# Elon Musk snubbing Bitcoin…GPU stock/prices improve???



## Ralfi (May 13, 2021)

Could Elon’s detachment from Bitcoin due to its environmental impact from mining be the trigger we’ve been waiting for & spur some kind of stock availability? I don’t think so, but it’s an interesting thing how one man can have such an influence on Bitcoin & it’ll be something to look out for anyway…



Get a load of the soaring power consumption from mining…


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## sepheronx (May 13, 2021)

The key point in the statement from Tesla is that they also will be 'hodl'ing their bitcoins.  What this is, is him dumping the value to buy more.   There was also mention I read online that he was getting his wee wee slapped by green advocates cause I guess Tesla obtained a lot of investment money from such groups.

The real hard hitter was the altcoins or jokecoins as some were dumped by that Russian guy who gave them as donations to charities for India's relief due to covid issues.

This is temporary like the rest.  And I dont really see the need for a new thread regarding this.  GPU prices are not gonna get better.  Maybe in July the ones who were looking for a quick buck may scramble to sell their mining GPU's and that may help a bit.  But not as much as some of you guys are expecting.


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## Ralfi (May 13, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> And I dont really see the need for a new thread regarding this


Ahh yeah apologies. Didn’t see another topic on this, but it looks to be discussed in general Bitcoin threads.

If mods want to merge this into there, feel free.


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## Fluffmeister (May 13, 2021)

Do miners care about the environment?


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## Vya Domus (May 13, 2021)

First of all, understand that GPUs are used to mine ETH, not BTC. Secondly, while it is true that BTC crashes causes dips in basically every other coin ETH profits are still pretty good from what I can gather.


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## PooPipeBoy (May 13, 2021)

Elon Musk - The Crypto Whisperer


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## ixi (May 13, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> First of all, understand that GPUs are used to mine ETH, not BTC. Secondly, while it is true that BTC crashes causes dips in basically every other coin ETH profits are still pretty good from what I can gather.



Friend of mine use rtx 3070 to mine btc and he earns monthly 160e, so dunno how true is your info.


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## sepheronx (May 13, 2021)

ixi said:


> Friend of mine use rtx 3070 to mine btc and he earns monthly 160e, so dunno how true is your info.



As of this moment for me:

AMD RX 6800xt is making $16 CAD a day
ASUS RTX 3070 Dual OC $11 CAD a day
2x Gigabyte RTX 3070 Gaming OC $36 CAD a day

The asus dual gets the least cause its memory OC is pretty bad.

I was on average only making at best $24 per day.  Now I am making much more for the last few days.  This drop has reduced the amount I am making in terms of CAD but in terms of BTC it is still up.  And with ETH still being rather valuable, my overall payments per 4 hours is higher than ever.  About double to some cases triple.

Edit: I may have over-read what you are saying.  As @Superzuber says, you get paid in BTC and not whatever you are mining, if you are using Nicehash.  If you were mining directly, you would be mining the coins via joining pools.


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## Superzuber (May 13, 2021)

ixi said:


> Friend of mine use rtx 3070 to mine btc and he earns monthly 160e, so dunno how true is your info.


ppl are usually paid in BTC by the pool/platform (like nicehash), no matter what they mine (usually ETH)


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## Chomiq (May 13, 2021)

Fluffmeister said:


> Do miners care about the environment?


20 million concurrent steam users right now, each one pulling probably 300+ watts at least from the wall. That's a lot of "wasted" energy based on a single platform.

I'm not defending mining but gamers attacking mining over it not being "green" is casebook hypocrisy.


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## ixi (May 13, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> As of this moment for me:
> 
> AMD RX 6800xt is making $16 CAD a day
> ASUS RTX 3070 Dual OC $11 CAD a day
> ...



There is a small chance I'll get 5 rtx 3080 for 850 euro each, lets wait and see. If I'll be able to get them. Then I'll jump in in the buck wagon.


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## sepheronx (May 13, 2021)

ixi said:


> There is a small chance I'll get 5 rtx 3080 for 850 euro each, lets wait and see. If I'll be able to get them. Then I'll jump in in the buck wagon.



hey, good luck!  In July though, the payouts will drop considerably.  But if ETH prices spring up even further (like 6 - 8K), then it will soften the blow and more or less get us to what we were mining a few months ago.

Once it gets to ETH 2.0 like they been saying and wanting to push for this year or next year (next year I believe I have read the most), then we cant mine ETH anymore and nicehash will look at alternatives.   Those alternatives wont be as profitable either.

Just warning you.


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## Fluffmeister (May 13, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> 20 million concurrent steam users right now, each one pulling probably 300+ watts at least from the wall. That's a lot of "wasted" energy based on a single platform.
> 
> I'm not defending mining but gamers attacking mining over it not being "green" is casebook hypocrisy.


 
So that's no then.


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## freeagent (May 13, 2021)

My steam can be open for weeks at a time and I don't play anything. Or it can be off for weeks at a time. My rig is pulling 80w to type this.

Also, when one logs into steam to play a game, that game will only last an hour or two, more if you are hardcore I guess.

How long do you leave your mining client open? 

Unless someone has access to actual numbers, any number being thrown around is just that.. a number that is meaningless..


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## Chomiq (May 13, 2021)

Fluffmeister said:


> So that's no then.


Yeah miners don't care about environment, they care about profit, just look at the guys happy to announce that they'll be getting 5 3080's for mining when majority over here is pissed off that they can't get their hands on GPU. But do gamers really care about the environment or do they care that their hobby is getting more or more expensive due to demand from miners?


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## Vya Domus (May 13, 2021)

ixi said:


> Friend of mine use rtx 3070 to mine btc and he earns monthly 160e, so dunno how true is your info.



Why wouldn't it be true ? Didn't I say the same thing, that ETH mining is still profitable ?


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## BSim500 (May 13, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> Yeah miners don't care about environment, they care about profit, just look at the guys happy to announce that they'll be getting 5 3080's for mining when majority over here is pissed off that they can't get their hands on GPU. But do gamers really care about the environment or do they care that their hobby is getting more or more expensive due to demand from miners?


For many it's both and the _"If gaming uses even 1mw of electricity then it's no different to mining, and they're both the same, right?"_ is one giant false equivalence. Merely looking at the Steam HW Survey, the most popular gaming cards are 1050Ti and 1060 (75-120w) with 1650 and 1050 (75w) also being in the top 5. Most gamers only own one GPU not a farm of them. Most gamers only play a couple of hours per day not 24/7. There's a lot of iGPU's, APU's and mobile chips in there (as are 1366x768 resolutions obviously laptops drawing 10-30w under load). Impact per person is not even close to being the same as a disproportionate few pumping well over 1kw 24/7.


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## xtreemchaos (May 13, 2021)

i dont mine because of the toll on the planet, but i think Elon is a hypocrite but arnt we all to some degree.


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## neatfeatguy (May 13, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> 20 million concurrent steam users right now, each one pulling probably 300+ watts at least from the wall. That's a lot of "wasted" energy based on a single platform.
> 
> I'm not defending mining but gamers attacking mining over it not being "green" is casebook hypocrisy.



Wow. If you honestly think every person that has Steam open is actively gaming non-stop and believe they are all pulling upwards of 300W.....you're sorely mistaken.

I have Steam open on my computer, but the only thing I use it for is an easy VOIP to chat with my brother. My computer is probably on 12 hours out of the day and I probably average around 1 hour of gaming a day (some days I don't play, some days I may play 3-4 hours in a day).

The idea of using Steam as a tool to decide how many people are gaming simply based on current users on the platform is about as useful as using the "Steam Survey" to get an idea of how many people have new GPUs or how many people use Windows 10 vs Windows 7....or to get an idea of how many people utilize a 1080p resolution vs 2k or 4k resolutions.

I'm not defending gamers nor am I pointing fingers at gamers or miners, but your source to blame one group over the other is a very skewed source to use.


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## freeagent (May 13, 2021)

You have seen the racks.. the majority of these cards are not making it into peoples computer rooms or kitchen tables, they are sitting in big spaces owned by big company's or wealthy individuals making them money.

Or not..


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## Chomiq (May 13, 2021)

neatfeatguy said:


> Wow. If you honestly think every person that has Steam open is actively gaming non-stop and believe they are all pulling upwards of 300W.....you're sorely mistaken.
> 
> I have Steam open on my computer, but the only thing I use it for is an easy VOIP to chat with my brother. My computer is probably on 12 hours out of the day and I probably average around 1 hour of gaming a day (some days I don't play, some days I may play 3-4 hours in a day).
> 
> ...


I'm not blaming one over the other, I'm saying that both activities waste energy and by definition have bad impact on the environment.


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## Valantar (May 13, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> 20 million concurrent steam users right now, each one pulling probably 300+ watts at least from the wall. That's a lot of "wasted" energy based on a single platform.
> 
> I'm not defending mining but gamers attacking mining over it not being "green" is casebook hypocrisy.


A) That's a very high estimate. The average gaming PC, something like an i5+1060, pulls 200W or less from the wall in most games. A high end PC will obviously be more, but those are quite rare. Just look at the steam hw survey.
B) Gamers don't play 24/7. Most play for a few hours a day.
C) Playing games has social and personal value to people, creates positive experiences, etc. Mining crypto helps prop up a system for people to gamble on the value of arbitrary tokens. Personally, I see the former as far, far more valuable than the latter.


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## ixi (May 13, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Why wouldn't it be true ? Didn't I say the same thing, that ETH mining is still profitable ?



You said before that people with gpu don't mine btc. Instead of btc they mine eth. I'm saying that my friend mines btc with gpu. And still earns monthly 160e.


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## Vya Domus (May 13, 2021)

ixi said:


> You said before that with gpu people don't mine btc. Instead of btc they mine eth. I'm saying that my friend mines btc with gpu.



No he doesn't, BTC mining with GPUs is long dead. What he probably meant to tell you is that he gets payed in BTC but the actual coin that is mined is ETH or something else. Then it gets converted and he receives BTC.


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## Caring1 (May 13, 2021)

Elon's words mean nothing as long as he holds on to his Bitcoins.
It's like some clown buying a Tesla and then saying they won't drive it because it's manufacturing process wasn't green.


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## R-T-B (May 13, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> No he doesn't, BTC mining with GPUs is long dead. What he probably meant to tell you is that he gets payed in BTC but the actual coin that is mined is ETH or something else. Then it gets converted and he receives BTC.


This is correct.


Fluffmeister said:


> Do miners care about the environment?


Most don't, but it always bothered me.  In the back of my mind I always knew something was amoral about that portion of it.

It's why I never mine with more than one/two gpus at a time now, and only at idle.  and I'm mining a coin that eventually will not be mined, Ethereum.  I like that they have an exit stratedgy from mining.  It's a feature to me, not a minus.

But this is like the 3rd or 4th thread on bitcoin price.  I see this as excessive.


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## ixi (May 13, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> No he doesn't, BTC mining with GPUs is long dead. What he probably meant to tell you is that he gets payed in BTC but the actual coin that is mined is ETH or something else. Then it gets converted and he receives BTC.




Maybe, maybe. But mining other currency and getting paid by btc is alot better than eth or anything else. So this makes no sense.


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## Space Lynx (May 13, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> As of this moment for me:
> 
> AMD RX 6800xt is making $16 CAD a day
> ASUS RTX 3070 Dual OC $11 CAD a day
> ...



but in the long term, it's actually negative net gains, when society begins to collapse due to climate change advancing more rapidly than anyone ever predicted. the only way to stop climate change at this point is probably if we all went back to village life, no more cars, no more computers for gaming, no more anything. even then it's probably to late without carbon capture of some kind on a mass scale.  humans have horribly miscalculated the speed of their impact imo.  we will find out in ten years. I hope I am wrong.

Elon is right in that we need to become a multi-planet species, and fast. We will not develop tools to terraform Mars, but at least we can survive on it when we screw this one up. The those that come after us, several generations after us, hopefully they will be smarter and figure out new systems of living.


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## sepheronx (May 13, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> but in the long term, it's actually negative net gains, when society begins to collapse due to climate change advancing more rapidly than anyone ever predicted. the only way to stop climate change at this point is probably if we all went back to village life, no more cars, no more computers for gaming, no more anything. even then it's probably to late without carbon capture of some kind on a mass scale.  humans have horribly miscalculated the speed of their impact imo.  we will find out in ten years. I hope I am wrong.
> 
> Elon is right in that we need to become a multi-planet species, and fast. We will not develop tools to terraform Mars, but at least we can survive on it when we screw this one up. The those that come after us, several generations after us, hopefully they will be smarter and figure out new systems of living.


sure, whatever you say.

If you ever get a chance to drop off into India, then you can cry to me about pollution and such (you see, I had the luxury of traveling to other countries and seeing the kind of crap they do to their environment compared to Canada).  My 800KW/h per month (total household consumption) isn't the problem.  So you can spare me your higher than thou mentality of the environment.


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## birdie (May 13, 2021)

He's crushed Bitcoin - that's for sure (not really, we've seen much stronger sways in valuation when it lost close to 80% over the course of a month, e.g. in January 2018). But for those who are not keenly aware, the Bitcoin price has little to do with the GPU market as Bitcoin has been mined on ASICs for over seven years now.

On the other hand:

1. Ethereum and multiple other altcoins are mined on GPUs
2. Ethereum is a platform for launching and running worthless crappy scam schemes called ICOs - most of which will die out less than two years after launch, as a result, Ethereum's demand is quite high.

This doesn't bode well for the GPU market at all.

The PoS scheme some people have been talking about has been planned for two years now for Ethereum - it's still not implemented in any shape or form, and there are reasons to believe it has the capacity to destroy any crypto which implements it, as it allows the bad actor to purchase as many coins as possible and control the cryptocoin.

See this thread for more info: _[bitcoin-dev] Opinion on proof of stake in future._


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## Valantar (May 13, 2021)

Caring1 said:


> Elon's words mean nothing as long as he holds on to his Bitcoins.
> It's like some clown buying a Tesla and then saying they won't drive it because it's manufacturing process wasn't green.


It would be vary interesting to see what happened if he publicly destroyed his wallet(s).


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## Space Lynx (May 13, 2021)

birdie said:


> He's crushed Bitcoin - that's for sure (not really, we've seen much stronger sways in valuation when it lost close to 80% over the course of a month, e.g. in January 2018). But for those who are not keenly aware, the Bitcoin price has little to do with the GPU market as Bitcoin has been mined on ASICs for over seven years now.
> 
> On the other hand:
> 
> ...



short term greed will win out, he hasn't crushed bitcoin, he gave it life though, the hedgefunds and banks that now own bitcoin will make sure it doesn't crash to far. I'm afraid human short term greed is the downfall of the species, as it always has been. Limbic System is more powerful than Cortex system. Hopefully the species that comes after us in a few million years will have more cortex, less limbic.  I do think you need both for flourishment, humans unfortunately still have slightly to big of a limbic system for long term flourishment.


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## phill (May 13, 2021)

ixi said:


> You said before that people with gpu don't mine btc. Instead of btc they mine eth. I'm saying that my friend mines btc with gpu. And still earns monthly 160e.


I think what you mean is that, he uses Nicehash and they pay out in BTC...  It's kinda converted into BTC but your not as such mining it...  

As per the news I saw about this, I find it amazing how much one mans word influences the world...  Sad I think


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## R-T-B (May 13, 2021)

birdie said:


> as it allows the bad actor to purchase as many coins as possible and control the cryptocoin.


I mean you can just buy a shitton of mining hardware now too for probably cheaper.

It's not a real issue.  At least Ethereum has a transition plan, and now finally, a schedule.  We'll see PoS in 2022 (barring any issues, of course).



ixi said:


> Maybe, maybe. But mining other currency and getting paid by btc is alot better than eth or anything else. So this makes no sense.


It does make sense, it operates like any currency exchange, you get paid an equivalent value amount.  Though personally I'd just keep the eth over btc.


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## Mescalamba (May 13, 2021)

People will pay attention to him couple times and if he keeps doing this, they will stop.

Much like first two times China banned BTC or just crypto in general. After they did that for third time (dont ask why or how) nobody probably noticed. Guy that cried wolf and so on..

I think hope for GPUs is in form of AMD making good gaming cards with piss poor mining capability and nVidia trying their best to choke those GPUs with BIOS blocks.

But in general sense it wont help that much, cause main issue is Taiwan being dry as fk right now.



R-T-B said:


> I mean you can just buy a shitton of mining hardware now too for probably cheaper.
> 
> It's not a real issue.  At least Ethereum has a transition plan, and now finally, a schedule.  We'll see PoS in 2022 (barring any issues, of course).
> 
> ...


2022 .. great just some time before there will be more chip fabs.  TSMC for sure will be happy..

I dont get that keeping BTC over ETH either. Makes no sense. For some less known coins, probably. Altho usually those less known coins have possibility of gaining like 30% in a day, so not keeping them? Ehm, well probably reason why I dont mine anything.


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## R-T-B (May 14, 2021)

Mescalamba said:


> 2022 .. great just some time before there will be more chip fabs.  TSMC for sure will be happy..


PoS doesn't need silicon.  Gamers will find the market quite favorable if they build up and the mining demand vanishes.


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## sepheronx (May 14, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> PoS doesn't need silicon.  Gamers will find the market quite favorable if they build up and the mining demand vanishes.


But the other coins do as they are PoW.  And we dont even know if or when ETH will go 2.0 and total PoS.


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## R-T-B (May 14, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> And we dont even know if or when ETH will go 2.0 and total PoS.


They have a roadmap.  Target is 2022.  Take that for what it's worth.

I really doubt it's an "if" but delays would not surprise me given the hurdles involved.



sepheronx said:


> But the other coins do as they are PoW.


There will indeed always be PoW coins but that wasn't what I was replying about.


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## thesmokingman (May 14, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> I'm not blaming one over the other, I'm saying that both activities waste energy and by definition have bad impact on the environment.


Just being a living human being is bad on the environment lmao.

The problem is that the great majority of mining is really dirty. At least China is cracking down on all the subsidized coal powered mining in greater mongolia.


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## Mescalamba (May 14, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I mean you can just buy a shitton of mining hardware now too for probably cheaper.
> 
> It's not a real issue.  At least Ethereum has a transition plan, and now finally, a schedule.  We'll see PoS in 2022 (barring any issues, of course).
> 
> ...





R-T-B said:


> PoS doesn't need silicon.  Gamers will find the market quite favorable if they build up and the mining demand vanishes.



Point is that TSMC will have next FABs ready.. just in time to NOT have any use for them.  Cause PoS.


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## Hardcore Games (May 15, 2021)

The crypto bubble will eventually fade but until then gamers are SOL for hardware


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## Xzibit (May 15, 2021)

Mescalamba said:


> Much like first two times China banned BTC or just crypto in general. After they did that for third time (dont ask why or how) nobody probably noticed. Guy that cried wolf and so on..



Interesting study



> April 2020, China accounted for more than 75% of Bitcoin blockchain operation around the world.



China = 78.89%
North America = 6.81%
Europe and Others = 14.08%


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## Mescalamba (May 17, 2021)

Xzibit said:


> Interesting study
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yea, thats why they tried to ban it. Im not sure if its still banned or not. I think officially it probably is. China has slight issue in being strange hybrid between communism and hardcore capitalism. Which causes all sorts of problems for ppl that have money and dont want keep them in "useless" currency that China uses. Or just want their profits elsewhere without ruling party knowing.

China also has biggest mining farms in the world. Unsure if thats sanctioned by party or not.


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## R-T-B (May 17, 2021)

Mescalamba said:


> Yea, thats why they tried to ban it. Im not sure if its still banned or not. I think officially it probably is. China has slight issue in being strange hybrid between communism and hardcore capitalism. Which causes all sorts of problems for ppl that have money and dont want keep them in "useless" currency that China uses. Or just want their profits elsewhere without ruling party knowing.
> 
> China also has biggest mining farms in the world. Unsure if thats sanctioned by party or not.


The ban in china is...  weird.  Making mining hardware is legal.  CryptoCurrency possesion is legal.  Possesion of a miner is legal.  But the act of mining itself is technically illegal.

This of course, makes it hard to prove.  And hard to catch.


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## dragontamer5788 (May 17, 2021)

If miners do crash, Imma buy myself a few Vega56 / Vega64 from Ebay and build myself a dream GPU rig.

For what? Well, I'm writing this program that uses GPU compute. No, its not done. Wait, you expect my hobby project to actually be done in a reasonable period of time?  Honestly, that's the only thing holding me back: its not like my actual workstation at home is preventing me from programming (really, its life). But I still kinda want a big-ol 2x or 3x GPU rig and play around with it. I don't even know how or why to use it, I just sorta want one...


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## Mescalamba (May 17, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> If miners do crash, Imma buy myself a few Vega56 / Vega64 from Ebay and build myself a dream GPU rig.
> 
> For what? Well, I'm writing this program that uses GPU compute. No, its not done. Wait, you expect my hobby project to actually be done in a reasonable period of time?  Honestly, that's the only thing holding me back: its not like my actual workstation at home is preventing me from programming (really, its life). But I still kinda want a big-ol 2x or 3x GPU rig and play around with it. I don't even know how or why to use it, I just sorta want one...



Even full size crash would do at most around 85% from ATH, which would be probably around or slightly under 10k of USD per BTC. ETH does follow BTC right now, but it doesnt mean it will always do that and often it does not. Which means that even in worst case scenario (or best based on perspective) it might still be sorta viable to mine. And I suspect today miners might be slightly more clever than previous ones, which most likely means that "sale" wont happen in big scale. Only ppl that did it for "fun" or as hobby will sell. If that.

Most likely only way out of this is hoping there will be enough FABs to meet demand for GPUs. In the future. Distant.

While also hoping that despite USD printers go super brrrrr, USD wont lose value that much. Which sadly I think isnt going to happen. Its just way too much money printed to not fuck up economics in global scale somehow.


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## dragontamer5788 (May 17, 2021)

Mescalamba said:


> While also hoping that despite USD printers go super brrrrr, USD wont lose value that much. Which sadly I think isnt going to happen. Its just way too much money printed to not fuck up economics in global scale somehow.



DOGECOIN goes *infinite burr* by design. Because DOGE is a joke. Clearly no one gives a care.

Elon still pumping DOGE it seems, despite hating on BTC. Whatever, its good entertainment, but I can't imagine any of this makes sense.


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