# Did i buy the wrong router?



## keakar (Feb 13, 2009)

i have 2 computers running on a cable modem and my old router crapped out on me. i hooked up one computer direct until i got to buy a router and it seemed to run faster than it ever did before. well i didnt think anything of it because i figured the old router must have gotten slow over time and that was all it was. anyway i went buy whatever walmart had in the store, a router is a router is a router i thought. yes i wanted a wired router for security reasons. i tossed the old router so all i know is it had 4 ports and i dont know the speed rating.

well i bought the Linksys BEFSR41 4 Port 10/100Mbps Wired Broadband Router seen here: 

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3504719

i saw this one that says it is a 10/100/1000Mbps router 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833127060

and i wondered if that extra 1000 speed is really needed or actually used?

my computers are very slow now as if i was on a phone modem or something but only randomly at certain times but then they are up to speed the rest of the time so i dont know whats going on. now this is only while we are web browsing and stuff so its not like im steady downloading or anything like that.

i had the cable company come out and test the modem and it was fine and was told i had a really good speed yet sometimes in the afternoon and at night and often while only one computer is in use it gets very slow. this never happened before and i think its the router.

i ran speedtest.net and i got results from 3 different locations to check so here it is:

test 1    >>>         9937 kb/s download and 2545 kb/s upload at 50 miles from my test site
test 2    >>>         17104 kb/s download and 2456 kb/s upload at 300 miles from my test site 
test 3    >>>         8179 kb/s download and 2494 kb/s upload at 1850 miles from my test site 

so all my speeds look great dont they? 

but websurfing things are very slow to load and its not just the same websites where i can say ok its yahoo or something like that, its random stuff so whats the deal?


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## FordGT90Concept (Feb 13, 2009)

If you're computer NICs aren't also 10/100/1000, it will make no difference.  If they are though, two computers with a 10/100/1000 NIC could transfer files 10 times faster amongst themselves compared to 10/100.


The problem you are describing sounds more like poor packet management.


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## keakar (Feb 13, 2009)

FordGT90Concept said:


> If you're computer NICs aren't also 10/100/1000, it will make no difference.  If they are though, two computers with a 10/100/1000 NIC could transfer files 10 times faster amongst themselves compared to 10/100.
> 
> 
> The problem you are describing sounds more like poor packet management.



both computers are  at least 10/100/1000 i know mine is listed as a gigabyte NIC

so does 100Mbps = 1000kb/s and if so doesnt that mean i am maxed out at the routers peak output?

what numbers should i see with a fast connection?

also we dont network from one computer to the other so its just shared broadband.

what is packet management and how do i check it?


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## Mussels (Feb 13, 2009)

100Mb = 12.5MB/s
1000Mb = 125MB/s

Your internet is most likely under 10 megabit, so thats not it.

Any problems you're having with speed, are most likely do do with your cable modem and it not liking your router. One possible scenario is that your cable modem is already a router, and therefore both routers are conflicting and giving out IP addresses.

If you have a regular networking switch or "hub", plug it in and see if you can work without even needing a router.


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## keakar (Feb 13, 2009)

Mussels said:


> If you have a regular networking switch or "hub", plug it in and see if you can work without even needing a router.



well i have comcast and its the same modem i had for ten years with the other router without any issues so im pretty sure its just a modem.

i thought i hafd to have a router, at least thats what i was told.

what is a networking switch/hub and is there an advantage to using it over a router?


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## Mussels (Feb 13, 2009)

keakar said:


> well i have comcast and its the same modem i had for ten years with the other router without any issues so im pretty sure its just a modem.
> 
> i thought i hafd to have a router, at least thats what i was told.
> 
> what is a networking switch/hub and is there an advantage to using it over a router?



a switched hub (commonly called a hub, which is wrong) is simply multiple network ports linked together. It looks similar to a router, but with no WAN (internet) port - only local ones.

In a way you could understand it, you could get a router with 4 LAN ports, plug one into a switch and simply add more LAN ports to your network.

The difference between a switch and a router, is that a switch only passes IP addresses and data along, while a router also gives IP addresses.

If you have a direct modem, the router gives the local PC's IP addresses and shares the internet IP, to many local IP's. a switch would merely pass along existing IP's (which would require a router earlier in the setup)


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## keakar (Feb 13, 2009)

Mussels said:


> a switched hub (commonly called a hub, which is wrong) is simply multiple network ports linked together. It looks similar to a router, but with no WAN (internet) port - only local ones.
> 
> In a way you could understand it, you could get a router with 4 LAN ports, plug one into a switch and simply add more LAN ports to your network.
> 
> ...



yes, im pretty sure i have a direct modem, its a motorola SB5100 surfboard cable modem

that shows a HFC MAC ADDRESS ID # and a USB CPE MAC ADDRESS ID #

the manual i just found for it is here: http://broadband.motorola.com/consumers/products/SB5101/downloads/SB5101_UG_EN.pdf



if i need a router before the modem then i gain nothing by adding a hub right?

i thought a hub worked like a simple Y connector so it made 2 plugs share one connection.

when i installed and set up my router i used the modems IP address and it auto detected the settings to set itself up.

the modem i have has a cable wire input and a single eithernet output so whats my best option for the fastest possable broadband speeds on both computers?


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## keakar (Feb 13, 2009)

holy jeepers batman, on page 46 of the pdf manual it shows i can plug two computers directly into the modem.  (google to the rescue again)

so that means it is a router then doesnt it? 

and i suppose that also means that my fastest connection speed is by directly connecting both computers straight to the modem and return my expensive router to get my money back correct?  


this pizzes me off cuz comcast told me i needed a router to hook up more than one computer. 

please confim all this for me


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## W1zzard (Feb 13, 2009)

keakar said:


> holy jeepers batman, on page 46 of the pdf manual it shows i can plug two computers directly into the modem.
> 
> so that means it is a router then doesnt it?
> 
> ...



that's correct. IF it actually works. many modems have tons of features but some are disabled


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## keakar (Feb 13, 2009)

W1zzard said:


> that's correct. IF it actually works. many modems have tons of features but some are disabled




yep   the network is unable to connect. contact your cable provider for assistance. 

i guess there gonna tell me i gotta pay for an extra ip address $$$$$


everything was looking like it was working and i even found the right usb driver but there was no ip address found for it on the usb only for the eithernet plug.


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## Mussels (Feb 14, 2009)

what you need to try, is with a switch. connect both PC's to the ethernet port and see what happens.

you can get a 10/100 switch for loose change these days, it may well fix your problem - if not, its only $10 or so, and you have a spare switch.


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## keakar (Feb 15, 2009)

well i called them and your gonna love their answer:

this comcast guy tells me "sir, the modem you have cant connect 2 computers at the same time, it can only connect 1 computer but you can use 2 ways to connect to that 1 computer" 

i say well the motorola guy says i can hook up both computers if comcast just gives me a second ip address.

the comcast dimwit then proceeds to tell me "well he's just flat out wrong on that" and im like "dude this is the company that makes the product, dont you think he knows more about it than you?

trying not to start cursing at this point i take a breath and inform the guy that i am holding the motorola owners manual for the modem comcast installed in my house and i proceeded to read to him straight from the manual how to connect 2 computers to that modem without the need for a router by using the usb port connection for the second computer.

then the idiot says "well what i really meant to say was yes you can hook 2 computers up to the modem but we cant give you a second ip address"

"but if you want, i'll sign you up for another internet account for $45 a month more and then i can give you a second ip address."


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## keakar (Feb 15, 2009)

Mussels said:


> what you need to try, is with a switch. connect both PC's to the ethernet port and see what happens.
> 
> you can get a 10/100 switch for loose change these days, it may well fix your problem - if not, its only $10 or so, and you have a spare switch.



sounds like its worth a try, were do you find them and what are they called?

are they faster than routers and are they basically just a Y connector?


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## keakar (Feb 15, 2009)

the more i find out about this stuff the more i think a cross over cable seen here: http://duxcw.com/faq/network/hubsw.htm

looks like the best way to go since i only have 2 computers and im not networking between them.

what do you guys think?

im guessing i will need to splice the wire between the modem and first computer so i have 1 plug in the middle and one on each end?


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## newtekie1 (Feb 15, 2009)

That is definitely not the way to do it.

You need a router if you want to use two or more computers with your internect connection.  Or pay the extra for a second IP(which is pointless).

As for using a faster router, the 10/100 router will be fast enough, your internet connection is very likely not going to exceed 100Mb/s.  However, the BEFSR41 isn't exactly a great router.  Though if you have cable speed fluctuations can be normal, especially during peak usage times.


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## timta2 (Feb 15, 2009)

Yes, you need to use the router. The BEFSR41 is a fine router to use in a non-commercial setting. I've used one since I bought my Ver 1 in '99. One of the drawbacks of a cable modem is that they operate on a shared network between the other customers in your neighborhood. Its typical that things will slow down at times when more people are online, usually afternoon and early evening. I used to get a faster response time and page loads with my DSL (which isn't shared) than I ever do with my cable modem. If you think that the router is causing your slowdowns you can always plug your computer directly into the modem bypassing the router to test speeds. You also have to realize that your connection also relies on the connection/server on the other end. If the connection/server has a lot of people connected it is going to be a little slower, especially on more non-major sites.

Also, if an application is using most or all of your upload bandwidth (torrents for example) your download speed is going to suffer since acknowledgements will not get through. You would want to set an upload limit of about 80% of your total upload speed.


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## keakar (Feb 15, 2009)

well i guess that answers that then, i'll have to be happy with what i have but sometimes like from midnite to 3 am it takes 30 seconds just to open my email account or log on here.


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## Mussels (Feb 15, 2009)

from the sounds of things, your modem (even if it IS a router) is only running as a modem. you are going to need a router.

the question now, is how do we solve your speed issues from earlier.

(oh and do not ever try and split a cable between two PC's. a switch may be similar in a very basic way, but you cant just split a cable  and expect it to work)


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## amd64skater (Feb 15, 2009)

newtekie1 said:


> That is definitely not the way to do it.
> 
> You need a router if you want to use two or more computers with your internect connection.  Or pay the extra for a second IP(which is pointless).
> 
> As for using a faster router, the 10/100 router will be fast enough, your internet connection is very likely not going to exceed 100Mb/s.  However, the BEFSR41 isn't exactly a great router.  Though if you have cable speed fluctuations can be normal, especially during peak usage times.



i have that same router but ver4 i just need a guide to make it peek performance


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## keakar (Feb 15, 2009)

amd64skater said:


> i have that same router but ver4 i just need a guide to make it peek performance



try this: ftp://ftp.linksys.com/pdf/befsr11_befsr41ug.pdf

its version 2 but shouldnt be much different setings.


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## mrhuggles (Feb 16, 2009)

dude, if you can transfer so fast, im guessing that your pings are low, try pinging yahoo.com and see if its in the 10-30ms range, if it is then your gold, if you have low pings and websites load slow? well thats an easy one man, that means your DNS servers are sucking.

try openDNS maybe? or if your already useing openDNS try your isp's default dns servers


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## amd64skater (Feb 16, 2009)

mrhuggles said:


> dude, if you can transfer so fast, im guessing that your pings are low, try pinging yahoo.com and see if its in the 10-30ms range, if it is then your gold, if you have low pings and websites load slow? well thats an easy one man, that means your DNS servers are sucking.
> 
> try openDNS maybe? or if your already useing openDNS try your isp's default dns servers



are you talking to me?


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## keakar (Feb 16, 2009)

Mussels said:


> from the sounds of things, your modem (even if it IS a router) is only running as a modem. you are going to need a router.
> 
> the question now, is how do we solve your speed issues from earlier.
> 
> (oh and do not ever try and split a cable between two PC's. a switch may be similar in a very basic way, but you cant just split a cable  and expect it to work)



yep, i was hoping i could rig it somehow lol

this is a good sample of my speeds:  http://gallery.filefront.com/keakar//1175228/


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## mrhuggles (Feb 16, 2009)

your latency looks ok, prolly for sure dns servers being slow


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## Mussels (Feb 17, 2009)

with speeds like that, yes, its something else like DNS.


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