# NVIDIA Responds to Criticism Surrounding the RTX 3080 Launch



## btarunr (Sep 22, 2020)

NVIDIA's new GeForce RTX 3080 graphics card went on sale last week, and practically its entire inventory was gone in sixty seconds. The NVIDIA GeForce store exclusively selling the Jewelry-like Founders Edition card was hit by sophisticated scalper bots originally designed for limited-edition apparel sales, and one scalper gloated on the web having picked up over three dozen cards to auction off on e-bay for tens of thousands in profit. Frustrated genuine buyers were left disenchanted with NVIDIA over the handling of the launch. 

NVIDIA posted an FAQ on its GeForce blog attempting to explain much of the criticism surrounding its handling of the RTX 3080 launch. NVIDIA's main explanation appears to be an unprecedented market demand for its RTX 3080. The company claims that "The demand for the GeForce RTX 3080 was truly unprecedented. We and our partners underestimated it," NVIDIA says. On scalping, NVIDIA explained that while its store had certain anti-bot measures in place, they underestimated the sophistication of scalping bots this time around. NVIDIA also claims to have manually cancelled hundreds of orders suspected to have been placed using bots. "While individuals using bots may have shown images of email inboxes filled with confirmed orders, NVIDIA has cancelled hundreds of orders manually before they were able to ship."



 

Find other interesting answers by NVIDIA to FAQs below.



*What happened? I was really excited for the GeForce RTX 3080, but the launch has made it near impossible to find one and this is really disappointing.*
The demand for the GeForce RTX 3080 was truly unprecedented. We and our partners underestimated it.

Over 50 major global retailers had inventory on the day of launch. Our retail partners reported record traffic to their sites, in many cases exceeding Black Friday. This caused crashes, delays and other issues for their customers. We knew the GeForce RTX 3080 would be popular, but none of us expected that much traffic on the first day.

*What's the overall GeForce RTX 3080 stock situation?*
The GeForce RTX 3080 is in full production. We began shipping GPUs to our partners in August, and have been increasing the supply weekly. Partners are also ramping up capacity to meet the unprecedented demand. We understand that many gamers are unable to buy a GeForce RTX 3080 right now and we are doing everything we can to catch up quickly. Keep checking in with your favorite retailer to be notified of availability. You may use the GeForce RTX 3080 product finder to find available cards at local retailers.

*Why does availability start with such low inventory? Why not wait until more cards are produced?*
We have great supply - just not for this level of demand. It is typical for initial demand to exceed supply for our new GPUs. Our global network of partners are ramping as hard as they can to get the new GPUs to the more than 100 million GeForce gamers around the world. Our philosophy has always been to get the latest technology into the hands of gamers as fast as possible. As we race to build more GeForce RTX 3080s, we suggest not buying from opportunistic resellers who are attempting to take advantage of the current situation.

*What changes are you making to the NVIDIA Store moving forward?*
As with many other etailers, the NVIDIA Store was also overrun with malicious bots and resellers. To combat this challenge we have made the following changes: we moved our NVIDIA Store to a dedicated environment, with increased capacity and more bot protection. We updated the code to be more efficient on the server load. We integrated CAPTCHA to the checkout flow to help offset the use of bots. We implemented additional security protections to the store APIs. And more efforts are underway.

*You said the NVIDIA store would have GeForce RTX 3080s at 6 a.m. on September 17th, why did the store immediately go from "notify me" to "out of stock"?*
At 6 a.m. pacific we attempted to push the NVIDIA store live. Instantly, the NVIDIA store was inundated with over 10 times the traffic of our previous generation launch, which took our internal systems to a crawl and encountered an error preventing sales from starting properly at 6:00am pacific. We were able to resolve the issues and process orders later than planned.

*I saw individuals who use bots/scripts celebrating the purchase of multiple GeForce RTX 3080 GPUs! Did bots get all of the available supply?*
No. While individuals using bots may have shown images of email inboxes filled with confirmed orders, NVIDIA has cancelled hundreds of orders manually before they were able to ship.

*Why did the NVIDIA Store not have any preventative measures in place to battle bots (i.e. CAPTCHA,etc)?*
The NVIDIA Store had many behind-the-scenes security measures in place which proved sufficient for previous launches. This is the first time that we have seen bots at this scale and sophistication. Since launch, we have been quickly working on numerous security upgrades, including CAPTCHA. We will also continue to manually monitor purchases to help ensure cards get in the hands of legitimate consumers.

*Why did NVIDIA send "Notify Me" emails knowing that RTX 3080 FE was out of stock?*
We intended for "Notify Me" emails to go out at 6:00 a.m. with the targeted start of availability. Due to the extreme demand and site traffic, we were unable to properly process orders on time. The emails were held back until the errors were resolved later than morning. Still, inventory sold out very quickly, so we were sold out by time most people opened their emails. In retrospect, we should not have sent the "Notify Me" emails.

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## Caring1 (Sep 22, 2020)

Gone in 60 seconds.
Do we blame Nicholas Cage for this?


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## GhostRyder (Sep 22, 2020)

Well at least with the new measures hopefully the RTX 3090 and 3070 launches are better


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## Bubster (Sep 22, 2020)

How Bounce Alerts Bots Dominated the Botched RTX 3080 Launch
					

The hotly anticipated RTX 3080 video card when on sale this week, and most of the people who wanted to buy one were unable to do so. You can thank bots like the one from Bounce Alerts that help resellers vacuum up stock for big product launches. This happens all the time, but it’s all the more...




					www.techpowerup.com


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## Xex360 (Sep 22, 2020)

How about the huge difference in MSRP, why is it 699$ in the US and much more (on nVidia website) I saw up to 40% more, while if imported from the US (assuming it's in stock) it costs less, even though you have to pay tax, shipping and margin?


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## AnarchoPrimitiv (Sep 22, 2020)

So Nvidia can develop complex AI hardware and the "most powerful GPUs", but can't stop some scalping bots or predict interest in a newly released card?


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## Bubster (Sep 22, 2020)

let's hope Nvidia does it better with the launch of the other Ampere cards...and all the other companies Like AMD Sony...



Caring1 said:


> Gone in 60 seconds.
> Do we blame Nicholas Cage for this?


Gone in 60 Seconds  just like the Movie


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## Tomorrow (Sep 22, 2020)

CAPTCHA is not enough. Ther are ways to automate bypassing it. I hope they implement 2FA going forward. That's much harder to automate.


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## Searing (Sep 22, 2020)

It would be nice if nVidia would also stop pathetically charging $60-70 CAD shipping if you buy in Canada. A company that size can have a distributor in Canada for goodness sake.


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## Bwaze (Sep 22, 2020)

I imagine we have to take their word now for bots being the sole reason most of us didn't even see the 3080 in stock in all 50 major retailers, let alone had a chance of buying it?

We're even worse customers than bots, world really doesn't need humans. 

All is going according to plan, (artificial) scarcity will push the price of cards higher, and we will happily pay more just to have the chance of owning such a gem! And of course this will not go away after a month or two - cards have to hold their high value for two years. 

Did Turing even had any sales or lowering of prices later on? Even 2080 held it's value when they launched a faster 2080 Super at the same price, and most of the cards available in Europe are NOW, two years after the launch priced higher than at beginning. Same goes for other cards in the lineup...


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## Kissamies (Sep 22, 2020)

Heh, I already called this a paper launch as they were released before they were available.


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## Anymal (Sep 22, 2020)

Its all parade. No need for 3080, stock of Turing is full.


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## blobster21 (Sep 22, 2020)

Bwaze said:


> I imagine we have to take their word now for bots being the sole reason most of us didn't even see the 3080 in stock in all 50 major retailers, let alone had a chance of buying it?
> 
> We're even worse customers than bots, world really doesn't need humans.
> 
> ...



I'm done with hardware upgrading craze, i'm so happy to be out of it. This goes in pair with most modern games not catching my interest anymore. (growing too old ? i'm only 47 though...)


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## ZoneDymo (Sep 22, 2020)

Caring1 said:


> Gone in 60 seconds.
> Do we blame Nicholas Cage for this?



Why refer to the remake instead of the original



Searing said:


> It would be nice if nVidia would also stop pathetically charging $60-70 CAD shipping if you buy in Canada. A company that size can have a distributor in Canada for goodness sake.



If the Canadians would stop buying that might happen...


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## BoboOOZ (Sep 22, 2020)

It's nice  of them to bring their partners in on it. Partners were already leaking that availability will be very low a week in advance.


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## ratirt (Sep 22, 2020)

I feel a ruse with this "unprecedented" demand. NV went earlier with the launch the so called "paper launch" just to have it out in the public. Now they started shipping the Chips and GPUs and people willing to buy these cant due to very low quantities.


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## fynxer (Sep 22, 2020)

Searing said:


> It would be nice if nVidia would also stop pathetically charging $60-70 CAD shipping if you buy in Canada. A company that size can have a distributor in Canada for goodness sake.



The shipping is where they make the real profit by over charging, you really think nvidia is paying 60-70 CAD for shipping when simultaneously sending thousands of cards to just Canada.


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## Bones (Sep 22, 2020)

Caring1 said:


> Gone in 60 seconds.
> Do we blame Nicholas Cage for this?


Nah - It was the "Eleanor-Bot" that's responsible for all the mayhem - Like me. 

I do see Nvidia being at fault here but not entirely. 
If they can do other measures like making sure all these orders aren't being shipped to the same address and so on that would be great but then again it's not like a group of people can't act together to get some or even "Hire" some folks just to place an order on your behalf.

I saw it coming and knew it was going to be a huge mess at launch with sky-high prices from scalpers trying to make a fortune by leveraging the available supply.


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## fynxer (Sep 22, 2020)

*NVIDIA IS TO BLAME FOR THE SHORTAGE, THEY THEM SELF BOTCHED THE RELEASE, NOT THE SCALPS!!!*

Even without the scalps stock was way to low compared to real market demand, *they are now using the scalps as scapegoats and blame them to save face.

One retailer got over 20000 orders for the Zotac 3080 Trinity (you read that right, 20K orders) and that was for only one SKU from that retailer, does this sound like scalps botched the release.*
(Zotac has gone out in a press release saying they are very sorry but they cannot even come close to filling the 20K orders of that one retailer even less the total world orders of the Zotac 3080 Trinity)

Reports suggest *MORE THAN 20X higher demand* than nvidia predicted *for the 3000 series over the 2000 series*, IF TRUE how can it even be possible to be that wrong.

How come they did not make proper research in time to predict real market demand, other companies do it, *it now really looks like nvidia just winged it.*

Also they are so paranoid and secretive til last second that they really have no possibility to prepare for a release with proper stock.

Why purposely keep partners in the dark til the last second so they have a hard time getting stock ready and shipped out to retail on release day.

*Look at Sony and Microsoft, WORKING WITH RETAIL LONG IN ADVANCE releasing prices and taking pre-orders of PS5 and XSX up to 2 months in advance *making it possible for them to predict proper demand in different parts of the world and have millions of units in stock available to fill those orders when release day comes.

*NO, this screw up is ALL NVIDIA's own doing... they WINGED IT and don't get to blame anyone else but them self's!!!






NOTE! I have now seen several retailers starting to increase prices with up to 12%, this a VERY BAD TREND NVIDIA MUST STOP and if nvidia does not magically produce more stock quickly prices will go up even further not only on 3080 BUT also on 3070 when it comes. With higher 3080 prices you will probably see increased prices of 3070 partner cards at release too.*

What is even more disturbing is what my friend and marketing expert suggested to me, "nvidia has probably learned from the price chaos of the mining days,* by knowing there is a massive market demand they created an artificial shortage by limiting release stock so they quickly could increase the prices and make more money."* He said that IF nvidia increases the price of the Founders Edition's this was their plan all along.


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## ebivan (Sep 22, 2020)

So will there be more FEs? Or was this a one time thing and now only partner AIBs are continued?

For me the hype train has passed for now. I was ready to buy a 3080 FE card but the whole situation really pissed me off. I would not pay more than the 700€ that were promised anyways.
Nvidia can give all the fake explanations they want but the fact is, they launched a product when they didnt have enough stock to even fill a tiny part of the market. I mean its not like there are some boards missing here and there, but in fact only maybe 1 in 10 or even 1 in 100 people who wanted one, got one. This is just bad and however nvidia tries to bend that fact it just stays bad. 
So now I will at least wait for Red October and see what AMD has to offer.
This time I really hope RDNA2 is better than Ampere and all those people that went empty handed now, will get an "Ampere-Killer Radeon 6800 xt 16GB" for 650$ on October 28th


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## Bwaze (Sep 22, 2020)

The solution to beating the bots is of course using bots yourself - forums are now full of tutorials on how to set up one.

I'm sure we're in this for a long time, situation will not magically improve and stores will not suddenly get their stocks and lower the inflated prices. I predict this will go on for months, and prices can get much higher, remember the great GPU shortage during cryptocraze in 2017?

I know it's not the same market, but Canon launched a high end mirrorles camera EOS R5 three months ago, with minimum stock and a story on how COVID in China and Japan impacted the production of cameras. Three months later and there are still no cameras available anywhere in Europe - you have to step in a waiting line and preorder with unknown date of delivery and that's a camera for 4385 EUR - that's 5150 USD...


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## nguyen (Sep 22, 2020)

Yeah I wouldn't buy the FE model anyway, the VRAM thermal is supposedly very high, even >100C in one particular spot. I initially found the FLIR image of the 3080 FE to be a little worrying





Later it has been confirmed by Igor's Lab that the VRAM can reach 104C in one spot









A quick fix is putting some thermal pad on the back side of the PCB in that particular spot LOL

Seem like the OEM who make the FE model is still shoddy just like with the Turing launch.


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## Anymal (Sep 22, 2020)

Waiting for tuf, asus is back on track. But till december.


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## ebivan (Sep 22, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Yeah I wouldn't buy the FE model anyway, the VRAM thermal is supposedly very high, even >100C in one particular spot. I initially found the FLIR image of the 3080 FE to be a little worrying
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And what exactly is the problem here? GDDR6X is supposed to have an internal Temp sensor so it that was to high, it would throttle or something. But since it doesn't, themps should be ok...


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## nguyen (Sep 22, 2020)

ebivan said:


> And what exactly is the problem here? GDDR6X is supposed to have an internal Temp sensor so it that was to high, it would throttle or something. But since it doesn't, themps should be ok...



GDDR6X have ECC built in, it won't crash at unstable clocks but you would lose performance





Anyway I don't want to discuss why running GDDR6X at 100C is not a good idea, it just obviously is. Unless you want to play space invaders.
The VRAM on the TUF version run at like 60C, Asus built a sophisticated secondary heatsinks just for the VRAM area, so yeah lower temp is always better.


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## ebivan (Sep 22, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Anyway I don't want to discuss why running GDDR6X at 100C is not a good idea, it just obviously is.



Well, the specs PDF doesnt mention a max temp. But many people just think semiconductors are not meant to get hotter hat 70°C. This is just wrong, of course it always depends on the type of semiconductor but there are many chips out there that can operate at over 100°C for years without having a drastic impact on their overall lifetime


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## nguyen (Sep 22, 2020)

ebivan said:


> Well, the specs PDF doesnt mention a max temp. But many people just think semiconductors are not meant to get hotter hat 70°C. This is just wrong, of course it always depent on the type of semiconductor but thereare many chips out there that can operate at over 100°C for years without having a drastic impact on their overall lifetime



Ever heard of solder point failure ? it happen more often under high temperature swing. Imagine under load it reach 100C then cool down to 20C when idle.
Anyways this will likely lead to high RMA rate, well it already happened with Turing FE models.


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## okbuddy (Sep 22, 2020)

Caring1 said:


> Gone in 60 seconds.
> Do we blame Nicholas Cage for this?


what's your problem, cage great actor


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## Gundem (Sep 22, 2020)

This is all great marketing... More hype, more drama, more more more 3080...


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## Vya Domus (Sep 22, 2020)

fynxer said:


> how can it even be possible to be that wrong.



They knew what the demand would be, the GPUs (or maybe even those memory chips) weren't available in great quantity for that many cards to be made. Of course, they knew that too.


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## Vayra86 (Sep 22, 2020)

nguyen said:


> GDDR6X have ECC built in, it won't crash at unstable clocks but you would lose performance
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is like an EVGA 1080 FTW debacle waiting to happen right here. 100C around memory is a sign to stay FAR away. It won't last.



fynxer said:


> *NVIDIA IS TO BLAME FOR THE SHORTAGE, THEY THEM SELF BOTCHED THE RELEASE, NOT THE SCALPS!!!*
> 
> Even without the scalps stock was way to low compared to real market demand, *they are now using the scalps as scapegoats and blame them to save face.
> 
> ...



Who are you yelling at? Relax!


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## my_name_is_earl (Sep 22, 2020)

It's not bots, it's excuses. They simply don't have enough in-stock. If a million people waiting to click buy, of course it'll be sold out in seconds.


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## nguyen (Sep 22, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> This is like an EVGA 1080 FTW debacle waiting to happen right here. 100C around memory is a sign to stay FAR away. It won't last.



Yeah Igor's Lab made a very good investigation into the space invaders debacle. So at high temp under load, the VRAM solder points could have been damaged due to the thermal expansion and and later contraction of the thermal pads.
The emergency fix were some silicon glue applied to around the VRAM area.





Not sure if Nvidia had learned the lesson this time around LOL. Guess we will see after a couple of months.


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## Caring1 (Sep 22, 2020)

okbuddy said:


> what's your problem, cage great actor


Whoosh.
That's the sound of my comment going over your head.


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## Lomskij (Sep 22, 2020)

Ha, looks like that premium graphics cards suddenly became a life critical product, akin to a toilet roll during the lockdown, at least judging by the screaming :-D


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## Vayra86 (Sep 22, 2020)

okbuddy said:


> what's your problem, cage great actor



great nose, too

Sometimes I wonder whether he was playing his nose or himself. I can't unsee it, its horrible


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## gottimw (Sep 22, 2020)

ratirt said:


> I feel a ruse with this "unprecedented" demand. NV went earlier with the launch the so called "paper launch" just to have it out in the public. Now they started shipping the Chips and GPUs and people willing to buy these cant due to very low quantities.



This. It is starting to look like an industry standard. Release too little of product, create FOMO and its all just before Christmas. Hook, line, sinker. $$$


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## bonehead123 (Sep 22, 2020)

The following comes to mind here:

"Plan the work, then work the plan" - *obviously this did NOT happen, or at least if it did, it definitely was not executed properly*

"A failure to plan on our end does not constitute an emergency on your end" - *a near total sell-out in less than 15 mins seems like an emergency to me *

In other words, they are basically telling us: 

"Hey consumer - f*ck you, you will just have to wait because we (OUR MGMT TEAM) f*cked up & didn't ramp up production early/fast enough"

In most industries, a failure of this magnitude would cause executives heads to roll, like, yesterday, but obviouosly they just don't give a f*ck cause they did this on purpose and are now backpedaling and attempting to offer some lame-assed aopologies to make themselves feel better and deflect criticism of their failures


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## BoboOOZ (Sep 22, 2020)

bonehead123 said:


> "Plan the work, then work the plan" - *obviously this did NOT happen, or at least if it did, it definitely was not executed properly*


It did happen, it was a planned FOMO. It's just they overachieved a bit there.









						Fear of missing out - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## bonehead123 (Sep 22, 2020)

BoboOOZ said:


> FOMO



???


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## pathfindercod (Sep 22, 2020)

They can say they were caught off guard about demand. That’s a lie, this happens EVERYTIME a new cars comes out.  They knew they could make it a unicorn for a few weeks just like to 2080ti and 1080ti and on and on. It’s been this way with Nvidia as far back as I can remember.


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## BoboOOZ (Sep 22, 2020)

bonehead123 said:


> ???


Edited


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## dinmaster (Sep 22, 2020)

love how they publish questions from themselves and then answer them. Personally im interested in getting a new card but ill wait till amd comes out with something and compare them like any sane person should do... I think nvidia screwed this launch up. I also think amd will have more availability at launch then nvidia did with this one, "unprecedented demand" is straight crap they knew. They knew, should have waited an extra month on release date to get more made. Anyway good luck to the people that want this card as fast as possible, ill wait like i said.


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## Minus Infinity (Sep 22, 2020)

cough BS cough. It's a tired old excuse trotted out by nearly all companies thesedays to cover their failings on delivering adequate supply. They seem to really underestimate a lot of things and only a moron would have believed the cards wouldn't be popular based on price and performance compared to Turing.


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## CheapMeat (Sep 22, 2020)

The hardware community is so toxic. Yuck.


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## medi01 (Sep 22, 2020)

AnarchoPrimitiv said:


> So Nvidia can develop complex AI hardware and the "most powerful GPUs", but can't stop some scalping bots or predict interest in a newly released card?


Who said that scalping bots were a thing?
Even people who managed to order shit, are told it's not clear when they'll get the cards.

Everything hints at this being a soft launch.

AdoredTV has also made an interesting point about helluva expensive cooler being used and NV being reluctant to sell too many of those, passing over the "ball" to AIBs to take the hit or hike the price.


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## Jocko8009 (Sep 22, 2020)

This is a joke right? Nobody in their right mind would pay that much for a graphic card.


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## kapone32 (Sep 22, 2020)

It's 2020, AMD can't produce enough affordable CPUs, Intel is running at full capacity and Covid 19 has allowed people to actually play their Game library they have been accumulating. Nvidia have not released a faster GPU than the 2080TI in 2+ years but they underestimated demand? I guess they also didn't see their stock price doubling in the same period either. Once you have been in PC Gaming long enough you know that Nvidia is the worst at soft launches. I can't wait to see the Gamers Nexus "send us your broken 3080" video. That is why though Nvidia makes nice products but they can be very unsavory in their business ethics making it difficult for some to blindly purchase (not that you can anyway) Gigabyte's AIB 3080 are $949 CAD.



Jocko8009 said:


> This is a joke right? Nobody in their right mind would pay that much for a graphic card.
> 
> View attachment 169476


 You would be surprised how many people have more money than brains.


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## ratirt (Sep 22, 2020)

kapone32 said:


> It's 2020, AMD can't produce enough affordable CPUs, Intel is running at full capacity and Covid 19 has allowed people to actually play their Game library they have been accumulating. Nvidia have not released a faster GPU than the 2080TI in 2+ years but they underestimated demand? I guess they also didn't see their stock price doubling in the same period either. Once you have been in PC Gaming long enough you know that Nvidia is the worst at soft launches. I can't wait to see the Gamers Nexus "send us your broken 3080" video. That is why though Nvidia makes nice products but they can be very unsavory in their business ethics making it difficult for some to blindly purchase (not that you can anyway) Gigabyte's AIB 3080 are $949 CAD.
> 
> 
> You would be surprised how many people have more money than brains.


More money means a nickel since they've got no brains 
It's the scalps I bet.


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## kapone32 (Sep 22, 2020)

ratirt said:


> More money means a nickel since they've got no brains
> It's the scalps I bet.


Of course the same thing always happens. It's just that when you combine that with Nvidia's way of doing business it becomes quite unsavory for the enthusiast.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 22, 2020)

medi01 said:


> Who said that scalping bots were a thing?
> Even people who managed to order shit, are told it's not clear when they'll get the cards.
> 
> Everything hints at this being a soft launch.
> ...


Exactly that last point.


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## ratirt (Sep 22, 2020)

kapone32 said:


> Of course the same thing always happens. It's just that when you combine that with Nvidia's way of doing business it becomes quite unsavory for the enthusiast.


Actually it's a standard for NV from some time.  At least I see it that way.


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## gridracedriver (Sep 22, 2020)

Caring1 said:


> Gone in 60 seconds.
> Do we blame Nicholas Cage for this?



ahahhh 
great quote


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## kapone32 (Sep 22, 2020)

ratirt said:


> Actually it's a standard for NV from some time.  At least I see it that way.


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## Jocko8009 (Sep 22, 2020)

I'm sure this guy will remove his bid. WTF is this world coming to?


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## phanbuey (Sep 22, 2020)

Jocko8009 said:


> I'm sure this guy will remove his bid. WTF is this world coming to?
> 
> View attachment 169490



That is a fake bid so that card doesn't sell.  That account has no intention of paying that so the seller will have to go through non-payment dispute then relist the item.  It's a tactic to stall the scalpers so they lose money.


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## Aquinus (Sep 22, 2020)

btarunr said:


> "The demand for the GeForce RTX 3080 was truly unprecedented. We and our partners underestimated it," NVIDIA says.


Sounds like a good alternative to saying that yields are so bad that they can't produce a reasonable number of units to satisfy demand. I mean, are we really surprised about this when nVidia designs absolutely huge dies?


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## Caring1 (Sep 22, 2020)

phanbuey said:


> That is a fake bid so that card doesn't sell.  That account has no intention of paying that so the seller will have to go through non-payment dispute then relist the item.  It's a tactic to stall the scalpers so they lose money.


Pretty sure it's also against eBay policy to sell a product you don't own or have in your possession to sell.
The winning bidder only has to demand shipment within 7 days if asked to pay.


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## kapone32 (Sep 22, 2020)

Jocko8009 said:


> I'm sure this guy will remove his bid. WTF is this world coming to?
> 
> View attachment 169490


Especially for a Zotac card


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## xtremesv (Sep 22, 2020)

Ironic, NVIDIA brags about their share in the AI revolution but they're easily fooled by bots, probably coded by teenagers.


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## WeeRab (Sep 23, 2020)

Nvidia probably had 50% of their total stock out to reviewers.
 The whole scalpers story was BS.  They were 'sold out' 5 seconds after the sales went live.


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## ratirt (Sep 23, 2020)

NVidia didnt have the stock due to the fact they have a paper launch to be faster than AMD and get people excited. The stock is little but it will pick up in a month or few weeks.


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## gottimw (Sep 23, 2020)

Jocko8009 said:


> This is a joke right? Nobody in their right mind would pay that much for a graphic card.
> 
> View attachment 169476



+ shipping lol

You are ripping people off and then make them pay for shipping on top of that xD


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## BiggieShady (Sep 23, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> great nose, too
> 
> Sometimes I wonder whether he was playing his nose or himself. I can't unsee it, its horrible


Really? Rhino-discrimination? We live in a world where someone, for example, could say that if he was a superhero, he'd be named nostril-man... or when they see him swimming on his back, they think a shark is coming... but that doesn't give us right to joke about it

Anywhoo, Ampere shortage ... imagine you are a retailer, while the stock is on the way, you already sold it in a backdoor deal at bulk but for MSRP ... you keep dozen of cards for the glass display cases in the shop


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## N3M3515 (Sep 23, 2020)

Total BS. Paper launch.


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## BoboOOZ (Sep 23, 2020)

N3M3515 said:


> Total BS. Paper launch.


You haven't seen  anything yet, just wait till tomorrow


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## hat (Sep 23, 2020)

It's amazing how many people are losing their minds over this. Give it some time, I'm sure more 3080s will be available soon enough.


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## N3M3515 (Sep 24, 2020)

hat said:


> It's amazing how many people are losing their minds over this. Give it some time, I'm sure more 3080s will be available soon enough.



Well....yeah, but they artificially increace the price of the gpu by doing the "such high demand!!", when the reality is they don't have nearly enough of the product.


----------



## hat (Sep 24, 2020)

N3M3515 said:


> Well....yeah, but they artificially increace the price of the gpu by doing the "such high demand!!", when the reality is they don't have nearly enough of the product.


In which case, we can all vote with our wallets.


----------



## N3M3515 (Sep 24, 2020)

hat said:


> In which case, we can all vote with our wallets.



That's the thing.........nobody vote with the brain, they just throw money away.


----------



## Fluffmeister (Sep 24, 2020)

hat said:


> It's amazing how many people are losing their minds over this. Give it some time, I'm sure more 3080s will be available soon enough.



First they are too expensive, now apparently they don't care and are upset they can't buy one.

Sitting on a forum being sad about tech you don't intend to buy anyway is a strange thing.

And people with lots of desposable income are stupid too somehow. Good old TPU.


----------



## N3M3515 (Sep 24, 2020)

Fluffmeister said:


> First they are too expensive, now apparently they don't care and are upset they can't buy one.
> 
> Sitting on a forum being sad about tech you don't intend to buy anyway is a strange thing.
> 
> And people with lots of desposable income are stupid too somehow. Good old TPU.



Think about something genius: if the top end gpu is freaking expensive, the rest of the lower end ALSO ARE. So it is actually fine for people to be sad about THIS one gpu being as expensive as it is. If the top end was for example 600 dollars i could get for 250 something sooo much better than now that the top end is $1500.


----------



## Fluffmeister (Sep 24, 2020)

N3M3515 said:


> Think about something genius: if the top end gpu is freaking expensive, the rest of the lower end ALSO ARE. So it is actually fine for people to be sad about THIS one gpu being as expensive as it is. If the top end was for example 600 dollars i could get for 250 something sooo much better than now that the top end is $1500.



How profound, in the real world the free market dictates what is and isn't acceptable, not your utopian dreams.

Now dry your eyes.


----------



## N3M3515 (Sep 24, 2020)

Fluffmeister said:


> How profound, in the real world the free market dictates what is and isn't acceptable, not your utopian dreams.
> 
> Now dry your eyes.



Well, that is true. But my point still stands and is not utopian dreams, just go back a few generations.


----------



## hat (Sep 24, 2020)

Market forces dictate prices. I find it interesting that the 3000 series is cheaper than the 2000 series. Maybe Turing didn't sell so well?

The economy is also not the same as it was 10 years ago. In general, wages have gone up and the value of the dollar is less. This means things appear more expensive when your $500 king of the hill graphics card becomes a $700 graphics card.


----------



## Tomorrow (Sep 24, 2020)

N3M3515 said:


> Think about something genius: if the top end gpu is freaking expensive, the rest of the lower end ALSO ARE. So it is actually fine for people to be sad about THIS one gpu being as expensive as it is. If the top end was for example 600 dollars i could get for 250 something sooo much better than now that the top end is $1500.


I have two examples for you. 8800 Ultra. Released 13 years ago. With inflation it would cost over $1000 today.
Also: Titan Z. 6 years ago. Cost $3000 without accounting for inflation.

There have always been expensive cards at the very top. It's not a recent trend.


----------



## ratirt (Sep 24, 2020)

Tomorrow said:


> I have two examples for you. 8800 Ultra. Released 13 years ago. With inflation it would cost over $1000 today.
> Also: Titan Z. 6 years ago. Cost $3000 without accounting for inflation.
> 
> There have always been expensive cards at the very top. It's not a recent trend.


That is a silly thing to say you know. 
The horse-drawn carriage considering the inflation would cost $100k now since 100 years ago. 
The prices for the cards are high. The advancement in the tech is supposedly make it cheaper not more expensive. There is more things to consider and put into the equation than just, price difference and your inflation.


----------



## N3M3515 (Sep 24, 2020)

hat said:


> Market forces dictate prices. I find it interesting that the 3000 series is cheaper than the 2000 series. Maybe Turing didn't sell so well?
> 
> The economy is also not the same as it was 10 years ago. In general, wages have gone up and the value of the dollar is less. This means things appear more expensive when your $500 king of the hill graphics card becomes a $700 graphics card.



Correction, king of the hill $500 gpu became a $1500 gpu


----------



## Tomorrow (Sep 24, 2020)

N3M3515 said:


> Correction, king of the hill $500 gpu became a $1500 gpu


BS


----------



## Prima.Vera (Sep 24, 2020)

Any ideea when can we expect those cards to be available at MSRP price? And not sold out in 2 mins...


----------



## Tomorrow (Sep 24, 2020)

Prima.Vera said:


> Any ideea when can we expect those cards to be available at MSRP price? And not sold out in 2 mins...


My guess is November. After Big Navi is available. That way the demand will be split by two companies, two foundries and possiblbly as much as 5 or 6 differenet SKU's:
3070
3080
3090
6800
6900

And that's not counting 16GB 3070 and 20GB 3080 plus 6700.


----------



## hat (Sep 24, 2020)

ratirt said:


> That is a silly thing to say you know.
> The horse-drawn carriage considering the inflation would cost $100k now since 100 years ago.
> The prices for the cards are high. The advancement in the tech is supposedly make it cheaper not more expensive. There is more things to consider and put into the equation than just, price difference and your inflation.


But advancing tech also costs money. New fabs and designs are not cheap. However, you can probably find more than the performance of the previously mentioned 8800 Ultra in a low end, bottom of the barrel graphics card from the current generation, or perhaps even in an IGP.


----------



## ratirt (Sep 24, 2020)

hat said:


> But advancing tech also costs money. New fabs and designs are not cheap. However, you can probably find more than the performance of the previously mentioned 8800 Ultra in a low end, bottom of the barrel graphics card from the current generation, or perhaps even in an IGP.


I would rather look at this not as an expense but investment instead. If what you say is true we wouldn't have any advancement. You invest in new tech to get more out of it. Remember it is also business that plays a role here. You have to look at the bigger picture. You get faster CPU for instance you invest in development and you get more customers. That's just a simple explanation but I'm sure you understand.


----------



## hat (Sep 24, 2020)

ratirt said:


> I would rather look at this not as an expense but investment instead. If what you say is true we wouldn't have any advancement. You invest in new tech to get more out of it. Remember it is also business that plays a role here. You have to look at the bigger picture. You get faster CPU for instance you invest in development and you get more customers. That's just a simple explanation but I'm sure you understand.



You make a CPU, people buy it. Then, you use that money to develop a new, better CPU that people will buy, and so on. But it costs money to develop the CPU in the first place, as well as manufacture it. None of that is free. Just because you can make a better CPU than you could 5 years ago doesn't mean you can also do it for less money. Of course, I'm sure Intel could crank out some Pentium 4's pretty cheaply with their 14nm or 10nm process compared to their old 65nm process, but it would cost them money to port that design to the new node, and who wants a P4 in 2020? No, everyone wants newer, faster hardware.


----------



## ratirt (Sep 24, 2020)

hat said:


> You make a CPU, people buy it. Then, you use that money to develop a new, better CPU that people will buy, and so on. But it costs money to develop the CPU in the first place, as well as manufacture it. None of that is free. Just because you can make a better CPU than you could 5 years ago doesn't mean you can also do it for less money. Of course, I'm sure Intel could crank out some Pentium 4's pretty cheaply with their 14nm or 10nm process compared to their old 65nm process, but it would cost them money to port that design to the new node, and who wants a P4 in 2020? No, everyone wants newer, faster hardware.


Well apparently I was wrong. You don't get it. It wouldn't cost money but time to make it happen. Although time is money but not the way you see it though. If it wouldn't be profitable no one would do it and yet.... Well what can I do to explain it.
Take it like this. The 14nm Intel and now the 14nm+++. Which one is cheaper? How do you quantify cheaper, meaning, what means cheaper here for you? Production is cheaper? Production per unit is cheaper? End product's price is cheaper? The node itself is cheaper? etc.
Port the design to the new node costs money? Is it though? It is their own product. They have the engineers who make the design, work to port it or make it better and factories to produce it. (Intel pays for that no matter if they work or not). So Intel has the resources already. If they are losing money, it is not the money they put in (there isn't a lot of them) but the time they had spent making the new node work is the factor here which means if they have finished it earlier they wouldn't lose as much money because they could have delivered the new node earlier and start making profit out of it.
Just like the 10nm. They have spent a shit load of time getting the CPUs production running on 10nm. (the mobile did make it) That is why they lost the money because it has taken them so damn long and still couldn't do it. They had to stick to 14nm+++ because they were forced to release the new product. It is not the money you put in for the porting (like you say) but the longer it takes to move to a new node the more money you lose because you can't sell the new node and product and that means you could have earned more than you actually did with the older node.
Look at TSMC's 7nm node. Companies like Intel, AMD, Apple etc. who want TSMC to make their chips at 7nm node buy time on the factory line from the calculated capacity that TSMC can deliver to them to make a chip. The time has already been sold and capacity TSMC had to offer is redistributed among the clients. They got 7nm node and already working on the 2nm. It's planning ahead that makes it running correctly. Intel didnt do shit for a long time and that is why they lost money. Stagnation not investments in a new technology is where you lose money. 
It is kinda hard to explain. It is better to see it but I can't deliver you that though. Hope you understand what I'm trying to say here.


----------



## Initialised (Sep 24, 2020)

welcome to the GeFarce Experience!

NVidiots, The way you're meant to be played!


----------



## Super XP (Sep 25, 2020)

That's what happens when you announce a Paper Launch.


----------



## EarthDog (Sep 25, 2020)

Super XP said:


> That's what happens when you announce a Paper Launch.


This wasn't a paper launch.

Again, the quantities were similar to the Turing launch according to NV (which also wasn't a paper launch)... popularity and bots had them sold out instantly. NV didn't allow pre-orders for partners. I'm not saying the launch was good, but by all accounts, this wasn't a paper launch.



N3M3515 said:


> Correction, king of the hill $500 gpu became a $1500 gpu


Do tell.


----------



## Super XP (Sep 25, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> This wasn't a paper launch.
> 
> Again, the quantities were similar to the Turing launch according to NV (which also wasn't a paper launch)... popularity and bots had them sold out instantly. NV didn't allow pre-orders for partners. I'm not saying the launch was good, but by all accounts, this wasn't a paper launch.
> 
> Do tell.


I was being sarcastic with the paper launch thingy. Lol



N3M3515 said:


> Correction, king of the hill $500 gpu became a $1500 gpu


Overpriced? I Agree.


----------



## John Naylor (Sep 25, 2020)

I love the dichotomy ,,,,

For weeks half the internet has been saying "Wait for Big Navi" ... "it's gonna crush nvidia"  .... " ampere's gonna flop" ....now the wisdom is .... "everyone knew the demand would be huge."

If blame has to be placed somewhere, blame the small % of folks who put so much stock in being the 1st one on the block to have to new shiny thing ... "pay attention to meeeeee... look what I got."  Consider 'what did ya get ?   Long waits till delivery, if yours was even accepted, maybe ya got your 3rd choice of models, ya paid more, how much time did ya spend sniping, unstable drivers ... when all is said and done... is it worth it ?   For some it may be and that's fine ... but every once and a while we should all rethink our life balance.

But consider, if you want a better value purchase ....

a)  If you wait for the launch day price premium to subside
b)  If you wait for the competition's new cards to arrive
c)   If you wait to read the reviews to see which cards are hits and which are misses. .... remember "Oh crap, this model has a non "A" version GPU" ... oh crap those model have a fulty cooler design" ... "oh crap, they didn't used thermal pads on this model"...."Oh crap I broke may fan taking this stupid tape off'.
d)   If you wait for the production line tweaks to improve OC abilities.
e)   If you what till the BIOS fixes and stable drivers arrive and maybe your blood pressure will be more stable.
f)   If you wait for the holidays to pass and for supply to catch up with demand.

Frustration leads to unsupported conclusions,  and recognizing how economics works is a valuable tool.... consumers create price increases.  Vendors can not make money on products they don't have, so yes, expect them to do whet every seller  on the planet would do and make the most of what they got.  They also can't make money off stuff that sits on the shelves ... so when stuff sits, prices drop.

The  mindset where cards are overpriced is a construct ... as in not real.  To compare the cost of things from different years, you have to look at them in the context of inflation exists.   Whether or not competition exists also affects prcing .









						NVIDIA shows signs ... [2008 - 2017]
					

Planning to commercialize cars equipped with NVIDIA's AI within one year - NVIDIA and Mercedes The joint development of the two companies has been underway three years ago, according to Jen-Hsun Huang, founder and CEO of NVIDIA, said that it will be able to reach commercialization in the next...




					forum.beyond3d.com
				




"As we can see from this chart, current pricing for the 1080 Ti is pretty much inline with where NVIDIA has typically [$700] been.   *When adjusted for inflation the 1080 Ti almost exactly matches the price of the GeForce 2 Ultra from back in 2000*. We have some notable fluctuation over the years, which mostly seems to coincide with when NVIDIA had true competition in the market place. _When NVIDIA were on top, and the competition had nothing, the prices went u_p, as we can see with the 8800 Ultra. Other times, during periods of higher competition in the market, pricing was lower. You could argue that the 1080 Ti is actually under-priced for the market climate. Argue whichever way you want about the appropriateness of NVIDIA's pricing, but this information does show a trend much in line with the relative market position of the brand."

As was shown in the referenced graphic,  from 2000 to 2017 the price of the year appropriate 3080 equivalent was around $700 (in 2017 dollars).  If we take $700 on 2017 dollars and adjust for inflation ... the 3080 should cost .... $700 x  259.918 / 243.801 = $746.28  .

So based upon 20 years of cost data averaging $700 ... the 3080 is under priced... especially here in US where tariffs are being applied and shipping / handling costs are pandemic inflated.  No doubt someone will attempt to invalidate 20 years of data wrong by bringing up the 2080 Ti .... but an exception does not invalidate the rule.   We had a unique situation then where there were thousands of 1xxx series cards sitting in warehouses.   In order to clear this space, 2xxx series cards were boosted in price till that inventory was cleared.  Just as we see now with peeps paying $1500 for a $700 card at auction, while everything from the 2080 down eventually normalized, the supply of 2080 Tis never caught up with demand ... so those prices hung up there.    As the quote and data set show.... the only time prices got weird, it was "When NVIDIA were on top, and the competition had nothing, the prices went up,"... so if ya need to lay blame, why not blame the competition.

This applies to the greater population much more to than in here with us nerds and geeks   as techie types tend to be more data oriented.    But in the social media era, there's a subset of every population  whose self worth is tied to how may "likes" they get on social media apps .... "I gotta have the right phone" ... "I gotta have the right sneakers' ... "I gotta have the right video card".... "I gotta have the right jeans, handbag, haircut ... yada yada yada ...

If we wanna complain about products selling out and products pricing being too high in this sector ... it has to be recognized that this is no different than any other sought after product... folks wait on line for days to buy a phone ... the same phone that other people will get 3 days later who never left their couch.    Handbags and sneakers sell out in hours and become "collectables".  Fashion choices are based upon "infuencers" rather than a person's own tastes.

But we too have to look in the mirror .... If we're setting an alarm  to wake up so we can start sniping cards the minute they go on sale, maybe something's missing.    Maybe it's time to sit back, relax and consider that when it comes to PC componentry, better things actually come to those who wait.


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## Fluffmeister (Sep 26, 2020)

Shocking from Nvidia, I'm glad I bought a 295X2 for $1500 way back in 2014, I got two GPU's for my money! Damn you nGreedia!


----------



## The Von Matrices (Sep 27, 2020)

This happens every time, whether it's graphics cards, CPUs, or video game consoles.  Why don't manufacturers just follow the rules of economics?

If demand is greater than supply, then demand the highest price the market will bear while still selling out the limited supply, then lower the price later when supply exceeds demand.

The 3080 should have had an MSRP of at least $1000 at launch, maybe even higher.  Then, a few months later when supply is available, the MSRP can be lowered to $700, and the people who bought at launch will have lost $300 to depreciation.  That's an early adopter tax, and it's completely normal.

Instead, all that's happening is that NVidia is getting $700 and the resellers are getting $300 instead of NVidia getting the full $1000, which is dumb on NVidia's part.


----------



## Tomorrow (Sep 27, 2020)

The Von Matrices said:


> This happens every time, whether it's graphics cards, CPUs, or video game consoles.  Why don't manufacturers just follow the rules of economics?
> 
> If demand is greater than supply, then demand the highest price the market will bear while still selling out the limited supply, then lower the price later when supply exceeds demand.
> 
> ...


And in the process have no fixed MSRP? What exactly are reviewers supposed to base their value evaluation on? You can't expect them to go back every month and change the conclusion.
Plus it would piss off early buyers more than the current situation. Knowing that in a few months time you have lost hundreds or even thousands of dollars.
Your system would just postpone the current situation, not eliminate it. Vast majority of people would just wait and the whole thing would happen months later anyway.

I think it would be a far better option for manufacturer to have minimum a 2-3 month production buffer and have adequate protections in place for buyers - like early registration and queue, 2FA on checkout etc. Notice how Apple, despite massive demand seems to be able to launch their products without any such drama. It can be done but requires a better suppy chain and better thought out launch strategy.


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## Super XP (Sep 29, 2020)

The majority of Nvidia GPUs have always been overpriced.
This is a common fact that's undisputable.


----------



## EarthDog (Sep 29, 2020)

Super XP said:


> The majority of Nvidia GPUs have always been overpriced.
> This is a common fact that's undisputable.


Water is wet. Also a common fact that is undisputable.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 29, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Water is wet. Also a common fact that is undisputable.


New card's with leading performance sell out is also a common fact, hopefully next time Nvidia will remember their many prior launches and dream up a better excuse.
Yet they revisited ol' Consumer demand, Again.


----------



## EarthDog (Sep 29, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> New card's with leading performance sell out is also a common fact, hopefully next time Nvidia will remember their many prior launches and dream up a better excuse.
> Yet they revisited ol' Consumer demand, Again.


And? Your point?

Water is STILL wet.


----------



## Super XP (Sep 29, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Water is wet. Also a common fact that is undisputable.


Correct.
Glad you agree. 

And to my original point, hopefully RDNA2 helps keep GPU prices reasonable ya know


----------



## EarthDog (Sep 29, 2020)

Super XP said:


> Correct.
> Glad you agree.
> 
> And to my original point, hopefully RDNA2 helps keep GPU prices reasonable ya know


Well, priced higher I can agree with. Overpriced... doesn't seem so considering how many they sold. 

The person you originally quoted over this cites a $500 flagship GPU from 2013 (GTX 780 as 780Ti is a lot more pricey along with the first titan...so his information is 'off' a bit, hence why I originally quoted him and asked "do tell" to which we never saw the poster gain. So, fast forward 7 years you have a $800 flagship that is multiple times faster than said previous flagship. I can see why everyone is so upset with Ampere.........(sarcasm). Remember, the 3080 is tagged as the flagship, the 3090 is a Titan replacement, hence its price point. I'm sorry if the lack of the word Titan in the name seems to confuse so many. 

You (and many others, me too!) may want to pay less, and I get it, but if it was priced outlandishly, one would think they had issues with them sitting on the shelves. You take what the market gives you. Capitalism.


----------



## Super XP (Sep 29, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Well, priced higher I can agree with. Overpriced... doesn't seem so considering how many they sold.
> 
> The person you originally quoted over this cites a $500 flagship GPU from 2013 (GTX 780 as 780Ti is a lot more pricey along with the first titan...so his information is 'off' a bit, hence why I originally quoted him and asked "do tell" to which we never saw the poster gain. So, fast forward 7 years you have a $800 flagship that is multiple times faster than said previous flagship. I can see why everyone is so upset with Ampere.........(sarcasm).
> 
> You (and many others) may want to pay less, and I get it, but if it was priced that high, one would think they had issues with them sitting on the shelves. You take what the market gives you. Capitalism.


I suppose we will agree to disagree. Despite living in a capitalist country, I don't agree with it. 
It is what it is, and I understand why Nvidia prices it's GPUs high, because there's no real competition beyond the RTX 2070S. Hence the premium prices they can get away with.


----------



## N3M3515 (Sep 29, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Do tell.



Well, i was talking about the flagship price normaly being $500, but now it is $1500 (3090), But i see your point in it being a "TITAN CLASS" (moniker created to charge infinite money for meh increase).

Going back a few years a found out sort of a trend, every time nvidia thought there was no competition, they rised the price from $500 to more less $650 - $750:
Examples: 8800 GTX, 8800 ultra, GTX 280, GTX 780. The other gpus were all $500 (GTX 480, GTX 580, GTX 680). Something else i saw, was that nvidia found out that they could put a Ti next to their latest gpu and charge $250 more for it (GTX 780ti, GTX 980ti, 1080ti, etc). So the vanilla x80 isn't the flagship anymore (well for nvidia it is so they can charge 250+ for the ti and it would be the ENTHUSIAST LEVEL GPU lol) 

Also the x60 gpu (which had been always a $199 - $220 and now $350) was always 50% more less performance of the flagship, and also you could always buy current gen x60 and it would be on par or slightly better perf than previous gen flagship. Until well......nvidia and amd decided not, so present day the only way to have previous gen flagship performance is to shell out $500(sound familiar?) for the x70 and more often than not, the x70 is always a bit slower than previous gen flagship (yes, the Ti, or is it "TITAN CLASS" also?)

And who can forget about "founders edition" idiot tax...

But hey, inflation, no competition, supply and demand, right? (unless nvidia and amd could artificially reduce stock so they can jack up the prices) 
I guess gpus have become too mainstream? just like cellphones that keep going up and up to the price stratosphere. That's off topic, sorry.


----------



## EarthDog (Sep 29, 2020)

N3M3515 said:


> Well, i was talking about the flagship price normaly being $500, but now it is $1500 (3090), But i see your point in it being a "TITAN CLASS" (moniker created to charge infinite money for meh increase).
> 
> Going back a few years a found out sort of a trend, every time nvidia thought there was no competition, they rised the price from $500 to more less $650 - $750:
> Examples: 8800 GTX, 8800 ultra, GTX 280, GTX 780. The other gpus were all $500 (GTX 480, GTX 580, GTX 680). Something else i saw, was that nvidia found out that they could put a Ti next to their latest gpu and charge $250 more for it (GTX 780ti, GTX 980ti, 1080ti, etc). So the vanilla x80 isn't the flagship anymore (well for nvidia it is so they can charge 250+ for the ti and it would be the ENTHUSIAST LEVEL GPU lol)
> ...



2006...
8800GTX = $600.
8800GTX Ultra = $830

2008...
GTX 280 = $649

2010...
GTX 480 = $500
GTX 580 = $500

2012...
GTX 680 = $500

2013...
GTX 780 = $650.
GTX 780 Ti = $700
Titan = $1000

2015...
GTX 980Ti = $649

2017...
GTX 1080Ti = $649

2018...
RTX 2080 Ti = $999

2020...
RTX 3080 = $800
RTX 3090/Titan replacement = $1500

RE: FE tax.... you do realize they are not reference cards, right? They are better hardware wise and the cooler worked a lot better then the noisy blowers.

So, yeah... 14 years ago, we had an $800+ flagship...That went down a decade ago to $500 (competition, among other things, FTW!). For the last 3 generations prior to Turing $650 for the flagship. I'm not sure I care about pricing from a decade ago, honestly.

I digress as well...just wanted to clarify some information (and I couldn't care less about Ti's or whatever that brings - users who do need to get over it).


----------



## N3M3515 (Sep 29, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> 2006...
> 8800GTX = $600.
> 8800GTX Ultra = $830
> 
> ...



Yeah, agree to disagree, although you just wrote the same thing i did . Any comment on the x60 topic?


----------



## Super XP (Sep 29, 2020)

2015...
*GTX 980Ti = $649 - Fair Enough, *
2017...
*GTX 1080Ti = $649 - Fair Enough, *
2018...
RTX 2080 Ti = $999 - $350 price premium?? LOL, OverPriced!
2020...
RTX 3080 = $800 - WAY OverPriced!
RTX 3090/Titan replacement = $1500 - Ridiculous and for what? 10% performance over the 3080? Which already runs way too hot causing stability issues? No Thanks!


----------



## N3M3515 (Sep 29, 2020)

Super XP said:


> RTX 2080 Ti = $999 - $350 price premium?? LOL, OverPriced!



$1200!!! UBER priced. But i guess supply and demand!


----------



## mlambert890 (Sep 29, 2020)

ratirt said:


> That is a silly thing to say you know.
> The horse-drawn carriage considering the inflation would cost $100k now since 100 years ago.
> The prices for the cards are high. The advancement in the tech is supposedly make it cheaper not more expensive. There is more things to consider and put into the equation than just, price difference and your inflation.



Adjusting for inflation is a silly thing? Regardless of this hardware “debate”, you need to understand that you are profoundly, objectively wrong here. Don’t argue.  Take a moment to stop assuming you’re right and do a little reading about economics.

Adjusting for inflation is a *foundational* component of economic theory.  It’s *vital* to adjust for inflation in order to properly assess real income, real cost of goods, and as a result spending power over time.  The raise you get every year is *pegged against inflation*.  The way you know it isn’t enough is because your spending power relative to 5 years ago, adjusting for actual inflation rates, has gone down.

Forget video cards. This is something you need to actually learn for *life in general*

And by the way, adjusted for inflation a premium horse and buggy would cost $25,000 today and the average worker salary at the time would equate to about $9000 a year in today’s dollars.  Average salary today is around $25k at the lowest end, and average new car price is $38k.  So the relative cost of personal transportation has gone down thanks to the car.

See why adjusting for inflation is important to understand?


----------



## Super XP (Sep 29, 2020)

mlambert890 said:


> *Adjusting for inflation is a silly thing?* Regardless of this hardware “debate”, you need to understand that you are profoundly, objectively wrong here. Don’t argue.  Take a moment to stop assuming you’re right and do a little reading about economics.
> 
> *Adjusting for inflation is a *foundational* component of economic theory.*  It’s *vital* to adjust for inflation in order to properly assess real income, real cost of goods, and as a result spending power over time.  The raise you get every year is *pegged against inflation*.  The way you know it isn’t enough is because your spending power relative to 5 years ago, adjusting for actual inflation rates, has gone down.
> 
> ...


I agree you have to adjust for inflation or you or your company is left behind. 
That said, its alright to adjust for inflation but not on products that are already OverPriced to begin with. In this case Nvidia GPUs, sure many will disagree of course.


----------



## EarthDog (Sep 29, 2020)

N3M3515 said:


> Any comment on the x60 topic?


Honestly.. I don't care. 

History is just that. Today is today. I miss 25c stamps and 25c sodas... but, what are you going to do? 

Bitching and whining on forums just gets old.


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## Tomorrow (Sep 29, 2020)

N3M3515 said:


> Yeah, agree to disagree, although you just wrote the same thing i did . Any comment on the x60 topic?


No he did not. He just proved your assertion wrong. Prices have gone up and down. Current prices and not some new high like you claim.



Super XP said:


> 2015...
> *GTX 980Ti = $649 - Fair Enough, *
> 2017...
> *GTX 1080Ti = $649 - Fair Enough, *
> ...


Why are you comparing 980Ti and 1080Ti prices with 3080's inflated demand enduced price right now? 3080's MSRP is $699. How is that way overpriced for a card 50-70% faster than 1080Ti?
Also you say $1500 is ridiculous and neglect to mention than Titan RTX that preceded it was $2500. And what stability issues does 3090 cause? So far i've seen problems with 3080.


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## Dimi (Sep 29, 2020)

I paid $499 for my Ati Radeon 9800 Pro in 2003. 

According to an inflation calculator, that would be the equivalent of $704, 89 today.

A Voodoo2 12mb was $299 if i remember correctly. I paid $199 for the 8mb model.

People just like to complain about everything these days.


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## N3M3515 (Sep 29, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Honestly.. I don't care.
> 
> History is just that. Today is today. I miss 25c stamps and 25c sodas... but, what are you going to do?
> 
> Bitching and whining on forums just gets old.



Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion right?, you see one way, i see another.


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## ratirt (Sep 30, 2020)

mlambert890 said:


> Adjusting for inflation is a silly thing? Regardless of this hardware “debate”, you need to understand that you are profoundly, objectively wrong here. Don’t argue. Take a moment to stop assuming you’re right and do a little reading about economics.
> 
> Adjusting for inflation is a *foundational* component of economic theory. It’s *vital* to adjust for inflation in order to properly assess real income, real cost of goods, and as a result spending power over time. The raise you get every year is *pegged against inflation*. The way you know it isn’t enough is because your spending power relative to 5 years ago, adjusting for actual inflation rates, has gone down.
> 
> ...


Listen, if you would like to talk economics then be my guest. Throwing random words like inflation and adjusting price is not correct. Inflation rate in USA for instance starting from 2017 till 2020 was 1.7% average. This is nothing and there are more important things to consider so please don't put inflation to justify somebody else's wrong doings. Well, business is business. You adjust for inflation only when the inflation is growing or is being excessively high. In USA the inflation from 2017 2.14% dropped to 0.62% in 2020. The fact of the matter is, you don't adjust products price considering any inflation numbers from over a decade ago like your silly example of 8800 Ultra that would cost $1k now for example. Maybe in poorly developed countries that would be correct cause their inflation is sky-rocking.
So no. I still disagree with you because you say one thing and then go with another.


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## Prima.Vera (Sep 30, 2020)

It's October 1st tomorrow:
Waiting on nGreedia to confirm this wasn't a paper lunch only:


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## ratirt (Sep 30, 2020)

Prima.Vera said:


> It's October 1st tomorrow:
> Waiting on nGreedia to confirm this wasn't a paper lunch only:
> 
> View attachment 170228


I think it kinda has been a paper launch. 
In Norway you can order now but you will need to wait up to two months for the delivery or till January 2021. Of course that's a prediction and I've seen these dates moving further.
Maybe in a different country it looks better.


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## Super XP (Sep 30, 2020)

Tomorrow said:


> No he did not. He just proved your assertion wrong. Prices have gone up and down. Current prices and not some new high like you claim.
> 
> 
> Why are you comparing 980Ti and 1080Ti prices with 3080's inflated demand enduced price right now? 3080's MSRP is $699. How is that way overpriced for a card 50-70% faster than 1080Ti?
> Also you say $1500 is ridiculous and neglect to mention than Titan RTX that preceded it was $2500. And what stability issues does 3090 cause? So far i've seen problems with 3080.


I was replying back to someone else's comment. But it doesn't matter really, because Comparing the 980Ti to the 1080Ti to the 2080Ti and so on is how you compare if they are fairly priced or not. So you think the 2080Ti premium of over $350 was a fair deal? Absolutely Not.
The Titan RTX was an overpriced waste of money.

And to respond about the 50-70% faster than 1080Ti, that is totally irrelevant. You are comparing 2 different generational cards.


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## Tomorrow (Sep 30, 2020)

Super XP said:


> I was replying back to someone else's comment. But it doesn't matter really, because Comparing the 980Ti to the 1080Ti to the 2080Ti and so on is how you compare if they are fairly priced or not. So you think the 2080Ti premium of over $350 was a fair deal? Absolutely Not.
> The Titan RTX was an overpriced waste of money.
> 
> And to respond about the 50-70% faster than 1080Ti, that is totally irrelevant. You are comparing 2 different generational cards.


Did you notice that if did not mention 2080Ti once?
That's because it was an anomaly. Bad price, bad card. I think it's also irrelevant card right now. And since there is no Ti yet the only valid comparsuion is 3080 right now.
The top of the line card - no matter if it's called Titan or not has never been a good value. Im amazed how people still have not learned that and complain about it's price. $1500 is too much? Great - get the 3080 for half of that and it's only 10-15% slower.

And the performance does matter. 70% faster ~3,5 years later for the same MSRP is pretty good imho. Again i don't count Turing in this comparison because that was all around bad value.


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## Super XP (Sep 30, 2020)

Tomorrow said:


> Did you notice that if did not mention 2080Ti once?
> That's because it was an anomaly. Bad price, bad card. I think it's also irrelevant card right now. And since there is no Ti yet the only valid comparsuion is 3080 right now.
> The top of the line card - no matter if it's called Titan or not has never been a good value. Im amazed how people still have not learned that and complain about it's price. $1500 is too much? Great - get the 3080 for half of that and it's only 10-15% slower.
> 
> And the performance does matter. 70% faster ~3,5 years later for the same MSRP is pretty good imho. Again i don't count Turing in this comparison because that was all around bad value.


I'm well aware how this industry works thank you. 
And yes the Turding lineup was a total ripoff line as claimed by actual Nvidia Fanboys. Anyhow doesn't matter what price premium Nvidia decides. The Titan is overpriced and for what? A measly 10% performance over the 3080? That already has many reports of crashing. No PC Gaming GPU should cost that much. And pricing these gaming GPUs at an unessesry price premium where one don't deserve, ends up setting up future OverPricing. 
AMD aren't little Angels by any stretch, but this time around I hope they Don't mindlessly overpriced there GPUs either. As competition should automatically regulate fair pricing access the board.


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## Prima.Vera (Oct 2, 2020)

Seriously, is it yet any place that we can buy the RTX 3080 at "normal" prices?? Everywhere is still sold out....When will this s#it stop??


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## EarthDog (Oct 4, 2020)

pipes said:


> perché gli americani vogliono il mondo a loro immagine e somiglianza?
> Visto che il loro modo di vivere è criticato ed è poco costruttivo...boh!!!


English speaking forum...


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## techguymaxc (Oct 6, 2020)

pipes said:


> perché gli americani vogliono il mondo a loro immagine e somiglianza?
> Visto che il loro modo di vivere è criticato ed è poco costruttivo...boh!!!



Please tell us more about your inferiority complex.


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## EarthDog (Oct 6, 2020)

TxGrin said:


> RTX 3080
> 
> 
> 
> ...


FUrmark, lol.

That said, I have no idea the point you are trying to make in reference to this thread/who you're talking to.


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## Super XP (Oct 6, 2020)

Prima.Vera said:


> Seriously, is it yet any place that we can buy the RTX 3080 at "normal" prices?? Everywhere is still sold out....When will this s#it stop??


Have patients, WAIT for RDAN2 GPUs to come out, then decide. And by then the RTX 3080 should be closer to its MSRP.


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