# How hot is your Ryzen 3700X ? Air Cooler comparision.



## Verbatim (Oct 6, 2019)

Let's compare temperatures with different AIR CPU coolers but with the same settings for more accurate comparison.

Settings

CPU Core Voltage -* Auto*
Precision Boost Overdrive - *OFF*
Power Plan - *AMD Ryzen High Performance*
Memory - *Can be Overclocked*
IntelBurnTest - Stress Level *Custom "8000"MB*, *Times to run "7"*

Test programs

IntelBurnTest
Core Temp
HWinfo64
CPU-Z

Write your specs

CPU Cooler Model Name
Case Model Name
Number of Case Fans installed and RPM at with they are spinning.


Maximum reached temperature for Noctua NH-D15 is 71C.

Noctua NH-D15, Arctic MX-4, Ryzen 3700X, MasterCase Pro 3, 4 Case Fans instaled 140mm ~ 650rpm.


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## Bill_Bright (Oct 6, 2019)

Without a consistent ambient (room) temperature, this is not a valid comparison - even if everyone has the same case and fan setup. Other variables apply too.


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## Verbatim (Oct 6, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Without a consistent ambient (room) temperature, this is not a valid comparison - even if everyone has the same case and fan setup. Other variables apply too.


I know but this is not rocket science test. Just for fun.


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## phanbuey (Oct 6, 2019)

that's not very hot at all


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## TheMadDutchDude (Oct 6, 2019)

I would have to imagine that it is at 3.6 GHz for those kinds of temps. 4.4G at 1.1v is also an incorrect reporting... xD


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## Verbatim (Oct 6, 2019)

TheMadDutchDude said:


> I would have to imagine that it is at 3.6 GHz for those kinds of temps. 4.4G at 1.1v is also an incorrect reporting... xD


That's is taken after the test is done!



TheMadDutchDude said:


> I would have to imagine that it is at 3.6 GHz for those kinds of temps. 4.4G at 1.1v is also an incorrect reporting... xD


Auto Core Voltage! Actually it was around 3850 - 3900MHz if i remember correctly durning the test core voltage was ~ 1.208v.


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## ShrimpBrime (Oct 6, 2019)

Stock cooler.


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## Verbatim (Oct 6, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Stock cooler.


This test makes no sense different CPU and completely different testing methodology. It's like pig on moon.


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## ShrimpBrime (Oct 6, 2019)

Verbatim said:


> This test makes no sense different CPU and completely different testing methodology. It's like pig on moon.


 
I mistaken the 3 for a 2. My bad pigman.


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## Bill_Bright (Oct 6, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Without a consistent ambient (room) temperature, this is not a valid comparison - even if everyone has the same case and fan setup. Other variables apply too.





Verbatim said:


> I know but this is not rocket science test. Just for fun.





ShrimpBrime said:


> Stock cooler.





Verbatim said:


> This test makes no sense different CPU and completely different testing methodology. It's like pig on moon.


So he can't post his findings "just for fun" too?  

You posted a bucket of worms. You should expect buckets of worms in return. I'm just saying.


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## the54thvoid (Oct 6, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Without a consistent ambient (room) temperature, this is not a valid comparison - even if everyone has the same case and fan setup. Other variables apply too.



Have to agree with Bill. The thread title is CPU comparison but it's meaningless really. I appreciate it's 'for fun' but making a semi-technical thread, with specific parameters, kind of removes the fun. It's like an athletics thread asking about whose shoes are fastest based on who ran the quickest.


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## Verbatim (Oct 6, 2019)

Without any standards really ? And who will make these ambient room temperatures exactly the same ? Sorry but that's for all of us is not possible to do. It's just a talk nothing more.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 6, 2019)

As a 3700X owner who's been forced to do a lot of experimenting to get thermals under control, I see a couple of problems:

1. IBT isn't exactly a difficult stress test. IBT slows the system down, making it unusable while the test is running, but P95 far surpasses IBT in heat output, even on Smallest.

2. Auto voltage is the biggest problem here. Some boards will feed the CPU what it needs, others will overvolt it to the moon. Full load voltage is highly influential to the temps you get on Ryzen 3000. There's so much room for discrepancy that it's not even a valid comparison. But if you dictate a fixed Vcore value that everyone can hit, some people are inevitably going to have better silicon that could do the test with less volts.

3. There's also so much variation in UEFIs not only between vendors, but even between different boards from one specific vendor. When two 3700Xs are hitting different boost speeds on the same board model, the same AGESA version, the same BIOS, and the same settings, it makes things different.

4. Ryzen Power Plans seem to affect boost behaviour differently on different people's PCs, too.

5. 3700X is a 65W part, and is going to scale back the clocks regardless of what cooler you're running, because it will run into its self-imposed power limits. Thus, under a heavy stress test, even with temps under control, it will settle at around 4GHz. On some boards, PBO can extend boost time, whereas on others, the setting is useless even with custom parameters.

6. Only consistent way around the power-based throttling this is to set fixed clocks, which counts as a manual OC and casts off the limits. But in that case, even P95 Smallest can venture into triple digit power draw, something that lesser air coolers like the 92mm towers will definitely struggle with, while the D15 you have will probably be fine.

So yeah, I appreciate the sentiment, but Ryzen 3000 has too much going on for this test to mean anything.


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## Bill_Bright (Oct 6, 2019)

Verbatim said:


> And who will make these ambient room temperatures exactly the same ?


Exactly my point. You need a lab or testing facility. So you trying to apply such strict and limiting parameters "just for fun" doesn't make any sense.


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## Verbatim (Oct 6, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> 3700X is a 65W part,


HWinfo64 says it's draws up to 188w of power. And that's on Auto Core Voltage at around ~ 1.208v. Nice 65w TDP cpu.


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## ShrimpBrime (Oct 6, 2019)

Verbatim said:


> HWinfo64 says it's draws up to 188w of power. And thats on Auto Core Voltage. Nice 65w TDP cpu.



Because people confuse THERMAL design point with Cpu electrical wattage used. 
The 3700x at stock is capable of producing 222 BTUhr. Just because it's rated 65w TDP, does not mean it won't use more than 65w electrical power.

If it where actually transforming the 188w reading to BTU, which it's not (at least not totally directly) the Cpu would be capable of 642 BTUhr.

So 222 BTU or 65w TDP is based on an average of thermal output, not the electrical wattage used everyone seems so fixed on watching and then seemingly have no understanding between BTU wattage average advertised and what the system at home actually does.


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## Verbatim (Oct 6, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> You need a lab or testing facility. So you trying to apply such strict and limiting parameters "just for fun" doesn't make any sense.


My point is average human like all of us will never get to lab thats way even thinking about ambient room temp is little bit ridiculous but that's just my point of view.  

All that is needed for this test is only Ryzen 3700X CPU and AM4 CPU Cooler. And that is way easier to accomplish than that stupid room ambient temperature.


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## ShrimpBrime (Oct 6, 2019)

Well for an air cooler comparison.... which I thought before entering.... would be the same exact system hardware with different makes and models used and information documented.

But you are looking to compare your singular 3700x temp to only a small select few of people. Perhaps the thread title is just misleading.... I don't know.

Now if you showed us a comparison with your stock cooler vs the upgrade, including all information possible. Perhaps stock vs stock and OC vs OC. TIM used, tests, times other hardware ect.

Any how, looked like a review from the get go to me....


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## Lionheart (Oct 6, 2019)

Lmfao Jesus christ you can't do anything on this site without being ridiculed into oblivion, ffs let Verbatim have his thread, a simple test ain't hurting anyone.

I'll post my results soon.


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## Bill_Bright (Oct 6, 2019)

Verbatim said:


> My point is average human like all of us will never get to lab thats way even thinking about ambient room temp is little bit ridiculous but that's just my point of view.


And that's a valid point. But I note it is it currently 58°F outside where I live right now and 68°F in this office. What if I lived in Dallas right now where it is currently 94°F and my office was sitting at 82°F? 

What purpose would your comparison of 3700X and AM4 cooler serve if comparing temps in those two locations - even if identical computers? What is learned?

Lionheart is right - a simple test doesn't hurt anyone. But everyone needs to understand any comparison is invalid when the playing field is not level.


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## Verbatim (Oct 6, 2019)

Okay test may not be 100% right but at least it's some what interesting to compare legendary CPU coolers like Le Grand Macho, NH-D15, Dark Rock Pro, etc.


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## Bill_Bright (Oct 6, 2019)

Verbatim said:


> maybe i should allow to test ABC and XYZ to ?


That's up to you. And for sure, if you were comparing any other parameter besides temperatures, ambient temps would not matter.


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## hzy4 (Oct 6, 2019)

I would be glad to participate and share my temps, its an interesting idea, if:
it would be Prime95
test would have a specific ambient temperature
you would allow AIO coolers


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## Verbatim (Oct 6, 2019)

Why not intel burn test ? If your system is unstable it will show it to you that's a bonus.
You can test AIO i have nothing aginst it.
You have thermometer in your room i haven't!


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## tabascosauz (Oct 6, 2019)

@Verbatim What multipliers are being sustained during IBT for you? From the similarity of our results, I suspect it's probably not staying above 4GHz. But that requires you to PrtScr during, not after, the 7th test. And mine only ran 6 times for some reason, even though I specified 7. Also, what's up with the 185W package power? That seems...a little off.

@ShrimpBrime my point is never that it only draws 65w. It'll only ever do that if you disable boost and run everything at 3.6GHz, then it draws only around 65-70w package power max, because that's what TDP is. My point is the TDP indirectly influences how long boost can be sustained, even though it technically has nothing to do with power draw. AMD traditionally regards (because Intel considers 65w to be mainstream, nowadays) 65w as being slightly lower power SKUs than their full power SKUs, which are thus more inclined to scale back the boost on sustained load. Whereas the 3800X both boosts higher and (should boost) longer, the 3700X seems to settle to the 4GHz mark pretty quickly.





Temps are maxing out at 66c during the tests. U9S push-pull with A9s, up to about 1800rpm. 2 x A12x25 on intake, all running up to max speeds, but probably not during the first run, because the A12x25s are linked to VRM sensor temp. IBT is not a very demanding test; I've seen up to 90W and 77C on these settings.


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## ShrimpBrime (Oct 6, 2019)

Oh I see what you are saying.
The temp sensing Algorithm directly influences throttling. T-case max. That would be 95c.
According to the white papers for processor family 17h models 00h - 2FH, High temp alarm is 70c.
Edit: Ironically, these figures are identical to all TDP rated processors. 
You will always have an up to 5% give or take with TDP ratings also (jfyi)


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## Verbatim (Oct 6, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> @Verbatim What multipliers are being sustained during IBT for you?


On average it's jumping from 3850MHz to  3900MHz, 3875MHz probably will be average durning IntelBurnTest. Auto Core Voltage is ~ 1.208v


tabascosauz said:


> And mine only ran 6 times for some reason, even though I specified 7.


That's strange usually it reminds that your system is not stable probably ram.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 6, 2019)

Verbatim said:


> On average it's jumping from 3850MHz to  3900MHz, 3875MHz probably will be average durning IntelBurnTest. Core Voltage is ~ 1.208v
> 
> Thats strange usually it remains that your system is not stable probably ram.



Seems a little high for 3900MHz. Absolute lowest for 4GHz on mine is 1.194V, and mine will generally hold your 1.208v voltage at 40x all day long. Sustains 39.8-40x multiplier during stress tests. See, this is what I mean about Ryzen's wild variations making it impossible to get any concrete results across different people's systems.

My RAM's okay, has been run through Memtest86 and P95 Large dozens and dozens of times. Instability is usually when the result is numerically off, though IBT is pretty bad at catching instability for me, P95 works better. It actually did run 7 full rounds, but for some odd reason didn't output a result when the clocks eased off at the very end of the 7th round.


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## ShrimpBrime (Oct 6, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Seems a little high for 3900MHz. Absolute lowest for 4GHz on mine is 1.194V, and mine will generally hold your 1.208v voltage at 40x all day long. Sustains 39.8-40x multiplier during stress tests. See, this is what I mean about Ryzen's wild variations making it impossible to get any concrete results across different people's systems.
> 
> My RAM's okay, has been run through Memtest86 and P95 Large dozens and dozens of times. Instability is usually when the result is numerically off, though IBT is pretty bad at catching instability for me. It actually did run 7 full rounds, but for some odd reason didn't output a result when the clocks eased off at the very end of the 7th round.



Might seem high... but that chip may leak a little better than yours. Good candidate for sub zero!


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## Verbatim (Oct 6, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Seems a little high for 3900MHz. Absolute lowest for 4GHz on mine is 1.194V, and mine will generally hold your 1.208v voltage at 40x all day long. Sustains 39.8-40x multiplier during stress tests. See, this is what I mean about Ryzen's wild variations making it impossible to get any concrete results across different people's systems.


You mean manual overclocking ? Not Auto Core Voltage ? You shold test at 1.208v to see real diference in temperatures.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 6, 2019)

Verbatim said:


> You mean manual overclocking ? Not Auto Core Voltage ?



Set a manual freq and voltage to find your lower Vcore limits at any speed. That, or use negative Vcore offset with auto freq to reduce Vcore without sacrificing boost mechanics.


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## Verbatim (Oct 6, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Set a manual freq and voltage to find your lower Vcore limits at any speed. That, or use negative Vcore offset with auto freq to reduce Vcore without sacrificing boost mechanics.


It's good for vcore but it will ruin single core performance.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 6, 2019)

Verbatim said:


> It's good for vcore but it will ruin single core performance.



Depends on your board and UEFI. Generally, I'm not talking about butchering Vcore to the point where the CPU will limit its clocks because of voltage. I'm just talking about shaving off enough Vcore to reduce temps while maintaining stability under P95.

You can set your Vcore and freq manually, which will ruin single core if you run it at a speed below 4.4GHz. Using Vcore offset, instead, will not change your clock behaviour, as long as the Vcore offset is within a reasonable range.


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## (*^^*) (Oct 6, 2019)

It's not a story at all, but personally in Japan, ASRock said the 14th phase of the motherboard was compatible with the Ryzen 3000.  I'm interested.  I want to see its characteristics.


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## Nuckles56 (Oct 6, 2019)

My 3700x was peaking out at 65 degrees, in a 20 degree ambient room, running everything but the memory at stock. This is using the beQuiet! dark rock slim running under the quiet fan curve in the bios.


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## Verbatim (Oct 6, 2019)

Nuckles56 said:


> My 3700x was peaking out at 65 degrees, in a 20 degree ambient room, running everything but the memory at stock. This is using the beQuiet! dark rock slim running under the quiet fan curve in the bios.


Most important thing in this comperision is core voltage how much it was durning the test ?


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## killster1 (Oct 6, 2019)

i wonder if you spent more on your cpu cooler than your motherboard! i used to care about coolers and having crazy low temps, i prob have 3-5 hyper 212's laying around 2xaio corsair 110h and i still just ran a stock 2000 series wrath spire cooler with my ryzen 3000 chip  (put the crap 3000 cooler on teh 2700x i gave away)  Anyway it was 80F inside, excited for when its 50F inside the house and i can leave the pc's going all day for heaters. 

did you ever say what your ambient temp is?


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## Verbatim (Oct 7, 2019)

killster1 said:


> i wonder if you spent more on your cpu cooler than your motherboard!


Before you saying that look at vrm temperatures. It will beat most X570 in this area.  Paying 2x less for the same thing.

This testing isn't right we all need to lock cpu clock and set manual core voltage when this test will be much more correct.


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## killster1 (Oct 7, 2019)

Verbatim said:


> Before you saying that look at vrm temperatures. It will beat most X570 in this area.


oh if you didnt gather from my post i dont care about temps anymore, id rather have features, i purchased my x470's because of amounts of ports , audio, ethernet/ wifi / etc etc list goes on.. (i basically HAD to have usb C and 10gb) i applaud your VRM TEMps. Funny how you still have not said ambient temp! or if your mobo was cheaper then your cpu cooler hehe


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## Verbatim (Oct 7, 2019)

killster1 said:


> Funny how you still have not said ambient temp!


Is it possible to look temperature from smartphone ? I have no thermometer on my hands.


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## killster1 (Oct 7, 2019)

Verbatim said:


> Is it possible to look temperature from smartphone ? I have no thermometer on my hands.


thats funny i have a thermometer built into my hand  your house doesnt have a thermostat for controlling the heating / cooling? i guess lots of places dont have central heating / cooling.. never mind then i guess.


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## freeagent (Oct 7, 2019)

Intel Burn Test doesn't get as hot as Linpack Extreme does. You should try that.. make sure you can keep your VRM's cool 

It will show instability sooner too, especially in your ram.


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## Bill_Bright (Oct 7, 2019)

killster1 said:


> oh if you didnt gather from my post i dont care about temps anymore


You should still care about temps - as noted by the 4th line in my signature, "Heat is the bane of all electronics!". You sure don't want anything to "over" heat. It just is not necessary to care about achieving the lowest temps possible. 

Since a processor can go from cool to over-heated in just a few clock cycles, and since many processors today easily run at 2 - 3+ *b*illion clock cycles per second, I keep an eye on my temps with a system tray app running full time. I use and recommend Core Temp for that.



> Is it possible to look temperature from smartphone ?


Depends on the phone. I don't think most have local thermometers. Just checked my Sony Android and it doesn't.


killster1 said:


> thats funny i have a thermometer built into my hand
> your house doesnt have a thermostat for controlling the heating / cooling?


Yeah, hands don't work. They are pretty good at determining which of two objects are warmer, and they can tell if something is hot or cold. Beyond that, not so much.

I agree with checking the home thermostat if nothing else is available. However, my computer room (office/spare bedroom) has a couple large windows facing the morning sun, my  computer and 2 monitors cranking out heat. This room is currently 7° warmer than the thermostat reading out in the hall and my computer and monitors have only been awake for less than 30 minutes. It will soon be warmer yet. And if I wake the other computer and its two monitors, it can soon be a bit toasty in here. So you really need a thermometer in the computer room, and ideally near the main intake vent of the computer. You typically can get a simple wall thermometer for the computer room which is hardly a budget buster. These are typically accurate to within ±2C. That's close enough.

Actually, I recommend users get a decent laser guided infrared thermometer gun. These are great for checking and verifying temps inside and out of your computer case and other electronics. And they are very handy for checking temps in the kitchen (for hot and cold), grilling, the wall next to your HVAC thermostat, kid's foreheads (Not a toy! Avoid eyes!) and more. The better models are more accurate and perhaps more importantly, have much more accurate laser targeting (so your temp reading is for precisely where you are pointing).

Or, if looking for a decent multimeter too, many also have temperature probes. My meter is the Mastech MS8209 which includes a very accurate K-type thermocouple probe on a 40 inch cable - plenty long to dangle inside a closed computer case (or oven). This one is accurate to within ±1%, which is very accurate for this type of device. The thermocouple itself is small enough you can easily put it between the fins of most heatsinks.


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## ShrimpBrime (Oct 7, 2019)

Yep need to care about temps to compare air coolers.
If temps are not required for comparison, then the cooling shouldnt matter either.

I think any goal with cooler upgrades is to achieve the lowest temp possible. 
Sadly in most cases even a cooler temp doesnt yield a higher overclock with Ryzen processors of any generation.

In lieu of the sake of argument, if you can lower temps significantly enough, you could run the same overclock with a much lower voltage, because the cold reduces leakage.
So in essence, the hotter your chip runs, the more v-core it may require for stability.
Obviously I may be hinting at chilling the water loop, or opening the window in the dead of winter, but thats always what makes overclocking fun imo.


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## Bill_Bright (Oct 7, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> I think any goal with cooler upgrades is to achieve the lowest temp possible.


Nah! And you explained why in your next sentence.


ShrimpBrime said:


> Sadly in most cases even a cooler temp doesnt yield a higher overclock with Ryzen processors of any generation.


Right. Cooler does *NOT* automatically mean better. In fact, as long as the temps are comfortably within the processor's normal operating range, cooler temps do NOT provide better stability, better performance, or improved longevity. That is, a CPU running at 30°C will not perform better or last longer than a CPU running at 55°C.  

So the goal with any cooler should be to keep the temps comfortably within that normal temperature operating range. If the Tcase is rated at 100°C, you don't want to be running at 90°C most of the time. There's nothing wrong with 30 or 40°C. But there's nothing wrong with 55°C either.

Also, this does not mean you must keep the temps in that safe zone or below when abusing the system with Prime95! But it does mean you must keep your temps in that zone when performing the most demanding tasks you would put the computer through in "real-world" use - whether that be playing your most taxing game, or doing CAD/CAE or other intensive graphics rending tasks. Prime95 and other stress test programs are NOT realistic real-world scenarios our computers must endure. They are simulated demands designed to test the limits of our systems in "artificial" scenarios.

If your cooling keeps your system from crossing thermal protection threshold when running Prime95, then great. But that artificial scenario does not "need" to be its or your goal - except for bragging rights.


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## ShrimpBrime (Oct 7, 2019)

Only most of this true with a 95c T-case max Ryzen processor. 

A little different story for previous AMD processors many of which had as low as 65-70c T-case max temp where lower temps would increase overclocking and stability. But we are no longer in those times, at least those that have upgraded to Ryzen in the past coulple of years.

However observing the white papers, which Ive made mention of in other threads, 70c is a high temp alert to the board.
At 70c on stock systems, the cpu fan should be at full blast. Lower depending on the board, but never more than 70c. 
The high temp alert is not reset until temps are below 70c.

Overclocking is ALL about bragging rights. And thats what 90% of people try to accomplish. Highest clock possible.

Really the OC takes away from processor effeciency which at a certain point perhaps beyond x v-core is completely lost.


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## Bill_Bright (Oct 7, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> 70c is a high temp alert to the board.
> At 70c on stock systems, the cpu fan should be at full blast. Lower depending on the board, but never more than 70c.


But that really is just an arbitrary number set by that board maker, not the CPU maker. And that number is set regardless the CPU installed and most motherboards support a pretty large variety of processors that have a wide variety of T-case (or T-Junction or whatever) specifications. And the user can easily change (or even disable) that in the BIOS Setup menu.


ShrimpBrime said:


> Overclocking is ALL about bragging rights.


 Well, of course, that simply is not true.


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## robot zombie (Oct 7, 2019)

One reason to have the capacity to cool beyond what your CPU needs is to reduce noise. Big, high TDP tower with big fan runs less audibly and at lower rpms to move the same heat energy as a smaller one humming away and really getting to work. That it holds lower temps is almost incidental... but usually the cooler getting lower temperatures doesn't have to work as hard... you can slow it down and use the headroom to reduce noise levels.

I know if given the choice between the large tower and teeny little hockey puck downdraft cooler, Im going with the tower every time I can fit it, even if the hockey puck holds acceptable temperatures. May not need the full capability of it, but the lower noise is definitely worth it.


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## Bill_Bright (Oct 7, 2019)

robot zombie said:


> One reason to have the capacity to cool beyond what your CPU needs is to reduce noise.


I agree with this 100%. I hate fan noise. I mean I really hate it. So if you need your temps cooler to let your fans spin at a lower RPM, I'm all for that. But it should be pointed out, a quality case not only provides great air flow through the case, it also helps suppress noise.


robot zombie said:


> I know if given the choice between the large tower and teeny little hockey puck downdraft cooler, Im going with the tower every time I can fit it, even if the hockey puck holds acceptable temperatures. May not need the full capability of it, but the lower noise is definitely worth it.


This is one of the reasons I say "gaming notebooks" is any oxymoron and nothing more than marketing hype. They can pack the horsepower of a PC into those tiny cases, but not the cooling.


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## ShrimpBrime (Oct 7, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> But that really is just an arbitrary number set by that board maker, not the CPU maker. And that number is set regardless the CPU installed and most motherboards support a pretty large variety of processors that have a wide variety of T-case (or T-Junction or whatever) specifications. And the user can easily change (or even disable) that in the BIOS Setup menu.
> Well, of course, that simply is not true.



No its not an arbitrary number set by the board. It is directly part of AMD temp algorithm. 
Somewhere around page 520 or something.
When I get home, Ill pm you the link and specific page to look for this information.


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## Bill_Bright (Oct 7, 2019)

70° may be what AMD states for that processor but that is not what I mean. What I am saying is the board maker, and/or the BIOS/chipset maker sets that value in the BIOS firmware. This is not some value pre-coded in the processor that then is read into and set in the BIOS.

Sorry for not being more clear.


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## jesdals (Oct 7, 2019)

Well I cant tell about 3700x but my Noctua NH15D-SE manage my 3800x at 4500Mhz all core using 1.45vcore under 80c in gaming, so pretty happy - but lot of aitflow ind my cabinett.


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## moproblems99 (Oct 7, 2019)

Nuckles56 said:


> My 3700x was peaking out at 65 degrees, in a 20 degree ambient room, running everything but the memory at stock. This is using the beQuiet! dark rock slim running under the quiet fan curve in the bios.



Lucky, my 3900X basically idles at 65.  Doing some testing tonight it hit 89.

The brief time I had my 3700X was about the same. It seems these chips run a little toasty.

Now I get to mod myself a bracket for pump/res or buy a different one.


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## ShrimpBrime (Oct 7, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> 70° may be what AMD states for that processor but that is not what I mean. What I am saying is the board maker, and/or the BIOS/chipset maker sets that value in the BIOS firmware. This is not some value pre-coded in the processor that then is read into and set in the BIOS.
> 
> Sorry for not being more clear.



For the entire processor family. Not one single chip.
But yes, I understand your point of view better now.
If still interested in the technical informations on Ryzen processors, Ill gladly share as it is public anyways. Just most people dont bother with this type of information and take what they do know solely from just experience and push the thought that the experience matters only to a specific processor. Which in most cases is not true.

But I dont know much about processor cooling with Ryzen chips. Ive only had a few as low as only -30c with unconventional TEC chilling.


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## robot zombie (Oct 7, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> It seems these chips run a little toasty.


That all sounds _a lot_ toasty compared to Zen+.


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## ShrimpBrime (Oct 7, 2019)

@Bill_Bright 
Page 255 from Open-Source Register Reference For AMD Family 17h Processors Models 00h-2Fh 
Not proving points, just sharing the information.


> The high temperature threshold specifies the CPU temperature that causes ALERT_L to assert if the CPU temperature is greater than or equal to the threshold. SBTSI::HiTempInt and SBTSI::HiTempDec combine to specify the high temperature threshold. See 6.2.5 [SB-TSI Temperature and Threshold Encodings]. Reset value equals 70 °C. Write access causes a reset of the alert history counters (specified by SBTSI::AlertThreshold[AlertThr]) and the corresponding timer (specified by SBTSI::UpdateRate[UpRate]). See 6.2.3 [Alert Behavior].


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## tabascosauz (Oct 7, 2019)

robot zombie said:


> That all sounds _a lot_ toasty compared to Zen+.



Oh, you're in for one hell of a surprise if you make the upgrade from a 2600. I built a 2600 system for a friend on the eve of the 3000 launch, before I upgraded my 4790K to a 3700X. We made do with an NH-L9a (barely), because he wanted to build it in a SG13 and fly with it. It was nice and quiet, and cool at idle. If I had tried the L9a with a 3700X, you'd find HBO filming season 2 of Chernobyl at my house.

That 2600 topped out at 65c in gaming, with a L9a and zero airflow. My 3700X reaches 65c in gaming, with a push-pull U9S and twin A12x25s. The good thing is that clocks are dialed back under multi-core load, so 65 is pretty much the max, but if you manually set clocks, the gloves are coming off.

The selling point of Zen 2 is the responsiveness, and the necessary consequence is that idle is not exactly "idle" anymore.


----------



## Nuckles56 (Oct 7, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> Lucky, my 3900X basically idles at 65.  Doing some testing tonight it hit 89.
> 
> The brief time I had my 3700X was about the same. It seems these chips run a little toasty.
> 
> Now I get to mod myself a bracket for pump/res or buy a different one.


Mine has been pretty well behaved thermally, but it seems to find 4.2GHz to be a hard wall and no PBO/ manual OC will let me get past that so swings and roundabouts


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Oct 7, 2019)

Nuckles56 said:


> Mine has been pretty well behaved thermally, but it seems to find 4.2GHz to be a hard wall and no PBO/ manual OC will let me get past that so swings and roundabouts



Try disable SMT and maybe pass 4.2ghz?


----------



## robot zombie (Oct 8, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Oh, you're in for one hell of a surprise if you make the upgrade from a 2600. I built a 2600 system for a friend on the eve of the 3000 launch, before I upgraded my 4790K to a 3700X. We made do with an NH-L9a (barely), because he wanted to build it in a SG13 and fly with it. It was nice and quiet, and cool at idle. If I had tried the L9a with a 3700X, you'd find HBO filming season 2 of Chernobyl at my house.
> 
> That 2600 topped out at 65c in gaming, with a L9a and zero airflow. My 3700X reaches 65c in gaming, with a push-pull U9S and twin A12x25s. The good thing is that clocks are dialed back under multi-core load, so 65 is pretty much the max, but if you manually set clocks, the gloves are coming off.
> 
> The selling point of Zen 2 is the responsiveness, and the necessary consequence is that idle is not exactly "idle" anymore.


Haha, that whole setup sounds all kind of crazy to me 

If that's anything to go by I probably won't worry too, too much... I don't have any coolers nearly that size on hand except for the Wraith.... otherwise my on-hand options are a Scythe Mugen Max or Dark Rock 4. Both a little higher performing, and I'm betting my airflow situation will be more generous. Still shopping for a new case... looking at reasonably spacious ATX cases with space for two decent-sized rads. Push comes to shove Ryzen 3000 will be the final tipping point for me to go full custom loop. 

No full manual... not if I'm going X. Seems rather unnecessary. No way I'd ever buy a 3900 and run an all-core. I can't even imagine... what would happen if you tried to push all cores to say... the classic, fabled 4.2ghz of older Ryzen chips and slammed it with heavy, heavy parallel loads? If I flip the mobo over, dipping the heatsink in a bowl of water, will it have me ready for spaghetti like those crazy water-heater things that use power straight from the wall to boil water?


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 8, 2019)

robot zombie said:


> Haha, that whole setup sounds all kind of crazy to me
> 
> If that's anything to go by I probably won't worry too, too much... I don't have any coolers nearly that size on hand except for the Wraith.... otherwise my on-hand options are a Scythe Mugen Max or Dark Rock 4. Both a little higher performing, and I'm betting my airflow situation will be more generous. Still shopping for a new case... looking at reasonably spacious ATX cases with space for two decent-sized rads. Push comes to shove Ryzen 3000 will be the final tipping point for me to go full custom loop.
> 
> No full manual... not if I'm going X. Seems rather unnecessary. No way I'd ever buy a 3900 and run an all-core. I can't even imagine... what would happen if you tried to push all cores to say... the classic, fabled 4.2ghz of older Ryzen chips and slammed it with heavy, heavy parallel loads? If I flip the mobo over, dipping the heatsink in a bowl of water, will it have me ready for spaghetti like those crazy water-heater things that use power straight from the wall to boil water?



Don't let it put you off too much, haha. As long as you have 1.0.0.3ABBA, while things aren't perfect, they've come a long way from where they were. As long as you have a run-of-the-mill chip (read: not a total silicon potato), you have plenty of room to drop the volts. I shaved off nearly 10C in P95 and a similar amount in OCCT and IBT by setting -0.075V. That DR4 will be ready for it. The 3700X, at least, will drop to 40x when all 8 cores are in action, which keeps your temps comfortable. Just don't set it manually to 4400MHz and pump 1.45V of Vcore into it. 

I'm personally eager to see what the N7+ process and AMD have to offer, after gleaning valuable lessons from Zen2. That might be a worthwhile upgrade from Zen+.


----------



## John Naylor (Oct 8, 2019)

Juts  few things to consider:

1.   Use with you are confortable with but the question you might consider is how many folks built their PC to run IBT ?   If you're aiming for relevance, I prefer to use use an application based benchmark like RoG Real Bench.  Using something P95 puts unrealistic loads on the CPU which just means that you are compromising your OC.    RoG RB might get you to X.Y Ghz at just under the "acceptable temp limit" you have chosen, but throw P95 into the mix and you are likely going to see temps well over the limit you have chosen and require a reduction in OC.  In addition, have seen 24 hour P95 OCs fail under multitasking stress tests like RB.  

2.  It's not hard to record ambient temps and report delta T ?  That's the only number that's relevant.

3.  One note about IR data.   I have 3 Infrared "gun" thermometers.... One in toolbox (Fluke 568) used at industrial plants, one in kitchen (cheap no name $29) and 1 in garage (old thing .. about $99 when new)  ... none of them shows the same temperature and a 3 degree variance is not unusual.   They need to be calibrated and also for accuracy, have to choose correct setting for the surface being measured.  And they certainly don't show the same temp as reported by HWiNFO ... still good enough for measuring Delta T, less so for absolute temps.   I use HWiNFO.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 8, 2019)

I built my machine to run Linpack extreme in the summer lol   Well.. to cool it anyways.. an added benefit is that my GPU doesn't get hot, nor do my other components 
Meshify C can move some serious air, but not with dinky 50 or 60 cfm fans that's just crazy talk 
You can overclock, but if you cant run an app because it gets your pc to hot, then you shouldn't be running that overclock. You cant have silence and high performance. My CPU tops out at 4700, and I can run LE but I have to turn my fans up. It will do it, but it definitely wont be quiet.. and it will be in the 90s somewhere.. soo not that cool either 
So.. if you cant cool it just don't run it  Your computer should be able to run anything you throw at it, just like a stock computer. If it cant do that then its not a solid overclock and you are just fooling yourself and possibly others, but not everyone.

I know this is for AMD, and I have an Intel, so for that I apologize..  I'm not crapping on AMD or anyone, I'm just sayin


----------



## moproblems99 (Oct 8, 2019)

84C while playing D2 tonight for an hour or so.  Going to put an emergency watercool bandaid on it until I figure out what I want to do for realz.


----------



## Midiamp (Oct 8, 2019)

72C playing Destiny 2. 3700X + NH-D15S and Sapphire 5700XT Nitro+. Room temp about 28C. 

Idles around 43C. With AC on, idles around 37C. Playing Destiny 2 still hovers around 72C on AC due to the case being an enclosed oven with the 5700XT running at full tilt.

So far okay with the 3700X, but I'm considering 3900 if it comes in non pro guise. Would love those 12 cores for watching youtube and other pointless things.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Oct 8, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> If still interested in the technical informations on Ryzen processors, Ill gladly share as it is public anyways


Thanks, but I don't need it.


ShrimpBrime said:


> Just most people dont bother with this type of information and take what they do know solely from just experience and push the thought that the experience matters only to a specific processor.


Actually, sadly, what some do is take their experience with one or two processors and push the thought that that experience matters to "all" processors. 



ShrimpBrime said:


> Ive only had a few as low as only -30c with unconventional TEC chilling.


Yeah, I played around with Peltier cooling many years go. I never used direct contact with the CPU Peltier cooling. Instead, I used Peltier to cool the antifreeze solution running through the block. The antifreeze got to around -10°C, and the processors close to 0°C. But never anything near -30°C. That's pretty remarkable. 

It is pretty cool (no pun intended) to get temps well below ambient, but too bad Peltier cooling requires so much power to work. The Peltier I used consumed nearly 300W. Hardly efficient when you consider a radiator with 3 x 120mm fans today may consume just 10W at full RPM and another 20W for the pump. And of course, going well below ambients creates a condensation problem - not good. But this is for a different discussion.



ShrimpBrime said:


> Page 255 from Open-Source Register Reference For AMD Family 17h Processors Models 00h-2Fh
> Not proving points, just sharing the information.


You are talking about thermal threshold alerts set internally by a specific processor. And I get that and do not disagree with what you are saying.

I was commenting on the thermal thresholds set in the motherboard's BIOS firmware. Those values are pre-set in the firmware by the chipset/BIOS and/or motherboard maker. It may be based on data provided by AMD, but the CPU does not set the value in the BIOS. That pre-set in the BIOS firmware remains the same regardless the installed processor and is [hopefully] safe for all the processors that board supports. 

The OP's board, a MSI B450M Mortar, for example, supports 1st, 2nd and 3rd gen Ryzen 3, Ryzen 5, Ryzen 7 and Ryzen 9 processors, as well as several Athlon processors. Those supported processors have TDP wattage ratings as low as 35W all the way up to 105W. Do they all use that same 70°C threshold? I don't know and really don't want to do the research, but I would be surprised if they do. But if they do, then it just confirms to me it is an arbitrary, but safe  value AMD set.

In any case, I am just saying the "default" threshold value set in the motherboard's BIOS firmware may, or may not be the same as the processor's set value. And the BIOS setting can be changed by the user, or even disabled. The processor's set value is fixed and cannot be disabled, as far as I know.

So I think we are talking about two different settings and we should probably move on and back to the OP's topic.


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Oct 8, 2019)

Well Id love to move on, but you asked me questions!!!
Quickly, yes Ive gotten 2x Ryzen Athlon processors and tested only first and second gen. 
On the same board 70c alert was identical for all.
That would be and not limited to
Athlon 200ge, Athlon 220ge, Ryzen 1200, Ryzen 1400, Ryzen 2700.
Done on same and different boards both of the B450 chipset. So seemingly as you stated a Cpu base setting.

Yes some features can be disabled in bios, mostly none for Therm trip or throttle Tcase max temps. These are pretty set in stone manual oc or not.

But yes, back to topic. Sry for derail.


----------



## dirtyferret (Oct 8, 2019)

Midiamp said:


> 72C playing Destiny 2. 3700X + NH-D15S and Sapphire 5700XT Nitro+. Room temp about 28C.
> 
> Idles around 43C. With AC on, idles around 37C. Playing Destiny 2 still hovers around 72C on AC due to the case being an enclosed oven with the 5700XT running at full tilt.
> 
> So far okay with the 3700X, but I'm considering 3900 if it comes in non pro guise. Would love those 12 cores for watching youtube and other pointless things.



Out of curiosity are these 70c+ temps constant or just a spike?  My 9700K @ 4.9ghz all cores pretty much stays at 55-65c while gaming but if I look at max temps there could be spikes as high as 74c in gaming sessions.


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## Bill_Bright (Oct 8, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Well Id love to move on, but you asked me questions!!!


Ummm, I don't think so. I mean I did ask 1 question, but it was meant as rhetorical. But no big deal. 



dirtyferret said:


> Out of curiosity are these 70c+ temps constant or just a spike?


Now that's a good question. I would hope just spikes.


----------



## NoJuan999 (Oct 8, 2019)

My 3700x with an Arctic 33 eSports Edition (dual fan) cooler idles at around 30 to 32c and maxes out at 60 to 62c while playing games like AC: Odessey, FC 5, etc.
My ambient temp is around 22c.
I have PBO enabled (+100 Mhz, 10x Scalar and Motherboard set to control limits) and my single core max is 4.425 GHz and multicore gets up to 4.3 or 4.325 GHZ while playing games.
If I run CB R20 Multicore it maxes out at ~75c.


----------



## moproblems99 (Oct 9, 2019)

dirtyferret said:


> Out of curiosity are these 70c+ temps constant or just a spike?



Depends on how long you classify a spike as.  Generally, while pushing the actual pixels, my 3900X was roughly averaging 74C to 78C with spikes over 80C.  Mind you, this was only after about 30 to 40 minutes.  Luckily, the rest of the parts to bandaid my water cooler will be here tomorrow while I figure out if I really want to do hard tubing.


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## ShrimpBrime (Oct 9, 2019)

Hard tubing looks so nice and clean. Quite a bit of work, but I think the work pays off in the end. 
My opinion, go for it. If you never done it, then you can say you have


----------



## robot zombie (Oct 9, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> Depends on how long you classify a spike as.  Generally, while pushing the actual pixels, my 3900X was roughly averaging 74C to 78C with spikes over 80C.  Mind you, this was only after about 30 to 40 minutes.  Luckily, the rest of the parts to bandaid my water cooler will be here tomorrow while I figure out if I really want to do hard tubing.


What cooler are we talking here? Apologies if you've already mentioned it.



ShrimpBrime said:


> Hard tubing looks so nice and clean. Quite a bit of work, but I think the work pays off in the end.
> My opinion, go for it. If you never done it, then you can say you have


Haha, agreed. In all of these years I've never gone that route, but I've already decided for sure that if I do a custom loop, it's gotta be glass. Nothing sexier than a pristinely cut and routed glass loop.


----------



## moproblems99 (Oct 9, 2019)

robot zombie said:


> What cooler are we talking here? Apologies if you've already mentioned it.
> 
> 
> Haha, agreed. In all of these years I've never gone that route, but I've already decided for sure that if I do a custom loop, it's gotta be glass. Nothing sexier than a pristinely cut and routed glass loop.



Wraith.

I wouldn't do glass tubing.  I am not even sure glass tubing is available.  Bending it would be a nightmare.



ShrimpBrime said:


> Hard tubing looks so nice and clean. Quite a bit of work, but I think the work pays off in the end.
> My opinion, go for it. If you never done it, then you can say you have



I want to but I am already going to need another pump/res combo or figure out how to mod a bracket.  I hate ghetto looking mounts so that is going to be the toughest.  I have been looking at the Maelstrom D5 V2 from Swiftech or possibly the Tt Pacific pr22 (I think was the name).  I really like my Photon with D5 though but no vertical mounts exist for it.


----------



## robot zombie (Oct 9, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> Wraith.
> 
> I wouldn't do glass tubing.  I am not even sure glass tubing is available.  Bending it would be a nightmare.


Thanks... even with the stock cooler those temps do seem rather high but it's good to know there's some hope!

And yes... glass tubing does exist... for all sorts of things. Some systems outside of PC's can't use anything else due to reactivity, or it's used in systems that need to be kept sanitary. So even if you can't find any marketed for custom loops, you can sure find an od that'll fit the fittings that attach to yer pump/res/blocks and go at it! And my god is it beautiful. It just has this shine and clarity to it that the plastic can't match. It also diffuses light in ways that only glass can. Very distinctive. Also doesn't stain or soak-up gook! Take the whole thing apart and soak it in whatever solvents you want! Well maybe not any... but definitely ones you couldn't have anywhere near plastic. Much easier to care for in that way. I would also assume it doesn't leach out evaporating liquid... not from the tubing itself anyway. The seals on the fittings and in the other parts of the loop probably would.

Bending it would indeed be very difficult. Instead you buy it with bends formed and cut the excess from the legs to make it fit. From a looks standpoint, you do, anyway. Though more realistically you'll buy some straight tubing and use compression elbows in place of bends... hopefully with a wide enough inner diameter that all of the hard 90's don't negatively impact flow. So likely a little wider than you would go for plastic. I would think, anyway... though I'm drawing on plumbing knowledge and experience for that assumption 

Cutting it is like cutting any other glass, though. You score it down until there's so little left that you can cleanly snap it off and smooth over the edges of the break, almost like cutting copper tubing, really. Similar tool. That aspect isn't so much difficult as it is tedious. The real challenge is getting perfect measurements and cuts so that everything seats right in the fittings. Just like with real plumbing, you have to think very geometrically and get the exact lengths down. Because if you screw it up, that's more tubing and a lot more time spent cutting than with the plastic hardline. And you never want to have hard tubing not flush and bottomed out in a comp fitting. It may not fail right away, but eventually the seal will give on the weaker side.

Worth looking into if you haven't considered it. Though yes from what I can tell it is significantly more work, planning, and care.


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## ShrimpBrime (Oct 9, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> Wraith.
> 
> I wouldn't do glass tubing.  I am not even sure glass tubing is available.  Bending it would be a nightmare.
> 
> ...



The ups and downs of liquid cooling. 
Stopped running a case some years back now. Gave a good handful of gear to a local buddy and team mate at warp9. 2x 120.3 and 2x 120.2 rads pump and mini res. The 5th res in my case was sized to the back panel of 80mm x2. Water cooled 2x 580s and aquires a 3 pack of 8800 Ultras with blocks which the lool couldnt handle all 3 with a cpu lol. 
Tons of work with tubes and cable management. Many hours. 
All housed in a full Aluminum TJ07 case with dual PSUs. I think it was close to 100 pounds fully loaded. Ran raptors in raid and 2-4 storage drives. Had it all man. Even my Ageia Physx card but wasnt on the loop. 

Now. Water from the tap on a bench table. I run my Ryzen in a lower Pstate of 3.2ghz 1.05v nice and cool. 0 fan rpm.


----------



## Taraquin (Oct 9, 2019)

Maybe mention before but a tips to lower temps on the 3000-series is to use the best thermal paste possible (not the stock stuff which). Safe approach is Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut which often reduces temp by 3-5C during load compared with popular stock paste like MX-M4 etc.

Second tips is to undervolt with an offset. Don`t set a fixed voltage, it ruins performance. Most will be able to set a -50 to -100mv offset which can lower temps by 5-10C. Undervolt With offset has generally no impact on performance. In some circumstances it can improve performance since Ryzen 3-series has certain temp-threshold where the lower clocks. In general there is several such threshold between 55C and 80C of temp according to gamersnexus. If a offsett og -80mv lowers temp by 8C it can possibly make the CPU run 100MHz faster if you are close to one of the temp\frequency-points.


----------



## Midiamp (Oct 16, 2019)

dirtyferret said:


> Out of curiosity are these 70c+ temps constant or just a spike?  My 9700K @ 4.9ghz all cores pretty much stays at 55-65c while gaming but if I look at max temps there could be spikes as high as 74c in gaming sessions.


my room temp is 28 degrees C, and I use Fractal Design Define C with a Micro ATX board. So my case temp is governed by the hottest component which is my GPU. 72 degrees C is still okay in my book, the trade off is fair, I look for a compact case with good sound insulation, and I got my wish... Probably going to be much worse temp with Be Quiet offering.


----------



## moproblems99 (Oct 19, 2019)

While I know this is for air cooling, I just got my temporary loop setup for 3900X.  On the wraith, I was getting spikes as high as 90C and gaming was averaging about 75C - 80C.  With my loop, my highest spike has been 68C and the average temp looked like 58C to 64C .  This has been in a room that sits at about 28C.  Idles were about 45C to 55C on the Wraith and on water it is more like 37C to 47C.  Idles are tough because about every 10 seconds it takes a 10C jump.  I can just about count it down and watch the temps drop till about 37C and then it will jump back up to about 47C and repeat.

The most interesting thing out of all this is that my boost speeds were actually about 25mhz to 50mhz better on the Wraith....


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Oct 19, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> The most interesting thing out of all this is that my boost speeds were actually about 25mhz to 50mhz better on the Wraith....



Lol. This goes way way back.... some chips just like to be warmer. 
or
you've got different settings in bios going on between the testing?


----------



## moproblems99 (Oct 19, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Lol. This goes way way back.... some chips just like to be warmer.
> or
> you've got different settings in bios going on between the testing?



Same settings.  Weird but 6 of my 12 cores still boost to 4599 or over.  The other 6 sit at about 4349 to 4399.


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## ShrimpBrime (Oct 19, 2019)

Well the only suggestion I have to give you is to apply a fan to the VRM area. You took away that air flow from removing the stock cooler. See if that helps.
edit: can you update your system specs please?


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## Divide Overflow (Oct 19, 2019)

My 3900X runs games at around 53 - 60 on air cooling at 22 ambient.


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## moproblems99 (Oct 19, 2019)

Divide Overflow said:


> My 3900X runs games at around 53 - 60 on air cooling at 22 ambient.



Unlucky I guess? I mean mine doesn't even do that on water.


----------



## Rahnak (Oct 19, 2019)

I recently got a 3700X and decided to give the stock cooler a chance, to see if I could avoid spending extra on a cooler, but it doesn't seem like that's gonna happen.
While it does a pretty acceptable job cooling the cpu - I'm getting low 60s playing AC Unity, which is slightly below what I was getting on my 2500k with a Hyper 212+; the fact that temps oscillates so much at supposedly idle, means the fan keeps ramping up and down in the 900 to 1100 rpm range and it's pretty audible. It's been driving me nuts.

So I think I'm getting a Scythe Fuma 2, seems like it has a pretty stellar price/performance ratio.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Oct 19, 2019)

Some times all it takes is another case fan.


----------



## moproblems99 (Oct 20, 2019)

Rahnak said:


> I recently got a 3700X and decided to give the stock cooler a chance, to see if I could avoid spending extra on a cooler, but it doesn't seem like that's gonna happen.
> While it does a pretty acceptable job cooling the cpu - I'm getting low 60s playing AC Unity, which is slightly below what I was getting on my 2500k with a Hyper 212+; the fact that temps oscillates so much at supposedly idle, means the fan keeps ramping up and down in the 900 to 1100 rpm range and it's pretty audible. It's been driving me nuts.
> 
> So I think I'm getting a Scythe Fuma 2, seems like it has a pretty stellar price/performance ratio.



The oscillations were annoying as crap.  It happens when one or more of cores boost and drive the core voltage to or near 1.5v.  the cores seem to boost for very trivial background tests.


----------



## Rahnak (Oct 20, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Some times all it takes is another case fan.


Opening the side panel doesn't make a difference, so I don't think adding another fan would help much either. It's just a small fan that's too audible for my personal taste above 1000 rpm. Maybe if the case was on the ground, under the desk it wouldn't bother me.



moproblems99 said:


> The oscillations were annoying as crap.  It happens when one or more of cores boost and drive the core voltage to or near 1.5v.  the cores seem to boost for very trivial background tests.


It's certainly a different experience than what I was used to with Intel. Just opening file explorer makes the cooler ramp up. And having Firefox open makes it "idle" between 40~50ºC, which is quite a considerable delta.
Yesterday night I just closed everything except for hwinfo and I just sat here looking at the cpu temp and fan speed and wondering "What the heck are you even doing?".


----------



## Bill_Bright (Oct 20, 2019)

Rahnak said:


> Opening the side panel doesn't make a difference, so I don't think adding another fan would help much either.


In terms of case cooling, these do two very different and unrelated things. You should not use the effects of one to judge the other.

Adding another case fan can significant increase the desired front-to-back "flow" of cool air through the case. 

Opening the side panel can totally disrupt, or even eliminate that desired flow. I never recommend opening the side panel unless you are also going to blast a desk fan in there. 



Rahnak said:


> It's just a small fan that's too audible for my personal taste


Well I hate, I mean I really hate fan noise so I can relate to that. Small fans tend to make more noise because they generally have to spin faster to move the same amount of air as larger fans. So I recommend you inspect your case to see if it will support additional and larger (preferably 120mm or larger) case fans. Generally you want front case fans drawing cool air in, and rear fans exhausting heated air out. This is the most common direction used because power supply fans already push air out the back, and that direction cannot be changed. So "to keep with the flow" case fans are typically oriented to maintain that same flow direction - though you will sometimes see bottom to top. 

If your case does not support larger fans, not all fans are created equal. You may just need to replace existing fans with better quality, quieter fans.

It should be noted another responsibility of the case is to suppress noise. So upgrading the case may help here too. I really like Fractal Design cases. Many models have sound deadening lining built right in. Plus FD fans are very quiet. The R4, R5 and R6 come with excellent 140mm fans.


----------



## Rahnak (Oct 20, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Well I hate, I mean I really hate fan noise so I can relate to that. Small fans tend to make more noise because they generally have to spin faster to move the same amount of air as larger fans. So I recommend you inspect your case to see if it will support additional and larger (preferably 120mm or larger) case fans. Generally you want front case fans drawing cool air in, and rear fans exhausting heated air out. This is the most common direction used because power supply fans already push air out the back, and that direction cannot be changed. So "to keep with the flow" case fans are typically oriented to maintain that same flow direction - though you will sometimes see bottom to top.
> 
> If your case does not support larger fans, not all fans are created equal. You may just need to replace existing fans with better quality, quieter fans.
> 
> It should be noted another responsibility of the case is to suppress noise. So upgrading the case may help here too. I really like Fractal Design cases. Many models have sound deadening lining built right in. Plus FD fans are very quiet. The R4, R5 and R6 come with excellent 140mm fans.


I do have a Fractal case, the Define S, which is kind of a Define R lite, if you will. Got some sound deadening on the side panels. And I did just upgrade the stock FD fans it came with, because of some vibration noise I had on the front. I now have three 140mm bequiet! Silent Wings 3, two in the front, one in the back, running at ~1000rpm. There is space to another front fan on the bottom, but it would be mostly pointing at the psu.


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## killster1 (Oct 25, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> You should still care about temps - as noted by the 4th line in my signature, "Heat is the bane of all electronics!". You sure don't want anything to "over" heat. It just is not necessary to care about achieving the lowest temps possible.
> 
> Since a processor can go from cool to over-heated in just a few clock cycles, and since many processors today easily run at 2 - 3+ *b*illion clock cycles per second, I keep an eye on my temps with a system tray app running full time. I use and recommend Core Temp for that.
> 
> ...


you think your cpu is going to die from heat? i used to think that too 20 years ago.. since then i never have had a cpu die, even the ones i built for friends that had no fan and throttled the whole time at 100c where fine when replaced the fan/ pump / clogged with smoke dust dirt grime heatsink. Its nearing winter so im rather happy to leave the pc on and use it for a space heater, during the summer i underclock/undervolt. 

you can always buy a smarter thermostat for your house that measures each room  anways this is such old reply sorry i was on vaca in italy/france/ireland living it up.


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## Bill_Bright (Oct 25, 2019)

> you think your cpu is going to die from heat?


Huh?  Where did I EVER say that? I didn't. Please don't try to put words in our mouths. That's not cool. Go by what we actually say.

I NEVER said the CPU will die from heat. But it can over heat which can indeed shorten the lifespan of any electronics device. In fact, if allowed to stay excessively "warm" for extended periods of time, that heat can actually damage the socket or even the motherboard underneath. This is rare but can happen. You can sometimes see the early effects of this by the darkening of the socket materials.

And a CPU (or any electronics device) could die from heat if allowed to get "too hot". This is exactly why thermal protection is hard coded into the processor itself - so it will never get "too hot".


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## moproblems99 (Oct 25, 2019)

killster1 said:


> you think your cpu is going to die from heat?



There aren't a lot of things that kill electronics but heat is one of them.


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## killster1 (Oct 25, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Huh?  Where did I EVER say that? I didn't. Please don't try to put words in our mouths. That's not cool. Go by what we actually say.
> 
> I NEVER said the CPU will die from heat. But it can over heat which can indeed shorten the lifespan of any electronics device. In fact, if allowed to stay excessively "warm" for extended periods of time, that heat can actually damage the socket or even the motherboard underneath. This is rare but can happen. You can sometimes see the early effects of this by the darkening of the socket materials.
> 
> And a CPU (or any electronics device) could die from heat if allowed to get "too hot". This is exactly why thermal protection is hard coded into the processor itself - so it will never get "too hot".


because i asked if you think heat will kill the cpu doesnt mean you said that heat is going to kill the cpu. Like i said i used to care about temps and all that then i realized everything is designed to run at extreme temps and i usually buy decent hardware with decent stock cooling anyway with airflow of course.* of course heat will make solderpoints break and brittle* but as far as the cpu from heat nah not worried at all  (of course ive never spent more than 400 on a cpu and by the time it would die i would be happy to upgrade


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## ShrimpBrime (Oct 25, 2019)

killster1 said:


> because i asked if you think heat will kill the cpu doesnt mean you said that heat is going to kill the cpu. Like i said i used to care about temps and all that then i realized everything is designed to run at extreme temps and i usually buy decent hardware with decent stock cooling anyway with airflow of course.* of course heat will make solderpoints break and brittle* but as far as the cpu from heat nah not worried at all  (of course ive never spent more than 400 on a cpu and by the time it would die i would be happy to upgrade



The electronics are built to support supposed "heat" in the terms of high temperatures. Your high temp will differ from mine. 

So generally VRMs at 90c is within operating range. Fear not, they probably good to 110c. 
Ryzen Cpu for example, 3000 series good for 95c before throttle, ThermTrip (board shuts down) around 110c.
Minimum run time on many PC electronics at 100,000 hours at any temp below threshold. That's 4166 days, or 11 1/2 years...... sustained.

You can safely run a PC pretty "hot" below it's threshold and have quiet fans for quite a long time. Just important to stay below threshold.

Really it's just a matter of preference.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 25, 2019)

Rahnak said:


> Opening the side panel doesn't make a difference, so I don't think adding another fan would help much either. It's just a small fan that's too audible for my personal taste above 1000 rpm. Maybe if the case was on the ground, under the desk it wouldn't bother me.
> 
> 
> It's certainly a different experience than what I was used to with Intel. Just opening file explorer makes the cooler ramp up. And having Firefox open makes it "idle" between 40~50ºC, which is quite a considerable delta.
> Yesterday night I just closed everything except for hwinfo and I just sat here looking at the cpu temp and fan speed and wondering "What the heck are you even doing?".



Boost is aggressive; no way around it unless you want fixed freqs. You can try offsetting voltage. Mine is lowered 0.075v.

Make sure you're on 1.0.0.3ABBA and have the latest chipset drivers. Between Ryzen Balanced and Windows Balanced, just pick whichever works best.

Your best bet is just to have more cooling at your disposal, and also fans that ramp up the speed without increasing much noise or the pitch of the noise. I'm much happier on the U9S with 2 x A9s than I was with the D9L with 2 x A9s and 1 x A9x14. 

Mine idles at about 28-35, but as soon as I start actively doing stuff, it's up in the 40s and low 50s. But the A9s are quiet enough that I don't really hear the load.

The voltage is not the problem, because at 1.5V it's not putting much current through. When the load actually needs the bulk of the current, you'll see Vcore come down to the 1.3s if your board does not overvolt.

Another tip is to tie your case fans to something that doesn't spike if they are PWM controlled. My A12x25s initially were linked to either case temp (the speeds wouldn't ever come down again after the air inside got warm) or CPU temp (diabolical noise), so I put them on VRM instead. The CPU still gets the airflow it needs when it needs it, but the case fans don't spike on transient loads.


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## robot zombie (Oct 26, 2019)

Maybe coincidental, but I did have a CPU 'die' from heat once. IIRC it was an Athlon II X3... 450? I think... not that important. I can tell you the mobo was also cheap! The CPU fan died, but the machine kept running. For all I know, it was like that all day. I went to use it, not noticing. Start seeing signs of instability... at stock settings. After a little while, it crashes. After booting back up, I notice the fan isn't spinning. Not having a spare, I popped off the side panel and put a desk fan to it. Temperatures are amazing... stability is not. Not long after I finished the order for a replacement, it went down and never booted again. Fortunately everything went well once I got the replacement CPU and cooler in.

Much older tech at this point and those CPU's had lower throttle points... I think most mobos now will actually not even allow things to run without a CPU fan, though that may only be at boot. I know this to be true with the Strix B350-F - it will not boot without a CPU fan connected and spinning. In the case of my poor Athlon II, it seems the heat strain from just idling like that for however long, though clearly not enough to make it shut itself off, was enough to rapidly and severely degrade it.

Do I think that's relevant here? Probably not. Like I said, I think the protection is probably much better now. I have witnessed a couple of hard shutdowns from excess heat on my own Ryzen 2 system. Just saying that it apparently CAN happen!  Ideally, everything works like it's supposed to, but that doesn't mean you count on it to do everything for you. Think of it like a circuit breaker in your house. Just because you have one on a circuit doesn't mean you can overload the circuit and keep tripping the breaker. Eventually, your wiring and/or receptacles are going to overheat. It's still stressing everything every time it gets hot enough to trip. Or maybe for some inexplicable reason the breaker fails. Either way, your house still burns down, even though it was built not to and you're technically well-protected.


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## Bill_Bright (Oct 26, 2019)

killster1 said:


> because i asked if you think heat will kill the cpu doesnt mean you said that heat is going to kill the cpu.


Sorry. My bad.    I thought you were suggesting I did.


killster1 said:


> then i realized everything is designed to run at extreme temps


Ummm, sorry but that is not true at all. Electronics are designed to operate within a specified operating temperature range. The top end of that range may be extremely "warm" but should never cross the threshold into "hot" unless it is a heating element or something similar.


killster1 said:


> *of course heat will make solderpoints break and brittle*


Technically, this is true. But if this happens, it means (1) there was "excessive" heat that never should have occurred. (2) The wrong solder formula was used. (3) The solder was exposed to some unexpected "mechanical" stress. Or (4), it was a bad solder joint in the first place.



robot zombie said:


> Maybe coincidental, but I did have a CPU 'die' from heat once. IIRC it was an Athlon II X3... 450? I think... not that important.


But it is important as that gives us a clue as to the generation and release date of the CPU. And that series came out a decade ago. Today's processors have more sophisticated thermal protection features that likely react much more quickly too. But also, that CPU could have been faulty already. Hard to tell at this point and really, it would have to be examined under a microscope to see what damage actually occurred. 

A CPU can go from cool to overheated in just a few clock cycles. And when there's 3+ billion clock cycles per second, it does not take long after a fan seizes to overheat.


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## Rahnak (Oct 26, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Boost is aggressive; no way around it unless you want fixed freqs. You can try offsetting voltage. Mine is lowered 0.075v.
> 
> Make sure you're on 1.0.0.3ABBA and have the latest chipset drivers. Between Ryzen Balanced and Windows Balanced, just pick whichever works best.
> 
> ...


I am running 1.0.0.3ABBA and Ryzen High Performance power plan with latest drivers. Didn't notice any diference in temperatures/fan ramping up between high and balanced.

The main issue was the stock cooler just being too loud for my personal comfort. I just installed the Scythe Fuma 2 and now I can barely hear it. CPU fans at around ~450rpm and case fans ~850rpm. Idle temps are lower too. I may play around with voltages and stuff when I have more free time. I'd also like to tinker with the ram a little. But very pleased

Good tip for the case fans, I did just that.


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