# Tkpenalty's X1950~HD4k Clubhouse



## tkpenalty (Jan 7, 2007)

*X1k~HD3k Clubhouse*

A support group for all X1950, HD2k, and HD3k Owners. 







This thread is a chat as well as an unofficial support thread.

_Note: Zero spam tolerance_

UPDATE: If you want to suggest a change, please do it with MANNERS. Please do NOT slander in a request. This applies to EVERYBODY, in wake of recent events I shall report YOU if you decide to step out of line. Thank you. 


_For users looking at buying aftermarket cooling please read on, there are some very important issues relating to the X1950PRO using the reference cooler CTRL+F L1 to instantly gain access to it_






























=================================
*CONTENTS*
=================================


> 0a NOTICES
> 1a GPU INFO (X1950 >>> HD3k)
> -K1 X1950 Series in General
> -K2 X1950PRO/GT RECOMMENDED(RV570)
> ...


=================================
*0a NOTICES*
=================================



> *1/2/08*
> *URGENT: Support for X1k EXCEPT X1950 series discontinued. Only the X1950GPUs from the X1k series are now supported.*
> 
> *People who need to follow the following criteria in the PM to join, if you did not get a reply or weren't accepted please read and re PM. 9/2/07*
> ...



=================================
=================================
*1a GPU Info.*
=================================
This part provides information about each high tier GPU, only information on GPUs that have been released, this database is not complete and thus i would like your input into it. 


=================================
*K1 X1950 Series in General *
=================================
The X1950 Series is basically a revamp of the already revamped X1900 series, in this, the X1950 Series is also compatible with AGP, via the Rialto Chipset. The main (or real) models available to the X1950 Series are the X1950XTX, X1950XT, X1950PRO and X1950GTs. There are several variants including sapphire’s X1950PRO Dual, which is in fact two X1950PROs fused on one PCB, allowing for internal crossfire. Initially the X1950XT uses the same core as the X1950XTX, the R580+, however with slower memory, the X1950XTX having the insanely high clocking GDDR4 (2x1GHZ).

_On a side note I recommend the reference cooling solution on the X1950XT/PRO/GT be swapped (excluding pre-installed aftermarket coolers/premium; including ASUS and HIS’s ICEQ III_


=======================
*K2 X1950PRO, GT RECOMMENDED*
=======================
The X1950PRO, GT and X1650XT are all similar, they are all based off the R580 Core, however the X1950PRO and GT have a Quad disabled, while the X1650XT has two full Quads disabled (Rendering Pipelines), the X1950PRO and GT have the RV570, 80nm core and the X1650XT has the RV560 80nm core. The lower end models however do not use a disabled R580 core, they are radically different (however ineffective) designs. Overall RV570 clocks higher than the R580+ but they do not have the same performance (worse) due to the disabled quads (pipelines are manufactured in quads, 4 each, RV560 has two quads, or 8 ROPs, RV570 has three quads or 12 ROPs then finally the R580+ has the full four quads, or 16 ROPs, they heavily impact on performance in AMD/ATI’s GPUs but are less significant when compared to NVIDIA’s range). Moreover the RV570, RV560 DO NOT contain the extra quad that the R580+ has. 

The X1950PRO is basically a revision of the X1900GT in which several improvements are made, including:
-Change from 90nm process to 80nm process
-Improved reference cooler
-Higher Clockspeed
-Internal “Native” Crossfire, is basically just the use of two Crossfire bridges (Similar to SLI), a serial connection making crossfire more effective, and removing the need for a master and slave card or software crossfire. Many manufacturers have decided to adopt aftermarket cooling/premium cooling solutions, a list of brand names which use aftermarket/premium cooling is here (The brands to look out for):

-HIS (IceQIII, made by Artic Cooling)
-Powercolor (AcceleroS1/X2)
-Gigabyte (VF700ALCU on all X1950PROs)
-Sapphire (VF900CU on X1950PRO Ultimate)
-ASUS (Premium ASUS Heatpipe cooler on all models)

The Cheapest brands would be:

-Jetway
-Palit
-Club 3D
-Powercolor (Newer revision of X1950PRO, uses the reference X1950GT PCB and cooler; the Jetway version, yes its ugly, but its cheap and fast and will last longer than the digital VRM users… like me)

The X1950GT is a slower clocked X1950PRO and is around 15% slower, initially the X1950PRO was released first to contend with the GeForce 7900GS, however it beat it in almost every benchmark (except OpenGL), and also beat the 7900GT. Thus ATI Decided to introduce the X1950GT, even though a bit slower it still easily beat the 7900GS, but not the 7900GT. It was introduced almost half a year later. 

The X1950PRO and GT are GPUs that need voltage increases to be able to be overclocked, just to obtain a 50mhz overclock on the core and have it run without artifacts needs the voltage to be increased, however problems arise here as no program at the moment supports voltage increasing. This can only be done by flashing the bios itself, go to Ketxxx’s bios thread to obtain bioses _(a database of his bioses will be uploaded soon)_. ATIFlash is the only program that supports flashing of the RV570, other programs will not detect the RV570 as an adapter. 

ATI Tool 0.27 supports overclocking but is plagued with bugs, you have to enable driver level overclocking and overclocking the X1950PRO/GT to 621mhz will make the card unstable, due to the lack of voltages. 

The overclockability of the core is also determined by the “quality” of the core, generally the X1950GT uses the RV570LE, “Lite edition” in which it cannot achieve the clockspeed that the X1950PRO, RV570XT can. However as seen from statistics, this is NOT the case. In fact most X1950GTs are just X1950PROs with a Slower clocked bios; Sapphire's X1950GTs is a PERFECT example of this, being manufactured on the same machines, then just randomly selected to be a X1950GT.

Overall the X1950PRO and GT are High-Mid range cards which boast excellent performance for their price. In crossfire they outperform one X1950XTX by a fair margin. In my opinion, I would recommend it for budget gamers. However read section L2 for more info. 

UPDATE 14/8/07: The stock cooling solution on the X1950PRO/GTs for Sapphire is now a sound solution, Sapphire has decided to use an aluminium + Copper mix for their cooler, moreover with the exhaust of the cooler facing towards the front; thus reducing any heat build-up on the PCB. Whilst it MAY be ineffective for overclocking it IS practical. Do not worry about the VRM issue anymore, as sapphire uses a large aluminium heatsink to cool it, with the exhaust blowing the heat away. If you are indeed scared it will burn out and die, don’t worry, fact is it will last for around 4~6 years before problems show. Older GPUs (9800 series) ran way hotter just for the record. 

UPDATE 1/1/08: The X1950PRO is an invaluable value card, mature drivers, good performance for today’s latest games, excellent price, buy it before it is EOL completely

=======================
*K3a X1950XT *
=======================


The X1950XT is a GPU which has the R580+ Core, it is a X1950XTX with lesser features, including the use of GDDR3 rather than the insanely high clocking GDDR4 and a lower clockspeed overall. It has the full four quads (16ROPs) and all the pipelines are enabled unlike the RV570. The R580+ is manufactured on the 90nm process and runs far hotter than the RV570. The X1950XT features Digital PWM/VRMs like the X1950PRO, it is the same length as the X1950PRO. 

The stock cooling solution on the X1950XT is a dual slot blower, it intakes air via a fan and the air blasts through the heatpipe and copper cooler, the exhaust then blows air over the VRMs which have a large red aluminium heatsink on it. In effect the cooler is great however it is extremely loud and thus being one of the major shortcomings (just to let you know, it sounds like an F1). The cooling solution on low fan speeds is mediocre, with temperatures soaring to the 70*C~80*C mark. Oddly enough the only company at the moment which ships their X1950XTs with aftermarket cooling is Powercolor, shipping their favourite AcceleroX2 with it. The major plus is that the AcceleroX2 is silent at max fan speeds. The X1950XT overall does not have such a major issue like the X1950PRO has. 

The X1950XT requires the X1950XTX Crossfire Master card in order to perform crossfire, the X1950XTX crossfire master slows to X1950XT speeds upon crossfire. It is priced a bit more expensive than the X1950XTX itself. Crossfire in this manner will heed excellent results. 

Overclocking the X1950XT is simple, download ATI Tool and overclock, just be weary of the heat once you overclock. The X1950XT has software voltage control as well as well as a properly working fan controller. 

 UPDATE: At this point of time, the X1950XT is a card that is worth its money in terms of raw performance, however note that its possibly EOL

=======================
*K3b X1950XTX *
=======================

The X1950XTX shares the same core as the X1950XT (R580+), however everything else is almost entirely different. The X1950XTX has the Insanely high clocking GDDR4 which runs cooler than GDDR3, it has more lax latencies but overall the performance is better, it clocks to 1000Mhz on stock, this is without the DDR Multiplication, thus effectively 2000Mhz. 

One of the most notable features of the X1950XTX is the fact that it uses a premium cooler, the Cooler itself reassembles HIS’s ICEQIII. The cooler itself is an amalgamation of aluminium fins and copper heatpipes. The RAM cooling is a separate C shaped heatsink, that can be left on when water cooling is needed. Overall, the cooler can be said to be better than aftermarket, or on par as it is relatively silent. 

Everything else is the same as the X1950XT overall, also needing the X1950 Crossfire master. 

UPDATE: At this point of time, the X1950XT is a card that is worth its money in terms of raw performance, however note that its possibly EOL

=======================
*K4 HD2400PRO/HD2400XT*
=======================
The HD2400s are NOT for gaming whatsoever. They assume the role of the X1050s, however with one added feature, HDMI and as well as HD Decoding. I repeat, it is not for any gaming, well you WILL be able to play some games, but at like 640x480, not that that presents a major problem. 

Notably, the HDMI is something that makes this card HTPC worthy, moreover with the low heat output (due to the small die size and 65nm process) it furthers this role. Generally manufacturers use passive cooling solutions for these graphics cards.

However, crossfire is a COMPLETE GIMMICK; don’t think about using Crossfire with two HD2400PRO/XTs, it is simply not plausible. The price tag is relatively low, thus making it a viable option for budget builds as well. Priced at around $50 to $60 USD.(<that’s overpriced btw.. some reason we get it cheaper in Australia)

These GPUs are ideal for HTPC systems for their features that they pose, with superior UVD decoding compared to the NVIDIA counterparts, and as well as less heat output and power usage.

_Warning: Forget about DX10, even if it IS DX10, it will still need to run at extremely low settings, which cancel out the “new features of DX10”…_

=======================
*K5 HD2600PRO*
=======================
A step up, but yet yields mediocre performance. Again, not a card designed with gaming in mind as the main feature. Many enthusiasts expected the HD2600PRO to be at LEAST as fast as a 8600GT, but this apparently is not the case. Again, HDMI and HDCP and HD Decoding is a winning feature, the pricing as well. Its yet another budget card, being cheap as well.

The card runs cool, same as the HD2400PRO/XTs. Performance is around a 8500GT realistically, and worse sometimes, however don’t let this deter you, as the price tag is VERY cheap. It is still cheaper than a 8600GT yet, having a decent set of features as aforementioned. 

Same story as above, Crossfire with these cards is not worth it. One major problem that AMD needs to address is the specifications:

128 bit Bandwidth
*4 ROPs*
120 Stream processors

Highlighted in bold is the amount of ROPs, these pipelines are what the card needs to pump out vertexes and textures, the main problem that the HD2600PRO and the HD2600XT share is the fact that this is a low amount. While there is a massive 120 Stream processors which completely “destroys” the 8600GTS’s 36, the ROPs are a major bottleneck, preventing the 120 Stream processors from being utilized. AMD after manufacturing the cores saw this problem and the price of these GPUs is very cheap due to this. 

The GPU is a value 

=======================
*K6 HD2600XT GDDR3*
=======================
Similar as above, a minor step up with a slightly better in comparison. Almost everything is the same, the performance however is somewhat better than the 8600GT. The higher core clock as well as the memory clock is to account for this. At first AMD planned to have an external power connector, but this has been canned due to the low power usage.

Nevertheless the same problems are shared with the HD2600PRO. Being priced around $110 to $150 USD, it is somewhat similarly priced as the 8600GT. As stated before, it has HDMI, HD Decoding and HDCP, the large difference in price is due to the cooling.

Sapphire has a standard model with a small fansink. It is satisfactory and keeps the card within the limits and isn’t too bad. Now we jump to Powercolor, a $20 more expensive, having a premium cooling solution; aluminium flower heat sink with fan. These solutions are common with the HD2600XT GDDR3. It is relatively difficult to find a HD2600XT GDDR3 without any sort of aftermarket cooling. Physically the PCB is rather small, ideal for HTPC environments with the decent heat output.

To the next point, for gamers, the X1950PRO is a better option, but generally HDMI and UVD are invaluable for HTPC environments, this card would be a far better option in contrast, at the price range of around $140 USD on average. 


=======================
*K7 HD2600XT GDDR4*
=======================
Everything is the same as above, except with several things:
-Memory
-PCB Size
-Performance
-Price

This GPU uses GDDR4. Not only does the memory run cooler, it runs faster. There is no huge performance difference but it certainly improves. However, there IS one problem, Sapphire’s X1950PRO 256MB, (latest revision), is $20 cheaper and yet, will simply blow it out of the water. To put it this way, it ISNT a gaming card, but a multimedia, having HDMI, etc.  Look somewhere else, no even the mid range 8 series are as bad. A 7900GS/X1950PRO is a better substitute if gaming is your code. 

=======================
*K8 R600 (HD2900XT, PRO, GT)*
=======================
_UPDATED: 1/1/08_

A MASSIVE step up from the HD2600 and HD2400s. The HD2600XT is the R600 that had a huge rumour base, one side saying it was a monster, the other saying it was a failure. However it is in between. With the Drivers constantly getting better, the performance of the HD2900XT is between a 8800GTS 640MB and a 8800GTX 786MB. It has all the features (except low heat output) that the other HD series GPUs have as well to add on. 

Performance wise, the HD2900XT is sometimes faster than an 8800GTX 786MB. It is fairly cheap, for the performance in brought in Q3/Q2 2007, however this has been superseded by the newer die shrunken high end GPUs from both sides (RV670/G92). 

Thus why the price of the HD2900XT is steadily dropping as the newer generation of cards do better for a lower price. However, being more relevant to before, the HD2900XT performed around a 8800GTS 640MB, with the drivers at the moment mature, we can now see its performance.

However the major problem about the GPU is the monstrous heat output and the power usage. Guzzling 190W, and needing a cooling solution that is better than aftermarket solutions that were designed for the previous generation of GPUs, is one of the largest drawbacks of the GPU. Moreover, even aftermarket cooling yields a small drop in temperatures that is generally not worth it. 

Thanks to the dropping prices, this card now is a good contender in terms of bang for buck, a proper 500W+ PSU at the least is required to run this card, with the PSU made by a well known and reputable manufacturer.

Overall the HD3870/HD3850 now is a far better choice to look at now thanks to their lower power consumption and heat output, while delivering virtually the same performance

=================================
*K9. HD3850/HD3870 RV670 – MOST RECOMMENDED * 
=================================

The RV670 is initially a revised R600, sporting a massive die shrink which equals much less power usage compared to the predecessor, and slightly improved performance thanks to several small tweaks with the core. Overall, with less heat output, cooling is much less exquisite and the card generates less heat and uses less power in all. 

The performance of the HD3850 can be compared to the HD2900PRO, however performance varies greatly in accordance to the manufacturer; how far they push the memory, and what type of memory that they use both account for the performance. However the heat output of the card is NOWHERE near the HD3850s, requiring only a light heatsink, such as a VF700ALCU for reference to cool to temperatures that are good. (Example, ASUS ROG cooler, 35*C Idle, 48*C load) (105W Usage)

The HD3870 on the other hand can be compared with the HD2900XT, however with more performance to boot. The Power usage is almost the same as the HD3850, as well as the heat output, only having slightly more heat output. (125W Usage)

Physically both cards have rather satisfactory reference design coolers, the HD3850 having a cooler that is reminiscent of the X1950PRO’s reference cooler, with the MOSFETs requiring cooling once the cooler is removed, the memory ICs are bare as well. Overall, thanks to the low heat output the cooler remains fairly quiet, however this is thanks to the low fan speed which accounts for its satisfactory temperatures, in which most think are hell. 

The HD3870 on the other hand has a dual slot cooler which looks large, however the cooling solution is not very impressive, with a fan that is quiet as well, no heatpipes. Temperatures hover within the same region as the HD3850, and the cooler is a three piece, one mosfet heatsink, one RAM heatsink, and the GPU heatsink itself, all of which are manufactured from copper. Generally for aftermarket solutions, it would be wise to only remove the GPU heatsink as the MOSFET and RAM heatsink both are more than good enough for the task.

Pricewise, the HD3850 is around $170-$200, indirectly competing with the 8600GTS which is FAR inferior, making the HD3850 even more desirable to buy as the performance more than doubles the 8600GTS.

The HD3870 on the other hand is more around $250, competing with the 8800GT which costs more and offers less bang for buck, and has a rather loud cooler, lack of HDMI, etcetera. A less convincing argument to buy the HD3870 over the 8800GT is the noticeable superiority in the IQ and image quality of the two GPUs in comparison, moreover the more consistent framerate (a claim made by many HD3870 adopters, and 8800GT sellers that purchased HD3870s) might also be convincing-who wants to game when one second its smooth and the next choppy? 

Recommended brands:
-Sapphire (Tier 1) (PCB construction quality, RMA warranty)
-Gigabyte (Ultra Durable, good cooling, construction quality)
-ASUS (ROG edition, good cooling, Company of heroes ftw!)
-Powercolor (PCS/Extreme, excellent cooling)

_Personal comment in regards to gigabyte_
I noticed with the X1950PRO from gigabyte there were a lot of negative comments about the construction quality, which I think would be relevant to the HD3850/HD3870

_”Cheap PCB”_
Gigabyte’s components are far superior in comparison to the reference design, moreover the reference design runs rather warm thanks to the less phases it has. 

_”Crappy cooler”_
The VF700ALCU is a heavily underrated cooler, it does far better than the reference HD3850/HD3870 and is quieter at the same time. I have no idea why people think when something’s old, its crap. Its not at all. 

Reference HD3850: 





Reference HD3870: 





=================================
*2a. Articles*
================================= 
[/quote]*L1 ISSUES WITH THE X1950PRO & THIRD PARTY COOLING*
_New owners of X1950PROs who would want to use aftermarket cooling should read this_

The reference PCB of the GPU is very bare with a low capacitor count, the reason is because the X1950PRO's reference PCB designers opted to use the VRM and PWM chips in place of a capacitor barrage. This in turn makes for a more simplified PCB in which not that many capacitors are needed; they replace the capacitors and MOFSETs. There is a double-edged sword to this, the fact that these chips generate such an immense amount of heat. People know what they are but on the reference cooler, they weren’t made obvious. They were also used previously on the X1900XTXs and XTs as well as X1800XTs, but they were made obvious by small red heatsink. Due to the design of the X1950PRO's reference heatsink shown below:

http://img5.pcpop.com/ProductImages/500x375/0/254/000254415.jpg

It is one piece and thus upon removal you also remove the cooling that the heatsink gives. Many people were unaware that the X1950PRO actually had them then problems arose when they decided to get aftermarket cooling (after all, the X1950PRO’s reference cooler isn’t sufficient), with the VRMs burning out because of the lack of cooling installed

Chips indicated here are in need of heatsinking, if your layout of your PCB is the same regardless of cooler, if it has the VTEC or Pulse chip, then you have a VRM model.

http://img.techpowerup.org/070226/dwwdwddwdw.jpg 

However many AIB manufacturers identified this problem and addressed it by using capacitors in stead of using the VRM units, this would make the GPU a little more cumbersome however. Sapphire for the X1950GT, now has used the X1950GT for the X1950PRO as well. 

*Known manufacturers that use VRM unit X1950PROs:*
-ATI
-Powercolor
-Sapphire 
-HIS 
-Diamond (AGP MODEL ONLY)

If your X1950PRO uses the reference cooler, It automatically is a VRM unit, thus buy yourself a pack of Aluminium/Copper heatsinks and install them, the spares, well put them on the MOFSETS. 

Notes: 
-Powercolor X1950PRO Extreme/Silent already has small black ceramic heatsinks, these are more than enough
-Powercolor has now adopted a new PCB, which does not use VRMs for the normal models which do not use Arctic cooling coolers.
-HIS Use VRMs but they have a large copper heatsink which is clipped on, same with the ICEQ III and standard model
-Sapphire’s stock cooler is not enough, aftermarket cooling is needed if you want to have the card last.
-Sapphire now has switched to the X1950GT’s PCB, VRM cooling is not needed, however left-over-stock X1950PROs will still use the stock cooler*Sapphire now uses the X1950GT Cooler, BUT the reference X1950PRO PCB, they use a large aluminium heatsink for the VRM cooling which is TWO PIECE. Give sapphire a clap guys  *
-Sapphire’s X1950PRO Ultimate has a large gold aluminium heat sink for the VRMs attached by epoxy
-ATI are still using the stock cooler, due to the fact that its full copper! Other manufacturers use an aluminium and copper mix, sapphire has recently even made a full aluminium. 
-Unless you want to overclock or have a silent PC, the normal cooler should do you fine.
-Use these heatsinks, with the spares use them for something else http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118220[/quote]

UPDATE: READ THIS:




Lt_JWS said:


> Well since i cant get crossfire to work I need to get rid of this card fast.  Its just a bare card with the AC AcceleroX2 and 1 New HIS Crossfire bridge.
> 
> $130 + Shipping in the US
> 
> ...



This guy didn’t read this thread... now to make it more obvious:

=================================
*L2 Best air coolers for X1950Series*
=================================


> This is in terms of the thermal setup that the cooler is installed in, please realize these are based off purely statistics. Its not compulsory to have aftermarket cooling but recommended, aren't you annoyed by that annoying buzzing stock cooler? Statistics show that most ATI stock coolers are drab, cooling at the borderline thresholds before overheating occurs; 80*C~90*C usually. Moreover the coolers are relatively noisy and shorten the lifespan of your graphics card.
> 
> REMEMBER: X1950PRO REQUIRES VRM COOLING IF YOUR X1950PRO HAS THE REFERENCE PCB DESIGN  AND YOU WOULD LIKE TO BUY AFTERMARKET COOLERS, PLEASE REMEMBER TO BUY THIRD-PARTY HEATSINKS IF YOUR X1950PRO's!!! (Excluding the AcceleroX2 "compatible with X1950PRO")
> 
> ...



=================================
*L3. Best Air coolers for HD2400/HD2600 Series + Installation and Warning notes.*
=================================
Please note, this section is to refer to coolers that will work with the HD2k Series, EXCLUDING the 2900s. Basically these coolers will work with the HD2400 and HD2600.

First off we must note the heat output of the cards. The HD2400 Series generally tends to have a large and passive heatsink. The fact that the HD2400 Series is not intended for any gaming at all, but for a media centre justifies the lack of the need for any aftermarket solution to be installed. Due to the reasons that:

-Aftermarket cooling will be larger than the stock solution
-The stock cooling solution is more than capable of cooling the graphics card, due to the extremely low heat output of the core.

These are the main two reasons. The only consumers who purchase a HD2400 will probably do no gaming at all. Installing aftermarket solutions moreover presents a installation risk, due to the extremely small die size. It’s a waste of money to buy an aftermarket solution for the HD2400 as the passive solution keeps the temperatures around 35*C~45*C, idle and load, which means that aftermarket cooling is a waste. 

Moreover, overclocking a card will not generate much more heat, thus it is safe to say that the HD2400 is excluded from this article.

The HD2600PRO/XT however, is a different story. Generally their stock coolers are good, yet, may NOT be quiet. Overclocking these cards as well as voltmodding will somewhat overwhelm most stock solutions. 

Now for the coolers that are recommended for the HD2600/HD2400s:

VF700ALCU/CU
As I stated previously, this cooler should not be underestimated. It is inexpensive as well as being a quiet cooler, the HD2600 has a lower heat output in contrast to the X1950s (in the previous article). Overall recommended, I would purchase the ALCU version to cut down on weight however. Expect temperatures ranging from 35*C~45*C Idle, 45*C~50*C Load, at MOST. Be careful to check if the cooler is sitting flat on the chip however, temperatures much worse than this (60*C) is telling you that the cooler is not sitting flush and half of it may be having no contact, this is a substantial issue with the VF700s installed on GPUs with small dies and no shim.

VF900CU
Same as above, however a step up in price, the VF900CU should yield even better results. 30*C Idle ~ 45*C Load.

Other coolers
Generally… HD2600/HD2400s have an extremely low heat output, thus, any other coolers which are stated to be compatible can be considered. However, these two coolers are recommended for their wide availability, especially the VF700, with its low price and good performance.

=================================
*Z1a. PERSONAL COMMENTS*
=================================
Heres just some general advice.
*X1. Regarding purchases*
Anyway, this MAY be sort of going off topic. But the GPUs that you guys should be looking out for are the following:

-X1950PRO/GT
-X1950XT
-HD2900XT/GT/PRO
*X1950PRO/GT*
Well you can say that they are pretty much hot cakes, cheap at around $150USD to $200, nothing in this range is close to it. With the constantly maturing drivers, the performance of this GPU is constantly improving, 7.6, 7.8 both had massive performance increases. Okay for those guys who think 8600GTS is better, scroll down and I’ll slam you with evidence that its NOT. 

*X1950XT* 
In the US it’s only a bit more expensive, there is NOTHING in the price range that is as good as it. Just be warned with the heat output and noise. Its much better than the X1950PRO for sure but the cooling is absolutely atrocious, no I’m not joking… a 7950GT is a possible option >.>.

*HD2900XT*
Well… with the constant driver updates which keep boosting the HD2900XT, the bang for buck is just astounding. It started from around a 8800GTS640, and now its faster and almost as fast as a 8800GTX… for the same price as a 8800GTS 640 is quite remarkable. The cooling sucks. Period. Wait for the SKUs to improve it a bit though, Gigabyte is a fine example, rather than two heatpipes, they shoved three in haha… it cools well in comparison to the normal ones though. 

UPDATES: Apparently most, manufacturers apart from sapphire have caught onto the fact that adding an extra heatpipe makes a HUGE difference in cooling peformance.

Anyway, time to rave, what IS the point of the HD2k series, that’s UNDER a HD2900XT? Honestly same as the 8 series under the 8800s they both share the same problems. Bang for buck wise they aren’t very great. The 8600GTS costs as much as a 7950GT/X1950XT and what… way slower. HD2600XT same story, costs the same as a X1950PRO, yet gets blasted to china. Honestly unless you need HDMI or uber fast HD decoding, DX10 is a lame marketing excuse. 

To any AMD Directors heres something that you can improve about the HD2600XT:

-4 ROPs > 12 ROPS
-120 Stream processors > 100 Stream processors

That’s all that’s needed to catapult the HD2600XT from a low end card to something that kills the X1950PRO… Same story with NVIDIA!!!! Can’t they listen? Yes, low heat output, but most companies are using their own solutions anyway. Is it really that hard? 

*Z2. 8600GTS> X1950PRO; slamming time!*

Anyway apparently some people really think the 8600GTS > X1950PRO. Their argument is indirect and incompetent! X1950PRO CLEARLY is faster in most practical usages. 3D Mark 05/06 is NOT a viable way to really scope the performance of a GPU, Driver optimisations are ALWAYS the case. With a lower fillrate and everything else, it is the reason. Okay another argument, overclocking! Not EVERY consumer who purchases a GPU will overclock, moreover the stock cooling will completely prohibit any overclocking from being possible at all-you heard me NOT EVERYONE OVERCLOCKS. Moreover half of the Nvidia SKUs are lax with their Overclocking (except for good old EVGA ). 

Update: Due to some certain user completely slandering in this thread, I shall clear things up. The 8600GTS is a GOOD card. However an X1950PRO is BETTER in terms of VALUE and PRACTICALITY. If you want a DX10 GPU, the 8600GTS is FINE. (Thanks to AMD’s HD2600XT being targeted towards a lower price range) 




mitsirfishi said:


> well on the sheer basis of bang for buck x1950pro is £70 spend the extra £25-£30 and you can have a x1950xt which is roughly the same price as 8600gt a good gts is around the £140 marker personal opinion id still have the x1950pro over the 8600gts not because i purely own 2 of them and not because im on the ati wagon yes the 8600gts does have a couple of points dx10 one and shading the x1950pro in a few areas but simple fact it is it costs twice as much so in that review you showed where it pulls 4-5fps is it really worth spending that when you could simply oc the x1950 and make up the difference this always have and always will be a big debate over x1950's and 8600gts like the x1950 excels in shading heavy games because of its heavy shaderhorsepowers. 8600 is like the old 6600gt it grabs a few bits from the halfords show it sticks to it and quiet insane clock speeds
> 
> keep a cool head lads



So there you have it. 

*Z3 Rumor Collection*

This is a collection of rumors of the latest products/etcetra. Please do not take any offense to this, it is only to inform people.

*ZX1. RV670*

_Rumor confirmed_

Throughout the past months, (Q3, Q4 2007), we have seen many rumors of the RV670 Emerge. Here is a brief summary of what we know.

The RV670 is a 55nm GPU that only requires single slot cooling. It is due to be released some time in November 2007. The RV670 uses a two phase power regulation circuit, without the digital PWM included, which means the need for capacitors is evident. Thus the mofsets on the reference design REQUIRE cooling. 

(Image shown is the HD3850)

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/07-09-26/front.jpg
http://www.techpowerup.com/img/07-09-26/naked.jpg
http://www.techpowerup.com/img/07-09-26/closeup.jpg

The stock cooler is a dual heatpipe, copper cooler which is single slot. The heatsink for the Mofsets is just a “quality touch” as far as I can tell. However, cooling them once you install an aftermarket solution is recommended. The HD3850 shall be clocked slower than the HD3870, how much we dont know, but the difference is enough to make a 10W power consumption difference.

http://www.twrococ.com/video/3870/3870front.JPG
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/Genocide737/3870na.jpg

The PCB design on the HD3870 is somewhat different. However it still has the same MOFSET positioning. The cooler in my opinion looks satisfactory, being the block inside that red shroud is the actual cooler. The Red shroud is for looks as well as a duct. I'd expect some manufacturers to improve on that block, as there is CLEARLY much space within that duct. MOFSETs in this case are cooled by a small copper heatsink, overall resembling the X1950XTX. 

The RV670 has been called the HD2950PRO at first, then RV670PRO and RV670XT, HD2950PRO and HD2950PRO Respectively. Recently this month it has been confirmed by a few "accidental leaks" that they are now the HD3850 and HD3870.






However gigabyte has taken a logical choice and decided instead to use a three phase circuitry, reducing the load on the MOFSETs thus allowing them to run WITHOUT any form of cooling apart from air. Solid capacitors are used in addition. Moreover the inclusion of the VF700ALCU suggests the low heat output of the card. The cooling solution above on the HD3870 further reinforces this view. (NOTE THIS IS A FUTURE MODEL)

In whole personally, I would choose this card over other manufacturers, solid caps, three phase, means that it will cope with overclocking better. While these can run passive, the other models will not be able to. The VF700ALCU is not to be underestimated as well!

HD3850 = 95W LOAD _Thanks SSXeon for these statistics_
HD3870 = 105W LOAD

Overall, the main reason why it has such a power consumption, doesn equate to the heat it outputs with the core. The fast GDDR3 accounts to the somewhat "high" power usage (however 8800GT is worse).  The performance of this new card is approximately the same as the HD2900XT, better in most cases, it is priced around $50 USD less than the 8800GT, and offers similar performance. The HD3850 on the other hand is only marginally slower than the HD3870, yet even cheaper. There is only the HD3850 in this “optimal” price range. 


*Z4 Recommended Driver Sets*

This is a list of recommended drivers for each series, especially AGP. Note that these recommendations are based off observations from previous experiences, and clubhouse findings (meaning you don’t have to go through almost a hundred pages).

*AGP*

*Recommended Driver: 7.6*

Somewhat problematic, the X1x with especially the X1950PROs, generally had major issues with AGP, with Drivers over 7.6. Issues such as display corruption, and the drivers not even supporting the GPU occurs with installation of the 7.7 and above drivers. With the 7.10 and 7.11 Drivers, there is no AGP support for the X1k and HD2k series. 

Overall for the X1k Series, users should use the 7.6 Drivers.

*HD2k/HD30k EXCEPT HD2600 series*

*Recommended Driver: Latest*

The HD2/3k series both heavily benefit from performance boosts from every driver release. So why not install them? So far there has been a substantial increase in all the HD2k series GPU’s performance thanks to the drivers. 

*HD2600XT*

7.10 Drivers, 7.11 drivers have some performance issues currently. 


=================================
*4a. CLUB MEMBERSHIP/MEMBER LIST*
=================================

**Conditions and Rules* (as of the 26th of September 2007)

-Members now must have 50 posts and over, OR have images of their system and GPU to join (Unless under special circumstances)
-Members do not necessarily need to own a X1k or HD2k series product to be part of the club
-“Fanboy wars” = Instant report. I will not tolerate any sort of fanboy war nonsense. You have been warned, this makes it impossible for people to browse through more than two thousand posts for some information, adding to how bloated it is. 


*Member List*

Leader/Gods/Executives:

-Tkpenalty 100%
Boss



http://img.techpowerup.org/070116/IMG_0019651.jpg
Model: X1950PRO Powercolor Extreme 256MB
STATUS: Up and running
GRIPES: Cant remove the cooler thanks to the memory pads holding the cooler to the card- I mean they hold as strong as the screws themselves!
		
Click to expand...


Wile E
First to DX10!



			Model: Powercolor HD 2900XT
http://img.techpowerup.org/070812/WileE2900.jpg
Comments: DFI FTW!

STATUS: PC EXPLODED  Issue resolved....luckily i got the system above back (points up). (Only member who has a R600…)
		
Click to expand...


Mitsirfishi
2nd Crossfire King



			MODELS:Asus x1950pro
      :HIS  x1950
OCS   :648mhz/823mhz
      :655/775mhz
Mods  :s1 accelero with 2x120mm fans to asus @1.475v  and Crossfire biatchs !!!!

From Tkpenalty: LOL!
		
Click to expand...


Standard Members:


Clubhouse Regulars (These are usual members who roam in this thread, they do not have to have a X1k~HD2k Product, bold states that they are clubhouse members)

-Tkpenalty
-P_O_S_PC
-Darknova
-WileE
-Craigleberry
-Mitsirfishi


oily_17 15%



			Model: X1950PRO HIS ICEQIII TURBO
http://img.techpowerup.org/070108/100_0408691.jpg
STATUS: Full working condition

Garb3



			Model: MSI X1950PRO 512MB (With large cooler)
STATUS: Fully working
		
Click to expand...



Click to expand...

-Pinchy 15%



			Model: X1950PRO Powercolor Extreme 512MB
STATUS: Full working condition 
OC: 630mhz/800x2



Pinchy said:



			im currently having some temp issues on my comp, so they r probably inaccurate 
My CPU thinks its at 11*C and 18*C, with one proggy, then 45* on the next ...so im gonna sort them out first
But my current readings are: 45*C idle and 60*C load (probably inaccurate)
		
Click to expand...



Click to expand...


boecke



			Model: PowerColor X1950 XT
STATUS: Full working condition
OC: N/A
		
Click to expand...


DaMulta



			Setup: 2x X1950XTXs in Crossfire
NOTE: NEED MORE INFO.
		
Click to expand...


[/quote]
JDPower



			Model: ATI Radeon X1950XTX Crossfire (OEM?)
STATUS: Full working Condition
OC: 702/1116x2
http://img.techpowerup.org/070118/Capture004.jpg
http://img.techpowerup.org/070118/Capture005.jpg
*From tkpenalty: OMG NICE!*
		
Click to expand...


mitsirfishi



Model: Hightech X1950PRO 
STATUS: Full working condition
OC:655/1550
Model: Sapphire HD3870 512MB
Mods done to it: Installed a HIS ICEQIII cooler once to test, very good temps (took of 30*C).
Soon to upgrade to a crossfire setup.
		
Click to expand...


Zubasa



			Model: Sapphire X1950PRO 256MB
STATUS: Full working condition, and when the hell are you going to get that Accelero X2? It will look mad IMO, ACCELEROX2 on Blue PCB. GET AN ACCELEROX2!!!GET AN ACCELEROX2!!!GET AN ACCELEROX2!!!GET AN ACCELEROX2!!!GET AN ACCELEROX2!!!
OC: N/A

Hey dude...
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/GunbladePlatinum/PROSAPPHIREcopy-2.jpg

Click to expand...


{JNT}Raptor



			Model: X1950XTX 512MB
Status: Working
OC: 735/1140
3D MARKS 05:12,000+
		
Click to expand...


xman2007



			Model: HIS X1950PRO ICEQIII 256MB
Unknown
OC: N/A
		
Click to expand...


AthlonX2



			Model: HD2600XT GDDR4 
Overclock: 800mhz/2200mhz
Status: working
		
Click to expand...


anticlutch



			Model: ASUS x1950 PRO 256mb
Status: It works!!!111oneoneone
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v180/l1lxdon/comp_3.jpg
OC: N/A
		
Click to expand...


DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E



			Model: HIS Radeon X1950XT IceQ3 Turbo
http://img.techpowerup.org/070120/100_0130_(2).jpg
STATUS: Up'n'running
*From Tkpenalty: Im envious of IceQIII coolers...*
OC: N/A
		
Click to expand...


Maju



god, this looks huge
MODEL: Saphire X1950XTX GDDR4 512MB
OC: 695mhz/1062mhz
Modifications Thermalright HR-03 heatpipe + fan
http://img.techpowerup.org/070119/x1950 xtx us.jpg

Click to expand...


Xnox202



			Model: Powercolor X1950PRO Extreme
OC: N/A
http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/605/12.jpg

Click to expand...



Batou1986



			Model: GECUBE X1950XT-X AGP-TEC EDITION (OMGZ COOL!~)
BEFORE:
http://img.techpowerup.org/070330/x1950xt.jpg
AFTER:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/MthcSephiroth/DSC00045.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/MthcSephiroth/DSC00046.jpg
STATUS: Full working condition Removed ugly POS TEC cooler and replaced with VF900CU Fatal1ty , temps dropped a huge amount.
		
Click to expand...


AlcaponeJoin date: 9/2/07



			Model: Sapphire x1950pro
OC: Unknown
Status: Unknown

Click to expand...


Kurash Join date: 9/2/07



			Model: X1950XTX 512MB
		
Click to expand...


Imprerialreign Join Date: 24/7/07



			Model: ATI X1950PRO 256MB PCI-E
Thats it...
NOTE: Processor Possibly bottlenecking GPU


Click to expand...



Panchoman- Aspiring to be an elitist 



			Sapphire X1950PRO PCI-E 256MB
Err that’s about it… need more info.
		
Click to expand...



Erocker



			Model: HIS ATI Radeon X1950PRO AGP 512MB ICEQIII TURBO
OC: Unknown
Status: Working
http://img.techpowerup.org/070209/cardtechpu990.jpg
*From teh_team killer: Tips for cable management erocker, concentrate on hiding the cables under the motherboard tray as well as behind the Drive bays (theres a gap behind the drive bays)*
		
Click to expand...


Kebabs



			Model: HD2900XT
OC: Don’t know yet
Status: Working

I NEED MORE INFO 

Click to expand...


Binomalkilla



			Mode: HIS HD2900XT 1GB
OC: N/A
Satus: Working
Image under is his old HIS X1950PRO ICEQIII
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/8695/hisx1950proen3.jpg
Question: Cannot overclock?
Answer: At the moment no tools except ATI Overdrive support proper overclocking. Thus the only availiable method is to overclock via the bios. Once the core hits 621mhz, it will need more voltage than it already has. Thus visit ketxxx's bios thread as i dont have the bioses yet.
		
Click to expand...


Craigo



			Model: Two Xpertvision X1950PROs in Crossfire
		
Click to expand...


Duffman



			03/1/08
GPUS: 2 HD2900XTs in Crossfire 
Mods: 2x VF1000 Installed.
		
Click to expand...


Shadowfold



			02/1/08
Model: HIS HD3850 ICEQIII TURBO
http://img.techpowerup.org/071231/Picture 008.jpg
http://img.techpowerup.org/071231/Picture.jpg

Click to expand...


KainXS



			23/2/08
Model: Radeon HD3870 512MB
http://img.techpowerup.org/080222/P1010425.jpg
Modification: (In image above), heatsinks on MOSFETs and Chokes.
		
Click to expand...


======================================================================================================
Disclaimer: I am not responsible for anything that goes wrong when you buy your GPU, all this information is based off hypothesized analysis if there is anything incorrect, add my MSN: azn_luster_X@hotmail.com and then talk to me about it

Thanks.

Martin Huang *


----------



## WarEagleAU (Jan 7, 2007)

I dont own one, but those are some sweet looking cards. Why are some impossible to find? What is so special about them? HIS does have a nice cooler, but if they sold it separately (which I wish they would do and branch out like Zalman and make somce AFM coolers, they would be bad ass, but then they would suffer on their graphics card sales) the two with the Zalman coolers (Gecube, Gigabyte and Asus) are bad ass. they should go well.


----------



## Taz100420 (Jan 7, 2007)

hey tk, i know this is off topic abit but i see ur getting a E6300 and i was looking at getting one in the near future and was wondering if its worth the $200usd or wait for the price to drop and is the proc any good?


----------



## Lazzer408 (Jan 7, 2007)

I own 2 for crossfire and they won't give me even 1fps more when running crossfire. A single one was giving me 9500 in 3dmark 05. Not bad for a $199 card. Not bad at all. Too bad both of them arn't working together.


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 7, 2007)

Got one from Sapphire and I still don't know what the "thermal issue" is. LOL
OMFG Lazzer408 how you post 80 times a day is a mystery....

Finialy we get a X1950 FanClub since there are already a thread for X1900 and X1800.

We should get a sticky thread in the Video Card section like the others.


----------



## Pinchy (Jan 7, 2007)

I get 10k in 3dmark05, oc'd the cpu and got 11k, then oc'd the card (max with ati overdrive) and got 11.5k

Not too bad 

Anyone know of any proggy to OC them tho?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 7, 2007)

Lazzer408 said:


> I own 2 for crossfire and they won't give me even 1fps more when running crossfire. A single one was giving me 9500 in 3dmark 05. Not bad for a $199 card. Not bad at all. Too bad both of them arn't working together.



thats because one of them is faulty.

IMO, I'd want the Gecube TEC cooler one


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 7, 2007)

Zubasa said:


> Got one from Sapphire and I still don't know what the "thermal issue" is. LOL
> OMFG Lazzer408 how you post 80 times a day is a mystery....
> 
> Finialy we get a X1950 Club since there are already a thread for X1900 and X1800.
> ...



You know why your one doesn't have thermal issues? Several batches of the X1950PRO from Sapphire weren't manufactured properly.



Taz100420 said:


> hey tk, i know this is off topic abit but i see ur getting a E6300 and i was looking at getting one in the near future and was wondering if its worth the $200usd or wait for the price to drop and is the proc any good?



e6300s are nice. Cept' that my one was dunked in water or some shit before it came to my door step :/

e6300 = e6400 after some light "OCing". They are virtually the same thing anyway, anyone who gets a e6400 is honestly stupid. For Conroes, only get either the e6300 or the e6600.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 7, 2007)

look at my cheap photoshop


----------



## Canuto (Jan 7, 2007)

From all of those cards what's the best?
I vote for the Saphire ultimate.


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 7, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> You know why your one doesn't have thermal issues? Several batches of the X1950PRO from Sapphire weren't manufactured properly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



One thing I find truly weird is the fan only run at 45% at 70+ degrees 
And 0~69 degrees the fan is set to 41% in the bios.


----------



## Lazzer408 (Jan 7, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> thats because one of them is faulty.
> 
> IMO, I'd want the Gecube TEC cooler one



Both of them have been replaced.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 7, 2007)

Lazzer408 said:


> Both of them have been replaced.



:/ So yeh noone except you has that problem unfortuneately >_> (STOP POSTING SO MUCH)


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 7, 2007)

Zubasa said:


> One thing I find truly weird is the fan only run at 45% at 70+ degrees
> And 0~69 degrees the fan is set to 41% in the bios.



That is called a thermal issue, I expect that RABIT should have a function to turn the fan up to 100% for the whole time, especially for me (I don't mind a bit of noise).

Sapphire's cooler has several bad batches but overall I seriously don't like the sapphire cooler although its very nice looking. The design of it is a little poor due to the fact that the majority of the cooler is made of Aluminium, added to that, the card doesn't even have heatpipes. That does not necessarily mean it sucks. Sapphire will need to send people a BIOS with a better fan configuration. 

That is why I recommend people get their X1950 PROs from either powercolor or HIS, taking note that the X1950 PRO Powercolor must be the Extreme Model.

Any moderator why walks past please add X1950GT to the title.


----------



## Lazzer408 (Jan 7, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> :/ So yeh noone except you has that problem unfortuneately >_> (STOP POSTING SO MUCH)



I'm not speaking badly of the x1950 pro at all. I love it. It's crazy fast for the price. I just wanted to give the heads up incase ATI had a defective batch. There looking into it. 4 cards, 4 mobos, 3 sets of ram, 2 powersupplies ?? Trust me it's a card issue. ATI support was even stumpped. There rebuilding my system at there shop to recreate the problem. It hasn't been the first time a company had a bad run of something. overheating saphires? xbox360 problems? The list goes on. I just wanted to put the heads up incase anyone was going to run right out and buy a crossfire setup with 2 x1950 pros they may want to just sit tight a few days untill I hear back from ATI this week. And be nice. I'm just here trying to help.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 7, 2007)

Lazzer408 said:


> I'm not speaking badly of the x1950 pro at all. I love it. It's crazy fast for the price. I just wanted to give the heads up incase ATI had a defective batch. There looking into it. 4 cards, 4 mobos, 3 sets of ram, 2 powersupplies ?? Trust me it's a card issue. ATI support was even stumpped. There rebuilding my system at there shop to recreate the problem. It hasn't been the first time a company had a bad run of something. overheating saphires? xbox360 problems? The list goes on. I just wanted to put the heads up incase anyone was going to run right out and buy a crossfire setup with 2 x1950 pros they may want to just sit tight a few days untill I hear back from ATI this week. And be nice. I'm just here trying to help.



Yeh but you already had 80 posts today =_=... have a rest man..


----------



## Lazzer408 (Jan 7, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Yeh but you already had 80 posts today =_=... have a rest man..



It's just the weekend. I'm new so it'll average out in time. I have 2 other forums I'm dealing with as well and no I didn't sell the Miata I'm still working on the... oh wait wrong forum.  
I'm done for today. This is a great forum. Lots of people to help. Friendly opinions with little flaming. Very nice for a change.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 7, 2007)

Lazzer408 said:


> It's just the weekend. I'm new so it'll average out in time. I have 2 other forums I'm dealing with as well and no I didn't sell the Miata I'm still working on the... oh wait wrong forum.
> I'm done for today. This is a great forum. Lots of people to help. Friendly opinions with little flaming. Very nice for a change.



Join the X1950 PRO Club.


----------



## Lazzer408 (Jan 7, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Join the X1950 PRO Club.



Oh THIS club.  Sorry it is late. Let me get my shit together here. System specs, pics, etc. I'll join fo-sho.


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 7, 2007)

I guess you should set up a member list.


----------



## Pinchy (Jan 7, 2007)

Lets compare brands...

What are everyones temps like?


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 7, 2007)

How about post your own temps from your Accelero X2 first?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 7, 2007)

Zubasa said:


> How about post your own temps from your Accelero X2 first?



Tomorrow, my rig is right now... "Brainless". I'm using my P4S8eholder.


----------



## Pinchy (Jan 7, 2007)

Zubasa said:


> How about post your own temps from your Accelero X2 first?



im currently having some temp issues on my comp, so they r probably inaccurate 

My CPU thinks its at 11*C and 18*C, with one proggy, then 45* on the next ...so im gonna sort them out first

But my current readings are: 45*C idle and 60*C load (probably inaccurate)



tkpenalty said:


> e6300 = e6400 after some light "OCing". They are virtually the same thing anyway, anyone who gets a e6400 is honestly stupid. For Conroes, only get either the e6300 or the e6600.




Not necessarily. The E6400 has a higher multiplier. So, at the same FSB, the E6400 will have a faster clock speed.

For example, lets say the FSB is 400

E6300 - 400 * 7 = 2.8Ghz
E6400 - 400 * 8 = 3.2Ghz



BTW thanks for adding me TK


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 7, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> im currently having some temp issues on my comp, so they r probably inaccurate
> 
> My CPU thinks its at 11*C and 18*C, with one proggy, then 45* on the next ...so im gonna sort them out first
> 
> ...



Nope, they aren't Accelro is a great cooler.

EDIT: Oh also anyone who wants to can post their clock speeds of their X1950 PRO or X1950GT and Temps-even if you arent a member.
Higher multiplier = less clock speed


----------



## Pinchy (Jan 7, 2007)

X1950 OC'd to 630/800 (1.6Ghz) using ati overdrive...clocked up perfectly without problems, got me 300-400 extra points in 3dmark05 



tkpenalty said:


> Higher multiplier = less clock speed



Huh? wheres that from?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 7, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> X1950 OC'd to 630/800 (1.6Ghz) using ati overdrive...clocked up perfectly without problems, got me 300-400 extra points in 3dmark05
> 
> 
> 
> Huh? wheres that from?



Added. Do you need a sigpic?


----------



## Pinchy (Jan 7, 2007)

If you have time, ill happily accept a sig pic 

BTW, u added my OC to Lazzers


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 7, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> If you have time, ill happily accept a sig pic
> 
> BTW, u added my OC to Lazzers



Sorry... Im pissed.... my ipod... WONT FUCKING CHARGE!!! WHEN I PLUG IT IN IT SHOWS THE FULL POWER SIGN!!! THEN WHEN I UNPLUG IT IT SHOWS THE "OUT OF POWER SIGNAL!!!111" WTF??? THE PC WON'T EVEN RECOGNISE IT OMG OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG!!!!!!!!!


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 7, 2007)

SOMEONE HELP!!! T_T     
About time apple replied back >_>.

So yeh... who actually has HIS's X1950PRO?


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 7, 2007)

Right now my Sapphire with the cheap stock cooler.
Idle temp: 43~45C
Load temp: 64~67C


----------



## oily_17 (Jan 7, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> So yeh... who actually has HIS's X1950PRO?



I recently got my new HIS x1950pro-havent oc'ed it yet,its my first card so unsure how to get best out of it yet!!


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 7, 2007)

oily_17 said:


> I recently got my new HIS x1950pro-havent oc'ed it yet,its my first card so unsure how to get best out of it yet!!


Right now the best bet is to use ATi Overdrive.


----------



## oily_17 (Jan 7, 2007)

Zubasa said:


> Right now the best bet is to use ATi Overdrive.



Will try it when I get computer sorted,one of my ram sticks died,so need some more ram now


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 7, 2007)

oily_17 said:


> Will try it when I get computer sorted,one of my ram sticks died,so need some more ram now



Post some pics of it and with a cathode tube if you have one .


----------



## oily_17 (Jan 8, 2007)

Heres some pics...sorry about the quality but computer in bits at the moment and I am shit at taking photos!!


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 8, 2007)

You're in !

Btw, my card runs the same temps as pinchy's lol... (Holy shit... HIS's cooler is sexy)


----------



## oily_17 (Jan 8, 2007)

My temps run
36C   Idle
49C   Load
 (Havent pushed it yet)
Thats at stock 622/743 clocks.

Need new ram and some cable tidying now, its a mess at the moment.


----------



## technicks (Jan 8, 2007)

I got the Sapphire one with Zalman VF900 and ramsinks.

Idle temp 29
Load temp 45
620/730


----------



## Pinchy (Jan 8, 2007)

*phew*..my temps are normal for a change 

Hmm...Accelero not all its cut out to be?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 9, 2007)

621/786. Got a good batch of GDDR3 here . 
Idle: 29*~31*
Load: 45*~51*

Btw, normal sapphires load up to 70*C.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 9, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> *phew*..my temps are normal for a change
> 
> Hmm...Accelero not all its cut out to be?



Look at where he lives... Zalmans with heatpipes are very ambient reliant, but they ABSOLUTELY SUCK AT COOLING THE MEMORY. The Zalman's memory is just heatsink cooled, while the AcceleroX2 cools everything with heatpipes.

Just PM me if you want to join. PM if you want a sig pic as well . It would be easier if you post a 3/4 view of the card itself and let me photoshop it up to scratch.


----------



## Pinchy (Jan 9, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> 621/786. Got a good batch of GDDR3 here .
> Idle: 29*~31*
> Load: 45*~51*
> 
> Btw, normal sapphires load up to 70*C.



They arent the same temps as mine 

I get 42*C idle, and 61*C full load...@ 600/700 (stock speeds)

Whats your GPU ambient? (as in, temps around the card)


----------



## Lazzer408 (Jan 9, 2007)

Has anyone used RaBiT to flash new fan settings to the x1950pro yet? I didn't own the card for 5 minutes before I knew ATI set those wrong. There shooting for silence I guess and they did a good job because my fans never spin faster then idle.


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 9, 2007)

Lazzer408 said:


> Has anyone used RaBiT to flash new fan settings to the x1950pro yet? I didn't own the card for 5 minutes before I knew ATI set those wrong. There shooting for silence I guess and they did a good job because my fans never spin faster then idle.



Yes because the bios says 41% from 0~69 and 45% 70C
It just never get hot enough for the fan to speed up.
The only time I see the fan at 100% is at start up.


----------



## Lazzer408 (Jan 9, 2007)

I know what the values are. Too low. I usually use ATITrayTools or some other 3rd party app to adjust them. I was wondering how well RaBit works or if it's stable enough for flashing cards. 100% was at  95c? That's crazy hot.


----------



## Pinchy (Jan 10, 2007)

I dnno if its just me or not, but the Accelero doesnt realy make a difference whether its on 44% or 100%. Itll make like a 2 or 3*C diff, if that. I mean, either way, its whisper quiet, but still 

BTW - to the guys with the powercolor extreme cards. Did yours come clocked at standard clocks, or at 500/600? Mine came at 500/600, yet i heard it was just a typo on the site, and that they were meant to come with starndard X1950 PRO clocks...


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 10, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> I dnno if its just me or not, but the Accelero doesnt realy make a difference whether its on 44% or 100%. Itll make like a 2 or 3*C diff, if that. I mean, either way, its whisper quiet, but still
> 
> BTW - to the guys with the powercolor extreme cards. Did yours come clocked at standard clocks, or at 500/600? Mine came at 500/600, yet i heard it was just a typo on the site, and that they were meant to come with starndard X1950 PRO clocks...



Yes. They are easier to OC though!

Like you gained a 200mhz OC.

However I must admit... my case cooling is appaling, I OC 60Mhz less due to the heat being trapped >_>. I need a better case like NOW! 

AcceleroX2 is like 999999 times better in an inverted case.


----------



## Pinchy (Jan 10, 2007)

yeah, we've got a good OC so far, and it should be better when it has no limits 

I think my case is crap. Well, not so much the case, but the fans. Although you cant hear them, i dont see much point in them, cus they dont blow any air! My old 80mm LED fans @ normal speeds blew a LOT more air than these 120mm ones at full load (although they were uber loud and annoying)...But it kept my idled Prescott @ 28*C and my X800XT PE @ 29*C and my HDD @ 26*C (with a room temp of around 25*C)

& in this case, my CPU is @ 43*C (idle @ stock speeds, where a core 2 duo is meant to be cooler than a prescott), my GPU is @ 43*C idle, and hard drive @ 41*C


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 10, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> yeah, we've got a good OC so far, and it should be better when it has no limits
> 
> I think my case is crap. Well, not so much the case, but the fans. Although you cant hear them, i dont see much point in them, cus they dont blow any air! My old 80mm LED fans @ normal speeds blew a LOT more air than these 120mm ones at full load (although they were uber loud and annoying)...But it kept my idled Prescott @ 28*C and my X800XT PE @ 29*C and my HDD @ 26*C (with a room temp of around 25*C)
> 
> & in this case, my CPU is @ 43*C (idle @ stock speeds, where a core 2 duo is meant to be cooler than a prescott), my GPU is @ 43*C idle, and hard drive @ 41*C



If you haven't realised yet the 80mm fans at MSY don't move any air. My generic fan by GTC moves around 31cfm  . Its sorta wooshy and the connector broke though  .
So this is what "silent" is. After getting the recommended parts for silence. I find that the system isnt quiet.

I reckon the accelero X2 X1950 could perform better than the Standard X1950 PRO from sapphire without a fan .

So we need more members! PM me if you want a sigpic.


----------



## mitsirfishi (Jan 10, 2007)

here is my rig i also have a His x1950pro



overclocked to 655/1550


----------



## mitsirfishi (Jan 10, 2007)

this is what ive scored so far i think if i could get cpu a couple hundred mhz faster and  clock my card more then i would be alright


----------



## Pinchy (Jan 10, 2007)

hey guys,

anyone got a rig almost identical to mine but with a 256mb X1950 PRO?

i wanna see the diff b/w 256 and 512mb


----------



## karolpl2004 (Jan 10, 2007)

showoffs..


----------



## DOM (Jan 10, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> hey guys,
> 
> anyone got a rig almost identical to mine but with a 256mb X1950 PRO?
> 
> i wanna see the diff b/w 256 and 512mb



i dont think its much the 512mb just uses less ram from the comp so you just get 1-5 FPS in games


----------



## Pinchy (Jan 10, 2007)

yeah, but 512mb also gives a boost when running @ higher resolutions for all the 'eye candy' 

So it would really only make a diff when higher resolutions are used with max settings.

The main reason i got the 512, was cus wen im going to sell it, ill get a lot more on eBay (dont ask me, but people on eBay seem to LOVE video RAM...i saw 512mb 6200's going for more than 256mb 6600's )


----------



## mitsirfishi (Jan 10, 2007)

512 only make a couple of fps difference at the most as no game takes up the whole of 256mb vram in games yet but i think my pc is the clostest to yours so far  that is if you havnt clocked your conroe  ;P

today ive had the chance to try out my x1950pro in a conroe setup of my friends Meny thanks rankle(nick) 

e6600 @3.15
1gb of kingston ram
asus p5w Dh
with my x1950pro at stock it wouldnt clock for some reason but here are the screen shots
and 1 taking on his overclocked x1900gt vs my stock x1950pro 635/1480


----------



## Pinchy (Jan 10, 2007)

ive only got an LCD, so max for me is 1280x1024 ...it wont make that much of a diff @ such a low resolution.



> We took a look at the 512MB model and that definitely has an advantage over the 256MB models



From: http://www.guru3d.com/article/content/386/12/

see they ran @ mad ass resolutions, hence, the difference can be seen


----------



## mitsirfishi (Jan 10, 2007)

lol you find someone who can afford a good monitor  to support a high res like that  yer i see a little bit of an advantage but all ati cards win at higher res with hdr ect ect


----------



## Pinchy (Jan 10, 2007)

yeah but as i said, a main reason i got the 512mb version was cus they go for SO much higher on eBay...and when it comes time to sell (in another 2-3 years), games prolly will require 512mb...well not require, but it'll help

anyways, thats what i think


----------



## olmer (Jan 10, 2007)

*GeCube x1950 pro*

Stock fan on the above is a nuisance – always on 100% - I can only use headphones.

Want to limit rpms somehow but have no idea of current temperature/fan speed (pretty sure it is @ 100% all time). 

ATItool 0.26/ATI Tray Tools/Everest do not support my card.

Have this  x1950pro-specific drivers from ati - X1950Pro_8-291-1-060822a-036024C – v6.12.

Have tried to get help on hardforum and anandtech – no luck there. 

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## prime95 (Jan 10, 2007)

Just recieved x1950xt, can i be king of the fan club?!


----------



## technicks (Jan 10, 2007)

Start your own club!:shadedshu


----------



## Pinchy (Jan 11, 2007)

olmer said:


> Stock fan on the above is a nuisance – always on 100% - I can only use headphones.
> 
> Want to limit rpms somehow but have no idea of current temperature/fan speed (pretty sure it is @ 100% all time).
> 
> ...




Have you tried CCC to see the temps?

Also, ahve you tried other drivers?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 11, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> Have you tried CCC to see the temps?
> 
> Also, ahve you tried other drivers?



Lol ATI Tool can do it too, just have to be careful NOT to accidentally OC though.

X1950XT is allowed but any dual core or XTX isnt.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 11, 2007)

Anyone know of a silent 80mm fan that can move heaps of air? My X1950 PRO is sorta getting the heat trapped. Might be time to buy a new case or change the side panel to a one that has a GPU out take vent (Generic TT Case can use the same panel from different models)


----------



## technicks (Jan 11, 2007)

Or buy a Zalman VF900 cooler. LOL


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 11, 2007)

technicks said:


> Or buy a Zalman VF900 cooler. LOL



That will make it worse T_T... Accelero X2 > Zalman VF900.


----------



## oily_17 (Jan 11, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> here is my rig i also have a His x1950pro
> 
> 
> 
> overclocked to 655/1550



Same gpu and psu...LOL!!
One question do any of your Led's flicker on Psu,mine do ...sooo annoying

PS: Your rig looks hell alot tidyer than mine


----------



## technicks (Jan 11, 2007)

"One question do any of your Led's flicker on Psu,mine do ...sooo annoying"

Which leds on the psu?


----------



## mitsirfishi (Jan 11, 2007)

mine flicker when its turned off but the fans still rotate and then eventually turn off after a 2 minute period


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 11, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> mine flicker when its turned off but the fans still rotate and then eventually turn off after a 2 minute period



Thats good, isnt it? It means it has a good bearing (HOLY SHIT!!!   2 Min Spin down!)


----------



## Pinchy (Jan 11, 2007)

I remember seeing a fan that kept goin @ 5 mins after shut down, to cool it down totally


----------



## technicks (Jan 11, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> mine flicker when its turned off but the fans still rotate and then eventually turn off after a 2 minute period



Do you have a PSU fan with a led in it?(the blue light)


----------



## oily_17 (Jan 11, 2007)

technicks said:


> Do you have a PSU fan with a led in it?(the blue light)



Yea blue Led,s but I think one going bad on mine ...
Ah well shit happens!!


----------



## technicks (Jan 11, 2007)

You got the Hiper 580R right? I have the same but the black one but i do not have led's in my fan.


----------



## oily_17 (Jan 11, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Thats good, isnt it? It means it has a good bearing (HOLY SHIT!!!   2 Min Spin down!)



I think PSU supplies power to fan after shut down to aid cooling


----------



## oily_17 (Jan 11, 2007)

technicks said:


> You got the Hiper 580R right? I have the same but the black one but i do not have led's in my fan.


Actually inside the case 

Wanna swap...only jokingLOL


----------



## technicks (Jan 11, 2007)

oily_17 said:


> Actually inside the case
> 
> Wanna swap...only jokingLOL



So no in the psu? I was worried that my psu fan was broken.

They should have made blue led fan in the psu that would have looked so cool.


----------



## oily_17 (Jan 11, 2007)

Inside PSU case!!
Sorry didnt make clear


----------



## Pinchy (Jan 11, 2007)

oily_17 said:


> I think PSU supplies power to fan after shut down to aid cooling



Yeah...or they are faulty  lmao


----------



## JdPower (Jan 11, 2007)

Model: Ati Radeon X1950XTX 






Sorry about the HUGE photo... lol


----------



## technicks (Jan 11, 2007)

I just checked the specs of mu PSU. I DO have led's in my fan but the f%ckers don't work.


----------



## technicks (Jan 11, 2007)

JdPower said:


> Model: Ati Radeon X1950XTX
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Aaah. Very nice.


----------



## oily_17 (Jan 11, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> Yeah...or they are faulty  lmao



As long as they spin thats good for me


----------



## oily_17 (Jan 11, 2007)

technicks said:


> I just checked the specs of mu PSU. I DO have led's in my fan but the f%ckers don't work.



Told you_ shit happens_.. could be common problem?


----------



## JdPower (Jan 11, 2007)

Ah one more... forgot!


----------



## technicks (Jan 12, 2007)

JdPower said:


> Ah one more... forgot!



Does your PSU fan light up? Picture please.


----------



## Pinchy (Jan 12, 2007)

add them as attachments so they dont come out full size


----------



## JdPower (Jan 12, 2007)

technicks said:


> Does your PSU fan light up? Picture please.



No it DOES NOT light up... not suppose to!


----------



## oily_17 (Jan 12, 2007)

JdPower said:


> Model: Ati Radeon X1950XTX
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Same cooler as HIS??

EDIT: By the way* nice*


----------



## oily_17 (Jan 12, 2007)

JdPower said:


> No it DOES NOT light up... not suppose to!




Must be only blue ones


----------



## Pinchy (Jan 12, 2007)

oily_17 said:


> Same cooler as HIS??
> 
> EDIT: By the way* nice*



na its a little different...well the design is at least

what are temps like?

And nice cable management


----------



## oily_17 (Jan 12, 2007)

oily_17 said:


> My temps run
> 36C   Idle
> 49C   Load
> (Havent pushed it yet)
> Thats at stock 622/743 clocks.



Thats my temps


----------



## Pinchy (Jan 12, 2007)

Not too bad 

Wonder what the X1950XTX's temps are like with that heatsink


----------



## technicks (Jan 12, 2007)

oily_17 said:


> Must be only blue ones




Cooling System:
        Active Thermal Controlled Circuitry.
        120 mm Long Life Chromed Blade Fan with LED. 
        80 Long Life Chromed Blade Fan with LED 
        Power-Off Component Protection design.
  Note: 80mm rear fan will stay on for a few minutes after shutdown to vacate additional hot air.

The spec's say that the black ones should have UV coloured led's.

Never mind.

The Blue Label has 4 blue LED's on both fans, the Black label has no LED's on either fan. Notice that both 120mm and 80mm have a very low dBA rating but the 120mm moves twice as much air into the PSU than the 80mm can exhaust. Again, I'll test to see how effective that is.


----------



## JdPower (Jan 12, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> Not too bad
> 
> Wonder what the X1950XTX's temps are like with that heatsink



My temps are:
50% Fan
Idle: 38
Enviroment: 32
Load: 49
Enviroment: 38 

100% Fan
Idle: 34
Enviroment: 32
Load: 45
Enviroment: 38

CASE: Antec Nine Hundred


----------



## oily_17 (Jan 12, 2007)

technicks said:


> Cooling System:
> Active Thermal Controlled Circuitry.
> 120 mm Long Life Chromed Blade Fan with LED.
> 80 Long Life Chromed Blade Fan with LED
> ...



RMA the fu*&er


----------



## oily_17 (Jan 12, 2007)

JdPower said:


> My temps are:
> 50% Fan
> Idle: 38
> Enviroment: 32
> ...



Very near the same as HIS..
Havent tried them at 100%


----------



## Pinchy (Jan 12, 2007)

JdPower said:


> My temps are:
> 50% Fan
> Idle: 38
> Enviroment: 32
> ...



whoa...thats pretty good for a stock cooler (then again...u can tell it looks like a good stock cooler )


----------



## technicks (Jan 12, 2007)

My temps oc'ed at 620/750 are:  

32 idle
45 load

Who said X1950pro's have a heat problem? LOL


----------



## JdPower (Jan 12, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> whoa...thats pretty good for a stock cooler (then again...u can tell it looks like a good stock cooler )



Yes its very good. And when I play CSS (counter-strike:source) temps don't got past 45 and thats playing for about 2hrs straight  

Thing sounds like a vacuum tho when at 100%. lol


----------



## JdPower (Jan 12, 2007)

technicks said:


> My temps oc'ed at 620/750 are:
> 
> 32 idle
> 45 load
> ...



I still don't know how to OC my video card. First time I tried my system crashed and went to default  Any ideas how to?


----------



## oily_17 (Jan 12, 2007)

JdPower said:


> I still don't know how to OC my video card. First time I tried my system crashed and went to default  Any ideas how to?


Yea tell me too,tried CCC but only OC memory..


----------



## technicks (Jan 12, 2007)

I use CCC. It works for me but i don't go so high on the mem. And the core can't be clocked further then 627.

Some here say that Rivatuner 2.0 works good. But i find it a bit difficult to handle the settings.


----------



## oily_17 (Jan 12, 2007)

technicks said:


> I use CCC. It works for me but i don't go so high on the mem. And the core can't be clocked further then 627.
> 
> Some here say that Rivatuner 2.0 works good. But i find it a bit difficult to handle the settings.


My memory went to 780 I think ! but core never moved
Think will wait for ATI Tool


----------



## technicks (Jan 12, 2007)

oily_17 said:


> My memory went to 780 I think ! but core never moved
> Think will wait for ATI Tool



I am waiting a long time now.  I hope W1zzard is working on it.


----------



## JdPower (Jan 12, 2007)

I am using ATI Tray tools cuz I like how it leaves the temps veiwable. Tried using that to OC but it didn't work. CCC... where could I find that? TPU Download section?


----------



## technicks (Jan 12, 2007)

Catalyst Control Center.

That is the program that comes with your display driver.

http://img.techpowerup.org/070111/Capture021.jpg


----------



## JdPower (Jan 12, 2007)

technicks said:


> Catalyst Control Center.
> 
> That is the program that comes with your display driver.



Oh dur... lol abbreviations kill me.  Anyways, I have used that (the auto OC'er) and it doesn't save the clocks? Are you guys manually doing it? Its says in the "requested" field on ATI Overdrive 648/999mhz but its at 506/594 ... 

Edit: NVM... didnt have the preserve setting checked


----------



## oily_17 (Jan 12, 2007)

technicks said:


> Catalyst Control Center.
> 
> That is the program that comes with your display driver.
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/070111/Capture021.jpg



When I load CCC my _egg timer_ flashs every second or so.
I uninstalled it didnt seem right


----------



## technicks (Jan 12, 2007)

Don't use ATT to overclock. It can fuck up your card according to people on the web.
Don't use the automatic overclock function anyway. Always do it yourself with small steps of 5mhz.


----------



## JdPower (Jan 12, 2007)

technicks said:


> Don't use ATT to overclock. It can fuck up your card according to people on the web.
> Don't use the automatic overclock function anyway. Always do it yourself with small steps of 5mhz.



I just use the fan control!  Things works like a charm I love it...


----------



## technicks (Jan 12, 2007)

oily_17 said:


> When I load CCC my _egg timer_ flashs every second or so.
> I uninstalled it didnt seem right



I use it with no problems at all.


----------



## technicks (Jan 12, 2007)

JdPower said:


> I just use the fan control!  Things works like a charm I love it...



I can't use the fan control with ATT or AT. I use Speedfan because the Zalman has to be connected to a fanspeed controler or to the motherboard directly.


----------



## oily_17 (Jan 12, 2007)

technicks said:


> I use it with no problems at all.



Just me 

First card so stock is good for the moment


----------



## olmer (Jan 12, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> Have you tried CCC to see the temps?
> 
> Also, ahve you tried other drivers?



RE: 





			
				olmer said:
			
		

> Stock fan on the above is a nuisance – always on 100% - I can only use headphones.
> 
> Want to limit rpms somehow but have no idea of current temperature/fan speed (pretty sure it is @ 100% all time).
> 
> ...



No CCC cannot see tempr/fan either; tried 6.12, x1950pro-specific and those from the box.

I thought it was fixable like earlier x1600-series from GeCube.

Emailed ATI and GeCube.

Disappointed. If not resolved - shall try to return this card - on the box clearly says the fan is temperature-controlled so there should be the way to do it (in theory) unless GeCube lies.

Does anyone else owns this card?


----------



## technicks (Jan 12, 2007)

JdPower said:


> Oh dur... lol abbreviations kill me.  Anyways, I have used that (the auto OC'er) and it doesn't save the clocks? Are you guys manually doing it? Its says in the "requested" field on ATI Overdrive 648/999mhz but its at 506/594 ...
> 
> Edit: NVM... didnt have the preserve setting checked



How high did you say on the mem. 999?


----------



## DOM (Jan 12, 2007)

technicks said:


> How high did you say on the mem. 999? Goes up to 797.



 he has XTX


----------



## Pinchy (Jan 12, 2007)

Is there any GeCube software?

Use ATi tool for temps and fan control for any card....just dnt OC if you have the X1950 PRO

@ JDPower, use ATi tool to OC...its pretty easy (altho dnt use "find max mem/core")...you card is supported


----------



## DOM (Jan 12, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> Is there any GeCube software?
> 
> Use ATi tool for temps and fan control for any card....just dnt OC if you have the X1950 PRO
> 
> @ JDPower, use ATi tool to OC...its pretty easy (altho dnt use "find max mem/core")...you card is supported



why not use FIND Max Core/Mem?

I used it   is it bad ?


----------



## JdPower (Jan 12, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> Is there any GeCube software?
> 
> Use ATi tool for temps and fan control for any card....just dnt OC if you have the X1950 PRO
> 
> @ JDPower, use ATi tool to OC...its pretty easy (altho dnt use "find max mem/core")...you card is supported



Imma try using CCC first... You know if you could use ATi Tray Toold and ATi Tools? I like the way you can control your fan with the ATT.


----------



## Pinchy (Jan 12, 2007)

You can control your fan with ATi tool as well 

And Dom, na it isnt bad, i just find it crashed a lot on me with my X800 card. Dunno if it still does it with the newer cards...


----------



## JdPower (Jan 12, 2007)

Hmmm when I use CCC and go to ATI overdrive the bars only move the requested clock and not the current clock? Will this change when hit apply?


----------



## DOM (Jan 12, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> You can control your fan with ATi tool as well
> 
> And Dom, na it isnt bad, i just find it crashed a lot on me with my X800 card. Dunno if it still does it with the newer cards...



with the 1950XT I dont even get a beep like I did with my 800XL it just freezes  

and also you know how the mem would move when you would more the core it doesnt


----------



## DOM (Jan 12, 2007)

JdPower said:


> Hmmm when I use CCC and go to ATI overdrive the bars only move the requested clock and not the current clock? Will this change when hit apply?



its 2D and 3D clocks


----------



## JdPower (Jan 12, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> its 2D and 3D clocks



? Isn't that what I want? Confused...


----------



## olmer (Jan 12, 2007)

JdPower said:


> Imma try using CCC first... You know if you could use ATi Tray Toold and ATi Tools? I like the way you can control your fan with the ATT.



None of those programs can even see my current tempr/fan speed - only gpu/mem speeds. ATITool also does not display a catalyst version - strange. This is the email i sent to gecube to make all clear:



			
				MY EMAIL said:
			
		

> FOR AMD/ATI use Ticket #
> 
> GeCube representative:
> 
> ...


----------



## DOM (Jan 12, 2007)

JdPower said:


> ? Isn't that what I want? Confused...



yea it uses less power when in 2D mode 

thats how I have mine with ATITool at 2D then for it to go to 3D when I need it cuz it needs more volts on the core for the 3D clocks


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 12, 2007)

In 2D mode usually, the card downclocks itself. In 3D it throttles the speed accordingly. Its efficient to keep the card from wasting electricity, etc. Also allows it to cool. When you play a 3D game, it automatically upclocks itself.


----------



## JdPower (Jan 12, 2007)

So new clocks... 

695Mhz
1098Mhz


----------



## mitsirfishi (Jan 12, 2007)

that is on a xt though... nice to see hammering 1.6v though a fx55  cant you get it to 3ghz  

Show some scores jd and dom see how they compare to my pro being 12 shaders and 4 pipes down


----------



## DOM (Jan 12, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> that is on a xt though... nice to see hammering 1.6v though a fx55  cant you get it to 3ghz
> 
> Show some scores dom



  what scores


----------



## mitsirfishi (Jan 12, 2007)

i just edited my post but get some 3dmark scores in  sorry for the confusion


----------



## DOM (Jan 12, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> i just edited my post but get some 3dmark scores in  sorry for the confusion



well heres 05 and 06


----------



## mitsirfishi (Jan 12, 2007)

very nice scores  and good overclocks on cpu and  i dont think my 4ghz 920 pentuim D is up to the job maybe time to upgrade cpu and board and ram as i seem to hit over 1k more on a core 2


----------



## JdPower (Jan 12, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> that is on a xt though... nice to see hammering 1.6v though a fx55  cant you get it to 3ghz
> 
> Show some scores jd and dom see how they compare to my pro being 12 shaders and 4 pipes down



Here are some scores... kinda dissapointed to say the least. Need to mess with some stuff more.
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=23466

I have only messed with the volts and the multiplyer on the CPU.


----------



## DOM (Jan 12, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> very nice scores  and good overclocks on cpu and  i dont think my 4ghz 920 pentuim D is up to the job maybe time to upgrade cpu and board and ram as i seem to hit over 1k more on a core 2



cuz whats your best score on 06 and with what speeds on cpu and gpu

im going to see what I get with stock both on 06


----------



## mitsirfishi (Jan 12, 2007)

well best ive hit so far is 5.5k running at 655/1550 at 4ghz


----------



## DOM (Jan 12, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> well best ive hit so far is 5.5k running at 655/1550 at 4ghz



wells heres mine stock


----------



## JdPower (Jan 12, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> wells heres mine stock



Wow you can really OC that CPU holy shit...  LOL, mine is OC and you still got a better score then I did. ROFL!


----------



## mitsirfishi (Jan 12, 2007)

yer i know best thing to do is to drop the multiplier and get a crazy high fsb  say 10x300 and see how you go


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 13, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> yer i know best thing to do is to drop the multiplier and get a crazy high fsb  say 10x300 and see how you go



No.. go 500mhz. Some reason Inverted ATX doesn't work better with X1950PRO ACCELEROX2 ; I tested it


----------



## Nektopoli (Jan 14, 2007)

Own an X1950-CFE and what do you mean *"DUAL CORES ARE NOT ALLOWED"*.

NP


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 14, 2007)

Nektopoli said:


> Own an X1950-CFE and what do you mean *"DUAL CORES ARE NOT ALLOWED"*.
> 
> NP



^Um wtf? :shadedshu 

I think you're living in the past but there are going to be dual core X1950PROs if you haven't realised. If the GPU has two dies on *ONE* PCB, then it IS a dual core. I will consider allowing it but... not in the mood.


----------



## SpoonMuffin (Jan 14, 2007)

lol, all this 1950 mania, i got an x1900xt(flashed to xtx, gonna try toxic clocks soon!!!(working out a stab issue currently, stupid new drivers and vpu recovery and asus boards.....*grummbles* )


----------



## technicks (Jan 14, 2007)

So why are you posting in the X1950 Pro threat?


----------



## boecke (Jan 15, 2007)

Well, here are my bits.





Desktop





Inside

:shadedshu


----------



## straybeat (Jan 15, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> Anyone know of any proggy to OC them tho?



I'm using the latest version of ATI Tray Tools with the Pro AGP version. I overclocked it from 575/1380 to 655/1500 so far.

Edit: I thought I'd add that I'm using the Warcat 6.12 drivers. Gave me 800 more points in 3DM05 than the 6.12 ATI drivers. I'm also using my old Zalman VF-700 and heatsinks on the 256 meg Visiontek model (512 meg Sapphire should be here Wednesday).


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 15, 2007)

Thanks to the moderator for moving this thread 

I hit 3.5K with my X1950PRO... Frick, the 80mm fans aren't doing anything, I reckon its about time I buy some Arctic Ceramique.

This is a X1950 Clubhouse, not a X1950PRO Clubhouse.

Nice case but some cable management please? (Why do people love the stock AMD coolers so much?)


----------



## boecke (Jan 15, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Thanks to the moderator for moving this thread
> 
> I hit 3.5K with my X1950PRO... Frick, the 80mm fans aren't doing anything, I reckon its about time I buy some Arctic Ceramique.
> 
> ...



I hate the stock AMD coolers, and the cables are everywhere because I can't be bothered plugging them in


----------



## boecke (Jan 17, 2007)

Bump.

I'll take some nice pictures of the cards soon, and add me to the X1950 clubhouse!


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 17, 2007)

boecke said:


> Bump.
> 
> I'll take some nice pictures of the cards soon, and add me to the X1950 clubhouse!



k... done.

Anyone who has crossfire issues with their X1950PRO, please don't bitch about it here. Its your CPU. X1950PRO in crossfire = X1950XTX, or even more powerful, depending on your system. Whom who uses these in crossfire with a Pentium 4 is a total idiot (Unless you've got a limited budget but really, if you want to utilise it's potential PLEASE GET A BETTER PROCESSOR), because it slightly bottlenecks with the Pentium 4 in a single setup!


----------



## JdPower (Jan 17, 2007)

So this "club" strictly PRO or any X1950XT/PRO/XTX I submitted my pics and proof on page 3


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 18, 2007)

Any X1950PRO/GT/XT/XTX/Dual Core club

^Um... page 3?


----------



## JdPower (Jan 18, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Any X1950PRO/GT/XT/XTX/Dual Core club
> 
> ^Um... page 3?



Opps sorry page 4! LOL


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 18, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Any X1950PRO/GT/XT/XTX/Dual Core club
> 
> ^Um... page 3?



Do I ever get to join?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 18, 2007)

Zubasa said:


> Do I ever get to join?



Aren't you in?

EDIT: I'm half asleep >_>. OMG THAT BLUE ORB IS HUUUGE! (I thought my CNPS7700CU was big).

Man... the Tul X1950PROs are great OC'ers.


----------



## xman2007 (Jan 18, 2007)

wohooooo can i be in ? check my updated specs


----------



## {JNT}Raptor (Jan 18, 2007)

I own the Saphire X1950XTX 512mb...OC Is 735/1140 from 650/1000....fan speed anywhere from 65% to 75% with Temps never going over 60c

Little over 12k in 3dMark05.


----------



## DOM (Jan 18, 2007)

What bout me   am I in ?


----------



## prime95 (Jan 18, 2007)

Am I in?  Sapphire x1950XT -- pics when I order my Canon Rebel XT...


----------



## JdPower (Jan 18, 2007)

{JNT}Raptor said:


> I own the Saphire X1950XTX 512mb...OC Is 735/1140 from 650/1000....fan speed anywhere from 65% to 75% with Temps never going over 60c
> 
> Little over 12k in 3dMark05.



Whoa, I can't get passed 702/1116 on my X1950XTX. and thats a little increase in the volts at 100% fan and 100% load 62C 

Are you using ATiTool 0.26?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 19, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> What bout me   am I in ?



added


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 19, 2007)

About the Accelero X2 matter, I am lacking in cash right now. LOL


----------



## anticlutch (Jan 19, 2007)

I guess no one else has the ASUS x1950 Pro? I didn't see a need to switch out the stock cooling (it looks cool, and it helps keep the GPU cool), so I kept it 

Also a bit off topic but... anyone know when we should expect ATI tool to support the OC'ing of the x1950 Pro's ?


----------



## DOM (Jan 19, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> added



On the OC is it what i run it at or whats the highest ive benched it at ? cuz ive ran it at 749.25core/1044mem pic if you need it


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 19, 2007)

anticlutch said:


> I guess no one else has the ASUS x1950 Pro? I didn't see a need to switch out the stock cooling (it looks cool, and it helps keep the GPU cool), so I kept it
> 
> Also a bit off topic but... anyone know when we should expect ATI tool to support the OC'ing of the x1950 Pro's ?


I dunno about the X1950Pro Cooler....
But I can tell you that my friend's ASUS X1650XT has a cooler that cools the core but heats up the memory 
So is it a cooler or heater after all?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 19, 2007)

Hey to anyone who has a GPU that uses thermal gum (bubble gum'ish) and hasn't changed the gum yet read on:

Thermal gum is not such a great conductor of heat and posseses a high resistance. This will apply especially to the people using Sapphire branded X1950PRO Standard. The thermal gum is easier to apply and therefore cutting production time and cost of the GPU, when compared to thermal paste. The longterm usage of thermal gum is not dangerous but a major hassle when it comes to removal, you may have to resort to using some abrasive to get rid of the gunk from the die (like I had to for my 9550).

What I am saying is; REMOVE IT EARLY ON WHEN THE GPU IS NEW

Leaving it on for an extended period of time isn't a smart thing as the Thermal Gum fills in the "valleys" on the stock GPU, well this is good for thermal paste and also a plus for thermal gum. Over time it will become harder and harder to remove, not to mention after burn-ins the thermal paste literally becomes harder. It even sticks to the mirror surface of the core's die and would be dangerous to remove if you are clumsy (heard of breaking capacitors?).

Btw, thermal paste is a wipe-off job; just wipe it off with a cloth that has been immerse- no "blessed" with alcohol (rofl... I use it that much).

Process for those with new unused GPUs using thermal Gum:
1.Scrape off gum from base of heatsink until there are no huge luumps of it
2.Apply alcohol and remove anymore impurities on the base
3. If there is any thermal gum stuck on the die, use a lint-free cloth with 90% alcohol to remove it.
4. Apply thermal paste.

It doesn't matter what thermal paste you use because thermal gum is CRAP.

EDIT:

Okay guys with Sapphire Standard X1950PROs... your cards can potentially suffer from heat death as the cooler for some odd reason the cooler has so weird qwerks. Its using the reference design which powercolor is also using however, while the reference cooler uses copper with a heatsink fan, the sapphire uses an aluminium, aluminium being light but a so-so conductor of heat. The reference cooler keeps the card at a barely acceptable temperature range BUT the sapphire, as you can guess does worse. 70*C IS UNACCEPTABLE a powercolor extreme will last up to 3 times longer than the sapphire standard. Electronics in a PC fail two times faster every 10*C more. 

Sapphire X1950PRO owners should get an AcceleroX2, be wared of the thermal crap. Zubasa, BUY THE ACCELERO X2!!! 
(Wah diu.. AcceleroX2 m hai peng a? Zalman how guai ai, gno m hai giu lei mai Zalman, lei go sei hum ga leng!)

EDIT2#: Fine then lol.... at least replace the thermal paste. The ASUS cooler does better because its cooling a chip that doesn't even get that hot.


OMGWTFUSBBQ!!! ZUBASA GOT 478, 479 POSTS!!!


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 19, 2007)

Luckily both my X1600Pro and X1950Pro has some crappy thermal paste on them.  (Lucky I guess.....)


----------



## anticlutch (Jan 19, 2007)

What about the memory? I put some AS5 on the GPU but I left the stuff on the memory alone...

And am I in?


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 19, 2007)

anticlutch said:


> What about the memory? I put some AS5 on the GPU but I left the stuff on the memory alone...
> 
> And am I in?


The thermal pads on the memory comes off easily


----------



## boecke (Jan 19, 2007)

Hmmm, ASUS cards are so high priced.. I'm not sure why 
I can't help but brag about HIS and PowerColor.


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 19, 2007)

boecke said:


> Hmmm, ASUS cards are so high priced.. I'm not sure why
> I can't help but brag about HIS and PowerColor.



The fact that many people take advantage of the warranty and RMA the card after they fry it by OCing


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 19, 2007)

Um... Zubasa AcceleroX2 is not 2000HKD man... how is it expensive, its more like 200HKD and is better overall than a zalman (unless you get some copper ramsinks which add like another 50HKD to the purchase).


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 19, 2007)

boecke said:


> Hmmm, ASUS cards are so high priced.. I'm not sure why
> I can't help but brag about HIS and PowerColor.



They don't get hot on the outside but on the inside they are; what I'm saying is, half their coolers are barely keeping the cards under death-zone.

The Sapphire X1950PRO standard's cooler is probably the first time sapphire has done something extremely stupid.


----------



## anticlutch (Jan 19, 2007)

Mine idles at 43C and hovers around 63C under stress...


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 19, 2007)

anticlutch said:


> Mine idles at 43C and hovers around 63C under stress...



See Zubasa... thats how they ARE supposed to perform. The Powercolor standard is basically the worst a stock cooler should perform and the sapphire one seems to do even worse. If you don't listen your GPU is going to fail around three times quicker than everyone else's.

ASUS is more expensive because they are the "Ultra-famous top-dogs". Well they aren't but usually buyers are paying for some more bells and whistles as well as a royalty. They are well known so some buyers who are clueless but know a bit will think "the extra price means extra quality". IMHO Powercolor offers better products at a far cheaper price.

EDIT: Powercolor standard X1950PROs are the thing of the past. I think powercolor discontinued them because they are darn hard to find. As well as being the same price as the extreme sibling.

EDIT2#: Right now I don't find sapphire's X1950PRO Ultimate even worth buying... when you suddenly realise that you cant install your memory cooling waterblocks because the ramsinks are sealed down by something that isnt tape... but EPOXY!!!!






I don't know how this works... IMHO, sapphire reallly screwed up the X1950PRO range.


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 19, 2007)

anticlutch said:


> Mine idles at 43C and hovers around 63C under stress...


I guess the Sapphire Cooler isn't them lame after all  (Or is it that the Asus isn't that impressive?)
I have the same temps as you do....

BTW, I dunno about the first batch of Sapphire X1950Pros, but my cooler is make of copper at the area that covers the core. (The rest is aluminum)
And it uses thermal paste instead of the bubble gum.
May be Sapphire smarten up after the waves complains


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 19, 2007)

Zubasa said:


> I guess the Sapphire Cooler isn't them lame after all  (Or is it that the Asus isn't that impressive?)
> I have the same temps as you do....
> 
> BTW, I dunno about the first batch of Sapphire X1950Pros, but my cooler is make of copper at the area that covers the core. (The rest is aluminum)
> ...



That is the reason why Ultimate was introduced. The reference is complete copper >_>. Yeh... change the thermal gum. Any thermal paste does better than thermal GUM


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 19, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> That is the reason why Ultimate was introduced. The reference is complete copper >_>. Yeh... change the thermal gum. Any thermal paste does better than thermal GUM


I am going to get the Accelero X2 asa I get the cash anyways 

The HIS cooler looks like this.....
http://taiwan.hisdigital.com/newimages/products/X1950Pro_Card_500.jpg

I guess Sapphire got screwed up by AMD (AMD are noobs in designing coolers):
http://www.ixbt.com/short/images/ati-rv570le.jpg


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 19, 2007)

Zubasa said:


> I am going to get the Accelero X2 asa I get the cash anyways
> 
> The HIS cooler looks like this.....
> http://taiwan.hisdigital.com/newimages/products/X1950Pro_Card_500.jpg
> ...



They are different. ATI's original cooler is pure copper with a plastic bezel + fan. Sapphire wanted looks so they used aluminium. If you can buy a HIS ICEQIII Get that rather than a AcceleroX2.

HIS Discontinued that version of the X1950PRO (I think) other than that, the IceQIII Turbo costs the same as a normal X1950PRO Sapphire. Its still better than the sapphire, because it has a copper interior! It also blows the heat to a place where it can  be outputted.


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 19, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> They are different. ATI's original cooler is pure copper with a plastic bezel + fan. Sapphire wanted looks so they used aluminium. If you can buy a HIS ICEQIII Get that rather than a AcceleroX2.
> 
> HIS Discontinued that version of the X1950PRO (I think) other than that, the IceQIII Turbo costs the same as a normal X1950PRO Sapphire. Its still better than the sapphire, because it has a copper interior! It also blows the heat to a place where it can  be outputted.


OK?
http://www.oc.com.tw/article/0612/readgoodarticle.asp?id=5635#01
Look closely and you will see the Aluminum 

Connect3D:
http://www.beareyes.com.cn/2/lib/200701/16/20070116251.htm


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 19, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Um... Zubasa AcceleroX2 is not 2000HKD man... how is it expensive, its more like 200HKD and is better overall than a zalman (unless you get some copper ramsinks which add like another 50HKD to the purchase).


$280 HK is all I got in my wallet 
So Accelero X2 = No Bus Fee + No Launch + No Dinner


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 19, 2007)

Zubasa said:


> OK?
> http://www.oc.com.tw/article/0612/readgoodarticle.asp?id=5635#01
> Look closely and you will see the Aluminum
> 
> ...



Those "boxy fins" are copper >_> The second link loads slower than dial up... It is copper.
It would cost less than $200HKD, okay? Its "sorta" cheaper. Like $180HKD... How much is a bus trip?
Save up man...

Guys if you want to join, at least provide some images!









Connect 3D just restickered the nomal design.

WHAT THE FUCK?








Did these guys jack a truck or something? Looks like something like confiscated drug imports! O_O

Images for your membership please...

Post some 3D marks scores, OC, mods etc.


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 19, 2007)

I guess its just China....
Everything comes in trailers. 
They smuggle people into HK in trailer too..... (I bet they will fit into the box like those cards. lol)

The cooler on this card looks ugly....
But the price is sexy:
http://graphics.beareyes.com.cn/2/lib/200701/15/20070115378.htm

Even more sexy....
http://graphics.beareyes.com.cn/2/lib/200701/17/20070117189.htm


----------



## JustinHEMI05 (Jan 19, 2007)

Hey All

New to the site and new to building PCs... as you can see under my system specs.   Anyway, what I have done to make this POS a little better was a new power supply and graphics card. That being the ATI Radeon X1950 pro  I will post pics/specs as soon as I get a chance. I am getting ready to do away with this dell soon and am definitely sticking with this card... it rocks!

Justin


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 19, 2007)

JustinHEMI05 said:


> Hey All
> 
> New to the site and new to building PCs... as you can see under my system specs.   Anyway, what I have done to make this POS a little better was a new power supply and graphics card. That being the ATI Radeon X1950 pro  I will post pics/specs as soon as I get a chance. I am getting ready to do away with this dell soon and am definitely sticking with this card... it rocks!
> 
> Justin



Yeh get the stuff I recommended. Its good shit... the motherboard that I recommended is cheap and can support crossfire. Make sure you read the instruction manual 99999 times.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 19, 2007)

Some pics of the X1950XT? Wow that PCB is bare.


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 19, 2007)

2 Version of X1950GT Above.
The thing is they just cost slightly more than a X1650XT.
That thing simply trashes the X1650XT and 7600GT at the same price....


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 19, 2007)

X1950GT = 7900GS  at a cheaper price while the X1950PRO = 7900GT, 7950GT at a cheaper price. RUN NVIDIA RUN!


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 19, 2007)

Darth Vidia is going to be the main character in:
Card Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Shit
Wielding the next generation DX10 8600Ultra Light Saber.


----------



## Taz100420 (Jan 19, 2007)

Zubasa said:


> Darth Vidia is going to be the main character in:
> Card Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Shit
> Wielding the 8600Ultra Light Saber.



 

good one lol


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 19, 2007)

How will AMD Kenobi counter this attack?
While his DX9 spec X1950Pro Light Saber is aging and his new DX10 X2600XT Saber yet to be forged.
Will AMD Kenobi be fighting with bare hands!?

Or will he use his famous Crossfire Attack to counter Darth Vidia's devesating Quad-SLI attack!?

We invite you to enjoy this epic battle at your rig, and each copy of "Card Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Shit" is on sale only for US$400 each!


----------



## anticlutch (Jan 19, 2007)

The "official" photo: 



My photos:











The case is a bit messy but it was the best I could do.

Edit: 3d mark 05 score 9876
       No OC as of now because I'm waiting for ATI Tool to officially support the x1950pro.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 19, 2007)

anticlutch said:


> The "official" photo:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice "Picture" I'm afraid they are too small, take a picture of the card (bottom view looking up) without the bling, with an external light source that is bright and then take one with all the bling all turned up-without the sidepanel.


----------



## JdPower (Jan 19, 2007)

hey tkpenalty, 

I have a further OC on my card its up to 729/1116 I'll post it later on today...


----------



## HellasVagabond (Jan 19, 2007)

Since im too a new ATI X1950XT card owner ( Had the 9700pro / 9800XT years ago ) im posting photos here...However no 3dmark cause i seem to be the only one with the 06 version...
So here are some photos of my rig.
( Main Rig Specs : Core 2 Duo 6600@3200mhz - X1950XT@655/1854 - 2GB DDR800@4-4-4-14 )

DISPLAY




INTERNAL1 ( Night )




INTERNAL2 ( Day )




CPU - GPU


----------



## JdPower (Jan 19, 2007)

HellasVagabond said:


> Since im too a new ATI X1950XT card owner ( Had the 9700pro / 9800XT years ago ) im posting photos here...However no 3dmark cause i seem to be the only one with the 06 version...
> So here are some photos of my rig.
> ( Main Rig Specs : Core 2 Duo 6600@3200mhz - X1950XT@655/1854 - 2GB DDR800@4-4-4-14 )
> 
> ...



you my friend need cable management!


----------



## HellasVagabond (Jan 19, 2007)

I know but so far i havent got the time to figure out what to change..
3dmark 05 score coming up...





Dissapointed abit but its not that bad 
Must be a incompatibility with the new Core 2 Duo Cpus or else i dont know why..


----------



## boecke (Jan 19, 2007)

Sheesh, so many cables.. you don't have a window on that thing do you?
I got most of my cables hidden and off the mainboard, especially so it's not blocking the airflow of the fans. 

'll take some pictures of the card by the way tkpenalty.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 19, 2007)

boecke said:


> Sheesh, so many cables.. you don't have a window on that thing do you?
> I got most of my cables hidden and off the mainboard, especially so it's not blocking the airflow of the fans.
> 
> 'll take some pictures of the card by the way tkpenalty.



x2'ed 

Do some cable management and read the rules. 800x600 sized images only now.... That is scary. PLEASE DON'T KILL US WITH THE LACK OF CABLE MANAGEMENT!!! You wouldn't need those fans if the cables weren't horribly unorganized.


----------



## HellasVagabond (Jan 19, 2007)

2 OPTICAL DRIVES - 5 HDDs - 1 FLOPPY - 2 USB REAR EXTRA CONTROLLERS - 8 8CM FANS - 1 12CM FAN - POWER CABLES FOR THE MAINBOARD AND ATI...

How am i suppose to do cable management ???


----------



## boecke (Jan 19, 2007)

Hmmm, basically you can use cable ties if you like.. to tie up cables that you can push behind places like in between the CD-ROM drives and the HDD stack.

What I did was just moved all the cables off the mainboard, I tied them up with cable ties and rubber bands, then I tried to push them out of the way.. I had to unplug some cables though to get them all sorted out and untangled.


----------



## mikek75 (Jan 19, 2007)

Just fitted a Zalman VF900 to my Sapphire X1950Pro, along with heatsinks for the VRM's. Fantastic bit of kit, idle temps have gone from 45c to 34c, max load from 68c to 46c! I had none of the reported problems with the Sapphire card, I just wanted to upgrade the cooling, which this kit has done nicely. Had to get a bit creative with a hacksaw to cut the heatsinks to fit the VRMs, but very satisfying to see that it works so well. No rise in case temps either.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 19, 2007)

mikek75 said:


> Just fitted a Zalman VF900 to my Sapphire X1950Pro, along with heatsinks for the VRM's. Fantastic bit of kit, idle temps have gone from 45c to 34c, max load from 68c to 46c! I had none of the reported problems with the Sapphire card, I just wanted to upgrade the cooling, which this kit has done nicely. Had to get a bit creative with a hacksaw to cut the heatsinks to fit the VRMs, but very satisfying to see that it works so well. No rise in case temps either.



If you lived in either the USA or Australia you would have the problem of heat in summer.


----------



## mikek75 (Jan 19, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> That is the reason why Ultimate was introduced. The reference is complete copper >_>. Yeh... change the thermal gum. Any thermal paste does better than thermal GUM



That is untrue, the PCB of the standard Sapphire card is pre-drilled for the Ultimates' heatsink, which proves that the Ultimate was in the pipeline from the beginning.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 19, 2007)

mikek75 said:


> That is untrue, the PCB of the standard Sapphire card is pre-drilled for the Ultimates' heatsink, which proves that the Ultimate was in the pipeline from the beginning.



 That untrue dude, zalman coolers were designed to fit. They weren't pre-drilled because the holes on all the standard X1950PROs are the same. They weren't made for the ultimates' heatsink, the Zalman VF900CU Sapphire Custom with the other heatsinks were MADE for the X1950PRO.


----------



## mikek75 (Jan 19, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> If you lived in either the USA or Australia you would have the problem of heat in summer.



At the moment I have the central heating up high (25c) and am getting those temps. Say it was 30c, I'd still only have 50c under load.


----------



## mikek75 (Jan 19, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> That untrue dude, zalman coolers were designed to fit. They weren't pre-drilled because the holes on all the standard X1950PROs are the same.



What? I've had my card apart today, and have seen the holes which take the screws for the Ultimates heatsink, I'm not talking about the holes for the cooler itself. If not designed specifically for the Ultimate, they are there for the fitment of a heatsink. Why else would there be holes there.


----------



## Maju (Jan 19, 2007)

Well here's mine

Saphire X1950XTX with Thermalright HR03 on Abit AT8 32x Crossfire/AMD 64 3700+







oversize heatsink on Ram just coz they were lying around and extra fan to cool them when necessary. Both fans linked to fan controller to adjust manually.

Only scores around 5200 in 3Dmark06. Is it me or is this a bit low?
CPU@2.2ghz - 2GB pc3200 Ram

That said it still does pretty well with anything i've thrown at it so far


----------



## boecke (Jan 19, 2007)

You're doing better than me in 3DMark06, I get around 4800 3DMarks.
That looks pretty nice actually, good job mate.


----------



## HellasVagabond (Jan 20, 2007)

The 3700 is propably bottlenecking your XTX...


----------



## boecke (Jan 20, 2007)

What would you suggest as a replacement?
Something from the X2 range? AMD 3800+ X2 maybe.


----------



## cdawall (Jan 20, 2007)

HellasVagabond said:


> The 3700 is propably bottlenecking your XTX...



a 3700 will NOT bottleneck an XTX are you crazy?

oh and a 3800 X2 is only 2ghz just dual core so it would be worse than the 2.4ghz 3700


----------



## JdPower (Jan 20, 2007)

Maju said:


> Well here's mine
> 
> Saphire X1950XTX with Thermalright HR03 on Abit AT8 32x Crossfire/AMD 64 3700+
> 
> ...



Oh thats sexy! How do you like that vga cooler? I am thinking about getting that thing? Temps way better then stock or a little better?


----------



## xman2007 (Jan 20, 2007)

cdawall said:


> a 3700 will NOT bottleneck an XTX are you crazy?
> 
> oh and a 3800 X2 is only 2ghz just dual core so it would be worse than the 2.4ghz 3700



nm was looking at wrong post


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 20, 2007)

Boecke dont replace the 3700, overclock it, it will do 3.1Gig no problems.


----------



## xman2007 (Jan 20, 2007)

boecke said:


> You're doing better than me in 3DMark06, I get around 4800 3DMarks.
> That looks pretty nice actually, good job mate.



how do you get 4800 in 3dmark06 with a xfire setup??? my single x1950pro scores 4900


----------



## boecke (Jan 20, 2007)

I haven't got the CrossFire card in yet, ahaha.


----------



## xman2007 (Jan 20, 2007)

so whats that score with ? a x1950xt ? still seems a low score


----------



## niko084 (Jan 20, 2007)

How are the standard ATI branded X1950Pro coolers and cards, looking at buying one very soon to replace my x1300xt, and probably another gig of ram to go with it.


----------



## boecke (Jan 20, 2007)

Well for starters, I don't have DDR2 memory.. and secondly I don't have a Dual Core Processor, like you do (duh) hence the 100 or so 3DMark difference.

There you go


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 20, 2007)

xman2007 said:


> so whats that score with ? a x1950xt ? still seems a low score


The CPU Test in 3DMark06 explain why. I bet you will get a higher score than a XTX if you have QX6700....


----------



## JdPower (Jan 20, 2007)

You guys think these scores are right?


----------



## DOM (Jan 20, 2007)

well heres my pics of my 1950XT and case


----------



## Maju (Jan 20, 2007)

JDPower
"Oh thats sexy! How do you like that vga cooler? I am thinking about getting that thing? Temps way better then stock or a little better?"

Idling for 20min 36 degrees
Gaming for 30min (X3) 46-50 degrees. with case temp at 17.4 degrees

A little bit better than stock temps I think. Personally I like this cooler. My only grumble is that I couldn't connect the fan control to the cards fan so I have to manually adjust the fans speed. Not too much of a problem though.


----------



## HellasVagabond (Jan 20, 2007)

3dmark 2006 score...
Not too fast but not too low either.....


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 20, 2007)

I cannot see the picture  
Please do not use imageshack which is in US 
The undersea fiber optic cable are not yet fixed...


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 20, 2007)

Zubasa said:


> I cannot see the picture
> Please do not use imageshack which is in US
> The undersea fiber optic cable are not yet fixed...



Anyone who uses Image shack shall be kicked from the club.



























Not


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 20, 2007)

niko084 said:


> How are the standard ATI branded X1950Pro coolers and cards, looking at buying one very soon to replace my x1300xt, and probably another gig of ram to go with it.



Just get the ATI Radeon Powercolor X1950PRO Extreme 256mb/512mb because its the same price as the standard ATI Branded X1950PROs. (And it comes with lifetime warranty)


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 20, 2007)

Are we going to have a Clubhouse Signature or not?


----------



## xman2007 (Jan 20, 2007)

boecke said:


> Well for starters, I don't have DDR2 memory.. and secondly I don't have a Dual Core Processor, like you do (duh) hence the 100 or so 3DMark difference.
> 
> There you go



duh?  lol well for starters your ddr probably performs on a par if not better than my ddrII also i still would of thought with a x1950xt you still would of beat my score with your single core 3700. so a 3700 is a bottleneck to some effect as someone else pointed out earlier, albeit not in most games.


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 20, 2007)

No too low, check my siggie but to be fair that may be cause your CPU at that speed is bottlenecking that XTX.  That seems a high CPU voltage for that speed, mine does that speed on 1.3V.


----------



## xman2007 (Jan 20, 2007)

anyone know what kind of fps i should be getting in cod 2, i maxed everything out at 1024x768 with 4xaa and 16xaf and it lags like hell 25-30fps, im sure this isnt right, i can run doom3 on ultra at constant 60fps (doom 3's limit i think) but 25-30fps is ridiculous


----------



## boecke (Jan 20, 2007)

I get around 80fps on all maps with: Anisoptric Filtering, DirectX 9, 6x Anti-Aliasing, 1440 x 900 Widescreen.

What are your settings in Catalyst?
You should probably switch all the settings to "Let the application decide" because Catalyst might be the problem there.


----------



## xman2007 (Jan 20, 2007)

right i had it on max settings for everything except shadows was turned off as i know this can be a big lag (surely not on an x1950pro though ?  ), set aa + af to let application decide, set my desktop at 1024x768@85hz and restarted the game and the same thing 20-25fps this time ???? went back into setup in cod2 and ENABLED shadows and optimise for sli and bang, straight in at 60-70fps ?? wtf lol


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 20, 2007)

Zubasa said:


> Are we going to have a Clubhouse Signature or not?



Im trying to get Photoshop to work properly X_X... it doesn't want to register! WTF? I PAID MONEY FOR THIS *Stamps on the disc jks jks..*


----------



## mikek75 (Jan 20, 2007)

? You paid money for Photoshop?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 20, 2007)

mikek75 said:


> ? You paid money for Photoshop?



From my friend... from what it looks like I think he gave me a fake. Paint Shop PRO 5 time!





For the XTX owners.. Ill post more later.




For the X1950PRO owners


----------



## mikek75 (Jan 20, 2007)

Torrentspy has an excellent CS2...... but don't tell anyone I said so!


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 20, 2007)

mikek75 said:


> Torrentspy has an excellent CS2...... but don't tell anyone I said so!



Um... no thanks.


----------



## JdPower (Jan 21, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> No too low, check my siggie but to be fair that may be cause your CPU at that speed is bottlenecking that XTX.  That seems a high CPU voltage for that speed, mine does that speed on 1.3V.



Tatty is that to my posted scores or the other guy?


----------



## anticlutch (Jan 21, 2007)

Took some pictures while I was cleaning the dust out of the case:













If the images seem too small, try clicking on them.

I know the wires are kind of messy, but I don't feel motivated to redo everything because the airflow is fine, and when the side is closed, you really can't see the wires


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 21, 2007)

anticlutch said:


> Took some pictures while I was cleaning the dust out of the case:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They aren't even loading! I had to recode it for you...

DONT USE IMAGESHACK IT WILL NOT WORK ON TPU, I WILL NOT ADD THE IMAGES. USE TPU OR PHOTOBUCKET


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 21, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> From my friend... from what it looks like I think he gave me a fake. Paint Shop PRO 5 time!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice~
But any luck on a blue Sapphire version? 
(I know you don't really like Sapphire but... lol)

Damn, the limit is 19.5kb.....


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 21, 2007)

Zubasa said:


> Nice~
> But any luck on a blue Sapphire version?
> (I know you don't really like Sapphire but... lol)
> 
> Damn, the limit is 19.5kb.....



You read my mind!


----------



## anticlutch (Jan 21, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> They aren't even loading! I had to recode it for you...
> 
> DONT USE IMAGESHACK IT WILL NOT WORK ON TPU, I WILL NOT ADD THE IMAGES. USE TPU OR PHOTOBUCKET




Ah, sorry. I didn't like how the limit for TPU was ~200 kb per picture, so I used imageshack...













Reposted using photo bucket.

Status of the card: Up & running


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 21, 2007)

Very nice  






Here ya go sapphire X1950PRO freaks. The X1950XTX sig pic is universal unless your one has a different cooler (like HIS).

How do I downsize it so its under 19.5kbs?


----------



## DOM (Jan 21, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Very nice
> 
> 
> 
> ...



  wheres my HIS


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 21, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> wheres my HIS



Um guys harvest me X1950PRO, X1950XT and X1950XTX full GPU view pics. Because I cbf right now.


----------



## SPHERE (Jan 21, 2007)

sup dudes im lookin for anyone with a x1950xt 256mb (lookin to get ahold of the bios) if anyone has one drop me a personal message thanks dudes


----------



## boecke (Jan 21, 2007)

I've got an X1950 XT 256mb (PowerColor) but I don't know whether i'd be able to get the BIOS for you.


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 21, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Very nice
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Beautiful~
I don't know how to down size it, but I think the 19.5 kb limit is kinda ridiculous...


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 21, 2007)

Ow!!!.. My Fucking Generic Case Cut Me!


----------



## xman2007 (Jan 21, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Ow!!!.. My Fucking Generic Case Cut Me!



tightwad buy a decent case  





oh wait i have a cheap generic case too


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 21, 2007)

xman2007 said:


> tightwad buy a decent case
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I just found out what cut me... It wasn't the case but a god damn razor I had on the floor, trying to trim an intake undervent.

(OW MY FUCKING FINGER)


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 21, 2007)

I guess I manage to make it fit by resizing it to 80%.
And I increased the compression.


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 21, 2007)

O.O
It actually would fit if i reduce it to 490*98 pixels 

Edit: The normal one will fit also 

Edit2: And so does the XTX version


----------



## HellasVagabond (Jan 21, 2007)

No XT version ?


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 21, 2007)

HellasVagabond said:


> No XT version ?


Go bug tkpenalty for that


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 21, 2007)

Zubasa said:


> Go bug tkpenalty for that



Doing it... by tommorow you will have one. Zubasa, can you do the down-sizing for me?






That one is for myself and others with AcceleroX2s bolted on.


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 21, 2007)

Done.


----------



## zekrahminator (Jan 21, 2007)

Your leader asked me to fix one of your sigpics (I assume final version?) so that it would fit the size limit, PM me if you want me to shrinkitize a different one to fit the TPU sig.


----------



## DOM (Jan 21, 2007)

make sure you get a HIS X1950XT to


----------



## boecke (Jan 21, 2007)

Here is the R580 BIOS for the Radeon X1950 XT.
Requested by SPHERE.


----------



## meTARGET (Jan 21, 2007)

I have a powercolor x1950pro extreme. Is working perfect, but monitor is not going into sleep mode. Does anyone have an answer.


----------



## anticlutch (Jan 21, 2007)

meTARGET said:


> I have a powercolor x1950pro extreme. Is working perfect, but monitor is not going into sleep mode. Does anyone have an answer.



Maybe you didn't change your power settings to allow it?

Right click on the desktop > properties> click on the screen saver tab > then press the "power" button. from there you should be able to set when your monitor turns off


----------



## meTARGET (Jan 21, 2007)

*Sleep mode*

I have done this, computer will go to sleep mode monitor does not.


----------



## anticlutch (Jan 21, 2007)

meTARGET said:


> I have done this computer will go to sleep mode monitor does not.



So  you're saying that even after you changed the power settings (the "Turn off monitor", not the "System standby"), it still fails to go into sleep mode? Odd. That was the only solution that I could think of... you probably should just wait for more knowledgeable people to help you out


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 21, 2007)

Go to properties (desktop), then go to the screen saver tab, then click power. You will find the option for sleep mode.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 21, 2007)

zekrahminator said:


> Your leader asked me to fix one of your sigpics (I assume final version?) so that it would fit the size limit, PM me if you want me to shrinkitize a different one to fit the TPU sig.



 But...I can't see it for some odd reason.

I'm making many of them for each different model, like standard sigpics for the PRO, XT, XTX, then I will have brand specific signatures, like the sapphire and powercolor I submitted.
You can use the standard editions if you want though.

I need some Demo pics of the X1950XT... impossible to find.


----------



## DOM (Jan 21, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> But...I can't see it for some odd reason.
> 
> I'm making many of them for each different model, like standard sigpics for the PRO, XT, XTX, then I will have brand specific signatures, like the sapphire and powercolor I submitted.
> You can use the standard editions if you want though.
> ...



well i can take pic of my HIS X1950XT but well that work ?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 21, 2007)

Okay, take it out of the case to give the demo pic, take a photo of it so most of it would fit on the sig when I downsize it, lay it on an A3 piece of white, blue or black piece of paper. 
First take a picture of it installed thoug and IT MUST USE A STOCK COOLER!!!11oneoneone

(My finger still hurts...)


----------



## DOM (Jan 21, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Okay, take it out of the case to give the demo pic, take a photo of it so most of it would fit on the sig when I downsize it, lay it on an A3 piece of white, blue or black piece of paper.
> First take a picture of it installed thoug and IT MUST USE A STOCK COOLER!!!11oneoneone
> 
> (My finger still hurts...)



installed   you already have my pic of that well it might have to wait till tomorrow cuz my wife wants to leave the house


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 21, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> installed   you already have my pic of that well it might have to wait till tomorrow cuz my wife wants to leave the house



Well after being an accidental emo don't you think I lost enough blood to forget?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 22, 2007)

Hmm... so check first page for signature update guys!

777 posts.

Heres the latest batch of them zek, post them on photobucket as everything else doesnt work :/


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 22, 2007)

HIS Fans here ya go, this for all the X1950s with HIS coolers






UPDATED: Other sigs that work:






'

















=========================================================================================================
If you are in the club and you want a custom sig, just PM me.


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 22, 2007)

The Sapphire version you have is over 19.5kb.
Use the one I am using instead.


----------



## JdPower (Jan 22, 2007)

I cant put the first ATI X1950XTX in my sig... won't work. Too large?


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 22, 2007)

JdPower said:


> I cant put the first ATI X1950XTX in my sig... won't work. Too large?


It shouldn't be, it is only 18kB or so.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 22, 2007)

JdPower said:


> I cant put the first ATI X1950XTX in my sig... won't work. Too large?



One picture at a time... You can't have more than two.


----------



## SPHERE (Jan 22, 2007)

boecke said:


> Here is the R580 BIOS for the Radeon X1950 XT.
> Requested by SPHERE.


thanks bro


----------



## boecke (Jan 22, 2007)

Hey, I've just connected a ATI Radeon X1950 CrossFire Edition Card and a ATI Radeon X1950 XT card as the slave. What happens is, I turn on CrossFire Mode, reboot and try and play Call of Duty 2.. It doesn't even load up the main menu, it just freezes and reboots.

Is there a problem with my power supply? it's 550W but it's not really a great PSU considering the brand is called like "BESTA" or something.

I'm thinking of getting a ThermalTake Tough Power 600W if i have to replace it.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 22, 2007)

boecke said:


> Hey, I've just connected a ATI Radeon X1950 CrossFire Edition Card and a ATI Radeon X1950 XT card as the slave. What happens is, I turn on CrossFire Mode, reboot and try and play Call of Duty 2.. It doesn't even load up the main menu, it just freezes and reboots.
> 
> Is there a problem with my power supply? it's 550W but it's not really a great PSU considering the brand is called like "BESTA" or something.
> 
> I'm thinking of getting a ThermalTake Tough Power 600W if i have to replace it.



BESTA = death... Im surprised if it even manages 300W, let alone 550W


----------



## boecke (Jan 22, 2007)

Oh well, So it's a new PSU for me then.
I never knew CrossFire could be so much trouble, heh 

It's all good though, I have around $150 to spend.


----------



## SPHERE (Jan 22, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> BESTA = death... Im surprised if it even manages 300W, let alone 550W


 www.pcpowerandcooling.com


----------



## boecke (Jan 22, 2007)

I'm not in America and I don't think those products are stocked over here so 
I think ThermalTake will do me just fine though, I'd go with OCZ but they're not ATI "CrossFire Certified"


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 22, 2007)

If they are SLI certified than they are good as well (Virtually the same... just brand hogging).
I got a Cooler Master iGreen 600W SLi Certified.

With SLI you will get the same problems with that crappy, false watt rating piece of shit.


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 22, 2007)

VERY Nice siggies.....almost makes me wanna get a 1950!.......but not quite


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 22, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> VERY Nice siggies.....almost makes me wanna get a 1950!.......but not quite



lol 

Guys, anymore requests for sigs?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 23, 2007)

Um... does anyone know a way to get rid of trapped hot air from the X1950PRO without disturbing the intake fan?


----------



## anticlutch (Jan 23, 2007)

By using another fan that sucks air away from the heatsink?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 23, 2007)

anticlutch said:


> By using another fan that sucks air away from the heatsink?



That will make it worse by supplying the intake fan with hot air T_T... no choice... I have to buy a blower fan. But they are overpriced like shit! I used to have one but my dad used it for his car or something.


----------



## boecke (Jan 23, 2007)

Heh, I ended up buying a ZALMAN ZM600-HP.
Has a nice bad ass Blue Internal LED and it's all black, Modular PSU aswell.

Hopefully all runs well.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 23, 2007)

boecke said:


> Heh, I ended up buying a ZALMAN ZM600-HP.
> Has a nice bad ass Blue Internal LED and it's all black, Modular PSU aswell.
> 
> Hopefully all runs well.



Wow...Zalman is nice. Get two VF900 CUs for your PC and aim for the most silent PC you can get. Get a CNPS7700CU/CNPS9700NT(Gay nvidia) AT


----------



## boecke (Jan 23, 2007)

The only thing I don't like about those ZALMAN coolers is that they're so ugly.
I suppose performance outweighs looks though, when I get enough money i'll do some looking around for cooling, maybe new RAM aswell.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 23, 2007)

.... you hurt me on a personal level....


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 23, 2007)

In terms of looks, I think the Arctic Coolers on average looks better.

Zalman is a Korean company that make good stuff, but they don't necessarily look impressive


----------



## boecke (Jan 23, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> .... you hurt me on a personal level....



Awww, I take it back.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 23, 2007)

Zalman = Arctic Cooling.


----------



## boecke (Jan 23, 2007)

What's a good Water Block for the X1950 GPU?
I'm looking at getting a whole watercooling setup later on, don't know whether it should be custom made or just a whole kit.

Over 300 posts in this thread! :O


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 23, 2007)

boecke said:


> What's a good Water Block for the X1950 GPU?
> I'm looking at getting a whole watercooling setup later on, don't know whether it should be custom made or just a whole kit.
> 
> Over 300 posts in this thread! :O



Hmm.. I like zalman ROFL, Seriously Zalman are good for water cooling but their choices are dear.

http://service.futuremark.com/orb/resultanalyzer.jsp?projectType=12&XLID=0&UID=7720598 

3D Marks Score.. just need to OC a bit more.


----------



## JdPower (Jan 23, 2007)

boecke said:


> What's a good Water Block for the X1950 GPU?
> I'm looking at getting a whole watercooling setup later on, don't know whether it should be custom made or just a whole kit.
> 
> Over 300 posts in this thread! :O



MCW60 swiftech with ramsinks, or you can fo to the more expensive route with the DangerGen Tyee its up to you.  Swiftech has a kit for $350.00 which comes with a

Dual 120mm Rad, Resevoir, High flow pump, CPU block (Apogee GT), chipset block, VGA block with ramsinks and tubing, and coolant. Its I think called Swiftech H20 "Ultra" Premium Kit.


----------



## boecke (Jan 23, 2007)

Borat: "Nice!"


----------



## mikek75 (Jan 23, 2007)

boecke said:


> The only thing I don't like about those ZALMAN coolers is that they're so ugly.
> I suppose performance outweighs looks though, when I get enough money i'll do some looking around for cooling, maybe new RAM aswell.









Personally I think the Zalman looks better than the Artic, but then I'm a biker who prefers half faired bikes where you can see the engine


----------



## boecke (Jan 23, 2007)

I suppose they don't look that bad, but then again there is some pretty cool (pun) products out there. Maybe we could come up with a list of solutions for cooling on the front page of the "X1950 Owner Clubhouse" thread?


----------



## mikek75 (Jan 23, 2007)

Performance is bloody good as well, 42c is the maximum I've seen during gaming. It hit 46c during the Overdrive auto-clocking utility, and idles at 34c-35c. Its inaudible as well, certainly I can't hear it above the noise of my CPU fan. Well happy with it!


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 23, 2007)

boecke said:


> I suppose they don't look that bad, but then again there is some pretty cool (pun) products out there. Maybe we could come up with a list of solutions for cooling on the front page of the "X1950 Owner Clubhouse" thread?



I've already did that 

VF900 IMHO is so tiny! I thought it would be huuuge. It does provide better cooling for the core honestly. HOWEVER, the memory cooling isn't that good; they should use copper ramsinks or at least a heatpipe system. Well at least the aluminium came from down under; the best quality in the world. However I do have something to criticise about zalman's VF900/VF700 Series, if it IS intended to cool the memory, as well as the core, wouldn't it be logical to have a side blowing (Or angled 45* down) blower fan?

The accelero X2 has a casing to slipstream the cooling and making sure that the heat does not go backwards. Since the fan is actually an angled "reversed" blower, with the motor being slipstreamed, moves a huge amount of air. The "valleys" of the special blades are almost 90* and blow air sideways and not directly downwards.
Due to the three (four?) heat pipes which cool the memory and core. As well as a blow-out vent which cool the voltage chips on the side.
It sucks for AGP though, because some of the holes for mounting (IMHO not needed anyway) aren't there. 
The air moves through the fins which dissipate heat from the heatpipes, but I reckon there

One huge problem I forsee for some X1950PRO and X1950GTs is the odd placement of the capacitors. Some Companies have done the right thing and moved all that stuff towards the right of the PCB (Also getting sort of large but better capacitors), but some people who will buy the dirt-cheap X1950GTs will be dissapointed when they find huge capacitors all over the PCB, preventing any possible installation.


----------



## mikek75 (Jan 23, 2007)

Those ramsinks do a good enough job though, my memory would only clock to 729 before, I'm now at 769 and have got through 3d05 at 784. You should feel the airflow that comes from the fan, which sucks air in and blows down over the chips.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 23, 2007)

mikek75 said:


> Those ramsinks do a good enough job though, my memory would only clock to 729 before, I'm now at 769 and have got through 3d05 at 784. You should feel the airflow that comes from the fan, which sucks air in and blows down over the chips.


 
I can do 800  (OMG NVIDIA CLUBWH*RES IS COPYING ALL MY IDEAS!!! TIME FOR SOME FORUM PATENTING!!!!111)


----------



## boecke (Jan 23, 2007)

I'd have to agree, I say we do a drive-by on those punkass nVidia fans.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 23, 2007)

Hey does anyone have some cool tribal tatoo designs? (not on skin, just white with the design).
I think its time to spiff your sigs up since they are taking the offensive.


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 24, 2007)

boecke said:


> I'd have to agree, I say we do a drive-by on those punkass nVidia fans.



Lol, reckon most of your members aint old enuff to drive  and anyways, if your wheels are anythin like the 1950pro's (non HIS) stock coolers we will hear you from 10 miles away!  

On a serious note, anyone got any info on performance for 2 crossfired Sapphire 1950pro's? I got offered a crossfire mobo (ABit, socket 939) and 2 sapphires today in part exchange for my mobo, my 1950XT 256MB (warranty replacement for 1800XT) when it arrives from Connect 3D and £50, not a bad deal mefinks.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 24, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Lol, reckon most of your members aint old enuff to drive  and anyways, if your wheels are anythin like the 1950pro's (non HIS) stock coolers we will hear you from 10 miles away!
> 
> On a serious note, anyone got any info on performance for 2 crossfired Sapphire 1950pro's? I got offered a crossfire mobo (ABit, socket 939) and 2 sapphires today in part exchange for my mobo, my 1950XT 256MB (warranty replacement for 1800XT) when it arrives from Connect 3D and £50, not a bad deal mefinks.



OMG LUCKY....  

Around 5~6k in 3DMarks 06, 11~12k in 05. (Heavily reliant on your CPU). If you are unfortunate like lazzer then... you won't see any performance increases but-HOLY SHIT 3.27GHZ!!!


----------



## mikek75 (Jan 24, 2007)

Here's a page from Sapphire's forum, post #234 has two 1950pro's http://www.sapphiretech.com/en/forums/showthread.php?t=9535&page=24&pp=10


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 24, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> OMG LUCKY....
> 
> Around 5~6k in 3DMarks 06, 11~12k in 05. (Heavily reliant on your CPU). If you are unfortunate like lazzer then... you won't see any performance increases but-HOLY SHIT 3.27GHZ!!!




Gotta be more than that, I get near on 12000 now with the single 7900GTO and almost 11000 with the old 1800XT what you reckon in Crossfire with a San Diego running at 3.2Gig?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 24, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Gotta be more than that, I get near on 12000 now with the single 7900GTO and almost 11000 with the old 1800XT what you reckon in Crossfire with a San Diego running at 3.2Gig?



Probably more.

11~15k with crossfire more like. Single would be 9k~11k


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 24, 2007)

mikek75 said:


> Here's a page from Sapphire's forum, post #234 has two 1950pro's http://www.sapphiretech.com/en/forums/showthread.php?t=9535&page=24&pp=10



Thats very useful thanks, reckon I could prob hit 15000+, might just be worth doing, will need to give it some thought, the ABit Xfire mobo is sposed to be an excellent overclocker too, I would not go for it if I thought I would lose performance outta my trusty Sandy......thanks.

Edit:  maybe thats being optimistic, with 2 cards would a dual core be better suited or play no part?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 24, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Thats very useful thanks, reckon I could prob hit 15000+, might just be worth doing, will need to give it some thought, the ABit Xfire mobo is sposed to be an excellent overclocker too, I would not go for it if I thought I would lose performance outta my trusty Sandy......thanks.
> 
> Edit:  maybe thats being optimistic, with 2 cards would a dual core be better suited or play no part?



Dual core would give it a tiny performance boost, but at your clocks it doesn't matter anymore  

I say get 2 AcceleroX2s and OC to 640/800

You can be a member and the signature is not compulsory


----------



## boecke (Jan 24, 2007)

"Come to the darkside Luke"


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 24, 2007)

boecke said:


> "Come to the darkside Luke"



How do you say it when the dark side is the good side? 

"Come to the BrightSide Luke" ??? wtf?


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 24, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Dual core would give it a tiny performance boost, but at your clocks it doesn't matter anymore
> 
> I say get 2 AcceleroX2s and OC to 640/800
> 
> You can be a member and the signature is not compulsory



Got 2 Accelero's already so am on me way!


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 24, 2007)

have already got one foot in the darkside.....1800XT remember.  Do single cards really get 11000 without like a C2D running at 3.5Gig....ie mainstream?  Most of what I have read in here suggests nearer 10000?


----------



## boecke (Jan 24, 2007)

I'm pretty sure they do.

CrossFire Problem #5: I can run CrossFire Mode with Windowed Mode but I can't run it with Fullscreen Mode (just freezes the game up at main menu of Counter-Strike: Source), Any idea?, heh.


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 24, 2007)

boecke said:


> I'm pretty sure they do.
> 
> CrossFire Problem #5: I can run CrossFire Mode with Windowed Mode but I can't run it with Fullscreen Mode (just freezes the game up at main menu of Counter-Strike: Source), Any idea?, heh.




yeah.....go Nvidia and SLi, they have been doing it right for soooooo much longer


----------



## jms45 (Jan 24, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> yeah.....go Nvidia and SLi, they have been doing it right for soooooo much longer



lol  cheeky!


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 24, 2007)

I know.........I couldnt resist it, it's all meant in good spirits!


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 24, 2007)

boecke said:


> I'm pretty sure they do.
> 
> CrossFire Problem #5: I can run CrossFire Mode with Windowed Mode but I can't run it with Fullscreen Mode (just freezes the game up at main menu of Counter-Strike: Source), Any idea?, heh.



Nvidia and their false claims.


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 24, 2007)

Going back to my previous point about my warranty replacement and my offer for an Abit S939 crossfired mobo and 2 x Sapphire 256MB 1950pro's, my contact has actually offered me 2 x 1950XT's instead of the Pro's at no extra cost, are these Crossfire 2 (no master card requirement) also?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 24, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Going back to my previous point about my warranty replacement and my offer for an Abit S939 crossfired mobo and 2 x Sapphire 256MB 1950pro's, my contact has actually offered me 2 x 1950XT's instead of the Pro's at no extra cost, are these Crossfire 2 (no master card requirement) also?



...If one of them isn't crossfire edition then say "no dude stuff u".


http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/395/11/

Burn 7900GS BURN!!!


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 24, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> ...If one of them isn't crossfire edition then say "no dude stuff u".
> 
> 
> http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/395/11/
> ...



So you do need a master card for the 1950XT unlike the Pro?


----------



## mikek75 (Jan 24, 2007)

Yeah, the XT needs a master. The Pro connects with an internal bridge similar to SLI. All Pros have the crossfire gubbins built into the core, much neater.


----------



## Schnookums (Jan 24, 2007)

WOAH  What is that!?!? Looks 1333333337!!! I bet it cools like a mofo!


----------



## boecke (Jan 24, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> So you do need a master card for the 1950XT unlike the Pro?



The X1950 XT requires a CrossFire Edition card from the same Radeon GPU Family.
In other words you'll need the X1950 CrossFire Edition or the X1900 CrossFire Edition.

Good luck trying to set it up though, what do you think I'm doing now.


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 24, 2007)

boecke said:


> The X1950 XT requires a CrossFire Edition card from the same Radeon GPU Family.
> In other words you'll need the X1950 CrossFire Edition or the X1900 CrossFire Edition.
> 
> Good luck trying to set it up though, what do you think I'm doing now.



Hmmmmmm.....dunno, popping down the shop to buy a Nvidia SLi rig because you want REAL dual card performance perhaps???????


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 24, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Hmmmmmm.....dunno, popping down the shop to buy a Nvidia SLi rig because you want REAL dual card performance perhaps???????



2x X1950PROs will give you great performance. Did you ask though?


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 24, 2007)

Well on advice here I am not going to go for the 2 x 1950XT's that requires a master so if it's the ATi Option I think I will go for the 2 x 1950Pro's, I can actually get 2 of the Gecube 1950pro 512MB FZ Supercooled silent turbo that stocks at 680 core and 1620 memory in the warrnty replacement deal, a link to the card is here, grateful for any thoughts, they will give me these two instead of the 1950XT's, (well under negotiation!)

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-138-SP


So the way it stacks up is this:

1.  Warranty replaced 1800XT.....get one of those badboys above.
2.  Have been offered £170 for my 7900GTO, the odd rare ones left are only about £10 more but overclock results with them vary a lot....I have a gem here so my friend wants it!.... thats the second Pro above bought.
3.  Been offered £50 for my Epox S939 NF4 Ultra mobo as long as I throw in a brand new unused good quality spare cooler I have.
4.  That will pay for the ABit crossfire motherboard, I think its called the MVR-8 something, excellent write ups.

Anyways, until I get agreement from the retailer replacing my 1800XT the above unfortunatly is speculation.

My other alternative is to just get cash, sell my mobo and buy an SLi Mobo and try to either get my hands on another GTO or GTX and flash my GTO to run them in SLi which is what I might have to do dependant on shop, last option is of course to keep what I have at the moment and use the cash (plus what I get for my Sandy 4000+)to buy an Opty 185 x2 that should go to at least 3.1Gig......hmmmmmmm decisions, decisions.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 24, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Well on advice here I am not going to go for the 2 x 1950XT's that requires a master so if it's the ATi Option I think I will go for the 2 x 1950Pro's, I can actually get 2 of the Gecube 1950pro 512MB FZ Supercooled silent turbo that stocks at 680 core and 1620 memory in the warrnty replacement deal, a link to the card is here, grateful for any thoughts, they will give me these two instead of the 1950XT's, (well under negotiation!)
> 
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-138-SP
> 
> ...



 FZ SUPERCOOLED TEC COOLING FTW!!!

It can go higher than max ATi Overdrive speeds (but its capped) and still remain cool, that is the choice... and 512MB!! You are going to get great scores of like 16k.

But why does the link show the Sapphire Ultimate?


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 24, 2007)

Sorry, wrong link, Overclockers is not where I am getting the warranty replacement, its just the only place I could find the card, the correct link is here:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-003-GC

The sapphire is a baby in comparison th this badboy!  here's a more close up pic of the monster:


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 25, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Sorry, wrong link, Overclockers is not where I am getting the warranty replacement, its just the only place I could find the card, the correct link is here:
> 
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-003-GC
> 
> The sapphire is a baby in comparison th this badboy!



... ... ...

WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR DAMMIT!!! GET IT


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 25, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> ... ... ...
> 
> WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR DAMMIT!!! GET IT



Lol, did an edit above with pic, cant get it until they will agree to one of them being a replacement for the 1800XT, I have even offered to pay the difference but they are dragging their feet, apparantly these cards are pretty rare and hard to come by so I am guessing becasue of that they wanna put their prices up.  If they wont deal and prices do go up, even with the money for the 1800XT I am not gonna fork out the xtra to get the whole package, they said they would let me know by Friday.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 25, 2007)

Zubasa... update your signature.


----------



## Zubasa (Jan 25, 2007)

Done.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 25, 2007)

Someone downsize this... this will be my new sig  its already 490x98 pixels


----------



## jms45 (Jan 25, 2007)

should be 13k now


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 25, 2007)

jms45 said:


> should be 13k now



thx


----------



## jms45 (Jan 25, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> thx



NP


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 25, 2007)

jms45 said:


> NP



In return, tell your club member to use the tribal designs UNDER the name tags, because its nearly impossible to see the writing.


----------



## jms45 (Jan 25, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> In return, tell your club member to use the tribal designs UNDER the name tags, because its nearly impossible to see the writing.



yeah i hear ya there, even after sharpening and brightening it up it's still a little hard to make out, must have been the way it was layered.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 25, 2007)

What thermal paste doest the AcceleroX2 come with preconfigured?


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 25, 2007)

Mine came with a little tube of crap, I put some AS5 on.....dont trust what I dont know, it may have been alright really but prefer to be safe.


----------



## HellasVagabond (Jan 25, 2007)

Guys have the X1950XT owners or any X1950 owners increased the Voltage on the card along with the OC ?


----------



## DOM (Jan 25, 2007)

HellasVagabond said:


> Guys have the X1950XT owners or any X1950 owners increased the Voltage on the card along with the OC ?



yes ive tryed it like this but cant oc the ram very much
http://forums.techpowerup.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5491&d=1168047408


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 25, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> yes ive tryed it like this but cant oc the ram very much
> http://forums.techpowerup.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5491&d=1168047408



A hint if I may, try dropping the MVDDQ to say 2.175, that often allows for a little more overclock on the memory if you are rasing the MVDDC, at worst it will give you a drop in temps....it always worked on my 1800XT and whatever card the principle remains the same, just dont get too carried away lowering it!

Providing you dont drop below 2.150 you will be fine.


----------



## DOM (Jan 25, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> A hint if I may, try dropping the MVDDQ to say 2.175, that often allows for a little more overclock on the memory if you are rasing the MVDDC, at worst it will give you a drop in temps....it always worked on my 1800XT and whatever card the principle remains the same, just dont get too carried away lowering it!
> 
> Providing you dont drop below 2.150 you will be fine.



what about the VDDCI ??


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 26, 2007)

Oh hey btw, how tall is the X1950XT's standard cooler? W1zzard said that it was 7cm tall... um is it just me or was it a typo?


----------



## boecke (Jan 26, 2007)

It's like 3cm tall.


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 26, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> what about the VDDCI ??



Leave it as it is.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 26, 2007)

Btw, to get a huuuuge performance gain in popular games like Company of Heroes, get the XG Warcat Drivers.


----------



## Apa (Jan 27, 2007)

Got myself a sweet little X1950XT 256MB Powercolor. Didn't think I'd motice any bigger difference by switching from a  X1800XT, but boy was I wrong :3 Let's see how many months this little baby will stay in this PC. I bet about 12 months exactly.

OCed only through CCC so far, too.. 662/936

It's cooler then my X1800XT thankfully (with stock cooler >_> X1800XT had a VF900-CU). The bad thing I have noticed tho is that this one can go as far as 90C in absolute full load.


----------



## JdPower (Jan 27, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> A hint if I may, try dropping the MVDDQ to say 2.175, that often allows for a little more overclock on the memory if you are rasing the MVDDC, at worst it will give you a drop in temps....it always worked on my 1800XT and whatever card the principle remains the same, just dont get too carried away lowering it!
> 
> Providing you dont drop below 2.150 you will be fine.



My MVDDC stock is @ 2.083V (I Have the X1950XTX 512mb)

? Is that safe or...?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 27, 2007)

^GDDR4 Voltages are lower than GDDR3 :shadedshu, those are normal voltages


----------



## JdPower (Jan 27, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> ^GDDR4 Voltages are lower than GDDR3 :shadedshu, those are normal voltages



Oh yea dur... hahaha


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 27, 2007)

I really wish 45nm GPUs existed, since they would put out so little heat.


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 27, 2007)

JdPower said:


> My MVDDC stock is @ 2.083V (I Have the X1950XTX 512mb)
> 
> ? Is that safe or...?



You can drop it to 2.00 at worst it will lower your temps, at best it will give you upto 30Mhz more on the memory but if not overclocking the card dont bother.

I got 900Mhz outta my 1800XT memory but I never could get it above 870 until I lowered MVDDQ, it also lowered my idle temps (because I raised GPU volts significantly) by 7-8C  

You just have to play around in small increments to get the right balance but if you lower too much you will get BSOD but to be extra safe make sure you disable "load alternative startup deamon" in ATI tool so when you reboot it resets and therfore no problems, when you get it right it's sweet and you can then enable startup again in ATI tool otherwise you may have difficulty recovering it on startup if it remains enabled......make sense?

If anyone is raising GPU/memory volts significantly I can recommend an 80MM fan blowing on the back of the PCB/card, I mounted one on my CPU heatsink, just put screws on the corner of the fan bracket/frame and they slide quite tightly into the fins of the CPU cooler, depending on the size of your CPU cooler the fan will be about 8-10CM away from the back of Gfx card, it helps with surface temps nicely and can also lower overall temps by a little.


----------



## Patrick Star (Jan 27, 2007)

first,hello,
i got a powercolor x1950xtx since two days.before i owned a x800xt pe agp which is not quiete bad and i miss the atitool.

first question:is it normal that ati overdrive show me a clockspeed of 500 instead of 650 in 2d/idle mode?

does it raise in 3d and how can i supervise that?

thx and regards


my card in my shuttle sn26


----------



## DOM (Jan 27, 2007)

Patrick Star said:


> first,hello,
> i got a powercolor x1950xtx since two days.before i owned a x800xt pe agp which is not quiete bad and i miss the atitool.
> 
> first question:is it normal that ati overdrive show me a clockspeed of 500 instead of 650 in 2d/idle mode?
> ...



u can use ATITool 0.26 is the latest 

and yes it shows its at 2D and it goes to 3D when its needed


----------



## Patrick Star (Jan 27, 2007)

i read that i doesnt support the x19xxxxxx cards?ok,i will try.thx


----------



## DOM (Jan 27, 2007)

Patrick Star said:


> i read that i doesnt support the x19xxxxxx cards?ok,i will try.thx



only the Pros I think, but the XT's and XTX's should work its works on my X1950XT


----------



## Patrick Star (Jan 27, 2007)

which driver is mostly redcomended?i tried diffrent driver,now i use the omega drivers.is there anyone who had compare the omega driver vs. the warcat driver,so i dont have to do it? 

my card needs to run best at bf2 and the original drivers work very poor.

ps,first i thought they send me a brick instead of a graficcard.rememder that i used x800 agp before


----------



## HellasVagabond (Jan 27, 2007)

The XG drivers are better than the standard ATI ones and almost the same with the Omega....Plus XG has x64 support while OMEGA doesnt...


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 27, 2007)

I beleive the Omega drivers are more focused on improving IQ, the Warcat are more cemtered on improving performance (speed).


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 28, 2007)

Yeh.... the warcat drivers gave my 9550 @ 520/280mhz (I flashed it to 360/250 stock, lol, it still runs cool at those stock clocks with AS5) a huuuuge boost in performance. No more stuttery gameplay and everything ran like a dream. Then when I got my X1950PRO the definition of "a dream" changed. I would not touch the omega drivers if you are using a low-end GPU because the IQ does drag down performance. Warcat as tatty said are for speed and perfromance, they re-write the AA method to be much much better than the standard ATI method. Same with the AF IQ, except its sort of less advanced as the Omega drivers. 

ATI Tool will not work for GPUs with the crossfire bridge interlink (just to make it sound cool).
Just use CCC now (Meanwhile, he dremels one of his PCI-E 4x slots in preperation to use his X1950PRO as a physics card). 

Btw, anyone with a crossfire setup in this club, try using one of the GPUs for physics and one for graphics, then do a 3DMark 06 benchmark.
What load temps do you guys get with your X1950PROs btw?


----------



## mikek75 (Jan 28, 2007)

42c load in games. BTW, can I join?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 28, 2007)

Read the rules of the club before joining.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 28, 2007)

Damn.... time to order a blower fan, when I get it, I'lll turn off the fan on my GPU because it will cause drag; yep, let the 45CFM blower fan do all the work.


----------



## Maju (Jan 28, 2007)

Hey Hey ! 

Just checked the first page of this thread and found my pic posted there.  Thanks tk!
Ego is such a wonderful thing. So sign me in for the club tk so I can use the sapphire sig legit.

I also notice that the price of the sapphire x1950xtx master is starting to drop significantly, and along with the ego comes desire......watch this space!


----------



## xnox202 (Jan 28, 2007)

Hmm. I have an Powercolor ATI Radeon X1950 PRO 'AGP'. Can I still join then? ~.~


----------



## mullered07 (Jan 28, 2007)

HIS x1950pro, count me in


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## tkpenalty (Jan 28, 2007)

Maju said:


> Hey Hey !
> 
> Just checked the first page of this thread and found my pic posted there.  Thanks tk!
> Ego is such a wonderful thing. So sign me in for the club tk so I can use the sapphire sig legit.
> ...



Ur reserved so yeh


----------



## xnox202 (Jan 28, 2007)




----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 28, 2007)

Did you even have an attempt at reading the first page? 



> *To join...*
> PM me, it isn't wise to ask in the thread as it causes confusion


----------



## mullered07 (Jan 28, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Did you even have an attempt at reading the first page?



my bad, i did read it, but got so caught up reading the rest of the posts just forgot


----------



## xnox202 (Jan 28, 2007)

Holy, how could I miss that. I came to first notice the "Conditions and Rules" instead. Sorry, I'm new as you know, uh around here.

Umm, see get what I mean? *points my post above*


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 28, 2007)

lol... too much info, time to migrate some of it >_>


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## tkpenalty (Jan 29, 2007)

*rofl...*

Check out the Nvidia Owners thread ... only one clubhouse per sub-forum thanks!
I ask again, what temps are you guys getting on your X1950s? Specifically X1950PROs becausse the benchmarks usually produce random results.


----------



## CBOT (Jan 29, 2007)

Hey i´am not in your Club but i say you my Temps .

Idle : 38c 
and 
58c under ATI-Tool ArtifactScan.
With my HIS RX1950PRO IceQ3 Turbo 640/1500 Stock Voltage.


----------



## mikek75 (Jan 29, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Check out the Nvidia Owners thread ... only one clubhouse per sub-forum thanks!
> I ask again, what temps are you guys getting on your X1950s? Specifically X1950PROs becausse the benchmarks usually produce random results.



Idle 35c Load 42c Sapphire X1950Pro@ 621/766 (Zalman VF900Cu + VRM Sinks)


----------



## anticlutch (Jan 29, 2007)

Idle : 42c
Load : 57c
Asus x1950 Pro with stock speeds (580 core/ 702mem) and stock cooler with AS5


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 30, 2007)

Hm... Thats about right then, I might need to apply some AS5 on my GPU... the blower fan will arrive in two weeks T_T.


----------



## boecke (Jan 30, 2007)

If I could get my CrossFire working i'd take some pictures otherwise, blah!
Screw AMD/ATI's Customer Support, they didn't even bother reading my message.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 30, 2007)

lol....


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 30, 2007)

boecke said:


> If I could get my CrossFire working i'd take some pictures otherwise, blah!
> Screw AMD/ATI's Customer Support, they didn't even bother reading my message.


----------



## xXDynamosXx (Jan 30, 2007)

Quick question to those using HIS 1950Xt Iceq3 Which power supply do you recommend, My power supply only offers 24A on 12v and my 3D gpu clocks never kick in im running at 500 / 594..  so i definitley need a more potent psu.. any sugestions guys? i hear the Hyper Type-r works good so any comments would be greatly apreciated


----------



## DOM (Jan 30, 2007)

xXDynamosXx said:


> Quick question to those using HIS 1950Xt Iceq3 Which power supply do you recommend, My power supply only offers 24A on 12v and my 3D gpu clocks never kick in im running at 500 / 594..  so i definitley need a more potent psu.. any sugestions guys? i hear the Hyper Type-r works good so any comments would be greatly apreciated



are you sure it's not going in to 3d mode?? cuz are you useing ATITool or just CCC or both ?


----------



## xXDynamosXx (Jan 30, 2007)

it Runs at the 500 / 594 clocks which people have said is the 2D clocks, the card is suppose to reach 650 / 1800 with overclocking and also if I overclock with Ati tool (CCC wont even let me overclock) to 600 / 900 (the highest it will even let me go before it crashes) it runs but as soon as I run a 3d type application I.E the Spinning 3D cube on ati tool the gfx card freezes and CCC reboots the gfx card and resets the clock to 500 / 594 people have told me that this is due to inadequate Ampeage to the gfx card

Edit: I tried ATI tool but uninstalled and CCC is just running, I also have the HIS iTurbo tool instaleld which doesnt even try to overclocking it (only good for adjusting fan speed)


----------



## DOM (Jan 30, 2007)

xXDynamosXx said:


> it Runs at the 500 / 594 clocks which people have said is the 2D clocks, the card is suppose to reach 650 / 1800 with overclocking and also if I overclock with Ati tool (CCC wont even let me overclock) to 600 / 900 (the highest it will even let me go before it crashes) it runs but as soon as I run a 3d type application I.E the Spinning 3D cube on ati tool the gfx card freezes and CCC reboots the gfx card and resets the clock to 500 / 594 people have told me that this is due to inadequate Ampeage to the gfx card
> 
> Edit: I tried ATI tool but uninstalled and CCC is just running, I also have the HIS iTurbo tool instaleld which doesnt even try to overclocking it (only good for adjusting fan speed)



well with ATITool you need to have this box checked look at pic , cuz when you open ATITool it would load with 3D speeds and 3D volts let me know if that works


----------



## xXDynamosXx (Jan 30, 2007)

When I run AtiTool at the top the Profile says Default 621/900 but the current is 499.50 / 594.00 if i Click load it will set the Clocks to 621/900 however if i then click the "Show 3D view" button everything freezes and I get a VPU error from CCC after my gfx card reboots

See atached images


----------



## DOM (Jan 30, 2007)

xXDynamosXx said:


> When I run AtiTool at the top the Profile says Default 621/900 but the current is 499.50 / 594.00 if i Click load it will set the Clocks to 621/900 however if i then click the "Show 3D view" button everything freezes and I get a VPU error from CCC after my gfx card reboots
> 
> See atached images



take a pic of you volts after you open atitool with speeds at 621/900


----------



## xXDynamosXx (Jan 30, 2007)

is this what your looking for?


also onthe main page my Draw goes from 2.5A to 5.5A.. seems a bit low for a card that requires 34A on 12V rail... but I dont know


----------



## DOM (Jan 30, 2007)

xXDynamosXx said:


> is this what your looking for?
> 
> 
> also onthe main page my Draw goes from 2.5A to 5.5A.. seems a bit low for a card that requires 34A on 12V rail... but I dont know



the draw goes up from when you start useing 3d things games/atitool fuzzy cube etc.

  yep your volts are to low this is what mines at at 3d


----------



## xXDynamosXx (Jan 31, 2007)

Interesting I can set the voltages to that of yours and it doesnt reset when I run 3D at 621/900 but it sytill seems unstable So is this a Powersupply issue than or not 

FYI the power supply im using does not have a dedicated 6pin PCI-E rail im using an adapter with a standard 4pin molex rail


----------



## RatusNatus (Jan 31, 2007)

Simple question 

Do you think the Sapphire X1950XTX has the very same cooler of the 1950XT 256MB?


----------



## xXDynamosXx (Jan 31, 2007)

Not sure but If I we're you i'd stay away from saphire all together, their Cards runs at a higher temp than that of HIS


----------



## DOM (Jan 31, 2007)

xXDynamosXx said:


> Interesting I can set the voltages to that of yours and it doesnt reset when I run 3D at 621/900 but it sytill seems unstable So is this a Powersupply issue than or not
> 
> FYI the power supply im using does not have a dedicated 6pin PCI-E rail im using an adapter with a standard 4pin molex rail



why do you think its unstable?  what is it doing that makes you think that?

and i cant tell you if the adapter is the prob. never used one before sorry


----------



## DOM (Jan 31, 2007)

RatusNatus said:


> Simple question
> 
> Do you think the Sapphire X1950XTX has the very same cooler of the 1950XT 256MB?



  no XT's have the same as the 1900's did


----------



## xXDynamosXx (Jan 31, 2007)

It atifacts for one and resuming fro mthe screensaver is very messed up makes the screen very artifacted for a breif moment.. so im not sure... those voltage levels are those stock or did you modify those on your own?

Also, When the voltage is turned up and im running the fuzzy cube thing at 621/900 its really jittery and not fluent and also the draw is at 27.5A whats your run at?


----------



## RatusNatus (Jan 31, 2007)

Thanks for the reply.

I'll take the Accelero anyway.


----------



## DOM (Jan 31, 2007)

xXDynamosXx said:


> It atifacts for one and resuming fro mthe screensaver is very messed up makes the screen very artifacted for a breif moment.. so im not sure... those voltage levels are those stock or did you modify those on your own?
> 
> Also, When the voltage is turned up and im running the fuzzy cube thing at 621/900 its really jittery and not fluent and also the draw is at 27.5A whats your run at?



the voltage are stock 3D volts,  and on draw I get 27.3A and 24.5A it changes back and forward

also when I run the fuzzy dice try not to have you pointer on anything that would bring up text, cuz mine starts to kind of skips when I would put it on atitool on the temps and the text would come out then it would start skiping

and the artifacts does it just happens when atitool open ?  try running some beanch marks and see if you get any artifacts like 3DMARK 05,06 for examples


----------



## xXDynamosXx (Jan 31, 2007)

I will try 3dmark05 as soon as it download here, however im pretty sure that this is a Inadequate power supply problem here


----------



## sym8olo (Jan 31, 2007)

Hi,
I have been reading the Sapphire forum and others and making occasional posts for some time now (since early Jan) I really hope someone out there can suggest something that I haven't read (and tried) on any of the many forums I have combed through looking for an answers. I've piled hours and hours into this card and I'm at the end of my teather. I have been waiting for the DFI street forum to re open, as I think I may have an incompatability, or as least there may be some advice here that I cant get elsewhere re motherboard compatability. So please be patient and read this carefully I know its alot of info but I dont want to have to repeat myself too much. Here's the story so far.

The problem. No POST except twice ever.

When I have had the card running, it works like a dream, and temperatures are well below anything that would cause concern.

I've used-
HIPER Type R 580wPSU - no post no fans, didnt even work with my geforce 6800gt. RMAd, and refunded.

Corsaire HX620W - Runs system with my old card fine, No post beep but all fans 100%, just a black screen.
Cleared Bios -nothing
Tried with no CD, DVD, Sound card, just one stick of ram and graphics - NO Post.
changed ram bank and module around, NO Post
changed leads to PSU around in every combo on every connector- nope

Played with Bios settings- Init Display First - tried every option - nothing
RMAd and refunded


Finally Liberty Enermax 620W and POST and played for 3-4 hours with 1950pro -no artifacts and delighted.
restarted several times no problem BUT powered off, powered on and ,,, no POST

Tried with no CD, DVD, Sound card, just one stick of ram and graphics - NO Post.
changed ram bank and module around, NO Post
changed leads to PSU around in every combo on every connector- nope

Played with Bios settings- Init Display First - tried every option - nothing

re-installed latest mobo bios and chipset drivers- nothing

Checked the heatsink is contacting the memory properly and it is.

RMA'd the card back to Overclockers. Who tested it (probably once) got it to post and run 3dmark and sent it back.

Installed the card as before (uninstalling my Nvidia card, using driver cleaner pro in safe mode as appropriate) nothing.
Powered off then on and CARD POSTS FINE! with all my ram and devices plugged in. I installed the drivers off the CD and had a fantastic 4 hours play loving it! Updated to the 7.1 catalyst and restarted and everything.

Powered off, powered on and - NO POST..
Tried about 50 times. no joy..

Submitted a support ticket to Sapphire asking whether the card requires you to manually set AGP drive strength. see below quote re what that is, but this is clutching at straws and I dont expect that to get an answer.-
"This BIOS feature will only be activated if you set the AGP Drive Strength BIOS feature to Manual. It determines the N transistor drive strength of the AGP bus.
The drive strength is represented by Hex values from 0 to F (0 to 15 in decimal). The higher the drive strength, the greater the compensation for the motherboard's impedance on the AGP bus.
In conjunction with AGP Drive Strength and AGP Drive Strength P Ctrl, this function is used to bypass AGP dynamic compensation in cases where the auto-compensation circuitry cannot provide adequate compensation. Please check with your graphics card manufacturer if your card requires the N transistor drive strength to be manually set."

I am so sick and tired of all this f-ing around but i cant get a refund and I would rather not loose the £140 on top of the phone bills and delivery costs for all the returns I've had to do.

Please help because this is a fantastic card and all I read are people having minor issues but then solving them or getting new and perfectly functional cards and LOVIng it.. I BEG you to help me as this is the last chance before I take a hammer to the card and despair.


----------



## Tatty_One (Feb 1, 2007)

Firstly could you go to "user CP" and post your full system specs there , it makes it easier for people not to have to read the post over and over.

You seem convinced it's the 1950Pro yet you have thrown so many other ingredients into the pot so that may well be uncertain, for example, system didnt work with Hyper 580 so you RMA'd it, you have tried the 6800 and no post etc, etc, as you have probably gathered it makes it so much more difficult to pin down when you put so many options in the hardware basket so to speak.

On the surface of it I would say that you could have a motherboard fault, bad bridge connection or something that intermittently is letting power thru to chips/controllers on the board or it could be a faulty mainboard power connector that occasional gives contact.  If you have tried the 6800 in there and it's not worked could even be a faulty PCI-E slot.

When you have cleared CMOS on the many attempts have you removed battery also?  Silly I know but I assume when you have "played with BIOS" you have Primary graphics set to PCI-E and not PCI?

With your specs up we can check motherboard and the rest so idea's might start coming in.


----------



## xXDynamosXx (Feb 1, 2007)

@ Dom 

I tried running 3dmark 05 and when i start the benchmarking the systems freezes and reboots


----------



## DOM (Feb 1, 2007)

xXDynamosXx said:


> @ Dom
> 
> I tried running 3dmark 05 and when i start the benchmarking the systems freezes and reboots



well can you try another PSU?  cuz you OC on your CPU is 100% stable right ?


----------



## xXDynamosXx (Feb 1, 2007)

yea my cpu is 100% stable never crashes the OS.. however i was running 3dmark05 on Vista now that im back on xp x64 im going to try it one more time


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 1, 2007)

Sorry guys who haven't been added... I got shaped and yeh T_T... also I'm too busy atm.

K... Dynamos, Vista will not allow 3DMark05 do some of the benchmarking because Vista thinks the procedures may involve "non premium content".


----------



## xXDynamosXx (Feb 1, 2007)

im installing MCE 2005 on a friends PC at the moment and I will be installnig 3dmark05 on my pc afterwards, i'll post the results after


----------



## sym8olo (Feb 1, 2007)

Hi Tatty, long time no see well. now you know why!! lol  the CPU Still runs nicely at 2400 normal volts thanking you kindly!  But obviously not when trying to install the new card (iust stock all attempts)! 
I've had my system spex in User CP for a while- doesn't it show ?  Well I've just changed my signature so it should follow my posts now.  In answer to your questions:
Yes I tried every PSU with my old setup and the HIper didnt work with it but the others worked fine.  
Yes I took the battery out when clearing the CMOS.
Whats next? or would you indeed now conclude its the motherboard fault?


----------



## Tatty_One (Feb 1, 2007)

sym8olo said:


> Hi Tatty, long time no see well. now you know why!! lol  the CPU Still runs nicely at 2400 normal volts thanking you kindly!  But obviously not when trying to install the new card (iust stock all attempts)!
> I've had my system spex in User CP for a while- doesn't it show ?  Well I've just changed my signature so it should follow my posts now.  In answer to your questions:
> Yes I tried every PSU with my old setup and the HIper didnt work with it but the others worked fine.
> Yes I took the battery out when clearing the CMOS.
> Whats next? or would you indeed now conclude its the motherboard fault?



Ohhh it's you!  I am starting to think it may be the motherboard, I went through some similar grief last summer, what you need to do is go thru all the variables so everything needs to go to stock, all timings and volts on "auto".  You then need to borrow a graphics card for half an hour and see if the system will boot, if it will, fine then its prob your card if not then go thru the process disconnecting periphials, using one stick of ram and if still no posts then its likely to be mainboard.


----------



## sym8olo (Feb 1, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Ohhh it's you!  I am starting to think it may be the motherboard, I went through some similar grief last summer, what you need to do is go thru all the variables so everything needs to go to stock, all timings and volts on "auto".  You then need to borrow a graphics card for half an hour and see if the system will boot, if it will, fine then its prob your card if not then go thru the process disconnecting periphials, using one stick of ram and if still no posts then its likely to be mainboard.



Yes its meeeee.   I've done that, I have my old card and it does post fine, as i say, theres no problem with the system as is, nor any ram module, I've benched and stressed everything during my overclocking exploits.  Now I have everything set to stock and I've gone through the process above and nada. 

EDIT: Just got off the phone with Overclockers and they say they probably wouldnt have powered off and then on again when testing, so I got them to issue me another RMA.  We will see if I send it or not, in the mene time any more suggestions would be appreciated.


----------



## Tatty_One (Feb 1, 2007)

Looks like rma time then I am afraid, ask for your money back and I'll let you have a brand new (warranty return) 1950XT or worse case 1800XT for cheaper 

You gotta watch them ATi cards tho, they can be a bit dodgy!


----------



## sym8olo (Feb 1, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Looks like rma time then I am afraid, ask for your money back and I'll let you have a brand new (warranty return) 1950XT or worse case 1800XT for cheaper
> 
> You gotta watch them ATi cards tho, they can be a bit dodgy!



AGP?


----------



## Tatty_One (Feb 1, 2007)

sym8olo said:


> AGP?



Ahhhhh forgot....sorry no.


----------



## Stikk (Feb 6, 2007)

*Power Issues*

Hey everybody!

sorry to be a pain, im sure this has been covered before, but i just got myself a PowerColor X1950PRO (AGP) and i went to install it last night only to find the box had some ridiculously high power requirements on it!! My PSU is pretty weak, 350W with 15A on the 12V rail and i kinda knew i needed a new one before i could use this card and 450W is not excessive but 30A?!?! Where the HELL am i gonna find a PSU that will give me 30A! The highest i can find (at a reasonable price) is 500W and 25A on the 12V rail.. Will this PSU drive my card or do i really need 30A? If so, where should i look for one cuz i live in Perth, Western Australia (the biggest small town in the world, for all of you who have never been here  ) and there are a few decent computer shops but i cant find a PSU that powerful! Also, i dont wanna end up spending as much as i spent on the card on a new PSU!

Please help! This is really annoying me!!

Thanks in advance
Ollie


----------



## anticlutch (Feb 6, 2007)

I'd suggest buying the highest rated power supply that you're willing to buy. Skimping on power supplies won't get you anywhere nice... I did it and my system is plagued with instability so I bought myself a 550w powersupply which will hopefully arrive tomorrow


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## Stikk (Feb 6, 2007)

Thanks anticlutch for you (very) fast reply! Im kind of concerned about the current rating, thats the only thing, because i have been looking on eBay, and like i said, the highest current rating i could find was 25A which, according to the box, wont run my card.. I dont do a whole lot of stuff with my computer, but i do have 3 HDDs and a DVD burner, so finding one with lots of connectors is pretty important for me too..

Do you have any recommendations for a good PSU that i could order from here?


----------



## anticlutch (Feb 6, 2007)

lol np with the fast reply (I don't have much to do today :| )

About the 30A needed... I seriously doubt that you'll need all 30A on that rail, because my system runs on less than that (although it is a bit unstable, it runs fine when I don't use/play graphically intensive programs). I'm sure that 25A *would* be fine, but just in case you might want to get a second opinion. 

I live in the U.S. so the only places that I buy from are Newegg and Fry's Electronics (a brick-and-mortar store), so I won't be able to help you out much with the buying aspect. If you do buy it from Ebay, I'd advise you to stick to new items (you never know what could have happened to that power supply), as well as buying name brand power supplies (i.e. Antec (I personally reccommend this company), Thermaltake, SeaSonic, etc.) 

Do you have a limit to how much you are willing to spend?


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## Namslas90 (Feb 6, 2007)

anticlutch said:


> lol np with the fast reply (I don't have much to do today :| )
> 
> About the 30A needed... I seriously doubt that you'll need all 30A on that rail, because my system runs on less than that (although it is a bit unstable, it runs fine when I don't use/play graphically intensive programs). I'm sure that 25A *would* be fine, but just in case you might want to get a second opinion.
> 
> Do you have a limit to how much you are willing to spend?



I'll agree with that 25 amp rail.  But keep in mind thats the lower end of power requirements for that card.  You may have problems with top end overclocking.  Other than that ATI recomends (if you call them, and get the right person) a 12v rail rating of 24 amps minimum.


----------



## Stikk (Feb 6, 2007)

Well, im not planning to do any overclocking, i was just gonna plug it in and use it, but its turning out to be an expensive little upgrade, so i might wanna go for the slightly bigger PSU since im spending the money anyway.. Most of the PSUs i can find, even the more expensive, higher wattage ones, seem to be no more than about 18A on the 12V rail.. I dunno why that is, but i really havent managed to find one with a current rating over 25A..

I have found a few with dual 12V rails, but im not really too sure what that means.. Does each rail need to be at least 30A or do they have to add up to 30A? Im kind of restricted to looking on eBay and online sites at the moment since the websites for the shops near me have like no information on them and im at work, so i cant go ask 

I found a whole bunch of stuff that i wanted to buy off newegg but for some reason they dont ship internationally! Seems odd to me, but yeah, they dont, so im kind of limited to what i can find on eBay, unfortunately...


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## anticlutch (Feb 6, 2007)

Hm... I'm assuming it has to be 30A for 1 rail but then again, the gauge of the wire would have to be massive in order to supply 30A... 

It's really a shame you don't live in the US... I just bought a Rosewill 550w power supply for about $70 (yes, I know some people might object to the brand, but the reviews were very good). 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Antec-550-Watt-...4QQihZ004QQcategoryZ44949QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Maybe that? The refurbished thing really worries me though (I'm a bit paranoid about refurbs  )


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## Namslas90 (Feb 6, 2007)

If you are using a PSU w/dual rails and one card; and the card needs more power ,it will pull 20% - 30% power from the unused rail to boost the used rail.  If your planning on getting a second card then get a better PSU.  Bad news is that most PSU's with the power and quality to run the newer cards are going to cost around $120 to $180 U.S.  The good thing is if you buy a higher quality PSU it will last through several upgrades.  Enermax, OCZ are good brands; I'm sure there are more.


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## anticlutch (Feb 6, 2007)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Antec-Power-Sup...6QQihZ006QQcategoryZ80173QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
It's a bit pricey but... all the rest only ship to the US and Canada :|

Just for fun but... 24A per rail for only $300 USD!!! haha 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...Sell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget


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## Stikk (Feb 6, 2007)

Well i have quite an old motherboard, you see, so there is no chance of me getting two cards, i only have one slot and its AGP 

Yeah, its annoying not living in the US, i wanted to buy a water cooling system from newegg but thats not gonna happen now  its annoying looking for stuff over here and not being able to find it.. Even if you do find it, its usually a lot more expensive than in the US. Oh well, i guess thats what you get for living in the middle of nowhere!

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/OMNI-SUPER-Q...ryZ80173QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This was the 500W PSU i was talking about.. Its a no-name brand so im cautious, but yeah, all the others dont really do anywhere near 30A and like you said, to actually deliver 30A without melting the cables, you'd be looking at 8 AWG OFC copper from my experience! I looked at that Antec PSU you posted the link to, anticlutch, but the shipping to australia is another 65 bucks on top of the price, so its pretty expensive!

anyway, let me know what you think of that one, im gonna keep having a look around for another one


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## Namslas90 (Feb 6, 2007)

anticlutch said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/Antec-Power-Sup...6QQihZ006QQcategoryZ80173QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> It's a bit pricey but... all the rest only ship to the US and Canada :|



Only has 19 Amp rail + (20-30%) = 22.8 amps. Kind of low.


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## Namslas90 (Feb 6, 2007)

Stikk said:


> Well i have quite an old motherboard, you see, so there is no chance of me getting two cards, i only have one slot and its AGP
> 
> Yeah, its annoying not living in the US, i wanted to buy a water cooling system from newegg but thats not gonna happen now  its annoying looking for stuff over here and not being able to find it.. Even if you do find it, its usually a lot more expensive than in the US. Oh well, i guess thats what you get for living in the middle of nowhere!
> 
> ...



Typed in "omni psu" @ google and got linked to people in Austrailia who say that PSU caused them problems.  IDK, maybe try again.


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## Namslas90 (Feb 6, 2007)

This site has some good PSU's.  Silverstone is OK

http://www.nintek.com.au/x/scripts/prodList.asp?idcategory=484


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## Stikk (Feb 6, 2007)

Yeah, im not liking the reviews im finding on the Omni PSUs.. Not that i expected too much, i mean, a 500W PSU for like 30 bucks is wishful thinking.. But still, would have been nice 

I dont really wanna spend more than about $100 on the PSU (AUD) cuz i already spend $360 on the damn card.. Any more than that on a PSU i may aswell get a whole new computer!


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## Namslas90 (Feb 6, 2007)

Don't feel bad, I bought A X1900XTX for $569.00 U.S. and then had to spend another $169.00 on a PSU to make it work!!  Well worth the money in my book, the Gateway computer I put it in runs like a Dream!! (See system specs <<<<)


----------



## Stikk (Feb 6, 2007)

yeah, i think spending a little more on the psu might be a good idea.. I want a quiet one, too, cuz im trying to shut my computer up.. It makes a hell of a lot of noise at the moment so im looking into making it quieter, but there is almost no airflow in my case at the moment, which is not helping, everything keeps overheating.. My 6600GT killed itself cuz it got too hot, now im stuck with a GeForce 2 64mb until i can get my X1950 PRO working... why do computers have to be so difficult?


----------



## Namslas90 (Feb 6, 2007)

Try and find a PSU w/dual fans.  Enermax makes some good quiet one's.  Find a way to install a front air intake fan, or maybe even a "blowhole" up top.  Airflow through the case can make a big difference in cooling,  By turning around my northbridge fan I cooled my GPU down 13' F.  It was pushing hot air off my CPU into the GPU.  Reversing the fan pulled cool air into the GPU and sent the hot air off the CPU out the back fan.


----------



## whc.demo (Feb 6, 2007)

I just got my Sapphire x1950pro 512mb AGP today, as a replacement for my x800xt to go in my antique rig that has a s478 P4 3.4E  

after i installed it i went and played c0d2 to check out the gfx and performance and my system switched off after around 15mins...

so i came to the conclusion that my psu couldnt cope, so i went and bought another psu with more amps on the 12v rails and its running like a dream so far    touch wood...

i also had to change the fan speeds as the default 41% at 70c seemed a bit low to me lol :S

anyway temps are pretty good 40ish idle & 61 load


the performance is great and im really impressed with it so far  

although i couldnt work out how to get hdr + aa in oblivion working?? i tried forcing aa in ccc and it didnt work :S

btw im using the drivers that were bundled with the card and havnt tried oc yet

wewt x1950pro 

edit: after playing for many hours without any problems i started up ghost recon advanced warfighter and about 45 mins later started to get artifacts all over the ground   oh noes..


----------



## Stikk (Feb 7, 2007)

Hey all!

Im back again.. whc.demo, what kind of PSU did you end up buying? How many amps on the 12V rail? Im having real trouble with finding a PSU to handle this monster, Im also trying to understand how its possible to send 30A of current down those tiny little wires!! I cant believe that any PSU will put out that much current, its insane, and dangerous!!

I found this PSU:

http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Power/TR2power/w0101102/w0101102.asp

It looks ok, 550W, dual 12V rails, but working on Namslas90's estimation of 20-30% power from the other rail, this PSU can do like 19.2A, max.. This seems awfully "low" for a 550W PSU from Thermaltake.. If this half kilowatt PSU cant run this card, i dont know what will!! What do you guys reckon? Will this PSU do it?

Thanks
Ollie


----------



## anticlutch (Feb 7, 2007)

Well I've just installed my 550w Rosewill psu that has 17/18A on the rail and it's doing fine (much more stable than before). I'm sure that you'll be able to run it on the Thermaltake psu without any problems... and I'd suggest giving up looking for a psu that has 30A per rail... if you think about it, it's not possible unless the wires are huge (bigger wires = more cost for the manufacturer = they probably wouldn't make one with 30A ).


----------



## Stikk (Feb 7, 2007)

Ok, did a little more digging and its a little more expensive, but check out what i found...

http://www.ultraproducts.com/product_details.php?cPath=37&pPath=157&productID=160

Apparently has 34A on the 12V rail, which meets ATI's ridiculous claims.. It only has one rail though, i dunno if i should get that one or a dual rail one!! This is all so confusing, why cant they all just do the same thing? 

Sorry to go on about the PSU issue, guys, but i dont wanna end up spending a whole load of money on a new PSU only to find it doesnt run my new, very expensive, card!

Ollie


----------



## xnox202 (Feb 7, 2007)

I don't know if this helps, but I'm running my PC X1950 AGP with Enermax Liberty 500W version and it runs fine so far. 32A on both rails total. Haven't got any feeling of 'lack-of-power' or getting weird lags under load. See my specs for details.

ATI just probarbly recommend such numbers maybe for a headroom for some little upgrades we might do, like extra hard disk and such?


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## Namslas90 (Feb 7, 2007)

anticlutch said:


> Well I've just installed my 550w Rosewill psu that has 17/18A on the rail and it's doing fine (much more stable than before). I'm sure that you'll be able to run it on the Thermaltake psu without any problems... and I'd suggest giving up looking for a psu that has 30A per rail... if you think about it, it's not possible unless the wires are huge (bigger wires = more cost for the manufacturer = they probably wouldn't make one with 30A ).



They do make them, and the wires are a little thicker gage.  The only problem is they cost more, and are not readily available in Austrailia.  Enermax is a good brand, the 600watt and ^  Noise Taker II's meet requirements, as do the liberty and Galaxy series.


----------



## anticlutch (Feb 7, 2007)

Namslas90 said:


> They do make them, and the wires are a little thicker gage.  The oinly problem is they cost more, and are not readily available in Austrailia.  Enermax is a good brand, the 600watt and ^  Noise Taker II's meet requirements, as do the liberty and Galaxy series.



I stand corrected 
If only Newegg delivered worldwide people around the world would be so much happier. :|


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## Namslas90 (Feb 7, 2007)

Stikk said:


> Ok, did a little more digging and its a little more expensive, but check out what i found...
> 
> http://www.ultraproducts.com/product_details.php?cPath=37&pPath=157&productID=160
> 
> ...



It look like it's going to take a while for suppliers in your area to "catch-up" with the available technology.  That kind of sucks, but what are you going to do, either wait or pay the shipping from the states or UK; if you can find somebody willing to ship it!


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## Stikk (Feb 7, 2007)

Thanke everyone for your replies and help! I have narrowed it down to two PSUs that i like, they're not THAT expensive, they're prolly gonna be around $150 AUD each plus shipping from places within the country, but i was wondering if yuo guys could gimme a recommendation on which one i should get.. here's the first one:

http://www.pcmods.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=328_30_359&products_id=29
It's an Ultra X-Connect 500W. It has a single +12V Rail with 34A, apparently..

The second one is...

http://www.pcmods.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=328_30_360&products_id=35
Again, its an Ultra, but it's an X-Finity and it's 600W. Effectively same price, but its got dual rails with 20A and 18A on the +12V rails..
http://www.ultraproducts.com/product_details.php?cPath=52&pPath=383&productID=388

Im pretty sure thats the same PSU in those two links above, one is manufacturer, the other is retailer.. The one i REALLY like is this one:

http://www.ultraproducts.com/product_details.php?cPath=52&pPath=383&productID=467

37A on the 12V rail but i cant seem to find an aussie retailer and shipping is extortionate! 

Let me know what you guys reckon

Thanks
Ollie


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## Namslas90 (Feb 7, 2007)

I would go with the forth on your list, this gives you room to add another card or for future upgrades.
http://www.ultraproducts.com/product...roductID=4 67


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## xnox202 (Feb 7, 2007)

Now I wonder, before you choose anything.. How the 3 of the chosen psu's gonna perform? I might note that bigger numbers always not the better choice.


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## Stikk (Feb 7, 2007)

Yeah, i like that one too, but it might be difficult to get hold of.. I dont think adding another card is gonna be an issue, but having said that, im not too sure an entire computer upgrade might be out of the question in the nearish future.. If i could find that X-Finity 2G here in aus, i'd most probably buy it, but i cant, so im a little bit stuck.. Damn newegg, i why dont that do international shipping?!


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## Namslas90 (Feb 7, 2007)

xnox202 said:


> Now I wonder, before you choose anything.. How the 3 of the chosen psu's gonna perform? I might note that bigger numbers always not the better choice.



Good question, but not that big an issue, PSU's are PSU's.  A more important question is Quality and longevity.  Ultra's are not bad, ckeck this out for more information
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108088


----------



## xnox202 (Feb 7, 2007)

Namslas90 said:


> Good question, but not that big an issue, PSU's are PSU's.  A more important question is Quality and longevity.  Ultra's are not bad, ckeck this out for more information
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108088


Hey that's a good link there! I'm reading it now.


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## whc.demo (Feb 7, 2007)

Stikk said:


> Hey all!
> 
> Im back again.. whc.demo, what kind of PSU did you end up buying? How many amps on the 12V rail? Ollie




i got a coolermaster 550w with 20a and 18a on the 12v rails for $79 AUD from MSY, pc runs perfectly now, for a cheap psu these things r good quality. it powers my x1950pro ,2hdd's ,dvd drive and 3.4prescott without a hitch.

i think the recommended 30a by ATI is for a crossfire set up, sif this card needs 30a    30a x 12v = 360w for card :O
so dont go too overboard trying to find a 30+amp psu! 

anything with 2 12v rails with 15a or more on each should be plenty unless u have 16 hdd's..
if only 1 12 rail maybe something above the 22a mark

after reading some reviews a single x1950pro uses around 10 amps and the actuall wattage it uses isnt much more than a x800xt/pe


----------



## Namslas90 (Feb 7, 2007)

whc.demo said:


> i got a coolermaster 550w with 20a and 18a on the 12v rails for $79 AUD from MSY, pc runs perfectly now, for a cheap psu these things r good quality. it powers my x1950pro ,2hdd's ,dvd drive and 3.4prescott without a hitch.
> 
> i think the recommended 30a by ATI is for a crossfire set up, sif this card needs 30a    30a x 12v = 360w for card :O
> so dont go too overboard trying to find a 30+amp psu!
> ...



Depending on the computer, 22 amps will work, most machines 24 amp minimum.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 7, 2007)

I'm back from the dead! Dammit got shaped..

10amps is seriously too low. The X1950PRO Will consume around 22~23 amps, I would like to know what you had this morning because 10amps = instability/something broken, we are talking about combined amperage. Your coolermaster 550W will do fine without a hitch because its more than 20 amps when combined.

Considering the price difference between the shiny iGreen 600W and the model you purchased, it would have been wiser to buy the iGreen 500W, even though its rated at a lower wattage it can run at 500W+ without any problems, the 600W version can go higher than the rated specification. Or, something like a TopPower, those are great too, with their transparent, mirror surfaces.

Hey guys, is it just me or is it that generic companies have caught the "Honeycomb + 120mm fan = good PSU" disease? I've been seeing lately matte/mirror surfaced generic PSUs with honeycomb grilles as well as the 120mm fan unit.

Example, Omni 550W (550W = number or goodness or number of death), does not state Wattage output and etc, has black matte paint, honeycomb grille and 120mm fan, as well as.... wait for it.....

EPS 8 PIN!!! 

After studying the inner components, the EPS 8 Pin looked like a joke as the heatsinks were tiny and the PSU felt rather light. I was given a free sample and tested the PSU out, with my motherboard requiring a EPS 8 pin I thought it was good to give it a go. Next thing I knew my PC wouldnt even boot up. Second try it did but froze when I started ragnarok online. I think thats like a great feature but not many low-end low-power consumption systems will have EPS. 

Apart from that I tried running it seperately just for the GPU and it magically failed! Who said that the X1950PRO only takes 10amps now eh? 

Anyone tried running a physics setup with their X1950s? 

EDIT: 1000 posts


----------



## Tatty_One (Feb 7, 2007)

Stikk said:


> Hey all!
> 
> Im back again.. whc.demo, what kind of PSU did you end up buying? How many amps on the 12V rail? Im having real trouble with finding a PSU to handle this monster, Im also trying to understand how its possible to send 30A of current down those tiny little wires!! I cant believe that any PSU will put out that much current, its insane, and dangerous!!
> 
> ...



When it refers to a 30A requirement it is talking about total output not necessarily on a single rail, the card manufacturer takes into account system draw from other standard system peripherals, having said that my old 1800XT drew 13A at idle (overclocked) according to ATi tool so must have been hitting around 20A at full load, if in doubt get a good high rated single rail, I say that because  with a dual or tri rail PSU if the card pulls the max from one rail it is limited on how much it can draw from a second one, and TBH in the cheaper PSU's it prob wont be able to draw anything from an additional rail so if that second rail is say only drawing 12A for the system/CPU and it's a 19 Amper you are wasting the 7A, with higher power drawing cards IMO you may be better with the single rail as all amperage is available for the draw.


----------



## whc.demo (Feb 7, 2007)

yer i totally agree with you, i only bought the cheaper cooler master psu to get me out of trouble because i had just spent my money on the card, i will be getting a better psu in the near future..

im just curious to know though if the vid card is drawing ~23a then doesnt that equal 276w just for the card alone!! i dont think so  



that sounds like a bit much to me, perhaps in a crossfire set up maybe..


----------



## SPHERE (Feb 7, 2007)

whc.demo said:


> yer i totally agree with you, i only bought the cheaper cooler master psu to get me out of trouble because i had just spent my money on the card, i will be getting a better psu in the near future..
> 
> im just curious to know though if the vid card is drawing ~23a then doesnt that equal 276w just for the card alone!! i dont think so
> 
> ...


 in ati tool (if thats the amp reading your refering to) the amps displayed are for the core voltage i think


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 8, 2007)

The X1950PRO doesn't even support voltage monitoring! Guys the Coolermaster 550W will do perfectly fine, it will run without a hitch indefinately. However, some companies like antec have been making shoddy PSUs


----------



## ex_reven (Feb 8, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> The X1950PRO doesn't even support voltage monitoring! Guys the Coolermaster 550W will do perfectly fine, it will run without a hitch indefinately. However, some companies like antec have been making shoddy PSUs



i have a truepower 2.0 and a smartpower 2.0, one 480 watter and another 500watter
no problems as of yet. I dont think its shoddiness on their part, maybe their product quality control sucks, who knows...

edit - ive got a x1950 pro and im not even in your club lol...what a travesty


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 8, 2007)

You havent joined yet reven! PM TK


----------



## erocker (Feb 8, 2007)

*My rig...*


----------



## Stikk (Feb 8, 2007)

Hey all!

Thanks for all your replies, they have been very informative.. I wish they'd put this info on the box so idiots like me dont have to go looking for smart ppl to tell them whats going on  On the subject of PSU's again (haha, im annoying, i know), i found one that i like the look of, but im worried it might just be all flashy and pretty and not really any good.. I say i like the look of it, by that i mean i like the specs, im not really bothered by asthetics, it will be inside my case anyway. Here it is:

http://www.gamedude.com.au/prod_show.php?art_no=psXGvortec600

Its a 600W PSU with a whopping 37A on the 12V rail! I read a few reviews on it and the only major complaint i could find was that it had fairly small heatsinks.. Not sure if thats really a big deal, but im sure it would be an improvement over my stock 350W PSU that i have rite now! I'm just wondering, does anyone have any personal (or second hand) experience with this PSU? It's an XG Vortec 600W.

I havent really done anything with my computer since i got it, lol, looking at some of your computers they look rather impressive! My computer just looks like a normal computer, this is the first upgrade i have done to it since i bought it.. I wanna get more RAM, maybe, but i dont know how to find out what kind i need! Anyone know about that?

Once i have my card installed, i'll take some photos and post them on here, since you guys have been an integral part of me getting the card working  At the moment, it's sitting in its box on the shelf in my room, mocking me.. Its so depressing, i just wanna plug it in and see it work! 

Ollie


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 9, 2007)

Stikk said:


> Hey all!
> 
> Thanks for all your replies, they have been very informative.. I wish they'd put this info on the box so idiots like me dont have to go looking for smart ppl to tell them whats going on  On the subject of PSU's again (haha, im annoying, i know), i found one that i like the look of, but im worried it might just be all flashy and pretty and not really any good.. I say i like the look of it, by that i mean i like the specs, im not really bothered by asthetics, it will be inside my case anyway. Here it is:
> 
> ...



>_>... Yeah its _good_ but isn't very reliable, I would say thats some extreme (no pun intended) advertising. It has huge rail amperages but I have doubts about its stability, since you live in Australia and the climate is getting HOT. 

Its cheap because it doesnt have:
-Native support for EPS 8 Pin
-PCI-E Connector; no dedicated rails for it, you will find that the PSU is stressed more.

If I were you I would get what I got; Can output more than 600W (huuuge heatsinks) and has almost too many connectors. Is shiny as hell and is not a fingerprint magnet (the occasional touch can mean death on normal "shiny" PSUs).

12.4 Volts 

To ex-reven: Your 480W Truepower will do better than your 500W.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 9, 2007)

erocker said:


>



Cable management plox.


----------



## erocker (Feb 9, 2007)

I know, I know, I just got the PSU and it's an Antec 900 the cable management sux.


----------



## ex_reven (Feb 9, 2007)

> To ex-reven: Your 480W Truepower will do better than your 500W.



Yeah but theres a heap less cables ...


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 9, 2007)

Wait a minute... thats unavoidable clutter.


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 9, 2007)

Hi guys~
Today I went out for an Accelero X2 but its out of stock. 
So I get myself a Zalman VF-900Cu instead.
Not the card runs at 38C idle and 51C full load.


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 9, 2007)

Hi guys,

New clubhouse member ere  

Not the best pic, but you can see her there!

Not clocked to the max yet, as cant get anything but ccc to oc it!


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 9, 2007)

Hey nice sig, for your sig, add ATI Radeon X1950 Clubhouse and your name to it. lol.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 9, 2007)

Zubasa said:


> Hi guys~
> Today I went out for an Accelero X2 but its out of stock.
> So I get myself a Zalman VF-900Cu instead.
> Not the card runs at 38C idle and 51C full load.



Its been confirmed, same temps >_>. But I would say your RAM modules are getting heated (that just proves that AcceleroX2 is more popular than VF900CU though).


----------



## Tatty_One (Feb 9, 2007)

I have an Accelero lying around doing nothing since I warranty returned my 1800XT.


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 10, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Its been confirmed, same temps >_>. But I would say your RAM modules are getting heated (that just proves that AcceleroX2 is more popular than VF900CU though).


Well at the very lease it is 100 times better than the stock cooler
I don't really see the ram are getting near as hot as the core, actually.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 10, 2007)

Time to make a Zalman signature.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 10, 2007)

erocker said:


> Ok.  Here are some better pictures with some updated cable manglement.



Hey man read the rules of the club, if you haven't realised you arent in yet. 

Its marginally better but not much, i would say it would be better to move the 4pin 12V connector UNDER the motherboard tray then from the top of the tray, going down. 

See this is what I hate about reversed PSU cases without the lower drive bays.. .clutter D=.

UPDATE OF RULES:

DO NOT USE THE SIGNATURE UNLESS YOU HAVE BEEN ACCEPTED INTO THE CLUB VIA A PM


----------



## erocker (Feb 10, 2007)

Frankly, I think that "clubs" are kind of rediculous and really not nessecarry.  I just like my card.  I'm going to go use it now. L8r.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 10, 2007)

um whatever


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 10, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Hey man read the rules of the club, if you haven't realised you arent in yet.
> 
> Its marginally better but not much, i would say it would be better to move the 4pin 12V connector UNDER the motherboard tray then from the top of the tray, going down.
> 
> ...



dont be a wanker m8 

oh and x1900xtx pwns joo all


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 10, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> dont be a wanker m8
> 
> oh and x1900xtx pwns joo all


Well, the X1950XTX will slightly pawn your X1900XTX


----------



## AshenSugar (Feb 10, 2007)

hehe i can get 700 range on core, still testing for max ram clocks tho


----------



## Tatty_One (Feb 10, 2007)

Well the 1900 this or that is irrelivent, there are more than one NVida cards out there that Own XTX's at the moment, it's more about what you need and what you are happy with, when it turns into being "Mine is better than his" then some really rich guy who works for NASA will just own us all.


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 10, 2007)

As this is the X1950 clubhouse and not the X1900 clubhouse, whatever you are gunning for is quite irrelativant


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## Tatty_One (Feb 10, 2007)

Alcpone said:


> As this is the X1950 clubhouse and not the X1900 clubhouse, whatever you are gunning for is quite irrelativant



I was not  "gunning for anything" (if you were reffering to me and not Ashen?) meerly pointing out that "tit for tat" who's card is faster is irrelivant, there is always a faster card around the corner, unless of course you like playing that game....who has the best whatever............


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 10, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> I was not  "gunning for anything" (if you were reffering to me and not Ashen?) meerly pointing out that "tit for tat" who's card is faster is irrelivant, there is always a faster card around the corner, unless of course you like playing that game....who has the best whatever............



I wasnt talking about you tatty lol


----------



## Tatty_One (Feb 10, 2007)

Alcpone said:


> I wasnt talking about you tatty lol


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## tkpenalty (Feb 10, 2007)

X1950XTX > X1900XTX, nuff said. 

Omg.. I see a bloody tosser outside (slang for a guy who doesn't put the rubbish in the bin, not a wanker). 

*Comes back*

How do I get the Powercolor X1950PRO Extreme's new AcceleroX2 VRM unit? I tried email but its taking a while. Btw, the VRMs don't get very hot though.


----------



## erocker (Feb 11, 2007)

Tk sorry I was bein' a bitXX , my cat died.  Anyways, I'm gonna start taking a freakin drill to my lame Antec 900 case.  The motherboard tray has 3 screws in the back on one side and a few interlocking hinges on the other.  Those great people at Antec however, decided to rivet the bottom.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 11, 2007)

erocker said:


> Tk sorry I was bein' a bitXX , my cat died.  Anyways, I'm gonna start taking a freakin drill to my lame Antec 900 case.  The motherboard tray has 3 screws in the back on one side and a few interlocking hinges on the other.  Those great people at Antec however, decided to rivet the bottom.



D=... Um buy a new case and use the antec 900 as a coffin (you must be rich).
I don't understand why antec would rivet their cases >_>.

I don't like cases that don't have a lot of space between the motherboard and the drive bays, antec 900 is one of them unfortuneately. I like the lian li "Seperate compartment" type.


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 11, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> D=... Um buy a new case and use the antec 900 as a coffin (you must be rich).
> I don't understand why antec would rivet their cases >_>.
> 
> I don't like cases that don't have a lot of space between the motherboard and the drive bays, antec 900 is one of them unfortuneately. I like the lian li "Seperate compartment" type.


And I can get a Lian Li easily, since the factories are located in next door~


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 11, 2007)

Diu lei lo mou! Deng go fai, ju gum kun!!!!! Nuff said with the Kanto....

So... Zubasa sorry to say this but, the VF900 CU isn't better than the AcceleroX2. Does anyone know how to control the fan speed on the X1950PRO? The so called "fan speed control" isn't working, I turned the fan on 0% and...*Sneezes* it kept going. Apparently, it's following the normal PVM. Not at 100%. 

Lian Li's are so expensive BUT I WANT ONE, I was honestly thinking about getting a crappy Presler Pentium D + X1600PRO 128mb and then with that premium... a lian...li...case T_T.


----------



## blade33 (Feb 11, 2007)

*should i change the stock fan on 1950XTX!*

should i change the stock fan on 1950XTX!
Too Thermalright HR-03 VGA Heatsink or Zalman VF900-Cu LED (Copper) Dual Heatpipe
ITs new system i got from scorptec.com.au i can put together except not sure how to optimize 
DDR2 ram to get best performance.


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 11, 2007)

blade33 said:


> should i change the stock fan on 1950XTX!
> Too Thermalright HR-03 VGA Heatsink or Zalman VF900-Cu LED (Copper) Dual Heatpipe
> ITs new system i got from scorptec.com.au i can put together except not sure how to optimize
> DDR2 ram to get best performance.



If you want to oc the card then yes I would! All depends on your temps to start with! When running clocked to max and it is in high 60/70's then change it!

Raise your clock on cpu, this will bring your fsb up with it, try and keep the ram 1:1, alsways checking temps as you go and stability!


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 11, 2007)

blade33 said:


> should i change the stock fan on 1950XTX!
> Too Thermalright HR-03 VGA Heatsink or Zalman VF900-Cu LED (Copper) Dual Heatpipe
> ITs new system i got from scorptec.com.au i can put together except not sure how to optimize
> DDR2 ram to get best performance.


Is your card over heating at all?
That cooler on the X1950XTX is one of the best stock coolers out there.


----------



## Makaveli (Feb 11, 2007)

i'm running my sapphire x1950 on a Enermax Noise Taker 420Watt. no issues what so ever, this psu has dual 12v so I believe its 29-30a total. And with all the junk I have in my system I was kinda worried but no problems at all. I do need to replace the stock cooler tho, i've read the whole thread. Still not sure which is the better cooling route. Is the Ac X2 compatible with this card, or is the Zalman setup a better solution. Also pretty sure I heard they were releasing a revised X2 for the Pro?


----------



## erocker (Feb 11, 2007)

Should I put some AS5 on my HIS IceQ3 x1950 or leave it?  I'm just not sure what HIS uses.


----------



## erocker (Feb 11, 2007)

Makaveli said:


> i'm running my sapphire x1950 on a Enermax Noise Taker 420Watt. no issues what so ever, this psu has dual 12v so I believe its 29-30a total. And with all the junk I have in my system I was kinda worried but no problems at all. I do need to replace the stock cooler tho, i've read the whole thread. Still not sure which is the better cooling route. Is the Ac X2 compatible with this card, or is the Zalman setup a better solution. Also pretty sure I heard they were releasing a revised X2 for the Pro?



I've heard good arguments for both.  From what I hear the X2 does a little better job cooling thant the Zalman except it blows the hot air on the mobo.


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 11, 2007)

erocker said:


> Should I put some AS5 on my HIS IceQ3 x1950 or leave it?  I'm just not sure what HIS uses.



Whats your temps? I doubt they would use crap! But as5 is the best ive used.


----------



## erocker (Feb 11, 2007)

my temps are 34-36 idle and 45-50 under load which isn't bad.  I would use AS5 immediately, the only thing I'm worried about is that the thermal pads on the memory might lose some of thier effectiveness if I take the cooler off.


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 11, 2007)

erocker said:


> my temps are 34-36 idle and 45-50 under load which isn't bad.  I would use AS5 immediately, the only thing I'm worried about is that the thermal pads on the memory might lose some of thier effectiveness if I take the cooler off.



I would just stick with what youve got, that aint a temp issue u got there, the effectiveness wouldnt be effected at all I dont wreckon, the pads are stuck onto the cooler on my old cooler that I got with mine and not stuck to the modules themselves!


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 12, 2007)

erocker said:


> my temps are 34-36 idle and 45-50 under load which isn't bad.  I would use AS5 immediately, the only thing I'm worried about is that the thermal pads on the memory might lose some of thier effectiveness if I take the cooler off.



Wow, that is cool (no pun intended). I get higher temperatures... 
So thats some mixed results... >_>.


----------



## Chewy (Feb 12, 2007)

humm I hear the saphire 1950xt`s cooler is loud... is that the same case with ati`s 1950xtx stock cooler? gtg


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 12, 2007)

Chewy said:


> humm I hear the saphire 1950xt`s cooler is loud... is that the same case with ati`s 1950xtx stock cooler? gtg


The Sapphire X1950XT abd XTX coolers are both reference coolers.

The X1950XT cooler is a bit noisy, it is the old X1900XT/XTX cooler.






The X1950XTX has the new copper cooler that is similar to the ICEQ3. (It is one of the best reference cooler)


----------



## new_rez (Feb 12, 2007)

Here's my card. Its not actually in UV setup i just have my massive Meter long UV tube next to my case.

HIS ATI
X1950 pro - Turbo edition
256 GDDR3 RAM
Stock speeds
Not in crossfire

Heres a pic





Thanks
Harry


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 13, 2007)

Yep, the X1950XT is using the last-generation of dual slot coolers; ones without heatipies and a poor fan design, blowing air in rather than out, dual slot first appeared on the FX5800 series. Its just a huuuuge copper/aluminium contrapment with a fan to blow air in. 

The X1950XTX cooler is virtually a red ICEQIII, props to ATI for making such a great stock cooler that won't need to be replaced unless you go for water cooling. Looks damn fine as welll!


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 13, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Yep, the X1950XT is using the last-generation of dual slot coolers; ones without heatipies and a poor fan design, blowing air in rather than out, dual slot first appeared on the FX5800 series. Its just a huuuuge copper/aluminium contrapment with a fan to blow air in.
> 
> The X1950XTX cooler is virtually a red ICEQIII, props to ATI for making such a great stock cooler that won't need to be replaced unless you go for water cooling. Looks damn fine as welll!


Woot!
The old cooler actually sucks air in? 
It is the one on the X850XT?


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 13, 2007)

Zubasa said:


> Woot!
> The old cooler actually sucks air in?
> It is the one on the X850XT?



Yes, basically a ripoff of the FX5800... except its inefficient as hell!.


----------



## Stikk (Feb 14, 2007)

hey all!

Im back again.. Remember me? I was the one complaining about PSUs? well, i havent bought a new PSU yet, but thats cuz im waiting till payday (25th) to buy one.. Hows everybody doin? I have another question which is not specifically about my X1950PRO but is kind of about video cards so i'll just ask it here if thats ok? If its not ok, feel to tell me off 

I've just got me a new plasma that im hooking my computer up to. Well, its not new, we did get a new one, but basically im getting the old 42" and i wanna hook it up so i can watch videos and stuff on it. I already have my 6600GT hooked up at the moment (until i have the new PSU) and it's plugged in via S-video. I was just wondering, in order to get the best out of my new(ish) TV, what output should i plug into it? I have the S-video working at the moment, but adjusting the resolution and all that stuff on my computer makes no difference to the screen. When i put it to it's native resolution (852x480) it says its an invalid resolution! Then when i do another widescreen res, it stretches 16:9 videos and keeops the black bars on them  If i do a resolution like 1024x768 (4:3) it does the same thing! Its really annoying!

My question is this: given the res of the tv is quite low, should i sitck with S-video or should i go with VGA? If i do stick with S-video, how do i make it do widescreen properly without it looking like it's a 4:3 picture stretched?

Thanks
Ollie


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 14, 2007)

...42'' Screen... HOLY CRAP. Use DVI to connect the video. The X1950PRO would probably do bettter.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 14, 2007)

Anyone got any great ideas on fixing up the fan speed to 100%, 100% of the time?


----------



## Tatty_One (Feb 14, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Anyone got any great ideas on fixing up the fan speed to 100%, 100% of the time?



Yes modify your BIOS and re-flash, I can help!


----------



## Tatty_One (Feb 14, 2007)

Stikk said:


> hey all!
> 
> Im back again.. Remember me? I was the one complaining about PSUs? well, i havent bought a new PSU yet, but thats cuz im waiting till payday (25th) to buy one.. Hows everybody doin? I have another question which is not specifically about my X1950PRO but is kind of about video cards so i'll just ask it here if thats ok? If its not ok, feel to tell me off
> 
> ...



What is your TV's max supported resolution? surely it's gotta be more than 1024x 1024 at 42 inches and what input apart from SVideo does the TV have and what output the 6600GT??


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 14, 2007)

*Swears in kanto* Wtf man... why the hell does it give this "Adaptor non existent (or something) ERROR"?

I used Ketxxx's bios.


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 14, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> *Swears in kanto* Wtf man... why the hell does it give this "Adaptor non existent (or something) ERROR"?
> 
> I used Ketxxx's bios.



Ohh dear, I was abit wary about flashing to ketxxx new fangled bios, as he aint even got his card yet to try it himself!

Nothing against the guy, just would like him to alpha test it first


----------



## Tatty_One (Feb 14, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> *Swears in kanto* Wtf man... why the hell does it give this "Adaptor non existent (or something) ERROR"?
> 
> I used Ketxxx's bios.



Different manufacturers often have different BIOS settings/anomolies, I can vouch for Ket's knowledge and experience in video BIOS's but there is obviously a setting in your stock BIOS that is different from either the "generic" or Ket's, either way a re-flash will be required, I trust you did save the origional?


----------



## niko084 (Feb 14, 2007)

How bad is the stock cooler on the Sapphire x1950XT? 
I'm thinking about getting one, I wont overclock it at all...

I'm not too worried about loud, I just don't want the thing shooting up 80c...
I have good air flow and will have better with my case as well.


----------



## Stikk (Feb 15, 2007)

The TV ius quite old.. The native resolution is 852x480 but when i plug my set top box in, it says it's displaying 1920x1080 so i assume it supports that resolution. In the manual, it reckons that it wont display a signal above 1024x768 but i find that hard to believe cuz it is displaying a higher res from my set top box!

As for the inputs, i have s-video, component, normal video (coaxial cable) and VGA (Which it calls RGB). As i have it at the moment, the computer (6600GT) is connected via s-video, the set top box is connected via VGA and the DVD player is component.. It doesnt have DVI, unfortunately, so im thinking i will have to use VGA. This means i need a switch thinggy to switch between the comp and the STB, can anyone recommend one? I like the Belkin flip, but its pretty pricey!


----------



## Ketxxx (Feb 15, 2007)

I'm back to the red team, X1950Pro here. Now lets figure out why the X1950 series seemingly has its BIOS locked. If anyone wants details jus PM me. In a nutshell tho, for some reason device ID, subsystem ID and subvendor ID are locked.  On closer inspection of the BIOS memory timings also appear to vary quite dramatically from vendor to vendor, lastly, Its time the mystery is solved why any attempted OC results in WORSE performance, apart from, when Overdrive is used (which isnt good.. overdrive sucks) methinks ATi are hiding something with their X1950 Pros

ed- ah yes, and if anyone is having inexplicable game lockups with their X1950 card, change your memory latency, for example if its set to 5ns, set 6ns and that should fix it, im not sure what the deal is with that quirk, but that should fix it.


----------



## PacAce (Feb 15, 2007)

*I want in*

I want to be a member of your ultra-elite club.  I just dont know what kind of x1950 I should get. Is Sapphire better than Diamond?  Does anyone know.  Can anyone tell me?  Well one day I'll submit a photo and go through the necessary hazing to be able to call myself a member. Any input would be appreciated.


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 15, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> I'm back to the red team, X1950Pro here. Now lets figure out why the X1950 series seemingly has its BIOS locked. If anyone wants details jus PM me. In a nutshell tho, for some reason device ID, subsystem ID and subvendor ID are locked.  On closer inspection of the BIOS memory timings also appear to vary quite dramatically from vendor to vendor, lastly, Its time the mystery is solved why any attempted OC results in WORSE performance, apart from, when Overdrive is used (which isnt good.. overdrive sucks) methinks ATi are hiding something with their X1950 Pros
> 
> ed- ah yes, and if anyone is having inexplicable game lockups with their X1950 card, change your memory latency, for example if its set to 5ns, set 6ns and that should fix it, im not sure what the deal is with that quirk, but that should fix it.



Sooo thats the reason w1zz is having problems getting atitool up and running with the pro's...

It all becomes clear with that explanation!


----------



## DOM (Feb 15, 2007)

PacAce said:


> I want to be a member of your ultra-elite club.  I just dont know what kind of x1950 I should get. Is Sapphire better than Diamond?  Does anyone know.  Can anyone tell me?  Well one day I'll submit a photo and go through the necessary hazing to be able to call myself a member. Any input would be appreciated.



which 1950's are looking at GT,Pro, XT, XTX


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## Alcpone (Feb 15, 2007)

PacAce said:


> I want to be a member of your ultra-elite club.  I just dont know what kind of x1950 I should get. Is Sapphire better than Diamond?  Does anyone know.  Can anyone tell me?  Well one day I'll submit a photo and go through the necessary hazing to be able to call myself a member. Any input would be appreciated.



I have the sapphire card and its given me no hassles whatsoever, apart from no being able to clock it with anything but overdrive, which I got it to what I run it 24/7 - 621/796

Never really heard anything about diamond before, think they are just for sale in the u.s.a!


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## PacAce (Feb 15, 2007)

*elite club*

I want a pro with 512Mb that will requiere a single slot.


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## Alcpone (Feb 15, 2007)

PacAce said:


> I want a pro with 512Mb that will requiere a single slot.



What resolution do you want to run @?


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## PacAce (Feb 15, 2007)

*pro*

I want a x1950 pro because I want 512Mb. But if push comes to shove then a 256gt could happen but I want the larger amount of memory. I also only have one slot to use.


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## PacAce (Feb 15, 2007)

My monitor maxs out at 1280 by 1024


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## Ketxxx (Feb 15, 2007)

Alcpone said:


> Sooo thats the reason w1zz is having problems getting atitool up and running with the pro's...
> 
> It all becomes clear with that explanation!



Indeed, it seems ATi have been real bastards for some reason, well not ATi, I would place blame in the direction of AMD, I guess their happy to let nVidia take the graphics OC WR speed crow permanently  

morons.


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## DOM (Feb 15, 2007)

PacAce said:


> I want a x1950 pro because I want 512Mb. But if push comes to shove then a 256gt could happen but I want the larger amount of memory. I also only have one slot to use.



your from the USA? right? here you go 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2E16814153035,N82E16814161061,N82E16814103022


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## Alcpone (Feb 15, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> Indeed, it seems ATi have been real bastards for some reason, well not ATi, I would place blame in the direction of AMD, I guess their happy to let nVidia take the graphics OC WR speed crow permanently
> 
> morons.



So might this be a issue with the r600's aswel? 

I love my pro as it is and with the rest of my rig it really compliments it, even with a small oc I see slightly more performance!


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## Alcpone (Feb 15, 2007)

PacAce said:


> My monitor maxs out at 1280 by 1024



You aint gonna get a massive performance increase with the extra memory @ them resolutions! Might aswel save yourself the money and get a 256Mb card, dont know what the price difference is!


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## PacAce (Feb 15, 2007)

*the elite*

Yeah I've eyeballed those so much that I've practically ruined my screen.  Those all have strong points and weak points,  I have to be carefull not to be defeated by my search or I'll end up making a bad decision, every little thing counts. A pro for jetway is it has a vga connector but their con is slightly slower memory (1200 v 1380 thats more than 10%). The Diamond card which costs more has that far out feature called VIVO which is slightly foriegn sounding (like Spanish).


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## Alcpone (Feb 15, 2007)

PacAce said:


> Yeah I've eyeballed those so much that I've practically ruined my screen.  Those all have strong points and weak points,  I have to be carefull not to be defeated by my search or I'll end up making a bad decision, every little thing counts. A pro for jetway is it has a vga connector but their con is slightly slower memory (1200 v 1380 thats more than 10%). The Diamond card which costs more has that far out feature called VIVO which is slightly foriegn sounding (like Spanish).



lol

vivo = video in video out


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## Ketxxx (Feb 15, 2007)

Alcpone said:


> So might this be a issue with the r600's aswel?
> 
> I love my pro as it is and with the rest of my rig it really compliments it, even with a small oc I see slightly more performance!



It would appear possible. Somebody really needs to name and shame whoevers retarded idea it was to lock a graphics card BIOS. There aint no faster way to lose face than doing that. Its often us enthusiasts that make their stuff look good as well and ppl think ZOMG! an rush out to buy one, an what do they do in return? treat us like sh!t.

I know what u mean by performance tho, @ stock I score 10043 in 3dm05 and 4400ish in 06 @ stock, while ok, with an OC these cards are capable of, they could utterly own 05 and 06 largely, and basically completely shatter nVidias whole 7xxx series lineup given the X1950Pros performance to price ratio. I mean jesus christ, the core is built on a .08nm process and churns out @ least 575MHz @ 1.3v. Imagine what the core could run at given even a small bump to 1.4v, scary isnt it?


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## Alcpone (Feb 15, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> It would appear possible. Somebody really needs to name and shame whoevers retarded idea it was to lock a graphics card BIOS. There aint no faster way to lose face than doing that. Its often us enthusiasts that make their stuff look good as well and ppl think ZOMG! an rush out to buy one, an what do they do in return? treat us like sh!t.
> 
> I know what u mean by performance tho, @ stock I score 10043 in 3dm05 and 4400ish in 06 @ stock, while ok, with an OC these cards are capable of, they could utterly own 05 and 06 largely, and basically completely shatter nVidias whole 7xxx series lineup given the X1950Pros performance to price ratio. I mean jesus christ, the core is built on a .08nm process and churns out @ least 575MHz @ 1.3v. Imagine what the core could run at given even a small bump to 1.4v, scary isnt it?



If I were to bump my PCIe voltage up in the bios will I see a better oc? Or am I thinking along the wrong lines?

Do you think you will work around the lock or is it a impossibility?


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## Ketxxx (Feb 15, 2007)

Wrong lines, by voltage I mean VGPU voltage, which just so happens to be selectable in some X1950Pro BIOS' 

AS for a workaround, its software, so its most deffinately possible. The problem comes with identifying which hexadecimal values are choking the card, or ala 9500 scenario, single hexadecimal value.


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## Alcpone (Feb 15, 2007)

See what you mean   lol

I will keep an eye out for your forth coming updates and work arounds, if I can get more out this baby then hell I will take it & with my cooling temps aint gonna be a problem!


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## Ketxxx (Feb 15, 2007)

Can I get a BIOS dump of your Sapphire card?  you can get a dump with ATi tray tools or the old skool way of via ATIflash, or the newbie way of from ATiwinflash.


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## Alcpone (Feb 15, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> Can I get a BIOS dump of your Sapphire card?  you can get a dump with ATi tray tools or the old skool way of via ATIflash, or the newbie way of from ATiwinflash.



No worries, att wouldnt do it, came up with cant dump r5xx! Will sort it now


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## Ketxxx (Feb 15, 2007)

Sweet


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## Alcpone (Feb 15, 2007)

Does this look right to you?


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## Ketxxx (Feb 15, 2007)

yep, jus save and attach here  btw if u know anyone with a sapphire ultimate 512mb bios, id love to get a look at that too


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## Alcpone (Feb 15, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> yep, jus save and attach here  btw if u know anyone with a sapphire ultimate 512mb bios, id love to get a look at that too



What file am I looking for to save? lol


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## Alcpone (Feb 15, 2007)

Sorry, im tired going to bed now! Here the bios


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## Ketxxx (Feb 15, 2007)

just click save, put a filename in and thats it, should dump an image of your bios


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## Ketxxx (Feb 15, 2007)

Alcpone said:


> Sorry, im tired going to bed now! Here the bios



u forgot to attach it


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## Stikk (Feb 15, 2007)

Hey i have a question about VIVO

Does my card support it? I have a funny feeling it doesnt, but if it does, that'd be awesome.. I have a 256mb X1950 Pro from Power Color.. Anyone know?

Thanks
Ollie


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## tkpenalty (Feb 15, 2007)

Yes it does, if it came with those SVIDEO Connectors, then it is a yes. Note: Sapphire's X1950PRO Ultimate does NOT come with the Rage Theatre 200 Chip. The Powercolor X1950PRO Extreme does however:

List on ATI Rage theatre 200 Avaliability (X1950PRO):
Models with the chip:
-Powercolor X1950PRO Extreme
-Powercolor X1950PRO 
-ASUS X1950PRO

Models without the chip:
-Sapphire X1950PRO Ultimate
-Gigabyte X1950PRO (VF700 ALCU Model).

Help me expand the list please =D.

EDIT: GUYS STOP DISSING ATI/AMD

Its nothing to do with the bios lock, its just something weird with my motherboard. It goes "ERROR Adapter 0 Not found" So which adapter would my X1950PRO be? I honestly think its something to do with my motherboard.


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## tkpenalty (Feb 15, 2007)

How do I get the VRM Cooling unit? I haven't got a reply from Arctic Cooling nor from Powercolor! Someone said it would be free.


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## Stikk (Feb 15, 2007)

Hey tkpenalty, thanks for the tip. Just to clear things up, my card is AGP, does it still support VIVO? It did come with the S-video connectors, but i think i read somewhere that it didnt support VIVO.. Im really hoping it does, it'll save me from buying a whole other card cuz i was gonna invest in a capture card for this very puropse..

Interestingly, it says on the box that it supports AVIVO.. What the hell is that? Is that like ADVANCED vidio in/video out?! Cuz that'd be even more awesome 

thanks
Ollie


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## tkpenalty (Feb 15, 2007)

AVIVO is VIVO, but isn't VIVO. If it came with a S-Video input and analog output, then it HAS AVIVO. Guys who go it doesn't support VIVO are making up FUD. 

EDIT: Just ordered the VRM Cooling unit... (teeming with excitement on a piece of metal; someone needs to get a life *rolls eyes* I wonder who that may bee ).

So my GPU will look pimp with it as well (making damage during installation nearly impossible), heres the link for all you AcceleroX2 + X1950PRO owners who needs a better overclock on the core as well as a longer GPU life span

http://cgi.ebay.com/VR-Heat-Spreade...9009786QQihZ017QQcategoryZ80151QQcmdZViewItem


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## Alcpone (Feb 15, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> u forgot to attach it



Was that the wrong file I uploaded?


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## Ketxxx (Feb 15, 2007)

nvm, u edited the post


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## Ketxxx (Feb 15, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Its nothing to do with the bios lock, its just something weird with my motherboard. It goes "ERROR Adapter 0 Not found" So which adapter would my X1950PRO be? I honestly think its something to do with my motherboard.



Its not your mobo, I tested Flashrom myself and it does the same thing.


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## Tatty_One (Feb 15, 2007)

Seems like hard work to me! although I know that the likes of Ket like a challenge  You fanboyz should have taken my advice and gone for the cheaper 7900GS and overclocked the sh*t outta it.....but then I would say that    Pretty coolers are no substitute for overclocking potential!  

Nevertheless, nice card, nice drivers, nice looks, good performance just challenging!


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## Alcpone (Feb 15, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Seems like hard work to me! although I know that the likes of Ket like a challenge  You fanboyz should have taken my advice and gone for the cheaper 7900GS and overclocked the sh*t outta it.....but then I would say that    Pretty coolers are no substitute for overclocking potential!
> 
> Nevertheless, nice card, nice drivers, nice looks, good performance just challenging!



Be gone from here ye nvidia Kretin


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## Ketxxx (Feb 15, 2007)

The 1950Pro actually OCs a lot, @ 1.3v I can take my 1950 to 632MHz from 575, with 1.4v im sure 680 - 700 is likely possible. Memory likely OCs good too, but cant fully test that.. yet.


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## Batou1986 (Feb 15, 2007)

do you guys think my current system <see specs. would bottleneck an HIS Iceq3 with 512mb agp if i bought a psu with 22a rails 

Because if it wouldn't be a serious issue then i can join the clubhouse


don't flame the 512mb it might not make a difference in games now but who knows whats next and i figure more is all ways better


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## Ketxxx (Feb 15, 2007)

u shouldnt be bottlenecked too much


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## Batou1986 (Feb 15, 2007)

i might be able to squeeze some more mhz out of my sandy possibly to 2.6 if my arctic cooler ever gets here im figuring thats the only bottle neck i can push the ram to 440 stable now


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## Tatty_One (Feb 15, 2007)

Alcpone said:


> Be gone from here ye nvidia Kretin



 

6 cards owned.........4 ATi......2 Nvidia......(just warranty returned a 1800XT)...... ATI Kretin if you dont mind!  Only have the 7900GTO because when I bought it the 1950Pro had just come out and the GTO was cheaper at £149.99 than any other 512MB 1950Pro I could find on release, no simultaneous HDR/AA I know.....but faster.....ohhhh yes!

Ohhh and I look in at the club from time to time purely because they dont make the 1800XT anymore, my warranty options will prob be a cash refund or a 256MB 1950XT, and that would qualify me to join!  Prob would keep the 7900GTO tho and flea bay the 1950XT, not sure yet, I like the 512MB.


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## Zubasa (Feb 15, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> 6 cards owned.........4 ATi......2 Nvidia......(just warranty returned a 1800XT)...... ATI Kretin if you dont mind!  Only have the 7900GTO because when I bought it the 1950Pro had just come out and the GTO was cheaper at £149.99 than any other 512MB 1950Pro I could find on release, no simultaneous HDR/AA I know.....but faster.....ohhhh yes!
> 
> Ohhh and I look in at the club from time to time purely because they dont make the 1800XT anymore, my warranty options will prob be a cash refund or a 256MB 1950XT, and that would qualify me to join!  Prob would keep the 7900GTO tho and flea bay the 1950XT, not sure yet, I like the 512MB.


May be you can get the X1950XT 512MB if you pay for the price difference.


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## Tatty_One (Feb 15, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> The 1950Pro actually OCs a lot, @ 1.3v I can take my 1950 to 632MHz from 575, with 1.4v im sure 680 - 700 is likely possible. Memory likely OCs good too, but cant fully test that.. yet.



But you can buy a 195Pro off the shelf at 680+ core/810 memory anyways, so thats not really challenging!  now I am sure that will rocket and surpass ANYTHING a 7900GS overclocked can offer by some margin....hey I am saying good things about my favorite card manufacturer!


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## Tatty_One (Feb 15, 2007)

Zubasa said:


> May be you can get the X1950XT 512MB if you pay for the price difference.



Very true! or I could go a bit more and get the 1950XTX........where does it all end?


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## Ketxxx (Feb 15, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> But you can buy a 195Pro off the shelf at 680+ core/810 memory anyways, so thats not really challenging!  now I am sure that will rocket and surpass ANYTHING a 7900GS overclocked can offer by some margin....hey I am saying good things about my favorite card manufacturer!



It is when those cards probably have 1.5v going to their VGPU  Besides, @ £113 nuttin can top that price for my 1950Pro


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## Stikk (Feb 16, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> AVIVO is VIVO, but isn't VIVO. If it came with a S-Video input and analog output, then it HAS AVIVO. Guys who go it doesn't support VIVO are making up FUD.



Huh? It is but it isnt? I'm somewhat confused.. It defniately came with an S-Video connector, which is like S-video to component and RCA and all that, but i havent tested anything cuz i dont have my new PSU yet so yeah, still waiting to get paid 

If my card does support VIVO (i hope it does) what program do i use to get the video off my camcorder to my computer? (The camcorder is an old skool 8mm so its not digital, which is why I'm hoping my card has VIVO)

Thanks
Ollie


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## tkpenalty (Feb 16, 2007)

Google is your friend.


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## Stikk (Feb 16, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Google is your friend.



Google is not my friend! I have looked a lot on google, trying to figure this avivo thing out.. Seems ATI have done it purely to confuse people! From what i can tell, it has nothing to do with VIVO at all and it doesnt look like the AGP version of the X1950 Pro supposts it at all.. Am i wrong? Cuz this is the information google has given me.. Im also confused by your "AVIVO is VIVO, but isn't VIVO" Comment!


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## Tatty_One (Feb 16, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> It is when those cards probably have 1.5v going to their VGPU  Besides, @ £113 nuttin can top that price for my 1950Pro



Lol found a 512MB Connect 3D 1950pro for £99.99 clearance deal last night, just cant remember where I found it, think I saved it as a faverite on my PC but I am work now so will check tonite.


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## Tatty_One (Feb 16, 2007)

Stikk said:


> Google is not my friend! I have looked a lot on google, trying to figure this avivo thing out.. Seems ATI have done it purely to confuse people! From what i can tell, it has nothing to do with VIVO at all and it doesnt look like the AGP version of the X1950 Pro supposts it at all.. Am i wrong? Cuz this is the information google has given me.. Im also confused by your "AVIVO is VIVO, but isn't VIVO" Comment!



OK, will this help?:

http://www.videoforums.co.uk/guide-analogue-67.htm

And if you want to try out some free MPeg/capture software go here, look down the page, there are actually some excellent guides and software suggestions:

http://faq.arstechnica.com/?i=4

It may at least be a starting point for you.


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## tkpenalty (Feb 16, 2007)

Oh geez... I fear W1zzard is cutting slack on the X1950PRO Overclockability.

When will he release the next version?


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## Tatty_One (Feb 16, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Oh geez... I fear W1zzard is cutting slack on the X1950PRO Overclockability.
> 
> When will he release the next version?



When the club members have all sold their cards


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## tkpenalty (Feb 16, 2007)

Yep... I think hes slacking off :shadedshu


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## Ketxxx (Feb 16, 2007)

In case some folk havent thought of it.. RAMsinks work equally as effectively  the VRMs really dont need sinking until the card is given extra voltage tho.


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## Ketxxx (Feb 16, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Lol found a 512MB Connect 3D 1950pro for £99.99 clearance deal last night, just cant remember where I found it, think I saved it as a faverite on my PC but I am work now so will check tonite.



Mine was £113 inc vat an delivery


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## Tatty_One (Feb 16, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> Mine was £113 inc vat an delivery



Very nice!, the £99 offer has gone, it was prob one of those ploys to get interest, or they had just one on offer, they are back up to £139.99 now.


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## tkpenalty (Feb 17, 2007)

Tatty_One, you can join even if you don't have a X1950 yet.


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## freeboy (Feb 17, 2007)

ok His 1950 Pro 256 nice card.. System 500 wt, 2gig ram amd duo core 60fx chip 2.6
very very stable and cool, if the ati temps are reading correctly I cannot get this past 42c, comes factory overclocked.. I am a happy camper


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## tkpenalty (Feb 17, 2007)

lol... Damn you US/UK guys and your cool climate!


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## Zubasa (Feb 17, 2007)

OMG~~~~! 
I think my X1950Pro is dead 

Now the card simply could not boot.:shadedshu

Um... Where is the X1600 clubhouse?


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## tkpenalty (Feb 17, 2007)

...What did you do to it  ? 

Walk to the sapphire factory and tell them to repair it.

:shadedshu what temps were you getting before it "died" (or part of your motherboard fried).


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## Zubasa (Feb 18, 2007)

It was a very humid day when it died... 
Its so humid that everything feels sticky:shadedshu


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## tkpenalty (Feb 18, 2007)

RMA. Just send it to Sapphire to get it fixed.


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## tmarkala (Feb 18, 2007)

Hi! I want to by x1950 pro AGP version... I can choos between these two models:

sapphire x1950 pro 512 MB
http://www.sapphiretech.com/us/products/products_overview.php?gpid=168&grp=2

club3D x1950 pro 256 MB
http://www.club-3d.com/productshow_vga.php?gpu_brand=ATI&ordercode=CGA-P1956&show=AGP&p=&filter=&l=en

Price is the same and they both have 2 years waranty! Which one would you recomend? And could my PSU be enough?! 12V/15A?

Zubasa, is your sapphire really dead?


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## Ketxxx (Feb 18, 2007)

try and find a xpertvision 1950Pro, it doesnt use that damn stupid Vitec chip that u can fry an egg on, the xpertvision 1950Pro has had its VRM redone, no heat, no fuss


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## Alcpone (Feb 18, 2007)

Just for a experiment I thought I would flash back to stock bios and run some benchies!

Well, it wont have it, it says p/n mismatch, which I can kinda understand considering the bios I have now is for a sapphire card, but has a voltage table, which mine didnt! Is there anyway round this message I get to get it back to stock so I can do so comparisons?


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## Ketxxx (Feb 18, 2007)

use atiflash from a dos bootdisk


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## Alcpone (Feb 18, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> use atiflash from a dos bootdisk



I dont know where to start with atiflash! Could you do it @ your end and send the file for floppy? I dont know how it works?


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## technicks (Feb 18, 2007)

*voltage regulator cooling*

For those who have a voltage regulator overheating problem with the Sapphire X1950 Pro. Maybe this would help a bit. 

My card also get's a bit warm when playing for longer times. 
So i took out the dremel and cut a heatsink in two pieces.
After sanding it down a bit i taped them on. Worked great. 
I checked with the temps before and after and the card is 3*C cooler. 

http://forums.techpowerup.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6383&stc=1&d=1171835493


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## freeboy (Feb 18, 2007)

just a note to those who are concerned about temps and interested in upgrading to a 1950, My HIS arctic 3 1950pro runs very cool.. highest I have had it is when the space heater was ,oops, pointed at the computer air intake and it went up to 42C.. Playing some graphiuc intense games will not budge this monsterheatsinked card, comes nicely overclocked from the factory too! 224.00 with 256m from Tigerdirect


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## DOM (Feb 18, 2007)

wheres the voltage regulator  on the X1950XT ??
http://forums.techpowerup.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5251&d=1167142487

cuz is 58c hot for the VR cuz heres a pic just after runing ATITool for almost 7mins


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## technicks (Feb 18, 2007)

freeboy said:


> just a note to those who are concerned about temps and interested in upgrading to a 1950, My HIS arctic 3 1950pro runs very cool.. highest I have had it is when the space heater was ,oops, pointed at the computer air intake and it went up to 42C.. Playing some graphiuc intense games will not budge this monsterheatsinked card, comes nicely overclocked from the factory too! 224.00 with 256m from Tigerdirect



Yeah that is the best version off the X1950 pro that has come out untill now imo.
They should sell the coolers separate from the cards.


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## technicks (Feb 18, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> wheres the voltage regulator  on the X1950XT ??
> http://forums.techpowerup.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5251&d=1167142487
> 
> cuz is 58c hot for the VR cuz heres a pic just after runing ATITool for almost 7mins




Here i think.


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## DOM (Feb 18, 2007)

how hot is to hot for the VR?


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## Alcpone (Feb 18, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> use atiflash from a dos bootdisk



Worked it out after a few hickups, found that I got a extra 100 3dmarks06 with your modded bios!


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## tkpenalty (Feb 19, 2007)

58*C is okay, they are designed to take temps in the 90s, HOWEVER, the HIS model has one major problem, no air is blowing on the VRMs.
On the non iceQ model (rare), there is air blowing on it however.


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## Zubasa (Feb 19, 2007)

There are air blowing on the VRMs, but thats gona be hot air...
It will be much better if that cooler blows out of the case.

Btw, you need to update the fist page, change the status from Fully Working to Fully Dead


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 19, 2007)

So Zubasa, any news on your X1950PRO?


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## Zubasa (Feb 19, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> So Zubasa, any news on your X1950PRO?


So far so dead
And I need to wait till Friday to return my X1950Pro...
Last time it took around 15 minutes and they got me a new card.


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## tkpenalty (Feb 19, 2007)

Don't you live near the sapphire factory =_=?


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## Zubasa (Feb 19, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Don't you live near the sapphire factory =_=?


I live near their sales agent.
So basically I return the card to them.
But right now it is the Chinese New Year break.


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 19, 2007)

That explains it 

Happy Chinese New Year!


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 19, 2007)

I would have been a happy one if my X1950Pro did not die on me.


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 19, 2007)

At least you wont have to wait WEEKS for it


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 19, 2007)

True.
Right now I am doing fine on my X1600Pro flash to 600/450Mhz.


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 19, 2007)

wow an X1600 for a backup card...thats pretty good


----------



## tmarkala (Feb 19, 2007)

common guys, please answer... is this a good card?

http://www.club-3d.com/productshow_vga.php?gpu_brand=ATI&ordercode=CGA-P1956&show=AGP&p=&filter=&l=en

has any body heard of it?
as I can see, it looks the same as powercolor's... it has the same cooler...


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 19, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> wow an X1600 for a backup card...thats pretty good


I have a 7300GS as a backup backup card
I couldn't survive with out games.


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 19, 2007)

tmarkala said:


> common guys, please answer... is this a good card?
> 
> http://www.club-3d.com/productshow_vga.php?gpu_brand=ATI&ordercode=CGA-P1956&show=AGP&p=&filter=&l=en
> 
> ...


It is pretty much a regular X1950Pro with Accelero X2.
How much you are going to pay for it?


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 19, 2007)

tmarkala said:


> common guys, please answer... is this a good card?
> 
> http://www.club-3d.com/productshow_vga.php?gpu_brand=ATI&ordercode=CGA-P1956&show=AGP&p=&filter=&l=en
> 
> ...



its similar to powercolors cooler...but its gotta be different because powercolor created their own cooler, although it looks pretty good.

whats the price difference between that and the powercolor?

EDIT - LMAO Zubasa got there before me


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 19, 2007)

The PowerColor X1950 Pro Extreme also uses the Accelero X2, tkp has it.
Btw, so far I haven't seen any GTs around. 
(O.O this is my 700th post lol)


----------



## tmarkala (Feb 19, 2007)

well, it's about 300 dolars here... i'm from Croatia... 
there is no powercolor agp version on our market so i can't compare...
i can only choos between that and the sapphire zubasa have! this one is 256 MB and the Sapphire is 512 MB... price is the same!

see you later guys, I have to run to work!!!!


----------



## technicks (Feb 19, 2007)

You don't need a 512 mb one, unless you play at high resolution.


----------



## Frick (Feb 19, 2007)

technicks said:


> You don't need a 512 mb one, unless you play at high resolution.



What's a high resolution? I've always wondered.. 1600*1200 and above or is 1280*1024 high res too?


----------



## technicks (Feb 19, 2007)

I think 1600x1200 and above.


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 19, 2007)

depends on monitor size too.

I got the 512mb and i play on 19" 1280x1024. Doesnt make a diff from 256mb. BUT, i hook up my PC to my television, so the 512mb helps there 

Oh and 512mb is better if you have less RAM


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 19, 2007)

Normal Television has very low resolution....
Only if you have a HDTV it makes a difference.


----------



## Frick (Feb 19, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> depends on monitor size too.
> 
> I got the 512mb and i play on 19" 1280x1024. Doesnt make a diff from 256mb. BUT, i hook up my PC to my television, so the 512mb helps there
> 
> Oh and 512mb is better if you have less RAM



Does it? Is there a difference between 1280*1024 at a 17'' monitor and a 19'' monitor?


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 19, 2007)

Frick said:


> Does it? Is there a difference between 1280*1024 at a 17'' monitor and a 19'' monitor?



No difference from the cards end, just your monitor thats bigger!


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 20, 2007)

I have an HIS X1950 Pro PCI-E, and I was wondering what you guys are getting on OCs.  I've been running mine at 661.5/823.5 since I bought it in late November.  About a month ago I had this weird artifacting, then it didn't happen for a while.  
It has happened a few times lately, so I turned the memory down to 810 MHz.  I haven't had it happen for a while, but that doesn't make me feel better because I could play for hours at 823.5, but sometimes the artifacting would happen after 10 minutes in BF2142........go figure.  
Anyhow, I was just wondering what you HIS guys were getting.

I ran the artifact scanner for an hour when I first set the OC.


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 20, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> I have an HIS X1950 Pro PCI-E, and I was wondering what you guys are getting on OCs.  I've been running mine at 661.5/823.5 since I bought it in late November.  About a month ago I had this weird artifacting, then it didn't happen for a while.
> It has happened a few times lately, so I turned the memory down to 810 MHz.  I haven't had it happen for a while, but that doesn't make me feel better because I could play for hours at 823.5, but sometimes the artifacting would happen after 10 minutes in BF2142........go figure.
> Anyhow, I was just wondering what you HIS guys were getting.
> 
> I ran the artifact scanner for an hour when I first set the OC.



The HIS cards seem to clock the highest out of the lot, but if it doesnt run stable after a few weeks of higher clocks that could be abit of a bummer! 

I aint got a HIS card, but my oc is 641/804


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 20, 2007)

Wow that's pretty high for the Sapphire.  I had one with the reference cooler (not the ultimate) and I RMAd it because the VRMs were overheating.  I couldn't get the core over 594 MHz without getting a black screen.  
That memory you have is rated at 800 MHz max OC compared to mine @ 700, but I've had it stable at 823.5. 
I'm wondering if it's a driver problem, as the issue began with the 6.12s I believe.  I'm currently running the 7.1 Warcats, so maybe when the 7.2s come out in a few weeks it will go away.


----------



## freeboy (Feb 20, 2007)

His artic 3  1950pro 621 741 factory overy clock highest temp seen 41c, 42 when I pointed the heater at it... I am very impressed with the card even at only 256 for mem, and run at high res and see no slowdaown.. have yet to run to hdtv... BUT I could spend some more and return it and get a 512 card. I guess I do not see the point, any thoughts? fyi prive difference is 50.00


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 20, 2007)

You don't need 512 Mb of memory unless you have:
a small amount of system memory
or 
you run high resoutions


----------



## freeboy (Feb 20, 2007)

Well, running 19x12 with setting set as high as they come in Med tot war 2 and am seeingno lag, I think I have a bunch of cache,like 16? and 2 gig of ram.. if I need to change in the future I can always sell of this card, really love it for cool fast performance!..
I read the h2h performance vs the high end nvidea cards and this one does a great job, the shader teck ati uses is nice... anyway I tried to spend my mony as best I could, building a barebones system, mights have wanted to get a different mobo but at the price I was hapy. thanks again.
FYI from another thread to those catilist users, some art can be traced to not having the most recent windows media player! Strange but true, updating to wmp 11 fixed two minor but annoying bugs I was having..


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 20, 2007)

If your not gonna upgrade anytime soon, you may as well go 512mb. Who knows, maybe games in the near future will need it. I mean, look at ATi, they are releasing 1 and 2GB of VRAM on their cards...


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 20, 2007)

^Agreed.


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 20, 2007)

Yea that is true, but I think the reason is that the memory controller is better and the unified shaders can utilize more memory.  That's just a guess though.  I just know that I've always read that more than 256 Mb on midrange cards isn't necessary due to the memory controller not being able to utilize the extra VRAM.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 20, 2007)

I'm still waiting for the VRM module... T_T HURRY UP EBAY!


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 20, 2007)

Let me guess......Sapphire X1950 pro!  That is the very reason that I RMAd my first X1950.  I couldn't get the core past 594 MHz without the screen going black because the VRMs weren't cooled by the reference cooler.  I tried to get Sapphire to send me one, and even offered to purchase one, but they wouldn't.  So I just RMAd!


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 20, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> Let me guess......Sapphire X1950 pro!  That is the very reason that I RMAd my first X1950.  I couldn't get the core past 594 MHz without the screen going black because the VRMs weren't cooled by the reference cooler.  I tried to get Sapphire to send me one, and even offered to purchase one, but they wouldn't.  So I just RMAd!


How could I manage to get to 641 if you can't even get pass 594...
My VRMs really don't get hot at all, they hardly feels warm usually....


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 20, 2007)

LOL I RMAd the Sapphire and got an HIS.  
This was only an issue on some of the early Sapphires I think.  The VRMs weren't in contact with the HS and the lower one was exposed, I think.


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 20, 2007)

I returned my Sapphire once and the new one runs cooler.(The bios has better fan speed)
But now someone apperently killed it....
I use the VF-900 and it does not contact anything except the core, but the VRMs don't get hot at all.
So I guess it is not the cooler.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 20, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> Let me guess......Sapphire X1950 pro!  That is the very reason that I RMAd my first X1950.  I couldn't get the core past 594 MHz without the screen going black because the VRMs weren't cooled by the reference cooler.  I tried to get Sapphire to send me one, and even offered to purchase one, but they wouldn't.  So I just RMAd!



No... I just need it to have safer OCs


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 20, 2007)

Honestly binormalkilla, don't you see that tkp has a PowerColor with the X2....?
Its right on the sig...


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 20, 2007)

Zubasa said:


> How could I manage to get to 641 if you can't even get pass 594...
> My VRMs really don't get hot at all, they hardly feels warm usually....



Are you sure you know how the VRMs look like? They aren't cooled if you haven't realised. They run extremely hot FYI and aren't those capacitors in rows. Almost every model shares the same problem (except for HIS's IceQIII & Standard X1950PRO)).


----------



## Tatty_One (Feb 20, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> If your not gonna upgrade anytime soon, you may as well go 512mb. Who knows, maybe games in the near future will need it. I mean, look at ATi, they are releasing 1 and 2GB of VRAM on their cards...



Games now need it, despite what some with just 256MB might think.  For example, you cant even play GRAW on highest settings without 512MB, and again nothing above medium settings at a resolution above 1280 x 1024 without 512MB, people might set higher but the game defaults to medium.

Any fairly modern game, take FEAR for example, when on max settings at just 1680 x 1200 uses upto 205MB of system memory at any given time if you are using a 256MB card, that is a lot of RAM Swap which does reduce frame rates and therefore causes the "jerkiness" and in a game as graphically intensive as FEAR/Oblivion/GRAW etc can mean the difference between playable FPS or not on all but the best cards.  Having 256MB cards in those circumstances can easily mean a 15% performance loss, imagine the performance hit if your resolutions were higher!


----------



## Tatty_One (Feb 20, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> You don't need 512 Mb of memory unless you have:
> a small amount of system memory
> or
> you run high resoutions



It's not just about the amount of system memory, its about the fact that "swapping" because of a lack of Video memory is so much slower causeing a loss in FPS.


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 20, 2007)

> Honestly binormalkilla, don't you see that tkp has a PowerColor with the X2....?
> Its right on the sig...


Honestly I don't pay that much attention to sigs


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 20, 2007)

Zubasa, the "Pulse" chip and that "VTEC (or something, the long one) are the main culpruits of heat... they run REAL hot.


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 20, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Zubasa, the "Pulse" chip and that "VTEC (or something, the long one) are the main culpruits of heat... they run REAL hot.


Yes they do get warm.
Its warm but not really that hot...

I guess hot means different for everyone...
(I am used to picking up fresh fries and eat them )


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 20, 2007)

I had to heatsink them... apparently they were causing problems... However I am waiting now waiting now waiting now waiting now!!! FOR THE VRM UNIT TO ARRIVE AT MY DOORSTEP NOW (Okay... some initial D music... im so freaking bored).


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 20, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> I had to heatsink them... apparently they were causing problems... However I am waiting now waiting now waiting now waiting now!!! FOR THE VRM UNIT TO ARRIVE AT MY DOORSTEP NOW (Okay... some initial D music... im so freaking bored).


Initial D Music~
I have lots of them
In all off them, I like 'Rage Your Dream' the most.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 20, 2007)

No I mean the Eurobeat albums... Somehow they ended up on my PC (shops).

"INTERNET LOL" #RUNNING IN THE 90's# LOLOLOLLOLOL!!!!

Hong Kong's air quality is horrible.. IMHO. Have you been to the actual sapphire factory?


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 20, 2007)

Nope, the air up there will be lethal...

Yes I have the Eurobeat Alblums also. 
The Dave Rodgers ones are nice.
I like them, but I like the mood in the jp themes.

Btw, do you have the Non-Stop Mega Mix?

Space Boy~~~~


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 20, 2007)

Yeah, almost all of them. When are you getting the X1950PRO replaced?


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 20, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Yeah, almost all of them. When are you getting the X1950PRO replaced?


Friday when they get back from the Chinese New Year break.
Damn long break.:shadedshu


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 20, 2007)

Ok anyone know the function of this pulse chip?  I'm thinking about heatsinking it, as I've heard several people say it gets hot.  I'm going to try to get a hold of an infrared thermometer to see......


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 21, 2007)

Its either a Pulse or Vtec chip on there...


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 21, 2007)

I know it is the pulse chip, I'm just wondering what the chip does.  I see now that there are two of the pulse chips, above and below the VRMs.  I'm thinking that these control voltage distribution somehow.  From what I've read, these X1950 Pros are the first cards to use a digital VRM interface.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 21, 2007)

Yes those NEED heatsinking. When the X1950PRO powercolor ships with the VRM plate... that will only be the BEST model.


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 21, 2007)

It seems that mine is under the fan, but it isn't heatsinked.  Go figure.  Oh well I haven't run into any weird issues that I reported, and I played BF2142 at 623.5/810 for 2 hours tonight, and the ambient temp was 75C.  
I'm going to chalk it up to either a driver bug or unstable system memory.


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 21, 2007)

Tk, got the backplate yet?


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 21, 2007)

No... Apparently the HIS model doesn't have any VRM cooling... wow-X1950PRO AcceleroX2 rules XD.

The VF900CU DOES NOT whatsoever properly cool the VRMS, btw.


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 21, 2007)

Yea the HISs have VRM cooling.  They have a separate heatsink on the right side of the PCB.  
You're right though, the VF900 does nothing for the VRMs.
I ordered one and installed it on my Sapphire, thinking that it may cool the VRMs better than the reference cooler, but it would crash immediately upon entering a 3d app.  All of the cards have VRM cooling of some sort, they have to or this would happen.  Some are better than others.  The reason I didn't buy the Powercolor model was that I heard people say that it raised their mobo temps due to the fact that the exhaust is pointed in that direction. 
I've spoken to many with X1950 Pros, and the HISs can get the highest clocks by far.  If we could only get some more voltage through these using software.........I'm not VModding with a soldering iron!


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 21, 2007)

...I think I should RMA my X1950PRO... its producing huuuge artifacts in Source engine games.. weirdly enough not in BF2 and 2142 though.

EDIT:... Driver related issues.... I figured the 7.1SE sucked.... This problem only occured after I changed the drivers. (SHIT I LOST MY RECIEPT)


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 21, 2007)

Ive had pretty high clocks, and ive only used ATi overdrive (not winclick)

Ive gotten 627/797


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 21, 2007)

I did not get any problem whatsoever with the VF-900CU.
My VRMs don't seems to have any problems.


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 21, 2007)

I think that the problems were with the first batch of Sapphires.  I bought my Sapphire when the cards first came out.  I didn't really want another one because a whole boatload of people were having problems at the Sapphire forums, so I just decided to get the one I have now.  
I can't wait to get another one!
BTW, here are my 3dmark results:


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 21, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> I think that the problems were with the first batch of Sapphires.  I bought my Sapphire when the cards first came out.  I didn't really want another one because a whole boatload of people were having problems at the Sapphire forums, so I just decided to get the one I have now.
> I can't wait to get another one!
> BTW, here are my 3dmark results:



CORRRECT!


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 21, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> I think that the problems were with the first batch of Sapphires.  I bought my Sapphire when the cards first came out.  I didn't really want another one because a whole boatload of people were having problems at the Sapphire forums, so I just decided to get the one I have now.
> I can't wait to get another one!
> BTW, here are my 3dmark results:



What resolution is that 3dmark set @?


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 21, 2007)

1024*768.  I have my TV as  a monitor so I can't run anything higher without producing inaccurate results.
I can't remember if the default is 1024*768 or the next step up (can't remember what it is exactly)

BTW the Catalyst 7.2s are out today!


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 22, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> 1024*768.  I have my TV as  a monitor so I can't run anything higher without producing inaccurate results.
> I can't remember if the default is 1024*768 or the next step up (can't remember what it is exactly)
> 
> BTW the Catalyst 7.2s are out today!



That explains your score  

Im not sure how your monitor would affect your result, you could set it up for 1280x1024 then disconnect your monitor until the test was finished to compare it with other scores with similar specs to yours then change the res back down!

I wonder if the 7.2's have sorted out the 7.1 issues with clocking


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 22, 2007)

Running the default resolution doesn't affect the score that much.  I can't remember what it was, but I'll run it again sometime and post it.  I guess that the card would still render the  non-displayed graphics, but I was thinking that it wouldn't be accurate.  I dunno.


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 22, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> Running the default resolution doesn't affect the score that much.  I can't remember what it was, but I'll run it again sometime and post it.  I guess that the card would still render the  non-displayed graphics, but I was thinking that it wouldn't be accurate.  I dunno.



It wont affect the scores at all imo, the gfx card wont know if the monitor is connected or not, I could be wrong but I dont think I am! 

I will run a 1024x768 test now and post back the difference for you!


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 22, 2007)

Comparison results! 

So even though your clocks are higher than mine, my sm.2 & sm.3/hdr scores are higher, I guess that is down to having a better cpu I guess?


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 22, 2007)

Um, my SM2.0 score is 2280 and my HDR/SM3.0 is 2816.  Compared to your 2092 & 2333.  Your CPU score was higher:  mine was 2004 and yours was 2738. 
What's up with the merged text on the CPU score?  Doing a little Photoshop work on that score are we?  LOL JK!
I don't think that you can compare the individual scores with different CPUs, but i'm not sure on that one.

Yea though, your CPU  will eat mine for breakfast and sh1t it out before lunch.  I wish I had a C2D.........


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 22, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> Um, my SM2.0 score is 2280 and my HDR/SM3.0 is 2816.  Compared to your 2092 & 2333.  Your CPU score was higher:  mine was 2004 and yours was 2738.
> What's up with the merged text on the CPU score?  Doing a little Photoshop work on that score are we?  LOL JK!
> I don't think that you can compare the individual scores with different CPUs, but i'm not sure on that one.
> 
> Yea though, your CPU  will eat mine for breakfast and sh1t it out before lunch.  I wish I had a C2D.........



The left pic is my 1280x1024 result, the right is my 1024x768 result!  

No cheating here my friend, just pointing out I have a better score than you, I know my C2D is better than yours but I cant explain why my sm2.0 & sm.30 are better than yours when your clocks are higher??? It must be down to the cpu in some way, maybe someone with a idea may pitch in a thought!


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 22, 2007)

Yea that has to be it.  I think that the tips say that you can't compare the SM scores with different CPUs.


----------



## Frick (Feb 22, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> and again nothing above medium settings at a resolution above 1280 x 1024 without 512MB, people might set higher but the game defaults to medium.



Whew. Great thing I'm stuck to that resolution then.


----------



## Tatty_One (Feb 22, 2007)

Alcpone said:


> The left pic is my 1280x1024 result, the right is my 1024x768 result!
> 
> No cheating here my friend, just pointing out I have a better score than you, I know my C2D is better than yours but I cant explain why my sm2.0 & sm.30 are better than yours when your clocks are higher??? It must be down to the cpu in some way, maybe someone with a idea may pitch in a thought!


To answer your question, it dont matter that his GPU/Mem clocks are higher, your CPU is giving your card so much of a boost it's surpassing his, 2006 is quite CPU dependant, if you both run 2005 you will see a closer run thing as that is less CPU dependant, on my card (7900GTO) if I run 2006 with the CPU at stock but the card at 720/850 it is nowhere near as quick as when I run the card at stock but the CPU at a 50% overclock, its just the way 2006 is.

Even tho on 2005, the difference in score between stock CPU and Overclocked CPU with the same Gfx settings can be between 700 - 1000 points.


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 22, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> To answer your question, it dont matter that his GPU/Mem clocks are higher, your CPU is giving your card so much of a boost it's surpassing his, 2006 is quite CPU dependant, if you both run 2005 you will see a closer run thing as that is less CPU dependant, on my card (7900GTO) if I run 2006 with the CPU at stock but the card at 720/850 it is nowhere near as quick as when I run the card at stock but the CPU at a 50% overclock, its just the way 2006 is.
> 
> Even tho on 2005, the difference in score between stock CPU and Overclocked CPU with the same Gfx settings can be between 700 - 1000 points.



Thanks for the explanation  

So the cpu is very much important in helping the gfx card get that extra edge with sm.


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 22, 2007)

Yeah cus in 06, the SM2.0 and 3.0 are graphics AND CPU dependant.

Think about it, when you OC your CPU, you get a higher SM2.0 and 3.0 score  (well i do at least )


----------



## DOM (Feb 22, 2007)

yea with my CPU at stock I get 5707 and when CPU at 3.6Ghz I got 6400's some where in there forgot lol and the card is at stock at both stock CPU and at 3.6GHz but it does go up in SM2,3 when CPU is OCed


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 22, 2007)

What I was trying to get at was that even if your cpu is clocked or not, you still get better gfx in sm2.0 & sm3.0 intensive games if it is clocked


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 22, 2007)

The difference b/w 05 and 06 is in regard to the CPU is that it's multi-threaded.


----------



## Tatty_One (Feb 23, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> The difference b/w 05 and 06 is in regard to the CPU is that it's multi-threaded.



thats correct but thats not the only difference, the CPU in 2006 plays an integral part in the test and is scored seperatly as such....it is not in 2005 hence 2006 is more CPU biased.  I managed to score 6000 2006 points with a single core Athlon!


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 23, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> thats correct but thats not the only difference, the CPU in 2006 plays an integral part in the test and is scored seperatly as such....it is not in 2005 hence 2006 is more CPU biased.  I managed to score 6000 2006 points with a single core Athlon!



NICE!
Is that with your 7900 GTO?  BTW, does that card have the same Samsung memory chips as the 7900GS (or GT can't remember)?  If so, then we have the same ICs.  I was wondering what your max stable OC is with those.  Here is a link for you to compare if you don't know, though I'm sure you do.  You seem knowledgeable.

http://www.samsung.com/Products/Sem.../GDDR3SDRAM/256Mbit/K4J55323QG/K4J55323QG.htm
The ones that I have (and the 7900GS has) are the BC14s
I'm running mine at 823 and several others are at XtremeSystems forums.

I wish that I could combine my cooler and stock OC with the Sapphire's memory, they have the 1.2 ns access time chips rated at max 800 MHz.  Hell I could get those bad boys up to 900 MHz I bet.  Maybe even more with more voltage.

I just found this.  This guy got them to 870 MHz


----------



## leopr (Feb 23, 2007)

Finally got today my PowerColor X1950Pro Extreme 512, i was reading about the VRM temps, should i add some ram skins there if i want to OC or i will be under a risk if oc with those VRM without cooling?

It Runs pretty cool, 34 idle 33 env temp.


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 23, 2007)

I'm not sure, but I think that the Powercolor's have VRM heatsinks, but they're just not very high quality.  I know some guys at Overclock.net that have gotten some pretty high OCs with that card.  You may want to make sure that you have some good case cooling (with the wind-tunnel effect) because that cooler's exhaust is aimed at the motherboard.  Some people have reported northbridge temps rising by 5C with that card OCed.

BTW are you using ATI Tray Tools for memory overclocking?  I have to use Rivatuner for my memory.  If you use overdrive for memory OCing it can actually make your 3dmark scores go down!


----------



## leopr (Feb 23, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> I'm not sure, but I think that the Powercolor's have VRM heatsinks, but they're just not very high quality.  I know some guys at Overclock.net that have gotten some pretty high OCs with that card.  You may want to make sure that you have some good case cooling (with the wind-tunnel effect) because that cooler's exhaust is aimed at the motherboard.  Some people have reported northbridge temps rising by 5C with that card OCed.
> 
> BTW are you using ATI Tray Tools for memory overclocking?  I have to use Rivatuner for my memory.  If you use overdrive for memory OCing it can actually make your 3dmark scores go down!



I was using the latest version of ATi Tray Tools but it gave me crash problems, right now using the latest beta, seems fine at least according to Ray Adams, the creator, it supports X1950Pro now.

The VRM on my card are like those on the VR-Zone review.

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4190&s=6

I could try get some Zalman Ram Skins, its no problem, but worth ? It will help ?.


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 23, 2007)

leopr said:


> I was using the latest version of ATi Tray Tools but it gave me crash problems, right now using the latest beta, seems fine at least according to Ray Adams, the creator, it supports X1950Pro now.
> 
> The VRM on my card are like those on the VR-Zone review.
> 
> ...



What version of ATT you got? The latest I can find is 1.2.6.964


----------



## leopr (Feb 23, 2007)

http://atitray.fangel.ru/b1/attsetup.exe

*ATi Tray Tools 1.3.6.1000*, beta of course but supports X1950Pro it seems.


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 23, 2007)

I'm running v 1.2.6.996
Get it here:
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=206455

Oh thanks for linking that version of ATT.  I'm about to install now. 

BTW, I would suggest getting these Swiftech MC14s:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835108071
I have them on my VRMs on my motherboard to keep them nice and cool.  
Don't listen to the noobs on newegg.com reviews, they don't know what they're talking about.
I used these on a surface area of 1/4 the ramsink and they stick fine.


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 23, 2007)

leopr said:


> http://atitray.fangel.ru/b1/attsetup.exe
> 
> *ATi Tray Tools 1.3.6.1000*, beta of course but supports X1950Pro it seems.


----------



## leopr (Feb 23, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> I'm running v 1.2.6.996
> Get it here:
> http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=206455
> 
> ...



No problem.

About the Ram Skins, since i dont live in USA, actually because of my work i live half year on Israel and the other half on USA, but right now i am on Israel  , anyway, those Swiftech Ram skins are not on stock but i can get the Zalman ones, they are blue, metalic blue, should be ok ? I dont even know if it is needed but if it makes the card 'feel' better, why not


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 23, 2007)

Those should work fine.  If you are going to get some for you memory, I would wait and order those swiftechs.  They are great!
Also, those Zalman's are made from aluminum, whereas the Swiftechs are forged copper.  Not to mention the MASSIVE surface are that those tall, thin cylinders provide.


----------



## leopr (Feb 23, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> Those should work fine.  If you are going to get some for you memory, I would wait and order those swiftechs.  They are great!
> Also, those Zalman's are made from aluminum, whereas the Swiftechs are forged copper.  Not to mention the MASSIVE surface are that those tall, thin cylinders provide.



But as far i see, the Accelero X2 covers the memory chips right ?, i got the PowerColor 512Mb Extreme.

I can wait 3-4 days for the Swiftechs, not a big deal.


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 23, 2007)

Yea they cover the memory chips, I see in that pic that they have thermal pads between the cooler and the memory.  
I was just saying in case you decide to go with a new cooler and separate RAMsinks.

BTW if you wait for those Swiftechs, you can use two on your VRMs:  one for the memory VRM and one for the GPU VRM.  
You can use the other ones for your motherboard.  I put mine on the VRMS for the CPU, RAM, and other areas where they will fit.

WOA I hope you reseated the GPU with some Arctic Silver 5 because they gooped on the thermal paste like crazy!  Look at that it's insane!


----------



## leopr (Feb 23, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> Yea they cover the memory chips, I see in that pic that they have thermal pads between the cooler and the memory.
> I was just saying in case you decide to go with a new cooler and separate RAMsinks.
> 
> BTW if you wait for those Swiftechs, you can use two on your VRMs:  one for the memory VRM and one for the GPU VRM.
> ...



I might put some AS5 soon ye, but for now i am happy, 33 @ idle, 46 @ full, 600/700, no oc tho.

I will wait for the Swiftechs, they really look good, the ones i wont use i guess i will save them because the GA-965P-DS4 and the Heat Pipe system covers all the VRMs  

Who knows, i might need them when i will get some of the new ATi 2xxxx series ^^.


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 23, 2007)

I'm going to wait a while before I get a DX10 card.  I'm going to buy another HIS X1950 Pro first.  DX10 games won't be standard for a while.  Crysis will be compatible with DX9 too, and I wonder how different the game will look.  
I really don't want to buy Vista either!


----------



## Tatty_One (Feb 23, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> NICE!
> Is that with your 7900 GTO?  BTW, does that card have the same Samsung memory chips as the 7900GS (or GT can't remember)?  If so, then we have the same ICs.  I was wondering what your max stable OC is with those.  Here is a link for you to compare if you don't know, though I'm sure you do.  You seem knowledgeable.
> 
> http://www.samsung.com/Products/Sem.../GDDR3SDRAM/256Mbit/K4J55323QG/K4J55323QG.htm
> ...



Yes with the 7900GTO and an Athlon 4000+ at 3.25Gig, yes same BC14 chips also on the MSI version of the card, the only other version of the 7900GTO is EVGA and they use another less overclockable one (not sure which tho), I think the timings are tighter on the 7900GTO than the GS and GTX tho.

I think voltage is the key, the GTO is undervolted in comparison to the GTX (on mem) and the same apples to the GT, mine has loostened up considerably since I got it, when I started I could only get 810 out of the memory but I am now upto 850 stable as a rock, TBH I have not tried more yet so I might!  Same core also but again voltage, the 7900GT being of lower volts, mine is the same as the GTX and clocks as well, rock solid at 710, have got 720 out of her before and sometimes she will run 3D Mark 2006 at those speeds, other times = BSOD!! so not too stable.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 23, 2007)

Please... guys get back on topic.

Apart from that, the AcceleroX2 VRM unit is only meant to be used on either a X1950PRO installed with a VF900CU or AcceleroX2. Honestly, they get too hot.


----------



## leopr (Feb 23, 2007)

I asked PowerColor about the VRM cooling of their Accelero X2 1950Pro series, basically if i should add some after market cooling like ram skins.

He answered this.



			
				PowerColor TechSupport said:
			
		

> On 2/23/07, tech <tech@powercolor.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> ATI does not recemmend this action as it will result in possible damage to the Voltage
> ...



I will get anyway the Swiftech Ram Skins, hopefully on sunday they will arrive.

Besides that, i've been playing FarCry and FEAR for like 3-4 hours, no problems.

Catalyst 6.12, Stock speeds tho, 601/700, 48 degress @ full.


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 23, 2007)

> Please... guys get back on topic.


Sry dude, didn't mean to get off topic, but I asked him about the NVidia card because it has the same IC memory chips as almost all of the X1950 Pro (except the Sapphire)

Anyhow, I'm running back at 661.5/823.5 completely stable, I believe the weird problems that I was having was due to unstable system memory, which I am RMAing in a few days.  This card can handle BF2142 at all full settings averaging around 70-90 FPS.

BTW leopr, he is correct about the operating temp.  Those chips are meant to run at a higher temp.  Unless you are having issues with the card, such as black screens after prolonged periods of gaming/benchmarking, then I wouldn't sink the VRMs.  If you do, make sure you clean the surface well so you can remove the heatsinks if you have to RMA.  The Swiftechs are some high quality sinks, so they should work out well for you.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 24, 2007)

Fuck... FUCK FUCK!!!! I burnt myself accidentally touching one of the VRMs, while adjusting the FOX-2 40CFM blower fan....there are only two and they get so hot.


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 24, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Fuck... FUCK FUCK!!!! I burnt myself accidentally touching one of the VRMs, while adjusting the FOX-2 40CFM blower fan....there are only two and they get so hot.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 24, 2007)

I had to type this with one hand, after sticking on an X300 passive heatsink, the heat quickly transferred...

(So thats how it feels to get burnt by a CPU IHS )


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 24, 2007)

Any news on the backplate yet?


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 24, 2007)

nope still hasnt arrived.


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 24, 2007)

When did you buy it?


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 24, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> When did you buy it?



Around the start of this week... wait more like... oh I got it TWO DAYS AGO T_T. It was in my junk mail pile, and then I found a small package that was hard.... Yep. My dad took my HD camera.


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 24, 2007)

lmao!

Nice ...tell us how it goes


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 24, 2007)

The plate feels like a hot plate with the fan off. With the fan on, its just a bit warm.


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 24, 2007)

Oh well apperently my X1950Pro won't be back for 3 weeks.


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 24, 2007)

:|

Why so long?


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 24, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> :|
> 
> Why so long?


Apparently something is dead on the card, it looks like the card got completely knocked out...

This time the card is going back to Sapphire...
I kind of knew this would happen since they got a dozen dead X1950Pros stack on the counter. 
(They are collected on that same morning...  One only got CF problem but all are going back... The guy said most of them have dead VRMs. )
It looks like they got no more X1950Pros for replacement...


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 24, 2007)

Ohh that sucks


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 24, 2007)

Many people killed their card by replacing the cooler because none of them know to cool the VRMs.
For me it looks like my card got shorted out somehow.


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 24, 2007)

...speaking of VRM's...i cant see any on the back of my PCB, is that normal ?

What would the backplate do if there are no VRM's there


----------



## ling-ling-ling-ling (Feb 24, 2007)

Zubasa said:


> How about post your own temps from your Accelero X2 first?



The X2 is sh1t! I bought 1 and regret it, and it cost me my expensive VC due to a faulty fan.


----------



## Frick (Feb 24, 2007)

ling-ling-ling-ling said:


> The X2 is sh1t! I bought 1 and regret it, and it cost me my expensive VC due to a faulty fan.



? Odd. My x2 (I didn't mount it myself though, thanks Powercolor ) is really great. Idle temps @ 37 degrees C and it never goes above 50. I have a pretty decent airflow in my case though..

@zubasa: Were all the faulty x1950pro's from Sapphire?


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 24, 2007)

Frick said:


> ? Odd. My x2 (I didn't mount it myself though, thanks Powercolor ) is really great. Idle temps @ 37 degrees C and it never goes above 50. I have a pretty decent airflow in my case though..
> 
> @zubasa: Were all the faulty x1950pro's from Sapphire?


They are actually killed Sapphires, because you can see on the screws that someone removed the coolers. (One of them just cant CF.)
There are also a pile of 7900GS from Galaxy. lol


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 24, 2007)

I aint had a problem with my X1950Pro yet, hopefully I wont, I have it nicely cooled and the vrm's aint a issue even with the added vgpu!


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 24, 2007)

Honestly, one of the major design flaws of the X1950PRO is the fact that the VRMs aren't cooled properly. They get so ffing hot, whoever said that installing the AcceleroX2 will kill your GPU are probably stupid. 

Lets hope sapphire decides to add heatsinks to the VRMs.
Powercolor already has though, its funny that manufacturers didnt see this coming. 

EDIT: Interesting... apparently powercolor has this ceramic black heat transfer plate on the side of each of the VRMs, the VRMs still get very hot though.


----------



## leopr (Feb 24, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Honestly, one of the major design flaws of the X1950PRO is the fact that the VRMs aren't cooled properly. They get so ffing hot, whoever said that installing the AcceleroX2 will kill your GPU are probably stupid.
> 
> Lets hope sapphire decides to add heatsinks to the VRMs.
> Powercolor already has though, its funny that manufacturers didnt see this coming.
> ...



I asked Power Color regarding my X1950Pro 512MB Accelero X2 and the VRMs, they said they can operate @ 125 degress with no problem.
I got also the ceramic heat spreaders, i might add some ram skins soon tho, i will have to remove the ceramic spreaders or put the ram skins over them ?.


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 25, 2007)

ling-ling-ling-ling said:


> The X2 is sh1t! I bought 1 and regret it, and it cost me my expensive VC due to a faulty fan.



All of the powercolor ones ive heard of work fine. Are you sure you installed it properly?


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 25, 2007)

leopr said:


> I asked Power Color regarding my X1950Pro 512MB Accelero X2 and the VRMs, they said they can operate @ 125 degress with no problem.
> I got also the ceramic heat spreaders, i might add some ram skins soon tho, i will have to remove the ceramic spreaders or put the ram skins over them ?.



They aren't over the VRM modules. Its better to cool them than let them burn. @125 degrees they will be likely to malfunction


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 25, 2007)

Powercolor are just saying that to save themselves 

If that was the case, why would they put extra VRM cooling?


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 25, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> Powercolor are just saying that to save themselves
> 
> If that was the case, why would they put extra VRM cooling?



Will double-sided tape conduct heat?


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 25, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Will double-sided tape conduct heat?



Stick abit on the end of your finger and touch the vrm   then you will know!

Go on a dare you


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 25, 2007)

Alcpone said:


> Stick abit on the end of your finger and touch the vrm   then you will know!
> 
> Go on a dare you



I burnt myself AGAIN... 
Okay.. I've decided to go thermal paste + three rubber bands for retention, I'm trying to cool one of the MOFSETS on the rear of the GPU.


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 25, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> I burnt myself AGAIN...
> Okay.. I've decided to go thermal paste + three rubber bands for retention, I'm trying to cool one of the MOFSETS on the rear of the GPU.



hmmm... do thermal paste and mosfets go together? That sounds bit like trouble in the pipeline! MOSFETS are the little fellas right underneath the gpu on the other side of the pcb arnt they?


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 25, 2007)

> Will double-sided tape conduct heat?



Grab some double side thermal tape, like the stuff that comes pre-installed on RAMsinks.  
BTW, do you have a link for that backplate you ordered for the VRMs?  Is is shorter than a RAMsink?  I'm thinking about getting something to cool my PULSE chips......
Thermal tape link:
http://www.thermaflo.com/ifmat_tape.shtml
BTW from what I've heard, using any kind of thermal paste on IC chips isn't a good idea.  That stuff is usually capacitive (not very conductive though) and can cause problems if they span across a live circuit on the PCB.

That link I showed has descriptions for the applications involved.  It has some pretty good stuff there, such as thermal conductivity, elasticity, etc.  This way you can find something that conducts well, but doesn't need support after it's been applied.  If you want something to attach a VRM sink with I would use something that doesn't permanently bond to the IC, in case you have to RMA.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 25, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> Grab some double side thermal tape, like the stuff that comes pre-installed on RAMsinks.
> BTW, do you have a link for that backplate you ordered for the VRMs?  Is is shorter than a RAMsink?  I'm thinking about getting something to cool my PULSE chips......
> Thermal tape link:
> http://www.thermaflo.com/ifmat_tape.shtml
> ...



Nah, Powercolor said I can keep the VRM plate on if I need to RMA and send me a new X1950PRO with the VRM plate.


----------



## micron (Feb 25, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> That stuff is usually *capacitive*



ca·pac·i·tance Pronunciation (k-ps-tns)

1. Symbol C The ratio of charge to potential on an electrically charged, isolated conductor.
2. Symbol C The ratio of the electric charge transferred from one to the other of a pair of conductors to the resulting potential difference between them.

I think what you're really talking about is _thermal epoxy_......regardless, the stuff neither capacitive _or_ conductive.


----------



## erocker (Feb 25, 2007)

Hey!  I'm wondering what people are getting for 3dMark06 scores with thier x1950 AGP cards.

Here's mine:


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 25, 2007)

erocker said:


> Hey!  I'm wondering what people are getting for 3dMark06 scores with thier x1950 AGP cards.
> 
> Here's mine:



Thats a good score


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 25, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> Grab some double side thermal tape, like the stuff that comes pre-installed on RAMsinks.
> BTW, do you have a link for that backplate you ordered for the VRMs?  Is is shorter than a RAMsink?  I'm thinking about getting something to cool my PULSE chips......
> Thermal tape link:
> http://www.thermaflo.com/ifmat_tape.shtml
> ...



I know about thermal tape obviously that stuff probably is hard to obtain, and Shin-Etsu is better.
Thermal tape by all means is never capacitive FYI, why do they have it for RAM chips?!


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 25, 2007)

erocker said:


> Hey!  I'm wondering what people are getting for 3dMark06 scores with thier x1950 AGP cards.
> 
> Here's mine:



Nice score considering 3dmark06 is HEAVILY CPU dependant


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 25, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> Grab some double side thermal tape, like the stuff that comes pre-installed on RAMsinks.
> BTW, do you have a link for that backplate you ordered for the VRMs?  Is is shorter than a RAMsink?  I'm thinking about getting something to cool my PULSE chips......
> Thermal tape link:
> http://www.thermaflo.com/ifmat_tape.shtml
> ...



I know about thermal tape, obviously that stuff is decent and hard to obtain. Shin-Etsu is wayyyy better.
Thermal tape by all means is never capacitive FYI, why do they have it for RAM chips?!



http://vizo.com.tw/index.php?main_page=vizo_product_info&products_id=31&tab=1

Get these, the plate will not fit on the HIS IceQIII, its only meant for acceleroX2 + X1950PRO (non-palit). Then you will have spares to cool other mofsets, etc. Btw, get the DDR400 variant and not the DDR2.


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 25, 2007)

> While it is not electrically conductive, the compound is very slightly capacitive and could potentially cause problems if it bridges two close-proximity electrical paths.)



From Arctic's website on AS5
http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm
I'm a junior level electrical engineering student, so you don't have to explain capacitance to me


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 25, 2007)

...oh geez.... AS5 is silver-based, thus there would be SOME potential to be capacitive. Ceramic thermal pastes prevent any conduction and thermal pads/tape/epoxy usually prevent any capacitive characteristics (unless you are talking about special purpose types).


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 25, 2007)

Yea I know the tape isn't capacitive or electrically conductive, only thermally.  I thought you mentioned using some ceramic based stuff earlier, and I've always read that any thermal compound is risky on IC chips.  It's better to use tape on IC chips, compound on cores.

Anyhow, I think it's gonna be a tight fit if I do decide to sink these PULSE chips.  Look how close they are to the fan!  I may be able to get an old CPU heatsink and take it to a machine shop.  This way they can trim it down to clear the fan.  I really don't know of any RAMsinks that will fit under that clearance.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 25, 2007)

Which faggotised bastard just one-starred our thread and 5 starred the others?!!! :shadedshu, doing that doesn't make you have a big e-penis you wanker/tosser.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 25, 2007)

Um Binormalkilla, the SLEET VIZO heatsinks I recommended will not fit D=. Try to get copper heatsinks that have the fin broadside 90* away from the fan. Alu is fine, but at that size not really great.

EDIT: If some mod walks past, edit the title, adding [X1950 series support] to it. Sticky pl0x


----------



## Zubasa (Feb 25, 2007)

I guess [X1950 Series Clubhouse & Support] will be better. lol


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 25, 2007)

> doing that doesn't make you have a big e-penis you wanker/tosser.


ROFLMAO


----------



## leopr (Feb 25, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> They aren't over the VRM modules. Its better to cool them than let them burn. @125 degrees they will be likely to malfunction



So which are the VRM modules ? i thought they were under those black ceramic heat spreaders.


----------



## technicks (Feb 25, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Will double-sided tape conduct heat?



Yes it will, but you have to get it as thin as possible.

I bought some for 50 cents and it works just as good as the stuff they sell at your pc store.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 25, 2007)

Heatsink the two Pulse/VTEC chips.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 25, 2007)

leopr said:


> So which are the VRM modules ? i thought they were under those black ceramic heat spreaders.



Honestly, on the powercolor model, they seem concealed or aren't cooled. Apart from that the VTEC and PULSE chips get too hot for my liking.


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 26, 2007)

I don't think that I'm going to bother sinking the PULSE chips because they don't get very hot on mine.  I touched them after a run on the artifact scanner and they don't get that hot.  I still want to see exactly how hot they are while scanning so I'm gonna try to get an infrared thermometer.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 26, 2007)

I was thinking that too. The VRMs on the X1950PRO Powercolor are heatsinked by two ceramic black plates... HOWEVER they aren't sufficient. People who switch from stock to VF900CU are going to get an unpleasant surprise. There is no heatsink!!!


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 26, 2007)

UPDATE:


> 26/2/07
> 
> *URGENT TO PEOPLE USING X1950PRO WHO WISH TO SWITCH TO A VF900CU*
> 
> ...



DO NOT INSTALL THE VF900 CU WITHOUT HEATSINKING THE VRMS. THIS MAKES THE VF900CU BAD BECAUSE THEY DID NOT THINK ABOUT SUPPORT FOR X1950PRO.


----------



## binormalkilla (Feb 26, 2007)

Yea LOL I installed a VF900 on my Sapphire and it had black screens even in the CCC preview!  I'm not getting rid of my Arctic IceQ3 cooler though, because it's great.


----------



## Zalmann (Feb 26, 2007)

I guess I must be lucky with my Gigabyte GV-RX195P256D-RH, X1950 Pro. I don't have the same problems as others do on this thread with VRM's overheating. My VC uses discrete components (ie mosfets) instead of integrated VR modules. Using PWM power circuitry is more efficient than using voltage regulators. These surface mount MOSFETS are mounted and soldered onto the circuit-board which acts as a heatsink.

With this VC, Gigabyte decided not to go with the reference ATI design and designed their own PCB.

A top view with my VF900-CU





From the back, you can clearly see the mosfets and the solid state, low ESR capacitors and the inductors which make up the power circuitry. No VRM's here.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 26, 2007)

Yes indeed. But no voltage control is possible.
Damn... I should have went one day earlier to buy the Gigabyte one... but they were sold out the day I went... so I had to settle for this one.
The gigabyte will be VERY EASY to volt mod.


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 26, 2007)

Aint got no problems with my sapphire, I have the vgpu @ 1.45v aswel, may even try for 1.5v, the vrm's are fine also and my cooling is... Sweeeeeeet


----------



## Zalmann (Feb 26, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Yes indeed. But no voltage control is possible.
> Damn... I should have went one day earlier to buy the Gigabyte one... but they were sold out the day I went... so I had to settle for this one.
> The gigabyte will be VERY EASY to volt mod.



The Gigabyte unit works really well so far. I've replaced the stock VF700-AlCu with a VF900-CU, and it runs cooler and I can clock it higher.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 26, 2007)

Alcpone said:


> Aint got no problems with my sapphire, I have the vgpu @ 1.45v aswel, may even try for 1.5v, the vrm's are fine also and my cooling is... Sweeeeeeet



Thats because you got stock. At this point AcceleroX2 is better than VF900CU for VRM PCB Brands.


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 26, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Thats because you got stock. At this point AcceleroX2 is better than VF900CU for VRM PCB Brands.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 26, 2007)

Look VRMs on most X1950PROs are cooled by the stock cooler, once removed you also remove cooling for the VRMS, Sapphire are willing to accept RMAs because of this. The AcceleroX2 now comes with the VRM cooler while the VF900CU doesnt... you will need to buy a seperate kit of heatsinks. Making the price not worth it.


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 26, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Look VRMs on most X1950PROs are cooled by the stock cooler, once removed you also remove cooling for the VRMS, Sapphire are willing to accept RMAs because of this. The AcceleroX2 now comes with the VRM cooler while the VF900CU doesnt... you will need to buy a seperate kit of heatsinks. Making the price not worth it.



And that has what to do with me?


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 26, 2007)

Everything. If you want to change coolers consider what I posted.


----------



## Alcpone (Feb 26, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Everything. If you want to change coolers consider what I posted.



Your trippin lol

Why would I want to change coolers?


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 26, 2007)

whoops lol... just get heatsinks for the VRMs to be safe...


----------



## Zalmann (Feb 26, 2007)

The Acellero X2 doesn't cool the VRM's. But the Zalman VF900 does, that's if your card uses VRMs and is based on the reference design.


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 26, 2007)

The "New" Acellero cools the VRM's


They updated it


----------



## Zalmann (Feb 26, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> The "New" Acellero cools the VRM's
> 
> 
> They updated it



The "New", is that a slight variation from the current X2?


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 26, 2007)

I think its the same thing with a backplate for the VRM's...TK will know for sure

I think Its the Powercolor X2 tho, not the actual AC


----------



## Zalmann (Feb 26, 2007)

Ok. I'll be interested to know if there are differences between the X2 (retail version) and the Powercolor version.


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 26, 2007)

Ive been told they got a different heatpipe arrangement/design


----------



## Zalmann (Feb 26, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> Ive been told they got a different heatpipe arrangement/design



I remember reading something on it, stating 3 heatpipes, and someone mentioning that it had 6 heatpipes??


----------



## Pinchy (Feb 26, 2007)

All i know is that they are different...dont know how though


----------



## Zalmann (Feb 26, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> All i know is that they are different...dont know how though



I guess TK will enlighten us when he's back on-line. He's the X2 fanboi.


----------



## binormalkilla (Mar 1, 2007)

Ok quick question for you guys:
On another forum a guy made a comment about the VRMs.  He said that the VRMs look naked on my card, but I thought that this card used PWMs and VRMs (looks like the kind on a motherboard)
anyhow he said that it's the vertical line of small chips that run the entire length of the card on the right side, here is a pic:





There is one exposed VRM/PWM at the  top right of my card
and here is a pic of the X1950XT, which has these chips sinked:




And there is two VRMs/PWMs at the right side (pic bottom) of this card.
So is this correct?  I can't take my heatsink off and check until I get back to my apartment, because I'm at my parents and my AS5 thermal paste isn't here.   

So.............let me know what you think/know!
Thanks


----------



## Namslas90 (Mar 1, 2007)

The 'heat sinked' row are the Vrm's, the other row closer to cooler body are power mosfest.  Good Idea to place ramsinks on the power mosfest, as it will cool down the entire card.


----------



## binormalkilla (Mar 1, 2007)

I wonder then:  why the hell didn't HIS extend that memory heatsink just a little?  Either that, or install that cheap little heatsink that resides on the X1950XT?

I'm going the assumption that the IceQ3 cooler doesn't make contact with the VRMs.  I can't take it off right now, so I guess I'll have to wait and see.


----------



## DOM (Mar 1, 2007)

well heres a Pic of the HIS Radeon X1950XT IceQ3 Turbo with the cooler and HS for the MEM off http://forums.techpowerup.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5251&d=1167142487


----------



## binormalkilla (Mar 1, 2007)

Awesome, great pic!  That really sheds some light on things.  I cropped the image and resized to highlight the VRMs here:






It looks to me like the are the same; the digital VRMs aren't heatsinked......I don't know what those chips are to the left of the heatsink though.


----------



## Pinchy (Mar 1, 2007)

I just got a VRM plate for my X1950 PRO (arrived in mail today)

I thought the VRM's were the VRAMS (Video RAM) 

Anyways, i put it on and loaded up CS:Source and played for about 30 mins. After closing CS and leaving the comp for like a minute or so, i opened the case and touched the plate. IT WAS HOOOOT!!! If i would have left my finger on it, i would have a nice burnt finger 

ill post a pic of it when i can be bothered opening my case, taking the GPU out and so forth


----------



## binormalkilla (Mar 1, 2007)

Well I emailed HIS and they confirmed that I do in fact have a heatsink on the VRMs.  I'm going to go to the hardware store tonight and buy an infrared thermometer, provided they aren't too expensive.  Hell, I'm probably going to take it back anyhow!  ROFL.


----------



## freeboy (Mar 1, 2007)

My Hia x1950proc ice3 looks very different, well I guess they are. Looks like y9ou are returning yours... must not have skimed up enough, why?
My card runs super cool and other than being a 256 card I find it a good balence of exceptional performance /cost.. good luck.


----------



## binormalkilla (Mar 2, 2007)

Hey guys I have a cracked version of ATI Tool .exe file that allows adjustment of timings for our cards.  Several guys at XtremeSystems forums got better timings working with the X1950 Pro.  Here is the link where I hosted the file.  
http://www.sharebigfile.com/file/97727/ATITool-patched-rar.html
All you have to do is delete the .exe file in the ATI Tool directory, then unRAR the cracked file.  
If any HIS guys try this let me know as I'm working on it tonight, along with another guy at Overclock.net


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 2, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> Well I emailed HIS and they confirmed that I do in fact have a heatsink on the VRMs.  I'm going to go to the hardware store tonight and buy an infrared thermometer, provided they aren't too expensive.  Hell, I'm probably going to take it back anyhow!  ROFL.



The VRM issue only arises once you install the VF900CU on the X1950PRO with the reference/single piece cooler.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 2, 2007)

What OCs have you guys got with the X1950PRO? My one barely overclocks T_T...


----------



## SpookyWillow (Mar 2, 2007)

i'm currently running at 662/817.

highest bench clocks so far are 675/823.5 for 3dmark05 - 11039   3rd highest score posted with an X2 and single x1950pro

and 668/810 for 3dmark06  5448  top score for an amd cpu and single X1950pro



edit,   just tweaked the cards mem timings a little and i just took the tops spot on 3dmark05 with slightly lower mem clocks too @ 668/817,  *11,122* http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=2747070

just ran 3dmar06 again @ 675/817 with tweaked Vram timings 

* 5598* http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=1353675

so now i have the highest posted scores on both 3dmark05 and 06 for an amd cpu and a single X1950pro


----------



## bundlebr (Mar 3, 2007)

*How to overclock Sapphire X1950 Pro?*

Guys,

Can you help me with ovrclocking my card? The best I can squeeze from it so far is 607.5/702, and that's not very stable.
BTW, replaced stock cooler with Thermalright's: silent fanless cooling with much lower temps than with stock!

BB


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 3, 2007)

> 26/2/07
> 
> *URGENT TO PEOPLE USING X1950PRO WHO WISH TO SWITCH TO A VF900CU*
> 
> ...



Yep... read this, it also applies for the thermalright, I know your problem. Don't use your GPU until you get heatsinks for those chips.


----------



## Zubasa (Mar 3, 2007)

That stock cooler looks 100% like the sapphire.


----------



## Pinchy (Mar 3, 2007)

That SLi plate from ebay works a charm. Recommended to all by me!


----------



## bundlebr (Mar 3, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Yep... read this, it also applies for the thermalright, I know your problem. Don't use your GPU until you get heatsinks for those chips.



Yeah, I've already read some stuff that you've discussed earlier, and attached heatsinks there... The temp reading doesn't cross 56C now, but still cannot overclock it...


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 3, 2007)

Try showing me a photo of it. What brand is it?

Try reseating it as well.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 3, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> That SLi plate from ebay works a charm. Recommended to all by me!



Your mean VRM LOL.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 3, 2007)

GOING OFF TOPIC:




(PC was on btw, gg)

I had to switch back to stock just in case the CNPS7700CU ripped the whole motherboard off the case (Like ketxxx, this one's heavier).

I reckon it looks much neater without the CNPS7700CU, I might reinstall it if I need to OC. Its damn quiet. Though my NB and RAM aren't cooled that much though, the CPU cooling remains the same with the stock shinetsu thermal paste. The NB is fairing at 50*C.

If Zalman sends me the clips for the ZM-N47(something like that) northbridge I will switch back though), before switching it was a pain in the neck just to get the cables organized. I might invest in a thermalright NB cooler.

EDIT: Did TPU just crash?


----------



## SpookyWillow (Mar 3, 2007)

TPU has been playing up since late last night


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 3, 2007)

lol... do intel coolers have to be seasoned? It seems like it because the RPMs are getting higher and higher.. w00t. It was 2.5k three hours, then 2.7 now 2.9k.


----------



## Ling-ling (Mar 3, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> lol... do intel coolers have to be seasoned? It seems like it because the RPMs are getting higher and higher.. w00t. It was 2.5k three hours, then 2.7 now 2.9k.



Seasoning with a bit of salt and peper is all that is required.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 3, 2007)

Seasoning of bearings:

Deliberate running of apparatus to make sure bearings are smooth; basically bearing sanding you could call it.

The RPM is getting higher and the noise is getting less.


----------



## Ling-ling (Mar 3, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Seasoning of bearings:
> 
> Deliberate running of apparatus to make sure bearings are smooth; basically bearing sanding you could call it.
> 
> The RPM is getting higher and the noise is getting less.



And a little salt and peppa make it go betta


----------



## bundlebr (Mar 3, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Try showing me a photo of it. What brand is it?
> 
> Try reseating it as well.



Here are the pix: Sapphire X1950 Pro with Thermalright cooler and extra heatsinks.

What did you mean - reseating - the card, or the cooler, or...


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 3, 2007)

Whoever it is, Stop 1 starring this thread. If you are caught, you will be reported.

Bundlebr, I meant, try remounting the cooler again. By the looks of it it looks fine. Install the 92mm fan and see the results.

If you want to check again, take the card out and check where the heatsinks are mounted, show me a photo as well (don't have to).


----------



## bundlebr (Mar 3, 2007)

Will do and update...
Was thinking about modded bios for better overclocking... Is there any for Sapphire X1950 PRO?


----------



## binormalkilla (Mar 4, 2007)

> Whoever it is, Stop 1 starring this thread. If you are caught, you will be reported.



ROFL I wouldn't worry about it dude, it's just one jerk.  Anyone with an ounce of logic can see the size of the thread and know it's full of info on these cards.

BundleBR, that's a sweet cooler you have there.  What kind of temps are you getting with that?

It would be really easy to zip-tie a case fan on that, like a Silverstone FM121 @ 110 CFM.  I have one as an intake in my 5.25" drive bay and they really move some air.  If you installed it on the bottom facing upward you could cool your mobo and CPU a little.


----------



## paddel (Mar 4, 2007)

Hi Guys,

i have some question about the Gecube X1950XT AGP! 
I didn't understand why I can see under Hardware information only GPU Rate of 500 and Memory Rate of 594!!!! The manufacture said 625 MHZ Core Speed and 700 Memory. I have unlocked the overdrive, why I thought that the right rates will be done...it isn't. 

Guys see the Picture below...that is Overdrive an here you will see the taktrates...please help me!!


----------



## DOM (Mar 4, 2007)

paddel said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> i have some question about the Gecube X1950XT AGP!
> I didn't understand why I can see under Hardware information only GPU Rate of 500 and Memory Rate of 594!!!! The manufacture said 625 MHZ Core Speed and 700 Memory. I have unlocked the overdrive, why I thought that the right rates will be done...it isn't.
> ...



there the 2d clocks, see where it says requested thats your 3d clocks


----------



## paddel (Mar 4, 2007)

?....you mean only during the 3d run I will have the requsted rates..right?


----------



## DOM (Mar 4, 2007)

paddel said:


> ?....you mean only during the 3d run I will have the requsted rates..right?



yes sir  648/702


----------



## paddel (Mar 4, 2007)

mmm many thanks for your Help, but once I didn't understand too..in 3DMark06 I see only the GPU rates of 500 and Memory only 594......it is confusing, because my old X850XT shows only one taktrate in all Systeminformation!

Is it normal that the screen is flickering sometimes....or is my poweradapter to soft?? I have a poweradapter with 420 Watt!


----------



## DOM (Mar 4, 2007)

paddel said:


> mmm many thanks for your Help, but once I didn't understand too..in 3DMark06 I see only the GPU rates of 500 and Memory only 594......it is confusing, because my old X850XT shows only one taktrate in all Systeminformation!



yea mine shows 2d speeds just open 3DMark and open CCC and look at your speeds they should be at 3d speeds

well mine does it sometimes ppl say it doesnt with 6.12CCC but I never tryed it

and idk about the PSU do you know the specs


----------



## binormalkilla (Mar 4, 2007)

I would highly suggest using either ATI Tray Tools or Rivatuner for overclocking our cards (mainly memory) because Overdrive caused lower 3dmark scores for me when I had my Sapphire, as well as several other X1950 Pro users in this thread:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=121382
This thread started around when these cards were first released, and has some really good documented OCing for the cards.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 4, 2007)

Hmm... how do I remove the ceramic heatsinks?


----------



## DOM (Mar 4, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> I would highly suggest using either ATI Tray Tools or Rivatuner for overclocking our cards (mainly memory) because Overdrive caused lower 3dmark scores for me when I had my Sapphire, as well as several other X1950 Pro users in this thread:
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=121382
> This thread started around when these cards were first released, and has some really good documented OCing for the cards.



are you talking to paddel cuz he gots a  Gecube X1950XT AGP


----------



## bundlebr (Mar 4, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> ROFL I wouldn't worry about it dude, it's just one jerk.  Anyone with an ounce of logic can see the size of the thread and know it's full of info on these cards.
> 
> BundleBR, that's a sweet cooler you have there.  What kind of temps are you getting with that?
> 
> It would be really easy to zip-tie a case fan on that, like a Silverstone FM121 @ 110 CFM.  I have one as an intake in my 5.25" drive bay and they really move some air.  If you installed it on the bottom facing upward you could cool your mobo and CPU a little.



During day it runs idle at 36-37C and with ATITool artifact scan at 55 C after 20 min. At night it's 2-3 deg. cooler. I've already got Antec silent 92-mm fan, will try soon...
Anyway, I believe that the OC capability of this card is limited by bios rather than by cooling. With stock cooler it ran during artifact scan up to 78 C. Now, with Thermalright and heatsinks stuck to everywhere, it's much cooler, but I still cannot overclock it decently, yet....


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 4, 2007)

*Going Off Topic:*



> GOING OFF TOPIC:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So what do you guys think about this?!!







and how the hell do I remove these ceramic heatsinks? I need to use the VRM Plate



bundlebr said:


> During day it runs idle at 36-37C and with ATITool artifact scan at 55 C after 20 min. At night it's 2-3 deg. cooler. I've already got Antec silent 92-mm fan, will try soon...
> Anyway, I believe that the OC capability of this card is limited by bios rather than by cooling. With stock cooler it ran during artifact scan up to 78 C. Now, with Thermalright and heatsinks stuck to everywhere, it's much cooler, but I still cannot overclock it decently, yet....



Driver and Bios are to blame for this, so is the fact that there is no control over voltages yet (except for bios flashing). Apparently the X1950PRO is a volt-hungry GPU.


----------



## binormalkilla (Mar 4, 2007)

I'm a bit confused as how the CPU cooler ripped the motherboard from the case.  On my motherboard I have about 10 screws that go into brass studs, which screw into the holes, so there is no way in hell that it's coming loose.  I'm unfamiliar with c2d motherboards, but if you aren't using studs/screws then I would suggest doing so?
I have a friend with that cooler for an AMD and he loves it, so I would try to remount it again, and re-evaluate your motherboard fastening technique.  If you are using studs/screws, then maybe you missed one or two?


----------



## bundlebr (Mar 4, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> So what do you guys think about this?!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




== From your pix it's not clear how they are attached to. Usually, heatsinks are glued to ICs with various Acrylic compounds by 3M, like 9890 or 8xxx series. Most of them would break down at ~100C, question, if your Si and plastic shell underneath would die faster. Chlorine bleach should be good, but it'll corrode all metal parts faster  Prying those with a knife blade might be safest... ==


Yeah, I realize this... How can I get the best drivers and modded bios? Really?!


----------



## anticlutch (Mar 4, 2007)

Hm.. I've just noticed this but how are you supposed to CF 2 PowerColor x1950pro's? Wouldn't the massive fan get in the way?


----------



## bundlebr (Mar 4, 2007)

anticlutch said:


> Hm.. I've just noticed this but how are you supposed to CF 2 PowerColor x1950pro's? Wouldn't the massive fan get in the way?



ASUS mobos, like mine P5W DH Deluxe, got plenty of room between PCIe slots.


----------



## anticlutch (Mar 4, 2007)

No, I meant that the fan's heatsink would get in the way... like the CF bridge on the left would work but the other CF bridge wouldn't work unless you had a flexible connector. 


I probably just made no sense whatsoever so just disregard my comments


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 4, 2007)

anticlutch said:


> No, I meant that the fan's heatsink would get in the way... like the CF bridge on the left would work but the other CF bridge wouldn't work unless you had a flexible connector.
> 
> 
> I probably just made no sense whatsoever so just disregard my comments



All the connectors are flexible and the AcceleroX2 doesnt get in the way .
It seems like noone buys the reference edition of the X1950PRO.

and look at what I posted... how do I remove the heatsink?


----------



## bundlebr (Mar 4, 2007)

anticlutch said:


> No, I meant that the fan's heatsink would get in the way... like the CF bridge on the left would work but the other CF bridge wouldn't work unless you had a flexible connector.
> 
> 
> I probably just made no sense whatsoever so just disregard my comments




That's my fault, cuz still thinking, if it's worse to buy second X1950 Pro, or wait for RV630...
Thus, no experience with CF


----------



## anticlutch (Mar 4, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> All the connectors are flexible and the AcceleroX2 doesnt get in the way .
> It seems like noone buys the reference edition of the X1950PRO.
> 
> and look at what I posted... how do I remove the heatsink?



Nope... some cards ship with the non-flexible bridge (mine came with 2 flexible ones though  )

Have you tried using Arcticlean? That stuff works wonders... once, it removed my friend's thermal paste that was like superglue. The stuff was so hard that when i tried to pull the heatsink away from the mobo it pulled the cpu with it (was a skt 478, so there wasn't any damage to the CPU)... and when we tried using alcohol to get it off it wouldn't budge. So we went and bought the Arcticlean and in less than 1 min it popped off cleanly.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 4, 2007)

Nah... this is epoxy I am talking about. I want the plate because there is more surface area to dissipate heat, the ceramic heatsinks on the VRMs aren't sufficient although they transfer heat quicker; too small to be effective.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 4, 2007)

anticlutch said:


> Nope... some cards ship with the non-flexible bridge (mine came with 2 flexible ones though  )
> 
> Have you tried using Arcticlean? That stuff works wonders... once, it removed my friend's thermal paste that was like superglue. The stuff was so hard that when i tried to pull the heatsink away from the mobo it pulled the cpu with it (was a skt 478, so there wasn't any damage to the CPU)... and when we tried using alcohol to get it off it wouldn't budge. So we went and bought the Arcticlean and in less than 1 min it popped off cleanly.



I'm talking about BGA soldered VRM units here. Does Arctic clean corrode PCB and components? Epoxy on a VRM chip dude, not suction-happy thermal paste (like my AS5.. weirdly enough after few weeks this "suction hapiness" disappeared).


bundlebr said:


> That's my fault, cuz still thinking, if it's worse to buy second X1950 Pro, or wait for RV630...
> Thus, no experience with CF



The new crossfire nearly doubles performance . Thats why I might buy another one soon.


----------



## bundlebr (Mar 4, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> I'm talking about BGA soldered VRM units here. Does Arctic clean corrode PCB and components? Epoxy on a VRM chip dude, not suction-happy thermal paste (like my AS5.. weirdly enough after few weeks this "suction hapiness" disappeared).
> 
> 
> The new crossfire nearly doubles performance . Thats why I might buy another one soon.



Don't think that's epoxy (thermal conductivity sucks), but rather Acrylic (might be with Alumina filler for thermal conductivity). Acrylic should be easier removed. Try Glue Remover first, or some other organic dilutants. Personally, if it's that hard to remove, I'd stick a Copper heatsink on top of it.

So, no bios mods for X1950 Pro?


----------



## binormalkilla (Mar 4, 2007)

> How can I get the best drivers


I've tested several drivers with the X1950 Pro, including the Warcats, Omegas, and standard Catalysts, and the Warcats are the best IMO.  
I'm currently running the Warcat 7.2s, and they can be found here:
http://www.tweaksrus.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=158&Itemid=41/


----------



## bundlebr (Mar 4, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> I'm currently running the Warcat 7.2s, and they can be found here:
> http://www.tweaksrus.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=158&Itemid=41/



Thanx, downloading them right now!


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 4, 2007)

...I used to to root for Warcat Drivers... but now I won't touch them with a 10 foot pole for a while.


----------



## bundlebr (Mar 4, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> ...I used to to root for Warcat Drivers... but now I won't touch them with a 10 foot pole for a while.



Can you tell me, why?


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 4, 2007)

7.2 will screw up some games.


----------



## SpookyWillow (Mar 4, 2007)

anyone not able to play bf2142 with the 7.2's?  i nstalled them last night cos my 7.1's got screwed and now i just crash to desktop after the splash screen.

was fine on the 7.1's unless its something else that broke it


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 4, 2007)

Switch back to the 6.xx drivers (CD), they do MUCH better.


----------



## Zubasa (Mar 4, 2007)

SpookyWillow said:


> anyone not able to play bf2142 with the 7.2's?  i nstalled them last night cos my 7.1's got screwed and now i just crash to desktop after the splash screen.
> 
> was fine on the 7.1's unless its something else that broke it


I am playing BF2142 with CCC7.2 and actually gain a frame or 2 from it


----------



## SpookyWillow (Mar 4, 2007)

well this is the error when i try and run bf2142, i've googled it but theres no fixes 



> The description for Event ID ( 0 ) in Source (   ) cannot be found. The local computer may not have the necessary registry information or message DLL files to display messages from a remote computer. You may be able to use the /AUXSOURCE= flag to retrieve this description; see Help and Support for details. The following information is part of the event: 7.


----------



## binormalkilla (Mar 4, 2007)

SpookyWillow said:


> anyone not able to play bf2142 with the 7.2's?  i nstalled them last night cos my 7.1's got screwed and now i just crash to desktop after the splash screen.
> 
> was fine on the 7.1's unless its something else that broke it



The 7.2s (ATI or Warcat) made my graphics look really poor in BF2142.  It had something to do with the original design of the new Catalyst CCC I assume, because the Warcat is merely a tweaked standard ATI driver, with added game optimizations for image quality performance.  
I would just stick with the Warcat 7.1 driver for now, until the 7.3 Catalysts/Warcats arrive. 
I don't know why tkpenalty hates the Warcats, because they are the best drivers for our cards ATM when concerning performance and image quality.  I've tried and benched the standard Catalysts, Omegas (suck for our card IMO, performance wise), Warcats, and the NGOs (second best.)


----------



## binormalkilla (Mar 4, 2007)

SpookyWillow said:


> well this is the error when i try and run bf2142, i've googled it but theres no fixes



I've seen that error before, but I'm not sure where.  Do the following:
download RegSupreme Pro (trial or whatever you can "acquire")
repair you .net framework in the way I told u in that PM
download driver cleaner pro from Guru3d.com
download the Warcat 7.1 (link in that PM)
Install the apps
ok now
use the ATI software uninstall utility in the add/remove progs menu
reboot, then press F8 to enter safe mode
run driver cleaner pro in safe mode, and run all of the ATI cleaners
run regsupreme pro aggressive scan
right click the results (there will be a lot), select all, the click the "fix" button
create a backup named whatever
reboot normally
install the Warcat 7.1 driver.  This will install the "TRU installer" software, then it will install the driver set

If this still doesn't work, then uninstall BF2142, run regsupreme again, then install, then patch.


----------



## binormalkilla (Mar 5, 2007)

Ok here is the cracked ATI Tool .exe file, as the link I posted earlier is dead 
Let me know if the posted timings work, or if anything different works for you. 
http://www.filefactory.com/file/6813a0/


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 5, 2007)

Does it actually work?

EDIT: Stop one starring, I will ask W1zzard to look at the voters, if you are caught one-starring my thread and five-starring all the others (Malicious voting), see ya later.


----------



## binormalkilla (Mar 5, 2007)

Yea it works.  Several people have made those timings work, and reported increase in performance at XtremeSystems forums.  I tried those timings last year when I first got the card, but I had some issues.  I haven't worked on them recently, but I will here in the next few days.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 5, 2007)

My X1950PRO has way different timings lol...


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 6, 2007)

Basically, does ATT work on X1950PROs? It works on X1950GTs... so I am assuming ATT will work on the X1950PRO.


----------



## sneekypeet (Mar 6, 2007)

yes i can OC with it!
gotta check the box for driver level OC tho!


Check specs
<<<<<<<



http://img.techpowerup.org/070305/ATT.jpg


----------



## binormalkilla (Mar 6, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Basically, does ATT work on X1950PROs? It works on X1950GTs... so I am assuming ATT will work on the X1950PRO.



Yea it works.  I have the latest beta version running, and I use driver level overclocking for memory and core, and I'm at 661.5/810 MHz %100 stable.

SneakyPeet-
Did you perform the core or memory voltmod (if there is a memory).  BIOS Vmod or physical?
The reason I ask is because most people are getting a max of 627 on the Powercolor X1950s on stock voltage.  
I'm going to try the BIOS volt mod that Ketxxx is hooking up.  I can set my clocks to 668, but my screen goes black after 5 minutes or so of artifact scanning.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 7, 2007)

^Same here...


----------



## madmike (Mar 7, 2007)

quick one... anyone had problems with the x1950pro 512mb pci-e on certain monitors, after u install the ati drivers when the windows xp log on screen is about to show the monitor just shoots to standby??


----------



## Alcpone (Mar 7, 2007)

madmike said:


> quick one... anyone had problems with the x1950pro 512mb pci-e on certain monitors, after u install the ati drivers when the windows xp log on screen is about to show the monitor just shoots to standby??



Start in safe mode, check your res settings, just means the monitor cant handle the max setting which it is set to after the driver is installed


----------



## Ketxxx (Mar 8, 2007)

Bump. This thread really should be stickied. Got more than enough posts \ views.


----------



## anticlutch (Mar 8, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> Bump. This thread really should be stickied. Got more than enough posts \ views.



Seconded.


----------



## Ketxxx (Mar 8, 2007)

I'll now 3rd it  but seriously, thers a lot of info in here thats useful, combined with my X1950Pro thread its pretty much the ultimate resource for all 1950 series owners.


----------



## Zubasa (Mar 8, 2007)

Forthed


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 8, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> I'll now 3rd it  but seriously, thers a lot of info in here thats useful, combined with my X1950Pro thread its pretty much the ultimate resource for all 1950 series owners.



Merge threads? I'll post you as second-in command LOL


----------



## Ketxxx (Mar 8, 2007)

Sweet, 2nd in command will do me


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 8, 2007)

On the database Ketxxx, you control the Bios modding content!

Funny thing is that I can't get the AcceleroX2 off my X1950PRO... So much suction, I don't want to damage the fragile BGA mounts.



Here is the new database, don't post in it! It contains the information posted by you guys.
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread=1#post282581... shortened url dammit!!!
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?p=282583#post282583


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## tkpenalty (Mar 8, 2007)

Okay this isnt fucking funny anymore, some fag keeps five starring every thread posted here and one starring this thread. Seriously, get a life whoever you are becasue you know who you are, bloody fucking cowards.

(Mods let this one pass, you guys can't do anything about the voting thing >_>).


----------



## Alcpone (Mar 8, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Okay this isnt fucking funny anymore, some fag keeps five starring every thread posted here and one starring this thread. Seriously, get a life whoever you are becasue you know who you are, bloody fucking cowards.
> 
> (Mods let this one pass, you guys can't do anything about the voting thing >_>).



The people that know this thread is informative and useful know it is, whoever it is? That is 1 staring is trying to get a rise out of you and it looks like its working, maybe it is someone that you have had a difference of opinion with, im sure the mods or w1zzard can see who it is from the records!


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 8, 2007)

TK, I am an NVidia owner and as you know I visit the thread quite often just to learn a bit more and find it useful as I like to know about everything hardware, not just what I have got so IMO best to ignore the monkey(s), the more you get pissed the more you fuel their childish (but in their eyes amusing I am sure) reason for continuing doing it.


----------



## Frick (Mar 8, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Okay this isnt fucking funny anymore, some fag keeps five starring every thread posted here and one starring this thread. Seriously, get a life whoever you are becasue you know who you are, bloody fucking cowards.
> 
> (Mods let this one pass, you guys can't do anything about the voting thing >_>).



What, anyone actually cares about those stars? Interesting.


----------



## dashsmashed (Mar 8, 2007)

hey all...

just spent a few hours reading this thread ... phew lotta info !!! good job all !!

i have an AGP 512 sapphire which I have replaced the stock cooler with an X2.. and the VRM attachment - word of warning....

i had to buy it from Artic's fleabay shop and they shipped it from Hongkong.. 

cost an extra £5(ish).. I was none to chuffed to discover it doesnt fit... the thermal pads wont line up unless you chop a chunk out of one of the corners :shadedshu ... not sure if this is just an AGP issue.. 

nonetheless I did the necessary mod and it's now attached and i stuck an extra heatsink on top of it to be sure.. my temps now never go above 50c (good) and i have an ok o/c 631/749 with no issues...

I still think this should go higher but i cant get it stable.. it's weird.. the crash behaves in exactly the same way as before I replaced the cooler and tried to o/c...runs for a bit then freezes for a couple of seconds and then the picture "bleeds" off the screen ... monitor goes into standby and a reset is required to resume normal operations  



ps... wish i'd known the tip about reseting the res at new install earlier... cost me 2 weeks of  stanby heartache and tried 2 new PSU's before I discovered a workaround for my old Visionmaster 400 !! lol  (have now replaced with a nice Hanns-g 19 wide)
_
come to think about it, when i did get it working I had the res set to an acceptable level and had the same problem... only solution for me was to wait till pc had fully booted...then switch it on _


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 9, 2007)

It is. 

The crashes are caused by the lack of voltages, go to Ketxxx's bios modding thread to find more info.


----------



## dashsmashed (Mar 9, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> It is.
> 
> The crashes are caused by the lack of voltages, go to Ketxxx's bios modding thread to find more info.



No sapphire AGP there yet...  I dunno if its even got a voltage table yet (fingers crossed)


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 10, 2007)

It does, at those clocks you would need a small voltage boost to keep it stable. 

(Its someone from the Nvidia club for sure)


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 10, 2007)

w00t new location. K.. um, this clubhouse is supposed to be for support though.

Guys any ideas on how to remove my AcceleroX2 from my X1950PRO without tearing off the BGA mounted ram modules?


----------



## Alcpone (Mar 10, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> w00t new location. K.. um, this clubhouse is supposed to be for support though.
> 
> Guys any ideas on how to remove my AcceleroX2 from my X1950PRO without tearing off the BGA mounted ram modules?



The modules will go back on, I have had mine on and off about 4 times lol, guess that is what will happen if they have to come off to get your fan off? I dont know how yours looks?


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 10, 2007)

^BGA = ball grid array = a pain to resolder on ICs = fragile

The RAM thermal pads are stuck on via suction, if I pull to much the whole IC can be torn off.


----------



## Alcpone (Mar 10, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> ^BGA = ball grid array = a pain to resolder on ICs = fragile
> 
> The RAM thermal pads are stuck on via suction, if I pull to much the whole IC can be torn off.



Ohh I see lol

What clocks do you get out of it?


----------



## Ling-ling (Mar 10, 2007)

Use a small jewellers screwdriver or art-knife, just try to wedge it between the ramsink and the chip, and gently twist to try and lift the corner of the heatsink. Once you have slightly lifted it, you can then use a slightly larger screwdriver to lift it higher and remove it using your fingers. I've done this several times myself.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 10, 2007)

Thanks 

how did you get such a big siggy?


----------



## Ling-ling (Mar 10, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Thanks
> 
> how did you get such a big siggy?



I use a link to a picture hosted by imageshack


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 10, 2007)

This card refuses to overclock...

621/something goes here that likes artifacting


----------



## erocker (Mar 11, 2007)

Hey Tk, Ketxxx was saying something like we can't OC our cards because the BIOS doesn't let you.  I'm curious to see how well your card works with your cooler.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 11, 2007)

Doesn't matter what cooler you are using, water cooling, etc, you will never go past 621mhz without needing to push the voltages (HIS are "prepushed").

This card barely overclocks T_T.....not that I need to .

The cooler surely keeps this card cool but its limited by the voltage factor. Imho this is the most bizzare card I've come across to overclock, with ATT going 900 clock speed is "perfect". NONE of the programs do it properly atm, its like rather than using cement barricades to prevent cars from crashing, you are using wet ricepaper instead.

W1zzard... hurry... i am in need of a properly overclockable/voltage controllable X1950PRO tool.


----------



## Alcpone (Mar 12, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Doesn't matter what cooler you are using, water cooling, etc, you will never go past 621mhz without needing to push the voltages (HIS are "prepushed").
> 
> This card barely overclocks T_T.....not that I need to .
> 
> ...





Have you checked ketxxx thread on bios? You may not have a voltage table or any hardware on the board to do anything major with it, I was stuck @ 621 until ketxxx fiddled and I got a bios with a voltage table, my original did not but the card works faster with the newer bios!


----------



## freeboy (Mar 13, 2007)

Evidently there is an HIS VIVO card, but it looks exactly the same and I think maybe all HIS x1950 Pro Turbos are VIVO ready just did not include the  four to one dongle and software, does anyone know?


----------



## Ketxxx (Mar 13, 2007)

New card is in.. torturing it like any good OCer would do. gonna kill off its gay write protection it has soon so I can flash it, almost certain the BIOS is locked on it.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 14, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> New card is in.. torturing it like any good OCer would do. gonna kill off its gay write protection it has soon so I can flash it, almost certain the BIOS is locked on it.



I'm so confused... I don't get flashing 100%...


----------



## Alcpone (Mar 14, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> I'm so confused... I don't get flashing 100%...



Gfx cards have bios', you can flash them to a modded bios to get more volts, better timings and other different tweaks, basically gives you abit more umph...

You should speak to ket about a modded bios


----------



## paddel (Mar 14, 2007)

Hi Guys, is it possible to fix the 3D Mod by Overdrive? I have the Gecube X1950XT Card and I see the actual taktrate GPU 499,5 and memory 598....I know that the rates will be changed by playing, but is it possible to fix it, if yes please explain me....thanks.

Regards 
Paddel


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## Zubasa (Mar 16, 2007)

So this is where the thread end up...


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## tkpenalty (Mar 18, 2007)

Zubasa said:


> So this is where the thread end up...



You were finding it? 

Franky, I think I wasted money on my slot blower, the AcceleroX2 is good for the fact that it is not affected by the following:

1. Positioning of the GPU, I.E. Top slot, bottom slot.
2. Ambient temps
3. Air pressure.

I installed the slot blower and whaddya know, no difference. If I had the reference cooler it would work heaps great (euqivalent to a X1950XT cooler). But with the accelero there was no difference. I even moved the GPU to the lower slot and i was surprised. I'll leve it at the bottom slot so then I can use my Thermaltake Cyclo RAM cooler.

(holy shit DDRII is so fucking cheap...  512 667DDRII is now $43AUD... $1GB = $70AUD used to be two times more expensive!!!!)

Weird thing was that I had to flash the card at the bottom slot, flashing it on the top slot didnt work which i think is fking weird as hell.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 21, 2007)

Wow it has been a long time, time to bump this club.

K.. after installing the GPU at the bottom slot (to accomodate the thermaltake cyclo) my temps were the same, 40*C idle & 53*C load, then... The sound card was installed, i then checked today, apparently its hit 50*C idle T_T. Meh time to use onboard audio again.


----------



## munz778 (Mar 21, 2007)

I've already send an email out to PowerColor about this but I'd like to request user input on this forum with regards to the VRM heat issue please:

I'm using the Cooler Master Aerogate 3 fan controller to monitor temps with sensors as well as ATItool to monitor core temps. I took one of the temperature probes and placed its tip in the wedge between the PCB and the VR chip (the one on the bottom corner of the card).

At idle, (Vista desktop) the temperature of the VR is 77C (too hot to hold my finger to when IDLE) and at load the temperature reached 90C in less than 30 seconds of scanning for artifacts. Please note these temperatures were taken with the computer's case open and room temperature at 22C, so the temperatures with the computer's case closed will obviously be higher. Further, the probe can not display temperatures above 90C and i'm sure it went higher because the core temps take at least 5 mins to level off, not 30 seconds.

The core temperature is good, it remains under 60C at load even with the case closed. The VR is what's concerning me, and I have been getting artifacts after a few minutes of ATItool stress testing (no overclocking whatsoever).

Is it safe to assume the reason for my artifacts is this VR heat issue? If so what can I do about it? Can I use RAM heat sinks on these chips? Even the chips with the black coolers are very hot, can I also install RAMsinks on these as well? Obviously an adhesive needs to be used, otherwise the HS would fall off. This would also mean getting the HS placed correctly the first time is paramount - there's zero margin for error. Surely this will reduce the lifespan of my card, right? I know technology is constantly advancing, but 90C+ for silicon? That's just wrong. Any thoughts?


----------



## Alcpone (Mar 21, 2007)

munz778 said:


> I've already send an email out to PowerColor about this but I'd like to request user input on this forum with regards to the VRM heat issue please:
> 
> I'm using the Cooler Master Aerogate 3 fan controller to monitor temps with sensors as well as ATItool to monitor core temps. I took one of the temperature probes and placed its tip in the wedge between the PCB and the VR chip (the one on the bottom corner of the card).
> 
> ...



I remember someone posting that 120c is about the max the vrm can run @ without giving issues


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## bundlebr (Mar 21, 2007)

Alcpone said:


> I remember someone posting that 120c is about the max the vrm can run @ without giving issues



Yeah, but it's very high, and, without proper ventilation, may cause problems to other components on the board or around.

I've replaced the stock cooler with Thermalright's HR-03, and stack HS's on each chip. It was very helpful to put a piece of Thermagon and large HS on the back of the card...

If you're really concerned, look at the IR images of my card at idle and under load. There is HS on top of the Pulse chip of VRM, but no large HS on the back of the card. Here is the link to Ketxxx's thread:
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=25301&page=18


----------



## munz778 (Mar 22, 2007)

Alcpone, bundlebr: i've got a factory fitted accelero x2 slapped on my powercolor. the company has installed coolers on two of the four VR chips (one on mem VR, one on GPU VR) so the VRM (plate) won't fit. what are my options? can i use one of these? will they fall off/cause any other complications? which one's best for this purpose? i'd prefer the tried and tested approach as opposed to experimenting.


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## tkpenalty (Mar 22, 2007)

Dude, it already has heatsinks so dont worry. The Pulse and the VTEC are not VRMs. 77*C Will not hurt the VRM chips anyway so stop worrying. The drivers are usually at fault not the card itself. What drivers are you on anyway?


----------



## munz778 (Mar 22, 2007)

but if it's nothing to worry about then why am i getting artifacts at stock speeds? atitool can't run more than 3 minutes...and that's being optimistic.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 22, 2007)

munz778 said:


> but if it's nothing to worry about then why am i getting artifacts at stock speeds? atitool can't run more than 3 minutes...and that's being optimistic.



RMA. Thats all you need to do >_>. Stop arguing and RMA immediately, I hate people who keep asking questions when the only option is to RMA.


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## munz778 (Mar 22, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> RMA. Thats all you need to do >_>. Stop arguing and RMA immediately, I hate people who keep asking questions when the only option is to RMA.



look pal, where you're sitting it may be easy for you to RMA. you might just walk down the street to your computer shop. not everyone is in the same place in the world. i had to import the card because they're not available locally so it's very difficult to send it back, clear it with customs on its way out, pay freight charges to hong kong and back, clear it again with customs etc.

i'd rather exhaust all available options and get a clear picture of the problem before having to go through the above steps. it's not like i'm making 100 threads on the topic, i'm simply asking a few questions and adding to an existing discussion by trying to get some info.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 22, 2007)

... 

Then try different drivers. Try all of them that work with X1950PRO. Try omega drivers, do you mean they artifact upon the desktop? That might be something with the drivers. Where do you live anyway?


----------



## munz778 (Mar 22, 2007)

i've only tried the cat 7.2s under vista and was under the impression that they worked pretty well with the x1950s, better than previous releases. i could try another driver as you recommended, the thing is sometimes the card works fine after hours of gaming. other times the computer crashes within minutes of gaming. because i have everything set up pretty much the way i want it (home network, OS's, programs, drivers etc) i just want to get all the necessary info before deciding whether to change the software (driver/os) or the hardware (additional cooling), my dilemma here being that i have yet to decide whether this is the classic case of "if it ain't broke, then don't try to fix it" or whether there is actually a problem.

your point about temps and the chips is noted, thanks for the heads up cause i didn't know what chip was for what, with the exception that they're very hot. i had read on another forum someone with similar problems as myself added a fan near the corner that gets heated and their problems were solved. i haven't got enough room for a fan and don't want to mod till i know exactly what i'm doing.

i live in karachi, the local market here tends to sport more nvidia gear - at least when it comes to mid - high end gfx cards.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 22, 2007)

Driver 7.2 has many issues with many games. It makes them produce artifacts explicit to "the end of the GPU's life", which is not. Try older beta drivers since those actually work properly. I was @ total wtf-ness when dog's head in HL2:EP1 was flying around the place and the whole place blacked out, with the depth in field effects black. Then I switched back, problem solved.

Where you live there is probably a "market lag" at the moment, or that its easier to ship. The fan wont help though. The VRMs dont complain when heated. The heatsinks store the energy longer since they are ceramic and painted black. But yes, they generate and accumulate heat in a way that heatsinking it will actually improve performance.


----------



## munz778 (Mar 22, 2007)

ah ic, that thought did cross my mind, and cooling the VRM may actually degrade performance because they're meant to accumulate heat by design. i dismissed it thinking back to the older designs where anything (specifically silicon processors/gpus etc) above 90C is usually toast or will be soon. plus when i found out arctic cooling had released the VRM plate i got even more concerned that this is potentially a problem area.

thanks for the info, i noticed you also have a powercolor, with the VRM plate. i'm assuming you installed it yourself, may i ask why (ie: for stability or for more overclocking headroom) and did it help?

also the artifacts pop up during the ATItool scan for artifacts test, usually some time after the first minute. the maximum i've gone is about 9 mins without artifacts and haven't been able to reproduce that result since. games look ok, but as i mentioned already i have had a few crashes during gaming.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 23, 2007)

nah I didnt put teh VRM plate, In fact I kicked it around then bent it up since I wasted 1 green back for it T_T. ATI Tool is not for any X1950PRO that you will touch, it fucks up 100% every time.


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 24, 2007)

OK, finally after a 2 and a half month war with overclockers UK I am finally getting a warranty replacement for my old 1800XT.

They are sending me this card:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-066-PC

Apparently the one review I managed to find on this said that it overclocked to 685 Core and 1075 memory! It already stocks at higher than normal 1950XT's as you will see from link, that would make it a 256MB version of the 1950XTX without the GDDR4, well faster actually but when you take the lesser memory into account around the same performance I think.

Right the problem...... do I keep my 7900GTO (details/clocks in specs) and flea bay the brand new unopened 1950XT or vice versa?  I game at 1600 x 1050 so there is some benefit from the 512MB of the 7900GTO but even taking that into account I am guessing the 1950XT's performance would still match it.......what you think?  I should stress that the GTO IS performing faster than a GTX at stock by a fair bit.

I am aware of the AA/HDR benefits of ATi, I am aware of the OpenGL benefits of Nvidia, please no fanboi stuff just honest thoughts and facts, key factors for me are:

Speed!
IQ
Memory Quantity
Perhaps SLI or Crossfire in future (anyone know if the 1950XT is crossfire 2?) ie no master card needed.
And the 7900 GTO has HDCP also.

I spose I am asking for trouble posing this question on this thread! so think of them both as ATi for a moment and just look at specs/capabilities please!


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 24, 2007)

http://www.powercolor.com/global/images/assets/PCIE_X1950_X1950 XT 512MB/PSD/image_b_s.jpg

WTF?! X1950XT Extreme Supports no crossfire?

Now that is fucked.... Okay apart from that, X1950XT > 7900GTO any day of the week. Open GL is becoming phased out due to its inflexibility. I do suggest rather than getting one X1950XT that doesn support crossfire, get two X1950PROs... it will do a lot better.
With the IQ, ATI does it better usually.

EDIT:

Apparently, powercolor has used the X1950PRO PCB and put the X1950XT core and memory. Please note that the crossfire dongles do not mean it can do crossfire, until a modified bios is released.


Btw, powercolor only produces the gpus in these series:

*X1950 Series*
*X1650 Series (or the new X16xxx series)*
*X1550 Series (or the new X13xxx series*
*X1050 Series*


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## Tatty_One (Mar 24, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> http://www.powercolor.com/global/images/assets/PCIE_X1950_X1950 XT 512MB/PSD/image_b_s.jpg
> 
> WTF?! X1950XT Extreme Supports no crossfire?
> 
> ...




But your link is NOT the card I am getting.  Do you reckon its as fast as the 7900?


----------



## technicks (Mar 24, 2007)

Which X1950 XT do you get Tatty?


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 25, 2007)

technicks said:


> Which X1950 XT do you get Tatty?



The link to the store is in post 888 just above, it's not on the Powercolor site, I think it's a limited edition for Europe.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 25, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> The link to the store is in post 888 just above, it's not on the Powercolor site, I think it's a limited edition for Europe.



Someone like you should know that they photoshopped the image. Have a closer look. It doesnt support Crossfire and the cooler has a RED label.











that is the real deal:
http://www.powercolor.com/global/main_product_detail.asp?id=160






The new and ugly X1950PRO/GT *cries in pain*






at least they still have the VRM version..





Instead of acceleroX2 + VRM Ceramic heatsinks, this is the SC1 + AcceleroX2 VRM Plate!


----------



## DOM (Mar 25, 2007)

did you look at the card in the box its not the same coller as the one out of the box  
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showphoto.php?src=/pimg/GX-066-PC_400.jpg&name=PowerColor


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 25, 2007)

Um... look at what I posted, itll inject some sense to yourself, post #893 The X1950XT displayed however is a photoshop by powercolor, the X1950XT Extreme has the standard X1950XT PCB, my bad lol...


----------



## technicks (Mar 25, 2007)

I get my Sapphire X1950 XT on wednesday. I rma'd the Pro and a week later i got a email that i had credit to buy a card. That's fast.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 25, 2007)

*Feels left out of the X1950XT bus...*


----------



## DOM (Mar 25, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> *Feels left out of the X1950XT bus...*



sell you mine


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 25, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> *Feels left out of the X1950XT bus...*



Awwwww, so to clear things up......we dont know wtf I am getting!  Now as I see it the XT is R580 and the Pro RV570....right? but the good thing about the 1950XT from what I have just read over the 1950XTX which is also R580 is that the XT is 80nm when the XTX with the same core is 90nm......very strange, here's a link to that info:

http://pda.hardware.info/en-US/arti...n_X1650_XT_X1950_Pro_X1950_XT_videocard_test/

Anyways, we will see about the Crossfire2 support when it arrives Tuesday I spose, the outcome of that may just make me decide to keep the 7900GTO, but getting back to my origional point.......whats the faster/better, the 1950XT 256MB or the 7900GTO in excess of GTX speeds at 512MB????


----------



## DOM (Mar 25, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> whats the faster/better, the 1950XT 256MB or the 7900GTO in excess of GTX speeds at 512MB????



well this is what I get with it in 3DMark05 at 3.6GHz and card stock try to look for my others


GT1 - Return To Proxycon 56.2 fps 

GT2 - Firefly Forest 34.2 fps 

GT3 - Canyon Flight 63.8 fps


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 25, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> well this is what I get with it in 3DMark05 at 3.6GHz and card stock try to look for my others
> 
> 
> GT1 - Return To Proxycon 56.2 fps
> ...



Thanks I will check what I got with the 7900GTO and a 4000+ at 3.2Gig, what is stock for your card?


----------



## DOM (Mar 25, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Thanks I will check what I got with the 7900GTO and a 4000+ at 3.2Gig, what is stock for your card?



621/900


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 25, 2007)

Here's mine but the 7900GTO was at 705/820 I beleive for this one on my Athlon 4000 at 3.2Gig:

GT1 - Return To Proxycon 49.3 fps 

GT2 - Firefly Forest 37.3 fps 

GT3 - Canyon Flight 57.4 fps

I am just wondering how much is down to your C2D tho.  Having said that I reckon without the CPU factor with an overclocked 1950XT it would still better the score for the GTO.

Edit:  Thanks that makes me feel better! This card coming stocks at 650/900.


----------



## DOM (Mar 25, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Here's mine but the 7900GTO was at 705/820 I beleive for this one on my Athlon 4000 at 3.2Gig:
> 
> GT1 - Return To Proxycon 49.3 fps
> 
> ...



well do you want me to run some other test I dont mind but im trying to download my stuff for my mobo cuz I reinstailled my OS but damn site is being a bitch  and I can run the cpu at stock or slower then 3.6GHz



Tatty_One said:


> Edit:  Thanks that makes me feel better! This card coming stocks at 650/900.



mines stock 650 but with the HIS tune thing it comes with but atitool sees it at 621 and on stock volts I got it to 675/975 somthing like that but I'll check when I get all my things downloaded


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 25, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> well do you want me to run some other test I dont mind but im trying to download my stuff for my mobo cuz I reinstailled my OS but damn site is being a bitch  and I can run the cpu at stock or slower then 3.6GHz
> 
> 
> 
> mines stock 650 but with the HIS tune thing it comes with but atitool sees it at 621 and on stock volts I got it to 675/975 somthing like that but I'll check when I get all my things downloaded



No need but thanks for the offer, I will wait first till it arrives and I can check the crossfire but thanks for your help, you are obviously very happy with the card!


----------



## DOM (Mar 25, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> No need but thanks for the offer, I will wait first till it arrives and I can check the crossfire but thanks for your help, you are obviously very happy with the card!



well I was untill the 8800's came out  

   but if you want any other benches let me know so if you dont want to open it so you can get more for it if you want to sell it and i'll run 05 stock on card and cpu but i'll but the card at 650/900 

   oh yea im going to water soon  hope I dont kill anything but im just going for just the cpu, nd, sb, im still thinking about the card if I should sell it or just keep it


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 25, 2007)

Ok, would you run 2005 at max overclock on the card please and say set your CPU to about 2.5Gig, they say that a C2D is about 20% faster than an athlon clock for clock (maybe a bit more) so hopefully that should compensate.  If you can underclock your ram to as near to DDR500 then that would be even better!

Grateful for your help!


----------



## DOM (Mar 25, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Ok, would you run 2005 at max overclock on the card please and say set your CPU to about 2.5Gig, they say that a C2D is about 20% faster than an athlon clock for clock (maybe a bit more) so hopefully that should compensate.  If you can underclock your ram to as near to DDR500 then that would be even better!
> 
> Grateful for your help!



cuz max do you mean bench wise? or with it where you can use it all the time while gaming 

and I can set the ram at 500 which would be 250 which would put the cpu at 2GHZ 

cuz it was 675/972 oc with stock volts  cpu at 3.2GHZ

GT1 - Return To Proxycon 63.6 fps 

GT2 - Firefly Forest 37.6 fps 

GT3 - Canyon Flight 72.5 fps


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 25, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> cuz max do you mean bench wise? or with it where you can use it all the time while gaming
> 
> and I can set the ram at 500 which would be 250 which would put the cpu at 2GHZ
> 
> ...


----------



## DOM (Mar 25, 2007)

well I'll try it at 2.5GHz cuz this is one thing I tryed was {disable memory tim auto-tuning} I clicked it so I would be using the tighter mem tim from 2d clocks on the 3d oc and well you can be the judge the cpu is higher on the losser tim but it shows that the tigther tim makes a diff. 937 points more  

lose tim
http://service.futuremark.com/orb/resultanalyzer.jsp?projectType=12&XLID=0&UID=8555011

tighter tim
http://service.futuremark.com/orb/resultanalyzer.jsp?projectType=12&XLID=0&UID=8554873


----------



## DOM (Mar 25, 2007)

well here you go cpu at 2496GHz mem at 312MHz 4-4-4-12 2T 

tighter tim +591
http://service.futuremark.com/orb/resultanalyzer.jsp?projectType=12&XLID=0&UID=8556016
GT1 - Return To Proxycon 52.5 fps 

GT2 - Firefly Forest 36.1 fps 

GT3 - Canyon Flight 69.3 fps 

lose tim
http://service.futuremark.com/orb/resultanalyzer.jsp?projectType=12&XLID=0&UID=8556426
GT1 - Return To Proxycon 51.0 fps 

GT2 - Firefly Forest 34.7 fps 

GT3 - Canyon Flight 64.4 fps


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 25, 2007)

Thanks, that would suggest the 1950XT is marginally faster than the 7900GTX, I will keep the 1950 if it IS Crossfire 2 enabled, if not it's going to fleabay!  Thanks for all your help, I owe you one!


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 26, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Awwwww, so to clear things up......we dont know wtf I am getting!  Now as I see it the XT is R580 and the Pro RV570....right? but the good thing about the 1950XT from what I have just read over the 1950XTX which is also R580 is that the XT is 80nm when the XTX with the same core is 90nm......very strange, here's a link to that info:
> 
> http://pda.hardware.info/en-US/arti...n_X1650_XT_X1950_Pro_X1950_XT_videocard_test/
> 
> Anyways, we will see about the Crossfire2 support when it arrives Tuesday I spose, the outcome of that may just make me decide to keep the 7900GTO, but getting back to my origional point.......whats the faster/better, the 1950XT 256MB or the 7900GTO in excess of GTX speeds at 512MB????



1950XT > 7900GTX.


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 26, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> 1950XT > 7900GTX.



I just wish it was as simple as that! If it was I would just keep the 7900 as it has the 512MB but I am looking perhaps to SLi or X Fire in the future and the 2nd 1950 is going to be easier to come by & cheaper than a GTO or GTX (I can flash the GTO > GTX for the sake of SLi as they are so rare now.

Thats why it is pretty dependant on the new crossfire support.  It will arrive tomorrow so hopefully I can make up my mind.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 27, 2007)

With the X1950GT, atm I would prefer to have the Capacitor system lol:







Except It would be better if they were all solid caps though. I reckon the AcceleroX2 would work better on this new PCB design.


----------



## Zalmann (Mar 27, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> With the X1950GT, atm I would prefer to have the Capacitor system lol:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What the hell are they mixing solid caps with normal electrolytics?? Must have been a cheap bodgey job.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 27, 2007)

On the PRO version the caps are solid.


----------



## Zalmann (Mar 27, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> On the PRO version the caps are solid.



I guess it's a manufacturers cost saving thing. Solid caps are a lot more dearer, but also last up to 5 times as long.


----------



## bundlebr (Mar 27, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> On the PRO version the caps are solid.



Nah, on the NEW Sapphire X1950 Pro, this entire area looks exactly the same as it is in your picture. I got both new and old Pro cards, and the PCB layout + HS design are different.


----------



## Alcpone (Mar 27, 2007)

bundlebr said:


> Nah, on the NEW Sapphire X1950 Pro, this entire area looks exactly the same as it is in your picture. I got both new and old Pro cards, and the PCB layout + HS design are different.



Whats your 3dmark06 score? You should join the comp in my sig


----------



## bundlebr (Mar 27, 2007)

Alcpone said:


> Whats your 3dmark06 score? You should join the comp in my sig



In Crossfire, it's ~9160 for 3DMark06 and ~18322 for 3DMark05. Have to check my records without CF, should be around 5500 for '06.


----------



## Alcpone (Mar 27, 2007)

bundlebr said:


> In Crossfire, it's ~9160 for 3DMark06 and ~18322 for 3DMark05. Have to check my records without CF, should be around 5500 for '06.



If you post the screenies in the thread in my sig then I can add you


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 27, 2007)

Got the 1950XT extreme @ 650/1800  warranty replacement today, It comes with the accelero x2 fitted as standard but it is not Crossfire2 or whatever it's called so I think I am going to keep the GTO and this thing is going in that bin called fleabay 

Edit:  I have just read that this card only works with the NEW "software" crossfire, no bridge/dongle etc, apparantly this software is only found in Catalyst 6.11onwards.......wtf is all that about, can someone please give me a clue?


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 27, 2007)

Just read a review on this software crossfire.....it's actually good! the simplest option for crossfire.......hmmm might keep it now and get the wife to buy me a second 1950XT for my birthday in June.  (after I have sold the GTO, mobo, ram and Opty) and bought my AM2 Rig.

The short review is here for anyone interested:

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1..._tested_with_catalyst_6_11_drivers/index.html


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 28, 2007)

lol yeah, but the performance boost is way lower than true crossfire, 2 X1950PRO in crossfire > 2 X1950XT in software crossfire.

Now off topic and into libel-r-us mode:
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=28179
Okay this faggot who posted this thread is going down now! I swear he has no sense of reality. As if someone who only has $100 can afford a bloody $300 GPU.

I didnt get to post in that thread anyway so now I will have to say something about it. Eric_cartman does not realise that the 7600GT have so many variants, of which the ones that outperform the X1650XT are much more expensive; i.e. Fatal1ty range or the "superclocked" versions. X1650XT is fairly new and DOES NOT have many variants yet. X1650XT when compared to a "normal" 7600GT beats 7600GT overall, the X1650XT is a more all around performer. 

Now, he calls me a fanboi-now ill call him a troller.


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 28, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> lol yeah, but the performance boost is way lower than true crossfire, 2 X1950PRO in crossfire > 2 X1950XT in software crossfire.
> 
> Now off topic and into libel-r-us mode:
> http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=28179
> ...




I am at work now but I will show you a link to a review when I get home that said that the software crossfire for the 1950XT was 1200 3D Mark 2006 points faster than 1950Pro crossfire and the pro did not match the xt in any bench, although I appreciate that different reviews can say different things.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 30, 2007)

Hmm... what CPU did it use? You need a C2D > 2.0Ghz for the potential to be utilised.


----------



## leeko (Mar 30, 2007)

Ok, hopefully this is the right thread as I just googled it up.

I am having a very frustrating problem with my Sapphire X1950XT.
Under any serious stress, running on stock 3D voltages & clocks,
the voltage regulator climbs pretty quickly to >70C. When it nears
or reaches 80C my computer shuts down.

CPU, mobo and the rest of the temps are fine. So, suggestions,
what could be wrong? I'm not very happy running my card underclocked
to be able to play.

My PSU is Fortron Blue Storm II 500W rev2:
12V1 / 18A, 12V2 / 18A - 480W (tho I read the rails are "virtual"
so basically just one rail -> 18+18A=36A?).

ps. the video card also has stock cooler still attached.


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 30, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Hmm... what CPU did it use? You need a C2D > 2.0Ghz for the potential to be utilised.



C2D E6600 at stock.


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 30, 2007)

leeko said:


> Ok, hopefully this is the right thread as I just googled it up.
> 
> I am having a very frustrating problem with my Sapphire X1950XT.
> Under any serious stress, running on stock 3D voltages & clocks,
> ...



Amperage is fine, I would suggest that the stock cooler is either not sitting correctly on the GPU or there is not enuff thermal past applied or it's just crap paste.  Would suggest you get some Artic Silver or ceramique and reapply making sure its thoroughly cleaned first.


----------



## leeko (Mar 30, 2007)

Is this intended action from the driver?


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 30, 2007)

No not normally a driver issue, I cant speak for anyone else but personally I tend to take some of the ATi tool readouts with a "pinch of salt" for example, that graphic shows you are drawing 27.3Amps of power just for your graphics card, sorry just do not beleive that at all, thats an obscene amount!  If thats the case and there is that much power beeing drawn thru the card I am surprised its not floating in hell by now.

What PSU have you got with how many 12V rails and what is their ratings?


----------



## leeko (Mar 30, 2007)

Hmm... Wrote it in the previous post but here's it again:

PSU: Fortron Blue Storm II 500W rev.2:
12V1 / 18A, 12V2 / 18A - 480W

Some review of the PSU said they're "virtual rails". By that I
understood there is basically just one 12V rail. There isn't
much details even in Fortron's website. Just don't mix this
PSU with the rev.1, which seems to have only 15A on 12V
rails.

And thanks for the help this far!


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 30, 2007)

Whats the amperage calculations again?  Combining them together... its around 36 amps (or something). VRMs need heat to run properly lol... seriously, they usually are around 90*C on normal usage-thats barely hot for them.

However my X1950PRO Draws the same amperage tatty... the calculated not the actual amperage. I think when they hit 80*C they are pulling around the max amperage, thus, houston, we have a problem (lol), I say it has to do with your PSU, because I think it seems like a generic/low-tier brand (correct me if I am wrong). 

Try requesting an RMA or run different programs, but at this point it has to be your PSU, usually driver issues will just crash the card or bsod.

EDIT: It seems to me that that PSU's age of production is one of the issues. It is such an old model that I highly doubt the rails are powerful enough. Remember the X1950 series requires *A powerful ATX12V 2.2 PSU*, not something cheesy and overdone with bling, but the PSUs that have the following:

-Top/Mid Tier Brand
-High amperage
-Is a recent model, newer than 2005.
-High efficiency

Most importantly:

-Have around 500W+
-True Multirails OR High amperage single rail (40amps+)


----------



## leeko (Mar 30, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Whats the amperage calculations again? Because an 18 Amp Rail isn't very sturdy. Combining them together... its around 36 amps. VRMs need heat to run properly lol... seriously, they usually are around 90*C on normal usage-thats barely hot for them.



I'm not sure what is the combined current. And Fortron's site doesn't have any specifications
for this model. But if those 2x rails are "virtual", by that, I would understand there's actually just one 36A 12V rail. Anybody, with understanding in electronics, feel free to correct my beliefs.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 30, 2007)

eh... that PSU is of such an old model, if it doesnt come with the PCI-E Connector, thats your problem, since the adapters arent such a good idea on such a high end card like the X1950XT.


----------



## leeko (Mar 30, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> eh... that PSU is of such an old model, if it doesnt come with the PCI-E Connector, thats your problem, since the adapters arent such a good idea on such a high end card like the X1950XT.



It has two PCI-E connectors. And for all I know Fortron (FSP) makes very reputable PSUs.
And the combined current seems to be 36A on 12V rail.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104034


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 30, 2007)

Weird... okay it doesnt seem to be this problem, try a request for the GPU to be RMA'ed.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 30, 2007)

.... speechless.. .Batou1986's 1337nes... why arent the memory chips cooled though?


----------



## Batou1986 (Mar 30, 2007)

as nice as it looks the tec is only 20W so its not that effective i plan on going with a zalman vf-900 setup for some reason i cant set clocks in ATI tool beta 27 and yes those are some sammys on there 











I have no Idea why there not Cooled


----------



## Bloodbrother (Mar 30, 2007)

Hi,

Here a methode for Flashing a XpertVision X1950GT Super 512MB to X1950Pro.

http://www.generation-3d.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=190025207&st=30

It should work for Palit Cards too.

Command for flashing :

Atiflash -p -atmel 0 rv570pro.bin -f

Bye


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 30, 2007)

Batou1986 said:


> as nice as it looks the tec is only 20W so its not that effective i plan on going with a zalman vf-900 setup for some reason i cant set clocks in ATI tool beta 27 and yes those are some sammys on there
> 
> 
> 
> ...



72*C is way too hot for comfort...

EDIT: Rate my rig, i like that style http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/details.php?id=696


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 31, 2007)

Man, almost 1k posts in this thread >=D.

I get 9.3k in 3D Mark 05 btw guys, seems a bit low, um would the RAM be my bottleneck? Its crappy generic stuff btw.


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 31, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Man, almost 1k posts in this thread >=D.
> 
> I get 9.3k in 3D Mark 05 btw guys, seems a bit low, um would the RAM be my bottleneck? Its crappy generic stuff btw.



No, it's the 1950Pro, it's a little slow you know  

Seriously though, you should be scoring higher than that even with the Ram, try a bandwidth test thru everest or SiSsoft Sandra to see how the RAM is performing.

On a more serious note, it may actually be your Graphics card, I got 10200 on a 7900GT with a Venice 3800 at 2.7Gig on 2005, your score is a little bit worrying.  2005 is much less CPU/System dependant than 2006 so it should not really be your memory, and my old 10200 score with the 7900GT was with plain old DDR value ram!

Is your 6300 at stock?


----------



## Batou1986 (Mar 31, 2007)

yea 9.3k is way low i got 8.8 and my cpu is mostly the blame for that and t2 ram don't help


----------



## mehukatti (Mar 31, 2007)

i get only 3900points on 3dmark06 something wrong? other specs amd 3700sd@2850 and 400mhz 1gb kingston and mobo is assrock dual-sata. i dont think that mem needs any cooling(or im just lazy) trying on finger they dont feel so warm.


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 31, 2007)

mehukatti said:


> i get only 3900points on 3dmark06 something wrong? other specs amd 3700sd@2850 and 400mhz 1gb kingston and mobo is assrock dual-sata. i dont think that mem needs any cooling(or im just lazy) trying on finger they dont feel so warm.



Whats your graphics card?, it would help if you listed your full specs in "user CP", is your gig of ram just one stick or 2 x 512MB?


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 31, 2007)

Btw tatty_one, its not my GPU, its the RAM, its shitty generic RAM. Worse than valueram, I had to compromise. Btw I know what was causing this score bottleneck, my god damn HDD configuration, I had the OS installed on the outside edge of my HDD; causing a nasty bottleneck. Now that its fixed everything runs faster.

On a second note, it might be the motherboard.


----------



## mehukatti (Mar 31, 2007)

sorry for that 
i had sapphire x1950pro 256mb and 2*512mb stick its on dualchannel
weird thing, my old card(7900gt) points on 05 was about two times higher than 06 but with this 
card they isnt. 05 9500 and 06 3900


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 31, 2007)

TK, in 2005 tho the system plays much less a part in the bench unlike 2006, its about 50/50 in 2006 where in 2005 the GPU is 75% (ish) of the test.
By the way, as an aside, I am going to sell the 1950XT extreme silent, will keep the 7900GTO until June and for a birthday pressie will sell the gto and get either R600 or 8800GTS.

mehukatti, thats about right then with a single core, i presume your memory is around stock speeds?  I got 5900 on 2006 with the GTO at 7900GTX speeds and a single core 4000+ but that was running at 3.2Gig with memory at 480Mhz 2.5-3-2-5@1T.

Anyways, I dont think syntetic benches are necessarily the 1950pro's strongest point, it excels more in IQ and real world gaming mefinks.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 31, 2007)

Processor? I think its the processor at fault. 

Btw tatty, SISSoftsandra says:

RAM Bandwidth Int Buff'd: 4617MB/s
RAM Bandwidth Float Buff'd : 4635MB/s. 

Obviously the RAM is at fault! Those scores are incredibly low!


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 31, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Processor? I think its the processor at fault.
> 
> Btw tatty, SISSoftsandra says:
> 
> ...



Yes they are far too low, I get near 7000 outta ddr400 @500, thats a bit worrying, all that CPU speed as well....flea bay that memory!


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 1, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Yes they are far too low, I get near 7000 outta ddr400 @500, thats a bit worrying, all that CPU speed as well....flea bay that memory!



But my desktop and gaming speed isnt compromised   Like I get normal FPS like they say in benchmarks, like for BF2, etc. Yeah I might sell the ram for like $50 AUD... Is valueram good? All the CPU tests show that my CPU is one of the "good batches" lol. What does dell use? I think they use something equivalent or worse. Btw the timings since the RAM doesnt even get warm.  

Is the brand Silicon Power good? 1GB stick. Comes in a case with warranty and it looks quite good. http://www.silicon-power.com/eng/about_sp.php.

I think its around valueram the memory modules are all shiny LOL (gloss? articlean?, looks like it).

EDIT: http://www.silicon-power.com/eng/dram.php, will only work with IE6/7


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 1, 2007)

> Processors Information
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Processor 1 (ID = 0)
> ...



Yeah, look at the timings O_O. Explains a lot doesnt it? That RAM i mentioned has 5-5-5 while this... LOL


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 2, 2007)

help?


----------



## demonbrawn (Apr 4, 2007)

Hey guys. It took a long while (felt like it at least), but I'm glad I can be in this clubhouse now! Finally got everything up and running. My card is running like a pro, but the first thing I noticed is it has absolutely NO overclocking ability right now without the voltmod. Oh well, I don't really need it all that bad anyway. The HIS cooler runs great. I just ran FEAR and the highest temp I saw with the fan speed at 100% was 43 degrees. Can't wait til I can save up enough money to buy another and CrossFire!


----------



## erocker (Apr 5, 2007)

Crap.  I finally got around to removing the heat sink and fan on my HIS x1950pro and all I have to say is I'm suprised my gpu is ok.  Right on the block no more than half a millimeter away from the gpu is a gouge that looks like a chissel was slammed into it.   This is going to be a long lapping job. On the bright side my gpu was already 36c at idle which is pretty cool.  Maybe I'll be able to get some better overclocks on my gpu.


----------



## erocker (Apr 5, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Yeah, look at the timings O_O. Explains a lot doesnt it? That RAM i mentioned has 5-5-5 while this... LOL



That is some awful ram.


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 5, 2007)

Yeah got it for $35 AUD each stick so...


----------



## Oliver (Apr 7, 2007)

*Her I go*

Saphire X1950XT 256Mo
Zalman vf 900 CU led added(gained 5-10° idle 3-5° under load

Couldn't find an adapter so had to solder my wire to the power and control pins.......

Warcat 7.2 driver running stable at 648/927......but should be able to run 1950 pro speeds:shadedshu 

















Cheers


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 8, 2007)

I'm just curious to know but, is there any tool out there that can control the X1950PRO's PWM chip? Seriously, im sick of my fan running at 32%.


----------



## Alcpone (Apr 8, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> I'm just curious to know but, is there any tool out there that can control the X1950PRO's PWM chip? Seriously, im sick of my fan running at 32%.



Im suprised you can hear it @ that speed??? 

I really dont know what all the fuss is about with VRM's, PWM's, etc...

I aint got 1 problem with mine, just got it on water for gpu and ram sinks and fan under card to circulate, thats it! I know my clock aint massive but its fairly decent


----------



## Zalmann (Apr 8, 2007)

I'd cut my losses and run it directly from the 12v rail, using some sort of fan speed adjustment like the fanmate speed controllers that come with some Zalman coolers.


----------



## Oliver (Apr 8, 2007)

*straight*



Alcpone said:


> Im suprised you can hear it @ that speed???
> 
> I really dont know what all the fuss is about with VRM's, PWM's, etc...
> 
> I aint got 1 problem with mine, just got it on water for gpu and ram sinks and fan under card to circulate, thats it! I know my clock aint massive but its fairly decent



Run it straight out of a fan controller on the Mobo with fan mate or a fan controller on the face of your case


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 10, 2007)

Alcpone said:


> Im suprised you can hear it @ that speed???
> 
> I really dont know what all the fuss is about with VRM's, PWM's, etc...
> 
> I aint got 1 problem with mine, just got it on water for gpu and ram sinks and fan under card to circulate, thats it! I know my clock aint massive but its fairly decent



I cant hear it, its just that I want it to be at 100%, it would run way cooler at those temps. And no, I don't want to do a ghetto mod.


----------



## binormalkilla (Apr 10, 2007)

I just got my second HIS X1950 Pro and it's the revision 2 model.  It supports overdrive, and I haven't been able to OC it yet.  I'll be able to run Crossfire mode as soon as my 37" Westinghouse 1080P LCD HDTV arrives tomorrow 
anyone have this model?  My first one overclocks fine, but this one goes black as soon as you run the artifact scanner with any higher clocks than the default 635/742.
It has the faster 1.2ns memory also, so it should overclock more on the memory......
http://www.hisdigital.com/html/product_ov.php?id=295&view=yes


----------



## Alcpone (Apr 10, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> I just got my second HIS X1950 Pro and it's the revision 2 model.  It supports overdrive, and I haven't been able to OC it yet.  I'll be able to run Crossfire mode as soon as my 37" Westinghouse 1080P LCD HDTV arrives tomorrow
> anyone have this model?  My first one overclocks fine, but this one goes black as soon as you run the artifact scanner with any higher clocks than the default 635/742.
> It has the faster 1.2ns memory also, so it should overclock more on the memory......
> http://www.hisdigital.com/html/product_ov.php?id=295&view=yes



Nice monitor bud  

X-fire is a whole new place to me though


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 10, 2007)

Dont overclock, its not necessary when you have something like crossfire activated. Atm, no games need that much performance anyway.


----------



## erocker (Apr 10, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> I just got my second HIS X1950 Pro and it's the revision 2 model.  It supports overdrive, and I haven't been able to OC it yet.  I'll be able to run Crossfire mode as soon as my 37" Westinghouse 1080P LCD HDTV arrives tomorrow
> anyone have this model?  My first one overclocks fine, but this one goes black as soon as you run the artifact scanner with any higher clocks than the default 635/742.
> It has the faster 1.2ns memory also, so it should overclock more on the memory......
> http://www.hisdigital.com/html/product_ov.php?id=295&view=yes



I have the AGP model and I can oc.  Did you tick the correct settings in ATiTool?


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 10, 2007)

Yes flashing worked. Post here now if you want to join, i cbf checking my PMs, every PM freaking scares the crap outta me (Zekriphobia)


----------



## binormalkilla (Apr 10, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Dont overclock, its not necessary when you have something like crossfire activated. Atm, no games need that much performance anyway.



I wholeheartedly agree   I'm always looking for a high 3dmark score though.  Also, preparing for games such as Crysis and Enemy Terrirory:  Quake Wars!

My 37" Westy is coming tonight YEEEEESSSSSSSS



> Did you tick the correct settings in ATiTool?


Haven't tried ATI Tool yet.  I've only tried ATI Tray Tools (I used it for my first one) What settings do you tick in ATI Tool?  Also, what version do you have (as in Revision, GDDR rating, etc. )
The AGP has a revision as well.  I'm going to compare the hardware system reports to see if they're different.  Can't do anything now though, as I'm at work.


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 11, 2007)

ATi Tray tools is fucked when I used it, it went my clocks were 900


----------



## Oliver (Apr 11, 2007)

*Wierd*



tkpenalty said:


> ATi Tray tools is fucked when I used it, it went my clocks were 900



Surprising considering ATi tools default settings for our cards is 621/900????


----------



## binormalkilla (Apr 11, 2007)

So what would be the best driver for running Crossfire with the X1950 Pro?  I've been running the 7.1 Warcat because that's the best one for image quality imo.  The 7.2 and 7.3 drivers from ATI or Warcat (no 7.3) really haven't looked that great.  Performance hasn't gained either.  I'm going to try out the 7.3s tonight.


----------



## Alcpone (Apr 11, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> So what would be the best driver for running Crossfire with the X1950 Pro?  I've been running the 7.1 Warcat because that's the best one for image quality imo.  The 7.2 and 7.3 drivers from ATI or Warcat (no 7.3) really haven't looked that great.  Performance hasn't gained either.  I'm going to try out the 7.3s tonight.



I grabbed an extra 36 3d06 marks with ati 7.3 from 7.2, I dont see any performance increase from using 3rd party drivers what so ever, I think its all psychological really lol


----------



## erocker (Apr 11, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> I wholeheartedly agree   I'm always looking for a high 3dmark score though.  Also, preparing for games such as Crysis and Enemy Terrirory:  Quake Wars!
> 
> My 37" Westy is coming tonight YEEEEESSSSSSSS
> 
> ...



I use the newest ATI tools beta.  The option to tick is driverl level overclocking in the settings under the x1000 overclocking menu.  Before I did this I had the same problems as yourself.


----------



## Oliver (Apr 11, 2007)

Alcpone said:


> I grabbed an extra 36 3d06 marks with ati 7.3 from 7.2, I dont see any performance increase from using 3rd party drivers what so ever, I think its all psychological really lol



I agree with you to a certain extent.........having tested 7.3 and bing satisfied but found tha att ran better with warcraft 7.2   

But the difference is very thin and i believe someone that doesn't want to fiddle and diddle with his settings all the time is better of with C 7.3 and thats it (can always keep a copy of ATT handy)


----------



## binormalkilla (Apr 11, 2007)

erocker said:


> I use the newest ATI tools beta.  The option to tick is driverl level overclocking in the settings under the x1000 overclocking menu.  Before I did this I had the same problems as yourself.



Well LOL yea I used driver level overclocking with Tray Tools beta, and the X1000 overclocking menu is ATI Tool, not tray tools.  
I was able to OC my first HIS X1950 Pro to 661.5/823.5 using driver level OCing with either the latest beta or the latest stable version (in the guru3d downloads section)
So when I get home I'll see what's up.
BTW, how do I turn both fans up to %100 when I'm using Crossfire?  The fan on the "slave" card is sucking in hot air directly from the PCB of the "master" (not really since it's no dongle setup)
I may end up placing a 120mm LED fan in the front of both cards


----------



## SpookyWillow (Apr 12, 2007)

binormalkilla your probably better off testing each card thoroughly and then flashing the stable clocks to your bios's.


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 12, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> Well LOL yea I used driver level overclocking with Tray Tools beta, and the X1000 overclocking menu is ATI Tool, not tray tools.
> I was able to OC my first HIS X1950 Pro to 661.5/823.5 using driver level OCing with either the latest beta or the latest stable version (in the guru3d downloads section)
> So when I get home I'll see what's up.
> BTW, how do I turn both fans up to %100 when I'm using Crossfire?  The fan on the "slave" card is sucking in hot air directly from the PCB of the "master" (not really since it's no dongle setup)
> I may end up placing a 120mm LED fan in the front of both cards



Fan control doesnt work. Just flash both cards with 100% fan speed bioses.


----------



## binormalkilla (Apr 13, 2007)

Ok that's a great idea, didn't even think of that (I'm tired)
What app were you guys using for BIOS editing?  I know Ketxxx was editing hexidecimal....but I don't know how to read hex.  
Rabit then ATIFlash?
BTW, the second revision HIS X1950 Pro has 1.2ns memory as opposed to the 1.4ns memory on my first one.  I bet I can get the memory higher on this one.  
Is it true that in Crossfire that the PCI-E 2 card doesn't even get to use it's memoroy?  I heard this from a guy at work


----------



## SpookyWillow (Apr 13, 2007)

yeah just use rabit

i just asked in the other thread if you had the rev2 card and it seems you do lol,

yeah the rev card has slower core speed but it uses faster ram to make up for it. 

and no the ram on the second card is not used, both cards in crossfire will still only have either 256/512mb of ram depending on the card you have.


----------



## binormalkilla (Apr 13, 2007)

Ok nevermind I must not have the second revision, as the card is clocked at 620.  I just have a different BIOS because it supports Overdrive.  It also has the double PCI slot plate instead of the two separate ones.


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 14, 2007)

Guys an update on the club, did it when i was nursing a sore bum after getting smacked by the banstick.



> http://www.formulapc.net/modules/news/images/set06[size=20pt]Radeon X1950~HD Clubhouse [/size]
> 
> This is basically a
> 
> ...



EDIT: New layout for the first post Comment about it, most of the info into one post, i might scrap the idea of the "database thread" as its sorta useless anyway.


----------



## binormalkilla (Apr 14, 2007)

Nice!
I edited my BIOS using Rabit with the fans at 100% (well only one really).  I saved the main one, and it works in realtime.  In order to flash using ATI Flash, I have to make a bootable USB thumb drive (no floppy)
Can I flash with Rabit?  Do I have to use a bootable thumb drive, or can I just run the command from the cmd prompt?
Never done this before


----------



## SpookyWillow (Apr 14, 2007)

cant remember what flash program to use but you have to do it form pure dos,

put the flash prog on the pen drive (that you already made a boot drive) and boot from that


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 14, 2007)

ATIFlash. You have to format your USB drive as a "MS-DOS DISK" in the formatting utility and then add ATI flash and your new and backup bioses Then go to your bios and change your boot priority to "USB device", make sure its the first boot device. Then, boot from it, flash, then reboot, and your good (remember to change the boot order back to normal)


----------



## Batou1986 (Apr 14, 2007)

*BE Gone ugly purple Tec OF doom*






HOORAY ITS GONE


----------



## Alcpone (Apr 14, 2007)

Batou1986 said:


> HOORAY ITS GONE




Cool  

What do you get in 3DMark06? Wanna join the compilation?


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 15, 2007)

Holy shit.. with that fatal1ty cooler... it looks even better on ATI cards... RED RAMsinks... red LED, nickel plated beauty.. Yeah I have to say... THAT IS FUCKING GORGEOUS!  

TEC cooling on GPUs is a no-go.

EDIT: Get yourself a red fatal1ty mobo...Then the Fatal1ty case, then the Fatal1ty CNPS7700CU. I noticed how your motherboard's LCD displayed "69"


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 15, 2007)

Finished updating front page. CHECK IT OUT!!!


----------



## binormalkilla (Apr 15, 2007)

Batou1986 said:


> HOORAY ITS GONE



Hey dude you should mod that A64 Freezer Pro with a Silverstone FM92!  I got way better temps with it.  That stock fan suuuuuucks!  All you need is a 92mm  Silverstone FM92 and some zipties, along with scissors


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 15, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> Hey dude you should mod that A64 Freezer Pro with a Silverstone FM92!  I got way better temps with it.  That stock fan suuuuuucks!  All you need is a 92mm  Silverstone FM92 and some *zipties*, along with scissors



*Black* Zipties.

So what do you think of the new front page layout of the thread guys? Binormalkilla, do you want to join? I'm offering you the option of it 

EDIT: Batou, I updated ur profile.


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 15, 2007)

well... almost 1k posts and almost more views than the AMD OC clubhouse  

(btw if that avatar tricks you.. im a guy... i just realised my avatars were disabled).


----------



## binormalkilla (Apr 15, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> *Black* Zipties.
> 
> So what do you think of the new front page layout of the thread guys? Binormalkilla, do you want to join? I'm offering you the option of it
> 
> EDIT: Batou, I updated ur profile.



Yea sure.  I don't have a really good pic of my card, but here it is under the lights.  I wish I had a shot of my Crossfire setup in my new TT armor 




BTW the new layout for the first page is excellent:  probably the most informative GFX thread I've ever seen.  Cheers for putting forth the effort 
Still haven't been able to OC my cards yet.  I could set the clocks in ATI Tool 0.27b1, but when I turn the artifact scanner on it goes to black screen then resets the driver.  What I'll probably end up doing is flashing the older card that I know OCs to 661.5/810 and set that in PCI-E1, while keeping the other at stock speeds with fan @ %100 for now.  
When I have some more time on my hands I'll toy with the other one.


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 16, 2007)




----------



## binormalkilla (Apr 16, 2007)

Ok cool, thanks it's in my sig now


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 16, 2007)

No problems 

cable managementz0r time!!!


----------



## Oliver (Apr 16, 2007)

*Fed up with OC'ing this card*

Welllllllllll.............I'm getting fed up with this card.Sapphire x1950xt 256

In standard form Ati tool running i'm running default 621/900 no problems with working temps of 64/49~48/44 (with fan running at 41% regulated to keep 50° and running a Zalmann v900CU led (blue by the way)

If I lower my core speed down to 450 say I an ramp up mem to 1008 max best at 999 for benches i runs and temps max out at 91°......but if I save it and want to load it again from a default speed well freeze tear artifact are here and I have to reboot (cold) after having waited for 20mins or so to get the pci-e back to x16 x16 (known asus p5b dlx bug) (not x1 x16 if hot reboot)  

If I lower core Vs and Mem Vs thing are a bit better but still get the same reload pb.........:shadedshu 

It seems i can only mildly overclock to say 648/909 or 621/980.......giving OK'ish benches on 3dmark06 of ~6718


SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO what do you think???? any help.....other than trashing the card and going to 8800gtx   

Thanx 
Oliver


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 16, 2007)

Um your VF900CU is more than likely faulty. Also it dies purely on the fact that it overheated, why do you need to overclock anyway? Don't waste your money on an 8800GTX... its not needed. I pretty much think no games atm need that much beef anyway.

EDIT: Um try turning the fan up to 100%, it works wonders, just realise that you cant control the fan through ATITool. You need to fix the connector to 12v or set fanmate to max, since you are using a VF900CU. You will get worse temperatures with the 8800 just to warn you...


----------



## DOM (Apr 16, 2007)

Oliver said:


> Welllllllllll.............I'm getting fed up with this card.Sapphire x1950xt 256
> 
> In standard form Ati tool running i'm running default 621/900 no problems with working temps of 64/49~48/44 (with fan running at 41% regulated to keep 50° and running a Zalmann v900CU led (blue by the way)
> 
> ...



With the MOBO I save a profile in the bois for the settings on everything and I never have had the problem with the PCI-E at x1 by the way there's two you can save diffrent settings I have 3.2GHz and 3.6GHz settings

And with the card, are you saving the volts settings when making the profiles ?


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 16, 2007)

w00t 1001 and one posts . 

Um Oliver... rather than overclock, get a second X1950XT, RMA the VF900CU you have at the moment as i believe its faulty... It would keep it at 60~70*C not 91*C


----------



## Oliver (Apr 16, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Um your VF900CU is more than likely faulty. Also it dies purely on the fact that it overheated, why do you need to overclock anyway? Don't waste your money on an 8800GTX... its not needed. I pretty much think no games atm need that much beef anyway.
> 
> EDIT: Um try turning the fan up to 100%, it works wonders, just realise that you cant control the fan through ATITool. You need to fix the connector to 12v or set fanmate to max, since you are using a VF900CU. You will get worse temperatures with the 8800 just to warn you...



right and wrong........TK I'll remind you that i modded the Zalman connector and soldered the wires strait to the board for control off the fan........so I'll get it up to 100% through the tool and start from there, even though the atitool is set "try to keep temps at 50°" so the fan WILL ramp up and hit 100% anyways, or so says the tool!!!








OC for the fun and the I like to push limits and see what the stuff has in its guts


----------



## Oliver (Apr 16, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> With the MOBO I save a profile in the bois for the settings on everything and I never have had the problem with the PCI-E at x1 by the way there's two you can save diffrent settings I have 3.2GHz and 3.6GHz settings
> 
> And with the card, are you saving the volts settings when making the profiles ?



Yes 3.44 & 3.7 and yes again volts saved............however oc's are experimental and i don't save i note down its quicker


----------



## Oliver (Apr 16, 2007)

*True*



tkpenalty said:


> w00t 1001 and one posts .
> 
> Um Oliver... rather than overclock, get a second X1950XT, RMA the VF900CU you have at the moment as i believe its faulty... It would keep it at 60~70*C not 91*C



No Rma in view with the mod........but won't die for 35€ I'll get another or resolder the original connector and run it 12v


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 17, 2007)

Oliver said:


> No Rma in view with the mod........but won't die for 35€ I'll get another or resolder the original connector and run it 12v



Run it at the original 12v.. it will do you much better. The Zalman doesnt even have PWM so that explains a lot, its probably running at 5v...


----------



## Oliver (Apr 17, 2007)

*done*



tkpenalty said:


> Run it at the original 12v.. it will do you much better. The Zalman doesnt even have PWM so that explains a lot, its probably running at 5v...



Done......back up at 12v on one of the Be quiet's 12v fan rails.........i'll test the OC ing later got a few of my customers IT requests to fulfill first

Olivier


----------



## Oliver (Apr 17, 2007)

*Hot potato*

That x1950xt is one hot potato!!!!!!

temp v control: 102°
Gpu temp cool......70°
tempchip: 90°

all this while letting artifact scan runnin'.................next step serious oc ing...........looks like the 12v rail for  Zalmann cf900v blue led is the solution after all; so much for the fancy mod I had made.


----------



## DOM (Apr 17, 2007)

Oliver said:


> That x1950xt is one hot potato!!!!!!
> 
> temp v control: 102°
> Gpu temp cool......70°
> ...



that thing getts HOT   my VC only gone up to say in the 50's, card 50's and low 60's 

cuz what kind of temps are you getting in the room its in


----------



## Oliver (Apr 17, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> that thing getts HOT   my VC only gone up to say in the 50's, card 50's and low 60's
> 
> cuz what kind of temps are you getting in the room its in



Warm april worlds getting warmer.........might plug the whole earth on WC  

Room temp is cooler now 'bout 23° C but I had been reading the artifact scan with a 641.25/927 setup  and that really heats it up I guess especially if you let run a bit, like a burn in process


----------



## mullered07 (Apr 17, 2007)

ok decided to show my face up in here have been installing my acceleroX2 today and so far im quite impressed with the temps although i might have to take it off later and reseat as im not to sure wether the memory thermal pads are all making contact (there not that sticky thats the only downside to the accelero) as i had some lovely (sarccasm :shadedshu ) couloured lines in ccc.exe when using over drive on the mem. i might try giving 3dmark a go with an oc and see how it goes first as it might just be ccc ati drivers arent playing for me at all? 

anyway im rambling heres a pic or 2 of my acceleroX2 and x1950pro


----------



## DOM (Apr 17, 2007)

Oliver said:


> Warm april worlds getting warmer.........might plug the whole earth on WC


 isnt it already on water



Oliver said:


> Room temp is cooler now 'bout 23° C but I had been reading the artifact scan with a 641.25/927 setup  and that really heats it up I guess especially if you let run a bit, like a burn in process



well mine's like 20-25° C and when folding at 675/972 on stock volts  it get in the low 60's, but my speed on the mem when I 1st got it wouldnt go passed 945 untill later I guess it needs to broken in   

But I thought that the stock cooler it better then the vf900cu but it louder, cuz have you used it before putting on the vf900cu ?

But you seen my cooler right ? HIS IceQ3 Turbo, im gald I didnt go with the vf900cu


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 18, 2007)

mullered07 said:


> ok decided to show my face up in here have been installing my acceleroX2 today and so far im quite impressed with the temps although i might have to take it off later and reseat as im not to sure wether the memory thermal pads are all making contact (there not that sticky thats the only downside to the accelero) as i had some lovely (sarccasm :shadedshu ) couloured lines in ccc.exe when using over drive on the mem. i might try giving 3dmark a go with an oc and see how it goes first as it might just be ccc ati drivers arent playing for me at all?
> 
> anyway im rambling heres a pic or 2 of my acceleroX2 and x1950pro



They were never supposed to be sticky, tighten it a tiny bit more. Only thing is, did you remove the seal off the memory stickers?  

Apart from that, i was joking but it wouldnt really matter because GDDR3 chips don't run hot at all. Its more of driver issues, CCC's overdrive is really dodgy so dont worry.



DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> isnt it already on water
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think I know what you mean, thermal load. Nothing to do with the speed in which it removes heat... while the VF900CU is fast at moving heat... it has bottlenecks; the fact that the base itself isnt connected to the copper fins. The AcceleroX2 does a bit better keeping it in the high 50~60s, i think its to do with how much material is used to dissipate heat is one of the factors.


----------



## mullered07 (Apr 18, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> They were never supposed to be sticky, tighten it a tiny bit more. Only thing is, did you remove the seal off the memory stickers?
> 
> Apart from that, i was joking but it wouldnt really matter because GDDR3 chips don't run hot at all. Its more of driver issues, CCC's overdrive is really dodgy so dont worry.



tk dont make me slap you lol of course i removed the seal   just card is acting quite weird after the accelerox2 even tho temps are like 38c idle and 54c max load.

anyway am i in the club ?


----------



## Garb3 (Apr 18, 2007)

just a quick question i just bought an msi x1950 pro and was wondering what temps u lot are gettin cause mine idle's at 36 and under load its at about 49 are these temp around about normal i know most of u have different coolers like the accelero 2 and zalmans but i would still like to know what yer all gettin


----------



## mullered07 (Apr 18, 2007)

Garb3 said:


> just a quick question i just bought an msi x1950 pro and was wondering what temps u lot are gettin cause mine idle's at 36 and under load its at about 49 are these temp around about normal i know most of u have different coolers like the accelero 2 and zalmans but i would still like to know what yer all gettin



them temps are sweet, what cooler does it have ? thats cooler than my accelero


----------



## anticlutch (Apr 18, 2007)

40C idle and 59C load with a stock ASUS x1950pro cooler 

I couldn't stand how hot my 8800 was running so I stuck my x1950pro back in until I can get my hands on a R600 card


----------



## Garb3 (Apr 18, 2007)

its just a stock cooler that i got with it the load temp was when i was playin oblivion if it makes any differance the cooler that i got is the one in this pic:
http://www.dabs.com/productview.asp...lectedId=11137&PageMode=1&NavigationKey=11137

hope that help you see what cooler i got i was thinking about gettin and accelero2 or zalman thats why i asked about the temps


----------



## demonbrawn (Apr 18, 2007)

I have an HIS with IceQ3 on it. My room temp is about 74 degrees F. and my card runs 33 degrees C. idle and 47 under load while playing F.E.A.R. I wonder what it would be if I lapped the GPU and cooler and put some AS5 on it.


----------



## Garb3 (Apr 18, 2007)

that seems like a good idea cause i bought some new thermal paste what i bought the card but just cant be bothered taking the card out and doin it knowing that the temps really arent that bad does anyone know where i can buy the thermalright HR-03 that ships to england cause i would be really interested in gettin one


----------



## clockwiseCANUCk (Apr 18, 2007)

Have a sapphire x1950xt ( will take some picture soon) and was wondering what fan control settings people are using in ati tool. Cause right now i'm just using "Try to keep GPU temperature at: 70C" which at the moment has my idle temp at 51C and 50% fan speed. 
The stock dynamic setup was pretty funky:
above 0C 27% fan speed 
above 70C 32% fan speed 
above 80C 36% fan speed 
above 88C 50% fan speed 
above 91C 55% fan speed
above 94C 59% fan speed 
above 97C 68% fan speed
above 100C 100% fan speed

Is ATItraytools still causing crashes with the x1950 or is it save to use?And is the fan suppose to speed up when you close ati tool?


----------



## Garb3 (Apr 18, 2007)

i used atitool to put my fan at 100% all the time cause i play oblivion alot and thoght it would be taxing on my card.
i've only ever had one crash so far bwith ati tool and that was only when i open my tv application


----------



## anticlutch (Apr 18, 2007)

Mine is:
above 0C  11%
above 20C 20%
above 42C 20%
above 45C 30%
above 48C 50%
above 53C 78%
above 59C 100%

Keeps me at the aforementioned 40C idle and 59C load


----------



## Batou1986 (Apr 18, 2007)

ah yes once again it is time for some more XT-X porn told you the better pic's where coming 
















notice my my VRM's Are on the back, weird

last pic shows all the extra shit added to the board to run the tec cooler 2x normal ati 3pin fan headers, power connection for the TEC (Big 2 pin)   and connector (small 2 pin) some sensor on the tec for the MACS chip


----------



## Oliver (Apr 18, 2007)

*Strange XT.........*

Here's mine (men have always liked to compare   )












very different x1950xt sapphire


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 19, 2007)

Batou1986 said:


> ah yes once again it is time for some more XT-X porn told you the better pic's where coming
> <Images cropped>
> notice my my VRM's Are on the back, weird
> 
> last pic shows all the extra shit added to the board to run the tec cooler 2x normal ati 3pin fan headers, power connection for the TEC (Big 2 pin)   and connector (small 2 pin) some sensor on the tec for the MACS chip



They aren't VRMs they are MOFSETs, GECUBE went for power coils and capacitors... it overall makes the card have to be much longer. VRM chips (power filters), do the role that Capacitors and Mofsets do.



mullered07 said:


> them temps are sweet, what cooler does it have ? thats cooler than my accelero



Nah... dodgy temperature monitors are one of the causes.

Oliver, your GPU btw, It runs much hotter than Batou's X1950XT, his ones a X1950XT-X


----------



## Oliver (Apr 19, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Oliver, your GPU btw, It runs much hotter than Batou's X1950XT, his ones a X1950XT-X



It got MUCH better now that i'm running back on a 12v rail and repasted the Gpu and thingies under the red rail ........40-44 unloaded high 70's or more when pushing it hard.

However the oc's are nor very good yet highest so far 661/954 with difficulties (ANY SUGGESTIONS OUT THERE  ), I've switched back to warcat 7.3 because they are better than ATI original to my taste (plus i like custom; same for my boards, truck, mtnbikes etc..  .)


----------



## DOM (Apr 19, 2007)

Wut are your vots at, are you using ATITool 0.26 ?  How long have you had it ?


----------



## Oliver (Apr 19, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> Wut are your vots at, are you using ATITool 0.26 ?  How long have you had it ?



warcat 7.3, Ati Tool 0.26, VGPU=1.400v;MVDDC=2.086v;MVDDQ=2.086v; VDDCI=1.486v

You have it all..............it tears up bout 661/954.......but not enough to lose it and reboot the card.


----------



## DOM (Apr 19, 2007)

Well those are not the stock 3D volts I get on ATITool heres mine in the pic just the VDDCI is the same  

How long have you had it ? cuz mine at first the mem didnt OC that much at stock volts, but now after 3mounths I get 972 on the mem at stock


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 21, 2007)

What do you guys reckon is the best driver for the X1950PRO? Frick after testing the whole night the 7.1 Drivers are taboo... they seriously cause so many problems when im trying to game.


----------



## anticlutch (Apr 21, 2007)

Warcats 7.1 seem to give me the best performance on XP Pro SP2 with no problems for me...


----------



## Kursah (Apr 21, 2007)

So far 7.4's seem to be best performing for me. All my 3dmark scores increased by a few points of any other drivers I've tried.


----------



## demonbrawn (Apr 21, 2007)

For some reason, I couldn't even get past post in normal mode without the 7.3 drivers when I first got my X1950pro.


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 21, 2007)

anticlutch said:


> Warcats 7.1 seem to give me the best performance on XP Pro SP2 with no problems for me...



Try running HL2:EP1...


----------



## anticlutch (Apr 21, 2007)

I did and nothing was wrong... what happens when you try to play it?


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 21, 2007)

Um... whole game screws up... everything is stuffed.


----------



## Batou1986 (Apr 21, 2007)

drivers made specifically for the 1950 pro series http://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&questionID=23582
hope that helps


----------



## Oliver (Apr 21, 2007)

*core value??*



DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> Well those are not the stock 3D volts I get on ATITool heres mine in the pic just the VDDCI is the same
> 
> How long have you had it ? cuz mine at first the mem didnt OC that much at stock volts, but now after 3mounths I get 972 on the mem at stock



With what core do you get 927........can't seem to go over 940..........mem at 621 core


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 22, 2007)

Batou1986 said:


> drivers made specifically for the 1950 pro series http://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&questionID=23582
> hope that helps



Sorry to say but these are the normal catalyst drivers....


----------



## erocker (Apr 22, 2007)

I was just wondering... After "the launch" as I am dubbing ATi's HD 2xxx xxx release, how many of you are getting one as fast as they can?  I'm waiting till around December for my AMD Quad / HD2???XT? setup.  I really want to wait for that 65nm gpu.  Screw fusion when you have gpu/ppu/sound all on one card.  They might as well start putting everything into the mobo without the PCI's, PCI express and what-not.  A socket for everything like current cpu's.  OK stupid rant.  I can't wait for the end of the year!


----------



## DOM (Apr 22, 2007)

Oliver said:


> With what core do you get 927........can't seem to go over 940..........mem at 621 core



im not try to be rude but didnt you under stand wut I said ?  the volts in that pic is wut I get for stock 3D volts and I get 675core/972mem but that was after 3 mouths before that it was 945mem but now its 972mem on stock 3D volts


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 22, 2007)

erocker said:


> I was just wondering... After "the launch" as I am dubbing ATi's HD 2xxx xxx release, how many of you are getting one as fast as they can?  I'm waiting till around December for my AMD Quad / HD2???XT? setup.  I really want to wait for that 65nm gpu.  Screw fusion when you have gpu/ppu/sound all on one card.  They might as well start putting everything into the mobo without the PCI's, PCI express and what-not.  A socket for everything like current cpu's.  OK stupid rant.  I can't wait for the end of the year!



Ur still in the clubhouse if u get one, this is a HD clubhouse as well


----------



## Lt_JWS (Apr 22, 2007)

Just got an ATI X1950Pro 256mb  woot


----------



## Oliver (Apr 22, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> im not try to be rude but didnt you under stand wut I said ?  the volts in that pic is wut I get for stock 3D volts and I get 675core/972mem but that was after 3 mouths before that it was 945mem but now its 972mem on stock 3D volts



Ok got that......guess the stock volts from HIS are higher than Sapphires??? I'll wait for things to settle a bit more and if nothing gets better the VF is going out and the stock cooler back in, its nicely bundled in drawer for now.

Anyways most games I play are fine as is, mainly combat flight sims & HMM and starting out EVE.

Take care


----------



## erocker (Apr 22, 2007)

So... after lapping my heatsink (twice):shadedshu this is what I get:  The card idles at 34c and never goes above 51c with ATi tool.  During games like BF2142 and Vanguard it never gets above 41c!

GPU:  634.5

Mem 774.5
AtiTool .27b


----------



## Oliver (Apr 22, 2007)

*Sapphire?!?!*

Ok i've got it .............. oc to all your speeds no problemo.......

It was sitting right in my face: run Sapphire drivers!!!!

Those *!?*!!*$$!!holes must have a specific driver written out for their layout but it works catalyst 6.10 drivers 6.14 sapphire specific it seems 

Finally that card is giving what its worth!!!

Sheeeeez

Oliver (looks like we're getting a new president soon )


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 23, 2007)

======================================================================
Things requested for TPU members to do: FIVE STAR THIS THREAD FFS
Things requested for Moderator to fix: Change the title to the X1950~HD Clubhouse.
======================================================================


----------



## anticlutch (Apr 23, 2007)

Bah. I wish I could vote again but it won't let me


----------



## dashsmashed (Apr 24, 2007)

Oliver said:


> Ok i've got it .............. oc to all your speeds no problemo.......
> 
> It was sitting right in my face: run Sapphire drivers!!!!
> 
> ...



any chance of a link to the sapphire drivers?


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 25, 2007)

Sapphire drivers are identical. Oliver, use the 6.12 drivers (I assume you are atm) they are the most stable for the X1950PRO atm and everything works on the 6.12 drivers.


----------



## Kursah (Apr 25, 2007)

Well I'm gonna test this out for Powercolor then...Seems they have a recently released version for 7.2 cats for XP, but I just reconverted to Vista to try and fight the bugs I went back to XP for (set it up on a seperate HD so I can hook it up and go if I want...old IDE though..I currently use SATAII ACHI). But this is the best way for me to get 6.12's for Vista! So maybe I'll be more fortunate with my OC's in Vista. I'll post back later...


----------



## Lopey (Apr 25, 2007)

G'Day All

I'm in hell...here goes,
Have 2 HISX1950Pro 256M cards - 1 has copper heatsink at rear over VRM's? while the other has main heatsink covering all the back.
Crossfire works great up to 1280*1024, anything over & I get double pictures with horizontal strips of distorted images going up and down screen.Hitting C+Alt+Del shows a perfect still picture for a second then exits program. 3DMarks is the same BUT still gives me scores.
Have re-installed Windows / Drivers etc etc.
Have used Atiflash 3.3 to get info on both cards:

Adaptor No:                   0                                                  1
Product Name: 113-00SE1H05-00R-HT  X1950 256M/256B DLDVI-I/VIVO/DLDVI-I
                     690M / 575E
Bios Config File:     SE1H05.00R
Bios Part No:         123-00SE1H05-00R
Bios Version:         009.013.001.012.022039
Bios Date:            11/2/06

Adaptor No:                   1
Product Name:  113-00SE1H11-10R-HT X1950PRO 256M/256B DLDVI-I/TV/DLDVI-I
                     690M / 575E
Bios Config File:     SE1H11.10R
Bios Part No:         not available
Bios Version:         009.013.001.022.023607
Bios Date:            2/5/07

Have read all pages of this thread & ended up with 6 BIOs's and a mild head-ache.
Was ready to flash latest Bios to 1st Card but I don't like the look of Part # being un-available.I can force while by-passing P/N check, but is that a good idea ?
System Specs: X2 4200+ / Asus M2R32-MVP M/B  / 2G Geil DDR667 / Sony 21" Trinitron Monitor - 7.4 drivers.
I have DOS floppy with atiflash and copies of my existing bios's - now what ???
Really appreciate any help (after 10days of this I am going crazy)
Cheers


----------



## bundlebr (Apr 25, 2007)

Lopey said:


> G'Day All
> 
> I'm in hell...here goes,
> Have 2 HISX1950Pro 256M cards - 1 has copper heatsink at rear over VRM's? while the other has main heatsink covering all the back.
> ...



Yeah, you can try flashing same bios to both cards (preferably the newest one). That's what I've done here: http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=27579

But, your problem might be that the first card is VIVO, while the second is not...


----------



## Lopey (Apr 25, 2007)

Yeah, you can try flashing same bios to both cards (preferably the newest one). That's what I've done here: http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=27579

But, your problem might be that the first card is VIVO, while the second is not...
____________________________

Thanks for reply, I was hoping that the VIVO / TV thingy would not be prob.
Will have a go & see what happens.
Cheers


----------



## Lopey (Apr 25, 2007)

Me Again,

Just a thought with the VIVO/TV..what if I disabled both TV & VIVO in BIOS & then flash both cards ?
Or is that a dumb idea?

Cheers


----------



## bundlebr (Apr 25, 2007)

I think that you can just flash the bios from non-VIVO card to the VIVO card...


----------



## Lopey (Apr 25, 2007)

It works! HOLY FLIPPIN DUCK POO BATMAN - thanks for help - now back to the zone for me.


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 25, 2007)

Lopey said:


> It works! HOLY FLIPPIN DUCK POO BATMAN - thanks for help - now back to the zone for me.



Congrats


----------



## bundlebr (Apr 25, 2007)

Lopey said:


> It works! HOLY FLIPPIN DUCK POO BATMAN - thanks for help - now back to the zone for me.



NM, have fun!


----------



## Batou1986 (Apr 25, 2007)

*How the tec is made*

Well heres how that Gecube/MACS tec cooler is made its a tec device sandwiched between 2 heat pipe coolers










there was  thermal paste on either side of it (Barely) and it also has a some kind of temperature monitoring diode inside a cut out on the bottom of the heatsink 

all that crap connects to what is basically this:





 which comes with the Titan Amanda cpu cooler only it has been built in to my 1950xt 

with that in mind what kinda voltages and stuff do i need to feed a tec of this size to make it work well i might try putting it between my core and vf-900


----------



## Oliver (Apr 25, 2007)

*Off the CD*



dashsmashed said:


> any chance of a link to the sapphire drivers?



Nope............and the system is experiencing a major crash anyways.....looks like a format


----------



## Batou1986 (Apr 27, 2007)

all X19xx owners avoid the 7.4's as they are causing numerous problems from low fps crashing stuttering hdr+aa problems ect


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 27, 2007)

... yeah... nfsc barely ran without lag.


----------



## SpookyWillow (Apr 27, 2007)

im using the 7.4's too and i noticed a huge fps slowdown on cs source too, especially when i get flashed.


----------



## Batou1986 (Apr 28, 2007)

whats the first driver version to add support for the 1950 series


----------



## DOM (Apr 28, 2007)

Batou1986 said:


> whats the first driver version to add support for the 1950 series



Catalyst 6.4 for Windows XP and Vista 32bit was Catalyst 7.1

why ?


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 29, 2007)

The 6.xx drivers blow the 7.xx drivers to hell.

http://service.futuremark.com/orb/resultanalyzer.jsp?projectType=12&XLID=0&UID=9032341

LOL I BEAT A E6700 rig

http://service.futuremark.com/orb/resultanalyzer.jsp?projectType=12&XLID=0&UID=9032341


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 29, 2007)

Batou1986 said:


> there was  thermal paste on either side of it (Barely) and it also has a some kind of temperature monitoring diode inside a cut out on the bottom of the heatsink
> 
> all that crap connects to what is basically this:
> 
> ...



Really odd, the TEC cooler should kick the VF900CU's ass... thermalpaste or bad mounting may be the culpruit. That TEC plate would be useful for cooling a HDD or something.


----------



## DOM (Apr 29, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> The 6.xx drivers blow the 7.xx drivers to hell.
> 
> http://service.futuremark.com/orb/resultanalyzer.jsp?projectType=12&XLID=0&UID=9032341
> 
> ...



are they supose to be the same site ?

lol you beat it cuz your cpu was oced and it was stock, why dont you oc your card ?


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 29, 2007)

Cause my card kicks and whines when i overclock. I cant explain it... my RAM doesnt like DDR400 speeds nor does my CPU like getting Overclocked past 2.8Ghz... its probably the RAM's fault anyway. 

Nevertheless i dont like the idea of flashing...

Honestly every time I ask "What is the best driver for the X1950PRO" I always find the thread goes off topic... Right now I am using Omega 7.3 Drivers... I find it weird that the performance has decreased, the stock CD Drivers seem to be the drivers I have had least problems with, I might as well give it a go. 

Apart from that, I find it really irritating that around three gross of imformation on Ketxxx's bios thread is not organized, it is agony going through all the information, just searching for it makes me do a backflip, that is why i dont overclock. X1950PRO's overclock is heavily hampered by the fact that you can't change the voltages without the need of flashing... apparently, the GPU artifacts are caused by voltages and not heat. 

In my opinion, Ketxxx should compile all his bioses into the front page neatly... or I might as well do it myself, putting bioses on the front page that i dont even know if they work or not, but I have exams soon and my godly 8.88 ppd will falter. 

I did do an experiment today, removed the front panel and finally felt air entering from the front intake, I might mod the case so it looks like a  lian li ripoff...now back to the story, at medium fanspeeds, with the undisturbed intake (no HDDs "down there"), i felt the acceleleroX2's exaust being pushed out. The whole case cooled down even more , the GPU dropped to 35*C (take that IceQ'ers and the load temp was a cool 49*C after half an hour of furry cube paradise.

then my friend talked to me.his Sapphire; VRM Model type was in a "Normal" situation (um paranormal to average joes LOL), 120mm outtake, plate covers still on, ur average 80mm intake on the Centurion 5, reached 76*C with the normal fan control ... this was after five minutes... god knows how hot it would have run... the idle was pretty awful as well, being at 62*C. Well i told him to run it on dustbuster... temps dropped to 69*C  , still pretty bad, 76*C is just asking to be fucked (no not like that  ). Man figures i dont know how bad stock cooling is...


----------



## Oliver (Apr 29, 2007)

*Back from up the creek......*

Up and running again.......(inherited a WD 75Go Raptor for the boot disk see the mods herehttp://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/711)

Kicked out Ati tool and all means of OC of the gpu other than ccc overdrive; running 7.3 cats stock at 655core 927 mem application run settings for AA AF and thats all and result are pretty decent.

22824 in 3DMark 03
13219 in 3DMark 05
6829 in 3DMark 06

I might even take of the Zalmann and remount the standard cooler for a checkrun 

right now playing around with ahci/ncq settings...........even wrote a small tuto here

http://www.bleedinedge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30865


----------



## DOM (Apr 29, 2007)

Oliver said:


> Up and running again.......(inherited a WD 75Go Raptor for the boot disk see the mods herehttp://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/711)
> 
> Kicked out Ati tool and all means of OC of the gpu other than ccc overdrive; running 7.3 cats stock at 655core 927 mem application run settings for AA AF and thats all and result are pretty decent.
> 
> ...



So was it ATITool crashing your system ? Or your card didnt like ATItool ?

Are you always runing you CPU @ 3.7GHz ? What kind of temps do you get and how much volts are you puting to it ?


----------



## Oliver (Apr 29, 2007)

*Double settings w p5b*



DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> So was it ATITool crashing your system ? Or your card didnt like ATItool ?
> 
> Are you always runing you CPU @ 3.7GHz ? What kind of temps do you get and how much volts are you puting to it ?



No my standard setting is 3447.78 thats 383.1 x 9 which gives a rated fsb of 1532.3 (quad pumped)

mem volts: 2.15; vcore 1.45; fsb term 1.30; nbvcore 1.45; sbvcore 1.60........

temps: idle or low usage:  CPU 41°; Mobo 38° (edit: make that 40/36........theres a storm outside and the windows open haha!!)

The 3.7 is for fun........same volts same temps but unstable nevertheless and not much faster

I don't exactly know what crashed the system but i suspect it originated in ATI / ATITOOL conflict when uninstalling Cat 7.4 to move back to Warcats 7.3........and i used a friggin' cleanin tool (either drivercleaner or cc cleaner used both)which i NEVER use preferably cleaning out manually........:shadedshu 

all i do know is that the registry was really corrupted and instead of rebuilding and having a system running slow i chose to format, add an extra disk (wd 75Go Raptor    )for the system/boot and use the 400Go seagate as storage/backup   

Now all is nice, smooth, fast............yeah


----------



## anticlutch (Apr 29, 2007)

@ tkpenalty: I think the driver that gave the best performance was the 7.1 Warcat driver. I would consistantly get over 200fps+ in the CS:S stress test with all the settings that had the * on it, while stock ATI drivers would only let me get around 180-190fps.


----------



## Oliver (Apr 29, 2007)

anticlutch said:


> @ tkpenalty: I think the driver that gave the best performance was the 7.1 Warcat driver. I would consistantly get over 200fps+ in the CS:S stress test with all the settings that had the * on it, while stock ATI drivers would only let me get around 180-190fps.



True,  but the warcats are not as nice eyecandywise..............but thats irrelevant 'cause eye candy obviously comes from Gpu+screen+ambient light+ user's personal tastes

thats why, as far as I'm concerned, the best to this date are (for the sapphire x1950xt card) sapphires 6.12, and ati's 7.3.............


----------



## DOM (Apr 29, 2007)

Well the ? is in the PIC   so would some Ramsinks work or are they okay with out anything ? Or is there something that would work better then these http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3811


----------



## TonyStark (Apr 30, 2007)

Hey guys.

Does anyone have any tips on overclocking the memory on a x1950PRO? I can get the core up to 661MHz no problem -- but the max stable memory clock is 722MHz.


----------



## Kursah (Apr 30, 2007)

What kind of x1950 do you have? brand? cooler? drivers? OS? PSU? You should update and use your system specs. Are you using ATI Tool? Overdrive? Need more info on how you're OC-ing and what you have in order to help you get a better OC. I wish my x1950pro would get to 661 GPU stable...still a damn good card even at stock though.


----------



## TonyStark (Apr 30, 2007)

Hey Kursah

I have the Powercolor extreme 256MB with the AC x2 cooler. I've used ATI Tool, ATI Tray Tools and WinClk -- all with the same results. Overdrive takes me to about 621/749 but it is unstable in games like Oblivion.

-PSU has 36Amps on the 12v rail. Or 2-20Amp rails. 
-Windows XP
-Core 2 Duo E4300 @ 2.99 GHz
-2 GB Samsung RAM @ 667MHz, 4-4-4-12


----------



## Oliver (Apr 30, 2007)

*Specs for u*



DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> So was it ATITool crashing your system ? Or your card didnt like ATItool ?
> 
> Are you always runing you CPU @ 3.7GHz ? What kind of temps do you get and how much volts are you puting to it ?



@DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E: I knew I had posted my specs somewhere

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=29658


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 30, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> Well the ? is in the PIC   so would some Ramsinks work or are they okay with out anything ? Or is there something that would work better then these http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3811




No, the heatsink next to those chips are the chips that need heatsinking. You can if you want, it won't really improve stability. What I recommend is to change the heatsink used on the VRMS (next to the pulse chip, under heatsink), to some swiftec, stick them on with EPOXY or thin thermal tape.

Oliver, downclock it...


----------



## Oliver (Apr 30, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> No, the heatsink next to those chips are the chips that need heatsinking. You can if you want, it won't really improve stability. What I recommend is to change the heatsink used on the VRMS (next to the pulse chip, under heatsink), to some swiftec, stick them on with EPOXY or thin thermal tape.
> 
> Oliver, downclock it...



Noooo Waaay Joseeeee.......

In fact eveything seems to run stable now, obviously the milder settings are better 'cause my 3.7 settings are quite aggressive..........but i'll work around using this:

http://supermattt.free.fr/OC/OC_C2D_P965.xls

better know your FSB, CPU and Mem limits before buts its really handy: only change the right hand side values and let the spreadsheet do the calculations

After that you can play with ATI............


----------



## vkbms (Apr 30, 2007)

Hi,

I own a Sapphire 1950pro 256 stock....

I'm using Ati Tool 0.27beta and Catalyst 7.1 (i0ve tried also 7.4) ....

When i try to increase frequency they go up with 6,5mhz step for core and 4,5mhz step for memory....

There's a way to increase frequency by smaller steps?

I hope you understand.-...sorry for my english....


----------



## Oliver (Apr 30, 2007)

*Yeah*



vkbms said:


> Hi,
> 
> I own a Sapphire 1950pro 256 stock....
> 
> ...



yeah in the settings x1000 overclock you can switch to finer settings........


----------



## vkbms (Apr 30, 2007)

Oliver said:


> yeah in the settings x1000 overclock you can switch to finer settings........





Ops....i'll see it only now....  

But switching finer settings i can't increase memory frequency.... onle one mhz up and system crash


----------



## Oliver (Apr 30, 2007)

*Typical*



vkbms said:


> Ops....i'll see it only now....
> 
> But switching finer settings i can't increase memory frequency.... onle one mhz up and system crash



Been there done that..............best way is to lower your core a bit and work, your mem from there. Remember you are generating Heat and will hit a limit then you can lower your volts a bit............

I'd do it the standard way:

Find max core,
Find max mem,

Settle for a bit less: those are your benchmark settings

Find nice easy, but fast settings: those are your 24/7 settings

Have fun


----------



## erocker (Apr 30, 2007)

Your Sapphire card's cooler is too crappy to bother overclocking.


----------



## Oliver (Apr 30, 2007)

Hey VKBMS tell us: is it a Pro or Pro ultimate with the VF900 Zalmann...........erocker has a point there......


----------



## vkbms (Apr 30, 2007)

erocker said:


> Your Sapphire card's cooler is too crappy to bother overclocking.




I know.... i've a Dtek Mp01 and Dtek Fuzion Gtx waiting....  

But i've to do a comparison between two waterblocks and stock cooler.... 

@Oliver:

I'm trying....but find max core/mem seems not work fine.... 

It's a pro... no vf900....


----------



## Oliver (Apr 30, 2007)

*Just wondering*

Ha!

I just unstuck the Sapphire sticker of the cooler module taken off my x1950xt: surprise its a stock ATI card......I wonder if those people just stick stickers and resell or if they write anything????

I mean: the cd has a bunch of software strait from ATI (not even up to date) The card/cooler/heatsink(s) combo is basic ATI (no fancy cooler as with HIS or Powercooler not that they are much better but they innovate)

I doesn't even seem the Bios was modified or anything fancy?????

Ok the card is good but why not try to make it better and add some value to compensate for the marked up price compared to stock ATI.......

after all if you buy a Mercedes 500 sl its a great car..........get an AMG modified and its a rocket


----------



## Oliver (May 2, 2007)

*ATI Cooling unit rebuild*

Ok guys after ranting about the sapphire tricks here's something more constructive:

Y'all know I replaced my oem cooler by a Zalman vf900 cu led...........satisfying but not A OK so I decided to look into that oem thing and see if it could be made better:

First of all it took off the sapphire sticker and regained the assassin....she was in disguise i guess ....cool

Next i took it all apart and discovered a great copper cooler held down with spring loaded screws and HEATPIPES yessss...thanks ATI......

I cleaned it all out with industrial degreaser and isoprop alcohol

Then I peeled off the transparent plastic sticker on the other side (aluminum) and worked the sticky gook off (with sticker remover) after having removed and saved the thermal pads with a sharp knife. same cleaning method

next i'll lap the copper cooler and remount the thing (gotta go to the hardware store to get some 300  600 and 900 grit )

I'll give you test results as soon as I have them 

I wouldn't be surprised getting very close to the zalmann even better!!!!

pictures:


----------



## Ketxxx (May 3, 2007)

Hmm.... I wouldnt be so confident that cooler will do a better job than the Zalman, largely because of the crappy thermal pads. Oh and FYI, I can join the clubhouse proper now I think  after months of tweakin I finally made the Xpertvision BIOS good on my card, runs significantly tighter timings to stock now, hence better performance with that alone, not to mention I lifted a good chunk of the "thou shalt not OC this card" veil, and most importantly its stable now


----------



## DaMulta (May 3, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> Well the ? is in the PIC   so would some Ramsinks work or are they okay with out anything ? Or is there something that would work better then these http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3811


A friend of mine left those heatsinks off(x1950XTX) and it spit out a 1 in flame and welded the card. So I would say yes.


----------



## DOM (May 3, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> A friend of mine left those heatsinks off(x1950XTX) and it spit out a 1 in flame and welded the card. So I would say yes.



Well it does'nt have a HS on it, that HS in the pic is for the MEM only cuz I was asking about the Pulse chips, or are you saying about the VRMS under that lil HS next to the Pulse chips ?


----------



## DaMulta (May 3, 2007)

Vrms


----------



## DOM (May 3, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> Vrms



yeah Im thinking of leaving the stock HS on there but dont know whats better cuz i was looking at this http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=43&products_id=21214


----------



## tkpenalty (May 3, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> Hmm.... I wouldnt be so confident that cooler will do a better job than the Zalman, largely because of the crappy thermal pads. Oh and FYI, I can join the clubhouse proper now I think  after months of tweakin I finally made the Xpertvision BIOS good on my card, runs significantly tighter timings to stock now, hence better performance with that alone, not to mention I lifted a good chunk of the "thou shalt not OC this card" veil, and most importantly its stable now




you were always allowed to join...


----------



## Ketxxx (May 3, 2007)

Not in my book. I have my own filters too  being able to join a club without properly working hardware jus a bit skiwif to me  but all is well now it would seem.


----------



## Garb3 (May 4, 2007)

hello guys i bought x1950 pro a few weeks back and i got to admit this card is the best i have ever had but my stock clocks are a bit less than what u guys get (gpu-573 mem-1363) and was wondering is there i way the flash my card with a new bios with clocks about gpu-620 mem-1400 without using a floppy drive cause i dont have 1. i read at the beginin of the nthread that someone did it with a boot cd and would that work for me???

really would like your thoughts thanks


----------



## tkpenalty (May 4, 2007)

here's a guy who didnt read ANYTHING before buying the AcceleroX2



Lt_JWS said:


> Well since i cant get crossfire to work I need to get rid of this card fast.  Its just a bare card with the AC Accelero and 1 New HIS Crossfire bridge.
> 
> $130 + Shipping in the US



Notice the missing heatsinks for the VRM.


----------



## tkpenalty (May 4, 2007)

Garb3 said:


> hello guys i bought x1950 pro a few weeks back and i got to admit this card is the best i have ever had but my stock clocks are a bit less than what u guys get (gpu-573 mem-1363) and was wondering is there i way the flash my card with a new bios with clocks about gpu-620 mem-1400 without using a floppy drive cause i dont have 1. i read at the beginin of the nthread that someone did it with a boot cd and would that work for me???
> 
> really would like your thoughts thanks



You will have to raise your Voltages to even get that overclock.


----------



## Lt_JWS (May 5, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> here's a guy who didnt read ANYTHING before buying the AcceleroX2
> 
> 
> 
> Notice the missing heatsinks for the VRM.



Wow thanks for pointing out i can't read :shadedshu


----------



## tkpenalty (May 5, 2007)

Why did u want to sell it anyway?


----------



## DOM (May 5, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Why did u want to sell it anyway?



he cant get CF to work 

X1950pro Crossfire Problems.... 
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=30518


----------



## tkpenalty (May 6, 2007)

Processor might explain something -_-


----------



## Garb3 (May 6, 2007)

are the vrm's just above the pulse chip?

edit: on a different not when i oc my card at driver level with atitool then put the furry cube on after like 30secs or so i get a vpu recovery error does that mean that its not stable at the clocks i put it at


----------



## wolf (May 7, 2007)

hey all, im a new proud owner of a x1950, and i thought here would be a great place to get some advice, ive owned alot of gfx cards, mx440, ti4400, fx5600, 9200, 9600, 9800, 6600 and 6800 to name a few, and i was heavily into modding (bios, cooling, clocking) my 6800 ultra back in the day, but i lack ati modding exp, which is why im here.

i own a Sapphire radeon X1950PRO AGP 512 GDDR3

as we all know the stock cooler is .... well not even worth words.

so far i have affixed a Zalman Fatal1ty FC-ZV9 (with arctic silver 5), the ramsinks, and ramsinks to the VRM's with Artic Silver thermal Adhesive.

so far no combination of drivers and/or ati tool has heeded any overclock, not even 1 mhz before big artifact's and system crashes.

while the card was apart i noticed the ram specification " K4J52324QC-BJ11 "

which ive reasearched to be 1.1ns (duh!) and capable of 1800 mhz, yet the card comes with the stock conservative clock of 1400 mhz.

i know bios modding is out there, but i only have nvidia experience, and i wanted a helping hand with maybe a new bios for the card, with 1.1 ns timings, and hopefully a little more core voltage (1.3 is low!) 1.4 or 1.5 would be great, with the zalman on, the card hardly tops 50 degrees C with the cooler on medium, so i feel theres a fair amount of headroom, at least heat wise, and with the ram set 400mhz underclocked, hopefully some headroom there.

any help appreciated, thanx in advance.

P.s. the x1950pro was a huge upgrade from the old agp king the 6800U, id say double. that is the 6800 was the king till the x800/850

and if joining the clubhouse is necisary, i would be happy to post pics of my  system and update my profile.


----------



## Garb3 (May 7, 2007)

can i join the club heres my pics


----------



## DOM (May 7, 2007)

Garb3 said:


> can i join the club heres my pics



is that a XTX cooler ?


----------



## Garb3 (May 7, 2007)

nor its a msi decent but not great i'm just waitin for me accelero x2 to come should be here by thursday


----------



## erocker (May 7, 2007)

wolf said:


> hey all, im a new proud owner of a x1950, and i thought here would be a great place to get some advice, ive owned alot of gfx cards, mx440, ti4400, fx5600, 9200, 9600, 9800, 6600 and 6800 to name a few, and i was heavily into modding (bios, cooling, clocking) my 6800 ultra back in the day, but i lack ati modding exp, which is why im here.
> 
> i own a Sapphire radeon X1950PRO AGP 512 GDDR3
> 
> ...



Welcome Wolf!  What are you trying to OC with?  Catalyst is useless.  This is what I do:
I only install the drivers (newest 7.4's work for me), I use ATi Tool .27b.  be sure to tick "Use driver level overclocking" under the x1000 overclocking in settings.  Then you should be able to OC in 7mhz increments.  You should be able to get at least 620 out of the gpu and you memory just under 1500 mabye, im not too sure on the 512mb models.  Btw what are your temps?


----------



## Garb3 (May 7, 2007)

heres some better detailed pics from a review(camra is pants):shadedshu


----------



## erocker (May 7, 2007)

Garb3 said:


> can i join the club heres my pics



Dude that looks like a sweet cooler!?  Can you take a pick of the front and back of it?


----------



## Garb3 (May 7, 2007)

there just above but not in so much detail camara i got at me student digs is pants

edit: it only cools the core and not the ram thats why i ordered an accelero x2


----------



## erocker (May 7, 2007)

Lol spoke too soon!  It looks pretty good other than the fan.  If you could find a better replacement fan to put in that think + lap the heatsink I think it would work better than a zalman.  Especially if it cools the mem and vrm's as well.
*edit No it doesn't.


----------



## Garb3 (May 7, 2007)

u told wolf to use ati tool .27 beta, i was using that to overclock me card but couldnt break past 615/720 without it crashing . but now i'm using overdrive and i'm at 621/790  and i got a 3dmark06 score of 5134


----------



## Garb3 (May 7, 2007)

i did have a zalman cooler but i gave it to me mam  cause i was reading thu this thread and people were frowning on them  so i just stuck to the stock cooler that i got with it


----------



## wolf (May 8, 2007)

> "Welcome Wolf! What are you trying to OC with? Catalyst is useless. This is what I do:
> I only install the drivers (newest 7.4's work for me), I use ATi Tool .27b. be sure to tick "Use driver level overclocking" under the x1000 overclocking in settings. Then you should be able to OC in 7mhz increments. You should be able to get at least 620 out of the gpu and you memory just under 1500 mabye, im not too sure on the 512mb models. Btw what are your temps?"



ive tried catalyst 7.1 thru 7.4 and ati tool 0.26 upwards but not all combinations thereof i guess.

temps are 34-37 C idle and 48-50 load, i',m very happy with these temps as the stock cooler was crap( and its my third zalman, love their products! ), although to anyone with a stocker sapphire, just bump the fan up to 80-100% constant, i used 80, takes the edge off the noise, and kept about 10 degrees off the top of load temps (65-70, as oppose to 75-80), but i only ran it for 4 days before buying a cooler.

im also very glad i read the first page of this thread first too, cos those voltage chips, even with ramsinks on, still get warm.

ill try that ati tool with 7.4 drivers.

but mainly im hugely interested in this 1.1 ns ram they equipped my card with, from what i understand i should change the memory timings in a bios i dump, then flash the card, i just dont want to dive into the deep end without some guidance. cos if i can get the mem speeds from 1400 to 1800, hell thats about another 10 g/ps memory bandwith.

also, whats the little square chip on the reverse of the card? right down low near the agp port? my guess is RIALTO but it seems pci-e cards mite have it too, in any case, that gets quite warm, should i heatsink it too?

pics soon to follow, jsut gotta resize and upload them, but i have tafe now, so ill do it tonight.


----------



## wolf (May 8, 2007)

used ati tool 0.27b with driver level oc and have 600/1485 stable, but i know at least the memory has alot more in it, and ima want more VCORE to get higher core o/c

ooh and piccies.











so can i be in this most prestigious of clubs?


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## Garb3 (May 8, 2007)

i think yer need to clean the dust off yer cpu heatsink lol

edit: take some pics after yer have cleaned it and sorted the cables out


----------



## wolf (May 8, 2007)

yer tonite while i had nothing better to do i did a bit of cable management and dusting lol, i think i inhaled about 3 years worth of hardcore gaming  god bless compressed air in a can, oh and zipties too, iunno where i'd be without them today.


----------



## Garb3 (May 9, 2007)

would the sapphire 6.12 drivers work for my msi card or are they brand specific?? i only ask cause a couple of pages bk tk was sayin they are the best drivers to run a x1950 on??


----------



## tkpenalty (May 9, 2007)

They will work, they are the SAME thing. The CD drivers are just redistributeable drivers that AMD sends to AIBs to put into the CDs. 6.9 Drivers provide the best performance overall. NFS:C sees like almost doubling of framerate.


----------



## wolf (May 9, 2007)

alrite, heres some updated pics of my pc and card after the dusting and a bit more cable management, also got a snap of the card while it was outside the comp, still waiting on any advice about my 1.1 ns ram....and wether im in the club!

look at the pic and tell me if i have adequate VRM cooling too, aws.

cheers. wolf.


----------



## tkpenalty (May 9, 2007)

Yeah the heatsinks are doing their job ;D


----------



## new_rez (May 9, 2007)

Has anyone tried overclocking the HIS x1950 pro turbo edition?? I've tried but as soon as I do a 5mhz increase on either the memory or the core it artifacts.

Edit: I know it comes overclocked but i was wondering if there was anything more I could squeeze out of it.


----------



## Garb3 (May 9, 2007)

just got me accelero x2 and now my card idles at 34c  lol and it came with the vrm heat spreader

pic is when the heat spreader goes i was too eager to get it in to take pics lol


----------



## Garb3 (May 9, 2007)

tk is there anywhere were i can get those 6.9 drivers from  i have google for them but all i get is reviews lol:shadedshu


----------



## DOM (May 9, 2007)

Garb3 said:


> tk is there anywhere were i can get those 6.9 drivers from  i have google for them but all i get is reviews lol:shadedshu



Here you go 
http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/previous/radeon/radeonxip-cat69-xp.html


----------



## tkpenalty (May 9, 2007)

Garb3 said:


> just got me accelero x2 and now my card idles at 34c  lol and it came with the vrm heat spreader
> 
> pic is when the heat spreader goes i was too eager to get it in to take pics lol



34*C is pretty nice, well i cant get that because the stupid front bezel is so restrictive that the intake fan doesnt do its job.


----------



## Garb3 (May 9, 2007)

thanks for the link DOM 

i seen the heat spreader that you had a while ago the long strip thing and thats what i tought i was getting and i didnt have clue where i was goin to put thatlol  but this plate thing makes better sense for my card like. i was a bit suprised that there was one at the top aswell like( fan was obstructing view most times) but just glad its getting cooled now

TK can i join the club


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## wolf (May 10, 2007)

wow i'm really loving this card, started playing thru doom 3 again the other day on these settings

1440x900
Ultra quality
6xAA
16XAniso

you name it, i put it on.

never ever budges from 60fps flat, considering these cards arent supposed to have as good openGL support as nvidia cards its flawless.

also plays battlefield 2 every setting max with max AA and max Aniso never drops below 55fps, usually hovers around 70-90!

keep in mind the system is an '04 pentium 4, with agp, thats insane!

also games dont seem to stress the card as much as the hairy 3d cube in ati tool, when doom-ing of battlefield-ing, the card never tops 44 degrees.

totally awsome.

oh and sew stable o/c of     614/1485    without bios mods.


----------



## tkpenalty (May 10, 2007)

wolf said:


> wow i'm really loving this card, started playing thru doom 3 again the other day on these settings
> 
> 1440x900
> Ultra quality
> ...



Yeah, the cube is a wh0re, its pixel, vertex and polygon whores'r'us. Thats why it stresses the system so much.


----------



## wolf (May 11, 2007)

so do i need to heatsink RIALTO ? it gets quite warm and its already covered by something, like these pics i found.


----------



## erocker (May 11, 2007)

No heatsink needed, they do get warm.


----------



## Garb3 (May 11, 2007)

whats the pink pad thing round the gpu is that for watercooled systems???


----------



## tkpenalty (May 11, 2007)

Garb3 said:


> whats the pink pad thing round the gpu is that for watercooled systems???



WHHAAAAAT!?  

-_-... Its the rialto chipset roflmao


----------



## Garb3 (May 11, 2007)

sorry i dont know much about the card

edit: has anybody tried volt modding the card yet???? cause i can only get 621 out of my core and need a way to increase the vgpu memory is ok thats at 797


----------



## tkpenalty (May 14, 2007)

==========

UPDATE:

CLUB OPENED TO NEW HD SERIES USERS

==========

Mods, change the title a bit will ya?


----------



## binormalkilla (May 14, 2007)

new_rez said:


> Has anyone tried overclocking the HIS x1950 pro turbo edition?? I've tried but as soon as I do a 5mhz increase on either the memory or the core it artifacts.
> 
> Edit: I know it comes overclocked but i was wondering if there was anything more I could squeeze out of it.



Yea I have one older model (with the seperate PCI slot covers) and the newer model (with the double slot cover as one) and the newer one doesn't OC :\
I can OC the older revision to 661.5/823.5, but I kept it at 810 on the memory.  I think that they turned the VGPU down on the second revision because some people were complaining that it wasn't stable at default clocks.  
My advice:
don't worry about OCing it.  The real life effects are about 1-3 FPS in games.


----------



## tkpenalty (May 16, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> Yea I have one older model (with the seperate PCI slot covers) and the newer model (with the double slot cover as one) and the newer one doesn't OC :\
> I can OC the older revision to 661.5/823.5, but I kept it at 810 on the memory.  I think that they turned the VGPU down on the second revision because some people were complaining that it wasn't stable at default clocks.
> My advice:
> don't worry about OCing it.  The real life effects are about 1-3 FPS in games.



Actually a bit less. The X1950PRO Should be overclocked with the AMD Overclocking tool, as it actually works without killing the card. Nevertheless, AMD should include voltage control in the future as it will help, the X1950PRO is a Voltage hungry card, you have to remember.

Waiting for the first HD 2900XT User to join (might be me)


----------



## tkpenalty (May 16, 2007)

Hahah... I just cleaned out my GPU and discovered there was a significant amount of dust inside the cooler, I know why Arctic cooling used this design for the cooler, because it makes it easier and safer to clean. I blew into the fan side, and a blast of dust flew out, then i saw a huge amount of dust inside, and blew from the fin side (not recommended), like this huuuuge piece of dust flew out -_-....


----------



## Wile E (May 16, 2007)

Well TK, come Thursday, my brand new, shiny Powercolor HD2900XT should arrive at my doorstep. I'll joining and seeing everyone then.


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## tkpenalty (May 16, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Well TK, come Thursday, my brand new, shiny Powercolor HD2900XT should arrive at my doorstep. I'll joining and seeing everyone then.



 I want one too 

Oh well, better save up, and then ill use my old X1950PRO as a Physics card for Crysis


----------



## binormalkilla (May 18, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Actually a bit less. The X1950PRO Should be overclocked with the AMD Overclocking tool, as it actually works without killing the card. Nevertheless, AMD should include voltage control in the future as it will help, the X1950PRO is a Voltage hungry card, you have to remember.
> 
> Waiting for the first HD 2900XT User to join (might be me)


By the "AMD overclocking tool" do you mean Overdrive in the CCC?
Or this:
http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/536/AMD_GPU_Clock_Tool_v0.7.html


----------



## DOM (May 18, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> By the "AMD overclocking tool" do you mean Overdrive in the CCC?
> Or this:
> http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/536/AMD_GPU_Clock_Tool_v0.7.html



its this I think AMD GPU Clock Tool v0.7
http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/536/AMD_GPU_Clock_Tool_v0.7.html


----------



## NinkobEi (May 18, 2007)

Just ordered a Sapphire 1950GT 512meg version from newegg. Will have pics soon  
Does anyone have a link to the review for this card? I cant seem to find it AnYWHere! I cant even find the card on Sapphire's website.. The PCI-E version anyway. Trying to see how it compares to a 1950 pro


----------



## Wile E (May 18, 2007)

Well. got my Powercolor 2900XT up and running. Posted a quick 3DMark06 bench in Alcpone's thread. Got 9901 with my cpu set to 3GHz. Everything else in ORB that beat me was a Core2. I can also play STALKER maxed EVERYTHING, all shadows, full AA and AF @ 1440x900. I get 60fps avg indoors and 40fps avg outdoors.


----------



## tkpenalty (May 18, 2007)

, cool... My X1950PRO is already outdated -_-


----------



## technicks (May 18, 2007)

Does anybody has a idea how much i can ask for my Sapphire X1950XT with Original cooler +
Zalman VF900 led. Card is 2 months old.
Price in Euro's please.

Thanks.


----------



## tkpenalty (May 19, 2007)

technicks said:


> Does anybody has a idea how much i can ask for my Sapphire X1950XT with Original cooler +
> Zalman VF900 led. Card is 2 months old.
> Price in Euro's please.
> 
> Thanks.



150ish?


Going sorta off topic: 







K im making a sig for wile E, for the new HD2900XT users


----------



## Wile E (May 19, 2007)

So what info did you need for my profile on the front page, tk?


----------



## tkpenalty (May 19, 2007)

Wile E said:


> So what info did you need for my profile on the front page, tk?



One picture of the card in action, and anything else you think is necessary, apart from that, people should get some MX-1 and replace it ASAP.


----------



## zekrahminator (May 19, 2007)

Where are the wires .


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## Wile E (May 19, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> One picture of the card in action, and anything else you think is necessary, apart from that, people should get some MX-1 and replace it ASAP.


You mean I have to show you my cables? I'm too ashamed to do that. lol.


----------



## tkpenalty (May 19, 2007)

Wile E said:


> You mean I have to show you my cables? I'm too ashamed to do that. lol.



hahah cables, lol its like "I gotta flash my ballz?" Um nah, just a picture of the card in action, if there are leds and stuff lighting it up, make sure they are doing that. Yeah, I dont mind the bad cable management as long as we get the GPU in the picture (shudder)

(I can tell Wile E you are gonna use that text i typed for ur siggy) [/lies]


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (May 19, 2007)

hello all

just stumbled unto your forum and im interested in getting a x1950

i have a few options

1 this the 512 looks attractive and all
2 that take this and clock it and prolly get a cooler ... but teh color 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




i have a abit AB9Pro + E6400 + 2 * 1 GB PC 800 GEiL + 320 GB 7200.10 Barracuda Perp. Recording + 2 * 120 MM Fans @ 70 CFM + 3 * 80 MM Fans @ 45 CFM 

any advice and suggestions?


----------



## tkpenalty (May 19, 2007)

I would go for the MSI. Sapphire's cooler is not a good excuse so more the reason to. If possible add ramsinks on the ram modules.


----------



## erocker (May 20, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> 150ish?
> 
> 
> Going sorta off topic:
> ...



Have you tried using a 80mm fan in your open pci slots on the case to fee your card cool air?


----------



## NinkobEi (May 20, 2007)

does anyone know a website to find a benchmark of this product:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102094

surely it gives better performance than the 1950gt 256meg version.


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (May 20, 2007)

Ninkobwi said:


> does anyone know a website to find a benchmark of this product:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102094
> 
> surely it gives better performance than the 1950gt 256meg version.





was also eyeing that model ... i read somethign somewhere ill check my history


----------



## NinkobEi (May 20, 2007)

cool that would be nice IRA..btw how do you have 0 posts?


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (May 20, 2007)

thats a good observation .. i have no idea


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (May 20, 2007)

apparently i was viewing it from someone elses computer ... sorry not in history


----------



## ex_reven (May 20, 2007)

clubhouse posts dont count.
Only posts in general hardware/software count to postcount.


----------



## erocker (May 20, 2007)

That x1950gt is a waste of money if you use normal resolutions on your monitor.  You would be bay better off with a 256mb pro.


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (May 20, 2007)

why do u say that, they seem to be the same core, same memory, just a difference of clocks, unless im missing sumpn ...


----------



## NinkobEi (May 20, 2007)

erocker said:


> That x1950gt is a waste of money if you use normal resolutions on your monitor.  You would be bay better off with a 256mb pro.



please explain. they use the same core except the gt is slightly underclocked in comparison. so they should be capable of reaching the same performance when overclocked.


----------



## DaMulta (May 20, 2007)

Well I guess I should take apart my x1950xtx and put on some arctic silver 5 on the GPU.


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (May 20, 2007)

what model xtx are u running with which cooler and what clocks?


----------



## DOM (May 20, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> Well I guess I should take apart my x1950xtx and put on some arctic silver 5 on the GPU.



I put some MX-1 on mine see what kind of temps I get with on water

Im finishing up my leak test hope this is the last time cuz its been hell  

I'll post some pics later


----------



## DaMulta (May 20, 2007)

[I.R.A]_FBi said:


> what model xtx are u running with which cooler and what clocks?



 1950XTX C3D stock coolor havent OCed yet.... been busy:shadedshu .


----------



## erocker (May 20, 2007)

The GT uses 8 pixel pipelines and the PRO uses 12 while the XT and XTX use 16.  The only difference more video memory is going to be with very high resolutions.


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (May 20, 2007)

erocker said:


> The GT uses 8 pixel pipelines and the PRO uses 12 while the XT and XTX use 16.  The only difference more video memory is going to be with very high resolutions.




food for thought .. thank you kind sir


----------



## NinkobEi (May 20, 2007)

GT uses 12 pipelines. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102094
at least the 512 meg version does


----------



## erocker (May 20, 2007)

That is incorrect.  Newegg makes mistakes.  I'm sure there is a cheap PRO for around the price of the GT?


----------



## Wile E (May 20, 2007)

erocker said:


> That is incorrect.  Newegg makes mistakes.  I'm sure there is a cheap PRO for around the price of the GT?


No both the 1950GT and Pro have 12pipes and 36shaders. The GT is just an underclocked Pro.

Here's a link to the specs spreadsheet on Sapphire's site (you need Excel or OpenOffice to read it): http://www.sapphiretech.com/us/productfiles/matrix-vga-1.xls


----------



## erocker (May 20, 2007)

Oops!   I have read that there is a reason they are underclocked.  Mine is at 627.5 core/769.5 mem.


----------



## Wile E (May 20, 2007)

erocker said:


> Oops!   I have read that there is a reason they are underclocked.  Mine is at 627.5 core/769.5 mem.


Yeah, supposedly the GT uses cores that didn't bin as high as the Pros, or ran at a higher temps than they wanted, but I don't see how they could test them all, so I'm sure some top quality gpus got thru to the GTs.


----------



## erocker (May 20, 2007)

Now I just wish some GT's and Pro's could be unlockable...  My card is great, but I liked the steadieness of my unlocked x800.


----------



## tkpenalty (May 20, 2007)

erocker said:


> Now I just wish some GT's and Pro's could be unlockable...  My card is great, but I liked the steadieness of my unlocked x800.



No can do mate, the RV570 and RV560 is a die shrink of the R580+, therefore the other pipelines werent manufactured (Literally speaking a blank in the middle of the die). X1900GT had the R580, 90nm which pretty much died with heat. The latter X1900GTs (at the moment) used RV580s, however with the cores being laser cut, using the X1950PRO's PCB, without the crossfire headers, etc.

I find that all RV570s and RV560s can clock up to 621 mhz, then need overvolting to remain stable, the X1650XT and the X1950PRO/GT they all have the weirdest voltage control chips installed. So if you got an X1650XT, and you use something like a VF900CU on it, chances are you will get at the same clockspeeds, you will get similar temps produced, however the amount of heat energy will be less due to its lack of one of the quads. So to be accurate the RV570 is a FULL core, wheras the RV560 is a 2/3, having one quad less, the RV570 having three quads. You will find that the X1650XT is still a contender for shader intensive games, like need for speed carbon, which on max shader settings, it is equivalent to the 7900GT/GS.


----------



## Oliver (May 21, 2007)

*Late but done*

Sorry folks a bit late but interesting:

I've run a  cooling solution comparison: Sapphire x1950 xt stock w catalyst 7.3 and CCC overdrive:

VGA temps	in celsius		

VF900 cu led	(stock w/o fan mate running 12v)		
Idle 2d 500/594	3d06 621/900  3d06 655/945	3d06 668/945
          41°	         88°	   91° 94°

Stock cooler	(lapped and cleaned and reassembled)		
Idle 2d 500/594 3d06 621/900 3d06 655/945 3d06 668/945
  44°	  88°	    89°	  89°

Conclusions:

The Vf running at constant speed does cool better at lower loads, however it does not meet the cooling needs at higher loads (it has a constant air flow) and therefore lets the temps soar, the stock cooler does have  a lousier efficiency at low speed low loads but does cool better as soon as the load ramps up.........(with a penalty: noisy but ramps up at 88° c and keeps the temp there until a much heavier load sets in)

As 3dmark scores are concerned the difference is 12 points in 668/945 mode.

I'd say if you don't mind a little noise under load keep the original cooler and re lap and reassemble it cleaned of all the plastic and gunk on it. Other wise run a VF but you'll be hotter and possibly run into problems if heavily OCed

PS: I shaved 2 (two) degrees off the mobo thanks to the stock cooler that blows the hot air OUT of the case


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (May 22, 2007)

well mi salt .. them not going refund me my insurance money until the package is missing for 30 days ... might end up getting a hd2600xt .. i dunno ill see hwat happens when ig et teh money


----------



## DaMulta (May 22, 2007)

Hey what do you guys thing of this?"
ZEROtherm GX815 Gamer Edition 2 Ball VGA Cooler - Retail $38.99
($28.99 after $10.00 Mail-In Rebate)



> Pros: Installed this on ATI Radeon X1900XTX in under a half hour with nary a problem. Easy to install, card didn't bend at all like some reviews will tell you. Temps with stock cooling were 54 idle, 85 load. After installing the GX815, idle dropped to 40, and highest load I have seen is 59. The fan noise is near silent from 3 feet away upon startup, nowhere close to the dustbuster the stock cooler had. At load, the fan is audible, but is not enough to be distracting.



Review

I'm thinking about getting this for mu x1950XTX for now to kill the fan nosie.


----------



## tkpenalty (May 22, 2007)

Its quite a good cooler, ZEROtherm have been known for making great cooling solutions. Just buy it man. It would be good if you get some copper BGA heatsinks for your VRM units since there is no deliberate air blaster for them. The stock one is fine, but i would prefer to use copper.


----------



## erocker (May 22, 2007)

It certainly isn't as nice as a zalman.  The fan reminds me of a crappy ati fan.  I'm sure it works fine though.


----------



## tkpenalty (May 22, 2007)

erocker said:


> It certainly isn't as nice as a zalman.  The fan reminds me of a crappy ati fan.  I'm sure it works fine though.



Correction, its better than a zalman. Most Zalman products arent being made in korea anymore -_-...


----------



## Oliver (May 22, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Correction, its better than a zalman. Most Zalman products arent being made in korea anymore -_-...



..............which would explain poor results of mine facing my re-lapped stock cooler


----------



## erocker (May 23, 2007)

Korea?  Who cares!  Just put both of them side by side.  Nothing in the Zalman design has changed, the same parts and materials are being used, and the Zerotherm cooler uses half of the materials (at least) than the Zalman.  Either way I prefer Arcitc Cooling's solutions.


----------



## tkpenalty (May 23, 2007)

erocker said:


> Korea?  Who cares!  Just put both of them side by side.  Nothing in the Zalman design has changed, the same parts and materials are being used, and the Zerotherm cooler uses half of the materials (at least) than the Zalman.  Either way I prefer Arcitc Cooling's solutions.



AcceleroX2 is not a performance powerhouse, its a silent house (wtf).


----------



## Wayward (May 23, 2007)

Hi, I have a question that I hope is not too noobish.  

I just got a Sapphire x1950pro 512, and of course changed the cooler.  I replaced the stock with a Zalman vf-900.  I am wondering if there are other heatsinks I should attach.  

Here is the model I have:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102075

In the first post I read that some models of x1950pro have VRM issues due to overheating when the stock cooler is replaced.  The article goes on to say some manufacturers saw the VRM issue and started using a capacitor barrage.  I see a capacitor barrage on my PCB, so does that mean I'm safe?

Should I consider bonding heatsinks to the voltage regulators by the 6pin power plug anyway?

Thank you for any advice you can give, I appreciate it.


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## tkpenalty (May 23, 2007)

You do not need them since you have the newer revision which has a crapper cooler, but no VRMs, instead using the normal capacitors for voltage filtering; which I think is much better. Sapphire are slowly having less VRM X1950PROs.


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## Wayward (May 23, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> You do not need them since you have the newer revision which has a crapper cooler, but no VRMs, instead using the normal capacitors for voltage filtering; which I think is much better. Sapphire are slowly having less VRM X1950PROs.


Thanks for the clarification, tkpenalty.  I'm glad I don't need to take out my new card again.  Cheers!


PS, when I get 50 posts, I'll be back to join your club.


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## tkpenalty (May 24, 2007)

Wayward said:


> Thanks for the clarification, tkpenalty.  I'm glad I don't need to take out my new card again.  Cheers!
> 
> 
> PS, when I get 50 posts, I'll be back to join your club.



dont have to ill make it 15 posts.


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## tkpenalty (May 26, 2007)

aah crap now I can hear my acceleroX2


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (May 26, 2007)

they found my package back so now im teh owner of a 7900 GS .. trying to get it sold though ...


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (May 26, 2007)

sad


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## Wile E (May 26, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> aah crap now I can hear my acceleroX2


That sucks. Is the fan starting to whine or something?


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## tkpenalty (May 26, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> AcceleroX2 is not a performance powerhouse, its a silent house (wtf).



*Corrects himself* the AcceleroX2 can take higher heat loads better than the VF900CU. The AcceleroX2 does not go past 80*C At full load for the X1950XT. In fact the VF900CU performs badly due to the fact that the heatpipes are not in contact with the base of the cooler itself; if they were there would be much more heat transfer involved. Last debate that occured noone pointed this out.



Wile E said:


> That sucks. Is the fan starting to whine or something?



Actually wasnt my fan. Yes the AcceleroX2 makes a noise but its a low noise "ddahddah" but at 1m its inaudible. No way that the AcceleroX2 will make a whine, the fan's bearing makes it virtually impossible for that to even occur; compare that to the VF900CU.

I better correct what I wrote on the first page though.

AcceleroX2 performs the best when there is a intake sorce blowing on the cooler - 35*C Idle FTW!!!! (Thats with my case's front bezel removed). If you do not have a case with a substantial intake source, the cooling power is somewhat hampered. In something like a coolermaster Stacker; with the mobo in the flipped over inverted ATX setup, the AcceleroX2 is teh_pwnage; just remember to leave the plate covers open. 

Remember that debate about the Accelero VS VF900CU? The VF900CU is one of the most expensive coolers and I've seen a trend in its performance; performing good for mid range products and not so good for high end products from ATI. Now reviving that debate, people dont know the difference between the speed of the removal of heat and the amount of heat an object can store. The VF900 CU has the heatpipes + copper, not in touch with the base. The speed of the transfer of heat is fast until the fins where it bottlenecks. The Heatpipes have cycles and in between each cycle the performance sort of worsens, and then goes back to normal.

AcceleroX2 on the other hand uses aluminium, and heatpipes! Aluminium transfers heat much faster and there is a proportionate amount of aluminium to the VF900CU. Moreover there is a larger surface area. Now guys with X1950PROs, AcceleroX2 and VF900CU performs the SAME. X1950XT? Similarly. But that just prompts me; why on earth would someone pay almost $20 more for a cooler that performs somewhat the same and worse?! VF900CU has less surface area and less heatpipes, the AcceleroX2 would outperform the VF900CU; it has been shown by benchmarks.

Stock cooler of the X1950XT is excellent as oliver showed us, but the problem lies in the utilisation of the cooler. If only the fan was larger and used a better bearing, if only the copper base was thinner; reducing thermal resistance

Now to make it clear, reason why I said not made in Korea was because of the quality control. I'm a chinese guy and I don't care about my "own country" (even though I have never been there ROFL), the Chinese workforce are bent on making money and doing things at a speedy pace. However in Korea the workers have a perfectionist mentality; therefore products manufactured there are of an excellent quality-example, in the US u get some lunchboxes and they'll break if u step on them. In korea, the plastics are so solid that you could stand on them without the plastics showing any signs of damage. I'm talking about quality of the products; may not really affect performance but yeah.

So yeah oliver; why not try changing the fan on the stock cooler and seeing how it would perform?


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## tkpenalty (May 26, 2007)

[I.R.A]_FBi said:


> sad



Just get a new cooler and overclock the S$^%#^@ out of it.


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## Wile E (May 26, 2007)

Yeah TK, I had an X2 on my X1800XT. In my case it was perfectly silent, with my card bios modded to 100% fan. I remember the first time I booted with it installed, I had to go into my machine and check to see if it was actually spinning. lol That's what made me think maybe yours developed a whine. I never heard mine once.

And, not to start an argument or anything, but anything that contains a bearing can develop a whine. It's nowhere near impossible, even for an X2. That's another thing that led me to believe that maybe yours did develop a whine, when you mentioned being able to hear it.

Off Topic: Is that your FD3S?


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## DaMulta (May 26, 2007)

oblivion is screaming on this card. I also have texture packs installed with HDR/AA by having all CCC options to max. I did'nt take a look at FPS but I think it's 40-60 from the way thaty it's running. WOW last time I played this game maxed was on a OCed 1800xt and this x1950xtx stomps it and it's not even oced.


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## tkpenalty (May 26, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Yeah TK, I had an X2 on my X1800XT. In my case it was perfectly silent, with my card bios modded to 100% fan. I remember the first time I booted with it installed, I had to go into my machine and check to see if it was actually spinning. lol That's what made me think maybe yours developed a whine. I never heard mine once.
> 
> And, not to start an argument or anything, but anything that contains a bearing can develop a whine. It's nowhere near impossible, even for an X2. That's another thing that led me to believe that maybe yours did develop a whine, when you mentioned being able to hear it.
> 
> Off Topic: Is that your FD3S?



I wish it was my FD3S  The AcceleroX2 isnt silent-but its only audible at 10cm. Do u have a pic of ur HD2900XT?!



DaMulta said:


> oblivion is screaming on this card. I also have texture packs installed with HDR/AA by having all CCC options to max. I did'nt take a look at FPS but I think it's 40-60 from the way thaty it's running. WOW last time I played this game maxed was on a OCed 1800xt and this x1950xtx stomps it and it's not even oced.



I wish i could say that lol...


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## Wayward (May 26, 2007)

I'd have to say I'd go with the vf-900 though.  I've had both Accelro X-2's and Zalman vf-900's pass through my workshop, and my experience has been more favorable to Zalman.  

The performance and noise differences are negligible.  In some cases one performs better than the other, and vice versa.  They are both quiet, really really quiet.

However the vf-900 has much better compatibility, and is lighter than the Accelro x-2.  The vf-900 is also smaller, allowing the installation of large northbridge heatsinks, which in some cases would be impossible with the Accelro X-2.

In fact on my own board, the Biostar TForce 550, I installed a Thermaltake Extreme Spirit II northbridge cooler.  While the vf-900 has room to spare, the Accelro X-2 won't even fit.

I grant you of course, that price is definitely not in Zalman's favor...


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## tkpenalty (May 26, 2007)

Yeah but u have the X1950PRO... the X1950PRO has that amount of heat that it wont kill the heatpipes temporarily like the X1950XT does.


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## Wayward (May 26, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Yeah but u have the X1950PRO... the X1950PRO has that amount of heat that it wont kill the heatpipes temporarily like the X1950XT does.



True.  That's why in some cases it performs better, other times not.  High TDP chips will most likely take the Accelro X-2 better due to the heatpipe issue.  

On that note, I've noticed something about it that intrigues me actually.  My new GPU runs cooler with the vf-900 than my old GPU did, the x1900gt, which had the ICEQ3 cooler.  I figured that the ICEQ3 was better, as it exausts the heat out the back, and my old GPU ran at the same clock rate.  Would the reason the new one runs cooler be due to the manufacturing process?  

The x1900gt was 90nm, while the x1950pro is 80nm.  Does 10nm make that much of a difference?


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## tkpenalty (May 26, 2007)

The ICEQ is not as effective as the VF900CU, just to let you know, unless you are talking about low ventilation situations. 

90nm produces *way* more heat than 80nm. 

Oh yeah whoever goes the RV570 (X1950PRO) is just AMD trying to get rid of previous gen products, you are WRONG. The X1900GT has a different core to the X1950PRO.


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## tkpenalty (May 26, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> Hey what do you guys thing of this?"
> ZEROtherm GX815 Gamer Edition 2 Ball VGA Cooler - Retail $38.99
> ($28.99 after $10.00 Mail-In Rebate)
> 
> ...



Actually now thinking a bit more, get the AcceleroX2.


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## Wayward (May 26, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> The ICEQ is not as effective as the VF900CU, just to let you know, unless you are talking about low ventilation situations.
> 
> 90nm produces *way* more heat than 80nm.
> 
> Oh yeah whoever goes the RV570 (X1950PRO) is just AMD trying to get rid of previous gen products, you are WRONG. The X1900GT has a different core to the X1950PRO.



Cool.  Well, I'm glad I traded up for a more effective solution.  I liked the ICEQ3, but the vf-900 does seem to be quieter while preforming better.  In any case I think the real difference in heat is due to the process type as you have said.  80nm really is much cooler.

Which brings up an interesting question.  WHY?  In the world of CPUs, much larger die shrinks take place, and the heat differences seem to be similar or less.  For instance the recent AMD die shrinks are from 90nm to 65nm, while the ATI die shrinks are only from 90nm to 80nm.  Is there a reason behind why the GPUs are only shrinking 10nm, as opposed to CPUs shrinking 25nm?  Is there a reason behind why the lesser shrink of the GPUs has such an impact on heat dissipation?

Just curious.   

Oh, and I don't know why anyone would think the r570 is older than the r580, besides the designation.  A little research quickly proves it's superiority in process type, as well as reveal it's more recent debut.  The x1950pro is most certainly not the x1900gt.   

I love these charts:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_ATI_Graphics_Processing_Units


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## tkpenalty (May 26, 2007)

Okay its due to the fact that before ATI did not have such a large budget to do such a thing, moreover shrinking 25nm is not an easy task as you will have to use different transistors and layout for the design. Mainly it was due to the price however... Shrinking 10nm is an easy task compared to 25nm.

Just realise that the RV570 runs cooler not only because of its process but because it has one less quad which has not been manufactured rendering unlocking it impossible.


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## binormalkilla (May 27, 2007)

LOL I just realized that I've never posted a 3dmark score of my Crossfire setup!  Here it is, standard 7.4 Catalyst, PCIE1 OCed to 661.5/810 (not that it matters much, only one core)
Also default 3dmark settings.


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## tkpenalty (May 27, 2007)

lol! Anyways, I flipped the case over, removed front bezel and guess what, 33*C Idle, that proves that the AcceleroX2 is the king in a BTX setup.


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## erocker (May 27, 2007)

Well, I get those temps., and when it's cold in here 1-2c lower.  I am the KING!!! 










ok j/k.    ...not about the temps...


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## erocker (May 27, 2007)

Hey Binormalkilla!  I'm just wondering what your settings are to keep your processor stable at 2.7ghz?  I've been trying and trying with a similar setup. (no cf though  )


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## Wile E (May 27, 2007)

Sorry TK. Pics soon. I lent my cam to my sister. Should have it back by tomorrow or the day after.


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## Wayward (May 27, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Okay its due to the fact that before ATI did not have such a large budget to do such a thing, moreover shrinking 25nm is not an easy task as you will have to use different transistors and layout for the design. Mainly it was due to the price however... Shrinking 10nm is an easy task compared to 25nm.
> 
> Just realise that the RV570 runs cooler not only because of its process but because it has one less quad which has not been manufactured rendering unlocking it impossible.



Sweet, well that all makes sense.  Thanks for enlightening me.   

Why is it though that the locked quad produces heat?  Isn't it "off"?  Or does it produce the heat indirectly, by crowding the other three?


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## tkpenalty (May 27, 2007)

Nah it doesnt produce heat... its dead. 

Btw Rate this : http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/810


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## Wayward (May 27, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Btw Rate this : http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/810



I'll give that a 10 for the excellent cable job.  I won't criticize for the lack of lights, as that is a personal preference issue.  Some like em', some don't.  I like a well lighted case, but that's not important here.  Anyway, lights mean more cables, making organization more difficult.

Despite the lack of lights, why not get a window case to show off your sweet cables?  

P.S. Someone else just rated it a 1...

EDIT: ...Two someones...


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## binormalkilla (May 27, 2007)

erocker said:


> Hey Binormalkilla!  I'm just wondering what your settings are to keep your processor stable at 2.7ghz?  I've been trying and trying with a similar setup. (no cf though  )



Here they are:
HT freq:  302
HTV: 1.40
VCore:  1.500
LDT frequency (or HT multiplier): 600 MHz (essentially 3x)
CPU multi:9x
DDRV:  2.9
Memclock: DDR333=CPU/11
I can actually run it at 305 MHz--2748 MHz but I'm still trying to stabilize my RAM.


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## DaMulta (May 27, 2007)

Hey TK run Oblivion with everything to max in CCC but leave Adaptive AA off. Tell me how it runs for you.


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## tkpenalty (May 28, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> Hey TK run Oblivion with everything to max in CCC but leave Adaptive AA off. Tell me how it runs for you.



lol cbf getting it... or even torrenting it.


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## DaMulta (May 28, 2007)

what


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## tkpenalty (May 29, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> what



fine fine...


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## Frick (May 29, 2007)

Just to make things clear (to me): Do I want heatsinks on my VRM's?


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## tkpenalty (May 29, 2007)

U dont need them... u got them already


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## Frick (May 29, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> U dont need them... u got them already



Thanks. I've been thinking about that for a while now, but I haven't found straight answers. Merci.


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## Garb3 (Jun 1, 2007)

tk any chance i can join the club yet i keep ask but never had a reply


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## tkpenalty (Jun 1, 2007)

Didnt I already add you :S


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## Garb3 (Jun 2, 2007)

dont think so. but should i just take it that i'm in now then
is there a list of members in the club??


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## DOM (Jun 2, 2007)

Garb3 said:


> dont think so. but should i just take it that i'm in now then
> is there a list of members in the club??



there you are just kind of hard to see lol


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## tkpenalty (Jun 2, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> there you are just kind of hard to see lol



Sorry accidentally screwed up the quotes... eehehehe...


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## Oliver (Jun 2, 2007)

*been thinking about it*



tkpenalty said:


> So yeah oliver; why not try changing the fan on the stock cooler and seeing how it would perform?



You've got a point there, funny I'd been thinking about it..........but for now my pro workload is heavy, i'm teaching myself flash, and i might order a hd2900 sooooooooo my energy is not devoted to cooling issues on my 1950.

I wonder whay type of fan i could stick in there though; any ideas????and should the wiring be the same and respect ATI's load factor for fan speeds or should it run 30/60/90/100 or 100% all around........many questions, many answers: i'm open to suggestions and might work on it when things "cool down" here


Take care

Oliver


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## tkpenalty (Jun 2, 2007)

Oliver said:


> You've got a point there, funny I'd been thinking about it..........but for now my pro workload is heavy, i'm teaching myself flash, and i might order a hd2900 sooooooooo my energy is not devoted to cooling issues on my 1950.
> 
> I wonder whay type of fan i could stick in there though; any ideas????and should the wiring be the same and respect ATI's load factor for fan speeds or should it run 30/60/90/100 or 100% all around........many questions, many answers: i'm open to suggestions and might work on it when things "cool down" here
> 
> ...



lol yeh... the stock cooler isnt bad, its just that ATI stuffed up on the quality part of it, if it used a better fan, you wouldnt get this problem (well the VF900CU is worse... so WTF)


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## Garb3 (Jun 2, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Sorry accidentally screwed up the quotes... eehehehe...



probs why i never thought i was in lol i was only looking at the pic lol


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## Oliver (Jun 2, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> lol yeh... the stock cooler isnt bad, its just that ATI stuffed up on the quality part of it, if it used a better fan, you wouldnt get this problem (well the VF900CU is worse... so WTF)



VF900cu (modded cable) for sale


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## tkpenalty (Jun 2, 2007)

Oliver said:


> VF900cu (modded cable) for sale



lol! AcceleroX2 > VF900CU, I just realised that AcceleroX2 doesnt go past 80*C for the X1950XT/XTX...


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## Waldoinsc (Jun 3, 2007)

Hello all, very informative clubhouse, though I couldn't make it through the 50+ pages of posts.  

I built a single GPU system using a X1950XT CF (basically the X1950XTX with the CF output) last week. With stock settings and cooling, it scored 11800 in 3DMark05 (OC'd to 695 core, 1080 memory and scored 12200) and 4303 in PCMark05 yesterday.   Are these fairly nominal for a stock setup?


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## tkpenalty (Jun 3, 2007)

Waldoinsc said:


> Hello all, very informative clubhouse, though I couldn't make it through the 50+ pages of posts.
> 
> I built a single GPU system using a X1950XT CF (basically the X1950XTX with the CF output) last week. With stock settings and cooling, it scored 11800 in 3DMark05 (OC'd to 695 core, 1080 memory and scored 12200) and 4303 in PCMark05 yesterday.   Are these fairly nominal for a stock setup?



I would say yes... Try runing 3DMarks06.


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## binormalkilla (Jun 3, 2007)

Anyone using the 7.5 Catalysts?  They have great image quality and benchmark performance, but in BF2142 I'm getting some major stuttering and frame rate loss.  I'm afraid that I'm not being able to use alternate frame rendering mode, even though I'm selecting advanced Catatlyst AI...
Oh yea LOL I'm running a Crossfire setup now, 2 of my card


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## tkpenalty (Jun 3, 2007)

binormalkilla said:


> Anyone using the 7.5 Catalysts?  They have great image quality and benchmark performance, but in BF2142 I'm getting some major stuttering and frame rate loss.  I'm afraid that I'm not being able to use alternate frame rendering mode, even though I'm selecting advanced Catatlyst AI...
> Oh yea LOL I'm running a Crossfire setup now, 2 of my card



Yeah 7.5s are good... great performance and great image quality.


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## Waldoinsc (Jun 3, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> I would say yes... Try runing 3DMarks06.



5854 3DMark06


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## erocker (Jun 3, 2007)

Tk, what should I get to replace my HIS turbo ed. cooler?  I'ts performance has degraded more and more.  (cracked heatsink)  I'm still getting 39c idle, but with my setup it should be 34c or less.  You still like the Accelero's?  I'm trying to break 5000 in 06.


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## tkpenalty (Jun 3, 2007)

erocker said:


> Tk, what should I get to replace my HIS turbo ed. cooler?  I'ts performance has degraded more and more.  (cracked heatsink)  I'm still getting 39c idle, but with my setup it should be 34c or less.  You still like the Accelero's?  I'm trying to break 5000 in 06.



Yeah go for the AcceleroX2, you dont have to buy the VRM heatsinks since you got a huge copper one. VF900CU is just CRAP. People go its so good when the actual performance of it is appauling on the X1950 series.


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## Kursah (Jun 3, 2007)

I like my X2 cooler, it does a good job. If ya don't mind me asking Erocker, how did the heatsink crack on your  HIS cooler? I like the HIS design that AC did, cause it's an exhuast out of the case style, but I have the two slots below the card open to allow proper venting. And at 100 % it's pretty damn quiet, just don't stuff the wire between the board and the fan, because the rubber boot that attaches the fan will allow the fan to be pushed down and make a buzzing noise as I just recently learned.


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## tkpenalty (Jun 3, 2007)

Kursah said:


> I like my X2 cooler, it does a good job. If ya don't mind me asking Erocker, how did the heatsink crack on your  HIS cooler? I like the HIS design that AC did, cause it's an exhuast out of the case style, but I have the two slots below the card open to allow proper venting. And at 100 % it's pretty damn quiet, just don't stuff the wire between the board and the fan, because the rubber boot that attaches the fan will allow the fan to be pushed down and make a buzzing noise as I just recently learned.



I see... thats why it was making some "THUUDUDUDUDUDUD" noise (hard to hear)


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## tkpenalty (Jun 3, 2007)

AMD said:


> IATI Radeon™ HD 2600 Feature Summary
> 
> * 390 million transistors on 65nm fabrication process
> * 128-bit DDR2/GDDR3/GDDR4 memory interface
> ...



Wow... 120 Stream proccessors... 24 Unified shaders.... 8600GTS is fked for sure.\






Kudos to AMD for designing such a good cooler too, the flanges ensure that the stagnant air does not stay but, it is propelled towards the outside then over the card and sucked out. Would work great in a lian li case for sure.... HD2600XT FTW... except for the fact that it uses VRMs (and the PCB is bare... which means its got VRMS... well lets hope my accelero will fit).





This passive heatsink is a ingeneous design... as much dissipating area as possible. HD2400PRO...






 HD2600PRO, similar cooler, notice that plate covering the RAM.


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## erocker (Jun 3, 2007)

Kursah said:


> I like my X2 cooler, it does a good job. If ya don't mind me asking Erocker, how did the heatsink crack on your  HIS cooler? I like the HIS design that AC did, cause it's an exhuast out of the case style, but I have the two slots below the card open to allow proper venting. And at 100 % it's pretty damn quiet, just don't stuff the wire between the board and the fan, because the rubber boot that attaches the fan will allow the fan to be pushed down and make a buzzing noise as I just recently learned.



I was taking it apart a couple months ago and noticed that the hs was lapped horribly and there seemed to be a small very rough gouged area just to the left of where the gpu sits.  After lapping it myself it seems as if there is a defect in the h.s. itself most likely caused by an air bubble in the aluminum.(yes they are only anodized to look copper!)  Anyways there is a very tiny hairline crack on either side of the air pocket.  All of it has been smoothed out now.  I wouldn't mind seeing a cooler like this with real copper parts.


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## tkpenalty (Jun 3, 2007)

erocker said:


> I was taking it apart a couple months ago and noticed that the hs was lapped horribly and there seemed to be a small very rough gouged area just to the left of where the gpu sits.  After lapping it myself it seems as if there is a defect in the h.s. itself most likely caused by an air bubble in the aluminum.(yes they are only anodized to look copper!)  Anyways there is a very tiny hairline crack on either side of the air pocket.  All of it has been smoothed out now.  I wouldn't mind seeing a cooler like this with real copper parts.



:S... my friend lapped it and it was copper... well so what?! At least it does better than the VF900CU for the R580s....


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## technicks (Jun 3, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Yeah go for the AcceleroX2, you dont have to buy the VRM heatsinks since you got a huge copper one. VF900CU is just CRAP. People go its so good when the actual performance of it is appauling on the X1950 series.



You don't know what you are talking about. I have both coolers and the VF900 is better then the Arctic X2. You just like Arctic more then Zalman because you have the cooler.
Don't say it's crap. Have you used the Zalman yourself?
The Arctic cooler revs up my motherboard temp by 5 degrees because of the idiotic hot air exhaust. Ok maybe they have the same cooling capacity but i would rather not have the hot air blown into my mobo.
The Zalman is a great cooler and maybe better then the X2.

Btw. This looks a lot more offensive then it was meant.


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## binormalkilla (Jun 3, 2007)

Yea I'd have to agree, the VF900Cu is a great cooler.  I bought one for my Sapphire (before RMA) and it lowered the temps drastically.  However, I didn't have heatsinks for the VRMs so I just RMAd them both for my card.  HIS


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## DOM (Jun 3, 2007)

@technicks  cant wait for his reply 

But what kind of load temps do you get with yours and @ what speeds


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## tkpenalty (Jun 3, 2007)

technicks said:


> You don't know what you are talking about. I have both coolers and the VF900 is better then the Arctic X2. You just like Arctic more then Zalman because you have the cooler.
> Don't say it's crap. Have you used the Zalman yourself?
> The Arctic cooler revs up my motherboard temp by 5 degrees because of the idiotic hot air exhaust. Ok maybe they have the same cooling capacity but i would rather not have the hot air blown into my mobo.
> The Zalman is a great cooler and maybe better then the X2.
> ...



*Looks at what dom posted*

OMFG VF900CU SUCKS BALLZ ACCELEROX2 RULES TEH WALRD

They perform similar but you gotta realise that the AcceleroX2 is two times more expensive...

With a proper intake (without bezel; normal case situation since this bezel barely lets any air in) and a "low ambient temps like how it is over there", i get 33*C Idle, and around 45*C load... normally? 36*C Idle, 48*C load.

Frankly technicks, the VF900CU is great okay? Except its not that great when you consider it performs badly on load on the X1950XT, there isnt a DEFINITE COOLING POWER, like most of you think...VF900 wasnt really designed for such heat loads anyway, it does great but I wouldnt be putting my money on it. If you have proper ventilation i would wonder why you would complain about the acceleroX2, moreover you have the antec 900 and grilled slot covers... the antec 900's intakes are beasty and therefore you would get much lower temps.

I was sorta overemphasizing *that the VF900CU is not designed to perform well on the X1950XT, but to run quietly instead*


----------



## DOM (Jun 3, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Geez calm down man... you shouldnt be on the forum if ur that worked up...
> 
> I mean for the R580....



look at his specs.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 3, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> look at his specs.



He hasnt owned an acceleroX2, he doesnt know the awesomeness of it


----------



## DOM (Jun 3, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> He hasnt owned an acceleroX2, he doesnt know the awesomeness of it





technicks said:


> You don't know what you are talking about. I have both coolers and the VF900 is better then the Arctic X2. You just like Arctic more then Zalman because you have the cooler.
> Don't say it's crap. Have you used the Zalman yourself?
> The Arctic cooler revs up my motherboard temp by 5 degrees because of the idiotic hot air exhaust. Ok maybe they have the same cooling capacity but i would rather not have the hot air blown into my mobo.
> The Zalman is a great cooler and maybe better then the X2.
> ...



But I think that intake is helping out alot which alot of ppl dont get just cuz you put an aftermarket cooler it needs good airflow, goes for all aircooling


----------



## Wile E (Jun 3, 2007)

technicks said:


> You don't know what you are talking about. I have both coolers and the VF900 is better then the Arctic X2. You just like Arctic more then Zalman because you have the cooler.
> Don't say it's crap. Have you used the Zalman yourself?
> The Arctic cooler revs up my motherboard temp by 5 degrees because of the idiotic hot air exhaust. Ok maybe they have the same cooling capacity but i would rather not have the hot air blown into my mobo.
> The Zalman is a great cooler and maybe better then the X2.
> ...


The X2 on my former X1800XT only raised my mobo temps by 2c. If 2c is gonna cause problems, then you need better chipset cooling to begin with.

Can't speak for the Zalman, I never owned one, but it doesn't exhaust the hot air out of the case either, so how is it any better?


----------



## Kursah (Jun 3, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> But I think that intake is helping out alot which alot of ppl dont get just cuz you put an aftermarket cooler it needs good airflow, goes for all aircooling



Couldn't have said it better myself, people often forget that fact. Airflow is vital, induction of cool air is just as important as removal of heat and exhuasting of hot air, proper venting can make a huge difference.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 3, 2007)

Kursah said:


> Couldn't have said it better myself, people often forget that fact. Airflow is vital, induction of cool air is just as important as removal of heat and exhuasting of hot air, proper venting can make a huge difference.



AcceleroX2 performs poorly with low airflow... (well not poorly... like 39*C idle). Its drops like 5*C with normal airflow and even more with something like the antec 900.


----------



## Grings (Jun 3, 2007)

i fitted an x2 to my x1800 and the mobo temp dropped, however there is a vent in my side panel right where the x2's fan sits


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 3, 2007)

Grings said:


> i fitted an x2 to my x1800 and the mobo temp dropped, however there is a vent in my side panel right where the x2's fan sits



rofl!

Oh yeah how much can the X1950PRO overclock on stock voltages?


----------



## technicks (Jun 3, 2007)

Wile E said:


> The X2 on my former X1800XT only raised my mobo temps by 2c. If 2c is gonna cause problems, then you need better chipset cooling to begin with.
> 
> Can't speak for the Zalman, I never owned one, but it doesn't exhaust the hot air out of the case either, so how is it any better?



I did not say it was better. I said that i was not a crappy cooler.


----------



## technicks (Jun 3, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> He hasnt owned an acceleroX2, he doesnt know the awesomeness of it



LOL. I do. It's on my X1900GT that is my friends rig.

You are right about the temps. I get 36 idle and 45 load with my VF900.
Good enough for me.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 3, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> lol! AcceleroX2 > VF900CU, I just realised that AcceleroX2 doesnt go past 80*C for the X1950XT/XTX...



Even under heavy load.......(3d06 max aa and af run several times???)

The accelero must be good but i'd run a fan on the front or side of the case sucking in (often cooling the disks too) and a extra low fan on the back of the case to suck the hot air out (if any space from lack of cards)

I'd even call it dust buster


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 3, 2007)

Holy shit thats good, considering the fact that the X1900GT is 90nm... 

Looks pretty sweet . Nah a fan wouldnt do any good to it if its applying negative pressure. Rule of the thumb for the acceleroX2 is the better the intake, the better the performance, it gets even better if you remove the covers.  If you have a stacker... and u use the inverted ATX setup, the AcceleroX2's temps drop even further as the PSU sucks the heat up like a blow hole, no heat actually acclumulates...

Now you look at the DHES system of the 8800GTS, and you get the "GPU destroying motherboard" problem... well does it happen with the acceleroX2? NO. 

W00t... 621/770 @ stock clocks... actually gives a noticeable improvement! Now I just need to "overvolt" it a bit more (heh... the X1950XT runs at higher clocks and higher voltages anyway).

I got 32*C in an inverted setup with low intake fans.


----------



## zekrahminator (Jun 3, 2007)

My VF-900 keeps my X850XT chilled in a case with a 120mm case intake fan and 120mm case exhaust. 

Temps on "silent mode": 
Idle: 30*C
Load: never higher than 60*C, generally around 55*C. 

And Technicks, I know why you get such good temps....you live in the Netherlands .


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 3, 2007)

pfft X850 is easy to keep cool


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 4, 2007)

I just realized, whoever claims that a stock 120mm fan > my 92mm fan... is wrong. My friend's system has barely any air coming through it... I might get the CNPS9700; its not that big and it looks hawt. 

Man I want an 8800GTS


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 5, 2007)

Did I just kill the thread?


----------



## almighty (Jun 5, 2007)

No you did'nt kill the thread  Theres alot of info for me to read though so i better get started


----------



## Grings (Jun 5, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> rofl!
> 
> Oh yeah how much can the X1950PRO overclock on stock voltages?



rofl what?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 5, 2007)

I went up to 621/770.... figures it runs 100% stable


----------



## Kursah (Jun 6, 2007)

That's where mine is for 100% stability, I have been able to go a little higher, but not for too long, and if I use ATI Tools 3d fuzzy cube/artifact scanner anything over 614/750 will cause it to crash and reset, but anything else I do w/3d is fine at the higher speeds. I think the best OC I had was 628/783 in XP I can't quite remember ATM, but for some reason on Vista I can't get over 621 for long. I wish my x1950 would OC further, but ahh well it's a good card.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 6, 2007)

621/770 is max... then you will need voltages.


----------



## almighty (Jun 6, 2007)

Whats the temps for a stock 1950 PRO AGP?

Idle and Load?

And what roughly should they be when there OC'd? whats the max load temp before i start to get worried about it burning out?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 6, 2007)

Um... what model do you have anyway :S....

70*C for me is MAX... anything higher and I'll scream. Seriously, aftermarket solutions, even the VF700ALCU will do a good job in cooling it down. Grab yourself an acceleroX2 and take pictures of ur GPU if possible.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 6, 2007)

*Max?*



tkpenalty said:


> 621/770 is max... then you will need voltages.



Not all the cards are equal......my x1950xt fails at 675/945.........i've tried a bit higher but to no avail!!!


----------



## DOM (Jun 6, 2007)

Oliver said:


> Not all the cards are equal......my x1950xt fails at 675/945.........i've tried a bit higher but to no avail!!!



Have you tryed upping the volts in ATITool ? My max on stock volts are 675/972


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 6, 2007)

Oliver said:


> Not all the cards are equal......my x1950xt fails at 675/945.........i've tried a bit higher but to no avail!!!



Well considering that the memory ns is a big factor you can say that... but 621 for the RV570/RV560 on stock volts and 675 for the R580+. for the core...


----------



## Oliver (Jun 6, 2007)

*Ati tool grrrrrr!!!!!!!*



DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> Have you tryed upping the volts in ATITool ? My max on stock volts are 675/972



Personnally I find ATITOOL quite a nuisance......I've tried it with the complete ATi ccc mom and all setup or with just the drivers etc etc............and never found it to be a extraordinary program (as most sofware overclockers) (except for the furry square I love it!!!and the temp gauge which seems better than the ATI dial arrangement)(In fact ATi should have something like that bundled on the CCC program)

However kudos to the programmer for writing it, or reverse engineering it.

So my card is running a stock (well not exactly) 7.4 Warcat driver and CCC and i'll forgo the voltage settings:shadedshu

That card is still a blast and runs all my(very few) gaming sessions.


----------



## DrXenos (Jun 11, 2007)

*His*

Anyone here having problems with HIS?  I like their card well enough, but I am finding I do not like the company and will never purchase from them again.  Every email I have sent to them requesting technical support has gone unanswered.  Also, they sent me the wrong game (their cards come with a coupon for a free game).  They use an outside company for this.  I emailed that company about the problem.  Their response was that I have to call them.  Call them.  They want me to make a transatlantic telephone call to solve what should be a simple problem.  That will cost more than the game is even worth.  I emailed HIS about this, and again, not response.  I should have gone with my first impulse and bought a diamond (or even a sapphire).

Sigh.


----------



## erocker (Jun 12, 2007)

I am thinking of getting a Thermalright tr-03 heatsink and a 92mm fan.  I'll keep the vrm sinks from the HIS cooler.  Do you think I can get a better overclock out of my x1950 with it, or will it just be limited by voltage?


----------



## erocker (Jun 12, 2007)

DrXenos said:


> Anyone here having problems with HIS?  I like their card well enough, but I am finding I do not like the company and will never purchase from them again.  Every email I have sent to them requesting technical support has gone unanswered.  Also, they sent me the wrong game (their cards come with a coupon for a free game).  They use an outside company for this.  I emailed that company about the problem.  Their response was that I have to call them.  Call them.  They want me to make a transatlantic telephone call to solve what should be a simple problem.  That will cost more than the game is even worth.  I emailed HIS about this, and again, not response.  I should have gone with my first impulse and bought a diamond (or even a sapphire).
> 
> Sigh.



So, is there a problem with the card?  Getting the wrong game happens all the time, you just have to deal with it.  So what is the problem?


----------



## Wayward (Jun 12, 2007)

DrXenos said:


> Anyone here having problems with HIS?  I like their card well enough, but I am finding I do not like the company and will never purchase from them again.  Every email I have sent to them requesting technical support has gone unanswered.  Also, they sent me the wrong game (their cards come with a coupon for a free game).  They use an outside company for this.  I emailed that company about the problem.  Their response was that I have to call them.  Call them.  They want me to make a transatlantic telephone call to solve what should be a simple problem.  That will cost more than the game is even worth.  I emailed HIS about this, and again, not response.  I should have gone with my first impulse and bought a diamond (or even a sapphire).
> 
> Sigh.



Never had any problems with HIS cards.  I had a HIS 1900gt for quite some time.  

So what is the problem with your card?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 12, 2007)

Game or no game most of the time the games supplied are drab. What is your problem Xenos?


----------



## bundlebr (Jun 12, 2007)

erocker said:


> I am thinking of getting a Thermalright tr-03 heatsink and a 92mm fan.  I'll keep the vrm sinks from the HIS cooler.  Do you think I can get a better overclock out of my x1950 with it, or will it just be limited by voltage?



Doubt if you can get better overclock from your already OC'd card. Better temps - probably.
I have this HS on Sapphire reference PCIe card and was able to up the freqs from 580 to 614 on the GPU. You are already at 635...
BTW, there is voltage table in my bios, so I upped juces to 1.425 V or so - not sure if it worked...
Anyway, with Thermalright the temps and noise went way down...


----------



## DrXenos (Jun 13, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Game or no game most of the time the games supplied are drab. What is your problem Xenos?



Getting the wrong game, and then getting no response about it, just increased my frustration when I never got an initial response from them about my main issue.  Sometimes, admittedly quite infrequently, the display will get all corrupted.  It only happens in 3d apps. and games, and the only fix is to reboot.  I can usually make it happen if I run 3dmarks (05 or 06) over and over.  Its not heat.  The cards has never gone above 49 c.  I thought it was my agp bus getting out of sync., but dropping my rate down to 4x and/or disabling fast writes doesn't stop it.  Doing a clean install of the drivers made the occurrences go way, way, down but did not totally alleviated it.  I'm sorry for the rant.  I just get very frustrated when I am ignored by a company that has taken a lot of my money.  They won't get any more.

Thanks,

DrX


----------



## Wayward (Jun 13, 2007)

DrXenos said:


> Getting the wrong game, and then getting no response about it, just increased my frustration when I never got an initial response from them about my main issue.  Sometimes, admittedly quite infrequently, the display will get all corrupted.  It only happens in 3d apps. and games, and the only fix is to reboot.  I can usually make it happen if I run 3dmarks (05 or 06) over and over.  Its not heat.  The cards has never gone above 49 c.  I thought it was my agp bus getting out of sync., but dropping my rate down to 4x and/or disabling fast writes doesn't stop it.  Doing a clean install of the drivers made the occurrences go way, way, down but did not totally alleviated it.  I'm sorry for the rant.  I just get very frustrated when I am ignored by a company that has taken a lot of my money.  They won't get any more.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> DrX



Oh, so it's just the game...  

...nvm.


----------



## DrXenos (Jun 14, 2007)

Wayward said:


> Oh, so it's just the game...
> 
> ...nvm.



No.  Where did I say that?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 14, 2007)

DrXenos said:


> Getting the wrong game, and then getting no response about it, just increased my frustration when I never got an initial response from them about my main issue.  Sometimes, admittedly quite infrequently, the display will get all corrupted.  It only happens in 3d apps. and games, and the only fix is to reboot.  I can usually make it happen if I run 3dmarks (05 or 06) over and over.  Its not heat.  The cards has never gone above 49 c.  I thought it was my agp bus getting out of sync., but dropping my rate down to 4x and/or disabling fast writes doesn't stop it.  Doing a clean install of the drivers made the occurrences go way, way, down but did not totally alleviated it.  I'm sorry for the rant.  I just get very frustrated when I am ignored by a company that has taken a lot of my money.  They won't get any more.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> DrX



It would help if you did provide your system specs, stop blaming HIS, this sounds more like your PSU can't handle it... Generally the main problem is people overlook the need for a decent PSU. Something like at least an Antec Basiq 500W PSU would do... But I'm not saying you should get it. Get like a Decent 600W PSU from something like antec, 600W is overkill in my opinion as most gaming PCs barely use near 400W. 600W because you can use it for a future PC. 

As I said post your system specs, go to user CP, then enter it in.


----------



## DrXenos (Jun 15, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> It would help if you did provide your system specs, stop blaming HIS, this sounds more like your PSU can't handle it... Generally the main problem is people overlook the need for a decent PSU. Something like at least an Antec Basiq 500W PSU would do... But I'm not saying you should get it. Get like a Decent 600W PSU from something like antec, 600W is overkill in my opinion as most gaming PCs barely use near 400W. 600W because you can use it for a future PC.
> 
> As I said post your system specs, go to user CP, then enter it in.



I never "blamed" HIS for the problem.  I fault them for not responding to my requests for support.  My PSU is fine.  I have a Power & Cooling 730 watt w/ a 60 amp rail.

DrX


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 16, 2007)

lol... Jetway just released a GDDR4 X1950PRO.


----------



## MadCow (Jun 20, 2007)

How about this PRO:






As you can see, it's the newer Sapphire PCB with the cheaper VRM's. I put on an Accelero X2 and a custom heatsink for the VRM's made out of a really old northbridge cooler . I have it voltmodded to 1.49 core and 1.98 memory. Without the heatsink the VRM's got really hot under load, so I cut up an old northbridge cooler and stuck it on with the stock thermal pads. Right now it's running at 682/1608 100% stable. I got the core up to 700 once, but it locked up after a few seconds of 3dmark. The memory goes up to around 1700, but that causes artifacts after a few minutes.

Am I in?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 20, 2007)

MadCow said:


> How about this PRO:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah and remove that heatsink, its doing nothing XD. U are cooling the MOFSETs. u see them? If u want cool the rest.


----------



## MadCow (Jun 20, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Yeah and remove that heatsink, its doing nothing XD. U are cooling the MOFSETs. u see them? If u want cool the rest.



Really? Because without the heatsink the vreg almost burned my finger when I held it there for a second. That's pretty hot in my book. But the heatsink is there just in case, it took me 2 minutes to make it, might as well leave it there.

The MOSFETS don't get nearly as hot as the vregs.


----------



## insider (Jun 21, 2007)

The vreg, mosfets and caps all get hot, infact even the darn PCB surface on my card runs HOT at idle.

I've sinked all of them including the mosfets at the back of the card and the GPU voltage controller, one small heatsink (or even those tiny slim copper ramsinks) could cover 2 mosfets per sink, either is sufficient for the job.  The vregs should be sinked with individual heatsinks.

Due to the height of the tiny square heatsink on the GPU voltage controller chip I had to epoxy a taller heatsink at the back of the card directly onto the cards PCB surface (to protect the VC from accidently getting crushed), even the heatsink directly on the PCB surface gets pretty warn, all this with overkill case airflow.

Which reminds me, I need to replace the stock cooler asap!


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 21, 2007)

They run hot? Well i thought Sapphire went for a Vreg free PCB... 

Gigabyte is the best brand IMHO. Solid caps no vregs  Im barfing at those G-Luxons sapphire love to use...


----------



## MadCow (Jun 21, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> They run hot? Well i thought Sapphire went for a Vreg free PCB...
> 
> Gigabyte is the best brand IMHO. Solid caps no vregs  Im barfing at those G-Luxons sapphire love to use...



They did, but I have mine voltmodded to 1.49 core and 1.98 memory. They still have vregs, you just can't adjust them. I could do some cutting for the MOSFETs, but I don't really see the point.

@insider: You really need to replace the stock cooler, my PCB got really hot on load, with this Accelero everything including the part right behind the core runs cool.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 22, 2007)

MadCow said:


> They did, but I have mine voltmodded to 1.49 core and 1.98 memory. They still have vregs, you just can't adjust them. I could do some cutting for the MOSFETs, but I don't really see the point.
> 
> @insider: You really need to replace the stock cooler, my PCB got really hot on load, with this Accelero everything including the part right behind the core runs cool.



Man I just installed the VRM plate on the heatsinks, even though i already have one, im going to install some behind the VRMs... the space behind it gets too hot to touch


----------



## Oliver (Jun 22, 2007)

*Bit it*

Well here it is and installed and blowing me away............Sapphire HD 2900XT

Bye bye x1950xt (broke it when trying to unglue a heatsink glued with Artic Epoxy) and the nethercooler from Zalman (in its box)

Does anybody have a softmod so as to show the oc pane in the CCC w/o the 8 pin plug????


----------



## MadCow (Jun 22, 2007)

Oliver said:


> Well here it is and installed and blowing me away............Sapphire HD 2900XT
> 
> Bye bye x1950xt (broke it when trying to unglue a heatsink glued with Artic Epoxy) and the nethercooler from Zalman (in its box)
> 
> Does anybody have a softmod so as to show the oc pane in the CCC w/o the 8 pin plug????



The newest version of ATITool can overclock the R600 now, you should try that instead.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 22, 2007)

Oliver said:


> Well here it is and installed and blowing me away............Sapphire HD 2900XT
> 
> Bye bye x1950xt (broke it when trying to unglue a heatsink glued with Artic Epoxy) and the nethercooler from Zalman (in its box)
> 
> Does anybody have a softmod so as to show the oc pane in the CCC w/o the 8 pin plug????



Not at the moment no, but I think the AMD Clock tool will work; its the best Overclocking tool minus the extra features.


----------



## Wile E (Jun 23, 2007)

.27 Beta 2 of ATITool just released, it supports the 2900.

Here's the thread: http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=33447


----------



## Oliver (Jun 24, 2007)

*A few numbers*

I love my new GPU


a few numbers:

core 850 mem 1007 

3d03 1024x768 basic default settings: 42365
3d05 1024x768 basic default settings: 19633
3d06 1024x768 basic default settings: 13767

and that with cool temps:

ASIC Temperature via LM64 on DDC3 I2C [0]
	Minimum temperature: 45.500 C
	Maximum temperature: 75.625 C
	Average temperature: 50.754 C

LM64 local temperature on DDC3 I2C [0]
	Minimum temperature: 44.000 C
	Maximum temperature: 65.000 C
	Average temperature: 48.232 C


----------



## DOM (Jun 24, 2007)

Oliver said:


> I love my new GPU
> 
> 
> a few numbers:
> ...


1280x1024 is default settings for 3DM06


----------



## Oliver (Jun 24, 2007)

*ok*



DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> 1280x1024 is default settings for 3DM06



Ok i'll run a batch on that setting.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 24, 2007)

Oliver said:


> Ok i'll run a batch on that setting.





3d03 1280x1024 basic default settings: 32854 3DMarks
3d05 1280x1024 basic default settings: 18342 3DMarks
3d06 1280x1024 basic default settings: 12228 3DMarks


Woooot!!!


----------



## Wile E (Jun 24, 2007)

Oliver said:


> 3d03 1280x1024 basic default settings: 32854 3DMarks
> 3d05 1280x1024 basic default settings: 18342 3DMarks
> 3d06 1280x1024 basic default settings: 12228 3DMarks
> 
> ...


What are you using to overclock, Oliver? With ATITool, I got a better score with mem at 999, than I did with mem at 1013ish, and both were completely stable with no artifacts.

It seems the latencies get loosened when you go above 999 on the memory. In other forums, others said they had to take it all the way to 1060 before they could beat the score 999 gave.


----------



## Oliver (Jun 24, 2007)

*Amd*



Wile E said:


> What are you using to overclock, Oliver? With ATITool, I got a better score with mem at 999, than I did with mem at 1013ish, and both were completely stable with no artifacts.
> 
> It seems the latencies get loosened when you go above 999 on the memory. In other forums, others said they had to take it all the way to 1060 before they could beat the score 999 gave.



Amd gpu tool its really lite n all...........the way I like them.

I've always had pbs with ATITOOL


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 28, 2007)

I'm screaming ouch at the new amd drivers... and GPUs.... Guys who have the R5xxx download the 7.6 Drivers asap if u think the 7.5 drivers were fast!!!


----------



## Widjaja (Jun 29, 2007)

*Are the Sapphire X1950pro 512mb referrence coolers really that bad?*

Around *76*deg max under load and the referrence coolers are quite loud at that load too.

Gaming is fine though.

Why would Sapphire put such a crappy cooler on this card?


----------



## anticlutch (Jun 29, 2007)

To save money.


----------



## Wayward (Jun 29, 2007)

anticlutch said:


> To save money.



Exactly.  Imagine the cost of mounting really good coolers on all their cards...


----------



## Oliver (Jun 29, 2007)

*I don't agree*



Wayward said:


> Exactly.  Imagine the cost of mounting really good coolers on all their cards...



Imagine RMA ing every single card sold..........costs even more; really the stock cooler is good at stock speeds and a little ( ocing with CCC for example)

However to get best performance you definitely need to modify your cooling


----------



## Wayward (Jun 30, 2007)

Oliver said:


> Imagine RMA ing every single card sold..........costs even more; really the stock cooler is good at stock speeds and a little ( ocing with CCC for example)
> 
> However to get best performance you definitely need to modify your cooling



Wait, are you saying that, hypothetically, if the manufacturer shipped their cards with decent coolers, everyone would start overclocking and breaking them?  Because I've seen several companies ship cards with aftermarket coolers pre-installed for a premium.

I swapped my stock for a vf-900 not to overclock, but to get what I consider to be decent temps.  Yes the card will work at the temps provided by the stock cooler, but it's a little too close for comfort from my perspective.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 30, 2007)

Wayward said:


> Wait, are you saying that, hypothetically, if the manufacturer shipped their cards with decent coolers, everyone would start overclocking and breaking them?  Because I've seen several companies ship cards with aftermarket coolers pre-installed for a premium.
> 
> I swapped my stock for a vf-900 not to overclock, but to get what I consider to be decent temps.  Yes the card will work at the temps provided by the stock cooler, but it's a little too close for comfort from my perspective.



No, reason why sapphire uses those cooler is because AMD wont bitch... if they used full copper, you wouldnt see the problems that they have atm.


----------



## Widjaja (Jun 30, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> No, reason why sapphire uses those cooler is because AMD wont bitch... if they used full copper, you wouldnt see the problems that they have atm.



That's pretty stupid.
Cheaping out and from what I'm gathering around the place it's *costing* them

I really like this card but I won't be *OC*ing it with it's referrence cooler howling away under load.

Only if Sapphire had at least placed a sexy IceQ3 cooler on it. . . .

Anyway the gains I got out of this card when moving to a *x2 4800+* *CPU *from the *P4 3Ghz HT *have been worthwhile *IMO*.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 30, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> That's pretty stupid.
> Cheaping out and from what I'm gathering around the place it's *costing* them
> 
> I really like this card but I won't be *OC*ing it with it's referrence cooler howling away under load.
> ...



Sapphires with better cooling overclock better.


----------



## Wayward (Jun 30, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> Only if Sapphire had at least placed a sexy IceQ3 cooler on it. . . .



IceQ3 is a HIS only thing unfortunately.  It's the best dual-slot exhaust type cooler I've seen.  But you'll still see better temps with the vf-900 or the AccelroX-2.  This thread has all the proof you need.  I was surprised myself that the vf-900 which doesn't exhaust hot air is superior to the IceQ3 which does.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 30, 2007)

Wayward said:


> IceQ3 is a HIS only thing unfortunately.  It's the best dual-slot exhaust type cooler I've seen.  But you'll still see better temps with the vf-900 or the AccelroX-2.  This thread has all the proof you need.  I was surprised myself that the vf-900 which doesn't exhaust hot air is superior to the IceQ3 which does.



Yeah HIS finally went to themselves "Well lets make our own graphics card cooler"

Fresh cooler air doesnt really do anything just to let you know.... thats why the AcceleroX2/VF900CU work better, they got more surface area and more heatpipes.


----------



## Oliver (Jul 2, 2007)

*Better*



Oliver said:


> 3d03 1280x1024 basic default settings: 32854 3DMarks
> 
> 
> 
> Woooot!!!



Even better with 7.6 cats:
3DMark03 Score	42119 3DMarks
3dmark 05 and 06 follow suite
3DMark Score	21287 3DMarks
3DMark 06Score	12469 3DMarks

those ctas rock compared to the preceding version

I love the graphics of that 3dmark series


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 3, 2007)

Oliver, try investing in one of those swiftech kits...


----------



## Oliver (Jul 3, 2007)

*water??*



tkpenalty said:


> Oliver, try investing in one of those swiftech kits...



No thanx tk I surf on water, and cool on air


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 3, 2007)

Oliver said:


> No thanx tk I surf on water, and cool on air



Well it is still air cooled since the radiator is initially a large heatsink . Heatpipe cooling can be called water cooling because it has vapour (under extrememly high pressure though). Anyway, Lap the base of the cooler, and make sure you also even the shim, since the contact pressure may reduce with the bare die (damn AMD why couldnt they use an IHS instead?)


----------



## erocker (Jul 3, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Heatpipe cooling can be called water cooling because it has vapour (under extrememly high pressure though



That is a myth.  Nothing but air @ 0 p.s.i. in those pipes.


----------



## anticlutch (Jul 3, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Well it is still air cooled since the radiator is initially a large heatsink . Heatpipe cooling can be called water cooling because it has vapour (under extrememly high pressure though). Anyway, Lap the base of the cooler, and make sure you also even the shim, since the contact pressure may reduce with the bare die (damn AMD why couldnt they use an IHS instead?)



You mean extremely low pressure 
The boiling point of water becomes lower when the pressure drops.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 4, 2007)

oh yeah... same thing. Hey guys can you give votes of 5 to my C2D clubhouse if you havent? Been some guys constantly annoying me.


----------



## Random Murderer (Jul 4, 2007)

first off, i figured i'd come in here since a lot of you guys have the his 1950 pro.

is anyone with the iceq3 cooler willing to trade for a vf 900 and some ramsinks? my dual cards dont match and its driving me nuts!


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 4, 2007)

Random Murderer said:


> first off, i figured i'd come in here since a lot of you guys have the his 1950 pro.
> 
> is anyone with the iceq3 cooler willing to trade for a vf 900 and some ramsinks? my dual cards dont match and its driving me nuts!



Why dont you ring up HIS and buy an ICEQIII cooler off them? I really wish they made them a seperate product though..  Just buy another VF900CU.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 4, 2007)

Oh yeah to anyone considering going with the HD2400PRO, HD2400XT, HD2600PRO, HD2600XT I would go with an X1950GT Instead for now. Wait until AMD starts focusing on improving DX10 since their driver releases only seem to do better for the RV5xx/R5xx GPUs.


----------



## Oliver (Jul 4, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Well it is still air cooled since the radiator is initially a large heatsink .


Too cool.........my car is air cooled ; my ac is air cooled; I'm air cooled;everything is aircooled..........How about an aircooled earth, might take care of the global warming Pb........even though its july and we're freezing our asses here.

Cool: open the window and lower the temps (not joking I can drop 2° with that method)


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 4, 2007)

Oliver said:


> Too cool.........my car is air cooled ; my ac is air cooled; I'm air cooled;everything is aircooled..........How about an aircooled earth, might take care of the global warming Pb........even though its july and we're freezing our asses here.
> 
> Cool: open the window and lower the temps (not joking I can drop 2° with that method)



Oh yeah? Ill get the windows open and a large blower fan! (This is getting way off topic ).


----------



## Oliver (Jul 4, 2007)

Random Murderer said:


> first off, i figured i'd come in here since a lot of you guys have the his 1950 pro.
> 
> is anyone with the iceq3 cooler willing to trade for a vf 900 and some ramsinks? my dual cards dont match and its driving me nuts!



I can sell you my Vf900 cu if you like.........


----------



## Oliver (Jul 4, 2007)

*Seriously*



tkpenalty said:


> Oh yeah? Ill get the windows open and a large blower fan! (This is getting way off topic ).



Seriously I don't like the idea of running my HD2900xt on water, or otherwise think out a super efficient system to cool the mems with multiple small blocks or a large one like the one swiftech makes for Nvidia.......I'll hold back and see what develops. For now anyway I lke my HD as it is running 850/1007 ......

never crashes and stays relatively cool (max temp in 3d06 at those speeds extraced from amd tool log file:-notice the speeds are slightly lower than the settings
19:33:22, ASIC Temperature via LM64 on DDC3 I2C [0] (C) = 73.875, LM64 local temperature on DDC3 I2C [0] (C) = 63.000, MCLK(MHz)[0] = 999.00, SCLK(MHz)[0] = 843.75


----------



## Random Murderer (Jul 4, 2007)

Oliver said:


> I can sell you my Vf900 cu if you like.........



i would really prefer another iceq3. thanks a bunch though!


----------



## DOM (Jul 4, 2007)

I got one but dont think I would sell it


----------



## Random Murderer (Jul 4, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> I got one but dont think I would sell it



how bout trade it for a vf900 and some ramsinks?


----------



## DOM (Jul 4, 2007)

Random Murderer said:


> how bout trade it for a vf900 and some ramsinks?



They dont work that good on the 1950XT I get the same or better temps with the IceQ3 and puls if I need to RMA it I need the cooler sorry


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 5, 2007)

DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E said:


> They dont work that good on the 1950XT I get the same or better temps with the IceQ3 and puls if I need to RMA it I need the cooler sorry



In fact they die on the X1950XT... 90*C WTF....


----------



## insider (Jul 5, 2007)

Small surface area and the fan on it isn't powerful enough to cool down all the cooper fins fast enough, you could probably rip the stock fan off and install a higher CFM fan but I doubt it'll perform that great unless you stick something crazy like a 92mm Vantec Tornado.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 6, 2007)

lol let me unofficially invite my friend who isnt in this forum into the club.







 What to u think about the setup i did for him?


----------



## Random Murderer (Jul 6, 2007)

ok. i got my 1950 pro crossfire up and running. im in da club now!


----------



## insider (Jul 6, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> lol let me unofficially invite my friend who isnt in this forum into the club.
> What to u think about the setup i did for him?



Nice case, I'd install standard slot covers over those ones that allow air through, all the cool air should be flowing from the case front and hot air should be passing out of the rear case fan.


----------



## TonyStark (Jul 6, 2007)

Good afternoon Gentlemen.

I finally got my hands on one of these bad boys. Gigabyte HD2900XT.







Needs a bit of cable management, but I just couldn't wait to test it out!


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 6, 2007)

insider said:


> Nice case, I'd install standard slot covers over those ones that allow air through, all the cool air should be flowing from the case front and hot air should be passing out of the rear case fan.



Those are the standard slot covers...


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 6, 2007)

TonyStark said:


> Good afternoon Gentlemen.
> 
> I finally got my hands on one of these bad boys. Gigabyte HD2900XT.
> 
> ...



very nice  Especially with the HD2900XT installed. What case are you using? Antec SONATA II?


----------



## TonyStark (Jul 6, 2007)

Thanks. It is the CoolerMaster Centurion.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 7, 2007)

Oh yeah guys the sapphire X1950PROs, they've switched back to the old normal PCB HOWEVER, there is a welcome change, they've bolted a large aluminium heatsinks to cool the VRMs. The cooler is the same X1950GT cooler. So buy the sapphire X1950PRO if you plan on using a water cooling setup.

What I'm saying is, you just need to rip off the stock cooler and not need to use a VRM plate for aftermarket cooling.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 8, 2007)

almighty said:


> Whats the temps for a stock 1950 PRO AGP?
> 
> Idle and Load?
> 
> And what roughly should they be when there OC'd? whats the max load temp before i start to get worried about it burning out?



the stock cooler of the X1950PRO AGP? Well the reference design did around 65*C On load and 45+*C On idle. However sapphire's version of the cooler is aluminium and temps are like 75*C +. Anyway burning out would be around 120*C.

However anything around 70*C will reduce your lifespan of the GPU and I would at max have the GPU running at 65*C. Anything higher = FAIL for me.

^whoops...


----------



## wolf (Jul 10, 2007)

update on my cooling situation.

a few months ago i did a Zalman Fatal1ty FC-ZV9, ramsinks, and VRM cooling, on a Sapphire x1950Pro AGP 512, and that worked brilliantly, i don't think i ever saw 50 degrees.

now i have taken the case side off. and backed a cheap old air conditioning unit next to it, the air is cooler than room temp but my no means cold or icy, new temps are as follows.

GPU MIN/MAX     28.3/44.3              AVG MIN/MAX       29/43

PCB MIN/MAX     22.0/29.0              AVG MIN/MAX       23/27

all of these tests were using the ati cube to stress it out, clocks are at 600/1430

the cubes pushes it much more than games too, so far i haven't topped 40 degrees playing ANY game yet, bf2142, hl2, c&c3.... thats lower on load now that the stock cooler pulled at idle, and nye on exactly half the temp that it pulled under full load with a dynamic fan.

Cheapest cooling solution EVER, my hot hot old Prescott's down by over 10 degrees on idle and load too. i picked this thing up on a verge pickup, someone was throwing it out, all it needed was a 30 second fix (and i'm hardly a handyman), 10 liters of water gives me about 6 hours worth of "chilly" gaming, so since i'm on holidays, i'll just skip showers to accommodate the water 

so is it still air cooling, water cooling, or both?


----------



## TonyStark (Jul 11, 2007)

LOL. Nice cooling setup. How are those electricity bills?


----------



## wolf (Jul 11, 2007)

iunno, havent seen one yet , and i gotta fill it with water too, today i did some testing with some big iceblocks, and a buttload of icecubes in the water, so the water was at about 5-6 degrees for an hour or so, temps are as follows.

3d cube test

GPU MIN/MAX    24.6  /  41.1
PCB MIN/MAX    18.0  /  23.0

so there wasnt much variation between using super chilly water and normal water (2-6 degrees), but the difference between water and no water is 7+ degrees, which is weird cos on fan only temps all thru the case only lower by about a degree or two, i guess the antec P180 has great stock ventilation anyway.


----------



## mitsirfishi (Jul 11, 2007)

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=3232144 still can get abit more out the cpu and cutting more processes out and could do with a vcore mod to my card recon 11.5k would be acheivable


----------



## DOM (Jul 11, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=3232144 still can get abit more out the cpu and cutting more processes out and could do with a vcore mod to my card recon 11.5k would be acheivable



What do you get on 3DM06 ??


----------



## mitsirfishi (Jul 11, 2007)

im downloading it  but last time i tried before i formatted i got 5.8k


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 13, 2007)

5.8k? Thats pretty nice.

Crap.. my AcceleroX2 is starting to buzz I think its that bios mod thats causing it. Anyone who has a X1950PRO with an AcceleroX2 installed for more than two months, may you please check the cooler, there WILL be a lot of dust inside. Easy solution is to blow in from the fan side. OR use compressed air. Not recommended if your asthmatic because its a literal dust gun!

EDIT: Wolf, I recommend you swap the motherboard as well.


----------



## mitsirfishi (Jul 13, 2007)

arctic cooling always have vibration problems normally the bearings go in them quiet quick


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 13, 2007)

Doesnt work.........

Anyway a bit of help here......... (GOING OFF TOPIC)

My old system has a problem, replaced PSU got a 9800XT..........now its making a whine-squeal type of noise.

Also more odd the 12v and 5v rails keep going from 12.2 to 12.1 then for the 5v, 5.01 4.9..... 

It gets odder. 

The CPU core temps go ballistic, all of a sudden 18*C then jumps to 21 then 18 again... weird.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 15, 2007)

^Screw what I posted.

Anyway with the antec SOLO, the temps of the X1950PRO dropped even further; by 2*C This is amazing! I've had nothing but drab luckc overclocking this thing. The only thing that gives better performance are the newer drivers.


----------



## insider (Jul 16, 2007)

Modified Arctic Accelero X2 with 1x 80mm 45CFM YS-Tech + 1x 60mm Panaflo fan on my Sapphire X1950GT:








The Arctic Accelero X2 with stock fan was a piece of junk as expected with that POS <10 CFM fan, barely 8C lower the stock cooler, modded with proper airflow the card is now around 15-18C cooler at full load with ATI-Tool artifact tester running on a warm day.

Another major issue with the X2 running with stock fan is all the heat is directed (via crap airflow) directly onto the motherboard, this heated my board up by a good few degrees during load.

Gonna replace that low noise (10-12~ CFM) 60mm panaflo with something double the output later...


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 17, 2007)

roflmao... 15-18*C cooler? Actual temps? But... THATS CRAZY  (looks very cool as well, kudos).

Hmm I might buy a 80mm fan the half size ones and attatch that instead .


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 20, 2007)

argh this clubhouse died? (BUMP)


----------



## insider (Jul 21, 2007)

It's the summer holiday period, well maybe not summer for aussies


----------



## TonyStark (Jul 22, 2007)

It is a cold winter here in Aus. Low temps = good overclocks.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Jul 22, 2007)

I just wanted to post here i HAD a x1950pro PCI-E with the ICE-Q3 cooler i had it overclocked to 650/1150 temps were 41c idle 56c load. The card is dead now.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 22, 2007)

wah? How did it die? RMA it.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Jul 22, 2007)

don't know how but it did.Your about 3 1/2 months too late i already did and they didn't have anymore of them so i got a 7900GS and i don't like it so it is for sale. I was just running 3dmark 06 and i got a screen full of diffrent colors and than the FPS went from about 40fps down to 14fps than the computer crashed and when i turned it back on i got beeps and checked to see what they were and it was the video card so i took it out and used onboard and i got my computer to post.I don't think it was being under powered i was powering it with the Hiper type-R that i am using now.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 22, 2007)

At least change the mobo and CPU


----------



## TonyStark (Jul 22, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> I just wanted to post here i HAD a x1950pro PCI-E with the ICE-Q3 cooler i had it overclocked to 650/1150 temps were 41c idle 56c load. The card is dead now.



1150 on the memory? How the hell did you pull that? Oh well, hope all goes well with the RMA.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Jul 22, 2007)

TonyStark said:


> 1150 on the memory? How the hell did you pull that? Oh well, hope all goes well with the RMA.



not sure how i did.Wish i still had the ss to show  you


----------



## NinkobEi (Jul 22, 2007)

so, ah can anyone point me to an x1950 (gt/pro are about the same I assume) volt mod page? 

Madcow pointed me to this pencil mod site http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=227931&highlight=x1950+pro+vmod

but I am unsure the exact details of a pencil mod. from what I gather, just use a #2 pencil and draw a line between the two diode looking things. (I'm not terribly hardware savvy)

just wanting to v-mod my memory to try to push Pro speeds.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 23, 2007)

No... not a lead pencil, electronic pencil, conductive ink. Anyway soldering will work the same but is a hassle to remove. But Im afraid thats already the max you can push your X1950GT... especailly since you have stock cooling.


----------



## Darknova (Jul 23, 2007)

I just got a 1950XT 512Mb version with an Accelero X2  The thing is so damn quiet....


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 23, 2007)

Grats , show us photos of it


----------



## Darknova (Jul 23, 2007)

Ok, but you'll have to wait until I finish work


----------



## Widjaja (Jul 23, 2007)

*Sapphire changed the X1950pro cooler?*

To something worse?

Helping out at Sapphire forums I came across this guy who ordered a Sapphire X1950pro AGP which looks to be fitted with a X1950GT cooler.

Come on the X1950pro standard cooler could only manage to cool the GPU to mid 70's while gaming.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 23, 2007)

Yes X1950PROs are now fitted with the X1950GT Cooler. BUT, they have reverted to the normal PCB and now use a large heatsink to cool the VRMs.


----------



## Widjaja (Jul 23, 2007)

Thanks that will make him feel a bit better.
Although he still has to get a new PSU to run it.
Damn the amount of times I seen this PSU issue posted. . . .
The moderators at Sapphire don't seem to be caring much.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 23, 2007)

What do u mean PSU issue...? People think you need a frickn nuclear powerplant to run this... well I'll say this once, the X1950PRO/GT are moderate power users, however its nothing to worry about, any 400W Non-Generic PSU that at least pumps out 200W on the 
There ARE bad brands out there but people be a bit less ignorant. 

This is why im trading my iGreen 600W for a NEO HE 430W. 

Anyway... PSU wise... I would say at least something as "weak" one of those Coolermaster Xtremepower 430W would be more than enough for an X1950PRO... cheap and solid. HD2900XT However...  Okay, um you DO need a decent PSU to get this thing running properly... I would say at LEAST an CM Xtremepower 550W. Anyway, something that kills everything at the same price as a NEO HE atm is the thermaltake toughpower, that thing is a BEAST. 600W, almost doubles  the amperages my PSU gives. The HD2900XT will run nicely on this PSU for sure.


----------



## Widjaja (Jul 23, 2007)

Lol thats what I've been hearing around the place.
My No name 450W +12v15a PSU was running it fine with my P4 rig.
I didn't have any issues.

But I keep on seeing threads of people not being able to get thier X1950pros to work. . .

Hold on.

Sapphire has dual molex connectors.

I wonder if he used the Y-splitter supplied in the package to power the GPU off one 4-pin molex power cable. . .

I just told him to go to the recommended PSU page which I think is at the ATi website.
Just so if it doesn't work he can blame it on someone who knows thier job.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 23, 2007)

450W Generic PSU = GTFO. As I said, at least a CM Xtreme power 430W, and what... that only costs a tiny bit more than generic POS yet works rock solid.


----------



## TonyStark (Jul 23, 2007)

I've said it before and I'll say it again; The x1950PRO only uses about 65 Watts. It only pulls about 5-6 Amps from the 12V rails. 

I'm currently running a HD2900XT on a 530W PSU with 32Amps on the 12V rails.


----------



## imperialreign (Jul 24, 2007)

tkp . . . you requiring permission to join up here, or just post away?


----------



## Widjaja (Jul 24, 2007)

450w Generic = GTFO?

Anyway TK and Tony thanks for pointing out the actual amperage consumption on these cards, now I'll tell the poor people at Sapphire who have these "PSU" issues and just RMA the card I guess.

Imperialreign
You'll need a pic of your card in your rig and 50+ posts, then I think you'll be accepted.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 24, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> tkp . . . you requiring permission to join up here, or just post away?



Yep your in for sure

But With ur build atm, I would do something about it, if you think its sufficient, so be it. I would sell the CPU, Mobo and RAM, then forking out some cash to get a new CPU (Like a E2140), RAM and motherboard, like one of those GA965P DS3s.



Widjaja said:


> 450w Generic = GTFO?
> 
> Anyway TK and Tony thanks for pointing out the actual amperage consumption on these cards, now I'll tell the poor people at Sapphire who have these "PSU" issues and just RMA the card I guess.
> 
> ...



Screw that rule 

GTFO = Get the fuck out. I mean by 450 Generic = deserves to be running a non 6-pin PCI-E system.


Imho, you guys are WAY overstressing the need for a good GPU cooler. If you dont overclock and dont mind the noise, it is pointless getting the Sapphire X1950PRO's cooler changed (Newer revision at least, the cooler does better than the original one, pretty sound performing). The GPU can take 120*C Before heat related artifacts and core damage begin, yes 70*C sounds a bit hot but dont bitch too much about it. One thing though, I would NEVER buy a thermaltake Soprano series case... Why? The intakes on sopranos NEVER work properly. GPUs run far cooler with a substantial intake. 75*C guys... not that bad, nevertheless... reports of it sounding like an F1.... where the hell did that come from?


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Jul 24, 2007)

just wanted to tell you that my next card is going to be an ATI it is going to be sometime still.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 24, 2007)

Hmm.... ATI eh? Wait for HD2900XT GDDR4 benchies to come out first. Only AMD cards recommended from me:

-X1950PRO (powercolor extreme, HIS, gigabyte)
-X1950XT (Sapphire)
-HD2900XT (Any brand, as long as there is warranty after OC, preferably sapphire).


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Jul 24, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Hmm.... ATI eh? Wait for HD2900XT GDDR4 benchies to come out first. Only AMD cards recommended from me:
> 
> -X1950PRO (powercolor extreme, HIS, gigabyte)
> -X1950XT (Sapphire)
> -HD2900XT (Any brand, as long as there is warranty after OC, preferably sapphire).



Had a HIS x1950pro died i was looking at a x1950xt but i was thinking of something that isn't out of date yet that is were a 2900xt came in.I got some time to think about it while i save my money.


----------



## Widjaja (Jul 24, 2007)

tkpenalty
I don't OC my GPU and I don't mind the noise at all.
The only time it's the loudest fan is for a couple of seconds before I startup my system
Actually when my PSU gets really working it makes a pulsing hum that virbrates the case.
Which is the most standout noise which comes from my rig.

I'm pretty sure you reccommended me to get a better cooler.

Why don't you recommend the Sapphire 1950pro model?

But yeah

I'm waiting till the AMD phenom comes out before I think of doing any more upgrading.

p o s
Why are you selling your 7900GS?

Be like my bro and get a eVGA 8800GTX and find out he has to OC his C2D to the extreme edition speed to keep up with it LOL!

Yet Oblivion is still stuttery on his rig.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 24, 2007)

Reason is simple for selling the 7900s...they are weak with newer games.


----------



## Widjaja (Jul 24, 2007)

Hmm sounds like a plan.
My braggy mate is looking for a new GPU to replace his 7600GT PCI-E
He thinks his Pentium D rig is the best!
Maybe I can con him into buying a 7900GS


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 24, 2007)

7900GS > 7600GT any day of the week. Give him need for speed carbon, that will shut him up, run it at 1024x786, medium shader, 4x aa max af, and then add motion blur... 

Anyway the X1950PRO doubles framerates in comparison with the 7950GT for a reference... the 7900GS in NFS:C is very close to the 7600GT...

You should really show him some newer games like COH and NFS:C... those games are extremely shader intensive.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Jul 24, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> Hmm sounds like a plan.
> My braggy mate is looking for a new GPU to replace his 7600GT PCI-E
> He thinks his Pentium D rig is the best!
> Maybe I can con him into buying a 7900GS



if so please buy mine you can see pics if you click the link to go to my FS thread.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Jul 24, 2007)

about need for speed carbon when i run it i can have almost everything maxed running at 1024x768 but also this card is overclocked to 500/690 when at the 450/660 (i think) the rated speed it can't run NFSC vary well but it is the KO video card so 500/690 is the speed that it comes from EVGA as and i have got it up to 560/720 for a short time for benchmarking and it worked fine so this thing still has some room to go if someone wanted to overclock.


----------



## imperialreign (Jul 24, 2007)

> But With ur build atm, I would do something about it, if you think its sufficient, so be it. I would sell the CPU, Mobo and RAM, then forking out some cash to get a new CPU (Like a E2140), RAM and motherboard, like one of those GA965P DS3s.



no doubt about that, little by little, y'know?  Starting to save for the next big upgrade for my rig; currently eyeballin either a Giga or Abit mobo (still undecided on that yet) but preferably something with crossfire capabilities - in which case, I'll be looking to pick up an HD2900, but defi looking at either the Intel Core 2 Extreme or an Intel Core 2 Duo - either way I'll be shelling fat cash there, and no skimp on the RAM either.  I'd also like to swap out the HD's for RAID enabled units.  Oh, and I'll have to defi grab a new case, this eMachines is cramped as it is (but somehow I've managed to keep it relatively cool).

It's just a little struggle, I had to buy something back in Jan, after going for 2 years without a rig - so I'm still a little behind on the newer tech as it is.  Hell, my old rig was a Pentium(II) 400MMX, running a VooDoo3 graphics adapter, and a Soundblaster Live! for audio.  She vintage, man!

BTW - you still requiring pics of my card and rig?  I'll post em if needs be . . .


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Jul 24, 2007)

you want a pic from were i had my x1950pro? I still have a pic of it.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Jul 24, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> 7900GS > 7600GT any day of the week. Give him need for speed carbon, that will shut him up, run it at 1024x786, medium shader, 4x aa max af, and then add motion blur...
> 
> Anyway the X1950PRO doubles framerates in comparison with the 7950GT for a reference... the 7900GS in NFS:C is very close to the 7600GT...
> 
> You should really show him some newer games like COH and NFS:C... those games are extremely shader intensive.



Here is ss of NFSC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/URL][/IMG]





[/URL][/IMG]
that is CPU at 2.6ghz and GPU at 500mhz and vram at 690mhz on my EVGA 7900GS KO


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Jul 25, 2007)

could someone that has a HD2900XT tell me how long it is in inches?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 25, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> Here is ss of NFSC
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Show us a canyon race, choose knife's edge, vs some players and go in front of them, THEN take a screenshot at 1280x1024. That will show you what I mean... Settings:

1280x1024
4xAA 
Antiso
World Detail High
Shader Detail High
Car Detail High
Reflection upate High
Rain effect High
Vsync Off
Motion Blur off

Yeah try those. From what I can see from those pics... the textures seem very washed out.


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## p_o_s_pc (Jul 25, 2007)

don't own the game demo or i would but i don't think that is bad that is without pushing my GPU or vram and my CPU isn't being pushed to the limit i still can get about 350mhz higher on CPU and about 120 on the system RAM on the GPU i know i can go about 35 higher with the temp it is in here and the vram can go higher still by about 60mhz (30mhz)


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## p_o_s_pc (Jul 25, 2007)

Here are the settings 





Here are the FPS 




damn photobucket resizing.BTW  the clock speed on CPU is 24mhz higher.


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## Wile E (Jul 25, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> could someone that has a HD2900XT tell me how long it is in inches?


Approx 9.5" It's just barely shorter than an ATX mobo.


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## p_o_s_pc (Jul 25, 2007)

Thanks my mobo is 9.5in and i can fit a bigger one in the case and my harddrive isn't in the way so i will be able to fit it. I will worry about a video card after i get cooling taken care of.


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## Wile E (Jul 25, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> Thanks my mobo is 9.5in and i can fit a bigger one in the case and my harddrive isn't in the way so i will be able to fit it. I will worry about a video card after i get cooling taken care of.


Yeah, even if there was a hard drive cage in the way, it's not a problem, because the power connectors are on top of the card, facing the side panel, not on the back, facing the drive bays, like the older cards.


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## p_o_s_pc (Jul 25, 2007)

BTW i wanted an ATI card but at the time after my x1950pro died there was no ATI card in stock that i wanted or was as fast as my 7900gs when overclocked and i didn't want to wait.So if the 2900XT is 9.5in than it is about the same as the x1950pro i had. How much power does a 2900xt need?


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## p_o_s_pc (Jul 25, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Yeah, even if there was a hard drive cage in the way, it's not a problem, because the power connectors are on top of the card, facing the side panel, not on the back, facing the drive bays, like the older cards.



They were smart about that.That is a good idea the cards are getting longer so they were going to have to do something so they can fit in a mid tower.


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## Wile E (Jul 25, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> BTW i wanted an ATI card but at the time after my x1950pro died there was no ATI card in stock that i wanted or was as fast as my 7900gs when overclocked and i didn't want to wait.So if the 2900XT is 9.5in than it is about the same as the x1950pro i had. How much power does a 2900xt need?


I couldn't tell you for sure how much power it consumes, but my Corsair HX620 psu handles my system without problems. The fan never speeds up to audible levels under load, so it's still running pretty cool.

How many amps does your psu do on the 12v?


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## p_o_s_pc (Jul 25, 2007)

12v1@20a, 12v2@18a


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## Wile E (Jul 25, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> 12v1@20a, 12v2@18a


That may be cutting it close.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Jul 25, 2007)

i want to get a new PSU maybe i will have to put off a video card longer till i get a new higher power PSU.


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## mandelore (Jul 25, 2007)

that IScutting it close, maybe too close.

I had 35A on my 12v rail, and dont think thats enuff for overclocking it taking  the rest of my rig into consideration. I purchased a months use on that ppower supply calculator website and it showed i needed at least 38A on my 12V rail, and that was with a stock 2900xt and my oc'd opty 185 and rest of the stuff in my rig  so im waiting on a psu upgrade 2day, 52A on 12v rail should sort me out


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## Wile E (Jul 25, 2007)

When you go to buy a psu, If you can swing it, you can't go wrong with a Corsair HX520 or 620. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...=2010320058+50001459&name=Corsair+Memory,+Inc.

The 520 has 40A on the 12v, and the 620 has 50A.


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## tkpenalty (Jul 25, 2007)

38 amps? Thats pretty decent.


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## Wile E (Jul 25, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> 38 amps? Thats pretty decent.


20+18 doesn't equal 38 in a multi rail psu. There are efficiency losses and other things to consider. I'm willing to bet it's closer to 30-32A combined.


----------



## mandelore (Jul 25, 2007)

btw, any1 found any alternative method to change the voltages on the 2900xt, in perticular the 1gb version? atitool dont even work fullstop for me. driving me nuts, posted my log a few times and asked wiz but didnt get a reply, which is fair enuff, hes a busy person

just sux being stuck at stock voltages. and im waiting on dangerden to release their full coverage waterblock so ill get it all nice and chilly


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## mandelore (Jul 25, 2007)

Wile E said:


> 20+18 doesn't equal 38 in a multi rail psu. There are efficiency losses and other things to consider. I'm willing to bet it's closer to 30-32A combined.



was tk not commenting on my post about being quoted 38A as a minimum i needed on my 12v rail?


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## Wile E (Jul 25, 2007)

mandelore said:


> was tk not commenting on my post about being quoted 38A as a minimum i needed on my 12v rail?


Ah could be. Didn't even see yours, tbh. lol. Eh, either way, it's good info, so I'll leave it. lol


----------



## mandelore (Jul 25, 2007)

well yes, thats a fair point, always good for peeps to know that


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## tkpenalty (Jul 25, 2007)

Yes as you guys said, you are right. However, PSU mfgr's these days rarely put their continuous output, my PSU has it though, giving 38A Continuous (proper rating). 456 Divided by 12 gives 38, 38 amps, thus my 12v rail supplies 456W.

As I said... Many PSUs aren't really worth buying; they NEVER label the continous amperages only CM and Corsair are the mfgrs that show the Continuous amperages... My PSU could be considered a 700W PSU if you used the max wattage rating instead.

Anyway off with the rant. 

336W on the 12v Rail is sorta low, however a normal system with a C2D/Athlon X2, two optical drives and one hdd and a X1950GT/X1950PRO, will only consume 300W at load, and thats COUNTING the other rails too. I wouldnt really worry about it THAT much. To tell if the sticker is "lying" about it, all you need to do is divide the wattage for the 12v rail by 12, then you will find the actual wattage...


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## Wile E (Jul 25, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Yes as you guys said, you are right. However, PSU mfgr's these days rarely put their continuous output, my PSU has it though, giving 38A Continuous (proper rating). 456 Divided by 12 gives 38, 38 amps, thus my 12v rail supplies 456W.
> 
> As I said... Many PSUs aren't really worth buying; they NEVER label the continous amperages only CM and Corsair are the mfgrs that show the Continuous amperages... My PSU could be considered a 700W PSU if you used the max wattage rating instead.


Seasonic and PCP&C also do continuous ratings, iirc.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 25, 2007)

Yeah I dont like mfgrs that dont show it... its VERY dishonest. But PSUs like my iGreen are selling badly because of the amperage rating... people THINK its weak. Well most PSU's i've seen with a 700W Label (*Cough Cough*) are weaker... Thermaltake is an exception though.

Antec NEO HE 430W can run 2 X1950PROs in Crossfire btw guys...


----------



## imperialreign (Jul 26, 2007)

xFire typically requires what kinda power, BTW?
part of the reason I opted for a Hiper 580W - just to have enough overhead for further upgrades

Oh, I did have a coupla questions per the X1950 PRO's

1.  Curious . . . is it possible to flash the GPU BIOS to that of a different PRO model?  Possibly one where the BIOS does support hardware monitoring?

2.  As best I can understand, there have been various cooling issues with different X1950 models, correct?  So, would y'all mind telling me how effective the cooling setup appears to be on mine (specifically, is there anything that I should be aware of that I might not have noticed?):






Unless I'm mistaken, the copper sinks are more effective than aluminum (albeit heavier), correct?  I also noticed, compared to various other pics I've seen of other models, the fan seems to be closer to the GPU, instead of at the tail of the card - better, right?

Biggest reason I ask, is that (as I've redundantly stated) I have no hardware monitoring for the card, and just trying to gauge how it + the whole system is running.  SpeedFan only reported an average ambient temp increase of 2-3C since installing the card (ambient within the case temps to run 39-43C).  I get the feeling that this card doesn't get too toasty, but still not sure.

Although, I know that the stock cooler setups tend to be sub-par, if I ever attempted to OC this particular model, the stock cooler would be rather inadequate, per any amount of OCing, right?


----------



## insider (Jul 26, 2007)

That's the first time I've seen a Built by ATI X1950 Pro card based on the newer PCB design, the board there seems to use better caps (and more of them) than the cheap Sapphire X1950GT/Pro cards based on the newer PCB design.  All 4 core caps for the GPU are solid caps compared with only 2/4 for my Sapphire card etc.

IMO that card could potentially overclock like hell after beefing up the cooling plus a volt mod, my 1950GT card does 708Mhz max on core with my current aircooling, with that BB-ATI card I reckon it's got even more potential!


----------



## imperialreign (Jul 26, 2007)

yeah, I did notice that the layout of the components looks entirelly different than various other models I've seen pics of.  Plus, unlike most other models I've seen, the fan is nearly ontop of the GPU, instead of being placed near the tail of the card.  Both front and back of the card, there's some kind of contact pad between the coolers and the chips, diodes and otherwise, and it's a full contact, too.  Honestly, I thought the stock spec of 575/693 to be rather conservative - especially when compared to the clocks of other models.

But, funny as it is, from what research I've done on this card, even though the model I have came in an ATI Radeon X1950 PRO box, and the vendor ID listed in the GPU BIOS is for ATI - the box is printed "Distributed by VisionTek", "A VisionTek product . . ." and "visit www.visiontek.com/ATI for current warranty statements and conditions" instead of directing me straight to ATI.  Plus, I've noticed that the VisionTek X1950 PRO XGE looks exactly like my ATI build, but with a different sticker on the cooler and the fan (I did also see a couple of sites that pictured the VisionTek XGE with the same stickers as mine), and comparing specs between the two cards (via ATI.com and VisionTek.com) they're both exactly the same.

So . . . It's got me wondering . . . is this an ATI, or a VisionTek?  Or is it a built by ATI for VisionTek to be distributed by VisionTek for ATI?   

Anyhow . . . according to RaBit, there's a hex address for at least one LM63 on the card, I haven't pulled the cooler off the GPU to verify that, but I'm wondering if external hardware monitoring for the card is switched off in the BIOS.  Not really sure, though.


----------



## insider (Jul 26, 2007)

You can try flashing the following bios (*backup your current bios first!*) attached below, it's from a Sapphire X1950 Pro 256MB card based on the newer revision PCB.

Note you do this at your own risk, make sure you know how to blind flash the card back to default bios should anything go wrong!

ATI don't manufacture the cards themselves, the ATI branded cards are usually manufactured by the likes of Sapphire/VisionTek etc.


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## Widjaja (Jul 26, 2007)

P O S
Would have tried to get him to buy it but your'e in the US.
He is a money waster, he just bought a Mitsi FTO version R which he had to spend another $880 to service and remap.
Suppose it goes hard for a tiptronic N/A.

He should have bought a 200SX like me. . . .

Tkpenalty
Anyway he's the one who had Carbon in the first place.

Damn it got blurry!
Had sort of this doubled up effect to it.

It was worse with most wanted.
He won't even play the game and says it's crap and buggy and is correct on the latter.

Al though I'm having a stuttering issue with NFSMW on my rig at the moment with all settings at max.

I'm not too sure if it's the card or the CPU at the moment.
Just fixed a temp problem with it as the idiot who sold me the CPU and H/S had placed the fan around the wrong way so the temps were getting to the mid 50's at stock speed!

With the fan around the right way it never goes over 38deg.

He has COH but he won't play it. . . . . .I wonder why?


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## imperialreign (Jul 26, 2007)

thanks, I'll check that out






. . . actually, that's an idea . . .

If I could extract the BIOS from this GPU with ATiFlash, is there anyone here who'd be curious enough to take a look at the file and see what's up with it?

I'm more willing to experiment that route first, if possible.


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## p_o_s_pc (Jul 26, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> P O S
> Would have tried to get him to buy it but your'e in the US.
> He is a money waster, he just bought a Mitsi FTO version R which he had to spend another $880 to service and remap.
> Suppose it goes hard for a tiptronic N/A.
> ...



Are you talking about NFSC on my rig or your friends?


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Jul 26, 2007)

Wile E said:


> When you go to buy a psu, If you can swing it, you can't go wrong with a Corsair HX520 or 620.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...=2010320058+50001459&name=Corsair+Memory,+Inc.
> 
> The 520 has 40A on the 12v, and the 620 has 50A.



I was looking at this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817233002
4 12v@18a= 72a


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## Widjaja (Jul 26, 2007)

On my friends

His rig:-
Pentuim D 945 3.4Ghz
2Gig dual channel 667mhz Kingston I think
7600GT


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## p_o_s_pc (Jul 26, 2007)

I think mine looks good
my rig 
AMD Athlon 64 x2 @2.6ghz 
1gig dual channel DDR2 800@9xx@4-4-4-5
7900GS 
I wonder how many more FPS i would get if i added another gig.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 26, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> On my friends
> 
> His rig:-
> Pentuim D 945 3.4Ghz
> ...



Sell CPU and GPU, Pentium D is more expensive than a E2140 fyi. The 7600GT however, is one of the factors. It may be the drivers though, send us some scrennies.


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## tkpenalty (Jul 26, 2007)

Back on topic... seems like new drivers to more harm than good for the X1950PRO, except it has stopped the random crashes in NFS:C from occuring.


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## insider (Jul 26, 2007)

Yep typical ATI, they seem to be deliberately decreasing the performance of the last generation of cards over time with every driver, to make the newer POS cards look better?

Or maybe this is an unattended side effect of trying to squeeze every inch of performance out of the dire X2600XT and the X2900XT cards.

Either way they ain't gonna sell much new hardware until R700 is out, it'll not only have to be significantly better than the X1900/X1950 series but also the new nVidia cards.


----------



## Darknova (Jul 26, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Back on topic... seems like new drivers to more harm than good for the X1950PRO, except it has stopped the random crashes in NFS:C from occuring.




I put the 7.7 drivers on and saw a noticeable decrease in performance on my 1950XT from 6.12. So i tried the 7.6 drivers and performance now is awesome


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## imperialreign (Jul 26, 2007)

I noticed a hit with the 7.7, too, mostly in Q4, and a decrease in visual quality with Doom3 (not like I care much during the middle of a fragfest, ha!).

Just been too lazy to throw 7.6 back on . . .


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## Widjaja (Jul 27, 2007)

Ahh yes the crashes in NFSC
Do they happen when selecting cars and loading up a race?

Those are my trouble spots on the game.

Happens with my mates rig with a 7600GT

What's better stutters in gameplay or stopping the crashes?
I'd choose the random crashes.

Tkpenalty:-
I'm not going to tell him that!
I will hear no end of his bragging.

Right now his bragging point is how much HDD space he has and how much he has used.

x3 320GB HDD

He's used over half of that with videos and music.
Most of them are doubles!

But I'll keep that in mind just incase I decide to tell him.

Other banter:-
Can't believe my bro had to OC his C2D E660 2.4Ghz to 2.9Ghz to keep up with his 8800GTX on vista ultimate.

Gaming is pretty smooth for him now
He tends to play FSX alot.
Why? there are no guns and you fly through the bulidings!
LOL


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 27, 2007)

lol.............. 320x3? Thats nothing to brag about, unless he had Raid 1+0....


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 27, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> I noticed a hit with the 7.7, too, mostly in Q4, and a decrease in visual quality with Doom3 (not like I care much during the middle of a fragfest, ha!).
> 
> Just been too lazy to throw 7.6 back on . . .



Yeah... the bump mapping looks like crap in NFS:C after 7.7...


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Jul 27, 2007)

I want to go C2D and ATI HD 2900xt


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## Darknova (Jul 27, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Yeah... the bump mapping looks like crap in NFS:C after 7.7...



I think they were trying so hard to increase performance in DX10 that they inadvertantly decreased performance on all their DX9 cards.

Anyone who said they did it purposely just remember, they aren't nVidia


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Jul 27, 2007)

I put on the 1xx force ware and my Aqua mark score went down 300 points that is even after running it many times and overclocking.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 27, 2007)

haha.... this is so offtopic 

Anyway went back to 7.6 Drivers... no more Floating point HDR artifacts (whole screen goes brightish). w00t. Game crashes occured rarely again... turning off the music is the remedy. I've had no luck overclocking my X1950PRO


----------



## Widjaja (Jul 27, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> lol.............. 320x3? Thats nothing to brag about, unless he had Raid 1+0....



He doesn't even know what RAID is or the benefits of it.

Anyway anyone here play need for speed most wanted still?
I've been playing it and have noticed with 'over bright' (HDR) setting on, some of the the green highway signs flicker a bright yellowish colour when driving towards them.
When you get close enough to them it disappears.

Does it with all drivers I've used 7.1-7.6.

Stuttering has gone down with all settings high but not as bad.
Especially in areas with alot of trees and shadows, it starts to chug and I think my frames drop to around 45 in those areas with res at 1024 X 768.
Otherwise frames fluctuate from 55-70 fps but mainly at 60.
It's noticable when the frames drop!


----------



## Widjaja (Jul 27, 2007)

*Anyone play Race Driver 3?*

Question for anyone who plays racedriver 3

If I lock the frames should they always stay at those frames rates regardless of how many cars appear in the replays?

Everytime there are many cars coming into view the frames start dropping even though I have locked them at 60fps.

And it's pretty noticable.


----------



## Darknova (Jul 27, 2007)

I've been playing Most Wanted, and with the 7.7 drivers the performance was pitiful, my 7600GT performed better.

Haven't tried it out with the 7.6 drivers though. Will let you know when I do.


----------



## Autiem Sel (Jul 27, 2007)

Got my HIS x1950 agp 512mb card in January... suffered months of random crashes thinking other components were at fault, until I found out that the card was way overclocked. It's a v1 card, the bios clocks are 622/743, using atitraytools it runs stably at 608/783 (raised the mem clock towards the v2 setting of 770 and beyond with no bad effects). Having no problems with the 7.7 drivers too 

Noticed unchecking 'Z Mask Enable' dropped points in the att benchmark, so I keep it enabled, contrary to the advice at tweakguides.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 27, 2007)

Dont use the ATT benchmark... use 3D Mark 05 or 6. There's a lot of dust from what i can see inside the plastic shroud. Best if you use the 7.6 Drivers.



Darknova said:


> I've been playing Most Wanted, and with the 7.7 drivers the performance was pitiful, my 7600GT performed better.
> 
> Haven't tried it out with the 7.6 drivers though. Will let you know when I do.



Yeah 7.7 Drivers SUCK. Dont know what amd did but they are certainly more stable. 7.6 Driver's btw are the fastest for the X1950 series.


----------



## imperialreign (Jul 27, 2007)

> There's a lot of dust from what i can see inside the plastic shroud.




dust bunnies - IN UR PC SOKIN UP TEH COLD!!!11!!


----------



## Darknova (Jul 27, 2007)

I'll get some pics up for you guys tomorrow or sunday once all my new stuff has arrived


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## Widjaja (Jul 28, 2007)

Darknova said:


> I've been playing Most Wanted, and with the 7.7 drivers the performance was pitiful, my 7600GT performed better.
> 
> Haven't tried it out with the 7.6 drivers though. Will let you know when I do.



How Ironic my 7600GS played it better than my X1950pro and I'm using 7.6 drivers at the moment.

I'll be doing some tests of my own.
I'm going to be trying out my brothers old Sapphire X800pro and see how NFSMW plays.
Although I don't thinkyou can use motion blur with X800pros being shader v2.0.

Wierd BIOS overclocking a GPU.

Never heard of that.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 28, 2007)

NFS:MW uses INT HRD and Motion blur has nothing to do with Pixel shader standards.


----------



## mitsirfishi (Jul 28, 2007)

ive noticed sinse i am running vista i know errrr gota it from a torrent and activated and that and compaired to my stripped out version of xp it isnt killing my fps hardy in testdrive unlimited which at 1440x900 and 2AA and high settings 45 fps  general


----------



## Autiem Sel (Jul 28, 2007)

Cheers for the tips, ahll be on the tweak tonight and let yous know how I get on.


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## Autiem Sel (Jul 29, 2007)

Using 3Dmark06 I got identical scores for the 7.6 and 7.7 drivers...

7.6 : score 4160, sm2 1805, hdr 2126, cpu 890
7.7 : score 4160, sm2 1800, hdr 2130, cpu 890

Both cpu tests ran at less than 1fps and its score is relatively low, is my P4 3ghz crippling the performance of my card?


----------



## TonyStark (Jul 29, 2007)

Probably.

I'd say bump the CPU to 3.2GHz, then test 3DM06, then bump it up to 3.4GHz and test again. Check if the SM2.0 and SM3.0 scores increase. If they do, then there was a CPU bottleneck @ 3.0GHz. 

Make sure you have good cooling. Those netburst cores get pretty hot.


----------



## imperialreign (Jul 29, 2007)

> Both cpu tests ran at less than 1fps and its score is relatively low, is my P4 3ghz crippling the performance of my card?



yeah, I'd have to say so - I'm in the same boat with you on that, my Pentium4 HT 3.06GHz (524 Prescott) really hampers my scores with 3DM06, too, and I can't go any faster with it throught the BIOS (I'm thinkin I'm gonna try Clockgen soon) - that, and my mobo tops out at 233MHz on the mem clocks , even though the DDR I have supports much faster - oh, well, I needed the new PC - now I just got to save for a new mobo/CPU.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Jul 29, 2007)

I get about 1000 points higher when i overclock my CPU does that mean it is a bottle neck?


----------



## TonyStark (Jul 29, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> I get about 1000 points higher when i overclock my CPU does that mean it is a bottle neck?




If overclocking your CPU increases the SM2.0 score and SM3.0 score in 3DM06 -- which are based on the frame rates of the Graphics Tests -- then yes, there was a bottleneck before overclocking.

Otherwise, no, there was no CPU bottleneck despite the overall score going up.


----------



## imperialreign (Jul 29, 2007)

insider said:


> You can try flashing the following bios (*backup your current bios first!*) attached below, it's from a Sapphire X1950 Pro 256MB card based on the newer revision PCB.
> 
> Note you do this at your own risk, make sure you know how to blind flash the card back to default bios should anything go wrong!
> 
> ATI don't manufacture the cards themselves, the ATI branded cards are usually manufactured by the likes of Sapphire/VisionTek etc.



Alright . . . I went and flashed my GPU BIOS - had to use the force parameter, as ATiFlash threw an error over the vendor ID.  Anyhow - my X1950 PRO will run on your Sapphire BIOS, and stable at those clock speeds . . . but, I still had no hardware monitoring, even after re-installing ATiTool, RivaTuner and ATi Tray Tools.  Overdrive was also not supported in CCC - even though RaBit reported back that OD was enabled.  Like I mentioned, my bbATI ran stable with the SAP BIOS, but without the hardware monitoring, I just went and flashed the stock BIOS back .

Man . . . this has really got me stumped!


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 29, 2007)

Very odd... Dont know why it wouldnt have hardware monitoring. Anyway, guys use the 7.8 Drivers, they improve on 7.6 Drivers a lot.


----------



## Autiem Sel (Jul 29, 2007)

Thanks Tony, oc'd my cpu and got better results :

3DMark Score	4483 3DMarks
SM 2.0 Score	1912 Marks
SM 3.0 Score	2235 Marks
CPU Score	1016 Marks

So it seems there was cpu bottlenecking as the SM scores went up by 100. 
Ranked #2 in the similar system comparison so I'm very happy with the results.

I'll try the 7.8 drivers and see if the scores improve. (And I'll scrub my shroud til it sparkles)


----------



## binormalkilla (Jul 29, 2007)

Well I sold the X1950 Pros and got an HIS 2900XT 1Gb.  It's NICE! 
3dmark with my E6600 at 3 GHz, stock clocks on the card.


----------



## imperialreign (Jul 29, 2007)

> Very odd... Dont know why it wouldnt have hardware monitoring. Anyway, guys use the 7.8 Drivers, they improve on 7.6 Drivers a lot.



yeah, I don't understand why I wouldn't have hardware monitoring after flashing an enabled BIOS   Anyhow, I used RaBit to change the fan/temp table to something a little more . . . to my liking, re-saved my bios and reflashed the card with that.  According to RaBit, it took . . . but I haven't been able to push the card hard enough to hear the changes yet.

Oh, and I tried!  Lord I tried!  Out of boredom, I went ahead an OC the card using ATiTool - stock was 575/688; squeezed out a stable 601/749.  By 3M06 scores at default settings, I went from a score of 3370 to 3459.  Then, I let 3M06 run all of it's tests on repeat for like 6 hours this morning while I was asleep - still running when I woke up.  No visual anomalies, etc.  SpeedFan temps are still where they were before, ambient only went up about 2C.  Still, though, I'm sure that card is getting hot (still wish I knew exactly how hot!), but I defi don't hear the fan.  I don't think I'll try pushing any more out of it without monitoring, though.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 29, 2007)

I better make a HD2900XT Siggy.... waait guys its coming!!


----------



## Darknova (Jul 29, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Very odd... Dont know why it wouldnt have hardware monitoring. Anyway, guys use the 7.8 Drivers, they improve on 7.6 Drivers a lot.



7.8? I can't find 7.8 on the AMD site....still lists 7.7 as the latest.

EDIT: Oops, just noticed the New post


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 30, 2007)

http://www.overclockersclub.com/vimages/sapphire1950pro/3.jpg 

See that Aluminium heatsink guys? The X1950PROs now have THAT + the X1950GT Stock cooler (better than X1950PRO stock cooler). So yeah go for sapphire if you have to go cheap. It will simplify installation by a lot as well.


----------



## erocker (Jul 30, 2007)

Wierd, no one sells my x1950 pro anymore?  All I can find is the lower clock non-vivo version.  What gives with that?


----------



## imperialreign (Jul 30, 2007)

> See that Aluminium heatsink guys? The X1950PROs now have THAT + the X1950GT Stock cooler (better than X1950PRO stock cooler). So yeah go for sapphire if you have to go cheap. It will simplify installation by a lot as well.




more than likely I'll pick one up after I upgrade to a crossfire capable mobo.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 30, 2007)

Signatures ready guys.... Tried to keep it simple; how AMD likes it.

I've cleaned the front page up and I'll soon have more articles up.


----------



## imperialreign (Jul 30, 2007)

that sig looks decent, man


doubling back, here . . .




> more than likely I'll pick one up after I upgrade to a crossfire capable mobo.




opinions!!   =>  would it be a better idea to upgrade my mobo first, possibly to something I "MIGHT" be able to OC this <insert explative here> Penitum4 with until I can afford a new proc - or would it be best to sit on it until I can do both the proc and mobo at the same time?


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Jul 31, 2007)

the sig looks good but what about the x1950 owners you should make one with the 1950 and the hd2000.I know you have a 1950 already but maybe a new one.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 31, 2007)

Thing is forget about crossfire for anything other than the HD2900XT. Its not economical to crossfire since its cheaper to have a single card that performs faster. Thats unless you already have something like an X1950PRO. Oh yeah check the first page P O S PC. If you have the card, you can automaticlaly use the siggy. 









 < Can someone redo this for me?

















Oh yeah and the popular one






GRAB THE SIGGY's WHILE THEY ARE VALID. Try to link it.


----------



## imperialreign (Jul 31, 2007)

> < Can someone redo this for me?



I might, if no one's taken up with it by the end of the week - I won't have the spare time until the weekend . . . I was thinkin about doin one based off of my card design for personal use, seeing as how I found a good amount of publicity shots of this card (although of a Diamond Media -they look exactly the same), so . . .



> Thing is forget about crossfire for anything other than the HD2900XT




the 2900s perform that much better, huh?  _<edit: that was a stoopid question, huh?!!>_  Is it possible to xfire a 1950 with a 2900, or no go on that?  Reason being, if I do up- the mobo, I was thinking of tacking on a SAP 1950 in the near future (prob before the end of the year), but if she'll work with a 2900 instead . . .

. . . then later scrap the 1950 I currently have for another 2x00 card.



_edit:  had time while downloading files to get that sig re-done, made the ATi logo a little more legible (unless . . . did you want it transparent?).  I've attached it, let me know if it's alright._


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## tkpenalty (Aug 1, 2007)

Looks good, but kill that font though... Arial = GAY. Verdana please.


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## Wile E (Aug 1, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Looks good, but kill that font though... Arial = GAY. Verdana please.


I like Arial.


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## imperialreign (Aug 1, 2007)

verdana:












**Bored as crap right now . . . messin with the clocks on the 1950 - 600/749 started gettin squirelly - maybe to do with the 7.8b drivers.  Seems to be runnin stable at 600/722 AON.

Curious - those with the newer design cards, where did ATi slap the LM63 on the board?  Was thinking of popping the fansink off to look for it - nother question, the contacts on the sinks that sit between the components and the cooler, what's that made out of?  Would one need to apply thermal before installing the cooler again?  I'm thinkin of taking a closer look at various things on the card this weekend (need some spare time projects - like finally getting around to flashing the mobo BIOS wi -

 600/722 no-go . . . and at 600/749 it ran stable in 3DM06 for 6 hrs.   

anyone else having issues running OC with 7.8b?


----------



## Darknova (Aug 2, 2007)

Piccies


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## tkpenalty (Aug 2, 2007)

Holy shit that looks hectic . I wonder why there are those crossfire bridge connectors there... the red sticker looks mad though.

Do you have a clearer pic of it?


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## Darknova (Aug 2, 2007)

Well currently my PC is in a temporary state, just took some pics to prove I had the card lol.

Tomorrow I'll be tidying it up once I've reinstalled XP. And then I'll take some much better pics


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## insider (Aug 3, 2007)

Damn those images hurt my eyes, use a better digital camera!


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## tkpenalty (Aug 3, 2007)

I love that red sticker . Anyway Darknova, remove the plastic shroud and attach a 80mm fan instead... that turns the accelero into a monster cooler. Best if you get those half thickness 80mm fans though.


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## p_o_s_pc (Aug 3, 2007)

I am wanting to get a new video card. I don't want to keep the 7900GS in my gaming rig. So i was wanting to know what card you would recommend i want an ATI and I'm not going to vista anytime soon and when i do i will get a new mobo with crossfire or SLI but for now (short on cash) i want to keep my mobo i have now and i want to know if a HD2600xt 256mb or a x1950GT 256mb would be better if none of them than what one for around $100-120 (US) would be best?


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## p_o_s_pc (Aug 3, 2007)

insider said:


> Damn those images hurt my eyes, use a better digital camera!



I agree with you.  i can't believe i just agreed with someone.


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## tkpenalty (Aug 3, 2007)

POS, just keep your 7900GS... save up for something more worth it like a HD2900XT...


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## p_o_s_pc (Aug 3, 2007)

Thank you for your input.


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## Darknova (Aug 3, 2007)

Again, it was only a quick picture to show that I have a 1950. It was taken one handed, with my phone in the dark (my phone sucks taking pics with the flash, other wise it's really good quality).

No need for another fan TK, since I replaced the thermal goop with AS5 it doesn't break 60'C under load


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## tkpenalty (Aug 3, 2007)

Wow... thats good man.


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## imperialreign (Aug 4, 2007)

wow, board has been kinda . . . dead recently . . . figured I'd kick some life back into it 

hey, would anyone with a newer PCB design x1950 mind taking a pic of the temp diode location on the board - I'd like to be able to try and 'see' if mine does have one or not - I wonder, though, if it doesn't - anyone recon it would be possible to solder one into the empty slot; at least, do you think it would be recognized by the GPU if I added one to the board where it's supposed to be?


asides, from that - curious, how many people still playing Doom3/Quake4?


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## tkpenalty (Aug 5, 2007)

Weird imprerialreign... request and RMA if possible.


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## imperialreign (Aug 5, 2007)

> Weird imprerialreign... request and RMA if possible.



I guess I could ask ATi on it . . . I asked them before about the Overdrive, but was told the only cards that support Overdrive were the XT* models.  They didn't answer me on the hardware monitoring . . .


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## grunt_408 (Aug 5, 2007)

LOL


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## grunt_408 (Aug 5, 2007)

LOOK


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## grunt_408 (Aug 5, 2007)

*I Own HIS X1950 Pro Sweet card*






[/IMG]System Specs
P4 3.0 GHz CPU
2 GB DDR2 RAM 
Gigabyte Board
AGP HIS X1959 Pro ICE Q 3 Turbo edition

I Have noticed That with some of the more demanding games I am running into A bottleneck with my CPU But my mobo only has an 800 MHz FSB What can some one recomend in the way of a CPU Upgrade? Sorry for the tripple post but here is a pic of the card.


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## Wile E (Aug 5, 2007)

What model of Gigabyte board do you have?

And you can delete your other posts by hitting the edit button. It shows up as one of the options.


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## grunt_408 (Aug 5, 2007)

The Highest I can go with the 800 FSB is a Intel Core 2 Duo E4500, 2.2 GHz Clock Speed, FSB 800MHz, 2MB L2 Cache. Would I still have issues with bottlenecking? I am limited with options as I have AGP Card.


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## grunt_408 (Aug 5, 2007)

Motherboard is a GA-VM800PMC rev 1.0


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## tkpenalty (Aug 5, 2007)

what motherboard do you have? It looks like a VIA motherboard, so probably you can upgrade to a Core 2 Duo E4400/E4500. 

I know what PSU you have btw , its enough just to let you know, usicase 500/550W right?


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## grunt_408 (Aug 5, 2007)

Thermaltake 470W PSU


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## tkpenalty (Aug 5, 2007)

Craigleberry... stop double posting... You can upgrade to a core 2 duo then. Get something like a E4500, its good. It wont bottleneck for sure though. I can tell you that. Even a E2140 is enough.


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## grunt_408 (Aug 5, 2007)

Cheers for that. 
How much of an improvment would I get?
Sorry for the double post


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## Wile E (Aug 5, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Motherboard is a GA-VM800PMC rev 1.0


Your mobo will take up to an E6420, if you update your BIOS, so it can actually do 1066 FSB, at least on the lower Core2 models.

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/...rboard&ProductID=2471&ProductName=GA-VM800PMC


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## tkpenalty (Aug 5, 2007)

^Beat me to it... Craigleberry, it will blow your Pentium 4 away... like by Four times. Four times faster statistically. Its worth the upgrade anyway, Core 2s are dirt cheap these days becuase of the pricewar going on between AMD and Intel. Yes, if possible go for the E6420. But E4500 or E2140 if you must, VIA/Gigabyte sorta underestimated what their chipsets could do.


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## Wile E (Aug 5, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> ^Beat me to it... Craigleberry, it will blow your Pentium 4 away... like by Four times. Four times faster statistically. Its worth the upgrade anyway, Core 2s are dirt cheap these days becuase of the pricewar going on between AMD and Intel. Yes, if possible go for the E6420. But E4500 or E2140 if you must, VIA/Gigabyte sorta underestimated what their chipsets could do.


With that board, I'd probably go for the E4500, to get that 10x multi, then run the fsb up to 266(since we know it does it), and have myself a 2.66GHz Core 2 on the cheap.


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## grunt_408 (Aug 5, 2007)

Thanks for that. So it still runs stable overclocked to a 2.66 GHz


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## Grings (Aug 5, 2007)

Wile E said:


> With that board, I'd probably go for the E4500, to get that 10x multi, then run the fsb up to 266(since we know it does it), and have myself a 2.66GHz Core 2 on the cheap.



e4500 is an 11x multi, the e4400 has a 10x


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## tkpenalty (Aug 5, 2007)

Either way, dont push it past 2.8Ghz... after that it will need Voltage. E4500's stock clockspeed is already fast enough so I wouldnt overclock.


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## Wile E (Aug 6, 2007)

Grings said:


> e4500 is an 11x multi, the e4400 has a 10x


Yep, you're right. I confused it with the 4400


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## Widjaja (Aug 6, 2007)

Craigleberry
What makes you think the CPU is causing the bottleneck?
What are the signs your'e getting which is telling you that?

Besides that I've never heard of a 775 agp board unless it was one of those ASROCK dual VSTA jobs.


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## Wile E (Aug 6, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> Craigleberry
> What makes you think the CPU is causing the bottleneck?
> What are the signs your'e getting which is telling you that?
> 
> Besides that I've never heard of a 775 agp board unless it was one of those ASROCK dual VSTA jobs.


Some Core 2's are on the CPU support list for his board. And he has a p4 3GHz, of course it's a bottleneck. lol


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## Widjaja (Aug 6, 2007)

Yeah but I want to know what signs he's getting which is telling him it's the CPU.

Are then frames in benchtests too low?

Or is it something when he's playing games?


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## p_o_s_pc (Aug 6, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> Craigleberry
> What makes you think the CPU is causing the bottleneck?
> What are the signs your'e getting which is telling you that?
> 
> Besides that I've never heard of a 775 agp board unless it was one of those ASROCK dual VSTA jobs.



I have seen many 775 boards with AGP. Go to newegg and tigerdirect and look.


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## grunt_408 (Aug 6, 2007)

Yep there are a few boards not many but they do exist Made by Asrock Asus and Gigabyte. I Got the gigabyte board when my Asrock died as it Had support for duel core and core2 duo.
I am aware of the bottleneck because of the fact that I have 90-100 percent usage on the CPU Moniter Whilst playing games like Colin Mcrae dirt with the settings turned up High. It also chunks whilst the meter says 100 percent so I put it down to the fact that I have a P4 3.06 GHz with 1MB L2-cache with a 533 MHz FSB!  P.S I can watch my CPU and RAM usage on my Logitech G15 LCD.


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## p_o_s_pc (Aug 6, 2007)

Just to show you all that i did have a His X1950pro here is a pic.





mmmmm so sexy. damn that is hot show n all the wires.


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## imperialreign (Aug 6, 2007)

curious, CB . . . do you know your specific processor number?  There are only a small handful of the P4's clocked at 3.06G, and most of 'em seem to operate like an ADHD kid. 

My P4 is  the 524 proc. clocked at 3.06G, also, and she'll buggar up in certain games and not others . . . plus, other services running in the background seem to do their fair share of fighting for resources, and can bring some programs to a halt, even though they're only pulling <10% CPU usage at a time (antivirus/spyware software seems, IMO, to be the worst culprits - especially the more mainstream programs, McAfee, PC-Cillin, etc.) - you might have to go through task manager and look for oddities, any services whose CPU usage is jumping all over the place.

If your P4 is HT enabled, I'd honestly recommend leaving it on - XP SP2 runs a lot better multithreaded.





POS - that's a big case, man - full tower?  and is that a HIPER PSU I see there?


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## grunt_408 (Aug 6, 2007)

Thats the number 524. I am fairly certain that it is the CPU thats the culprit.


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## grunt_408 (Aug 6, 2007)

That photo looks a little like my set up. I also need to spend a little time on cable managment lol.


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## p_o_s_pc (Aug 6, 2007)

> POS - that's a big case, man - full tower?  and is that a HIPER PSU I see there?



Yes that is a Hiper PSU 580w Type-R the case is the biggest MID-tower i could find at the time i didn't have room for a full tower.


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## Widjaja (Aug 6, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> Just to show you all that i did have a His X1950pro here is a pic.
> mmmmm so sexy. damn that is hot show n all the wires.



Indeed 
Nice and tidy.

My system is jumbled up compared to that.
Took a quick snap shot of it a couple of minutes ago.





Anyway.
Does anyone know of a CPU monitoring OSD program?
Or a CPU usage logger?


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 6, 2007)

I wouldn't doubt it at all - I'm in the same boat 

Is yours and your mobo HT enabled then?  If so, there should be an option for it in BIOS, I'd make sure to have it on.  Your mobo can defi handle the 524 FSB.

and like I mentioned, you might want to run through all your running programs when you're in-game.  There have been some games where I've had to shut down some services now and then.  If your BIOS allows it, you might want to try and tweak the CPU clocks to see if that helps things out

And I'd recommend a real dual core proc, the E4500 or E4400.




> Does anyone know of a CPU monitoring OSD program?
> Or a CPU usage logger?




not off the top of my head . . . I can recommend one for RAM usage . . .


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 6, 2007)

[/IMG]




Spaghetti incident


----------



## Wile E (Aug 6, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Spaghetti incident


lol. GnR


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 6, 2007)

That wasnt a bad album that


----------



## Wile E (Aug 6, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> That wasnt a bad album that


Not bad at all, but not the greatest.

I'm just laughing because I'm old enough to have caught the reference.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 6, 2007)

Why don't you have a back fan?Is it a 80mm or a 120mm fan? (could be a 92mm not sure)


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 6, 2007)

true!

sometime . . . somewhere . . . someday, we might see this up-n-coming GnR album . . . *IF* it's ever released 

prob will suck, though, without Slash

Greatest Hits was their best album to date


----------



## Wile E (Aug 6, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> Greatest Hits was their best album to date


lol Agreed.

And to further show my age, nice Dark Crystal avatar. lol


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 6, 2007)

> And to further show my age, nice Dark Crystal avatar. lol



that movie rocked, man!  IMO, second best from the 80's - 1st was The Goonies - ATW!!


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 6, 2007)

I know it suck to be getting old Wile E . The Rear is 120mm I have added that to my shopping list along with the cpu and a nice cooler for that aswell. When all finished I will post photo.
Most of their stuff still is good value.GNR


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 6, 2007)

good luck with the rig, man - hope you can get it somewhat manageable until your new toys show up


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## tkpenalty (Aug 6, 2007)

Hmm... anyway Craig. Heres a list of what you gotta do:
1. CPU Upgrade
Yes... if upgrading the processor means better framerates... then why not upgrade? Its cheap and the proccy puts out low heat anyway.
2. Case fans. You NEED them. Grab two 120mm fans, one for front, one for rear
3. Cable management. Use my one as a guide... look at my siggy. 

Hope it turns out great man


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## grunt_408 (Aug 6, 2007)

Nice Rig tkpenalty.


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## tkpenalty (Aug 8, 2007)

Okay, now what drivers are everyone using? I am using 7.8s


----------



## TonyStark (Aug 8, 2007)

Some good news for HD2900XT owners looking for aftermarket air cooling. The Thermalright HR-03 / R600 will be released mid-August.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 8, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> I wouldn't doubt it at all - I'm in the same boat
> 
> Is yours and your mobo HT enabled then?  If so, there should be an option for it in BIOS, I'd make sure to have it on.  Your mobo can defi handle the 524 FSB.
> 
> ...



hell i think he would be better with a pentium D  or a E2140 would be better if needed to be cheap.


----------



## Darknova (Aug 8, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Okay, now what drivers are everyone using? I am using 7.8s



I'm using 7.6. I'm afraid that I just don't trust the BETA drivers lol.


----------



## Wile E (Aug 8, 2007)

I'm on 7.8s. Seem to be working great so far.


----------



## Darknova (Aug 8, 2007)

Wile E said:


> I'm on 7.8s. Seem to be working great so far.



Is there a noticable performance increase over 7.6?


----------



## Wile E (Aug 8, 2007)

Darknova said:


> Is there a noticable performance increase over 7.6?


I don't know exactly, I never compared 7.6 and 7.7s, but there's a noticeable difference over 7.7s.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 8, 2007)

Duh... 7.7s went backwards... 7.8s are better, the image quality...... just keeps getting better. 

Oh yeah also... if anyone happens to want to buy a HD2900XT. Go for the Gigabyte... the stock cooler works heaps better because it has an extra heatpipe.


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 8, 2007)

I am using 7.7 so according to Gameshadow.


----------



## Darknova (Aug 8, 2007)

Hey tk, is there any performance increase over 7.6?


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 8, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> hell i think he would be better with a pentium D  or a E2140 would be better if needed to be cheap.



I do not want to go with a Elcheapo CPU this time thanks.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 8, 2007)

E2140 is cheaper than Pentium D 

Darknova, you should be using this signature under...


----------



## Darknova (Aug 8, 2007)

Should, except I HATE that cooler....it looks ugly...my cards pretty ^_^


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 8, 2007)

I have ordered a E4400.
and 2 120mm Case fans to go with the 3 80mm that are in my sidewinder case.
So hopefully it will not get hot!


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 8, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> I do not want to go with a Elcheapo CPU this time thanks.



All i am saying is if you wanted a cheap dual core for overclocking the E2140 would be better than the P4 and the Pd


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 8, 2007)

Thanks mate I agree wit ya. I am just kicking myself for not merging over to pci e when I got my x1950 that way I wouldnt have such a limited selection of motherboards and RAM Speed.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 8, 2007)

Nah man, ur RAM is fine. However the CPU is not. Thats all you need to fix up to get a fast computer. Even an E2140 will blow your P4 away.


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 8, 2007)

Cheers tk.. I know that but what happens when I want to go to dx10? 
I cannot use ddr2 667 or 800 and cannot go with a 1066 FSB and I dare say that the x1950 will prolly be one of the last (decent) AGP cards made. I guess that I will get to have more fun building another in the not so distant future!


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## tkpenalty (Aug 8, 2007)

If you have the money now.... why not just build a new system


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 8, 2007)

I hear that . . . kinda pricey, though 

lol, I'd be happy to get away from that 524, too - feelin' your pain on that CB!


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 9, 2007)

I don't think there will be any DX10 on AGP. I almost went s-939 and not AM2 and the board was DDR and AGP but i waited and got DDR2 and PCI-E.That would have been the best thing to do.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 9, 2007)

There is a HD2600XT by HIS for AGP thats expected to come out soon. However its a huge downgrade from the X1950PRO.


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 9, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> There is a HD2600XT by HIS for AGP thats expected to come out soon. However its a huge downgrade from the X1950PRO.


Exactly Ati and Nvidia aint going to be supporting AGP For much longer. I am a prime example of what happens when you rush into things lol


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 9, 2007)

you wouldn't want windows XP SP2 OEM my gigabyte mobo and x2 4600+ would you?...
O wait didn't u say you ordered a C2D? If you did than i am sure you don't want my AMD.


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 9, 2007)

AGP was the -ish when it first came out, though - much faster than standard PCI . . . until PCIe rolled out, then AGP got served . . .


. . . although, some might still argue otherwise . . .


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 9, 2007)

I have never used AGP so i can't tell you if PCI-E is much better than not.


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 9, 2007)

I missed out on the AGP craze, too - my old (antique) PC was running a VooDoo3 PCI, which is somewhere in my room . . . still works, though, and a damn good card at that.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 9, 2007)

My video card that was in my old rig was a Geforce MX4000(pci) i had it overclocked to 450 on the core that card kicked some azz but it started to smoke one day so it is gone.


----------



## Wile E (Aug 9, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> AGP was the -ish when it first came out, though - much faster than standard PCI . . . until PCIe rolled out, then AGP got served . . .
> 
> 
> . . . although, some might still argue otherwise . . .


lol. Time to show the age again. I remember the PCI to AGP transition, too. I went from a P1 75Mhz with a PCI card (don't remember which one), to a PII 233 and an AGP card(again, don't remember).


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 9, 2007)

I wish i had a HD2900XT...


----------



## kebabs (Aug 9, 2007)

Um, Any Possible chance I can join the Clubhouse? ?

I have a HD 2900 XT.


----------



## hat (Aug 9, 2007)

I wish I had one too. Anyone want to give me one? PLEASE?


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 9, 2007)

hat said:


> I wish I had one too. Anyone want to give me one? PLEASE?



I also wish i had one (HD2900xt that is ) i will also take one if someone wants to give one away


----------



## hat (Aug 9, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> I also wish i had one (HD2900xt that is ) i will also take one if someone wants to give one away



Im somebody is giving one away, I'm first. You're 2nd in line.


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 9, 2007)

> I went from a P1 75Mhz with a PCI card (don't remember which one), to a PII 233 and an AGP card(again, don't remember).




, I remember having an Intel 286 that was only clocked at like . . . 15Mhz or something like that!  We didn't make the upgrad to a 386 until sometime in the early 90's!


Good 'ol days of PC's, man!


----------



## TonyStark (Aug 10, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> I also wish i had one (HD2900xt that is ) i will also take one if someone wants to give one away



It will be in the Glove Compartment of the Lamborghini I'm sending over. Should arrive in a few days. :shadedshu


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 10, 2007)

TonyStark said:


> It will be in the Glove Compartment of the Lamborghini I'm sending over. Should arrive in a few days. :shadedshu


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 10, 2007)

Diablo or Murcielago?

Either way, that'd be the -ish!

Until you manage this:


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 10, 2007)

PWNED HAHA


----------



## Darknova (Aug 10, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> Diablo or Murcielago?
> 
> Either way, that'd be the -ish!
> 
> Until you manage this:



The guy who did that should be SHOT


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 10, 2007)

Darknova said:


> The guy who did that should be SHOT



I 2nd that but i think he is hate n him self for that wouldn't u?


----------



## Darknova (Aug 10, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> I 2nd that but i think he is hate n him self for that wouldn't u?



I'd be hanging myself for that lol. How can you do that to such an amazing car?


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 10, 2007)

lol guys what do u think of this for a backup system:

Celeron 420
2x1GB DDR667 Generic
Gigabyte GA-945P DS3
HD2600PRO
160GB Seagate LP HDD
PC-302 Case
Thermaltake 430W PSU (I already have)


----------



## Wile E (Aug 10, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> lol guys what do u think of this for a backup system:
> 
> Celeron 420
> 2x1GB DDR667 Generic
> ...


If it's just gonna be a basic internet and movie machine, step down to a HD2400, and go for some better ram.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 10, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> lol guys what do u think of this for a backup system:
> 
> Celeron 420
> 2x1GB DDR667 Generic
> ...



Hell of alot better than i have.(for now)
Celeron 950mhz @ 1228mhz
2*128mb SD133@129mhz
Geforce MX4000 (PCI)
Spider 2 mid ATX case
40gb Seagate IDE 100 HDD 
8gb IDE 
Rosewill 380w psu. 
I think it will be good for a back-up not something i would want to use everyday.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 10, 2007)

Wile E said:


> If it's just gonna be a basic internet and movie machine, step down to a HD2400, *and go for some better ram.*



rofl..... I lol'ed... Hmm... negative. 

Pentium 4 Northwood 3.2 (30 cap)
2x512MB DDR400 Single channel
ASUS P4S800
9800PRO

^old rig... not using it for backup but I want it to be similar or faster. Aim is for low heat output.


----------



## kebabs (Aug 10, 2007)

Can I join the Clubhouse?

I have a HD 2900 XT .


----------



## Wile E (Aug 10, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> rofl..... I lol'ed... Hmm... negative.
> 
> Pentium 4 Northwood 3.2 (30 cap)
> 2x512MB DDR400 Single channel
> ...


So wait, how is what I suggested, not better than the system you listed?

Oh, and I caught your edit, btw.


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 11, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Weird imprerialreign... request and RMA if possible.




Well, ATi won't RMA my card, according to them, hardware monitoring is only supported in the XT and XTX models.  They won't even take my card to modify it to support monitoring.  Kinda sad, I think, that a high-mid range card lack something so simple . . .

Anyhow, I'll ask again . . . anyone with a newer PCB designed X1950 willing to take a pic of where the temp diode(s) are located on the card (and let me know what type they are)?  I'm willing to try installing them and see if that works . . . if it doesn't work, then f-it, I guess.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 11, 2007)

Oh well man... Just grab a VF900CU or an AcceleroX2 and u'll be happier.


----------



## insider (Aug 11, 2007)

That's bull*** reply from ATI, all X1950 Pro's have temp sensors, AFAIK it's built into the core itself and another one on the PCB for ambient temps.

The bios you uploaded had fan speed levels that adjusted according to gpu temperature, if the card has no gpu temp reading then the fan adjustments cannot possibly function on the card, therefore the card would be running at the lowest fan speed level regardless of gpu temps which cannot be possible without the card overheating.

Forget about the Arctic or Zalman coolers, checkout the Thermalright V2 all copper VGA heatsink, I've not seen any reviews of it yet but judging by the design and Thermalright's reputation it'll trash any Arctic cooling/Zalman cooler with ease.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 11, 2007)

I agree that reply is bs. I had a x1950pro and it reported temps.The GPU underload and overclocked ran about 60c.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 11, 2007)

insider said:


> That's bull*** reply from ATI, all X1950 Pro's have temp sensors, AFAIK it's built into the core itself and another one on the PCB for ambient temps.
> 
> The bios you uploaded had fan speed levels that adjusted according to gpu temperature, if the card has no gpu temp reading then the fan adjustments cannot possibly function on the card, therefore the card would be running at the lowest fan speed level regardless of gpu temps which cannot be possible without the card overheating.
> 
> Forget about the Arctic or Zalman coolers, checkout the Thermalright V2 all copper VGA heatsink, I've not seen any reviews of it yet but judging by the design and Thermalright's reputation it'll trash any Arctic cooling/Zalman cooler with ease.



V2 is too heavy. Unless you dont mind about your PCB flexing. Then get it. The accelero isnt an angel exactly but the plastic shroud keeps the PCB stiff.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 11, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> Well, ATi won't RMA my card, according to them, hardware monitoring is only supported in the XT and XTX models.  They won't even take my card to modify it to support monitoring.  Kinda sad, I think, that a high-mid range card lack something so simple . . .
> 
> Anyhow, I'll ask again . . . anyone with a newer PCB designed X1950 willing to take a pic of where the temp diode(s) are located on the card (and let me know what type they are)?  I'm willing to try installing them and see if that works . . . if it doesn't work, then f-it, I guess.


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 11, 2007)

yeah . . . I thought it was ripe BS on their part, too.  Kinda sad my good 'ol X700 PRO supported hardware monitoring and this beefcake card can't.  I mean, is it just me, or has ATi's customer service slowly been dropping off since AMD bought them?  <EDIT:> Oh, and I love how customer service keeps referring me to Rage3D for possible answers to crap they don't support :shadedshu



> The bios you uploaded had fan speed levels that adjusted according to gpu temperature, if the card has no gpu temp reading then the fan adjustments cannot possibly function on the card, therefore the card would be running at the lowest fan speed level regardless of gpu temps which cannot be possible without the card overheating.



Which is defi true - I had also noticed the hardware reference for an LM63 listed in this card's BIOS also.  <sarcastically> Why would there be a reference with no hardware?!!
Anyway - that's where I got the idea that *IF* I am missing the temp diode, possibly installing one might cure this ailment.

p_o_s => Was your card an older 1950 or one of the newer designs?

I just find it ridiculous that a $250+ card doesn't have monitoring capability through 3rd party software.  Anyhow, I figured it has to have at least one sensor in the GPU based on the fan chart in the BIOS.  I had used RaBit to change that table to something I'm happier with, and re-flashed the BIOS.  I've managed to finally achieve a steady OC of 601/750 (it was beta 0.27b2 causing problems) - but I'm not willing to push it any higher with only the stock cooler, especially not knowing the exact temps - I'm going to look into a better cooling solution for it as soon as I can afford it.

This weekend I'm going to try and mod an air duct from one of my case's 60mm intake fans to the fan on the card . . . I'm going to take before/after temps with an IR gun on it if it works out alright.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 11, 2007)

I think it was the newer one.


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 11, 2007)

it looked similar to my card, then - at least as far as hardware layout?


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 11, 2007)

I am not sure it had the HIS ICE-Q3 on it so it blocked alot of stuff. From what i see it looks like it is close.


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 11, 2007)

From what all I've picked up, then - it seems that all the X1950 PRO's that *DON'T* look exactly like mine have hardware monitoring, ATi, VisionTek, DiamondMedia, and a couple others . . . so the HIS, Sapphire, etc. do . . .


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 11, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> From what all I've picked up, then - it seems that all the X1950 PRO's that *DON'T* look exactly like mine have hardware monitoring, ATi, VisionTek, DiamondMedia, and a couple others . . . so the HIS, Sapphire, etc. do . . .



My HIS did.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 11, 2007)

ICEQIII Model uses standard PCB, my one uses the standard PCB. Maybe you're just unlucky .


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 11, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> ICEQIII Model uses standard PCB, my one uses the standard PCB. Maybe you're just unlucky .



What? i know i didn't get luck i had a 2 week card life


----------



## insider (Aug 11, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> V2 is too heavy. Unless you dont mind about your PCB flexing. Then get it. The accelero isnt an angel exactly but the plastic shroud keeps the PCB stiff.



Actually the V2 is only 290g plus the weight of a fan, it's lighter than all the other Thermalright VGA sinks, the HR-03 for example is 410g without the fan, not exactly "heavy".


----------



## Darknova (Aug 11, 2007)

Yeah, they aren't heavy, it's just the mounting mechanism that's a pain. My dad's V1 bent his PCB....still useable, but a pain to get in and out of the PCI-E slot now...you have to be really careful not to over-tighten, but at the same time get a nice firm contact...


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 11, 2007)

ur dad must have been lucky to not break the BGA solder balls... or he broke the Ground pin ones. But yeah... thats one problem.


----------



## insider (Aug 11, 2007)

The mounting system is not the problem, the user that is installing it is, of course it could crack the components first if you over tighten it, it's just far easier to do than people realise.

FYI I modded the Arctic accelero with 2x 80mm fans (over 80CFM in total), I added a 39CFM 80mm Vantec fan. 

Weight is around 390g~ in total for the Arctic X2 plus the 2x 80mm fans and the load temps with ATI-Tool artifact scanner running is around 62C, pretty good compared to 66C with the YS tech 80mm + low noise 60mm Panaflo (under same ambient room temps).

Damn thing keeps getting better with more CFM added to the X2, I'll post pics up when I have the time later.


----------



## Darknova (Aug 11, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> ur dad must have been lucky to not break the BGA solder balls... or he broke the Ground pin ones. But yeah... thats one problem.



As I've said, nothing's wrong with it, it works perfectly. But if you look at it from the bottom, you notice that the connector curves. I loosened it but it still curves although not as bad as it did.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 11, 2007)

rofl... dont think about "unbending it". You WILL do more damage.


----------



## Darknova (Aug 11, 2007)

I didn't lol. It's pretty much stuck in his PC. I won't let him remove it until he agrees to pay for a new one


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 11, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> you wouldn't want windows XP SP2 OEM my gigabyte mobo and x2 4600+ would you?...
> O wait didn't u say you ordered a C2D? If you did than i am sure you don't want my AMD.



No thanks . At least later all I will need is a nice Mobo and PCI-e card and will be good to go. Then with all of the spare parts AGP and P4 I will be able to build a second system. 
Perhaps I will give Vista a try aswell.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 12, 2007)

Forget about vista... performance is the least of my worries, but the fact that the drivers are somewhat unstable and that you would need more RAM makes it less desireable.


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 12, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Forget about vista... performance is the least of my worries, but the fact that the drivers are somewhat unstable and that you would need more RAM makes it less desireable.



You mean to say they still havnt got their shit together..... crikey how long is it gonna take?

Prolly as long as it took xp to get to the stable stage lol. I have 2 gig of RAM is that not enough?


----------



## Wile E (Aug 12, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> You mean to say they still havnt got their shit together..... crikey how long is it gonna take?
> 
> Prolly as long as it took xp to get to the stable stage lol. I have 2 gig of RAM is that not enough?


2GB is enough. Vista didn't render any of my games unplayable or anything, even before I had the 2900, I had an 1800XT, and didn't have to change any of my in game settings. Vista also utilizes multiple cores better.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 12, 2007)

Wile E said:


> 2GB is enough. Vista didn't render any of my games unplayable or anything, even before I had the 2900, I had an 1800XT, and didn't have to change any of my in game settings. Vista also utilizes multiple cores better.



Agreed. Anyway, check the first page of the clubhouse, I fixed some bugs and added some more info. Who agrees that is the LONGEST POST IN TPU


----------



## erocker (Aug 12, 2007)

My info on the first page is wrong.  The picture and message pertaining to the picture are also incorrect.  The card is in my HTPC case (which is a cheap black case) and there are no cables to be seen.  (That pic was taken with my skt754 setup in a Antec 900!)     The clocks are stock @ 621 /742.  I'm actually using the PC at the moment considering my 8800 system is down due to a video card trade-in.  I still prefer playing BF2142 with my x1950pro because it supports better resolutions.  Can't wait untill ATi hopefully has something to replace my 8800.  Still hate Nvidia.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 12, 2007)

HD2900XT is a viable option, with the newer drivers its actually getting better . I would wait though, wait for a newer model that has a die shrink so it wont run so hot.


----------



## Wile E (Aug 12, 2007)

Update to my specs. I'm running at 847/999. Picture to follow. Finally got the camera back. lol. Have to go grab it.


----------



## erocker (Aug 12, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> HD2900XT is a viable option, with the newer drivers its actually getting better . I would wait though, wait for a newer model that has a die shrink so it wont run so hot.



My thoughts exactly.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 12, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Update to my specs. I'm running at 847/999. Picture to follow. Finally got the camera back. lol. Have to go grab it.



Hmm, if you can, record how the HD2900XT sounds, rev the thing up, etc.


----------



## Wile E (Aug 12, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Hmm, if you can, record how the HD2900XT sounds, rev the thing up, etc.


I actually don't have anything that will record the sounds. No mic on the computer or camera.


----------



## Wile E (Aug 12, 2007)

Finally, got a photo.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 12, 2007)

Nice mobo man  First time i've seen a neat stacker .

Anyway, your pic WONT be linked, it will have the image tags instead. Its good though that you are running the HD2900XT in that case though... ill be running the HD2900XT in a SOLO >.>

EDIT: That backplate looks uber cool


----------



## Wile E (Aug 12, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Nice mobo man  First time i've seen a neat stacker .
> 
> Anyway, your pic WONT be linked, it will have the image tags instead. Its good though that you are running the HD2900XT in that case though... ill be running the HD2900XT in a SOLO >.>
> 
> EDIT: That backplate looks uber cool


Thanx, it was a lot of work to get it that clean, and I'm still not happy with it. lol. I need to get a dremel to put some holes in the mobo tray.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 12, 2007)

Lol... I thought that spot cool was the CPU fan haha... I like that design though. Anyway. Dremel where the 24 pin is, to fit the IDE and 24 pin through, making sure there is only 1cm of a hole that you can see (less). One hole under where the top ram clips are. You see your fan cable for the rear outake? Check my P4SBeholder in the case gallery... route the wire in between the rear IO and the HD2900XT XT... there should be a small gap. Then wire the wire through the hole that you will dremel there.

For the front IO... ur sorta fucked.... yes I said that, the wires are too chunky. Only solution is to dremel a huge hole then shove the wires through them, then drill another one so you can route it to the front panel.

For your HD2900XT, the PCI-E Wires should be routed under the mobo, from there then just go through the hole under where the ram clips are as I said earlier. Thats one less task needed.


----------



## Wile E (Aug 12, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Lol... I thought that spot cool was the CPU fan haha... I like that design though. Anyway. Dremel where the 24 pin is, to fit the IDE and 24 pin through, making sure there is only 1cm of a hole that you can see (less). One hole under where the top ram clips are. You see your fan cable for the rear outake? Check my P4SBeholder in the case gallery... route the wire in between the rear IO and the HD2900XT XT... there should be a small gap. Then wire the wire through the hole that you will dremel there.
> 
> For the front IO... ur sorta fucked.... yes I said that, the wires are too chunky. Only solution is to dremel a huge hole then shove the wires through them, then drill another one so you can route it to the front panel.
> 
> For your HD2900XT, the PCI-E Wires should be routed under the mobo, from there then just go through the hole under where the ram clips are as I said earlier. Thats one less task needed.


Pretty much my plans, but I'm gonna go a lot further with the holes, and pretty much remove all the material under the mobo, but leave enough to still have the mounting holes, obviously. lol It will basically look like a grid.

For the exhaust fan, are you talking about the black wires? If so, that's the extra power for my GFX lanes. If you look closely, there's the black cable, then the fan cable intersects it, and plugs directly into the header. The slack in the rear fan's wire is wrapped around the fan itself. There's no gap between my vga and i/o plate, anyway.

I also think I have enough length on the front panel cables, to be able to cut a hole in the side of the drive cage, and run it under the mobo.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 12, 2007)

No i'll show you a picture. 






Look at that rear outtake... look at the wire, You basically have to do this  before you install the motherboard and GPU. The GPU serves as the vertical retention.






Damn I need images of it having a 9800PRO...


----------



## Wile E (Aug 12, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> No i'll show you a picture.
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/800/__2.jpg
> 
> ...


OK, I see. It doesn't matter tho. I made a quick paint edit to show you what I mean, cause it's kinda hard to see from the angle I shot it at. Fan wires are red, extra PCIe bus power in blue.


----------



## Darknova (Aug 12, 2007)

Aww, I wish I could get mine as tidy as you guys....it's a hell of a lot tidier than it was...but I'm still not entirely happy with it.


----------



## Wile E (Aug 12, 2007)

Darknova said:


> Aww, I wish I could get mine as tidy as you guys....it's a hell of a lot tidier than it was...but I'm still not entirely happy with it.


Don't fret. I won't be happy with mine until I can match sladesurfer or tk. lol


----------



## Darknova (Aug 12, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Don't fret. I won't be happy with mine until I can match sladesurfer or tk. lol



Mine doesn't even stand up to yours


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 12, 2007)

I think mines probably worse 







Like how I've got the P4 power cable sandwiched between the PSU and the CPU cooler?!

Those darm IDE cables, and I don't have the space behind the mobo to hide stuffz - meh, I just need a bigger case


----------



## Darknova (Aug 12, 2007)

Lol yeah, atleast I can hide my cables behind the HDD cage...just can't get them off the floor of the case....no mobo tray to hide behind either


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 12, 2007)

same here . . . I wish I could relocate the HDD's, but . . . mATX case is kinda lacking in relocatability.


But, soon as I can upgrade to a better mobo, I'll have to get a new case.  I'd prefer to get away from the mATX architecture.


----------



## Wile E (Aug 12, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> same here . . . I wish I could relocate the HDD's, but . . . mATX case is kinda lacking in relocatability.
> 
> 
> But, soon as I can upgrade to a better mobo, I'll have to get a new case.  I'd prefer to get away from the mATX architecture.


Get a Stacker 830/832 like me. lol. It's huge, absolutely dwarfs my ATX mobo. Makes it look like a mATX. lol


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 13, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> I think mines probably worse
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Almost as messy as my desk lol


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 13, 2007)




----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 13, 2007)

doesn't your computer get hot in there?


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 13, 2007)

wooden insulation is teh bes!!

y'know, I'm surprised my system doesn't get too hot at all considering how cluttered it is in the case.  CPU never breaks 39C, mobo is usually right around 40C.  Ambient in the case tends to be anywhere between 45-50C, depending on how hard everything is running.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 13, 2007)

If i was to put mine in something like that it would overheat faster than you know what is going on.It already gets too hot in the wide open and my case is neat on the inside.Click evil spider man in my sig and you will see.BTW the fan is sucking the hot air out in the back and there is a front fan.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 13, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Don't fret. I won't be happy with mine until I can match sladesurfer or tk. lol



XD... Ahh... at least you got some inspiration


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 13, 2007)

The front has a 120mm fan and it also has 2 80mm fans on the side and one 120mm on the rear soon. It dosnt get hot.
CPU sits 37-39 all day long and mobo is sitting on 35


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 13, 2007)

I would still upgrade the processor Cragleberry, and what happened to your post count?


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 13, 2007)

I am replacing the CPU soon with C2D. Have no idea what is going on with the post count?


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 13, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> same here . . . I wish I could relocate the HDD's, but . . . mATX case is kinda lacking in relocatability.
> 
> 
> But, soon as I can upgrade to a better mobo, I'll have to get a new case.  I'd prefer to get away from the mATX architecture.



Its not that bad man... I would only upgrade that GPU cooler though. It looks fine, very neat. I would replace that P4 as well...


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 13, 2007)

tkpenalty you have a C2D and your sig says support AMD...


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 13, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Its not that bad man... I would only upgrade that GPU cooler though. It looks fine, very neat. I would replace that P4 as well...



I'm gonna rig up an air duct from the 60mm fan on the side of my case to the top of the fan on the GPU - with 2 fans blowing the same direction, that _should_ be a whole lot more airflow across that cooler.  Something to hold me off until I can afford a new cooler or just switch over to liquid cooling . . .

But yeah, as soon as I have the extra money saved up, I'm gonna do some more upgrading . . . so far, my plan of attack is to upgrade the case and mobo - to something that will support Crossfire and an Intel Core 2 Duo (or an Extreme), so that way I can keep running this P(os)4 until I can afford the new CPU, hopefully get some more tweakability out of it.  Next up will be a cooler for the GPU, and I'll prob go to liquid cooling at that point.

Then I'll be looking to get a coupla new HDDs and get away from those ancient IDE cables.


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 14, 2007)

MMM IDE Cables. 
Gotta get SATA easier to hide the cables. I am not going to bother even with cable managment until I get my C2D. Then I will attempt it. Prolly wont look as good as tk's rig but.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 14, 2007)

damn TK has good WM... I can't get mine that good i have tried everything but cut holes in my case maybe one day i will.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 14, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> I'm gonna rig up an air duct from the 60mm fan on the side of my case to the top of the fan on the GPU - with 2 fans blowing the same direction, that _should_ be a whole lot more airflow across that cooler.  Something to hold me off until I can afford a new cooler or just switch over to liquid cooling . . .
> 
> But yeah, as soon as I have the extra money saved up, I'm gonna do some more upgrading . . . so far, my plan of attack is to upgrade the case and mobo - to something that will support Crossfire and an Intel Core 2 Duo (or an Extreme), so that way I can keep running this P(os)4 until I can afford the new CPU, hopefully get some more tweakability out of it.  Next up will be a cooler for the GPU, and I'll prob go to liquid cooling at that point.
> 
> Then I'll be looking to get a coupla new HDDs and get away from those ancient IDE cables.



While you are at it, grab yourself a VF700CU or a VF900CU for the GPU.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 14, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> MMM IDE Cables.
> Gotta get SATA easier to hide the cables. I am not going to bother even with cable managment until I get my C2D. Then I will attempt it. Prolly wont look as good as tk's rig but.



Why do you have a HDD on the bottom of the case?


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 14, 2007)

You will not believe this, but the image quality is even better atm... GET 7.8 DRIVERS ASAP!


----------



## mitsirfishi (Aug 14, 2007)

Shot with QV-R61 at 2007-08-14

getting ready to test forgot to include other crossfire bridge ;P test bed my ASUS eax x1950pro running 620/1400(memory wont budge)  and my beasty HIS X1950pRo at 655/1552 still trying to find a bios where it will let me raise vcore


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 14, 2007)

Looks pretty cool . I've been planning to get another X1950PRO but i've scrapped that idea...


----------



## mitsirfishi (Aug 14, 2007)

it was only 75quid for another card so ill take a chance ^^


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 14, 2007)

Cool man! Anyway...

*OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT: CLUBHOUSE IS NOW THE X1k-HD2k CLUBHOUSE, X1xxx GPU USERS MAY NOW JOIN.*

Yes I'm expanding the club , as it WILL help a lot.


----------



## Urlyin (Aug 14, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


>



MOMO FTW !!!


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 15, 2007)

Momo...? lol.

Anyway guys with X1k GPUs, if you want to join, tell me.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 15, 2007)

Could anyone that has a 2600xt give some benchmarks?


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 15, 2007)

you can use 2 different brands with xfire... I just learned some thing new.


----------



## Darknova (Aug 15, 2007)

Well I upgraded to 7.8, and they rock. I've only tested it in CSS, but I'm getting 20fps increase with full HDR which is astonishing tbh.

Think I'm going to reinstall Oblivion and have a look


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 15, 2007)

>




ha!  I just noticed the pic on the monitor is the innards of my rig 


Well, my "idea" to rig up a fan duct to my card has gone kaput - not enough space in between the card and the X-Fi, so . . . until I can afford the upgrade to an aftermarket unit, if anyone has a factory dual-slot leaf-blower coolers off an XTX or something they no longer want 



yeah, I noticed the 7.8's are a really great release, too


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 16, 2007)

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100530552
that should keep it cool  and not a bad price


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 16, 2007)

It's elextric too!  Maybe I can mod the PSU to power it


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 16, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> It's elextric too!  Maybe I can mod the PSU to power it



good luck with that.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 16, 2007)

Please stop using this thread to beg, it is getting somewhat annoying. Anyway, imperialreign, as I said, grab yourself an AcceleroX2.


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 16, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Please stop using this thread to beg, it is getting somewhat annoying. Anyway, imperialreign, as I said, grab yourself an AcceleroX2.




. . . sorry bout that last post, it was more joking around than anything else.

Seeing as how the AX2 isn't too expensive at all, I'll prob pick one up at the beginning of Sep - I need to check the height specs of it though to how much space I have available between the PCIe and the PCI slot.

Hey, is there anything else I should be aware of on my card with swapping to that cooler?  And would you recommend leaving the copper heatsink on the back of the card - I mean, it shouldn't interfere with the AX2, right?


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 17, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Please stop using this thread to beg, it is getting somewhat annoying. Anyway, imperialreign, as I said, grab yourself an AcceleroX2.



sorry i will stop...


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 17, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> ha!  I just noticed the pic on the monitor is the innards of my rig
> 
> 
> Well, my "idea" to rig up a fan duct to my card has gone kaput - not enough space in between the card and the X-Fi, so . . . until I can afford the upgrade to an aftermarket unit, if anyone has a factory dual-slot leaf-blower coolers off an XTX or something they no longer want
> ...



Yep thats the one. I will upload new photo of rig in a tick just gotta fit the 120mm fan into it.


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 17, 2007)

Darknova said:


> Well I upgraded to 7.8, and they rock. I've only tested it in CSS, but I'm getting 20fps increase with full HDR which is astonishing tbh.
> 
> Think I'm going to reinstall Oblivion and have a look



I just tried installing the 7.8 drivers and cannot get over a 4 bit desktop?? WTF
So I have uninstalled can someone help me out with the right driver for my HIS AGP X1950 Pro ICEQ3 Turbo ATi card cheers


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 17, 2007)

http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/992.html

Give me better votes guys (shudders in anger).


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 17, 2007)

i voted...you can do the same for me if you haven't. I like that WM it is still the best i have seen
BTW i am NOT begging for your vote or anyones.


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 17, 2007)

I voted just then. After installing these drivers I cannot get a desktop that is above 4bit and it will not let me change it WTF


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 17, 2007)

AGP X1950PROs die with 7.8... Switch back to 7.6's.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 17, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> i voted...you can do the same for me if you haven't. I like that WM it is still the best i have seen
> BTW i am NOT begging for your vote or anyones.



I gave you an 8


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 17, 2007)

Thanks
BTW i gave you a 7


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 17, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> Thanks
> BTW i gave you a 7


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 17, 2007)

Thanks Tk I will get the ati tool and see what I get..... I got   13993   marks with 3dmark03 
Cant wait to see the difference when i got the c2d


----------



## Urlyin (Aug 17, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Momo...? lol.
> 
> Anyway guys with X1k GPUs, if you want to join, tell me.



The Logitech steering wheel  ...


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 17, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


>



I would have given you higher if you had some good lighting and a window.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 17, 2007)

Who keeps giving me a 4... (I redid the thing cause the case gallery stuffed my images up)


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 18, 2007)

Urlyin said:


> The Logitech steering wheel  ...



Its not a bad wheel shouldve spent a bit more and got the g-25


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 18, 2007)

> http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/992.html
> 
> Give me better votes guys (shudders in anger).




can't vote - that link keeps popping a page saying "Invalid Case ID"


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 18, 2007)

Same here invalid case id


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 18, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100530552
> that should keep it cool  and not a bad price



Funny bugger aint ya.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 18, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Funny bugger aint ya.



 i can be.


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 18, 2007)

lol


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 18, 2007)

She runs good now with the 120mm fan.... maybee I might have to get a bigger desk come summer time to assist  the cooling factor but for now shes all good.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 18, 2007)

good to hear


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 18, 2007)

meh. . . just go to the hardware store and get a ton of the flexible ductwork, and run a duct from your central heating/cooling system right into the front of the case.  Crank your thermostat down to like . . . 60F, and see how cool you can get that case to roll!


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 18, 2007)

That would be good if you were doing some high ocing without LN2(or what ever it is)


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 18, 2007)

hmmm, liquid Nitrogen is for n00bs - if you want teh reelz k001ing, you gotta use liquid oxygen


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 18, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> hmmm, liquid Nitrogen is for n00bs - if you want teh reelz k001ing, you gotta use liquid oxygen



ok......  I don't even think that is possible....the closest thing i can think of would be water.


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 18, 2007)

Liquid O2 is very similar to LN2, although has a lower freezing point and could 'theorheticly' operate at a lower temp than LN2.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 18, 2007)

I learned something new and i am not even in school(will be in 5 days.  )


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 18, 2007)

> I learned something new and i am not even in school(will be in 5 days.  )



same here, and not looking forward to it, honestly.  Along with working full time, I'll also be a full time student again this semester, and I hvae to take all higher level classes


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 18, 2007)

never mind on what was here before i am just going to have to work on my cooling first before i buy something i don't need and just want.


----------



## Wile E (Aug 18, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> never mind on what was here before i am just going to have to work on my cooling first before i buy something i don't need and just want.


Well, if you change your mind, an X1800XL with an aftermarket cooler generally does very well. If you can find one, that is.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 18, 2007)

Thanks i will keep that in mind.


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 18, 2007)

I just hate gettin up at 4am for work


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 21, 2007)

anyone know if an Visiontek X1300 PRO is xFire capable with an x1950 PRO?

I get the feeling not, huh?  (wondering cause I got the 1300 for free )


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 21, 2007)

I doubt it. But it is good that you got it for free that rarely happens.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 21, 2007)

No. Keep dreaming


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 21, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> anyone know if an Visiontek X1300 PRO is xFire capable with an x1950 PRO?
> 
> I get the feeling not, huh?  (wondering cause I got the 1300 for free )



no you can only cross fire the same GPU x1950pro with x1950pro or xt i think.If you could it would down clock the x1950 to the x1300 speed i think but i am not sure.


----------



## Namslas90 (Aug 21, 2007)

Here's a link to the XFire compatability chart;

http://ati.amd.com/technology/crossfire/howitworks.html


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 21, 2007)

yeah, I didn't think it was possible, even in software mode . . .

oh well - still can't beat a decent free card, though


----------



## mitsirfishi (Aug 22, 2007)

only case of different cards ive seen is a 7600gs and a 7300gt combined in sli but i should be talking about the x series ;P end of next week ill be posting some x1950pro crossfire benchmarks when i get my new psu and another set of crossfire bridges lost one of mine  *daft sod*  wish me the best in my quest to try and set highest score on a set of x1950's on a amd on air  beat a conroe if luck is on my side  any drivers which are good for 3dmark aswell as general game performance ? hoping to achive 8.5-9k in 06 17k in 05 and 27-28k in 03 ill keep you guys informed on updates and suisidal test  both cards will be running 650core memory one at 1552 other 1400 as its a gay card


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 23, 2007)

speaking of crossfire - I've heard rumor here and there that's it's possible to rig up more than just two same family ATi's in one crossfire mode, like 3+ all hooked together.  Is this true or just a rumor?


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 23, 2007)

http://www.pcper.com/archive.php?page=4&year=2006&month=6
Check this out sick as but power hungry.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 23, 2007)

Meh, redundant. Its a gimmick itself at the moment, extremely unweildy imho.


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 23, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Meh, redundant. Its a gimmick itself at the moment, extremely unweildy imho.



Extremely costly anyway


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 23, 2007)

so it is possible then, and not just a rumor - cool!  Although, I can't imagine you'd be in need of that much GPU firepower.  I had thought, though, that for more than 2 cards they all still had to be linked through the xfire cables - but I guess not.

Outta curiosity, is nVidia's SLI capability able to compete with that?  I'm fairly certain SLI can only pull off only two card . . .


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 24, 2007)

No imprerialreign, one card is doing physics calculations. WHO JUST GAVE THIS CLUBHOUSE A 1? (If i find out who you are, prepare to get slammed)


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 24, 2007)

Can you take a look at this for me please
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=38152:eek:
Please


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 24, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> No imprerialreign, one card is doing physics calculations. WHO JUST GAVE THIS CLUBHOUSE A 1? (If i find out who you are, prepare to get slammed)



it was                                          n't me


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 24, 2007)

> No imprerialreign, one card is doing physics calculations.



Sorry mis-read aht was written on that other page! 




> WHO JUST GAVE THIS CLUBHOUSE A 1? (If i find out who you are, prepare to get slammed)



Defi not I - y'all been way too helpful to me for such a bad mark!


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 24, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> No imprerialreign, one card is doing physics calculations. WHO JUST GAVE THIS CLUBHOUSE A 1? (If i find out who you are, prepare to get slammed)



I havnt voted for this but I will and it wont be a 1. My vote will be signifigantly higher.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 24, 2007)

i wouldn't give it a 1 you people have put up with me for some time now so there would be no way in hell i would give a 1.I don't remember if i voted or not yet but i sure as hell know it wasn't a 1.If i didn't vote i will soon.
me person that gave 1


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 24, 2007)

Oh yeah, all you guys, grab the signatures if possible. I'll put you guys within the "Clubhouse Regular"


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 25, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Oh yeah, all you guys, grab the signatures if possible. I'll put you guys within the "Clubhouse Regular"



Cheers tk, I am building my new rig on paper
So far 
MSI P965 motherboard
E6750 CPU
2GB Geil DDR2 800
Palit ATI HD2900 XT

Howz it look so far


----------



## Darknova (Aug 25, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Cheers tk, I am building my new rig on paper
> So far
> MSI P965 motherboard
> E6750 CPU
> ...



Not bad mate. Kinda similar to mine.

E6850
Abit IP35 Pro
2Gb Crucial Ballistix

and I'm going to keep my 1950XT for the moment lol.

Hopefully when I get paid I'll be able to afford it


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 25, 2007)

I wasnt planning a full build I was just gonna get a c2d
But my HIS X1950 Pro is dead by the look of it so I will use it as an excuse to build a new rig.
Bloody expensive but at least this next one will last a while


----------



## Darknova (Aug 25, 2007)

I don't think your board would support C2D. So you could just get the mobo, CPU and memory, and then wait a while to see how the graphics card market goes.

EDIT: Hah, missed that about your card being dead 

I'd just buy another cheap Pro, then save up for a high-end one once ATi gets its ass in gear.


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 25, 2007)

Darknova said:


> I don't think your board would support C2D. So you could just get the mobo, CPU and memory, and then wait a while to see how the graphics card market goes.
> 
> EDIT: Hah, missed that about your card being dead
> 
> I'd just buy another cheap Pro, then save up for a high-end one once ATi gets its ass in gear.



Yep my current board has c2d support only up to 800MHz FSB
Only Has AGP 

Bying another Pro would pay for my motherboard.
I will keep on using my onboard untill I have built my new system and then sell my old one.
And when my HIS X1950 has been replaced or repaired I will sell that aswell.


----------



## Darknova (Aug 25, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Yep my current board has c2d support only up to 800MHz FSB
> Only Has AGP
> 
> Bying another Pro would pay for my motherboard.
> ...



Ah, AGP....yeah, better off with a full overhaul.


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 25, 2007)

Darknova said:


> Ah, AGP....yeah, better off with a full overhaul.



What You said


----------



## Darknova (Aug 25, 2007)

Sorry, i meant asap. Instead of buying stuff to "tide you over" so to speak.


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 25, 2007)

It is sure gonna suck while I buy 1 component a week untill finish and then it will take a couple weeks to save for the graphics card. No gaming for me for a while. Maybe I can try to beat tk's cable management! I will have plenty of time lol


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 25, 2007)

If you're looking for another PRO, keep your eyes open - there always some deal or another for the buggars.  I got mine for $169 brand new in store 



> Oh yeah, all you guys, grab the signatures if possible.



Damn, that reminds me . . . I knew I've been forgetting to do something with Photoshop!


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 25, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> If you're looking for another PRO, keep your eyes open - there always some deal or another for the buggars.  I got mine for $169 brand new in store
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, that reminds me . . . I knew I've been forgetting to do something with Photoshop!



That sort of would defeat the purpose of doing what I am doing as I would then be stuck with DX9


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 25, 2007)

I cannot work out how to make the sig pic work sorry for the double post


----------



## Sovereign (Aug 25, 2007)

I think you need to revise your HD2600XT GDDR4 assesment. I am now the proud owner of one of the most powerfull HD2600XT's on the market atm. The MSI HD2600XT GDDR4 Diamond OC Edition which runs @ 850MHz Core and 2300MHz Memory. I also got it for less than $130 (which will ultimately be around $110 after MIR) shipped, brand new of course. For the price and the speed bump the new Cat 7.8s give the HDs, this card is definitely a better bargin these days! And to think I was just about to drop $150ish for a new 8600GTS or possibly even a HiS X1950PRO...


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 25, 2007)

could you give some ss of benchmarks? If you don't want to post them here PM me with them please.


----------



## Sovereign (Aug 25, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> could you give some ss of benchmarks? If you don't want to post them here PM me with them please.



No problem! I'm going out of town in a few hours and won't be back until monday afternoon so I'll probably get crackin on some benchmarks in the evening after i've had a chance to recouporate a bit. They'll probably be submitted to TPU's hwbot team as well so I can help out a little futher there.

ATM, if I were to make a semi educational guess at a score, I'd say around 6k + in 3DMark06 with current specs, MCE'05 and Cat 7.8s.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 26, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> I cannot work out how to make the sig pic work sorry for the double post



Get rid of that  emote.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 26, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Cheers tk, I am building my new rig on paper
> So far
> MSI P965 motherboard
> E6750 CPU
> ...




Screw that MSI, if you live near MSY, go find yourself a Gigabyte GAP35 DS3P. CPU, i would go for a Q6600 Instead, seeing how it should be useful very soon, RAM, heard of Samsung PC8500 DDR1066 which costs half the prince? With the GPU, i can say anything about it since all HD2900XTs are the same. 

Core 2 Quad Q6600
Gigabyte GA P35 DS3P
2x1GB DDR1066 Samsung (badged as Generic for some odd reason, reason why this, is because you KNOW it can do DDR1066)
Palit HD2900XT


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 26, 2007)

Sovereign said:


> I think you need to revise your HD2600XT GDDR4 assesment. I am now the proud owner of one of the most powerfull HD2600XT's on the market atm. The MSI HD2600XT GDDR4 Diamond OC Edition which runs @ 850MHz Core and 2300MHz Memory. I also got it for less than $130 (which will ultimately be around $110 after MIR) shipped, brand new of course. For the price and the speed bump the new Cat 7.8s give the HDs, this card is definitely a better bargin these days! And to think I was just about to drop $150ish for a new 8600GTS or possibly even a HiS X1950PRO...



Haha.... good man. Problem is that you'd have to clock the ROPs to an insane clockspeed to remove that bottleneck. Give me figures of performance in games like NFS: C or something. 3D Marks doesnt mean anything these days. If it is possible, clock the Core as high as possible, the memory does not really matter, I'm aiming at getting the pipelines running as fast as possible.


----------



## insider (Aug 26, 2007)

Still 128-bit memory bus, DDR4 regardless of what speed it's running at makes little difference due to the bus bandwidth bottleneck.


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 26, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Get rid of that  emote.



Crickey how sill am I
Cheers tk


> Screw that MSI, if you live near MSY, go find yourself a Gigabyte GAP35 DS3P. CPU, i would go for a Q6600 Instead, seeing how it should be useful very soon, RAM, heard of Samsung PC8500 DDR1066 which costs half the prince? With the GPU, i can say anything about it since all HD2900XTs are the same.
> 
> Core 2 Quad Q6600
> Gigabyte GA P35 DS3P
> ...


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 26, 2007)

can anyone make me a sig of a HIS X1950 pro turbo ICE-Q III PCI-E x16 and put RIP? That is a good idea for a sig Craigleberry


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 26, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> can anyone make me a sig of a HIS X1950 pro turbo ICE-Q III PCI-E x16 and put RIP? That is a good idea for a sig Craigleberry



lol Mine really is dead yo


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 26, 2007)

mine only lasted 2 weeks so i feel your pain bro.


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 26, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> mine only lasted 2 weeks so i feel your pain bro.



Its just crap almost makes me wanna get a nvidia as I never had 1 problem with any of the nvidia stuff.
I will check out the 800 MHz Ram aswell 
Thanks Wile E


----------



## Wile E (Aug 26, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Cheers tk, I am building my new rig on paper
> So far
> MSI P965 motherboard
> E6750 CPU
> ...


I think you should go for Crucial Ballistix DDR2-800. They're D9's and mine hit 1200Mhz. Oh, and they're priced really well, too.


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 26, 2007)

Tk changed my mind on the board as it is only 50 bucks more than i would pay for the msi but so much better.. With the ram I might go with geil 2gb ddr2 800MHz for now nice and cheap.
Crickey this rig is gonna cost a heap
I can get Q6600 for 350 tk is that good??


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 26, 2007)

If your lucky the you will get the Geil RAM that has D9's.There are some of them that do there are others that don't


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 26, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Its just crap almost makes me wanna get a nvidia as I never had 1 problem with any of the nvidia stuff.
> I will check out the 800 MHz Ram aswell
> Thanks Wile E



Why do you think i went with nvidia my first time ever using ATI and it craps out on me in 2 weeks when i had a cheap azz nvidia that i had overclocked 100% on the mem and 85% on the core.(with extra voltage and cooling) that has been a long time but it did die on me it started to smoke one day when running 3dmark 06


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 26, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> If your lucky the you will get the Geil RAM that has D9's.There are some of them that do there are others that don't



Dosnt matter as long as it works for now....
I already have 2 of the elixer 667 DDR2 That may do untill I can get better.
With all of the spare parts I have from this and my last rig I may have a sale


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 26, 2007)

Wile E What did you do to your card?


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 26, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Dosnt matter as long as it works for now....
> I already have 2 of the elixer 667 DDR2 That may do untill I can get better.
> With all of the spare parts I have from this and my last rig I may have a sale



if you want to sell anything than PM me with the link to the FS thread.


----------



## Wile E (Aug 26, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Wile E What did you do to your card?


What do you mean?


EDIT: NM, I see it on the front page. Click the link in my sig to find out. lol. Card might still be ok, but I have to test it yet.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 26, 2007)

I will test the card for u Wile e if you send me the card and pay for me to send it back to you.


----------



## Wile E (Aug 26, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> I will test the card for u Wile e if you send me the card and pay for me to send it back to you.


lol. Nah, I'll be able to test it on Tuesday, when I buy my 6000+ and DFI back, that you see pictured on page 1.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 26, 2007)

can't blame me for try n can u? I would like to see how a 2900xt does with a 4600+ oced to 2.8ghz
keep us updated on if it works or not.


----------



## Wile E (Aug 26, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> can't blame me for try n can u? I would like to see how a 2900xt does with a 4600+ oced to 2.8ghz
> keep us updated on if it works or not.


Nope, can't blame you. It was worth a shot. lol. With my older Brisbane at 2.8, it would still play anything I threw at it maxed out @ 1440x900.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 26, 2007)

thanks for the info.The 2600xt is starting to look good to me.


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 26, 2007)

Wile E said:


> What do you mean?
> 
> 
> EDIT: NM, I see it on the front page. Click the link in my sig to find out. lol. Card might still be ok, but I have to test it yet.



Talk about snap crackle pop!
Hey can anyone tell me what the jumpers are for??


----------



## Wile E (Aug 26, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Talk about snap crckle pop


lol. Yeah. And you thought your card dying so quickly was bad, huh?


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 26, 2007)

Yep this is a costly addiction


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 26, 2007)

The Jumper is for the PAL/NTSC setting, it has nothing to do with your dead X1950PRO... Anyway, i find it curious that so many X1950PRO users with the HIS models have faliures... wtf?


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 26, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> The Jumper is for the PAL/NTSC setting, it has nothing to do with your dead X1950PRO... Anyway, i find it curious that so many X1950PRO users with the HIS models have faliures... wtf?




Hey tk speaking of failure I inserted the card back into the board and connected via the analog dongle and away she goes but I cannot get the drivers to work ie 

The desktop has missing icons and using windows explorer with missing buttons.
I do not realy know weather its coz the card now is faulty or something to do with NET 2.0??
I have tried with 7.7 and 7.8 and later will try with 7.6. Will NET 2.0 Cause problems?? with ATI
I have been using add remove 
Then rebooting in safe mode running driver sweeper
Then running cc cleaner aswell
Maybee still ATI Stuff on system 32

What could I try now?
Check out my new sig that  imperialreign done for me sweet as.


----------



## DOM (Aug 26, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Hey tk speaking of failure I inserted the card back into the board and connected via the analog dongle and away she goes but I cannot get the drivers to work ie
> 
> The desktop has missing icons and using windows explorer with missing buttons.
> I do not realy know weather its coz the card now is faulty or something to do with NET 2.0??
> ...


So its kind of working now ??

Try window update check if your missing anything, use the custom it will show you all the installs and istall them see if that helps


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 27, 2007)

Funny M$ update reckon I needed NET Framework 1.1 so I will get that and check out what happens then


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 27, 2007)

Craigleberry, your GPU is not dead. GO BACK TO 7.6 DRIVERS.


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 27, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Craigleberry, your GPU is not dead. GO BACK TO 7.6 DRIVERS.



Maybe not dead but may aswell be.
It wont switch on my display with the dvi only with analog.
And I have tried 7.6 7.7 and 7.8 and they all did the same.
I could try re instal O/S to refresh the registry and then start with 7.6 drivers.
That will tell for sure.
But that dosnt explain why it wont turn on my LCD with the DVI


----------



## Wile E (Aug 27, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Maybe not dead but may aswell be.
> It wont switch on my display with the dvi only with analog.
> And I have tried 7.6 7.7 and 7.8 and they all did the same.
> I could try re instal O/S to refresh the registry and then start with 7.6 drivers.
> ...


Before you do all that, did you try a different cable?


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 27, 2007)

How will that fix it?


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 27, 2007)

Um...RMA?


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 27, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Um...RMA?



Finaly got a reply out of the seller on ebay so its getting sent back tomorrow when it gets there and they find that it is stuffed I will try to get them to send me a pci e version
Thanks guys for all of your help


----------



## mitsirfishi (Aug 27, 2007)

good luck with the rma hope you get a card back quickly  what graphics you using now onboard ?


----------



## mitsirfishi (Aug 28, 2007)

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=5497058 my asus card decides to clock on the memory now


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 28, 2007)

just to throw this tidbit 'o information out, Craigle - did you check to make sure your LCD is actually set to DVI?  Some LCD's don't intuitively pick up the signal, you've got to hit a switch on the side to force it to change - mine is like that.

Also, with DVI and certain LCD's, it's possible the monitor might not be interpreting the signal properly from the GPU, usually just turning the monitor off and then back on will clear it up.

Don't know if you tried any of that yet or not, but ya never know . . .


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 28, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> just to throw this tidbit 'o information out, Craigle - did you check to make sure your LCD is actually set to DVI?  Some LCD's don't intuitively pick up the signal, you've got to hit a switch on the side to force it to change - mine is like that.
> 
> Also, with DVI and certain LCD's, it's possible the monitor might not be interpreting the signal properly from the GPU, usually just turning the monitor off and then back on will clear it up.
> 
> Don't know if you tried any of that yet or not, but ya never know . . .



Cheers mate, I am coming across as such a noob arnt I. lol
Yes I did try  all of that.


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 28, 2007)

> Cheers mate, I am coming across as such a noob arnt I. lol
> Yes I did try all of that.



It's all good man, you know how we can all sometimes forget the simple stuff


----------



## Wile E (Aug 28, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> How will that fix it?


Well, if it works with vga, but not DVI, maybe your DVI cable is bad.


----------



## mitsirfishi (Aug 28, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Well, if it works with vga, but not DVI, maybe your DVI cable is bad.



they dont have vga both dvi so as most people use dvi to vga adapters


----------



## t_ski (Aug 29, 2007)

PM sent


----------



## Widjaja (Aug 29, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> The Jumper is for the PAL/NTSC setting, it has nothing to do with your dead X1950PRO... Anyway, i find it curious that so many X1950PRO users with the HIS models have faliures... wtf?




And yet the reviews on these cards say they are AWSOME!!

Craigleberry
Well I hope your PCI-E RMA card does the job.

If the RMA is bad can you RMA that card aswell or is that it?


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 29, 2007)

Yes, REV.1 cards were awesome but the Rev2 are FAIL. RMA Asap.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 29, 2007)

I was using a HIS x1950pro turbo and it was PCI-E it failed also.It is making me think i don't want to buy HIS when i get a DX10 ATI card. BTW the 2900xt 512mb is on my Xmas list of stuff i want so maybe i will get it.


----------



## t_ski (Aug 29, 2007)

This issue with the HIS cards, is that limited to the X1950Pros or other cards as well?  I never had any kind of trouble with my X1950XTX, and I got it used, too.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Aug 29, 2007)

I would also like to know that.


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 29, 2007)

just curious, as I'll prob be ordering a GPU cooler by the weekend for the card - I was looking long and hard at the AX2 cooler - but the new cooler from Cooler Master has caught my attention:

Cooler Master CoolViva Pro


has anyone heard any good or bad reviews on these yet?  CM has reviews on their site, but I've always held reviews posted by the manufacturer to be inherently biased.  Opinions?


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 30, 2007)

I am going to sell the dammn card when I get it back and then 
I will get hd2900 but steering clear of HIS


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 30, 2007)

Nah HIS screwed up the X1950PRO only. I would go with Sapphire though, they are happy to RMA if your card commits suicide, hey if you use headphones while you game, the stock cooler for the X1950PRO isnt THAT bad.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 30, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> just curious, as I'll prob be ordering a GPU cooler by the weekend for the card - I was looking long and hard at the AX2 cooler - but the new cooler from Cooler Master has caught my attention:
> 
> Cooler Master CoolViva Pro
> 
> ...



Its a good cooler, however it takes three slots.... not two but THREE. Its that huge. It was designed to fit a whole spectrum of cards though, thus nearing clearance. I would go with the AcceleroX2 instead however, a smarter choice honestly.


----------



## Tbud (Aug 30, 2007)

These cards might not be DOA, they are just stubborn.

I just received the HIS X1950 pro, I opted for that because I was sent a Diamond X1950 with DDR2 when it was advertised to have GDDR3, so I sent it back (didnt want the extra power draw and heat).  It was funny that it was so hard to get working but now it does. I have an older Tyan MPX (dual MPs) with a 4X universal AGP slot.  The mobo wont even accept ATX12V power supplies newer than version 2.0. I blamed difficulties on my mobo. I had to put the card in and take it about about 20 times before it would POST, but I have seen this before, but only like 3-4 times.  After that I got blue screens and Windows would not boot, so I had to go back in with the PCI card and delete all the old ATI drivers that were conflicting.  After that I ran the ATI driver install and rebooted and it crapped out, locked up. So I went back into safe mode and deleted all drivers again and I just manually installed the drivers through device manager and now it works great.  Seems better to let Windows do the install. 

It works great in my dual 2Ghz Athlon MP at 266Mhz FSB, 4X AGP.  On many things the cpu and AGP slot won't be the bottleneck, so it still helps to have the powerful gpu. 

I have the PCI slot below it filled, but I also have 2 120mm intake fans blowing over it and a 92mm exhaust fan right above it, and vents right next to it. One of the main reasons i picked it is because of where the heat is vented, all the Nvidia stuff went out the back and my intake fans were countering the gpu fan. 

Nvidia is not innocent in the arena of DOAs and early failures.  I have owned both brands and honestly think the ATIs have performed better.  My 6800GT really disappointed. These newer cards are so much bigger and complex that it is so much easier to damage them, with ESD and such.


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 30, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Nah HIS screwed up the X1950PRO only. I would go with Sapphire though, they are happy to RMA if your card commits suicide, hey if you use headphones while you game, the stock cooler for the X1950PRO isnt THAT bad.[/QUOTE
> 
> lol they are loud


----------



## Wile E (Aug 30, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> they dont have vga both dvi so as most people use dvi to vga adapters


He said it doesn't work using his DVI input on his monitor, but it works using the VGA input on his monitor. His DVI cable might be bad.


----------



## Wile E (Aug 30, 2007)

Oh, and I forgot to mention, 

IT'S ALIIIIIIIIIIIIVVVVEEEEEE. [/Dr. Frankenstein]

Typing this from the 2900 right now.


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 30, 2007)

I doubt it man its not that old. 
I will do further testing on Saturday before I send it away on Monday but Wile E I doubt it but anything is possible!
I have a spair but it has more pins in it and I know there are two different types but do not know why!
I have been using the one that came with my lcd as that should be the right one for my lcd


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 30, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Oh, and I forgot to mention,
> 
> IT'S ALIIIIIIIIIIIIVVVVEEEEEE. [/Dr. Frankenstein]
> 
> Typing this from the 2900 right now.





Grats 

I'd have no idea why the HIS cards are prone to faliure though, its mysterious, the REV.2 cards are worse.


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 30, 2007)

Going to order a new board today the GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3P.
So I can start building new rig I will post pics as I go through with each part fitted.


----------



## imperialreign (Aug 30, 2007)

> Its a good cooler, however it takes three slots.... not two but THREE. Its that huge. It was designed to fit a whole spectrum of cards though, thus nearing clearance. I would go with the AcceleroX2 instead however, a smarter choice honestly.




Thanks for that - I didn't realize it was THAT big, good lord!  From the pics that CM has on their site, it looks like only 2 slots are needed - especially considering that it supposedly comes with a vented, dual slot PCI panel for the card.  But damn, considering how monstrous that is, unless I actually see performance numbers compared to the AX2, I think I'll defi go with Arctic Cooling instead!

Figured it couldn't hurt to ask on such a new component.




> IT'S ALIIIIIIIIIIIIVVVVEEEEEE. [/Dr. Frankenstein]



*IT'S FRAHNKEN-STEEN!!!*   glad to hear your 2900 survived that meltdown!


----------



## Wile E (Aug 31, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> *IT'S FRAHNKEN-STEEN!!!*


----------



## Widjaja (Aug 31, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Nah HIS screwed up the X1950PRO only. I would go with Sapphire though, they are happy to RMA if your card commits suicide, hey if you use headphones while you game, the stock cooler for the X1950PRO isnt THAT bad.



It is loud but if you have case fans you won't notice it that much.
The Sapphire model does get warm under load.
About 78deg is my maximum so far if your are concerned about temps.
Thats when the fan becomes loud.


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 31, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> It is loud but if you have case fans you won't notice it that much.
> The Sapphire model does get warm under load.
> About 78deg is my maximum so far if your are concerned about temps.
> Thats when the fan becomes loud.



That is why I will be getting a fan controller when I build this time to shut the case fans up a little bit I do believe they are running a bit harder than they need to be just plugged into to a molex.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 31, 2007)

78 Degrees is fine... nothing to chuck a fit under, unless you dont want your GPU failing in  four years time, 78 Degrees is pretty bad...my friend gets 70*C


----------



## grunt_408 (Aug 31, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> 78 Degrees is fine... nothing to chuck a fit under, unless you dont want your GPU failing in  four years time, 78 Degrees is pretty bad...my friend gets 70*C



I think the AGP ones get hotter!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




According to someone I know it has something to do with this.... But then again he might not know what he is on about??


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 31, 2007)

Anyway, hurry up and RMA. Even if it IS indeed that part, there is no use in discussing it.


----------



## grunt_408 (Sep 1, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Anyway, hurry up and RMA. Even if it IS indeed that part, there is no use in discussing it.



cheers


----------



## peach1971 (Sep 1, 2007)

Finally bought a PowerColor X1950 Pro 256MB yesterday.
Not OCed yet.






ATi Tray Tools 1.3.6.1042 Benchmark:
Catalyst 7.8 > 5983
Catalyst 7.7 > 5978
*Catalyst 7.5 > 6025*


----------



## grunt_408 (Sep 1, 2007)

^ Not 2 Shabby


----------



## peach1971 (Sep 1, 2007)

Yeah, that´s still the original case from my 1998´s OEM PIII Celeron.
 I love it to have all the hardware updates done in that same old shit.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 1, 2007)

lmao! Grab a new case, your X1950PRO will fry, yeah its cool/old skool but not fun when something dies. 

This case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119115

Cheap, yet VERY effective, has a lot of room to work with and very easy to keep tidy, throw the low price and practical design (grilled facade) into the equation and you've got a case that you should buy. 

Seriously, but it, i wouldnt put high end hardware in a case like that PIII one. (add a 120mm fan to the intake though).


----------



## peach1971 (Sep 1, 2007)

Nah, the rig is quietly running naked as pictured above. 
CPU 29°C idle, GPU 40°C idle.
It eats definitly not more dust than running with side walls.

I love that case because it´s so tiny!
Maybe I´ll grab a Lian Li once.


----------



## grunt_408 (Sep 1, 2007)

peach1971 said:


> Nah, the rig is quietly running naked as pictured above.
> CPU 29°C idle, GPU 40°C idle.
> It eats definitly not more dust than running with side walls.
> 
> ...



That is a suprise that it runs cool with all of them wires in there like a birds nest to keep the heat in!
If you got a new case then you could get one that takes dust filters then she wouldnt eat dust  at all.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Sep 2, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> cheers



lol. I agree hurry up and RMA that damn video card already.


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 2, 2007)

> Finally bought a PowerColor X1950 Pro 256MB yesterday.
> Not OCed yet.
> 
> 
> ...




beige case    I thought they were all extinct!  can't argue with those sys temps, though!!


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 2, 2007)

I agree lmao... wait do you leave the system with the cover off?


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Sep 2, 2007)

i think he does it also looks like there is no top so if there is no top the heat would go out of the top. Also someone said something about the wires. Where could he(or she) put them in that case?


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 2, 2007)

its a he. . I'd get a new case either way, and Lian LIs are not very practical. That case I chose, is really nice imho, no bullshit included.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Sep 2, 2007)

i like the case that you linked it looks nice and looks like it would have good air flow.I also think he would be better getting a new case.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 2, 2007)

exactly... the acceleroX2 wont run that cool without decent airflow, and how warm are those hdds!!


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 2, 2007)

yeah, that is a decent case, especially for that low price tag . . .

swap out the stock 120 fan for a better performing one, throw a 2nd one in the front of the case and I'm sure that rig will stay cool


----------



## grunt_408 (Sep 2, 2007)

p_o_s_pc said:


> lol. I agree hurry up and RMA that damn video card already.



FFS It has been sent.
I did what tk wanted
Stop hurting my feelings


----------



## Wile E (Sep 2, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> its a he. . I'd get a new case either way, and Lian LIs are not very practical. That case I chose, is really nice imho, no bullshit included.


What's wrong with Lian-Li cases? Their build quality far surpasses that of ANY of the sub $100 cases. You can stand on the damn things.


----------



## grunt_408 (Sep 2, 2007)

Wile E said:


> What's wrong with Lian-Li cases? Their build quality far surpasses that of ANY of the sub $100 cases. You can stand on the damn things.



Come in handy if you score with a really tall chick at the pub you could get her home and stand on it to make out!
Good if you are vertically challenged.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 2, 2007)

Lian LI cases are great, but im just saying, you can achieve the same performance with a lower price; CM 330 does the same as a PC7S, yeah if you have the money you'd go for lian li, but im putting value for money into the equation.


----------



## Wile E (Sep 2, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Lian LI cases are great, but im just saying, you can achieve the same performance with a lower price; CM 330 does the same as a PC7S, yeah if you have the money you'd go for lian li, but im putting value for money into the equation.


Oh, I see. I thought you were flat out dissin Lian Li cases. lol


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 5, 2007)

I just thought this thread could use a new post!!!


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 5, 2007)

^thats what you call spam


----------



## Darknova (Sep 5, 2007)

No, this is spam


----------



## grunt_408 (Sep 5, 2007)

Darknova said:


> No, this is spam


----------



## kardson (Sep 5, 2007)

My 1950 Fiasco.

HIS   H195PRQT512DDAN-R
I bought my 1950pro back in January of this year... It was the stock overclocked version.. 620core  1440 memory.. I loved that card.  Shortly after getting the card I started getting random lockups.  After reading peoples complaints I decided to take the cooler off. I applied some Artic silver 5 to the gpu after cleaning it off and used better thermal conductive padding on the VRMs where the connected to the heatsink.  Still I had random crashes, but not as often.  

Then about 1 month after this .. I took my pc over to a friends house where he keeps the house temp down to like 60f...(I keep mine at about 75f)  Well while over there I didn't have one lockup with my system!  So when I got home, I decided to UNDERclock my card 20mhz and sure enough that stopped the crashes..  I wasn't to happy with having paid a premium for a card that was stock overclocked... that I had to reduce the speed on it to run properly, but it was better than waiting 2-3weeks for a return.


Then 1 month ago the card's ICEQ 3 cooler's fan started rattling.  Turns out the bearing started to go bad.  I'm guessing it happened from me keeping it the fan 100% load. I finally had enough.. I decided to send the card back before it was to late.

After the card was returned I was told that the card had been discontinued, and I could either get my money back -$45 for depreciation. or they could send me a Gecube X 1950 XT AGP with the TEC cooler in its place... I took the Gecube.


I wish I had my benchmarks from the HIS 1950pro to compare to.. but I can say that the Gecube X1950 XT definately does 'feel' faster.
3dMark 05 score = 7048     3dMark 06 score = 4484
Running on  P4 630 (3.0ghz) 2gig DDR 400 memory   DFI Lanparty 875-pt motherboard

When I first got the card I noticed that the screws for the backplate were a little loose so I tightened each as much as I could to a reasonable amount (about 1 full turn).  The heatsink still feels a little loose though. The copper plate does not touch the pcb where the thermal paddings are placed.  Infact the only contact points touching are the center dimple and the screws....   Seems senseless to put thermal padding on the pcb if the copper plate wasn't meant to make contact..

Peak temps after running 3dmark 3 times in a row cap at about 75c when the card is overclocked to 675 core  1500memory.  Card throttles down and hits 50c pretty quick after ending the benchmark..

The drivers for this card are also a mess... I finally was able to settle in with the ATI 7.7 drivers and left the Catalyst control panel off .. using ATI Tray Tools instead. 

Whats really un-nerving is the fact the way the card throttles up.  If you play any games in windowed mode they card does not recognize that as a 3d environment thus it never throttles up to its full potential.  And on occasion you need to reboot your pc for it to throttle up in Full Screen 3d games too.  Since the Bios says its set to 499core and 599 memory thats what it reports to futuremark.. 

My next test tonight will be to stop using the hotkey puller via the ATI overdrive 3 and to use the built in overclocking utility in ATI Tray Tools and setup Game/ application profiles to see if I can make it run at full speed in windowed mode.  Though honestly the only game I run in windowed is WOW.. so its not a HUGE deal.

it is also listed as a X1950 card (no xt or pro or xtx).. unlike my old X1950 Pro which showed up as a X 1950 pro...  not sure why this is other than the fact geforce is usning a non standard method to make the card.. which would explain why they are the old one to have a 1950 XT in the agp variaty... (Anyone taken the card apart?  what is the GPU lasered as?)

Next is the mass amount of HEAT this thing puts out... I mean MY GOD!   My system temps have jumped 15f degrees.  my Case window nearest to the back of my pc is hot to the touch even when the system is idle....  Anyone know if the Peltier is always on and this is where the heat is coming from?.. or is the gpu just that hot at idle?....  I just assumed the Peltier would only kick on when needed..    Sooo,  now I'm thinking about drilling another hole near the bottom of the side-window to put in a 80mm exaust fan for the heat from the card.. 


Pros-  FAST FAST card for agp

Cons-  Heat Output into case is HIGH.
          Driver installation horrible - Recommend  ATI driver 7.7 w/ RivaTuner or Ati Tray tools
          GPU throttling system poorly setup


----------



## Darknova (Sep 5, 2007)

My XT only shows up as X1950 Series...don't worry about it.


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 6, 2007)

> Whats really un-nerving is the fact the way the card throttles up. If you play any games in windowed mode they card does not recognize that as a 3d environment thus it never throttles up to its full potential. And on occasion you need to reboot your pc for it to throttle up in Full Screen 3d games too. Since the Bios says its set to 499core and 599 memory thats what it reports to futuremark..



as best that I know, most ATi cards have 2D/3D clocks programmed in the BIOS (I believe that listed clocks are for 3D mode only - not really sure on that though), and the card will only switch to 3D clocks in full-screen mode - hence, why it appears to not be running fast with a window open.  Opening ATi Tool, I believe, immediately puts the GPU into 3D mode, which will affect speeds in a window . . . here, if your willing, download this HDR program and run it in windowed mode, then open ATi Tool and you should notice your FPS go up.


----------



## Widjaja (Sep 6, 2007)

Yet another HIS X1950pro doing the dodgys.
Maybe tk was on to something with these cards.
Craigleberry was another but his was artifacting.
Pity I reckon they look pretty good.

Anyway
I don't know if anyone has had this happen to them.
I had system restored my PC and a folder called ATI(2) popped up in local disk C.
This folder made my rig stutter/lag when gaming.

Of course I removed it and now it works perfectly.


----------



## grunt_408 (Sep 6, 2007)

Mine was artifacting initially and then it just cracked the sads totaly. I cant wait till it gets back from RMA so I cant sell it and buy a hd2900

Edit My avatar could eat your Avatar lol


----------



## Wile E (Sep 6, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Mine was artifacting initially and then it just cracked the sads totaly. I cant wait till it gets back from RMA so I cant sell it and buy a hd2900
> 
> Edit My avatar could eat your Avatar lol


Speaking of your avatar, do you rotate that thing everyday? lol


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 6, 2007)

kardson said:


> My 1950 Fiasco.
> 
> HIS   H195PRQT512DDAN-R
> I bought my 1950pro back in January of this year... It was the stock overclocked version.. 620core  1440 memory.. I loved that card.  Shortly after getting the card I started getting random lockups.  After reading peoples complaints I decided to take the cooler off. I applied some Artic silver 5 to the gpu after cleaning it off and used better thermal conductive padding on the VRMs where the connected to the heatsink.  Still I had random crashes, but not as often.
> ...



First of all, i would like to point something out. What power supply are you using anyway? Lockups usually mean a bad PSU and NOT a bad GPU. Moreover, the X1950PRO is a COOL card, I dont know how you came to grips with saying that it runs hot; its misleading ya know?

Moreover, 7.7 Drivers, seriously! 7.7 Drivers = biggest FAIL, they have so many issues, get with the times , use the 7.8s instead. 

Anyway, yes the X1950XT RUNS HOT. ESPECIALLY the GeCube, the Gecube's cooler SUCKS. It works fine until the retention clips lose their strength, I would immediately remove that cooler and replace it with something like a VF900 or a VF1000!


----------



## grunt_408 (Sep 7, 2007)

I might add my 2 bobs worth and say that the AGP X1950's do run too hot.


----------



## Widjaja (Sep 7, 2007)

Talking to someone with the Sapphire X1950pro 512mb agp Rev.2
He has posted his load temps and they are impressive compared to the Rev1 model.

Rev1 max on average is 76deg.
Rev2 max on average is 48deg.

Although he is using Rivatuner, I don't know if that is giving false readings but then again the Rev2 cooler does actually have a VRM heatsink this time.


----------



## mitsirfishi (Sep 7, 2007)

here is a safe crossfire run on my x1950 pro's for the moment will push further soon when i get my arctic s1 back on my card  as my asus card has been playing up but it was just a matter of crazy clocks


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 8, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> Talking to someone with the Sapphire X1950pro 512mb agp Rev.2
> He has posted his load temps and they are impressive compared to the Rev1 model.
> 
> Rev1 max on average is 76deg.
> ...



Yeah REV2 that recently was released has a better cooler.


----------



## zekrahminator (Sep 8, 2007)

You'll be getting a new member to your clubhouse in a little less than a week, TK, look at what what I'm getting .


----------



## grunt_408 (Sep 8, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Speaking of your avatar, do you rotate that thing everyday? lol



Sorta change it as she grows.


----------



## grunt_408 (Sep 8, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> here is a safe crossfire run on my x1950 pro's for the moment will push further soon when i get my arctic s1 back on my card  as my asus card has been playing up but it was just a matter of crazy clocks



Has your wallpaper got clothes on its a little hard to tell with your 3d mark results on her.


----------



## Kursah (Sep 8, 2007)

Nice OC on that card mitsirfishy! My Core doesn't like going above 621...I've had it at 628, but it won't do it for long...


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 8, 2007)

Haven't been able to get my card to break 620, either . . .

don't the 1950 PRO's need to be modded to break the 625 core clock?


----------



## mitsirfishi (Sep 8, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> Haven't been able to get my card to break 620, either . . .
> 
> don't the 1950 PRO's need to be modded to break the 625 core clock?



not they dont have to be modded to go 625 core my HIS card will do 655 on stock volts my asus one is at 1.45v currently at 641 dont know wheather to go above 1.5v or not  to see if i can get more core on my s1 with 2 120 fans 

Craigleberry she has the bear minimal on why did you want to see ?  go on www.skins.be and go to keeley hazzell


----------



## grunt_408 (Sep 8, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> not they dont have to be modded to go 625 core my HIS card will do 655 on stock volts my asus one is at 1.45v currently at 641 dont know wheather to go above 1.5v or not  to see if i can get more core on my s1 with 2 120 fans
> 
> Craigleberry she has the bear minimal on why did you want to see ?  go on www.skins.be and go to keeley hazzell



Hey I am a bloke of course I wanted to see. lol


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 9, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> not they dont have to be modded to go 625 core my HIS card will do 655 on stock volts my asus one is at 1.45v currently at 641 dont know wheather to go above 1.5v or not  to see if i can get more core on my s1 with 2 120 fans
> 
> Craigleberry she has the bear minimal on why did you want to see ?  go on www.skins.be and go to keeley hazzell



hmmm . . . maybe it's just the stock ATi Pro voltage, then - I can't change my card voltage, I don;'t even think RaBit supports it . . .  As soon as I can get a GPU cooler, I'm going to see how much further I can push this card . . .


----------



## mitsirfishi (Sep 9, 2007)

i might try slackening the timmings on my cards see if i can get further on my memory ;P


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## Wile E (Sep 9, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> i might try slackening the timmings on my cards see if i can get further on my memory ;P


Well, slackening your timings will reduce performance. You might gain some MHz, but performance likely won't increase.

For instance, on my 2900, mem timings automatically loosen past 1000MHz. With my mem set to 999MHz, I get better performance vs my mem set at 1040MHz.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 10, 2007)

Damn my X1950PRO doesnt like to be overclocked, 621 sees artifacts... ATI Overdrive doesnt work properly as well... and ATI TOOL = FAIL. I dont know why W1zzard hasnt gotten the X1950PRO to work with ATI Tool, its seriously....lazy?


----------



## erocker (Sep 10, 2007)

Why don't you get it to work smarty-pants?  Seriously though, have you tried .27beta#1?


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## tkpenalty (Sep 10, 2007)

.27 Beta? Instant crash man.


----------



## mitsirfishi (Sep 10, 2007)

i use the beta 2 for my his card because with my asus card it crashes but i use rivatuner for my other card 2.03 works a treat


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## imperialreign (Sep 12, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Damn my X1950PRO doesnt like to be overclocked, 621 sees artifacts... ATI Overdrive doesnt work properly as well... and ATI TOOL = FAIL. I dont know why W1zzard hasnt gotten the X1950PRO to work with ATI Tool, its seriously....lazy?



I haven't been able to get my core to pass 621, either - VPU recover has saved me from many a BSoD in this instance.

Highest I've gotten my mem is 729.  It's not just ATiTool .27b2 - ATi Tray Tools runs into the same artifact/crashing at the same timings.

I've gotten the feeling that the card or BIOS might have to be modded/tweaked to go higher


----------



## craigo (Sep 12, 2007)

um, hi, can i join this club?..im not in any clubs..i have x1950 pros in crossfire.

vf900 coolers,bios modded 655/709pcie lanes @ 105mhz 512mb xpertvisions


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## Widjaja (Sep 12, 2007)

craigo said:


> um, hi, can i join this club?..im not in any clubs..i have x1950 pros in crossfire.
> 
> vf900 coolers,bios modded 655/709pcie lanes @ 105mhz 512mb xpertvisions



I'm sure he will.
While your'e here add some benches in the X1950 vs 7900 thread.
There's one dude whose given a score with a CF setup, should be interesting to see a comparison.


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 13, 2007)

hey, Kurs, TK . . . anyone break that 621 core yet?

I also wanted to bring this to light, as it might be an unknown issue still . . . the other night I was poking around in my case with an IR temp gun, just getting ballpark figures of component temps.  At 601/729, as best I could tell, the GPU was only running at about 50C (+/-) 3C, a bit warm, but not too bad considering I've got two fans blownin full boogey on it - but what did concern me is all the capacitors at the end of the card on the neweer PCB designs.  







The average temp I pulled from all of them was *63C (+/-) 3C *(IR temp guns aren't 100% accurate)!  Now, between the airflow through the stock cooler that's blowing directly on them, and the airflow from my front case fan, I would imagine they should stay closer in range of the rest of the board, but not so.  I'm thinkin, seeing as how the SSB is right underneath this section of the VGA, that I'm going to install a chipset cooler over the SSB, hopefully that will help blow some of the heat off the capacitors.


Recently, with my rig running about all day OC, I would notice I'd get odd and somewhat unusual visual effects in certain 3D programs (most noticeably 3DMark06, 05).  In certain sections of certain graphics tests, the screen would go to . . . inverse colors, best I can describe it; but only during certain tests (Cannon Flight more frequently).  Nd it seemed that if I gave the system 5 min to cool a little bit, the color range be displayed would change, albeit still inverse - and it would cut in and out from normal colors to inverse.

But, I think I'll need to come up with some kind of cooling soultion for this area of my card - I truly hope this card isn't damaged just yet . . .


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 14, 2007)

The capacitors are rated to run at around those temps so i wouldnt worry. Those capacitors arent the reason why your GPU is artifacting. Its the fact that the X1950PRO is one of the worst overclocking cards (yay for a 3mhz overclock...). No parts are damaged so dont worry about that as well.

However to people who plan to buy an X1950PRO and then eventually overclock it-forget about overclocking, new driver releases are what will give you better peformance. If you love overclocking you could spend money on a 7900GS instead which is cheaper and use a VF900CU which would give superior peformance once overclocked.


_May I stress that this is NOT a fanclub guys, this is a support group. Members who intend to take sides be WARNED, im sort of sick of the amount of ativsnvidiabullshit._


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## grunt_408 (Sep 14, 2007)

Come on what did nvidia do to you lol


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 14, 2007)

> May I stress that this is NOT a fanclub guys, this is a support group. Members who intend to take sides be WARNED, im sort of sick of the amount of ativsnvidiabullshit.



not to disrespect you or any other members here - but I've been an avid ATi supporter for years, and that will (probably) never change.  Although, I'm not one that will recommend to everyone to go out and snag any old ATi card 'cause _"at least it ain't nVidia!"_ - I recommend based on their stated needs.  It's up to each individual person to conclude for themself which product would be better, and hopefully they'll be able to make a more informed decision.  We all know that there does tend to be more nVidia fanboism out there, at least on the part of various publishers.  Not saying there isn't ATi fanbois, not by a long shot.

But, this is just my personal stance between the two; I've had really horrible experiences dealing with nVidia before, and sound tech support from ATi - but this is just me, I'm sure others are different.



. . . although, to look at the other end of the tunnel - a forum dedicated to only the X1000's lineup and the HD2k's line up is going to turn out the fanbois and ATi supporters - probably the reason quite a few of us bought an ATi product in the first place . . .


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## Scrizz (Sep 14, 2007)

can I join the club?
I have a Sapphire x1950gt 256 AGP


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## tkpenalty (Sep 14, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> not to disrespect you or any other members here - but I've been an avid ATi supporter for years, and that will (probably) never change.  Although, I'm not one that will recommend to everyone to go out and snag any old ATi card 'cause _"at least it ain't nVidia!"_ - I recommend based on their stated needs.  It's up to each individual person to conclude for themself which product would be better, and hopefully they'll be able to make a more informed decision.  We all know that there does tend to be more nVidia fanboism out there, at least on the part of various publishers.  Not saying there isn't ATi fanbois, not by a long shot.
> 
> But, this is just my personal stance between the two; I've had really horrible experiences dealing with nVidia before, and sound tech support from ATi - but this is just me, I'm sure others are different.
> 
> ...



No what I meant was that I dont want fanboy wars going on...

By Craigo and Scrizz added. Err sorry if I seem pissy or something but i dont need someone talking for me 



Craigleberry said:


> Come on what did nvidia do to you lol



Read... Im not taking sides man . In fact I want a 8800GTS 320MB atm but...the driver issues just make me stick with my X1950PRO instead.


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## imperialreign (Sep 14, 2007)

Ohhhhh!  Gotcha!

Sorry bout that, been a long day at work and thought you somehow misunderstood my post as some form of fanboism!

S'all good!


----------



## Scrizz (Sep 14, 2007)

thx


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## Waldoinsc (Sep 15, 2007)

*X1950xt crossfire (ie x1950xtx)*

3DConnect X1950XT CF, err... x1950xtx...well, its the R580+ with GDDR4.  Anyhow...what's the best aftermarket cooler for this card? I want to get rid of the leafblower it came with.

I have it mounted in a small formfactor, so the cooler cannot extend above the top of the card or the card won't fit.  Any suggestions?


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 15, 2007)

err, you are pretty much out of options mate... a VF900CU isnt a very great solution since it wont take that much heat and an Accelero....is too tall. Actually, buy the accelero, then remove the black plastic shroud (and fan that hangs off the side) and bolt two 80mm fans onto it, covering all the fins, it has been shown it runs roughly 10~15*C Cooler in this this setup. Like from 70*C Load to 60*C load, something like that, in this setup it kills a VF900CU.


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## imperialreign (Sep 16, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> err, you are pretty much out of options mate... a VF900CU isnt a very great solution since it wont take that much heat and an Accelero....is too tall. Actually, buy the accelero, then remove the black plastic shroud (and fan that hangs off the side) and bolt two 80mm fans onto it, covering all the fins, it has been shown it runs roughly 10~15*C Cooler in this this setup. Like from 70*C Load to 60*C load, something like that, in this setup it kills a VF900CU.



I gotta keep that in mind after I snag an AX2 

got a little held up on that purchase - I bought the new mobo and had a completel brainfart forgetting that Intel board only supported DDR while the ASUS uses DDR2 - man I felt stoopid!  Opened the box, pulled out the board, lokoed at the slots . . . "G*Ditt!!"  So had to dump another $150 on 2Gb.  Oh well . . . just a little oversight!

BTW - anyone know what kind of GDDR3 timings work well on the 1950 Pros? I'm thinking about trying to tweak some of the timings, but I've got to use RaBit and flash the BIOS for each change.  The mobo BIOS has a lot of tweaks for the PCI-E slots, along with the other sys components - jut trying to get everything to work as fluid as possible, y'know?


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 16, 2007)

nope... they kill peformance easily.


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## Scrizz (Sep 16, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> nope... they kill peformance easily.



?


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 16, 2007)

Scrizz said:


> ?



loosesning the timings.


----------



## erocker (Sep 16, 2007)

I'm starting to wonder when they are going to start putting xt cores into pro boards like they used to?  With the card being discontinued soon hopefully we will see some.


----------



## Scrizz (Sep 16, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> loosesning the timings.



ok 

yah i hope they start putting xt cores in pros


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## tkpenalty (Sep 16, 2007)

err that wont ever happen. Considering the fact that the X1950XT draws much more power in comparison, you cannot run it on the same PCB whatsoever, and besides... let it die , R580+s are different to RV570s anyway... I assume they use a different socket as well.


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## imperialreign (Sep 16, 2007)

> I assume they use a different socket as well.



more than likely . . . although, are the GPU's even removable from their socket?  I mean, when I had taken the stock cooler off just to have a look at the GPU, you can easily see the socket base, but it didn't look like it was removable at all.  Prob wouldn't make a difference, anyhow - it's not like you can go GPU swapping like you can a CPU.


----------



## Wile E (Sep 16, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> more than likely . . . although, are the GPU's even removable from their socket?  I mean, when I had taken the stock cooler off just to have a look at the GPU, you can easily see the socket base, but it didn't look like it was removable at all.  Prob wouldn't make a difference, anyhow - it's not like you can go GPU swapping like you can a CPU.


No, they're soldered on.


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## imperialreign (Sep 16, 2007)

> No, they're soldered on.



That doesn't surprise me!   I woulda figured they'd do something like that - all though, I must say, they leave it looking quite the opposite!!



> nope... they kill peformance easily.



I was wanting to tighten the timings a little.  Actually, I went ahead and did such, and recieved quite a surprise!  Here:

before tweaking, 3DMark06 at defaults: 4039
after tweaking, 3DMark06 at defaults: 4429

quite a jump, I'd say!!  I wasn't expecting that tightening up the timings on the GDDR would yield such an improvement!  I think I'm going to go ahead and experiment with these timings a little more!


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## erocker (Sep 16, 2007)

They'll have plenty of leftover dx9 parts.  I'm sure something will happen Tk... It always does.


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## erocker (Sep 16, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> That doesn't surprise me!   I woulda figured they'd do something like that - all though, I must say, they leave it looking quite the opposite!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice man!!!


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 16, 2007)

erocker said:


> They'll have plenty of leftover dx9 parts.  I'm sure something will happen Tk... It always does.



Probably, but it wont work. RV580 has no chance of working on the X1950PRO's PCB. It will still be sold as a X1950XT but at a very low price. Still, if you say that, then why are they still selling X800GTOs? Left over probably, but when i got my second 9550 (first one had shitty memory), it was manufactured only a month earlier, and this was in late 2006 (one odd thing though... i remember joining TPU the year before).


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## tkpenalty (Sep 16, 2007)

Far out... after flashing it with a stock bios.... the fan still makes a buzzing noise.. wtf? What the hell do i do now T_T. Some reason the plastic shroud doesnt budge as well, i cant seem to remove it. Err help guys? T_T.


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## Siluro (Sep 16, 2007)

The X1600Pro core won't overclock more than 621 either. I think it's some limitation on RV5x0 cores in general.


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## Waldoinsc (Sep 16, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> err, you are pretty much out of options mate... a VF900CU isnt a very great solution since it wont take that much heat and an Accelero....is too tall. Actually, buy the accelero, then remove the black plastic shroud (and fan that hangs off the side) and bolt two 80mm fans onto it, covering all the fins, it has been shown it runs roughly 10~15*C Cooler in this this setup. Like from 70*C Load to 60*C load, something like that, in this setup it kills a VF900CU.



Thanks for the mod to the mod idea...sounds like it'll work. Gotta get an Accelero.


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## imperialreign (Sep 16, 2007)

> I was wanting to tighten the timings a little. Actually, I went ahead and did such, and recieved quite a surprise! Here:
> 
> before tweaking, 3DMark06 at defaults: 4039
> after tweaking, 3DMark06 at defaults: 4429
> ...




well, so far, tightening the DRAM timings a little seems to yield more of an improvement than adjusting them a whole lot.  It also appears that the tighter timings show a better response at stock clocks than with the core/mem at even a 5% OC.  For example, at default timings but running 614/742 I pulled 4324 in 3M06, but using tighter timings at that same OC, I only saw 4325.

Somehow, though, this doesn't seem to surprise me all that much - that tweaking the DRAM timings gives better results than OCing.  Although, I get the feeling that there is that 'sweet spot' where just the right timing to overclock ratio will show even better results - now just to find it . . .

I'm still going to mess with things a bit more later, as of now my rig is getting a tick warm and the results are starting to suffer from it.


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## tkpenalty (Sep 17, 2007)

Siluro said:


> The X1600Pro core won't overclock more than 621 either. I think it's some limitation on RV5x0 cores in general.



Yeah... it is. 5xx cores will need voltage mods any speed higher than 621... HIS are premodded with higher voltages for their rev.1 iceQ III turbo.


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## Autiem Sel (Sep 17, 2007)

Hi, I have overclocked my his x1950pro agp to 614/783 and scored 5612 on 3dmark06.
Is this a decent score for my setup?
However, other similar systems were scoring ~9000 with slower cpu/gpu clocks, and wondered how they are achieving this. Could these systems be running in crossfire though not listed in their specs?


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## tkpenalty (Sep 17, 2007)

Yes they have to be.


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## Autiem Sel (Sep 18, 2007)

Urr seems obvious now, cheers.

Is it just the HIS x1950 that has trouble with gpu overclocking? (in fact I had to downclock mine) ...as I noticed others were getting 650-660. Would these be other brand x1950s or is there a way the HIS card could be pushed that far?


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## imperialreign (Sep 18, 2007)

Sending out the new mobo tomorrow for an RMA 

Oh well . . . gonna put together the eMachines rig (which will be my secondary work horse), throw the old Intel mobo back in that case, set up the MCE OS . . . not much to OC or tweak with, though 

But, I do have a couple of old ATi cards laying around I'm going to see if I can't OC the crap out of - first off will be this VisionTek Radeon X1300, carrying an impressive 512MB GDDR2, clocks at 450/533.  I'm curious as to how far I can push that card.

Next on my hit list is an even older ATi Radeon X700 PRO, packing 256MB GDDR3 and clocks set at 425/432.  I kinda get the feeling this card will end up surprising me (during it's previous installation, I managed a near about 15% OC easily, without any major jumps in the card's temps).




hey, I gotta find ways to entertain myself until my mobo gets back, right?!!


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 18, 2007)

Autiem Sel said:


> Urr seems obvious now, cheers.
> 
> Is it just the HIS x1950 that has trouble with gpu overclocking? (in fact I had to downclock mine) ...as I noticed others were getting 650-660. Would these be other brand x1950s or is there a way the HIS card could be pushed that far?



Rev.1 were proper, rev.2 = full of problems. Guess what my X1950PRO Extreme only oc's properly for 3 mhz...


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 18, 2007)

I want a 8800GTS320MB.... except nvidia.... FIX UP THAT DRIVER ISSUE . Thats the only thing that stops me from buying it (hey dudes... im not going to make a 8 series clubhouse, for anyone who thinks im being "disloyal").


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## grunt_408 (Sep 18, 2007)

This is no way related to the topic you are discussing but I just wanna say WOOO HOOO My Replacement X1950 Pro is on the way! Too bad the guy wouldnt exchange it for a PCI-E So I will sell it on flea bay.


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## tkpenalty (Sep 18, 2007)

LOL.... mmm... Grab yourself a GA P955/P35 DS3 mate.... it will do you heaps more.


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## grunt_408 (Sep 18, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> LOL.... mmm... Grab yourself a GA P955/P35 DS3 mate.... it will do you heaps more.



I have a nice new GA-P35-DS3P (rev 1.1) sitting ....waiting calling out my name telling me to put a q6600 and some good ram and a HD2900 xt in her. Mmmmm nice


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## tkpenalty (Sep 18, 2007)

very nice . Chuck in a E4500 and you will be fine.


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## grunt_408 (Sep 18, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> very nice . Chuck in a E4500 and you will be fine.



Reality is biting me a little and I have to think of my back pocket...
So I may go with a e6750
And a Saphire X1950 gt (which I cant find on flea bay in the 512 mb)


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## tkpenalty (Sep 18, 2007)

No... E4500 = 11x multi, E6750 = 8x multi but 333 fsb. Overall the E4500 will be easier to overclock.


----------



## Wile E (Sep 18, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> No... E4500 = 11x multi, E6750 = 8x multi but 333 fsb. Overall the E4500 will be easier to overclock.


But the 6750 has more L2 Cache, and he has a P35 board, so I don't think clocking will be a problem. Even if he only hits 450fsb, that's still 3.6GHz.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 18, 2007)

true.. bit E4500 costs way less.


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## Wile E (Sep 18, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> true.. bit E4500 costs way less.


lol. True


----------



## Widjaja (Sep 18, 2007)

Yeah I've seen some strange scores in 3dmark.
1# scored something like 6712cpu marks with the exact same CPU as I have in 05 then goes and gets lower CPU marks in 06 at the same clock speeds.
but in 06 his 3Dmark was way high and yet he's has the lower clocks than I have.
Infact too high for any 580/702 1950pro.

This certain chap also listed his mark 3times in 06 so he is in first second and third.

Update:-
Just realized he has a CF setup.
Didn't know DFI made a motherboard with CF for 939's
He's getting over 7000 in every run.

But as proven in the X1950pro vs 7900GS database.
C2D with 1950pro in CF gets over 9000.

Around the same marks as my bro's 8800GTX under vista ultimate.


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## tkpenalty (Sep 18, 2007)

C2Ds increase in perf isnt linear, with clockspeed increases. C2Ds are indeed faster than the K8s by a fair bit, i mean AMD had to down the pricetag of their 6000+ since the E6600 costed cheaper, and matched the peformance of the 6000+. K8 is old anyway... 

That would explain the results widjaja.


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## grunt_408 (Sep 18, 2007)

Well I do not know a thing about Overclocking and I do not want to attemt it just in case I fry the thing.
I am going to order a E6750 me thinks. 
At least I will have a good setup that will be capable of playing all of my games and NO bottleneck!


----------



## Wile E (Sep 18, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Well I do not know a thing about Overclocking and I do not want to attemt it just in case I fry the thing.
> I am going to order a E6750 me thinks.
> At least I will have a good setup that will be capable of playing all of my games and NO bottleneck!


It's only a matter of time until we talk you into overclocking. lol


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 18, 2007)

> At least I will have a good setup that will be capable of playing all of my games and NO bottleneck!



That's what I'm working towards right now - but have to RMA the board  - either way, the only thing really holding the rig back is that 524, but that'll be taken care of beginning of next year (http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=39772.  If all goes well, when I get my tax returns back next year, if I don't have any obligations, that money will go towards 2 HD2k's to replace my 1950 PRO - xFire here I come, and on a C2E, too


----------



## mitsirfishi (Sep 19, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> Yeah I've seen some strange scores in 3dmark.
> 1# scored something like 6712cpu marks with the exact same CPU as I have in 05 then goes and gets lower CPU marks in 06 at the same clock speeds.
> but in 06 his 3Dmark was way high and yet he's has the lower clocks than I have.
> Infact too high for any 580/702 1950pro.
> ...




*cough* so can amd's get over 9k in 06 with x1950pro's in cf  ive done it not a problem 

9.3k at 3.45ghz and cards running oc'ed i think i might be trying crossfire again 2moro in a c2d and ill tell you what the results are people e6600

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=25995 there look at the xfire setups notice im 4th  but highest x1950pro cf setup ive seen on tpu its going to get higher with a few hardware updates shortly i might be able to break the 10k barrier with my pro's but we will have to see yet


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 19, 2007)

> But as proven in the X1950pro vs 7900GS database.
> C2D with 1950pro in CF gets over 9000.



and 1950 Pro's on P4's get creamed by the 7900's.  Even with my 25% OC of 3.85, I'm still bout near bottom rung in all benchmarks.  My FSB is still too low, and I can't raise it much further just yet.  Multiplier is locked at x23


----------



## mitsirfishi (Sep 19, 2007)

dont worry ive tried a single x1950pro on a p4 550 even at 4.25ghz it falls way behind bearly touchs the 16k barrier in 03  under 10k in 05 and 06 id rather not say because it makes the x1950pro sound shameful but you get the picture


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 19, 2007)

I hear it - I don't understand what it is about the P4's . . . so far 4616 is the highest I've "earned" in 3m06 - which for a P4 X1950 PRO ain't bad, IMHO - and I think I might be able to get it a little higher after I get my mobo back, but I doubt I'll ever hit the 5k mark with a P4.

anyhow, have you by any chance run across a v-mod for the new 1950Pro's PCB's that use capacitors in place of the VRM's?  After I snag a better cooler, I was wanting to push this card further, but info is hard to find.


----------



## mitsirfishi (Sep 19, 2007)

p4's where like as much failure as the geforce fx5xxx series i know owners are going to hate me ;P have you tried editing by bios and raising it like that  ive seen one for the x1950gt which is the same 

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2434628

bottem of page...


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## imperialreign (Sep 19, 2007)

I believe the PCB's are similar, but I think the 512MB boards are a bit different of a setup than hte 256MB PCB.  I don't have the lines of mosfets on the back of the card, either.

I've messed with the BIOS some, but only with the DRAM timings.  RaBit doesn't recognize a voltage table in the BIOS, not sure if it's locked or something.  I considered trying a BIOS from a similar 256MB card (like a Sapphire or HIS) that has the v-table accessable, and see if that works.  It's worth a shot . . .

I've heard these cards are overvolt protected, though, and that needs to be defeated before vmodding.  I might be wrong, though . . .


----------



## mitsirfishi (Sep 19, 2007)

yes you could try my asus one


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## imperialreign (Sep 19, 2007)

your card has the capacitors in place of the VRMs, right?  More than willing - although, I can't try it out till after I get my P5W mobo back  

I'm not willing to swap all my hardware to a smaller, bottlenecked mobo.  I'm running on the workhorse right now.


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## mitsirfishi (Sep 19, 2007)

http://files.filefront.com/asus+x1950pro+640+by820+1nbin/;8587714;/fileinfo.html

there is my bios dump of one of my cards other his is on one of the other threads but has no voltage options on the his one


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## imperialreign (Sep 19, 2007)

cool!  I appreciate it, man!  I'll go ahead and try it as soon as I can.


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## grunt_408 (Sep 19, 2007)

Wile E said:


> It's only a matter of time until we talk you into overclocking. lol



It is taking me ages to get the parts together.. 
I have a WD 320 Sata2 HDD coming
Sata Asus DVD Burner coming.
Then the c2d 
Then the X1950 512mb
Then call micro$oft to re activate windowz.
I am too scared to Overclock I blew up (fried cpu) my very first build AMD 2700+
I was mucking around in the bios with the voltages and cranked it up too far me thinks after that no post no dispaly nothing. I was pretty peeved at the time as I only built a week before.


----------



## Widjaja (Sep 19, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> *cough* so can amd's get over 9k in 06 with x1950pro's in cf  ive done it not a problem



LOL!
Wonder why I thought you had a C2D. . . .
I was refering to your bench in my previous post saying you had a C2D.

I think my bro OC'd his E6600 to 2.9 and scored over 9800 with his GTX in vista ultimate.
Yep it's still a resource hog.


----------



## grunt_408 (Sep 19, 2007)

Hey Widjaja  have you had any issues with your x1950?


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 19, 2007)

It should work. Generic X1950PRO bioses usually are what you should use though.


----------



## Widjaja (Sep 19, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Hey Widjaja  have you had any issues with your x1950?



No graphical issues.
Just performance issues in some games, not with frames but with subtle pausing when something comes into view or when alot of sturctures are being rendered at one time can cause pausing.

Otherwise the card has been fine, of course runs hot as Rev.1 Sapphire X1950pros do but I don't overclock the card.
Everything is stock including settings.
Gets to 78deg easy in stalker and NFSC, only time I can hear the fan kicking into gear.
Other games get the card to 76deg.
Idling at 50deg at the moment, usually 45 or less but it's getting to summer over here and room temps are a fair few degrees higher than usual, my CPU temps are up a couple of degrees too.

Never know the future though.


----------



## grunt_408 (Sep 19, 2007)

Reason I ask is that I am thinking of getting the PCIE version. Maybe even two of em


----------



## Widjaja (Sep 19, 2007)

Well Sapphire do have thier rep to uphold and they don't have a problem with RMA's.
I have had a chat with one guy owning a Rev2 X1950pro (has 1950GT cooler and vrm h/s) and his temps reached 48deg max in one game although somewhere in this forum someone has a rev2 card but it doesn't seem to have the separate heatsink for the VRMs the rev2 usually has and is saying the cooling is no better than the rev1 card.

I might stick to Sapphire with my next rig.
Just going to keep this one until I can get my hands on an AMD phenom setup for a good price if it pwns the newer intel chips.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 19, 2007)

Sapphires are great guys... the new ones at least. Craig, you WILL get the REV.2 these days, it is unlikely you will find any REV.1 cards remaining. Sapphire's X1950PROs are hotcakes (haha pun). 

Widjaja, the X1950GT is DIFFERENT to the X1950PRO. X1950GT uses capacitors instead of VRM chips. Moreover it uses an inferior cooler. Craigle, grab the two X1950PROs from sapphire, if you upgrade the cooling i can tell you WILL get a good overclock. Sapphire is Tier 1.


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 20, 2007)

> It should work. Generic X1950PRO bioses usually are what you should use though.



Curious . . . was that aimed at my conversation?


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 20, 2007)

Yes it was


----------



## grunt_408 (Sep 20, 2007)

I got my Card back from RMA today I am not gonna O/C or anything as It's getting sold. They sent me a brand new one.


----------



## Widjaja (Sep 20, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Widjaja, the X1950GT is DIFFERENT to the X1950PRO. X1950GT uses capacitors instead of VRM chips. Moreover it uses an inferior cooler. Craigle, grab the two X1950PROs from sapphire, if you upgrade the cooling i can tell you WILL get a good overclock. Sapphire is Tier 1.



TK checkout the pic of tigger's X1950pro.
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=39338&page=7
No heatsink or no VRMs on this pro?
Cooler looks alot like the GT's.

Craigle,
Yeah I don't think you can go wrong with Sapphire's latest editions as long as they're X1950pros or XT/X's or a HD2900XT.
Actually how much more would one 2900XT cost than two X1950pro's over in Aus?
Prices are a bit steeper over here and is sometimes cheaper buying from Aus.


----------



## grunt_408 (Sep 20, 2007)

I can get x1950 pro saphire 256mb for 250.00 aus 
I can get hd2900 xt for around 550.00 aus
I cant find any PCIE Saphire's with 512mb
I was going to get a 2900 but funds have just about reached the limit.
I hate money you can never get enough of it! Niether can my ex missus! 
Thanks for the advice coz when it comes to this sort of thing I always seem to get the crap.


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 21, 2007)

> Yes it was



Thought so, just wanted to make sure cause it seemed like such an odd post admidst all the others back there


----------



## Widjaja (Sep 21, 2007)

I don't think there's only a few fps improvement with the 512, although having more vram is supposed to make the card handle higher res too.
Ex'es and money, fortunatley for me I haven't come across any leeches.
Last one was only good in the sack.
Had nothing in common and was like a mute when my mates came over so I had to send her packing.
Anyway. . . .

My next upgrade will be either a evga 8800GTS or a Sapphire HD2900XT.
I mean my bro's evga8800GTX is just overkill so far and his rig still pauses in games like Stalker and Oblivion.

Is it me or are the locations on the map for stalker really crap.
I go to the destination and the people I'm supposed to meet aren't even there sometimes.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 21, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> TK checkout the pic of tigger's X1950pro.
> http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=39338&page=7
> No heatsink or no VRMs on this pro?
> Cooler looks alot like the GT's.
> ...



Rev.1 PRO, crappy aluminium fin cooler.





Rev.2 X1950GT/PRO = 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Rev.3 PRO = Same cooler (visually, more copper), except aluminium heatsink where capacitors and choke coil is located. 

Two X1950PROs are cheaper than one HD2900XT.


----------



## Wile E (Sep 21, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Two X1950PROs are cheaper than one HD2900XT.


But don't perform as well, or do DX10. No saying the 1950s are bad, but throwing the facts out there.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 21, 2007)

Wile E said:


> But don't perform as well, or do DX10. No saying the 1950s are bad, but throwing the facts out there.



I didnt say anything about peformance in that statement i just made. I said the price. Of COURSE 1 HD2900XT will blow a X1950PRO CF setup out of the water, Crossfire for X1950PROs is redundant unless you already have another X1950PRO and a crossfire motherboard.


----------



## Wile E (Sep 21, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> I didnt say anything about peformance in that statement i just made. I said the price. Of COURSE 1 HD2900XT will blow a X1950PRO CF setup out of the water, Crossfire for X1950PROs is redundant unless you already have another X1950PRO and a crossfire motherboard.


I know, I was just throwing it out there in case anyone had any doubts. Wasn't trying to undermine you in any way.


----------



## mitsirfishi (Sep 21, 2007)

yer the 2900xt should rape my x1950's in cf but they can give a match for the 8800gts320 in quiet a few games and that its just picky with drivers and overclocking at times...


----------



## grunt_408 (Sep 21, 2007)

Thanks for all the help. 
I wish I could afford the hd2900.


----------



## grunt_408 (Sep 21, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> Ex'es and money, fortunatley for me I haven't come across any leeches.
> Last one was only good in the sack.
> Had nothing in common and was like a mute when my mates came over so I had to send her packing.



lol you are lucky I just had a letter in the mail from the child support agency wanting money for a kid I didnt know existed! Talk about dropping a bomb crickey I am already paying for two of em. Dont get me wrong I love my kids but this shiela is only after one thing MONEY!


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 21, 2007)

> lol you are lucky I just had a letter in the mail from the child support agency wanting money for a kid I didnt know existed! Talk about dropping a bomb crickey I am already paying for two of em. Dont get me wrong I love my kids but this shiela is only after one thing MONEY!



damn, that suckurz, man - unless you're 100% defi, you might want to call for DNAtyical proof.

Thankfully, I've been lucky and don't have any kids, yet.  I couldn't afford them anyhow - still paying too much on medical and dental bills from years ago.


----------



## Wile E (Sep 21, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> lol you are lucky I just had a letter in the mail from the child support agency wanting money for a kid I didnt know existed! Talk about dropping a bomb crickey I am already paying for two of em. Dont get me wrong I love my kids but this shiela is only after one thing MONEY!


I know how you feel. $650/mo in child support here.


----------



## peach1971 (Sep 21, 2007)

> still paying too much on medical and dental bills from years ago.


Just reminds me of "SICKO" and that I luckily live in a "Socialist Health Care System". 

Btw. (topic related):
Did anyone notice that Lavalys Everest now supports monitoring VRM temp?


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 21, 2007)

Nice front page morons got the HD2950PRO thread locked up! Nice! Now i dont have anywhere to discuss it.


----------



## grunt_408 (Sep 21, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> damn, that suckurz, man - unless you're 100% defi, you might want to call for DNAtyical proof.
> 
> Thankfully, I've been lucky and don't have any kids, yet.  I couldn't afford them anyhow - still paying too much on medical and dental bills from years ago.



I have said there is no way it is mine so she has to prove it in the way os a dna test. If the child is mine I have to pay back pay and for the test. Why wasnt I born a female I would be rich by now!


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 21, 2007)

Discuss about it here, since some immature individuals made the front page closed. Nevertheless, any nonsense and I'll snap on ya. Anyway, HD2950PRO.... die shrink, smaller cooler, you could say this IS a DX10 X1950PRO. Moreover, since its only 55nm, the cooling used, that is pictured does not have to be so powerful. However.... I spot VRMs, watch out guys! 

One more thing, same PCB length, and i do think its possible to install an AcceleroX2 on this, well if they get rid of those capacitors above the fan that is.

EDIT: It is genuine, please do *not* whatsoever discuss that is is a fake. It pisses me off that when I want to post something in those threads i find them locked.


----------



## Darknova (Sep 21, 2007)

Mmm, me likey...now if only I had 2 16x PCI-E slots I'd get two of those bad boys and CF them


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 21, 2007)

odd how similar it looks to a 1950, makes me wonder if it is a 1950, just with a different core and a few more electrical components . . .


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 22, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> odd how similar it looks to a 1950, makes me wonder if it is a 1950, just with a different core and a few more electrical components . . .



Yeah I noticed that, but it isnt the same card. I am guessing it uses less power in whole, or is more efficent. 55nm will run very cool though


----------



## Wile E (Sep 22, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> EDIT: It is genuine, please do *not* whatsoever discuss that is is a fake. It pisses me off that when I want to post something in those threads i find them locked.


While I'm stoked at the prospect of this card, you can't really qualify that statement, short of seeing and testing it with your own eyes. Let's just wait till it's official.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 22, 2007)

Wile E said:


> While I'm stoked at the prospect of this card, you can't really qualify that statement, short of seeing and testing it with your own eyes. Let's just wait till it's official.



Even if its fake, keep it to yourself. In regards to what the moderators wished for.


----------



## Wile E (Sep 22, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Even if its fake, keep it to yourself. In regards to what the moderators wished for.


Ummm, the mods never said anything about not being allowed to say it's fake. But whatever, I'll leave it at that.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 22, 2007)

Ei guys... I'll warn you early... VRM ALERT!


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 22, 2007)

I kind of wonder, though, if the HD-PRO won't support hardware monitoring like many of the 1950 PRO's.  Unless you snag a tier 1 card, it seems that all the others and just plug 'n go, like they're aimed at people that wouldn't even have any interest in OCing or tweaking them.

Like, for instance, a lot of the newer 1950 PRO's on the market - I find it amazing how many of even the tier 2 cards look exactly the same except they're branded differently (the ATI, VisionTek, Diamond are exactly the same).  It's like ATI recently has been making all their hardware idiot-proof, unless you fork the extra cash for a "performance" model.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 22, 2007)

tier 1 card....Sapphire. Thing is lower tier cards use better cooling to affirm better quality, then the ultra low tier cards just use normal or inferior cooling. One thing to note though, VRM!


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 22, 2007)

yeah, kinda surprised by that considering the hoopla the 1950 PRO's had with VRMs.  Somehow, I get the feeling that the VRM route is cheaper to manufacture than using an ass-load of capacitors.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 22, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> yeah, kinda surprised by that considering the hoopla the 1950 PRO's had with VRMs.  Somehow, I get the feeling that the VRM route is cheaper to manufacture than using an ass-load of capacitors.



Yeah it certainly is.. and more compact. Since AMD uses a large ring bus memorly layout...the PCB would be huge if the X1950PRO used capacitors, standard chokes and standard mofsets,


----------



## Wile E (Sep 22, 2007)

I don't like the power connector placement. Seems they're back to the old style, which could interfere with some people's hard drive layouts in smaller cases. I had that issue with my old mid-tower and X1800


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 22, 2007)

> I don't like the power connector placement. Seems they're back to the old style, which could interfere with some people's hard drive layouts in smaller cases. I had that issue with my old mid-tower and X1800



I hear that, my mid-tower is a little tight tween the power connector and the HDD slots.  I've only got about 1.5" space.  In my mATX eMachines case, space was TIGHT.  I'm surprised I managed any decent airflow with how long the 1950 is.



> Yeah it certainly is.. and more compact. Since AMD uses a large ring bus memorly layout...the PCB would be huge if the X1950PRO used capacitors, standard chokes and standard mofsets,



there are some other chips on my 1950 PRO that I can't remember their purpuse right off the top of my head, all on the backside of the card.  They have something to with power management, but they're not VRMs.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 22, 2007)

They are mofsets.


----------



## Widjaja (Sep 22, 2007)

That HD2950pro PCB has sort of a burnt look to it.

Okay what's the difference between a tier 1 & 2 card and how can you tell what teir card you have.
I don't know what mine is supposed to be.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 22, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> That HD2950pro PCB has sort of a burnt look to it.
> 
> Okay what's the difference between a tier 1 & 2 card and how can you tell what teir card you have.
> I don't know what mine is supposed to be.



Tier 1, Sapphires are tier 1, you will find that sapphires tend to be the better overclockers on good cooling.


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 23, 2007)

I thought HIS, ASUS and Gigabyte also filled out the Tier 1 lineup?



> Okay what's the difference between a tier 1 & 2 card and how can you tell what teir card you have



Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Tier 2 cards would be like ATI, VisionTek, MSI

I think the tier setup revolves around the cards inherent performance (whether it comes OC, tweaked, performance cooled, etc) and price.


----------



## niko084 (Sep 23, 2007)

You know to be honest in the games I play, my new 2600xt gddr4 @ 850/1150 is FASTER than my old 256mb Sapphire 1950pro.... Not by much but by a bit...

That system runs in 1280x1024
Games-
CS:S
Vegas
SupCom
Neverwinter 2
Warcraft 3

PS- anyone get any solid info on a 2650xt or 2700/2800?
Something like the 2600 but with 256bit ram.. If that comes out my 1950's are gone...


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 23, 2007)

niko084 said:


> You know to be honest in the games I play, my new 2600xt gddr4 @ 850/1150 is FASTER than my old 256mb Sapphire 1950pro.... Not by much but by a bit...
> 
> That system runs in 1280x1024
> Games-
> ...



HD2950PRO will be its replacement. HD2600XT? Yes at your clocks nonetheless its faster, but how many GDDR4 HD2600XTs can manage that speed anyway?


----------



## niko084 (Sep 23, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> HD2950PRO will be its replacement. HD2600XT? Yes at your clocks nonetheless its faster, but how many GDDR4 HD2600XTs can manage that speed anyway?



It's actually not much of an overclock, in fact I bought the card clocked this high...


----------



## munuz (Sep 24, 2007)

*help with overclock*

my set up is

Q6600
Asus P5K-E
2G Kingston Hyper X
2 x 160G Sata II Raided 
2 x Xpertvision 512mb HD2900XT's
Top power 1200W Powertrain PSU


Im getting around 12200 on 3D mark 06,

any suggestions on how to pull a bigger score?
vid cards run like an oven...... and can be loud..


----------



## Wile E (Sep 24, 2007)

You can overclock. That score does seem a bit low tho. I get 11k with one 2900XT 512MB @ 847core/999mem, on a 3.4GHz AMD X2 cpu.


----------



## munuz (Sep 24, 2007)

i have thought of that... but i am running vista ultimate...... ATItool doesnt exactly agree with it and the auto overclock tool in CCC isnt worth the hassle.... it makes the card heat up way to much... i can pretty much cook food in the case when they are clocked.......


----------



## Wile E (Sep 24, 2007)

What about cpu?


----------



## munuz (Sep 24, 2007)

it is clocked... running 3g per core.. and still not performing... im thinking it might be vista.....


----------



## Wile E (Sep 24, 2007)

munuz said:


> it is clocked... running 3g per core.. and still not performing... im thinking it might be vista.....


Software was my next guess. Do you have the latest drivers, and latest DX installed?


----------



## munuz (Sep 24, 2007)

Yeah i have Catalyst 7.9..(even though that was a problem in itself) all drivers for all parts are up to date.... bios for board is aswell... i think if i could get atitools to run and change the fan speed i wouldn't have a prob...


----------



## Wile E (Sep 24, 2007)

munuz said:


> Yeah i have Catalyst 7.9..(even though that was a problem in itself) all drivers for all parts are up to date.... bios for board is aswell... i think if i could get atitools to run and change the fan speed i wouldn't have a prob...


Are you on x64 Vista?


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 24, 2007)

Hey guys with HD2600XTs, do me a favour.

Run your HD2600XTs with ANY driver that suits you. Buy/Download (...) Need for Speed carbon. Use FRAPS to record framerates. Anyway, run under these settings.

*In game settings: *

-Resolution 1280x1024
-4xAA
-Antiso Filtering (Make sure its NOT forced, game settings)
-High World Detail
-High Car Reflection update
-High road reflection detail
-High car detail
-Particle System ON
-Motion Blur OFF
-Vsync OFF

*Driver level settings*

Anti Aliasing: Application level
Antistropic Filtering: Application level
AI: Standard
Mipmap: Max
Vsync: OFF

My X1950PRO gets about 40~50 FPS. Do the palmont university run as well (fortuna). This will see if the HD2600XT lives up to its perf claim. ALSO post if you have a GDDR4 model and the clocks as well. I expect VERY LOW minimal frame rate, but extremely high max frame rate.


----------



## Widjaja (Sep 24, 2007)

TK
Do you think the HD2600's are going to have a laggy look in the busy areas in Carbon?
I think one of the places that can possibly make frames drop is going past the Dinosaur.
There's two other places I can think of but I can't say th location.
I know one is a pink building/archway in the stacked deck area.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 24, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> TK
> Do you think the HD2600's are going to have a laggy look in the busy areas in Carbon?
> I think one of the places that can possibly make frames drop is going past the Dinosaur.
> There's two other places I can think of but I can't say th location.
> I know one is a pink building/archway in the stacked deck area.



No the MOST stressing place is on that palmont university circuit where you cut into the parks with the S shortcuts...why? Vegetation. End of story. Try on maximum, the HD2600PRO is BOUND to become a slideshow card there.


----------



## t_ski (Sep 24, 2007)

Hey guys, as a member of the club who hasn't had much to ask about, I now find myslef with an issue and would like your input on my Sapphire HD2900XT.  I woke this morning to find small green artifacts in banner ads and pics (2D stuff - I didn't dare try any games). The only time I have ever seen anything like this was when I fried the core on my Radeon 8100 by overclocking it waaaaaaayyy too high.  This card has not been overclocked any more than the Overdrive settings will allow, and the settings were reset to defaults immediately after testing.

The first thing I did was reboot the system and fortunately that seems to have corrected it, but I know when I had the issue before that it got worse and worse.  Looking at the temp in the CCC panel it's sitting at 59 degrees C using the stock cooler.  It's been pretty hot the past few days, and the wife (who's paying the bill right now) won't turn on the AC.

Any thoughts here?  Has anyone seen anything like this?


----------



## niko084 (Sep 24, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Hey guys with HD2600XTs, do me a favour.
> 
> Run your HD2600XTs with ANY driver that suits you. Buy/Download (...) Need for Speed carbon. Use FRAPS to record framerates. Anyway, run under these settings.
> 
> ...



Downloading now... I think you guys highly underestimate the 2600xt....
So far for me my 2600xt gddr4 outruns my old 1950pro in everything I have played on it, not by a lot but a bit.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Sep 24, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> No the MOST stressing place is on that palmont university circuit where you cut into the parks with the S shortcuts...why? Vegetation. End of story. Try on maximum, the HD2600PRO is BOUND to become a slideshow card there.



my 7900GS about becomes a slide show in some spots with everything maxed out at stock speeds but OCed it doesn't.


----------



## niko084 (Sep 24, 2007)

Okay here we go-

I don't own it so I ran the races in the demo, *no performance patches*.
Machine-
Intel D 915 @ 2.8
2 gigs Ram
2600xt GDDR4

Low 38
High 46
Normal - stayed right around 40ish


If you can run the demo and see what ya get might get a little more info then.


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 24, 2007)

> The first thing I did was reboot the system and fortunately that seems to have corrected it, but I know when I had the issue before that it got worse and worse. Looking at the temp in the CCC panel it's sitting at 59 degrees C using the stock cooler. It's been pretty hot the past few days, and the wife (who's paying the bill right now) won't turn on the AC.
> 
> Any thoughts here? Has anyone seen anything like this?



Well, aside from the obvious, which would be to just leave the PC off unless you need it, and in which case I doubt you're wanting to do that . . .

Water cooling is the second obvious answer, but that can be expensive . . .

Not sure what is supported by whatever software with the HDs - you can try to see if ATi Tray Tools, ATiTool or RivaTuner can pick up on any hardware/fan monitoring on the card.  In which case, you can turn adjust the fan:temp table so the fan will start spinning harder at lower temps.

If that doesn't work - RaBit might be able to read the BIOS (not sure on this), and you can manually adjust the fan:temp table and re-flash the GPU BIOS.

Another option, unless you've already done so . . . plug all your case fans into the PSU connectors, use the 3-pin to 4-pin cable adapters if need be.  The fans will move a ton more air when connected to straight power as compared to being controlled by the mobo BIOS.  Only downfall here, is they tend to be a lot louder, and they will be spinning at 100% (shorter fan life, although running them at 100% for a few days or weeks won't do much harm).


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Sep 24, 2007)

niko084 said:


> Okay here we go-
> 
> I don't own it so I ran the races in the demo, *no performance patches*.
> Machine-
> ...



Is it a cely or a Pd


----------



## Widjaja (Sep 25, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> No the MOST stressing place is on that palmont university circuit where you cut into the parks with the S shortcuts...why? Vegetation. End of story. Try on maximum, the HD2600PRO is BOUND to become a slideshow card there.



Oh the place with the hairpin at the end.
My X1950pro does well through that area unexpectedly.
NFSMW has a short sharp s-bend west of the university which turns into a slideshow and there's alot of trees on eitherside with shadows everywhere.

Interesting to see how it plays though on HD2600XT's though.
In PCpowerplay a Sapphire 2600XT 256 GDDR4 scored 5285 in 06, around the same as a X1950pro.


----------



## t_ski (Sep 25, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> Well, aside from the obvious, which would be to just leave the PC off unless you need it, and in which case I doubt you're wanting to do that . . .
> 
> Water cooling is the second obvious answer, but that can be expensive . . .
> 
> ...



Yeah, I ended up turning off the PC after dinner, but the PC normally runs 24/7.  I have all the case fans attached to fan controllers, so there's no need to worry there. I also decided it would be best to clock the CPU back down to stock, since it was adding almost another 10C to the CPU temp, and the hot air was just being exhausted into the case.  Finally I decided to reinstall the VGA exhaust fan that came with the case as a way to help get even more hot air out of the system.

I still have not seen anymore green artifacts (knock on wood), but I did have some issues in Photoshop where the image was just blanking out on me while trying to select.  Another reboot seemed to cure that and I was able to finish up some work.  That was the whole deal - I needed to finish up some new content for you guys, but I was afraid I killed my card...


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 25, 2007)

you could always try and setup "idle" clock speeds - bring your core and mem clocks down 5-10% for when the rig is at idle or only doing menial desktop tasks (i.e. not running videos, gaming, 3D rendering, etc.).  I'd think it should be alright in photoshop at lower clock speeds, anyhow, as it's the CPU that does a lot of the leg work there . . .

Hell, you could even go a step further and use ATT or ATiTool to setup program profiles where it would bring the GPU clocks back up to normal or OC when certain programs are running.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 25, 2007)

niko084 said:


> Okay here we go-
> 
> I don't own it so I ran the races in the demo, *no performance patches*.
> Machine-
> ...



 Piracy rules. Nah anyway, what settings though? Same settings right? The demo will run faster though... so we dont really know. I'll downclock my CPU as well as install the demo and see.


----------



## Wile E (Sep 25, 2007)

t_ski said:


> Yeah, I ended up turning off the PC after dinner, but the PC normally runs 24/7.  I have all the case fans attached to fan controllers, so there's no need to worry there. I also decided it would be best to clock the CPU back down to stock, since it was adding almost another 10C to the CPU temp, and the hot air was just being exhausted into the case.  Finally I decided to reinstall the VGA exhaust fan that came with the case as a way to help get even more hot air out of the system.
> 
> I still have not seen anymore green artifacts (knock on wood), but I did have some issues in Photoshop where the image was just blanking out on me while trying to select.  Another reboot seemed to cure that and I was able to finish up some work.  That was the whole deal - I needed to finish up some new content for you guys, but I was afraid I killed my card...


I've gotten artifacts in Firefox from day one. I also get artifacts on the desktop, on occasion. I've heard many other 2900 owners mention it as well. I'm pretty sure it's a bug of some sort. Some that complained about it,said that better cooling eliminated the problem. I was on the verge of RMAing mine, when I first noticed it, until I read about others with the same issue. Guess I'll find out when I finally buy a block for this thing.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 25, 2007)

any of yall got the links to the RMA for HIS? http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?p=470411#post470411

I seem to be having trouble getting a response from them.

Hey Wile E to answer your woes, its a possible chance the Heatsink is not fully on the card meaning no imprint into the TIM for the Ram, aka loose screws, also apparently an excessive amt of TIM was used on the GPU, I suggest using better TIM for Core and Ram, Lap the stock heatsink and polish it.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 25, 2007)

The artifacts are due to poor cooling. Some of the HD2900XTs are manufactured with only TWO heatpipes, the HD2900PROs have 3~4... Gigabyte makes their HD2900XTs with 3 Heatpipes, and there is a massive difference in perf.

Eidairaman, I would keep trying. I would instead take the busted X1950PRO to the store where you purchased it from and RMA from there; thats if your patience runs out though.


----------



## Wile E (Sep 25, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> any of yall got the links to the RMA for HIS? http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?p=470411#post470411
> 
> I seem to be having trouble getting a response from them.
> 
> Hey Wile E to answer your woes, its a possible chance the Heatsink is not fully on the card meaning no imprint into the TIM for the Ram, aka loose screws, also apparently an excessive amt of TIM was used on the GPU, I suggest using better TIM for Core and Ram, Lap the stock heatsink and polish it.


I already dismantled it and applied some AS5. Temps dropped about 5c at idle, but I still get the artifacts. Strangely, it never artifacts in 3d mode, just 2d.


----------



## t_ski (Sep 25, 2007)

Thanks - that's what I was hoping to hear, that others have seen the issue and it is not permanent.  I do have plans to cool it better, and I probably will go with watercooling it.  I just haven't saved the money up yet 

Has anybody seen or tried the EK full-coverage blocks?  They're a bit more affordable than the Danger Den.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Argh!*

Well TK, i cant take it back to the store because i Ordered Online, and beyond that Tigerdirect has only a 30 day return policy, which i bought the card back in February. Well no Reply to my message that i sent to HIS, perhaps i need to just buy a New board and never buy From HIS again, at least Sapphire has a better Support system (Direct Emails/Phone Numbers in US) At least ATI would Reply immediately, Unfortunately they dont handle 3rd party boards like Nvidia apparently Does.

I think ill purchase the X1950 Pro 512 From Sapphire off ewiz. Any opinions on the e-tailer welcome



tkpenalty said:


> The artifacts are due to poor cooling. Some of the HD2900XTs are manufactured with only TWO heatpipes, the HD2900PROs have 3~4... Gigabyte makes their HD2900XTs with 3 Heatpipes, and there is a massive difference in perf.
> 
> Eidairaman, I would keep trying. I would instead take the busted X1950PRO to the store where you purchased it from and RMA from there; thats if your patience runs out though.


----------



## Darknova (Sep 25, 2007)

Ok, well my latest venture is going to be a 2900....now I just realised the 2900Pro has been released today...or it's the first time the e-tailers have got them in.

So a 512Mb 2900XT is £240~ and a 512Mb 2900Pro is £170~....which do I get? lol. I'm kind of confused as to the difference. All I can tell is that the 2900Pro is just an underclocked XT? Is that right?


----------



## panchoman (Sep 25, 2007)

i've got a x1950pro by sapphire, count me in


----------



## -1nf1n1ty- (Sep 25, 2007)

I GOTS A HD2900XT I want in


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 26, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> Well TK, i cant take it back to the store because i Ordered Online, and beyond that Tigerdirect has only a 30 day return policy, which i bought the card back in February. Well no Reply to my message that i sent to HIS, perhaps i need to just buy a New board and never buy From HIS again, at least Sapphire has a better Support system (Direct Emails/Phone Numbers in US) At least ATI would Reply immediately, Unfortunately they dont handle 3rd party boards like Nvidia apparently Does.
> 
> I think ill purchase the X1950 Pro 512 From Sapphire off ewiz. Any opinions on the e-tailer welcome



Their 30 Day return policy means for full refund, not warranty. Grab a HD2900PRO guys...


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 26, 2007)

I'm planning on snagging a couple of 2900XT's early next year, after I upgrade the CPU and get my federal taxes back.

Not quite sure what I'm gonna do with this 1950PRO, though . . .


----------



## DaMulta (Sep 26, 2007)

I always wonder why I'm not apart of this club.....

OK fellows 

Soft Crossfire does not work well in -c temps
Crossfire will not start up for some reason. I have tried with 3 XTX cards/ Now with a Master card it will start up and work fine. Odd yes it is.

I have found that if you unplug the TEC and let it warm up past 40c Soft Crossfire will engage, but under that you are looking for a lock up.

Now one card in the -c zone is AOK and you will have no problems with that. I can run one card stable at 762 at all times. I think I could go higher with a volt mod, but I'm selling my XTX cards soon.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 26, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Their 30 Day return policy means for full refund, not warranty. Grab a HD2900PRO guys...



sorry i dont trust the 2900 Series, Power requirements would require me to upgrade PSU yet again. Id rather wait for the 2950 Pro and then Upgrade


----------



## munuz (Sep 26, 2007)

Got mine running better,
Q6600 3.6 ghz per core
4G Kingston Hyper X
2 x 160G SII Raided
2 x 512mb HD2900XT's 

First bench
3D mark 06 12k ish
Now 17977 3D mark 06

i have ATI tools running the fans at about 75% 
while AMD GPU CLOCK is doing the clock settings
ENG  : 858 MEM : 900
it heats up a little but not to bad


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 26, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> I always wonder why I'm not apart of this club.....
> 
> OK fellows
> 
> ...



you're in man. I forgot to add you haha.... Err one thing more info and a pic would be great though. 



> *X1k~HD2k Clubhouse*
> 
> A support group for all X1k, HD2k Owners.
> 
> ...



Yeah making you guys aware of a recent update.


----------



## mitsirfishi (Sep 26, 2007)

http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/132737
darknova get one from ebuyer when they get some stocked  148 isnt to bad and powercolour arnt to bad either with ati save yourself abit of dough im tempted to get one but a p35 ds4 and a couple of other bits are going to make me pocketless anyway


----------



## Darknova (Sep 26, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/132737
> darknova get one from ebuyer when they get some stocked  148 isnt to bad and powercolour arnt to bad either with ati save yourself abit of dough im tempted to get one but a p35 ds4 and a couple of other bits are going to make me pocketless anyway



Wow...that wasn't there yesterday...and trust me, I looked lol. Overclockers was the only place that had the 2900Pro's listed, and they only have the HIS one's in.

£148...guess what card I'm getting? 

I don't need to save to be honest lol. I have everything I could want....well cept a meaty PSU, but I can get a decent one for £60.


----------



## mitsirfishi (Sep 26, 2007)

your psu should be fine im going to be skint if im making a new system   with a q6600 and ds4 plus water cooling plus 2900pro lol


----------



## Darknova (Sep 26, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> your psu should be fine im going to be skint if im making a new system   with a q6600 and ds4 plus water cooling plus 2900pro lol



Read my other thread about a new PSU. I only have ONE PCI-E connector and I can't use the molex to PCI-E adapter because of the stupid Extender's.


----------



## mitsirfishi (Sep 26, 2007)

does the 2900pro use what the xt does a 6pin and a  8pin to power it ? if not get one of those 6 to 8 pin adapters a couple of quid but does the job if that is the case


----------



## Darknova (Sep 26, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> does the 2900pro use what the xt does a 6pin and a  8pin to power it ? if not get one of those 6 to 8 pin adapters a couple of quid but does the job if that is the case



I can't use any adapters, because of the stupid extender's. If I try it won't boot. I tried to CF and old 1950XT of my friends, wouldn't boot.

The Extender's are basically adapters already. They extend each line so you have more connectors, but to use the PCI-E adapters I can't have more than one device on each string, and I have multiple fans, multiple HDDs etc. Running off them. I've tried to free up one line, but again, it won't boot with that much load on one line.

So I need a new PSU.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 26, 2007)

HD2900PRO uses two 6 pins, to be able to overclock requires a 6 pin + 8 pin config. Simply, buy the adapter to solve this.


----------



## Darknova (Sep 26, 2007)

I get the feeling no one reads my posts....*sigh*


----------



## Widjaja (Sep 26, 2007)

People with X1950pro who play or have played stalker.
Do you get bad stutters/second pauses in Stalker when first entering an area or when first moving in the game?
I have the latest patch.

Just seems a bit wierd to me since the game is made for the PC.


----------



## Wile E (Sep 26, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> HD2900PRO uses two 6 pins, to be able to overclock requires a 6 pin + 8 pin config. Simply, buy the adapter to solve this.


You don't even need an 8pin adapter. A.) The 8pin only unlocks Overdrive in the CCC, 3rd party tools work fine without, and B.) the 2 extra pins are just grounds. They don't provide any extra power, what-so-ever.

And now off-topic: I think you need to remove the Zero spam tolerance bit, it makes you look bad/mean.


----------



## Wile E (Sep 26, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> People with X1950pro who play or have played stalker.
> Do you get bad stutters/second pauses in Stalker when first entering an area or when first moving in the game?
> I have the latest patch.
> 
> Just seems a bit wierd to me since the game is made for the PC.


I had stutters, even with my 2900 OCed.


----------



## Widjaja (Sep 26, 2007)

Wile E said:


> I had stutters, even with my 2900 OCed.



Damn so my bro was right, even the 2900's suck at Stalker.
He's playing Stalker no probs on his 8800GTX at some crazy res with max settings. . . . . bastard
I really like the atmosphere of the game.
Haven't come across a game which gives me the creeps when playing it late at night in the dark in a long while.
Coming across that pseudogiant in the x18 labs with it's sumo stomp gave me a fright.

Didn't ASUS bring out a HD2900XT with a picture of stalker printed on to it?
I wonder if that card stutters in stalker too.


----------



## niko084 (Sep 26, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Piracy rules. Nah anyway, what settings though? Same settings right? The demo will run faster though... so we dont really know. I'll downclock my CPU as well as install the demo and see.



Yes same settings and for the heck of it I tried it with catalyst AI on advanced and adaptive anti ali on quality. Didn't change the frame rates at all, and I'm not sure about how it looks on a 1950pro, but even with filtering turned up at all it looked the exact same.

I'll be the first to say there is no doubt the 2600's have their weak sides, but its a grand card by all means.


----------



## Darknova (Sep 26, 2007)

Ok, I was having a discussion with a friend of mine. He's a big green fanboi. I go for whatever is best for the price. I was explaining how for the price the 2900Pro is better, as I can get a Pro for £150, and the cheapest 8800GTS 320Mb is £170....am I right? I've read one review on the Pro but it never gave any figures. I know the recent driver updates have done wonders for the 2900XT, but how much better is it? Does it now compete with the GTX, or is it still in GTS 640 territory?

For the price I would think the Pro would beat the GTS 320, being just an underclocked XT, but is it?

And I understand this is the HD2k clubhouse, but please, no fanboi answers.


----------



## imperialreign (Sep 26, 2007)

I think the PRO could, and if you take into account that ATI's drivers for the cards are continuing to mature quite healthfully, the performance of the PRO should only continue to get better.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 27, 2007)

2001st post


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 27, 2007)

Darknova said:


> Ok, I was having a discussion with a friend of mine. He's a big green fanboi. I go for whatever is best for the price. I was explaining how for the price the 2900Pro is better, as I can get a Pro for £150, and the cheapest 8800GTS 320Mb is £170....am I right? I've read one review on the Pro but it never gave any figures. I know the recent driver updates have done wonders for the 2900XT, but how much better is it? Does it now compete with the GTX, or is it still in GTS 640 territory?
> 
> For the price I would think the Pro would beat the GTS 320, being just an underclocked XT, but is it?
> 
> And I understand this is the HD2k clubhouse, but please, no fanboi answers.



HD2900PRO > 8800GTS320MB so badly... 8800GTS320MB has those random stutters in many games not to mention.


----------



## Wile E (Sep 27, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> 2001st post


I saw your edit. Na-na-na-na-na-na.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 27, 2007)

Wile E said:


> I saw your edit. Na-na-na-na-na-na.





DAMN YOU IMPERIALREIGN T_____T. Anyway...HD2950PRO, turns out that it is made in the similar dimensions to a X1950PRO... I like the stock cooling, it sort of represents the X1950PRO's stock one (the ATI original version, not the sapphire aluminium cooler faliure). Man...this card is going to be on my christmas wishlist.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 27, 2007)

i honestly dont care what material the heatsink is, as long as i dont have to buy one just to keep it cool in stock conditions.


----------



## mitsirfishi (Sep 27, 2007)

well maybe you should because using different materials affect your temps


----------



## Widjaja (Sep 27, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> HD2950PRO, turns out that it is made in the similar dimensions to a X1950PRO... I like the stock cooling, it sort of represents the X1950PRO's stock one (the ATI original version, not the sapphire aluminium cooler faliure)



Sapphire X1950pro 512MB Rev 1
82 deg max load in 30deg room temps.

So yeah not very good coolers and the reason why Sapphire stopped using them I'm guessing and probably right.
Card still going strong though.
Not one graphical issue or booting issue with it.

One thing I have noticed is the H/S has somewhat discoloured where it contacts with the  3 visible mem chips.


----------



## Darknova (Sep 27, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> HD2900PRO > 8800GTS320MB so badly... 8800GTS320MB has those random stutters in many games not to mention.



So what about the XT? What is it competing with now?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 27, 2007)

ahem, thermalright has proven many wrong that aluminum is not an ideal cooling device.


----------



## mitsirfishi (Sep 27, 2007)

look copper transfer heat quicker away but aliminuim dispences it quicker  simple ? that is why cpu coolers have copper bases with aliminium fins so with some stock cooling solutions you see copper bases with aliminium top


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 27, 2007)

2950 Pro would be on my Xmas List if it was a AGP part, id pick one of those up instead of the X1950 Pro, as long as it runs off a 500 watt PSU.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 27, 2007)

for a X1950 Pro my ideal cooler would be this, any other ideas? http://www.thermalright.com/a_page/main_product_hr03_Rev_A.htm


----------



## mitsirfishi (Sep 27, 2007)

it will run no problems off a 500watt psu


----------



## mitsirfishi (Sep 27, 2007)

the thermalright v2's are pretty good just pure copper then you get to put a fan on of choice in 80mm and 92mm cools x1900gt's down well


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 27, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> for a X1950 Pro my ideal cooler would be this, any other ideas? http://www.thermalright.com/a_page/main_product_hr03_Rev_A.htm



Yes, but an AcceleroX2 would be the preferred option..


----------



## mitsirfishi (Sep 27, 2007)

accelero s1 with fans ftw


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 27, 2007)

really, i heard they dont perform that well, I wonder how much space is taken up with both coolers, as in my machine i have this motherboard http://us.dfi.com.tw/Upload/Product_Picture/LP NFII ULTRA B b.jpg

Currently with a 9800 Pro with AC VGA Silencer Rev 3 on it, i have a backup 10MBps PCI Lan Card installed in the first PCI Slot (tight fit)


----------



## mitsirfishi (Sep 27, 2007)

why not just have it in teh bottem slot ?  and leave more room for bigger vga cooler wouldnt that make more sense


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 27, 2007)

let me see, i like being able to use all my PCI Slots, and also it was an experiment i  had enough room to put the card in that slot cause its shorter than any of the other cards in which doesnt block the fan on the VGA Silencer, and beyond that i intend on putting a old sound card (SB PCI 512) in for Music Conversion from MIDI to MP3/WAV, since the card renders MIDIs different than AC97 and XFi boards. Beyond that, i dont think i will change the cooling on the X1950 Pro, when ill be upgrading to a Core 2 System with a X2950 Pro or AMD AM2+ system with the same vid card, sound card wont be from Creative Labs, Probably Blue Gears, HT OMEGA or Auzentech.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 27, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> really, i heard they dont perform that well, I wonder how much space is taken up with both coolers, as in my machine i have this motherboard http://us.dfi.com.tw/Upload/Product_Picture/LP NFII ULTRA B b.jpg
> 
> Currently with a 9800 Pro with AC VGA Silencer Rev 3 on it, i have a backup 10MBps PCI Lan Card installed in the first PCI Slot (tight fit)



I would grab an AcceleroX2 instead... Thermalright HR-03 is too chunky and pretty much redundant.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 27, 2007)

Updated members list, Have a good read of section 4a (rules and member conditions), and tell me if you ARENT in the club and you want to be. It takes a long time to fully edit the stuff just to let you know.


----------



## Widjaja (Sep 27, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> I would grab an AcceleroX2 instead... Thermalright HR-03 is too chunky and pretty much redundant.



Don't the HR-03's take up 3 PCI slots?
I think there was a thread in the video card section of TPU about this cooler being added to a Sapphire X1950pro.

I'd say Accelero X-2 even though the hot air blows towards the motherboard.
Think the second popular option people with X1950pro have chosen is the LED cooler from Zalman.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 27, 2007)

ya Wile E referred me to this topic, but ya know what
it may appear that HIS has a California number i can call, probably next week ill give them a ring and see what they can do for me, if they grant me a RMA, i should have a new X1950 Pro (Hopefully a New Rev) by the next week, I may also decide to grab the Accelero X2 for kicks (Glad its not OTES =Increase Thermal temps with exhaust at bottom of case , prevents cool air from reaching CPU area thus increases temps by 3-5 degrees)


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 27, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> Don't the HR-03's take up 3 PCI slots?
> I think there was a thread in the video card section of TPU about this cooler being added to a Sapphire X1950pro.
> 
> I'd say Accelero X-2 even though the hot air blows towards the motherboard.
> Think the second popular option people with X1950pro have chosen is the LED cooler from Zalman.



The exhaust from the Accelero is no means hot. Its barely warm... thats a common trait of heatpipe coolers that get rid of heat quickly. Nonetheless on an X1950PRO the fins wont get warm. The Exhaust from the acceleroX2 will do NOTHING to the motherboard fyi. 

Simply put it this way, the X1950PRO is not an overclockable card generally, an AcceleroX2 is enough. a VF900CU would land you with needing to purchase heatsinks for the VRMs and performs the same pretty much... AcceleroX2 is cheap anyway. Grab it.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 27, 2007)

what i am getting at is that boards that are DHES overall system temps do go up if you have a case with just front and back fans (fronts being at bottom up front and rear being up top at back, then combine DHES fan from graphics at PCI slot at bottom of case)


----------



## FreedomEclipse (Sep 27, 2007)

can i join the club if i have a X1800XT?


----------



## mitsirfishi (Sep 27, 2007)

lol it does say x1k & x2k  meaning all of the ranges


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 27, 2007)

you freakin nut


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 27, 2007)

FreedomEclipse said:


> can i join the club if i have a X1800XT?



Yes.



eidairaman1 said:


> you freakin nut



Ermm.,... what does that mean?


----------



## Widjaja (Sep 27, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Ermm.,... what does that mean?



I think he's trying to get more stars.


----------



## zekrahminator (Sep 27, 2007)

I'm tempted to vote 1 just to make you angry .


----------



## DaMulta (Sep 27, 2007)

zekrahminator said:


> I'm tempted to vote 1 just to make you angry .



I can't do that


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 27, 2007)

zekrahminator said:


> I'm tempted to vote 1 just to make you angry .



Ahem. Zek.


----------



## newtekie1 (Sep 27, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> X2. 8600GTS> X1950PRO; slamming time!
> 
> Anyway apparently some people really think the 8600GTS > X1950PRO. Their argument is indirect and incompetent! X1950PRO CLEARLY is faster in most practical usages. 3D Mark 05/06 is NOT a viable way to really scope the performance of a GPU, Driver optimisations are ALWAYS the case. With a lower fillrate and everything else, it is the reason. Okay another argument, overclocking! Not EVERY consumer who purchases a GPU will overclock, moreover the stock cooling will completely prohibit any overclocking from being possible at all-you heard me NOT EVERYONE OVERCLOCKS. Moreover half of the Nvidia SKUs are completely tight arse against Overclocking (except for good old EVGA ), if you say that it wont explode or anything, think again. My friend said that, now all he has is a PCB with several capacitors ripped off and some smear of silicon.



Wow, if that isn't the biggest load of BS I have ever heard, I don't know what is.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Biostar/8600GTS_GDDR3/5.html

If you want to talk about practical usage, look at the 1280x1024 category, the most common resolution used today.  The 8600GTS wins some and loses some, but in the end they are about even.  The 8600GTS of course has the benefit for DX10, so in the end the 8600GTS is in fact better because of that one little thing.  You are incompotent just because you are calling other incompotent when you don't know what they hell you are talking about.

An nVidia SKUs are tight against overclocking?  Are you nuts?  There are more pre-overclocked nVidia SKUs there there are even ATI SKUs on the market(probably an exageration).

You are so full of crap.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 27, 2007)

newtekie1 said:


> Wow, if that isn't the biggest load of BS I have ever heard, I don't know what is.
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Biostar/8600GTS_GDDR3/5.html
> 
> ...



Right... The 8600GTS Costs more than a X1950PRO for your information. All you could have done was NICELY say it. Not Call me full of crap. What goes around comes around mate, and you're learning it the hard way newtekie. I thought you WOULD learn from your past experiences but NO. I repeat this.

The 8600GTS Costs more, and NOT EVERYONE overlclocks as I stated. I'm saying that the Nvidia SKUs dont fully utilise the card...we can EASILY push it to 800mhz (700s is enough to rape a X1950PRO).  Another problem, stock cooling. Ive USED a 8600GTS before. Don't think I make CRAP up. The stock cooler is simply not sufficient, I couldnt push it really far (it was running hot anyway... 76*C wtf...). With a VF900CU bolted on.... it soared at 800mhz. 

Be a bit more considerate for the GENERAL CONSUMER. Us enthusiasts are a MINORITY of the computer users. 8600GTS is a good card but has SOME flaws. You should learn some manners mate, go around like that in society and you'll find your head ripped off. As I just said you could have at least asked me POLITELY. I would have changed it but all thanks to your immaturity, I'll be immature towards you and leave it like that.

I wont be an arsehole and report you for that but, be warned, other people arennt so impressed of what you just blurted out. 

UPDATED RULES: If there is anything wrong with the first page, please ask me through PMs, and DONT slander here. Thank you. Doing so in the future will result in me submitting a report.


----------



## mitsirfishi (Sep 27, 2007)

well on the sheer basis of bang for buck x1950pro is £70 spend the extra £25-£30 and you can have a x1950xt which is roughly the same price as 8600gt a good gts is around the £140 marker personal opinion id still have the x1950pro over the 8600gts not because i purely own 2 of them and not because im on the ati wagon yes the 8600gts does have a couple of points dx10 one and shading the x1950pro in a few areas but simple fact it is it costs twice as much so in that review you showed where it pulls 4-5fps is it really worth spending that when you could simply oc the x1950 and make up the difference this always have and always will be a big debate over x1950's and 8600gts like the x1950 excels in shading heavy games because of its heavy shaderhorsepowers. 8600 is like the old 6600gt it grabs a few bits from the halfords show it sticks to it and quiet insane clock speeds

keep a cool head lads


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 27, 2007)

Err...guests....join TPU


----------



## Widjaja (Sep 27, 2007)

Yeah I think nVidia do average or above averge in games while Ati does extremely well in some games and in others it just plain stinks.

But thats just my opinion.


----------



## Darknova (Sep 27, 2007)

£130 for a 256Mb 8600GTS or £136 for a 512Mb 1950XT....hmm...

The 8600GTS just isn't an option in my opinion.


----------



## ghost101 (Sep 27, 2007)

http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/127242

8600GTS for £112 delivered

Ive seen them sell for £105 at dabs but currently theyre out of stock.


----------



## Darknova (Sep 27, 2007)

ghost101 said:


> http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/127242
> 
> 8600GTS for £112 delivered
> 
> Ive seen them sell for £105 at dabs but currently theyre out of stock.



Crappy brand, seen many of those blow up....

Even so, Spend £20-30 more and get a 1950XT. DX10 just doesn't have enough games out to warrant getting a mid-range DX10 card over a high-end DX9.


----------



## Darknova (Sep 27, 2007)

Sorry for double post but...

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/1189/his_radeon_hd_2900_pro_512mb_early_test/index.html

Just in case no one has read it yet


----------



## L|NK|N (Sep 27, 2007)

My want one so bombad!


----------



## Darknova (Sep 27, 2007)

LiNKiN said:


> My want one so bombad!



Me too  Got to upgrade my PSU first though lol.


----------



## newtekie1 (Sep 27, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Right... The 8600GTS Costs more than a X1950PRO for your information.



Really?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814122026
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102061

The cheapest GOOD brand of each.  There is a cheaper x1950Pro from Jetway, but I wouldn't put a Jetway floppy drive in my computer.



> All you could have done was NICELY say it. Not Call me full of crap. What goes around comes around mate, and you're learning it the hard way newtekie. I thought you WOULD learn from your past experiences but NO. I repeat this.



Well once again, you are full of crap, that is my opinion, your opinion is that anyone that says the 8600GTS is better than the x1950Pro is "incompotent". If you want people to be nice, maybe you should be nice to them first?  Calling people incompotent isn't exactly nice there, "mate".



> The 8600GTS Costs more, and NOT EVERYONE overlclocks as I stated.



No, the 8600GTS doesn't cost more, unless you want a terrible x1950Pro brand, see above.  Once again, you don't know what you are talking about.  Of course not everyone overclocks, the 8600GTS is a good overclocker, but it doesn't need to be to beat the x1950Pro, and there are ALOT of pre-overclocked 8600GTSs out there for people that don't want to do it themselves.



> I'm saying that the Nvidia SKUs dont fully utilise the card...we can EASILY push it to 800mhz (700s is enough to rape a X1950PRO).  Another problem, stock cooling. Ive USED a 8600GTS before. Don't think I make CRAP up. The stock cooler is simply not sufficient, I couldnt push it really far (it was running hot anyway... 76*C wtf...). With a VF900CU bolted on.... it soared at 800mhz.



The stock cooler is fine on the 8600GTS, I've used them too, don't think you are the only one who owns video cards around here.  And 76C is more then acceptable for video cards, learn something before you speak.



> UPDATED RULES: If there is anything wrong with the first page, please ask me through PMs, and DONT slander here. Thank you. Doing so in the future will result in me submitting a report.



Theres no slander here, once again you don't know what you are talking about.  PLEASE, look up what slander is.


----------



## Darknova (Sep 27, 2007)

*sigh* I'm sick of these fanboi fights. Newtekie don't come in here if all you are going to do is start a fight. Your arguement is sound, your attitude stinks. Both you and tk have valid points, but neither of you is 100% right.

TK, prices vary. Here in the UK the 8600GTS is most definately more expensive than the 1950Pro (by up to £50) but as newtekie pointed out in the US there are places that sell them for the same price, and on that account there is no point in going for a 1950Pro, the 1950Pro is NOT a league ahead of the 8600GTS, and it has DX10 support. The reference cooler on the 8600GTS IS shit, only the few that use aftermarket are worth considering IMO.

In the UK however the 8600GTS is NOT an option, the 1950Pro is cheaper everywhere, even the 512Mb variants, and DX10 just is not worth the extra money at the moment.

Please both of you, Calm down! Don't turn this in to a slagging match.


----------



## zekrahminator (Sep 27, 2007)

I'm going to nicely ask both TKPenalty and Newtekie1 to drop this. 

If either of you don't comply, I'm going to ban each of you the equal term of 2 days. And trust me when I say that reading these boards as a guest is no fun...


----------



## zekrahminator (Sep 27, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Ahem. Zek.



It's all in good fun .


----------



## FreedomEclipse (Sep 27, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> lol it does say x1k & x2k  meaning all of the ranges



well how come the X1800 isnt listed???  you have everything else but the X1800's so I was like uh you must really hate the X1800 series cards.... *cries*


----------



## ghost101 (Sep 27, 2007)

Darknova said:


> Crappy brand, seen many of those blow up....
> 
> Even so, Spend £20-30 more and get a 1950XT. DX10 just doesn't have enough games out to warrant getting a mid-range DX10 card over a high-end DX9.



Sorry but when did PoV become crappy? They are one nvidia's biggest brands. Besides its just an nvidia reference card with a PoV sticker. So its exactly the same as what XFX or eVGA use.


----------



## Darknova (Sep 27, 2007)

ghost101 said:


> Sorry but when did PoV become crappy? They are one nvidia's biggest brands. Besides its just an nvidia reference card with a PoV sticker. So its exactly the same as what XFX or eVGA use.



Since I watched my dad's 6800 burn and his first 7600GT blow up....


----------



## ghost101 (Sep 27, 2007)

Darknova said:


> Since I watched my dad's 6800 burn and his first 7600GT blow up....



Unless the reference cooler was changed oe PoV overclocked it, its nvidia's fault what happened. nvidia make the cards.

You can say that PoV has bad customer service or warranties, but you cant blame the cards since they dont make them.


----------



## Darknova (Sep 27, 2007)

ghost101 said:


> Unless the reference cooler was changed oe PoV overclocked it, its nvidia's fault what happened. nvidia make the cards.
> 
> You can say that PoV has bad customer service or warranties, but you cant blame the cards since they dont make them.



So the fact his XFX is fine, but every PoV he's ever owned has failed/burned/blown up means nothing?


----------



## ghost101 (Sep 27, 2007)

Darknova said:


> So the fact his XFX is fine, but every PoV he's ever owned has failed/burned/blown up means nothing?



In a sample of 2? No, it means absolutely nothing.


----------



## ghost101 (Sep 27, 2007)

let me give you a sample of at least 66. Only 2 people complained of it not working. Remember that people like to complain more than they praise a product.

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/prod...hvd19wcm9kdWN0X3Jldmlld3M=&product_uid=106578


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## mitsirfishi (Sep 27, 2007)

ghost101 said:


> http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/127242
> 
> 8600GTS for £112 delivered
> 
> Ive seen them sell for £105 at dabs but currently theyre out of stock.




ebuyer use to stock the x1950xt at £104.99 256mb but hey they clock like stink

512mb x1950pro's at ocuk for £76 bargins  and they arnt crappy brands i asked the guy and he said they are sapphire branded so not a poor manufacture


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## imperialreign (Sep 27, 2007)

it's a pain in tha butt to convert pounds to dollars!!!

anyhow, round here, the shelf ATI X1950 PRO's are running in the $250 range.  Seriously.  The only reason I nabbed the one I did was the $10 off at the register, and the mail-in $70 rebate, which effectively slashed the price to $170, which wasn't too bad.

Considering the stock copper fansink, and the copper heat spreader on the back of the card - I still think it can manage a nice OC, but it's got to be modded.  I've been happy with it, though . . .

. . . except for the fact that it doesn't support hardware temp monitoring or fan speed monitoring, and no 3rd party program can tweak the memory voltages or timings.  It's pretty much an idiot-proof card.


----------



## tkpenalty (Sep 28, 2007)

anyway i had to get off before i could post anything. I come back on the forums and look at zek's judgement as well as what newtekie posted, now Im really pissed. I get, racial insults and derogatory phrases thrown at me and he doesnt get a slap on his wrist! What the hell? Honestly... 

Even if a 8600GTS costs the same as a X1950PRO in the US on newegg, the stock performance of the X1950PRO is faster by a bit.  As other people said, the stock cooling of the 8600GTS makes it less overclockable by a significant amount. 

ANd anyway...WHO started this? WHO made me lose my cool?


----------



## ghost101 (Sep 28, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> ebuyer use to stock the x1950xt at £104.99 256mb but hey they clock like stink
> 
> 512mb x1950pro's at ocuk for £76 bargins  and they arnt crappy brands i asked the guy and he said they are sapphire branded so not a poor manufacture



Yes the x1950pros are £85 delivered and i never claimed that the 8600gts was better value than them. I was just showing how wrong darknova's post was.


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## Widjaja (Sep 28, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> ANd anyway...WHO started this? WHO made me lose my cool?



If you step down take, it up the backside and apologize for getting upset this silly dispute will probably sort itself out.

Only if your'e that way inclined.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 28, 2007)

newtekie, you have just riled up trouble for this topic, i suggest not posting anything else unless if you want to be banned.



newtekie1 said:


> Wow, if that isn't the biggest load of BS I have ever heard, I don't know what is.
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Biostar/8600GTS_GDDR3/5.html
> 
> ...


----------



## mitsirfishi (Sep 28, 2007)

here is my conclusion at the end of the day we do have these people who heavily bias towards ati/nvidia the x1950pro and 8600gts are both have really strong points and are great condenders where one is slower than the other in certain aspecs and the make up ground in other ways and with anything what is made there is always a flaw in someway like the x1950pro's dont overclock really great and the 8600gts doesnt do to brilliant in shader heavy games at the end of the day all they are are out there is to get you to buy there product  you pay for what you get and you buy what suits your needs if you want a cheap but good dx9 card yes you would favour the x1950 but if your wanting dx10 then you would go for a 8600gts well the 2900pro is in the uk for £148 which is about the same price as a top end 8600gts so that has come into battle now

peace out : mitsirfishi


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## Deleted member 24505 (Sep 28, 2007)

my 1950pro is a good one,was £125.it does 648mhz core and 777mhz mem fine with no mods.i have a vf900-cu on it.

i just beat my 3d06 score with my new p5k-premium board too


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## Tatty_One (Sep 28, 2007)

IMO as soon as you discuss the 2 cards in the same breath, you are asking for trouble!  They are not considered direct competition, it's not actually a Nvidia/Ati thing, you could be having similar discussions about the 1950pro and the 2600XT, your not because the 2600XT is left even farther behind (but I appreciate it is significantly cheaper)....Bottom line is that the 8600GTS is a DX10 card, DX10 games are now starting to hit the market, if you wanna play DX10 like now then the 8600 is the better option, in DX9 generally in real games the 1950pro is your better bet, my opinion (unbiased) is that the 1950pro has no future proofing, the 8600GTS has, in DX9 the 1950pro is better value but if you want a card to last you a year and in that year you want to play new games then the 8600GTS is the card to get (albeit in DX10 at low>mid res usually or higher with not too much candy).  These comments are based on performance not manufacturer!


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## tkpenalty (Sep 28, 2007)

I wasnt even talking about that in the article lol... i was saying something along the lines of "for bang for buck, DX9, for DX10 8600GTS IS FINE" I even highlight the good side; being a godlike overclocker. Is it a Old gen VS New gen war again...?


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## tkpenalty (Sep 28, 2007)

Mitsifishi, tell us how your HD2900PRO Performs!


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## mitsirfishi (Sep 28, 2007)

i ordered the 1gb ddr4 fat 2900pro with fast stripes  in  along with a p5k-e and e6750 so ill tell you how i get on but i wont have the card for nearly up to 2 weeks *cries* but ill have my cpu and board to toture with my pro's for there final runs before they will be sold *cries* ledgends i might keep one for a idea i might have


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 29, 2007)

About freaking time, HIS finally sent a reply (5 days after the report i made) they have a Middle Company out of California called Lexy Pacific Corp (www.lexycomp.com) thats where the graphics cards get distrubuted from to all the e-tailers etc. I should be able to send the board out this coming week


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## BlackDevilOR (Sep 29, 2007)

First of all, hi all and congrats on the thread 
By next week i'll be in possesion of my MSI RX1950PRO - AGP  and i've got some questions about it, maybe you coul help me clear them out ...
My sistem configuration will be as following:
CPU- AMD Athlon 3000+
RAM- 1.5GB DDR
HDD- WD 80GB 8mb buffer
     - Seagate 500GB 16mb buffer
GPU- MSI RX1950PRO AGP
Optical drives: CD-RW and a DVD-rom
Power supply: 400W

Will my current PSU be able to take the load? Is there any program that can determinate this ?

I'll think about some more questions when i'm not this tired 
Thanks in advance


----------



## grunt_408 (Sep 29, 2007)

BlackDeviLoR..... Your PSU will most likely fail to supply your card with the power it needs under load. (correct me if I am wrong) It is printed on the specs for the x1950 that at least450W PSU is needed. I currently have a 470W Thermaltake which does the job for my x1950.


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## BlackDevilOR (Sep 29, 2007)

Thanks for the fast reply 
I really don't know what it specifies on the box because i don't have it yet 
What could happen with the GPU under load if i where to continue useing my current PSU ? Reboot in the middle of the process ?


----------



## grunt_408 (Sep 29, 2007)

I guess so... Freeze ups may be imminent. Or could be worse even the device may not start at all.
I have always gone with the recommended specs. I have not tried to start my card under powered.


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## BlackDevilOR (Sep 29, 2007)

yea well i just found this ... http://shop.ati.com/product.asp?sku=3122113

looks like i'm in the market for a cheap psu


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## imperialreign (Sep 29, 2007)

It doesn't hurt to give it a shot anyhow, the card only pulls the extra juice in 3D mode.  It might be able function properly without any adverse effects, seeing as how I doubt your system will be under 100% PSU draw when the card goes into 3D.

If you do give it a shot with the 400W, and it's not enough, you should more than likely end up with the typical symptoms of a weak/inadequate PSU.  Random lockups and system hangs, possible BSoD every now and then, the whole system just turning off, etc.

Still, though, it's usually better safe than sorry.


----------



## grunt_408 (Sep 30, 2007)

A cheapy may let you down I would go for a good one. If you get a good one to begin with then you wont be doing it again for a while.


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## imperialreign (Sep 30, 2007)

seconded!!


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## DaMulta (Sep 30, 2007)

Anyone have some superAA 24x sceen shots?


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## imperialreign (Sep 30, 2007)

24x is only with the HDs, right?


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## DaMulta (Sep 30, 2007)

yes


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## tkpenalty (Sep 30, 2007)

BlackDevilOR said:


> First of all, hi all and congrats on the thread
> By next week i'll be in possesion of my MSI RX1950PRO - AGP  and i've got some questions about it, maybe you coul help me clear them out ...
> My sistem configuration will be as following:
> CPU- AMD Athlon 3000+
> ...



Grab yourself a VX450W from Corsair on newegg. Very powerful PSU and an affordable price at the same time.


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## The_Shady_1 (Sep 30, 2007)

Here is my rig:
	

	
	
		
		

		
			









Sapphire x1950xt 256MB


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 30, 2007)

Well man with the HIS i had, They Recommended a 450 Watt that has 30 amps combined amperage for the rails.



BlackDevilOR said:


> First of all, hi all and congrats on the thread
> By next week i'll be in possesion of my MSI RX1950PRO - AGP  and i've got some questions about it, maybe you coul help me clear them out ...
> My sistem configuration will be as following:
> CPU- AMD Athlon 3000+
> ...


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 30, 2007)

shady, buy your self a roll of hook n loop tape and clean up that gaggle infront of the video card.


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## tkpenalty (Sep 30, 2007)

Shady... fix up that mass of wires, also read the rules...


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 30, 2007)

my cable cleanup aint the best but its out of airflow path hehe Not bad for a case from 2001


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## BlackDevilOR (Sep 30, 2007)

Well i took a picture of the label on my psu .. i see it's under the desired 30A of the x1950 

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?470677ed60.jpg

btw: the Corsair VX450W is quite hard to get in my country and costs +100$ 
LE: Romania 
LLE: i've found one for about 120$ ... it's quite over budget


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## Wile E (Sep 30, 2007)

BlackDevilOR said:


> Well i took a picture of the label on my psu .. i see it's under the desired 30A of the x1950
> 
> http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?470677ed60.jpg
> 
> btw: the Crosair VX450W is quite hard to get in my country and costs +100$



What country?


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## mitsirfishi (Sep 30, 2007)

very untidy job there and stock heatsink on cpu err  stock is not a option !!!!!


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## Widjaja (Sep 30, 2007)

BlackDevilOR said:


> Well i took a picture of the label on my psu .. i see it's under the desired 30A of the x1950
> 
> btw: the Corsair VX450W is quite hard to get in my country and costs +100$
> Romania
> i've found one for about 120$ ... it's quite over budget



I was using a +12v/15a 450W PSU which was doing fine but out of safety I chose the enermax I have.

ATi Recommends +12v/30a for a fully loaded system.
e.g a system using all PCI slots, has alot of HDD's, couple of DVD writers etc. . . .

My rig runs fine with an Enermax which has 2x +12v/18a


----------



## Widjaja (Sep 30, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> very untidy job there and stock heatsink on cpu err  stock is not a option !!!!!



Damn Shady 1 what a that mess!
Cable sleeving, heatshrink, cable ties and some electrical tape.
Stock H/S will be fine for stock CPU speeds. . . . .but thats it.
Probably get a little warm in the summer months even at stock speeds with the standard H/S.

I know my CPU does.


----------



## BlackDevilOR (Sep 30, 2007)

Yea, i've been reading into this and i think i will try the card with my current PSU and if it starts  acting up i'll buy a new one.
Can't wait untli it gets here  (i've been running on a MX440 since my 9800PRO went bust)
I'll return with a update once i get it


----------



## Wile E (Sep 30, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> Damn Shady 1 what a that mess!
> Cable sleeving, heatshrink, cable ties and some electrical tape.
> Stock H/S will be fine for stock CPU speeds. . . . .but thats it.
> Probably get a little warm in the summer months even at stock speeds with the standard H/S.
> ...


He has a 6000+. It comes with the opteron heatpipe cooler. I can attest the fact that it works perfectly fine at stock speeds. Overclocking is a no-no tho, like you said.


----------



## Wile E (Sep 30, 2007)

BlackDevilOR said:


> Yea, i've been reading into this and i think i will try the card with my current PSU and if it starts  acting up i'll buy a new one.
> Can't wait untli it gets here  (i've been running on a MX440 since my 9800PRO went bust)
> I'll return with a update once i get it


ANd when you return with an update, if you have psu troubles, give us a price range, and a few links to shops that ship to your country, and we can help you find a new one.


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## BlackDevilOR (Sep 30, 2007)

How about this one ? http://www.sirtec.com/HPC-460-P12S.php
Seems quite a bargain at about 50-60 $ and seems to supply enough juice.


----------



## Wile E (Sep 30, 2007)

BlackDevilOR said:


> How about this one ? http://www.sirtec.com/HPC-460-P12S.php
> Seems quite a bargain at about 50-60 $ and seems to supply enough juice.


31A on the 12v combined, but I can't find any info on the unit, such as the OEM manufacturer, or even any reviews, so I can't comment on it's reliability.


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## tkpenalty (Sep 30, 2007)

That PSU would be sufficient. Honestly, I would instead grab a "Generic" PSU that is manufactured by seasonic, due to the fact that they are built under the same quality. However, I wouldnt cheap out on the PSU... if you can save up, hold off the X1950PRO and PSU for now, until you have enough funds for the VX450.

BlackDevilOR, add your system specs, go to your control panel, I just dont really like scrolling up and down continuosly to check for your system specifications.


----------



## Wile E (Sep 30, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> That PSU would be sufficient. Honestly, I would instead grab a "Generic" PSU that is manufactured by seasonic, due to the fact that they are built under the same quality. However, I wouldnt cheap out on the PSU... if you can save up, hold off the X1950PRO and PSU for now, until you have enough funds for the VX450.
> 
> BlackDevilOR, add your system specs, go to your control panel, I just dont really like scrolling up and down continuosly to check for your system specifications.


FSP psus are also worth looking into.


----------



## imperialreign (Oct 1, 2007)

for anyone interested, I ran across a thread on a different forum with some info on v-modding the capacitor lined newer PCBs used with the 1950 PRO's

http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=130982

so far, this is the only info I've found on _these_ PCB's as there seems to be quite a bit of difference between some of the brands, and the 1950 GT's.  I might give this a bit of a shot next weekend, but if the most of that info in that thread is correct, it doesn't seem like the mid-range PRO's are all that tweakable compared to their tier 1 brethren.


----------



## Lopez0101 (Oct 1, 2007)

This is sort of a random question with the current flow but this seems odd to me. I hooked up my rig to my cousin's big HDTV and the max res was 1920x1280 so I figured I'd run 3DMark06, almost got 10K, was around 9700~. I remembered some other scores I got and did 1280x1024 4xAA and 8xAF and I get 5400~ and it didn't look quite as jaggie-less. Since more people have displays that don't run at res'es exceeding 1600x1200 why not make cards run faster with antialiasing rather than run better without it at higher resolutions?

Also, I'm running my rig on a 550W Xclio, I plan on upgrading to a 700 or 750W (I need a PSU for my other computer anyways) but I'm just wondering if the 550W is affecting the performance of my 2900XT or the system as a whole. I don't really think it is since I've yet to have any issues. Any thoughts?


----------



## grunt_408 (Oct 1, 2007)

This is another random question but have ATI fixed the drivers yet for AGP X1950?


----------



## mitsirfishi (Oct 1, 2007)

550watt should do the job aslong as you have strong 12v+ rails


----------



## tkpenalty (Oct 1, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> This is another random question but have ATI fixed the drivers yet for AGP X1950?



Yes... 7.9s fixed it up.


----------



## grunt_408 (Oct 1, 2007)

Oh o.k I will give it a go.... I have heard of someone getting a blank screen after re-start with 7.9 drivers..with the HIS X1950 pro AGP Card.


----------



## DaMulta (Oct 1, 2007)

OK guys what would happen if I ran the GDDR4 naked?


----------



## BlackDevilOR (Oct 1, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> That PSU would be sufficient. Honestly, I would instead grab a "Generic" PSU that is manufactured by seasonic, due to the fact that they are built under the same quality. However, I wouldnt cheap out on the PSU... if you can save up, hold off the X1950PRO and PSU for now, until you have enough funds for the VX450.
> 
> BlackDevilOR, add your system specs, go to your control panel, I just dont really like scrolling up and down continuosly to check for your system specifications.



Well the card has already been bought by a friend of mine in Germany. He'll bring it from there when he comes back home this Saturday...
I think i'll have a look around the city tomorrow and visit a couple of stores to see what PSU's they have in stock.

I added my system specs 

btw ... what problems were there with the previous drivers for the agp x1950 ?


----------



## mandelore (Oct 1, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> OK guys what would happen if I ran the GDDR4 naked?



severe severe artifacting and ultimatley death.


please dont be mean to your new card


----------



## AphexDreamer (Oct 1, 2007)

mandelore said:


> severe severe artifacting and ultimatley death.
> 
> 
> please dont be mean to your new card



So does GDDR 4 run hotter then GDDR3 or are they practicly the same?


----------



## DaMulta (Oct 1, 2007)

mandelore said:


> severe severe artifacting and ultimatley death.
> 
> 
> please dont be mean to your new card



They run GDDR3 naked


I wish the new cards were like this


----------



## mandelore (Oct 1, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> They run GDDR3 naked
> 
> 
> I wish the new cards were like this



huh? on a 2900?? no.. there is a plate that goes over the ram chips....with that soft ram shit they always stick between em


----------



## mandelore (Oct 1, 2007)

well just to say, even if you dont kill it, you wont be overclocking it anytime soon, better cooling allowed a much higher oc for me, so i imagine even without the stock cooling stock speeds or slightly above may be an issue..


----------



## DaMulta (Oct 1, 2007)

I wish they did what they did with the X1950xtx. Have sep heatsinks for the ram.


----------



## mandelore (Oct 1, 2007)

what appears to be the problem mate? are you moving to a non-stock cooler? or watercooling the gpu?

what about trying low profile ramsinks like zalman ones?


----------



## DaMulta (Oct 1, 2007)

The block I have is just for the GPU. I hate the Zalman heatsinks...so I have spend more $$$$.


----------



## tkpenalty (Oct 1, 2007)

Um DaMulta, the HD2900 doesnt require the ram plate to be removed... you can install the water block without removing the ram cooling. You only need to remove the plastic shield as well as the copper block. Nothing else.


----------



## DaMulta (Oct 1, 2007)

Have any pics of that...I don't have the cards yet.

First one will be here tomorrow most likely.


----------



## DOM (Oct 1, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> Have any pics of that...I don't have the cards yet.
> 
> First one will be here tomorrow most likely.


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/HD2900/2900_Maze4.jpg


http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=31121


----------



## DaMulta (Oct 1, 2007)

Sweet


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## DaMulta (Oct 1, 2007)

Hell yea my block is going to work






[/img]


----------



## Widjaja (Oct 1, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Oh o.k I will give it a go.... I have heard of someone getting a blank screen after re-start with 7.9 drivers..with the HIS X1950 pro AGP Card.



I think I read the thread at tech powerup too.
Then someone else said it has problems with AGP/Vista but not AGP/XP.

I installed 7.9cat about an hour ago and ran through NFSMW, NFSC, V8 Supercars 3, Dark Messiah and 3dmark06.
Appears even smoother in the Need for speed series, no noticable differences in the other two games.
3dmark06 went up from 5002 to 5004 with my rig at 2.45Ghz. . . . .yay.

Not an impressive improvement but an improvement none the less.


----------



## tkpenalty (Oct 1, 2007)

Haha... Oh well. And Da multa, if you remove that plate, consider that you will have to buy heaps of heatsinks for EVERY VRM chip... the Memory can run naked however. But honestly, its not worth removing it. I'd love to see some results though.


----------



## DaMulta (Oct 1, 2007)

One of my friends forgot to put heat sinks on the VR(X1950Master) and it spit out a 1in flame and welded the card LOL


----------



## tkpenalty (Oct 1, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> One of my friends forgot to put heat sinks on the VR(X1950Master) and it spit out a 1in flame and welded the card LOL


----------



## DaMulta (Oct 2, 2007)

I have just learned that the PROS have an aluminum heat sink instead of the copper one.


----------



## tkpenalty (Oct 2, 2007)

they do? I doubt it, unless you got the card.


----------



## Widjaja (Oct 2, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> I have just learned that the PROS have an aluminum heat sink instead of the copper one.



I hope AMD/ATi aint going to start cheaping out after this hard year for them.
Last thing we all need is for AMD/ATi to call it quits.

There needs to be that competiton between Intel/nVidia and AMD/ATi to keep technology progressing.


----------



## tkpenalty (Oct 2, 2007)

I highly doubt it. There was one source that stated this but that sorce got turned down REAL quick after many innacuracies it had in relation to the HD2900PRO. The HD2900PRO would absolutely fry if it was using an aluminium heatsink, it is simply not feasible if it did.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 2, 2007)

Cough , its AMD/ATI vs Nvidia, AMD vs Intel, Nvidia vs Intel. Intel and ATI have gotten along since the Founding of ATI back in the 80s.


Widjaja said:


> I hope AMD/ATi aint going to start cheaping out after this hard year for them.
> Last thing we all need is for AMD/ATi to call it quits.
> 
> There needs to be that competiton between Intel/nVidia and AMD/ATi to keep technology progressing.


----------



## Tatty_One (Oct 2, 2007)

I think I am going to be joining you TK, I reckon I am going to order a 2900XT, I have found one in the UK on special offer £50 cheaper than normal retail, thats like $100US cheaper and over here is not a great deal more than the Pro (about $40US).  The Pro really does interest me but I dont think it will be as quick overclocked as the XT, I know it's very early days yet but the odd couple of things I have read suggests the Pro will overclock at least to XT stock speeds but not an aweful lot beyond, maybe I should wait until DaMulta gets his to find out!

http://my.ocworkbench.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=421231


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 2, 2007)

Unless if a Revision 2 is released for the 2900 Pro and XT boards


Tatty_One said:


> I think I am going to be joining you TK, I reckon I am going to order a 2900XT, I have found one in the UK on special offer £50 cheaper than normal retail, thats like $100US cheaper and over here is not a great deal more than the Pro (about $40US).  The Pro really does interest me but I dont think it will be as quick overclocked as the XT, I know it's very early days yet but the odd couple of things I have read suggests the Pro will overclock at least to XT stock speeds but not an aweful lot beyond, maybe I should wait until DaMulta gets his to find out!
> 
> http://my.ocworkbench.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=421231


----------



## DaMulta (Oct 2, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> I highly doubt it. There was one source that stated this but that sorce got turned down REAL quick after many innacuracies it had in relation to the HD2900PRO. The HD2900PRO would absolutely fry if it was using an aluminium heatsink, it is simply not feasible if it did.



That's what was said at Rage3D...It's the first I have heard about it.


----------



## Wile E (Oct 2, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> I think I am going to be joining you TK, I reckon I am going to order a 2900XT, I have found one in the UK on special offer £50 cheaper than normal retail, thats like $100US cheaper and over here is not a great deal more than the Pro (about $40US).  The Pro really does interest me but I dont think it will be as quick overclocked as the XT, I know it's very early days yet but the odd couple of things I have read suggests the Pro will overclock at least to XT stock speeds but not an aweful lot beyond, maybe I should wait until DaMulta gets his to find out!
> 
> http://my.ocworkbench.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=421231


$40 extra for the XT is worth it, imho. I say go for it.


----------



## Tatty_One (Oct 2, 2007)

Wile E said:


> $40 extra for the XT is worth it, imho. I say go for it.



Yeah my thoughts, I just dont like 2nd guessing, I know the performance of the XT, I will wait a day or two I think for DaMulta's revelations on the Pro, but like I said, there is not a great deal of price difference in relation to this uber cheap XT I have found, downside is it's a 2 week delivery/turnaround time but hey I can wait.


----------



## tkpenalty (Oct 2, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> That's what was said at Rage3D...It's the first I have heard about it.



Oh that... No its incorrect. There was some flare up of some fact vs fiction war on another forum... apparently the source that says that the HD2900PRO uses an aluminium cooler was false. As in the information itself, I could tell they were only guesses. The source from memory claimed that the HD2900PRO would have a 256bit bus, and only needing one PCI-E connector. This is OBVIOUSLY false. It also mentioned the use of an aluminium cooler. However, from the HD2900PROs that are avaliable, I conclude that they are just downclocked and heavily underpriced HD2900XTs. 

HD2900GT will be interesting however, with such a low pricetag of $199 USD. It apparently is a HD2900XT with one quad disabled... interesting, So from 16x2, ROP, 16 TU, 320 Shaders, down to 12x2 ROP, 12TU, 24 Shaders. Err I'm guessing that the core will be laser cut however.

Rant:

One thing that is sort of odd however, the HD2950PRO's RV670 is apparently supposed to be 55nm, and the apparent competitor, the 8800GT having a process of 65nm... Well if we put it into last gen's prespective, the X1950PRO had 80nm and the 7900GS had a 90nm process. The X1950PRO was priced more than the 7900GS, same case for the HD2950PRO vs the 8800GT, according to sources. This does mean we MAY have a repeat of what happened last year.


----------



## Widjaja (Oct 2, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> Cough , its AMD/ATI vs Nvidia, AMD vs Intel, Nvidia vs Intel. Intel and ATI have gotten along since the Founding of ATI back in the 80s.



So I stand corrected, have a lozenge.

DaMulta
I've posted my VGA BIOS if your'e wanting to help rangerone outwith getting his X1950pro AGP to work with the 7.9cat.


----------



## tkpenalty (Oct 2, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Yeah my thoughts, I just dont like 2nd guessing, I know the performance of the XT, I will wait a day or two I think for DaMulta's revelations on the Pro, but like I said, there is not a great deal of price difference in relation to this uber cheap XT I have found, downside is it's a 2 week delivery/turnaround time but hey I can wait.



Tatty, I wouldn't go for a low tier, cheap HD2900XT. I would instead go for the highest priced HD2900PRO thats the best, as in the Sapphire HD2900XT GDDR4 1GB. Just to note, the HD2900PRO is an experiment; Sell the same product for a lower price and cripple it in a way that can be "uncrippled". That means, the HD2900PRO will clock to HD2900XT speeds without any issues, as they are intially the same thing.



Widjaja said:


> I hope AMD/ATi aint going to start cheaping out after this hard year for them.
> Last thing we all need is for AMD/ATi to call it quits.
> 
> There needs to be that competiton between Intel/nVidia and AMD/ATi to keep technology progressing.



AMD/ATI are not responsible for "Cheaping out" they merely manufacture, the chips, design the PCB and software, then send the chips and pcb designs to the manufacturers. It is the manufacturers who actually do the cooling, so if the manufacturer cheaps out, it isnt AMD's fault at all. AMD and ATI are regaining stability and there wasnt any massive crisis. Sure, AMD has lost much market share, but they are far from being out of the game. There IS competition between AMD and Nvidia, if you havent noticed, nvidia keeps changing their products to try to outdo the AMD products.


----------



## DaMulta (Oct 2, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> So I stand corrected, have a lozenge.
> 
> DaMulta
> I've posted my VGA BIOS if your'e wanting to help rangerone outwith getting his X1950pro AGP to work with the 7.9cat.



I'll wait for him to repost. I don't know if that will work, because I have never heard of that problem with the PRo.


----------



## Tatty_One (Oct 2, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Tatty, I wouldn't go for a low tier, cheap HD2900XT. I would instead go for the highest priced HD2900PRO thats the best, as in the Sapphire HD2900XT GDDR4 1GB. Just to note, the HD2900PRO is an experiment; Sell the same product for a lower price and cripple it in a way that can be "uncrippled". That means, the HD2900PRO will clock to HD2900XT speeds without any issues, as they are intially the same thing.



The same thing with a lower grade core that cannot stabily and consistently run at XT speeds (certainly not XT overclocked speeds anyways) otherwise they would make more money on them, the way I see it (and DaMulta might prove me wrong when he gets his ) I am guessing that the Pro WON'T be able to hit a core of 825Mhz+.


----------



## tkpenalty (Oct 2, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> The same thing with a lower grade core that cannot stabily and consistently run at XT speeds (certainly not XT overclocked speeds anyways) otherwise they would make more money on them, the way I see it (and DaMulta might prove me wrong when he gets his ) I am guessing that the Pro WON'T be able to hit a core of 825Mhz+.



I doubt a lower core grade would make the HD2900PRO that cheap. I'll wait for DaMulta's HD2900PRO to arrive before jumping to any conclusions, but some earlybird reviewers have said that it virtually does the same as a HD2900XT.


----------



## DaMulta (Oct 2, 2007)

I don't know why I think this....I'm wondering if you flash it as a XT, then maybe you can get a better OC on them.
-----


----------



## Wile E (Oct 2, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> I doubt a lower core grade would make the HD2900PRO that cheap. I'll wait for DaMulta's HD2900PRO to arrive before jumping to any conclusions, but some earlybird reviewers have said that it virtually does the same as a HD2900XT.


Yeah, but many of the early bird reviews are from review samples, which are cherry-picked. Most early reviews of the XT were getting between 875-900 (and some even higher) on stock cooling. My powercolor does 850.


----------



## tkpenalty (Oct 2, 2007)

Anyway totally off topic, what do you think of my wallpaper-converted-to-avatar?


----------



## Tatty_One (Oct 2, 2007)

I was basing my comment on the link in post 2128 suggesting 750mhz but of course a "B Grade" chip would justify the reduction in cost otherwise ATi's alternative is to what?.....throw them in the bin!

Although I agree, we wont really know for sure until we see them in action but Wile E has a good point.....do you really think that manufacturers are gonna send out reviewing samples that dont overclock well?  Lol they have probably sent out genuine XT's just re-flashed with the Pro BIOS to Ensure they overclock well!   fairly commonplace in recent years allegedly from both sides of the fence where they have had a similar downclocked product allegedly.


----------



## tkpenalty (Oct 3, 2007)

DaMulta... when are you getting it?


----------



## Widjaja (Oct 3, 2007)

TK you wanna discuss the probs with the 7.9's and agp?
I installed it on my backup OS on my other HDD and still no troubles as my main OS seems to have issues with uninstalling drivers.

What could be so wrong or different about these flashy looking HIS AGP models I wonder?

Apparently he was only having graphical issues with DiRT.
Same with Innocent Crim who has a Sapphire Pro.

Never heard of the game until now and by the looks of it I'll be buying it.
See if mine does the same.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 3, 2007)

ok ATI Specifically mentioned with X1950 Pro AGP cards that they are not compatible with either Catalyst 7.8s or 7.9s, perhaps you should read their release notes


Widjaja said:


> TK you wanna discuss the probs with the 7.9's and agp?
> I installed it on my backup OS on my other HDD and still no troubles as my main OS seems to have issues with uninstalling drivers.
> 
> What could be so wrong or different about these flashy looking HIS AGP models I wonder?
> ...


----------



## Widjaja (Oct 3, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> ok ATI Specifically mentioned with X1950 Pro AGP cards that they are not compatible with either Catalyst 7.8s or 7.9s, perhaps you should read their release notes



Ok you should look at the "when is Ati gonna give us new drivers for X1950 agp."
I'm using the 7.9 driver with no problems and so is Morgoth and have added an attachment at that Thread as proof.
TK had also said yes 7.9's are fixed.
TK also asked us to disscuss this issue at this club house which is why I posted here.
Perhaps you should read the previous posts before posting.

Trying to make someone look stupid are we?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 3, 2007)

So is this after patching? I decided after the 7.8s and 7.9s wouldnt work with AGP 1950 Pros to run 7.6 drivers


Widjaja said:


> Ok you should look at the "when is Ati gonna give us new drivers for X1950 agp."
> I'm using the 7.9 driver with no problems and so is Morgoth and have added an attachment at that Thread as proof.
> TK had also said yes 7.9's are fixed.
> TK also asked us to disscuss this issue at this club house which is why I posted here.
> ...


----------



## Widjaja (Oct 3, 2007)

No patch.
I downloaded the 7.9 just display drivers since I use ATi Tray Tools to do any tweaking.

But yeah after reading the X1950pro AGPs not being compatible with 7.9cat I held off for a while and stuck to the 7.6cat.

Then Morgoth posted he's using them so I decided to try them out and they are also working for me with a marginal performance increase in some games and a slightly higher 3dmark.

I immediately tried out various games to see if I would get any graphical issues but none have come up besides NFSC freezing once which it does on rare occasions even with 7.6cat.

So far from what I have read, HIS AGP X1950's are having the issue with the 7.9cats.
Craigleberry hasn't been in for a while, hope his system hadn't taken a dive after installing the 7.9's.


----------



## tkpenalty (Oct 3, 2007)

HIS Cards seem to be problematic for some odd reason as Widjaja stated... I dont know what would cause them to do this. X1950PRO AGP Owners, tell me if the 7.9 Drivers work for you. 

However if 7.9s dont work for you I suggest using 7.6 Drivers instead.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 3, 2007)

well since my board took a dive, ive been using a AIW 9800 Pro (R360 Core)


----------



## Widjaja (Oct 3, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> HIS Cards seem to be problematic for some odd reason as Widjaja stated... I dont know what would cause them to do this. X1950PRO AGP Owners, tell me if the 7.9 Drivers work for you.
> 
> However if 7.9s dont work for you I suggest using 7.6 Drivers instead.



I wonder if it's to do with the Rialto Bridge chipset.
When extracting my VGA BIOS there were two.
One R570 and one with Rialto at the end.
For some reason the card wouldn't let me extract the Rialto BIOS, instead my rig would freeze up and reboot.

I wondering if there is a difference in the Rialto BIOS in the HIS X1950pro agp cards.

Who knows we'll have to wait and see I guess.


----------



## grunt_408 (Oct 3, 2007)

I am running 7.6 ATM not game to try changing to 7.9. Last time I changed drivers around I ended up RMA'ing my card.


----------



## tkpenalty (Oct 3, 2007)

Craigleberry, last time the problems began before you changed the drivers, have a shot at the 7.9 Drivers...


----------



## Widjaja (Oct 3, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> I am running 7.6 ATM not game to try changing to 7.9. Last time I changed drivers around I ended up RMA'ing my card.



I can understand you in being apprehensive about installing these drivers.
I guess you could make a thread to see if there is anyone out there using 7.9cat with your card or any HIS X1950 AGP card for that matter.

Didn't your last card go bung with the 7.7 drivers?
I think rangerone's card is the same as yours and has no luck with the 7.9's ethier.

I think it has to do with the Rialto bridge chipset.


----------



## mitsirfishi (Oct 3, 2007)

here is updated 19261 with my new cpu and mobo smashed my old 17400 with my old amd 6000 x2  http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=3519547


----------



## rangerone766 (Oct 3, 2007)

*can i join too*

well the beta 7.10 drivers seem to have fixed my problems. i can run crysis now on medium/high settings averaging 40-45 fps or soo. dropping to 25 fps if i have a few people shooting at me.


----------



## rangerone766 (Oct 3, 2007)

*i just tested it*

dirt runs great now. i quess it was just a driver issue. thanks for all your help guys


----------



## Autiem Sel (Oct 4, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> HIS Cards seem to be problematic for some odd reason as Widjaja stated... I dont know what would cause them to do this. X1950PRO AGP Owners, tell me if the 7.9 Drivers work for you. However if 7.9s dont work for you I suggest using 7.6 Drivers instead.



No, the 7.9 drivers didn't work for me (no icons on desktop!), fingers crossed they'll have sorted agp with 7.10.

I just installed an Accelero x2 which came with a 'vr heat spreader module'. I didn't need to use it, I guess its for differently designed models, but would it do a better job than the stock heatsink? The plate covers the big chip at the bottom that the stock sink doesn't.


----------



## Widjaja (Oct 4, 2007)

Autiem Sel said:


> No, the 7.9 drivers didn't work for me (no icons on desktop!), fingers crossed they'll have sorted agp with 7.10.
> 
> I just installed an Accelero x2 which came with a 'vr heat spreader module'. I didn't need to use it, I guess its for differently designed models, but would it do a better job than the stock heatsink? The plate covers the big chip at the bottom that the stock sink doesn't.



From what Rangerone has found out, the BETA 7.10 does work for HIS AGP.
So the final 7.10cat should work for your card.

Do you know where the VRM's are on your card?
They should be at the PCI-E connector end and relativley small.
I read something about your card already having a copper plate over the VRMs.

I don't know what the Accelero VR plate is made from possibly aluminium but I'm guessing the HIS one would be better at dispersing heat as its copper.

Anway even you stock cooler pwns my rev1 Sapphire ref cooler.
Sometimes getting up to 82deg and thats normal, no issues so far though.


----------



## Widjaja (Oct 4, 2007)

Anyone.
Does the X1950pro AGP only have 8 pixel pipelines?
If so then my 7600GS has 4 more?


----------



## Autiem Sel (Oct 4, 2007)

Aar good news about the 7.10's. 

Yes, the accelero plate is made of aluminium, so i'll leave the original copper sink alone, cheers.

The stock cooler (iceq3) had a slight rattle when I first got it, which got worse and developed into a horrible grinding. (Even after taking it apart and cleaning it) Maybe I just got a bad one... But the Accelero X2 is great, a few degrees cooler and SO much quieter.


----------



## Widjaja (Oct 4, 2007)

Autiem Sel said:


> Aar good news about the 7.10's.
> The stock cooler (iceq3) had a slight rattle when I first got it, which got worse and developed into a horrible grinding. (Even after taking it apart and cleaning it) Maybe I just got a bad one....



Dude your'e not the only one.
I was at another forum where someone posted a thread about his HIS IceQ3 cooler making a continuous rattling sound even if the fan sped up it would stay the same, so your'e not the only one which that issue.

Pity, those HIS coolers look the bling.

My card plays somegames with irritating stutters or pauses when loading textures to the vram, which is my only gripe with it.
Always done this with drivers 7.1 to 7.10 minus 7.7 & 7.8.


----------



## DaMulta (Oct 4, 2007)

CHARACTERISTICS:

． Strong cooling performance, reaching the maximum cooling effect of the CPU core. 

．Three Evaporators, synchronous cooling  of 1CPU,2GPU. 

． Low power consumption, low noise and   High-performance freezing compressor is used. 



A PURPOSE:

1.For computer overclocking.

three evaporators -100℃ cooling unit


----------



## Wile E (Oct 4, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> CHARACTERISTICS:
> 
> ． Strong cooling performance, reaching the maximum cooling effect of the CPU core.
> 
> ...


Where do I buy it?


----------



## DaMulta (Oct 4, 2007)

http://coolerexpress.org/en-2.5-3stage.htm

I WANT ONE!!!!

I think you use the contact us button.

http://coolerexpress.org/en-index.htm


----------



## grunt_408 (Oct 4, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> I can understand you in being apprehensive about installing these drivers.
> I guess you could make a thread to see if there is anyone out there using 7.9cat with your card or any HIS X1950 AGP card for that matter.
> 
> Didn't your last card go bung with the 7.7 drivers?
> ...



I have and this is why I am not game to try 7.9 
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=614324
My last card ran like a charm with 7.7 then..... I came home from work to discover that it had mega artifacts and after removing 7.7 I ended up having to RMA.
I think you may be on to something with your rialto chipset theory.


----------



## grunt_408 (Oct 4, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> http://coolerexpress.org/en-2.5-3stage.htm
> 
> I WANT ONE!!!!
> 
> ...



OMG check out how  much it weighs


----------



## Wile E (Oct 4, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> OMG check out how  much it weighs


150lbs?!?!?!?!?! That can't be right. That's craziness.


----------



## Widjaja (Oct 4, 2007)

Crazy.
Looks exactly like the generator under the cold cabinet at work, also looks like it was put together in the back of someones garage.


----------



## DaMulta (Oct 4, 2007)

My stacker would fit right on top


----------



## Widjaja (Oct 4, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> I have and this is why I am not game to try 7.9
> http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=614324
> My last card ran like a charm with 7.7 then..... I came home from work to discover that it had mega artifacts and after removing 7.7 I ended up having to RMA.
> I think you may be on to something with your rialto chipset theory.




Ahh I see.
Not much help aye?
Won't be going back there anytime soon.
I've come across many forums like that.
This is one of the more social sites.

7.10 BETA worked for Rangerone with his HIS X1950pro IceQ3 AGP so you can either giver those a go or wait till the finialized 7.10 come out which won't be long at all.

With the 7.9's I had a increase in all benchmarks.
3Dmark 05 went up the most from 10012 to 10039 so nothing significant and niether in gaming.


----------



## mitsirfishi (Oct 4, 2007)

that thing is quality


----------



## imperialreign (Oct 5, 2007)

meh . . . just grab an old GM A-12 AC compressor, some kind of powerful DC motor, a 4" evaporator and rig the thing to the front of your case.  It'll keep EVERYTHING a nice and chilly -1C without breaking a sweat.  Oh, and remove the back of your case if you want it to cool your room also  


It'll be loud, though . . .


----------



## tkpenalty (Oct 7, 2007)

None of the guys have told me how the HD2900PRO performs... =.=


----------



## Tatty_One (Oct 8, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> that thing is quality



It's a car in disguise!!!


----------



## Widjaja (Oct 8, 2007)

Not much activity going on but I always see guests lurking for ages in this clubhouse.
Weird.
At the time of posting this there were eight.


----------



## DaMulta (Oct 8, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> None of the guys have told me how the HD2900PRO performs... =.=



http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=41214


----------



## BlackDevilOR (Oct 8, 2007)

well i've just got my rx1950 pro and it works a charm  even with the old PSU.
I'm having some troubles dough with the monitor, i don't know why but it sees it as a secondary monitor  and i can't seem to get battlefield2142 to start up  the screen goes black for a few seconds and then it returns to desktop. help


----------



## DaMulta (Oct 8, 2007)

2142 

go to my docs and delete the 2142 folder and start it again.

for what monitor is the main one, go into CCC and go to display. Set the monitor you want to game on as the primary.


----------



## BlackDevilOR (Oct 8, 2007)

well i already tried deleting bf2142 form my docs and nothing ... even tried reinstalling the darn thing and still nothing.
and i can't set the monitor as primary, it just won't let me :| don't know why.

I'll install company of heroes in a few mins to see how the gpu stands up 

and i only have one monitor plugged in


----------



## DaMulta (Oct 8, 2007)

Well the BF series has a bad thing with F-ing up on installs. I have had to reinstall XP many of times over BF.

What slot do you have your monitor installed on? It should be primary no matter what.


----------



## BlackDevilOR (Oct 8, 2007)

i think i'm going to have to reinstall xp in order for my x1950 to work  when i'm trying to acces games it's either failiure to initialize Direct 3D eiter fatal error ...
I'll keep u guys updates as i go along ...


----------



## imperialreign (Oct 8, 2007)

unless you've already done so, try installing the Aug DirectX update.  Even though BF isn't covered in the Catalyst 7.9 hotfix, that might be worth a shot too.  From what experiences I've had with Direct3D failing to initialize, it's usually a driver conflict of somesort - although, I'm not saying there isn't something else that could be causing it.


----------



## tkpenalty (Oct 9, 2007)

Hold your horses there for a moment, BlackDevilOR. I would first off uninstall the drivers, screw stuff like driver cleaner, go to Add/Remove and just uninstall all the ATI software.... use the 7.6 Drivers as well, to test it.


----------



## Widjaja (Oct 9, 2007)

Driver cleaner doesn't even work for me.
Shows the file being deleted, go to the folder where the file was supposed to be deleted from and as always, it's still there.
I just use the ATi uninstall and if that doesn't work I uninstall through device manager afterwards.


----------



## grunt_408 (Oct 9, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> Driver cleaner doesn't even work for me.
> Shows the file being deleted, go to the folder where the file was supposed to be deleted from and as always, it's still there.
> I just use the ATi uninstall and if that doesn't work I uninstall through device manager afterwards.



I do what you do and then after run the cleaner to make sure.


----------



## imperialreign (Oct 9, 2007)

if you want to be proof-positive, load up a really good registry cleaner, and make sure all references and remnants of it's existance are gone, too


----------



## grunt_408 (Oct 9, 2007)

Sweet... Slightly off topic but My CPU Rocked up along with my new burner.
I just have to contain myself while I save for my 2900xt.
Although I could slot the 6600 PCIex4 into it for now just to get it going.
mmmmm. It is tempting.
Motherboard....Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P
Cpu...... E6750


----------



## BlackDevilOR (Oct 9, 2007)

well i tried uninstalling everything from ati and installing the 7.9 catalyst, but i'm going to give it another shot and after uninstall i'll run tuneup utilities 2007 and clean the registry. then i'll try and install the driver from the CD the card came with.
i'll come back with a update  still opened to suggestions.


----------



## DaMulta (Oct 9, 2007)

Reinstall the O/S


----------



## imperialreign (Oct 9, 2007)

> Reinstall the O/S




100% fool-proof fix for any software/driver problem


----------



## tkpenalty (Oct 10, 2007)

BlackDevilOR said:


> well i tried uninstalling everything from ati and installing the 7.9 catalyst, but i'm going to give it another shot and after uninstall i'll run tuneup utilities 2007 and clean the registry. then i'll try and install the driver from the CD the card came with.
> i'll come back with a update  still opened to suggestions.



Wait a minute, you're an AGP user... I said, try 7.6 Drivers... not 7.9


----------



## Widjaja (Oct 10, 2007)

Hmm 7.9 crook with MSI X1950pros as well?


----------



## grunt_408 (Oct 10, 2007)

7.9 cat no good with AGP. Hopefully 7.10 is looking to be a working driver once it is released.


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## Widjaja (Oct 10, 2007)

Found a problem with 7.9 even on my Sapphire AGP I think. . .
Sometimes the PC will freeze when windows is loaded up.
Gone back to 7.6 drivers.

As I have said before, just marginal benchmark scores and gaming performance but nothing which makes changing to the drivers neccessary.

7.10 BETAs worked for AGP X1950's and from what I've read here, ATi haven't forgotten the X1xxx series, probably were working hard solely on HD2xxx performance for the last three months to make the card perform as it should.

7.10 "shoot em up drivers".

Maybe this is how ATi should plan out thier drivers.
Depending on the type games you are into.

I think ATi should work on some "racing drivers"


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## grunt_408 (Oct 10, 2007)

Yep that would be good for GTR2 drift mod


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## Widjaja (Oct 10, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Yep that would be good for GTR2 drift mod



Is there a drift mod for GTR2?
Does the drift mod require a steering wheel to use it properly?
Well does the game require a steering wheel to play it properly.

I only played GTR and that game was pretty crap.
I kept on wiping out around corners without a steering wheel and I'd be going top speed down a straight with the fastest car on the track only to find other cars passing me.


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## Oliver (Oct 10, 2007)

*Hi its been a while*

Hi to all,

F....k driver cleaner its a dangerous piece of software, if you're not used to it its better to clean out all ATI files and folders with the add/remove function and  then clean out the program and root folders left.......then maybe run a regcleaner if you are 100% positive its a good piece of soft(juoni vuoni's is good -a bit old but efficient). Then restart and reinstall the Catalyst of your choice (for AGP 7.6 max i guess).

Normally you should be up and running


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## grunt_408 (Oct 10, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> Is there a drift mod for GTR2?
> Does the drift mod require a steering wheel to use it properly?
> Well does the game require a steering wheel to play it properly.
> 
> ...



The gtr2 drift mod is some good fun..... It comes with the cars all modded out with paint jobs lowered to the max big wheels decals ect.. They are bloody hard to control but it is possible to actualy drift. And even better it still works online. google it and you will find. Just from my experiance make sure your game has all the patches installed before you apply the mod tho coz it will stuff up if you do it the other way around. Sorry to take the discusion a little off topic guys.


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## mrhuggles (Oct 10, 2007)

*HIS x1950pro iceq3 turbo rev2 agp*

the 7.10 drivers didnt work for me, same thing from 7.8 and 7.9 couldnt even run dxdiag, had icons on my desktop tho 

btw, you didnt RMA that with newegg did you? i just baught mine from newegg, it was RMA'd but works fine with 7.7 drivers, great card, 120 after shipping and buying of the adapter dealy.


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## imperialreign (Oct 11, 2007)

speaking of ATi drivers . . . has anyone heard any rumors as to when ATI is going to roll out drivers that will support physics processing?  It's been over a year now since they were struting their stuff with the physics xFire setups, and we might start seeing games within another year that would make use of some form of physics API.

Just wondering, really - I figure they won't do open the physics processing potential until the 2ks are more solid performers (as if they aren't already).  I also get the feeling that ATi is waiting for their competitors to make the first move, considering they've already cornered and niched the PPU market.  We haven't heard much from nVidia or Aegis since ATi trumped them both last year.


----------



## Tatty_One (Oct 11, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> speaking of ATi drivers . . . has anyone heard any rumors as to when ATI is going to roll out drivers that will support physics processing?  It's been over a year now since they were struting their stuff with the physics xFire setups, and we might start seeing games within another year that would make use of some form of physics API.
> 
> Just wondering, really - I figure they won't do open the physics processing potential until the 2ks are more solid performers (as if they aren't already).  I also get the feeling that ATi is waiting for their competitors to make the first move, considering they've already cornered and niched the PPU market.  We haven't heard much from nVidia or Aegis since ATi trumped them both last year.



I am not sure of the answer in relation to Ati and Physics, what I can say is that Nvidia and Physics potentially is almost upon us, I beleive ATI were touting a 3rd graphics card setup for physics processing?  I have not heard of a immediate implimentation of that but Nidia will release next month the 780i chipset motherboard, this is to be a 3 card motherboard for that express purpose I beleive, and accoriding to the little snippets I have read that 3rd card does not need to be the same as the other 2 and therefore could be a lesser and potentially much cheaper and even existing card.....although I am sure that there will be limitations on this......TBH I would think that ATi are there or there abouts also.

IMO this 3rd card is not the ideal solution, it would be nice if people with either an Xfire or Sli setup could.....dependant on the game play it in single card mode using the 2nd (rather than 3rd) card for th physics.  Some of my thoughts are based on speculative comments, others on inevitables....but nothing is certain!


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## DaMulta (Oct 11, 2007)

physics processing is automatic at the moment. Crysis is supposed to have a option in there for it.


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## Tatty_One (Oct 11, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> physics processing is automatic at the moment. Crysis is supposed to have a option in there for it.



Yup, but also somewhat limited at the moment.....you know anything about ATi's full implementation?


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## DaMulta (Oct 11, 2007)

Intel bought Havok.....I think it's safe to say DX11 for ATi and Nvidia.


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## cepoi (Oct 11, 2007)

just asking...why my hd2900xt heatsink has two type??..one with 2 heat pipes..and another with 3 heatpipes?? both are Asus EAH2900xt and i bought it at same time..strange..


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## DaMulta (Oct 11, 2007)

That is something that you would have to email Asus about.


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## Tatty_One (Oct 11, 2007)

I can only guess the one was from a previous batch, it would seem that new production cards have 3 pipes in most cases as the pro has the 3 also.


----------



## DaMulta (Oct 11, 2007)

Mine only has 2


----------



## Mediocre (Oct 11, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> I can only guess the one was from a previous batch, it would seem that new production cards have 3 pipes in most cases as the pro has the 3 also.



Same here, my pro's stock hsf only has 2 as well...

Oh most recent clocks with that wicked ass r600 cooler are 72C under full load at 750/825 

Gonna try and break 800/1000 tonight


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## imperialreign (Oct 11, 2007)

> Yup, but also somewhat limited at the moment.....you know anything about ATi's full implementation?



last I had read . . . ATi were stouting that there physics implementation out performed both nVidia's solution, and Aegis' PPU PCI card - by a wide margin.  Suposedly it has a lot to do with their GPU architecture, and how threads are executed.  Probably has a lot to do with why ATI's GPU can accomodate the F@H project.  I'm sure nVidia's _could_ do so also, but . . .

But, ATi haven't said much of anything since they layed their claims and showed their evidence over a year ago, and I'm sure they've been continuing development on the in-between.  I still get the feeling ATi are going to wait for nVidia to make the first move, and then release their trump.

From what I read on ATi's web site about their physics implementation - you don't need two similar cards and then a 3rd for physics.  Two dissimilar cards will work for "physics crossfire" (they don't have an actual name for it yet).  As long as you have a crossfire supported motherboard, the physics will be handled across the PCIe BUS.  You could have 2 X1950's for crossfire, and then use a X1300 for physics.  You could have 2 HD's in crossfire, and run a x1950 or x1650 for phycis.  Their 1+1 setups, you could have an X1950 for rendering, and run a cheap x1050 as a PPU.  Supposedly, any of the X1~ series will work.  

I think that would completely blow the physics processing capabilities out of the water - I mean, if you can't afford another x1950 or HD at the moment, but have an old 1300 or 1650 laying around, it could take a ton of processing stress off your main rendering GPU.  Or, if you've got a mobo with 3 PCIe slots and two hittin HD GPUs in xFire, the addition of a mid-range 1950 or a 512MB 1300XT  . . . 

ATI have at least kept flexibility wide open on this, which I think is great for their customer base.  I've also read here and there that they're working on better flexibility for xFire, they would like at some point to be able to allow xFire between different GPUs (i.e. xFire a 1950 with a 1600, 1850 with a 1350, etc).


----------



## Tatty_One (Oct 12, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> Mine only has 2



Well Sapphire......say no more!  The HIS, Powercolor and Club3D all have 3.


----------



## Tatty_One (Oct 12, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> last I had read . . . ATi were stouting that there physics implementation out performed both nVidia's solution, and Aegis' PPU PCI card - by a wide margin.  Suposedly it has a lot to do with their GPU architecture, and how threads are executed.  Probably has a lot to do with why ATI's GPU can accomodate the F@H project.  I'm sure nVidia's _could_ do so also, but . . .
> 
> But, ATi haven't said much of anything since they layed their claims and showed their evidence over a year ago, and I'm sure they've been continuing development on the in-between.  I still get the feeling ATi are going to wait for nVidia to make the first move, and then release their trump.
> 
> ...



Makes sense but I would expect ATi to say theirs was the best!


----------



## tkpenalty (Oct 12, 2007)

Gigabyte's HD2900XT Also has three heatpipes instead of two. 

Physics processing isn't very useful at the moment, what I would prefer to see is Graphical Crossfire between two dissimilar cards instead, if you use physics, your GPU has to render MUCH more polygons, thanks to the more particles that physics modes usually bring. Pretty much it would be possible to implement Graphical non-similar card Crossfire, all that would be needed is that the weaker GPU can render a small segment of the screen and not 50/50. 

Most of the PCI-E X1k~ GPUs will work with Physics, AGP/PCI variants wont, and I highly doubt the X1050 can, its a RV370, meaning that its a 9550, 9600PRO, X300, X550, etcetra.

Besides physics, its ALWAYS good to have a spare GPU laying around, for diagnostic purposes, etc.

EDIT: Err that guy with the two and three heatpipe HD2900XTs, put the one with the two heatpipes above.


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## JC316 (Oct 12, 2007)

My HIS 2900 pro has 3 pipes.


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## imperialreign (Oct 12, 2007)

> Besides physics, its ALWAYS good to have a spare GPU laying around, for diagnostic purposes, etc.



most definitely, and just in case the main one dies.  Why I've still got an X700 and a X1300 laying around, I'd even recommend to anyone to grab a cheap, decent PCIe from ebay just as a backup.



> Physics processing isn't very useful at the moment, what I would prefer to see is Graphical Crossfire between two dissimilar cards instead, if you use physics, your GPU has to render MUCH more polygons, thanks to the more particles that physics modes usually bring. Pretty much it would be possible to implement Graphical non-similar card Crossfire, all that would be needed is that the weaker GPU can render a small segment of the screen and not 50/50.



I defi agree it's not useful, at the moment, but it will come sooner or later.  From how I interpreted ATI's explanation on their dissimilar setups, it seems that the weaker card would perform the vast majority of the mathematics and physics calculations, which would leave the more powerful card with only having to render and skin polygons.

But, I think that if ATI does have the capability to allow dissimilar systems to work together for physics, or a 3 card setup, then they're not that far off from a working different card crossfire setup.


----------



## cepoi (Oct 12, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> EDIT: Err that guy with the two and three heatpipe HD2900XTs, put the one with the two heatpipes above.



why?


----------



## Wile E (Oct 12, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Well Sapphire......say no more!  The HIS, Powercolor and Club3D all have 3.


My powercolor only has 2.


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## Tatty_One (Oct 12, 2007)

Wile E said:


> My powercolor only has 2.



Lol we are talking pro's not XT's


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## grunt_408 (Oct 12, 2007)

Hi sorry to but in..... I ordered the rest of my components for new pc today.... I sort of ran out money and couldnt get what I wanted ( story of my life ). 
I ended up with a Saphire X1950 pro and I have heard of these things getting a little hot.
Can anyone suggest a cooler to match it. Cheers.


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## imperialreign (Oct 12, 2007)

> Hi sorry to but in..... I ordered the rest of my components for new pc today.... I sort of ran out money and couldnt get what I wanted ( story of my life ).
> I ended up with a Saphire X1950 pro and I have heard of these things getting a little hot.
> Can anyone suggest a cooler to match it. Cheers.



There's always the good old standard Arctic Cooler X2.  There's the Zalman VF1000, but they're quite a bit pricey.  Cooler Master has their CoolViva Pro coolers, which look like they'd offer killer cooling, but them bastards are huge (40mm height compared to the X2's 30mm).


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## grunt_408 (Oct 12, 2007)

The Zalman VF1000 looks the goods. I may get one of them. Fitting it will be a first tho never swapped out a heatsink on a GPU before. It will be worth it. I should get better performance out of this new rig  P.S  imperialreign nice O/C on yer Proc 524. I never even tried with mine. It will be gone today anyway.


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## tkpenalty (Oct 13, 2007)

I'd use an AcceleroX2 of a VF900CU instead... VF1000 is somewhat overkill on a X1950PRO, since X1950PROs dont overclock well, even with water cooling, they remain virtually the same.


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## Widjaja (Oct 13, 2007)

People with AGP X1950pros/GTs still incompatible with the latest 7.10 Cataylst drivers.
Also X1650 AGP by the looks of things.
The 7.10 drivers are working fine for me so far.
3dmarks in 03 & 05 have gone up but 06 has gone down.
All scores he increased and decreased marginally.
Real world gaming performamce appears the same.


----------



## imperialreign (Oct 13, 2007)

> P.S imperialreign nice O/C on yer Proc 524. I never even tried with mine. It will be gone today anyway.



thanks, man!  Still trying to pass 4GHz with it, though.  I've gotten it stable at 4.03, but running something that requires serious precise calculations (F@H console) crashes the system.

What are you replacing your Prescott with?


----------



## cepoi (Oct 13, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Lol we are talking pro's not XT's



i think mine are XT....so we are talking about xt...not pro...but forget it...both xt n pro just same at all...


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## grunt_408 (Oct 13, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> What are you replacing your Prescott with?


I have a E6750 that should be a noticable increase in performance especially with the p35 chipset.


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## Tatty_One (Oct 13, 2007)

cepoi said:


> i think mine are XT....so we are talking about xt...not pro...but forget it...both xt n pro just same at all...



Pro's as in they all seem to have 3 heatpipes, only the most recent batches of XT have 3 as you found out!


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## tkpenalty (Oct 14, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> I have a E6750 that should be a noticable increase in performance especially with the p35 chipset.



Ahaha... I felt like that when i got the X1950PRO I was like "WOWWWWOWOWOWOOWOWWW" then i made this clubhouse for fanboism. Now its not, now its something useful  >=D.


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## grunt_408 (Oct 14, 2007)

It is a brilliant place to talk to like minded people and get advice from people who know what you are on about.


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## tkpenalty (Oct 14, 2007)

Anyway, I'll start grabbing pieces of info from all over the thread, (god this is going to take...AGES), then put it together.


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## imperialreign (Oct 14, 2007)

> I have a E6750 that should be a noticable increase in performance especially with the p35 chipset.



defi post some benches with the 1950, man - I want to see just how much I'm missing out on 

still trying to get my system running full-boogey 100%, but fighting the P4 is a headache - Hopefully, though, I'll have a QX6850 sometime early next year, and I expect that Kentsfield to just start nerf-thwappin my current benchmark scores and overall performance.

. . . and then, if all goes well with my tax returns . . . 2 HD 2900 XT's for xFire   MWA! HA! HA! HAAAA!!

and then, whenever ATi release the physics drivers - I'll look into and consider a mobo that has 3 x16 slots, and use my current 1950 PRO as a PPU.


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## tkpenalty (Oct 14, 2007)

At those clockspeeds, I doubt the bottleneck would be there man...


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## grunt_408 (Oct 14, 2007)

I have it half built now took some pics will post them soon.


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## imperialreign (Oct 14, 2007)

> At those clockspeeds, I doubt the bottleneck would be there man...



with those components . . . it'll be more like a floodgate than a bottleneck


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## Widjaja (Oct 15, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> I have it half built now took some pics will post them soon.



Should be a good laugh to hear the change in performance.

Anyway hope the performance only goes up.
My bros new rig does something similar to mine in games.
Oblivion stutters like a champ with his GTX but not my rig
While Stalker is very smooth on his but it not too good on mine.
Both our rigs have acceptable avg frame rates just stuttery with certain games.

But I think that goes for everyone with one game or another.

Fingers crosses the rig goes without unexpected problems after double checking and doing everything text book.


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## grunt_408 (Oct 15, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> Fingers crosses the rig goes without unexpected problems after double checking and doing everything text book.



Please dont jinx me. Naaah it should be o.k I took all of the ESD precautions and It isnt the first one I have put together done a few now.


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## mitsirfishi (Oct 15, 2007)

ive never belived in esd never effected me so ill consider getting 2x 2900pro's  gota see how fundage goes


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## imperialreign (Oct 15, 2007)

> ive never belived in esd never effected me so ill consider getting 2x 2900pro's  gota see how fundage goes



I've never paid it much mind, either - I guess it comes from working with components years and years ago (read: early 90's) when things weren't as sensitive as they are now . . . although, if I take something out and put it down somewhere, I'll usually lay it on a static-bag.  But, that's the extent of my precatuions.


----------



## Darknova (Oct 16, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> I've never paid it much mind, either - I guess it comes from working with components years and years ago (read: early 90's) when things weren't as sensitive as they are now . . . although, if I take something out and put it down somewhere, I'll usually lay it on a static-bag.  But, that's the extent of my precatuions.



I'll lay them on bags, but that's only because that's what comes in the box.

I've had ESD before...while I was messing inside my case...while the PC was on. It turned off and then rebooted...and I could actually OC further than before lol.


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## DaMulta (Oct 16, 2007)

I bought a 5000+ black last night with next day shipping

Lets see if I can get a better AMD/ATi score going on WOOT


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## mitsirfishi (Oct 16, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> I bought a 5000+ black last night with next day shipping
> 
> Lets see if I can get a better AMD/ATi score going on WOOT




from what i hear they arnt that bad overclockers 3.5ghz on stock cooling isnt bad but im sure youve got a few tricks up your trousers  my amd 6000 will do 3.6ghz then dies out if anymore hope it serves well for you


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## Athlon2K15 (Oct 18, 2007)

um...can i join up?


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## grunt_408 (Oct 18, 2007)

Sweet she is going now... After slight problem with the heatsink not quite seated properly over the socket and it would turn on and shut down straight away. I was thinking the worst but after a lot of swearing and re installing the heatsink away it went.
I will post some benchmark score after work today.


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## Widjaja (Oct 19, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Sweet she is going now... After slight problem with the heatsink not quite seated properly over the socket and it would turn on and shut down straight away. I was thinking the worst but after a lot of swearing and re installing the heatsink away it went.
> I will post some benchmark score after work today.



Ha ha!
Jinxed you
Good to hear you have it going.

Can't wait to hear your real world gaming comparison to your old rig.


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## grunt_408 (Oct 19, 2007)

You will never guess what drivers I am using .
Heaps better I have some tweaking to do I thinks.





Hey Widjaja can I copy yer sig pic?


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## Widjaja (Oct 19, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> You will never guess what drivers I am using .
> Heaps better I have some tweaking to do I thinks.
> Hey Widjaja can I copy yer sig pic?



Using 7.10?

Anyway yeah sure copy my sig and make it yours.
It was a quick edit I made in photoshop.
I see you have Transformers.
I really should give it a go since I do have a copy of it.
Been trying to figure out how to play total war II still though.
Real slow at figuring that one out.
I recommend downloading the demo of Bioshock or buy the game.
It plays really well on my rig and the water in the game looks amazing amongst other things.
No AA with the new UT engine but does it matter when it looks that good?


----------



## grunt_408 (Oct 19, 2007)

My 6 year old loves the transformers


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## Widjaja (Oct 19, 2007)

My 22yr old mate loves the transformers.
I couldn't figure it out on his PC but I bought a copy anyway.
Just checked my score with the 7.10's
I scored 15966 with 03'

My bro has OC'ed his E6600 to 2.9Ghz on stock cooling 24/7 with acceptable temperatures.


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## JC316 (Oct 19, 2007)

Hmm, I never noticed this club. You can add me into to it. HD2900 pro.


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## tkpenalty (Oct 20, 2007)

Phew... Sorry guys I was at camp for three days...


----------



## grunt_408 (Oct 20, 2007)

Yep I get to use 7.10 now lol


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## imperialreign (Oct 20, 2007)

nice 3m06 score, Cb - what were you scoring before the C2D?


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## grunt_408 (Oct 21, 2007)

Cant remember wasnt that good I know that.
Shouldve ran a test before I got rid of the old rig


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## tkpenalty (Oct 21, 2007)

Holy cow, how did we get 2000 views in a day? .

Geez...my X1950PRO isnt fairing well with the summerlike spring heat... 41*C idle and 55*C load. Thats much hotter than usual. Anyway... wheres everybody gone?


----------



## Widjaja (Oct 21, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Holy cow, how did we get 2000 views in a day? .
> 
> Geez...my X1950PRO isnt fairing well with the summerlike spring heat... 41*C idle and 55*C load. Thats much hotter than usual. Anyway... wheres everybody gone?



My pro is most of the time at 40deg idle and 76deg load.
I think most questions have been covered about the X1950pro so this thread will be quiet.
Maybe poeple are viewing this thread to see if there are any new interesting things which have come up?

Anyway the date for my rig upgrade is drawing closer.
Back to nVidia or stay with ATi. . .eVGA 8800GTS 640mb or Sapphire HD2900XT. 

Tough choice for me since I think they're about the same price over here.


----------



## tkpenalty (Oct 21, 2007)

mmm... HD2900XT? To be honest, the HD2900XT still has much room for improvement in terms of drivers


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## imperialreign (Oct 21, 2007)

> I think most questions have been covered about the X1950pro so this thread will be quiet.
> Maybe poeple are viewing this thread to see if there are any new interesting things which have come up?



I'm still researching and testing the various PCIE settings I have in BIOS, which I understand are similar for ASUS mobo's . .. 

but, for some reason, I loaded FEAR back onto the rig, and have been playing that recently instead of doing anything worthwhile


----------



## Widjaja (Oct 21, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> mmm... HD2900XT? To be honest, the HD2900XT still has much room for improvement in terms of drivers



Yes I believe it is the case when it comes to the HD2900XT as seen in the release notes of late.
I just wonder how much improvement there's going to be.
I think I'll wait for a for a couple more drivers to come out to see how much more improvement is made on the card since it do want to stick with ATi.


----------



## FreedomLemming (Oct 22, 2007)

I have a x1950 GT with some new problems and was hoping something could help me. A few of the more recent games (Bioshock, Quake Wars, Orange Box, ect.) crash like mad on graphics settings that should cakewalk for my system. After some testing I have found that the card is overheating at ridiculous rates. 

What can I use to help cool it down? I want to use the Accelero X2 but I was not sure if it would be applicable to the GT. I know that and the Pro have nearly the same layout but I wanted to be sure before I threw down for it and a Voltage Regulator.


----------



## Wile E (Oct 22, 2007)

FreedomLemming said:


> I have a x1950 GT with some new problems and was hoping something could help me. A few of the more recent games (Bioshock, Quake Wars, Orange Box, ect.) crash like mad on graphics settings that should cakewalk for my system. After some testing I have found that the card is overheating at ridiculous rates.
> 
> What can I use to help cool it down? I want to use the Accelero X2 but I was not sure if it would be applicable to the GT. I know that and the Pro have nearly the same layout but I wanted to be sure before I threw down for it and a Voltage Regulator.


How good is your case airflow? How many fans, what size are they, what case do you have, etc., etc.?

Buying an aftermarket gfx cooler is useless, if case flow isn't up to snuff.


----------



## Widjaja (Oct 22, 2007)

@Freedom Lemming
Fillout the system specs in your user CP.
Makes solving your problem alot easier.

What is the make of your X1950GT?
Have you overclocked your card?
What voltage is the card at?
Checked to see if your GPU H/S is clogged up with dust?

My card handles Bioshock very well on high settings and has no artifacting.
After a while the cooler will start to get going and gets up to about 78deg max in Bioshock.


----------



## tkpenalty (Oct 22, 2007)

Generally X1950GTs have pretty poor cooling. However, FreedomLearning, I would post your system specs on the drop down list (search in your control panel). I would install a VF700ALCU/CU onto your GPU instead of an Accelero, I am under the assumption that your case has poor airflow. Note I said VF700 not VF900.


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## FreedomLemming (Oct 22, 2007)

I added as many specs as I could name off the top of my head right now (on a campus computer). Let me know if I must post more, please.

Well, my case isn't the smallest by far but it's down there. It's really just a cheap exoskeleton, to be honest. I really have never had a cooling problem with it, but I think the video card definitely is cramped for space. There are plenty of holes on the sides yet I have a feeling I should probably get a new one. 

The video card gets very, very hot with the new games, which is why I believe the stock fan is either crap/dying. The VPU recovery usually kicks in a few times (example: Game freezes, monitor goes black, then comes back to game, ect.) and then the video card flops and I have to reboot.

So do you think if I get a good case with air flow an extra fans inside it that I will not need to replace the fan on the card?


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## grunt_408 (Oct 22, 2007)

Have you tried gaming with the side panel off?
Maybe do that and also get a pedastall fan blowing over it and see what happens when you do that..... Hope this helps. Also those cards need to have a good PSU a cheap one wont do the job.


----------



## FreedomLemming (Oct 22, 2007)

I use an Antec 500W for PS. One of the tests I did was keep the side open and hold my room at what felt like 50 C with the huge box fan pointing directly into the case. I'm going to go ahead and upgrade the case and hope I can get away without messing with the video card.

*crosses fingers*


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## GrapeApe (Oct 22, 2007)

So what about the Mobility side of the equation? Can we join, maybe at 3/4 the dues? 

Biggest personal issue is Vista drivers for Mobility parts. AMD is still  $crewing over consumers in order to please OEM partners by saying "we can't give you the drivers, your Laptop maker has to..." Which of course they pretty much never do. If I was left to Gateway's driver updates I'd still be stuck on Cat 5.4 on my old MRX700 equipped laptop. Thankfully I have an inside track to XP beta drivers from my testing days back when, but with the shake-up at AMD I have no love in Vista from the new gang.

With the large number of laptop users growing and there still being somewhat capable mid-range gaming laptops, this is going to be a bigger issue in the future IMO. 

Sofar my solution for the N6460 is to revert to XP. Once Crysis is out and I've mucked around with it's DX10 path (hoping it actually works on old drivers), then bye-bye Vista hello again XP Pro, since it's not like the HD2600 will be playable in DX10, so no need for now until future fixes and I return to Vista-U-64. Fujitsu is one of the companies supporting the roll-back to XP for all Vista-UE owners, which is nice, but still a hassle versus just them giving me new Vista drivers. BTW, it's the same for HP and Toshiba owners. 

I don't expect any help on this issue but I wanted to share our mobile agony with the club members; and just remind you, as bad as things may be for you and may look for you, just be happy you're not a mobile user stuck with 7.6 Cats or using the DH Mod tool (which is 50/50 right now for HD2Ks in Vista) so you can play Quake wars or bioshock without massive tearing/stuttering.

I have all the nice fixings of the new core/marchitecture including the supposed better HD playback (couldn't tell you won't stop stuttering [known issue fixed y CAT 7.8 & 7.9]), but due to the drivers, it's really not much better than my old overclocked Mobility X700. 

I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess...... but I can't go back to desktops.  :shadedshu


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## Widjaja (Oct 23, 2007)

@Freedon Lemming.
When you get back to your PC, check to see if it's clogged with dust.
My rig has a 80mm intake on the side and the GPU hasn't crashed for me.
It's a stock Sapphire rev1 which have poor cooling too.


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## tkpenalty (Oct 23, 2007)

Save yourself some money and grab a CM 690. That case is VALUE PACKED.


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## tkpenalty (Oct 25, 2007)

*bump*


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## peach1971 (Oct 25, 2007)

Met.


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## tkpenalty (Oct 25, 2007)

I wonder why the club is so inactive these days...


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## Widjaja (Oct 25, 2007)

Everyone has gone to nVidia


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## imperialreign (Oct 25, 2007)

not much else to talk about, I guess . . . all us 1950 owners are saving for 2900s


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## Tatty_One (Oct 25, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> not much else to talk about, I guess . . . all us 1950 owners are saving for 2900s



I hope not cause you will be wasting your money, get a 8800GT on Monday, they will be cheaper and quicker


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## imperialreign (Oct 25, 2007)

meh . . . I still can't afford to buy another GPU until sometime next year - I plan on replacing this P4 with a Kentsfield, first - and hell, by the time I get around to a new GPU, maybe the 3ks will be out, or the 2900XTXs will be a little cheaper.


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## mitsirfishi (Oct 25, 2007)

yes kill that p4 off she is holding you back then maybe think of another gpu if you have enough in your pocket


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## manycheese (Oct 26, 2007)

heya.

im having problems with my HIS Radeon X1950 Pro ICEq3 512mb AGP.

Getting random crashes where video output stops, audio keeps going.

I have an Antec NEO HE430GB 430W Modular PSU.
with a AMD Athalon X2 2.2ghz, 2x dimms 1 GB, 3x optical drives, 1x 120gb HD

i was wondering if you guys thought that that psu would be the problem?

becuase some people have sed that its not the psu its the card...

ps. Its not overheating


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## mitsirfishi (Oct 26, 2007)

drivers ?


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## Widjaja (Oct 26, 2007)

manycheese said:


> heya.
> 
> im having problems with my HIS Radeon X1950 Pro ICEq3 512mb AGP.
> 
> Getting random crashes where video output stops, audio keeps going.



I don't think it's the PSU.

Haven't we heard about these cards acting wierd before?
When did the card start doing this?
What drivers are you using?
Do you know what revision of the card you have?

I latest drivers seem to be fine with these cards but not 7.8 & 7.9.
If the latest drivers don't work with you card use 7.6 drivers as they work with all X1950 AGP cards without issues.

If that doesn't work try it in someone elses rig if you can.


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## tkpenalty (Oct 26, 2007)

manycheese said:


> heya.
> 
> im having problems with my HIS Radeon X1950 Pro ICEq3 512mb AGP.
> 
> ...



Its the card... Check the VRM heatsink, and feel if its warm or not (the copper one under the HIS fan..) I'm suspecting that they dont use any thermal pads there. I recommend you send the card back and purchase an X1950PRO from another mfgr like Powercolor or Sapphire. These HIS cards cause so much problems for some reason, most of the support recently has only been about these cards. I wonder why, I'd love to have one of these to see how they are made.


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## manycheese (Oct 27, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Its the card... Check the VRM heatsink, and feel if its warm or not (the copper one under the HIS fan..) I'm suspecting that they dont use any thermal pads there. I recommend you send the card back and purchase an X1950PRO from another mfgr like Powercolor or Sapphire. These HIS cards cause so much problems for some reason, most of the support recently has only been about these cards. I wonder why, I'd love to have one of these to see how they are made.



i looked and they do.. 

just found something funny on my box.

well you guys know that the rev 2. and rev 1 had different clock speeds. (HIS x1950 Pro AGp)

under a sticker saying the rev. 2 clock speeds it says the rev. 1 clock speeds...


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## grunt_408 (Oct 28, 2007)

I got rid of my AGP X1950 Pro  coz I got sick of trying to get it to work! I have a Sapphire PCIe now it is going good. Stock cooling on the Sapphire, I just checked the temp in CCC after a workout and she is running at 44 under load. Is this good? I put a few fans into this rig hopefully she will keep nice and cool.


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## p_o_s_pc (Oct 28, 2007)

yes it is good.My 7900GS doesn't even run that cool but it does have a volt-mod


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## tkpenalty (Oct 28, 2007)

Wow 44*C Under load???!?!?! WTF? Thats better than my accelero. Try using scan for artifacts and check the temp there instead.


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## Widjaja (Oct 28, 2007)

I'm pretty sure someone I talked to was getting those temps with a later rev Sapphire too.
But if those are the correct temp then yes they are very good and a huge improvement from the Rev 1.


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## tkpenalty (Oct 28, 2007)

Idle would be 35~45*C Load would be 50~60*C, idle cant be 44*C when a VF900CU cant even do that.


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## imperialreign (Oct 28, 2007)

this might be one of those "I just woke up and am still dazed and confused" questions, but . . .

I just realized that per the packaging, my 1950 PRO supports shader model 3.0

but, even with DX9c installed, every other bit of software only says 2.0 - 3m06, ATT, Everest . . .

sup with that?


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 28, 2007)

ok Do you have the last 2 Latest Splinter Cell Games, if you do then they are SM3.0 Only, if they play on what you have then you have SM3.0


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## Widjaja (Oct 28, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> this might be one of those "I just woke up and am still dazed and confused" questions, but . . .
> 
> I just realized that per the packaging, my 1950 PRO supports shader model 3.0
> 
> ...



Lol that would be a shock to the system.
I just checked my card specs with 06 and everest and they are both saying v3.0 pixel shader.

Anyway if your card passes the HDR/SM 3.0 test it definitley has shader 3.0.

My card has odd readings when it comes to the video and texture memory size in 3Dmark06.
Right now it says I have 518mb video and texture and 248mb AGP aperture size.
I'm pretty sure it said 1GB video and texture memory with cat 7.9

My mates 7600GT read faster GPU clock in 06' when he updated his to later drivers.


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## imperialreign (Oct 28, 2007)

well, it defi passes the HDR tests . . .

IDK - kinda a dumb question now, y'know!  Damn, my brain musta been 100% off when I got on the net this morning!


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## grunt_408 (Oct 29, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Idle would be 35~45*C Load would be 50~60*C, idle cant be 44*C when a VF900CU cant even do that.



Well I was playing TDU online for over an hour and when I quit the game I checke the temps straight away. How do I check it while I am gaming?
My Idle temp is 38-39 ATM


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## Wile E (Oct 29, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Well I was playing TDU online for over an hour and when I quit the game I checke the temps straight away. How do I check it while I am gaming?


You don't. Have AMD Gpu Clock Tool, Riva Tuner, or ATI Tool log it for you.


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## tkpenalty (Oct 29, 2007)

As I stated previously, use ATI Tool. Run "Scan for artifacts" and sit there and watch the furry cube for like 5 minutes, then you'll get your load temps PRESTO!


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## grunt_408 (Oct 29, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> As I stated previously, use ATI Tool. Run "Scan for artifacts" and sit there and watch the furry cube for like 5 minutes, then you'll get your load temps PRESTO!



Sorry TK.. Just ran the tool and 65 is the load temp.
I think I might get an aftermarket GPU Cooler for this.
I have got 1 120mm at the rear and one at the front, plus 2 80mm sitting under the DVDburner blowing over the ram.
2 80mm fans on the side panel blowing onto the X1950.
P.S sorry for not doing my homework on the load temp I feel like a nob now.


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## tkpenalty (Oct 29, 2007)

65*C is perfectly fine


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## Widjaja (Oct 29, 2007)

When using ATi Tray Tools and enabling the GPU temp monitor, it will give you the minimal temp and the maximum temp after playing a game.
Games do generally raise the temp more than say scanning for artifacts in ATi Tool.
Games I know of which heat up the card are 1:Stalker 2:Need for speed Carbon 3:Bioshock 4:Oblivion.
1 being the quickest to heat up the card.

Average max load for my card is 76-81deg.


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## tkpenalty (Oct 29, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> When using ATi Tray Tools and enabling the GPU temp monitor, it will give you the minimal temp and the maximum temp after playing a game.
> Games do generally raise the temp more than say scanning for artifacts in ATi Tool.
> Games I know of which heat up the card are 1:Stalker 2:Need for speed Carbon 3:Bioshock 4:Oblivion.
> 1 being the quickest to heat up the card.
> ...



Mmm... i'd try applying new thermal paste  then lapping it. I want to see the potential of the new cooler. Well actually the reason for it running so warm is the summer heat though.... my system is frying hot atm T_T.


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## grunt_408 (Oct 29, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> When using ATi Tray Tools and enabling the GPU temp monitor, it will give you the minimal temp and the maximum temp after playing a game.
> Games do generally raise the temp more than say scanning for artifacts in ATi Tool.
> Games I know of which heat up the card are 1:Stalker 2:Need for speed Carbon 3:Bioshock 4:Oblivion.
> 1 being the quickest to heat up the card.
> ...



Thanks Widjaja.
I didnt think my PC would get hot with all of those fans and at the standard speeds.
Although it does sound like a turbine. (water cooling would be a lot quiter)


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## Widjaja (Oct 30, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Mmm... i'd try applying new thermal paste  then lapping it. I want to see the potential of the new cooler. Well actually the reason for it running so warm is the summer heat though.... my system is frying hot atm T_T.



Yeah I would but I'm not game enough to take of the GPU cooler for the card.
Haven't lapped anything yet either.
I think the coolers are just not the best on the Sapphires, actually the worst.
I'm guessing they didn't look at the cooling from an overclocking point of view.

As for the  heat, yes I noticed the temps went up a little bit about a couple of months ago for everything in my system due the season.

Pretty cool temperatures in winter being 18deg in the room brrrrr!


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## tkpenalty (Oct 30, 2007)

lol... im used to 18 deg... some reason i cant take any heat T_T.

Its easy taking the GPU cooler off the card btw... REALLY easy. Unfasten screws, then it just comes off like that. Then use 96% isoproply alcohol (from diggers), and clean off the thermal paste on the GPU core. Then put new thermal paste on and reposition the thermal pads and put the cooler back on, screwing everything back on again. Its not that hard.


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## imperialreign (Oct 30, 2007)

my 1950 looked like it used some decent TIM for the GPU, but it's got those sticky pads for the VRAM.  I wish there was something better I could put on the memory, but I'm quite a bit leary of using any "paste-like" TIM on them.  Aside from that, though, the bottom side of the copper fansink seemed pretty flat, surprisingly, and the grain of the finish was all in one even direction.

At least ATI didn't skimp on the stock fansinks and heat spreader for their mid-range cards!


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## tkpenalty (Nov 2, 2007)

keep the same thermal pads, they do fine. However, the thermalpaste, is crap, regardless of what type, its generic OEM stuff.


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## tkpenalty (Nov 3, 2007)

Wonder why the clubhouse is so inactive...? I might as well start expanding the clubhouse. Anyway, Its somewhat interesting reading all the HD3800 rumors, they all seem so incongruent. One source says "its faster" the other says its "slower". So anyway... whos waiting for the RV670 to come out before they buy anything? I surely am.


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## hat (Nov 3, 2007)

Threads die... I believe it's happening to the teen club as well. Last few pages are filled with F@H updates, lol


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## Wile E (Nov 3, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Wonder why the clubhouse is so inactive...? I might as well start expanding the clubhouse. Anyway, Its somewhat interesting reading all the HD3800 rumors, they all seem so incongruent. One source says "its faster" the other says its "slower". So anyway... whos waiting for the RV670 to come out before they buy anything? I surely am.


I'm gonna see what it's all about. If it ends up faster than my 2900, I'll sell this and buy one. If not, I may still sell this for an 8800GT.


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## mitsirfishi (Nov 3, 2007)

im just waiting for the 2950pro im guna get the gladiator  just they did say sample reviews where going to be around september but they must be whey late again as usual but ive hardly seen any review just the clock speeds of what we expect from these cards i almost brought a 8800gt yesterday but held back as ill wait for the 2950 to come out and hopefully do justice and fill the legacy of the X1950Pro  might not be till december when we get the cards


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## tkpenalty (Nov 3, 2007)

Man Karl.. you have a huge patience O_O.


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## tkpenalty (Nov 3, 2007)

hat said:


> Threads die... I believe it's happening to the teen club as well. Last few pages are filled with F@H updates, lol



YESS 

*Sadistic, evil, err.... hysterical laughter*


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## Mediocre (Nov 3, 2007)

well, we could use the power of the club house to....






Find 'ocre a way to bump the core voltage on his 2900 ddr4... 







Or take bets on high the wife's opteron 170 will go when it gets here


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## mitsirfishi (Nov 3, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Man Karl.. you have a huge patience O_O.



 used my real name everyone will know who i am  im a person of mystery  yes tk i was very very tempted to get the 8800gt as it was there right infront of my eyes  i though ah stuff it if ati/amd cant recreate the x1950pro in a uber faster edition i shall  Nvidia bearing in mind every Nvidia card i have actually owned with the execption of my fx5950ultra which is in a old socket A setup have all blown up 

Nvidia R.I.P list
mx440
fx5200
6800Le x2
6800Ultra
7300gt
8400gs - thats in sisters pc for sims lol


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## p_o_s_pc (Nov 3, 2007)

hat said:


> Threads die... I believe it's happening to the teen club as well. Last few pages are filled with F@H updates, lol


ya i know but that is fine it isn't dead just starting to flat line.every now and then it will get a pause


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## imperialreign (Nov 3, 2007)

Liked I had figured a while back, everyone's waiting on the new hardware - seems we've beaten the 1950's to death 

I still won't be in the market for any newer cars until after I snag a new CPU, but, I've been half tempted to put my 1950 up for sale and put that money towards a 2900.

IDK - I've been happy with the 1950 except for a few things.  Namely, the reason I bought a shelf ATI model was the $80 rebate that was offered ($10 at the register, $70 mail-in - the card was $249 on the shelf), but I still haven't gotten the $70 check back from VisionTek yet, and it's been since July 

poor OC doesn't bother me, but no hardware temp monitoring or fan speed control I thought was a bit cheap on ATI's part

this is probably the last shelf model ATI I'll ever buy, though - rebate or not


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## tkpenalty (Nov 3, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> used my real name everyone will know who i am  im a person of mystery  yes tk i was very very tempted to get the 8800gt as it was there right infront of my eyes  i though ah stuff it if ati/amd cant recreate the x1950pro in a uber faster edition i shall  Nvidia bearing in mind every Nvidia card i have actually owned with the execption of my fx5950ultra which is in a old socket A setup have all blown up
> 
> Nvidia R.I.P list
> mx440
> ...



 Holy Cow.... You must have had really bad luck to have that many dead GPUs.

My R.I.P. List:
mx440
9550 (...died after being in storage)
TNT2
ATI Rage PRO

lawl.

Hmmm anyway, I might as well start buying another GPU, probably one more X1950PRO for crossfire. Imperialreign, are you selling it on TPU? I think I might want it due to the fact that the ATI Models have a full copper fansink, as opposed to other manufacturers .


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## imperialreign (Nov 3, 2007)

what'd y'all do, torch 'em?  I've never had a VGA adapter die on me, I've always had to retire them . . . anyway, I've got these in a box somewhere

Trident 9000 ISA
Matrox 576-05 PCI
Trident 9680 PCI
Creative CT6710 AGP
ATI Rage3D Pro 128 AGP
3DFX VooDoo3 3000 PCI

<gap: my time without a PC>

ATI X700 PRO PCIe
ATI X1950 PRO PCIe

also got a VisionTek X1300 512MB PCIe for free, but have never used it daily


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Nov 3, 2007)

my list 
R.I.P 
MX4000(PCI) cause of death overvolt and over 80% GPU OC on stock HS no fan
X1950pro(PCI-E) cause of death unknown
Mx440(AGP)OCed on stock HSF in a case that had bad air flow.


----------



## hat (Nov 3, 2007)

Fold on it!!

My death list... one INTEL D865PERL AGP port. 
Two really old german case fans. They were interconnected somehow and got power from the same power line, and I broke one of the wires that connected them.
One headset. Died due to old age.


----------



## Wile E (Nov 4, 2007)

Somehow, a gfx card is the ONLY computer part I never managed to kill.


----------



## imperialreign (Nov 4, 2007)

If I didn't have such high respect for my VooDoo3, I'd send it to ya to finish it off.  It was my first GPU that I ever OCed, and it survived my "learning" experience


----------



## Widjaja (Nov 4, 2007)

Only thing which has died in my system is an 80mm L.E.D fan.
But I made it work again by taking parts from another fan my mate had killed.


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## mitsirfishi (Nov 4, 2007)

that isnt my only list  do you want me to list the Ati cards which have also snuffed it in the past 2 ?


----------



## Kursah (Nov 4, 2007)

tk, can you update me to using an x1950xtx? I still have my Pro, contemplating selling it...might just hold onto it though.

Of course, been folding with it, here and there. It suprised me for how good it is compared to the PRO at higher resolutions, but at the same time impressed me how well the PRO was put together.

The only card that's died on me is my old 9600pro, cause of death unknown.

I've had a few vga cards, I used to use integrated video in my older rigs...but I've had:

S3 Trio 64V+ 4mb PCI,
3dfx VooDoo Banshee 16mb PCI,
3dfx VooDoo 2 16mb PCI (iirc),
GeForce 2 MX440 64mb AGP 2/4x,
Gigabyte 9600Pro 128mb AGP 4/8x,
ATI x850Pro 256mb (modded to 16pipe x850xt pe) AGP 4/8x,
Powercolor x1950pro Extreme 256mb PCI-e x16,
ATI x1950xtx 512mb PCI-e x16

At least that's all I can remember for now, I had a couple before the S3, but can't recall them atm.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Nov 5, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Somehow, a gfx card is the ONLY computer part I never managed to kill.



That has been the only part other than a fan i have killed.


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 7, 2007)

Man... this looks nice, the HD2950PRO Gigabyte... Some reason gigabyte calls it the HD2950PRO. 

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4060&Itemid=1

I like how gigabyte uses three phase, it basically means that there is no need for heatsinks on the mofsets.


----------



## Widjaja (Nov 7, 2007)

Looks pretty bare to me.
Anyway, as long as the fan is good enough to be able to OC the card some.
The last card I had was from Gigabyte and it did me well.

The fan looks like it could also cool down the other card on the back a little if in CF mode too.


----------



## DaMulta (Nov 7, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Man... this looks nice, the HD2950PRO Gigabyte... Some reason gigabyte calls it the HD2950PRO.
> 
> http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4060&Itemid=1
> 
> I like how gigabyte uses three phase, it basically means that there is no need for heatsinks on the mofsets.


8800GT





Now tell me which one looks cheaper to make


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## Widjaja (Nov 7, 2007)

They look nearly identical to me.
I'm guessing the HD2950pro since there are less caps?
Otherwise I'd say they are pretty close in price to make.


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## tkpenalty (Nov 8, 2007)

The 8800GT's smaller... as a tribute possibly to the 7900GS? Haha... anyway god damn it why is the clubhouse so empty these days? (Fires a intercontinental ballistic missile at the Teen, and AMDTI club). 

We've had nothing bud just plain made up stuff about the HD2950PRO lately, except for its physical appearance. We've had the following: Specifications + pics and then benchmarks - pics. So confusing!


----------



## erocker (Nov 8, 2007)

Here's a pic of them same size:


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## tkpenalty (Nov 8, 2007)

yep yep... 

7900GS = same length as 8800GT Same memory chip layout
X1950PRO = Same length as HD3870/50 Same memory chip layout

And notice that the the previous gen also used VF700ALCUs...?


----------



## imperialreign (Nov 9, 2007)

yeah, those cards do look very similar . . . I find it interesting, too, how bare bones the HD is in that pic . . .



I also noticed the outline on the HD somewhat around the perimeter of the card - based on ATI's PCB's, that's a major difference in cooler area.  I wonder how well those Giga's will OC.


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 9, 2007)

To be honest, I dont think adding three phase as well as a better selection of capacitors will really affect how the card does normally, and how it overclocks normally. But of course, once you grab the soldering iron, these gigabyte cards will be a dream to voltmod, thanks to the more durable PCB, etcetra. 

Thinking about getting a HD3870... A gigabyte one especially! No need for aftermarket solutions + No VRMs to be annoyed with and gigabyte's top notch quality. 

==========================================================================================================


Anyway guys, remember this clubhouse is for ALL ATI/AMD X1xxx and up products, meaning X1050 and higher. That means X1600pro users or X1800XT, HD2400PRO etcetra, users can come here for support. I don't think people got the message so... NEW COMPETITION!

Goal: To develop a new title for a clubhouse that satisfies the threshholds above! >=D

Anyway, this is what i do EVERY time i edit something on the clubhouse's first post (information post)...






ARRGHGH $*@&#*@*&#&* Its so huge...  Its sorta annoying but thankfully i had that Ctrl + F system implemented... so yeah thats how it looks like every time I try to edit the clubhouse =_=.


Message to other clubhouses: Dont copy me =_+


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## imperialreign (Nov 9, 2007)

we still commend ya on that daunting task, man!

BTW, seeing as how the whole X1Ks thing was brought up - I've got a VisionTek X1300 non-PRO 512MB GDDR2 laying around that I was going to mess with a bit more . . . vmod, tweak, etc. 

are there any other BIOS versions I can flash it to?  The card doesn't support fan control or hardware monitoring, so I know the Pro and XT models are out.


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 9, 2007)

lmfao! When you install any cooling system on a card like the X1300s imperialreign, shine a bright light around the card, and look at the core, perpendicular to the PCB and chip, then see if any light is shining between the cooler and GPU Die. 

Yeah you are pretty much blind though when you are using cards like that . Same problem with my 9550, I guessed how hot it ran by how much heat was being transferred to the heatsink. At first I was kinda surprised how bad the new nb cooler was, then i had a look and saw a TINY spec of light, and remounted the cooler. Then it overclocked like a dream. (its dead now!)

Mmm.. I WAS going to get two GDDR3 128MB X1600PRO ICE Q Turbo if you guys remember last year XD. Crossfire with X1600PROs would have looked awesome! Haha... At the moment I'm really annoyed at my Accelero being so loud... so I'd prefer a Crossfire X1600PRO ICEQ Turbo instead at the moment. Or even a HD2400PRO!

EDIT: My X1950PRO has the monitoring chip, the LM63 installed ... is fan speed control supported by ATI Tool by this chip? I think not as i dont see any RPM change nor temp difference if i ramp the fan speeds up.


----------



## imperialreign (Nov 9, 2007)

> EDIT: My X1950PRO has the monitoring chip, the LM63 installed ... is fan speed control supported by ATI Tool by this chip? I think not as i dont see any RPM change nor temp difference if i ramp the fan speeds up.



i wish my 1950 did, but it doesn't, adn I can't even find the location on my PCB where it should be installed   A little cheap, IMO, on ATI's part - especially for a $250 card.



> lmfao! When you install any cooling system on a card like the X1300s imperialreign, shine a bright light around the card, and look at the core, perpendicular to the PCB and chip, then see if any light is shining between the cooler and GPU Die.



Oh, no doubt!  On top of that, the TIM that was used on my 1300 was this really nasty, pinkish crap that I had to scrape off the HS with a razor blade before I could lap it down, and talk about a cooler that wasn't flat worth a crap!

I had it installed for a short amount of time a month or so ago - and I was able to take the GPU and MEM up a whole lot further than I initially thought I would . . . I was impressed, to say the least.  Anyhow, i just didn't know if there was some aspects of the hardware that was disabled on the card, but flashing to a differen BIOS would allow access to.

But, it's kinda sad, my X700 can clock higher than my 1300, and performs a ton better, too - plus, it has full hardware monitoring, fan control, mem timings and mem voltage all accessible.  Damn fine card, IMO.


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 9, 2007)

Jesus... I cant even remove the AcceleroX2 from the card... What the hell? The memory chips...provide as much retention as the screws themselves!!!


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## Wile E (Nov 9, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Jesus... I cant even remove the AcceleroX2 from the card... What the hell? The memory chips...provide as much retention as the screws themselves!!!



I had the same problem on my X1800XT. I just left it on. lol. I was afraid I was gonna pry out a chip.


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 9, 2007)

Wile E said:


> I had the same problem on my X1800XT. I just left it on. lol. I was afraid I was gonna pry out a chip.



I know the solution. You unscrew it and leave the PCB face up for like a few days. Make sure its cold. Several days later, the memory cooling pads should be decompressed and NOT stick to the card anymore. THats what i think. However I'm afraid Powercolor decided to use the stick on pads instead of the compression pads!


----------



## Wile E (Nov 9, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> I know the solution. You unscrew it and leave the PCB face up for like a few days. Make sure its cold. Several days later, the memory cooling pads should be decompressed and NOT stick to the card anymore. THats what i think. However I'm afraid Powercolor decided to use the stick on pads instead of the compression pads!


It definitely uses the stick on pads. They're a PITA. Could probably use some solvent, like non-residue electrical contact cleaner (make sure it's safe for plastic). That would probably get them unstuck, but you would likely have to replace them.


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 9, 2007)

Hmm... possibly give it an alcohol bath?


----------



## Wile E (Nov 9, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Hmm... possibly give it an alcohol bath?


That would probably work as well. Just need to weaken the glue.


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 9, 2007)

Wile E said:


> That would probably work as well. Just need to weaken the glue.



Damn anyway, it really sucks that i have to do this just to get the plastic shield of the accelero off! Geez, I need to check the bearing of the fan and this is stopping me from doing ANYTHING T_T.


----------



## erocker (Nov 9, 2007)

3870 is looking GOOD!!!  Some real benchmarks!!!!
http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=202510


----------



## imperialreign (Nov 9, 2007)

> Damn anyway, it really sucks that i have to do this just to get the plastic shield of the accelero off! Geez, I need to check the bearing of the fan and this is stopping me from doing ANYTHING T_T.



for thos esticky pads, you could always try to soak them with alcohol and then gently slide a credit card through them.

The only stuff I can think of that will dissolve adhesives are typically really bad for PCBs - standard lighter fluid might work, but not sure how it would affect a PCB, either.


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 9, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> for thos esticky pads, you could always try to soak them with alcohol and then gently slide a credit card through them.
> 
> The only stuff I can think of that will dissolve adhesives are typically really bad for PCBs - standard lighter fluid might work, but not sure how it would affect a PCB, either.



Yeah... You'd have to be extremely precise with that lighter fluid. There are so many productst that would dissolve the adhesives, but... I think they'd also corrode the PCB at the same time. Bah, ill just leave it at the moment. Almost used the whole bottle of alcohol.


----------



## Widjaja (Nov 10, 2007)

*The Clubhouse battles*

It's quite funny to watch.
And yes TK I commend you on the info you place right at the start.
This IS how every clubhouse should be.
Accumulate the info from everyone to one place.
A knowledge involved clubhouse.
Not one which is made up to just be in which a certain 'hat' wearing user has been making allover the place.
Possibly just to see his clubhouses gain members with disregard to actual knowledge and to be able to get enough posts to earn a custom user title?
He does have alot of thankyous though.
Wonder where thay came from?
I have to admit though he is dedicated in his efforts whatever they maybe. . . .

I have to agree with AthlonX2 about being too many clubhouses which can be put into already well established Clubhouses.

I hope this doesn't become the "HD2K Abandoned Clubhouse".

Have a VB for you efforts  YUCK!


----------



## panchoman (Nov 10, 2007)

i wear hats? lmao. hey how come im not on the members list? i though my x1950pro applied here a long long time. man i haven't been over here in a long time. my thanks come from all over the place, though quite a few come from my psu guide. custom title? that requires 5k posts, posts in the club forum dont count towards your post count 

are you guys suppossed to be making fun of me?


----------



## erocker (Nov 10, 2007)

Why don't you guys take this over to the kids club?  HD3870 beats out the 8800GT if anyone bothered to look at the link above.


----------



## panchoman (Nov 10, 2007)

an excellent idea erocker, i'll be at the teen club if anyone wants to talk face to face with me.


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## tkpenalty (Nov 10, 2007)

panchoman said:


> i wear hats? lmao. hey how come im not on the members list? i though my x1950pro applied here a long long time. man i haven't been over here in a long time. my thanks come from all over the place, though quite a few come from my psu guide. custom title? that requires 5k posts, posts in the club forum dont count towards your post count
> 
> are you guys suppossed to be making fun of me?



Err... I thought u were on the list  Imma have a check on the first page list... (too much info). I may make another thread for the member list lmao.


----------



## panchoman (Nov 10, 2007)

lol, i realized that i might run into that kind of trouble at the amd club, and so i made 2 reserved posts after the main on, gives me room to expand , though rather then quoting, which takes up a lot of room, you can write it out, would make the first post shorter and easier to go through.


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## SSXeon (Nov 10, 2007)

Looks like this is the pricing:

$150 Radeon HD3850 256MB (670/1656Mhz)
$180 Radeon HD3850 512MB (670/1656Mhz)
$200? Radeon HD3870 512MB (775/2250Mhz)
$230? Radeon HD3870 OC 512MB (825/2400Mhz?)

Ill get 2 of whatevers the fastest, and jack the volts and core/mem up. Ill also post benchies after i get them.  K off to play some crysis MP.


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 10, 2007)

panchoman said:


> lol, i realized that i might run into that kind of trouble at the amd club, and so i made 2 reserved posts after the main on, gives me room to expand , though rather then quoting, which takes up a lot of room, you can write it out, would make the first post shorter and easier to go through.



Not really, Ctrl + C magic . Its easy for me to browse once its on the forum, but is somewhat daunting when I edit it in word. DONT COPY ME  In addition, AMD/ATI Clubhouses or groups have gone down really quickly after massive arguments broke out... so good luck. You start small, not that huge. See this was a X1950PRO Clubhouse in the beginning, only for X1950PRO members, then it became a X1950GT/XT/PRO Clubhouse, Then X1950~HD2k, then X1k~HD2k. 



> Looks like this is the pricing:
> 
> $150 Radeon HD3850 256MB (670/1656Mhz)
> $180 Radeon HD3850 512MB (670/1656Mhz)
> ...



The HD3850 Shouldn't cost THAT much... same with the HD3870. HD3870 would cost $150. I'm avoiding Sapphire/Powercolor/ASUS, etcetra, they are all using the VRM solution which requires Several heatsinks...

Gigabyte's model looks really good imho.. With an aftermarket heatsink already bolted on, and being VRM free, Me want!


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 10, 2007)

UPDATE: Please correct me if I'm wrong in this section, and suggestions please. 



> =================================
> *L3. Best Air coolers for HD2400/HD2600 Series + Installation and Warning notes.*
> =================================
> Please note, this section is to refer to coolers that will work with the HD2k Series, EXCLUDING the 2900s. Basically these coolers will work with the HD2400 and HD2600.
> ...


----------



## SSXeon (Nov 10, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> The HD3850 Shouldn't cost THAT much... same with the HD3870. HD3870 would cost $150. I'm avoiding Sapphire/Powercolor/ASUS, etcetra, they are all using the VRM solution which requires Several heatsinks...
> 
> Gigabyte's model looks really good imho.. With an aftermarket heatsink already bolted on, and being VRM free, Me want!



That much?! $150 for a HD3850 with 256MB of ram is alot?!?! As of now HD3870 (775/2250Mhz) will cost $200MSRP. Oced versions should follow by HIS and sapphire, hopefully also MSI to $230ish. Gigabyte better oc their cards with their amazing parts they use for their motherboards, as they will use with this:


----------



## panchoman (Nov 10, 2007)

cool gigabyte, thats the 3870 right?


----------



## SSXeon (Nov 10, 2007)

panchoman said:


> cool gigabyte, thats the 3870 right?



from whats under the core its a 3850, or a "RX295P" aka 2950Pro aka HD3850.  Would be nice to see some gigabyte card but 3870 and a VF900 Heatsink.


----------



## panchoman (Nov 10, 2007)

my only real problem with is that theres no memory or v reg hsf's(though theres 3 phase so i guess thats why).. wheres the memory hsfs?!?!


----------



## imperialreign (Nov 10, 2007)

If the most recent X1ks revisions are any indicator as to how the cards will tier out - I'd stay away from ATI, VisionTek, Diamond and the other mid-ranges if you're looking for anything that OCs decent - if hardware monitoring and fan speed control is a big issue for you, shoot for the XT models.


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 10, 2007)

Actually, having a look, the only reason why the reference design needed heatsinks on the "Vregs" was because it was a two phase setup. The heatsinks were to be installed on the MOFSET. However due to the three phase on the gigabyte, it means less heat is generated due to less power current being converted; thus removing any need for heatsinks. Moreover it increases stability when overclocking as voltages remain stable.


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 10, 2007)

Athlon X2, request to join, processed.

===========================================================================================================
Just had a check on the GPUs that our clubhouse had out of curiosity. Results are as follows:

X1950GT/PRO (RV570) = 14
X1950XT/XTX (R580+) = 8
HD2900XT/PRO (R600) = 3
HD2600XT/PRO (RV670)= 1

Yeah... lol. Err anyway, I need more information for the clubhouse for current users, including your setup, and possibly the history you have had with the GPU as well as the information about the brand. From what we can see the X1950PRO/GTs are extremely popular, whilst the X1950XT/XTXs are moderately. However since the HD series has had less than a year to catch on, it gives those results.

=========================================================================================================


----------



## SSXeon (Nov 10, 2007)

panchoman said:


> my only real problem with is that theres no memory or v reg hsf's(though theres 3 phase so i guess thats why).. wheres the memory hsfs?!?!



3 phase is power, the amount of power that can handle voltage, the HD3879 uses a 2 and same with 88GT. Its great gigabyte used their own compacitors to make a more stable overclocking board, ala their Intel motherboards.


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 10, 2007)

SSXeon said:


> 3 phase is power, the amount of power that can handle voltage, the HD3879 uses a 2 and same with 88GT. Its great gigabyte used their own compacitors to make a more stable overclocking board, ala their Intel motherboards.



Nope, three phase is just another way to say three rails. Each phase is a power supply's rail, as in the components. If you have two sets of components (two phase), there will be more amperage through each phase, thus more heat, if you have three sets of the components (three phase), you will have less heat, and the components will work less. Therefore its optimal for overclockers who overvolt their cards, as the power delivery will be able to supply more wattage to the core/memory. Thats what each phase is, a mini PSU.

On the topic of Rails, multi rails are designed to reduce the load on components. Not a marketing trick >_>.



panchoman said:


> my only real problem with is that theres no memory or v reg hsf's(though theres 3 phase so i guess thats why).. wheres the memory hsfs?!?!



LOL... There is so much I could correct XD. First off, HSF means "Heat sink fan" , secondly, There are no digital vregs like the X1950PROs, the things that are mistaken for vregs are MOFSETs. In a standard voltage regulation setup, it goes like this, MOFSET + Choke + Capacitor, the only part that can be heatsinked and generates the most heat are the MOFEST. The memory doesn't need cooling, those days are over! Unless of course you are planning on chucking a world record, or if the GPU uses GDDR2. But memory IC cooling is fairly redundant, those mem sink these days are more useful for cooling mofsets or Digital vrms. Yeah, just my 2 cents.

Guys if you havent looked at my PC, please do. I'd want the current opinion on systems such as my one.


----------



## panchoman (Nov 10, 2007)

so the core is the only thing thats left to be cooled, and it keeps shrinking, and so eventually hopefully we'll be looking at very powerful cards that hardly require cooling... sweetness.. so then i supposs there wont be much heat issues when running quad 3870's?


----------



## imperialreign (Nov 10, 2007)

I'd like to see ATI do something like what nVidia did with some of their recent cards, and use a single slot cooler design, instead of needing dual slots.  I'm all for space efficiency.


----------



## panchoman (Nov 10, 2007)

aren't the new 3800 series avaliable both in dual slot & single slot?


----------



## erocker (Nov 10, 2007)

There will be a 1gb 3870 btw...


----------



## panchoman (Nov 10, 2007)

whoa very sweet, would be good for playing on projectors and all


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## erocker (Nov 10, 2007)

Here are some pics and bench's you!


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## SSXeon (Nov 10, 2007)

erocker said:


> Here are some pics and bench's you!



Hmm that cooler doesnt look as efficent as the 2900XT or X1950XTX.  Might have to go with a VF900 on em.


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## tkpenalty (Nov 10, 2007)

SSXeon said:


> Hmm that cooler doesnt look as efficent as the 2900XT or X1950XTX.  Might have to go with a VF900 on em.



Its a cool running card, so i wouldnt be surprised if that cooler is just a copper fin block without any heatpipes which is designed badly. 
The 3D Performance of the card... is as fast as an overclocked 8800GT. This shall be interesting to see if the card will do the same in actual gaming. One thing to note, I remember coolaler said that the card was fairly toasty, and that the stock cooler was just rubbish.


----------



## panchoman (Nov 10, 2007)

wonder if the 38xx series will be heavily dependent on the cpu?  a lot cpu's became bottlenecks for the 2900xt's


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## tkpenalty (Nov 10, 2007)

panchoman said:


> wonder if the 38xx series will be heavily dependent on the cpu?  a lot cpu's became bottlenecks for the 2900xt's



Doubt it, TRT07 had to clock his Q6600 + 8800GT to hell to get a similar speed. A yorky is more efficient, but by not much so yeah, and consider that the yorkfield is running at 3Ghz. I would love for them to use actual game benchmarks instead of this to test their cards. 3DMarks doesnt give a proper score these days. Its turned from a benchmark to somewhat a game now.

EDIT: TRT's CPU scored 2000 more points.


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## SSXeon (Nov 11, 2007)

If the card is slightly slower @ 825 then a 88GT in crysis the cards will sell well. I really wana see people hitting over 900Mhz, you might need to bump up the voltage to get higher.


----------



## panchoman (Nov 11, 2007)

well seeing that they are 55nm, they should produce less heat, which will let them eat more voltage & get clocked higher.


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## tkpenalty (Nov 11, 2007)

SSXeon said:


> If the card is slightly slower @ 825 then a 88GT in crysis the cards will sell well. I really wana see people hitting over 900Mhz, you might need to bump up the voltage to get higher.



I'm expecting the gigabyte cards to be popular. No need to cool the mofsets... and three phase means overvolting wont put much strain on the cards. I was going to get a gigabyte X1950PRO, but... out of stock-ness sucks.


----------



## panchoman (Nov 11, 2007)

are gigabyte x1950pro's 3 phase? i need a better x1950pro lol


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## imperialreign (Nov 11, 2007)

> Doubt it, TRT07 had to clock his Q6600 + 8800GT to hell to get a similar speed. A yorky is more efficient, but by not much so yeah, and consider that the yorkfield is running at 3Ghz. I would love for them to use actual game benchmarks instead of this to test their cards. 3DMarks doesnt give a proper score these days. Its turned from a benchmark to somewhat a game now.



agreed - and thankfully, a lot of the game devs have been including ways to benchmark using the game itself, which really gives you a better idea as to how a specific game runs on a system.  For example, the Crysis demo had a CPU and a GPU burried in the directories, and no matter what changes I made to the dirver tweaks through ATT, I still got a similar score.  A lot of games force driver changes once the game engine loads up, which completely changes what kind of performance you'll see as compared to what you expect.

Besides, the Crysis benchmarks showed results that were on-par with what I was actually seeing in-game.


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## tkpenalty (Nov 11, 2007)

panchoman said:


> are gigabyte x1950pro's 3 phase? i need a better x1950pro lol



Nup. Sapphires ones are fine. Sapphire make good cards, high quality stuff, but the biggest letdown is that they dont give jack about how cool the card runs, as well as how loud it runs. Like the X1950PRO has digital two phase power, and you will need the VRM heatsink installed if you want to change the cooling solution. VF900 or acceleroX2 are the two best solutions for the X1950PRO. 

No point in getting a better X1950PRO. These cards dont like to overclock anyway, so its not very useful... unless you want to crossfire. Even if its not 3 phase, the Gigabyte's X1950PRO is good anyway.


----------



## panchoman (Nov 11, 2007)

lol, i meant new x1950pro as in like exchange it lol. 

yeah you've pinpointed sapphire, my cooling sucks, i cant really oc this card cause of the heat, and i've got rev 1 which runs dumb hot and all you know.


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 11, 2007)

panchoman said:


> lol, i meant new x1950pro as in like exchange it lol.
> 
> yeah you've pinpointed sapphire, my cooling sucks, i cant really oc this card cause of the heat, and i've got rev 1 which runs dumb hot and all you know.



Replace the cooler o.o Even something like a VF700ALCU which is dirt cheap as hell would blow the stock cooler away. I'd recommend purchasing the AcceleroX2 though, since its a all in one solution, with the VRM plate as well as everything else cooled. 

(What do you think about my new sig)


----------



## panchoman (Nov 11, 2007)

i've got about 80 bucks to spend on my comp, and its from my compensation check for my hdd so i gotta find a good hdd as well as a controller panel w/ audio, as well as some new fans and stuff..

speaking of avs, are you a photoshoper? cause im just finishing up a prototype sig of a new StackerZ sig system that im working on, and so if you want to get a head start with deveolping the sigs, lemme know and i can give the specs. i do need a StackerZ MicroZ for this club in my sig..


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 11, 2007)

panchoman said:


> i've got about 80 bucks to spend on my comp, and its from my compensation check for my hdd so i gotta find a good hdd as well as a controller panel w/ audio, as well as some new fans and stuff..
> 
> *speaking of avs, are you a photoshoper? cause im just finishing up a prototype sig of a new StackerZ sig system that im working on, and so if you want to get a head start with deveolping the sigs, lemme know and i can give the specs. i do need a StackerZ MicroZ for this club in my sig..*



Can you rephrase that


----------



## hat (Nov 11, 2007)

He's working on these sig pics for clubhouses that are relatively small, so you can put a whole bunch of them togeather to make a normal sized sig, only representing all of the clubs you are in, not just one. 
StackerZ are 500x25
StackerZ MicroZ are 500x20

I use 500x20 simply cause it's smaller/faster to load.


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## panchoman (Nov 11, 2007)

hats got it, hat's got 3 Stackerz stacked in his StakZ, i've got 4 Stackerz, and then 2 MicroZ on the last row for my StakZ


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## tkpenalty (Nov 11, 2007)

Stacking looks ugly lol...


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## Wile E (Nov 11, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Stacking looks ugly lol...


Not if it's done right.




You guys need to give the stack-sigs a more bubbled look. So it looks more 3d-ish, instead of completely flat. Like the ones here: http://www.userbars.org/

There's even a tutorial on that site.


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 11, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Not if it's done right.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nah I was referring to their stacked ones. If done right, they should have that line shading that my sig has, as well as a somewhat glassy look and a border. The colour schemes are conflicting as well. I could easily make you guys some of these sigs if you need them though. Just give me a pm.


----------



## panchoman (Nov 11, 2007)

of course the ones i've done SUCK... its my crappy photoshoping skills that i used for deveolping a photoshop... me and jr are working on the nice stackerz. its the concept that i'm working on for the prototype rather then the artwork.


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 12, 2007)

AMD Seems to be starting to lean towards the value-mid range segment for Graphics cards at the moment. Argh... Stupid LM63 chip is preventing any fan control of my AcceleroX2 from occuring at all. I might as well wire the fan to the motherboard header instead.


----------



## Lopez0101 (Nov 12, 2007)

Honestly I hope they don't stay there. It would suck to see ATi go the way of mid-to-low range only. I don't want to only have one choice when it comes to the enthusiast class. And if it was just one choice you'd be paying a bit more than if it wasn't the only choice.


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 12, 2007)

HOLY SHIT THAT LOOKS-










Nice! I like the fact that the memory cooling and the MOFSET cooling is seperate. But what I don't like is the stock cooler itself. It seems very insufficient, Whats up with just a solid copper fin block? I wouldnt have to worry about these issues, as I would purchase a Gigabyte HD3870.


----------



## Wile E (Nov 12, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> HOLY SHIT THAT LOOKS-
> http://www.twrococ.com/video/3870/3870front.JPG
> http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/Genocide737/3870na.jpg
> 
> Nice! I like the fact that the memory cooling and the MOFSET cooling is seperate. But what I don't like is the stock cooler itself. It seems very insufficient, Whats up with just a solid copper fin block? I wouldnt have to worry about these issues, as I would purchase a Gigabyte HD3870.


No shim around the gpu die. Looks like existing water blocks will fit. Plus the already added bonus of ram and MOSFET sinks. Looks like a winning cooling design to me. I'll hold out a little longer to see more reviews.


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 12, 2007)

Wile E said:


> No shim around the gpu die. Looks like existing water blocks will fit. Plus the already added bonus of ram and MOSFET sinks. Looks like a winning cooling design to me. I'll hold out a little longer to see more reviews.



Haha yeah, they pulled EVERYTHING, except the core cooling copper block, off properly.


----------



## Widjaja (Nov 12, 2007)

That 3870 sure looks good and hopefully it is.
I believe Sapphire, possibly diamondview will most probably use the silver flame job like the 2900XT.


----------



## Wile E (Nov 12, 2007)

Man, judging by the early reviews, the 8800GT is ahead. Gonna be a tough choice between 88GT and 3870 now. I've always trusted ATI more, because I've had more good experiences with them, but I don't want to be a fanboy either. I think I did the right thing with my 2900 purchase, as the drivers matured and performance increased to put it where it needed to be, but now that ATI has experience coding for this architecture, I don't believe the 38xx series will see the same growth.


----------



## Darknova (Nov 12, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Man, judging by the early reviews, the 8800GT is ahead. Gonna be a tough choice between 88GT and 3870 now. I've always trusted ATI more, because I've had more good experiences with them, but I don't want to be a fanboy either. I think I did the right thing with my 2900 purchase, as the drivers matured and performance increased to put it where it needed to be, but now that ATI has experience coding for this architecture, I don't believe the 38xx series will see the same growth.



Crysis Min FPS 8800GT - 0.4

Crysis Min FPS 3870 - 9.13

Nope, 3870 does it better, I'd rather have lower but more consistant fps.


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 12, 2007)

Darknova said:


> Crysis Min FPS 8800GT - 0.4
> 
> Crysis Min FPS 3870 - 9.13
> 
> Nope, 3870 does it better, I'd rather have lower but more consistant fps.



Same here... if you have random bursts of high FPS, its fairly annoying to play... however, if you have a consistent framerate (example, my X1950PRO in NFSRO Street), the gaming performance will be MUCH better. Seriously, high averages doesnt mean a lot, if there is a large range in performance. A few days ago I thought the 8800GT would be the king... but, problems keep rolling in. Gigabyte HD3870 here I come!


----------



## Wile E (Nov 12, 2007)

That review is moot, as neither card maintains playable framerates, and the difference between the minimum fps is like 2fps. It doesn't really show much.

I may just say screw it and finally break down and buy a water block for my 2900, and clock the snot out of it. Perhaps even go TEC, and shoot for as close as I can to 1GHz core.


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 12, 2007)

Okay guys, cut it out alright? No more discussion about how the card performs, just discussion on things like the pcb, etcetra. I dont want any arguments to flare up in the club. Wait for the card to come out in a few more days, THEN discuss/hypothesize about its performance, for now, only post links and pics about it.


----------



## mrpobears (Nov 12, 2007)

Sorry if this has been asked before, I've gone through many pages, but didn't see this mentioned.  While running the CCC tool, to auto detect the best speed, my card keeps crashing, anyone else having this problem?  Or do I have a defective card?  I bought the Sapphire 1 gig version of the 2900Pro.


----------



## Wile E (Nov 12, 2007)

mrpobears said:


> Sorry if this has been asked before, I've gone through many pages, but didn't see this mentioned.  While running the CCC tool, to auto detect the best speed, my card keeps crashing, anyone else having this problem?  Or do I have a defective card?  I bought the Sapphire 1 gig version of the 2900Pro.


By crashing, what exactly do you mean? What's the computer doing? Is it doing it at around the same clocks every time?

need a little more info.

And if you could, please go to your UserCP for this site, and fill out your system specs.


----------



## Wile E (Nov 12, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Okay guys, cut it out alright? No more discussion about how the card performs, just discussion on things like the pcb, etcetra. I dont want any arguments to flare up in the club. Wait for the card to come out in a few more days, THEN discuss/hypothesize about its performance, for now, only post links and pics about it.


Tk, we are not arguing, we are politely discussing things, and nobody is even close to getting out of line. Lighten up.


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 13, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Tk, we are not arguing, we are politely discussing things, and nobody is even close to getting out of line. Lighten up.



Yeah sorry... Stupid exam stress and post exam depression


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 13, 2007)

Quad Crossfire, interesting, if it was with low end cards I wouldnt make any fuss over it, but... seeing how these are supposedly, high end cards, I'd love to see how these cards perform! Its definately something, in comparison to two HD2900XTs in crossfire!


----------



## panchoman (Nov 13, 2007)

what are the differences between pci regular & pci 2.0??


----------



## DOM (Nov 13, 2007)

panchoman said:


> what are the differences between pci regular & pci 2.0??


lol its pci-e 


giorgos th. said:


> The PCI Express 2.0 specification extends the data rate of PCI Express to 5GT/s (5GHz) in a manner compatible with the existing PCI Express 1.1 specifications that support 2.5GT/s (2.5GHz) signaling.


----------



## imperialreign (Nov 13, 2007)

I wonder if by quadfire they're including their plans for one GPU to act as a dedicated PPU?  Either way, I'd like to see ATI go tri- or quadfire before nVidia get triSLI to market.


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 14, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> I wonder if by quadfire they're including their plans for one GPU to act as a dedicated PPU?  Either way, I'd like to see ATI go tri- or quadfire before nVidia get triSLI to market.



ATI is already planning on Quadfire. Physics... at the moment, is pretty much still a concept.


----------



## panchoman (Nov 14, 2007)

hmmm, doesn't the new x-fire let you have different gpus working together? and some do physics other do the main processing, etc.???


----------



## Lopez0101 (Nov 14, 2007)

One of the things that ATi liked to talk about was that Xfire has worked with different GPU's for a while. I think since it first debuted it worked with different GPU's. It just decreases the effectiveness of the stronger card down to that of the weaker one I think.


----------



## panchoman (Nov 14, 2007)

http://ati.amd.com/technology/crossfire/physics/index.html

how ati plans on physics working atm, i heard that the x19xx series are great for physics and stuff

also its called Crossfire X







http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=42200&highlight=crossfire


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## SSXeon (Nov 14, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> I wonder if by quadfire they're including their plans for one GPU to act as a dedicated PPU?  Either way, I'd like to see ATI go tri- or quadfire before nVidia get triSLI to market.



Doubt it yet as no games will even use nvidia or ATi for physics, crysis i believe uses the CPU. Not sure tho.


----------



## erocker (Nov 14, 2007)

From one of todays front page posts: *"AMD quite pleased with R680"*

I am also pleased with my daily 9AM defecation!  Very powerful!

Sorry, I don't know why I had to say it, but I did!  Didn't want to put it on the front page though...  I would love a R680, it would give me something to look forward to at work...


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## SSXeon (Nov 14, 2007)

erocker said:


> From one of todays front page posts: *"AMD quite pleased with R680"*
> 
> I am also pleased with my daily 9AM defecation!  Very powerful!
> 
> Sorry, I don't know why I had to say it, but I did!  Didn't want to put it on the front page though...  I would love a R680, it would give me something to look forward to at work...



Hell yeah they are. It might even be 800/2400 as the 3870 should have been. But they wanted to ship 250k, as its looken like they will, followed by 150k before christmas.  BTW here is kinda what the layout of the R680 is, this is 2x RV630s (2600XTs):


----------



## Lopez0101 (Nov 14, 2007)

What's the big chip on the bottom? Something to do with keeping work on each GPU even or something even with Cross Fire X?


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 14, 2007)

Lopez0101 said:


> One of the things that ATi liked to talk about was that Xfire has worked with different GPU's for a while. I think since it first debuted it worked with different GPU's. It just decreases the effectiveness of the stronger card down to that of the weaker one I think.



Um.... incorrect. Crossfire DOESNT work with other cards. Unless you are talking about the crossfire Master card. However, you must realize that these "different" cards were all essentially the same thing, having the same core. However, if you have different cores used for the cards... you cannot crossfire them. This only applies to the older dongled X1900, X1950, X800, X850 series, NOT, any other series, from the X1950 Series, the X1950PRO/GT is excluded as well from this classification, due to the Masterless crossfire.



SSXeon said:


> Hell yeah they are. It might even be 800/2400 as the 3870 should have been. But they wanted to ship 250k, as its looken like they will, followed by 150k before christmas.  BTW here is kinda what the layout of the R680 is, this is 2x RV630s (2600XTs):



HD2600 Quad... Quad for Quad DVI, its so-so card. That chip is essentially an "inner northbridge", somewhat emulating crossfire, and making the two GPUs work as one.


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## SSXeon (Nov 14, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Um.... incorrect. Crossfire DOESNT work with other cards. Unless you are talking about the crossfire Master card. However, you must realize that these "different" cards were all essentially the same thing, having the same core. However, if you have different cores used for the cards... you cannot crossfire them. This only applies to the older dongled X1900, X1950, X800, X850 series, NOT, any other series, from the X1950 Series, the X1950PRO/GT is excluded as well from this classification, due to the Masterless crossfire.
> 
> HD2600 Quad... Quad for Quad DVI, its so-so card. That chip is essentially an "inner northbridge", somewhat emulating crossfire, and making the two GPUs work as one.



Crossfire works with different clocked cards too. Funny i knew this before the pics came about, with the jap's (i dont think this is a bad word to use, but then again we live in america where their is no 1st amendment anymore. ). So i can say something about it now.  Older cards had this problem but now ATi has learned and now has 2 12-bit connectors on the tops of all their new cards.  1 more full day to go before alot are impressed what a $220 card can do!


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## hat (Nov 14, 2007)

R680 looks great...


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## imperialreign (Nov 14, 2007)

> One of the things that ATi liked to talk about was that Xfire has worked with different GPU's for a while. I think since it first debuted it worked with different GPU's. It just decreases the effectiveness of the stronger card down to that of the weaker one I think.



tk's right on his response - the cards *currently* have to be of the same series.  The only difference with the newer (1800 ?) 1900 series is that they don't require a master/slave anymore.

But, rumor has it that ATI are currently working on implementing differing series cross fire, which whould allow you to xfire a 1950 with a 1600, or a 2900 with a 1300 - they didn't mention if this will be graphic crossfire or 1+1 GPU/PPU.  Downside is that you'll need a chipset that supports this type of xfire, unless they can write drivers for other chipsets (which I doubt they'll do).


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## tkpenalty (Nov 15, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> tk's right on his response - the cards *currently* have to be of the same series.  The only difference with the newer (1800 ?) 1900 series is that they don't require a master/slave anymore.
> 
> But, rumor has it that ATI are currently working on implementing differing series cross fire, which whould allow you to xfire a 1950 with a 1600, or a 2900 with a 1300 - they didn't mention if this will be graphic crossfire or 1+1 GPU/PPU.  Downside is that you'll need a chipset that supports this type of xfire, unless they can write drivers for other chipsets (which I doubt they'll do).



How badly do I wish that rumor was true >=D


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## Wile E (Nov 15, 2007)

3870 and 3850 will Crossfire, no problems.


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## imperialreign (Nov 15, 2007)

> How badly do I wish that rumor was true >=D



same here - and, IMO, if ATI pulled it off - it'd defi give them an edge over nVidia insofaras the budget gamers with older cards still laying around are concerned.


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## tkpenalty (Nov 15, 2007)

Wile E said:


> 3870 and 3850 will Crossfire, no problems.



Obviously thanks to the same Core.


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## imperialreign (Nov 15, 2007)

lol, tk! I noticed in your sig, when did you decide to include the HD3ks in this thread?


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## Athlon2K15 (Nov 15, 2007)

has anyone seen anything on vmods for the hd2600xt's? ive been googling for awhile and havent seen anything,surely i must have missed it


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## Wile E (Nov 15, 2007)

AthlonX2 said:


> has anyone seen anything on vmods for the hd2600xt's? ive been googling for awhile and havent seen anything,surely i must have missed it


Might want to shoot pt a pm. He had one for a while. Maybe he knows?


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## tkpenalty (Nov 15, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> lol, tk! I noticed in your sig, when did you decide to include the HD3ks in this thread?



As soon as their existance was proved to be true?


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## imperialreign (Nov 15, 2007)

lol - anyhow, I was thinking if you're still looking to get more users into the clubhouse, why not extend coverage to the X~00 series?  The only ones still really in use are the 700 and 800 line, and they don't differ all too much from the 1ks.


Anyhow - I wanted to ask on this - a buddy of mine is getting a 2900 card, and he's willing to give up his VisionTek X1950PRO XGE 256MB GDDR3 for $85.  It's a newer revision card that doesn't require the slave/master setup for xFire (as far as I know).  I can't really pass up a deal like that, the card is only about 6mo. old.

My question - I'm farily certain that card will xFire with my ATI X1950 PRO 256MB GDDR3 without a problem.

Or am I wrong in my assumption and it wouldn't work?  $85 cash for a second 1950 is a steal, far as I'm concerned.


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## panchoman (Nov 15, 2007)

crossfire X (which i think the 790fx's can do) allows "crossfire hybrid" where you can crossfire different ati gpus together,


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## tkpenalty (Nov 16, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> lol - anyhow, I was thinking if you're still looking to get more users into the clubhouse, why not extend coverage to the X~00 series?  The only ones still really in use are the 700 and 800 line, and they don't differ all too much from the 1ks.
> 
> 
> Anyhow - I wanted to ask on this - a buddy of mine is getting a 2900 card, and he's willing to give up his VisionTek X1950PRO XGE 256MB GDDR3 for $85.  It's a newer revision card that doesn't require the slave/master setup for xFire (as far as I know).  I can't really pass up a deal like that, the card is only about 6mo. old.
> ...



Yep, the X1950PRO will work 100%. Just be sure to get another cooler as Xpertvision use a dreadful cooler.


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## Wile E (Nov 16, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Yep, the X1950PRO will work 100%. Just be sure to get another cooler as Xpertvision use a dreadful cooler.


No, it's not guaranteed to work 100%, just ask nFlesher. You MUST make sure one of the cards has the compositing chip on it. Some do not. Neither of nFlesher's 1950Pros had them, and Crossfire wouldn't work properly, it just gave a garbled screen in 3D apps.


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## tkpenalty (Nov 16, 2007)

Wile E said:


> No, it's not guaranteed to work 100%, just ask nFlesher. You MUST make sure one of the cards has the compositing chip on it. Some do not. Neither of nFlesher's 1950Pros had them, and Crossfire wouldn't work properly, it just gave a garbled screen in 3D apps.



My apologies


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## Wile E (Nov 16, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> My apologies


No need to apologize. lol.

Might want to mention that in the first post somewhere tho. I think it was mentioned in a thread in here somewhere, so I'll try to find pics while I'm at it.


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## Wile E (Nov 16, 2007)

Actually, TK, you posted in the thread I was referring to, claiming the info was false. They said it had to do with the Rage Theater chip.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=517180&postcount=113

Now, nFlesher was at my house when he first got the 2nd 1950Pro, neither of them had the chip, and Crossfire did not work on those cards. Even went so far as to flash different BIOSes in an attempt to get it to work. And a CPU bottleneck was not nFlesher's problem, as he had his Quad @ 3GHz. BIOS updates on his board, different drivers, everything. Those cards would not Crossfire at all.

If it's not posted as fact, it should at least be mentioned as a possibility.


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## mrpobears (Nov 16, 2007)

> Originally Posted by mrpobears  View Post
> Sorry if this has been asked before, I've gone through many pages, but didn't see this mentioned. While running the CCC tool, to auto detect the best speed, my card keeps crashing, anyone else having this problem? Or do I have a defective card? I bought the Sapphire 1 gig version of the 2900Pro.
> By crashing, what exactly do you mean? What's the computer doing? Is it doing it at around the same clocks every time?
> 
> ...



It just freezes on me, everything locks up, mouse, keyboard, etc.


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## imperialreign (Nov 16, 2007)

so, I should make sure both cards have that chip on them before I alleviate my friend of his card?

But, if the product box says it's Crossfire ready, shouldn't it be?  Or would that mean it needs a master/slave setup?

Like I mentioned, both my card and my boy's 1950 are the newer revision cards (his actually looks exactly like mine, the only difference, far as I can tell, is a different sticker on the cooler).  Here's a pic I found through google of the VisionTek 1950 PRO XGE (minus the fact the one in the pic is AGP):












edit>> Anyhow, I just figured that once my friend gets his 2900, I'll just see if he'll let me borrow the 1950 so I can install it and see if xFire will work.  If so, I'll buy it off him, if it doesn't, than he can get rid of it himself (or I might buy it from him and hold onto it - it's a friggin 1950!).


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## tkpenalty (Nov 18, 2007)

What the hell. How did the club die momentarily? Anyway, the HD3870/50s... Amazing truly, for their price they sure pack a lot of punch. I might in fact get a Powercolor HD3850 Extreme 256MB. Deja Vu anyone? Yes, I have a Powercolor X1950PRO Extreme 256MB, take note of that. I find it funny that the HD3850/70 will be priced around the same price as the X1950PRO/XTs, when they were released here, haha... the good old days. 

I need a job though.


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## tkpenalty (Nov 20, 2007)

*Bump 2#*


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## imperialreign (Nov 20, 2007)

damn, this thread has been kinda dead . . .

anyhow . . . still waiting on my friend to get his 2900 - so I can check and see if his current 1950PRO will xFire with mine without a hitch.  Even still, I may just buy the card off him for that $85 and see what I can't seel it for on ebay.

If xFire does work out, it oughta be a somewhat decent performance gain until I've got enough loot for a 4core.


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## grunt_408 (Nov 20, 2007)

I have been thinking of getting another X1950 for x-fire Been umin and arin anyway!


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## mitsirfishi (Nov 20, 2007)

i would just get a 2900gt as they are cheap as chips but spend a extra 25-30 pounds probilly 
$50-60 then id get a 3850pro


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## HookeyStreet (Nov 20, 2007)

Do I qualify for membership


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## Widjaja (Nov 20, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> I have been thinking of getting another X1950 for x-fire Been umin and arin anyway!



If the price is right go for it.
I'm sure they're pretty cheap over there by now.

Unlike wayyyyy over here.


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## imperialreign (Nov 20, 2007)

X1950 prices in the US are falling like MIR rubble right now . . .

But, the only reason I'm going this route (if it works) is cause my boy will give his card up for $85 - I might even be able to talk him to $70.  Either way, my current card, I only paied $150 for after rebates and all, even if I pay my friend $85 - that's still a fairly cheap total for a xFire setup.


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## tkpenalty (Nov 21, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> X1950 prices in the US are falling like MIR rubble right now . . .
> 
> But, the only reason I'm going this route (if it works) is cause my boy will give his card up for $85 - I might even be able to talk him to $70.  Either way, my current card, I only paied $150 for after rebates and all, even if I pay my friend $85 - that's still a fairly cheap total for a xFire setup.



Crossfire eh? It would give a substantial boost in performance. In this case, crossfire would be more beneficial than a new card itself, so go for it. 

Anyway, finally purchased another set of 92mm intakes, and replaced my PSU fan with a ZM-F3, not a low RPM silent fan (600RPM )! Stupid coolermaster made the PSU run according to the load and not the temperature. Well the zalman fixed it up, with better clearance, and silicone grommets, meaning two of the things

-The fan is deeper in the PSU by 1mm, which means there will be better airflow overall
-The fan doesnt hit the fan grille like my EZ Cool replacement did. 

Anyway, can someone explain to me why on earth does ATI Overdrive not work with the 7.10 Driver releases?


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## tkpenalty (Nov 21, 2007)

HookeyStreet said:


> Do I qualify for membership



Thats obvious  Yes. 

Heh... I like your system. Oh yeah, about what Zek posted in your Case mod thread, he said it would sound like a leaf blower right? Well, if you got the first batch of HD2900XTs, they would have, with the dual heatpipes! Meaning very poor cooling which would have caused your HD2900XTs to sound like two vacuum cleaners. Its fortunate that you have HD2900XTs with three heatpipes... too bad you didnt wait for the HD3870s however.


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## grunt_408 (Nov 24, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> If the price is right go for it.
> I'm sure they're pretty cheap over there by now.
> 
> Unlike wayyyyy over here.



Long time no see Widjaja I have started to O/C My system So far only got 2.77 GHz on stock cooling and she is running a little warm so I am waiting for a Zalman cooler and see what I will get out of it then.


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## Widjaja (Nov 24, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Long time no see Widjaja I have started to O/C My system So far only got 2.77 GHz on stock cooling and she is running a little warm so I am waiting for a Zalman cooler and see what I will get out of it then.



Hey howsit.
My bro OC'd his E6600 to 2.9Ghz stable 24/7 on stock.
He doesn't even check his max load temps.
He shrugged his shoulders and said "If it freezes it's time to drop the OC a bit".
His ASUS i975 P5 something. . .motherboard just shat itself though.
The NB H/S came loose and fried the NB chip and took out a cap in the process.

I've been looking at getting a Scythe Infinity CPU cooler for a while now.

Saw your pure filth thread, it made me clean my PC.
Stole my girlfriends brand new unused blusher and used an air compressor.
She uses it still, but thats because she doesn't know I have cleaned out the dust in my PC with it.


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## imperialreign (Nov 24, 2007)

> Saw your pure filth thread, it made me clean my PC.
> Stole my girlfriends brand new unused blusher and used an air compressor.
> She uses it still, but thats because she doesn't know I have cleaned out the dust in my PC with it.





That's funny man!  What they don't know won't ever hurt 'em!

cb:  The Zalman performs well, IMO.  It manages to keep my OC P4 about 32C at idle, and about 45C under max load when I'm clocked in over 4GHz.  It's a little bulky and somewhat heavy . . . I would've gotten the 9700 cooler, but my case wouldn't fit it.  If you do go with the Zalman, just make sure to check your clearances before ordering something up


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## Widjaja (Nov 25, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> That's funny man!  What they don't know won't ever hurt 'em!



Everytime I look at her face with makeup on I think of my dust free PC.
Apparently I have this cheeky smile now when I look at her, like I'm hiding something . . . .

I just say "Maybe. . . .or maybe you just make me smile."
Either way it is true.

She knows I'm sneeky anyway.

I was nice enough to clean most the dust out of the blusher.
Didn't want her face to look a shade of brown/grey.


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## imperialreign (Nov 25, 2007)

That's funny!

It's only a matter of time, though, before she catches on to it - trust me!  And it'll come up when you least expect it, and you're already losing an argument.


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## Widjaja (Nov 25, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> It's only a matter of time, though, before she catches on to it.



Oh yeah.
Sometimes when I look at her I smile then I let out a little laugh now.
I'm going to run out of excuses soon.
She seems to like me like this though because I'm I'm always smiling around her.

Excuse I have used:-
I was thinking of something funny. X3
Do you remember. . . X5
I saw this thing on T.V. X1 
I'll tell you a joke. X3

When or if I own up I'm sure she'll be forgiving once she's beaten me up then done something similar back to me or cook me something and put something nasty in it.


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## tkpenalty (Nov 25, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Long time no see Widjaja I have started to O/C My system So far only got 2.77 GHz on stock cooling and she is running a little warm so I am waiting for a Zalman cooler and see what I will get out of it then.



Craig... I wouldnt go with the zalman- we live in Australia, where its extremely humid + warm. So... you wont be getting 4Ghz easily, remember that its winter over there, and that its MUCH colder over up north in the US...

http://www.pccasegear.com/prod5523.htm

HOLY SHIT IFX-14 FOR $69!!! <Get this instead.


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## Oliver (Nov 25, 2007)

*7.11 cats strange behavior with ozone3d test*

Hi all,

Long time no see but i've been running my 2900xt happily at 850/1050 since some time and all is smooth.........

Any ways just downloaded 7.11 the other day and......well........they are good in 3d (05~06) in between 10 and 50 3d point better but they stink with ozone 3d.......dark donut!!!!

anybody had that behavior?????.........nothin' serious; just wondering


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## tkpenalty (Nov 25, 2007)

Oliver said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Long time no see but i've been running my 2900xt happily at 850/1050 since some time and all is smooth.........
> 
> ...



Hey welcome back!  7.11 has been a nightmare for me, it wont even install, even manually!


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## grunt_408 (Nov 25, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Craig... I wouldnt go with the zalman- we live in Australia, where its extremely humid + warm. So... you wont be getting 4Ghz easily, remember that its winter over there, and that its MUCH colder over up north in the US...
> 
> http://www.pccasegear.com/prod5523.htm
> 
> HOLY SHIT IFX-14 FOR $69!!! <Get this instead.



Hey that is a great price for that too. What fans would you put on it?
Oh and I have  7.11 Cat Fully installed with no issues at all.


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## imperialreign (Nov 25, 2007)

yeah, haven't had any problems with 7.11 with my 1950, either.  Maybe it's just the 2900s 

Honestly, I haven't seen any difference between 7.11 and 7.10 on my setup - performance is the same, graphics appear the same . . . drimer optimizations have the same effects, too.


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## Oliver (Nov 25, 2007)

*Well i'll trash the furry donut*

Ok.........it's a 2900 thing.........but i'm getting better framerates and slightly higher 3d mark scores.........i'll leave it and cross my fingers that the issue will be corrected on 7.12.

Another thing:

ATI tool seems to systematically crash (on second start the install is ok as is the initial run) with hd2900xt 512 by sapphire even though i've tested it with all the cat versions on driver only (NO ccc crap)

AmdGpu tool runs fine............


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## Wile E (Nov 26, 2007)

Hey Oliver, try running your ram at 999MHz. The timings loosen above 999, and 1050 may not be enough to make up for it. Anyway, give it a shot, may be worth a few points.


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## Oliver (Nov 26, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Hey Oliver, try running your ram at 999MHz. The timings loosen above 999, and 1050 may not be enough to make up for it. Anyway, give it a shot, may be worth a few points.



Yeah i'll try that.........


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## tkpenalty (Nov 26, 2007)

lol, tried fiddling with my card, so far I have clockspeeds of 621/796... um help? Are those good  clockspeeds eheheh... never tried overclocking my X1950PRO. Err using ATT by the way, does voltage control even work?


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## Oliver (Nov 26, 2007)

With my clocks at 850/999 I lose aprox 40points on 3d05 and 06........I guess the lossening is on th points not the mem speed


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## Wile E (Nov 27, 2007)

Oliver said:


> With my clocks at 850/999 I lose aprox 40points on 3d05 and 06........I guess the lossening is on th points not the mem speed


lol. I never got mine to 1050. I know I score more at 999 compared to 1025(ish), so 1050 must overcome the loosened timings.


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## Oliver (Nov 27, 2007)

Wile E said:


> lol. I never got mine to 1050. I know I score more at 999 compared to 1025(ish), so 1050 must overcome the loosened timings.



Must sorta work like the the chipset strap on a P5B ...........


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## sneekypeet (Nov 29, 2007)

Any chance TK that there will be a HD3K addition to this?


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## imperialreign (Nov 29, 2007)

> lol, tried fiddling with my card, so far I have clockspeeds of 621/796... um help? Are those good clockspeeds eheheh... never tried overclocking my X1950PRO. Err using ATT by the way, does voltage control even work?



never got my card higher than 614/756.  I still haven't gotten around to doing a vmod, or even seeing the info I found for my PCB style would work.

Don't really think there's much else you could do, man . . .


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## tkpenalty (Nov 29, 2007)

wheew... 100k+ Views! Eh at the moment, mitsifishi by the way guys, is trying installing the ICEQIII cooler from his X1950PRO onto his newly purchased HD3870! According to him, the X1950PRO and HD3870 (reference) BOTH have the same screw positions, VRMs, RAM modules, 







As you can see... the dimensions are virtually the same, with both cards, The HD3870's cooler looks bigger, but... its just extra plastic for looks.


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## imperialreign (Nov 29, 2007)

that's interesting right there - could prove extrmelly useful if it goes together without too much of a hitch!


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## Darknova (Nov 29, 2007)

I want a 3870 sooo badly. Hopefully I'll be ordering one tomorrow


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## mitsirfishi (Nov 29, 2007)

thanks tk for posting my cards up 





03 run 850/1300





05 run 850/1300





06 run 850/1300

still messing around with the cooling  ill keep you posted on the sapphire transformation to HIS cooling 

and keeping the cpu safe to make sure it doesnt die out on me like on some random runs


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## tkpenalty (Nov 30, 2007)

Wow... those results are crazy . 

To HIS: Bolt the ICEQ III on your HD3870's already!

Anyway, I updated the front page, now has a driver recommendation, please if you have ANY problem, even minor about it inform me. Here it is, section Z4.



> *Z4 Recommended Driver Sets*
> 
> This is a list of recommended drivers for each series, especially AGP. Note that these recommendations are based off observations from previous experiences, and clubhouse findings (meaning you don’t have to go through almost a hundred pages).
> 
> ...


----------



## Athlon2K15 (Nov 30, 2007)

my 2600xt does worse on the 7.11's than it does on the 7.10's  you should add below my name on the first page  "first to get 2600xt core to 1.05ghz!! FTW!!! "


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## mitsirfishi (Nov 30, 2007)

your joking 1ghz core sounds mad i noticed the 7.11's didnt like my 2600xt eiether


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## tkpenalty (Nov 30, 2007)

AthlonX2 said:


> my 2600xt does worse on the 7.11's than it does on the 7.10's  you should add below my name on the first page  "first to get 2600xt core to 1.05ghz!! FTW!!! "



Thanks


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## tkpenalty (Nov 30, 2007)

W00t Mitsirfishi has finished his ICEQ III HD3870! Here are pics posted on his behalf:

Apparently ONLY the cooler fits. The cooler is a bit long, so he had to resort to the single slot panel, with the cooler sticking out of the case around one to two millermetres. 





As you can see, very similar PCB design, X1950PRO ICEQIII at the top and HD3870 at the bottom




HD3870 ICEQIII!




Note he had to use zalman heatsinks; the stock memory cooler heatsink is of a different size.
So people with HD3870s, and an old X1950PRO ICEQ III Turbo, I'd try this inexpensive mod if I was you, and swap the coolers around!

Thanks to mitsirfishi!


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## mitsirfishi (Nov 30, 2007)

ive managed to get my HIS x1950pro iceq 3 cooler onto mine  just done some testing it comes out top dog  had to do some modding like take the back plate off the hd3870 and ram sinks and got some zalmans on them it on full load and full fan speed it has knocked off 6-7c off my card  use to get 47c flat out with stressing my card with 100% fan speed now i get 40-42 max  just want to get some better ramsinks but it proved worthy 




old temps use to be around 47-48 somtimes 50 with stock cooling and 100% fan 
His iceQ 3 40-42 with zalman ramsinks 

case temp was 24c on both occasions of stressing so was a fair test


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 30, 2007)

Ah I know why your card was running so cool, its winter there! Low humidity. In summer, you can expect the difference in performance to increase massively.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 30, 2007)

well, for yalls update, i bought a Sapphire X1950 Pro 512 AGP, it should be here 4 days from now, i just dont feel like RMAing the other board(HIS), i may just do it, test the board and then probably sell it off to someone who wants it on here.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 30, 2007)

any benefit of switching coolers?


tkpenalty said:


> W00t Mitsirfishi has finished his ICEQ III HD3870! Here are pics posted on his behalf:
> 
> Apparently ONLY the cooler fits. The cooler is a bit long, so he had to resort to the single slot panel, with the cooler sticking out of the case around one to two millermetres.
> 
> ...


----------



## ompak5 (Nov 30, 2007)

*Palit 2600 pro need bios!!!!*

anyone here have palit 2600 pro 256mb gddr3? i need bios for this card coz i forgot to back-up my bios when i try to flash my card to xt bios... you can send the file from my email: jonalext@yahoo.com


----------



## Widjaja (Nov 30, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> well, for yalls update, i bought a Sapphire X1950 Pro 512 AGP, it should be here 4 days from now, i just dont feel like RMAing the other board(HIS), i may just do it, test the board and then probably sell it off to someone who wants it on here.



Card can run hot but you won't be disappointed.
you can expect it to run about 40deg idle and 81 deg max load temp.


----------



## grunt_408 (Nov 30, 2007)

How does the HD3870 perform in Crossfire mode?


----------



## tkpenalty (Nov 30, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> well, for yalls update, i bought a Sapphire X1950 Pro 512 AGP, it should be here 4 days from now, i just dont feel like RMAing the other board(HIS), i may just do it, test the board and then probably sell it off to someone who wants it on here.



RMA your dead HIS, HIS AGP cards for some reason all end up dead. I think its responsible with the rialto to PCI-E connection, cause thats the only explanation if the rest of the PCB remains the same...


----------



## mitsirfishi (Dec 1, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> How does the HD3870 perform in Crossfire mode?



i get to find out next week my friend  as i get my hands on another Sapphire HD3870 so ill keep you posted shame i didnt have a x38 mobo and a qx9650 nevermind ill have to make do with the e6750


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 1, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> i get to find out next week my friend  as i get my hands on another Sapphire HD3870 so ill keep you posted shame i didnt have a x38 mobo and a qx9650 nevermind ill have to make do with the e6750



Bah, the E6750 is more than enough to show us what numbers it pumps out, stop complaining . Also the X38 isnt much of an upgrade compared to P35. One thing though, stop basing performance numbers off 3D Marks ;p use something like a game to do the telling.


----------



## mitsirfishi (Dec 1, 2007)

ill do nfs pro street,crysis, cod4 and any other suggestions aswell ? ill get the figures using fraps  and then see the conclusion if its worth spending another 135pounds


----------



## imperialreign (Dec 2, 2007)

that's quite impressive mitsir - nice way of cheaply upgrading the stock cooling on that 3870! 


update on my end - finally got hold of that other 1950PRO.  Turns out it's the same friggin card I already have, my friend thought it was a VisionTek because that's who he had to register it with   No prob, though, as total spent by me between the two cards is only about $225 at this point - $155 for mine, and $70 for my friends.  Total cost is still lower than 75% of X1950 PROs still on the market 

Anyhow, xFire works great!  Due to the i975X chipset limitations, both cards are reduced to x8 mode instead of x16 - still no biggy, though.  Can't seem to do any overclocking in xFire mode, so both cards *appear* to be running at 575/695. 3m06 bench before xFire with everything set to standard was 4356, with xFire and same configuration 6132.  I can prob still get more out of it through tweaking and all, but I'm a bit eager to see how well some games will play now, and how high I can set the eye candy   First up: Crysis.

Anyhow, this P4 is still holding things up a bit - but I've managed a decent overall performance increase for fairly cheap, so I'm happy with that.  BTW, tk, you can update my hardware on the front page should you so choose.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 2, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> Card can run hot but you won't be disappointed.
> you can expect it to run about 40deg idle and 81 deg max load temp.



as long as it remains stable i dont care, the HIS started getting graphical corruption in games (stretched textures, discolored textures, some pixelation)


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 2, 2007)

mitsirfishi said:


> ill do nfs pro street,crysis, cod4 and any other suggestions aswell ? ill get the figures using fraps  and then see the conclusion if its worth spending another 135pounds



Hey was there a benefit of swapping coolers?


----------



## DOM (Dec 2, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> Hey was there a benefit of swapping coolers?



post # 2477


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## tkpenalty (Dec 3, 2007)

do i have to keep kicking the thread...?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 3, 2007)

i guess so tk, anyways i have the 1950 Pro from sapphire on the way just gotta pick it up at the post office, My Machine works perfectly again (stock bios 20041124) no instability, now i hope the 1950 pro ups the performance for other games.


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## Widjaja (Dec 3, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> as long as it remains stable i dont care



Er
Thats why I said you won't be disappointed.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 3, 2007)

Now, lets review some of the facts, I call sapphire a high tier manufacturer for many reasons, and others such as HIS and powercolor as mid tier. This is my reasoning, basically Sapphire have the best manufacturing equipment/quality testing overall, and their warranty is similar to EVGA's warranty. Of course, the sapphire cards will be stable eidairaman1, the HIS dying on you seems to have somewhat traumatised you , sapphire tests their card designs, until they die (as mentioned in a TPU article, a fortnight of endless 3D Marks at 90*C ambient, etc), i highly doubt that most other GPU mfgr's do it to that extent. 

The sapphire will run toasty, and sorta loud but it will be stable.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 3, 2007)

Loud doesnt bother me, beyond that i can always slap on a better cooler if need be, but does this card have a bridge chip aswell?


tkpenalty said:


> Now, lets review some of the facts, I call sapphire a high tier manufacturer for many reasons, and others such as HIS and powercolor as mid tier. This is my reasoning, basically Sapphire have the best manufacturing equipment/quality testing overall, and their warranty is similar to EVGA's warranty. Of course, the sapphire cards will be stable eidairaman1, the HIS dying on you seems to have somewhat traumatised you , sapphire tests their card designs, until they die (as mentioned in a TPU article, a fortnight of endless 3D Marks at 90*C ambient, etc), i highly doubt that most other GPU mfgr's do it to that extent.
> 
> The sapphire will run toasty, and sorta loud but it will be stable.


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 3, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> Loud doesnt bother me, beyond that i can always slap on a better cooler if need be, but does this card have a bridge chip aswell?



Yes it has the Rialto PCI-E to AGP bridge chip.
The Accelero X2 with VRM heatplate will do the trick uless you get a later revision with the heatsink.

Here's a excellent documentation on the installation and the difference in temps before and after using the accelero X2.
http://www.ricklafay.com/Computers/accelero_x2 install.htm


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 3, 2007)

heatspreader!? why not a heatsink, heatsinks do a better job of cooling than heatspreaders, beyond that, having to modify the cooler is stupid IMO, i guess AC has lost quality, because the VGA Silencer 3 worked flawless on the ATI  Radeon 9700/9800 Pro. I dunno i may just modify the stock cooler somewhat (change the TIM for the VPU and Ram (AS5 or Akasa Shinetsu)
Question is does the bridge have a heatsink on it or not?


Widjaja said:


> Yes it has the Rialto PCI-E to AGP bridge chip.
> The Accelero X2 with VRM heatplate will do the trick uless you get a later revision with the heatsink.
> 
> Here's a excellent documentation on the installation and the difference in temps before and after using the accelero X2.
> http://www.ricklafay.com/Computers/accelero_x2 install.htm


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 3, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> heatspreader!? why not a heatsink, heatsinks do a better job of cooling than heatspreaders.
> Question is does the bridge have a heatsink on it or not?



Yeah I don't like the looks of the heatspreader.
I remember seeing later Sapphire X1950pro AGP revisions coming out with a separate aluminium heat sink for the VRMs so the Accelero heatplate is not needed.

As for the bridge chip.
It uses the standard pink sticky pad to disperse heat.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 3, 2007)

well ill be looking at other companies coolers, seems that zerotherm, thermalright, and i guess zalman have best coolers out. Who knows i may slightly modify the stock heatsink


Widjaja said:


> Yeah I don't like the looks of the heatspreader.
> I remember seeing later Sapphire X1950pro AGP revisions coming out with a separate aluminium heat sink for the VRMs so the Accelero heatplate is not needed.
> 
> As for the bridge chip.
> It uses the standard pink sticky pad to disperse heat.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 4, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> heatspreader!? why not a heatsink, heatsinks do a better job of cooling than heatspreaders, beyond that, having to modify the cooler is stupid IMO, i guess AC has lost quality, because the VGA Silencer 3 worked flawless on the ATI  Radeon 9700/9800 Pro. I dunno i may just modify the stock cooler somewhat (change the TIM for the VPU and Ram (AS5 or Akasa Shinetsu)
> Question is does the bridge have a heatsink on it or not?



The heatspreader is more than enough to cool it and one thing before you blow a blood vessel; A heatspreader is technically the exact same thing as a heatsink. There is no problem with using the heatplate, it removes heat from the source of it; and that was what it does, successfully.

The stock cooling solution is enough, not like you will be able to get much out of it from overclocking. Changing the thermal tape on the memsinks is plainly stupid... reason? Its tape! You wont be able to uninstall the cooler (waste of money too).

Anyway, I'd buy a VF900CU, and probably buy another pack of heatsinks from zalman, one to cool the bridge, and the rest... well... too cool something like the MOFSETs on your motherboard or, even your sound card's chipset.. (thats if it has any hot running ICs). Its not needed anyway, unless for a reason like silence, for that, I would look at a VF700ALCU/CU, to save you some money, as the X1950PRO wont overclock much, regardless of the cooling used on it.

EDIT: _2500th post, i might want to archive this thread and start a new one... its getting HUGE._


----------



## Darknova (Dec 4, 2007)

Well next friday I will hopefully be ordering a 3870....just a shame that no where in the UK has them in stock at the moment


----------



## rick22 (Dec 5, 2007)




----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 5, 2007)

rick22 said:


>



And what might that post be?


----------



## Athlon2K15 (Dec 5, 2007)

hey TK what do you think of this for a 2600XT?

View attachment 10960


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 5, 2007)

AthlonX2 said:


> hey TK what do you think of this for a 2600XT?
> 
> View attachment 10960



*Drinking water, looks around nothing out of the-CHOKES ON WATER*

Nice man, 1Ghz core clock. What numbers do you get out of the card at that speed anyway? 

I might want to fix up the statements on the first page =.= HD2600XT is now considered as a low-mid end card thats geared for Value gamers right?


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 5, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> *Drinking water, looks around nothing out of the-CHOKES ON WATER*
> 
> Nice man, 1Ghz core clock. What numbers do you get out of the card at that speed anyway?
> 
> I might want to fix up the statements on the first page =.= HD2600XT is now considered as a low-mid end card thats geared for Value gamers right?



Whats considered mid-range now?
What is the X1950pro 512mb considered as now?


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 5, 2007)

Yeah the X1950PRO is a midrange card at the moment, well considering its absurdly low price at the moment (priced around $20 more than a HD2600XT), I would make a beeline for the X1950PRO for value systems that are like around $700. The HD2600XT, well if you honestly cannot stretch your budget, you can get that. But, personally, I would never build a system with a HD2600XT installed in it due to several reasons. 

Anyway, cards which I would use in building systems for people

HD2400PRO - low end HTPC
X1950PRO - Mid end "High end" to average person's expectations
HD3850 
HD3870 
8800GT


----------



## Athlon2K15 (Dec 5, 2007)

took 3 wks going through the data sheets and searching the net to find a voltmod for it,but ive had it upto 1.7v on the core default is 1.25v anyways numbers..well just over 5800 in 06 and 11,800 in 05


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## tkpenalty (Dec 5, 2007)

AthlonX2 said:


> took 3 wks going through the data sheets and searching the net to find a voltmod for it,but ive had it upto 1.7v on the core default is 1.25v anyways numbers..well just over 5800 in 06 and 11,800 in 05



Those are quite impressive numbers. How about in real gaming? I'm interested to see how the card does, overclocked like that.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 5, 2007)

So i guess you tried but to a fail?


tkpenalty said:


> The heatspreader is more than enough to cool it and one thing before you blow a blood vessel; A heatspreader is technically the exact same thing as a heatsink. There is no problem with using the heatplate, it removes heat from the source of it; and that was what it does, successfully.
> 
> The stock cooling solution is enough, not like you will be able to get much out of it from overclocking. Changing the thermal tape on the memsinks is plainly stupid... reason? Its tape! You wont be able to uninstall the cooler (waste of money too).
> 
> ...


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 5, 2007)

Huh? The VRM plate works fine.


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 5, 2007)

I detect a chip on a shoulder.


----------



## hat (Dec 5, 2007)

I detect hax. Nice work on that card, man.


----------



## Athlon2K15 (Dec 5, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Those are quite impressive numbers. How about in real gaming? I'm interested to see how the card does, overclocked like that.



any games you have in mind? i run crysis dx10 @ 1680 x 1050 around 25-30fps on medium,in high i run about 20fps and very high is out of the question.


----------



## imperialreign (Dec 5, 2007)

that is sweet, man.



> Yeah the X1950PRO is a midrange card at the moment, well considering its absurdly low price at the moment (priced around $20 more than a HD2600XT), I would make a beeline for the X1950PRO for value systems that are like around $700. The HD2600XT, well if you honestly cannot stretch your budget, you can get that. But, personally, I would never build a system with a HD2600XT installed in it due to several reasons.



Right now, I've been seeing straight mid-range X1950 PROs running right around $160 or so.  ATI and VisionTek brand keep tossing in a $50 mail-in rebate to go with it, so $110 for a decent card like what I've got.

Everyone seems to be acting like the X1950's are obsolete, though . . . no one is carrying them in-store anymore around here (but they've got the X1050, X1300, X1500, etc), and the prices on the 1950s are dropping quicker than standards in the US Senate.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 6, 2007)

go to google.com and look for them, better yet check out allpcdeals.com thats where i got mine from, picked the 2 day shipping, got to me as advertised, works perfect


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 6, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> Everyone seems to be acting like the X1950's are obsolete, though . . . no one is carrying them in-store anymore around here (but they've got the X1050, X1300, X1500, etc), and the prices on the 1950s are dropping quicker than standards in the US Senate.



This is what I'm talking about, which was making wonder what is the mid-range card today?
I think people maybe thinking they are oblselete because of the price?

I have to admit there were issues when they first came out as there was sthe whole PSU dilemma.

If I'm able to play DiRT & Bioshock on high and enjoy the games, it says to me this is a good card.

Still X1950pro ftw bar HIS AGP model.


----------



## imperialreign (Dec 6, 2007)

I agree!  IMO, it'll be a long time before the X1900 series is considered obsolete or "bargain bin" . . . I guess it has more to do with reatailer's choice here . . . last week the X1950PRO/XT models were ATI's mid-high end cards, yesterday it was the 2900XTs and today it's the HD3870 (still haven't seem them on the shelf yet, though).  

I guess they figure someone willing to spend $150 for a 1900 series might be more apt to spend the extra $70 on a 2000 or 3000 series card instead, so why even offer the 1900s, right? 

The real bargain shoppers are the ones doing a grand job of keeping the 1050s, 1300s and 1650s on the shelf.  Hell, the Circuit City stores around here still have some 9700s on the shelf :shadedshu


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 6, 2007)

In my township I have only seen one 9600pro and a couple of 8600's on the shelves.
Asking them to bring in anything else higher-end is like trying to tell them to do backflips.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 6, 2007)

The X1950PRO can EASILY play Need for Speed PRO STREET at max settings at decent resolutions. I don't understand why cards that perform much worse at the same price are being sold!


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 6, 2007)

AthlonX2 said:


> any games you have in mind? i run crysis dx10 @ 1680 x 1050 around 25-30fps on medium,in high i run about 20fps and very high is out of the question.



Very nice figures I guess, I'm guessing stock, at those settings is unplayable, am I correct?


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 6, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> The X1950PRO can EASILY play Need for Speed PRO STREET at max settings at decent resolutions. I don't understand why cards that perform much worse at the same price are being sold!



Because those poorer cards were released later.
It's just like Jap cars I suppose.

example Nissan 200SX from 95' performs much better than a 98' Micra but because of the age they are cheaper.

Cards also usually devaluate like Jap cars too come to think of it.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 6, 2007)

Aint nothing worse than paying for a car and a couple years later selling it for a third of what was paid. GGRRR Reality bites hard.
And My Thermalright IFX-14 Heatsink is on the way along with two 120mm Neon fans to cool it off. I will post pics once fitted.


----------



## imperialreign (Dec 6, 2007)

> The X1950PRO can EASILY play Need for Speed PRO STREET at max settings at decent resolutions. I don't understand why cards that perform much worse at the same price are being sold!



the draw of newer hardware, maybe?

I mean - ATI couldn't possibly be phasing out the 1900 series like they've mostly done with the X1800s . . . but with AMD behind the reins, it's hard to tell, really . . .

They might be trying to cut the supply back so that it won't be a price competitor for the newer 2000 series cards.  TBH, that seems more likely . . .



*edit>  I had a xFire question . . . I'm running two exactly identical cards.  Is there any way to OC them in xFire mode?  They seems to default back to their stock settings of 575/695 in xFire, but I can't seem to get ATT or ATiTool to be able to change the clock speeds at all.  Any changes to either GPU or MEM result in losing the display entirelly, and usually VPU Recover can't even pick it back up . . . I end up having to reset the system.

I was thinking maybe uping the base clocks through a BIOS reflash of both cards to something that I know is stable, but I don't feel like going through that hassel if it might not work.


----------



## Wile E (Dec 7, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> the draw of newer hardware, maybe?
> 
> I mean - ATI couldn't possibly be phasing out the 1900 series like they've mostly done with the X1800s . . . but with AMD behind the reins, it's hard to tell, really . . .
> 
> ...


Actually, the BIOS mod is the best way. Dump your stock BIOS, and mod it with RaBiT.

If you don't want to do a BIOS mod, look in the ATI Tool .27b3 thread. At the top of one of the pages, somebody gives an explanation on how to get ATI Tool to do it, but it's a little convoluted. The BIOS mod is probably easier to deal with.


----------



## imperialreign (Dec 7, 2007)

> Actually, the BIOS mod is the best way. Dump your stock BIOS, and mod it with RaBiT.
> 
> If you don't want to do a BIOS mod, look in the ATI Tool .27b3 thread. At the top of one of the pages, somebody gives an explanation on how to get ATI Tool to do it, but it's a little convoluted. The BIOS mod is probably easier to deal with.



I'll dig up that ATiTool workaround, see just what all is involved . . . but, I'll prob just go ahead with the BIOS flash.  It'd prob be the easiest for me anyhow.  I just wasn't sure if it would work, or if the BIOS has a different clock listing for xFire mode that would supercede any singular GPU clock settings.


----------



## SSXeon (Dec 8, 2007)

Shouldnt u rename this thread to X1k~HD3k


----------



## hat (Dec 8, 2007)

it really should be "the ATi Clubhouse"


----------



## SSXeon (Dec 8, 2007)

True.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 8, 2007)

hat said:


> it really should be "the ATi Clubhouse"



Negative, I am not supporting all the ATI products.


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 8, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Negative, I am not supporting all the ATI products.



I understand where your'e coming from.
Just imagine how big this thread would be.


----------



## imperialreign (Dec 8, 2007)

How about . . . "non-legacy ATI clubhouse"


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 8, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> How about . . . "non-legacy ATI clubhouse"



What is that supposed to mean? Non-legacy, what are you talking about? You mean famous cards, well, non-legacy would exclude the Legacy X1950PRO... But no, I won't change the name of the clubhouse at all.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 8, 2007)

well it appears i have hit hard times, as i dont think my powersupply can provide enough juice over 2 Molex lines for Sapphire 1950 Pro (Having Prepost Reboot Loop) Also games wont load, the machine was fine a few days ago but i noticed the Fan speed increased during a boot, so i thought of using 2 molex instead of the single molex with splitter. After that i had Reboot Issues (above) So i tried 2 molex lines, same problem, not sure what it is but i feel like just getting a NF3 Motherboard and a X2 CPU and calling it quits on this one. Any ideas of what maybe causing the problem?


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 8, 2007)

Odd I'm pretty sure TK recommended the PSU you currently use.
Do you mean your PC was working fine before you installed the X1950pro?

What else is running off the lines going to your card?

In my case the first line goes straight to the GPU with nothing else attached, the second line going to the GPU is also powering a 80GB IDE HDD.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 8, 2007)

it was a direct attach without anything else sharing the line with the graphics card, now im really thinking the graphics card did take a dive, because i setup a old motherboard with same chipset, and same rated power supply with just the basics and it fails to boot up after a OS restart, so im thinking either graphics card or ram. I dont know im really getting geared to just sell off everything and start from scratch, but do a RMA and just sell the cards.


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 8, 2007)

So you attached it to one line of the PSU via the molex Y-Splitter?
I did the same with my old 450W Generic powering only 15a off the +12V rail and it worked no troubles.
I think you were sold a dud IMO.
I know yours isn't the first story, just go to Sapphire forums.
I just thought thier cards wouldn't do this anymore.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 8, 2007)

im just tired of RMA's


----------



## imperialreign (Dec 8, 2007)

> What is that supposed to mean? Non-legacy, what are you talking about? You mean famous cards, well, non-legacy would exclude the Legacy X1950PRO... But no, I won't change the name of the clubhouse at all.



legacy as in: no longer supported by ATI themselves.

besides, I was jut kidding about changing the name of the thread


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 8, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> im just tired of RMA's



lol... you are suffering from very bad luck here. I remember one guy on the forum had even worse luck how every part of his system was failing, replaced RAM, GPU died, replaced GPU, mobo died, replaced mobo the RAM died again, and GPU as well, etc.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 9, 2007)

The only thing that seems to be reliable is the 9800 Pro and the rest of the system, just the video cards are being crap, despite me taking ESD precautions, and also keeping the machine clean and cool, I heard that Sapphire has had some poor QA on the 1950s, but youd think those problem boards would have already been bought up.


tkpenalty said:


> lol... you are suffering from very bad luck here. I remember one guy on the forum had even worse luck how every part of his system was failing, replaced RAM, GPU died, replaced GPU, mobo died, replaced mobo the RAM died again, and GPU as well, etc.


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 10, 2007)

*Powercolor - X1950PRO*

I have a Powercolor - X1950PRO which uses the reference X1950GT PCB (solid state capacitors) instead of the standard reference X1950PRO PCB (VRM and PWM chips).  

Although the card is suppose clocked to run with a core speed of 575 MHz and a memory clock speed of 600 MHz when I looked at my card I discovered that it uses Samsung K4J55323QG-BC14 memory chips which Samsung rates for use at 700 MHz.

Now I know that I can crank the memory clock speed up to 700 MHz without damaging the memory itself but I was wonder if the PCB board is rated to run at that speed or if I would end up frying it.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 10, 2007)

pmcalduff said:


> I have a Powercolor - X1950PRO which uses the reference X1950GT PCB (solid state capacitors) instead of the standard reference X1950PRO PCB (VRM and PWM chips).
> 
> Although the card is suppose clocked to run with a core speed of 575 MHz and a memory clock speed of 600 MHz when I looked at my card I discovered that it uses Samsung K4J55323QG-BC14 memory chips which Samsung rates for use at 700 MHz.
> 
> Now I know that I can crank the memory clock speed up to 700 MHz without damaging the memory itself but I was wonder if the PCB board is rated to run at that speed or if I would end up frying it.



Use ati tray tools (google it), and have a see. That memory should easily do 700mhz, some reason, powercolor sometimes rebadges its X1950GTs as X1950PROs. The stock cooling as well, please get that replaced... that stock cooler that you get on the Powercolor X1950GT is terribly designed! Something, such as a VF900CU or even a VF700CU would be a massive upgrade in contrast. I'd expect you'd need the memory to be cooled in order to be able for the memory to be clocked at 700mhz however. The memory can do it, but it may run a bit too warm for comfort. 

In all, the memory will run at 700mhz without a problem, just watch out for how hot the ICs get though.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 10, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> The only thing that seems to be reliable is the 9800 Pro and the rest of the system, just the video cards are being crap, despite me taking ESD precautions, and also keeping the machine clean and cool, I heard that Sapphire has had some poor QA on the 1950s, but youd think those problem boards would have already been bought up.



I'd say you are just having horrible luck. Look, i have had 0 luck with my 9800PRO so dont go its so reliable!  (Joking, the burner caused my system to stuff up).


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 10, 2007)

so how is powercolors board? or is it PCI express for you?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 10, 2007)

well i gotta see what allpcdeals.com has to say about the dead item, see if they will replace it since its under their 30 day return policy, i also emailed sapphire about a replacement, honestly id rather go thru sapphire for the replacement than allpcdeals due to fact that i could get a defective part again from them and sapphire seems to have ironed out majority of the problems with a revision of the boards


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 10, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Use ati tray tools (google it), and have a see. That memory should easily do 700mhz, some reason, powercolor sometimes rebadges its X1950GTs as X1950PROs. The stock cooling as well, please get that replaced... that stock cooler that you get on the Powercolor X1950GT is terribly designed! Something, such as a VF900CU or even a VF700CU would be a massive upgrade in contrast. I'd expect you'd need the memory to be cooled in order to be able for the memory to be clocked at 700mhz however. The memory can do it, but it may run a bit too warm for comfort.
> 
> In all, the memory will run at 700mhz without a problem, just watch out for how hot the ICs get though.



I have ATITool and have already used it to give my card a modest 3% overclock.  

I replaced the stock cooler with the Zalman VF900CU about a month ago.  I couldn’t stand the noise the original cooler put out.  It gave off a high pitched hum that I could hear from anywhere in my house.

By the way the VF900CU came with memory heatsinks and the fan blows air down across them so I’m not really worried about the memory.  My real concern is whether or not the PCB board can take it.


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 10, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> so how is powercolors board? or is it PCI express for you?



My Powercolor X1950PRO 256 is a PCI express card.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 11, 2007)

well i got a reply from both companies, but i think i will take my chances with Sapphire for the new board, their policy seems to be alot quicker on replacing boards using the RMA form, i should be able to get the board out the door by the end of the week then also get a new one by new years (its christmas time afterall)


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 11, 2007)

I heard the RMA is good with Sapphire.
No messing about.

Hopefully this card will work.
It will be gutting if it doesn't being around Christmas and no doubt you will most probably have new PC games as presents.


----------



## mitsirfishi (Dec 11, 2007)

yes sapphire are normally one of the better companies for rma's good luck  ive had so much hardware go bang its unreal


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 12, 2007)

I must say wow, i am impressed, they sent me a RMA number, well i gotta get the card packed up ready to go after i print out some documentation, i should have a new card in a few weeks.


----------



## -1nf1n1ty- (Dec 12, 2007)

Quick question: I know that the 8800GTX and the 2900XT are sorta on par with each other, 8800GTX beating it in most tests but usually not by much, But I saw some reviews and benches on the 8800GT 's are these better then the 2900XT?Don't want to get ripped off for buying a 2900XT especially after seeing the benches between GTX and XT


----------



## erocker (Dec 12, 2007)

Well if you look at any world records there's usually 2900XT's involved.  But for the casual overclocker I don't think there's much beating the GTX/Ultra's right now.  Especially in memroy size and bandwith.


----------



## -1nf1n1ty- (Dec 12, 2007)

erocker said:


> Well if you look at any world records there's usually 2900XT's involved.  But for the casual overclocker I don't think there's much beating the GTX/Ultra's right now.  Especially in memroy size and bandwith.



KK thanks for that


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 12, 2007)

Hey i thought this was a X-3000 Club, not a discussion of Apples vs Oranges, please keep on topic here


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 12, 2007)

X-3000?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 12, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> X-3000?



Cough X series boards then the 3000 Line


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 12, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> Hey i thought this was a X-3000 Club, not a discussion of Apples vs Oranges, please keep on topic here



Sorry if you are mistaken, but i am absolutely neutral about GPUs. The Clubhouse is to help members, and not a fanclub at all. Yes it may seem like it but it isnt. I would happily extend support to the nvidia 8 series, but however I don't have the bother to do it at all at the moment. 

It is on topic to neutrally say that the 8 Series > HD2k series in performance, then insert your reason why the HD2k series is better overall, due to value, etcetra. Its up to the people to purchase whatever they want guys. Not all products from both sides are perfect, they have their shortcomings and merits. Lets see, remember me bashing the HD2600XT on the front page? 

Now, I think I've made myself clear. I'm just putting my effort into supporting you guys, helping TPU users with their GPUs. Theres one thing that I dont tolerate at all, extreme aggressive fanboism that turns into flamewars, thats on both sides.


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 12, 2007)

pmcalduff said:


> I have a Powercolor - X1950PRO which uses the reference X1950GT PCB (solid state capacitors) instead of the standard reference X1950PRO PCB (VRM and PWM chips).
> 
> Although the card is suppose clocked to run with a core speed of 575 MHz and a memory clock speed of 600 MHz when I looked at my card I discovered that it uses Samsung K4J55323QG-BC14 memory chips which Samsung rates for use at 700 MHz.
> 
> Now I know that I can crank the memory clock speed up to 700 MHz without damaging the memory itself but I was wonder if the PCB board is rated to run at that speed or if I would end up frying it.



In case anyone is interested I managed to crank my card up to a core speed of 594 MHz and a memory clock speed of 695 MHz.  After that I ran ATITool's "Scan for Artifacts" for three hours and came up with zero errors.  

Thanks for the advice.


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 12, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> Cough X series boards then the 3000 Line



With your kind of abrasive attitude I won't be surprised if your RMA'd X1950pro shites itself.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 12, 2007)

sorry if my attitude is abrasive but its the way i am, perhaps you need to toughen up a little,


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 12, 2007)

LOL!
Right. . . . .
As long as they are behind the computer screen and miles away from the other person they have the balls to say anything.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 12, 2007)

Drink a glass of concrete and harden the fu@k up!!!
Widjaja that made my day mate until now my day has been chit and nothing has made me smile


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 12, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> LOL!
> Right. . . . .



Glad we are back on track and on the same Page

LMAO!


----------



## Duffman (Dec 13, 2007)

I just found this forum.  Very cool resource.  I plan on visiting here alot.  I'm looking into getting a second 2900 for xfire.  I've got my eye on a couple on ebay.  I'm also wondering which cooler would be recommended.  I will have to ditch my thermalright for xfire.  it won't fit in the top slot due to interference with my Northbridge cooler.  I've been thinking Zalman VF700 as my buddy is using one on his 8800GT with no problems.  He's moved them from a 7900 to an 8600 and now on his 8800.

Here is my rig and my Sapphire 2900pro with Thermalright cooler:

rig open up, shortly after assembly






removable mb tray showing off the GPU and coolers





close up of the card.  this was in my old case





Full specs:
Silverstone TJ09 Aluminum case
Abit IP35Pro MB
E6850 Processor
Roswill RCX-Z775-EX Cooler
2GB Corsair XMS2 ram (will go to 4 eventually)
Sapphire 2900pro with Thermalright cooler (for now)
Antec Truepower 1000
Asus 20x DVD w/lightscribe
Scythe Kama Bay 120mm front fan
Two Samsung Spinpoint T series 500GB HD's in Raid0
One WD 160GB
Zalman 120mm Red LED fans all around for case cooling


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 13, 2007)

Myself I'd recommend Zalman's VF900CU.  It works better than the VF700 without taking up more space.

By the way that Thermalright cooler is an absolute monster.


----------



## Duffman (Dec 13, 2007)

Yeah, it is.  That's the reason i need to look into other coolers.  I can't run two of them with my motherboard.  They work absolutely wonderful, they're just so....big.


----------



## Wile E (Dec 13, 2007)

Why not go water?


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 13, 2007)

Modern heatpipe coolers are almost as effective and quiet as water cooling.  They also have the added bonus of being much much cheaper.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 13, 2007)

well if it comes down to losing slots vs maximum cooling, id rather have the slots, Waterblocks take up less space than OtT Heatsinks, now the problem with the HR 03 wouldnt be there if the cooler was installed the other way. Beyond that Heat Rises, so that would technically be the better design, exhaust heat from the heatsink.


----------



## Wile E (Dec 13, 2007)

pmcalduff said:


> Modern heatpipe coolers are almost as effective and quiet as water cooling.  They also have the added bonus of being much much cheaper.



 Yeah, cheaper indeed. lol.

but not as good as a proper water setup.


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 13, 2007)

Swiftech H2O-120 Compact and Corsair Nautilus 500: Is Water Better?

The Bottom Line

The next time a computer friend tells you water cooling performs better or is quieter than air cooling, tell him his information is out of date. Air coolers have evolved to the point where a top $50 to $75 air cooler will normally outperform a water cooling kit at $300 or below. The best air coolers are much cheaper, easier to install, lower in noise, and provide better overclocking results than water cooling kits that are up to six times more expensive.

http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.aspx?i=3097


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 13, 2007)

only reason Aircooling has become popular is due to price, a waterblock still wins out by taking up less space than a heatsink. Also Heatsinks of larger size tend to be harder to install than waterblocks.


----------



## Wile E (Dec 13, 2007)

pmcalduff said:


> Swiftech H2O-120 Compact and Corsair Nautilus 500: Is Water Better?
> 
> The Bottom Line
> 
> ...


lol. You are comparing low to mid water to  high end air. Throw a 2 or 3x120mm rad in there, and air stands no chance. $300 buys me a water setup that no air cooler can touch, period. Common sense dictates this. Try cooling a 226w TEC with an air cooler and see what happens. Not gonna happen, but my 3x120mm rad does it easily. This comes from experience, not some review on a website.


----------



## Duffman (Dec 13, 2007)

Price is what it boils down to for me.  At the moment.  The HR03 can be mounted on top of the card which is a really neat feature.  Problem is, that my northbridge heatsinc gets in the way.  i might be able to mount it that way sans fan, but it looses too much cooling ability that way.

I am looking at the VF900 also, mainly because the $20 version of the 700 isn't available on newegg right now.  I'm still not sure what the difference is between that one and the $26 version.  They're both the ALCU versions too.  The CU version is $29 and then the 900 is only $3 more than that.


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 13, 2007)

Wile E said:


> lol. You are comparing low to mid water to high end air.



You got me there.  The water coolers reviewed were definitely not top of the line.  However, even those low to mid water coolers are triple the cost of the high end air coolers.


----------



## mitsirfishi (Dec 13, 2007)

its a simple and cost effect product works a fair greater than the stock heatsinks and cant argue at the value of the freezer 64 or the 7


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 14, 2007)

Speaking of coolers but a little off topic from GPU's I recieved my Thermalright IFX-14 today and will be installing it later. I will post some pics of It once fitted.


----------



## Duffman (Dec 14, 2007)

that cooler is tight.  I was very impressed with the thermalright quality.  

Back on the GPU subject, I just won myself an ATI 2900XT on ebay.  Crossfire, here I come!

Also, the $20 VF700's are back in stock at Newegg, so i'm going to go with them.  The price/performance difference isn't justifiable to go with the 900 over them.


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 14, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Speaking of coolers but a little off topic from GPU's I recieved my Thermalright IFX-14 today and will be installing it later. I will post some pics of It once fitted.



Yeah would like to see it after installed.
Wonder how the backside heatsink clips on.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 14, 2007)

question for yall, the AGP Sapphire X1950 Pro, does it use the 5V leads of the Molex Lines or does it just use the 12V Lead? I was thinking about getting a PCI e to Molex Adapter for that purpose, to see if that makes any difference in power. I assume the PCI express 1950 from sapphire uses the PCI express power instead.


----------



## mitsirfishi (Dec 14, 2007)

it will be the 12v molex i cant see it using anything else really like the old floppy connectors like on one of my 9800se's


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 14, 2007)

i never said anything about Floppy lines, what i was getting at is does the card utilize all the leads in the molex or just the 12V leads? Cause i was thinking maybe PCI Express Leads have more Amperage that can be used


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 14, 2007)

I assume the Sapphire X1950pro AGP model has 2 Molex for the card to run off two separate lines and the Y-splitter is used if the card had taken up one too many molex connections, it just wouldn't make any sense to have two molex connections on the card.

The 2x4-pin Molex connections on the Sapphire X1950pro AGP always made me think why?
They should have just used a PCI-E connection.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 14, 2007)

I agree, cause if the 5V section of the Molex isnt used why not just have PCI express, beyond that PCI Express Lines tend to have more Amperage if im not mistaken, but if i could find out more info on this board, i could probably use this adapter with 2 PCI express lines unless if there is a Splitter Unit of the same type http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=21141



Widjaja said:


> I assume the Sapphire X1950pro AGP model has 2 Molex for the card to run off two separate lines and the Y-splitter is used if the card had taken up one too many molex connections, it just wouldn't make any sense to have two molex connections on the card.
> 
> The 2x4-pin Molex connections on the Sapphire X1950pro AGP always made me think why?
> They should have just used a PCI-E connection.


----------



## Wile E (Dec 14, 2007)

pmcalduff said:


> You got me there.  The water coolers reviewed were definitely not top of the line.  However, even those low to mid water coolers are triple the cost of the high end air coolers.



And you definitely got me there. lol. My setup, once 100% completed (need to add a gpu block), will cost about $350 total. But then again, I'm cooling 3 items (cpu, gpu, chipset), and better than air can manage. Cooling to price ratios are generally better on air, but the overall results can be better on a good water setup.

I like having water. It allows me to push further, but it does come at a cost. I'll be making another foray into TEC at some point as well.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 14, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> I agree, cause if the 5V section of the Molex isnt used why not just have PCI express, beyond that PCI Express Lines tend to have more Amperage if im not mistaken, but if i could find out more info on this board, i could probably use this adapter with 2 PCI express lines unless if there is a Splitter Unit of the same type http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=21141



Not to mention more safety pins in the PCI-E Plugs, I dont understand why sapphire had to do that, seriously. Even a low end PSU these days ALWAYS has a PCI-E 6 Pin connector, regardless of Wattage, Manufacturer, and Quality. I've seen some Generic 400W with a 6 Pin, even though it wouldnt be able to handle any card.


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 14, 2007)

@eidairaman1
I have been to that site aswell since I do have a PSU with PCI-E connections.
But I haven't heard of anyone using the adaptor.

Were Sapphire the only maker to use this config?
I don't think there are any other GPUs out there which use 2x4-pin molex connectors.


----------



## Wile E (Dec 14, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> @eidairaman1
> I have been to that site aswell since I do have a PSU with PCI-E connections.
> But I haven't heard of anyone using the adaptor.
> 
> ...



I've seen some cards with fdd connectors.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 14, 2007)

How is that TK?
The other advantage of that, not as much to clean up as of Dust.


Wile E said:


> And you definitely got me there. lol. My setup, once 100% completed (need to add a gpu block), will cost about $350 total. But then again, I'm cooling 3 items (cpu, gpu, chipset), and better than air can manage. Cooling to price ratios are generally better on air, but the overall results can be better on a good water setup.
> 
> I like having water. It allows me to push further, but it does come at a cost. I'll be making another foray into TEC at some point as well.





tkpenalty said:


> Not to mention more safety pins in the PCI-E Plugs, I dont understand why sapphire had to do that, seriously. Even a low end PSU these days ALWAYS has a PCI-E 6 Pin connector, regardless of Wattage, Manufacturer, and Quality. I've seen some Generic 400W with a 6 Pin, even though it wouldnt be able to handle any card.





Wile E said:


> I've seen some cards with fdd connectors.



The last card that i seen to use the FDD connector was the R300 AGP line- excluding the PCI Express to AGP parts.

Diamond is the other maker that was using them. Hmm i wonder if the 1950GT AGP uses the same connection


Widjaja said:


> @eidairaman1
> I have been to that site aswell since I do have a PSU with PCI-E connections.
> But I haven't heard of anyone using the adaptor.
> 
> ...



well if any of yall can help me out on this, i greatly appreciate it, i gotta make sure this machine lasts until i build the 790FX with 3850 512, and BE 5000 Late Q1 early Q2 of 2008


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 14, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> The last card that i seen to use the FDD connector was the R300 AGP line- excluding the PCI Express to AGP parts.



Dont double post please. Anyway, I'll ask, who wants me to start a new thread? I have to say, its getting really big, and I'd like to have a fresh start for this thread. Vote now.


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 14, 2007)

I think you need to get all the important info from this thread and compile into a locked thread which only you have access to up date and start a new thread for Q & A.

Just have a link at the start if either thread so users can just click on the links to jump from either thread.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 14, 2007)

Ugh, browse through 100 pages, and extract info... wheeee...... hahah .. ill try.


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 14, 2007)

Wile E said:


> I like having water. It allows me to push further, but it does come at a cost. I'll be making another foray into TEC at some point as well.



What TEC are you thinking of using.  From what I’ve heard the 226w TECs aren’t powerful enough for today’s processors.  Of course I could be wrong about this.  I’ve never used a TEC myself.


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 14, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Ugh, browse through 100 pages, and extract info... wheeee...... hahah .. ill try.



You love it.


----------



## Wile E (Dec 14, 2007)

pmcalduff said:


> What TEC are you thinking of using.  From what I’ve heard the 226w TECs aren’t powerful enough for today’s processors.  Of course I could be wrong about this.  I’ve never used a TEC myself.


I had a 226W TEC (see link #1 in sig. lol.). It easily kept up with d44ve's (person on this forum I purchased it from) E6600 at 1.7V. I believe his load temps were around 20C at that voltage. Not phase by any means, but still damn good.

But anyway, I was thinking more along the lines of TECing my gpu, and throwing my cpu on phase in the spring, and using H2O for the chipsets. That's if Phase can fit into my budget after I get my tax return. Otherwise, I'll put a 226W on whatever cpu it is that I end up with, and h20 everything else.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 14, 2007)

The "Backside cooler was real easy to fit" I is fixed on with sticky thermal pads underneath the backing plate for the heatsink.





First fitting (after looking at the photo I realized I had it the wrong way around!"




Fitted the right way around!




This is what it looks like when it is running.





I played around with FSB and have 3.20GHz out of it. Will post screens of bench and temps soon.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 14, 2007)

what the fark... that is... you should thank me for finding the cooler for a low price   

That looks simply awesome! With that backside cooling part loool

DAMN MUST GET IT


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 14, 2007)

Yes indeed Thanks for putting me on to it TK.
Another of it on my messy desk


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 14, 2007)

Shi. . . .t.
Your'e rig looks awesome.
I really like how your window only shows the heatsinks and nothing below it.
Relly draws attention to it.
New custom paint job on the case panels and that rig is going to look sick not that it's already well on it's way.

I would have suggested different fan grills but the fancy ones make noise, I know I own one.

I'm sending some pics of your rig to my bro now.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 14, 2007)

I cant believe how light the cooler is for its size!
Coz it is a monster of a thing!


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 14, 2007)

So the CPU fans suck air away from the heatsinks?
Yeah it's huge alright and you haven't said a thing about issues with clearance.

My bro is using a E6600 so depending on your bench results he might be interested in getting one.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 14, 2007)

how wide is that .... i dont think my HR-05 would fit with it, whats the width of the cooler?


----------



## Duffman (Dec 14, 2007)

whoa, that thing is a monster.  I think that's the first pic i've seen with one installed.  I think Thermalright's motto should be, "go big or go home"!

I agree about creating a new thread with the pertinant info from this one.  It was a chore going through all these posts!


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 14, 2007)

Wile E said:


> I had a 226W TEC (see link #1 in sig. lol.)



That is some serious carnage.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 14, 2007)

It was a little tricky to mount the motherboard back in but I enjoyed the challenge.
Ran 3d mark before and got 17876 thats using 3d mark 03.
I just need to work on painting the inside and more lighting and cable hiding.
Apparantly the config I have used with the fans is the best. Although this heatsink can be used with no fans.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 14, 2007)

damn, ill need to buy a HR-05 SLI to get that to fit  . 

EDIT: Actually, in the middle mount i could fit the HR-05 there... Nevermind about the IFX, its plainly too much overkill for me. Anyway, some interesting figures. The HR-01 Plus which i plan on getting soon (12 Heatpipes effectively as opposed to the eight on the previous version), outperforms the Thermalright Ultra 120, as well as being lighter its a more compact design overall. Looks like i'll be getting this, I already have a low RPM 120mm fan to go with it. This shall be interesting . In that review that I looked at, they did the testing at the same time, and did it several times thus, its fairly accurate. I reckon it would look nice with my HR-05 installed. The Smaller size of the HR-01 should make it easy for my HR-05 to have a good mounting position.

What temps do you get anyway?


----------



## imperialreign (Dec 14, 2007)

holy lord, cb, that has got to be the biggest air cooled fansink I've ever seen!

at least 95% of your case's airflow will be going right through that sucker!


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 15, 2007)

Are these temps o.k?




They are idle temps pc has been running for like 4 hours or so


----------



## Duffman (Dec 15, 2007)

imperialreign said:


> holy lord, cb, that has got to be the biggest air cooled fansink I've ever seen!
> 
> at least 95% of your case's airflow will be going right through that sucker!




never seen a Coolermaster Gemeni II?


----------



## erocker (Dec 15, 2007)

This thread has gone way off topic, but I saw some prototype like the Gemini II, where the fins basically covered the entire side of a case!


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 15, 2007)

Duffman said:


> never seen a Coolermaster Gemeni II?
> 
> 
> Please dont take offence to this but how on earth can the air flow inside that case with all of them wires in the way?
> And sorry for hi-jacking thread with my heatsink pics do those temps look o.k?


----------



## Duffman (Dec 15, 2007)

no offense taken.  it's not my pc.  It is my buddy's old case.


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 15, 2007)

After seeing all these pictures I couldn't resist the temptation to "show off" my CPU cooler.  I know you'll all be impressed.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 15, 2007)

pmcalduff said:


> After seeing all these pictures I couldn't resist the temptation to "show off" my CPU cooler.  I know you'll all be impressed.



I used to have a wicked mad cpu cooler like that!


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 15, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Duffman said:
> 
> 
> > never seen a Coolermaster Gemeni II?
> ...


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 15, 2007)

Hey TK how do my temps look?


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 15, 2007)

TK must be playing kicks in the backyard.

@Craigle
Do you have core temp program?
This way you can also give us your max load temp.
Just open up core temp and leave it running while playing your most demanding game.
Once you've stop playing the game close core temp and click on its log file and it will show the temps of the cores from the start of the game to the time you close core temp.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks looks like my load temps are 45
I do have a little problem tho arnt those volts high?


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 15, 2007)

According to the intel proccessor webiste, it's within it's boundries.
0.85v - 1.5v.

Here's the specs on your CPU.
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLA9V

Off topic:-
Forgot you had a kid.
Wondered why you were wearing such small gumboots. LOL!


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 15, 2007)

I will have to look in my bios and see it must be on auto or sumptin. I cant find anywhere to adjust the volts for my ram in my bios either.
I am such a noob.... 

 At the rate he is going my kid will know more about pc's than I do.


----------



## hat (Dec 15, 2007)

Here's a hint: take screenshots of only your active window. You do it like this:

Get the window you want a picture of active.
Press alt + printscreen
go into paint, irfanview, photoshop, whatever and save it.
Now you've got a much smaller file as far as image size goes so it doesn't need to be resized and it's smaller in kb/mb size too.

If you've got multiple windows that you want to show, just take pics of them one at a time.


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 15, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> I will have to look in my bios and see it must be on auto or sumptin. I cant find anywhere to adjust the volts for my ram in my bios either.
> I am such a noob....
> 
> At the rate he is going my kid will know more about pc's than I do.



Yeah speestep is most probably on and can only be deactivated through BIOS.
There's bound to be somewhere in your BIOS you do the tweaking but I'm not familiar with your BIOS.

Default CPU voltage for your CPU should be around 1.375v.

It's a good thing your kid has knowledge about PCs since they are going play a big part in his future with the way the world is going.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 15, 2007)

I agree Widjaja I just have to fight them for the pc when I get home from work coz they are always playing it. lol
I disabled A few things in there.... knocked the voltage down. runs cooler....?


----------



## imperialreign (Dec 15, 2007)

> never seen a Coolermaster Gemeni II?



naw, those pics are the first time I've ever seen one   Damn, Cooler Master makes so behemoth coolers, I swear!



> It's a good thing your kid has knowledge about PCs since they are going play a big part in his future with the way the world is going.



defi agree with this, cb.  I've grown up around computers, my father started teaching me how to program and repair stuff when I was only 5.  I tell ya, it's made a big difference for me, I think - I pick up new concepts and I understand new technology real quick, and I can usually logically deduce how things work and operate with very little knowledge going in.

Just a recommendation on my part, as you learn new stuff, be willing to teach your kid and keep him interested in computers.  For starters, it's an ever constant growing field, and should he decide to pursue a computer related career years down the road, he'll be much further ahead than most of his classmates; and you know where to look if there's ever anything you don't understand or need more info on!

Not sure how you'd feel about teaching him how to overclock just yet, though!


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 15, 2007)

despite its size, it performs worse than the Ultra-120 cooler from TRight, the IFX-14 is just 2x Ultra-120s.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 15, 2007)

He was out the back trying to O/C his bike today lol


eidairaman1 said:


> despite its size, it performs worse than the Ultra-120 cooler from TRight, the IFX-14 is just 2x Ultra-120s.


Why did Thermalright bring it out if it is not an improvement??? Mate it has been proven that the IFX-14 performs better than the Ultra!


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 15, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> He was out the back trying to O/C his bike today lol



Was he trying to put tiny little heat sinks on the chain.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 15, 2007)

pmcalduff said:


> Was he trying to put tiny little heat sinks on the chain.



ROFL


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 15, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> He was out the back trying to O/C his bike today lol
> 
> Why did Thermalright bring it out if it is not an improvement??? Mate it has been proven that the IFX-14 performs better than the Ultra!



Ok, what i was talking about was the Gemeni 2, Despite its enormous size and looks, it fails in compare to the Ultra-120 and the IF_14 is just 2 120s tied to eachother


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 15, 2007)

@Craigle
I'm guessing CPU-Z is off?
I had the same thing happened with my CPU.
I would bump up the voltage to 1.40 and CPU-Z still assumed it was 1.30v


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 15, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> @Craigle
> I'm guessing CPU-Z is off?
> I had the same thing happened with my CPU.
> I would bump up the voltage to 1.40 and CPU-Z still assumed it was 1.30v



How can I fix it yo?


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 15, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> @Craigle
> I'm guessing CPU-Z is off?
> I had the same thing happened with my CPU.
> I would bump up the voltage to 1.40 and CPU-Z still assumed it was 1.30v



CPU is NEVER correct about my voltages, it always display 1.325v. Apart from that, does that backside cooler get warm at all? As in the fins? You might want to attach a 70mm fan to it . Craig, add my email (check on first page of clubhouse please), ill send you something.

(Guests please look at pages 103 and under for information, and the first page for most of it on the 1k~HD3k information, err we are going off road for a bit atm, sorry for the inconvenence)
(Moderators, please don't do anything about how off topic we are. I will be very angry if it happens).


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 15, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> CPU is NEVER correct about my voltages, it always display 1.325v. Apart from that, does that backside cooler get warm at all? As in the fins? You might want to attach a 70mm fan to it .



Fan City ..... I will soon get complaints from my neighbours when I power on my rig and their lights dim!


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 15, 2007)

CPU-Z was fine with my old P4 3.0E but not this CPU.

Craigle,
Has the fan noise increased substantially since adding the IFX-14?


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 15, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Fan City ..... I will soon get complaints from my neighbours when I power on my rig and their lights dim!



That will never happen unfortuneately, even with two HD2900XTs and a QuadFX system in one,   you wouldnt be able to do anything like that. PCs dont use that much power... in your case, 350W at load, at the most.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 15, 2007)

yeah I know I was kidding! The 4 120mm coolermasters are quiet. Its the 80mm fans that are loud. Noise didnt change at all after adding the IFX-14. I need a fan controler so I can shut the 80's up a bit!


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 15, 2007)

that or get 120 fans


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 15, 2007)

O.K I will attempt to bring this thread back to its topic now.
What heatsink should I get for my Sapphire X1950 Pro?
Any suggestions would be great afterall TK helped me choose the Thermalright
QUOTE=Widjaja;569825]CPU-Z was fine with my old P4 3.0E but not this CPU.

Craigle,
Has the fan noise increased substantially since adding the IFX-14?[/QUOTE]

No extra noise with two extra 120's


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 15, 2007)

I'm guessing it's going to be between a Accellero X2 and a Zalman VF series vga coolers.
By the looks of your Sapphire you don't have VRMs.
Is that correct?


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 15, 2007)

I dunno I am a total noob at this stuff mate but willing to try anything. Page 104 there is a pic with side view of my card.


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 15, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> O.K I will attempt to bring this thread back to its topic now.
> What heatsink should I get for my Sapphire X1950 Pro?



I took a look at the picture on page 104 and his card has capacitors instead of the VRM units.  Now the Accellero X2 was designed specifically to fit onto the relatively flat surface of the VRM based cards.  If you try to put it on a card with capacitors the capacitors themselves get in the way.  How do I know?  Before getting my Zalman VF900cu I bought an Accellero X2 and it wouldn’t fit.   To make matters worse I didn’t figure this out until I had already torn the packaging open and put the thermal pads on my memory chips meaning that I couldn’t ask for my money back.  

Anyway that leaves you with the choice between the Zalman VF700 series and the VF900 series.  The 900 series had dual heat pipes and more fins.  As a result it can dissipate a lot more heat than the 700.  If you’re thinking of overclocking your card you should definitely go with the 900.


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 15, 2007)

Do the spikey ram heatsinks come in the same package as the VF900 or 700?
And what do they use as adhesion?
Epoxy or stick pads.


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 15, 2007)

They both come with the spiky memory heatsinks and they attach with adhesive sticky pads.  All you have to do is peel off a small plastic tab and put them on the chip.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 15, 2007)

You'll have to clean your memory chips, its not that simple, or else the RAMsinks will come off really easily. Make sure your fingers DONT touch the pads, because any oils from your hand detract from the stickiness of the pad. Its best to use rubbing alcohol to clean the chips, like 70% +


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 15, 2007)

pmcalduff said:


> I took a look at the picture on page 104 and his card has capacitors instead of the VRM units.  Now the Accellero X2 was designed specifically to fit onto the relatively flat surface of the VRM based cards.  If you try to put it on a card with capacitors the capacitors themselves get in the way.  How do I know?  Before getting my Zalman VF900cu I bought an Accellero X2 and it wouldn’t fit.   To make matters worse I didn’t figure this out until I had already torn the packaging open and put the thermal pads on my memory chips meaning that I couldn’t ask for my money back.
> 
> Anyway that leaves you with the choice between the Zalman VF700 series and the VF900 series.  The 900 series had dual heat pipes and more fins.  As a result it can dissipate a lot more heat than the 700.  If you’re thinking of overclocking your card you should definitely go with the 900.



The first PC I built with not knowing anything really about PC's but after a few months I relised I had given myself some serious limitations with the hardware I chose. So I sold it and built a new one...... Thats why I always ask on here now so I can learn from everyone else's mistakes! If I didnt ask I wouldnt know that Accellero X2 wont go with my card and I wouldve wasted time and money AGAIN.
So the Zalman VF900 is the choice?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 15, 2007)

ive been working on this machine since 04, the oldest part of the system is the Case and the fans that came with it Antec SX830. Im starting to feel its time to build the new machine and retire this one to a Media Server


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 16, 2007)

@ Craigle
If you want to be a bit more clued up on OCing the Sapphire, go PM Tigger.
I'm unsure if he's installed a aftermarket heastsink on his though.


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 16, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> So the Zalman VF900 is the choice?


My Powercolor X1950PRO 256 is very similar to your card and I’m very happy with the VF900.  It runs cooler than the stock cooler and it's a lot quieter even at high speed.  If you don't intend to overclock your card you can even put it on quiet mode.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 16, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> The first PC I built with not knowing anything really about PC's but after a few months I relised I had given myself some serious limitations with the hardware I chose. So I sold it and built a new one...... Thats why I always ask on here now so I can learn from everyone else's mistakes! If I didnt ask I wouldnt know that Accellero X2 wont go with my card and I wouldve wasted time and money AGAIN.
> So the Zalman VF900 is the choice?



VF900CU is the choice if you have the money, but a VF700CU would do fine as well, and cost less.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 16, 2007)

VF900CU It is


----------



## erocker (Dec 16, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> VF900CU is the choice if you have the money, but a VF700CU would do fine as well, and cost less.



I would think that a VF700CU would work really well on a HD3xxx series!  It's pretty cool that some of these smaller coolers are going to have a market with smaller cooler chips coming out.  I'm so glad that Nvidia/ATi aren't making thier cards any bigger.  These last generation cards are freakin powerpants.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 16, 2007)

erocker said:


> I would think that a VF700CU would work really well on a HD3xxx series!  It's pretty cool that some of these smaller coolers are going to have a market with smaller cooler chips coming out.  I'm so glad that Nvidia/ATi aren't making thier cards any bigger.  These last generation cards are freakin powerpants.



Yeah thats true, a VF700ALCU Takes the HD3870 down to 50*C Load, which is nonetheless impressive. Hey craig, don't purchase a VF900CU, you're somewhat wasting money since the X1950PRO won't overclock much, regardless of cooling. Just purchase a VF900ALCU.


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 16, 2007)

For what it’s worth I still recommend the VF900CU.  If you don’t need the full cooling power turn it down to silent mode which will cool you GPU better than the VF700ALCU running at full speed.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 17, 2007)

pmcalduff said:


> For what it’s worth I still recommend the VF900CU.  If you don’t need the full cooling power turn it down to silent mode which will cool you GPU better than the VF700ALCU running at full speed.



Thats fairly incorrect ya know?


----------



## Duffman (Dec 17, 2007)

seriously, i think the VF 700's are way underrated


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 17, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Thats fairly incorrect ya know?



This chart compares the VF900CU and the VF700CU and shows them to be very similar when the 700 is set to its maximum speed and the 900 is set to its minimum speed.  The VF77ALCU performs even worse than the VF700CU.

Don't get me wrong, the 700 series is good but the 900 series is better.


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 17, 2007)

It's also quiter at all fan settings:

VGA Cooler Test Results: Fan Noise and MP3 Recordings 
Fan Voltage/VF700CU LED/VF900CU 
12V      --     33 dBA@1m   --  31 dBA@1m 
 9V       ---     28 dBA@1m   --  27 dBA@1m 
 7V       ---     24 dBA@1m   --  23 dBA@1m 
 5V       ---     21 dBA@1m   --  20 dBA@1m 

HOW TO LISTEN & COMPARE
These recordings were made with a high resolution studio quality digital recording system. The microphone was 3" from the edge of the fan frame at a 45° angle, facing the intake side of the fan to avoid direct wind noise. The ambient noise during all recordings was 18 dBA or lower.


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 17, 2007)

By the way, how do I post pictures instead of tiny little thumbnails?


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 17, 2007)

pmcalduff said:


> It's also quiter at all fan settings:
> 
> VGA Cooler Test Results: Fan Noise and MP3 Recordings
> Fan Voltage/VF700CU LED/VF900CU
> ...



I laugh at you for not realising that those sound differences are minimal. I've used both coolers in different applications before, and afaik, they sound the same. 1db difference is negliable, moreover at 7v (best choice), i doubt you can clearly hear the fan. In Australia, the VF900CU costs $50, whilst the VF700ALCU costs $30. $20 difference.


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 17, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> I laugh at you for not realising that those sound differences are minimal. I've used both coolers in different applications before, and afaik, they sound the same. 1db difference is negliable, moreover at 7v (best choice), i doubt you can clearly hear the fan.



I'm well aware that 1db is not a difference anyone would ever notice, but your making the wrong comparison.  According to the first chart the 700 series cools the same at high speed as the 900 series at low speed.  So the comparison you need to be making is:


VF700CU at 12V -- 33 dBA@1m 
vs 
VF900CU at 5V -- 20 dBA@1m

Is thirteen dBA negligible?


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 17, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> In Australia, the VF900CU costs $50, whilst the VF700ALCU costs $30. $20 difference.



Okay you got me on the price.  Here in Korea the price difference is that same as in Australia.


----------



## Wile E (Dec 17, 2007)

pmcalduff said:


> I'm well aware that 1db is not a difference anyone would ever notice, but your making the wrong comparison.  According to the first chart the 700 series cools the same at high speed as the 900 series at low speed.  So the comparison you need to be making is:
> 
> 
> VF700CU at 12V -- 33 dBA@1m
> ...


Not at all negligible. Every 6dBA is double the volume. +13dBA is 4x louder.


----------



## Dangle (Dec 18, 2007)

Can I join this club? I use 2900XT.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 18, 2007)

Which one is it?


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 19, 2007)

Wow, what happened? Guys, whats with the inactivity?


----------



## imperialreign (Dec 19, 2007)




----------



## imperialreign (Dec 20, 2007)

Actually, though - I did have a question . . .

I'm thinking right now it's due to the xFire setup.

Alright, whenever I open a 3D program, after about 5 seconds or so, it stutters a little bit slideshows for a couple of seconds, then goes back to normal and I don't have the problem again until I open another program.

For example, if I run PCm05 - as soon as it opens and starts the 3D and Physics test, it starts stuttering.

If I open Crysis, a couple of seconds after the saved game loads, it'll stutter a bit.

I've already ruled out the soundcard, I never had this problem running one GPU.

It will also do it if xFire is disabled, but not as much as with both cards running.


I assume, then, that this is just stuttering from all the textures, etc being loaded to both cards at the same time?  Or is it because both cards are running at x8 on a P4 (somewhat bottlenecked) setup?


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 20, 2007)

I didnt realize you had two x1950 pro's imperialreign.


----------



## imperialreign (Dec 20, 2007)

> I didnt realize you had two x1950 pro's imperialreign.



 I do now!  Damn cheap, too.  The first card I bought back in July, retail was $245 - with $10 off at the register, and $70 mail-in rebate.  That card came out to $165.

The second one I got earlier this month off of a friend.  It's the same exact card that I already have, but was manufactured a month or two before the first one I bought.  Anyhow, he moved up to a 2900XT and offered me his card for $85 (instead of keeping it :shadedshu), I talked him to $70.

Total for both 1950's = $235


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 20, 2007)

I'm going to probably RMA my X1950PRO, the god damn cooler buzzes a lot, when its not supposed to.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 20, 2007)

Why not replace the cooler yourself T.K?


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 20, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Why not replace the cooler yourself T.K?



I would have if the memory pads werent stuck on with adhesive. Its impossible to remove the cooler atm without breaking the card, as far as I can see.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 22, 2007)

good point!


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 22, 2007)

After the 1.1 patch, pro street runs surprisingly well, ignoring the fact that there is a 30FPS framelock, however at the settings I play at, 6x AA (Temporal), 16x HQ AF, 1280x1024, there is rarely ever a drop in FPS now, before i was getting something like 25~15 FPS. Looks like I won't have to upgrade for a while. 

_Sidenote, why are all the forums seemingly very inactive? Including TPU, is everyone on holidays?_


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 22, 2007)

Re your side note TK I have noticed that too. They are all out shopping for christmas. 
Hey Widjaja noticed that my clock speeds are below stock is this correct?


----------



## rick22 (Dec 22, 2007)

Why don't you just add the new ATI cards to the club you have..How can you start this club when you don't have the card..


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 23, 2007)

why do you care?


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 23, 2007)

@Craigle
Yeah I'm sure I'm correct.
PCI-E Sapphire X1950pro have the same clock speed as the AGP, I looked it up on the Sapphire website.
Probably also the reason your'e a few degrees cooler than usual.
Temps should be in the early 40's


----------



## rick22 (Dec 23, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> why do you care?



1. to many new clubs..2. to many new clubs


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 23, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> @Craigle
> Yeah I'm sure I'm correct.
> PCI-E Sapphire X1950pro have the same clock speed as the AGP, I looked it up on the Sapphire website.
> Probably also the reason your'e a few degrees cooler than usual.
> Temps should be in the early 40's



I wonder if it will hurt the memory to put it where it should be??


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 23, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> I wonder if it will hurt the memory to put it where it should be??



It’s really funny that you and I seem to have had the exact problems.  I noticed that my card was running below it’s rated speed and contacted the folks at PowerColor to see what was the matter.  It seems that the core and memory speeds are set incrementally.  As a result your card will be a little below or a little above the rated speed.  To be safe manufactures set cards just below the rated speed.  However, I don’t think putting it up one setting level will hurt anything.  

I believe your card is rated at the following:

•  ATI RADEON™ X1950 PRO core (580MHz) 
•  256MB GDDR3 onboard memory (1400MHz) 700 X2


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 23, 2007)

Although I have now put the core and mem speeds at the rated specs I dont think that it will result in a big difference in my crappy 3dmark 06 scores.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 23, 2007)

rick22 said:


> Why don't you just add the new ATI cards to the club you have..How can you start this club when you don't have the card..





rick22 said:


> 1. to many new clubs..2. to many new clubs



Okay, please observe what I say rick but, you misunderstand a lot of things. 
First of all, this Club is one of the oldest and thriving clubhouses that are actually useful. "1. to many new clubs..2. to many new clubs", from what I understand you meant _too_, its no problem if you aren't from an english speaking country, but I don't think thats the case. Moreover, this club has been around for more than half a year, its almost a year old. Please differentiate this club from the rest. 

Now, do I have to reiterate this debate? Useful clubs vs useless clubs, useful as in providing much support for issues etcetra. Useless, as in spamholes, etcetra-which is not what this club is. 

"Why dont you just add the new ATI card to the club you have.... how can you start this club when you dont have the card.." What is that supposed to mean in the first place? Are you saying that I dont deserve the right to help others? And fact, this USED to be a X1950PRO Clubhouse when I started it. I have several other people to help me on the newer cards, in terms of support etcetra. 

No offense, clean your bad grammar up, because it can cause MUCH misunderstanding.



Craigleberry said:


> Although I have now put the core and mem speeds at the rated specs I dont think that it will result in a big difference in my crappy 3dmark 06 scores.



100~200 points at most. I don't think you could get much out of overclocking by a small amount like that sorta sucks that the X1950PRO is almost maxed out, out of the box, but meh.


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 23, 2007)

I made the following increases to my card (it was rated very low)

Core Clock 574MHz up to 594MHz
Memory Clock 600MHz up to 695MHz

And that brought my 3dmark 06 scores for similar systems up from second to last to average.  Since I'm not a hardcore overclocker I'm very happy with the results.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 23, 2007)

If he is against clubs then WHY the bloody hell does he come in and read and post in them?


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 23, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> If he is against clubs then WHY the bloody hell does he come in and read and post in them?



For shits and giggles?


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 23, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> If he is against clubs then WHY the bloody hell does he come in and read and post in them?



Because he's bored and lonely.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 23, 2007)

lol.... Any idea why my 3dmark scores are so crap?


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 23, 2007)

GPU clocks were low.
You were getting the correct CPU mark.


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 23, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> lol.... Any idea why my 3dmark scores are so crap?



What are your scores?


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 23, 2007)

pmcalduff said:


> What are your scores?



http://service.futuremark.com/orb/resultanalyzer.jsp?projectType=14&XLID=0&UID=12861242


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 23, 2007)

Here's some proof of me getting higher scores and I think it's just GPU clocks.
http://service.futuremark.com/orb/resultanalyzer.jsp?projectType=14&XLID=0&UID=12887571


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 23, 2007)

There your speeds are 573 core 688 memory.  When you get your Zalman cooler kick it up to 600 core 700 memory.  You'd be surprised what a difference a few clocks will make.  Seriously, I was in the same boat as you.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 23, 2007)

Nope found the problem some way some how in CCC all of the settings were cranked right up and application control was set to off. Here is my result after a little tweaking in CCC. 
Thanks for pointing that out for me widjaja.
http://service.futuremark.com/orb/resultanalyzer.jsp?projectType=14&XLID=0&UID=12888106


----------



## Duffman (Dec 23, 2007)

Hey guys.

It seems the 700alcu's that i bought aren't quite up to the task or are not making proper contact on the gpu.  When running Hellgate London, I was seeing temps of 90c and having lots of clipping.  When i had the one 2900 with the Thermaltake cooler, temps never got much above 60c under load.

I'm also looking at maybe getting another motherboard that has two x16 slots as my 3Dmark06 scores didn't really improve all that much.  Also, a new mobo might let me use two thermalrights.  My current one won't let me use two, at least not with a fan on the top card.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 23, 2007)

My HIS 1950 Pro ran at 573/688 when it was advertised as 575/690, But that card started artifacting.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 23, 2007)

Mine is running at the stock specs now fine... No problems running Crysis


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 23, 2007)

Duffman said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> It seems the 700alcu's that i bought aren't quite up to the task or are not making proper contact on the gpu.  When running Hellgate London, I was seeing temps of 90c and having lots of clipping.  When i had the one 2900 with the Thermaltake cooler, temps never got much above 60c under load.
> 
> I'm also looking at maybe getting another motherboard that has two x16 slots as my 3Dmark06 scores didn't really improve all that much.  Also, a new mobo might let me use two thermalrights.  My current one won't let me use two, at least not with a fan on the top card.



WHOA STOP. VF700ALCU isnt for the HD2900PRO. HURRY UP AND BOLT BACK ON THE STOCK COOLER.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 23, 2007)

http://service.futuremark.com/orb/resultanalyzer.jsp?projectType=14&XLID=0&UID=12888766

heres mine


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 23, 2007)

Pretty good for only having a gig of RAM..


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 23, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Pretty good for only having a gig of RAM..



and 400mhz less clockspeed 

http://service.futuremark.com/orb/resultanalyzer.jsp?projectType=14&XLID=0&UID=12889057

a small improvement. The system doesnt run at 3.15Ghz anymore for some odd reason


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 23, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Nope found the problem some way some how in CCC all of the settings were cranked right up and application control was set to off. Here is my result after a little tweaking in CCC.
> Thanks for pointing that out for me widjaja.
> http://service.futuremark.com/orb/resultanalyzer.jsp?projectType=14&XLID=0&UID=12888106



Much better.
It was just wrong having a system with those specs get under 5K in 3Dmark.
I only use ATT so I don't get all those wierd clocks happening for no reason and no long wait at startup.

BTW with everything stock your temps should not get above 82deg.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 23, 2007)

Still runs pretty cool 42 idle temp I will check load soon


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 23, 2007)

See if it stays that way after gaming.
The Rev2 X1950pro you have should be a little cooler than mine.
I think with the cooling in your system you will get about 76deg. . . 

My Sapphire is idling at 53-54deg and as usual hit 80deg max temp.
Does this after playing the very unoptimized console port, Colin Mcrae DiRT.
Some races with AI cars bring my system to a crawl. 

I have pretty average case cooling trying to figure out how I can add a 120mm at the front Also get a better CPU cooler, the stock x2 just doesn't cut it for overclocking.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 23, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> See if it stays that way after gaming.
> The Rev2 X1950pro you have should be a little cooler than mine.
> I think with the cooling in your system you will get about 76deg. . .
> 
> ...



Cable ties are excelent for mounting fans were they arent supposed to go 
59 deg whist playing bf2 pushed alt f4 and checked temps.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 23, 2007)

http://service.futuremark.com/orb/resultanalyzer.jsp?projectType=14&XLID=0&UID=12889441

Jesus, this is driving me nuts. My setup ATM is:

Core 2 Duo E6300 @ 2996mhz Stock Voltage
2x512MB DDR667 Generic @ DDR644 Stock Voltage
Powercolor X1950PRO Extreme 256MB @ 621/776..

Craig, take note I also have less frame buffer on my GPU


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 23, 2007)

Dude thats coming close to my score do you use CCC or ATT?


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 23, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Dude thats coming close to my score do you use CCC or ATT?



CCC, ATT, both dont give any difference, its the matter of luck.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 23, 2007)

My load temps for my cpu are 48 and 52 with that IFX-14 idle is 35 and 41


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 23, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> My load temps for my cpu are 48 and 52 with that IFX-14 idle is 35 and 41



Holy f***.... thats lower than my Idle and Load temp at 1.86Ghz Impressive! Know I know what numbers i'll get once I get that HR-01 Plus.


----------



## Duffman (Dec 23, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> WHOA STOP. VF700ALCU isnt for the HD2900PRO. HURRY UP AND BOLT BACK ON THE STOCK COOLER.




Yeah, it fits physically, but i think there is a gap where the cooler should meet the gpu.  The GUP die sits a mm or so lower than the square metal that surrounds the gpu.  I can feel the AS5 making contact with the cooler, but i don't think it is seated on the gpu


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 23, 2007)

Duffman said:


> Yeah, it fits physically, but i think there is a gap where the cooler should meet the gpu.  The GUP die sits a mm or so lower than the square metal that surrounds the gpu.  I can feel the AS5 making contact with the cooler, but i don't think it is seated on the gpu



First off, to make things clear, even if it fits, its not at all relevant to what I mean. the VF700ALCU is no way, a solution for the R600, even if it fits, it doesnt have the capacity to handle the heat of the R600. Thats why only some coolers can cool the R600 because of its monstrous heat  output, get it? Even IF you get the mounting properly, the stock cooler will do much better than your VF700ALCU. In case you don't get it:

*SWITCH BACK TO THE STOCK COOLER
SWITCH BACK TO THE STOCK COOLER
SWITCH BACK TO THE STOCK COOLER
SWITCH BACK TO THE STOCK COOLER
SWITCH BACK TO THE STOCK COOLER
SWITCH BACK TO THE STOCK COOLER
SWITCH BACK TO THE STOCK COOLER
SWITCH BACK TO THE STOCK COOLER
SWITCH BACK TO THE STOCK COOLER
SWITCH BACK TO THE STOCK COOLER
SWITCH BACK TO THE STOCK COOLER
SWITCH BACK TO THE STOCK COOLER
SWITCH BACK TO THE STOCK COOLER
SWITCH BACK TO THE STOCK COOLER
SWITCH BACK TO THE STOCK COOLER
SWITCH BACK TO THE STOCK COOLER
SWITCH BACK TO THE STOCK COOLER*

_Side note: Proof, touch the fins of the cooler I can assure you they are hot to touch, its like putting a Pentium 3 Cooler (Small aluminium cooler) on a Pentium D 820_


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 23, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> My load temps for my cpu are 48 and 52 with that IFX-14 idle is 35 and 41



Looks like I might be getting a CPU coole soon.
The brick like Tuniq Tower 120 LFB is going cheap here atm.

edit:-
I just bought the Tuniq Tower 120 LFB.
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2198

I mean shit I'm getting up to 54 deg max temp in this summer heat.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 23, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> Looks like I might be getting a CPU coole soon.
> The brick like Tuniq Tower 120 LFB is going cheap here atm.
> 
> edit:-
> ...



Eheheh... is that good?


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 23, 2007)

AMD X2 4800+. . . 60 and it will crash.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 24, 2007)

@ Widjaja I like the look of that cooler sure to bling up your rig!! I lapped my cooler got a couple deg's lower I will have another shot at it one day as I couldnt seem to get the mirror finish that people have got.


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 24, 2007)

Anything cooler is better than what temps I'm getting right now.

Looks like I'll have to get a slim window fan too.
25mm might be cutting it to close to the cooler.
I don't think they make LED fans 15mm thick though.
Only bog standard black.
Unless someone knows of one.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 24, 2007)

The ones I have are 25mm thick good luck finding them in 15mm. I had a look here http://www.pccasegear.com/category326_1.htm couldnt see any though.


----------



## imperialreign (Dec 24, 2007)

> Looks like I'll have to get a slim window fan too.
> 25mm might be cutting it to close to the cooler.
> I don't think they make LED fans 15mm thick though.
> Only bog standard black.
> Unless someone knows of one.



what size LxH fan?  I'll see if I might be able to dig something up with a 15mm width . . .


edit>>

aww . ..  hell with it:

80mm x 80mm x 15mm
they have a few others listed in 80x80x15

80 x 80 x 15
not LED, but it's not black, either

120 x 120 x 15


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 24, 2007)

Yeah found a clear HIPER 80X80X15 LED in a UK store but I'm in damn New Zealand.
I'm just looking for something a bit bling.
I think I've found two but they're not LED

SilenX iXtrema
http://www.legionenterprises.co.nz/...rema-pro-80x15mm-14dba-slim-fan/prod_601.html 

Zalman replacement VGA fan.
http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=88&code=013

I already have one of these grills http://www.directron.com/mosw80lachfa.html
so what I could do is put the Zalman plate in between the window and the fan behind the grill.

But thats about it and they'll probably be better than the 80 LED fan I have at the moment.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 24, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> Yeah found a clear HIPER 80X80X15 LED in a UK store but I'm in damn New Zealand.
> I'm just looking for something a bit bling.
> I think I've found two but they're not LED
> 
> ...



Hey Widjaja Those grills are the ducks guts I have got to get two of them for the side of my machine!!


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 24, 2007)

They may look the mutts nuts but I have to say they can bring up the noise of the fan over the standard ones you have.
Although yes they would look nice on your machine.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 24, 2007)

I replaced my silent exhaust 120mm with my Thermaltake high speed today and I dont think a little bit more noise will bother me. ROFL


----------



## AciDCooL (Dec 25, 2007)

Hey guys guess I was posting in the wrong area 

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=579885&postcount=576


----------



## imperialreign (Dec 25, 2007)

> I replaced my silent exhaust 120mm with my Thermaltake high speed today and I dont think a little bit more noise will bother me. ROFL



That's what the volume knob on the speakers is meant to adjust for


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 26, 2007)

Hey I am in the process of getting another X1950 but I dont have a crossfire bridge where can I get one?


----------



## imperialreign (Dec 26, 2007)

best price, go with AMD/ATI shop themselves:

Crossfire interconnect


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 26, 2007)

Here:-http://www.eyo.com.au/prod_D-XFire-Bridge_proddesc_ATI_CrossFire_Internal_Interconnect_Bridge.html


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 26, 2007)

I never got one with my x1950 pro from brand new... Pretty stupid having to buy that aswell. I guess that is how they make money!


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 26, 2007)

Once you get the second card in crossfire, you should get 1 1/2 times the performance of one card!

You will benefit from having two cards though, with the size of your screen.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 26, 2007)

Even with my p35 chipset  Am I right that one runs at 16x and the other retards down to 4x?


----------



## Wile E (Dec 26, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Even with my p35 chipset  Am I right that one runs at 16x and the other retards down to 4x?


You're right, but you'll still see improvements over a single card. Test show a 4-10% performance loss with 16+4 Crossfire. Worst case, it's still around 50% boost.


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 26, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Even with my p35 chipset  Am I right that one runs at 16x and the other retards down to 4x?



As far as I know it's true but I think the performance is on par with SLi.
Can't remember exactly how it works, my brother told me about it.

Wile E confirms what I was saying about 1 1/2 cards.
But this goes for SLi too even though you can get both cards going at 16x


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 26, 2007)

Sweet I can play around with O/C aswell once I score some good cooling for em
Cool @ Widjaja I think its about time your avatar took her Christmas bikini off dont you? After all Christmas is over lol and I wanna see her without it of course lol


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 26, 2007)

Lol!
Getting addicted to modding?
Nothing wrong with it.
Just don't talk to the missus about it.
I'm sure she wouldn't give a damn how many more 3Dmarks you scored.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 26, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> Lol!
> Getting addicted to modding?
> Nothing wrong with it.
> Just don't talk to the missus about it.
> I'm sure she wouldn't give a damn how many more 3Dmarks you scored.



She likes the PC coz it keeps me out of her hair lol


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 26, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> She likes the PC coz it keeps me out of her hair lol



Thats a First, usually its the female wants you off the machine to pay attention to them.


----------



## AciDCooL (Dec 26, 2007)

Mine is nagging about the noise when I set my fanspeed to 100% and then wants some attention


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 26, 2007)

Mine has a bun in the oven and wont let me anywhere near her (my work is done! for now)


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 26, 2007)

Guys, stop going off topic, thank you. We don't need a rebirth of the teen clubhouse over here.


----------



## imperialreign (Dec 26, 2007)

> You're right, but you'll still see improvements over a single card. Test show a 4-10% performance loss with 16+4 Crossfire. Worst case, it's still around 50% boost.



I can concur, also - even on an 975X/P4 system.  Just by synthetic scores alone (3m06), I went from 4693 single card in x16, to 6471 xFired with both in x8.  Both scores with same CPU/MEM clocks.

For the few games I've been playing recently, I've seen a near about 50% increase in FPS.  ALthough, it's worse in Crysis . . . until we see a patch or something . . . FEAR was running ~24-35 FPS with full AA/AF and options with one card, in xFire runs about ~45-60 FPS with full AA/AF with options.  Black & White 2 was running ~29-40 FPS with full options with one card, and runs about ~45-60 FPS with two and all options enabled.

I've been too busy to get around to any other games though . . . the only thing I don't really like, is every once in a while I'll get an error when opening a game, usually referencing a DX9 .dll - I get the feeling it's an issue between CCC and ATT.  Also, after loading up a game, there's a few second stutter; I think just the lag of opening up large textures into mem, because the stutter doesn't ever happen again in-game.  I've had to not save my games right before a ton of action.

Occasionally, they'll be some graphical glitches . . . best way to describe it is like shimmering lines at the edges of polygons, sometimes textures disappear for a quick instant.  Nothing major or irritating, though.



*I had a quick question for some others here . . . when not in xFire, you can enable the second primary output display once you've tricked WIN into thinking there's one there (even if you don't have a monitor attached).  I've been doing this for using the F@H GPU client, one console for each card . . . but, I just installed CAT 7.12, and now WIN won't leave the desktop "extended" even though I've tried the trick method (plug the monitor into the primary output of second GPU so WIN sees a second monitor, click 'extend desktop' and unplug and reboot).  I've made sure to disable auto detect displays in CCC, but no avail.  Any ideas, aside from actually installing a 2nd monitor?


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 26, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Guys, stop going off topic, thank you. We don't need a rebirth of the teen clubhouse over here.



I'm sure if you had a GF you would need some guys to talk to as well.
At least with a PC, if it gets annoying you can shut it down.



imperialreign said:


> I've been too busy to get around to any other games though . . . the only thing I don't really like, is every once in a while I'll get an error when opening a game, usually referencing a DX9 .dll - I get the feeling it's an issue between CCC and ATT.  Also, after loading up a game, there's a few second stutter; I think just the lag of opening up large textures into mem, because the stutter doesn't ever happen again in-game.  I've had to not save my games right before a ton of action.
> 
> Occasionally, they'll be some graphical glitches . . . best way to describe it is like shimmering lines at the edges of polygons, sometimes textures disappear for a quick instant.  Nothing major or irritating, though.



I all those glitches with my card.
Never had it with my nVidia card.
It's a incompatibility issue with the software.
I get the shimmering edges, what that seems to be is a gap between certain polygons where the textures arent connecting.
You are correct about the texture loading causing lag too.
Does this in S.T.A.L.K.E.R, V8 Supercars 3 Australia and The Sims 2.
Loading textures might be a weak point in the X1950pro.


----------



## imperialreign (Dec 26, 2007)

> I all those glitches with my card.
> Never had it with my nVidia card.
> It's a incompatibility issue with the software.
> I get the shimmering edges, what that seems to be is a gap between certain polygons where the textures arent connecting.
> ...



Thought so . . . although, I kinda contributed the lag to the Pentium 4 and low BUS speeds I'm running . . . I guess I'll just have to see whenever I get another CPU.  At least it doesn't do it once the game is up and running - only at game startup


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 27, 2007)

I used to have a P4 3.0E HT 478skt.
When I upgraded to the X2 4800+, there wasn't any difference with the texture loading.
That is all to do with the GPU.
The only thing the CPU did was hold a much more constant fps and loading times were faster.

As I've said in the past with this card.
Some games it runs smooth as silk but others it just plain stinks.
Just that texture loading thing.

Put it this way.
My nVidia 7600GS handles loading textures to vram in games better then the X1950pro.
But the fps just stinks.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 27, 2007)

lol its my X1950PRO's bday! 

Anyway, just had an upgrade, 

DFI Infinity 975X/G  >>>>> P31 DS3L
DDR667 2x512MB >>>>>>> DDR1066 2x1GB

I'd expect to have way more performance now with more RAM  Just waiting for the cooler to be avaliable however. I haven't tiedied the system up yet so its still fairly messy. 







Geez, the HD3850 ASUS is so cheap and comes with preinstalled aftermarket cooling as well as CoH... 





So what do you guys think about that cooler? (I took that pic btw).


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 27, 2007)

Better than the leaf blower you had before


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 27, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Better than the leaf blower you had before



That HD3850 isnt mine btw... its a customer's . Im building him a PC atm, just waiting for retailers to repoen to snatch the HR-01 Plus and RC690

Anyway here are the specs

Core 2 Duo E4600
2x1GB DDR800
Gigabyte GA P35 DS3L
ASUS HD3850 512MB with that nice cooling
320GB Western Digital SATAII (thanks to only 3.AAK drives being present)
Coolermaster RC690 (and fans in all the 120mm slots )
Thermalright HR-01 PLUS + 120mm fan (he wants to overclock)

Yeah...


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 27, 2007)

He should get a nice O/C out of that....
I dont mind that case either.... Need a side window mod for it but.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 27, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> He should get a nice O/C out of that....
> I dont mind that case either.... Need a side window mod for it but.



450FSB, sweet!

Yeah a case window would be fine. I would like it if i could have the case window premodded... without that gay strip large rubber strip that people usually use. I just want a square window on it.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 27, 2007)

450FSB Is my next target once I aquire some Good RAM. I am sitting on 405 FSB Stable ATM


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 27, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> 450FSB Is my next target once I aquire some Good RAM. I am sitting on 405 FSB Stable ATM



Drop the RAM to the lowest multiplier... then overclock from there.







lol, i desperately need new cooling at this rate...

Craig could you help me with something? can you tell me how much of the northbridge is covered by the 120mm fan thats in the middle? I want to install a HR-05 + HR-01 Plus and yeah, sorta worried they wont fit together. It probably will but just making sure, since we have motherboards that are almost the same in dimensions.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 27, 2007)

Man thats going to be a tight squeeze just looking through the window It covers half of the northbridge heatsink has plenty of clearance over stock heatsink easily enough to put on a fan if I wanted.... I will post exact dimensions for you tommorow arvo got stuff to do ATM. Here is a pic of it fitted after I realized that I had it 90 deg out!!! lol. I just noticed the temps on that core 2 bloody hell!!!


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 27, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Man thats going to be a tight squeeze just looking through the window It covers half of the northbridge heatsink has plenty of clearance over stock heatsink easily enough to put on a fan if I wanted.... I will post exact dimensions for you tommorow arvo got stuff to do ATM. Here is a pic of it fitted after I realized that I had it 90 deg out!!! lol. I just noticed the temps on that core 2 bloody hell!!!



OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOL. That made my day lol.... 

lol don't worry about measuring it. It will fit if the larger-in-width CNPS7700CU fits, in this case it does with the NB cooler. Looks like ill have thermalrighted half my system .

Might even get the cooling for my RAM.

EDIT: what do you mean craig by 90* out?


----------



## Wile E (Dec 27, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Might even get the cooling for my RAM.
> 
> EDIT: what do you mean craig by 90* out?


Be careful. If your ram has factory heat spreaders, you may have to remove them to use the coolers. Doing so voids the warranty. I recommend a ram cooling fan instead. The Corsair or OCZ ones or nice, or you can go the route I did, and use an Antec Spot Cool.

As far as 90* out, he just means it was facing up and down, instead of blowing out the rear exhaust.


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 27, 2007)

@Craigle
I noticed you had the fans pointing up in one of your earlier pics.
I wondered what was going on.

@TK
Craigleberry's CPU cooler was installed 90deg the wrong way in the pic.
Thats was the funny part. . . . .wasn't it?
Erm what were you laughing at then?
What did make your day?

Confusing


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 27, 2007)

Thats right I took great care in fitting it to the motherboard only to mount it in there and realize it wasnt facing the right way to vent out the heat. Thats life.(I just hope that the bloody mother of a thing dosnt warp my mobo) I think he meant it made his day because I stuffed it up!! lol


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 27, 2007)

Ahh I see.
I'm wondering the same thing about my CPU cooler.
It weighs 798grms without the fan.
Waht does your CPU cooler weigh?


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 27, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> @Craigle
> I noticed you had the fans pointing up in one of your earlier pics.
> I wondered what was going on.
> 
> ...



I misread it as CPU cooler running at 90*C lol... nvm... i was fairly tired.

Wile E, if you had a look on the previous page there werent any heatspreaders preinstalled, and anyway I was joking. However, as i kept my HR-05 instead of giving it away, i may buy the RAM cooling. But its not for a really practical purpose anyway, not like the memory will be able to take more voltage anyway if i decide to cool it better as the modules dont even run warm at stock speed.






Sorta fixed up the cabling, cbf fixing it up more. HR-05 installed, imho the push pins provide better retention compared to the hooks that were present on my old motherboard.


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 27, 2007)

Yeah just installed the Tuniq Tower 120 LFB.
What a B**CH to install!

Here's the story of the fiasco:-
1:-I had to literally hack the edge off one corner of the mounting bracket since a cap was in the way.
So now it's only compatible with K8 AM2 and P4 socket types.
Next thing to piss me off.
2:-It says to use the springs on the screws, but hey the damn screws will not go down far enough so I reluctantly didn't use them.:shadedshu
3:-I didn't read the instruction manual properly and found I had to take off the original stock mounting bracket on the top, and spent a while wondering why the screws were too short.
4:-After practicing at being a contortionist (I can nearly bend my hands backwards to touch my wrists now) I finally installed it with some AS5 in between.
5:- Realised it won't fit with any side fan unless I place one on the outside of the case so I 
have no real form of intake now.
Seeing the heatsink was secure enough without the springs I decided to fire her up and away she went without a hitch, glowing its pretty budget LED light show!

Now for the reward besides my now double jointed wrists.

AMD stock 4 pipe X2 heatsink 54deg-53 core 59deg uGURU clock.

Tuniq Tower 120LFB 44deg-43deg core 49 deg uGURU clock.
10deg drop in temps over stock HS.

What do you guys think of the temp drop?


----------



## erocker (Dec 27, 2007)

The temp drop is good.  Personally though, I would't go re-engineering my system just to put a cooler on.  You may want to try to find a universal retention kit (I think Scythe makes one), just to make sure everything is on properly.  I would be a little concerned about not using the springs, you don't want too much pressure on something.  I would take it off and re-check it to make sure everything is ok.


----------



## erocker (Dec 27, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Man thats going to be a tight squeeze just looking through the window It covers half of the northbridge heatsink has plenty of clearance over stock heatsink easily enough to put on a fan if I wanted.... I will post exact dimensions for you tommorow arvo got stuff to do ATM. Here is a pic of it fitted after I realized that I had it 90 deg out!!! lol. I just noticed the temps on that core 2 bloody hell!!!



My God that is huge!!!  That thing puts my Scythe Infinity to shame!


----------



## DaMulta (Dec 27, 2007)

WTH is that?


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 28, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> Yeah just installed the Tuniq Tower 120 LFB.
> What a B**CH to install!
> 
> Here's the story of the fiasco:-
> ...



Its a good drop, but i'd recommend you get a new case and install the cooler outside of the system.


----------



## Wile E (Dec 28, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> WTH is that?


Thermalright IFX-14


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 28, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Thermalright IFX-14



Its known as the best air cooler out there 

Makes stuff like the tuniq tower look like weaksauce


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 28, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Makes stuff like the tuniq tower look like weaksauce



Lol

The IFX-14 is a monster cooler and should perform better than my brick.
2.61Ghz is achieveable with the same temps I had when at stock settings with the stock cooler, plus my system is alot quieter.
Before 2.61Ghz was quite warm.

Since I can't use a side fan atm I'm going to get another 120mm for the front and make a panel where there are three empty drive bay slots and install one there.
Air will be directed straight at the CPU cooler and missing everthing else.

Searched and found a couple of threads about the installation of the Tuniq Tower and how people have found them very difficult to install on 939skts with the springs on after noticing it myself.
People said the really solid mounting bracket actually bends a bit with the springs on.
I've attached it well enough to make sure it isn't going to come loose or bend the motherboard and is doing it's job well.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 28, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> Yeah just installed the Tuniq Tower 120 LFB.
> What a B**CH to install!
> 
> Here's the story of the fiasco:-
> ...



So it was a challenge to fit but at least you didnt let it beat you!
Bloody good temp drop what thermal paste did you use?
Any pics?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 28, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> So it was a challenge to fit but at least you didnt let it beat you!
> Bloody good temp drop what thermal paste did you use?
> Any pics?





You think that cooler is hard to install, try a Big Typhoon on a SKT A motherboard, those small nuts that are used are a pain to tighten down, they should of used wingnuts


----------



## Widjaja (Dec 28, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> So it was a challenge to fit but at least you didnt let it beat you!
> Bloody good temp drop what thermal paste did you use?
> Any pics?



If it seems like I'm going down I don't go down without a fight.
I'm using good ol' AS5.

I have no intake now except for a hole with the chorme swirly grill in the center of my case window.
You can actually feel the air getting sucked through it.
2.61Ghz doesn't make me think about my CPU now since it's at the same temp as when I have it at stock clocks and voltage with my stock cooler.

I'll get some photos of my rig once I get my camera back.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 28, 2007)

Widjaja said:


> If it seems like I'm going down I don't go down without a fight.
> I'm using good ol' AS5.
> 
> I have no intake now except for a hole with the chorme swirly grill in the center of my case window.
> ...



With my Rig i had to mount the rear fans externally, System temps didnt change regardless.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 28, 2007)

eidairaman1 said:


> You think that cooler is hard to install, try a Big Typhoon on a SKT A motherboard, those small nuts that are used are a pain to tighten down, they should of used wingnuts


Thumb screws atleast


----------



## eidairaman1 (Dec 28, 2007)

what i was getting at is the Mobo requires 4 mounting holes which it has, but it requires a I-Plate on back and on that I Plate 4 machine screws go through the Plate through the mobo, then you mount Bronze Collars on the screws to secure them from moving then you mount the cooler then the other plate then the small nuts which if you dont have a wrench they get messed up easily and tend to be hard to tweak due to the size, TT could have thought up of using Wingnuts (Easier to work with on such small projects)


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 28, 2007)

I know what you where getting at


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 30, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> I know what you where getting at



Single sentence, replies to something thats totally off topic usually kills this thread afaik.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 30, 2007)

Anyway, I am probably soon getting an ASUS HD3850 512MB! The performance of the card completely smashes that of my X1950PRO! Not only that, I'm rather sick of the buzzing cooler.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 30, 2007)

Cool I would be interested to see how that goes for you. 
How much are you getting that sucker for?


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 30, 2007)

Craigleberry said:


> Cool I would be interested to see how that goes for you.
> How much are you getting that sucker for?



Well, i do have one at the moment; a HD3850. I COULD test it now if I wanted to, but i'm instead testing it as soon as i finish construction of one of my customer's systems.


----------



## Darknova (Dec 30, 2007)

tk, welcome to the 3800 series 

I got a 3870 the other day. Just fitted an Accelero S1 to it because the stock fan is like a bloody leafblower. Never heard anything like it!!


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 30, 2007)

Okay.,... *Happy dance* 

My AcceleroX2 came off! w00t! Now, time to buy a VF700ALCU for it. Anwyay for the meantime i bolted on a 92mm fan onto the bare fin array! Much more quiet.


----------



## Wile E (Dec 30, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Okay.,... *Happy dance*
> 
> My AcceleroX2 came off! w00t! Now, time to buy a VF700ALCU for it. Anwyay for the meantime i bolted on a 92mm fan onto the bare fin array! Much more quiet.


Care to enlighten me as to how you did it? I still have that X1800XT floating around with the Accelero stuck to it. (Quite literally)


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 30, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Care to enlighten me as to how you did it? I still have that X1800XT floating around with the Accelero stuck to it. (Quite literally)



Yeah i thought so too... err carefully pull on the side thats facing the rear of the case of the card (unscrew all the screws first though on your card), try to just hold onto both sides. You should see the pads slowly "expanding", then softly losing grip. Like do it with the slightest angle as those BGA modules are easy to damage. Just wait for all the pads to come off. Apparently whats holding them is their suction. Anyway guys, what cooler should I get now?


----------



## Wile E (Dec 30, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Yeah i thought so too... err carefully pull on the side thats facing the rear of the case of the card (unscrew all the screws first though on your card), try to just hold onto both sides. You should see the pads slowly "expanding", then softly losing grip. Like do it with the slightest angle as those BGA modules are easy to damage. Just wait for all the pads to come off. Apparently whats holding them is their suction. Anyway guys, what cooler should I get now?


Accelero S1.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 30, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Accelero S1.



I was thinking about that . $37 AUD + 2 of my 92mm fans on low... looks very desireable .

Well, atm with the modded acceleroX2...  i can only hear tiny noise, which is the CPU cooler that loves to rev at max, but its not loud at all. So,  this is the list of what I'm getting:

-Accelero S1
-Thermalright HR-01 (above average, ultra hot temperatures + humid day +  intel stock cooler = BAD)
-Two sets of heatspreader for RAM


----------



## Darknova (Dec 30, 2007)

Wile E said:


> Accelero S1.



+1


----------



## Duffman (Dec 30, 2007)

damn my 2900's and no good options for aftermarket coolers!!!!!!!!

(The Thermalright didn't work with either of my MB's for Crossfire.)


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 30, 2007)

Duffman said:


> damn my 2900's and no good options for aftermarket coolers!!!!!!!!
> 
> (The Thermalright didn't work with either of my MB's for Crossfire.)



I'd lap the base of the stock cooler, however taking care of NOT reducing the inset of the base. Changing the thermal paste is a good option too.


----------



## imperialreign (Dec 30, 2007)

> I'd lap the base of the stock cooler, however taking care of NOT reducing the inset of the base. Changing the thermal paste is a good option too



seconded on the thermal paste.  I'm still using the stockers on my 1950s, and the only thing I've done is put some real deal AS5 on 'em.  Before, the heatspreader on the back of the card would be hot to the touch, but now it stays a little warm.  Obviously, the GPU is on the other side of the card - but that heat had to go somewhere . . .


----------



## Duffman (Dec 31, 2007)

Thermal paste has been changed.  I've had three different coolers on these babies already, lol.   lapping is sanding the base to smooth it out correct?  if i can't find a better cooler that works in crossfire, i might try that.

I ran out of AS5 switching cooler configurations around.  I switched the Thermalrights around a couple times trying to get them to work and trying out the VF700alcu's too.


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 31, 2007)

I got Crysis for Christmas and in a few of the more detailed scenes it brings my poor X1950PRO to its knees.  Me no happy.


----------



## grunt_408 (Dec 31, 2007)

Bugger I dont think it works in crossfire yet either.


----------



## Darknova (Dec 31, 2007)

pmcalduff said:


> I got Crysis for Christmas and in a few of the more detailed scenes it brings my poor X1950PRO to its knees.  Me no happy.



It brings my 3870 to it's knees lol.


----------



## pmcalduff (Dec 31, 2007)

Apparently it does okay (not really good but okay) if you have two 8800 Ultras in SLI.


----------



## Duffman (Dec 31, 2007)

Welp, I have yet another set of coolers on the 2900's.  My buddy bought two Zalman ZF1000's for his 8800GT's and they interfere with the SLi bridge.  

They work on the 2900 in Crossfire!  Yipee!!  So if anyone else is looking for a better (quieter) cooling solution for a pair of 2900's, this works well!  Only other thing you need are some extra ramsinks for the memory modules on the top of the card and for the little chips towards the back of the card.


----------



## imperialreign (Dec 31, 2007)

> Bugger I dont think it works in crossfire yet either.



naw . . . still patiently awaiting the Crysis xFire patch


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 31, 2007)

Duffman said:


> Welp, I have yet another set of coolers on the 2900's.  My buddy bought two Zalman ZF1000's for his 8800GT's and they interfere with the SLi bridge.
> 
> They work on the 2900 in Crossfire!  Yipee!!  So if anyone else is looking for a better (quieter) cooling solution for a pair of 2900's, this works well!  Only other thing you need are some extra ramsinks for the memory modules on the top of the card and for the little chips towards the back of the card.



Does it run cooler at all?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 1, 2008)

*Zomg Agp 3850!*

http://www.powercolor.com/Global/products_features.asp?ProductID=1730

Confirmation that the AGP 3850 512 Exists!


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 1, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> http://www.powercolor.com/Global/products_features.asp?ProductID=1730
> 
> Confirmation that the AGP 3850 512 Exists!



Great news 

Some images of my latest projects:

*Bye bye DFI Infinity 975X/G...*






*Victory over acceleroX2!!! Fan mod btw.*









Anyway, moderators/admins, please when you duck over, change the clubhouse title to the X1k-HD3k Clubhouse thanks, I forgot to ask you guys earlier (and I knew I should).

Now back on topic...

I am predicting that my X1950PRO is on the way to heaven, reason being that there is a faint hissing/squeal noise that I can hear when the card is loaded. Moreover, with the VRM units poorly cooled for a majority of the year, they might be about to fail, but I'm comparing them to mosfets in this case however. 

That Fanmod that I did was for fun, it proved to be rather cumbersome and ineffective; having to turn up the fans just to get a decent cooling result was what I didnt like at all. The Accelero gave results in the middle of both fans at max and fans at low.


----------



## ShadowFold (Jan 1, 2008)

Can I join


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 1, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> Can I join



Yep  How quickly do you do your rubix? (fix up those cables!! Shove spares into 5'25 bay!)


----------



## ShadowFold (Jan 1, 2008)

Well tbh I have had it for over a year... yea lets not talk about that now 

They are shoved as far in as they can  that psu has some long freakin cables lol

EDIT: I updated the picture of my case I did a little wire management


----------



## imperialreign (Jan 1, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> Can I join



 Nice way to ring in the new year taking pics of your rig for TPU!!  

BTW - are those PSU cab les really that fat?  or have they been somehow wrapped?


----------



## ShadowFold (Jan 1, 2008)

The 24pin one is massive but the rest are sleeved in a pretty thick material


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 1, 2008)

New Year= Year of Rat, which in turn for me should mean a New BUild from the Alpha software to the zener diode


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 1, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> New Year= Year of Rat, which in turn for me should mean a New BUild from the Alpha software to the zener diode



...

Okay, just updated front page content to be a bit more relevant to the situation at the moment. I'm planning to make another thread to archive some of the information. Changes such as more information about the HD3850/HD3870, and updated information about the R600s, etcetra.

EDIT: Guests viewing, feel free to join TPU, its free and you are more than welcome to be a part of our community


----------



## Duffman (Jan 1, 2008)

Tk, they definately run cooler.  They maxed out at about 60c under load.  I'm really happy they fit.  

Is that a Coolermaster 680 case for that customer's system?

I too have updated pics in my case mod gallery.
Black Knight


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 1, 2008)

Duffman said:


> Tk, they definately run cooler.  They maxed out at about 60c under load.  I'm really happy they fit.
> 
> Is that a Coolermaster 680 case for that customer's system?
> 
> ...



690 not 680


----------



## WakeUpDead (Jan 2, 2008)

May I join? I have just set up my new HD3870s in CF on my X38 board. All H2O C2D rig, with MCW60s on the HD3870's, left the stock copper sinks on, they work great!

 Heres a few pics!


----------



## grunt_408 (Jan 2, 2008)

3870's crossfire mmmmm nice


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 2, 2008)

Didnt have to use same bios on both to make em work properly?


WakeUpDead said:


> May I join? I have just set up my new HD3870s in CF on my X38 board. All H2O C2D rig, with MCW60s on the HD3870's, left the stock copper sinks on, they work great!
> 
> Heres a few pics!


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 2, 2008)

WakeUpDead said:


> May I join? I have just set up my new HD3870s in CF on my X38 board. All H2O C2D rig, with MCW60s on the HD3870's, left the stock copper sinks on, they work great!
> 
> Heres a few pics!



May I please have some images of the whole interior? 

Anwyay, yes you may, but what sort of temperatures do you get out of the WC loop? how much difference are the temps with that W/C block on each of the cards?


----------



## Duffman (Jan 2, 2008)

oh yeah, btw I never really asked to join either.  Is there a initiation or anything?


----------



## Widjaja (Jan 2, 2008)

Duffman said:


> oh yeah, btw I never really asked to join either.  Is there a initiation or anything?



Yeah won't be a moment, all the members have to get thier X1K-HD2K robes on and light thier ceremony candles, then chant the initiation. . . . .


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 2, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Yeah won't be a moment, all the members have to get thier X1K-HD2K robes on and light thier ceremony candles, then chant the initiation. . . . .



^Thats in his imagination. If you want to, I'll add you now duffman.


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (Jan 2, 2008)

anyone got cheap hd3870 links?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 2, 2008)

[I.R.A]_FBi said:


> anyone got cheap hd3870 links?



Look on newegg?


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (Jan 2, 2008)

none on teh egg near msrp.


----------



## ShadowFold (Jan 2, 2008)

> Recommended brands:
> -Sapphire (Tier 1) (PCB construction quality, RMA warranty)
> -Gigabyte (Ultra Durable, good cooling, construction quality)
> -ASUS (ROG edition, good cooling, Company of heroes ftw!)
> -Powercolor (PCS/Extreme, excellent cooling)



Why isnt HIS on thereI had to talk to there suport team and they were really fast and knowlageable. Also who can beat IceQ  also my friend has a VisionTek 3850 and it says Lifetime Warrentie on the box.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 2, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> Why isnt HIS on thereI had to talk to there suport team and they were really fast and knowlageable. Also who can beat IceQ  also my friend has a VisionTek 3850 and it says Lifetime Warrentie on the box.



IceQIII is a good cooler, but not the best


----------



## Duffman (Jan 3, 2008)

Beauty TK!  Time to go grab one of the signature images.


----------



## Duffman (Jan 3, 2008)

hmmmm, there aren't any 2900 signature images...


----------



## imperialreign (Jan 3, 2008)

> hmmmm, there aren't any 2900 signature images...



I can make one this weekend if anyone wants one . . . also one for the two 3800 cards . . . 

I made a 1950XT(X?) siggie a while back, Darknova was using it in his sig for the longest while . . . I've also done a couple for craigle

let me know . . .


----------



## Duffman (Jan 3, 2008)

that would be great.  I'm sure the 38XX folks would be grateful also


----------



## Widjaja (Jan 3, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> ^Thats in his imagination. If you want to, I'll add you now duffman.



Lol
I hope you didn't take it seriously.
Also didn't see you are rather new here.


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (Jan 3, 2008)

my 7900GS is all but sold ... hd3870 here i cummm


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 3, 2008)

Hellya, Lexy Pacific Corp just sent me the RMA for the HIS Pro, time to ship off tomorrow


----------



## grunt_408 (Jan 3, 2008)

Another HIS bites the dust!


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 3, 2008)

this is the one i bought back in February, started having Problems in September, i put off RMA for awhile, finally shipping it.


----------



## Darknova (Jan 3, 2008)

Duffman said:


> that would be great.  I'm sure the 38XX folks would be grateful also



I want a 3870 sig!!!


----------



## grunt_408 (Jan 3, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> this is the one i bought back in February, started having Problems in September, i put off RMA for awhile, finally shipping it.



My old HIS gave it up within weeks after that and reading other problems about them I now refuse to buy HIS. My Sapphire is a good card cooling is the only let down.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 3, 2008)

I do have a HD2900XT sig pic... its somewhere... I'll look around my PC. Time to make a HD3850/HD3870 one. May you guys please find me a clean and good image of a reference HD3870 and a HD3850?


----------



## Duffman (Jan 3, 2008)

here's a decent 3870


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Jan 3, 2008)

just got my his 3850 256mb today,here is my 06 score with the card stock.


----------



## Duffman (Jan 3, 2008)

nice, is the rest of your system oc'd?  you should definately be able to break 10k with some overclocking on the card.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Jan 3, 2008)

My chip is at 3,6ghz and my ram is at 900 1:1 4.4.4.12.

Its not a bad score,the best i got out of my 1950 pro was 6k.


----------



## Duffman (Jan 3, 2008)

definately be able to break 10k with a lil overclocking on the card.

I'm at 16k with my setup.


----------



## Ben Clarke (Jan 3, 2008)

I guess I can join, now I have my HD3850...


----------



## imperialreign (Jan 3, 2008)

> I do have a HD2900XT sig pic... its somewhere... I'll look around my PC. Time to make a HD3850/HD3870 one. May you guys please find me a clean and good image of a reference HD3870 and a HD3850?



that's cool, then - by all means if you want to take care of them, no problem!  If you'd like, though, I could possibly work one up for one of the cards - or if you'd like one for the 2400 and 2600, I could do that, too.  Thought I'd offer some help, as 4-6 sigs could be a bit of a handful all at once


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Jan 4, 2008)

Whats the best program to oc a 3850? I tried ccc but it just kept crashing,it went up to 759 on the core and 2204 for the ram.


----------



## Darknova (Jan 4, 2008)

tigger69 said:


> Whats the best program to oc a 3850? I tried ccc but it just kept crashing,it went up to 759 on the core and 2204 for the ram.



Pray to the ATi Gods! lol.

I really don't know. I tried overclocking my 3870 but it wouldn't set the clocks


----------



## sneekypeet (Jan 4, 2008)

tigger69 said:


> Whats the best program to oc a 3850? I tried ccc but it just kept crashing,it went up to 759 on the core and 2204 for the ram.



Try rivatuner2.06 as it worked will on the 3870's


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Jan 4, 2008)

I did try it thanks,it just dont seem to have the test clocks button,i just have to apply it and pray.

preliminarily i got the clocks to-

core-750mhz
mem-900mhz


----------



## Wile E (Jan 4, 2008)

tigger69 said:


> I did try it thanks,it just dont seem to have the test clocks button,i just have to apply it and pray.


You could still use the furry cube for stability and heat testing.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Jan 4, 2008)

Does any version of atitool work properly on a 3850 then?

thanks wile e


----------



## Wile E (Jan 4, 2008)

tigger69 said:


> Does any version of atitool work properly on a 3850 then?
> 
> thanks wile e


I would stick to .27 b3, just to be safe.


----------



## ShadowFold (Jan 4, 2008)

Rivatuner 2.07 lets me get to 800mhz core 942mem and i've tested them for 2 days straight.


----------



## WakeUpDead (Jan 4, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> May I please have some images of the whole interior?
> 
> Anwyay, yes you may, but what sort of temperatures do you get out of the WC loop? how much difference are the temps with that W/C block on each of the cards?




I get 33c idle and 38c load on Top card and I get 31c idle and 37c load bottom card, both set @ 805/1347(2.7ghz!)thats all on CCC, I havent installed ATItool or anything really, I been running alot of OCs first before I install all my software, may need a XP reinstall at some point you know. Anyhow 75f room temp when I took all these readings! CPU's; E6850 runs 31c/44c @3600mhz and my Q6600 ran about the same on the p35 so I would think the same for this board too. NB runs the hottest at 40c/48c(hate to think what it would be if I air cooled it), but all in all they are good temps to me. 

 I just spent a year saving for this rig, I wanted the best H2O first off, so the LianLi Cube 343B case, with the Magicool 9x120mm RAD, and 3 pumps was as close as I could get without going into Phase Change or a Chiller units(may tackle it soon)! I did take off the Volt Reg H2O block, I didnt really need it on the p35 so I figured I wouldnt on my X38 either. So I have blocks on the; CPU, RAM(OCZ Flex), NB, SB, GPUx2, and all one loop with a res. too. I have MCW60s on the GPUs but I have EK full blocks on there way from EK(could be a week or more)

I think these pics are from my P35 right before I switch to the x38! I dont have an pics of either build, I should have(DUH), and I need to take some of the right side also, pumps, tubes, wires, lights and window too, just not as neat looking! Let me know what you think, I know its a bit overboard but I figured I can always remove stuff, its harder to add, so there you go.

As for "Same BIOS", I just popped them in(HD3870's), it started right up and I enabled CF in CCC, so Im not sure what your saying about that?

Here are More pics though!

thanks


----------



## Duffman (Jan 4, 2008)

that's a pretty darn cool case.  Never saw it before.  Nice setup!

have you posted that in the case mod gallery?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 4, 2008)

Duffman said:


> here's a decent 3870



No labels please


----------



## Duffman (Jan 5, 2008)

oh shure, make it difficult!

Photoshop FTW!!


----------



## ShadowFold (Jan 5, 2008)

BTW That is the stock design, I know, my uncle works at ATi he confirmed it.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 6, 2008)

Shadowfold, how about if you post some pics of your HIS HD3850? I'd like to see how it looks like.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Jan 6, 2008)

mines a his 3850 too,tk


----------



## Duffman (Jan 6, 2008)

i'm sure it'd be ok if you post pics as well!


----------



## Apocalypsee (Jan 6, 2008)

I would like to ask something, between HD 3850 and 2nd hand HD 2900XT, which one should I go? I play games at 1280x960, with a CoolerMaster iGreen 500W PSU


----------



## Duffman (Jan 6, 2008)

With your system specs, i would probably get a 3850


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 6, 2008)

Craigleberry, whats odd is the Sapphire board i had bit the dust within 3 days, POST Problems even in another motherboard, the PSU was over capable of running the card. I just hope when i get the New board it will be based on the 1950GT, but with the sapphire AGP 3850 and Powercolor 3850 AGP i may end up selling both 1950s and go for the 3850, hey it will get me in the door with DX10, Possibly a Vista Upgrade too on a Athlon XP 2500 lolz


----------



## ShadowFold (Jan 6, 2008)

Some reason my pics came out SUPER high res so I will just post links

http://img.techpowerup.org/080106/Picture025.jpg

http://img.techpowerup.org/080106/Picture026.jpg

http://img.techpowerup.org/080106/Picture027.jpg

http://img.techpowerup.org/080106/Picture028.jpg

http://img.techpowerup.org/080106/Picture029.jpg

http://img.techpowerup.org/080106/Picture030.jpg


----------



## Darknova (Jan 6, 2008)

Shame the links don't work.


----------



## ShadowFold (Jan 6, 2008)

I will use image shack one sec..


----------



## ShadowFold (Jan 6, 2008)

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5944/picture025xu1.jpg

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3959/picture026hr9.jpg

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1392/picture027bt0.jpg

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5558/picture029sc3.jpg

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5334/picture030zf2.jpg

There they all are. Again sorry bout the high res I might have messed it up when changing the settings on my cam.


----------



## WakeUpDead (Jan 6, 2008)

Duffman said:


> that's a pretty darn cool case.  Never saw it before.  Nice setup!
> 
> have you posted that in the case mod gallery?




Thanks alot! Um they are fairly new, this past summer I think. Very spendy but this will be the last case I buy for some time(2yrs+). I think they run about $350$400 stock, anything extra like windows, 5 1/4 Bay fan addapters or HDD bay converters, all cost extra! It was alot bigger then I though, but light for its size! But for me thats good, I have big hands and I find it hard to fit all my hardware plus my hands in a full-tower anyhow! 

For that price I think it should have come with, removable MOBO tray(would have been nice), tool-less bays(would think so, Not) and should have come with a few extras(HDD converters,window, something!) I built this system around the case in a way!

Ive got some pictures I can put in the case gallery, but Im going to take more tonight along with my work area, and Ill try to post them ASAP. Ill let you know when Im done!

Thanks again, for the nice words, Im glad you like it!


----------



## Duffman (Jan 6, 2008)

It looks rather large


----------



## WakeUpDead (Jan 6, 2008)

It is! Though I do like that its big. 

I have it on top of a double drawer filing cabinet, I just thought it would have fit, thats all! It hangs over the side about 2" on boths sides, however the wheels sit about 3" in from the sides, so it works out good!

It makes me think of the "WHOPPER" from, "War Games"! 

WOULD YOU LIKE TO PLAY A GAME? 

Man that shows my age bad, doesnt it! LOL


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (Jan 6, 2008)

f X2's are beign released in Jan 2008, isnt paying 249 for a 3870 a bit much?


----------



## Steevo (Jan 6, 2008)

I can has a HD3870.



Benchmarks proving this are in another thread, as well as I can post a GPU-z validation.



I have had the core to 855 stable using ATI's CCC, and ATITool to push fan speed to 65% and memory to 1250 as I see no need to push it further. It is a Sapphire 512MB.


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (Jan 6, 2008)

stock cooling?


----------



## Steevo (Jan 6, 2008)

Yes.


I can't seem to run GTA:SA with my new card, it starts, then it exits, never entering the game. Anyone else?


----------



## Sydneyboi (Jan 7, 2008)

Ive got an Asus HD3850 ROG TOP Edition 512mb non crossfire, what tools should i go about overclocking it futher? btw can i join this club.


----------



## ShadowFold (Jan 7, 2008)

Sydneyboi said:


> Ive got an Asus HD3850 ROG TOP Edition 512mb non crossfire, what tools should i go about overclocking it futher? btw can i join this club.



You should try and get the fan going faster, dl rivatuner and change the speed around till you get good temps. Or buy an aftermarket cooler and use that.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 7, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> You should try and get the fan going faster, dl rivatuner and change the speed around till you get good temps. Or buy an aftermarket cooler and use that.



Already has aftermarket i think... gets like 36*C idle and 45*C load... from a review.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Jan 7, 2008)

Mines idleing at 21c atm,its a tad cool here tho'.nice temp tho' VF900 ftw


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 8, 2008)

okay I'm going to wipe the VF700s off the recommended cooler list for the X1950PRO... reason being that my X1950PRO hits like 65*C on load... not exactly good. (By the way i didnt buy a new one...) Looks like I'll need a VF900 Fatal1ty.. hmm silverish cooler... goes nice with the rest of my system imho.


----------



## Sydneyboi (Jan 8, 2008)

Wat about the thermalright hr-01gt or the thermaltake duorb ,there suppose to be really good. cozz personally i reckon Fatal1ty products are overated.


----------



## Darknova (Jan 8, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> okay I'm going to wipe the VF700s off the recommended cooler list for the X1950PRO... reason being that my X1950PRO hits like 65*C on load... not exactly good. (By the way i didnt buy a new one...) Looks like I'll need a VF900 Fatal1ty.. hmm silverish cooler... goes nice with the rest of my system imho.



Am I the only one that finds a fault with that?

65'C is a good load temp for a GPU which runs a LOT hotter than a CPU. If you said you were getting 65'C load on a CPU then yeah, I would switch to a better cooler, but on a GPU? Damn those things can take in excess of 100'C for extended periods of time.

My Passively cooled overclocked 3870 reaches 65'C under load and that's a bloody good temp.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 8, 2008)

Darknova said:


> Am I the only one that finds a fault with that?
> 
> 65'C is a good load temp for a GPU which runs a LOT hotter than a CPU. If you said you were getting 65'C load on a CPU then yeah, I would switch to a better cooler, but on a GPU? Damn those things can take in excess of 100'C for extended periods of time.
> 
> My Passively cooled overclocked 3870 reaches 65'C under load and that's a bloody good temp.



Might just be the case with my card being somewhat ancient... I havent cooled any RAM thus, might be the memory overheating... However, the VF700 is okay. But not recommended, if you look at the AcceleroS1 or X2, their prices are at the moment around the same as the VF700s, and the Acceleros do far better anyway. (Admitedly, the AcceleroX2's bearing starts dying on average in around half a year).


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Jan 8, 2008)

My mate got a fatality 88000gts 320mb,boy did i lol at him,it cost nearly twice as much as my 3850 whiich beats it in 3d06.

Just get a normal vf900cu if you get one.The fatality stuff is just marketing crap.


----------



## imperialreign (Jan 8, 2008)

> The fatality stuff is just marketing crap.





yep.  Most hardware/peripherals with that moniker could've had a much better name if the developers were a little more imaginative.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 8, 2008)

tigger69 said:


> My mate got a fatality 88000gts 320mb,boy did i lol at him,it cost nearly twice as much as my 3850 whiich beats it in 3d06.
> 
> Just get a normal vf900cu if you get one.The fatality stuff is just marketing crap.



Two stores, fatal1ty is cheaper... one more thing the fatal1ty is nickel plated as well as having a nice red LED, and a faster spinning fan... I hate corrosion by the way... Damn apparently, powercolor uses hynix chips for their X1950PROs... explains why they runs so warm compared to the samsung/infineons.  See, the Fatal1ty can be purchased for $45 AUD, at one store while at the other the VF900CU by itself is $50... 

The RAM heatpads took like more than an hour to remove as well =_=, I'm probably not going to purcahse the fatal1ty and just buy two packs of heatsinks for the RAM.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Jan 9, 2008)

Fair do's if its actually cheaper than the normal version.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 9, 2008)

Sydneyboi said:


> Wat about the thermalright hr-01gt or the thermaltake duorb ,there suppose to be really good. cozz personally i reckon Fatal1ty products are overated.



Yeah I know they are good; price? Not good.


----------



## grunt_408 (Jan 9, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> Craigleberry, whats odd is the Sapphire board i had bit the dust within 3 days, POST Problems even in another motherboard, the PSU was over capable of running the card. I just hope when i get the New board it will be based on the 1950GT, but with the sapphire AGP 3850 and Powercolor 3850 AGP i may end up selling both 1950s and go for the 3850, hey it will get me in the door with DX10, Possibly a Vista Upgrade too on a Athlon XP 2500 lolz



That is the only thing that I am peeved about is I am behind ATM with no DX10


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Jan 9, 2008)

I tried my 3850 last night on hellgate london in dx10 mode,it runs fine(crysis dx10 pah) and looks lovely.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 9, 2008)

[/omg] Too bad HD3870X2s cant do quadfire... imagine they could though....bye bye nvidia's king perf crown.


----------



## Widjaja (Jan 9, 2008)

Quad Crossfire with this monitor sounds good.


----------



## Danzo (Jan 10, 2008)

*2900 PRO 256 Bit??*

A Moderator recommended me to this forum to see if I could get some help. I just recently purchased a HD 2900 PRO 512mb 256Bit card that I assumed would have been the 512Bit version but Voilla it is 256 Bit (Intentions were to flash to XT). Anyways my question is has anyone been able to overclock this with Windows Vista? Riva tuner does not recognize the drivers and therefore will not work. Ati tools will not work because of Vista and ATI tray tools just sits there and gives me the default clock speed and also will not adjust. AMD Guru gives me BSOD. There is no option even in the CCC for overdrive. I have been reading for 2 days on how to do this and I am stumped. Any help is appreciated. I am new at Video Card Overclocking and would like to get out of the 7000 range on 3d Mark 06  






Thanks,
Dan

My system is:
E6750 Running at 3.2
2 Gig Adata Extreme
Eagle Tech 700 Watts PSU
TT Armor case
TT MAX ORB 2
1 SATA HDD
1 SATA DVD
Windows Vista 32


----------



## imperialreign (Jan 10, 2008)

Well, if the card doesn't support hardware monitoring (which, according to my run-ins with ATI tech support, the card must be listed as an 'XT' model for hardware monitoring) - CCC won't allow Overdrive.

here - give ATI Tool 0.27 beta3 a try: http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=45596


----------



## Danzo (Jan 10, 2008)

Thanks for the advice I had tried that version as well. It detects card temps but when I try to make adjustments it just defaults back to its preset clock speed. Grrr! how frustrating. It also looks like several others have the same problem as well with that version. Do you have any other ideas?


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Jan 10, 2008)

I'm glad i put the vf900 on my 3850,the stock cooler was causing my card to lock up in games.It does'nt seem to have any control of the stock fan speed at all,it seems it was staying at low speed even in games.The temp never seems to go over 50c now.


----------



## imperialreign (Jan 10, 2008)

Just to make sure - do you have the Hotkey Poller enabled?

I get the feeling it's Vista related (sorry to say); best I can figure from dredging through the ATI Tool beta threads would be to try and install beta4: http://www.majorgeeks.com/download4109.html and then copy the ATItool.exe from beta 1: http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=560214&postcount=140

not sure if that'll work for you or now - but it seems to clear up similar issues for other beta users.  Hopefully, someone else will pop in here that has a better idea of what's going on.


----------



## Dangle (Jan 10, 2008)

Ok, HD DVD is getting whooped and I'm going to be forced to ditch the HD DVD clubhouse pretty soon since there will be no HD DVD to have a club devoted to.  I own a 2900XT and am an ATI fanboy.  I would like to join this club.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 10, 2008)

Dangle said:


> Ok, HD DVD is getting whooped and I'm going to be forced to ditch the HD DVD clubhouse pretty soon since there will be no HD DVD to have a club devoted to.  I own a 2900XT and am an ATI fanboy.  I would like to join this club.



Yep you can


----------



## Wile E (Jan 10, 2008)

@Danzo - Have you tried the AMD GPU Clock Tool? No voltage adjustments, but it might let you at least clock it a little.

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/536/AMD_GPU_Clock_Tool_v0.7.html

If all else fails, can you exchange the card?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 11, 2008)

lol acceleroS1... how can I say it.... is FUCKING AWESOME! Damn silent, blows my AcceleroX2 out of the water in terms of performance, and is very cheap as well! Man, my PC is... almost virtually silent, only one more thing... *attatches fanmate* done.


----------



## Darknova (Jan 11, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> lol acceleroS1... how can I say it.... is FUCKING AWESOME! Damn silent, blows my AcceleroX2 out of the water in terms of performance, and is very cheap as well! Man, my PC is... almost virtually silent, only one more thing... *attatches fanmate* done.



Haha, it's awesome is it not? Keeps my overclocked 3870 at 40'C idle, and never breaks 55'c under load.


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## tkpenalty (Jan 11, 2008)

Darknova said:


> Haha, it's awesome is it not? Keeps my overclocked 3870 at 40'C idle, and never breaks 55'c under load.





I think we should have a slower version of that emoticon, being more animated XD. I'll post photos of the updated build later... looks really sweet


----------



## Dangle (Jan 11, 2008)

You guys checked Futuremark hall of fame?  2900XT holds the top 10 highest '06 scores.


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## tkpenalty (Jan 11, 2008)

Dangle said:


> You guys checked Futuremark hall of fame?  2900XT holds the top 10 highest '06 scores.



It IS a beast in 3DMarks for sure...


----------



## TonyStark (Jan 11, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> It IS a beast with AA & AF turned off...



*fixed


----------



## AciDCooL (Jan 12, 2008)

Highest I get on air cooling:


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 12, 2008)

Sigh... I'm in a rather irky mood atm so please dont be offended. But guys, refrain from those ridiculously short posts that are one word. Such as "fixed", there is absolutely no need to type something like that. 



> So guys... yes, as of late I've noticed a small and faint hissing noise, emmited from the rear of the X1950PRO (thanks to my cooling equipment being quieter and quieter...). Its that one choke, for sure on the rear of the card. Anyway, my question is, what does a hissing ferrite choke mean to my X1950PRO? Its a SMD by the way.
> 
> A rather tiny one too, only around 1mm tall and around 2mm wide and 3mm long (guessing), it has an exposed coil which is covered by a thin layer of film.
> 
> EDIT: What does a hissing ferrite choke do to the voltage as well?



http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?p=607021#post607021 Thread's here. I'm afraid my X1950PRO MAY be on its last legs. Any electronics experts here?


----------



## DaMulta (Jan 12, 2008)

My new chrome Maze4 will be here today.(Should I didn't know FedEX delivered on Sat.)

Should I cut the side out of the stock cooler and place the block where the original copper was?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 14, 2008)

lol guys... sorry to break this to you but I'm switching to a 8800GT 512MB very soon - BUT that doesnt anything to the clubhouse! I'll keep my X1950PRO here.


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## Darknova (Jan 14, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> lol guys... sorry to break this to you but I'm switching to a 8800GT 512MB very soon - BUT that doesnt anything to the clubhouse! I'll keep my X1950PRO here.



Get him guys!!! lol


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 14, 2008)

Or should I get a HD3870...


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## Darknova (Jan 14, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Or should I get a HD3870...



3870!!! I love mine


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## tkpenalty (Jan 14, 2008)

Nah 8800... shorter PCB more performance.


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## Boneface (Jan 14, 2008)

I just got my sapphire HD3850 512 can i join? lol. I did have a 7800gt extreme and what a difference, love it


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## Wile E (Jan 14, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> lol guys... sorry to break this to you but I'm switching to a 8800GT 512MB very soon - BUT that doesnt anything to the clubhouse! I'll keep my X1950PRO here.


lol. I already switched to a Palit 8800GT 1GB. Still have my 2900, but this Palit blows it away.


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## ShadowFold (Jan 14, 2008)

TK get a HD 3870! It runs alot cooler and you only get more frames if you have a QX9550 at 6ghz anyway..


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## imperialreign (Jan 14, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> lol guys... sorry to break this to you but I'm switching to a 8800GT 512MB very soon - BUT that doesnt anything to the clubhouse! I'll keep my X1950PRO here.



treason?!


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## peach1971 (Jan 14, 2008)

Anyone here already owning a HIS HD 3850 IceQ 3 Turbo (X)?
Turbo: 720/1820(910)MHz, Turbo X:735/1960(980)MHz






How about the OC headroom on these cards?


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## ShadowFold (Jan 14, 2008)

peach1971 said:


> Anyone here already owning a HIS HD 3850 IceQ 3 Turbo (X)?
> Turbo: 720/1820(910)MHz, Turbo X:735/1960(980)MHz
> 
> 
> ...



I have the Turbo HIS IceQ 3850 512mb

I have mine at 786core and 998mem 24/7 stable.


----------



## peach1971 (Jan 14, 2008)

What about your temps and fan sound?


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## ShadowFold (Jan 14, 2008)

At 100% fan speed its not silent but its about as loud as my old 7600GS at 20%. I can sleep with the fan on 100% lol. Temps are up to 45C under full load and around 34-29c depending on the day.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jan 14, 2008)

I've just done the vmod on my 3850,my 3d vgpu is now 1.36v and it benches at 790 upto now,am gonna try higher shortly.


----------



## ShadowFold (Jan 14, 2008)

http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/7h2wd/ 

Heres my GPUZ-Validation. BTW it says my mem is at 936 for some reason... wtf rivatuner and ati tool say 998mhz


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## ShadowFold (Jan 14, 2008)

lol I havent touched my voltages once.


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## peach1971 (Jan 14, 2008)

Cheapest price here 182.08 EUR = 270.72 US$. 
How much did you pay for that HIS Radeon HD 3850 IceQ Turbo in the US?


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## ShadowFold (Jan 14, 2008)

I payed 220$ with a 20$ rebate that I got 2 weeks later. I would still pay that much for it tho, with my slow ass X2 4200+ 2.2ghz I can still play everygame on max settings at 1440x900.


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## peach1971 (Jan 15, 2008)

Okay, that´s it: 
Gigabyte MA790X-DS4, Brisbane 5000+ BE and HIS Radeon HD 3850 IceQ Turbo: Get ready for shipping!


----------



## ShadowFold (Jan 15, 2008)

Nice! I know that from now on I will not buy a card unless it has IceQ it freaking owns


----------



## thegave (Jan 15, 2008)

My X1950Pro AGP arrived today... Can I join the club please?

Got my core up to 654MHz... Don't think it's temps holding me back, can anyone point me in the direction of a pencil voltmod for Sapphire X1950Pro 512mb AGP? It's the one with two molex connectors. I've been looking high and low and can't find any for that specific card.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 15, 2008)

thegave said:


> My X1950Pro AGP arrived today... Can I join the club please?
> 
> Got my core up to 654MHz... Don't think it's temps holding me back, can anyone point me in the direction of a pencil voltmod for Sapphire X1950Pro 512mb AGP? It's the one with two molex connectors. I've been looking high and low and can't find any for that specific card.



Yep you can. I'd replace the cooling, but in your case the cooling isnt holding you back at all.


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## tkpenalty (Jan 15, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> TK get a HD 3870! It runs alot cooler and you only get more frames if you have a QX9550 at 6ghz anyway..





lol. More frames on an 8800GT plz. Need more arguments than that.


----------



## Wile E (Jan 15, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> lol. More frames on an 8800GT plz. Need more arguments than that.


I can't say anything bad about either the 3870, or my Palit 8800GT.

Well, I can say one bad thing about the 3870 (and my 2900, for that matter), once you enable AA, it falls on it's face. Whereas the 8800GT and 3870 trade blows with no AA, the 8800 walks away once it's enabled. So I guess the big question is, do you like AA?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 15, 2008)

Yeah I love AA... jaggies make me scream.


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## Darknova (Jan 15, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> lol. More frames on an 8800GT plz. Need more arguments than that.



As as been shown in a number of Crysis benchmarks. the 3870 is much more stable with it's FPS, much less fluctuation. the 8800 has higher max FPS, but drops to levels lower than the 3870.
It draws less power.
GDDR4 (less power again).
Potential for Crossfire X

Any frames over 60fps is just about making your e-peen bigger lol.


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## tkpenalty (Jan 15, 2008)

Darknova said:


> As as been shown in a number of Crysis benchmarks. the 3870 is much more stable with it's FPS, much less fluctuation. the 8800 has higher max FPS, but drops to levels lower than the 3870.
> It draws less power.
> GDDR4 (less power again).
> Potential for Crossfire X
> ...



not convincing enough


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## Widjaja (Jan 15, 2008)

Instead of higher than noticable fps GPU manufacturers should all be aiming for steady 60fps.


----------



## miamimuscleboy (Jan 15, 2008)

Hey . check my pics on gallery crossfired 2900s at 18002 3dmark 06 , Took forever to get these F---kers working but an x38 mobo finally destroyed my 8800gts512 benchmarks !


----------



## miamimuscleboy (Jan 15, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> not convincing enough


Fix your settings in crysis they are very picky I run 30+ fps alll VH settings except post proc at High 2,2900s on asus maximus beats my 8800 GTS 512 GLH Gainward by at least 20 to 30 %


----------



## thegave (Jan 15, 2008)

I already have an Accelero X2 waiting in the wings, just wanted to see how far I could get out of the box.

After posting I got my mem up to 756MHz so I tried upping core and it did 661/756 stable for half an hour on artifact scanner (max temp about 67, so it dropped oddly enough) and an hour or so of San Andreas, which I've always found to be a very artifact-sensitive game (compared to Source based games). 

I received some very discouraging posts over in the X1950Pro Experiences poll/thread about how limited the overclocking headroom is on the X1950 but from the numbers I've seen and personal experience so bollocks to that. I'm fairly confident my card could hit 700 core with the X2 and some extra juice. Temps haven't increased at all from 580 to 661...

Pleeeease help me with the voltmod!

Also, yesterday was the first time I'd ever played a game with AA enabled and my god it was so weird having these beautifully straight lines. I had to stop and stare at the guns for a while in TF2 because they just looked so odd.


----------



## Darknova (Jan 15, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> not convincing enough



Then get the 8800. Sorry but if you need to look for a reason to get one over the other then you obviously don't want that one.

You see you've taken the main factor out of the equation (in your other thread) the price.

I got my 3870 for £130, the cheapest 512Mb 8800GT I've found is £180 (there will be cheaper but probably no-name or brands I wouldn't touch.

For me, the price and the smaller power draw was all I needed to convince me the 3870 was the one I wanted, oh and the possibility of Xfire at a later date.

But it's obvious to anyone who reads both these threads you have no interest in either of those reasons, or as you put it, "aren't convincing enough". So get the 8800.

It's really that simple to be honest.


----------



## Wile E (Jan 15, 2008)

miamimuscleboy said:


> Hey . check my pics on gallery crossfired 2900s at 18002 3dmark 06 , Took forever to get these F---kers working but an x38 mobo finally destroyed my 8800gts512 benchmarks !


That's also 2 cards vs 1 card. I score over 16k on a single 8800GT, and I haven't even done any voltmods to it.


----------



## imperialreign (Jan 15, 2008)

miamimuscleboy said:


> Fix your settings in crysis they are very picky I run 30+ fps alll VH settings except post proc at High 2,2900s on asus maximus beats my 8800 GTS 512 GLH Gainward by at least 20 to 30 %



defi possible - after being quite a bit dismayed at any performance "improvement" with the Crysis 1.1 patch - I swear, I saw 0-1FPS improvement, but a noticeable drop in image quality - I dipped into the guide over at TweakGuides.com, and was able to not only fix some of the IQ irritations, but bump it to an average 30FPS+ with my 2 1950s at 1280x1024.


I just get the feeling, though, that something is defi not right with Crysis and ATI hardare - perhaps it's just me


----------



## ShadowFold (Jan 15, 2008)

I still say go with the HD 3870 like Darknova, any fps over 60 just makes your e-peen bigger. Plus there are so many reasons the HD 3870 is better, yea it doesnt run as fast but as others said it runs alot cooler and has HUGE room for OCing and is cheaper.


----------



## imperialreign (Jan 15, 2008)

plus, DX10.1 - if it really matters to ya


----------



## ShadowFold (Jan 15, 2008)

If it was DX9 I would still buy the HD 3870 over the 8800GT.. the failure rate is retarded high and I dont think you can OC it much.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 16, 2008)

lol guys, too late to convince me. All your arguments are unfortunately invalid in my position. Anyways, back to the topic, I have to reinstall the AcceleroX2 onto my X1950PRO... apparently the RAM doesnt like getting warm, the AcceleroS1 doesnt do a great job of cooling the RAM at all. Now I see why powercolor had to downclock the AcceleroS1 just to get it to be stable.

Hynix chips run so hot


----------



## grunt_408 (Jan 16, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> lol guys, too late to convince me. All your arguments are unfortunately invalid in my position. Anyways, back to the topic, I have to reinstall the AcceleroX2 onto my X1950PRO... apparently the RAM doesnt like getting warm, the AcceleroS1 doesnt do a great job of cooling the RAM at all. Now I see why powercolor had to downclock the AcceleroS1 just to get it to be stable.
> 
> Hynix chips run so hot



Bugger I hate it when you do something only find out after you do it it dosnt work....  That is why I come on this forum to try and avoid making them mistakes unless of course you are the first to make that particular mistake.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 16, 2008)

Craigleberry said:


> Bugger I hate it when you do something only find out after you do it it dosnt work....  That is why I come on this forum to try and avoid making them mistakes unless of course you are the first to make that particular mistake.



Nah its not a mistake, i just have to ramp that 120mm fan (look at my case gallery, check the "Tkpenalty's [Q1 2008]) to max for the RAM to be cooled properly. I could always just tie the fan onto the acceleroS1 but that wont be necessary soon when I get the 8800GT.


----------



## imperialreign (Jan 16, 2008)

hynix chips might run hot - but they're reliable.  I guess you gotta give a little to take a little, huh?

So, you're not going to use the Accelero on the 8800?  Wouldn't it fit, though?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 16, 2008)

Yes I will use the AcceleroS1 on the 8800, of course! I'll make sure that I get my hands on the turbo modules before I do anything.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 16, 2008)

Dont samsung memory chips tend to run cooler than the rest like hynix or quimonda?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 16, 2008)

so i guess your done with ATI for now then huh? Ya i found out its not worth jumping on every board that comes out, your better off skipping a Generation or 2, for example, People going from a 8800 Ultra to a 9800 GX2 are not going to get the greatest experience as a person going from a 7950GT to a 9800GX2


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 16, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> so i guess your done with ATI for now then huh? Ya i found out its not worth jumping on every board that comes out, your better off skipping a Generation or 2, for example, People going from a 8800 Ultra to a 9800 GX2 are not going to get the greatest experience as a person going from a 7950GT to a 9800GX2



lol. Period. Stop talking about me and the 8800. Pretend I still use my X1950PRO


----------



## thegave (Jan 16, 2008)

I saw a huuge difference jumping from my MR9700 to the X1950Pro.

=) Reading what tk wrote makes me really happy I chose the X2 over the S1.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 16, 2008)

thegave said:


> I saw a huuge difference jumping from my MR9700 to the X1950Pro.
> 
> =) Reading what tk wrote makes me really happy I chose the X2 over the S1.



Actually S1 > X2 Bigtime in terms of core cooling. If your GPU manufacturer uses hot running memory chips then its a different story...


----------



## thegave (Jan 17, 2008)

oh whaaat? =\

but looking at the ac website the temps say the X2 cool 2'C lower than the S2.

I don't actually know how hot my memory chips run. Pretty hot I think...

How is the S2 better? bigger sink?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 17, 2008)

Yes its bigger, in my case the AcceleroS1 performs like a beast compared to the X2.


----------



## thegave (Jan 17, 2008)

=(

Why did you just say on the previous post that the S1 wasn't doing so well?  Your ram started heating up?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 17, 2008)

thegave said:


> =(
> 
> Why did you just say on the previous post that the S1 wasn't doing so well?  Your ram started heating up?



Yes the RAM isnt being cooled well, but the Core is cooled well.


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (Jan 17, 2008)

does this fit the hd3850?


----------



## ShadowFold (Jan 17, 2008)

[I.R.A]_FBi said:


> does this fit the hd3850?



Probly, but why dont you get the HD 3850 IceQ?


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (Jan 17, 2008)

i dunno im jsut hung up .. plus my 7900GS wont get sold ...


----------



## ShadowFold (Jan 17, 2008)

[I.R.A]_FBi said:


> i dunno im jsut hung up .. plus my 7900GS wont get sold ...



Yea my 7600GS doesnt seem to want to sell either :shadedshu

I highly reccomend the IceQ from HIS tho.


----------



## Widjaja (Jan 17, 2008)

What?
No one in Jamacia wants a 7900GS?


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (Jan 17, 2008)

Nope, the only seem to want 6200's and 8600GT's and 7300's and x1650's


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (Jan 17, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> Yea my 7600GS doesnt seem to want to sell either :shadedshu
> 
> I highly reccomend the IceQ from HIS tho.



after reading this i realise its not much better than stock ...


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 17, 2008)

[I.R.A]_FBi said:


> Nope, the only seem to want 6200's and 8600GT's and 7300's and x1650's



Um... that TMG AT2 VGA cooler, i doubt fits the HD3850


----------



## Darknova (Jan 17, 2008)

Ok....I really don't like the S1 anymore....I keep getting BSOD's after extended periods of gaming even at stock settings. And yes, I have good airflow over it, but the bastard just doesn't seem to want to let go of heat.

Think I'm going to get a Zalman VF900....if only the Accelero X2 would fit the 3870...


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 17, 2008)

Darknova said:


> Ok....I really don't like the S1 anymore....I keep getting BSOD's after extended periods of gaming even at stock settings. And yes, I have good airflow over it, but the bastard just doesn't seem to want to let go of heat.
> 
> Think I'm going to get a Zalman VF900....if only the Accelero X2 would fit the 3870...



VF900CU is worse. Um, take a photo of your setup. You NEED a 120mm fan or the turbo modules.


----------



## Wile E (Jan 17, 2008)

Darknova said:


> Ok....I really don't like the S1 anymore....I keep getting BSOD's after extended periods of gaming even at stock settings. And yes, I have good airflow over it, but the bastard just doesn't seem to want to let go of heat.
> 
> Think I'm going to get a Zalman VF900....if only the Accelero X2 would fit the 3870...



Do you have a fan bolted directly to the Accelero? If not, I suggest doing so asap. You'll be amazed at the temp differences. Any 80, 92, or 120mm fans you have laying around would probably work like a charm.


----------



## Darknova (Jan 17, 2008)

Wile E said:


> Do you have a fan bolted directly to the Accelero? If not, I suggest doing so asap. You'll be amazed at the temp differences. Any 80, 92, or 120mm fans you have laying around would probably work like a charm.



Strapped an old 92mm Arctic Cooling fan too it last night...still not impressed by the performance...the card is literally holding the heat in.

Going to try putting my old Accelero X2 on it tonight see if that makes a difference, or if I do in fact have a faulty card.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 17, 2008)

Darknova said:


> Strapped an old 92mm Arctic Cooling fan too it last night...still not impressed by the performance...the card is literally holding the heat in.
> 
> Going to try putting my old Accelero X2 on it tonight see if that makes a difference, or if I do in fact have a faulty card.



As I already asked, photo of your setup please? You might have some dead heatpipes. Or try remounting it.

EDIT: I took a look, um... try the AcceleroX2 and remount the S1.


----------



## Darknova (Jan 17, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> EDIT: I took a look, um... try the AcceleroX2 and remount the S1.



That's what I'll try in a bit. Going to try the X2, if that works I'll just leave it alone for now.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 18, 2008)

Darknova said:


> That's what I'll try in a bit. Going to try the X2, if that works I'll just leave it alone for now.



What temps did you get using ATi Tool? Idle and the scan for artifacts and record temps


----------



## thegave (Jan 18, 2008)

Just got my X2 on... I'm having trouble deciding whether to use the stock vrm sink or cut up AC's cooling plate to stick on... Does anyone know if the two big Pulse chips need to be cooled?







The AC plate only covers the larger, bottom one, not the top one.

Well I took the plunge and did the voltmod too.

Temps currently look set at 50'C on Artifact Scanner at stock with the X2 at 100%.


----------



## DaMulta (Jan 18, 2008)

I'm thinking about setting up a NON-OCed machine. Just to have around that I know would never be messed up....


    SILVERSTONE SG01-BW Black Aluminum MicroATX Desktop Computer Case - Retail 
    Item #: N82E16811163078
    Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

	-$10.00 Instant


    $149.99
    $139.99 


    SAPPHIRE PE-AM2RS690MH AM2 AMD 690G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail 
    Item #: N82E16813154014
    Return Policy: Standard Return Policy



    $64.99

Add a HD2900(if it will fit) to go in there, along with a 9500 or 6400. What do you guys think?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 18, 2008)

thegave said:


> Just got my X2 on... I'm having trouble deciding whether to use the stock vrm sink or cut up AC's cooling plate to stick on... Does anyone know if the two big Pulse chips need to be cooled?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Err.... you dont stick ANYTHING on. The fact is that your VRMs are already covered.


----------



## thegave (Jan 18, 2008)

It's a great idea. That's what I have my laptop for.

Except it goes funny on me occasionally too.

And then that's even more frustrating because you're like "What have I done to you?"


----------



## Wile E (Jan 18, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> I'm thinking about setting up a NON-OCed machine. Just to have around that I know would never be messed up....
> 
> 
> SILVERSTONE SG01-BW Black Aluminum MicroATX Desktop Computer Case - Retail
> ...


Is this just leftover parts? If so, I say the 6400. For video, sell the 2900, and get a 3850/70 or 8800GT instead.


----------



## thegave (Jan 18, 2008)

I know but will that be better than the special heatplate Arctic-Cooling makes to work together with the X2 since it covers the big Pulse chip as well?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 18, 2008)

thegave said:


> I know but will that be better than the special heatplate Arctic-Cooling makes to work together with the X2 since it covers the big Pulse chip as well?



Err no that VRM plate was never designed to fit on the pulse chip.


----------



## Wile E (Jan 18, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Err no that VRM plate was never designed to fit on the pulse chip.


And besides, the factory sinks have more surface area to dissipate the heat.


----------



## thegave (Jan 18, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Err no that VRM plate was never designed to fit on the pulse chip.



er.. Why does it fit it perfectly then? =\


----------



## Wile E (Jan 18, 2008)

thegave said:


> er.. Why does it fit it perfectly then? =\



Coincidence. That heat spreader was made because on some of the cards, you had to remove the stock fet cooling. On your card, you do not. So leave the factory heatsink there. It will do a better job than the X2's spreader.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 18, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> lol. Period. Stop talking about me and the 8800. Pretend I still use my X1950PRO



well if you dont want people to know you have switched to the dark side, why is it in your specs then, lmao


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 19, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> well if you dont want people to know you have switched to the dark side, why is it in your specs then, lmao



Shhhhhhh


----------



## thegave (Jan 19, 2008)

So those Pulse chips don't need to be cooled then?

What about the large (Rialto bridge?) chip covered with funny pink stuff on the back?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 19, 2008)

thegave said:


> So those Pulse chips don't need to be cooled then?
> 
> What about the large (Rialto bridge?) chip covered with funny pink stuff on the back?



i'd buy a set zalman ram heatsinks and stick one of them on. Stick it onto the shiny part of it btw. Make sure its clean, dont touch it. (Rialto).

The pulse chips dont need to be cooled.


----------



## Darknova (Jan 19, 2008)

I swear I'm getting a run of bad PC parts...that fan was well dodgy. One of the blades was f***ed and kept catching...didn't notice until it I went to put the X2 on.

Found one of my old 80mm blue LED fans, bolted that to it and now it works like a dream.

Bastard even idles cooler than my CPU!!


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 19, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Shhhhhhh



Man you are a character TK. LMAO

In more news i expect the new Sapphire R1950 Pro AGP 512 from Althon Micro (liaison for Sapphire) UPS ground on 20080124.

No news on the HIS 1950 Pro AGP yet, they said to expect in 2 to 4 weeks


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 19, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> Man you are a character TK. LMAO
> 
> In more news i expect the new Sapphire R1950 Pro AGP 512 from Althon Micro (liaison for Sapphire) UPS ground on 20080124.
> 
> No news on the HIS 1950 Pro AGP yet, they said to expect in 2 to 4 weeks



I'd concentrate on upgrading the rest of your computer. Why buy AGP?


----------



## grunt_408 (Jan 19, 2008)

Can anyone see anything wrong with this pic?


----------



## ShadowFold (Jan 19, 2008)

Nope


----------



## Darknova (Jan 20, 2008)

Craigleberry said:


> Can anyone see anything wrong with this pic?



22" monitor - check
1950Pro - check
Catalyst 7.12 - check

Nope. No issues...


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 20, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> I'd concentrate on upgrading the rest of your computer. Why buy AGP?



This wasnt a buy it is a RMA

Oh trust me the new machine will be more current, thinking in the range of 6000 or 6550. 790FX or P35 Mobos (X38 dont have the stuff i like same with X48) 3850 and PC 12000 DDR2


----------



## grunt_408 (Jan 20, 2008)

Darknova said:


> 22" monitor - check
> 1950Pro - check
> Catalyst 7.12 - check
> 
> Nope. No issues...



I didnt think I had any problems but this stupid gigabyte driver updater told me that my display drivers were out of date. lol.
I dunno about these online scans
http://driveragent.com/gigabytepromo.php
:shadedshu




:shadedshu


----------



## Darknova (Jan 20, 2008)

That's because 8.1 cat drivers were released a few days ago


----------



## grunt_408 (Jan 21, 2008)

Thanks for letting me know Darknova about the 8.1 cat drivers otherwise I would still be waiting for the camel to get to me with the message. lol. 
I installed them and here are my 3dmark 06 scores

Sorry bad link try this one
http://service.futuremark.com/orb/resultanalyzer.jsp?projectType=14&XLID=0&UID=13570035


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 21, 2008)

Why doesnt your score break 5k?


----------



## grunt_408 (Jan 21, 2008)

i DUNNO probly need to tweak it a little
Card was running underclocked again because installing new drivers so I put it at stock specs. Still having trouble breaking that 5k.


----------



## Widjaja (Jan 21, 2008)

Strange.
You shouldn't have to OC your X1950pro over stock to get over 5K.

I remember when you set the card back to stock clocks it was getting over 5200.
And now it's not breaking it at stock?

TBH I've noticed my marks getting a little lower with every new driver release.
From 7.6-7.9cat my X1950pro would get over 5K, by 7.10 it dropped below so I'm guessing the latest driver may get me even lower marks.

Are AMD/ATi forgetting about thier previous cards and make the drivers perform better for thier newer cards again?

I'd rather buy nVidia if they're going to be like that.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 21, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Strange.
> You shouldn't have to OC your X1950pro over stock to get over 5K.
> 
> I remember when you set the card back to stock clocks it was getting over 5200.
> ...



hate to break it to ya but nvidia is worse about dropping support for previous boards look at 7600 and 7300 line they are being dropped driver support wise


----------



## grunt_408 (Jan 21, 2008)

My latest efforts http://service.futuremark.com/orb/resultanalyzer.jsp?projectType=14&XLID=0&UID=13578004


----------



## ShadowFold (Jan 21, 2008)

Craigleberry said:


> My latest efforts http://service.futuremark.com/orb/resultanalyzer.jsp?projectType=14&XLID=0&UID=13578004



Grats


----------



## grunt_408 (Jan 22, 2008)

Cheers has anyone found that they have a less score in 3dmark after 8.1 ?


----------



## Widjaja (Jan 22, 2008)

LOL!
Good luck in finding people who will admit they have scored lower.

I'll be trying out 8.1cat soon so I'll edit this post once I've done a run in 3DMark06.
I think  I'll get lower marks.


----------



## DOM (Jan 22, 2008)

Craigleberry said:


> Cheers has anyone found that they have a less score in 3dmark after 8.1 ?



i did like 50 some or more lol forgot  thats from 7.9


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (Jan 22, 2008)

x2 review here

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=50373


----------



## ShadowFold (Jan 23, 2008)

I got a 70 point boost with 8.1


----------



## imperialreign (Jan 23, 2008)

Craigleberry said:


> Cheers has anyone found that they have a less score in 3dmark after 8.1 ?



haven't even checked, yet - I broke the CPU fan (myself=dumbass=) at the back of my case and haven't been willing to run anything to intensive until I replace it.

BTW - cb, this last weekend was insane; I still intend to get to that sig in the near future.


----------



## grunt_408 (Jan 23, 2008)

Thanks man I am in no hurry for it. I appreciate your help though.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 23, 2008)

X2... looks interesting . Should be cheaper than two HD3870s?


----------



## diileri (Jan 24, 2008)

Hello to all. 
I just bought Sapphire X1950 pro (pci-e) and had problems (artifacting even with underclocking) with about every ati drivers I've tried, except Omega 3.8.442.
So, is this just a glitch with my card, or driver issue, since the reference drivers from ati/amd don't seem to work.
I've been reading this thread for a while, but I haven't had the time to read it completely (family takes it's "toll")...

Ah, the system specs...
cpu: E2160 @ 2.6GHz
mobo: ASRock 4CoreDual-SATA2
mem: 2GB DDR2-800 (1 dimm)
gpu: Sapphire Radeon X1950 Pro PCI-E
pwr: Enermax 350W
OS: WinXP SP2


----------



## Widjaja (Jan 24, 2008)

diileri said:


> Hello to all.
> I just bought Sapphire X1950 pro (pci-e) and had problems (artifacting even with underclocking) with about every ati drivers I've tried, except Omega 3.8.442.
> So, is this just a glitch with my card, or driver issue, since the reference drivers from ati/amd don't seem to work.
> I've been reading this thread for a while, but I haven't had the time to read it completely (family takes it's "toll")...
> ...



*pwr: Enermax 350W* for sure.
According to AMD/ATi the power supply minimum is 450W with 30a on a single +12v rail PSU or 22a on a +12v dual rail PSU, but this recommendation is for a fully loaded system.

I'm using a 18a +12v dual rail PSU currently and haven't had any artifacting with the card.
I have used the card since April 07'.

I hope the lack in power didn't make your card artifact permanently.
Not to scare you, I heard storys of it happening.


----------



## diileri (Jan 24, 2008)

I forgot to mention that we tested the card with my friend's rig (AMDX2 6400+, 2GB DDR2 800, 550W psu with 2 x 18A 12V lines (my psu has 17A 12V line)).
The problem was the same.
But curiously the omega driver's don't create any artifacts even when I oc the card (currently running stable 634MHz core and 1444MHz memory) and run 3dmark06 looping for 3 hours.
(currently running stable 634MHz core and 1444MHz memory).
Core temp stays below 65 degrees celcius.



Widjaja said:


> I hope the lack in power didn't make your card artifact permanently.
> Not to scare you, I heard storys of it happening.



This power is capable of delivering almost 430W RMS, even though it's specs say 350W..


----------



## TonyStark (Jan 24, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Sigh... I'm in a rather irky mood atm so please dont be offended. But guys, refrain from those ridiculously short posts that are one word. Such as "fixed", there is absolutely no need to type something like that.



No.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 24, 2008)

diileri said:


> I forgot to mention that we tested the card with my friend's rig (AMDX2 6400+, 2GB DDR2 800, 550W psu with 2 x 18A 12V lines (my psu has 17A 12V line)).
> The problem was the same.
> But curiously the omega driver's don't create any artifacts even when I oc the card (currently running stable 634MHz core and 1444MHz memory) and run 3dmark06 looping for 3 hours.
> (currently running stable 634MHz core and 1444MHz memory).
> ...



Your PSU is enough for it - a build like that would only eat 200W at most. Anyway being more relevant. Explain what drivers did you exctly use? Did you properly uninstall, reboot then reinstall the drivers? I'd RMA if after several attempts to get it working fail.


----------



## diileri (Jan 24, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Your PSU is enough for it - a build like that would only eat 200W at most. Anyway being more relevant. Explain what drivers did you exctly use? Did you properly uninstall, reboot then reinstall the drivers? I'd RMA if after several attempts to get it working fail.



I thought so... Since I've seen ppl run even more power demanding rigs with similar PSU & same card without a glitch.

epilogue for me:
After all... it's funny how ppl blindly believe everything the card manufacturer says about the power requirements... I saw this one forum and they said that 29Amps for 12V line is not enough because ati recommends minimum of 30Amps.
If the card itself pulls less than 80Watts total in a rig that uses abt 250Watts, there is no way in hell the card needs 30Amps on 12V rail.
The power requirement assumed by ati is as staggering as 12V*30A= 360W. 
In this one finnish forum (muropaketti.com), some ppl run E6600/2GB/X1950pro and similar rigs overclocked to the cpu's max capability with 350W/400W psu's which deliver 12 to 17A to the 12V rail.


----------



## grunt_408 (Jan 26, 2008)

diileri said:


> I thought so... Since I've seen ppl run even more power demanding rigs with similar PSU & same card without a glitch.
> 
> epilogue for me:
> After all... it's funny how ppl blindly believe everything the card manufacturer says about the power requirements...



I would say that the card manufacture are just covering their bum's in saying about Power reqiurements. And also probly get a royalty for the Sli and Crossfire stamped psu's.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 26, 2008)

Its also a method of generating money. Many stores say that a 430W NEO HE isnt enough for stuff like say, a single GTS 640 which is absolute rubbish, or even an X1950PRO. Well i dont get suckered so easily by that kind of advertising though.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 27, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> I hope the lack in power didn't make your card artifact permanently.
> Not to scare you, I heard storys of it happening.



Artifacting? incorrect term, you mean damage.


----------



## grunt_408 (Jan 27, 2008)

The only thing I make sure with PSU's is that I have more than enough and that I use a Good Brand and not some generic unstable piece os $hit.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 27, 2008)

Craigleberry said:


> The only thing I make sure with PSU's is that I have more than enough and that I use a Good Brand and not some generic unstable piece os $hit.



My old PC is using that "piece of shit generic", that physically uses better components than my thermaltake 430W PSU. And weighing it in its a whole 500g more heavier in comparison. Oh yeah by the way, my old PC has been upgraded:

Old specs:

Processor: Pentium 4 Northwood A 3.2Ghz (Might be up for sale btw) 478
Memory: 2x1GB DDR400 Team Elite + Apacer
Motherboard: ASUS P4S800 SIS648FX
Video Card:GeCUBE 9800PRO Rev 1.0 (PR0wn3d more like . Its dead if you didn't get the joke)
Hard Drives:Western Digital WD800 (80GB) IDE
Power Supply: 530W Generic WideTech PSU
Optical Drive: Pioneer DVD+RW IDE (Dead)
Chassis: Some Generic Tsumori AR series case that looked good in my eyes... ugly in your eyes.

New Specs:

Processor: Pentium Dual Core E2160 1.8Ghz
Memory: 2x1GB DDR667 -> 800 Kingston
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA P31 DS3L (Sorry couldn't resist )
Video Card: Powercolor X1950PRO EXTREME 256MB With Arctic Cooling AcceleroS1
Hard Drives: Western Digital WD800 (80GB) IDE)
Power Supply: 530W Generic WideTech PSU
Optical Drive: LG GSA H6N SATA 18x DVD+RW+DL 
Chassis: Apex/ALLIED PC-132 (the old beigebox on my main PC before, remember?, god that case is nice for cable management >=D)

Basically a backup PC... that doesnt break my back. Might be my lan rig if I ever intend on going to lanpartys... Jesus the SOLO is far too heavy, (and thanks to the PSU choice and cooling choice). If I add another HDD and burner... *dies thinking about that*

I dont know why I got an 8800. The X1950PRO is more than enough for me  (nah I'm being serious). But I'm happy with my choices. Replaced the Celeron 4xx styled stock cooler with the E6300's cooler, god the Celeron 4xx cooler was scary, I was like "crap my CPU is going to fry", temps said otherwise, but... I didnt take chances. Gave the cooler's base a good rub with toothpaste, damn corrosion stuck to it.


----------



## TonyStark (Jan 27, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> I got a 70 point boost with 8.1



A 0.005% boost in performance. Crazy man, i'm gonna update right away.


----------



## diileri (Jan 27, 2008)

.005% boost 
Atleast a boost


----------



## thegave (Jan 28, 2008)

What does a power shortage look like? Artifacts or straight hang?


----------



## grunt_408 (Jan 28, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Chassis: Some Generic Tsumori AR series case that looked good in my eyes... ugly in your eyes



How do you know? You do not look with my eyes. Re the Generic PSU You get what you pay for IMO. I wouldnt trust some 30 dollar crap PSU with a 1500 dollar PC  not even for five minutes. :shadedshu



thegave said:


> What does a power shortage look like? Artifacts or straight hang?


 I used to have the agp x1950 and when i got it I had a 400W "generic" Unicase PSU. After installing the x1950 the pc wouldnt fire up. I installed a Thermaltake 470W and it worked good after that untill it died.


----------



## Widjaja (Jan 28, 2008)

If I had TK's eyes then I'd be like shallow Hal.

Personally go with reputable branded PSU's myself, just keeps peace of mind.


----------



## grunt_408 (Jan 28, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> If I had TK's eyes then I'd be like shallow Hal.
> 
> Personally go with reputable branded PSU's myself, just keeps peace of mind.



 Copy that.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 28, 2008)

well i got the card in, so far so good, just couldnt load up Motocross Madness 2 on it, as the game wouldnt detect the card, it would only run in Software rendering, i noticed 3D selection in the game was ticked- which allows GPU selection- but it wouldnt come up when loaded game for first time, so after 3rd time launching i unticked it then left game and then i couldnt launch game and i decided to run DXDiag and i got 3 Fails with all DX Modes, so i believe drivers are still rough with AGP cards (Including Older) for newer drivers, after this one last install im going to try with Catalyst 7.6 and see what it does then.

I have Unified Remix 11.16 drivers in, latest Catalyst 8.1 and Latest DX9C (2007) NOV,


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 28, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> well i got the card in, so far so good, just couldnt load up Motocross Madness 2 on it, as the game wouldnt detect the card, it would only run in Software rendering, i noticed 3D selection in the game was ticked- which allows GPU selection- but it wouldnt come up when loaded game for first time, so after 3rd time launching i unticked it then left game and then i couldnt launch game and i decided to run DXDiag and i got 3 Fails with all DX Modes, so i believe drivers are still rough with AGP cards (Including Older) for newer drivers, after this one last install im going to try with Catalyst 7.6 and see what it does then.
> 
> I have Unified Remix 11.16 drivers in, latest Catalyst 8.1 and Latest DX9C (2007) NOV,



You have to stick with 7.6 Drivers, so far AMD hasn't been able to fix the driver issue with AGP GPUs. There is no way you can use any driver set higher than 7.6. 7.6 In my opinion is one of the best drivers, very stable imho. If only AMD fixed this up >_>


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 28, 2008)

well afaik the 7.12s dont cause the Reads/Writes and AGP Mode to change in CCC, 8.1s aswell
i just believe they maybe dropping DX7 support from the drivers.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 28, 2008)

I'd Keep with previous drivers that work.


----------



## grunt_408 (Jan 28, 2008)

Or try Omega drivers I have heard they work well with X1950 AGP


----------



## Widjaja (Jan 28, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> well i got the card in, so far so good, just couldnt load up Motocross Madness 2 on it, as the game wouldnt detect the card, it would only run in Software rendering, i noticed 3D selection in the game was ticked- which allows GPU selection- but it wouldnt come up when loaded game for first time, so after 3rd time launching i unticked it then left game and then i couldnt launch game and i decided to run DXDiag and i got 3 Fails with all DX Modes, so i believe drivers are still rough with AGP cards (Including Older) for newer drivers, after this one last install im going to try with Catalyst 7.6 and see what it does then.
> 
> I have Unified Remix 11.16 drivers in, latest Catalyst 8.1 and Latest DX9C (2007) NOV,




Is this with the HIS or the Sapphire X1950pro?

Well it's obviously a driver issue with the HIS but there shouldn't be any issues with the Sapphire, if so I think it would be hardware related.
I've been lazy and haven't installed 8.1cat yet but my Sapphire has been working since 7.1-7.12 I only missed out 7.7 and 7.8 I think.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 28, 2008)

Okay correction, 7.11 and 7.12 work with the X1950PRO AGPs. Eidairaman probably got a Sapphire, 8.1s may have some problem. I highly doubt AMD would drop DX7 support as many still-popular titles such as Counterstrike 1.6 run on DX7 (or less).


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 28, 2008)

X1950PRO In its new habitat:





8800GT In my main Rig:  	





Notice how both systems use a P31 board and use the AcceleroS1 and are wired in a similar manner .


----------



## grunt_408 (Jan 28, 2008)

Also see the Thermalright has a GIGABYTE sticker on it


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 29, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Okay correction, 7.11 and 7.12 work with the X1950PRO AGPs. Eidairaman probably got a Sapphire, 8.1s may have some problem. I highly doubt AMD would drop DX7 support as many still-popular titles such as Counterstrike 1.6 run on DX7 (or less).



Well i think i will stick with the 7.6, but AMD seriously needs to state in their drivers that they are for AGP Cards aswell (Ones that work!) Also i do have a 1950 Pro and the card is stable hardware wise, i just cant get software working worth a Damn. But ya im going to go with Vanilla Nvidia Drivers except the IDE which apparently 5.10s have a problem. Install Cat 7.6 and should i try the Latest Beta Drivers for the Xfi Sound card?


----------



## thegave (Jan 29, 2008)

Cat 7.12-based Omegas working fine for me, I think (Sapphire 1950Pro 512mb AGP)

As regarding power-supply, I'm using a Dell 250W which I hear are good quality things, and the thing boots and runs things fine, but when I have a game open and minimised and I'm running artifact scan the thing hangs. I'm guessing this is probably most likely just because I'm trying to OC it too much? Works fine in games with those clocks though.. =/ And no artifacts before the crash. Usually takes a few minutes to crash


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 29, 2008)

the 1950 Pro was never an overclocker, how sapphire managed to get the clocks it has vs Reference is beyond me.


----------



## ShadowFold (Jan 29, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> the 1950 Pro was never an overclocker, how sapphire managed to get the clocks it has vs Reference is beyond me.



BIOS mods and voltage uppage probly


----------



## thegave (Jan 29, 2008)

what's the best waterblock for a 1950pro? 

i know EK makes full ones that cover the ram sinks as well, are there any others? what's the diff between the EK FCX1900 and the EK FCX1900 Acetal CF? 

I would assume the CF stands for CrossFire, but if you have a look at  
http://ekwaterblocks.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=116
versus
http://ekwaterblocks.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=21_31_42&products_id=136

hmm.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 30, 2008)

thegave said:


> what's the best waterblock for a 1950pro?
> 
> i know EK makes full ones that cover the ram sinks as well, are there any others? what's the diff between the EK FCX1900 and the EK FCX1900 Acetal CF?
> 
> ...



Hmm... watercooling? Is the rest of your system watercooled? I'd instead look at using this cash to upgrade the rest of the system. If you are keen on cooling, I'd instead grab high end air cooling instead. My opinion is that the AcceleroX2 is enough-even with water cooling you wont be able to get more out of that X1950PRO.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 30, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Hmm... watercooling? Is the rest of your system watercooled? I'd instead look at using this cash to upgrade the rest of the system. If you are keen on cooling, I'd instead grab high end air cooling instead. My opinion is that the AcceleroX2 is enough-even with water cooling you wont be able to get more out of that X1950PRO.



ya youd have to increase voltage higher to get better yields but the card was originally designed as a high performance low power model. AMD turned around with 3850 and 3870.


----------



## thegave (Jan 30, 2008)

There's not much more I can upgrade on this pos. I have 4x 512mb so that's taken up all the slots. i don't really want to get raptors because i don't think they'll help that much. what does that leave me with, cpu? look for a 3.4ghz EE?


----------



## Wile E (Jan 30, 2008)

thegave said:


> There's not much more I can upgrade on this pos. I have 4x 512mb so that's taken up all the slots. i don't really want to get raptors because i don't think they'll help that much. what does that leave me with, cpu? look for a 3.4ghz EE?



Save your pennies, and do a full rebuild. Mobo, ram, cpu all at once. You can get a decent combo for around $250, if you reuse all your other stuff.


----------



## ChillyMyst (Jan 30, 2008)

thegave said:


> There's not much more I can upgrade on this pos. I have 4x 512mb so that's taken up all the slots. i don't really want to get raptors because i don't think they'll help that much. what does that leave me with, cpu? look for a 3.4ghz EE?



cheap upgrade option

biostar ta770      82bucks at the egg
A-Data extream 2gb ddr2 800 cas4overclocks to 1066+ with ease.
4000+ x2 60bucks at the egg (will do 2.85 or higher easly, totaly killing that p4.

that added up via the egg cart=194bucks!!!  damn good price if u ask me

2 other things i would add
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817101021
epower 550watt 20+20amp 12v rail psu with EPS12v support(8pin CPU power for newer boards, but still works in onder ones) will run you 50bucks.

http://www.jab-tech.com/Thermalright-Ultra-90-K8-pr-3348.html
thermalright ultra90 cpu cooler go with the h1 fan it has higher airflow(free with cooler) its 20bucks(19 acctualy but hey) 


i know, alot of you now hate amd, but this setups cheap and can support phenom/k10 overclocking properly when/if somebody desides to grab a k10 later!!!!


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 30, 2008)

thegave said:


> There's not much more I can upgrade on this pos. I have 4x 512mb so that's taken up all the slots. i don't really want to get raptors because i don't think they'll help that much. what does that leave me with, cpu? look for a 3.4ghz EE?



the Raptors are just overglorified HDs, your better off with a SCSI system for max performance


----------



## Wile E (Jan 31, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> the Raptors are just overglorified HDs, your better off with a SCSI system for max performance


That's much more expensive than buying Raptors.


----------



## ChillyMyst (Jan 31, 2008)

WileE, its more expencive but true, and i agree raptors arent that great, they have good access time but dont transfer data any faster, personaly i have owned raptors and compared them with normal drives and the only things the raptors really showed me over the normal drives in every day use was that they could run alot hotter even with a fan blowing dirrectly on them.......


----------



## Wile E (Jan 31, 2008)

ChillyMyst said:


> WileE, its more expencive but true, and i agree raptors arent that great, they have good access time but dont transfer data any faster, personaly i have owned raptors and compared them with normal drives and the only things the raptors really showed me over the normal drives in every day use was that they could run alot hotter even with a fan blowing dirrectly on them.......


It all depends on what you're doing, really. Raptors have their place. If you are frequently accessing large, contiguous files, a high density perpindicular drive or 2 will likely serve you better for the same price., But if you are continually accessing many, very small files at any given moment, the Raptor will serve you better.

Take note that I have a 2x320GB 7200.10 Seagate RAID0 array, but I don't down the Raptors, because they do have their place.


----------



## imperialreign (Jan 31, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> ya youd have to increase voltage higher to get better yields but the card was originally designed as a high performance low power model. AMD turned around with 3850 and 3870.



best of my understanding on the 1950 PROs, also, is that vmodding doesn't always actually _do_ anything   My style PCB is like that (uses capacitors and coils in place of the VRMs).  Some are over-volt locked too.

Besides, even cranking the clocks up a ton doesn't really seem to net a major performance boost.  This card seems to run it's best around 610/730.




			
				Wile E said:
			
		

> Take note that I have a 2x320GB 7200.10 Seagate RAID0 array, but I don't down the Raptors, because they do have their place.



I've always considered Raptors to be the HDDs of the hardcore gamers.  WD never really targeted that audience, though.


----------



## ChillyMyst (Jan 31, 2008)

i seen raptors more for people who what their epeen enlarged or for use in servers that have alot of traffic.

if u want the fastist drives u can get  seagate has some 15000 rpm drives that have been around for years, and are still fastist you can buy, warrning,they get very warm tho


----------



## Wile E (Jan 31, 2008)

ChillyMyst said:


> i seen raptors more for people who what their epeen enlarged or for use in servers that have alot of traffic.
> 
> if u want the fastist drives u can get  seagate has some 15000 rpm drives that have been around for years, and are still fastist you can buy, warrning,they get very warm tho


Cheetahs. But they're SCSI, and you need to buy a good controller to see the true benefit from them. Tack on another $250+ for that, depending on the options you choose.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 31, 2008)

Yup considering their warranty is the worst out of the major players, If i had option between a WD and Samsung Drive, id take the Samsung over the WD- Despite performance- its the warranty that counts the most on mechanical parts like HDs. Ive seen Drives not even last a few days ya know


imperialreign said:


> best of my understanding on the 1950 PROs, also, is that vmodding doesn't always actually _do_ anything   My style PCB is like that (uses capacitors and coils in place of the VRMs).  Some are over-volt locked too.
> 
> Besides, even cranking the clocks up a ton doesn't really seem to net a major performance boost.  This card seems to run it's best around 610/730.
> 
> ...


----------



## tkpenalty (Jan 31, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> Yup considering their warranty is the worst out of the major players, If i had option between a WD and Samsung Drive, id take the Samsung over the WD- Despite performance- its the warranty that counts the most on mechanical parts like HDs. Ive seen Drives not even last a few days ya know



What? It is possible to get an RMA for WD HDD. As Wile E argued, the Raptors are for PERFORMANCE. NOT, for budget, thus why there is a point of purchasing them. However with samsung, they are aimed at lower cost consumers... I wouldn't mind getting a samsung at all as they are good drives overall. Yes on the frontier of performance they slightly suffer, but its a negligable difference overall. 

Tkpenalty's Secondary [2008]






Please Enjoy.

Better images of the X1950PRO in its new habitat, note i had to install those copper heatsinks on the rear of the card. I found out that the VRMs were running WAY too hot... thus why lowering airflow to them usually ended in the GPU crashing/blank screening. I wonder if I should try to push that E2160


----------



## thegave (Jan 31, 2008)

Even if the 1950s are over-volt locked a hardware voltmod should work right?

think I'll give the pencil mod another go since bios overvolting doesn't seem to have changed anything.

I'm reluctant to upgrade because I'd feel very bad about letting go of my Corsair, bearing in mind I paid like almost $400 for them way back in the day and never really had a chance to use them. Don't need a new PSU, the StealthXStream should be able to handle more or less anything...

Have to put water-cooling on hold now because I got gyped with my motherboard... God damnit. If I can't find a replacement i875p I might just go down the full upgrade route.


----------



## imperialreign (Jan 31, 2008)

thegave said:


> Even if the 1950s are over-volt locked a hardware voltmod should work right?
> 
> think I'll give the pencil mod another go since bios overvolting doesn't seem to have changed anything.
> 
> ...



well, that's what I was getting at earlier - even if you defeat an over-volt lock (if the card has one) so that you can go about a hardware vmod, it won't necessarily work, either.

It's worth a shot, though, but keep in mind that the 1950s will go thermonuclear with a vmod - make sure you've got an adequate cooling solution for the card.



			
				ChillyMyst said:
			
		

> i seen raptors more for people who what their epeen enlarged or for use in servers that have alot of traffic.
> 
> if u want the fastist drives u can get seagate has some 15000 rpm drives that have been around for years, and are still fastist you can buy, warrning,they get very warm tho



meh . . . due to the low storage capacity of a Raptor HDD, you'll never see it in server use.

IIRC, most server HDDs are SCSI - and those types from any manufacturer are not cheap.

Anyhow, I've been more than happy with my 7200 WD drives - personally, I prefer the Seagate Barracuda's, but when the wallet is tight, I'll go with WD.


----------



## thegave (Jan 31, 2008)

seagate

what's the stuff you use for pencil modding called? the stuff you use for car window defoggers?


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 1, 2008)

thegave said:


> Even if the 1950s are over-volt locked a hardware voltmod should work right?
> 
> think I'll give the pencil mod another go since bios overvolting doesn't seem to have changed anything.
> 
> ...



We meant change stuff like CPU, mobo, RAM, GPU, and thats it. Why would you need to upgrade the PSU?


----------



## ShadowFold (Feb 1, 2008)

"Better images of the X1950PRO in its new habitat" 

Its like watching wild kingdom


----------



## thegave (Feb 1, 2008)

Someone suggested I buy some new PSU.. =/

um. Don't really want to spend money upgrading. So trying to squeeze everything out of the videocard. And I guess it doesn't make sense to go water. So. yeeah. A(nother) new mobo and I think I'll stop there...


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 1, 2008)

thegave said:


> Someone suggested I buy some new PSU.. =/
> 
> um. Don't really want to spend money upgrading. So trying to squeeze everything out of the videocard. And I guess it doesn't make sense to go water. So. yeeah. A(nother) new mobo and I think I'll stop there...



New mobo new RAM new CPU new GPU.

Something like this:

E6750
2x1GB DDR800 (even generic will do)
GA P35 DS3
ASUS HD3850 512MB (with Company of heroes and non-reference cooler). 

The performance given by those parts would burn your current setup.


----------



## Dangle (Feb 1, 2008)

TKPenalty, don't you think you might as well just change the name to the ATI clubhouse?


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 1, 2008)

Dangle said:


> TKPenalty, don't you think you might as well just change the name to the ATI clubhouse?



This is probably the 10th time someone asked, no. Why can't I call it an ATi Clubhouse? Because I only support X1k~HD3k GPUs. I plan to discontinue support to the X1k~X1800 Series GPUs as nobody cares about them.

New title will be X1950~HD3K Clubhouse


----------



## Wile E (Feb 1, 2008)

thegave said:


> seagate
> 
> what's the stuff you use for pencil modding called? the stuff you use for car window defoggers?


No, you literally use a pencil.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 1, 2008)

err wtf is X1950k..................... sorry but may you please change it to X1950....


----------



## Wile E (Feb 1, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> err wtf is X1950k..................... sorry but may you please change it to X1950....



Ummmm, what?


----------



## thegave (Feb 1, 2008)

Read somewhere on a forum that using conductive pen is better. Plus it's really hard to get the graphite in the right pace without having it between resistors


----------



## Wile E (Feb 1, 2008)

thegave said:


> Read somewhere on a forum that using conductive pen is better. Plus it's really hard to get the graphite in the right pace without having it between resistors


Conductive pen is not better for penciling a resistor. That's what this entails.

You're thinking of painting traces on the board, to complete a different circut. You don't do that with this particular mod.


----------



## thegave (Feb 1, 2008)

http://www.vr-zone.com/articles/PowerColor_X1950PRO_256MB_With_Arctic_Cooling/4190-7.html

kind of hard to pencil across when they're so close together... =(


----------



## ChillyMyst (Feb 1, 2008)

not really, i have used pencil mods plenty of times on diffrent products, tip, you dont use a normal wooden pencil, get a .7mm machanical job and proper led and your set, you can even get led with diffrent resistance levels if you take a DMM with you, I once had 5 diffrent leds that each had diffrent levels of resistance, you will injoy the weird looks u will get at an art shop/craft store from ppl who see you using a DMM on pencil led


----------



## Urbklr (Feb 2, 2008)




----------



## 3991vhtes (Feb 2, 2008)

The rainbowiest of them all!!!!!


----------



## Dangle (Feb 2, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> This is probably the 10th time someone asked, no. Why can't I call it an ATi Clubhouse? Because I only support X1k~HD3k GPUs. I plan to discontinue support to the X1k~X1800 Series GPUs as nobody cares about them.
> 
> New title will be X1950~HD3K Clubhouse


Thanks!  understood!  I like how you keep up with teh times! WOOT!


Btw, can you add me to your front page for user?
Stock Asus 2900XT
No OC... yet.


----------



## imperialreign (Feb 2, 2008)

^previous posts past Dangle . . .


:shadedshu  

In light of what is 'ere to come - Ima gonna steer clear of this thread for the next page or two


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 2, 2008)

Spammers, please I want you to die.

No I dont. But Please end this nonsense.............


----------



## 3991vhtes (Feb 2, 2008)

Wanting people to die becuse they crapped your thread?

ok i see you edited it, it sounds much less offensive


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 2, 2008)

3991vhtes said:


> eh...that's pathetic.Wanting people to die becuse they crapped your thread?
> 
> y?



Cause I'm possibly mentally unstable from other things that happened outside of the forum? Stop provoking me. You guys are FAR from being near the word useful for what you have done to three threads. You guys get in the bloody way of serious discussion, I seriously look down on you now. You guys have ganged up, trying to hijack the thread and possibly get it locked. I dont think moderators will take this lightly. When I saw it in the 8 Series clubhouse I thought it was just a short joke, but all three of the clubhouses?


----------



## 3991vhtes (Feb 2, 2008)

Still, that's no excuse. Death should only be put upon people who kill there daughters for breaking an xbox, not a thread crapper 

We did it, because it's freaking hilarious


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 2, 2008)

3991vhtes said:


> Still, that's no excuse. Death should only be put upon people who kill there daughters for breaking an xbox, not a thread crapper



*SIGH* Do you not get the point? You do not have the right to spam here. This seems to be some baiting attempt, and "forum gang up". 

Why isnt Ubrklr911 responding? Same person?

EDIT: On a sidenote the mods are here.


----------



## 3991vhtes (Feb 2, 2008)

Urbklr911 is offline...want the part of the MSN conversation?


----------



## 3991vhtes (Feb 2, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> EDIT: On a sidenote the mods are here.



rly?


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 2, 2008)

3991vhtes said:


> rly?



Yes. 2 Members online, only my name shows up. Which means one Moderator who is in invisible mode is here.


----------



## ChillyMyst (Feb 2, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Cause I'm possibly mentally unstable....



that explains alot........

and oh noez, we should all run in fear, a mod is in the house and TKP is crying to them because his clubhouse has some "spam" in it.

oh i also have one of these cards, a bios moded x1900xt at toxic speeds with fan set at 100% all the time, but no i dont want to join your club, because you come off as a real mental case/twonk.......


----------



## Darknova (Feb 2, 2008)

Rainbows are cool....

Calm down TKP. It's a forum, stop getting so damn stressed because of it, and if you are having problems "outside of the forum" DON'T take it out on us.


----------



## ChillyMyst (Feb 2, 2008)

Darknova said:


> Rainbows are cool....
> 
> Calm down TKP. It's a forum, stop getting so damn stressed because of it, and if you are having problems "outside of the forum" DON'T take it out on us.



yeah maby go take a break, have some tea and a biscut, just make it caffien free, your already high strung/twitchy enought without more help!!!


----------



## diileri (Feb 2, 2008)

Anyone know which software to use in vista 64bit to overclock x1950pro pcie?
Atitool doesn't work at all if I use driver level overclocking (doesn't change speeds at all), and ati tray tools doesn't have a working low level driver 
Suggestions other than ccc  ?


----------



## peach1971 (Feb 2, 2008)

My favorite is ATi Tray Tools! 
I´m using it in auto 2D/3D OC mode (GPU running @459 energy saving MHz in 2D).

http://www.guru3d.com/article/atitraytools/189/


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 2, 2008)

Darknova said:


> Rainbows are cool....
> 
> Calm down TKP. It's a forum, stop getting so damn stressed because of it, and if you are having problems "outside of the forum" DON'T take it out on us.



I'm okay now, but i hear this phrase far too often .



diileri said:


> Anyone know which software to use in vista 64bit to overclock x1950pro pcie?
> Atitool doesn't work at all if I use driver level overclocking (doesn't change speeds at all), and ati tray tools doesn't have a working low level driver
> Suggestions other than ccc  ?



ATi Tray Tools maybe? As suggested earlier. I myself find some problems with ATi tool usually. At most i use it for stability testing. On the 8800 and X1950. ATi Tray Tools seems to be more reliable for me, but it really depends on your setup. X1950PROs really need ATi Tray tools. 
One problem you'll face with the X1950PRO is the fact that you wont be able to juice more performance out of it-regardless of OC.


----------



## Urbklr (Feb 2, 2008)

Im online now....I have yet to hear from a mod....

GO RAINBOW'S


----------



## ChillyMyst (Feb 2, 2008)

cant riva tuner work on x1950 cards?  never tryed it but i think it should work, if not try powerstrip


----------



## 3991vhtes (Feb 2, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Yes. 2 Members online, only my name shows up. Which means one Moderator who is in invisible mode is here.



That was me


----------



## diileri (Feb 2, 2008)

diileri said:


> ... and ati tray tools doesn't have a working low level driver
> Suggestions other than ccc  ?



As i mentioned. ati tray tools won't do for me as I use Vista64. ATT doesn't have what you call a "digitally signed driver". So it doesn't even start 

And I can get little bit more "juice" from this card in XP via OC


----------



## grunt_408 (Feb 2, 2008)

What the hell has been going on in here for the last two pages?? You forgot one thing THERE IS A POT AT THE END OF THE RAINBOW.


----------



## ChillyMyst (Feb 2, 2008)

Craigleberry said:


> What the hell has been going on in here for the last two pages?? You forgot one thing THERE IS A POT AT THE END OF THE RAINBOW.



knowing these forums i think u got the wrong kinda Pot 






just an example, im to lazy to find a leaf


----------



## panchoman (Feb 2, 2008)

typo in the title.. x1950K.. its either gotta be x1k or x1950 lol..


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 3, 2008)

panchoman said:


> typo in the title.. x1950K.. its either gotta be x1k or x1950 lol..



Yeah I know.... its supposed to be X1950...


----------



## Wile E (Feb 3, 2008)

diileri said:


> As i mentioned. ati tray tools won't do for me as I use Vista64. ATT doesn't have what you call a "digitally signed driver". So it doesn't even start
> 
> And I can get little bit more "juice" from this card in XP via OC


Hit F8 during boot-up, like you were gonna boot in safe mode, but select Disable Driver Signing (or similar, don't remember the exact name), and it should work. Unfortunately, you have to do this every time you want to use ATI Tool.

Also, you can give RivaTuner a try, but there's no voltage control.


----------



## diileri (Feb 3, 2008)

Wile E said:


> ..Also, you can give RivaTuner a try, but there's no voltage control.



I haven't found the voltage control in ATT at all ...


----------



## SpookyWillow (Feb 3, 2008)

Wile E said:


> Hit F8 during boot-up, like you were gonna boot in safe mode, but select Disable Driver Signing (or similar, don't remember the exact name), and it should work. Unfortunately, you have to do this every time you want to use ATI Tool.
> 
> Also, you can give RivaTuner a try, but there's no voltage control.



im sure theres a more permanent way of disabling it,  my brother uses vista and he also uses ATT to control his cards fan.


----------



## thegave (Feb 3, 2008)

When I start ATT it asks me if I want to disable ATi Hotkey Poller, which needs to be deactivated for Low Level Driver overclocking to work, but enabled for OverDrive.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 3, 2008)

thegave said:


> When I start ATT it asks me if I want to disable ATi Hotkey Poller, which needs to be deactivated for Low Level Driver overclocking to work, but enabled for OverDrive.



The hotkey poller is a function that is rarely ever used. Its one function that I find rather useless,  and impractical. However your opinion may differ. Anyway, if you don't need to use hotkeys then there is no need to enable it. I disable it through msconfig as it chews on your memory usage (Not that it really matters).


----------



## ChillyMyst (Feb 3, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> The hotkey poller is a function that is rarely ever used. Its one function that I find rather useless,  and impractical. However your opinion may differ. Anyway, if you don't need to use hotkeys then there is no need to enable it. I disable it through msconfig as it chews on your memory usage (Not that it really matters).



um, no, its how the cards change clocks from 2d to 3d, check your facts, with it dissable the card will not auto switch to 3d clocks, you will be forced to run atitool every time u want to game using 3d clocks.

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=199274



> GPU and MEM only running at 2D clock speeds since ATT installation.
> 
> Ouestions and complains about cards running only 2D clockspeeds since ATT installation come up over and over again. Most times it is 100% PEBKAC and I understand, because i'm also used to click away anything pooping up under windows as fast as possible and to make heavy use of checkboxes, that keep ugly popups away in the future. So I did with the first screen ATT ever showed me and then I went to several forums and asked for help. (Not that I used the search function on the forums. My problems are always unique and people are interested to hear about them.)
> 
> ...



i just love how some people think they know what they are doing then give others advice that acctualy hampers the persons performance or system reliability.....

if you dissable this like he says you must MANUALY clock your card up to 3d clocks EVERY TIME you want to run a game and get 3d performance out of your card......... shadedshunutkick:


----------



## diileri (Feb 3, 2008)

Well... I think I'm changing to vista x86 or even back to XP, since I really don't want to spend no more time to find a way to circumvent the fact that ATT doesn't run easily on vista64.
As I mentioned in the first place, ATT doesn't even start under vista64 because the driver cannot be loaded and started properly.
*sigh*


----------



## thegave (Feb 3, 2008)

Hah thanks for the warning Chilly. I never check the box to permanently disable because I don't like making things permanent, a bit of a commitmophobe.

Anyway I was rereading the first post again and noticed not one, but two disturbing things:

1. 





> The X1950PRO and GT are GPUs that need voltage increases to be able to be overclocked, just to obtain a 50mhz overclock on the core and have it run without artifacts needs the voltage to be increased, however problems arise here as no program at the moment supports voltage increasing. This can only be done by flashing the bios itself, go to Ketxxx’s bios thread to obtain bioses (a database of his bioses will be uploaded soon). ATIFlash is the only program that supports flashing of the RV570, other programs will not detect the RV570 as an adapter.



I used ATI WINFLASH to flash my X1950 and it worked fine. I think.

But more importantly,
2. I haven't been added to the current members list.. =(

Just again to remind you:

Sapphire X1950Pro 512mb AGP 
Working
Current OC 661/823
AC X2


----------



## ChillyMyst (Feb 3, 2008)

diileri said:


> Well... I think I'm changing to vista x86 or even back to XP, since I really don't want to spend no more time to find a way to circumvent the fact that ATT doesn't run easily on vista64.
> As I mentioned in the first place, ATT doesn't even start under vista64 because the driver cannot be loaded and started properly.
> *sigh*



search the forums, theres a way to perm dissable the stupid UAC block of unsigned drivers on x64 vista, but personaly i would just install xp64 and not bother with vista, to many damn buggs!!!!


----------



## diileri (Feb 4, 2008)

Well... I decided to go with vista x86 
No problems so far. All the software I need are working like charm. Thanks to all who committed their time for my li'l problem


----------



## diileri (Feb 4, 2008)

04:48 local time:
Holy sh--t! I hope I didn't kill my radeon...
1. I backed up the original VGA bios 
2. I started to flash the card's bios and it all went to hell 
Screen corrupted as soon as I started the flashing... No response to keyboard or mouse, so I unwillingly pressed reset button.
During boot: blank screen and *beep beep beep* 

Can I force flash bios in dos or windows?
I can use PCI or AGP card simultaneously with my pcie x1950pro...

btw, can't get winflash to start at all 

07:49 local time, the story so far:
Panic is not for me...
I managed to boot up my system using _old_ agp card (Nvidia Riva TNT2 M64) and started to search the internet for answers.
Since I didn't find any conclusive answers, I thought that it doesn't hurt to try flashing in dos.
So I searched the internet for guides how to make my USB memory stick bootable, with little hope.
I didn't find any boot images that don't need floppy, so I started to edit my Hiren's boot CD image with power iso.
So I managed to "slipstream" the Atiflash executable and my backup vga rom-image to the cd bootable and booted the system.
Praise the creator, it worked. I ran the flash utility, checked the info it gave. OK. I checked if it recognizes my x1950, it did! Woohoo!
Then I flashed my backup rom to the card's eeprom (it took about a nanosecond, it's like _really_ fast), turned off my comp and took out the agp card.
With my toes and fingers crossed, I turned the PSU switch to on position (usually my system boots after AC-loss) and nothing happened. WTF?
So I pressed the power button... couple of beeps as usual... waiting, and then my monitor's power led turned from amber to green! IT WORKS!
It still works 

08:00 local time:
The lesson to learn from this is: Never ever (and I do mean never) use bios flash programs running under windows to "upgrade" your VGA-card! (I know I won't  )


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 4, 2008)

ChillyMyst said:


> um, no, its how the cards change clocks from 2d to 3d, check your facts, with it dissable the card will not auto switch to 3d clocks, you will be forced to run atitool every time u want to game using 3d clocks.
> 
> http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=199274
> 
> ...



Sorry my bad >_<....

We all make mistakes. Thanks for correcting me, change your atitude however...



diileri said:


> 04:48 local time:
> Holy sh--t! I hope I didn't kill my radeon...
> 1. I backed up the original VGA bios
> 2. I started to flash the card's bios and it all went to hell
> ...



Good luck on flashing it once again!


----------



## ChillyMyst (Feb 4, 2008)

upgraded many a x800pro vivo to xt pe with winflash, never had a problem......but then again i also keep a boot disk around for blind flashing of cards that error


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## thegave (Feb 4, 2008)

Winflashed my X1950Pro because I'm a lazy sod.

Hey out of curiosity, should the BIOS vmod be disabled before a physical vmod is done? Is there any kind of interaction or does it not matter since the BIOS vmod isn't being recognised anyway?


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## Deleted member 24505 (Feb 4, 2008)

personally,i think if you do a hard vmod,its better to use a normal bios.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 5, 2008)

well im back to full strength, Installed NF 5.10 with 11.16 IDE, Installed Catalyst 7.6, all is well now, Just wish ATI would let us know when they release AGP drivers, or better yet have the 3rd parties release their own to make the products unique from one another.


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## ChillyMyst (Feb 5, 2008)

god no, i dont want to see each card maker put out their own moded drivers, i remmber those days, they sucked.

you must be to young to remmber when 20 companys using the same chips all used their own driver versions......god that was a pain.....

as to agp, depends on the system, my buddy said the 8's are working with his agp cards, the 8's work with this x1300 agp i have in my mothers system(use it to play movies and for her to do work on  )

try the omega's he has an agp mode for the newer drivers that use a mix of old and new files, his latist drivers are still the 7.12's tho, but they do work with the agp cards!!!!!


----------



## peach1971 (Feb 5, 2008)

> if you dissable this like he says you must MANUALY clock your card up to 3d clocks EVERY TIME you want to run a game and get 3d performance out of your card



Nope.
Just use _Auto Overclocking_ in ATi Tray Tools.  
I have permanently disabled the ATi Hotkey Poller and ATT does it auto 2D/3D OC job very well! 

2D: 284 MHz http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/vexp7/

3D: Automatically switching to 621 MHz while Hotkey Poller is NOT running.






*There is ABSOLUTELY no use for ATi Hotkey Poller when you´re going with ATi Tray Tools.*


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## thegave (Feb 5, 2008)

My ATT doesn't Auto-load with Windows anyway. Hate Auto-loading programs, even if I run them as soon as Windows has fully loaded.

Tigger: By normal bios do you mean normal vcore, or normal everything (including clocks)?


----------



## peach1971 (Feb 5, 2008)

> My ATT doesn't Auto-load with Windows anyway. Hate Auto-loading programs, even if I run them as soon as Windows has fully loaded.


CPU usage: 0%
RAM: 932 KB

Rocket-fast load and doesn´t suck performance, instead saves energy when you´re surfing on TPU!


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## thegave (Feb 5, 2008)

It's good clicking practice.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 6, 2008)

Well i have no clue as to why the 3D core was being dumped (DX 9C, and Games not loading)
So i went back to what works, maybe after i get some good backup software i will try a newer driver.



ChillyMyst said:


> god no, i dont want to see each card maker put out their own moded drivers, i remmber those days, they sucked.
> 
> you must be to young to remmber when 20 companys using the same chips all used their own driver versions......god that was a pain.....
> 
> ...


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## thegave (Feb 6, 2008)

tk make me a real member and I'll give you an e-hug


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## ChillyMyst (Feb 6, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> Well i have no clue as to why the 3D core was being dumped (DX 9C, and Games not loading)
> So i went back to what works, maybe after i get some good backup software i will try a newer driver.



make sure you update dx to latist versions, then uninstall drivers, restart to safe mode and run driver cleaner, then restart and install the drivers, that SHOULD work!!!!


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 6, 2008)

ChillyMyst said:


> make sure you update dx to latist versions, then uninstall drivers, restart to safe mode and run driver cleaner, then restart and install the drivers, that SHOULD work!!!!



CM the DX was up to NOV 2007, i had it updated on previous install and that problem occurred, but all is well now, also to the fact ATI apparently is releasing AGP drivers every 3 months, since 7.8 7.9 didnt work and i believe 7.10s didnt either.


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## ChillyMyst (Feb 6, 2008)

as i understand it the problems stim from the brige chip used, the 8's are working on most peoples systems it seems, if you dont have a sink on the brige chip ADD ONE, use some thermal tape, that chip gets so hot it will blister ur finger if u touch it


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## thegave (Feb 6, 2008)

The Rialto bridge chip?

Mine has a piece of weird pink-fleshy coloured thing on it.. I would imagine its some kind of thermal tape. If I sink the chip should I just stick the sink on top of the weird pink thing or take it off and sink the chip directly?


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## ChillyMyst (Feb 6, 2008)

thegave said:


> The Rialto bridge chip?
> 
> Mine has a piece of weird pink-fleshy coloured thing on it.. I would imagine its some kind of thermal tape. If I sink the chip should I just stick the sink on top of the weird pink thing or take it off and sink the chip directly?



they normaly cut the center out of the pink thing, if not do that, so that your heatsink you add will stick dirrectly to the core of the chip, remmber this chip gets HOT u need a decent sized chipset sink to properly cool itnot ur avrage ram sink.

i used a cooler that was off the shouthbrige of a board i had, about size of the old 486 heatsinks, made a world of diffrance, card had stability issues b4 now its rock stable


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 9, 2008)

hey anyone running UT3 on a AGP 1950 Pro 512 at max detail on a 1280x1024 screen without any chopiness?


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## thegave (Feb 9, 2008)

Um.. There is a hole in the middle, but it's not very big. About 2mm squared max.. will the heatsink still be able to touch the core? The pink thing is pretty thick.

I'm planning to chop up my old stock Dell hsf for the Rialto and the ram and mosfets and whatever other things you think I should sink..

How big should I make the individual ones? Can they be smaller since they're taller? NB sinks tend to be pretty big, didn't know SBs were sinked..

Um haven't tried running UT3 yet. But COD4 runs great at 1280x1024 highish settings not max though. By great I mean like 40+


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 9, 2008)

it wont touch, your better off taking that pink thing off applying AS5 Epoxy with AS5 Compound mixed in and sticking a chipsink on it that wont intefere with the slot. Just get recommendations from here before removing that pink thing


thegave said:


> Um.. There is a hole in the middle, but it's not very big. About 2mm squared max.. will the heatsink still be able to touch the core? The pink thing is pretty thick.
> 
> I'm planning to chop up my old stock Dell hsf for the Rialto and the ram and mosfets and whatever other things you think I should sink..
> 
> How big should I make the individual ones? Can they be smaller since they're taller? NB sinks tend to be pretty big, didn't know SBs were sinked..


----------



## thegave (Feb 9, 2008)

Ugh damnit I don't have any arctic adhesive.

I'm just gonna use as5 with a drop of araldite.

anyone else, should i rip off the pink pad?


----------



## erocker (Feb 9, 2008)

Don't mess with the pink thing... TRUST ME!!!!  Leave it alone.  Not worth it.  Dead end.  BEWARE!!!  Seriously.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 9, 2008)

ya i wouldnt run it without it unless if you put a heatsink on.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 9, 2008)

Well looky Here, it appears the DX problem was driver related after all

http://support.ati.com/ics/support/kbAnswer.asp?questionID=31542

http://www.ngohq.com/news/13268-ati-catalyst-8-1-hotfix.html


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## Widjaja (Feb 9, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> it wont touch, your better off taking that pink thing off applying AS5 Epoxy with AS5 Compound mixed in and sticking a chipsink on it that wont intefere with the slot. Just get recommendations from here before removing that pink thing



Don't rip off the cards pink bit.

The fleshy pink bit is the rialto bridge chips thermal pad, placed there to help dissapate heat from the chip, it's pretty much the Rialto bridge chip's heatsink.
I don't know why they would place a hole in the centre though.

Apparently the bridge chip is the cause of the heat from the X1950pro AGP compared to the PCI-E version.

I wouldn't be surprized either as my card idles at 55-56C and 82-86C max load in summer.
Hasn't messed up on me once.


----------



## grunt_408 (Feb 9, 2008)

erocker said:


> Don't mess with the pink thing... TRUST ME!!!!  Leave it alone.  Not worth it.  Dead end.  BEWARE!!!  Seriously.



ROFL My GF tells me that all of the time! Nah just kidding, On a more serious note that thermal pad on the backside of the AGP's is there for a reason. I wouldnt take it off.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 9, 2008)

i wouldnt remove it and then not replace it with a heatsink.


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## Widjaja (Feb 9, 2008)

You'll have to find somthing which will be effective as a heatsink.
Maybe cut down a passive SB heatsink?

If you want your card to be the guinea pig go for it, I think alot of people would be interested in the results.

I know the early Sapphire X1950pro AGP's used to have a X shaped bracket on the back which needed a corner of the rialto chip's thermal pad to be cut off as pictured at the bottom of the first page in this driver heaven review.
http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/Sapphire X1950Pro AGP/index.php

Unsure of the reason for the bracket being removed in later cards.


----------



## thegave (Feb 9, 2008)

I don't know if I'm not being clear or if people aren't reading my question properly so here it goes again:

*Should I take off the pink thermal pad in order to put a heatsink on the Rialto chip, or should I just stick the heatsink on top of the pad?*

If I stick it on top then the heatsink won't be touching the actual chip itself and I don't know how well the pad conducts heat.

I'm planning to chop up a stock Dell s478 heatsink, which I've just realised is fucking massive, so I may take the NB sink off the Dell mobo, or chop up my X800 (RIP) stock cooler..

Off topic, I didn't know the earlier Sapphires already had the heatsink for the vregs. They're smart cookies. But those were part of the stock cooler weren't they? So taking the stock cooler off left the vregs exposed?

Second question:

*How should I go about attaching this heatsink? I don't have Arctic Alumina Adhesive and tbh I'm too lazy/cheap to go out and buy some so I was thinking a dab of Araldite (regular epoxy) surrounded by thermal paste?*


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 9, 2008)

ok man the little pink pad is not an adhesive so it wont transfer heat to the heatsink you intend to use, besides that space in the middle will defeat the purpose of the heatsink if the pink pad was adhesive. If you dont intend on putting a heatsink on the chip leave that pink pad there, if you intend on removing it, make sure to clean off the chip and apply AS5 Epoxy with AS5 Compound to make a semi permanent Contact (Holds the sink on but allows you to remove it if you decide to upgrade it) Make sure to apply the Heatsink to the Epoxy after you apply it to the chip. the AS5 Compound Mixed with the Epoxy worked wonders for a Mobility Radeon 9800 256 in a Dell Inspiron XPS/9100 laptop. Also if you want an example look here the little silver metal plate is ontop of 4 Ram Modules, I removed that plate and installed tweakmonster ramsinks and it allowed bettercooling for overclocking (351/300-->459/417) http://www.overclockers.com/articles1200/index02.asp



thegave said:


> I don't know if I'm not being clear or if people aren't reading my question properly so here it goes again:
> 
> *Should I take off the pink thermal pad in order to put a heatsink on the Rialto chip, or should I just stick the heatsink on top of the pad?*
> 
> ...


----------



## thegave (Feb 9, 2008)

What about mixing regular epoxy (Araldite) with AS5 instead of using Arctic Silver's special stuff?

Is there anything to prove AS Epoxy is better than regular stuff?


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (Feb 10, 2008)

hd3870 prices have fianlly gone down on teh egg ...


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 10, 2008)

thegave said:


> What about mixing regular epoxy (Araldite) with AS5 instead of using Arctic Silver's special stuff?
> 
> Is there anything to prove AS Epoxy is better than regular stuff?



The Thermal Epoxy is thermally conductive, regular epoxies are just glue.


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## tkpenalty (Feb 14, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> The Thermal Epoxy is thermally conductive, regular epoxies are just glue.



Yep, regular expoxies should only be applied on the sides of the heatsink and chip, just to hold them down.


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## erocker (Feb 14, 2008)

For the Rialto chip.  Leave the pink thing on as it covers the resistors around the Rialto chip.  Use a small drop of thermal epoxy directly on the chip in the center of the pink stuff and place the heatsink on.  Done.


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## tkpenalty (Feb 14, 2008)

erocker said:


> For the Rialto chip.  Leave the pink thing on as it covers the resistors around the Rialto chip.  Use a small drop of thermal epoxy directly on the chip in the center of the pink stuff and place the heatsink on.  Done.



+1


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## thegave (Feb 14, 2008)

erocker said:


> For the Rialto chip.  Leave the pink thing on as it covers the resistors around the Rialto chip.  Use a small drop of thermal epoxy directly on the chip in the center of the pink stuff and place the heatsink on.  Done.



A small drop to create thermal contact between the sink and the chip but don't fill the hole?

What about filling the hole with AS5 and using a bit of glue on the pink pad to hold the hs down


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## tkpenalty (Feb 15, 2008)

thegave said:


> A small drop to create thermal contact between the sink and the chip but don't fill the hole?
> 
> What about filling the hole with AS5 and using a bit of glue on the pink pad to hold the hs down



Try that, but it only works if the pad is lower or on the same level as the chip itself.


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## tkpenalty (Feb 15, 2008)

whats going on to the clubhouse =_+ *bumps*


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## happita (Feb 16, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> whats going on to the clubhouse =_+ *bumps*



I want to be a member tk 

I just updated my system specs today. I ordered the whole thing this week, should all be here by tuesday. I'm so excited!!! 


Also I just had a suggestion. As I was reading through your entire first post, I noticed in the contents that you have recommended air coolers for the earlier generation ATI cards but none for the HD3k series. Well, I think it would be a good idea for you to post this and other people's experiences along with it


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## thegave (Feb 16, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Try that, but it only works if the pad is lower or on the same level as the chip itself.



But it won't be because the pad is stuck on top of the chip isn't it? How about cutting a larger hole into the pad so it exposes more (or all) of the rialto chip while still covering the resistors?

I'm still not on the member list =(


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 16, 2008)

thegave said:


> A small drop to create thermal contact between the sink and the chip but don't fill the hole?
> 
> What about filling the hole with AS5 and using a bit of glue on the pink pad to hold the hs down



AS5 doesnt work very well in excessive quantities, i should know with the Inspiron 9100/XPS laptop.


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## tkpenalty (Feb 17, 2008)

thegave said:


> But it won't be because the pad is stuck on top of the chip isn't it? How about cutting a larger hole into the pad so it exposes more (or all) of the rialto chip while still covering the resistors?
> 
> I'm still not on the member list =(



I'll get to it... i havent got to it for the 8 series clubhouse too. You're in so remind me some other time to add you on the list. 

No, we mean make a heatsink the size of the hole. Keep the pink pad as it is keeping the capacitors around it cool. Make a heatsink the size of the hole (pretty hard), and then use thermal adhesive to directly stick it on. Even AS5, just be careful not to put too much as it will squeeze to the sides. Its a mess to clean up so yeah...


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## Widjaja (Feb 17, 2008)

@ TheGave

Here's just an idea, the Microcool Passive Southbridge heatsink might fit on the Rialto Bridge chip without cutting it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Microcool-South...918986QQcmdZViewItem?IMSfp=TL0802141070a33341

Possilbly use some thermal conductive epoxy on top of the pink pad and place the heatsink directly on top.


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## thegave (Feb 18, 2008)

tk: the hole is friggin tiny! it's like 2mm x 5mm ... I thought someone said something about the rialto needing serious cooling, like a SB chipset sink at minimum, ram sinks wouldn't do?

what about getting a piece of double-sided thermal tape the same size as the pink pad and replacing the pink pad with it so it covers all the caps and chip and then getting a sink the same size as the pad to stick on top, so everything is cooled by the sink?

Widjaja: that's what I was thinking but most people are saying the pink pad doesn't/wont conduct heat, and that still leaves the problem of the hole in the pad, which will make a very good insulating pocket for the Rialto


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## tkpenalty (Feb 19, 2008)

thegave said:


> tk: the hole is friggin tiny! it's like 2mm x 5mm ... I thought someone said something about the rialto needing serious cooling, like a SB chipset sink at minimum, ram sinks wouldn't do?
> 
> what about getting a piece of double-sided thermal tape the same size as the pink pad and replacing the pink pad with it so it covers all the caps and chip and then getting a sink the same size as the pad to stick on top, so everything is cooled by the sink?
> 
> Widjaja: that's what I was thinking but most people are saying the pink pad doesn't/wont conduct heat, and that still leaves the problem of the hole in the pad, which will make a very good insulating pocket for the Rialto



A small ramsink will do. The rialto chipset doesnt run THAT hot. If it did it would spurt out a flame. 

No that wont work. Just stick a small ramsink on top of it, and you will be fine... the pink pad  I reckon is a protection pad as the capcacitors on it are extremely fragile. I wouldnt try ripping it off... you will tear off some capacitors doing that.


----------



## thegave (Feb 19, 2008)

Are you guys sure it covers caps?

I had a closer look at it yesterday while I was rebuilding and it seems to be pretty flush with the chip on all sides...

I took some pictures for you to look at... 

Doesn't seem as if there's anything besides that chip underneath. Unless there are holes in the chip where capacitators are, or there are capacitators on the surface of the chip...

http://rs159gc.rapidshare.com/files/93131594/IMG_4458.JPG
http://rapidshare.com/files/93131597/IMG_4461.JPG
http://rapidshare.com/files/93131596/IMG_4460.JPG
http://rapidshare.com/files/93131595/IMG_4459.JPG

Goddamnit those are sucky pictures


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## Widjaja (Feb 19, 2008)

Looking at my X1950pro, I don't think it has anything under it other than the chip itself.
You need some definite anwsers.

Like. . . will I damage the Rialto Bridge I remove the pink thermal pad and clean the chip immaculately, then replace it with a SB heatsink which has an adhesive thermal pad.

Thing is, I'd say no one has done it so no definitive answer.
But hey you could be the first to give such an answer if you don't mind the chance of the card not working.

I don't overclock my card since it runs fine as it is.
Yes it does run damn hot at times 86degC max load but I have never had an issue with it.


----------



## thegave (Feb 19, 2008)

I'm gonna do it with the vreg heatspreader that came with my ARtic Cooling since I have two that I don't really need...

Back with pics

Pics

http://rapidshare.com/files/93207143/IMG_4462.JPG

Looks like the GPU, it's a bunch of little caps on the surface of the chip with the realto core slightly raised. 

i'm trying (and failing) to stick a small piece of thermal tape the same size as the hole on to the rialto core and then stick my vrm heatspreader on top. it's not working very well. mostly because i'm not letting the araldite set...

but on a completely unrelated note, i did the 1.4v vgpu mod, which made the card artifact as soon as i started the att 3d renderer. so i did the 1.30 (1.35?) vgpu mod and now i'm artifact scanning on 668 stable for 13 minutes. 

not sure if i ishould leave it on to burn in over dinner, or take it out and let the heatspreader stick..

more interesting notes

araldite doesn't stick to the pink thermal pad particularly well, which I found odd. it rubbed off very easily. I ended up removing the thermal pad, taking two pieces of thermal tape off the stock hsf and placing them side by side on top of the chip and then the ac heatspreader on top. seems to be working, haven't had any crashes and the heatspreader is still more or less attached. 

speaking of crashes, i left it to bench over dinner and it ended up going for 6 hours while i had some drinks with mates. the "no errors" time didn't match up with the "running for" time which I'm assuming meant it had artifacted at some point while I was gone, but I noticed that my ghetto cooling mod had fallen out of place so that could have been why.

Speaking of my ghetto cooling mod, I discovered that the VRM sink still gets quite hot to the touch after the voltmod, so I duct-taped the fan off my stock 3.4ghz northy hsf to the card so it blows air on it..

Now artifact scanning at 681/823 see how it goes. Stable so far at 8 minutes.

By the way do I need to be running a 3D app while using ATi Tool? it's what Alp from the 0.27beta thread keeps telling me.... he said ati tool on its own doesn't detect 3d mode very well....

more pics

The most ghetto mods you will ever see

-VRM sink mod
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/the_gave/IMG_4463.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/the_gave/IMG_4464.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/the_gave/IMG_4466.jpg

-Rialto chip mod
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/the_gave/IMG_4477.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/the_gave/IMG_4476.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/the_gave/IMG_4473.jpg


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 20, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Looking at my X1950pro, I don't think it has anything under it other than the chip itself.
> You need some definite anwsers.
> 
> Like. . . will I damage the Rialto Bridge I remove the pink thermal pad and clean the chip immaculately, then replace it with a SB heatsink which has an adhesive thermal pad.
> ...




The rialto bridge chipset has capacitors which are small and fragile. The pink pad is for preotection. One would assume that tearing them off could possibly tear off the fragile capacitors with them.



thegave said:


> I'm gonna do it with the vreg heatspreader that came with my ARtic Cooling since I have two that I don't really need...
> 
> Back with pics
> 
> ...



You just made your X1950PRO look a whole lot cooler (lame pun).

Seriously those VRMs need a LOT of cooling, the VRM plate from AC isnt enough.


----------



## thegave (Feb 20, 2008)

Hahahahahah whoops never thought abuot that. Nah I don't think they're that fragile. I was ripping thermal tape off and putting it back on all afternoon and i didn't notice any come off. I know this because I kept checking the underside of the pad to see if it was making good contact with the core and teh caps, which it seems to be.

My card came with sapphire's special vrm heatsink..I think I posted a picture of it when I first started posting in here. It actually has fins and is really much better than the AC heatspreader, which is why I was suprised how hot it was getting.


----------



## Widjaja (Feb 20, 2008)

Ghetto alright!
As long as it works well and or better than stock.

Next is to make the mods soild so no duct tape.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 20, 2008)

thegave said:


> Hahahahahah whoops never thought abuot that. Nah I don't think they're that fragile. I was ripping thermal tape off and putting it back on all afternoon and i didn't notice any come off. I know this because I kept checking the underside of the pad to see if it was making good contact with the core and teh caps, which it seems to be.
> 
> My card came with sapphire's special vrm heatsink..I think I posted a picture of it when I first started posting in here. It actually has fins and is really much better than the AC heatspreader, which is why I was suprised how hot it was getting.



Thats good to hear then...


----------



## thegave (Feb 20, 2008)

Problem is I don't know how to make the mod solid... The duct tape on the heatspreader isn't actually doing anything, so I think the thermal pads are holding it quite well. I don't know how else to hold it in place... 

As for the fan, it doesn't have any holes which I found rather annoying in trying to tie it down. There's only one hole on my board too. I found that taping the fan to the X2 housing seems to work slightly better than the duct tape around the card. I'm just a huge fan of duct tape for it's ghetto look. It keeps falling off though so I will need to come up with something more permanent.  

Now the question is... Can anyone hook me up with a vmod for 1.4V gpu?

I tried to follow one for a different card just matching up the resistors but then I found orientation of resistors and solder blobs were different.

Imagine - is a resistor and o is a solder blob, 

my card
-o
-o
-o
o-
o-
-o

the guide's card
o-
o-
-o
-o
o-
-o

Which may explain why I got artifacts the first time I tried it...

I reckon my card's made with some damn good silicon.

Anyhoo, [polite reminder], update my OC to 671/823 please tk. Once I find the gpu max I'll start working on the mem. Would love to get 1700MHz DDR.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 20, 2008)

thegave said:


> Problem is I don't know how to make the mod solid... The duct tape on the heatspreader isn't actually doing anything, so I think the thermal pads are holding it quite well. I don't know how else to hold it in place...
> 
> As for the fan, it doesn't have any holes which I found rather annoying in trying to tie it down. There's only one hole on my board too. I found that taping the fan to the X2 housing seems to work slightly better than the duct tape around the card. I'm just a huge fan of duct tape for it's ghetto look. It keeps falling off though so I will need to come up with something more permanent.
> 
> ...



Nice find, that means your GPU is prevoltmodded...


----------



## thegave (Feb 20, 2008)

Huh does it?

I thought certain rows of solder blobs and resistors had to be bridged to enable various vgpu levels... Mine aren't at all bridged, they're just in the wrong place sometimes... Unless that means the resistor is doing the bridging??


Heh cool stabilised the P4 fan by threading a twizzle tie through a corner mounting hole and then using it to hook on to the fan frame. now the fan sits on the black extension of the X2 housing and the outer-most molex and the twizzle tie holds it close to the board so it doesn't slip.

Cool. More burning in coming
Here's a question for everyone:

To what extent does overclocking the memory affect the gpu overclock? 

And anyone know the hard vmod for more than 1.35v on a Sapphire X1950Pro *AGP* (not the same as the X1950GT)?

I tried to artifact scan with CSS running in a window at 681/823 and then went to eat dinner but when I got back I found an empty desktop so I'm assuming it must have reboot. This is odd, because normally when I get a hard lock on the card it doesn't reboot.

So... Now I'm scanning at 681/756 and it's been ok for 20 minutes (I was at dinner for about this long) but without any other 3D apps running. 

Is it the case that 681/823 is simply too much for my card to handle so by backing off on the memory i can clock higher,
or
was running CSS in a window and the artifact scanner too much for it to take,
or am I not getting enough volts to the gpu?


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 21, 2008)

thegave said:


> Huh does it?
> 
> I thought certain rows of solder blobs and resistors had to be bridged to enable various vgpu levels... Mine aren't at all bridged, they're just in the wrong place sometimes... Unless that means the resistor is doing the bridging??
> 
> ...



To be honest with you, don't even overclock the X1950PRO... even with excessive voltmodding, what you get out of it for your effort, isnt worth it. Maybe a HD3850, but not a X1950PRO.

OFF TOPIC: http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?p=659300#post659300 < just look if you want.....


----------



## thegave (Feb 21, 2008)

=(

volt modding in itself isnt that difficult... it's just connecting traces or resistors. I bought some conductive silver paint which does the job very effectively, temperature isn't a big deal because i'm only loading at 55max. not even games get that hot.... yeeah. I just enjoy the satisifaction of pushing every last drop of power out of my stuff... 

now it's just a matter of knowing which traces to bridge... =(


----------



## KainXS (Feb 22, 2008)

can I join






















I had to remove the X-Fi to check some of the pins on it and the heatsink on the southbridge to lap it.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 22, 2008)

KainXS said:


> can I join
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, HD3870X2?


----------



## KainXS (Feb 23, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Yeah, HD3870X2?



no thats in the system I'm building now(NEW)

updating now

thats a Sapphire 3850, sorry for the confusion.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 23, 2008)

KainXS said:


> no thats in the system I'm building now(NEW)
> 
> updating now
> 
> thats a Sapphire 3850, sorry for the confusion.



Oh okay then.....


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 23, 2008)

Removed the plastic bits on the cooler, why are they there? I think Arctic cooling could cut back on that and save us like one or two dollars... totally unecessary.


----------



## Wile E (Feb 23, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> http://img.techpowerup.org/080223/IMG_0165.jpg
> 
> Removed the plastic bits on the cooler, why are they there? I think Arctic cooling could cut back on that and save us like one or two dollars... totally unecessary.



Because the looks of the components are a strong selling point to many people.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 23, 2008)

Wile E said:


> Because the looks of the components are a strong selling point to many people.



Thats somewhat true...


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 23, 2008)

any good drivers for 1950 Pro AGP 512?


----------



## Widjaja (Feb 23, 2008)

I'm using the 7.12cat still with my Sapphire X1950pro 512MB AGP and haven't had a problem.
Too lazy to change the drivers plus the 8800GT is in the post so I won't be using the X1950pro soon.


----------



## DaedalusHelios (Feb 24, 2008)

tkpenalty can I join?  The Sapphire 3850 512mb with vf900 installed. 850 Core 2.1Ghz Memory and 1.274V.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-9/1276452/HPIM0657.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-9/1276452/HPIM0672.JPG

Bench:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-9/1276452/3DMark_2006_v102oc4E.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-9/1276452/cpuz3rdcomp.jpg


----------



## thegave (Feb 24, 2008)

Cat 7.12s are still the best. For the X2 the black plastic thing helps channel air towards the vregs doesn't it?

Oh and I thought I had mentioned this, but I did the 1.47v gpu mod... Seems to have worked, no way or knowledge of how to measure vgu correctly but core temp is up a couple of degrees. Have been burning in slowly at 675 core(?) Artifacts pop up but but only like once an hour, if not less... And I barely notice them myself. Temps peak at 56, no higher so that's still about 15 below peak on stock with stock cooler. I'm going to redo the Rialto heatspreader with some proper new Sekisui tape which should hopefully a)make better contact with the chip and resistors, and b)hold the heatspreader on properly. At the moment its not sticking very well and there are gaps etc, think this contributes to instability...


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 24, 2008)

thegave, if your card is artifacting thats not good, thats showing something is overheating, the card will continue to get worse. but one thing does it artifact in games or test programs? To be honest i wonder why ati left the rialto chip exposed the way they did they could of caped it like the CPUs.


----------



## thegave (Feb 25, 2008)

dont worry its only artifacting in atitool which ive always considered more conservative than realworld apps like games. I say artifacting but i really mean atitool is sporadically reporting artifacts which i cant see it only lasts for less than a second and then goes on for another long period. I doubt its a heat thing since core peaks at 56'C and ive run my baby at 72'C before. However it could have something to do with the Rialto not being sufficiently cooled so i'll have to wait for the sekisui and see. What do you mean cap? Like an integrated heatspreader thAt they put on CPU cores? I reckon its cos the caps are lower than the chip so there wouldnt be any contact between the caps and ihs, unless the caps don't need cooling, then yea a ihs wouldve been a really good idea. They probably didn't just to keep costs down. Then again the GPU doesn't have ah ihs either, just a shim.

Also heat isn't the only thing that causes artifacts, a GPU that doesn't have enough voltage will also artifact, like when overclocking.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 25, 2008)

thegave said:


> dont worry its only artifacting in atitool which ive always considered more conservative than realworld apps like games. I say artifacting but i really mean atitool is sporadically reporting artifacts which i cant see it only lasts for less than a second and then goes on for another long period. I doubt its a heat thing since core peaks at 56'C and ive run my baby at 72'C before. However it could have something to do with the Rialto not being sufficiently cooled so i'll have to wait for the sekisui and see. What do you mean cap? Like an integrated heatspreader thAt they put on CPU cores? I reckon its cos the caps are lower than the chip so there wouldnt be any contact between the caps and ihs, unless the caps don't need cooling, then yea a ihs wouldve been a really good idea. They probably didn't just to keep costs down. Then again the GPU doesn't have ah ihs either, just a shim.
> 
> Also heat isn't the only thing that causes artifacts, a GPU that doesn't have enough voltage will also artifact, like when overclocking.



If you get delta artifacts you dont have enough voltage, however these are more like "warnings" than actual artifacts. However artifacting due to temperatures, i'd really pull the clocks back to prevent any possible degradation of the silicon.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 25, 2008)

thegave said:


> Cat 7.12s are still the best. For the X2 the black plastic thing helps channel air towards the vregs doesn't it?
> 
> Oh and I thought I had mentioned this, but I did the 1.47v gpu mod... Seems to have worked, no way or knowledge of how to measure vgu correctly but core temp is up a couple of degrees. Have been burning in slowly at 675 core(?) Artifacts pop up but but only like once an hour, if not less... And I barely notice them myself. Temps peak at 56, no higher so that's still about 15 below peak on stock with stock cooler. I'm going to redo the Rialto heatspreader with some proper new Sekisui tape which should hopefully a)make better contact with the chip and resistors, and b)hold the heatspreader on properly. At the moment its not sticking very well and there are gaps etc, think this contributes to instability...



Have a feel at the back of your vregs... you will be surprised how hot it is.


----------



## DaedalusHelios (Feb 25, 2008)

Hey tkpenalty, is it a yes? 

Just wondering because you didn't say anything.


----------



## thegave (Feb 25, 2008)

Doesn't make sense to have artifacts at 56'C if I've run at 72'C no problems.

Back of the vregs as in back of the card? 

Maybe I'll squeeze another fan back there.

*Friendly reminder*

You added Kain but not me? =(


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 25, 2008)

thegave said:


> Doesn't make sense to have artifacts at 56'C if I've run at 72'C no problems.
> 
> Back of the vregs as in back of the card?
> 
> ...



eh... forgot. 

Have a touch of the back of the PCB where the vregs are.. I assure you its almost too hot to touch. I placed a heatsink there where there was no actual components/soldering points.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 25, 2008)

DaedalusHelios said:


> Hey tkpenalty, is it a yes?
> 
> Just wondering because you didn't say anything.



Yes as well ur in!  I'm too busy to keep up so give me a knock!


----------



## thegave (Feb 25, 2008)

Well i should have some spare sekisui... Only orderd a 6" strip... =/

Shit I need some heatsinks... Hmm would the Arctic Cooling vreg heatspreader do? haha I need to find some use for them..

How do you tell the difference between delta artifacts and heat artifacts? In ATI Tool I see the world delta pop up briefly when it reports artifacts but I think it always says that... I always thought that once heat artifacts showed up they stayed and don't disappear for a couple of seconds... which is why I'm not so sure it's heat related.

Also you were right about the back of the pcb, it does get quite warm but not too hot to touch. i guess the fan and sapphire's extra little heatsink are doing their job, but i'm still going to put some thermal tape and the other heatspreader just to help things out.


----------



## tkpenalty (Feb 29, 2008)

Err what happened?


----------



## thegave (Feb 29, 2008)

I got an iPhone... =DD..

And I'm waiting for delivery of my 3.2EE

So X1950's on holiday for the week.


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## mitsirfishi (Feb 29, 2008)

funky if your going to get a 3.2extreme edition id recommend upgrading from a stock cooling solution...


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## overclocker (Feb 29, 2008)

so can i join his hd 3850 256mb ddr3?


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## tkpenalty (Feb 29, 2008)

mitsirfishi said:


> funky if your going to get a 3.2extreme edition id recommend upgrading from a stock cooling solution...



Hes using stock?  I'd be interested to see how much more performance your 3.2Ghz EE will give for your X1950PRO...


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## mitsirfishi (Feb 29, 2008)

look at system specs tk dell stock.... thegave get something to cool that down 3.2ee when you get it otherwise you will get toasted


----------



## eidairaman1 (Mar 2, 2008)

ya my 9800 Pro would do the same thing in ati tray tools altho the card was stock speed with a VGA silencer 3 on it, btw it seems the 7.12s didnt do anything for the card, i needed to install the hotfix to make it work with DX etc, I just wonder if this occurred on NF3/Via/Uli Chipsets for Athlon 64 (754/939)


thegave said:


> dont worry its only artifacting in atitool which ive always considered more conservative than realworld apps like games. I say artifacting but i really mean atitool is sporadically reporting artifacts which i cant see it only lasts for less than a second and then goes on for another long period. I doubt its a heat thing since core peaks at 56'C and ive run my baby at 72'C before. However it could have something to do with the Rialto not being sufficiently cooled so i'll have to wait for the sekisui and see. What do you mean cap? Like an integrated heatspreader thAt they put on CPU cores? I reckon its cos the caps are lower than the chip so there wouldnt be any contact between the caps and ihs, unless the caps don't need cooling, then yea a ihs wouldve been a really good idea. They probably didn't just to keep costs down. Then again the GPU doesn't have ah ihs either, just a shim.
> 
> Also heat isn't the only thing that causes artifacts, a GPU that doesn't have enough voltage will also artifact, like when overclocking.


----------



## thegave (Mar 2, 2008)

mitsirfishi said:


> look at system specs tk dell stock.... thegave get something to cool that down 3.2ee when you get it otherwise you will get toasted




yeah that's kind of out of date... my rig is currently setup on my windowsill and I (finally) have a Thermalright XP-120 blowing on my 3.4Ghz northy. I actually ended up completely replacing everything in the dell, so I rebuilt it and am gonna put it on the Bay.

Thanks for the concern though.


----------



## imperialreign (Mar 2, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Hes using stock?  I'd be interested to see how much more performance your 3.2Ghz EE will give for your X1950PRO...



heh . . . tomorrow I'll be seeing just how uncorked two 1950 PROs in xFire will run on a X38 motherboard partnered with a Q6600.  Should be a night and day difference over my current Pentium 4/i975X setup.

I'll have to see how the graphics scores of 3m05/06 look, completely ignoring CPU scores.


BTW, tk, whenever you feel up to it, could you update my info in post#1 to crossfire setup or whatever else.  Both cards are exactly the same - ATI X1950 PRO 256MB GDDR3 BIOS flashed to 610/730


----------



## eidairaman1 (Mar 2, 2008)

bleh 256 edition? Anyways i had to install the 8.1 hotfix for catalyst 7.12 drivers to fix the DX Problem, i think it applies to NF2 chipsets unless if NF3/Via/Uli chipsets are having same problem


----------



## thegave (Mar 2, 2008)

hey tk friendly reminder for me while you're editing imp's details


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## thegave (Mar 4, 2008)

PLEASE HELP

I found a mini capacitator on the floor today and it looks like it might have come off my video card, but I can't work out where it's supposed to go... 

Can someone take pictures of or tell me where all the caps on the Sapphire X1950Pro AGP are located? 

At the moment I have the two big ones next to the Molex connector, one big one just above the right end of the agp metal contacts strip, one small one just above the left end of the agp metal contacts strip. These are all on the front side of the card, and there aren't any on the back.

The cap that fell off is inbetween the sizes of the small one and the big ones and the markings on it say 

47
 6S
9G0

So it may not actually be from my card, it could have come off my X800 but I need to know quickly please thanks 

And also what the hell should I do about it? I think my vga still actually works...


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 5, 2008)

thegave said:


> PLEASE HELP
> 
> I found a mini capacitator on the floor today and it looks like it might have come off my video card, but I can't work out where it's supposed to go...
> 
> ...



Testing it is safer than trying to find a place to solder it back on. < Learnt that from vivkoo 9600GT review .

Yeah seriously, put the card in and test, hold your finger on the power off button in case the screen goes all pink/green.



imperialreign said:


> heh . . . tomorrow I'll be seeing just how uncorked two 1950 PROs in xFire will run on a X38 motherboard partnered with a Q6600.  Should be a night and day difference over my current Pentium 4/i975X setup.
> 
> I'll have to see how the graphics scores of 3m05/06 look, completely ignoring CPU scores.
> 
> ...



Roger that.

Cards even such as the old and venerable X1950PRO are bottlenecked by my E6300/E2160 at stock speeds.... Imperialreign, what scores do you get out of CFing the X1950PROs?


----------



## thegave (Mar 5, 2008)

What do the caps do? Even if it works surely the cap was on it for a reason.. What might happen?


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## imperialreign (Mar 6, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Roger that.
> 
> Cards even such as the old and venerable X1950PRO are bottlenecked by my E6300/E2160 at stock speeds.... Imperialreign, what scores do you get out of CFing the X1950PROs?



srry to the late response, been busy getting my ass kicked by WIN XP the last couple of days, installing my new setup . . .


Anyhow - setup:

Pentium 4HT 524 @ 3.06GHz with 1 1950 PRO @ 575/695 running in x16 - 3856 (all stock speeds)

Pentium 4HT 524 @ 4.14GHz with 1 1950 PRO @ 614/756 running in x16 - 4693
Pentium 4HT 524 @ 4.14GHz with 2 1950 PRO @ 608/729 running in x8/x8 - 6471

new setup:

Core 2 Quad Q6600 @ 2.4GHz with 1 1950 PRO @ 608/729 running in x16 - 5603
Core 2 Quad Q6600 @ 2.4GHz with 2 1950 PRO @ 608/729 running in x16/x16 - 9356


TBH, I think through the massive OC I had on the P4 I had gotten the cards as unbottlenecked as possible, and the NSB was hampering the crossfire setup with only allowing x8/x8 mode . . . but, then again, single card test with the P4 was as OCed as i could get the 1950, and that was good for a few hundred marks in itself.


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## tkpenalty (Mar 6, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> srry to the late response, been busy getting my ass kicked by WIN XP the last couple of days, installing my new setup . . .
> 
> 
> Anyhow - setup:
> ...



P4s oc'ed to that much still suck . Its a fact... Remember when a 8Ghz P4 is still slower than FX-62, ocing a P4 is still pointless! I'd say you can still get more out of the X1950PROs. Try 3Ghz...


----------



## candle_86 (Mar 6, 2008)

sorry delete


----------



## imperialreign (Mar 6, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> P4s oc'ed to that much still suck . Its a fact... Remember when a 8Ghz P4 is still slower than FX-62, ocing a P4 is still pointless! I'd say you can still get more out of the X1950PROs. Try 3Ghz...



Oh, I'm sure I can get a lot more out of them, too   I figure in about a week, once I have the OS install up and stable, I'll prob start OCing the CPU - I'm dead certain with both cards I can break 10k marks with ease in crossfire.  I'm actually wondering if I can get this quad to hit 4GHz . . . we'll see . . . highest stable OC I had on the P4 was 4.6GHz, 50% OC on air.

And yeah, P4's still suck.  L1 and L2 is just crap, plus they tend to run hot, BUS is low with insane multiplier speeds (my P4 had a x23 multi).  The only real benefit I found OCing the SYS was increasing the BUS speed.  CPU benchmarks didn't really see that much of a difference, truthfully, but the increase in the SYS BUS did make a ton of difference.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 8, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> Oh, I'm sure I can get a lot more out of them, too   I figure in about a week, once I have the OS install up and stable, I'll prob start OCing the CPU - I'm dead certain with both cards I can break 10k marks with ease in crossfire.  I'm actually wondering if I can get this quad to hit 4GHz . . . we'll see . . . highest stable OC I had on the P4 was 4.6GHz, 50% OC on air.
> 
> And yeah, P4's still suck.  L1 and L2 is just crap, plus they tend to run hot, BUS is low with insane multiplier speeds (my P4 had a x23 multi).  The only real benefit I found OCing the SYS was increasing the BUS speed.  CPU benchmarks didn't really see that much of a difference, truthfully, but the increase in the SYS BUS did make a ton of difference.



lol yeah... Increasing RAM speeds will improve perf for P4s... I swear Intel would have gone down if AMD were advertising their performance crown back then. Post some OC benchies already! Cant wait to see how the X1950PROs do.


----------



## VroomBang (Mar 10, 2008)

Hi everyone,

Has anyone here ever tried a Sapphire X1950 Pro Ultimate, with the Zalman fan? My regular Pro overheats like a nympho on steroids (idle 81C 100% fan, idle 85C+ on dynamic). I've never overclocked the baby. I'm trying to get it RMA'd.


----------



## imperialreign (Mar 11, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> lol yeah... Increasing RAM speeds will improve perf for P4s... I swear Intel would have gone down if AMD were advertising their performance crown back then. Post some OC benchies already! Cant wait to see how the X1950PROs do.



I still intend to get some benches up, soon as I have this installation of XP under control - been one thing after another this last week . . .

anyhow, I just ran a *quick* OC - just bumped the BUS up to 300 and didn't touch anything else . . . CPU running at 2.7 and I'm seeing  xFire score of 6900  - I've disabled all the Intel crap, Speedstep, C1E, Thermal control, etc . . . IDK, could be CAT 8.3 . . . CCC now reads CrossfireX instead of Crossfire, I might want to rollback to 8.2 and try again.  I might also try re-flashing the cards back to stock speeds, instead of their 5% OC - it's almost as if VPU recover is turning a card completely off half way through . . . which it'll do if the GPU gets to hot and stops responding . . .

I guess I've got something to get to the bottom of this upcoming weekend 

But first, I've got to finish reading through the mobo owner's manual on all these BIOS settings . . . damn, I thought my P5W-DH Deluxe board had a ton of BIOS settings!  This P5E3 ain't no joke, man!


----------



## Widjaja (Mar 11, 2008)

6900 marks in CF is a real ripoff with your rig, considering I was getting high 8K with my system at default settings with an egg frying and now RMA'ed 8800GT xXx.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 11, 2008)

VroomBang said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Has anyone here ever tried a Sapphire X1950 Pro Ultimate, with the Zalman fan? My regular Pro overheats like a nympho on steroids (idle 81C 100% fan, idle 85C+ on dynamic). I've never overclocked the baby. I'm trying to get it RMA'd.



Photo of the card please. Generally there are several designs that sapphire has used. Those temps seem a bit high, UNLESS you have the first revision of the card.


----------



## Widjaja (Mar 11, 2008)

Yeah I have the first revision of the X1950pro AGP.
53 idle and 86degC max on the hottest days.
Not one artifact or lock up.


----------



## Murasame (Mar 11, 2008)

Time for me to join in the fun. Just ordered the sapphire HD3850 512MB from newegg to replace my corrupted x1900gt. Now I just one more gig of ram.


----------



## imperialreign (Mar 11, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> 6900 marks in CF is a real ripoff with your rig, considering I was getting high 8K with my system at default settings with an egg frying and now RMA'ed 8800GT xXx.



alright - just got it sorted out.  It's the new CrossfireX drivers (released with CAT 8.3).  A single card run of 3m06 still netted 5500 marks, so I threw the cards back into xFire, and backed the BUS back down to 266, and only scored 6000.

Then, I decided to remove 8.3 and re-install 8.2 - ran a xFire 3m06 run, and score was 9446; with SYS at stock clocks.


Word of warning, then, to all X1900 series Crossfire users - CAT 8.3 sucks; it's not much better than running 1 card by itself.


----------



## VroomBang (Mar 11, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Photo of the card please. Generally there are several designs that sapphire has used. Those temps seem a bit high, UNLESS you have the first revision of the card.



picture of my naughty sapphire x1950 pro


----------



## VroomBang (Mar 11, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Photo of the card please. Generally there are several designs that sapphire has used. Those temps seem a bit high, UNLESS you have the first revision of the card.



there it is


----------



## VroomBang (Mar 11, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Photo of the card please. Generally there are several designs that sapphire has used. Those temps seem a bit high, UNLESS you have the first revision of the card.



struggled a bit with the picture upload...


----------



## Widjaja (Mar 12, 2008)

Yeah thats the card I'm running right now.
Rev 1
These card have the reference cooler which doesn't do a very good job.
What does the chip in the bottom right hand corner say on it?
Pulse or vItec?
If I'm correct the cards with the pulse chip are earlier than the card with the vItec chip.

Play Colin Mcrae DiRT today about half an hour or so.
Ambient room temp 27deC
Card idle 54degC card Max 82degC max temp.
Gets to 86degC at 34-35degC ambient room temp.

So unless it's locking up or show weird colours in game your card is doing what it should.


----------



## VroomBang (Mar 12, 2008)

The chip in the bottom right hand corner says "Pulse". I can't play games at stock GPU clock freq., temp goes beyond 108C and shuts down the PC. GPU idles at 81C (with 100% fan).
Having to underclock the GPU to 150MHz, clearly unacceptable... The card is 5 months old. Have submited an RMA. The trouble is the replacement would be an identical card. Does it  mean that I'll face the same problem?


----------



## imperialreign (Mar 12, 2008)

VroomBang said:


> The chip in the bottom right hand corner says "Pulse". I can't play games at stock GPU clock freq., temp goes beyond 108C and shuts down the PC. GPU idles at 81C (with 100% fan).
> Having to underclock the GPU to 150MHz, clearly unacceptable... The card is 5 months old. Have submited an RMA. The trouble is the replacement would be an identical card. Does it  mean that I'll face the same problem?



not necessarily - although with an RMA you'll probably get a same card model, there's also a good chance you might get a newer revision card - especially if they don't have any older revisions laying around anymore.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Mar 12, 2008)

this is the second Sapphire 1950 Pro i have, the other basically died with the fact of Causing POST Problems, so far so good with this second one


----------



## Widjaja (Mar 12, 2008)

VroomBang said:


> The chip in the bottom right hand corner says "Pulse". I can't play games at stock GPU clock freq., temp goes beyond 108C and shuts down the PC. GPU idles at 81C (with 100% fan).
> Having to underclock the GPU to 150MHz, clearly unacceptable... The card is 5 months old. Have submited an RMA. The trouble is the replacement would be an identical card. Does it  mean that I'll face the same problem?



So the card has been overheating for 5 months and you did nothing about it?

I think the cooler is faulty.

I'm in the same boat as you atm.
I have just RMA'ed my XFX 8800GT xXx Zalman cooled edition because at stock clocks it will artifact and lock up around 95degC which is already WAY too hot for any card to be running let alone a card with upgraded Zalman cooling.

I believe the Zalman cooler is the source of the problem with my card.
Way more efficent than the reference X1950pro yet it's like it isn't even cooling.

Still why didn't you RMA the card when overheated first time?

RMA.


----------



## VroomBang (Mar 12, 2008)

My card overheated for the first time last Saturday 08-Mar-08. I never experienced overheating before. The thing is I have rarely used my PC for gaming since I bought the card 5 months ago, so I guess it reduced my chances of finding out about the problem earlier.

Edit:
I was thinking about getting a 8800GT myself, but I'm checking first with Asus if it will run on my mobo, since it's limited to PCI x4 mode, according to the doc. Well, it's actually a PCI x16 slot limited to a x4 mode, with a data rate of up to 2GHz/s.


----------



## Widjaja (Mar 12, 2008)

Well RMA the X1950pro.
I think yours was a rare instance.

If your'e getting a 8800GT Good idea to check first.
I know 8800GT's have an issue with VIA motherboards, I'm not sure if the problems is only  related to the XFX 8800GT cards though.
I have never heard of a PCI-E X4 motherboard before.

Just make sure you get a 8800GT with fan control.
There are reports of overheating 8800GT's with stock coolers.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 12, 2008)

VroomBang said:


> The chip in the bottom right hand corner says "Pulse". I can't play games at stock GPU clock freq., temp goes beyond 108C and shuts down the PC. GPU idles at 81C (with 100% fan).
> Having to underclock the GPU to 150MHz, clearly unacceptable... The card is 5 months old. Have submited an RMA. The trouble is the replacement would be an identical card. Does it  mean that I'll face the same problem?



Incorrect. You will not get the same card back or the same revision because they arent manufactured. You'd get the latest revision thats avaliable-and I have to admit that the latest revision totally creams the first revision, which I assume you have with the poor temperatures that you are getting.

However, I would test the power supply to see if its overvolting the GPU because that could be a possibility.

And by the way:

PCI-E 4x will kill any card thats better than a X1950XTX. Any card that runs better than that; as in generally DX10 GPUs will not work properly. HD38xx and 88xx GPUs both suffer from poor performance with PCI-E 4x with the saturation of the bus. 

Therefore, AGP may even be a smarter idea. AGP HD3850.

I'd look at upgrading the rest of the system as well. CPU, RAM, Motherboard, aren't really exactly intend to pair with something such as a 8800, as you want. Problems?

1. CPU-whats the point of an 8800 when it will run just like a X1950PRO (considering if you were running at 16x bandwidth), 8800GTs are bottlenecked even by low-mid end Core 2s...
2. RAM& Mobo - well, 4x slot and a useless AGP slot, and DDR memory slots is honestly holding you back a fair bit.

An upgrade of the CPU, Mobo and RAM would naturally be the best upgrade path that will actually give you something.



Widjaja said:


> Well RMA the X1950pro.
> I think yours was a rare instance.
> 
> If your'e getting a 8800GT Good idea to check first.
> ...



Or get an 8800GT with an aftermarket cooler and a better phase design so the card doesnt commit suicide after a while of use. Definately a smarter option.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 12, 2008)

Even with a bottleneck tk, he will still get better in-game performance out of the 8800. Mostly just bench scores suffer in all but the most extreme cases.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 12, 2008)

Wile E said:


> Even with a bottleneck tk, he will still get better in-game performance out of the 8800. Mostly just bench scores suffer in all but the most extreme cases.



Incorrect. PCI-E 4x remember that. 88xx GPus and HD38xx GPUs die in 4x, with severe implications on performance. So he still has to upgrade the rest of the system.

With the Pentium D, performance isnt so nice, he will be bottlenecked, and yes have better performance vs the X1950PRO, but thats just slightly. It would be natural to assume that with a better CPU the X1950PRO would have even better performance, and I'm not talking about Benchmarking programs such as 3D Marks 05/06. 

you see, my E6300 at 1.86Ghz VS 3.2Ghz with the 8800GT in use, sees a 10FPS average generally, sometimes even more, especially in NFS: PS.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 12, 2008)

The cpu speed doesn't make that much of a difference in 90% of the current games. But you're right about PCIe 4X. I didn't take that into account. Still, I would buy the 8800GT if I were him, and take it with me to a full rig upgrade a little down the road.


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## tkpenalty (Mar 12, 2008)

Wile E said:


> The cpu speed doesn't make that much of a difference in 90% of the current games. But you're right about PCIe 4X. I didn't take that into account. Still, I would buy the 8800GT if I were him, and take it with me to a full rig upgrade a little down the road.



Nup. Why get something that wont work properly now, totally no point.

A motherboard/CPU/RAM upgrade will cost around the same and yet deliver more performance (and squeeze more perf out of his X1950PRO). Then he should get a new GPU, when they are cheaper and actually able to be used properly. 

Pentium Ds/4s Generally bottleneck 3D Performance, its pretty old news, CF Setup Lazzer408 used to have is a classic example. With the Pentium 4 he didnt even notice any real life performance differences. Now chuck in a E6600, his performance went through the roof (for the time). Same story on my current PC, its so damn noticeable in the games I play when the CPU is oc'ed vs not oc'ed.

Anyway, I just noticed how damn hot the 8800GT runs, even with good cooling the PCB gets HOT. X1950PRO looks like an ice cube in comparison. HD3850/HD3870s atm are pretty desirable thanks to their extremely low prices as well.


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## Widjaja (Mar 12, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Anyway, I just noticed how damn hot the 8800GT runs, even with good cooling the PCB gets HOT. X1950PRO looks like an ice cube in comparison. HD3850/HD3870s atm are pretty desirable thanks to their extremely low prices as well.



You only just noticed?
You've had a 8800GT for a while now, didn't you ever use the Zalman which came with yours?

BTW what is the max temp you getting with the S1 on your GT and is it pssively cooled?


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## imperialreign (Mar 12, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> A motherboard/CPU/RAM upgrade will cost around the same and yet deliver more performance (and squeeze more perf out of his X1950PRO). Then he should get a new GPU, when they are cheaper and actually able to be used properly.
> 
> Pentium Ds/4s Generally bottleneck 3D Performance, its pretty old news, CF Setup Lazzer408 used to have is a classic example. With the Pentium 4 he didnt even notice any real life performance differences. Now chuck in a E6600, his performance went through the roof (for the time). Same story on my current PC, its so damn noticeable in the games I play when the CPU is oc'ed vs not oc'ed.



I can completly agree.  My first setup with one 1950 PRO was with a Pentium 4HT shoved into an Intel D101GGC board - no OCing capabilites whatsoever, and I was stuck with horrible playability with games even a couple of years old.  Moving the P4 and the RV570 into an ASUS board, and I was able to open it up a ton by OCing the BUS, and milked even more out with the addition of a 2nd card (thankfully I got for dirt cheap).

And now, booting the P4 to the curb in place of a quad has netted yet even more of a performance gain, not only with one card, but with Crossfire as well (except with CAT 8.3).  i.e. Whereas with the P4 in a 975x board with 2 RV570s I could only manage 22-28 FPS at the most in Crysis, the setup now with a Q6600 in a X38 board is running 32-40 at the same in-game settings I used before.  Just running the GPU bench I saw quite a difference (22 FPS avg compared to 29 FPS avg).

I'm thinking this weekend I might try and open this quad up some, and see how much further the two RV570s will go before their performance plateaus . . .


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## VroomBang (Mar 13, 2008)

Your comments are much appreciated, thanks a lot guys.

The x1950 pro is probably the best card considering my specs, provided it’s stable and properly cooled. 

However, I've kind of lost trust in the Sapphire x1950 Pro cooling system, even with revision 2. I wish I could get the Ultimate, with the Zalman VF900 stock fan, as a replacement for my faulty card.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/15/how-200-goes-a-lot-further/page9.html

If the new card overheats again, I could use an Accelero x2, but it's a hassle on a Sapphire x1950 AGP board, as you need an extra voltage regulator heat spreader module, which is not only sold separately but also needs to be cut to fit the card layout! 
http://www.arctic-cooling.com/vga2.php?idx=90&data=7&disc=

Now I'm not against a little DIY here and there, which can be fun and satisfying , but this goes a little bit too far to my taste. When I buy a PC component, I like it to work for what it’s been designed to do. I could understand the need to upgrade the cooler if maybe I was a serious gamer, pushing the limits of the card, but this is far from being the case. For example I don’t see the point in running games beyond 1024x728 on a 19’’screen and I'll never overclock the CPU or GPU, no matter what.

Another point to consider is that replacing the stock cooler would in theory void the warranty.

When you factor in all these things, it makes sense to sell the new x1950 Pro straight from RMA without even opening the box and buy a HD3850 AGP with the cash, and probably a bit extra.


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## Widjaja (Mar 13, 2008)

I understand how you feel you shouldn't have to cut the vrm heat plate.
There is also the Zalman VF700 or the 900 which might be a bit much fo the X1950pro but at least you know it will work.

I doubt the next X1950pro will be the same.
BTW mark it before you send it away if your paranoid about them sending you back the same card.
It's what I do anyway.

I your situation I would stick with the X1950pro, next get a new CPU.
Just hopefully a C2D will work with your current motherboard.
Then motherboard, ram and new GPU.
after that get a new GPU.


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## candle_86 (Mar 13, 2008)

hmm i have a 1900XTX, am i allowed in?

System is my sig right now lol


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## tkpenalty (Mar 14, 2008)

candle_86 said:


> hmm i have a 1900XTX, am i allowed in?
> 
> System is my sig right now lol



Huh, what happened to the 8800?


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## Widjaja (Mar 14, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Huh, what happened to the 8800?



His storys are really confusing.
His X1900XTX had died yesterday or something and now he's selling a copy of COD4 and buying a 8800GS and another copy of COD4.


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## tkpenalty (Mar 14, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> His storys are really confusing.
> His X1900XTX had died yesterday or something and now he's selling a copy of COD4 and buying a 8800GS and another copy of COD4.



Huh? Wah? Wtf? Lol? Wtfcoptor?  Roflcoptor?

Reinstalled the Zalman fan on my X1950PRO, rotated it around to look neater and used duct tape instead to attatch the fan (zip ties were rattling). Its nice how cool the card runs compared to the 8800GT... 8800GT is very toasty.

So Widjaja, hows your X1950?


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## Widjaja (Mar 15, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Reinstalled the Zalman fan on my X1950PRO, rotated it around to look neater and used duct tape instead to attatch the fan (zip ties were rattling). Its nice how cool the card runs compared to the 8800GT... 8800GT is very toasty.
> 
> So Widjaja, hows your X1950?



Didn't know you had a Zalman fan on  your X1950pro.

My X1950pro is still going strong.
Averages around 82degC max load, high a relatively high idle of 52degC.

But still not one artifact or lockup within the months I've owned it.


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## tkpenalty (Mar 15, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Didn't know you had a Zalman fan on  your X1950pro.
> 
> My X1950pro is still going strong.
> Averages around 82degC max load, high a relatively high idle of 52degC.
> ...



The fan installed onto the AcceleroS1 

BEFORE





AFTER


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## Widjaja (Mar 15, 2008)

Erm both pics have the same fan installed on to the S1.
Interesting your case doesn't seem to have that much in the way of cooling.

Your 8800GT uses an S1 too doesn't it?
Do you have the 8800GT passive or do you have fan(s) added on to the S1 as well? 

Do you leave the side panel off all the time on your rigs?


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 15, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Erm both pics have the same fan installed on to the S1.
> Interesting your case doesn't seem to have that much in the way of cooling.
> 
> Your 8800GT uses an S1 too doesn't it?
> ...



8800GT has a fan near it, but technically its passive. X1950PRO requires the fan since the VRMs run too hot. The fan is rotated in the pic, first pic you can see the wiring, second you cant.


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## thegave (Mar 15, 2008)

Vroombang, if you get one of the newer revision Sapphire X1950's they come with their own vrm heatsink that is independent of the hsf so even if you remove the stock cooler the vrm heatsink will still be attached and it is much much much better than the Arctic-Cooling heat spreader.

Friendly reminder, TK!


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## Widjaja (Mar 15, 2008)

So far I have seen three versions of the Sapphire X1950pro AGP.

1:-Reference cooler version which I have.

2:-Looked to have somesort of X1950GT cooler with a aluminium VRM heatsink.

3:-Another which seemed to have the X1950GT cooler and what is possilby a mosfet setup instead of VRMs.


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## thegave (Mar 15, 2008)

I have number two, I believe. The HSF fan is further away from the DVI connecter/backplate right?

Would you have any idea how many caps there are meant to be on that version?

Still need to solve the mystery of the missing cap


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## 3870x2 (Mar 15, 2008)

the x1950....  The final reign of dominance before the 8xxx series came out, shadows covered the whole of the land.  Legend says that we would be saved, one day, by a card that beheld 2 cores.  Historians maintain that this would be the end of ATI, and they pulled through, and the hero shows up.  Now we await the final battle between the x2 and GX2 to find out who will rule for the next series. GO ATI!


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## VroomBang (Mar 15, 2008)

thegave said:


> Vroombang, if you get one of the newer revision Sapphire X1950's they come with their own vrm heatsink that is independent of the hsf so even if you remove the stock cooler the vrm heatsink will still be attached and it is much much much better than the Arctic-Cooling heat spreader.
> 
> Friendly reminder, TK!



thanks for that thegave

do you know if there's an easy way to distinguish between the 3 revisions without dismounting the hsf? I'm not keen on messing up with the thermal paste unless I have to . 
Widjaja mentioned the chip at the bottom right being Pulse (rev 1) or vItec (rev 2). What about the rev 3?


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## thegave (Mar 16, 2008)

If I had to make an educated guess I would say only the rev with the independent vrm heatsink has its own mounting pins, whereas the older rev with the integrated vrm cooler would have no need. so have a look underneath the vrm heatsink and see if there are two small screws that hold it in place.


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## Widjaja (Mar 16, 2008)

Okay I'll knock down two bird with one stone.

@the gave
This is the rev 1 Sapphire X1950pro 
http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/Sapphire X1950Pro AGP/index.php
Also pictured by vroombang in in page 129.
So if you have the X1950pro with that heatsink you have the revision 1 since you said you have the fan away from the DVI ports.
As you can see there are only two little caps on the rev 1 and thats it.
No caps under the heatsink.
I can't find any pictures of rev 2 and 3 but I know they are both in this huge thread somewhere.

@vroombang
You have a revision 1 Sapphire X1950pro.
There were a few minor changes to rev 1 in the way of components.
e.g removal of the metal support bracket on the back of the card as pictured in the link I gave the the gave. 
The change of the pulse chip to vItec.
But not enough to rename it revision 2.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 16, 2008)

3870X2 is current gen tech, 9800GX2 is supposed to be new gen, cant compare them really, GF9 and R4x are the next line.


3870x2 said:


> the x1950....  The final reign of dominance before the 8xxx series came out, shadows covered the whole of the land.  Legend says that we would be saved, one day, by a card that beheld 2 cores.  Historians maintain that this would be the end of ATI, and they pulled through, and the hero shows up.  Now we await the final battle between the x2 and GX2 to find out who will rule for the next series. GO ATI!


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## thegave (Mar 16, 2008)

Ignore what I said earlier, I was smoking crack.

My hsf fan is next to the backplate. Which I'm guessing makes it a rev2 ?







the vrm heatsink is huge and clearly separated from the rest of the hsf.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 16, 2008)

ya thats how mine is, i think the other one i had before RMA was the original design as adv. on driverheaven


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## thegave (Mar 16, 2008)

So can you tell me how many caps you have on yours? I can see four from my picture..


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## Widjaja (Mar 16, 2008)

@thegave.
Yes yours is the rev 2 model.
The cooling makes more sense than revision 1.
Seriously when I've had the card cranking, if I found the scondary DVI out, gets pretty hot because nearly all the copperfins are pointing towards it.
Although, the revision 2 would be blowing hot air on to the vrm heatsink but still should be better cooling.

Although I'm a bit confused about the pulse chip being on there.
I'm pretty sure they stopped using those and started using vItec chips unless. . . .
Sapphire may have been refurbishing the RMA'ed rev1 cards and adding the new cooler with separate vrm heatsink.

One thing. . . .
Is your card working fine?
Just wondering with all the questions you have asked.

Also show us a pic of the cap you found.


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## VroomBang (Mar 16, 2008)

A better way to spot the difference between rev 1 and rev 2: on my rev1 (see picture page 129), the robot lady is about to punch me in the face (which she did on various occasions), whereas on rev 2 (picture from thegave), she clearly opens her arms and shows me her tits. I think she's trying to make up. I hope all this translates into "I'm running much cooler now".


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## candle_86 (Mar 17, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Huh, what happened to the 8800?



ok 8800GS died, 1900XTX died playing COD4. Gonna order an evga 8600GT and step up later on is the plan now.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 17, 2008)

wow it seems you are in the badluck spot as i was with the 1950 Pro, i had a HIS which i accidently shorted (PLL sink fell on it) then the First Sapphire board quit working after 3 days, i RMAd both and got new ones, lucky the Sapphire is Rev 2.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 17, 2008)

probably be a good idea to upgrade your Powersupply.


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## tkpenalty (Mar 18, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> probably be a good idea to upgrade your Powersupply.



I would have nothing against his PSU if my X1950PRO runs flawlessly on some 530W Generic PSU... It seems to me most of TPU is inactive...


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## VroomBang (Mar 18, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> I would have nothing against his PSU if my X1950PRO runs flawlessly on some 530W Generic PSU... It seems to me most of TPU is inactive...



the x1950 pro needs a continuous (as opposed to max.) combined 30Amp across the 12V rails.

edit:
Not sure if his rosewill 500 meets this requirement.


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## tkpenalty (Mar 19, 2008)

VroomBang said:


> the x1950 pro needs a continuous (as opposed to max.) combined 30Amp across the 12V rails.
> 
> edit:
> Not sure if his rosewill 500 meets this requirement.



Incorrect. Thats ATi's general rating. 30x12AMPS = 360W. There is no way a normal budget-ish system would draw more than 300W on the 12v Rail. Consider the 5v and 3.3v rails as well. 

 Rosewill anyway, arent some very cheap and shitty generic brand.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 19, 2008)

http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/66076/

Read that for recommendations.

Apparently the book for the Sapphire and HIS 1950 Pro suggest a 450 watt powersupply, i have a 500 watt Neo HE and it runs fine.

That extreme powersupply calculator suggests my system draws 378 Watts


----------



## Widjaja (Mar 19, 2008)

VroomBang said:


> the x1950 pro needs a continuous (as opposed to max.) combined 30Amp across the 12V rails.



Really how many times have we gone over this?
ATi is saying, 30A on a +12v single rail PSU if you have a fully loaded system.

Fully loaded system:-
All ports/sockets on the motherboard used.

My PSU is dual 18a +12v rails and ran fine with my X1950pro.


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## VroomBang (Mar 19, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Really how many times have we gone over this?
> ATi is saying, 30A on a +12v single rail PSU if you have a fully loaded system.
> 
> Fully loaded system:-
> ...



I thought my PSU might have been the cause for the x1950 pro overheating after 5 months of not getting enough Amps, but that's according to what I read on Sapphire's forum, so they might just try to blame the psu instead of recognising a fault in their prduct, not sure...

So do you think my psu is good enough for the graphics card:
http://www.jeantech.com/600.htm


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## tkpenalty (Mar 19, 2008)

VroomBang said:


> I thought my PSU might have been the cause for the x1950 pro overheating after 5 months of not getting enough Amps, but that's according to what I read on Sapphire's forum, so they might just try to blame the psu instead of recognising a fault in their prduct, not sure...
> 
> So do you think my psu is good enough for the graphics card:
> http://www.jeantech.com/600.htm



No offense to the sapphire forum mods, but they seriously aren't up to the job. Yes you are right, they always think they are right and never blame it on something else. they claim you need a 600W PSU. My X1950PRO runs off a 430W PSU with less than 30A that they recommend. The first revision was pooooor in terms of cooling - they denied that.


And yes, that PSU is way more than sufficient. Why do you even need to ask? With that kind of PSU quality, I wouldnt worry at all. You also have 38A at your disposal...


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## VroomBang (Mar 19, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> No offense to the sapphire forum mods, but they seriously aren't up to the job. Yes you are right, they always think they are right and never blame it on something else. they claim you need a 600W PSU. My X1950PRO runs off a 430W PSU with less than 30A that they recommend. The first revision was pooooor in terms of cooling - they denied that.



They're good guys nevertheless when you get to chat a bit. I had such a laugh with them lately, they're a good bunch.


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## Widjaja (Mar 19, 2008)

VroomBang said:


> They're good guys nevertheless when you get to chat a bit. I had such a laugh with them lately, they're a good bunch.





I had a run in with one of the members there.
Was obviously a Sapphire fanboi who believed the manufacturer could never do wrong.

Can't remember his user name though, obviously wasn't worth remembering.

The best advice is here.
Could say I'm a TPU fan but only within reason, not just because. . . .
Of course there's still the odd idiot around here who thinks it's thier way or the highway but they quickly get shot down.
Unlike some forums where the idiot runs the show.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 19, 2008)

VroomBang said:


> I thought my PSU might have been the cause for the x1950 pro overheating after 5 months of not getting enough Amps, but that's according to what I read on Sapphire's forum, so they might just try to blame the psu instead of recognising a fault in their prduct, not sure...
> 
> So do you think my psu is good enough for the graphics card:
> http://www.jeantech.com/600.htm



Well i posted a link that has PSU suggestions

If you want to switch to a diff PSU i suggest you keep the other around, cause if the Card still Goofs up or something Request RMA from Sapphire and they shall respond within a day


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## thegave (Mar 19, 2008)

Hey guys well this is the mystery cap that I found..

The markings on it match the rest of the caps on the vga but not the numbers themselves and it is a different size to the rest of them as well.

Also the plastic base thing matches the other caps.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 19, 2008)

find the High Res Pics of the 1950 Pro here and do a comparison


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## tkpenalty (Mar 25, 2008)

thegave said:


> Hey guys well this is the mystery cap that I found..
> 
> The markings on it match the rest of the caps on the vga but not the numbers themselves and it is a different size to the rest of them as well.
> 
> Also the plastic base thing matches the other caps.



Whoa. Thats a big capacitor, i thought it was just a small IC... X1950PRO Right? Its near the 6 pin power connector.


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## Widjaja (Mar 25, 2008)

@TheGave.
Is you card working properly.

If it is I wouldn't worry about it.


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## grunt_408 (Mar 25, 2008)

Hey everyone hows it hanging? Havent been in here for a while lol


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## Wile E (Mar 25, 2008)

Yeah, where the hell have you been? lol


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## revin (Mar 26, 2008)

Craigleberry said:


> Hey everyone hows it hanging? Havent been in here for a while lol



thegaves in deep doo doo!!!

But he's the new proud owner of a..........................................3.2EE


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## Widjaja (Mar 26, 2008)

Hey Craigleberry.

I don't know if thegave is really in Big Doo Doo as he hasn'e said if his card is going or not.
It maybe a cap from something else.
Since he found the cap on the floor.


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## grunt_408 (Mar 26, 2008)

@ Wile E I have just been really busy lately its a good thing I guess but when you want to socialize it isnt. I agree with you Widjaja I think the cap on the floor is a dead giveaway lol.


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## tkpenalty (Mar 26, 2008)

TheGave, take a photo of your PCB's front side near the PCI-E connector. That cap most likely came off the X1950PRO.


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## Widjaja (Mar 26, 2008)

TK
The Gave's X1950pro is a stupid dual molex AGP job form Sapphire.
It's a Rev 2 with the aluminium heatsink.
Just need a decent pic of one really.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 26, 2008)

Same here- works perfectly fine, i guess sapphire was thinking most AGP users wouldnt have really upgraded their PSUs.


Widjaja said:


> TK
> The Gave's X1950pro is a stupid dual molex AGP job form Sapphire.
> It's a Rev 2 with the aluminium heatsink.
> Just need a decent pic of one really.


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## tkpenalty (Mar 27, 2008)

I didnt consider that but it wouldnt change anything with the power filtering-not like Molex plugs supply a different voltage...


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## Widjaja (Mar 27, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> Same here- works perfectly fine, i guess sapphire was thinking most AGP users wouldnt have really upgraded their PSUs.



Yeah but then they go and say you need a PSU with a 30a single +12v rail on thier website.

Who many people with AGP would have a PSU which has that many amps?

How many PSUs with a 30a +12v rail have no PCI-E connectors?


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## tkpenalty (Mar 31, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Yeah but then they go and say you need a PSU with a 30a single +12v rail on thier website.
> 
> Who many people with AGP would have a PSU which has that many amps?
> 
> How many PSUs with a 30a +12v rail have no PCI-E connectors?



Never seen one.


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## Widjaja (Mar 31, 2008)

Exactly.

ATi pretty much saying you will need a new PSU for this card in a round about way.


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## tkpenalty (Apr 2, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Exactly.
> 
> ATi pretty much saying you will need a new PSU for this card in a round about way.



Yeah... well Nvidia say EXACTLY the same phrase so yeah. Its just a way to indirectly advertise high end PSUs. Funny how my X1950PRO runs rock solid stable, and funny how the PSU runs rock solid stable when I only have 18A at my disposal


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## tkpenalty (Apr 3, 2008)

8.3 Drivers are insane! I can max out NFS PS completely at 1280x1024 now, that includes the other settings such as Adaptive AA and Temporal! It runs around 30 FPS as well, compared to before how it used to run at around 25 at only 4x normal AA and AF.

*Bump??!*


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 3, 2008)

well i may end up trying them (Hotfix Drivers)


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## Widjaja (Apr 3, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> well i may end up trying them (Hotfix Drivers)




Hotfix drivers?
Why are you needing them?
Are you still having issues with the X1950pro?


----------



## grunt_408 (Apr 3, 2008)

I have used the 8.3 drivers for my 9800pro aswell havnt benched it as yet though.


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 3, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Hotfix drivers?
> Why are you needing them?
> Are you still having issues with the X1950pro?



Well when i decided to link someone the 8.1 hotfix i found out they changed to 8.3 hotfix, the card i have is excellent as it has lasted me so far 3 months now without any flack, i think its for AGP cards only now.


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 6, 2008)

yesterday, i had my machine apart, i was looking at my 1950 Pro and i noticed 2 DIP switches on it, i wonder what they do.


----------



## Widjaja (Apr 6, 2008)

Yeah I noticed them too.
Need something like a tooth pick to flick them.


----------



## Wile E (Apr 6, 2008)

Iirc, they're to select between NTSC and PAL.


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## imperialreign (Apr 6, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> 8.3 Drivers are insane! I can max out NFS PS completely at 1280x1024 now, that includes the other settings such as Adaptive AA and Temporal! It runs around 30 FPS as well, compared to before how it used to run at around 25 at only 4x normal AA and AF.
> 
> *Bump??!*



seriously?  Maybe it's just NFS?  I noticed a major drop across the board with 8.3 - even worse if I turned on any eye candy . . .



wait, nvrmnd - that was only with Crossfire enabled; never tried the drivers with one card


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## tkpenalty (Apr 7, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> seriously?  Maybe it's just NFS?  I noticed a major drop across the board with 8.3 - even worse if I turned on any eye candy . . .
> 
> 
> 
> wait, nvrmnd - that was only with Crossfire enabled; never tried the drivers with one card



Yeah true, probably it only works better for a single card setup.


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## happita (Apr 8, 2008)

May I join?

I have one 3870 in my specs and is 512MB GDDR4


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## 3870x2 (Apr 8, 2008)

I remember when the 3870 came out, i was all about getting it, then the x2 came out and owned the competition at a very low price, but i went ahead and got the gts 512 because of the fact that the 9900gtx will be coming out, and unlike the 9800gtx, i dont believe it will disappoint.


----------



## -iceblade^ (Apr 10, 2008)

Is it possible for me to join this clubhouse? i have a pic of my PC... 







System Spec: E2160 @ 3.0ghz & 1.4V - 2x1gb GEIL Black Dragon - MSI Neo2-FR - Gecube HD3870 X-Turbo III O.C Edition - Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro - WD 320gb HDD - Hiper HPU4M580 580W - CoolerMaster Elite 330

Card: Gecube HD 3870 X-Turbo III O.C. Edition; 512mb GDDR4, in single GPU config.


----------



## grunt_408 (Apr 13, 2008)

Welcome Iceblade. Hi guys I havnt been in here for a while but I need a help. I already have a Sapphire X1950pro which didnt come with a crossfire bridge. I may be getting a Powercolour x1950 pro That has one crossfire bridge with it. Will they do crossfire with the one connector or will I have to fork out for another.


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 13, 2008)

K guys, have been fairly busy last week and will be busy this week too, regardless of the fact that its the start of the school holidays...



Craigleberry said:


> Welcome Iceblade. Hi guys I havnt been in here for a while but I need a help. I already have a Sapphire X1950pro which didnt come with a crossfire bridge. I may be getting a Powercolour x1950 pro That has one crossfire bridge with it. Will they do crossfire with the one connector or will I have to fork out for another.



I highly doubt you can still get a powercolor X1950PRO... Sapphire, maybe. Why not grab two HD3850s instead?  Joking.


----------



## grunt_408 (Apr 13, 2008)

Nahh dude the powercolour is second hand. I just thought for a little bit of money I can squeeze a bit more out of my current set up before I take the plunge and get one of the newer cards. But you still didnt answer my question I am guessing it wont do crossfire with just one bridge.


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 13, 2008)

Craigleberry said:


> Nahh dude the powercolour is second hand. I just thought for a little bit of money I can squeeze a bit more out of my current set up before I take the plunge and get one of the newer cards. But you still didnt answer my question I am guessing it wont do crossfire with just one bridge.



Oh, yes CF will work with only one bridge installed. Well at least on the newer HD3850s... I'm not clear on the X1950PROs. I think on the older drivers it didn't let CF work with one bridge. I'd just grab another bridge...they don't cost much, and there HAS to be someone you know with a spare bridge.

I wonder when they'll release the HD4k series...


----------



## grunt_408 (Apr 13, 2008)

20 bucks at scorptech is the cheapest I can find for a crossfire bridge lol. Unless someone here wants to post me one lol.


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 13, 2008)

Craigleberry said:


> 20 bucks at scorptech is the cheapest I can find for a crossfire bridge lol. Unless someone here wants to post me one lol.



Well its worth almost double the performance you get with two X1950PROs so why not get it? If you were in Sydney you I'd be able to supply you my CF bridge.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Apr 13, 2008)

i just hope his Monitor is 1600x1200 or Higher.


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 14, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> i just hope his Monitor is 1600x1200 or Higher.



Even under that resolution you will still see subtantial gains, in stuff like Pro Street, COD4, etc. Basically a majority of the newer games.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Apr 14, 2008)

COD4 runs fine for me, 1950 Pro at 1280x1024 75 Refresh.


----------



## imperialreign (Apr 14, 2008)

I'll tell you from my experience - with my two ATI branded 1950 PROs, there is a significant improvement in-game even running lower screen resolutions.  Typically, most newer games I'm stuck with either 1024x768 or 1280x800 if I want to keep the correct aspect ratio, older games I can run my native 1440x900.  Still, though, the way ATi Crossfire works, you'll see an improvement.  Each GPU is now rendering half of what one GPU would at your current settings, so you now have two GPUs rendering the workload of one.  Because each GPU focuses on every other frame, or certain parts of a frame, it's not rendering the whole image - which takes longer for one GPU to do, render a whole image, or only part of it?

Not saying that you'll double your peformance, but you will see a noticeable increase.


----------



## grunt_408 (Apr 14, 2008)

My native res is 1680x1050 BENQ 22" Widescreen. And I have a p35 chipset so I will have one running at half the speed but still I will get an increase and that is what I want. lol. But I dont think It is going to anything untill I get a second crossfire bridge hehehe @TK PM sent.


----------



## Widjaja (Apr 14, 2008)

@Craigleberry.
I wonder what your benchmark will be with your CPU at 3.4Ghz and X1950pros in CF.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Apr 14, 2008)

Craigleberry said:


> My native res is 1680x1050 BENQ 22" Widescreen. And I have a p35 chipset so I will have one running at half the speed but still I will get an increase and that is what I want. lol. But I dont think It is going to anything untill I get a second crossfire bridge hehehe @TK PM sent.



If you can run them in 8X that is best config, the 16+4 doesnt seem to work that well.


----------



## grunt_408 (Apr 15, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> @Craigleberry.
> I wonder what your benchmark will be with your CPU at 3.4Ghz and X1950pros in CF.



More than I get now hopefully. I have my cpu @3.6GHz ATM. It has been like that 24-7 for a while and stable.


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 15, 2008)

Craigleberry said:


> More than I get now hopefully. I have my cpu @3.6GHz ATM. It has been like that 24-7 for a while and stable.



Good luck. I would recommend swapping ur fans for slipstreams on the IFX because the slipstreams work well with Thermalright's towers (because of the packed fin spacing). 



eidairaman1 said:


> If you can run them in 8X that is best config, the 16+4 doesnt seem to work that well.



With X1950PROs, it doesn't matter.


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 17, 2008)

Anyways... what happened. whats with the inactivity ....


----------



## Widjaja (Apr 17, 2008)

No one is having issues with their cards I guess. . . .


----------



## eidairaman1 (Apr 18, 2008)

My 1950 Is flawless despite being the Second one.

CPU is at 217x10.5 1.7Vcore Relaxed Mem 8333 2T

CPU Temp idle is 26 Chipset 33.


----------



## grunt_408 (Apr 21, 2008)

got the second card in today yippey 8024 3d mark 06
When I went to play the first game my heart sank instantly seing artifact like garbled mess on the screen finaly worked out to disable cat A.I


----------



## Widjaja (Apr 21, 2008)

Craigleberry said:


> got the second card in today yippey 8024 3d mark 06
> When I went to play the first game my heart sank instantly seing artifact like garbled mess on the screen finaly worked out to disable cat A.I



As I expected.
1 1/2 cards worth of performance in benchmarks.
But still your frames should be boosted in real world gameplay, not just in a score.

Unexplainable Artifacting.
I know the feeling.
Like the Colin Mcrae DiRT Artifacting with Geometry Instancing off with the Sapphire X1950pro AGP.


----------



## grunt_408 (Apr 21, 2008)

Love that game. Overall I am happy with the gain I got. I am going to pick up an x38 board soon so Crossfire wont totally be wasted. lol


----------



## eidairaman1 (Apr 22, 2008)

Craigleberry said:


> Love that game. Overall I am happy with the gain I got. I am going to pick up an x38 board soon so Crossfire wont totally be wasted. lol



SKip the X38 seems Crashnburnxp has problems going beyond 3.6 with his Xeon Quad.


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 22, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> My 1950 Is flawless despite being the Second one.
> 
> CPU is at 217x10.5 1.7Vcore Relaxed Mem 8333 2T
> 
> CPU Temp idle is 26 Chipset 33.



Same here. Damn these X1950PROs seem to be pro . I'd probably say its the fact that it uses a digital power phase instead of the normal mosfet > coil > capacitor array. I love how AMD keeps squeezing performance out of these cards almost two years after its been released


----------



## Wile E (Apr 22, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> SKip the X38 seems Crashnburnxp has problems going beyond 3.6 with his Xeon Quad.



That has nothing to do with X38. It's his chip. I had my Q6600 up to 4GHz, chip limited, and this QX over 4.5GHz, again, chip limited, on my Maximus.


----------



## Widjaja (Apr 22, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Same here. Damn these X1950PROs seem to be pro . I'd probably say its the fact that it uses a digital power phase instead of the normal mosfet > coil > capacitor array. I love how AMD keeps squeezing performance out of these cards almost two years after its been released



Yeah no faint whiney coil capacitor array.
A-la 8800GT.

I now just crank up the Tuniq Tower CPU fan as I usually have it on low as it's quite loud.

@Craigleberry
Well for what it's worth my brother is using an ASUS P35 Deluxe and has overclocked his E6600 to 3.0Ghz and reduced the vcore to 1.2 something volts on a stock cooler. 

Unfortunately he can't use the CF option as he uses a 8800GTX and won't go to ATi at the moment although he does prefer ATi like myself.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Apr 22, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Same here. Damn these X1950PROs seem to be pro . I'd probably say its the fact that it uses a digital power phase instead of the normal mosfet > coil > capacitor array. I love how AMD keeps squeezing performance out of these cards almost two years after its been released



Certainly Do play Call of Duty 4 well


----------



## grunt_408 (Apr 23, 2008)

I dunnno what to do yet but crossfire is turning out to be a pain in the      .  I am going to buy me a 3870 I think.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Apr 23, 2008)

far easier to implement than SLI, Ya go with a 3870, they seem to be far more stable than 1950 with overclocking, 1 Id recommend looking at is the Visiontek 3870- non factory cooler


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 27, 2008)

I'd go with any brand, EXCEPT Sapphire. Why? Sapphire bloody ripped two of the power phases off the PCB to cut down on costs... Try something like Gigabyte, or ASUS. (Grab a HR-03 Plus for it )


----------



## grunt_408 (Apr 27, 2008)

I am liking the HIS one


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 28, 2008)

Craigleberry said:


> I am liking the HIS one



I would really question what HIS does to their cards so I'd recommend them as a last choice instead...


----------



## Widjaja (Apr 28, 2008)

Craigleberry said:


> I am liking the HIS one



Just make sure you get a good Warranty.
Considering what issues you had with your HIS X1950pro.

BTW found out whats causing the craphic corruption with your CF setup?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Apr 28, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> I'd go with any brand, EXCEPT Sapphire. Why? Sapphire bloody ripped two of the power phases off the PCB to cut down on costs... Try something like Gigabyte, or ASUS. (Grab a HR-03 Plus for it )



The Sapphire Board Works Perfectly Fine.

Also a warning for HIS- it took them over a week for them to respond to my RMA request, Sapphire Took less than a day to respond, Yes i had 2 1950 Pros Died, both are Replaced, i have the HIS as a spare incase this sapphire dies, been good since getting it in January.


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 28, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> The Sapphire Board Works Perfectly Fine.
> 
> Also a warning for HIS- it took them over a week for them to respond to my RMA request, Sapphire Took less than a day to respond, Yes i had 2 1950 Pros Died, both are Replaced, i have the HIS as a spare incase this sapphire dies, been good since getting it in January.



Yeah... I noticed that, Sapphire were lightning quick... then again they are a top tier manufacturer so its expected from them. HIS I wouldn't class there because a card with a good cooler will not make it a top tier card. Hmm with Sapphire ripping off two of their phases... it does make their cards inferior in a sense, then again the HD3870 doesn't even need four Vcore phases! They are single slot these days and I'd reckon made this way to fit on some of the badly designed quad fire boards out there. 

Btw guys, to correct you guys a bit. *THE RV770/R700 WILL HAVE A 512BIT BUS*


----------



## tkpenalty (May 3, 2008)

Bump much?


----------



## the_cracker (May 15, 2008)

Hello I'm new here and I want to be a member of X1950Pro Club. I own a GeCube X1950 Pro and this card is a killer.


----------



## cdawall (May 15, 2008)

haha i forgot to join here

http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/d86su/


----------



## Dangle (May 16, 2008)

I don't know what any of the technical info regarding the RV770.  Will a 4870x2 be much more powerful than a 3870x2?

I have a 2900XT right now, I just want to know if I should get a 4870x2 this year or wait for a 4900.


----------



## Widjaja (May 17, 2008)

@Dangle
I would just wait till they bring out something which is either about the same price as the 8800GT and is better or wait till they release a card which is finally faster than any nVidia card out.

Although you can benfit from a new GPU with your Q6600.

My current GPU is the fastest I can go for at the moment without it being pointles because of my X2 4800+.


----------



## tkpenalty (May 17, 2008)

June 16 guys. The R700 series will be released by then. Pricing looks pretty low for a high end product, nevertheless it is a growing trend that technology is getting cheaper (However... with the CPU monopoly that Intel is doing atm, this isn't really true with CPUs).


----------



## tkpenalty (May 25, 2008)

Where is the love for AMDTI?


----------



## Widjaja (May 25, 2008)

Most of the ATi loyalists would have been taken by nVidia with the 8800GT.

Like myself.

But then again, will have to see how the HD4xxx series goes.


----------



## tkpenalty (May 25, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Most of the ATi loyalists would have been taken by nVidia with the 8800GT.
> 
> Like myself.
> 
> But then again, will have to see how the HD4xxx series goes.



So true


----------



## Wile E (May 25, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Most of the ATi loyalists would have been taken by nVidia with the 8800GT.
> 
> Like myself.
> 
> But then again, will have to see how the HD4xxx series goes.



I guess I can't really disagree with that either.


----------



## tkpenalty (May 25, 2008)

Funny how a lot of people who have a 8800GT used to have a X1950PRO...


----------



## Widjaja (May 25, 2008)

Because most those people who bought the X1950pro are value vs performance concious.


----------



## tkpenalty (May 25, 2008)

GTX280 sounds like a major threat to the HD4xxx...

HD4870's specs on paper don't seem to be anywhere near the GTX280. Unless AMD is aiming at consumer-class, but....


----------



## Widjaja (May 25, 2008)

The GTX280 may lose out depending on the price.


----------



## tkpenalty (May 25, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> The GTX280 may lose out depending on the price.



True but the average consumer usually goes for the manufacturer that makes the better flagship product, even when they are going for a low/mid end product... unless they know a bit more.


----------



## Widjaja (May 26, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> unless they know a bit more.



True.

Good example is a mate of mine who wants to get the 8800 Ultra.

Why?

Because it's the fastest.
The dude is already has a massive credit card debt but he has to have bestest compared to everyone else


----------



## eidairaman1 (May 26, 2008)

why not just go from whatever card he has to a 9800 GTX, reason saying the 9800 GTX runs cooler, draws less power and is probably more cost efficient than the G80.


----------



## imperialreign (May 26, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Most of the ATi loyalists would have been taken by nVidia with the 8800GT.
> 
> Like myself.
> 
> But then again, will have to see how the HD4xxx series goes.



can't say that I have - ATI loyalist here 


BTW, tk, when next you update the OP, change my setup to Crossfired VistionTek HD3870 OC Editions - had to swap two 1950 PROs for two HD3870s


----------



## Widjaja (May 26, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> why not just go from whatever card he has to a 9800 GTX, reason saying the 9800 GTX runs cooler, draws less power and is probably more cost efficient than the G80.



Because he is the average consumer.

Ultra to him sounds better than GTX plus the fact it's more expensive, so to him it means better.

Don't even try to understand.


----------



## tkpenalty (May 29, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> True.
> 
> Good example is a mate of mine who wants to get the 8800 Ultra.
> 
> ...



BIG idiot.


----------



## InnocentCriminal (May 29, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Because he is the average consumer.
> 
> Ultra to him sounds better than GTX plus the fact it's more expensive, so to him it means better.
> 
> Don't even try to understand.



I have a friend who is exactly like that! As his current set up isn't working correctly he's been planning getting a new rig based around a Q9450 but since I've told him about Nehalem and the 4870X2 he's stopped bollocking on about that and won't shut up about Nehalem.

Don't know why I act so surprised, he does this constantly.

Oh and I have a X1950 Pro AGP and a HD3850 AGP -


----------



## Widjaja (May 29, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> BIG idiot.



Yeah it gets worse.
He's also a sore loser when playing against him.
Good examples are driving games and fps games.
If he sees he's losing he will press the escape button before you win or hand the controls to someone who is better just so he can see you lose under his own user name.

You should have seen him when my X1950pro AGP slaughtered his 7600GT PCI-E in 3DMark after his trashing of AGP.
So I says to the horse. . . ."Why the long face?".

Oh yes and locked himself out of his own BIOS.


----------



## InnocentCriminal (May 29, 2008)

People like that don't deserve access to the BIOS.


----------



## tkpenalty (May 29, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Yeah it gets worse.
> He's also a sore loser when playing against him.
> Good examples are driving games and fps games.
> If he sees he's losing he will press the escape button before you win or hand the controls to someone who is better just so he can see you lose under his own user name.
> ...



 OWNED.

My X1950PRO is going to get a cooler swap soon, from accelero to the VF900CU. Mainly because the VF900CU is more compact-old system looks a bit cluttered with the Accelero. I'm moreover concerned about the convenience...


----------



## Widjaja (May 30, 2008)

Is the GPU a bit of a bugger to get out with the accelero S1?

Talk about convenience, it's the reason why I'm looking at a modular PSU but as of today I had to retire my Logitech MX518.
The mouse is literally squeaking 24/7 from the base of it.

Now to choose between Razor or Logitech.


----------



## tkpenalty (May 30, 2008)

Going to switch to vista soon... OS got owned by a rootkit.


----------



## eidairaman1 (May 30, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Is the GPU a bit of a bugger to get out with the accelero S1?
> 
> Talk about convenience, it's the reason why I'm looking at a modular PSU but as of today I had to retire my Logitech MX518.
> The mouse is literally squeaking 24/7 from the base of it.
> ...



If Price wasnt a Issue id pick the Roccat Kone


----------



## Widjaja (May 30, 2008)

I don't think it's available in NZ yet.
Look at either a Logitech G5, Razor copperhead or Diamond back.
I'll most probably get the G5 since I rarely ever use the highest dpi.
I'm constantly using 800dpi.

Right now I'm using an OEM  Microsoft optical mouse.
Feels pretty sluggish but the scrolling on it is better than the MX518.


----------



## cdawall (May 30, 2008)

lol how do i get on the first page?


----------



## InnocentCriminal (May 30, 2008)

cdawall said:


> lol how do i get on the first page?



Ditto!


----------



## tkpenalty (May 31, 2008)

cdawall said:


> lol how do i get on the first page?



Press first on the page selection thing. Can't wait to smack the VF900CU on the X1950PRO


----------



## InnocentCriminal (May 31, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Press first on the page selection thing. Can't wait to smack the VF900CU on the X1950PRO



I think he meant getting into the club house, well, that's what I meant anyroad. 

I think I'll get the VF1000 when I purchase my new HDD. In fact, I'll order them now.


----------



## cdawall (May 31, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Press first on the page selection thing. Can't wait to smack the VF900CU on the X1950PRO



i meant get my name added


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 1, 2008)

cdawall said:


> i meant get my name added



You just ask me like you just did


----------



## grunt_408 (Jun 3, 2008)

Hi guys long time no post. lol. I have had a lot of family stuff happening lately. But anyway I got this yesterday http://www.scorptec.com.au/browse/35/461/82. Seems to perform well alot better than my x1950's did anyway. EDIT: I need a new sig  anyone??


----------



## Wile E (Jun 3, 2008)

Craigleberry said:


> Hi guys long time no post. lol. I have had a lot of family stuff happening lately. But anyway I got this yesterday http://www.scorptec.com.au/browse/35/461/82. Seems to perform well alot better than my x1950's did anyway. EDIT: I need a new sig  anyone??



Hey, good to see you. Very nice upgrade you got for yourself. Now don't be a stranger this time. lol.


----------



## grunt_408 (Jun 3, 2008)

Just ran 3dmark 06 got 11398. Not too bad running 8.4 cats that I D/L from MSI Website I am waiting for them to come up with the 8.5's and see how they go.


----------



## Widjaja (Jun 3, 2008)

@Craigleberry
You now have the same 3DMark06 score as my brother who has a E6600@3.0Ghz and a eVGA8800GTX.

You have a spot on score for your system.


----------



## grunt_408 (Jun 3, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> @Craigleberry
> You now have the same 3DMark06 score as my brother who has a E6600@3.0Ghz and a eVGA8800GTX.
> 
> You have a spot on score for your system.



Yer I dont think I would squeeze anything more out of it untill I try the 8.5 cats apparently they give a bit of a gain with the 3870's


----------



## Widjaja (Jun 3, 2008)

None the less, it is a score to be proud of.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 5, 2008)

Nice . Hmm HD4870/HD4850s look like a real threat to nvidia with the latest benchmarks that are being pumped out showing that one HD4870 tramples the 9800GX2... by a LOT.

I'd assume this massive performance is thanks to the fact that the FSAA isnt loaded on the shaders anymore

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7707&Itemid=1

Techdemo...


----------



## InnocentCriminal (Jun 5, 2008)

I've installed my Zalman VF1000LED - freakin' owns!

Highly recommend it to anyone planning on cooling their 3850/70.


----------



## Widjaja (Jun 5, 2008)

The VF 1000 is a big bugger.
My half size VF830 version does fine for me.


----------



## InnocentCriminal (Jun 5, 2008)

I don't doubt that, but the I was surprised at how small the VF1000LED is compared to what I had imagined. It's a fantastic little cooler, I get 36°C idle and 50°C on load, and that's after playing CoD 4 for 3 hours and then playing Crysis for a few.


----------



## Widjaja (Jun 5, 2008)

Puts my temps to shame.
I get 42degC Idle, 65degC playing COD4 with everything maxxed out at 1280 x 1024 and plays so smooth.

Off Topic:-
COD4 is one of the best games I have played this year.
Plays so well and looks so good.
The Sniper mission stood out the most for me and my bro with visuals.

Next Race Driver GRID.
Apparently puts DiRT's piss poor performance to shame.


----------



## InnocentCriminal (Jun 5, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Puts my temps to shame.
> I get 42degC Idle, 65degC playing COD4 with everything maxxed out at 1280 x 1024 and plays so smooth.



I won't mention my CPU temps then. ^^

I'm gutted my motherboard sucks shitty dog's balls when it comes to overclocking. I'm currently at 2.76GHz but I had to drop my RAM from 2:1 (DDR400) to 5:3 (DDR333) just so I could get it stable. I have a feeling it doesn't like my RAM.



Even though I'm at 2.76GHz I'm still a 100 marks off my Shuttle's score at 2.7GHz - extremely gutted.



			
				Widjaja said:
			
		

> Off Topic:-
> COD4 is one of the best games I have played this year. Plays so well and looks so good.
> The Sniper mission stood out the most for me and my bro with visuals.



Couldn't agree with you more, if I didn't have Crysis to play through I'd probably continue with playing it on Veteran. The new multi-player maps are great and 1.6 patch really helps with my reg issues. ^^



			
				Widjaja said:
			
		

> Next Race Driver GRID.
> Apparently puts DiRT's piss poor performance to shame.



I bought DiRT recently for £10 and it's so much fun, I'm going to be sorting out my HDD(s) this week(end) so I'll be bunging it back on. It's great, a'ight performance is a bit crappy but I can play it fine, just get the odd slow down now and then.

I'm debating with myself if it's worth purchasing a Q6600 and the AsRock 4Core Dual SATA motherboard. I'd only have to get another Arctic Freezer (unless I could mod the retention block from my current mobo). No, no, going off topic and I _must_ wait for Nehalem.

^^


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 5, 2008)

InnocentCriminal said:


> I won't mention my CPU temps then. ^^
> 
> I'm gutted my motherboard sucks shitty dog's balls when it comes to overclocking. I'm currently at 2.76GHz but I had to drop my RAM from 2:1 (DDR400) to 5:3 (DDR333) just so I could get it stable. I have a feeling it doesn't like my RAM.
> 
> ...



Screw arctic freezer PRO 7s when you can get a more compact cheaper, and high end Xigmatek HDTS963. And yes I give you authority to go off topic.

I would recommend the AcceleroS1 of Thermalright V1 over the VF1000... the VF1000 isn't that much good of a cooler in my opinion. The extra heatpipes only serve as a redundancy for heatpipes from being saturated with heat (A problem of the VF900). Its not a bad cooler but there are better alternatives in terms of bang for buck :\


----------



## Widjaja (Jun 5, 2008)

InnocentCriminal said:


> I'm gutted my motherboard sucks shitty dog's balls when it comes to overclocking.



Overclocking enthusiasts board my arse, check the false readings on the uGURU clock!





I think the AV8 series sucks hard, no matter who the manufacturer is.

As for DiRT wait till you get to the multicar races in the higher tiers, super rally cross chuggs hard.
If your'e trying to beat world lap times, try and beat mine under the user name Applique.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 5, 2008)

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7739&Itemid=1 <<< R700 Release date.


----------



## Gallatin (Jun 12, 2008)

ok. 2 asus hd3650. am good for it?


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 12, 2008)

Definately . 

Geez I need to get my ass over to posting here... no time these days


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 19, 2008)

-Celebration-

Woot the HD4850 is out  Any mod who passes by, may you please change it to "Tkpenalty's X1950~HD4k Clubhouse" instead?

Thanks.


----------



## Widjaja (Jun 19, 2008)

I'm going to try and swap my 8800GT I'm getting on RMA for a HD4850.
Yes another of my XFX 8800GT XXX's bit the dust, which makes three.

Not going back to nVidia after the run of bad luck I had.


----------



## ShadowFold (Jun 19, 2008)

Well tbh I think im gonna grab a 4850 or even a 4870 if they are under 300$. I really want to go back to ATi cause nvidia hasnt released drivers since may 16th or something like that and its getting boring  I just hope palit has them out by the time I can buy one


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## Widjaja (Jun 20, 2008)

Well looks like I'll be back with ATi.
Offered a 9800GTX as a replacement for my 8800GT but it won't fit in my case due to the chassis layout.

So I saw my distributor has HD4850's in stock which should fit being a single slot solution and the same size as the X1950pro.

Wonder if I'll be in credit with the distirbutor since I paid $457NZD for my 8800GT and the HD4850 is $369 which would leave me with $88 which could go to a Xfi Extreme gamer or an Auzentech Xplosion.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 20, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Well looks like I'll be back with ATi.
> Offered a 9800GTX as a replacement for my 8800GT but it won't fit in my case due to the chassis layout.
> 
> So I saw my distributor has HD4850's in stock which should fit being a single slot solution and the same size as the X1950pro.
> ...



Thats what I hate about Nvidia, none of their new products will ever fit in my case. Oh well. 4850FTW. 9.7,9.8 are the highest review scores I've ever seen on TPU.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 21, 2008)

God this card is phenomenal! Editor's choice left and right. I might as well start saving up my funds for this


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## InnocentCriminal (Jun 21, 2008)

Going to get the title changed ay? ^^


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## Widjaja (Jun 21, 2008)

Apparently the HD4850's with the reference coolers are hot like the reference cooled X1950pros.
Yay looks like I can place one of my hands up against the back of the PC when it's a bit chilly!


----------



## InnocentCriminal (Jun 21, 2008)

^^

Hand warmer FTW!


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 21, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Apparently the HD4850's with the reference coolers are hot like the reference cooled X1950pros.
> Yay looks like I can place one of my hands up against the back of the PC when it's a bit chilly!



haha. 9.8/9.7 are the highest scores I've ever seen W1zzard give out. 

Who wants a 8800GT with an AcceleroS1 for $150 AUD?  (actually since the release of the HD4850... the 8800GT's value has just died..........)


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 21, 2008)

InnocentCriminal said:


> Going to get the title changed ay? ^^



Why not? I'm a chap who likes to keep up with the latest (orly?)


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (Jun 21, 2008)

Proud owner of a hd3870 ere.


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## mitsirfishi (Jun 21, 2008)

[I.R.A]_FBi said:


> Proud owner of a hd3870 ere.



same  but *WHOA HD4850* Beast just hope the hd4870 with ddr5 will


----------



## Widjaja (Jun 22, 2008)

Don't know where my brother took this from but it shows the comparision between the ridiculously sized nVidia cards.





I think AMD/ATi have won this round if the manufacturers keep up the with demand for these cards.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 22, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Don't know where my brother took this from but it shows the comparision between the ridiculously sized nVidia cards.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Higher the res = 4850 shines... the reason why R600s were so weak at AA was because of the way that the cards did AA. RV770s patched up this issue...


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Jun 22, 2008)

Are the 4850 prices going to be drop'n anytime soon? I think the price is good on them but i still would like to see them lower. I am going to try and get a 4850 it looks like it is killing most of the the Nvidia cards and it looks that every card in the same price range is getting killed by it.


----------



## Widjaja (Jun 22, 2008)

p_o_s_pc said:


> Are the 4850 prices going to be drop'n anytime soon? I think the price is good on them but i still would like to see them lower. I am going to try and get a 4850 it looks like it is killing most of the the Nvidia cards and it looks that every card in the same price range is getting killed by it.



The cards have only just come out.
AMD haven't even realsed WHQL drivers on thier webiste for it yet.

Come on no need to be cheap, the Sapphire one's are $369NZD which is really good buy.

The HD4850 is hotter than the X1950pro, it hits 87egC max load in rithdrl HDR test.
TOASTY!

Makes me wonder what the temperature threshold of the core is.


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Jun 22, 2008)

I don't have a problem with the price and I am not cheap most of the time...I know they just came out. I think it would be good to get a aftermarket HSF for it then if they get that hot.


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## tkpenalty (Jun 22, 2008)

Nvidia is going to suffer down under,  in Australia, the 9800GTX hasnt had the price drops that occured elsewhere...


----------



## mitsirfishi (Jun 22, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> The cards have only just come out.
> AMD haven't even realsed WHQL drivers on thier webiste for it yet.
> 
> Come on no need to be cheap, the Sapphire one's are $369NZD which is really good buy.
> ...



dont worry about the threshold just think of what cooler your going to wack onto it get more overclocking out of it


----------



## Widjaja (Jun 23, 2008)

mitsirfishi said:


> dont worry about the threshold just think of what cooler your going to wack onto it get more overclocking out of it



Wonder what coolers are compatible with it?

I'm guessing anything which fits the HD3850's.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 23, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Wonder what coolers are compatible with it?
> 
> I'm guessing anything which fits the HD3850's.



Precisely. The card is identical, in appearace, just the cores slightly bigger. I woudln't go for anything under a VF900CU, actually VF900CU is already pushing it a bit, Maybe an AcceleroS1, + TMs. Just remember, to buy an extra set of ramsinks for the MOSFETs.


----------



## DanishDevil (Jun 23, 2008)

Just keep in mind the L shape of the RAM now instead of the one diagonal chip like the HD 3K's in case the cooler of your choice doesn't have individual ram sinks.


----------



## Widjaja (Jun 23, 2008)

Well it's confirmed, I now have a Sapphire HD4850 on the way.
It will be interesting to see what the max temperature will be in my system as all the ventilation is above the gpu currently.

Hope the nf4 chipset doesn't have an issue with the HD4850 being an ATi card.
Shouldn't do if I don't use a dual card setup.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jun 23, 2008)

DanishDevil said:


> Just keep in mind the L shape of the RAM now instead of the one diagonal chip like the HD 3K's in case the cooler of your choice doesn't have individual ram sinks.



Its actually better that the memory chips are spaced like that; they are further from the core. I dont know of any "single piece" aftermarket cooler that works on the HD3850s anyway... Damn i want one of these cards D:.


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## InnocentCriminal (Jun 23, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Well it's confirmed, I now have a Sapphire HD4850 on the way.
> It will be interesting to see what the max temperature will be in my system as all the ventilation is above the gpu currently.
> 
> Hope the nf4 chipset doesn't have an issue with the HD4850 being an ATi card.
> Shouldn't do if I don't use a dual card setup.



You'll be fine I would have thought, as your not using a AGP card. Only issue I know of is the fucking annoying Code 43 error.


----------



## Widjaja (Jun 23, 2008)

InnocentCriminal said:


> You'll be fine I would have thought, as your not using a AGP card. Only issue I know of is the fucking annoying Code 43 error.



Had a quick goole and it appears its realted to nf3 AGP, Vista and ATi drivers.


----------



## Widjaja (Jun 25, 2008)

My new card is finally here!





I'm going to wait till the 8.7cats come out so I don't have to use the hotfix though.
As I have noticed from the past as AMD/ATi have usually released the decent drivers after the the release of the card.


----------



## grunt_408 (Jun 25, 2008)

Nice card widjaja. Post 3dmark scores would like to know what you get man


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Jun 25, 2008)

I ram my e6400 @ 3.2 Ghz last night and card @ 820/1200 and got 11.2K in 3d mark 06 hows that?


----------



## mitsirfishi (Jun 26, 2008)

not a bad run memory will run 1300 easy 1355 max stable on mine and 880 on my core keep pushing


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## p_o_s_pc (Jun 26, 2008)

How many watts and amps does a 4870 need? I want to get one but i can't afford to get a new PSU and a 4870


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Jun 26, 2008)

what are some suggested fan speeds cause i think i might just bios flash this card with new fan settings as it runs too hot for my liking and riva cools it a fair bit.


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (Jun 26, 2008)

alos my card is a built by ati model, i flashed it with an edited version of my current bios, does it remove the clock limit?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jun 26, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Had a quick goole and it appears its realted to nf3 AGP, Vista and ATi drivers.



Missing GART driver, basically Vista tried pulling a fast one on AGP support.


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## tkpenalty (Jul 1, 2008)

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Diamond/HD_4870/25.html

This is so tempting. Dammit i want a HD4870!!!


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## Widjaja (Jul 1, 2008)

I recieved a DVI to HDMI out, what kind of monitor uses one of these?
Probably expensive.


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## tkpenalty (Jul 2, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> I recieved a DVI to HDMI out, what kind of monitor uses one of these?
> Probably expensive.



A LOT of TVs use HDMI these days (so do DVD players , okay a lot of DVD players have USB/SD slots.... why not call them SD players )


----------



## grunt_408 (Jul 2, 2008)

Yer I got one wif my 3870 I guess thats why its called a HD3870 lol.


----------



## Urbklr (Jul 2, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> I recieved a DVI to HDMI out, what kind of monitor uses one of these?
> Probably expensive.



It is included because the card puts out 7.1 audio through it.


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## tkpenalty (Jul 3, 2008)

Urbklr said:


> It is included because the card puts out 7.1 audio *threw* it.



through

Anyway, I got a E7200 now


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## grunt_408 (Jul 9, 2008)

So how do the 4850's perform? Is it worth getting one of these for a new pc I am putting together for a friend or would it be better to spend a little more and get the 4870? My mate just wants good graphics when he does play a game which isnt very often.


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## tkpenalty (Jul 10, 2008)

Craigleberry said:


> So how do the 4850's perform? Is it worth getting one of these for a new pc I am putting together for a friend or would it be better to spend a little more and get the 4870? My mate just wants good graphics when he does play a game which isnt very often.



Mate, its $220 and performs like a $300 9800GTX. What does that tell you? The card wants to sell itself!

So buy it . 4870 is like the cost of the 9800, I'd go for the 4850 instead, but thats my opinion.


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## Widjaja (Jul 10, 2008)

Still haven't installed my HD4850 yet as I'm only gpoing to install the card once the 8.7's come out.

With the rest of my system specs, I'd say the HD4850 will perform
 a bit better than the 8800GT but with better image quality on some games.
If he has a generic mid tower chassis without the hotswappable HDD rack he may want a HD4850 due to it's size.
I can barely just fit a 4870 due to it's dual slot cooler and I can't install a 9800GTX as the cooler will jam against the top HDD.

But I think I have become slightly biased to ATi now due to the stint I had with the 8800GT and I feel nVidia concertrate on advertising themselves more than they work on thier driver performance.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jul 10, 2008)

Craigleberry said:


> So how do the 4850's perform? Is it worth getting one of these for a new pc I am putting together for a friend or would it be better to spend a little more and get the 4870? My mate just wants good graphics when he does play a game which isnt very often.



so i guess your SKT A project died?


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## tkpenalty (Jul 10, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Still haven't installed my HD4850 yet as I'm only gpoing to install the card once the 8.7's come out.
> 
> With the rest of my system specs, I'd say the HD4850 will perform
> a bit better than the 8800GT but with better image quality on some games.
> ...



I feel the same with Nvidia. Nvidia have just exhausted themselves with the GTX200s, while AMD most likely havent been working on the R700s this year but instead only the drivers (I'd assume that since the R700 is an optimised R600). R800s are probably even finished, and just are waiting for nvidia's "Nuke". 

4850 should give the 8800GT a nice ass whooping. Remember the benchmarks...?


----------



## Widjaja (Jul 10, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> 4850 should give the 8800GT a nice ass whooping. Remember the benchmarks...?



We'll see.
Depends on what I can get with the CPU I have now and I'll be upgrading my monitor next as it would be stupid getting a new CPU, RAM and Motherboard when my monitor's max res is 1280 x 1024.


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## grunt_408 (Jul 13, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> so i guess your SKT A project died?



Nope going great guns although the 9800 did die so I got a 7600gt for it. Great pc for the kids. I havnt O/C it all that much as the chipset gets red hot on the old lanparty


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## Ketxxx (Jul 13, 2008)

Support group? You make it sound like we are alcoholics


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## p_o_s_pc (Jul 13, 2008)

Ketxxx said:


> Support group? You make it sound like we are alcoholics



you mean we aren't? just admit it ketxxx you and many others here are


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## Widjaja (Jul 13, 2008)

Ketxxx
Haven't seen you around in ages!


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## Ketxxx (Jul 13, 2008)

I'm not an alcoholic  I prefer to look at it as I appreciate alcohol more than others


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## p_o_s_pc (Jul 13, 2008)

Ketxxx said:


> I'm not an alcoholic  I prefer to look at it as I appreciate alcohol more than others



lol that is a good one


----------



## Ketxxx (Jul 13, 2008)

Perhaps a bad time to mention it.. but right now I have a 1.75l bottle of jack daniels next to me  looking for a good excuse to start it!


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## p_o_s_pc (Jul 13, 2008)

Ketxxx said:


> Perhaps a bad time to mention it.. but right now I have a 1.75l bottle of jack daniels next to me  looking for a good excuse to start it!



you need a good excuse to drink it... It is right beside you and you want to.


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## Ketxxx (Jul 13, 2008)

Its no fun drinking by urself


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## p_o_s_pc (Jul 13, 2008)

Ketxxx said:


> Its no fun drinking by urself



true dat get a few friends and some girls over there and have them bring there own and have some fun


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## Ketxxx (Jul 13, 2008)

That should be happening next weekend


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## p_o_s_pc (Jul 13, 2008)

Ketxxx said:


> That should be happening next weekend



sweet.


----------



## Ketxxx (Jul 13, 2008)




----------



## p_o_s_pc (Jul 13, 2008)

Ketxxx said:


>



 lol i have seen a few people like that... it lmao every time that happens


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## Ketxxx (Jul 13, 2008)

You, me, and probably everybody here has been *THAT* person at least once before


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## p_o_s_pc (Jul 13, 2008)

Ketxxx said:


> You, me, and probably everybody here has been *THAT* person at least once before


+1 
If they haven't been yet there day will come


----------



## RandomSunchips (Jul 14, 2008)

I got me an Asus 4850, with stock clocks at 625 core and 1986 mem. Not sure about shaders. At what point in overclocking would I see real gains? Around 700 core?


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Jul 14, 2008)

you would see higher FPS in games and higher benchmarks


----------



## Ketxxx (Jul 14, 2008)

RandomSunchips said:


> I got me an Asus 4850, with stock clocks at 625 core and 1986 mem. Not sure about shaders. At what point in overclocking would I see real gains? Around 700 core?



Thats a question only a braud answer can be given to. The first thing you want to focus on isn't OCing the card, but using the highest possible stable FSB and clock frequency on your CPU, and running the highest possible OC on your RAM with it. (Timings no looser than 5-5-5-15).

This may explain what I'm talking about better;

With my system at stock (2GHz CPU, memory @ 800MHz, 3870 GDDR3 @ 776\1.8GHz) The system returned a 3Dmark06 score of around 8400pts, hardly spectacular. With my system OC'd to 3.4GHz @ 380FSB and memory @ 1146MHz, I got a 3Dmark06 score of 11,500, and even at an OC like that the CPU and memory only had enough to completely remove the bottleneck of the 3870 with its stock speeds.

In summary experiment with OCing your CPU, FSB and memory until performance gains in something like 3Dmark06 are negligable (~50pts), then set about OCing your card.


----------



## grunt_408 (Jul 15, 2008)

Couldnt have said that any better myself.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 15, 2008)

Ketxxx said:


> Thats a question only a braud answer can be given to. The first thing you want to focus on isn't OCing the card, but using the highest possible stable FSB and clock frequency on your CPU, and running the highest possible OC on your RAM with it. (Timings no looser than 5-5-5-15).
> 
> This may explain what I'm talking about better;
> 
> ...



Whoa holy crap O_O thats a huge gain. 

From what I understand thats a driver inefficiency which requires more CPU power.


----------



## ShadowFold (Jul 16, 2008)

http://img.techpowerup.org/071231/Picture.jpg

Oh god.. Bad memories lol 

your member list is way old  I ordered a 4850 tho!


----------



## Ketxxx (Jul 16, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Whoa holy crap O_O thats a huge gain.
> 
> From what I understand thats a driver inefficiency which requires more CPU power.



I don't think a driver inefficiency totally explains massive gains like I observed. I do think however that people wern't properly prepared for the 3870s and thought their stock systems (nomatter how powerful) were enough to not have a bottleneck on the card.. just not true. In reality with the bottleneck removed my 3870 sits at a performance level right on par with a 4850 from reviews I have seen. When both cards are OCd the story is slightly different, but still not a huge distance between them.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 16, 2008)

Ketxxx said:


> I don't think a driver inefficiency totally explains massive gains like I observed. I do think however that people wern't properly prepared for the 3870s and thought their stock systems (nomatter how powerful) were enough to not have a bottleneck on the card.. just not true. In reality with the bottleneck removed my 3870 sits at a performance level right on par with a 4850 from reviews I have seen. When both cards are OCd the story is slightly different, but still not a huge distance between them.



In 3D Mark 06


----------



## Ketxxx (Jul 16, 2008)

Which is based on a real game engine and is 80% GPU dependent  Clearly, your not too familiar with how CPU>memory>VC all communicate with eachother. I would go into detail, but google exists and I don't have 20mins to waste atm.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 17, 2008)

Ketxxx said:


> Which is based on a real game engine and is 80% GPU dependent  Clearly, your not too familiar with how CPU>memory>VC all communicate with eachother. I would go into detail, but google exists and I don't have 20mins to waste atm.



Yawn. Benchmark. Doesn't reflect in-game performance. Do some gaming benchmarks, but as far as I have seen, the 4850 almost doubles the performance of a HD3870 (and my 8800GT ).


----------



## Wile E (Jul 17, 2008)

I'm sorry Ket, TK is correct here. 3Dmark06 score are heavily skewed by the CPU. Going from 3.6GHz on my Quad to 4.4 is worth over 2000pts for me. The card is in no way bottlenecked by a quad at 3.6. All those points are from the cpu score.

If you want to see how a cpu really effects games, you have to run games. Or at least time demos of games.

Using Crysis as an example on my AMD 6400+ rig with a stock Palit 8800GT 1GB. There was less than a 1fps difference between 2GHz and 3.2GHz.

In short, there's just no way your card can keep up with the 4800 series in real gaming, unless you voltmod and water cool it at least.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jul 17, 2008)

*CPU VS GPU Bottlenecking...*



Wile E said:


> I'm sorry Ket, TK is correct here. 3Dmark06 score are heavily skewed by the CPU. Going from 3.6GHz on my Quad to 4.4 is worth over 2000pts for me. The card is in no way bottlenecked by a quad at 3.6. All those points are from the cpu score.
> 
> If you want to see how a cpu really effects games, you have to run games. Or at least time demos of games.
> 
> ...



Explain why i score 2000~3000 pts more on 3DM06 with my current specs at 2.2GHz vs Candle_86 #4 system with a C2D overclocked to ~3.4GHz with a x800.


----------



## Wile E (Jul 17, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> Explain why i score 2000~3000 pts more on 3DM06 with my current specs at 2.2GHz vs Candle_86 #4 system with a C2D overclocked to ~3.4GHz with a x800.



I guess I need to reword my point a little. I didn't say it depended strictly on the cpu, I said it's heavily skewed by it. I gained 2000Pts by nothing more than OCing my CPU, but framerates in my games sure as hell didn't change.

In real world gaming, the cpu makes little to no difference, with some exceptions, of course. With an AMD dual core, it takes going down to 1.8GHz to see any real difference, and then it's still only about 2.5fps in Crysis.

Once you get an X2 or Core 2 above 2GHz, there is almost no difference in framerate in actual games. So if there is no real difference in games, why does a higher cpu clock give higher scores in 3Dmark06? Because 3DMark06 scores are heavily influenced by the cpu, *when, and here is the important part, all else is equal.*


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 17, 2008)

Wile E said:


> I guess I need to reword my point a little. I didn't say it depended strictly on the cpu, I said it's heavily skewed by it. I gained 2000Pts by nothing more than OCing my CPU, but framerates in my games sure as hell didn't change.
> 
> In real world gaming, the cpu makes little to no difference, with some exceptions, of course. With an AMD dual core, it takes going down to 1.8GHz to see any real difference, and then it's still only about 2.5fps in Crysis.
> 
> Once you get an X2 or Core 2 above 2GHz, there is almost no difference in framerate in actual games. So if there is no real difference in games, why does a higher cpu clock give higher scores in 3Dmark06? Because 3DMark06 scores are heavily influenced by the cpu, *when, and here is the important part, all else is equal.*



Somewhat correct, but with that framerate difference you are heavily understating it. Without  bottlenecking your scenario and result is correct. 

HOWEVER. In my case any C2D around less than 2Ghz that is used with the 8800GT (or HD3850; I used it once) gives me rather bottlenecked performance; in game its very noticeable. Once you pump the clocks up to say 3Ghz there is a noticeable gain in performance which nears 10FPS. Depends on the game however games like crysis I got shit all improvement =\. 

Ketxxx on the otherhand is totally off in another direction; the HD3850 is NOT a Hd4850 once you boost clocks; sure you may have gained performance within 3D Mark 06; but thats not a game! The HD3850/70 will not attain HD4850 performance even with massive OC. You will only remove bottlenecks! 

3D Mark 06 has become a competiton to grapple onto the best way to get a higher score even if its not logical. Anyway 3D Mark scores depend on the two factors the CPU and GPU. Just remember that the GPU score is more heavily weighted versus to CPU score.




Wile E said:


> If you want to see how a cpu really effects games, you have to run games. Or at least time demos of games.
> 
> Using Crysis as an example on my AMD 6400+ rig with a stock Palit 8800GT 1GB. There was less than a 1fps difference between 2GHz and 3.2GHz.



Use more than one game. A game engine as inefficient as cryengine 2 isn't really a valid place to base conclusions off .


----------



## Wile E (Jul 17, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Somewhat correct, but with that framerate difference you are heavily understating it. Without  bottlenecking your scenario and result is correct.
> 
> HOWEVER. In my case any C2D around less than 2Ghz that is used with the 8800GT (or HD3850; I used it once) gives me rather bottlenecked performance; in game its very noticeable. Once you pump the clocks up to say 3Ghz there is a noticeable gain in performance which nears 10FPS. Depends on the game however games like crysis I got shit all improvement =\.


I tested on a 6400+ X2 at 1.8, 2.0, and 3.2. Using CoD4, and Crysis. Between 2.0 and 3.2 there was only a couple fps difference in both title, at most. The peak was CoD4 with a whopping 3fps. At 1.8, each lost another 1-2fps, give or take. This is at 1920x1200 tho.

Was there a bottleneck? Perhaps. But it doesn't matter, because almost all modern games are too gpu heavy for the cpu to make a huge difference. And even if it does make a huge difference with cards the caliber of the 3800's or 8800's in some games, you're talking about a game or resolution that doesn't tax the card to begin with, and bottlenecked or not it's gonna get so many frames that it doesn't matter in the slightest as far as playability is concerned.

Sure, if I benched at 1024x768, I might see differences on the order of 10fps. But what the hell difference does 10fps make, when you are already getting over 100fps anyway?

My point is, the cpu does not matter in games (within reason. I'm not gonna bolt a 4870 to a p3 rig, obviously. lol.). The gpu is the most important consideration. It's only in some benchmarks that the cpu makes a huge difference, and that is only as far as the score is concerned.

Some benchmarks are better than others as far as the effect of the cpu on the score tho. Clocking from 3.6 to 4.0 on my QX in Vantage before the Physx drivers, I gained a whopping 90pts. After the Physx drivers, clocking from 3.6 to 4.4 netted me 30pts.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jul 17, 2008)

AMD managed to fix alot of stuff that was plaguing the 3000 and 2000 line and that was forced hardware settings, also they ditched DDR4 in favor of DDR3 and DDR5.


tkpenalty said:


> Somewhat correct, but with that framerate difference you are heavily understating it. Without  bottlenecking your scenario and result is correct.
> 
> HOWEVER. In my case any C2D around less than 2Ghz that is used with the 8800GT (or HD3850; I used it once) gives me rather bottlenecked performance; in game its very noticeable. Once you pump the clocks up to say 3Ghz there is a noticeable gain in performance which nears 10FPS. Depends on the game however games like crysis I got shit all improvement =\.
> 
> ...


----------



## Widjaja (Jul 23, 2008)

Seems these GPU houses have really died off lately.

Just installed my Sapphire HD4850 due to the release of the 8.7cat and I love it.
Way more stable FPS in games than my 8800GT.
None of this coming up to a busy area and noticing the frame drop stuff.

The Idle temp is a shocker with these cards.
Mine is on average around 68degC.
After a long bout of gaming it's about 72degC idle.
Max load temp gets to 86degC which is a little higher than my X1950pro.
The fan is more audiable than my X1950pro as it tends to adjust more.


----------



## grunt_408 (Jul 28, 2008)

so has ati won you back widjaja?


----------



## Widjaja (Jul 28, 2008)

Craigleberry said:


> so has ati won you back widjaja?



Yes it's a clear win in the way of performance over the 8800GT.
Idles and runs hotter than the 8800GT but I haven't had one issue.


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 28, 2008)

I want a HD4850 T_T


----------



## tkpenalty (Jul 28, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Seems these GPU houses have really died off lately.
> 
> Just installed my Sapphire HD4850 due to the release of the 8.7cat and I love it.
> Way more stable FPS in games than my 8800GT.
> ...



I'd buy two sets of zalman ramsinks, then install the VF830. Use 4 for the HD4850 VRM and rest for RAM.


----------



## grunt_408 (Jul 31, 2008)

what is the deal with porting physX from nvidia cards and being able to use on the 4850 anyone know about it?

found linky http://www.gizmodo.com.au/tags/ati


----------



## Widjaja (Jul 31, 2008)

Craigleberry said:


> what is the deal with porting physX from nvidia cards and being able to use on the 4850 anyone know about it?



Does this mean NGO will be realeasing a modded ATi driver which utilizes PhysX in games which use PhysX if it all goes to plan? 

The only reason why AMD will be holding out is due to business.
If the game devs stop using Havok, the leasing of Havok would have been a big waste of money.
Another dirty marketing tactic from nVidia like the stupid TWIMTBP log at the start of games subliminaly saying 'buy nVidia' sucker. . . .

But form what I know, there are more memorable games which use Havok.
e.g Oblivion and Bioshock.


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## tkpenalty (Jul 31, 2008)

woot! might get a HD4850!


----------



## mitsirfishi (Jul 31, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> woot! might get a HD4850!



go tk think when i have a few pennies saved before crimbo it might be 2x hd4850's or maybe a 4870 depends on what money i have to treat myself to


----------



## Widjaja (Jul 31, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> woot! might get a HD4850!




I'm happy with my HD4850 because it performs awesome in real world gaming which is what I bought my PC for in the first place, not benchmarks.

Get a HD4850, it's the muttz nutz!


----------



## grunt_408 (Jul 31, 2008)

those cards are supposedly metting massive gains from using nvidia physx, that will be interesting to see once the drivers get released.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Aug 3, 2008)

any of yall still have a AGP 1950 Pro? i was wondering about the latest hotfix drivers, aka Cat 8.7 just thing is they state they are for R2K and 3K series cards, i installed them on a 1950 Pro.


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## straybeat (Aug 3, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> any of yall still have a AGP 1950 Pro? i was wondering about the latest hotfix drivers, aka Cat 8.7 just thing is they state they are for R2K and 3K series cards, i installed them on a 1950 Pro.



The wife has a 256 megger and I have the 512. We're both running the 8.7's on Vista Ultimate and they work fine. I had to get it to make Halo play alright and I just went ahead and did the wife's machine at the same time. We haven't had any problems at all except that the cards both slowed down a bit. I am going to look for a better driver now though since you reminded me. 

Mark


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## eidairaman1 (Aug 4, 2008)

i found out my problem was hardware related, after i flashed the bios from HellFire 3EG Rev 2 to Neo Ayeka's Suzuna SX 3.8 B6, i forgot i reset the bios so the clock speed was at 1866/67 (default for a XP-M 2500+) I was playing the game at that speed and it was being choppy, so i upped it back to the speed i had before the bios upgrade and no performance drops, i guess my CPU wasnt feeding the card fast enough.

btw to look for the previous Hotfix Drivers go to NGOHQ.


----------



## Widjaja (Aug 4, 2008)

Funny how the hotfix drivers are needed in the 8.x cats.
It's the reason why I stopped updating at 7.12 when I used my X1950pro AGP.
There seemed no need to update anyhow as my system was running brilliantly on the old drivers regardless of the game and how new it is.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Aug 4, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Funny how the hotfix drivers are needed in the 8.x cats.
> It's the reason why I stopped updating at 7.12 when I used my X1950pro AGP.
> There seemed no need to update anyhow as my system was running brilliantly on the old drivers regardless of the game and how new it is.



7.8s and higher were having problems with DX9 on All AGP, i think its because the regular driver didnt have the stuff needed for AGP, such as GART etc. The hotfix drivers are primarily for AGP. with the 3850 that legacy will continue, if ATI were to release a 4850 they would have to continue releasing the hotfix driver.


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## Widjaja (Aug 4, 2008)

Sooner or later AGP users will have no choice but to upgrade.

There are still alot of people using AGP though. 

Embarrasingly the main computer place in town uses AGP with all thier systems except for one which they call thier "TECH" PC.


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## tkpenalty (Aug 4, 2008)

I seriously have to start bashing AGP users upgrading to the HD4/3k series soon, because of the bottlenecks that such users are subject to. 

With the 4850s, keep dreaming guys in all my seriousness the 4850 AGP will never perform faster than what, a X1950PRO on an AGP Prescott system. Its a serious waste of money with the price premium such users are subject to! 

AGP Users are better off purchasing NEW hardware, such as CPUs, mobo, RAM, and possibly a GPU around the range of a 8600GT. Okay so maybe it will end up more expensive, but you can still sell the old hardware.


Sidenote; When i get the HD4850, i wonder where my X1950PRO is going to go....


----------



## Widjaja (Aug 4, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> I seriously have to start bashing AGP users upgrading to the HD4/3k series soon, because of the bottlenecks that such users are subject to.
> 
> With the 4850s, keep dreaming guys in all my seriousness the 4850 AGP will never perform faster than what, a X1950PRO on an AGP Prescott system. Its a serious waste of money with the price premium such users are subject to!
> 
> ...



I do have to admit, it the AGP GPUs should hve stopped at the X1950pro.
This extra added price to AGP is stupid since they are getting lower performance due to the rest of their hardware.

If you are stuck in the AGP situation it will probably be wiser to get a mid range setup which is futureproofed than get a HD4850 AGP.
Which I hope ATi doesn't release.


----------



## wolf (Aug 4, 2008)

last time i was here i was on a X1950Pro AGP.... now i'd love to rejoin the ranks with 4870CF 

for a while i was Nv all the way, then i defected to the dark side, then after much compemplation i decided nvidia was actually way more evil, thus i have been shown the light, and am now back to the light side 

rock on ATi for making the 48xx series, you have done well.


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## Widjaja (Aug 4, 2008)

wolf said:


> i decided nvidia was actually way more evil, thus i have been shown the light, and am now back to the light side



I think the same after the 8800GT.
Ran fast when it did but I experienced driver issues.

Back with AMD/ATi things feel umm stable?


----------



## NeilV (Aug 6, 2008)

*New X1950 PRO Owner*

Hi All,
I've just decided that I need to upgrade my 7600GS (AGP) with something a little beefier. I currently am running a P4 650 @ 4.08 Ghz, 1.5 Gb of Corsair 400Mhz RAM SATAII HDD and XP (32 bit). So, I thought, looking at Good AGP cards, New N/A so ebay provided me with a Club 3D X1950 PRO for £40 including postage, which I was very happy with. However, when it arrived, I discovered that I didn't have a 6 pin PCI-e power cable from my PSU  which is 500W but not a well known brand. I have since ordered a 2 Molex to 6pin converter cable from a seller on ebay but when it arrived it didn't fit. 

Could anyone help me and tell me if they have had similar problems with power to their X1950's and if a standard 2 Molex to 6 pin should fit it or whether I need to get the one originally supplied with the card?

I stand here completely surrounded by NO wonderful graphics, listening to all you lucky people with X1950's and am rapt with anticipation.

Thanks in advance

Neil V


----------



## Widjaja (Aug 6, 2008)

Hi, NielV welcome to TPU.
I don't understand how the Club 3D X1950pro didn't come packaged with a two 4-pin molex to one 6-pin PCI-E adaptor.

How is this adaptor not fitting?
6 pin and 4 pin are all the same, there's no way it could not fit unless you have them upside down.


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## NeilV (Aug 6, 2008)

Widjaja said:


> Hi, NielV welcome to TPU.
> I don't understand how the Club 3D X1950pro didn't come packaged with a two 4-pin molex to one 6-pin PCI-E adaptor.
> 
> How is this adaptor not fitting?
> 6 pin and 4 pin are all the same, there's no way it could not fit unless you have them upside down.



Sorry, I obviously didn't explain myself very well. The card is a 2nd hand one from ebay as new ones are not available in the UK. The seller did say make sure you have a 6 pin plug which I thought I did have but was mistaken. the converter from a separate ebay seller seems to have a square lug where a shaped one should be and therefore with a bit of force it goes in some way but not enuff I think, because the PC boots up with a "your graphics card is not plugged in to the PSU" message. I blame no-one but myself for not checking the plug situation but was not sure if the connetor on the Club 3D X1950pro might be non-standard.

Thanks for the quick reply.
Neil V


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## Widjaja (Aug 6, 2008)

Odd.
Did not expect the adpators teeth to be any other shapes.

Something doesn't sound right, they should be all one fit.

I personally would not have forced the 6Pin adaptor in.
Reason being the square tooth might be a + instead of a - which could possibly short the GPU.

You should have contacted the seller of the adaptor and said the adaptor you sent me has different shaped teeth to the connection on my GPU instead and looked for another adaptor which fitted.

Look at some pics of 6-pin PCI-E conectors and compare them with the oneon the X1950pro to see if it is indeed non-standard.


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## snuif09 (Aug 6, 2008)

can i be in the club too


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## NeilV (Aug 7, 2008)

*Further Update & Question*

Hi All,
After careful study of the 6 pin connectors on line I decided that the top-middle pin should have a rounded bottom but on my cable was square, so a little *CAREFUL* slicing with a pallet knife & I had a connector that fitted in to the slot. I plugged it all together and powered up, my post was OK. I went in to windows, waited for all my startup programs to load (cos I can't remember how to stop that happening) got a message that new hardware was installed, I had already inserted the CD with the drivers on but I was a created disk by the ebay seller & I couldn't install from it so I pressed cancel & _POP_ the monitor goes in to power save, the PC is still running but no Video output.

I've tried going in to safe mode to remove the drivers but I never get enough time in windows before it _GOES_. It will sit in the bios screen for as long as you like but windows just kills it, I have a 500W PSU, I've even tried removing all non-essentials like 2nd HDD, DVD Player, Interior Case lights but no good. I have re-seated all connectors making sure all pins were straight.

If it happened in game I could see that it might be PSU but in windows???? my previous card was a 7600GS should I remove the drivers whilst I still have that card in (so I can see what I'm doing!!)

*HELP!!!!!*


----------



## Wile E (Aug 7, 2008)

NeilV said:


> Hi All,
> After careful study of the 6 pin connectors on line I decided that the top-middle pin should have a rounded bottom but on my cable was square, so a little *CAREFUL* slicing with a pallet knife & I had a connector that fitted in to the slot. I plugged it all together and powered up, my post was OK. I went in to windows, waited for all my startup programs to load (cos I can't remember how to stop that happening) got a message that new hardware was installed, I had already inserted the CD with the drivers on but I was a created disk by the ebay seller & I couldn't install from it so I pressed cancel & _POP_ the monitor goes in to power save, the PC is still running but no Video output.
> 
> I've tried going in to safe mode to remove the drivers but I never get enough time in windows before it _GOES_. It will sit in the bios screen for as long as you like but windows just kills it, I have a 500W PSU, I've even tried removing all non-essentials like 2nd HDD, DVD Player, Interior Case lights but no good. I have re-seated all connectors making sure all pins were straight.
> ...


Yeah, you should definitely remove the nVidia drivers first.


----------



## NeilV (Aug 7, 2008)

*More info*

So.... I should remove the nVidia drivers before I remove the card? and could this cause the problems I described?

Thanks for the rapid response by the way!!


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## Wile E (Aug 7, 2008)

NeilV said:


> So.... I should remove the nVidia drivers before I remove the card? and could this cause the problems I described?
> 
> Thanks for the rapid response by the way!!



Yeah, all kinds of weird things can happen if you don't remove the drivers prior to installing a card from a different manufacturer. Makes sure you run a driver cleaner after uninstalling as well.


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## NeilV (Aug 7, 2008)

*Thank You*



Wile E said:


> Yeah, all kinds of weird things can happen if you don't remove the drivers prior to installing a card from a different manufacturer. Makes sure you run a driver cleaner after uninstalling as well.



Thank you V.much Wile E.

I thought it would work long enuff for me to remove them with the new card in. One question though, when I boot in to safe mode surely it's not using the nVidia Drivers. Or am I incorrect in that assumption. I thought if I could boot into safe mode I could remove all the drivers cos non would be in use. Am I thick or what.


----------



## Wile E (Aug 7, 2008)

NeilV said:


> Thank you V.much Wile E.
> 
> I thought it would work long enuff for me to remove them with the new card in. One question though, when I boot in to safe mode surely it's not using the nVidia Drivers. Or am I incorrect in that assumption. I thought if I could boot into safe mode I could remove all the drivers cos non would be in use. Am I thick or what.



It's not using the NV drivers, but it can still be enough to cause conflicts. On my AMD rig, I just get a blue screen if I don't remove my NV drivers before installing my 2900XT. Even in safe mode.

It may not be your problem at all, but it's worth trying.


----------



## NeilV (Aug 7, 2008)

Wile E said:


> It's not using the NV drivers, but it can still be enough to cause conflicts. On my AMD rig, I just get a blue screen if I don't remove my NV drivers before installing my 2900XT. Even in safe mode.
> 
> It may not be your problem at all, but it's worth trying.



You are correct of course. It is better to try that than buy a new PSU or send the card back to the ebay'er I bought it from.

Thanks for your help.


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## Widjaja (Aug 7, 2008)

Oh jeez, the nVidia drivers stick in your systems registry like s**t to a baby's daiper.

I find the nv4disp.dll will still be in the Windows folder regardless of what you do.
I uninstalled the nVidia drivers from one of my OS's and found there was still enough reminants to cause weird things in desktop with the HD4850 and ATi drivers installed.
So I installed the ATi drivers on my other OS which has no nVidia drivers and it runs flawless.


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## eidairaman1 (Aug 7, 2008)

known as a marketing ploy to get you to stick with one company over the other


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## kebabs (Aug 7, 2008)

About 25 days ago, I RMA'ed my 2900XT and I just recieved a 3870x2 back . Shame I've got my eyes open for the 4870x2's so I'll be selling it.


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## mitsirfishi (Aug 13, 2008)

ordered my hd4870+ arctic s1 tonite whoop  ill get benching when i recevie it


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## imperialreign (Aug 13, 2008)

planning on 2 4870x2s by the end of the year . . . still working on breaking in these 2 3870s 

man, though, I'm still kicking myself that I didn't hold out another month.  But, at the time, I was able to get these two for $260, which was too good a deal to pass up . . .

if I had _known_ that amonth later the 4850s were going to rock as hard as they would, and the price of the 3870 was going to drop to $130 anyway, I would've waited . . . 



well, I can't complain too much.

I'll be running an ass-load of benchmarks this weekend.  I should be able to run this Q6600 at 4GHz on air, and MEM at 1900MHz;  I intend to run my two 3870s as high as I can get them and will be posting results early next week here and at hwbot.

I'll also run my pair of 1950 PROs at the same CPU speeds as well, and will be posting those results.

If things are going well, I might even dig out my X1300 512MB and have it run the gauntlet, as well as my X700 PRO.

This weekend should be fun


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## Widjaja (Aug 14, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> if I had _known_ that amonth later the 4850s were going to rock as hard as they would, and the price of the 3870 was going to drop to $130 anyway, I would've waited . . .



Yeah well thats it.
Not knowing.

Looking at the the futuremark website seems the HD4850s are the most popular.

I was only fortunate the distributor had run out of 8800GTs and gave me the option to get a HD4850 as a replacement.


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## Wile E (Aug 14, 2008)

kebabs said:


> About 25 days ago, I RMA'ed my 2900XT and I just recieved a 3870x2 back . Shame I've got my eyes open for the 4870x2's so I'll be selling it.



Damn. Looks like I need to blow up my 2900. Maybe they'll send me a 4870. lol.

Slap that bad boy in my slowly coming together LAN rig, and have a nice little setup. With the 1440x900 monitor, it should last quite a while to boot.


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## tkpenalty (Aug 19, 2008)

someone killed the club


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## Widjaja (Aug 19, 2008)

I guess the fanbois are dieing out at TPU.
nVidia Clubhouse is only a little bit more active than here.


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## imperialreign (Aug 19, 2008)

well, I hit 4GHz on this quad last weekend (4050MHz); and everything seemed electronically stable - I didn't end up with any BSoD or OC related crashes . . .

but, unfortunantely, I just couldn't keep the cores cool enough for extended benching.  I was running into thermal crashes   At one point, running wPrime1024, Core 2 reached 103C before shutting down and the inevitable black screen of failure.  So, I wasn't able to run long benchmarks.

But, I do have the CPU-Z screenie and a bench result from running SuperPi1M to show 4G was running . . . I know this system will run it now, and am 70% certain my config will prove to be stable once I can keep temps under control.

now to keep my fingers crossed that stoopid stuff won't crop up and suck my frivolous savings dry over the next couple of months that I can get a liquid setup together . . .


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## Wile E (Aug 20, 2008)

You might want to at least look into a Xigma HDT or TRUE 120 to hold you over until the water setup.


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## imperialreign (Aug 20, 2008)

Wile E said:


> You might want to at least look into a Xigma HDT or TRUE 120 to hold you over until the water setup.



I was slightly entertaining such - considering how I was setup this last weekend, this Z9700 just isn't efficient enough to remove _enough_ heat in large quantities.

The setup was good, though, just a poor cooler.  I had my case positioned directly over a floor vent that was pumping out a steady stream of A/C; measured with a thermometer at about 50F right out of the vent.  The CPU cores were idling at about 45C at 4GHz, and were stable with small applications and whatnot.  It wasn't until putting some stress on the proc with a bench did the temps start to go thermonuclear, and it took a few minutes to get there as well.  Running wPrime1024, for example, all 4 threads would hit about 55% before one of the cores would overheat and shut down.


But, TBH, I don't expect to have access to using that method of cooling for a couple of months.  A larger air cooler would just be a bite in the HOH savings, IMO.  But, we'll see how things go between now and then; either way, I know for sure this CPU can run 4GHz.  My next goal is 4.3G


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## Wile E (Aug 21, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> I was slightly entertaining such - considering how I was setup this last weekend, this Z9700 just isn't efficient enough to remove _enough_ heat in large quantities.
> 
> The setup was good, though, just a poor cooler.  I had my case positioned directly over a floor vent that was pumping out a steady stream of A/C; measured with a thermometer at about 50F right out of the vent.  The CPU cores were idling at about 45C at 4GHz, and were stable with small applications and whatnot.  It wasn't until putting some stress on the proc with a bench did the temps start to go thermonuclear, and it took a few minutes to get there as well.  Running wPrime1024, for example, all 4 threads would hit about 55% before one of the cores would overheat and shut down.
> 
> ...


Yeah, but the Xig S1283 is less than $40, and even has a $10MIR at the Egg right now. Cheap and effective. Should at least get you benchable at 4 until you can get h2o together. Plus you could probably recoup some of that money by selling the Zalman.


----------



## tkpenalty (Aug 21, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> well, I hit 4GHz on this quad last weekend (4050MHz); and everything seemed electronically stable - I didn't end up with any BSoD or OC related crashes . . .
> 
> but, unfortunantely, I just couldn't keep the cores cool enough for extended benching.  I was running into thermal crashes   At one point, running wPrime1024, Core 2 reached 103C before shutting down and the inevitable black screen of failure.  So, I wasn't able to run long benchmarks.
> 
> ...



Your 9700's heatpipe fluids probably are completely vaporised; the 9700 wont cool that well anymore. The 9700 is an outdated cooler imho, old generation. I'd go for the Xigmatek, but the TRUE is good if you can be bothered with lapping it.


Realistically best if you just run at modest clockspeeds and wait it over. Buying new hardware to allow you to keep your e penis as solid as  a rock is very typical-TPU-user-ish.


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## mitsirfishi (Sep 6, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> I was slightly entertaining such - considering how I was setup this last weekend, this Z9700 just isn't efficient enough to remove _enough_ heat in large quantities.
> 
> The setup was good, though, just a poor cooler.  I had my case positioned directly over a floor vent that was pumping out a steady stream of A/C; measured with a thermometer at about 50F right out of the vent.  The CPU cores were idling at about 45C at 4GHz, and were stable with small applications and whatnot.  It wasn't until putting some stress on the proc with a bench did the temps start to go thermonuclear, and it took a few minutes to get there as well.  Running wPrime1024, for example, all 4 threads would hit about 55% before one of the cores would overheat and shut down.
> 
> ...



my xiggy atm keeps my q6600 well cooled even at 3.6 its voltage hungry its well worth considering until you can get some w/c kit, have you lapped your q6600 yet i know that scraped a fair few degree's off mine i can get into windows at 4ghz its abit hairy lol 
imperialreign whats your VID of your q6600 ?


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Sep 6, 2008)

Heres my results overclocking my 4850 using cat 8.7 and riva tuner 2.10.

This is 3dmark06 scores,stock setting 280x1024

core   mem   score
650    1000   13036
660    1050   13226-





670    1070   13387-




680    1090   13550-




690    1100   13653-




700    1100   13732-




710    1100   13804-




730    1100   13972-




740    1125   14141-




750    1150   14285-





I have an arctic accelero S1 R2 with a 120mm thermaltake fan on it.Temp was 41c max

My cpu was at 3.6ghz for all the runs.

My bios is modded for 1.158v in high 3d mode.The highest it was benchable was 750/1150,i ran it at 770/1150 but 3dmark failed.


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## imperialreign (Sep 6, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> Your 9700's heatpipe fluids probably are completely vaporised; the 9700 wont cool that well anymore. The 9700 is an outdated cooler imho, old generation. I'd go for the Xigmatek, but the TRUE is good if you can be bothered with lapping it.
> 
> 
> Realistically best if you just run at modest clockspeeds and wait it over. Buying new hardware to allow you to keep your e penis as solid as  a rock is very typical-TPU-user-ish.



Well, I agree the 9700 is a bit outdated, but it's still quite an effective cooler considering its size when compared to much larger coolers . . . I can't say for sure on the heatpipe fluids, though, as the cooler still performs just as well with lower clock speeds as it did when it was brand new . . .

. . . it's just that the heat output from the quad, and from the system ambient, is just too much for the cooler to handle at those higher clock speeds.

Sadly, I've been meaning to go to liquid cooling for quite a few months now, but I've just run into one financial headache after another.  Sure, I could purchase a larger air cooler, but why dump the $60+ when I can shoebox it for a HOH setup?

That 4GHz run was just a weekend ordeal, where conditions allowed me to push it that hard; I doubt I'd ever run that speed 24-7.  Possibly 3.8GHz with liquid cooling, but I'm content with 3.6 on a higher BUS.






mitsirfishi said:


> my xiggy atm keeps my q6600 well cooled even at 3.6 its voltage hungry its well worth considering until you can get some w/c kit, have you lapped your q6600 yet i know that scraped a fair few degree's off mine i can get into windows at 4ghz its abit hairy lol
> imperialreign whats your VID of your q6600 ?




Yeah, one of the first things I did after I got this quad was to lap it - TBH, though, I didn't see much improvement at all.  Perhaps 1C average across all 4 cores.  I even lapped down the 9700 to ensure it was flat as well, and reseated the cooler about half a dozen times.  Still no more improvement than about 1C.

my config for 4G was stable as best I could tell - the only thing that would crash the system was if I would run a benchmark that would pull 100% load on all 4 cores, after about 5 min, core temps were high enough that one core would just shut down altogether, then blackscreen.  Thermally unstable 



As to the Q6600 VID . . . CoreTemp reports 1.2750v.  Not sure if that's affected at all by my current config.


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## mitsirfishi (Sep 6, 2008)

1.275 isnt bad for vid better than the most commen ones 1.325v like mine but i get my water cooling all up and running tommorow so should be awesome


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 7, 2008)

Well yall, i decided to try to find a Max GPU Clock on my Sapphire x1950 Pro (I know its old school) but anyways ATI Tray Tools Beta 1.5.8.1275 reached 641MHz from 580 and the system BSOD with a ATIDVAG in it (basically stating the card became unstable) I did notice the Temps were in the 60s, but i also noticed the fan wasnt increasing in speed. (audible noise remained the same) I was think there is possibly a Bios Limiter for the fan speed, i also noticed you cant increase the speed by 1 MHz on this card either as i tried to increase by 1 and the clock wouldnt apply. When i was finding the max clock it would jump in massive chunks. I may eventually put a cooler on the converter chip on the back of the card with a small fan, edit the bios for voltage increases since i dont have a solder kit and dead boards around to perfect soldering to pads etc.

Is there any GPU/Ram coolers recommended for this card, (i know some of yall will say its a waste of money/time to try to increase speeds on this card but i want to experiment with it since its been running stock for over a year or 2)


----------



## mitsirfishi (Sep 7, 2008)

arctic accelero s1 + turbo modules/ 2x92mm fans with cable ties


----------



## p_o_s_pc (Sep 7, 2008)

does ATItool still allow voltage adjustments on the x1950? If so maybe try that before you flash the card to see if it helps.+1 to the accelero s1 + turbo modules


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## mrhuggles (Sep 7, 2008)

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?p=951930#post951930

vivo fixed in vista, possibly xp [2900xt and maybe others similar? maybe stuff with the T200 chips or whatever if ppl can test that would help]


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 7, 2008)

course that program hasnt been updated in so long, yet Tray tools has been, course im not running tray tools currently tho until i figure out a few things, wasnt there a bios editor tool out there?


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 7, 2008)

well i managed to capture a bios image of my 1950 pro as a log file using Rabit 2.2.1 and for some reason the app only detects 256MB of ram on it when i know it has 512, not sure if rabit cant detect it correctly or what.

is there a guide on how to use the tool properly because i want to overclock this sucker high.

btw this is a agp version


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 7, 2008)

i wonder if Radeon Bios Editor Supports this card


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## p_o_s_pc (Sep 7, 2008)

It should. Sorry i can't help you much i haven't used an ATI card in awhile.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 8, 2008)

the creator state he wouldnt support X1K cards, so that just means he never owned 1.


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## tkpenalty (Sep 23, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> the creator state he wouldnt support X1K cards, so that just means he never owned 1.



No, I do own one X1k card, the X1950PRO. However I don't feel like theres a need to support the even older cards, but I don't mind if you have any issues and need help... 

Not enough time to update the purchase guide X_X.... maybe in the upcoming holidays I shall do it.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 24, 2008)

i was talking about Radeon Bios Editor, it only supports HD2 and higher cards


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## Flyordie (Dec 8, 2008)

Owner of an HD2600XT GDDR4 from GeCube.
Clocks- 890Mhz Core, 2.2Ghz Mem (1.1Ghz x 2)
Pix-
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d20/Flyordie07/PC and Components/1.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d20/Flyordie07/PC and Components/2.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d20/Flyordie07/PC and Components/3.jpg
Here is the HD2600XT while it was still in my machine, it has since been moved down to my moms machine downstairs (I still own it, but it would be unused right now unless I moved it down there...
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d20/Flyordie07/PC and Components/Re-Save5.jpg
--
I also own an HD4850 (if this counts as well?)
ASUS EAHD4850 Reference Board
Clocks- 720Mhz Core, 2.2Ghz RAM (2.4Ghz DDR)
Thats whats in my machine right now, and it ROCKS!
Pix-
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d20/Flyordie07/Rage3D/PB202589.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d20/Flyordie07/Rage3D/PB202592.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d20/Flyordie07/Rage3D/PB132570.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d20/Flyordie07/Rage3D/PB072547.jpg


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## Flyordie (Dec 9, 2008)

ello? *says purrdy please with little beady eyes...*


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## p_o_s_pc (Dec 9, 2008)

wow i didn't think this thread would die


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## Flyordie (Dec 9, 2008)

Im reviving it. ;-) I own both an HD2600XT and an HD4850. (I also own an X1650XT, an stripped X1950Pro variant.)


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## grunt_408 (Dec 24, 2008)

Wow where is everyone? I was just looking around the threads and couldnt see this one, I had to really look for it normaly it used to be a popular thread. Anyway this will keep it on the first page for a while


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## Widjaja (Dec 24, 2008)

The Clubhouse has had it's hey day.


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## I-Mac (Dec 27, 2008)

I just a got a pair of mint Sapphire x1950pro 256mb from a good friend of mine. (changed the headgaskets on his Subaru for him and he gave me these plus beer as payment)

 This thread is such a wealth of information about these cards, I thought I would ask for some help in building a setup to run these cards in crossfire. I ran both cards separately in my (ASUS M2A-VM/AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200/ cheap ass 500w psu) setup and they worked great/ smooth.  

 I'm ordering a Asus M2R32-MVP Socket AM2 Motherboard to run them on, and already have an AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000 cpu, Linkworld G5 case, Seagate 500gb SATA HD for the build.

 But I'm totally unsure of what PSU to buy (crossfire certified,SLI certified,30amps/ 12volt rail......per card??????)

 And i know these are the older style Sapphire cards that have overheating issues, so I want to install a pair of coolers (maybe Thermaltake DuOrb VGA Cooler's, i can get them cheap and locallly) but i'm not sure if the coolers will interfere with the crossfire bridges.

 Anyway if anyone can recomend a PSU and a great GPU cooler for these cards i would be very grateful.


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 27, 2008)

Crossfire and SLI Certified are usually guaranteed to provide the power needed for the cards, but 1 thing to remember, X1950 Pro need a General of 450 Watt PSU as of Single Card Config, but I believe you can use a SLI Cert PSU to power a Crossfire Setup, i would also recommend running latest driver set or even 8.10s for the time being


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## I-Mac (Dec 28, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> Crossfire and SLI Certified are usually guaranteed to provide the power needed for the cards, but 1 thing to remember, X1950 Pro need a General of 450 Watt PSU as of Single Card Config, but I believe you can use a SLI Cert PSU to power a Crossfire Setup, i would also recommend running latest driver set or even 8.10s for the time being




 I know a single card needs 450w Psu, but does that meen to run dual cards i need 900watts! That seems like overkill to me. I'll make sure i run the lateset drivers. The thing is I've seen crossfire certified psu's from 600-1600 watts, I was hoping someone is running dual 1950's currently or in the past has had a pair of them and used (insert psu model here) as a psu and it worked. Thanks for the reply.


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 28, 2008)

for your average system id recommend at least a 550 watt, make sure the amperage is good, because i think i also heard that the cards draw like what 17 amps each or something so ive heard, Start looking at 550-650 Watt PSUs and give us some examples so we can judge wether its a good choice or something that we wouldnt hook even a XB to it.


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## Widjaja (Dec 28, 2008)

Somethng like a Corsair HX620 will do the trick.
Or a Silverstone decathalon 620W (650W)?

If you want the cheaper versions go for the PSUs which are not modular.

Either way make sure you get a PSU with two PCI-E power connectors on their own cables or you will start to see red spots on your screen.

Had this happen with my X1950pro 512mb AGP when I connected too many other peripherals to one of the cables powering the card even though I am running off a 600W PSU.


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 28, 2008)

ya know what i was gonna try that with my antec unit with a single Molex lead and see if it does same thing with a sapphire card, i mean i decided to provide 2 separate leads to it and figured it would use 1 and keep the second for other stuff.


Widjaja said:


> Somethng like a Corsair HX620 will do the trick.
> Or a Silverstone decathalon 620W (650W)?
> 
> If you want the cheaper versions go for the PSUs which are not modular.
> ...


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## Widjaja (Dec 28, 2008)

Yeah I had one molex cable dedicated to the card and the second dedicated to the card, HDD and a fan, then after a short while the red spots popped up.
I can run one HDD off one of the cables but add another peripheral like a fan, to the cable and the card doesn't get enough juice.


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 28, 2008)

well my card is i believe over 1 yo now because the previous 1 i had broke within 3 days (Caused POST Problems)


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## Widjaja (Dec 28, 2008)

YEah I thinkk it's just a general part of computer hardware.
Sometimes we get dud cards from the start.
Looking back, those X1950pros had alot of duds.
When I had issues with my XFX 8800GTs it was the same too when I went to bjorn3D forums.


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 28, 2008)

ya ill probably try to run the card with a single power lead since thats the only 1 that has nothing else hooked to it and see if i encounter problems. I just want to free 1 modular jack for other stuff. Im soon to format the machine too since i put a codec in that eachtime i have a window open and then close it, causes the icons on the desktop to refresh and they tend to be slow, sort of like they show up for a few seconds as a unkown program icon bascially, If Possible Since WMP in XP doesnt support DVD upfront, I want to install FFDShow but need to know how to force it to start working with WMP11, because AC3 Codec On its own starts working, just need to figure out how to force apps like that to start.


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## Widjaja (Dec 28, 2008)

Yeah I was trying to find out how to play DVD on WMP11.
I have since given up ande now I have WMP11 and WMP classic which plays alot of different file formats including DVD.


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 28, 2008)

doesnt matter what i try to get DVD running i need a DVD Codec that FFDShow or DScaler has, i just want to use FFDSHow because it has more of the stuff i need.


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## Widjaja (Dec 29, 2008)

Have you tried the K-Lite codec package?
It has FDDshow in there along with others.
Since installing there hasn't been a format I haven't been able to watch.


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 29, 2008)

no the problem with FFDShow is it showing up for WMP 11, it fails to start i think so i dont have the ability to run DVDs, now with I believe WMP 10 it runs up automatically but idk.


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## Wile E (Dec 29, 2008)

Install the CCCP. It's pre-configured to work. At least it works on my system, anyway. And it primarily uses ffdshow.


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 29, 2008)

well the other question was my bros system, well ive tried everything to recouperate WMP and it fails to play any music, so im thinking there is something really bad on his machine, i will be picking up a copy of XP this week at Directron.


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## Widjaja (Dec 29, 2008)

Have you tried to unistall WMP11 then reinstall it again?
WMP 11 is also downloadable as a installable exe as Microsoft has a validation thing with it.


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 29, 2008)

brothers machine is WMP 10

tried removing it, said it restored it back to WMP10, i guess SP2 incorporates WMP 10? but i also tried to install WMP 10 again from a .exe and said the tech isnt compatible, so something is really messed up in his machine, so i will be getting him a legit OS version and tell him how to keep it updated.

On another Note, know of a good site that i can pick up a Fan for the Hercules 3D Prophet 2 GTS Pro, it finally died but i think the card is still good


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## Widjaja (Jan 1, 2009)

Both my versions of Windows XP Home and Pro come with WMP9.
Although I have come across certain XP OSes which contain WMP10 but I think they were specifically for HP machines iirc.

ASs for the fan, I wouldn't know, I never owned a GPU which dated back that far.


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## tkpenalty (Jan 22, 2009)

Bump.


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 22, 2009)

lol TK bumping his own topic, no new info to share TK?


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## Widjaja (Jan 22, 2009)

What can we say.
The latest gen from AMD/ATi have been a success.
Therefore no complaints.


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 22, 2009)

im pretty sure there is alot more that they have yet to release, namely the response to the 285/295, and TBH the X2 is more slick than the 295/9800GX2/7950, also AMD yet to enable sideband memory on the X2s anyway.


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## Yukikaze (Feb 2, 2009)

I'd like to join if I may, thanks !

I currently own the Powercolor HD2600XT 256Mb GDDR4 which currently I lent to a friend along with one of my plethora of rigs (An E1200, P5KPL-CM, 2Gb DDR2 667Mhz, HEC 300W PSU, WD 200GB HDD, Zalman CNPS7500 and a pair of red led Zalman 92mm fans running 5v). I picked the thing second hand for 30$ about two months ago. Not a bad deal I'd say.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 3, 2009)

well if you own a card from the 1950-4800 Line you are in basically, now other point i think those who own a 1800 and 1900 should be included since the 1950 is just a upgraded 1900.


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## eidairaman1 (Aug 8, 2009)

Well it seems that the X1K cards are off the earth due to driver support being pulled


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