# Any Point in Getting a Non-Stock Cooler?



## avrona (Mar 21, 2019)

So I'm planning on upgrading to a 3600x when it comes out, but I want it to be a really budget update as possible, skipping over a lot of things like a new PSU as my current one doesn't even officially support 2 8 pin cards like the one I have in my PC right now but oh well. I've seen many people recently buying additional coolers for their PC's, either extra air coolers or AIO coolers, so will there be any point in me getting a non-stock cooler with my upgrade? Even with my current CPU I don't have any temp issues with an extremely basic cooling solution and that thing is infamous for running extremely hot.


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## sneekypeet (Mar 21, 2019)

If you do not plan to add voltage to the CPU or overclock it, the stock solution will get you by.


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## Mats (Mar 21, 2019)

Also, depending on final specs and price, a 3600 (non-*X*) version might be a way to cut cost.


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## INSTG8R (Mar 21, 2019)

A!MDs stock coolers are actually  decent not like that cheap aluminum slug with a fan Intel uses for stock.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Mar 21, 2019)

sneekypeet said:


> If you do not plan to add voltage to the CPU or overclock it, the stock solution will get you by.


while true it does however limit performance at full load sometimes,because XFR and PBO on Ryzen works really well to clock up your cpu when possible, now if you don't use all your processing power and truly never hit top thermal point fair enough and either way your not risking it per say.
I run mine at full load all day, with a stock cooler and default PBO settings it would run along nicely at 3.6-3.8 but adequately cooled it sits at 4Ghz all core 100% 24/7.

so it depends a lot on your use cases and what you want from it too, to me though getting a 12core chip is probably overkill if you don't also need to cool it more then stock in your use cases anyway, because that's a lot of chip and money to not make the most of it imho.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 21, 2019)

INSTG8R said:


> A!MDs stock coolers are actually  decent not like that cheap aluminum slug with a fan Intel uses for stock.



The only cooler that is decent is the Wraith Prism, the others are just cheap aluminum slugs like Intel.  Well, technically the Wraith Spire that comes with the 2600X has a copper slug in the middle, but so do some Intel coolers...so meh...still not that great of a cooler, but adequate if you don't overclock(just like Intel's).

Though, me personally, if the CPU didn't come with the Wraith Prism, I'd spend the ~$25 on one of the decent inexpensive 120mm tower coolers.


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## avrona (Mar 21, 2019)

sneekypeet said:


> If you do not plan to add voltage to the CPU or overclock it, the stock solution will get you by.


No I'm not planning on overclocking it. I doubt I have enough headroom with my PSU and my graphics card is really what is providing the great performance in my system, both now and even after the upgrade.


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## vega22 (Mar 23, 2019)

Less noise, improved performance from xfr and looking better are about all I can think of.


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## mstenholm (Mar 23, 2019)

So you already know that the 3600x comes with a stock cooler? How good is that? How hot does the 3600x run? As mentioned above several places - if you want the maximum out off your new AMD you need good cooling. If the new cooler is anything like the Wraith Spire then do you self a favor and buy a less noisy one. Better yet. Wait until somebody get a hand on this new CPU and test it. Then and only then you can have qualified answers from this forum.


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## silentbogo (Mar 23, 2019)

avrona said:


> So I'm planning on upgrading to a 3600x when it comes out, but I want it to be a really budget update as possible, skipping over a lot of things like a new PSU as my current one doesn't even officially support 2 8 pin cards like the one I have in my PC right now but oh well. I've seen many people recently buying additional coolers for their PC's, either extra air coolers or AIO coolers, so will there be any point in me getting a non-stock cooler with my upgrade? Even with my current CPU I don't have any temp issues with an extremely basic cooling solution and that thing is infamous for running extremely hot.


I can think of one helluva ghetto-workaround for your cooling problem: If you have your stock Wraith from FX-8350, you can stick it onto sAM4. The only 2 issues are: AMD mounting brackets suck(especially on new boards), and it's loud. It might be a tight fit, but it's worth a try. I'm using an old-ass Arctic Alpine64 for testing pretty much anything AMD-related in my workshop.


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## avrona (Mar 23, 2019)

vega22 said:


> Less noise, improved performance from xfr and looking better are about all I can think of.


What's XFR? Also I don't really care about looks seeing how you can't even see inside my case.


silentbogo said:


> I can think of one helluva ghetto-workaround for your cooling problem: If you have your stock Wraith from FX-8350, you can stick it onto sAM4. The only 2 issues are: AMD mounting brackets suck(especially on new boards), and it's loud. It might be a tight fit, but it's worth a try. I'm using an old-ass Arctic Alpine64 for testing pretty much anything AMD-related in my workshop.


No I don't have my old cooler, but aren't the fx coolers worse than the stock Ryzen ones anyway?


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## vega22 (Mar 23, 2019)

It's like the boost amd use. The cooler the chip the higher the boost. 

Auto overclocking in essence.


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## avrona (Mar 23, 2019)

vega22 said:


> It's like the boost amd use. The cooler the chip the higher the boost.
> 
> Auto overclocking in essence.


Well I don't really need to overclock though as at least I have a good GPU to really push my system in games, besides I doubt my PSU would even have enough headroom to make the CPU run any faster.


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## cucker tarlson (Mar 23, 2019)

how are we supposed to know how a cooler that isn't out yet will perform on a cpu that we have no information about ?
if it's bundled with a cpu then it means it'll keep it working.
stock amd coolers aren't bad and ryzens are cool in regular use,most of things you throw at them spread across all those cores and threads keeping the usage relatively low and the package cool.


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## vega22 (Mar 23, 2019)

It will use much less than your current CPU dude, like nearly half as much.


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## hat (Mar 23, 2019)

Pretty much what they said.

You get better cooling performance, which means turbo functions will work better. Also, CPU coolers generally last forever (at least air coolers). I bet I could still use my TT Big Typhoon if I bought a Ryzen system... nearly 15 years later. So, if you buy a good cooler _now_, you can use it again when you eventually upgrade from the parts you're looking at right now.


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## Deleted member 67555 (Mar 23, 2019)

I haven't had an AMD stock cooler I didn't like yet.
I liked my heatpiped Black editions, slugs for the cheapy cpu's and I like the spire series because they cool the vrm's in shitty cases.


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## silentbogo (Mar 23, 2019)

avrona said:


> No I don't have my old cooler, but aren't the fx coolers worse than the stock Ryzen ones anyway?


Worse than Wraith max, but better than Spire or stealth. If AMD follows the suit, 3600x will get Spire (Aluminium brick with copper insert)


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## robot zombie (Mar 23, 2019)

Hard to say... I can tell you currently that pretty much any Ryzen will run fine at stock with the paired cooler. Not to their best, but absolutely as advertised and IME at reasonable noise levels. Even under heavier-than-gaming loads. Most people (I think) will say the same. Bear in mind that while yes, the lower end models get your basic urinal-cake style coolers, they really don't require much more. These are pretty low-TDP chips, especially under normal usage scenarios. For instance, my 2600 OC'd to 4ghz isn't pushing much more than 60W max on current titles... and it's averaging more in the 40's. With a Dark Rock 4 on top, a midrange, mid-tower cooler, it's a rare day when CPU temps pass 55C. That cooler is expensive. But I also have an inexpensive Sythe Mugen Max that cools just as well, if not better at times. And this is in an NZXT S340 Elite, a compact ATX with somewhat modest airflow. I'm betting Zen 2 will be even more efficient due to node shrink, so it's hard to imagine the stock coolers not keeping up for anyone not concerned with overclocking or very heavy, non-gaming usage. Though even if you're planning to really put the chip to work, at most you'll have more noise. Temperatures will likely be manageable.

Speculation based on what we've seen with Ryzen so far. Zen 2 is quite the overhaul, so anything goes. Grain of salt.


Okay, so, here's my real take on the stock coolers. They are great when you're starting off on a build and maybe your full budget hasn't manifested yet. But the value of having those coolers available from the jump is not THAT high. To put it into perspective, for around $40, there are a multitude of AM4 coolers out there which will offer you near-silent operation under all but the heaviest loads and a max overclock (or boost for the x models.) Not a lot of money for what you gain in return. Even a Hyper 212 would serve you better in most cases. Ryzen is pretty easy to cool. Good air coolers can be had cheap. It's just such a trivial upgrade, you know? And a good aftermarket cooler, much like a good PSU (wink) will persist across builds and part swaps.

I'm recalling a time when people used to be angry about stock coolers being included with certain CPU's simply because they were basically destined to be swapped out in order to tap into the full power of the chip, thus only adding to the cost unnecessarily.

That's me though. If something significantly better is just a little more money in the big pot, I think I'd be a fool not to grab it and risk being left wanting later. You want the X model. The stock cooler is probably okay, but the main selling point of the X models is their ability to boost higher automatically with better cooling. If you're not going to capitalize on it, you would lose very little going vanilla instead. A major upgrade is only as good as the platform it stands on. For a little more money it can shine much more.

Basically, if you're asking if the stock cooler will be suitable, the answer is probably going to be "yes." But whether or not you're truly getting your money's worth sticking only with that is debatable.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 23, 2019)

sneekypeet said:


> If you do not plan to add voltage to the CPU or overclock it, the stock solution will get you by.


While is true, it should be noted that a quality heatsink will provide for better cooling and less noise over the long run.


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## avrona (Mar 23, 2019)

robot zombie said:


> Hard to say... I can tell you currently that pretty much any Ryzen will run fine at stock with the paired cooler. Not to their best, but absolutely as advertised and IME at reasonable noise levels. Even under heavier-than-gaming loads. Most people (I think) will say the same. Bear in mind that while yes, the lower end models get your basic urinal-cake style coolers, they really don't require much more. These are pretty low-TDP chips, especially under normal usage scenarios. For instance, my 2600 OC'd to 4ghz isn't pushing much more than 60W max on current titles... and it's averaging more in the 40's. With a Dark Rock Pro 4 on top, a midrange, mid-tower cooler, it's a rare day when CPU temps pass 55C. That cooler is expensive. But I also have an inexpensive Sythe Mugen Max that cools just as well, if not better at times. And this is in an NZXT S340 Elite, a compact ATX with somewhat modest airflow. I'm betting Zen 2 will be even more efficient due to node shrink, so it's hard to imagine the stock coolers not keeping up for anyone not concerned with overclocking or very heavy, non-gaming usage. Though even if you're planning to really put the chip to work, at most you'll have more noise. Temperatures will likely be manageable.
> 
> Speculation based on what we've seen with Ryzen so far. Zen 2 is quite the overhaul, so anything goes. Grain of salt.
> 
> ...


Seeing how much this upgrade is gonna cost me already I don't really care if I'm not fully getting my money's worth getting a cooler will mean several more weeks of waiting for the upgrade. Even with my current combo (an fx-8350 and a 1080 ti) I am reaching a stable FPS of 60 in all games I play apart from 1 (with v-sync), so if I can't really milk it for everything it's worth it's no big deal. My current setup has a very basic cooler and is not overclocked at all, so with a zen2 Ryzen there should be no issues whatsoever. Pretty much the only task I'm having issues with right now is recording, but that appears to be less about the fx's speed or anything like that, but rather that it's still using PCIe 2.0 and not 3.0. Plus having 2 case fans should be also providing enough airflow right?


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## sneekypeet (Mar 23, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> While is true, it should be noted that a quality heatsink will provide for better cooling and less noise over the long run.



Cannot argue that. I was stating it's fine due to the fact it will run as intended. Of course a better cooler can do more for the CPU boost, noise, and temps. Judging by the way the OP was trying to save so many parts,  and asking if it would work, I assumed a tight budget. Without saying it, my point was it will work, and if the need arises it could be swapped when money was less of a concern (if needed).


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## avrona (Mar 23, 2019)

sneekypeet said:


> Cannot argue that. I was stating it's fine due to the fact it will run as intended. Of course a better cooler can do more for the CPU boost, noise, and temps. Judging by the way the OP was trying to save so many parts,  and asking if it would work, I assumed a tight budget. Without saying it, my point was it will work, and if the need arises it could be swapped when money was less of a concern (if needed).


Does having lower temps on its own mean a lot though? Like does it affect much?


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## sneekypeet (Mar 23, 2019)

avrona said:


> Does having lower temps on its own mean a lot though? Like does it affect much?



I do not use AMD CPUs, but if the boost on it works like Nvidia GPUs, then quite possibly yes. The cooler you keep the chip, the faster the boost can run. I am sure those with more knowledge on the AMD side will either back this statement or tell me I am full of it


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## biffzinker (Mar 23, 2019)

newtekie1 said:


> Well, technically the Wraith Spire that comes with the 2600X has a copper slug in the middle


That copper slug is actually a vapor chamber, the fan on top hides the filling end.


vega22 said:


> It's like the boost amd use. The cooler the chip the higher the boost.
> 
> Auto overclocking in essence.


XFR is the same as Intel's Turbo Boost but PBO is the one that overclocks above XFR. As long as the CPU temperatures and motherboard power consumption/temperatures are within the AMD default limits but PBO is adjustable in the mobo's firmware.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 23, 2019)

avrona said:


> Does having lower temps on its own mean a lot though? Like does it affect much?


It can, especially if dust accumulates in/on the heatsink, which will happen. Whereas a quality aftermarket heatsink will minimize that possibility. For example, the following is one of the models I use for building Ryzen systems;
https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-RR-T4-18PK-R1-Contact-Heatpipes/dp/B00BSKY1M4
Performance is solid, dust doesn't easily build up, it is very quiet and it's only $30.

Deepcool also has a good performer for $22, but comes with a blue led fan(easily replaced if you have a spare 120mm fan);
https://www.amazon.com/DEEPCOOL-GAMMAXX-400-Blue-Compatible/dp/B00JQ2YDCY


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## biffzinker (Mar 23, 2019)

sneekypeet said:


> I do not use AMD CPUs, but if the boost on it works like Nvidia GPUs, then quite possibly yes. The cooler you keep the chip, the faster the boost can run.


The stock cooler works fine with XFR/PBO trying to keep the clocks up as high as it will go but the stock cooler also causes it to throttle clockspeed back more the heavier the load gets. I played around with swapping back to the Spire just with stock clocks XFR/PBO enabled and it works fine but temperatures are much higher and the clockspeeds were pushed down lower with the Spire. I went back to the Scythe Kotetsu.


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## overvolted (Mar 23, 2019)

Nowadays, there's really no reason not to buy a simple AIO water cooler.
Eventually you're going to want to turn things up a bit and you'll have all the headroom you could want with one.
One of my ryzen 7 1700x machines has a 50 dollar coolermaster single 120 rad AIO cooler in the rear exhaust position and it's made all the difference.

I honestly cant see myself every buying an air cooler again. 

If you stay at stock clock, yeah you'll be fine. But you're not going to stay there. Trust me man.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 23, 2019)

sneekypeet said:


> The cooler you keep the chip, the faster the boost can run.


To a point, this is correct. Ryzen CPU's will only boost to their maximum if they are under their thermal limit.



overvolted said:


> Nowadays, there's really no reason not to buy a simple AIO water cooler.


Price. Not everyone can or want to afford AIO watercooling. A solid air cooler can be had for 1/3 the cost of an AIO.


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## Mats (Mar 23, 2019)

Stick with the included cooler, and if you're not happy with it then get a better one later on.
You can't go wrong with that.


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## biffzinker (Mar 23, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ryzen CPU's will only boost to their maximum if they are under their thermal limit.


Theirs also a power limit for the motherboard's VRM.

Edit: The copper bottom of the Spire heatsink had some dents/scratches in the otherwise flat bottom before being boxed. The stock TIM was hiding the dents from a assembly line of coolers bumping each other?


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## overvolted (Mar 23, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> To a point, this is correct. Ryzen CPU's will only boost to their maximum if they are under their thermal limit.
> 
> 
> Price. Not everyone can or want to afford AIO watercooling. A solid air cooler can be had for 1/3 the cost of an AIO.



50 bucks?


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## Vario (Mar 23, 2019)

Might as well run an aftermarket cooler, then your turbo performance will be better.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 23, 2019)

overvolted said:


> 50 bucks?


The best price I've seen for a *quality* AIO is $85. If you've seen better, got a link?


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## overvolted (Mar 23, 2019)

Excuse me, 59 bucks. LOL I must have got mine on sale or something.

This is a solid little unit. And most decent air coolers cost more than that.
Of course you don't have to buy it right away. But no air cooler is going to touch it.
And it's worth every penny.

I own this one, and the really nice triple version as well. Very Nice units. They also look really nice too, as a bonus.



lexluthermiester said:


> The best price I've seen for a *quality* AIO is $85. If you've seen better, got a link?



https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=2YM-0004-00014


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## avrona (Mar 23, 2019)

Vario said:


> Might as well run an aftermarket cooler, then your turbo performance will be better.


If that's the only thing it affects though it won't really be worth it in my case then.



overvolted said:


> Excuse me, 59 bucks. LOL I must have got mine on sale or something.
> 
> This is a solid little unit. And most decent air coolers cost more than that.
> Of course you don't have to buy it right away. But no air cooler is going to touch it.
> ...


But will that or any other non-stock cooler really offer me anything worth that extra price, because for me any upgrade to my PC is expensive. And looks are like at the bottom of my priorities anyway seeing how you can't even see inside my case as it doesn't have a glass panel or anything.


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## mstenholm (Mar 23, 2019)

avrona said:


> What's XFR?


That has been answered but that leads to the next question - you are avare that you need new MB and RAM as well?


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 23, 2019)

overvolted said:


> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=2YM-0004-00014


Nice, hadn't seen that. Gonna have to give it a try.


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## overvolted (Mar 23, 2019)

avrona said:


> If that's the only thing it affects though it won't really be worth it in my case then.
> 
> 
> But will that or any other non-stock cooler really offer me anything worth that extra price, because for me any upgrade to my PC is expensive. And looks are like at the bottom of my priorities anyway seeing how you can't even see inside my case as it doesn't have a glass panel or anything.



Like I've stated, you're going to want to turn up the speed eventually.
And if you do, that's going to make it super easy without the processor getting too hot.



lexluthermiester said:


> Nice, hadn't seen that. Gonna have to give it a try.



Go for it! 
Most of my earlier systems cost me a TON to water cool since they were all separate parts.
These AIO units are excellent. And most of them are all made under the same roof. Only difference in price is dictated by the logo on the front and "trim level".
But from a function standpoint, they're all the same thing. They vary very little in performance.

Haven't had any problem with either of mine.


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## avrona (Mar 23, 2019)

mstenholm said:


> That has been answered but that leads to the next question - you are avare that you need new MB and RAM as well?


Yes I do, which will make this upgrade even more costly meaning I only want to buy necessary additions.


overvolted said:


> Like I've stated, you're going to want to turn up the speed eventually.
> And if you do, that's going to make it super easy without the processor getting too hot.


But that means I won't need it then for the first few years then right?


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## Vario (Mar 23, 2019)

XFR automatically overclocks the processor similar to turbo.  The cooler the processor, the higher the boost it runs at.


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## biffzinker (Mar 23, 2019)

Vario said:


> XFR automatically overclocks the processor similar to turbo. The cooler the processor, the higher the boost it runs at.


That would be Precision Boost Overdrive, XFR has a hard limit that it's not allowed to exceed. XFR tries to keep the clockspeed up as high it will go depending on the multi-core load. PBO goes above the XFR limit aka overclocks.

Edit: My MSI B350 mobo got PBO with a later BIOS update otherwise it only had XFR from the first Zen core not PBO that came with Zen+.


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## Vario (Mar 23, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> That would be Precision Boost Overdrive, XFR has a hard limit that it's not allowed to exceed. XFR tries to keep the clockspeed up as high it will go depending on the multi-core load. PBO goes above the XFR limit aka overclocks.
> 
> Edit: My MSI B350 mobo got PBO with a later BIOS update otherwise it only had XFR from the first Zen core not PBO that came with Zen+.


Thanks for the clarification.   Well, what I mean to say is if his Ryzen is properly cooled it will stay at a higher speed.


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## oxrufiioxo (Mar 23, 2019)

Hard to answer this question given that Ryzen 3000 will likely have a much higher thermal density than Ryzen 2000. The stock cooler that comes with the ryzen 2600 is pretty bad imo even a CM 212 is superior.  
Here it is on a 1600 vs the CM 212





But who knows AMD may include better coolers with the 3000 series.


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## Vario (Mar 24, 2019)

Good cooler is an investment, you can take it into multiple platforms down the road.


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## EarthDog (Mar 24, 2019)

Vario said:


> XFR automatically overclocks the processor similar to turbo.  The cooler the processor, the higher the boost it runs at.


What is the difference in clocks? 2-300 mhz?


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## biffzinker (Mar 24, 2019)

Vario said:


> Good cooler is an investment, you can take it into multiple platforms down the road.


That's why I still have the Scythe Kotetsu, just needed the AM4 mounting hardware from Scythe.


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## hat (Mar 24, 2019)

avrona said:


> Seeing how much this upgrade is gonna cost me already I don't really care if I'm not fully getting my money's worth getting a cooler will mean several more weeks of waiting for the upgrade.



Several _weeks_? For a cooler?


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 24, 2019)

hat said:


> Several _weeks_? For a cooler?


They might have to wait for their next payday. It happens.


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## John Naylor (Mar 24, 2019)

Like most questions, the answer  is "It depends."

1.  You live in temperate (room temps 60 - 80 F) climate, not overclocking and decent case cooling  ... stock cooler fine.
2.  You live in temperate (room temps 60 - 80 F) climate,  moderate OC, good case cooling  ... think about a budget cooler ($30)
3.  You live in temperate (room temps 60 - 80 F) climate,  bawlz to the wall OC,  case has (1) 120mm fan for every 50 - 75 watts  ... grab a $45 Scythe Fuma, paying more won't get better cooling.
4.  You live in hot (room temps 85 - 100+ F) climate, not overclocking and decent case cooling  ... get a budget cooler
5.  You live in hot (room temps 85 - 100+ F) climate,  moderate OC, good case cooling  ... spend the $45
6.  You live in hot (room temps 85 - 100+ F) climate,  bawlz to the wall OC, good case cooling  ... I'd do something special.


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## Bones (Mar 24, 2019)

In my opinion doesn't do any harm, in fact it's just better for it since heat is the enemy of all electronics no matter how it's used. 
Removing heat is one thing, removing enough so the chip always runs fine regardless of load is another plus cooler temps helps to resist degredation of the chip over time.

The more heat you can get rid of the better and "Better than stock coolers" are one way to do it.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 24, 2019)

Stock is stock, it's meant for system integrators and OEMs due to size restraints

Don't get me wrong the WraithMax is a pretty good stock cooler but you are still limited by its size and fan size too.

Aftermarket coolers from Thermalright, Scythe, Be Quiet, Cryorig, CoolerMaster, Thermaltake all over quieter opteration and more physical material to dissipate heat into the atmosphere.


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## avrona (Mar 24, 2019)

hat said:


> Several _weeks_? For a cooler?


Yes because the upgrade is already costing me way too much as is and any other parts will still be weeks if not months away after the initial upgrade.


John Naylor said:


> Like most questions, the answer  is "It depends."
> 
> 1.  You live in temperate (room temps 60 - 80 F) climate, not overclocking and decent case cooling  ... stock cooler fine.
> 2.  You live in temperate (room temps 60 - 80 F) climate,  moderate OC, good case cooling  ... think about a budget cooler ($30)
> ...


Well I live in a temperate room in England so it's never too warm, most likely won't be overclocking, and got two case fans so I don't know if that counts as decent case cooling, they are just the fans that came with my case. So is that all fine then?


eidairaman1 said:


> Stock is stock, it's meant for system integrators and OEMs due to size restraints
> 
> Don't get me wrong the WraithMax is a pretty good stock cooler but you are still limited by its size and fan size too.
> 
> Aftermarket coolers from Thermalright, Scythe, Be Quiet, Cryorig, CoolerMaster, Thermaltake all over quieter opteration and more physical material to dissipate heat into the atmosphere.


But apart from being more quiet which I can live with are there any other real benefits for me and my particular case? Like what would dissipating more heat mean for me and would it actually be useful?


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## oxrufiioxo (Mar 24, 2019)

You're still assuming ryzen 3000 will come with a cooler period. Also nobody has any idea how hot it will be given the substantially higher thermal density. You'll be able to read reviews prior to purchase to get an idea of how thermals are and make a decision based on that, some tech sites should test a stock cooler if it has one. We also have no idea how boost will work you may get 10% more performance with a decent cooler you may get 0 with just higher temps nobody knows.


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## avrona (Mar 24, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> You're still assuming ryzen 3000 will come with a cooler period. Also nobody has any idea how hot it will be given the substantially higher thermal density. You'll be able to read reviews prior to purchase to get an idea of how thermals are and make a decision based on that, some tech sites should test a stock cooler if it has one. We also have no idea how boost will work you may get 10% more performance with a decent cooler you may get 0 with just higher temps nobody knows.


The thing is even if the stock cooler will be bad, I will still be stuck with it for weeks if not months, so if it will really be bad yes I will upgrade, but right now nothing really points to a high chance of it being bad.


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## oxrufiioxo (Mar 24, 2019)

avrona said:


> The thing is even if the stock cooler will be bad, I will still be stuck with it for weeks if not months, so if it will really be bad yes I will upgrade, but right now nothing really points to a high chance of it being bad.



If that's the case it seems like you don't really have a choice anyways. Just remember stock coolers dump all the heat in your case making other hardware run warmer. Even a $30 cooler can shave off 10c on a 1600 vs the stock cooler. That's pretty substantial to me for the cost difference. 

The other thing we have no idea about is price in the first place. The 3600 could be 250-280 at launch given that Intel will only have an overpriced 6 core 9600k to compete with it


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## avrona (Mar 24, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> If that's the case it seems like you don't really have a choice anyways. Just remember stock coolers dump all the heat in your case making other hardware run warmer. Even a $30 cooler can shave off 10c on a 1600 vs the stock cooler. That's pretty substantial to me for the cost difference.
> 
> The other thing we have no idea about is price in the first place. The 3600 could be 250-280 at launch given that Intel will only have an overpriced 6 core 9600k to compete with it


Does more heat on my other things affect things though? My 1080 Ti has already plenty of cooling solutions in it and I doubt my sound card will care too much about some more heat, especially since it's almost fully shielded by my graphics card. But again, even if the stock cooler will be bad, it will still be ages before I can upgrade, and definitely way longer if it's not a big deal, as I want to get a NVME first.

We don't know the exact price but it is looking really well so far from all the rumours and leaks, but if the prices are really high, I may just go 2700x instead or just stay with my fx-8350 for a bit longer.


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## oxrufiioxo (Mar 24, 2019)

Again nobody knows how bad or good the stock cooler will be or even if it will have one. The spire is garbage on the 2600x I can tell you that first hand.


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## avrona (Mar 24, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Again nobody knows how bad or good the stock cooler will be or even if it will have one. The spire is garbage on the 2600x I can tell you that first hand.


Even if it is garbage though will it affect my setup a lot though?


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## oxrufiioxo (Mar 24, 2019)

avrona said:


> Even if it is garbage though will it affect my setup a lot though?



A 20$ garbage deepcool gammaxx 200T outperforms the spire so who knows. Again like I've said nobody but AMD has any idea. Hopefully in 3-4 months we will know. I plan on picking up whatever the 8 core version of the 3000 series is for a second PC. I personally don't plan on using anything less than a 240mm aio. Nothing other than waiting for reviews or buying it and testing it in your own setup is gonna answer your question definitively.


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## EarthDog (Mar 24, 2019)

Come on man... you've got all the answers you need to make an educated decision. Just do it already and stop wasting peoples time asking the same question over and over (like your other threads).


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## user112 (Mar 24, 2019)

if your not overclocking and the CPU/APU isn't working on heavy loads like video encoding,3D CAD or emulation(as in N64 or newer) then you don't gain much from adding more cooling. 6 to 8 cores around 3.5GHz can run any software thats not doing one of those 3 tasks. if your not running 2080TIs in SLI or Radeon VIIs in crossfire you will never need more performance from your CPU to play native PC games.


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## Vario (Mar 24, 2019)

You can buy a Coolermaster 212 off ebay for around $10.  Used, new, doesn't really matter.  The AM4 mounting kit isn't much money if you happen to get a non AM4 one.


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## avrona (Mar 24, 2019)

user112 said:


> if your not overclocking and the CPU/APU isn't working on heavy loads like video encoding,3D CAD or emulation(as in N64 or newer) then you don't gain much from adding more cooling. 6 to 8 cores around 3.5GHz can run any software thats not doing one of those 3 tasks. if your not running 2080TIs in SLI or Radeon VIIs in crossfire you will never need more performance from your CPU to play native PC games.


I do do video encoding but I doubt I really do it at a high enough level for my CPU to be struggling, as even for my current CPU it's a breeze. Also is a single 1080 Ti enough not to require much more CPU power?


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 24, 2019)

avrona said:


> Yes because the upgrade is already costing me way too much as is and any other parts will still be weeks if not months away after the initial upgrade.
> 
> Well I live in a temperate room in England so it's never too warm, most likely won't be overclocking, and got two case fans so I don't know if that counts as decent case cooling, they are just the fans that came with my case. So is that all fine then?
> 
> But apart from being more quiet which I can live with are there any other real benefits for me and my particular case? Like what would dissipating more heat mean for me and would it actually be useful?



Overclocking and heat is dissipated quicker, not as easy to heatsoak an aftermarket cooler.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 24, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> You're still assuming ryzen 3000 will come with a cooler period.


AMD has a long track record of including heatsinks with their CPU's. You can bet real money on it.


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## hat (Mar 24, 2019)

Yeah, I think it's safe to assume they would come with coolers.


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## oxrufiioxo (Mar 24, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> AMD has a long track record of including heatsinks with their CPU's. You can bet real money on it.



I know, but we're still speculating on a product that doesn't yet exist at retail and about thermals on a 7nm CPU that AMD will try to push clocks as high as possible to compete with Intel.


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## hat (Mar 24, 2019)

That doesn't mean you're not going to be able to cool them with a normal cooler. If AMD released a bunch of CPUs that required monstrous coolers like you see on sites like this one when someone is doing heavy overclocking, well, that would be ridiculous. And Dell, HP etc would laugh and hang up on them when AMD tried to call them to make a deal for prebuilt systems, because they're not shipping a PC to Average Joe with a mack truck radiator mounted on the CPU.

I don't _know_ that the Sun is going to rise tomorrow, but I find it very likely and encourage my fellow Earthlings not to worry about the Sun disappearing any time soon.


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## HTC (Mar 24, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> AMD has a long track record of *including heatsinks* with their CPU's. You can bet real money on it.



And yet, Ryzen 1600X, 1700X and 1800X didn't come with one IIRC: only the non-X versions included the cooler.

As the saying goes: "assumption is the mother of all fvck-ups".


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## hat (Mar 24, 2019)

Hmm. I looked quickly at the 2700x on Newegg, says it comes with the Wraith Prism. Then I looked at the 1800x and 1700x, no cooler included. Still, like Intel and the K CPUs, I don't fault them for that.


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## biffzinker (Mar 24, 2019)

HTC said:


> And yet, Ryzen 1600X, 1700X and 1800X didn't come with one IIRC: only the non-X versions included the cooler.


One time event only perhaps?


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## HTC (Mar 24, 2019)

hat said:


> Hmm. *I looked quickly at the 2700x on Newegg, says it comes with the Wraith Prism.* Then I looked at the 1800x and 1700x, no cooler included. Still, like Intel and the K CPUs, I don't fault them for that.



All i'm saying is that, just because Zen + CPUs come with cooler, don't assume Zen 2 CPUs do too.



biffzinker said:


> One time event only perhaps?



Actually, a three time event only: 3 CPUs in Zen era, but it is possible.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 24, 2019)

HTC said:


> And yet, Ryzen 1600X, 1700X and 1800X didn't come with one IIRC: only the non-X versions included the cooler.


You recall incorrectly. The 1800x, 1700x and 1600x all had a boxed version with the RGB Wraith cooler. AMD always has two SKU's with their CPU's; One with a cooler and one without. This has been true since their K6 series of CPU's in the 90's. There has never been a variation from that, at least in the USA. Other regions might be different, but I doubt it.


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## oxrufiioxo (Mar 24, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> You recall incorrectly. The 1800x, 1700x and 1600x all had a boxed version with the RGB Wraith cooler. AMD always has two SKU's with their CPU's; One with a cooler and one without. This has been true since their K6 series of CPU's in the 90's. There has never been a variation from that, at least in the USA. Other regions might be different, but I doubt it.



https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Ryzen_7_1800X/2.html

The Ryzen 7 1800X and 1700X retail packages lack stock cooling solutions,

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Ryzen_5_1600X/2.html

as well as the 1600X


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## overvolted (Mar 24, 2019)

hat said:


> Yeah, I think it's safe to assume they would come with coolers.



Some of them do, some of them don't.
The 1700x I just bought for my son came with a sticker and that's it. LOL
It was marked at 150 dollars which to me was a good deal, so I just bought it.
I thought they all came with coolers, but they don't.

Fortunately I was putting a water cooler on it to begin with.


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## hat (Mar 24, 2019)

They do, X editions aside. Always gotta check the fine print (or in my case, NewEgg "Specifications" tab) to be 100% sure, about _anything_ you buy. It's not like you're playing the CPU lottery and hoping you get one with a cooler.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 24, 2019)

HTC said:


> And yet, Ryzen 1600X, 1700X and 1800X didn't come with one IIRC: only the non-X versions included the cooler.





oxrufiioxo said:


> The Ryzen 7 1800X and 1700X retail packages lack stock cooling solutions,


Looks like you were right. The "X" models apparently did not come with the option of the cooler. Thought they had that option. It's only the non-"X" of the first gen Ryzens. It's the second gen Ryzen "X" CPU's that do. I am sorry about that.


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## oxrufiioxo (Mar 24, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Looks like you were right. The "X" models apparently did not come with the option of the cooler. Thought they that option. I am sorry. It's only the non-"X" of the first gen Ryzens. It's the second gen Ryzen "X" CPU that do. I am sorry about that.



I think in some smaller countries they actually did come with coolers making this whole thing complicated lol. 

https://www.techpowerup.com/231770/...0x-and-1700x-packages-with-wraith-max-coolers. 

The cost difference though made buying your own cooler still a much better option as a 30$ cooler still outperformed it.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 25, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> I think in some smaller countries they actually did come with coolers making this whole thing complicated lol.
> 
> https://www.techpowerup.com/231770/...0x-and-1700x-packages-with-wraith-max-coolers.
> 
> The cost difference though made buying your own cooler still a much better option as a 30$ cooler still outperformed it.


Oh, ok so they did. Thought I was going crazy for a minute.

Edit; There's this as well;
https://videocardz.com/66163/amd-ryzen-7-1800x-1700x-1700-wraith-max-and-spire-coolers-confirmed
And this;
https://www.eteknix.com/amd-preparing-r7-1800x-1700x-wraith-max-coolers/


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## user112 (Mar 25, 2019)

avrona said:


> is a single 1080 Ti enough not to require much more CPU power?


current AMD R5s and intel i5s at stock speeds have no problem pushing a GPU upto around 180FPS. a 1080TI struggles to go any where near that fast in AAA games with ultra settings at 4k. by the time a single gpu exists that can do it 8k will be the new standard for monitors.


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## avrona (Mar 26, 2019)

user112 said:


> current AMD R5s and intel i5s at stock speeds have no problem pushing a GPU upto around 180FPS. a 1080TI struggles to go any where near that fast in AAA games with ultra settings at 4k. by the time a single gpu exists that can do it 8k will be the new standard for monitors.


I don't really care if I get to 180 FPS though seeing how my monitor is only a 60hz, and since I am playing at 4k it is way more demanding, I am not expecting that much anyway.


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