# windows 10 worth the upgrade?



## jonathan1107 (Aug 1, 2015)

Strictly from a GAMER's perspective, is it worth upgrading?
I know it will support dx12 of course. But are there any "benchmarks" out there to showcase the Windows 10 FPS increase in games. Is there enough concrete evidence that the upgrade should be a "no-brainer" ?


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## FordGT90Concept (Aug 1, 2015)

The framerate is about the same as Windows 8.1 but supposedly there are fewer jumps in frame time due to WDDM 2.0 in Windows 10.  8.1 and 10 are slightly faster than 7.


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## R-T-B (Aug 1, 2015)

If you are running 7 you'll get grandfathered into the huge leaps made in 8/8.1.

You also won't have to deal with Metro near as much.  And those leaps are pretty big.

The leaps if you were already running 8 would be far less.


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## m&m's (Aug 1, 2015)

From what I've seen, between 8.1 and 10, there is a difference of about 1-2 and sometimes 3 fps.

Windows 8.1 vs 10 graphics performance review

To take with a grain of salt.


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## jonathan1107 (Aug 13, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> If you are running 7 you'll get grandfathered into the huge leaps made in 8/8.1.
> 
> You also won't have to deal with Metro near as much.  And those leaps are pretty big.
> 
> The leaps if you were already running 8 would be far less.



when you say "you won't have todeal with "metro" near as much" ... what is "metro" ?


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## R-T-B (Aug 13, 2015)

jonathan1107 said:


> when you say "you won't have todeal with "metro" near as much" ... what is "metro" ?



Metro is best described by Wikipedia.  It's an app design philosophy by Microsoft that is more tablet oriented.


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## kn00tcn (Aug 13, 2015)

from a privacy & control perspective, it most certainly isnt

you shouldnt upgrade things if your games run fine already


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## NC37 (Aug 13, 2015)

jonathan1107 said:


> when you say "you won't have todeal with "metro" near as much" ... what is "metro" ?



The bane of all existence and the epitome of mankind's evil heart! It must die, with fire, and more fire, and then tossed into a black hole...then more fire.


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## Blue-Knight (Aug 14, 2015)

jonathan1107 said:


> Strictly from a GAMER's perspective, is it worth upgrading?


Definitely.


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## R-T-B (Aug 14, 2015)

kn00tcn said:


> from a privacy & control perspective, it most certainly isnt
> 
> you shouldnt upgrade things if your games run fine already



That's not the perspective he asked for.


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## jonathan1107 (Aug 14, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> That's not the perspective he asked for.



To be honest, I've seen youtube benchmarks of windows 10 vs windows 7 in games and the difference is often in the favor of windows 7 actually. With the possible exception that the GPUs seem to run a bit cooler on windows 10 (no idea how) ... anyhow.

I'll wait for dx12 titles to start coming out before going through all the hoops to get windows 10 installed. I'd definitly upgrade to windows 10 if the Frames Per Second gain was around 10%+

Which it doesn't seem to be (when looking @ legit benchmarks...) (not hyped, biased, sponsored ones)


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## R-T-B (Aug 14, 2015)

jonathan1107 said:


> To be honest, I've seen youtube benchmarks of windows 10 vs windows 7 in games and the difference is often in the favor of windows 7 actually. With the possible exception that the GPUs seem to run a bit cooler on windows 10 (no idea how) ... anyhow.
> 
> I'll wait for dx12 titles to start coming out before going through all the hoops to get windows 10 installed. I'd definitly upgrade to windows 10 if the Frames Per Second gain was around 10%+
> 
> Which it doesn't seem to be (when looking @ legit benchmarks...) (not hyped, biased, sponsored ones)



I'm sorry I didn't provide the gaming perspective.

8/8.1 made the huge leap honestly.  and it's still about 10% yeah.  10 is still beta enough that the leaps it makes are not competitive or consistent, honestly.

This is my assessment after actually playing with it.


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## Atomic77 (Aug 15, 2015)

To answer the question about metro that was asked on this topic  Metro as far as I know is the start screen with all the tiles on it and apps that are mostly meant for a touch screen.. As for the other part of the discussion I don't really know about 10 because im not messing with it.


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## purplekaycee (Aug 18, 2015)

Can I upgrade to windows 10 from 8,?


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## AsRock (Aug 18, 2015)

purplekaycee said:


> Can I upgrade to windows 10 from 8,?



Only if you update to win 8.1 first
http://www.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/windows-10-specifications#upgrade


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## steen (Aug 18, 2015)

AsRock said:


> Only if you update to win 8.1 first



Not entirely correct. You can upgrade from vanilla 7 & 8 if you use the MS USB/ISO download tool (or MSDN image).

https://www.microsoft.com/en-US/software-download/windows10


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## Caring1 (Aug 18, 2015)

steen said:


> Not entirely correct. You can upgrade from vanilla 7 & 8 if you use the MS USB/ISO download tool (or MSDN image).


Not entirely correct, you can upgrade via GWX on W7 and W8.1.
Use the ISO at your own risk.


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## GreiverBlade (Aug 18, 2015)

jonathan1107 said:


> Strictly from a GAMER's perspective, is it worth upgrading?
> I know it will support dx12 of course. But are there any "benchmarks" out there to showcase the Windows 10 FPS increase in games. Is there enough concrete evidence that the upgrade should be a "no-brainer" ?


it  would be ... once the guinea pig will say : ok, on a case to case basis... 

for me its a : NO, on the main rig for the moment , since the auto update from M$ now decide which video driver is the best and install it for me ... and no the latest nvidia driver is not the best, security update and patch yes, but NO M$ you don't have the right to choose which driver i have to install, I do that myself quite correctly since my 1st PC. 

altho i did make the upgrade on my Laptop (Dell Vostro 15 3549) and it's flawless, tho it's a pretty basic laptop (i5-5200U HD Graphics 5500 Realtek lan and Broadcom bluetooth+Wlan combo) the only problem i got on that one is my bluetooth mouse refuse to pair again with the lappy (but i guess i forgot to reset the previous pairing  so it's my fault), although i did notice a little better in some game i play (DX9/DX11) but the lappy was under 8.1 Pro 

DX12? if the rate of adoption will be higher than DX11 ... well it might be something worth it ... (Final Fantasy XIV passed  from DX9 to DX11 only this year with the Heavensward release  )

short version, 
for my laptop for casual mobile gaming and day to day task (browsing, movie playback, etc ): worth it.
for my desktop: not worth it (unless they stop controlling the drivers updates, or give the mean to disable it without a script for user who know what they do. one Apple is enough.)


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## DEFEATEST (Aug 18, 2015)

If I may ask a side question here. If I like the upgrade and all is good with my gaming......and in 3 months my mobo dies or I buy new rig do I then have to buy full win 10 copy?


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## Jack1n (Aug 18, 2015)

DEFEATEST said:


> If I may ask a side question here. If I like the upgrade and all is good with my gaming......and in 3 months my mobo dies or I buy new rig do I then have to buy full win 10 copy?


Only if you upgrade from an OEM windows, in which case if your motherboard dies you would have to buy a new windows anyway, if its a retail copy you own then you will NOT have to buy a new copy.


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## Jetster (Aug 18, 2015)

DEFEATEST said:


> If I may ask a side question here. If I like the upgrade and all is good with my gaming......and in 3 months my mobo dies or I buy new rig do I then have to buy full win 10 copy?



Technically yes if it an OEM copy on your current PC. And you build a new PC you will have to buy a new copy of Windows 10.  
But Ive done many board changes with an OEM copy and worse case I called MS and did the automated activation. 
So that should work. 
The OEM license does cover board changes as long as its the same board. You just have to call.


If your thinking about upgrading to Windows 10.
There have been some glitches that need to get worked out.
Have a back up or your original copy of windows, image, recovery partition in case it fails.
If your not prepared for a clean install then don't do the upgrade.


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## RyanK (Aug 18, 2015)

Take into consideration that DX12 has not yet been implemented into any games. We do have the first DX12 title on the way who's name escapes me. I'm on 7 now, system is stable, I feel no need to upgrade at the moment with all the complaints of driver or software troubles with games.


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## kn00tcn (Aug 18, 2015)

RyanK said:


> Take into consideration that DX12 has not yet been implemented into any games. We do have the first DX12 title on the way who's name escapes me. I'm on 7 now, system is stable, I feel no need to upgrade at the moment with all the complaints of driver or software troubles with games.


ashes of singularity, it's out or at least the benchmark


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## Aquinus (Aug 19, 2015)

Once I got my driver issues squared away, I felt like Windows 10 is a little bit faster than 7. I get higher scores on the Valley benchmark in Windows 10.


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## tabascosauz (Aug 19, 2015)

kn00tcn said:


> ashes of singularity, it's out or at least the benchmark



Oh look, it's the "game" from Stardock that is essentially Star Swarm in a playable package.


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## tabascosauz (Aug 19, 2015)

Jetster said:


> Technically yes if it an OEM copy on your current PC. And you build a new PC you will have to buy a new copy of Windows 10.
> But Ive done many board changes with an OEM copy and worse case I called MS and did the automated activation.
> So that should work.
> The OEM license does cover board changes as long as its the same board. You just have to call.
> ...



Dunno about this anymore jet, Windows 10 keys look awfully generic to me. The one in About Computer is basically a string of zeros and the other one from Jelly Bean Keyfinder doesn't look too unique either.

I don't even remember seeing an activate by phone option in Win 10. Maybe the system works its magic and still works via that method, maybe it doesn't. With Windows 10 I didn't think that there were that many glitches, just that the OS is kind of bare because MS intends to add stuff to it as we go along. Very sparse.


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## purplekaycee (Aug 19, 2015)

steen said:


> Not entirely correct. You can upgrade from vanilla 7 & 8 if you use the MS USB/ISO download tool (or MSDN image).
> 
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-US/software-download/windows10


Really?my Windows 10 is in iso form so does that make it possible?


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## GLD (Aug 19, 2015)

I think Windows 10 it is worth the upgrade.

The first Win 10 drivers for both my onboard Realtek Lan and Creative X-Fi Fatal1ty pci sound card released today, 8-18-15. So yes, it is NOW worth the upgrade.


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## Jetster (Aug 19, 2015)

The serial is generic but the license is linked to your HWID


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## xkm1948 (Aug 20, 2015)

Just finished a clean install of 10 Pro. Thanks to R-T-B. First did a fresh install of Vanilla Win7(My old 7 always stuck using the upgrade). Then I used the disk to upgrade it to Win10 Pro. After it is activated, I sanitized the SSD and did a fresh install using the disk again. Once it connected to internet Win10 reactivated without any problem. Clean install is definitely good.


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## Dacur (Aug 20, 2015)

As a gamer (old) who likes to play old games like BF2, CoD, MoH, u might want to read this: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/08/17/windows-10-safedisc-securom-drm/


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## Jatheon (Aug 20, 2015)

Not good news for gamers.


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## FordGT90Concept (Aug 20, 2015)

Retro gamers, no; current and future games, yes.  Microsoft killing DRM for the sake of security is a massive nail in physical DRM's coffin.


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## lilhasselhoffer (Aug 20, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Retro gamers, no; current and future games, yes.  Microsoft killing DRM for the sake of security is a massive nail in physical DRM's coffin.



Hate to burst your bubble here, but be realistic.
1) DRM is not being killed by MS.
2) Securom only from a few games is causing the compatibility issues, and what has been in the news.
3) Securom has been poison for years.  Newer DRM schemes are just as bad, only they still work on Windows.


What MS has done for gamers, with respect to Windows 10, is either poison old gaming or make promises it has no way to yet keep.  While I applaud the admission that Securom is so bad as to be a security flaw, its hardly is the death of DRM.  I'll still take Windows 7 and customer education (or just not buying anything from EA) above the lofty promises and assumptions people are making about Windows 10.


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## FordGT90Concept (Aug 20, 2015)

lilhasselhoffer said:


> Hate to burst your bubble here, but be realistic.
> 1) DRM is not being killed by MS.
> 2) Securom only from a few games is causing the compatibility issues, and what has been in the news.
> 3) Securom has been poison for years.  Newer DRM schemes are just as bad, only they still work on Windows.


1 & 2) Disc-based DRM is from what I gather.  SecuROM is capable of disc and online checks so those titles that rely solely on disc activation aren't working.  PC gamers have been pleading for the end of disc activation for a long time and this move by Microsoft makes removal of disc DRM mandatory.
3) The new model relies on store DRM like Steam and Origin.  This model of DRM is constantly getting updates and, as long as the platform itself isn't abandoned, I don't see those updates stopping.  They're not great and DRM-free (see GOG) is much better but the enforcement of a one game per logged in user policy is acceptable to most.

EA is a hero here to some extent because many games that had SecuROM are redeemable on Origin (may require contacting Customer Service).


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## lilhasselhoffer (Aug 20, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> 1 & 2) Disc-based DRM is from what I gather.  SecuROM is capable of disc and online checks so those titles that rely solely on disc activation aren't working.  PC gamers have been pleading for the end of disc activation for a long time and this move by Microsoft makes removal of disc DRM mandatory.
> 3) The new model relies on store DRM like Steam and Origin.  This model of DRM is constantly getting updates and, as long as the platform itself isn't abandoned, I don't see those updates stopping.  They're not great and DRM-free (see GOG) is much better but the enforcement of a one game per logged in user policy is acceptable to most.
> 
> EA is a hero here to some extent because many games that had SecuROM are redeemable on Origin (may require contacting Customer Service).



I'll acquiesce to improvements from MS.  At the same time, who sells physical discs?

DRM employed by Steam and Origin can be just as terrible.  I'm thinking Anno 2070 (still having activation limits in the last couple of years, WTF?).  I'm thinking Spore (still sold on Steam BTW).  Disc requiring DRM is finally dead, but it's like getting a participation ribbon in a marathon.  You did finally manage to complete the race, but only significantly after the race has functionally been over for quite some time.  Steam and Origin, combined with the inability to resell games because of DRM, has made computer gaming functionally independent of discs for years.  I think the last game I got on disc was Skyrim, and that game decided to download via Steam rather than use the disc (yeah, you can force it in settings, but it really highlights just how useless discs are).



As far as EA offering digital downloads for older customers, I think it's a wash.  Yes, you get your old games on a new service, but at the same time the service is Origin.  I may be the only person stubborn enough to still be this way, but EA hasn't earned enough trust to get me to install their platform on anything I own.  Between terrible business decisions, atrocious assumptions about the customers, treating us like money filled pinatas, and destroying studio after studio I can't see anything they do as purely good, because the other shoe drops too soon.  The cynic in me says EA is inflating their Origin user base by "giving" people access to games they've purchased.


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## Vayra86 (Aug 20, 2015)

lilhasselhoffer said:


> I'll acquiesce to improvements from MS.  At the same time, who sells physical discs?
> 
> DRM employed by Steam and Origin can be just as terrible.  I'm thinking Anno 2070 (still having activation limits in the last couple of years, WTF?).  I'm thinking Spore (still sold on Steam BTW).  Disc requiring DRM is finally dead, but it's like getting a participation ribbon in a marathon.  You did finally manage to complete the race, but only significantly after the race has functionally been over for quite some time.  Steam and Origin, combined with the inability to resell games because of DRM, has made computer gaming functionally independent of discs for years.  I think the last game I got on disc was Skyrim, and that game decided to download via Steam rather than use the disc (yeah, you can force it in settings, but it really highlights just how useless discs are).
> 
> ...



EA is doing whatever they can to inflate their Origin user base. How about the free giveaways of old games? It fits in perfectly. And the whole SecuRom deal is nice, but you're basically trading horse poo for cow shit because you get Origin in return. And the cherry on the cake is EA's response to the data mining within Origin not too long ago.

I'm with you bro. Origin: not in a million years.


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## rtwjunkie (Aug 20, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> 1 & 2) Disc-based DRM is from what I gather.  SecuROM is capable of disc and online checks so those titles that rely solely on disc activation aren't working.  PC gamers have been pleading for the end of disc activation for a long time and this move by Microsoft makes removal of disc DRM mandatory.
> 3) The new model relies on store DRM like Steam and Origin.  This model of DRM is constantly getting updates and, as long as the platform itself isn't abandoned, I don't see those updates stopping.  They're not great and DRM-free (see GOG) is much better but the enforcement of a one game per logged in user policy is acceptable to most.
> 
> EA is a hero here to some extent because many games that had SecuROM are redeemable on Origin (may require contacting Customer Service).


 
You obviously did not read my link in the other thread about DRM on PC Gaming Wikihttp://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_Big_List_of_3rd_Party_DRM_on_Steam.  You tout Steam and Origin as the only DRM for games on those platforms.  Not true, and that was the point of those articles.  There are games you download from both those platforms that have Securom and Stardock as well as others.  Pretty nifty, huh?  Steam and Origin aren't real quick to tell yu that, are they?

Some of those games with Securom you can redeem on Origin?  Well, get ready....the digital versions of Crysis and Crysis Warhead have not had Securom removed.  It still installs on your computer.That's just an example.


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## FordGT90Concept (Aug 20, 2015)

lilhasselhoffer said:


> I'm thinking Anno 2070 (still having activation limits in the last couple of years, WTF?).


uPlay



lilhasselhoffer said:


> I'm thinking Spore (still sold on Steam BTW).


SecuROM 7



lilhasselhoffer said:


> Steam and Origin, combined with the inability to resell games because of DRM, has made computer gaming functionally independent of discs for years.


Both of those are a subscription service.  You're not buying software (something that is resalable), you're buying rights to use someone else's software.  It's effectively what they were trying to achieve with disk activation in the first place.



rtwjunkie said:


> Some of those games with Securom you can redeem on Origin?  Well, get ready....the digital versions of Crysis and Crysis Warhead have not had Securom removed.  It still installs on your computer.That's just an example.


Now that Microsoft acted, we'll have to see how EA (and others) respond, if at all.  Microsoft has effectively thrown a gauntlet down and it will flood technical support with complaints about the game not working on Windows 10.  It's going to translate to a lot of refunds and, failing that, a lot of BBB complaints. EA (and others) will be forced to make a decision between pulling the product from their store or removing the underlying DRM.  Time will tell...


If it looks like I'm defending DRM, I apologize.  I hate DRM as much as the next guy.  I'm just optimistic...


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## lilhasselhoffer (Aug 20, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> uPlay
> 
> 
> SecuROM 7
> ...



Perhaps I've missed the comparison here.  When have we bought computer games in the last decade?  I can't remember a single one that allowed any online connectivity, and was actually resellable.  Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but every single EULA I've read through in the last decade has always said that you don't own the software, only the rights to use it.  I'm pretty clear on the original Starcraft and Warcraft having that, in the late nineties.  



FordGT90Concept said:


> Retro gamers, no; current and future games, yes. * Microsoft killing DRM for the sake of security is a massive nail in physical DRM's coffin.*



MS is killing physical DRM, but nothing else.  They're killing off old Securom based games, because it's a security risk.  These things are...not exactly harming DRM.

My point is that MS didn't move to kill physical DRM in any form.  What they did was make programs that call home, without any regards for the user, something that their new OS wouldn't natively support due to the security risk.  You can still play these games with a no CD crack (assuming you can find a download source).  What they've done is finally agree that digital distribution, wherein you actively decide to call home, is the future of DRM.  Anything that can fit within these borders (looking at you WB Studios, and your craptastic DRM choices) is still allowed, and realistically with most software being download only what did MS accomplish?  They completed the DRM race years after Steam and Origin made physical copies a functional relic.


Those that support DRM still have the ability to put whatever they want into games.  Those against DRM still have GoG.  The only people MS influenced with this either don't have a decent internet connection (no downloading), or stopped buying games in the early 2000's but still keep up to date on operating systems.  I can't really say that either of these demographics exist, because games are a luxury purchase.  MS offering the free upgrade to Windows 10, that comes with the price of older games being shut out, isn't exactly a step forward for games.  This is why I took issue for you saying Windows 10 is an improvement for gamers.




Our DRM policy seems to be similar.  Assuming your customer is a thief, before even selling them anything, is backwards.  CD Projekt Red prove that point every day with the Witcher, yet that's not what MS is pushing for.  MS is pushing for closing their platform a little bit more, under the auspices of increased security.  While I don't want DRM, it isn't a genuinely good thing for gamers to lose history, or a reason to upgrade to Windows 10.  I'll agree with your optimism about this being an initial action in ongoing changes to DRM, but I've been around too long to believe that companies like EA and Valve would ever overlook profits to treat customers with respect when they've got a near monopoly.


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## Jetster (Sep 3, 2015)

Cant figure out how. For the life of me

I have Heaven benchmark Icon on my desktop. How can I add it to my start menu/metro
Its not located under the programs list

Ive noticed this with some older programs. I need more control over my start/programs lists


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## Kursah (Sep 3, 2015)

You can always install ClassicShell start menu and likely it'll be there. Works great with Win10 if you want a more Win7-style Start Menu. Also you can go to the Start Menu file structure and add things:

%appdata%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu

That should get you there. So if that program is missing, you should be able to add it, and it should pop up on the Win10 menu if you need it there. Otherwise, just pin it to start and use it as a tile, I've grown to like the start menu tiles for commonly used items, otherwise I usually stash shortcuts in folders on my desktop. We all do things a little differently.


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## rtwjunkie (Sep 3, 2015)

I've also been checking out Start 10 by Stardock.  It gives you a number of options on the start menu, including going back to W7 style, as well as other control measures and changes to the whole desktop.


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## wiak (Sep 3, 2015)

well i went from 10fps (DX11) to 19fps (DX12) by upgrading to windows 10 and running Ashes Benchmark in High/1080p (FX-8350, HD 7970, 32GB DDR3, 512GB SSD)
people that say windows 10 suck for games should wash their mouth


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## Pill Monster (Sep 3, 2015)

Jetster said:


> Cant figure out how. For the life of me
> 
> I have Heaven benchmark Icon on my desktop. How can I add it to my start menu/metro
> Its not located under the programs list
> ...


Did u try right clicking and select add to start menu?



wiak said:


> well i went from 10fps (DX11) to 19fps (DX12) by upgrading to windows 10 and running Ashes Benchmark in High/1080p (FX-8350, HD 7970, 32GB DDR3, 512GB SSD)
> people that say windows 10 suck for games should wash their mouth


When did AMD release DX12 drivers?


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 4, 2015)

Windows 10 drivers are WDDM 2.0/DirectX12...so beginning of August.


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## Jetster (Sep 4, 2015)

Pill Monster said:


> Did u try right clicking and select add to start menu?



I see no such option?

And Im running DX12. But I don't think the 7970 is. I'm really not even sure the 780 is


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## Jetster (Sep 4, 2015)

So the Heaven shortcut has no "Pin to start" option

And another issues I'm having is Firefox web print is all jacked up. The scaling is off. Ether too big or too small

EDIT:  I figured out the Heaven issue. Its not an application its a batch file


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 4, 2015)

"Direct3D feature level: 11_0"

You're running DirectX 12 (that's all Windows 10 has after all) but the card is effectively running at Direct3D 11.0 spec.  To run Direct3D 12 spec, it has to support feature level 12.0 or greater.


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## Pill Monster (Sep 4, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Windows 10 drivers are WDDM 2.0/DirectX12...so beginning of August.


Hmmm OK.  I killed my 7950 the other day after spilling a coffee cup on on top my case...my own fault, Using an old FireGL 3100 so yeah not gaming much atm. 



I switched back to 7 just before RTM...last straw was when disabling UAC prevented Metro apps from running. Imho MS turned a decent OS into something which is now worse than Vista.......


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 4, 2015)

The only Metro app I've used is Edge when IE11 doesn't work on a website.  I also tested the Xbox app.  Neither get regular use.


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## Pill Monster (Sep 4, 2015)

Yeah I said Metro but I really meant windows apps....highly annoying.
It wouldn't be so bad if the UAC prompt didn't appear every 2mins while loged in as admin on the only local account. It just makes u wanna turn it off (well, me), but then win apps don't run.

MS cover it at about 4min 20 on this msdn vid, 8.1, but applies to 10 as well...


If u want, go to:

_HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\System_

Set *EnableLUA* *0* and enjoy.


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## Jetster (Sep 7, 2015)

I just tested Windows image back up in windows 10. They put the system imaging back into Windows after taking it out in Windows 8. Last month after I did a clean install I made an Image.
Its a little hidden. After creating an image. To restore:
Settings/update and security/recovery/restart now/advance/use image

It literally took 10 minutes to restore my system

To make an Image just use Backup and restore in the control panel it says (Windows 7)


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## krammuel (Sep 7, 2015)

GreiverBlade said:


> it  would be ... once the guinea pig will say : ok, on a case to case basis...
> 
> for me its a : NO, on the main rig for the moment , since the auto update from M$ now decide which video driver is the best and install it for me ... and no the latest nvidia driver is not the best, security update and patch yes, but NO M$ you don't have the right to choose which driver i have to install, I do that myself quite correctly since my 1st PC.
> 
> ...



Completely agree with you on that point. M$ (I like the "dollar sign" for that, since that is what they are all about) needs to address that right away. I too can't stand not knowing what is going on with "MY" pc.


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## Drone (Sep 7, 2015)

People who don't need Edge, Store, and all those bloated W10 apps can get Windows 10 Enterprise ltsb. Ltsb is a "clean" Windows 10 edition plus you have all Enterprise functionality. Because it's stripped from all that bloatware it installs and boots faster than Pro version. Unfortunately ltsb is more expensive


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## Jetster (Sep 7, 2015)

krammuel said:


> Completely agree with you on that point. M$ (I like the "dollar sign" for that, since that is what they are all about) needs to address that right away. I too can't stand not knowing what is going on with "MY" pc.









The pro version you can defer the updates


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## Aquinus (Sep 7, 2015)

Drone said:


> People who don't need Edge, Store, and all those bloated W10 apps can get Windows 10 Enterprise ltsb. Ltsb is a "clean" Windows 10 edition plus you have all Enterprise functionality. Because it's stripped from all that bloatware it installs and boots faster than Pro version. Unfortunately ltsb is more expensive


You can remove all of these things using PowerShell. This is touched upon in the "Windows 10 Tweaks" thread.

```
PS C:\Users\***> Get-AppXPackage *store*


Name              : Microsoft.WindowsStore
Publisher         : CN=Microsoft Corporation, O=Microsoft Corporation, L=Redmond, S=Washington, C=US
Architecture      : X64
ResourceId        :
Version           : 2015.8.25.0
PackageFullName   : Microsoft.WindowsStore_2015.8.25.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe
InstallLocation   : C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.WindowsStore_2015.8.25.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe
IsFramework       : False
PackageFamilyName : Microsoft.WindowsStore_8wekyb3d8bbwe
PublisherId       : 8wekyb3d8bbwe
IsResourcePackage : False
IsBundle          : False
IsDevelopmentMode : False
Dependencies      : {Microsoft.VCLibs.140.00_14.0.22929.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe,
                    Microsoft.NET.Native.Runtime.1.0_1.0.22929.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe}



PS C:\Users\***> Remove-AppxPackage Microsoft.WindowsStore_2015.8.25.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe
```


----------



## Drone (Sep 8, 2015)

Cumulative update for W10: September 8, 2015


This is the biggest update W10 ever had. Lol look at the file list.
This is pretty good for those who installed Windows 10 today. Just one update that has everything, no need to install previous updates.


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## FreedomEclipse (Sep 8, 2015)

was gonna do a clean Win 10 install on my laptop today just to see how it was. However, I read that AMDs drivers for laptop APUs are still broken as hell. Either there are no graphic drivers for APUs or Hardware Acceleration just straight up doesnt work. Didnt bother installing in the end.


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 10, 2015)

So I went upstairs to get "0xF00D" and I came back down maybe 5 minutes later to my computer restarting.   Windows 10 apparently took it upon itself to install updates without notifying me.  This is the second time Windows 10 has installed updates without notification.  The last time was GPU drivers and the screen was flickering while I was using it.

I just changed the setting to "Notify to restart" instead of "Automatic" so hopefully that stupid nonsense never happens again.  Seriously, Microsoft!?!


----------



## rtwjunkie (Sep 10, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> So I went upstairs to get "0xF00D" and I came back down maybe 5 minutes later to my computer restarting.   Windows 10 apparently took it upon itself to install updates without notifying me.  This is the second time Windows 10 has installed updates without notification.  The last time was GPU drivers and the screen was flickering while I was using it.
> 
> I just changed the setting to "Notify to restart" instead of "Automatic" so hopefully that stupid nonsense never happens again.  Seriously, Microsoft!?!



I actually thought I had that beat and it behaved itself on Patch Tuesday.  It even offered to wait until 3:30am to apply the updates.  Yet yesterday, there was a lone update, and that cause me no little amount of grief on startup.  It kept locking up. Had to do 4 hard restarts to actually get to a desktop that worked.

According to the event log, I interrupted Windows Update.  Who in their right effin mind would think scheduling an update while starting up is a good idea?!!


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 11, 2015)

I noticed a quirk with Windows 10 on changing graphics cards too:  on the first boot after graphics card change, Windows 10 partially boots but then restarts the computer.  On the second attempt, it makes it to the desktop.  I noticed this going from HD 5870 to R9 290X and again going from R9 290X to 9800 GT.  It seems to no matter what cards are used, it does it.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Sep 11, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> I noticed a quirk with Windows 10 on changing graphics cards too:  on the first boot after graphics card change, Windows 10 partially boots but then restarts the computer.  On the second attempt, it makes it to the desktop.  I noticed this going from HD 5870 to R9 290X and again going from R9 290X to 9800 GT.  It seems to not matter what cards are used, it does it.


 
Quirk or deficiency, I'm undecided.  I know there are too many instances of trying unsuccessfully to get to the desktop on all new parts in a balanced system with updated drivers that Lord Microsoft approves of, because they haven't been forcefully replaced for it to be anything but "not completely ready."

Thanks for the GPU info!


----------



## Drone (Sep 11, 2015)

Lots of things are left unpolished. Many people reported problems with audiodg.exe eating lots of CPU in Windows 10. A couple of days later MS released patch and now audiodg.exe works fine. It seems they rushed it. They wanted to get rid of Windows 8.1 as fast as they can so they released Windows 10.

I also noticed that almost all manufactures release drivers for Windows 10 like mad. Almost every day (exaggeration) there's a new driver for Intel graphics, Realtek audio and same for wifi / ethernet drivers. And now MS says there's gonna be a giant update for Windows 10 in November. Now there's a logical question: why didn't they want to release Windows 10 in November in the first place? When everything is polished and ready.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 11, 2015)

Because they set the date about six months ago and they were sticking to it.  Microsoft has adopted the same release-unfinished-software-and-patch-until-it-works most publishers have these days.


----------



## Aquinus (Sep 11, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> I noticed a quirk with Windows 10 on changing graphics cards too:  on the first boot after graphics card change, Windows 10 partially boots but then restarts the computer.  On the second attempt, it makes it to the desktop.  I noticed this going from HD 5870 to R9 290X and again going from R9 290X to 9800 GT.  It seems to no matter what cards are used, it does it.


Have you tried doing it from the 5870 to the 9800 GT? The difference I see is that the R9 290X probably has a UEFI video bios whereas the others don't. I take it that the event viewer wasn't enlightening?


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 11, 2015)

It is a "UEFI Ready" card, yes, by my motherboard has zero support for UEFI so it shouldn't even see that as an option.

```
Log Name:      System
Source:        Microsoft-Windows-UserPnp
Date:          9/11/2015 6:22:30 AM
Event ID:      20001
Task Category: (7005)
Level:         Information
Keywords:      
User:          SYSTEM
Computer:      BY-2009
Description:
Driver Management concluded the process to install driver display.inf_amd64_54c15e45dc857c30\display.inf for Device Instance ID PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_0605&SUBSYS_C9733842&REV_A2\4&D57AD25&0&0018 with the following status: 0x0.
```


```
Log Name:      System
Source:        Microsoft-Windows-UserPnp
Date:          9/11/2015 6:22:30 AM
Event ID:      20003
Task Category: (7005)
Level:         Information
Keywords:      
User:          SYSTEM
Computer:      BY-2009
Description:
Driver Management has concluded the process to add Service BasicDisplay for Device Instance ID PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_0605&SUBSYS_C9733842&REV_A2\4&D57AD25&0&0018 with the following status: 0.
```
Basically just saying it installed the generic driver.  The event entry immediately after these indicate it rebooted.


----------

