# Rate My Build (Plan)



## FinneousPJ (Oct 2, 2020)

Hello,

I made a plan for an upcoming build. Please offer any suggestions or critiques you have.

*Mobo: *MSI MPG B550I GAMING EDGE WIFI; they're offering a rebate currently -> 145 €
*CPU: *Ryzen 5900X or 5700X, depending on the reviews & pricing 300-500 €
*RAM: *32 GB 3600 MT/s; Corsair Vengeance looks like good value 160 €
*GPU: *Probably the cheapest 6000 series with 12 GB RAM, depending on reviews 400 €?
*NVMe: *2x 1 TB in RAID-0 125 € (already have one drive) (note mobo must have 2x NVMe slot)
[*Storage: *6 TB HDD 150 € (probably will buy this later)]

*Case: *NZXT H210 99 €; just the right size IMO; I don't need the smart device from the i model
*Watercooling:*
Eisblock XPX CPU block
Probably Alphacool for the GPU as well
Alphacool Laing DDC 310 pump
Eisbecher 150 mm reservoir
NexXxoS XT45 Full Copper 240 mm "front" rad
NexXxoS ST30 Full Copper 120 mm "bottom" rad

Alphacool or Noctua fans

500 € for cooling
*
Budget target: *1500 €, max. 2000 €, in Finland
*Use case: *Work and gaming. Matlab, FEM modelling, VMs & newest games at 1440p 144 Hz
*Already have: *1x 1 TB NVMe, 850 W PSU (requires 210 mm space)

*Other boundary conditions: *Case must be sub 30 litres. Case must support at least 3x 120 mm radiators in any configuration, e.g. the H210 supports 240 mm front + 120 mm rear. One other case I found was Jonsbo C3 Plus, however it looks very airflow constrained in the front. I'm a bit worried it would starve the rad for air. On the plus side, it would support a µATX board while being sub 30 l.

Thanks!


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Oct 2, 2020)

I don't like the two Nvme setup on that board one is from the chipset the other is from the cpu it self.

you might be better off with an add in Nvme card for raid being directly connected to cpu.

you would end up running the video card 8x on pcie 4.0 should be fine.


----------



## INSTG8R (Oct 2, 2020)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> I don't like the two Nvme setup on that board one is from the chipset the other is from the cpu it self.
> 
> you might be better off with an add in Nvme card for raid being directly connected to cpu.
> 
> you would end up running the video card 8x on pcie 4.0 should be fine.


I agree with the RAID setup as well.


----------



## Calmmo (Oct 2, 2020)

Pretty sure every am4 mobo has only 1 nvme CPU slot.
The problem is b550 doesnt do chipset 4.0 so you're limiting your self to 3.0 which is very much on its way out with most manufacturers having 4.0 solutions out right now or about to.
I would switch to an x570 tomahawk @ 200euros instead.
Corsair kits tend to not play well with a lot of zen2 am4 boards also, at the very least if youre expecting to just toggle XMP and forget. I would go for Patriot with budget in mind or Gskill if you're willing to spend a bit little more.


----------



## FinneousPJ (Oct 2, 2020)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> I don't like the two Nvme setup on that board one is from the chipset the other is from the cpu it self.
> 
> you might be better off with an add in Nvme card for raid being directly connected to cpu.
> 
> you would end up running the video card 8x on pcie 4.0 should be fine.





INSTG8R said:


> I agree with the RAID setup as well.





Calmmo said:


> Pretty sure every am4 mobo has only 1 nvme CPU slot.
> The problem is b550 doesnt do chipset 4.0 so you're limiting your self to 3.0 which is very much on its way out with most manufacturers having 4.0 solutions out right now or about to.
> I would switch to an x570 tomahawk @ 200euros instead.
> Corsair kits tend to not play well with a lot of zen2 am4 boards also, at the very least if youre expecting to just toggle XMP and forget. I would go for Patriot with budget in mind or Gskill if you're willing to spend a bit little more.


Why does it matter if one slot is on the chipset and another on the CPU?

I'm not worried about PCIE speeds for the NVMe or GPU, it will not bottleneck the system.

What is the advantage of the X570 Tomahawk? Actually that seems to be full ATX and won't fit in the case.

Thanks for the memory suggestion, I will look at Patriot. I think the Vengeance kit was on the MSI QVL though.


----------



## Calmmo (Oct 2, 2020)

Oh didn't notice you were talking about SFF, still i would stick to x570 tho im not sure what the options are as i never even entrtained the thought so im not familiar with what's out there.
The difference is b550 only does 4.0 via CPU lanes (1st nvme, and x16 gpu slot only) and x570 does 4.0 on every slot on the board.


----------



## FinneousPJ (Oct 2, 2020)

Calmmo said:


> Oh didn't notice you were talking about SFF, still i would stick to x570 tho im not sure what the options are as i never even entrtained the thought so im not familiar with what's out there.
> The difference is b550 only does 4.0 via CPU lanes (1st nvme, and x16 gpu slot only) and x570 does 4.0 on every slot on the board.


I think it's been proven that PCIE3.0 x16 and even x8 does not bottleneck current systems. Therefore I'm not keen on paying extra for PCIE 4.0.


----------



## bug (Oct 2, 2020)

I think RAID0 for SSD is pointless, just like 16GB VRAM.

You may also want to look at AsRock mobos (no idea how they are priced where you buy).


----------



## FinneousPJ (Oct 2, 2020)

bug said:


> I think RAID0 for SSD is pointless, just like 16GB VRAM.
> 
> You may also want to look at AsRock mobos (no idea how they are priced where you buy).


Why pointless? 2x 1 TB is cheaper than 1x 2 TB, especially when I already own one 1 TB drive.


----------



## bug (Oct 2, 2020)

FinneousPJ said:


> Why pointless? 2x 1 TB is cheaper than 1x 2 TB, especially when I already own one 1 TB drive.


Because it improves performance in a limited number of scenarios, while ensuring if a drive craps out, you lose the data on both of them.

And if you really need the slightly faster sequential speeds, you can get those by letting one drive run at PCIe 4 speeds.


----------



## FinneousPJ (Oct 2, 2020)

bug said:


> Because it improves performance in a limited number of scenarios, while ensuring if a drive craps out, you lose the data on both of them.
> 
> And if you really need the slightly faster sequential speeds, you can get those by letting one drive run at PCIe 4 speeds.


I'm not doing it for speed, but for capacity. If I get any speed benefits that's a bonus.

Looking at the RAM options, we have e.g.
*G.Skill* 32GB (2 x 16GB) Ripjaws V 151 €
*G.Skill* 32GB (2 x 16GB) Sniper X 158 €
*G.Skill* 32GB (2 x 16GB) Trident Z Neo 180 €

No Patriot at my favourite store.


----------



## bug (Oct 2, 2020)

FinneousPJ said:


> I'm not doing it for speed, but for capacity. If I get any speed benefits that's a bonus.


What's the problem with running independent drives? Your sig says you're mostly running Linux, you can mount independent drives however you like. I always mount at least /home separately so I can reinstall without losing data.


----------



## FinneousPJ (Oct 2, 2020)

bug said:


> What's the problem with running independent drives? Your sig says you're mostly running Linux, you can mount independent drives however you like. I always mount at least /home separately so I can reinstall without losing data.


Well yeah but mounting root on a 1 TB drive is a waste lol


----------



## Vayra86 (Oct 2, 2020)

Bit of a fantasy build, half the parts ain't even out yet.

And this matters because it won't be the first Ryzen gen coming up that warrants the use of specific boards for optimal performance, or specific RAM.


----------



## FinneousPJ (Oct 2, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> Bit of a fantasy build, half the parts ain't even out yet.
> 
> And this matters because it won't be the first Ryzen gen coming up that warrants the use of specific boards for optimal performance, or specific RAM.


Great point but as an engineer I do like to make plans


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Oct 3, 2020)

Calmmo said:


> Oh didn't notice you were talking about SFF, still i would stick to x570 tho im not sure what the options are as i never even entrtained the thought so im not familiar with what's out there.
> The difference is b550 only does 4.0 via CPU lanes (1st nvme, and x16 gpu slot only) and x570 does 4.0 on every slot on the board.



There is only one Mirco ATX The Asrock X570M pro 4 mirco-atx board. Seems pretty nice if he's willing to compromise a little bit.
I would buy a separate NVMe add in card, which will add to the cost. Might be able to still close to that case size maybe in a cube like one.


----------



## bug (Oct 3, 2020)

FinneousPJ said:


> Well yeah but mounting root on a 1 TB drive is a waste lol


Why? You don't have to mount the whole TB, you can split that up over two or more partitions.


----------



## Hellfire (Oct 3, 2020)

bug said:


> Why? You don't have to mount the whole TB, you can split that up over two or more partitions.



TBH I raid0 both of my NVME drives for the same reason. 

I created a 4TB Raid, partitioned off 250GB for OS only, then the other 3750GB for program installs as one lump of storage. makes life so much easier and fun, 

However, I run a X570 board so the 4x PCI lanes between the chipset and CPU provide enough bandwidth to cover the NVME on the chipset and other devices.

@FinneousPJ you may (and could) in certain circumstances bottleneck with PCIe 3.0

The Chipset to the CPU has 4x PCIe lanes at 3.0 this is 3940MB of bandwidth. That's enough for one NVME drive but you also have everything else running through it, your NIC, USB, SATA. SO yes... with all the devices, under some situations could cause a bottleneck. ie moving from NIC to NVME or from NVME to SATA drives. any situation causing both drives to spin up could cause it to slow down.

Whereas if you had PCI 4.0 the link speed between the chipset and the CPU would be double the 3940MB of speed, giving you overhead for other chipset based devices.


----------



## bug (Oct 3, 2020)

Hellfire said:


> TBH I raid0 both of my NVME drives for the same reason.
> 
> I created a 4TB Raid, partitioned off 250GB for OS only, then the other 3750GB for program installs as one lump of storage. makes life so much easier and fun,


Only if you don't know how to manage drives. Linux is very flexible about this and even Windows has learned junction points for some time already.
I mean, sure, i understand it's nice to lump the drives together. But only until one of them craps out you you lose the data on both. You can mitigate that with backups, but not everybody does that and backups mean additional costs/drives anyway.


----------



## Hellfire (Oct 3, 2020)

bug said:


> Only if you don't know how to manage drives. Linux is very flexible about this and even Windows has learned junction points for some time already.
> I mean, sure, i understand it's nice to lump the drives together. But only until one of them craps out you you lose the data on both. You can mitigate that with backups, but not everybody does that and backups mean additional costs/drives anyway.



Well for me, it was the fact 4TB of NVME/SSD storage were not easily available. I know perfectly well how to manage drives and have used JP's in the past but honestly, Raid is a perfectly legitimate way for setting up storage, Hell we're still using it often enough in our corporate environments lol.

Raid provides a nice clean and easy to manage storage. Also, no offence, if people aren't backing up data from RAID (like you mentioned) what makes you think they'd know how to use NTFS Junction Points

If people don't have backups of data... well that's their problem. I use Raid0 because I don't need redundancy on the drives. I have no sympathy for someone who uses RAID and then moans if it fails or needs rebuilding.


----------



## bug (Oct 3, 2020)

Hellfire said:


> Well for me, it was the fact 4TB of NVME/SSD storage were not easily available. I know perfectly well how to manage drives and have used JP's in the past but honestly, Raid is a perfectly legitimate way for setting up storage, Hell we're still using it often enough in our corporate environments lol.
> 
> Raid provides a nice clean and easy to manage storage. Also, no offence, if people aren't backing up data from RAID (like you mentioned) what makes you think they'd know how to use NTFS Junction Points
> 
> If people don't have backups of data... well that's their problem. I use Raid0 because I don't need redundancy on the drives. I have no sympathy for someone who uses RAID and then moans if it fails or needs rebuilding.


Well, the thing is many people use RAID0 simply because they on the internet that read it's faster. And they don't know anything else.
Like you said, RAID0 is only a convenience when it comes to SSDs. So I'd never go for that setup. I'm just trying to make sure those who, understand the risks and that there's no speed to be gained.


----------



## Hellfire (Oct 3, 2020)

bug said:


> Well, the thing is many people use RAID0 simply because they on the internet that read it's faster. And they don't know anything else.
> Like you said, RAID0 is only a convenience when it comes to SSDs. So I'd never go for that setup. I'm just trying to make sure those who, understand the risks and that there's no speed to be gained.



Aye NVME there are next to none real world performance increases of RAID. Sure benchmarks give bigger numbers but nothing uses those speeds, except maybe moving files.


----------



## bug (Oct 3, 2020)

Hellfire said:


> Aye NVME there are next to none real world performance increases of RAID. Sure benchmarks give bigger numbers but nothing uses those speeds, except maybe moving files.


Even then, you'd have to be moving them from/to something equally fast.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 3, 2020)

Why a B550 board? Why not X570 or whatever X tier chipset comes with the new CPUs? Since you are already looking at things that arent available yet.


----------



## bug (Oct 3, 2020)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Why a B550 board? Why not X570 or whatever X tier chipset comes with the new CPUs? Since you are already looking at things that arent available yet.


I don't think there are new chipsets incoming. What would you add to X570 anyway? I think he picked B550 because he wants miniITX.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Oct 3, 2020)

I was wrong there is Two Micro atx x570 !
colorful makes one too!


bug said:


> I don't think there are new chipsets incoming. What would you add to X570 anyway? I think he picked B550 because he wants miniITX.



He can still get close to that size of the case he said with Micro-atx.
SilverStone Precision Series PS15 SST-PS15B-G
said it was 26L he said under 30L


----------



## John Naylor (Oct 4, 2020)

1.  5900x is 12 core ...  MatLAB recommends 4 GB per core for Polyspace (48GB) .  If that's gonna be part of your MatLAB usage, might want more RAM

2.  Kinda  hard to rate a build list with contains multiple component for which no performance data is available

3.  RAID on the desktop ?   Samsung will tell you that they don't support nor recommend RAID 0.   We test RAID every couple of years to examine potential for benefit in our workstations, (Consulting engineering firm) and at home (tasks same as office + Gamin).  Other than benchmarks have not found any applications which benefit.  When we broke the array, performance increased slightly ... as has been the case going on 20 years.    See quotes from independent test sites at end of post

4.  4 x 8GB or 2 x 16GB ?

5.  Not liking the B series MoBo ....or the ITX choice.. There are multiple ITX choices tho
B550 - newegg currently stocks 1 ... (1) Asus / (2) AsRock (1) MSI and (1) Gigglebyte
X570 - newegg currently stocks 3 ... (1) Asus / (2) AsRock and (1) Gigglebyte

6.  I wouldn't try and squeeze all that into just 30 liters ... won't be fun to work in  ...  keep case interior cool will likely mean significant noise

7.  Anything over 8 GB is wasted at 1440p

8.  Take the Noctual Fans off a Noctua cooler at same rpm and temps drop a whopping 6.3C


			Phanteks PH-F140(XP, SP, SP_LED) Fans: Testing -  Phanteks PH-F140 (XP, SP, SP_LED) Case Fan Review - Page 3
		
















						First 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
					

140 mm fans from Noctua, Phanteks, and Xigmatek battle in our latest fan roundup with one emerging as a clear winner in both thermal performance and acoustics. May 21, 2013 by Lawrence Lee Last month we staged an epic shoot-out among some popular 120 mm fans. Some great sounding fans emerged but...




					silentpcreview.com
				




_"In our last 120 mm fan roundup we lamented the fact that many of the best sounding fans faltered in our thermal test, posing our readership with a vexing question: Which is more important, acoustics or cooling performance? For this first batch of 140 mm fans, there is no such dilemma.  The Phanteks PH-F140HP/TS is the clear winner in every respect. It edged out the new Noctuas every step of the way, delivering the best overall results of any fan we’ve tested thus far. To top it off, it had cleanest, smoothest sound of all the new fans in this roundup. If we had to start from scratch, this might be our new reference model.



_

This is copied from an old RAID thread .. would not be surprised if half thelionks are dead

=================================









						Storage Reference Guide | StorageReview.com - Storage Reviews
					

Enterprise Storage   	What is Intel Optane DC Persistent Memory? 	NetApp MAX Data Solution Brief 	Best practices for flash, Veeam and NAS storage 	Overview of contain




					faq.storagereview.com
				



SR Gaming DriveMark 2002    Single Drive = 519 IO/sec    RAID 0 = 529 IO/sec






						Western Digital's Raptors in RAID-0: Are two drives better than one?
					






					www.anandtech.com
				



*Western Digital's Raptors in RAID-0: Are two drives better than one?*
"If you haven't gotten the hint by now, we'll spell it out for you: there is no place, and no need for a RAID-0 array on a desktop computer. The real world performance increases are negligible at best and the reduction in reliability, thanks to a halving of the mean time between failure, makes RAID-0 far from worth it on the desktop."






						Techware Labs - Articles - RAID and Gaming Performance
					

Techware Labs - Latest reviews of computer hardware, guides, and industry news.



					www.techwarelabs.com
				



_".....we did not see an increase in FPS through its use. Load times for levels and games was significantly reduced utilizing the Raid controller and array. As we stated we do not expect that the majority of gamers are willing to purchase greater than 4 drives and a controller for this kind of setup. While onboard Raid is an option available to many users you should be aware that using onboard Raid will mean the consumption of CPU time for this task and thus a reduction in performance that may actually lead to worse FPS. An add-on controller will always be the best option until they integrate discreet Raid controllers with their own memory into consumer level motherboards."_






						RAID-0 proved ineffective at boosting desktop application/game performance
					

Clicky, check out the bar graph towards the bottom of Eugene's post. SR will be posting a pretty comprehensive article on RAID, hopefully soon. The graph is a selection from the results obtained for that forthcoming article.  Even running _four_ WD740GDs in RAID-0 is not enough to match the...




					www.hardforum.com
				



_However, many have tried to justify/overlook those shortcomings by simply saying "It's faster." Anyone who does this is wrong, wasting their money, and buying into hype. Nothing more._






						The Best Mattresses, Pillows & Bedding...Reviewed | Suite 101
					

Getting a good night's sleep isn't always easy. Trust us to help you find the best mattresses, pillows, sheets, blankets to ensure your next rest is supremely comfortable.




					computer-drives-storage.suite101.com
				



_The real-world performance benefits possible in a single-user PC situation is not a given for most people, because the benefits rely on multiple independent, simultaneous requests. One person running most desktop applications may not see a big payback in performance because they are not written to do asynchronous I/O to disks. Understanding this can help avoid disappointment._



			http://www.scs-myung.com/v2/index.php?view=article&id=76&tmpl=component&print=1&page=&Itemid=55&option=com_content
		

_What about performance? This, we suspect, is the primary reason why so many users doggedly pursue the RAID 0 "holy grail." This inevitably leads to dissapointment by those that notice little or no performance gain.....As stated above, first person shooters rarely benefit from RAID 0.__ Frame rates will almost certainly not improve, as they are determined by your video card and processor above all else. In fact, theoretically your FPS frame rate may decrease, since many low-cost RAID controllers (anything made by Highpoint at the tiem of this writing, and most cards from Promise) implement RAID in software, so the process of splitting and combining data across your drives is done by your CPU, which could better be utilized by your game. That said, the CPU overhead of RAID0 is minimal on high-performance processors._

Even the HD manufacturers limit RAID's advantages to very specific applications and non of them involves gaming:


			http://westerndigital.com/en/products/raid/
		


PC Mark Vantage  (PCMark Vantage is a PC benchmark for Windows offering one-click complete performance testing. Includes 8 PC tests covering photos, video, gaming, music, communication and productivity. )


			https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/WGDBjbFsUe56TKhQFwTJTW-650-80.png
		

=============================================================================

Other than instances where you are moving tens of gigabytes of media files, or capturing uncompressed AVIs for FCAT analysis.,you have nothing of significance to gain other than headaches witha RAID array ... Our last effort examining the viability of RAID includes a pair of 256 GB Samsung Pro's in RAID 0 and a pair of Seagate SSHDs in RAID 1..... During the 3 month RAID test, booting failed 6-7 times.  We had to reboot to BIOS, check the Array status and find one of the SSDs wasn't being detected, simply restarting the box "solved the problem" most times.  In other instances, when that didn't work, we had to restore BIOS to defaults, reboot, then shut down, go to BIOS, load the saved OC profile and then booting worked again.   We called Samsung who offered no help as they said they neither support nor recommend RAID on their products.

The RAID 1 array which has all the office data files, would lose a drive at least every other week.  We broke the array, and used a freeware utility to mirror the drive to the other several times per day... no more issues.


----------



## FinneousPJ (Oct 5, 2020)

Wow, lots of discussion on the RAID lol. Who knew it was such a hot topic. Rest assured, I am going for the convenience of it, and I'm fully aware of the risks.



DemonicRyzen666 said:


> I was wrong there is Two Micro atx x570 !
> colorful makes one too!
> 
> 
> ...



True, thanks for the recommendation. That case looks pretty impressive for the price!

As for X570, the cheapest mini-ITX board is 249 €, so I'm not seeing the value there. Do you think it's worth 100 € over B550?



John Naylor said:


> 1.  5900x is 12 core ...  MatLAB recommends 4 GB per core for Polyspace (48GB) .  If that's gonna be part of your MatLAB usage, might want more RAM
> 
> 2.  Kinda  hard to rate a build list with contains multiple component for which no performance data is available
> 
> ...



1. Thank you, I might even go for 64 GB if it's not too expensive (which it doesn't look like ATM).

2. True enough, but thanks for humouring me 

3. Yeah, as has been discussed, it's just more convenient than managing separate disks IMO.

4. 2x 16 GB definitely.

5. Why not?

6. Could be bad... I'm confident though!

7. Today yes, but I would like to keep the system for 2-3 years again.

8. Looks like they're comparing 15 mm noctua to 25 mm phanteks? Anyway I'm not set on Noctua if I can find better fans. Your review is from 2013 and is probably out of date though.

As for the RAID, your links seem to critique performance claims. I'm not trying to gain performance by using the RAID-0.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Oct 5, 2020)

FinneousPJ said:


> True, thanks for the recommendation. That case looks pretty impressive for the price!
> 
> As for X570, the cheapest mini-ITX board is 249 €, so I'm not seeing the value there. Do you think it's worth 100 € over B550?



I would say stability of it being out longer, more bugs fixed. Should give it the best reason.
But like I said. The bootable add in card would add to cost unless you can find it bundled some how or a cheaper case like this one Fractal Design Focus G Mini Black MicroATX Mid Tower Computer Case

These here card are what I'm talking about. They're all above $100 here in the usa.
ASROCK HYPER QUAD M.2 CARD Bootable M.2 RAID Support
ASUS Hyper M.2 x16 PCIe 3.0 x4 Expansion Card V2 supports 4 NVMe M.2.
GIGABYTE AORUS Gen4 AIC Adaptor GC-4XM2G4, Easy One Click RAID, Full PCIe 4.0 Design, 4 x PCIe 4.0/3.0 M.2 Slots
THey have 4 M.2 slots which is a bit much for your need., but they are pcie 4.0


----------



## bug (Oct 5, 2020)

FinneousPJ said:


> Wow, lots of discussion on the RAID lol. Who knew it was such a hot topic. Rest assured, I am going for the convenience of it, and I'm fully aware of the risks.


Well, there's little to discuss about RAID actually. I was just checking whether you know what you're getting into.
With both M.2 slots taken I hope you also have an upgrade plan in place.


----------



## Vya Domus (Oct 5, 2020)

FinneousPJ said:


> 1. Thank you, I might even go for 64 GB if it's not too expensive (which it doesn't look like ATM).



Unless you have an actual use case for that much memory I don't see the point in speeding that much for a high speed 64 GB kit.


----------



## FinneousPJ (Oct 6, 2020)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> I would say stability of it being out longer, more bugs fixed. Should give it the best reason.
> But like I said. The bootable add in card would add to cost unless you can find it bundled some how or a cheaper case like this one Fractal Design Focus G Mini Black MicroATX Mid Tower Computer Case
> 
> These here card are what I'm talking about. They're all above $100 here in the usa.
> ...



There are also cheaper ones e.g. http://akasa.co.uk/update.php?tpl=p...&type_sub=RGB LED Lighting&model=AK-PCCM2P-03

It doesn't mention whether it's bootable though. Any idea if it could not be bootable? I would think it's a mobo feature rather than add-in card feature.



bug said:


> Well, there's little to discuss about RAID actually. I was just checking whether you know what you're getting into.
> With both M.2 slots taken I hope you also have an upgrade plan in place.



Thanks. Not really, I think 2 TB of M.2 space will suffice for the lifetime of the system. Of course I would still have SATA ports available.



Vya Domus said:


> Unless you have an actual use case for that much memory I don't see the point in speeding that much for a high speed 64 GB kit.



Yeah, I will definitely take a closer look before spending.


----------



## phanbuey (Oct 6, 2020)

check out metalfish c1 case





						Amazon.com: Metalfish DIY Aluminum+Transparent Acrylic Mini ITX Computer Case (C1 240 Water-Cooled Case): Computers & Accessories
					

Buy Metalfish DIY Aluminum+Transparent Acrylic Mini ITX Computer Case (C1 240 Water-Cooled Case): Computer Cases - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com
				




microatx - very compact.


----------



## FinneousPJ (Oct 9, 2020)

So the new CPUs were announced 



			https://www.techpowerup.com/img/NraK6n5mwNJE9Xu6.jpg
		


Damn, no 5700. I feel like the best value units are coming later...


----------



## FinneousPJ (Oct 31, 2020)

Updates on the plan

*Mobo: *Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (full ATX) 190 €
*CPU: *Ryzen 5600X, feels a bit weird upgrading from 8 to 6 cores, but looks like this will be a lot faster single threaded and noticeably faster multithreaded 319 €
*RAM: *32 GB 3600 MT/s;  180 €
*GPU: *I might squeeze in the 6800 non-XT, but probably I should wait for the 12 GB models
*NVMe: *2x 1 TB in RAID-0 125 € (already have one drive) (note mobo must have 2x NVMe slot)
[*Storage: *6 TB HDD 150 € (probably will buy this later)]

*Case: *Phanteks P300A, a bit bigger than I would like, but probably it's OK
*Watercooling:*
Eisblock XPX CPU block
Probably Alphacool for the GPU as well
Alphacool Laing DDC 310 pump
Eisbecher 150 mm reservoir
NexXxoS XT45 Full Copper 240 mm "front" rad
NexXxoS ST30 Full Copper 120 mm "rear" rad

Alphacool or Noctua fans

500 € for cooling

* Budget target: *1500 €, max. 2000 €, in Finland
*Use case: *Work and gaming. Matlab, FEM modelling, VMs & newest games at 1440p 144 Hz
*Already have: *1x 1 TB NVMe, 850 W PSU

*Other boundary conditions: *I woud prefer the case be sub 30 litres. P300A is ca. 36 litres. Case must support at least 3x 120 mm radiators in any configuration, e.g. the H210 supports 240 mm front + 120 mm rear. One other case I found was Jonsbo C3 Plus, however it looks very airflow constrained in the front. I'm a bit worried it would starve the rad for air. On the plus side, it would support a µATX board while being sub 30 l.


----------



## dgianstefani (Oct 31, 2020)

Noctua NF-A12x25 fans.
5800x

Sliger Cerberus Case.


----------



## FinneousPJ (Oct 31, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> Sliger Cerberus Case.



Looks like there is no distributor in Finland. It's also super expensive.


----------



## dgianstefani (Oct 31, 2020)

You get what you pay for, made in USA highly optimised space. https://www.density.sk/product/cerberus-x#main-color - For EU


----------



## X71200 (Oct 31, 2020)

NVMe RAID is dumb, you're increasing latency and you're only increasing your sequentials and not 4k. One of the main points of NVMe was already getting high sequentials so you don't have need for RAID... and that was it, RAID died there. You can already get easily 3000 out of some el cheapo NVMe. Just get a single fast NVMe or do just a bunch of disks if you want big SSD space on the cheap.


----------



## FinneousPJ (Oct 31, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> You get what you pay for, made in USA highly optimised space. https://www.density.sk/product/cerberus-x#main-color - For EU


I highly doubt a system with a 200 € cheaper CPU/GPU in a Sliger case is better than a 200 € more expensive CPU/GPU in a 200 € less expensive case...


----------



## X71200 (Oct 31, 2020)

That case is big time snake oil. The last thing you want is a piece of sheet metal made in the U.S taxed costing you double the price, I pay for the U.S tax in my primary guitars and I play my Japanese guitars too. A box of steel could be made in anywhere in decent quality EASILY.


----------



## FinneousPJ (Oct 31, 2020)

X71200 said:


> NVMe RAID is dumb, you're increasing latency and you're only increasing your sequentials and not 4k. One of the main points of NVMe was already getting high sequentials so you don't have need for RAID... and that was it, RAID died there. You can already get easily 3000 out of some el cheapo NVMe. Just get a single fast NVMe or do just a bunch of disks if you want big SSD space on the cheap.


I can't believe how passionate people get about this... but once again, I'm not doing the RAID for performance, I'm doing it for the ease of use.


----------



## X71200 (Oct 31, 2020)

You're not really getting more ease of use out of 2 drives. 2 drives is meant more for JBOD, where RAID actually makes sense still is harddrives and lots of them for data redundancy - aka higher pattern RAIDs. Putting NVMe to RAID actually makes things worse, like you get awful results that impact the drives when you RAID certain NVMe drives.


----------



## FinneousPJ (Oct 31, 2020)

X71200 said:


> You're not really getting more ease of use out of 2 drives. 2 drives is meant more for JBOD, where RAID actually makes sense still is harddrives and lots of them for data redundancy - aka higher pattern RAIDs. Putting NVMe to RAID actually makes things worse, like you get awful results that impact the drives when you RAID certain NVMe drives.


What does it make worse?


----------



## X71200 (Oct 31, 2020)

Almost everything, you're paying more to get two equally as good drives and their firmware are not built for being used as multiple. It's like putting 6 tires on a truck that goes well with 4. Sure, you get more overhead but at the cost of the truck having more potential tidbits.

Get one expensive drive and a significantly cheaper one to store your colder data on. That would be the best idea.


----------



## FinneousPJ (Oct 31, 2020)

X71200 said:


> Almost everything, you're paying more to get two equally as good drives and their firmware are not built for being used as multiple. It's like putting 6 tires on a truck that goes well with 4. Sure, you get more overhead but at the cost of the truck having more potential tidbits.
> 
> Get one expensive drive and a significantly cheaper one to store your colder data on. That would be the best idea.


At least for me locally the minimum price per GB is at 1 TB. Therefore the cheapest solution is 2x 1 TB over 1x 2 TB.


----------



## dgianstefani (Oct 31, 2020)

FinneousPJ said:


> I highly doubt a system with a 200 € cheaper CPU/GPU in a Sliger case is better than a 200 € more expensive CPU/GPU in a 200 € less expensive case...


A case that you'll keep for the rest of your life, compared to components that will be obsolete in 2 years time.



X71200 said:


> That case is big time snake oil. The last thing you want is a piece of sheet metal made in the U.S taxed costing you double the price, I pay for the U.S tax in my primary guitars and I play my Japanese guitars too. A box of steel could be made in anywhere in decent quality EASILY.


Ah yes, someone who hasn't used the case in question giving their opinion, so valuable.


----------



## X71200 (Oct 31, 2020)

I didn't suggest you to get one drive, please read properly. I was recommending a fast 1 TB and a slower 1 TB. The catch is the difference between cold and hot data.

You're also building a horrible loop for a 6 core and a BASE Navi, that includes Monsta thickness, bad rads which only perform the best with high RPM fans and putting equally as badly priced Noctua fans on them. A Liquid Freezer II with Arctic P12 fans is all you will ever need.

That is a horrid list.



dgianstefani said:


> A case that you'll keep for the rest of your life, compared to components that will be obsolete in 2 years time.
> 
> Ah yes, someone who hasn't used the case in question giving their opinion, so valuable.



And the MIC cases? Seemingly a U.S made case could be used for a lifetime even after times changing and case becoming pretty much useless? 

Yeah, I should definitely have the overpriced case in question to get some clue.


----------



## dgianstefani (Oct 31, 2020)

X71200 said:


> I didn't suggest you to get one drive, please read properly. I was recommending a fast 1 TB and a slower 1 TB. The catch is the difference between cold and hot data.
> 
> You're also building a horrible loop for a 6 core and a BASE Navi, that includes Monsta thickness, bad rads which only perform the best with high RPM fans and putting equally as badly priced Noctua fans on them. A Liquid Freezer II with Arctic P12 fans is all you will ever need.
> 
> ...


Yes, all the times that have changed. Like ATX being the standard for 30 years now. 

>spending 600 euros of custom loop hardware on a 6 core and mid range GPU, then crying about a 200 euro case lmfao.


----------



## X71200 (Oct 31, 2020)

ATX might have been the standard for long, but people don't even re-use a lot of older cases anymore because they're simply not adapted to modern times. You don't know what the future will bring, therefore you can't tell how relevant the case will be after some 5-10 years. The other cases will be just as relevant.

He's not crying or anything, but I've seen the custom loop and called him on it.


----------



## FinneousPJ (Oct 31, 2020)

You guys are quite toxic. If you can't be civil and helpful, please leave. "You are building a horrible loop" is a completely useless comment if you're not going to explain why and how to fix it.


----------



## X71200 (Oct 31, 2020)

I'm not toxic, I already explained why it was horrible. Maybe try actually reading into the posts. The fix is ditching it and getting the Liquid Freezer II spoken about.


----------



## FinneousPJ (Oct 31, 2020)

X71200 said:


> I'm not toxic, I already explained why it was horrible. Maybe try actually reading into the posts. The fix is ditching it and getting the Liquid Freezer II spoken about.


And how does the liquid freezer help cool my GPU?


----------



## X71200 (Oct 31, 2020)

The base Navi will have no problems being cooled under the stock cooler. Heck, you could use the Wraith on the new 6-core.


----------



## FinneousPJ (Oct 31, 2020)

X71200 said:


> The base Navi will have no problems being cooled under the stock cooler. Heck, you could use the Wraith on the new 6-core.


Yeah, that's not helpful lol. I'm asking about how to make a great steak and you're saying I should make pizza. That does not help.


----------



## X71200 (Oct 31, 2020)

You want good cooling on the GPU? Get a card with a big custom cooler. The designs are already in the drawing. As for the CPU, it will pull what, 50-100W? Monsta design is bad for acoustics / performance. You were told to ditch the Noctua fans for cheaper, better fans too. These were all explained by another user in a very long post in fact. However, you listened to none of it and went on with your bad choices. Did I miss something?


----------



## FinneousPJ (Oct 31, 2020)

X71200 said:


> You want good cooling on the GPU? Get a card with a big custom cooler. The designs are already in the drawing. As for the CPU, it will pull what, 50-100W? Monsta design is bad for acoustics / performance. You were told to ditch the Noctua fans for cheaper, better fans too. These were all explained by another user in a very long post in fact. However, you listened to none of it and went on with your bad choices. Did I miss something?


No, I want water cooling on the GPU. What fans are better for the 45 mm rad and based on what?


----------



## X71200 (Oct 31, 2020)

I could pull up a rad efficiency chart according to how very thick rads perform better with higher pressure fans, and how you don't need them. They're actually a bad choice for most applications. You want HW Labs rads. Common sense tells you need more pressure for air to go through thicker density fins, resulting in more noise and worse performance at lower RPMs. You seem to be dead set on water cooling a mid - high end card alongside of a mid range CPU and I'm not going to help you with that.


----------



## FinneousPJ (Oct 31, 2020)

X71200 said:


> I could pull up a rad efficiency chart according to how very thick rads perform better with higher pressure fans, and how you don't need them. They're actually a bad choice for most applications. You want HW Labs rads. Common sense tells you need more pressure for air to go through thicker density fins, resulting in more noise and worse performance at lower RPMs. You seem to be dead set on water cooling a mid - high end card alongside of a mid range CPU and I'm not going to help you with that.


Noctua fans are high pressure though. At least on the higher side. But ok thanks for your help.

EDIT: now that I'm on the computer, let me get some facts out

EK Vardar

*Performance characteristics:*
- Max Air Flow: 63 CFM = 107 m³/h
- Static Pressure: 2.24mm H2O = 22 Pa
- Sleeved cable length: 300 mm
- Noise Level: 29.5 dBA 

Noctua NF-A12x25

Airflow
102,1  m³/h

Acoustical noise
22,6 dB(A)

Static pressure
2,34 mm H₂O


----------



## FinneousPJ (Nov 5, 2020)

I secured the order for the 5600X and X570 TUF Gaming. There was no availability for the water cooling parts I wanted, so I will probably go with another solution for now. But the critical components are now on order!


----------



## X71200 (Nov 5, 2020)

Just use stock really. The TUF, while a decent board, not the best in its genre but would work with that CPU anyways. Yeah, you're looking at the less common WC stuff. The 5600X should be efficient enough to go on stock for a while or even work decently. If you want to really push it though, maybe get a good AIO. Even a solid air cooler would do, actually.


----------



## FinneousPJ (Nov 5, 2020)

X71200 said:


> Just use stock really. The TUF, while a decent board, not the best in its genre but would work with that CPU anyways. Yeah, you're looking at the less common WC stuff. The 5600X should be efficient enough to go on stock for a while or even work decently. If you want to really push it though, maybe get a good AIO. Even a solid air cooler would do, actually.


Maybe I will grab the Artic Freezer II 120 mm since everyone is singing its praises. I will transfer to custom WC later.

I looked at quite a few X570 reviews, and the TUF Gaming seemed like a winner for 200 EUR. What would you have picked?


----------



## X71200 (Nov 5, 2020)

Probably the Tomahawk as I've done it myself. TUF is not bad, just that there are better options tbf.

I wouldn't bother with a 120 AIO regardless of rad thickness. At least get the 240, actually, grab the 280. 140 fans so it would be even quieter than the 240.

You may not even want the custom WC with that cooler, maybe do push-pull if you want to overkill.


----------



## FinneousPJ (Nov 5, 2020)

X71200 said:


> Probably the Tomahawk as I've done it myself. TUF is not bad, just that there are better options tbf.
> 
> I wouldn't bother with a 120 AIO regardless of rad thickness. At least get the 240, actually, grab the 280. 140 fans so it would be even quieter than the 240.
> 
> You may not even want the custom WC with that cooler, maybe do push-pull if you want to overkill.


Probably I will want custom water, because the GPU water cooling is the main point.


----------



## FinneousPJ (Nov 29, 2020)

At least it's not hard to resist the temptation to buy a 6800 rather than 6700, when it looks like 6800 will not be available this year.



Spoiler



Actually I did succumb and place the order but I cancelled it now, a couple days later. There was no confirmation.


----------

