# Copper pipes with water cooling?



## Thrackan (Mar 16, 2009)

So, I've been spinning this crazy idea in my head a couple of weeks now, and I'm still trying to find a "why/why not" on this:

Instead of "regular" plastic tubing, would it be more efficient to use copper plumbing pipes for your watercooling system?

*Why it might work:*
- As far as I know, plumbing pipes can be bent pretty well.
- Copper pipes = heat dissipation. Plastic = insulation.
- These pipes are made for water anyway. Waterproof solutions to fit the pipes onto a G1/4 thread will probably exist or easily fixable.

*Why it might not work:*
- Obviously, copper pipes would cost more (but who cares?)
- It might not be possible to get a feasible solution to fit the pipes onto cooling blocks?
- Worse conditions for corrosion?
- Your flow would be invisible, thus hard to check?
- The heat dissipation benefit from copper pipes would be less than added restriction disadvantage or any other disadvantage involved?

Share your ideas, especially watercoolers, I'd like to hear your opinions on this weird idea of mine


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## paulm (Mar 16, 2009)

I'm not a big watercooler, but I predict that there is a good reason why this hasn't been widely implemented considering the cost isn't THAT much more significant. My guess is that their conductivity may be an issue, and the fact that heat will travel through the pipes instead of through the water, which might pose a problem. Probably difficult to maintain things which don't bend very easily and which you can't see through.

Might be worth a try though....

I found a thread on this topic, here: http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=151922


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## sneekypeet (Mar 16, 2009)

copper pipe would work fine. Might take some imagination to get all the tubes the right way.

Only reall issue I see is the fact of removing even just a CPU or a stick of ram. when you need to loosen the block and drain the rig everytime you swap a part, I think thats where the issues will arrise.

Compression fittions for copper pipe are really easy to test, they either leak or they dont, just tighten them till the leak stops.

As far as the flow, there are little flow meters you can add inline as a visual check of the pump working or not.


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## technicks (Mar 16, 2009)

You should look for WICU.
This is a copper that is soft enough to bend every shape. It's covered with plastic but you can easily cut it way with a sharp knife.
If you fill copper pipe with sand and heat it with a blow torch you can bend it very easy and it wont snap.


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## Thrackan (Mar 16, 2009)

Thanks for the link paulm.
I think that the only way to really make this effective is to solder fins to your copper pipes (yes that's how crazy my brainstorm went ) because you would restrict flow with the bends you need.

To get a correct picture: I'm most likely never going to try it, but I'm really interested in whether it would work.


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## DaMulta (Mar 16, 2009)

someone did this to a zelman a while back. Had a cave man avatar I think.....


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## phanbuey (Mar 16, 2009)

it would work but the amount of heat dissipated will not be worth the pain in the ass of removing/adding components from the system and managing the loop.

what WOULD work is a combination of plastic tubing and copper tubing... and the copper tubing would be soldered to the case, and the plastic tubing would be used to connect the case to the blocks / radiator / pump...

its actually a really great idea, Thrackan.


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## technicks (Mar 16, 2009)

http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/682.html

http://www.procooling.com/index.php?func=articles&disp=35


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## Thrackan (Mar 16, 2009)

A combination of tubing and copper would be wicked indeed, and a quick look tells me they sell copper pipes with 10 or 13mm inner diameter, which is 3/8" and 1/2" respectively...

Lol, I'm actually thinking of doing this on my Aluminix project now 

EDIT: That modded Zalman is wicked!


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## Tau (Mar 16, 2009)

Its a good idea, havent seen ti done and have actually been thinking about it myself (though a bit diffrently )  only issues i forsee are all the 90* corners.


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## Silverel (Mar 16, 2009)

Always thought about doing this if I ever went to watercooling. Albeit the setup would be a pain in the ass, all copper blocks, fittings, radiator, etc... with a clear reservoir, pressure indicator, leds or UV paint... ah yeah. It'd be worth it.


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## Thrackan (Mar 16, 2009)

That's where soft copper and careful bending comes in. I can't see why I couldn't bend the loops as far as my tubing goes now if I compare it to how the water and gas pipes run here...


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## phanbuey (Mar 16, 2009)

Thrackan said:


> A combination of tubing and copper would be wicked indeed, and a quick look tells me they sell copper pipes with 10 or 13mm inner diameter, which is 3/8" and 1/2" respectively...
> 
> Lol, I'm actually thinking of doing this on my Aluminix project now
> 
> EDIT: That modded Zalman is wicked!




i bet it would look so clean... copper pipes are much easier to hide... and instead of soldering them to the case, you can use thermal epoxy meant for chipset heatsinks, it would help alot with the heat dissipation...

man... im gonna do this my next build.  (but the combination of plastic and tubing inn case i wanna change blocks/chips/ hardware.)


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## MKmods (Mar 16, 2009)

I have done it a few times and it works REALLY well. 

As long as you arent constantly are swaping hardware its fine. You just need to think how to create an easily removable loop.

I actually soldered fins onto the tubes to further dissipate heat.

While plastic tubing is convenient it retains heat (why plastic cases run hot) so a copper system is much better.

Careful not to put it in a place where it can bump against electrical spots.


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## technicks (Mar 16, 2009)

Thrackan said:


> A combination of tubing and copper would be wicked indeed, and a quick look tells me they sell copper pipes with 10 or 13mm inner diameter, which is 3/8" and 1/2" respectively...
> 
> Lol, I'm actually thinking of doing this on my Aluminix project now
> 
> EDIT: That modded Zalman is wicked!



If you need fittings for copper just PM me, don't buy them because they are a bit expensive.
A friend of mine is ''loodgieter" so i can get you every fitting you need for way less then in the stores. Both solder or compression fittings.


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## Thrackan (Mar 16, 2009)

MK: Pics?
technicks: they're not that expensive at the Karwei/Gamma, are they?


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## MKmods (Mar 16, 2009)

Thrackan said:


> MK: Pics?
> technicks: they're not that expensive at the Karwei/Gamma, are they?



cant show them because I designed them for other companies...
(but imagine the tubing being sandwiched in the mobo tray )

I will be doing the next gen ones for my BadBoys of Modding Tribute case in the coming weeks.


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## technicks (Mar 16, 2009)

Yes they are. Trust me. You'd be better of mailing me.

The price depends on if you want to solder or use compression fittings. 
Compression fittings are more expensive.


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## Thrackan (Mar 16, 2009)

MKmods said:


> cant show them because I designed them for other companies...
> (but imagine the tubing being sandwiched in the mobo tray )
> 
> I will be doing the next gen ones for my BadBoys of Modding Tribute case in the coming weeks.



Ah, and there's no finalized product you can link to either?
Good thing I've got the Bad Boys project subscribed...


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## MKmods (Mar 16, 2009)

copper is really fun to work with. I saw a few case frames made from stiff wall tubing but I like to use the more flexible stuff (home depot and most hardware stores carry it)

One thing thats cool for example is if you take a 1/2" tube and drill a few 1/4" holes in the side you can solder 1/4" tubing to it and make ur own tees
(copper is pretty easy to work with)

Here is a shot of a beginning piece (think Tri SLI, lol)


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Mar 16, 2009)

MKmods said:


> copper is really fun to work with. I saw a few case frames made from stiff wall tubing but I like to use the more flexible stuff (home depot and most hardware stores carry it)
> 
> One thing thats cool for example is if you take a 1/2" tube and drill a few 1/4" holes in the side you can solder 1/4" tubing to it and make ur own tees
> (copper is pretty easy to work with)
> ...



You can solder it together?  I would think weld...  That is pretty sweet...  I have tried to solder together copper pennies...  it failed.


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## freaksavior (Mar 16, 2009)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> You can solder it together?  I would think weld...  That is pretty sweet...  I have tried to solder together copper pennies...  it failed.



if you tried to weld it wouldn't the copper melt? most copper pipe is thin-ish


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## MKmods (Mar 16, 2009)

soldering copper is like soldering wires. Takes a bit of trial and error to figure it out.

I sand the joints first, than brush on a bit of flux, than just add heat to the pipes and a bit of solder.



freaksavior said:


> if you tried to weld it wouldn't the copper melt? most copper pipe is thin-ish


welding wouldnt work (at least not for me, but brazing would) but solder makes perfectly good joints and uses much cheaper equipment.

(make sure the joints are snug so the solder dosent have to fill big gaps)


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## vbx (Mar 29, 2009)

I have a Sony VGC-RA830G and it is "supposedly" liquid cooled.  From the looks of it, I don't see a water tank, or a pump.  The 4 copper heat pipes go up into a heat sink or "radiator" and a big azz fan running air through it.

I can probably sue Sony for "misrepresentation", but I contracted them about this, and they claim there is a "special" liquid running through the copper pipes.  With no water tank or pump.. 

hmmm...






-------------------------
Sony’s innovative liquid-cooling system and advanced noise-reduction technology ensures premier performance without the heat or noise of traditional PC designs and cooling fans. A unique liquid-flow heat pipe draws heat away from the processor, while air-intake from the desktop tower’s mid-section maximizes air flow and optimizes acoustics. The result: cool, quiet and reliable performance from an incredibly powerful desktop computer.
--------------------------


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## rangerone766 (Mar 29, 2009)

technicks said:


> You should look for WICU.
> This is a copper that is soft enough to bend every shape. It's covered with plastic but you can easily cut it way with a sharp knife.
> If you fill copper pipe with sand and heat it with a blow torch you can bend it very easy and it wont snap.



easier way is fill the pipe with water and lightly cap both ends to hold the water in, then freeze it. then use a pipe bender. i've had to do that on a few custom plumbing jobs with decorative exposed piping. you may also want to polish up the copper, then spay on a coat of clear laquer. dull oxidised copper is uninteresting.


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## Steevo (Mar 29, 2009)

^ Holla.


I am doing plumbing right now, and without flux, and enough heat your solder will nt pullin and make contact with the surface.


The flux burns and wicks the solder into the crevaces, and without waiting to get the pipes hot enough and or whatever you are soldering it will stop the flow.


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## wojo (Mar 29, 2009)

*I was thinking the same*



technicks said:


> http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/682.html
> 
> http://www.procooling.com/index.php?func=articles&disp=35



I have also been thinking of using copper also but my idea was the same as in the pic above. I was looking at a different cpu cooler and fan.
Bob


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## DrPepper (Mar 29, 2009)

If you wanted to use copper pipes you would need solder to elbow joints so you could direct the pipes. Also it would look ugly as hell. Also since copper conducts heat better the pipes would be warm and hot water would be as hot as the pipes around them and that is the reason why copper pipes are used in central heating so that the water isn't cooled down as much just from travelling around the house.


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## pantherx12 (Mar 29, 2009)

vbx said:


> I have a Sony VGC-RA830G and it is "supposedly" liquid cooled.  From the looks of it, I don't see a water tank, or a pump.  The 4 copper heat pipes go up into a heat sink or "radiator" and a big azz fan running air through it.
> 
> I can probably sue Sony for "misrepresentation", but I contracted them about this, and they claim there is a "special" liquid running through the copper pipes.  With no water tank or pump..
> 
> ...




That means my laptop is " water cooled" too!


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