# Need Help. confused +12v and -12v



## jigujigu (May 21, 2008)

I Have problem with my New Computer..

*This is my spesification :*
Intel Q6600 (G0)
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L
Gecube HD 2600 XT - DDR4 256
Adata Extrem 800+ (2 x 2GB0 = 4 GB
WDC 500G Sata
Flopply Disk
Thermaltake CPU Cooler
DVD-RW
FPS Blue Stroom 500Watt
(alll part is new component)

I am setup the computer by default (not overclock).

I currently using : window XP-sp2, Motherboad drivers and VGA ATI latest driver. and none other program installed, except the testing tools.

The problem is computer hang (need press Restart button).. some time when i playing a game. (some time once in 1 hour, or 3 hour, some time not hang).

i trying to ask some ppl and they give me some tools. 
Prime Strees 2004, OCCT 2.0.0a, Motherboard Monitor 5.3.7.0, Fanspeed 343 and Video Card Stability Test.

prime strees (1 hour) give me  0 errors, 0 warnings for all core (4 core).
Video Card Stability Test (3 hour) .. running well
OCCT (1 hour)... give me stablie status.

I look at +12v and 5v (at OCCT) i see +12.2, and +5v 

*but* 

when i test using Motherboard monitor and Fanspeed,  i get info :
+12v = 3v - 7.5v
-12v = -16.8v  
-5V = -8.5 -5.25

*The Question is : *
1. is my power 500watt good enough for my computer system ?
2. is any problem with my FSP 500watt ??

Thank's and sorry if my english is not good. 
Jigu


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## Mussels (May 21, 2008)

FSP are good PSU's.

Software readings for PSU's are useless. Unless you test it yourself with a multimeter, you will have no idea what the voltages really are.

My guess would be the ram - you need to run memtest to test that (its not a windows program, its a bootable CD) - a very common thing is that you need to turn the RAM voltage up in the BIOS, even when not overclocking. Just take it up 1-2 notches above minimum, and it should be good.


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## jigujigu (May 21, 2008)

Mussels said:


> a very common thing is that you need to turn the RAM voltage up in the BIOS, even when not overclocking. Just take it up 1-2 notches above minimum, and it should be good.



sorry i don't undestant, my english not good... can you explain me with detail and easy language... 

what i should do in BIOS setup ??? 
what meaning 1-2 notches ??? do you mean incress the memory voltage ??

Ok.. this is my MainMenu Bios
1. Standart CMOS features
2. Advanced BIOS
3. Integrated Peripherals
4. Power Management Setup
5. PnP/PCI Configurations
7. PC Healty Status
8. MB Intelligent Tweaker (MIT).
9. Load Fail-Saft Deafult.
10, Load Optimized Defaults
11,12 set pasword
13, Save & Exit
14. Exit Without Saving

*I see in PC Healts Status menu*
Vcore = OK
DDR18V = OK
+3.3V = OK
+12V = )K
Current System Temperatur  : 47c
Current CPU Temperratur  : 47c

*I see in 8. MB Intelligent Tweaker (MIT).*
Robust Graphics Boster________= [AUTO]
CPU Clock Ratio_____________=  [18x]
CPU Host Clock Control_______= [Disable]
CPU Host Frequency (Mhz)____= 200  
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz)__= [AUTO]
C.I.A.2_____________________= [Disable]
Performance Echange________= [TURBO]
System memory Multipier (SPD)__= AUTO
Memory Frequency (Mhz) 800___= 800

****** System Voltage Optimized *******
System Voltage Control________= [Manual]
DDR2 OverVoltage Control_______= [Normal]
PCI-E OverVoltage Control_______= [Normal]
FSB OverVoltage Control________= [Normal]
(G)MCH OverVoltage Control_____= [Normal]
CPU Volate Control_____________= [Normal]
Normal CPU Vcore______________= 1.38750v

which one i must change..???

thank's very much.
Jigu


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## PuMA (May 21, 2008)

yes he ment increasing memory voltage by 0.1-0.2 V. U could allso click on reset to factory defaults  or safe settings option in BIOS.


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## jigujigu (May 21, 2008)

PuMA said:


> yes he ment increasing memory voltage by 0.1-0.2 V. U could allso click on reset to factory defaults  or safe settings option in BIOS.



do you mean this menu :
DDR2 OverVoltage Control_______= [Normal]
  >> Normal_______: Supplies the memory voltage as required (Default)
  >> +0.1v - +0.7v : Increase memory voltage by 0.1v to 0.7v at 0.1v increment..

Can you anwser my 1st question ???
  "1. is my power 500watt good enough for my computer system ?"

or should i buy 600 watt ??? i never upgrade to Cross Fire,. i mean, i just enough use 1 VGA Card.

Thank's very much


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## Temps_Riising (May 21, 2008)

Yep, def a memory voltage thing I would think, quite often the default BIOS setting for the memory is lower than the manufactuers spec, check that out at your memory manufacturers site and then manually input the correct voltage in BIOS where you indicated on previous post.

Ohhh and yes....500w should be fine on that decent quality PSU no problems.


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## Mussels (May 21, 2008)

yes by two notches i mean raise the Dram voltage by 0.2 - i wasnt more specific, as i didnt know how it would be written in your BIOS.

Just raise that, and see if it makes it any better.


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## jigujigu (May 21, 2008)

Temps_Riising said:


> Yep, def a memory voltage thing I would think, quite often the default BIOS setting for the memory is lower than the manufactuers spec, check that out at your memory manufacturers site and then manually input the correct voltage in BIOS where you indicated on previous post. .



Here is my Adata Part Number : AD2800E002GMU
and this address : http://oc.adata.com.tw/1_product_detail.asp?pid=AD2800EU-Duo

Part number_____Model Name_____Speed_____Size______Latency_________Voltage
AD2800E002GMU_DDR2-800+ 4GB__PC2-6400__2GBx2_____CL4-4-4-12_____	1.9v-2.1v



> A-DATA Technology Co., Ltd., the global leader in memory products, has released new Vitesta plus series, high capacity DDR2-800+ 4GB dual channel kit, especially designed for highly memory demanded enthusiast. With the launch of numerous platforms using Intel Core 2 Duo and Extreme CPUs with Intel 965/975X Express chipsets and AMD Athlon 64 Family CPUs with Socket AM2 platforms, DDR2 800 has become the mainstream memory module solution. Vitesta DDR2 800+ 4GB memory modules provide excellent stability as well as compatibility for dual channel configurations.
> 
> Based on A-DATA's strict quality control and testing, Vitesta DDR-800+ 4GB dual channel kit has been verified to operate at latencies of 5-5-5-12 2T at 1.8v by using top brand 128M x8 FBGA (Fine-Pitch Ball Grid Array) chips.
> 
> ...



So,.. Should i Set voltage to 1.8v, 1.9v, 2.0v or 2.1v.. how i know, which one is stabiles ?

and how about latencies ... should i set latencies to 5-5-5-12 or CL4-4-4-12 

thank's and sorry i am too newbie...
Jigu


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## Mussels (May 21, 2008)

you should be 5-5-5-15, as thats what the ram is supposed to use. the EPP settings are for EPP motherboards, which you probably dont have.

Set the ram to 2.0V - That info says your ram should use 1.8V, but its possible they need a little more - its VERY common these days with 4GB of ram, to need slightly higher voltage.


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## Temps_Riising (May 21, 2008)

Mussels said:


> you should be 5-5-5-15, as thats what the ram is supposed to use. the EPP settings are for EPP motherboards, which you probably dont have.
> 
> Set the ram to 2.0V - That info says your ram should use 1.8V, but its possible they need a little more - its VERY common these days with 4GB of ram, to need slightly higher voltage.



Yep to that!


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## jigujigu (May 21, 2008)

Ok.. now, what the best program for test the memory ???..
should i donwload memtest?

how long for ideal test, i must running that testing program ??

Thank's
Jigu


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## jigujigu (May 22, 2008)

Mussels said:


> you should be 5-5-5-15, as thats what the ram is supposed to use.
> 
> Set the ram to 2.0V - That info says your ram should use 1.8V, but its possible they need a little more - its VERY common these days with 4GB of ram, to need slightly higher voltage.



i don't know where to set latency... i can't found at menu.

i only incress the memory volatage to +0.2, but i don't know if already 2.0v.
where i can see if my memory volatage alaredy set to 2.0v ???

thank's
Jigu


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## Mussels (May 22, 2008)

stock voltage is 1.8v
 1.8 + 0.2 = 2.0


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## Mussels (May 22, 2008)

the memory settings you call latencies are also known as timings - most often they are hidden until you enable them - for example 

Memory timings: auto (you cant see them) but as soon as you change it to manual, the other settings appear. On most motherboards it is either under "advanced chipset settings" or if the BIOS has one, it may be in the overclocking section (various brands call it different things, as i do not have a gigabyte board i do not know what it is called)


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## jigujigu (May 22, 2008)

Mussels said:


> the memory settings you call latencies are also known as timings - most often they are hidden until you enable them - for example
> 
> Memory timings: auto (you cant see them) but as soon as you change it to manual, the other settings appear. On most motherboards it is either under "advanced chipset settings" or if the BIOS has one, it may be in the overclocking section (various brands call it different things, as i do not have a gigabyte board i do not know what it is called)



ok.. i Found it,.. i Must Press CTRL+F1, at BIOS menu,. so i can set latency manualy..

Now, i Testing for 3 hour using OCCT..(any other program better from this one ??) and see what the result.

thank's
Jigu


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## farlex85 (May 22, 2008)

In the main screen of your bios, press ctrl + F1. That should unlock all the memory options, one of which will be to put the memory timings at auto or manual. That list you listed above will give you the speed of the ram, the timing menus will show up after pressing ctrl + F1 (under MIB).


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## Namslas90 (May 22, 2008)

In your BIOS settings under the MIT section you should find the following sections;
(Check the Motherboard Manual)

System Memory Multiplier (SPD)
Allows you to set the system memory multiplier. Options are dependent on CPU FSB. Auto setsmemory multiplier according to memory SPD data. (Default: Auto)

Memory Frequency (Mhz)
The first memory frequency value is the normal operating frequency of the memory being used; the second is the memory frequency that is automatically adjusted according to the CPU Host

Frequency (Mhz) and System Memory Multiplier settings.

High Speed DRAM DLL Settings
Provides two different memory timing configurations. If your system becomes unstable after you overclock the DDR2 memory, select Option 1 or Option 2 to help make your system more
stable.
Option 1 Memory Timing Configuration 1. (Default)
Option 2 Memory Timing Configuration 2.

DDR2 OverVoltage Control
Allows you to set memory voltage.
Normal Supplies the memory voltage as required. (Default)
+0.1V ~ +0.7V Increases memory voltage by 0.1V to 0.7V at 0.1V
Note: Increasing memory voltage may result in damage to the memory.

That should get you started -


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## Mussels (May 22, 2008)

OCCT is a good program.

Earlier you said you were having problems with games, i suggest playing one and seeing if the problem is still there.


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## jigujigu (May 22, 2008)

Mussels said:


> Earlier you said you were having problems with games, i suggest playing one and seeing if the problem is still there.



Yess. (all game i have), make my computer hang. if i play the game 3-4 hour..., 
can i just use "Video Card Stability Test" for testing.. coz playing game 3-4 hour make my eyes tier.

FSP distributor already change my PSU with a new one.. 

Thank's
Jigu


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## farlex85 (May 22, 2008)

The best video card stability test is your most demanding game. Do you have rivatuner or any other program that tells you your gpu temps? If so, what do they get at after a few minutes of gaming? Also how hot is your processor getting under load? If its showing 47C for CPU temp in the BIOS, you are likely overheating it. Download core temp in the downloads section here at tpu to check while running OCCT, and most likely you will need to reseat your heatsink.


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## Mussels (May 22, 2008)

well if the video card test you speak of never crashed it to begin with, theres no use trying it now.

You need to repeat what made it crash earlier - games.

Every time you change something, you need to repeat the same test over and over again, to see if the problem has gone. If it takes 4 hours... well try and find a game that can play by itself (For example, sometimes i save a replay of supreme commander and a 4 hour match i play, and just replay that. it stresses the PC, without me needing to do anything)


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## jigujigu (May 22, 2008)

My 1st testing after i incress the memory voltage +0.2 .and. set latency to 5-5-5-12

OCCT give me status : TOO HOT 




this is the report
CPU-1__________________CPU-2__________________CPU-3__________________CPU-4


___

___

___



Vcore__________________3v_____________________5v______________________12v


___

___

___



any comment for the graph ??.. is 68 too hot ???


thank's


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## farlex85 (May 22, 2008)

Download this and this. The first will show you the temps of your cores on your cpu, the second will show you the temps of your gphx card, and allow you to oc it and turn the fan up. I suggest you check your temps w/ the program, then reseat the heatsink on the processor, make sure all pins are firmly and completely in. Re-apply thermal paste as well if you have some. Then turn up the fan speed on riva, and you should be good.

Oh and since this is probably overheating causing the problem, set everything to stock in your BIOS and get your temps under control first. Get that worked out, and then you can mess w/ your timings. Too many issues at once makes it too hard to troubleshoot though.


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## jigujigu (May 22, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> Oh and since this is probably overheating causing the problem, set everything to stock in your BIOS and get your temps under control first.



sorry i don't undestant,...do you mean i must Load Optimized Default's at BIOS ???
and test again ??

by the way, how too use RivaTuner to see VGA temperatur.. i can't find it..

thank's
Jigu


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## farlex85 (May 22, 2008)

That is a frighteningly hot cpu temp though, and is definately your problem. Like I said, remove the heatsink, then put it on again, making sure all the pins are all the way in. If you lift up, there should be no give. They are tricky, you are using the stock intel heatsink I presume correct?


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## jigujigu (May 22, 2008)

OOOHHH
the shop where i buy this computer, they forget about Thermaltake CPU Cooler. 
they put standart cpu cooler (from Intel). 

is standart cooler from intel not good enough for intel product (Q6600) ???
can you recommendation what branch and series the good cooler for 25$ (below,.. i am running out of my buget    )

i am using mini tower casing. only have 2 air cooler casing 80mm. (1 unit is zalman product)

thank's


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## Mussels (May 22, 2008)

raising the memory voltage wont cause anything to overheat - if something was overheating, its due to something else.

Please use realtemp and say what your idle and load temperatures are for your CPU.

edit: posts where made while i typed this one.


Intels cooler would be enough, but if they messed up the application of grease (Intel coolers are meant to be installed only once, or you have to replace it) it would explain the problems.

Thermaltake to not make the best CPU coolers, i would avoid them. The current favourites for Q6600 cooling are

* Arctic cooling  Freezer 7 pro
*Xigmatek (any model, they are all excellent coolers at great prices)
*Thermalright (anything 92mm or 120mm)
* Scythe ninja/Mini ninja - great coolers, but not cheap

(these are the ones i reccomend as an owner of two Q6600's, i have seen many otherwise good coolers, that only gave good temps on two of a Q6600's four cores - not all coolers work well on intels quad core CPU's)

Another edit: i saw that you mention a mini case. That could also be a reason behind the heating. Please look at the Scythe mini ninja or Zalman coolers - they arent the most cost effective, but they both have models that are small enough to fit in small cases.


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## jigujigu (May 22, 2008)

I am not overclocker..and use computer for daily game and work.

is  Cooler Master Vortex 752 CPU Cooler enough for me.. cost only $22
see this review..

Arctic cooling Freezer 7 pro .. cost $32 
i am worry about the size,... doesn't it too big for my case (PowerLogic Futura 330).size : 450(H) x 235(W) x 490(D) mm

btw, my motherboad position is vertical, doesn't it too heavy (520 g) ???

thank's
Jigu


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## farlex85 (May 22, 2008)

I wouldn't be worried about case size too much, and you can get any aftermarket cooler you want imo, just get some good thermal grease (as5 or mx2) and apply it properly. The stock heatsink is not great for cooling, but there is no way you should be getting temps like that. I really would try to fix that immidiately. Here are instructions for applying the thermal grease. You can use isopropyl alcohol w/ a q-tip to remove the old thermal grease (make sure you remove all of it). And again, make sure all the pins are firmly in, I imagine that is why its messed up now, they are difficult sometimes. If you lift and it gives way somewhere, its a problem. When its snug, you'll know.


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## jigujigu (May 23, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> IThe stock heatsink is not great for cooling, but there is no way you should be getting temps like that. I really would try to fix that immidiately.



i alread fix the heatsink,. and test again.. the result is still CPU TOO HOT, and give me same temperatur graph... 68 Celcius. 

i need more info .. actualy how Celcius the standart CPU temperatur with standart heatsink ???

right now i am ordering Freeze 7 Pro,

thank's
Jigu


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## farlex85 (May 23, 2008)

Well the cpu temp is not as important as the core temps, which tend to be higher than the cpu temp. That program realtemp I gave you a link to will give you your core temps, and thats really what we need. I'm guessing if your cpu temp is getting up to 70, your cores are probably getting up to 90 or so, and your cores you don't want higher than 70, and if they get above 80 they start slowing down to prevent damage.


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## Mussels (May 23, 2008)

using realtemp you want the temps to be below 70c at load.


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## jigujigu (May 23, 2008)

The shop only have CoolerMaster Hyper 212 in stock. need 1 week for order Freezer Pro 7. 

So i decide to buy coolermaster $29, (   out of my budget    )

*this is the report*
CPU-1__________________CPU-2__________________CPU-3__________________CPU-4



___

___

___



the result of vcore,3v,5v and 12v give me same result (see my last graph post).

*this is result OCCT & RealTemp.* (i only have 3 minutes before the shop close, i leave my computer, they will testing againg tomorror).
Before Start (Idle)________Running (3 minitue)


___



*this is result VGA Tester and ATI Catalyst Status*
Before Start (idle)________Running (3 minitue)


___



tomorror, i wil post a new graph here.
right now, i need more info :
1. is this good cooler ??
2. is temp. my cpu more cool down ?? 
3. is my VGA card working good ?

thank's very much
Jigu


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## farlex85 (May 23, 2008)

Thats solid core temps there. As long as your cores stay under 70, you should be fine. Ideally, w/o any oc, you'll want them to stay under 60C. So yeah, those temps look good. Have you tried playing games? Does it still lag?


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## jigujigu (May 23, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> Have you tried playing games? Does it still lag?


Not yet.. The computer still in shop, they will test again tomorrow...

can i detect memory temperatur ... ???, 
should i test the memory too ?? (what program for test the memory except the memtest) ???

the new problem come,.. the fan not fix for casing.. too high.. , the case can't close 

thank's
Jigu


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## farlex85 (May 23, 2008)

Memtest86. Oh wait, why don't you wanna use memtest? Aw that sucks about the fan. The artic cooler 7 might be smaller. As I said though, the stock heatsink should be ok if your not ocing. You just have to replace the thermal paste and make sure it is firmly attached.


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## MKmods (May 23, 2008)

jigujigu, can you post a picture of the side of your case showing the inside of it?


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## jigujigu (May 24, 2008)

MKmods said:


> jigujigu, can you post a picture of the side of your case showing the inside of it?



The shop only work half day today, and i to late. the shop already close. 

this one is good...http://mkmods.com/images/Picture_117.jpg

i wanna make, but don't know where to start, what tools i need. 

thank's
Jigu


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## jigujigu (Jun 21, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> Memtest86. Oh wait, why don't you wanna use memtest? Aw that sucks about the fan. The artic cooler 7 might be smaller. As I said though, the stock heatsink should be ok if your not ocing. You just have to replace the thermal paste and make sure it is firmly attached.



Oooohhh... i Need help again now..
i Sold the CoolerMaster Hyper 212 coz not fix to my case. 
now i buy sycthe shurreken (I can't find artic cooler 7)

but now the result of temperatur is higher more than CoolerMaster Hyper 212 

*this is the report*
CPU-1__________________CPU-2__________________CPU-3__________________CPU-4



___

___

___





it's ok or not ok ?, 
should i use ZM STG1 Super Thermal Grease ??? 

thank's


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## farlex85 (Jun 21, 2008)

That seems relatively ok, core 1 seems to perhaps not be getting enough thermal paste contact. Did you just replace it? And what thermal grease did you use? It needs to settle a bit before your temps drop too much.


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## Mussels (Jun 21, 2008)

zalmans thermal grease isnt that great, you should get arctic silver 5, A S ceramique, or arctic cooling's MX2 paste (despite the similar names, the last one is a different brand)


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