# New to OCing RAM



## LowBlow (Oct 20, 2022)

The system is stable with above timings on a GSkill 16-16-16-36 kit but looking for general ways to improve latency in aida64 as its currently sitting at 63.2ns and I believe I should be aiming for around 55ns.

CPU is 5800x3d on an aorus X570S Pro AX board.

Any advice appreciated.


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## 3x0 (Oct 20, 2022)

Restart in Safe Mode and retest. You probably have background programs interfering with he latency results


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## ir_cow (Oct 20, 2022)

The first read of the latency in aida64 is always high. Double click on the box to run just that test again and watch it go down.


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## freeagent (Oct 20, 2022)

You can open the benchmark test and tap on the latency test a few times to wake the cores up and then open the test and let er rip. Best to do it on a fresh boot with nothing else running. Give it a few minutes after it loads the desktop so windows is nice and settled for testing. Even though these things are fast AF, windows still doddles a bit on a fresh boot.

Some guys get hardcore and turn off their internet and Bluetooth connections. I just leave them on.. Some guys run in safe mode, which to me is kind of cheating.. but I don't make the rules


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## Taraquin (Oct 20, 2022)

Looks mostly very good! Couple of tips:
RTP 6
WTRS 4
WTRL 12
RDRDSCL 4
WRWRSCL 4
WRRD 3

I would consider trying 3733 or 3800, raise ram voltage to 1.45-1.48v.


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## LowBlow (Oct 21, 2022)

Thank you everyone. With Tara's additional timings, Bluetooth off and in a settled regular boot I got 60.4ns. I haven't tried 3733 or 3800 yet but it is running at 1.45V now as it started being weird on 1.4 (programs disappearing etc). Just played a couple hours of the new MW II campaign and the 1% lows are just butter, smoothest gaming experience I've ever had.

In Aida memory read at 3600mhz 14 14 14 28 is showing as 53517MB/s. Write is only 28790MB/s. Is that because the 5800x3d can't max it out?

Interestingly, the latency in SiSandra's overall memory score was down at 50ns. Would be interested to know why aida and SS are reporting such a large delta there.

Thanks again, this group is awesome.


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## 3x0 (Oct 21, 2022)

Single CCD Ryzen CPUs have their write bandwidth cut in half from its theoretical Read maximum, 28800MB/s is the max achievable bandwidth at 3600Mbit/s

Aida is a terrible and inconsistent memory benchmark, which explains the differences compared to SS.


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## freeagent (Oct 21, 2022)

Aida seems to be a little more consistent when using static clocks. I was just playing around with them earlier. X3D is definitely no fun with Aida. But it is pretty good at playing games


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## ir_cow (Oct 21, 2022)

3x0 said:


> Aida is a terrible and inconsistent memory benchmark, which explains the differences compared to SS.


Not true. You are part of the problem saying it is. It is a very sensitive program so the results vary depending on whats running in the background.

The only quirky thing is the first latency score is always higher.


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## Taraquin (Oct 21, 2022)

Roughly speaking you get 1-2ns lower latency pr 100MHz faster you run the ram so if you can run 3800 you'd get around 57ns.


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## Chomiq (Oct 21, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Roughly speaking you get 1-2ns lower latency pr 100MHz faster you run the ram so if you can run 3800 you'd get around 57ns.


My latency was 57.3 ns with dual rank Micron E-Die running at 3600 CL14 on a 5800x.


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## Taraquin (Oct 21, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> My latency was 57.3 ns with dual rank Micron E-Die running at 3600 CL14 on a 5800x.


5800X3D has higher layency than 5800X partly due to lower frequency so even with good B-die tuned it's hard getting below 55ns on a 3D.


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## Chomiq (Oct 21, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> 5800X3D has higher layency than 5800X partly due to lower frequency so even with good B-die tuned it's hard getting below 55ns on a 3D.


Thing is, I'm now running it at 3800 CL16 and it's still get almost the same latency.


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## LowBlow (Oct 21, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Roughly speaking you get 1-2ns lower latency pr 100MHz faster you run the ram so if you can run 3800 you'd get around 57ns.


Do you think I'd have to loosen the timings to 15-15-15-30 to get it stable at 3800? Would there be anything else I should to to aid stability like increase ProcODT to 60?



freeagent said:


> Aida seems to be a little more consistent when using static clocks. I was just playing around with them earlier. X3D is definitely no fun with Aida. But it is pretty good at playing games


I did find a video on how to overclock the 3D to get it to boost to 4700mhz but it's way deeper than I'm willing to go.


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## 3x0 (Oct 21, 2022)

ir_cow said:


> Not true. You are part of the problem saying it is. It is a very sensitive program so the results vary depending on whats running in the background.
> 
> The only quirky thing is the first latency score is always higher.


Apart from that quirk, there's no info on what type of memory workload it uses to measure latency or bandwidth (so there's no hope in finding how it relates to real world performance improvement). A much better program, at least on Intel systems, is Intel Memory Latency Checker and the GUI from here https://github.com/FarisR99/IMLCGui
It provides much more granular testing and info on RAM performance.


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## freeagent (Oct 21, 2022)

It’s not a regular Ryzen CPU, and FCLK clocking is different too. For example at 1900 fclk on my 5900X I get reads at roughly 59K, on my X3D 1933 FCLK is only 57K. This is while running dual rank b-die.


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## agent_x007 (Oct 21, 2022)

You could try lowering frequency, and checking how far it will go with GDM Disabled.


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## ShrimpBrime (Oct 21, 2022)

ir_cow said:


> Not true. You are part of the problem saying it is. It is a very sensitive program so the results vary depending on whats running in the background.
> 
> The only quirky thing is the first latency score is always higher.


I'm sorry to have to correct you, but no. 

It is not accurate.
And it's far from consistent.
Easily swayed and altered. 

People roulette to post the best looking latency.

Want accurate memory measurements, try PiFast.
That's if you want something sensitive to memory tweaking.
Stability, run PiMod 32m and Y-cruncher.
Warning, y-cruncher is a hot and heavy benchmark.

Good Luck!!


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## Taraquin (Oct 21, 2022)

LowBlow said:


> Do you think I'd have to loosen the timings to 15-15-15-30 to get it stable at 3800? Would there be anything else I should to to aid stability like increase ProcODT to 60?
> 
> 
> I did find a video on how to overclock the 3D to get it to boost to 4700mhz but it's way deeper than I'm willing to go.


If you try 15 flat you must turn off gear down mode and activate 2t. ProcODT is usually better around 32-43.


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## LowBlow (Oct 21, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> If you try 15 flat you must turn off gear down mode and activate 2t. ProcODT is usually better around 32-43.


Thanks. After seeing a guy with the same kit as me running similar timings I've just made it into windows and I'm benching OCCT with 3800mhz 14-14-14-28. The things I changed were:

ProcODT to 40
7/3/1
24/20/20/24
Trfc 280
Vsoc 1.2v
VDimm 1.5v

The dimm temp is stable at 44 Deg C on both dimms right now under full OCCT bench load.

Edit, big oof in OCCT.


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## ir_cow (Oct 21, 2022)

3x0 said:


> Apart from that quirk, there's no info on what type of memory workload it uses to measure latency or bandwidth (so there's no hope in finding how it relates to real world performance improvement). A much better program, at least on Intel systems, is Intel Memory Latency Checker and the GUI from here https://github.com/FarisR99/IMLCGui
> It provides much more granular testing and info on RAM performance.


Intel checker doesn't work on AMD  

Also these memory tests are just peak bandwidth and doesn't reflect real-world use. Otherwsie DDR5 would be crushing DDR4 in all games, yet FarCry 5 is consistently favors DDR4.

You notice how HWBOT doesn't have a read/write/latency category? That's because it doesn't have any sort of real-world comparison. A number of years ago One reviewer decided that the best way to show off memory is to show that has a highest bandwidth and ever since then PR marketing has been rolling with it. If I don't include it in the reviews people get mad lol


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## LowBlow (Oct 21, 2022)

Update: it passed OCCT with no errors by changing trfc2 to 208 and trfc4 to 128.

Can someone please let me know why SiSandra is reporting this kit as 3600 15-15-15-36 when it was sold as a 3600 16-16-16-36 kit by Gskill


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## Taraquin (Oct 21, 2022)

LowBlow said:


> Update: it passed OCCT with no errors by changing trfc2 to 208 and trfc4 to 128.
> 
> Can someone please let me know why SiSandra is reporting this kit as 3600 15-15-15-36 when it was sold as a 3600 16-16-16-36 kit by Gskill


RTP should be half WR so 6, not 10, lower SOC to 1.1v, 1.2v is very high, looks good except for that.


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## LowBlow (Oct 21, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> RTP should be half WR so 6, not 10, lower SOC to 1.1v, 1.2v is very high, looks good except for that.


Fixed thank you. Running OCCT now. Have you got any suggestions for how to get this OC stable with GDM disabled?


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## Taraquin (Oct 21, 2022)

LowBlow said:


> Fixed thank you. Running OCCT now. Have you got any suggestions for how to get this OC stable with GDM disabled?


1t gdm off can be challenging, try 2t gdm off first. If you try 1t then you must change DrvStr, probably you need something like 40 20 30 20, maybe higher or lower on number 1 and 3.


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## freeagent (Oct 21, 2022)

1T GDM off I can only get to like 3433 lol.. 

I doubt we are missing much, you can work the numbers..


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## ir_cow (Oct 21, 2022)

1T GDM off is highly unlikely with dual-rank. Its possible with enough IMC voltage, but the perf def is just for benchmarks.


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## freeagent (Oct 21, 2022)

It’s even harder with dual rank lol. I think 3200 was the best I could do. That’s about as useful as 3200 12-12-12. Looks cool but not that great.


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## LowBlow (Oct 21, 2022)

freeagent said:


> It’s even harder with dual rank lol. I think 3200 was the best I could do. That’s about as useful as 3200 12-12-12. Looks cool but not that great.


If I can get it not returning errors with GDM enabled at 3800 14-14-14-28 ProcODT 60 Vsoc 1.18 I'll probably just call it a day. Aida latency is down to 59ns (5800x3d).


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## freeagent (Oct 21, 2022)

LowBlow said:


> If I can get it not returning errors with GDM enabled at 3800 14-14-14-28 ProcODT 60 Vsoc 1.18 I'll probably just call it a day. Aida latency is down to 59ns (5800x3d).


Thats pretty decent. I think I was down to the mid 56ns level running flat 15s and 2T at 1933 1:1.


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## LowBlow (Oct 21, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Thats pretty decent. I think I was down to the mid 56ns level running flat 15s and 2T at 1933 1:1.


Ideally I'm working towards ProcODT down around 40 (given that this kit is dual rank) with as low a Vsoc as possible but so far I've only been able to get it error free with Vsoc 1.2. The hunt is fun though.


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## freeagent (Oct 21, 2022)

These are my current settings right now, I can run Linpack, but it gets pretty warm. Everything else is good though.

See what I mean about consistent? Normally if it is boosting, measurements are being taken at different frequencies as each test presents a different type of load to the CPU. So, it could measure high in one test but measure lower in another because it has read at a different clock as the CPU spools up and down. This effect can be dramatic depending on what is being run in the background on the user's computer. When running static all core clocks it becomes more linear, but this also depends on what is running in the background.


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## ir_cow (Oct 22, 2022)

You'll want to keep on eye on temps. Samsung B-Die will start to error out around 45c.


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## freeagent (Oct 22, 2022)

Oh yeah there is that too... I have many CFMs blowing through my case, part of the reason is to cool the ram.


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## kapone32 (Oct 22, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Oh yeah there is that too... I have many CFMs blowing through my case, part of the reason is to cool the ram.


I am thinking of getting some Noctua 3000 RPM fans to put in the front of my case. Do you think I will see a reduction in temps? The issue is the chipset on my X570S Ace Max can run as high as 92 c. They have recently come down to $35 CAD. The fans I currently have are the Phanteks SK140 but the case is so big (Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2) that I feel that they may be too slow to reach the MB.


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## 3x0 (Oct 22, 2022)

ir_cow said:


> You'll want to keep on eye on temps. Samsung B-Die will start to error out around 45c.


Depends on the kit and timings/frequency you're aiming for, in my case temps up to ~60°C were error free.


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## freeagent (Oct 22, 2022)

kapone32 said:


> am thinking of getting some Noctua 3000 RPM fans to put in the front of my case. Do you think I will see a reduction in temps?


Oh yeah, you should some kind of reduction..

They are not quiet fans.. they are some of the loudest I have ever owned.. but you can tame them for quiet times


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## ir_cow (Oct 22, 2022)

3x0 said:


> Depends on the kit and timings/frequency you're aiming for, in my case temps up to ~60°C were error free.


your mem temps say 52c. But yeah, its anywhere from 40-50c~  if you go low enough on the timings.


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## 3x0 (Oct 22, 2022)

Right, should have added it's a screenshot from the beginning of spring. During summer it got +8°C toastier  From my experience, tRC is affected by temps. Other people noted tRFC can also be affected.


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