# Do you think PC gamers are being shafted lately?



## Mussels (Mar 3, 2010)

Here is a list of things PC gamers have been screwed with recently:


Modern Warfare 2: no dedicated servers, in game features (lean for example) cut back since they didnt work on console


Bad company 2: Great game? yeah, its awesome. Lets play it on LAN.. oh i cant. you cant host your own servers, lan or internet. joy. this is almost as bad as MW2.

Dawn of war II: while more of an experiment, it started a trend of sequels having very different gameplay to the original game. This started off teh following...

Supreme commander 2: massively dumbed down so that its console-friendly, as well as simplified and turned from "one of the best RTS games" into "one of the blandest RTS games"

CnC4: while i have no real experience here, comments from beta users indicate its followed DOW II, and is barely an RTS game any more.

Assasins creed 2: delayed several months (so spoilers are inevitable), PC gamers save files are stored online. no offline play.


i'm sure theres tons more - what do you all think? are PC gamers getting the shaft in favour of consoles? is the trend of making games simple and stupid to appeal to 'the mass market' leading to the downfall of PC gaming?


----------



## assaulter_99 (Mar 3, 2010)

Yeah mussels, I guess you already know what we think about it. They have shafted something up our *rse! rofl. This is a sad and worrying trend developing here. I guess we have to keep an eye on how things turn out, its already bad as it is. I have more thorough thoughts and ideas about that but I have to go now, I'll point them maybe later.


----------



## ste2425 (Mar 3, 2010)

I dont realy play games online so i crn't comment on lack of dedicated servers, lag and all that jazz but it is kind of anoying when playing games and they still have the pop of menus saying 'press x to accept'. A very anoying game for me that felt very much like a bad port was frontline fuels of war. But then on the other hand i have to say theres been some ports that i have found very entertainging and enjoyed playing. Timeshift for example, Fuel, was dead space a port or not i aint too sure. But the point is i dont think ports are possibly a bad thing i think its the amount of time and the quality of the port that is the issue.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 3, 2010)

ste: we arent discussing ports so specifically. sup com 2 is not a port, for example. please read the post again.


----------



## douglatins (Mar 3, 2010)

The only developer that still cares about us is valve and epic, but i do think that valve should have put a non console browser
I played supcom2 beta and wow, that was simple


----------



## TIGR (Mar 3, 2010)

Mussels said:


> are PC gamers getting the shaft



Yep.


----------



## ste2425 (Mar 3, 2010)

Mussels said:


> ste: we arent discussing ports so specifically. sup com 2 is not a port, for example. please read the post again.



ok sorry i read the original post in a hurry and did not get the full picture. My previous comment still stand mind you


----------



## Marineborn (Mar 3, 2010)

i have a ps3 and a 360 and i have a very good high end computer , and i have this high end computer for 1 reason to play video games that i cant play on the console, and this makes me xtremly sad and feels like im getting shafted when all these great pc games are getting dumbed down for the consoles, dont get me wrong some games are great on the consoles and some games are great on the pc, but pleae the games for the pc Make em for the pc JUST THE PC dont make em for everything...*sigh*


----------



## JackAttack (Mar 3, 2010)

Mussels said:


> i'm sure theres tons more - what do you all think? are PC gamers getting the shaft in favour of consoles? is the trend of making games simple and stupid to appeal to 'the mass market' leading to the downfall of PC gaming?



Yes, I believe that is the case.
The bigger question is what can be done about it?

Money talks, bs walks.

Console games outsell pc games bigtime, from what I see.

The Gamestop people I have spoken with agree, they told me the difference is huge in their sales. And I have been to 3 of their stores, all the same feedback from them.

If I was a developer I'd certainly go where the money is, wouldn't you?

Any ideas on what can be done to change this?

Raise prices perhaps?

What about the pc video card manufacturers...they are selling us cards for outrageous sums of money and they need sales. Maybe THEY need to get involved in this too. They won't be selling many cards if there are no pc buyers.
They have money to help fight this trend and again, money talks.


----------



## Marineborn (Mar 3, 2010)

alot of people arnet smart face it, lol thats the problem, hey a console i can just buy a game and pop it no problem, i dont have to install, worry about drivers, worry about bug, worry about crashed, worry about have the requirment...dur dur dur dur...DUR!


----------



## Mussels (Mar 3, 2010)

JackAttack said:


> Any ideas on what can be done to change this?
> 
> Raise prices perhaps?



raise up a big outcry.

The point is - when game devs realize that PC gamers are sick of this bullshit and will pay for games without it, then the game devs will make games the way we want. With all the bells and whistles, with the customization we're used to and with dedicated servers coming on the damn game DVD.


the only way to make these morons realize it however, is to make complaints all over the place, make the general public aware - get it into the news.


----------



## JackAttack (Mar 3, 2010)

Mussels said:


> raise up a big outcry.
> 
> The point is - when game devs realize that PC gamers are sick of this bullshit and will pay for games without it, then the game devs will make games the way we want. With all the bells and whistles, with the customization we're used to and with dedicated servers coming on the damn game DVD.
> 
> ...



OK, how do we as a community, get this in the news?


----------



## TVman (Mar 3, 2010)

MONEY MONEY MONEY thats all that matters :shadedshu


----------



## dinjo_jo (Mar 3, 2010)

Good that AC II DRM has got a slappy reply from crackers


----------



## Mussels (Mar 3, 2010)

JackAttack said:


> OK, how do we as a community, get this in the news?



talk about it. post about it. email people about it. every time a game comes out with this shit, go rant on their forums.


----------



## Marineborn (Mar 3, 2010)

i say we.......send them a nasty peice of mail. thell be like dam these people hate us they took time to mail us a letter, that takes alot of hate. HAHAHAHA


----------



## JackAttack (Mar 3, 2010)

Mussels has a good idea. If we can get the entire TPU pc gamer community involved in writing letters and posting on the game site forums, maybe we will get a response and some positive results.


----------



## Frick (Mar 3, 2010)

TVman said:


> MONEY MONEY MONEY thats all that matters :shadedshu



And that is in no way suprising. They gotta make a profit, otherwise they will be out of bussiness. It's the way things works.

That being said, I really think gaming as a whole has gone downhill the past years. They feel like they are more the products of corporations rather than crazy minds. There are exceptions of course (like anything Tim Schafer is involved in), but that's how it feels. And the PC gamers are even worse treated by the companies than the console huggers.

And this here article is pretty old, but still interesting, and very sad. Maybe it is the money's fault.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 3, 2010)

Frick: you're missing the point. when PC gamers stop buying these shit games, and spend the money supporting the few devs who make PC games for PC's, then they'll realize THAT is where the money is. we just need to make them realize it!


----------



## JackAttack (Mar 3, 2010)

Lets start a list of places to go and make it easy for the guys.

Heres the first place...
http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/categories/list.page


----------



## AsRock (Mar 3, 2010)

Mussels said:


> Frick: you're missing the point. when PC gamers stop buying these shit games, and spend the money supporting the few devs who make PC games for PC's, then they'll realize THAT is where the money is. we just need to make them realize it!



The moneys were they can poop out a game every few months as PEOPLE will buy.  And 1/2 the time you don't know it's a shi game till you have brought it. People are like sheep...

There is only one company that i like still and thats Bioware although feeling kinda pissed about the x pac to  Dragon Age were the addon if brought with Origins it's only $15 which only says one thing  Short as hell. But this is more of of a EA thing i bet and don't like Bioware sleeping with EA as EA don't give a flying fck about gamers.

IS there enough of us to help change how things are ?.  I would say no due to the fact were games are made better all so cost as much as a game that is fubar.  People cannot resist  in buying a game and a lot of it is due to HOPE.


----------



## A Cheese Danish (Mar 3, 2010)

I have to agree that we, PC gamers, are getting the shaft.
I will do what I can to get back what we used to have!


----------



## Thrackan (Mar 3, 2010)

Forget "lately". PC gamers are being shafted ever since the current gen of consoles (x360, ps3, wii) were born.


----------



## JackAttack (Mar 3, 2010)

I started something over there, at EA.
Lets see what the response is.
http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/0/422490.page#3939209


----------



## MatTheCat (Mar 3, 2010)

Frick said:


> That being said, I really think gaming as a whole has gone downhill the past years. They feel like they are more the products of corporations rather than crazy minds. There are exceptions of course (like anything Tim Schafer is involved in), but that's how it feels. And the PC gamers are even worse treated by the companies than the console huggers.



I agree with this.....

Most modern games are just plain boring and unimaginative. Some may say that I just getting older but then I can still pick ancient titles (such as Gothic 2) and find myself totally immersed in it just as I was the first time around. Furthermore, there is still yet to be a FPS that tops BF2...a 5 year old game!

As for recent titles:

Borderlands.......ZZZZzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzz
Wolfenstien........Ok for a few hours play but then.....ZZZZZzzzzzzzZZ
Assasins Creed....omfzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzg
Modern Warfare 2.....Now the single player I do like....but it is more of a cinematic special effects feast than an actual 'game'.
Fallout 3 .....OverratedzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzzz

All of the above titles get rave reviews.....but they are all quite simply mediocre, at best (with exception of MW2).

The list goes on.


----------



## Triprift (Mar 3, 2010)

I have to agree to apart from the rare gems like Bioshock 2 im finding more and more getting into  indy games.There not the prettiest but there actually fun something that alot of developers shun there faces at.


----------



## Velvet Wafer (Mar 3, 2010)

MatTheCat said:


> I agree with this.....
> 
> Most modern games are just plain boring and unimaginative. Some may say that I just getting older but then I can still pick ancient titles (such as Gothic 2) and find myself totally immersed in it just as I was the first time around. Furthermore, there is still yet to be a FPS that tops BF2...a 5 year old game!
> 
> ...



lol, you obviously dont like the thematic of Fallout 3.
Now that was really a good game, and due to its DLC, it wont get too boring, even after months... i still havent gamed all the way thru... and then there are mods... which add quite so much content,its a whole new game.... really, i agree with you... but dont be respectless against Fallout


----------



## Mussels (Mar 3, 2010)

can we please not turn this into an argument about what games you did and didn't like? its completely off topic.


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 3, 2010)

Im a console gamer (one of the enemy), but even I can see how the PC gamer is getting bent over, lubed and penitrated!


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Mar 3, 2010)

Haemimont Games (Tropico 3) and GSC Game World (S.T.A.L.K.E.R.) haven't given in to the console crowd yet (thank god).  It's getting pretty damn depressing.


I would put Mass Effect 2 on that list as well but I know many disagree with me on that one...


----------



## boise49ers (Mar 3, 2010)

JackAttack said:


> Yes, I believe that is the case.
> The bigger question is what can be done about it?
> 
> Money talks, bs walks.
> ...



Good point Jack. They would fold if PC gaming went down the tubes.


----------



## boise49ers (Mar 3, 2010)

HookeyStreet said:


> Im a console gamer (one of the enemy), but even I can see how the PC gamer is getting bent over, lubed and penitrated!



I think they skipped the lubed part though.


----------



## douglatins (Mar 3, 2010)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Haemimont Games (Tropico 3) and GSC Game World (S.T.A.L.K.E.R.) haven't given in to the console crowd yet (thank god).  It's getting pretty damn depressing.
> 
> 
> I would put Mass Effect 2 on that list as well but I know many disagree with me on that one...




Tropico 3 is on 360 now


----------



## majestic12 (Mar 3, 2010)

I think that generally PC gamers get a crappier deal now.  My favorite PC exclusive from the last few years was Crysis -I could show my console buddies how much more eye candy could be produced from a decent computer over an Xbox or Playstation.  Even though it seems most games are catered more for the consoles now, it's not completely terrible yet.  I don't see the consoles producing the same games with the same level of detail or resolution that a decent PC can provide.  The loss of features (I was upset over no local hosting in Bad Company 2) sucks, but the PC's still do better jobs than consoles.  Reminds me of the old Doom and Wolfenstein games being released for the SNES, Jaguar, etc. in the 90's.  I was upset to see my computer not be the exclusive way to play those games, but laughed when I saw how they rendered it in comparison.  The budgets in producing the games has gone up exponentially as well.  With the larger budgets, a company has to cater to a larger demographic, which means that consoles rule supreme.  At least my computer won't have to be upgraded as much to play current games...


----------



## Lionheart (Mar 3, 2010)

Yes we PC gamers are getting fuked over big time, its been happening more and more over the passing yrs and its not getting any better. Mussels idea seems pretty good and Im here to help spread this important complaint all over the internet.


----------



## H82LUZ73 (Mar 3, 2010)

HookeyStreet said:


> Im a console gamer (one of the enemy), but even I can see how the PC gamer is getting bent over, lubed and penitrated!



Yeah thanks for reminding us of the X-Box up there .....


----------



## majestic12 (Mar 3, 2010)

We should all meet somewhere (outside a game software company preferrably) with pitchforks and torches demanding more PC exclusives!


----------



## douglatins (Mar 3, 2010)

AC2 is beyond justification and there should be scheduled pile burns of any copies of the game and a DDOS attack on their servers


----------



## Triprift (Mar 3, 2010)

Lets be realistic ppl if more ppl actually bought the games instead of getting pirated copies it would help also. And why all this lets rebel stuff like rebelling against the guys that make the games is gonna work. Thats like all the hate mail Michael Atkinson gets doesnt help gamers cause one bit just makes us look as bad guys.


----------



## CDdude55 (Mar 3, 2010)

Yes PC gamers do tend to get the shit end of the stick. But you find the most money in the mainstream, so that's where most devs want to dig.(Consoles)

Once Episode 3 and Rage is out it'll all be better.(for me at least.)lol


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Mar 3, 2010)

douglatins said:


> Tropico 3 is on 360 now


It's got problems and support for the Xbox360 isn't their highest priority (e.g. focus on Expansion Packs rather than DLCs).


----------



## wolf (Mar 3, 2010)

yes, shafted, large rusty pole...

Star Wars The Force Unleashed is about THE worst port i have ever seen, you can only select your res, no other gfx options, hell they didnt even care to bump the fps cap from 30 to 60...

the ones mentioned already in this thread hold true too, were getting eff'd in the a


----------



## Mussels (Mar 3, 2010)

Triprift said:


> Lets be realistic ppl if more ppl actually bought the games instead of getting pirated copies it would help also. And why all this lets rebel stuff like rebelling against the guys that make the games is gonna work. Thats like all the hate mail Michael Atkinson gets doesnt help gamers cause one bit just makes us look as bad guys.



no it doesnt, we buy these shit games and they'll think its what we want, and keep selling them.


----------



## Triprift (Mar 3, 2010)

Well then write letters to the developers and write in a clear and consise manner and not you guys suck we hate you stuff because you wont get a favourable response that way.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 3, 2010)

Triprift said:


> Well then write letters to the developers and write in a clear and consise manner and not you guys suck we hate you stuff because you wont get a favourable response that way.



yes, if you do email/post on forums - dont make it all ragey hatmail that will just get deleted and ignored. Give them rational reasoning.

Also, speak with your wallet - when great games come out on PC, pay for them. (stalker CoP comes to mind here)


----------



## Triprift (Mar 3, 2010)

Indeed thank you Mussels thats what i was trying to say. 

Just trying to be level headed about it.


----------



## Soylent Joe (Mar 3, 2010)

Yeah, we're getting shafted in every possible sense of the word. Sucks man.


----------



## DannibusX (Mar 3, 2010)

I think a lot of what is happening in PC gaming is due to the large publishing companies like Activision and EA.  Everyone that is a big fan of gaming knows that Bobby Kotick is all about the bottom line when it comes to developing games.  CoD is a prime example of that.  Compare IW to Valve.  Valve still makes great games for the PC because they are still independent, IW started on the PC, but has focused on consoles for a few years.

The DLC thing that is popular with consoles (and coming soon to a PC near you!) really bugs me.  I prefer complete games that can be expanded on, but I stopped playing Dragon Age when I found several quests that required me to buy DLC to complete.  That is inexcusible.

I'm not going to buy many games this year, I'm going to be ultra selective.  If there is a console game that I really want to play from a company that I don't really want to contribute to, I'll buy it used from Gamestop or something.


----------



## epicfail (Mar 3, 2010)

> Originally Posted by JackAttack
> Yes, I believe that is the case.
> The bigger question is what can be done about it?
> 
> ...



there would still be video cards sold, there would still be the need for those that use more power hungry programs, they might not sell as much, and they wouldnt sell the top top cards but they would still get sold nonetheless, i agree with you though it would really remove lots of there funds if this happened.


----------



## DrPepper (Mar 3, 2010)

Yes we have been shafted I can't even walk straight anymore


----------



## digibucc (Mar 3, 2010)

Triprift said:


> Lets be realistic ppl if more ppl actually bought the games instead of getting pirated copies it would help also.



that is such a lame argument. where people get the idea that a pirated copy is a lost sale , is beyond me. it doesn't make any rational sense.
of the people that WOULD purchase the game, I only see them going to pirated copies when a game is not released on time, or it has insane DRM. not that that justifies it, but it IS something the companies could easily rectify. Also, there are NO statistics backing up the claims that piracy hurts sales. there are many statistics backing up the other side.

obviously it's not, right.  i like to give money for something i appreciate, I like to have a collection of games that I OWN. but it's a reason, and it is something, again, that the Pubs/Devs COULD do something about, if they weren't crying wolf.

the fact is there are simply not enough hardcore pc gamers to compete with the console crowd.  it is lowest common denominator - and many of us complaining about the shafting (me included) have 1 or MORE consoles as well. we purchase those games too, a lot of us.

the point is, i have no idea what can be done. i simply don't know if there are enough of us to make an impact on the market. that is compounded by the fact that the BIGGEST Pc games purchasers are Russian and Asian .... communication, rallying, standing together - is much harder when you can't talk to each other.


----------



## Taz100420 (Mar 3, 2010)

See as to Mussels has said, they release crap games and they wont know till they buy it. I will d/l a game try it (only a few mins to a few hours into it to see if I like it) If I do like it, I will go out and buy the actual copy of it and play. If I dont like it, I will just uninstall and delete all traces of it. The demos of games just isnt enough. I have done this to most all my games after I bought Starshatter....NEVER again will I buy a game off the whim w/o much knowledge of it or cool commercials/packaging. Flame all ya guys want under ur breaths, its my way of saving money in this strapped economy.

Save the PC Gaming community!!!!!


----------



## Fourstaff (Mar 3, 2010)

Triprift said:


> Lets be realistic ppl if more ppl actually bought the games instead of getting pirated copies it would help also. And why all this lets rebel stuff like rebelling against the guys that make the games is gonna work. Thats like all the hate mail Michael Atkinson gets doesnt help gamers cause one bit just makes us look as bad guys.



DRM and no resale value of most games drove me away from new purchases, no Lan gaming, the list goes on. I know someone who pirated L4D and was able to play it through lan and without steam, 2 big pluses.  Still gaming on age old games, Warcraft 3:TFT, Heroes of Might and Magic 3 and so on. My internet has no connection to Steam and things like that, so I can only do Lan gaming.


----------



## johnnyfiive (Mar 3, 2010)

The main thing PC's have going for them that consoles can't replicate are MMORG's. Thats the sad truth. Game dev's will keep making games for all platforms because thats how they make the most money. More money is needed for more games. More games are needed because the gaming community (Major platforms, 360/PS3/PC) is demanding and they want more games to play. 

Think about the last 3 years. How many *epic* games have come out across all the major platforms? L4D 1 & 2, Boarderlands, Assassins Creed 1 & 2, Modern Warfare 1 & 2, Mass Effect 1 & 2 (PC and 360), Dead Space, GTA 4, I can name games all day.

The fact is, the console gaming community is what DRIVES THE GAMING DEVELOPMENT MARKET. It's the only way companies can get enough money to keep making the games WE ALL want to play. If the 360, PS3 and even the Wii didn't exist, I guarantee you we'd all be playing some sort of MMORPG or RTS game right now.

I blame Cliffy B. from EPIC games for making the statement that PC game was dying... i didn't know he was the lemming every game dev would follow. 

*
"I think people would rather make a game that sells 4.5 million copies than a million and Gears is at 4.5 million right now on the 360," he said. 

"I think the PC is just in disarray... What's driving the PC right now is Sims-type games and WoW and a lot of stuff that's in a web-based interface. You just click on it and play it. That's the direction PC is evolving into. So for me, the PC is kind of the secondary part of what we're doing. It's important for us, but right now making AAA games on consoles is where we're at." - Cliffy B. from Epic
*

Truth hurts, but I'm telling you guys, this is how things are and how they will continue to be. Game dev's make games for consoles first because thats how they get money BACK. There are way more console gamers in comparison to PC gamers. Its cheaper to buy a console and it doesn't require any troubleshooting knowledge to operate. Its only smart game dev's market to their products to the bigger buying market, console gaming. But this isn't entirely bad for us PC gamers, and I will tell you why in one sentence. 

If game dev's didn't make millions due to console sales, they wouldn't be around. 

So its a catch 22. We hate the "ported" games, but at least we have game titles on PC at all. They could really screw us and make all these games we've been playing for the last 3-4 years console exclusive. And don't think Blizzard and or Value are high and mighty and are only thinking of PC gamers (first). If WoW could run on a 360 or PS3, I'm sure Blizzard would make it happen, lol.


----------



## Reefer86 (Mar 3, 2010)

The thing that i hate is DLC, where has this come from ......... alot of DLC was all ready there in games but they then decide to take out parts of games, side story's and optional missions. which were available in older games. Now they take parts out of games and charge us for it, these are not add ons as such they are unlocked content, that we would have got for nothing pre current gen consoles. I hate DLC really annoys me that they do it, to me that is plain BS. 

DLC does not add to a game, it takes stuff away from us and then sold back to us. I hate in reviews when they says o yeah and there will be DLC ......... erm we should of had that in the first place!


----------



## johnnyfiive (Mar 3, 2010)

And where did DLC come from?

*XBOX LIVE and Playstation Network*


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Mar 3, 2010)

There's plenty of PC-only developers releasing dozens of budget titles and also those pushing the envelope like GCS Game World.

It is very simple, there's over one billion computers in use in the world.  Make a game for $20 that only half of those people buy and you're looking at $10,000,000,000 in potential revenue.  The market is unquestionably there: the problem is finding the right product at the right price with the right availability.


----------



## johnnyfiive (Mar 3, 2010)

Well yeah, FarmVille runs fine on anything and so do Flash and Java based games, but the big dev's are what I think people are talking about in this thread. EA, Valve, IW, id, Bethesda, BioWare, DICE,  etc.


----------



## erocker (Mar 3, 2010)

Consoles and computers have pretty much existed together for a couple decades now. How do you think PC users felt about Atari users? I don't see a problem only consistency. It is consistent that PC users like to bitch about consoles and vice-versa. Nothing has changed other than the market getting bigger. Both consoles and PC's have more software to use than ever before. The only people getting shafted are those who feel they are getting shafted. They aren't, but it's fun to think so.


I need the option: "I'm a gamer and I don't care, nor do I have a reason to."


----------



## 1Kurgan1 (Mar 3, 2010)

I do think we are getting shafted, but not all for the same reasons, I could honestly careless about LAN on BC2, or most things since there are no LAN parties around here. But beyond that, yep, a lt of things have been consolized and it's nice to see a PC standout now and then.

And I agree with erocker, there is another poll option missing. There are some people mostly happy with how things are, I can't say I am completely, but for the most part I got what I want on PC.


----------



## Fourstaff (Mar 3, 2010)

[/Sarcasm] I dont see why developers should be bothered to develop games for consoles, afterall, they design and make their games on PCs anyway. [sarcasm]


----------



## bpgt64 (Mar 3, 2010)

*Obvious Answer*

The problem is that software theft is on the rise;  One way to prevent someone from playing on line is by removing any offline component of multiplayer.  I believe in the future most games will go to a mini-WoW based model; with 2.00USD/month for online access.  Just look at Sc2..or any other online game coming out.  They need to reinvent the model for profitability sake.


----------



## rampage (Mar 3, 2010)

shafted yes, it's a sad fact but its where the market is going, console, easy to code for devs, cheap to buy, easy for the end user to use... and look at pc's (in au$)  roughly $2000 for a "gaming pc" a console (dont realy know)  but what $500 ish..   even so its about 1/4 to 1/3rd  of the price and of course thats where the dev's and end users are going to head..   sad but true,  but honistly no matter no matter what us die hard pc gamers do consoles will win this battle, i think in the long run we will loose  ..

its a sad world but $$$ dose make the world and i am sure if dev's could spend extra time on us pc gamers they would, but share holders want their profit each quater and sadly that lies with consoles

(but all that being said we can make out point known and delay this enavitable day of doom when pc gamers die in the shados of consoles (rember their competing GFX wise more and more with pc's then ever, it's just the interface that drages them down (contoles), damn these console gamers )

edit:  please note i am a die hard pc gamer and hope i will be till the day i die and dont owen a console,  but the market is the market


----------



## bpgt64 (Mar 3, 2010)

You make some good poings Rampage;  There are obvious advantages to consoles;

Here's where I think gaming is heading.  Dedicated gaming hardware, such as a console..However the addition of keyboard and mice support for consoles is on the horizon.  I would hope it would be universally supported in the next gen of consoles.


----------



## Steevo (Mar 3, 2010)

I haven't bought any of the games you listed for the reasons posted.


I will prefer to run a older game I have control over and mod it than pay $50 for a game that has only slightly better graphics and worse options.


----------



## Champ (Mar 3, 2010)

I don't know how many of you guys have heard of the upcoming football game BackBreaker.  I badly want this game and it isn't gonna be released for PC, so I had to buy a 360.  I've had multiple failure will the 360 before and only one failure with my PC that was solved with a PSU upgrade.  I really love the companies that make PC only games and games with requirements so high console would struggle to run them.  That's the only thing keeping us from sinking.


----------



## shevanel (Mar 3, 2010)

start a new website "approved by gamers" or someshit.. review games and stamp it with approval whenever it has that approval of your sites pc gaming community.

Compile a list of games past and preset, developer trends, habits fails and wins.

would be rediculous hard to accomplish though bec the average joe will buy any game if the commercial looks good regardless of the ratings or the games features


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 3, 2010)

johnnyfiive said:


> Truth hurts, but I'm telling you guys, this is how things are and how they will continue to be. Game dev's make games for consoles first because *thats how they get money BACK.* There are way more console gamers in comparison to PC gamers. Its cheaper to buy a console and it doesn't require any troubleshooting knowledge to operate. Its only smart game dev's market to their products to the bigger buying market, console gaming. But this isn't entirely bad for us PC gamers, and I will tell you why in one sentence.
> 
> *If game dev's didn't make millions due to console sales, they wouldn't be around.*



That is absolutely false and that's what publishers want to make you/us believe. It's not about getting money back or having a sustained market or whatever way you want to look at it. It's only about making money, loads and loads of money.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Innovation...ern-warfare-2-sales-nuke-all-previous-records



> Let's break down the numbers. Modern Warfare 2 sold 4.7 million copies in the first 24 hours, *earning $310 million*. Those sales figures only count North America and the UK. Worldwide figures will roll in soon, snowballing well beyond the *$155 million that box-office record-breaker "The Dark Knight"* raked in during its opening weekend.



How can anyone justify what's happening to games based in ANY economic argument, when games that cost (way) less than $25 millions to make earn twice as much as movies that cost well in excess of $100-200 millions. You can't. There's simply no argument. There's no argument towards: "We have to abandon PC gaming because consoles is the only way to survive."

Half-Life sold 8 million copies, many other great PC games sold a lot too, Starcraft, Command&Conquer comes to mind. So it was a good selling platform. Even Half-Life 2 has sold tons of copies, but no one really knows how much because most of them were bought through Steam and statistics only show retail. It still sold 4 millions. More recently Crysis easily surpassed the million in this convoluted PC market. Crysis that could only run on 5% of PCs out there.

But now, those were GOOD games. And as the good games they were, they sold. It's the crappy console ports that don't sell. If you make a dumbed down console game and a crappy port to PC, you can't expect to sell on the PC. In no way the PC gaming community has abandoned PC gaming. It's the people making the games who have abandoned us, and not because that's the only thing they can do to survive as it shows the numbers I posted. It's really significant when one game's profit margins exceeds the movies profits in a 10 to 1 basis. There's no excuse.

Sorry for the rant.

EDIT: Note that my argument is not against console games. It's about making crappy PC ports with the excuse that it's not financially viable to make it a good port or even a slightly different -better for PC- game. When a game costs $25 million to make, and most of it comes from marketing and distribution expenses, you just can justify the lack of a proper port. You are going to earn $300 millions in the first weeked FFS!! Expend an extra of $5 millions and give everybody the game they deserve.

EDIT2: Revenues (I did just a quick search, you all are free to find other links): 

Electronic Arts: http://investor.ea.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=436876



> Non-GAAP net revenue is expected to be $4.125 billion to $4.2 billion for fiscal year 2010 versus prior guidance of $4.2 billion to $4.4 billion.



Time Warner: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/05/time-warner-profits-beat_n_141373.html



> Revenue was essentially flat at $11.71 billion, compared with $11.68 billion last year, and below analysts' expectations of $11.9 billion.



Doesn't anyone see something that is wrong here? Yeah, Time Wagner's is 3 times higher, but we are talking about Time Wagner!! They operate on films, TV, press... AND games!

Disney: http://www.allbusiness.com/north-america/united-states-california-metro-areas/114780-1.html



> Disney revenues were $1.3 billion, up 23 percent from $1 billion they year before. Net income was $174.4 million, up 18 percent.



Activision: http://www.edge-online.com/news/activision-profits-jump-sevenfold



> Due to the delays, the publisher adjusted its revenue outlook for calendar 2009 down from $4.3 billion to $4.05 billion.


----------



## shevanel (Mar 3, 2010)

so you are the 1 vote for here for No?

lol i do see your points though and they are probbaly valid. and at the end of the day its all about game makers.


----------



## newtekie1 (Mar 3, 2010)

I haven't really bothered to do much but skim the topic.  So I'm just going to say what I think.  The PC gamers are certainly not being shafted.  We PC gamers were used to a higher standard that console games.  However, due to many issues in the present world, what we have been given recently has been games that are essentially console games.  I would say we are being shafted if we were getting worse quality games, but we aren't.


----------



## MK4512 (Mar 3, 2010)

Wow! 74 to 1!

I think that Console games are moving away from local multiplayer, which are the only freakin' reason I bought them in the first place! 

Yeah, but no LAN support in CNC4 and Starcraft II?

Come on Blizzard (and to a lesser extent EA*), you know everyone is going to buy Starcraft anyways, why should you remove functionality?

*Because probably not everyone is going to buy CNC4, especially with all the cutting out of buildings. DAMN YOU STREAMLINING!


----------



## Triprift (Mar 3, 2010)

digibucc said:


> that is such a lame argument. where people get the idea that a pirated copy is a lost sale , is beyond me. it doesn't make any rational sense.
> of the people that WOULD purchase the game, I only see them going to pirated copies when a game is not released on time, or it has insane DRM. not that that justifies it, but it IS something the companies could easily rectify. Also, there are NO statistics backing up the claims that piracy hurts sales. there are many statistics backing up the other side.
> 
> obviously it's not, right.  i like to give money for something i appreciate, I like to have a collection of games that I OWN. but it's a reason, and it is something, again, that the Pubs/Devs COULD do something about, if they weren't crying wolf.
> ...



Oh come on it has to have some impact there are ppl who will not buy the games full stop and only get pirated. Crumbs i had the shock of my life yesterday when i went past my local movie shop and noticed it was only a quarter of its original size. Now it could be other factors like not  great service but my guess movie piracy would have an impact with it and there are others who have closed piracy does have an impact.


----------



## Irish_PXzyan (Mar 3, 2010)

The only reason why PC gaming is sucking for me lately is because consoles is where the money is.
if pirating was not around then it would be the same as it was around 5-6 years ago.
Sure didn't MW2 get over 4+ million illegal downloads??

i don't even feel like buying new computer parts anymore either...there's no PC games out there that makes me want to spend cash.
Ive spent little on my PS3 and it's more fun on it.
Of course games are just better on it.. like Uncharted 2, MGS4, MAG and so on...I just don't see much effort being put into PC gamers anymore.


----------



## kurosagi01 (Mar 3, 2010)

my rant will be why the hell is crytek making crysis 2 for consoles now?? i hope they make it better for us PC gamers since it should of been a PC exclusive..i got feeling people going rant how awesome the consoles can play a game like crysis 2 so i think crysis 1 graphics probably going be better than 2.

I don't mind either console or PC gaming since i was a console gamer from start and have stuck with it for years now but since i got introduce into pc gaming my maturity you could say towards gaming is lot better on the PC where the community is better while you get 10 year old little boys ranting how good they are in games.

I get tons of crap about people talking about how awesome console is and they say how PC is crap because its too expensive?? the other day i just loled at my friend whos a sony PS3 fan when the PSN network got bugged he was ranting how if sony don't fix it they are going go bust i was thinking..LOL your a idiot Sony will never go bust since they are still making profit from other products and 360 is "catching" up to their sales..hasn't 360 got bigger sale than PS3 already?

I just bought all 3 current gens just for fact i can stay out of their damn argument war of which is better so i remain biased and i love what all 3 consoles bring for exclusive titles and theres my mid-range gaming PC where i feel proud and happy being on everyday.

Well anyways i think we PC gamers are just getting treated the same as console gamers now which i think sucks so i think we are geting shafted down.


----------



## Triprift (Mar 3, 2010)

Theres always going to be bad games coming out on all platforms if you concentrate on them instead of the great titles then ofcourse youll think your being shafted.


----------



## Flyordie (Mar 4, 2010)

Shafted.  

I am not buying/playing MW2 because of Kotick.. I will stay away from Blizzard Activision games now because of him.

Kotick, if you ever read this- I didn't pay $70 for a game to have it nerfed because a console is harder to pirate on.


----------



## TVman (Mar 4, 2010)

unless consols get mouse and keyboard option,have vsync enabled all the time(consols have horrible screen tearing)AND run at SOLID 60 fps(anything less and it makes my eyes hurt),game developers you can shaft us pc gamers as much as you want,but im not going anywere from my beloved PC


----------



## Triprift (Mar 4, 2010)

If you guys all feel that way then rebel dont buy games at all ofcourse the comapnies wont care cus theyll be making money aplenty of consoles.


----------



## pr0n Inspector (Mar 4, 2010)

On one hand I will, for a short while, whine about how SupCom got raped, but on the other hand I enjoy the sight of butthurt gamers screaming over and over and over and over again.


----------



## Widjaja (Mar 4, 2010)

PC Gamers get shafted most of the time.

A console plays the game superbly yet a PC of much higher spec than a Console strains to play the same thing.


----------



## JC316 (Mar 4, 2010)

Oh yeah. They are sticking it in and breaking it off.


----------



## Lionheart (Mar 4, 2010)

Triprift said:


> Theres always going to be bad games coming out on all platforms if you concentrate on them instead of the great titles then ofcourse youll think your being shafted.



Good Point! if thats the case, Im not gonna concentrate on crysis 2 then LMAO


----------



## TIGR (Mar 4, 2010)

Complaining to developers and posting in forums about the issue has already been shown to be, on its own, ineffective: consider Modern Warfare 2. There was a petition for dedicated servers that got over 250,000 signatures, there were petitions on IW's own forums (which were "accidentally deleted"), there were complaints and boycotts and outrage on clan and gaming forums all over the Net. And I doubt that all that resulted in a single change to the game.

Here's the problem: despite all the drama, MW2 was the biggest entertainment launch in history, pulling in over $1 billion in revenue as of six weeks ago. Firstly, the PC gaming market is just too small compared to that of consoles, and secondly, Activision/IW called the bluff: despite all the PC gaming community's outrage, PC gamers bought _plenty_ of copies of the game; MW2 outsold CoD4 in its first week and as of yesterday, was the fourth most-played game on XFire (fifth now, Battlefield BC2 flexing its muscle baby!).

If you want to effectively change the way game makers treat the PC gaming community, writing a few books' worth of posts on their forums and sending them hate mail isn't the best course of action. Neither is trying to boycott a game, because even if you and your clan refuse to buy it, there are plenty of others out there who aren't involved enough in the gaming community to hear the drama and get in on the boycott, so the game makers will still sell copies to them.

*The number one way to get game makers to listen* is to _get more people playing PC games_, and get them playing games that give the community what it wants. Get your console friends off their Playstations etc. and show them the light. Help make the PC gaming community the dominating force in modern gaming, and _then_ it will have the power to sway game makers.

Make it worth it to game makers to put forth the effort.


----------



## warup89 (Mar 4, 2010)

well said, too bad the common joe thinks PC's are _too complicated_.


----------



## KainXS (Mar 4, 2010)

like 5 years ago when 360 came out games on 360 played very good and you would need a very good pc to play the pc versions, but now pc parts are much much cheaper, you can build a pc for like 300 bucks and play games on a 720p tv with no problem(because the resolution is so low) so I don't think its that, but oem's like dell sony etc will rip people off, I know alot of people with computers fast enough to play games but people at the stores like sh*tbuy tell them they can't.

I think TIGR is right + mass piracy(which cannot be stopped)


----------



## Kreij (Mar 4, 2010)

PC gamers are not getting the shaft. What they are getting is the results of a changing gaming market. You can complain all you want about how money is their objective, but they are in business to make money. No money, no business.

There are still gaming companies that cater first to the PC gamers. Not every game is going to be great, but if you do not support them you can bank on the fact they will turn completely to the console market. 

Some people will say that the current crop of PC games are boring. Well guess what, the dev companies are not catering to you personally. They are trying to reach a mass audience, and in a lot of cases (eg. Fallout3) they have done exceptionally well. Kudos to Bethsoft for not abadoning us PC gamers. 

I will not comment on SupCom 2 as I have no idea how the full game compares to the demo.
Many sources are giving the game high marks so I will hold off my judgement until I have the game in my hands.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Mar 4, 2010)

THE PIRATES

Its Ironic PC Gamers are shafting PC GAMERS!
I think the main issue is all the pirating that goes on for PC. If you really want to fight give the Game Companies the PC sells they deserve. Buy any game for the PC instead of the Console Tell every Pirater to go out and buy the game shut down the torrents of ISO's. Then maybe we can see a steady incline in PC gaming instead of this Baby Sitting DRM stuff they do to make sure we actually give them the money they earned.


----------



## warup89 (Mar 4, 2010)

Yeah pirates sucks, but instaed of raping the rest of us with crappy DRM programs, they just need to keep thinking of a better way to know that you actually own the game. I think Battlefield 2142 had a good method to check if you owned the game, although it  still byspassed, you are looking into playing on crapppy hacked servers filled with hackers.


----------



## KainXS (Mar 4, 2010)

goes like this

DRM>people pirate>devs put in drm>lose customers/make more pirates>people still pirate>more drm>lose customers/make more pirates=dev stops making games for pc or the cycle continues until they stop


----------



## AphexDreamer (Mar 4, 2010)

KainXS said:


> goes like this
> 
> people pirate>devs put in drm>lose customers/make more pirates>people still pirate>more drm>lose customers/make more pirates=dev stops making games for pc or the cycle continues until they stop



Exactly so if you want to complain and fix things don't bark up the wrong tree. Bark at the source of the problem its not the developers its the same People doing the complaining (for the mots part). Developers try and fix the problem but we persist. Its amazing they haven't stopped developing on the PC completely yet.


----------



## Binge (Mar 4, 2010)

Kreij said:


> PC gamers are not getting the shaft. What they are getting is the results of a changing gaming market. You can complain all you want about how money is their objective, but they are in business to make money. No money, no business.
> 
> There are still gaming companies that cater first to the PC gamers. Not every game is going to be great, but if you do not support them you can bank on the fact they will turn completely to the console market.
> 
> ...



One piece of criticism that I must voice is that making a good game usually is accepted by the masses.  The problem is that your average Joe Bum new-gamer doesn't know a thing about games.  He's been propped up in front of a television/classroom teacher for most of his days, and his parents easily neglect him in order to go on with their significantly important lives.  Face it... people who know what it takes to be entertained aren't in the game dev/studio saying what they want.  The corperate side of the company talks to the corperate side of a retailer and they talk sales numbers.  Corperate money making is blind, and it's just another market to them.  Maybe people won't understand the analogy, but car manufacturers face the same issues.  Eastern companies put a ton of money into R&D/customer care, and they make the best cars.  Then down the road they won't need a bailout.  Western car companies.... well we already know how that's going.  They ride on the reputation of an old and really good idea.  No innovation, and sometimes the new release is just a POS.  I find video game companies can be the same way, but not implying that great companies are immune from going belly up.


----------



## Widjaja (Mar 4, 2010)

I'm not so certain how much pirates are causing hte issue amongst PC gamers.
XOBOX360 has an awful lot of pirated games as well out there to be DL'd along with other consoles.

It all depends if you know people who know how to do it plus there is a lot of press about fines which deters most people from downloading except for most who have been long time PC Gamers.

I feel the issue lies more with the consumer and $$$ and guaranteed good gaming experience on a console.

There are many who will just go into a retail/franchise and buy a DELL, ACER , (other overrated POS brand) and not know that even though they bought a new PC for more than the console, it won't run the same game made for PC at the same quality.
WTF?!.....the box said I needed what I have to run the game!! *$&^%$&^%!!* (if they know to read the system requirements).
Although I think many of us here did this at the start too....

Then the average consumer goes and dowloads Limewire and a whole lot of free apps which give toolbars out of nowhere because they did not READ, wondering why it's now taking for ever for their system to start up and is using a HUGE amount of system resources. LMAO


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 4, 2010)

AphexDreamer said:


> Exactly so if you want to complain and fix things don't bark up the wrong tree. Bark at the source of the problem its not the developers its the same People doing the complaining (for the mots part). Developers try and fix the problem but we persist. Its amazing they haven't stopped developing on the PC completely yet.



Pirating is not the problem. People that pirate the games, would never buy the game. Most pirates, cuantitatively speaking, come from poor countries, where they would never be able to buy a single game. And that's the statistics they use, they only care about how many pirated games have been downloaded, but there's no way to know exactly who downloaded it. Yet when making their claims they act as if every pirated game was a game that was not sold. 

Look, pirating is something that has been happening for ages in the music bussiness and it has been proven once and again that pirating doesn't decrease sales, they increase them, always.

EDIT: And Widjaja is correct. I have many friends that pirated on consoles, in fact more than ones that did on PC. I don't know a single person who didn't have the chip on his PS2.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Mar 4, 2010)

Benetanegia said:


> Pirating is not the problem. People that pirate the games, would never buy the game. Most pirates, cuantitatively speaking, come from poor countries, where they would never be able to buy a single game. And that's the statistics they use, they only care about how many pirated games have been downloaded, but there's no way to know exactly who downloaded it. Yet when making their claims they act as if every pirated game was a game that was not sold.
> 
> Look, pirating is something that has been happening for ages in the music bussiness and it has been proven once and again that pirating doesn't decrease sales, they increase them, always.
> 
> EDIT: And Widjaja is correct. I have many friends that pirated on consoles, in fact more than ones that did on PC. I don't know a single person who didn't have the chip on his PS2.



PC has been in the game a lot longer than consoles have, its had time to get to this stage. 360  has had a couple years and PS2 no where near the amount of pirates as PC. To say Pirating has a positive effect vs a negative on sales sounds like hog wash to me.  Music and PC games are two different products. 

http://www.gamecritics.com/videogame-piracy-and-the-pc-gaming-industry

http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_6.html This guy has been there and done that with this conversation. Let the facts speak.


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 4, 2010)

AphexDreamer said:


> PC has been in the game a lot longer than consoles have, its had time to get to this stage. 360  has had a couple years and PS2 no where near the amount of pirates as PC. To say Pirating has a positive effect vs a negative on sales sounds like hog wash to me.  Music and PC games are two different products.
> 
> http://www.gamecritics.com/videogame-piracy-and-the-pc-gaming-industry
> 
> http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_6.html This guy has been there and done that with this conversation. Let the facts speak.



Very interesting that article. That doesn't negate my point though, because most console people that I know don't download the games (because they don't have a PC, they don't have internet, or both) they buy them from the many chinese, rusian, eastern europe mafias... Basically from the same people that mod their consoles. 

Piracy is easier on the PC, it's also easier to track down by counting the downloads, but it's not so much bigger than on consoles. It's up to everyone to decide which kind of piracy is worse. The one that is based on ocasional people, downloading the ocasional game, or the one that is based on people that *actually pay* for the cheaper pirated versions of the games and that has an active illegal bussiness behind.

EDIT: This differentiation is very important to my understanding, at least. When something is absolutely free, like pirating on the PC, many people will just DL many games with the sole idea of trying it. They would never pay for the game, they are in no way lost customers, it's people that suddenly have access to something they wouldn't ever pay for (it's here where piracy helps future sales). The piracy on consoles, where you have to mod the console and where most pirated games are bought to mafias, is directly hurting sales. There is an intention to adquire an illegal copy, to adquire the game. 

I stand by my point, PC piracy is not bigger.

Statistics are pretty, but they don't always tell the whole truth and when it comes to internet and downloads it can't get more inaccurate.

EDIT2: The logic behind what I say about PC downloads is similar to the one associated here in Spain with the tapas in most bars in some areas of Spain. In those areas, almost all the bars offer tapas, a kind of apperitives, for free when you purchase a drink. Sometimes you eat it, most often, you don't, but they are always served. When not eaten they have to be thrown away, so as you may understand the price of the drinks are higher or profits lower in such bars. Well, most if not all those bars, at one point in time or another, have tried to sell the drinks alone at a cheaper price and at the same time offer some kind of combo drink+tapa at the same price they were selling the drink before, which would be advertised on the walls. Well this experiment has ALWAYS resulted in people asking only for the drink (and complaining some) and on lower revenues for the bar. The thing is that when it was "free" people would eat them, they would expect them to be there too just in case they wanted to eat them in that ocasion, but as long as they had to pay (even if they would essentially pay the same as before) most people just didn't want to hear about them. It has happened in every single bar. 100% verified theory.

I'm not talking about the socalled "Bar de Tapas" o "Bar the pinchos" where people would go just for the high quality tapas or pinchos and to socialize. I'm talking about normal bars.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Mar 4, 2010)

Benetanegia said:


> Very interesting that article. That doesn't negate my point though, because most console people that I know don't download the games (because they don't have a PC, they don't have internet, or both) they buy them from the many chinese, rusian, eastern europe mafias... Basically from the same people that mod their consoles.
> 
> Piracy is easier on the PC, it's also easier to track down by counting the downloads, but it's not so much bigger than on consoles. It's up to everyone to decide which kind of piracy is worse. The one that is based on ocasional people, downloading the ocasional game, or the one that is based on people that *actually pay* for the cheaper pirated versions of the games and that has an active illegal bussiness behind.
> 
> ...



I understand what you are saying but understand this. Its happed before in the past to the MAC it can happen to the PC as well. http://www.macworld.com/article/51414/2006/06/gamepiracy.html

Thats all.


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 4, 2010)

AphexDreamer said:


> I understand what you are saying but understand this. Its happed before in the past to the MAC it can happen to the PC as well. http://www.macworld.com/article/51414/2006/06/gamepiracy.html
> 
> Thats all.



All I'm saying is that piracy is not the only factor. IMO it's even a tiny one. IMO based on my own experience and that of my PC gamer friends, the most important factor is that games are far worse than they were in the past and that discourages me, you and your mum from paying for them. Let's assume this for once, the console market, as a mass is a lot more stupid (basically because it's mostly formed by kids) than the PC community and expectations are far lower. Statistics speak for themselves here too, console sales are driven by marketing and not game quality. Transformers, Avatar, Wolverine... are just lame examples of what I'm saying. It's *this* what publishers like about the consoles, not the lack of piracy and developers have nothing to say about what is done with their games nowadays, I can count with the fingers of one of my hands the number of developers that are still independent. That's the sad truth and piracy is just the excuse. If PC gamers weren't pirating their crappy games they wouldn't be playing them at all, it's that simple. It's an egg-chicken situation, except that we know that crappy console ports (or simply crappy games) started first.

When I was young and didn't have money or my parents wouldn't buy me a certain game for whatever reason, I pirated some games. I left pirating when I started having my own money, but recently I'm considering pirating games again, because there's no way you can know if a game is good or not from a demo that lasts 3 mins and that is usually the most memorable part of the game. It's like the flashy movie trailers that make you go see the crappy films. IN reality the whole entertainment bussiness has evolved to the same model. Music is the same. What are most singers nowadays? The best selling ones i mean. They are just a face and a single hit in MTV and they expect to sell the entire album, which is crap except for that catchy single.


----------



## newtekie1 (Mar 4, 2010)

@Benetanegia:  I don't see how you can say that pirating on consoles is anywhere near as bad as the PC.  Considering the PS3 was just hacked a few weaks ago, and that is only the very beginning to actually getting pirated games to run on it.

I will agree with you that priacy isn't a direct reason for developers not making games for the PC, and choosing consoles instead.  However, it is a very big indirect reason.  The low sales number are probably the number 1 reason why devs don't develope the awesome PC games that we have been used to seeing.  And of course the poor sales number is due in part to the huge increase in piracy.  Of course, the devs also have to deal with PC users constantly bitching about every little piece of DRM that they attempt to use to help limit piracy.  PC pirating has essentially become casual.


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 4, 2010)

newtekie1 said:


> @Benetanegia:  I don't see how you can say that pirating on consoles is anywhere near as bas as the PC.  Considering the PS3 was just hacked a few weaks ago, and that is only the very beginning to actually getting pirated games to run on it.
> 
> I will agree with you that priacy isn't a direct reason for developers not making games for the PC, and choosing consoles instead.  However, it is a very big indirect reason.  The low sales number are probably the number 1 reason why devs don't develope the awesome PC games that we have been used to seeing.  And of course the poor sales number is due in part to the huge increase in piracy.  Of course, the devs also have to deal with PC users constantly bitching about every little piece of DRM that they attempt to use to help limit piracy.  PC pirating has essentially become casual.



Piracy on PCs is not much bigger now than it was in the past. It is bigger, but the volumes of sales are much bigger too. The gaming market is bigger (both software and hardware), so it just makes sense that piracy grows accordingly. Also read my last edit above. Better yet, I'll put it here instead:

One thing no one mentions is why piracy is growing. IMO the main factor apart from the overall quality of the games, is the laughable lenght of current games. In the past you would buy or pirate a game and have a good 15 to 20 hours of gameplay, now you are lucky if you get 5 hours of satisfactory gameplay. That being the case I see something natural that pirates DL twice or 4x as much as they did before to fill the same entertainment time. On my end, buying twice as many games is totally unjustifiable, it already hurts every time you buy a game: "I'm shelling out 50 euros, the demo looked OK, pleaseeee, make this game one those rare examples of games that are actually worth at least half of what they cost". So yeah I'm considering pirating as a means to fill those ours that I used to be able to fill with $50 worth of a game, but now can't.

Also the piracy argument goes down the drain when you consider:

- The Sims. The best selling game appart from bundled games like Mario and the likes. And it's on the PC. Isn't that proof enough that when a game appeals to someone, it sells?

- Crysis. Despite it's very limited hardware installed base and the fact that it was the most pirated game at the time, it vastly outsold the PC versions of such games as COD4, Assassins Creed and many others (games that sold a lot on consoles). Doesn't it tell the true story? Why didn't COD4 sell as much as Crysis if pirating is the main factor? If pirating puts the limit, why didn't all those games reach that limit marked by Crysis or The sims which was also very pirated? Isn't it just that those games didn't appeal the PC public and that's all? IMO it is JUST that or at least the biggest factor.


----------



## Lionheart (Mar 4, 2010)

How about PC games that require steam, can hackers bypass that shit!


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 4, 2010)

CHAOS_KILLA said:


> How about PC games that require steam, can hackers bypass that shit!



No you can't do it AFAIK. At least easily. And that's actually another argument in my favor. Valve games that require Steam can't be pirated as easily and are good games. Does that make them sell more than others? I don't think so. HL2 episodes were as "piratable" as HL2, they were not easier to pirate, but they sold far less than HL2. Does that mean they were pirated more? Or did it mean that they were crap in comparison? (I enjoyed them a lot, and I mean a lot. I love HL and Valve, but... facts are facts).

EDIT: More facts.

List of best selling games by platforms (it's wiki, I admit it's not the best source):

PC



> * The Sims (16 million shipped)[156]
> * The Sims 2 (13 million)[157]
> o The Sims 2: Pets [expansion pack] (5.6 million)[158]
> o The Sims 2: Seasons [expansion pack] (1 million)[158]
> ...



Look how the best selling ones tend to be old, circa 1995-1998. Nothing but MMORPG after year 2000, PS2 when multiplatform and crappy ports started to grow like a plague.

PlayStation1 sales at the time for comparison:



> * Gran Turismo (10.85 million shipped)[97][98]
> * Final Fantasy VII (9.8 million, includes Final Fantasy VII International)[99]
> * Gran Turismo 2 (9.37 million shipped)[97][98]
> * Tomb Raider II (8 million)[100]
> ...



I don't know you, but they look comparable. Even the PC wins by a bit. Now *THE reason* that is not that way lately (after 2000) is because piracy right? Piracy is to blame!! Look at this chart from the TweakGuide article that was posted above:







1996-1999 decline on piracy. The golden age of PC gaming. The era that saw the birth of what IMO (and the opinion of many) are the best FPS and best RTS of all times (Half-Life and Starcraft, for the distracted), and also my favourite adventure Myst. Not to mention Doom and Counter-Strike (fab online shooter) that marked a before and after. EDIT: Games had NO DRM!

After year 2000 piracy grows again. Linked or not, multiplatform games start to appear around this time, PS2 released. There's not many remarkable PC games and definately didn't sold as much on the PC. Egg or chicken? You pick.


----------



## Widjaja (Mar 4, 2010)

Most people who owned a console back then were still weary of mod chipping.
Over here it was almost like the dark ages and filled with superstition and dial up XD.

Plus broadband was not cheap and locating places which offered pirated PS1 games were hard to come by.
People often still had to pay some dodgy fat guy and the key makers to get the pirated games.

Now a days with the internet being so much faster and the majority being on broadband people can easily pirate a game if there PC is able to run games.

But the catch in pirating is no online gameplay.
The reason why WoW has such high sales.

If the game is a single player only, the chances are it will get pirated regardless of quality.

There are also other ways devs are getting around piracy.
patches.

DiRT 2 for example.
Patches only when you log into GFWL.


----------



## KingPing (Mar 4, 2010)

And what about profiles, eh? I share both the PC and the ps3 with my brother, but while in the ps3 i can have a profile for me and another for my brother, in some PC games i cant. example in ps3 MW2 i have both my profile and my brothers at a cost of 60$, while in PC to do that i would have to buy 2 keys for MW2 (since there is no profiles option in the game like MW1 had) for 120$, and thats without DLCs!.

So yeah i think PC gamers are being shafted, specially those who share their PCs


----------



## Lionheart (Mar 5, 2010)

Didnt the PSone get a mod chip in which it could play copied or burnt games!


----------



## Widjaja (Mar 5, 2010)

CHAOS_KILLA said:


> Didnt the PSone get a mod chip in which it could play copied or burnt games!



Yeah thats what I brought up before.....
I don't know about over there but over here the mod chipping was a OHHHH DODGY sort of thing.
But as I said, we were in the dark ages compared to the rest of the world then.

Plus the majority had dialup except for the wealthy 

Also getting hold of the pirated games was only through a seller.


----------



## erocker (Mar 5, 2010)

Back in the day, I could go to several different 'Video Stores" and just rent any game I wanted for a buck fifty. I had no reason to pirate or mod my console. I miss those days, Blockbuster ruined everything.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 5, 2010)

erocker said:


> Back in the day, I could go to several different 'Video Stores" and just rent any game I wanted for a buck fifty. I had no reason to pirate or mod my console. I miss those days, Blockbuster ruined everything.



Yup. I remember those days. Good times. 

As for this thread its beating a dead horse for me. I told all you suckers about this MONTHS ago before MW2 even came out. Even before that I was bitching. You guys are just NOW getting it? The game industry as a whole is crashing. Its going to be ET all over again. You guys think I'm crazy but you know what? I was RIGHT!


----------



## Delta6326 (Mar 5, 2010)

woot i was the 100 voter do i get a cookie!? and also this is getting on my nerves dang games just aren't made like they used to be.


----------



## Widjaja (Mar 5, 2010)

erocker said:


> Back in the day, I could go to several different 'Video Stores" and just rent any game I wanted for a buck fifty. I had no reason to pirate or mod my console. I miss those days, Blockbuster ruined everything.



I can't believe I forgot that I rented games WTF......

Oh it was so long ago....


----------



## Triprift (Mar 5, 2010)

erocker said:


> Back in the day, I could go to several different 'Video Stores" and just rent any game I wanted for a buck fifty. I had no reason to pirate or mod my console. I miss those days, Blockbuster ruined everything.



I remember them days to sadly though here in Oz your hard pressed to find many video stores anymore as alot of them are going to the wall.


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 5, 2010)

I can still rent games here, and I do frequently.


----------



## von kain (Mar 5, 2010)

can i ask something.?
well many pc manufacturers believe that desktop will be dead in a couple of years,irrelevant?coincidence ,fact???

maybe the world will return to the time before amiga.console for games-media and pc for work and internet.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 5, 2010)

von kain said:


> can i ask something.?
> well many pc manufacturers believe that desktop will be dead in a couple of years,irrelevant?coincidence ,fact???
> 
> maybe the world will return to the time before amiga.console for games-media and pc for work and internet.



Do you have a source or are you just being a Greek?


----------



## von kain (Mar 5, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Do you have a source or are you just being a Greek?



i will always be a Greek.proud too.(hahaha most Europeans  works so we can have 6 months vacations   actualy shame on us.)

well if you search many sites-bloggers says the same thing plus the cloud era approaches.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Mar 5, 2010)

Bloggers?  What do they know?

Cloud computing is for drone computers at corporations (one computer to fix instead of two-dozen)--not the home.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 5, 2010)

TIGR said:


> Complaining to developers and posting in forums about the issue has already been shown to be, on its own, ineffective: consider Modern Warfare 2. There was a petition for dedicated servers that got over 250,000 signatures, there were petitions on IW's own forums (which were "accidentally deleted"), there were complaints and boycotts and outrage on clan and gaming forums all over the Net. And I doubt that all that resulted in a single change to the game.
> 
> Here's the problem: despite all the drama, MW2 was the biggest entertainment launch in history, pulling in over $1 billion in revenue as of six weeks ago. Firstly, the PC gaming market is just too small compared to that of consoles, and secondly, Activision/IW called the bluff: despite all the PC gaming community's outrage, PC gamers bought _plenty_ of copies of the game; MW2 outsold CoD4 in its first week and as of yesterday, was the fourth most-played game on XFire (fifth now, Battlefield BC2 flexing its muscle baby!).
> 
> ...




it did get somewhere - look at the official responses from the bad company 2 team over those issues, stating they wouldnt be as stupid. THAT is the response we want.


----------



## Triprift (Mar 5, 2010)

It makes sense lets be honest you can spend thousands of dollars to get a machine that can run the latest games. You need to greatest card cus if you dont you wont get max res then you need a 30 inch or just below monitor best cpu you can ect ect. or you can spend a a couple of hundred bucks on a console thats contry to alot of pc gamers do not look bad a t all with the biggest expense being the games and a hd screen. Yeah at there best pcs are prettier but thats after shitloads more money and the majority of gamers are not hardcore there casual. thats understandable in the non stop world we have were alot of ppl dont have the time for super long sessions.


----------



## von kain (Mar 5, 2010)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Bloggers?  What do they know?
> 
> Cloud computing is for drone computers at corporations (one computer to fix instead of two-dozen)--not the home.



in the long way what happens in major scale come down to our houses.cloud will be partial in this (and maybe next )generations of OSes but surerly the fore-next (windows strata?) will be absolute cloud (imagine ios-android-chrome)


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Mar 5, 2010)

Your PS3/Xbox 360 is more likely to end up on a cloud than your PC is (for DRM sake).  Hell, they already are.  You can't do any gaming online without registering with Xbox Live or PlayStation Network and connecting to their authorized servers.  There is no peer to peer there.  All that they are missing is placing the OS on their already exisiting cloud infrastructure.


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 5, 2010)

Triprift said:


> It makes sense lets be honest you can spend thousands of dollars to get a machine that can run the latest games. You need to greatest card cus if you dont you wont get max res then you need a 30 inch or just below monitor best cpu you can ect ect. or you can spend a a couple of hundred bucks on a console thats contry to alot of pc gamers do not look bad a t all with the biggest expense being the games and a hd screen. Yeah at there best pcs are prettier but thats after shitloads more money and the majority of gamers are not hardcore there casual. thats understandable in the non stop world we have were alot of ppl dont have the time for super long sessions.



That's the most used, tired and stupid of the arguments that have been circulating forever. If you need the latest graphics card, 4gb of ram, the latest CPU and a 2560x1600 30 inch monitor in order to play your games at 60-100 fps and 4 to 16xAA and max settings, which is what you need the latest for, you are NOT going to buy a console that is capped at 30 fps, renders games at less than 720p with no AA nor AF, medium quality textures and has 512 mb of ram.

If you are happy with the latter you can take your old computer (ANY dual core with 2GB of DDR 266 or DDR2 400 Mhz will do the job) and put a $60 HD4830 inside and that's it, you can even hook it up to your TV. Or you can buy a $250-300 console and pay an extra of $10 per game that can easily pile up to an extra of $500 over the lifetime of the console if you are a true gamer.

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6240905/p-4.html

COD:MW2 High settings 1680x1059 8xAF no AA

8600 GTS = 34 FPS
HD4670 = 56 FPS

On medium quality even a 7900GS will do the job for you.
7600 GT will cut it if you want to go as low as consoles in terms of resolution and textures.


----------



## Triprift (Mar 5, 2010)

Most ppl dont look at the stuff you just menchined if they did thered be buggerall consoles and gaming pcs everywhere. All they see is a PS3 for 400 odd bucks while the top end gpus cost more than that alone.


----------



## MadClown (Mar 5, 2010)

{bad english}Don't worry guiz, when I becum a game develupper, I can does make good pc gaymze 4 u!!1  nO dijittal rytes manahgmunt(DRM), no see-D keez, no horseshit.{/bad english}  Every game will have lean, even racing games, and solitaire.  But in all seriousness, this needs to stop, It's a sad day when I have to rebuild a pre-2000 era computer just to play some good games.


----------



## von kain (Mar 5, 2010)

Benetanegia said:


> If you need the latest graphics card, 4gb of ram, the latest CPU and a 2560x1600 30 inch monitor in order to play your games at 60-100 fps and 4 to 16xAA and max settings...



or play crysis on a constant 24 fps you need everything god can give you.


----------



## TIGR (Mar 5, 2010)

Mussels said:


> it did get somewhere - look at the official responses from the bad company 2 team over those issues, stating they wouldnt be as stupid. THAT is the response we want.



I doubt they were ever considering setting something like IWNet up for BC2.


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 5, 2010)

von kain said:


> or play crysis on a constant 24 fps you need everything god can give you.



False. At the settings that a console would play the game a 8800 GT can play it perfectly. At 1920x1200 4xAA Crysis Ultra High needs a very powerful card. If you are willing to play at 1024x768 no AA and medium/high settings, it runs perfectly on a 9600GT. At those settings it plays just as well as any other game.

The problem with Crysis is that it doesn't scale as well as other games as you increase resolution, or should I say that it does scale with resolution unlike other games. 1920x1200 has 75% more pixels than 1280x1024, it would be normal to obtain only half (1/1.75) the performance. Most games use a pixel based lightning effects, shadows and post-effects, while Crysis uses jittering and a simulation of a physically correct model on every effect.

For example take Dirt2, it's lighting, shadows and effects look much better, crisper the higher the resolution and blurred on low resolution. That's because everything is based on screen pixels, that's it a soft shadow border will have i.e. 20 pixels thickness no matter the resolution, resultin in far fatter effects on lower res.

Crysis on the other hand uses jittering based on the scale in the 3D scene. In certain moment a soft shadow border will have 5 physical centimeters or 3D engine units and it's transparency will be calculated using jittering and not simple interpolation like in most games. At 1280x1024 that will be translated to X pixels, at 1920x1200 that will be translated to more pixels and more work to the GPU.

This difference results in a much nicer picture, but lower performance is espected, because the picture is better! More than 2 years have passed and nothing has touched Crysis in terms of graphics fidelity. You can't have a nicer look without a cost.

Why will Crysis 2 run on consoles? Mainly because they are going to run it at very low resolution compared to what people played Crysis at and because it's mostly going to occur in New York, where geometry is far simpler and hence physical calculations far easier for the GPU. Use the above on Crysis on your PC and any mid-range card from 2 years ago will play it smoothly.


----------



## von kain (Mar 5, 2010)

Benetanegia said:


> False.



thanx. i bet you can't identify irony .


p.s. about cloud...http://gizmodo.com/5485804/ballmer-explains-the-cloud-in-5-easy-steps


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 5, 2010)

von kain said:


> thanx. i bet you can't identify irony .



Nope, sorry. 
Just the automatic response to the old used argument.


----------



## Saakki (Mar 5, 2010)

Its a pity that they are toning down the gaming experience of PC-games because of consoles...I have 360 for casual gaming , but games are starting to lack some "hardcore"-features that were the salt of PC-gaming..cmon no lan or dedicated servers..luckily I has them classic Steam games for online and LAN experiences


----------



## Mussels (Mar 5, 2010)

Crysis on medium at 720p (console levels) should be possible on pretty much any system. I'd expect lag in heavy firefights, as well as those later levels of the games that screwed up (i recall the snow levels causing trouble on many machines when the game was new)

ben..etc, has an interesting post however. nice read.


Tigr: but the point is, they noticed it and had PR stuff telling people how they werent going to do it. that means the outcry reached a developers ears and THEY (if not IW) know not to make the same mistake.


----------



## boise49ers (Mar 5, 2010)

Bad company 2: Great game? yeah, its awesome. Lets play it on LAN.. oh i cant. you cant host your own servers, lan or internet. joy. this is almost as bad as MW2.

___________________________________________________________

I was really pissed about this until I found out only one of my computers will play it any way :  )
As far as it is all about money , that will continue as long as we continue running our politics and economy on that premise. When they see they can literally buy any thing they want including legislation they will continue to have the mind set that making money is the only thing to worry about. It has got progressively worse year in and and year out.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 5, 2010)

what i HOPE, is that later on in the games lifespan they release the dedicated servers for free.

you know, for the first 12 months they use the money from the servers to pay for patching the game, that sort of thing.


----------



## boise49ers (Mar 5, 2010)

Mussels said:


> what i HOPE, is that later on in the games lifespan they release the dedicated servers for free.
> 
> you know, for the first 12 months they use the money from the servers to pay for patching the game, that sort of thing.



Yeah you would think allowing people to host their own would be a no brainer.


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 5, 2010)

Mussels said:


> what i HOPE, is that later on in the games lifespan they release the dedicated servers for free.
> 
> you know, for the first 12 months they use the money from the servers to pay for patching the game, that sort of thing.



I do think there's something of that on the Activision-IW case. IW wanted that, maybe Activision didn't. Think about it, royalties coming from more than $1 billion has to be a big chunk of money on its own. Self funding could very well be posible for the next release, just like Valve and id and others have been doing. That means total independence and the posibility to deal with another smaller and friendlier publisher/distributor. Activision doesn't want that, that's for sure. I mean, look at the revenues I posted on a previouus post. EA and Activision both had about $4 billion revenues last year, $1 billion per quarter or so. That's what MW2 earnt alone! They don't want to let it go, that's for sure, and if desperate measures and long litigations is all they have at their disposal in order to mantain the goose that lays the golden eggs, so be it.


----------



## TIGR (Mar 5, 2010)

Mussels said:


> .... but the point is, they noticed it and had PR stuff telling people how they werent going to do it. that means the outcry reached a developers ears and THEY (if not IW) know not to make the same mistake.



Just because "the outcry reached a developers ears" doesn't mean the developers did anything about it. In fact, IW/Activision clearly didn't. The BC2 crew saying they wouldn't do what IW/Activision had done, strikes me as them milking a decision that had already been made for all it was worth. There uproar just gave Dice/EA an opportunity to look good saying "hey guys, we'd never do that," while behind closed doors it may well have been "not that we were ever going to, but hey, this is good publicity."

Dice/EA already knew they had a good game and I think they made it the way they did because _the customer base/money was good enough to be worth developing for_, not because of some public uproar. And because it's just plain how they've always done it. As others here have stated, game designers may be passionate about their games, but in the end, it is a business, and that's why I say the most effective way to get games the way we want them is to _buy the PC versions of good games_ and get _more other people_ buying PC versions and fewer console versions. You wanna be heard, put your money where your mouth is. And get others to put _their money_ where your mouth is too.

That came off way more dirty than intended.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 5, 2010)

TIGR said:


> Just because "the outcry reached a developers ears" doesn't mean the developers did anything about it.



I know - but the point stands, if we keep up the outcry, someone sooner or later will go "holy crap, lets make a game for these guys, and we'll make TONS of money!"


----------



## BababooeyHTJ (Mar 5, 2010)

Mussels said:


> Frick: you're missing the point. when PC gamers stop buying these shit games, and spend the money supporting the few devs who make PC games for PC's, then they'll realize THAT is where the money is. we just need to make them realize it!



QFT

Steam's holiday sale was pretty impressive but during that whole time a $60 console port with castrated features (MW2) stayed at the top three best selling games on Steam even spending quite a bit of time at number one while some really good deals were going on for some great games. Sadly this situation isn't going to change anytime soon.


----------



## ArmoredCavalry (Mar 6, 2010)

AphexDreamer said:


> Its Ironic PC Gamers are shafting PC GAMERS!
> I think the main issue is all the pirating that goes on for PC. If you really want to fight give the Game Companies the PC sells they deserve.



On the other hand, buying a game can actually hurt the PC user experience. I know quite a few people who were outraged about the lack of dedicated servers for MW2, then they ended up buying it anyhow.

As soon as the publisher has your money, they take that as a vote for more like it. Every copy of MW2 for PC that sold was saying "I don't care if you take away dedicated servers, I'll buy it anyhow".

If Publishers see no decline in sales when they shaft PC gamers, why would they even stop to think that they should refrain from doing so?

Edit: Ah, I see a few people above me see this as well.


----------



## von kain (Mar 6, 2010)

ArmoredCavalry said:


> As soon as the publisher has your money, they take that as a vote for more like it. Every copy of MW2 for PC that sold was saying "I don't care if you take away dedicated servers, I'll buy it anyhow".
> 
> If Publishers see no decline in sales when they shaft PC gamers, why would they even stop to think that they should refrain from doing so?
> 
> Edit: Ah, I see a few people above me see this as well.



thats so true it hurts.see any apple product(and it marketing) you can cut any "extra" anything a handful of people(yeap thats us)will use and it will sell 3 times more.

i am quite old to have a lot of gaming experience,in the 90's many pc game tittles have a cd case a book (some times with a whole story inside  to make you feel you know the gamestory .ie diablo 1) and many times some game inside tokes,when that stops and the dvd bookcase start we all say exactly the same.


----------



## DrPepper (Mar 6, 2010)

I miss all the easter eggs and glitches that lead to easter eggs in the old games


----------



## HELLSPAWNPR (Mar 6, 2010)

I dont know were they get there numbers but pirated games arent limited to PC only i remeber buying  Halo 3  the day it came out and a coworker  telling me he bought the game a week earlier for just 10.00. also  modded xbox  psp ps2 ds running 100s of games on memory card. I been playing on PC for 6 years  but im starting to hate this shit of whinning about slow pc games sales. i can put up with long instals multiple disks and patches  what i cant deal with after all is down  the game is a piece of crap.


----------



## CDdude55 (Mar 6, 2010)

HELLSPAWNPR said:


> I dont know were they get there numbers but pirated games arent limited to PC only i remeber buying  Halo 3  the day it came out and a coworker  telling me he bought the game a week earlier for just 10.00. also  modded xbox  psp ps2 ds running 100s of games on memory card. I been playing on PC for 6 years  but im starting to hate this shit of whinning about slow pc games sales. i can put up with long instals multiple disks and patches  what i cant deal with after all is down  the game is a piece of crap.



Pirating happens a lot more on PC,so devs get scared of losing loads of cash if they develop mainly for the PC platform. It does suck that they don't count online bought PC game sales, as there are a lot of money coming from it. But Consoles will still have the majority of sales, even if they counted online sales, its all about mainstream appeal and that's where the Consoles have an upper hand. Just look at MW2.


----------



## Benetanegia (Mar 6, 2010)

CDdude55 said:


> Pirating happens a lot more on PC,so devs get scared of losing loads of cash if they develop *mainly* for the PC platform. It does suck that they don't count online bought PC game sales, as there are a lot of money coming from it. But Consoles will still have the majority of sales, even if they counted online sales, its all about mainstream appeal and that's where the Consoles have an upper hand. Just look at MW2.



I think that no one is asking them to develop mainly or only for the PC, we don't want crappy ports. It can be done since many (ok some...ah ok just a few lately) developers are making it right. Many PC games have sold quite well on the PC lately. Crysis 1.5 million copies, Bioshock 1 million (1.5 on consoles), Supreme Commander more than 1 million, Stalker:SOC 2 millions and that's only retail numbers. Maybe those sales don't warrant enough profits for a PC exclusive, but that doesn't give them carte blanche to shaft us. Are you telling me that 1 million copies sold doesn't more than offset the amount of money they would spend making a proper PC conversion? (understanding port < conversion < PC version made from scratch)

The case of Stalker is quite noteworthy as it shows that even a PC exclusive can work very well. They are on their 3rd release and nothing points out to GSC are bankrupt or anything. They are growing in fact. But it obviously takes a good game like Stalker or Crysis in order to make that.


----------



## ctrain (Mar 7, 2010)

AphexDreamer said:


> THE PIRATES
> 
> Its Ironic PC Gamers are shafting PC GAMERS!
> I think the main issue is all the pirating that goes on for PC. If you really want to fight give the Game Companies the PC sells they deserve. Buy any game for the PC instead of the Console Tell every Pirater to go out and buy the game shut down the torrents of ISO's. Then maybe we can see a steady incline in PC gaming instead of this Baby Sitting DRM stuff they do to make sure we actually give them the money they earned.



hardly.

According to Valve, pirates are under-served customers. Why does Valve not have these problems?

For one, they use the brilliant idea of MAKING THEIR STUFF AVAILABLE TO A WIIIIIDE ARRAY OF PEOPLE. L4D2 has had a couple 75% off sales already, hell, Valve has TONS of sales on their stuff.

Jerk McPiracy kinda wants to play the game but can't quite see it happening for $50, probably realizes a legit copy is more fun (real servers vs laggy cracked servers filled with other dopes who are probably cheating) Thankfully Valve is cutting costs by a huge amount and it all becomes that much more irresistible. Valve has already said that their sales spike an enormous amount when sales happen and that even though it's selling for a huge discount, they turn a PROFIT(!!). Suddenly tons more people are getting the game and Valve is actually making $$ despite selling it far cheaper. Win for gamers / Win for Valve.

Then comes their support. Patches, patches, patches, patches, PATCHES UPDATES EVERYTHING. I've seen their games patch multiple times in a single day before. They have the system in place, they can push updates easily to anyone at any time so even simple fixes don't have to sit there waiting to be deployed in a giant mass. They churn out huge amounts of content and hey, you're getting quite a lot of time out of that $10 purchase!

If anything, Valve has proven that piracy need not be an issue, you just have to know how to work the people.  Put out good games, give good support to them, give people a reason to buy it and like magic, it seemingly sells.


Look at MW2... STILL SIXTY DOLLARS... STILL the most expensive item on the front page of Steam. Ever notice how games tend to spike into the top sellers list when sales hit?




Then again, piracy is often way overblown. Check out Crysis, according to Crytek the amount of piracy was horrible! Too bad in reality it actually sold a couple MILLION. It actually sold VERY well despite whatever stupid spin people like to put on it. A bunch of titles have proven that PC gaming is perfectly fine, but I do think it's going through some changes at the moment.


----------



## KingPing (Mar 7, 2010)

Did anyone played the last terminator game?, that game was like what $40, $50? when it should cost $15 or max $20. And it was $60 on ps3 or 360.

 They complain about piracy, when a game cost $50 to $60. And then Bum! DLC!!!

 For $60 i expect the FULL game 

 Games like Resident Evil 5 and their DLCs makes me think twice about buying another game from CAPCOM

 And before someone says "if you dont like it dont buy it", I already bought the F****** game!!!.


 I bought Bad Company 2 and:

*punkbuster init failed
*no vsync
*no AA
*white pixel in the screen
*ping not showing in the server browser
*random crash to windows
*Pseudo Dedicated Servers S****
*all take forever to refresh

I feel like im playing the beta, not the retail game

Piracy will always be a problem, their job is to release and support a game in a proper way, and price it acording to how good or content the game has, not all games are worth $60


----------



## LittleLizard (Mar 7, 2010)

It' doesnt matter much because we (pc gamers) have something that console gamers will never have (no its not a mouse and keyboard). We have classics with multiplayer, Quake III, Doom, Baldur's Gate, Diablo II, Starcraft, NFS 4, Medal of Honor (the original and the only one thats good). Even if there are no more good games with ambicious graphics we will always have the classics to play with our ol time mates.


----------



## ArmoredCavalry (Mar 7, 2010)

KingPing said:


> I bought Bad Company 2 and:
> 
> *punkbuster init failed
> *no vsync
> ...



*Run PBsetup: http://www.evenbalance.com/index.php?page=pbsetup.php
*Go to video options (advanced) for Vsync
*Go to video options (advanced) for AA
*White pixel on screen??

Any networking stuff is being worked on now. During the beta networking worked fine, so something with the load now that it is retail is messing up their system. I'm sure they will work it out, and they are doing a good job of posting updates as they happen. Give them some time.

Playing online, I think the game is absolutely worth at least the $42 I paid for it (even if the networking is a pain right now ).


----------



## digibucc (Mar 7, 2010)

it's about this:


CDdude55 said:


> Consoles will still have the majority of sales, even if they counted online sales, its all about mainstream appeal and that's where the Consoles have an upper hand. Just look at MW2.



not about this:


CDdude55 said:


> Pirating happens a lot more on PC,so devs get scared of losing loads of cash if they develop mainly for the PC platform.



they are actually two separate things, it's just easy to mask their greed by saying the pirates did it.


----------



## CDdude55 (Mar 7, 2010)

digibucc said:


> it's about this:
> 
> 
> not about this:
> ...



Pirating does contribute to the loss of interest for PC development and yes its for greed purposes, if they know they have a high profile title on there hands you bet the Consoles will be the lead platform and the PC gets the shit end of the stick. It's all about making as much money as you can and evaluating what platforms will keep the cash cow mooing.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ (Mar 8, 2010)

CDdude55 said:


> Pirating does contribute to the loss of interest for PC development and yes its for greed purposes, if they know they have a high profile title on there hands you bet the Consoles will be the lead platform and the PC gets the shit end of the stick. It's all about making as much money as you can and evaluating what platforms will keep the cash cow mooing.



I would be willing to bet that just as many if not more console game get pirated but since they also generally sell a larger volume it's a fewer percentage of games sold that get pirated on the console.

Face the facts console games get pirated too. Secondly do used game sales count towards total sales? The used game market is considerably higher on the consoles and the devs don't see a dime of that action afaik, rentals same deal.


----------



## Velvet Wafer (Mar 8, 2010)

anyone here ever heard of a "chipped" playstation?
there you have your piracy, and its to be found in every parts of the gaming world (there are even gameboy burners!)
today,most games are so lousy, piracy is more like a weapon against bad taste, than a crime
just my 2 cents


----------



## CDdude55 (Mar 8, 2010)

BababooeyHTJ said:


> I would be willing to bet that just as many if not more console game get pirated but since they also generally sell a larger volume it's a fewer percentage of games sold that get pirated on the console.
> 
> Face the facts console games get pirated too. Secondly do used game sales count towards total sales? The used game market is considerably higher on the consoles and the devs don't see a dime of that action afaik, rentals same deal.



Doubt it, As i said before, Consoles capture a wider audience of people, where most of which don't even know what pirating is.

I would never say that Console games don't get pirated, they do. But it's not on the same scale.


----------



## Widjaja (Mar 8, 2010)

I agree many games are lousy and not worth the price we pay when they are first released.

For example I was choosing between DiRT 2 and Godfather II both the same price both released around the same day but both very different quality.


----------



## JackAttack (Mar 8, 2010)

Need for Speed SHIFT...I love the damn game.
So I sit here wondering why the game doesn't include some of the worlds fastest cars, the Ferraris.
What do I see googling? 
Ferraris are released as an add on update to the Xbox 360 exclusive.
WTF !!!!
Its enough to make one pissed.
If the producers think I'm going out and buying some Xbox to fall in line with the masses, they are crazy.
I'll just sit here and be pissed with no Ferrari.
Lol...I think.


----------



## keling (Mar 9, 2010)

I will always be a PC Gamer right to the end. No consoles for me. There's a Geforce card somewhere inside the PS3 and Xbox360. Patching was also a PC exclusive and console gamers used it as a negative point for PC gaming. But when a console game requires patching, it is deemed as the best feature of next gen gaming. 

When a PC Gamer has problems with a game, the forums would be filled with tips, tricks suggestions and tweaks to help a fellow gamer have a good experience. When the PSN fiasco last week disabled a lot of pre PS3 Slim units, the most posted comments I read in the forums was : "Glad my PS3 isn't affected." Some great help that was. 

Bohemia Interactive is also one of the major players in PC Gaming and I really enjoyed Arma 2. The single missions is not up to MC2 movie like standard but the challenges in the Armoury was a pleasant surprise. And don't let me start with the Editor. Open a map, add some stuff in, save and blow those stuff up. Pure PC gaming. And I noticed that the single missions were a lot like MS2's  Spec Op missions, only with a lot less enemy chucking grenades after grenades after grenades after grenades after grenades after grenades after grenades at you (see how annoying that was, IW? Stop with the grenades orgy already.).


----------



## Mussels (Mar 10, 2010)

Keling: no, the 360 (and the wii!) use ATI graphics.


----------



## entropy13 (Mar 10, 2010)

CDdude55 said:


> Doubt it, As i said before, Consoles capture a wider audience of people *in rich countries*, where most of which don't even know what pirating is.
> 
> I would never say that Console games don't get pirated, they do. But it's not on the same scale.



Fixed that for you.


----------



## keling (Mar 10, 2010)

Mussels : Yeah, I know. I forgot which of the two was  it and to lazy to research it again since the console gamers doesn't really want to talk about the insides of their machines nowadays. The error was  deliberate 'cause I knew someone will correct me. Thanks for that. 

entropy13 : I think that another reason for the PC's predicament is due to poor promotion and any substantial follow up action. Look how Microsoft invested millions in promoting the 360, followed with games after games to keep it alive. Microsoft also invested millions in promoting Games for Windows, followed by a troublesome GFW Live and cancelling a lot of games for windows (Flight Simulator, Alan Wake). No one is promoting the PC as a viable gaming platform and with the rise of Apple gaming (via iPhones, iPad and god knows what else in the future that starts with i), it's going to get worse. Even the recent announcement of Steam's Apple move doesn't really excite me much. Apple doesn't want it's PCs to called PCs (evidence : I'm a PC/I'm an Apple campaign) but it is doing a great job promoting gaming in it's devices. It's hard enough the PC is in a one sided battle against the consoles, now another frontline is opening. Maybe after this, PC vs Consoles vs Apple war will start.

Anyway. PC till the very end.


----------



## Animalpak (Mar 10, 2010)

if they stopped making games for PC, then I wonder why I spend 400 $ 500 for Graphics Card ? 

ATI and NVIDIA no longer sell 'anything since their first market is the graphics cards.


People buy consoles because you plug it into your TV and can play, without having to think about which component is best for your needs. Community of consoles players are aged between 12 years and 19. Damn im feeling old !

I'm 25 and I much prefer the gaming on PC.


Codemasters has announced a new FPS game and will not out for PC, so but only for CONSOLES !!! Again another FPS for consoles? But how do you take aim with your thumb ?

With a PC the mouse and keyboard I've already frag you 10 times that you not even logged into the game with your joypad.


Is as every time you enter into the server then press TAB and you've already been killed 10 times and zero kills  AHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## CDdude55 (Mar 10, 2010)

entropy13 said:


> Fixed that for you.





I guess that's true. But i wouldn't know living in the rich and greedy country of the U.S.


----------



## entropy13 (Mar 10, 2010)

The masses over here that does play consoles don't own those consoles; they didn't buy the games either (or if they did, it isn't exactly "original" retail copies). When I want to play some Fight Night Round 4 I go to some of the places that allows you to rent out the console and the game for an hourly rate.

The majority of those who have their own consoles also have their own PCs.

Among my "circle of friends/acquaintances" that owns consoles, they don't exactly "buy the original" if you know what I mean.

Another case in point is with the PSP. We're playing Final Fantasy: Dissidia just within a few days it was released. We didn't care if it was in Japanese, we wanted to play it immediately so the only way to do so was to somehow "acquire" it.

So by ignoring the PC, they're not exactly improving the console base either (in countries like ours anyway). Those that have consoles in the first place also have PCs. Those that only have ACCESS to consoles can't afford to buy them in the first place anyway (or choose not to in my case).

Consoles, although quite "diverse" in its use already, is still not the same as a PC. With limited budget, going all out with a PC that can also be used for doing your project, research, etc. would be better off than with a limited console. And MMORPGs (mostly from S. Korea and Japan) are quite popular over here. And they're not played in consoles.

Another point to the versatility of the PC. A high school student can always excuse his use of the PC for doing schoolwork while actually playing games. He cannot do the same when he's on the console.


----------



## Suijin (Mar 10, 2010)

I didn't read all the posts in between, but you might be missing one of the only genres that is still made for mostly just the PC ........ MMOs.  I know they have done some for consoles, but not widely.  It is one area where PC gamers seem to still be treated as actually existing.  Granted some companies (SOE comes to mind) still treat you like shit, but they actually think you exist.  I guess it does come down to money for that even (no pirates, more control, sweet subscription money, etc.).

I too, about 10 years ago even thought that consoles were dumbing down PC games.  Always seemed like more bugs were in the games too from the design/shoehorning the code for the 2 separate PC and console.  I just gave up and stopped buying any of those games.

On the plus side, except for graphics (which still isn't too bad if you can stand not having the very best), computer equipment is actually fairly cheap to get a very nice rig.  I remember getting a $4000 computer way back in the day and I don't think it was even top of the line.  For about $1000 now you can get a very nice computer, if you build it yourself.


----------



## MilkyWay (Mar 10, 2010)

Thats the height of hypocrisy that console exclusive gamers use patches and updates as a great next gen feature when they used to slag it off and say it meant it made developers sloppy.

What happened years ago is that mulitplatform titles would have a bug in the PS2 version and then on the pc version it would be patched, still there in the PS2 version.

The only game i know that really needed extra build time and was fixed through patches is Empire Total War so in all my days of playing pc games patches have only enhanced a game never fixed it because it was totally unplayable at release.

Then again i do play consoles because i have some older retro consoles and a 360.
The 360 i have because its got splitscreen and better co op options, i can get the console exclusive titles and i like a lot of the arcade titles. I didnt buy it because i thought it was better just for different reasons

I do think that developers have shifted time and resources more towards consoles as there is a big market and profit to be made. Years ago pc games where cheap to make, you would see tons of exclusive titles to pc now its a choice to either make it on a console and port it over because that gives maximum profit.

I do think though that there is more bang for buck in the hardware market, only really ram and graphics cards have increased a little but still its never the prices youd pay early 2000s or before then it was even more expensive.

Sometimes we get the best deal as fallout 3 and bad company 2 suggest but other times not so much just a harried port.


----------



## ShiBDiB (Mar 10, 2010)

Like you touched on, the Strategy gamers who go to the pc for an indepth experience that isnt possible on a console are the ones getting shafted the most... I woulda been happy if supcom2 was merely a updated supcom1 with that 4gb mem bug fixed. Instead they dumbed it down to the level of a 13 year old mw2 player.


----------



## MilkyWay (Mar 10, 2010)

Thats the height of hypocrisy that console exclusive gamers use patches and updates as a great next gen feature when they used to slag it off and say it meant it made developers sloppy.

What happened years ago is that mulitplatform titles would have a bug in the PS2 version and then on the pc version it would be patched, still there in the PS2 version.

The only game i know that really needed extra build time and was fixed through patches is Empire Total War so in all my days of playing pc games patches have only enhanced a game never fixed it because it was totally unplayable at release.

Then again i do play consoles because i have some older retro consoles and a 360.
The 360 i have because its got splitscreen and better co op options, i can get the console exclusive titles and i like a lot of the arcade titles. I didnt buy it because i thought it was better just for different reasons

I do think that developers have shifted time and resources more towards consoles as there is a big market and profit to be made. Years ago pc games where cheap to make, you would see tons of exclusive titles to pc now its a choice to either make it on a console and port it over because that gives maximum profit.

I do think though that there is more bang for buck in the hardware market, only really ram and graphics cards have increased a little but still its never the prices youd pay early 2000s or before then it was even more expensive.

Sometimes we get the best deal as fallout 3 and bad company 2 suggest but other times not so much just a harried port.


----------



## Stearic (Mar 10, 2010)

Mussels said:


> are PC gamers getting the shaft in favour of consoles? is the trend of making games simple and stupid to appeal to 'the mass market' leading to the downfall of PC gaming?



I haven't read through the whole thread, but I definitely agree that PC users are getting shafted. Apart from the examples of crippled MP, dumbed down gameplay and lousy interfaces, I'd also add 'control/input system' to the list. I see several console ports retain their cr@ptacular control scheme when they arrive on the PC. Eg: Dead Space, Mass Effect 1*, Resident Evil 5, Call of Juarez BiB, etc etc.

Until recently you atleast had the confidence that you could assign KB+mouse keys/buttons any way you liked and the game would play perfectly, but with the slew of console ports, it cannot be taken for granted anymore.


* It was an awesome game; one of my favorite games of all time, but it did not like custom key/mouse button assignments. ME2 has absolutely no problems in this respect.


----------



## coljarcker (Mar 10, 2010)

if you don't want to get shafted, buy good pc games and don't buy console games. don't sit around posting in forums, spend your money where the right developers will get it and will get the message that you're worth developing for


----------



## Blaircroft (Mar 18, 2010)

im very unsatisfied by this era of gaming all the best Rpgs are on consoles, i can see they are trying to mash everything into one rpg,strategy,fps quick plots with no depth or substance under the guise of fancy cool guy explosions.


----------



## erocker (Mar 18, 2010)

I've been playing some great games on the PC lately. Actually for years this has been happening. I could care less about consoles, console gamers, etc. Nope, I don't feel shafted and I don't care what is being released/made for consoles. Consoles are for kids. It's been a while since I've been one of those. The people who seem to complaing about these things are most likely too young to remember when consoles were all we really had for games. This whole argument in my opinion was most likely made up by someone too young to remember. Perhaps if people paid attention to history they wouldn't be so blind and would't feel "shafted." I laugh about it.


----------



## keling (Mar 18, 2010)

PC is an evolving entity, perpetually adapting to it's environment. And as long as people need PCs to do mundane daily tasks (work and stuff), there will always be PC games. It may sound silly but this is actually an advantage over it's console rivals. Sony and Microsoft promoted their machines as fun entertainment for your family in the living room so doing mundane chores would be out of the question. Which would also mean that in order to kill the PC is for the consoles be able to do mundane stuff, i.e become PC.

So, since they can't kill the PC, make it suffer. Make the experience playing a PC version of a game so horrible that gamers would actually defect to their consoles. It's a covert punishments and rewards system. Consoles versions reward gamers with ease of use, interface that suits the controllers, achievements, promote it as a cooler thing to do, etc. PC versions at times ( or most) are the opposites of those things-punishments. Shock, hit, kick a dog long enough, it will stop begging for food (Disclaimer : I never did any of those things, it was just a parable).


----------



## SK-1 (Mar 18, 2010)

+infinity


----------



## Mussels (Mar 19, 2010)

erocker said:


> I've been playing some great games on the PC lately. Actually for years this has been happening. I could care less about consoles, console gamers, etc. Nope, I don't feel shafted and I don't care what is being released/made for consoles. Consoles are for kids. It's been a while since I've been one of those. The people who seem to complaing about these things are most likely too young to remember when consoles were all we really had for games. This whole argument in my opinion was most likely made up by someone too young to remember. Perhaps if people paid attention to history they wouldn't be so blind and would't feel "shafted." I laugh about it.



i started with a NES and a 386.

Games got better, prettier, and more complicated - quake added 3D over 2D doom, and so on, slowly improving. It feels like we've lost 3D and gone back to 2D, with how all modern games are being dumbed down.


----------



## Triprift (Mar 19, 2010)

erocker said:


> I've been playing some great games on the PC lately. Actually for years this has been happening. I could care less about consoles, console gamers, etc. Nope, I don't feel shafted and I don't care what is being released/made for consoles. Consoles are for kids. It's been a while since I've been one of those. The people who seem to complaing about these things are most likely too young to remember when consoles were all we really had for games. This whole argument in my opinion was most likely made up by someone too young to remember. Perhaps if people paid attention to history they wouldn't be so blind and would't feel "shafted." I laugh about it.



Then i guess im an old kid.


----------



## erocker (Mar 19, 2010)

There are always a couple games going around that a high end PC will struggle to play. If you mean "dumbed down" by things like non-dedicated servers, yeah bad idea though I don't think this will last. Putting consoles aside there always seems to be a steady stream of games for the PC. If anything consoles help make gaming more popular and affordable for more people. Yes, some of these games are ported over to PC, and yes some poorly. Thing is, would half of these games even exist if it wasn't for the popularity of consoles? I doubt it as the money just wouldn't be there. In terms of other industries out there, the gaming industry is relatively new and there are growing pains with everything. If you are a PC gamer and feel shafted that a game isn't to your liking, don't buy it. If others do the same and the game doesn't sell, the company selling the game will get the point. Ultimately it comes down to the most basic economic principal of supply and demand.

Then again if you feel shafted by consoles, have you always felt this way? That would make sense to me. If not, when would you say this started happening?


----------



## Mussels (Mar 19, 2010)

erocker said:


> There are always a couple games going around that a high end PC will struggle to play. If you mean "dumbed down" by things like non-dedicated servers, yeah bad idea though I don't think this will last. Putting consoles aside there always seems to be a steady stream of games for the PC. If anything consoles help make gaming more popular and affordable for more people. Yes, some of these games are ported over to PC, and yes some poorly. Thing is, would half of these games even exist if it wasn't for the popularity of consoles? I doubt it as the money just wouldn't be there. In terms of other industries out there, the gaming industry is relatively new and there are growing pains with everything. If you are a PC gamer and feel shafted that a game isn't to your liking, don't buy it. If others do the same and the game doesn't sell, the company selling the game will get the point. Ultimately it comes down to the most basic economic principal of supply and demand.
> 
> Then again if you feel shafted by consoles, have you always felt this way? That would make sense to me. If not, when would you say this started happening?



yes, by dumbed down we mean features missing - especially features in the original game, removed for the sequel. supreme commander is a perfect example of how the game got dumbed down for console, and the PC version suffered for it.


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 19, 2010)

I think the PC gamers gets majorly shafted over GPU prices   FFS, Im playing God of War 3 and its truly awe-inspiring, yet most decent GPU's cost more than a PS3 

And designing games for a console, then porting it 'BADLY' to the PC is disgraceful.

Im not a PC gamer anymore, but that doesnt stop me feeling sorry for you guys that spend £££'s on building awesome kick-ass rigs and get given POS titles to play on it.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 19, 2010)

HookeyStreet said:


> I think the PC gamers gets majorly shafted over GPU prices   FFS, Im playing God of War 3 and its truly awe-inspiring, yet most decent GPU's cost more than a PS3
> 
> And designing games for a console, then porting it 'BADLY' to the PC is disgraceful.
> 
> Im not a PC gamer anymore, but that doesnt stop me feeling sorry for you guys that spend £££'s on building awesome kick-ass rigs and get given POS titles to play on it.



prices aint that bad, you can play most console ports really well on an 8800GT, and you can get well above their speed for under $200 au - and you bet your arse that PS3's cost a lot more than that here.


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 19, 2010)

Mussels said:


> prices aint that bad, you can play most console ports really well on an 8800GT, and you can get well above their speed for under $200 au - and you bet your arse that PS3's cost a lot more than that here.



Sorry, I was talking about the top end cards.  The 5870's are about £250 in the UK and you can pick up a new PS3 Slim for that   But yeah, you can run console ports on lesser cards.  But with PC gaming, you ALWAYS feel that you need the top card at that time (or at least runner up lol)  Well, I used to think like that 

What card do you think it would take to run GoW3 ported to PC at the same level of detail?  I take it GoW3 is mainly using the CPU, not the pathetic nVIDIA GPU?


----------



## Frizz (Mar 19, 2010)

Shafted? Hell yes

There are a few exclusive games I'd want to see on PC, Heavy Rain was one of those titles and I'm deeply disappointed it was only released for the PS3 as I was a big fan of Fahrenheit (Which was released on PC).

I think the only good reason they have of shafting us PC gamers is piracy, other reasons could be... "too hard to code"


----------



## Mussels (Mar 19, 2010)

HookeyStreet said:


> Sorry, I was talking about the top end cards.  The 5870's are about £250 in the UK and you can pick up a new PS3 Slim for that   But yeah, you can run console ports on lesser cards.  But with PC gaming, you ALWAYS feel that you need the top card at that time (or at least runner up lol)  Well, I used to think like that
> 
> What card do you think it would take to run GoW3 ported to PC at the same level of detail?  I take it GoW3 is mainly using the CPU, not the pathetic nVIDIA GPU?



it shouldnt take that much.

i spent $400 au on my two 4870's, and havent found a game i cant max out with 4xaa and getting 45 FPS+ (excluding a few buggy games that lag for everyone)


----------



## Frizz (Mar 19, 2010)

Mussels said:


> it shouldnt take that much.
> 
> i spent $400 au on my two 4870's, and havent found a game i cant max out with 4xaa and getting 45 FPS+ (excluding a few buggy games that lag for everyone)




Its funny because the more consoles develop, the more they resemble functions of a PC. 


Anyways yeah I could probably use 500-600 AUD to make a gaming rig that performs better than a PS3. (peripherals and case excluded). Still wouldn't change the fact we're being butt raped by bad ports.


----------



## Marineborn (Mar 19, 2010)

theres good games coming out far and few between and the really good ones are usually single player take metro 2033 for example but 4A did a amazing job on it against everyones nay saying. WHERE YOU AT NOW NAYSAYING SONS A BITCHES!1`!! but yeah...bc2 is a awesome game and we can always hope that eventually thell release lan support or dedicated servers for it once they smooth everything out and people start dropping out and they want em back


----------



## Mussels (Mar 19, 2010)

my hope with BC2 is that when they get a sequel out, they'll stop providing the pay servers, and release it for free - and move the 'pay' servers over to the sequel/new title.


----------



## Frizz (Mar 19, 2010)

I miss being able to play against the max amount of AI vs me and my mates over LAN... I will be SERIOUSLY PISSED OFF if they take away LAN from BF3, Blizzard managed to do so for Starcraft II so I won't be surprised if they do.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 19, 2010)

randomflip said:


> I miss being able to play against the max amount of AI vs me and my mates over LAN...



LAN gaming is dying off - only pirates get LAN games these days (modern warfare 2, Dawn of war II, resident evil 5 and Red alert 3 all have online coop, with cracks available for LAN play with no net connection)


its really stupid and annoying, especially to me since i'm a hardcore lanner.


----------



## Frizz (Mar 19, 2010)

Mussels said:


> LAN gaming is dying off - only pirates get LAN games these days (modern warfare 2, Dawn of war II, resident evil 5 and Red alert 3 all have online coop, with cracks available for LAN play with no net connection)
> 
> 
> its really stupid and annoying, especially to me since i'm a hardcore lanner.




Ahh well come to think of it, we have VPN! Its more of a bitch to setup though


----------



## Mussels (Mar 19, 2010)

randomflip said:


> Ahh well come to think of it, we have VPN! Its more of a bitch to setup though



no, because all these stupid games require you to be online and everything routed online through your net connection - VPN doesnt work, as its another form of lan.


Its really stupid in some ways - for example, i was at a friends place and 4 of us wanted to play sup com 2. we couldnt, because their net upload speed wasnt high enough - lagged out.

How is this related to the consoles? because consoles have split screen MP, or online. They very very rarely have lan MP, so when its ported to PC they just dont bother adding it in (and in some cases, the consoles have more MP options than PC - halo coop being one mode)


----------



## erocker (Mar 19, 2010)

HookeyStreet said:


> I think the PC gamers gets majorly shafted over GPU prices   FFS, Im playing God of War 3 and its truly awe-inspiring, yet most decent GPU's cost more than a PS3
> 
> And designing games for a console, then porting it 'BADLY' to the PC is disgraceful.
> 
> Im not a PC gamer anymore, but that doesnt stop me feeling sorry for you guys that spend £££'s on building awesome kick-ass rigs and get given POS titles to play on it.



Don't feel sorry for me, I'm happy. I put my video cards to work just fine. So, I don't feel shafted. Then again, I'm somewhat of an optimist. Going through life feeling upset and shafted just isn't the way to go. For me anyways.  No sense in feeling shafted anyways, if you do, do something about it.


----------



## Frizz (Mar 20, 2010)

erocker said:


> Don't feel sorry for me, I'm happy. I put my video cards to work just fine. So, I don't feel shafted. Then again, I'm somewhat of an optimist. Going through life feeling upset and shafted just isn't the way to go. For me anyways.  No sense in feeling shafted anyways, if you do, do something about it.



Oh yeah, in terms of hardware, no not feeling shafted at all.. the hardware I have now could probably last another 2 or 3 generations.

I can run games 60 FPS fine, just BF Bad Company 2 etc are a bit of system hogs, I could always just pick up another 4890 for less than $200 AUD if I ever feel like its starting to slow down but other than that this setup should last me some more years. Building this PC has been more rewarding as a hobby than when I bought my PS3, WII and Sexbox 360 as I do more than just game on my PC.


----------



## SK-1 (Mar 20, 2010)

randomflip said:


> Its funny because the more consoles develop, the more they resemble functions of a PC.
> .



Touché. Leaders lead, followers get thumb cramps.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Mar 20, 2010)

I think the only way PC gamers won't get shafted is if a new genre of game is created that can only be ran on computer hardware (huge memory footprint).  I can only think of three major booms for PC gaming:

1. Wallenstein 3D/Doom - the FPS revolution.  This came at the time of NES.  No other hardware platform at that time could do 2.5D/3D in realtime.

2. Command & Conquer - RTS and mouse merge to form a perfect union.  The mouse is the key here and, while joysticks try to keep up, RTS games are still the best with mice (which is still mostly only found on computers).

3. The Sims - To this day, only the computer can really handle it because of the memory footprint in addition to heavy reliance on the mouse.


The problem right now is all of the above genres have been dumbed down to work well enough on consoles (consolitis for everyone) and gamers, in general, aren't revolting.  Console gamers should be frustrated at these games for being so much trouble to control (auto aims and the like), but they are not.  That is the heart of the problem: console gamers want dumbed down and they are the lionshare of the market.

So, what Windows needs is innovation.  Spore could have been that but it just didn't hit it out of the park.  We need something like spore, but more mature, detailed, and have depths of story.  Consoles choke on the hardware requirements of games like Spore so, games like Spore are the future of PC gaming for at least five years once they hit the shelf.  Until then, the PC market will continue to stagnate as developers place more and more focus on dumbing down franchises for console gamers.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Mar 20, 2010)

SK-1 said:


> Touché. Leaders lead, followers get thumb cramps.



The closest Interface i have seen to a Keyboard and mouse is wii controls as of accuracy, no thumsticks to deal with which have a certain deadzone in them and can be unresponsive at times. I can say we are being shafted over 3 years now.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 20, 2010)

1. auto aim and lower difficulty allow FPS games to work on console. PC gamers are getting easier and easier games, with the exception of MP where having humans stuck on the same difficulty level (all with aim assistance, such as BC2's knife aim thing) kinda evens things

2. look what RTS on console did to sup com 2 

3. heh, buggy games ftw  those games are on consoles, but god damn even the sims 2 lags really bad on PC at times.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Mar 20, 2010)

Mussels said:


> 1. auto aim and lower difficulty allow FPS games to work on console. PC gamers are getting easier and easier games, with the exception of MP where having humans stuck on the same difficulty level (all with aim assistance, such as BC2's knife aim thing) kinda evens things
> 
> 2. look what RTS on console did to sup com 2
> 
> 3. heh, buggy games ftw  those games are on consoles, but god damn even the sims 2 lags really bad on PC at times.



Due to fact games are developed on Console because Game Devs think Consoles are where the money is when they are absolutely wrong. They are just hurting themselves in the long run. PCs stay pretty stable as of Operating System Code, only difference is mainly the Video card and Audio card that is being used.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 20, 2010)

eidairaman1 said:


> Due to fact games are developed on Console because Game Devs think Consoles are where the money is when they are absolutely wrong. They are just hurting themselves in the long run. PCs stay pretty stable as of Operating System Code, only difference is mainly the Video card and Audio card that is being used.



i'm really hoping that MS does some 360 to PC crossover shit, making it so that MS has a required level of power (CPU, ram, VGA) and generic drivers that are compatible - meaning that a game that works on a 360 (or its successor) is guaranteed to run on PC.

Lets say the OS's are mostly compatible, all you'd need is:

DirectX 10 GPU, 512MB of ram - at least 8800GT speeds (vague estimate)
2.2GHz dual core CPU (or better)
2GB system ram (or better)

or they fix the WEI scores so that "4.0 = 360 performance" kinda thing. If the 360 used an OS/drivers compatible with windows, it should be easy to make it work on PC - the engines would be designed around 'compatible' drivers/hardware.


Its the proprietary nature of consoles thats killing them, really.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Mar 20, 2010)

If Vista wasn't such a Debacle for MS and other users then Games For Windows Might of had a Very High Chance of making it off the Ground. Windows 7 runs great on this machine other than generic support of the Chipset which in fact is hindering gaming performance.



Mussels said:


> i'm really hoping that MS does some 360 to PC crossover shit, making it so that MS has a required level of power (CPU, ram, VGA) and generic drivers that are compatible - meaning that a game that works on a 360 (or its successor) is guaranteed to run on PC.
> 
> Lets say the OS's are mostly compatible, all you'd need is:
> 
> ...


----------



## Mussels (Mar 20, 2010)

even with games for windows, they spend far too much time porting them across - if they'd gone and followed say, the DX9 specs fully on the 360 - the games would port much easier, just have to do some tweaks for the controls really.

(and then, they'd leave it upto Nvidia/ATI to make sure their drivers ran the games right, instead of this porting and farting about with broken features that didnt translate right)


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Mar 20, 2010)

Mussels said:


> Lets say the OS's are mostly compatible, all you'd need is:
> 
> DirectX 10 GPU, 512MB of ram - at least 8800GT speeds (vague estimate)
> 2.2GHz dual core CPU (or better)
> ...


I hope Windows 7 and the next Xbox are practically the same OS.  What Microsoft must aim for is Xbox games that work on Windows and Xbox.  That is, take the disk, shove it in your computer, change a few settings, it works on Windows or, take the same disk, shove it in your Xbox, and it works.  They need to try really hard to merge the two.  It is the only way to stop Windows from becoming functionally obsolete as a gaming platform as more and more developers move away from it.


----------



## imperialreign (Mar 20, 2010)

TBH, I kinda agree that dedicated PC gamers are getting the short end of the stick . . .

One of my biggest gripes tends to be lack of player control in some games . . . most recent example would be Metro.  Although it's an excellent game, and the visuals are stunning, I can't help but feel that the lack of some "standard" forms of movement (i.e. leaning L/R) are due more to the limitations of the console port than anything else . . .


----------



## pr0n Inspector (Mar 20, 2010)

Mussels said:


> i'm really hoping that MS does some 360 to PC crossover shit, making it so that MS has a required level of power (CPU, ram, VGA) and generic drivers that are compatible - meaning that a game that works on a 360 (or its successor) is guaranteed to run on PC.
> 
> Lets say the OS's are mostly compatible, all you'd need is:
> 
> ...



And in the end it means a PC version stuck on a XBOX360 disc. The 360 'OS' is less than 16MB in size. It doesn't even use a x86 CPU.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Mar 20, 2010)

Which was a huge mistake going from the Xbox to Xbox 360.  They are now committed to using IBM processors in the next Xbox basically, Microsoft killed Windows as a viable gaming platform and they couldn't care less that they did.


----------



## pr0n Inspector (Mar 20, 2010)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Which was a huge mistake going from the Xbox to Xbox 360.  They are now committed to using IBM processors in the next Xbox basically, Microsoft killed Windows as a viable gaming platform and they couldn't care less that they did.



Can I run x64 Xfce on x64 Windows? no i cannot.  i think you know where i'm  going.


----------



## Frizz (Mar 21, 2010)

What I found weird is... the GPU equivalent of the PS3 and Xbox 360 are at the level of ATI x1950... which is how many generations behind? 

I've always wondered, is this the only kind of hardware we need to run the latest games? I've seen some videos on youtube, good amount of people still posting up videos and look almost the same as console performance on some games with the card.

Is this true? Would we be so far in-front if games were made exclusively on the PC? In terms of performance.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 21, 2010)

randomflip said:


> What I found weird is... the GPU equivalent of the PS3 and Xbox 360 are at the level of ATI x1950... which is how many generations behind?
> 
> I've always wondered, is this the only kind of hardware we need to run the latest games? I've seen some videos on youtube, good amount of people still posting up videos and look almost the same as console performance on some games with the card.
> 
> Is this true? Would we be so far in-front if games were made exclusively on the PC? In terms of performance.



in the same way nvidia and ATI do performance tweaks in drivers, these games do their own tweaks in the game engines.

You know, they have tons of shader power and limited ram power, so they use post processing to blur over the low quality textures, letting them focus more power on lara crofts high quality textured ass.


The same would be possible on PC - but then you'd get some people whining about the low quality textures on their $500 cards, and the $100 card owners whining they cant run the game... hence, adjustable game options


----------



## HammerON (Mar 21, 2010)

I said "Yes" just because I am a follower
No - JK! I don't own a counsel and don't plan to as I like building computers (gaming and crunching). However I have seen a decline in the support of PC games and find that disturbing...


----------



## Frizz (Mar 21, 2010)

Mussels said:


> in the same way nvidia and ATI do performance tweaks in drivers, these games do their own tweaks in the game engines.
> 
> You know, they have tons of shader power and limited ram power, so they use post processing to blur over the low quality textures, letting them focus more power on lara crofts high quality textured ass.
> 
> ...




I guess that pretty much answers what we get when we invest reasonable amounts of money into our PC and of course not to mention the performance difference. 

someone needs to invent a Playstation Computer Box 360 to provide for the lazy devs and half assed ports


----------



## Munki (Mar 21, 2010)

This seems the perfect place to make my rant.....those damn dol' Activision fuckaz didn't release Call Of Duty 3 for the PC, i'm wrapping up COD2, now I have to skip to 4.....whose damn idea was that!?!?!


*RAWR*


----------



## eidairaman1 (Mar 21, 2010)

I remember having Need for Speed Underground running at maximum settings for a PC and looking way better than on the Console at the time and that was with 128MB 9700 Pro Desktop and a 9800 256 In the laptop. People came by and said the game looks better on the PC and i said that is because there is way more potential a PC has that a console will never have plus a PC is easily upgraded where a Console you have to buy a totally new one which then new controllers and new software.


----------



## pr0n Inspector (Mar 21, 2010)

randomflip said:


> What I found weird is... the GPU equivalent of the PS3 and Xbox 360 are at the level of ATI x1950... which is how many generations behind?
> 
> I've always wondered, is this the only kind of hardware we need to run the latest games? I've seen some videos on youtube, good amount of people still posting up videos and look almost the same as console performance on some games with the card.
> 
> Is this true? Would we be so far in-front if games were made exclusively on the PC? In terms of performance.



Xbox 360 is over 4 years old, PS3 over 3 years. 3 years is an eternity in the PC hardware market. From a PC gaming POV, it's almost a miracle that they can still run games decently.

Also, consoles all share the the same hardware, so devs can tweak their games to death. and they have tiny embedded  OSes that have far fewer abstraction layers or other unnecessary features that bog down the machine. If they make a console today with a PII945 or equivalent, a 4870 and 2GiB of RAM, naturally it would rape a much pricier PC in both holes.


----------



## vbx (Mar 21, 2010)

I guessing future consoles with have the ability to easily upgrade their graphic engine.  All they have to do is design a console in a way that the graphic engine can easily be replaced just by removing some screws or pulling some tab to remove the graphic engine and sliding in the new Graphic engine. 

This way, Console manufacturer can make more money by selling the upgrades for $100 or so instead of making an entirely new system from scratch.  Maybe even a CPU upgrade as well.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Mar 21, 2010)

vbx said:


> I guessing future consoles with have the ability to easily upgrade their graphic engine.  All they have to do is design a console in a way that the graphic engine can easily be replaced just by removing some screws or pulling some tab to remove the graphic engine and sliding in the new Graphic engine.
> 
> This way, Console manufacturer can make more money by selling the upgrades for $100 or so instead of making an entirely new system from scratch.  Maybe even a CPU upgrade as well.




Kind of funny that for 1 consoles have no AA or AF, and 2 MS had several problems with their Consoles overheating and the GPUs failing with RROD, they still exist today.


----------



## pr0n Inspector (Mar 21, 2010)

eidairaman1 said:


> Kind of funny that for 1 consoles have *no AA or A*F, and 2 MS had several problems with their Consoles overheating and the GPUs failing with RROD, they still exist today.



How can you say that with a straight face?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Mar 21, 2010)

Simple its a computer screen im chatting into, and also I find MS very flaky in 2004-2009, Win 7 is actually something worth going to for game development as of DX10-DX11, TBH it's time to move away from DX 9.


----------



## pr0n Inspector (Mar 21, 2010)

eidairaman1 said:


> Simple its a computer screen im chatting into, and also I find MS very flaky in 2004-2009, Win 7 is actually something worth going to for game development as of DX10-DX11, TBH it's time to move away from DX 9.



How do you chat into a computer screen? Are you human?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Mar 21, 2010)

Negative I am not human, I am a cyborg.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 21, 2010)

eidairaman1 said:


> Kind of funny that for 1 consoles have no AA or AF, and 2 MS had several problems with their Consoles overheating and the GPUs failing with RROD, they still exist today.



Consoles have both AA and AF - they just arent user selectable.



eidairaman1 said:


> Negative I am not human, I am a cyborg.



Negative. I am a meat popsicle.


----------



## B1u3B33ry (Mar 22, 2010)

I agree. Game companies have been moving toward the game consoles and leaving the PC/Mac behind.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 22, 2010)

B1u3B33ry said:


> I agree. Game companies have been moving toward the game consoles and leaving the PC/Mac behind.



for the mac to be left behind, it'd actually have to be part of the race  


Valve has done PC gaming a big boost with support macs - in this era of dropping PC's off the map, valve has done the opposite and added another PC platform (intel macs) to their lineup.

We all need to buy valve games and support one of the few game makers that still loves us!


----------



## MadClown (Mar 22, 2010)

Agreed, go Valve!


----------



## ArmoredCavalry (Mar 22, 2010)

MadClown said:


> Agreed, go Valve!



I still like to patronize other digital distributors. Impulse is probably my favorite non-Steam dd at the moment.

I have tried Gamer's Gate (42 bucks for BC2!), and have a few games from Direct 2 Drive as well.

I will say Steam is the nicest, but I'd rather spread my money around so that digital distribution doesn't become (essentially) a monopoly.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 23, 2010)

i use impulse and steam. Then i add my impulse games as non-steam games, and get the steam overlay in them


----------



## D007 (Mar 23, 2010)

Ahh the wonderful world of the shaft..
Loved how crappy bioshock 2 looked..
Should off had a better mass effect 2 as well, in regards to graphics.
Every single time I play a game that's ported, i can tell.

I use to own a console.
I left that crap for a reason.
Learned how to build and repair my own computers. (mostly from techpowerup) lol..
Went through all the insane amounts of trouble learning how to do all of that.
Just to not have to play on a crappy console anymore.

A pc is, has and always will be a superior machine.
It is worth every single extra step and measure, for a superior gaming experience.

I have more valve games than from anywhere else..lol

Calvin... Meet the console..
You know what yo do..


----------



## Msap14 (Mar 23, 2010)

*My 2 cents*

I do not currently have a console or frequently play any pc games. used to have a 360 but got bored of it and sold it.  PC is getting old and i need a new one but can't necessarily pay for it right now.

People go to where other people are: if their friends play on consoles they will play on consoles.

I grew up playing computer games but everyone in my school has either a 360 or ps3 with little knowledge of what a computer even is. Consoles are much easier for everyone to use, console games are advertised to the public much more than any computer games or computer platforms.

Advertising is HUGE, if you ask a console gamer chances are they don't really know a lot about any comptuer games, they've heard of WoW and the majority of people will rag on comptuer gamers, basing their prejudice on the image South Park portraited with their WoW episode.  Alienware has an occasional commercial and so do a few other companies but not enough to really get people looking into comptuer gaming, sure the BC2 commercials have a little coptuer logo on the bottom representing pc gamers but at the end you see what? a microsoft xbox 360 logo flash accross the screen, not a windows symbol.

One thing to think about is the amount of players.  WoW has some what? 5 million subscribers (sure a handful are multiboxes but not a big enough factor) this number of subscribers is 500,000 than what cliff B from epic had said gears was standing at.  with this many subscribers and all the expansions that game has produced with another in development, blizzard is doing exceptionally well in the pc gamer community.

I think people go to consoles because they are cheaper, easier to use, more exposed to the consoles through advertising, and consoles are more talked about than computers, ecspecially through their friends.

pretty neutral on the subject, computers produce much better graphics and more functionality, with the capability of 3 curved lcd screens and surround sound computers have a much higher potential but this all costs $$$$.

also something to think about is the targeted market.  Today kids are playing games such as gears that are rated M (i believe) and these kids are 12 years old.  a 12 year old cousin of mine couldn't understand to move the mouse this way and hit this key combination to do this and hit these keys to do that.  along with the highschool teenager factor, this is where the real $ is at for the developers.  highschoolers can't exactly pay for the games and consoles themselves but they do occasionally with groups of friends all gaming all weekend and talking about it during lunch on monday.  They're parents/teen won't want to spend 700$ on a computer gaming system if they can buy a 300$ console that seemingly mroe people use.

(ranted )

devising a 'plan to get developers more interested in producing quality pc games will take a lot of effort. just wanted to list a few things that may influence you and im not sure if any of this has been covered previously.


----------



## epicfail (Mar 23, 2010)

Msap14 said:


> I do not currently have a console or frequently play any pc games. used to have a 360 but got bored of it and sold it.  PC is getting old and i need a new one but can't necessarily pay for it right now.
> 
> People go to where other people are: if their friends play on consoles they will play on consoles.
> 
> ...



ya its the exact thing at my school everyone plays dam xbox 360, its kind of sad though because i only play it when i hang out with them, and can still kick there asses at it, k other than one guy that plays halo and cod as much as i play my games on the computer so he destroys me for having the home controller advantages.


----------



## Msap14 (Mar 23, 2010)

i personally, for some games at least, love playing games with controllers and that's why they have the computer controllers 8))))


----------



## epicfail (Mar 23, 2010)

Msap14 said:


> i personally, for some games at least, love playing games with controllers and that's why they have the computer controllers 8))))



ahh ya thats just another thing to add that i hate about consoles :shadedshu
dont like the feel of it, after playing 14 years of mouse and keyboard theres no going to the darkside for me.
i can still easily use them i just dont like them.
gaming is gaming afterall, if your any good at gaming you will do good any controller you have.


----------



## keling (Mar 23, 2010)

Whatever happened to the XNA? Didn't Microsoft say it will help making games for both Xbox360 and PC would be easier than shoving a pc hdd into an xbox360. I haven't seen that dream come true yet, especially after Alan Wake. There are more Xbox360 games made using the XNA than the PC. I wonder if XNA is merely used to get modders away from the PC. The only thing that I've heard that resemble XNA's capabilities but actually practical is the Crysis 2 game engine-of course I got that from news interview, the result is yet to be seen.


----------



## Dark (Apr 19, 2010)

This is a QFT, these PC games are getting pretty bad lately, MODs make the game better, i'm about to get real strict on where i spend my pc gaming money. 
After MW2 and now BFBC2 with it's no MOD TOOLS and clunky interface, i'm only buying pc game developed for pc only, i'm tired of these lazy development companies taking advantage of the pc gamers. 
We made these companies what they are today and what do they do? turn around and slap the pc gamers in the face. 

I think NVIDIA/ATI/AMD/INTEL better start taking up for the pc gamers as well and start demanding that these companies start creating real pc games, because if the pc gamers start to stop buying the pc games, especially the high end pc games, then they will lose billions, who do you think buys the graphics cards,mobo's/i7's/II x4's/ ect... ect...? 
The pc gamers, and if the pc gamers go out of the picture, then ps3/360 and these development companies will be in deep poo, because whether anyone knows it or not, the pc gamers and games drive the market. 

I'm really seriously going to be real picky about what pc games i'll be buying, and if you think just because i'm getting another ps3 soon that i'll buy developers titles like IW's or shall i say there new company AKA RESPAWN or EA titles after this, you're wrong i'll only be buying ps3 only titles, like GOW,SC,M.A.G,KZ2 ect.


----------



## Zen_ (Apr 19, 2010)

It's nice to see others who share my opinion about the sordid state of FPS PC gaming. 

I built my first computer to play Unreal Tournament when I was 16. Many all night sprees, destroyed my stomach lining with Mountain Dew and it certainly left an indelible impression of what PC gaming should be all about. Looking back it seems funny how serious the Quake vs. UT fanboy debate was when they were both amazing games. Look what we have now, MW2 and BC2. MW2 has no dedicated servers and is all DLC. BC2 launched with a ridiculous number of bugs and nonworking features and will not have mod tools or custom anything. It may as well be no dedicated servers because you're basically paying to run a server exactly how DICE wants you to. 

Maybe I'm being a little hypocritical because I do play BC2, I'm an FPS junkie, but we're not ever going back to the good old days. Epic is out of the PC gaming business, id is working on a new game but is for the most part out and Valve has nothing on the horizon either. Infinity Ward and DICE are picking the carcass for whatever is left with their cookie cutter console ports. I hope that a new developer comes to the rescue for FPS gaming on the PC but I'm not holding my breath since the average gamer seems to like how much the genre has been watered down. The classic shoot 'em up fast paced FPS is apparently too difficult for the crowd that wants "realism" so they can sit in a bush sniping for 20 minutes with an amazing score of 4-0. And don't even get me started with all this unlockable gear and award crap...


----------



## Dark (Apr 19, 2010)

I agree, but now the Jason West and Zack Zampella have been fired from IW for making deals with EA behind ACTI's back.
They are now Getting their own new development company under the EA umbrella called RESPAWN ENTERTAINMENT, and this month along half of the IW team has left IW to join them at RESPAWN ENT. the lead character designer, the lead animator, the lead multiplayer level designer ect. ect.

I will not be buying anything from that company either, i will hold out for a development company that will make pc games for the pc and not just watered down apple juice.


----------



## Dazzeerr (Apr 19, 2010)

We're getting the shaft because it's easier for the dev's. What they need to realise though is if they make the right kind of games, with the right features they can make a lot of money from us.

VALVe still care about the PC community and this is probably partly why...
(Doug Lombari of VALVe on The Orange Box sales)


 Doug Lombari: I'd say significantly stronger, at least a two-digit percentage increase over the console sales. And that includes Steam sales, retail sales, and now individual sales of Portal, Team Fortress 2, and Half-Life 2: Episode 2. So when you take the PC numbers for The Orange Box a la carte, they're significantly higher.

Doug also confirms that PC gaming isn't dead, and that third-party titles are selling extremely well on Steam. Thanks Igor.

When you compare this to PC sales of MW2 only totalling 3% of their total sales, it shows where some companies are going wrong.



VALVe make what PC gamers enjoy. Great onliners with good customizability and mod-friendly games and they make the sales. Some other companies should follow, but don't probably because we are a minority.


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (Apr 19, 2010)

I think we are being shafted...I wish i could complain at Infinty Wards Forums but they Banned me..
and I didn't even break a rule I posted a question that is allowed...although distasteful in there eyes..

It was a perfectly fair question about closing a P2P hole that allows easy access for people with wall hacks and Aimbots..and for that I got the banhammer WTF..No warning No infraction just Banned


TPU and OCnet is all I really have left to complain on and i have not posted at OCnet for some time..

What really pisses me off was the recent price hikes..For what? New games on old engines! 2 years behind my Hardware! with regurgitated plots!
And Valve where the hell is HL2 ep3 I'm still waiting to go aboard that dammed ship!

I sign every petition about just these issues and Never pay full retail for any game


----------



## Dark (Apr 19, 2010)

Dazzeerr said:


> We're getting the shaft because it's easier for the dev's. What they need to realise though is if they make the right kind of games, with the right features they can make a lot of money from us.
> 
> VALVe still care about the PC community and this is probably partly why...
> (Doug Lombari of VALVe on The Orange Box sales)
> ...



I agree.


----------

