# Get your pirate Windows courtesy of Amazon!



## qubit (Nov 21, 2014)

I recently did a PC repair job for a client which required upgrading from Vista with a legit copy of Windows 7 Pro 64-bit as part of the fix.

I gave him the product link on Amazon and told him to buy it direct from them, not the marketplace, but of course he didn't listen to me.

He came over with it and I checked it out. Lots of spelling mistakes all over the place, odd looking packaging, poor quality printing and the DVD had a fake-looking hologram stuck in the centre.

Check out the photo below, taken from Amazon UK's website; the disc looked exactly like this one. I pointed out that it was pirate and likely harboured malware, but he was impatient and stupid, so said to install it anyway. Whatever, it was his money and his security.

I installed the OS and it went on fine, but then surprise surprise refused to activate, giving the blocked key message below.

I then got him to complain to Amazon, not the seller, about the counterfeit, fraudulent software where they promptly refunded him and emailed him a strongly apologetic template message about not tolerating this on their website.

Not trusting him not to fuck it up again, this time I gave him a link to get it from Scan. This time, the packaging and disc looked legit, so it installed and activated just fine. Yes, I formatted the hard disc first. 

What gets me, is how brazenly these marketplace sellers are flogging their pirate crapware and Amazon just looks the other way until someone complains. It's obviously because they get a big fat cut of the sales, making them equally complicit in the crime.

I'm also very surprised that Microsoft doesn't come down hard on Amazon - one of the biggest online retailers - for this, since the evidence of rampant piracy is abundant on their website. Are they not interested in stopping it? Anyone have any ideas?

Finally, I've never liked the product activation DRM, but this is one time that I'm glad it was there, since it prevented a dodgy and likely infected copy of Windows from being used.


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## Gmr_Chick (Nov 21, 2014)

Is that picture of the disc another fake one or  a legit copy of Windows? The blurb on the right side of the disc looks strange to me. It's almost touching the center of the disc. 

With this thread, you've just made me remember why I'm hesitant to buy anything on Amazon, especially PC parts.


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## qubit (Nov 21, 2014)

It's fake, as I explained above.

You shouldn't fear getting PC parts from Amazon. Just make sure that you get it directly from them and not a marketplace seller. It's pretty easy to tell, too. If you've any doubts, just post the link on TPU and ask the members for an opinion. Just look for the Amazon logo under seller information. Amazon has really good customer service too, so it's worth it.

Finally, watch the price, since it can vary significantly over a short time, often being overpriced for a while until settling down to a reasonable value.


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## Ahhzz (Nov 21, 2014)

Actually, last year, I purchased two "Kingston" SD cards, knowing Kingston has a lifetime warranty. Well, this year, I had to try to replace one, since it had died, and discovered that the part number on back was actually a Toshiba part number, with a 5 year warranty. Someone had stuck a kingston label on the toshiba part. I only paid like $6-7 for it, and it took a pain in the backside to get Amazon to refund my money, but I got it back. So, moral of the story, parts is questionable too....


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## FordGT90Concept (Nov 21, 2014)

qubit said:


> What gets me, is how brazenly these marketplace sellers are flogging their pirate crapware and Amazon just looks the other way until someone complains. It's obviously because they get a big fat cut of the sales, making them equally complicit in the crime.


Is the seller gone from the marketplace?


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## vega22 (Nov 21, 2014)

why would they care?

only person losing out is the buyer. 

amazon gets paid, seller gets paid and microsoft gets paid when the guy who gets ripped off still pays them for a real key.


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## erocker (Nov 21, 2014)

qubit said:


> It's fake, as I explained above.
> 
> You shouldn't fear getting PC parts from Amazon. Just make sure that you get it directly from them and not a marketplace seller. It's pretty easy to tell, too. If you've any doubts, just post the link on TPU and ask the members for an opinion. Just look for the Amazon logo under seller information. Amazon has really good customer service too, so it's worth it.
> 
> Finally, watch the price, since it can vary significantly over a short time, often being overpriced for a while until settling down to a reasonable value.


I wonder how they printed the holographic Windows icons on the center ring of the disc?


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## OneMoar (Nov 21, 2014)

#obligatory who pays for windows statement
the holo stickers are easy to get on ebay
seriously Microsoft doesn't give two shits about piracy its good for there market share why do you think they are so lenient with the phone activation
they do how ever take issue with people selling pirated copy's as legit

its stupid easy to make a 8.1 install disk that will activate and remain activated until the end of time and nobody would know the difference without explicitly checking
these guys fail -50 POINTS FROM HUFFLEPUFF


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## Blue-Knight (Nov 21, 2014)

Microsoft said:
			
		

> Do not lend or make illegal copies.


Amazing!

[JOKE]
They want you to be selfish too.
[/JOKE]

If my friend won't buy this, what difference would it make? NONE.

I just need to read 1 line of their EULA to not agree. And if I do not agree, I can't buy it (or recommend).
I just have to use it sometimes because I am "obliged" to do it some times, direct or indirectly.


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## Tallencor (Nov 21, 2014)

erocker said:


> I wonder how they printed the holographic Windows icons on the center ring of the disc?


Why do you ask?


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## Blue-Knight (Nov 21, 2014)

Tallencor said:


> Why do you ask?


It looks cool!


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## newtekie1 (Nov 21, 2014)

qubit said:


> hat gets me, is how brazenly these marketplace sellers are flogging their pirate crapware and Amazon just looks the other way until someone complains. It's obviously because they get a big fat cut of the sales, making them equally complicit in the crime.



Are you under the impression that Amazon physically looks at every product that is sold through the marketplace?  Amazon never sees the product, that is the point of the marketplace.  You place the order, the product ships directly from the marketplace seller to the customer.  Amazon doesn't know it is fake UNTIL someone complains.


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## qubit (Nov 21, 2014)

erocker said:


> I wonder how they printed the holographic Windows icons on the center ring of the disc?



It's a holo sticker and those are apparently easy to make afaik.



newtekie1 said:


> Are you under the impression that Amazon physically looks at every product that is sold through the marketplace?  Amazon never sees the product, that is the point of the marketplace.  You place the order, the product ships directly from the marketplace seller to the customer.  Amazon doesn't know it is fake UNTIL someone complains.



You can see obviously fake stuff there without even trying as I said in my OP, hence, yes, Amazon could do a lot more to get it off there.


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## newtekie1 (Nov 21, 2014)

qubit said:


> You can see obviously fake stuff there without even trying as I said in my OP, hence, yes, Amazon could do a lot more to get it off there.


No you can't, 90% of the stuff is nothing more than a text description, and they don't put "this is counterfeit" in the description.  The only hint might be the price, but even then, people are looking for good deals and some people actually do sell legit copies of OEM software for pretty cheap from time to time.  Furthermore, even if they do include a picture of the disc like in your OP, what the disc looks like doesn't matter one bit.  Hell, it could be a straight burnt disc with "Winders 7 Professionellz" written on it with sharpie, that doesn't make the license not legit.  The disc has no bearing on if the product is legit or not.

The COA, or in the case of retail products the orange sticker, with the product key is what is important, and those are never pictured.  And even then, it is so easy to just take a picture of a real COA, blur out the numbers and post that.  But there are plenty of valid sellers that ship valid COAs with burnt media simply because they didn't have the media.  They either took the COA off a dead computer or updated to Win8 and are selling the Win7 license that came with their PC.  Yes, this technically isn't legit either, but the key should work just fine if they aren't still using it. And technically speaking, buying/selling an OEM version of Windows by self isn't legit either, so at that point you'd be splitting hairs.


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## OneMoar (Nov 21, 2014)

newtekie1 said:


> No you can't, 90% of the stuff is nothing more than a text description, and they don't put "this is counterfeit" in the description.  The only hint might be the price, but even then, people are looking for good deals and some people actually do sell legit copies of OEM software for pretty cheap from time to time.  Furthermore, even if they do include a picture of the disc like in your OP, what the disc looks like doesn't matter one bit.  Hell, it could be a straight burnt disc with "Winders 7 Professionellz" written on it with sharpie, that doesn't make the license not legit.  The disc has no bearing on if the product is legit or not.
> 
> The COA, or in the case of retail products the orange sticker, with the product key is what is important, and those are never pictured.  And even then, it is so easy to just take a picture of a real COA, blur out the numbers and post that.  But there are plenty of valid sellers that ship valid COAs with burnt media simply because they didn't have the media.  They either took the COA off a dead computer or updated to Win8 and are selling the Win7 license that came with their PC.  Yes, this technically isn't legit either, but the key should work just fine if they aren't still using it. And technically speaking, buying/selling an OEM version of Windows by self isn't legit either, so at that point you'd be splitting hairs.


this the COA/Key is all that matters
and you can `sell` dvds with a windows 8.1.1 iso on it
just not a key/coa
you can install windows with the kms setup key and use it for 30 days before it will complain about activation
I routinely download windows iso's to use with customer machines its not a issue
as long as you have a key you can activate you are "legit" you can even script the key installation via the $oem folder so there is no need for any user intervention outside of final setup


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## qubit (Nov 21, 2014)

NT, when they're selling software as legit and it's on a fake disc that's design to fool people into thinking it's legit, it should raise a red flag for Amazon to investigate. Note that the other side of the disc looks silver like a pressed disc, lending further weight to the intention to fool people.

Yes, they could sell Windows on a burned disc with a valid licence if it was a retail version and explain this, but that's not how they're marketing them, so again, they're duping people.

And you yourself are saying that flogging an OEM licence off a dead PC isn't legit, which is true. So again, it's pirate software flogged as legit when it isn't, so this is fraud hence you should know this and not defend the practice. This isn't splitting hairs.

Finally, as you well know, Amazon, doesn't have to check every seller for dodgy software. It's enough to do random testing with sever punishments if counterfeits are found to discourage most of this activity.


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## EarthDog (Nov 21, 2014)

> so try not to be so overconfident in your own abilities if you can manage it.



'dat glass house... 'dose stones...




Anyhoo... I have to agree with you to a certain extent here Quby... 3rd parties are selling through amazon so one would hope they could vet the vendor or product. But seeing as how there is so many products, I imagine that is next to impossible.

As was mentioned above, you can sell a disk so 'looking at it' really doesn't tell you anything as I can just put windows on a dvd and sell it there, just not the key if I used it. If amazon checked, how would they know the key was legit? What if it wasn't the 3rd party vendor's fault the key is bad? I bought a boxed Windows from newegg once and its key was bad...

How would you have them confirm the key is active?


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## AsRock (Nov 21, 2014)

erocker said:


> I wonder how they printed the holographic Windows icons on the center ring of the disc?



My next door neighbor has a cd\dvd printer and it can print to the whole disk, the dam things cost 2-5k to buy.


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## OneMoar (Nov 21, 2014)

AsRock said:


> My next door neighbor has a cd\dvd printer and it can print to the whole disk, the dam things cost 2-5k to buy.


I can go to the local print shop and they will do it for ~300.00 bucks for a set of 50


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## FX-GMC (Nov 21, 2014)

EarthDog said:


> 'dat glass house... 'dose stones...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Seems you shortened your reply.


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## EarthDog (Nov 21, 2014)

Took something out ........ and added on topic discussion, yep.


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## FX-GMC (Nov 21, 2014)

EarthDog said:


> Took something out ("Why did you come back")... and added on topic discussion, yep.



Its just odd that the old response came up when i quoted your new post.  Was gonna make a stupid comment about him coming back because he is human and it is our right to do what we please......nevermind.


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## Sasqui (Nov 21, 2014)

erocker said:


> I wonder how they printed the holographic Windows icons on the center ring of the disc?



It's a refurbished hologram.


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## OneMoar (Nov 21, 2014)

there are a dozen print shops on teh interwebs that will make you a fake COA center sticker


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## newtekie1 (Nov 21, 2014)

qubit said:


> NT, when they're selling software as legit and it's on a fake disc that's design to fool people into thinking it's legit, it should raise a red flag for Amazon to investigate. Note that the other side of the disc looks silver like a pressed disc, lending further weight to the intention to fool people.



You either seem to not be reading what I'm saying or have comprehension issues.  The disc means nothing.  So the disc looks somewhat legit, some people take pride in what they sell, doesn't mean they are trying to screw people over.  They aren't selling the disc anyway, they're selling the key.  And Amazon would have no way to confirm the key is legit.



qubit said:


> Yes, they could sell Windows on a burned disc with a valid licence if it was a retail version and explain this, but that's not how they're marketing them, so again, they're duping people.



It doesn't need to be a retail version.  They could sell any version with a burnt disc.



qubit said:


> And you yourself are saying that flogging an OEM licence off a dead PC isn't legit, which is true. So again, it's pirate software flogged as legit when it isn't, so this is fraud hence you should know this and not defend the practice. This isn't splitting hairs.



It is splitting hairs because you buying(or instructing an end user to buy) an OEM copy is just as wrong.  People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.  You are saying the sellers shouldn't be doing something wrong, because it screws people over that are doing something wrong.

And selling a key from a dead PC is not pirated software.  It is a violation of the license, that is not piracy.  Microsoft has been paid for that copy of Windows, if it was pirated they would not have been paid at all for that copy.  The morals of reselling an OEM copy of Windows, or even re-using it yourself on more than one PC, is a different topic.



qubit said:


> Finally, as you well know, Amazon, doesn't have to check every seller for dodgy software. It's enough to do random testing with sever punishments if counterfeits are found to discourage most of this activity.



And how would they do these random checks?  Buy a copy, at Amazon's cost, and try to activate it?  Maybe the should set up stings, have undercover people buying things from random marketplace sellers, all at Amazon's cost, and kicking people off the marketplace every time they find a copy that isn't legit?

Yeah, that definitely makes a heck of a lot more sense than their current policy of punishing the seller when there is a complaint.  I mean, it would make Amazon loose a shit load of money, defeat the purpose of the marketplace entirely, but yeah that's a much better way to do it.


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## OneMoar (Nov 21, 2014)

newtekie1 said:


> You either seem to not be reading what I'm saying or have comprehension issues.  The disc means nothing.  So the disc looks somewhat legit, some people take pride in what they sell, doesn't mean they are trying to screw people over.  They aren't selling the disc anyway, they're selling the key.  And Amazon would have no way to confirm the key is legit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


@newtekie1 nails it again
I am done with this thread is doing more spinning and ending up in the ditch then the people in buffalo ny are


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## Ahhzz (Nov 21, 2014)

I was in a ditch once.... blew a tire on a culvert pipe..... had to limp into the parking lot to change the tire.... annoying as hell, superbowl sunday... couldn't even drink the six pack since I still had to drive the rest of the way home....


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 21, 2014)

hey Q, shit happens, however not Amazon.com or even newegg can fully catch crooks 100%, remember that Debacle of Intel PIBs, nothing was in them but a piece of foam?


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## EarthDog (Nov 21, 2014)

I do!! OCF broke that story.


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## qubit (Nov 23, 2014)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Is the seller gone from the marketplace?



They're still there, but they're no longer the seller of that product. At least that was the case when I checked a while ago.



eidairaman1 said:


> hey Q, shit happens, however not Amazon.com or even newegg can fully catch crooks 100%, remember that Debacle of Intel PIBs, nothing was in them but a piece of foam?


Not eliminate it, I'm just saying they could do a lot more to reduce it.

It's obvious from even a casual observation that there's rampant piracy there, let alone the deeper inspections that Amazon and Microsoft could do. As I said in a previous post, they don't have to go for everyone, just the biggest offenders, which will do a lot to curb it.

It's nonsense that a company with deep pockets like Amazon and in a likely partnership with Microsoft, couldn't do anything at all to curb it.

That's what NT is trying to say here and throwing out a lot of weak strawman arguments to try and justify his assertion. I see that he even insultingly accuses me of having "comprehension issues" back there - a sure sign of a losing argument. Also, it's weird how the only time I ever hear from him is when he chooses to nitpick on something obvious, makes an obviously wrong assertion and then runs and runs and runs with it with no end in sight, but that's our NT. He does it to other people too.  I see he's still trying to justify why flogging a licence off a dead PC isn't piracy with yet more wrong arguments. You're wrong on that one, just admit it and quit looking even more foolish. Never mind, at least he's got his chum onemoar to side with him and feel better about it all, lol.  I'm so glad onemoar's off my thread. Stay away, thanks.


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 23, 2014)

Ive seen faux paw screens for the Galaxy S2 T989 on there(Read several reviews). The one i purchased i got lucky because it's original (ffs i paid 80 bux for it). Whats good Is Amazon did refund yalls purchase and investigated yalls claim, if they hadn't then the amazon.com i knew 10 years ago ain't the same



qubit said:


> They're still there, but they're no longer the seller of that product. At least that was the case when I checked a while ago.
> 
> It's obvious from even a casual observation that there's rampant piracy there, let alone the deeper inspections that Amazon and Microsoft could do. As I said in a previous post, they don't have to go for everyone, just the biggest offenders, which will do a lot to curb it.
> 
> ...


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## newtekie1 (Nov 23, 2014)

qubit said:


> Not eliminate it, I'm just saying they could do a lot more to reduce it.



Not really.  Your suggestions won't not work in real world practice.  They would either cost an incredible amount of money, or defeat the purpose of the Marketplace in the first place.



qubit said:


> It's obvious from even a casual observation that there's rampant piracy there, let alone the deeper inspections that Amazon and Microsoft could do. As I said in a previous post, they don't have to go for everyone, just the biggest offenders, which will do a lot to curb it.



You say that like they just magically know about all piracy, and should some how punish the ones that do it the most.  Again, Amazon has no idea piracy has occurred until it is reported by the customer.



qubit said:


> It's nonsense that a company with deep pockets like Amazon and in a likely partnership with Microsoft, couldn't do anything at all to curb it.



Without a way to validate keys, which I guarantee you Amazon doesn't have, there is literally no way to do anything.  And again, it would require Amazon to be sent every key first and for them to validate the key before it is sent to the customer, again defeating the point of the Marketplace.  The Marketplace is supposed to be an efficient way for sellers to sell items to consumers through Amazon without Amazon needing to do any work.  As far as Amazon is concerned, the point of the Marketplace it to make money for doing nothing.  If you ask them to validate every product that is a lot of money they are spending to pay people to do that...again that would be if they even had a way to do it.

Sure, they could pay people to review every Marketplace product, but again that is a lot of money and even if they did find a product they suspected was pirated they would have no way to verify if the key is legit or not.



qubit said:


> That's what NT is trying to say here and throwing out a lot of weak strawman arguments to try and justify his assertion. I see that he even insultingly accuses me of having "comprehension issues" back there - a sure sign of a losing argument.



You don't have any clue what a straw man argument is do you?  And I'm not insulting you, I'm stating you are either not reading what I'm saying or not comprehending it because I explained twice before that that the disc means nothing and you kept going on about how the disc was obviously fake and Amazon can use the discs to some how spot pirated copies.



qubit said:


> Also, it's weird how the only time I ever hear from him is when he chooses to nitpick on something obvious, makes an obviously wrong assertion and then runs and runs and runs with it with no end in sight, but that's our NT. He does it to other people too.



Funny, I was just about to say the same thing about you.  Heck, basically every thread you start is some rant where you are making BS assertions about how some company is evil and out to get you...



qubit said:


> I see he's still trying to justify why flogging a licence off a dead PC isn't piracy with yet more wrong arguments. You're wrong on that one, just admit it and quit looking even more foolish.



Look up what piracy is. I'll give you a head start, violating the license agreement is not piracy.  Oh, and as I said, buying an OEM copy as an end user violates the license as well.  So you are just as in the wrong here as someone selling a key from a dead PC.  These aren't wrong arguments, these are cold hard facts.


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## FordGT90Concept (Nov 23, 2014)

qubit said:


> They're still there, but they're no longer the seller of that product. At least that was the case when I checked a while ago.


Then what more do you expect from Amazon?  Someone got scammed, Amazon refunded and removed the product from the marketplace.  No reason to make a hateful thread directed at Amazon when Amazon covered your ass and made sure no one else got burned.


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## Tonduluboy (Nov 23, 2014)

I think before anyone post a thread like this, they should complaint to Amazon 1st.
2nd. WAIT give them  Amazon ample time to fix the problem.
3rd. If after a period of time Amazon did nothing, then you can open a topic about it.
4th. If Amazon did fix the problem, everyone is happy instead of arguing each other and before u even finish arguing your opinion, the Amazon already fix the problem.


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 23, 2014)

I think q is sayin buyer beware is all


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## FordGT90Concept (Nov 23, 2014)

I wonder how much this person paid for Windows.  Was it substantially less than $100?  That's the first red flag.


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## Arctucas (Nov 23, 2014)

I closed my Amazon account earlier this year because of one of their vendors pulling the old 'bait-and-switch'.

Although they refunded my money, I feel that I cannot trust them anymore.

To my mind, they have become no better than EBay.

Caveat emptor.


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## newtekie1 (Nov 23, 2014)

Arctucas said:


> I closed my Amazon account earlier this year because of one of their vendors pulling the old 'bait-and-switch'.
> 
> Although they refunded my money, I feel that I cannot trust them anymore.
> 
> ...



That is kind of extreme considering the much simpler solution would to just not buy things from Marketplace sellers and make sure you are buying direct from Amazon.  Newegg is beginning to have the same problem now that they've implemented an Marketplace, I assume you'll be closing your account there as well?


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## Schmuckley (Nov 23, 2014)

eidairaman1 said:


> hey Q, shit happens, however not Amazon.com or even newegg can fully catch crooks 100%, remember that Debacle of Intel PIBs, nothing was in them but a piece of foam?



I remember that.. i7 920s I believe.
owait..no..those were what looked like 920 IHSs with something else underneath.

My Google-Fu is strong:

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/03/05/newegg_selling_fake_intel_cpus#.VHJFrmTlrmg


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## Arctucas (Nov 23, 2014)

newtekie1 said:


> That is kind of extreme considering the much simpler solution would to just not buy things from Marketplace sellers and make sure you are buying direct from Amazon.  Newegg is beginning to have the same problem now that they've implemented an Marketplace, I assume you'll be closing your account there as well?



No, as I always checkout as a Guest on Newegg, therefore I have no account to close. 

However, Amazon does not offer that option, now do they?

Regardless, I hold Amazon ultimately responsible for the vendors they allow, believing that, in fact, they endorse said vendors (for a kickback, of course).

Anyway, seeing as it is _*my*_ money, who should decide where I choose to spend it? 

I am a staunch believer in the old adage: 'Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me'. I have no intention of allowing myself to be to be fooled again.

Besides, Amazon is is not the only online retailer. Even so, like any online retailer, I would only use them for things I could not find locally.

I had a bad experience, I moved on. It is not my loss.


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## FX-GMC (Nov 24, 2014)

Arctucas said:


> ...
> 
> I had a bad experience, I moved on. *It is not my loss.*



It could be a monetary loss depending on the situation.  I shop Amazon to save $$$.


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## rtwjunkie (Nov 24, 2014)

EarthDog said:


> 'dat glass house... 'dose stones...
> 
> I thought you left the site Qubit?
> 
> ...


 
@qubit has been back for a couple months, just maintaining a low profile, posting occasionally here or there.

@newtekie1 about the Marketplace-  I pretty much follow this advice and don't buy Marketplace on Amazon, except for one type of item: certain Steam games which do not come Retail box in the U.S. at all, are available from the UK, such as Hitman: Absolution, Tomb Raider, Resident Evil: Revelations, RYSE, Murdered: Soul Suspect, Sleeping Dogs Definitive Edition, etc.  I've had good luck with all these items.  The only caveat is it takes up to 30 days shipping to arrive.


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## FX-GMC (Nov 24, 2014)

rtwjunkie said:


> @qubit has been back for a couple months, just maintaining a low profile, posting occasionally here or there.



Creepy.  I hope I don't have any stalkers.


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## EarthDog (Nov 24, 2014)

Interesting. I guess when I take my ball and go home, and say I wont come back, I don't. 



> Creepy. I hope I don't have any stalkers.


Don't go off and rage quit in public and you wouldn't be up for such inquiries... LOL!

I think, thankfully, he has me on ignore (dat truth!)... anyhoo..... now that random curiosity is solved...


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 24, 2014)

Didn't even know he was gone. Should have suspected as much as there hasn't been a lot "qq" threads.


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## qubit (Nov 24, 2014)

EarthDog said:


> Interesting. I guess when I take my ball and go home, and say I wont come back, I don't.
> 
> Don't go off and rage quit in public and you wouldn't be up for such inquiries... LOL!
> 
> I think, thankfully, he has me on ignore (dat truth!)... anyhoo..... now that random curiosity is solved...


I don't have anyone on ignore. I choose to ignore spiteful trolls like you who do nothing but hate on people and mess up their threads. Yeah, I called you a troll. Now that's the truth.


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## Tatty_One (Nov 24, 2014)

The "_Qubit you have come back_" bit whilst relevant for a time is getting a little repetitive and tiresome now, one or two of you have made your point, rubbing noses in it whilst clearly pleasurable for some is unnecessary, everyone has equal right to be here, move on please...... thread closed.


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