# Upgrading a rig for ~500$



## Mustkunstn1k (Jan 15, 2009)

Here is my current rig (everything beside the RAM is bought in 2006 autumn):

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6300
Mobo: GIGABYTE 965P-DS3
GPU: GeForce 7600GT
RAM: 3 x A-DATA 1GB DDRII 800 128Mx8
PSU: Fortron Blue Storm 500W
OS: Xp, maybe change to Win7 if it comes out.

I'm trying to get it up to date so i can play games like Call of Duty 4 (WaW), GTA IV etc with good fps and everything set to high. Right now i'm thinking of buying a GPU for the next few years (like the one i have now). Maybe i'll update CPU and Mobo in the future.

In the moment i have a 19" monitor (1280 x 1024), but i'm likley getting a bigger monitor soon. I'm thinking of 24" (1920 x 1200) - that does not go into this budget.

I don't live in USA so the currency isn't $, let's just call it "credits". My budget is about 5000 credits (which kinda equals 500$, but stuff pays more here). I'll post some prices down below and feel free to ask how much something costs.

I myself was thinking of getting one more memory so it will work in duals or whatever, a 4870 1GB GPU and maybe overclock the CPU (once i learn how to do it)?

Anyway, here are some prices:

Gigabyte RADEON HD 4850 1GB - 2535
Gigabyte RADEON HD 4870 1GB - 4020
Asus RADEON EAH4870/HTDI/512 - 3595
Sapphire RADEON HD 4870X2 2GB GDDR5 - 7322
Asus GeForce 200 Series ENGTX260/HTDP/896M - 4330
Gigabyte GeForce 200 Series GTX 280 1GB - 5704
MSI GeForce 9 Series 9800GX2 1GB - 5110
EVGA GeForce 9 Series 9800GTX KO Knock-out version - 5030
A-DATA 1GB DDRII 800 128Mx8 - 175


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## kenkickr (Jan 15, 2009)

I would recommend going with the 4850 so you have some credits to get a better, more up-to-date, motherboard since you mentioned overclocking.


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## Mustkunstn1k (Jan 15, 2009)

How importand a mobo really is for gaming? I've heard that 4870 1GB can make the fps twice as high when compared to the 4850 512mb version.


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## Asylum (Jan 15, 2009)

It can but if you dont have a good motherboard it will bottleneck your GPU!!


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## phanbuey (Jan 15, 2009)

Asylum said:


> It can but if you dont have a good motherboard it will bottleneck your GPU!!



p965 is pci-e 16X - that chipset is virtually as fast as p35 and will not, under any circumstances, bottleneck a 4870 1gb...

 @ OP that 4870 1GB is a *STEAL* at that price.  Get that.  Also get another stick of ram so you can run proper dual channel.  

your proc will be next on the upgrade agenda - maybe a Q?... that mobo will be fine for a while still.


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## Mustkunstn1k (Jan 15, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> p965 is pci-e 16X - that chipset is virtually as fast as p35 and will not, under any circumstances, bottleneck a 4870 1gb...
> 
> @ OP that 4870 1GB is a *STEAL* at that price.  Get that.  Also get another stick of ram so you can run proper dual channel.
> 
> your proc will be next on the upgrade agenda - maybe a Q?... that mobo will be fine for a while still.


That's exactly what i was thinking. But then again i've heard that bottleneck talk about my Mobo before.

Anyway yeah, i was thinking of getting 4-core CPU when there are more games really utilizing it in the fututure (as i understand, there aren't many now).


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## Asylum (Jan 15, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> p965 is pci-e 16X - that chipset is virtually as fast as p35 and will not, under any circumstances, bottleneck a 4870 1gb...
> 
> @ OP that 4870 1GB is a *STEAL* at that price.  Get that.  Also get another stick of ram so you can run proper dual channel.
> 
> your proc will be next on the upgrade agenda - maybe a Q?... that mobo will be fine for a while still.



Some say yes some say no....I think as long as you are running it at high res. it should be fine!!


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## phanbuey (Jan 15, 2009)

Mustkunstn1k said:


> That's exactly what i was thinking. But then again i've heard that bottleneck talk about my Mobo before.
> 
> Anyway yeah, i was thinking of getting 4-core CPU when there are more games really utilizing it in the fututure (as i understand, there aren't many now).



most people dont realize/forget how good the 965 chipset is - it has slightly lower MCH timings than p35 which makes it amazing for overclocking... PCI-e 16X isnt a bottleneck for any current video card either, so i really cant imagine how a P965 board can be a bottleneck.

plus that board supports 45nm CPU's... 

youre right about the 4core support... there aren't many now but there will be in the future.  If youre itching for an upgrade on teh CPU right now i would go with an E-0 E8500 wolfdale... it will clock up to 4.3-4.5Ghz on that mobo w/o a problem and would match a stock clocked q6600/ phenom 9950 in multithreaded calculations.   That way you wouldnt have to touch the PSU.  If you go quad, you may need a new PSU.

EDIT:also for overclocking settings on the gigabyte boards, go into the bios and press CTRL+F1 for memory settings/added OC options... i can help you OC that board since i used to have the 965-S3... (sorry for long post)


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## PCpraiser100 (Jan 15, 2009)

For folding, use a GTX 280. For gaming, rock it with the HD 4870X2. You might need a new board.


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## Mustkunstn1k (Jan 15, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> most people dont realize/forget how good the 965 chipset is - it has slightly lower MCH timings than p35 which makes it amazing for overclocking... PCI-e 16X isnt a bottleneck for any current video card either, so i really cant imagine how a P965 board can be a bottleneck.
> 
> plus that board supports 45nm CPU's...
> 
> ...


Thank's. Right now it seems to be one more memory stick with 4870 1GB and overlock both mobo and CPU? But i haven't overclocked anything before so i'll prolly need to find a good tutorial.

PCpraiser100 - Don't have that much money.


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## Asylum (Jan 15, 2009)

Heres a few good reads!!
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=22916
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=30480
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=20251


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## CJCerny (Jan 15, 2009)

Your rig isn't really too out of date. Your CPU and motherboard are just fine. Focus on getting 2gb or 4gb of RAM and a new video card (1gb 4870 would be a great choice). Don't worry about the OS or power suppy or anything else.


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## Mustkunstn1k (Jan 15, 2009)

How needed the overclocking actually is? The links Asylum gave really overwhelmed me - specialy the second. Also, English isn't my first language so i might not ever undestand everything and since i don't know much about hardware i have a feeling i could prolly break something.

Somehow i hope that i can change a GPU. I've changed my RAM and added a HDD before, but i can iamgine a GPU being a little bit harder.


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## Asylum (Jan 15, 2009)

Installing A Graphics Card Is Simple....just Uninstall Your Old Drivers For Your Old Card...go Into Your Files And Delete The Drivers Folder....then Shut Down Your Computer And Remove The Old Card And Install The New One...make Sure To Plug In Power Cable To New Card And Start Computer....then When It Starts Up Cancel All Newfound Hardware Installs That Pop Up And Download Newest Drivers For Your Card And Install!!!   And You Are Done!!


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## Mustkunstn1k (Jan 15, 2009)

That's what i hoped for. With memory and HDD i didn't even need to install any drivers. Just plugged it in..


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## AltecV1 (Jan 15, 2009)

Sa oled Eestlane


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## silkstone (Jan 15, 2009)

Yup, Video card and Ram and new heatsink for overclocking. don't be worried about trying to overclock - the folks here will give you lots of help.


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## Mustkunstn1k (Jan 15, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> Sa oled Eestlane


Jup.



silkstone said:


> Yup, Video card and Ram and new heatsink for overclocking. don't be worried about trying to overclock - the folks here will give you lots of help.


Okay, but a new heatsink? What excactly is it (do you mean that i get a new one for my mobo?). Haven't even seen it sold here where i live.


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## crazy pyro (Jan 15, 2009)

A new cooling fan for your CPU is what he meant.


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## Mustkunstn1k (Jan 15, 2009)

crazy pyro said:


> A new cooling fan for your CPU is what he meant.


Haven't even seen a new one being sold at any store. How needed it is anyway? Other's didn't mention about it.


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## crazy pyro (Jan 15, 2009)

For overclocking, the stock one you have won't be great. If you're overclocking unless you've either got a very good chip or you want to kill your processor you need better than stock cooling.


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## silkstone (Jan 15, 2009)

If the store is selling high end computer equipment they should also sell aftermarket cooling (CPU fans) they are really easy to install. You don't need one to overclock, but if you want better results you should get one.
If you don;t know much about computers get some practice in.
Open your PC up, see what's inside and have a play. Don't be scared it's really easy as long as you have a little sense.
Look where the wires are in your pc, look at the cards inside. figure out how they separate from your motherboard. just turn the power off. and if you unplug anything inside, plug it back in after. And one at a time, don;t dismantle your whole pc and forget where everything goes.
If your not sure what something does, post a pic and ask the members of the forum.


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## crazy pyro (Jan 15, 2009)

Make sure to drain all power from your PC after turning it off before taking stuff out of it otherwise you may give yourself a shock.


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## Mustkunstn1k (Jan 15, 2009)

Hmh, haven't seen those coolers and the shops on the internet (my country's) don't seem to sell them. But still - how much of a difference does overclocking make? And could i actually just get my Memory and 4870 - put them in the machine and be happy about it?

I didn't really undestand what that last comment of crazy pyro meant. If it means what i think it means then last time i just took the wires out and started moving stuff. Now i have learned that you have to (don't know the phrase in English) so you wouldn't get a shock. Like you need to touch the back side of the rig and that pro's have a special wire going from their wrist.. The last time i opened a rig up i also did it on a carpet, which is prolly really bad. :/


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## BarbaricSoul (Jan 15, 2009)

hi Mustkunstn1k.

To answer your question about OC'ing, is it neccasary? No, not really.Does it help with gaming performance, most definently. Easiest way I can explain this is, take your 2 1/2 year old 1.8 dual core cpu, OC it to 3 gigs(this may be farther than you'll be able to acheive) and your 1.8 dual core is running at the same speed as my $165 higher end E8400 dual core cpu at stock speeds. 

Your motherboard isn't gonna cause any bottlenecking in your system, but your cpu at 1.8 gigs will most definently bottleneck a 1 gig 4870. Doing a moderate OC, say for instance taking your CPU from 1.8 to 2.6, is actually pretty easy. And the increase in frames per second in gaming will make it all worth it.

Oh, one last thing, I almost forgot. OC'ing is more performance *FOR FREE*


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## BarbaricSoul (Jan 15, 2009)

Here is some examples of the CPU heatsinks/fans they are talking about.

http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=574&name=CPU-Fans-Heatsinks


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## spearman914 (Jan 15, 2009)

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/ati-4800-series-review.ars Review 4850 vs 4870


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## AltecV1 (Jan 15, 2009)

Sa võiksid videokaardiks valida selle!http://www.arvutikeskus.ee/index.php?pid=0&id=11&menyy_id=11&action=look&lookid=65553
mul oli endal 7600GT ja uuendasin HD4850 peale ja olen väga rahul!!!!!


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## Mustkunstn1k (Jan 16, 2009)

BarbaricSoul said:


> hi Mustkunstn1k.
> 
> To answer your question about OC'ing, is it neccasary? No, not really.Does it help with gaming performance, most definently. Easiest way I can explain this is, take your 2 1/2 year old 1.8 dual core cpu, OC it to 3 gigs(this may be farther than you'll be able to acheive) and your 1.8 dual core is running at the same speed as my $165 higher end E8400 dual core cpu at stock speeds.
> 
> ...


Well, as i understand i need to buy a cooler? 1.8->3.0 would be pretty awesome. Specially that it's two cores, if it means soemthing.. And do i OC both Mobo and CPU or just CPU?

I found that coolers are sold, but first i would prolly have to choose what kind..

AMD Socket A
AMD Socket 754
AMD Socket 939
AMD Socket 940
AMD Socket AM2
Intel Socket 370
Intel Socket 423
Intel Socket 478
Intel Socket 775
Intel Socket 603
Intel Socket 604



AltecV1 said:


> Sa võiksid videokaardiks valida selle!http://www.arvutikeskus.ee/index.php?pid=0&id=11&menyy_id=11&action=look&lookid=65553
> mul oli endal 7600GT ja uuendasin HD4850 peale ja olen väga rahul!!!!!


Ainult 512mb.. Ma vaatan rohkem 1GB poole.


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## BarbaricSoul (Jan 16, 2009)

You need a socket 775 compatable heatsink for your current system. After you pick one out, before buying it, I suggest you ask us about the model and brand on heatsink you pick. 




Mustkunstn1k said:


> Well, as i understand i need to buy a cooler? 1.8->3.0 would be pretty awesome. Specially that it's two cores, if it means soemthing.. And do i OC both Mobo and CPU or just CPU?
> 
> I found that coolers are sold, but first i would prolly have to choose what kind..
> 
> ...


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## Binge (Jan 16, 2009)

PCpraiser100 said:


> For folding, use a GTX 280. For gaming, rock it with the HD 4870X2. You might need a new board.



For folding get a GTX280.  For gaming get a GTX280. lol I'm never going back to red after the 4870 series.  4850s aren't so bad but they need to optimize the usage of DDR5 in the 4870/4870x2.


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## Mustkunstn1k (Jan 16, 2009)

BarbaricSoul - But still, do i need it to overlock it a little bit (so it wouldn't be a bottleneck)?

Binge - What does foldig actually mean (i know what it means if your talking about folding paper or something). And i think GTX280 is too expensive.


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## silkstone (Jan 17, 2009)

Folding is a program - It stresses the CPU and Graphics card - Kinda like SETI@HOME which searches for aliens but folding for the GPU and i think it maps DNA.

RE: your previous question, you Overclock the CPU not the motherboard.
You do this by increasing the FSB (Front side bus) frequency - The settings for this are in the bios (press del when you turn on your computer).
It's very easy to do. You need to find the setting  (Ask us) and the increase the frequency from 200 to 250mhz (for a 25% overclock) or 200 to 300mhz for a 50% overclock, and so on.
You may also increase the voltage, but not too much, and you really should get a new heatsink (cpu fan) anything with a 120mm fan attached should be good to go, but ask here first.


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## Mustkunstn1k (Jan 17, 2009)

silkstone said:


> Folding is a program - It stresses the CPU and Graphics card - Kinda like SETI@HOME which searches for aliens but folding for the GPU and i think it maps DNA.
> 
> RE: your previous question, you Overclock the CPU not the motherboard.
> You do this by increasing the FSB (Front side bus) frequency - The settings for this are in the bios (press del when you turn on your computer).
> ...


And what do you really good you get from folding? I'll also check out the fan thing then.


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## crazy pyro (Jan 17, 2009)

The point of it is that you're aiding research into diseases caused by the misfolding of proteins, these diseases also include cancers, can't remember other diseases. Idea is that you're benefiting the wider world. Quote from folding.stanford.edu
Moreover, when proteins do not fold correctly (i.e. "misfold"), there can be serious consequences, including many well known diseases, such as Alzheimer's, Mad Cow (BSE), CJD, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease, and many Cancers and cancer-related syndromes.


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## Mustkunstn1k (Jan 17, 2009)

Okay. But if i get a new fan do i attach it to the old one or something. Or do i replace it? I'm thinking i will prolly replace it, but what's the point? Stock one is weaker and older (i'm guessing it's not 120 mm then).


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## BarbaricSoul (Jan 17, 2009)

the new heatsink would replace the stock heatsink, you can't use both of them at the sametime.

 A stock heatsink is only adequate for cooling a CPU at stock or close to stock speeds. The aftermarket heatsinks have alot greater cooling efficiency, thus keeps your CPU running cooler, thus allowing it to run harder and still keep cool.


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## BarbaricSoul (Jan 17, 2009)

> BarbaricSoul - But still, do i need it to overlock it a little bit (so it wouldn't be a bottleneck)?


to get a high enough OC to have as little as possible bottleneck, I would recommend getting one. Currently these are about the best heatsinks available today-

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233003

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835154001


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## Mustkunstn1k (Jan 17, 2009)

If i can find any of those here then which one?  The more expensive one seems to be universal, but the cheaper one only goes for my CPU?
Anyway, i'll just think that i'll see how much can i do without the heatsink first.


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## Mustkunstn1k (Jan 23, 2009)

So before i get to all that overclocking i need to choose the version of 1GB 4870.. Here are some links that show what is sold:

Name is in the blue box, price is in EEK and there can be some extra info down too: 

http://www.minupood.ee/product_info.php?cPath=1855_1770_1780&products_id=39759

http://www.minupood.ee/product_info.php?cPath=1855_1770_1780&products_id=40599

http://www.minupood.ee/product_info.php?cPath=1855_1770_1780&products_id=41039

http://www.minupood.ee/product_info.php?cPath=1855_1770_1780&products_id=38757

http://www.minupood.ee/product_info.php?cPath=1855_1770_1780&products_id=38218

Here are also some links (even though it's not English i think you can get how powerful everything is. The price is behind "Hind:" way down").

http://arvutikeskus.ee/index.php?action=look&lookid=71260

http://arvutikeskus.ee/index.php?action=look&lookid=61565

http://arvutikeskus.ee/index.php?action=look&lookid=71701


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## Mustkunstn1k (Feb 7, 2009)

Since i haven't gotten a response i took the time to write them all out. 

Still don't know which one to get.

1GB GDDR5 PCIE16 HD4870/D.SL 11133-04-20R SML *SAPPHIRE* (Mem clock: 1800 MHz
GPU clock: 750 MHz) for *3800.-*

More info: http://www.minupood.ee/product_info.php?cPath=1855_1770_1780&products_id=39759 (it's not in English, but i think you guys can make out what the spefications are etc).

---

1GB GDDR5 PCIE16 HD4870/GV-R487D5-1GD *GIGABYTE* (Mem clock: 3600 MHz GPU clock: 750 MHz) for *4100.-*

More info: http://www.minupood.ee/product_info.php?cPath=1855_1770_1780&products_id=41039 (it's not in English, but i think you guys can make out what the spefications are etc).

---

1GB GDDR5 PCIE16 R4870/R4870-T2D1G-OC* MSI* (Mem clock: 3600 MHz GPU clock: 780 MHz) for *4400.-*

More info: http://www.minupood.ee/product_info.php?cPath=1855_1770_1780&products_id=38757 (it's not in English, but i think you guys can make out what the spefications are etc).

---

*ASUSTEK* - gigantic 1gb memory on board with enthusiastic 4 heat-pipe dark knight cooler + hdmi 1.3 output support (CPU clock: 750 mhz  Mem Clock: 3.6 ghz) for *3700.-*

More info: http://www.arvutikeskus.ee/index.php?action=look&lookid=71260 (it's not in English, but i think you guys can make out what the spefications are etc).

---

*CLUB 3D * hd 4870 oc edition (CPU clock: 800 mhz  Mem Clock: 3.7 ghz) for *3800.-*

More info: http://arvutikeskus.ee/index.php?action=look&lookid=61565 (it's not in English, but i think you guys can make out what the spefications are etc).

---

Then there is this one, which seems to be the same MSI one above: http://arvutikeskus.ee/index.php?action=look&lookid=71701 .

---

I'm thinking either the OC edition of *Club3D* or *ASUTEK*...


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## BarbaricSoul (Feb 7, 2009)

I'd get the ASUSTEK. All the cards you listed are capable of running the same clock speeds(some may go alittle higher than the others). ASUS is a good company. Only brand I believe I would pick over ASUS would be EVGA, but they make nvidia cards, not ATI.


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## crazy pyro (Feb 7, 2009)

What about XFX barabaric?


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## Mustkunstn1k (Feb 7, 2009)

crazy pyro said:


> What about XFX barabaric?


That's a version of 4870 1gb ?! Anyway they don't seem to sell them in my country.


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## crazy pyro (Feb 7, 2009)

Ah right, I'm sure they had one listed on scan last time I went to stare at them in desire.
Not very helpful but here's evidence of their existence: http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/1GB-...R5-GPU-750MHz-800-Cores-2x-DL-DVI-I-HDTV-HDCP


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## Mustkunstn1k (Feb 7, 2009)

Hmh, okay - but they still don't sell it here. Anyway about the ASUTEK vs Club3D. I mean i don't know how to overclock and Club3D seems to have higher clock rates, what about that?


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## crazy pyro (Feb 7, 2009)

Overclocking my HD 4850 has been easy as hell, Up the fan speed to 100% (I'm not a silence freak) and then move the sliders up in 20 MHz increments in the overdrive section of CCC, caused no problems for me and it's 100% stable so far, although my card is running very cool at ~23 degrees at idle (it goes up to 30 in warmer weather, depends on the ambient temp in my office.) and 34 while playing TF2 with everything maxed running dual monitors.


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## Mustkunstn1k (Feb 8, 2009)

I actually looked in to some 216, since people say that the GTX 260 SP216 is better than 4870.. What do you think?

ATI ASUTEK 4870 1GB for 3700.-

or

NVIDIA PALIT GTX 260 SP216 PCI-E 896mb for 4000.-

or

CLUB 3D GTX 260 SP216 PCI-E 896 MB GDDR3 for 4200.-

I really don't know how much better the 216 one is, but it costs more and there is less memory (but that prolly doesn't matter anyway).


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## Mustkunstn1k (Feb 9, 2009)

Hey guys. What do you think of this one? Shipping frres are a little high but it is definetly the cheapest one: http://www.pixmania.com/ee/ee/1637125/art/sapphire-technology/radeon-hd-4870-1-gb-gddr5.html

The problem also is that if it's anything like this (but the pictures are different), then it only has 1800 mem clock instead of 3600 of ASUTEK:

http://www.minupood.ee/product_info.php?cPath=1855_1770_1780&products_id=39759


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