# Help OC Ryzen 5 3600



## WatEagle (Jan 15, 2020)

Hi, as title I would like an advice on how to overclock more my cpu if it is possible. Now i'm at 4.2 Ghz on 1.3v.  My mobo is the Msi b450 tomahawk max, running the latest bios. For the cooling I have an Arctic freezer 33 esport.

Now I'm fine with the results I get, temps are fine in gaming and stress test, except prime95 where I reach about 85C. How can I push it more?


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## Zach_01 (Jan 15, 2020)

A screenshot of HWiNFO64 during that 85C?

This kind:


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## WatEagle (Jan 16, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> A screenshot of HWiNFO64 during that 85C?
> 
> This kind:
> View attachment 142325


As I get home I'll post



WatEagle said:


> As I get home I'll post





here it is what you requested


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## Zach_01 (Jan 17, 2020)

You know you exceeding almost all silicon limits of the CPU right?

PPT: 88W - 99!
TDC: 60A - 60
EDC: 90A - 114!

I’m not sure how healthy that is for the longevity of the CPU...


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## Xzibit (Jan 17, 2020)

Speak up. I don't think he can hear you over the cpu fan close to 3k rpm


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## tabascosauz (Jan 17, 2020)

I mean, it's pretty simple...you're running fixed clocks with presumably high LLC. If it isn't stable at that voltage, it isn't stable. If it is, it is. There's not much more to it...if you want to go further, dial up the Vcore if you can handle the heat, but judging from the temps I think not.

All-core 4.2 @ a hair under 1.3v. You're treading on thin ice there if you're running it day in and day out at those settings and benching it all the time. Go past 1.3V and I can't say if your chip will still sustain the same clocks / even still be here in a year's time. Hell, I'm not even sure about 1.29v.

None of these 3000 chips are actually designed for all-core boost on 6 or 8 cores past 41.5x. None of them. Period. You can't buy the cheapest SKU in the family and expect a well-binned chip. If you had a 3600X, 3700X or 3800X, looking at the stats I'd say you have a sliver of a chance to end up with a golden chip doing 4.3GHz at 1.3v, but even then it's slim, and still inadvisable for long-term longevity. Even the 3950X comes down to 41.5x-41.25x between 6-8 cores load.

The family has only been out for less than half a year, and there are plenty of accounts of severe degradation from running fixed clocks constantly at around 1.3V and higher. Add to that temps into the 80s and higher, and well...


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## biffzinker (Jan 17, 2020)

I've found the sweet spot is 4.0 GHz at a Vcore of 1.25 for doing an all cores overclocked. Anything beyond is risking the longevity of the 3600. If plan you on replacing it with a Ryzen 4xx0 (Zen 3) then don't worry about it. I would rather wait to see what Zen 3 offers in reviews then decide.


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## WatEagle (Jan 17, 2020)

Ok so it’s at limit probably won’t last that long...so what can I do to oc it but safely?
set 41.5 and and?


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## oobymach (Jan 17, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> I mean, it's pretty simple...you're running fixed clocks with presumably high LLC. If it isn't stable at that voltage, it isn't stable. If it is, it is. There's not much more to it...if you want to go further, dial up the Vcore if you can handle the heat, but judging from the temps I think not.
> 
> All-core 4.2 @ a hair under 1.3v. You're treading on thin ice there if you're running it day in and day out at those settings and benching it all the time. Go past 1.3V and I can't say if your chip will still sustain the same clocks / even still be here in a year's time. Hell, I'm not even sure about 1.29v.
> 
> ...


I've been pushing my 3600x over 1.3v since I got it, no degradation whatsoever (although I'm not benching it day in day out). Gaming gets it up over 60 degrees but not by much, benching with p95 pushes it up over 80 degrees but that's to be expected, it's a torture test.

As long as you're using good cooling you can really push these chips hard, max tdp is 95 degrees so as long as it's not shutting down during use you're fine.

The default voltage in bios is like 1.44v but that's using the fluctuating frequency not a set one.


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## Zach_01 (Jan 17, 2020)

oobymach said:


> I've been pushing my 3600x over 1.3v since I got it, no degradation whatsoever (although I'm not benching it day in day out). Gaming gets it up over 60 degrees but not by much, benching with p95 pushes it up over 80 degrees but that's to be expected, it's a torture test.
> 
> As long as you're using good cooling you can really push these chips hard, max tdp is 95 degrees so as long as it's not shutting down during use you're fine.
> 
> The default voltage in bios is like 1.44v but that's using the fluctuating frequency not a set one.


Do not compare 3600 with 3600X. Different silicon limits....

-----3600------3600X
PPT: 88W------128W
TDC: 60A-------90A
EDC: 90A------125A

When a CPU has exceed 2 out of 3 limits or all 3 then its definately not good... The silicon degradation can occur in 3 months or 6 or 9... Just because you did not see it now does not mean you will not in future or someone else wont... Do not encourage OC, just because... Each user should know the specifics of the chip and do this on their own.
These CPUs are not for OC past 4.0~4.2GHz... depending the SKU, you like it or not, thats the deal and you have to know about it, accept it, and take your own risk.
The CPU is intelligent enough (auto mode) to know when must raise clocks/voltages in any given temp or load or any other situation.
Static OC kills its protection and silicon management...


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## oobymach (Jan 17, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Do not compare 3600 with 3600X. Different silicon limits....
> 
> -----3600------3600X
> PPT: 88W------128W
> ...


Yes and no, 1.3v isn't going to kill your cpu, and in all my years of overclocking I have yet to see silicon degradation even when pushing beyond intended limits. I ran my 8350 @ 4.7ghz 1.6v for years without issue, also had my nb oc'd to 3.1ghz same system for years of abuse, mind you I had a fan blowing in my case and a silverstone heligon he01 cooler but that's not the point. You won't kill your cpu by overclocking (unless you use stock cooler or have no idea what you're doing, then overclocking isn't recommended).

I've seen users push past 4.3ghz with 3600's, they don't use stock cooling obviously but it's well within tolerances. If using stock cooling you shouldn't push past 4.2ghz but again, if you have a decent cooler you can easily achieve higher speeds with minimal if not zero risk to your cpu.


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## Zach_01 (Jan 17, 2020)

Comparing ZEN in general and particularly ZEN2 with the FXs is irrelevant. ZEN2 is something entirely new and not as sturdy as those FX.
I owned an FX8370 for 7 years and the 5 of them worked at 180~200+W. Still works fine at stock to where I sold it.

ZEN2 was made as it is for a reason. Just because a CPU's temp is under throttle limit doesnt mean its ok. Its all relative but some users tend to not understand it.
Clock, voltage, current, temp... individually or half of them, mean a big nothing... All together as a whole have a meaning that only the CPU's silicon FITness manager can fully understand... apparently


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## tabascosauz (Jan 17, 2020)

oobymach said:


> Yes and no, 1.3v isn't going to kill your cpu, and in all my years of overclocking I have yet to see silicon degradation even when pushing beyond intended limits. I ran my 8350 @ 4.7ghz 1.6v for years without issue, also had my nb oc'd to 3.1ghz same system for years of abuse, mind you I had a fan blowing in my case and a silverstone heligon he01 cooler but that's not the point. You won't kill your cpu by overclocking (unless you use stock cooler or have no idea what you're doing, then overclocking isn't recommended).
> 
> I've seen users push past 4.3ghz with 3600's, they don't use stock cooling obviously but it's well within tolerances. If using stock cooling you shouldn't push past 4.2ghz but again, if you have a decent cooler you can easily achieve higher speeds with minimal if not zero risk to your cpu.



You might want to do a bit of reading. There's plenty of complaints of serious  degradation in just a few months from people running fixed freq between 1.3-1.325v. After release, the Stilt speculated that 1.325v was the FIT limit, so people automatically assumed it was safe and set their 3600s to 1.325v. All without realizing that as soon as you set static clocks, the gloves come off and the chip no longer regulates itself with respect to a voltage limiter like FIT. Tales of woe ensued, and continue to manifest as people slowly learn the hard way that fixed freq is not the way to go, especially on low end SKUs and air cooling.

This is DUV 7nm Zen. It's a very different playing field out here. This is not 32nm Core, or 32nm Piledriver. Those FX handle 1.425v out of the box.

Everything is magnified on this process, including silicon variation and leakage with higher temperatures. Just because someone is running 4.3GHz @ 1.3V under water or more extreme cooling doesn't mean it's long-term safe for you to do the same on a D15. Barring silicon inconsistencies, 1.3V might very well be safe at full load 60°c, but most people can't dream of reaching those kinds of temperatures at that Vcore. At 80°c, 1.3V is a very different story.


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## WatEagle (Jan 17, 2020)

Guys, I was a bit worried about degradation, and I set in the bios core multiplier and Vcore to auto...I didn’t know also because it’s the first ryzen I own and before I got only Intel. I didn’t know how sensible was 7 nm.

But still, how can I oc it without degradation if it is possible?


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## oobymach (Jan 17, 2020)

I'm not wrong, I looked into it and it turns out degradation is a big issue with ryzen but 1.3v is safe. More than 1.3v isn't unless you have an aftermarket cooler and even then not much more. I'm running 1.33v so pretty sure I'm safe, though I won't be pushing it to its limits after reading this.

From reddit: 




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/bbxot0




WatEagle said:


> Guys, I was a bit worried about degradation, and I set in the bios core multiplier and Vcore to auto...I didn’t know also because it’s the first ryzen I own and before I got only Intel. I didn’t know how sensible was 7 nm.
> 
> But still, how can I oc it without degradation if it is possible?


I would start with your current oc 4.2ghz and see if you can get that stable with 1.2-1.25v and don't stress your system for hours on end with p95. A 15 min test is more than enough and I usually only run for a minute to see if oc causes immediate failure of a worker, otherwise if everything is good after a minute it's good enough to game on imo.


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## Zach_01 (Jan 18, 2020)

oobymach said:


> I'm not wrong, I looked into it and it turns out degradation is a big issue with ryzen but 1.3v is safe. More than 1.3v isn't unless you have an aftermarket cooler and even then not much more. I'm running 1.33v so pretty sure I'm safe, though I won't be pushing it to its limits after reading this.
> 
> From reddit:
> 
> ...


I really hope that you’re not wrong.
Still I believe there is a great misconception about auto voltage and static voltage. It’s not the same 1.33V static OC and auto boosting. The voltage regulator monitors several aspects of the silicon and can fluctuate the voltage and the clock hundreds of times within a sec as needed, not only to achieve boost but to preserve silicon also.

IMO this reverse engineering is wrong for the main reason I just explained above.
The so called safe limit of 1.33V at 85C means absolutely nothing... The boost algorithm is not that shallow. If it was like that it should not be called algorithm but just a calculator.
1.33V with 85C in what short of load and with what power current?
And even if we new that... still the static OC/voltage cannot simulate the auto regulator of chip...


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## tabascosauz (Jan 18, 2020)

oobymach said:


> I'm not wrong, I looked into it and it turns out degradation is a big issue with ryzen but 1.3v is safe.



Uh...

I really don't mean to offend, but if you came to that conclusion, you clearly didn't look very well at all. That post is from 9 months ago, and draws its assumptions from Stilt's *Pinnacle Ridge* analysis. *Pinnacle Ridge is Ryzen 2000. *9 months ago, Ryzen 3000 was not on the market.

That isn't even the aforementioned erroneous/incorrect Stilt 1.325v Ryzen 3000 analysis, which we know to be dubiously dangerous for long-term operation on Ryzen 3000.

In no way is the recommended voltage range for 14nm Ryzen 1000 or 12nm Ryzen 2000 safe for Ryzen 3000. Those who OC'd 14nm Summit Ridge with 32nm Vishera know-how burned their chips with excessive voltage. Those who OC'd 12nm Pinnacle Ridge with 14nm Summit Ridge Vcore experience degraded their chips severely. The same happens for trying to apply Pinnacle experience to 7nm Matisse. End of story.



WatEagle said:


> Guys, I was a bit worried about degradation, and I set in the bios core multiplier and Vcore to auto...I didn’t know also because it’s the first ryzen I own and before I got only Intel. I didn’t know how sensible was 7 nm.
> 
> But still, how can I oc it without degradation if it is possible?



First step is to take it off of fixed frequencies. Put multiplier back on Auto, put Vcore back onto either Auto or Normal, put core LLC back to Auto. Make sure Core Performance Boost is enabled, it pretty much enables boost, if you have the setting. Start with PBO Disabled or on Auto (essentially disabled). Test and see:

- what kind of scores you are getting in CB R20, single and multi thread
- what kind of clocks, and SVI2 TFN do you get in CB R20
- what kind of clocks, and SVI2 TFN Vcore do you end up on in Prime95 Smallest and Small
- what kind of temperatures in both

Once you establish a baseline, then you can start messing with PBO.

As a Ryzen 3000 owner, you need to embrace the stock boosting algorithm. These chips are like no other. There is negligible "OC" headroom in even the better binned chips; this is 7nm. And you need to first throw away what you know about "OC" (which usually entails fixed frequencies and fixed Vcore in traditional chips) if you come from Intel.

Testing fixed frequencies on Ryzen 3000 is useful for a variety of reasons. It's useful for determining the voltage limits of your chip (ie. absolute minimum Vcore required to sustain a certain load/clocks) and where the voltage "wall" lies, thus a general idea of how the chip was binned, or with a known astronomically excellent chip that can do 4300-4400MHz at 1.25V to 1.28V under strong watercooling, or running an HTPC at lower clocks that cares more for thermals and acoustics over 100% performance.

Using fixed freqs as a quick-and-dirty way to "OC" is not one of those reasons.


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## Zach_01 (Jan 18, 2020)

WatEagle said:


> Guys, I was a bit worried about degradation, and I set in the bios core multiplier and Vcore to auto...I didn’t know also because it’s the first ryzen I own and before I got only Intel. I didn’t know how sensible was 7 nm.
> 
> But still, how can I oc it without degradation if it is possible?


I agree with everything @tabascosauz said and like to add just to give you a perspective and some thought...

What is you every day usage of the CPU beside synthetic benchmarks and stress tests?
Are you gaming? editing? rendering?
What does 4.2GHz static OC has gave you in real life games/apps that is worth risking your CPU’s longevity. Did you see any significant benefit from it?
Again, I’m not talking about scores of synthetics, but real life workloads...

Something must be killed... It’s either static OC or CPU “life” and the choice is in user’s hands...


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## WatEagle (Jan 18, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Uh...
> 
> I really don't mean to offend, but if you came to that conclusion, you clearly didn't look very well at all. That post is from 9 months ago, and draws its assumptions from Stilt's *Pinnacle Ridge* analysis. *Pinnacle Ridge is Ryzen 2000. *9 months ago, Ryzen 3000 was not on the market.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I set everything to auto, even resetting the bios and now everything It‘s good. In cinebench I get about 3500 pt with all auto, with oc I got 3900 but I don’t want anymore risk the lifespan of the cpu.



Zach_01 said:


> I agree with everything @tabascosauz said and like to add just to give you a perspective and some thought...
> 
> What is you every day usage of the CPU beside synthetic benchmarks and stress tests?
> Are you gaming? editing? rendering?
> ...


Yeah I use it mostly for gaming, browsing internet for university and sometimes I edit videos just for fun.
I did test yet the difference, but on the there is a video about r5 3600 at 3600mhz vs 4200 and the difference is about 5 FPS. Now I’m happy with the performances I get, so I think I‘ll just leave everything to auto and then in the future I will consider again OC


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## Zach_01 (Jan 18, 2020)

WatEagle said:


> Thanks, I set everything to auto, even resetting the bios and now everything It‘s good. In cinebench I get about 3500 pt with all auto, with oc I got 3900 but I don’t want anymore risk the lifespan of the cpu.
> 
> 
> Yeah I use it mostly for gaming, browsing internet for university and sometimes I edit videos just for fun.
> I did test yet the difference, but on the there is a video about r5 3600 at 3600mhz vs 4200 and the difference is about 5 FPS. Now I’m happy with the performances I get, so I think I‘ll just leave everything to auto and then in the future I will consider again OC


While scoring 3500 vs 3900 in R20 is significant difference, it does not help in gaming and you are just an occasional “just for fan” editor. It’s not really worth it.

Yeah, take videos with a grain of salt...
Do your own gaming benchmarks and see if the benefits worth the trouble. I bet you would see less than 2~3% increase from stock to 4.2GHz OC.

Instead of OC you could improve slightly the auto clock with specific manual PBO settings and let the chip do it’s thing when it can. Although the perf. gains still would be marginal.


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## WatEagle (Jan 18, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> While scoring 3500 vs 3900 in R20 is significant difference, it does not help in gaming and you are just an occasional “just for fan” editor. It’s not really worth it.
> 
> Yeah, take videos with a grain of salt...
> Do your own gaming benchmarks and see if the benefits worth the trouble. I bet you would see less than 2~3% increase from stock to 4.2GHz OC.
> ...


Yes, the difference in game benchmarks is in the best case 5%.
I enabled PBO, but I don’t understand how it works and how to set it manually


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## Zach_01 (Jan 18, 2020)

Post a screenshot again of HWiNFO when running CB-R20 and w'll see...
I would like to see the PPT/TDC/EDC, temp, coreVID, effective clock. The max/avg values for all of those, but you should do the following...
Start bench, then right after reset HWiNFO values and take screenshot before it ends. Bench takes about 80sec to finish on R5 3600 so you take the shot at about 70~75sec.
Should be like mine, on post #2.

You already said that all core score is 3500.
How about single score?


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## Durvelle27 (Jan 18, 2020)

Honestly i have a 360p and pushing for high clocks showed no benefits in gaming only benchmarks. Heavy work loads also don't improve much. 

I achieved 4.275GHz on my 3600 but voltages were high and temps could get there. 

Daily i settled for 4.1GHz as i could run lower volts with decent temps. 

4-4.1 should be doable with no fuss


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## WatEagle (Jan 18, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Post a screenshot again of HWiNFO when running CB-R20 and w'll see...
> I would like to see the PPT/TDC/EDC, temp, coreVID, effective clock. The max/avg values for all of those, but you should do the following...
> Start bench, then right after reset HWiNFO values and take screenshot before it ends. Bench takes about 80sec to finish on R5 3600 so you take the shot at about 70~75sec.
> Should be like mine, on post #2.
> ...


Here it is the screenshot during cb r20


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## Zach_01 (Jan 18, 2020)

Ok... I expected a little longer than 9sec run... (at least a minute) but this will do as long as future screenshots will be taken the same way.
This will be your starting point.

See that PPT/TDC/EDC values? (raw value and %)
The default CPU PBO limits are

-----default-----(yours)
PPT: 88W--------(83W)
TDC: 60A---------(46A)
EDC: 90A---------(77A)

PPT: Power Package Tracking (total CPU socket power draw)
TDC: Thermal Design Current (max Current draw when throttling >95C)
EDC: Electrical Design Current (max Current draw when normal)

Under the same workload mine was:

-----default-----(mine)
PPT: 88W--------(86W) +2
TDC: 60A---------(49A) +3
EDC: 90A---------(78A) +1

The difference between them is due to temp.
Yours 66~67C
Mine 62~63C

And all these are monitored and regulated by silicon manager. The lower the temp the more watt and ampere the CPU is allowed to draw.
But your temps are more than acceptable.
What you can do now and may try to improve things, is to cap EDC.
If you bring that 77A EDC down the silicon manager will see potential less silicon stress, and may try to increase power draw with more clock and voltage. Some how it tries to take the stress headroom created by EDC reduction.

So, go to BIOS under XFR Enhancement and set PBO to manual like this

PPT: 90
TDC: 0 (default)
EDC: 70
PBO Scalar: Auto

...and run the R20 again.


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## damric (Jan 18, 2020)

Gigabyte says you can safely vcore at 1.55v on Ryzen, just sayin'.


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## Zach_01 (Jan 18, 2020)

damric said:


> Gigabyte says you can safely vcore at 1.55v on Ryzen, just sayin'.


Said to whom, where and when exactly?
Did you ever give yours 1.55V?
And Ryzen is a general name of latest AMD CPUs. Which one you're refering to? ZEN, ZEN+ or ZEN2...?


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 18, 2020)

WatEagle said:


> Ok so it’s at limit probably won’t last that long...so what can I do to oc it but safely?
> set 41.5 and and?


Increase your cooling capacity, the only way anyone ever got more out of a cpu usefully is to increase the cooling capacity of it's cooler and the system as a whole first then dial up performance but tbf 4.2 all core will heat up most systems , getting much beyond that will require a lot of cooling, effort and noise.


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## WatEagle (Jan 18, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Increase your cooling capacity, the only way anyone ever got more out of a cpu usefully is to increase the cooling capacity of it's cooler and the system as a whole first then dial up performance but tbf 4.2 all core will heat up most systems , getting much beyond that will require a lot of cooling, effort and noise.


Atm I don’t have time and money to buy something better, to be fair I‘m happy with the actual situation probably stick with it for the next few years and then change the whole system



Zach_01 said:


> Ok... I expected a little longer than 9sec run... (at least a minute) but this will do as long as future screenshots will be taken the same way.
> This will be your starting point.
> 
> See that PPT/TDC/EDC values? (raw value and %)
> ...


Thanks, tomorrow I’ll try and let u know


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## GLD (Jan 18, 2020)

No hijacking, just saying, I am happy with the stock performance of my Ryzen 3600, but I am not liking the 75*C temps it hits while gaming. I wouldn't want to OC it. It's toasty enough!


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## damric (Jan 19, 2020)

Gigabyte says you can safely vcore at 1.55v on Ryzen, just sayin'.


Zach_01 said:


> Said to whom, where and when exactly?
> Did you ever give yours 1.55V?
> And Ryzen is a general name of latest AMD CPUs. Which one you're refering to? ZEN, ZEN+ or ZEN2...?



lol all the time





Gigabyte voltage references here:









						GIGABYTE AM4 Overclocking Guide
					

Joomag digital interactive publication




					view.joomag.com


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## Xzibit (Jan 19, 2020)

damric said:


> Gigabyte says you can safely vcore at 1.55v on Ryzen, just sayin'.
> 
> 
> lol all the time
> ...



Is that the Gigabyte X470 (Pinnacle-Ridge) Overclocking Guide ?

In that guide GB never mention going above v1.38 let alone being safe and they have a dislcaimer on the second page



			
				Gigabyte said:
			
		

> Disclaimer: Overclocking will technically void your warranty. While it’s usually safe, there is potential to damage the chip if you push voltages too high.



*EDIT: The one you posted links to X370. Thats even older.*


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## damric (Jan 19, 2020)

Xzibit said:


> Is that the Gigabyte X470 (Pinnacle-Ridge) Overclocking Guide ?
> 
> In that guide GB never mention going above v1.38 let alone being safe and they have a dislcaimer on the second page



1.38v yeah for SoC


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## Xzibit (Jan 19, 2020)

damric said:


> 1.38v yeah for SoC



*Gigabyte X470 Overclocking Guide from Gigabyte not a third party*

Don't think Gigabyte has put out a X570 Guide but if you want to keep saying X370/1800X guide applies to all be my guess. There is no shortage of people putting out bad info.


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## damric (Jan 19, 2020)

Xzibit said:


> *Gigabyte X470 Overclocking Guide from Gigabyte not a third party*
> 
> Don't think Gigabyte has put out a X570 Guide but if you want to keep saying X370/1800X guide applies to all be my guess. There is no shortage of people putting out bad info.



3rd party?









						GA-AX370-Gaming 5 (rev. 1.0) Key Features | Motherboard - GIGABYTE U.S.A.
					

Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...




					www.gigabyte.com
				




I'm just quoting gigabyte. Don't get butthurt when you are already wrong like 3x


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## tabascosauz (Jan 19, 2020)

damric said:


> 3rd party?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



truly a bruh moment

Are you going to tell me next that Ryzen 3000 chiplets are manufactured on 14nm LP GF like your 1600? 

Nice troll.


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## damric (Jan 19, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> truly a bruh moment
> 
> Are you going to tell me next that Ryzen 3000 chiplets are manufactured on 14nm LP GF like your 1600?
> 
> Nice troll.



Eh?

I'm not telling you that. Just quoting Gigabyte.

But by all means if you want to run frequency that is lower that stock turbo, then use a voltage lower than what the board applies during that power state. I would question why you would want less performance than stock settings


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## tabascosauz (Jan 19, 2020)

damric said:


> Eh?
> 
> I'm not telling you that. Just quoting Gigabyte.
> 
> But by all means if you want to run frequency that is lower that stock turbo, then use a voltage lower than what the board applies during that power state. I would question why you would want less performance than stock settings



What kind of good shit are you smoking? I'm trying to convince OP to rely on stock settings and play with PBO settings to OC, so he can get respectable MT when he needs it and better ST otherwise, while cutting down on Vcore and degradation he doesn't need. Stock doesn't ever exceed 1.34v at short duration full load and only in certain applications and current draw.

The chip in question here is Matisse, not Summit Ridge. Go buy a Matisse chip, run 1.55v fixed Vcore through it, and let us know how that goes, mhmm?


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## damric (Jan 19, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> What kind of good shit are you smoking? I'm trying to convince OP to rely on stock settings and play with PBO settings to OC. Stock doesn't ever exceed 1.34v at short duration full load and only in certain applications and current draw.
> 
> The chip in question here is Matisse, not Summit Ridge. Go buy a Matisse chip, run 1.55v fixed Vcore through it, and let us know how that goes, mhmm?



What are you babbling to me about then?

I'm simply stating a quote from Gigaybyte about Ryzen, and you are trying to tell me I'm wrong.

Perhaps you should go back and read my posts in this thread, and stick to buying overpriced highly binned low leakage chips


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## Xzibit (Jan 19, 2020)

damric said:


> What are you babbling to me about then?
> 
> *I'm simply stating a quote from Gigaybyte about Ryzen, and you are trying to tell me I'm wrong.*
> 
> Perhaps you should go back and read my posts in this thread, and stick to buying overpriced highly binned low leakage chips



You did state "safe" then applied the guide which is let me quote it



			
				Gigabyte said:
			
		

> Chapter 2: How to overclock Your *AMD Ryzen 1800X CPU*



To everything. Making a blank statement well... Like i said previously


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## damric (Jan 19, 2020)

Xzibit said:


> You did state "safe" then applied the guide which is let me quote it
> 
> To everything. Making a blank statement well... Like i said previously



No I quoted the guide from Gigabyte. Though it is true I have run well over 1.55v for years on many CPUs  

I also didn't post anything about 1800x, or maybe you are just quoting yourself now


----------



## Xzibit (Jan 19, 2020)

damric said:


> No I quoted the guide from Gigabyte. Though it is true I have run well over 1.55v for years on many CPUs
> 
> I also didn't post anything about 1800x, or maybe you are just quoting yourself now



Read the Gigabyte X370/1800X guide you keep posting 3 times now.  Its a X370 & 1800X OC guide.

Don't tell me you keep quoting it and don't know what its about.


----------



## damric (Jan 19, 2020)

Xzibit said:


> Read the Gigabyte X370/1800X guide you keep posting 3 times now.  Its a X370 & 1800X OC guide.
> 
> Don't tell me you keep quoting it and don't know what its about.



No, you can go read the guide. Then you can go buy a Ryzen. Then you can practice tuning. Report back when have made meaningful progress.


----------



## Xzibit (Jan 19, 2020)

damric said:


> No, you can go read the guide. Then you can go buy a Ryzen. Then you can practice tuning. Report back when have made meaningful progress.



I have a 3700X (Look at the Zen Garden thread for screens).  I don't need to read guides from 2 gen old arc and do blanket statements that be silly.

Did you just changed your Syspecs


----------



## damric (Jan 19, 2020)

Xzibit said:


> I have a 3700X (Look at the Zen Garden thread for screens).  I don't need to read guides from 2 gen old arc and do blanket statements that be silly.



Great. You now need step 3 and 4, or did you give up already?


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 19, 2020)

@damric, do you think that 1.55Vcore and 1.38 SoC voltage is relevant to this thread and Matisse? The OP has ZEN2 chip and those voltage values will turn his CPU into very nice firework that I would see from where I live...

So please stop making irrelevant and dangerous suggestions to the OP. Obviously you ain’t know much about Matisse and 7nm process node.


----------



## damric (Jan 19, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> @damric, do you think that 1.55Vcore and 1.38 SoC voltage is relevant to this thread and Matisse? The OP has ZEN2 chip and those voltage values will turn his CPU into very nice firework that I would see from where I live...
> 
> So please stop making irrelevant and dangerous suggestions to the OP. Obviously you ain’t know much about Matisse and 7nm process node.



Did I tell the OP to immediately run his run his voltage up that high? No. But my board sure as hell puts out that much voltage at stock to put my 1600 in a turbo state. And rightfully so, as it is a high leakage potato. Hell, it needs 1.47v just to have a stable 24/7 all core overclock of 3.90GHz.

I made the comment because you are pillow biting about 1.3v knowing good and well that the motherboard pushes that much and more during normal p-states. All you got to do is look up the VIDs to see this, or put windows into high performance mode and look at CPU-Z with a 3600 lol.

Apparantly what you don't understand is that the 3600 SKU is the lowest quality and leakiest silicon of the 7nm, meaning that it will take a lot more voltage than the higher binned SKUs to reach equivalent stable clock speed. Your fears come from lack of experience. Instead of buying high bin, low leakage SKUs that can run on lower voltage, try buying the low end once and a while, live a little, and crank it up. Don't let some random on reddit make you live in fear. Actually dig into your motherboard registers and look for yourself.


----------



## WatEagle (Jan 19, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Ok... I expected a little longer than 9sec run... (at least a minute) but this will do as long as future screenshots will be taken the same way.
> This will be your starting point.
> 
> See that PPT/TDC/EDC values? (raw value and %)
> ...


Hi, sorry for the long time I took to make it but I have to study also.

This is what I get.

Gained +/- 50 points


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 19, 2020)

damric said:


> Did I tell the OP to immediately run his run his voltage up that high? No. But my board sure as hell puts out that much voltage at stock to put my 1600 in a turbo state. And rightfully so, as it is a high leakage potato. Hell, it needs 1.47v just to have a stable 24/7 all core overclock of 3.90GHz.
> 
> I made the comment because you are pillow biting about 1.3v knowing good and well that the motherboard pushes that much and more during normal p-states. All you got to do is look up the VIDs to see this, or put windows into high performance mode and look at CPU-Z with a 3600 lol.
> 
> Apparantly what you don't understand is that the 3600 SKU is the lowest quality and leakiest silicon of the 7nm, meaning that it will take a lot more voltage than the higher binned SKUs to reach equivalent stable clock speed. Your fears come from lack of experience. Instead of buying high bin, low leakage SKUs that can run on lower voltage, try buying the low end once and a while, live a little, and crank it up. Don't let some random on reddit make you live in fear. Actually dig into your motherboard registers and look for yourself.


Your lack of knowledge in ZEN2 aspects is at full demonstration right now, and obviously you didn’t follow every post in this thread. If you had read the posts and states that many wrote here beside me, users that done their homework and know how to observe readings and how to interpret them, you would know that you can’t apply same voltage at given speed like when its on auto boosting at same speed.
1. If a ZEN2 CPU is auto boosting avg at 4.2GHz single core with avg 1.45V you cannot set static 4.2GHz with static 1.45V You will exceed silicon limits.
2. If a ZEN2 CPU is auto boosting avg at 4.05GHz all core with avg 1.38V you cannot set static 4.05GHz with static 1.38V you will exceed silicon limits.
3. and so on...

Of course I'm aware that 3600 is the bottom of the barrel silicon quality (I own one, and not some high binned SKU), and requires the highest voltage of all ZEN2 SKUs to run the same speeds. Thats why it is contrained to such low speeds by default. What we are trying to pass here is that its completely wrong to set static voltage to a given static speed just because you see this value due to auto boosting. Its false practice and lack of knowledge.

Do you even know what the name FIT is? Have you ever heard of silicon FITness controller on ZEN2? The only defence of the CPU against degradation? Do you own and experiment a ZEN2 SKU? Any experience with one? Did you spend hours after hours of testing, observing, asking other ZEN2 users for operating info, reading about and try to understand its core technology and how this thing work and behave?

...or you just looking VIDs and copy the values? Oh this is so experienced practice...

Do you know terms like PPT/TDC/EDC? Once you set ZEN2 to a static OC and voltage the silicon FITness controller is off and no longer regulates silicon stress and cant protect the silicon. I've said it before, but you didnt read it or choose to ignore it or did not understand it. The internal manager of ZEN2 flactuates clock and voltage hundreads of times within a sec to keep performance as high as possible and keeping silicon preservation altogether in conjunction with temperature, avoiding irreversible electromigration... You cant copy or simulate this kind of operation and behaviour with any manual OC ad voltage settings.

I hope the OP and/or any other ZEN2 user will not be drifted by your false states and practices. As far as I'm concerned you can keep your great and exciting "living on the edge overclocking" life and enjoy it.



WatEagle said:


> Hi, sorry for the long time I took to make it but I have to study also.
> 
> This is what I get.
> 
> ...


I'm confused a little...
I see the PPT/TDC/EDC values and percentage and cartainly are not as I suggested...

I suggested...
PPT: 90
TDC: 0
EDC: 70

And these settings must be like...
PPT: 1000
TDC: 115
EDC 168


----------



## WatEagle (Jan 19, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Your lack of knowledge in ZEN2 aspects is at full demonstration right now, and obviously you didn’t follow every post in this thread. If you had read the posts and states that many wrote here beside me, users that done their homework and know how to observe readings and how to interpret them, you would know that you can’t apply same voltage at given speed like when its on auto boosting at same speed.
> 1. If a ZEN2 CPU is auto boosting avg at 4.2GHz single core with avg 1.45V you cannot set static 4.2GHz with static 1.45V You will exceed silicon limits.
> 2. If a ZEN2 CPU is auto boosting avg at 4.05GHz all core with avg 1.38V you cannot set static 4.05GHz with static 1.38V you will exceed silicon limits.
> 3. and so on...
> ...


Oh maybe because I set in Ryzen master the PBO as OC governor


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 19, 2020)

WatEagle said:


> Oh maybe because I set in Ryzen master the PBO as OC governor


Could be... RyzenMaster overrides BIOS settings. Keep RyzenMaster on normal mode if you want to explore manual BIOS settings for PBO.


----------



## oobymach (Jan 19, 2020)

When left on AUTO my cpu vcore starts @ 1.45v and goes up to 4.375ghz peaks on its own, just saying that manual setting of 1.33 is much lower than the automatic setting  in my bios. I have run it up manually higher than 1.38v but noticed after a point going higher with speeds and voltage causes decrease in performance in ram speed so I now use 4.3ghz @ 1.33v which seems to provide maximum ram speed and when gaming Doom loads in less than 6 seconds from load screen to in game which I'm happy with.

Higher speeds yielded cpu performance boost at a cost of a lot of heat so wouldn't recommend going beyond 4.3ghz but again I have yet to see any kind of degradation and I did clock and overvolt so high as to trigger windows to bsod/restart on a few occasions when testing p95 for temps and stability.


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Jan 19, 2020)

Looks like most overclocks on Ryzen 3000 ar 4.4ghz at 1.400v - 
Lower respectively depending on cooling ability.
4.2ghz is a good clock speed 1.3 - 1.35v - This looks absolutely normal to me.

I don't own a 3000 series chip, but this information is widely available.
Don't take damric's advice here. Zach will lead a good OC for anyone.


----------



## WatEagle (Jan 19, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Could be... RyzenMaster overrides BIOS settings. Keep RyzenMaster on normal mode if you want to explore manual BIOS settings for PBO.


Ok, I’ll set it to auto. Ty


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 19, 2020)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Looks like most overclocks on Ryzen 3000 ar 4.4ghz at 1.400v -
> Lower respectively depending on cooling ability.
> 4.2ghz is a good clock speed 1.3 - 1.35v - This looks absolutely normal to me.
> 
> ...


First, Thanks a lot for the confidence in me and my ways. I really and truely appreciate it!!

Fortunately I'm not the only one in here thinking and practicing same ways.
Yes this kind of info is widely spreaded across the net but I prompt (anyone) to take a look at the screenshot in post#2 of this very thread and witness how this, for many, mildly OC CPU has exceeded all PrecisionBoost and PBO limits while on 4.2GHz and 1.3V.

PPT: 88W -->99W
TDC: 60A -->60.5A
EDC: 90A -->114A
with 75~80C

Silicon FITness controller would never-ever allow that and this tells a lot. Even if I'm going to do circles I will never get tired of saying these things. ZEN2 and 7nm is like night and day when compared to previous ZEN or any other known CPU.
AMD has maxed the crap out of them out of the box and any kind of static OC is either underperforming or exceeding silicon limits for one to see significant gain. Strong and unconventional cooling excluded.
The only way of achieving any gain is within auto PBO settings and/or high cooling/dissipation capacity.


----------



## WatEagle (Jan 20, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Your lack of knowledge in ZEN2 aspects is at full demonstration right now, and obviously you didn’t follow every post in this thread. If you had read the posts and states that many wrote here beside me, users that done their homework and know how to observe readings and how to interpret them, you would know that you can’t apply same voltage at given speed like when its on auto boosting at same speed.
> 1. If a ZEN2 CPU is auto boosting avg at 4.2GHz single core with avg 1.45V you cannot set static 4.2GHz with static 1.45V You will exceed silicon limits.
> 2. If a ZEN2 CPU is auto boosting avg at 4.05GHz all core with avg 1.38V you cannot set static 4.05GHz with static 1.38V you will exceed silicon limits.
> 3. and so on...
> ...


New screenshot of hwinfo setting in Ryzen Master the default option
In cinebench I get 3576 pt

hwinfo:


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 20, 2020)

Are you sure you've set PBO manual and the ones we talk about?

If you plug a usb flash drive (FAT32) and press F12 in BIOS you can take a screenshot (BMP format). TPU doesnt accept BMP, you must convert it to another type like PNG (you can with windows paint)

It should be something like this but set PPT: 90 and EDC: 70
This is mine from earlier testing.
Now I'm at PPT: 99, EDC: 63 and Scalar X2(dont touch this for now, leave it auto)


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jan 20, 2020)

Unless I've missed it, nobody has mentioned RAM overclocking yet? It looks like you're running at a fairly pedestrian 3200 CL16 speed. That means there's a 12% wasted clock opportunity on the infinity fabric and I'm guessing that 3200 CL16 is the XMP profile, so there's probably a lot of potential to tighten the RAM timings and reduce latency there too. XMP is designed for Intel IMCs, and usually you can get significant gains by using timings optimised for Ryzen 3000.

For gaming especially, I believe the best performance from a Ryzen 5 is going to be to leave XFR+ and PB enabled on default (stock) settings and allow the CPU and motherboard to do a half-decent job of overclocking for you without raising your voltages, temps, fan noise etc. If you're running all-core workloads like rendering or encodes, then fixed-frequency overclocking still has merits, but for most use cases, allowing the CPU to burst up to 4.2 when necessary but chill out when not under load makes a lot more sense.

The real benefit to Ryzen 3000-series is to crank up the Infinity fabric as high as it'll go. Realistically, you want to be using a cheap DDR4-3600 kit so that you can hit the maximum 1:1 divider speed of 1800MHz.

My stock R5 3600 was about 3-5% faster using 3600 CL16 settings and 1800MHz IF compared to 4.3 all-core using my previous Crucial DDR4-3000 CL17 kit using XMP settings. Ryzen 3000 _loves_ high infinity fabric clocks and tight RAM timings.

If you haven't already, download Thaiphoon burner to identify your RAM module type, then download the 1usmus DRAM calculator and use it to run your RAM at 3600 with the lowest timings possible. Samsung B-die is extremely good for tight timings at 3200-3400MHz, and is usually affordable (Corsair LPX, for example). I have found better 3600 timings from Hynix CJR (sold as Patriot Viper 3600 CL17) which is also usually affordable, decent RAM for Ryzen 3000.

Anyway, once you have your memory type, put it into 1usmus' DRAM Calculator and set BCLK to 100, Frequency to 3600 (regardless of whether it's a 3600 kit or not) and then hit _Calculate SAFE_ and plug all of the values from the 2nd and 3rd columns into your BIOS. If you can boot successfully with those timings, save that profile and try the _Calculate FAST _timings next.

At the end of the day, low-end Ryzen 3000 is going to top out at about 4.3GHz and there's no point in burning it out and pushing it to the limits and potentially damaging it just to achieve a 3% performance boost. There are bigger gains to be had by simply running the IF and RAM as fast as possible whilst enjoying all the benefits of XFR, PB, and stock (cool, quiet, long-lived) operation. Trust me, an 1800MHz infinity fabric clock is the lowest-hanging fruit for Ryzen 5. Don't even bother trying to manually overclock the CPU until you've set an 1800MHz IF clock, and don't expect miracles from a manual overclock unless your workload is 100% all-core use.


----------



## WatEagle (Jan 20, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> Unless I've missed it, nobody has mentioned RAM overclocking yet? It looks like you're running at a fairly pedestrian 3200 CL16 speed. That means there's a 12% wasted clock opportunity on the infinity fabric and I'm guessing that 3200 CL16 is the XMP profile, so there's probably a lot of potential to tighten the RAM timings and reduce latency there too. XMP is designed for Intel IMCs, and usually you can get significant gains by using timings optimised for Ryzen 3000.
> 
> For gaming especially, I believe the best performance from a Ryzen 5 is going to be to leave XFR+ and PB enabled on default (stock) settings and allow the CPU and motherboard to do a half-decent job of overclocking for you without raising your voltages, temps, fan noise etc. If you're running all-core workloads like rendering or encodes, then fixed-frequency overclocking still has merits, but for most use cases, allowing the CPU to burst up to 4.2 when necessary but chill out when not under load makes a lot more sense.
> 
> ...


Yeah also though this, but if I have to be honest I’m a bit worried about ram oc. I overclocked ram in intel platforms but ryzen is another planet. I had a lot of issues with ram until I changed it with Corsair lpx 3200.

abyway I’ ll try what you told


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jan 20, 2020)

WatEagle said:


> Yeah also though this, but if I have to be honest I’m a bit worried about ram oc. I overclocked ram in intel platforms but ryzen is another planet. I had a lot of issues with ram until I changed it with Corsair lpx 3200.
> 
> abyway I’ ll try what you told


Ok if that is Corsair LPX is very likely to be Samsung B-die, so tight 3600 timings should be possible 

Other than half an hour of your time, you have nothing to lose! Just make sure you are on on the latest BIOS and give the calculated timings a spin. There's a stability test in the download package for the calculator too, so you don't have to worry about a RAM overclock causing issues.

The main thing to remember is that XMP timings are terrible for Ryzen. They're quite literally optimisations for the wrong hardware. If you run the "SAFE" timings from the Ryzen calculator, it is likely to be not only faster than XMP but also _more stable_, as a Ryzen memory controller is not the same as an Intel memory controller and running Intel timings on AMD hardware doesn't always work - that's probably why you've had issues with other RAM before the Corsair LPX.

I don't have the wealth of experience with Ryzen that I have with Intel, but in the two dozen or so Zen, Zen+ and Threadripper builds I've done, a lot of XMP kits fail on first boot and only become usable after the Motherboard has done some memory training cycles. When you look into the detailed timings after successful memory training, you'll find that the training resulted in looser timings just to get the RAM stable at the XMP-rated frequency. I only have a couple of 3000-series under my belt at the moment, but since one of them is my personal rig it's had as much tweaking and testing as I can get my hands on, since a lot of hardware passes through my hands as part of my day job 

Ryzen Calculator is just XMP settings for AMD instead of Intel. That's how I see it at least and I'd recommend everyone try it at least in SAFE settings as a big improvement over the very limited XMP timing information stored on the RAM's SPD.


----------



## WatEagle (Jan 20, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> Ok if that is Corsair LPX is very likely to be Samsung B-die, so tight 3600 timings should be possible
> 
> Other than half an hour of your time, you have nothing to lose! Just make sure you are on on the latest BIOS and give the calculated timings a spin. There's a stability test in the download package for the calculator too, so you don't have to worry about a RAM overclock causing issues.


that’s fantastic, as I finish studying I’ll try and post results


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 20, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Are you sure you've set PBO manual and the ones we talk about?
> 
> If you plug a usb flash drive (FAT32) and press F12 in BIOS you can take a screenshot (BMP format). TPU doesnt accept BMP, you must convert it to another type like PNG (you can with windows paint)
> 
> ...


Don't mean to thread jump but does this look ok as i've never used PBO


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 20, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> Unless I've missed it, nobody has mentioned RAM overclocking yet? It looks like you're running at a fairly pedestrian 3200 CL16 speed. That means there's a 12% wasted clock opportunity on the infinity fabric and I'm guessing that 3200 CL16 is the XMP profile, so there's probably a lot of potential to tighten the RAM timings and reduce latency there too. XMP is designed for Intel IMCs, and usually you can get significant gains by using timings optimised for Ryzen 3000.
> 
> For gaming especially, I believe the best performance from a Ryzen 5 is going to be to leave XFR+ and PB enabled on default (stock) settings and allow the CPU and motherboard to do a half-decent job of overclocking for you without raising your voltages, temps, fan noise etc. If you're running all-core workloads like rendering or encodes, then fixed-frequency overclocking still has merits, but for most use cases, allowing the CPU to burst up to 4.2 when necessary but chill out when not under load makes a lot more sense.
> 
> ...


You are right about Ram OC but we cant mix everything into one... The OP asked for CPU OC we saw some flaws in his attempt and how he was exceeding some critical limits and now he is taking a different approach to it.
RAM was going to be next... but now... it will be a mixed mess as we wanted the results as pure as possible, without any other interfearing, like RAM OC... What can I say...


----------



## WatEagle (Jan 20, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Are you sure you've set PBO manual and the ones we talk about?
> 
> If you plug a usb flash drive (FAT32) and press F12 in BIOS you can take a screenshot (BMP format). TPU doesnt accept BMP, you must convert it to another type like PNG (you can with windows paint)
> 
> ...


here it is the snapshot from the bios


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 20, 2020)

This is in the "AMD Overclocking" section right?
There must be a "AMD CBS" section that contains "XFR Enhancement" and in that a "PBO" menu.

Leave these in pic as is and go into AMD CBS and do the same. The menu would be like the shot I posted above, without the "clock override" (MHz).
The board could prefer the "AMD CBS" over the "AMD Overclocking"

On my board works as intended on whatever section I made the change while the other is on auto.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jan 20, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> You are right about Ram OC but we cant mix everything into one... The OP asked for CPU OC we saw some flaws in his attempt and how he was exceeding some critical limits and now he is taking a different approach to it.
> RAM was going to be next... but now... it will be a mixed mess as we wanted the results as pure as possible, without any other interfearing, like RAM OC... What can I say...


Agreed, this will muddy the waters slightly but overclocking the RAM is as important as overclocking the CPU. IMO it's pointless to do one and not the other, and for most use-cases, Precision Boost is good enough that a manual overclock isn't really going to be much better. Certainly with the OP's 3200 CL16 XMP settings there's a huge amount of untapped performance left on the table - possibly more than any CPU overclock can deliver for some workloads (like gaming).

The only instance where I (personally - this is a subjective opinion, not objective fact) believe manual overclocks to be worthwhile are when you need an all-core overclock for a machine that will be doing heavily multithreaded workloads most or all of the time.

I'm not strictly speaking about an overclock either; Running the Infinity fabric at 1800MHz is the best performance it'll do whilst staying in spec, and running Ryzen-specific memory timings instead of Intel-specific memory timings is a no-brainer on Ryzen hardware.

I'm not a Ryzen 3000 overclocking veteran yet, by any means, but in order of importance, I would say that system optimisation should be:

Set your RAM to 3600MHz to get the Infinity Fabric running at it's maximum 1:1 speed
Get your RAM timings tightened, because XMP profiles are junk for Ryzen and you'll need to redo timings anyway if your ram wasn't initially a 3600 kit.
Manual CPU frequency overclock.


----------



## WatEagle (Jan 20, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> This is in the "AMD Overclocking" section right?
> There must be a "AMD CBS" section that contains "XFR Enhancement" and in that a "PBO" menu.
> 
> Leave these in pic as is and go into AMD CBS and do the same. The menu would be like the shot I posted above, without the "clock override" (MHz).
> ...


Yes it is AMD oc Section.
For XFR section I also used the search function in the bios, but I couldn't find it. 
I'll search again but not sure if there is in my bios



Chrispy_ said:


> Agreed, this will muddy the waters slightly but overclocking the RAM is as important as overclocking the CPU. IMO it's pointless to do one and not the other, and for most use-cases, Precision Boost is good enough that a manual overclock isn't really going to be much better. The only instance where I (personally - this is a subjective opinion, not objective fact) believe manual overclocks to be worthwhile are when you need an all-core overclock for a machine that will be doing heavily multithreaded workloads most or all of the time.
> 
> I'm not strictly speaking about an overclock either; Running the Infinity fabric at 1800MHz is the best performance it'll do whilst staying in spec, and running Ryzen-specific memory timings instead of Intel-specific memory timings is a no-brainer on Ryzen hardware.
> 
> ...


Yeah after I test a stable oc I'll also oc ram. I've used 1usmus Ram calculator yet, but first I wanna fine tune the cpu. Then i'll try Ram with suggested settings


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 20, 2020)

WatEagle said:


> Yes it is AMD oc Section.
> For XFR section I also used the search function in the bios, but I couldn't find it.
> I'll search again but not sure if there is in my bios
> 
> Yeah after I test a stable oc I'll also oc ram. I've used 1usmus Ram calculator yet, but first I wanna fine tune the cpu. Then i'll try Ram with suggested settings


99.9% there is... Did you look for AMD CBS?



Chrispy_ said:


> Agreed, this will muddy the waters slightly but overclocking the RAM is as important as overclocking the CPU. IMO it's pointless to do one and not the other, and for most use-cases, Precision Boost is good enough that a manual overclock isn't really going to be much better. Certainly with the OP's 3200 CL16 XMP settings there's a huge amount of untapped performance left on the table - possibly more than any CPU overclock can deliver for some workloads (like gaming).
> 
> The only instance where I (personally - this is a subjective opinion, not objective fact) believe manual overclocks to be worthwhile are when you need an all-core overclock for a machine that will be doing heavily multithreaded workloads most or all of the time.
> 
> ...


But I never said not to mess with RAM OC. I know what the ZEN2 can do with bumping up the RAM and InfinityFabric from 1600 up to 1900MHz... My ram is a 1733MHz and test it all the way up to 1900MHz. and settled to 1800MHz for rock solid usage. Look my profile system specs.
And we are not trying to static OC his CPU. Just fine tune PB and PBO. You may interested by this too if you had follow this thread from early point.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 20, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> This is in the "AMD Overclocking" section right?
> There must be a "AMD CBS" section that contains "XFR Enhancement" and in that a "PBO" menu.
> 
> Leave these in pic as is and go into AMD CBS and do the same. The menu would be like the shot I posted above, without the "clock override" (MHz).
> ...


So don't change XFR menu only AMD overclock menu


----------



## WatEagle (Jan 20, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> 99.9% there is... Did you look for AMD CBS?


I searched only XFR, now when I finish work with pc i'll search again


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jan 20, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> And we are not trying to static OC his CPU. Just fine tune PB and PBO. You may interested by this too if you had follow this thread from early point.



Yeah, I gathered that from the PBO BIOS screenshots.

From what he's showing (Manaul 90W PPT and 70A limit) that should be 95% of the way there. Problem could be old AGESA/BIOS - he's using the shaky release BIOS that was the first one that board ever shipped with. He doesn't even have the kind-of-mandatory AGESA 1.0.0.3AB patches for the 3000 series launch, let alone 1.0.0.3ABBA that sorted out most of the PBO and clocking problems.





Start with a working BIOS, then worry about the overclock


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 20, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> Yeah, I gathered that from the PBO BIOS screenshots.
> 
> From what he's showing (Manaul 90W PPT and 70A limit) that should be 95% of the way there. Problem could be old AGESA/BIOS - he's using the shaky release BIOS that was the first one that board ever shipped with. He doesn't even have the kind-of-mandatory AGESA 1.0.0.3AB patches for the 3000 series launch, let alone 1.0.0.3ABBA that sorted out most of the PBO and clocking problems.
> 
> ...


That is July 11th or November 7th?
I believe .350 is v35 and its the latest






						B450 TOMAHAWK MAX | Motherboard  | MSI Global
					

Best AMD AM4 B450 ATX motherboard, Turbo M.2, Extended heatsink, USB 3.2 Gen 2, Mystic Light, MSI MAG




					www.msi.com


----------



## WatEagle (Jan 20, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> Yeah, I gathered that from the PBO BIOS screenshots.
> 
> From what he's showing (Manaul 90W PPT and 70A limit) that should be 95% of the way there. Problem could be old AGESA/BIOS - he's using the shaky release BIOS that was the first one that board ever shipped with. He doesn't even have the kind-of-mandatory AGESA 1.0.0.3AB patches for the 3000 series launch, let alone 1.0.0.3ABBA that sorted out most of the PBO and clocking problems.
> 
> ...


I updated it as I finished building the system.
But i think it's the latest according to msi support page


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## damric (Jan 20, 2020)

Title of thread "help ryzen oc" not "help run at frequencies possible on a320 board"   

We won't be seeing any hwbot points in this thread, but certainly good goal for a walmart pc  

But don't be mad at me since I am probably the only ETN here (if you know what that is then you know where you are on the knowledge food chain).


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## WatEagle (Jan 20, 2020)

WatEagle said:


> I searched only XFR, now when I finish work with pc i'll search again


I searched for CBS and xfr and I couldn't find any option. I used also the search by world option but nope


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## Zach_01 (Jan 20, 2020)

Ok, the one you found is on:
Settings > Advanced > AMD Overclocking > AMD Overclocking > Precision Boost Overdrive

Try to look at:
OC > Advanced CPU Configuration > Precision Boost Overdrive


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## WatEagle (Jan 20, 2020)

ok found and set


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## biffzinker (Jan 20, 2020)

Core Performance Boost is the XFR option. Once you disable that option the CPU only runs at base clock speed (3.6 GHz for your 3600.)


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## Zach_01 (Jan 20, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> Core Performance Boost is the XFR option. Once you disable that option the CPU only runs at base clock speed (3.6 GHz for your 3600.)


Isnt XFR the former name of PBO?
XFR (eXtended Frequency Range) bacame PBO (Precision Boost Overdrive)

Core Performance Boost is another name for PB (Precision Boost)

PB and PBO are 2 different functions


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## biffzinker (Jan 20, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Isnt XFR the former name of PBO?
> XFR (eXtended Frequency Range) bacame PBO (Precision Boost Overdrive)
> 
> Core Performance Boost is another name for PB (Precision Boost)
> ...


No, not on a MSI motherboard, CPB is XFR renamed. You can disable PBO, and leave CPB on for the advertised XFR boost (4.2 GHz.)


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## specopsFI (Jan 21, 2020)

Just my two cents in this. Overclocking is and always has been about going over the specs and limits that the manufacturer has set. Zen2 is no different, except maybe for the headroom being very, very slim. I wouldn't worry one bit about going over the stock PPT, TDC and EDC limits. I am willing to bet (though can not prove, just like anyone outside AMD can't) that those are not set primarily for the silicon longevity, but for product segmenting. If 3600 was somehow substantially more fragile than for example 3600X, that would make Zen2 a very special case in the history of silicon chips. More likely is that the limits for the 3600 are set lower primarily because of the smaller stock cooler.

FIT is another thing, and that I would keep an eye on. As the Stilt has stated, the best way to get to know the guideline for the limits of your own chip is by removing PPT, TDC and EDC limits, keeping all other things at stock and putting the processor under load. And that load should be the heaviest load that you are going to be putting on the CPU when actually using it. For my own 3600, that is 1.313V (the lowest I've seen a core dip to under gaming load). And since my CPU/MB combo doesn't want to boost too well and I can get 4.2GHz stable at 1.297V, my choice is all core. If I did actual heavy stuff, I'd have to go for ~1.25V to feel comfortable.

Even for FIT, there is bound to be a certain buffer that AMD has seen fit (pun intented) to leave between FIT voltage and quick degradation. How big of an gap it is, we don't know. Most likely very small compared to pretty much any previous CPU we've seen. But still: going over PPT, TDC and EDC limits is nothing to worry about. FIT is relevant and a good ballpark to what you should set for voltage. And overall, gains by all core OC are very small but not completely irrelevant. Most gains are from IF and memory tweaking.


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## PorkLegoGuy (Apr 29, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Ok... I expected a little longer than 9sec run... (at least a minute) but this will do as long as future screenshots will be taken the same way.
> This will be your starting point.
> 
> See that PPT/TDC/EDC values? (raw value and %)
> ...



Hi Zach,

below are my TDC EDC and PPT readings. with PBO enabled. what manual settings would you recommend to squeeze alil more juice out from the processor via PBO. im running a Ryzen 5 3600 and MSI B450 Tomahawk Max motherboard. Thanks!


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## MrHomieOne (Sep 7, 2020)

Hi Guys,

My Ryzen 3600 runs now at 4400 MHz at 1,24 Volts with air cooling (Scythe Mugen 5), it needs only 15 watt in ideal. It scores 4000 Points in Cinebench R20. It stays cooler than with the standard settings and needs of course less Watts under load. I not tuned my Ram timings yet, I only activate the XMP profile (3200 MHz cl16). I tested it with Prime 95 1 hour. (max temp 75 °C, v drop 1,244 - 1,231, max 91 Watt SMU)

I'm not sure if my CPU EDC is holding me back, it maxed out at 90 A under heavy load, cause of the low CPU Voltage.

I'm pretty sure that this OC is better than run standard settings.

I tested 4,5 GHz at 1,3 Volts, it was stable in all benchmark test, (Cinebench R20, SiSoftSandra, UserBenchMark, 3DMark TimeSpy, FireSrike) but I don't tested it with Prime, it was getting a bit hot without an AIO (85 °C till Cinebench), and I don't want to toast it directly, so I would recommend using an AOI at those Voltages.

I tested 4,5 GHz at 1,3 Volts, it was stable in all benchmark test, (Cinebench R20, SiSoftSandra, UserBenchMark, 3DMark TimeSpy, FireSrike) but I don't tested it with Prime, it was getting a bit hot without an AIO (85 C° till Cinebench), and I don't want to toast it directly, so I would recommend using an AOI at those Voltages.

At my 4400 MHz OC, I started at 1,2 Volts, but it was completely Prime stable at 1,24 Volts.

I tested out the max CPU voltages at standart settings under Full load (Prime 95), with a x570 chipset and bios from August 2020, my Voltages jumpes around at 1,26 - 1,32 Volts, but most of the time it's near to the 1,26 Volts at 3990 MHz (max CPU Temp 80 °C). 

So I think 1,26 Volts is the minimum all core Voltage under maximum CPUload from AMD, so completely Save.

1,32 Volts was the maximum Voltage under maximum CPU load, but it was not often there and only short.

So I think 1,26 Volts Is total save all core voltage, I would not go over 1,3 Volts, if you want to be sure that your CPU don't degenerates fast and keep your Temps under 80 °C.

Nobody knows exactly how fast these chips degenerate, but every CPU degenerates over time of using, also with stock voltages and settings, heat and voltage makes it happen faster and nobody knows with how much years we are ending up, at what heat and voltage, without bumping it a bit up to be stable again, because if u set the perfect voltage where your CPU is stable, you have no headroom for degeneration, like with stock voltages.


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## CynicalCreator (Sep 12, 2020)

I've been tweaking my 3600 over the last week or so too, i could run cinebench and games with it at 4.5/1.3v but it wasnt stable after the 1st hard cycle of prime95, not crashing, just workers stopping, and it was only scoring 4025 in cinebench while 4.4 was getting 4000.

Been trying to dial it in to full overnight prime stability. Thought i was good but had 1 stop an hour in at 4.325/1.3v, currently at 4.325/1.30625v a little farther. 4.3/1.3v made it through 2 hours of prime no stoppings, but it couldnt break 3900 in cinebench, close, but whole numbers though...  I'm on the 4th hard cycle with no workers stopping now, hopefully this is the final tweaking. 

Its definitely running games smoother less stutter than the normal boost that maxed at 4."2", and the actual use overall average power consumption looks the same if not better, only hitting the edc cap, 10-20 over ppt and tdp during prime hard cycles though, all within range with games, just a gaming rig so when its on its running full power anyway, not too worried about a little degradation.

But, something i noticed about the volts, like in the screenshot above, my unstable settings always had some cores dropping to 0, and everytime i had prime failures it was on the same cores, pretty sure thats not good

I had thought i was good at 4.4 without doing a real long full stress test, but then i had a game crash and started checking hwinfo meticulously, seen the 0 volts and went back to the drawing board, where i noticed the stopped worker/0 volt core correlation. I havent had any crashes since i got the settings to where the volts dont ever hit 0 though, lowest they droop is 1.244 now

...

Well, as i was writing, a worker failed, almost 2 hours into it, going to try 4.325/1.3125v, i need that totally useless 3900 cinebench score damn it! Does it really matter if only 1 worker is failing? I mean, aside from the stress tests its fine aint it?


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## Chrispy_ (Sep 12, 2020)

As much as overclocking is fun, unless you are doing it solely for the joy of the overclocking experience I'd highly recommend just dialling it back _plenty_.

If you're almost stable at 4.5, then stick with 4.3 and call it a day. It's easy to waste so much time trying to dial in the perfect overclock but your chip will slowly degrade as it ages anyway, so trying to find the exact knife-edge of an OC's stability isn't a long-term plan anyway. If any application crashes you'll always have that nagging "I wonder if it's my overclock" at the back of your mind and you'll go back through another 20 minutes of testing, voltage tweaking, and then another overnight stress test to make sure.

My new 3600XT (don't worry, I didn't make such a foolish purchase with my own money) is actually 1h stable at 4.7@1.375V running an 1866 FCLK but does require more cooling noise than I'm prepared to tolerate and that voltage isn't a good idea long term, nor do I think that's stable enough for a daily driver.

Since this chip will probably live in this particular PC for a good couple of years at least, I've dialled it back to 4.4@1.275V and running a very modest 1733 FCLK with DDR4 tuned to CL14. I'm 100% confident the OC is stable now, and will be still be stable in 3 years from now, all whilst it's running extremely quietly compared to stock PBO.

Sure, my Cinebench R20 score is only 3980 now instead of 4170 but that's barely a 4% performance drop for peace of mind and peace and quiet. I'd likely need to average a few benchmarks to even show that difference over the run-to-run variance, and realistically I'm not going to be able to tell the difference between two experiences within 4% of each other.


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## RainingTacco (Sep 26, 2020)

MrHomieOne said:


> My Ryzen 3600 runs now at 4400 MHz at 1,24 Volts with air cooling (Scythe Mugen 5)



How the hell. I have the same cooler, same cpu and my chip can't hit 4.2 stable with 1.35V during prime95 small FFT 128k size. 4.1 is fine. AVX  prime95 load completely obliterates it and make an instant crash at 4.2.  My CPU is early bin from late july 2019, maybe that's why its so crap?


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## lordcarloske (Sep 30, 2020)

oobymach said:


> I've been pushing my 3600x over 1.3v since I got it, no degradation whatsoever (although I'm not benching it day in day out). Gaming gets it up over 60 degrees but not by much, benching with p95 pushes it up over 80 degrees but that's to be expected, it's a torture test.
> 
> As long as you're using good cooling you can really push these chips hard, max tdp is 95 degrees so as long as it's not shutting down during use you're fine.
> 
> The default voltage in bios is like 1.44v but that's using the fluctuating frequency not a set one.



i can doit easy 43.50 to 1.325 voltios


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## craxton (Nov 10, 2020)

Don't know where to post it so do forgive. My 3600xt is set to 4.5 manual oc @ 1.28volts. I have 3466 mhz ram, infinity fabric is set to 1733. In fsb ratio on Aida and cpuz both say it's like 3:58 or something like that not at home atm. Omw to work (7p.m./7a.m.) I'm wondering how am I to get a 1to1to1 ratio for these? Running an msi mpg x570 gaming wifi edge board. PBO is off, there's no cool and quite inside the bios on 3000 series chips as my 1600af did have this option. Which it clocked at 4.1ghz 1.27 volts...another day. My cin r20 score is 4099 app core, single is 527.. anyhow yea considering my base clock isn't 3600mhz and instead is 4500mhz that would mean I would need an infinity clock of 2250 to get a 1/1/1 ratio or? New new new to zen 2 just got my 3600XT yesterday for 220 bucks...


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## Zach_01 (Nov 11, 2020)

Infinity Fabric is unrelated to CPU speed. It’s related to DRAM speed. Since you run DRAM at 3466, IF should be 1733 along with memory controller, also 1733.
Check ZenTimings software to see all 3 speeds aligned at 1733MHz.
MCLK:FCLK:UCLK


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## Chrispy_ (Nov 11, 2020)

3466 at 1:1:1 will show up as 3:52. I don't know why they use daft fractions, but they all do. AIDA, CPU-Z etc.

FSB runs at 100MHz, and your base clock of 4500MHz just means a 45x multiplier of the 100MHz FSB. Like @Zach_01 says, core clock is unrelated to the memory speed and infinity fabric, they are linked only by the common 100MHz FSB

So your CPU multiplier is 45x
Your fabric, mem controller, and RAM's muliplier is 52/3, and dividing by three gives you 17.33 - so when you multiply that by the 100MHz FSB you get your 1733MHz speed that matches the DDR4-3466 (which runs at 1733 and is only called 3466 because it transfers data twice per clock).

I'm not even sure CPU-Z shows FCLK though, unless it's the NB - but that could just be the memory controller clock as the Northbridge is effectively the IO die on the CPU these days that handles the memory controller duties among other things....


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