# Corsair Vengeance LPX 3600-CL18 OC for Ryzen 5 3600



## Freeco (Aug 12, 2019)

I've recently done a new build based on a Ryzen 5 3600. I haven't done any overclocking since the early 2000's, but as Zen CPU's pretty effectively OC themselves and can benefit from quick memory, I'm curious what I can get out of my RAM. Just for fun, btw, nothing too extravagant. I want to keep the system rock solid.
I paired the Ryzen 5 3600 with an Asus Prime X470-Pro, and spent slightly more on the RAM compared to an ordinary 3200MHz CL16 set: I went for a Corsair Vengeance LPX kit at 3600MHz CL18-22-22-42.
After reading up on RAM OC'ing a bit, I found the DRAM Calculator for Ryzen on TPU. Helpful tool, definitely! To figure out which chips are on the DIMMs, I used Thaiphoon Burned. It tells me it has Micron E dies.

This is what the calc suggests as safe settings:


I started extremely conservative, and after a few iterations I currently have CL16, tRCDrd 19, tRCDwr 16, tRP 16, tRAS 36. Still at 1.35V btw.
I tried getting tRCDrd under 19, but  I can't get the system completely stable, even after cranking up the voltage to 1.4V which the calc suggests as max.
The more secondary timings I pretty much left as is, for now. I had a little experiment with Trdwr, tFAW and ProcODT, but that miserably fails. I reverted them back to auto.

I'm looking for a little guidance here, how to progress...
What's the deal with the tRCDrd? How could I get it from 19 to the suggested 17. A higher voltage? Or do the other mentioned voltages in the calc play a role?
Secondly, how do I best test stability? I now use the MEMbench that comes with the calc as a quick 5min check. If there aren't any popups running the test, I do a +30min Prime95 run. No errors there I consider the settings stable.
How do I test whether a change actually improves performance, and with how much? Till now, I looked at the time MEMbench needs to run. I'm now at 300.14 sec. A little experiment moving from 3600 to 3733MHz actually resulted in a 1.5% perf loss: 304.66s. So is this a good tool to make an evaluation, or is there better out there?


----------



## phanbuey (Aug 12, 2019)

the TRFC is the timing you want to get as low as possible (400? less?).

I personally like stability testing with Forza Horizon 4 - drive around for about 30 mins followed by a few hours of aida stability test stressing memory.

I also like to test performance using Far Cry 5 benchmark (VERY latency sensitive) as well as AIDA 64 memory test.


----------



## Taraquin (Aug 13, 2019)

Some good News for you: tRCDRD and tRCDWR has very little impact to performance. tCL and tRFC on the other hand matters a lot. You may not notice any difference in games or apps what-so-ever With 18\19 on tRCDRD and tRCDWR, especially tRCDRD is really Close tied to stability and lowering it affects stability a lot.

My suggestion: Try 16-19-18-36 and try lowering tRFC (along With CL it is usually the value that affects gaming the most). Micron has the most problems With low tRFC, but maybe you can try 550, then lower to 500 etc. tRFC has a tendency to be totally stable at one value, if you lower it by 5, then you can`t boot all of a sudden.


----------



## Freeco (Aug 13, 2019)

For tRFC I got a bit confused with what the calc suggested: 630 and alt 560. When I look in the BIOS (well, I should say UEFI) it's set to 'auto' with an actual value of 312 (and tRFC2 192, tRFC4 132). So, that's good, right? Lower is better for this one?
I can try to reduce CL to 15 or 14. I haven't tried anything lower than 16 so far. Any other timings I could focus on?

About the game tests. You should know I'm not a gamer, at all. Not since the early 2000's, like my previous OC experience. To run the FC5 benchmark, I assume you need to buy the game, right? Or can you download just the benchmark somewhere?
I already had a look at AIDA64 Extreme earlier this week, but I don't want to spend $40 on a license for this kind of thing. It would made more sense to have spent it on higher-spec RAM  The trial version only shows some of the values, so basically not that useful.
I'm looking for some freeware tool (at least something dirt cheap). Something like that MEMbench that comes with the calc. Or is it good enough to evaluate performance gain/loss?


----------



## Freeco (Nov 27, 2019)

Blowing a little dust of this topic, cause I think I've reached the end of the line on tinkering with my RAM timings.
First of, next to the Ryzen DRAM Calc I also found some useful info and suggestions here and here. Maybe it can help someone else...
I kept track of my tests in a sheet. The timings in column BX is what I ended up with. Each iteration was tested with a Membench in Ryzen DRAM Calc (scores at the bottom) and 45-60mins of Prime95. If no errors popped up in those 2 tests I consider it to be stable.
Every few tests I also ran a run of TechArp's x264 HD Benchmark. The avg of 4 runs are also shown at the bottom. It's free, and you could say this is a real-world test. While Membench is more a synthetic test, I guess.
I left out some of my early tests, and all the failed tests. I tried tweaking every timing up to row 39 'power down enable', but those last ones I couldn't get to work without spawning errors.


Now, what bothers me is that the timings in column BG have the highest score for the x264 test. I did further tweak some other timings, which resulted in a faster Membench run, but lower fps for x264 encoding. That's kinda contradictory... 
2ndly, I also ran MemTest86 a few times, and even while bumping up the voltage to 1.45V I can't get it to pass 4 runs successfully.  And this I take quite seriously. Stability stays the prime focus.

Anyone some advice? Why I could see a negative effect on the x264 encoding speed near the end?
For MemTest86 I think I'll just backtrack a few iterations, to eg column BG, and see if it passes those timings.


----------



## examen1996 (Jan 15, 2020)

@Freeco I want to thank you, I can even remember when I last signed in here, but for all the work you done and how much you helped me with my memory overclock I searched for my account and signed in just to say THANK YOU.

I got the same corsair ram stick (i searched for the product code and that's how i reached your post) and this is what I achieved after about a day of overclocking .







You work is admirable and highly appreciated, thank you for documenting it as meticulously as you did.


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 15, 2020)

Can you screenshot and post the following?







First is Thaiphoon Burner software (click read and select 1 module)
For RyzenMaster please have the latest version
And AIDA64 is a paid benchmark (FYI) or you can run them individually...



Have your board's UEFI to the latest version(AGESA)
Win10 to the latest v1909
and latest Chipset drivers directly from AMD (not ASUS)


----------



## examen1996 (Jan 16, 2020)

Hey @Zach_01 









Above you have the requested info, also , I am running the latest bios from asus, latest chipset drivers from amd and ryzen master is also the latest iteration (I only got the machine last friday , so everything is new ) )


Please let me know if you want to see anything else


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 16, 2020)

You said you have R5 3600 and have it on your profile specs too, but from RyzenMaster and AIDA I can see the 3700X...
Whats the deal?


----------



## Chomiq (Jan 16, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> You said you have R5 3600 and have it on your profile specs too, but from RyzenMaster and AIDA I can see the 3700X...
> Whats the deal?


Last guy is not the OP?


----------



## Freeco (Jan 17, 2020)

you're welcome examen1996  Glad it helped someone. 
And no, Chomiq, I'm the OP.
Should I also post screenshots??


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 17, 2020)

Freeco said:


> you're welcome examen1996  Glad it helped someone.
> And no, Chomiq, I'm the OP.
> Should I also post screenshots??


If you like...
When I saw this thread yesterday I misread it for new one... and asked for pics since you asked for help...


----------



## Freeco (Jan 18, 2020)

Here you go then...
My trial period of AIDA64 already expired quite some time ago. These are the individual runs:
Memory Read: 52098 MB/s
Memory Write: 28730 MB/s
Memory Copy: 49448 MB/s
Memory Latency: 68.3 ns


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 18, 2020)

From the RyzenMaster pic I see the CPU SOC voltage to 1.36V (!)
Is this correct I wonder? Did you set it or the board by itself?
From what I know the max safe 24/7 voltage for SOC is 1.25V and this 1.36V, if true, could hurt the I/O chip longterm


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 18, 2020)

Freeco said:


> Here you go then...
> My trial period of AIDA64 already expired quite some time ago. These are the individual runs:
> Memory Read: 52098 MB/s
> Memory Write: 28730 MB/s
> ...


Comparable to mine


----------



## Freeco (Jan 19, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> From the RyzenMaster pic I see the CPU SOC voltage to 1.36V (!)
> Is this correct I wonder? Did you set it or the board by itself?
> From what I know the max safe 24/7 voltage for SOC is 1.25V and this 1.36V, if true, could hurt the I/O chip longterm


You mean the value for VDDCR SOC, right? Actually you make an interesting point...
No, I didn't change that in the UEFI settings, it's still on auto. All that's non-stock here is the DRAM voltage, which is set to 1.35V by applying the XMP profile.

And basically all I changed are these DRAM timings:

And further down the screen also the values for tRFC, tRFC2, tRFC4 and CR.

I'm curious why VDDCR SOC is reported to be so high. Cause it might be the reason why I hardly see the SOC power below 10W at idle.
I've built a slightly slimmed down desktop for my sister last month, also built around a Ryzen 5 3600, and on this one I see the SOC power goes down to 5W at idle.

It might just be Ryzen Master not showing the proper value. HWiNFO64 6.20 says SoC Voltage (SVI2 TFN) is at 1.087V. Or isn't that the same thing?


----------



## GorbazTheDragon (Jan 19, 2020)

I just manually locked SoC voltage to 1.1v on my board (same model)... More voltage =/= more stability for that one past that point.

Micron rev E runs very high RCDRD, and RCD generally doesn't scale with voltage so you can't expect that to become more stable.

As far as the performance regression goes, it might be caused by GDM going on or off. I would lock that to on and retest multiple times to reduce variance. Given that you say it doesn't pass memtest86, I'm inclined to believe that it's partially stable, not enough to crash, but enough to cause the benchmark to lose performance due to repeating things.


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 19, 2020)

SoC voltage SVI2 is the same but HWiNFO has even another value for this, in a section below that one (CPU VCORE SOC).
Around 1.05~1.1V is the default for ZEN2.
Must be wrong reading from RyzenMaster. It doesn’t show at all Memory and memVTT voltage. Is the latest version?
Make sure to have latest BIOS, latest chipset drivers from AMD (not ASUS), latest win10 version, and latest RyzenMaster version.

As for SOC power consumption mine also stays constantly around 12W but:
1. have disabled power savings for SOC (CPU Uncore/SoC OC Mode: enabled)
2. raised voltage for cLDO VDDP/VDDG

Your sister’s system what ram runs?
Ram speed, infinity fabric speed, mem controller speed... can all affect power of SOC.

Can you post a full page of HWiNFO?


----------



## GorbazTheDragon (Jan 19, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> It doesn’t show at all Memory and memVTT voltage. Is the latest version?


Doesn't show on my X470 prime pro either (in ryzen master, and there is no DRAM voltage sensor shown in hwinfo either), presumably something with the board not exposing that sensor/controller.

I am getting around 11-12w on the SoC rail at the moment while running x-plane...


----------



## ocbenny (Jan 20, 2020)

Freeco, nice thread. I have the same memory as you do. Instead of letting ryzen dram calc to the xmp, did you try and export a html report from typhoon burner and import it to ryzen dram calc? Full instructions in the comments. I got all primary and secondary timings running today and tested out as in the video posted without error..


----------



## examen1996 (Jan 21, 2020)

Coming back to this thread I have some questions that may sound stupid.
Have you ever encountered situations where like games (AC Odyssey and Witcher 3) start and run(and when you are playing them they wont crash, no matter how long you play them), however after some time, be it in idle, or just after some youtube you are not able to open them back up ?. And only those 2 .

I don't understand, passed the passmark memtest (left it to do all the runs) and ran prime95's blend(without avx) test for 2 hours, no errors or instability. 
However , these 2 games behave strange. And now I ask you guys(since i don't have experience with ram oc), should I just revert to xmp ?

Memtest passes with flying colors, prime95 and aida64 also no problem, and never did I had stutters or games crashing on me . And also even when they don't start, others such as Forza horizon 4, work without problems.


----------



## Freeco (Jan 21, 2020)

AFAIK I have the latest Ryzen Master. When I let it check for updates, it says it's the latest version. The About page mentions 2.1.0.1424.
(it's a bit annoying AMD doesn't mention a version on the download page...)
Yeah, and I did install the latest BIOS for the board (5406 with agesa 1.0.0.4), and I have the chipset drivers from the AMD site (1.11.22.454). But I see last week 2.01.15.2138 was released. I'll install this in a moment. 

Here's some screenshots from HWiNFO (I left out the bottom part for my SSD/GPU/NIC)
 
 
(the good observer will notice I'm no gamer )

The RAM in my sister's build is quite similar to mine. Also Corsair Vengeance LPX 3600MHz 18-22-22-42, but I believe it's a different SKU. If I remember well it had different IC's than my sticks. I left hers at XMP timings, as she's not the 'tinkerer' like I am 

ocbenny, what good would it do to export the report from TB and import that in Ryzen Calc?


----------



## examen1996 (Jan 21, 2020)

@Freeco  The reason why importing the profile is ,,better'' is that you really put in your memory timing (auto reading is a bit off, usually some values are higher , some lower ), however, the numbers you ahve already reached (the low timings) are beyond the safe values , so you wont gain anything from it .

Below you can see the values with the imported(exported with taiphoon burner) profile:


----------



## examen1996 (Jan 23, 2020)

UPDATE: Just got back on my standard xmp profile, and the games that i sometimes have issues starting are still randomly not starting.
As said before, other games work fine, this + the fact that all my overclocks passed the 2h+  passmark memtest and my own prime blend 2h + make me think that the oc was actually stable, and that the issue is with some driver or with the games itself .

What do you guys think, every oppinion is reatly appreciated.


----------



## Chomiq (Jan 23, 2020)

Do you have the games running minimized on taskbar and they don't return to normal state or do they don't start at all? Some games act up when minimized so that's normal.


----------



## examen1996 (Jan 23, 2020)

@Chomiq The games in question are AC ODYSSEY and WITCHER 3, if i would to restart the machine, they would run (start, be playable all that , and i can play them without crashes or latency spikes).
However, if i leave my computer idle for some time like 1-2 hours(and even so this is not a 100% reproduceable behaviour) they might not start like at all, not minimised nothing at all.
But the strange part is , anything else would still work/start, i can play forza, or GTA V, paladins , apex legends , you name it it starts.

Initially i thought that maybe the ram oc that i had was to blame, but now I', inclined to say that it's a game related issue , which I'm ok with, i jsut want to be sure my system is stable.


----------



## ocbenny (Jan 24, 2020)

Freeco not saying it will be better for you. The timings it gave me were closer to what my memory could handle. Seems you were lucky with your memory, I cant get the trcdrd below 21. I run 16-21-21-21-36 now on 1,4 V. Ive also entered all the sub and tertiery timings. Using a ryzen 5 3500x/b450 msi max gaming plus.

Edit.. Just realized there are two 3600 corsair lpx 3600 , they have the same product number which is confusing, one which is optimized for amd,  running  at 18-19-19-39 vs. 18-22-22-42. I have the later one. And trcdrd doesnt scale with voltage.


----------



## examen1996 (Jan 27, 2020)

@ocbenny Op has the same kit as you(and me ), like you I cant really get the memory stable at such extrem timing (even thou I tried, and it looked stable , passed memtest and 2h of prime95).
The strange part is , my kit of ram is not running ,,stable '' at 3.5 xmp settings, it has a general laggyness about it (im talking pure normal usage, not benchmarks).
I too just switched to 1.4 and to the safe presets of ryzen calculator, it just runs better.
The reason why the kit is behaving badly(at least in my oppinion) is because we(the people which got the 18-22-22-42  ) have an older revision, which were not validated for ryzen anyway sice it was realeased in 2017 ......so yeah, corsair is acting wierd om that one , but I digress.

Now , talking real world(and if I am wrong please correct me) after you get the memory stable at cl16 1.4v , the only question left is should you or should you not get a fan for the ram, that one I'm still debating on


----------



## Freeco (Jan 28, 2020)

To be clear (but I already linked to it in my OP) this is the SKU of Corsair Vengeance LPX I have: CMK16GX4M2D3600C18





						VENGEANCE® LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 DRAM 3600MHz C18 Memory Kit - Black
					

VENGEANCE LPX memory is designed for high-performance overclocking. The heatspreader is made of pure aluminum for faster heat dissipation, and the eight-layer PCB helps manage heat and provides superior overclocking headroom.




					www.corsair.com
				



Mine has Micron E-dies.

As mentioned I bought the same set for my sister's Ryzen build. I didn't bother tinkering with the timings for her, but I did check which IC's her set had, and saw it was from a different brand (don't recall which, sorry). So apparently Corsair uses different ICs for the same SKU's, which can then explain why my results are better than yours. Anyway, likely not all ICs perform the same, even from the same brand.

Btw, there's another set like it, with a different SKU: CMK16GX4M2*B*3600C18. But this one runs at 2x8GB DDR4 CL18-19-19-39 @1.35V


----------



## moproblems99 (Jan 28, 2020)

examen1996 said:


> The games in question are AC ODYSSEY and WITCHER 3, if i would to restart the machine, they would run (start, be playable all that , and i can play them without crashes or latency spikes).



Sounds like a component or service is crashing and being left in an unusable state and the reset is reinitting them.  Check event viewer for any errors.


----------



## examen1996 (Jan 28, 2020)

@moproblems99  Thank you for helping  . I think it was just the overclock not being stable enough , even thou the memtest passed , the strange behaviour kept on happening. Little did I know , using my safe configuration , setting the voltage to 1.4 (used to have 1.39) and switching the procodt to 32 kep the machine stable. Now i guess I could overclock further , but after having the kit running at standard xmp and making my machine work like crap...im just glad i found the sweet spot.


Again , thank you very much for your input, your are right !


----------



## JasonToddRH (Apr 16, 2020)

@Freeco I Just want to thank you for existing and granting me a cheater's guide to ram overclocking, otherwise I would have probably stuck to xmp like the procrastinating peasant that I am. Also, if you would have the time to answer a few of my further questions on the matter, I would be forever grateful and even willing to pay for some insight in the mistery that is ram OC on ryzen 3rd gen.


----------



## Freeco (Apr 16, 2020)

sure, shoot me some questions.
If I'll be able to answer them is another thing. I also just read some guides from a couple of other guys, and the rest was trial and error.


----------



## JasonToddRH (Apr 17, 2020)

Freeco said:


> sure, shoot me some questions.
> If I'll be able to answer them is another thing. I also just read some guides from a couple of other guys, and the rest was trial and error.


Well, first off, I'll list key specs that may be relevant: I have the exact same cpu and RAM sticks you do, but I'm rocking the x570 aorus ultra, so I've thought that might give me some more headroom into Overclocking (RAM at least). I was not interested in raising the clock any higher than 3600, because that would, in turn, get me out of the 1:1 ratio everyone talks about(although it seems like no big deal) and I'll probably end up messing with my infinity fabric to remain into that 1:1... Buuut that's a subject for another time.  I'm only interested in tightening up timing for the time being.

So... Off the top of my head:
Has the "fast" profile in the DRAM Calculator worked for you?
Have you managed to get trfc under 560 whilst still having good primary and secundary timings?
And if I get some good G.skill 3600 16 16 16 32, should I push the timings further or work on the clock and then the infinity fabric? Because AMD said that the IF clock set to a stable 1900 isn't something most of their cpus can do.
About those G.skill sticks again: Would they be a good upgrade for 70$? (after selling mine).


----------



## Freeco (Apr 17, 2020)

no, the fast preset didn't work for me. I didn't keep that excel sheet with all my notes, but I remember tCL 14 didn't run stable, I think I didn't even boot with a voltage bump up to 1.5V.
tRFC at 560 was the lowest I could go.
Overall, I used the presets in the DRAM Calc as rough guidelines. Some of the advised timings didn't work for me, while others I could even go beyond.

Likely those GSkill sticks will perform better. The advertised specs are what they've been tested with, but chances you can squeeze a CL15 or even lower out of them are realistic. But... it depends. That's the silicon lottery.
Is it worth the extra 70$? Imo not... I just wanted decent DDR4 3600 CL18 sticks instead of going for a cheapo 3200 CL16 set, and tried to squeeze a little extra out of them just for fun. But if I see the performance increase between the stock timings and my current tweaked timings, don't expect huge improvements from going to even stricter timings. I'd spend that money on something else. But that's just me 

btw, you could also try bumping your infinity fabric to 1866MHz and your RAM speed to twice that. I did a few experiments with that, but I think I was a bit restricted by my older X470 motherboard, which was only certified up to 3600MT. Yours might do better.


----------



## JasonToddRH (Apr 22, 2020)

Freeco said:


> no, the fast preset didn't work for me. I didn't keep that excel sheet with all my notes, but I remember tCL 14 didn't run stable, I think I didn't even boot with a voltage bump up to 1.5V.
> tRFC at 560 was the lowest I could go.
> Overall, I used the presets in the DRAM Calc as rough guidelines. Some of the advised timings didn't work for me, while others I could even go beyond.
> 
> ...



I will definetly try cranking up my IF and let you know how that goes. For the time being, tho, I feel as if I've tinkered with enough of my components for a while and I plan on enjoying some good old games. I will come back to tinkering and let you know how the IF clocks respond to my gentle touch. Thank you again for the insight, I wouldn't have touched ram timings this much without it.


----------



## examen1996 (Apr 22, 2020)

Hello @Freeco  , @JasonToddRH 

The ram is not running well at the fast preset, for me neither does the safe, the one that runs best is at 3600 is 16-19-19-19-39-64-561
However I have tried and tried all the combinations in the world ) , and i can tell you for a fast, it's a rabbit hole, you can run the ram with gdm off(shaves 0.5 from that pesky latency), that need 16-20-19-19-39-64-561 at 1.37 V.
The one that i find to be the most ,,bang for the buck'' is 3733 16-20-20-20-40-64-570 at 1.4V , gdm off. It's not that much voltage and the system is running fine.
The most extreme however(subjective , but whatever) is running 3800 at 16-21-19-19-39-62-580  at 1.44V GDM OFF , there are a few other settings that need to be done for this to be stable.
3600: 



http://imgur.com/a/6UXBBCe

3733: 



http://imgur.com/a/TXiQhPN

3800: 



http://imgur.com/a/J81KoXo


----------



## mxking035 (Sep 4, 2020)

examen1996 said:


> Hello @Freeco  , @JasonToddRH
> 
> The ram is not running well at the fast preset, for me neither does the safe, the one that runs best is at 3600 is 16-19-19-19-39-64-561
> However I have tried and tried all the combinations in the world ) , and i can tell you for a fast, it's a rabbit hole, you can run the ram with gdm off(shaves 0.5 from that pesky latency), that need 16-20-19-19-39-64-561 at 1.37 V.
> ...



Hi, can you share your subtimings?


----------



## examen1996 (Sep 5, 2020)

mxking035 said:


> Hi, can you share your subtimings?


Well you can find most of them in the photo albums, currently I'm running at 3733 because of summer + no ac  . But yeah sure you will have them on monday


----------



## mxking035 (Sep 5, 2020)

examen1996 said:


> Well you can find most of them in the photo albums, currently I'm running at 3733 because of summer + no ac  . But yeah sure you will have them on monday


I'm using 4 sticks ram: 2x8Gb E-Die and 2x8Gb B-Die all same as part numbers as yours. I cannot lower my latency any further. Which one is more important is it latency or the read-write-copy?


----------



## Fry178 (Sep 5, 2020)

Having build a few R5/7 rigs in past 12-14 month, some info:

Having ram on the motherboard list is just showing you they ran it, not that its guaranteed to work.
All Gskills i tried (even had different chips on em) were listed and none of the Gb X570 would even POST,
but perform at XMP level on other brands (x570).
the two Corsair kits (different chips) not listed for the GB that virtually everyone recommended NOT to get,
worked flawlessly.
All kits were XMP (Not A-XMP), so the oc isnt even verified for amd boards.

Same part number doesnt mean jack for ram, i can have 2 different chips from different brands, so mixing is not a good idea,
nor does it mean all will perf identical, and with AMD having a little more sensitivity on the mem controller,
i dont recommend running sticks with different dies , even if its the same brand.

One Corsair kit (3600-18-22-22-42) with Samsung die would only do XMP (1.35),
when the next kit (same model) with Micron chips can do 3600-16-19-19-36/1T@1.33v on the same board/bios/cpu.

and none of the "3 digit" settings from the calculator i tried (no matter if oc or safe), so they just staid on xmp level.

i do recommend  trying 1.35v first, and this allows you to stabilize oc/timings later on with a bit added voltage.
do have good airflow, especially on Bdies. they clock good but hate higher temps and usually get unstable pretty quickly
when you put load on the rig and it warms up.


----------



## examen1996 (Sep 5, 2020)

There are a few things that impact your settings , first and most important is that you have 4 dims , which are far harder to drive. You will need to change cad bus block settings (use the alt1 from my screenshot) and a few voltages(first pic was what i used to achieve stable 3800 oc.
I helped another guys recently , same ram(2 dims only) a 3600 on a b450 mortar, he also couldn't go lower than 16-21-21... .


----------



## Fry178 (Sep 5, 2020)

Going past 3600 wont make sense for most ppl just looking to get what they paid for (for different reasons).

I dont remember where i saw it, but some engineering info from a manufacturer (ram?) was talking about mem controller/IF,
of 100% (zen2) cpus sampled, + 60% were able to reach 3600, about 20ish for 3733, und around 5-10% able to hit 38xx).
as well as multiple test/reviews i saw (on on guru3d) showing the sweet spot is 3600 and lowering timings as much as possible.

not talking about someone dropping +300$ on some 64gb Bdie dominator kit...


----------



## examen1996 (Sep 5, 2020)

Fry178 said:


> Going past 3600 wont make sense for most ppl just looking to get what they paid for (for different reasons).
> 
> I dont remember where i saw it, but some engineering info from a manufacturer (ram?) was talking about mem controller/IF,
> of 100% (zen2) cpus sampled, + 60% were able to reach 3600, about 20ish for 3733, und around 5-10% able to hit 38xx).
> ...



I agree with you but, we are talking about an overclock , on a techsite. The fact that after 3600 de gains are minimal is well known but I can say/show that you do gain some fps by going all in with the ram. I stopped experimenting after a while because it was getting annoying . But then again, if your desktop is a gaming machine only and you dont do work stuff with it, a little bit of tunning can get you a some more point in 3d mark and 4-5 fps . If that's worth the huge amount of time needed for stability testing ....well that is subjective.


----------



## Fry178 (Sep 5, 2020)

oh sure, but even if your on a site about tweaking/tuning, doesnt mean everyone knows the same amount.
lots of ppl come here/read post because of a google search/recommendation etc, and not because they wanna post about their latest LN2 session 

just have seen too many times where less experienced users (i shall say) are glancing over posts and dont realise, YMMV..


----------



## Taraquin (Sep 7, 2020)

Fry178 said:


> Going past 3600 wont make sense for most ppl just looking to get what they paid for (for different reasons).
> 
> I dont remember where i saw it, but some engineering info from a manufacturer (ram?) was talking about mem controller/IF,
> of 100% (zen2) cpus sampled, + 60% were able to reach 3600, about 20ish for 3733, und around 5-10% able to hit 38xx).
> ...


Actually with the latest Agesa 3733 seems possible with Zen 2 for most people with 2 dimms, 4 dimms is harder unless you have t-top. 3800 is also possible for a lot more people now than at release. they gains from 3600 to 3733 aren`t great, but after some testing I see basically the same performance in games with 3600cl14 as 3733cl16, both with tuned subs + GDM off, 1t, cl14 is much easier to achieve on 3600 than 3733 (on my rev E), but it seems like some games and apps prefers the extra BW over slightly lower latency.


----------



## mxking035 (Sep 7, 2020)

examen1996 said:


> There are a few things that impact your settings , first and most important is that you have 4 dims , which are far harder to drive. You will need to change cad bus block settings (use the alt1 from my screenshot) and a few voltages(first pic was what i used to achieve stable 3800 oc.
> I helped another guys recently , same ram(2 dims only) a 3600 on a b450 mortar, he also couldn't go lower than 16-21-21... .


Thank you for sharing. With this 3733 does your CPU temp increase for daily use?

Update: I just tried 2 sticks only and tRCDRD got below 21 like 16-19-19-36 but found out no benefits lowering it too much and just increasing Write but sacrifice Read, stability and voltage requirement. I tried this with my self limit of max vDram=1.37v and vSoC=1.1v ProcODT=53.3Ω and recommended tRP not lower than tRCDRD (I read somewhere):

Read:Write:Copy:Latency  - All tested in TM5, MemTest64 (10 Loops) and my Game - no error, no game crash
16-21-21-21-42 - 1.36v  soc=1.050v : 54,939 — 53,123 — 55,626 — 68.4  —  same setting as 4 sticks, little loose secondary & tertiary timing
16-21-21-21-42 - 1.36v  soc=1.050v : 55,400 — 53,300 — 55,800 — 68.2  —  approx only, no screenshot - optimize secondary and tertiary
16-20-20-20-40 - 1.36v  soc=1.075v : 55,499 — 53,394 — 56,564 — 67.8  —  same 2nd and 3rd timing
16-19-16-19-36 - 1.37v  soc=1.100v : 55,186 — 53,697 — 56,531 — 67.8  —  same 2nd and 3rd timing

found out 16-20-20-40 is better so i will not get too far ratio from tRC and tRFC as it is limited by ram.  Also this tRC and tFAW crashing my mid game (Dota2 - Max Settings) even it pass the TM5 and MemTest64. So I better stay with higher on that as it has small benefits in latency.

For me, better to optimized the secondary and tertiary timings before proceeding to lower primary as it increase more read/write/copy with lower latency and get it stable with ProcODT/RTT with lower voltage of DRAM and SoC requirements.

This is only my experience and this post also is my first search in google overclocking by searching my ram like examen1996 so big help from Freeco on examen1996 also learned here about importing thaiphoon is better and more stable baseline.

3600 16-21-21-21-42 tRFC=575 @1.36v






3600 16-20-20-20-40 tRFC=558 @1.36v






3600 16-19-16-19-36 tRFC=558 @1.37v


----------



## examen1996 (Sep 7, 2020)

mxking035 said:


> Thank you for sharing. With this 3733 does your CPU temp increase for daily use?
> 
> Update: I just tried 2 sticks only and tRCDRD got below 21 like 16-19-19-36 but found out no benefits lowering it too much and just increasing Write but sacrifice Read, stability and voltage requirement. I tried this with my self limit of max vDram=1.37v and vSoC=1.1v ProcODT=53.3Ω and recommended tRP not lower than tRCDRD (I read somewhere):
> 
> ...


Heh, yeah , lets just say i wa sa enthusiast noob and a lot of people had a lot of patience with m ) .
How did you get those increadible read scores my dude , is it because of the cpu ?, i thought it only affected the write performance....now i want  new cpu )

Regarding the temps, I think it might got hotter , but like I already had a NH-d14 in a phanteks p400a full of fans ..... my cooling is a bit overkill for this cpu, I prepared for it as it was my last cpu (Fx-8120 ) )

What I can tell you and this is more than bro science is that ram overclocking is a bit of masochist work, sometimes you can get lower numbers (timings i mean) and the results can be worse.
Or, my favorite , lower timings, better results but you get issues like micro-stutters in some games.(looking at you Forza horizon 4).

One great example of my pain is you last set of scores, 3600 16-19-16-19-36 , I bet my cheap ass rx 580 that if I put those numbers in my bios , in about 3-4 hours of memtest, without any errors, some games will simply stop working, AC Odyssey being one.

I took a few photos of what I'm running now, with voltages and all, I have been running this combination for more than 3 months with games, Linux with VMs that had hardware pass-through enable(got my masters degree this year  ) and a boatload of 3dmark().

Another config that boosts your performance is GDM, if you manage to disable you GDM, my boy you are going to share some time off that pesky latency, and it's also a indicator that you really do have a stable oc on your ram .
But be aware that when you disable it, you will probably have to change your cad bus drive settings, I always do 60-20-20-40 (as shown here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1c3RTF_ZPjep-Zfimgoca2Ef1gSjZM0rSHVWLkknbfUI/edit#gid=0 ) . 

If you want to continue your OC experiment, let me know, I would gladly help you with what I can


----------



## mxking035 (Sep 7, 2020)

examen1996 said:


> Heh, yeah , lets just say i wa sa enthusiast noob and a lot of people had a lot of patience with m ) .
> Another config that boosts your performance is GDM, if you manage to disable you GDM, my boy you are going to share some time off that pesky latency, and it's also a indicator that you really do have a stable oc on your ram .
> But be aware that when you disable it, you will probably have to change your cad bus drive settings, I always do 60-20-20-40 (as shown here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1c3RTF_ZPjep-Zfimgoca2Ef1gSjZM0rSHVWLkknbfUI/edit#gid=0 ) .
> If you want to continue your OC experiment, let me know, I would gladly help you with what I can



Thanks for the link, I'll check this one. I didn't tried yet disabling GDM but i will try It with that Cad Bus.
My Cad Bus in Auto is 60-20-20-20 in 2 sticks, and change it to 24-30-24-24 as recommended by 1usmus and 24-20-24-24 for 4 sticks which is also same as Auto.

Regarding read, before I tried only primary and got around 51Gb/s, and from XMP 72ns to 70.6ns
After changing *tCKE* from 9 to 1, tRDRD-SCL & tWRWR-SCL from 6,6 to 5,5, tFAW: 38 to 35, Read jump from 51gb.s to 56gb/s in 4 sticks.

I notice that your tCKE is 0, can you try it for 1. I will try your settings and check if the CPU play the role on this.


----------



## examen1996 (Sep 7, 2020)

I forgot to add this to my earlier post : 



http://imgur.com/a/b0G9iON


----------



## Fry178 (Sep 7, 2020)

in general power down/gear down should be off (when ocing ram) on ryzen anyway.

@mxking035
primary timings are much more important than S/T timings, at least when it comes to ryzen.
you want to get to/close to 3600 (1800 mhz) and then lower timings as much as possible.


----------



## mxking035 (Sep 7, 2020)

Fry178 said:


> in general power down/gear down should be off (when ocing ram) on ryzen anyway.
> 
> @mxking035
> primary timings are much more important than S/T timings, at least when it comes to ryzen.
> you want to get to/close to 3600 (1800 mhz) and then lower timings as much as possible.


I mean in our case and results lowering primary while stuck at tRFC doesnt gain only its adding voltage. Comparing to previous post 16-19-16-36 my 16-20-20-40 has better results. Even we reach 16-16 still tRFC=560 in our ram.

That's why I mention "found out 16-20-20-40 is better so i will not get too far ratio from tRC and *tRFC as it is limited by ram* ". That's why *examen1996* mention that "bang for the buck'' is 3733 16-20-20-20-40-64-570...." atleast we can still use our tRFC in this case .

In addition: Read in 1usmus post that best value for tRFC is between 6x tRC to 8x tRC which our ram barely reach x10.


----------



## Fry178 (Sep 7, 2020)

well, my kit does 3600@ 16-19-19-19-36-58-312, voltage 1.35-1.36 and its enough for me.
not gonna spend the extra time to get it to work at 3733, as the Gb x570 are a bit bitchy with ram,
and all bios updates for ram "improvement" actually made stuff worse.


----------



## mxking035 (Sep 7, 2020)

Fry178 said:


> in general power down/gear down should be off (when ocing ram) on ryzen anyway.


Noted.  



Fry178 said:


> primary timings are much more important than S/T timings, at least when it comes to ryzen.
> you want to get to/close to 3600 (1800 mhz) and then lower timings as much as possible.


I highly agree with this. However considering lowering primary comes together with lowering tRFC for better effects. But in this ram stopped at some point of adding advantage due to tRFC limit that's why my 16-19 and 16-20 has same results, or even better in 16-20 cuz i don't need to add vSoC. Sorry for my english.

What also I mean in start with S/T  is just my own advice or my own way with starting safe Primary in Dram Calculator 16-21-21-42-64-561 and XMP S/T, I maximized my S/T and I will easily point out where the errors comes, sometimes even passed the test, still game crash in middle.

that's why:
*I knew that tRC or tFAW caused my BSOD or crashed my mid game or so many errors.
*I knew that ProcODT/RTT fixed my error when I lower Tertiary specially that with SLC, tRDWR, tWRRD just to remove single error or no boot.
*I know my vSoC=1.1v caused single error so making it 1.05v error gone.

Until i have nothing to gain and stable in S/T, then I proceed to lower Primary with already stabilized S/T.
From that I need to add vSoC .025v for 1 step lower of tRCDRD in my setup to remove the 1 error in MemTest64 or add 0.01v Dram to stable my game without crashing in midgame, If Dram is not enough, sometimes my FPS is too low, adding .01v fixed it.

So my point is I'm fixing small errors at a time and I can point out where from those 33 timings the error comes from . These avoid random changing of timings and lost somewhere and go back to XMP.

Moreover: All stable S/T works in lower Primary. So finding errors shortened.



Fry178 said:


> well, my kit does 3600@ 16-19-19-19-36-58-312, voltage 1.35-1.36 and its enough for me.
> not gonna spend the extra time to get it to work at 3733, as the Gb x570 are a bit bitchy with ram,
> and all bios updates for ram "improvement" actually made stuff worse.
> 
> View attachment 167934


Wow nice info. So 3733 is sweet spot.

Oh very low tRFC.


----------



## Taraquin (Sep 8, 2020)

mxking035 said:


> Thank you for sharing. With this 3733 does your CPU temp increase for daily use?
> 
> Update: I just tried 2 sticks only and tRCDRD got below 21 like 16-19-19-36 but found out no benefits lowering it too much and just increasing Write but sacrifice Read, stability and voltage requirement. I tried this with my self limit of max vDram=1.37v and vSoC=1.1v ProcODT=53.3Ω and recommended tRP not lower than tRCDRD (I read somewhere):
> 
> ...


A few tips for further tweaking: tRP can often ble lower, on rev E 11-12 is often stable, on Hynix you must often go higher. Is your second kit Micron rev B? tFAW and tRRDS is in a 4:1 relation. Best possible setting is tFAW 16, tRRDS 4. I would try tRRDS 7 tFAW 28 if I were you. tRC should go a bit lower, tried 60?



Fry178 said:


> in general power down/gear down should be off (when ocing ram) on ryzen anyway.
> 
> @mxking035
> primary timings are much more important than S/T timings, at least when it comes to ryzen.
> you want to get to/close to 3600 (1800 mhz) and then lower timings as much as possible.


Actually, tRFC is the second most impactful timing in most gamingscenarios after CL. tFAW, tCWL (follows CL) and tRW also matters quite a bit. All these timings has much higher impact on games than tRCDRD/WR. In some apps and benches tRCDRD can matter quite a bit. tRP and tRAS has some impact, but not as much as tRFC.

If I make a list of most importat timings for games it would be: CL>tRFC>CR>GDM>tRC>tRP>tRAS>tFAW>tWR>tCWL>tRCDRD/WR. Not the truth by any means, but I think I'm close based on many hours of testing different subs, atleast on my system.
When running xmp you tRFC at 3200 tends to be 560. On a good B-die kit you can get down to 250, that can improve perf be over 10% alone in some games, even on Micron E you can get it down to 450 which gives you a few percent.


----------



## mxking035 (Sep 8, 2020)

Taraquin said:


> A few tips for further tweaking: tRP can often ble lower, on rev E 11-12 is often stable, on Hynix you must often go higher. Is your second kit Micron rev B? tFAW and tRRDS is in a 4:1 relation. Best possible setting is tFAW 16, tRRDS 4. I would try tRRDS 7 tFAW 28 if I were you. tRC should go a bit lower, tried 60?



My 2 sets of sticks, Micron E-Die and Samsung B-Die. total 4x8GB.
My testing for 2 sticks is the B-die which tRFC can lower until 555 only almost same as E-Die. I will try my E-Die on those settings after I'm done with B-Die.

*tRP, I check my history table i tried to make until 18 and didn't see difference. So I stick with tRP=tRCDRD, as 1usmus recommended. 

*Tried  tRRDS:tFAW; 
5:20 - 1st boot issue & no gain & BSOD
5:26 - 1st boot issue & no gain & BSOD
6:24 - game crashing/1 error/BSOD
until tFAW 32 is stable but no gain - only possibility of crashing so my best choice is 34/35 atleast near to 6xtRRDS (Recommended by 1usmus x6 to remove single error). So i forget about tFAW, see below photo by 1usmus his tFAW is high.

*tRC i can go until 60 but will cause huge errors, 62 no error but crashing my midgame. so I stick with 63/64.
Also considering recommendation range of tRFC=6xtRC until 8xtRC, still our tRFC is far from x8. so I better near with tRFC atleast as they are sycn and I didn't find it lowering if I cannot lower my tRFC.



Taraquin said:


> Actually, tRFC is the second most impactful timing in most gamingscenarios after CL. tFAW, tCWL (follows CL) and tRW also matters quite a bit. All these timings has much higher impact on games than tRCDRD/WR. In some apps and benches tRCDRD can matter quite a bit. tRP and tRAS has some impact, but not as much as tRFC.


Yes agreed. Thanks for advice. Tried also tCWL 14 and think its better.
As it doesn't necessary to be same with tCL on some board. Even in auto my tCWL is 14.
Previously with my 16-21-21-42-64-575 4-sticks optimized (maximum I can do) with my S/T i reach 8k in cinemabench with D15S Air Cooler.



Taraquin said:


> If I make a list of most important timings for games it would be: CL>tRFC>CR>GDM>tRC>tRP>tRAS>tFAW>tWR>tCWL>tRCDRD/WR. Not the truth by any means, but I think I'm close based on many hours of testing different subs, atleast on my system.


I agree, I see most gains in latency on those. Also I'm considering Read/Write/Copy and I gain from tertiary, ProcODT, RTT. Sometimes I have to higher time some related to "Write" and gain it on "Read". tRTP decrease my latency for by very little but loss my "Read" mb/s.

1usmus timings: My most basis of timings  and with his articles.




My cinemabench: Not necessary but to prove my claim.




For those not yet having R9 3900x: Here is for reference top score in Cinemabench in hwbot, please refer with the one using Air Cooler   only.





						Cinebench - R20 overclocking records @ HWBOT
					

Overclocking records




					hwbot.org


----------



## examen1996 (Sep 8, 2020)

mxking035 said:


> My 2 sets of sticks, Micron E-Die and Samsung B-Die. total 4x8GB.
> My testing for 2 sticks is the B-die which tRFC can lower until 555 only almost same as E-Die. I will try my E-Die on those settings after I'm done with B-Die.
> 
> *tRP, I check my history table i tried to make until 18 and didn't see difference. So I stick with tRP=tRCDRD, as 1usmus recommended.
> ...



Don't forget to also enjoy you pc ) , been in this rabbit hole before, be it ram oc or cpu oc (obviously not with this cpu ), don't get too worked up about some numbers that change on a bench .
Play or work or whatever, and when you will upgrade again, probably your gpu , then you cand continue to ram oc if you deem it necessary(bootleneck, but  I doubt pushing the ram further will do anything worthwhile).

In my opinion your results are already great


----------



## mxking035 (Sep 8, 2020)

examen1996 said:


> Don't forget to also enjoy you pc ) , been in this rabbit hole before, be it ram oc or cpu oc (obviously not with this cpu ), don't get too worked up about some numbers that change on a bench .
> Play or work or whatever, and when you will upgrade again, probably your gpu , then you cand continue to ram oc if you deem it necessary(bootleneck, but  I doubt pushing the ram further will do anything worthwhile).
> 
> In my opinion your results are already great


Actually enjoying it on rendering really fast.
This PC is for my hobbies like structural designing, modelling, rendering and gaming Dota 2: 200-236 FPS. Tuning CPU and Ram is my added relaxation time  and this post is my first time search about ram OC. My PC is just 2 months old and my first gaming PC.

Anyone can call it waste of time but I think it's better doing something than smoking outside or watching korean drama 
This PC match my previous enjoyment and more safety than (Fuel Injected Motorbike Tuning - using laptop and phone) drag.

Before buying this PC I don't have any idea about this things, I just told the builder that this is my budget for PC, I know only i3, i5, i7 and how big is the ram, I thought my laptop i7 is fast  which only I found it 2-cores .

Coming to GDM:
*examen1996 *I tested GDM off, I just did a quick test:
But before GDM off, first I have to higher my tRDWR:tWRRD from 6:1 to 8:3 to fix no boot.
*16-20-20-40 from 67.8ns to 67.2ns you are right  
*16-19-19-38 BSOD can't go to windows, I tried to make Command Rate Auto its trying to go 2T buts still BSOD.

Observed that when GDM off, CAD Bus has effects and results are not constant which needs to be clear.
60-20-20-40 - worked best in latency 67.2 to 67.5ns.
20-24-40-30 - latency little constant on 67.3/67.4ns
24-30-24-24 - 67.7 to 68ns









Fry178 said:


> well, my kit does 3600@ 16-19-19-19-36-58-312, voltage 1.35-1.36 and its enough for me.
> not gonna spend the extra time to get it to work at 3733, as the Gb x570 are a bit bitchy with ram,
> and all bios updates for ram "improvement" actually made stuff worse.
> 
> View attachment 167934


Just have a quick try on 3733: but i just notice I mistyped the tRFC 653, I'm trying 563
Tried with my (16-21-21-42 auto CADbus) settings as baseline but @1.38v and change tRFC which I mistyped.

First boot have some errors and crash the TM5 (basic 5-7min). So I add ProcODT and reduce vSoC: 48Ω and 1.075v at the same time to make sure no single error as it was just quick view while waiting for driver .And got TM5 pass. Not sure yet which from vSoC or ProcODT make it stable, maybe ProcODT.

I will try it next time optimized 3733 with lower tRFC, ower Primary and S/T until ProcODT 53.3Ω.

Pass TM5 with ProcODT=48 and vSoC=1.075v @1.38v. I'll try lower vDram if it works, I can assure only with Memtest64 and play game with it max set @1080p and no crashing at midgame, otherwise I have to add 0.1v vDram or ProcODT53.3 or vSoC1.1 or add little tRFC like 2-4.


----------



## Taraquin (Sep 9, 2020)

I have to raise volrage by 0.03V to stabilize if I disable GDM. 
ProcODT can stabilize if lowered, but voltage requirements might go up. 
You shouldn't need that high tRCD, 20, should be enough, tRAS should be tCL+tRCD or + 2 so 37 or 39 or one lower if you can run tRCD 20. You can probably liwer tRP quite a bit, only Hynux struggles with that value, Samsung and Micron trives at liw tRP, 15 or maybe lower should work. tRAS+tRP also sets lowest tRC-value which in turn sets tRFC.


----------



## mxking035 (Sep 9, 2020)

Taraquin said:


> I have to raise volrage by 0.03V to stabilize if I disable GDM.
> ProcODT can stabilize if lowered, but voltage requirements might go up.
> You shouldn't need that high tRCD, 20, should be enough, tRAS should be tCL+tRCD or + 2 so 37 or 39 or one lower if you can run tRCD 20. You can probably liwer tRP quite a bit, only Hynux struggles with that value, Samsung and Micron trives at liw tRP, 15 or maybe lower should work. tRAS+tRP also sets lowest tRC-value which in turn sets tRFC.


I agree, thanks for advice. My best setup is *16-20*-20-40 as of now, but I consider testing again with lower tRP and tRAS. Before, I tried until 16-36 and as i remember it just increased my "Copy/Write" but lost in "Read" with small latency gain 0.1-0.2ns. That's why I use flat type as "Read" is not decrease or balanced.

Yes higher ProcODT can lower your vDram requirements  .
As of now, I see GDM off work for me with higher tRDWR:tWRRD. So i skipped increasing vDram.

I think additional 0.03v is high with GDM off and sacrifice stability, even though it cuts 0.5ns but not constant when you try it many times in Aida64 from 67.2 to 67.7ns depends with CadBus combinations. Maybe due to CadBus timing and CadBus has no limit so it has really huge possible combinations.


----------



## Taraquin (Sep 9, 2020)

In certain games GDM off gave me 2-3% better perf.


----------



## examen1996 (Sep 9, 2020)

60-20-20-40 is the safest bet, as for the gdm, yes it does a lot


----------



## Mcg (Sep 9, 2020)

Hi Everyone, Just ran into trouble regarding same issue. 


I'm running Ryzen 5 3600X with Gigabyte B550 Aorus Elite. 
 2 Kits of 8*2 Total 32GB 3600mhz 
Corsair CMW16GX4M2B3600C18

I tried to figuer out what is the problem with running XMP profile with my system. 
With the First version of my bios the XMP wont run at all,then it got upgraded and it did work but sometimes the pc wont post/Go to BSOD. 
In the past week im trying to find what could work (Timing) but today all of sudden after messing with some Numbers the pc Just went off, when i boot it the thing goes to a black screen with the fans in the case going 100%. 
Only thing to make it stop is to kill the PSU. 
If i try to restart it goes to the same loop. 


The annoying problem is that im not able to CMOS with the 2Pins that are on the board so my only option for CMOS is getting the battery off (which sucks-located under the GPU with). 
Another problem showed up, now every command im trying to change with the Memory resolve the same kill switch to the system and forcrd to CMOS in order to return to normal. 
Tried only XMP on and got the same result, tried manual change only the speed to 3200 and it did aswell. 


Did my memory died? Lol  im not sure what went wrong, the numbers i wrote were the one DRAM calculator showed me. 

Current running on stock speed-2133mhz. 

This kit of memory fits only intel cpu's? 

Appricate the help, thanks.


----------



## mxking035 (Sep 9, 2020)

Mcg said:


> Hi Everyone, Just ran into trouble regarding same issue.
> 
> 
> I'm running Ryzen 5 3600X with Gigabyte B550 Aorus Elite.
> ...


Can you try Enable XMP and manually set Dram Voltage to 1.37v.

Can you share your screenshot of Ryzen Master info of ram?


----------



## Mcg (Sep 9, 2020)

Any change im making atm is causing me going into the black screen loop. 
Cant recall how many time i removed my GPU.


----------



## mxking035 (Sep 9, 2020)

Mcg said:


> Any change im making atm is causing me going into the black screen loop.
> Cant recall how many time i removed my GPU.


My ram also can't work with XMP below 1.37v with 4 sticks.



Taraquin said:


> I have to raise volrage by 0.03V to stabilize if I disable GDM.
> ProcODT can stabilize if lowered, but voltage requirements might go up.
> You shouldn't need that high tRCD, 20, should be enough, tRAS should be tCL+tRCD or + 2 so 37 or 39 or one lower if you can run tRCD 20. You can probably liwer tRP quite a bit, only Hynux struggles with that value, Samsung and Micron trives at liw tRP, 15 or maybe lower should work. tRAS+tRP also sets lowest tRC-value which in turn sets tRFC.


This my results lowering tRP and tRAS.
It decreases my "Read" increase "Write" and slows down my L3 Cache.


----------



## Mcg (Sep 9, 2020)

mxking035 said:


> Can you try Enable XMP and manually set Dram Voltage to 1.37v.
> 
> Can you share your screenshot of Ryzen Master info of ram?










BTW -that huge black screen loop was becouse of the damn MotherBoard. I downgraded to a lower version and now im able to set manul speeds and settings (At the time im at 3200mhz and its stable for now-Xmp enabled would give me BSOD or the 3 crash loop.

Thank you for your time and help my friend.


----------



## mxking035 (Sep 10, 2020)

Mcg said:


> View attachment 168200
> View attachment 168201
> 
> BTW -that huge black screen loop was becouse of the damn MotherBoard. I downgraded to a lower version and now im able to set manul speeds and settings (At the time im at 3200mhz and its stable for now-Xmp enabled would give me BSOD or the 3 crash loop.
> ...


I see your tWRRD is 1, it will not work with 4 sticks of that ram in my case. Should atleast 3. And your ProcODT is high, 43 or 48 is fine. With vSoC=1. 05. vDram=1.37v.

This is my XMP. Its very loose timing, should work for you. Your board setting tWRRD auto for 2 sticks.

My board is just click button for CMOS. Lucky for me. I think better you find solution first to work with your CMOS easily before tightening anything in ram. I guess its just a jumper. You can DIY something. 






Mcg said:


> I'm running Ryzen 5 3600X with Gigabyte B550 Aorus Elite.
> 2 Kits of 8*2 Total 32GB 3600mhz
> Corsair CMW16GX4M2B3600C18


Correction, your ram is not CMW16GX4M2B3600C18, It's CMW16GX4M2D3600C18, so same ours only its B-die same on my half set.


----------



## Taraquin (Sep 10, 2020)

I would evaluate using a game, shadow of the tomb raider for instance. Aida gives clues but it doesn't always show real world performance. I have seen several times that my aida-score got slughtly worse, but in games performance was higher


----------



## mxking035 (Sep 10, 2020)

Taraquin said:


> I would evaluate using a game, shadow of the tomb raider for instance. Aida gives clues but it doesn't always show real world performance. I have seen several times that my aida-score got slughtly worse, but in games performance was higher


I see, I check with that sometime.



examen1996 said:


> 60-20-20-40 is the safest bet, as for the gdm, yes it does a lot


What is you VDDP and VDDG for 3733? I notice auto is high around VDDG=1.15v. Can you share your 3733 ryzen master?


----------



## mxking035 (Sep 11, 2020)

mxking035 said:


> I see, I check with that sometime.
> 
> 
> What is you VDDP and VDDG for 3733? I notice auto is high around VDDG=1.15v. Can you share your 3733 ryzen master?



I notice that the E-Die is doing well than B-Die with the same model in 3733, requires smaller VDDP and VDDG than my B-Die.


----------



## karkass (Sep 24, 2020)

Hello guys, I returned to the rabbit hole of attempts at ram overclock. I own two kits of CMK16GX4M2D3600C18 (2x 2x8). I have an x570 Aorus Elite rev 1.0 on F30 Bios version + 3800x on stock speeds. Please help me find some good known values. I am sick of errors and bsods. If I can't get stable c16 I will settle with c18. But at this moment nothing seems to be stable. Before I've used xmp values but with xmp disabled, and seemed ok.
Anyways, any help would be appreciated.


----------



## mxking035 (Sep 25, 2020)

karkass said:


> Hello guys, I returned to the rabbit hole of attempts at ram overclock. I own two kits of CMK16GX4M2D3600C18 (2x 2x8). I have an x570 Aorus Elite rev 1.0 on F30 Bios version + 3800x on stock speeds. Please help me find some good known values. I am sick of errors and bsods. If I can't get stable c16 I will settle with c18. But at this moment nothing seems to be stable. Before I've used xmp values but with xmp disabled, and seemed ok.
> Anyways, any help would be appreciated.


can you check if those are Micron E-Die or Samsung B-Die(downbinned)?
can you show your zentimings? https://zentimings.protonrom.com/


----------



## karkass (Sep 25, 2020)

mxking035 said:


> can you check if those are Micron E-Die or Samsung B-Die(downbinned)?
> can you show your zentimings? https://zentimings.protonrom.com/


First of all I want to thank you for your response. The zen timings I will show you are just the values of the xmp.
Both my kits are the same, and are micron e die. In that .rar is the taiphoon html. The closest I've reached was with one of your setups, the 16.21.21.21.42 if I am not mistaken. I've even passed the windows memtest, but then I've started to bsod.


----------



## mxking035 (Sep 25, 2020)

karkass said:


> First of all I want to thank you for your response. The zen timings I will show you are just the values of the xmp.
> Both my kits are the same, and are micron e die. In that .rar is the taiphoon html. The closest I've reached was with one of your setups, the 16.21.21.21.42 if I am not mistaken. I've even passed the windows memtest, but then I've started to bsod.


Problem with this ram and with 4 sticks tRCDRD cant go lower in my case.
But probably you can try with 3666 16-21-21-42 1.38/1.39v 4 sticks. But 2 sticks works until 3733 on me.

In this ram also cause me BSOD if I try higher vDram so better 1.37-1.38v.

You can also try below settings for 4 sticks as initial. vsoc=1.05v. vDram=
37v. If it works you can go lower 16-20-20-40 same at 1.37v same vSoC.




Or you can post your settings which make you BSOD and use 1usmus v3 TM5 to check your timings.
 Maybe some experts here can help with error code.I'm also newbie and still exploring.


----------



## karkass (Sep 25, 2020)

Please tell me what you used for vddp/vddg, ram voltage. Things that could make 4 sticks misbehave.
In the screenshot is what I've used. Things went to shit badly when putting the recommended values which were different from mine. What RTTs should I use - 7/3/1, 7/3/5? Cad bus strength 43, 48?


----------



## mxking035 (Sep 25, 2020)

karkass said:


> Please tell me what you used for vddp/vddg, ram voltage. Things that could make 4 sticks misbehave.
> In the screenshot is what I've used. Things went to shit badly when putting the recommended values which were different from mine. What RTTs should I use - 7/3/1, 7/3/5? Cad bus strength 43, 48?


for 3600 MT/s is vddp=0.900 and vddg=0.950
RTT: 7/3/5
procODT=43.6, but lower is better same as vSOC. maybe can work with 36.9/40
Cadbuss: 24-20-24-24/24-20-20-24

use DRAM=1.37v

EDIT: if does not work otherwise vddp=.95 vddg=1.00v soc=1.05v


----------



## karkass (Sep 25, 2020)

I have default soc - 1.1. Is this ok? Should I lower it to 1.05? vSOC is the same thing?


----------



## mxking035 (Sep 25, 2020)

karkass said:


> I have default soc - 1.1. Is this ok? Should I lower it to 1.05? vSOC is the same thing?


Soc=1.05v is better, its only loose timings. Yes same thing.


----------



## karkass (Sep 26, 2020)

I've tried your settings to the last, but I got a plethora of bsods, irql less or not equal, pfn list and others. And it seems that memory training fails after cold boot. What do you suspect it might be the cause? I am getting sick of it .


----------



## mxking035 (Sep 26, 2020)

karkass said:


> I've tried your settings to the last, but I got a plethora of bsods, irql less or not equal, pfn list and others. And it seems that memory training fails after cold boot. What do you suspect it might be the cause? I am getting sick of it .


Did you overclock your CPU? Maybe your CPU voltage is too low.
I'm resetting CMOS everytime I encounter training problem and I'm saving all my OC profile.

Can you let your Ram vsoc, vddg, vddp, tRC and tRFC in AUTO and see.
Did you try all ram voltage from 1.37-1.4?

Sorry I'm not too experience, but hope somebody jump in and advice.

EDIT: What is your XMP dram voltage?


----------



## karkass (Sep 26, 2020)

I don't have no form of CPU overclock. SOC and vSOC are both on normal(not auto). I tried with ram voltages up to 1.4. 
God this is dreadful. Why can't things be intel level of simplicity when it comes to ram  ?


----------



## mxking035 (Sep 26, 2020)

karkass said:


> I don't have no form of CPU overclock. SOC and vSOC are both on normal(not auto). I tried with ram voltages up to 1.4.
> God this is dreadful. Why can't things be intel level of simplicity when it comes to ram  ?


  
I'm having also same as your problem to run 4 sticks.
I remember that first time my problem is selecting Command Rate to 1T, so I let it Auto and went well, still it will come to 1T.

Are you selecting Command Rate 1T? Let it Auto. Don't manually select to 1T.

EDIT: My first overclock change is Cmd2T=Auto and 16-21-21-42 @ 1.38v.


----------



## examen1996 (Oct 2, 2020)

I see the fun here never stopped  had a delightful time getting up to speed with the effort you put here @mxking035 .
Really curios about what setting you will keep in the end .


----------



## mxking035 (Oct 2, 2020)

examen1996 said:


> I see the fun here never stopped  had a delightful time getting up to speed with the effort you put here @mxking035 .
> Really curios about what setting you will keep in the end .



This is my last setting:




But I changed plan and go for 64gb, I sold my 4 sticks and bought G.Skill 2x16gb Hynix DJR in the same price. Still saving for next set of 2x16gb.

Pretty decent for the price. 








						G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB DDR4 3600 RAM Memory - Newegg.com
					

Buy G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C16D-32GVKC with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				




Using 3733mhz ram=1.37v, *SOC=1.05v*, procODT=36.9. And can stable GDM off easily buy just adding tRP +1.


----------



## examen1996 (Oct 2, 2020)

mxking035 said:


> This is my last setting:
> View attachment 170467
> 
> But I changed plan and go for 64gb, I sold my 4 sticks and bought G.Skill 2x16gb Hynix DJR in the same price. Still saving for next set of 2x16gb.
> ...


Damn , even better ) 
Nice !


----------



## mxking035 (Oct 2, 2020)

examen1996 said:


> Damn , even better )
> Nice !


This is GDM Off I'm using when gaming.




It's good upgrade, if you plan for LPX 4x8gb better this ram 2x16gb with same price.


----------



## examen1996 (Oct 2, 2020)

mxking035 said:


> This is GDM Off I'm using when gaming.
> View attachment 170481
> 
> It's good upgrade, if you plan for LPX 4x8gb better this ram 2x16gb with same price.


Curreny Indont think there will be any updates in ram as I am tempted to get one a decent gpu (tried a 5700 non xt hated the drivers got back on the rx 580)  but if i will upgrade in the future , i know who to ask


----------



## karkass (Oct 10, 2020)

@examen1996 , could you please help me fix my cold boot issues? I can't understand how my ram oc is stable, but memory training always fails after coldboot.


----------



## examen1996 (Oct 11, 2020)

karkass said:


> @examen1996 , could you please help me fix my cold boot issues? I can't understand how my ram oc is stable, but memory training always fails after coldboot.




What setup do you have and what settings are you using for your ram


----------



## karkass (Oct 11, 2020)

karkass said:


> Please tell me what you used for vddp/vddg, ram voltage. Things that could make 4 sticks misbehave.
> In the screenshot is what I've used. Things went to shit badly when putting the recommended values which were different from mine. What RTTs should I use - 7/3/1, 7/3/5? Cad bus strength 43, 48?


This settings, 1.38 ram voltage. I have aorus x570 on latest bios. Please also note that I have two kits of 2x8 lpx 18-22-22-22-42 (32 gb total).


----------



## examen1996 (Oct 11, 2020)

I suspect you may have 2 sets of 2 diffrent revisions, that can be easily confirmed by using typhoon burner and exporting the ram info for the 4 sticks. Otherwise from a first glance the only settings I would change is the ttrdl and trrds so that they match what was recommended by the calculator. Also, make sure you dont use all the values provided by the calculator, set all the values that i included in the green, and those with red are to be left alone , trfc should work at 570. Also, micron e die can get unstable at unnecesairly high voltage, i always run mine at 1.37 , 4 sticks should be trickyker but the voltage should be the same. Keep me updated


----------



## mxking035 (Oct 11, 2020)

karkass said:


> This settings, 1.38 ram voltage. I have aorus x570 on latest bios. Please also note that I have two kits of 2x8 lpx 18-22-22-22-42 (32 gb total).


Which chipset driver you are using? from Mobo or AMD?.
Try to update your chipset driver from AMD website.

As *Fry178 *mention in earlier post, GB x570 is a bit.... 
Some post said Enabling "Power loading" in bios solved their cold boot issues.
Some said updating chipset driver from AMD Wesbite solved as well.


----------



## karkass (Oct 17, 2020)

examen1996 said:


> I suspect you may have 2 sets of 2 diffrent revisions, that can be easily confirmed by using typhoon burner and exporting the ram info for the 4 sticks. Otherwise from a first glance the only settings I would change is the ttrdl and trrds so that they match what was recommended by the calculator. Also, make sure you dont use all the values provided by the calculator, set all the values that i included in the green, and those with red are to be left alone , trfc should work at 570. Also, micron e die can get unstable at unnecesairly high voltage, i always run mine at 1.37 , 4 sticks should be trickyker but the voltage should be the same. Keep me updated
> 
> View attachment 171454


No luck. Same old training failure at cold boot.


mxking035 said:


> Which chipset driver you are using? from Mobo or AMD?.
> Try to update your chipset driver from AMD website.
> 
> As *Fry178 *mention in earlier post, GB x570 is a bit....
> ...


What difference would the chipset drivers make as I have training issues at post? AMD ones for the record... As for the power loading setting, no difference with or w/o it...


----------

