# Downloading Movies ISP Warning



## Dbiggs9 (Jun 9, 2010)

ok so i got a warning from my ISP for downloading Movies/Games. My ? here is i believe i have not broken any laws. If i download i movie i do it for my Xbox360 (mp4/mkv) I do own the movies i download. just find it faster easier to download someone's ready to go copy Vs converting myself. I also do the same with games i own i like to download backup copy and use the crack if a CD is needed. I mostly do this to keep the Cd/DVD out of the hands of the kids if you got kids you know why. So should i keep downloading movies/games i own or should i stop?


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## DannibusX (Jun 9, 2010)

Stop downloading movies and games?  If you already own them, then you should just convert them, even if it is easier to D/L them.  You ISP sees your activity, not your already owned collection.


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## Dbiggs9 (Jun 9, 2010)

But am i breaking any laws?


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## DannibusX (Jun 9, 2010)

I'm not a lawyer, but _making_ a backup copy from your media is perfectly legal.  I don't believe downloading a copy, even if you own it is.


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## lemode (Jun 9, 2010)

Dbiggs9 said:


> But am i breaking any laws?



Legislature has passed stating that ISP s had to report people for DLing things they shouldn't...I would be wary if you’re getting warning s from your ISP.

Make your own copies…as ‘honorable’ as you think your intentions are…what you’re doing is illegal.


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## Millennium (Jun 9, 2010)

Are you in the UK Dbiggs9? I once got one of these letters/emails but I was switching ISPs anyway fortunately


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## Dbiggs9 (Jun 9, 2010)

So whats a good program to make .avi with?


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## Apocolypse007 (Jun 9, 2010)

who is your isp?


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## Dbiggs9 (Jun 9, 2010)

Charter Communications is my ISP in the US


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## PaulieG (Jun 9, 2010)

lemode said:


> Legislature has passed stating that ISP s had to report people for DLing things they shouldn't...I would be wary if you’re getting warning s from your ISP.
> 
> Make your own copies…as ‘honorable’ as you think your intentions are…what you’re doing is illegal.



Link to legislation?


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## lemode (Jun 9, 2010)

Paulieg said:


> Link to legislation?



it's in the UK for now...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10437176-93.html verizon just cuts off service here...


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## Deleted member 3 (Jun 9, 2010)

Dbiggs9 said:


> ok so i got a warning from my ISP for downloading Movies/Games. My ? here is i believe i have not broken any laws. If i download i movie i do it for my Xbox360 (mp4/mkv) I do own the movies i download. just find it faster easier to download someone's ready to go copy Vs converting myself. I also do the same with games i own i like to download backup copy and use the crack if a CD is needed. I mostly do this to keep the Cd/DVD out of the hands of the kids if you got kids you know why. So should i keep downloading movies/games i own or should i stop?



If you use torrents you also upload, which is still illegal. Use newsgroups, FTP or any other way that doesn't make you share yourself. That would work here anyway, not sure how US law is. Most likely a lot stricter and more retarded.


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## cadaveca (Jun 9, 2010)

Dbiggs9 said:


> So should i keep downloading movies/games i own or should i stop?



You should stop.

See, thing is, the actual download isn't the problem...however, most ways of downloading media in such a manner means that you are also DISTRIBUTING that media to others, which, is definately NOT legal, unless you live in Spain, or something.

Making your own back-ups if perfectly fine...giving them to someone else, however, is not.


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Jun 9, 2010)

DanTheBanjoman said:


> If you use torrents you also upload, which is still illegal. Use newsgroups, FTP or any other way that doesn't make you share yourself. That would work here anyway, not sure how US law is. Most likely a lot stricter and more retarded.



+1 on this post.  I used to use torrents, now I use newsgroups.  Much better, faster, etc.  Also, pretty rare you get caught using newsgroups.


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## kid41212003 (Jun 9, 2010)

Switch to AT&T.

I have been doing these "things" for years, and I haven't seen anything yet.

<_<

...... >_>


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Jun 9, 2010)

kid41212003 said:


> Switch to AT&T.
> 
> I have been *downloading CP* for years, and *they just don't care.*
> 
> ...



I fixed it for you.  

Also, I have AT&T as well.  They have never given me any trouble.


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## Dbiggs9 (Jun 9, 2010)

Sorry to be a noob here what is a newsgroup? can i get a link?


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Jun 9, 2010)

Dbiggs9 said:


> Sorry to be a noob here what is a newsgroup? can i get a link?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_newsgroup

I wrote a list of sites here, which is not allowed. Silly me.


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## lemode (Jun 9, 2010)

Dbiggs9 said:


> Sorry to be a noob here what is a newsgroup? can i get a link?



So now we're allowed to talk about roundabout ways of avoiding getting caught? I don't think so.


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Jun 9, 2010)

lemode said:


> So now we're allowed to talk about roundabout ways of avoiding getting caught? I don't think so.



Newsgroups are legal.  We were talking about ways of downloading something without uploading something back in return.


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## Deleted member 3 (Jun 9, 2010)

lemode said:


> So now we're allowed to talk about roundabout ways of avoiding getting caught? I don't think so.



No, technically we're not.


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## lemode (Jun 9, 2010)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> Newsgroups are legal.  We were talking about ways of downloading something without uploading something back in return.



roundabout ways of avoiding getting caught...regardless of how you try to word it that's what you're condoning.


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## Dbiggs9 (Jun 9, 2010)

lemode said:


> So now we're allowed to talk about roundabout ways of avoiding getting caught? I don't think so.



lol, not looking for a way out, just never heard of a newsgroup before. If it better then turrents for legal downloads i might wanna check it out.


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Jun 9, 2010)

Dbiggs9 said:


> lol, not looking for a way out, just never heard of a newsgroup before. If it better then turrents for legal downloads i might wanna check it out.



It is.  It will take advantage of you full connection when you are downloading say...  Linux or porn.  Sadly it costs a small fee, but it is entirely worth it.


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## Frick (Jun 9, 2010)

If you have a stable connection download speeds doesn't matter imo, as long as it's done. And I like to torrent things because I help spread that distro or awesome program or great album or whatever it is, as long as I'm allowed to do so.


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## wahdangun (Jun 9, 2010)

Dbiggs9 said:


> But am i breaking any laws?



i think not, because u can legally back up, and because downloading(as a method to back up) was not breaking DMCA (because u not cracking any DRM)

and please don't use torrent or other per-to-per (because u will be distributing and its really ILLEGAL)


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## LiveOrDie (Jun 9, 2010)

yer i would change provider my friend hits his off peak really hard every night never got told off for it lol.


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## EastCoasthandle (Jun 9, 2010)

Dbiggs9 said:


> But am i breaking any laws?



Who is your ISP?


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## Mr McC (Jun 9, 2010)

Dbiggs9 said:


> But am i breaking any laws?



That depends on where you are and who you ask. Thanks to the Copyright conglomerate, which is capable of exerting considerable pressure on governments, the trend seems to be that we increasingly own less and lease more, consumer rights be damned. If makling back-up copies requires circumventing DRM, you are probably breaking the law, although the gravity of the offence only really becomes relevant if you are doing so for financial gain via redistribution. In any event, this area is ill defined in curent legislation, but the future appears bleak for the consumer.


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## Kreij (Jun 9, 2010)

wahdangun said:


> i think not, because u can legally back up, and because downloading(as a method to back up) was not breaking DMCA (because u not cracking any DRM)



It was illegal for the person to put the copy up on the internet in the first place.
You are therefore downloading an illegal copy. That is illegal.

In the US you (usually) have the right (fair use laws) to make a back-up copy FROM the original media, and they must BOTH remain in your posession. If you give away the original you must destroy the backup(s).


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## Mr McC (Jun 9, 2010)

cadaveca said:


> You should stop.
> 
> See, thing is, the actual download isn't the problem...however, most ways of downloading media in such a manner means that you are also DISTRIBUTING that media to others, which, is definately NOT legal, *unless you live in Spain*, or something.
> 
> Making your own back-ups if perfectly fine...giving them to someone else, however, is not.



That is also illegal in Spain.


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## cadaveca (Jun 9, 2010)

Not according to today's news:



> Judges Liken P2P To The Ancient Practice of Lending Books
> 
> ~snip~
> 
> ...




http://torrentfreak.com/judges-liken-p2p-to-the-ancient-practice-of-lending-books-100608/


This was in a lawsuit against a site providing links to media, but not hosting the media themselves. I think intent, and this kinda staying within a certain group, means that the media is still encased within "private showings".


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## FordGT90Concept (Jun 9, 2010)

Spain is not USA.


Basically, that letter you received from the ISP was a cease and desist order, no?  If you don't stop, they are likely to take you to court.


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## cadaveca (Jun 9, 2010)

True enough, however, "mens rea"(legal term) kinda says that if you think you are not breaking any laws, then your actions are not criminal.

Like, say a school rents a movie, and shows it to the kids there...or you have a party, and invite 1000 of your friends to watch a movie you bought...


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## EastCoasthandle (Jun 9, 2010)

I wonder if he's involved in Hurt locker


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## Mr McC (Jun 9, 2010)

cadaveca said:


> _Snip _
> 
> This was in a lawsuit against a site providing links to media, but not hosting the media themselves. I think intent, and this kinda staying within a certain group, means that the media is still encased within "private showings".



This ruling is in direct response to recent proposed Copyright legislation that aims to circumvent the need for a judicial ruling to close a web site and place this power in the hands of other bodies, i.e. the Copyright conglomerate. As you say, the site itself was not making any profit by posting the links, which was the issue: I assumed that you were referring to profitable exhange when you stated that "distribution" was legal in Spain . Moreover, each and every hard disk or pen drive sold in Spain includes a surcharge, to offset any lost profit in the event that you use it to store P2P downloaded material without paying the publisher. Sorry for the short derail, the thread isn't about Spanish legislation.


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## dr emulator (madmax) (Jun 9, 2010)

Kreij said:


> It was illegal for the person to put the copy up on the internet in the first place.
> You are therefore downloading an illegal copy. That is illegal.
> 
> In the US you (usually) have the right (fair use laws) to make a back-up copy FROM the original media, and they must BOTH remain in your posession. If you give away the original you must destroy the backup(s).



i sort of agree 
because when i looked into this sort of matter before when i was downloading my n64 games that i own for use on emulators, nowhere did i ever read that it was legal to keep any backup, the media i'e cd/ electronic storage device or roms contents remains the property of the manufacturer/distributor not you, so all your really allowed legaly is the disc/media it comes on 
i often think the distribution of said material is overlooked for the sake of the net, i mean really if all their were was forums and ppv sites the net just wouldn't be worth it, and many would simply not bother
i think when the pron industry starts to push for fines and compensation because people have shared their movies,the net will start to shut down, i mean can you imagine no free naughty video sites


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## wahdangun (Jun 9, 2010)

Kreij said:


> It was illegal for the person to put the copy up on the internet in the first place.
> You are therefore downloading an illegal copy. That is illegal.
> 
> In the US you (usually) have the right (fair use laws) to make a back-up copy FROM the original media, and they must BOTH remain in your posession. If you give away the original you must destroy the backup(s).



not if you have server in canada, and btw its never stated in the law, that u can't use a downloaded copy? so i think its perfectly LEGAL to download a game if you already purchaed the said game(and because there is no different betwen the downloaded one and the DVD/CD that you buy).


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## Mr McC (Jun 9, 2010)

dr emulator (madmax) said:


> i think when the pron industry starts to push for fines and compensation because people have shared their movies,the net will start to shut down, i mean can you imagine no free naughty video sites



Good God, man! We need to stop all piracy and sharing immediately.


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## Kreij (Jun 9, 2010)

wahdangun said:


> not if you have server in canada, and btw its never stated in the law, that u can't use a downloaded copy? so *i think* its perfectly LEGAL to download a game if you already purchaed the said game(and because there is no different betwen the downloaded one and the DVD/CD that you buy).



Here's where you will potentially run into problems.


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## Mr McC (Jun 9, 2010)

wahdangun said:


> not if you have server in canada, and btw its never stated in the law, that u can't use a downloaded copy? so i think its perfectly LEGAL to download a game if you already purchaed the said game(and because there is no different betwen the downloaded one and the DVD/CD that you buy).



That's where the EULA  and DRM come into play: do you own the game, that is, own in the sense of having access to that game when and where you want, or are you leasing the use of one particular copy of said game, which may even be tied to a specific machine? If the latter is true, the companies would argue that you are using an additional copy that you have not paid for. Of course different people, courts and countries have different interpretations of what exactly is going on here.


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## TechnicalFreak (Jun 9, 2010)

Can't the ISP be mistaken? Like say, you play some game or host a server and it sends large amounts of data? I just don't understand how they can "see" by looking at how much data you transfer.

Some games (free) can be distributed via p2p programs (torrent?), which are large. How would that show up? Or is that something else? Perhaps it's who is seeding and what they are seeding?


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## Millennium (Jun 9, 2010)

I think they put hosts on the torrents and check for uploads from different IPs. Maybe ipfilter.dat is your friend


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## Kreij (Jun 9, 2010)

There is a youtube video made by a security consultant that shows how people are being tracked on torrent sites.

I will not post a link as it contains information that runs afoul of TPU rules.


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## Easy Rhino (Jun 9, 2010)

stop downloading illegal material /moderator

stop using torrents unless you can use SSL encryption with whatever tracker you go through. 

start using usenet with ssl. your isp will not know what you are downloading.


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## wahdangun (Jun 9, 2010)

dr emulator (madmax) said:


> i sort of agree
> because when i looked into this sort of matter before when i was downloading my n64 games that i own for use on emulators, nowhere did i ever read that it was legal to keep any backup, the media i'e cd/ electronic storage device or roms contents remains the property of the manufacturer/distributor not you, so all your really allowed legaly is the disc/media it comes on
> i often think the distribution of said material is overlooked for the sake of the net, i mean really if all their were was forums and ppv sites the net just wouldn't be worth it, and many would simply not bother
> i think when the pron industry starts to push for fines and compensation because people have shared their movies,the net will start to shut down, i mean can you imagine no free naughty video sites





Mr McC said:


> That's where the EULA  and DRM come into play: do you own the game, that is, own in the sense of having access to that game when and where you want, or are you leasing the use of one particular copy of said game, which may even be tied to a specific machine? If the latter is true, the companies would argue that you are using an additional copy that you have not paid for. Of course different people, courts and countries have different interpretations of what exactly is going on here.




i think there is two different perception in this matter 

first are that the game was licensed and u pay for the license to play the game : in this case i think its perfectly legal to download it, because u acquired the license when u purchased the game.

second was, the game as goods, its just like buying a car, if its broken then u must buy a new car, and its illegal to download it

and there was no single game that  tied to hardware or machine (if the do that i wont even buy it ).


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## Fourstaff (Jun 9, 2010)

Easy Rhino said:


> stop downloading illegal material /moderator
> 
> stop using torrents unless you can use SSL encryption with whatever tracker you go through.
> 
> start using usenet with ssl. your isp will not know what you are downloading.



Encrypted torrenting?


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## Easy Rhino (Jun 9, 2010)

Fourstaff said:


> Encrypted torrenting?



a few trackers support ssl. meaning the tracker encrypts all the information before it is sent and is decrypted once it reaches your pc. the ISP wont be able to see what you are downloading unless they want to spend the time trying to decrypt the packets which of course they wont. and if the feds ask them too it will open up a whole new set of legal issues.


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## 95Viper (Jun 9, 2010)

I have not seen the body of the notice.  So, are you (the OP) sure it was for (suspected) illegal activity or for a bandwidth cap for downloading and uploading?

You must be doing a lot of it to get noticed.  Also, Charter filed for bankruptcy and are hard up for cash, maybe they want to force you into a upgrade...

Their new policy (TOS) states this in Section 13 (appropriate number):

"13. NO EXCESSIVE USE OF BANDWIDTH"

"Excessive bandwidth is usage beyond a reasonable level for the service subscribed to. Residential service usage will not exceed 100GB of bandwidth per month for Customers subscribing to Services of 15 Mbps or less per month and 250GB of bandwidth per month for Customers subscribing to Service over 15 Mbps and up to 25 Mbps. Charter reserves the right to revise usage limits or to implement additional usage limits. In the event residential usage exceeds the above-described limits Customer will be notified and required to either limit Customer’s bandwidth consumption to permitted levels/limits or subscribe to a Service with a higher monthly bandwidth limit if a higher limit subscription is available. In the event Customer does not limit bandwidth consumption to permitted levels/limits after notice of the same, Charter may determine, in Charter’s sole discretion, that Customer is using an excessive amount of bandwidth over the Charter network infrastructure for Internet access or other functions using public network resources, during any period of time, Charter may thereafter: (a) adjust, suspend or terminate Customer’s account or Service at any time and without notice; or (b) require Customer to upgrade Customer’s service level and pay additional fees in accordance with Charter’s then-current, applicable rates for such Service; (c) cap Customer’s usage or limit aggregate bandwidth available to Customer; (d) implement prioritization of traffic; (e) implement protocol filtering; or (f) use any technology to be chosen by Charter at its sole discretion including, but not limited to, packet-reset and/or other packet management technology, to slow Service to Customer for purposes of conserving bandwidth. Charter may also notify Customer of excessive use and request Customer to employ corrective or self-limiting actions to comply with this provision."

All is just a possibility, but a possible possibility.


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## Mr McC (Jun 9, 2010)

wahdangun said:


> i think there is two different perception in this matter
> 
> first are that the game was licensed and u pay for the license to play the game : in this case i think its perfectly legal to download it, because u acquired the license when u purchased the game.
> 
> ...



I was referring to installation limits imposed via DRM.



95Viper said:


> All is just a possibility, but a possible possibility.



If they stand to make more money out of the OP and others, it might even be a _plausible_ possibility


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## Taz100420 (Jun 10, 2010)

Well you can easily shut the uploading off. You do that and you are not distributing it anywhere.


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## niko084 (Jun 10, 2010)

DannibusX said:


> I'm not a lawyer, but _making_ a backup copy from your media is perfectly legal.  I don't believe downloading a copy, even if you own it is.



Not true...

Backup copy sure not illegal but removing the copy protection IS illegal...

YES biggest BS law EVER.

Downloading them however is perfectly legal as long as YOU didn't mess with the copy protection.

For every law there is 2 ways to side step it. 

As for your ISP, call them and explain to them exactly what you are doing and ask them how that is against the law, because if they can't prove you are "breaking the law" and they shut you off, you have a valid law suit against them so says the FCC. I know because my company just filed suit against Qwest.


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## Dbiggs9 (Jun 10, 2010)

Dear Charter Internet Subscriber:

Charter Communications ("Charter") has been notified by a copyright owner, or its authorized agent, that your Internet account may have been involved in the exchange of unauthorized copies of copyrighted material (e.g., music, movies, or software).  We are enclosing a copy of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) notice that Charter received from the copyright holder which includes the specific allegation.

Under the DMCA, copyright owners have the right to notify Charter’s register agent if they believe that a Charter customer has infringed on their work(s).  When Charter receives a complaint notice from a copyright owner, Charter will notify the identifiable customer of the alleged infringement by providing them a copy of the submitted DMCA notice.  As required by law, Charter may determine that the customer is a repeat copyright infringer and reserves the right to suspend or terminate the accounts of repeat copyright infringers.

It is possible that this activity has occurred without your permission or knowledge by an unauthorized user, a minor who may not fully understand the copyright laws, or even as a result of a computer virus.  However, as the named subscriber on the account, you may be held responsible for any misuse of your account.  Please be aware that using Charter’s service to engage in any form of copyright infringement is expressly prohibited by Charter's Acceptable Use Policy and that repeat copyright infringement, or violations of any other Charter policy, may result in the suspension or termination of your service.  You may view Charter's rules and policies, including Charter’s Acceptable Use Policy, under the policies section of charter.com.

We ask that you take immediate action to stop the exchange of any infringing material. For additional information regarding copyright infringement and for a list of frequently asked questions, please visit charter.com/dmca. 

If you have questions about this letter, you may contact us at 1-866-229-7286.  Representatives will be available to take your call Monday through Friday 8am - 8pm, Saturday and Sunday 8am - 5pm (CST).


Sincerely,


This is my email


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## v12dock (Jun 10, 2010)

Just stop your illegal downloading as simple as that.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jun 10, 2010)

In other words, if you don't stop, you lose your ISP (I wouldn't be surprised if that includes a termination fee too).


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## roast (Jun 10, 2010)

I'm not so sure its illegal. 
As far as I was aware, the law was that if you own an origional copy, you have the right to download it.
I certainly dont blame the ISP for warning you though, they cant see your collection (and as a matter of fact, neither can we...... :shadedshu )
If it did go to a court of law however, I dont think there would be a valid case against you if you do indeed own the media already.

But, as a personal recommendation, its a lot easier to just stop being lazy and convert the media yourself, to prevent getting any more shit from your ISP.


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## entropy13 (Jun 10, 2010)

Dbiggs9 said:


> Dear Charter Internet Subscriber:
> 
> Charter Communications ("Charter") has been notified by a copyright owner, or its authorized agent, that your Internet account may have been involved in the exchange of unauthorized copies of copyrighted material (e.g., music, movies, or software).  We are enclosing a copy of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) notice that Charter received from the copyright holder which includes the specific allegation.
> 
> ...



Is that the whole thing? No snail mail from the MPAA/RIAA asking for $2,500 or else they'll sue you for $3627894568934278056298230467823956802394890436523478953 trillion billion google?


The best solution is to switch ISPs. And hope for the best that the DMCA gets repealed and ACTA never passes. Or North Korea bombs the whole world, same chances either way.


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## epicfail (Jun 10, 2010)

entropy13 said:


> Is that the whole thing? No snail mail from the MPAA/RIAA asking for $2,500 or else they'll sue you for $3627894568934278056298230467823956802394890436523478953 trillion billion google?



nah thats pretty much exactly what my email was, when i got told to stop downloading dexter.

but im with mts.


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## roast (Jun 10, 2010)

entropy13 said:


> Is that the whole thing? No snail mail from the MPAA/RIAA asking for $2,500 or else they'll sue you for $3627894568934278056298230467823956802394890436523478953 trillion billion *google*?



Dont you mean Googol?


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## entropy13 (Jun 10, 2010)

When it reaches the time where they're asking you to pay them money or else they'll proceed to court, don't pay, since there would be someone else that would be really stupid to do so, and thankfully it wasn't you. This is their new moneymaking scheme, which "worked wonders" for a couple of UK law firms (you thought their objective was to "protect copyright?" Of course not).


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## roast (Jun 10, 2010)

entropy13 said:


> When it reaches the time where they're asking you to pay them money or else they'll proceed to court, don't pay, since there would be someone else that would be really stupid to do so, and thankfully it wasn't you. This is their new moneymaking scheme, which "worked wonders" for a couple of UK law firms (you thought their objective was to "protect copyright?" Of course not).



Cant argue with this.


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## shevanel (Jun 10, 2010)

Were you tryign to download the UFC fight?

The only warning I ever got from my ISP within 10 years is for a UFC match I wanted to watch.

My monthly cap is 250gb, I try to use at least 245 of it if I can.


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## Kovoet (Jun 10, 2010)

If you get a warning concerning this in the UK and do it again your provider outs a hold on your account.


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## WarEagleAU (Jun 10, 2010)

I got this same letter, via snail mail, like a year or two ago. Still doing it, but I haven't used the NOID! I think that is what got it. You can try peer guardian 2 as well to help, encryption (if supported) or stop and go to newsgroups or mIRC transfers.


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## Easy Rhino (Jun 10, 2010)

WarEagleAU said:


> I got this same letter, via snail mail, like a year or two ago. Still doing it, but I haven't used the NOID! I think that is what got it. You can try peer guardian 2 as well to help, encryption (if supported) or stop and go to newsgroups or mIRC transfers.



irc transfers. mirc is a program  sorry pet peeve.


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## 95Viper (Jun 11, 2010)

You didn't download Hurt Locker, I hope?

IP-Addresses of First Hurt Locker Victims Revealed


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## Dbiggs9 (Jun 11, 2010)

95Viper said:


> You didn't download Hurt Locker, I hope?
> 
> IP-Addresses of First Hurt Locker Victims Revealed



lol, nope.

They hit me on Ocean's Eleven


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