# Impossible Ground Loop?? Tried for months.



## kennytroy (Jun 12, 2018)

> EDIT: Probable Solution
> 
> From the information I've gathered the cause seems to be my unbalanced dual 1/4" to 3.5mm aux cable.
> 
> Solution: Return my internal soundcard that I just purchased. Buy a USB interface, and buy two individual XLR cables to run from the L/R speaker independently into the two balanced L/R XLR ports on the USB adapter.



Hello, first I want to thank you for reading this and offering any advice possible.

*I have been struggling with what I assume is a 120Hz ground loop issue for months now since building my PC, and I have read nearly everything and tried 85% of solutions suggested on the internet - nothing seems to work.*

I will give all relevant information as neatly as possible, followed by solutions I have tried. Located in U.S.A.

*My PC Build*

Motherboard: TUF Z270 Mark II
Graphics Card: GTX 1050 Ti
Power Supply: EVGA 550 G3
Cooling: Corsair H60
Memory: 16GB TridentZ RGB (8gb x 2)
Processor: i7 7700k
Internal Soundcard: Audigy Rx
Monitor: Samsung CF591 27" Curved
Speakers: Yamaha HS7's

** Please note that I purchased my internal Audigy Rx soundcard as a "solution" after already having experienced this buzzing for several months via my graphic card's audio card.

*How I'm Connected*

I have a lot of wires running between my computer, monitor, and my TV which is wall-mounted directly above my desktop build.  I assumed this was a problem, so for simplicity I disconnected everything and only connected what is necessary to solving this problem.

Wall Outlet -> Power strip with three connections: (1) computer power supply, (2,3) power cords for both Yamaha HS7 speakers

I am connected from the speakers to my desktop via dual 1/4" to 3.5mm aux.

*What I've Tried, What Doesn't Work*

- Disconnected all other wires that are not my computer's power supply, and my two Yamaha HS7 speaker power cords, does not work
- Purchased an internal Audigy Rx soundcard, does not work
- I have tired three different outlets in my room, and even tried outlets in other rooms, does not work
- My computer is placed on a cardboard box so that it is not touching carpet, does not work
- Tried external USB adapter, does not work
- Tried a second pair of 1/4" to 3.5mm cables, does not work

*Other Connections That Work*
- Plugging the dual 1/4" to 3.5mm aux into my phone
- Plugging the dual 1/4" to 3.5mm aux into my laptop, with the laptop power cord plugged into the same [or different] outlet as the speakers

*What the flying fuck is happening?*

I am at a total loss. I was going to buy one of those Hum X ground loop adapters, but I am SO HESITANT to continue spending money on solutions that seem to not be working.

Is there a hardware problem?
Is it a problem with my 1/4" cables?
Is there incompatibility somewhere in the electricity field?
Am I totally fucked?

Thank you guys so much.


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## Jetster (Jun 12, 2018)

So whats the problem ? sound, video and what country
Adapter?
What USB interface, how you going to 1/4 in?
Are you using TRS balanced cables on your monitors (three prongs) not two

Balanced Cables and Signals

A balanced cable, by contrast, has three conductors in the connector and three wires in the cable: two signals wires plus a separate ground wire. As in the unbalanced cable, the ground wire still surrounds the signal wires and is used as a shield against interference. But what makes a balanced cable special is the way the gear utilizes that extra signal wire.
A final note: a monaural, balanced signal requires a TRS plug - tip is audio plus, ring is audio minus, sleeve is shield ground and carries no audio!


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## Deleted member 67555 (Jun 12, 2018)

Have you tried other speakers to rule out the HS7's....
Issue sounds like an amp grounding issue.


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## bug (Jun 12, 2018)

For all the details you have provided, you haven't stated your problem.
_If_ your problem is audio buzzing, the solution is simple: use a digital out.


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## Caring1 (Jun 12, 2018)

If you keep your phone on the desk near the speakers, move it away.


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## kennytroy (Jun 12, 2018)

Jetster said:


> So whats the problem ? sound, video and what country
> Adapter?
> What USB interface, how you going to 1/4 in?
> Are you using TRS balanced cables on your monitors (three prongs) not two
> ...



_I am experiencing what sounds like a 120hz hum coming from both speakers. Sorry I did not include this at the beginning._

United States.

I am not using a USB interface, I am plugging the dual 1/4" to 3.5mm aux cable from my Yamaha speakers directly into my desktop's graphic card audio port [and now I am instead using an internal Audigy Rx soundcard]. Below is a photo of my actual cable (one of the two, they're near the same though)






All my power cords have three prongs.

Appreciate the help!


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## johnspack (Jun 12, 2018)

Your images don't seem to be working!  Also,  I had the same type of issue.  Turned out to be my cable for my tv and internet.  Had the cable co come out and ground my cable,
hum gone.


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## kennytroy (Jun 12, 2018)

jmcslob said:


> Have you tried other speakers to rule out the HS7's....
> Issue sounds like an amp grounding issue.



I have a pair of KRK Rokit 5's, I will try them when I get home from this business meeting ~ one hour. One of the ports is broken due to a rowdy friend of mine at a party, so I have not used them in over a year.



johnspack said:


> Your images don't seem to be working!  Also,  I had the same type of issue.  Turned out to be my cable for my tv and internet.  Had the cable co come out and ground my cable,
> hum gone.



You know I did think this was the issue, but I completely removed the DirecTV box from my room! (I don't watch TV so I told my parent's to cancel it).

*There is still a [coaxial?] wire running through my wall, though it is not connected to anything and I have since removed the DirecTv connected home adapter/ethernet so there is literally nothing but a coax wire dead by itself laying on the ground. It is running through the wall along with my desktop's Ethernet cable - perhaps this is the issue? Though I have the ground loop problem even when my ethernet cable is unplugged.*

* I have also tried moving my entire desktop to other rooms and using different outlets in those rooms, so I am hesitant to say it is my TV/ethernet cables interfering.



Caring1 said:


> If you keep your phone on the desk near the speakers, move it away.


Tried, even turned off my phone and put it in another room :/


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## bug (Jun 12, 2018)

Analog outputs more often than not pick up interference from inside the PC case. That's why I said you should be using a digital out. Not sure how that will fit into your setup though.


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## Jetster (Jun 12, 2018)

Adapters suck. Buy a USB interface that way its digital all the way to the DAC. Just get one off Amazon and if it doesn't fix the problems send it back.


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## kennytroy (Jun 12, 2018)

jmcslob said:


> Have you tried other speakers to rule out the HS7's....
> Issue sounds like an amp grounding issue.



Tried to connect my KRK Rokit 5's and that is a no-go. They must be blown or entirely broken because there is the loudest low frequency hum you could possibly imagine (not the same type of 120hz static-buzzing from my HS7's) - this issue occurs when I merely plug in the 1/4" cables to the speakers, even without plugging the 3.5mm aux into my computer. These speakers seem useless to me unfortunately


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## Jetster (Jun 12, 2018)

Does it do it with just the cable and no adapter

Get a DAC

https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-UMC22-BEHRINGER-U-PHORIA/dp/B00FFIGZF6


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## kennytroy (Jun 12, 2018)

Jetster said:


> Adapters suck. Buy a USB interface that way its digital all the way to the DAC. Just get one off Amazon and if it doesn't fix the problems send it back.



If I purchase a USB interface, such as this one, I would need to purchase two 1/4" to 1/4" cables to run each from the L/R speaker to the L/R balanced input correct?


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## thebluebumblebee (Jun 12, 2018)

kennytroy said:


> Wall Outlet -> Power strip with three connections:


Have you tried not using that?


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## Jetster (Jun 12, 2018)

kennytroy said:


> If I purchase a USB interface, such as this one, I would need to purchase two 1/4" to 1/4" cables to run each from the L/R speaker to the L/R balanced input correct?
> 
> View attachment 102345


Correct, its what i have
Scarlett 2i2


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## kennytroy (Jun 12, 2018)

For the KRK Rokit 5's, as soon as I plug the L/R cable into both speakers the loud hum will begin, regardless of whether I plug the 3.5mm aux into my computer. If I do not plug in the dual 1/4" cables then there is no hum.

My KRK Rokits are undoubtedly broken which prompted me to buy new Yamaha HS7'S - I have not used the KRK's in over two years.



thebluebumblebee said:


> Have you tried not using that?



Sadly yes. I have tried plugging the speakers directly into a wall outlet without the power strip, I have tried using three different power strips, I have tried using five different outlets in various rooms in my house.

It seems to be a problem with my actual desktop build


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## Jetster (Jun 12, 2018)

I think its your adapter and cable. But I could be wrong. Only way to find out of pull that sound card and get a proper interface

Allot of adapters are made in China and are complete crap. Its a big market


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## thebluebumblebee (Jun 12, 2018)

Edit: What case do you have?  Did you have another computer before this build and did it have the problem?
Have you tested your house's wiring?  Just start with one of these that you can get for $5:


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## kennytroy (Jun 12, 2018)

thebluebumblebee said:


> Edit: What case do you have?  Did you have another computer before this build and did it have the problem?
> Have you tested your house's wiring?  Just start with one of these that you can get for $5:



I do not know the case, but here is a picture of my exterior and interior wiring. I did not have another desktop build, this is my first solo build. Previous to this I used a Toshiba laptop, no issues (still no issues, I just plugged it into the speakers on the same setup as it runs to my desktop).

I have not tested my house's wiring. I will check into the thing you linked me, as well as the USB interface, I'm just very hesitant to continue buying things that seem to leave me in the same shitty position as before.



Jetster said:


> I think its your adapter and cable. But I could be wrong. Only way to find out of pull that sound card and get a proper interface
> 
> Allot of adapters are made in China and are complete crap. Its a big market



When you say adapter which part are you referring to? I have tried two different 1/4" cables to 3.5mm cables and neither worked.

I do think it is a problem with my computer build unfortunately.

Jeez these USB interfaces run easily $100+, and I just purchased an internal soundcard for $70 yesterday (which I'm about to return since it did not solve my issue, but Micro Center is 45 minutes away so that's a pain in the ass..)


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## Jetster (Jun 12, 2018)

Yeah I know. Sound is a pain in general. It gets expensive. But adapters is not the way to do things. I've learned that more times then I care to mention


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## kennytroy (Jun 12, 2018)

Thank you all for your help.

From the information I've gathered the cause seems to be my unbalanced dual 1/4" to 3.5mm aux cable.

Solution: Return my internal soundcard that I just purchased. Buy a USB interface, and buy two individual XLR cables to run from the L/R speaker independently into the two balanced L/R XLR ports on the USB adapter.


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## thebluebumblebee (Jun 12, 2018)

When you built this, did you have problems getting the I/O panel to line up with the motherboard?


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## kennytroy (Jun 12, 2018)

thebluebumblebee said:


> When you built this, did you have problems getting the I/O panel to line up with the motherboard?


Not really at all to my knowledge, I can move it to another slot with ease. The one problem I do have is that I lost one of the super tiny screws that holds it perfectly level in place on the far side of the card, though it is managing well enough without.


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## thebluebumblebee (Jun 12, 2018)

kennytroy said:


> The one problem I do have is that I lost one of the super tiny screws


Inside the case?


kennytroy said:


> Not really at all to my knowledge, I can move it to another slot with ease.


No, not the audio card.  The plate that you installed on the back of the case before you put the motherboard in.


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## xorbe (Jun 12, 2018)

I wound up using optical out to external dac to solve hum.  Nothing else I tried worked.  The DAC output is unbalanced running to balanced inputs, no problem except perhaps lower volume level.  Optical in DAC w/balanced outputs are stupid expensive.


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## Athlonite (Jun 12, 2018)

kennytroy said:


> I do not know the case, but here is a picture of my exterior and interior wiring.



That's a shocking setup all those cables near your audio card plus the fact that your GPU and audio card are not secured by screws to the case


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## kennytroy (Jun 12, 2018)

Athlonite said:


> That's a shocking setup all those cables near your audio card plus the fact that your GPU and audio card are not secured by screws to the case



What would be the best way to minimize their contact/crossing? I could shove them into the sections on the right side which are empty, but many of them do not reach that far or fit/bend in such a way


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## nomdeplume (Jun 12, 2018)

No idea what 85% you tried but I would start with buying some ferrite cores.  1/2" or larger for power cables and smaller for others as needed.  The trick is to have a large enough diameter opening you can loop the cords two or three times inside it.  This could also be needing to replace your cable from the sound card/computer to the speakers with ones from another brand.  I would do this and then worry about needing a digital interface + XLR cables


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## Athlonite (Jun 12, 2018)

kennytroy said:


> What would be the best way to minimize their contact/crossing? I could shove them into the sections on the right side which are empty, but many of them do not reach that far or fit/bend in such a way




well from the pic it looks like you have an modular PSU but it looks like you've got every cable it came with plugged into it when really all you need is only those cables needed to power devices any others shouldn't be in there also buy and use cable ties to tie cables away from addin cards like audio cards they're really sensitive to RFI also screw those cards to the case with a screw ie: the GPU and Audio cards don't leave them dangling like that


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## thebluebumblebee (Jun 12, 2018)

Some thoughts on your build:
*Looks like you installed the AIO according to Corsair's directions which makes sure that the AIO performs its best while ignoring the needs of the rest of the build.  If that fan is blowing in, and you have a fan in the front blowing in, where is the air to go?
*@Athlonite just beat me to the modular cable issue.

Further suggestion:
Try disconnecting the front port audio cable (from the motherboard) and see if the noise goes away.  Next, try disconnecting the internal USB cables.  If that fixes it, go buy a better case.
Beyond that, you might need to remove your components from that case and assemble them on cardboard to see if it's something from the case.  If the I/O panel has little "fingers", it's easy to have them end up in the wrong place (I've had to disassemble my own systems even though I thought I had paid close attention to this), which can cause problems.


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## kennytroy (Jun 12, 2018)

nomdeplume said:


> No idea what 85% you tried but I would start with buying some ferrite cores.  1/2" or larger for power cables and smaller for others as needed.  The trick is to have a large enough diameter opening you can loop the cords two or three times inside it.  This could also be needing to replace your cable from the sound card/computer to the speakers with ones from another brand.  I would do this and then worry about needing a digital interface + XLR cables



Thank you for suggesting these ferrite cores, never heard of them before but them seem as if they will tidy up everything. Appreciated



Athlonite said:


> well from the pic it looks like you have an modular PSU but it looks like you've got every cable it came with plugged into it when really all you need is only those cables needed to power devices any others shouldn't be in there also buy and use cable ties to tie cables away from addin cards like audio cards they're really sensitive to RFI also screw those cards to the case with a screw ie: the GPU and Audio cards don't leave them dangling like that



I likely do have every cable it came with plugged in. This was my first computer build so I was quite anxious about messing anything up and seemingly just made sure everything had a place to be plugged in, which turns out is not the way to go about a proper build. I've purchased some cable ties omw home from the gym, when I have some spare time later tonight I will remove excess cords and tie things together in a neat fashion.

Not sure where those little extra screws to hold up my GPU and audio card went so I'll try to buy some at Micro Center tonight -- speaking of which, I am actually returning the internal soundcard, being that it did not solve my issue and I will instead purchase a USB interface.



thebluebumblebee said:


> Some thoughts on your build:
> *Looks like you installed the AIO according to Corsair's directions which makes sure that the AIO performs its best while ignoring the needs of the rest of the build.  If that fan is blowing in, and you have a fan in the front blowing in, where is the air to go?
> *@Athlonite just beat me to the modular cable issue.
> 
> ...



How would I go about ensuring the Corsair fan blows air out? Honestly I assumed they would not have a cooling fan blowing toward the inside.. this doesn't quite make sense to me at all.

I'll have to do some research into "disconnecting the front port audio cable from the motherboard" as I have no clue what I would be doing and don't want to risk permanently damaging any hardware. Will update tonight or tomorrow.

The I/O panel does have little fingers directed toward the interior of the case, but they are all attached and accounted for from what I've just looked at.

Appreciate all the help guys!

*From what I've gathered from Hugh at SoundOnSound, he said that purchasing a USB interface with two individual XLR cables (one for the left speaker, one for the right) should provide a balanced audio input and solve my problem. He assures me the issue is coming from using an unbalanced dual 1/4" to 3.5mm aux cable.*


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## Jetster (Jun 12, 2018)

You do needs to secure those cards in the case. Fans direction is the side the wire is on is exhaust. There is usually an arrow on the side of most fans


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## Hood (Jun 13, 2018)

kennytroy said:


> The I/O panel does have little fingers directed toward the interior of the case, but they are all attached and accounted for from what I've just looked at




What he means is that it's very common for these grounding tabs to end up inside a port, like in this photo - 


 get a flashlight and examine them all carefully.  If any are inside ports you must remove the motherboard to correct this.



kennytroy said:


> How would I go about ensuring the Corsair fan blows air out? Honestly I assumed they would not have a cooling fan blowing toward the inside.. this doesn't quite make sense to me at all.


  PC fans can be mounted in either direction, but all fans suck air in from the blade side, and out the frame side, as in this photo - 





kennytroy said:


> Not sure where those little extra screws to hold up my GPU and audio card went so I'll try to buy some at Micro Center tonight


These are 6-32 machine screws, with thumbscrew head if desired - 

 they are also used for the power supply, motherboard, hard drives etc. - they are the most common screws in a PC - 



And clean up that wiring, it's a mess, possibly affecting sound quality, and not good for air flow either.


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## EsaT (Jun 14, 2018)

Hood said:


> These are 6-32 machine screws, with thumbscrew head if desired - they are also used for the power supply, motherboard, hard drives etc. - they are the most common screws in a PC - .


Actually only PSU and 3.5" HDDs are quarateedly with 6-32 screws.
Optical drives (+ quite many 5.25" bay devices) and 2.5" drives use finer thread M3.
Which one is used elsewhere depends on case.
In some expansion card brackets are secured with M3 screws.

Anyway any PC screw kits sold by PC hardware shops should come with both type screws.


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## Jetster (Jun 14, 2018)

Just fine someone throwing a PC away
Or buy a screw kit of $10


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