# Steam Hack More Severe Than Thought: Change Your Password NOW



## qubit (Nov 11, 2011)

Gabe Newell of Valve has issued a statement that the forum hack they experienced over the weekend actually goes much deeper than they thought. The criminals accessed the main database containing such goodies as user names, hashed and salted passwords, game purchases, email addresses, billing addresses and encrypted credit card information. Apparently, no personally identifying information was taken - but we await the result of the full investigation before breathing a sigh of relief. Due to this serious breach, TechPowerUp advises all Steam users to change their account password *immediately.* People starting up their Steam client will now see the following message from Gabe Newell about this:



> 10 November 2011
> Dear Steam Users and Steam Forum Users:
> 
> Our Steam forums were defaced on the evening of Sunday, November 6. We began investigating and found that the intrusion goes beyond the Steam forums.
> ...



*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## ZakkWylde (Nov 11, 2011)

beat ya to it 

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154945


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## qubit (Nov 11, 2011)

ZakkWylde said:


> beat ya to it
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154945



It was actually your post that alerted me to this, so thanks!


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## ZakkWylde (Nov 11, 2011)

You're very welcome. I don't usually post news type stuff but this is major. I'm on a hardcore security/password strengthening spree. The more people that know the better!


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## ViperXTR (Nov 11, 2011)

aligned to skyrim release? D:


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## qubit (Nov 11, 2011)

Could this be the work of Anonymous?


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## ColdRush (Nov 11, 2011)

Seriously what the hell is wrong with kids.  There is nothing remotely funny about this.


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## hat (Nov 11, 2011)

qubit said:


> Could this be the work of Anonymous?



I very highly doubt this.


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## Wrigleyvillain (Nov 11, 2011)

Godamnit.


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## qubit (Nov 11, 2011)

hat said:


> I very highly doubt this.



Why not? They attacked Sony, so they might well want to do the same with Steam.

Note that I don't have any evidence they did it, just saying that it's not that far fetched.


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## shb- (Nov 11, 2011)

Yea, i guess this could be Anonymous, they were quite active lately. Maybe they found some child pr0n conspiracy going on in steam forums?
Yesterday they cracked my PC and deleted all my nude photos of myself, those anonymous guys are really gone mad. Shame i didnt create any backups.

Anyways i hope credit card data are crypted hard. If not, this will be huge fail for valve.


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## Easy Rhino (Nov 11, 2011)

i wonder what bit algorithm they use for hash and salt. if it is SHA-256 or higher no fools are going to break it. unless of course they got their hands on the key...


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## DonInKansas (Nov 11, 2011)

I just wonder how they'll get the passwords and in.  Anytime I try to login from a different place I have to go through verification via email.


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## AsRock (Nov 11, 2011)

Contradiction at it's best ?.



> passwords, game purchases, email addresses, billing addresses and encrypted credit card information. We do not have evidence that encrypted credit card numbers or personally identifying information were taken




Something my wife bitching on about lol.
If they were hacked how you know this is not a hacker and secondly why wouldn't some thing this be signed manager or some thing and not just Gabe ?.

And just lets say if this was the hacker asking you change your password that he would know your password because you just changed it.


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## [H]@RD5TUFF (Nov 11, 2011)

Their systems must be being pounded hard cuz it will not let me change my PW.


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## kid41212003 (Nov 11, 2011)

Oh shit i logged off now i can't remember the passwords...

I don't even remember the security answer to do forgot passwords..


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## digibucc (Nov 11, 2011)

AsRock said:


> Contradiction at it's best ?.


credit card information can mean billing address, expiration, issuer, security code - but not necessarily card number.


kid41212003 said:


> Oh shit i logged off now i can't remember the passwords...
> 
> I don't even remember the security answer to do forgot passwords..



ouch


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## Mindweaver (Nov 11, 2011)

Here is what i got when just logged into steam.







Thanks Qubit!


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## HossHuge (Nov 11, 2011)

It took a long time to log in.  I'm guessing many people are changing their passwords right now.  I don't use a credit card on my computer so I'm not worried but I changed my password anyways.  It had been the same since the first time I used Steam so it was time for a change anyways.


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## ViperXTR (Nov 11, 2011)

> Yesterday they cracked my PC and *deleted all my nude photos of myself*, those anonymous guys are really gone mad. Shame i didnt create any backups.


Wow, Heroes really do exist.


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## [H]@RD5TUFF (Nov 11, 2011)

Canceling my credit card, this is really irritating!


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## qubit (Nov 11, 2011)

Mindweaver said:


> Here is what i got when just logged into steam.
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/111110/SteamHacked.jpg
> 
> Thanks Qubit!



A screenshot!


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## Solaris17 (Nov 11, 2011)

I wonder what gabes steam game list looks like.


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## xBruce88x (Nov 11, 2011)

password changed...

Steam Authenticator anyone?


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## CDdude55 (Nov 11, 2011)

I just deleted my Debit card number on Steam just to feel a little safer.


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## qubit (Nov 11, 2011)

Solaris17 said:


> I wonder what gabes steam game list looks like.



Oh, his has every single game and DLC in the catalogue. There are completely unrestricted accounts like that floating about, trust me.


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## FordGT90Concept (Nov 11, 2011)

I changed my Steam password when a thread was posted earlier about the forum password's being stolen.


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## AsRock (Nov 11, 2011)

digibucc said:


> credit card information can mean billing address, expiration, issuer, security code - but not necessarily card number.




That is personal information, your name billing address meaning were you live ?.  So they probably have your email address to. I SHOULD not have a issue with  my cards i don't save them on steam for this very reason.

Any information that you give them when signing up plus  any thing you use to buy though them is personal or this be a total none issue.


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## v12dock (Nov 11, 2011)

These people are just so cool...

My card is in crappy condition and I never changed it with the PSN hack. Now it's a great time to get a new card

And was the database mysql?


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## Riotpump (Nov 11, 2011)

Shit just got real....


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## Wrigleyvillain (Nov 11, 2011)

[H]@RD5TUFF said:


> Canceling my credit card, this is really irritating!



Um whoa there you don't need to up and cancel it, there is no evidence that any actual theft using card numbers has or will take place. What you *should* do is check your statement and continue to do so more often...

I bet it was EA! lol

(Hell they are lucky it wasn't Origin (yet) which may have even been easier. Speaking of which I need to change that pass too).


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## wickerman (Nov 11, 2011)

I laughed at this because even though I use steam, and had to change my password...my bank was hacked recently and though my credit card hadn't been fraudulently charged, they issued me a new visa card anyway...so now that steam got hacked I don't have to worry about my credit card since the info on steam isn't valid anyway 

Looks like 2011 is gunna be the year of the hacker, so many high profile companies have been hit this year, it's kinda scary to think about.

But I do like the steam system where in if a new system tries to log into your account, you need to enter an email confirmation number. Luckily I use different passwords for steam and my email. You can never have too many passwords it seems!


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## [H]@RD5TUFF (Nov 11, 2011)

Wrigleyvillain said:


> Um whoa there you don't need to up and cancel it, there is no evidence that any actual theft using card numbers has or will take place. What you *should* do is check your statement and continue to do so more often...
> 
> I bet it was EA! lol
> 
> (Hell they are lucky it wasn't Origin (yet) which may have even been easier. Speaking of which I need to change that pass too).



I can live without my visa card for a week, I can't live with my visa card being compromised period!:shadedshu


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## theJesus (Nov 11, 2011)

I use paypal, so there shouldn't be any way they could have gotten my CC info.  I still changed my password though.


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## Lionheart (Nov 11, 2011)

Spreading more fear --_--


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## btarunr (Nov 11, 2011)

qubit said:


> Could this be the work of Anonymous?



The typical anon worships Gabe Newell. I won't explain why, because that will sound politically incorrect.


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## Scrizz (Nov 11, 2011)

btarunr said:


> politically incorrect.



fuck that.


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## v12dock (Nov 11, 2011)

every time you hack steam gabe newell delays half life 3


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## 1c3d0g (Nov 11, 2011)

:shadedshu This hacking thing is way out of control. Company after company turns into a victim. It's only a matter of time. I don't use Steam, but I'd love to get my hands on one of these little f*ckers and beat the sh!t out of them!


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## [H]@RD5TUFF (Nov 11, 2011)

1c3d0g said:


> :shadedshu This hacking thing is way out of control. Company after company turns into a victim. It's only a matter of time. I don't use Steam, but I'd love to get my hands on one of these little f*ckers and beat the sh!t out of them!



Ditto!


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## Steven B (Nov 11, 2011)

um how does one change their password? i see no option to do so.


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## qubit (Nov 11, 2011)

btarunr said:


> The typical anon worships Gabe Newell. I won't explain why, because that will sound politically incorrect.



Hmmm... feel free to reply in PM, or better still, GN and send me a link!

I _love_ politically incorrect posts... 



Steven B said:


> um how does one change their password? i see no option to do so.


Two ways: run the Steam client and go to settings. That's one password. Then go to www.steampowered.com and click on Support. Log in there. That's a _different_ login - I think it's the same as the forum one, but don't hold me to it - and change the password there.

I've now changed, both of course. I did it before posting up that article, in fact.


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## Steven B (Nov 11, 2011)

i went to settings under the steam client, but it doesn't show password?


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## qubit (Nov 11, 2011)

Steven B said:


> i went to settings under the steam client, but it doesn't show password?



Right there, it's obvious. In the Steam client, go to Steam > Settings and you see the window below.


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## utengineer (Nov 11, 2011)

I never used my credit card on Steam....Paypal only.  Change password just in case at Steam and Paypal to be safe.


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## qubit (Nov 11, 2011)

utengineer said:


> I never used my credit card on Steam....Paypal only.  Change password just in case at Steam and Paypal to be safe.



Yeah, good idea.

You have a cool username bro, Unreal Tournament rocks like nothing else. 

Welcome to TPU.


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## Radical_Edward (Nov 11, 2011)

Lauren and I changed our PWs just in case.


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## H82LUZ73 (Nov 11, 2011)

kid41212003 said:


> Oh shit i logged off now i can't remember the passwords...
> 
> I don't even remember the security answer to do forgot passwords..



go the STEAM user control help ,Oh is at least separate from the forums too,Ask them to reset the pw I had to at least a month ago.All they need is a legit cd key tied to your account.

Go here if you forgot your password and your secret question,Just make damn sure you give all the right info,Also take a photo of you retail cd key or show them a receipt from an game purchase.https://support.steampowered.com/kb_cat.php?id=3


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## n-ster (Nov 11, 2011)

DAMN MOTHER F*** RSG SDFG DRFGSV

I'm mad...

EDIT: remember to change you password AND security question


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## Enmity (Nov 11, 2011)

uh oh, i just seen all this about steam and realised that i cant even log into my steam account. If I try to execute steam it comes up with 

"Unable to connect to the steam network. 'Offline Mode' is unavailable because there is no Steam login information stored on this computer. You will not be able to use steam until you are able to connect to the Steam network again"

what should I do?


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## qubit (Nov 11, 2011)

Enmity said:


> uh oh, i just seen all this about steam and realised that i cant even log into my steam account. If I try to execute steam it comes up with
> 
> "Unable to connect to the steam network. 'Offline Mode' is unavailable because there is no Steam login information stored on this computer. You will not be able to use steam until you are able to connect to the Steam network again"
> 
> what should I do?



Try it again. I just had a go and it worked fine. Now, I'm in the UK and I know that you can change the servers it contacts within the client settings. Can you do that without it authenticating?

If not, I reckon just trying every so often will eventually let you in.


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## Enmity (Nov 11, 2011)

thanks man, tried again and still the same message. Will keep trying. Cheers


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## Rammkopf (Nov 11, 2011)

Just the reason why I'm no fan of the cloud. Still trusting all those fat@$$ services that claim they're widely public and insanely safe in the same time? 

I've always been asking myself, who needs that friggin' Steam and all other on-line services of the likes, anyway? :shadedshu

Just take our money for the game, give us a decent server for on-line play (should we feel like it) that only requires a user ID and a password to log into and quit squeezing credit card info and such from your customers, ffs. Geez!


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## Shihab (Nov 11, 2011)

Funny, I didn't get the message when I ran Steam.
BTW, Wouldn't Steam Guard be more than enough for protection ? Unless you're E-mail is also compromised.


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## qubit (Nov 11, 2011)

Shihabyooo said:


> Funny, I didn't get the message when I ran Steam.
> BTW, Wouldn't Steam Guard be more than enough for protection ? Unless you're E-mail is also compromised.



No man, they got the root database. :shadedshu


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## Millennium (Nov 11, 2011)

changed my password just in case. If lots of steam accounts start getting hacked that would be pretty bad news for steam, they've been great so far. Except maybe the client is bloatware now but thats another story (and my PC can cope )


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## shb- (Nov 11, 2011)

Shihabyooo said:


> Funny, I didn't get the message when I ran Steam.
> BTW, Wouldn't Steam Guard be more than enough for protection ? Unless you're E-mail is also compromised.



I think it is enough to keep those hackers out of your steam account, unless u use same pwd for email too. So there is no real reason to change password (again - if u dont use it elsewhere). Other reason not to change pwd is that they were hashed and salted. I guess if your password is complex enough, no one will unsalt/unhash it.

Real problem is that they got some credit card data, IMO.

updated:
looks like credit card data was encrypted with aes256 (according to some comments @ toms), so no worries i guess.


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## n-ster (Nov 11, 2011)

I used the same password for my TPU forum and some other forums lol. But I don't feel like changing so many passwords


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## Ahhzz (Nov 11, 2011)

Thx Q, I don't use the steam forums, but changed my main one just in case.


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## John Doe (Nov 11, 2011)

I doubt they got anything at all... Steam forums are hacked by fkn0wned, who used to make CS:S hacks. This hack, IMO, isn't what it's hyped up to be. They probably only hacked the VBulletin and not much else. Steam is way more complicated than hacking a forum. It's not something a kid can break, even the debugger of Steam requires specific knowledge. There's virtually not a single program that can mess with Steam; say, brute force it. And there never have been one. It's like trying to hack Winamp. These guys simply aren't capable of doing such act.

That said, Gabe also mentions to change your Steam pass "just in case". So yeah.


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## qubit (Nov 11, 2011)

John Doe said:


> I doubt they got anything at all... Steam forums are hacked by fkn0wned, who used to make CS:S hacks. This hack, IMO, isn't what it's hyped up to be. They probably only hacked the VBulletin and not much else. Steam is way more complicated than hacking a forum. It's not something a kid can break, even the debugger of Steam requires specific knowledge. There's virtually not a single program that can mess with Steam; say, brute force it. And there never have been one. It's like trying to hack Winamp. These guys simply aren't capable of doing such act.
> 
> That said, Gabe also mentions to change your Steam pass "just in case". So yeah.



I'm sure you're right about the overall complexity/security of Steam. I'll bet Valve end up ditching vB and creating their own forum software that's more secure.

It might be a bit expensive and time consuming, but a company that operates 100% online could go out of business if they were seen as having poor security, so I reckon this is a possibility.


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## ShiBDiB (Nov 11, 2011)

Why is it that TPU, just like all the gaming wannabe news websites, are turning a hacking of the steam forum (not linked to ur steam account) into a hacking of steams secure servers.. 

All steam said to do is what you as a non retarded consumer should be doing anyway, watching your statements to make sure your not getting double charged, over charged, etc....

Sorry if I sound like an ass, but all this uppity make news out of nothing more then a Game Hack Website putting their ad into suddenly this being a full blown end of your credit score attack is retarded.


Your god damn topic title breaks forum rules as FUD.. Nowhere have I seen them doing anything besides covering their ass and doing what anyone whos had a forum hack done and resetting forum passwords. If they honestly had any hint that your accounts on a completely different presumably much better defended server had been compromised they would have also reset your steam account passwords.


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## qubit (Nov 11, 2011)

ShiBDiB said:


> You god damn topic title breaks forum rules as FUD..



It's more than that, it's a _news_ title. Does that make it better?


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## ShiBDiB (Nov 11, 2011)

I apologize I just worked all night so I'm grouchier then usual, but this entire thing is being blown completely out of proportion... And theirs no reason to get the less common sense empowered users all worried that their CC's are gonna have charges for random flat screen tv's and horse porn on them if they dont change their passwords.


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## John Doe (Nov 11, 2011)

qubit said:


> I'm sure you're right about the overall complexity/security of Steam. I'll bet Valve end up ditching vB and creating their own forum software that's more secure.
> 
> It might be a bit expensive and time consuming, but a company that operates 100% online could go out of business if they were seen as having poor security, so I reckon this is a possibility.



They don't have "poor security" at all. The system (Steam) has yet to be hacked in years. It's like a Media player, it doesn't get affected by traditional hacking methods. The only thing that's hacked here is SPUF, which is a pathetic forum. I stopped reading there a few years ago. Trolling/insults are galore, mods (volunteer) are chosen from users who praised VALVe the most against their update screw ups, people get banned left and right. People from VALVe don't care or even read it at all.

So basically, the forum is a representive of itself. It's not related to Steam at all. They're probably making fuss with the hopes of some guy that can't login to open a new account then buy the games again. lol.


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## qubit (Nov 11, 2011)

ShiBDiB said:


> I apologize I just worked all night so I'm grouchier then usual, but this entire thing is being blown completely out of proportion... And theirs no reason to get the less common sense empowered users all worried that their CC's are gonna have charges for random flat screen tv's and horse porn on them if they dont change their passwords.



Ya, no problem, I know all about feeling ratty!  

Thing is, I wouldn't feel too cozy that everything is all right. Think of the security breaches one sees with companies (not just gaming companies) who offer bland assurances that their customer's details are ok and then it turns out that the sh*t has hit the fan. Fact is, we just don't know yet and may never know, so it's a reasonable precaution to change our passwords.


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## n-ster (Nov 11, 2011)

> We learned that intruders obtained access to a Steam database in addition to the forums



So is it only the Steam forums or more? I'm confused


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## qubit (Nov 11, 2011)

n-ster said:


> So is it only the Steam forums or more? I'm confused



They got _to_ the databases, we don't know what they got _out_ of them, which is crucial. If it's meaningless highly encrypted data, then we're probably safe. Or if no data was extracted at all.


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## n-ster (Nov 11, 2011)

qubit said:


> They got _to_ the databases, we don't know what they got _out_ of them, which is crucial. If it's meaningless highly encrypted data, then we're probably safe. Or if no data was extracted at all.



K so it isn't blown out of proportion IMO... There IS a REAL chance that we could have had our passwords hacked etc etc


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## ShiBDiB (Nov 11, 2011)

n-ster said:


> K so it isn't blown out of proportion IMO... There IS a REAL chance that we could have had our passwords hacked etc etc



They would have reset your steam account passwords and issued more of a warning, the game industry learned from sony what to do in such a situation and steam isnt doing anything.. So I'm not worried.


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## n-ster (Nov 11, 2011)

The chances are low that they got anything... but I ain't leaving my steam account, passwords and if I had one on the account CC info in the hands of chance. It takes a few minutes to make sure everything is safe


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## John Doe (Nov 11, 2011)

n-ster said:


> The chances are low that they got anything... but I ain't leaving my steam account, passwords and if I had one on the account CC info in the hands of chance. It takes a few minutes to make sure everything is safe



Trust me, they didn't get anything. It's fkn0wned, a bunch of kids who write off CS:S hooks. I highly doubt some lamer kid can hack Steam DB.

Even if they did hack, your account is one out of millions. What's the chance of a few kids messing with yours out of millions? I personally am not concerned about this. And not going to change mine. They're hyping this for people to make new accounts.


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## digibucc (Nov 11, 2011)

i'm sure you're absolutely right john - but honestly it's a good idea to change passwords once every few years anyway, and i've had the same one forever.

also, while the chances may be small - my account is worth over $4k USD, i am not risking that to a friggin password, i'll change it thanks


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## Ahhzz (Nov 11, 2011)

John Doe said:


> .... They're hyping this for people to make new accounts.




I'm curious... for what reason would they want people to make new accounts?


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## n-ster (Nov 11, 2011)

Ahhzz said:


> I'm curious... for what reason would they want people to make new accounts?



He'll respond with something like stats or publicity

But WHO would make new accounts? noone... Who in the world would abandon their Steam account for this and not just change their password etc?


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## John Doe (Nov 11, 2011)

Ahhzz said:


> I'm curious... for what reason would they want people to make new accounts?



Erm, bucks? New games bought = more money for them.



n-ster said:


> But WHO would make new accounts? noone... Who in the world would abandon their Steam account for this and not just change their password etc?



There will always be some. If someone can't access his account, he might think his account in hacked in this period. Before he can login back, he might just open a new account and buy a few games.


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## qubit (Nov 11, 2011)

John Doe said:


> Erm, bucks? New games bought = more money for them.
> 
> There will always be some. If someone can't access his account, he might think his account in hacked in this period. Before he can login back, he might just open a new account and buy a few games.



Yeah, there will be some, but they'd be real dumbasses to do that.  I don't think there would be very many who would do this.


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## digibucc (Nov 11, 2011)

i highly doubt enough people to be noticeable would just create new accounts and buy new games. that's a thin theory with nothing really backing it. sorry.


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## John Doe (Nov 11, 2011)

digibucc said:


> i highly doubt enough people to be noticeable would just create new accounts and buy new games. that's a thin theory with nothing really backing it. sorry.



It's not. Say you can't login for a few days, and want to play your favourite game. You'd think your account may be hacked, then open a new one to just buy that game and play it. Afterwards, it wouldn't matter you login back to your old account or not. There you bought it, and you don't have to be stupid to do that either. On an online system like this, these kind of things happen. So why not write off a paragraph that will be forgotten if it'll land you more money? (regardless of it's amount)


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## digibucc (Nov 11, 2011)

but to say it's an elaborate scheme for that reason is far fetched. i'm not saying it never happens, i'm saying there is no way it happens as much as you are implying, and i in no way believe Valve is doing this on purpose. and i am the conspiracy guy among friends, i just don't see it. there is no way i would just accept my account is gone and start a new one, and anyone with more than 3 games i'd bet would be the same.


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## John Doe (Nov 11, 2011)

Steam is a huge network, so I wouldn't just think of myself. Not everyone buys everything off Steam. I don't integrate my games to it (after my past experiences) like having to wait for an update or it not booting. I buy games outside of Steam, and just because you keep them all under one account, doesn't mean everyone else does. In fact, most people I see on the community have a few games tied to their account. It's not wrong to think of it that way.


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## digibucc (Nov 11, 2011)

right but that still says nothing about the likelihood of gabe newell lying to everyone to create a few accounts and sell a few games. it's just ridiculously unlikely in my mind. i'll leave it there as this won't head anywhere good i don't think.


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## John Doe (Nov 11, 2011)

He lied about HL2's code being stolen (notting came out of it) to delay the game. They messed up TF2, worked on other games and didn't care for HL2: DM/CS:S updates etc. _for years_. They're a company, and companies aren't after you, they're after your money. So it's not unlikely to think he may slip this near the hacking of forum. VALVe screwed up a lot of stuff in past, and they did on purpose.


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## dicobalt (Nov 11, 2011)

It shouldn't even be legal for a website to store your credit card information once an order has been processed.


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## Crap Daddy (Nov 11, 2011)

No message from Gabe for me. I don't plan to change my password, got my account hacked once and got it back to work in a few days thanks to Gabe's boys so I'm not too worried. Oh, and my card is debit and most of the time the account is empty.


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## Wrigleyvillain (Nov 11, 2011)

John Doe said:


> VALVe screwed up a lot of stuff in past, and they did on purpose.



Oh PLEASE. :shadedshu

I think you need a new tin foil hat.


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## John Doe (Nov 11, 2011)

Wrigleyvillain said:


> Oh PLEASE. :shadedshu
> 
> I think you need a new tin foil hat.



They knew AVP was going to break CS:S, regardless, they did it. They knew porting the game to new engine would disable some console commands and bhopping, still, they did it. Then they fixed what they broke *after* what has happened.

I think you need to posses some brain before you resort to a cheap attack, but at this rate I've no reason to believe you do.


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## Wrigleyvillain (Nov 11, 2011)

If you honestly think Valve-the shining example of how to be a great game developer, have a revolutionary business model, provide fantastic and honest customer service, give cool little gifts and do cool favors for many people that have emailed them with problems and such (Gabe and others) AND make a shit ton of money to boot-did this *on purpose* then you are the one who needs to "posses some brain".

And the reason you state above doesn't even make any sense offhand (at least as related to allowing a hack or whatever it is you are claiming exactly) though regardless it's laughable if that's the best you can do with the likes of Activision, EA and Ubisoft in the industry. You know, publishers/devs who actually DO screw over their customers and deserve such ire...


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## John Doe (Nov 11, 2011)

Wrigleyvillain said:


> If you honestly think Valve-the shining example of how to be a great game developer, have a revolutionary business model, provide fantastic and honest customer service, give cool little gifts and do cool favors for many people that have emailed them (Gabe and others) AND make a shit ton of money to boot-did this *on purpose* then you are the one who needs to "posses some brain".



I'd call you a name but anyway, you certainly haven't used Steam as long as I did. Haven't gotten nailed on unworking software, messed up games and so on. But then again, those are mostly a thing of past. However I'll let those "fantastic and honest" customer service slip through. Good day sir.


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## Mr McC (Nov 11, 2011)

John Doe said:


> They knew AVP was going to break CS:S, regardless, they did it. They knew porting the game to new engine would disable some console commands and bhopping, still, they did it. Then they fixed what they broke *after* what has happened.
> 
> I think you need to posses some brain before you resort to a cheap attack, but at this rate I've no reason to believe you do.



John, as a firm advocate of conspiracy theories, a harsh critic of DRM and someone who was reticent when it came to using Steam for the first time, simply this: no.


----------



## John Doe (Nov 11, 2011)

Mr McC said:


> John, as a firm advocate of conspiracy theories, a harsh critic of DRM and someone who was reticent when it came to using Steam for the first time, simply this: no.



There's no "yes" or "no" to any of the statements made here. The situation is closed, so all we can do is to speculate over it.


----------



## Mr McC (Nov 11, 2011)

John Doe said:


> There's no "yes" or "no" to any of the statements made here. The situation is closed, so all we can do is to speculate over it.



That's merely speculation.


----------



## Wrigleyvillain (Nov 11, 2011)

John Doe said:


> I'd call you a name but anyway, you certainly haven't used Steam as long as I did. Haven't gotten nailed on unworking software, messed up games and so on. But then again, those are mostly a thing of past. However I'll let those "fantastic and honest" customer service slip through. Good day sir.



Since Day ONE. When it sucked. Sounds like you just need some better computer skills.


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## John Doe (Nov 11, 2011)

Wrigleyvillain said:


> Since Day ONE. When it sucked. Sounds like you just need some better computer skills.



Says the guy who calls Automatic Weapon Pricing and bunnyhops "hacks or whatever". Oh well.



Mr McC said:


> That's merely speculation.



Did I call YOUR post speculation? I said WE can only speculate over this. Since we don't have access to VALVe's content/master server, right? All you said was "no". So yes, your post wasn't speculation. It was just "opinion".


----------



## Coreinsanity (Nov 11, 2011)

John Doe said:


> Steam is a huge network, so I wouldn't just think of myself. Not everyone buys everything off Steam. I don't integrate my games to it (after my past experiences) like having to wait for an update or it not booting. I buy games outside of Steam, and just because you keep them all under one account, doesn't mean everyone else does. In fact, most people I see on the community have a few games tied to their account. It's not wrong to think of it that way.



That's still a pretty lacking reason.

First off, the number of people who would remake their account and purchase all of their stuff again is small, if not non-existant. It's much more likely those people will go to steam and get their account sorted out if they can't access it. Furthermore, they said the hackers had access to the database that contained your credit card information. Though encrypted, It's much more likely more people will delete their CC off of steam and leave steam because their CC information was exposed than it is for people to buy all their games again. "Hey, this company screwed up and got my CC information exposed, I'm going to buy crap from them again. They obviously deserve my money still" - Yeah, I'm not seeing it.

This isn't a publicity thing to get people, if anything this is a deterrent to using steam. I know what encryption is, and how their service works. I'm not worried, my information is one of millions and millions of users. But the less computer-savvy people out there might look at this and leave because they don't understand what's going on.

The fact that this information was exposed at all is bad and shouldn't be taken lightly. While I wouldn't up and cancel your CC just yet (Though I can't blame you if you do), I would watch your statement and news on this event to keep up to date.


----------



## Ahhzz (Nov 11, 2011)

John Doe said:


> Erm, bucks? New games bought = more money for them.




Who would open a new account based on the press that someone just hacked into the company you're considering buying from?? 




John Doe said:


> There will always be some. If someone can't access his account, he might think his account in hacked in this period. Before he can login back, he might just open a new account and buy a few games.



I think it's a pretty far stretch to think that the company was hacked, so the leaders decided to issue a press release saying that the hacking was WORSE than it really was, on the possibility that some user somewhere _might _be inclined to open a new account to replace his (money spent!!!) games, instead of just trying his password again, or resetting it with the provided tool, or even contacting Steam.... It could happen.... And Bobby Kotick could sell Blizz back to the employees, and Blizz and Bethesda could merge to form a Mega-ultra-Gaming Monolith called "Blizzthesda".... hmmm... liking the sound of that more and more...


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## Mr McC (Nov 11, 2011)

John Doe said:


> Did I call YOUR post speculation?



You did not.



John Doe said:


> I said WE can only speculate over this.



This appears to be correct, certainly in relation to the "we", but again, it may be just speculation on your part.




John Doe said:


> Since we don't have access to VALVe's content/master server, right?



There may be employees amongst us, it isn't safe here, I think it's Wrigley.




John Doe said:


> All you said was "no".



Ah, but it was a poignant no, a call to haul you back from the very precipice of collapse.



John Doe said:


> So yes, your post wasn't speculation. It was just "opinion".



in your opinion.


----------



## John Doe (Nov 11, 2011)

Coreinsanity said:


> First off, the number of people who would remake their account and purchase all of their stuff again is small, if not non-existant. It's much more likely those people will go to steam and get their account sorted out if they can't access it. Furthermore, they said the hackers had access to the database that contained your credit card information. Though encrypted, It's much more likely more people will delete their CC off of steam and leave steam because their CC information was exposed than it is for people to buy all their games again. "Hey, this company screwed up and got my CC information exposed, I'm going to buy crap from them again. They obviously deserve my money still" - Yeah, I'm not seeing it.
> 
> The fact that this information was exposed at all is bad and shouldn't be taken lightly. While I wouldn't up and cancel your CC just yet (Though I can't blame you if you do), I would watch your statement and news on this event to keep up to date.



First off, I know the so called "hacker"s. They're a bunch of kids that write off CS:S cheat packs (aimbots etc.) that get you VAC banned. The only thing they clearly got into is SPUF. Probably via an exploit. The forum, not Steam. No one has far managed to get into Steam itself, let alone these kids.

As for buying the game again, you don't have to use your CC. You can just buy it off the store and use the key. I'm not concerned about any of this. Even the way Gabe's message is written is cheesy. Like how he's "hacked and truly sorry" about it.



Mr McC said:


> You did not.
> 
> This appears to be correct, certainly in relation to the "we", but again, it may be just speculation on your part.



No, it's not. Read back the thread, this has been hashed out endlessly. People speculated like "it must be Anon" and such. Again, I repeat, WE can only speculate since we don't have info from the inside.



Mr McC said:


> There may be employees amongst us, it isn't safe here, I think it's Wrigley.



I think



Mr McC said:


> Ah, but it was a poignant no, a call to haul you back from the very precipice of collapse.
> 
> in your opinion.



you're spouting off nonsense to make yourself look right, fatty. You're being silly. Grow up.


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## Mr McC (Nov 11, 2011)

John Doe said:


> you're coming up with nonsense to make yourself look right, fatty. You're being silly. Grow up.



I am not coming up with nonsense to make myself look right, nor am I fat, although I have no objection to the term fatty. Insofar as being silly, I stand guilty as charged and will spare no effort in endeavouring to grow up. I extend my apologies.


----------



## Coreinsanity (Nov 11, 2011)

John Doe said:


> First off, I know the so called "hacker"s. They're a bunch of kids that write off CS:S cheat packs (aimbots etc.) that get you VAC banned. The only thing they clearly got into is SPUF. Probably via an exploit. The forum, not Steam. No one has far managed to get into Steam itself, let alone these kids.
> 
> As for buying the game again, you don't have to use your CC. You can just buy it off the store and use the key. I'm not concerned about any of this. Even the way Gabe's message is written is cheesy. Like how he's "hacked and truly sorry" about it.



Oh please. It doesn't matter who hacked the forum and whatever other database they managed to get in to. If they got to the CC information, which Valve said they could at least see (note, see, not download), Valve screwed up as far as security goes. That seems like a poor security design on their part if it was tied in any way to the forum or steam profile database directly.

As far as knowing who did it, prove it. Because their advertisement was on the forums? That doesn't mean anything. Some one else could have done it to draw attention to those people as a distraction. You don't know what happened, nor who hacked their database or what they really had access to. Unless, of course, you personally know these hackers? In which case I hope some one comes to question you soon.

I'm not concerned about them getting into "steam", however I think you need to define that term if you're going to continue to use it. The fact is none of us really has any idea how their network is laid out, for all we know they merged the tables containing the forum user data with the account data for some kind of "convenience". We don't know. It seems to me the CC/billing information should be on an internal server that is accessed only when purchasing a game or adding another payment method, and is only accessed through the/an internal steam server acting as a layer to separate the CC information from being directly accessible to the internet (Not some web application tied to a forum created by a third party). Until we know how it's laid out and what layers were broken into, we can't say they didn't get access to it. And to say otherwise is just foolish and and flies in the face of any good consumer security practice. You should be cautious, always. If it turns out to be some false alarm, great, some kids hacked the forum and I don't care. Otherwise, some one at Valve should have their butt on the line for dropping the ball. These companies shouldn't be lacking in security, anywhere. 

As for what the CEO says, I have no reason to believe you over him. If he says the encrypted CC information was exposed, why do I have any reason not to believe him? All this does it make negative hype for steam and create a deterrent for using it. Furthermore he didn't say sorry to us because he was hacked, he said sorry because HIS COMPANY (according to his own letter) caused our CC information to be exposed to an unauthorized third party. He was saying sorry to the community for the company failing to do part of it's job, keeping our information secure.

No, you don't have to use a CC to buy a game off of steam. That's not what you said, though. If I went to the store and bought a CD key it kind of defeats your theory of "They are hyping it so valve gets more money from people buying all their games again". Furthermore, I can't think of anyone who would purchase all of their stuff again from a company who screwed up.  Seriously, that's some backwards logic. "Oh, their insecure and won't help me get my account back? Sure! I'll buy all my stuff off of your service again" - totally.


----------



## John Doe (Nov 11, 2011)

Coreinsanity said:


> Oh please. It doesn't matter who hacked the forum and whatever other database they managed to get in to. If they got to the CC information, which Valve said they could at least see (note, see, not download), Valve screwed up as far as security goes. That seems like a poor security design on their part if it was tied in any way to the forum or steam profile database directly.



Look, the forum and Steam itself have _nothing_ to do with each other. SPUF is a craptastic forum where people say whatever they want with the mods (volunteer "user" mods) do what they want. Workers from VALVe don't read or care about it. It's a forum left for _users_ to create their own feedback. However, sadly, it instead is full of locked threads and banned people due to insults/trolls, "I'm VAC BANned!" threads and whatever you name it.

As such, VALVe didn't "screw up". Steam is driven off different content servers from all across the globe, unlike the forum which is a vBulletin ran off Washington from VALVe HQ (ping it/look at Steam settings).

You don't know what you're talking about.



Coreinsanity said:


> As far as knowing who did it, prove it. Because their advertisement was on the forums? That doesn't mean anything. Some one else could have done it to draw attention to those people as a distraction. You don't know what happened, nor who hacked their database or what they really had access to. *Unless, of course, you personally know these hackers? In which case I hope some one comes to question you soon.*



That's a pretty absurdist statement... also, I assumed it's fkn0wned themselves to take attention (buy their private hacks). It was worded that way, yes, it may be someone else, BUT, Steam is running perfect and please read Gabe's message again. He says "might be/just in case, and we think". He's not sure and is assuming. So it's not to be relied on.



Coreinsanity said:


> I can't think of anyone who would purchase all of their stuff again from a company who screwed up.  Seriously, that's some backwards logic. "Oh, their insecure and won't help me get my account back? Sure! I'll buy all my stuff off of your service again" - totally.



Like I said, not everyone thinks that way. Lots of people go on about cheating, getting VAC banned then buying a new game again. VAC for example uses delayed bans (a few weeks) which makes doing that act possible. As such, it's not unnormal to think of some people to buy their games again. The majority of people are uninformed. They'd think like; this account is banned, gone. Have to open a new one. Whenever they can't login in such case. You're thinking of yourself, not the average majority.


----------



## erocker (Nov 11, 2011)

Dear Gabe, 


Release Half Life 3 soon. All will be forgiven.


Love, 

Erocker.


----------



## n-ster (Nov 11, 2011)

Who in their right mind would abandon their account to buy another game *FROM THE PLACE THAT "LOST" THEIR ACCOUNT? IF ANYTHING THEY'D LOSE CUSTOMERS*. At first, I'd try to resolve the issue with Steam etc... If I didn't care for the account I just wouldn't go to Steam at risk of losing the game I just bought.

Your theory has not been thought through, and is quite an accusation you are doing against steam for a few bucks.

Seriously, calm down the paranoia about conspiracies. No, by defending steam I'm not secretly working for that you make them 10$


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## John Doe (Nov 11, 2011)

n-ster said:


> Who in their right mind would abandon their account to buy another game *FROM THE PLACE THAT "LOST" THEIR ACCOUNT? IF ANYTHING THEY'D LOSE CUSTOMERS*. At first, I'd try to resolve the issue with Steam etc... If I didn't care for the account I just wouldn't go to Steam at risk of losing the game I just bought.
> 
> Your theory has not been thought through, and is quite an accusation you are doing against steam for a few bucks.
> 
> Seriously, calm down the paranoia about conspiracies. No, by defending steam I'm not secretly working for that you make them 10$



A bunch of people would. The majority aren't smart, and people would buy it again to play the game they want to play. So it's not easy to just lose a customer right away. People will most the time come back to open a new account when theirs get stolen/banned. You're suggesting someone to either play on their account or not game at all (given it's mostly Steam-based games).

So it might land them more than $10 till this issue gets resolved. A theory is all I can make from this point.


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## n-ster (Nov 11, 2011)

K so I buy a game from you, and it works for 1 month... then it stops one day. That day I HAVE to buy another game, so I decide to buy from you again? Damn you under estimate Joe Everyman more than Mr McC over estimates him lol

And can't most access their steam accounts? I can... Most will try more than once to access it and will get through anyways...

you seriously have a flawed theory. It's like saying that a hot girl wants to bang you and marry you or be your sex slave because she smiled at you and asked what you wanted at McD...


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## Coreinsanity (Nov 11, 2011)

John Doe said:


> Look, the forum and Steam itself have _nothing_ to do with each other. SPUF is a craptastic forum where people say whatever they want with the mods (volunteer "user" mods) do what they want. Workers from VALVe don't read or care about it. It's a forum left for _users_ to create their own feedback. However, sadly, it instead is full of locked threads and banned people due to insults/trolls, "I'm VAC BANned!" threads and whatever you name it.
> 
> As such, VALVe didn't "screw up". Steam is driven off different content servers from all across the globe, unlike the forum which is a vBulletin ran off Washington from VALVe HQ (ping it/look at Steam settings).
> 
> ...



Really? 



> We learned that intruders obtained access to a Steam database in addition to the forums. This database contained information including user names, hashed and salted passwords, game purchases, email addresses, billing addresses and encrypted credit card information. We do not have evidence that encrypted credit card numbers or personally identifying information were taken by the intruders, or that the protection on credit card numbers or passwords was cracked. We are still investigating.


http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/

Also, I don't give a rats butt about the steam forums. I have never even read it. And like I said, if all that was hacked was some forum database, I wouldn't care. But based on what I'm reading on their page, it sounds like they were able to also access the database which contains user and CC information (Though encrypted).

It makes no sense for Valve to admit credit card information was exposed when it really wasn't. They ARE responsible for keeping our information secure, and if what they say is true then they failed at that. As unlikely as it is that anyone was able to copy the information, let alone decrypt it, Valve still screwed up if it was exposed (Especially if it was by the people you seem to think did it).

It's a perfectly valid attack to draw attention to one attack meanwhile another, more serious, attack takes place unnoticed due to the distraction.

You do realize that the *THOUGHT* of credit card information and identity theft happening because of a company, and a company admitting it, could mean a MASSIVE lost in business for that company due to a lack of trust from consumers. If I don't trust them and don't think they will keep my information safe, I am not going to buy a game from them.



John Doe said:


> Like I said, not everyone thinks that way. Lots of people go on about cheating, getting VAC banned then buying a new game again. VAC for example uses delayed bans (a few weeks) which makes doing that act possible. As such, it's not unnormal to think of some people to buy their games again. The majority of people are uninformed. They'd think like; this account is banned, gone. Have to open a new one. Whenever they can't login in such case. You're thinking of yourself, not the average majority.



That's different, that's people with too much money throwing it away for the chance to cheat. What I am saying is the average users who would quit because of their information being insecure would outweigh the number of people buying their games off of steam after they lose access to their account, especially if they contact steam to get it back and it fails. I'm not talking about people who got banned, I'm talking about honest people who don't cheat forgetting their information. If Valve doesn't help them get their account back, I doubt enough of them are going to purchase their stuff again to make this a valid scheme from Valve.


I'm not saying people wont buy their stuff again, I'm saying there aren't enough people who will to make Valve admit to their CC information even possibly being exposed when it wasn't. Seriously, I don't know where you come up with half of this. Even if it wasn't, and even if they say it MIGHT have happened instead of "it did" it's still a big deal and not something a company is going to admit to unless it REALLY happened or there is a risk of it having happened. I'm argueing against what looked like you saying Valve is over hyping this to the proportion of CC information being exposed so people buy more stuff from them, that makes no sense at all.


----------



## John Doe (Nov 11, 2011)

Coreinsanity said:


> http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/
> 
> It makes no sense for Valve to admit credit card information was exposed when it really wasn't. They ARE responsible for keeping our information secure, and if what they say is true then they failed at that. As unlikely as it is that anyone was able to copy the information, let alone decrypt it, Valve still screwed up if it was exposed (Especially if it was by the people you seem to think did it).
> 
> It's a perfectly valid attack to draw attention to one attack meanwhile another, more serious, attack takes place unnoticed due to the distraction.



Regardless, it might well be a joke. VALVe has done similar things (yes, on a big scale/pointless) before. While you may think it'd affect their reputation, it still keeps strong as Steam is a proptietery standart. We still don't know what's going to come out of this.



Coreinsanity said:


> I'm not saying people wont buy their stuff again, I'm saying there aren't enough people who will to make Valve admit to their CC information even possibly being exposed when it wasn't. Seriously, I don't know where you come up with half of this. Even if it wasn't, and even if they say it MIGHT have happened instead of "it did" it's still a big deal and not something a company is going to admit to unless it REALLY happened or there is a risk of it having happened. I'm argueing against what looked like you saying Valve is over hyping this to the proportion of CC information being exposed so people buy more stuff from them, that makes no sense at all.



It does make sense. Think of it, say you lost your account, what would you do? You'll be forced to open a new one with the thought of your old one getting hacked. Don't give me that bla bla "money trap! I wouldn't buy into the hacked system again". I'm pretty damn sure you would if you lost your games, and *want* to play them again. Yes, it's not a common situation. But the possibility is there.


----------



## Mr McC (Nov 11, 2011)

I changed my password and appear to have lost all saved games on Revenge of the Titans. This is catastrophic. Anybody know how to fix this and why would the password change affect it? You have to sign up to ROTT in-game and I was prompted to do so after changing the Steam account password. Normally you are not required to sign in once the initial registration is made.


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## Coreinsanity (Nov 11, 2011)

John Doe said:


> Regardless, it might well be a joke. VALVe has done similar things (yes, on a big scale/pointless) before. While you may think it'd affect their reputation, it still keeps strong as Steam is a proptietery standart. We still don't know what's going to come out of this.



Actually, I doubt it's a joke. If it is, then great.  No real danger.

However, as a consumer I would be foolish to take it as a joke. And honestly, most companies don't joke about credit card information getting leaked. First off, they aren't going to be investigating it by themselves. If there is the potential for stolen credit card information, the government IS going to get involved. Steam/Valve doesn't want that, nor would they joke about it.




John Doe said:


> It does make sense. Think of it, say you lost your account, what would you do? You'll be forced to open a new one with the thought of your old one getting hacked. Don't give me that bla bla "money trap! I wouldn't buy into the hacked system again". I'm pretty damn sure you would if you lost your games, and *want* to play them again. Yes, it's not a common situation. But the possibility is there.



Screw that, there is no way I would pay a company that got my credit card information exposed to a third party and wouldn't help me recover my account. I would get them from the store, direct2drive or one of the other locations. I wouldn't buy them from the company that couldn't protect my information.

You're the one calling them a money trap, I'm saying if they were insecure enough to protect my data then it makes them look bad and I won't buy from them. Not because they are a money trap, but because they couldn't keep my data safe. I think DLC is a money trap, not them. And I don't buy DLC either (With the exception of fallout NV because it was all on sale one day for really cheap)

Edit: Furthermore, I wouldn't buy the games again. At that point, I would just say "screw it" and find something else to do. I can't think of any reason why I would buy something I already paid for, and lost due to a company not securing my data. To add to that, I can't think of any reason why I would buy the games from said company even if I were going to buy them again.


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## John Doe (Nov 11, 2011)

Coreinsanity said:


> Screw that, there is no way I would pay a company that got my credit card information exposed to a third party and wouldn't help me recover my account. I would get them from the store, direct2drive or one of the other locations. I wouldn't buy them from the company that couldn't protect my information.



Steam exclusives



Coreinsanity said:


> Edit: Furthermore, I wouldn't buy the games again. At that point, I would just say "screw it" and find something else to do. I can't think of any reason why I would buy something I already paid for, and lost due to a company not securing my data. To add to that, I can't think of any reason why I would buy the games from said company even if I were going to buy them again.



if it was a game you were just having fun playing, you would. In fact, a thrilling game like CS:S (back then; 5 years ago) I would have bought it more than once if needed. Your points are valid, however you don't seem to have much experience with this system. Back in the day, I played Source games a couple thousand hours. So I for one know how it rolls.


----------



## qubit (Nov 11, 2011)

erocker said:


> Dear Gabe,
> 
> 
> Release Half Life 3 soon. All will be forgiven.
> ...



You know, it wouldn't surprise me if he did just that and either gifted it to current Steam members, or sold it cheaply to them.

That's assuming the game is anywhere near finished of course...


----------



## Coreinsanity (Nov 11, 2011)

John Doe said:


> Steam exclusives
> 
> If it was a game you were just having fun playing, you would. In fact, a thrilling game like CS:S (back then; 5 years ago) I would have bought it more than once if needed. Your points are valid, however you don't seem to have much experience with this system. Back in the day, I played Source games a couple thousand hours. So I know how it rolls.




I honestly find the notion of me buying the games more than once funny. I have been around since about the time steam started. I got banned once because they claimed I shared my CD key (I didn't even know it had a CD key, I was 10 or 11 years old and as far as I was concerned I was just playing my games and then lolbanned for no apparent reason. They wouldn't reason with me or anything.)

You think I got my parents to buy the games again? Heck no(edit: To clarify, I didn't even ask them to buy it again), you think I bought them now that I'm older? Heck no. A friend of mine bought them for me, I told him what happened and not to do it,but he did it anyway. His money so whatever. Sure, I buy stuff on there now, but there is no way I'm going to pay them for something I already bought. I have more control over what I do and I care about my money enough that I will quit playing games before I do that, I'm sorry if you can't do that but that doesn't mean I can't.


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## John Doe (Nov 11, 2011)

Coreinsanity said:


> I honestly find the notion of me buying the games more than once funny. I have been around since about the time steam started. I got banned once because they claimed I shared my CD key (I didn't even know it had a CD key, I was 10 or 11 years old and as far as I was concerned I was just playing my games and then lolbanned for no apparent reason. They wouldn't reason with me or anything.)



Firstly, I'd like to say you're showing your age. That said, you can't get banned for "sharing your CD key". That's nonsense since your _key_ is registered in the system; only once for product activation. You don't get "lolbanned" for no reason either. It's logged and the only reason someone gets banned is cheating due VAC. Other than that, they disable your account if they find out you're cracking (non-Steam). You can use one account on more than one instances, it'll just log the other user out saying "Steam ID is in use". It's doable as far as it goes. You either cheated or cracked.



Coreinsanity said:


> You think I got my parents to buy the games again? Heck no(edit: To clarify, I didn't even ask them to buy it again), you think I bought them now that I'm older? Heck no. A friend of mine bought them for me, I told him what happened and not to do it,but he did it anyway. His money so whatever. Sure, I buy stuff on there now, but there is no way I'm going to pay them for something I already bought. I have more control over what I do and I care about my money enough that I will quit playing games before I do that, I'm sorry if you can't do that but that doesn't mean I can't.



You certainly would and still would have. I'm sure if I got your account right now, you'd be begging for me to give it back kid. Haha.


----------



## Coreinsanity (Nov 11, 2011)

John Doe said:


> Firstly, I'd like to say you're showing your age. That said, you can't get banned for "sharing your CD key". That's nonsense since your _key_ is registered in the system; only once for product activation. You don't get "lolbanned" for no reason either. It's logged and the only reason someone gets banned is cheating due VAC. Other than that, they disable your account if they find out you're cracking (non-Steam). You can use one account on more than one instances, it'll just log the other user out saying "Steam ID is in use". It's doable as far as it goes. You either cheated or cracked.



Duh. They thought I was trying to pirate or share games. That's why they banned me, and I was most certainly not. As I said, more than likely my account got hacked or the computer was compromised. Either way, I wasn't that old and didn't know a whole lot.



John Doe said:


> You certainly would and still would have. I'm sure if I got your account right now, you'd be begging for me to give it back kid. Haha.



No, I most certainly would not. If you got my account, I would be contacting steam to get it back or get it banned. Why would I go to you?

Furthermore, if they banned me I'm not going to waste a couple hundred USD to buy games again.

If you honestly want to keep believing that I'm going to buy games I already paid for, then have fun with it. I don't care about games that much, honestly I'm starting to think you're just trying to defend these points because you were one of the idiots who paid for all your games again. Edit: Also, I'm done arguing something that's off topic with you, and quite frankly pointless for me to argue with you about. You're obviously going to continue saying "Hurr yes you would".

Also, please, don't waste your time trying to make me angry. You won't, I have dealt with internet trolls and stupid people for a good 12 years.


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## John Doe (Nov 11, 2011)

Coreinsanity said:


> Duh. They thought I was trying to pirate or share games. That's why they banned me, and I was most certainly not. As I said, more than likely my account got hacked or the computer was compromised. Either way, I wasn't that old and didn't know a whole lot.



They don't ban you for trying to "share" your game. In any way, you don't know what you're talking about. Dufus! 



Coreinsanity said:


> No, I most certainly would not. If you got my account, I would be contacting steam to get it back or get it banned. Why would I go to you?



Do you even know they don't give crap? If your account is gone, it's gone. If I changed all your details, you won't be able to take it back. And you can't get it "banned" either. VAC is automated. Period.



Coreinsanity said:


> you were one of the idiots who paid for all your games again. Edit: Also, I'm done arguing something that's off topic with you, and quite frankly pointless for me to argue with you about. You're obviously going to continue saying "Hurr yes you would".



Get real.



Coreinsanity said:


> Also, please, don't waste your time trying to make me angry. You won't, I have dealt with internet trolls and stupid people for a good 12 years.



Yet, according to you, you were 11 something some years ago? And now you're pulling back your BS? Guess this was "Plan B" eh? Internet tough guy. Run along...


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## Coreinsanity (Nov 11, 2011)

John Doe said:


> They don't ban you for trying to "share" your game. In any way, you don't know what you're talking about. Dufus!



Right, keep thinking game companies don't care if I share a CD key steam uses.



John Doe said:


> Do you even know they don't give crap? If your account is gone, it's gone. If I changed all your details, you won't be able to take it back. And you can't get it "banned" either. VAC is automated. Period.



I'm not talking about VAC. VAC doesn't have anything to do with my account getting hacked or CD keys, it's Valve ANTI CHEAT, not anti piracy. VAC isn't what would ban me, they would if they detected an odd amount of people logging into my steam account or a bunch of people using a CD key for a game on my account that happens to have one (eg: UT3 and Fable 3 ask me for CD keys when I first start them that install, if I recall).



John Doe said:


> Get real.



So that's basically a yes, you paid for your games twice.





John Doe said:


> Yet, according to you, you were 11 something some years ago? And now you're pulling back your BS? Guess this was "Plan B" eh? Internet tough guy. Run along...




I honestly don't understand what you're saying or are confused with. Aside from the failed attempt at calling me an "internet tough guy" what you're saying makes no sense. You're the one attempting to make me angry, aka "Trolling". I am not being an "internet tough guy", I am not threatening anyone or even calling you names. Unless of course you paid for all your games twice, in which case yes, you are an idiot.


Try again, "dufus", 
Way to show your age, "kid"


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## Mr McC (Nov 11, 2011)

Was somebody passing out the laughing gas? What has any of this to do with the topic of the thread?


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## Coreinsanity (Nov 11, 2011)

Mr McC said:


> Was somebody passing out the laughing gas? What has any of this to do with the topic of the thread?



Hey, I shut him up about his "steam is just trying to get people to buy their games all over again" garbage


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## John Doe (Nov 11, 2011)

Coreinsanity said:


> Right, keep thinking game companies don't care if I share a CD key steam uses.



You can't _share_ a Steam CD-key. Source keys and keys for other games are seperated, and can't get your account deactivated. Keys for Source games are logged once in your account never to be re-used again. As for the keys for other games, Steam doesn't have anything to do with them. It just holds the game GCF files and boots it up.



Coreinsanity said:


> I'm not talking about VAC. VAC doesn't have anything to do with my account getting hacked, it's Valve ANTI CHEAT, not anti piracy. VAC isn't what would ban me, they would if they detected an odd amount of people logging into my steam account or a bunch of people using a CD key for a game on my account that happens to have one (eg: UT3 and Fable 3 ask me for CD keys when I first start them that install, if I recall).



Such thing doesn't exist. They don't deactivate your account for OTHER games (read non-Source). Only Source games are completely tied to your account. Steam just holds the other games to launch them.



Coreinsanity said:


> So that's basically a yes, you paid for your games twice.



Sorry, not going to bother.



Coreinsanity said:


> I honestly don't understand what you're saying or are confused with. Aside from the failed attempt at calling me an "internet tough guy" what you're saying makes no sense. You're the one attempting to make me angry, aka "Trolling". I am not being an "internet tough guy", I am not threatening anyone or even calling you names. Unless of course you paid for all your games twice, in which case yes, you are an idiot.



You're the one that doesn't understand anything that's being spoken here. You don't know what a GCF cache is or how the platform works. You don't have a grasp knowledge of the subject in hand; only throwing up idiotic statements like "using a CD-key twice" to get yourself "banned" (correction, deactivated) which doesn't happen. So I suggest you to move on.



Coreinsanity said:


> Try again, "dufus",
> Way to show your age, "kid"



Way to go buddy. Liked what you did there? Honestly, can you be more deceiving?


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## Coreinsanity (Nov 11, 2011)

John Doe said:


> You can't _share_ a Steam CD-key. Source keys and keys for other games are seperated, and can't get your account deactivated. Keys for Source games are logged once in your account never to be re-used again. As for the keys for other games, Steam doesn't have anything to do with them. It just holds the game GCF files and boots it up.



After doing some math (Yeah, fail on my part. I have moved a bunch and it seemed longer) it looks like I was banned about 6-7 years ago. I have been dealing with people like you since I was about 11, though (I'm 23 now).

Also, I'm just telling you what their support staff told me when I contracted them about it. Maybe they were just BSing? Who knows now, but the point was I got banned and never baught the games that were on it again. 



John Doe said:


> Such thing doesn't exist. They don't deactivate your account for OTHER games (read non-Source). Only Source games are completely tied to your account. Steam just holds the other games to launch them.



This was back in mid 2004, I believe. All I had were source based games.



John Doe said:


> You're the one that doesn't understand anything that's being spoken here. You don't know what a GCF cache is, or how the platform works. You don't have a grasp knowledge of the subject in hand; you only throw up statements like "using a CD-key twice" to get yourself "banned" (correction, deactivated), which doesn't happen. So I suggest you to move on.



I never said anything about using a CD key twice. I said I wouldn't buy the games twice like you did, even if I lost my account.



John Doe said:


> Way to go buddy. Liked what you did there? Can you be more deceiving?



How was I being deceiving?


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## John Doe (Nov 11, 2011)

Coreinsanity said:


> After doing some math (Yeah, fail on my part. I have moved a bunch and it seemed longer) it looks like I was banned about 6-7 years ago. *I have been dealing with people like you since I was about 11, though (I'm 23 now).*



Having fun are we?



Coreinsanity said:


> Also, I'm just telling you what their support staff told me when I contracted them about it. Maybe they were just BSing? Who knows now, but the point was I got banned and never baught the games that were on it again.



You don't get unbanned. In the history of Steam, not a single account got unbanned (for one guy). The system is completely automated. As for deactivating, it doesn't happen unless the hacker leaves obvious proof in his back (not change details that would give him away). Even then, they mostly don't bother with millions of people. So if someone gets your account and changes all the info, you lose it.



Coreinsanity said:


> I never said anything about using a CD key twice. I said I wouldn't buy the games twice like you did, even if I lost my account.



You talked about _sharing_ CD-key, which is nonsense since it's impossible to do. Once you log in a Source key, it gives you the game the code belongs to, and becomes unuseable. Yeah, you can do it in other games. But those don't have anything to do with your Steam account itself. Steam just holds them.

And where did I say *I* bought them twice? Show me proof that I said it. You can't, cause I didn't. I only used it as an example. It's you, you have been assuming ever since. Then changing your arguement when proven wrong. The burden of proof is on you.



Coreinsanity said:


> How was I being deceiving?



Like they say, GIGO (look that up).


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## Coreinsanity (Nov 11, 2011)

John Doe said:


> Having fun are we?



Quite a bit, thanks 



John Doe said:


> You don't get unbanned. In the history of Steam, not a single account got unbanned (for one guy). The system is completely automated. As for deactivating, it doesn't happen unless the hacker leaves obvious proof in his back (not change details that would give him away). Even then, they mostly don't bother with millions of people. So if someone gets your account and changes all the info, you lose it.



I never said I got unbanned. I was saying I never bought the games again, a friend of mine (against my advise) bought them again for me. I told him what happened, but he did it anyway, not me. I am perfectly fine never using steam again if I lose my account, like I said I'll just go to the store or direct2drive. And I don't care about steam exclusives, the games I play (Skyrim, UT3, Fallout, Borderlands) aren't exclusively on steam.



John Doe said:


> You talked about _sharing_ CD-key, which is nonsense since it's impossible to do. Once you log in a Source key, it gives you the game the code belongs to, and becomes unuseable. Yeah, you can do it in other games. But they don't have anything to do with your Steam account itself. Steam just holds them.



Again, telling you what they told me when I asked why I was banned/deactivated/whatever other term you want to call it.



John Doe said:


> And where did I say *I* bought them twice? Show me proof that I said it. You can't, cause I didn't. It's you, you have been assuming it ever since. I only used it as an example. And changing your arguement when proven wrong. The burden of proof is on you.



I have no burden of proof, nor do you. I honestly don't care if you believe me or not, nor do I care if you prove anything. And where did I change my argument, aside from miscalculating how long ago it was?

To answer your question, I am assuming so because you are so heavily defending something as asinine as "They are claiming what they are to get people to buy all their games again thinking their accounts where hacked", which honestly if you bought them all twice I couldn't blame you for needing to justify it and pass the blame off on the company rather than you.



John Doe said:


> Like they say, GIGO (look that up).



Don't need to. I was asking in what way I was being deceiving, because I was not.


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## John Doe (Nov 11, 2011)

Coreinsanity said:


> I never said I got unbanned. I was saying I never bought the games again, a friend of mine (against my advise) bought them again for me. I told him what happened, but he did it anyway, not me. I am perfectly fine never using steam again if I lose my account, like I said I'll just go to the store or direct2drive. And I don't care about steam exclusives, the games I play (Skyrim, UT3, Fallout, Borderlands) aren't exclusively on steam.



Well then that's not the case I was talking about. I relate using Steam to Steam exclusives, since, like you said, it's better off buying rest of the games from other sources and not tie them to Steam. Which is why I went on talking about buying Steam games all over again (in case of an account loss).



Coreinsanity said:


> I have no burden of proof, nor do you. I honestly don't care if you believe me or not. And where did I change my argument, aside from miscalculating how long ago it was?



Changes of a valid, legitamate account getting closed is low that you really can't expect someone else to believe it. Even if it did happen, I'd still think you either cheated or cracked. Because the majority of account bans/deactivations happen that way. Either that or someone else got your account (which is what you're saying).



Coreinsanity said:


> To answer your question, I am assuming so because you are so heavily defending something as asinine as "They are claiming what they are to get people to buy all their games again thinking their accounts where hacked", which honestly if you bought them all twice I couldn't blame you for needing to justify it and pass the blame off on the company rather than you.



No, I didn't. Why with a proper mind would I do such thing, especially given I spent days on Steam and Source games back then? What I'm saying is someone silly can do it, and in some cases, you don't have to be silly to buy them again. You just want to play again (now I'm not to say play Source games at this time and date, they aren't fun like they used to - that is if you played in time). But back then, people would have bought these addicting games (CS:S etc.) more than once just to play it all day long. Not to wait with the hopes of logging in to their old account.



Coreinsanity said:


> Don't need to. I was asking in what way I was being deceiving, because I was not.



You changed arguements (not just calculation) but anyway, you claim not to have done it. Like I said, let's move along.


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## Coreinsanity (Nov 12, 2011)

John Doe said:


> Well then that's not the case I was talking about. I relate using Steam to Steam exclusives, since, like you said, it's better off buying rest of the games from other sources and not tie them to Steam. Which is why I went on talking about buying Steam games all over again (in case of an account loss).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have to be quite honest with you, I think a lot of this was a misunderstanding of one thing lol. Steam exclusives. I can see why some one would buy their accounts again if they wanted to play HL2 or something similar, yes. Yeah, I was strictly talking games in general. However, if steam did manage to get my CC information exposed, and my account lost, I would more than likely take the loss and move onto other things. I am one of the people who if I had my account hacked in WoW and got banned because the person who hacked it spammed gold advertisements, and Blizzard didn't fix it, I would just quit the game and find something else (I am 23 and have spent around half of my life [12 years] gaming, since an old MMOFPS called Neocron, to CS/HL/etc, to now WoW / EVE Online / Skyrim).

Also, the chances are remote, that's why I still buy stuff off of steam with the new account a friend of mine bought me and have had no problems so far. And since then I have learned a lot more about computers (networking/security/webdesign [specifically PHP backends to sites]).

I don't recall changing my arguments, however. We can move on, but if you pointed it out I would be happy to clarify and/or retract it (I really don't like contradicting myself or changing my arguments, nor do I ever mean to unless some one changes my mind). I have edited my post, but that was to correct or reword something to more match what I was thinking but that's all I remember doing.


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## Undead46 (Nov 12, 2011)

I don't quite understand one thing...

They say Steam accounts weren't compromised as far as they're aware of, but how did they get game purchases and CC info? That information is tied in with steam accounts, not forum accounts.

I'm confused! :/


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## n-ster (Nov 12, 2011)

Undead46 said:


> I don't quite understand one thing...
> 
> They say Steam accounts weren't compromised as far as they're aware of, but how did they get game purchases and CC info? That information is tied in with steam accounts, not forum accounts.
> 
> I'm confused! :/



I asked basically the same thing and apparently they might have gone as far as the Steam info, but it was protected so even if they got some there is still the security measure that probably won't be broken anyways


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## qubit (Nov 12, 2011)

n-ster said:


> I asked basically the same thing and apparently they might have gone as far as the Steam info, but it was protected so even if they got some there is still the security measure that probably won't be broken anyways



Yes, it sounds like it was properly encrypted and the criminals don't have the keys to decrypt it, which would keep us safe (hopefully).


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## cool_recep (Nov 17, 2011)

Their forums are down again. I told them to upgrade but they removed my topic....


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