# Mystery of F-22 illnesses grows



## FordGT90Concept (May 10, 2012)

Yes, that's F-22 Raptor, the  fifth generation air superiority fighter...

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/09/mystery-of-f-22-illnesses-grows/?hpt=hp_t2



			
				Larry Shaughnessy said:
			
		

> Even as the Air Force searches for the reason pilots are getting sick flying the F-22, a new mystery about the troubled stealth fighter jet has come to light: Why are mechanics on the ground getting sick in the plane as well?
> 
> The Air Force has been looking into a number of reports that pilots experienced "hypoxia-like symptoms" aboard F-22s since April 2008. Hypoxia is oxygen deficiency.
> 
> ...


WTF!?!


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## LAN_deRf_HA (May 10, 2012)

When not on masks how is air supplied to the cockpit? This makes me wonder if some part is leaching something into the air that's blocking oxygen absorption, and that isn't related directly to the masks. Or some coincidental secondary cause.


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## D007 (May 10, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Yes, that's F-22 Raptor, the  fifth generation air superiority fighter...
> 
> http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/09/mystery-of-f-22-illnesses-grows/?hpt=hp_t2
> 
> ...



Yea they set a hard top for them of 22,000 feet, until they find out what's happening. May not help though. Could be fumes or something, getting into the cockpit. Billions of dollars, for a plane that kills it's pilot.. Money well spent...


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## qubit (May 10, 2012)

That's wierd. I reckon there's a design fault causing a chemical or fuel leak somewhere. It's very slight and therefore hard to trace.


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## Bow (May 10, 2012)

Thats to bad, my uncle was a design engineer for that plane.  Have to call and ask what he thinks


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## qubit (May 10, 2012)

Bow said:


> Thats to bad, my uncle was a design engineer for that plane.  Have to call and ask what he thinks



I'll bet he has a good idea of the cause, but will be gagged by national security restrictions from revealing it.


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## Batou1986 (May 10, 2012)

Its a flaw in the o2 system designed by Honeywell, they have yet to pin down exactly what not working right tho as the problem cannot be duplicated and seems to happen randomly.
Could be worse like the F-35 with its countless problems and failures.


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## n-ster (May 10, 2012)

tax payers def want this as a priority in this fantastic economy


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## qubit (May 10, 2012)

n-ster said:


> tax payers def want this as a priority in this fantastic economy



_Soo_ cutting.


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## FordGT90Concept (May 11, 2012)

I wonder if it has something to do with the skin of the aircraft.


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## lilhasselhoffer (May 11, 2012)

Just what we need; a kamikaze stealth fighter...?

Thankfully this hasn't, to my knowledge, cost lives yet.  I understand the desire to keep multiple suppliers unaware of other systems, for presumably the sake of security. On the other hand having no idea why something is failing and no cross communication means that internal developers need to figure out a problem, without the help of better qualified technical experts outside the project.

It is my hope that the hypoxia issue is solved soon.  This project stands to be a substantial boondogle if it isn't.



Seems kind of ironic that some of the components were probably manufactured in China.  Yes, I had to go there.


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## Inceptor (May 11, 2012)

Has the US Air force retired its F-15s yet?
I realize the F-22 can fly circles around an F-15, but if they're having problems...


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## RejZoR (May 11, 2012)

Nope, the iconic F-15 is still in service. Though i think it very small numbers and is widely replaced by the F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet, depending on the loadout needs for the mission.
Though it's interesting to observe dates of these aircrafts. They are all mostly made back in the 80's and 90's. Looks like the design was so good that they didn't feel like it to change them. Or they simply cost so much they can't really make new designs as quickly as they used to.


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## EarthDog (May 11, 2012)

Its seemingly not in the air system as engineers who were testing the thing sitting in the cockpit also got sick...while not being attached to that system.

F-15 = 1978 for its public release, and first flight in the early 70s.
F-18 = was 83 for its release, and first flight in the late 70's. Super Hornet was 90's, and the growler version was late 200x.


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## FordGT90Concept (May 11, 2012)

lilhasselhoffer said:


> Thankfully this hasn't, to my knowledge, cost lives yet.


Supposedly, the one that crashed was caused by hypoxia, pilot died:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/19/air-force-evidence-points-f-pilots-death/




lilhasselhoffer said:


> Seems kind of ironic that some of the components were probably manufactured in China.  Yes, I had to go there.


They found counterfeit parts in the Chinook supply chain.  I'm sure the supply chain for the Raptor is so tight, there's no chance any counterfeit parts could get in.




RejZoR said:


> Though it's interesting to observe dates of these aircrafts. They are all mostly made back in the 80's and 90's. Looks like the design was so good that they didn't feel like it to change them. Or they simply cost so much they can't really make new designs as quickly as they used to.


It takes decades to put a new design into commission during peace time.  Like right now, they're still working on new software upgrades to handle more missile types.


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## repman244 (May 11, 2012)

RejZoR said:


> Though it's interesting to observe dates of these aircrafts. They are all mostly made back in the 80's and 90's



If it ain't broken don't fix it I would say. 
All of them will be replaced once, it's a long and expensive process...the same way the Eurofighter is replacing a lot of aircrafts in many countries here in Europe and it will probably have the same lifetime as the aircrafts now in use.


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## TheMailMan78 (May 11, 2012)

repman244 said:


> If it ain't broken don't fix it I would say.
> All of them will be replaced once, it's a long and expensive process...the same way the Eurofighter is replacing a lot of aircrafts in many countries here in Europe and it will probably have the same lifetime as the aircrafts now in use.



Eurofighter........fail.


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## MT Alex (May 11, 2012)

RejZoR said:


> Nope, the iconic F-15 is still in service. Though i think it very small numbers and is widely replaced by the F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet, depending on the loadout needs for the mission.



Nope, the F-15 is still the air superiority/interceptor of the Air Force, deployed in large numbers.  The USAF doesn't use F-18s at all, they are deployed by the USN and USMC.


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## repman244 (May 11, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Eurofighter........fail.



Yeah, great post really explained it all, and it's funny to say that in this thread 


Anyhow they had this issue in the past already, with the F/A-18. The OBOGS (Onboard Oxygen Generating System) system is on F/A-18 as well. Exhaust air was being sucked back into the engine which of course contains CO. The F/A-18 suffered from this problem when pilots were stacked behind the jet blast deflector or other aircrafts awaiting their turn to taxi to the catapults. I think they implemented changes in ground procedures or changes to the F/A-18 which stopped the problem. If I remember correctly there were around 60 or more cases of this.

However in the F-22's case I remember reading that there were similar reports when they started them up in the hangar and caused exhaust air to be sucked back into the engines bleed air intake, but I don't know if this is the case here.
The problem with CO is that it does not dissipate from your bloodstream very quickly and it doesn't take a lot to lower the oxygen level. So after a longer exposure to even a low % can accumulate a high concentration of CO in your system.


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## ShiBDiB (May 13, 2012)

RejZoR said:


> Nope, the iconic F-15 is still in service. Though i think it very small numbers and is widely replaced by the F-18 Hornet and Super Hornet, depending on the loadout needs for the mission.
> Though it's interesting to observe dates of these aircrafts. They are all mostly made back in the 80's and 90's. Looks like the design was so good that they didn't feel like it to change them. Or they simply cost so much they can't really make new designs as quickly as they used to.



As was said.. the USAF doesnt use 18's. 15's 16's 22's and 35's r the primary air to air (and future) of the USAF



Also read in the air force times that pilots are beginning to refuse to fly the 22's, and taking out large life insurance policies until the problem is solved.
http://rt.com/usa/news/force-air-f-22-wilson-731/


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## RejZoR (May 14, 2012)

If we're strict, yes, USAF doesn't use them. F-18 (or sometimes referred as F/A-18) are usually deployed from aircraft carriers for air-2-air engagement and tactical bombing. These go under the US NAVY "flag".


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## ShiBDiB (May 14, 2012)

RejZoR said:


> If we're strict, yes, USAF doesn't use them. F-18 (or sometimes referred as F/A-18) are usually deployed from aircraft carriers for air-2-air engagement and tactical bombing. These go under the US NAVY "flag".



Which if you understand the organization of the US Military is a completely different branch and chain of command. 

Also the 18 is not a true air to air fighter. The F/A designator alone shows that its a multirole aircraft. Currently the 15/16/22 are the main true air to air fighters in the entire us military component.


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## PopcornMachine (May 14, 2012)

It's obviously due to the secret alien technology they've incorporated into the plane....


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## RejZoR (May 15, 2012)

ShiBDiB said:


> Which if you understand the organization of the US Military is a completely different branch and chain of command.
> 
> Also the 18 is not a true air to air fighter. The F/A designator alone shows that its a multirole aircraft. Currently the 15/16/22 are the main true air to air fighters in the entire us military component.



F/A-18 can engage into air-to-air combat if needed. Unlike F-117 or B-2 which are strictly ground bombers and would go down rather easily if cought by a fighter since they can't engage into air-to-air combate and they are also a bit slow and clumsy. Then again, F-22 sort of fills the gap between multirole fighters and bombers while still having stealth capability. And it looks damn cool a well.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jun 16, 2012)

Oxygen problems far more likely in F-22 than other fighter jets



			
				Adam Levine said:
			
		

> The new data, released by Sen. Mark Warner, D-Virginia, and Rep. Adam Kinzinger, R-Illinois, shows Raptor pilots have reported 26.43 hypoxia and hypoxia-like incidents per 100,000 flight hours. While that represents a mere fraction of total flight hours, it is far higher than incidents from other Air Force aircraft, including the A-10, the F-15E and the F-16.
> 
> Investigators are focusing on a part of the suit called the Combat Edge, which can hamper breathing and cause oxygen loss when combined with a physiological condition that collapses air sacs in the lungs, according to details of the report that were shared with CNN Security Clearance.


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