# Anno 2070's Draconian DRM: Guru3D's Graphics Card Review Killed Off



## qubit (Jan 15, 2012)

*Anno 2070's Draconian DRM: Guru3D's Graphics Card Review Killed Off (UPDATED)*

Hilbert Hagedoorn of well-known PC tech review site guru3d.com recently bought a copy of Ubisoft's Anno 2070 and wanted to use it in one of his graphics card reviews. However, he became badly unstuck. This game comes on the Steam platform and the store page states: _"3rd-party DRM: Solidshield Tages SAS 3 machine activation limit"_. Unfortunately for Guru3D, they found out exactly what this means, which resulted in just one performance graph, an aborted review, an unplayable game - and bad publicity for Ubisoft once again. They have published an article about their experience, pledging not to use their titles again because of this DRM.



 




The DRM in this game works in a similar way to Microsoft's product activation, in that it creates a hash value from certain key hardware components such as the motherboard, CPU, HDD (including mere partition changes!) and graphics cards among others, then uses this information to decide if the hardware has changed sufficiently to require a reactivation. It's that last one which caused the problem: Guru3D ran out of activations when swapping out graphics cards. Ubisoft claim in their FAQ (for Anno 1404, none available for Anno 2070, should be the same) that an email to their support department will grant you a new activation, _completely hassle-free_. They say this twice, in fact:





> *Question: How often can I activate my game?*
> Answer: To start with, you can activate your game on three different PC configurations - if you have used up these activations, simply contact our Support team who will provide you with further activations free of charge and without hassle.


and:





> *Question: I have already used the activation for three different PC configurations - can I get further activations?*
> Answer: Yes, if you do require further activations, please contact the Support team. They will provide you with new activations free of charge and without hassle.


However, in practice, this is certainly _not_ what happens. Hagerdoorn sent Ubisoft support an email requesting a reactivation, but still hasn't heard back from them. Then he contacted Ubisoft's marketing department, where he tells us:





> When contacting Ubisoft marketing here in the Netherlands, their reply goes like this: 'Sorry to disappoint you - the game is indeed restricted to 3 hardware changes and there simply is no way to bypass that. We also do not have 7 copies of the game for you'.
> 
> I'm sorry, but I am not about to purchase the title seven times to make a review that by default benefits Ubisoft sales.
> 
> ...


Given that what it says in the FAQ is at odds with what actually happens, since the customer gets significantly less than what was promised - getting stuck with an unplayable game - then Guru3D have a right to a refund, since the product isn't fit for purpose and we believe that they should pursue it.

Unsurprisingly, Guru3D's wonderful experience has been picked up elsewhere, among them Softpedia, who reported on it here and then an interesting follow-up here. In the second article, they point out four major problems with Ubisoft's super duper DRM that we believe are highly valid. We present a summary of their points here:

*1 The reviewing community will be more than frustrated*

The games won't be used for reviews, removing free publicity for them. In fact, there will be a notable absence of games employing this DRM, if it spreads. If the reviewer decides to jump through the reactivation hoops or buys extra copies (just sounds wrong, doesn't it?) they will voice their dissatisfaction. Loudly.


*2 The new DRM can damage the consumer hardware market if other developers imitate it*

The hardware lock-ins that these games impose will get more significant if this DRM is used by others such as EA, id Software etc, making the hardware market suffer. This will happen, because gamers won't want to change their hardware at all if they fear that they will lose their games. However, this doesn't seem that likely to happen in practice for a couple of reasons. The hardware manufacturers such as AMD won't be happy in getting caught in the crossfire and will likely have something to say about this. The other reason is that piracy will likely skyrocket and real sales this time will actually go down significantly.


*3 Game piracy will actually gain a measure of justification*

This one we feel is worth quoting in full:





> The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) was passed in the United States back in 1998 in order to impose criminal penalties on those who spread means meant to circumvent content protection technologies.
> 
> That was (arguably) all well and good, but game developers quickly found that piracy wasn't going anywhere, so they started inventing more and more ways to fight it.
> 
> ...


Yes, game developers dictating if and when you're allowed to upgrade your PC! Indeed, talk about giving potential customers a strong motive to pirate your product.


*4 Game developers would be better off just making their titles worth buying*

Piracy will never really go away, so quit worrying about what DRM you want to infect your product with and just make it DRM-free and _good_, then the customers will come. If DRM must be used, then don't get so draconian over it and put in something creative, such as an invincible enemy to thrash copyists around, as was included in Serious Sam 3.

These are Softpedia's four points and we would like to add that it has been well and truly proven by the DRM-free gog.com site and the various DRM-free music sites such as Amazon, that you can run a successful business without imposing DRM and make it more successful than with it.

The four points above seem quite reasonable to us and we hope, our readers too. Also, when reading that Anno 1404 FAQ, note how many hoops the hapless _honest_ customer has to jump through just to play their game. Quite an off-putting proposition, isn't it? Might as well just buy another game that doesn't impose this garbage on you... Of course, 'pirates' have no such problems and can run the game stripped of all its DRM. Mind you, they might get malware infected games this way, so this isn't so clever either, regardless of the morality of getting a dodgy copy.

As usual, we recommend to boycott purchasing the game over this issue, but just as importantly, _don't_ download a dodgy copy, either. That way, Ubisoft go down in flames without being able to point the finger at 'pirates' and they'll be forced to remove this ridiculous DRM.

Well then, despite its graphical excellence, along with Guru3D, this looks like one game that certainly won't be used as a review benchmark on TechPowerUp, a significant review site on the PC enthusiast tech scene.

*Ubisoft: well done in alienating your best possible promoters, all in the name of fighting 'piracy'. For shame.*

Update:
Guru3D have now updated their article with the following:





> Update monday Jan 16 - 2012:
> 
> We have been contacted by bluebyte over the weekend, the company that developed the Anno series. Our key has been pretty much unlocked allowing us to properly work on this article. To be continued ....


It would be nice to know a bit more detail, such as has the three machine limit been removed completely, etc. Still though, it seems unreasonable to have to jump through these bureaucratic hoops along with the wasted time and frustration just to play a game, or benchmark with it as in this case.

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## qubit (Jan 15, 2012)

Thanks to treehouse for this great news tip!


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## Wrigleyvillain (Jan 15, 2012)

Their games suck anyway.


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## newtekie1 (Jan 15, 2012)

I'm ok with DRM when implemented and handled properly.  Activation limits are fine as long as there is a quick and easy way for the consumer to re-activate when the need arises.  It sounds like Ubisoft tried to do that, but didn't follow through, at least not if you try to email support for a response.  Though the whole situation just started Thursday, so it has only been 48 hours that he has been waiting for a response to receive his extra activations.  Also, why email them and sit and wait in the queue for a response?  They give you a phone number in the manual for a reason, use it and get an instant response and instantly get re-activated, and I bet it isn't nearly as big of a deal if you do that.



Wrigleyvillain said:


> Their games suck anyway.



Actually Anno 2070 is a pretty bad ass game, so is the Assassin's Creed series.


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## qubit (Jan 15, 2012)

newtekie1 said:


> Also, why email them and sit and wait in the queue for a response? They give you a phone number in the manual for a reason, use it and get an instant response and instantly get re-activated, and I bet it isn't nearly as big of a deal if you do that.



Have you tried phoning them for a reactivation then? Did they reset you on the spot? That would help mitigate the problem somewhat, but is still a pain in the ass that I don't feel people should have to go through. The way Steam does it is way better. Period.

EDIT: I've just remembered that Ubisoft's marketing department told guru3d that it's three activations and that's it. A far cry from what the FAQ says, which makes all the difference.


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Jan 15, 2012)

Pirating isn't always so appealing either. Looking this up on the bay it seems like it's one of those everyone is having a zillion problems releases, and no crack for the latest patch. Though maybe the increased attention from this will make it happen.



newtekie1 said:


> Actually Anno 2070 is a pretty bad ass game, so is the Assassin's Creed series.



Assassins creed is a terrible game. I could barely tolerate it for 5 minutes. It's the embodiment of dull and watered down you always get when you don't trust the intelligence of your audience. Though unfortunately they're usually right to doubt the consumers intelligence.


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## xenocide (Jan 15, 2012)

Anno 2070 is not a bad ass game, between the terrible DRM, and the fact that it runs on *a single thread* the game is just not fun to play.  I was excited to try it out, but the more I read about it the more I heard it was just not worth the time, money, and frustration.


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## jalex3 (Jan 15, 2012)

I have not  bought a Ubistink game in years, even if its DRM free I refuse to give them as cent.
I upgrade hardware often and would like to use my games on my other computers. 

If games like theme hosptial and the old medal of honor games, had this DRM I would had to chuck the discs years ago.

I don't care you can contact them about it, You should not have to.

(NOTE: Not buying it does not mean I pirate it. It is stupid to add the to statistic that only supports their use of this crap.)


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## qubit (Jan 15, 2012)

jalex3 said:


> (NOTE: Not buying it does not mean I pirate it. It is stupid to add the to statistic that only supports their use of this crap.)



Exactly. I agree with your whole post, but this bit is especially important. Just vote with your wallet and they'll go down in flames.


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## hat (Jan 15, 2012)

I thought Ubisoft promised to stop with the overly excessive DRM bullshit not too long ago?


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## entropy13 (Jan 15, 2012)

hat said:


> I thought Ubisoft promised to stop with the overly excessive DRM bullshit not too long ago?



That's the "always-online" DRM, which they did stop using.


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## qubit (Jan 15, 2012)

hat said:


> I thought Ubisoft promised to stop with the overly excessive DRM bullshit not too long ago?



Also, weren't Ubisoft the ones that released some game DRM-free, saw it copied all over the place, yet still sold handsomely, yet they bitched about it and said never again?

If someone can google for an article on this (I'm feeling lazy after the effort of writing this article, lol) then that would help for future articles on them.


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## DrPepper (Jan 15, 2012)

hat said:


> I thought Ubisoft promised to stop with the overly excessive DRM bullshit not too long ago?



Never trust the french.


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## entropy13 (Jan 15, 2012)

qubit said:


> Also, weren't Ubisoft the ones that released some game DRM-free, saw it copied all over the place, yet still sold handsomely, yet they bitched about it and said never again?
> 
> If someone can google for an article on this (I'm feeling lazy after the effort of writing this article, lol) then that would help for future articles on them.



Well, I got this one.


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## qubit (Jan 15, 2012)

entropy13 said:


> Well, I got this one.



Thanks, but it's not quite what I was thinking of. It was totally DRM-free with no catches and despite the sales, they _still_ weren't happy.


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## LiveOrDie (Jan 15, 2012)

This is what cracks are for when crappy company's do this you turn to cracks


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## Liquid Cool (Jan 15, 2012)

UbiSoft?  Is this the company that ruined Far Cry?

LC


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## mediasorcerer (Jan 15, 2012)

Well done qubit great catch mate, thanks for staying on all this terrible corporate advantage taking of consumers who just want to pay the money and have a good time, not be utterly flabbergasted by malignant corporate whiplash policy that critically effects our ability to consume and enjoy, a privelege we PAY FOR .

It is not our fault there are pirates out there who copy, stop dumping it on us ubisoftcocks!!!


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## newtekie1 (Jan 15, 2012)

qubit said:


> Have you tried phoning them for a reactivation then? Did they reset you on the spot? That would help mitigate the problem somewhat, but is still a pain in the ass that I don't feel people should have to go through. The way Steam does it is way better. Period.
> 
> EDIT: I've just remembered that Ubisoft's marketing department told guru3d that it's three activations and that's it. A far cry from what the FAQ says, which makes all the difference.



Most people won't go through it, and the rare instance they do phoning them up and resetting the activations isn't a big deal. I do it daily with Windows, it is a fine system.

And I really don't care what the marketing department says, they aren't tech support, they don't have the power to reset activations, and hence what they say doesn't matter.  And because Hilbert Hagedoorn couldn't be bothered to call tech support and instead made a big write-up because they didn't return an email instantly we really don't know the real answer.

And since I don't own the game, I can't exactly call to have it re-activated.  That should be an avenue the person writing the article bashing the system should have done before writing the article bashing they system...

Generally though when I see "Contact technical support" I don't think "I'll email them and should get an instant response."


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## silkstone (Jan 15, 2012)

qubit said:


> Have you tried phoning them for a reactivation then? Did they reset you on the spot? That would help mitigate the problem somewhat, but is still a pain in the ass that I don't feel people should have to go through. The way Steam does it is way better. Period.
> 
> EDIT: I've just remembered that Ubisoft's marketing department told guru3d that it's three activations and that's it. A far cry from what the FAQ says, which makes all the difference.



What happens to people in non-european countries or countries without a ubisoft office? International calls every time you want to re-activate? No thanks.


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## qubit (Jan 15, 2012)

newtekie1 said:


> And since I don't own the game, I can't exactly call to have it re-activated.



Ok, it seemed like you owned it, from your previous reply.

Yes, you have a point about the phone activation. However, if you go to the Ubisoft support page linked to in the English language FAQ, you notice two things:

1 It's in German! (well, it's not English, put it that way  )

2 There doesn't appear to be a phone number or email address

This is hardly hassle-free and this very much gives the impression of a company that doesn't care about its customers.

Also, silkstone makes a very good point:



silkstone said:


> What happens to people in non-european countries or countries without a ubisoft office? International calls every time you want to re-activate? No thanks.


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## Solaris17 (Jan 15, 2012)

Man I really want to play this. it looks really sweet.


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## vrdublu (Jan 15, 2012)

DrPepper said:


> Never trust the french.



The most idiotic statement of this entire post.  Ohh and btw, " a lot" is not one word, genius.  I know this and English is my second language.


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## Jack Doph (Jan 15, 2012)

*Query..*

Q.. with all due respect Sir, I cannot find anything you refer to in regards to Ubisoft's online support being as difficult as you state. In fact, all my searches have revealed everything easy to use (complete with tutorials on how to use Tech Support), perfectly fine in English, as well as their European Main office's site being in Dutch (which Mr Hagedoorn has no probs with, naturally), not German.
Perhaps you can provide a link to satisfy my curiosity if nothing else? 

Piracy will always have more questions than answers associated with it in regards to getting around such an issue as you've mentioned. Even in Real Life™ one finds examples of blatant transgressions (I won't point and stare at China..), yet no progress seems to be stifled, as it can never be eradicated fully.

I do feel compelled to add: Guru3D is a great site that I've enjoyed for a great many years, but they also fall prey to being part of the 'sensationalism' crowd to boost or bolster their image, all for the sake of a few more potential hits on their site (which is heavily ad-sponsored, albeit for a good reason).
More exposure == more hits == more money from advertisers; et cetera, ad infinitum, ad nauseum :/
In my, obviously no so humble, opinion this is driven by oh-mighty-dollar, rather than truly having the end-user in mind - regardless of the camp you're part of.

Great awareness raiser though


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## dj-electric (Jan 15, 2012)

All i care is that massive 44% difference in performance at 2560X1600


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## entropy13 (Jan 15, 2012)

Why don't Ubisoft just give up? They're Cheese-Eating Surrender Monkeys FFS! 

Wiki page here.

More informative, TVTropes page here.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jan 15, 2012)

silkstone said:


> What happens to people in non-european countries or countries without a ubisoft office? International calls every time you want to re-activate? No thanks.



Not really a problem...

They could have a callcenter located in your country if not then they would most likely give you a 'local' number that redirects you to an international call center which spares you the cost....I just hope the curry isnt so strong you can smell it down the phone like most techsupport call centers when you call them up.


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## SteelSix (Jan 15, 2012)

A CD key tied to my email address is fine. Limit how many times I can change out my hardware?? That's BS. It's a freakin game for goodness sake. I've reactivated Windows dozens of times. At least Microsoft has an automated phone reactivation process.


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## WaroDaBeast (Jan 15, 2012)

The gaming industry should learn to understand that the easier it is to buy the game, the more people will buy it. If a game doesn't get released in my country, what do I do? Well, there's Steam and the others now, but what about before?

Besides, for DVD copies, you gotta admit that it's a pain to put the DVD in the drive and remove it afterwards. Whenever I got a game that requires the disc to be played, I use a crack. No need to go spelunking in my shelves anymore.




entropy13 said:


> Why don't Ubisoft just give up? They're Cheese-Eating Surrender Monkeys FFS!
> 
> Wiki page here.
> 
> More informative, TVTropes page here.



Of course they are. That explains why England had a whole dynasty of French kings after being invaded by the Normans, and also Charlemagne's empire, and that's without even mentioning the French colonial empire either. Oh, and as pointed out by the link towards tvtropes, they also helped a certain former British colony gain independence. I guess it's too hard remembering who helped your country become one.

Anyway... The whole truth is, the French were stupid. For some reason, they thought they'd be unbeatable by building a huge wall called the Maginot Line, which was easily circumvented by the Germans, what with their Blitzkrieg technique.

Since it would've been very demoralizing for the American troops to hear that such a powerful country got defeated that easily, the higher-ups told the grunts that the French had just surrendered like that.

Of course, as people don't like thinking — it hurts their poor lil' brain too much —, that oversimplification about the French surrendering as if it were the latest trend stuck. No word on French resistance, no word on the non-Jews hiding Jewish kids in the countryside, and pretending that they're their own kids to the Nazis.

Last but not least, a decision taken unilaterally by a president (and a general) doesn't mean the whole population agrees with it. Otherwise, I could say that the French are happy with President Sarkozy's first, which was to raise his salary (along with those of the other politicians') _a lot_.


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## Crap Daddy (Jan 15, 2012)

Outrageous, silly, insulting.


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## silkstone (Jan 15, 2012)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Not really a problem...
> 
> They could have a callcenter located in your country if not then they would most likely give you a 'local' number that redirects you to an international call center which spares you the cost....I just hope the curry isnt so strong you can smell it down the phone like most techsupport call centers when you call them up.



They could, but they don't


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## entropy13 (Jan 15, 2012)

Very OT post. 

Good thing there are spoiler tags.



Spoiler






WaroDaBeast said:


> Of course they are. That explains why England had a whole dynasty of French kings after being invaded by the Normans,



What? The Duke of Normandy had more in common with the King of Denmark than the King of France in 1066, considering they're both Vikings.

By your reasoning then, considering the Normans also captured Sicily and southern Italy during the Middle Ages...they are now Italians? Simply because Vikings went to Normandy, which just so happens to be in northern France, they are now French...and because they are now French, and they captured England, England is now under the French...?



WaroDaBeast said:


> and also Charlemagne's empire,



It's still kind of hazy there though, considering the "Franks" are still not that "distinct" so to speak, to the other Germanic tribes around that time. It's only when his sons "went their own ways" when "distinctions" started to arise.



WaroDaBeast said:


> and that's without even mentioning the French colonial empire either.



Well, the UK "lost" their colonies in the 20th Century relatively peacefully at least, likewise for the Netherlands. France lost Indochina in dramatic fashion however, wasting the only consistently excellent armed force they ever had (FFL) with useless commanders on the upper echelons of command. Then there's Algeria...



WaroDaBeast said:


> Oh, and as pointed out by the link towards tvtropes, they also helped a certain former British colony gain independence. I guess it's too hard remembering who helped your country become one.



It's more out of "the enemy of my enemy is my (temporary) friend" rather than any benevolent actions by France though. Considering the monarchy's approaching its death throes then. Afterwards there was the "Quasi War" between the two (although admittedly it's the French republic already)...



WaroDaBeast said:


> Since it would've been very demoralizing for the American troops to hear that such a powerful country got defeated that easily, the higher-ups told the grunts that the French had just surrendered like that.



That didn't happen. You're saying the likes of Eisenhower and Montgomery would lie to their own men when LeClerc and the 2nd Armored Division are with them? You're criticizing "oversimplification" by oversimplifying? 

Although admittedly, the French are still stupid and did surrender, especially with the establishment of Vichy France. The Netherlands and Belgium and Poland and Denmark and Norway didn't surrender, they got occupied. They still had their government-in-exile (and monarchy-in-exile when applicable). But in the case of the French, they surrendered. 



WaroDaBeast said:


> Of course, as people don't like thinking — it hurts their poor lil' brain too much —, that oversimplification about the French surrendering as if it were the latest trend stuck. No word on French resistance, no word on the non-Jews hiding Jewish kids in the countryside, and pretending that they're their own kids to the Nazis.



The French Resistance doesn't get really talked much, admittedly. Because France were sharply divided then, the Free French on one side and Vichy France in the other. So much for their "brotherhood" eh? The French can't even decide as one whole nation which side they are on. 



WaroDaBeast said:


> Last but not least, a decision taken unilaterally by a president (and a general) doesn't mean the whole population agrees with it. Otherwise, I could say that the French are happy with President Sarkozy's first, which was to raise his salary (along with those of the other politicians') _a lot_.



So why the f**k was that midget elected then? By "divine right of kings" and not by elections? 

Well, I guess he won't be re-elected then though. But then again if the ultranationalists win...woe betide to France, and the EU too.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jan 15, 2012)

silkstone said:


> They could, but they don't



In that case it sucks to be you. I will never buy another Ubisoft game. So I have no need to contact their support


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## Prima.Vera (Jan 15, 2012)

Liquid Cool said:


> UbiSoft?  Is this the company that ruined Far Cry?
> 
> LC



Yeah, I still think that the* Far Cry 1* was THE BEST game ever made by Ubisoft. And maybe LBA (Little Big Adventure) games.


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## TIGR (Jan 15, 2012)

I was about to buy this to benchmark for private/professional use. Thanks for the heads-up qubit and treehouse. I will not recommend Anno 2070 to gaming customers who ask for game recommendations unless/until this changes.

If you don't like a game, say so by not buying it. One of the best ways to get the message through.


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## uber_cookie (Jan 15, 2012)

It's kind of funny since Steam sort of promotes "play your games anywhere" which DRM prevents you from accessing and playing games from other computers...

Maybe it's time they came up with something different for Steam, something like embed Steam agent code into the executable which would lock it to your account and not to the computer. PCs get replaced/upgraded more frequently, not like console which lasts 10years...


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## digibucc (Jan 15, 2012)

settlers 7 was enough to stop me buying any more Ubisoft games on pc.


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## Over_Lord (Jan 15, 2012)

Shame. The game was good.

Worked well when I used the, well, the corrected version


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## ice_v (Jan 15, 2012)

Solaris17 said:


> Man I really want to play this. it looks really sweet.



just use a corrected version like the user above, and all shall be fine


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## Quantos (Jan 15, 2012)

Which means that if you individually change a piece of hardware more than three times in your computer, you're not allowed to play the game anymore? Wow, that's dumb!


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## Mescalamba (Jan 15, 2012)

Im lucky that I play just BF3 and occasionaly WoW. Neither of these games will have DRM issues.. probably cause pirated copy is simply worthless.


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## gorg_graggel (Jan 15, 2012)

the activations reset every 30 days automatically. so unless you upgrade your system 3 times every month, as consumer you should be fine.
as reviewer/benchmarker you should contact support to let them up your activations by a large margin.

in guru3d's case the dutch ubisoft office (or at least his contact) wasn't correctly briefed or just plainly stupid, as he/she should have forwarded his request to blue byte (ubisofts german branch, who are the producers) to take care of it.

i have helped hilbert to establish contact with the right person, so as of yesterday he should be fine now.

disclaimer: i am not affiliated to any of the responsible companies, i just happen to know the right person in THIS case, so i could point him to help guru3d...


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## Gzero (Jan 15, 2012)

WaroDaBeast said:


> If a game doesn't get released in my country, what do I do? Well, there's Steam and the others now, but what about before?



Good luck with that, even the almighty Steam can't make games available to everyone, even if it was for short period it is still a huge hit on release day sales which as I'm sure everyone here knows is the most important point for games (usually used to determine what to do with the IP and game).


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## Gzero (Jan 15, 2012)

Mescalamba said:


> Im lucky that I play just BF3 and occasionaly WoW. Neither of these games will have DRM issues.. probably cause pirated copy is simply worthless.



Both have been pirated... you get wow private servers, and BF3 was in the top10 most downloaded stats.


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## qubit (Jan 15, 2012)

gorg_graggel said:


> the activations reset every 30 days automatically. so unless you upgrade your system 3 times every month, as consumer you should be fine.
> as reviewer/benchmarker you should contact support to let them up your activations by a large margin.
> 
> in guru3d's case the dutch ubisoft office (or at least his contact) wasn't correctly briefed or just plainly stupid, as he/she should have forwarded his request to blue byte (ubisofts german branch, who are the producers) to take care of it.
> ...


The FAQ doesn't say anything about activations resetting every 30 days, so how do you know this? More importantly, how is the customer, such as guru3d, supposed to know this? And why would Ubisoft increase their activation limits? Normally these corporate policies are set in stone.

If you've been in contact with Hilbert, then we can expect an updated article from him? His was only published yesterday, so we should see an update in the next day or so. I have a feeling we won't though. We'll see.


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## GSquadron (Jan 15, 2012)

Anno 2070? Seriously, same game from my pentium II?


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## Vancha (Jan 15, 2012)

Aleksander Dishnica said:


> Anno 2070? Seriously, same game from my pentium II?



Anno 2070 was released last year.


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## gorg_graggel (Jan 15, 2012)

you got pm regarding the "how do you know"...

actually the customer doesn't need to know this, because as i said, no one changes his config 3 times a month, except he is doing a review/benchmark. people who do this, contact support and should be ok, hence it's no priority to update the faq, i guess...

it was a fuck up on the dutch ubisoft office side of things.


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## keling (Jan 15, 2012)

I have the retail version of DCS A-10C and have used up 4 out of 10 activations. Shouldn't have installed the game just before a major PC upgrade. I'm torn between getting a crack/keygen or stay the course. This limited activation stuff is one of the reasons why I held off from getting the KA-50 Black Shark and LOMAC Flaming Cliffs 2.

Recently I installed a GTX 570 and now I'm afraid to start up the game. I have a legally bought game that I'm afraid to play and it's not even a horror survival game.

Even I'm afraid for my copy of OEM Windows 7 should the motherboard decided to die on me. I'm not from the US so not really sure of my chances of my begging for another cd key via the phone line.


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## newtekie1 (Jan 15, 2012)

qubit said:


> Ok, it seemed like you owned it, from your previous reply.
> 
> Yes, you have a point about the phone activation. However, if you go to the Ubisoft support page linked to in the English language FAQ, you notice two things:
> 
> ...



Why does where it links to matter?  The phone number you are supposed to call is in the manual.  If you bought it on Steam the number is wrong, but then you just look up Ubisoft's number on their contact page here.

And if you live in a country that doesn't have a phone number(I'm surprised Germany doesn't), then you email them and wait.  Yes a hassle, but one that should rarely affect 99% of users.



keling said:


> I have the retail version of DCS A-10C and have used up 4 out of 10 activations. Shouldn't have installed the game just before a major PC upgrade. I'm torn between getting a crack/keygen or stay the course. This limited activation stuff is one of the reasons why I held off from getting the KA-50 Black Shark and LOMAC Flaming Cliffs 2.
> 
> Recently I installed a GTX 570 and now I'm afraid to start up the game. I have a legally bought game that I'm afraid to play and it's not even a horror survival game.
> 
> Even I'm afraid for my copy of OEM Windows 7 should the motherboard decided to die on me. I'm not from the US so not really sure of my chances of my begging for another cd key via the phone line.



Microsoft's re-activation process is simple, and a great example of how the activation limit should be handled.  OEM copies say they only have 1 activation, but really can be activated 5+ times without problems, and when you finally do have problems you call the automated toll free number 24/7/365 and it re-activates.  This is the ideal way to handle activation limits.  As I said in the previous thread about this DRM by Ubisoft.  It seems like they had the intention of implementing a similar system, but fumbled it.  But then again, that was before I realized the original author of the article did nothing more than fire off an email to tech support when he didn't receive a response in 24 hours went on a rant instead of trying to contact tech support in a better manner.  I would like to know how fast they handle the activation issue when you call tech support.  Yes, they are only open Mon-Fri 9-9, and I would like to see 24/7/365 with an automated system.


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## RejZoR (Jan 15, 2012)

Ubisoft is full off bullshit lately. Just don't buy their games. They'll blame piracy for lack of buyers anyway...


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## DrPepper (Jan 15, 2012)

vrdublu said:


> The most idiotic statement of this entire post.  Ohh and btw, " a lot" is not one word, genius.  I know this and English is my second language.



You mean the most idiotic statement of this thread, since there is only one statement in that post.


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## Solaris17 (Jan 15, 2012)

ice_v said:


> just use a corrected version like the user above, and all shall be fine



nah i like being part of the group that doesnt cause this shit. thanks though. but when i do BUY the game Im going to rename the EXE boats and hoes. or w/e you need to modify for steam to see it as boats and hoes. im going to clock like 70 hours on boats with hoes.


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## TC-man (Jan 15, 2012)

Now, I remember that it's also Ubisoft who came with an other draconian copy protection many years ago, e.g. StarForce 3. So Ubisoft hasn't still learned from this mistake from the past. Perhaps some big digital distributors like Steam should stop distributing Ubisoft games with these kind of restrictions, because such restrictions indicate that their customers are just potential pirates/thieves who would just steal their games (really hope this gonna happen and let this be a very big lesson for Ubisoft), otherwise there wouldn't be such harsh restrictions on their games.


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## Solaris17 (Jan 15, 2012)

uber_cookie said:


> It's kind of funny since Steam sort of promotes "play your games anywhere" which DRM prevents you from accessing and playing games from other computers...
> 
> Maybe it's time they came up with something different for Steam, something like embed Steam agent code into the executable which would lock it to your account and not to the computer. PCs get replaced/upgraded more frequently, not like console which lasts 10years...



This is true. Maybe Steam should get in on the hate and refuse to offer DRM games. Of course they wont. but it would help alot.


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## scaminatrix (Jan 15, 2012)

The Ubsioft boycott just got more real...


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## amd/atifiend (Jan 15, 2012)

well said.....haven't bought an ubi game since supcom2.


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## reverze (Jan 15, 2012)

love anno series, but not buying it cause of DRM, good luck ubisoft with not going bankrupt cause of no piracy and no sales.


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## NdMk2o1o (Jan 15, 2012)

WaroDaBeast said:


> The gaming industry should learn to understand that the easier it is to buy the game, the more people will buy it. If a game doesn't get released in my country, what do I do? Well, there's Steam and the others now, but what about before?
> 
> Besides, for DVD copies, you gotta admit that it's a pain to put the DVD in the drive and remove it afterwards. Whenever I got a game that requires the disc to be played, I use a crack. No need to go spelunking in my shelves anymore.
> 
> ...



First part of the post fine, 2nd part pure and utter tripe, please go and rant over at GN if you really feel the need to give a history lesson. Oh and FYI it's not the first time the french have conceeded to the Germans, they have done it again and are now Germany's hand puppet in the sinking ship that is the EU, oh and didn't their credit rating also just get downgraded?


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## gorg_graggel (Jan 15, 2012)

are you guys seriously debating ww2 in a thread about drm?

c'mon...


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## Mescalamba (Jan 15, 2012)

Gzero said:


> Both have been pirated... you get wow private servers, and BF3 was in the top10 most downloaded stats.



Yes..

..but! 

BF3 .. well singleplayer is for one afternoon and plain boring. You can forget private servers, it has quite complex system for that.

WoW .. sure pirated a lot, lots of private servers. But do they match Blizzard servers?  Not even close. Most private servers are happy if they even manage to stay online for one day. 

As I said, its worthless downloads.. doesnt make any real damage. Difference is that legal version offers something that pirated cant. Thats why they dont need DRM. Apart of BF3 being pretty good game.


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## ironwolf (Jan 15, 2012)

I spend more than I probably should on games.  When I buy a legit game, some of the first things I do are: see if there are any offline patches to download and look for a no-cd/no-dvd crack.  I do not like having to keep the stupid game disc in the drive just to play my damn game and swapping them between games.  I have some games installed at home & work and don't care to truck the discs between the two.  I have some games that the stupid copy protection is iffy on it working and letting me actually play.  I feel like a DRM/copy protection prisoner.

These companies keep this up, I'll be voting with my $$$ and a big F-U + middle finger.


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## amd/atifiend (Jan 15, 2012)

The Game companies need to wise up and realize 2 key points imo: If they make a desirable product people will buy it and if the product is convenient people will buy it.

I'm sure many of you may or may not agree but for me steam makes it so easy that I'd rather spend a few bucks and get a legit copy. On top of that if you want a few months you can get deep discounts as well.


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## Wiselnvestor (Jan 16, 2012)

Boycotting Ubi ever since Raven shield.



Prima.Vera said:


> Yeah, I still think that the* Far Cry 1* was THE BEST game ever made by Ubisoft. And maybe LBA (Little Big Adventure) games.



Farcry 1 was made by Crytek, Ubi is only the publisher. They(Ubi) bought the rights to make Farcry2.


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## WaroDaBeast (Jan 16, 2012)

Gzero said:


> Good luck with that, even the almighty Steam can't make games available to everyone, even if it was for short period it is still a huge hit on release day sales which as I'm sure everyone here knows is the most important point for games (usually used to determine what to do with the IP and game).



Well, digital distribution platforms are certainly not the panacea if game makers don't want their games on said platforms. Oh well, more money to the ones who do make their games available on those, huh?





NdMk2o1o said:


> First part of the post fine, 2nd part pure and utter tripe, please go and rant over at GN if you really feel the need to give a history lesson. Oh and FYI it's not the first time the french have conceeded to the Germans, they have done it again and are now Germany's hand puppet in the sinking ship that is the EU, oh and didn't their credit rating also just get downgraded?



Oh, so it's not fine to give a history lesson, but a lesson about economy is. I'd appreciate it if you could give me more pointers as to what is fine and what isn't, mister. 

---



Spoiler






entropy13 said:


> Very OT post.
> 
> Good thing there are spoiler tags.
> 
> ...



The Normans were in France since the early 900's. People who go and settle in another country and mingle with the rest of the population become part of that population. This is what has happened in virtually every country in the world, you know... Otherwise, I might argue that no one but Native Americans in good ol' USA are Americans, since everybody else came from other countries.

If you know your history, you'll know why England never became French. Not the whole population was French, just the King. Arguing the opposite would mean the various nations in Europe switched nationalities everytime a foreign sovereign came to power. You know, when all the sovereigns were marrying one another, during Napoleon's time.



entropy13 said:


> It's still kind of hazy there though, considering the "Franks" are still not that "distinct" so to speak, to the other Germanic tribes around that time. It's only when his sons "went their own ways" when "distinctions" started to arise.



Not sure what you mean. The Franks started invading Roman Gaul during the 5th century, and took over in late 6th century. Those were the Merovingians, which was the dynasty _before_ the Carolingians. So, really... I have no idea what you mean by distinctions.



entropy13 said:


> Well, the UK "lost" their colonies in the 20th Century relatively peacefully at least, likewise for the Netherlands. France lost Indochina in dramatic fashion however, wasting the only consistently excellent armed force they ever had (FFL) with useless commanders on the upper echelons of command. Then there's Algeria...



I was merely saying that the French have had empires too, so you can't say they're just a bunch of surrenderers. The fact that they didn't know how to let go of their former colonies, however idiotic, is an entirely different story.



entropy13 said:


> It's more out of "the enemy of my enemy is my (temporary) friend" rather than any benevolent actions by France though. Considering the monarchy's approaching its death throes then. Afterwards there was the "Quasi War" between the two (although admittedly it's the French republic already)...



I guess that's why Lafayette is very popular on the other side of the Atlantic ocean... Right? Nah, I think people just plain don't care about history. I see that everyday with the students at school — they don't care about history, nor can they speak their native tongue that they supposedly care more about than French.



entropy13 said:


> That didn't happen. You're saying the likes of Eisenhower and Montgomery would lie to their own men when LeClerc and the 2nd Armored Division are with them? You're criticizing "oversimplification" by oversimplifying?



You're right. I can't prove this. But you can't prove the opposite, can you?



entropy13 said:


> Although admittedly, the French are still stupid and did surrender, especially with the establishment of Vichy France. The Netherlands and Belgium and Poland and Denmark and Norway didn't surrender, they got occupied. They still had their government-in-exile (and monarchy-in-exile when applicable). But in the case of the French, they surrendered.



Now, you're arguing semantics. 



entropy13 said:


> The French Resistance doesn't get really talked much, admittedly. Because France were sharply divided then, the Free French on one side and Vichy France in the other. So much for their "brotherhood" eh? The French can't even decide as one whole nation which side they are on.



Hah. Strange that you don't mention Belgium when it comes to division now. Belgian political crisis anyone? Nah, it's probably just France being the only country in the world that's got problems — you keep wearing those blinkers.



entropy13 said:


> So why the f**k was that midget elected then? By "divine right of kings" and not by elections?
> 
> Well, I guess he won't be re-elected then though. But then again if the ultranationalists win...woe betide to France, and the EU too.



Yeah, man, judge a person's ability to govern a country by their height; it's the only parameter that counts, after all.  (Not saying he's a good president, just that the way you judge a sovereign isn't exactly the best.) Anyway, it's very simple to understand. The dude won 'cause the left-winged parties in France can't even agree on whether they need to take a piss or not first thing after getting up in the morning. Besides, I don't think you should trust the polls, as they're almost always way off. We all saw that in '02.

So yeah... Basically, the French suck and if they don't, they're not French. Nice try, but not nice enough.


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## Gzero (Jan 16, 2012)

Sort of related: http://www.guru3d.com/news/mass-effect-3-pc-will-require-origin/

They think they got away with it in bf3?


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## WaroDaBeast (Jan 16, 2012)

Gzero said:


> Sort of related: http://www.guru3d.com/news/mass-effect-3-pc-will-require-origin/
> 
> They think they got away with it in bf3?



Well... It's EA we're talking about here, so conflicts of interests are bound to happen, I suppose. Can't imagine how it is to have three, four platforms like that on your computer just to get rid of that issue...


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 16, 2012)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Ubisoft's Horrible DRM
> 
> 
> 
> ...




stale old news days late qubit


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## qubit (Jan 16, 2012)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> stale old news days late qubit



Yeah, thanks for your 'constructive' comment.  So you think because you posted about it (your link is broken by the way, maybe get that fixed ) a little before in the forum it can't be a news article?

It's not "days old", anyway (well not when I posted the news story).


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 16, 2012)

qubit said:


> Yeah, thanks for your 'constructive' comment.  So you think because you posted about it (your link is broken by the way, maybe get that fixed ) a little before in the forum it can't be a news article?
> 
> It's not "days old", anyway (well not when I posted the news story).



ill try and make it a bit more constructive next time, im no hater no sweat, but i read that on guru on friday and the links broke cos its old simples

and yeh its fine as news as some might not have seen it yet but 3 days later makes it a repeat for a lot of us hence my point, next day yeh fine that day great , 3 days later bit late imho 

OT Ubisoft Are on Crack simples , theyll get none of my money on any format ever again, and they may not be the only ones,

 im starting to think EA have done something similar on the sly as crysis 2 seems to want to reactivate with the slightest oc tweek, ive had to go through ea support a few times now to get it back activated . only to start it again last night (after mem oc) and the shit wants activateing again upon which it tells me activations exceeded. 

ive had enough of drm, all games on my pc are getting cracked now, just so i can play MY ORIGINALs when i sodding want ,pathetic its easyier by a country mile to get install and play a copy then it is to play my allready installed game that ive owned a while.


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## bogie (Jan 16, 2012)

UBISofts games are on my ban list. Won't ever buy any of them. Crappy software developer anyway! F U UBI. :shadedshu


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## newtekie1 (Jan 16, 2012)

Quibit, you might want to update the news post.  Guru3D was contacted by support over the weekend and their key was unlocked so he could do the benchmark article.

So there you have it, benchmarkers wanting to use the game need simply contact the proper tech support people and have the key unlocked.

And normal people will need to contact tech support if they update hardware 3 times.

99% of users will never be effected, and those that are are taken care of.


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## qubit (Jan 16, 2012)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> ill try and make it a bit more constructive next time, im no hater no sweat, but i read that on guru on friday and the links broke cos its old simples
> 
> and yeh its fine as news as some might not have seen it yet but 3 days later makes it a repeat for a lot of us hence my point, next day yeh fine that day great , 3 days later bit late imho
> 
> ...



Hey, no problem, we're good. Thankyou, I really appreciate it. 

But I don't understand why you think it's three days old there, buddy?  I wonder if it's a timezone effect? Look, the article on Guru3D is dated the 14th and so is mine, going by the timezone on the TPU server (GMT-6 ie it changes date 6 hours after GMT).

+1, I couldn't agree more with boycotting Ubisoft and I'm not surprised that EA are pulling a similar stunt, too. And hey, you know what, I've got so many games on my Steam account, all with Steam-only DRM, that it's real easy for me to avoid buying the ones with this garbage on. Heck, if the biggest games seller of all, Activision, doesn't infest their Call of Duty games with anything more than Steam DRM, then it's yet another proof that this activation BS is not needed.

Everyone: please _do not_ let this get into a CoD vs whatever bashing thread. I'm just talking DRM here.



newtekie1 said:


> Quibit, you might want to update the news post.  Guru3D was contacted by support over the weekend and their key was unlocked so he could do the benchmark article.
> 
> So there you have it, benchmarkers wanting to use the game need simply contact the proper tech support people and have the key unlocked.
> 
> ...



Thanks, I saw that, one update coming up in a bit.  I think that Hilbert could have given a little more detail in his update though, such as has the three machine limit been lifted, is this a one-off "favour" etc. I have a feeling we're gonna see something more from Guru3D on this though...

Well, I see that you're ok with it and it boils down to what you're willing to put up with, so it's not a black and white situation. Personally, I don't think it's reasonable to make people jump through these bureaucratic hoops, waste time and get frustrated just to play their games and is enough to make me boycott the product. This stuff should be should be reserved for the proper context, such as applying for driving licences, government benefits etc, you get the picture.  It's quite ironic that when trying to relax and de-stress with a game, one gets stressed out over something like this!


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## newtekie1 (Jan 17, 2012)

qubit said:


> Well, I see that you're ok with it and it boils down to what you're willing to put up with, so it's not a black and white situation. Personally, I don't think it's reasonable to make people jump through these bureaucratic hoops, waste time and get frustrated just to play their games and is enough to make me boycott the product. This stuff should be should be reserved for the proper context, such as applying for driving licences, government benefits etc, you get the picture. It's quite ironic that when trying to relax and de-stress with a game, one gets stressed out over something like this!



It boils down to how it is handled, and in this case it seems it is handled properly.  If there was no support and no way for the user to get a solution when they hit the 3 activation limit, then I would have a problem with it.  And as it is, 99% of people playing the game will never be affected by it(especially if it is true that the activations are reset after 30 days).  To boycott over DRM like this is making a mountain out of a mole hill.


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## xenocide (Jan 17, 2012)

I think assuming it only applies if they change hardware 3 times is a bit short sighted.  What about someone who has a laptop and wants to install it on that?  Or multiple computers that they play on?  I know a lot of people that have multiple computers because they play with their wives\gf's\friends and they like to have Steam on them all with all the games installed so they can play on any of them.  Hardware limiting is a poor and cumbersome way to penalize legitimate customers.  What do they gain by doing this, really?


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## Easy Rhino (Jan 17, 2012)

oh hey look, another thread where people bitch and complain.


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## ViperXTR (Jan 17, 2012)

Rayman, FarCry 1, Sands of Time, Warrior Within, Two Thrones (Starforce) good tiemz


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## ET3D (Jan 17, 2012)

> Game developers would be better off just making their titles worth buying



It's not the developers who demand the DRM, it's the publishers. It's unfortunate that people don't make this distinction.

Regarding the DRM, Ubisoft should take a clue from Microsoft. Just changing a single piece of hardware shouldn't cause a license problem. I changed graphics cards twice and the CPU and Vista didn't even blink. I once changed MB+CPU+graphics on XP and had to call Microsoft, but that was sorted out without a problem. People should be allowed to change any number of graphics cards without this requiring a new activation.

This DRM is basically equivalent to renting the game. You know that at some point in the future you will no longer be able to play it. Many gamers upgrade often, and for them that time will come sooner. At least provide a way to deactivate, like Mass Effect did. Not perfect, either, but I can accept it better.


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## qubit (Jan 17, 2012)

ET3D said:


> *It's not the developers who demand the DRM, it's the publishers. It's unfortunate that people don't make this distinction.*
> 
> Regarding the DRM, Ubisoft should take a clue from Microsoft. Just changing a single piece of hardware shouldn't cause a license problem. I changed graphics cards twice and the CPU and Vista didn't even blink. I once changed MB+CPU+graphics on XP and had to call Microsoft, but that was sorted out without a problem. People should be allowed to change any number of graphics cards without this requiring a new activation.
> 
> This DRM is basically equivalent to renting the game. You know that at some point in the future you will no longer be able to play it. Many gamers upgrade often, and for them that time will come sooner. At least provide a way to deactivate, like Mass Effect did. Not perfect, either, but I can accept it better.


I agree with your post - Ubisoft should be reasonable the way Microsoft are and there would be no problem. I myself have activated Windows many times over the phone just fine. 

However, for your first line, really it doesn't matter who demands it, the end result is that the customer is stuck with DRM, so the distinction isn't all that important. I wouldn't buy products with such DRM, regardless of whether it was the publisher or the developer that demanded it.


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## xenocide (Jan 18, 2012)

I acknowledge the problem is with the Publishers, but Developers need to start throwing their weight around, and stop allowing Publishers to completely control them.


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## ET3D (Jan 19, 2012)

I think publishers usually have the developers by the balls, unfortunately. I agree that in terms of boycotting a DRM it doesn't matter if it's the publisher or developer who wanted that DRM, but it's still better to put the blame where it should go.


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## DannibusX (Jan 19, 2012)

Most developers that I can think of really can't throw their weight around, after all they're wholly owned subsidiaries of the publisher, or the publisher is funding their entire project.


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