# Why the new EFI is so much better than the 25 year old BIOS



## qubit (Jan 2, 2010)

> In the end, the BIOS is still here and still does what it has been doing for the last 25 years: making sure your operating system can boot. It was never designed for today’s massive diversity of hardware. It’s still stuck with 16-bit interfaces and software interrupts, interrupt routing and maximum precision timers, limited ROM execution space (1 MB) and image size, a limited number of initializeable devices (which is critical in the server space), proprietary extensions, and missing modularity—just to name a few issues.



Sounds like EFI can't come too soon. I had no idea the BIOS had so many limitations.

Tom's Hardware


----------



## Phxprovost (Jan 2, 2010)

Will be interesting to see what it can bring to the table thought honestly i don't see the need to change things...but if its beneficial bring it on   On a side note if this is ever adopted.....whats going to happen to companies like AMI and Phoenix?


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jan 2, 2010)

I've run into to not enough ROM issues on my server in using the latest BIOS and my RAID card.  Server hardware is especially borderline functional due to the limits imposed by the BIOS.  I just hope this new stuff is backwards compatible in terms of capabilities.  I also hope it has a unified and secure means to be upgraded.


----------



## qubit (Jan 2, 2010)

FordGT90Concept said:


> I also hope it has a unified and secure means to be upgraded.



Do you mean secure as in TPM style secure?


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jan 2, 2010)

Hell no!  I mean non-execute bit, secure memory blocks (read-only), and other technologies that dictate anything loaded on top of the BIOS platform cannot directly modify it--only read from it.  It therefore prevents viruses or any software from doing permanent damage to the machine.

TPM is an Infineon technology.  It is basically a money laundering scheme like HDCP and DPCP.  Worst.  "Technologies."  Ever.  They help the corporations control how you use your electronics.  They, in no way, help the consumer.  Where the law should prevent such practices, the law (certain members of Congress) is actually trying to see this practices implemented.  It is disgusting, appalling, and by every stretch of the word, offensive.


----------



## DirectorC (Jan 2, 2010)

Phxprovost said:


> i don't see the need to change things



What an odd statement.


----------



## Phxprovost (Jan 2, 2010)

DirectorC said:


> What an odd statement.


 ohh come on, your trying to twist what i said.  I was simply stating i have yet to personally experience the supposed short comings of the BIOS so im in no rush to try to find something to replace it


----------



## InnocentCriminal (Jan 2, 2010)

According to that article Foxconn aren't having any of it...



			
				Foxconn said:
			
		

> Currently, our boards do not use the Unified Extensible Firmware Interace feature and we don’t have products under development utilizing this type of BIOS.



... >.<

I like the idea of having access to the internet from within my 'BIOS' - features such as being able to troubleshoot when your OS goes bad, or for when you don't want to boot all the way into your OS. Being able to download another users (with the same components as yours) OC profile would be pretty handy for those that are having issues hitting a speed someone else has.

Still - "If it isn't broken, don't fix it." 

I've very keen to see EFI implemented in upcoming motherboards, even if it does turn out to be a novelty.


----------



## DaedalusHelios (Jan 2, 2010)

EFI trashes legacy support. Thats why I don't like Apple's lack of support in general.


----------



## InnocentCriminal (Jan 2, 2010)

DaedalusHelios said:


> EFI trashes legacy support.



For me that isn't a problem.


----------



## Kursah (Jan 2, 2010)

This is kind of interesting, might give it a go on my P5Q Deluxe after I read more of what it's about.


----------



## hat (Jan 2, 2010)

As long as I can still overclock with it I'm good...


----------



## DaedalusHelios (Jan 2, 2010)

hat said:


> As long as I can still overclock with it I'm good...



Current EFI doesn't allow it, short of clock generating software. If you ran EFI-X you could but those are expensive hardware hacks to use PC hardware on OSX and has very limited hardware support.


----------



## Deleted member 3 (Jan 2, 2010)

FordGT90Concept said:


> I've run into to not enough ROM issues on my server in using the latest BIOS and my RAID card.  Server hardware is especially borderline functional due to the limits imposed by the BIOS.  I just hope this new stuff is backwards compatible in terms of capabilities.  I also hope it has a unified and secure means to be upgraded.



What kind of limits? I can't really think of any apart from the capability to boot from GPT disks, which usually isn't needed.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 2, 2010)

EFI is supported in vista SP1 and onwards, so we're all heading there sooner or later.


Its all down to how long it takes mobo manufacturers to release a board that uses it for the enthusiast community.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jan 2, 2010)

DanTheBanjoman said:


> What kind of limits? I can't really think of any apart from the capability to boot from GPT disks, which usually isn't needed.


I was booting from the RAID card and also had the itegrated RAID enabled.  The card BIOS pretty much filled all the remaining memory allocated by the motherboard BIOS.  The new BIOS was (I think) 4 KiB larger which prevented the card BIOS from being loaded.


----------



## Deleted member 3 (Jan 2, 2010)

That sounds more like a bug/bad design than some limit that applies to the design of whatever standards a BIOS follows.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 2, 2010)

UEFI = will be awesome. but not yet.


i've heard it can have a mini OS and store drivers in there as well, so you do a "BIOS" (UEFI?) flash to update it, and you'll never need to worry about "F6" floppy drivers for RAID ever again

want to repartition a HDD, or resize partitions? no worries, your EUFI has that built in!


its got great possibilities, once they get their asses in gear.


edit: hell, if someone went totally utterly hardcore, they could make the UEFI the main OS, and run virtual machines out of it for your other OS's.
many cool, yet pointless things await!


----------



## Fourstaff (Jan 2, 2010)

Mussels said:


> many cool, yet pointless things await!


----------



## qubit (Jan 2, 2010)

Mussels said:


> UEFI = will be awesome. but not yet.
> 
> 
> i've heard it can have a mini OS and store drivers in there as well, so you do a "BIOS" (UEFI?) flash to update it, and you'll never need to worry about "F6" floppy drivers for RAID ever again
> ...



Making a BIOS the whole OS is not a new idea. All the 8-bit computers of the eighties had this and even the grown-up 32-bit Acorn Archimedes released in 1987 did it this way.

Ultimately, removing the current BIOS restrictions and adding in certain flexibilities will probably provide the best balance.


----------



## Disparia (Jan 2, 2010)

*yawn* When manufacturers actually get around to doing something about it, let me know. Otherwise it's the same discussion every couple years when someone brings up EFI


----------



## Mussels (Jan 2, 2010)

Jizzler said:


> *yawn* When manufacturers actually get around to doing something about it, let me know. Otherwise it's the same discussion every couple years when someone brings up EFI



but this is _*U*_EFI - now with 33.3% more letters than ever before!


----------



## mikek75 (Jan 2, 2010)

MSI released a UEFI (or was it EFI) bios for my P45 Platinum. I gave it a go but it was crap so I went back to the traditional one, LOL


----------



## Disparia (Jan 2, 2010)

Mussels said:


> but this is _*U*_EFI - now with 33.3% more letters than ever before!



Heh, so it does. By the time any one takes notice we'll be up to UEFI-X Pro with Facebook support so that your system can update it's status and give out it's IP for causal encounters with other systems. Unfortunately...



mikek75 said:


> MSI released a UEFI (or was it EFI) bios for my P45 Platinum. I gave it a go but it was crap so I went back to the traditional one, LOL



... that feature and EFI as a whole still won't be implemented very well on devices other than Macs if the current trend continues  Oh well, I'm not really losing sleep over it. Just wish that if they're going to get it done - get it done! The possibilities go well beyond what the Tom's article mentions.


----------



## DirectorC (Jan 2, 2010)

I'm still not 100% sure I grasp the concept of EFI.  I have been playing with PCs for 16 years, taught myself BASIC and HTML in middle school, taught myself C/C++ in high school, played with the Linux kernel source dode at 16 and built my own custom Linux install, recently got my A+, and have no idea what this EFI exactly is.  It's like the EFI does nothing but read data stored by the operating system to get all its configuration?  But then the computer needs to have an operating system installed or an OS disk somewhere with basic BIOS-like functions so it can boot?  Trying to wrap my head around this.


----------



## qubit (Jan 2, 2010)

DirectorC said:


> I'm still not 100% sure I grasp the concept of EFI.  I have been playing with PCs for 16 years, taught myself BASIC and HTML in middle school, taught myself C/C++ in high school, played with the Linux kernel source dode at 16 and built my own custom Linux install, recently got my A+, and have no idea what this EFI exactly is.  It's like the EFI does nothing but read data stored by the operating system to get all its configuration?  But then the computer needs to have an operating system installed or an OS disk somewhere with basic BIOS-like functions so it can boot?  Trying to wrap my head around this.



The working group's website should clear up the confusion for you:

http://www.uefi.org/about/


----------



## lemonadesoda (Jan 2, 2010)

Is this some kind of football (soccer) thing?


----------



## Mussels (Jan 3, 2010)

well that ones good point: BIOS requires a 32 bit CPU with 16 bit support.


UEFI is native 64 bit.


Makes sense to me, that they'll move to UEFI once x86 dies off (give it til next gen windows )


----------



## DaedalusHelios (Jan 3, 2010)

I would prefer a hybrid system so legacy support isn't dropped. That would satisfy us all.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 3, 2010)

DaedalusHelios said:


> I would prefer a hybrid system so legacy support isn't dropped. That would satisfy us all.



thats not hard. look at the boards with dual BIOS on them - have a jumper to change from UEFI to BIOS


although i admit this will cause problems for us techies

"have you updated your UEFI lately?"

"my what? why would i update a waffle?"


----------



## zithe (Jan 3, 2010)

I think the BIOS should be kept _because_ it is so basic. If it becomes more complex, there's more to mess up and you could probably brick your board very easily. Someone could always come up with some sort of virus to mess up your BIOS if you're using it to browse the internet lol.

Elementary fears, maybe. Still something to think of.


----------

