# Longest "confirmed kill" sniper shot



## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Jun 22, 2017)

A Canadian sniper has beaten the record for the longest confirmed kill in military history by picking off an ISIS fighter from  11,319 feet.

The bullet was fired from a McMillan TAC-50 rifle set on a high-rise tower and took 10 seconds to travel the 2.14 miles towards the fighter, who was attacking Iraqi soldiers.

This smashed the last record set by a Briton Craig Harrison, who killed a Taliban soldier with a 338 Lapua Magnum rifle at a range of 8,120 feet(1.54 miles) in 2009.







https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMillan_Tac-50


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## therealmeep (Jun 22, 2017)

Crazy you can shoot that far and have the accuracy to hit something. The 10 second flight time reminds me of a nerf dart now.


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## droopyRO (Jun 22, 2017)

I wish them many record breaking shots.
Many things can happen in 10 seconds, probably a stationary target. 
I`m more amazed that the bullet had energy left to kill at that range.


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## erocker (Jun 22, 2017)

I don't think I've made a paper airplane that could fly 10 seconds. That's an amazing shot! Like, you could shoot, take a sip of coffee and tie your shoe, look back through your scope and splat!


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## jboydgolfer (Jun 22, 2017)

the TAC.50 is a beast.

Bolt action FTW.




Spoiler: Big Gun












imagine getting hit with THIS "rifle" actually meant to fire on tanks/armor 
20mm Lahti...but it IS technically a rilfe as it is fired by a man, on the ground, not like a howitzer, etc, only uses two "feet" or "snow shoes"


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## qubit (Jun 22, 2017)

And it was isis that it nailed from over 2 miles away. Yeah. 

You just brightened up my day, Caps.


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## Xzibit (Jun 22, 2017)

Campers


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## agent_x007 (Jun 22, 2017)

I think it's ugly :/
This is 20mm sniper I like (Anzio 20mm "Vulcan") : LINK


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## MrGenius (Jun 22, 2017)

droopyRO said:


> I`m more amazed that the bullet had energy left to kill at that range.


That made me curious. So I did some research.

2.14 miles = 3766.4 yards
M1022 Long-Range Sniper Ammunition = .50 caliber 650-grain projectile, initial/muzzle velocity 2750 fps
Estimated drop in elevation(distance the bullet drops from barrel level to target) = ~9409 inches/~784 feet/~261 yards/~239 meters
Estimated energy(ft.lbs. force retained by the bullet at target) = ~1155 ft.lbf.
Estimated velocity(speed in Feet Per Second retained by the bullet at target) = ~895 ft/s

Estimations based on the following chart :
http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?t=1da2e6db

I used default .50 BMG values for calculation(except for bullet weight and initial/muzzle velocity, which I guessed would be that of the M1022). And without any correction for atmosphere.

So...the energy of the bullet related to its potential to kill a human at that range is roughly equivalent to dropping a half inch diameter pointy object that weighs ~1155 lbs. a distance of 1 foot. If you were to do that on a human target...I can definitely imagine it being lethal.

EDIT: I just realized I could adjust chart step size from 25 yds. to 1 yd. So the calculations could be more accurate(for exactly 3766 yds. vs. 3750 yds). Not that much difference really. But I'm going to make the corrections to the info above anyway.


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Jun 22, 2017)

MrGenius said:


> That made me curious. So I did some research.
> 
> 2.14 miles = 3766.4 yards
> M1022 Long-Range Sniper Ammunition = .50 caliber 650-grain projectile
> ...




beautiful...........it doesnt even matter if you are wrong.........


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## Mr.Scott (Jun 22, 2017)

I had a head shot at 3/4 of a mile when I was in the PI. That was my longest kill.
McMillan M88


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## Beastie (Jun 22, 2017)

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> This smashed the last record set by a Briton Craig Harrison, who killed a Taliban soldier with a 338 Lapua Magnum rifle at a range of 8,120 feet(1.54 miles) in 2009.



 338 Lapua Magnum is the ammo. The gun was an Accuracy International L115A3, apparently.


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## Nuckles56 (Jun 23, 2017)

239m bullet drop at that range, dear god. I'm amazed that they actually hit the guy. And also lucky he didn't move too much


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## jboydgolfer (Jun 23, 2017)

When the curve of the earth becomes a factor in your shot, you KNOW its a long shot.

Also, distant shots like these are always best when done from high altitude like the tower mentioned in the op....makes bullet drop "easier" to deal with


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## MrGenius (Jun 23, 2017)

jboydgolfer said:


> When the curve of the earth becomes a factor in your shot, you KNOW its a long shot.


Yeah...between compensating for that, the elavation/bullet drop, the windage, and other atmospheric conditions...it's mind boggling how you could possibly even hit a human size target at that range. Not to mention make a 1 shot kill. It would be pretty hard to argue there wasn't some luck involved. Nobody's really that good of a marksman.


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## stinger608 (Jun 23, 2017)

Not to brag.........Okay, maybe LOL. I killed an elk at about 700 yards years ago. 

Shot with a 7mm Remington Mag.


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## peche (Jun 23, 2017)

jboydgolfer said:


> Bolt action FTW.




thats why i love chey tac 408 "Intervention" never fired one, but always wanted!



Spoiler: another big gun


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## agent_x007 (Jun 23, 2017)

MrGenius said:


> Yeah...between compensating for that, the elavation/bullet drop, the windage, and other atmospheric conditions...it's mind boggling how you could possibly even hit a human size target at that range. Not to mention make a 1 shot kill. It would be pretty hard to argue there wasn't some luck involved. Nobody's really that good of a marksman.


Q : Can "target" hear the shot that will kill him in few seconds (ie. he hears "bang" before bullet kills him) ?


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Jun 23, 2017)

No, the bullet is travelling faster than the speed of sound. If he could see the muzzle he would see the flash/smoke  because it is travelling at the speed of light.


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## dorsetknob (Jun 23, 2017)

agent_x007 said:


> Q : Can "target" hear the shot that will kill him in few seconds (ie. he hears "bang" before bullet kills him) ?





CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> the fighter, who was attacking Iraqi soldiers.


He might have but seeing he was in a firefight with iraqi soldiers nearby he would not have noticed a shot sound from over 2 miles away


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Jun 23, 2017)

dorsetknob said:


> He might have



the laws of physics prevent this.

if the bullet was travelling at mach 2 and took 10 seconds to arrive then the sound would take 20 seconds 

so

the isis guy would have been shagging virgins for a good 10 seconds before the sound arrived


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## DeathtoGnomes (Jun 23, 2017)

Damn 10 seconds, you could shoot, have lunch, go for a pee and be back at the scope in time to see the actual hit.


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## agent_x007 (Jun 23, 2017)

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> the laws of physics prevent this.
> 
> if the bullet was travelling at mach 2 and took 10 seconds to arrive then the sound would take 20 seconds


Well, sure muzzle velocity of the shell (using wiki link in first post) is 805 m/s, so 2.3 Mach to be exact.
But my problem is with a bullet that MUST slow down with range.
That's why you I highly doubt you will have a bullet doing 2 Mach at the 11,319 feet mark, and "target" may actually hear the shot (assuming fight will stop for a brief moment to hear the sniper shot).

If bullet will slow down to 0,4 Mach at the target, both sound and bullet itself should arrive at the same time (if my simple math is right).
If bullet is faster than that, he won't hear the shot, if it's slower - he could*.
@MrGenius based speed on 0.50 BMG chart.
Problem with this for 20mm shell is two fold :
1) Bigger bullet = more drag,
2) Bigger bullet = more weight.
At which point those two cancel each other is beyond my knowledge.

PS. *I know you probably can't hear a sniper shot from over 2 miles/3 kilometers away (maybe if it was Tank's main gun shooting at you ).
This is just a simple brain exercise


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## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 23, 2017)

agent_x007 said:


> Well, sure muzzle velocity of the shell (using wiki link in first post) is 805 m/s, so 2.3 Mach to be exact.
> But my problem is with a bullet that MUST slow down with range.
> That's why you I highly doubt you will have a bullet doing 2 Mach at the 11,319 feet mark, and "target" may actually hear the shot (assuming fight will stop for a brief moment to hear the sniper shot).
> 
> ...



Even in complete silence the bullet is coming towards you and the sound is always behind it. Maybe if you had spidey sense.


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## agent_x007 (Jun 23, 2017)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Even in complete silence the bullet is coming towards you and the *sound is always behind it*. Maybe if you had spidey sense.


Not always. 
~895 ft/s (from .50 BMG case), is less than 1.0 Mach.
So, sound a bullet makes at that point is a bit faster than bullet itself.


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## MrGenius (Jun 23, 2017)

There's some math involved that is way beyond my knowledge to give an accurate depiction of the event. What I do "know" is that the bullet wasn't traveling faster than the speed of sound during its entire flight. Exactly for how long or how far along its flight path it was supersonic is something I can only gather from the previously linked chart. Which only provides a rough idea. Since I didn't know some of the values to enter to make a more accurate calculation. And I can't verify the accuracy of results even if I did. As I'm no ballistics expert.

Anyhow, the chart says that the bullet slowed below the speed of sound(or 1116 ft/s) at a distance of ~2550 yds., and/or after ~4.52 seconds of flight time. And for the last ~1216 yds., and/or ~3.76 seconds, of its trajectory it was subsonic. There's a discrepancy in the 10 second flight time reported and the ~8.28 second flight time the chart states. I don't know who's right there. At any rate, we can estimate that the bullet was supersonic for roughly around the first half of the time, or two thirds of the distance, it took to reach the target. And for roughly the last half of the time, or last third of the distance, it was subsonic. But its subsonic speed was still quite fast. In fact it never, at any point, slowed below Mach .75, or ¾ the speed of sound, or 837 ft/s. Its slowest speed was ~895 ft/s when it reached the target. 

So did the sound of the rifle firing ever catch up with the bullet? Good question. I don't know. My best guess is no, it did not. Another question is could it be easily heard at that distance even if it did? I can answer that with a better guess. Yes, it most likely could. Since I've heard how loud a .50 BMG being fired is first hand. It's LOUD! VERY LOUD!! Sounds like a small cannon being fired(which I've also heard first hand). Makes a .30-06 sound like a small firecracker in comparison. I wouldn't be surprised if you could easily hear it 5 miles away or more.


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## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 23, 2017)

I suppose the sound could surpass the shell eventually but like you said sound dissipates. Another aspect is the angle of the muzzle...the sound was not directed at the target it was elevated way above to adjust for drop..so my point there is even less sound would be in the direction of the target. I guess if sound didn't dissipate and was not directional it could happen.


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## agent_x007 (Jun 23, 2017)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Another aspect is the angle of the muzzle...*the sound was not directed at the target* it was elevated way above to adjust for drop..so my point there is even less sound would be in the direction of the target. I guess if sound didn't dissipate and was not directional it could happen.


Aren't all soundwaves generated by explosion/detonation onmidirectional by default (+ can bounce off the ground) ?


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## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 23, 2017)

sure, except this is a controlled explosion with a directional force. Stand behind a rifle and shoot, then stand on the side.  Which is louder? Try not to test this by standing in front.


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## peche (Jun 23, 2017)

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> the laws of physics prevent this.
> 
> if the bullet was travelling at mach 2 and took 10 seconds to arrive then the sound would take 20 seconds
> 
> ...


" From a place you dont see, comes a sound you wont heard... to take your life..."
Learned that in a place i want to come some day back !

Regards,


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## agent_x007 (Jun 23, 2017)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> sure, except this is a controlled explosion with a directional force.


But side and rear don't matter in this case because "Target" is ALWAYS in front of the rifle/gun.
Also, I highly doubt sniper that was shooting used bullet drop to loop over buldings or rocks or stuff like that (ie. sound should have a direct path to target as well).
^If he indeed loop over stuff to get a kill... thats some BF3 jet sniper kill from air stuff right here (God-mode engaged ).


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## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 23, 2017)

agent_x007 said:


> But side and rear don't matter in this case because "Target" is ALWAYS in front of the rifle/gun.
> Also, I highly doubt sniper that was shooting used bullet drop to loop over buldings or rocks or stuff like that (ie. sound should have a direct path to target as well).
> ^If he indeed loop over stuff to get a kill... thats some BF3 jet sniper kill from air stuff right here



No, I am just saying the main cone of sound is not being aimed directly at the target. Like a trumpet. A trumpet is louder when you are directly in front of it because most of the sound is being directed in a cone in front. The bullet also didn't have a linear path to the target..huge elevation was needed which points the "trumpet" up in the air. Just having fun here it is a bit of a brain exercise.


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## agent_x007 (Jun 23, 2017)

I agree it's not direct, but in this case that effect doesn't matter.
Here's a basic "paint job" :



^This is based on .50 BMG but it's a good example : Target is only 14,5% under direct line.
So, in case of trumpet example :
How good can you hear it, if it's 3 feet away and your ears are located ~5 inches below direct line to it ?
I hope you understand my point


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## Bones (Jun 23, 2017)

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> the isis guy would have been shagging virgins for a good 10 seconds before the sound arrived



Could be _they were shagging him_ - I don't recall them ever being described beyond just being "Virgins".... And 72 of them?
Talk about a line..... 
Not to mention the imagination running wild over it too.....


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## EarthDog (Jun 23, 2017)

BOOM HEADSHOT!!!

That is all.


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## MrGenius (Jun 24, 2017)

I screwed up. Let me show you what, how, and why it matters.

What?


MrGenius said:


> 2.14 miles = 3766.4 yards
> M1022 Long-Range Sniper Ammunition = .50 caliber 650-grain projectile, initial/muzzle velocity 2750 fps
> *Estimated drop in elevation(distance the bullet drops from barrel level to target) = ~9409 inches/~784 feet/~261 yards/~239 meters
> Estimated energy(ft.lbs. force retained by the bullet at target) = ~1155 ft.lbf.
> ...



How?

Because for the zero range I used the default value of 100 yds. for the calculation. When I should have changed that to 3766 yds(for a better approximation). Since, due to the way a sniper *typically* aims at a target, the zero range effectively(more or less) becomes the distance from the barrel(or rather the muzzle) that the target is located. Either through adjusting the optics to be zeroed on the target(+ or - in elevation from a known zero range/distance), and/or by holding over or under(aiming directly above or below) the target by a certain amount. The correct hold over or under amount can be determined by using a MIL-Dot reticle scope and knowing the precise distance to the target. Meaning...if you know how far away the target is, and you know what distance the scope is zeroed for, you can then adjust the scope so that the target is directly centered in the reticle(requiring no hold over/under). And/or if you know the distance the scope has been zeroed to(the zero range), and you now how much farther or closer the target is to that distance, you can then calculate how much hold over or under is needed, and determine(by understanding how the MIL-Dot system works) which dot in the reticle will give you the correct zero when centered on the target. Which is oversimplifying things a little. Since, depending on the distance to the target, and the limits of how fine of an adjustment can be made to the scope, you may need to center the target(more or less) between two dots(or the vertical post and a dot) to get a good zero. There's also windage adjustments...but that's a whole other story.

Why does that matter?

Because it gives a significantly different trajectory. Which has a direct effect on several of the numbers derived from the calculations. And that's been bugging me. So I'm going to jump in here one more time and fix it. Alright...here goes.

2.14 miles = 3766.4 yards
M1022 Long-Range Sniper Ammunition = .50 caliber 650-grain projectile, initial/muzzle velocity 2750 fps
*Estimated climb in elevation(distance the bullet climbs upward from muzzle level before dropping downward towards the target) = ~3640 inches/~303 feet/~101 yards/~92 meters*
*Estimated energy(ft.lbs. force retained by the bullet at target) = ~1116 ft.lbf.
Estimated velocity(speed in Feet Per Second retained by the bullet at target) = ~879 ft/s*

Estimations based on the following chart:
http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?t=08306eb8

Again, I used default .50 BMG values for calculation(except for bullet weight and initial/muzzle velocity, which I guessed would be that of the M1022). And without any correction for atmosphere.

So...the energy of the bullet related to its potential to kill a human at that range is roughly equivalent to dropping a half inch diameter pointy object that weighs *~1116 lbs.* a distance of 1 foot.

As you can see, that changes the calculations/estimations considerably.

What does the new trajectory with a zero range of 3766 yds. look like when compared to the previous trajectory with a zero range of 100 yds.?

Zero range of 3766 yds.





Zero range of 100 yds.





As you can also plainly see, it looks quite different too.

Since the bullet flight time is only increased by ~.05 seconds(from ~8.28 to ~8.33), the distance at which the bullet slows to subsonic speed is only ~37 feet less(from ~2550 to ~2513), the estimated speed of the bullet at the target is only ~16 ft/s less(from ~895 to ~879), and the difference between ~1155 ft.lbf. and ~1116 ft.lbf. is you're dead and you're still dead, I don't really need to correct my previous statements on any of those. Since it's pretty much irrelevant. So my job is done here.

Cool...I feel much better know.


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