# HD4850 CF vs PNY 9800 GX2



## Chouf (Nov 23, 2008)

Hi guys,

I recently bought two *ATI 4850 running in crossfire*.
So far I'm happy with the perfs of these cards except the fact they heat like hell, but for the rest, all is well.

Five months ago my company organized a PC plan and I ordered a *PNY Nvidia 9800 GX2 1Gb DDR3* at the time. (in the meantime I bought the 4850s as I couldn't resist )

Now I have the 4850s setup in my case and the 9800 GX2 in the box. I was wondering *which card to choose*?. Will the 9800 GX2 provide me good perfs in games too?

I found some comparisons between the cards (here: http://www.pcvsconsole.com/features/video/ and here: http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/.../compare,794.html?prod[2115]=on&prod[2063]=on), some scores are higher some are lower. Considering the 9800 GX2 alone seem to do the job as well as the 4850s in CF I'm tempted to switch (also because it'll require less power and heat less).

Here's my full specs:

Case : Coolermaster Cosmos 100
MB: Asus P5E3 Deluxe
RAM: 4 x 1Gb DDR3-SDRAM PC10600
CPU: E8400

Any advice?

Chouf


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## Binge (Nov 23, 2008)

9800x2 FTW 

Check out Solaris's results


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## erocker (Nov 23, 2008)

I think Solaris is using two 9800gx2's.  You should try both setups out for yourself and see what you like better.


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## mullered07 (Nov 23, 2008)

i have no heat issues with my 4850s (one is reference cooler and the other is a custom msi cooler) power draw is also not too bad, check my psu in my specs and all my games run fine with ease, although this is going to be upgraded next (just to be sure) 

what coolers you running on them and do you have a ccc profile for fan speeds when ur gaming ?


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## Chouf (Nov 23, 2008)

hi and thanks for your super fast answers ;-)

I have no extra coolers on the 4850s, just the out of the box Sapphire ones.

@erocker, thanks for the tip, but that's what I want to avoid
@mullered, I do not have any CCC profile because the CCC doesn't load anymore. I've tried so many things to fix this issue but I can get it resolved. Drivers are installed, ATI reports installation as successful but Control Center won't open (even thought ccc.exe is running), as far as I can see on the ATI forum, I'm not the only one experiencing this issue.

Anyway, back to the main question, the heat is ok-ish, but doesn't give me any issue. The only point I'm a bit worried is that I have the impression it heats up t whole case and my MB is around 52°C when gamib, which is already high....

So do u guys agree with binge? 9800x2 wins ?


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## mullered07 (Nov 23, 2008)

i think you have a driver issue with the 4850's first and foremost, i have had a few myself with cf but when i got it working its working like a charm, i would suggest following the cf setup guide in the graphics card ati sub forum 

i am so happy with my cf performance, i havent been this happy about a graphics card/s since i upgraded from a x1600pro to a x1950pro (shit hot card at the time might i add). 

ive had minimal trouble with drivers and the only one that springs to mind is when i would get bsod's when enabling cf, no matter which drivers i tried. needless to say plugging the pcie power connector into card No.2 resolved the matter 

tbh i cant see there being any NOTICEABLE difference in any of the setups whilst gaming fact, i suppose it comes down to what you prefer and what yields the highest 3dmark scores if your a bencher.


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## JrRacinFan (Nov 23, 2008)

@chouf

Regarding CCC not launching. May need to instal .NET 2.0.


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## mullered07 (Nov 23, 2008)

JrRacinFan said:


> @chouf
> 
> Regarding CCC not launching. May need to instal .NET 2.0.



it auto installs with cats anyway.


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## Jeffredo (Nov 23, 2008)

erocker said:


> I think Solaris is using two 9800gx2's.  You should try both setups out for yourself and see what you like better.



Yeah, if you have both options available spend a day switching and benchmarking with your favorite games.  Best way to find out.


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## erocker (Nov 23, 2008)

Chouf said:


> So do u guys agree with binge? 9800x2 wins ?



Not really.  The 4850 xfire setup should be faster.  However there are always some programs that will work better with one setup over the other, that's why I advised to try both setups out.


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## JrRacinFan (Nov 23, 2008)

mullered07 said:


> it auto installs with cats anyway.



Since when? Which Catalyst package? The 8.10 Windows XP package I downloaded from ATi's site did not include it.

Oh and chouf, 4850's in crossfire.  My reason: drivers are still maturing.


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## wolf (Nov 23, 2008)

personally, i would go the 9800GX2, you wont get much for selling that, but you could probably part with yours 4850's for near what you payed.


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## mullered07 (Nov 24, 2008)

JrRacinFan said:


> Since when? Which Catalyst package? The 8.10 Windows XP package I downloaded from ATi's site did not include it.
> 
> Oh and chouf, 4850's in crossfire.  My reason: drivers are still maturing.



well ive never had to install a seperate installation of .NET it always seems to do that with the drivers??


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## wolf (Nov 24, 2008)

JrRacinFan said:


> My reason: drivers are still maturing.



notice also an 8800GTX still has drivers that are getting better and better, where does one draw the line.

also, i swear i hear mostly ATi fans using "maturing drivers" as good reason to get an ATi card....

(please, not trying to insight a flame/fanboy war, just an opinion)


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## Jeffredo (Nov 24, 2008)

Here's another review from August.  Looks like they trade blows depending on the resolution and the game.  They do at most use 4X AA with 16X AF in their testing.  Would be interested to see the results with the new Nvidia 180.48 drivers.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/sapphire-radeon-hd4850-cf.html

If they turn out to be more or less equal I've always had a soft spot for the 9800 GX2.  Its such a  behemoth!  Almost bought one instead of my GTX 260 - it was slightly less at the time in price.


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## 3870x2 (Nov 24, 2008)

Jeffredo said:


> Here's another review from August.  Looks like they trade blows depending on the resolution and the game.  They do at most use 4X AA with 16X AF in their testing.  Would be interested to see the results with the new Nvidia 180.48 drivers.
> 
> http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/sapphire-radeon-hd4850-cf.html
> 
> If they turn out to be more or less equal I've always had a soft spot for the 9800 GX2.  Its such a  behemoth!  Almost bought one instead of my GTX 260 - it was slightly less at the time in price.



by this review the 9800GX2 wins hands down.  I would go with the GX2, if you ever need power in the future, just add another card, and you have 3-way sli with 2 cards.


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## mullered07 (Nov 24, 2008)

3870x2 said:


> by this review the 9800GX2 wins hands down.  I would go with the GX2, if you ever need power in the future, just add another card, and you have 3-way sli with 2 cards.



not without a new motherboard he wont


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## wolf (Nov 24, 2008)

3870x2 said:


> by this review the 9800GX2 wins hands down.  I would go with the GX2, if you ever need power in the future, just add another card, and you have 3-way sli with 2 cards.



unfortunately that wont work, you need 2 identical cards for SLi to work, ie, 2x9800Gx2


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## ShadowFold (Nov 24, 2008)

HD 4850 crossfire. Better architecture and 4x AA.



3870x2 said:


> by this review the 9800GX2 wins hands down.  I would go with the GX2, if you ever need power in the future, just add another card, and you have 3-way sli with 2 cards.



ATi Xpress Crossfire, thats not old


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## MadClown (Nov 24, 2008)

build a second rig and put one in one rig, and another in the other, there problem solved


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## 3870x2 (Nov 24, 2008)

really, i didnt know that, +1 for cfx.


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## Tatty_One (Nov 24, 2008)

i would go for the GX2....only just, the 4850's are damn fine cards in Xfire, I only said GX2 cause I am getting one this week to play, and less messing with cabling, need 4 cables for the 4850 setup, just 2 for the GX2, if buying, i would say get the cheapest, in my case thats the GX2 as I can get them new for £200 ish.


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## 3870x2 (Nov 24, 2008)

Also, the 9800GX2 looks damned beautiful in the case, and is easily the best looking card in the market (EVGA)


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## PCpraiser100 (Nov 24, 2008)

For AA, HD 4850. For high res, 9800 GX2s.


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## spearman914 (Nov 24, 2008)

9800GX2 pwns the 4850. But 2 x 4850 CF is more worth it.


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## Binge (Nov 24, 2008)

o rly spearman??? O RLY???


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## TRIPTEX_CAN (Nov 24, 2008)

Jeffredo said:


> Here's another review from August.  Looks like they trade blows depending on the resolution and the game.  They do at most use 4X AA with 16X AF in their testing.  Would be interested to see the results with the new Nvidia 180.48 drivers.
> 
> http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/sapphire-radeon-hd4850-cf.html
> 
> If they turn out to be more or less equal I've always had a soft spot for the 9800 GX2.  Its such a  behemoth!  Almost bought one instead of my GTX 260 - it was slightly less at the time in price.



This review is complete crap. Seriously in his "results" for COD4 the 4850s aren't even scaling (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/sapphire-radeon-hd4850-cf_5.html#sect1) :shadedshu


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## Maelstrom (Nov 24, 2008)

Tatty_One said:


> need 4 cables for the 4850 setup, just 2 for the GX2.



4 each 4850 only uses one 6 pin, so he only needs two


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## JrRacinFan (Nov 24, 2008)

wolf said:


> notice also an 8800GTX still has drivers that are getting better and better, where does one draw the line.
> 
> also, i swear i hear mostly ATi fans using "maturing drivers" as good reason to get an ATi card....
> 
> (please, not trying to insight a flame/fanboy war, just an opinion)



I honor your opinion I truly do, but please I am far from fanboy.


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## Jeffredo (Nov 24, 2008)

TRIPTEX_MTL said:


> This review is complete crap. Seriously in his "results" for COD4 the 4850s aren't even scaling (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/sapphire-radeon-hd4850-cf_5.html#sect1) :shadedshu



Playing devil's advocate here, can you provide links to tests where they do?  What is your basis that they should?  That's part of the hazard of CF or SLI (or two GPU single cards).  Sometimes games don't play nice with them.


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## wolf (Nov 24, 2008)

JrRacinFan said:


> I honor your opinion I truly do, but please I am far from fanboy.



believe me when i say i don't think of you as a fanboy at all, in fact i view you as a highly respectable member of TPU.

i apologize for the angle of my comment, but it wasn't directed at you, it just seems that when i comment about ATi, on just about any level, people dive all over that and start a flame war i really don't have the effort or inclination to fight anymore...

anyway my point was, just about every card on the market today has drivers that are getting better and better, lets not base the card choice on what "might" improve.

and again JR apologies, didn't want it to come off that way, we cool?


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## JrRacinFan (Nov 24, 2008)

wolf said:


> believe me when i say i don't think of you as a fanboy at all, in fact i view you as a highly respectable member of TPU.
> 
> i apologize for the angle of my comment, but it wasn't directed at you, it just seems that when i comment about ATi, on just about any level, people dive all over that and start a flame war i really don't have the effort or inclination to fight anymore...
> 
> ...



No need for apology, there were never any hard feelings. 

My whole point of the earlier post was depending on the user. Meaning this, if you have alot of games that use physx processing go the nvidia route. AMD Stream will be out soon, so if you do alot of video encoding, go the ATi route.


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## Frizz (Nov 24, 2008)

I'd personally keep whichever you paid more for since both setups are somehow similar in performance.


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## Chouf (Nov 24, 2008)

randomflip said:


> I'd personally keep whichever you paid more for since both setups are somehow similar in performance.



i think this is the most valuable comment  (no sarcasm here)

after reading all your comments guys (thanks btw for all this ), it seems to me that the two setup are +/- equal. i'm not a bencher, I'm more a gamer and what i like the most is to play with the higher settings possible.

the fact that one GX2 can provide +/- comparable perfs to 2x 4850 is already  good point, and as stated above, the 4850 will have a higher selling value too. So I've been running on ATI for the last 4 years, maybe it's time switch and see how it goes with Nvidia.

One last question maybe, someoe mentionned "drives maturing", what do you mean by that? Nvidia release cycle is not as regular as ATI?

Thanks again


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## Binge (Nov 24, 2008)

I think what he means is it'll take longer for ATi to go as far as nVidia on the software side of their cards.  The hardware is definitely sound.  One thing that made me switch to nV were CUDA uses.  ATi's Stream might compete, but I didn't build this machine only for gaming.  I have a grandmother with Altzheimer's and folding@home is my way of doing one more thing for her and anyone else who might have to go through that.


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## Chouf (Nov 24, 2008)

Binge said:


> ...One thing that made me switch to nV were CUDA uses.



excuse my ignorance but what is CUDA


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## JC316 (Nov 24, 2008)

I would go with the GX2 if it suits your needs. It draws less power + less heat + single card solution = the winner to me.


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## Frizz (Nov 24, 2008)

Both are great setups, both will have PhysX of some sort, ATI will have an advantage in video encoding in december(FireStreaming) as stated earlier in this thread and the amount of programs that use NVIDIA's cuda is highly considerable.

I would go with the 9800gx2 since its more expensive. 2 4850's are cheaper, if this was a "which one should I buy?" question I would recommend the 4850's, but you have both so obviously the 9800gx2 is going to bring you more happiness if you keep it . The more expensive one is usually the better one, if not in performance then look at the features and its compatibility to optimize its multi-GPU features on games and applications.



PS: (This hardware talk is getting me excited for my big christmas upgrade  a grand to spend! Whatever should I buy!?!?!) THREAD SHORTLY lol.


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## Tatty_One (Nov 24, 2008)

Maelstrom said:


> 4 each 4850 only uses one 6 pin, so he only needs two



Lol, my bad, I thought they were 2 pins each............now that changes things, I am going for the two 4850 1GB cards!  sod the GX2!

Edit:  Just ordered two Powercolor 1GB PCS+ cards with the Zerotherm cooler.....well happy!


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## Tatty_One (Nov 24, 2008)

randomflip said:


> Both are great setups, both will have PhysX of some sort, ATI will have an advantage in video encoding in december(FireStreaming) as stated earlier in this thread and the amount of programs that use NVIDIA's cuda is highly considerable.
> 
> I would go with the 9800gx2 since its more expensive. 2 4850's are cheaper, if this was a "which one should I buy?" question I would recommend the 4850's, but you have both so obviously the 9800gx2 is going to bring you more happiness if you keep it . The more expensive one is usually the better one, if not in performance then look at the features and its compatibility to optimize its multi-GPU features on games and applications.
> 
> ...



In the UK it's the opposite, the GX2 is cheaper than two 4850's.


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## Frizz (Nov 24, 2008)

Tatty_One said:


> In the UK it's the opposite, the GX2 is cheaper than two 4850's.



Lol wow, nevermind my opinion then. Maybe the Aussies admire Nvidia more lol, I wouldn't know now xD.


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## Chouf (Nov 24, 2008)

tonight it's GX2 setup :-D

anyone interested by 2x 2 months old ATI HD4850? ;-)


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## Bjorn_Of_Iceland (Nov 24, 2008)

Very nice! Good luck! Tell us if you get any severe micro stuttering problems kay?


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## TRIPTEX_CAN (Nov 24, 2008)

Jeffredo said:


> Playing devil's advocate here, can you provide links to tests where they do?  What is your basis that they should?  That's part of the hazard of CF or SLI (or two GPU single cards).  Sometimes games don't play nice with them.



COD4 is specifically one of those games that should always play nice with crossfire usually posting exceptional scaling efficiency. http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-ati-radeon-hd-4850-review-force-3d--powercolor/17) (http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...0-hd4850-crossfire-performance-review-11.html)


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 24, 2008)

TRIPTEX_MTL said:


> COD4 is specifically one of those games that should always play nice with crossfire usually posting exceptional scaling efficiency. http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-ati-radeon-hd-4850-review-force-3d--powercolor/17) (http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...0-hd4850-crossfire-performance-review-11.html)



COD 4 runs excellent on my Machine, look at Specs.


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## Jeffredo (Nov 24, 2008)

TRIPTEX_MTL said:


> COD4 is specifically one of those games that should always play nice with crossfire usually posting exceptional scaling efficiency. http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-ati-radeon-hd-4850-review-force-3d--powercolor/17) (http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...0-hd4850-crossfire-performance-review-11.html)



Thanks for the links (and a little education - don't play the game and I wasn't familiar).  The reviewer did seem a little incredulous that it wasn't scaling.   CF did seem to scale in most of the other games he tried.  It is a little weird.  He should have tried it on another machine when an obviously CF friendly title doesn't work on the one he's using (but he might as not wanted to bother, and it that case the review is flawed).


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## mullered07 (Nov 24, 2008)

Tatty_One said:


> i would go for the GX2....only just, the 4850's are damn fine cards in Xfire, I only said GX2 cause I am getting one this week to play, and less messing with cabling, need 4 cables for the 4850 setup, just 2 for the GX2, if buying, i would say get the cheapest, in my case thats the GX2 as I can get them new for £200 ish.



how did you get 4 cables ? they only have 1 pcie 6pin connector 

and £200ish is what 2 4850's can be grabbed for if you look. hes already stated he has the 4850s anyway so forking out for them isnt the issue.

i think theres nothing in it performance wise (afterall what games cant you play maxxed with either card setup?) unless you bench and even then im not too sure what would be the best setup


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## TRIPTEX_CAN (Nov 24, 2008)

Jeffredo said:


> Thanks for the links (and a little education - don't play the game and I wasn't familiar).  The reviewer did seem a little incredulous that it wasn't scaling.   CF did seem to scale in most of the other games he tried.  It is a little weird.  He should have tried it on another machine when an obviously CF friendly title doesn't work on the one he's using (but he might as not wanted to bother, and it that case the review is flawed).



Exactly, even if the rest of his game tests are 100% accurate I have no choice but to disregard the results based on these mistakes. He just wasn't that thorough.


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## niko084 (Nov 24, 2008)

Seriously if you have both setups ready, test both and post your results, then you know you made the best choice too.


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## mullered07 (Nov 24, 2008)

niko084 said:


> Seriously if you have both setups ready, test both and post your results, then you know you made the best choice too.



+1 you could have done that already lol


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## Tatty_One (Nov 24, 2008)

mullered07 said:


> how did you get 4 cables ? they only have 1 pcie 6pin connector
> 
> and £200ish is what 2 4850's can be grabbed for if you look. hes already stated he has the 4850s anyway so forking out for them isnt the issue.
> 
> i think theres nothing in it performance wise (afterall what games cant you play maxxed with either card setup?) unless you bench and even then im not too sure what would be the best setup



yeah it was pointed out on post 28   And yes you can get two for a hundred quid "ish" each but they tend to be mostly the lesser models with the lesser cooling, I actually ordered two Powercolour 1GB PCS+ cards this morning then cancelled it and got the 9800GX2, I forgot I had a coupon for the XFX GX2 for £179 (the shop only sells XFX therefore no ATi cards), the 2 powercolours would have cost me £276 for equal or similar performance, plus on my P45 board, in XFire I would only be getting 8x from each slot although I appreciate there is very little hit there, this way i get 2 GPU's at 16x


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## Jeffredo (Nov 24, 2008)

niko084 said:


> Seriously if you have both setups ready, test both and post your results, then you know you made the best choice too.



I wish he would FRAPS a few games just to give us an idea of how they perform.


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## {JNT}Raptor (Nov 24, 2008)

I have the 9800GX2 and couldn't be happier with it.....Tatty not that you need to hear this at all...but with your Quad at 4+gig.....It'll scream.....my E8500 at 4gig makes me weep for joy when playing with my GX2.....so your Quad should be absolutely awesome. 

Just my 2c's.


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## Tatty_One (Nov 24, 2008)

{JNT}Raptor said:


> I have the 9800GX2 and couldn't be happier with it.....Tatty not that you need to hear this at all...but with your Quad at 4+gig.....It'll scream.....my E8500 at 4gig makes me weep for joy when playing with my GX2.....so your Quad should be absolutely awesome.
> 
> Just my 2c's.



Thanks, sadly, I treated myself, I cancelled the GX2 and re-ordered the two powercolour 1GB PCS+ cards, just felt like a change in the end, I have not had an ATI card since my old 1800XT, went for the 1gig cards purely for my 19xx resolution plus in the unlikely event that i have a game that aint Crossfire compatible, the single 1GB card should do a little better, plus they overclock well 

Edit:  cancel....they are out of stock!  damn site does not have live update of stock levels so half an hour ago it showed 4 cards, ordered two and just got an e mail saying none in stock, card not debited   looks like it's the GX2 after all.....never mind.


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## steve258 (Nov 29, 2008)

Maelstrom said:


> 4 each 4850 only uses one 6 pin, so he only needs two



Yeah, and not to mention the GX2 requires an eight-pin PCI-E so if you don't already have the cable or adapter it can be a ***** to find one - I had to make one myself when I had my GX2.



JC316 said:


> I would go with the GX2 if it suits your needs. It draws less power + less heat + single card solution = the winner to me.



Single card only in the sense that it requires 1 PCI-E slot. It still uses internal SLI so the usual SLI compatibility applies.

Also the GX2 ran HOT - had to switch fan to 100% most of the time and that's after I took it apart to reaply AS5 and left the metal casing off. The side and back panels of my Lian-Li alu case were uncomfortable to touch after half an hour of gaming.

Had to say though performance wise it was pretty staggering, in most games it's still up there with the GTX280/260 so I'm sure OP won't be dissapointed.


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## Tatty_One (Nov 29, 2008)

I have ended up ordering two Palit 1GB HD4850 Sonic's and they each come with an 8 pin PCI-E connector   at least they include the adaptors in the box and my PSU comes with one fitted in anycase.  At the end of the day, with UK prices I have got GTX280 beating performance for £80 less than a 280.


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## mullered07 (Nov 29, 2008)

congrats tatty, im sure you wont be dissapointed, i love the perf of my 4850's im actually surprised how well they scale in most games giving a noticeable boost


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## Tatty_One (Nov 29, 2008)

mullered07 said:


> congrats tatty, im sure you wont be dissapointed, i love the perf of my 4850's im actually surprised how well they scale in most games giving a noticeable boost



Thanks, they will be here Monday, I only really went for these because.........

1.  They are palit's
2.  The coolers are excellent and actually blow the air outta the back
3.  I wanted the 1GB's to ensure performance at 19XX res.
4.  They were actually cheap in comparison to ANY other 1GB cards (I found a nice little etailer)
5.  Some reviews overclock them to 790mhz!!!!!!!
6.  They are Palits (again!)


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## mullered07 (Nov 29, 2008)

am gonna have to get me an aftermarket cooler for my powercolor 4850, that biatch gets damn hot, its not too bad with fan control but then you have to factor in the noise, my other is an msi r4850 t2d512 with a damn nice custom cooler on it that keeps it around 44c idle and 55c load and its quiet

its this one i believe


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## Tatty_One (Nov 29, 2008)

Looks nice and similar in some ways to the palit, this is their cooler albeit this is on the 512mb model.


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## mullered07 (Nov 29, 2008)

do the 1gb versions come with that smaller non reference pcb ?


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## Tatty_One (Nov 29, 2008)

mullered07 said:


> do the 1gb versions come with that smaller non reference pcb ?



Yes they do, however unlike the powercolor 1GB cards, the memory is all on the front side so gets cooled by the fan, I have bought some Thermaltake copper ramsinks for the VRM's and mosfet to add some additional cooling although the palits are 3 phase which hopeful means they will run cooler and more stabily.  Like yours, the cooler has two heatppes also and the angle of the mounted fan blows the air outta the back.


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## mullered07 (Nov 29, 2008)

i suppose thats the good thing about them and obviousley there smaller so take up less room, but they dont look like beastly cards lol 

id have to keep telling myself yes they are 4850's, not 4650's


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## Tatty_One (Nov 29, 2008)

mullered07 said:


> i suppose thats the good thing about them and obviousley there smaller so take up less room, but they dont look like beastly cards lol
> 
> id have to keep telling myself yes they are 4850's, not 4650's



Yeah, i just hope they perform like 4850's!  I like the smaller design however, my GTX260 was a real tight squeeze, I have a pretty clean Antec P182 and when a card is a real squeeze you have lless options for cabling etc.


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## mullered07 (Nov 29, 2008)

tell me about it, im thinking of opening her up today, maybe re-applying as5 and popping some on my reference 4850 to see if that helps with temps and getting back on top of my cabling 

seriousley though i know its going to take at least an hour for the cabling alone as it means pulling things out and putting them back in again


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## DarkMatter (Nov 29, 2008)

About "matture" drivers:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3462



> The AMD approach spreads the driver team too thin and concentrates efforts on getting the next driver out rather than on making the next driver good. Consider what AMD went through from 8.10 to 8.11, with the transition to X58 and the release of Far Cry 2. From 8.10, after multiple different hotfix revisions we still didn't have a driver that was really complete. When 8.11 came out, we still had no joy. This week finally saw the release of a hotfix that addresses our issues, but the majority of gamers won't see the changes integrated until 8.12. Essentially, the 8.11 driver release is just a placebo and a waste of time and money. It serves only a marketing purpose to make end users feel all warm and squishy inside.



I agree 100% with that and I have agreed since the very first day Ati started with the monthly drivers. As long as you only play the newest and most notable games everything is OK, but you are always bound to lose stability for older games in a certain Cat driver, just to get support again in the next, just to loose it with the next one once again. The result was me having to use the latest working driver until I found a new one that worked with my setup, and ultimately dual booting windows just to not screw up my OS with so many installing and reinstalling.

On the other hand, I have never had an issue with the Nvidia drivers, even complete betas. Incomplete hotfix beta drivers (which are usually meant for a certain game) do have some compatibility/stability issues with older games, but you can avoid them. The worst thing it can happen if you don't use them is that you won't get some extra performance. Of course the same goes for Cat drivers, but what's the point of having a new driver every month if everybody is going to skip some of them??

What was true for me with the X19xx series is still true to my friends. Most of my Ati owner friends, which are not enthusiast gamers (1-2 new games per year) have to stick to one driver, until they find one that also support their old games, which usually happens to be 3-6 months. In the end a complete driver release every 3-6 months would be simply so much better for them.


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## CDdude55 (Nov 30, 2008)

I would buy a 9800 GX2.

But thats only because i have a 680i board and i could get another one later and go Quad SLI!.


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 30, 2008)

Your system would get away with a 9800GX2 CD, but id recommend another 100 watts if you will overclock your machine.


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## CDdude55 (Nov 30, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> Your system would get away with a 9800GX2 CD, but id recommend another 100 watts if you will overclock your machine.



True, and probably and bigger monitor.19''(widescreen)


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 30, 2008)

just to let you know that was at 100 % load and that is the worst case scenario, i did a Wild Config of 2x 2500M oc to 2343 MHz, and a 3850 512, 3 120 mm fans, 2 SATA HDs, and 4 gigs DDR (Dual Socket Mobo) with Cap load a little higher and it winds up using 540 vs 572 at max load.


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## CDdude55 (Nov 30, 2008)

I would get a GX2(my current 8600 GTS paired with my QX6700 CPU is depressing).

But they don't sell them on Newegg anymore, i think i saw one there thats always out of order.

Maybe TigerDirect.


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## CDdude55 (Nov 30, 2008)

Dam, its not on Newegg or Tigerdirect anymore.wtf.


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 30, 2008)

probably being phased out for the 9800GTX+, and GTX 260+


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## Solaris17 (Nov 30, 2008)

CDdude55 said:


> I would buy a 9800 GX2.
> 
> But thats only because i have a 680i board and i could get another one later and go Quad SLI!.



running an EVGA 608i in quad sli and amazing



eidairaman1 said:


> Your system would get away with a 9800GX2 CD, but id recommend another 100 watts if you will overclock your machine.



with system in specs

<------ i draw 750w load idle atm is 473



CDdude55 said:


> Dam, its not on Newegg or Tigerdirect anymore.wtf.



i just looked son of a bi$%^ theve been deactivated hurry and try to find one before you cant!!!!

http://www.pcconnection.com/IPA/Shop/Product/Detail.htm?sku=8443797&oext=1010A&srccode=cii_5784816&cpncode=17-23815320-2


as for micro stuttering dont be afraid i was at first when all these people were fire and brimstoning me about it....nope...never experianced it...and the new drivers made operation even better. performance is amazing.


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## Hayder_Master (Nov 30, 2008)

the 2x 4850 in cross fire throw 9800 gx2 away , but 9800gx2 win in single card


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