# What to look for in a new home theater display



## twilyth (Nov 7, 2011)

*tl;dr section*
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My old Sony KDS-50A2000, a rear projection SXRD based display, looks to once again be developing the green shadow of death.  As you may know, many SXRD models were plagued with a greenish tint after prolonged use.  That happened to mine, but since it was under an extended warranty, I got a replacement light engine costing about $1200 for free.

However I'm now out of the warranty period.  I had it covered for 5 years and since I got this display as soon as it was available, it's now been over 5 years.  The problem is barely noticeable at this point though.  i only saw a slight greenish shadow when I had the pale blue W7 desktop displayed.  And that was only over a part of the screen in the lower right quadrant.  I can't see it with other backgrounds, but it's definitely there.

I still have a spare bulb for the unit so I intend to run it into the ground.  The problem is there's no way to know how quickly the problem will progress.  The tv is on pretty much 24/7 even though I probably only watch 3-4 hours of financial news and maybe 1-3 hours of entertainment programming per day.  That's because I tend to watch in small increments and often forget to set the shut off timer before I go to bed.

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*The important bits*

Anyway, I might soon be in the market for a replacement, so I'd like to hear people's opinions (with supporting evidence if easily available) on what to look for in a new set.

The max diagonal size is 55" since it will mounted on an industrial shelving system.  This rides on 4" wheels so I can reposition it easily.  At 55", the width comes in at just under the 48" width of the shelves (47.94").  However since the support columns are about an inch in diameter, I'm probably going to be limited to 50" (43.58").  I'm still open to a 55" screen though since I don't see an inch on either side being really critical.

I like the idea of full LED backlighting but won't consider anything with edge lighting unless there are reviews from reputable sources that indicate the problems with this mode of lighting have been overcome.  I'm not too concerned with the cost - within reason.  I think I paid $3500 for the Sony with the warranty and I wouldn't balk at a similar expenditure now if I know it will be worth it.

Thanks in advance.


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## BumbleBee (Nov 7, 2011)

if you don't give a budget people are just going to recommend the Sharp Elite PRO-60X5FD  any of the 3 Plasmas listed in that table is a winner.


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## twilyth (Nov 7, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> if you don't give a budget people are just going to recommend the Sharp Elite PRO-60X5FD  any of the 3 Plasmas listed in that table is a winner.



Yeah, but plasmas are no good for 24/7 use.  They don't have the same burn in issues of yesteryear but they still progressively lose brightness.  So all plasma displays are out.  Same goes for projectors since I have no place to put a screen such that it can be easily repositioned.


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## cheesy999 (Nov 7, 2011)

twilyth said:


> Yeah, but plasmas are no good for 24/7 use. They don't have the same burn in issues of yesteryear but they still progressively lose brightness. So all plasma displays are out. Same goes for projectors since I have no place to put a screen such that it can be easily repositioned.



You do realise that like all florescent tubes the back-light on an LCD TV will also slowly lose brightness (phosper in an average Florescent tube lasts 25,000 hours till half output), The ones's in TV's may last a bit longer but it's still going to happen eventually

Modern Plasma's have a very long life compared to old one's



> 100,000 hours of actual display time, or 27 years at 10 hours per day





BumbleBee said:


> both LCD and Plasma are rated for 100,000 hours. if you were to leave either on 24 hours a day it would last 10 years.
> 
> Plasmas start progressively losing their brightness after 30,000 hours so if you were to leave it on 8 hours a day that is still 9 years.
> 
> ...



Backlights on all of the current TV's degrade over time and since TV Development is driven by competition they mostly age the same

If you want a TV that will last over a long period of time, the best thing to look for is a high brightness level, as the way to counter Fade is to

On LCD's : Most higher end LCD's will let you change the intensity of the backlight in the menu (What it is labeled as depends on the brand, most modern Sony LCD's have a slider in the picture settings which will adjust the backlight brightness (Assuming you want to stick to the same brand))

On Plasma: The brightness setting on Most Plasma's direct effects the light the Phospers produce so it's just a case of turning the brightness up

EDIT:And now he deleted his post and i have what looks like a double post


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## BumbleBee (Nov 7, 2011)

I messed up on the math and deleted post. I don't want to defend Plasma anymore.


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## cheesy999 (Nov 7, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> I messed up on the math and deleted post. I don't want to defend Plasma anymore.



No problem, to be fair an LED LCD would have the highest life but you have the problem of having to replace the entire TV if one LED breaks

if it's going to be on 24/7 an LED backlight could save you a lot of money though so it might be a good idea

On the whole if your going to be using it for a long period of time i would think that the warranty period offered is a better indication of quality now then type and brand


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## BumbleBee (Nov 7, 2011)

who is going to keep a television for that long.



> Back to our comparison, and the difference seems very large after calibration: 285.63 watts for plasma vs. 61.39 watts for LED-LCD. When the cost difference is calculated, based on US energy charges of around 11.5c kw/Hr and a usage pattern of 5.2 hours per day, it equates to $62.71 per year for the plasma vs. $13.66 per year for the LED-LCD. Over 5 years it would cost roughly $314 to run the plasma, while the LED-LCD would cost $68; an advantage of $246 to LED-LCD. So despite the improvements, there's still no contest in terms of power efficiency: plasma is notably more costly to run than an equivalent LED-LCD. However when we examine total cost of ownership, the figures reverse. The plasma in our example retails for around $2,125, while the LED-LCD retails for $2,839. Add in the power usage costs and the total cost over 5 years is: plasma $2,439, LED-LCD $2,907; an advantage of $468 to plasma over the 5 year period. Even over a 10 year period the plasma will still be ahead by $291.


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## cheesy999 (Nov 7, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> who is going to keep a television for that long.



in the first post he says it's normally on 24/7 and he's owned it for over 5 years now, seeing as he's only replacing it because it's started to break i think he could see a lot of money by using an LED TV vs a normal LCD or Plasma TV


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## BumbleBee (Nov 7, 2011)

5 years is long enough for a home theater television. people don't even use RPTV for man caves anymore lol


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## twilyth (Nov 8, 2011)

cheesy999 said:


> You do realise that like all florescent tubes the back-light on an LCD TV will also slowly lose brightness (phosper in an average Florescent tube lasts 25,000 hours till half output), The ones's in TV's may last a bit longer but it's still going to happen eventually
> 
> Modern Plasma's have a very long life compared to old one's
> 
> ...


I honestly don't like the idea of having to turn back the brightness just so I can increase it later.  That really doesn't make any sense to me.  And i like a bright picture.  Unless I need shades to watch at full brightness, that's going to be an issue for me.  Edit - At least there is a chance it could be an issue.  I won't really know until I have to live with it.


cheesy999 said:


> No problem, to be fair an LED LCD would have the highest life *but you have the problem of having to replace the entire TV if one LED breaks*
> 
> if it's going to be on 24/7 an LED backlight could save you a lot of money though so it might be a good idea
> 
> On the whole if your going to be using it for a long period of time i would think that the warranty period offered is a better indication of quality now then type and brand


That's a good point, but I hope the mfrs consider that when they make them or they're going to bankrupt themselves.  I think the sony warranty was for 2 years.  I upgraded that to 5 and I'll probably do the same this time unless I go for something under $1500.  Then I'll probably sell it after a couple of years.

Another thing I just realized is that a lot of tv's now seem to have inactivity timers.  The small Bravia I got for my office is like that.  You can disable it, but it's on by default.  So if that is a feature, I could go with fluorescent backlight and never really need to worry - all while saving myself the expense of a full LED version.  Win-win - thanks dude. 


BumbleBee said:


> who is going to keep a television for that long.





BumbleBee said:


> 5 years is long enough for a home theater television. people don't even use RPTV for man caves anymore lol


The thing with RP is that the picture never changes.  Yes, it starts to get a little dull as the lamp ages, but it blows not long after that so you basically have a consistent, predictable output.

Regarding your opinion of rptv's, you really can't say that unless you've seen an SXRD model in a properly lit room.  I'm quite happy with it still - even having seen the ones in the big box stores and even considering you need sunscreen if plan to stand in front of the display models for very long.


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## BumbleBee (Nov 8, 2011)

I wasn't born yesterday. I did own a rear projection television. you should be changing out the television in your home theater every couple years. it's not a living room or bedroom. I wouldn't invest too much right now. OLED televisions are a couple years away, Toshiba is working on 3D without glasses, some televisions have a 21:9 aspect ratio, etc.


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## Frederik S (Nov 8, 2011)

The questions is how much brightness do you need? Is the TV going to be used in a room with direct sunlight?

Burn in is very much dependant upon settings and panel. I have played a 24 hour GT5 race without any signs of burn in, but that of course not at maximum brightness. And this was on a 2 year old Panasonic G10 42". 

The color/black quality of LCDs is something that I would gladly pay $300 for over a 5 year period. 

The SHARP LCDs are usually good and budget friendly. Got a friend with a 52" that looks good for a LCD TV after playing around with the settings (default = horrible everything).


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## twilyth (Nov 8, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> I wasn't born yesterday. I did own a rear projection television. you should be changing out the television in your home theater every couple years. it's not a living room or bedroom. I wouldn't invest too much right now. OLED televisions are a couple years away, Toshiba is working on 3D without glasses, some televisions have a 21:9 aspect ratio, etc.


Well, you made a blanket statement about rptv's, so that's what I responded to.  The SXRD's really are, or at least, _were_ exceptional - read the reviews from when they debuted. 

Why exactly do I need a new tv every couple of years?  I buy new PC hardware 2-4 times per year, but that's because of my crunching hobby.  I don't care if I have the latest and greatest in terms of a display as long as it's good at what it does.  IOW, it's not e-peen territory for me.


Frederik S said:


> The questions is how much brightness do you need? Is the TV going to be used in a room with direct sunlight?
> 
> Burn in is very much dependant upon settings and panel. I have played a 24 hour GT5 race without any signs of burn in, but that of course not at maximum brightness. And this was on a 2 year old Panasonic G10 42".
> 
> ...


The room is basically a cave.  There is one window with a room darkening shade.  However I do keep it pretty well lit.  It's not brightly lit like a dept store but brighter than a cozy restaurant.  What I would consider "normal" ambient, home lighting.

I've heard good things about Sharp, Samsung and, I think, LG.  Not so good things about Panasonic and Sony.


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## Frederik S (Nov 8, 2011)

Panasonics plasmas are good, their LCD displays are alright but slightly overpriced compared to brands that only do LCDs. 

Since it is a cave you should definitely visit a hifi store or some place where you can see a plasma and a LCD side by side under the conditions you will be using it. Preferrably with an ordinary display setting and not those "Shop Display"-modes where all the colors are over saturated.


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## twilyth (Nov 8, 2011)

Frederik S said:


> Panasonics plasmas are good, their LCD displays are alright but slightly overpriced compared to brands that only do LCDs.
> 
> Since it is a cave you should definitely visit a hifi store or some place where you can see a plasma and a LCD side by side under the conditions you will be using it. Preferrably with an ordinary display setting and not those "Shop Display"-modes where all the colors are over saturated.



My concern with plasmas was the fading you get with age.  But apparently, you have the same issue with fluorescent backlighting too.  that's why initially I was going to look for full LED lighting.  But then it occurred to me that if a set has an inactivity monitor, degradation wouldn't be a problem for me since while the tv is on all of the time, I only watch it a fraction of the time.  So even though I was using this as a consideration in favor of LCD's with fluorescent lighting, I would imagine the same logic should apply to plasmas.


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## BumbleBee (Nov 8, 2011)

CCFL can fade and color shift. yellow and blue LED color shift. RGB LED have neither problem.

Sony 55" HX929 uses RGB LED in Full Array but it has some problems such as viewing angle, crosstalk, blue tinge, minor blooming, mediocre input lag and the price tag is $2900.


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## twilyth (Nov 8, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> CCFL can fade and color shift. yellow and blue LED color shift. RGB LED have neither problem.
> 
> Sony 55" HX929 uses RGB LED in Full Array but it has some problems such as viewing angle, crosstalk, blue tinge, minor blooming, mediocre input lag and the price tag is $2900.


That's actually the model I was looking at last year, but at that point I think it was the 909.  I could be wrong though, my memory sucks sometimes.

How old is that information?  Maybe they have resolved those issues with the newer models - or are they intrinsic to the design?


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## BumbleBee (Nov 8, 2011)

HX909 was the 2010 model. my information is about 4 months old. I don't think they fixed any of it but I could be wrong.


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 8, 2011)

Currently I use a old AWIA 200W stereo system for my surround sound setup. It sounds very well but always wondered about a full blown HT setup!


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## H82LUZ73 (Nov 8, 2011)

twilyth said:


> Well, you made a blanket statement about rptv's, so that's what I responded to.  The SXRD's really are, or at least, _were_ exceptional - read the reviews from when they debuted.
> 
> Why exactly do I need a new tv every couple of years?  I buy new PC hardware 2-4 times per year, but that's because of my crunching hobby.  I don't care if I have the latest and greatest in terms of a display as long as it's good at what it does.  IOW, it's not e-peen territory for me.
> 
> ...



Stick with Sharp or Samsung,I have a Samsung and it has some nice features,Auto shut off timer and it shuts my Onkyo A/V receiver off to.The Sharp one LED have the yellow color and they look just as good as the Samsung's,LG were good but the last 2 years they got a bad rep with the second gen led sets.It is crap shoot with LG .Panny and Sony I read more bad reviews of them then any other company.http://www.avforums.com/forums/index.php go to the TVs link and just read up on what real customers say about their purchases


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## kath_diz (Nov 14, 2011)

and plasma's are very high on electricity consumption..no good.


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## twilyth (Nov 14, 2011)

Thanks for all of the good info y'all.  It's much appreciated.  I tend not to do a tremendous amount of research before hand and therefore tend to be partial to certain brands.  Samsung and Sharp will be at the top of my list.  However I've also heard good things about Vizio.  Well, mixed reviews to some extent but I get the impression they've improved in recent years and they are always hitting the lowest price points.

Since I have an HTPC, I don't give a crap about apps or connectivity or whatever the fuck snake oil they're peddling to get people to spring for a new tv.  I just want a solid unit with good long term reliability.  I will happily trade any number of bells and whistles for that.

Update:  There seem to be new areas of discoloration.  It may have been there before and I didn't notice since I was focused on the first one I saw.  There now seems to be an area in the far upper left, but both are still only visible with a pale blue background.

I've been wanting to get a smaller unit to put in another room but felt that would be extravagant since it would be to use with Xbox Kinect games and I'm not really a gamer.  But I need a change of pace from the treadmill.  So now i'm thinking if I can get a 42" for around $400, maybe I should go for it.  It would give me the chance to sample something like a Vizio and see if I want to make one of their models my main display.  IDK.  I'm just spitballing.


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## H82LUZ73 (Nov 14, 2011)

twilyth said:


> Thanks for all of the good info y'all.  It's much appreciated.  I tend not to do a tremendous amount of research before hand and therefore tend to be partial to certain brands.  Samsung and Sharp will be at the top of my list.  However I've also heard good things about Vizio.  Well, mixed reviews to some extent but I get the impression they've improved in recent years and they are always hitting the lowest price points.
> 
> Since I have an HTPC, I don't give a crap about apps or connectivity or whatever the fuck snake oil they're peddling to get people to spring for a new tv.  I just want a solid unit with good long term reliability.  I will happily trade any number of bells and whistles for that.
> 
> ...



Vizio same as LG kinda of a crap shoot,Depends on what internals they used,back about a year and half ago they were using Samsung parts,But last i heard they Use LG now.....Actually Magnavox is one you could look into.


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## caleb (Nov 14, 2011)

UE55D7000. 
The first Samsung with FHD3D. Screen rox and the media features make it stand out.


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## de.das.dude (Nov 14, 2011)

twilyth said:


> I think I paid $3500



you sure you want a TV? you can buy a new car (tata nano) with that kinda money


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## BumbleBee (Nov 14, 2011)

I have the perfect solution to your problem. why don't you buy a Panasonic 50" ST30 Plasma television ($900) and a Panasonic 32" DT30 LED television ($800). you can use one to watch movies and the other as a monitor.


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## twicksisted (Nov 14, 2011)

I have a 40" samsung LCD telly that was great till I got an HD projector! 
Now the telly just looks tiny and I havent used it since... just cant compare to watching TV, movies and game on a 150" projected screen


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## twilyth (Nov 19, 2011)

Update:  well, the egg had a good price on this Vizio.  It's 42", 120hz and edge lit.  It seems to be a competent unit and should be perfect for the livingroom (which is basically a huge hallway).  Plus, if the Sony goes belly up, I can use it as a temp replacement.  I should get it Monday, so we'll see how it goes.


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## BumbleBee (Nov 19, 2011)

flashlighting..


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## Wile E (Nov 19, 2011)

Unless somebody manages to fix the miage quality issues on the 120/240hz LCDs, my next TV will be plasma. The 120/240Hz LCD TVs make everything look like ass. I don't understand how the technology can make movies look like they were shot with daytime soap cameras.


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## Easy Rhino (Nov 19, 2011)

Wile E said:


> Unless somebody manages to fix the miage quality issues on the 120/240hz LCDs, my next TV will be plasma. The 120/240Hz LCD TVs make everything look like ass. I don't understand how the technology can make movies look like they were shot with daytime soap cameras.



yea know, you get used to it actually. and the better screens have options where you can adjust the motion crap. anyway, go plasma unless you find a great deal on a 240hz LCD that has those options.


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## twilyth (Nov 19, 2011)

I'm not very picky.  After all, I'm still happy with my KDS-50A2000. 

But I appreciate the attempts to bum me out. :shadedshu


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## Wile E (Nov 19, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> *yea know, you get used to it actually. *and the better screens have options where you can adjust the motion crap. anyway, go plasma unless you find a great deal on a 240hz LCD that has those options.



No, no I don't. I hate it every time I see it.


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## BumbleBee (Nov 19, 2011)

me too. I'm trying to help not hurt your feelings.


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## twilyth (Nov 19, 2011)

It's not likely you would hurt my feelings.  You missed the point.


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## BumbleBee (Nov 19, 2011)

it's a learning experience.. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did


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## twilyth (Nov 19, 2011)

I do love to learn, but A/V is definitely not one of my priorities.


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## Wile E (Nov 19, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> it's a learning experience.. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did



I think he is saying that he isn't all that picky about the image quality. SO long as it's "good enough", he's happy.


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