# Water cooling pump dying?



## MxPhenom 216 (Jan 20, 2014)

Was playing Battlefield 4 tonight, when my system turned off, and rebooting with a POST message saying:

"CPU Over Temperature Error"

First time I have ever seen that, and usually my CPU never gets higher then 50. I took my headphones off and noticed that my system seems a bit quieter, no pump noise really. Turned off the system. Let it sit for a bit, turn it back on, and noticed my GPU temp got to 50c on boot, it doesn't even hit 40c in games. Stuff seems to be fine now though at idle, GPU temp is 26c (still a bit high) CPU at about 23c (which is normal). I have noticed that lately my pump has been acting funny, but it is hard to tell that it is actually working now.


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## ne6togadno (Jan 20, 2014)

did you tried to use scroll of resurrection on pump


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jan 20, 2014)

ne6togadno said:


> did you tried to use scroll of resurrection on pump



The what? Sounds like a Skyrim reference..........


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## ne6togadno (Jan 20, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> The what? Sounds like a Skyrim reference..........


then you go here and get your new pump.
you can test your current pump. but in any case you'll have to disconnect loop


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## RCoon (Jan 20, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> The what? Sounds like a Skyrim reference..........


 
World of Warcraft reference, or at least they use a similar thing.


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## ne6togadno (Jan 20, 2014)

RCoon said:


> World of Warcraft reference, or at least they use a similar thing.


 wasnt sure if he have learned res spell so using scroll will work for sure


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## radrok (Jan 20, 2014)

Do you have a flow monitor? That's the best way to tell if your pump is giving up, aside from checking your usual idle and load temperatures.


I'd use vodka redbull directly injected into the loop compared to a resurrection scroll btw.


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## erocker (Jan 20, 2014)

There should be some kind of movement in the reservoir.


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## the54thvoid (Jan 20, 2014)

radrok said:


> Do you have a flow monitor? That's the best way to tell if your pump is giving up, aside from checking your usual idle and load temperatures.
> 
> 
> I'd use vodka redbull directly injected into the loop compared to a resurrection scroll btw.



Think I'm thread stalking you.  Normally it's RCoon who I seem to shadow.

I use a Primochill flow monitor (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DLUX0QW/?tag=tec06d-20) - for this exact reason, I'll know when my pump stops squirting and my PC needs a trip to the Laing D5 Viagra clinic


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## RCoon (Jan 20, 2014)

the54thvoid said:


> Think I'm thread stalking you.  Normally it's RCoon who I seem to shadow.
> 
> I use a Primochill flow monitor (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DLUX0QW/?tag=tec06d-20) - for this exact reason, I'll know when my pump stops squirting and my PC needs a trip to the Laing D5 Viagra clinic


 
This is also a valid reason to employ quick disconnects before and after the pump unit!

EDIT: Stick your hand on the pump. If you can't feel a gentle hum, the pump is dead. Usually before a pump dies it makes a terrible grinding noise.


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## radrok (Jan 20, 2014)

RCoon said:


> This is also a valid reason to employ quick disconnects before and after the pump unit!



Yeah I switched almost all of my fittings to quick disconnects, this way I can detach pump, res , GPUs, CPU and motherboard without emptying the loop.

I never have to refill the loop, even when I switch out major components.

That's one of the reasons I don't use a case 

It's a bit costly though, quick disconnects are expensive.


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## HammerON (Jan 20, 2014)

I have wanted to use a flow monitor in some of my builds. Right now I am using a Koolance dual pump res 5.25" bay and I like the fact that I can see the water moving


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## Outback Bronze (Jan 20, 2014)

Dunno bout you guys but i would just touch the pump to feel if its vibrating. 

One of my old pumps shit itself and it used to make a hell of a noise.

What pump you using?


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## ne6togadno (Jan 20, 2014)

Outback Bronze said:


> Dunno bout you guys but i would just touch the pump to feel if its vibrating.
> One of my old pumps shit itself and it used to make a hell of a noise.


problem is that he already missed hell of a noise moment and now even touching it he wont make any difference if he hasnt touched it while it was working.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Feb 22, 2014)

So going to bump this thread back up instead of making a new one. There must be a problem with this pump or the way I have it connected to the PSU, as itll have trouble either starting up (ill hear it click) or when it does it makes a audible high pitch screech noise, and when it is running, sometimes itll just turn off, like its not getting enough power. I have it connected to the PSU with a 3 pin to 4 pin molex connection. Been thinking about just getting a brand new MCP350 from PPCS that come default with just the 4 pin molex connection, rather then 3 pin.


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## theo2021 (Feb 22, 2014)

Your connection should be good since the 3pin and the molex have max 12V!


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## fullinfusion (Feb 23, 2014)

Ever pull the top off the pump? And I assume its a 350 mpc. I had a problem with the power and turned out that when the power was plugged into the molex it would sorta pugh out the pin from the housing it self. I just pushed it in with atiny screw driver and never nad an issue sense. Id take the pump head apart and pull the iimpeller out and clean it up. I had a tiny clicking noise that pissed me off and what I found was a tiny piece of metal from a thread probably from production.  Anyway the impeller being magnetic attract and sliver of metal and hey ya never know.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Feb 23, 2014)

fullinfusion said:


> Ever pull the top off the pump? And I assume its a 350 mpc. I had a problem with the power and turned out that when the power was plugged into the molex it would sorta pugh out the pin from the housing it self. I just pushed it in with atiny screw driver and never nad an issue sense. Id take the pump head apart and pull the iimpeller out and clean it up. I had a tiny clicking noise that pissed me off and what I found was a tiny piece of metal from a thread probably from production.  Anyway the impeller being magnetic attract and sliver of metal and hey ya never know.



I just said fuck it and bought a brand new MCP350 from PPCS


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## de.das.dude (Feb 23, 2014)

the pump itself is two parts. mechanical and electronic motor.
mechanical part wont fail... its an impeller. but electronics will definitely fail.


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## micropage7 (Feb 23, 2014)

de.das.dude said:


> the pump itself is two parts. mechanical and electronic motor.
> mechanical part wont fail... its an impeller. but electronics will definitely fail.


maybe the bearing, but it should run for long term


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## de.das.dude (Feb 23, 2014)

micropage7 said:


> maybe the bearing, but it should run for long term


more likely for the coil to fail. sudden load can cause too much current through and fail.

even if bearing fails, it would turn. unless bearing is made of plastic.


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## Wrigleyvillain (Feb 23, 2014)

If the new on has the 3 pin connector with single wire for RPM monitor from mobo fan port then use it.


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## Steevo (Feb 23, 2014)

HammerON said:


> I have wanted to use a flow monitor in some of my builds. Right now I am using a Koolance dual pump res 5.25" bay and I like the fact that I can see the water moving


I have thought about using a Raven RFM15 a few times in mine, but don't know where it would fit in the case, the PWM header would read the sensor output.


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## PopcornMachine (Feb 23, 2014)

funny, my pump just died too.  it was a combo res with pump inside.  turned on my system friday and noticed overheating, then pump not pumping.

got a new mcp665-b, no res, and can't seem to get water to go through cpu block.  took it off and washed it out don't see any blockage.

very annoying process so far.


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## Steevo (Feb 23, 2014)

Is the pump primed? No blockage of the impeller?


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## PopcornMachine (Feb 23, 2014)

primed?  I have t-port I'm using to fill the top of the loop, and the pump itself has water in it, it that's what you mean.

just won't flow. doesn't move.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Feb 23, 2014)

Wrigleyvillain said:


> If the new on has the 3 pin connector with single wire for RPM monitor from mobo fan port then use it.



The new one goes straight to a 4 pin molex. No 3 pin connection. At least according to specs, but ill know once the pump is actually in my hands.


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## manofthem (Feb 23, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> The new one goes straight to a 4 pin molex. No 3 pin connection. At least according to specs, but ill know once the pump is actually in my hands.



My 655 goes straight to 4pin molex as did my old mcp355.  Wasn't til recently where I saw pumps with 3pin connector; shows what I know 

I think I'd prefer the 4pin molex. 

I think you said you connected your pump with a 3pin to 4pin molex connection.  Ever try going straight to the mobo, just out of curiosity?


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## MxPhenom 216 (Feb 23, 2014)

manofthem said:


> My 655 goes straight to 4pin molex as did my old mcp355.  Wasn't til recently where I saw pumps with 3pin connector; shows what I know
> 
> I think I'd prefer the 4pin molex.
> 
> I think you said you connected your pump with a 3pin to 4pin molex connection.  Ever try going straight to the mobo, just out of curiosity?



No, its 12-15w pump, not sure that would be good, pulling that much power from motherboard fan header lol.


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## bmaverick (Feb 24, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> I just said fuck it and bought a brand new MCP350 from PPCS




So, how much does a MCP350 pump cost from PPCS these days? 

The MCP350 pumps I offer are "new" too and $35 shipped anywhere in the USA.


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## cadaveca (Feb 24, 2014)

bmaverick said:


> So, how much does a MCP350 pump cost from PPCS these days?
> 
> The MCP350 pumps I offer are "new" too and $35 shipped anywhere in the USA.


Too bad the one that died was one of yours already. Do you offer RMA?


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## MT Alex (Feb 24, 2014)

bmaverick said:


> So, how much does a MCP350 pump cost from PPCS these days?



Way too much.


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## cadaveca (Feb 24, 2014)

MT Alex said:


> Way too much.


But less than they were about a year ago or so. Can be found for $69 near local to me, can't imagine they'd cost much more for you guys..

https://www.dazmode.com/store/product/dazmode_storm_ddc_3_25_18w_pump/


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## broken pixel (Feb 24, 2014)

If the pump uses an impeller then it will make a chattering sound when it is going bad.


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## MT Alex (Feb 24, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> But less than they were about a year ago or so. Can be found for $69 near local to me, can't imagine they'd cost much more for you guys..
> 
> https://www.dazmode.com/store/product/dazmode_storm_ddc_3_25_18w_pump/



True, but that's way too much to pay for a standard DDC.  A 355 or 35X can be had for not much more money, or a D5 for about the same.  $35 is what they should be selling for.

Regardless, I don't think the pump was a total loss, he probably just got another for the hell of it.  The ceramic bearing isn't/wasn't bad.


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## cadaveca (Feb 24, 2014)

MT Alex said:


> True, but that's way too much to pay for a standard DDC.  A 355 or 35X can be had for not much more money, or a D5 for about the same.  $35 is what they should be selling for.
> 
> Regardless, I don't think the pump was a total loss, he probably just got another for the hell of it.  The ceramic bearing isn't/wasn't bad.


You gonna tell him to break out the soldering iron? 

He can afford it, anyway. 

And yeah, you're right about the prices, but they do seem to be falling back down lately. I'm eager to see Swifttech's new pump and AIOs, but they are probably still a few months out yet, so now water for me until then, I guess. I was kinda hoping that might spur things even more downward, but given the market as of late, charge premium prices for those that go full-out seems to be the norm now.


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## Wrigleyvillain (Feb 24, 2014)

Yeah I have had a few pumps with just 3-pin but they have never seemed to work off a fan header anyway. The D5 Vario I recently got has 4-pin molex plus a 3-pin with a single wire (as that is all that is needed for RPM monitoring).


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## Sasqui (Feb 24, 2014)

D5's all the way baby.  The only negative I've noticed is the older ones tend to be noisy.  The new ones are absolutely silent... only hear it when there's bubbles that haven't been captured by the res.  Pumps a shit load of water.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Feb 25, 2014)

I cannot run a D5 pump due to my Res/pump top only works with DDC pumps (MCP350,355, and MCP35X)


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## bmaverick (Feb 26, 2014)

Wrigleyvillain said:


> Yeah I have had a few pumps with just 3-pin but they have never seemed to work off a fan header anyway. The D5 Vario I recently got has 4-pin molex plus a 3-pin with a single wire (as that is all that is needed for RPM monitoring).



The DDC-1T aka MCP350 is 10W and runs easily off of the CPU header.  That's how I've had mine since 2003 running nearly 24/7/365.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Feb 26, 2014)

bmaverick said:


> The DDC-1T aka MCP350 is 10W and runs easily off of the CPU header.  That's how I've had mine since 2003 running nearly 24/7/365.



MCP350, maxes out at 12w at 12v. Most motherboard headers are 1A (12w). So Running a MCP350 while still not exactly over 12w, is still pushing the limits of the header.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Feb 27, 2014)

New pump came. Definitely has a 4 pin molex and a 3 pin for rpm monitoring.


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## erocker (Feb 27, 2014)

de.das.dude said:


> even if bearing fails, it would turn. unless bearing is made of plastic.



I've seen this happen enough times (with various metal bearings from industrial to automotive to skateboards) to confidently say that you're wrong.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 27, 2014)

PopcornMachine said:


> funny, my pump just died too.  it was a combo res with pump inside.  turned on my system friday and noticed overheating, then pump not pumping.
> 
> got a new mcp665-b, no res, and can't seem to get water to go through cpu block.  took it off and washed it out don't see any blockage.
> 
> very annoying process so far.


Tip I order three meters of tube each mess about and use it to sort of , in situ flush all of the loop


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## cadaveca (Feb 27, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> New pump came. Definitely has a 4 pin molex and a 3 pin for rpm monitoring.


Now that you got the new pump, you should PM bmaverick, and ask him for ideas on how to fix the old one. Might be worth playing with as a learning experience.

After like 10 years of selling these pumps, I doubt anyone knows them better.

At the same time, the design IS 10 years old, and hopefully the new one gives you better temps.


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## fullinfusion (Feb 27, 2014)

micropage7 said:


> maybe the bearing, but it should run for long term


There is no bearing in that pump, just a ceramic ball the impeller sits on.


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## MT Alex (Feb 27, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> Now that you got the new pump, you should PM bmaverick, and ask him for ideas on how to fix the old one. Might be worth playing with as a learning experience.
> 
> After like 10 years of selling these pumps, I doubt anyone knows them better.



I couldn't agree more, even after reading post #41.  Young shaver



fullinfusion said:


> There is no bearing in that pump, just a ceramic ball the impeller sits on.



True that.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Feb 27, 2014)

MT Alex said:


> I couldn't agree more, even after reading post #41.  Young shaver
> 
> 
> 
> True that.



What's wrong with post 41 old shaver? 

The box of the pump says 10w, but if you go look at the specs online at Swiftech website is has a range of like 8w-12w, meaning 12w is the maximum. I don't run any fans on my motherboard anyways, I either have a fan controller or what I have now, the NZXT Fan Power Hub that works really well.


I might take the pump apart and see if anything is blatently obvious, as it has been running solid as of late, hasn't turned off. But this new pump will be going into my system this weekend. Just need to go get a Torx screw driver (That's bigger then T6) to be able to get the head of the pump off to put onto my reservoir top.


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## de.das.dude (Feb 27, 2014)

erocker said:


> I've seen this happen enough times (with various metal bearings from industrial to automotive to skateboards) to confidently say that you're wrong.



the failure u are talking of is catastrophic. the forces in a pump are much smaller. unless the plastic housing cracks and breaks and dislocated i dont see how it will have enough force to stop the motion.

one thing that might happen, is that the impeller broke(which happens to be plastic) and tiny pieces got lodged and stopped it from moving.


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## cadaveca (Feb 27, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> What's wrong with post 41 old shaver?
> 
> The box of the pump says 10w, but if you go look at the specs online at Swiftech website is has a range of like 8w-12w, meaning 12w is the maximum. I don't run any fans on my motherboard anyways, I either have a fan controller or what I have now, the NZXT Fan Power Hub that works really well.
> 
> ...




Point is, if the pump stopped because it was falling apart...you now have crap in your loop that you should clean out, or you're gonna kill the new one fairly quickly. Pull the pump apart, investigate why it died, and deal with the problem fully. Chances are it's a simply electrical flaw that can be fixed really easily. It's not like these things are complex.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Mar 1, 2014)

Have the new pump in. Just bleeding out the loop now. This pump has noticeably more power behind it. And its about 2x quieter. Pump used to be the most noticeable thing in terms of noise when it was working, now I think that job as switch over to my SP120s.


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## theonedub (Mar 1, 2014)

Must be that time of the year, my pump (EK DCP 4.0) is dying, too. Grinding noticeably bad, ordered my replacement yesterday


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## MxPhenom 216 (Mar 2, 2014)

Mine would make the grinding noise every time it would turn on.


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## theonedub (Mar 2, 2014)

So you picked up an exact replacement and you say its much quieter than yours was even before you heard the grinding? I've always felt this pump of mine was much louder than what everyone who owned or reviewed them seemed to say. I was going to order a new D5 with a nice top and cover for looks and to cut the noise, but I have a feeling my pump has been messed up for some time and this new one will be much quieter.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Mar 2, 2014)

theonedub said:


> So you picked up an exact replacement and you say its much quieter than yours was even before you heard the grinding? I've always felt this pump of mine was much louder than what everyone who owned or reviewed them seemed to say. I was going to order a new D5 with a nice top and cover for looks and to cut the noise, but I have a feeling my pump has been messed up for some time and this new one will be much quieter.



Well it was an older version of the MCP350. Quite a bit older. I got one of the brand new ones(Could potentially modify it to a 355 (18w) pump) , and it is much much quieter, more power too. There is a lot more movement in the reservoir then the other pump. .

Overall temperature drops at load on my 4770k at 4.4GHZ is about 4-6 degrees(Ambients are a bit lower today though). Just from pump change.


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## bmaverick (Mar 2, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> MCP350, maxes out at 12w at 12v. Most motherboard headers are 1A (12w). So Running a MCP350 while still not exactly over 12w, is still pushing the limits of the header.



Actually the DDC-1T aka MCP350 is only 10W.  The fan header can support 12W.  Many people just run the DDC-1T from the CPU fan header to get the tach speed of the pump reported in the fan speed app of Win7/8.   What really pushes the limits on the header is the amount of mA being drawn.  The DDC-1T draws a mere 750mA under load.  Well below the Intel ATX form factor mobo specification.  Laing did this for a reason for the HP data servers found throughout the banking industry around the world; These 1U and 2U rack servers run 24/7/365.


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## fullinfusion (Mar 2, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Well it was an older version of the MCP350. Quite a bit older. I got one of the brand new ones(Could potentially modify it to a 355 (18w) pump) , and it is much much quieter, more power too. There is a lot more movement in the reservoir then the other pump. .
> 
> Overall temperature drops at load on my 4770k at 4.4GHZ is about 4-6 degrees(Ambients are a bit lower today though). Just from pump change.


I run the same pump and I cant even here it run! And you cant wait to install the corsair 120 sp's?? You Fool!!!


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## MxPhenom 216 (Mar 2, 2014)

fullinfusion said:


> I run the same pump and I cant even here it run! And you cant wait to install the corsair 120 sp's?? You Fool!!!



What about SP120s? Ive had them installed this whole time?


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## fullinfusion (Mar 2, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> What about SP120s? Ive had them installed this whole time?


Lol I was waiting for you to give me the shits about my post lol!

I was getting at that be the 1st thng I'd install! I have 2 SP 120's on my rad and a HF 120 blowing over my card! Best freaking fans I've ever used thanks to you my friend!


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## MxPhenom 216 (Mar 2, 2014)

fullinfusion said:


> Lol I was waiting for you to give me the shits about my post lol!
> 
> I was getting at that be the 1st thng I'd install! I have 2 SP 120's on my rad and a HF 120 blowing over my card! Best freaking fans I've ever used thanks to you my friend!



Yep, I like them a lot. Some people have had a lot fail on them, but none of mine have and I have like 8, only 5 of which I actually have in my system. I used to run them on a fan controller till ive had my 3rd fan controller fail on me, so decided to just run a voltage limiting adapter to just run straight to my NZXT Fan Hub.


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## fullinfusion (Mar 2, 2014)

Nice! I just use the built in fan controller in mt Corsair 650D and It works just amazing!

I wish Corsair made a fan like Noctua, a 140MM but mounts to 120MM holes in the rear of the case. i have the 140/120mm Noctua pulling air from the back of the case inside it.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Mar 2, 2014)

fullinfusion said:


> Nice! I just use the built in fan controller in mt Corsair 650D and It works just amazing!
> 
> I wish Corsair made a fan like Noctua, a 140MM but mounts to 120MM holes in the rear of the case. i have the 140/120mm Noctua pulling air from the back of the case inside it.



I wish Corsair made a static pressure optimized 140 all together. I do plan to get 3 Phantek 140mm fans (white ones) to replace the stock 140mm fans that came with my 750D.


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