but you havent checked the PSU. Another problem with that PSU even if its single rail, it seems sorta weird that 42amps can supply up to 625W. 

Cancel the 8800GTS order, then buy yourself a decent *multi-rail* psu, this seems like a generic brand and thus they are usually single rail anyway. and then get yourself an X1950XT again. I bet it WILL not fail like it did several times.

Another problem I find with some TPU'ers is that they go "single rail > multi rail", with that people blindly buy single rail PSUs of high wattage, but ignore the fact that they may be generic. Well lol, generic PSUs are rarely multi rail.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 24, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> ...
> 
> Lets just hope your 8800GTS does not fail. I really do think now its your PSU. Does it have the noise cancellation blocks on the PCI-E connectors? If it doesnt, I spotted your problem. Or its just that you rush everything and scraped some ICs off.
> 
> ...



The X800 is AGP.  I had a PCI card in there for about 2 1/2 weeks with ZERO issues.  I'd rather avoid the distribution losses of a true mulit-rail system.  PC Power and Cooling doesn't even use multi-rail PSUs, and they are most certainly not generic.  If my PSU was killing components, it would have killed the CPU by now, and it hasn't.  If it is my PSU, then why did both cards work wonderfully for several hours (weeks in the case of the first one)...crash...and then never work again?  The only way the PSU could explain that is if it actually killed the cards.  Like I said, if it were responsible for killing everything that died, it would have killed the CPU by now.  Actually, it would have killed the motherboard before it killed the RAM.  The motherboard worked, it just killed RAM....which is why it went back.  I didn't "blindly" buy this PSU.  There were nothing but glowing reviews of it when I purchased it.

What do you mean by noise cancellation blocks?  My PCI-E connectors are in no way damaged.  I do not install in a hurry.  The only component that I ever damaged was an 8 year old TNT 2 Ultra that I wasn't being very careful with, mainly because it was worthless.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 24, 2007)

Dude a PCI card IS NOT connected to the PSU. Thus there are no problems >_>. If you want to test this, find a GPU that needs a PCI-E connector. I said nothing about your motherboard.

Anyway on each of the PCI-E connectors it should be a bit bulkier with this sealed block. Thats the noise cancellation. If that isnt installed, the power quality isnt as good.

To test my theory get yourself a GPU that needs a PCI-E connector, that isnt ATI. Something that barely loads the PSU.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 24, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Dude a PCI card IS NOT connected to the PSU. Thus there are no problems >_>. If you want to test this, find a GPU that needs a PCI-E connector. I said nothing about your motherboard.
> 
> Anyway on each of the PCI-E connectors it should be a bit bulkier with this sealed block. Thats the noise cancellation. If that isnt installed, the power quality isnt as good.
> 
> To test my theory get yourself a GPU that needs a PCI-E connector, that isnt ATI. Something that barely loads the PSU.



A PCI card is not connected to the PSU, but had the PSU been killing components, it would kill the MB before it killed the ram.  Think about it, the ram isn't directly connected to the PSU either.  It would have probably blown the northbridge if it sent a power surge to the ram.  I get the idea that a PCI-E card is directly connected to the PSU and that it could possibly be killing cards, but I'll just have to see.  If it kills the 8800, newegg will hear about it.  If it doesn't, yippee.

I can tell you that the PCI-E connectors barely fit, so I doubt that they could be any bulkier.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 24, 2007)

Take a photo of it.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 24, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Take a photo of it.



My camera sucks, I tried to sharpen it, but this is as good as it is going to get.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 24, 2007)

No the whole cable as well. From what I can see it doesnt come with the noise cancellation block I mentioned... well well well problem spotted.






See that chunky bit on the blue molex connector? Its sleeved, THAT is what i was talking about. If you have bad power quality, this is a good safeguard against any spikes in power or noise (well unless a there was a lightning storm that struck your power lines )


----------



## Zalmann (Mar 24, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> See that chunky bit on the blue molex connector? Its sleeved, THAT is what i was talking about. If you have bad power quality, this is a good safeguard against any spikes in power or noise (well unless a there was a lightning storm that struck your power lines )



It is not for suppressing spikes, it is to suppress the high frequencies found on the MB from affecting the PSU and going into the home electrical system. Highly unlikely to be the cause of the problem(s).


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 24, 2007)

whoops. It might be the case though, you never know.


----------



## Zalmann (Mar 24, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> whoops. It might be the case though, you never know.



Well, I guess some strange things have happened to his PC so far... some very mysterious things...


----------



## x800professor (Mar 24, 2007)

Those are the cables.  I looked at mine and they have smaller things than that, but they are not totally absent.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 24, 2007)

Weird O_O your PC is infested with bad bad bad bad karma, what did you do to someone last week?


----------



## Zalmann (Mar 25, 2007)

x800professor said:


> Those are the cables.  I looked at mine and they have smaller things than that, but they are not totally absent.



Well there's our problem!!   Your case is infested by the 15 tenticled beast!!  

But jokes aside, that's one beastly PSU you have there, I love how many connections come with it.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 25, 2007)

Zalmann said:


> Well there's our problem!!   Your case is infested by the 15 tenticled beast!!
> 
> But jokes aside, that's one beastly PSU you have there, I love how many connections come with it.



Yep, that's one of the reasons I purchased it.  I'm just hoping that once I get all of my memory back and the 8800, everything works.  I wonder if nvidia will release anything in the next 3 months that would qualify for the step-up program...considering I purchased and EVGA (cheapest out there).


----------



## x800professor (Mar 25, 2007)

x800professor said:


> Yep, that's one of the reasons I purchased it.  I'm just hoping that once I get all of my memory back and the 8800, everything works.  I wonder if nvidia will release anything in the next 3 months that would qualify for the step-up program...considering I purchased and EVGA (cheapest out there).



I will keep you guys up to date on this.  The card comes in on Wednesday.  Hopefully I'm not writing about a dead 8800GTS in the next few weeks.  If I am, I'm going to lose my mind.  By the way, anybody know how to check the status of a corsair RMA?  I emailed them two days ago and then never got back to me.  Remember, I sent in 2 of the dead sticks that the computer gremlins killed.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 25, 2007)

Perhaps it's time for a different mobo as well?


----------



## x800professor (Mar 25, 2007)

erocker said:


> I have the exact same PSU Proffesor and no problems here.  Did you have a hard time getting the power connector into the video card?  I sure in the hell did.  Anyways I think your motherboard is junk.



One adapter refused to go in, so I used the other one and it went in.  Yes, I hate my motherboard, but I can't afford to just dump it.  I tried to get EVGA to give me my money back because it killed my ram but they told me that they would "take it to the next level" if the new one killed my new ram.  $700 in ram wasn't enough I guess.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 26, 2007)

Man... you would be better off with the DFI Infinity P965G.. IMHO, EVGA and other brands just relabel the motherboards with their own stickers T_T.


----------



## Zalmann (Mar 26, 2007)

DFI do make good stuff.... for the PC and hard core enthusiast that is. If you want something for the general every day user, go with Gigabyte or Asus.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 26, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Man... you would be better off with the DFI Infinity P965G.. IMHO, EVGA and other brands just relabel the motherboards with their own stickers T_T.



I realize that the Evga board is just an nvidia reference board....but it was supposed to be a GOOD reference board.  If I had known how much trouble this was going to be I would not have gone near this board.  I almost purchased a lan party back in the 939 days, but didn't have the money for a computer yet.  Too bad.  I would have probably have a 7900GT and a X2 4400+ on a lan party if I did have the money.  A lot less power, but at least it probably would have worked.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 26, 2007)

Got 2 gigs of my ram back.  They sent me dominator ram!  It's the same speed and all...but it has the dominator heat spreader.  Yay for better ram.


----------



## Zalmann (Mar 27, 2007)

Well, I guess that's one positive thing to take out of all of this....


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 27, 2007)

x800professor said:


> I realize that the Evga board is just an nvidia reference board....but it was supposed to be a GOOD reference board.  If I had known how much trouble this was going to be I would not have gone near this board.  I almost purchased a lan party back in the 939 days, but didn't have the money for a computer yet.  Too bad.  I would have probably have a 7900GT and a X2 4400+ on a lan party if I did have the money.  A lot less power, but at least it probably would have worked.



In this case Nvidia's reference board isnt great so yeah...


----------



## x800professor (Mar 27, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> In this case Nvidia's reference board isnt great so yeah...



It's great at first.  Overclocks well, has 2 true x16 slots, plus an extra x16 (x8 electrical) for a physics card.  Has just about everything imaginable, including a nifty LED post code analyzer.  The reviews were mostly great.  However...it goes nuts quickly.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 27, 2007)

Oh...my...god.  The 8800 is in.  The computer POSTs just fine.  It boots into windows.  However, I GET NO PICTURE!!!!!  I can hear windows starting up, but can't see anything.  I have an old CRT, so I have to use the adapter.  The monitor works fine when I connect it to my laptop.  When I connect to to either adapter in either port, it gives me no picture.  What....the...heck?!??!  Must...destroy...computer...


----------



## x800professor (Mar 28, 2007)

Wow.  Now it works.  I cleared the CMOS...nothing, turned it on and off about 5 times, nothing.  I pressed the power button on the motherboard...and the monitor fired right up.  Goofy board.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 28, 2007)

Ok, the 8800 is in and running.  The drivers are installed.  I'm not having any problems thus far.  Time to run oblivion and see what happens.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 28, 2007)

x800professor said:


> Ok, the 8800 is in and running.  The drivers are installed.  I'm not having any problems thus far.  Time to run oblivion and see what happens.



Smooth like butter with everything turned ALL THE WAY UP!!!  No artifacting, no crashing....YAY!  It does look different on the 8800 though.  It seems that the textures are smoother but less vibrant than they were on the x1950...interesting.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 28, 2007)

Testing time! (I realize that the original topic of this thread has nothing to do with this, but the regular readers know what is going on)







That's totally stock.  It beats the overclocked X1950XT by about 2400 3dmarks.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 28, 2007)

It ate the x1950XT for lunch in 06.






That's about a 36% increase in performance.  Freakin sweet!  AND IT IS STABLE!  I haven't purchased nvidia in a while...but if this remains this stable I'm switching companies.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 28, 2007)

Nah its just the fact that 680i is designed to destroy ATI GPUs.

You are one of the first people i have seen use 680i + an ATI GPU.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 28, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Nah its just the fact that 680i is designed to destroy ATI GPUs.
> 
> You are one of the first people i have seen use 680i + an ATI GPU.



This board seems designed to destroy everything it touches, not just ATI gpus.  What's funny is, I've NEVER had to RMA an nvidia GPU, but I have had to RMA every ATI GPU I have ever purchased at least once.  The x800 died immediately (part of a bad batch) and we all know what happened with the x1950xt.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 28, 2007)

>_>...

Nvidia is losing it T_T... they used to be great in the time of the 7800GTX series.... oh that pwned! Are they trying to monopolise? T_T.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 28, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> >_>...
> 
> Nvidia is losing it T_T... they used to be great in the time of the 7800GTX series.... oh that pwned! Are they trying to monopolise? T_T.



They have owned the top card for a long, long time.  ATI has never been number 1 since the release of the 7950GX2.  This says nothing for stability, just raw performance.  ATI is supposed to reclaim the lead with the R600...but I'll believe it when I see it, just like everything else.  Plus, I'm wondering what the 8800 ultra has in store.  I have this nice EVGA step-up program which I WILL use, so I'll have to see what I'll buy.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 28, 2007)

So prof, would you say the ATI or nVidia looks better, overall?


----------



## x800professor (Mar 28, 2007)

Wile E said:


> So prof, would you say the ATI or nVidia looks better, overall?



Honesty, after adjusting a few things, they look about the same.  The 8800 does a better job with shadows though.  They look more realistic on the 8800 than they did on the x1950XT using the same settings.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 28, 2007)

Everything seems reasonably stable still.  Vista doesn't seem to get along with games and the current nvidia drivers all that well, but I don't think it is hardware related.  I get freezes, but they are software freezes.  You know, go to change armor in Oblivion or increase an age in Age of Empires and it freezes.  Hardware freezes are usually random, whereas software freezes usually occur when you try to do something.  I just have two things to wonder about now.  I'm wondering if I should do a clean install and put XP back and I'm wondering what monitor to get.    I've been trying to figure that one out for a long time.  22" LCDs look pretty nice right now because they are right in my price range.  Something like $280-325.  The 8800 should be able to handle just about anything at 1680x1050.  Plus, I'm only keeping this card for a couple of months and then I'm taking advantage of the step-up program, so I know I'll be fine.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 29, 2007)

I can't take vista anymore.  The drivers for the 8800 are horrible.  It's a clean install for XP time.  I put windows and only windows on drive c, so I won't lose much aside from the registry.  There's not much important in that anyway.  Next up...to figure out what monitor I want.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 29, 2007)

How about this for a monitor? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001096

It's an 8bit panel (16.7M colors as opposed to 16.2 on a 6bit), so more natural colors. Great response time, which is unusual for an 8bit panel. 22" 1680x1050. It also come in 20", and 14440x900 19". I've have my eyes on the 19", personally.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 29, 2007)

Wile E said:


> How about this for a monitor? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001096
> 
> It's an 8bit panel (16.7M colors as opposed to 16.2 on a 6bit), so more natural colors. Great response time, which is unusual for an 8bit panel. 22" 1680x1050. It also come in 20", and 14440x900 19". I've have my eyes on the 19", personally.



Do you know if that is a true 8 bit or a 6 bit panel dithered to 16.7 million colors?


----------



## x800professor (Mar 30, 2007)

I'm starting to wonder about this card.  My system is totally stable, meaning memtest and prime95 never crash plus CPU load is 54c and my GPU load is 65c when overclocked.  However, I never play a game without a crash.  It just suddenly goes black and restarts the computer.  Are the 8800 drivers THAT bad??


----------



## x800professor (Mar 30, 2007)

Ah nevermind.  It was the processor.  It didn't like running at 3.6ghz when the room is 15 degrees hotter than it was a month ago.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 30, 2007)

Downclocking the CPU didn't hurt me much because I upped the FSB and tightened the timings  on my RAM.  Broke 10,000 on 3dmark06 even with the downclocked CPU!


----------



## Wile E (Mar 30, 2007)

x800professor said:


> Do you know if that is a true 8 bit or a 6 bit panel dithered to 16.7 million colors?


From what I've been told, they're true 8bit panels, I'll try to find out for sure, tho. I 'm not 100% on that.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 30, 2007)

Btw X800Prof, DX10 API makes all games look better regardless of what GPU you are using.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 30, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Btw X800Prof, DX10 API makes all games look better regardless of what GPU you are using.



I did an image quality comparison on 3dmark05 since I had taken an IQ shot with the x1950XT.  Honestly, the 8800 does a better job with shadows, but the image is slightly darker.  The x1950XT did produce slightly more vivid images.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 30, 2007)

x800professor said:


> I did an image quality comparison on 3dmark05 since I had taken an IQ shot with the x1950XT.  Honestly, the 8800 does a better job with shadows, but the image is slightly darker.  The x1950XT did produce slightly more vivid images.



By the way, so no one goes on the attack, I'm no ATI fanboy.  I hated that X1950XT with a passion...but it did produce vivid images.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 31, 2007)

Found this on EVGA's website

Important message regarding memory and the EVGA 680i motherboard

NVIDIA has investigated end user reports of high performance DIMM failures on the NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI-based platforms. During this process we have been in close contact with DIMM manufacturers and the DRAM manufacturers they rely on to understand the failure scenario. By working with our community, we believe that the observed failure is a breakdown of the silicon in the DRAM caused by the prolonged application of 2.4V on the voltage rails of the DIMMs.

NVIDIA’s own internal testing has observed this failure on multiple motherboards using different chipsets (both NVIDIA and non-NVIDIA chipsets). This issue is not directly related to motherboards using the NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI MCP or other chipsets.

If you are using this type of memory and are experiencing this issue, NVIDIA recommends contacting your memory manufacturer or system manufacturer for additional information and warranty information.


That's funny, considering my ram died at 2.2v.  My ram is rated at 2.2v.


----------



## x800professor (Mar 31, 2007)

I can tell you one thing about the 8800 that I hate.  It produces an insane amount of heat.  The heat coming off the top (the top when it is installed, really the bottom) is incredible.  It heats everything else in the case up by about 8-12c.  It turns a 23c room into a 31c room in about 10 minutes.  I'm thinking about moving it down to the second x16 slot and sticking one of those PCI slot coolers above it.  That'll help the system heat...but not my room.


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 2, 2007)

... Thats what you get for using a huge slab of silicon... seriously, Nvidia should improve architecture and not shove more and more transistors onto a bigger slab of silicon. 31*C rooms are unpleasant... lol... btw slot coolers are so inefective.. fyi. I tried what you tried once and there was 0% improvement. Try installing it under your card as there are vents on the cooler (which shouldnt be there). Like get the short ones. Is it noisy though?


----------



## x800professor (Apr 2, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> ... Thats what you get for using a huge slab of silicon... seriously, Nvidia should improve architecture and not shove more and more transistors onto a bigger slab of silicon. 31*C rooms are unpleasant... lol... btw slot coolers are so inefective.. fyi. I tried what you tried once and there was 0% improvement. Try installing it under your card as there are vents on the cooler (which shouldnt be there). Like get the short ones. Is it noisy though?



At least it is perfectly stable.  I don't care if my room turns into a sauna as long as it is stable.  Plus, I'm not keeping this card for very long.  Good old step up.  Should be something out there worth trading for by the end of three months.


----------



## x800professor (Apr 4, 2007)

Wile E said:


> From what I've been told, they're true 8bit panels, I'll try to find out for sure, tho. I 'm not 100% on that.



All I can find on that monitor is that it is TN+Film.  I prefer MVA or IPS for image quality.  I know they aren't as fast, but today they can run without significant ghosting.


The computer is still perfectly stable!!!!!!  That should be an absolute shock to anyone who has followed this thread.


----------



## Wile E (Apr 5, 2007)

Yeah, I can't find much else on them either, Prof. I think I'm going for the 19" here in about 2-3 weeks.(If work comes thru on our bonuses) If you want, I'll post my opinion on it in here if/when I get it. It has to be better than the generic 17" CRT on my pc now. lol. But I also have 17" and 20" Apple widescreens to compare it to.

And congrats on the compy being stable, finally. lol. Everytime this thread pops back up in my subscriptions, I wonder what broke on you this time. lol


----------



## x800professor (Apr 5, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Yeah, I can't find much else on them either, Prof. I think I'm going for the 19" here in about 2-3 weeks.(If work comes thru on our bonuses) If you want, I'll post my opinion on it in here if/when I get it. It has to be better than the generic 17" CRT on my pc now. lol. But I also have 17" and 20" Apple widescreens to compare it to.
> 
> And congrats on the compy being stable, finally. lol. Everytime this thread pops back up in my subscriptions, I wonder what broke on you this time. lol



I'm using a generic 17" CRT that my girlfriend's brother bought at a yardsale for $10 about 2 years ago.  He gave it to me when my old Sony trinitron died.  I tossed it aside when I bought my 22" P1220 Profession CRT of awesomeness.  That beautiful thing is still at home and I'm away at college with the old, scratched up, 17" pile o junk.  The previous owner of this thing actually tried to fix a broken base with some 1/4 inch wood screws...wow.  I have it propped up with the back support from my dearly departed trinitron.

As far as my computer goes, I'm in computer heaven.  Everything works perfectly.  I can break 10,000 in 3dmark06 with my CPU turned down by over 300mhz because of the season change.  Supreme commander runs like a dream on the highest settings.  C&C 3 works perfectly on ultra high...but feels like Battle for Middle Earth II (good) with no Middle Earth (bad).  I now have two copies of Dark Messiah of Might and Magic...because EVGA sent me one because I had so many problems with the 680i and one came with the 8800.  Not something I'd usually buy...but free is free.  I'm just keeping this thread updated with the progress of this computer just to let everyone know how well the computer from hell is working.  Newegg has the x1950XT...but I'm not sure what they are doing with it.  They gave me a $25 credit.  They're probably going to send me a brand new one that I have no use for.  I'll probably put it on Ebay.  Of course, I'll have 2 gigs of extra ram and an X1950XT...I could almost build another computer and get rid of the old x800 computer at home....nah, that would cost more money that I don't have.  Ebay it is.


----------



## x800professor (Apr 11, 2007)

Ok guys, it's been over 2 weeks without a single problem.  The 8800GTS is running like a champ without a single hiccup.  Both X1950XTs crapped out much quicker.  So, now its time to figure out what the heck happened.  Some said it was my PSU.  My PSU is getting along just fine with this little power sucker I have in there right now, so that pretty much rules that one out.  Some said it was my board because it had built in anti-ati gremlins.  I doubt that.  What killed the X1950XTs?  Remember, one ran on the first 680i and the other ran on the second.  The second board has been good to my dominator ram.  It's running at 942 4-4-4-10 @2.2v without a problem.  What went wrong?  Are Sapphire X1950XTs just that prone to to early death?


----------



## technicks (Apr 11, 2007)

Well i am glad for you that the problems were the card obviously. 
But i want to ask you something.

I have a Sapphire X1950 XT since a week or two now. I read a part of this thread and i saw that your card was making weird noises.
Mine does to. Do you think this has anything to do with the card going to fail?
I ran 3dmark 06 today with my cpu @2.6 and gpu stock and got 4750.  
Is this a normal score?

Thanks


----------



## Jawbreaker (Apr 12, 2007)

Hey guys, I also have the Sapphire X1950XT , and mine makes a clicking noise..Is this similar to what your experiencing?  I've been trying tof igure out what it is and why..And I've narrowed it down a little...So if you wouldnt mind, tell my all the symptoms your having..Maybe it'll help me figure it out.....And btw, ALOT of people are having this same issue..
                                                                Jaws


----------



## x800professor (Apr 12, 2007)

technicks said:


> Well i am glad for you that the problems were the card obviously.
> But i want to ask you something.
> 
> I have a Sapphire X1950 XT since a week or two now. I read a part of this thread and i saw that your card was making weird noises.
> ...




My weird noises were the insane fan.  You don't have that fan anymore.  I was getting over 6500 in 06, but that was with more, and faster ram and a significantly more powerful CPU.  4750 seems low.  06 should be GPU dependent enough to not bottleneck so much.  Make sure you are switching out of 3dmode when you run 06.  Just download rivatuner and leave the environment monitors running when you run 06.  The speeds may not be switching.


----------



## x800professor (Apr 12, 2007)

So no one has any idea why 2 X1950XTs kicked the bucket?  Just bad luck?  



By the way, I'm probably getting a new monitor after the replacement X1950XT sells on ebay...I'm still trying to figure out if that monitor suggested is 8 or 6 bit.  It's TN...which usually means 6...but who knows.

Also...anybody have this monitor?  I'm not big on using brands I'm not familiar with, but it does have good reviews.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824252008


----------



## Wile E (Apr 13, 2007)

I know somebody on another forum that went thru 3 of those with RMA, Prof. Based on his experiences with it, I wouldn't buy it. And about the Samsung monitor, sorry, but I won't be able to give a review on it. I decided to go with the model below it, and use the extra money for a new mobo. If this CRT didn't always give me a headache, i would've just saved for a couple more weeks to get both, but I really can't stand this thing any more. I've reached my limit. lol.

Here's a list of all the 16.7m color Widescreen panels on Newegg. Perhaps you can find something in there:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...eValue=3019:19996&PropertyCodeValue=1058:9121


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## x800professor (Apr 13, 2007)

Wile E said:


> I know somebody on another forum that went thru 3 of those with RMA, Prof. Based on his experiences with it, I wouldn't buy it. And about the Samsung monitor, sorry, but I won't be able to give a review on it. I decided to go with the model below it, and use the extra money for a new mobo. If this CRT didn't always give me a headache, i would've just saved for a couple more weeks to get both, but I really can't stand this thing any more. I've reached my limit. lol.
> 
> Here's a list of all the 16.7m color Widescreen panels on Newegg. Perhaps you can find something in there:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...eValue=3019:19996&PropertyCodeValue=1058:9121



Yeah, I'm done with ATI for a while.  The x1950XT is history as soon as the auction ends.  I like my 8800GTS.  Of course, it might be gone close to the end up the step up program if something interesting comes up.  Anyway, yeah, I've looked through newegg's 16.7m color monitors.  It rarely tells me if it is true 8 bit or just dithered 6 bit, which sends me to google...which doesn't always help.


----------



## Wile E (Apr 13, 2007)

erocker said:


> Scepter just came out with a 1080p 22" HDCP monitor for 250.00.  That is a good deal, and every Scepter product Iv'e seen looks great.


I only have experience with one Sceptre monitor. My dad owns a 19" (standard format). It's proably 2 years old now, doesn't have any stuck pixels or defects to speak of, and the image quality is good for lcds of that time, but it has an unacceptable (to me) amount of backlight bleed on the outside edges. Drives me crazy.


----------



## x800professor (Apr 13, 2007)

erocker said:


> Scepter just came out with a 1080p 22" HDCP monitor for 250.00.  That is a good deal, and every Scepter product Iv'e seen looks great.
> Stay away from x2gen.



You mean this one?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824112009

That's not really 1080p.  It's 1050p.  1680x1050 is far from the 1920x1080 that is true 16x9 1080p.  So, their advertising is a bit on the deceptive side.  Still, it's a decent monitor for the price.



			
				Wile E said:
			
		

> I only have experience with one Sceptre monitor. My dad owns a 19" (standard format). It's proably 2 years old now, doesn't have any stuck pixels or defects to speak of, and the image quality is good for lcds of that time, but it has an unacceptable (to me) amount of backlight bleed on the outside edges. Drives me crazy.



I hate light bleed.  I hate native resolutions.  I hate LCDs.  But I want a _new_ monitor.  LCDs all have some light bleed, but some are really bad.  I'll have to wait to see some reviews of that new monitor since it is brand new.


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## x800professor (Apr 15, 2007)

x800professor said:


> You mean this one?
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824112009
> 
> ...




It is so difficult to pick out a monitor.  I HATE dead pixels.  I am a bit of a perfectionist...so if I see a dead pixel...ANYWHERE on my screen, it will drive me insane.  I'm selling the x1950XT to the entire planet on ebay (in other words, I'm shipping worldwide).  Hopefully someone from Australia will give me something like $200 for it.  Then I'll be able to afford a monitor...but I can't pick one out!

By the way, I ran 3dmark06 with 8x AA and still scored 6675 on my 8800@613/1003.  That means it can do at 8x what the X1950XT could do at 0x.  Freakin' sweet.


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## tkpenalty (Apr 15, 2007)

u live in australia? 

$200 AUD = HOLY SHIT GIMME URL.


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## Wile E (Apr 15, 2007)

I think he means 200usd, tk.


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## x800professor (Apr 15, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> u live in australia?
> 
> $200 AUD = HOLY SHIT GIMME URL.



It's on ebay, not hard to find.  It is USD...$150 right now.  So about $180 AUD.  

http://cgi.ebay.com/ATI-Radeon-X1950XT-NEW-256MB-HDCP-with-Zalman-VF-900CU_W0QQitemZ200099057531QQihZ010QQcategoryZ80190QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'm even tossing in that VF-900cu to see if someone else has better luck with it.

Oh yeah, I'm in the US.  Shipping to Australia isn't cheap - $22.75 US.


----------



## x800professor (Apr 15, 2007)

x800professor said:


> It's on ebay, not hard to find.  It is USD...$150 right now.  So about $180 AUD.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ATI-Radeon-X1950XT-NEW-256MB-HDCP-with-Zalman-VF-900CU_W0QQitemZ200099057531QQihZ010QQcategoryZ80190QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> 
> ...



Holy crap!  I looked up how much an X1950XT costs in Australia...$350AUD!!!!!  That is nuts.  That $22.75 isn't so bad considering that!


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## tkpenalty (Apr 15, 2007)

Yes...and its not really old rite? I would want it... but i got an X1950PRO.


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## x800professor (Apr 15, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Yes...and its not really old rite? I would want it... but i got an X1950PRO.



The x1950XT is basically the step up from the pro.  Mine isn't old at all.  It's the replacement from newegg.  So it is brand new.  Just got it the day I listed the card.

http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=467&card2=466

That's the comparison between the X1950XT and the X1950PRO.  In more shader intensive games, the XT should smash the PRO.  Evidently, games are supposed to become more shader intensive...but that's just speculation.


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 15, 2007)

I know that. $180AUD is freaking cheap... Why dont you keep it for a new PC, like for lan party/other purposes?


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## technicks (Apr 15, 2007)

Why do the shipping charges for worldwide are rediculous high. Over 100 dollar to ship.  
I don't get that. I shipped a card to the US for $35,00. Arrived in 8 days.


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## x800professor (Apr 15, 2007)

technicks said:


> Why do the shipping charges for worldwide are rediculous high. Over 100 dollar to ship.
> I don't get that. I shipped a card to the US for $35,00. Arrived in 8 days.



That's expedited shipping.  Super fast.  The other one is the cheapest I could find.  I'll see if there's something better.


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## x800professor (Apr 15, 2007)

I just noticed that the first bidder on my X1950XT is from Australia.  I figure someone from there would pay $200-250 or so even with the $25 in shipping.  Sweet sweet land down under.


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## x800professor (Apr 16, 2007)

This is odd....when watching a video on windows media player or encoding a movie for a DVD, it distorts the image across the bottom.  It's just a line on the bottom that is not displaying correctly.  It did it on the DVD that I burned yesterday and it does it when playing something on windows media player.  Wonder what is doing that...


----------



## pt (Apr 16, 2007)

x800professor said:


> This is odd....when watching a video on windows media player or encoding a movie for a DVD, it distorts the image across the bottom.  It's just a line on the bottom that is not displaying correctly.  It did it on the DVD that I burned yesterday and it does it when playing something on windows media player.  Wonder what is doing that...



suggestion: 
get a cave on the desert far away from computers...
you're the guy with more problems on is pc i have ever know


----------



## x800professor (Apr 16, 2007)

pt said:


> suggestion:
> get a cave on the desert far away from computers...
> you're the guy with more problems on is pc i have ever know



The problems I have had with this computer are amazing.  This computer is the devil, I swear.  I think I may have figured out that problem...it was something to do with an decoder.  I don't care what it is, as long as it isn't hardware related.


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## x800professor (Apr 21, 2007)

Well, it sold for $183.50.  I was hoping it would go for a bit more.  Oh well.  Well, now I'm really looking for a monitor.  I want 8-bit and HDCP.  I like the 22" monitors...and I don't.  I like the 20.1" LCDs because they have a really nice pixel pitch.  Anyone have this monitor?  It's the  SCEPTRE X20WC-Gamer Black 20.1".


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16824112003


----------



## x800professor (Apr 22, 2007)

Oh yeah, the 8800's can handle 1680x1050 right out of the box, right ( I mean once I have installed the drivers for the monitor)?  Or do I have to set it up as a custom resolution?


----------



## Wile E (Apr 22, 2007)

I think they should prof. It's a pretty standard resolution nowadays.


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## x800professor (May 2, 2007)

*Devil computer strikes again!*

The gremlins are back.  Now, it posts just fine, but then the monitor shuts off and it stops booting when it starts to load windows.  If I try it 7 or 8 times, it will get into windows.  If I leave it for a while, it will freeze.  If the screen is displaying something, it will freeze and continue to display that image forever.  If the monitor is in standby, it will stay there forever and not come out of standby.  It passes superpi, memtest, everest stability test for hours.  I can run 3dmark06 over and over again.  Changing everything back to stock speed and voltage helps nothing.  My SMART readouts are all normal.  It seems to only have problems once windows starts (or begins to start).  Think I should just repair windows and see what happens?  Other odd things that have been around since the first day I got the replacement motherboard: It thinks my E6600 is a 1.8GHz, 800MHz FSB processor, I cannot disable speedstep, even though it is off in the bios, and this: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Evaluation?  That's interesting.  Of course, that is the BIOS...who knows.

I'm using this thread because everyone who has read it already knows the story of the devil computer.


----------



## technicks (May 2, 2007)

Your pc has a demon inside. Try to get a priest and let him throw the evil out.


----------



## x800professor (May 2, 2007)

technicks said:


> Your pc has a demon inside. Try to get a priest and let him throw the evil out.



Yes...yes it does.  I can diagnose just about anything.  But...not overheating, passing prime95, memtest and every other kind of test I can toss at it...and then suddenly freezing for no reason!?  Must...kill...computer.


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## x800professor (May 2, 2007)

erocker said:


> Proff. you really need to dump that mobo all together.  Don't sell it, burn it.   Imo those mobo's are the worst pieces of junk on the market.  And sure, I've heard of them working correctly... for a while, then they stop.  It will solve all of your problems.



Unless you want to start a "get rid of the gremlins" fund, I don't have the money for it.  If I had it to do all over again, I would not buy this pile of junk, obviously.  It does have a lifetime warranty.  Plus, they cross ship and pay for postage both ways.  The only annoying this is taking everything apart AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN.


----------



## Wile E (May 2, 2007)

More dying ram, perhaps? That'll cause random weirdness.


----------



## x800professor (May 3, 2007)

Wile E said:


> More dying ram, perhaps? That'll cause random weirdness.



...maybe, but who knows?  Memtest is useless.  It seems to be fine for about 3 hours now and then just crashes for no reason.


----------



## Ketxxx (May 3, 2007)

erocker said:


> Proff. you really need to dump that mobo all together.  Don't sell it, burn it.   Imo those mobo's are the worst pieces of junk on the market.  And sure, I've heard of them working correctly... for a while, then they stop.  It will solve all of your problems.



Ditto on this, EVGA 680i boards are really, really bad. One of the more extreme cases I heard not very long ago involved the mobo not only frying its own DIMM slots with a standard voltage of 2.4v for the particular modules that were in it, but the board also decided it wanted to partially melt the DRAM PCB. What a wonderful board.


----------



## x800professor (May 3, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> Ditto on this, EVGA 680i boards are really, really bad. One of the more extreme cases I heard not very long ago involved the mobo not only frying its own DIMM slots with a standard voltage of 2.4v for the particular modules that were in it, but the board also decided it wanted to partially melt the DRAM PCB. What a wonderful board.



I have about $15.  That presents a problem.  I hate the board...but not much I can do.  I hadn't built a new computer for myself since athlon XPs were new (XP 1800+ originally).  I finally had the money...and I got this.  Oh well, I'm getting a job this summer.  That should get me the money for something.


----------



## Ketxxx (May 3, 2007)

Its a little underhanded, but flash the BIOS with the latest official available, then fleabay it. Use aquired funds to buy a better mobo


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## x800professor (May 3, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> Its a little underhanded, but flash the BIOS with the latest official available, then fleabay it. Use aquired funds to buy a better mobo



It is flashed to the latest.  I figured that if I really got sick of it, I would RMA it, then sell the new board.  It wouldn't cost me anything, I would sell a new board, and I have to rebuild the whole freaking thing again anyway.  

However, after fiddling with some bios settings...it seems to be working.  It's running at 3.6Ghz (400x9) @ 1.44v.  The ram is running @ 1100 5-5-5-14@2.2v.  I likes running at 3.6 more than it likes running @ 2.6, go figure.


----------



## x800professor (May 3, 2007)

I do not get this thing.  When it starts, it's fine.  It never starts on the first try.  It first restarts immediately after post with a quick series of erratic beeps, then it gets to the windows boot screen before restart, then it gets to the desktop and freezes, then it boots all the way on the next try.  After that, it is fine.  It will go through 3dmark06...and I mean all the way through, every test selected.  It is fine on prime95, memtest and the everest stability test.  It is fine all day.  Then I shut it down at night, and the same problems greet me in the morning.  Same series of restarts.  It's like an old car that hates to start.    It also doesn't matter how much I overclock it, because it does the same thing on stock settings.  This computer is possessed.


----------



## Ketxxx (May 3, 2007)

Sounds like some advanced latencies may be too tight, theres nothing you can do about this - their pre-programmed into the BIOS code.


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## x800professor (May 4, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> Sounds like some advanced latencies may be too tight, theres nothing you can do about this - their pre-programmed into the BIOS code.



I left the computer at home for the weekend, so I can't mess with it until Monday.  However, I received two of my memory sticks back from RMA today...pulled one out...and discovered that the heat spreader was not properly stuck to the memory!  It fell off immediately.   I swear....

Well, I got my Sceptre monitor...now that thing is amazingly great.  Glossy MVA 20.1" for around $200 after rebate.  Goodbye 17" CRT!

Next...get this....I can get that computer to boot just fine.  Only one way to do it though.  Run it at 1.2GHz!  I have to cut my core 2 in half to get it to work!  I wonder...just in case it has something to do with the CPU...where do I go to RMA an intel CPU still under warranty?  By the way, the core 2 @ 1.2 can do pi to 1m in about 42 seconds.  I'd rather have my usual 14.2 seconds though.


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## x800professor (May 8, 2007)

680i #3 = dead

I have to wait for the next one before I can do anything.  Let's recap:

3 dead motherboards
4 dead sticks of ram
2 dead x1950XTs

This is the build from hell.  Now, normally, I would say it was the PSU murdering everything.  However, the CPU has been just fine throughout it all.  The two dominator sticks have been in there for over a month without an issue.  The 8800 has been in there for over a month without a problem.  Gremlins I say.


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## pt (May 8, 2007)

i think you have a bnad aura like me


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## x800professor (May 9, 2007)

The tech support first told me that it was obviously a crappy motherboard, until he realized that I was calling about the EVGA 680i and not my EVGA 8800GTS.  Then he told me that it must be something that was in there since the first build.  Then he couldn't explain why the PSU didn't kill the CPU...or why it has played nice with my 8800 for so long, yet killed both X1950XTs within two weeks.  He knew what it was, considering the fact that he told me the problem was an evil motherboard.  He thought I told him I had an ASUS motherboard.  If this fourth 680i dies, I'm screaming at a supervisor until I get a refund.  Unless of course, my hard drive or DVD burner is killing all my components :.


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## Wile E (May 9, 2007)

Man prof, with all this hassle you've been having, I would just go without my main rig for a few weeks, get the rma back, sell it, and buy something else.


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## x800professor (May 10, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Man prof, with all this hassle you've been having, I would just go without my main rig for a few weeks, get the rma back, sell it, and buy something else.



Or set it on fire and charge admission.  Then use the proceeds to buy a new computer.  I'm sure amd fanboys would pay to watch this build burn.


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## x800professor (May 13, 2007)

I just noticed something.  The AR versions of the board (what I started with) had lifetime warranties.  The new ones, the A1 versions, have one-year warranties.  That’s funny.  They quickly got rid of the lifetime warranty on this pile of crap.  What a surprise.


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## Jawbreaker (May 14, 2007)

Hard to outsmart A good Marketing Major. lol


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## x800professor (May 15, 2007)

Jawbreaker said:


> Hard to outsmart A good Marketing Major. lol



Yes, but they will honor my lifetime warranty.  They even pay shipping every time the stupid board dies...or kills something.  At least this summer I'll have a decent secondary rig to hold me over if this thing craps out again.  Right now all I have is a four year old laptop that I'm using to type this.


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## x800professor (May 16, 2007)

Installed the new 680i.  The 8800 is dead.  I'm currently talking to newegg about the PSU.


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## Wile E (May 16, 2007)

Jeez prof. I hope you get this sorted. The psu is the only thing I can think of that can cause all this.


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## pt (May 16, 2007)

8800 also dead?
do you live near a giant magnet or something?


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## pt (May 16, 2007)

pt said:


> 8800 also dead?
> do you live near a giant magnet or something?



also check my sg, too see if that's the prob


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## x800professor (May 16, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Jeez prof. I hope you get this sorted. The psu is the only thing I can think of that can cause all this.



I just don't get why it hasn't killed the CPU.  The old motherboard refused to post at all, now the new one will post just fine and get into windows...but with no video.  There's never any video...at any stage of post.  I think I'm going to drag the gigantic thing (armors are huge) back to my normal home (as opposed to college) this weekend and try it out with the X1950PRO I ordered for my other computer.  Of course, I'll only do that for a second because I don't want to kill that too. I'm not going to try the 8800 with the other computer because the PSU probably won't be able to handle it...and I'm shipping it out tomorrow on RMA.  I went to wal-mart to get a PCI video card in the meantime, but they were out.

I think it's about time to ask the mods to rename this thread "My journey through computer hell".


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## tkpenalty (May 16, 2007)

What? YOUR 8800 DIED? ....

Well refund it and get yourself a HD2900XT for the same price 8)

(Looks into the future and sees that his 9900GTX dies as well, then the HD3000 dies as well, his Core 2 Nethalhaem dies as well, the Dominator XXXXXXX dies and he gives up on PCs, then he gets a new car and the turbo dies, with the crankshaft then spinning on itself, finally the exaust manifold breaks off the car)


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## Wile E (May 16, 2007)

The cpu not dying from a faulty psu is strange, but in all fairness, stranger things have happened (and to you, no less. lol). Maybe the mobo's voltage filtering is just better on the cpu than the other parts? I dunno, but I really hope you get everything sorted. I would've fixed mine with a hammer well before this point. lol


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## x800professor (May 16, 2007)

Wile E said:


> The cpu not dying from a faulty psu is strange, but in all fairness, stranger things have happened (and to you, no less. lol). Maybe the mobo's voltage filtering is just better on the cpu than the other parts? I dunno, but I really hope you get everything sorted. I would've fixed mine with a hammer well before this point. lol



Hulk smash!

Anyway...I have a wal-mart x1300 PCI in here now, and it's running just fine.  This new motherboard at least knows that an E6600 is 2.4Ghz and not 1.8 like the old one.  I'm starting to wonder if it was the PSU or the motherboard that killed my beautiful 8800.  The motherboard started acting strange and a few days later the 8800 kicked it.  I'm reallllllllly sick of this

The 8800GTS is a 320, and it's too late to get a refund unless it is out of stock when it arrives in California.  So, no buying a 2900XT.

I bet this x1300 will crack 20,000 in 3dmark06...no doubt.

edit:

I ran 3dmark03 and scored 2541...better than my old FX5500 at least.

more edit:

Some overclocking and I hit 2729...yay.

editgasm:

1304 in 3dmark05.  Oh yeah...just like my 8800.

edit some more:

702 in 3dmark06.  Just behind my 8800!  right...


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## x800professor (May 16, 2007)

Ok, after the RMA is done with, I should get a full refund considering the fact that PSU has been pulled from newegg.  I need a decent PSU that can handle my system and won't kill it.  Any suggestions?  Please, don't suggest anything that costs more than $150.


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## Wile E (May 17, 2007)

Corsair 620HX http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139002

Little bit over, but a $20 MIR.


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## xnox202 (May 17, 2007)

x800, after I caught your thread at the mainpage of the site (@ New Forum Posts), I've clicked the link to your thread, then to page one, and then went through all of the 22 pages of your thread, then prepare to finally have a time to spend more than 2 hours of reading everything till the last page. 

Lastly? Seriously I can't imagine the things you've been through. Sure hell of a nightmare and hassle. Some parts of the thread cracked me up too while I was reading it roll. Oh, and though, wish that you had better luck too. The final thing that really made me smacked my own head was the 8800 being dead.  Man, and I thought that you should get a better mobo or something. But see if the PSU replacement clears the cloud. Good luck!

Oh, time for dinner. 8.13PM here. *goes for dinner*


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## x800professor (May 17, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Corsair 620HX http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139002
> 
> Little bit over, but a $20 MIR.



Out of stock.

Newegg told me that there is some sort of block on that old order and no RMAs can be issued until the supervisor clears it.  I've had two people contact this supervisor over the last two days and he still hasn't gotten back to me.



> x800, after I caught your thread at the mainpage of the site (@ New Forum Posts), I've clicked the link to your thread, then to page one, and then went through all of the 22 pages of your thread, then prepare to finally have a time to spend more than 2 hours of reading everything till the last page.
> 
> Lastly? Seriously I can't imagine the things you've been through. Sure hell of a nightmare and hassle. Some parts of the thread cracked me up too while I was reading it (). Oh, and though, wish that you had better luck too. The final thing that really made me smacked my own head was the 8800 being dead. Man, and I thought that you should get a better mobo or something. But see if the PSU replacement clears the cloud. Good luck!
> 
> Oh, time for dinner. 8.13PM here. *goes for dinner*



Someday a movie shall be made.  It will involve gremlins and minions of Satan attacking my computer.  Of course, according to EVGA, they are getting in through my DVD drive, so that is where the portal to hell must be closed.


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## x800professor (May 18, 2007)

Yay!  Newegg cleared the hold on that order and gave me a free shipping label!  Well, now it's time to shop for a new PSU...


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## x800professor (May 19, 2007)

x800professor said:


> Yay!  Newegg cleared the hold on that order and gave me a free shipping label!  Well, now it's time to shop for a new PSU...



What do you guys think of this PSU?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817128008


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## Wile E (May 19, 2007)

It seems pretty good. I don't know much about Hiper tho. If I did the math correctly, it can do 56A on the 12v rails, according to the combined 12v wattage rating of 672 on their website.


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## x800professor (May 26, 2007)

Remember how I said I sold the X1950XT replacement I got from newegg on ebay?  Well, I just got an email from the buyer...it died!  Those things are garbage.


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## DOM (May 26, 2007)

what brand was it mines still going strong {knock on wood}


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## x800professor (May 26, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> what brand was it mines still going strong {knock on wood}



Sapphire.  The biggest but certainly not the best ATI brand.


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## tkpenalty (May 26, 2007)

Sapphire = death is imminent!!!


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## DOM (May 26, 2007)

Can you get him another one or he's screwed im glad I didnt get a Sapphire


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## x800professor (May 26, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> Can you get him another one or he's screwed im glad I didnt get a Sapphire



He can get another one through sapphire.  I'll figure out a way to get him a new one if that doesn't work out.


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## DOM (May 26, 2007)

What about fropm Newegg ? OH yea why did you get a 1950Pro ?? Was it for another rig ?


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## x800professor (May 26, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> What about fropm Newegg ? OH yea why did you get a 1950Pro ?? Was it for another rig ?



If sapphire doesn't work out, I'll have him send the card to newegg.  

The x1950PRO is for my home rig.  The 8800GTS is my college rig.  The home rig is as follows:

X2 3600+ @ 2.69GHz (until I get better cooling)
2 Gigs Dominator 1066C5
MSI X1950PRO 512
DFI Infinity Ultra II M2

I'm using the home rig right now because I am home...and the college rig is down.


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## DOM (May 26, 2007)

oh yeah the mobo died again right nice back up


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## tkpenalty (May 26, 2007)

Wow... u are having drab luck with ur EVGA 680i... try going for the Albatron 680i...


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## Batou1986 (May 26, 2007)

if i may suggest 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256017 

best damn component in my system and its dead silent

and its got 8 pin pci e for that hd2900xtx


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## tkpenalty (May 26, 2007)

Might I scream OVERKILL! 600W is more than enough these days...


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## Batou1986 (May 26, 2007)

yea it is over kill but hell i wont have to buy a new psu in the next 10 years


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## x800professor (May 26, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Might I scream OVERKILL! 600W is more than enough these days...



Not for a quad FX system...which I don't have.  Those things can suck down well over 500w.  Stick two 2900XTs in there...and 600w PSU goes down the drain.  Well...I don't have those either.


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## tkpenalty (May 26, 2007)

x800professor said:


> Not for a quad FX system...which I don't have.  Those things can suck down well over 500w.  Stick two 2900XTs in there...and 600w PSU goes down the drain.  Well...I don't have those either.



I should have went for a NEOHE 430W.. my system uses 295W with one of those Kill a watt thingies


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## x800professor (May 26, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> I should have went for a NEOHE 430W.. my system uses 295W with one of those Kill a watt thingies



Hmm...I want one of those.  They aren't that expensive...maybe I'll get one.


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## Wile E (May 27, 2007)

I need to get one too. I really want to know what this 2900 draws. Wouldn't mind doing a back to back comparison between the old X1800 and the 2900.


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