# ASUS Radeon RX 5700 XT STRIX OC



## W1zzard (Aug 12, 2019)

The ASUS Radeon RX 5700 XT STRIX OC is a huge improvement over the AMD reference design. It comes with an excellent cooler that reduces temperatures and noise levels at the same time, matching NVIDIA's offerings. Idle-fan-stop is included, too, and the factory overclock nets additional performance.

*Show full review*


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## mahoney (Aug 12, 2019)

Im guessing this will cost more than $500?


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## W1zzard (Aug 12, 2019)

mahoney said:


> Im guessing this will cost more than $500?


For $500 you can buy a 2070 SUPER.


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## HwGeek (Aug 12, 2019)

Any chance to test one of the  AIB cards with MorePowerTool with unlocked max Mem clock limit?








						igor´sLAB | PC & Components | Reviews & News
					

PC & Components | Reviews &




					www.igorslab.media
				




Great Review btw .


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## tfdsaf (Aug 12, 2019)

wow, this custom design 5700xt is so close to the RTX 2070super, its essentially tied with it in overall performance.


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## Ra97oR (Aug 12, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> For $500 you can buy a 2070 SUPER.


OCUK have it at pre order at £499 at the moment. Not sure if the price is placeholder or not but it is more expensive than a FE RTX2070 at £475.









						Asus Radeon RX 5700 XT ROG Strix OC 8GB GDDR6 PCI-Express Graphics Card
					

ROG-STRIX-RX5700XT-O8G-GAMING, Core Clock: 1840MHz, Boost Clock: 2035MHz, Memory: 8192MB 14000MHz GDDR6, Stream Processors: 2560, DirectX 12 Support, Vulkan Support, RDNA, Freesync 2 HDR support, 3yr




					www.overclockers.co.uk


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## HwGeek (Aug 12, 2019)

tfdsaf said:


> wow, this custom design 5700xt is so close to the RTX 2070super, its essentially tied with it in overall performance.


This is why I think AMD will take performance crown in [CES/Computex?] 2020 before Nvidia will release the 7nm parts, even if it will be only for a short time.


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## cucker tarlson (Aug 12, 2019)

mahoney said:


> Im guessing this will cost more than $500?


500 quid in GBP


0,7% oc headroom


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## Al Chafai (Aug 12, 2019)

tbh i am not that impressed.
specially if the price ends up adding 50$ or more to the price of the card.
i will wait for beefier Navi card.these were supposed to be RX 600 series and they were supposed to be cheaper.
thank you for the review.


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## dicktracy (Aug 12, 2019)

Navi: Not great. Not terrible.


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## cucker tarlson (Aug 12, 2019)

rx5700st strix is 5.2% faster than 5700xt +0,7% oc= 105.9% (1440p)
2070 super FE is 11,4% faster than 5700xt stock so  6,6% faster than 5700xt strix asus oc (1440p)
2070 Gaming X trio is 3% faster than 2070 fe + does 6% oc, so 15% faster than 5700xt strix oc. (1440p)
2070 trio is 10 degrees cooler and 8db quieter at stock or 15 degrees cooler and 4db quieter if 5700xt is on quiet bios.
both card draw around 230w in gaming load and similarly in idle,but 5700xt draws 26w more in multi monitor mode which probably means no fan stop when 2 or more monitors are connected.

looks like the card from asus is a dud at 500 quid,waiting for sapphire to deliver better acoustics and thermals.


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## tfdsaf (Aug 12, 2019)

Considering its their Strix brand with 3 fans, I expect this to be prices $50 more, especially initially when demand is high, so basically a reference 5700xt is still the better option at $400. Hopefully more AIB custom models end up being only $20 more.


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## bug (Aug 12, 2019)

> the card achieves a 5% performance improvement over the AMD reference design, which is quite solid


I feel so old when it looks like I'm the only one remembering when overclocking was done to gain 20-30% more MHz, thus enabling a $200 part to run as fast as a $500 part. 5% more performance for 10% more $$$ was something you wouldn't even look at back then (unless budget was not an issue).


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## kings (Aug 12, 2019)

What´s the point of Asus sending cards for review and not reveal the price?

Price is a key aspect when analyzing a product.


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## dj-electric (Aug 12, 2019)

kings said:


> What´s the point of Asus sending cards for review and not reveal the price?
> 
> Price is a key aspect when analyzing a product.




Maybe its something they are still not 100% sure about? especially regarding competition in this space from other AIBs. I really hope this card is sub 450$. There's the STRIX experience of having a card, but there's only so much you can ask from a model before you go into the territory of a faster one


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## IceShroom (Aug 12, 2019)

> No hardware-accelerated raytracing


When you write Ray tracing andantages for RTX cards then why not run games like Battelfield, Tumb Raider and Metro in DXR mode for RTX card and non DXR mode for those RX and GTX card??


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## bug (Aug 12, 2019)

kings said:


> What´s the point of Asus sending cards for review and not reveal the price?
> 
> Price is a key aspect when analyzing a product.


Well, it does say "Asus" on the box, doesn't it?


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## cucker tarlson (Aug 12, 2019)

IceShroom said:


> When you write Ray tracing andantages for RTX cards then why not run games like Battelfield, Tumb Raider and Metro in DXR mode for RTX card and non DXR mode for those RX and GTX card??



 what for



the card is already available to order in PL,8% cheaper than I bought my 2070 Super Trio,but ships in September


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## W1zzard (Aug 12, 2019)

kings said:


> What´s the point of Asus sending cards for review and not reveal the price?
> 
> Price is a key aspect when analyzing a product.


For some reason nearly all the vendors are extremely slow at providing price info, I wish I knew why.. I agree with you 100%, pricing is the most important aspect


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## Fluffmeister (Aug 12, 2019)

Seems to be pushed hard to be competitive, certainly not an overclocker's dream.... eek.


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## B-Real (Aug 12, 2019)

mahoney said:


> Im guessing this will cost more than $500?





W1zzard said:


> For $500 you can buy a 2070 SUPER.


It costs 500 pounds at OCUK. The same as the ASUS Strix 2060S.



W1zzard said:


> For $500 you can buy a 2070 SUPER.


Comparing the most expensive model of all manufacturers to the cheapest model of another product is not fair.


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## las (Aug 12, 2019)

tfdsaf said:


> wow, this custom design 5700xt is so close to the RTX 2070super, its essentially tied with it in overall performance.



Founders Edition RTX 2070 Super is 6% faster at 1440p than this custom 5700 XT and 2070 Super custom cards are 5% faster than founders edition, so no. Considering the terrible oc headroom (0.7% perf gained) I'd think even 2060 Super custom would beat this card when overclocked. Custom 2060 Super cards are on par with 2070 non-super out of the box, and still has ~10% oc headroom left.



IceShroom said:


> When you write Ray tracing andantages for RTX cards then why not run games like Battelfield, Tumb Raider and Metro in DXR mode for RTX card and non DXR mode for those RX and GTX card??



Why not test AMD on Ultra and Nvidia on Low?


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## B-Real (Aug 12, 2019)

las said:


> Founders Edition RTX 2070 Super is 6% faster at 1440p than this custom 5700 XT and 2070 Super custom cards are 5% faster than founders edition, so no. Considering the terrible oc headroom (0.7% perf gained) I'd think even 2060 Super custom would beat this card when overclocked. Custom 2060 Super cards are on par with 2070 non-super out of the box, and still has ~10% oc headroom left.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not test AMD on Ultra and Nvidia on Low?


I recommend to check more test sites for the RX 5700 XT's performance. They are much closer to the 2070S compared to the original TPU review. Techspot f. e. only measured 2% difference between the ref RX 5700XT and ref 2070S. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





And it also features a dozen games, not just 3-4. I love TPU and I start reading reviews here (and Guru3D) then go to Techspot, but I'm not really convinced of the newly selected games for the reviews. For example we have Ace Combat 7, which is a non-mainstream game and the performance of AMD cards there is pathetic (RX5700 is 10% behind a 1660Ti, WTF), while a more mainstream racing game, Forza is not included in the test (where AMD cards lead NV counterparts by nearly the same percentage as in AC7). I also don't really get why Darksiders 3 or Divinity Original Sin 2 is included.



dj-electric said:


> Maybe its something they are still not 100% sure about? especially regarding competition in this space from other AIBs. I really hope this card is sub 450$. There's the STRIX experience of having a card, but there's only so much you can ask from a model before you go into the territory of a faster one


Nope. This card is 500 pounds at OCUK, the SAME as the Strix 2060S.


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## ppn (Aug 12, 2019)

Yeah 2% or 9%, add 6% OC potential to that, 2070S still 10% faster.

$90 more than the ref for the cooler and the custom PCB same idea as the 2070S StriX oc also reviewed by TPU, and makes direct comparision possible, $490 looks realistic pricewise. But I wouldn't pay more than $299 for 256 bit card with 251 sq.mm chip. There is so much potential for a price drop that it will hurt me if it happends. The price is not the problem, the price drop too soon is the problem. And we have 6nm incoming,  with 18% better density and clocks next year. The 212 sq.mm shrink costing less than $249 and clocked 18% higher will hurt alot.


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## bug (Aug 12, 2019)

B-Real said:


> I recommend to check more test site's for the RX 5700 XT's performance. They are much closer to the 2070S compared to the original TPU review. Techspot f. e. only measured 2% difference between the ref RX 5700XT and ref 2070S.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Anand measured 5%: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14618/the-amd-radeon-rx-5700-xt-rx-5700-review/16
Only, this isn't about performance alone. If you get the 2070S, you get to play with RTX/DXR. If you get the 5700XT, you don't


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## B-Real (Aug 12, 2019)

bug said:


> Anand measured 5%: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14618/the-amd-radeon-rx-5700-xt-rx-5700-review/16
> Only, this isn't about performance alone. If you get the 2070S, you get to play with RTX/DXR. If you get the 5700XT, you don't


Yep, and here's a 11-12% difference between RX5700XT and 2070S (ref vs. ref). So more than double difference. Also, at Guru3D, there was a 9% difference between RX5700 and the 2060 in FHD as far as I remember (I summerized those results some weeks ago) and it was a bit more on 1440P (I didn't summerize it but I saw bigger differences in the fps) while TPU only showed 4% difference, which is also more than double difference. So if every (or nearly every) site's results are much closer to a 2070S in the case of the RX5700XT and much closer to the 2060S in the case of the RX5700, I think there is something wrong with the method of choosing the games here.

And you know that the 2070S is 100$ more, so you pay that extra way more times than what you get for it. Like 30ish minimums and 45ish average in FHD (!!!) when RT is enabled. Or only 3 games supporting RT for nearly 1 year since the release of the RTX cards. Plus reduction of graphics quality to achieve higher fps in RT enabled Battlefield V. Plus every game - except for Metro Exodus - launching without RT (including Wolfenstein: Youngblood lately), only getting it in a later patch.


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## las (Aug 12, 2019)

B-Real said:


> I recommend to check more test site's for the RX 5700 XT's performance. They are much closer to the 2070S compared to the original TPU review. Techspot f. e. only measured 2% difference between the ref RX 5700XT and ref 2070S.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Remove Forza Horizon 4 and Fortnite and the difference is 7%

A fully overclocked 2070 Super will be faster, cooler and quieter.

I expected way more from custom versions of 5700 XT, a mere 5% perf increase and NO OC HEADROOM whatsoever, disappointing.


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## W1zzard (Aug 12, 2019)

B-Real said:


> I think there is something wrong with the method of choosing the games here.


I constantly reevaluate my selection of games, don't worry. If you're not pleased with the results, just add x% to get your desired result.


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## B-Real (Aug 12, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> I constantly reevaluate my selection of games, don't worry. If you're not pleased with the results, just add x% to get your desired result.


I know Wizzard, and as I said TPU is the first with Guru3D i open for reviews as I love your site. 



las said:


> Remove Forza Horizon 4 and Fortnite and the difference is 7%
> 
> A fully overclocked 2070 Super will be faster, cooler and quieter.
> 
> I expected way more from custom versions of 5700 XT, a mere 5% perf increase and NO OC HEADROOM whatsoever, disappointing.



Why should I remove any of them? Faster? If you check half a dozen reviews, you will see that the RX5700XT is nearly as fast as a 2070S (2-5% difference). Cooler? Wow, yes, it is 77 degrees. The ref was 15 degrees higher here. 77 C is an absolutely good result for a card with this high performance. Quiter? Check the Strix 2070S then. 29 vs 32, 34 vs 36 dB. This is nearly nothing. Most games use headphones or an 5.1. I bet you won't tell which GPU is in the rig if you test it. The Strix 5700XT is 1 dB quieter than the 2070S. And you get this for $100 less.


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## Zubasa (Aug 12, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> For $500 you can buy a 2070 SUPER.


But you can't buy an Asus 2070 Super 
Asus logic 101.



IceShroom said:


> So that people can see how many frames they are getting with RTX, as Nvidia fans always brings RTX as a advantageous feature for Nvidia.


It is an extra feature, but the issue is when people view RTX eye candy and RTX Performance hit each in a vacuum.
In some fantasy world where they think they are getting better performance and extra eye candy both at the same time.


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## IceShroom (Aug 12, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> what for


So that people can see how many frames they are getting with RTX, as Nvidia fans always brings RTX as a advantageous feature for Nvidia.


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## nguyen (Aug 12, 2019)

B-Real said:


> I recommend to check more test sites for the RX 5700 XT's performance. They are much closer to the 2070S compared to the original TPU review. Techspot f. e. only measured 2% difference between the ref RX 5700XT and ref 2070S.
> And it also features a dozen games, not just 3-4. I love TPU and I start reading reviews here (and Guru3D) then go to Techspot, but I'm not really convinced of the newly selected games for the reviews. For example we have Ace Combat 7, which is a non-mainstream game and the performance of AMD cards there is pathetic (RX5700 is 10% behind a 1660Ti, WTF), while a more mainstream racing game, Forza is not included in the test (where AMD cards lead NV counterparts by nearly the same percentage as in AC7). I also don't really get why Darksiders 3 or Divinity Original Sin 2 is included.
> Nope. This card is 500 pounds at OCUK, the SAME as the Strix 2060S.



Lol I had problems with Techspot game selection actually, they intentionally removed game that favor Nvidia but have huge player bases (PUBG, GTA V, Frostpunk, No Man Sky, etc...) while retain AMD games that literally no one play anymore in their big benchmarks (Sniper Elite 4, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, Strange Brigade, etc...). Really if any site keep benchmarking dead games I might as well look at 3Dmark score.

For reference here is my steam games


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## B-Real (Aug 12, 2019)

nguyen said:


> Lol I had problems with Techspot game selection actually, they intentionally removed game that favor Nvidia but have huge player bases (PUBG, GTA V, Frostpunk, No Man Sky, etc...) while retain AMD games that literally no one play anymore in their big benchmarks (Sniper Elite 4, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, Strange Brigade, etc...). Really if any site keep benchmarking dead games I might as well look at 3Dmark score.
> 
> For reference here is my steam gamesView attachment 129080


Nearly every site removed GTA V from its lineup, including TPU and Guru3D. And if you check it, you will see that nearly no sites use PUBG as a benchmark, as it is an absolute trash for benchmarking.


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## Zubasa (Aug 12, 2019)

B-Real said:


> Nearly every site removed GTA V from its lineup, including TPU and Guru3D. And if you check it, you will see that nearly no sites use PUBG as a benchmark, as it is an absolute trash for benchmarking.


Especially when GTA5 have been shown to have stuttering issue with high FPS due to the engine.


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## B-Real (Aug 12, 2019)

las said:


> Remove Forza Horizon 4 and Fortnite and the difference is 7%
> 
> A fully overclocked 2070 Super will be faster, cooler and quieter.
> 
> I expected way more from custom versions of 5700 XT, a mere 5% perf increase and NO OC HEADROOM whatsoever, disappointing.


Check this then from the Strix 5700XT Guru3D review:


			https://www.guru3d.com/index.php?ct=articles&action=file&id=53459
		






You can achieve +5% by tweaking (UV).

I'm buying an AIB for being cooler and quieter, not for being faster as you can OC reference cards too. This Strix does that. However, it's way too expensive. I'm waiting for the reference priced Powercolor, the XFX Thicc, and of course the Sapphire Pulse and Nitro+.


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## nguyen (Aug 12, 2019)

B-Real said:


> Nearly every site removed GTA V from its lineup, including TPU and Guru3D. And if you check it, you will see that nearly no sites use PUBG as a benchmark, as it is an absolute trash for benchmarking.



Yeah GTA V ? 








						The AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT & RX 5700 Review: Navi Renews Competition in the Midrange Market
					






					www.anandtech.com
				











						AMD Radeon RX 5700 and 5700 XT review
					

In this review, we look at the two new graphics cards released by AMD, the Radeon 5700 and 5700 XT. Both cards are based on the new NAVI GPU, fabricated at a 7nm node and capable of battling with NVI... DX11: Grand Theft Auto V




					www.guru3d.com
				




PUBG and Fortnite are basically the same so yeah either way is fine. Plenty of youtubers still bench PUBG.
If you happen to look at steam game player stats








						Steam Charts
					

Top selling and top played games across Steam




					store.steampowered.com
				



you will find out how many players still play PUBG, GTA V, Monster Hunter World, No Man's Sky, World of Tanks, War Thunder, Arma 3, Frostpunk, For Honor, etc...and Techspot decided to remove them from the benchmark pool for the sake of who knows what (they had those results before).


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## mahoney (Aug 12, 2019)

B-Real said:


> I recommend to check more test sites for the RX 5700 XT's performance. They are much closer to the 2070S compared to the original TPU review. Techspot f. e. only measured 2% difference between the ref RX 5700XT and ref 2070S.


Mate take a closer look at the games HUB selected. At least 7 of them are favorable to AMD gpu's. Don't believe me? Check the Vega 56 vs Gtx 1080 on the same chart list.
When Steve does the 30+ benchmarks of the AIB versions you'll se the 5700Xt being almost equal to the Rtx 2070


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## nguyen (Aug 12, 2019)

Yeah and when benching new games HUB would conveniently omit any Nvidia favor games (TW Three Kingdoms, A Plague Tale, Vampyr, etc...). So yeah I'm trusting TPU results rather than HUB.


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## Imsochobo (Aug 12, 2019)

HwGeek said:


> This is why I think AMD will take performance crown in [CES/Computex?] 2020 before Nvidia will release the 7nm parts, even if it will be only for a short time.



definitely as you can just add memory bandwidth and stream processors and dial clocks down and viola it will do it!


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## ChristTheGreat (Aug 12, 2019)

So depending on the CAN price, I guess this will be my next card so I can use freesync.

I have a GTX 1070 strix, and my msi monitor flash in some games (low fps, like loading) with gsync compatible enable. Too bad, the other before the RMA was working fine


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## OC-Ghost (Aug 12, 2019)

Finnish e-tailer Jimms.fi has STRIX version at 589€, w/o 24% tax 448€, current EUR-to-USD 501,85$
And a TUF version at about 40€/45$ cheaper with clock speed TBD, sauce
Estimated shipping dates says not confirmed, for both currently.


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## Zubasa (Aug 12, 2019)

mahoney said:


> Mate take a closer look at the games HUB selected. At least 7 of them are favorable to AMD gpu's. Don't believe me? Check the Vega 56 vs Gtx 1080 on the same chart list.
> When Steve does the 30+ benchmarks of the AIB versions you'll se the 5700Xt being almost equal to the Rtx 2070





nguyen said:


> Yeah and when benching new games HUB would conveniently omit any Nvidia favor games (TW Three Kingdoms, A Plague Tale, Vampyr, etc...). So yeah I'm trusting TPU results rather than HUB.


I "like" how both of you are bashing HUB which have no relation to TPU at all in a post about W1zzard's review.


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## nguyen (Aug 12, 2019)

Zubasa said:


> I "like" how both of you are bashing HUB which have no relation to TPU at all in a post about W1zzard's review.



Well it was a response to B-Real who thinks W1zzard's games selection were silly lol. Should have hit the reply button :/.


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## las (Aug 12, 2019)

B-Real said:


> Check this then from the Strix 5700XT Guru3D review:
> 
> 
> https://www.guru3d.com/index.php?ct=articles&action=file&id=53459
> ...



You can barely OC the reference 5700 XT unless you want to go deaf - Founders 2070 Super OC's just fine tho.

I'm not really impressed with Navi so far. My 1080 Ti from early 2017 easily beats it, running at 2+ GHz in 3D. Closing in on 3 years now.

2020 is going to be a big year for GPU's. Intel dGPU's. Nvidia 7nm (Samsung EUV) Ampere and bigger Navi chips. Only decent upgrade for me now is the 2080 Ti, but no way. Ampere + 7nm is going to bring a huge leap in perf.

AMD better be right about that "Nvidia Killer" ... because AMD is going to face serious competition next year.


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## cucker tarlson (Aug 12, 2019)

IceShroom said:


> So that people can see how many frames they are getting with RTX, as Nvidia fans always brings RTX as a advantageous feature for Nvidia.


well with radeon you're getting 0 
I really don't see the point of doing rtx testing in navi review,sorry.


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## bug (Aug 12, 2019)

las said:


> You can barely OC the reference 5700 XT unless you want to go deaf - Founders 2070 Super OC's just fine tho.


But now you can overclock custom designs as well 



las said:


> I'm not really impressed with Navi so far. My 1080 Ti from early 2017 easily beats it, running at 2+ GHz in 3D. Closing in on 3 years now.


While that is true, Navi has closed some of the gap between AMD and Nvidia: 5700 is slightly more efficient than the 2060, while 5700XT is within spitting distance of 2070S that sells for $100 more (it's not as efficient as its sibling, but that's another story).
Navi doesn't put on Nvidia the pressure we need, but other than that, it turned out better than I was expecting.


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## selyn (Aug 12, 2019)

Hi all, 

I saw the test of this ASUS Rx 5700xt and in 1440p is not bad , but I'm thinking if this vga is good also with 1440p ultrawide...I think that I lose about 10fps from 1440p 16:9. 
Now I have GTX 1080 with CPU Ryzen 3700x , MSI X570 gaming plus and ram Gskill Trident Z 3200mhz (Bdie).

What do you think? is a good upgrade?  
Nvidia 2070 super now cost 600 euro
5700xt custom 450/500 euro , if the leak are true. 

Thanks


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## epiqpnwage (Aug 12, 2019)

B-Real said:


> Comparing the most expensive model of all manufacturers to the cheapest model of another product is not fair.



It is fair. You can buy the cheapest model of.the 2070 super and it will still be better than the strix. 
Sam thinf with the sapphire 5700xt pulse. I'd rather buy that than the asus strix 5700xt.


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## IceShroom (Aug 12, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> well with radeon you're getting 0
> I really don't see the point of doing rtx testing in navi review,sorry.


Radeon dont market DXR as feature but Nvidia does. So games that support DXR, should be tested with DXR on RTX cards and should reflect in how much % in the graph.


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## cucker tarlson (Aug 12, 2019)

IceShroom said:


> Radeon dont market DXR as feature but Nvidia does. So games that support DXR, should be tested with DXR on RTX cards and should reflect in how much % in the graph.


it's done properly on the same card,e.g. gtx 2080 dxr on vs off
geforce dxr on vs navi dxr off is stupid,I don't know what else to call such test.


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## [XC] Oj101 (Aug 12, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> geforce dxr on vs navi dxr off is stupid,I don't know what else to call such test.


How about "Show AMD in a better light"?


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## cucker tarlson (Aug 12, 2019)

[XC] Oj101 said:


> How about "Show AMD in a better light"?


how is that better light?
same way one might test 2070 medium vs 5700xt ultra


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## [XC] Oj101 (Aug 12, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> how is that better light?
> same way one might test 2070 medium vs 5700xt ultra



I'm agreeing with you. The only reason to test DXR on NVIDIA vs DXR off AMD is if you're pushing an agenda.


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## cucker tarlson (Aug 12, 2019)

[XC] Oj101 said:


> I'm agreeing with you. The only reason to test DXR on NVIDIA vs DXR off AMD is if you're pushing an agenda.


it's additional work for W1zzard just to make some people feel good about not buying a dxr capable card.



IceShroom said:


> Radeon dont market DXR as feature but Nvidia does. So games that support DXR, should be tested with DXR on RTX cards and should reflect in how much % in the graph.



testing dxr in a navi review ? are you f***ing kidding me ?
you know you can turn off dxr and make it an even field for a traditional test ?


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## HD64G (Aug 12, 2019)

Guys in ASUS aren't doing well for their GPU segment at least in the AMD side. So much pricier for such a small increase in performance isn't a good placed product. Most of the custom 5700XTs will be closer to the ref's price and will sell much better imho. ROG brand has become the apple of PC world me thinks.


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## jabbadap (Aug 12, 2019)

[XC] Oj101 said:


> I'm agreeing with you. The only reason to test DXR on NVIDIA vs DXR off AMD is if you're pushing an agenda.



Yeah that would void whole review... DXR can be added to reviews, when AMD releases RDNA2 cards with hw accelerated DXR. But even then you can't bench all older cards with that on. So probably in future reviews, there will be DXR-only part with the cards that supports it and good'ol'raster part for the all of the cards.


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## medi01 (Aug 12, 2019)

dicktracy said:


> Navi: Not great.


Yeah.

2070super performance for $100 less.
A 250mm2 7nm chip vs 550mm2 12nm chip.
Totally not great.


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## mahoney (Aug 12, 2019)

Zubasa said:


> I "like" how both of you are bashing HUB which have no relation to TPU at all in a post about W1zzard's review.




Im not shitting on HUB it's just that his selection was weird plus he only did a 12 game benchmark. Cause of that vid a lot of people think that the 5700xt is close to 2070super when in reality it's even with the 2070.


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## cucker tarlson (Aug 12, 2019)

mahoney said:


> Im not shitting on HUB it's just that selection was weird plus he only did a 12 game benchmark. Cause of that vid a lot of people think that the 5700xt is close to 2070super when in reality it's even with the 2070 when you don't cherrypick


well HUB are on yt,they pretty much have to do it or they'll get shat on and downvoted by fanboys.TPU is my #1 place to go when it comes to GPU reviews,same as PCGH.
+20 games,3 resolutions.Both show 2070S more than 10% faster than 5700xt and 15% oc vs oc.


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## mahoney (Aug 12, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> well HUB are on yt,they pretty much have to do it or they'll get shat on and downvoted by fanboys.TPU is my #1 place to go when it comes to GPU reviews,same as PCGH.
> +20 games,3 resolutions.Both show 2070S more than 10% faster than 5700xt and 15% oc vs oc.


HUB=Techspot


----------



## cucker tarlson (Aug 12, 2019)

mahoney said:


> HUB=Techspot


I know


----------



## jabbadap (Aug 12, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> well HUB are on yt,they pretty much have to do it or they'll get shat on by fanboys.TPU is my #1 place to go when it comes to GPU reviews,same as PCGH.
> +20 games,3 resolutions.Both show 2070S more than 10% faster than 5700xt.



Well Techspot will do more reviews, they have usually done some 30 games or so on graphics card reviews(Heck they did 36 game benchmarks for two processors...). It was just holiday season and too many product launched in short notice and time. But yeah when they finally bench more games, their percentages most likely will start to be more close to sites that have much more games benched than they have now.


----------



## nguyen (Aug 12, 2019)

jabbadap said:


> Well Techspot will do more reviews, they have usually done some 30 games or so on graphics card reviews(Heck they did 36 game benchmarks for two processors...). It was just holiday season and too many product launched in short notice and time. But yeah when they finally bench more games, their percentages most likely will start to be more close to sites that have much more games benched than they have now.



Nah HUB mega games benchmarks are still very favorable for AMD, best just look at results of games that you care about. Funny thing was they removed all games that I actually play ) (that favor Nvidia)


----------



## cucker tarlson (Aug 12, 2019)

nguyen said:


> Nah HUB mega games benchmarks are still very favorable for AMD, best just look at results of games that you care about. Funny thing was they removed all games that I actually play ) (that favor Nvidia)


look at their FH4 result.26% ?
pcgh shows 10%


----------



## Vya Domus (Aug 12, 2019)

IceShroom said:


> Radeon dont market DXR as feature but Nvidia does. So games that support DXR, should be tested with DXR on RTX cards and should reflect in how much % in the graph.



Agreed.

If DXR makes it into the list of disadvantages of an AMD card *then surely that means you can include DXR into this discussions on both sides, therefore this is an objective metric that can and should be measured and taken into account.* If it's a negative point for AMD then this means that under normal circumstances this is considered a beneficial thing, right ? If that's the case at the very least reviews should include results with DXR on and off.

There is no question this would make things confusing but that's what you get if you really want to include fringe features and be fair about it. Why tout something constantly while simultaneously obfuscating it's downsides ? This is a particularly one sided way to go about it, not necessarily for Nvidia but in general towards everyone that might consider this aspect.

I do have to say though, AMD did learn something from the past here with regards to obscure features that may or may not be worthwhile, namely their past experience with tessellation. They can easily introduce a compatibility layer and make DXR available on their cards, but why do it when they know that this is going to get hammered to death. AMD partially disarmed Nvidia here in that they chose not to play catch with them, sneaky bastards.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Aug 12, 2019)

Vya Domus said:


> Agreed.
> 
> If DXR makes it into the list of disadvantages of an AMD card then what am I to gather from that ? That under normal circumstances this is considered a beneficial thing, right ? If that's the case at the very least reviews should include results with DXR on and off.
> 
> There is no question this would make things confusing but that's what you get if you really want to include fringe features and be fair about it. Why tout something constantly while simultaneously obfuscating it's downsides ? This is a particularly one sided way to go about it, not necessarily for Nvidia but in general towards everyone that might consider this aspect.


lol,but it's a performance review,not an opinion essay on visual fidelity,what don't you understand about that ? to mention dxr compatibility in conclusion in the best way to do it.


----------



## danbert2000 (Aug 12, 2019)

It looks like a max overclocked 5700 XT will still be a bit slower than a 2070 Super reference, which can then overclock ~10%. So I would hope that with that and the lack of DXR, Asus prices this sanely. And that would mean putting as much space as possible between the $500 2070 Supers and the maxed out 5700 XTs.


----------



## tajoh111 (Aug 12, 2019)

B-Real said:


> Check this then from the Strix 5700XT Guru3D review:
> 
> 
> https://www.guru3d.com/index.php?ct=articles&action=file&id=53459
> ...



Why be dishonest and try to mask a overclocked result as an undervolted one.









						ASUS Radeon RX 5700 XT ROG STRIX review
					

Meet the ASUS Radeon RX 5700 XT ROG STRIX that we review today. It has increased clocks, increased looks and well is just customized all the way. Fabricated at a 7nm node and capable of battling with ... Overclocking the graphics card




					www.guru3d.com
				




Here is the original source material which you did not link to directly conveniently, just the image.

A 2100-2150mhz, 950mhz memory and 1.2 voltage + 50% powerlimit is not an underclock in any way.

Did you just look for overclocked results that said tweak and try to pass it on as an undervolt?

You can cheer for team red if you want but don't compromise your morals and lie for a company. It makes not only you look bad but the rest of the red fan base.


----------



## Vya Domus (Aug 12, 2019)

I don't see how the act of undervolting wouldn't fall in the same category with overclocking or tweaking or whatever. 

You are making a product operate out of spec by modifying it's parameters, the rest is just semantics.


----------



## bug (Aug 12, 2019)

jabbadap said:


> Yeah that would void whole review... DXR can be added to reviews, when AMD releases RDNA2 cards with hw accelerated DXR. But even then you can't bench all older cards with that on. So probably in future reviews, there will be DXR-only part with the cards that supports it and good'ol'raster part for the all of the cards.


You _can_ add RTX/DXR to reviews if only to compare RTX cards among them. Or to look at the visual improvements it provides. I'm guessing it's all about the ROI (time to run additional benches vs additional page clicks gained).


----------



## tajoh111 (Aug 12, 2019)

Vya Domus said:


> I don't see how the act of undervolting wouldn't fall in the same category with overclocking or tweaking or whatever.
> 
> You are making a product operate out of spec by modifying it's parameters, the rest is just semantics.



Because the performance gained though the link was done through overclocking, not undervolting.

To say overclocking and undervolting are the same thing is delusional. While the former leads to higher power consumption, heat and maximum gains in performance, the latter leads to modest gains with the benefit of lower power consumption(or similar) and less noise.

The above guru3d performance results were from overclocking, not undervolting as the original poster implied.

To say we can post any performance results and label them the term most favorable to AMD because it falls underneath the umbrella is erroneous and makes me question how powerful and deep AMD's viral marketing runs. You can't mix and match the performance results from overclocking the 5700xt and mix it with the implied benefit of undervolting. Why lie.

If someone were to follow your logic, with the umbrella term of tweaking(undervolting, overclocking are the same), someone could post LN2 results and say they undervolted because both are running out of spec and all tweaks are equal. It's ultra ridiculous. Your making team red look bed if your don't see the horrible logic behind your post.


----------



## Vya Domus (Aug 12, 2019)

tajoh111 said:


> Because the performance gained though the link was done through overclocking, not undervolting.
> 
> To say overclocking and undervolting are the same thing is delusional. While the former leads to higher power consumption, heat and maximum gains in performance, the latter leads to modest gains with the benefit of lower power consumption(or similar) and less noise.
> 
> ...



Really ?

Let's look at three scenarios :

You undervolt a card and you make it use less power which in turn makes it run at _higher clocks than normal._
You increase it's power limit from the default value which in turn makes it run at _higher clocks than normal._
You increase the voltage and frequency manually which in turn makes it run at _higher clocks than normal._

Are you really going to make the argument that only the third case is an overclock even though they all have the same result ? Indeed all you are doing is tweaking voltages,power limits, frequencies, etc. Everything you do that has the effect to cause an increase in clock speed is an overclock, this is fact. You said it yourself, undervolting leads to modest gains but gains nonetheless.

Are you annoyed that all this dynamic clockspeed business has made it so that now performance can no longer be gained in one and only one way ? Complain to every GPU manufacturer out there not to us. AMD may be the only ones that allow for explicit undervolting but you should be aware Nvidia does the same thing automatically under the hood with their cards to try and reach higher clocks out of the box, it's part of their boost algorithm.

And for the record I didn't reference this towards whatever was posted in the comment you were replying to, my point is simply that all this falls under the same act of changing the operating parameters of a product to get some sort of desired result. Unfortunately it is no longer as simple as it once used to be, this debate is tremendously stupid, let it go.



tajoh111 said:


> Your making team red look bed if your don't see the horrible logic behind your post.



I would never do that, I am more of a couch person. Also did you just assume the color of my team ? I feel offended.


----------



## Redwoodz (Aug 13, 2019)

bug said:


> Anand measured 5%: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14618/the-amd-radeon-rx-5700-xt-rx-5700-review/16
> Only, this isn't about performance alone. If you get the 2070S, you get to play with RTX/DXR. If you get the 5700XT, you don't




  Then the report should inc. DXR on. You can't tout a feature then leave it off during performance reviews. LMAO.


----------



## Crackong (Aug 13, 2019)

Vya Domus said:


> Agreed.
> 
> If DXR makes it into the list of disadvantages of an AMD card *then surely that means you can include DXR into this discussions on both sides, therefore this is an objective metric that can and should be measured and taken into account.* If it's a negative point for AMD then this means that under normal circumstances this is considered a beneficial thing, right ? If that's the case at the very least reviews should include results with DXR on and off.



Agreed.

If the current gimmick RTRT feature is considered as an advantage, the test must show how it affects performance.
Also RIS should be on the advantage list and DLSS on the disadvantage list.
Then add 85% RIS vs DLSS results in all game tests.


----------



## Kovoet (Aug 13, 2019)

Might give this a go when out in the UK


----------



## medi01 (Aug 13, 2019)

B-Real said:


> For example we have Ace Combat 7, which is a non-mainstream game and the performance of AMD cards there is pathetic (RX5700 is 10% behind a 1660Ti, WTF), while a more mainstream racing game, Forza is not included in the test (where AMD cards lead NV counterparts by nearly the same percentage as in AC7)


I wish @W1zzard would elaborate on the former. (not including something is understandable, including non-mainstream with harsh perf penalty is not).


----------



## W1zzard (Aug 13, 2019)

medi01 said:


> I wish @W1zzard would elaborate on the former. (not including something is understandable, including non-mainstream with harsh perf penalty is not).


Ace Combat 7 was released, giving us a "flight sim" option for our benchmarks. So I added it, didn't know anything about performance numbers until I retested it on all cards. Now it sucks on AMD, do I remove it for that reason?

Forza is only available on the horrible Microsoft Store, which I refuse to use


----------



## las (Aug 13, 2019)

bug said:


> But now you can overclock custom designs as well
> 
> 
> While that is true, Navi has closed some of the gap between AMD and Nvidia: 5700 is slightly more efficient than the 2060, while 5700XT is within spitting distance of 2070S that sells for $100 more (it's not as efficient as its sibling, but that's another story).
> Navi doesn't put on Nvidia the pressure we need, but other than that, it turned out better than I was expecting.











						ASUS Radeon RX 5700 XT STRIX OC Review
					

The ASUS Radeon RX 5700 XT STRIX OC is a huge improvement over the AMD reference design. It comes with an excellent cooler that reduces temperatures and noise levels at the same time, matching NVIDIA's offerings. Idle-fan-stop is included, too, and the factory overclock nets additional performance.




					www.techpowerup.com
				











						Sapphire Radeon RX 5700 XT Pulse Review
					

The Sapphire Radeon RX 5700 XT Pulse is equipped with a factory overclock and features a much better thermal solution than the AMD reference design. The card not only runs a lot quieter as temperatures are better than on any other RX 5700 XT we've tested so far, and idle fan stop is included, too.




					www.techpowerup.com
				




Barely... Proper 2060 Super and 2070 Super custom cards does ~10% on top of the ~5% out of the box compared to Founders Edition.

Tbh I'm not impressed with any of the these cards and I'm not buying anything before next year. My 1080 Ti still holds up and performs like a RTX 2080 or so.

Ampere 7nm is going to be a big leap.


----------



## medi01 (Aug 13, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> Now it sucks on AMD, do I remove it for that reason?


It depends on how you chose games for the set.
My understanding was that they should be representative of what typical gamers plays.
Regardless, 2070S being 50% faster in that bench  should be raising eyebrows.



W1zzard said:


> Forza is only available on the horrible Microsoft Store, which I refuse to use






las said:


> Barely... Proper 2060 Super and *2070 Super custom cards does ~10%* on top of the ~5% out of the box compared to Founders Edition.



Which one of them?
TPU saw 4% GPU overclock on 2070S ASUS Strix OC.


----------



## las (Aug 13, 2019)

medi01 said:


> It depends on how you chose games for the set.
> My understanding was that they should be representative of what typical gamers plays.
> Regardless, 2070S being 50% faster in that bench  should be raising eyebrows.
> 
> ...



All of them. Look at the Overclocking section and compare the OC number with the stock number.
It's 12-15% on pretty much all cards tested, compared to founders.

Now do the same with the two custom 5700 XT cards tested here.
5% perf gained compared to reference.


----------



## kapone32 (Aug 13, 2019)

One of the things that whelm me about comparing GPUs in forums is the lack in discussions of price factor. Below are 2 examples

https://www.newegg.ca/sapphire-rade...5700XT&cm_re=RX_5700XT-_-14-202-341-_-Product 









						MSI GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER Video Card RTX 2070 SUPER GAMING X TRIO - Newegg.com
					

Buy MSI GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 PCI Express 3.0 x16 SLI Support Video Card RTX 2070 SUPER GAMING X TRIO with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.ca
				





There are no AIB cards available yet but I have heard $10 to $50 premiums, even then they are a great deal 

I looked for the cheapest RTX 2070 Super I could find. The Founders edition is over $1000.00 at 50% off 









						NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER Founders Edition - 8GB GDDR6 1770 MHz RAM - 2560 Cores - Ray Tracing - DirectX 12 - DP/HDMI/DVI-DL - VR Ready - Newegg.com
					

Buy NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER Founders Edition - 8GB GDDR6 1770 MHz RAM - 2560 Cores - Ray Tracing - DirectX 12 - DP/HDMI/DVI-DL - VR Ready with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.ca
				




This is why for me anyway that the 5700 and 5700XT are absolutely fantastic cards. Just as fast as the Vega 7 at 1/2 the cost!!?? What is not to like. As much as people like to these cards are supposed to take on the the 2060 to 2080 non super cards.


----------



## medi01 (Aug 13, 2019)

las said:


> > TPU saw 4% GPU overclock on 2070S ASUS Strix OC.
> 
> 
> All of them. Look at the Overclocking section and compare the OC number with the stock number.
> It's 12-15% on pretty much all cards tested, compared to founders.









Let me repeat for particularly slow: TPU saw 4% GPU overclock on 2070S ASUS Strix OC.

See that 4%? That's a figure. That is by how much GPU was overclocked.
See that 4% has color different than the rest of the text? That is because it is a link (to the respective article).

It ain't hard, is it?

Now, the MSI X Trio: TPU saw 3% GPU overclock on it.
See that 3%? That's a figure. That is by how much GPU was overclocked.
See that 3% has color different than the rest of the text? That is because it is a link (to the respective article)

Let me know if you have further questions.


----------



## las (Aug 13, 2019)

medi01 said:


> Let me repeat for particularly slow: TPU saw 4% GPU overclock on 2070S ASUS Strix OC.
> 
> See that 4%? That's a figure. That is by how much GPU was overclocked.
> See that 4% has color different than the rest of the text? That is because it is a link (to the respective article).
> ...











						ASUS GeForce RTX 2070 Super STRIX OC Review
					

ASUS put the Super on a fully loaded ROG Strix OC board with DirectCU III cooling that's originally built for GPUs using the RTX 2080. Our testing shows impressive performance gains from the overclock out of the box, and the card runs very quietly, too.




					www.techpowerup.com
				




I'm talking about PERFORMANCE, not GPU OC percent, because WHO CARES. You can't use that for ANYTHING because of GPU Boost and power limiters. You new to this or something?

Performance GAINED is *14.2%* compared to founders edition.

Oh yeah... You are absolutely clueless I see.


----------



## medi01 (Aug 13, 2019)

las said:


> I'm talking about PERFORMANCE (joking, I actually have no freaking idea what I'm rambling about)








No problem dude. See this picture?






See the blue line in it? That's how FE card performs. See the green/blue ones? Those are Strix OC ones. If you substract figures that are to the left of % sign, you'd get rough idea of the performance difference.

And one more time, MSI:







See that blue bar? That is how FE version performs.
See the green one? That's MSI Tri X something something performance. Again, to the left of % sign, you can see figures, If you substract figures that are to the left of % sign, you'd get rough idea of the performance difference.

Let me know if you have more questions!


----------



## kapone32 (Aug 13, 2019)

las said:


> ASUS GeForce RTX 2070 Super STRIX OC Review
> 
> 
> ASUS put the Super on a fully loaded ROG Strix OC board with DirectCU III cooling that's originally built for GPUs using the RTX 2080. Our testing shows impressive performance gains from the overclock out of the box, and the card runs very quietly, too.
> ...



Isn't the 2070 Super on the same Turing die as the 2080? Comparing a full Turing card to a cut down one would at least yield what you are talking about. I notice that you seem to be not impressed with Navi. I expect that if Navi were to give the 2080TI performance for the price that you might be mildly impressed.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Aug 13, 2019)

Regional pricing variations aside, the 5700XT exists in its market segment below the 2070S at $500 MSRP.

No amount of overclocking, overvolting, and ambitions cooling is going to make a 5700XT a threat to even the base-model 2070S cards. Even if on paper, the 5700XT only needs a 15% overclock to match a 2070S, that'll be at the screaming, near-death limit of even this overkill cooler and VRMs of this STRIX model. And that's a bone-stock, reference/entry 2070S model before its own overclocking - the very worst of which can still overclock by another 150MHz (better/luckier samples are seeing 250MHz+ overclocks).

Some people want to pay a premium for flashy lighting and factory overclocked performance but that premium is worthless if it costs more than an objectively better product that's higher up the food chain. If I can use a car analogy, there's no point buying $20K of aftermarket bolt-ons and cosmetics for a cheap car when you could just buy a car that's $20K more expensive in the first place with a better engine, chassis and handling right out of the factory. Not only is it nicer to look at, drive, and own - it also is a better starting point if you want to start modifying it down the line.


----------



## kapone32 (Aug 13, 2019)

Chrispy_ said:


> Regional pricing variations aside, the 5700XT exists in its market segment below the 2070S at $500 MSRP.
> 
> No amount of overclocking, overvolting, and ambitions cooling is going to make a 5700XT a threat to even the base-model 2070S cards. Even if on paper, the 5700XT only needs a 15% overclock to match a 2070S, that'll be at the screaming, near-death limit of even this overkill cooler and VRMs of this STRIX model. And that's a bone-stock, reference/entry 2070S model before its own overclocking - the very worst of which can still overclock by another 150MHz (better/luckier samples are seeing 250MHz+ overclocks).
> 
> Some people want to pay a premium for flashy lighting and factory overclocked performance but that premium is worthless if it costs more than an objectively better product that's higher up the food chain. If I can use a car analogy, there's no point buying $20K of aftermarket bolt-ons and cosmetics for a cheap car when you could just buy a car that's $20K more expensive in the first place with a better engine, chassis and handling right out of the factory. Not only is it nicer to look at, drive, and own - it also is a better starting point if you want to start modifying it down the line.



In my opinion the best thing to do with Navi is get a reference card (when they drop in price) and put a water block on it. You may not see an improvement in overall speed but the noise issue would be gone and the "heat" issue would become a non factor.


----------



## las (Aug 13, 2019)

medi01 said:


> No problem dude. See this picture?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hahah. You know there's a difference between out of the box performance and OC'ed performance right?

That's what the Overclocking section is for. Less memes, more thinking.









						ASUS Radeon RX 5700 XT STRIX OC Review
					

The ASUS Radeon RX 5700 XT STRIX OC is a huge improvement over the AMD reference design. It comes with an excellent cooler that reduces temperatures and noise levels at the same time, matching NVIDIA's offerings. Idle-fan-stop is included, too, and the factory overclock nets additional performance.




					www.techpowerup.com
				




Actual 3D performance gained from overclocking is 0.7%.


----------



## medi01 (Aug 13, 2019)

Chrispy_ said:


> Regional pricing variations aside, the 5700XT exists in its market segment below the 2070S at $500 MSRP.
> 
> No amount of overclocking, overvolting, and ambitions cooling is going to make a 5700XT a threat to even the base-model 2070S cards.



It can't beat or come close because... it is pricier?






Are you from planet Earth, son?








las said:


> Hahah. You know there's a difference between out of the box performance and OC'ed performance right?
> 
> That's what the Overclocking section is for


Yep. That's what 4% and 3% post was about.


----------



## las (Aug 13, 2019)

kapone32 said:


> In my opinion the best thing to do with Navi is get a reference card (when they drop in price) and put a water block on it. You may not see an improvement in overall speed but the noise issue would be gone and the "heat" issue would become a non factor.



And waste money on a waterblock, for a mid-end GPU..?



medi01 said:


> Yep. That's what 4% and 3% post was about.



...and 2070 Super Founders/Stock is still 5% faster than custom 5700 XT (adding in the 0.7% perf gained from additional OC on the 5700 XT - An Overclockers Dream).


----------



## kapone32 (Aug 13, 2019)

las said:


> And waste money on a waterblock, for a mid-end GPU..?
> 
> You are calling a card that is the fastest card that AMD has released Mid range.....vs let me guess the 2070S, 2080, 2080TI cards that are all more expensive. Water blocks were released for Navi as soon as they were released we had to wait a year to get them with Vega so the manufacturers of those parts knew something.
> 
> You may think that it is a waste of money but it is not that expensive and does lead to noticeable improvement in terms of voltage, fan noise and cooling potential. If you already have a loop and could get a block for $100 and a reference 5700 or 5700XT for $300-$350 it would be the same as getting an AIB card in cost.


----------



## medi01 (Aug 13, 2019)

las said:


> ..and 2070 Super Founders/Stock is still


Nearly 100 bucks more expensive and yada yada, bu tit has RTX!

Yeah. Good that you've figured OC-ing on 2070s was way below 10-15% that your imagination has drawn, (assuming 3-4% qualifies as "well below 10-15%", right?)



W1zzard said:


> Forza is only available on the horrible Microsoft Store, which I refuse to use


I shouldn't have checked test results for Forza...
And when people think you are *biased *in green favour, just know that you give good reasons to think so. (and no, I'm not buying "I refuse to use Microsoft Store (on a bloody TEST MACHINE)")


----------



## Chrispy_ (Aug 13, 2019)

medi01 said:


> It can't beat or come close because... it is pricier?
> Are you from planet Earth, son?


Your post makes no sense. The previous four pages of this thread are discussing the potential price of this STRIX OC model.
I'm saying that no 5700XT can be worth over $500 because at that point it is outclassed by the 2070S, which starts at $500. What's hard to understand about that?

Anyway, that TPU chart you linked shows that the _slowest possible_ 2070S you can buy is still 6% _faster_ than this extra-bling Asus 5700XT STRIX.

TPU have reviewed_ six_ 2070S cards, the *WORST* of which can be made 8.4% faster on top of that. That's not me claiming that, just read the TPU 2070S reviews - they all show the overclocking results ranging from 8.4% to 14.2% faster than a stock, reference 2070S. I know overclocking is a crapshoot depending on the silicon lottery and all that, but taking the worst possible result means that *the cheapest 2070S is going to be 106% x 108.4% = 15% faster than the 5700XT STRIX OC*.

If you weren't fussed about the RGBLED, that means the $500 2070S is worth 15% more than the performance the 5700XT STRIX OC offers, putting the value of the 5700XT STRIX OC at $435 at best. If Asus are charging more than that once the price is announced, people will need to decide how much the Asus brand name and RGBLED bling are worth for themselves.


----------



## medi01 (Aug 13, 2019)

Chrispy_ said:


> I'm saying that no 5700XT can be worth over $500 because at that point it is outclassed by the 2070S, which starts at $500. What's hard to understand about that?


Oh, mea culpa, I actually am guilty of not reading 4 pages, and agree with your assessment. (qualitatively, as far as figures go you are off in green camps favour, but it doesn't matter)


----------



## Chrispy_ (Aug 13, 2019)

I wasn't intentionally trying to bias towards the green team, I just pulled the numbers from TPU's reviews.

Value or performance/dollar is always better the lower down the food chain you go, so if I compare against a $149 RX 570, everything looks bad. Obviously, the problem with that is that an RX 570 doesn't really cut it above 1080p and therefore not really as relevant to this discussion!

I'm also trying to avoid comparing to Vega, and the non-super cards these days as stocks are vanishing so they'll soon be irrelevant in a purchasing context.

What will really matter is the street price of these cards once initial availability and demand balance out.


----------



## bug (Aug 13, 2019)

Chrispy_ said:


> I wasn't intentionally trying to bias towards the green team, I just pulled the numbers from TPU's reviews.
> 
> Value or performance/dollar is always better the lower down the for chain you go, so if I compare against a $149 RX 570, everything looks bad. Obviously, the problem with that is that an RX 570 doesn't really cut it above 1080p and therefore not really as relevant to the discussion.
> 
> I'm also trying to avoid comparing to Vega, and the non-super cards these days as stocks are vanishing so they'll soon be irrelevant in a purchasing context.


You need to read more. He wasn't saying _you_ were biased towards the green team, he's saying _TPU_ is. It surfaced somewhere that TPU doesn't benchmark Forza (which presumably runs better on AMD) so now they have a new argument for their conspiracy theory.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Aug 13, 2019)

Ahhh, okay. I don't worry too much about specific titles swaying the numbers a few percent either way. If you play one specific game exclusively, then look at the best card for that one game. Otherwise the averages are just a snapshot of some current (ish) titles that cover a range of engines and APIs. For every game that runs better on Nvidia there will be a different game that runs better on AMD.

Personally, if one particular game sucks on one particular card, I have the luxury of just switching to the other team by moving to the other room in my house. Destiny 2 ran like crap on my old Vega, for instance - but the gtx 970 was smooth as butter...


----------



## nguyen (Aug 13, 2019)

hah I refused to play Forza because of the exact same reason as W1zzard. MS store needs to die.


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## vlad.coolish (Aug 14, 2019)

EU preorder price = 570 EUR ~ 630 USD
ASUS Radeon RX 5700 XT STRIX OC worst perf per dollar card


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## nguyen (Aug 14, 2019)

Chrispy_ said:


> Ahhh, okay. I don't worry too much about specific titles swaying the numbers a few percent either way. If you play one specific game exclusively, then look at the best card for that one game. Otherwise the averages are just a snapshot of some current (ish) titles that cover a range of engines and APIs. For every game that runs better on Nvidia there will be a different game that runs better on AMD.
> 
> Personally, if one particular game sucks on one particular card, I have the luxury of just switching to the other team by moving to the other room in my house. Destiny 2 ran like crap on my old Vega, for instance - but the gtx 970 was smooth as butter...



Jup generally if you play any indie game that happen to be good (Ace Combat 7, Frostpunk, Road to Eden, Original Sin 2, etc...) best to go with Nvidia, chances that those game are running DX11 and don't even need Nvidia optimized driver to run well. If you only play shitty loot box ridden AAA games that EA and Activision pump out every year (Battlefield, Star Wars, Call of duty, etc...) then Navi is a fine choice.

There are plenty of games that sit at the top of steam players count and are hardware killers but not often show up in reviews:
ARK: Survival Evolved, No Man's Sky, Arma 3, Rust, etc...guess which one favor Nvidia ?

Also with the current rise of Epic game store, there are more and more AAA titles running UE4 and Nvidia just owns those games. New UE4 games coming out are Borderlands 3, The Outer Worlds, FF VII Remake, S.T.A.L.K.E.R 2, Outriders, System Shock, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2, etc...


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## HenrySomeone (Aug 14, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> rx5700st strix is 5.2% faster than 5700xt +0,7% oc= 105.9% (1440p)
> 2070 super FE is 11,4% faster than 5700xt stock so  6,6% faster than 5700xt strix asus oc (1440p)
> 2070 Gaming X trio is 3% faster than 2070 fe + does 6% oc, so 15% faster than 5700xt strix oc. (1440p)
> 2070 trio is 10 degrees cooler and 8db quieter at stock or 15 degrees cooler and 4db quieter if 5700xt is on quiet bios.
> ...


Well as they say - you can't polish a turd...


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## cucker tarlson (Aug 14, 2019)

HenrySomeone said:


> Well as they say - you can't polish a turd...


good card,just not worth 500 quid.they're finding it hard to cool down a 250mm2 gpu that draws 240w,but no friggin wonder they do.250mm gpus are rarely that power hungry.It's just sad that the most expensive AIB version of navi runs hotter,noisier and has less oc headroom than reference nvidia cards.Nitro+ is the only hope at this point,but I bet it'll be good.


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## Shatun_Bear (Aug 14, 2019)

Reading the review, it seems W1zzard has been converted to AMD's Navi. 

It's quite glowing, in contradiction to lots of troll posts on here trying to diminish what looks like a good release


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## cucker tarlson (Aug 14, 2019)

Shatun_Bear said:


> Reading the review, it seems W1zzard has been converted to AMD's Navi.
> 
> It's quite glowing, in contradiction to lots of troll posts on here trying to diminish what looks like a good release


it's a good card,the release could've been A LOT better.


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## Shatun_Bear (Aug 14, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> it's a good card,the release could've been A LOT better.



I don't understand. 

Anyway, the Pulse is even better value at $409, at that price 2060 Supes and all its custom models are a no buy.


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## las (Aug 15, 2019)

medi01 said:


> Nearly 100 bucks more expensive and yada yada, bu tit has RTX!
> 
> Yeah. Good that you've figured OC-ing on 2070s was way below 10-15% that your imagination has drawn, (assuming 3-4% qualifies as "well below 10-15%", right?)
> 
> ...



Stop being mad because truth hurts, please.


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## medi01 (Aug 15, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> 2070 Gaming X trio is 3% faster than 2070 fe + does 6% oc


It does 3% overclock.



B-Real said:


> I recommend to check more test sites for the RX 5700 XT's performance. They are much closer to the 2070S compared to the original TPU review. Techspot f. e. only measured 2% difference between the ref RX 5700XT and ref 2070S.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, *someone needs to tell them to stop "accepting Windows Store", and replace Forza Horizon 4 with AC7.* While the former is much more popular, the latter does wonders to overall score, 2070s is 50% faster than 5700XT in that technological masterpiece.



ppn said:


> Yeah 2% or 9%, add 6% OC potential to that, 2070S still 10% faster.


2% difference stock vs stock, with 6% "OC potential" ends up "10% faster".
That's quite an advanced math, mind you.

Note that 2070s card that does gain 6%, out of the box is very mildly OCed, with only 3% advantage vs ref.  


In reality you have:
Ref vs Ref +2% 2070Super
AIB vs AIB, it depends, but with those referenced by green tucker, it is +5% for AMD, +3% for NV, a tie

OC brings you about 1% on AMD, 6% on NV in a single benchmark. Which ends up being +5% for 2070Super, OC vs OC, *for $100 more*


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## W1zzard (Aug 15, 2019)

Shatun_Bear said:


> Reading the review, it seems W1zzard has been converted to AMD's Navi.


Nope, I'm as impartial as possible. These AIB cards are simply really good, much better than expected, especially given the disaster that the reference boards were.


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## nguyen (Aug 15, 2019)

medi01 said:


> It does 3% overclock.
> Well, *someone needs to tell them to stop "accepting Windows Store", and replace Forza Horizon 4 with AC7.* While the former is much more popular, the latter does wonders to overall score, 2070s is 50% faster than 5700XT in that technological masterpiece.
> 2% difference stock vs stock, with 6% "OC potential" ends up "10% faster".
> That's quite an advanced math, mind you.
> ...



Well stop crying, Strange Brigade is technically an AMD tech demo and it's in the benchmark suit, also AC7 which is sold on Steam definitely got more sales than FH4 (AC7 got 5700 reviews on Steam vs FH4's 1900 reviews on MS store). 

Since you can't do basic math I will just explain to you why everyone came up with 10% for 2070 Super 




See that Palit 2070 Super got 161.6fps when OC and ref 2070 Super got 145.8fps, 161.6/145.8 = 10.8%
Doing the same for 5700 XT Red Devil we got 4.5% OC vs ref.
Ref vs Ref 2070 Super is 11% faster than 5700XT in 1440p, + 6.3% (10.8 - 4.5) additional OC headroom that means OC vs OC 2070 Super is 17% faster than 5700XT.

You can do the same maths at Guru3d overclocking section, they benched 4 games: Witcher 3, Strange Bridgade, Deus Ex, SoTR (2 AMD 2 Nvidia games), basically any 2070 Super model once OC will be 12% faster than 5700 XT OC avg across 4 games.


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## jabbadap (Aug 15, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> Nope, I'm as impartial as possible. These AIB cards are simply really good, much better than expected, especially given the disaster that the reference boards were.



Well that Evoke thing from MSI was a bit noise one. Not a bad per see, but worst of the AIB models you have reviewed. And indeed you noted it with different badge. But then again, these are higher end models from AIB:s, do you have some lower end designs on the queue?

(Well the sapphire pulse was really good for the low price premium over reference)


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## W1zzard (Aug 15, 2019)

jabbadap said:


> do you have some lower end designs on the queue?


nope, maybe as things stabilize in terms of releases. but as usual, board vendors don't want to send their lower-end models


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## las (Aug 15, 2019)

nguyen said:


> Well stop crying, Strange Brigade is technically an AMD tech demo and it's in the benchmark suit, also AC7 which is sold on Steam definitely got more sales than FH4 (AC7 got 5700 reviews on Steam vs FH4's 1900 reviews on MS store).
> 
> Since you can't do basic math I will just explain to you why everyone came up with 10% for 2070 Super
> 
> ...



He refuse to understand, because he already bought or plan to buy a 5700 or 5700 XT 
Everyone that understands basic math can see that 2070 Super is the better card, OC vs OC. 2070 Super is; Faster. Cooler. Quieter. Supports way more features too. NVEnc. Ray Tracing. etc.

Even 2060 Super could match 5700 XT with some OC and is the same price + comes bundled with 2 game keys you can sell.
It won't take long before AMD lowers prices for Navi even more than they already did. AMD always lowers prices over time.
This is also the reason why you can't really sell old AMD stuff, because it's worth peanuts after a few years.


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## medi01 (Aug 15, 2019)

nguyen said:


> Strange Brigade is technically an AMD tech demo


No.








nguyen said:


> AC7 which is sold on Steam definitely got more sales than FH4


Hooligan Vasja is also on Steam, should definitely get more sales than FH4!



nguyen said:


> that means OC vs OC 2070 Super is 17% faster than 5700XT.


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## bug (Aug 15, 2019)

las said:


> He refuse to understand, because he already bought or plan to buy a 5700 or 5700 XT
> Everyone that understands basic math can see that 2070 Super is the better card, OC vs OC. 2070 Super is; Faster. Cooler. Quieter. Supports way more features too. NVEnc. Ray Tracing. etc.
> 
> Even 2060 Super could match 5700 XT with some OC and is the same price + comes bundled with 2 game keys you can sell.
> ...


Oh, come on. He's firmly into AMD's camp and won't accept any criticism of their products, but "better card" because "faster. cooler. quieter", really?
It's a bit faster, all right, but for $100 more, that doesn't mean it's going to be everyone's pick.
And cooler and quieter go out the window when you realize they both have the same power draw in gaming. Which means there's no reason customs designs will be louder on one side.

I know medi is often ridiculous trying to praise everything AMD does, but let's no go the opposite way, ok?


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## las (Aug 15, 2019)

bug said:


> Oh, come on. He's firmly into AMD's camp and won't accept any criticism of their products, but "better card" because "faster. cooler. quieter", really?
> It's a bit faster, all right, but for $100 more, that doesn't mean it's going to be everyone's pick.
> And cooler and quieter go out the window when you realize they both have the same power draw in gaming. Which means there's no reason customs designs will be louder on one side.
> 
> I know medi is often ridiculous trying to praise everything AMD does, but let's no go the opposite way, ok?



I don't have any personal interest in either of these cards, it looks to me tho, that custom 2070 Super is still quieter and cooler than custom 5700 XT on average, based on all the TPU reviews.
There's many loud custom cards on the AMD side still. While there exists several sub 30dB load cards on the Nvidia side, plus performance is better.

2060 Super and 5700 XT will be fairly identical in performance when both are overclocked. Same price. Sell the gamekeys and 2060 Super is the cheaper option.

This is why I think Navi needs additional pricecuts.



nguyen said:


> Jup generally if you play any indie game that happen to be good (Ace Combat 7, Frostpunk, Road to Eden, Original Sin 2, etc...) best to go with Nvidia, chances that those game are running DX11 and don't even need Nvidia optimized driver to run well. If you only play shitty loot box ridden AAA games that EA and Activision pump out every year (Battlefield, Star Wars, Call of duty, etc...) then Navi is a fine choice.
> 
> There are plenty of games that sit at the top of steam players count and are hardware killers but not often show up in reviews:
> ARK: Survival Evolved, No Man's Sky, Arma 3, Rust, etc...guess which one favor Nvidia ?
> ...



Agree, Nvidia has the upper hand in many popular titles.
AMD is generally cheaper for a reason.

I think B450 + Ryzen 3600 + Custom 5700/5700XT is good value tho.


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## bug (Aug 15, 2019)

las said:


> I don't have any personal interest in either of these cards, it looks to me tho, that custom 2070 Super is still quieter and cooler than custom 5700 XT on average, based on all the TPU reviews.
> There's many loud custom cards on the AMD side still. While there exists several sub 30dB load cards on the Nvidia side, plus performance is better.
> 
> 2060 Super and 5700 XT will be fairly identical in performance when both are overclocked. Same price. Sell the gamekeys and 2060 Super is the cheaper option.
> ...


This is a never ending discussion. Cards from both makers are always slotted a little above or below what the other side offers. They're also almost always priced a little lower or higher to account for that. Factor in TDP and noise if you wish and make a buying purchase. Just don't try to determine that one card is inherently better than other when they're so closely matched. That only works in two cards are priced about the same, but offer performance like >20% apart.

And let's be honest here, you have the 1080Ti, these aren't much of an upgrade for you, I have the 1060 and I'm not spending $400 on a video card... We really don't care that much


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## las (Aug 15, 2019)

bug said:


> This is a never ending discussion. Cards from both makers are always slotted a little above or below what the other side offers. They're also almost always priced a little lower or higher to account for that. Factor in TDP and noise if you wish and make a buying purchase. Just don't try to determine that one card is inherently better than other when they're so closely matched. That only works in two cards are priced about the same, but offer performance like >20% apart.
> 
> And let's be honest here, you have the 1080Ti, these aren't much of an upgrade for you, I have the 1060 and I'm not spending $400 on a video card... We really don't care that much



I'm not touching anything before Ampere next year.
2000 series have been a joke, still enough to hold AMD off tho.
If Super cards had come on day one, it would have looked better for 2000 series.


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## bug (Aug 15, 2019)

las said:


> I'm not touching anything before Ampere next year.
> 2000 series have been a joke, still enough to hold AMD off tho.
> If Super cards had come on day one, it would have looked better for 2000 series.


I've posted several time before that if AMD wasn't such a no-show, Turing wouldn't have happened in the first place. Obviously the dies were too large for consumer prices, but without having to worry about AMD, Nvidia just said "what the heck". It's still intriguing to me, because I have been waiting for RTRT for ages, but I have no illusions, I'm in the minority here. And Ampere, as much as we can guess it will be better than Turing, we don't know what it will improve on. Or when it will land. But then again, your card will do for quite a while and I have stopped gaming anyway. So we're cool.


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## Rahnak (Aug 16, 2019)

At 559€ for the Strix and 519€ for the TUF versions of the 5700 XT, Asus just priced themselves right out of the market. The MSI Evoke 5700 XT in comparison is 455€. Madness.


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## windcaller (Aug 22, 2019)

nguyen said:


> Well stop crying, Strange Brigade is technically an AMD tech demo and it's in the benchmark suit, also AC7 which is sold on Steam definitely got more sales than FH4 (AC7 got 5700 reviews on Steam vs FH4's 1900 reviews on MS store).
> 
> Since you can't do basic math I will just explain to you why everyone came up with 10% for 2070 Super
> 
> ...



Strange brigade is not for amd.. is towards nvidia chipset family.
And sure, vice versa forza, but it is nvidia's driver optimizing problem.
Actually performance per dollar of 5700xt is better than 2070super, you can't deny it and plus bullshit DLSS and super hyped ray trash thing?
RIS has just pull up navi to another level as it can show every game which is dx12, dx9, vulkan based game to have more detailed visual like advantage you can get from upscaling.
Even without mentioning RIS, every reviewer said that 5700xt has better value than 2070super or same msrp 2060super(this is very poor value since released 5700xt)
And palit is way too expensive as it is priced a bit less than watercooled model. +180usd from msi 5700xt evoke.


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## nguyen (Aug 22, 2019)

wow Strange Brigade not an AMD tech demo ? you wish, it was basically in every AMD's tech press.








						AMD Brings Faster Performance and Advanced Features to Strange Brigade
					

Today, gamers around the world will face off against an ancient, forgotten evil power in the highly anticipated Strange Brigade. AMD and Rebellion have worked closely to ensure smooth, immersive gameplay on Radeon RX Graphics in Strange Brigade.FreeSync 2 HDR: Brings low-latency, high-brightness...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




And this is how many people play strange brigade





						Strange Brigade - Steam Charts
					

An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.




					steamcharts.com
				



At most 1300 concurrent players at launch lol. Talk about being AMD tech demo like Ashes of Singularity.

I just picked the worst 2070 Super out of the bunch, still a better overclocker than the best 5700XT out there.

In case you haven't been informed, Nvidia just kinda incorporated RIS and Low input latency mode into their new driver, called freestyle sharpening and ultra low latency. So yeah there is nothing AMD can do that Nvidia can't but not the other way around sadly.

5700XT has better value when it is priced at 400usd, not 450usd+ that AIB are charging


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## medi01 (Aug 22, 2019)

nguyen said:


> wow Strange Brigade not an AMD tech demo ?


Nope.







nguyen said:


> I just picked the worst 2070 Super out of the bunch, still a better overclocker


Which one was it, with 3% or 4% gpu oc? Oh, wait, those are the best oclockrs, lol.


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## nguyen (Aug 22, 2019)

medi01 said:


> Nope.
> 
> View attachment 129828
> 
> ...




I dont know why you keep posting Techspot result when what you are looking for is right on TPU reviews.






Also right on the first picture of the article that you mention









Can you read the white text ?

Radeon 7 Launch





Navi Launch





Well Nvidia kinda ruin AMD little fun by improving their performance in Strange brigade, I dont know why they bothered, probably because AMD review guidelines forcing reviewers to bench Strange Brigade and Nvidia don't want to look bad. For me it should have been called AotS 2, a little tech demo that is even more useless than 3Dmark.


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