# i7 7600U sudden FID drop (and c0 increase) when idling



## sssskmw (Sep 29, 2021)

Hello, many thanks to this great software that helps me better understand my laptop (thinkpad x1)'s long last issue:

When my laptop is idling for a couple of minutes, it will fall into a "faked frozen" state: I can still move the mouse but the UI is not interactive. This state will last for around 10 sec.

I checked TS and found when this happened, the FID suddenly dropped from 30+ to 4 and c0% increased from ~10 to ~50. This issue persists regardless of the power option.

Could you please shed some light on the possible fixes? Thank you.

(I played with Speed Shift a little bit but it seemed to have no effect.)


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## unclewebb (Sep 29, 2021)

```
DATE       TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  BAT_mW  TEMP    VID   POWER
2021-09-28  16:07:47   4.00   52.9  100.0       0   53   0.5487    3.2   TEMP
2021-09-28  16:07:48   4.00   52.8  100.0       0   54   0.5488    3.3   TEMP
2021-09-28  16:07:49   4.00   52.9  100.0       0   53   0.5488    3.3   TEMP
2021-09-28  16:07:50   4.00   52.9  100.0       0   53   0.5488    3.3   TEMP
2021-09-28  16:07:51   4.00   52.8  100.0       0   53   0.5488    3.1   TEMP
2021-09-28  16:07:52   4.00   52.8  100.0       0   53   0.5487    3.2   TEMP
2021-09-28  16:07:53   4.00   52.9  100.0       0   53   0.5487    3.2   TEMP
2021-09-28  16:07:54   4.00   52.8  100.0       0   53   0.5487    3.2   TEMP
2021-09-28  16:07:55   4.00   52.9  100.0       0   53   0.5488    3.1   TEMP
2021-09-28  16:07:56   4.00   52.8  100.0       0   53   0.5486    3.3   TEMP
2021-09-28  16:07:57   4.00   52.9  100.0       0   53   0.5488    3.0   TEMP
2021-09-28  16:07:58   4.00   52.9  100.0       0   53   0.5488    3.3   TEMP
2021-09-28  16:07:59   4.00   52.9  100.0       0   53   0.5486    3.3   TEMP
```

Your log file helps to show what is going on with your laptop. The MULTI column shows the CPU multiplier which is stuck at 4.00. This is as slow as your computer can possibly run. The immediate question is, why is this happening? If you go to the column on the far right it shows that the reason for throttling is TEMP which stands for temperature related throttling. The TEMP column shows what the CPU temperature is and it is only showing 53°C to 54°C. There is no logical or legitimate reason why the CPU is thermal throttling.



sssskmw said:


> thinkpad


Now this is starting to make sense. Lenovo has added a "feature" to some of their laptops. This feature dynamically changes and lowers the thermal throttling temperature to a ridiculously low level. Someone at Lenovo developed a cool and quiet mode. The way they accomplished this was by setting the throttling temperature uber low. This feature absolutely kills performance.

Your screenshots have caught Lenovo in the act. I was so disgusted after learning what Lenovo is doing that I decided to add some features to ThrottleStop to expose this trickery. The Intel specified thermal throttling temperature for the majority of Intel CPUs is 100°C. ThrottleStop reports this temperature on the main screen. Here is how my desktop CPU looks.





PROCHOT 100°C means that the CPU (processor hot) thermal throttling temperature is correctly set to the 100°C Intel spec.

For comparison, the thermal throttling temperature of your computer is currently set to 56°C. Your other screenshot shows PROCHOT 75°C. This means the thermal throttling temperature is being constantly varied and not in a good way. This temperature spec should never be changing. This is being set so low that the CPU goes into full on thermal throttling. A CPU locked to less than 400 MHz in 2021 is terrible.





Luckily ThrottleStop has a fix for this. Open the ThrottleStop Options window and on the right side find the PROCHOT Offset value. The Intel default for this setting is 0. This tells the CPU to start thermal throttling at 100°C. Most laptops use an offset value of approximately 5. This tells the CPU to start thermal throttling a little early at 95°C instead of the full 100°C. That is reasonable and acceptable. What your laptop is doing is not reasonable or acceptable.

For testing purposes, check the PROCHOT Offset option and set this to 5 for now. After that is done, check the Lock PROCHOT Offset option. This prevents Lenovo software from screwing around with this setting. Press OK and reopen the Options window. If this worked correctly, you should see a lock icon near this setting now. To unlock this setting, you will need to clear the check mark in the Lock box and you will need to either Sleep / resume your computer or you will need to reboot your computer. Usually a Sleep resume cycle is enough to reset your CPU.

Problem #1 should be solved. The next problem the log file shows is EDP throttling. ThrottleStop might have a fix for that too. Open the FIVR window and have a look at the IccMax value. IccMax is set to 32.00. That is too low and can cause throttling. Check the Unlock Adjustable Voltage option and adjust IccMax to the maximum value, 255.75. Do the same thing for both the CPU Core and the CPU Cache. Press OK when done.

Now open the TPL window. Check the MMIO Lock box.

Clear the check mark in the Disable Power Limit Control box. This allows ThrottleStop to monitor and maintain the MSR power limits.

If you do all of the above, I think your laptop will run 100% better. More like 800% to 900% faster but no one is ever going to believe that a world class manufacturer like Lenovo would throttle their CPUs to death like they are doing to your laptop. I have no idea how they get away with this without facing a class action lawsuit. A low end laptop should not run this bad let alone a manufacturer's top of the line offering.

Run another log file. Show me some more screenshots if you are not sure that you have correctly fixed everything that I have suggested.

Edit - When a CPU is working on a task, it is in the C0 state. A CPU running at 4000 MHz might need to spend 5% of its time in the C0 state working on various background tasks. When you throttle and slow the CPU down to 400 MHz, now the CPU will need to spend 10 times as much time in the C0 state to complete those same tasks. That is why the C0% reported by ThrottleStop has shot up so high. 5% in the C0 state at 4000 MHz will increase to 50% in the C0 state when the CPU is being held to 400 MHz. This is more confirmation of a severe throttling problem.


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## sssskmw (Sep 29, 2021)

Thank you for your professional and detailed instructions! They work like charm! I feel like my laptop runs even better than the new one!

I have learned a lot from your reply and I am so regret I didn't know TS earlier. 

I have no idea why Lenovo deployed such an aggressive and unreasonable throttling strategy on my laptop. But now my laptop should run smoothly for a couple of more years.

Thank you so much! I almost gave up and looked at buying an MBP.


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## unclewebb (Sep 29, 2021)

I have no idea what Lenovo is thinking. The recent throttling schemes that their engineering team have dreamed up are beyond stupid. Definitely not a great way to create repeat customers. If I was stuck with a Lenovo laptop that was throttling down to 400 MHz for no legitimate reason, I would never buy or recommend a Lenovo laptop to anyone.

Not sure why more people are not talking about these issues in the forums or how to go about fixing these throttling problems. Review sites rarely mention these problems. Some ThrottleStop features were specifically written to completely fix the problems that Lenovo are creating.

I still have my 8 year old Lenovo Y510P. It still works great, with the help of ThrottleStop of course. The throttling problems that Lenovo used back then are nothing compared to the throttling problems that the newer Lenovo laptops have.



sssskmw said:


> I feel like my laptop runs even better than the new one!


It does run better than a new one. Throttling problems are everywhere. At least your laptop's throttling problems can be solved. Some Dell laptops use throttling methods that cannot be solved. The average Joe consumer does not have a good chance of buying a laptop that can run at the advertised specs. Buyer beware.

Here is a guide to add ThrottleStop to your Windows startup sequence using the Task Scheduler.





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You can also use ThrottleStop to reduce your core and cache voltage by -50 mV. This can help reduce your CPU temperature and increase battery run time. Just go into the FIVR window and set the core and cache to a negative offset of -50 mV.


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## badi8 (Jan 11, 2022)

Hi unclewebb

I've read your postings very carfully as my Lenovo seems to have similar issues. Unlike the Lenovo from sssskmw, my laptop is falling into the "fake frozen" state (FID suddenly dops from 30+ to 4 and c0% increased to almost 100) only when the laptop is running on battery power.

I've follewed your instructions very carefully, without success. The issue persists with the initial PROCHOT Offset value of 25 as well as the changed value of 5. 

(I changed also the Long and Short Power PL1 resp. PL2 to 4095, but it seemed to have no effect.)

Could you please shed some light on the possible fixes? Thank you.


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## unclewebb (Jan 12, 2022)

@badi8
When the FID (CPU multiplier) drops down to 4.00, what does the main screen show?
BD PRO is red.





When this happens, push the Limits button and open up the Limit Reasons window.
Is BD PROCHOT glowing red?

How about the log file? When the MULTI column drops down to 4.00, is any reason for throttling being reported?





It looks like your laptop has a BD PROCHOT throttling problem.
Did you try clearing the BD PROCHOT box on the main screen of ThrottleStop?





In the Turbo Power Limits window I would check the Speed Shift box and I would also check the TDP Level box. The TDP Level is currently set to 1. When you check this box and press Apply, the TDP Level should change from TDP Level 1 to TDP Level 0. Most people get their best results when using TDP Level 0.


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