# Failed 3800X Build goes Intel 10th gen :)



## ecopsorn (Jun 3, 2020)

Hi guys
We have recently filled a thread with 16 pages, trying to get my Ryzen 3800X build up and running, see this thread.
After all the tweaking, hardware changes and testing, I was just not satisfied and regretted the ridiculous purchase of a X570 Godlike to improve things .
Long story short, I've finally decided to return most of the parts to the vendor and start from scratch, this time with an Intel build for gaming and light non-4k video editing.

So keep in mind, I won't go back to an AMD build this time around, let's just focus on the Intel build.
I'm not in a hurry, I rather wait a 4-6 weeks until they have the first bios issues fixed on the Z490 boards, but I don't want to wait any longer.
I'm also planning to upgrade to Rocket Lake once it hits.

I've learned a lot back in the old thread regarding AMD, ram OC, etc., but I'm not sure if all of it applies to Intel as well. That's why I'm first gonna share the possible parts list and than go into some questions.


*Part**Description*CPUIntel Core i7-10700K or i5-10600K or else?MBASUS Rog Maximus XII Formula (LGA 1200, Intel Z490, ATX)CaseLian-Li O11Dynamic XL (Midi Tower)*Parts I already own*RamCorsair Vengeance RGB Pro (2x, 16GB, DDR4-3200, DIMM 288)RamG.Skill Trident Z Royal (4x, 8GB, DDR4-3600, DIMM 288) CL16SSDSamsung 970 EVO Plus (1000GB, M.2 2280)CPU-CoolerNoctua NH-D15 ChromaxCPU-CoolerCorsair H150i RGB PRO XT (2.70cm)GPUMSI GeForce RTX 2070S GAMING X TRIO (8GB)Power SupplyCorsair RM850 *2019* (850W)

For the old build, I likely also had a case/airflow issue, that's why I'm switching the case from a Corsair 570X to a Lian-Li O11D XL, equipped with Corsair QL fans.

*Build questions*

CPU: I'm struggling deciding between the 10700K and the 10600K and even the "non K" variants. I know that you can't answer this question for me, but probably you can give me a hint whatever direction. As I wrote above, I do intend to switch to Rocket lake according to the latest news, so I'm not overkilling it by getting the 10900K. I do still want a fast and reliable system until than.
Motherboard: I'm not sure there is much to discuss here. Even though I won't ever use the VRM watercooling feature on it, I absolutely love the design, RGB elements, general layout of the board with the CMOS battery actually at a place where it is removable, the position of the post code LED and the awesomely placed OLED screen in the middle. I might change my mind and go Hero, but since I'm also planning on Rocket lake, I'm gonna keep that board for 2 "generations"
Ram: That's a big one. I do still own the two Ram in the table. I haven't sent them back to the vendor yet. With the 3800X build, I had crazy bad latency with the vengeance at around 82ns and it only slightly got better with tighter timings, etc (on top of that it is a B-Die). For the Ryzen built, I than opted for expensive Z Royals, for more than double the price, coming in ag 420$ compared to the Corsair. I do still have the possibility to return them for 1 more week, but first I wanted to get your opinion for the Ryzen build. Should I keep those overkill rams or get something else? I know for Ryzen 3600 CL16 was the sweet spot, but what about the 10th gen Intel, are there other things to consider? From an RGB point, I'd love to go with Corsair, but I was told that Vengeance is pretty crap and if I'd go for Dominators, there are also hell expensive and I wouldn't know how much money is worth to spend for performance increases. I won't care about 1-7% increases, if it gets more to 10% I might spend money here as well. If I shouldn't keep any of the two rams in the table, what should I aim for?
CPU Cooler: I do still have the Noctua and the H150i Pro XT. I'm so crazy in between those two, I think nobody can take this decision but me, but if I go with my Noctua, how can I confirm that it really fits on the motherboard? I know that I will only be able to run it with 1 fan because 2 fans are not possible because of the ram size (at least that was the case in my Corsair 570X case and Strix E and Godlike boards). Low profile rams are hard to find nowadays.
SSD: I had very bad perforfmance on the Ryzen build, I might return that one for a warranty claim and see what they say. Anyway, would you otherwise go with the same?
PSU: Here I'm also struggling - there might be many reasons why my Ryzen build failed for me. Probably someone who watched the old thread can give me an advise on keeping that thing or go with something else.

*OC questions*

Ram OC: I'm not going to go mad on Ram OC, I did try that on the Ryzen build, but to be honest, it is not worth for me to spend my time and limited OC knowledge. I'd love just to go XMP and minor DRAM Calc tweaks (probably only primarys and trfc) and that's it.
CPU OC: For Ryzen it was not worth it, but for Intel I hear it is well worth the little time invested to get more out of the system. I've never overclocked a CPU, so I'm also looking for an easy way to squeeze a little bit more out of the system than stock but not at the cost of stability. Speaking of that, I would specifically like to ask you guys what you think about the Asus tools, AI OC and AI Cooling? No idea how that cooling thing would influence an AIO, most likely only relevant for air?




Thanks all I can think of right now, so I'm pushing that out to you guys 

thanks in advance


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 3, 2020)

if you're buying rocket lake then get a 10400f as a placeholder and faster rams

nvmd,3600 c16 is good.unless you're on a 14 day return and can get someting like a viper 4400mhz kit.

long story short,I don't feel like reading 16 pages.can you tell us what went wrong with 3800x ?


----------



## Fouquin (Jun 3, 2020)

ecopsorn said:


> Hi guys
> We have recently filled a thread with 16 pages, trying to get my Ryzen 3800X build up and running, see this thread.
> After all the tweaking, hardware changes and testing, I was just not satisfied and regretted the ridiculous purchase of a X570 Godlike to improve things .
> Long story short, I've finally decided to return most of the parts to the vendor and start from scratch, this time with an Intel build for gaming and light non-4k video editing.
> ...



10600K/KF is a great performance point with decent DRAM. 4.8GHz with 3600 CL14 quick and dirty tuning will give you a very good boost.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jun 3, 2020)

I'd keep the Corsair kit, assuming it was cheaper.

Easy way to OC with Intel, change the multiplier. 

Maybe try Gigabyte this time around, considering you've had a bad run with Asus and MSI?


----------



## Vario (Jun 3, 2020)

AsRock has been good for me for motherboards, you could try the Z490 Taichi.


----------



## Elysium (Jun 3, 2020)

You've wasted so much money, I think you shouldn't buy anything at all; you can't seem to be trusted with it to be completely honest with you. You opened up the 3800X thread with a complaint about your RAM speed and ended it fifteen pages later with deeply expensive variants of what you already had, and wherein it still didn't come up to your absurdly high standards, you gave up by taking your build apart completely. 

Just wait until the next generation of architectures from red and blue, or maybe their next node jumps. Right now, just send back all the gear you've purchased except the GPU and the Corsair RAM and case, buy a cheap Z390 board and pair it with an 8400. It's not what you want but you should just focus on what you can potentially get at the end of next year as opposed to shelling out more money over and over for the tiniest of gains.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 3, 2020)

Elysium said:


> You've wasted so much money, I think you shouldn't buy anything at all; you can't seem to be trusted with it to be completely honest with you. You opened up the 3800X thread with a complaint about your RAM speed and ended it fifteen pages later with deeply expensive variants of what you already had, and wherein it still didn't come up to your absurdly high standards, you gave up by taking your build apart completely.



"Absurdly high standards"? That's some of the most arrogant shit I've ever heard    it's not even your money, so where do you get to come in to make a judgment on whether he can be "trusted" with it when he's tried pretty much everything he can to solve the problem?

Imagine thinking that buying a Z390 board and an 8400 is somehow a better value proposition than a 10400 and a cheaper Z490 board?


----------



## Filip Georgievski (Jun 3, 2020)

Not quite up with your story of that failed built, but from my own experience working in IT Sales (doing custom builds and stuff), i can say people seem to enjoy every AMD build i do for them, from lowest Ryzen 3s to highest Ryzen 9s and all that blink.

Now i don't know your abilities around a PC (building, tweaking, OC, etc) but from my personal exp, running an all core 4.2GHz on my R5 3600 without any issues on a X570 A Pro (probably the cheapest X570 you can find on the market), with an XMP 3200mhz (not 3600mhz sweetspot, i know, but that was all the budget had to offer), performance and stability were top notch and no less than perfect.

Now i know you can get more from K SKUs from Intel, but my 3600 beats the crap out of 8600ks and 9600ks OCed to 4.8, and maybe even higher, still there would be a noticable multicore difference.

Now the 10600k would bring that gap down with HT on it, but there will be a minor edge in favor of the 10600k (10 - 15%), but keep in mind that 10600k will be more much more expensive than my 3600, plus you will need Z board to clock this which will add more to your bill, and for what, a few FPS and a couple of seconds on render times?

My advice to you, if you don't need to rush this build, don't. Take your time and wait for 4th gen Ryzen and see what it has to offer, you will probably not regret it, looking at what 4900HS did to the 9980HK in the laptop department.


----------



## sil3ntearth (Jun 4, 2020)

10600k for gaming, 10700k if you want a little more headroom for gaming + streaming + anything else.  

People can pick apart everything if they want about every little decision, but I don't think anyone could be blamed for wanting to try something else after that level of frustration.  No matter what you go with, AMD or Intel, it will do what you want it to.  With Intel, you just may be getting a bit less for the money.


----------



## A Computer Guy (Jun 4, 2020)

Just some thoughts...

There is always the chance of running into issues with building your own system especially the closer you get to the bleeding edge. 

(...just saying in a friendly voice...) You might consider getting a custom built from https://www.pugetsystems.com/ or other reputable vendor (so your part choices are vetted together) if what you are really looking for is a stable machine out of the box experience. 

CPU:
I believe https://www.youtube.com/user/GamersNexus had some review on these CPU's including overclocking.  Interesting stuff!

Case:
The 011d had issues with CPU cooler and GPU block clearances.  Not sure if XL solved that completely so you need to be sure your choice of cooler is not too tall or GPU block not to wide. 

RAM:
At one point Corsair RGB modules were having some issues (something to do with SPD corruption) perhaps only with older systems.  You may want to look on the forums for the model you have but there may be a BIOS option that needs to be enabled in some systems for RGB to be controllable.  "SPD Write" if I remember correctly.

Cooler:
I've see a lot of complaints on some of the higher model Corsair AIO's with noise and iCue detection issues.  (My lower tier H100i never gave me any issues other than a loud clicking when it was turned off.)  Again see Corsair forums for your model.  I wanted more control and dependability over my liquid cooling so I went custom loop instead.  I think my D5 pump that I have now is much quieter than whatever my H100i was using and I can now inspect and ensure the quality and operation of my loop with proper maintenance.   If you don't want to deal with any liquid cooling problems stick with air cooling.

PSU:
RM series from Corsair seems quite good and quiet.  On my model I've never had the fan spin so either 0 rpm is working flawlessly as designed or it's broken.   Having an HX620w running flawlessly since 2009 (and still in operation) is the reason I continued to go with Corsair on PSU, however any vendor can produce duds for any particular model. 

My last Intel build was a Asus P5E-WS w/ Q6600 so I have not more info for you other than the fact it overclocked my RAM by default and I never realized it until I put my AM4 system together.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 4, 2020)

Frankly if you can't make this pc work go OEM.

And just get it working save the overclocking for a few months till you and the system are settled in and used to each other.


----------



## Elysium (Jun 4, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> "Absurdly high standards"? That's some of the most arrogant shit I've ever heard


Absurdly high standards, yes, abso-freakin-lutely. DId you not see what this guy bought? 3800X? 850w PSU? The Godlike and Trident Royal _on top of those_? And he _still_ didn't have a build that he was satisfied with? And for what exactly? Cos it sure as hell wasn't even benchmarking to begin with.



> it's not even your money, so where do you get to come in to make a judgment on whether he can be "trusted" with it when he's tried pretty much everything he can to solve the problem?


You're right, it's not my money. In absolutely no way does that mean I can't offer my assessment of the situation. Is that alright with you _mein Führer_? And in case it wasn't abundantly clear, my assessment is literally that he should stop wasting his money; there's fundamentally nothing wrong with that no matter how you try to spin it.



> Imagine thinking that buying a Z390 board and an 8400 is somehow a better value proposition than a 10400 and a cheaper Z490 board?


Why bother? Again, what _exactly_ is this all for? He's claiming he wants a new PC right now. Let's hash that out. He's tried the 3800X. Didn't agree with him. He now wants to try Comet Lake. Okay. But the problem with that is he also claims he's going to buy into Rocket as well.

In other words, he's making three lateral movements within the same generation of CPUs - ALL of which are within 10% perf of each other - and waste a whole goddamn lot of money doing it. I don't know of anyone who would actually advise this course of action, not Intel fanboys, not AMD fanboys, nobody.

Hence my suggestion that he put the brakes on and _stop_ and *think* for a hot minute about why he's upgrading and about making a realistic assessment of his performance potential. And yes, a cheap, used 8400 and a Z390 board is absolutely fine as a holdover until Intel or AMD make the next node jump. It's still the same fucking Skylake arch lmfao, not exactly big gains to be had here.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jun 4, 2020)

@Elysium Didn't see you trying to help out, I just see you coming in here in the new thread being rude.
If you'd actually read up on what went down, you'd seen that there was a lot of odd things going on and I doubt all of it was down to user error.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 4, 2020)

Elysium said:


> you can't seem to be trusted with it to be completely honest with you





Elysium said:


> Is that alright with you _mein Führer_?



Get off your high horse, buddy.    You're no position to label others a Nazi. There's no place for belittling the difficulties others are facing and portraying them as some sort of mentally challenged dimwit suited only to buying OEM products.

If you want to present a value proposition in Z390, do it, although I will again reiterate that a cheaper Z490 board and Comet Lake i5 is both newer, will hold up better in the near future with HT, and provides an opportunity to sample Willow Cove when it comes to LGA1200, unlike Coffee Lake-R. If you're going to spend a similar amount of money between the two, why opt for the slower product on a dead platform that will receive no support going forward? Rocket Lake isn't the same generation, and it isn't even out yet. Cross that bridge when you get to it.

None of us have condoned his choice of flagship boards; it wasn't our idea. But it is his money and his decision. I don't think squeezing every bit of performance out of every dollar is on top of his list of priorities.


----------



## Mats (Jun 4, 2020)

Elysium said:


> you can't seem to be trusted with it to be completely honest with you.


Your honesty isn't worth much then. Leave the OP alone if you have nothing better to say.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Jun 4, 2020)

I doubt you'd actually need rocket Lake if you grab a 10700k pretty sure it'll last you through the next console generation as a viable CPU. The 10600K is also great but definitely pair it with the better of your two memory kits it scales pretty well all the way to 4000 CL15.

I would be buying that Formula board also if I was going 10th gen. I like Asus on intel even more than I like Asus on AMD and After getting the hero I plan on sticking with Asus for both AMD/Intel unless one of the other board makers blows me away with something which is doubtful. Not a huge fan of gigabytes lineup other than the Elite its a really good board for around 220 but it's not a board I would actually buy. Kinda a shame Asrock Z490 lineup seems to suck ass.

My issue with the $400 boards even the Hero is I would rather have the Unify. MSI made that board so good its hard to justify spending more..... The Formula looks way better and has 10G lan two things that are important to me on the next board I buy but if those aren't as important to you save $200 and get the Unify.

The 10400 sucks but if your dead set on upgrading to 11th gen its not a terrible cpu slide the money into one of the EATX boards lmao.


----------



## John Naylor (Jun 4, 2020)

Not much to go on regarding  what the box will do other than gaming.   But I would have left AMD outta the picture  where video editing is involved.  Im only going to use TPU reviews for consistency

1.  Gaming (@1080p):


			https://tpucdn.com/review/intel-core-i7-10700/images/relative-performance-games-1920-1080.png
		


10900k ($530)  = 99.9
10700k ($410) =
10700 ($334) = 100
10600k ($300) = 97.4
3900X ($417)  = 92.5
3700X ($275) = 91.2

Gaming (@1440p):


			https://tpucdn.com/review/intel-core-i7-10700/images/relative-performance-games-2560-1440.png
		


10900k ($530)  = 100.1
10700k ($410) =
10700 ($334) = 100
10600k ($300) = 99.0
3900X ($417)  = 96.4
3700X ($275) = 96.1

The 3900X dropped about $100 between January and February, as the 9900k was killing it.  From  a gaming perspective,  none of the currently available options are competing well .. and that's w/o even considering OCing.  If it's just gaming on the table, then it's hard to go against the 10700

Let me address the cost issue which is always over stated.  Your CPU doesn't do anything by itself, so the only relevant cost issue is system cost.

Mobo = $500
CPU =

System Cost with 10700 = $834
System Cost with 10600k = $800

So the 10700 costs 4.25% % more for a 2.7% increase in cost layout. Hardly worth worrying about.

2.  Now let's look at Video Editing


			https://tpucdn.com/review/intel-core-i7-10700/images/premiere-pro.png
		


10900k ($530)  = 229.9
10700k ($410) =
10700 ($334) =  241.9
10600k ($300) = 241.0
3900X ($417)  = 252.2
3700X ($275) =253.5

I expect the 10700k will fall between the 1st and 3rd about 235

Two things we learn here .... more cores / virtual cores only mean something if your applications use them.  Why die size crawls into the mix, I'm stumped.  If the smaller die isn't making you faster than another choice, irrelevant

The 10700 leads again but agai, I couldn't argue with either choice.

Any Photo Editing in the mix ?


			https://tpucdn.com/review/intel-core-i7-10700/images/photoshop.png
		


10900k ($530)  = 381.7
10700k ($410) =
10700 ($334) =  394.3
10600k ($300) = 406.3
3900X ($417)  = 448.5
3700X ($275) = 463.8

Here we see a much bigger spread but again the 10700 wins again.  So unless you plan on adding Brain Neuron Simulation or such app that benefits from more cores / threads ... nothing you are doing will use them.

Any think to check is the KF versions ... not as much of a prce dip as we saw with the 9xxx series but still in the $25- $35 range.

3.  As to the rest, my rule of thumb is my MoBos is gonna cost half what my CPU does.  But as Im usually in the $500 range for my CPU that's $250.  I'd stay in the $170 - $250 range ,,, going higher really isn't bringing anything to the table unless the goal is to get your name on overclocking leader boards.    Saying this still stings but we were strictly an Asis sho up until Z87 / Z97 ... but those series Asus boards were very problematic for us.  I have a Asus Formula with the built in water block, but I wouldn't buy one again.  Then theee's the RoG tax which adds 15-20 % and all i got for it was a decal, a doorknob hanger and a large telephone bill for support calls.  In addition your current AIO won't hook up to the MoBo VBlock

So let's compare the differences between the Formula and the

Memory and M2:  Look here








						Computer parts, laptops, electronics, and more - Newegg United States
					

Newegg is proud to offer United States the best prices, fast shipping and top-rated customer service for Computer Parts, Laptops, Electronics and more!




					www.newegg.com
				




VRM - MSI has 12 phases, Asus has 16 ... I'd not be concerned about the difference, again unless you chasing an overclocking crown

Otherwise didn't see anything to get excited about.

4.  Cooling ....Based Upon TPU AIDA 64 testing, ....

The Corsair 150 i Pro keeps the CPU at 80C for $170
The Noctua  keeps the CPU at 81C for $100
The Scyth Fuma 2  keeps the CPU at 80C for $54

If you do spring for the $500 MoBo, Id grab a Swiftech expandable  H360 X3 whereby you could use the MoBo  water block.  No galvanic corrosion issues and only $165 plus a few inchs of tubing and 2 fittings.

5.   As for the PSU, if you can return it because you are uncertain my "Go to" is the Seasonic Gold + series

The 10700 can pull 393 watts ... scary ?   Everything else is within 10%


			https://tpucdn.com/review/intel-core-i7-10700/images/power-gaming.png
		


10900k ($530)  = 395
10700k ($410) =
10700 ($334) =  393
10600k ($300) = 383
3900X ($417)  = 385
3700X ($275) =365

Your card pulls 245 ... so I would stick w/ the 850 watter.  The think is all over the place I'm seeing PSU prices double what they were 2 days ago ... its a $150 PSU.

6.  Case --- it's not that i can say anything negative about the Lian Li.    But with the Phantels Evolve X in the picture, It's hard for me to consider anything else of late,  The case has won more awards than any other in our 30 years of PC Building, with many reviewers saying it belongs in an art museum.  But with the pandemic clowing down deliveries, almost everywhere I look, its twice the price it was days ago.  Air flow is superb as tested, looks, fantastic, cabling features.... everyone else is playing catch up.

7.  As for RAM, id take the opportunity to try what you have.

Only other advice id give is to take every things with a grain of salt ... mine included .. *always verify*.  If ya told that this is faster than that ... look at the reviews here and verify.   To me, it ain't real until I see it on TPU.  The dilly willies on youtube are good for laughs and not much else.  Jayzs2cents outta be arrested for price gouging.   Anyone who drills thru a MoBo, to mount a cooler ruining a $400 should lose their youtube license.

I would also recognize thet we are looking at the 1st stepping MoBos and CPUs ... 2nd steppings will hev less bugs and production line efficiencies over time will lead to a higher % of boards / CPUs passing GHz targets.

My youngest (24) just did his 5th build, a 3800X box, because he "read on  the internet" that more cores and smaller die size was important.  That may be so if you doing brain neuron simulation, but not in anything he actualy does on his PC ... he now says he's glad he tried it but he'd do a 900KF if he could do it again... it's simply faster than the 3800X and even the 3900X in what he does.

In closing, *in your areas of interest*, .....

a) If cost is a consideration, I like the 10700 but I couldn't argue against any of the listed Intel CPUs ... at least till AMD comes back late in a few months and perhaps Rocket lake falling by the end of 2020 year and then 

b)  I wouldn't put a $300 CPU in a $500 MoBo no matter how good it liiks... personally I like the MSI better as it is more understated.  But if you do "go there", Id get a OLCand replace the  CLC.  It beats the Noc by 2C and the Corsair by 1C ... no mixed metals AND you can connect the on board MoBo VRM Block.  You culd even add another rad and water block for the GFX card as the Swiftech Piump pushes 10 times more water than the typical Corsair.



			https://tpucdn.com/review/swiftech-swiftech-h240x3-drive-aio/images/temp_oc_aida64.png
		


c)  Id test what ya got for the RAM and PSU and only move on if you have problems

d)  case is an aesthetic thing personal to every individual, but I wouldn't pull the trigger w/o looking at the Evolv X


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Jun 4, 2020)

I have both the Phanteks Evolv X and the 011 dynamic XL and the 011 is better hands down when it comes to thermals even with the Shit QL fans I am using on it vs Noctua/ML fans on the Phanteks case.
2080 ti strix OC at stock used to to compare. I can't compare cpu temps because I am not going to do a full rebuild in each case with my 3900X and 9900k lmao.

Both cases are great though and aesthetics just come down to personal preference.

Msi makes a $299 mobo Unify that is night and day better than the $270 Pro Carbon that would be a much better comparison to the Formula.

Also as much as I love TPU reviews their cpu gaming test are GPU benchmarks with a 2080 ti not actual cpu benchmarks. They also don't show 1% lows which i personally care about a lot more than average framerates thankfully this is being implemented for future reviews at some point.

To be fair anything R5 3600 or above will have good 1% lows so it's irrelevant to the OP as he's considering 2 cpu that are even faster.


----------



## nguyen (Jun 4, 2020)

1. CPU: 10700K
2. Main: Gigabyte Z490 Ultra (more expensive boards make zero difference for overclocking on air/water)
3. Ram: Keep the G.SKill Royal kit
4. Cooler: Kraken Z73, looks splendid with 011D case
5. SSD: return your 970 EVO and get a WD Black SN750 1tb nvme
6. PSU: Corsair HX850

OC questions
1. Ram OC: Gigabyte default values for RAM are pretty good, you only need to enable the XMP and manually set the DRAM Voltage, VCCIO and VCCSA and start increasing RAM clocks (check out TPU RAM reviews)
2. CPU OC: Set the CPU Vcore to 1.35V and overclock the 10700K to 5.2 - 5.3Ghz and the CPU Cache to 4.8Ghz, eezy peezy


----------



## ecopsorn (Jun 4, 2020)

@all
For a large reply with quotes, I gotta wait until evening, all day booked with trainings.

Just for the ones telling to wait, I want to make clear again where I'm coming from and where I want to go to.

I do build my own computers since 20 years. Back when I started it and didn't have kids lol I built one every 2 years approximately. Now priorities have shifted and the last computer I built is roughly 5 years old, an i7-4790K 4.00 GHz with a GTX 970 (I think I replaced the GPU once during this time)
The reason why I build one NOW is because my current rig is too slow for video editing and the software even crashes from time to time. Additionally, I would like to get into more gaming again on the computer. Was PS4 focussed the last years. The last years I only played SC2 and D3 on the computer, but with the new one I want to be happy for at least 3 years again, playing modern games. My demand for video editing is also not that high, it is just another hobby of mine. That said I think it's clear that I don't want to wait another half a year or year.
The only reason why I even mentioned Rocket lake is because I've read it will likely be a big change to the current generation. If I will really make the switch and even NEED it for my demands, I cannot tell yet. Time will tell me whether I really will find time to play as much as I want to and have time for my video editing hobby 
So far, for every PC I've built, I built that thing and only changed the GPU when I felt the need about a year or a bit more later. After that, I always built a new one and didn't bother replacing anything else.
Before I started the Ryzen build, I didn't even know that RGB is a thing now and that it can be integrated in Games (Razer/Corsair). That's why I first just bought the Corsair 570X case and thought the RGB is pretty sweet. After I saw the integration in games and when my 5 year old son saw the pretty colors, I immediately got hooked on RGB and I knew that's also one important factor to consider when builting my rig.
I did consider OEM but Computers have always been my hobby and I like to tinker and also enjoy problem solving to a certain extent (like 16 pages thread haha). I won't go OEM this time for sure, I anyway got already parts to use now, the ones I won't send back.

So that's enough for the summary above to get everyone up to speed what my expectations are.

Regarding the "money" situation. I do know that the decisions in my old thread to go with insane expensive Royals ram and the Godlike were stupid. Nobody in this thread suggested me to get those parts, it was my decision, BUT I only did it because I knew I can send them back without money lost. To be honest, if everything would have worked out, I would have kept these expensive parts, but spending 1000$ without a slightest bit of gain was in fact just stupid and that's why I pulled the plug and decided to send everything back.

and just to mention that, getting flamed by Elysium is ok for me, after all he is right that I made stupid decisions in terms of the high priced gear that gave no benefit. But yet again, I did so with a backup plan and yeah it is my money and I decide how I want to spend it. What is for sure though is that Elysium should be banned from these forums for mentioning nazism... that's just a NO GO!!!

so as I said, I will read all your suggestions in the evening and might come back with some more questions regarding it.

thanks to all


----------



## Vayra86 (Jun 4, 2020)

I've been reading the last topic you had, I read @Elysium 's take on that affair, and I also see your own style of posting.

I think you're too obsessed with the idea of having to build a rig now, and ready to head into the next 16 page affair. And I think Elysium has that part of the conclusion exactly right. All the rest, perhaps not quite as hard as he would state it.

But the fact remains, you're being overly nitpicky for an MSDT rig here. Yes, even if you buy top of the bill. The one line that stuck with me was this one;

"But yes I want it all, a quite System, a RGB System as well as a good Performing System . "

You're setting a high bar for yourself and I don't see that one has changed. When expectations are unrealistic, you will never be satisfied. Specify for yourself clearly the use case, and the setup that benefits that use case in the biggest way. Then consider what trade offs you need to get there. Thát is how you get the perfect rig for your own taste. It is also the best approach to set yourself up for success. After all you have already thought about the possible issues that might pop up - the trade offs.

Desperately trying to tick all the boxes you see and read around you is a certain road to insanity. Yes, your temp might be a few C below the reviewer's or Youtuber's example. Yes, your CPU might be a total dud and just keep in spec, yes, RGB fans in general just suck monkey balls 

Another writing on the wall, is that you're still looking at the very same set of options but already willing to start over. Why would the same road not suffice? Why would the Intel one be different? Because Intel? Its not like they're frosty parts lately...

Whatever you choose to do... happy to help because you definitely are genuine in wanting to build something and troubleshoot it


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 4, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> I've been reading the last topic you had, I read @Elysium 's take on that affair, and I also see your own style of posting.
> 
> I think you're too obsessed with the idea of having to build a rig now, and ready to head into the next 16 page affair. And I think Elysium has that part of the conclusion exactly right. All the rest, perhaps not quite as hard as he would state it.
> 
> ...


how is that unrealistic ?

10700f (doesn't even need K)
liquid freezer 2 280mm
a decent case like 460x if he wants fancy

and you're not even spending that much for checking all the boxes


----------



## Vayra86 (Jun 4, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> how is that unrealistic ?
> 
> 10700f (doesn't even need K)
> liquid freezer 2 280mm
> ...



RGB 

EDIT:
The point was, you need to think about what boxes matter most to you. 'Want it all' is a good way to get a little bit of everything right and keep jumping on the latest greatest with no real direction. I agree, you can have a combination of qualities that 'ticks almost everything'... but even something like a case and CPU cooler choice is a pretty influential part of a build. It has more impact than just being a fancy light and box of metal with parts in it. It has airflow qualities, a form factor, etc etc etc.

So, clearly define what you'd like BEST. Then build around that. What I saw last topic was a slow-crawl to a spec list you see when 'average rich kid gets 5K to build PC' pops up on this forum. There is no direction to it.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 4, 2020)

460x is rgb


----------



## Filip Georgievski (Jun 4, 2020)

"But yes I want it all, a quite System, a RGB System as well as a good Performing System . 

Wht would he not be able to achieve all these criterias? It will take a bit of time to do it but eventualy the OP will if he does more reading and research on the hardware he will be buying. 

My very own budget system (check my specs) has these 3 requirements ticked. I wanted the same stuff, and i made it work, so if i made it, he can too.


----------



## Alexandrus (Jun 4, 2020)

First, do not waste the money on the Maximus XII Formula. The Hero will do the same jo for half the price. Not to mention that if you don't want to OC or are only getting a 10700K tops, the Strix Z490-E will be just fine too, or the Z490-F.


----------



## ecopsorn (Jun 4, 2020)

Hehe I know what you mean @Vayra86 - I should make compromises but I think I'm already starting to do that now. I know I want and keep QL fans though Noctua has better airflow, is cheaper and quieter. RGB wins because this is the first computer that doesn't sit under my desk but on my desk hehe. There is always a tradeoff, but what I've learned is not to take the benchmarks too seriously.


----------



## Vayra86 (Jun 4, 2020)

ecopsorn said:


> Hehe I know what you mean @Vayra86 - I should make compromises but I think I'm already starting to do that now. I know I want and keep QL fans though Noctua has better airflow, is cheaper and quieter. RGB wins because this is the first computer that doesn't sit under my desk but on my desk hehe. There is always a tradeoff, but what I've learned is not to take the benchmarks too seriously.



Then your body is ready.

If it is any comfort... check my specs. That is a 8700K doing just 4.7 all core because its so shit. I went into that gunning for 5.0.

About RGB fans...its a fact they don't quite push as much air around at the same noise level as non-RGB fans. A diffuser is also a ring that limits the blade size for example, and it takes some wattage out of the equation. You could also opt for LED strips, I'm rocking a Lightning Node Pro myself. 4 strips, controller, customizable effects that run throughout the case if you'd want. And full power to silent fans. That is 3 boxes ticked


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 4, 2020)

Filip Georgievski said:


> "But yes I want it all, a quite System, a RGB System as well as a good Performing System .
> 
> Wht would he not be able to achieve all these criterias? It will take a bit of time to do it but eventualy the OP will if he does more reading and research on the hardware he will be buying.
> 
> My very own budget system (check my specs) has these 3 requirements ticked. I wanted the same stuff, and i made it work, so if i made it, he can too.


well you just said it's budget,so it's not a top performer.


----------



## _Flare (Jun 4, 2020)

If a person new to DIY-builds steps into the "expensive case with good optics trap" once, okay that how you learn.
But doing it more often seems like the person wants not to reflect its errors.
There are nice unexpensive good looking cases with good airflow, but you need to search, compare and choose yourself.
The better the components, the faster and quiter your system can be. Just buying the most expensive will lead to frustration if your not only looking for a decorative system.
So building the fastest bestlooking 24/7 system worldwide needs some serious experience my friend.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 4, 2020)

got these alpenfhon winboost 3 argb fans recently - believe me,you can do fancy with no tradeoffs at reasonable price.
compared to my ml120s (like ql120 but no rgb) they are quieter at same rpm,push tons of air and remote controlled argb is just gorgeous and very convenient.


----------



## PerfectWave (Jun 4, 2020)

Intel Core i7-10700K or i5-10600K or else? this explain everything ....


----------



## svan71 (Jun 4, 2020)

Wow this is the exact opposite of my last build when I went AMD over Intel.  I feel I will be seeing intel in my rear view mirror for a long time.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 4, 2020)

svan71 said:


> Wow this is the exact opposite of my last build when I went AMD over Intel.  I feel I will be seeing intel in my rear view mirror for a long time.


to each his own,for a high end gaming build there's nothing of better value than 10600kf atm.priced between 3600x and 3700x,can drive a 2080Ti easily.


----------



## Vario (Jun 4, 2020)

If you want a cool system don't buy a system that puts a piece of glass in front of the front fans.


----------



## Assimilator (Jun 4, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> got these alpenfhon winboost 3 argb fans recently - believe me,you can do fancy with no tradeoffs at reasonable price.
> compared to my ml120s (like ql120 but no rgb) they are quieter at same rpm,push tons of air and remote controlled argb is just gorgeous and very convenient.



Upwards of 80 pounds for 3 fans is not a reasonable price in any universe.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 4, 2020)

well for argb fans with a remote it is cheap actually.
and one fan is not always like another fan.if it was we'd be calling $10 fans expensive cause there's cheaper ones.
they're high quality fans,that is why they cost more than medium and low quality fans.


----------



## the54thvoid (Jun 4, 2020)

There appears to be a little bit of disgruntlement going on in here. Can we all make sure if we're contributing to the thread that we remain pleasant? And, also, please remember that we are allowed to disagree with one another, even if that means you might just upset someone else. If you feel offended by someone's post, read it again and ask yourself if it's actually offensive, or just a strongly worded rebuttal. 

Hint, I'm seeing rebuttal's - not offence. But regardless, let's try and keep the thread free from emotive offence and defence.


----------



## 95Viper (Jun 4, 2020)

What the54thvoid said...
And, the next off topic BS gets points and/or thread banning.
Don't post; unless, it is on topic and follows the forum guidelines.

Have a good day


----------



## watzupken (Jun 4, 2020)

I feel when you are building your own computer, there is always a chance you will run into teething issues at some point. While its annoying, this is a reality with DIY rig. I have setup multiple computers since more than a decade ago, and while it was challenging getting my first Ryzen rig to work (which I managed to narrow down to ram incompatibility), every subsequent Ryzen rig (3 more) worked perfectly fine. So if you want a painless experience, then objectively, I would suggest you pay someone to do the job for you. Not to say that we are not capable of fixing it up on our own, but we may not have the spare parts and/or time to troubleshoot when something goes south. Just my 2 cents worth. 

Anyway, hopefully you can get your Intel rig up and running.


----------



## dgianstefani (Jun 4, 2020)

It's not unrealistic lmao to want some RGB on top of a quiet and fast system.

CPU 10700k definitely - 6 core parts won't age well whether you're keeping or selling later.
Mobo - MSI Unify (fantastic VRM without all the bells and whistles) or ASUS ROG Maximus XII Formula (10GBe).
RAM - 3600 kits are nice, but Intel has more headroom for frequency. I would return both the kits you have since you are still within the return window. Grab a Viper 4400mhz kit or any kit that can comfortably do 4133 with 16/17cas and tight subtimings.
I would return the 1tb 970 evo plus and swap it for a much cheaper 1tb sata - when rocket lake arrives grab the 980 evo/pro which will be PCIe4 (properly, as it's from Samsung), you can then use the 1tb sata as secondary, with the NVMe as your primary, this will result in a faster overall boot drive, and you might even be able to only run SSD storage in the entire system, which is a boon.

At this point you should have saved several hundred $ compared to what you already had.

With those $ -
Grab a Seasonic TX750 - a _really _nice PSU, so efficient the fan is almost never activated.
Some Noctua NF-A12x25 fans - enough so that the only case fans in your case are those.
These two changes alone will quieten down your system by a lot.

If you want to go quieter - return both your CPU coolers - go for a Noctua U12A and tune it so fan speeds never go above 65%.
Swap the stock cooler on your 2070s with the Morpheus II, along with two more A12x25 fans. This will lead to lower temperatures _and_ lower noise (therefore greater boost).

If you make it so the only fans running in your system are NF-A12x25, and none of them are going above 65% rpm, your system will be 24/7 silent through a case (source: personal experience).

The only other upgrade I would consider is moving to a 2080s, but that isn't really wise considering ampere and RX refresh are just around the corner.


----------



## P4-630 (Jun 4, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> Grab a Seasonic TX750 - a _really _nice PSU, so efficient the fan is almost never activated.



33.1 dB(A)  @ 300 Watt load.








						Vermogende voedingen: 44 700-850W PSU's getest
					

De core-race is in volle gang en in combinatie met een dikke videokaart is een high-end systeem de laatste jaren alleen maar meer gaan verbruiken. Tijd...




					nl.hardware.info


----------



## Alexandrus (Jun 4, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> It's not unrealistic lmao to want some RGB on top of a quiet and fast system.
> 
> CPU 10700k definitely - 6 core parts won't age well whether you're keeping or selling later.
> Mobo - MSI Unify (fantastic VRM without all the bells and whistles) or ASUS ROG Maximus XII Formula (10GBe).
> ...


That's just silly, paying 700 euros for a motherboard just because it has useless 10Gbps LAN, when a 10Gbps add-in card is 50$.
Buying a MSI Unify is a good choice, though, simply because it looks like the OP has an MSI video card, so syncing all the RGB with one software is safer and easier. That is the only reason to go MSI, really, since there is nothing fantastic about that VRM, it's regular VRM for a Z490, nothing special or great about it.
The rest of your advice follows the same trend, it seems. Stupid fast DDR4 on Intel gives you very little advantage for very much trouble in running it as intended, and for quite a price increase.
Also, D15>>>U12A, and I mean...much. It also looks nicer in the chromax.black variant. Don't let the reviews fool you, the D15 can actually keep the fans at 20-40% PWM in most gaming and regular usage scenarios, almost inaudible, while the U12A ...not so much.
The TX750 PSU is not as quiet as you might imagine, when the fan spins up, randomly, for no reason, it's annoyingly loud. That being said, all modern decent PSUs have zeroRPM funtion, so ... yeah, any GOld or Platinum PSU will do without braking the bank going for Titanium.


----------



## Vayra86 (Jun 4, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> It's not unrealistic lmao to want some RGB on top of a quiet and fast system.
> 
> CPU 10700k definitely - 6 core parts won't age well whether you're keeping or selling later.
> Mobo - MSI Unify (fantastic VRM without all the bells and whistles) or ASUS ROG Maximus XII Formula (10GBe).
> ...



Good but expensive options. Cost effective this is not, but for chasing the upper 5% could work. Still,, these parts and then just air to cool it, seems out of order to me. You won't extract maximum on air.

Realistically though if you REALLY want to chase the upper 5% of perf for the parts you buy, you will need custom water. Lower temps make for the biggest improvement especially on GPU. This brings a new dilemma, because you will be considering pump and fan noise in a different way too.

Personally on Intel I'd keep the board on the cheap side because the baseline VRM section is just fine, buy the board based on features you need instead. Good RGB sync can be one of those definitely if that is a desire. Cooling: low RPM case fans, as large as you can fit. Dual stack tower on the CPU if air. Don't overspend on RAM.

Silence: get a case with sound dampening - any windowed option is off the table if you want quiet. Think along the lines of a Fractal Define R - and that right there is an example of problems when trying to tick all boxes - after all, no window = fancy RGB not visible. With a window, it really comes down to picking fans that work well at low RPM, and keeping the RPM as low as possible throughout the case. For GPU that is a problem.


----------



## Alexandrus (Jun 4, 2020)

Funny thing : glass, as in the tempered glass that makes up the side panels of most modern cases, is much more noise dampening than any steel side panel. So it's actually the exact opposite as to what the above is saying.


----------



## the54thvoid (Jun 4, 2020)

Alexandrus said:


> Funny thing : glass, as in the tempered glass that makes up the side panels of most modern cases, is much more noise dampening than any steel side panel. So it's actually the exact opposite as to what the above is saying.



Why would you even say that?






						Is Tempered Glass More Soundproof? – Soundproof Central
					






					soundproofcentral.com
				




Do your research. The steel side panels of noise-dampened cases are also lined with other sound-dampening material. Tempered glass is not.


----------



## Nater (Jun 4, 2020)

Alexandrus said:


> Funny thing : glass, as in the tempered glass that makes up the side panels of most modern cases, is much more noise dampening than any steel side panel. So it's actually the exact opposite as to what the above is saying.



I can't believe that.  Maybe if it was double-pane gas filled and sealed all the way around.


----------



## dgianstefani (Jun 4, 2020)

P4-630 said:


> 33.1 dB(A)  @ 300 Watt load.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There's a button on the back that activates hybrid mode, when that's on, the fan only switches on when it's needed (600w+ power draw). 33dBa is just what it sounds like when it's on, and is still extremely quiet.



Vayra86 said:


> Good but expensive options. Cost effective this is not, but for chasing the upper 5% could work. Still,, these parts and then just air to cool it, seems out of order to me. You won't extract maximum on air.
> 
> Realistically though if you REALLY want to chase the upper 5% of perf for the parts you buy, you will need custom water. Lower temps make for the biggest improvement especially on GPU. This brings a new dilemma, because you will be considering pump and fan noise in a different way too.
> 
> ...



You don't know what you're talking about.
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/batman-returns.257906/ - 5.8/5.2ghz on air.
Talking about overspending on ram when I'm recommending he return the trident royal and buy actual performance for cheaper.
Thinking gpu water cooling is the only way to get low gpu temps.








						Raijintek Morpheus Review
					

Rajintek's new Morpheus VGA cooler is compatible with the Radeon R9 290X and GTX 780/Ti. It provides excellent temperatures and whisper-quiet noise levels, which will be a godsend for users of the Radeon R9 290X reference design who are plagued by high temperatures and noise.




					www.techpowerup.com
				




Overall the build I recommended would be cheaper than his original 3800x build while being quieter, faster and with RGB. All things OP requested.



Alexandrus said:


> That's just silly, paying 700 euros for a motherboard just because it has useless 10Gbps LAN, when a 10Gbps add-in card is 50$.
> Buying a MSI Unify is a good choice, though, simply because it looks like the OP has an MSI video card, so syncing all the RGB with one software is safer and easier. That is the only reason to go MSI, really, since there is nothing fantastic about that VRM, it's regular VRM for a Z490, nothing special or great about it.
> The rest of your advice follows the same trend, it seems. Stupid fast DDR4 on Intel gives you very little advantage for very much trouble in running it as intended, and for quite a price increase.
> Also, D15>>>U12A, and I mean...much. It also looks nicer in the chromax.black variant. Don't let the reviews fool you, the D15 can actually keep the fans at 20-40% PWM in most gaming and regular usage scenarios, almost inaudible, while the U12A ...not so much.
> The TX750 PSU is not as quiet as you might imagine, when the fan spins up, randomly, for no reason, it's annoyingly loud. That being said, all modern decent PSUs have zeroRPM funtion, so ... yeah, any GOld or Platinum PSU will do without braking the bank going for Titanium.


Maximus VII formula is a
500 not a 700
board, and it's better in other ways other than just 10GBe lol. Just because it's out of your budget.... Plus it's what the OP originally wanted, and it's a solid choice so...
I have the tx750 and its silent when you enable hybrid mode.
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/msi-meg-z490-unify/16.html "top tier vrm performance" I suggest you do your research


----------



## Vayra86 (Jun 4, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> There's a button on the back that activates hybrid mode, when that's on, the fan only switches on when it's needed (600w+ power draw). 33dBa is just what it sounds like when it's on, and is still extremely quiet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We don't need to butt heads on this, its just different points of view. You're comparing apples and oranges, that is not a 10th gen CPU and you're linking a golden CPU example here. Way to get the right impression across for an average build for someone else! Very nice. How do you set someone up for the next dissappointment 101.

I mean... what brought you to link this:




which is a special edition, best bin version of the 8700K... to discuss a regular bin 10th gen CPU. Best of it all is that you have a *8700K that required a delid to get 5.2 Ghz.* Can you add some irony on top? I doubt it.

In the real world, most CPUs are not binned quite so well and the fact remains temps enable better clocks/voltages, so lower temps increase your chances of a good outcome. So IF you do chase the top end, air is not the _best_ guarantee you can get there. It will get you the 95%. But the top 5%? Only if you are very lucky.

The other points I'm not contesting at all... its just different approaches to what you want to build, isn't it? But its not recommended to mix and match between those approaches, because the end result is bad balance in budget/performance/result. In a similar way you don't pair an i3 with a 2080ti.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 4, 2020)

P4-630 said:


> 33.1 dB(A)  @ 300 Watt load.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thanks for this test ! love the what's quietest at 500w chart !!!
just wish there was superflower psus on this list.


----------



## P4-630 (Jun 4, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> 33dBa is just what it sounds like when it's on, and is still extremely quiet.



Well my Focus Plus FX 750 does 26,4 dB(A) with a 500 Watt load.


----------



## dgianstefani (Jun 4, 2020)

P4-630 said:


> Well my Focus Plus FX 750 does 26,4 dB(A) with a 500 Watt load.



Cute. My TX750 does 0dBA up until 600w.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 4, 2020)

P4-630 said:


> Well my Focus Plus FX 750 does 26,4 dB(A) with a 500 Watt load.


these BQs are ahead of the whole lot.


----------



## dgianstefani (Jun 4, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> We don't need to butt heads on this, its just different points of view. You're comparing apples and oranges, that is not a 10th gen CPU and you're linking a golden CPU example here. Way to get the right impression across for an average build for someone else! Very nice. How do you set someone up for the next dissappointment 101.
> 
> I mean... what brought you to link this:
> View attachment 157837
> ...


IRL, as you're a fan of quoting, has the 10th gen silicone as better overclockers than previous 8th and 9th, that also run cooler due to the thinner die height.


----------



## Vayra86 (Jun 4, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> IRL, as you're a fan of quoting, has the 10th gen silicone as better overclockers than previous 8th and 9th, that also run cooler due to the thinner die height.



Did OP ever specify he wants to delid? Stop projecting your use case on the world. Stick to advice.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 4, 2020)

imo better get one with a silent fan than semi passive that runs warm and once it'll go,it'll go like crazy.



dgianstefani said:


> Cute. My TX750 does 0dBA up until 600w.


that does not seems right.


----------



## P4-630 (Jun 4, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> that does not seems right.



According his system specs he has a "Seasonic Prime Titanium 600w Fanless "

If it's the Seasonic Prime TX750 it's 33,6 dB(A) with a 500 Watt load:


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 4, 2020)

which costs more than a 1000w unit


----------



## dgianstefani (Jun 4, 2020)

I have two systems. One is newer, and one is my original system with the fanless one.
Instead of quoting the same statistic again and again - https://seasonic.com/prime-tx - hybrid mode with silent operation until wattage target is hit, when fan starts to turn on.

at 94% conversion efficiency+, it doesn't "go like crazy", but then again, you have a history of having strong opinions on things you don't actually own, don't you.



cucker tarlson said:


> which costs more than a 1000w unit


Now who's projecting use cases onto the world? It costs what it costs, and is the most highly reviewed PSU series on the market, for a reason.

I could go and buy a 1000w if I needed 1000w, but who does?

Derbauer delidded to take actual measurements of the die heights with his tools.

If you actually watched the video you would see that the 10 series runs cooler even when stock. 10700k is cooler than 9900k, 10600k cooler than 8700k.

BTW silence and fan are mutually exclusive - if it has a fan, it will make some noise.

Also BTW, I had my 8700k at 5.2 before delidding, I delidded to take the temps from high 80s to high 70s, why not?


----------



## Viruzz (Jun 4, 2020)

ecopsorn said:


> Hi guys
> We have recently filled a thread with 16 pages, trying to get my Ryzen 3800X build up and running, see this thread.



Hello, I think i can give you a proper Honest advice because im in same situation as you, I only buy the BEST.
And then I buy it every generation, I build a new PC every single generation.
I completely understand people like us, some people just jealous.

Here is what you do, you take the chunk of money you can spend, and then you buy the best parts you can afford, if you can afford 10900K, do it, and next year buy the new top CPU, why not, it workes for me for the last 10 years, if you have money left, buy extra SSD's, buy best GPU you can etc. But dont over spent, i mean if you can say spent 2000-3000 or 5000$ on PC, without hurting your finances and your life, then do it, but always spent the sum you put aside, not more.

One of the reasons is because TOP end hardware, especially Intel CPU, stay in value for months and even YEARS after they EOL, next year youll be able to ebay it for at LEAST MINIMUM 80% of its value, but if you lucky then 90% and use the money to buy the new high end CPU.
AMD CPUs on the otehr hand are "Trash" in the second hand market, because AMD devalues them [they lower the prices every 6 month, cretins], people that paid full price for 1800x could sell it for 1/4 price, people that got new 2600 and so on, now can sell them for less then half the price.
So in this regards, if you buy Intel and top end Nvidia GPUs, youll get MOST of your money back on the second hand market.

build threads are good for people that need to save up and optimize, but if you can buy almost any PC hardware that you want, do it, youll have lots of fun.
If i list my own Gaming PC parts here, people will flip, they only seen such builds on YT and only sometimes


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 4, 2020)

Viruzz said:


> Hello, I think i can give you a proper Honest advice because im in same situation as you, I only buy the BEST.
> And then I buy it every generation, I build a new PC every single generation.
> I completely understand people like us, some people just jealous.
> 
> ...


you only need the best if you're looking for the absoulte best performance.
give me 85% of that at half the cost.

imo the best way is just buy what you need when you need it.


----------



## dgianstefani (Jun 4, 2020)

It is not for you to decide what others need.


----------



## phanbuey (Jun 4, 2020)

Viruzz said:


> Hello, I think i can give you a proper Honest advice because im in same situation as you, I only buy the BEST.
> And then I buy it every generation, I build a new PC every single generation.
> I completely understand people like us, some people just jealous.
> 
> ...



There's definitely truth to this.  I tend to buy upper mid-range bang for buck CPUs, but always the high end videocards since they always tend to sell high after I am done and I can put that money towards the next one (also they just matter so much more).  Mid range cards lose almost as much value over time so I pay a very slight premium comparatively to coast on the best cards out there from gen to gen...


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 4, 2020)

phanbuey said:


> There's definitely truth to this.  I tend to buy upper mid-range bang for buck CPUs, but always the high end videocards since they always tend to sell high after I am done and I can put that money towards the next one (also they just matter so much more).  Mid range cards lose almost as much value over time so I pay a very slight premium comparatively to coast on the best cards out there from gen to gen...


it is a good strategy.


----------



## ecopsorn (Jun 4, 2020)

I'm back after a busy day at work.
First of all, I'm amazed by this forum. In some other tech forums, u gotta wait 3 days for one reply. In this forum, we get 3 pages again over night. Don't blame me for a thread that ends up in 16 pages, in most of the discussions between you guys I'm not even involved , but your arguments will help me to decide in the end.

So let's get quoting:


Fouquin said:


> 10600K/KF is a great performance point with decent DRAM. 4.8GHz with 3600 CL14 quick and dirty tuning will give you a very good boost.


Thanks for the quick and dirty advice hehe



TheLostSwede said:


> I'd keep the Corsair kit, assuming it was cheaper.
> 
> Easy way to OC with Intel, change the multiplier.
> 
> Maybe try Gigabyte this time around, considering you've had a bad run with Asus and MSI?


I'm not dissing Asus nor MSI yet for the motherboard choice only because I seemed to be unlucky with the last boards. I'm still open to suggestions, but an Asus or the MSI Unify are currently in discussion. As someone mentioned, I do have a MSI GPU so syncing that to the board in terms of RGB is good, but Asus can easily sync with my whole Corsair RGB setup, so I think I could go either way in terms of RGB and I think in terms of "which have the better boards" it seems pretty equal. From the Bios point of view, I did enjoy Asus much more than MSI, was much cleaner somehow.



sil3ntearth said:


> 10600k for gaming, 10700k if you want a little more headroom for gaming + streaming + anything else.
> 
> People can pick apart everything if they want about every little decision, but I don't think anyone could be blamed for wanting to try something else after that level of frustration.  No matter what you go with, AMD or Intel, it will do what you want it to.  With Intel, you just may be getting a bit less for the money.


Thanks man, I will likely end up with one of them but I really haven't had the time to read up on the "non K" variants that people are mentioning.


A Computer Guy said:


> Just some thoughts...
> 
> There is always the chance of running into issues with building your own system especially the closer you get to the bleeding edge.
> 
> ...


@A Computer Guy , I always valued your posts, thanks for the constructive input. I would advise the same thing to me lol but I'm stubborn and I want to celebrate my build once and be happy that I did achieve the goal lol.

Regarding case, the XL has much more space according to the info I've received so far and the reviews I watched.
Thanks for the cooler advice, still haven't decided on that one yet, that's probably the hardest decision for me because it is the one item with the most tradeoffs in every direction (noise, looks, temps)



oxrufiioxo said:


> I doubt you'd actually need rocket Lake if you grab a 10700k pretty sure it'll last you through the next console generation as a viable CPU. The 10600K is also great but definitely pair it with the better of your two memory kits it scales pretty well all the way to 4000 CL15.
> 
> I would be buying that Formula board also if I was going 10th gen. I like Asus on intel even more than I like Asus on AMD and After getting the hero I plan on sticking with Asus for both AMD/Intel unless one of the other board makers blows me away with something which is doubtful. Not a huge fan of gigabytes lineup other than the Elite its a really good board for around 220 but it's not a board I would actually buy. Kinda a shame Asrock Z490 lineup seems to suck ass.
> 
> ...



Hey buddy. I will likely end up with the 10700k, but the memory situation still give me the most headaches. Lots of guys have given good advice already again, it seems like higher frequency kits up to 4400 are the common recommendation, but yet again I'm torn between RGB and speed. For the rams I really cannot at all tell what general performance boost one frequency or cl over the other would give me.
For example the Viper 4400 kit has been recommended two times in this thread and I could get them for 200$ (2x8 GB), but it doesn't have RGB .
Another thing is that I wanted to go with 32GB just to have a little more room for video editing (if that's justified).
So here I'm in need of the most advice still, 32GB kits are much harder to find than 16GB kits here in Switzerland. 
Ah and there is the good old question between if it matters performance wise to get 2x16 vs 4x8 for example - I'm not sure if the same rules apply as for Ryzen.



John Naylor said:


> Not much to go on regarding  what the box will do other than gaming.   But I would have left AMD outta the picture  where video editing is involved.  Im only going to use TPU reviews for consistency
> 
> 1.  Gaming (@1080p):
> 
> ...



Thanks a bunch for your time and in depth answer. I can take a lot out of it.
OLC is not on the table for me yet, it might get another project in the future once, but to go that road, I think a little more experience than I have wouldn't hurt hehe.
Regarding the ram, since I can still return the ram, but soon can't anymore I'm really reconsidering keeping the royals if I can get better performance ram for less money.



oxrufiioxo said:


> I have both the Phanteks Evolv X and the 011 dynamic XL and the 011 is better hands down when it comes to thermals even with the Shit QL fans I am using on it vs Noctua/ML fans on the Phanteks case.
> 2080 ti strix OC at stock used to to compare. I can't compare cpu temps because I am not going to do a full rebuild in each case with my 3900X and 9900k lmao.
> 
> Both cases are great though and aesthetics just come down to personal preference.
> ...


I'm set on the 011D XL. oxrufiioxo's pics of his rig are too beautiful to not do the same lol.



nguyen said:


> Corsair HX850


will consider that with the other suggestions here in the thread and do some reading on my own.
For the RM850 I only paid 120$, and I'm waiting for the reply of the vendor if this one is returnable. If it's not I'm not sure if it makes sense to switch to another.



Vayra86 said:


> I've been reading the last topic you had, I read @Elysium 's take on that affair, and I also see your own style of posting.
> 
> I think you're too obsessed with the idea of having to build a rig now, and ready to head into the next 16 page affair. And I think Elysium has that part of the conclusion exactly right. All the rest, perhaps not quite as hard as he would state it.
> 
> ...


appreciate your honesty 



Alexandrus said:


> First, do not waste the money on the Maximus XII Formula. The Hero will do the same jo for half the price. Not to mention that if you don't want to OC or are only getting a 10700K tops, the Strix Z490-E will be just fine too, or the Z490-F.


Thanks, I know that the other Asus options are also solid for my use case.



_Flare said:


> If a person new to DIY-builds steps into the "expensive case with good optics trap" once, okay that how you learn.
> But doing it more often seems like the person wants not to reflect its errors.


Regarding that, also for my old case Corsair 570X I did watch a couple of reviews and none of them had to say anything bad about it or it's temperature performance. For my old build, temperature issues were one big thing though so not only because of that but also because I like the looks of the 011D XL much better now, I'm gonna switch to that one.



Vario said:


> If you want a cool system don't buy a system that puts a piece of glass in front of the front fans.



Hehe, same as above, I might have not reviewed enough on the 570X and primarily bought it because of the looks



watzupken said:


> I feel when you are building your own computer, there is always a chance you will run into teething issues at some point. While its annoying, this is a reality with DIY rig. I have setup multiple computers since more than a decade ago, and while it was challenging getting my first Ryzen rig to work (which I managed to narrow down to ram incompatibility), every subsequent Ryzen rig (3 more) worked perfectly fine. So if you want a painless experience, then objectively, I would suggest you pay someone to do the job for you. Not to say that we are not capable of fixing it up on our own, but we may not have the spare parts and/or time to troubleshoot when something goes south. Just my 2 cents worth.
> 
> Anyway, hopefully you can get your Intel rig up and running.



Exactly. Hey if I wouldn't still enjoy the progress and also very much love this forum and the great help all you guys give me, I would have gone with an OEM one. So it's the fault of you guys that I'm going to build another one and go an all your nerves .
No honestly, I love the challenge and it's hell a lot of fun.



Alexandrus said:


> That's just silly, paying 700 euros for a motherboard just because it has useless 10Gbps LAN, when a 10Gbps add-in card is 50$.
> Buying a MSI Unify is a good choice, though, simply because it looks like the OP has an MSI video card, so syncing all the RGB with one software is safer and easier. That is the only reason to go MSI, really, since there is nothing fantastic about that VRM, it's regular VRM for a Z490, nothing special or great about it.
> The rest of your advice follows the same trend, it seems. Stupid fast DDR4 on Intel gives you very little advantage for very much trouble in running it as intended, and for quite a price increase.
> Also, D15>>>U12A, and I mean...much. It also looks nicer in the chromax.black variant. Don't let the reviews fool you, the D15 can actually keep the fans at 20-40% PWM in most gaming and regular usage scenarios, almost inaudible, while the U12A ...not so much.
> The TX750 PSU is not as quiet as you might imagine, when the fan spins up, randomly, for no reason, it's annoyingly loud. That being said, all modern decent PSUs have zeroRPM funtion, so ... yeah, any GOld or Platinum PSU will do without braking the bank going for Titanium.


I'm still following the PSU discussion closely, it gets very interesting here in the forum before I decide to ditch my RM850 and go for something else. Keep the discussion going hehe



Vayra86 said:


> Good but expensive options. Cost effective this is not, but for chasing the upper 5% could work. Still,, these parts and then just air to cool it, seems out of order to me. You won't extract maximum on air.
> 
> Realistically though if you REALLY want to chase the upper 5% of perf for the parts you buy, you will need custom water. Lower temps make for the biggest improvement especially on GPU. This brings a new dilemma, because you will be considering pump and fan noise in a different way too.
> 
> ...


Yes RGB sync for Mobo is a priority, but I mentioned above, I think I won't go wrong with Asus or MSI in that regard. I have a Corsair ecosystem with commander pro and all those things, so Asus can be hooked up, and I have a MSI GPU that would go well with an MSI board. MSI is also able to integrate into Razer Synapse 3 - all my peripherals are Razer. So in the end I only want Razer and Corsair running.



dgianstefani said:


> There's a button on the back that activates hybrid mode, when that's on, the fan only switches on when it's needed (600w+ power draw). 33dBa is just what it sounds like when it's on, and is still extremely quiet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for having my back lol, no seriously good advice. I also think that GPU cooling is out of my league but I will read into it, thanks.
10 GBe is actually a feature I wouldn't mind to have. Next year I'm going to upgrade my server which than will have a 10GBe interface. That would be fun indeed hehe.



Vayra86 said:


> Did OP ever specify he wants to delid? Stop projecting your use case on the world. Stick to advice.


No way, will never delid lol



Viruzz said:


> Hello, I think i can give you a proper Honest advice because im in same situation as you, I only buy the BEST.
> And then I buy it every generation, I build a new PC every single generation.
> I completely understand people like us, some people just jealous.
> 
> ...


That cranked me up haha. 

--------- end quotes

One more quote i forgot, I cannot find it anymore, but somebody suggested to me something in regards to the SSD and PCIE-4. Did I miss something, I thought the Z490 boards only have PCIE-3?



phanbuey said:


> There's definitely truth to this.  I tend to buy upper mid-range bang for buck CPUs, but always the high end videocards since they always tend to sell high after I am done and I can put that money towards the next one (also they just matter so much more).  Mid range cards lose almost as much value over time so I pay a very slight premium comparatively to coast on the best cards out there from gen to gen...


If I get serious with PC gaming again, I will do the same hehe. Waiting for Ampere.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jun 4, 2020)

Steve Burke at GamersNexus proved that a 10600K is the best gaming option for your money right now. The 10700K is pointless and the 10900K is way too expensive. You certainly shouldn't get that stupid $500 ROG Formula motherboard for it though, it's a hardcore board for people who have reached the limits of overclocking and know exactly what they're doing. I'm sorry, but that's definitely not you. Just get a beginner-friendly Gigabyte UD board at $150-200.

More importantly, the new *10th Gen Intel stuff is even flakier than the Ryzen you gave up on.* No matter what you think about AMD, Intel Socket1200 is currently much worse. Sources - GamersNexus, JayzTwoCents, Actually Hardcore Overclocking, Linus Tech Tips, KitGuru.

Right now is also an absolutely terrible time to buy anything. There's a shortage of PSUs, GPUs, and motherboards thanks to COVID, so availability is bad, pricing is high. Additionally we are expecting Zen3, Navi2, Ampere out by Q4 this year. No matter what you build now it's going to be second-best very shortly and you'll likely have buyer's remorse.


----------



## ecopsorn (Jun 4, 2020)

*Mid-Thread-Summary-Post*
Oh man I did a lot of quoting lol. I think it makes sense for everyone in here that I give a short rundown on what we do not need to discuss anymore and where I'd still love some more discussion.

Things I can decide on my own now

CPU
Motherboard
RGB fans
Case

Things I'm still uncertain

Rams
PSU
Eventually cooler, still a coin toss for me between my Noctua or H150i


----------



## Viruzz (Jun 4, 2020)

Alexandrus said:


> That's just silly, paying 700 euros for a motherboard just because it has useless 10Gbps LAN, when a 10Gbps add-in card is 50$.



Please show me where you can buy 10G Aquantia for less then 90$, even on Aliexpress a chinese model was 75$ when it was avalible
50$? Ill take one please





ecopsorn said:


> *Mid-Thread-Summary-Post*
> Oh man I did a lot of quoting lol. I think it makes sense for everyone in here that I give a short rundown on what we do not need to discuss anymore and where I'd still love some more discussion.
> 
> Things I can decide on my own now
> ...



I recommend Corsair HX1200i, its 300$ directly from corsair, it was more expensive last year.
Its what I have, love it, its half digital PSU, it has software control, no fan mode, you can control if you want Single Rail mode or Split rail mode, you can control the fan or as i said use zero RPM mode and in windows you can see how much power you use, very interesting to know and outright godsend for benchmarks.

I have this kit of RAM, looks insane and has compatibility [QVL tested] for Intel, Ryzen and TR








						F4-3600C16Q-64GTZNC - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
					

Trident Z Neo DDR4-3600 CL16-19-19-39 1.35V 64GB (4x16GB) Engineered and optimized for full compatibility on the latest AMD Ryzen platforms, Trident Z Neo brings unparalleled DRAM memory performance and vibrant RGB lighting to any gaming PC or workstation with latest AMD Ryzen CPUs and AMD DDR4...




					www.gskill.com
				





If you dont want to build a custom loop, there are new AIO models with digital screen, that show you CPU temps, water temps etc, very useful if you have glass windowed case, you can just look a side and see your temps.
Im using a custom loop thou

BTW, if you have money left, grab a 120GB Optane, just for windows 10 install and software, its anotehr world, it actually feels faster compared to NVMe SSD, of course its optional, but its one of those nice to have things.


----------



## ecopsorn (Jun 4, 2020)

Viruzz said:


> I recommend Corsair HX1200i, its 300$ directly from corsair, it was more expensive last year.


850 would be sufficient for me, I read that it’s not good to have a too high wattage PSU if not needed. But HXi would certainly fit my Corsair ecosystem


----------



## A Computer Guy (Jun 4, 2020)

ecopsorn said:


> *Mid-Thread-Summary-Post*
> Oh man I did a lot of quoting lol. I think it makes sense for everyone in here that I give a short rundown on what we do not need to discuss anymore and where I'd still love some more discussion.
> 
> Things I can decide on my own now
> ...



Don't forget about custom cables! https://cablemod.com/


----------



## Viruzz (Jun 4, 2020)

ecopsorn said:


> 850 would be sufficient for me, I read that it’s not good to have a too high wattage PSU if not needed. But HXi would certainly fit my Corsair ecosystem



PSUs are the MOST Efficient at exactly the 50% load.
In any case if you look at the article I posted and their graph the difference is 3% to 5% here or there, so its meaningless really.
dont forget that PSU can stay with you for years to come, if you make a new build/new look, all you need now is just set of new cables and keep the old PSU.

Here is the article about PSU efficiency if you interested.





						SilverStone
					

Founded in 2003, SilverStone is an established leader in its field, with an elite team of engineers; we started our quest of providing products that create inspirations.  We have since expanded the lines of products as well as types of products we produce, giving our customers a wide selection...




					www.silverstonetek.com
				




but if you insist, they have 850W and 750W models:

850W model 225$ https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categ...upply-Units/hxi-series-config/p/CP-9020073-NA
750W model 205$ https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categ...upply-Units/hxi-series-config/p/CP-9020072-NA

If your not from USA, use the country change at the bottom of the page.

I also got a set of cables from Cable Mods like *A Computer Guy *recommends, they have plug and play cables that plug directly into PSU, not cheap extenders, but full replacement.


----------



## ecopsorn (Jun 5, 2020)

A Computer Guy said:


> Don't forget about custom cables! https://cablemod.com/


Thanks, have planned that hehe. We do have a German supplier of custom cables where I can order from. Borders to Germany from Switzerland open on June 15th. The site is caseking.de I hope they have similar cables as cablemod.com have. First time I checked though, it looked like they are adapters and not complete cables. Is that bad or wayne?



Viruzz said:


> PSUs are the MOST Efficient at exactly the 50% load.
> In any case if you look at the article I posted and their graph the difference is 3% to 5% here or there, so its meaningless really.
> dont forget that PSU can stay with you for years to come, if you make a new build/new look, all you need now is just set of new cables and keep the old PSU.
> 
> ...


Thanks, haven't had time to check yet but will.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 5, 2020)

ecopsorn said:


> Thanks, have planned that hehe. We do have a German supplier of custom cables where I can order from. Borders to Germany from Switzerland open on June 15th. The site is caseking.de I hope they have similar cables as cablemod.com have. First time I checked though, it looked like they are adapters and not complete cables. Is that bad or wayne?
> 
> 
> Thanks, haven't had time to check yet but will.



Extenders aren't a problem if you have an ATX case of decent enough size and cable management provisions where you can just hide the excess of stock cables and only show the extensions coming through the grommet holes. I still prefer full cable sets though, for the convenience of it and for having two entirely separate sets of cables that you can switch out if need be.

I have a roughly 3.5 year old custom color and length set on my SF600, which you can see on older pics on my thread in the M1. I also have a blue set that's a stock replacement set for Seasonic units, on my current TJ08 build with the Focus Plus Platinum. Both are pretty nice. I got my blue set recently on sale for about $45 USD; Cablemod may still have some sets on clearance for your specific power supply.

As for stock replacement sets, Cablemod has the regular sets (which I have, not sure what they're called) and the more expensive sets with cable combs to make wires look more uniform.

Get the build done first before you worry about aesthetics. Make sure everything works with the PSU stock cables, then you can start making things look prim and proper.


----------



## ecopsorn (Jun 5, 2020)

Thanks @tabascosauz good recommendation. I just realized that the German vendor also gets the supplies directly from cablemod. On weekend I’ll have time to do some more research on components.



dgianstefani said:


> I would return the 1tb 970 evo plus and swap it for a much cheaper 1tb sata - when rocket lake arrives grab the 980 evo/pro which will be PCIe4 (properly, as it's from Samsung), you can then use the 1tb sata as secondary, with the NVMe as your primary, this will result in a faster overall boot drive, and you might even be able to only run SSD storage in the entire system, which is a boon.


@dgianstefani But Z490 boards only have PCIE3, I don't get the PCIE4 ssd recommendation.


----------



## dgianstefani (Jun 6, 2020)

ecopsorn said:


> @dgianstefani But Z490 boards only have PCIE3, I don't get the PCIE4 ssd recommendation.


"when rocket lake arrives" even if you don't upgrade cpu Gen4 drives still work in gen 3 slots so you would still max out if you didn't also upgrade the cpu to take advantage of gen 4.


----------



## ecopsorn (Jun 10, 2020)

Hey guys, so I was reading into the PSU wattage thing and somehow I can't wrap my mind around the 1200W unit. Still can't believe the graph that Viruzz showed. There are countless other articles that won't recommend a 1200W unit for a "simple" 1 GPU rig. I actually would be able to get a Cooler Master V1200 from friend for just 50$ but I'm still puzzled whether "efficiency" is anything near important for modern PSUs. According to the BeQuite PSU Calculator, my rig pulls about 650W max.


----------



## A Computer Guy (Jun 10, 2020)

ecopsorn said:


> Hey guys, so I was reading into the PSU wattage thing and somehow I can't wrap my mind around the 1200W unit. Still can't believe the graph that Viruzz showed. There are countless other articles that won't recommend a 1200W unit for a "simple" 1 GPU rig. I actually would be able to get a Cooler Master V1200 from friend for just 50$ but I'm still puzzled whether "efficiency" is anything near important for modern PSUs. According to the BeQuite PSU Calculator, my rig pulls about 650W max.



With current prices and supply as they currently are, for only $50 what are you waiting for?
https://www.anandtech.com/show/8728/cooler-master-v1200-platinum-power-supply-review/5


----------



## Viruzz (Jun 18, 2020)

ecopsorn said:


> Hey guys, so I was reading into the PSU wattage thing and somehow I can't wrap my mind around the 1200W unit. Still can't believe the graph that Viruzz showed. There are countless other articles that won't recommend a 1200W unit for a "simple" 1 GPU rig. I actually would be able to get a Cooler Master V1200 from friend for just 50$ but I'm still puzzled whether "efficiency" is anything near important for modern PSUs. According to the BeQuite PSU Calculator, my rig pulls about 650W max.



That graph is from PSU manufacturer [SilverStone], I think they know what they talking about.


----------



## Caring1 (Jun 18, 2020)

ecopsorn said:


> Hey guys, so I was reading into the PSU wattage thing and somehow I can't wrap my mind around the 1200W unit. Still can't believe the graph that Viruzz showed. There are countless other articles that won't recommend a 1200W unit for a "simple" 1 GPU rig. I actually would be able to get a Cooler Master V1200 from friend for just 50$ but I'm still puzzled whether "efficiency" is anything near important for modern PSUs. According to the BeQuite PSU Calculator, my rig pulls about 650W max.


Any article that says you need over 1,000W for a standard system now, is irrelevant.


----------



## ecopsorn (Jun 18, 2020)

Thanks to all
Build is complete now, I settled with the 10700k, Noctua D15 and the HXi850 PSU in the Lian Li 011D XL.
Thread can be closed


----------

