# 1,5GB or 2GB RAM?



## gygabite (Dec 28, 2005)

hello!
is for modern games (fear,bf2,civ4,spellforce2,...) 1.5GB ram capacity(3x512) enough or 
should there be at least 2GB(2x512 and 1x1024) on my GA-K8NE?
the framerate in FEAR is 35(average) with my 754 athlon3700+ and 1.5GB RAM
and powercolor-x850xt(non p.e.).
is the low framerate because of the RAM?


----------



## Duncan (Dec 28, 2005)

gygabite said:
			
		

> hello!
> is for modern games (fear,bf2,civ4,spellforce2,...) 1.5GB ram capacity(3x512) enough or
> should there be at least 2GB(2x512 and 1x1024) on my GA-K8NE?
> the framerate in FEAR is 35(average) with my 754 athlon3700+ and 1.5GB RAM
> ...


Id recomend getting 2x1gb RAM to run in dual channel.

I "think" (im no expert) that it may be because of the RAM, because the rest of the system shouldnt cause those framerates. Depends on your exact models of RAM aswell.


----------



## spectre440 (Dec 28, 2005)

possible.
but i dont think putting in another half gig will give you much of an increase.

what kind of RAM do you have? speed? timings?
capacity isnt everything when it comes to RAM.

edit:
on a side note, 35 FPS could be a bit "lowish" to be running a game, but even if you get it to go up to 40-45-50 or more FPS, you yourself will not notice much of a difference.
the average human eye usually can't percieve differences between such high frame rates.
that's why when you go see a film at the cinema, most of the time you'll be viewing the film at 30-35 FPS.


----------



## wtf8269 (Dec 28, 2005)

Duncan said:
			
		

> Id recomend getting 2x1gb RAM to run in dual channel.
> 
> I "think" (im no expert) that it may be because of the RAM, because the rest of the system shouldnt cause those framerates. Depends on your exact models of RAM aswell.


Socket 754 boards don't have dual channel.


----------



## crankydan (Dec 28, 2005)

Duncan said:
			
		

> Id recomend getting 2x1gb RAM to run in dual channel.
> 
> I "think" (im no expert) that it may be because of the RAM, because the rest of the system shouldnt cause those framerates. Depends on your exact models of RAM aswell.




I dont think this board is Dual Channel.


----------



## gygabite (Dec 28, 2005)

*no dual channel on all 754boards*

there's no Dual Channel to use on 754.
My timings:
1.Slot: corsair 2.5-3-3-7
2.Slot:noname(nanya) with 3-3-3-8
3.Slot: corsair 2.5-3-3-7
in my bios i set for all of them 2.5-3-3-6 in ddr400(200MHz)


----------



## Poisonsnak (Dec 28, 2005)

Well the thing I think we all should be asking is what are your settings in FEAR.  I run Doom 3 at 1280x1024 8xAF/2xAA on my X850XT-PE / 1GB RAM / 4400+ and my framerates dip as low as 25 at times (haven't played Doom 3 in a few months but those numbers sound right).

Also I have Civ 4 and it runs great on 1GB so don't worry there.  BF2 on the other hand would probably love 2GB, I know at 1GB there are 2 settings in the video area (can't remember which) that I have to set to medium because at high my framerate according to FRAPS is still in the 50's but I get stutter.


----------



## gygabite (Dec 28, 2005)

Or it could be the software:
i looked in the games section and found someone who has nearly the same problem:
almost highend pc and fear is still lagging.
But the framerate goes in Civ4 down when you zoom out and move the earth,doesnt it?
if not, it's curious.


----------



## CjStaal (Dec 28, 2005)

Dump all your ram and go for 400mhz


----------



## gygabite (Dec 29, 2005)

what does "dump" mean?
shall i throw my ram away although it runs with 2x201 MHz


----------



## Hypersonik (Jan 5, 2006)

Your FEAR frame rate will be limited by your graphics card WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY before your memory gets involved, hell, way before your CPU gets involved!  Changing your memory will do diddly squat to you frame rates.


----------



## trog100 (Jan 7, 2006)

enough memory is enough memory.. if your grfx cards is good enough to run fear at the high quality texture setting.. u need more than one gig of memory.. cos 1 gig of memory isnt enough..

if your grfx card is only good for medium texture settings.. u dont need more than one gig of memory.. 

in fact at low quality texture settings 512 is enough.. 

its all linked.. but no matter how fast your grfx card is.. u do need more than 1 gig of memory to run at high quality texture settings.. with only one gig your machine will be swop filing on a regular basis.. stutter stutter stutter...

1.5 gig is probably enough.. u dont need fast memory but u really do need "enough" memory.. having enough memory means didly f-cking everything.. he he he


trog


----------



## infrared (Jan 7, 2006)

you also need fairly tight timings and fast ram because i found you get frame lag as you go round cirtain corners as the new textures are loaded from the ram into the vram. After tightening my ram timings to 4-4-4-10 @ 275mhz 1:1 it's way smoother!


----------



## AMDCam (Jan 7, 2006)

Hypersonik said:
			
		

> Your FEAR frame rate will be limited by your graphics card WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY before your memory gets involved, hell, way before your CPU gets involved!  Changing your memory will do diddly squat to you frame rates.



That's not really true with FEAR man. It does require plenty of power, but when you've got a great card like he does (X850XT) then RAM is the only thing holding you back. It WILL boost your framerates from a few a second to 30 easily if you have enough RAM. I'd say go 2gb if you want to be ready for the future and have good performance. I assume you're gonna have at least 3 sticks in there (3x512 or 1x1gb and 2x512), so go with the extra gig.

By the way, I know what you mean Hypersonik, because what you're saying is true with almost every game out there BUT f.e.a.r.. I mean it still needs a graphics card first, and that will improve performance better than anything, but it does require plenty of RAM for the top performance.


----------



## trog100 (Jan 7, 2006)

the trouble is a lot of younger generation gamers have kinda grown up in the "cheap" ram era.. ram so cheap everyone has always had more than enough.. 1 gig has always been more than enough.. now it isnt..

high or ultra quality (quake 4) textures are uncompressed ones.. they are that bloody large that there aint enough room in 1 gig of system memory to hold all that needs to be in there..

when this happens your game will keep stopping dead for second or so as windows loads new textures not from its system memory but from its hardrive swopfile.. its pretty easy to see whats happening.. just watch your HD activity led.. if it keeps flashing on during a gaming level u need more system memory..

a swop file is how windows used to keep going before memory was so cheap and then nobody had enough.. just in case anybody wonders.. he he he 

the odd slight slow down as windows loads textures from its real system memory cant be avoided.. cos however fast your system memory is your grfx cards memory is a lot faster and new textures do have to be loaded from system memory during a level..

farcry played nice on my 9700 pro windows 98-se machine with just 512 of system memory.. fear needs two bloody gig..  two gig as the norm is the way things are moving.. but only if u want to play the highest quality textures..

512 memory on low a end grfx is waste of time and nothing short of a con.. with a low end card u also dont need any more than the 1 gig of system memory.. but if your card has the grunt to handle these bigger textures u need enough system memory to hold em.. 

trog


----------



## AMDCam (Jan 7, 2006)

I totally agree Trog


----------



## infrared (Jan 7, 2006)

Nicely explained.


----------



## gygabite (Jan 7, 2006)

I adjusted the detail settings so far, that there are only a little bit unimportant loading lags in
fear.So thanks for explaining the basics with which i optimized the virtual ram and the mem timings


----------



## infrared (Jan 7, 2006)

Yeah, personally i'd say virtual ram isn't enough for that game, the data rates when it's using the virtual ram from the hard drive is way too slow and you'll find the game will freeze for a few seconds at a time when you go round corners. Physical RAM is the best way to play the game.


----------



## Dillinger (Jan 8, 2006)

infrared said:
			
		

> you also need fairly tight timings and fast ram because i found you get frame lag as you go round cirtain corners as the new textures are loaded from the ram into the vram. After tightening my ram timings to 4-4-4-10 @ 275mhz 1:1 it's way smoother!


how do you tighten up the Ram like that? in some server wile playing BF2 I get 45 to 98 FPS wile in others I get 12 to 40 FPS.


----------



## infrared (Jan 8, 2006)

In the bios, the ram timings are all controlled by the chipset. If you open cpuz and go to memory, you can see what timings you have, but the only way i know of changing them is in the bios, so you'll have to have a play!

On my asus p5wd2 prem, the option is under 'chipset' and 'configure dram by speed' [enable][dissable].

If you select dissable, it allows you to choose your own timings.

You may also need to step the ram voltage up to get it stable. My kingston ddr2 ram is 1.8v and it's running at 1.95v


----------



## trog100 (Jan 8, 2006)

"how do you tighten up the Ram like that? in some server wile playing BF2 I get 45 to 98 FPS wile in others I get 12 to 40 FPS."

your ram timings have nothing to do with fps variations from server to server.. this just has to be down to the quality of the connection between u and the server.. pick one with a poor connection tween u and it and your game wont play very well..

i spose now everyone has broadband connections folks just expect things to "work"..  folks who remember online gaming with dial-up will know differently.. he he

trog


----------



## infrared (Jan 8, 2006)

LOL, memories of dial up online gaming!!! talk about lag!


----------



## internal (Jan 16, 2006)

Heh, a commie TELLING US 35fps is enough.

That's not how things work in at least my country.  

I now a guy that gets pissed when it drops below his montior refresh rate and I know another that plays games as slide shows to just get the graphics to look the way he wants them.


----------



## infrared (Jan 16, 2006)

yeah, i see the difference when my fps drops below my monitor refresh rate with the games i play... To be honest, with FEAR, my graphics card isn't enough, just about coping at 25-30fps with all maximum detail settings on, but in games like BF2, in close combat with lots of people... you really do need those frames per second if you wanna stay alive! That and a decent gaming mouse.

So... i don't know what games you play russianboy... but 35fps is NOT enough for me and most other people here.


----------



## trog100 (Jan 16, 2006)

my fear fps after very carefull playing with settings are according to its test settings thingy..

min 40 fps..

average 78 fps

max 178 fps 

with 96% above 40 fps..

thats at 1024 x  768 with 2 x AA.. and definitely not with everything maxed out..

is that enough.. hmm.. not really.. its just that with a half decent rig i have only just upgraded i dont like feeling i have to turn the bloody settings down any more.. he he

in perfect world never seeing less than 60 fps is enough i think.. sadly i dont f-cking live in one.. he he

i do agree about the decent mouse thow.. and a half decent keyboard.. 

trog


----------



## Arachnis (May 9, 2006)

*My FEAR test Settings*

This is my system:

AMD 3200+ Venice Core 1.4v
Chaitech Vnf4/Ultra
120 gb Seagate HD
160 gb Western Digital HD
2GB Corsair XMS (2-2-3-6)
Sony DVD burner 
XFX Nvidia 7800GT
Creative Audigy 2 ZS
19" AG Neovo F-419R LCD (12Ms)


With the system set up as is and the CPU and GPU settings all set to the max ingame I get the following:
Min. 32
Average 58
Max. 135

IF you enable V-sync, these values go down to like 60 max 40 something average and 30 min. 

 to the 2gb of ram. IF you can afford it, get it. I woulda put4gb in but the mobo manual says that it doesnt recommend using all 4 slots. Makes alot of sense huh.


----------



## KennyT772 (May 9, 2006)

1024x2 would be best performing. but you might just want to wait until vista for upgrades...seeing how ddr2 is about to take over all and ddr is about dead.


----------



## trog100 (May 9, 2006)

not enough ram dosnt cause low frame rates.. not one of u guys has the faintest idea of what not enough ram does.. he he he

not enough ram is obvious.. swopfiling is obviouse.. u will soon know if u suffer from it.. he he

quiet clearly not none of u have.. he he

trog


----------



## Satchmo (May 9, 2006)

KennyT772 said:
			
		

> 1024x2 would be best performing. but you might just want to wait until vista for upgrades...seeing how ddr2 is about to take over all and ddr is about dead.



ddr is not about dead, lol thats like saying pc3200 is dead.

i have a laptop with pc100, is my ram just going to fall out and shatter on the floor?

internet connection has nothing to do with fps, UNLESS a connection error occurs and the game is programmed to pause the gameplay in such a case.

ram does have something to do with fps but not the difference between being able to play and not.

turning around a corner in fear means new textures are going to be loaded, if they arnt in your physicalram because you dont have enough, it will then load from swap file or possibly from compressed packages from the game directory.

if you dont have enough ram you will quickly notice, because its simply the difference of transfering information from your ram to your video card at ~3200mbps and 50mbps from the harddrive swap file.


----------



## KennyT772 (May 9, 2006)

well satchmo ddr is in the state that agp was in when pci-e was finally on intel and amd. it will still be made and en mass but its downhill from here. within 6 months all major prefab builders will cease buying ddr1 and then prices will slowly climb like agp cards have...


----------



## JC316 (May 11, 2006)

Something is wrong and it's not the amount of ram in your system. I run F.E.A.R at 1024x768, Max CPU, 4xAA and everything turned on except soft shadows. My numbers go 18 Min, 45 Ave, and 117 max. My system specs are that way <---. If you have AGP, turn the fast writes off.


----------

