# Phenom II vs Core i7



## Monkey_Business (Apr 6, 2010)

I heard that the Phenom II X4 965 at any clock speed, is only 1/3 as fast as the Core i7.

The Ci7 is so fast, it will shave Tens of seconds off of loading times in all games, as well as give a boost Tens of FPS compared to the Phenom II. The Ci7 is a bit pricey though....

Is it really worth it to pay a few more Hundred dollars for a Core i7 as opposed to a top-notch AMD computer?


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## johnnyfiive (Apr 6, 2010)

This topic literally, has been beat to death. If your search you can find tons of threads relating to the same topic you made.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=113342&highlight=phenom+i7
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=104798&highlight=phenom+i7
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=104798&highlight=phenom+i7
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=91818&highlight=phenom+i7


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## crazyeyesreaper (Apr 6, 2010)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2832/9

thats a gpu limited senario

but all cpus from $190 - $1000 gave the same results\

and as posted above its been beaten like a dead horse

in a single gpu setup Phenom II Core2 CoreI7 they all provide the same basic performance

i7 wins in multi gpu senarios but usually core2duo/quad and phenom II also provide acceptable performance ie you wont notice the difference gaming unless you play with fraps on 24/7

http://hwt.dk/literaturedetails.aspx?LiteratureID=12792

pay attention to minimum frame rates

http://anandtech.com/show/2715/3

same applies pay attention minimum frame rate when possible stock clock phenom II 940 vs i7 920 minimum frame rate is usually similar etc avg and max are nice but the minimum frame rate is what matters as if it drops to low it gives that chugging hitching obviously not smooth feeling


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## DonInKansas (Apr 6, 2010)

The best answer:  it depends.  But on beating the dead horse......


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## Monkey_Business (Apr 6, 2010)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> http://www.anandtech.com/show/2832/9
> 
> thats a gpu limited senario
> 
> ...



What about load times?


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## human_error (Apr 6, 2010)

Monkey_Business said:


> What about load times?



Unless you have a RAID array with SSDs they won't vary by anything significant as the slowest part of loading games is due to hard drive speeds.


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## Monkey_Business (Apr 6, 2010)

human_error said:


> Unless you have a RAID array with SSDs they won't vary by anything significant as the slowest part of loading games is due to hard drive speeds.



How many SSD's is it physically and electronically possible to fit in RAID?


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## human_error (Apr 6, 2010)

Monkey_Business said:


> How many SSD's is it physically and electronically possible to fit in RAID?



As many as the RAID controller can handle - i can put 6 on my intel southbridge, but that would cost an absolute fortune and isn't the best raid solution there is. PCI-E RAID cards may be able to handle more, but to be honest 6 SSDs would cost an absolute fortune and you wouldn't ask what cpu to buy - you'd just get the $1000 6 core i7.


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## Monkey_Business (Apr 6, 2010)

So the true gaming power of the Core i7 isn't noticeable unless you're using more than One GPU?

I would imagine that's because it is hard to bottleneck the Core i7.


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## nt300 (Apr 6, 2010)

GPUs don't get bottleneck anymore from CPUs. Either PII or i7 will do a great job for gaming. PII overall costs much cheaper. You can get PII, mobo and good ram for the price of one i7 CPU


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## erocker (Apr 6, 2010)

Have you bothered to look at reviews? Google: "Phenom II vs. Core i7" and you will find hundreds of reviews.


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## Yukikaze (Apr 6, 2010)

Monkey_Business said:


> I heard that the Phenom II X4 965 at any clock speed, is only 1/3 as fast as the Core i7.
> 
> The Ci7 is so fast, it will shave Tens of seconds off of loading times in all games, as well as give a boost Tens of FPS compared to the Phenom II. The Ci7 is a bit pricey though....
> 
> Is it really worth it to pay a few more Hundred dollars for a Core i7 as opposed to a top-notch AMD computer?



First of all, in gaming, the difference isn't large between an AMD CPU and an i7 - After all, the GPU is far more important. Second, the price difference isn't a few hundred dollars, either.


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## mdsx1950 (Apr 6, 2010)

Phenom II X4s are pretty equal to i7s. Just that the i7 owns AMD in video encoding and other processor based work because of hyperthreading. You wont see a big difference in games. Maybe a few fps. But thats about it. But its never a bad thing to own an i7  Its worth every cent in my opinion.


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## n-ster (Apr 6, 2010)

if you live near a Microcenter, then i7 is still a great way to go IMO, but if you don't live near one, and you don't live near fry's either, your best best is a Phenom II 955 (since you seem to not want to OC much / at all), and a not so expensive board and a 5850/5870, and 4gb of average to good cheapish RAM, another TX 750 (unless you are dumping/selling your old build and you can reuse yours)


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## afw (Apr 6, 2010)

Off topic ... 

You could have asked these questions (PHII Vs i7 and raid)  on the previous thread that you created regarding a system build ... http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=119289 ... :shadedshu

and BTW have you made your decision on the stuff you're gonna purchase ...  

or are you going to keep on researching until the next gen stuff arrive and you'll start all over again ....  .. just kidding ...


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## Monkey_Business (Apr 7, 2010)

afw said:


> Off topic ...
> 
> You could have asked these questions (PHII Vs i7 and raid)  on the previous thread that you created regarding a system build ... http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=119289 ... :shadedshu
> 
> ...



So the true gaming potential of a Core i7 isn't noticeable unless you're running more than a single GPU? I would imagine that's because it is very difficult to bottleneck the Core i7 with graphics cards.


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## erocker (Apr 7, 2010)

Monkey_Business said:


> So the true gaming potential of a Core i7 isn't noticeable unless you're running more than a single GPU? I would imagine that's because it is very difficult to bottleneck the Core i7 with graphics cards.



No. As far as plain ol' gaming with something like CrossFire, a more expensive (microcenter and fry's aside as not everyone lives by one) processor like an i7 is a waste. Look at dual cores.


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## alexsubri (Apr 8, 2010)

AMD = More of budget, everyday user type and gaming rig - some cases beats Intel in gaming
Intel = More of multi tasker , better for encoding/producing videos/music, plays games similar to AMD

So if you have $1,000 buy the new intel or if your only purpose is to surf the web and play games like me, stick with AMD

Or 

Wait till AMD releases their new one similar to intel sometime this year


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## dark2099 (Apr 8, 2010)

I remember in some comparison, a 965 did compete nicely with a i7 920, or beat it, as people have said.  Here's my take on the whole situation after that review, dollar for dollar, AMD and Intel probably perform similarly, but as comparing performance, AMD top of the line can't match Intel.  If your budget allows for either the AMD 965 (or what ever is top of the line AMD chip, don't follow closely myself) or an Intel 930 (I'd do that over the 920 for the extra multi, even if you don't OC, more is better), get the AMD, will be cheaper most likely, and probably give you same game results.  If you go into benchmarking, you will see the difference there, but those aren't reflective of entire system performance.


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## Monkey_Business (Apr 8, 2010)

dark2099 said:


> I remember in some comparison, a 965 did compete nicely with a i7 920, or beat it, as people have said.  Here's my take on the whole situation after that review, dollar for dollar, AMD and Intel probably perform similarly, but as comparing performance, AMD top of the line can't match Intel.  If your budget allows for either the AMD 965 (or what ever is top of the line AMD chip, don't follow closely myself) or an Intel 930 (I'd do that over the 920 for the extra multi, even if you don't OC, more is better), get the AMD, will be cheaper most likely, and probably give you same game results.  If you go into benchmarking, you will see the difference there, but those aren't reflective of entire system performance.



Would there be any performance increase while gaming with an AMD 965 or a Ci7 than with my current C2Q Q9400 @ 2.66 GHz? What about the DDR3 1600 MHz RAM from my 800 MHz DDR2? Would I notice any gaming boost from that, and the faster processors.

*Faster bootups
*Slightly faster load times
*More FPS


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## Wile E (Apr 8, 2010)

Monkey_Business said:


> Would there be any performance increase while gaming with an AMD 965 or a Ci7 than with my current C2Q Q9400 @ 2.66 GHz?



With that video card? No. Your current cpu is fine with a 5750. If you want more gaming power right now, you need a better video card, not a new cpu.


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## Monkey_Business (Apr 8, 2010)

The enormous throughput most graphics cards put on a processor in crossfirex/SLI sometimes demands a super-clocked Core i7 to see the real potential of a multi-GPU setup.

I believe this is called a bottleneck.


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## n-ster (Apr 8, 2010)

Nowadays, the processors are usually not the bottleneck... to bottleneck your CPU, you'd need a gtx 480 tri-SLI


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## DonInKansas (Apr 8, 2010)

If you want more gaming power, upgrade your video card unless you're running a ridiculously low resolution.  THOUSANDS of reviews online will tell you this.  Don't be so damn hardheaded.


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## n-ster (Apr 8, 2010)

and looking at your screen, you are not...

So if you want better gaming power, Get a 5850 or something, and Overclock your current cpu (with our help of course), and you will be mighty happy


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## erocker (Apr 8, 2010)

Monkey_Business said:


> The enormous throughput most graphics cards put on a processor in crossfirex/SLI sometimes demands a super-clocked Core i7 to see the real potential of a multi-GPU setup.



False.


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## Wile E (Apr 8, 2010)

Monkey_Business said:


> The enormous throughput most graphics cards put on a processor in crossfirex/SLI sometimes demands a super-clocked Core i7 to see the real potential of a multi-GPU setup.
> 
> I believe this is called a bottleneck.



First off, that is simply not true, secondly, even if it was, you don't have crossfire. Hell, you don't even have a crossfire capable system.

If you want better gameplay, you need a better graphics card, plain and simple. Your 5750 is the bottleneck, not your cpu.


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## Monkey_Business (Apr 9, 2010)

Wile E said:


> First off, that is simply not true, secondly, even if it was, you don't have crossfire. Hell, you don't even have a crossfire capable system.
> 
> If you want better gameplay, you need a better graphics card, plain and simple. Your 5750 is the bottleneck, not your cpu.



The HD 5750 idles @ 37 *C and 64 *C under load. My old HD 4850 which had to be thrown away because it was "fried" after almost a year, idled at 88 *C and 110 *C load.

My 5750 is certainly a lot cooler, and a lot quieter than my other, faulty graphics card.

It wasn't my choice, it was a warranty replacement.

I'm not going to be using my current computer if I'm building a new one.


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## Wile E (Apr 9, 2010)

Monkey_Business said:


> The HD 5750 idles @ 37 *C and 64 *C under load. My old HD 4850 which had to be thrown away because it was "fried" after almost a year, idled at 88 *C and 110 *C load.
> 
> My 5750 is certainly a lot cooler, and a lot quieter than my other, faulty graphics card.
> 
> ...



Most important factor for gaming is still the graphics cards. As long as you have a decent quad, there won't be any bottlenecks in games, just benchmarks.


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## Monkey_Business (Apr 9, 2010)

Wile E said:


> Most important factor for gaming is still the graphics cards. As long as you have a decent quad, there won't be any bottlenecks in games, just benchmarks.



Which would you recommend? A GeForce GTX 480 or a Radeon HD 5870?


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## mdsx1950 (Apr 9, 2010)

Hd 5870.


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## xrealm20 (Apr 9, 2010)

Personally your best value in graphics cards currenty is the Radeon HD5850 -- they can overclock like mad and perform on par if not better than the hd5870. 

If you are looking for the lowest price gaming system and aren't going to be focusing on video editing, etc  - I'd get a Phenom II x2 (i'd get the 555 as they have a VERY high chance of unlocking to a quad core - I have two on my desk that unlock and OC to 3.8 GHz) or x4 BE and the HD 5850.


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## n-ster (Apr 9, 2010)

He has the cash... so I would suggest a PII x4 955 and a 5850 2x2gb DDR3 1600 cas 8 or 9, he already has the HAF 932, and if he wants great cooling, the coolit ECO A.L.C is awesome... else just get an S1283 or a Scythe Mugen 2... But the ECO looks SWEET  http://www.beachaudio.com/CoolIt/Eco-R-p-344791.html


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## Wile E (Apr 10, 2010)

Monkey_Business said:


> Which would you recommend? A GeForce GTX 480 or a Radeon HD 5870?



Tough call. The 5870 uses much less power, runs cooler and is cheaper, but the GTX 480 does perform slightly better. 

Unless you really need CUDA or Physx, I'd get the 5870.


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## n-ster (Apr 10, 2010)

I don't find that a tough call


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## Wile E (Apr 10, 2010)

n-ster said:


> I don't find that a tough call



You would if you needed/wanted CUDA.


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 10, 2010)

Monkey_Business said:


> The HD 5750 idles @ 37 *C and 64 *C under load. My old HD 4850 which had to be thrown away because it was "fried" after almost a year, idled at 88 *C and 110 *C load.
> 
> My 5750 is certainly a lot cooler, and a lot quieter than my other, faulty graphics card.
> 
> ...



No Wonder the 4850 Didnt Survive, Your using a case that is very restricted with airflow as it is.


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## n-ster (Apr 10, 2010)

Wile E said:


> You would if you needed/wanted CUDA.



yea, so it is an easy call if you don't 

and I am pretty darn sure the OP doesn't need PhysX or CUDA


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## Wile E (Apr 10, 2010)

n-ster said:


> yea, so it is an easy call if you don't
> 
> and I am pretty darn sure the OP doesn't need PhysX or CUDA


How do you know he doesn't want CUDA or Physx?

It's still a tough call in my opinion. The 480 performs better, plain and simple. Some people just don't care about consumption. I don't. In fact, my card actually pulls MORE power than the 480. The only reason I don't buy one is the performance difference to my card isn't high enough for the price. I'm waiting till next gen.

The only reason I suggested a 5870 to him over the 480 is he has a hot running case, as evidenced by his 4850 temps, and I don't know what psu he intends to go with.


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## n-ster (Apr 10, 2010)

He did say he was/has a HAF 932 in another thread... and from what I gathered in his other thread, he does not need CUDA or PhysX

IMO, a single 480 is a viable option if you need/want CUDA/PhysX, or if you find a deal and you have good airflow... From my point of view, the 80$ premium is not worth it for that small performance increase


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## HammerON (Apr 10, 2010)

Well lets say that the OP was interested in WCG (crunching for TPU). In that case the i7 920 would be the only way to go as it is hands down ahead of any AMD cpu!


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## Monkey_Business (Apr 10, 2010)

What the hell is "CUDA" anyway?


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## n-ster (Apr 10, 2010)

Don't worry about it... if you are curious, a quick google search will answer your question 

In that case though, 5870 is nice for you


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## Lionheart (Apr 10, 2010)

I thought this thread was about PII & i7's


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 10, 2010)

well... the Phenom II X4 965BE will never be able to compete with the i7's & thats coming from a price point & general performance perspective - the i7 series is capable of hitting 4Ghz on very low voltages. where as the 965BE in some cases needs 1.5v.

as for the price point - the 965 costs roughly the same as a i5 750 (plus a few $) & thats the moot point about the PII X4 - its the top of the range AMD cpu but it gets beat down the i5's that OC like mad & offer you a lot more performance for almost the same money


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## n-ster (Apr 10, 2010)

I see 4 CPU options...

PII 955 (or 965, but 955 better for bang/buck) + AM3 board
i5 750 + 1156 board
i7 860 + 1156 board
i7 920/930 + 1366 board (+usb 3.0 + sata 6gbps? like x58a-ud3r)


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 10, 2010)

n-ster said:


> I see 4 CPU options...
> 
> PII 955 (or 965, but 955 better for bang/buck) + AM3 board
> i5 750 + 1156 board
> ...



whats your budget & what do you plan to do with the system once its built? gaming? work? media Encoding??


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## beyond_amusia (Apr 10, 2010)

Grab an AMD 955, a Radeon 5870 (or 2 5770's if you want to save some cash), 6 GB DDR3 RAM, a damn good mobo and you'll be set for any game that rolls out over the next 2 years so long as you are not playing it at an obscene resolution... Hell, I was playing games on a Pentium D paired with a Radeon 2600 until last year and most ran just fine.

The longer you wait to build a computer, the harder it will be to decide on just what parts to get because when you finally settle on what you want, it's suddenly replaced with an even bigger and better part.


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## n-ster (Apr 10, 2010)

FreedomEclipse said:


> whats your budget & what do you plan to do with the system once its built? gaming? work? media Encoding??



Yo do know this is for the OP right?

and the OP did make a thread for it before this one


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## Monkey_Business (Apr 10, 2010)

n-ster said:


> Yo do know this is for the OP right?
> 
> and the OP did make a thread for it before this one



My budget is $2,000 not a penny over. I am using this computer almost entirely for gaming. Does the i7 really put out that much gaming performance than an AMD X4 965 BE?


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## n-ster (Apr 10, 2010)

not gaming performance... pure raw performance


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 10, 2010)

Wile E said:


> How do you know he doesn't want CUDA or Physx?
> 
> It's still a tough call in my opinion. The 480 performs better, plain and simple. Some people just don't care about consumption. I don't. In fact, my card actually pulls MORE power than the 480. The only reason I don't buy one is the performance difference to my card isn't high enough for the price. I'm waiting till next gen.
> 
> The only reason I suggested a 5870 to him over the 480 is he has a hot running case, as evidenced by his 4850 temps, and I don't know what psu he intends to go with.



I don't really care about the consumption ether. Its that damn 80 bucks extra for like 10% increase over a stock 5870. With a very mild OC that 5870 will put you in a 480 performance bracket. The 480 sucks for the money. THATS plain and simple.

You know it and I do.


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## beyond_amusia (Apr 10, 2010)

If you have $2000 then get an i7 920.


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## bobzilla2009 (Apr 10, 2010)

if you're a gamer, get a phenom II X4. If you like to do lots of video encoding then get an i7. But i assume you want to be gaming. Therefore buy a phenom II X4, or just wait for the phenom II X6's to come out soon. AFAIK they'll still cost less than an i7.


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## Monkey_Business (Apr 10, 2010)

bobzilla2009 said:


> if you're a gamer, get a phenom II X4. If you like to do lots of video encoding then get an i7. But i assume you want to be gaming. Therefore buy a phenom II X4, or just wait for the phenom II X6's to come out soon. AFAIK they'll still cost less than an i7.



The 6-core AMD chips have lower stock clock speeds, I think below 3 GHz. This is to cut down on the large heat output on the hexacores.

Would Six cores affect gaming performance in any way? Even quad cores hardly effect games. Most games are only coded to run on Two CPU cores. With the exception of a number of PC games I can count on a single hand, like GTA 4 and World in Conflict. Even Crysis only uses Two cores.

I doubt having Six cores will give your games a boost.


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 10, 2010)

bobzilla2009 said:


> if you're a gamer, get a phenom II X4. If you like to do lots of video encoding then get an i7. But i assume you want to be gaming. Therefore buy a phenom II X4, or just wait for the phenom II X6's to come out soon. AFAIK they'll still cost less than an i7.



O B J E C T I O N

If you are a gamer - it would be a better idea to get the i7 (or i5 if your on a budget) because its not just raw performance. i7 & i5's excel in most fields that it is applied to respectively

heres a few gaming benchmarks












Encoding benches











(Special thanks to bit-tech.net)

even when overclocked - it still gets out paced by a Q9650 though not by much - but A Q9650 would probably clock a few 100mhz higher then that 965BE would.

If you got the money to spend - Id definitely go for an i7 930 without a second thought.


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## mdsx1950 (Apr 10, 2010)

Monkey_Business said:


> My budget is $2,000 not a penny over. I am using this computer almost entirely for gaming. Does the i7 really put out that much gaming performance than an AMD X4 965 BE?



$2k is more than enough to get some good stuff. Go with AMD so you can upgrade some other stuff. But pick up a good Mobo that will support the X6 series so you got room to upgrade..  But i'd go with i7 (i'm kindoff an intel fanboy )


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 10, 2010)

FreedomEclipse said:


> O B J E C T I O N
> 
> If you are a gamer - it would be a better idea to get the i7 (or i5 if your on a budget) because its not just raw performance. i7 & i5's excel in most fields that it is applied to respectively
> 
> ...



For gaming is doesn't matter. I can post gaming benches where the PII beats an i7. Just go with what you want. If you want raw power go with an i7. If you want to be "OC friendly" and a tad bit cheaper then go PII. You can't lose with ether. 

Spend your money on a good GPU however. You could have a mainframe for a CPU but if your GPU sucks then it will make no difference.


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## bobzilla2009 (Apr 10, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> For gaming is doesn't matter. I can post gaming benches where the PII beats an i7. Just go with what you want. If you want raw power go with an i7. If you want to be "OC friendly" and a tad bit cheaper then go PII. You can't lose with ether.
> 
> Spend your money on a good GPU however. You could have a mainframe for a CPU but if your GPU sucks then it will make no difference.



indeed, you can always pull benchies to support your argument no matter the viewpoint. The i7 and PII are pretty much equal for gaming, and the i7 is generally better for some other things. Is it really noticeable to a normal gamer user (i.e. someone who plays games and doesn't obsess over 2 fps difference)? no, is it worth the extra money for the overall platform for a gamer? in my opinion absolutely not. 

Crysis is also limited by its inability to use more than one core well (physics runs on only one core, leaving the others idling effectively). Overall, spend that extra £200 for the i7 platform on a better gpu and be happier!


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## crazyeyesreaper (Apr 10, 2010)

i have to agree crysis uses 1-2 cores max on my system to the point the cpu cant feed my gpus fast enough cause the game dosent effectively use multiple cores. eitherway in general a better gpu gives better frame rates in games even Metro2033 show very little variation as it only uses 2 cores max.  So even todays most demanding titles cant really effectively use a PII or an i7 except in rare cases and even then those games are older and are not very demanding on current hardware


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 10, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I don't really care about the consumption ether. Its that damn 80 bucks extra for like 10% increase over a stock 5870. With a very mild OC that 5870 will put you in a 480 performance bracket. The 480 sucks for the money. THATS plain and simple.
> 
> You know it and I do.



Not to mention power bill will increase significantly


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## Corduroy_Jr (Apr 11, 2010)

phenom II vs ic ore 7 is over rated there's no program's or games that support 8 theards ect so there for phenom II isnt that far off


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## Monkey_Business (Apr 11, 2010)

Should I get a Phenom II and Two HD 5850's and crossfire them?

I should still be below 2K right?

What PSU would your recommend for Two HD 5850's in xfire?

Would x2 5850's outperform a single 5870?


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## Kantastic (Apr 11, 2010)

Monkey_Business said:


> Should I get a Phenom II and Two HD 5850's and crossfire them?
> 
> I should still be below 2K right?



Yes, there won't be any bottleneck and you'd get the same gaming performance as you would with an i7.

Budget wise you should be under 2K, that's if you spend wisely. Don't buy a 8272058 watt power supply and a 512MB SSD or anything.


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## erocker (Apr 11, 2010)

Monkey_Business said:


> 1. Should I get a Phenom II and Two HD 5850's and crossfire them?
> 
> 2. I should still be below 2K right?
> 
> ...



1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Everybody loves Corsair. 650w plus will do.

4. Yes


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## MoonPig (Apr 11, 2010)

Kantastic said:


> Yes, there won't be any bottleneck and you'd get the same gaming performance as you would with an i7.
> 
> Budget wise you should be under 2K, that's if you spend wisely. Don't buy a 8272058 watt power supply and a *512MB SSD* or anything.



They sell them? Must be getting desperate now... lol.

750w would be more than enough for that setup matey  Get something like:

Seasonic, Silverstone, Corsair, Enermax.


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## Kantastic (Apr 11, 2010)

erocker said:


> 3. Everybody loves Corsair. 650w plus will do.



Right-o. 

I personally bought a Corsair HX850 because it's the highest rated PSU by Corsair that's made by Seasonic and carries a 7 year warranty versus the HX1000's 5 year warranty, which is unsurprisingly made by CWT. I think you'll be well off with an HX750 though, again, made by Seasonic w/ a 7 year warranty. I probably won't ever see over 550W on my unit... I'm starting to regret not buying a 750. 



MoonPig said:


> They sell them? Must be getting desperate now... lol.
> 
> 750w would be more than enough for that setup matey





I meant GB.


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## Corduroy_Jr (Apr 11, 2010)

for your specs is not needed to buy such a psu


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## alexsubri (Apr 11, 2010)

Monkey_Business said:


> Should I get a Phenom II and Two HD 5850's and crossfire them?
> 
> I should still be below 2K right?
> 
> ...



For the Love of God  look at my system spec's they cost me around $2300 ... you will never regret it. My system can shake a stick and take a $h%t at any program and video game, check out my video game montages!

And yest 5850 is faster than one 5870


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## Corduroy_Jr (Apr 11, 2010)

hows that possible cause your 5850 is overclock, ps i waiting for a feedback if i should buy a 5850 or not


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 11, 2010)

I suspect his Ram and Video card to have driven the price over 2000 USD easily and depending on where he shopped. Corsair Dominators are Pricey for the performance you get, Ive done comparisons on the past and Dominators are not worth it especially when you have ram that performs the same but at 400 Dollars less.


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## n-ster (Apr 11, 2010)

I must warn you though... the PII 955/965 isn't a big step up from what you have now... Do you really need to replace your whole computer?

You could just move everything you have in your HAF 932, add a nice CPU cooler, and a 5970 or 2x 5850 if your motherboard supports it... But a 5970 isn't much more expensive than 2x 5850... Used or new, you can probably get it around 650$ http://www.provantage.com/asus-eah5970g2dis2gd5~AASU916V.htm


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## Corduroy_Jr (Apr 11, 2010)

bottom line monkey if u don't overclock your cpu to reach the max potential of your ati hd 5750 then there's not point in jumping to a new vider card if u cant surpass the bottleneck of the cpu


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## n-ster (Apr 11, 2010)

Corduroy_Jr said:


> bottom line monkey if u don't overclock your cpu to reach the max potential of your ati hd 5750 then there's not point in jumping to a new vider card if u cant surpass the bottleneck of the cpu



His CPU is NOT bottlenecking him atm... If you gets an HD 5970, a OC to 3.2Ghz should releave the bottleneck in that case... but the 5750 is definitively NOT bottlenecked by his CPU atm


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## Corduroy_Jr (Apr 11, 2010)

thats agreed with ht at 8 threads yes


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## n-ster (Apr 11, 2010)

Corduroy_Jr said:


> thats agreed with ht at 8 threads yes



I meant that his Q9400 is definitively not bottlenecking his GPU

a Q9400 does not have HT, it only has 4 cores/4threads


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## Kantastic (Apr 11, 2010)

alexsubri said:


> For the Love of God  look at my system spec's they cost me around $2300 ... you will never regret it. My system can shake a stick and take a $h%t at any program and video game, check out my video game montages!
> 
> And yest 5850 is faster than one 5870



Mother of God when did you build your system? I can't seem to figure out how it amounts to 2.3K...

Oh ygpm about your Asetek LCLC system.


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## Corduroy_Jr (Apr 11, 2010)

2.66ghz is a bottleneck even with 4 cores


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## n-ster (Apr 11, 2010)

Corduroy_Jr said:


> 2.66ghz is a bottleneck even with 4 cores



Not even close... especially not with a 5750


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## Corduroy_Jr (Apr 11, 2010)

we all are entitled to our own oppion to me it is


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## n-ster (Apr 11, 2010)

Not an opinion, it is a fact lol... I'll try to find you proof soon...

We all learn something new each day


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## beyond_amusia (Apr 11, 2010)

It's stupid to measure a chip's speed in GHz - a 3 GHz Pentium D is totally pwned by a 1.86 Ghz Core 2 Duo - There are a ton of factors at play in a CPU, clockspeed means a lot less now that in did 5 years ago.


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## Corduroy_Jr (Apr 11, 2010)

anothier person's oppion its more cores or its a high cpu clock come on its not that hard to figure out we should all know this by now


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## alexsubri (Apr 11, 2010)

Corduroy_Jr said:


> hows that possible cause your 5850 is overclock, ps i waiting for a feedback if i should buy a 5850 or not



I have 5850 crossfire


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## n-ster (Apr 11, 2010)

The architecture, the cache, the platform, all that stuff counts in determining a CPU's performance... This isn't really an opinion... Either your CPU gives enough performance or not...


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## Corduroy_Jr (Apr 11, 2010)

right on good to know, should i buy a motherboard or a ati card to replace my 9600gt clocked at 800 1850/1200 x2 btw


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## Corduroy_Jr (Apr 11, 2010)

i tossed in my amd phenom II 920 x4 into a m4a79 duluxe  and ht 3.7ghz at 1.450v, so i know for sure i can reach 3.8ghz 24/7 which is unrare for a c2 stepping


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## alexsubri (Apr 11, 2010)

Kantastic said:


> Mother of God when did you build your system? I can't seem to figure out how it amounts to 2.3K...
> 
> Oh ygpm about your Asetek LCLC system.



$1,500 from CyberPowerPC + $500 New Egg Goodies + 300 23" LG 1080p monitor


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## HammerON (Apr 11, 2010)

Corduroy_Jr said:


> phenom II vs ic ore 7 is over rated there's no program's or games that support 8 theards ect so there for phenom II isnt that far off



World Community Grid runs 8 threads (or more if you have them)...


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## Wile E (Apr 11, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I don't really care about the consumption ether. Its that damn 80 bucks extra for like 10% increase over a stock 5870. With a very mild OC that 5870 will put you in a 480 performance bracket. The 480 sucks for the money. THATS plain and simple.
> 
> You know it and I do.



No, what sucks for the money is a 2GB 5870. Same price as a 480 with less performance.



Corduroy_Jr said:


> anothier person's oppion its more cores or its a high cpu clock come on its not that hard to figure out we should all know this by now



You are wrong. His cpu is not a bottleneck for a 5750, AT ALL. Only benchmarks would be effected.


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## Yukikaze (Apr 11, 2010)

Corduroy_Jr said:


> 2.66ghz is a bottleneck even with 4 cores



The "Bottleneck" is affected by the hardware, the application running, the resolution you are running it at and any enabled post-processing options.

Stating that "2.66Ghz is a bottleneck even with 4 cores" is a statement devoid of any useful content and it is utterly false as a blanket statement.


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Apr 11, 2010)

Thought the 480 was going to retail with a $50 price hike, $550.


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## Bjorn_Of_Iceland (Apr 11, 2010)

From what I've been seeing, Phenom IIs are more in line with 45nm Core 2 Quads for a direct competition in performance (sans the 775 being dead and stuff)...


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## Kantastic (Apr 11, 2010)

Bjorn_Of_Iceland said:


> From what I've been seeing, Phenom IIs are more in line with 45nm Core 2 Quads for a direct competition in performance (sans the 775 being dead and stuff)...



More or less. 

IMO the only reason to buy Intel at this point in time is for i5/i7 because if you're looking for the next step down in performance AM3 would be the only logical choice as it has 6-core support laid out.


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## Bjorn_Of_Iceland (Apr 11, 2010)

Kantastic said:


> More or less.
> 
> IMO the only reason to buy Intel at this point in time is for i5/i7 because if you're looking for the next step down in performance AM3 would be the only logical choice as it has 6-core support laid out.


Yes, and it would be a better option to go AM3 imo. Not that much difference over i7s in real world in fact.


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 11, 2010)

Bjorn_Of_Iceland said:


> From what I've been seeing, Phenom IIs are more in line with 45nm Core 2 Quads for a direct competition in performance (sans the 775 being dead and stuff)...



By the Time AMD came out with their Parts Intel dropped support for it, Reminds me of the Slot 1 Pentium transition to 370 and Transition from SKT 423 to 478.


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## Monkey_Business (Apr 11, 2010)

The HD 5970's run EXTREMELY hot. For the past year, my single slot HD 4850 idled at 85 *C and 107 *C under load. The fan consistently running at high RPM forced me to play all my games with headphones so I could hear them.

My HD 4850 is fried, was thrown away, and replaced with my HD 5750.

I'm surprised that it lasted as long as it did (one year) consistently running at those temperatures. And that it didn't die within the first few months of owning it.

The HD 5970's, just like the 4870 X2's, run at similar temperatures using their reference coolers. I can't imagine the fan would be much quiet, either.

Will the ASUS Crosshair III Formula AM3 motherboards support AMD's six-cores?


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## Monkey_Business (Apr 11, 2010)

How about this $200 X58 motherboard, and a Core i7 930 for only about $100 more? $200 is a very good price for an X58 motherboard. It is almost the same price as the ASUS Crosshair III Formula.

Plus, the PC shop I plan having build my computer told me they might be able to get some deals on Intel hardware.

The i7 930's and 920's are known to overclock very well, don't they? After the warranty has expired, and I've learned more about overclocking, I might give it a shot. I'm not aiming for 4 GHz, maybe 3.2 or 3.4.

Even at stock speeds, the i7 930's blow anything AMD has right now out of the water.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...e=foxconn_flamingblade-_-13-186-171-_-Product

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...5225&cm_re=core_i7_930-_-19-115-225-_-Product

Does the Foxconn flamingblade have overclocking abilities enabled in it's BIOS?

My current OEM Foxconn G33 has overclocking permanently disabled by the manufacturer.

Most, if not all OEM boards do.


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 11, 2010)

alexsubri said:


> $1,500 from CyberPowerPC + $500 New Egg Goodies + 300 23" LG 1080p monitor


 Thats not a build. Thats a pre-built. You could have built a much better rig for the money you spent. I'm not trying to insult you ether. Im just stating a fact.



Wile E said:


> No, what sucks for the money is a 2GB 5870. Same price as a 480 with less performance.


 Well yeah. But I have no idea why you would even bother with a 2GB version.


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## Monkey_Business (Apr 11, 2010)

I used the calculator tool in accessories and it all added up to around $1,900 using the retail prices from newegg, minus the newegg discounts.

I don't know how much the tax is on all those parts. I did not include the cost of the computer case, because I have a CM HAF 932 sitting in my closet right now...

CPU - Ci7 930
Motherboard - Foxconn Flamingblade X58
RAM - 6GB DDR3 1600 MHz triple-channel
GPU - MSI HD 5870 Lightning
PSU - Rosewill 1,000W
DVD Drive (I honestly don't need blu-ray)
Hard drive - Seagate 1.5 TB 7200 RPM
OS - Windows 7 professional
Anti-virus - NAV 2010
+ Cost of construction $99.99
- Cost of computer case

It all came up to around $1,900. I have a strict budget of $2,000.

How much would the total tax be on all those components?


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 11, 2010)

Monkey_Business said:


> I used the calculator tool in accessories and it all added up to around $1,900 using the retail prices from newegg, minus the newegg discounts.
> 
> I don't know how much the tax is on all those parts. I did not include the cost of the computer case, because I have a CM HAF 932 sitting in my closet right now...
> 
> ...



Foxcon mobo = no
Rosewell PSU = BIG no
Anti-virus = no need to buy. Use AVG or MSE


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## Monkey_Business (Apr 11, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Foxcon mobo = no
> Rosewell PSU = BIG no
> Anti-virus = no need to buy. Use AVG or MSE



How come?


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 11, 2010)

Monkey_Business said:


> How come?



Foxcon mobo are low quality IMO. Some will disagree. I would go Asus.

Rosewell PSU are complete and utter garbage. The most important component of a rig is the PSU (Power). Go with Corsair or Enermax. You will pay a LOT more but its worth it.

Anti-Virus: Why pay when you can get full featured protection for free? I use MSE and its great!


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## crazyeyesreaper (Apr 11, 2010)

for power supplies 

PC Power & Cooling 750watt silencer

Corsair tx750

Silverstone

Enermax revolution series

etc are good brands and long standing in quality psu's dont skimp on a quality unit huge wattage numbers dont mean squat quality is what matters so spend a few bucks get a decent psu or potential pay the price if said unit fails and wipes out your system


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## Tatty_One (Apr 11, 2010)

AVG is a good and frre Anti Virus, I have been using it.... well forever.  Do you really need a 1000W PSU?  What graphics cards are you using in that system?  Possibly a nice Corsair HX or TX 750W might do you and they are better.

Foxconn are getting better, I have heard decent reports of their x58 boards but also look at Gigabyte, if you are on a budget perhaps go for the UDP4 or even slightly lower.  If I could only change one thing in there though it would probably be the PSU.


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## Monkey_Business (Apr 12, 2010)

X58 motherboards are quite expensive. $200 is actually a very good price for one. "Flamingblade" sounds like it is geared towards gaming. Could you recommend any other decent, X58 mobos for around $200?

What PSU wattage would be appropriate for my build?


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 12, 2010)

Monkey_Business said:


> X58 motherboards are quite expensive. $200 is actually a very good price for one. "Flamingblade" sounds like it is geared towards gaming. Could you recommend any other decent, X58 mobos for around $200?
> 
> What PSU wattage would be appropriate for my build?



I'm an AMD guy. However some of the Intel guys should be able to help. If you can find a ROG X58 I would go with that.


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Apr 12, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Rosewell PSU = BIG no



I've built dozens of cheap systems using rosewell supplies. Haven't had a problem with any of them or the parts they supply power too.


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## Kantastic (Apr 12, 2010)

Monkey_Business said:


> X58 motherboards are quite expensive. $200 is actually a very good price for one. "Flamingblade" sounds like it is geared towards gaming. Could you recommend any other decent, X58 mobos for around $200?
> 
> What PSU wattage would be appropriate for my build?



1. Go for one of the Gigabyte boards, Paulieg (our lovely mod) has tried just about every X58 board and he swears by Gigabyte being the most stable.

2. 800-1000W would be fine. I highly recommend a Corsair HX850. Corsair's 7 year warranty and customer service is top notch, and the unit itself is very, very efficient.


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## n-ster (Apr 12, 2010)

For the price range and the features, you CAN'T beat a Gigabyte X58a-ud3r.... Seriously, 200$, 2 PCI-Es, SATA 6gbps, USB 3.0, 2oz copper, best stability, LOVELY BIOS!

Paulieg and Fits both would vouch for a gig board...

Rosewill is a big NO for higher end systems


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 12, 2010)

LAN_deRf_HA said:


> I've built dozens of cheap systems using rosewell supplies. Haven't had a problem with any of them or the parts they supply power too.



I guess you dont mind ripple.


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## n-ster (Apr 12, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I guess you dont mind ripple.



Oh yea, I forgot the mention not for Overclocking either  and ripple slowly kills your components faster than a non-rippling PSU


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## Kantastic (Apr 12, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I guess you dont mind ripple.



Well he did say a 'cheap' systems so it doesn't really matter.


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Apr 12, 2010)

As long as it isn't causing hardware failures, then no I suppose I don't care.


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## n-ster (Apr 12, 2010)

It does in the long run, and I am sure you like OCing?


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## trickson (Apr 12, 2010)

Monkey_Business said:


> I heard that the Phenom II X4 965 at any clock speed, is only 1/3 as fast as the Core i7.
> 
> The Ci7 is so fast, it will shave Tens of seconds off of loading times in all games, as well as give a boost Tens of FPS compared to the Phenom II. The Ci7 is a bit pricey though....
> 
> Is it really worth it to pay a few more Hundred dollars for a Core i7 as opposed to a top-notch AMD computer?



Good question . maybe you should ask is it better to wait and see how well the AMD 6 core CPU's perform then make your mind up ? I am in the same boat , I want a great computer at a cheep price but it is a price / performance issue and well AMD is really not that far behind i7 .


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## Kantastic (Apr 12, 2010)

IMO a power supply is a long term investment. I mean you can go with cheap units but lets say you buy a cheap unit for $70 and a quality unit for $130, when the cheap unit craps out on you and you're out of warranty where does that put you? It puts you another $70 short or down a total of $140. Better safe than sorry.


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Apr 12, 2010)

n-ster said:


> It does in the long run, and I am sure you like OCing?



Define long run? All of the systems have a mild cpu overclock and card clock, still yet to have to repair a single one after years. Well that's not true, I did replace one system a dog pee'd on.

For reference we're talking like $350-400 e5200/4670 systems. For something more high end like what the op wants I'd use a corsair.


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 12, 2010)

Ive had this Neo HE 500 for about 4 Years Now and Hasn't quit on me, Video card stated it required a 450 watt PSU but I already had the PSU before the card. Best 90 USD i spent at the time. 





n-ster said:


> Oh yea, I forgot the mention not for Overclocking either  and ripple slowly kills your components faster than a non-rippling PSU



same with brownouts and sudden power-downs.


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## n-ster (Apr 12, 2010)

LAN_deRf_HA said:


> Define long run? All of the systems have a mild cpu overclock and card clock, still yet to have to repair a single one after years. Well that's not true, I did replace one system a dog pee'd on.
> 
> For reference we're talking like $350-400 e5200/4670 systems. For something more high end like what the op wants I'd use a corsair.



That low end? then I guess you can settle on rosewill... Still though, you don't want to push your CPU or GPU much with one...

Long run.... Well that is VERY dependent on the situation... depends on cooling, case (airflow), Fans, stress on the PSU, OCs, maintenance (dust?)... I'd say in a bad situation, 2 years ish... In a good situation 10-15 years ish... Oh and it depends on the components too

I'd say a e5200/4670 built by a TPU member (you), go ahead and get rosewill, or a cheap similar / better quality option


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## Monkey_Business (Apr 12, 2010)

GRID really uses 8 threads?


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## HammerON (Apr 12, 2010)




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## exodusprime1337 (Apr 12, 2010)

HammerON said:


> http://img.techpowerup.org/100412/Capture015.jpg



i'm just joining this thread.. what is this supposed to represent.. the above post mention grid using 8 threads, and then u posted this.. is there a correlation that i'm missing?


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## HammerON (Apr 12, 2010)

I was thinking the OP was talking about World Community Grid, but I could be wrong~


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## Monkey_Business (Apr 12, 2010)

HammerON said:


> I was thinking the OP was talking about World Community Grid, but I could be wrong~



Race driver GRID was what I was talking about.

It uses 4 cores and 8 threads.

It is a VERY well-coded game.


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## Wile E (Apr 12, 2010)

Monkey_Business said:


> X58 motherboards are quite expensive. $200 is actually a very good price for one. "Flamingblade" sounds like it is geared towards gaming. Could you recommend any other decent, X58 mobos for around $200?
> 
> What PSU wattage would be appropriate for my build?



Any Gigabyte X58 board is excellent.



LAN_deRf_HA said:


> I've built dozens of *cheap systems *using rosewell supplies. Haven't had a problem with any of them or the parts they supply power too.



Key words. I would never put one on a high end system.

As for building a gaming rig, I think I would still go X58, even with Phenom X6's looming on the horizon, only because you have more options as far as multiple graphics card setups are concerned. You are stuck with only Crossfire on an AMD rig, you can have Crossfire or SLI on X58.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Apr 12, 2010)

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd5870-cpu-scaling_3.html#sect2

found the link it compares Core2 vs Phenom II vs Core i7 take your pic but unless ur multi gpu it dosent really make a difference


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## erocker (Apr 12, 2010)

Monkey_Business said:


> Race driver GRID was what I was talking about.
> 
> It uses 4 cores and 8 threads.
> 
> It is a VERY well-coded game.



It really is! 

Thing is it can be played maxed out with a dual core and a 1gb 4870 with 1920x1200 resolution.


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## Monkey_Business (Apr 14, 2010)

GRID, like GTA4 and WiC, is one of the very few titles that does use Four processor cores. It's a racing game, most racing games aren't too demanding, and can easily be maxed with any mid-range PC. I don't understand why it would require that much CPU power. Could it be the physics engine, perhaps? GTA4 has to process things like character AI, and advanced physics.


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