# Comparison: Phanteks PH-TC14PE vs LEPA AquaChanger 240



## jordan1794 (Apr 16, 2015)

Hello all!
(Scroll down to bolded text to skip story time)
During a recent venture I decided to overclock my wife's computer, which was my old computer, which was my brother's old computer. Her i7 920 has been a trooper at stock clock of 2.66 Ghz, but just wasn't cutting it anymore.
I did a very mild overclock to 3.0 Ghz, with no voltage increase. This put her temperatures in the mid 80's. Meanwhile my brand new computer was running about the same temperatures with my i7-4790K overclocked to 4.7 Ghz with a Vcore of 1.225 with a Phanteks PH-TC14PE. 
I decided to swap my cooler to her system, and buy a liquid cooler.
You can see my original post here:

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/suggestions-for-liquid-cooling.211300/

*Anyways,to the important stuff.*
Firstly, the technical specifications(At least, the three things I care to list, you can google if you want more )
*Phanteks PH-TC14PE*
Noise: 20 dB (Mine was slightly noisier, as I was running 3 fans on it)
Price: *$95 (Can usually be found on "sale" for $60-$75)*
Fan CFM: 78.1(with a 3 fan set-up I'm sure I was getting more, but it's hard to say how much)

*LEPA AquaChanger 240*
Noise: 35 dB
Price: *$95 (Can usually be found on "sale" for $60-$75)*
Fan CFM: 103 (2 fans on a rad. side by side means effectively 206 CFM of cooling)

Temperature performance:
I'm not a scientist, so my exact ambient temperatures are not recorded...sorry.
(Although I can guarantee the Phanteks was tested with an ambient temperature that was *LOWER* by 2-5 degrees than the LEPA was tested at.)
i7 4790K Overclocked to 4.7 Ghz, Vcore of 1.225

Phanteks:
Core 0 = 82
Core 1 = 84
Core 2 = 84
Core 3 = 75

LEPA:
Core 0 = 73
Core 1 = 75
Core 2 = 74
Core 3 = 67

Average Difference = 9 Degrees Lower

Comparison:
(Caution, opinions ahead!)

*Noise*

Idle: The Phanteks always had a slight breeze sound, but was not audible unless I had everything else turned off (TV, music, my house's central air, etc.).
By comparison, when I first turned on my computer after installing the LEPA the fans spun up, then went to idle and I honestly thought that thing had stopped working, despite being inches from it...I had to stick my hand under the fan to feel the air blowing before I was convinced it was still running...this thing is whisper quite under no/light load.

Load: The Phanteks was quite audible when at load, but was not too loud, my graphics card (EVGA GTX 980 SC w/ ACX 2.0 cooling) easily drowned it out, and it could barely be heard over my central air when it was on. 

The LEPA on the other hand...well...I mean...it is loud. It's easily bare-able though, I don't mind it as I know the only time I'm really going to hear it spun up that fast is during stress testing. You can see between the specifications that the LEPA fans are rated to be 57% louder, so what can you expect? I definitely would not suggest against it because of the noise...as stated prior, the idle and light load noise is not even audible.

*Price*
Price is completely negligible, you can get either of these cooling solutions for the same price, and depending on when you want to purchase/how long you are willing to wait for a sale you can get them for around $60

*Performance*
You can see from my temperatures that the LEPA is better. I guess your determination will be based upon the noise to performance ratio, as the price point is quite literally the same. Again, the LEPA is louder, but in my opinion the 9 degree drop in temperatures is well worth it, especially given that you won't be hearing the full force of this cooler unless you are stress testing.


Also, in case anyone is interested, installing the Phanteks cooler on my wife's i7 920 took her overclocked temperatures from 85 to 65. The Phanteks cooler is EXCELLENT for air, but the LEPA just beats it. I guess it comes down to a few factors that work against the Phanteks.

1.The Phanteks fans are lined up, although it does have 2 large heatsinks, the fans are still only able to push somewhere around 80-90 CFM. By comparison, the rad. on the LEPA fits the two fans side by side, effectively doubling it's cooling potential, plus the fans have a higher output.

2. Liquid cooling it inherently more efficient than air cooling.(AFAIK)



Questions, comments, concerns, corrections? Let me know!
I'll be working with this set-up to improve my temperatures further.
Currently using the third Phanteks fan as a case fan to help exhaust the massive intake from the rad, and I don't think it's running at max speed.


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Apr 16, 2015)

We want pics, we want pics,


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## jordan1794 (Apr 16, 2015)

Alright, give me a few.


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## jordan1794 (Apr 16, 2015)

Firstly, a picture of the old set-up(unfortunately without the third fan)






Next, pictures with the new cooler:


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Apr 16, 2015)

ooohhhh  that looks nice.


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## krusha03 (Apr 16, 2015)

Glad to hear you are happy with the LEPA  And it sure looks nice. The fans you can always change to different ones but I personally like fans with wide RPM range so I set them to what i need


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## Devon68 (Apr 16, 2015)

How are the wife's temps with the Phanteks cooler?
Edit: I am the one that voted phanteks and it's not because I think it is better, I just dont trust all in one coolers.


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## jordan1794 (Apr 16, 2015)

Devon68 said:


> How are the wife's temps with the Phanteks cooler?


From the OP:

"Also, in case anyone is interested, installing the Phanteks cooler on my wife's i7 920 took her overclocked temperatures from 85 to 65. The Phanteks cooler is EXCELLENT for air, but the LEPA just beats it. I guess it comes down to a few factors that work against the Phanteks."

It's ok, I know I wrote a wall of words, and there are a lot of things that are probably not needed haha.


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## Devon68 (Apr 16, 2015)

> From the OP:


My bad I thought those were the temps from your 4790k


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## jordan1794 (Apr 16, 2015)

krusha03 said:


> Glad to hear you are happy with the LEPA  And it sure looks nice. The fans you can always change to different ones but I personally like fans with wide RPM range so I set them to what i need


Yeah, I'm happy with the LEPA fans. Fan noise just does not bother me at all, maybe it's because my wife and I game downstairs, where the tv is usually on, as well as my central air intake right near us, as well as my cats constantly running around and doing random things.

*It could probably be argued* that the LEPA fans are making the difference, but I guess that comes down to a measure of CFM that the Phanteks was pushing with the 3 fans, which I do not have the equipment to measure. Regardless, being that the two are the same price I don't see a reason for someone to purchase the Phanteks, as long as they don't mind a little fan noise.

Furthermore, the actual price of my Phanteks was around 100$, as I had to purchase the third fan separately.


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## m0nt3 (Apr 16, 2015)

I went Phanteks, mostly because I heard of pump failures (not with any particular model, just in general). There isn't enough surface area to dissipate heat if the pump failed causing it to reach shutdown temp. The Phanteks can have the fans die and be OK as long as its not being stressed, and since I leave mine on, I feel safer with air.


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## jordan1794 (Apr 16, 2015)

m0nt3 said:


> I went Phanteks, mostly because I heard of pump failures (not with any particular model, just in general). There isn't enough surface area to dissipate heat if the pump failed causing it to reach shutdown temp. The Phanteks can have the fans die and be OK as long as its not being stressed, and since I leave mine on, I feel safer with air.


A fair argument, but so long as your processor does what it's supposed to it will shut down, pretty much immediately. While damage can be done without a heat sink attached, due to temperatures exceeding 100 before the processor can even shut-down, I *think* the thick metal plate, along with the liquid behind it, would be enough to keep damage from being done. I think the processor would have enough time to shut-down once it reached 90-100 degrees without going over. I'm no expert though, it'd be interesting to test the theory.
If it weren't such a hassle I'd hook it up to a really old computer I have sitting around without the pump on and see what happens.

It's worth mentioning the LEPA does have a 2 year warranty.


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## buildzoid (Apr 16, 2015)

I have a PH-TC14PE on my FX6350 rig. I wasn't pleased with the cooling since it could only handle 1.475V core. I strapped some 3K noctua fans to it and now it can handle 1.55V even with reduced fans speeds and 1.65V at full 3K. I really wish aircoolers came with more powerful fans.


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## m0nt3 (Apr 16, 2015)

buildzoid said:


> I have a PH-TC14PE on my FX6350 rig. I wasn't pleased with the cooling since it could only handle 1.475V core. I strapped some 3K noctua fans to it and now it can handle 1.55V even with reduced fans speeds and 1.65V at full 3K. I really wish aircoolers came with more powerful fans.



Mine about 1.4V after that the socket temp starts to ramp past 72C under prime95. Core temp will fine, my socket temp is usually about 15C higher than core. By 3K noctua fans, do you mean 3000 RPM?. Bet that makes a nice humm noise.


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## buildzoid (Apr 16, 2015)

m0nt3 said:


> Mine about 1.4V after that the socket temp starts to ramp past 72C under prime95. Core temp will fine, my socket temp is usually about 15C higher than core. By 3K noctua fans, do you mean 3000 RPM?. Bet that makes a nice humm noise.


Yeah 3000 RPM. They get the PC all the way up to 55dB(in my chair) when I run them at full speed. I bought a cheap fan controller for them and I run them at what I believe is about 2000RPM but their still really loud at that point even when compared to my main machine which runs a mix of 2000 1850 and 2400 RPM fans.


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## jordan1794 (Apr 16, 2015)

What do you guys think.
I thought I needed to remove my two 200mm fans from the top of my case to mount the rad. but it turns out I didn't, as the rad mounted on the bottom side.
Would I get better temps with the fans replaced?
I'll probably try it out.


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## m0nt3 (Apr 16, 2015)

Ideally get two more identical fans for a push/pull config on the radiator.


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## jordan1794 (Apr 17, 2015)

Temperatures stayed the same, I know that the two 200mm fans have a slightly higher output than the LEPA fans (should be 106 CFM)
I wanted to add 2 more fans of the same kind, but LEPA doesn't sell them by themselves(as far as I've been able to find)

I'll probably leave the 200mms on though, as I don't have any other use for them and it did slightly lower my idle temperatures.


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## jordan1794 (Apr 17, 2015)

Devon68 said:


> How are the wife's temps with the Phanteks cooler?
> Edit: I am the one that voted phanteks and it's not because I think it is better, I just dont trust all in one coolers.


You aren't alone anymore haha!
In fact, you have just as many fellow voters as I do at this point.


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## R-T-B (Apr 17, 2015)

I have that Phanteks.  It's awesome.  No, it won't beat water but it also won't burn out on me and be unable to cool like a watercooling pump going out.

I voted for it for that reason alone.


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## jordan1794 (Apr 17, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> I have that Phanteks.  It's awesome.  No, it won't beat water but it also won't burn out on me and be unable to cool like a watercooling pump going out.
> 
> I voted for it for that reason alone.


Pump is rated for 50,000 hours. Which is nearly 6 years assuming 24/7 usage.
In 6 years I'll be ready to buy a new cooler.

Not saying your point isn't valid, it certainly is something to consider when making a purchase. I guess it all comes down to risk/reward. The risk is somewhat small, and so is the reward haha.


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## R-T-B (Apr 17, 2015)

jordan1794 said:


> Pump is rated for 50,000 hours. Which is nearly 6 years assuming 24/7 usage.
> In 6 years I'll be ready to buy a new cooler.
> 
> Not saying your point isn't valid, it certainly is something to consider when making a purchase. I guess it all comes down to risk/reward. The risk is somewhat small, and so is the reward haha.



Oh I understand completely.  I am just paranoid personally about MTBF figures on pumps...  had a bad experience years back. 

It means I'm pretty biased.


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## jordan1794 (Apr 17, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> Oh I understand completely.  I am just paranoid personally about MTBF figures on pumps...  had a bad experience years back.
> 
> It means I'm pretty biased.


Well for my situation, if the pump goes out, I can rip the Phanteks back out of my wife's computer and stick the LEPA fans on it lol.
Honestly the cooler master heatsink/fan that I took off of hers was doing a good job, and it was COMPLETELY clogged with dust in the middle. I make a habit of taking an air can to the computers every 3 months or so, but I guess the dust got caught between the fan and heatsink in such a way that I couldn't get it. Perhaps her cooler didn't need replacing after all.
Oh well, I have no regrets.


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## R-T-B (Apr 17, 2015)

jordan1794 said:


> Well for my situation, if the pump goes out, I can rip the Phanteks back out of my wife's computer and stick the LEPA fans on it lol.
> Honestly the cooler master heatsink/fan that I took off of hers was doing a good job, and it was COMPLETELY clogged with dust in the middle. I make a habit of taking an air can to the computers every 3 months or so, but I guess the dust got caught between the fan and heatsink in such a way that I couldn't get it. Perhaps her cooler didn't need replacing after all.
> Oh well, I have no regrets.



No reason to have regrets!  I'd just be watching the temps semi-regularly if I was on water but there's no denying it works awesome and it far quieter.  Also, the odds of it giving you an issue are almost nothing compared to several things we already for the most part accept, such as say an HD failure..  I voted purely based on preference more than logic TBH.


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## doyll (Apr 18, 2015)

I am staying with air .  or go with a good AIO like the Swiftech H220-X or better still the H240-X  ..  as they are not CLC.  Coolant can be topped / changed and components can be replaced as needed.  Pump move way more water than CLC pumps, radiator is copper, etc.  Much better quality and life expectancy .. and they are quiet too.

I'm running 2x PH-TC14PE coolers, with TY-143 fans on the red one.  The TY-143 fans normally stay below 1100rpm, but when testing can reach 2200+ rpm and be rather loud, but give another 5-7c of cooling when needed.  I changed the fans on the black one to TY-147 fans for an all black appearance (with white fan blades).


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## jordan1794 (Apr 18, 2015)

doyll said:


> I'll stay with air or go with a good AIO like the Swiftech H220-X or better still the H240-X  ..  as they are not CLC.  Coolant can be topped / changed and components can be replaced as needed.  Pump move way more water than CLC pumps, radiator is copper, etc.  Much better quality and life expectancy .. and they are quiet too.
> 
> I'm running 2x PH-TC14PE coolers, with TY-143 fans on the red one.  The TY-143 fans normally stay below 1100rpm, but when testing can reach 2200+ rpm and be rather loud, but give another 5-7c of cooling when needed.  I changed the fans on the black one to TY-147 fans for an all black appearance (with white fan blades).



With the $150+ I'd spend on the Swiftech I could buy 2-3 LEPA's.
Jus' Sayin'

Also, I think claiming that a non CLC AIO is a better quality than a CLC AIO is far too wide of a blanket statement...I'm certain there are non-reliable models on both sides, and I'm certain that it comes down to the brand more than the type of cooler.
LEPA is a branch of Enermax, which has been making high end computer parts for quite a while now.
Jus' Sayin'


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## doyll (Apr 18, 2015)

jordan1794 said:


> With the $150+ I'd spend on the Swiftech I could buy 2-3 LEPA's.
> Jus' Sayin'
> 
> Also, I think claiming that a non CLC AIO is a better quality than a CLC AIO is far too wide of a blanket statement...I'm certain there are non-reliable models on both sides, and I'm certain that it comes down to the brand more than the type of cooler.
> ...


Maybe if you studied up on them or tested a few you would know what I'm saying is true.  Jus' Sayin' 
Because anyone who know much about AIO and CLC knows the differences .. just like I posted Jus' Sayin'


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## krusha03 (Apr 18, 2015)

doyll said:


> I am staying with air .  or go with a good AIO like the Swiftech H220-X or better still the H240-X  ..  as they are not CLC.  Coolant can be topped / changed and components can be replaced as needed.  Pump move way more water than CLC pumps, radiator is copper, etc.  Much better quality and life expectancy .. and they are quiet too.
> 
> I'm running 2x PH-TC14PE coolers, with TY-143 fans on the red one.  The TY-143 fans normally stay below 1100rpm, but when testing can reach 2200+ rpm and be rather loud, but give another 5-7c of cooling when needed.  I changed the fans on the black one to TY-147 fans for an all black appearance (with white fan blades).


I have the TY-143 and that fan is a beast. Quiet up till 1200 rpms but cools like crazy at 2200-2300rpm. The swiftech is a great cooler but way more expensive and the LEPA gets the job done. Not everyone need or want a full blown water cooling setup


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## doyll (Apr 18, 2015)

krusha03 said:


> I have the TY-143 and that fan is a beast. Quiet up till 1200 rpms but cools like crazy at 2200-2300rpm. The swiftech is a great cooler but way more expensive and the LEPA gets the job done. Not everyone need or want a full blown water cooling setup


I think many are under the misconception that "water cooling" is better than "air cooling" and the simple fact is all but a very few CLCs do as good a job of cooling as top air coolers do, especially when they are kept below 40dBA .. the highest noise level most of use find acceptable.   To match or exceed top air cooling, all but a very few CLCs are 50-65dBA ..  twice to 8 times as loud as top air coolers . and acceptable noise level.  Changing the CLC's fans will quiet them down, but it also lowers their cooling ability .. and also increases the cost involved.   There is also the problem of CLC pumps only being barely able to move enough coolant when new .. and pump flow rates decrease with time and lower their cooling ability.   As heatpipes do not degrade with use, an 6 year old air cooler still cools as well as a new one.


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## jordan1794 (Apr 19, 2015)

The LEPA actually dropped my temperatures 10 degrees over one of, if not *the best air cooler* on the market, for the same price.
(Actually lower, because I had to buy a third fan for the Phanteks)

I could slap some tubes together and sell it as a cooling loop kit and it won't be as good as a CLC. In fact, it would probably make your computer explode because I don't know what I'm doing.

I guarantee a Corsair or LEPA CLC is more reliable than a cheapo AIO kit cooler.
Which the Swiftech is definitely not, it's obviously a fine kit of good/great build quality...but as with all things, you pay for it...
With the price difference, even if I get 3 bottom of the bin pumps that all fail in 1/2 the rated lifespan of 6 years(50,000 hours, 24/7 usage) I would still have 9 years before I'd spend the same amount of money on the Swiftech.

In 9 years I imagine we will finally have graphene heat sinks and the air vs. water won't be a debate until we start running chips at 10-15 Ghz and are comparing graphene radiators vs. graphene heatsinks LOL

The LEPA keeps my i7 4790k overclocked to 4.8 Ghz at 80 C or under, and the i7 is a VERY hot chip, I can't imagine a regular person needing anything better unless they are pumping crazy voltage.


The "jus' sayin'" I added more as a sign that I was not taking the topic too seriously/personally, but I think you mistook my meaning(which is easy to do, tones don't travel through the internet very well)
My apologies that it came across the wrong way :/
However, don't assume I didn't do research just because we have differing opinions, that's very short-sighted...I don't make impulse buys, and I did plenty of research before choosing...I tend to go overboard and spend all day/night researching something before I even consider making a purchase.
(Actually causes problems with my wife sometimes haha)


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## doyll (Apr 19, 2015)

jordan1794 said:


> The LEPA actually dropped my temperatures 10 degrees over one of, if not *the best air cooler* on the market, for the same price.


 If your LEPA is giving 10c better temps than PH-TC14PE, there is more going on that is changed the CPU temp than the differences in cooling ability. 



jordan1794 said:


> I could slap some tubes together and sell it as a cooling loop kit and it won't be as good as a CLC. In fact, it would probably make your computer explode because I don't know what I'm doing.


Yes, you "could slap some tubes together and sell it" but it would not be a commercially available water cooling kit .. "Gasping for excuses" comes to mind.  



jordan1794 said:


> I guarantee a Corsair or LEPA CLC is more reliable than a cheapo AIO kit cooler.


What is this "cheapo AIO kit cooler" you refer to? 



jordan1794 said:


> With the price difference, even if I get 3 bottom of the bin pumps that all fail in 1/2 the rated lifespan of 6 years(50,000 hours, 24/7 usage) I would still have 9 years before I'd spend the same amount of money on the Swiftech.
> 
> In 9 years I imagine we will finally have graphene heat sinks and the air vs. water won't be a debate until we start running chips at 10-15 Ghz and are comparing graphene radiators vs. graphene heatsinks LOL


It isn't just pump failure, but also pump wear and reduction in flow.  Add to this not being able to top up coolant as it evaporates out of system .. and some does leave a sealed system.   Also, pumps can fail in minutes, weeks, months or years.  Fact is CLC pumps fail at a much higher rate than heat pipes or systems like Swiftech.

It will definitely be interesting to see what we will be using in 9 years.  They say scientific output doubles every 9 years.  Look at how computers have changed in the last 9, or 18, or 27 years.  



jordan1794 said:


> The "jus' sayin'" I added more as a sign that I was not taking the topic too seriously/personally, but I think you mistook my meaning(which is easy to do, tones don't travel through the internet very well)
> My apologies that it came across the wrong way :/
> However, don't assume I didn't do research just because we have differing opinions, that's very short-sighted...I don't make impulse buys, and I did plenty of research before choosing...I tend to go overboard and spend all day/night researching something before I even consider making a purchase.
> (Actually causes problems with my wife sometimes haha)


I took the "jus' sayin' " as a joke, and replied in same.  No apology needed.  But maybe I should apologize for the "not researching" bit.  CLC reviews started out hyping them as a gift from the Gods when in fact many were the Devils own work. Test results were (some still are) snake-oil, smoke & mirrors. Problem is there are very few reviewers who do accurate testing.  Biggest single problem is using room ambient instead of the air temp going into cooler or radiator.   And we get things like your "10c better cooling" statement above.  

There are few reviews out for the LEPA, but here's one on an AMD  






Now if we look at hardwareoverclock.com/CoolIT_VANTAGE_Advanced_Liquid_Cooling review it shows 
NH-D14 at 55c
Vantage at 64c​If these temps are accurate and we can safely assume the NH-D14 is not as good as the PH-TC14PE, than the LEPA's cooling is at or below the 14PE.  

Here is the Vantage again being out-perfomed by air, and not even one of the best air coolers either.






Here is LEPA only 2c better than NH-D15 at full speed, but 2c warmer at 1500rpm .. and nothing is said about what the cooler intake air temp is here either. 





This all leads me to believe the LEPA has similar cooling ability to the PH-TC14PE, not 9c better as you recorded. 

Bottom line is you are happy with your results in your system.


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## jordan1794 (Apr 19, 2015)

Something is wrong with your logic here, you are assuming I did not test accurately.

I consistently recorded temperatures of 85 degrees while using my Phanteks.
I even tried re-applying my thermal paste and my temperatures didn't change.
Most of my tests with the Phanteks were run at night, when my house sits at around 20 degrees.


I swapped to the LEPA and, without a single change in my BIOS, immediately saw max temperatures of around 75.
And I tested the LEPA during the day, when my house is around 22 degrees
However my temperature aren't recorded, so I gave the Phanteks the benefit of the doubt. Even with that benefit the LEPA outperformed by 9 degrees, and I was able to push my overclocked to 4.8 Ghz and a higher vcore and still had temperatures under the temperatures I had on my Phanteks with a 4.7 Ghz overclock.

In fact, the temperature I was getting at 4.7 Ghz overclock with the LEPA was LOWER than what I was getting at stock settings on the Phanteks.
I even tested the LEPA 3 times throughout the day to make sure there wasn't some massive temperature discrepancy within my house.
(And a 4th test after I replaced the 200mm fans that I had removed in order to get the radiator installed)


I even tried previously to change the directions of the fans in my case with the Phanteks.

Here are screenshots of my spreadsheets:
Fan set-up testing with the Phanteks:



I can even post the raw data page, albeit it's very confusing to someone that's not in my head


Overclock testing:







Please tell me what factors could have possibly changed to cause my 9 degree change?
Just a refresher on the facts:
1. Thermal paste is the same, and both coolers had the luxury of my applying it twice to make sure it was correct(and neither time did the reapplication make a significant difference in temperatures)
2. All the fans are facing the same direction, before and after I changed the cooler;In fact, the LEPA ran it's first three tests without my 109 CFM 200mm top fans in place, however replacing them did not change the load temp(but did drop idle temp)

EDIT: I love debates, and I'm truly curious to find out why my results are so far off from what your deductions are, I've always wanted to be an engineer and that's currently what I'm going to college for so it's kind of my passion to test things.
I'm not trying to come across as defensive and whatnot, I just really want to come to a solution to explain the difference, if one exists beyond the LEPA just having more cooling ability.


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## jordan1794 (Apr 19, 2015)

doyll said:


> It will definitely be interesting to see what we will be using in 9 years.  They say scientific output doubles every 9 years.  Look at how computers have changed in the last 9, or 18, or 27 years.



Definitely, I remember my family's first computer running windows ME and taking about 30 minutes to restart haha.
Now I have a computer that restarts in about 15-20 seconds.


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## doyll (Apr 19, 2015)

I'm not assuming anything.  I'm simply pointing out that your 9c difference seems to be an anomaly.  Even direct testing of LEPA against NH-D15 only shows 2c difference compared to your 9c (last graph I posted). In my own testing I see 1-2c variance between NH-D15, R1 Ultimate, PH-TC14PE & Silver Arrow IB-E.  Based on 1-2 difference in reading and +/-2 margin of error I call them all cooling equally. ( We could add TRUE Spirit 140 Power, TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A, Archon IB-E, R1 Universal and a few others that are only 1-2c below the very best.)    

Most likely the difference is in the air temperature going into your Phanteks vs the air temperature going into your LEPA.  The Phanteks was discharging it's heat into case while the LEPA is adding 2x exhaust from case .. assuming you have it setup as exhaust.  This temperature difference is the single biggest problem with most cooler testing.  Using room ambient is all fine and good for a system test comparison, but it does not give accurate data for cooler comparisons.  And it's easy to remove the system cooler intake air temperature from the comparison by monitoring cooler / radiator intake air temp.  After all, every degree change in cooler / radiator intake equates to a degree difference in CPU temp. I badger every reviewer I know of on this subject.  Slowly but surely I'm seeing more and more testing with cooler intake air temps being used. 

My first computer was a commodore 64.


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## jordan1794 (Apr 19, 2015)

doyll said:


> I'm not assuming anything.  I'm simply pointing out that your 9c difference seems to be an anomaly.  Even direct testing of LEPA against NH-D15 only shows 2c difference compared to your 9c (last graph I posted). In my own testing I see 1-2c variance between NH-D15, R1 Ultimate, PH-TC14PE & Silver Arrow IB-E.  Based on 1-2 difference in reading and +/-2 margin of error I call them all cooling equally. ( We could add TRUE Spirit 140 Power, TRUE Spirit 140 rev.A, Archon IB-E, R1 Universal and a few others that are only 1-2c below the very best.)
> 
> Most likely the difference is in the air temperature going into your Phanteks vs the air temperature going into your LEPA.  The Phanteks was discharging it's heat into case while the LEPA is adding 2x exhaust from case .. assuming you have it setup as exhaust.  This temperature difference is the single biggest problem with most cooler testing.  Using room ambient is all fine and good for a system test comparison, but it does not give accurate data for cooler comparisons.  And it's easy to remove the system cooler intake air temperature from the comparison by monitoring cooler / radiator intake air temp.  After all, every degree change in cooler / radiator intake equates to a degree difference in CPU temp. I badger every reviewer I know of on this subject.  Slowly but surely I'm seeing more and more testing with cooler intake air temps being used.
> 
> My first computer was a commodore 64.



My LEPA I planned on using as an exhaust, as it is top mounted and obviously heat rises...but the directions stated to use is as intake instead(even with the picture showing it top mounted)
I read up and there appears to be a consensus that, as long as you have good exhaust elsewhere, it's more important for the radiator to be getting fresh air from outside the case, even if you are fighting physics with the heat trying to rise.
So that's how I have it positioned.
(Will probably swap it at some point just to check;however if I do swap then I will need to change my other fans to be intakes instead of exhausts)

As for the Phanteks, while it was taking air from inside the case the air it was pulling was from the front of my case, and there are no components to create heat in the way. I can't imagine why the intake temperature would be different by more than 1 degree or so. I have two intake fans on the front(one is 120mm and the other is 100mm I think) as well as my two top 200mm exhausting 109 CFM each.

It makes me wonder how the testing was done in the graphs your posted, was it table top with just a mobo and cooler? Or was it a real world in case test? I tried searching around the sites you linked but I can't find the articles. Would help if I was bilingual .

Obviously a table top gives a "true" measure of the coolers ability, but leaves a lot of room for question as a certain cooler may not work as well in a given case. Perhaps the LEPA just works out really well for my case? It is worth noting that the Phanteks' last fan was only around 1 inch from the grill on the back of my case (in fact, I removed the exhaust fan and moved it to the front of the case, hence the 100mm intake mentioned above)
Before I moved the exhaust fan there was only around 1/4 inch between the third fan and the exhaust fan.

Looking back at the set-up, I learned through research that fans generally push the air away at a 45 degree angle from the blade. I have a GTX 980 and the Phanteks cooler was only around an inch away from that, that means that quite a bit of air on the bottom of the fans that would normally be dissipated into the case was trapped "bouncing" between the GPU and the heatsink.
Perhaps, just a thought...could be completely wrong.

The more I think about it, the more I think it's probably going to come down to the precise set-up of my case and it's components.
Thoughts? I'm having quite a bit of fun with this.


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## jordan1794 (Apr 19, 2015)

Swapped all my fans and saw a 2 degree drop across the board(from a test run less than 5 minutes prior)
May or may not be better, but it's too much of a hassle to put it back seeing as how, worst case scenario, it did nothing.


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## doyll (Apr 20, 2015)

I suspect your having the radiator as an intake is a significant part of the temperature difference.  Cooler intake temps of 5-10c above room ambient are very common and 10-15c above room are not at all uncommon. .  Cooler intake temps of less then 5c above ambient usually require some extra effort.

Basic system cooling theory is to flow cool air into case to components and flow their heated air out of case with as little of the heated air mixing with cool intake air as possible.  Using a radiator as intake in an air cooled system goes against this precept .. but on a completely water cooled system it is fine .. as long as the intkae airflow has matching exhaust area and unrestricted flow.  We need to keep in mind that a case will only flow the lessor of intake or exhaust area & flow.  What comes in must go out .. or .. what goes out must come in.  If it did not the case would either expand or contract like a balloon.   The only systems I've seen that were truely designed around airflow are like the Power Mac G5





Your 980 is rated 165w TDP and is discharging heated air throughout your case.  Top fans as exhaust would be drawing this headed air up around the Phanteks.   Sadly most cases are not designed for today's high wattage GPUs.  The lower front to upper back airflow pattern was originally used when GPUs generated almost no heat. Now GPU generated more heat than CPUs and dump their heated exhaust everywhere inside the case .. similar to downflow / pancake CPU coolers .. ot designed with airflow / case cooling in mind and making it near impossible to keep the heated exhaust from contaminating cool intake air.  Add to this the heat from HDDs, motherboard chips, etc. and you can see there is little chance of air inside a case being the same temp as air in the room.


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## jordan1794 (Apr 20, 2015)

Well when my stress tests run my GPU isn't producing any significant heat, also I swapped my fan directions and now have the rad as an exhaust. I saw a 2 degree drop, which is negligable, but it's not worse so I'm not going through the trouble of putting it back lol.


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## doyll (Apr 20, 2015)

I understand.  Just mentioned it for conversation. 

I keep playing with the idea of getting a G5 case and modding it to use conventional hardware, but it would be a lot of work.


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