# Using car coolant to cool CPU ?!



## 27MaD (May 16, 2019)

So today a guy asked me if it's ok to use car coolent in his watercooled system instead of using regular water so he can achieve better temps , i was shocked when i first heard the question , and then i thought that this can actually work , what do you guys think ?


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## Mr.Scott (May 16, 2019)

You won't get better temps on ambient water.
Only reason to use antifreeze in your loop is as a biocide or galvanic corrosion inhibitor, unless you plan on sub zero coolant.


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## danbert2000 (May 16, 2019)

I doubt you'll get better temps. Car coolant is probably tuned for much higher temperature differentials than a processor could reach. And I would be worried about corrosion or degradation of the loop somehow with a coolant not designed for a computer liquid cooler.


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## newtekie1 (May 16, 2019)

It isn't an issue, and actually was pretty common back before the fancy fluids came out. 

It will definitely help with corrosion too, especially in a mixed metal loop. Car coolant systems are almost always mixed metal, so the anti-freeze has a ton of corrosion inhibitors.


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## jsfitz54 (May 16, 2019)

newtekie1 said:


> It isn't an issue, and actually was pretty common back before the fancy fluids came out.
> 
> It will definitely help with corrosion too, especially in a mixed metal loop. Car coolant systems are almost always mixed metal, so the anti-freeze has a ton of corrosion inhibitors.



I would say the pink variety over the green, any thoughts?


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## Mr.Scott (May 16, 2019)

Makes no difference.


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## jsfitz54 (May 16, 2019)

Mr.Scott said:


> Makes no difference.



So you would not use Dex-Cool.  That would be my first choice.


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## Caring1 (May 16, 2019)

jsfitz54 said:


> I would say the pink variety over the green, any thoughts?


If overclocking and or using a chiller, pink has the longer lifespan and greater temperature range.


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## Mr.Scott (May 17, 2019)

If you're using a chiller and are serious about it, you use windshield washer juice. It has less viscosity cold than antifreeze does and will not slush up to -30 or so.



jsfitz54 said:


> So you would not use Dex-Cool.  That would be my first choice.


I didn't say that. I said it makes no difference what brand you use. They all do the same thing.


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## jsfitz54 (May 17, 2019)

Mr.Scott said:


> If you're using a chiller and are serious about it, you use windshield washer juice. It has less viscosity cold than antifreeze does and will not slush up to -30 or so.



That' s due to the alcohol.  That can't be good long term?


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## Mr.Scott (May 17, 2019)

Been using it in my chillers for a decade or more. No issues ever.
It evaporates a little, just keep it topped up.


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## newtekie1 (May 17, 2019)

jsfitz54 said:


> So you would not use Dex-Cool.  That would be my first choice.



No Dex-Cool, I wouldn't even run that crap in my car!  It eats rubber seals.  Classic green is what I always use or the yellow stuff.


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## freeagent (May 17, 2019)

That's a good idea, with the winter washer fluid. Where I am, we have stuff rated for -40c, but I think its ok when its colder. My dexcool sounds like its running through a Slurpee machine when its that cold lol. Its not nice.


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## Caring1 (May 17, 2019)

Just use Vodka, it won't freeze and you can regularly drain the system with a straw


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## moproblems99 (May 17, 2019)

Anything that doesn't have plasticizer in it.


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## Zareek (May 17, 2019)

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't straight water conduct and absorb more heat? If so, the anti-corrosive benefits of anti-freeze are a good thing but I seriously doubt he will see better cooling performance.


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## BarbaricSoul (May 17, 2019)

Zareek said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't straight water conduct and absorb more heat?



That's why you don't use pure antifreeze. You always dilute it with water for the temperatures it is to be used in.


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## Outback Bronze (May 17, 2019)

Been using car coolant for 10+ years. No issues here and extremely happy with it.


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## Ferrum Master (May 17, 2019)

Distilled water + ethylene glycol car coolant is my choice. Like 10:1 or even more. Using mixture like that for years. No problems ever.


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## Outback Bronze (May 17, 2019)

Ferrum Master said:


> Distilled water + ethylene glycol car coolant is my choice. Like 10:1 or even more. Using mixture like that for years. No problems ever.



The car coolant I use is very similar, but I think its more 50/50 mix straight out of the bottle.


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## lsevald (May 17, 2019)

I bought a few PA series Thermochill radiators 12 years ago, and I also received 2 small  (2 oz?) bottles of something with this description on it:

Valvoline Racing
Super Coolant
Zerex

On the back label:
Contains: Water, Ethylen Glycol, Potassium Hydroxide, 4-Hydroxybenzoic Acid, 2-Ethylhexaonic Acid, Corrosion Inhibitors, Silicone Silicate, Defoamers and Dyes

Instructions: Dilute with distilled water at a ratio of 5% coolant to 95% water

And I have used it with great success all these years, but I'm all out now and looking to buy more. I can't find this exact product in my country, but is it just plain anti freeze? Even the nickel plating on many EK blocks have survived over the years. Oh and it's red/pink


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## Ferrum Master (May 17, 2019)

I have to mention that some car coolants now does have stupid additives to make it not sweet (in some countries like UK) so children and and animals do not drink it, when leaked etc... 

I don't know how that suits with our scenario.


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## Caring1 (May 17, 2019)

lsevald said:


> I bought a few PA series Thermochill radiators 12 years ago, and I also received 2 small  (2 oz?) bottles of something with this description on it:
> 
> Valvoline Racing
> Super Coolant
> ...


Sounds like it is, Valvoline is an Automotive brand.


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## dorsetknob (May 17, 2019)

Ferrum Master said:


> car coolants now does have stupid additives to make it not sweet (in some countries like UK) so children and and animals do not drink it, when leaked etc...


 here is one that remembers the Wine Scandal (from Austria ) years ago.


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## Ferrum Master (May 17, 2019)

I've considered actually getting some Benzotriazole (BTA). It is recommended for protecting copper.


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## lsevald (May 17, 2019)

Caring1 said:


> Sounds like it is, Valvoline is an Automotive brand.



Yes, I agree it looks like some variant of anti-freeze (contains glycol). But there are some products that claim to alter the surface tension of the coolant, and possibly other properties. I'm just not sure what this is.

Like this


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## Deleted member 24505 (May 17, 2019)

Caring1 said:


> Sounds like it is, Valvoline is an Automotive brand.



It is, a very good one. 
https://www.valvoline.com/


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## mstenholm (May 17, 2019)

Caring1 said:


> Just use Vodka, it won't freeze and you can regularly drain the system with a straw


KSA and vodka


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## Bruno_oc (May 17, 2019)

I use Distiled water + ethylene Glycol 1:1 for more than 6 years and no issues. Basically, the mix also helps the pump as it is a little greasy.

@Mr.Scott I am curious about the chiller. I have one that can do -46C on the HX and I am using Glycol+ethanol. I thought of using windshield liquid, but i haven't tried. How cold your liquid goes?


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## storm-chaser (May 17, 2019)

I wonder if water wetter would help at all with temps? 

Using it in my honda VFR 800 brought peak coolant temps down from 225*F to 214*F



> *WaterWetter* is a unique wetting agent for cooling systems which reduces coolant temperatures by as much as 30 degrees Farenheit . This liquid product can be used to provide rust and corrosion protection in plain *water* for racing engines, which provides much better heat transfer properties than glycol-based antifreeze.


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## kid41212003 (May 17, 2019)

I thought it would eat away your loops? Are we certain there's no drawback? Why's nobody recommending car coolant afaik?


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## sneekypeet (May 17, 2019)

storm-chaser said:


> I wonder if water wetter would help at all with temps?
> 
> Using it in my honda VFR 800 brought peak coolant temps down from 225*F to 214*F



I used to use it after getting a bottle from an old member Random Murderer. I did end up trying distilled vs. distilled with water wetter, and it made no changes in my temps. IIRC it is for race car applications where you are at the max temp, near boil over, where it can show its effects.


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## John Naylor (May 17, 2019)

1.  It's not as good thermally as PC Build oriented coolants.

2.  It decreases flow rate and cooling efficiency

3.  If there's anything acrylic or plastic on the loop, it may dissolve the adhesive ... was a rash of bay reservoir failures when some PC coolants included it in their mix some 6 - 8 years ago.  Also some brands cause corrosion of aluminum .... but putting aluminum oin a loop is a bad decision in the 1st place.

4.  The colored coolants have to be carefuly stored, tho some varieties are safe, leaking antifreeze from a neighbors car leaking intoa puddle in our driveway and killed our dog when he drrank from it.  It killed people too, especially kids who think it's a Kool-Aid of fruit drink.






						Antifreeze Poisoning in Humans – Signs and Symptoms | Healthhype.com
					






					www.healthhype.com
				




5.  Good but somewhat outdated info here:






						PC Water Coolant Chemistry - Part II - Overclockers
					

Welcome back to the second part of our article on PC water coolant chemistry! If you have not already done so, please check out Part I for detailed information on some of water's unique physical, thermal and chemical properties and the various types of water available for use in PC water-cooling...




					www.overclockers.com


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## newtekie1 (May 17, 2019)

John Naylor said:


> 3. The colored coolants have to be carefuly stored, tho some varieties are safe, leaking antifreeze from a neighbors car leaking intoa puddle and killed our dog when he dfrank from it. It killed people too, especially kids who think it's a Kool-Aid of fruit drink.




This has largely been eliminated thanks to the manufacturers adding bitter flavoring to antifreeze.  It used to taste sweet, but now it tastes nasty.  I actually gag if I get any bit in my mouth.  You'd have to be pretty desperate to drink it these days.


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## storm-chaser (May 17, 2019)

newtekie1 said:


> This has largely been eliminated thanks to the manufacturers adding bitter flavoring to antifreeze.  It used to taste sweet, but now it tastes nasty.  I actually gag if I get any bit in my mouth.  You'd have to be pretty desperate to drink it these days.


The older non flavored antifreeze has also been used in intentional poisonings, aka murder. That has largely been eliminated due to the favoring that is now required.


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## lsevald (May 17, 2019)

I have tried Water wetter many years ago. I used it mixed with distilled water (nothing else), but got some weird growth that gunked up the water blocks. I wouldn't use it alone, but maybe it would work if mixed together with anti freeze? like 0.01°C


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## John Naylor (May 17, 2019)

newtekie1 said:


> This has largely been eliminated thanks to the manufacturers adding bitter flavoring to antifreeze.  It used to taste sweet, but now it tastes nasty.  I actually gag if I get any bit in my mouth.  You'd have to be pretty desperate to drink it these days.



We had to put one of our dogs down just 2 years ago because of this.  When we broke into this millenium, there were about 5,000 cases a year of poisoning in humans, but you still see new articles being written about it.  Most of this drop* is due to the switch to propylene glycol *which is non toxic; it's this  propylene glycol  type that produces the bitter taste. Ethylene Glycol products remain a problem.


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## 27MaD (May 17, 2019)

mstenholm said:


> KSA and vodka


Well that's what i thought too but just lets not talk about this here.


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## thebluebumblebee (May 17, 2019)

lsevald said:


> Valvoline Racing
> Super Coolant
> Zerex


Appears to me that they're simply telling you that the content of the bottle is Zerex, a brand of anti-freeze owned by Valvoline.

Sounds like this stuff: https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/pro-v-racing/super-coolant-additive


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## lsevald (May 17, 2019)

thebluebumblebee said:


> Appears to me that they're simply telling you that the content of the bottle is Zerex, a brand of anti-freeze owned by Valvoline.
> 
> Sounds like this stuff: https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/pro-v-racing/super-coolant-additive



Yes, that looks similar. Problem is I cannot find it here in my country. What do I use to replace it?

I forgot to mention, last autumn I replaced my 780ti with a 1080ti. New water block, so I had to redo my loop. However, the coolant (with Valvoline Super Coolant) that had ran since the release of the 780ti (2013?), looked fine, so I did not replace it. I just ran it through a coffee filter and topped it up with a little distilled water. The only downsides I can think of is the weird smell that goes away after a few days, and that it tends to discolor clear tubing after extended use.


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## thebluebumblebee (May 17, 2019)

lsevald said:


> What do I use to replace it?


If you want to use an "official" PC watercooling product, just about all of the major WC'ing brands have an additive.  If you want to find a similar product from the automotive world, just search for "racing coolant" or "racing coolant additive".


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## Ferrum Master (May 17, 2019)

sneekypeet said:


> I used to use it after getting a bottle from an old member Random Murderer. I did end up trying distilled vs. distilled with water wetter, and it made no changes in my temps. IIRC it is for race car applications where you are at the max temp, near boil over, where it can show its effects.



The main question... what kind of pressure we have in our loops versus a motorcycle, that greatly influences boiling point temperatures?

I have a feeling that wetter stuff is distilled water with Benzotriazole or similar.



John Naylor said:


> 1.  It's not as good thermally as PC Build oriented coolants.
> 
> 2.  It decreases flow rate and cooling efficiency



BS mate... PURE BS. I am sorry for being rude... but really.


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## newtekie1 (May 17, 2019)

John Naylor said:


> We had to put one of our dogs down just 2 years ago because of this.  When we broke into this millenium, there were about 5,000 cases a year of poisoning in humans, but you still see new articles being written about it.  Most of this drop* is due to the switch to propylene glycol *which is non toxic; it's this  propylene glycol type that produces the bitter taste. Ethylene Glycol products remain a problem.



My wife is a RVT, it has only been in the past few years that they've added the bittering agent.  But it still happens, especially because people keep old used stuff around and even "new" stuff sitting on the shelf in their garage, and the stuff in most cars is still the old stuff.

But I can tell you, after getting some in my mouth, there is no way anything is drinking the new stuff with the bittering agent in it unless they are super desperate for water.


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## sneekypeet (May 17, 2019)

Ferrum Master said:


> I have a feeling that wetter stuff is distilled water with Benzotriazole or similar.



It was years ago I used it, and from what I recall there isn't much on the bottle for contents. I don't recall the site saying much either as the formula is likely a secret to keep others from putting them out of the game.


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## Totally (May 17, 2019)

Using Super Coolant (blue antifreeze) temps aren't any different. Just has been maintenance freeze for a year+. My biggest worry was that it would eat at the tubing but after some research found out the. Fluid is 100% inert, and I don't any discoloration or anything of the sort to suggest otherwise.



Ferrum Master said:


> BS mate... PURE BS. I am sorry for being rude... but really.



That was too funny that comment almost brought me to tears.



John Naylor said:


> 3. If there's anything acrylic or plastic on the loop, it may dissolve the adhesive ... was a rash of bay reservoir failures when some PC coolants included it in their mix some 6 - 8 years ago. Also some brands cause corrosion of aluminum .... but putting aluminum oin a loop is a bad decision in the 1st place.



This is BS too.


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## Gasaraki (May 17, 2019)

Water is the best coolant.


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## Totally (May 17, 2019)

Gasaraki said:


> Water is the best coolant.



If you hate periodically draining, refilling, de-aerating your loop, it's not.


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## Mr.Scott (May 17, 2019)

Bruno_oc said:


> @Mr.Scott I am curious about the chiller. I have one that can do -46C on the HX and I am using Glycol+ethanol. I thought of using windshield liquid, but i haven't tried. How cold your liquid goes?


Not as cold as yours. I can go -35c static. A big multi cored CPU with hefty OC will stay in the single digits under load most of the time.

On Water wetter or any similar product:
It's snake oil. 
All that stuff has been done for more than a decade. There is no new revelation.


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## Bones (May 17, 2019)

Totally said:


> If you hate periodically draining, refilling, de-aerating your loop, it's not.



Water from a thermal transfer point of view is the best coolant overall, in vehicles for example while antifreeze does the job of keeping things from freezing up it does reduce the thermal efficiency of the coolant a little.
If using it in a system it's really for anti-corrosion purposes and even then you have to us the right kind with the right ratio of it to water. 

What I quoted is correct, water alone will make for more maintenance but the tradeoff is more efficient thermal transfer of heat through the coolant. 

It's really up to the individual how they want to set it up and to deal with any possible corrosion or biological issues based on how their setup is built. I've been running an outdoor based cooling tower thats more or less "Open" for awhile now and haven't had any real issues (Yet).
It does help the tower loses water to an extent and I'm always having to top it off and in wintertime I normally use Dexcool to keep it from freezing, in caseanyone is wondering that's why in pics of my setup the tubing for my setup has an orange tint to it. The old setup was a simple open loop and it was inside the shack and I never had any issues with it either except for what was due to sheer age, that's the reason I finally made the tower and it's been going for close to two years now and gives really good thermal capacity.


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## phanbuey (May 17, 2019)

i like not maintaining my loop... but:






						Liquid Cooling - The Best Heat Transfer Fluids for Liquid Cooling Application Note - Lytron Inc
					

Review Lytron's Application Note - The Best Heat Transfer Fluids for Liquid Cooling



					www.lytron.com
				




"However, automotive glycol should not be used in a cooling system or heat exchanger because it contains silicate-based rust inhibitors. These inhibitors can gel and foul, coating heat exchanger surfaces and reducing their efficiency. Silicates have also been shown to significantly reduce the lifespan of pump seals. While the wrong inhibitors can cause significant problems, the right inhibitors can prevent corrosion and significantly prolong the life of a liquid cooling loop. Inhibited glycols can be purchased from companies such as Dynalene, Houghton Chemical, or the Dow Chemical Company and are highly recommended over non-inhibited glycols."

"As the concentration of glycol in the solution increases, the thermal performance of the heat transfer fluid decreases. Therefore, it is best to use the lowest possible concentration of inhibited glycol necessary to meet your corrosion and freeze protection needs."


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## kid41212003 (May 17, 2019)

Seems like the safest bet is to use distilled water + additive (to kill growth). Car coolants sound like a hassle.


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## Gasaraki (May 20, 2019)

Water is the best coolent


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## RichF (Jul 14, 2019)

1) Frequent water changes accelerate some type of corrosion, from what I've read. So, it seems that it is a common myth that people believe than "cleaner" (fresher) distilled water will keep corrosion in check. Obviously, certain corrosion sources, like algal growth, will be inhibited by frequent water changes but that's not the only source — leading us to:

2) Dissolved oxygen causes corrosion. Water systems with very low dissolved oxygen can last much longer.

3) Distilled water alone will cause corrosion.

4) Silver coils need chlorine in the water to be effective.



			
				article said:
			
		

> Copper and Silver Ionization
> 
> Ionization indicates the electrolytic generation of copper and silver ions in cooling tower water. If properly managed, copper and silver ion concentrations at 20 to 30 µg/L and 10 to 15 µg/L,respectively, can be effective to kill bacteria in the systems. The ions assist in the control of bacterial populations in the presence of a free chlorine residual of at least 0.2 mg/kg. It should be noted that in hard water systems, silver ion concentrations is difficult to maintain due to build-up of scale on the electrodes, and the high concentration of dissolved solids precipitating the silver ions out of solution. For both hard and soft water, the ionization process is pH sensitive and it is difficult to maintain silver ion concentrations above pH 7.6. It is not recommended to adopt ionization in systems having steel or aluminum heat exchanger since deposition of the copper ion and subsequent galvanic corrosion is significant.



link

5) Glycol has to be above 20% concentration or it will be degraded by biological activity.



			
				Daryl Hartwick said:
			
		

> In the case of glycol loops, verifying that the glycol concentration is more than 20% is critical. At levels less than this (for chilled and out of service hot loops), rapid biological degradation of either ethylene or propylene glycol to an assortment of organic acids and intermediate products, will take place.



Source: Water Treatment In Closed Systems — ASHRAE Journal. Darrell Hartwick is the technical marketing manager with Eclipse Chemical Company in Baie D’Urfé, Quebec.

6) Even inhibited propylene glycol removes more metal from the copper surface than distilled water. See attachment 1.

7) Benzotriazole (BTA), tolyltriazole, and napthotriazole are effective corrosion inhibitors for copper. Only BTA is readily soluble in room temperature distilled water.

information about napthotriazole, which may be the strongest inhibitor:

link 1
link 2



			
				IBM said:
			
		

> Benzotriazole (BTA) is mixed with the deionized (DI) water to a concentration of 1000 parts per million by weight.



8) Molybdate should be added for loops with aluminum and/or steel in them. I don't know how much of a threat steel jet plates pose without molybdate.

9) A study involving the preservation of copper artifacts said BTA must be combined with MTA for the best corrosion prevention.

10) Potassium iodide can enhanced BTA's anti-corrosive action but it must be used in a precise ratio and isn't worth the trouble. Some used iodine in their loops to function as a biocide. It seems too difficult to control the concentration over time to make it worthwhile.



			
				study said:
			
		

> The mixture of 0.1M BTA with 0.01M KI in deionised water increased the efficiency of BTA, whilst in other cases the mixture accelerated corrosion. When a higher concentration of BTA was used, the presence of KI did not cause any significant effect in the process.



11) Silicates are used in some auto antifreezes but might be abrasive and cause sludging. I doubt they're needed in our loops, or desirable.

12) Be careful with OAT/HOAT auto antifreezes if they have 2-EHA, which can rots seals.

13) 





			
				article said:
			
		

> Metal oxides are generally not very good conductors, in fact, most are dielectrics and hence non-conductors.



14) Triazole inhibitors inhibit the action of silver, making silver of questionable use when combined with them. The silver's biocidal action would be potentially nullified and the azole would be bound to the silver, nullifying it, too. This seems to be why EK, for instance, says it's super-important to rinse one's loop very thoroughly if one has used some other coolant and why silver coils are bad news.

15) 





			
				forum post said:
			
		

> A conservator's study found that the only solution that stopped corrosion of their copper samples was a combination of benzotriazole (.1M) and AMT (.01M) in ethanol. The water-based version had some corrosion, although that combination was better than BTA alone. They didn't test tolyltriazole nor napthotriazole.



AMT is 2-amino-5-mercapto-1,3,4-thiadiazole

One possible reason for AMT's usefulness in that study is that it's better at removing chloride than BTA. The artifacts contaminated with chloride would have reduced BTA's effectiveness, thus making the addition of AMT helpful. I don't think chloride is going to be an issue in our loops unless people try to use chlorine with silver. It seems clear that the silver coil is a bad idea.

AMT and chloride: link



			
				article said:
			
		

> Most metals, including copper and aluminum, form thin metal oxide film layers when exposed to air for even a brief time -- this is what makes a new penny turn dull after a few days or weeks. These oxide layers are so thin however that for all practical purposes they do not interfere with the conductivity across such layers.



So, you don't want an oxide (corrosion) layer on your block's fins, or anywhere else that's exposed to the fluid. This is where having a thin layer of anti-corrosive, like BTA, comes in. It prevents the oxide layer from forming. However, some oxide layer formation may be unavoidable unless the parts were prepared in an oxygen-free environment and dipped in triazole. Dipping in triazole is apparently a fairly common practice but the protective layer can be worn away if the fluid used by the buyer isn't correct. It should have triazole in it to keep the protective layer renewed.

16) Ethylene glycol would be the better choice, versus propylene, for heat transfer and biocidal action — if not for its toxity. It has a vapor pressure. It should slowly evaporate as far as I know. I have read that even "closed" loops suffer from fluid evaporation so some of the chemicals added to water in coolants may be an inhalation issue. This doesn't merely apply to ethylene glycol. As for glycol, one must ask oneself if anti-freezing is a quality that is important for a room temperature loop.

17) How much is the efficiency of premade PC watercooling coolants negatively impacted by the desire for aesthetic qualities, like dye and UV "reactivity"? Is there a coolant on the market that maximizes both thermal transfer and longevity, while ignoring aesthetics? For instance, opaque coolants can include titanium and/or zinc oxides. These serve no positive function for thermal transfer. Instead, they do the opposite, by replacing water volume.

18) This looks like a typical formulation that will offer good reliability for non-aluminum loops:



			
				Accepta said:
			
		

> Potassium hydroxide, 5–15%
> Sodium Molybdate, 5–15%
> Benzotriazole, <5%
> Borax 5–25%
> ...



Borax is very abrasive, though, so it should always be fully-dissolved in water. The hydroxide and borax are used to elevate/buffer the pH. At low pH, pitting is a problem. At too-high a pH, scaling is a problem.

Note the second attachment which compares corrosion rates between water, uninhibited glycols, and inhibited glycols. Not also how the first one says that glycol is apparently only needed when there is the need for its  anti-freeze function.


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## Eskimonster (Jul 14, 2019)

Xtremely god idea. i thought bout it too when i begun with watercooling.
I want to use it in my nxt system.


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## Grog6 (Jul 14, 2019)

I've done a bunch of various cooling loops, just not on a computer.
My computer units are sealed, until they fail, then I'll adapt them. 

Straight water cools the best.
It's also the most corrosive.

Putting pure lab-grade deionized water into a Clean aluminum system will evolve H2 gas, and eat the aluminum, both overpressurizing the system until  it blows, and eating the aluminum, leaving grey powder all thru the system.
I know a guy that destroyed a freshly built Cobra 4.6l car doing just that.
Don't do that, lol.

10% antifreze in with distilled water from the grocery store is good; the AF adds chemicals to keep the various metals from reacting, and will lube any moving parts.
Make sure no salt is added to the water, thus don't use drinkable water, it's full of salt and minerals.

100% AF is not good; glycol is a relatively poor heat conductor to water, almost 3x less efficient.

All antifreezes have some disadvantages:
Ethelene glycol is the Green fluid, it's toxic. 
Proplyene Glycol is what's in the computer type fluids, and for swimming pool winterizer kits. It's probably the best alternative.
Methanol/water in a 50/50 ratio is what's in the windshield washer fluid, It's both toxic, and it eats rubber.

More antifreze==less cooling ability, so 10% is what I use in my cars. 
I just change it every year, but a jug lasts a long time.


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## moproblems99 (Jul 14, 2019)

Grog6 said:


> More antifreze==less cooling ability, so 10% is what I use in my cars.



It is also what keeps it from freezing and splitting heater cores and radiators in places like TN.


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## Grog6 (Jul 14, 2019)

Thanks to global warming, it rarely gets that cold here anymore.


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## Ferrum Master (Jul 14, 2019)

Grog6 said:


> Methanol/water in a 50/50 ratio is what's in the windshield washer fluid, It's both toxic, and it eats rubber.



In the EU it is banned, as vapor is also toxic. Isopropyl is used more also plain old ethanol. Any windshield fluid eats rubber, corrodes metal and eats paint, that's actually another story and problem.


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## Dinnercore (Jul 14, 2019)

I use car coolant antifreeze + distilled water in a roughly 20% / 80% solution. I do not maintain my loop for science, I want to see how long I can leave it as is without seeing degrading cooling performance.

The reason I decided to use this is, that its cheap, highly available and tested as working for ages now. The early pioneers in watercooling used this 20 years ago as seen in some very old german forum posts and some have ran this fluid mix 5-10 years untouched without an issue. It´s the blue color stuff, brand called Glysantin here in germany.

Thing is, you really need a certain level of the stuff in your mix, ~20% like mentioned above. I used only 5-10% in a mixture for a test-bench loop and left it sitting in bright sunlight behind a window for 2 months without the loop running and some small patches of mold started growing inside the tubes. Yes I flushed everything beforehand.


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## dirtyferret (Jul 14, 2019)

Why not just hook up one of those mobile AC units to pump cold air into your case?


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## Grog6 (Jul 14, 2019)

Ferrum Master said:


> In the EU it is banned, as vapor is also toxic. Isopropyl is used more also plain old ethanol. Any windshield fluid eats rubber, corrodes metal and eats paint, that's actually another story and problem.



That Sux! 

What do people use for Meth injection to cool Blown engines?  (Iso doesn't burn the same)
That's the biggest use for it here, lol.



			https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sno-201blk?seid=srese1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItrCFuvq04wIVwp-zCh1gzQRBEAQYASABEgLucfD_BwE
		


(I'm betting my Street car would get crushed by the police in the EU, lol. No Cats, True 2.5" dual exhaust with no mufflers, extreme cams, lowered suspension with frame stiffening and aftermarket swaybars, Brakes, etc. Heck, I wrote the EEC Tune myself.)


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## RichF (Jul 14, 2019)

RichF said:
			
		

> Note the second attachment which compares corrosion rates between water, uninhibited glycols, and inhibited glycols. Not also how the first one says that glycol is apparently only needed when there is the need for its anti-freeze function.


That statement is correct when referring to all-copper. However, the inhibited glycol is better when there are other metals involved. If that chart is accurate, if a person is running a 100% copper loop (does anyone even sell copper fittings?) then water is superior to inhibited glycol. For mixed metals, it appears that inhibited glycol is clearly superior.

The problem with that chart, though, is that it uses tap water instead of deionized/distilled. Does anyone have a chart that shows the same data, only without using tap water? Various corporations don't use glycols, by default, in their loops — IBM and Huawei, for example. Huawei uses a "V3" system and a "V5" system. The former uses water and BTA and the latter uses glycol with BTA. The "V" suggests that "V5" is superior but I don't think that's the case, in terms of anything other than perhaps V5 being chilled. That's a guess. If glycol were clearly superior and necessary at regular temperatures, then there is no reason for Huawei to offer a V3 system simultaneously.

I have read several statements from industry sources that suggest that glycol is really only needed when its anti-freeze function is required, although the aforementioned chart also indicates strongly against using water (no glycol) with uninhibited tap water. If the data in that chart is accurate, does it mean that all-copper loops can get by with tap water and a biocide alone?


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## INSTG8R (Jul 14, 2019)

Back when Asetek made and sold their own water cooling gear they shipped it with Redline Water Wetter in a little syringe https://www.redlineoil.com/waterwetter I still use the syringe for “topping up”


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## Dinnercore (Jul 14, 2019)

RichF said:


> Note the second attachment which compares corrosion rates between water, uninhibited glycols, and inhibited glycols. Not also how the first one says that glycol is apparently only needed when there is the need for its anti-freeze function.


Interesting data, but what even is 'tap-water'? The quality and contents of tap-water is wildly different across the world.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 14, 2019)

27MaD said:


> So today a guy asked me if it's ok to use car coolent in his watercooled system instead of using regular water so he can achieve better temps , i was shocked when i first heard the question , and then i thought that this can actually work , what do you guys think ?


There's no reason you can't. Use a 30/70 Coolant/Distilled Water mix. Depending on where you live, if they have 40/60, just use that. I used to use 50/50 straight out of the bottle from the auto-parts store back in the day. Worked perfectly....


Mr.Scott said:


> You won't get better temps on ambient water.
> Only reason to use antifreeze in your loop is as a biocide or galvanic corrosion inhibitor, unless you plan on sub zero coolant.


....and these are the reasons why.


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## Grog6 (Jul 14, 2019)

Worse than not knowing what minerals are in your tap water; if you have a water softener setup, it adds salt to soften the water.

Never use tap water, if you want to know what's really in there.

Distilled water is a minimum for me.

In the US, you can get a copy of the water analysis of your tap water; but it will probably drive you to using bottled water.


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## RichF (Jul 17, 2019)

Dinnercore said:


> Interesting data, but what even is 'tap-water'? The quality and contents of tap-water is wildly different across the world.


That data shows, anyway, that unless a person is using an all-copper loop (including only copper fittings, if those even exist), the tap water used for the data isn't adequate. The reason tap water was likely used as the standard for that chart is because it's a large system, one that's too large to make distilled viable, in terms of cost.

Not that I'd recommend it, of course, but if one is to use tap water it seems clear that the addition of AMT is necessary to rid the water of chloride, which BTA isn't good at.

What the chart does strongly suggest, though, is that copper doesn't appear to be particularly vulnerable to corrosion from distilled water. That was the main idea I took from it. However, since mixing metals is all the rage in the DIY market... Also, the dissolved minerals in tap water might also help to protect the copper a bit from dissolved oxygen or contaminants provide some other benefit. It's hard to say since tap water is so variable, especially if it comes from a well.


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