# What does a router do to enhance an internet users experience?



## happita (Aug 10, 2011)

I have 2 computers in my house, 1 that I use and 1 that my brother uses. My computer is the only system that has access to internet which is on the 1st floor. My brother's PC is in the basement with no internet. It is really annoying whenever I come home from work and I want to do a few things on my computer only to see my brother doing his thing on my PC. I just wanted to know what a router is able to achieve with a single user's setup and a 2 user setup. 

*Scenario 1*: I buy a router for the sole purpose of my own rig. Is there any benefit at all to using it exclusively for myself? All I have is a SURFboard modem hooked up to a coaxial cable with an ISP that gives me 15MB down and 3MB up.

*Scenario 2*: I buy the router for both computers. Where do I hook this thing up at? Better to hook it up in my room or his room? If I play a game and latency/ping is critical to the game at hand, will splitting the connection between 2 computers somehow slow me down while he is surfing/downloading; will my ping/latency be affected whether it be intermittently, once in a while spikes, etc..?

I'm juggling these things around in my head because I want to know whether it is worth investing ~$50 for a router to help curb my brother from constantly coming to my computer for internet access.


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## ChristTheGreat (Aug 10, 2011)

if the modem is next to you, Put the router next to your computer, with a RJ45 cable.

if you can't get a cable to your brother computer, buy a Wireless router (like WRT160N I know this one is a good one), and buy a Wireless card (or USB) for your brother's computer.

if not, routeur will give: like a bigger protection to computers, since you are not 100% opened to the Web. Means when someone is trying to access your Internet IP, it will hit the Router (Which is like a small firewall, not a pro one). I can't say much about Windows 7 firewall, but it's more risky to use directly the Internet IP on a computer than having a router between. Some Modem are router also, I know here Bell got some, but I always use a router..

it will allow also to let the 2 computer share file between.


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## happita (Aug 10, 2011)

ChristTheGreat said:


> if the modem is next to you, Put the router next to your computer, with a RJ45 cable.
> 
> if you can't get a cable to your brother computer, buy a Wireless router (like WRT160N I know this one is a good one), and buy a Wireless card (or USB) for your brother's computer.
> 
> ...



My computer and my brother's computer are nowhere near each other.

So what your saying is that I have to get 2 routers? 1 next to my computer and another 1 next to my brother's *AND* a wireless card? That's a lotta money right now for me


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## ChristTheGreat (Aug 10, 2011)

Nah, 1 router, which will be next to your modem..

But what is the distance between? one floor? and what kind of floor? this is something that must be consider...


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## Jetster (Aug 10, 2011)

1) Your nuts to not have a router. It protects you from outside unwanted connections (no software firewalls don't work as well) 

2) It will only slow you down if your brother has a porn / torrent addiction

Hard wire it to your comp. Put him on a wireless.


Some routers even do bandwidth shaping so you could limit his connection.  Really its a no brainier/ a must have and will not effect ping/latency


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## freaksavior (Aug 10, 2011)

happita said:


> My computer and my brother's computer are nowhere near each other.
> 
> So what your saying is that I have to get 2 routers? 1 next to my computer and another 1 next to my brother's *AND* a wireless card? That's a lotta money right now for me



No. 

One router. One wireless card. 

Depending how old your brother is, tell him if he wants to keep getting online he needs to help pay for this since he is the only one benefiting from it. 

All you need is a router and the network card. 

it depends on how big your house/apartment is BUT 

D-Link DIR-655 Wireless Broadband Router Xtreme N ... is a great router. If your house isn't very big
Linksys WRT54GL Wireless Broadband Router 802.11b/... and mod it with dd-wrt


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## ChristTheGreat (Aug 10, 2011)

*porn / torrent addiction*




Yeah, surfing is not slowing the internet


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## happita (Aug 10, 2011)

I'm on the 1st floor and he is in the basement AND both computers are on the opposite side of the house, mine is on 1 corner, his is on the other.
It is a hardwood floor on 1st floor and the basement has a drop ceiling.



Jetster said:


> 1) Your nuts to not have a router. It protects you from outside unwanted connections (no software firewalls don't work as well)
> 
> 2) It will only slow you down if your brother has a porn / torrent addiction
> 
> ...



1) Why am I nuts? I have NEVER gotten virus'd to the point of needing a reformat or anything serious. Nothing that a simple spyware/malware scan didn't get rid of.


Bandwidth shaping seems interesting, I am definitely going to look for that feature.


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## erocker (Aug 10, 2011)

happita said:


> All I have is a SURFboard modem



The Motorola Surfboard modem I have also works as a router. It would be useless adding another. The Surfboard has all the options a normal router does. To access it, the username is: admin and the password is: motorola.

About security.. meh. I've run machines in DMZ mode for years without a problem. Of course many will believe the hype about security through marketing.


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## happita (Aug 10, 2011)

erocker said:


> About security.. meh. I've run machines in DMZ mode for years without a problem. Of course many will believe the hype about security through marketing.



Yep, that's how I feel. I have Malware bytes, SUPERAntiSpyware, and Microsoft Security Essentials. So far, nothing catastrophic has happened and I hope it stays that way.


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## Jetster (Aug 10, 2011)

If your not concerned about security then why 3 programs? Why not free up the system? 

Really then it just if you want both hooked up and one will be wireless then you need a Wireless router


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Aug 10, 2011)

security can be sorted entirely by being a wise clicker


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## happita (Aug 10, 2011)

Jetster said:


> If your not concerned about security then why 3 programs? Why not free up the system?
> 
> Really then it just if you want both hooked up and one will be wireless then you need a router



I do not need EXTRA security measures to make me feel more at ease is what I'm saying. I am comfortable at the level I am at and have had no problems thus far using what I have.

I am going to try erocker's suggestion and try to get my Surfboard to work as a router. I am pretty sure that my motherboard came with an integrated 10/100 network card. I have to see, if that's the case, do I even need to purchase anything at all? Or do I need to purchase a NIC card and put it into my brother's machine?


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## erocker (Aug 10, 2011)

happita said:


> I am going to try erocker's suggestion and try to get my Surfboard to work as a router. I am pretty sure that my motherboard came with an integrated 10/100 network card. I have to see, if that's the case, do I even need to purchase anything at all?



One thing I do for security reasons is not use wireless. I have four outputs on my Surfboard and all of my machines are hooked up with cables. Though I mentioned it earlier you don't need to use DMZ mode, I suppose it can be a bit excessive of _not_ thinking about security, but to each their own. All the port forwarding options are there if you need them anyways. Of course it is also good practice to change your password from "motorola" to something else. Both of your motherboards have a network connector that I'm pretty positive on.


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## newtekie1 (Aug 10, 2011)

happita said:


> I am going to try erocker's suggestion and try to get my Surfboard to work as a router.



Not all SURFboard modems can act as a router, in fact most of the ones given away by the cable companies can't.  The SB5101 us probably the most common modem given away by cable companies, at least it is in my area, and it is just a straight modem. The SB6120, SBG6580, and SBG901 can be used as a router.


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## ChristTheGreat (Aug 10, 2011)

erocker said:


> One thing I do for security reasons is not use wireless. I have four outputs on my Surfboard and all of my machines are hooked up with cables. Though I mentioned it earlier you don't need to use DMZ mode, I suppose it can be a bit excessive of _not_ thinking about security, but to each their own. All the port forwarding options are there if you need them anyways. Of course it is also good practice to change your password from "motorola" to something else. Both of your motherboards have a network connector that I'm pretty positive on.



For security reason? I use to have my WRT160N configured with WPA2 encryption, No issue here.. also at my job we also have a wireless connection for the shop computer, which is fine since if we are moving computer, you don't need to pass other cable. WPA2 with hidden wireless..

In a house, or appartment, somtimes you can't pass cable, so that's why wireless is a good way. I'm using my computer in wireless with an Asus-N13 (USB).

I way prefer being behind a router, and open the port I need than be accessible from my Internet IP..

Anyway, for him, I think the best solution is wireless...


Also, some people runs DMZ, fine. That is not the point. Being accessible from your Internet IP directly, it's less secure... that's is the only point, it's not marketing. I'm 10)% if you ask a real hacker, hacking or send a virus to a computer, one that has WIndows + Anti-virus with his Internet IP vs behing a router, it will be much more easy... if you could only see how many port are opened without a firewall...

http://www.whatsmyip.org/ports/

and it's not just about port, Windows has security Issue you know.. it's not safe at 100%, there is nothing perfectly safe. Someone accessing your IP will hit rotuer instead of your computer..


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## erocker (Aug 10, 2011)

Not just security reasons, performance reasons and the fact I don't need to install wireless cards into my systems.


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## Crap Daddy (Aug 10, 2011)

If this can help, I'm having 2 machines, one modem, one router and one wireless card. The router, D-Link Dir-600 is connected to the modem, the first machine is hooked directly to the router through cable. The second machine is aprox 8 meters away, has the card installed and a little antenna in another room and has two 70cm thick walls between its position and the router. Everything is going great, I can play in one room and my son in the other with no ping or lag problems. I have 20Mb down and 2.5Mb. up.


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## FordGT90Concept (Aug 10, 2011)

I have my router as close to the center of the house as possible then then have everything that isn't next to it either run off an unmanaged switch and a long cable run (~55 feet) or run off the router's wireless antenna.


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## ChristTheGreat (Aug 11, 2011)

erocker said:


> Not just security reasons, performance reasons and the fact I don't need to install wireless cards into my systems.




LAN sharing, yeah wireless will be crap vs wired, but on the internet, with my 150mbps, I still have full download, low ping...

I would do the same, havign wired all computer, but sometimes you just can't... I wouldn't like to have my wired on the ground or tape to the ceiling... Anyway, if he can, he should go with wired, instead, wireless is the solution


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## THRiLL KiLL (Aug 11, 2011)

erocker said:


> About security.. meh. I've run machines in DMZ mode for years without a problem



i really hope that you have some sort of software firewall for the machines on the dmz. If not, all a person would need is an ip address, and welcome to the botnet, enjoy your stay


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## erocker (Aug 11, 2011)

THRiLL KiLL said:


> i really hope that you have some sort of software firewall for the machines on the dmz. If not, all a person would need is an ip address, and welcome to the botnet, enjoy your stay



3+ years of living on the edge. Don't feel bad for me. Of course there's a software firewall on all of my Windows machines, plus one or two other measures.


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## happita (Aug 11, 2011)

So the router will only be beneficial to me for both computers I see. And from what I read, the only way getting a router will be beneficial for a single system is that it lets me have that extra layer of security before a hacker gets into my computer vs. getting into the router first then the computer.
So, no speed increase with the use of a good quality wireless router? Like for example, my ISP enables me to get a max of 15MB down, but it never even scratches the surface of that. The best DL speed I have ever gotten is a steady 1.6MB.
The concensus seems like so then:
Scenario 1 = out
Scenario 2 = in


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## erocker (Aug 11, 2011)

happita said:


> So the router will only be beneficial to me for both computers I see. And from what I read, the only way getting a router will be beneficial for a single system is that it lets me have that extra layer of security before a hacker gets into my computer vs. getting into the router first then the computer.
> So, no speed increase with the use of a good quality wireless router? Like for example, my ISP enables me to get a max of 15MB down, but it never even scratches the surface of that. The best DL speed I have ever gotten is a steady 1.6MB.
> The concensus seems like so then:
> Scenario 1 = out
> Scenario 2 = in



Does your cable modem have more than one network cable out? You don't need a router for a single computer. No you won't get any speed increase. 15MB down actually means 15 mega bits and you're pulling 1.6 megabytes so you're getting what you paid for.


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## happita (Aug 11, 2011)

erocker said:


> Does your cable modem have more than one network cable out? You don't need a router for a single computer. No you won't get any speed increase. 15MB down actually means 15 mega bits and you're pulling 1.6 megabytes so you're getting what you paid for.



Nope, only 1 ethernet jack on the modem itself.


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## erocker (Aug 11, 2011)

happita said:


> Nope, only 1 ethernet jack on the modem itself.



Well.. if you have more than one computer that you want hooked up to your internet, you need a router. Wireless or wired is up to you.


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## Mussels (Aug 11, 2011)

just get a router with shaping, or lock the wireless speeds to a slow setting (2Mb or something) so that he cant choke the net connection and screw up your gaming.


seriously, i'm surprised you only have one device online. i've got two PC's, two smartphones, two laptops (ones housemates) three VOIP phones and a wifi printer, none of which would work out without a router. i've not seen someone using a plain old modem in years.


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## happita (Aug 11, 2011)

Well, we can't all be as leet as you Mussels 

I'm probably going to get a router with the bandwidth shaping feature, that way like you said I can limit his speeds. 
Any recommendations now as far as routers go? Preferably in the $50 range and is able to have strong signals to be able to penetrate through walls and a floor.


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## ChristTheGreat (Aug 11, 2011)

happita said:


> So the router will only be beneficial to me for both computers I see. And from what I read, the only way getting a router will be beneficial for a single system is that it lets me have that extra layer of security before a hacker gets into my computer vs. getting into the router first then the computer.
> So, no speed increase with the use of a good quality wireless router? Like for example, my ISP enables me to get a max of 15MB down, but it never even scratches the surface of that. The best DL speed I have ever gotten is a steady 1.6MB.
> The concensus seems like so then:
> Scenario 1 = out
> Scenario 2 = in





Your ISP offer you 15mbits, which is the Bandwidth.. in megabits per second. When you download, the speed you see is in megabytes..

1 bytes = 8 bits, so 15mbits / 8 = 1.875mb/s, which you said you have 1.6mb/s, so it is good... to have 15mb/s, you would need 120mbits  You download a the right speed


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## 1freedude (Aug 11, 2011)

happita said:


> .
> Any recommendations now as far as routers go? Preferably in the $50 range and is able to have strong signals to be able to penetrate through walls and a floor.



Have you used Craigslist.org before?  Great deals, if you look often enough.  Otherwise, I prefer dlink out of familiarity.  The dir-615 would be a great starter router.

Edit.....this one is definitely better, gb LAN connection
Recertified: Linksys E2000-RM Gigabit Advanced Wir...


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## happita (Aug 11, 2011)

What about this Linksys: Linksys WRT54GL Wireless Broadband Router 802.11b/...
I see no other router as popular as this one, not to mention there's a sticky in this section on the WRT54GL itself 
And it is well within my budget. The only question is that do I have the power to limit the amount of network speed possible on the other PC and reserve most of it for my own computer? That is the real selling point for me.


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## Mussels (Aug 11, 2011)

happita said:


> What about this Linksys: Linksys WRT54GL Wireless Broadband Router 802.11b/...
> I see no other router as popular as this one, not to mention there's a sticky in this section on the WRT54GL itself
> And it is well within my budget. The only question is that do I have the power to limit the amount of network speed possible on the other PC and reserve most of it for my own computer? That is the real selling point for me.



i dont think it can on stock firmware, but modded it can. personally however, i'd recommend you a router with the feature at stock - you've never used a router before, so why throw yoou in the deep end?


the router i have cost me $40 (on special) and its a TP-link TL-WR941N - wifi N 300Mb, shaping/bandwidth control for wired and wireless (i make it auto assign my PC's a certain range of IP addresses which get full speed, then the rest are all shaped to 512/128 for anyone else who connects)


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## puccki (Aug 11, 2011)

I'm so envious of you guys, china's network speed is always so slow
i download a file only 70-80kb/s


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## qubit (Aug 11, 2011)

erocker said:


> The Motorola Surfboard modem I have also works as a router. It would be useless adding another. The Surfboard has all the options a normal router does. To access it, the username is: admin and the password is: motorola.
> 
> About security.. meh. I've run machines in DMZ mode for years without a problem. Of course many will believe the hype about security through marketing.



Or you don't _realize_ there is a problem. Hacks often go completely undetected. How do you think all these botnets made from user's computers all over the world are created?


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## newtekie1 (Aug 11, 2011)

happita said:


> What about this Linksys: Linksys WRT54GL Wireless Broadband Router 802.11b/...
> I see no other router as popular as this one, not to mention there's a sticky in this section on the WRT54GL itself
> And it is well within my budget. The only question is that do I have the power to limit the amount of network speed possible on the other PC and reserve most of it for my own computer? That is the real selling point for me.



You need a 3rd party firmware to limit the bandwidth with that router.  Though I now recommend an E1000 router in place of the WRT54GL.  It has better hardware, including wireless N and a faster CPU for higher thoughput between the WAN and LAN connections.  Plus you can pick them up from Buy.com for under $40.



qubit said:


> Or you don't _realize_ there is a problem. Hacks often go completely undetected. How do you think all these botnets made from user's computers all over the world are created?



Most of the computers in botnets are created by the user downloading and executing a malicious piece of code.  It certainly isn't true all a person needs is an IP and they can put your PC in a botnet, at least not if your PC is fully updated and has a software firewall and AV running, as well as UAC enabled and passworded accounts.


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## Batou1986 (Aug 11, 2011)

I have a WNR3500L its an awesome open source router,  ive had to reset it once with it running dd-wrt for about a year an a half now.


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## Jstn7477 (Aug 11, 2011)

Yeah, I'd find a newer router than the WRT54GL. That router has been around for years and there are much better solutions.

As far as routers go, they are used to:
-Share an internet connection among devices
-Create home networks where computers can share files, print to a networked printer, etc.
-Sort of protect you from some threats (they are in no way a total solution for anything)
-Create a wireless network (in the case of a wireless router) for mobile devices or laptops.

I'd maybe look for a router that supports DD-WRT (look in their router guide at dd-wrt.com) so if you become more knowledgeable about routers later on, you can flash it and get rid of the typically bad stock firmware.


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## qubit (Aug 11, 2011)

newtekie1 said:


> Most of the computers in botnets are created by the user downloading and executing a malicious piece of code.  It certainly isn't true all a person needs is an IP and they can put your PC in a botnet, at least not if your PC is fully updated and has a software firewall and AV running, as well as UAC enabled and passworded accounts.



Yes, running dodgy attachments probably is the number one way to get infected. However, leave a PC online long enough with a public IP address and it will get nailed, fully patched or not - and that's with doing nothing else, just sitting there visible on the internet, let alone accessing a site with drive-by malware on it.

Think about it, Microsoft has just released 15 important updates for Windows 7 (which I haven't installed yet lol). That's a lot of holes and the hackers might well know about some or all of them before they are released, downloaded and applied. And even then, Windows isn't bullet-proof, running a/v software or not.

No, a good hardware firewall is a primary a component of PC security. I'd say the most important one of all.


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## twilyth (Aug 11, 2011)

I think anti-malware software is essential too.  I have Norton, Avira, Malwarebytes and MSE installed, but then I do go to some dodgy sites and may or may not download certain questionable files.

I'm not going to argue the point though, I just want to share something that relates to what qubit said about leaving a rig exposed on the net.

I had a VM I was using that briefly needed internet access.  So I opened up the ethernet port for it.  It just had XP with SP3 I think.  No AV or anything else, just whatever "protection" was built into XP.  So I'm admitting in advance that this isn't a fair comparison.

I come back to the rig later and I see that my desktop is all screwed up.  Taskbar is now on the left side, other shit is moved around and I have to fight with the cursor.  It didn't occur to me right away because we're talking about mere hours of exposure, but eventually I realized that the VM had been hijacked.

I thought this was hilarious.  I tried to imagine the frustration of the script kiddie who got into it and couldn't go anywhere, do anything and couldn't even find any software to steal.  

Once I got what I needed I closed the port and that was the end of any strange behavior.  I did take a few precautions to be safe but otherwise, that was the end of it.


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## erocker (Aug 11, 2011)

qubit said:


> Or you don't _realize_ there is a problem. Hacks often go completely undetected. How do you think all these botnets made from user's computers all over the world are created?



No, but go ahead and install any security measures you see fit.  If you honestly believe that these security measures can't be worked around. I hope it doesn't pain you too much.


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## qubit (Aug 11, 2011)

erocker said:


> No, but go ahead and install any security measures you see fit.  If you honestly believe that these security measures can't be worked around. I hope it doesn't pain you too much.



Nothing's perfect, obviously, but there's a massive difference between putting a high barrier between your PC and the hackers and just leaving it wide open with a bullseye painted on it.

And as home users, you and me aren't such attractive targets anyway, so if the usual opportunistic attacks don't work, then they'll go bug someone else. Hence, the security measures I outlined will protect you very well indeed. Now, if you're a bank however...


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## Mussels (Aug 11, 2011)

i've certainly been hit by worm attacks when i was DMZ'd (which is the same as no router)


nod32 let them slip past and really screw with my network (any PC with full access file shares got hosed and attempted to infect other networked machines), while kaspersky was all ''HOLY SHIT! NETWORK ATTAAAAAAAACK!" from WAN (forwarded ports) and LAN IP's


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## qubit (Aug 11, 2011)

Mussels said:


> i've certainly been hit by worm attacks when i was DMZ'd (which is the same as no router)
> 
> 
> nod32 let them slip past and really screw with my network (any PC with full access file shares got hosed and attempted to infect other networked machines), while kaspersky was all ''HOLY SHIT! NETWORK ATTAAAAAAAACK!" from WAN (forwarded ports) and LAN IP's



Yeah, I can imagine K freaking out like that.  Tell me, did it actually stop the attack though?


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## erocker (Aug 11, 2011)

qubit said:


> Nothing's perfect, obviously, but there's a massive difference between putting a high barrier between your PC and the hackers and just leaving it wide open with a bullseye painted on it.
> 
> And as home users, you and me aren't such attractive targets anyway, so if the usual opportunistic attacks don't work, then they'll go bug someone else. Hence, the security measures I outlined will protect you very well indeed. Now, if you're a bank however...



Yes qubit, I know what security measures to use if I choose to do so. I use them at work afterall.


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## brandonwh64 (Aug 11, 2011)

Invest in some of these. My friend uses them with no issue (same set as URL below). All he has done is plugged his router into the wall jack next to his PC and he uses the other ones in rooms were other PCs are.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833156283


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## newtekie1 (Aug 11, 2011)

qubit said:


> However, leave a PC online long enough with a public IP address and it will get nailed, fully patched or not - and that's with doing nothing else, just sitting there visible on the internet, let alone accessing a site with drive-by malware on it.
> 
> Think about it, Microsoft has just released 15 important updates for Windows 7 (which I haven't installed yet lol). That's a lot of holes and the hackers might well know about some or all of them before they are released, downloaded and applied. And even then, Windows isn't bullet-proof, running a/v software or not.
> 
> No, a good hardware firewall is a primary a component of PC security. I'd say the most important one of all.



Not true at all.  What do the patches address?  Most of them address vulnerabilities that allow malicious code to be executed once the user executes a seemingling legit piece of software or visits a webpage.  In terms of being vulnerable from a network attack, those days are long gone.  With the windows firewall pretty much stopping all traffic on all ports anyway, the need for a hardware firewall isn't a important as you think.


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## erocker (Aug 11, 2011)

newtekie1 said:


> windows firewall pretty much stopping all traffic on all ports anyway



Thank you! So true, and in many cases I find Windows firewall to be overly aggressive.


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## qubit (Aug 11, 2011)

newtekie1 said:


> Not true at all.  What do the patches address?  Most of them address vulnerabilities that allow malicious code to be executed once the user executes a seemingling legit piece of software or visits a webpage.  In terms of being vulnerable from a network attack, those days are long gone.  With the windows firewall pretty much stopping all traffic on all ports anyway, the need for a hardware firewall isn't a important as you think.





erocker said:


> Thank you! So true, and in many cases I find Windows firewall to be overly aggressive.



Ok, whatever keeps you happy guys. I hope your machines don't get nailed and I can't explain these basic security principles any more clearly, which should be obvious to anybody who's competent with computers. I don't want this to go round and round in circles, so I'm happy to agree to disagree and leave it at that.


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## erocker (Aug 11, 2011)

qubit said:


> I can't explain these basic security principles any more clearly, which should be obvious to anybody who's competent with computers. I don't want this to go round and round in circles, so I'm happy to agree to disagree and leave it at that.



People who already know don't need it explained to them. Agree to disagree, sure.


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## Jetster (Aug 11, 2011)

Wow, this thread is awesome. Good point counter point. Anyhow I think your little brother or who ever is still going to keep putting his hands on your keyboard until you hook him up with some internet. You have options now go for it

puccki: Welcome


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## Mussels (Aug 12, 2011)

qubit said:


> Yeah, I can imagine K freaking out like that.  Tell me, did it actually stop the attack though?



yes, kaspersky did block the attack. the only machine not infected on the network was my two machines running KIS.

AVG, avast, MSE and nod32 all lost every single .exe file in folders shared via windows shares. there was a looooot of rage that day, and a bit of OH SHIT DISCONNECT from me.


short version: router good, dont DMZ, use good AV.


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## ensabrenoir (Aug 12, 2011)

Excellent thread.  Using kis thinking about switching to eset.Using a net gear really just to connect to my copier. Time for an upgrade. Thanks to all for the upgrade in my router knowledge.


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