# AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT



## W1zzard (Mar 17, 2021)

The AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT introduces the new Navi 22 GPU, which is optimized to take the fight to NVIDIA in the $500 segment. The RX 6700 XT in our review beats the RTX 3060 Ti with ease and achieves performance that rivals the more expensive RTX 3070, with lower fan noise.

*Show full review*


----------



## spnidel (Mar 17, 2021)

that whopping 1.0% performance uplift from overclocking - mouthwatering!


----------



## Chomiq (Mar 17, 2021)

Looks like they wanted to push it as far as possible in order to beat 3060 Ti. Still, cards will not be available in EU markets for months, and they'll eventually pop up they will be nowhere near the MSRP.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Mar 17, 2021)

Man AMD are making great strides


----------



## Fourstaff (Mar 17, 2021)

Looks pretty decent, except for the availability.


----------



## xkm1948 (Mar 17, 2021)

Wait what? 6900XT peak power at 619Watt during spike??????


----------



## Durvelle27 (Mar 17, 2021)

Fourstaff said:


> Looks pretty decent, except for the availability.


How can you speak on availability when the card isn't even available yet


----------



## Zareek (Mar 17, 2021)

Hmm... Now only if I could get my hands on one of these or a 3060Ti at MSRP. 

Very nice effort by AMD. They are firing on all cylinders right now. Let's hope this continues for a while. Competition should be good for us the consumers, but the supply issues are making that advantage null and void!


----------



## Fourstaff (Mar 17, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> How can you speak on availability when the card isn't even available yet


Well if the card is not available yet, its unavailable right?


----------



## medi01 (Mar 17, 2021)

Is the benchmarks used for OC testing adequate?

Here they concluded +6%:








						AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT (reference) review
					

Priced at $479 USD, AMD released their 'mainstream to high-end Radeon RX 6700 XT. A product that is to battle with the RTX 3060 Ti and 3070 from team green. Armed with 12GB of graphics memory, ... Overclocking the graphics card




					www.guru3d.com


----------



## HD64G (Mar 17, 2021)

Great product technically since while made on the same process and having the same shaders as the Navi10 5700XT it reached the performance of nVidia's previous gen flagship @1440P. Market conditions are the worse though. In a few months if things calm down and prices are close to MSRP, that GPU will become the best in vfm. 2080Ti performance for less than $500?


----------



## bug (Mar 17, 2021)

spnidel said:


> that whopping 1.0% performance uplift from overclocking - mouthwatering!


I'm pretty sure a good overclocker will double those gains.


----------



## xkm1948 (Mar 17, 2021)

Browsed a lot of reviews. To me it is meh, more of 3060Ti level card than a 3070 level. That is excluding the fact DLSS 2.0 and better DXR performance on the green team.


----------



## W1zzard (Mar 17, 2021)

medi01 said:


> Is the benchmarks used for OC testing adequate?


Check my conclusion for the secret tip


----------



## robb (Mar 17, 2021)

HD64G said:


> Great product technically since while made on the same process and having the same shaders as the Navi10 5700XT it reached the performance of nVidia's previous gen flagship @1440P. Market conditions are the worse though. In a few months if things calm down and prices are close to MSRP, that GPU will become the best in vfm. 2080Ti performance for less than $500?


if that's your logic then the 3070 is an even better deal as it's only 20 bucks more. Plus if ray tracing and dlss mean anything then 3070 will have even more value.



Durvelle27 said:


> Man AMD are making great strides


What in the heck are you talking about?  Even going by just the msrp's that means all AMD is giving you is about 10% more performance per dollar over the 5700xt. That is an absolute joke of an improvement.


----------



## NightOfChrist (Mar 17, 2021)

@W1zzard The name and the link for the XFX card in the conclusion part of the review are missing "Black" and "-black", respectively. It should be XFX Radeon RX 6700 XT Merc 319 Black.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 17, 2021)

@W1zzard I just love that you're treating GPUs at their real cost to the consumer when assessing performance/$ and drawing your conclusions.

Do you have any plans to test a 6700XT against a 5700XT clock-for-clock to look at IPC improvements between RDNA2 and RDNA1? This is the first card released that allows an apples-to-apples comparison.


----------



## ppn (Mar 17, 2021)

Can't really do a clock for clock with 192 bit bus a step back card against 256 bus. the 128 bit cards can be compared.


----------



## Legacy-ZA (Mar 17, 2021)

The 3070 is the better buy, just simply because of DLSS and better RTX performance, assuming MSRP prices.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 17, 2021)

ppn said:


> Can't really do a clock for clock with 192 bit bus a step back card against 256 bus. the 128 bit cards can be compared.


Correct, but 5700XT overclocking at stock VRAM speeds proves that the 5700XT has more bandwidth than it needs, and the 6700XT's VRAM is clocked higher.

I don't think it would matter, at least it wouldn't have much impact at 1080p and if you wanted to make it a fairer comparison, 192-bit at 2GHz is bandwidth-equivalent to 256-bit at 1.5GHz, a simple underclock of the 5700XT's VRAM.


----------



## W1zzard (Mar 17, 2021)

NightOfChrist said:


> @W1zzard The name and the link for the XFX card in the conclusion part of the review are missing "Black" and "-black", respectively. It should be XFX Radeon RX 6700 XT Merc 319 Black.


I'm taking the liberty to rearrange and simplify product names when it makes sense for me 





Technically you are right of course, but apparently there's no "not Black" card, so why even include that part?


----------



## bug (Mar 17, 2021)

ppn said:


> Can't really do a clock for clock with 192 bit bus a step back card against 256 bus. the 128 bit cards can be compared.


You can slow down the 256bit VRAM to the same bandwidth, if needed. But you will only find very few scenarios are bandwidth limited.


----------



## HenrySomeone (Mar 17, 2021)

Well, well, well, just like I figured - despite their claims, this is much closer to 3060Ti than a 3070 and that's in best case scenario (1080p, rasterization only). Under truly gpu bound circumstances (4K) those claims of 3070-like performance fall flat on their ass and that's not counting in the abysmal OC performance (1% against 3060Ti's 7.5% ) and lack of DLSS, not to mention Ray Tracing...


----------



## beautyless (Mar 17, 2021)

RX580 8GB and 5500XT 8GB are 500usd for each second hand in my place.
I ended up bought a RX560 4GB second hand for 80usd. It play my fav games, Resident Evil 7,2,3 full hd at medium.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Mar 17, 2021)

robb said:


> if that's your logic then the 3070 is an even better deal as it's only 20 bucks more. Plus if ray tracing and dlss mean anything then 3070 will have even more value.
> 
> 
> What in the heck are you talking about?  Even going by just the msrp's that means all AMD is giving you is about 10% more performance per dollar over the 5700xt. That is an absolute joke of an improvement.


Man you obliviously have no idea how it works

The RX 6700 XT is on average 20-30% faster than the RX 5700 XT while also supporting more features

Even at MSRP the 5700XT initially launched at $449 vs the RX 6700XT at $479

So for $30 more you get upto 30% more performance. How is that a joke, that quite a improvement


----------



## Frick (Mar 17, 2021)

robb said:


> if that's your logic then the 3070 is an even better deal as it's only 20 bucks more. Plus if ray tracing and dlss mean anything then 3070 will have even more value.
> 
> 
> What in the heck are you talking about?  Even going by just the msrp's that means all AMD is giving you is about 10% more performance per dollar over the 5700xt. That is an absolute joke of an improvement.



At least they are competing again.


----------



## RedelZaVedno (Mar 17, 2021)

Why would anyone buy 6700XT over 3070 in normal market conditions (at MSRP)?

1. standard rasterization:  -4% at 1080/1440p & -10% at 4K
2. No DLSS
3. RT around 20% higher performance hit
4. No Adobe cuda GPU acceleration support
5. Worse encoder
6. Abysmal +50% 20ms power consumption spikes rendering 6700XT dangerous for below 600W golden PSUs
7. No meaningful OC headroom
8. slower drivers upgrades due to smaller software team behind it

9. The only plus is 4 gigs more GDDR

This GPU should have MSRP of $399 MAX and $349 to call it great value proposition. Just be patient. You'll be able to buy this GPU for 200 to 250 bucks on 2nd hand market, once mining craze ends.


----------



## N3M3515 (Mar 17, 2021)

HenrySomeone said:


> Well, well, well, just like I figured - despite their claims, this is much closer to 3060Ti than a 3070 and that's in best case scenario (1080p, rasterization only)


I attached the image for 1440p, how is it much closer to the 3060TI?
I see it's 8.3% faster than the 3060Ti and 4% slower than 3070 (are we watching different reviews?)



RedelZaVedno said:


> Why would anyone buy 6700XT over 3070 in normal market conditions (at MSRP)?
> 
> 1. standard rasterization:  -4% at 1080/1440p & -10% at 4K
> 2. No DLSS
> ...


It's the price, i think the 6700XT is a $450 gpu at max, to be a viable option over the 3070.


----------



## RedelZaVedno (Mar 17, 2021)

N3M3515 said:


> It's the price, i think the 6700XT is a $450 gpu at max, to be a viable option over the 3070.


It's just 20-25 percent faster (depending on resolution) than 5700XT and it costs 20% more (MSRP). Where is generation to generation added value in such MSRP? I see none.


----------



## mechtech (Mar 17, 2021)

TPU got more 6700XT's than all Canada 



edit - yep newegg shows 0








						Radeon RX 6000 Series GPUs / Video Graphics Cards | Newegg.ca
					

Shop Radeon RX 6000 Series GPUs / Video Graphics Cards on Newegg.ca. Watch for amazing deals and get great pricing.




					www.newegg.ca


----------



## Durvelle27 (Mar 17, 2021)

RedelZaVedno said:


> It's just 20-25 percent faster (depending on resolution) than 5700XT and it costs 20% more (MSRP). Where is generation to generation added value in such MSRP? I see none.


Man how are you getting 20% 

$479 of $449 is not 20%


----------



## R0H1T (Mar 17, 2021)

mechtech said:


> TPU got more 6700XT's than all Canada


Wizzard probably needs to upgrade his insurance/security at work, another year of this madness & they'll probably be worth millions* 


Spoiler



Yen or Korean won


----------



## HenrySomeone (Mar 17, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> Man how are you getting 20%
> 
> $479 of $449 is not 20%


Only the ridiculous "50th anniversary" 5700XT had the MSRP of $449, the regular one was at $399


----------



## 64K (Mar 17, 2021)

AMD has come out and said that they will not be imposing limitations on miners being able to use cards for mining so I wouldn't expect to actually be able to buy a 6700 XT for gaming.


----------



## Durvelle27 (Mar 17, 2021)

HenrySomeone said:


> Only the ridiculous "50th anniversary" 5700XT had the MSRP of $449, the regular one was at $399


Initially it was $449 but than when Nvidia announced the Supers they cut the price down to $399

I remember as I had bought the 5700 XT Anniversary and the ASRock 5700XT Tachi


----------



## R0H1T (Mar 17, 2021)

64K said:


> so I wouldn't expect to actually be able to buy a 6700 XT for gaming.


Till the time crypto tanks big, like the last half a dozen(?) times, that's pretty much inevitable!


----------



## N3M3515 (Mar 17, 2021)

RedelZaVedno said:


> It's just 20-25 percent faster (depending on resolution) than 5700XT and it costs 20% more (MSRP). Where is generation to generation added value in such MSRP? I see none.


Call it the RT tax, just like nvidia did when they went from pascal to touring (which i also hate).


----------



## Panchovix (Mar 17, 2021)

RedelZaVedno said:


> Why would anyone buy 6700XT over 3070 in normal market conditions (at MSRP)?
> 
> 1. standard rasterization:  -4% at 1080/1440p & -10% at 4K
> 2. No DLSS
> ...


IMO the only think that comes to my mind that someone goes for this 6700XT instead of the 3070

Irrational hate for NVIDIA, nothing else lol


----------



## B-Real (Mar 17, 2021)

HenrySomeone said:


> Well, well, well, just like I figured - despite their claims, this is much closer to 3060Ti than a 3070 and that's in best case scenario (1080p, rasterization only). Under truly gpu bound circumstances (4K) those claims of 3070-like performance fall flat on their ass and that's not counting in the abysmal OC performance (1% against 3060Ti's 7.5% ) and lack of DLSS, not to mention Ray Tracing...


I'm wondering why you are lying: even in 1440p, the 6700 XT is 9% faster than the 3060 Ti while 3070 is 4% faster. That means on a scale, it is twice closer to the 3070 compared to the 3060 Ti.







In 1440p SotTR, Techspot was able to OC it by 6%.






Plus you won't buy a 3070-like GPU for RT as it lacks power. Not to forget the extra 4 GB VRAM the 6700 XT has over the 3060 Ti and the 3070, which is needed for 4K, and even in 1440P sometimes.


----------



## bug (Mar 17, 2021)

Panchovix said:


> IMO the only think that comes to my mind that someone goes for this 6700XT instead of the 3070
> 
> Irrational hate for NVIDIA, nothing else lol


There are also those that swear by Linux' open source drivers. I'm not convinced it's a worthy trade off, but it's a reason nonetheless.


----------



## HD64G (Mar 17, 2021)

64K said:


> AMD has come out and said that they will not be imposing limitations on miners being able to use cards for mining so I wouldn't expect to actually be able to buy a 6700 XT for gaming.


Less mining performance than 5700 isn't appealing for miners. Scalpers will try to grab as many as possible though.


----------



## Panchovix (Mar 17, 2021)

bug said:


> There are also those that swear by Linux' open source drivers. I'm not convinced it's a worthy trade off, but it's a reason nonetheless.


I think atm the 6000 AMD gpus have some issues in Linux open drivers also


----------



## RedelZaVedno (Mar 17, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> Man how are you getting 20%
> 
> $479 of $449 is not 20%


Where did you get $449? 5700XT FE had official MSRP of $399... Lisa wanted to charge $449 for it, but she changed her mind the last minute when she saw audience reaction. Now she clearly doesn't give a F... She knows AMD will sell every single unit it can get out of TSMC factory.



N3M3515 said:


> Call it the RT tax, just like nvidia did when they went from pascal to touring (which i also hate).


RT tax for what? Worse RT performance than competition 2 years later and still no AI super sampling?  Jesus, you make me sound like I'm Ngreedia fan  You have to call out bad practices be it from Nvidia or AMD. They both care only about milking DIY PC consumers to the max and then some more.


----------



## B-Real (Mar 17, 2021)

RedelZaVedno said:


> Why would anyone buy 6700XT over 3070 in normal market conditions (at MSRP)?
> 
> 1. standard rasterization:  -4% at 1080/1440p & -10% at 4K
> 2. No DLSS
> ...



Nobody is buying 3070 for RT performance. Not to mention the amount of games that truly support RT.

The extra 4 GB VRAM over the 3060 Ti and the 3070 is enough for the 6700XT to run games with very high VRAM needs smoother than those cards even in 1440P. So if you are interested in raw rasterization performance, that -4% difference means less than having 4 GB extra VRAM.


----------



## N3M3515 (Mar 17, 2021)

RedelZaVedno said:


> RT tax for what? Worse RT performance than competition 2 years later and still no AI super sampling? Jesus, you make me sound like Ngreedia fan


I'm not saying i like it, i'm saying: nvidia upped by an insane amount the prices of touring relative to pascal because "RT", now amd is doing the same, upping the price because their last gen did not have "RT".
Also, at this moment they could set the msrp at $700 and they would fly of the shelves anyway...


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 17, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> Even at MSRP the 5700XT initially launched at $449 vs the RX 6700XT at $479


No, the _rumoured_ launch price of the 5700XT was $449 to mess with Nvidia's Super launch. Actual launch pricing was $399 right from day one, AMD official figures and true at retail (I bought a bunch of them).

The 5700 series was notable in that it came in cheaper than everyone in the industry expected it to come and undercut Nvidia's overpriced Turing lineup significantly.


----------



## RedelZaVedno (Mar 17, 2021)

N3M3515 said:


> I'm not saying i like it, i'm saying: nvidia upped by an insane amount the prices of touring relative to pascal because "RT", now amd is doing the same, upping the price because their last gen did not have "RT".
> Also, at this moment they could set the msrp at $700 and they would fly of the shelves anyway...


The problem with todays MSRPs is that they will stick even when mining craze ends. Expect 7700XT to cost north of 500 bucks. The only thing that can save DIY PC market from becoming niche for the rich and PC nerds willing to sell their kidneys for new GPUs is paradoxically Raja Koduri at Intel, pulling another "Polaris like GPU" out of a hat or we're F...ed. Ngreedia&AMD are clearly OK by maximizing profits in the short term no matter what.


----------



## B-Real (Mar 17, 2021)

robb said:


> if that's your logic then the 3070 is an even better deal as it's only 20 bucks more. Plus if ray tracing and dlss mean anything then 3070 will have even more value.
> 
> 
> What in the heck are you talking about?  Even going by just the msrp's that means all AMD is giving you is about 10% more performance per dollar over the 5700xt. That is an absolute joke of an improvement.


Actually the 6700 XT is about 1,5% better in price performance compared to the RX 5700 XT, not 10%. However, I'm really waiting your at least this type of splutter on NV as the 3070 was even worse upgrade, 1% better regarding price/performance compared to the 2070.


----------



## N3M3515 (Mar 17, 2021)

RedelZaVedno said:


> The problem with todays MSRPs is that they will stick even when mining craze ends. Expect 7700XT to cost north of 500 bucks. The only thing that can save DIY PC market from becoming niche for the rich and PC nerds willing to sell their kidneys for new GPUs is paradoxically Raja Koduri at Intel, pulling another "Polaris like GPU" out of a hat or we're F...ed. Ngreedia&AMD are clearly OK by maximizing profits in the short term no matter what.


That's very fucked up, i hope intel pulls that polaris stuff, or we're screwed for good.


----------



## bug (Mar 17, 2021)

Panchovix said:


> I think atm the 6000 AMD gpus have some issues in Linux open drivers also


I'm pretty sure between 3D acceleration power management, compute and HDMI sound, all AMD GPUs have some issues. But that doesn't stop people.
Conversely, AMD GPUs are better, for example, at turning themselves off when you run off the IGP.


----------



## robb (Mar 17, 2021)

B-Real said:


> Actually the 6700 XT is about 1,5% better in price performance compared to the RX 5700 XT, not 10%. However, I'm really waiting your at least this type of splutter on NV as the 3070 was even worse upgrade, 1% better regarding price/performance compared to the 2070.


Where you coming up with that? It's 31% faster in this review than the 5700xt and it cost 20% more than the 5700xt so that's 11% not 1%.


----------



## mechtech (Mar 17, 2021)

RedelZaVedno said:


> Why would anyone buy 6700XT over 3070 in normal market conditions (at MSRP)?
> 
> 1. standard rasterization:  -4% at 1080/1440p & -10% at 4K
> 2. No DLSS
> ...


Who knows
-not normal market conditions
and most of the things you listed not really much issue for straight gaming, which is all most people do
I would guess for gamers
1. 4% is meh 
2. if you use it or need it
3. if you have games that have it or like it or even use it/personal preference?
4. if you use it/need it
5. encoder?  video?
6. interesting - got some reviews/studies?
7. if you OC
8. fair - but who wants to be updating drivers on a weekly basis?



RedelZaVedno said:


> The problem with todays MSRPs is that they will stick even when mining craze ends. Expect 7700XT to cost north of 500 bucks. The only thing that can save DIY PC market from becoming niche for the rich and PC nerds willing to sell their kidneys for new GPUs is paradoxically Raja Koduri at Intel, pulling another "Polaris like GPU" out of a hat or we're F...ed. Ngreedia&AMD are clearly OK by maximizing profits in the short term no matter what.


I think intel will do the same for price.

GPU's are like Apple products now, $1000 for anything


----------



## A Computer Guy (Mar 17, 2021)

RedelZaVedno said:


> Why would anyone buy 6700XT over 3070 in normal market conditions (at MSRP)?
> 
> 1. standard rasterization:  -4% at 1080/1440p & -10% at 4K
> 2. No DLSS
> ...


There was an interesting Hardware Unboxed video recently showing AMD cards performing better on lower end cpu's.


----------



## HenrySomeone (Mar 17, 2021)

B-Real said:


> Nobody is buying 3070 for RT performance. Not to mention the amount of games that truly support RT.
> 
> The extra 4 GB VRAM over the 3060 Ti and the 3070 is enough for the 6700XT to run games with very high VRAM needs smoother than those cards even in 1440P. So if you are interested in raw rasterization performance, that -4% difference means less than having 4 GB extra VRAM.


12 over 8 making a difference in 1440p today?!?   I commend you for outing yourself as a hardcore AMD fanboy, so that those of us that don't subscribe to that cult can ignore you in the future...


----------



## Turmania (Mar 17, 2021)

Lovely cards, though I want to see cards that are around 150w range.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Mar 17, 2021)

A Computer Guy said:


> There was an interesting Hardware Unboxed video recently showing AMD cards performing better on lower end cpu's.


Nvidia = Software Scheduler = faster scheduler because high clocked cpu, but worse frame latency. Transferring data from cpu and back (I'm guessing)
AMD = Hardware Scheduler = slower scheduler because limited GPU clock , but better frame times. No transferring of data. (again  guessing)


----------



## evernessince (Mar 17, 2021)

RedelZaVedno said:


> The problem with todays MSRPs is that they will stick even when mining craze ends. Expect 7700XT to cost north of 500 bucks. The only thing that can save DIY PC market from becoming niche for the rich and PC nerds willing to sell their kidneys for new GPUs is paradoxically Raja Koduri at Intel, pulling another "Polaris like GPU" out of a hat or we're F...ed. Ngreedia&AMD are clearly OK by maximizing profits in the short term no matter what.



Raja didn't work on Polaris.  AMD had two driver teams, Raja worked on Vega, the other on Polaris and Navi.


----------



## NightOfChrist (Mar 17, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> I'm taking the liberty to rearrange and simplify product names when it makes sense for me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, I mean in the conclusion page you mentioned about the launch-day reviews of several cards, including the XFX RX 6700 XT Merc 319 card. My point was the review you made was for XFX RX 6700 XT Merc 319 Black card, and the current link (https://www.techpowerup.com/review/xfx-radeon-rx-6700-xt-merc-319/) actually leads into a 404, meaning it leads to a non-existing page. Notice the link doesn't have "-black" on it.

I don't know if you just want to use "XFX RX 6700 XT Merc 319" instead of "XFX RX 6700 XT Merc 319 Black", but the correct link for your XFX RX 6700 XT Merc 319 Black review is https://www.techpowerup.com/review/xfx-radeon-rx-6700-xt-merc-319-black/ (notice the "-black" part at the end of the link).

Sorry if I made you confused here. I'm native Japanese and not a native English speaker.


----------



## W1zzard (Mar 17, 2021)

NightOfChrist said:


> No, I mean in the conclusion page you mentioned about the launch-day reviews of several cards, including the XFX RX 6700 XT Merc 319 card. My point was the review you made was for XFX RX 6700 XT Merc 319 Black card, and the current link (https://www.techpowerup.com/review/xfx-radeon-rx-6700-xt-merc-319/) actually leads into a 404, meaning it leads to a non-existing page. Notice the link doesn't have "-black" on it.


ooooh fuck.. now i get it.. fixing


----------



## ilyon (Mar 17, 2021)

On which PCIE port do you stick the red part of the config ?


----------



## Octopuss (Mar 17, 2021)

Seriously, how can you even put stuff like this into pros/cons?

Very limited supply
Actual market price will end up much higher
Man that's stupid as f***. That has no room in a review.
This says absolutely NOTHING about the product you're reviewing.


----------



## medi01 (Mar 17, 2021)

RedelZaVedno said:


> Why would anyone buy 6700XT over 3070 in normal market conditions (at MSRP)?
> 
> 1. standard rasterization:  -4% at 1080/1440p & -10% at 4K
> 2. No DLSS
> ...


So, nobody should buy a card with +4GB VRAM, that is slightly behind as is, and closes the gap with SAM enabled, because:

1) Ah, performance, ok
2) No glorified TAA upscaling in a handful of games that support it
3) It merely wins in 3 games out of about 11 (WoW, Fortnight, Dirt 5), ties in one (Godfall) as if, you know, RT performance in new, non-NV tailored games was better on it for some reason.
4) If you use adobe
5) If you believe FUD about encoders
6) Some FUD about power consumption
7) Ok, if we talk about reference card. At least one of 8 points is somewhat valid. 
8) Outright nonsense from batshit crazy world

I think with Lisa AMD has quit "drop competitor's price" business and peole who want to buy slower card with 8GB RAM or weird car with same perf, but 4GB VRAM for more money, should feel free to do so.

Especially people with CPU's as "ancient" as 2600x:









						NVIDIA and DirectX 12 Bottleneck? MSI GeForce RTX 3090 SUPRIM vs. MSI Radeon RX 6900XT Gaming X and its own drivers | igor'sLAB
					

I have to preface today's post with a little paragraph first, as I want to take the whiff of sensationalism out of it. Nevertheless, you have to write about it and you also have to test it out…




					www.igorslab.de
				















Panchovix said:


> I think atm the 6000 AMD gpus have some issues in Linux open drivers also


You just made that shit up.


----------



## A Computer Guy (Mar 17, 2021)

medi01 said:


> 5) If you believe FUD about encoders


What's the deal with encoders?  Is this related to live streaming?


----------



## FeelinFroggy (Mar 17, 2021)

Honestly, I did not even know this card was being released.  There is not even a point to have an opinion of a card that you wont find anywhere for close to MSRP anytime soon.

The way things look right now, the 1080ti may be the last card I buy as consoles are looking more attractive every day given the GPU prices.


----------



## r9 (Mar 17, 2021)

xkm1948 said:


> Wait what? 6900XT peak power at 619Watt during spike??????


Nah .. Wizz probable had his hair dryer plugged in.

Arguing nvidia vs amd right now is like debating Superheroes, it's all science fiction.


----------



## Anymal (Mar 17, 2021)

No power consumption of 3060 in the graphs? Why?


----------



## nguyen (Mar 18, 2021)

medi01 said:


> So, nobody should buy a card with +4GB VRAM, that is slightly behind as is, and closes the gap with SAM enabled, because:
> 
> 1) Ah, performance, ok
> 2) No glorified TAA upscaling in a handful of games that support it
> ...



W1zzard tested with Resizeable Bar enabled on default (mentioned in the GPU test system update March 2021 article), so no there won't be anymore performance improvement from the Red Team. Nvidia meanwhile is rolling out their Resizeable Bar support by the end of March, so expect some performance improvement from Ampere.


----------



## watzupken (Mar 18, 2021)

I feel AMD gimped too much on the Navi 22 in terms of CUs, and pushed too hard on the clockspeed. While a high clockspeed is nice, but its burning through too much power for a mid range card. While we are unlikely to see this at MSRP, still I feel the MSRP is also too high. I think people may be better off sticking to a RX 6800 if they want to stay with AMD, or consider a RTX 3070/ 3060 instead.


----------



## evernessince (Mar 18, 2021)

watzupken said:


> I feel AMD gimped too much on the Navi 22 in terms of CUs, and pushed too hard on the clockspeed. While a high clockspeed is nice, but its burning through too much power for a mid range card. While we are unlikely to see this at MSRP, still I feel the MSRP is also too high. I think people may be better off sticking to a RX 5700 XT or 6800 if they want to stay with AMD, or consider a RTX 3070/ 3060 instead.



Yeah, the power consumption numbers are indeed high as is the MSRP.  AMD is likely making a killing on these cards given how much they are cut down.


----------



## medi01 (Mar 18, 2021)

nguyen said:


> W1zzard tested with Resizeable Bar enabled on default (mentioned in the GPU test system update March 2021 article), so no there won't be anymore performance improvement from the Red Team. Nvidia meanwhile is rolling out their Resizeable Bar support by the end of March, so expect some performance improvement from Ampere.


Bar has shown to barely bring anything to NV cards.
TPUs figures curiously contrast with other reviews on some games: (that's why I assumed, SAM was off)










UPDATE: nvm, i'ts 1% min vs average.



watzupken said:


> but its burning through too much power for a mid range card.


Huh, 215W is "too high" for a mid range card....


----------



## Caring1 (Mar 18, 2021)

xkm1948 said:


> Browsed a lot of reviews. To me it is meh, more of 3060Ti level card than a 3070 level. That is excluding the fact DLSS 2.0 and better DXR performance on the green team.


Wait for AMD's secret sauce.


----------



## wolf (Mar 18, 2021)

A Computer Guy said:


> What's the deal with encoders?


Live as well as game capture and various other uses. Personally I use it with an Nvidia SHIELD, so I can play games rendered on my PC but with the video stream playing on my TV with exceptionally little latency penalty and IQ loss.

NVENC is well ahead in this 'features' maturity. Some won't ever use it, so it might not be a selling point, and that will factor in quite heavily into choices this generation, if Nvidia's software stack and things like more mature/performant/optimised RTX, DLSS, NVENC and CUDA maturity/supported apps are important to you, they have a reasonably stronger value proposition here.

Comparatively, AMD's stronger value perhaps lies in larger VRAM buffers across various products, and stronger relative performance in extremely CPU-limited gaming scenarios.

So when choosing, one must weigh up all sorts of things, like the features you might want to use from the product once you have it, architectural strengths and weaknesses, the games/settings/resolutions you'll want to play at, how long you might keep the card, what specs are the system it's going in... etc.



Caring1 said:


> Wait for AMD's secret sauce.


I am keen as mustard to see what they can manage, and there is a tonne of unknowns, like how much it could boost performance, how much IQ is lost/retained... but for the time being, said feature is conclusively absent.


----------



## W1zzard (Mar 18, 2021)

Anymal said:


> No power consumption of 3060 in the graphs? Why?


Because I have no reference card, just a near-reference card flashed with the original reference BIOS



medi01 said:


> TPUs figures curiously contrast with other reviews on some games: (that's why I assumed, SAM was off)


SAM is indeed enabled. Update the specs table in all reviews. Maybe it's because I'm using actual gameplay in AC:V, and not the integrated benchmark which they might have optimized SAM for?



xkm1948 said:


> Wait what? 6900XT peak power at 619Watt during spike??????


That reading is accurate, I've verified it several times. Also tested with a cheapish 700 W PSU, it shuts off every 3rd time I run the test



ilyon said:


> View attachment 192862
> On which PCIE port do you stick the red part of the config ?


I felt this was an adequate spot to put it, or people would keep asking "wut? why no 5900X?"


----------



## Caring1 (Mar 18, 2021)

wolf said:


> I am keen as mustard to see what they can manage, and there is a tonne of unknowns, like how much it could boost performance, how much IQ is lost/retained... but for the time being, said feature is conclusively absent.


I note they are working on Fidelity FX which is their equivelent to DLSS  to  improve "visual quality" to cite their own words.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 18, 2021)

watzupken said:


> I feel AMD gimped too much on the Navi 22 in terms of CUs, and pushed too hard on the clockspeed. While a high clockspeed is nice, but its burning through too much power for a mid range card. While we are unlikely to see this at MSRP, still I feel the MSRP is also too high. I think people may be better off sticking to a RX 6800 if they want to stay with AMD, or consider a RTX 3070/ 3060 instead.


It just seems like RDNA2 is RDNA1 with mediocre DXR support, tweaked for higher clocks. The gamecache seems to have no effect at lower resolutions and only makes a difference at 4K, which is a bit silly because the 6700XT is already at unplayable framerates in several of the tested games at 4K. Who cares if the cache improves performance by 30% when you're still only getting 24.1 fps?

If you look at some of the heavy factory OC 5700XT models with 2150MHz clock speeds they aren't doing a whole lot worse than the ~2450MHz  6700XT reference. I get the impression that a 1900MHz 6700XT would be close enough to a 5700XT that you'd struggle to see the difference in a side-by-side comparison; You'd question whether there was actually an improvement or whether it was just within margin-of-error.

People are arguing that RDNA2 is a huge architectural leap forward, but to me the results sure look like most of the gained performance over the 5700XT is proportional to the clockspeed, meaning that IPC gains are close to zero and power efficiency takes a massive hit from running at those higher clocks.


----------



## Camm (Mar 18, 2021)

So just snagged a Reference 6700 XT for roughly MSRP if I translate USD to AUD + Sales Tax, making (for me) the 6700 XT 61.8% the cost of the cheapest 3070 I can find (out of stock), in Australia, and still $50 AUD cheaper than the cheapest 3060 12GB I could find in Australia.

If AMD can keep decent stock of reference cards in circulation, this isn't a bad card.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 18, 2021)

Camm said:


> So just snagged a Reference 6700 XT for roughly MSRP if I translate USD to AUD + Sales Tax, making (for me) the 6700 XT 61.8% the cost of the cheapest 3070 I can find (out of stock), in Australia, and still $50 AUD cheaper than the cheapest 3060 12GB I could find in Australia.
> 
> If AMD can keep decent stock of reference cards in circulation, this isn't a bad card.


Nice.

MSRP is still FUBAR. It's no 3070 even in raster titles and with subpar RT performance, missing NVENC and missing DLSS it's barely worth the $399 of the 3060Ti, certainly not the near-3070 MSRP they've set.

However, in the current market, getting one for MSRP is essentially "bargain of the year" and I'd take it over a 3060 12GB any day of the week


----------



## dirtyferret (Mar 18, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> How can you speak on availability when the card isn't even available yet





Fourstaff said:


> Well if the card is not available yet, its unavailable right?



If it never becomes available will AMD launch a new line called RX 6700 XT "inaccessible" version or "unattainable" version??


----------



## bug (Mar 18, 2021)

dirtyferret said:


> If it never becomes available will AMD launch a new line called RX 6700 XT "inaccessible" version or "unattainable" version??


Unobtainium edition?


----------



## Chomiq (Mar 18, 2021)

$480 right?




Wrong!


^ that's near $1000.


----------



## Anymal (Mar 18, 2021)

Ceseking lists all the cards but all are unbekannt


----------



## W1zzard (Mar 18, 2021)

Guess my estimates weren't so far off


----------



## Shatun_Bear (Mar 18, 2021)

I was on AMD's website in a pathetic attempt to buy one of these at 1pm GMT, refreshing like crazy. I estimate the stock sold out in about 5 seconds as I saw the 6700XT pop up and then 'out of stock'.

Crazy state of affairs right now trying to get a graphics card in UK.



Chomiq said:


> Looks like they wanted to push it as far as possible in order to beat 3060 Ti. Still, cards will not be available in EU markets for months, and they'll eventually pop up they will be nowhere near the MSRP.



Not true, you get the standard 5% overclocling headroom on the non-ref models.


----------



## evolucion8 (Mar 18, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> It just seems like RDNA2 is RDNA1 with mediocre DXR support, tweaked for higher clocks. The gamecache seems to have no effect at lower resolutions and only makes a difference at 4K, which is a bit silly because the 6700XT is already at unplayable framerates in several of the tested games at 4K. Who cares if the cache improves performance by 30% when you're still only getting 24.1 fps?
> 
> If you look at some of the heavy factory OC 5700XT models with 2150MHz clock speeds they aren't doing a whole lot worse than the ~2450MHz  6700XT reference. I get the impression that a 1900MHz 6700XT would be close enough to a 5700XT that you'd struggle to see the difference in a side-by-side comparison; You'd question whether there was actually an improvement or whether it was just within margin-of-error.
> 
> People are arguing that RDNA2 is a huge architectural leap forward, but to me the results sure look like most of the gained performance over the 5700XT is proportional to the clockspeed, meaning that IPC gains are close to zero and power efficiency takes a massive hit from running at those higher clocks.


The most clueless post of the day.


----------



## Shatun_Bear (Mar 18, 2021)

Camm said:


> So just snagged a Reference 6700 XT for roughly MSRP



May I ask, how? Did you order online? Seems pretty impossible to get one here in UK.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 18, 2021)

evolucion8 said:


> The most clueless post of the day.


How do you explain a 25% performance increase from a 25% clock increase? I call that "zero IPC gain".
Even at MSRP, it's also 20% more expensive which makes it a pretty solid "meh" IMO.


----------



## N3M3515 (Mar 18, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> I call that "zero IPC gain"


Yeah, it seems this gen, both amd and nvidia just upped dramatically the amount of shaders because the ipc remained the same...


----------



## Camm (Mar 18, 2021)

Shatun_Bear said:


> May I ask, how? Did you order online? Seems pretty impossible to get one here in UK.



Australian retailers have pretty good bot protection thank god (and I guess a smaller population might mean a slightly higher allocation). That being said, we were sold out after 10 minutes on all sites I saw.


----------



## ratirt (Mar 18, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> How do you explain a 25% performance increase from a 25% clock increase? I call that "zero IPC gain".
> Even at MSRP, it's also 20% more expensive which makes it a pretty solid "meh" IMO.


There's an IPC gain but it does not look impressive. You can blame it on the mem bandwidth.




Honestly, I expected the 6700XT to be a bit better regarding performance. Not saying it is a bad card or performs bad but in comparison to 3070 I thought the 6700XT would stand up better.


----------



## Shatun_Bear (Mar 18, 2021)

ratirt said:


> There's an IPC gain but it does not look impressive. You can blame it on the mem bandwidth.
> View attachment 193008
> 
> Honestly, I expected the 6700XT to be a bit better regarding performance. Not saying it is a bad card or performs bad but in comparison to 3070 I thought the 6700XT would stand up better.



This is bizarre, the 6700 XT is meant to compete against the 3060 and 3060 Ti, the 6800 already dumps all over the 3070, which can't be had for less than £800 here. So why are people trying to feign disappointment because this $480 card is slightly slower than one a tier or even two above it?


----------



## ratirt (Mar 19, 2021)

Shatun_Bear said:


> This is bizarre, the 6700 XT is meant to compete against the 3060 and 3060 Ti, the 6800 already dumps all over the 3070, which can't be had for less than £800 here. So why are people trying to feign disappointment because this $480 card is slightly slower than one a tier or even two above it?


6800 is more expensive than a 3070. I think people were expecting 6700XT to be just as good as 3070 or better. You can't say it is though. If you consider MSRP the 6700Xt is only $20 less. That is not much. If it were $70 less than the 3070 it would have been an awesome card for the money. It's still not a bad card by all means but if it cost $440 for instance it would have been a killer card.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Mar 19, 2021)

ratirt said:


> Chrispy_ said:
> 
> 
> > How do you explain a 25% performance increase from a 25% clock increase? I call that "zero IPC gain".
> ...



Well That's not right at all, because you didn't account for added hardware for raytracing. Which still means it had to have an increase in IPC. It's now doing more work than what RDNA1 did, when raytracing is in use,

You can decrease ipc and still have a performance increase. If you don't believe it, look back a long time ago at AMD's original phenom vs Phenom II. The phenom II is slight slower pre-clock than the original phenom series. Yet it doesn't matter because Phenom II can clock far higher than what the original phenom could. Now granted that had a node shrink to get it. RDNA1 vs RDNA 2 doesn't still an improvement.

I was looking oh HWbot and the average 5700 XT overclock on air isn't even near the 6700 XT normal clock. Neither is it's liquid nitrogen cooled overclock.


----------



## Anymal (Mar 19, 2021)

They sacrificed several billions of transistors in 6700xt to push clocks higher, considerably higher than in 5700xt, same count of CU though. 6800 an 6900 are bigger chips and therefor on par with top Geforces this round.


----------



## 1d10t (Mar 19, 2021)

5s for bank verification and that's all it takes to sold out. Sigh, I almost got it for MSRP price. Later that day everyone posted 6700 XT ad for $1000. Easy money.


----------



## Caring1 (Mar 19, 2021)

1d10t said:


> snip  everyone posted 6700 XT ad for $1000. Easy money.


Only easy money if idiots buy them at that price.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 19, 2021)

Shatun_Bear said:


> This is bizarre, the 6700 XT is meant to compete against the 3060 and 3060 Ti, the 6800 already dumps all over the 3070, which can't be had for less than £800 here. So why are people trying to feign disappointment because this $480 card is slightly slower than one a tier or even two above it?


Double standards there: You call this a $480 card and say that the 3070 is over £800.
Well, so is the 6700XT. £825-999 based on this morning's quick ebay hunt.

All MSRPs are out of whack right now, but if the 3060Ti is supposed to be $399 and the 6700XT is supposed to be $479, then the 3060Ti pisses all over it with similar raster performance, better raw raytracing performance, usable raytracing at realistic resolutions with DLSS, and a bunch of other features that AMD doesn't even have.

I'm disappointed that the 32CU card isn't much of a step forward over the old 32CU card in either efficiency or value. The raytracing that is part of the blame for the die-size and cost hikes is too bad to use, being no better than the mid-range chip of 2018 (TU-106) and too slow to actually run any RTX games at reasonable resolutions/framerates. DLSS was the crutch that weaker Turing chips could skirt the issue with. AMD's weak 1st-Gen raytracing _doesn't even have that._

It's not even a well made card for $480. Steve's teardown of the reference 6700 slams it for being poorly-designed and _cheap_. He was complimentary of the build quality and design of the 5700XT, for comparison. This one has a pointless backplate with no heatpads. Only a flat alu. plate for the GDDR6, and no transfer from the baseplate to the heatsink for VRMs or inductors. The partner models at $550 are WORTH the extra cost, because the reference cooler is_ underwhelming_, to put it kindly:










*"Not terrible but otherwise very lazy and AMD should have tried harder." 
"Pretty disappointing for just the amount of money - it's completely absurd how little of that money went into the video card itself"*


----------



## bug (Mar 19, 2021)

Caring1 said:


> Only easy money if idiots buy them at that price.


And we all know idiots are in short supply, right?


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 19, 2021)

ratirt said:


> There's an IPC gain but it does not look impressive. You can blame it on the mem bandwidth.
> View attachment 193008
> 
> Honestly, I expected the 6700XT to be a bit better regarding performance. Not saying it is a bad card or performs bad but in comparison to 3070 I thought the 6700XT would stand up better.


Oof, 6% IPC on average. That is_ weak_. No wonder AMD themselves haven't been bragging about the IPC improvements of RDNA2!

The 6700XT would make a good card with $100 lopped off the MSRP (in this _fictitious_ future where cards are available at MSRP of course!) - at _$379 _it would be somewhere close enough to undercut the $399 3060Ti but at a slight discount to account for the higher power consumption, lower raytracing, and missing features like DLSS and NVENC.

Right now, cards are valued on ETH hashrate and not much else so I guess it's worth whatever the miners will pay for it.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Mar 19, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> Oof, 6% IPC on average. That is_ weak_. No wonder AMD themselves haven't been bragging about the IPC improvements of RDNA2!
> 
> The 6700XT would make a good card with $100 lopped off the MSRP (in this _fictitious_ future where cards are available at MSRP of course!) - at _*$379 *_*i*t would be somewhere close enough to undercut the $399 3060Ti but at a slight discount to account for the higher power consumption, lower raytracing, and missing features like DLSS and NVENC.
> 
> Right now, cards are valued on ETH hashrate and not much else so I guess it's worth whatever the miners will pay for it.


Well that IPC is about right they said some where around 7% being, 1% below that is fine. GPU IPC is a lot different from cpu 1% can aggregate more performance than what a cpu gets from 1%. Since there are far more general cores added. At that price this card would be* amazing*,


----------



## N3M3515 (Mar 19, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> at _$379 _it would be somewhere close enough to undercut the $399 3060Ti


Not in a million years would amd or nvidia for that matter price a higher performing gpu below a lower one, specially now that amd is back in the flagship competition. $430 would be a more real guess.
That said, nvidia does have more features, the problem with those is that they only apply for 2% of the games?(and that's not taking in to account that amd is working on a dlss alternative). When more rtx games become available, these gpus won't cut it even with dlss, and by that time, the next gen gpus will be out and will be way more capable in that regard.

So there is no need to give that much importance to features that a gpu won't be able to use in all its splendor.


----------



## Xuper (Mar 19, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> It just seems like RDNA2 is RDNA1 with mediocre DXR support, tweaked for higher clocks. The gamecache seems to have no effect at lower resolutions and only makes a difference at 4K, which is a bit silly because the 6700XT is already at unplayable framerates in several of the tested games at 4K. Who cares if the cache improves performance by 30% when you're still only getting 24.1 fps?
> 
> If you look at some of the heavy factory OC 5700XT models with 2150MHz clock speeds they aren't doing a whole lot worse than the ~2450MHz  6700XT reference. I get the impression that a 1900MHz 6700XT would be close enough to a 5700XT that you'd struggle to see the difference in a side-by-side comparison; You'd question whether there was actually an improvement or whether it was just within margin-of-error.
> 
> *People are arguing that RDNA2 is a huge architectural leap forward*, but to me the results sure look like most of the gained performance over the 5700XT is proportional to the clockspeed, meaning that IPC gains are close to zero and power efficiency takes a massive hit from running at those higher clocks.



Well , It's true because RDNA2 architecture provides great opportunity in game performance which you *CAN'T* get rdna1.


----------



## ratirt (Mar 19, 2021)

Here is some more comparisons. Hardware Unboxed has managed to do some more testing and here are the results.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 19, 2021)

N3M3515 said:


> Not in a million years would amd or nvidia for that matter price a higher performing gpu below a lower one, specially now that amd is back in the flagship competition. $430 would be a more real guess.
> That said, nvidia does have more features, the problem with those is that they only apply for 2% of the games?(and that's not taking in to account that amd is working on a dlss alternative). When more rtx games become available, these gpus won't cut it even with dlss, and by that time, the next gen gpus will be out and will be way more capable in that regard.
> 
> So there is no need to give that much importance to features that a gpu won't be able to use in all its splendor.


Yeah, if AMD's feature set was at parity I'd be okay with $430 - it's about in line with the 22-game average results:






But between CUDA, DLSS, NVENC, and the vastly better DXR performance, I don't feel that raster-performance alone is the only performance metric to look at.


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Mar 19, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> Yeah, if AMD's feature set was at parity I'd be okay with $430 - it's about in line with the 22-game average results:
> 
> View attachment 193091
> 
> But between CUDA, DLSS, NVENC, and the vastly better DXR performance, I don't feel that raster-performance alone is the only performance metric to look at.



That 12GB VRAM is amazing... but the lack of CUDA and the poor OpenCL situation right now really hampers it.

You really run out of VRAM *really quick* when you start doing CUDA / OpenCL stuff. Its not so much needed in video games. I'm not necessarily talking about deep-learning, I'm talking normal SIMD programming environments.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 19, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> That 12GB VRAM is amazing... but the lack of CUDA and the poor OpenCL situation right now really hampers it.
> 
> You really run out of VRAM *really quick* when you start doing CUDA / OpenCL stuff. Its not so much needed in video games. I'm not necessarily talking about deep-learning, I'm talking normal SIMD programming environments.


I've put in a request for a whole pallet of 3060 12GB cards; specifically for workstations. We want CUDA and we want 12GB - actual gaming performance isn't a priority for us.

My account manager said "one per customer at the moment, but as soon as that restriction is lifted I can ship you a pallet direct from distributor".

I'm not holding my breath - I suspect the placeholder 5500XT cards I picked up at £145 each before Christmas will be holding down the fort for several months still.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 19, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> I've put in a request for a whole pallet of 3060 12GB cards; specifically for workstations. We want CUDA and we want 12GB - actual gaming performance isn't a priority for us.
> 
> My account manager said "one per customer at the moment, but as soon as that restriction is lifted I can ship you a pallet direct from distributor".
> 
> I'm not holding my breath - I suspect the placeholder 5500XT cards I picked up at £145 each before Christmas will be holding down the fort for several months still.


A whole pallet of 3060s? Are you trying to buy every 3060 ever produced?


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 19, 2021)

Alexa said:


> A whole pallet of 3060s? Are you trying to buy every 3060 ever produced?


I have to keep almost a thousand machines up to date, a pallet is anywhere from 50-100 cards depending on how bulky the boxes are. I normally buy 8 a month and I haven't been buying any for the last four months because of supply/scalping.

I don't normally order by the pallet but have done a few times now. I have friends working at Google who've told me "standard order is in multiples of twenty pallets" just to make me feel small and insignificant.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 19, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> 50-100 cards


Yup that's about how many 3060s currently exist


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 20, 2021)

Alexa said:


> Yup that's about how many 3060s currently exist


definitely explains why I can't have my pallet yet.


----------



## nguyen (Mar 20, 2021)

6700XT is a design failure, the 96MB Infinity Cache is a waste of silicon space. AMD could just used their expertise in 7nm fabrication process and improve the 5700XT clocks then these 2 GPU would be very close anyways. 
I'm guessing AMD is reserving the RDNA1 for their mining specific lineup, those chips are making a killing out there.


----------



## efikkan (Mar 20, 2021)

B-Real said:


> The extra 4 GB VRAM over the 3060 Ti and the 3070 is enough for the 6700XT to run games with very high VRAM needs smoother than those cards even in 1440P. So if you are interested in raw rasterization performance, that -4% difference means less than having 4 GB extra VRAM.


Where is the evidence of this? If anything RTX 3070 pulls further ahead in 4K, which contradicts your claim. Unfortunately this review doesn't contain measurements of frame rate consistency.

You clearly don't quite understand how VRAM affects performance. If two cards have "comparable" computational performance memory bandwidth, but one of them have significantly more VRAM, that's not going to yield more performance. The only time it will have an advantage is in games with higher details and lower frame rates. Increasing frame rates would require more memory bandwidth and computational performance, which is why more VRAM as "future proofing" is a fool's errand.



bug said:


> There are also those that swear by Linux' open source drivers. I'm not convinced it's a worthy trade off, but it's a reason nonetheless.


There are those who strongly advocate the Gallium3D based AMD drivers, interestingly enough very few of them are heavy users of graphics on Linux, or even uses Linux at all. Whenever you see people argue about this is  they use ideological arguments like the Mesa/Gallium3D driver being _more_ open, and therefore at least 23% less evil. 
Those of us who have long experience in graphics programming knows the AMD drivers (both the proprietary ones and the partially open ones) have terrible OpenGL support, along with frequent glitching in simple things like video, and crashes or corruption which requires restarts. There is a world of difference in general stability between their Linux and Windows drivers (at least as long as you stick to DirectX). There is also lack of support for the OpenGL compatibility profile, which makes things more cumbersome and require a lot of more fiddling. On top of that, Mesa/Gallium3D drivers are bundled with the kernel, so getting one that's less than 2-3 years old is too much hassle for "normal" people, and even for "experts", having to fiddle with untested kernel combinations is not fun.

I'm used to workstations having "continuous" uptime, they run for years, until the next power outage or office reorganization. Nvidia's and largely Intel's drivers (if you don't do heavy OpenGL >3.x) are this stable. AMD Linux drivers are not.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 20, 2021)

nguyen said:


> 6700XT is a design failure, the 96MB Infinity Cache is a waste of silicon space.


It does seem to have negligible impact at 1080p, and even if it scales up in usefulness with resolution, the 6700XT can't really handle 4K with sub-60fps in several games:




This is without DXR and when you enable that another three games fall by the wayside and now _half_ of the games tested run poorly at 4K. That's not good at $480-550. For that sort of money 1440p144Hz or 4K60 displays are the expectation. You don't buy silly-expensive graphics cards to play at 1080p, right?

The games that do run well are what I'll call "lightweight" games that run absolutely fine on old, midrange hardware from 5 years ago. You're not spending $480-550 for no reason when the games you play run smoothly at high details.

I mean, the vanilla 3060 is a worse card for sure, but at least it's supposed to be $150 cheaper and DLSS provides a meaningful performance boost to 8 of those games that the 6700XT performs poorly in, even if you ignore the vastly superior DXR performance....


----------



## HD64G (Mar 20, 2021)

Another source that shows the same that HU video showed about nVidia's GPUs being bottlenecked with all but the most powerful CPUs. Don't you think that it could be a pro in the conclusion page for the latest AMD GPUs @W1zzard (or a con for the nVidia ones to be fair)? And why not remove any of the cons or pros related to the present market condition and not related to the specific product reviewed?

On the top left side of the link's page below there is a button to change language from Russian








						Сравнение процессорозависимости GeForce и Radeon в DX12 | Блоги | Тест GPU
					

Всем доброго времени суток! Без долгих предисловий,  скажем прямо,  что побудило нас к этому сравнению видео п




					gamegpu.com


----------



## nguyen (Mar 20, 2021)

HD64G said:


> Another source that shows the same that HU video showed about nVidia's GPUs being bottlenecked with all but the most powerful CPUs. Don't you think that it could be a pro in the conclusion page for the latest AMD GPUs @W1zzard (or a con for the nVidia ones to be fair)? And why not remove any of the cons or pros related to the present market condition and not related to the specific product reviewed?
> 
> On the top left side of the link's page below there is a button to change language from Russian
> 
> ...



Remind me why do people need sky high FPS in single player games again? and 720p minimum settings?
Do you usually require high FPS with online games? which 99% of them are DX11?
Sure let benchmark 10 most popular online games on Steam like GTA V, CS:GO, DOTA 2, PUBG, Apex Legends, RB6 Siege, Valheim, TF2, Rust, Warframe and see whether AMD or Nvidia has driver overhead problem with low end CPU, that would be a more realistic testing.


----------



## jhimijoeb (Mar 21, 2021)

My few notes for 6700xt:

There is lot of hate of msrp, but msrp in 1Q2021 can't be realy compared to 4Q2020 or even before. There is lot of restrictions and high shiping cost due to current situation. Keep in mind that AMD ship these around the world and you have at least small chance fight bots in store for MSRP.
Cache didn't improve only bandwidth, but also is much more power efficient. It don't mean much on 230W desktop cards, but it could make huge impact on sub 100W laptops. Also it probably have better response times than memory so when games take it in to the acount it could make diferernce.
 I wouldn't use average results as hard numbers as there are some oblivius outliers, like AMD limited around 120 fps. What suprised me, when in some cases 6700 xt was behind in 1440p, but win in 4k. 
In general very nice review. IMHO 6700xt is where it suposed to be, with performance below the 6800, maybe pricing could be better, but it will take some time.


----------



## Jism (Mar 22, 2021)

spnidel said:


> that whopping 1.0% performance uplift from overclocking - mouthwatering!



This comment is a bit stupid. The card overclocks itself. It pretty much seeks the best available boost clock.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 22, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> That 12GB VRAM is amazing... but the lack of CUDA and the poor OpenCL situation right now really hampers it.
> 
> You really run out of VRAM *really quick* when you start doing CUDA / OpenCL stuff. Its not so much needed in video games. I'm not necessarily talking about deep-learning, I'm talking normal SIMD programming environments.


Definitely. Nvidia gave me an RTX 8000 and RTX 6000 to try at launch and with that extra VRAM our vis department could render things that were previously the domain of CPU rendering only.

We bought a couple of RTX 8000 cards and dumped them into an Epyc server so that we can rush-render things easily, but the average workstation is on an 8GB card at this point and the upgrade to 12GB or 16GB will be a welcome change for the 3D modellers and compute/simulation guys. We tend to simulate wind and solar on a "multiple-city-block" scale so you can imagine that the 3D dataset is quite large. Those with a 2080Ti are quite often doing those with a 2060S a favour on their machines as the extra 3GB is the difference between success and error message.

Sure, they could probably justify a Quadro on their salary but this isn't an all-day, every day thing - it's just an occasional part of what they do and if it means saving €3000 on every workstation then damn straight I'm buying Geforce cards!


----------



## Anymal (Mar 22, 2021)

One of the reason I read tpu reviews are images, closer look of the cards. I also wonder why manufactures do not add them when sending review samples to all of reviewers?


----------



## bug (Mar 22, 2021)

Anymal said:


> One of the reason I read tpu reviews are images, closer look of the cards. I also wonder why manufactures do not add them when sending review samples to all of reviewers?


You probably wouldn't trust them as much if the manufacturer produced them. You know, with some manufacturers silently swapping parts and such...
And manufacturers don't want to put the hardware layout under the spotlight. That's only useful to modders and manufacturers don't encourage modding. At least officially they don't.


----------



## spnidel (Mar 22, 2021)

Jism said:


> This comment is a bit stupid. The card overclocks itself. It pretty much seeks the best available boost clock.


nooo you're not allowed to make jokes


----------



## medi01 (Mar 23, 2021)

Welp, it is quite available it seems:

mindfactory.de
Total Gaming GPU Sales Week 12
Nvidia Units 2255 = 67.61%
Radeon Units 1080 = 32.39%


*Radeon Top 5 Selling Brand Line*


RX 6700XT = +285 Units.
RX 6800XT = 285 Units.
RX 6800 = 270 Units
RX 6900XT = 170 Units.
RX 550 = 50 Units.


*Nvidia Top 5 Selling Brand Lines!*


RTX 3070 10GB = 690 Units.
RTX 3060 12GB = 470 Units
GTX 1660 Super = 350 Units.
RTX 2060 6GB = 165 Units.
RTX 3090 24GB = 130 Units.


So, total RDNA2:  285+285+270+170 = 1010
total Ampere: 690+470+130  = 1290

So, *new gen vs new gen is 56% NVidia, 44% AMD.
*

In terms of number of cards sold, by the way, it is somewhat lower than normal, but not "times" lower.


----------



## N3M3515 (Mar 23, 2021)

medi01 said:


> Welp, it is quite available it seems:
> 
> mindfactory.de
> Total Gaming GPU Sales Week 12
> ...


Damn......deep pockets


----------



## Anymal (Mar 23, 2021)

High wages in DE!


----------



## Footman (Jan 4, 2022)

Prices are stupid still!
Managed to buy new, sealed in box AMD 6700XT from a guy on Ebay for $610. Stuck my older 5700XT on Ebay for shits and giggles and watched a shark frenzy, with the Powercolor 5700XT finally selling for $885! WTF.....

Suffice to say the 6700XT is running extremely well and I have enough money from the sale of the 5700XT to buy a new waterblock and PCI-E 4.0 riser cable.....


----------



## N3M3515 (Jan 4, 2022)

Footman said:


> Prices are stupid still!
> Managed to buy new, sealed in box AMD 6700XT from a guy on Ebay for $610. Stuck my older 5700XT on Ebay for shits and giggles and watched a shark frenzy, with the Powercolor 5700XT finally selling for $885! WTF.....
> 
> Suffice to say the 6700XT is running extremely well and I have enough money from the sale of the 5700XT to buy a new waterblock and PCI-E 4.0 riser cable.....


First, that 6700 XT guy must be EXTREMELY desperate for cash. The cheapest on amazon is at $900
Second, don't know about ebay but the cheapest 5700 XT on amazon i saw was at $1200

I don't know what has changed recently because ebay has always higher prices than amazon.


----------



## Footman (Jan 5, 2022)

@N3M3515 Techspot has an interesting article about GPU pricing and availability for December in retail and Ebay. Looks like you were spot on with regard to the 6700XT. Ebay pricing on 5700XT is averaged at $900 based on sales for December.
I guess I lucked out big time on the 6700XT.


----------



## ratirt (Jan 5, 2022)

Cheapest I found in Norway and available for purchase, XFX 6700 XT speedster 12GB goes for 8995NOK which is $1017


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jan 5, 2022)

Energy costs are skyrocketing at the moment and I'm considering selling off my RX 5700 farm. AT $900 a pop I'm sitting on $22K of cards and it's never going to mine that much money before the mining market changes kick in.

The mad thing is that people are paying that much money for an RX5700 when an GTX 970 is about half the performance for under $200.


----------



## skizzo (Jan 5, 2022)

Footman said:


> Prices are stupid still!
> Managed to buy new, sealed in box AMD 6700XT from a guy on Ebay for $610. Stuck my older 5700XT on Ebay for shits and giggles and watched a shark frenzy, with the Powercolor 5700XT finally selling for $885! WTF.....
> 
> Suffice to say the 6700XT is running extremely well and I have enough money from the sale of the 5700XT to buy a new waterblock and PCI-E 4.0 riser cable.....



wow, I've been considering selling my RX 5700 XT to upgrade to RX 6XXX series and I have been investigating ebay too. I was shocked seeing new cards listed for over $1K and used ones are like you said regularly going for about $800-900 it looks like.

So seeing your post, gives me a little confidence I wouldn't have a problem selling it lol! But I am torn.....I don't want to be someone who overprices it and contributes to the shitty market situation by selling it.....or buying a card that is 50 - 100% marked up (but our hands are tied here, aren't they...there is no alternative besides not buying/selling). I got mine for MSRP $400 2 weeks after launch. Then put an EK water block on it so that is around another $150 investment in it, so say $600 (tax/shipping extra etc) or so is my cost into it. I have original box, and included stuff, especially the air cooler that came with it so if someone wants to they could remove the water block and install the air cooler instead.....and then sell the water block themselves I bet. I suppose it would be popular on the site

I could sell the 5700 XT and get a 6700 XT with the money I get! kinda weird both cards are going for identical prices most of the time. I'd have to consider the extra $200+ for the water block for 6700 XT though too....so I'm at like $1000 - 1200 cost to have a 6700 XT in my system......pretty fucking insane for a card announced at what, $475 I think?!


----------

