# LONG FileNames use 'em for curation and more



## SpectateSwampBANNED (Mar 27, 2019)

I make use of LONG FileNames  for cataloging (<=260chrs) My app can use the filename to determine where to start video playback, for how long and at what speed… 
And more a lot more.  
This is a far better spot than being buried in the Metadata.
 Nothing is like having all your info at your fingertips…  NO matter how much you have..  

With all the mpg jpg mp3 having long file names.. I can do a quick catalog of all of them.. 
Then randomly or by specific key show / play them. 
The filename is even more important than long program names for this... Wow


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Mar 31, 2019)

squirrel at cabin green mountain road 20190329123657








 
This is a recent example of my video naming (for now)
My app can search for all mpg files and create a catalog that I can search and then Play 'em
I can search for "squi/roa/2019" easy easy. curation and play... 

Give 'em long file names you'll be glad you did.


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## Vayra86 (Mar 31, 2019)

1. date sorting can be done by standard OS sorting methods.
2. long file names tend to fall off on many display/UI sizes.

Its not a bad idea, its just highly situational I think. There is another way, you can use affix/suffix language, or 'tags', categories. Long descriptions also take time to read, while tags are simple and tend to cover the content; its easier/faster to skim through files that way and you can still search on tags.

I do use dates a lot in my filenames. Its great for version management as well.

For those videos for example; tags like "outdoor" "wildlife" would be appropriate. Or, if you are a fan of filming squirrels, 'squirrel' is automatically also a tag for you. If you do it like this you can even sort within  the entire map and get a logical order.

Also, what app are you referring to?


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## Aquinus (Mar 31, 2019)

If you need to query data about files like that, why aren't you using some sort of database? Something like SQLite is great for this sort of single-user application that needs to be highly portable. Metadata can be stored in a way that you can query upon and it's likely faster than scanning the file system. The problem is that at scale, performance may be suboptimal on rotational media drives and this might not work well because you're essentially doing random I/O to determine file names, whereas using something like SQLite is far more likely to do sequential reads to find the same data. I suspect you don't want to store all of your video on an SSD. In addition to that, if you use something like SQLite, you can put the catalog on an SSD while keeping the content on a spinny disk, giving you both excellent performance, and good scaling as your media library grows.

Personally, I think using the file name for anything other than unique identification is a mistake and is possibly error prone. Using an external catalog with hashes could let you detect duplicates and renamed files as well. All things to consider.

Edit: A database could also let you record several tagged times on a single video, which could themselves have their own unique names, so that's a thing too.


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## EarthDog (Mar 31, 2019)

Looks like you reinvented the wheel even though there are things out there for this already.


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## Aquinus (Mar 31, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Looks like you reinvented the wheel even though there are things out there for this already.


Reinventing the wheel is okay if it's a better wheel. I personally see value in things like data deduplication and being able to search your files with your own metadata. I think there is value in that, but there isn't value in trying to cram all of that information in a filename. I think the idea is fine, I just question the implementation.


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Mar 31, 2019)

Vayra86 said:


> Also, what app are you referring to?


My app is a vb5 program that was started in 1999..
11,000 lines of spaghetti code.
http://www.telusplanet.net/public/stonedan/source.txt



Aquinus said:


> If you need to query data about files like that, why aren't you using some sort of database? Something like SQLite is great for this sort of single-user application that needs to be highly portable. Metadata can be stored in a way that you can query upon and it's likely faster than scanning the file system. The problem is that at scale, performance may be suboptimal on rotational media drives and this might not work well because you're essentially doing random I/O to determine file names, whereas using something like SQLite is far more likely to do sequential reads to find the same data. I suspect you don't want to store all of your video on an SSD. In addition to that, if you use something like SQLite, you can put the catalog on an SSD while keeping the content on a spinny disk, giving you both excellent performance, and good scaling as your media library grows.
> 
> Personally, I think using the file name for anything other than unique identification is a mistake and is possibly error prone. Using an external catalog with hashes could let you detect duplicates and renamed files as well. All things to consider.
> 
> Edit: A database could also let you record several tagged times on a single video, which could themselves have their own unique names, so that's a thing too.


Random is just fun.. exciting... beautiful...
To catalog all my mpg videos... one simple function.. and it's created in 2 or 3 minutes
a text file with 2 lines per video is created..
The first is the "search criteria line" and the 2nd is the path to said video.
3000 videos would result in 6000 lines in the text file...
The app counts the number of lines in the file and generates a RANDOM number
It reads to that point and starts the search.. If no match found in 3 lines then another random is generated..

The date time stamp on videos can be very useful...
We did a golf tournament video.. 2 camcorders at a beautiful hole..
by having the camcorder times set to 15 or 20 seconds apart.
We could download both camcorders clips for each golfer...
And they would be automatically sorted into order.
I created a specific catalog function that set these 2 lines up...
one set to play the full 4 or 5 second clip
a next set to play the last second in slow motion (the swing)











EarthDog said:


> Looks like you reinvented the wheel even though there are things out there for this already.


This is the THING you can use forever.. 20 years old already and just getting better... What a Wheel.



Aquinus said:


> Reinventing the wheel is okay if it's a better wheel. I personally see value in things like data deduplication and being able to search your files with your own metadata. I think there is value in that, but there isn't value in trying to cram all of that information in a filename. I think the idea is fine, I just question the implementation.


When we originally did the family albums.. scanned in around 2000.. we put the metadata into the hand made catalog file.
Now.. I'll want to change the CP feature that copies files to another folder... so that it will change the name to contain all the catalog details..
I don't worry much about data duplication.. I worry about losing stuff.. and that doesn't happen when everything I have is in 1 huge folder..
I just drag and drop that to an external 3TB drive.. Duplicates and all..

Back in the Day the Wheel only had 8 characters for a file name... now now  it's <=260 

Being able to explain how Search works.. And the source code right there.. People can make use of it..



Aquinus said:


> Reinventing the wheel is okay if it's a better wheel. I personally see value in things like data deduplication and being able to search your files with your own metadata. I think there is value in that, but there isn't value in trying to cram all of that information in a filename. I think the idea is fine, I just question the implementation.


Yup having my own metadata allows me to see if any files have gone corrupt or missing. 
Same with video. play the first few seconds and last few of all clips.. They can be corrupted.. 
You wouldn't know unless you had a master list.. or compared backups to backups... Handy in the long run.. for sure

With filenames now.... One doesn't have to type them in more than once. 
the rename / copy / paste makes it easy to have those names at hand..  
Curation without random ... I don't want it..


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## FordGT90Concept (Mar 31, 2019)

...just install something like Emby and make sure to keep the metadata in the files correct.  It does all of the database building itself.




"Your Stepson Tried to Burn & Don't Feed the Squirrels"


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Mar 31, 2019)

FordGT90Concept said:


> ...just install something like Emby and make sure to keep the metadata in the files correct.  It does all of the database building itself.
> View attachment 119964
> "Your Stepson Tried to Burn & Don't Feed the Squirrels"


The only reason there is such a thing as MetaData is because filenames were limited to 8 characters... 
Having to have a special program.. right off the bat to change and see the details is rubbish.


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## Aquinus (Mar 31, 2019)

SpectateSwamp said:


> My app is a vb5 program that was started in 1999..
> 11,000 lines of spaghetti code.
> http://www.telusplanet.net/public/stonedan/source.txt


Someone needs to introduce you to a modern programming language. You can do the same thing with far less code and with a language like Clojure (my favorite,) you could make it multithreaded very easily as well.


SpectateSwamp said:


> Random is just fun.. exciting... beautiful...
> To catalog all my mpg videos... one simple function.. and it's created in 2 or 3 minutes
> a text file with 2 lines per video is created..
> The first is the "search criteria line" and the 2nd is the path to said video.
> ...


Random numbers are not a great way to store unique identifiers. You should use a sequence of some sort where you know the last value because incrementing a counter is constant run time. Scanning everything is linear time at best, assuming you don't encounter a duplicate, worst case run time is likely polynomial since it's possible that you could hit every value for every file you have. It's unlikely but, linear run time for an operation like that for *best case* is terrible. That's another good reason to use something like SQLite, it can do that for you.


SpectateSwamp said:


> The date time stamp on videos can be very useful...
> We did a golf tournament video.. 2 camcorders at a beautiful hole..
> by having the camcorder times set to 15 or 20 seconds apart.
> We could download both camcorders clips for each golfer...
> ...


That's neat, but it's implementation independant. A better implementation could do the same thing, but I see what you're saying. As I said before, my issue isn't with what you're doing. It makes sense. I just question the implementation. It's very rudimentary.


SpectateSwamp said:


> When we originally did the family albums.. scanned in around 2000.. we put the metadata into the hand made catalog file.
> Now.. I'll want to change the CP feature that copies files to another folder... so that it will change the name to contain all the catalog details..
> I don't worry much about data duplication.. I worry about losing stuff.. and that doesn't happen when everything I have is in 1 huge folder..
> I just drag and drop that to an external 3TB drive.. Duplicates and all..
> ...


I would rather have this kind of data in a PostgreSQL database that I can do a localized (language specific,) full text search as opposed to a simple string matching search. You also shouldn't need to copy the files, you should only have to keep track of where they are. You also should care about data duplication. I have almost 700GB of video (< 1300 files,) and 53GB of pictures (19k files.) Duplicating the pictures isn't terrible, but video is not feasible without another drive, not to mention that copying that much data takes a lot of time.

All I'm saying is that good software solutions exist and that people like me, who do this kind of thing for a living, are going to take a different approach for good reasons and when you open your software for critique, expect some honest feedback.

Edit:


SpectateSwamp said:


> The only reason there is such a thing as MetaData is because filenames were limited to 8 characters...
> Having to have a special program.. right off the bat to change and see the details is rubbish.


No, it most definitely is not. Metadata is important because it enables you to do things like sort and filter on data that's not related to a file's name; data that is *optional*.


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## FordGT90Concept (Mar 31, 2019)

SpectateSwamp said:


> The only reason there is such a thing as MetaData is because filenames were limited to 8 characters...
> Having to have a special program.. right off the bat to change and see the details is rubbish.


Creation Date, Modified Date, Accessed Date, Hidden attribute, Read-Only attribute, etc. these are all meta data for NTFS has for files (and most are for directories too).  Filename is pretty minor in the grand scheme of things.

There's also metadata embedded in virtually all file types as well.  Photos can have information about the camera that took it.  Music can have album art, track, and artist information.  TV recordings can have season, series, and episode data.  Films can have information about the original format that it was converted from.  The list is virtually endless.

A program like Emby not only sorts it all and makes it searchable, it makes it network/web accessible, keeps track of consumption based on user accounts, and in situations that requires it, converts it on the fly to a device supported format/container.


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## Aquinus (Mar 31, 2019)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Filename is pretty minor in the grand scheme of things.


Well, it's minor in the sense that it's a really simple thing. It's huge in the sense that it represents a particular file on the file system in the context of a particular directory. Don't undersell unique identifiers.


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Mar 31, 2019)

Aquinus said:


> Someone needs to introduce you to a modern programming language. You can do the same thing with far less code and with a language like Clojure (my favorite,) you could make it multithreaded very easily as well.
> 
> Random numbers are not a great way to store unique identifiers. You should use a sequence of some sort where you know the last value because incrementing a counter is constant run time. Scanning everything is linear time at best, assuming you don't encounter a duplicate, worst case run time is likely polynomial since it's possible that you could hit every value for every file you have. It's unlikely but, linear run time for an operation like that for *best case* is terrible. That's another good reason to use something like SQLite, it can do that for you.
> 
> ...


I don't worry about computer usage..    I love it when random is running hard and busy busy. 
Full text search is what this app is all about. 
  to do that ... I pad the detail text with a leading and trailing space.
  then reduce multiple spaces and tabs to 1 space. 
and 
  show all results highlighted 
  show proximity matches in a different color. 
  put displayed results to an extract text file. 
  show large font text ... with slowed print.. a minor pause between characters... 
and more a lot more.. 
You do have a lot of stuff.. Good going.. 
I'd like to randomly see all your data.. Unless it's weirdo material... 

Oh I love the feed back.. Way more is learned from someone that disagrees.. that's for sure.


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## Vayra86 (Mar 31, 2019)

SpectateSwamp said:


> The only reason there is such a thing as MetaData is because filenames were limited to 8 characters...
> Having to have a special program.. right off the bat to change and see the details is rubbish.



Sorry but no, wrong on every possible level. Filename limitations were never the reason metadata was considered a good idea.

Its fine you've found a solution that works for you, but its grossly inefficient. Its not better in any way than existing solutions - even the simplest ones... You've devised something that takes far too much time per file to implement. 2-3 minutes might be fine for home use fiddling with video in free time, but explain this to any company and they'll say you're a nutcase. Again, its fine it works for you, but this is the perspective it faces in the real world.

I've done Functional IT management and querying was my number one tool to probe a database for problems but also to ensure or make visible data quality, the amount of data, and provide the business side with detailed reports and impact analyses. You can't do any of that without metadata, without it, all your files are just huge walls of text that only serve as the search string you placed there, manually. In terms of data quality and management that is completely invalid. The larger your data pool gets, the more problems you will face.

In conclusion, I'd suggest, like others have, that you explore SQL as a language and learn a thing or two about querying. Its actually really quite fun to get a handle on and being so well equipped to extract information from a huge pile of files / a database. While you learn SQL, you will immediately get a handle on the types of metadata you'd want to have for your use case, as you start thinking about and looking at your data in a different way. You can figure out things long before others even notice it. You can see trends, for example, and in your practical use case, that would allow you to see that your interests have shifted, for example by querying a subject matter over a period of time. You'd be able to see that you no longer make 'squirrel' videos and have turned to 'moose' or 'mountain ranges'. And at the same time, that same query gives you the file ID's or locations you need to open them.


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Mar 31, 2019)

MetaData I could and have lived without it..
My app puts audio / mp3 metadata into the catalog file.. but I didn't and don't care for that approach. nope
I don't care about the file internals until there is a problem..
When doing 50 plus telco and cablesystem billing system ETL's
Search was handy when plowing through toll files and other unstructured data... Billing files.. and more.

I keep everything I need with this app..
I place the shortcut in the upper right hand corner... the hot spot.










Nobody has better access to their video, audio, Pictures and text than this.


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Aug 26, 2019)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJZfY6lxBaQ

3 videos in this reshoot.
Their filenames are set to control the video segment thumbnails.
The first starts at normal speed as a jet boat approaches. Then switches to slow motion as it passes AND freezes on last frame for a Sec
Then the 2nd has the ToKin Stone blasting out some smoke.
Then the 3rd is the start of the Jet Boat race.. with a repeat play.. They point up river to start and head down river.
the it loops on these 3.

Now those are THUMBNAILS..

Now I quickly catalog video as I shoot 'em and offload.. And shoot some more.


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Nov 6, 2019)

Sky Creature moons me in segment of demo85 pict7 9 clips 20191105114917









by creating multiple copies of the special file.. I can easily have these segments play time and again. 
All by these controls in the filename.

Tobacco Leaf Flyer clip1 left side 23 way up again begin==40000 start==43750 wait=.65 speed=125 len=262260 demo85_pict7.mpg
Tobacco Leaf Flyer clip2 lower right to center and back again begin==58000 start==61800 wait=1.1 speed=125 len=262260 demo85_pict7.mpg
Tobacco Leaf Flyer clip3 the biggie again begin==59000 start==63600 wait=.6 speed=125 len=262260 demo85_pict7.mpg
Tobacco Leaf Flyer clip3.5 up to the cloud from lower right again begin==62100 start==64800 wait=.6 speed=125 len=262260 demo85_pict7.mpg
Tobacco Leaf Flyer clip3.7 poking out of cloud again begin==64000 start==69000 wait=.6 speed=125 len=262260 demo85_pict7.mpg
Tobacco Leaf Flyer clip3.8 up from bottom off to left again begin==70000 start==73000 wait=.6 speed=125 len=262260 demo85_pict7.mpg
Tobacco Leaf Flyer clip4 just barely bottom left again begin==125000 start==129800 wait=.5 speed=125 demo85_pict7.mpg
Tobacco Leaf Flyer clip5 from right arcoss then down again begin==160000 start==162200 wait=1 speed=125 demo85_pict7.mpg
Tobacco Leaf Flyer clip6 lower right side again begin==205000 start==208250 wait=.5 speed=125 demo85_pict7.mpg


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## R-T-B (Nov 6, 2019)

SpectateSwamp said:


> I'd like to randomly see all your data.. Unless it's weirdo material...



...

I like frogs, mkay?


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Nov 6, 2019)

R-T-B said:


> ...
> 
> I like frogs, mkay?


Grab a copy of the original file


			http://www.telusplanet.net/public/stonedan/demo85_pict7.mpg
		

See the segments at regular speed 
No creature known to Man or Woman moves like that... Nope.


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Dec 4, 2019)

I manage all my video with Long FileNames
Cataloging the thumbnail details in the FN
Start point, Duration, Speed, Repeat, Freeze and more
unbreakable thumbnail collage









Am I good or what?


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Oct 1, 2020)

Geo Location in the filename is extremely useful
Macaroni Flats bridge and ford 49°14'58.8N 118°41'44.2W 20200909123741.mpg


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Nov 26, 2020)

Been going over all my decades of video and pics... 
I've changed my app so I can easily use long Program Names as well as File Names to pass parameters to the app
I was tired of renaming hundreds of pics that I had and changed my "CP" feature to copy the files to another with 
more details in front... It Is easy.. Just a golden noodle or two and shazam. all copied to another folder with a nice name.

check this location on google maps   What a great feature for filenames... YUP
49°14'58 8N 118°41'44 2W


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Dec 16, 2020)

What rubbish most metadata is.
Most of the time I could care less about; type, size and date modified...
Give me the long names.


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## Frick (Dec 16, 2020)

VisualBasic is the devil.


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Dec 16, 2020)

Like jaundra
it is stored as a code and needs to be translated. 
What a stupid name on top of it all. 
A million jaundra's that nobody cares about.....


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## Aquinus (Dec 16, 2020)

Frick said:


> VisualBasic is the devil.


OO is the devil.


SpectateSwamp said:


> What rubbish most metadata is.
> Most of the time I could care less about; type, size and date modified...
> Give me the long names.


I really don't understand your obsession with long file names. I really don't. Are you planning on putting all of this information in the freaking file name? Forget the GPS location that's also stored as metadata or literally anything you want to annotate it with, but please, tell me more about how cramming all of this data into a hard-to-use file name is going to help you.


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Dec 17, 2020)

Aquinus said:


> OO is the devil.
> 
> I really don't understand your obsession with long file names. I really don't. Are you planning on putting all of this information in the freaking file name? Forget the GPS location that's also stored as metadata or literally anything you want to annotate it with, but please, tell me more about how cramming all of this data into a hard-to-use file name is going to help you.
> View attachment 179805


Geeze I'd rather have my long filenames than any of the above. 
When curating my video ... It is an ongoing process. 
I do a quick rename adding the "folder name" at the front of the file name to each file in that folder. 
Then move 'em into their common video or pic or audio folders... 

Randomly view / play them then put more info into the file name as required. 
We spent too long limited to 8 characters.


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Jan 4, 2021)

NOW I'm curating everything where I have a receipt, tax info, Govt paperwork. Anything that I may be interested in keeping. 
I take a picture... and immediately give it a long filename... DONE. 
The info is mine forever and ever... And at my fingertips. 
Maybe the greatest curator of all time...


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## Toothless (Jan 4, 2021)

This is starting to sounds like some weird cult. Literally sorting by folder would be so much easier than whatever you're still trying to do.


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## Aquinus (Jan 4, 2021)

Toothless said:


> This is starting to sounds like some weird cult. Literally sorting by folder would be so much easier than whatever you're still trying to do.


Cults require a following. This is just... odd. I hope that this is satire. I really do. I would have stopped at calling it a fixation or obsession, but the last reply makes me think it's a weird fetish or something. Either that or we're being trolled. I'm really not sure anymore.


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Jan 5, 2021)

Toothless said:


> This is starting to sounds like some weird cult. Literally sorting by folder would be so much easier than whatever you're still trying to do.


Having to open folder after folder to find files is the problem, when you have many many many folders. Yup folders are piss poor.


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## Toothless (Jan 5, 2021)

SpectateSwamp said:


> Having to open folder after folder to find files is the problem, when you have many many many folders. Yup folders are piss poor.


Smells like there's a PEBCAK issue with data management. I've never had an issue with searching for files and folders. Ever.


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## ThrashZone (Jan 5, 2021)

Hi,
I use a short as possible descriptive name and folders for different categories

I remember the descriptive tag trend lol 
What a joke that is for people that are too lazy to rename images off phone/ camera/.... with nothing but a string of numbers with a date maybe to go by but found using a tag was easier than renaming the silly file to something they could identify faster


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Jan 5, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> I use a short as possible descriptive name and folders for different categories
> 
> I remember the descriptive tag trend lol
> What a joke that is for people that are too lazy to rename images off phone/ camera/.... with nothing but a string of numbers with a date maybe to go by but found using a tag was easier than renaming the silly file to something they could identify faster


My camcorder names the files with  20200827135527 yyyymmddhhmmss  which is a good start
"Black bear on green mtn rd eating chokecherries 20200827135527.mpg"








is the one I assign it... there are 2 others with just the mmss change

Another easy adaptation to this app is a language translation.
If I name a file "a large dark coffee please spanish.mp3"
and record that statement in spanish.. Thennnnnn
a quick search for "lar/dar/coff/span" would find and play the spanish translation
I'm unilingual so have little interest in this ...ability


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## Aquinus (Jan 5, 2021)

Toothless said:


> Smells like there's a PEBCAK issue with data management. I've never had an issue with searching for files and folders. Ever.


In OS X, files can have comments and tags which are searchable in the OS. When using a detailed list view, you can add them as columns as well that can be sorted. There is literally zero reason to cram a ton of data into a filename. There just isn't.


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Jan 6, 2021)

Toothless said:


> Smells like there's a PEBCAK issue with data management. I've never had an issue with searching for files and folders. Ever.


I never search for folders... Just for the files that have the info. AND if you have lots of files and don't have a problem thennnn. you lie.


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## Toothless (Jan 6, 2021)

SpectateSwamp said:


> I never search for folders... Just for the files that have the info. AND if you have lots of files and don't have a problem thennnn. you lie.


No lie. I just know how to name and sort my files to where I can find them easily without needing to make a three page essay in the name.


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## AltCapwn (Jan 6, 2021)

I don't recommend using long file name in an enterprise context, more precisely in "Windows" environment. Most of the programs doesn't support path longer dans 255 characters, and may cause issue in applications, backups and restore, shadowcopy, etc...

You should use tags instead of filename, or nomenclated filename. I raged at so much user because of this type of thinking, that all information must be in the filename. It's important to organize using folders AND filenames, not only filename. 

But anyway, if you're a mac / linux user exclusively, it shouldn't pose any problem (except headache overtime).


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## Aquinus (Jan 6, 2021)

altcapwn said:


> But anyway, if you're a mac / linux user exclusively, it shouldn't pose any problem (except headache overtime).


In my opinion, that's a problem that stems from just having a lot of files in general. I really didn't find managing files hard on Linux, OS X, or Windows unless I didn't make some level of effort to keep it organized, which you have to do regardless if you use tags, comments, metadata, or through the filename.

All I'm saying is that relying on filename alone is terribly misguided.


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## ThrashZone (Jan 6, 2021)

Hi,
User is always better at finding stuff than outsiders so different strokes for different folks
And if not then time to ask for advice 

Can't always go by thumbnails to help you find stuff that is why names exist, just need something a human can identify easier.


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Jan 6, 2021)

Aquinus said:


> In my opinion, that's a problem that stems from just having a lot of files in general. I really didn't find managing files hard on Linux, OS X, or Windows unless I didn't make some level of effort to keep it organized, which you have to do regardless if you use tags, comments, metadata, or through the filename.
> 
> All I'm saying is that relying on filename alone is terribly misguided.


All I'm saying not using long filenames to their fullest potential is terribly terribly misguided.
I use the program name to pass parameters to my search. Just have a number of versions with different names..
Back in the day when Cobol came out... It was big because element names weren't  limited to 2 or 3 characters with % and $ 
  People then complained about names being too wordy. Yup long names aren't NEW.
One of the drawbacks to having all videos in your main folder is that the time it takes to load directory info.
Same with too many jpgs.. I move them to 1 or 2 sub folders when they become a pain. 
I merge many many small text files into ONE huge one.. Because the content is more important than the name. 
Few few files are ever printed or sent more than once. 

Long FileNames rule


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## jboydgolfer (Jan 6, 2021)

this reminds me of.....


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Jan 7, 2021)

Toothless said:


> No lie. I just know how to name and sort my files to where I can find them easily without needing to make a three page essay in the name.


I don't need to know the file name... I can find 'em by partial names and instantly. 










Bear (Iron Gut) munching Hoary Alyssum 20191008171212.mpg
can quickly be found and played by entering
"bear/gut/hoary"
or any other combination of characters in the name OR Randomly

I seldom use more than 50 or 60 characters in the file name.


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## Toothless (Jan 7, 2021)

SpectateSwamp said:


> I don't need to know the file name... I can find 'em by partial names and instantly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're not going to find a file quickly by not knowing any of the name. If I have a file with four words in it Windows will have it up by the second word being completed, so partial like what you're saying. You're also using a dedicated program to find your files when most of us get by with proper organization and naming. 

If I need to find a file, for example Abyss.ini (it's a game modification settings file, perfectly legal) then all I need to do is type in "abyss" and bam, it's there along with the folder of where it is. If I want to watch a downloaded show I can look up the folder of a specific season and _oh nooooo_ I can take the one second to pick the episode after search has brought me to the folder.

Your idea would work if you had a server farm of facebook data so you can see when Bobbie Pepsifan's dog puked in the beer by having post data linked to pictures, but for 99.9% of Lysol disinfectant of the time it's an overly massive waste of time unless your OCD and free time permit you have nothing better to do.


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Jan 7, 2021)

Toothless said:


> You're not going to find a file quickly by not knowing any of the name. If I have a file with four words in it Windows will have it up by the second word being completed, so partial like what you're saying. You're also using a dedicated program to find your files when most of us get by with proper organization and naming.
> 
> If I need to find a file, for example Abyss.ini (it's a game modification settings file, perfectly legal) then all I need to do is type in "abyss" and bam, it's there along with the folder of where it is. If I want to watch a downloaded show I can look up the folder of a specific season and _oh nooooo_ I can take the one second to pick the episode after search has brought me to the folder.
> 
> Your idea would work if you had a server farm of facebook data so you can see when Bobbie Pepsifan's dog puked in the beer by having post data linked to pictures, but for 99.9% of Lysol disinfectant of the time it's an overly massive waste of time unless your OCD and free time permit you have nothing better to do.


Dang you long filename haters.... Booo


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## kayjay010101 (Jan 7, 2021)

This discussion is really giving me TempleOS vibes.


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## Toothless (Jan 7, 2021)

SpectateSwamp said:


> Dang you long filename haters.... Booo


I don't hate it. I just see it as resources being spent that could be used elsewhere. If you spent all these years remastering Fate (dungeon crawler rpg) then you'd have my interest and money. If your code was cleaned, updated, and worked with all file names, types, and without long names which I assume it does, then yeah I'll be down with that. When your file name is longer than my full name and social security number there lies some wtf-ery.


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## Aquinus (Jan 7, 2021)

SpectateSwamp said:


> Dang you long filename haters.... Booo


That isn't it at all. I'm going to quote some of my earlier posts.


Aquinus said:


> Reinventing the wheel is okay if it's a better wheel. I personally see value in things like data deduplication and being able to search your files with your own metadata. I think there is value in that, but there isn't value in trying to cram all of that information in a filename. I think the idea is fine, I just question the implementation.





Aquinus said:


> All I'm saying is that good software solutions exist and that people like me, who do this kind of thing for a living, are going to take a different approach for good reasons and when you open your software for critique, expect some honest feedback.


I'm sorry, but your implementation is bad. The idea is good, but obsessing over filenames isn't going to get you anywhere. A good engineer doesn't do that.


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Jan 8, 2021)

Aquinus said:


> That isn't it at all. I'm going to quote some of my earlier posts.
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but your implementation is bad. The idea is good, but obsessing over filenames isn't going to get you anywhere. A good engineer doesn't do that.


My implementation isn't bad... It's the only one like it.. 
When long filenames have been discouraged... AND should have been praised... That isn't good engineering. 
Yup the greatest feature of programming and it has been ignored. Not good engineering as far as I'm concerned.


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## Toothless (Jan 8, 2021)

Thread is going nowhere at this point. This is really someone stuck in their ways that won't listen to reason or advice, and the "my way or highway" feeling is getting stronger. 

It's been proven long file names aren't a thing since barely anyone uses them. We already have file searching tools and have for a long time. Making a home brewed program and trying to make wine from water is cool and all, but literally you're the only one here that thinks it's the best thing ever. 

People have tried to help, give advice, politely correct, and you ignored it all. Nothing more to say since we're running into brick walls and those are bad for your teeth.


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Jan 8, 2021)

Toothless said:


> It's been proven long file names aren't a thing since barely anyone uses them. We already have file searching tools and have for a long time. Making a home brewed program and trying to make wine from water is cool and all, but literally you're the only one here that thinks it's the best thing ever.


Long FileNames aren't a thing because the Perfect Perfects have spent decades trying to make sense out of 8 character names... Impossible 

Within minutes of having access to Your videos, audio, pics and text... On an external drive....
You could be randomly playing the first 5 seconds of 'em all. 
Nothing is required to make use of the program... But long filenames make it a better search. 
For mp3 audio files... I do take the metadata and put it in the directory info for searching... 

There is more to curation than just searching... Lots more. 
I can play the first few seconds of every video and audio file... Checking for data degradation or just plain corrupt data. 

In looking at the metadata for over 14000 audio files... You'd be disappointed at how pathetic and useless  most of it is..
When metadata isn't immediately visible it can be bad forever..


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## Kursah (Jan 8, 2021)

Toothless said:


> Thread is going nowhere at this point. This is really someone stuck in their ways that won't listen to reason or advice, and the "my way or highway" feeling is getting stronger.
> 
> It's been proven long file names aren't a thing since barely anyone uses them. We already have file searching tools and have for a long time. Making a home brewed program and trying to make wine from water is cool and all, but literally you're the only one here that thinks it's the best thing ever.
> 
> People have tried to help, give advice, politely correct, and you ignored it all. Nothing more to say since we're running into brick walls and those are bad for your teeth.



Keep in mind the OP started this topic to share their solution, not asking for a different one. Not sure where that assumption came from? Maybe I missed SpectateSwamp seeking other recommendations but I'm not seeing it.

I'd like to remind everyone else of that as well, feel free to provide feedback, but there's no harm in someone sharing a solution even if its one that works for them that most in the general community here aren't open to or supportive of. While I may not be a fan of long file names, I have to give the OP credit for developing a system and process for said system that works for them. There's no harm in that, even if its not something I would want to change over to. The fact he's taking time to share it isn't for folks here to shame him about. 

Specate may not change his process simply because the other way is how many others do it and that's fine, its not harming anyone here. Its different, which makes some folks clearly uncomfortable, but let's not let that drive the dialog here as that's not what this topic is about. Its about the solution he's sharing with this community.

Let's all ensure we do our part to keep this topic constructive.


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## Frick (Jan 8, 2021)

I'm just curious about how you remember what files you have without organization.


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Jan 8, 2021)

Frick said:


> I'm just curious about how you remember what files you have without organization.


I know I have "bear" videos... 
I know I have video from golf tournaments. 
When I want to find stuff I have forgotten about. I run it randomly. 

AS well
The program operates off a Directory list containing all the mpg, jpg, mp3 files
searching that file (not in player mode) in context, can show everything complete...


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## claes (Jan 8, 2021)

r/datahoarder would have a field day with this thread lol. Imagine buying into this convention with 24TB of data... Probably spend a year of your life writing out the date.

Do what works for you, but don’t kid yourself about how well it will work for others.


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## Aquinus (Jan 9, 2021)

Kursah said:


> Specate may not change his process simply because the other way is how many others do it and that's fine, its not harming anyone here. Its different, which makes some folks clearly uncomfortable, but let's not let that drive the dialog here as that's not what this topic is about. Its about the solution he's sharing with this community.


That's not the problem. As I said before, if you open a project for critique, expect some honest feedback. This makes me uncomfortable because as a senior engineer, I'd probably want to can any of my engineers that thought this was a good implementation. I get that he's sharing it, but I think we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that it's a very limited implementation and the OP has some weird obsession with filenames. The idea isn't bad, but the implementation is questionable at best (and I'm being kind with my words.)

It started as honest feedback with suggestions for improvement, the OP has just rejected anything except for using filenames which is bizarre. No half decent engineer I know would dig their heels in on a particular implementation like the OP has. That alone is the reason for resistance. I don't sugarcoat my opinions for the sake of people's feelings, that doesn't make for good software or honest feedback.


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Jan 9, 2021)

I did a play catalog of all my test mp3 files...
The metadata is pathetic. One would never know how bad it is. 
along with a sample of the messy details.

Immediately after the catalog I'm ready to play 'em

For anyone that is interested in the ability to randomly play songs or video or pics
Just download the .exe and the associated .dll
run the catalog option
run a 2nd time with random set. 
Within minutes you will be amazed..
If you don't like the song... Kill it using the close... 
With the app icon right there a quick enter and it is running again with the same 
prompts... Almost too fast...


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## claes (Jan 9, 2021)

Of course your metadata is bad... you never took advantage of it...









						GitHub - beetbox/beets: music library manager and MusicBrainz tagger
					

music library manager and MusicBrainz tagger. Contribute to beetbox/beets development by creating an account on GitHub.




					github.com


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Jan 18, 2021)

claes said:


> Of course your metadata is bad... you never took advantage of it...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Few, very few people have ever seen metadata. I have and didn't like it. 
Nope there is corruption everywhere... and you can't see it.


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## claes (Jan 18, 2021)

SpectateSwamp said:


> Few, very few people have ever seen metadata. I have and didn't like it.
> Nope there is corruption everywhere... and you can't see it.


I’m sorry but I don’t know what you are suggesting... What corruption?

I could say “I’ve seen long file names and I don’t like them,” but I’m not sure how that would add to this thread.


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## evernessince (Jan 18, 2021)

altcapwn said:


> I don't recommend using long file name in an enterprise context, more precisely in "Windows" environment. Most of the programs doesn't support path longer dans 255 characters, and may cause issue in applications, backups and restore, shadowcopy, etc...
> 
> You should use tags instead of filename, or nomenclated filename. I raged at so much user because of this type of thinking, that all information must be in the filename. It's important to organize using folders AND filenames, not only filename.
> 
> But anyway, if you're a mac / linux user exclusively, it shouldn't pose any problem (except headache overtime).



The problem with tags is the larger the file, the longer it takes to apply the tags.  It's a huge PITA.  Tags are also limited in their use.  Not everything you want to tag will fit into a single category.  There can very likely be two or more categories you'd want to sort things into.  Really windows should allow the user to create custom meta data fields and given the limitations of NTFS that would have to be done on the OS side (not cross-os compatible).

I personally use a long filename + regex to split the name up into separate custom meta fields.  The solution definitely has it's downsides but it's a hell of a lot better than waiting 20 minutes for windows to tag a single file (this is on a HDD that gets 240 MB/s by the way, 16TB Seagate Exos) and it allows as many custom fields as I want.  

Also, avoid tagging MP4 files in windows unless you install Icaros. I lost of few files from corruption after I tagged them with the default mp4 handler.


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Jan 19, 2021)

evernessince said:


> The problem with tags is the larger the file, the longer it takes to apply the tags.  It's a huge PITA.  Tags are also limited in their use.  Not everything you want to tag will fit into a single category.  There can very likely be two or more categories you'd want to sort things into.  Really windows should allow the user to create custom meta data fields and given the limitations of NTFS that would have to be done on the OS side (not cross-os compatible).
> 
> I personally use a long filename + regex to split the name up into separate custom meta fields.  The solution definitely has it's downsides but it's a hell of a lot better than waiting 20 minutes for windows to tag a single file (this is on a HDD that gets 240 MB/s by the way, 16TB Seagate Exos) and it allows as many custom fields as I want.
> 
> Also, avoid tagging MP4 files in windows unless you install Icaros. I lost of few files from corruption after I tagged them with the default mp4 handler.


You are smart. Very smart. and thanks for the info.
Part of having long filenames; is the ability to rename the previous 8 character ones
My app has the ability to copy selected pics into another folder... For sending to friends....
It should be quite simple to change that to a Copy / Rename option... 
All I want is the ability to insert the folder info in front of the 8 chr one.. 
Many of my photos have notes in my text files... It could be useful for references. 

Big files are a problem... Videos for sure.. I keep all mine videos to 3 minutes or less.
When there are too many files in a folder, seeing directory info slows... Move half or more of them to a sub folder...



claes said:


> I’m sorry but I don’t know what you are suggesting... What corruption?
> 
> I could say “I’ve seen long file names and I don’t like them,” but I’m not sure how that would add to this thread.


Sorry.. The data is corrupt.. All data will eventually go corrupt... 
When I try and load the mp3 metadata, there are many non standard characters in the file. 
Also how useless the codes for genre are..


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Jan 21, 2021)

Frick said:


> I'm just curious about how you remember what files you have without organization.


Sorry my first answer wasn't that thought out. 

The first step in accessing the videos or pics... Is to create a catalog list of all files on a drive or folder.

THEN

I can open that list in any text editor and look OR just open the folder and look at the file names.

Having a very good search helps make use of these long filenames...
(I started working on mine in 1999 and been fiddling with it since..)

to look for bears in a specific year I enter:
bear/2020
There are more than 1 of these and the first one is presented and played. 
then the next.

or 

by looking at the file... using the search textual display I can see that the
one I want is where it is eating chokecherries.
I enter:
bear/2020/chok
instantly I am seeing my favorite bear. 

Or I can turn on Random
and search for:
bear
then the bear files (i have quite a few) are randomly played.


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## ThrashZone (Jan 21, 2021)

Hi,
Someone asking about organization doesn't understand what names are even for whether it's a file or folder lol


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Jan 21, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Someone asking about organization doesn't understand what names are even for whether it's a file or folder lol


But there are a few basics that they need to know. And not be made fun of.


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## ThrashZone (Jan 21, 2021)

SpectateSwamp said:


> But there are a few basics that they need to know. And not be made fun of.


Hi,
I didn't see it as a serious inquiry.


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Jan 21, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> I didn't see it as a serious inquiry.


I respect every inquiry... Just as if they were sitting right across from Me.
Waaaayyy more respect in person. I guess.

if you have windows give it a spin
check the source code if you want to see how simple this app is.
Everything you need to know about search is there.... Yup
You'll need to get a copy of msvbvm50.dll   short for microsoft visual basic????


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## ThrashZone (Jan 21, 2021)

Hi,
I usually wouldn't need a third party search engine 
20h2 seems to have removed all apps list 2004 did too lol so if this continues "fortunately I do not use win-10 all that much win-7 and linux" I'll have to do something with this nonsense
No accessories folder and no admin tools folder lol all dialog listing show the same 4 listings lol


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## Papahyooie (Jan 21, 2021)

Replying to sub. This is fascinating. He's turned a file system into a blobs database. Why? Who knows?! Mad lad.

+1 for templeOS vibes lol.


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Jan 22, 2021)

Papahyooie said:


> Replying to sub. This is fascinating. He's turned a file system into a blobs database. Why? Who knows?! Mad lad.
> 
> +1 for templeOS vibes lol.


Regular file systems are pathetic. 

The biggest plus of having long filenames and a GREAT search, is I no longer have Video and Picture block...
Caused by having way too many videos and pics that are unorganized, so I have very little impulse to shoot more. 
Not anymore for me and my Swampies.
Yesterday I did some pics of my favorite Llamas... I feed wild horses and they show up. 
I loaded them onto my PC, renamed them, did a quick catalog and was showing them Off
I like showing my pics and videos. The Spectate App is the very best file system....


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## SpectateSwampBANNED (Jan 24, 2021)

Blockage cleared.
I prioritize doing new video and curating 'em asap.
and
putting curation older ones on the back burner.

I'm always more interested in fresh fresh more than old and un cataloged stuff.


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