# The Official Thermal Interface Material thread



## Kissamies (Feb 3, 2021)

No need for another single thread, let's use this for questions and suggestions.


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## P4-630 (Feb 3, 2021)

So _what is_ the best TIM in February 2021? (not talking about liquid metal)


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## ThrashZone (Feb 3, 2021)

Hi,
Might be nice to add a poll 
NT-H1
NT-H2
MX-4 2019 
.
.
.
.


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## kapone32 (Feb 3, 2021)

I plan on getting some Mx-5 I will let you guys know.


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## duskw4lker (Feb 3, 2021)

Thermalright TFX is awesome .

I used it on my Omen 2019 (i7-9750h, rtx 2070 max-q), first time/try repasting an expensive laptop after years of having a low end pc. lowered my idle temps (speedshift 0, so all cores working at max) by 5°C and max temps by 10°-15°C. a little difficult to apply at first without heating it up, but after you are done, great core uniformity temps, and no pumpout effect


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## micropage7 (Feb 3, 2021)

still use Deepcool Z9, maybe after it i may use mx4 or noctua stuff


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## freeagent (Feb 3, 2021)

Another vote for TFX and TF8 as well.


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## Hankieroseman (Feb 10, 2021)

Bought Corsair XTM50 today. I'll post results when I get my upgrade finished.


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## dgianstefani (Feb 10, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> So _what is_ the best TIM in February 2021? (not talking about liquid metal)


Kpx or Cryonaut extreme.


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## sneekypeet (Feb 10, 2021)

I think something like this could be much cooler if TPU came together and sent someone 50 or 100 pastes, and they run tests and chart the results. 

I tend to keep boxed TIM tubes, so I can donate a few if someone is willing to take on endless hours of testing.


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## trickson (Feb 10, 2021)

Chloe Price said:


> No need for another single thread, let's use this for questions and suggestions.


Only ONE I use AS5 (Artic Sliver 5) Nothing else works better.


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## delshay (Feb 10, 2021)

trickson said:


> Only ONE I use AS5 (Artic Sliver 5) Nothing else works better.



Lab test many years ago has shown it contains "real particles of silver".   ..It's the thermal paste I use here.

Real Silver is a very good conductor of heat.


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## nguyen (Feb 10, 2021)

For CPU (High mounting pressure): Kingpin KPx, Kryonaut, Noctua NT-H2, Gelid GC-Extreme
For GPU (Medium mounting pressure): Conductonaut, Kingpin KPx
For Laptop (Low mounting pressure): Kingpin KPx, Thermalright TF-X


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## Hyderz (Feb 10, 2021)

im using arctic silver 5 since 10 years and haven't been looking at other brands, but i think i might try kingpin KPX
heard good things about the kpx


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## Kissamies (Feb 12, 2021)

Hyderz said:


> im using arctic silver 5 since 10 years and haven't been looking at other brands, but i think i might try kingpin KPX
> heard good things about the kpx


That was the shit here in Finland about 15 years ago, nobody here uses that anymore. MX-4 has been my thing for the last few years, and when I've delidded an Intel GPU, I've used Coollaboratory Ultra or Pro. Works also with GPU dies.


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## GerKNG (Feb 12, 2021)

i used tons of paste for over 20 GPUs and at least 30-40 CPUs.

Arctic MX4 is absolute trash above any little 65W CPU
at around 200W of Load and on any Die (GPU) it deteriorates within 2 weeks.

Kryonaut can have some mediocre batches where you have liquid sandpaper.

the Only Paste that never failed on me was GC Extreme and NT H2.


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## John Naylor (Feb 12, 2021)

It's not like there's monthly changes .... other than Thermal Grizzly landscape.... not much has changed in a decade.

Generally in past ... 

Shin Etsu G751 for CPU / MoBo Blocks.... matches the best thermally and only $4
Gelid Extreme on GPU Blocks  .... for the longer usability to Hit GPU + Memory + VRMs,  

But nowadays Kryonaut / Kryonaut Extreme has come down in price ...  just check the web site ... one batch had become contaminated and the batch No. is on the site.  If ya get it, they will exchange.


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## kapone32 (Feb 12, 2021)

GerKNG said:


> i used tons of paste for over 20 GPUs and at least 30-40 CPUs.
> 
> Arctic MX4 is absolute trash above any little 65W CPU
> at around 200W of Load and on any Die (GPU) it deteriorates within 2 weeks.
> ...


I started with MX4 then I had Gelid. After that I discovered NTH1 and used that exclusively until NTH2 was released which is 2 to 4 degrees cooler than NTH1.


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## Kissamies (Feb 13, 2021)

Personally I don't wanna pay that 1-3EUR extra for a slight difference... MX4 is more than enough for generic usage.


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## Deleted member 205776 (Feb 13, 2021)

NT-H2 has been serving me very well. Applied a pea sized dot in the middle of my 3900X, then screwed in my NH-D15S. Took it off to see how it spread. Completely covered the CPU, didn't spill over the edges. Thermal performance is fantastic.


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## PooPipeBoy (Feb 13, 2021)

I preach all day about GD900 from Aliexpress being the bargain thermal paste, but opinions don't really cut it, so instead I did a shootout comparison to let the results speak for themselves.

So I tested three different affordable thermal pastes: 1) Arctic Silver 5, 2) Noctua NT-H1 and 3) GD900 from Aliexpress. I tested them in that particular order. Since it's summer here and it gets hotter as the day goes on, the GD900 was actually running in the hottest ambient conditions at 30C. I measured ambient on my first run with Arctic Silver at 28C, so ambient temp was increasing by about 1C from run-to-run. Keep that in mind when you read the results.

Testbench was a Xeon X5460 with a 120W TDP overclocked to 3.8GHz at 1.35V, which was the hottest-running LGA771 processor I could find. Cooling solution is a Coolermaster Hyper T4. I recorded the temperature readings with RealTemp after running the CPU stress test in MSI Kombustor for about one minute.



Spoiler: Thermal test results - AS5 vs NT-H1 vs GD900





 Arctic Silver 5 = 86C max



 Noctua NT-H1 = 89C max



 GD900 = 84C max



GD900 is about US$6 for a 30G tube. No degradation issues to date even after using it for well over a year now. This stuff is damn good


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## freeagent (Feb 13, 2021)

I think AS5 is pretty good. Yeah its two days older than dirt and its capacitive, messy, and I can go on a little more..

But applying it is an art, and every CPU/HSF combo is unique. You cant really treat it like other pastes because it is not other pastes.. It works great on bare corez and IHS..

You need to experiment with your mount more than a few times to get it right.. and repeatable. And when you do get it right it is awesome stuff. Its pretty easy to get it too thin, or too thick, at which point its an insulator..   

If you go with AS5 get a big tube so you can play with it a few times with no cares. The experience you gain working with it will help with higher end pastes, like *cough* TF8 and TFX *cough*

Maybe I'm just crazy..  Probably..

The 200 hour cure time does suck. You cant really accelerate it either, its just a placebo.. needs that sintered goodness.. But yeah.. I've moved on.. and I don't really miss it after using it for 10 years 

I should try that MX4 stuff and see what the hubbub is about.. haven't used it yet..


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## delshay (Feb 13, 2021)

nguyen said:


> For CPU (High mounting pressure): Kingpin KPx, Kryonaut, Noctua NT-H2, Gelid GC-Extreme
> For GPU (Medium mounting pressure): Conductonaut, Kingpin KPx
> For Laptop (Low mounting pressure): Kingpin KPx, Thermalright TF-X



When it comes to LM most users point to Conductonaut, but that not my choice here.

"Phobya" is the LM of my choice. It's the way it bonds to the surface.


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## PooPipeBoy (Feb 13, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I think AS5 is pretty good. Yeah its two days older than dirt and its capacitive, messy, and I can go on a little more..
> 
> But applying it is an art, and every CPU/HSF combo is unique. You cant really treat it like other pastes because it is not other pastes.. It works great on bare corez and IHS..
> 
> ...



I don't get too scientific about thermal pastes. If you can't squirt it onto a CPU and get good results on the first try then it's not worth being patient with it, either it works or not.

The Noctua NT-H1 was a real disappointment. Very easy to spread but the syringe nozzle makes application difficult and it doesn't perform very well. Honestly I should probably throw it in the bin.

I have used Arctic MX-4 previously and thought it was good. The GD900 is far more affordable and performs better, but I'd use MX-4 if I were forced to use something else.


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## FireFox (Feb 13, 2021)

I've been using ARCTIC MX-4 for a long time, works pretty well.


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## abactuon (Feb 13, 2021)

Thermal Paste Round-up: 85 Products Tested​








						Best Thermal Paste for CPUs 2022: 90 Pastes Tested and Ranked
					

The right thermal paste will improve performance.




					www.tomshardware.com


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## P4-630 (Feb 13, 2021)

abactuon said:


> Thermal Paste Round-up: 85 Products Tested​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats from 2017, however it still has some value and they tested 85 products.

This roundup is from 2019:








						Guru3D Thermal Paste Roundup 2019
					

Thermal paste is an often-overlooked part of most computer setups. You can simply use the pre-applied stuff, or the thermal paste that comes with your motherboard, and still get reasonable processor t... AIO cooling for i9 9900K@5.0 GHz 1.35V




					www.guru3d.com


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## Hyderz (Feb 13, 2021)

how often do you guys re apply the thermal paste say for AiO cooler?


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## Borc (Feb 13, 2021)

It depends a bit on the CPU if it's a direct Die or Heatspreader CPU. From my experience with a direct Die (laptop) CPU the best traditional paste in the market with the best performance is Thermalright TFX but also the worst in application. A bit down but also really good are the likes of Noctua NT-HT2, Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme and CoolerMaster MasterGel Maker Nano. Some of them may be struggling in the long term, there are reports that the Coolermaster and Kyronaut can dry out over 80 degrees and lose performance. Laptop CPUs can reach 100 degrees, this needs to be considered.


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## P4-630 (Feb 13, 2021)

Borc said:


> there are reports that the Coolermaster and Kyronaut can dry out over 80 degrees and lose performance.



Got any links to share?


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## Borc (Feb 13, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> Got any links to share?



Different notebooks threads like this...






						TechnologyGuide
					

Thank you for visiting the TechnologyGuide network. Unfortunately, these forums are no longer active. We extend a heartfelt thank you to the entire community for their steadfast support—it is really you, our readers, that drove




					forum.notebookreview.com
				








						TechnologyGuide
					

Thank you for visiting the TechnologyGuide network. Unfortunately, these forums are no longer active. We extend a heartfelt thank you to the entire community for their steadfast support—it is really you, our readers, that drove




					forum.notebookreview.com
				




The Kyronaut is well known for this problematic, if you use google you should find a lot of reports. 

edit, or this: https://www.overclock.net/threads/kryonaut-drying-out.1723590/


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## P4-630 (Feb 13, 2021)

Borc said:


> Different notebooks threads like this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So nothing from official sources or reviewers.

I use kryonaut myself (not the extreme though), no issues.


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## Borc (Feb 13, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> So nothing from official sources or reviewers.


 
It basically is impossible to test for a typical reviewer who can test each paste some hours at best and also most thermal paste tests are based on CPUs with proper cooling, the dry out effect is not really a problem there. You have to search for user reports with real long time experience. Here is another thread for you: 




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Alienware/comments/9n6tkh


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## P4-630 (Feb 13, 2021)

Borc said:


> It basically is impossible to test for a typical reviewer who can test each paste some hours at best and also most thermal paste tests are based on CPUs with proper cooling, the dry out effect is not really a problem there. You have to search for user reports with real long time experience. Here is another thread for you:
> 
> 
> 
> ...















						Thermal Grizzly High Performance Cooling Solutions - Kryonaut
					

Hochwertige Wärmeleitlösungen für Computerchips




					www.thermal-grizzly.com


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## Borc (Feb 13, 2021)

Their page confirms this paste is ok up to 80 degrees without drying out process. Yes it's widely known the problematic starts over 80 degrees. On a laptop this can be problematic.


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## P4-630 (Feb 13, 2021)

Borc said:


> Their page confirms this paste is ok up to 80 degrees without drying out process. Yes it's widely known the problematic starts over 80 degrees. On a laptop this can be problematic.



Usually the drying out shouldn't be an issue as long as there are no cracks in it.


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## freeagent (Feb 13, 2021)

That's why I never bought a tube. I read that a couple of years ago, mainly from the laptop guys. Some of the first TF8 reviews I read were from the laptop guys and it was their words that inspired me to try it.


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## pantherx12 (Feb 17, 2021)

My liquid metal from AliExpress arrived. 

Read the smaller print for a chuckle.


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## StormLightningSL (Feb 17, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> So _what is_ the best TIM in February 2021? (not talking about liquid metal)



Why not talk about Liquid Metal if it is so effective? What don't I know? A few $$ for a lifetime (say 5 years of CPU life) of peace should be worth it, imho.




P4-630 said:


> Thats from 2017, however it still has some value and they tested 85 products.
> 
> This roundup is from 2019:
> 
> ...



Again I see that the Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut tops the list with a big margin of almost 5-6* C. If it's so good, why go for something less effective? I checked the price on my local Amazon, and it's like $15 for a 1 gram syringe. Doesn't sound fatal to me. Could probably use it in my CPU and GPU both and have enough left over for emergencies.

I'm sure there must be a reason for not using such a product exclusively, so if someone can help me out here, I'd appreciate the information!


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## dgianstefani (Feb 17, 2021)

The other thing is the smallest Conductonaut syringe is typically enough for approximately five applications. So that $15 is more like $3 per application. Peanuts in a budget for your average $1-2k PC, and probably one of the cheapest ways to shave 5°C off a cooling system with enough dissipation capacity to actually get rid of that heat. That's another point, unless you actually have the radiator/heatsink capacity and efficient means of getting the heat to that, before getting it out of the case, LM/Conductonaut only removes the Chip/coldplate bottleneck. This is probably one of the reasons some people have 10°C+ improvements, and others only see changes within margin of error.

One of the most common mistakes people make is using *way *too much LM on application. You should have _as little as possible while maintaining full coverage _applied to *both *the chip and the coldplate. You want a chip sized coating on the coldplate in the right spot, and a full coverage coating on the chip.

You can't simply use the typical thermal paste application method, putting a dab on in the middle or an X or whatever. You have to apply it thinly and evenly across both surfaces to get ideal results.

It's tricky to achieve this, as it has a very high surface tension and tends to ball up, refusing to spread, especially on a recently cleaned surface, it doesn't behave like a typical liquid or paste.

The way i've had most success after tens of applications, is to use the syringe with the needle tip included in the kit, put a small ball on each surface, then use the included bud stick things to spread, before using the syringe again, in suction to remove any excess puddles of the stuff. This results in a very thin layer applied evenly.


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## lolokaa (Feb 17, 2021)

Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut has very satisfactory testing results from a variety of independent sources.


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## freeagent (Feb 19, 2021)

So.. I took my cooler off today and when I went to apply my paste the line got thin just before the halfway mark lol. So in a pinch I went to the shop a few blocks away and picked up tube of AS5 lol.. haven’t used this stuff in a few years! Because I’m not entirely sure exactly where the hotspots are I just spread it with a spatula for the very first time lol. It’s really not that bad.. pretty good actually, only a c or two off the mark vs the TFX I was using before. But I don’t want to start throwing numbers around just yet. My kid is using the computer right now so I will play with it later. I also removed an intake fan and two exhaust for a new total of 3 in 1 out. It’s probably still moist


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## lolokaa (Feb 19, 2021)

Spoiler: Thermal results - Tom's Hardware (High pressure, water cooling)











Spoiler: Thermal results - Air cooling









Robert Hallock from AMD on application method: Reddit comment by Robert
Application method comparison video

Highly informative talk on Thermal paste in general: Gamers Nexus Steve and Roman "Der8auer" - Timestamp on "bubbles" misconception, shortly followed by "curing" explained

TL;DR:
Application method 'X' pattern performs slightly better across all CPUs compared to 'dot' and others.
Bubbles are a myth -- there won't be any from proper installation.
The "curing" concept is misunderstood, and in reality is just the thermal paste slightly further properly spreading over time as heat rises.


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## Kissamies (Feb 19, 2021)

Personally I don't use liquid metal between heatspreaders and heatsinks/blocks. Only on GPU/CPU dies.


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## delshay (Feb 23, 2021)

nguyen said:


> For CPU (High mounting pressure): Kingpin KPx, Kryonaut, Noctua NT-H2, Gelid GC-Extreme
> For GPU (Medium mounting pressure): Conductonaut, Kingpin KPx
> For Laptop (Low mounting pressure): Kingpin KPx, Thermalright TF-X



I was not aware of LM Product below, just found out.  ..I'm going to check it out.  ..EDIT: On order. 

Silver King 1g – Thermalright


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## nguyen (Feb 23, 2021)

delshay said:


> I was not aware of LM Product below, just found out.  ..I'm going to check it out.  ..EDIT: On order.
> 
> Silver King 1g – Thermalright



Just make sure you have nickel plated cooler and LM will give the best thermal result out of any paste.


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## Falkentyne (Feb 28, 2021)

Thermalright TFX is an extremely good paste.  It has very long durability, much like those old, extremely thick pastes like Arctic Ceramique (for those who remember, that paste literally never pumped out).  It can also cure and improve temps slightly after it gets fully cured.  The paste hardens after it's been applied for awhile and then it remains stable.  For TFX, a very good method for use is, for CPUs and large GPU's, apply a large "X" pattern edge to edge, then four smaller drops in each quadrant left over (to make sure coverage is complete), tighten the heatsink (do not spread it manually!) and then try to avoid extremely high temps for about a week (if you can keep it under 70C for a week, that's perfect!).  Once it cures, it will remain longterm stable.  Several laptop owners swear by this paste on their CPU's, where they tested Kryonaut and just had it dry out.

Note that both TFX and Kryonaut Extreme have a similar issue where if you expose them to very high temps right after application, they can exhibit a strange 'pump out' effect, except since Kryonaut extreme doesn't harden, this can still happen to it on hot GPU's.  This can cause temps to rise by several C (saw this on my RTX 3090 FE).  Once TFX hardens and cures, it's stable.

TFX manages to keep my *shunt modded* thermal pad modded (with stock HSF) RTX 3090 FE @ 550 watts below 78C Core (not hotspot) temps, which is extremely impressive for an *air cooled* 550W GPU (100% fans always).

BTW commercial "Galinstan" liquid metal is highway robbery.  Make your own for like 1/8th of the price.


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## nguyen (Feb 28, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> Thermalright TFX is an extremely good paste.  It has very long durability, much like those old, extremely thick pastes like Arctic Ceramique (for those who remember, that paste literally never pumped out).  It can also cure and improve temps slightly after it gets fully cured.  The paste hardens after it's been applied for awhile and then it remains stable.  For TFX, a very good method for use is, for CPUs and large GPU's, apply a large "X" pattern edge to edge, then four smaller drops in each quadrant left over (to make sure coverage is complete), tighten the heatsink (do not spread it manually!) and then try to avoid extremely high temps for about a week (if you can keep it under 70C for a week, that's perfect!).  Once it cures, it will remain longterm stable.  Several laptop owners swear by this paste on their CPU's, where they tested Kryonaut and just had it dry out.
> 
> Note that both TFX and Kryonaut Extreme have a similar issue where if you expose them to very high temps right after application, they can exhibit a strange 'pump out' effect, except since Kryonaut extreme doesn't harden, this can still happen to it on hot GPU's.  This can cause temps to rise by several C (saw this on my RTX 3090 FE).  Once TFX hardens and cures, it's stable.
> 
> TFX manages to keep my *shunt modded* thermal pad modded (with stock HSF) RTX 3090 FE @ 550 watts below 78C Core (not hotspot) temps, which is extremely impressive for an *air cooled* 550W GPU (100% fans always).



Agree with everything you said , Thermalright TFX would be the best paste for laptop users because of it's performance and longevity. 
With TFX you just heat to heat it up a bit with a hair dryer before and during mounting the cooler so that it can spread thinly on the die, less gap between die and cooler means better heat transfer.


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## Nater (Mar 2, 2021)

Toms updated.

Best Thermal Paste for CPUs 2021: 90 Pastes Tested and Ranked​


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## kapone32 (Mar 2, 2021)

I have used this before but I don't remember how good it was 



			Amazon.ca


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## PooPipeBoy (Mar 19, 2021)

Here's a thermal paste that should be avoided: Unick Silicone Heat Transfer Compound.





I bought some to try because I had a tube around 15 years ago when I knew nothing about computers. I didn't know how to compare thermal paste performance and so I never really knew if it was good or not. The main benefit is that you get 150 grams for around $15 or so.

Well, now I can safely say that it's junk. It runs about 8C hotter than an average thermal paste. Physically this stuff is very similar to sunscreen, except with no smell. It's very difficult to clean because it's hard to see it on paper towel and it smears itself into every little crevice that it can find. Not recommended at all.

If you want GOOD bulk thermal paste, I'm still standing by GD900 from Aliexpress as the best option. The cost-per-volume is similar but it performs far better, more like a standard Arctic MX-4 paste. Much easier to apply and clean off components as well.


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## PooPipeBoy (Apr 16, 2021)

I did a performance shootout between Noctua NT-H1 (AU$4.5/gram) and GD900 (AU$0.14/gram) which yielded absolutely identical results. Deep down I wanted NT-H1 to win because then it would at least be somewhat justifiable to spend 30 times more on a retail thermal paste. I gave it every opportunity to inch even ONE degree ahead but it refused.

Testbench is an overclocked Pentium G3258 with a dual heatpipe tower cooler running Molex-powered fans. Ambients were 28degC on each run, verified at start and finish. I subjected each thermal grease to 30 minutes at 100% load using MSI Kombustor and took screenshots for each one on completion.

I'm going to be re-visiting this test in the future (hopefully with more test subjects like Arctic MX-4), but with the tools I've got on hand right now I'm struggling to find any performance differences at all. You actually have to study the images carefully to find any differences, but you can definitely see the screenshot that I took for NT-H1 first.

I also did a preliminary test earlier and that resulted in identical maximum temperatures, so there's reason to believe this isn't a fluke result.

Noctua NT-H1:





GD900:


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## Lindatje (Apr 16, 2021)

I use LM on my CPU and GPU, nothing is better.


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## Nater (Apr 16, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> I did a performance shootout between Noctua NT-H1 (AU$4.5/gram) and GD900 (AU$0.14/gram) which yielded absolutely identical results. Deep down I wanted NT-H1 to win because then it would at least be somewhat justifiable to spend 30 times more on a retail thermal paste. I gave it every opportunity to inch even ONE degree ahead but it refused.
> 
> Testbench is an overclocked Pentium G3258 with a dual heatpipe tower cooler running Molex-powered fans. Ambients were 28degC on each run, verified at start and finish. I subjected each thermal grease to 30 minutes at 100% load using MSI Kombustor and took screenshots for each one on completion.
> 
> ...


I went to look at Newegg.com here in the US....and 10g of Noctua NT-H1 is $14.95, while 10x 1g tubes of GD900 is $16.29...yet you can get a 30g tube of it for $12.99.

???

I've never heard of GD900 I guess.


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## Shrek (Apr 16, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Well, now I can safely say that it's junk. It runs about 8C hotter than an average thermal paste.


8C is a lot, but I am not sure it is worth chasing 2C; I worry about longevity and the dangers of liquid metal.

Gallium Induced Failure of a Heat Sink - YouTube


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## PooPipeBoy (Apr 16, 2021)

Nater said:


> I went to look at Newegg.com here in the US....and 10g of Noctua NT-H1 is $14.95, while 10x 1g tubes of GD900 is $16.29...yet you can get a 30g tube of it for $12.99.
> 
> ???
> 
> I've never heard of GD900 I guess.



Yeah I don't know what the deal is with those resellers, but the 30g tubes are sold through AliExpress (GD900 listings). It's so cheap there that they're practically giving it away. Right now they're US$2.60 each. Last time I ordered a couple in March it took three weeks to get them and the new batch performs just as good as the first one I got, so it seems like it performs consistently.



Andy Shiekh said:


> 8C is a lot, but I am not sure it is worth chasing 2C; I worry about longevity and the dangers of liquid metal.
> 
> (1) Gallium Induced Failure of a Heat Sink - Bing video



Yeah when it's 8 degrees hotter then it's not worth messing with. Pretty much every other thermal paste on the market does better than that stuff.

I'm thinking of doing some testing with my R9 270X to get some more accurate readings on these thermal pastes. It generates a good amount of heat and you can easily run the fans at 100% on a graphics card, so it might be a good candidate for it.


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## freeagent (Apr 16, 2021)

I am using Thermalright TF7 right now, it came with my cooler. Works pretty good so far..


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## Nater (Apr 16, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Yeah I don't know what the deal is with those resellers, but the 30g tubes are sold through AliExpress (GD900 listings). It's so cheap there that they're practically giving it away. Right now they're US$2.60 each. Last time I ordered a couple in March it took three weeks to get them and the new batch performs just as good as the first one I got, so it seems like it performs consistently.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'd still avoid it.  Not one result for reviews from a reputable source in the first page of a google search on it.  I'm not putting 10 cent thermal paste on my $450 CPU & $100 cooler.  Hopefully someone out there takes the time to review it properly though, with it's value side.  High TDP CPU, low tension/high tension brackets, waterblock vs air.  etc.  Then longevity.  Does it "dry out"?  I bet it does at that price.


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## PooPipeBoy (Apr 16, 2021)

Nater said:


> I'd still avoid it.  Not one result for reviews from a reputable source in the first page of a google search on it.  I'm not putting 10 cent thermal paste on my $450 CPU & $100 cooler.  Hopefully someone out there takes the time to review it properly though, with it's value side.  High TDP CPU, low tension/high tension brackets, waterblock vs air.  etc.  Then longevity.  Does it "dry out"?  I bet it does at that price.



Don't knock it 'till you've tried it. Obviously longevity takes a long time to thoroughly test but I've had it on my Ryzen 5600X since November 2020 (five months) and I've been using it for well over a year on all of my systems. Haven't had any issues with bad thermals or oil separation yet so I'm still waiting to find out how long each application can last. But already it's lasted a lot longer than I originally expected.


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## nguyen (Apr 16, 2021)

Well the guy running TechYesCity is quite fond of the GD900 and called it the best paste for general usage, so it's not an untested paste.


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## Shrek (Apr 16, 2021)

I use SuperLube thermal grease, it loses a few degrees but should last as it is good to 260C (I don't want to have to do the work more than once). This stuff is only $7 for 85g.

Concerning drying out; while I don't like thermal grease that dies out, that does no mean it is not still effective.


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## PooPipeBoy (Apr 16, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Well the guy running TechYesCity is quite fond of the GD900 and called it the best paste for general usage, so it's not an untested paste.



Yeah correct, I actually found out about GD900 originally from his video and I ordered it in August 2019. About 1.5 years so that seems about right.

His results are similar to mine, in the sense that NT-H1 and GD900 scored the same results. I'd like to test more brands but that's all I have on hand at the moment.


----------



## Shrek (Apr 16, 2021)

I've always wondered about diaper cream as that has zinc oxide in it, 40% in the maximum strength versions.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Apr 16, 2021)

I finally managed to find a slight difference between the two thermal pastes. Preliminary testing on the R9 270X resulted in a max of 49C for the GD900 and 50C for the NT-H1. Kind of an unofficial result though because the R9 270X doesn't produce as much heat as I wanted it to. I need to work on sorting out a better testbench and ordering some additional thermal paste options to test.



Andy Shiekh said:


> I've always wondered about diaper cream as that has zinc oxide in it, 40% in the maximum strength versions.



Eh, you can always try it on a system you don't care about. I tend to avoid wildly different products though because there can be issues with heat degradation or material incompatibilities.


----------



## Shrek (Apr 16, 2021)

It was just an 'what if' moment... I'm happy with a silicone based zinc oxide mix; but liquid metal is something I will be avoiding after seeing what it does to aluminum.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Apr 17, 2021)

I did one more thorough test before I shelve this project. These results are very reliable, but AGAIN it's pretty much a draw.

Test regime:

Each thermal paste (NT-H1 and GD900) was applied on my Asus R9 270X DirectCUII graphics card
Next was an initial 10 minute burn-in with MSI Kombustor.
The main test was a 30 minute run using Unigine Heaven at 1080p Ultra
Ambient temperature was recorded at start and finish of the main run using an Elitech digital thermometer
A 5 minute cooldown with no load was used so that minimum temperatures could also be recorded
All GPU thermal results were recorded with HWiNFO64
Fan speeds on the card were set at 75% and I also used external fans to minimise heatsoak.

Results for NT-H1:

Start ambient temp = 25.6C
Finish ambient temp = 25.3C
Maximum die temp = 51C
Minimum die temp = 28C
Results for GD900:

Start ambient temp = 25.7C
Finish ambient temp = 25.9C
Maximum die temp = 52C
Minimum die temp = 29C



Spoiler: R9 270X thermal benchmark results



Noctua NT-H1:






GD900:







So the NT-H1 posted temperatures that were 1 degree cooler across the board, but it was also running in slightly cooler ambient temperatures (+0.4C). I can't confirm if the NT-H1 won by a full -1.0C margin because I can't get sub-decimal temperature readings on the GPU. There MIGHT be a -0.5C advantage to the NT-H1 but it's just as likely to be a dead equal result. Definitely there's no meaningful difference in the performance between the two of them.


----------



## Kissamies (Apr 17, 2021)

Getting probably some liquid metal today as I'll be picking up a box of stuff from my friend. Dunno if I have any usage to it myself.

There's also a delid tool on that box so my other friend's i7-6700K will be running cooler the next time when I visit him.


----------



## VeqIR (Jun 11, 2021)

Where does one buy a tube of genuine Thermalright TFX?  In the US or shipped to it.


----------



## Liquid Cool (Jun 11, 2021)

I'll probably just continue to use Arctic Cooling's MX-2 as long as they keep selling it.  I've been using the stuff for as long as I can remember and I really don't see the need to change. 

It's always treated me well.

Best,

Liquid Cool


----------



## Falkentyne (Jun 11, 2021)

VeqIR said:


> Where does one buy a tube of genuine Thermalright TFX?  In the US or shipped to it.


Nan's Gaming Gear and Corn's electronics both sell TFX in USA.  (I've seen it on Amazon and Newegg).  FrozenCPU can get it (Thermalright said FrozenCPU is one of their partners when I asked them in email).

TFX is extremely expensive however.  The new kid on the block is SYY-157, which is less than half the price of TFX, performs exactly the same, and is also easier to spread while being the same overall composition as TFX, besides the viscosity and wetting improvements.  FuzeIce Plus seems to be the exact same paste as SYY-157 in a side by side test and finger/spread test.  I believe Maxtor CTG9 is also the exact same paste as well (CTG8 is worse). but is only available on aliexpress and is way too expensive (I looked carefully at the spread test of CTG9 and it behaves identically to SYY-157 in spatula spreading and adhesion and behavior, as well as color, so it's very likely the same as FuzeIce Plus/SYY-157.  Both should come from the same or similar factories in Shenzhen, China.

But at $11 for 8 grams of SYY-157?  That's a very good bargain.  So I suggest trying SYY-157.






						Amazon.com: Thermal Paste, SYY 8 Grams CPU Paste Thermal Compound Paste Heatsink for IC/Processor/CPU/All Coolers, 15.7W/m.k Carbon Based High Performance, Thermal Interface Material, CPU Thermal Paste : Electronics
					

Amazon.com: Thermal Paste, SYY 8 Grams CPU Paste Thermal Compound Paste Heatsink for IC/Processor/CPU/All Coolers, 15.7W/m.k Carbon Based High Performance, Thermal Interface Material, CPU Thermal Paste : Electronics



					www.amazon.com


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## VeqIR (Jun 11, 2021)

Some reviews I’ve seen put Noctua NT-H2 on par with Kingpin KPx and Thermalright TFX.  Some variance in TG Kryonaut results too with respect to other top pastes.  I have NT-H2 now (and a 1g tube of Kryonaut), so I’m wondering about KPx and TFX/SYY-157.  P.S.: these don’t break my bank, and it’s fun, so I don’t mind  getting other TIMs to compare.


----------



## Borc (Jun 11, 2021)

For UK (or EU) users SYY-157 4g for just £2.60: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Grease，8-8...hild=1&keywords=syy-157&qid=1623413473&sr=8-5


----------



## oldwalltree (Jun 11, 2021)

VeqIR said:


> Some reviews I’ve seen put Noctua NT-H2 on par with Kingpin KPx and Thermalright TFX.  Some variance in TG Kryonaut results too with respect to other top pastes.  I have NT-H2 now (and a 1g tube of Kryonaut), so I’m wondering about KPx and TFX/SYY-157.  P.S.: these don’t break my bank, and it’s fun, so I don’t mind  getting other TIMs to compare.


I had NT-H2 on my 10900x and switched to XPX and well.....there was no difference!


----------



## r.h.p (Jun 11, 2021)

im not sure what this stuff is but it works good  and is cheap from the electronics store


----------



## PaulieG (Jun 11, 2021)

I'm wondering if I should buy 3-4 of the lesser known pastes and do a comparison review of them against my "go to" paste NT-H2 and maybe one other like TFX, all on one of my 5950x's. That would be a fun late fall/winter project when I'm not outside as much.


----------



## Kissamies (Jun 12, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> I'm wondering if I should buy 3-4 of the lesser known pastes and do a comparison review of them against my "go to" paste NT-H2 and maybe one other like TFX, all on one of my 5950x's. That would be a fun late fall/winter project when I'm not outside as much.


Why not  there's always that arguing which paste is the best and how much they perform better than those cheaper ones.


----------



## Shrek (Jun 12, 2021)

I assume by 'best' people simply mean lowest temperature; I always felt there was so much more to the art, for otherwise 40% diaper cream would be considered a rather fine thermal paste


----------



## xzel87 (Jul 18, 2021)

GD900 checking in here, used it on everything and it works great!

Here's some before and after HW Monitor and test setup. Basically idle temps vs temps running prime95 with AVX off for 10 minutes. Ambient temps when test done is 33.4C +/- 0.3C

Running a Xeon 1241v3 stock clocks (Undervolted 0.1v) with cooler master hyper212 turbo white edition




Idle temps, ambient is around 33.4C



10 minutes Prime95 run with AVX off (small fft)

I don't have the data on hand to show but I am getting better temps vs using Cooler Master Mastergel Pro. I only paid about equivalent USD4 with shipping to get a 30G tube shipped to me. I've had the tube for over a year now and there's still more than half left, the paste separates after awhile but a quick mix (just slowly pull and push the syringe plunger a few times and it's good as new).





While typing this I forgot to turn off the test and the temps stabilised at 69C max, I believe this was running for more than 20 minutes at this point. Also to note, the 3 other cores are cool as cucumber only that one core gets real hot.


----------



## Shrek (Jul 18, 2021)

I have also moved over to GD900 (120g for $15 with postage), but wonder about its longevity; I got the jar version (30g a jar) so there would be no problem remixing.

Core 0 is also slightly warmer for me; is this generally so (the first task of many always being given to Core 0?)


----------



## ThrashZone (Jul 18, 2021)

Hi,
Yep core 0 is the main core
Depending on board it may show you in bios which are priority cores with this symbol *

HWinfo also should show this too with perf #'s


----------



## xzel87 (Jul 19, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I have also moved over to GD900 (120g for $15 with postage), but wonder about its longevity; I got the jar version (30g a jar) so there would be no problem remixing.
> 
> Core 0 is also slightly warmer for me; is this generally so (the first task of many always being given to Core 0?)


I have repasted desktop systems almost exactly 12 months ago, but unfortunately these are all office machines so it didn't occur to me to take freshly applied temp data to compare to a later date. I may have a an ancient Q6600 system I can compare to as from memory in idle those 4 cores are in their early 50s after repaste (the stock cooler was meant for a measly dual core pentium, I used it for the q6600 anyways since office has AC).

I may be able to test my wife's laptop as I've repasted hers last year with GD900, but laptops are a hit and miss due to their flimsy mounting mechanism which doesn't have a lot of mounting pressure...so softer paste like the GD900 tends to get pumped out.


EDIT EDIT EDIT UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE

I've repasted my wife's laptop and I ran Prime95 with avx off at at least 30 minutes to get to max temps, cleaned the paste, applied fresh gd900 paste (same tube) and ran the same test parameters to get max stabilised temps. I recorded a difference of 1C cooler with new paste, as far as I'm concerned this is within error margin and the conclusion can be made that the paste has not deteriorated at all in the almost 1 year in my wife laptop. I also did a fresh windows reinstall and let all updates run before running the tests (install was done because i notice her windows was acting wonky and real strange, I haven't taken a look at her laptop and done software maintenance etc. in awhile).

BEFORE REPASTE (almost 1 year old GD900 paste)




AFTER REPASTE (Fresh GD900 paste, from same 30g tube)


----------



## Yaxpak2021 (Jul 26, 2021)

I'be been using MX-5. Seems to do okei compared to more expensive pastes like TG Kryonaout Extreme. I wasted 100 dollars on the TG stuff.


----------



## Intervention (Jul 26, 2021)

Yaxpak2021 said:


> I'be been using MX-5. Seems to do okei compared to more expensive pastes like TG Kryonaout Extreme. I wasted 100 dollars on the TG stuff.


LOL You mean like this?


----------



## Yaxpak2021 (Jul 26, 2021)

Intervention said:


> LOL You mean like this?


But why is this soooo expensive? Like seriously. I expected the same results as in the video. I saw another one too that compares both pastes. Almost the same crap.


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## Intervention (Jul 26, 2021)

Yaxpak2021 said:


> But why is this soooo expensive? Like seriously. I expected the same results as in the video. I saw another one too that compares both pastes. Almost the same crap.


Well, MX-5 I would say is for the casual "I want a good thermal paste that's going to perform and I won't have to worry about for years" kind of paste. While TG Kryonaut extreme is more for extreme overclockers, like LN2 OC. In a lot of cases, folks fall for this hype and spend crap tons of money on products which will not meet their expectations, for their intended purpose.


----------



## Yaxpak2021 (Jul 26, 2021)

Intervention said:


> Well, MX-5 I would say is for the casual "I want a good thermal paste that's going to perform and I won't have to worry about for years" kind of paste. While TG Kryonaut extreme is more for extreme overclockers, like LN2 OC. In a lot of cases, folks fall for this hype and spend crap tons of money on products which will not meet their expectations, for their intended purpose.


Yeah I've been there sadly


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## freeagent (Jul 26, 2021)

Check out SYY-157, you can get on Amazon. It’s good stuff.


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## Yaxpak2021 (Jul 26, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Check out SYY-157, you can get on Amazon. It’s good stuff.


I have never heard of this one until now. Thanks so much I will do that


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## Intervention (Jul 26, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Check out SYY-157, you can get on Amazon. It’s good stuff.


I'll have to check that out too. Thanks man.


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## freeagent (Jul 26, 2021)

It’s cheap too, 8 grams for 15 bucks I think.. you would have to check your region


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## Yaxpak2021 (Jul 26, 2021)

freeagent said:


> It’s cheap too, 8 grams for 15 bucks I think.. you would have to check your region


15W/mk???? what? thats insane!


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## Intervention (Jul 26, 2021)

freeagent said:


> It’s cheap too, 8 grams for 15 bucks I think.. you would have to check your region


Well I live in Norway. I think Amazon UK might have it. Now I want try this LOL


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## 80-watt Hamster (Jul 28, 2021)

Yaxpak2021 said:


> 15W/mk???? what? thats insane!



Take all thermal conductivity ratings with a suitable number of grains of salt.  It's kind of like UTQG for tires; there are testing standards, but the resulting values are only really comparable to products from the same manufacturer due to variances in testing methodology.


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## freeagent (Jul 28, 2021)

Its about the same as Thermalright TFX, but easier to apply.

These guys are trying to get their name out there, they make a good product.


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## Shrek (Jul 28, 2021)

Yaxpak2021 said:


> 15W/mk???? what? thats insane!



I still don't understand this fasciation for thermal conductivity

Power 100W
Area 3cm x 3cm
Thickness 0.05 mm

Thermal conductivity 10 W/K m -> 0.6°C temperature drop
Thermal conductivity 20 W/K m -> 0.3°C temperature drop
Is the second paste twice as good? Since the CPU reports temperature to the nearest degree one is probably not even going to notice the difference.


----------



## ThrashZone (Jul 28, 2021)

Hi,
Yep not enough between chip and cooler to matter all that much 
Think it was mostly which ones melt the least under heat.


----------



## freeagent (Jul 28, 2021)

Indeed. That SYY stuff is fairly thick, there will no pumping anything out  

Same with TFX, no pump out because its thick.. I do have a couple of CPUs that make real heat, not that pretend stuff 

Earlier I said I haven't seen pump out, but I think I did on my GPU with TF8.


----------



## Shrek (Jul 28, 2021)

I could be wrong (am often wrong), but don't get how thick will resist pump out.

The forces associated with thermal expansion are enormous, so the heatsink will expand over the CPU and thick or not, some thermal paste will be carried out and wiped away when things cool back down; but it will take a lot of thermal cycles to notice.


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## freeagent (Jul 28, 2021)

I am probably just talking shit to be honest. But so far I have not seen any pumpage on my CPUs.


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## Shrek (Jul 28, 2021)

For me its a big deal if there really is no pump-out, so don't let me discourage you.

I'm also wondering if pump-in is possible, namely a high surface tension that would have the thermal grease pull back in.


----------



## ThrashZone (Jul 28, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I am probably just talking shit to be honest. But so far I have not seen any pumpage on my CPUs.


Hi,
With that big air cooler I find it difficult to believe you could see any lol


----------



## freeagent (Jul 28, 2021)

I use the spatula with these AMD's 

If I take my time works really well


----------



## Raid0ss (Nov 22, 2021)

is it possible to use Thermalright Tfx also on VRMs and VRAMs? since the heatsink of the above also expands by thermal expansion and if the thermal pad does not compress enough it could slightly flex the heatsink and reduce contact on the CPU and GPU.


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## Nike_486DX (Nov 22, 2021)

MX 4 is one of the best ofc, but keep in mind that there are differernt batches too, and one tube wont necesarily contain the exact same paste as the other. The main issue with thermal grease in general (tried Arctic silver 5, MX4, MX2, Deepcool Z3 Z5 and Z9, also that Noctua thingie that came with the cpu cooler) - is that for power hungry graphics cards (especially HD 7970 GE, i owned that graphic for about 4 years, from 2014 to 18) *the thermal compound degrades in only 1-2 months !* After that time you can fire up furmark and clearly see a really bad temp graph, and after repaste it comes back to normal.  Didnt happen with GTX 1060 6g, but happened again with 580 8g. Switching to liquid metal made a huge difference.

For cpu (non delidded) it doesnt have that issue, but keep in mind you can install cpu cooler without thermal paste and it will still work fine. i sometimes build a test bench with i5 3470 and i just slap an athlon xp era heatsink onto it and a 120mm fan on top, (no thermal grease) and it doesnt go beyond 70c in prime95.


----------



## xzel87 (Nov 22, 2021)

For what it's worth, TG Carbonaut works really well and doesn't degrade at all, using it on my laptop CPU and GPU and the temps have maintained after 1 year and 7 months. At the one year mark I was bored and curious and changed to TG Kryonaut (the carbonaut pad I kept of course as it is reusable), the temps on Kryonaut was a good 3-4 degrees cooler but after a few weeks started to degrade and performed worse than the Carbonaut. To be fair my laptop heatsink have lousy mount pressure with the triangle 3 screw set up (inherent laptop heatsink design flaw in most models) so any sort of paste won't work too well after some time.

Still using regular paste on my desktop as it has good mounting pressure and good temps (CM Hyper 212 EVO), also not economical to use Carbonaut on desktop (actually for my case it could be as I rarely take it apart, but another carbonaut pad for Intel 35mm costs about 20USD where I'm at and I have a 30G tube of good paste on hand so it was a no brainer.

Conclusion, carbonaut works very well for systems with not too great mounting pressure or an uneven heatsink as the thickness helps bridge the gaps. It won't beat fresh applied paste like the Kryonaut or the equivalent but what it does best is stability and longetivity. I literally do not need to repaste my laptop ever now, just open up to clean fans and dust. It's also not suitable for overclocked systems (duh).


----------



## Kissamies (Nov 22, 2021)

Went back to MX-4 myself, I didn't like MX-5 as much. This time I got a 8g syringe so it lasts longer.


----------



## Kingtanar (Nov 23, 2021)

Jill Christine Valentine said:


> Went back to MX-4 myself, I didn't like MX-5 as much. This time I got a 8g syringe so it lasts longer.


Why didn't you like the Arctic MX-5?


----------



## Ibizadr (Nov 23, 2021)

Need to re buy some thermal paste, it's kryonaut still the best in class, or any other has more efficient?


----------



## Nike_486DX (Nov 23, 2021)

Ibizadr said:


> Need to re buy some thermal paste, it's kryonaut still the best in class, or any other has more efficient?


conductonaut its the best tim, but 1) needs to be correctly applied 2) a bit more expensive. But for a crucial component such as 200W+ graphics card or overclocked cpu it would be the best investment, totally worth it


----------



## Shrek (Nov 23, 2021)

Ibizadr said:


> Need to re buy some thermal paste, it's kryonaut still the best in class, or any other has more efficient?



Aluminum heatsink?


----------



## Ibizadr (Nov 23, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Aluminum heatsink?


For aio cooper I think and gpu



Nike_486DX said:


> conductonaut its the best tim, but 1) needs to be correctly applied 2) a bit more expensive. But for a crucial component such as 200W+ graphics card or overclocked cpu it would be the best investment, totally worth it


I will avoid liquid metal since I don't have any experience with it


----------



## Shrek (Nov 23, 2021)

I like GD900
What's The BEST Thermal Paste in 2019....? (Ft. GD900) - Bing video
even beat MX4, but few people (if any) cover longevity.

I don't hear a lot about Kingpin KPx here


----------



## Nike_486DX (Nov 23, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Aluminum heatsink?


then any tim would suffice, aluminum would be the bottleneck here (and not sure if any cpu/gpu part that is 60W+ has got all-aluminum base).


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 4, 2021)

Maenad said:


> Come continue your fight on my thread guys
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was invited and hello everyone!


----------



## Shrek (Dec 4, 2021)

Nike_486DX said:


> then any tim would suffice, aluminum would be the bottleneck here (and not sure if any cpu/gpu part that is 60W+ has got all-aluminum base).



I have an Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 running fine on just aluminum (TDP 95W)


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 12, 2021)

Hi, I wonder, as I ordered both

Iceberg Thermal FUZEIce Plus & SYY157

Both will arrive from USA in 1-2 weeks, I am thinking, maybe certain die will benefit more from either one of these? or both GPU and CPU go with SYY157?

Reminder it is ASUS G513QY, Ryzen 5900HX and RX6800M.

P.S. REplacing from Gelid GC Extreme....

As time left till pastes arrival, still doing some thinking 

Thank you so much!


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 13, 2021)

I'm about to order some stuff from a local shop, so I thought I'd also get some spare thermal paste - and use it as an excuse to get rid of the sticky MX-5. I'm just wondering which one I should try this time:

*Arctic MX-4*: my usual go-to solution, much better than the MX-5,
*CoolerMaster MasterGel Maker*: I've tried this before, it's an equally good paste,
*be quiet! DC-1*: I have a be quiet! cooler (in my profile), and I'm wondering if paste from the same maker would make a difference,
*Thermal Grizzly Hydronaut*: YouTube is full of Thermal Grizzly ads, so it's either really good, or they just want to boost crappy sales by sponsorship ads. I don't know.
Thermal conductivity is important, as I'm running my Core i7-11700 with a 200 W power limit (essentially unlocked), but as the MX-5 made me realize, ease of application is even more important than that.

What do you guys think?


----------



## Shrek (Dec 13, 2021)

GD900


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## AusWolf (Dec 13, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> GD900


Never heard of it.


----------



## Shrek (Dec 13, 2021)

What's The BEST Thermal Paste in 2019....? (Ft. GD900) - Bing video

Amazon.com: 1 Pcs 30g GD900 Thermal Paste Processors for CPU Plaster Heatsink Heat Sink Plaster Cooler Water Cooler : Electronics


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 13, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> What's The BEST Thermal Paste in 2019....? (Ft. GD900) - Bing video
> 
> Amazon.com: 1 Pcs 30g GD900 Thermal Paste Processors for CPU Plaster Heatsink Heat Sink Plaster Cooler Water Cooler : Electronics


Hmm... the reviews I've found don't seem to be too fond of it. 

Another contender is the *Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut*. It appears the be the best paste on the market, though a bit expensive.

Also a random question: Thermal Grizzly has a line on their product page: "Do not use in silicone sensitive applications." What does that mean?


----------



## Shrek (Dec 14, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> Hmm... the reviews I've found don't seem to be too fond of it.



I am most interested; can you give links to these reviews?

Best thermal paste for laptop: Arctic MX-4, Zalman ZM-STG2, Noctua NT-H1, GD900 - Bing video
These guys have it neck-to-neck with MX-4


----------



## oobymach (Dec 14, 2021)

NT-H2 and Mastergel Pro V2 are almost identical in performance and are basically the best non electrically conductive pastes you can get imo. 

The Mastergel dropped my gpu temp by 5 degrees compared to stock paste.


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 14, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I am most interested; can you give links to these reviews?
> 
> Best thermal paste for laptop: Arctic MX-4, Zalman ZM-STG2, Noctua NT-H1, GD900 - Bing video
> These guys have it neck-to-neck with MX-4


This one. There was another one, but I can't find it now. 









On the other hand, every review listed the Kryonaut on top of the pack (along with the two Noctuas), so I've just ordered a tube. I hope I won't struggle with the application as much as I did with the MX-5.


----------



## Shrek (Dec 14, 2021)

Much appreciated; now that's confusing.

Anyone else on TechPowerUp using GD900?

My attachment above failed, so I try again


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## Falkentyne (Dec 15, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Much appreciated; now that's confusing.
> 
> Anyone else on TechPowerUp using GD900?
> 
> My attachment above failed, so I try again



GD007 was 4C worse than SYY-157 on my MSI GT73VR GTX 1070 video card (230W TDP mod).   No idea how that compares to GD900 though.  Most I can tell you.


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## xtreemchaos (Dec 15, 2021)

i use GD900, to tell the truth its as good as any ive nearly tryed them all over the years "apart from mx5 cos its new" and its a con. in my view GD900 sits just a tad better than mx4 and its about £6 for 30g i double dare any one to try it.


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## s3ruX (Dec 15, 2021)

Well i will tell my experience with GD900/MX4/MX5/Gelid/KryonautGrease.

*GD900* is cheaper we can expect to much of it
*Gelid* was better them *GD900* by a couple C's 
*MX4/MX5* is okish at begging better them *GD900* and *Gelid* but after couple days i notice a increasing on temperature and after dissassembly i notice MX4/MX5 always create air bubles/pockets... maybe a uneven pressure could cause that? maybe with a correctly torque on the screws could help... i tried various methods Dot/Spread/Cross and the problem always happens.
*Kryonaut Grease* easily the winner here not only significant lower max temperature but is extremely consistent over 3 months and performing exactly the same.


----------



## Shrek (Dec 15, 2021)

s3ruX said:


> *GD900* is cheaper we can expect to much of it



And yet it seems to be up there with the very best.
(1) Best thermal paste for laptop: Arctic MX-4, Zalman ZM-STG2, Noctua NT-H1, GD900 - Bing video

I have a theory that the thick pastes (good for longevity) do not do well if they were applied too generously.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 15, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> And yet it seems to be up there with the very best.
> 
> I have a theory that the thick pastes (good for longevity) do not do well if they were applied too generously.


They don’t, that’s when they become an insulator. The “there is no such thing as too much” I think goes for thinner pastes that just pump out anyways.


----------



## theFOoL (Dec 15, 2021)

This applies to anything except the larger cpu from AMD


----------



## freeagent (Dec 15, 2021)

Lol tell that to the phat line I put down the side and pull across the cpu


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## theFOoL (Dec 15, 2021)

One thing I hate so much is that most tech youtubers do that and I'm like "No No not That Much" plus they squeeze like half a tube thus a waste of money


----------



## freeagent (Dec 15, 2021)

I somehow missed the part about the big amd cpu 

even still, with Intel I do a line down the cores and plant my cooler on top which usually results in nice even coverage..


----------



## theFOoL (Dec 15, 2021)

But freeagent you must realize that when you apply pressure to the HST thus' it'll flatten the paste. The paste *Doesn't have to completely cover on the CPU you know that


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (Dec 15, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I somehow missed the part about the big amd cpu
> 
> even still, with Intel I do a line down the cores and plant my cooler on top which usually results in nice even coverage..


Ha!

I wasn't sure what to do with Alder Lake, and that's _exactly_ what I did this past weekend. Worked like a champ and idles at 4 degrees over ambient on air.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 15, 2021)

theFOoL said:


> But freeagent you must realize that when you apply pressure to the HST thus' it'll flatten the paste. The paste *Doesn't have to completely cover on the CPU you know that


I do know that, the IHS gets in the way anyways, it doesn’t even spread heat, it’s just there so people don’t crush their cores like in the AXP days


----------



## theFOoL (Dec 15, 2021)

Just a funny memory... I once was working on a friend's pc and when I say the paste outside of the HST Area I was like "umm uhh ok yeah uhh who did this?" I reapply and Temps were far better


----------



## freeagent (Dec 15, 2021)

I am so retentive that I will pull my mount apart if is more than 2c off of what it should be lol.. this guy has no life lol


----------



## Shrek (Dec 15, 2021)

How much thermal paste is too much?

I've been waiting to use this picture for some time now


----------



## xtreemchaos (Dec 15, 2021)

on desktop CPUs i use about a garden pea size and let cooler pressure spread it out and GPUs and laptops i rub it about a bit to get a even covering' works for me every time.


----------



## Shrek (Dec 15, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> GD007 was 4C worse than SYY-157 on my MSI GT73VR GTX 1070 video card (230W TDP mod).   No idea how that compares to GD900 though.  Most I can tell you.



(1) AliExpress Thermal Paste Comparison (feat. GD900, GD900-1 & GD007) GD900 is AWESOME - Bing video

GD007 didn't do so well

I am beginning to wonder if by concentrating on thermal conductivity we are ignoring surface effects like wettability.


----------



## Kissamies (Dec 16, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I do know that, the IHS gets in the way anyways, it doesn’t even spread heat, it’s just there so people don’t crush their cores like in the AXP days


I still have to wonder how people managed to kill their Athlons/Pentium IIIs back in the day. Or maybe they just put the heatsink with gorilla strength or something.


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (Dec 16, 2021)

Maenad said:


> I still have to wonder how people managed to kill their Athlons/Pentium IIIs back in the day. Or maybe they just put the heatsink with gorilla strength or something.



Some of it was too much pressure, but a good portion was the heat sink attaching to the socket itself - a clip on each side made it easy to apply uneven pressure which then broke off a corner of the die.


----------



## Kissamies (Dec 16, 2021)

weekendgeek said:


> Some of it was too much pressure, but a good portion was the heat sink attaching to the socket itself - a clip on each side made it easy to apply uneven pressure which then broke off a corner of the die.


I guess that the foam pads on Athlons/Durons helped at least a little. Though I have few S462 CPUs without those and still it's easy to install those without damaging the die.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 16, 2021)

Maenad said:


> I still have to wonder how people managed to kill their Athlons/Pentium IIIs back in the day. Or maybe they just put the heatsink with gorilla strength or something.


I didn’t kill mine but I did break some corners off. That big shitty clip out a lot of pressure on if you weren’t lined up just right. In those days I was new


----------



## Kissamies (Dec 16, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I didn’t kill mine but I did break some corners off. That big shitty clip out a lot of pressure on if you weren’t lined up just right. In those days I was new


Well... I had an Athlon 1GHz back in the day with heavily chipped corners but it worked flawlessly even after that, even when overclocked to 1.4GHz. I guess there are some spare silicon left in the corners or something. 

Too bad that I don't have a working S462 board ATM, I have few chips with chipped corners and IIRC they also all work fine. Can't just test them now, dammit.


----------



## GamingLove (Dec 28, 2021)

Hi all,

I have just bought an Intel Core i5 12600K and was wondering which is the best way to put thermal paste on it. Usually I use the "pea" drop technique but that is for "square" CPU. Since  LGA 1700 is a rectangle I'm not quite sure how to put thermal paste on it. I have a Gigabyte AiO cooler.
Any advice?

Thanks


----------



## Shrek (Dec 28, 2021)

I use a toothpick to spread the paste to all parts of the chip not worrying too much about uniformity; this way I can be sure I have not used too much (or too little).


----------



## GamingLove (Dec 28, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I use a toothpick to spread the paste to all parts of the chip not worrying too much about uniformity; this way I can be sure I have not used too much (or too little).


Hi,

thanks for the answere.
How much paste do you use to spread it on the CPU? 
In a post MSI suggested to do as you say (the important thing is to avoid air bubbles between the CPU and the cooler surfaces), but they did not show how much of thermal paste to use.

Thank again


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (Dec 28, 2021)

GamingLove said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have just bought an Intel Core i5 12600K and was wondering which is the best way to put thermal paste on it. Usually I use the "pea" drop technique but that is for "square" CPU. Since  LGA 1700 is a rectangle I'm not quite sure how to put thermal paste on it. I have a Gigabyte AiO cooler.
> Any advice?
> ...



I did a small line down the center over where the die is located and allowed the cooler to do the spreading.


----------



## Shrek (Dec 28, 2021)

GamingLove said:


> How much paste do you use to spread it on the CPU?



The least possible such that the whole surface is covered very thinly.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 29, 2021)

Saw the following and thought it was just bizzare, but it works! I want to try this stuff out.


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (Dec 29, 2021)

GamingLove said:


> Hi,
> 
> thanks for the answere.
> How much paste do you use to spread it on the CPU?
> ...


What @weekendgeek said, or if you're feeling more hands-on, run the line down one side of the heatspreader and smear a thin layer across with the edge of a credit card.


----------



## jhelton48 (Dec 29, 2021)

I use IC Diamond Thermal Compound.


----------



## micropage7 (Dec 29, 2021)

weekendgeek said:


> I did a small line down the center over where the die is located and allowed the cooler to do the spreading.
> 
> View attachment 230462


i usually using small dabs method, but any method that you use just make sure you put small size of paste there and avoid over paste since it will be harder to clean up and it may affect the heat transfer


----------



## mama (Dec 29, 2021)

Cross with dots in the pie wedges.


----------



## GamingLove (Dec 30, 2021)

80-watt Hamster said:


> What @weekendgeek said, or if you're feeling more hands-on, run the line down one side of the heatspreader and smear a thin layer across with the edge of a credit card.



Thank for the reply. I will try to do as you say.


----------



## seth1911 (Jan 3, 2022)

Coollabotory Liquid Metal Pads = on PC, Laptop and PS4


----------



## Shrek (Jan 7, 2022)

An interesting discovery of 3 thermal pastes from the same manufacturer
Thermally conductive compound_Foshan High Conductivity Electronic Co., Ltd. (ourgd.net)
where the better the thermal conductivity, the worse the performance

GD900 (4.8 W/K m)
GD900-1 (6.0 W/K m)
GD007 (6.8 W/K m)
(1) AliExpress Thermal Paste Comparison (feat. GD900, GD900-1 & GD007) GD900 is AWESOME - Bing video

My conjecture is that the higher thermal conductivity may be being achieved at the cost of the paste being thicker which can itself result in a higher temperature drop.

GD900 is good to 392°F (200°C), while the other two are only good to 248°F (120°C)


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 7, 2022)

Andy Shiekh said:


> GD900 is good to 392°F (200°C), while the other two are only good to 248°F (120°C)


I really don't think that'll ever be a problem for PCs. Just throwing it out there...


----------



## freeagent (Jan 7, 2022)

My pc reboots at just over a 100c so looks like there might some wiggle room there.


----------



## Shrek (Jan 7, 2022)

Maybe I should not have mentioned the top operating temperatures, as the main point was increasing thermal conductivity seemed to have led to decreasing performance.

My point being that thermal conductivity is not the only factor to take into consideration.


----------



## MaddoggMiranda (Jan 7, 2022)

In my experience's Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut is my go to its definitely one of the best if not the best before going Liquid Metal route, Second to that i use Arctic MX-4.


----------



## doyll (Jan 11, 2022)

What duskw4lker said.
I switched from Thermalright CFIII to Thermalright TFX a couple years ago and saw definite improvement.  I warm tube (w/ hot water in summer or on radiator in winter) up before applying so it's nice and soft. 
Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut is rated 12.5 W/mk 
Thermalright TFX is rated 14.3 W/mk.
That's 1.8 W/mk better.


----------



## freeagent (Jan 11, 2022)

Good to see you @doyll


----------



## Franz (Jan 12, 2022)

Andy Shiekh said:


> And yet it seems to be up there with the very best.
> (1) Best thermal paste for laptop: Arctic MX-4, Zalman ZM-STG2, Noctua NT-H1, GD900 - Bing video
> 
> I have a theory that the thick pastes (good for longevity) do not do well if they were applied too generously.


Thats gd900 is that tube?


----------



## Shrek (Jan 13, 2022)

I prefer the tub


----------



## cvaldes (Jan 13, 2022)

Is the stuff in a tub any better than the same stuff in a syringe?

Perhaps it's pure luck but the CPUs/GPUs I've repasted the past year don't seem to require followup repasting. A couple of small syringes seem to be adequate for my needs.

I can see how a tub of this stuff might be useful if you were running a popular PC repair shop (or the PC media site test lab) but I don't see much of a usage case for Joe Consumer.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 13, 2022)

cvaldes said:


> Is the stuff in a tub any better than the same stuff in a syringe?


It's likely the exact same stuff made in the same plant on different production lines.


----------



## Franz (Jan 13, 2022)

GerKNG said:


> Kryonaut can have some mediocre batches where you have liquid sandpaper.


I wish read that earlier, I think got the sandpaper batch here


----------



## oobymach (Jan 13, 2022)

Franz said:


> I wish read that earlier, I think got the sandpaper batch here


Most expensive paste on the market and they released a legit crap batch and it's still circulating unfortunately. I got one too, luckily I only bought the 1g tube but yeah, lesson learned, now I use NT-H2 and Mastergel Pro V2 which are top performing non-electrically conductive pastes and also easier to use and cheaper than kryonaut and perform better.


----------



## Ferrum Master (Jan 13, 2022)

oobymach said:


> NT-H2



One of the worst PoS paste out there. Low shelf life, abysmal pump out effect.


----------



## oobymach (Jan 13, 2022)

Ferrum Master said:


> One of the worst PoS paste out there. Low shelf life, abysmal pump out effect.


One mans trash, performs better than kryonaut and for less money and is easy to work with, buy what you want but for my money NT-H2 is one of the best pastes out there.


----------



## Ferrum Master (Jan 13, 2022)

oobymach said:


> One mans trash, performs better than kryonaut and for less money and is easy to work with, buy what you want but for my money NT-H2 is one of the best pastes out there.



Stick with MX-2 or MX-4 and call it a day. Seriously NT-H2 is one of the worst pastes for long term usage.


----------



## Franz (Jan 13, 2022)

oobymach said:


> Most expensive paste on the market and they released a legit crap batch and it's still circulating unfortunately. I got one too, luckily I only bought the 1g tube but yeah, lesson learned, now I use NT-H2 and Mastergel Pro V2 which are top performing non-electrically conductive pastes and also easier to use and cheaper than kryonaut and perform better.


I will try the very cheap gd900. From mx4 to that kryonaut I dont notice some improvement and it made a very long and deep scratch when I cleaned the cold plate. I need to check again, I was tired and have no other paste to switch.... I hope it not damaged my cooler


----------



## oobymach (Jan 13, 2022)

Ferrum Master said:


> Stick with MX-2 or MX-4 and call it a day. Seriously NT-H2 is one of the worst pastes for long term usage.





Franz said:


> I will try the very cheap gd900. From mx4 to that kryonaut I dont notice some improvement and it made a very long and deep scratch when I cleaned the cold plate. I need to check again, I was tired and have no other paste to switch.... I hope it not damaged my cooler



Yeah I looked into what pump out effect was and though I haven't seen it myself I'll take your word for it as I have seen that effect on some pastes (usually the factory stuff they glob on during manufacturing).

Arctic Mx-4 is a great paste but there are better options notably MasterGel V2 (I recently bought some after seeing performance reviews) which dropped my temps from factory goop by 5 degrees on my gpu. I haven't tested the NT-H2 yet I just assume it's a thicker version of NT-H1 which was/is a decent paste but not as good a performer as the newer stuff which is only $30 for a 10g tube, the Mastergel was $20 for 1.5g, kryonaut is $40 a gram and up right now and there are still bad batch tubes floating around.

I have many different thermal paste packets from over the years and the best so far imo MasterGel V2. No idea on longevity for it but it's a great performer and fairly easy to use.


----------



## Franz (Jan 14, 2022)

oobymach said:


> Yeah I looked into what pump out effect was and though I haven't seen it myself I'll take your word for it as I have seen that effect on some pastes (usually the factory stuff they glob on during manufacturing).
> 
> Arctic Mx-4 is a great paste but there are better options notably MasterGel V2 (I recently bought some after seeing performance reviews) which dropped my temps from factory goop by 5 degrees on my gpu. I haven't tested the NT-H2 yet I just assume it's a thicker version of NT-H1 which was/is a decent paste but not as good a performer as the newer stuff which is only $30 for a 10g tube, the Mastergel was $20 for 1.5g, kryonaut is $40 a gram and up right now and there are still bad batch tubes floating around.
> 
> I have many different thermal paste packets from over the years and the best so far imo MasterGel V2. No idea on longevity for it but it's a great performer and fairly easy to use.


Whats the pump effect?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 14, 2022)

Franz said:


> Whats the pump effect?


None. Pump-out effect is a rarity nearly to the point of being a total myth. It's not worth being concerned about.


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (Jan 14, 2022)

Franz said:


> Whats the pump effect?



The hypothesis that compound trapped between heat source and cold plate will migrate out over time due to the combination of mounting pressure and thermal expansion/contraction.  There's considerable debate over whether it happens to any appreciable degree, and if it has any measurable negative effects if so.  Folks are generally more concerned about it in bare-die configs.


----------



## FreedomEclipse (Jan 14, 2022)

jhelton48 said:


> I use IC Diamond Thermal Compound.



I honestly wouldnt



(TL;DR)


----------



## Borc (Jan 14, 2022)

oobymach said:


> Most expensive paste on the market and they released a legit crap batch and it's still circulating unfortunately. I got one too, luckily I only bought the 1g tube but yeah, lesson learned, now I use NT-H2 and Mastergel Pro V2 which are top performing non-electrically conductive pastes and also easier to use and cheaper than kryonaut and perform better.




I wouldn't say it performs better, in fact for most people and in most of the tests Kryonaut outperforms NT-H2.

The new Coolermaster Cryofuze has got some good user and test reports. I just found this test: https://unikoshardware.com/2021/12/cooler-master-cryofuze-cf14-review.html

About 1 degree better than MasterGel Maker and 2 degrees better than MasterGel Pro.


----------



## Franz (Jan 14, 2022)

FreedomEclipse said:


> I honestly wouldnt
> 
> 
> 
> (TL;DR)


Man, the liquidsand paper attacks again


----------



## Shrek (Jan 14, 2022)

doyll said:


> What duskw4lker said.
> I switched from Thermalright CFIII to Thermalright TFX a couple years ago and saw definite improvement.  I warm tube (w/ hot water in summer or on radiator in winter) up before applying so it's nice and soft.
> Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut is rated 12.5 W/mk
> Thermalright TFX is rated 14.3 W/mk.
> That's 1.8 W/mk better.



Is it better?








						The Official Thermal Interface Material thread
					

Hi all,  I have just bought an Intel Core i5 12600K and was wondering which is the best way to put thermal paste on it. Usually I use the "pea" drop technique but that is for "square" CPU. Since  LGA 1700 is a rectangle I'm not quite sure how to put thermal paste on it. I have a Gigabyte AiO...




					www.techpowerup.com
				






Franz said:


> Whats the pump effect?


P10 of the attached document

(1) Der8auer Deep-Dives on Thermal Paste: Misconceptions, Curing, & More | LTX 2019 - Bing video
10:30


----------



## Franz (Jan 14, 2022)

Its very confuse those charts about thermal paste, some say one is better and other no......

I think will go to the cheapest is the way


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 15, 2022)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Is it better?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First, why the linking of a Bing search result instead of linking the direct Youtube video?









Second, the AMD PDF you attached is from April 2004 and is now well an truly out of date, only applied to certain types of TIMs available at the time and then only under extreme OC conditions. Modern TIMs do not suffer from pump out. And as it is the ONLY real document on the subject from an official source, that should tell how concerned industry engineers are about the subject(read: they are not).

Third, While Der8auer is a smart guy, he has yet to show that pump out happens on a widespread basis instead of under very limited scenario's that actually take place and the normal user will never encounter.

Pump-out effect is a non-issue. It *does not happen* for the common user in normal use case scenario's for 99% of TIM's commonly available, even for bare die applications.


----------



## Shrek (Jan 15, 2022)

Was just answering the question "Whats the pump effect?"

Intel: replace thermal compound “every few years” (ctrl.blog)
How to Avoid Pump-out and Achieve Efficient Heat Transfer - Electrolube
Thermal Interface Materials: A Brief Review of Design Characteristics and Materials | Electronics Cooling (electronics-cooling.com)
Seem to conclude that TIMS that cure are free from pump-out effects

P18 of the attached SEMIKRON file is more recent than the AMD TIM file attached earlier.


----------



## maxfly (Jan 15, 2022)

Overapplication makes it seem as if there has been pump out. When in fact its just excess paste. The problem is most people don't bother checking their initial mount, they simply apply the tim. Then reapply when they replace the cpu or see temps go up in a few years. I think that's where most of these pump out stories come from imo.


----------



## Shrek (Jan 15, 2022)

maxfly said:


> Then reapply when they replace the cpu or see temps go up in a few years.



But why are the temperatures going up after a few years?


----------



## Borc (Jan 16, 2022)

Andy Shiekh said:


> But why are the temperatures going up after a few years?



The paste dries out, it's a common problem on notebook CPUs. I think it is related to a bad heatsink contact. Some pastes are drying out faster. On my laptop the temps dropped a few degrees after just 2-3 months using Thermalright TFX, this paste has great initial performance but poor longevity. Sure on a desktop CPUs it should be a non issue and likely on better notebook heatsinks as well (at least I would hope so). No issue on my desktop with Coolermaster MasterGel Maker.


----------



## Shrek (Jan 16, 2022)

And that is where my comment








						The Official Thermal Interface Material thread
					

Hi all,  I have just bought an Intel Core i5 12600K and was wondering which is the best way to put thermal paste on it. Usually I use the "pea" drop technique but that is for "square" CPU. Since  LGA 1700 is a rectangle I'm not quite sure how to put thermal paste on it. I have a Gigabyte AiO...




					www.techpowerup.com
				



might be of utility

"GD900 is good to 392°F (200°C), while the other two are only good to 248°F (120°C)"

A paste good to 200°C is probably not going to age near as fast as a paste good to 120°C.

One must remember that the Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution for one temperature means that there are still higher energy molecules around.

Applying Arrhenius' law (probably dangerous), the person operating the 120°C grease at 100°C will probably see 4 times the life; good but maybe not good enough if one wants it to last a long time.


----------



## maxfly (Jan 16, 2022)

Andy Shiekh said:


> But why are the temperatures going up after a few years?


In my experience, it's from heatsinks, case filters, vents and fans having gotten dirty more than anything.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 16, 2022)

I just use spread method and then drop heatsink on twist gently and lock it down.


----------



## doyll (Jan 16, 2022)

Hi @freeagent.  Don't spend much time here but should.  It's good forum. 
I am now using TF8 with 13.8 W/mk rating and like them.  Both are on the firm side at room temp.  Sticking tube in hot water for about 10 minutes softens it up nicely.


----------



## Ferrum Master (Jan 17, 2022)

Andy Shiekh said:


> But why are the temperatures going up after a few years?



I wondering, despite you posting so many documents and evidence... no there is no pump effect claims...

Yea sure. It is and especially with this shit Noctua paste I got burned with. It is fine like for few days for benchmarks.

Your documents describe the exact problem with it, too much filler.



Andy Shiekh said:


> But why are the temperatures going up after a few years?



Taken from their site.





I would suggest stop posting BS for some. 3 years? Only Five years on CPU? Why? Because this paste is really shit and let's end this debate. The shelf life for Arctics are 8 years. I got it separated from filler only after a year on several devices. After that, I blacklisted NT-H2.

As usual my choice for bare die, industrial use is MX-2 as it more thick and less prone to pump out. Shin Etsu as industrial de facto has shelf life of 1 year, thus the idea of repasting the OEM crap always does give result. Nothing lasts forever.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 17, 2022)

Ferrum Master said:


> As usual my choice for bare die, industrial use is MX-2


You should really give MX-5 a go.



Ferrum Master said:


> as it more thick and less prone to pump out.


Let's all say it together again:

Pump out effect is a *MYTH* and does not happen, even on bare dies!

Moving on...


----------



## Ferrum Master (Jan 17, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> You should really give MX-5 a go.
> 
> 
> Let's all say it together again:
> ...



Did you read the documents Andy gave? So you back up your words on what? Youtube channel starlets?

I use variety of TIM for my personal experiments, but I won't risk to do such nonsense for others/professional needs. MX-5 is really good so far, but it is still unproven to be taken seriously.


----------



## Shrek (Jan 17, 2022)

It was not my intention to cause any aggravation.

I just happened to be interested in such things even if I would prefer my thermal paste last decades.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 17, 2022)

Ferrum Master said:


> Did you read the documents Andy gave?


You mean the one single document from April of 2004? It's the only document of any credibility and describes very limited instances of the effect which do NOT apply to modern TIMs or use cases.


Ferrum Master said:


> So you back up your words on what?


Nothing, that's the point. Other than the nearly 20 year old SINGLE document from AMD, there is nothing to be found of any scientific merit.


Ferrum Master said:


> Youtube channel starlets?


Nothing of any merit either way, including the minor quips from GN & Der8auer. Why you ask? Because the effect is limited to extreme situations and is a total myth in the general computing sectors.

I am not required to prove the non-existence of a thing, you are required to prove it does exist.


----------



## Shrek (Jan 17, 2022)

Here is the more recent (2018) document (P18) that was also attached above and these more recent articles (also repeated from above)

2020 How to Avoid Pump-out and Achieve Efficient Heat Transfer - Electrolube
2020 Intel: replace thermal compound “every few years” (ctrl.blog)


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Jan 17, 2022)

Maenad said:


> That was the shit here in Finland about 15 years ago, nobody here uses that anymore.


I've been using Antec Formula 7 in the late-2010s and most recently, Thermaltake TG-50.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 17, 2022)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Here is the more recent (2018) document (P18) that was also attached above and these more recent articles (also repeated from above)
> 
> 2020 How to Avoid Pump-out and Achieve Efficient Heat Transfer - Electrolube
> 2020 Intel: replace thermal compound “every few years” (ctrl.blog)


Neither of those articles shows anything other than conclusions without the testing science to support those claims. It is effectively hear-say. For example, the photo of the ctrl.blog article does not show anything other than evidence of poor TIM application, which is far more common and plausible than pump-out effect.

Additionally, the pdf you attached is a general discussion piece and does not offer evidence of the effect. The only mention is on page 18, section 7.1 and does not make much of an explanation. This is not evidence. It is only more hear-say.


----------



## Shrek (Jan 17, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Additionally, the pdf you attached is a general discussion piece and does not offer evidence of the effect. The only mention is on page 18, section 7.1 and does not make much of an explanation. This is not evidence. It is only more hear-say.



P19 covers the evidence (Fig 27)


			https://www.semikron.com/dl/service-support/downloads/download/semikron-application-note-thermal-paste-application-en-2018-01-19-rev-00/


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (Jan 17, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Neither of those articles shows anything other than conclusions without the testing science to support those claims. It is effectively hear-say. For example, the photo of the ctrl.blog article does not show anything other than evidence of poor TIM application, which is far more common and plausible than pump-out effect.
> 
> Additionally, the pdf you attached is a general discussion piece and does not offer evidence of the effect. The only mention is on page 18, section 7.1 and does not make much of an explanation. This is not evidence. It is only more hear-say.



You're sticking to your position with almost religious fervor.  Why?  It's true that the ctrl.blog and Electrolube articles are just that: articles rather than studies.  However, Electrolube is a manufacturer of thermal solutions.  It's a little hard to believe they'd spend time on a non-existent phenomenon.  Semikron is a provider of power soutions, including IC and MOSFET.  While Andy's source isn't meant to address pump-out specifically, the fact that it's included as a concern gives the concept some weight considering the source.  Call it all hearsay if you like, but the entities doing the saying are in something of a position of knowledge.

The ctrl.blog article also references a couple of additional sources not mentioned here, one from the National Renewal Energy Laboratory (pp. 4-5), and another from Intel (pp. 7-8). If your claim is that pump-out is of minimal concern in the PC space due to the state of modern components and compounds, sure; I'm on board.  To unilaterally declare the effect a myth is a tougher position to support.

EDIT: Corrected article reference to ctrl.blog (erroneously credited Intel originally)


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 17, 2022)

Andy Shiekh said:


> P19 covers the evidence (Fig 27)
> 
> 
> https://www.semikron.com/dl/service-support/downloads/download/semikron-application-note-thermal-paste-application-en-2018-01-19-rev-00/


That photo shows little more than paste that has been spread thin by very flat surfaces, nothing more. I have seen this in situations were the heatplate and IHS of a CPU has been laped flat and smooth.



80-watt Hamster said:


> You're sticking to your position with almost religious fervor. Why?


I am a scientist. I do not accept claims which fly in the face of common sense without merit. Nor are papers written to look official that do not cite proper and verifiable data acceptable. So until someone shows evidence that "pumpout effect" actually takes place in situations other than extreme temp swings, I will stand firm and continue to call it what it is, myth.


----------



## AlwaysHope (Jan 18, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Neither of those articles shows anything other than conclusions without the testing science to support those claims. It is effectively hear-say. For example, the photo of the ctrl.blog article does not show anything other than evidence of poor TIM application, which is far more common and plausible than pump-out effect.
> ...


This so called 'pump-out' effect is nothing more than an excuse for poor TIM application. The thinking is, if some is good then more is better. Adequate TIM is all that is needed, not too much! Like a lot of things in life, its a balance concept.


----------



## Ferrum Master (Jan 19, 2022)

Hey scientists

Take a look on this. Recommend more stuff to someone else, what's yet very unproven.









						PR | ARCTIC MX-5 paste
					

ARCTIC Press Information on MX-5 Thermal Compound




					www.arctic.de


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 19, 2022)

Ferrum Master said:


> Hey scientists
> 
> Take a look on this. Recommend more stuff to someone else, what's yet very unproven.
> 
> ...


Oh, you mean what's been talked about already here;








						ARCTIC Identifies Bad Batch of MX-5 TIM in the Market, Offers Free Replacements
					

For ARCTIC, it has always been a top priority to supply customers only with products of the best quality and durability. Should there ever be any doubts about products we've delivered, we stand by our responsibility to our customers.  Current findings from our permanent quality assurance tests...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




Yeah, you can stop with your condescending trolling smart guy.


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (Jan 19, 2022)

Ferrum Master said:


> Hey scientists
> 
> Take a look on this. Recommend more stuff to someone else, what's yet very unproven.
> 
> ...



Shizz happens in manufacturing.  Even Toyota, as close to a paragon of reliability as exists in the automotive world, has recalls.


----------



## Bones (Jan 19, 2022)

I covered this some time ago, just to recap what I posted:








						"Pump-out Effect" Is it real or is it nonsense? Let's discuss...
					

@plastisch  Can you point me to thermal paste that have 18W m/k?




					www.techpowerup.com
				




Hope this helps to clear things up here.


----------



## Ferrum Master (Jan 19, 2022)

80-watt Hamster said:


> Shizz happens in manufacturing.  Even Toyota, as close to a paragon of reliability as exists in the automotive world, has recalls.



Thus you don't recommend a product that's been around recently. That's really scientific ain't it. You can do experiments on your own as you wish. But recommend? 

Same as with Pump Effect. Denial of the obvious works for sure. Recent TIM have problems with shelf life and stability, thus ir returned to proven chemistry for the price of 1 degree C but I know that stuff for more than a decade.


----------



## Shrek (Jan 19, 2022)

I think pump-out can be mitigated by having the right fan profile such that the chip stays hot even when idle; I believe this is already done on video cards to reduce solder fatigue.


----------



## Bones (Jan 19, 2022)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I think pump-out can be mitigated by having the right fan profile such that the chip stays hot even when idle; I belive this is already done on video cards to reduce solder fatigue.


Actually no - The parts still cool down when the machine is turned off so you still have thermal expansion and contraction taking place. 
As for letting a chip get hot I'm not a big fan of that even though they can take it - I've never liked my fan not running while the card is working and that only means less thermal headroom while the card is in use.


----------



## Ferrum Master (Jan 19, 2022)

Bones said:


> Actually no - The parts still cool down when the machine is turned off so you still have thermal expansion and contraction taking place.
> As for letting a chip get hot I'm not a big fan of that even though they can take it - I've never liked my fan not running while the card is working and that only means less thermal headroom while the card is in use.



The problem ain't that bad with high viscosity pastes in my experience. The problem seems to be also the filler, the newer pastes are even more prone to it. Looking at graphs the temperature diference actually doesn't need to be that big to provoke the effect. So all things together, bad filling material of the paste, heatsink surface, geometry, pressure and temperature variation. If you want a paste that lives long, you have to take consideration of all these things.

There is only one article online on IEEE.org also viewing recent consumer TIMs, but that's a paid one.

Although no one is denying that the effect is real there.


----------



## Bones (Jan 19, 2022)

Ferrum Master said:


> The problem ain't that bad with high viscosity pastes in my experience. The problem seems to be also the filler, the newer pastes are even more prone to it. Looking at graphs the temperature diference actually doesn't need to be that big to provoke the effect. So all things together, bad filling material of the paste, heatsink surface, geometry, pressure and temperature variation. If you want a paste that lives long, you have to take consideration of all these things.
> 
> There is only one article online on IEEE.org also viewing recent consumer TIMs, but that's a paid one.
> 
> Although no one is denying that the effect is real there.


Yeah, thicker TIMs don't tend to "Move" as readily as thinner TIM's and in some cases a thinner TIM is better, in others it's not. 
As for a TIM that stays a thicker TIM is better for that but again, there are cases in which a thinner TIM does just fine and even stays in place too. 

It's all a matter of application to what hardware and TIM is used and the conditions the hardware lives under that determines what goes in the end along with _proper_ application of the TIM itself to the hardware for use.


----------



## Shrek (Jan 19, 2022)

Bones said:


> Actually no - The parts still cool down when the machine is turned off so you still have thermal expansion and contraction taking place.



mitigated: make less severe, serious, or painful.

Not eliminated.



Ferrum Master said:


> The problem ain't that bad with high viscosity pastes in my experience.



The problem is gone with pastes that cure.


----------



## Bones (Jan 20, 2022)

Andy Shiekh said:


> *mitigated: make less severe, serious, or painful.*
> 
> Not eliminated.
> 
> ...


Yes and no - Concerning mitigation, It still goes up to the temp it does while operating and once you shut the machine down it still cools down fully to room temp regardless of how the fans are set up.

If it's normally seeing 85-90c while running under load, that's where your thermals will be even if there is a lesser thermal variance while in operation once it reaches temperature.
You can't keep it from cooling down fully once you shut off the machine which brings the other end of the thermal range into play, that means it still sees the full range of temp variance anyway.

It may take longer to happen (Mitigation), this is true but the end result is still about the same once all is said and done.


----------



## Shrek (Jan 20, 2022)

I'm a believer!


----------



## VeqIR (Jan 24, 2022)

I installed my CPU last April (i9-10900KF) and used a fresh container of TG Kryonaut from Microcenter.  Since then I've been worried whether my batch was one of the bad scratchy ones, but haven't felt like repasting until there was need with rising temperature.  Lately the temperatures have not been great at all--today spiking up to upper 80s...  I decided it was really time for the change.

Upon removing the air cooler tower I found that the Kryonaut was pretty liquidy (it was recently warmed by CPU activity) and there were lots of spaces that were pretty much empty of the paste.  I had bolted down the CPU cooler very tightly before, so it wasn't really poor contact.  But that certainly explained the performance degradation.

Cleaned everything up and thankfully didn't really find scratches on the cooling plate or the CPU except one 2mm long one on both, which I know was not there before.  It's minor enough that I just won't worry about it at all.

Changed to Noctua NT-H2 applied with an X.  Normally I do a thin spread but decided to try Noctua's officially recommended method for this paste.  Bolted down very tightly again.  Excellent temperatures right away!  I feel like even lower than TGK used to do when I first used it last year.  In one game where I was seeing mid 40s to mid 50sC and spikes to mid-upper 70s with TGK in the recent months and to upper 80s today.  Now the CPU has been sitting at around 33-36C on all cores, going up to 45-47C in spikes while in a game!  The highest temp on the CPU since I turned it on a few hours ago is 56C for package temp and 54C per individual core (I've had HWiNFO64 running in the background), and I'm doing all the normal stuff so far that I usually do.

Glad my Kryonaut was a tiny tube, I won't be using it again...  I know 10 months of use is not terribly short, but in the past my paste jobs lasted much longer than that without such drastic deterioration.  My other contender instead of NT-H2 was SYY-157, but I found that one super hard to use in the past.  NT-H2 has been very easy to use--I've had it going on my family member's desktop for a few months so far, also with excellent temperatures and no noticeable degradation so far.

P.S.: my previous go-to paste prior to last year was AC MX-4.   It was alright, didn't really have any issues with it.  Longevity was fine, but not great.  Much much better than TGK though.  Hoping NT-H2 holds up.  Now I have to open up a desktop I listed on Craigslist and remove TGC in favor of NT-H2 or SYY-157...  Don't want someone else experiencing this performance deterioration too fast and not knowing what to do about it.


----------



## -batab- (Jan 26, 2022)

AlwaysHope said:


> This so called 'pump-out' effect is nothing more than an excuse for poor TIM application. The thinking is, if some is good then more is better. Adequate TIM is all that is needed, not too much! Like a lot of things in life, its a balance concept.



The so-called "pump-out" effect exists and it is actually well-known among scientists with expertise in similar fields. It is even mentioned in very recent scientific literature such as "Thermomechanical Degradation of Thermal Interface Materials: Accelerated Test Development and Reliability Analysis" by Carlton et al. (DOI link:  https://doi.org/10.1115/1.4047099 ).
They even refer to a recent scientific review "Novel nanostructured thermal interface materials: a review" by Hansson et al. (DOI link: https://doi.org/10.1080/09506608.2017.1301014 ).

So yeah, the phenomenon is well-known and also perfectly reasonable to anyone with a background in solid mechanics and thermomechanical interactions.

Also, even if i didn't take photos I just repasted my 7820HK + 1060 GTX laptop after 5 years of Kryonaut. Kryonaut was not dried out and still has a nice viscosity but was completely pumped out. I was basically running with no paste and I lowered my temps by 25-30°C by applying (horribly, since last time I applied a thermal paste was 8 years ago) a Thermalright TFX.



Bones said:


> Actually no - The parts still cool down when the machine is turned off so you still have thermal expansion and contraction taking place.
> As for letting a chip get hot I'm not a big fan of that even though they can take it - I've never liked my fan not running while the card is working and that only means less thermal headroom while the card is in use.



Actually yes since this is what fatigue damage is about. Fatigue is a cumulative damage phenomenon and while peak values are important, the number of cycles at that specific temperature amplitude is also important. If they are really reducing the cooling to reduce the operative temperature range they are most likely doing something very benificial from a structural point of view. The number of cycles caused be power ON/shut down operations is vastly inferior than the number of cycles during a single "powered ON" time window and high cycle and ultra high cycle fatigue are usually in the range of millions or billions cycles.


----------



## Shrek (Jan 26, 2022)

Absolutely

I was happy to have the opportunity to present data, and I respect a person's right to question that data.


----------



## watzupken (Jun 2, 2022)

AlwaysHope said:


> This so called 'pump-out' effect is nothing more than an excuse for poor TIM application. The thinking is, if some is good then more is better. Adequate TIM is all that is needed, not too much! Like a lot of things in life, its a balance concept.


I don’t agree. I think you kind of over simplified the issue. I believe the issue caused by “pump out”effect can be replicated even with people that have been applying thermal compound the ”right“ way (whatever right way means). Assuming the same amount of TIM used between say Arctic MX4/5 or even Thermal Grizzly‘s thermal compound, versus say SYY-157 or TFX, over time you will noticed that the latter 2 holds up better when they are applied on bare die where temps can swing drastically. 

I think any experienced hardware enthusiast will know not to spam TIM, but apply an amount that they think is sufficient (with may be a little more just in case). Even if they do over apply, it will just get squeezed out to the sides when there is pressure from the mount, which should not negatively impact cooling tangibly.


----------



## Shrek (Jun 2, 2022)

From an old thread








						Re-paste my 2080Ti, idle and load temp significantly down
					

So my 2080Ti has been overclocked mildly most of the time. As it is approaching 2yrs old I decided to check the thermal paste as I have been seeing some weird fan behavior. Basically when core temp gets to around 80C under load the fan will suddenly spike to 100% no matter what fan curve I set...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




Pump out? reason I suggest this is because there is paste all along the outside edge.

I'm asking; not trying to start a dispute.


----------



## AlwaysHope (Jun 2, 2022)

-batab- said:


> The so-called "pump-out" effect exists and it is actually well-known among scientists with expertise in similar fields. It is even mentioned in very recent scientific literature such as "Thermomechanical Degradation of Thermal Interface Materials: Accelerated Test Development and Reliability Analysis" by Carlton et al. (DOI link:  https://doi.org/10.1115/1.4047099 ).
> They even refer to a recent scientific review "Novel nanostructured thermal interface materials: a review" by Hansson et al. (DOI link: https://doi.org/10.1080/09506608.2017.1301014 ).
> 
> So yeah, the phenomenon is well-known and also perfectly reasonable to anyone with a background in solid mechanics and thermomechanical interactions.
> ...





watzupken said:


> I don’t agree. I think you kind of over simplified the issue. I believe the issue caused by “pump out”effect can be replicated even with people that have been applying thermal compound the ”right“ way (whatever right way means). Assuming the same amount of TIM used between say Arctic MX4/5 or even Thermal Grizzly‘s thermal compound, versus say SYY-157 or TFX, over time you will noticed that the latter 2 holds up better when they are applied on bare die where temps can swing drastically.
> 
> I think any experienced hardware enthusiast will know not to spam TIM, but apply an amount that they think is sufficient (with may be a little more just in case). Even if they do over apply, it will just get squeezed out to the sides when there is pressure from the mount, which should not negatively impact cooling tangibly.


Let's get into the semantics of what "pump out" means with TIM right here
I agree with the OP of that thread, its a nonsense term.


----------



## erocker (Jun 2, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Pump out? reason I suggest this is because there is paste all along the outside edge.
> 
> I'm asking; not trying to start a dispute.


Nah. The pressure distribution during mounting and placement of the paste most likely resulted in where paste spread out over the IHS.


----------



## SpittinFax (Jun 2, 2022)

AlwaysHope said:


> Let's get into the semantics of what "pump out" means with TIM right here
> I agree with the OP of that thread, its a nonsense term.



Pump out is definitely a nonsense term. We can debate until the end of time about pump out because it involves too many variables that are impossible to quantify. Application life, dryout (chemical stability), heat cycle duty, the type of cooler used and application technique all have some kind of impact on the concept of "pump out". It's just too unclear and it muddies the water.

I've seen many conversations on pump out and they always lead nowhere, with the conclusion always being something like "well it can't be tested, but it exists, so it's an important consideration and I'll argue with anyone who disagrees". Waste of time to even talk about it.


----------



## delshay (Jun 2, 2022)

I'm not an expert, but this is how I look at thermal paste.

When it dry's out, I look at what's left behind filling in the tiny gaps. Those tiny material/particles must now do it's work when the moisture is all gone. This is where I think the material that's filling in the gaps is now important. So here you want the best material that conducts heat.

After Diamond, "Silver" is the next best conductor of heat, this is why I have stuck with Arctic Silver 5, It contains real particles of silver tested in a Lab many years ago. It's the performance when moisture is no longer available. This part is important to me. My laptop has Arctic Silver 5 & i applied it about 8 or 9 years ago with no real issues.

TLDR see link below

Top 10 Thermally Conductive Materials (thermtest.com)


----------



## Shrek (Jun 2, 2022)

But silver can oxidize, so I prefer something like zinc oxide or aluminum nitride which is done reacting.

Artic silver 5 is slightly capacitive
Arctic Silver Incorporated - Arctic Silver 5


----------



## freeagent (Jun 2, 2022)

So it’s slightly capacitive.. it has been that way since the early 2000s.. I don’t recall hearing anyone who lost parts because of sloppy use of AS5.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 2, 2022)

Shrek said:


> But silver can oxidize, so I prefer something like zinc oxide or aluminum nitride which is done reacting.


Not in the formulation used in AS5. Zinc Oxide or Aluminium Nitride do not conduct heat as well as Silver.



Shrek said:


> Artic silver 5 is slightly capacitive
> Arctic Silver Incorporated - Arctic Silver 5


As long as it is not applied like a monkey flinging it's poo, that is not a problem.


----------



## Blaeza (Jun 19, 2022)

Arctic MX2, good or bad?  Repasted my 1660 super yesterday and it seems alright so far.


----------



## GerKNG (Jun 19, 2022)

JKRsega said:


> Arctic MX2, good or bad?  Repasted my 1660 super yesterday and it seems alright so far.


not the best performing paste in the world but there is like 2°C between low and high end paste. (MX4 and Kryonaut Extreme is basically identical on my 12700k)
but it's just a 1660 Super and not a 3090.


----------



## P4-630 (Jun 19, 2022)

Using Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme , the pink bubblegum.
When I was building my new build I accidentally installed the CPU cooler the wrong way around, so had to dissasemble again.
This time had a chance though to see if my CPU IHS was still straight, and it was, no issues.

The pink bubblegum works well for me and the CPU temp doesn't reach 60c during the day, even during gaming mostly just under 50c.
Highest temp I have seen was 71c on one core during 10 minutes multi core Cinebench R23, not bad at all for air cooling a i7 12700K.

BTW I used the "spread" method, and seems to work well.


----------



## Blaeza (Jun 19, 2022)

That Kryonaut has got me tempted, but I'll be getting NTH1 free with the Noctua NH U12A I've found at a BARGAIN price.  Just got to ignore that it's brown.


----------



## P4-630 (Jun 19, 2022)

JKRsega said:


> Noctua NH U12A



Great little 7-heatpipe cooler!! One of the best performing coolers out there.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 19, 2022)

JKRsega said:


> Arctic MX2, good or bad? Repasted my 1660 super yesterday and it seems alright so far.


Good. Carry on!



GerKNG said:


> but there is like 2°C between low and high end paste.


Exactly. To say something isn't the best in the world when we're talking about differences of 0.8% to 1.3% is a bit disingenuous..


----------



## Blaeza (Jun 19, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> Great little 7-heatpipe cooler!! One of the best performing coolers out there.


I know and will go well with the 5800X bargain I've found too both brand new too


----------



## Shrek (Jun 19, 2022)

Shrek said:


> But silver can oxidize, so I prefer something like zinc oxide or aluminum nitride which is done reacting.



Actually, I'd like to question this!

In the thermite reaction iron oxide gives up its oxygen to aluminum powder, so one must be careful to use the right oxide or things are *not* 'done reacting';
fortunately the people who make thermal compound know this, unlike stupid me.


----------



## P4-630 (Jun 19, 2022)

JKRsega said:


> I know and will go well with the 5800X bargain I've found too both brand new too



Nice upgrades incoming man!


----------



## Blaeza (Jun 19, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> Nice upgrades incoming man!


Later this year, need 1440p monitor and RTX 3070/6750XT first.  I'm unfortunately not printing money out my buttocks.


----------



## Muck Muster (Jun 20, 2022)

Artic MX-4. I've used it for years. Never had issues. always stayed cool.
Even used it on a Vega64. In the same die block with the GPU, HBM memory sits next to it, at an uneven height. Gave it a little bit more MX4 to even it out and it ran it OC with temps under 50c. Used a Raijintek Morpheus 2 cooler and the Vega64 ran under 40c.. .  using Artic MX-4.


----------



## cvaldes (Jun 20, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> BTW I used the "spread" method, and seems to work well.


I'm curious. What is the "spread" method?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 20, 2022)

cvaldes said:


> I'm curious. What is the "spread" method?


Spreading the TIM flat & even across the entire surface of the CPU/IHS. See below.

Noctua NT-H1


Copper Grease


Arctic MX-5


----------



## delshay (Jun 20, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Spreading the TIM flat & even across the entire surface of the CPU/IHS. See below.
> View attachment 251648View attachment 251649
> Noctua NT-H1
> 
> ...



When I apply thermal paste, I want it just cover the shape of the core. Excessive paste where the IHS is not making contact with the cold plate will act as a blanket. The same rule is applied here when it come's to thermal pads. What i'm trying to say here is, the thermal paste on the coldplate should be just over the complete shape of the IHS. Excessive thermal paste on the coldplate where there is zero contact with the IHS effectively is trapping a little heat. Note that everyone has they preferred preference/method which works.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 20, 2022)

delshay said:


> When I apply thermal paste, I want it just cover the shape of the core.


And while that can work, there is something to be said about covering the entire surface of the IHS for maximum surface contact and heat transfer.


delshay said:


> Excessive paste where the IHS is not making contact with the cold plate will act as a blanket.


I think there is a misunderstanding. Those photos are showing a very small amount of TIM spread across the surface. In a couple of those photos you can see through the TIM to the surface. This is the way it should be applied. What little excess there is ends up being squished out the sides as the heatsink is secured.


delshay said:


> Excessive thermal paste on the coldplate where there is zero contact with the IHS effectively is trapping a little heat.


I've seen no empirical evidence that such takes place...


delshay said:


> Note that everyone has they preferred preference/method which works.


Agreed, to each there own. At the end of the day, as long as there is good contact between the CPU & heatsink, thermal performance will be good.


----------



## ThrashZone (Jun 20, 2022)

Hi,
Yeah spread or large X both work pretty well
.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 20, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yeah spread or large X both work pretty well
> .


Exactly this. I'd like to see him do this again but with a thicker glass square.


----------



## Toss (Jun 20, 2022)

I hate paste, all troubles are because of that.
My paste in GPU dried out somehow in 1 year, repasted today, temps from 100C to 70C LUL


----------



## ThrashZone (Jun 20, 2022)

Hi,
I should of taken a picture of my evga 1080ti ftw3 stock paste after less than 1 year
It looked like a cracked and crushed cookie was there


----------



## Pictus (Jun 21, 2022)

I like to spread and add a very small bit in the center.
I prefer to apply the paste over the cooler and keep it warm to be able
to proper apply thick pastes, a hair dryer/heat gun is a good option.

Wanted :

1 - Last longer
2 - Lower thermal impedance
3 - Higher Thermal conductivity
4 - No break-in
5 - No curing time

The Thermalright TFX/Zezzio ZT-GX/ZT-GX*S*(*nano diamond*) fits the bill.
The Shin-Etsu 7921/Thermalright Tf3 and Honeywell 7950 film
are also very interesting, specially the Honeywell 7950 film
for endurance with direct die(GPU/notebook).










I just bought the Zezzio ZT-GX and will mix with the
Alseye T9+ Platinum Edition to make it a bit less dry.
When the Frankenpaste degrade/lost performance, I will get
the dry paste and try to revive by mixing with a bit of Krytox. 

BTW, the new Zezzio ZT-GX*S* is nano diamond based*.*
You know, "Diamonds Are a Girl's Best Friend", but if it does not scratch
the CPU/DIE surface, maybe it can be a friend to your PC too.


----------



## P4-630 (Jun 21, 2022)

Pictus said:


> BTW, the new Zezzio ZT-GX*S* is nano diamond based*.*



So basically it's a Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut knockoff?


----------



## Muck Muster (Jun 21, 2022)

You know, it's really odd about what kind and how much paste use. I've known people who use as little as a drop on the center and some pave away the whole CPU & GPU. Go ahead and use as little as you want or use the whole tube. I'm sure most of us aren't stupid. Take reconnaissance photos and so we can ascertain the damage.
On the other hand, manufactures love it and are tickled to see such a big concern for magic mud. They love piling on, "Why, this stuff is miracle mud, made from the rarest silver and gold mines of Africa. Just $50.00 a tube". When all they did was scoop up the dirt at the dead end of Rosamond Blvd north of Lancaster, CA. Course I'm exaggerating. No doubt it's all good mud but I don't think there's any -20c heroes in the whole bunch. Unless the muds' dried till it cracks can anyone boast a 20c difference
Most of us are smart enough not burn up our rigs with temps exceeding 100c so I wouldn't be too afraid of your application practices.
Aside from it most mud being pretty good stuff, repasting should be done 2 to 4 years.


----------



## Pictus (Jun 21, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> So basically it's a Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut knockoff?


Sorry, I have no idea...


----------



## Pictus (Aug 15, 2022)

Halnziye HY-P16





						HY-P16 16.1W/m-K thermal grease 1g syringe in the paper box_Shenzhen Halnziye Electronics Co., Ltd.
					

HY-P16 16.1W/m-K thermal grease 1g syringe in the paper box-Shenzhen Halnziye Electronics Co., Ltd.




					www.halnziye.net
				











						4.84US $ 1% OFF|1 PCS,15.2 / 16.1W/MK,HY P15 / 16,1g,Thermal Compound,Amd/Intel Processor, CPU/GPU Cooling Paste,Cooler Cooling Fan Plaster|Silicone Sealant|   - AliExpress
					

Smarter Shopping, Better Living!  Aliexpress.com




					www.aliexpress.com
				









Looks like we have a new champion for endurance(PCM) and performance.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Aug 15, 2022)

Pictus said:


> Halnziye HY-P16
> 
> 
> 
> ...


$5 for 1 Gram? Oh my goodness, no. Hard pass. Terrible value.


----------



## Pictus (Aug 16, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> $5 for 1 Gram? Oh my goodness, no. Hard pass. Terrible value.


No break-in and the potential to last a lot longer...


----------



## Kissamies (Aug 16, 2022)

Pictus said:


> No break-in and the potential to last a lot longer...


When you have an OC session and test many CPUs, that 1g goes faster than a can of beer. My current personal favourite is MX-4 in 8g syringes.


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 16, 2022)

Hi,
Not as bad as the grizzly


----------



## lexluthermiester (Aug 16, 2022)

Pictus said:


> No break-in and the potential to last a lot longer...


That might be true, but the price VS volume is terrible.


----------



## Pictus (Aug 16, 2022)

Guys, do some research for Phase Change Thermal Interface Material, one example





						Phase Change Materials: Innovations in Thermal Management
					






					electrolube.com


----------



## Kissamies (Aug 16, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Not as bad as the grizzly


You mean their defective batch? Well, MX-5 was pure crap in almost every way, I still don't laugh at Arctic. :/


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 16, 2022)

Hi,
Price/ amount of product comparison.

My one tube of mx-5 was okay.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Aug 16, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Price/ amount of product comparison.
> 
> My one tube of mx-5 was okay.


Same here. For me it tested out as an exceptional TIM.


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 16, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Same here. For me it tested out as an exceptional TIM.


Hi,
First few applications of a 5g tube looked okay or mixture was consistent color/ wet..
Not sure what the rest of it looks like though.


----------



## Blaeza (Aug 16, 2022)

I asked Arctic for a little tester tube of MX5 and they said it was EOL due to separation issues.


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 16, 2022)

Blaeza said:


> I asked Arctic for a little tester tube of MX5 and they said it was EOL due to separation issues.


Hi,
Yeah that's why I'm not sure what the rest of the tube looks like 
Could be clear in the middle or end of the tube.


----------



## Pictus (Sep 18, 2022)

Non scientific 100% amateur tests to satisfy my curiosity, take it with a grain or a bucket of salt...
Anyway, after +- 4 months I decided to check how the Krytox grease + Alseye T9+ Platinum mix was.
It not separate or dry and to remove the cooler from the CPU was easier, but 4 months is nothing...
Well, removed the mix and applied Zezzio ZT-GX that feels and smells(clove/eugenol) like TXF.
Mixing +-20% of Krytox and the performance decrease +-+ 0.5ºC, but I am sure the lifespan is prolonged...
Removed the Zezzio ZT-GX and applied the Shin-Etsu 7921 which gave me an advantage of +- 1.5ºC over the Zezzio without Krytox. 
I got lazy and didn't test 7921+Krytox, but will do for the GPU copper shin mod.

The Shin-Etsu 7921 is from AliExpress and seems not fake, I tested with paper to check for oil
or solvent and it had none like the original, considering the performance it must be original.
The Shin-Etsu 7921 is VERY dry/dense and not sticky, must heat it to be able to apply a paper thin
layer over the heatsink with a plastic card. I prefer to warm the heatsink(without fans) in the kitchen
stove(hot air from the fire), to make it hot/warm, but not burning hot.

Now I am mainly only using Shin-Etsu 7921 for CPU and for GPU the mix with Krytox to prolong the life span.
Shin-Etsu 7921 is old and still RuleZ!
High performance, not expensive, harder to apply, but because it is so dense it will not pump out easily and
that is why you should apply a paper thin layer with a small drop in the middle.
For those who don't know, Shin-Etsu is Japanese.








						Shin-Etsu Chemical Co. LTD - Shin-Etsu MicroSi
					

MicroSi’s parent company, Shin-Etsu Chemical Co., Ltd., was established in Tokyo in 1926. Through an ongoing commitment to diversification in product materials development, Shin-Etsu has grown to a group of more than 103 companies worldwide with business divisions extending far beyond...



					www.microsi.com
				




BTW, you may also find this post interesting...








						[EOL] Arctic MX-5 is here!!Tests incoming! Completed.  Now its MX-6 testing time!
					

this is not what i said. if you have a card that suffers a lot from it a tiny bit less tightened down screws leave a little bit more room and these ~0.2mm are enough on some heatsinks to make the whole pump out effect way less dramatic. my 2080 Ti had the worst issues where paste barely lasted...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## freeagent (Sep 18, 2022)

Honestly... it probably doesn't matter what you use for modern TIM these days, as long as it's in good shape when it goes on and you have a good cooler with good clamping pressure.


----------



## xzel87 (Sep 18, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Honestly... it probably doesn't matter what you use for modern TIM these days, as long as it's in good shape when it goes on and you have a good cooler with good clamping pressure.


Well it’s just something to justify a hobby more often than not. Regardless of the brand best effect is still changing paste frequently.

Really don’t see any real world practical gains aside from overclocking or running the hardware at the bleeding edge 24/7.


----------



## maxfly (Sep 18, 2022)

xzel87 said:


> Well it’s just something to justify a hobby more often than not. Regardless of the brand best effect is still changing paste frequently.
> 
> Really don’t see any real world practical gains aside from overclocking or running the hardware at the bleeding edge 24/7.


I wouldn't worry about changing a quality tim frequently. They are made to last many years. I haven't touched the paste in several of my older rigs in 5, 6, 7 hell I don't know how long it's been tbh. Temps are still chuggin right along.

I like testing out new pastes every once in awhile, in the rigs I use more frequently. It's cheap and so am I, so we get along mighty fine


----------



## xtreemchaos (Sep 18, 2022)

this the last time im going to say this "i bet your all glad" save your selfs a load of money and get some GD900 its the only paste you will ever need its as good as MX4 if not a bit better. i double dare you .


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 18, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Honestly... it probably doesn't matter what you use for modern TIM these days, as long as it's in good shape when it goes on and you have a good cooler with good clamping pressure.


True to a point, but not for everything. It really depends on what you're running. With the latest batch of CPU's and GPU's(I'm including AlderLake, Ryzen5X00, RX6X00 and RTX30X0), TIM is actually very important because they can produce so much heat to be dissipated. On lower end models you would be correct, any TIM made well and effectively applied will do the job without causing any issues. But midrange up, that story changes. Using a quality TIM becomes essential. On high end models, it is critical to optimal performance. ANY OCing will require a TIM to perform well. With all the new high wattage TDP hardware coming, this becomes even more critical. Not any TIM will do.


----------



## Shrek (Sep 18, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Honestly... it probably doesn't matter what you use for modern TIM these days, as long as it's in good shape when it goes on and you have a good cooler with good clamping pressure.



My CPU cost $25 (second hand) so I'm not going to dump the same sort of money on TIM


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Sep 18, 2022)

Shrek said:


> My CPU cost $25 (second hand) so I'm not going to dump the same sort of money on TIM


Yes for you the 30G HY510 thermal interface material for ONLY .... $1.41

WAIT - It gets BETTER

ONLY 10-15 days shipping on average!!

You'll have a PC up in no time with better than ketchup paste temps and a cool running PC. 

parity post


----------



## Shrek (Sep 18, 2022)

GD900 for me ($4 for 30g with shipping); I already have 120g


----------



## maxfly (Sep 18, 2022)

Shrek said:


> GD900 for me ($4 for 30g with shipping); I already have 120g


Lifetime supply for the entire forum!


----------



## nomdeplume (Oct 2, 2022)

What is the currently preferred TIM for low to mid-range GPU?

Somehow the Arctic Silver 5 I have on hand seems like a less than evolved choice.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 2, 2022)

AS5 is still ok, it’s just not as good as modem Tim’s.


----------



## nomdeplume (Oct 2, 2022)

freeagent said:


> AS5 is still ok, it’s just not as good as modem Tim’s.



Is there a middle ground paste - Noctua?


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 2, 2022)

nomdeplume said:


> Is there a middle ground paste - Noctua?


I feel like MX-4 is the cheap middleground paste for all purpose these days.


----------



## Icon Charlie (Oct 2, 2022)

R-T-B said:


> I feel like MX-4 is the cheap middleground paste for all purpose these days.


Still use it on my rig and it runs just fine.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 2, 2022)

nomdeplume said:


> Is there a middle ground paste - Noctua?


Honestly?

The tube of NT-H1 that came with my old D14 was not as good as the AS5 I was using imo. I haven’t touched it since..

Edit:

I do have a tube of AS5 still, but I don’t actually use it anymore unless I have to


----------



## P4-630 (Oct 2, 2022)

Around Jan, 2010 I've used AS5 for the CPU of my dads rig, the E7200 is still running cool today!
Almost 13 years without re-applying, AS5 isn't the coolest anymore but it sure is still long lasting...


----------



## Shrek (Oct 2, 2022)

For me long life is more important than 2 degrees saved.


----------



## P4-630 (Oct 2, 2022)

Shrek said:


> For me long life is more important than 2 degrees saved.



Even better if you can have both!


----------



## Franz (Oct 2, 2022)

I've been using some gd pastes since that bad experience with kryonaut. So, gd900 was 1ºC worst than kryonaut and the concistence was the same as mx4 and when I removed the plate it seems like new and even bether than mx4. After that I tested the gd007 and till now is the best paste I've used. I dont check for the consistence but I believe it still liquid and like same when aplied.

I dont recommend the tube version, it seems like it perform poor and those syringues with 4gr are very cheap.


----------



## Shrek (Oct 2, 2022)

Another one for GD900


----------



## nomdeplume (Oct 2, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Honestly?
> 
> The tube of NT-H1 that came with my old D14 was not as good as the AS5 I was using imo. I haven’t touched it since..
> 
> ...



LOL at defense followed by distancing in your edit.

Glad I didn't go buy the Noctua.  Cooler Master master something or other gel is what I was trying to think of.  I knew something was wrong with what I was about to do or I wouldn't have asked here.  



P4-630 said:


> Almost 13 years without re-applying, AS5 isn't the coolest anymore but it sure is still long lasting...



My cpu sits around 28 C at idle most of the year.  I probably should've left it alone for another 5 years.  Felt good to get the heatsink fins totally clean though.  

Worst case I clean the AS5 off after discovering a latent fixation with OC'ing.


----------



## Tomgang (Oct 2, 2022)

Ah yeah when I had X58 and a I7 920. Artic silver 5 ess used. Dit not reapply for 8 years. Good long lasting paste. 

However temp is more important for me as I overclock. All throw not so much right now as we in Europe has a energy crisis. It's to expensive in electricity to overclock right now.

So with a i7 980x i switched to thermal grizzly kryonaut and managed to oc i7 980x to 4.75 ghx on aircooling. All throw it ran hot. But had not been possible on artic silver 5.

So after jumping to Zen 3 with 5600X and 5950X. I also switched to kryonaut extreme paste. Got my 5950X to a manual all core oc to 4.65 ghz and ran at 86 c on aircooling. Stock is 56 c all core load while single core boots is 72 C. With pbo all core load raises to 76 c. So all in all temperatures I am very pleased with for aircooling.


----------



## Franz (Oct 2, 2022)

Tomgang said:


> Europe has a energy crisis.



This was caused by the interruption of gas from Russia?


----------



## Tomgang (Oct 2, 2022)

Franz said:


> This was caused by the interruption of gas from Russia?


Yes partly. But it is also caused by the sanctions the west has put on russia. For not to forget climate changes. We had a dry summer with little water and wind. Causing the supply of shipping goods to be low because of rivers drying up. Ship has to be heavy so it does not run on ground. Only little water to water power plant and cooling water to cool nuclear power plant to produce electricity. It all causes a perfect storm for an energy supply crisis


----------



## Icon Charlie (Oct 2, 2022)

Franz said:


> I've been using some gd pastes since that bad experience with kryonaut. So, gd900 was 1ºC worst than kryonaut and the concistence was the same as mx4 and when I removed the plate it seems like new and even bether than mx4. After that I tested the gd007 and till now is the best paste I've used. I dont check for the consistence but I believe it still liquid and like same when aplied.
> 
> I dont recommend the tube version, it seems like it perform poor and those syringues with 4gr are very cheap.


I've had issues with Kryonaut as well. I've tried the company's products to test with in 2019 since they made some great claims about temperature reduction. Overall, not impress in what you get as well as their claims of  performance increases.  In my case they were minor enough to not warrant any changes to what I use overall.


----------



## Athlonite (Oct 2, 2022)

nomdeplume said:


> Glad I didn't go buy the Noctua. Cooler Master master something or other gel is what I was trying to think of. I knew something was wrong with what I was about to do or I wouldn't have asked here.


Coolermaster Master Gel maker or pro are pretty good I switched to master gel pro from AS5 because I'm not paying 20 bucks for it


----------



## mclaren85 (Oct 2, 2022)

Is there any separate thermal "pad" topic?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 3, 2022)

nomdeplume said:


> Somehow the Arctic Silver 5 I have on hand seems like a less than evolved choice.


Nonsense. AS5 is still an excellent TIM for daily driver CPU's. If you have some, use it, enjoy.


----------



## maxfly (Oct 3, 2022)

mclaren85 said:


> Is there any separate thermal "pad" topic?


Not yet...

Tbh there aren't enough different brands to have much of a discussion. Even if we lumped the gpu memory types in with the cpu kinds we may only have enough to count on one hand.


----------



## Shrek (Oct 3, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> Even better if you can have both!



May have to pay more than $1 a gram ($1000 a kg)


----------



## Nike_486DX (Oct 3, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Nonsense. AS5 is still an excellent TIM for daily driver CPU's. If you have some, use it, enjoy.


i had as5 on a HD 7970 back in 2018ish, the temperatures would go up (like 5C iirc) after every 2 months or so, after every repasting it always went back to normal. But come on, who wants to repaste a card 4 times a year?? Liquid metal solved the issue for me, since nov 2021 using a repaired rx 580, i have the furmark graphs saved (alongside with ambient t), and 11 months later it plots the exact same graph, with maybe +1C increase.


----------



## Space Lynx (Oct 3, 2022)

nomdeplume said:


> Is there a middle ground paste - Noctua?



I use Noctua NT-H2, haven't had any issues. It's less about the paste for me and more about supporting Noctua, who has shown me unparallled customer support over the years, including shipping me an extra fan brace all the way from Austria one time. Amazing company.


----------



## Shrek (Oct 3, 2022)

Would be nice to have a thread on indium and carbon thermal pads along with phase changing pads.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 3, 2022)

Nike_486DX said:


> i had as5 on a HD 7970 back in 2018ish, the temperatures would go up (like 5C iirc) after every 2 months or so, after every repasting it always went back to normal. But come on, who wants to repaste a card 4 times a year??


Last time I used AS5, it went fine. The system in question is still running fine 3 years later on the same application. Whatever problem you were having was not related to the quality of AS5. Sounds like you were using NT-H1 as that is exactly how that TIM behaves.



Shrek said:


> Would be nice to have a thread on indium and carbon thermal pads along with phase changing pads.


@Lenne
I've already made this request, but perhaps we can change the thread name to include thermal pads? Something like " The Official Thermal Interface Material thread "? That way we can discuss thermal pads without worry of being off-topic.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 21, 2022)

@95Viper
Thanks for the thread name change!

So CoolerMaster has actually supplied Amazon with the CryoFuze Violet.


			https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B7CDFVZC
		

I'm ordering one. Not sure what to expect, but I've got to see it. I'll post photos and a mini-review when it arrives.
EDIT: Ordered. It'll be here next week.


----------



## nomdeplume (Oct 21, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> @95Viper
> Thanks for the thread name change!



Bring on the candy colored exotic $€$€$€ thermal pads with inexplicably short life spans!


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 21, 2022)

nomdeplume said:


> Bring on the candy colored exotic $€$€$€ thermal pads with inexplicably short life spans!


Over at Phil's Computer Lab, he;s done a few tests with thermal pads, the most recent one linked below;









There's also these;


----------



## Shrek (Oct 21, 2022)

Anything on indium pads?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 25, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Anything on indium pads?


Not personally seen them. Kinda curious.

As mentioned above, I have received the CoolerMaster Cryofuze Violet TIM ordered from Amazon.


It looks more pink than Violet from the outside. Will be doing testing soon and on the same system I used to test MX-5.


----------



## Franz (Oct 25, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Not personally seen them. Kinda curious.
> 
> As mentioned above, I have received the CoolerMaster Cryofuze Violet TIM ordered from Amazon.
> View attachment 267014View attachment 267015View attachment 267016
> It looks more pink than Violet from the outside. Will be doing testing soon and on the same system I used to test MX-5.


Please, test the gd007 too. I think it will be a good surprise


----------



## freeagent (Oct 25, 2022)

Sorry guys, the tag did not appear in my notifications


----------



## ThrashZone (Oct 25, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Not personally seen them. Kinda curious.
> 
> As mentioned above, I have received the CoolerMaster Cryofuze Violet TIM ordered from Amazon.
> View attachment 267014View attachment 267015View attachment 267016
> It looks more pink than Violet from the outside. Will be doing testing soon and on the same system I used to test MX-5.


Hi,
I have a policy 
I do not use items that have cry in the name 



lexluthermiester said:


> Over at Phil's Computer Lab, he;s done a few tests with thermal pads, the most recent one linked below;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


IC pads are not very good for oc'ing
But if you don't care what the temps do sure go for it they are reusable so best for servers/ grandma/...


----------



## Franz (Oct 25, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> I have a policy
> I do not use items that have cry in the name


That made me laugh, I remember the age of crysis, cryostasis and others 10~20fps range 

Bad times


----------



## Pictus (Oct 25, 2022)

Franz said:


> Please, test the gd007 too. I think it will be a good surprise


GD007 is included at








						【Video】18 silicone grease horizontal review: Practice has proved that the thermal conductivity is seriously water-mixed
					






					www.laitimes.com
				



(CF14 = CryoFuse 14 W/mk, CryoFuse Violet is 12.6 W/mk and not in the test)




And another for accelerated aging(baked at 200ºC for 24h) at





						[视频]18款导热硅脂横评round 2：淘汰率超过60%的老化测试 - 超能网
					

超能网（Expreview）专注于为主流科技产品提供全新视角的资讯，专注于100%高价值原创内容的创造，专注于最真实的体验式报道。




					www.expreview.com


----------



## Robinio (Oct 27, 2022)

Blaeza said:


> I asked Arctic for a little tester tube of MX5 and they said it was EOL due to separation issues.


I know you posted this a while ago, but I just received the LFII service kit and they provided a 0.8g tube of MX-5. Are they bringing it back?


----------



## maxfly (Oct 27, 2022)

Robinio said:


> I know you posted this a while ago, but I just received the LFII service kit and they provided a 0.8g tube of MX-5. Are they bringing it back?


I assume they are just using up what stock they have left. It's definitely eol.

Edit- don't be worried about using it. The stuff I have has been top notch.


----------



## P4-630 (Oct 27, 2022)

Robinio said:


> I know you posted this a while ago, but I just received the LFII service kit and they provided a 0.8g tube of MX-5. Are they bringing it back?



No there's MX-6 now.


----------



## Robinio (Oct 27, 2022)

Thanks. Will keep it as a backup for when my mastergel maker & PK3 run out.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 29, 2022)

Franz said:


> Please, test the gd007 too. I think it will be a good surprise


I don't have any of that TIM to test with. I have something similar and have already tested it.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 2, 2022)

Ok, tests for CoolerMaster's Cryofuze Violet are done. Sorry for the delay everyone, been busy and traveling. So here my review.

For reference, please review the test conducted previously with other competing TIM's on the same system and similar conditions.








						[EOL] Arctic MX-5 is here!!Tests incoming! Completed.  Now its MX-6 testing time!
					

Oh I'll pass on that.  That's specifically for TFX.   (I got the best results on my 3090 FE (most stable core temp deltas) applying it like that. SYY-157 still needs full coverage but is easier to get on.  Anyone here use SYY-157 yet?




					www.techpowerup.com
				




Here is the application process:



Simple line of TIM across the lead edge of the contact plate.




All spread out. This TIM is a full-on paste! Very dry, not oily or fluid-like at all. It did spread smoothly though. Took some work, but spreads nicely as you can see. Now for performance.


In the following tests, Prime95 was used in Small FFT's mode.



This test showed the Arctic MX-5 application that has been on for some time. Solid performance as expected.




This test shows the CryoFuze Violet doing well. It performs within a couple of degrees C compared to MX-5 which is known for it's excellent performance(setting aside the bad batches).

Reviewer Conclusion;
Coolermaster has a good performer with this one but they need to adjust the value of the product by either including more volume of TIM for the same price or just lowering the price. The novelty of the "Violet" metallic appearance advertised is not delivered, see photo's above. This TIM is very much pink in colour and does not have the metallic sheen shown in marketing materials. However, at the end of the day, performance is king and CryoFuze Violet delivers that very well.

Please note: In this run of tests, I did not run each test for 11 minutes like I did last year. It was discovered that the system in question reaches thermal saturation within 2 minutes of load. There was no need for extended testing as the results would not have changed. I also used Windows 7 instead of 10 as that is what is currently installed on that system and I didn't feel it necessary to change the OS as variations for this series of testing were not expected nor observed.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 2, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ok, tests for CoolerMaster's Cryofuze Violet are done. Sorry for the delay everyone, been busy and traveling. So here my review.
> 
> For reference, please review the test conducted previously with other competing TIM's on the same system and similar conditions.
> 
> ...



Not going to lie, I was tempted by the gimmicky name and color as well. lmao thanks for saving me some money.

I do still have my NT-H2 paste, so I will be using that. Not sure if anyone here has ever bought NT-H2 paste before, but damn Noctua is hella good at packaging and accessories. Mine came with little Noctua wipes to remove paste with, and the packaging is just solid and thought out. It doesn't matter, but I am sucker for nice packaging. lmao


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 2, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> Not going to lie, I was tempted by the gimmicky name and color as well. lmao thanks for saving me some money.


Make no mistake, it's a good TIM. It was only $7 for 2g. A little high, but not compared to the premium brands. You would not have wasted your money. 2g is enough for 7 or 8 applications.


CallandorWoT said:


> I do still have my NT-H2 paste, so I will be using that. Not sure if anyone here has ever bought NT-H2 paste before, but damn Noctua is hella good at packaging and accessories. Mine came with little Noctua wipes to remove paste with, and the packaging is just solid and thought out. It doesn't matter, but I am sucker for nice packaging. lmao


There you go. NT-H2 is a solid TIM too.


----------



## ThrashZone (Nov 2, 2022)

Hi,
Nt-h2 price is not solid though it's inflated by noctua adding a bunch of useless 2% alcohol wipes in it
Nt-h1 rules still in my book at nearly half the price at 10g tubes I've never noticed any fall off.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 3, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Nt-h1 rules still in my book at nearly half the price at 10g tubes I've never noticed any fall off.


For the price that one is not a good value IMO. It also has problems drying out and losing effectiveness. Personal experience with the testing last year.


----------



## dgianstefani (Nov 4, 2022)

Silently pushing locked 1440p 236 FPS, from a single 240 mm radiator in a case the size of a shoebox.

Gotta love Kryonaut Extreme CPU/GPU and repadded GPU.



re


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 17, 2022)

@MachineLearning 


> I seem to recall you working at a PC repair shop, do you often deal with laptops? Would you ever have a chance to test MX-6 in such a situation?
> 
> Currently use MX-2 in my laptop because it performs better than MX-4 does in that use case, and I would replace it if something else is significantly better.


I do. I've been using variety of TIM's over the years. Until recently we were using MX-5. Before that MX-4 and AS5. So far, MX-6 is performing well! It seems to be very stable and given it's properties, I think it's going to be exceptional for a wide range of applications, including laptops. For high power laptops, I've been using KPx. That stuff kicks @$$. Pricy though, but worth it if you need it. Keep in mind that a quality TIM is only part of the equation. TIM's are not magic and can not solve heat problems on systems that have a heatsink/fan design that is lackluster. IF the laptop itself can easily overload the cooling system, no TIM is going to prevent throttling.


----------



## Borc (Dec 5, 2022)

MX-4/MX-5/MX-6 comparison:










MX-6 is much more viscous. On my notebook it performs much better than the previous MX-4/MX-5. This is not the best paste I have tested but given the low price it's a solid paste and unlike MX-4/MX-5 I can say it works on my notebook.


----------



## Shrek (Dec 5, 2022)

Franz said:


> Please, test the gd007 too. I think it will be a good surprise



Better than GD900?



Borc said:


> MX-6 is much more viscous.



Probably a good thing against pump-out


----------



## GerKNG (Dec 5, 2022)

i am highly interested in the SYY 157 paste.
seems to be a very decent paste for direct die applications. anyone here tried it before?


----------



## jayjr1105 (Dec 5, 2022)

Finally got around to finding a candidate for mx-6.  My 1st gen XB1.  In hindsight I probably should have spread it but so far the fan is barely ramping up much if at all so the x-clamp plus 4 screws must have done the trick to press it down and spread it out.


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Dec 5, 2022)

jayjr1105 said:


> Finally got around to finding a candidate for mx-6.  My 1st gen XB1.  In hindsight I probably should have spread it but so far the fan is barely ramping up much if at all so the x-clamp plus 4 screws must have done the trick to press it down and spread it out.
> View attachment 273121


You should spread the paste on lidless BGA chips to ensure full coverage.


----------



## nja (Dec 5, 2022)

GerKNG said:


> i am highly interested in the SYY 157 paste.
> seems to be a very decent paste for direct die applications. anyone here tried it before?


Currently on it
3600 and 3070FE in a NZXT H210i
Literally the best paste i've used to date. Beats everything i've tried (NT-H1, 2, mastergel pro, MX4, gelid gc extreme, kryonaut, hydronaut, ic diamond and so on...)
Haven't tried TFX yet. Heard they come out of the same factory. Lowest temperatures i had and lowest hotspot difference (9 to 11)
Spread it, let it rest 20m and put it back on. For the price it's just amazing.


----------



## GerKNG (Dec 5, 2022)

nja said:


> Literally the best paste i've used to date.


that sounds like i have to buy a tube 
i heard people saying that the 157 lasted over 1 year on a GPU without even degrading by a single °C.

i don't even care that much about performance but pump out resistance...
This is NT H1 after less than 4 weeks! on my 6800XT.


----------



## 3x0 (Dec 5, 2022)

GerKNG said:


> This is NT H1 after less than 4 weeks! on my 6800XT.


Looks like a cool painting, but not something I want to see on a GPU core.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 5, 2022)

GerKNG said:


> This is NT H1 after less than 4 weeks! on my 6800XT


I tried NT-H1 when D14 was a new cooler. It did the same to me, and I swore it off ever since.


----------



## ThrashZone (Dec 5, 2022)

GerKNG said:


> that sounds like i have to buy a tube
> i heard people saying that the 157 lasted over 1 year on a GPU without even degrading by a single °C.
> 
> i don't even care that much about performance but pump out resistance...
> This is NT H1 after less than 4 weeks! on my 6800XT.


Hi,
I've never had any issues using it on water blocks cpu or gpu's.


----------



## GerKNG (Dec 5, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> I've never had any issues using it on water blocks cpu or gpu's.


probably because the waterblock on the GPU is very thick and barely expands under heat. (plus the GPU temperature is much lower)
it just pumps out after a couple thermal cycles. (around 70°C load temp for ~100 hours of load = my pictures)
on a CPU with an IHS that's not a problem.


----------



## igralec84 (Dec 5, 2022)

I'm currently using Kryonaut Extreme (switched from the normal one) and it's very hard, almost like bubble gum and i used the pea method that i always use. 
Not really sure it spread evenly but the temps seem normal. Will maybe check one day but it's a hassle as i don't want to move/unplug the 4090 that is like 2mm away from the Z73 CPU block. Had to undo all but one screw holding the vertical mount so it lowered just enough to undo the bottom two thumb screws and replace the CPU


----------



## ThrashZone (Dec 5, 2022)

GerKNG said:


> probably because the waterblock on the GPU is very thick and barely expands under heat. (plus the GPU temperature is much lower)
> it just pumps out after a couple thermal cycles. (around 70°C load temp for ~100 hours of load = my pictures)
> on a CPU with an IHS that's not a problem.


Hi,
What were you doing gpu mining ?

Highest gpu temp under heavy oc'ing I've ever gotten is roughly 45c+- obviously not 24/7/365
Cpu well my comfort max is 95c at max clocks so I do push the shit the system I've just never seen nt-h1 evacuate the area like you showed.


----------



## GerKNG (Dec 5, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Highest gpu temp under heavy oc'ing I've ever gotten is roughly 45c+-


under water...
not with the stock cooler.
6800XT Aorus Master, Overclocked (315W Limit)
70°C Edge, 85°C Hotspot on average. (pump out after 4 weeks) = 75°C Edge, 105°C Hotspot.
it's a thin copper plate that expands a lot under heat and the chip runs hot anyways.
your CPU die is under a heatspreader. that prevents basically any pumpout since you have this massive chunk of nickel plated copper on top that gets barely 60°C warm when your CPU is already running at 100°C.


----------



## Helper (Dec 5, 2022)

igralec84 said:


> I'm currently using Kryonaut Extreme (switched from the normal one) and it's very hard, almost like bubble gum and i used the pea method that i always use.
> Not really sure it spread evenly but the temps seem normal. Will maybe check one day but it's a hassle as i don't want to move/unplug the 4090 that is like 2mm away from the Z73 CPU block. Had to undo all but one screw holding the vertical mount so it lowered just enough to undo the bottom two thumb screws and replace the CPU



Thermal Grizzly is using the same approach Glorious does with their mice. They buy a lot of paste from some factory I don't know, rebadge it and rip you off. I'm using the words rip off because their paste cost a lot more than alternative similar formula, such as TF8. For the mouse example, most honeycomb mice is made by a company called Ironclad.

In this case, when you look at the syringes and the spreaders, packing, everything... you'll find out that it all is more or less the same thing. Off my head...

Grizzly, Alseye, Thermalright, Halyzinye and the bunch of others depending on your region, such as Pullwark. These are the top levels of conductivity TIM. It doesn't include the TIM outside of packaging that looks like a syringe and a head that attaches to its top needle point.

Here:



			https://post-phinf.pstatic.net/MjAxOTEwMjFfMTM2/MDAxNTcxNjU3MTgxNjgw.c-E7-SeEntW1Gwe4PpO7PHeKezZ6ruLUmo8kR8TEc7Ig.WQxUysA4vIEDJl-9aRyuPcV04vkdhElXLuFCah5OpN4g.JPEG/DSC00032.jpg?type=w1200
		




			https://www.lowyat.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Thermal-Grizzly-Kryonaut-Extreme-pink.jpg


----------



## mechtech (Dec 5, 2022)

I have not seen any mx6 yet in Canada.   Any consensus on what the best stuff is for longevity and pump out??    I’m looking for something that will last reliably for 6 years minimum before repasting.


----------



## Franz (Dec 5, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Better than GD900?


Yes, it seems more stable temps and lower spikes


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 5, 2022)

jayjr1105 said:


> Finally got around to finding a candidate for mx-6.  My 1st gen XB1.  In hindsight I probably should have spread it but so far the fan is barely ramping up much if at all so the x-clamp plus 4 screws must have done the trick to press it down and spread it out.
> View attachment 273121


You put enough on there, it should be good.


----------



## jayjr1105 (Dec 5, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> You put enough on there, it should be good.


I thought as much, unfortunately being a locked down console, I can't report on before/after temps but the console plays fine and it blows out nice hot air as it should.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 5, 2022)

Lately I have been using TF7, it is what comes with Thermalright coolers. It's pretty good stuff I would say. I was using SYY-157 previously, and it too is quite good. I am going to have to order another tube of TFX because I keep saying it's my favorite, but I used it on coolers that I no longer use, and only had the one tube


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 5, 2022)

jayjr1105 said:


> I thought as much, unfortunately being a locked down console, I can't report on before/after temps but the console plays fine and it blows out nice hot air as it should.


Is it blowing out warmer air than before?


----------



## Shrek (Dec 5, 2022)

It can't

Let's say one has a 100W source, no matter how bad the TIM, it still outputs 100W


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 5, 2022)

Shrek said:


> It can't
> 
> Let's say one has a 100W source, no matter how bad the TIM, it still outputs 100W


?!? Who were you responding too?


----------



## Shrek (Dec 5, 2022)

Your question "Is it blowing out warmer air than before?"

Although there is a proviso, electronics actually produces less heat when hot; transistors are sometime run without too much cooling to take advantage of this effect.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 5, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Your question "Is it blowing out warmer air than before?"
> 
> Although there is a proviso, electronics actually produces less heat when hot; transistors are sometime run without too much cooling to take advantage of this effect.


Ah I see. You didn't use the "Reply" function so it didn't automatically seem like it was a direct reply. Anyway, thermal dynamics apply. If the TIM is doing better, the heat output will "feel" cooler as the heat is being transferred to the heatsink and then to the air more efficiently. It's kinda counter intuitive, because one would think the if the TIM is doing better more heat would be vented, and while that is true, the effect is that because the heat is being transferred better the overall effect is that the thermal output of the system will be reduced because the heatsink can to it's job better and as a result doesn't warm up as much because it has an easier job of transferring that heat to the venting system.

A poorly performing TIM would transfer heat slowly and thermal saturation would be a thing, resulting in the air flowing from the venting system being hotter. With electronics, more heat always = bad, less heat always = good.

So the above question is valid for those reasons.


----------



## jayjr1105 (Dec 5, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Is it blowing out warmer air than before?


I can't answer that.  It was re-pasted a few years back with MX2 or something I had lying around.  Only reason I re-pasted again was because I was already inside it to replace the hard drive and I was itching to try MX-6 on something.  It was performing just fine thermally and probably still is.  Had I known MX-6 is much thicker, I would have spread it but I trust the clamp and heat did it's job to spread it out.


----------



## Shrek (Dec 5, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ah I see. You didn't use the "Reply" function so it didn't automatically seem like it was a direct reply. Anyway, thermal dynamics apply. If the TIM is doing better, the heat output will "feel" cooler as the heat is being transferred to the heatsink and then to the air more efficiently. It's kinda counter intuitive, because one would think the if the TIM is doing better more heat would be vented, and while that is true, the effect is that because the heat is being transferred better the overall effect is that the thermal output of the system will be reduced because the heatsink can to it's job better and as a result doesn't warm up as much because it has an easier job of transferring that heat to the venting system.
> 
> A poorly performing TIM would transfer heat slowly and thermal saturation would be a thing, resulting in the air flowing from the venting system being hotter. With electronics, more heat always = bad, less heat always = good.
> 
> So the above question is valid for those reasons.



Not here to make trouble, but any TIM would transfer the SAME heat for the same CPU (conservation of energy), except for the proviso given above.

However, the bad TIM will have the CPU running hotter.


----------



## mechtech (Dec 5, 2022)

I have not seen any mx6 yet in Canada. Any consensus on what the best stuff is for longevity and pump out?? I’m looking for something that will last reliably for 6 years minimum before repasting.


----------



## mclaren85 (Dec 5, 2022)

The best heat transfer (according to thermodynamics law) occurs during the phase change. Which means during the compound melts down or boil etc. (that is the heat coefficient). Also some materials have the "second sound" phenomenon, which enables the heat transfer like a sound-waves do, which is also very important factor to analyze thermal conductivity.

According to this information the best ever paste has to be PCM (Phase change material) type. I don't know it yet to be created, but that is the way the companies should take.

Note: As far as I know, Henkel Industries tries to make some of that type of grease, but for only industrial usage.


----------



## Pictus (Dec 6, 2022)

mclaren85 said:


> The best heat transfer (according to thermodynamics law) occurs during the phase change. Which means during the compound melts down or boil etc. (that is the heat coefficient). Also some materials have the "second sound" phenomenon, which enables the heat transfer like a sound-waves do, which is also very important factor to analyze thermal conductivity.
> 
> According to this information the best ever paste has to be *PCM (Phase change material)* type. I don't know it yet to be created, but that is the way the companies should take.
> 
> Note: As far as I know, Henkel Industries tries to make some of that type of grease, but for only industrial usage.


*PCM*?
Look at https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...e-material-thread.278074/page-11#post-4814383


----------



## mechtech (Dec 6, 2022)

nja said:


> Currently on it
> 3600 and 3070FE in a NZXT H210i
> Literally the best paste i've used to date. Beats everything i've tried (NT-H1, 2, mastergel pro, MX4, gelid gc extreme, kryonaut, hydronaut, ic diamond and so on...)
> Haven't tried TFX yet. Heard they come out of the same factory. Lowest temperatures i had and lowest hotspot difference (9 to 11)
> Spread it, let it rest 20m and put it back on. For the price it's just amazing.


hmmmm  not that I put much faith in Toms but








						Best Thermal Paste for CPUs 2022: 90 Pastes Tested and Ranked
					

The right thermal paste will improve performance.




					www.tomshardware.com
				




Rated it as poor, but then says very good high tension testing results?!?!!  Strange.
9. SYY 157​Best Budget Performance
Specifications​Electrically Conductive: No
Thermal Conductivity: 15.7 W/mk
Ease of Use: 3.0 (1=difficult, 5=simple)
Relative Performance: 1 (1=poor, 5=excellent)
Cleanup: lint-free absorbent paper towels, alcohol pads or cotton swabs and alcohol
Price per gram: $2.99

Reasons to buy
+
Cost / price per gram
+
Very good high-tension testing results
Reasons to avoid​-
Rather thick
-
Difficult to spread


----------



## freeagent (Dec 6, 2022)

Difficult to spread?

Dam noobs.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 6, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Not here to make trouble, but any TIM would transfer the SAME heat for the same CPU (conservation of energy), except for the proviso given above.
> 
> However, the bad TIM will have the CPU running hotter.


And while that would seem logical in theory, that's not what happens in real-world practice.



freeagent said:


> Difficult to spread?
> 
> Dam noobs.


I wouldn't say is "difficult" to spread, but it does require more effort.


----------



## damric (Dec 6, 2022)

So recently I put a water block on a 6900xt. The grease that came with it was amazing. I just emailed alphacool to see if they sell it or plan on selling it.









						Alphacool Eisblock Aurora Acetal GPX-A Radeon RX 6800/XT/6900 Reference mit Backplate
					

Der Alphacool Eisblock Aurora Acryl RADEON RX 6800/6900/XT vereint Style mit Performance. Die Erfahrung von über 17 Jahren sind in diesen Grafikkarten-Wasserkühler eingeflossen und stellen den aktuellen Höhepunkt der Alphacool...




					www.alphacool.com


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## nja (Dec 6, 2022)

mechtech said:


> hmmmm  not that I put much faith in Toms but
> 
> 
> 
> ...


These aren't reviews, they're fully sponsored articles that are copy pasted from sites to sites with affiliated links
Everyone who has tried syy 157 has made similar claims to me (as far as ive read)
No pump out in 4 months after a repaste
They claim it's thick and difficult to spread.. i disagree, kryonaut and gelid are harder to me! And theres always the cup of hot water technique if needed 
If you want the best of the best.. TFX or these guys https://www.coolsierra.com/collections/thermal-paste/products/ec360-ruby?variant=39723865211020
They also have the best thermal pads with fujipoly.. But SYY 157 remains the best bang for the buck
I suspect it to be rebranded TFX from "less good" batches or normal batches, for fake concurrence.. Common in asian markets!


----------



## freeagent (Dec 6, 2022)

SYY-157 is no more difficult to spread than Arctic Silver Ceramique II… Maybe they had some dry stuff, not sure. TFX is waaay thicker for sure, that stuff was a tough spread.. but it was cool in here and I didn’t warm it up.


----------



## maxfly (Dec 6, 2022)

GerKNG said:


> i am highly interested in the SYY 157 paste.
> seems to be a very decent paste for direct die applications. anyone here tried it before?


I believe @freeagent has tried some? Or maybe it was gd900... I forget.


damric said:


> So recently I put a water block on a 6900xt. The grease that came with it was amazing. I just emailed alphacool to see if they sell it or plan on selling it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We've got an Alphacool rep, alphacooleddy or eddie. I'll try to find the right user name. Anyhow, he will be able to tell you.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 6, 2022)

maxfly said:


> I believe @freeagent has tried some? Or maybe it was gd900... I forget.


That was me, I have gone through about 50 grams already 

Its good stuff, use the spatula.. thin not translucent 

But that would depend on your cooler I guess, and its mounting pressure...


----------



## maxfly (Dec 7, 2022)

damric said:


> So recently I put a water block on a 6900xt. The grease that came with it was amazing. I just emailed alphacool to see if they sell it or plan on selling it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's @EddyAlphacool  Goodlord that was a pita to find! If you pm him I'm sure he will let you know. He's really helpful. Or...he may post up here


----------



## EddyAlphacool (Dec 7, 2022)

damric said:


> So recently I put a water block on a 6900xt. The grease that came with it was amazing. I just emailed alphacool to see if they sell it or plan on selling it.


With all CPU and GPU coolers and also with all GPU and CPU AIOs (with the exception of the Ocean AIO), the Alphacool Subzero thermal paste with 16W/mk is currently always included.


This paste:








						Alphacool
					






					www.alphacool.com


----------



## damric (Dec 7, 2022)

EddyAlphacool said:


> With all CPU and GPU coolers and also with all GPU and CPU AIOs (with the exception of the Ocean AIO), the Alphacool Subzero thermal paste with 16W/mk is currently always included.
> 
> 
> This paste:
> ...


Ok I was wondering because it was in a black unlabeled tube. I'll be ordering more. Thank you!


----------



## EddyAlphacool (Dec 7, 2022)

@damric 
That's correct, we don't have any lables on there. Actually inconvenient as you can see, but in the future there will be lables on it as well, so you can see it right away. 
But it has always had the Subzero on it for many years. But next year we will switch to the more powerful Alphacool Apex with 17W/mk for all products (except the Ocean AIOs).


----------



## Arco (Dec 7, 2022)

Would Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut be better than the MX-5 I'm using right now?

Edit: I'm open to suggestions as well.


----------



## mechtech (Dec 7, 2022)

freeagent said:


> That was me, I have gone through about 50 grams already
> 
> Its good stuff, use the spatula.. thin not translucent
> 
> But that would depend on your cooler I guess, and its mounting pressure...


Lol 50g wth lol

A 4g tube usually gets old before I use it all.   I have a newish tube (8 months old?) of mx4 2019 Ed (hopefully legit) that I will use on my noctua cooler when I repaste/reinstall.

edit


----------



## jayjr1105 (Dec 7, 2022)

Arco said:


> Would Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut be better than the MX-5 I'm using right now?
> 
> Edit: I'm open to suggestions as well.


Considering your MX-5 application is probably recent, I wouldn't bother.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 7, 2022)

mechtech said:


> Lol 50g wth lol
> 
> A 4g tube usually gets old before I use it all.   I have a newish tube (8 months old?) of mx4 2019 Ed (hopefully legit) that I will use on my noctua cooler when I repaste/reinstall.
> 
> edit


I've got 3 CPUs in rotation, 3 or 4 heatsinks, and a few cases 

I do all kind of experimenting


----------



## nomdeplume (Dec 7, 2022)

How much of that 40g went to disproving the fingertip smear debate we'll never know.


----------



## maxfly (Dec 7, 2022)

There was a fingertip debate? Do share @nomdeplume.


----------



## P4-630 (Dec 7, 2022)

mechtech said:


> hmmmm  not that I put much faith in Toms but
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm missing Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme.....


----------



## maxfly (Dec 7, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> I'm missing Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme.....


And pk3 is $51.99 from the only vendor selling it on Amazon... apparently they think its made of gold.


----------



## nomdeplume (Dec 7, 2022)

maxfly said:


> There was a fingertip debate? Do share @nomdeplume.



Yes, just as there was a bendable iPhone debate.  

Effectively you just dip a finger into the barrel sized repository your industrial byproduct of note and finger paint it all over the place like you're 3 years old again.  Which prompted howls of micro-sized air bubbles and all the usual suspected failure modes being examined in nauseating detail.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 7, 2022)

Arco said:


> Would Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut be better than the MX-5 I'm using right now?


If it is, it's not by much. Maybe 1 or 2 degrees C



EddyAlphacool said:


> With all CPU and GPU coolers and also with all GPU and CPU AIOs (with the exception of the Ocean AIO), the Alphacool Subzero thermal paste with 16W/mk is currently always included.
> 
> 
> This paste:
> ...


Anyone who considers this, the 20g package, while pricey, is the best value per gram.

For those inclined, there's also an Amazon listing;


			https://www.amazon.com/Alphacool-Subzero-Thermal-Grease-13009/dp/B0BDXSKPMV
		


There is also AlphaCool's Apex;


			https://www.amazon.com/Alphacool-Apex-Thermal-Grease-13036/dp/B0B51C4KHL
		

This stuff is pricey as well, but it's supposed to be excellent.


----------



## Borc (Dec 10, 2022)

freeagent said:


> SYY-157 is no more difficult to spread than Arctic Silver Ceramique II… Maybe they had some dry stuff, not sure. TFX is waaay thicker for sure, that stuff was a tough spread.. but it was cool in here and I didn’t warm it up.



The 2022 edition of SYY-157 is quite a bit less viscous than the older 2020/2021 edition, the spreading isn't really hard anymore and for sure quite easy compared to TFX or TF9. On my notebook it's 2 degrees less good however, even though I wouldn't expect the same on a desktop. I recently got two new pastes, Kooling Monster KOLD-01 and Aerocool FUZION. Both are seriously good on my notebook. I have no idea how they work on a desktop but if someone wants to try out something new, maybe this is something to look for..  



Spoiler: Kooling Monster KOLD-01+Aerocool FUZION



Kooling Monster KOLD-01 20.0
   80/82/80/79

Ceezon TG-128 19.2
   85/90/86/87

Aerocool FUZION 19.8
   79/82/80/80

SYY-157 2022 edition 19.5
   82/85/83/83

Arctic MX-6 19.6
   83/87/84/85

Alphacool Apex 19.6
   86/87/86/85

Phobya NanoGrease Extreme 19.6
   83/87/85/85

Thermalright TF8 19.6
   81/85/82/83

Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut 19.7
   81/83/82/82

Corsair XTM70 19.7
   81/85/83/83

Thermalright TF9 19.9
   80/83/82/81

Deepcool G40 19.8
   80/83/82/82

Coolermaster CryoFuze 19.8
   80/83/81/80

FUZEIce Plus 19.9
   83/86/83/83


----------



## freeagent (Dec 10, 2022)

Borc said:


> The 2022 edition of SYY-157 is quite a bit less viscous than the older 2020/2021 edition, the spreading isn't really hard anymore and for sure quite easy compared to TFX or TF9. On my notebook it's 2 degrees less good however, even though I wouldn't expect the same on a desktop. I recently got two new pastes, Kooling Monster KOLD-01 and Aerocool FUZION. Both are seriously good on my notebook. I have no idea how they work on a desktop but if someone wants to try out something new, maybe this is something to look for..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually now that you mention it some of the first tubes that I bought in 2021 were a bit stiff.. but 2022 is really nice to work with.


----------



## MachineLearning (Jan 2, 2023)

Damn - I was kind of thinking MX-2 might become EOL after MX-6 (with MX-4 becoming the new Arctic budget paste). Looks like it's happened, no stock on Amazon from Arctic Inc. either.








						MX-2 | High-Performance all-round Thermal Compound | ARCTIC
					

The ARCTIC MX-2 thermal compound guarantees an extremely high thermal conductivity and is very easy to use with an ideal consistency | Free delivery…




					www.arctic.de
				



Looks like I have to switch to MX-4 for bulk paste.


----------



## Pictus (Jan 2, 2023)

MachineLearning said:


> Damn - I was kind of thinking MX-2 might become EOL after MX-6 (with MX-4 becoming the new Arctic budget paste). Looks like it's happened, no stock on Amazon from Arctic Inc. either.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For bulk cheap paste, there is a *new *GD paste with better thermal conductivity in the GD line.


			https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804837917990.html
		

GD-2   = *7.5* W/mK
GD007 = 6.8 W/mK
GD900 = 4.8 W/mK

But I prefer the Shin-Etsu 7921, it is super ultra mega dry/dense and we have to heat
the heatsink or CPU with heat gun or hair dryer to proper apply a thin layer.


			https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804118261918.html
		


Some tests with GD pastes: (There is still no test for GD-2)


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 2, 2023)

Pictus said:


> For bulk cheap paste, there is a *new *GD paste with better thermal conductivity in the GD line.
> 
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804837917990.html
> ...


If they had a US shipping based Amazon or Ebay listing, I might try it out. AliExpress isn't very compelling comparatively for anyone in North America.


----------



## ThrashZone (Jan 2, 2023)

Hi,
Yep beware of aliexpress they always side with their seller if your shipment doesn't show up and they say it did.
Good thing for credit card support but time is against you their shipping is so slow.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 2, 2023)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yep beware of aliexpress they always side with their seller if your shipment doesn't show up and they say it did.
> Good thing for credit card support but time is against you their shipping is so slow.


Exactly.


----------



## Pictus (Jan 2, 2023)

lexluthermiester said:


> If they had a US shipping based Amazon or Ebay listing, I might try it out. AliExpress isn't very compelling comparatively for anyone in North America.


eBay:
GD-2 https://www.ebay.com/itm/255027657952
Shin-Etsu x-23-7921-5 X23-79215 https://www.ebay.com/itm/255157521183


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 3, 2023)

Pictus said:


> eBay:
> GD-2 https://www.ebay.com/itm/255027657952
> Shin-Etsu x-23-7921-5 X23-79215 https://www.ebay.com/itm/255157521183


One of those sellers isn't trustworthy and neither of them ship from somewhere other than China. 30 days shipping from China and $30 for 10grams? There are better TIMs for less money and faster shipping. No thanks.


----------



## jayjr1105 (Jan 3, 2023)

What's with all the Aliexpress fear mongering?  I've ordered dozens of tools/parts/electronics from them and literally never once had an issue where I wasn't refunded or sent a replacement after a few emails.  Over the summer I was getting things in less than 2 weeks.  Maybe different now with holiday mail backed up still.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 3, 2023)

jayjr1105 said:


> What's with all the Aliexpress fear mongering?


It's not fearmongering. It's experience. I'm not willing to wait 1 or 2 months for something to arrive only to discover that it's either not as it should be or broken. AliExpress is ok for those who do not live in an area with excellent shopping options. For the rest of us Amazon, Ebay and local etailers/retailers are a greatly better solution.


----------



## jayjr1105 (Jan 3, 2023)

You have to watch out for the shipping methods offered for items.  The super economy stuff can be slow, it's usually only a $1 to upgrade to standard Ali shipping which includes full tracking.  These are always between 2-3 weeks for me.  For certain things, Ali is the only choice.  Amazon doesn't have everything.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 3, 2023)

jayjr1105 said:


> These are always between 2-3 weeks for me.


That's still WAY too much time. If it's not on my doorstep within a week, someone is doing something very wrong.


jayjr1105 said:


> For certain things, Ali is the only choice. Amazon doesn't have everything.


As a general rule, I have not seen anything on AliExpress that can not also be found in our local national economy. I'm sure there exceptions to that, but they are very few.

You're not successfully debating your point for people in North America, the UK or the EU.


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## jayjr1105 (Jan 3, 2023)

I build my own custom Gameboy flash cartridges, some of the chips need sourced from aliexpress, it's literally the only option as 5v logic isn't in production anymore.


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## lexluthermiester (Jan 3, 2023)

jayjr1105 said:


> I build my own custom Gameboy flash cartridges, some of the chips need sourced from aliexpress, it's literally the only option as 5v logic isn't in production anymore. View attachment 277371


Ok, now see, that is an EXTREME exception, not the rule. People don't commonly make stuff like this. And such is not the point of the discussion of this thread. TIM's are widely and abundantly available in most local economies. AliExpress does not and can not compete with that.


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## ThrashZone (Jan 3, 2023)

Hi,
It's always nice "not to mention ezpz" when people fill in a simple region to know where they're coming from in a point of view

Between amazon and USA ebay sellers I've not had a lot of reason to retry aliexpress after a first blunder in ali... customer support I'd rather skip fuck me twice attempts


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## jayjr1105 (Jan 3, 2023)

Pictus said:


> For bulk cheap paste, there is a *new *GD paste with better thermal conductivity in the GD line.
> 
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804837917990.html
> ...


Thanks, ordered some.  I'll report when I get em.


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