# Phenom II X4 Overclocks to 6.00 GHz on LN2



## btarunr (Nov 21, 2008)

During an event by AMD held at its facility in Austin, Texas, the engineers took an engineering sample of the unreleased Deneb core based Phenom II X4, installed a copper-pot for liquid nitrogen cooling, and dropped the operational temperature to -185 °C. They then jacked up the vCore to 1.90V, to facilitate a clock speed of over 6.00 GHz!

At this point the exact frequency isn't known. Cameras weren't allowed at the event, and so no clear pictures were taken. Earlier the company had released slides to its channel contacts, telling that Phenom II would overclock very well, and 24x7 overclocks beyond 3.60 GHz on air didn't sound unreal. At the same event, AMD showcased Deneb chips doing 4.00 GHz with air-cooling (with vCore set at 1.6V).



 



*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## wolf2009 (Nov 21, 2008)

awesome news, lets see how fast they are than intel quad cores .


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## mechtech (Nov 21, 2008)

I wonder what it will do at low power, say 1.25V, then i can run it on solar lol


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## ShadowFold (Nov 21, 2008)

Isn't this the record for multi cores? I know this isn't really official as there is no validation but if there was wouldn't it be?


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## panchoman (Nov 21, 2008)

the thing is though, core i7 can clock around there too, and it can beat a phenom clock to clock. but this is a huge step for amd!


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## HTC (Nov 21, 2008)

wolf2009 said:


> ya but this is news.
> 
> anyways awesome news, lets see how fast they are than intel quad cores .





btarunr said:


> Submitting news is the better thing to do, though it doesn't stop me from putting things up on the front-page.



I just wanted to put the other discussion here: no point in saying the same thing in 2 different threads, no?

Besides, it's much easier to search in "News" section then in "Overclocking & Cooling".

EDIT



panchoman said:


> the thing is though, core i7 can clock around there too, and it can beat a phenom clock to clock. but this is a huge step for amd!



Are you referring to Phenom II? Where did you see benches of this?


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## wolf2009 (Nov 21, 2008)

panchoman said:


> the thing is though, core i7 can clock around there too, and it can beat a phenom clock to clock. but this is a huge step for amd!



amd doesn't need to be faster than Core i7

Core i7 is not going to have a market share of more than 2% until Q3 2009 when Intel starts shipping p55/Lynnfield. 

AMD P-II only needs to be faster than Intel Quad Penryns . Thats where the mainstream lies and that is where most money will be made from OEM's.

I suggest reading this 



Nehalem Part 3: The Cache Debate, LGA-1156 and the 32nm Future


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## johnnyfiive (Nov 21, 2008)

wow.


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## DaMulta (Nov 21, 2008)

IF AMD released a dual cpu board with DDR 3. I think it would out run a i7 machine.

8 real cores, and memory controller on the cpu.....


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## btarunr (Nov 21, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> IF AMD released a dual cpu board with DDR 3. I think it would out run a i7 machine.
> 
> 8 real cores, and memory controller on the cpu.....



That was long-term plan. To resurrect the FX line using DSDC, and give out something similar to dual Athlon64 FX 74. Dual Windsors scaled terribly over DSDC, with even a Phenom 9500 walking all over it, so it remains to be seen if a dual Deneb matches an i7.


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## Para_Franck (Nov 21, 2008)

But why is the overclocking potential so important? just release a 4.0Ghz stock clock already, even if does not overclock much over stock....
(Should I be asking this knowing that my X2 5600+ runs at 3.3Ghz)


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## AphexDreamer (Nov 21, 2008)

Para_Franck said:


> But why is the overclocking potential so important? just release a 4.0Ghz stock clock already, even if does not overclock much over stock....
> (Should I be asking this knowing that my X2 5600+ runs at 3.3Ghz)



Yeah but then they Could charge you more for it and if not that, they would be losing money if they were to sell a 4.0Ghz CPU at the price of what they will soon sell to be 3.0Ghz one.


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## DaMulta (Nov 21, 2008)

Para_Franck said:


> But why is the overclocking potential so important? just release a 4.0Ghz stock clock already, even if does not overclock much over stock....
> (Should I be asking this knowing that my X2 5600+ runs at 3.3Ghz)



For the fun.

It's hobby for a lot of people. Most people that do this as a hobby can't afford to go that extreme, but would if it was cheaper.

----

Miss read your post. It's because Intel knows that AMD can not do it. They can sell all their chips at 3.0ghz now. If AMD released a chip that was clocked at 4.0Ghz, Intel would release one the very next day.

It's all about the money.


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## Noggrin (Nov 21, 2008)

Nice, mb now amd will finally beat the old Q6600.. 

If its close to the 45nm intel quad-cores would be cool..


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## suraswami (Nov 21, 2008)

Para_Franck said:


> But why is the overclocking potential so important? just release a 4.0Ghz stock clock already, even if does not overclock much over stock....
> (Should I be asking this knowing that my X2 5600+ runs at 3.3Ghz)



Thats called bragging rights just like all the camp jumpers do.

But 6ghz 

Go AMD Go


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## AlCabone (Nov 21, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> For the fun.
> 
> It's because Intel knows that AMD can not do it. They can sell all their chips at 3.0ghz now. If AMD released a chip that was clocked at 4.0Ghz, Intel would release one the very next day.
> 
> It's all about the money.



Actually Intel can't do that either within reasonable power envelops.


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## DaMulta (Nov 21, 2008)

AlCabone said:


> Actually Intel can't do that either within reasonable power envelops.



They(Intel) are fixing to release a dual cpu skulltrail x58 board

That works with ddr3

____

I'm losing it....be ___ the power usage. Intel could release a 4Ghz QX9650 today if they wanted to.

Not everyone cares about being green Some only care about what can it do.


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## wiak (Nov 21, 2008)

panchoman said:


> the thing is though, core i7 can clock around there too, and it can beat a phenom clock to clock. but this is a huge step for amd!


well, a i7+mb+mem combo is around $1000, phenomII+mb+mem combo is around $480
so i dont think amd aims to be the fastest, they are just doing HD 4870 again, if you cant beat them, be cheaper and have awesome performace for price


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## Disruptor4 (Nov 21, 2008)

That's nuts! Can't wait to see actual validation etc so that it's an official fastest clock, yes?


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## DaC (Nov 21, 2008)

*It's a market thing...*

Veeeeeeeeeeeery nice!!! I pretty much understand this move..... Well we, enthusiasts, are not a big part of the computer market share..... Most of guys here disgrace a64 x2 and phenom because it got a poor overclock potential compared to Core 2 and we do that even knowing that on price/performance ratio AMD cpus (most of them), are neck to neck on most cases to Core 2.........
So, to the normal computer user that won't overclock (more than 90% for sure) AMD or Intel are both as good as (When Intel was losing with NETbrust it choose investing in propaganda while AMD against Core 2 choose price/performance ratio to keep competitive). So which company I love most ? AMD! Which one I'm using ATM ? Intel...... You see, we can be 10% or less, but all these sites around are made by enthusiasts guys that says the same: AMD don't overclock: BAD..... intel overclocks: Good......... and people read it..... sum it up to we guys telling to our friends and paratens that don't understand about acomputers to buy Intel, almost only based on overclock potential.... I lost count on how much people already asked me to build a computer for them or that bought a computer/notebook based on my oppinion....... so I'm a overclocker and I'm not just one costumer, I'm much more than this because people buy their computer based on my oppinion of which one is the best now...... then my friend tells to a friend that tells to his friends and things keeps going...........................
Get the point ? Overclockers, enthusiasts are a key consumer to AMD or Intel.....


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## tonyd223 (Nov 21, 2008)

*Overclocked AM3 - errr, how?*

Ok, I so want to believe this - that AMD are back in the game with a competitive by performance and price product. Of course there is an issue with the motherboards - www.custompc.co.uk tested a load recently and the AM2 boards tended to blow up!

And my socket 939 stuff is getting so old now...


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## PCpraiser100 (Nov 21, 2008)

Looks like Fusion is showing its fab.


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## tkpenalty (Nov 21, 2008)

has anyone noticed AMD's performance on the stock markets?


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## btarunr (Nov 21, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> has anyone noticed AMD's performance on the stock markets?



It's going down.


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Nov 21, 2008)

Yeah so this looks pretty good, but thats what they said about the last Phenoms.  They were far from Phenomenal.


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## zithe (Nov 21, 2008)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> Yeah so this looks pretty good, but thats what they said about the last Phenoms.  *They were far from Phenomenal.*



Is that a pun? XD

I'm excited.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Nov 21, 2008)

Looks like the sales of big copper tubes will be going up


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## EarlZ (Nov 21, 2008)

They show an LN2 OCing potential but say it should clock well in air ,  is that always the case when a chip does decently on LN2?


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## wolf2009 (Nov 21, 2008)

EarlZ said:


> They show an LN2 OCing potential but say it should clock well in air ,  is that always the case when a chip does decently on LN2?



ya, they showed 4Ghz on air


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## PaulieG (Nov 21, 2008)

Para_Franck said:


> But why is the overclocking potential so important? just release a 4.0Ghz stock clock already, even if does not overclock much over stock....
> (Should I be asking this knowing that my X2 5600+ runs at 3.3Ghz)



It's all about the life of an enthusiast. Overclocking potential is king.


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Nov 21, 2008)

i think intel is going to get a beating in the midrange ....


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## DaMulta (Nov 21, 2008)

btarunr said:


> It's going down.



Best time to buy a ton of it


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## wolf2009 (Nov 21, 2008)

[I.R.A]_FBi said:


> i think intel is going to get a beating in the midrange ....



absoly i agree


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## farlex85 (Nov 21, 2008)

All these ghz clocks are meaningless w/o architecture efficiency, which we have no indication of as of yet.  6ghz on the same phenom clock for clock speed still isn't that good compared to i7. We had some indication of how nehalem would do clock for clock this long before launch, I wish they would show us the same here, cause raw ghz is meaningless these days unless comparing the exact same architecture to itself.


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## PaulieG (Nov 21, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> All these ghz clocks are meaningless w/o architecture efficiency, which we have no indication of as of yet.  6ghz on the same phenom clock for clock speed still isn't that good compared to i7. We had some indication of how nehalem would do clock for clock this long before launch, I wish they would show us the same here, cause raw ghz is meaningless these days unless comparing the exact same architecture to itself.



Very good point. I'm not expecting the new phenom to beat i7 in architecture efficiency, but even if it were reasonably competitive would be great. Especially when "high end" AMD chips often fall in the price range of mid range Intel cpus. I can't wait to see the numbers. If it's even close to i7, I'll be moving to AMD.


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## tonyd223 (Nov 21, 2008)

*6GHz... architecture equality*

wonder what my SuperPi score would be if I could clock my Athlon XP2600+ up to that without setting fire to the house - wife would KILL me...

and as for the ZX81...


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## wolf2009 (Nov 21, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> All these ghz clocks are meaningless w/o architecture efficiency, which we have no indication of as of yet.  6ghz on the same phenom clock for clock speed still isn't that good compared to i7. We had some indication of how nehalem would do clock for clock this long before launch, I wish they would show us the same here, cause raw ghz is meaningless these days unless comparing the exact same architecture to itself.



you are forgetting that 9950 was almost equal to Q6600. and quad core penryns are not much faster. 

So if P-II is a little bit faster than P-I, then it is equal to Intel quad core penryns. Maybe it will even beat them, thats what AMD needs to do. 
Thats the mainstream, that is where money is. 

Core i7 is not going to have a market share of 1-2% until Q3 2009 until Intel starts shipping P55/Lynnfield


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## ShadowFold (Nov 21, 2008)

I hope the Athlon X3-X4 line OC just as good if not better. They have half the cache so they might need a lot less volts.


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## Pixelated (Nov 21, 2008)

6.3Ghz under LN2 at 1.9v! 

1.9v!


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## btarunr (Nov 21, 2008)

If Propus and Rana indeed lack L3 caches instead of them merely being disabled, there is scope for a good OC potential (reduced transistor count, vCore).


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## farlex85 (Nov 21, 2008)

wolf2009 said:


> you are forgetting that 9950 was almost equal to Q6600. and quad core penryns are not much faster.
> 
> So if P-II is a little bit faster than P-I, then it is equal to Intel quad core penryns. Maybe it will even beat them, thats what AMD needs to do.
> Thats the mainstream, that is where money is.
> ...



Not really, it was still a bit behind. And penryn is actually considerably faster than kentsfield. Penryn will also be able to be priced extremely competitively since at this point it's old tech. If all PII does is match penryn's performance, there still isn't much of a compelling reason to go that route, except perhaps novelty and amd dedication. 

However, we do seem to be coming into a time where many enthusiasts don't need the power that the entire i7 line brings (gamers). So if AMD can beat penryn a bit and make the price super compelling, then many, including myself, will have a very good reason to go over. But I personally couldn't care less if it does 6ghz or 4ghz on air (my 2 year old 6750 does 4ghz on air no problem).


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## PaulieG (Nov 21, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> Not really, it was still a bit behind. And penryn is actually considerably faster than kentsfield. Penryn will also be able to be priced extremely competitively since at this point it's old tech. If all PII does is match penryn's performance, there still isn't much of a compelling reason to go that route, except perhaps novelty and amd dedication.
> 
> However, we do seem to be coming into a time where many enthusiasts don't need the power that the entire i7 line brings (gamers). So if AMD can beat penryn a bit and make the price super compelling, then many, including myself, will have a very good reason to go over. But I personally couldn't care less if it does 6ghz or 4ghz on air (my 2 year old 6750 does 4ghz on air no problem).



But if that 4ghz on air translates into performance, and the price is right...I'll go for it. I've got an old soft spot for AMD.


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## farlex85 (Nov 21, 2008)

Paulieg said:


> But if that 4ghz on air translates into performance, and the price is right...I'll go for it. I've got an old soft spot for AMD.



Oh absolutely, my point was just that 4ghz alone means nothing w/o even knowing what 3ghz does. I almost don't like AMD b/c of the constant fanboyism they receive , but if they do this right I'll probably have a phenom II next year.


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## jydie (Nov 21, 2008)

btarunr said:


> It's going down.



True... but with this awful slump, almost ALL stocks have been going down.


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## PaulieG (Nov 21, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> Oh absolutely, my point was just that 4ghz alone means nothing w/o even knowing what 3ghz does. I almost don't like AMD b/c of the constant fanboyism they receive , but if they do this right I'll probably have a phenom II next year.



i'm just looking for the same kind of fun I had with my 939 DFI LP boards and AMD chips. There was enough of a challenge to overclock them to keep it fun. Intel has been way too easy. Though I hear the i7 is a bit more challenging.


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## KBD (Nov 21, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> All these ghz clocks are meaningless w/o architecture efficiency, which we have no indication of as of yet.  6ghz on the same phenom clock for clock speed still isn't that good compared to i7. We had some indication of how nehalem would do clock for clock this long before launch, I wish they would show us the same here, cause raw ghz is meaningless these days unless comparing the exact same architecture to itself.



yes, i also agree with this, high clocks dont mean a hell of a lot without the architecture to back it up. We already seen this in the P4 days when Intel had insane clocks and AMD had the superior architecture. 

But we dont know what kind of revisions AMD made to k10, if it was vastly improved then it will be challenger to C2Q/C2D and may be even Corei7. The bottom line is that AMD still made a very impressive move, 6Ghz on LN2 for AMD is a huge leap forward, remember with Phenom 1, the limit was 4GHz, so all in all i'm very pleased to see this happen.


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## r9 (Nov 21, 2008)

Noggrin said:


> Nice, mb now amd will finally beat the old Q6600..
> 
> If its close to the 45nm intel quad-cores would be cool..



That is so sad and so true


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## Zyrocenus (Nov 21, 2008)

*According to Neowin*

According to Neowin the computer only booted at 6GHz on LN2.  It was stable at 5GHz.  Impressive none the less but where does the inaccuracy lie?  Here or Neowin....   I'm lookin into it

Zyro


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## btarunr (Nov 21, 2008)

Sources point at the same thing. They achieved a 5+ GHz clock, and finished their session with a successful 6+ GHz boot.


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## Gam'ster (Nov 21, 2008)

Well done AMD, have a beer or 2


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## trt740 (Nov 21, 2008)

well great for AMD but to tell the truth there is nothing wrong with the current AMD chips or for that matter Intel. They both can handle anything thrown at them and all this is overkill so bring it on. LOL


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## spearman914 (Nov 21, 2008)

6 GHz!! Now onto 7.


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## WarEagleAU (Nov 21, 2008)

Thats pretty remarkable for an AMD chip. I never knew they could hit that high. I Believe Intel has already touched 6ghz though. Pretty awesome and Im ecstatic. Looks like my putting off for the new phenom is working in my favor.


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## OzzmanFloyd120 (Nov 21, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> I almost don't like AMD b/c of the constant fanboyism they receive...



You are quick to point the fanboism on the AMD side, but whenever AMD pulls out a good card the intel fanbois are the first to cry out "NO DATS NOT TEH POSSIBLE! i7 IZ TEH ULTIMATE ARCHITECTURE!"
At least us AMD fanboys can sit back and shut the hell up when we know we're going to lose instead of crying over it.

Edit: Also I remember a few months back btarunr posted some benches showing the Deneb engineering samples beating out the i7 engineering samples.


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## farlex85 (Nov 21, 2008)

OzzmanFloyd120 said:


> You are quick to point the fanboism on the AMD side, but whenever AMD pulls out a good card the intel fanbois are the first to cry out "NO DATS NOT TEH POSSIBLE! i7 IZ TEH ULTIMATE ARCHITECTURE!"
> At least us AMD fanboys can sit back and shut the hell up when we know we're going to lose instead of crying over it.
> 
> Edit: Also I remember a few months back btarunr posted some benches showing the Deneb engineering samples beating out the i7 engineering samples.



Please don't make a fanboy of fanboy's argument (arguing why some fanboys are better than others), it sickens me . I just meant that many people seem like they would buy AMD even if they weren't even close in performance and charged nearly the same price. AMD fanboyism far, far outnumbers reverse, and it seems to have little reason, although from what I can gather it has aroused from previous trends before I was into computers. I was being facetious when I said I almost don't like AMD b/c of it (such strong fanboyism that to me seems unwarranted makes me the opposite fanboy ), I really don't care about brand at all, only product. Anyway, yay processors. 

Edit: I guess I missed that thread. That would be quite the feat though and great for the market, probably a bit too good to be true though.


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## sunil (Nov 22, 2008)

Welcome back AMD, Welcome back


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## btarunr (Nov 22, 2008)

More Pics thanks to D -

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=1072073&postcount=14


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## Urbklr (Nov 22, 2008)

I just shit myself, thanks AMD.


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## btarunr (Nov 22, 2008)

OzzmanFloyd120 said:


> Also I remember a few months back btarunr posted some benches showing the Deneb engineering samples beating out the i7 engineering samples.



I don't remember doing so


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## CyberDruid (Nov 22, 2008)

WTH first Obama wins the election and now AMD hit's 6ghz?!  It's the end of days I tell ya


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## Bigjohn (Nov 22, 2008)

CyberDruid said:


> WTH first Obama wins the election and now AMD hit's 6ghz?!  It's the end of days I tell ya



Too funny... I keep telling that demon in my basement to stay put for a while longer....


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## OzzmanFloyd120 (Nov 22, 2008)

btarunr said:


> I don't remember doing so



I could have sworn that you had posted some, I looked back to find them but you have so many posts that it's hard 
Maybe it was against the high end C2D chips :dunno:


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## btarunr (Nov 22, 2008)

To help your search a little: http://www.techpowerup.com/tags.php?tag=AMD


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## OzzmanFloyd120 (Nov 22, 2008)

Does anybody know anything about the architecture? Is it going to be just like the same old phenoms loaded down with cache or did they change the way they operate?


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## OzzmanFloyd120 (Nov 22, 2008)

I think this was the review I thought I remembered, but my memory must be getting horrible because it doesn't even mention C2 or i7 chips in it.


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## iStink (Nov 22, 2008)

lol the look on the guy's face on the left is that of intense concentration.


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## Silverel (Nov 22, 2008)

CyberDruid said:


> WTH first Obama wins the election and now AMD hit's 6ghz?!  It's the end of days I tell ya





Yah. Wow... This would be a hell of a reason to invest in watercooling. Figger 4ghz on air, 5ghz on water, 6ghz on LN2.... hehe

1.9v ain't that much 
I've got ram that runs at 2.5v (DDR)


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## Noggrin (Nov 22, 2008)

Silverel said:


> 1.9v ain't that much
> I've got ram that runs at 2.5v (DDR)



lol! ddr or ddr2 can run over v2.0.. so that means v1.9 is not much for 45nm cpu? lol...

deneb hit 4.0 with v1.6, thats even much, lets hope the cpu can handle this w/o gettin degraded... I was really hyped about deneb.. befor I saw those results..


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## DrunkenMafia (Nov 22, 2008)

I have a low end phenom chip and the thing is easily fast enough for anything vista has.  It seems the cpu world is going the way of the gfx card world.  release after release after release, we can't keep up.  

Oh well it keeps the prices down for us aye.


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## KBD (Nov 22, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> Please don't make a fanboy of fanboy's argument (arguing why some fanboys are better than others), it sickens me . I just meant that many people seem like they would buy AMD even if they weren't even close in performance and charged nearly the same price. AMD fanboyism far, far outnumbers reverse, and it seems to have little reason, although from what I can gather it has aroused from previous trends before I was into computers. I was being facetious when I said I almost don't like AMD b/c of it (such strong fanboyism that to me seems unwarranted makes me the opposite fanboy ), I really don't care about brand at all, only product. Anyway, yay processors.
> 
> Edit: I guess I missed that thread. That would be quite the feat though and great for the market, probably a bit too good to be true though.




i don't think AMD gets fanboyism, they get support, like one would support a sports team. They are fighting against a giant Intel, while they are much smaller company. People tend to sympathize with the underdog, Intel doesnt deserve sympathy since they are so far ahead and there is little competition and they are dipping deeper into our pockets as a result. There was so much excitement around AMD A64 CPUs and getting the performance crown several years ago, folks still remember how this little company managed to beat Intel and are hoping for a repeat of that. Plus people are tired of Intel dominance, even some owners of Intel CPUs want to switch if Phenom 2 performs. Furthermore, AMD is an innovator: hyper-transport, IMC, first consumer 64 bit CPU, first dual core CPU, first native quad-core and so forth. This is why they get so much props, i'm not saying that Intel doesnt deserve credit for some stuff, they do, but it seems to me they are slower to innovate and with much larger R&D budget we should've seen more new tech from them.


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## $ReaPeR$ (Nov 22, 2008)

please dont start arguing over nothing.. these news are great but some confirmation wouldnt hurt anyone, wish there were some CPUz pics b/c  this way it wouldnt look like pure marketing. imo AMD is doing to intel the same thing that it did to Nvidia.


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## Bluesman (Nov 22, 2008)

*Phenom II Architecture*



OzzmanFloyd120 said:


> Does anybody know anything about the architecture? Is it going to be just like the same old phenoms loaded down with cache or did they change the way they operate?



Phenom II has significant improvements over Phenom I.  Some have speculated that given the phenom underlining architecture is the same in Phenom II that you would see high current leakage as you overclocked to 4.0Ghz.  HERE you see that there are significant architecture changes in AMD's 45nm chip.



> The transistor drive current for AMD's 45-nm devices is much lower than that of the Intel HKMG transistors. But power consumption is quickly becoming a high priority for server chips. AMD's transistors exhibit very low channel leakage. Our transistor benchmarks indicates *that leakage current is less than one-third of the value measured on AMD's 65-nm process. It's also significantly lower than the Intel 45-nm HKMG process. In fact the Ion/Ioff ratio for AMD's PFET is nearly 10 times better than that for the Intel PFET.*


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## Bluesman (Nov 22, 2008)

$ReaPeR$ said:


> .....imo AMD is doing to intel the same thing that it did to Nvidia.



The word on the street is that the ATI team is significantly changing the culture at AMD.  For example, HERE you will see the following comment:



> Judging by our sources, ATI guys are making great changes inside the company and changing the product line-up in ways that old AMD would never think of.



IMHO, AMD is using "guerrilla marketing" to promote Phenom II.  Formal advertising and benchmarks prior to launch will only result in a crushing Intel response. AMD needs enthusiasts to get excited about a big product rollout.  Think ATI 48xx marketing and how nVidia was caught flat-footed on pricing and marketing.


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## Hayder_Master (Nov 23, 2008)

that will kick core i7 away , woow impressive


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## $ReaPeR$ (Nov 23, 2008)

Bluesman said:


> The word on the street is that the ATI team is significantly changing the culture at AMD.  For example, HERE you will see the following comment:
> 
> 
> i can see your point and totaly agree with it. thanks for the info.. lets hope the PII will be as  good as they look.


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## btarunr (Nov 23, 2008)

Bluesman said:


> IMHO, AMD is using "guerrilla marketing" to promote Phenom II.  Formal advertising and benchmarks prior to launch will only result in a crushing Intel response. AMD needs enthusiasts to get excited about a big product rollout.  Think ATI 48xx marketing and how nVidia was caught flat-footed on pricing and marketing.



Agreed. Former ATI's PR tactics, have had quite some influence on AMD lately. This could well be the right way to market their processors, not the way AMD did during the Barcelona/Agena launch.


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Nov 23, 2008)

$ReaPeR$ said:


> Bluesman said:
> 
> 
> > The word on the street is that the ATI team is significantly changing the culture at AMD.  For example, HERE you will see the following comment:
> ...


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## Noggrin (Nov 23, 2008)

$ReaPeR$ said:


> AMD is doing to intel the same thing that it did to Nvidia.



and what amd did to nvidia?



hayder.master said:


> that will kick core i7 away , woow impressive



you are not serious, are you? lets hope it beats Q6600 clock-to-clock...


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## HTC (Nov 23, 2008)

Noggrin said:


> and what amd did to nvidia?
> 
> 
> 
> *you are not serious, are you? lets hope it beats Q6600 clock-to-clock...*



Personally, i'm hoping it beats the hell out of the Q6600 and comes close to like 8% or so slower then i7: less is even better.

Why you ask? Because it would force Intel to lower their prices of c2d and c2q to stay competitive. That's a win for us consumers.


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## OzzmanFloyd120 (Nov 24, 2008)

Noggrin said:


> and what amd did to nvidia?



You obviously weren't paying attention when the GTX260/280 and HD 4850/70 came out, were you?

In a nutshell AMD released GPUs that scale better and made a killing in the performance:cost department.


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## DrPepper (Nov 24, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> Not really, it was still a bit behind. And penryn is actually considerably faster than kentsfield.



I thought penryn was only a die shrink, added instructions and more cache, it can't be more than 5-10 percent faster.


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## OzzmanFloyd120 (Nov 24, 2008)

DrPepper said:


> I thought penryn was only a die shrink, added instructions and more cache, it can't be more than 5-10 percent faster.



It depends where they've added the instruction, because before the new cores the L3 was useless. For instance look at the C2D, the added cache on that makes the processor rock.


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## DrPepper (Nov 24, 2008)

OzzmanFloyd120 said:


> It depends where they've added the instruction, because before the new cores the L3 was useless. For instance look at the C2D, the added cache on that makes the processor rock.



I thought the biggest advantage would be the new SSE instructions and that wouldn't really help in games.


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## farlex85 (Nov 24, 2008)

DrPepper said:


> I thought penryn was only a die shrink, added instructions and more cache, it can't be more than 5-10 percent faster.



Well it was, 5-10% sounds about right on a clock for clock basis. Of course they also extended that margin w/ the q9550 and q9650, both of which have a higher stock clock and can clock higher than the two kentsfields. That's mostly what I was thinking, for PII to surpass penryn effectively, it will have to go past the q6600 to the considerably faster q9650.


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## DrPepper (Nov 24, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> Well it was, 5-10% sounds about right. Of course they also extended that margin w/ the q9550 and q9650, both of which have a higher stock clock and can clock higher than the two kentsfields. That's mostly what I was thinking, for PII to surpass penryn effectively, it will have to go past the q6600 to the considerably faster q9650.



I think kentsfield should have came with higher clocks. Intel were clearly capable of releasing stock q66's above 3ghz since the amazing overclockability of them. Also I wonder how the yorkies will hold out against the new phenoms.


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## Noggrin (Nov 24, 2008)

HTC said:


> Personally, i'm hoping it beats the hell out of the Q6600 and comes close to like 8% or so slower then i7: less is even better.
> 
> Why you ask? Because it would force Intel to lower their prices of c2d and c2q to stay competitive. That's a win for us consumers.



Yes, I too want to beat Q6600 and even the low end 45nm Intel quad-cores - Q8300, Q9300 and so on. Thats gona cut prices somehow. But to say/hope that Deneb will get close to Nehalem is just not realistic.



OzzmanFloyd120 said:


> You obviously weren't paying attention when the GTX260/280 and HD 4850/70 came out, were you?
> 
> In a nutshell AMD released GPUs that scale better and made a killing in the performance:cost department.



I was.

48xx scale better? From all the reviews I've read the conclusion is something like that: 

gtx280 >> 4870, gtx 260 > 4850

And now with 180.xx even gtx260 >> 4870 

But yes for a few months nvidia was gettin raped by ati, what was dissapoiting was that ati still couldnt get the second place in the gpu market but hell for two years nvidia was dominating in the market, it was somehow refreshing and the gpu's were graet price/performance as you said. But most important is that nvidia get fucked and I hope they learned the lesson now - great gpus + crazy price = you get raped by your competition. Im really curious what the 55nm g200 has to offer.


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## DrPepper (Nov 24, 2008)

Noggrin said:


> Im really curious what the 55nm g200 has to offer.



Do you mean a 55nm GTX280 or the GTX290, either way I doubt the GTX290 will be much better than the 280, maybe the 8800 Ultra to the 8800 GTX


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## Ravenas (Nov 24, 2008)

All I can say is DENEB folks.


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## OzzmanFloyd120 (Nov 24, 2008)

Sham-wow


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## GoriLLakoS (Nov 24, 2008)

The first 2 AMD Phenom II that will be released on 9th of january will be :
*



			1. AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition, Part Number : HDZ940XCGIBOX with 125W TDP, on Socket AM2+. The default speed will be 3000MHz with 8MB Cache.
2. MD Phenom II X4 920, Part Number : HDX920XCGIBOX with 125W TDP, on Socket AM2+. The default speed will be 2800MHz with 8MB Cache.
		
Click to expand...

*
Source here and transalted here !


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## PaulieG (Nov 24, 2008)

GoriLLakoS said:


> The first 2 AMD Phenom II that will be released on 9th of january will be :
> *
> 
> 
> ...


*

I wonder how many decent boards will be available at launch, and what retail prices will be like.*


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## GoriLLakoS (Nov 24, 2008)

Retail Prices for Phenom II will be less...more less than the current Intel Core i7 !

Let's say: Intel Core i7 920 = AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition . . . 

For the variety of the motherboards and the prices i do not know...the only thing i know is that only ASUS has high MSRPs on AMD Boards ! But on the other hand, those CPUs will be AM2+, so they will play on most of the mobos that are already out now


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## PaulieG (Nov 24, 2008)

GoriLLakoS said:


> Retail Prices for Phenom II will be less...more less than the current Intel Core i7 !
> 
> Let's say: Intel Core i7 920 = AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition . . .
> 
> For the variety of the motherboards and the prices i do not know...the only thing i know is that only ASUS has high MSRPs on AMD Boards ! But on the other hand, those CPUs will be AM2+, so they will play on most of the mobos that are already out now



I'm running DDR3 now, so I'll need a AM3 board.


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## btarunr (Nov 24, 2008)

GoriLLakoS said:


> The first 2 AMD Phenom II that will be released on 9th of january will be :
> *
> 
> 
> ...


*

Added to our news. Thanks!*


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## DrPepper (Nov 24, 2008)

They're using the same numbers as intel, this might make for some noobish mistakes.

newb to tech support : hey is my mobo and my cpu meant to have conatct pins or am i missing something, I've got the intel phenom 940.


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## wolf2009 (Nov 24, 2008)

DrPepper said:


> They're using the same numbers as intel, this might make for some noobish mistakes.
> 
> newb to tech support : hey is my mobo and my cpu meant to have conatct pins or am i missing something, I've got the phenom 940.



lol


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## ShadowFold (Nov 24, 2008)

DrPepper said:


> They're using the same numbers as intel, this might make for some noobish mistakes.
> 
> newb to tech support : hey is my mobo and my cpu meant to have conatct pins or am i missing something, I've got the intel phenom 940.



I dont think anyone making these mistakes would be buying 200-500$ worth of hardware


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## Bluesman (Nov 24, 2008)

*Preliminary Deneb Benchies*

HERE are some preliminary Deneb benchmarks.







You can compare to i7 if you read German HERE.  Also, Tweaktown has some benchies for i7 HERE.


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## Bluesman (Nov 24, 2008)

*Deneb Crysis Bench*

Deneb Crysis Bench with ATI 4870/X2 HERE.  Special _THANKS_ to *Informal* in Xtremesystems for the source of these benchies.  _

Please do not shoot the messager, go to markbench and flame there - I do not certify these results in any way.  This is for your edification and is not gospel._ 

Because of NDA, all journalists and mobo technicians are prohibited from posting such results, it is almost impossible to get any validation anywhere. Linus@ncix does suggest that Deneb is the bomb HERE.


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## DrPepper (Nov 24, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> I dont think anyone making these mistakes would be buying 200-500$ worth of hardware



There will be at least one of em.


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## zithe (Nov 24, 2008)

Bluesman said:


> HERE are some preliminary Deneb benchmarks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'd love to believe that. XD!


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## a_ump (Nov 24, 2008)

same here, though i don't plan to upgrade my CPU till probly next xmas, q6600 is only at 3ghz but hopefully with p45 will be 3.2-3.4, and that should hold me over this coming year till xmas.
IF amd do put out processors superior to penryn and great price/performance then they will have my money


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## Bluesman (Nov 25, 2008)

*Update*

The site I posted, markbench.blogspot.com, has now been discredited.  See comments on their site as well as xtremesystems news section.  All graphs are fake.

However, we now have some "legitimate" news on Deneb overclocking.  See HERE.  Many thanks to *Informal,* at xtremesystems, for this site reference.



> We are not allowed to give specifics on speeds at this time, but as a generalization one can expect the following stable performance without too much tweaking effort:
> 
> * Air: Around 4GHz is a safe area to target with decent aftermarket cooling & mild voltage increase. When I say "around" that means above and below, so don't gripe at me if your CPU won't hit 4GHz, there is no guarantee with overclocking. Also there aren't exactly huge amounts of CPUs out in the wild yet, so observations are somewhat limited.
> * LN2: If you were thinking 5GHz, guess again (and guess higher)... It was like the Energizer Bunny commercials... they just keep going, and going, and going. To say in excess of 5GHz is an understatement, but that's about as detailed as I'm allowed. There was another large leap too between what was "stable" and what you could get a CPU-Z screenshot of, so that shows even more promise in the long term as yields will undoubtedly improve.
> ...


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## DaC (Nov 25, 2008)

Bluesman said:


> The site I posted, markbench.blogspot.com, has now been discredited.  See comments on their site as well as xtremesystems news section.  All graphs are fake.
> 
> However, we now have some "legitimate" news on Deneb overclocking.  See HERE.  Many thanks to *Informal,* at xtremesystems, for this site reference.



33C on 4ghz @ 1.55v on air wow!!!!

Much better then my lapped Q6600 72C on 3.6ghz @ 1.45v with xigmatek S1283 and MX2 on full....... idle about 45C


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## Urbklr (Nov 25, 2008)

If this overclock info is true...I will be buying as soon as they come out, I already have the mobo picked out


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## DrPepper (Nov 25, 2008)

DaC said:


> 33C on 4ghz @ 1.55v on air wow!!!!
> 
> Much better then my lapped Q6600 72C on 3.6ghz @ 1.45v with xigmatek S1283 and MX2 on full....... idle about 45C



I was wondering why you had such high temps then realised you live in Brasil.


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## DaC (Nov 25, 2008)

DrPepper said:


> I was wondering why you had such high temps then realised you live in Brasil.



Well actually when I put my fan on the side of the open pc it drops to about 67C on a ambient temp. of about 28C


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## DrPepper (Nov 25, 2008)

DaC said:


> Well actually when I put my fan on the side of the open pc it drops to about 67C on a ambient temp. of about 28C



ahhh


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## jbunch07 (Dec 1, 2008)

Not sure if it has been said, but does anyone know if this overclock was done on am2+ or am3 platform?


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## btarunr (Dec 1, 2008)

jbunch07 said:


> Not sure if it has been said, but does anyone know if this overclock was done on am2+ or am3 platform?



AM2+, some say on a Gigabyte GA-MA790GP-DS4H.


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## jbunch07 (Dec 1, 2008)

ok thanks that's what I was thinking...I wonder if there will be any noticeable performance gain going from am2 to am3...amusing that memory is the only thing being changed.


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## ShadowFold (Dec 1, 2008)

jbunch07 said:


> ok thanks that's what I was thinking...I wonder if there will be any noticeable performance gain going from am3 to am2...amusing that memory is the only thing being changed.



I think its got higher hyper transport along with DDR3 but not 100% sure.


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