# Help me improve my network



## Nordic (Nov 23, 2012)

My network speeds are 25mbit down with 1mbit up. I am using the provide cable companies modem which is a some Motorola docis 3 modem with a netgear 3700. I always have about 5 computers on the network at a time and sometime up to 10+ devices.

When I moved here I added 2 computers to the network. They were using some decreped brandless router from the cable company. I could litterally not do anything on the internet without it being slow. I replaced the previous router with my netgear 3700 which really helped make hulu/youtube not buffer every 3 seconds and gaming. When everyone is actively using the internet it gets slow, for obvious reasons. Gaming wise I will sometimes have an excessive ping, like 300-500 more than I usually do. It makes me lag pretty bad. The router is in the opposite side of the house in the floor above me so I could not route an Ethernet cable easily to myself even if I was not renting.

Is my router not enough?
Do I not have enough bandwidth?
Would a powerline adapter to myself help?
Can I prioritize myself in the network with QOS or something else?
DDwrt?

I have tried using QOS to throttle the certain people but it does not work.


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## Hybrid_theory (Nov 26, 2012)

When i was sharing a house with 5 people, it could get quite slow. I determined this to be because we were all using wireless. If you have a few devices doing decent traffic, it will cause delay as wireless is built on collision avoidance, and uses time delays and such to avoid collisions of packets. Powerline ethernet would get around this.

With that said, if you can get dd-wrt on your router, it has bandwidth monitoring tools so you can see what the actual live usage of the router is and troubleshoot further.

You could implement QoS, but if they're all paying for the internet, thats kind of a dick move. 

Its possible that a higher quality router might help. ie one that advertises multiple simultaneous connections at once kinda thing. But id try dd-wrt first and see if you're bandwith use is okay.


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## Athlon2K15 (Nov 26, 2012)

Your router is plenty,are you using the 5ghz band or the 2.4? Is everyone using wireless N or are some still on G? mixing clients between two wireless standards slows the whole thing down. If I was you I would make sure everyone is using N and set the router to only broadcast a 802.11n signal,put all media devices on the 5ghz band and PCs on the 2.4


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## Nordic (Nov 26, 2012)

The internet is payed for by my roommate and and I. I would not throttle him. Because he is a nice guy he wants lets the neighbors use it too. Since I am the only geek of the house I get control of the network. I know at times some of the neighbors are downloading torrents also, which is partially why I want to throttle them. DD-wrt would help with the network monitoring.

I was pretty sure my router was enough. As far as I know everyone is useing 2.4ghz. In my house there is no dualband capable wireless adapters. I don't know about the neighbors though. My roomate and I are using wireless N but I do not know about the neighbors.


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## Hybrid_theory (Nov 27, 2012)

james888 said:


> The internet is payed for by my roommate and and I. I would not throttle him. Because he is a nice guy he wants lets all the neighbors use it too. Since I am the only geek of the house I get control of the network. I know at times some of the neighbors are downloading torrents also, which is partially why I want to throttle them. DD-wrt would help with the network monitoring.
> 
> I was pretty sure my router was enough. As far as I know everyone is useing 2.4ghz. In my house there is no dualband capable wireless adapters. I don't know about the neighbors though. My roomate and I are using wireless N but I do not know about the neighbors.



So your router would show if its running mixed N+G or just N. If not, dd-wrt definitely does. It might also show what standard people connect with, but not sure.


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 28, 2012)

Today I finally finished my custom router build. I have a pentium 4 machine (soon to be VIA ITX combo) fitted with onboard NIC and a PCI NIC. The OS is only 75MB in size and it is a DHCP server and firewall built into one. The OS is called IPfire and along with a WAP54G Access Point, it is the fastest I have ever seen my internet without plugging straight into the modem.

HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!


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## Nordic (Nov 28, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> Today I finally finished my custom router build. I have a pentium 4 machine (soon to be VIA ITX combo) fitted with onboard NIC and a PCI NIC. The OS is only 75MB in size and it is a DHCP server and firewall built into one. The OS is called IPfire and along with a WAP54G Access Point, it is the fastest I have ever seen my internet without plugging straight into the modem.
> 
> HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!



Sounds cool. I may have to do that one day. That pent 4 or any via is faster than anything you will find in a router. My netgear has a really fast 600mhz... which is fast for a router.

Edit: I looked it up. Ip fire looks pretty cool.


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## Nordic (Dec 26, 2012)

I noticed something weird yesterday. My internet was being insanly slow, as in taking more than 3 seconds to load a simple web page such as this one. It had been awhile since I reset the router so I figered that might fix the problem. I reset the modem and router. I also noticed at the time that the modem was hot to the touch. I went back to the computer and could not connect to the internet and could not. I tried reseting multiple times, checked with the isp for outages, and general windows diagnostics. I spent an hour and could not get it to work. So I then instead did some laundry. The next mourning I reset the modem and router again, now that it was cool, and it worked.

Coincidence? I know heat and silicon don't go together very well. There is not much I can do to disapate heat better from the modem either.


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## Aquinus (Dec 26, 2012)

I would throttle everyone else except you and your roommate considering you two are the one's paying for it. Maybe it will be incentive for your neighbors to get their own if they don't get to use all of your bandwidth. If you're router supports and runs well with DD-WRT, I would give that a try and see if your neighbors really are the ones slowing it down.


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## Nordic (Dec 26, 2012)

My router does actually not accept dd-wrt. Mine is the version 3 which is not supported do to an architecture change.


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## Aquinus (Dec 26, 2012)

Are you sure that the network itself is slow? I know that occasionally the DNS servers I use will take a little longer than normal to resolve a host name. Are you testing based on pages loading or have you tried using something else?

Next time this happens just try pinging a known IP such as 8.8.8.8 or 8.8.4.4 (Google DNS servers.)

If the response times are high, maybe tracert in the command prompt could shed some light on the problem. (I'm assuming you're using some version of Windows.)


> ping 8.8.8.8
> tracert 8.8.8.8


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## Frick (Dec 26, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> Today I finally finished my custom router build. I have a pentium 4 machine (soon to be VIA ITX combo) fitted with onboard NIC and a PCI NIC. The OS is only 75MB in size and it is a DHCP server and firewall built into one. The OS is called IPfire and along with a WAP54G Access Point, it is the fastest I have ever seen my internet without plugging straight into the modem.
> 
> HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!



I did that with an old Pentium 2 system and it was slow as *insert curse word*. Did it with Freesco I think it was, or possibly Smoothwall.


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## Aquinus (Dec 26, 2012)

Frick said:


> I did that with an old Pentium 2 system and it was slow as *insert curse word*. Did it with Freesco I think it was, or possibly Smoothwall.



A P4 has a little more power than a P2 and supports more and faster memory. 

Either way gateways don't need a whole lot of power. I bet the P2 could handle better if it was a bare *nix install but that doesn't give you the ease-of-use that some of these other solutions offer unless you're one of those people who consider updating DHCP, BIND, and networking through the CLI easy.


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## Wrigleyvillain (Dec 26, 2012)

Letting "all the neighbors" use your connection may be nice and all but it is really a bad idea even if it did not affect your bandwidth which it obviously is. Somebody's second cousin visiting town downloads something like cp and the Secret Service kicks down _your_ door.


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## Aquinus (Dec 26, 2012)

Wrigleyvillain said:


> Letting "all the neighbors" use your connection may be nice and all but it is really a bad idea even if it did not affect your bandwidth which it obviously is. Somebody's second cousin visiting town downloads something like cp and the Secret Service kicks down your door.*



+1: This too, you're liable for what they do on your network. It's also a gaping security hole IMHO.

*: Updated to reflect edited post.


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## Frick (Dec 26, 2012)

Aquinus said:


> A P4 has a little more power than a P2 and supports more and faster memory.
> 
> Either way gateways don't need a whole lot of power. I bet the P2 could handle better if it was a bare *nix install but that doesn't give you the ease-of-use that some of these other solutions offer unless you're one of those people who consider updating DHCP, BIND, and networking through the CLI easy.



Especially Freesco is very VERY light and can be run from a floppy afaik. The point is while the concept is nice for most users it's just a waste of electricity. It's fun to do, but from a practical standpoint few people have any use for it. IMO.


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## Nordic (Dec 27, 2012)

Aquinus said:


> Are you sure that the network itself is slow? I know that occasionally the DNS servers I use will take a little longer than normal to resolve a host name. Are you testing based on pages loading or have you tried using something else?
> 
> Next time this happens just try pinging a known IP such as 8.8.8.8 or 8.8.4.4 (Google DNS servers.)
> 
> If the response times are high, maybe tracert in the command prompt could shed some light on the problem. (I'm assuming you're using some version of Windows.)


I have tried open dns and google dns actually. Open dns is faster for me according to namebench.

Next time it does get real slow I will do a tracert.





Wrigleyvillain said:


> Letting "all the neighbors" use your connection may be nice and all but it is really a bad idea even if it did not affect your bandwidth which it obviously is. Somebody's second cousin visiting town downloads something like cp and the Secret Service kicks down _your_ door.



Personally, I would kick them in a heartbeat. But... they are staying on none the less.


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## Nordic (Dec 28, 2012)

When my network seems fast.


Spoiler



Microsoft Windows [Version 6.2.9200]
(c) 2012 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Windows\System32>tracert 8.8.4.4

Tracing route to google-public-dns-b.google.com [8.8.4.4]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  READYSHARE [192.168.1.1]
  2    34 ms    30 ms    19 ms  CPE-76-178-186-1.natnow.res.rr.com [76.178.186.1
]
  3    11 ms    10 ms    11 ms  ge1-1-5.cralid-rtr1.cralid-rtr1.natnow.rr.com [6
5.28.217.61]
  4    19 ms    17 ms    19 ms  107.14.16.100
  5    39 ms    40 ms    38 ms  ae-2.cr0.sjc10.tbone.rr.com [66.109.9.44]
  6    39 ms    37 ms    66 ms  ae-0-0.pr0.sjc10.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.141]
  7    91 ms    39 ms    49 ms  74.125.48.197
  8    39 ms    37 ms    51 ms  64.233.175.223
  9    37 ms    38 ms    53 ms  google-public-dns-b.google.com [8.8.4.4]

Trace complete.

C:\Windows\System32>



When being slow.


Spoiler



Microsoft Windows [Version 6.2.9200]
(c) 2012 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Windows\System32>tracert 8.8.4.4

Tracing route to google-public-dns-b.google.com [8.8.4.4]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     3 ms     2 ms    <1 ms  READYSHARE [192.168.1.1]
  2    32 ms    31 ms    36 ms  CPE-76-178-186-1.natnow.res.rr.com [76.178.186.1
]
  3    15 ms    12 ms    11 ms  ge1-1-5.cralid-rtr1.cralid-rtr1.natnow.rr.com [6
5.28.217.61]
  4    19 ms    18 ms    19 ms  107.14.16.100
  5    36 ms    35 ms    35 ms  ae-2.cr0.sjc10.tbone.rr.com [66.109.9.44]
  6    37 ms    35 ms    39 ms  ae-0-0.pr0.sjc10.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.141]
  7    39 ms    36 ms    62 ms  74.125.48.197
  8    37 ms    38 ms    36 ms  64.233.175.223
  9    38 ms    36 ms    37 ms  google-public-dns-b.google.com [8.8.4.4]

Trace complete.

C:\Windows\System32>



Both tracert were done on my laptop over wireless from the exact same place.


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## Aquinus (Dec 28, 2012)

james888 said:


> When my network seems fast.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Are you sure it's not just the site you're connecting to? It's not your connection in general, that's for sure. If all your bandwidth was being eaten up you would see those number be higher on the second run. Is it only HTTP traffic that goes slow?

You may want to grab Wireshark to see how many wireless packets are flying across your network when it happens. You might be able to tell if someone on the wireless is doing it, but I'm not sure if that is the case.

You might want to tell your roommate that people are downloading illegal content on your internet and that you're liable for it. As much of a "nice person" he wants to be, it's not a good idea and you might find that the only way to find out if it's the other people on the network is to kick them off it and see if it still happens.

You may be able to argue with him that you're paying for half the internet but your neighbors are using 90% of it, so maybe he should be paying 90% of the bill to cover your neighbor's usage? Just because he pays half doesn't mean he should have all the say in how it is used and be able to give away your portion of the connection. The internet should work when you need it to because you're paying for it. Your neighbors are not.

Just out of curiosity, would you happen to be going to college or be living near a college campus?


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## Jetster (Dec 28, 2012)

Your hardware is fine. DD-WRT may help and may be support for v3 soon. QoS will not help you. If you can hard wire yourself it would help you


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## Nordic (Feb 25, 2013)

Someone sent me a steam message after I went to bed last night. I came back to find it with this. I, or maybe just steam, losing a connection A LOT. Usually just for a minute it seems, except once which was  for 8 minutes. Is this typical of steam or am I really losing internet at about every once or more per hour? Seemed odd so I figured I would ask.

Edit: I was gaming last night and it happened to me. First time I actually have seen this happen. Totally lost internet on the computer so it is not steam.

Sunday, February 24, 2013
12:47 AM - Your state is set to Offline.
12:47 AM - Connected again and rejoined chat.
1:38 AM - Your state is set to Offline.
1:38 AM - Connected again and rejoined chat.
3:24 AM - Your state is set to Offline.
3:25 AM - Connected again and rejoined chat.
5:26 AM - Your state is set to Offline.
5:27 AM - Connected again and rejoined chat.
6:25 AM - Your state is set to Offline.
6:26 AM - Connected again and rejoined chat.
6:51 AM - Your state is set to Offline.
6:51 AM - Connected again and rejoined chat.
7:52 AM - Your state is set to Offline.
7:54 AM - Connected again and rejoined chat.
9:11 AM - Your state is set to Offline.
9:12 AM - Connected again and rejoined chat.
9:24 AM - Your state is set to Offline.
9:25 AM - Connected again and rejoined chat.
2:54 PM - Your state is set to Offline.
2:54 PM - Connected again and rejoined chat.
3:30 PM - Your state is set to Offline.
3:30 PM - Connected again and rejoined chat.
3:32 PM - Your state is set to Offline.
3:33 PM - Connected again and rejoined chat.
*4:06 PM - Your state is set to Offline.
4:14 PM - Connected again and rejoined chat.*
5:25 PM - Your state is set to Offline.
5:25 PM - Connected again and rejoined chat.
5:32 PM - Your state is set to Offline.
5:33 PM - Connected again and rejoined chat.


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## remixedcat (Feb 25, 2013)

and why wouldn't QoS help? Some router might not have a very good QoS control though and not be able to define exact clients like mine can. 

Also limit the BW on the guest networks if your router has it to 802.11b speeds and see if that helps as well... I do that as well as having QoS.

http://www.paessler.com has something called PRTG that can do really good monitoring as well.


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## Nordic (Feb 25, 2013)

remixedcat said:


> and why wouldn't QoS help? Some router might not have a very good QoS control though and not be able to define exact clients like mine can.
> 
> Also limit the BW on the guest networks if your router has it to 802.11b speeds and see if that helps as well... I do that as well as having QoS.
> 
> http://www.paessler.com has something called PRTG that can do really good monitoring as well.



I can define exact clients. It just tells me it is already a rule... but its not. The netgear 3700 is full featured.

The PRTG thing. I found that, installed in my computer. Then I think I realized I had to have it installed on everyones computer but I can't do that. I just have access to my computers and the router.


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## remixedcat (Feb 25, 2013)

Can you limit the speed of the guest networks?


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 25, 2013)

Frick said:


> I did that with an old Pentium 2 system and it was slow as *insert curse word*. Did it with Freesco I think it was, or possibly Smoothwall.



Yea P2 is NOT recommended for a router. P4 or socket athlon 3200+ with atleast 1GB DDR


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## Nordic (Feb 25, 2013)

remixedcat said:


> Can you limit the speed of the guest networks?



Apparently not. 99% featured.

I am actually pretty concerned with that internet going out like I mentioned above. Its not steam but really my internet going out. I need to wait for it to happen again to see if it not just my desktop.


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## remixedcat (Feb 26, 2013)

Please post screenshots of the options you have for guest network controls. 

Here's mine:






I can set mine even lower then that.


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## Nordic (Feb 26, 2013)

Sure. If you want.
Everyone right now is on the same network right now. It now is just my house and the neighbors next door. All the same problems occur. I am not sure how I would wing them off onto the guest network.


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## v12dock (Feb 26, 2013)

james888 said:


> My router does actually not accept dd-wrt. Mine is the version 3 which is not supported do to an architecture change.



They are lying to you.

http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewto...start=15&sid=211a8c00f00f4986d2f8b445ec542d11

http://www.myopenrouter.com/downloa...-for-NETGEAR-WNDR3700v3-Wireless-Router-.CHK/

Also http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=723254#723254


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## remixedcat (Feb 26, 2013)

Not even any in the "advanced settings" or anything? 

I'm sure that you can flah it and put DDWRT on there and I'm sure it would have that option like my Amped does.


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## Nordic (Feb 26, 2013)

v12dock said:


> They are lying to you.
> 
> http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewto...start=15&sid=211a8c00f00f4986d2f8b445ec542d11
> 
> ...


Sounds problematic and is only an alpha build by what I just read.



remixedcat said:


> Not even any in the "advanced settings" or anything?
> 
> I'm sure that you can flah it and put DDWRT on there and I'm sure it would have that option like my Amped does.


Those are the advance settings.


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## Nordic (Mar 23, 2013)

Maybe the last time I posted a tracert while it was being slow was for another reason. Anyways, here it is.


Spoiler



Microsoft Windows [Version 6.2.9200]
(c) 2012 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Windows\system32>tracert 8.8.8.8

Tracing route to google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms     1 ms    <1 ms  READYSHARE [192.168.1.1]
  2   329 ms   214 ms   184 ms  CPE-76-178-186-1.natnow.res.rr.com [76.178.186.1
]
  3   139 ms   185 ms   191 ms  ge1-1-5.cralid-rtr1.cralid-rtr1.natnow.rr.com [6
5.28.217.61]
  4   441 ms   285 ms   266 ms  107.14.16.100
  5   221 ms   173 ms   182 ms  ae-2.cr0.sjc10.tbone.rr.com [66.109.9.44]
  6   168 ms   174 ms   186 ms  ae-0-0.pr0.sjc10.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.141]
  7   287 ms   269 ms   283 ms  74.125.48.197
  8   162 ms   190 ms   180 ms  209.85.249.5
  9   134 ms    72 ms   153 ms  209.85.250.63
 10   206 ms   189 ms   215 ms  72.14.232.63
 11   208 ms   224 ms   227 ms  72.14.233.200
 12   193 ms   263 ms   269 ms  216.239.48.167
 13     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 14   298 ms   205 ms   185 ms  google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]

Trace complete.

C:\Windows\system32>



I did talk to my neighbors about downloading, and they don't use at much bandwidth as I though. They do sometimes but not often. I found the culprit though. The dvr is downloading videos.


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## Aquinus (Mar 23, 2013)

james888 said:


> CPE-76-178-186-1.natnow.res.rr.com [76.178.186.1
> ]



The slowdown is between your modem and their first router. TWC has to fix this, there isn't much you're going to do on your end other than try to milk free internet out of it.

Do you have a Motorola surfboard modem? If you do could we get a gander of your signal strengths and SNRs? You can get there at http://192.168.100.1 regardless of your network.

I have an older one but it should look something like this:




...and before any of you say anything about my modem being over 10 years old, I just have to say this:


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## Nordic (Mar 23, 2013)

Image wont show... so http://www.techpowerup.org/uploaded.php?file=130323/modem.png

I do know for a fact that at the time that my internet was slow the dvr was downloading videos. It is not exactly a dvr. It connects to the internet and downloads videos but does not record in real time. At the time I took this screen shot my internet is not being slow. It is a motorola surfboard docsis 3 or something. I don't want to go upstairs and look.


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## Aquinus (Mar 23, 2013)

james888 said:


> http://www.techpowerup.org/uploaded.php?file=130323/modem.png
> Image wont show... so http://www.techpowerup.org/uploaded.php?file=130323/modem.png
> 
> 
> ...



Your SNRs and upstream power level look okay but your down-stream power levels are a little high. DOCSIS 3.0 likes between 8dBmV and -8dBmV which is what you're using because 2.0 doesn't support 4 downstream channels. I think TWC is too loud and you need to reduce it. If you have a Coax splitter, try adding one because that alone will shave something like 3dBmV off of it just to reduce the power level.

Ideally downstream power level should be 0dBmV, but variation is expected in this.

The high power level could also indicate a problem with your connection to the street (where it goes from Coax to fiber.) There may be too many people connected to that one device. Either way, let the advanced tech figure it out if the splitter doesn't work.

Also, here is the picture. I mucked with the URL a bit to make it work:


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## Nordic (Mar 26, 2013)

One of my room mates friends works for twc and is going to come over and take a look at whats going on. He is over every other week or so, and is just easier than calling twc.

Also, it is happening right now again. Just ran this too. Download is supposed to be much much higher. Ping should be about 40. Ya... jitter...


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## Aquinus (Mar 26, 2013)

james888 said:


> One of my room mates friends works for twc and is going to come over and take a look at whats going on. He is over every other week or so, and is just easier than calling twc.
> 
> Also, it is happening right now again. Just ran this too. Download is supposed to be much much higher. Ping should be about 40. Ya... jitter...
> http://i.imgur.com/cro0XPe.png



You're describing the behavior when TWC's head node in the area was overloaded. Prepare to squeeze them for free internet.


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## Nordic (Mar 26, 2013)

This happens quite often sometimes. Tonight, I have been kinda bored being unable to stream videos or play games. Need to get myself a good book.

Just so I fully understand. A head node I am guessing is a central location where my street/neighborhood connects to twc. I live like a third of a mile from the twc main location where the whole town connects. It is in quite the large neighborhood.

How would I pressure them for free internet? Call and complain.


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## Aquinus (Mar 26, 2013)

james888 said:


> This happens quite often sometimes. Tonight, I have been kinda bored being unable to stream videos or play games. Need to get myself a good book.
> 
> Just so I fully understand. A head node I am guessing is a central location where my street/neighborhood connects to twc. I live like a third of a mile from the twc main location where the whole town connects. It is in quite the large neighborhood.
> 
> How would I pressure them for free internet?



The head node is more like what all of the nodes throughout your town (or part of town depending on the size,) or a router that has several towns connected to it (keep in mind that an ISP is basically like a giant network, and there are routers between any 2 or more points). What happens is that one of these routers between you and TWC's gateway is slowing down. This is almost always attributed to too much load somewhere on their network, it doesn't even need to be from your part of town, but someone (some people,) you share internet are using more than TWC has. They will want to send a tech out to confirm it, tell them your friend works for TWC and he checked it out and if he can't do anything that you want an advanced tech to test it out.



james888 said:


> How would I pressure them for free internet? Call and complain.



Call and complain. Do it every month until it is fixed so you should always have one of two things:
A: The internet that you would normally be paying for with the speed you signed up for.
B: Internet that you get for free that is < 50% of what TWC promises you.


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## Nordic (Mar 26, 2013)

Thanks for the explanation. I have and understanding of how cable companies distribute internet/cable. I did not have this problem in either of the two places I lived before I lived here. Oddly enough, as stated, this place is a quarter mile from where all the nodes etc connect. This neighborhood is newer that the places I lived before too.

Also, something funny I heard from that friend is that some person/group/random people keep cutting off chunks of fiber optic cable thinking it is copper. It keeps happening too every few month or so at some end of town or the other.


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## jboydgolfer (Mar 26, 2013)

If the QOS policy is saying that there is already a rule, then clear the list, and Set it to Your Mac address QOS instead of application , or port, etc. That seems to do the trick for me. Also , if your router has the option, try enabling WMM ( WiFi multimedia Settings) it helps wireless devices gain priority while engaging in certain bandwidth sensitive activities, such as Video viewing, or gaming. Please forgive IF these ideas were already mentioned, I didn't feel like going through all the previous posts. Good Luck.


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