# Probably the best value AM4 cooler right now



## Verbatim (Sep 4, 2020)

Bought a new cpu cooler for AM4 platform Gelid Phantom for only 34€ brand new. And seems to be the actual cooling performance is very close to much more expensive Noctua NH-D15 air cooler.

The question why i created this thread is how much more cooler or hoter are those AIO liquid coolers for example 240mm, 280mm or 360mm. Price varies from 3x to 5x times more expensive but what is actual cooling gain ? In terms of noise AIO probably is still louder right ?

Test system

Cooler - Gelid Phantom + Arctic P120 Grey (Single Fan)
CPU - Ryzen 7 3700X (Fully stock) default frequency and voltages like out of the box.
Ram - Crucial 3666MHz Cl16 @1.42V
MB - ASRock B550M Pro4
Case - MSI Mag Forge + 5 Arctic P12 Fans
Room Temp - somewhere in ~ 20 - 22°C range

For easy and fast comparison Cinebench R20 test.* Important for more correct comparison any of ryzen cpus should not be overclocked or undervolted!*

Stock Ryzen 7 3700X temp in Cinebench R20 reaches max of *60°C*.


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## EarthDog (Sep 4, 2020)

5 heatpipe dual fin stack...

As far as performance, look up reviews. Toms has good ones, here, anandd, guru3d... all good lists.


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## Verbatim (Sep 4, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> 5 heatpipe dual fin stack...
> 
> As far as performance, look up reviews. Toms has good ones, here, anandd, guru3d... all good lists.


It has 7 heat pipes  More than Noctua for less than half of price.


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## EarthDog (Sep 4, 2020)

Oops, yes. Id like to see it reviewed too. 

Better, how about more than a 10 second test? How does it do running aida64 cpu/fpu/cache? Prime 95 small fft for 30+ mins?


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## Verbatim (Sep 4, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Oops, yes. Id like to see it reviewed too.


Thought it has dual fin stack the size is noticeably smaller than noctuas NH-D15 massive cooler with two 140mm fans.


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## EarthDog (Sep 4, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Better, how about more than a 10 second test? How does it do running aida64 cpu/fpu/cache? Prime 95 small fft for 30+ mins


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## claes (Sep 4, 2020)

GELID Solutions Phantom Black CPU Air Cooler Review - EnosTech.com
					

The GELID Phantom Black has 44x aluminum fins stacked together and soldered with 7x copper heat pipes.




					www.enostech.com
				












						GELID Phantom 幻影 CPU 風冷散熱器 評測 - 悠二硬件Yujihw
					

最近GELID推出了一款風冷雙塔散熱器, 名為PHANTOM幻影, 擁有7條導熱管, 標稱TDP為200W, 更支援RYZEN的AM4平台, 是次散熱評測將會加入多5款風冷散熱器作比較, 且看GELID PHANTOM能否稱霸三百多港元的居中級別。




					yujihw.com
				












						Gelid Phantom Black review: dual-fan tower
					

Gelid introduceerde deze week haar nieuwe Phantom serie dual-fan towerkoeler die geschikt is voor (vrijwel) alle moderne processor met een TDP's tot mee...




					nl.hardware.info
				




not bad


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## Verbatim (Sep 5, 2020)

EarthDog said:


>


IntelBurnTest

Stress Level Custom "*8000MB*"
Times to run "*10*"
Test completed in *43 minutes*

Max temp *70.1°C*
Min idle temp *28°C*


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## Caring1 (Sep 5, 2020)

Actually the best value AM4 Cooler is the one you get in the box with the processor.


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## curiosity (Sep 5, 2020)

I've been recommending that cooler left and right after finding about it for about the same price, though I don't own one.

Crazy value indeed, puts Noctua (overhyped, and somewhat overpriced products, imho) to shame.


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## EarthDog (Sep 5, 2020)

Verbatim said:


> IntelBurnTest


I swear I asked for p95 small fft and aida64 cpu/fpu/cache for 30 mins. Not ibt and 6 minutes.


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## Verbatim (Sep 5, 2020)

curiosity said:


> I've been recommending that cooler left and right after finding about it for about the same price, though I don't own one.
> 
> Crazy value indeed, puts Noctua (overhyped, and somewhat overpriced products, imho) to shame.


I have feeling that those AIO coolers are even more overhyped than Noctua.


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## tunizizou (Sep 5, 2020)

this looks similar to the Scythe Fuma 2.
I guess just fans noise is slightly different


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## Verbatim (Sep 5, 2020)

tunizizou said:


> this looks similar to the Scythe Fuma 2.
> I guess just fans noise is slightly different


Fan is not original it's Arctic BioniX P120 Grey (Single Fan) very quiet fan for it's relatively high rpms. Probably becouse has only five blades on it.


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## Fry178 (Sep 5, 2020)

@Verbatim
value isnt the same for everyone, it will vary based on budget.

the main problem with ryzen is lots of heat on small space, so heat transfer from HS to cooler is more important,
and part of the reason why different coolers (size/ air vs water) wont show big differences on temps.

ANY (non crappy no name) AIO will have a big advantage: it will dump the cpu heat outside the case (when rad is setup as exhaust on top/rear),
lowering temps of everything else (pch/vrm/ram and more important air cooled gpus),
while most of the time also providing lower noise level at same temp.
best example:
on a rig for a friend i "replaced" the stock R5 cooler with an older H60 (the update one) with a single 120mm rad,
and not only doesnt it pass 75*C under full load, almost all other temps dropped by about 30*C.
this of course will make it easier on the ram, as well as get more fps from the gpu, as it can boost higher.
so spending 20-40$ more on a AIO is usually a good idea.

the Bionix is quieter as its based on the BN fan:
eLoop fan
it has 5 blades, as those fans are for "pressure", to use when you have intake/outlet covers "blocking" airflow of case fans
and for heatsinks/rads.
their airflow fans usually have 9-11 blades (same for Arctic and NB).

I do prefer Arctic fans in general, as they are close in performance to Noctua/NB, while costing 30-60% less,
while matching/exceeding Noctuas warranty (10y anyone?).

P series for heatsinks/radiators/restricted flow
F series for airflow that isnt restricted like case
bionix to add some flow/pressure without adding much more "noise"

Arctic fans


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## Verbatim (Sep 5, 2020)

Fry178 said:


> @Verbatim
> value isnt the same for everyone, it will vary based on budget.
> 
> the main problem with ryzen is lots of heat on small space, so heat transfer from HS to cooler is more important,
> ...


You have Eisbaer 280 and the same cpu as me please test it. 

Cinebench R20 or IBT

IntelBurnTest settings

Stress Level Custom "*8000MB*"
Times to run "*10*"


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## Fry178 (Sep 5, 2020)

hold on, didnt have the ac running yet, so ambient temp is higher.
what was/is your usual room temp when testing?


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## curiosity (Sep 5, 2020)

Verbatim said:


> I have feeling that those AIO coolers are even more overhyped than Noctua.


I think that is a bit more of a misconception. People tend to think water (systems) cools things down better than air, so without some basic research, they'll think AIOs, which tipically are also more expensive, are probably better.

Noctua products are mainly overhyped based on brand.


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## Verbatim (Sep 5, 2020)

Fry178 said:


> hold on, didnt have the ac running yet, so ambient temp is higher.
> what was/is your usual room temp when testing?


Room Temp - somewhere in ~ 20 - 22°C range


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## Fry178 (Sep 5, 2020)

@curiosity 
well water transfers better than air.
one reason you wont be alive for long in 0*C water, when the same temp for air will be less problematic.

but with ryzen its a bit less notable, as you need a top waterblock to transfer the heat better,
and why almost all aio get close to the temps of most (normal) custom loops.

i mean i got my 280 for about what you would need to spend on just the block, to make a real impact on (load) temps.

@Verbatim
cooling it now, maybe another 30-40min to get it there.
are you using cpu oc or PBO? (as in enabled, not just auto)?


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## Verbatim (Sep 5, 2020)

Ok let's see. 

Read the #1

CPU - Ryzen 7 3700X (Fully stock) default frequency and voltages like out of the box. 

Important for more correct comparison any of ryzen cpus should not be overclocked or undervolted!


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## Fry178 (Sep 5, 2020)

lol, sorry, missed that.
crap, have to turn off pbo then   

well, you still will have variations, even on same chip.
i had one x3600 that was running 1.42v under full load, the next one did same clocks with 1.3v
both on same board/ram on stock/auto without PBO (manually turned off).


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## Verbatim (Sep 5, 2020)

That's CPU lottery ryzen 3000 is temp sensitive lower temps  better the score on auto.

I think PBO on most motherboards by default  is not turned on right ?


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## Fry178 (Sep 5, 2020)

no, its on auto, meaning PBO is off, only PB running.
you have to switch to enabled and accept the XFR disclaimer..

4870 for MT.
i ran this with amd balanced plan, with ac holding temp at 20.5,
temps avg 55*C, peak was 60*C.

do have to state:
1. loop includes a factory oc 2080S with full block (incl vram/vrms etc)
2. im running arctic fans incl rad, not the stock be quiet (dont like the overall sound)
3. fans are F series (for airflow), not pressure optimized.
4. i throttle them down on idle/low load, max rpm set for 65*C (pump/rad fans) and 75*C for case fans.

so sure, temps arent much better, but i do have the gpu in it as well, fan type isnt perfect,
and all this while running the fans inaudible (my main reason for WC), and lower temps for everything else as well.
with ram/nvmes/ssds staying below 40*C, chipset/vrm below 60C, and even pch under 70* with silent profile.


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## Verbatim (Sep 5, 2020)

Thanks for test! 

I also use amd balanced plan.

CPU Fan Arctic BioniX P120 are set to

40°C = 30% PWM
60°C = 65% PWM
72°C = 100% PWM

Arctic P12 case fans change speed by VRM temp.

Thats very interesting that CPU Air Cooler for 34€ has exactly the same temp as 280mm AIO in Cinebench R20

How much do you pay for this AIO ? I paid 34€ for Gelid Phantom and 11€ for Arctic P120 BioniX. Sold original two fans for 5€. So it costed me in total 40€ for quiet and powerful cpu cooler.

Arctic P series is quieter than F series at the same fan speed. What was maximum fan speed RPM in Cinebench R20 ?


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## newtekie1 (Sep 5, 2020)

Verbatim said:


> IntelBurnTest
> 
> Stress Level Custom "*8000MB*"
> Times to run "*10*"
> ...



You realize those temperatures are meaningless to compare against anyone that doesn't the exact same motherboard as you, right?


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## Verbatim (Sep 5, 2020)

newtekie1 said:


> You realize those temperatures are meaningless to compare against anyone that doesn't the exact same motherboard as you, right?


That's not so important most important part is if cpu runs at stock/default settings without OC or Undervolting.


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## tabascosauz (Sep 5, 2020)

newtekie1 said:


> You realize those temperatures are meaningless to compare against anyone that doesn't the exact same motherboard as you, right?



Obviously so, but showing the average frequencies, CB R20 score, and SVI2 Vcore *during* the test tells us at least something about roughly how much power draw or heat a 3700X is putting out. A score of 4775-4825 is exactly a bone stock 3700X. With PBO disabled on newer AGESA, a 3700X will not be allowed to boost past 40-40.5x on Cinebench. There are many variances in silicon quality and out-of-the-box Vcore demands, but I've yet to meet a 3700X that has any voltage-freqency trouble sustaining 4.0GHz all core.

That said, @Verbatim it is a capable and affordable cooler, but Ryzen is a terrible platform for air cooler testing because they pretty much all perform the same due to how the chip regulates itself/utilizes extra thermal headroom and the thermal density. I'd be much more interested to see how it compares to other coolers on a 9700K/10700K, for example.

CPU-Z is a very short and light test, so 66C doesn't mean a whole lot. We are getting somewhere with the IBT results, however. I'll test my 3700X without PBO on my C14S. Your results seem generally in line with, if 1-2C hotter than my Dark Rock Pro 4.


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## newtekie1 (Sep 5, 2020)

Verbatim said:


> That's not so important most important part is if cpu runs at stock/default settings without OC or Undervolting.



If you're only goal is that the cooler is capable of running the processor at stock speeds, and temperature doesn't matter, than a Hyper 212 can do that on a 3700x...

What is the point of asking for temperature comparisons if those comparisons are meaningless?


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## Verbatim (Sep 5, 2020)

newtekie1 said:


> If you're only goal is that the cooler is capable of running the processor at stock speeds, and temperature doesn't matter, than a Hyper 212 can do that on a 3700x...
> 
> What is the point of asking for temperature comparisons if those comparisons are meaningless?


How do you will compare temperatures with different bios settings what a point of doing that ? False results ect.... Motherboards will be different without a doubt like it or not.

Besides that Ryzen 3000 has very weak OC potential in general. More noise for couple of peanuts and worse single core when OC.


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## newtekie1 (Sep 5, 2020)

Verbatim said:


> How do you will compare temperatures with different bios settings what a point of doing that ? False results ect.... Motherboards will be different without a doubt like it or not.




I'm not talking about different BIOS settings.  I'm talking about the fact that the temperatures you are trying to compare can only be compared to other people with the exact same motherboard because you are reporting temperatures from the *motherboard's* CPU temperature sensor. That sensor will be located differently on different models of motherboards, making the results it gives inaccurate.


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## Verbatim (Sep 5, 2020)

newtekie1 said:


> I'm not talking about different BIOS settings.  I'm talking about the fact that the temperatures you are trying to compare can only be compared to other people with the exact same motherboard because you are reporting temperatures from the *motherboard's* CPU temperature sensor. That sensor will be located differently on different models of motherboards, making the results it gives inaccurate.


That's margin of error better let's talk about AIO coolers that performs the same but costs 2.5X or 3X more.


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## tabascosauz (Sep 5, 2020)

Verbatim said:


> That's margin off error better let's talk about AIO coolers that performs the same but costs 2.5X or 3X more.



I think the point he's trying to make here is that you're looking at the wrong sensor, you're looking at what's reported by the board's SuperI/O. What you want are the temp sensors higher up the HWInfo list, under the CPU's own sensors - Tctl/Tdie and Tdie.


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## Verbatim (Sep 5, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> I think the point he's trying to make here is that you're looking at the wrong sensor, you're looking at what's reported by the board's SuperI/O. What you want are the temp sensors higher up the HWInfo list, under the CPU's own sensors - Tctl/Tdie and Tdie.


I tested with Core Temp the same temps.


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## tabascosauz (Sep 5, 2020)

Verbatim said:


> I tested with Core Temp the same temps.



That's not how Matisse's various sensors work... there's not just one temperature.

Also, you're going to need to run P95 for this like @EarthDog said, IBT is boosting up to 41.5x for a whopping total of 2 seconds each round and spending the other 99% of the time at 60C on 38x. That "70C" you're seeing exists only in a tiny fraction of the test. This isn't a stress test, lmao. 1.15V sustained Vcore is a cakewalk for Matisse, regardless of whether CPU load shows as 100%.


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## Verbatim (Sep 5, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> I think the point he's trying to make here is that you're looking at the wrong sensor, you're looking at what's reported by the board's SuperI/O. What you want are the temp sensors higher up the HWInfo list, under the CPU's own sensors - Tctl/Tdie and Tdie.


So he is wrong.







tabascosauz said:


> That's not how Matisse's various sensors work... there's not just one temperature.
> 
> Also, you're going to need to run P95 for this like @EarthDog said, IBT is boosting up to 41.5x for a whopping total of 2 seconds each round and spending the other 99% of the time at 60C on 38x. That "70C" you're seeing exists only in a tiny fraction of the test. This isn't a stress test, lmao. 1.15V sustained Vcore is a cakewalk for Matisse, regardless of whether CPU load shows as 100%.


That is not necessary CB R20 or IBT is good enough indicator to see performance difference in terms of cooling.


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## kiriakost (Sep 5, 2020)

While I do not consider Gelid Phantom as ultimate performer, the point  ( if there is one), this is the cooler to be able to keep up at the settings that the user will select as permanent Overclocking state.
Such a decision it can be made if the system it is tested at summer time.
In the end of the day,  if wisdom this dominates, then the user will fine tune system settings at the point that the CPU cooler he can handle the load.

Every temperature sensor this has specification of error,  this can be  at 1% or higher.
Comparison is possible even with different motherboards if all of them use identical sensor, or a known sensor regarding measuring error specification.
CPU core temperature sensors  they considered as more reliable for comparisons,  because they are identical.


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## EarthDog (Sep 5, 2020)

Verbatim said:


> CB R20 or IBT


cb20 takes what, 20 seconds to run? 

Just curious what p95 small fft temps are after 30 mins.


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## Fry178 (Sep 5, 2020)

@Verbatim
No problem.
Like i said, its mainly because of the small chip are so heat transfer is main restriction,
and only by adding a +100$ block, would i see another 3-5*C less.
(i was using die temp)

Then again, im cooling the gpu as well, and virtually all fans are opposite of what they should be (case are P series, rad is F series).
But my goal was absolute silence on low load (you can not hear that the pc is on, even when there are no other sounds present, e.g. sunday morning 3 am),
and even under load still silent.

Sorry, they are not.
arctic is setting noise as priority, other specs "follow" and why you see different rpms/airflow/pressure,
as its what is the max possible, with the type of fan design (P or F),
so i can have different version installed, but all are maxing out at the same noise level.
P/F as Silent         is 0.08 sone
P/F as Std/PWM is 0.3 sone
Bionix (PWM)       is 0.5/6 sone

the difference is P is for pressure fans (like heat sinks/rad,5 blades), and the F series for airflow (case, 9 blades),
and the bionix provide more flow, while only adding a bit more noise.


@EarthDog
havent stress tested the loop after adding the gpu, maybe this weekend..


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## freeagent (Sep 6, 2020)

Verbatim said:


> It has 7 heat pipes  More than Noctua for less than half of price.


There’s lots of coolers out there that are just as good as the D15, some even a little better. Everyone has put it on a pedestal for years except this guy. I had a D14 and thought my Ultra 120 Extreme was better lol. But it was probably the fans I was using. Speaking of which I had a blade break off of my center fan on the D14 ever since then they are junk to me.


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## Verbatim (Sep 6, 2020)

I'm not sure about intel but for AMD AM4 seems to be this cpu cooler has the best P/P ratio by far especially if comparing to AIO cooling where P/P ratio seems to be very poor for AM4.

Of course even better value is AMD stock cooler but it's definitely noticeably louder and hotter. And for quiet PC it will not work.


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## kiriakost (Sep 6, 2020)

Verbatim said:


> And for quiet PC it will not work.



I thought that this topic was in favor of ultimate CPU cooling no matter what. 
Air-cooled Quiet PC  this requiring another strategy, another planning and more research about products availability ( well performing PC case,  intake and outtake DC fan with speed control due it own wired thermal sensor). 

Any stock cooler will sound as louder if the PC case this is on top of your desk and next to your ears. 
Proper placement of PC case this is over the floor, so the case to benefit from the cooler air that is at the floor level. 
When PC case this is at the floor,  just two 120mm fan they can handle internal heat removal.
PC case at desk height, more than two DC fan or higher rpm will needed instead.

If you need a quality advice then start posting pictures of what you have (PC case internals).


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## Deleted member 193596 (Sep 6, 2020)

show us the proper three CPU measurements and not just the "CPU" Package.


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## EarthDog (Sep 6, 2020)

Fry178 said:


> @EarthDog
> havent stress tested the loop after adding the gpu, maybe this weekend..


ive asked this of verbatim. Not you.


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## Verbatim (Sep 6, 2020)

kiriakost said:


> I thought that this topic was in favor of ultimate CPU cooling no matter what.
> Air-cooled Quiet PC  this requiring another strategy, another planning and more research about products availability ( well performing PC case,  intake and outtake DC fan with speed control due it own wired thermal sensor).
> 
> Any stock cooler will sound as louder if the PC case this is on top of your desk and next to your ears.
> ...



Later i will get decent camera and show some photos i don't like to take pictures with smartphone.

My PC is not on floor or on desk! It's somewhere in between not too close to the desk 

There is no strategy at all just get mesh ATX case and five good quality fans and it's not that pricey either 



WarTherapy1195 said:


> show us the proper three CPU measurements and not just the "CPU" Package.


36#



EarthDog said:


> ive asked this of verbatim. Not you.


Show your results if you have ryzen ?


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## kiriakost (Sep 6, 2020)

Verbatim said:


> There is no strategy at all just get mesh ATX case and five good quality fans and it's not that pricey either



So simple is the way making bread, all other engagements they require use of brain cells.


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## EarthDog (Sep 6, 2020)

Verbatim said:


> Show your results if you have ryzen ?


Why? I'm just curious what it can do for extend periods of time with higher loads. This isnt a contest...


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## Verbatim (Sep 6, 2020)

kiriakost said:


> So simple is the way making bread, all other engagements they require use of brain cells.


Depends on people itself if there are no interest in PC world than people even with brain cells probably most likley will not make the best decision.


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## EarthDog (Sep 6, 2020)

Verbatim said:


> Depends on people itself if there are no interest in PC world than people even with brain cells probably will not make the best decision.


???? Was that for me? I don't understand what you're saying.

I'm just curious to see how it fares under longer more stressful situations.


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## Verbatim (Sep 6, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> ???? Was that for me? I don't understand what you're saying.
> 
> I'm just curious to see how it fares under longer more stressful situations.


EarthDog and what is the point of that test is not real world stress testing. There is no software or game that will load CPU so hard "ever".


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## EarthDog (Sep 6, 2020)

There is. Blender, for example, is more stressful than aida64.. close to prime 95. Computation using avx2/fma instructions. Not that you use them, but that isn't the point either. They exist. 

If you dont want to, you dont. But just seeing what it can really do versus some short burst lighter loads. I know you're not reviewing it, but heatsink tests are generally longer and use more stressful tests.


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## Verbatim (Sep 6, 2020)

There are not so many AIO tests people probably are at shame to show their results. If there was more AIO tests i would run your test.


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## Fry178 (Sep 6, 2020)

@EarthDog 
i know, just thought it would still be semi interesting info..  

@kiriakost
guess you havent build more than a few rigs.
take most a +100w cpus and a 2080ti or a gtx690 (little more common?!) and two of the best 120mm fans,
nor that the case sit on the floor will  be enough, and thats not even looking at ITX/SFF.

there are certain limits what/how you can cool with air, or we wouldn't have cars/truck and many other things cooled by water/other liquids,
as the heat transfer is multiple times better.


and my case IS next to my ear (sits on the right edge of desk 2ft away when i use it), and it is inaudible when running low load,
and you will not be able to get it silent on air only (or i would have it), unless you want to waste a lot of money on dampening material/install,
and no premium fan or fan controller will have a (big) impact on that (what for? any decent MB will have temp controlled options).
the only reason i switched to LC was noise, not temps, but you will never be able to match it on air without wasting same/more time and money,
so i will stick with water.


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## EarthDog (Sep 6, 2020)

Verbatim said:


> There are not so many AIO tests people probably are at shame to show their results. If there was more AIO tests i would run your test.


lololol. You're ridiculous. Thanks for showing us what your cooler can do...  

You want to see my aio run a 3*9*00X with all cores and threads and 4.3 Ghz? I don't understand what aios have to do with anything or anyone else's chip. I just want to see if that cooler can handle more than what you've put it up against. Lets be clear you posted a 20s second test and 6 minutes when this all started... then claimed the tests I suggested arent real world or at least close. Just say no thanks.


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## Verbatim (Sep 6, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> lololol. You're ridiculous. Thanks for showing us what your cooler can do...
> 
> You want to see my aio run a 3*9*00X with all cores and threads and 4.3 Ghz? I don't understand what aios have to do with anything or anyone else's chip. I just want to see if that cooler can handle more than what you've put it up against. Lets be clear you posted a 20s second test and 6 minutes when this all started... then claimed the tests I suggested arent real world or at least close. Just say no thanks.


No i want to se it only at stock speeds and voltages!


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## EarthDog (Sep 6, 2020)

Tell you what... ill show you mine if you show me yours. 

Let's see a 30+min run of p95 small ftt and aida cpu/fpu/cache. 

...though I still don't see the point of my 3900x and 3x120mm aio and what it has to do with your CPU and cooler.


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## freeagent (Sep 6, 2020)

Verbatim said:


> EarthDog and what is the point of that test is not real world stress testing. There is no software or game that will load CPU so hard "ever".


You should be able to run anything and everything on your pc, especially if it is overclocked. If you cant, then you are just pretending to have a stable overclock and are just fooling yourself


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## Verbatim (Sep 6, 2020)

That's different CPU test will be not correct. But fine if you want so....

*Important for more correct comparison any of ryzen cpus should not be overclocked or undervolted!* All CPU settings should be like out of the box.

If anything in HWinfo will look suspicious test will not count.


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## EarthDog (Sep 6, 2020)

I'm disappointed we can't see other (more telling) testing from you on this.

Good luck!


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## Valantar (Sep 6, 2020)

Verbatim said:


> No i want to se it only at stock speeds and voltages!


The problem is that with modern boost algorithms, "stock speeds and voltages" is meaningless, especially when comparing different silicon and different motherboards. Depending on the motherboard your CPU might be getting just what it needs or massively overblown voltages, and depending on the silicon of the CPU it might need 1.1 or 1.35V to reach the rated speeds. With variable boost thrown in, there's no knowing if two chips being compared are even running at the same clocks unless you're monitoring and logging clocks alongside temperatures and voltages. Then there's the error rate between thermal sensors on different boards, cooler mating, ambient temperatures, etc. Without controlling for ALL of this, your comparisons will essentially always have so much room for error the results are next to worthless.


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## Verbatim (Sep 6, 2020)

Prime 95 Small FFTs for "*60 minutes"*.





Ryzen 7 3700X max temp *61.9°C *that's actually lower than IntelBurnTest. Max VRM temp *38°C*.







EarthDog said:


> I'm disappointed we can't see other (more telling) testing from you on this.
> 
> Good luck!


What do you mean by that other more telling testing ?


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## EarthDog (Sep 6, 2020)

Longer tests with different applications.

I forgot yours is a 65W cpu..

Also, 'motherboard' is likely the chipset temps, not your vrm. Hwinfo reports it as 'vr loop' or 'mos' or 'vr mos'.


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## kiriakost (Sep 6, 2020)

Fry178 said:


> @kiriakost
> guess you havent build more than a few rigs.
> take most a +100w cpus and a 2080ti or a gtx690 (little more common?!) and two of the best 120mm fans,
> nor that the case sit on the floor will  be enough, and thats not even looking at ITX/SFF.
> ...



I have switched 14 motherboards and a lesser number of CPU's just for personal use within 25 years, and at my youth it was a time of me working at computer builder business.
I have also switched only between three PC cases all of them at the height of skyscraper,  if you get the right one PC case and find the balance of it regarding intake and outtake air exchange due DC fan,  then what ever you will install to it, this will be well cooled.

I can not afford having a dead MB or VGA due water leakage. 
Therefore I have settle down to air cooling, by the use of specific parts with a given delivery of performance, and in best balance regarding noise levels.
When ambient this will drop from 30C down to 20C in a few weeks,  all DC fans in my case they will slowdown their rpm by 50% automatically. 
No special Fan controllers,  no special software, this PC case it will adjust at the new environmental conditions all by it self, this was the plan and strategy from the begging.


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## Fry178 (Sep 7, 2020)

I see, but unless you had a water cooler leaking, not an argument (just hear say).
We have lots of things using fluids (car/machines) and run water/gas/oil in/into houses,
so why should it now be any different with cooling hw?

I never, nor anyone i build a rig for (incl working in shops) in the past 20y had any leaks on a proper build loop.
Leaks are only caused by putting it together wrong and/or wrong parts, and if you do any changes, guess what,
a 12V/1A power adapter with a fan port on it is easy to run a loop for a couple of hours to see if something is wrong.

So far, i've seen more cheap/broken psu's take out board/parts..


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## kiriakost (Sep 7, 2020)

Fry178 said:


> I see, but unless you had a water cooler leaking, not an argument (just hear say).
> We have lots of things using fluids (car/machines) and run water/gas/oil in/into houses,
> so why should it now be any different cooling hw?
> 
> ...



I give my positive vote at Maintenance Free systems.
Water cooling this translates that parts in use, they have a limit in thermal transfer.
Most users they use budget water cooling and when the needs of thermal load, this increases,  then they should replace everything.

Back in time, ZALMAN did a proper thinking or product design, but most people will find it as inconvenience, and I am one of them too. 


			https://images.bit-tech.net/content_images/2012/04/hardware-we-d-have-killed-for/reserator1_c_p-410-1280x1024.jpg


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## Verbatim (Sep 7, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> ill show you mine if you show me yours.
> 
> Let's see a 30+min run of p95 small ftt



Where's your test ? AIO Cooling 

Prime 95 Small FFTs for "*60 minutes"*.


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## EarthDog (Sep 7, 2020)

Verbatim said:


> Where's your test ? AIO Cooling


You still think this is a contest?? Lulz.


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## Verbatim (Sep 7, 2020)

No i do not think that it's just funny to see how these AIO coolers are lower than grass when it comes to actual test numbers.


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## EarthDog (Sep 7, 2020)

Verbatim said:


> No i do not think that it's just funny to see how these AIO coolers ar lower than grass when it comes to actual test numbers.


lol, yes you do. You're delusional. Weird.


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## Verbatim (Sep 7, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> lol, yes you do. You're delusional. Weird.


No Ryzen 7 3700X is not that hot as Ryzen 9 3900X and that's a fact! So test is posible but it will not show direct comparision. No you delusional and do not understand sarcasm. And as far seems to be for Ryzen 3000 AIO cooling isn't that great. I'm talking about temperatures and huge P/P difference. Some may say noctua NH-D15 isn't great value or P/P in this case AIO is even worse. Also AIO will not live as long as AIR. Pay a lot of bucks 2.5x to 4x more for basically nothing.


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## kayjay010101 (Sep 7, 2020)

Verbatim said:


> No Ryzen 7 3700X is not that hot as Ryzen 9 3900X an that's a fact! No you delusional and do not understand sarcasm.


did you just.. "no u"?


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## Fry178 (Sep 7, 2020)

@kiriakost
lol, just lol.
(btw, i had a resorator for about 2y and one of the best rad/res combos on the planet. i outperformed any air cooler while having ZERO noise (no fans).

almost all AIO like corsair (5y warranty against ANY defects, including replacing all damaged PC PARTS) and Arctic/Eisbaer as well,
are maintenance free.
I have installed multiple corsairs that are 3-5y old running perfectly fine.

I guess you didnt pay attention in physic class:
avg thermal transfer at 20*C of
air:  0.03
water 0.5
aluminum 230
copper 400
so even if the AIO has a cheap aluminum based block, transfer rate is less limited than running an air based copper cooler,
outside the fact that you completely ignore the specifics with Ryzen cpus (lots of heat in small areas),
which affect the performance of any cooler, as the heat transfer between cpu/block is the limitation,
and whoever has the best "block", will have better avg/max temps.
the difference will be the noise level, as i doubt your cooler is quiet after 1h of gaming.

same for value:
would you say a +1 Million Euro car is good value?
what if you have 500 million? still bad value? no



its one thing to say i dont want to cool my stuff with water and that your fine with the sound of a vacuum cleaner,
but stating that water performs worse than air and has bad value, you're completely ignore the facts.
rant mode: OFF

edited for typing errors.


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## Valantar (Sep 7, 2020)

kiriakost said:


> I give my positive vote at Maintenance Free systems.
> Water cooling this translates that parts in use, they have a limit in thermal transfer.
> Most users they use budget water cooling and when the needs of thermal load, this increases,  then they should replace everything.
> 
> ...


Most people vastly underestimate the cooling capacity of water cooling systems. I'm cooling my R5 1600X (95W) + Fury X (275W) in a low-airflow ITX case (NZXT H200) with slow fans (BQ SW3 1300rpm), with just a single 120mm (10-year-old no-name rad) and a 240mm rad (EK PE). Most calculators and advice on these forums seem to say that this is somehow woefully insufficient, yet my GPU barely exceeds 50c, with the CPU occasionally exceeding 60. And the system is really quiet too.


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## kiriakost (Sep 7, 2020)

Fry178 said:


> but stating that water performs worse than air and has bad value, you're completely ignore the facts.
> rant mode: OFF
> 
> edited for typing errors.



When you will stop making up stories in your head, then we may have a chance to exchange thoughts again.
Personally I would never buy a CPU and a graphic card, both simile to toasters , so I to  be able to shoot few monsters in my screen at 150 fps.


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## Fry178 (Sep 7, 2020)

So how is a 120mm water cooler bad value at 42 Euro (cheapest i could find on a quick search),
when you paid 34 for just a simple air cooler?
Guess thats made up too.

Not even talking about the fact i can do more with a pc (that has a cpu and gpu), than play games which lots of ppl do without screaming at it (which you made up to be a common thing).

Mersenne search/prime95

folding@home

run prime (small fft) for +1h and lets compare our temps then.


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## Verbatim (Sep 7, 2020)

It's bad value for ryzen 3000 cpu's (small hot die) Gelid Phantom will easy outperform it. If 280mm AIO performs the same as Gelid Phantom (Single quiet 120mm fan) then what you expect from cheap/loud 120mm AIO cooler ?


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## sneekypeet (Sep 7, 2020)

@Verbatim you win, your cooler is the awesomest ever.

Closing to stop the childish back and forth.


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