# Games Under-Performing, Unknown Culprit, Proves to be a Challenge



## TwinDenis (Jan 22, 2016)

Hi so I wanted to ask if I can and if I should upgrade for an
"Seagate 2TB SSHD Desktop SSHD Serial ATA III Hybrid hard drive"
I want to use my pc for gaming as well, so I need faster load times, I now have issue with stuttering in games when loading assets like AI spawn or other components like vfx, so yeah. I dont want to buy an ssd because of the $/gb cost, I would like to stick with in between solution to play games and have storage, but play games with performance.
Here My specs:
Gtx 980
Mobo: dell precision t3600 Model:08HPGT
Cpu: intel xeon e5-1620 3.6ghz.
Ram: 8gb. 4x2gb sticks.
OS: Windows 10 Pro 64bit.


Attention: Subject changed, 
To game stutter/choppy framerates and underperformance on Workstation.


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## Kursah (Jan 22, 2016)

SSHD will help with OS booting and that's about it. It might slightly speed up commonly used programs, but I cannot say it's worth the price over a standard 2TB HDD. If it is cheaper, get it. If not go with a standard HDD.

Honestly if you could get an SSD in your price range, say a 250GB, use that for OS + few games, and use a 1TB drive for other games and storage, you'd be set.

Other users may also suggest getting a cheap SSD and using that as a cache in Windows for your standard HDD to speed up performance, which works as well...but you won't be using the SSD for actual storage, just caching.

That SSHD will not help you with gaming vs a standard HDD, you won't notice a difference unless the SSHD is 7200RPM and your current HDD is 5400RPM...then you'll get a little response boost, but even that might not be a big deal...

An SSD is really the way to go if you want fast loading, and minimize hitching from loading and have a faster overall system experience...


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## TwinDenis (Jan 22, 2016)

Kursah said:


> SSHD will help with OS booting and that's about it. It might slightly speed up commonly used programs, but I cannot say it's worth the price over a standard 2TB HDD. If it is cheaper, get it. If not go with a standard HDD.
> 
> Honestly if you could get an SSD in your price range, say a 250GB, use that for OS + few games, and use a 1TB drive for other games and storage, you'd be set.
> 
> ...


I have a st200DM001-1CH1 HDD now and when assets load I get lag or stutter, non smooth render, its also at 3gb/s according to dell, I dont know more specs about it, also, the price for a WD HDD Black 2tb is 141euros where the price for this specific model is at 100euros, its 41euros cheaper but have no idea why, anyway, I cannot effort both hdd and ssd for now, also I get hard pagefaults which leads me to believe the culprit in my games is my HDD, since ram is okay, I look into getting the best hdd for my games to work properly.


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## Kursah (Jan 22, 2016)

How do you know RAM is okay? How have you tested it? How do you know the drive is the issue?

If you're getting hard pagefaults, that's usually a RAM issue iirc. I guess that depends on what you're reporting to us as hard pagefaults.

The best HDD is an SSD if you need speed...and better for games if you want fast loading and instant responses. If you have space, get a cheap SSD now and use it for caching to your current HDD 

As-far-as what you can and cannot afford, I still can't suggest an SSHD unless it is cheaper than the standard HDD model in the same size (2TB). Download Speccy, CrystalDiskInfo or similar to get more info about your hard drive that you have now.

An SSHD will not improve gaming performance enough to be worth any extra cost over a standard HDD.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 22, 2016)

Kursah said:


> How do you know RAM is okay? How have you tested it? How do you know the drive is the issue?
> 
> If you're getting hard pagefaults, that's usually a RAM issue iirc. I guess that depends on what you're reporting to us as hard pagefaults.
> 
> ...


I have it investigated, its not ram, check this http://linustechtips.com/main/topic...e-when-loading-assets-latencymon-dpc-checker/
now as for the part of HDD VS SSHD, yes, it is cheaper than the HDD, but it depends on the version, on what I saw, it is worth it, but I was asking if it will make difference not from another HDD but from the one I use now.

you can check for more info about the issue on the link above, my current HDD is said to run at 3gb/s I get non-smooth renders, I stutter on games when mobs spawn or a character is selected for example and the game loads the character.


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## BarbaricSoul (Jan 22, 2016)

I have that exact SSHD in my main system. Honestly, I can't say I noticed a huge difference in loading times going from a high-end HD like a WD Black to this SSHD. The SSD part is used for caching, not as an actual SSD, much the same as the procedure Kursah was referring to. Honestly, as a owner of the SSHD you are looking at, just get an SSD. $150 USD will get you a 500 GB Samsung 850 EVO SSD. You want the best performance, you have to spend money.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 22, 2016)

BarbaricSoul said:


> I have that exact SSHD in my main system. Honestly, I can't say I noticed a huge difference in loading times going from a high-end HD like a WD Black to this SSHD. The SSD part is used for caching, not as an actual SSD, much the same as the procedure Kursah was referring to. Honestly, as a owner of the SSHD you are looking at, just get an SSD. $150 USD will get you a 500 GB Samsung 850 EVO SSD. You want the best performance, you have to spend money.


again, its not about performance, it is about the game working correctly, it stutters, I cannot play in certain games due to that.


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## Batou1986 (Jan 22, 2016)

You need more ram before worrying about hdd causing stutter 8gb is pretty low and the 4x2 configuration is not ideal.

Also what game is stuttering ? sometimes its just bad game design and not something you can fix by upgrading.

The 3gb/s stat you are talking is the maximum interface speed of of the SATA ports a mechanical hdd will never get anywhere near 3gb/s more like 100 mb/s


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## TwinDenis (Jan 22, 2016)

Batou1986 said:


> You need more ram before worrying about hdd causing stutter 8gb is pretty low and the 4x2 configuration is not ideal.
> 
> Also what game is stuttering ? sometimes its just bad game design and not something you can fix by upgrading.


all games, even sc2, league of legends, smite, other offline games, heroes of the storm.
I dont have the money to experiment around my components.


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## BarbaricSoul (Jan 22, 2016)

I get no stuttering if that's what you're asking. That's playing any of the CoD games, all the Battlefield games, Titanfall, Crysis (1,2, and 3), World of Tanks/Warplanes/Warship, Borderlands 2, Wolfenstien, Metro 2033, and Star Wars Battlefront, plus a few others I can't think of right now.

What games are you playing? Opps, never mind, I see above now.


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## Kursah (Jan 22, 2016)

> again, its not about performance...



*BELOW IS FROM THE OP*...



TwinDenis said:


> *I want to use my pc for gaming as well, so I need faster load times,* I now have issue with stuttering in games when loading assets like AI spawn or other components like vfx, so yeah. I dont want to buy an ssd because of the $/gb cost, I would like to stick with in between solution to play games and have storage, *but play games with performance.*



But it *IS* about performance with your statements already made. You're trying to resolve several issues here. You want a faster hard drive but not for performance?

Get a cheap SSD, use it for cache. /thread

What certain games are you playing? Are they legit installations or cracked? (if pirating, this thread ends now...I only mention this because some cracked games are known not to perform properly can can present similar issues as you're reporting...).

Games usually precache stuff into RAM, that's where EVERYTHING on your system runs, your OS, programs, games, open files, etc. So maybe you're running out of RAM and it's caching to your page file on your HDD...that will cause stutters and slowdowns. System paging to storage will definitely be a problem and cause hitching.

As @Batou1986 suggests, maybe increasing RAM is a good way to go. 8GB is getting to be on the average low-end for performance gaming, but should be good for most people...maybe you're hyper-sensitive to these paging hitches more-so than many standard users. 16GB is the sweet spot imho, and should help resolve this by allowing the OS to have more fast storage. Even DDR3 1600 is MUCH faster than an SSD or HDD. I run 16GB, and my OS still pages a tiny bit to PF, usually a couple hundred MB. I run an OS SSD and a game SSD along with a pair of 2TB HDDs (one is an SSHD). But I don't experience the issues you state.


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## Batou1986 (Jan 22, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> all games, even sc2, league of legends, smite, other offline games, heroes of the storm.
> I dont have the money to experiment around my components.



Something is not right there those games should run fine with your current specs, are you sure you are not overheating?
Dell PSU also might not be enough for that 980 and causing issues.

To be frank stuttering in games can be caused by a lot of things in this instance I dont think its an upgrade to fix solution.

I would start by making sure that the powersupply is good enough to drive a GTX 980, then make sure your heatsinks are clean and that you have enough airflow that the 980/CPU is not overheating.
Next check to see if all drivers are up to date, if all of that is in order might be worth testing the HDD for errors.

Also flaky internet connection can cause the issue you are describing in the multiplayer games.


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## BarbaricSoul (Jan 22, 2016)

^agreed, need to run some tests on your various components to see where the problem is. Those games should have no issue running like butter on your current system.

Also, no way in hell would I run a GTX 980 on a oem Dell PSU.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 22, 2016)

Kursah said:


> *BELOW IS FROM THE OP*...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


please stop being aggressive.
All games legit.



Batou1986 said:


> Something is not right there those games should run fine with your current specs, are you sure you are not overheating?
> Dell PSU also might not be enough for that 980 and causing issues.
> 
> To be frank stuttering in games can be caused by a lot of things in this instance I dont think its an upgrade to fix solution.


you need to investigate the power the card needs and the power the system sends to the card in order to know that.
I thought it was compatible powerwise. Well I asked 2 tech suppot departments, one from the store and one from dell.

ps: I get also hard pagefaults, much high resolution times. you can check my other thread above.

and so, the point here is to spot the problem, not to make theories about it, I found no issue with my hardware in various scans, so nothing is broken, and heat seems fine, 50c gpu for example, I can check voltages but dont know how.

ps: Note that the games stutter when loading assets, lets say I play heroes of the storm, or league of legends, it will start when minions first spawn and roam around. or when I hover over a battle.
it happens regardless of graphical settings as well.


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## Batou1986 (Jan 22, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> please stop being aggressive.
> All games legit.
> 
> 
> ...




Check the side of the powersupply it should have a sticker like this






The important numbers are the total wattage and the amp rating per line
Even if you have an 800w PSU if the 12v lines only do 15A that could be a problem, according to nvidia you need 30A rating on the 12v line

If you are getting a lot of hard page faults that is an indication that you do not have enough memory, ssd would help speed that up but you will still get hard faults every time it has to load new assets into ram

so the solution to the hard faults is to add more ram but I feel that there is an underlying issue here because plenty of people play these games on specs lower than yours without these issues.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 22, 2016)

Batou1986 said:


> Check the side of the powersupply it should have a sticker like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Only numbers are:

v:100-240
a:6
hz:50-60

Memory is indicated to be healthy. On memtests.


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## Kursah (Jan 22, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> Only numbers are:
> 
> v:100-240
> a:6
> hz:50-60



Can you take a good/clear picture, upload it/them @ techpowerup.org and paste their BBS links here?


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## RejZoR (Jan 22, 2016)

People talk about things they never used or they don't understand at all. SSHD's don't just help OS load time,s they help load times of everything, even apps and games. Granted, I'm using software hybrid solution, but the mechanism behind it is identical to hardware solution. Block level caching. And it works. Works really well. Yes, Windows boots WAY faster, all apps fire up instantly even after cold boot, Natural Selection 2 maps that are known to take really long to load took significantly less time. And HDD becomes a lot quieter since majority of data is read from SSD. Yeah, OS boots and loading apps and games makes no HDD grind because it makes all reads from SSD. My usual cache hit ratio is around 80%. This means out of 1 GB reads, 0.8 GB is read from SSD. It just works.


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## Kursah (Jan 22, 2016)

Your version of SSD caching versus Seagate's is different in the aspect of the size of cache, which greatly affects performance, so be careful assuming that the on-the-shelf SSHD will make such a great difference. I own 3 SSHD's, a 2.5" 1TB in my laptop, a 3.5" 2TB in my main rig and a 1TB 3.5" in my family rig. All of that limited 8GB SSD cache. Smaller cache = degraded performance after a certain amount. None of them made a noticeable difference beyond OS loading. Games and programs were not noticeable which makes them not worth it when they cost more than a standard 7200RPM HDD in the same storage arena.

SSD as a cache though as you use it, does make a more noticeable difference, and has a lot larger cache space to work with, which is where the difference really lies. But is a bulkier solution that I would rather have a larger SSD dedicated to OS + few games and then the HDD dedicated to storage plus less played games until I can deploy a large SSD to replace that HDD, that's my preference to keep wiring and bulk to a minimum. To each their own on that aspect.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 22, 2016)

Kursah said:


> Can you take a good/clear picture, upload it/them @ techpowerup.org and paste their BBS links here?


Okay but wait since it will take time


RejZoR said:


> People talk about things they never used or they don't understand at all. SSHD's don't just help OS load time,s they help load times of everything, even apps and games. Granted, I'm using software hybrid solution, but the mechanism behind it is identical to hardware solution. Block level caching. And it works. Works really well. Yes, Windows boots WAY faster, all apps fire up instantly even after cold boot, Natural Selection 2 maps that are known to take really long to load took significantly less time. And HDD becomes a lot quieter since majority of data is read from SSD. Yeah, OS boots and loading apps and games makes no HDD grind because it makes all reads from SSD. My usual cache hit ratio is around 80%. This means out of 1 GB reads, 0.8 GB is read from SSD. It just works.


I am confused now.

Okay so I cannot take you a picture of the psu, its impossible, I might get a virus or something by trying to resolve this. I tried at least. Nevermind that.


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## Kursah (Jan 22, 2016)

Why is it impossible to take a picture of the PSU? 

You might get a virus trying to resolve this? If you mean from techpowerup.org, not likely.

Your post makes little sense...


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## TwinDenis (Jan 22, 2016)

Kursah said:


> Why is it impossible to take a picture of the PSU?
> 
> You might get a virus trying to resolve this? If you mean from techpowerup.org, not likely.
> 
> Your post makes little sense...


yes it does, it prompts me to something like a third party driver. It is considered malware.

ps: wait for it.



Kursah said:


> Can you take a good/clear picture, upload it/them @ techpowerup.org and paste their BBS links here?


Ok so I managed to transfer the photo without a driver, so anyway.
here is my sticker you asked for.


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## Batou1986 (Jan 22, 2016)

There is another sticker somewhere else on the PSU with the specs, that is a generic safety label they use on a lot of parts.

You might want to run Malware bytes from here https://www.malwarebytes.org/mwb-download/
Techpowerup.org is clean, if your getting prompts to install things something is already infected your system.
There are no extensions or anything silly needed to upload a picture to Techpowerup.org, this would also explain why you are having issues with hitching and stutters.


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## P4-630 (Jan 22, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> Ok so I managed to transfer the photo without a driver, so anyway.
> here is my sticker you asked for.



There should be another sticker on it.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 22, 2016)

Batou1986 said:


> There is another sticker somewhere else on the PSU with the specs, that is a generic safety label they use on a lot of parts.
> 
> You might want to run Malware bytes from here https://www.malwarebytes.org/mwb-download/
> Techpowerup.org is clean, if your getting prompts to install things something is already infected your system.
> There are no extensions or anything silly needed to upload a picture to Techpowerup.org, this would also explain why you are having issues with hitching and stutters.


wrong, you do not understand the situation so skip this matter please.

I will try and find it.


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## Kursah (Jan 22, 2016)

It's a shame they covered the yellow sticker... 

The DP/N: VG6YD at the bottom right is leading me to overall builds for T3600 systems but not enough for that specific PSU.

You might need to take the power supply out or loosen it from it's mounted position to find the other Spec sticker that has actual rail and amperage ratings.



TwinDenis said:


> yes it does, it prompts me to something like a third party driver. It is considered malware.
> 
> ps: wait for it.



Not necessarily true. 3rd party unsigned drivers will cause this prompt to come up...doesn't mean malware/virus/infection is going to happen. The OS is trying to keep you safe form yourself and your actions with popups like this. If you know the driver is correct for the device, and direct from the vendor, likely chances are you're fine. Odds are the vendor doesn't have an updated signed driver that MS has tested and verified, hence the popup you're seeing...

If you're worried about infections, please refer to @Batou1986 previous post about MBAM and malware scanning.


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## Batou1986 (Jan 22, 2016)

well if its a t3600 system the best PSU it could have is this or a 435w version, its proprietary too so no upgrades
Theoretically it should be sufficient at 36A total from two rails for a stock 980GTX but the fancy editions could exceed the 30A Nvidia spec






To answer your original question no a SSHD is not the way to go if you are trying to eliminate stutter in high demand situations the ssd portion of them is too small
That being said its unlikely that your HDD is causing the stuttering without some other factor


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## TwinDenis (Jan 22, 2016)

Batou1986 said:


> well if its a t3600 system the best PSU it could have is this or a 435w version, its proprietary too so no upgrades
> Theoretically it should be sufficient at 36A total from two rails for a stock 980GTX but the fancy editions could exceed the 30A Nvidia spec
> 
> 
> ...


I managed to pull it out and take a clear picture although outfocused.


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## RejZoR (Jan 22, 2016)

Kursah said:


> Your version of SSD caching versus Seagate's is different in the aspect of the size of cache, which greatly affects performance, so be careful assuming that the on-the-shelf SSHD will make such a great difference. I own 3 SSHD's, a 2.5" 1TB in my laptop, a 3.5" 2TB in my main rig and a 1TB 3.5" in my family rig. All of that limited 8GB SSD cache. Smaller cache = degraded performance after a certain amount. None of them made a noticeable difference beyond OS loading. Games and programs were not noticeable which makes them not worth it when they cost more than a standard 7200RPM HDD in the same storage arena.
> 
> SSD as a cache though as you use it, does make a more noticeable difference, and has a lot larger cache space to work with, which is where the difference really lies. But is a bulkier solution that I would rather have a larger SSD dedicated to OS + few games and then the HDD dedicated to storage plus less played games until I can deploy a large SSD to replace that HDD, that's my preference to keep wiring and bulk to a minimum. To each their own on that aspect.



I had a slower, smaller one before and gains were similar. I agree that 8GB cache on SSHD's is a bit small for me, but for most casual users, it should be enough.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 22, 2016)

RejZoR said:


> I had a slower, smaller one before and gains were similar. I agree that 8GB cache on SSHD's is a bit small for me, but for most casual users, it should be enough.


from my understanding the benefit it has is it provides better performance, keep in mind that boot is not as frequent as if you want to play a game, so lets say you boot 2 times and use a game that demands specific data 5 times, it will prioritize the game. So that said I think boot will not catch up the whole ssd cache part of it, well I just realised that according to hdd sentinel I have 6gb/s the problem was present even before me using the perc controller which comes with nagotiate link of 6gb/s so , dell was wrong on telling me that it was the hdd that had the 3gb/s rates, but anyway I had the issue even before that, and the games I play are not thaaat demanding. Like for instance, league of legends.

I passed all dell diagnostics tests so far and used third party apps to diagnose my components as well, like easus and hdd sentinel, memtest, windows memtest.


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## Kursah (Jan 22, 2016)

RejZoR said:


> I had a slower, smaller one before and gains were similar. I agree that 8GB cache on SSHD's is a bit small for me, but for most casual users, it should be enough.



Well I'll tell you that it's not enough to notice for gaming. Again, maybe in your situation where you dedicated a (larger than 8GB) SSD only for cache sure...that will show a clear advantage in comparison to HDD and SSHD's.

It's just enough for the OS generally. I have a mirror image on the family PC...between the Seagate HDD and SSHD, the only noticeable difference is literally in OS load, and really that wasn't even much more than a couple seconds different... not enough if there is a price premium on the SSHD. They need larger caches to be noticeably useful to gamers and performance-oriented users... at this point, unless they're the same price or cheaper, they make no sense to buy over a standard HDD. 

I have done tons of A|B-ing on various systems and platforms, as a gamer, power user, office user, VM lab for certifications and beyond...SSHD's aren't worth any price premium over HDD's. Period. If a user truly wants faster speed and less bulk, get a damn SSD and be done with it.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 22, 2016)

Kursah said:


> Well I'll tell you that it's not enough to notice for gaming. Again, maybe in your situation where you dedicated a (larger than 8GB) SSD only for cache sure...that will show a clear advantage in comparison to HDD and SSHD's.
> 
> It's just enough for the OS generally. I have a mirror image on the family PC...between the Seagate HDD and SSHD, the only noticeable difference is literally in OS load, and really that wasn't even much more than a couple seconds different... not enough if there is a price premium on the SSHD. They need larger caches to be noticeably useful to gamers and performance-oriented users... at this point, unless they're the same price or cheaper, they make no sense to buy over a standard HDD.
> 
> I have done tons of A|B-ing on various systems and platforms, as a gamer, power user, office user, VM lab for certifications and beyond...SSHD's aren't worth any price premium over HDD's. Period. If a user truly wants faster speed and less bulk, get a damn SSD and be done with it.


Ok so I can change the subject from should I buy to troubleshooting the stutter issue if it is not the HDD. Should one use the ssd for caching or for actual storage and have a second hdd for storage as well? I use the pc for 3D art and gaming so I have lots of files and much needed directories.


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## RejZoR (Jan 22, 2016)

Maybe SSHD's really aren't that great but software hybrid is just awesome. So awesome I'm having really hard time going full SSD. Not for the price they are selling them and for gains that I won't get compared to what I have now.


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## Kursah (Jan 22, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> Ok so I can change the subject from should I buy to troubleshooting the stutter issue if it is not the HDD. Should one use the ssd for caching or for actual storage and have a second hdd for storage as well? I use the pc for 3D art and gaming so I have lots of files and much needed directories.



That depends on what you want to do. You can use the second SSD as cache, but there are some steps in the OS you need to take. But then you're limited to the storage capacity of your hard drive as the SSD is being used as a cache. This has pro's and cons. You'll gain speed for more things...but you won't have maximum speeds of a pure SSD...though from my experience it is getting mighty close when data is being loaded purely from cache. But the processing and software overhead can slow them down a bit.

I personally would get a 250GB SSD, slap the OS and my most played games on it and go...use the other drive as storage for work, other games, downloads, data, etc. I prefer a pure SSD for pure speed. You could always buy a 60GB SSD for caching and give it a shot at a lower price point. You might find it is just the solution you were looking for... 

Did we ever get sorted what HDD you have and make sure it's not an 5400RPM small cache slouch? Can you download Speccy and report back on that?


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## TwinDenis (Jan 22, 2016)

RejZoR said:


> Maybe SSHD's really aren't that great but software hybrid is just awesome. So awesome I'm having really hard time going full SSD. Not for the price they are selling them and for gains that I won't get compared to what I have now.


I saw benchmarks that show that the SSHD can aproach the speeds of SSDs but not reach them , it happens after 5 uses maybe, so yeah, but it is only for the cached stuff. Well it works for some people I guess and not for others.
My concern is storage too because most games nowadays are huge on storage, take for example witcher3 at 35gb and especially online games like tera at 40gb!


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## TwinDenis (Jan 22, 2016)

Kursah said:


> That depends on what you want to do. You can use the second SSD as cache, but there are some steps in the OS you need to take. But then you're limited to the storage capacity of your hard drive as the SSD is being used as a cache. This has pro's and cons. You'll gain speed for more things...but you won't have maximum speeds of a pure SSD...though from my experience it is getting mighty close when data is being loaded purely from cache. But the processing and software overhead can slow them down a bit.
> 
> I personally would get a 250GB SSD, slap the OS and my most played games on it and go...use the other drive as storage for work, other games, downloads, data, etc. I prefer a pure SSD for pure speed. You could always buy a 60GB SSD for caching and give it a shot at a lower price point. You might find it is just the solution you were looking for...
> 
> Did we ever get sorted what HDD you have and make sure it's not an 5400RPM small cache slouch? Can you download Speccy and report back on that?


yes you could


Kursah said:


> That depends on what you want to do. You can use the second SSD as cache, but there are some steps in the OS you need to take. But then you're limited to the storage capacity of your hard drive as the SSD is being used as a cache. This has pro's and cons. You'll gain speed for more things...but you won't have maximum speeds of a pure SSD...though from my experience it is getting mighty close when data is being loaded purely from cache. But the processing and software overhead can slow them down a bit.
> 
> I personally would get a 250GB SSD, slap the OS and my most played games on it and go...use the other drive as storage for work, other games, downloads, data, etc. I prefer a pure SSD for pure speed. You could always buy a 60GB SSD for caching and give it a shot at a lower price point. You might find it is just the solution you were looking for...
> 
> Did we ever get sorted what HDD you have and make sure it's not an 5400RPM small cache slouch? Can you download Speccy and report back on that?


well yeah, I guess I understand, and I do, but one thing is game storage, yes I have issues with that since games are very large the last years, even older ones make no mistake(from 30-40gb).
I saw my HDD specs, they are the default of st200DM001-1CH1
So yeah, no idea, it should run smoothly even without an ssd, it would just be a lot faster, but this is not a matter of faster loads but to make the games not stutter.


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## Ruyki (Jan 22, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> all games, even sc2, league of legends, smite, other offline games, heroes of the storm.
> I dont have the money to experiment around my components.



Generally games are programmed to load all or most of what they need before the game lets you play - this is done at the loading screen. Some games will load additional content while playing but this should always be done before that content is needed. If a game decides to load content from the disk at the very moment that content is needed for the game to run - the game will likely stutter/freeze/slow down even on fast SSDs.

I analyzed your situation and my best guess is that you're suffering from one of the following:
- you're running out of RAM - check how much RAM you're using while playing at the task manager
- your hard drive is slower than it should be - can be caused by faulty hard drive or other programs accessing it while playing - check hard drive SMART status, check windows event logs, run a disk check with a bad sector scan, run a disk benchmark (like crystaldiskmark) and post results here
- you have a hardware or software problem that is unrelated to the hard drive


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## TwinDenis (Jan 22, 2016)

Ruyki said:


> Generally games are programmed to load all or most of what they need before the game lets you play - this is done at the loading screen. Some games will load additional content while playing but this should always be done before that content is needed. If a game decides to load content from the disk at the very moment that content is needed for the game to run - the game will likely stutter/freeze/slow down even on fast SSDs.
> 
> I analyzed your situation and my best guess is that you're suffering from one of the following:
> - you're running out of RAM - check how much RAM you're using while playing at the task manager
> ...


1) I am not running out of ram it is very unlikely, usage is at an average and goes up when needed by my game.
2) my hard drive is the model listed above, no idea if it is slower than it should be, it seems to be the standard HDD sata3.
3) if so , how do you think I can spot it? gpu seems okay regardless it shouldnt do this stutter, also it happens regardless of graphical or other in game settings or nvidia settings, other users with lower end pcs have no issues like this, they run the game with HDD the same way as it should be ran.


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## Kursah (Jan 22, 2016)

The part number you provided pulls up nada. I'm assuming its a Seagate drive, but we need more info. Can you please download Speccy or Crystal Disk Info and report back on what they say about your hard drive?


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## Toothless (Jan 22, 2016)

I play League on an HDD along with another 900GB of games on the same drive and get no issues. The only time i get issues is when i have JC3 and a couple other things open at once that eat my memory, which induces stuttering.

Scan everything  for bugs on your drive. To be honest it sounds like your OS is using your drive while your gaming, causing it to slow down which could cause the stuttering. I'd say get a second HDD for games only to let the OS have its own space. This is coming from personal experience.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 22, 2016)

Ruyki said:


> Generally games are programmed to load all or most of what they need before the game lets you play - this is done at the loading screen. Some games will load additional content while playing but this should always be done before that content is needed. If a game decides to load content from the disk at the very moment that content is needed for the game to run - the game will likely stutter/freeze/slow down even on fast SSDs.
> 
> I analyzed your situation and my best guess is that you're suffering from one of the following:
> - you're running out of RAM - check how much RAM you're using while playing at the task manager
> ...





Kursah said:


> The part number you provided pulls up nada. I'm assuming its a Seagate drive, but we need more info. Can you please download Speccy or Crystal Disk Info and report back on what they say about your hard drive?





Toothless said:


> I play League on an HDD along with another 900GB of games on the same drive and get no issues. The only time i get issues is when i have JC3 and a couple other things open at once that eat my memory, which induces stuttering.
> 
> Scan everything  for bugs on your drive. To be honest it sounds like your OS is using your drive while your gaming, causing it to slow down which could cause the stuttering. I'd say get a second HDD for games only to let the OS have its own space. This is coming from personal experience.



Okay so here are the results all of you need:





PS: it happened even before I removed the perc controller, the performance issues I mean.


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## Kursah (Jan 22, 2016)

SMART info looks good, which is a plus. Temps are also very good, so that's a plus as well.

Here is your drive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148834

Appears to get so-so results, but there are also quite a few favorable results as well...I'd say nothing surprising or disappointing to be read about on a quick analysis.

Looks like your standard HDD with 7.2krpm and 64MB cache. Should be a standard performer...and that could be a part of the problem you're experiencing if any game is expecting streaming and you have other read/write tasks going on.

Drives have their data queued by the OS, which you can review in Resource Monitor under the Hard Drive tab. Once you start reaching 1.0 or higher, you're queue is to a point where you're backing up and the cache is full and the drive is busy writing what the cache is sending. When this occurs system slowdown and hitches can be likely.

Now if you're just playing a game and doing nothing else, there's a chance OS background services could cause issues...but that shouldn't be all the time. It would be more limited than that. Even AV should be limited if your game isn't constantly downloading or streaming files.

I do see you're about half utilized on yoru RAM, so really you should have plenty left over for a game...and your paged pool is just 3XXMB so not bad there either. I will warn you that in my experience, the OS will start caching to page file more when you reach 80% utilization, that's a Windows thing. Not that it should be a major deal...but I'm trying to sort out all the possibilities.

So you have a good drive, a good card, we're not sure on your PSU yet.

Are you familiar with reviewing Event Viewer for system errors?

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/open-event-viewer#1TC=windows-7

Then choose Windows Logs > System.

On the right choose FIlter Current Log, and select Warning, Critical and Error. Find a time while you were gaming, let's see if something is being reported during this time...likely not...but it doesn't hurt.

I'm still curious if the Dell platform is under-performing like I've experienced with Lenovo units as I mentioned earlier...


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## TwinDenis (Jan 22, 2016)

Kursah said:


> SMART info looks good, which is a plus. Temps are also very good, so that's a plus as well.
> 
> Here is your drive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148834
> 
> ...


Nothing special in there at the time I was playing. Also even when gaming I have only the game open usually, you can see the ram qued up even with the game open at the same time its around 50% used and the game is running in the back, there are times where I see the disc going up to 100% usage of course.

ps: I uploaded the image of my psu above.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 22, 2016)

Here are more specs from Speccy that might help you:


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## m&m's (Jan 22, 2016)

According to the owner's manual -> http://ftp.dell.com/Manuals/all-pro...tion/precision-t3600_Owner's Manual_en-us.pdf your motherboard is limited to SATA 2.0.
That said, it shouldn't change anything for an HDD.

Two things come to my mind, how slow is the HDD and is the windows install in good shape.

Download ATTO Disk Benchmark http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/1749/atto-disk-benchmark-v2-46/ take a screenshot and post it.
Open CMD as an administrator and type *sfc /scannow* it will repair corrupted files if there is any.

Don't run the benchmark and the command at the same time.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 22, 2016)

m&m's said:


> According to the owner's manual -> http://ftp.dell.com/Manuals/all-products/esuprt_desktop/esuprt_dell_precision_workstation/precision-t3600_Owner's Manual_en-us.pdf your motherboard is limited to SATA 2.0.
> That said, it shouldn't change anything for an HDD.
> 
> Two things come to my mind, how slow is the HDD and is the windows install in good shape.
> ...


I know this issue is a real challenge, well, its been a year since I try things around and ask dell support, I had it given up untill now, so .... anyway
windows is indeed in a good shape and I ran the scan several times because microsoft only knows to run this command, so yes. Everything is optimized from that end.
now for the sata 2.0, it is used by the onboard ports, the perc controller can hold up to 6gb/s speeds which as I recall is an sata-III.
But besides all that, here are my results:


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## m&m's (Jan 22, 2016)

The transfer rate is normal for an HDD.

I don't think it's the HDD causing this.

Did you try to slide the card in your second PCI-E x16 slot?


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## TwinDenis (Jan 22, 2016)

m&m's said:


> The transfer rate is normal for an HDD.
> 
> I don't think it's the HDD causing this.
> 
> Did you try to slide the card in your second PCI-E x16 slot?


yes, of course I did, it has 2 if I am not mistaken, they are
PCI-E x16 slot gen3. There is a blue one and a black one, I now sit the card at the blue one, all this time I had it on the black one and used to have it on the blue one earlier, I have tried using an gtx770 as well, then replaced it for the current one because it is using much less power and has better performance specs.

ps: how can we troubleshoot and monitor the ram, is my ram okay according to the results?
I have ran dell diagnostics throughout and windows mem test, along with another program I dont recall the name of.


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## Kursah (Jan 23, 2016)

Ram usage appears to be normal for Windows...it will try to cache things you normally use in RAM to make your system feel faster, because your programs, games, apps, are preloaded. 50% utilization with 8GB is nothing to worry about.

If your RAM has passed Dell, Windows and Memtest86, then you're likely fine on that front.

Another thing could be if the Dell board has gimped the chipset...I've seen it before with HP, Dell and especially Lenovo where they don't allow the chipset to perform at full speed in order to reduce system costs. If this is the case, your card could be limited on pci-e lanes/bandwidth, memory bandwidth, etc. when compared to a custom-built machine with the same chipset. That is something to keep in mind as this could be the culprit..and nonmatter how good the components are...the weakest link will hold u back. If it is in fact Dells board then you may be outta luck.

Have you verified your PCIe slot is running at X16 under load? You should be running at least X8 to prevent performance drops, lag, etc. You can download GPU-Z from here and run it's built in test to verify your PCIe slot is running at full speed. That's worth checking next. I'm not sure if running at 4X would cause enough performance degradation or not...and I'm hoping your PCIe slot is full speed anyways.

So you've ran at least 2 graphics cards I'm aware of in this thread


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## TwinDenis (Jan 23, 2016)

Kursah said:


> Ram usage appears to be normal for Windows...it will try to cache things you normally use in RAM to make your system feel faster, because your programs, games, apps, are preloaded. 50% utilization with 8GB is nothing to worry about.
> 
> If your RAM has passed Dell, Windows and Memtest86, then you're likely fine on that front.
> 
> ...


Besides that I have two results, one from their other application too.










ps: the machine as a default bundle costs around 2000bucks, at the time.
pss: on the pci port, it reads "225w", the card I think needs 150w or something.


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## m&m's (Jan 23, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> ps: the machine as a default bundle costs around 2000bucks, at the time.
> pss: on the pci port, it reads "225w", the card I think needs 150w or something.



What @Kursah  meant by "run it's built in test to verify your PCIe slot is running at full speed" is this:





You need to the click the blue "*?*".

The PCI-E slot should only output 75W and the rest be provided directly by the PSU.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 23, 2016)

m&m's said:


> What @Kursah  meant by "run it's built in test to verify your PCIe slot is running at full speed" is this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeah okay, it was hidden, here it is:





ps: title changed to something within the topic of our discussion.


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## Kursah (Jan 23, 2016)

Leave the app on the main info screen...as shown by @m&m's with the test going. He highlighted on the part we want to see to give you an idea of what we're looking for...


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## TwinDenis (Jan 23, 2016)

Kursah said:


> Leave the app on the main info screen...as shown by @m&m's with the test going. He highlighted on the part we want to see to give you an idea of what we're looking for...


okay here it is:


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## siluro818 (Jan 23, 2016)

How do you define stutter btw? How frequent and how long are the jumps/stops in framerate? It could well be some display sync issue.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 23, 2016)

siluro818 said:


> How do you define stutter btw? How frequent and how long are the jumps/stops in framerate? It could well be some display sync issue.


fps drops without fps counter dropping a single frame usually, it is constant, it happens after minion spawn and remains constant until end of a game in heroes of the storm especially, I used 2 monitors to check on that as well.
You could also describe it as constant hiccup. Non smooth animations as though it was fps dropped at 30fps or 40fps.

ps: I will check on this thread every 10 minutes usually so expect fast response.


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## m&m's (Jan 23, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> fps drops without fps counter dropping a single frame usually, it is constant, it happens after minion spawn and remains constant until end of a game in heroes of the storm especially, I used 2 monitors to check on that as well.
> You could also describe it as constant hiccup. Non smooth animations as though it was fps dropped at 30fps or 40fps.
> 
> ps: I will check on this thread every 10 minutes usually so expect fast response.



Wait a minute, so FPS don't actually drop? It seems like it drops but it does not.



TwinDenis said:


> okay here it is:


Everything seems fine. PCI-E 2.0 X16.

EDIT: Install MSI Afterburner, play at least 10 minutes and post a screenshot of the hardware monitor so it looks like this:


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## Kursah (Jan 23, 2016)

I saw that. Please be respectful & not pushy. We are here to help for free..making statements that you expect replies is going to get you ignored. 

With that said...have you been monitoring your actual in FPS? With what? How about GPU clocks while gaming?


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## TwinDenis (Jan 23, 2016)

m&m's said:


> Wait a minute, so FPS don't actually drop? It seems like it drops but it does not.
> 
> 
> Everything seems fine. PCI-E 2.0 X16.
> ...



Here are the results in game while having the problem of constant stutter/fps drop(in game counter shows 59 fps as such is my screen's actual framerate, I have tried on other monitor too):





So I was idle, then got into queue for heroes of the storm then got in game and was playing, then closed the game and took this screenshot.


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## natr0n (Jan 23, 2016)

If you're using a platter hard drive have you ever even defraged it ?

http://www.piriform.com/defraggler


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## TwinDenis (Jan 23, 2016)

natr0n said:


> If you're using a platter hard drive have you ever even defraged it ?
> 
> http://www.piriform.com/defraggler


of course, weekly.


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## red_stapler (Jan 23, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> Here are the results in game while having the problem of constant stutter/fps drop(in game counter shows 59 fps as such is my screen's actual framerate, I have tried on other monitor too):
> 
> 
> So I was idle, then got into queue for heroes of the storm then got in game and was playing, then closed the game and took this screenshot.



I don't see the framerate on that chart.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 23, 2016)

red_stapler said:


> I don't see the framerate on that chart.


okay but he asked for it, and the fps is at 59 constant , it wont fall, only on extreme cases but even so.


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## m&m's (Jan 23, 2016)

Alright I don't own an NVidia GPU, but can someone tell if the spikes are normal for a GTX 980?
Also your GPU never exceeded 40% usage, disable VSync and try again.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 23, 2016)

m&m's said:


> Alright I don't own an NVidia GPU, but can someone tell if the spikes are normal for a GTX 980?
> Also your GPU never exceeded 40% usage, disable VSync and try again.


well, no idea but if I disable vsync it would probably be worse, I will post one more then, should I use some kind of fps counter?


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## m&m's (Jan 23, 2016)

Also you might want to look if there's a newer BIOS available for your GPU.


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## rtwjunkie (Jan 23, 2016)

m&m's said:


> Alright I don't own an NVidia GPU, but can someone tell if the spikes are normal for a GTX 980?



Are you talking about the spikes for frame buffer usage? No, I've not seen that.  It stays pretty steady.


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## m&m's (Jan 23, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> Are you talking about the spikes for frame buffer usage? No, I've not seen that.  It stays pretty steady.


I'm talking about the GPU usage spikes that I framed in red. GPU saving feature? Could it be causing the stutter?


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## rtwjunkie (Jan 23, 2016)

m&m's said:


> I'm talking about the GPU usage spikes that I framed in red. GPU saving feature? Could it be causing the stutter?



Lol, my eyes must be getting bad. The red highlights look like they are on the FB line.

To answer the GPU usage, yes, it does drop or increase based on what's on screen, but I rarely see more than a 5% difference.  In other words, it's usually the overall game itself which drives my GPU use percentage.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 23, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> Lol, my eyes must be getting bad. The red highlights look like they are on the FB line.
> 
> To answer the GPU usage, yes, it does drop or increase based on what's on screen, but I rarely see more than a 5% difference.  In other words, it's usually the overall game itself which drives my GPU use percentage.


In msiafterburner the power% is the first one above the first graph so I think it could be that the name of the graph is at the top of the graph. Not sure but I guess it is that.
I am about to record gameplay without vsync from in game and from nvidia control panel.



m&m's said:


> Alright I don't own an NVidia GPU, but can someone tell if the spikes are normal for a GTX 980?
> Also your GPU never exceeded 40% usage, disable VSync and try again.


okay so I managed to record it without vsync, which was horrible, much screen tearing and massive hiccup or whatever it is called.
I made sure to take many pictures of it, I scrolled all the graphs, the name is on the top it seems as I suspected.
here we go:
1-



2-



3-



4-




So at the end I was not running the game , I ran it for more than 10 minutes. So this model is a windforce model from gigabyte, it has 3 fans.


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## vectoravtech (Jan 24, 2016)

What games is it studdering on? I remember ages ago you needed to input a boudrate with the number in the ~ of some FPS games. That sticker looks generic, heres a software I always use as a last resort on help rooms called (Hitman Pro) that comes as a 30 day demo. Their server has a ton of antivirus/ antimalware aps on it.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 24, 2016)

vectoravtech said:


> I remember ages ago you needed to input a boudrate with the number in the ~ of some FPS games.


tried several things, from limiting fps to vsync play around, it will not make any diffrence but vsync will make it look more acceptable. In some cases still unplayable.


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## trog100 (Jan 24, 2016)

how does it behave when you run a benchmark like heaven.. people can relate to that being as its commonly used.. 

the other thing to try running is furmark.. that should show maximum power and core usage all the time while its being run.. run it windowed.. you can see more whats going on while its going on.. 

trog


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## TwinDenis (Jan 24, 2016)

trog100 said:


> how does it behave when you run a benchmark like heaven.. people can relate to that being as its commonly used..
> 
> the other thing to try running is furmark.. that should show maximum power and core usage all the time while its being run.. run it windowed.. you can see more whats going on while its going on..
> 
> trog


Yes I tried them as well, I cannot seem to spot the problem or problems.

ps: we cannot really related, every computer is different but if something is not right either software-wise or hardware-wise then there could be a problem, it depends of what the issue is and where its location is, I tried everything I could in software perspective and operation, settings etc, now the people here are trying to check on my hardware, I am not sure but as far as I remember I got pretty high scores on those tests. But scores will not really matter, if something is wrong and is a tiny little thing or detail or compatibility or whatever it will not work as intended. I cannot really troubleshoot the issue but I am grateful that there are people interested for help.

pss: maybe it is an illusion but assuming my results are good, setting my game to realtime on process list from task manager improved a bit of the problem but it still existed, it was a minor improvement, well almost at 5%-10%, that small. But it could be an illusion thats why I rate it so small.


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## Iceni (Jan 24, 2016)

I'm looking at this from a software perspective.

The hardware is over-specced for the game your playing, FPS shouldn't be a issue, and it isn't.

Your windows install, is it clean.

Do you run an antivirus program. And is the antivirus set to scan everything including minor system changes and file requests. If so pull the internet cable out of the machine, disable the AV, then run the same game and see if it still has the same lag spikes. Be mindful with the AV program that it may have several programs or processes using other names. If the problem goes away you have your culprit.

Then do the same thing with the firewall. Heuristic scans cause all sorts of interesting effects.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 24, 2016)

Iceni said:


> I'm looking at this from a software perspective.
> 
> The hardware is over-specced for the game your playing, FPS shouldn't be a issue, and it isn't.
> 
> ...


Yes I have tried those, I have been self experimenting for a year now, these are the most common solutions for me. It can happen offline too but In case it didnt happen on offline mode, my ISP states the line is clean and perfect. Yes I haev written above that it is clean installed, and tested on many versions of windows with different drivers. Without antivirus, anti-malware or any other similar interference, my dpc latency is at a good pulse as well.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 24, 2016)

Could it be related to this? http://blog.scoutapp.com/articles/2011/02/10/understanding-disk-i-o-when-should-you-be-worried
Well besides that, I have latencymon reporting me constantly that I have high resolution time on hard pagefaults, for my hdd it is weird, ram is told to be okay, same for hdd, so what is up here...

ps: for heroes of the storm the game was said to be bugged, but I reviewed some cases and it was that people were having net issues, but in my case blizzard did not know what was up. They have a test to check the line as well when reaching their server. For me it was a decent result.


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## Iceni (Jan 24, 2016)

Could it be a poor sata cable? 

You can always run a HDD benchmark and see what it pulls up. You can always borrow the cable from the optical drive if you want to test another cable as well.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 24, 2016)

Iceni said:


> Could it be a poor sata cable?
> 
> You can always run a HDD benchmark and see what it pulls up. You can always borrow the cable from the optical drive if you want to test another cable as well.


it is regardless of cables, and for a benchmark, you can recommend me one more if you want to.


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## Iceni (Jan 24, 2016)

I think  the last  one I used was part of the samsung magician software, But I think Crystaldiskmark works as well.

Just don't hold me to crystaldiskmark, I used it ages ago and these small programs have a habit of changing hands and appearing with new "features".

My own spinners Non/os. Just plain old junk drives (2tb x2)

Read 129MB/s .............................Write 97MB/s
Iops read 471 .............................. Write 591

104 ............................  101
320 .............................  275

Mirror spinners (2tb mirror)

186/192 ............................   208/236
5426/6953   ...............................  483/513


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## TwinDenis (Jan 24, 2016)

Iceni said:


> Could it be a poor sata cable?
> 
> You can always run a HDD benchmark and see what it pulls up. You can always borrow the cable from the optical drive if you want to test another cable as well.


Okay I downloaded their test that the results are here:

http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/690804


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## TwinDenis (Jan 24, 2016)

would a :

*Samsung SSD 850 Evo 2,5'' 500GB*

Be a good choice by the way for an investment?


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## TwinDenis (Jan 24, 2016)

Iceni said:


> I think  the last  one I used was part of the samsung magician software, But I think Crystaldiskmark works as well.
> 
> Just don't hold me to crystaldiskmark, I used it ages ago and these small programs have a habit of changing hands and appearing with new "features".
> 
> ...


Here you go:


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## Iceni (Jan 24, 2016)

They look better than my own scores. And I run directly off my spinners for a lot of titles, mostly older ones tho.


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## trog100 (Jan 24, 2016)

you will only get the high scores if nothing is wrong.. basically if the right score is produced running something like heaven it needs your graphics system all to be working correctly..

games can vary too much to be reliable loading tools.. have a go with the heaven benchmark and post the results.. it will at least give everyone something solid to work with.. make sure vsync is off..


trog


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## R-T-B (Jan 24, 2016)

What resolution are you playing at, out of curiousity?


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## TwinDenis (Jan 24, 2016)

R-T-B said:


> What resolution are you playing at, out of curiousity?


1200p but have tried lowering that as stated before, "regardless of in or out of game settings".



trog100 said:


> you will only get the high scores if nothing is wrong.. basically if the right score is produced running something like heaven it needs your graphics system all to be working correctly..
> 
> games can vary too much to be reliable loading tools.. have a go with the heaven benchmark and post the results.. it will at least give everyone something solid to work with.. make sure vsync is off..
> 
> ...



which presets should I choose within the 
heaven benchmark?


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## TwinDenis (Jan 24, 2016)

trog100 said:


> you will only get the high scores if nothing is wrong.. basically if the right score is produced running something like heaven it needs your graphics system all to be working correctly..
> 
> games can vary too much to be reliable loading tools.. have a go with the heaven benchmark and post the results.. it will at least give everyone something solid to work with.. make sure vsync is off..
> 
> ...


Okay so I did 2 runs, one with vsync and one without but with huge tearing. Here are the results:
VSYNC: http://www.filedropper.com/unigineheavenbenchmark40201601240556yessync
NOVSYNC: http://www.filedropper.com/unigineheavenbenchmark40201601240547nosync


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## vega22 (Jan 24, 2016)

from what i have seen win 10 really hurts older dx (32bit) stuff. but nvidia drivers seem to have more overhead on the cpu too


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## TwinDenis (Jan 24, 2016)

vega22 said:


> from what i have seen win 10 really hurts older dx (32bit) stuff. but nvidia drivers seem to have more overhead on the cpu too


It was tested on previous versions of windows as well, the best ones of course like windows7. Tested on both 32bit and 64bit.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 24, 2016)

So to summarize:
Using speccy:
http://s12.postimg.org/5aql84dt9/MA_Specs.png
HDD info: http://s29.postimg.org/oa6h7937r/burdeelllalallo.png
HDD benchmark 1: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/hddddddddddddeeeeeeeejiiiiiin-png.71358/
HDD benchmark 2: http://s27.postimg.org/r5q03fu4z/pppppppppppppppppppppppppipi.png
Gpu test GPU-Z 1: http://img.techpowerup.org/160123/gpuu-uuu-uu-uuuuu-2.png
Gpu test GPU-Z 2: http://img.techpowerup.org/160123/scaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamjbb.png
GPU Afterburner Graph with vsync: http://img.techpowerup.org/160123/1111111111.png
Gpu Afterburner Graph without vsync:
part1: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/one-png.71354/
part2: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/two-png.71355/
part3: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/three-png.71356/
part4: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/four-png.71357/


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## Aquinus (Jan 24, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> I have latencymon reporting me constantly that I have high resolution time on hard pagefaults


That's because swapping to a rotational media drive is dead slow. Simply put more memory will decrease the number of page faults that will occur. If you disable your page file and try running a game, I bet it will crash because you probably don't have enough memory to keep everything residing in system memory at once. The moment the system has to swap data out to the page file, you're going to notice it. If you're using 4GB on boot, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if running games was causing hard faults to occur. All in all, if you upgrade to 16GB you might see this problem simply go away. It's guess so don't assume that just upgrading will simply fix your problem, it's just a hunch.

I would monitor memory and page file usage while your playing a game and see what happens. I suspect you're using more than you think you are. I eat up more than 8GB on a regular basis which is part of the reason why I upgraded 4 years ago.



m&m's said:


>


You're welcome for using my screenshot from another thread.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 24, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> That's because swapping to a rotational media drive is dead slow. Simply put more memory will decrease the number of page faults that will occur. If you disable your page file and try running a game, I bet it will crash because you probably don't have enough memory to keep everything residing in system memory at once. The moment the system has to swap data out to the page file, you're going to notice it. If you're using 4GB on boot, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if running games was causing hard faults to occur. All in all, if you upgrade to 16GB you might see this problem simply go away. It's guess so don't assume that just upgrading will simply fix your problem, it's just a hunch.
> 
> I would monitor memory and page file usage while your playing a game and see what happens. I suspect you're using more than you think you are. I eat up more than 8GB on a regular basis which is part of the reason why I upgraded 4 years ago.
> 
> ...


Yeah well, how can I? it says that I use little, a bit more while gaming, the latency mon is always at red even when I start up.


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## Aquinus (Jan 24, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> it says that I use little, a bit more while gaming


More swapping means more performance hit, even more so if it's swapping while trying to read from the same drive you're swapping to. That really will hammer performance on a rotational media drive.

I would use the Resource Monitor (memory tab,) to watch the graphs for commit charge and hard faults per second. It is entirely possible that access latency for your HDD could cause minor stutters when resources are loaded in because HDDs simply don't have great latency compared to RAM or SSDs.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 24, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> More swapping means more performance hit, even more so if it's swapping while trying to read from the same drive you're swapping to. That really will hammer performance on a rotational media drive.
> 
> I would use the Resource Monitor (memory tab,) to watch the graphs for commit charge and hard faults per second. It is entirely possible that access latency for your HDD could cause minor stutters when resources are loaded in because HDDs simply don't have great latency compared to RAM or SSDs.


something like that on smite which has pretty graphics, I stutter more on heroes of the storm of course, and it is nearly unbearable.
Here is some example I guess of what you asked:
http://s23.postimg.org/hiw6g3qbv/resource_monitormemoryyy3245626.png

ps: how good are my results on the previous graphs?


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## Aquinus (Jan 24, 2016)

You need to monitor it when the game is actually loaded and running, not with just the launcher running. As in, leave PerfMon running, actually start a game, play for 5 minutes or so, then minimize the game for a minute and check PerfMon again. If it takes a long time to minimize, that's another sign that you're hitting swap space.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 24, 2016)

Am I correct that your game and Windows are on the same HDD?  I agree you are probably borderline for your setup for RAM, but I have another suggestion which might help.

If both OS and the game and page file are on the same HDD, the game might be trying to load game files, page out to page file, and trying to execute something in Windows which it says is important.

Try also moving that game to another HDD, even if just to borrow one, so you'll know if it works.  Do this leaving Windows where it is.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 24, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> You need to monitor it when the game is actually loaded and running, not with just the launcher running. As in, leave PerfMon running, actually start a game, play for 5 minutes or so, then minimize the game for a minute and check PerfMon again. If it takes a long time to minimize, that's another sign that you're hitting swap space.





rtwjunkie said:


> Am I correct that your game and Windows are on the same HDD?  I agree you are probably borderline for your setup for RAM, but I have another suggestion which might help.
> 
> If both OS and the game and page file are on the same HDD, the game might be trying to load game files, page out to page file, and trying to execute something in Windows which it says is important.
> 
> Try also moving that game to another HDD, even if just to borrow one, so you'll know if it works.  Do this leaving Windows where it is.


Here we go, fps was 28 because alt-tab:


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## Aquinus (Jan 24, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> Here we go, fps was 28 because alt-tab:View attachment 71370


Hmmm. Not much swapping action going on there and LoL isn't really known for doing on-the-fly loading of textures or anything. It probably isn't related to main memory or the page file.

So for clarification, it runs at almost 60 FPS but it occasionally feels like it skips?


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## TwinDenis (Jan 24, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> Hmmm. Not much swapping action going on there and LoL isn't really known for doing on-the-fly loading of textures or anything. It probably isn't related to main memory or the page file.
> 
> So for clarification, it runs at almost 60 FPS but it occasionally feels like it skips?


in lol there is not that much stutter, more is for heroes of the storm or other games, but yes it is 60 fps, it can fall at some situations like a team fight for split seconds, but yes it is not known for being heavy, It doesnt even have polygons on the details, it is all painted up, so no much gpu usage neither, but the animations are not as smooth as they should be at times. This game plays well even on older laptops. But regardless, I will get some samples from heroes of the storm too and bring them here in this specific post if that is what you wish.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 24, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> Hmmm. Not much swapping action going on there and LoL isn't really known for doing on-the-fly loading of textures or anything. It probably isn't related to main memory or the page file.
> 
> So for clarification, it runs at almost 60 FPS but it occasionally feels like it skips?


Here it is with heroes of the storm where I lag more than lol.


----------



## xorbe (Jan 24, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> yes it does, it prompts me to something like a third party driver. It is considered malware



Then there's something on your PC, if tpu appears to be serving malware?


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## TwinDenis (Jan 24, 2016)

xorbe said:


> Then there's something on your PC, if tpu appears to be serving malware?


again, it is the phone, not the pc.
How can it be a malware after more than 4 clean installs of windows.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 24, 2016)

should I buy a new motherboard or memory-ram?
if yes what model for my system? 
(my xeon all the other components of precision t3600 for gaming)


----------



## thebluebumblebee (Jan 24, 2016)

I'm concerned that you are trying to use a workstation for gaming.  That's a server chipset.  ECC RAM?


TwinDenis said:


> should I buy a new motherboard or memory-ram?
> if yes what model for my system?
> (my xeon all the other components of precision t3600 for gaming)


That system is proprietary everything, you'd need to start over.


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## Aquinus (Jan 24, 2016)

thebluebumblebee said:


> I'm concerned that you are trying to use a workstation for gaming.  That's a server chipset.  ECC RAM?
> 
> That system is proprietary everything, you'd need to start over.


I'm not entirely sure about that. It's only the Xeon version of the 3820, even if it's ECC, it's still quad channel and ECC itself doesn't tend to add latency it just doesn't overclock (usually), 1600Mhz should be fine. The question would be is it registered memory, which I doubt. I'm not convinced the platform is at fault yet.


----------



## Bo$$ (Jan 24, 2016)

All my games are on HDDs, i never have a problem with stuttering, might be your CPU or lack of ram


----------



## Aquinus (Jan 24, 2016)

Lets revisit one of the images the OP uploaded:




The amount of load on CPU 7 indicates how long the game was running but you can see before a quarter way into the the graph before the game has even started, there is load on the CPU on most of the cores. I would hazard a guess that something in the background is causing enough load to cause some issues. The op should try setting the process priority on the game to high and setting power options to "High Performance" to make sure the CPU stays clocked up. Before the game is running there is already a good bit of load on the CPU. I suspect that something else is eating up CPU time. The op should also shutdown any processes not being used that might be generating load.


----------



## Bo$$ (Jan 25, 2016)

List out all your installed applications and drivers...


----------



## lonewolf (Jan 25, 2016)

What are your video settings in the NVidia control panel?


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

lonewolf said:


> What are your video settings in the NVidia control panel?


every performance-wise setting and everything not needed off, like AA.



Bo$$ said:


> List out all your installed applications and drivers...


how.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> Lets revisit one of the images the OP uploaded:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


how can I know that? I used to review my processes and applications running in all my computers, especially old ones. When idle I dont see much activity.

ps: do you think I should order a new motherboard with better chipset? Along with the SSD I am about to order I mean, or new ram? or both? well this would mean the pc would be new and started over again, but dont know if it is necessary, if its actually its fault, I am concerned about this.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> Lets revisit one of the images the OP uploaded:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Here are some more graphs on when idle and being on chrome only,


----------



## lonewolf (Jan 25, 2016)

I think your dealing with a memory issue but I ask these simple questions because they are the most often overlooked ones. You have changed video cards a few times trying to figure out this issue. Have you done a clean install of the drivers every time you changed? then reset all settings for max performance in the control panel each time? also is this a tablet or a notebook we are dealing with?


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## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Bo$$ said:


> All my games are on HDDs, i never have a problem with stuttering, might be your CPU or lack of ram


Yes exactly right, I really wonder about it myself but as you can see from all those graphs above, I should be okay I think.


lonewolf said:


> I think your dealing with a memory issue but I ask these simple questions because they are the most often overlooked ones. You have changed video cards a few times trying to figure out this issue. Have you done a clean install of the drivers every time you changed? then reset all settings for max performance in the control panel each time? also is this a tablet or a notebook we are dealing with?


Yes I am 1 year into this stuff, I did play a lot around nvidia, even nvidia inspector at the end, I reverted everything and tried more than 7 drivers back from the latest one, non-beta ones.
I need to know whats up, is my motherboard okay? This would require money but at least I want to know where to hit and hit once, if you know what I mean, instead of buying a whole lot of components I need to focus into the game-problematic one, or ones.

While I indeed use it for 3D work I also use it for gaming the same way, thats why I am concerned, I was adviced to buy this PC back then, I told them I wanted to do some 3D for school and play games. So anyway, they got me this mode, of course at the time I was not into these stuff, because I got from laptop to desktop. Which was a wise choice as it proves to be. Yet again it was expensive. I should have bought an alienware or something instead at the very least it would have been a better choice. I really dont know.
But this thread is getting very active and interesting, I'm grateful.


----------



## lonewolf (Jan 25, 2016)

why do you have touch controls loaded if it is a desktop? you have a lot of things loading up in your processes it seems a little over the top to me.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

lonewolf said:


> why do you have touch controls loaded if it is a desktop? you have a lot of things loading up in your processes it seems a little over the top to me.


if you mean my tablet, it is important yes, what else? what do you want me to do?
But even so, I had the issue when I had my disc wiped out and only games in it, all other stuff I installed later on, still there was plenty of room for cpu usage if thats the issue.
do you want a process list?
Here is one of my process list from right now, keep in mind some of those I closed them in the past:
http://www.filedropper.com/list_2
whatever the system enables my itself is not monitored by me usually, but keep in mind it happened on by other build as well, it is kind of constant.


----------



## Bo$$ (Jan 25, 2016)

what mode is your SATA set to? ACHI or RAID?


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## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Bo$$ said:


> what mode is your SATA set to? ACHI or RAID?


I tried both, it will not make a difference for me.
for now it is ACHI, I tried also with or without the perc controller.

I think we are running in circles here, it is hard to spot the problem it seems.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Here is the nVidia Control Panel System Information, notice anything strange?


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## lonewolf (Jan 25, 2016)

The only suggestion I say to try is to change your global settings to high performance for all values. do not do it on a program by program. your asking the software to detect an exe and monitor it. may not make a difference but I have had good luck setting my global and not doing it by software detection


----------



## lonewolf (Jan 25, 2016)

The other thing is expand your windows so we can see all the settings not just the top few


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## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

lonewolf said:


> The only suggestion I say to try is to change your global settings to high performance for all values. do not do it on a program by program. your asking the software to detect an exe and monitor it. may not make a difference but I have had good luck setting my global and not doing it by software detection


that is really a common advice, I know its helpful to some people, but I already done that several times, as stated above.



lonewolf said:


> The other thing is expand your windows so we can see all the settings not just the top few


its no use, I tried all of them, and of course looked into many suggested settings.
I also played around nvidia inspector. The window of nvidia control panel settings cannot be expanded, or maximized anyway.

ps: tried to change the gen2 to gen3 pci bus but it did not affect much.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Okay so I made the change from pcieGen2 to pcieGen3 and it did not work as it was expected to.


----------



## Bo$$ (Jan 25, 2016)

Try checking your DPC latency, that could likely tell you if it's a driver issue (i used to have an issue with a LAN driver which caused games to freeze every few seconds)

http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml


----------



## Aquinus (Jan 25, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> Here are some more graphs on when idle and being on chrome only,
> View attachment 71381
> 
> View attachment 71383


Order by average CPU and watch it for a bit. Once again, there is already load on your CPU. New hardware isn't going to change background processes from causing issues.

Did you try setting process priority on your games (while it's running,) to "High" to see if it smooths it out?

Also everyone else needs to look at this what what it is. Something is running in the background. It's pretty obvious and clear cut as night and day. I would stop blaming the GPU or GPU settings. That's not the problem here. The problem is that something else is eating up CPU time that the game wants and the fact that idle usage is all over the place is the premier example of that.


Bo$$ said:


> Try checking your DPC latency, that could likely tell you if it's a driver issue (i used to have an issue with a LAN driver which caused games to freeze every few seconds)
> 
> http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml


That doesn't explain the load already on the CPU though because there is quite a bit to be honest.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> Order by average CPU and watch it for a bit. Once again, there is already load on your CPU. New hardware isn't going to change background processes from causing issues.
> 
> Did you try setting process priority on your games (while it's running,) to "High" to see if it smooths it out?
> 
> ...


yes not much of a difference. I also made it real-time.
now if you notice, the other cpus dont work as much as the first one.



Bo$$ said:


> Try checking your DPC latency, that could likely tell you if it's a driver issue (i used to have an issue with a LAN driver which caused games to freeze every few seconds)
> 
> http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml


As stated above, I already tried that, and its green constant.


----------



## Bo$$ (Jan 25, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> As stated above, I already tried that, and its green constant.



Try running it, while playing an audio file, or downloading a file, stressing graphics ,moving a file. you should be trying to find what particular task is causing any latency just to see if it is a driver fault


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Bo$$ said:


> Try running it, while playing an audio file, or downloading a file, stressing graphics ,moving a file. you should be trying to find what particular task is causing any latency just to see if it is a driver fault


okay worst at yellow, if you can find me better drivers for my computer which I doubt, then okay.
But there are no latest drivers or better optimization I could do, I am into this for a week now, lots of trial and error, as said above I have tried this.


----------



## Aquinus (Jan 25, 2016)

Bo$$ said:


> Try running it, while playing an audio file, or downloading a file, stressing graphics ,moving a file. you should be trying to find what particular task is causing any latency just to see if it is a driver fault


Are we going to keep ignoring all of that spurious CPU load when the machine is at "idle"? 
I'm not convinced it's a driver, this feels like a background process, maybe one that does a little bit of disk I/O?


TwinDenis said:


>


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> Are we going to keep ignoring all of that spurious CPU load when the machine is at idle?
> I'm not convinced it's a driver, this feels like a background process, maybe one that does a little bit of disk I/O?



I dont get you, this is not idle either, its browsing the net, besides I dont see much cpu usage from my processes. So here it goes.


----------



## Aquinus (Jan 25, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> I dont get you, this is not idle either, its browsing the net, besides I dont see much cpu usage from my processes. So here it goes.


Except it's spiking regularly. If I look at the same graph on my machine with chrome open, overall CPU usage doesn't go much higher than 3% where yours will occasionally spike up to 20%-ish. Your Xeon is basically the same CPU as my i7. Just because you're not catching it with that tool doesn't mean it's not happening.

Go back into the task manager and go into the "Details" tab. Right click on the column headers and pick "Choose columns" and check off "CPU Time". This number is how much CPU time each process has used since the application started. At least this way, you can analyze processes by total CPU time, not instantaneous usage. If you could send us a screenshot with and sorted by that, it may be enlightening.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

View attachment 71396


Aquinus said:


> Except it's spiking regularly. If I look at the same graph on my machine with chrome open, overall CPU usage doesn't go much higher than 3% where yours will occasionally spike up to 20%-ish. Your Xeon is basically the same CPU as my i7. Just because you're not catching it with that tool doesn't mean it's not happening.
> 
> Go back into the task manager and go into the "Details" tab. Right click on the column headers and pick "Choose columns" and check off "CPU Time". This number is how much CPU time each process has used since the application started. At least this way, you can analyze processes by total CPU time, not instantaneous usage. If you could send us a screenshot with and sorted by that, it may be enlightening.
> View attachment 71395


Here you go:View attachment 71396


----------



## Aquinus (Jan 25, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> Here you go:


You're not scrolled to the top. The real information that matters is hiding.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> You're not scrolled to the top. The real information that matters is hiding.


Recheck,
also I ordered online an

*Samsung SSD 850 Evo 2,5'' 500GB.*

I hope it is worth the price of 170euros


----------



## Aquinus (Jan 25, 2016)

This might sound stupid but, how does the game run with Chrome not running?


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> This might sound stupid but, how does the game run with Chrome not running?


do you think I have unwanted and not needed windows open when I play? -_- 99% of the time I play without anything running on the background, 60% of the time I have skype closed, in heroes of the storm I play solo so I dont need it. It is generally something that I know for a fact, skype interferes sometimes, but not many times, generally it runs the same either way.


----------



## Aquinus (Jan 25, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> do you think I have unwanted and not needed windows open when I play? -_- 99% of the time I play without anything running on the background, 60% of the time I have skype closed, in heroes of the storm I play solo so I dont need it. It is generally something that I know for a fact, skype interferes sometimes, but not many times, generally it runs the same either way.


No, I think that Chrome might have a plugin installed or something that could be doing a little more I/O than should be happening. It's also possible a service running could also be doing something similar since those were the only two to stand out to me.

What is SmartDefrag? Windows can defrag itself just fine, you shouldn't need an extra tool to do that. Windows is also smart enough to only defrag spinning disks and not SSD (SSDs don't benefit from defragging nearly as much as HDDs do.) Is it possible that it's defragging while you're playing a game? Windows knows better than to do it while you're using the system but, that tool might not. Something heavy on I/O wouldn't show up as much as CPU but, it could cause other applications to hang and consume resources.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> No, I think that Chrome might have a plugin installed or something that could be doing a little more I/O than should be happening. It's also possible a service running could also be doing something similar since those were the only two to stand out to me.
> 
> What is SmartDefrag? Windows can defrag itself just fine, you shouldn't need an extra tool to do that. Is it possible that it's defragging while you're playing a game? Windows knows better than to do it while you're using the system but, that tool might not. Something heavy on I/O wouldn't show up as much as CPU but, it could cause other applications to hang and consume resources.


OKay then this requires more research and monitoring I guess? I need steps in order to give you what you need so you are able to tell me what to do.


----------



## Aquinus (Jan 25, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> OKay then this requires more research and monitoring I guess? I need steps in order to give you what you need so you are able to tell me what to do.


Uninstall SmartDefrag. I would start there.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> Uninstall SmartDefrag. I would start there.


Okay, to help you out with that, I was having this issue way before installing even an antivirus, first thing I did was to install the game after the recommended drivers for my system, then saw the game being like that and so on, Smart defrag was the last program I installed to try and repair my pagefile. These high resolution hard pagefault times were not fixed though so yeah...

ps: what should I delete if thats the case in the details tab, what should I sort it to.?


----------



## Aquinus (Jan 25, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> ps: what should I delete if thats the case in the details tab, what should I sort it to.?


It's not always that clear, after CPU, checking I/O can be useful however, if it's an I/O related issue the SSD surely will mitigate it greatly. I recommended getting rid of the defrag tool because SSDs don't need defragging and because Windows can defrag itself with another tool just fine without ruining your experience. It's not going to help if virus or malware scans run while you're playing a game either but, if it's hard faulting a lot, disabling the page file should make the issue go away and will make it point to excessive swapping. An SSD will make the page file fast but, you run the risk of wearing out the SSD prematurely if it's happening too often.

Simply put, I upgraded to SSDs for a reason. Running on an HDD sucks. I bet that alone will improve your experience. I would consider upgrading to 16GB of memory though. More memory means less swapping as well.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> It's not always that clear, after CPU, checking I/O can be useful however, if it's an I/O related issue the SSD surely will mitigate it greatly. I recommended getting rid of the defrag tool because SSDs don't need defragging and because Windows can defrag itself with another tool just fine without ruining your experience. It's not going to help if virus or malware scans run while you're playing a game either but, if it's hard faulting a lot, disabling the page file should make the issue go away and will make it point to excessive swapping. An SSD will make the page file fast but, you run the risk of wearing out the SSD prematurely if it's happening too often.
> 
> Simply put, I upgraded to SSDs for a reason. Running on an HDD sucks. I bet that alone will improve your experience. I would consider upgrading to 16GB of memory though. More memory means less swapping as well.


I dont that I should have so much issue with this, I uninstalled defrag and I know it is not as good as my own, and I had it removed when i played so the problem remained, I have it to arrive hopefully at friday the ssd evo500gb as stated before, but running an hdd doesnt mean I should get THAT much stutter/fps chopping when playing a moba or an offline game, my pc is way beyond the league of those games if you understand what I mean, other players have no issues even running at hdd, now if the system has something wrongly setup by default that would be an issue indeed, I was hopping of tweaking around to fix it as well.
Also the I/O on task manager has many categories like write, read, bytes and such.


----------



## Aquinus (Jan 25, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> running an hdd doesnt mean I should get THAT much stutter/fps chopping when playing a moba or an offline game


You would be surprised, even more so when that's where your page file and Windows installation is at.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> You would be surprised, even more so when that's where your page file and Windows installation is at.


anyway I have had tried to remove my pagefile (even the hidden file gone) as stated way above, but it wouldnt make the latencymon go greed or orange at least. It was red even so, and as you can see with the info above, I have ran all the mem tests. Even dell ones.


----------



## Aquinus (Jan 25, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> anyway I have had tried to remove my pagefile (even the hidden file gone) as stated way above, but it wouldnt make the latencymon go greed or orange at least. It was red even so, and as you can see with the info above, I have ran all the mem tests. Even dell ones.


Stop looking at LatencyMon. I doubt your issue is with your network driver, even if @Bo$$ disagrees with me. The point of disabling the page file is to stop hitting the HDD when things are going on. Try a game with the page file off. If it crashes, you most definitely need more system memory. It's a test.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> Stop looking at LatencyMon. I doubt your issue is with your network driver, even if @Bo$$ disagrees with me. The point of disabling the page file is to stop hitting the HDD when things are going on. Try a game with the page file off. If it crashes, you most definitely need more system memory. It's a test.


On one perspective I tried this one, on other I have not really crashed. I mean I had it completely gone, the pagefile and its options. So yeah it will not make any difference for me, yes it was when I was playing.


----------



## Aquinus (Jan 25, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> On one perspective I tried this one, on other I have not really crashed. I mean I had it completely gone, the pagefile and its options. So yeah it will not make any difference for me, yes it was when I was playing.


You restarted after turning it off, right? It doesn't get disabled until the machine reboots. I just want to rule out page swapping to a HDD as the issue.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> You restarted after turning it off, right? It doesn't get disabled until the machine reboots. I just want to rule out page swapping to a HDD as the issue.


Of course I restart, how else? it asks by itself for a restart... why shouldn't I restart?....


----------



## Aquinus (Jan 25, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> Of course I restart, how else? it asks by itself for a restart... why shouldn't I restart?....


...because a lot of people don't restart when it tells them to if they're given the option to not restart. I don't assume things like that.

I don't know, at this point I would say wait for the SSD and then go from there.

Those spikes in CPU usage usage at idle still concerns me though however, I can't really put my finger on what it is.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> ...because a lot of people don't restart when it tells them to if they're given the option to not restart. I don't assume things like that.


anyway so it seems you suggest to never have the pagefile on, neither on HDD nor SSD for different reasons, and you suggest for a memory upgrade, the requirements however should be fulfilled with 8gb.


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## Aquinus (Jan 25, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> anyway so it seems you suggest to never have the pagefile on, neither on HDD nor SSD for different reasons, and you suggest for a memory upgrade, the requirements however should be fulfilled with 8gb.


No, with 8GB you'll want to keep the page file on. I just wanted to see if disabling it made a difference with the stuttering problem to rule out page swapping. If you had more RAM I would suggest leaving it off. I have mine disabled with 16GB.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> No, with 8GB you'll want to keep the page file on. I just wanted to see if disabling it made a difference with the stuttering problem to rule out page swapping. If you had more RAM I would suggest leaving it off. I have mine disabled with 16GB.


yes I understand that but again, other players have 8gb and hdd and have no issues. But I do.

ps: should I disable prefetch and superfetch from bios? (already tried but should I anyway?)


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## Aquinus (Jan 25, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> yes I understand that but again, other players have 8gb and hdd and have no issues. But I do.


Not everyone is as sensitive to performance in the same way. Some people like the extra frame rate not having v-sync runs with over the image quality and (usual,) smoothness that comes with vsync. So I mean this is all subjective pretty subjective. I don't see what you see or how bad it is. I can't say if I would be bothered by the same thing or if someone else would be.

Either way, you're probably right. As I said before, those CPU usage spikes has me wondering but I can't put my finger on it.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> Not everyone is as sensitive to performance in the same way. Some people like the extra frame rate not having v-sync runs with over the image quality and (usual,) smoothness that comes with vsync. So I mean this is all subjective pretty subjective. I don't see what you see or how bad it is. I can't say if I would be bothered by the same thing or if someone else would be.
> 
> Either way, you're probably right. As I said before, those CPU usage spikes has me wondering but I can't put my finger on it.


its not about sensitivity, its about what is playable and what is not, if you play in a extreme stutter you will not be able to play, or be competitive at it, but if you cant even play properly then it will be a problem, its not about pretty pictures, it is about if something is acceptable or not, a few minor things could be accepted like vsync or similar things but that doesnt mean I should have constant stutter, when having people with lower rigs saying it is not stuttering, these games should run like butter indeed, I mean this setup should play witcher3 on ultra and it can be done according to the requirements.
 But regardless My cpu usage is more on one core and very less on others,  why is that. Is this the problem? but how can we see for cpu usage spikes? I dont see much activity besides when in game, makes no sense, only one core works at its peak and the others support the leftover work, thats how I can describe it, you can see it in my graphs, it is pretty much weird, and man, you picture, its so funny (had to say it).
So anyway. Tell me what more to do then. (I tried to unpark and make my cores be non-hyperthreading which did not work)


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## Dead_Again (Jan 25, 2016)

Thought I might add something here, as have owned CAD workstations in the past...

Dell Workstations are quirky beasts, especially the lower-end ones like yours. I would suggest installing the drivers from the Dell website (even if windows auto detects and installs own sets), then checking each one out via testing as @Aquinus and others have suggested. If they have no direct benefit, scratch them and move on. Workstations can indeed be used as Gaming Rigs, but they are very picky about running services, programs and hardware compatibility.  Even if others online have same/similar reported setups, can pretty much guarantee they will mainly be using gaming pc's, or at least non-workstation Rigs...

Also, even though that board fully supports quad channel, I have found that 2 sticks seems to work better.


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## Bo$$ (Jan 25, 2016)

@Aquinus I'm not opposing you in any way at all, just providing some alternatives 


http://forums.evga.com/GTX-980-Micro-Stuttering-m2274039.aspx

Looks like others have a similar issue to you

In my experience with a GTX780 microstuttering on RO2, was caused by the clock flucuations by the automatic turbo boost present on the card. (it wasnt even reaching 30% gpu load and was locked at 60fps but still showed lag)

Try this setting?



(sorry if i'm repeating solutions)


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## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Dead_Again said:


> Thought I might add something here, as have owned CAD workstations in the past...
> 
> Dell Workstations are quirky beasts, especially the lower-end ones like yours. I would suggest installing the drivers from the Dell website (even if windows auto detects and installs own sets), then checking each one out via testing as @Aquinus and others have suggested. If they have no direct benefit, scratch them and move on. Workstations can indeed be used as Gaming Rigs, but they are very picky about running services, programs and hardware compatibility.  Even if others online have same/similar reported setups, can pretty much guarantee they will mainly be using gaming pc's, or at least non-workstation Rigs...
> 
> Also, even though that board fully supports quad channel, I have found that 2 sticks seems to work better.


I have tried to play with drivers many times in the past, so yeah, I was with dell support on phone for many days so I know. Now they dont support me for doing gaming in the system, and what about ram? do you mean I should buy a 2 kit of rams and leave the other 2 slots alone? well this might cause trouble for me isnt it? besides, how would that help. Anyway. I dont know.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Bo$$ said:


> @Aquinus I'm not opposing you in any way at all, just providing some alternatives
> 
> 
> http://forums.evga.com/GTX-980-Micro-Stuttering-m2274039.aspx
> ...


yes you are, and yes I did as stated twice above. I have tried 3 diffrent card in which one of them was the default one, quadro600 or something of course not for gaming so I added gtx770 and then bought an 980 as a replacement from gigabyte, well in any case in the forum over there different people have different problems, its not the same for everyone.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

So is it memory, gpu or cpu? you do not agree to anything so far, I mean it disorients us much more, I could buy a new computer with that logic and it would end there but this is not the solution, besides all that, buying more ram it would cost me almost the same ammount of getting an ssd, for the value we are talking about of course, which would be more than the one already owned, now why should I do that... I already made the order or ssd which rises many doubts on if this would help or not, some say it would and some say it will not fix the issue because it only affects loading times, which confuses things even more.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Okay guys I managed to turn my HDD from 3gb/s to 6gb/s by plugging it to the right port but still no improvement....
It seems pretty odd.
Could it be net problems? In heroes of the storm it does not happen on try mode, but in all else modes including bots It happens, but maybe the level is small too so I dont know. I contacted ISP and all that, no issue with the line neither, blizzard did not know the cause, they said this needs to be inspected by a technician or something. Anyway, it happens on other games too so It shouldn't be concerned.


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## Kursah (Jan 25, 2016)

Are any of the games you play where this occurs offline only?


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## Dead_Again (Jan 25, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> do you mean I should buy a 2 kit of rams and leave the other 2 slots alone?



Yeah, first try with just one stick, then two, moving the sticks back and forth....Workstations can often be very picky about what ram they accept  and perversely accept the most generic ram instead...Go figure!  

Basically, what I (and other TPU members) am suggesting is a process of elimination. There could be many or simply one solution to your problems, but we all are giving advice based on our own experiences. It could be that the problem resolves itself (randomly), or never does...This is why it seems so confusing to you, reading through each of our posts..


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## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Dead_Again said:


> Yeah, first try with just one stick, then two, moving the sticks back and forth....Workstations can often be very picky about what ram they accept  and perversely accept the most generic ram instead...Go figure!
> 
> Basically, what I (and other TPU members) am suggesting is a process of elimination. There could be many or simply one solution to your problems, but we all are giving advice based on our own experiences. It could be that the problem resolves itself (randomly), or never does...This is why it seems so confusing to you, reading through each of our posts..


it kinda is not approriate to run experiments on my workstation, the memory I use was fine as a 4kit, maybe if I get a higher mhz+lower latency one would be good, and We need to pinpoint the issue first in order to do something because if I want to experiment on that it would require money, and each component requires its own, we cant rush buying many types of ram sticks and test them, this will not work out at all. From what I have seen, the vengeance corsair sticks do cost more than 130$ and it will only prove that it is not ram related if it doesnt get fixed, the thing is we need to monitor it and then try something, but its more cost effective if I buy a new computer in the far future although it should run smoothly as it is.



Kursah said:


> Are any of the games you play where this occurs offline only?


lets focus on heroes of the storm more, because it is the game that stutters the most.
It is online yes. On try mode which is a demo mode for heroes to try out it doesnt stutter like it does on the quick match or vs Ai mode. So yeah.
I get a bit of lag when it finds my allies and starts to count down in order to go to the loading screen. Still it is very little in comparison on what happens in game, which is really getting me a headache after sometime.

I have tried out witcher 3, I do not recall something similar but generally didnt really concern myself with it, it was stunning, the visuals and all. But did not notice it perhaps or it was not there, maybe the motion blur was hiding the effect, I dont know.

There are 2 issues in games, 1 non smooth framerates but on animations and all that, like an internal framerate, choppy frames, cant describe it more accurate, and 2 there is a stutter. The both of them could be connected, since with stutter I mean the pan camera or any kind of panning I do for the camera in this RTS game is choppy as well.


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## Kursah (Jan 25, 2016)

This might be a good read if you haven't already: https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofth...your_game_stutters_and_what_you_can_do_about/

Two forums I'm aware of that you've ventured on, this thread is 7+ pages long now and growing...and yet you're still in the same boat. I'd say let's not just focus on one aspect when other things are at play here. If an offline game plays smooth and an online game stutters...well that kinda narrows it down. 

is the "vs AI" Mode in HotS is online?


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## TwinDenis (Jan 25, 2016)

Kursah said:


> This might be a good read if you haven't already: https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofth...your_game_stutters_and_what_you_can_do_about/
> 
> Two forums I'm aware of that you've ventured on, this thread is 7+ pages long now and growing...and yet you're still in the same boat. I'd say let's not just focus on one aspect when other things are at play here. If an offline game plays smooth and an online game stutters...well that kinda narrows it down.
> 
> is the "vs AI" Mode in HotS is online?


I am told that it is not, and yes I have read all about it, it is pretty old topic and new players have no issues with this game, or so they say, blizzard suggested me to see a technician about my hardware and tickets were off.
They say its "outside their scope", suggested me to just post in the forums where I got never the answers, they could not see the cause, they suggested to me to check with my ISP which is the obvious thing for me to do but phoning to my ISP all day about games will not make my games run smoother, they cannot do anything beyond keeping the line healthy, and the scores were good when I ran the tests towards the blizzard European servers.

So Blizzard and my ISP could not do anything and did not know what was going on.
I cannot say with absolute certainty that the issue is online, but lets start from there and see what happens.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 26, 2016)

I managed to take another recording of the game when being in a constant stutter, at the end of the graphs it is when I quit the game and started creating the screenshots.
So here it goes:


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## lonewolf (Jan 26, 2016)

If I am reading the screens right your ram and page file use is very high. I think the answers were already given but I have been confused since page 3 of this thread.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 26, 2016)

lonewolf said:


> If I am reading the screens right your ram and page file use is very high. I think the answers were already given but I have been confused since page 3 of this thread.


Getting confused leads us to nowhere. Unfortunately. But this is something pretty straight forward, we see the graphs we pinpoint what is up and fix things, after all this is what I had in mind too, as an issue at first at least. For latencymon to be red constant from the start it must mean something. I could buy more ram but I have no guarantee that it would fix everything. So yeah...

Ps: in heroes of the storm there is indeed an engine that causes trouble on some cases, as @Kursah pointed out on the famous reddit post, but this is only one game, yet it makes things worse I know. Basically it has to do with some way of lock-stepping for online games, which is fragile and easy to cause stutter in many cases.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 26, 2016)

Dead_Again said:


> Yeah, first try with just one stick, then two, moving the sticks back and forth....Workstations can often be very picky about what ram they accept  and perversely accept the most generic ram instead...Go figure!
> 
> Basically, what I (and other TPU members) am suggesting is a process of elimination. There could be many or simply one solution to your problems, but we all are giving advice based on our own experiences. It could be that the problem resolves itself (randomly), or never does...This is why it seems so confusing to you, reading through each of our posts..



should I buy memory sticks? I have been advised to not use 2 sticks instead of 4 sticks by the way. So it gets far too confusing. 
I could buy better memory with Cas7 and 1600mhz which is perfect and with 16gb but I am not sure how to invest now, 
I have ordered the ssd but can cancel it and buy the ram instead and maybe buy an ssd later, 
I have 1 day to cancel by the way.


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## Filip Georgievski (Jan 26, 2016)

Ok ill give an example that happened to me since i got something similar.
So since my board and CPU run at 1333 mhz RAM, and i got a sweet deal on 2x4GB Kingston Black Fury 1600mhz kit, i did something that amazed me.
I set the bios to push the ram to run at standard 1600 mhz, and.....
For my amusing, Windows started loading 20 - 30 % faster, games loaded faster, more fps, faster response of the whole PC overall.
Note that i run an WD BLUE 1TB HDD, so no SSD.
Can you check if ram is faster than what mb can support, so maybe it is downclocking it? 
If it does, open bios and push the RAM, it may help you.
Just a quick though at the top of my head


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## TwinDenis (Jan 26, 2016)

Filip Georgievski said:


> Ok ill give an example that happened to me since i got something similar.
> So since my board and CPU run at 1333 mhz RAM, and i got a sweet deal on 2x4GB Kingston Black Fury 1600mhz kit, i did something that amazed me.
> I set the bios to push the ram to run at standard 1600 mhz, and.....
> For my amusing, Windows started loading 20 - 30 % faster, games loaded faster, more fps, faster response of the whole PC overall.
> ...


This bios has no such options, no ram options whatsoever, and I own an 1333mhz one, thats what I know unfortunately...

Also seing in speccy, I found out this info:
Type DDR3
Size 8150 MBytes
DRAM Frequency 664.9 MHz
CAS# Latency (CL) 9 clocks
RAS# to CAS# Delay (tRCD) 9 clocks
RAS# Precharge (tRP) 9 clocks
Cycle Time (tRAS) 24 clocks
Command Rate (CR) 1T


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## TwinDenis (Jan 26, 2016)

Check it out:


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## Filip Georgievski (Jan 26, 2016)

Check CPU compatibility to RAM.
Reading back, you said having a Xeon.
What generation is it, what socket?
1st gen Core I (as mine) run at 1333 mhz.
Any gen above runs at 1600 mhz, 1866 mhz, 2400 mhz and DDR4 (Intel Skylake) 3000 mhz.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 26, 2016)

Filip Georgievski said:


> Check CPU compatibility to RAM.
> Reading back, you said having a Xeon.
> What generation is it, what socket?
> 1st gen Core I (as mine) run at 1333 mhz.
> Any gen above runs at 1600 mhz, 1866 mhz, 2400 mhz and DDR4 (Intel Skylake) 3000 mhz.


They are components which came with my computer:


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## TwinDenis (Jan 26, 2016)

and here is the cpu I guess:


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## Filip Georgievski (Jan 26, 2016)

Culprit found. 
Sandy Bridge is newer than my I5 so it should run a 1600 mhz RAM or more.
Try RAM sticks that run at 1600 or more (maybe friends sticks or someone elses).
Definitely you will see improvements.

http://ark.intel.com/m/products/646...GHz-0_0-GTs-Intel-QPI#@product/specifications

See memory spec. 1600 is max.
Even if it does support 1333, using it to game may make it underperform due to slower RAM Memory.

You may work normaly on 1333 mhz for daily apps and maybe something more demanding, but full potencial is never acheved by slower ram.

Note: I even OCed ram to make it perform faster so i can game with more higher settings.


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## Ruyki (Jan 26, 2016)

I know league of legends can run 100% smooth with 800MHz DDR2 RAM and a mechanical hard drive.


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## Filip Georgievski (Jan 26, 2016)

Yes but topic says UNDERPERFORMING.
LOL works on basicly every PC.
It is a MMO game, and it is made to be plsyable for most low to high end systems.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 26, 2016)

Filip Georgievski said:


> Yes but topic says UNDERPERFORMING.
> LOL works on basicly every PC.
> It is a MMO game, and it is made to be plsyable for most low to high end systems.





Filip Georgievski said:


> Culprit found.
> Sandy Bridge is newer than my I5 so it should run a 1600 mhz RAM or more.
> Try RAM sticks that run at 1600 or more (maybe friends sticks or someone elses).
> Definitely you will see improvements.
> ...


I cannot borrow one , none really has better ram than me around me so I would need to buy one set, even if I do,I am not sure if it has to be 4kit or 2kit. I cannot find any locals that sell those 4 kits. Besides they are expensive to buy for just an experiment.


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## Filip Georgievski (Jan 26, 2016)

Maybe test it at a local store to see if it makes changes.
Maybe for a test it wont cost much.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 27, 2016)

Filip Georgievski said:


> Maybe test it at a local store to see if it makes changes.
> Maybe for a test it wont cost much.


This will not do for me, there is no service doing that. I prefer to spend a bit more money for a kit. question is, 2kit or 4kit of same size (if I buy ram it will be 16gb overall and 1600mhz with latency 7).


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## Bo$$ (Jan 27, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> if I buy ram it will be 16gb overall and 1600mhz with latency 7



RAM will always default to the slowest stick in the system both with clock and timings.

just make sure it's as similar as possible


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## TwinDenis (Jan 27, 2016)

Bo$$ said:


> RAM will always default to the slowest stick in the system both with clock and timings.
> 
> just make sure it's as similar as possible


thing is, should I buy one, is it necessary? if so should it be 4kit or 2kit? What would be more compatible with my xeon? How much least latency?


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## TwinDenis (Jan 27, 2016)

My target for ram (if I need it) would be the one I found on my country's stores:
"
*G.SKILL F3-1600C7D-16GTX 16GB (2X8GB) DDR3 PC3-12800 1600MHZ TRIDENTX DUAL CHANNEL KIT*
"
This model, would it do? Should I buy it, is it necessary?


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## thebluebumblebee (Jan 27, 2016)

Because of the propritary nature of that motherboard, make sure that any RAM you get is on their approved list.
Moving from 1333 to 1600 is not going to make that much of a difference - I actually wonder if you'd notice a difference.
I thought you were on the right track with heroes of the storm being the culprit.  I'd hammer that out before going back to this being a hardware issue.
: You could also use the Internet tools at http://www.dslreports.com/tweaks to see if it's a settings issue.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Jan 27, 2016)

thebluebumblebee said:


> Because of the propritary nature of that motherboard, make sure that any RAM you get is on their approved list.
> Moving from 1333 to 1600 is not going to make that much of a difference - I actually wonder if you'd notice a difference.
> I thought you were on the right track with heroes of the storm being the culprit.  I'd hammer that out before going back to this being a hardware issue.
> You could also use the Internet tools at http://www.dslreports.com/tweaks to see if it's a settings issue.




I agree with this. Be very careful of supported hardware that every manufacture has a listing of somewhere on their website. Getting faster RAM wont hurt as long as its supported. Also, getting faster RAM means you have a bit more room to mess with its latency on your system. (this assume that supported hardware means its had some sort of testing)

As a long time MMO player (20+ years), I have come to know that the first rule in performance has always been that "Memory is King".


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## TwinDenis (Jan 27, 2016)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> I agree with this. Be very careful of supported hardware that every manufacture has a listing of somewhere on their website. Getting faster RAM wont hurt as long as its supported. Also, getting faster RAM mean you have a bit more room to mess with its latency on your system. (supported hardware means its had some sort of testing)
> 
> As a long time MMO player (20+ years), I have come to know that the first rule in performance has always been that "Memory is King".





DeathtoGnomes said:


> I agree with this. Be very careful of supported hardware that every manufacture has a listing of somewhere on their website. Getting faster RAM wont hurt as long as its supported. Also, getting faster RAM mean you have a bit more room to mess with its latency on your system. (supported hardware means its had some sort of testing)
> 
> As a long time MMO player (20+ years), I have come to know that the first rule in performance has always been that "Memory is King".



what if memory is not the issue? can we risk that? lets say I have to know for sure. After testing and seing the requirements of the game, it seems like it should not be the issue, and yes moving to higher mhz wont make a diffrence, but moving to better latency and more ram overall would do, but more memory is only needed on editting because you know, those programs use it as cache for the queued stuff, in after effects it eats up lots of memory, in 3d programs not that much. 
So I would only need it if I was doing editting which I dont do. So basically yes, it could be their game (for this game at least).
I mean my latency is cool and internet too, they use some kind of lockstep to sync the client with the other ones, but I thought this applied to stutter when using physx, while I have it disabled, 
I also do not have packet loss or anything like that.
I have to figure out a way to fix this for that game, because I dont really own any other, yes I have tried witcher3 but you know, I dont want to play this game and older games work okay.
I guess I have to do a test for offline games again after the configurations I made, but if it is the game's problem and not mine (I contacted blizzard and said I have to check with a technician for hardware issues)
so basically they said its not their game. If it is I need to know how to fix it because not all players have this kind of issue. But this kind of stutter is one of the 2 I experience on my pc, the 2nd one is not smooth motion, kinda like playing with lower frames. I mean the animations feel snappy.
My issue with benchmark is that in the heaven benchmark for example it only seemed to test my graphics card if I am not mistaken.
You can see my results above with pcie gen2 (changed it to 3 with a patch but if you know a way to do it and to make sure it runs as gen3 please let me know).
This may be a long thread but has all the possible solutions complied which I find it very useful for other users with related issues as well.


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## Filip Georgievski (Jan 27, 2016)

Memory to a PC is like Red Bull to a human. 
The more you have, the better it is.
But speed of RAM these days is i think more important.
4 GB 2400 mhz is the same as 8 GB 1333 mhz in gaming. 
Latency as well. It makes your sistem more responsive in apps, games, etc.
It will make a difference.
About HOTS, well it is an MMO game.
I plsy it with no difference online or offline.
60FPS all the way.
Maxed out.
Ok, try to set the game's affinity to high in task manager, also reset settings to default in game, sometimes this helpes.
Also try running something harder, as i said previously, maybe Witcher 3 or Dying Light, BF 3 and 4, do some testing of other heavier games.
Also you can try WOW, since it is still a preety demanding game, maxed out.
Now that i think about your hardware a little, i was wondering if someone here on TPU are gaming on Xeons and can help you out more about it since is a server CPU, not ment for gaming.

Edit: Forgot to mention. Can you disable HT on that Xeon, run it as a true 4 core CPU. HT doesn't make any difference ingame, and in some cases can run games on a 1 thread (half core) instead if a full single core. Maybe this can be an issue. 
Had this similar issue on my old I3 540, dual core, 4 threads.
Games like BF3 and 4 ran great but some games not well optimized ran on 1 thread or half core which cripled the performance.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Jan 27, 2016)

Wow. Lets keep it simple here.  Stepping up to 16gb is never bad, in fact its probably better for overall gaming, not just the the current games you play, but for future games you _might play_.  Being round MMO's you tend to learn certain things, like what a memory leak is and how it can impact your play experience. That's not what I'm saying your problem is, at all.  I dont know what your malfunction is, but since 8gb of memory now is like saying your playing on a Pentium III.  You can see my system, its barely average compared to the people I play games with where 64gb memory is the standard, as is, top end cards and water cooling just so they can overclock the crap out of thier systems just for gaming. Also, keep in mind that the developers are not always perfect, sometimes they roll out a patch/update/(whatev), that causes a lot of performance issues. 

tl;dr Upgrade your memory to 16 or 32gb.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 27, 2016)

Filip Georgievski said:


> Memory to a PC is like Red Bull to a human.
> The more you have, the better it is.
> But speed of RAM these days is i think more important.
> 4 GB 2400 mhz is the same as 8 GB 1333 mhz in gaming.
> ...





DeathtoGnomes said:


> Wow. Lets keep it simple here.  Stepping up to 16gb is never bad, in fact its probably better for overall gaming, not just the the current games you play, but for future games you _might play_.  Being round MMO's you tend to learn certain things, like what a memory leak is and how it can impact your play experience. That's not what I'm saying your problem is, at all.  I dont know what your malfunction is, but since 8gb of memory now is like saying your playing on a Pentium III.  You can see my system, its barely average compared to the people I play games with where 64gb memory is the standard, as is, top end cards and water cooling just so they can overclock the crap out of thier systems just for gaming. Also, keep in mind that the developers are not always perfect, sometimes they roll out a patch/update/(whatev), that causes a lot of performance issues.
> 
> tl;dr Upgrade your memory to 16 or 32gb.



I already ordered an ssd, should I cancel and order a ram instead?
what if I dont get more ram? In heroes of the storm case for example will it fix the issue? I mean fix it, not make it look a bit better.
In games I get around 60% usage max of ram, more than that it would be stacking programs in my ram cache which is not needed.
Also, should I get the 2kit or 4kit if sometime I can invest in ram?


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## Ruyki (Jan 27, 2016)

I feel bad for you OP. Some of the advice here is misleading.

So I'll help. Not by telling you what the problem since I haven't figured that out.

You see, if I had a hard to pinpoint problem like this I would probably benchmark each individual component and compare results with what I find online. Any discrepancy may help pinpoint the issue. I think you already did the hard drive which turned out to be ok.


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## m&m's (Jan 27, 2016)

Filip Georgievski said:


> 4 GB 2400 mhz is the same as 8 GB 1333 mhz in gaming.


Hogwash, complete hogwash. It doesn't make any sense.


DeathtoGnomes said:


> 8gb of memory now is like saying your playing on a Pentium III
> 64gb memory is the standard


More bullshits.

@TwinDenis going from 1333MHz to 1600MHz won't make any difference and more RAM won't do anything if you don't exceed 8GB of RAM usage.

Post#70, we can see that your max ram usage was 4.8GB which means that 3.2GB were still available.

EDIT: Install the following drivers: http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/19/Drivers/DriversDetails?driverId=7R4RM
http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/19/Drivers/DriversDetails?driverId=NNGMH
http://www.dell.com/support/home/us...precision-t3600&languageCode=EN&categoryId=CS


----------



## xorbe (Jan 27, 2016)

The advice in this thread is epic crazy.  Maybe you just need to change your psu fluid.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 28, 2016)

m&m's said:


> Hogwash, complete hogwash. It doesn't make any sense.
> 
> More bullshits.
> 
> ...


I had those when I first installed my OS but I did have so much latency I had to switch, but either of them made any difference really. Would I install them again and end up with even more latency spikes, now at least it is balanced out, keep in mind that dell have no up to date drivers, they told me so by phone. They may be compatible but that doesnt mean they are up to date and not conflicting.



xorbe said:


> The advice in this thread is epic crazy.  Maybe you just need to change your psu fluid.



you can see my psu right? over the first 2 pages, check it out.


----------



## m&m's (Jan 28, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> I had those when I first installed my OS but I did have so much latency I had to switch, but either of them made any difference really. Would I install them again and end up with even more latency spikes, now at least it is balanced out, keep in mind that dell have no up to date drivers, they told me so by phone. They may be compatible but that doesnt mean they are up to date and not conflicting.



Then install this one directly from Intel: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25016/Network-Adapter-Driver-for-Windows-10



TwinDenis said:


> you can see my psu right? over the first 2 pages, check it out.







Do I really have to tell you that there's no fluid in a PSU and that he was mocking the stupid suggestions some people have given you?


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 28, 2016)

m&m's said:


> Then install this one directly from Intel: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25016/Network-Adapter-Driver-for-Windows-10
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know that I know, right?
Besides, The unfortunate thing is that I used the intel site driver as well, I have the latest ones now and am not dpc spiking any, its balanced, idle is green, when using something it waves in green and in lots of stuff it goes up to yellow. So I cannot find any more drivers, they are the latest. I installed many versions of the same ones to check on it. Could it be something else? My ISP says my connection is fine by the way, and that I have good ping values for the servers I want to play in.
Also, this was not just a simple camera stutter, that goes for anyone who would say that...

ps: lets keep the facts shall we?
What are the possible causes and what are out of the question as causes?


----------



## DeathtoGnomes (Jan 28, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> I already ordered an ssd, should I cancel and order a ram instead?
> what if I dont get more ram? In heroes of the storm case for example will it fix the issue? I mean fix it, not make it look a bit better.
> In games I get around 60% usage max of ram, more than that it would be stacking programs in my ram cache which is not needed.
> Also, should I get the 2kit or 4kit if sometime I can invest in ram?



IMO, do both.  Get the SSD now, it certainly cant hurt your current woes. Do plan on the memory whenever you can, but only IF you are upgrading, and go for the 16g (2x16gb kit) or 32g (4x8gb kit). Just make sure the memory you want is on the MB's(Dell?) supported hardware list found on their website for your system.



m&m's said:


> Hogwash, complete hogwash. It doesn't make any sense.
> 
> More bullshits.
> 
> *clip*



Ah, you missed the jest in my reply there, P3 was a speed deamon!


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 28, 2016)

Okay so , I installed my ssd properly, and only the proper drivers and the game, and it stutters again. Your suggestions?


----------



## Filip Georgievski (Jan 28, 2016)

Congratz on your new SSD. Use it well.
So again the studders apear huh?
So we rule out the SSD.
Ok, again im all about the RAM Memory or the Hyperthreading on the CPU.
The GPU is overkill for this game, so we rule that out. I guess the monitor is good so no fault there. 
Maybe try to turn off AA and Ambient in the settings, see if that helps out.
Also try to turn Vsync off and see if that helps.

I did some tests yesterday on this game, just for the sake of this thread, and my system did not make any problems.
Setup at FHD 1920:1080, all maxed out.
Fps stayed at 60, with no stuttering or any other visual problem. 
So i tried turning off effects and stuff and still no such problem apeared.
Note that i also have 8GB RAM, but mine runs on 1600 mhz clock, and my I5 750 is overclocked to 3.3.
Now i disabled my OC profile, and restarted, went in game in default mode, RAM at 1333 mhz and CPU on 2.6 ghz and still no stutter.
So by this, i suspect GPU throttling, or maybe, just maybe your MB, since it hasn't many options to tweak your PC, maybe this holds you back, as judging by the Xeon, it may very well be a server board, and that is not very ideal for gaming.


----------



## Aquinus (Jan 28, 2016)

People, remember this is an E5 Xeon in a workstation. If the OP has ECC memory already, he should stick with ECC. Getting anything faster than 1600 for a Dell workstation is asking for incompatibility issues. Two sets of something like this might be a better option for a memory upgrade: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148677 With 4 DIMMs at least the OP retains quad-channel.

Simply put, not only is an E5 Xeon, it's a Dell. It won't be doing any overclocking anytime soon.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 28, 2016)

Filip Georgievski said:


> Congratz on your new SSD. Use it well.
> So again the studders apear huh?
> So we rule out the SSD.
> Ok, again im all about the RAM Memory or the Hyperthreading on the CPU.
> ...


all of these I already know and tried, and already suggested above, well its not about high performance, its about playing normally, but it stutters and is unplayable.



Aquinus said:


> People, remember this is an E5 Xeon in a workstation. If the OP has ECC memory already, he should stick with ECC. Getting anything faster than 1600 for a Dell workstation is asking for incompatibility issues. Two sets of something like this might be a better option for a memory upgrade: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148677
> 
> Simply put, not only is an E5 Xeon, it's a Dell. It won't be doing any overclocking anytime soon.


doesnt this have a bit more latency?
The fact that it is a xeon shouldnt mean I have to stutter like that, it is just a little bit of drawback, but this experience is insanely bad for this machine.


----------



## Aquinus (Jan 28, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> doesnt this have a bit more latency?


You have a server CPU, you can't just throw any memory you want into it and simply expect it to just work. Usually something that adheres to JEDEC spec with ECC that's unregistered is going to work well for a Xeon workstation. I would worry less about timings and latency because you don't really have much flexibility in the first place. ECC memory itself doesn't add latency, registered memory does but this is unregistered. ECC only adds an extra DRAM module to store the ECC parity bit for each word in system memory. It's for error correction.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 28, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> You have a server CPU, you can't just throw any memory you want into it and simply expect it to just work. Usually something that adheres to JEDEC spec with ECC that's unregistered is going to work well for a Xeon workstation. I would worry less about timings and latency because you don't really have much flexibility in the first place. ECC memory itself doesn't add latency, registered memory does but this is unregistered. ECC only adds an extra DRAM module to store the ECC parity bit for each word in system memory. It's for error correction.


so what is the problem then? since it is not their game or my pc, I dont get it, I should run fine these games.


----------



## Aquinus (Jan 28, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> so what is the problem then? since it is not their game or my pc, I dont get it, I should run fine these games.


As I said before, all of that CPU load at idle is what has me concerned because the same spikes persist while you're playing a game. I don't know what it is caused by and I'm not really sure where else to look. I had said that earlier. I was only commenting on memory since someone brought it up.


----------



## Warrgarbl (Jan 28, 2016)

I don't know if this was suggested already (sorry, long thread with big posts) - but have you tried logging your system activity with a process monitor like https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/processmonitor.aspx?

If there is something that is unduly using resources this tool will probably show it. I use it a lot to fix misbehaving systems because it allows the filtering of processes for several criteria like CPU activity, write activity, registry activity... I suggest you run it for 30-60 minutes and then have a look at what it logged.


----------



## Mindweaver (Jan 28, 2016)

@TwinDenis you should fill out your system specs here. This will allow others to help you easier in the future.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 28, 2016)

Is there any benchmark I can run to check on more than the Gpu while gaming?


----------



## xorbe (Jan 28, 2016)

Get the right tool for the job -- ditch the server, and get a gaming motherboard and fast ram.  Instead, you bought an SSD ...


----------



## erocker (Jan 28, 2016)

CPU temperatures under load/while gaming?


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 28, 2016)

xorbe said:


> Get the right tool for the job -- ditch the server, and get a gaming motherboard and fast ram.  Instead, you bought an SSD ...


are you even reading on threads before posting? I asked douzens of time where to invest, I got ssd as an answer in the latest ones. I did not get any further respond. So ssd it was.



erocker said:


> CPU temperatures under load/while gaming?


i dont know what you mean, please look up the images, I think you might find something you are looking for.

as extra info I can tell you that in league of legends I get skipping frames when characters come from the down side of the screen, when they enter the screen from the bottom of the screen they skip frames in their animations, I dont get this effect when they enter from the top side, something is not right. It is kinda like internal fps loss. So it is not their game after all.


----------



## erocker (Jan 28, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> i dont know what you mean, please look up the images, I think you might find something you are looking for.
> 
> as extra info I can tell you that in league of legends I get skipping frames when characters come from the down side of the screen, when they enter the screen from the bottom of the screen they skip frames in their animations, I dont get this effect when they enter from the top side, something is not right. It is kinda like internal fps loss. So it is not their game after all.



I've looked through your pictures and have only seen CPU. In one of the pictures your CPU showed 50c at idle. There should be a CPU temperature option in MSI Afterburner. Tick that box, run a game and see what your CPU temp is.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 28, 2016)

erocker said:


> I've looked through your pictures and have only seen CPU. In one of the pictures your CPU showed 50c at idle. There should be a CPU temperature option in MSI Afterburner. Tick that box, run a game and see what your CPU temp is.


If you see them closely you can see cpu temps.
See the last 4 ones (the one named as two).

Using speccy:
http://s12.postimg.org/5aql84dt9/MA_Specs.png
Gpu test GPU-Z 1: http://img.techpowerup.org/160123/gpuu-uuu-uu-uuuuu-2.png
Gpu test GPU-Z 2: http://img.techpowerup.org/160123/scaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamjbb.png
GPU Afterburner Graph with vsync: http://img.techpowerup.org/160123/1111111111.png
Gpu Afterburner Graph without vsync:
part1: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/one-png.71354/
part2: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/two-png.71355/
part3: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/three-png.71356/
part4: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/four-png.71357/


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## TwinDenis (Jan 28, 2016)

Alright so I go these results on 3dmark: http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/10505457
I noticed on physx it got low fps only, and overall the screen was not tearing but instead snapping frame to frame. 
Like 3-4 frames ahead, so it was kinda like normal motion then snap ahead and it was kind of a loop.
In the firestrike demo struggled the most, with all those vfx/particles and smoke scenes.


----------



## P4-630 (Jan 28, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> Alright so I go these results on 3dmark: http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/10505457
> I noticed on physx it got low fps only, and overall the screen was not tearing but instead snapping frame to frame.
> Like 3-4 frames ahead, so it was kinda like normal motion then snap ahead and it was kind of a loop.
> In the firestrike demo struggled the most, with all those vfx/particles and smoke scenes.



Hmmm, this is my Skydiver result GTX770M
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/9342320?


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## TwinDenis (Jan 28, 2016)

P4-630 said:


> Hmmm, this is my Skydiver result GTX770M
> http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/9342320?


It scores me lower but adds me higher, something like that, what could be the cause?
Probably Something seems to not be right here....

Only thing I see better is the Ram, but yeah...


----------



## P4-630 (Jan 28, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> It scores me lower but adds me higher, something like that, what could be the cause?
> Probably Something seems to not be right here....
> 
> Only thing I see better is the Ram, but yeah...



The differences of the detailed Skydiver scores:
Mine:





Yours:




You probably had vsync on.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 28, 2016)

P4-630 said:


> The differences of the detailed Skydiver scores:
> Mine:
> View attachment 71504
> 
> ...


Nope, as said earlier, I had trouble in the benchmark with something, check it out above, thats what happens when I dont have vsync on. It was on app default.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 29, 2016)

Can someone of you guys who is kinda expert on drivers find me the most recent and most compatible drivers for my system if my own are old? I used driver identifier with combination with driver booster but first thing I did before all that was install my own drivers from the list that dell provided, unfortunately they caused too much latency, besides optimizing the bios settings for better dpc latency I had to replace the drivers as well, or rather update them to more recent versions, no device is missing and I think I have all the drivers, yet I have to make sure they are all of them.

ps: I have already knowledge of the OEM website and their drivers, but those doesnt seem to help. I tried both ways, oem drivers and non oem drivers.

Well.... getting myself a pair of cpu + motherboard + ram would not do any good I guess... Too expensive for the value I spent on this PC... Back then I didnt have any PC so I got suggested by a technician for this one, with the goal of gaming and maybe doing some CAD as a student, yup, some...


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## Mindweaver (Jan 29, 2016)

Go here and put your service tag or express service code in, and it will supply you with all of the latest drivers for your pc. Download your Nvidia driver here.

Also, stop double posting and start editing your last post.

*EDIT: Here's the WIndows 10 64bit drivers to your PC/Workstation*


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## TwinDenis (Jan 29, 2016)

Mindweaver said:


> Go here and put your service tag or express service code in, and it will supply you with all of the latest drivers for your pc. Download your Nvidia driver here.
> 
> Also, stop double posting and start editing your last post.
> 
> *EDIT: Here's the WIndows 10 64bit drivers to your PC/Workstation*


I have done this, these drivers seemed unstable as well, as said above I tried them more than once, I literally spent a whole week trying to make them work properly and find the latest and most latency-free ones as well.

The drivers did not affect the performance.

ps: the dell website filters service tag, not exactly scanning my system , but instead getting the archive of the service tag and giving me what the system needs at the state it was supposed to be when it was shipped. If I swap parts it will not see them, but just recognize the service tag. Thats what I was told.


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## thebluebumblebee (Jan 29, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> I installed my ssd properly


So the swap file is on the SSD?


TwinDenis said:


> and it stutters again


Our worst fear.


----------



## Mindweaver (Jan 29, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> I have done this, these drivers seemed unstable as well, as said above I tried them more than once, I literally spent a whole week trying to make them work properly and find the latest and most latency-free ones as well.
> 
> The drivers did not affect the performance.
> 
> ps: the dell website filters service tag, not exactly scanning my system , but instead getting the archive of the service tag and giving me what the system needs at the state it was supposed to be when it was shipped. If I swap parts it will not see them, but just recognize the service tag. Thats what I was told.



So, you're telling me that if you change something in the system then the printed service tag will not update? Really? I guess that's why I gave you the link to Nvidia for your 980 that did not come with your workstation... Also, you did not change out your motherboard which you'll need the chipset drivers, nic and audio. And again it would help if you filled out your system specs. Good luck!


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 29, 2016)

Mindweaver said:


> So, you're telling me that if you change something in the system then the printed service tag will not update? Really? I guess that's why I gave you the link to Nvidia for your 980 that did not come with your workstation... Also, you did not change out your motherboard which you'll need the chipset drivers, nic and audio. And again it would help if you filled out your system specs. Good luck!


No, my point is that I have tried it and those drivers were kinda faulty, 
I have it filled up if you look...


----------



## Aquinus (Jan 29, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> I have it filled up if you look...


No you don't. He's talking about this.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 29, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> No you don't. He's talking about this.


yup, its filled up, whats the problem?


----------



## P4-630 (Jan 29, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> yup, its filled up, whats the problem?



Well, we still don't see your full system specs under your avatar....


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## RCoon (Jan 29, 2016)

@TwinDenis, you formatted your PC numerous times, correct? Would you mind listing the software you install immediately, and what software you currently have installed? I can't help but wonder if these bizarre driver searching pieces of software are somehow crapping on your system.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 29, 2016)

RCoon said:


> @TwinDenis, you formatted your PC numerous times, correct? Would you mind listing the software you install immediately, and what software you currently have installed? I can't help but wonder if these bizarre driver searching pieces of software are somehow crapping on your system.


clean install windows>driversfromdell page that the mod recomended me to from a external media>game>playgame
(of course including the gpu drivers)
Lets Just call it naked PC gameplay.
It is answered numerous times.
Yes tried windows7 and 10. no change. Swapped motherboard with guarantee, tried gtx770 and gtx980, Bought SSD and played from there, no antivirus or anything, clean install drivers (obviously).
Is it THAT of a problem that I run xeon instead of i7/i5? Kinda saw the specs, I have a bit better stats on that, and tried tweaking some related stuff around on the bios, various CPU states etc. Hyperthread, c-states, SpeedStep, even super fetch and all pre-fetching options, tried disabling the memory correction as well.
No idea really, this has come to be a mystery. Literally more than a year, thats why I call it tech challenge, I may indeed need a gaming pc instead but for the sake of specs, it should work for its value, It comes to be too odd.
I really dont know, My suspicions are, configurations, ram, cpu (powerful though), motherboard (more like its type but dont know), psu (Probably, or not?), drivers (up to date though). Out of the question antivirus/es and third party programs.


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## P4-630 (Jan 29, 2016)

You filled out your system specs you said but we still don't see it.
Go to your system specs and select "Yes" to show your specs.
Thanks.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 29, 2016)

P4-630 said:


> You filled out your system specs you said but we still don't see it.
> Go to your system specs and select "Yes" to show your specs.
> Thanks.
> 
> View attachment 71702


it is on yes, can you refresh it?
I had it like this since yesterday.

Ps: I also tried making my fans go highest speed, CPU was like 45c or something, but still stutter.


----------



## Mindweaver (Jan 29, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> clean install windows>driversfromdell page that the mod recomended me to from a external media>game>playgame
> (of course including the gpu drivers)
> Lets Just call it naked PC gameplay.
> It is answered numerous times.
> ...



The only thing I see that might be holding your system back is your ECC ram in gaming, but not in day to day tasks.. I've been maintaining Dell Server, Workstations, Desktops, Laptops, etc.. for decades and the T3600 is a solid workstation pc for cad work... but I would not have bought it for gaming. You should have gone with a 2011-v3 5820k or a 5930k system, by building it yourself or someone else. Main reason, because it's a Workstation pc dell only uses certified drivers that they certify to work properly with your system using the latest CAD software.

I would get updated drivers from Intel, nvidia, and realtek directly for their website. The powersupply in your system is a good workstation powersupply for workstation graphics cards that do not need a lot of power like your gtx980. I would swap it out for a higher end gaming PSU with a fat 12v rail.. Your PSU is only 635 watts and has a mult rail at 18amps each rail I would get a 650-850 watt single rail to feed that GTX980.. I wouldn't touch a psu with mult 12v rails under 1000 watts for gaming. Next, I would ditch the ECC ram and buy gaming 1600mhz non ecc ram (_Should still work fine for CAD use_). Next, ensure you are using the raid drivers for your Dell PERC8 HXXX Raid card. Check to see if you have the Standard Dell PERC8 H310 or Optional Dell PERC8 H710P Raid card and install the correct driver on windows install (that should fix your SSD issues). You don't have to use Raid, but you still need the drivers to see the 6 Gb/s. If it were me I would buy another SSD and setup a Raid 0 to take advantage of the PERC8 card. You can use AHCI, but ensure you are connecting your drive to the Motherboard SSD's and not the PERC8 PCI-e card, but the Perc8 card is better and has 4x SSD connections. Again, good luck!


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 29, 2016)

Mindweaver said:


> The only thing I see that might be holding your system back is your ECC ram in gaming, but not in day to day tasks.. I've been maintaining Dell Server, Workstations, Desktops, Laptops, etc.. for decades and the T3600 is a solid workstation pc for cad work... but I would not have bought it for gaming. You should have gone with a 2011-v3 5820k or a 5930k system, by building it yourself or someone else. Main reason, because it's a Workstation pc dell only uses certified drivers that they certify to work properly with your system using the latest CAD software.
> 
> I would get updated drivers from Intel, nvidia, and realtek directly for their website. The powersupply in your system is a good workstation powersupply for workstation graphics cards that do not need a lot of power like your gtx980. I would swap it out for a higher end gaming PSU with a fat 12v rail.. Your PSU is only 635 watts and has a mult rail at 18amps each rail I would get a 650-850 watt single rail to feed that GTX980.. I wouldn't touch a psu with mult 12v rails under 1000 watts for gaming. Next, I would ditch the ECC ram and buy gaming 1600mhz non ecc ram (_Should still work fine for CAD use_). Next, ensure you are using the raid drivers for your Dell PERC8 HXXX Raid card. Check to see if you have the Standard Dell PERC8 H310 or Optional Dell PERC8 H710P Raid card and install the correct driver on windows install (that should fix your SSD issues). You don't have to use Raid, but you still need the drivers to see the 6 Gb/s. If it were me I would buy another SSD and setup a Raid 0 to take advantage of the PERC8 card. You can use AHCI, but ensure you are connecting your drive to the Motherboard SSD's and not the PERC8 PCI-e card, but the Perc8 card is better and has 4x SSD connections. Again, good luck!


Thanks but, is it my cpu and motherboard a drawback that could cause stutter?
Also, I have used both perc and on board, I could get the 6gb/s performance using the sata-0 and sata-1 ports, they provided me with nagotiation of this value, The perc controller is the same but offers more capacity options, for like raid.
But I do not want to use raid, just to game on.
Nothing too special. I tried doing full high speed on my fans but did not work out either, it seems that the problem is not throttle either.
So what should I do or buy? Just need to optimize my pc for gaming and a little cad (again, not doing a whole lot of cad, I'm only student).
My main fear and concern is if I have to buy a new motherboard/cpu pack, essentially a new pc (halfway), doing the math it costs 600 or so, it would cost more with memory and psu.

ps: can we see if my graphics card lacks power? so I know that I must buy a psu?
You suggested psu and ram correct?
How much would it cost? what type should I buy for this rig and to be able to support future upgrades (if needed) but mostly for it to work properly and with no problems?


----------



## thebluebumblebee (Jan 29, 2016)

Mindweaver said:


> a lot of power like your gtx980


Since when is a GTX 980 a power hog?  The spec sheet for the T3600 says, "Support for two PCI Express® x16 Gen 2 or Gen 3 graphics cards up to *300W* *(total* for graphics)"
I have not seen a thing in this thread that indicates a power issue.


> I/O Interface Security


That's from the PDF.  Could that be the culprit?  Maybe see if there's a setting in BIOS to turn this off.


TwinDenis said:


> Is it THAT of a problem that I run xeon instead of i7/i5?


No.


----------



## Batou1986 (Jan 29, 2016)

You cant buy a new PSU unless you buy a new everything

The dell t3600 powersupply and case are  proprietary meaning no standard PSU's fit


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 29, 2016)

thebluebumblebee said:


> Since when is a GTX 980 a power hog?  The spec sheet for the T3500 says, "Support for two PCI Express® x16 Gen 2 or Gen 3 graphics cards up to *300W* *(total* for graphics)"
> I have not seen a thing in this thread that indicates a power issue.
> 
> That's from the PDF.  Could that be the culprit?  Maybe see if there's a setting in BIOS to turn this off.
> ...


Thats not logical, its not a precision t3500 but a t3600.
but if you are possitive its not a power issue then what else could it be? If you mean i/O Virtualization settings I have tried to play with them in the past. There are no Security settings about this.



Batou1986 said:


> You cant buy a new PSU unless you buy a new everything
> 
> The dell t3600 powersupply and case are  proprietary meaning no standard PSU's fit



still, there has to be something that could be done. If it is a power issue of course,
could it be that I could upgrade somehow, to similar psu.



Batou1986 said:


> Since when is a GTX 980 a power hog? The spec sheet for the T3500 says, "Support for two PCI Express® x16 Gen 2 or Gen 3 graphics cards up to *300W* *(total* for graphics)"



You mean for the pci only right? yes I think it could support it, but not sure, I read the sheet from nvidia and the motherboard indications, it was something like 255w each pcie16 port I think.


----------



## Mindweaver (Jan 29, 2016)

thebluebumblebee said:


> Since when is a GTX 980 a power hog?  The spec sheet for the T3500 says, "Support for two PCI Express® x16 Gen 2 or Gen 3 graphics cards up to *300W* *(total* for graphics)"
> I have not seen a thing in this thread that indicates a power issue.



Since I said it.. j/k Hey, like I said, "_What I would do._" you don't have to like it and he doesn't have to do it. It's a T3600 not a T3500..  Besides, it being a small form factor case @Batou1986 is correct that it's a Dell proprietary case and PSU. But yes @thebluebumblebee a GTX980 isn't a power hog, but compared to the workstation GPU's the PSU was designed for it's possible. Who knows without testing if the PSU is suppling what it says it does... Made on a Monday is always a factor... lol Again, I was just stating what I would do to figure out the issue. Of course I have multiple PSU's and ram to test it. Maybe he can ask a friend to borrow some ram and a PSU to test. In theory he could test the another psu by just simply connecting it from outside the case with a different PSU. I checked the connections on his boards layout and it has a 24 pin and a 4+4 Pin. If it's the PSU then RMA it and try another one. You know yourself that a faulty PSU can slowly kill a PC.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 29, 2016)

Mindweaver said:


> Since I said it.. j/k Hey, like I said, "_What I would do._" you don't have to like it and he doesn't have to do it. It's a T3600 not a T3500..  Besides, it being a small form factor case @Batou1986 is correct that it's a Dell proprietary case and PSU. But yes @thebluebumblebee a GTX980 isn't a power hog, but compared to the workstation GPU's the PSU was designed for it's possible. Who knows without testing if the PSU is suppling what it says it does... Made on a Monday is always a factor... lol Again, I was just stating what I would do to figure out the issue. Of course I have multiple PSU's and ram to test it. Maybe he can ask a friend to borrow some ram and a PSU to test. In theory he could test the another psu by just simply connecting it from outside the case with a different PSU. I checked the connections on his boards layout and it has a 24 pin and a 4+4 Pin. If it's the PSU then RMA it and try another one. You know yourself that a faulty PSU can slowly kill a PC.


yes but I cannot really swap psus without buying one, and besides, we need to test it inside the pc as well. I am not sure what I have to do , but borrowing another psu cannot be done, since no one really has any decent desktop and power supply to test it out. If only there is a way to guarantee that this is the cause I could try and buy a new one (if all possible).

Ps: is it a
(20 + 4)P Mainboard / (4+4)P CPU ?
I cannot find the 24pin one, except if it is read diffrently.
Also, in case I buy a new one, it will not fit in will it?


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## thebluebumblebee (Jan 29, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> its not a precision t3500 but a t3600.





Mindweaver said:


> It's a T3600 not a T3500..


IT'S A TYPO.  REALLY! FIXED!


Mindweaver said:


> a GTX980 isn't a power hog, but compared to the workstation GPU's the PSU was designed for it's possible


Like the 250 watt NVIDIA® Quadro® 6000?

Is this stuttering most obvious in HotS?  Does it do it in TRY mode? (sorry if I missed this somewhere)


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## TwinDenis (Jan 29, 2016)

thebluebumblebee said:


> IT'S A TYPO.  REALLY! FIXED!
> 
> Like the 250 watt NVIDIA® Quadro® 6000?
> 
> Is this stuttering most obvious in HotS?  Does it do it in TRY mode? (sorry if I missed this somewhere)


hahaha yes We know, seeing from the pdf we know you mean t3600.
It kinda is, both lol and heroes have it, on try mode? even if it was not, it would be irrelevant since it uses a very small map. To answer it , yes and no, this means that it is but not as much as the normal map.


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## thebluebumblebee (Jan 29, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> To answer it , yes and no, this means that it is but not as much as the normal map.


So, that appears to eliminate your Internet service as a problem, according to the previously linked: https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofth...your_game_stutters_and_what_you_can_do_about/
It does not appear to be a problem with your GPU, CPU, RAM, PSU, or Internet.  What's left are the games themselves or the proprietary/vertical nature of that system.


TwinDenis said:


> If you mean i/O Virtualization settings I have tried to play with them in the past. There are no Security settings about this.


From the PDF: 


> Security Trusted Platform Module 1.2 (TPM 1.2)7; Optional intrusion switch; Setup/BIOS Password; *I/O Interface Security*; Kensington®
> lock slot, Padlock ring, lockable power supply; Dell Data Protection | Encryption solution (available in select regions)


I'd turn off all of that business/security stuffs  in BIOS.


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## m&m's (Jan 29, 2016)

Mindweaver said:


> The only thing I see that might be holding your system back is your ECC ram in gaming, but not in day to day tasks..
> I would ditch the ECC ram and buy gaming 1600mhz non ecc ram (_Should still work fine for CAD use_).



ECC RAM shouldn't be more than 1% slower than standard RAM. I'm not saying your wrong but I would be surprised if it is what is causing stutters.

@TwinDenis to test if it's a RAM issue, you can probably disable ECC in the BIOS and see if it still stutters. 
Also, you can lower your RAM speed to 1066MHz to test if it gets worse.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 29, 2016)

thebluebumblebee said:


> So, that appears to eliminate your Internet service as a problem, according to the previously linked: https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofth...your_game_stutters_and_what_you_can_do_about/
> It does not appear to be a problem with your GPU, CPU, RAM, PSU, or Internet.  What's left are the games themselves or the proprietary/vertical nature of that system.
> 
> From the PDF:
> ...


It is not logical, it cannot be on all games, they cannot be all wrongly coded and engineered, it is not right.
I dont have any security setting on anyway, so what good would that make?


m&m's said:


> ECC RAM shouldn't be more than 1% slower than standard RAM. I'm not saying your wrong but I would be surprised if it is what is causing stutters.
> 
> @TwinDenis to test if it's a RAM issue, you can probably disable ECC in the BIOS and see if it still stutters.
> Also, you can lower your RAM speed to 1066MHz to test if it gets worse.


 I have turned it off, if you mean the memory error correction that is. 
I cannot lower the speed of my ram, by bios means that is.


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## Mindweaver (Jan 29, 2016)

thebluebumblebee said:


> IT'S A TYPO.  REALLY! FIXED!


I'm glad, because I was throwing all of your credibility out the door with that one.



thebluebumblebee said:


> Like the 250 watt NVIDIA® Quadro® 6000?


Yea, the Quadro 6000 is up their with the GTX980.. Sounds like you have all the answers, have fun I have other things to do besides justifying everything that I suggested. You should have just bought Dell gold rated PSU's instead of your SeaSonic SS psu's. Your 660 or 7770 surely don't need that kind of power.. Why on earth would you buy those over powered PSU's? Nvidia says you can run that 660 on a 450 psu.. I don't even want to think what you could get by with using that HD 7770.. I personally wouldn't suggest something I myself wouldn't do.

*EDIT: I said it's a proprietary psu so I don't even know why we are taking about it anymore.*


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## TwinDenis (Jan 29, 2016)

Mindweaver said:


> I'm glad, because I was throwing all of your credibility out the door with that one.
> 
> 
> Yea, the Quadro 6000 is up their with the GTX980.. Sounds like you have all the answers, have fun I have other things to do besides justifying everything that I suggested. You should have just bought Dell gold rated PSU's instead of your SeaSonic SS psu's. Your 660 or 7770 surely don't need that kind of power.. Why on earth would you buy those over powered PSU's? Nvidia says you can run that 660 on a 450 psu.. I don't even want to think what you could get by with using that HD 7770.. I personally wouldn't suggest something I myself wouldn't do.
> ...


Can you review my PSU? Here it is:
http://s22.postimg.org/jlkqadp4h/IMG_20160122_212442.jpg

I stutter even on League Of Legends, when something enters the screen, lets say I have my screen on a place, and a hero enters the screen, when they enter their fps is choppy, like really choppy. So yeah, its kinda stutter, but not sure whats the name of this effect, when they are moving inside my screen it is okay, in lol that is, on other games it happens somewhat like that, but more. It happens with the Ai/bots too


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## TwinDenis (Jan 29, 2016)

Dont know how this will help but I ran this too:
http://www.driverscloud.com/en/services/403179d3e9134daa9d9464f507205ea3-51/hardware-monitoring

ps: is there a way to enable pcie Gen3? I may be seing gen3 but I see on my monitoring softwares gen2 even though I read the motherboard supports gen3.


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## Kursah (Jan 30, 2016)

I would hold off on that kinda stuff. Let's stop this now...its going nowhere and you're not getting results.

This has gone on far enough and it is time for a reality check, as I don't want to see this drag on and on with no results and no answers...I as much as anyone else wants a definitive answer...but we're pushing a week, with hardware upgrades and no changes...that seems like a clear sign to me that either too much has been fiddled with in that system or it's just not capable of providing what you demand gaming-wise.

I feel it's pretty clear that your system is not built for gaming and this should be clear to you as well by now. With its current platform configuration, it is clearly setup for workstation/CAD use with error corrective capabilities. I agree with the above posts that some error and I/O checking settings could likely be causing some of the lag and issues. Gaming PC's don't need ECC RAM, so you could try using non-ECC memory. If you go that far, then I'd say buy a new case, MB, CPU and PSU and finish your new system off with the SSD and Graphics card that you're currently using. Sell your old system and move on.

I had mentioned a week ago (or close) that I felt the workstation platform you're on is the culprit. Honestly, you shouldn't have to spend weeks trying to sort out this issue. You're either extremely sensitive to this "choppy" situation or your system is so busy checking bits through RAM (ECC), which isn't fast RAM to begin with, though it should still do the job...but adding a layer of error checking to programs that rely on live speed and response performance could add some of the latency you've been trying to hunt down and it makes clear sense in that respect. This wouldn't matter so much with enterprise services and CAD design, but in gaming...response and latency are critical. That's not to say I haven't been able to get a system with ECC memory to be gaming worthy...but it doesn't seem like this system of yours is going to allow that to occur. 

I could be wrong here, but I feel your platform is holding you back and causing this issue...and there's no magic driver, there's no hardware combo, there's no magic setting (yet at least), and nothing seems to have changed how games perform on your system since this thread began it seems...or if there was a change, not enough of a change for the hours put in IMHO.

Sell this workstation, its the wrong tool for the job as has been proven by endlessly diagnosing the issues from all angles and then some. Buy/build a gaming PC, enjoy having the right tool for the job and be happy and game on with smooth frames and light duty CAD applications. So long as you aren't hyper-sensitive to this issue you've been describing...otherwise you may be doomed!


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## TwinDenis (Jan 30, 2016)

Kursah said:


> I would hold off on that kinda stuff. Let's stop this now...its going nowhere and you're not getting results.
> 
> This has gone on far enough and it is time for a reality check, as I don't want to see this drag on and on with no results and no answers...I as much as anyone else wants a definitive answer...but we're pushing a week, with hardware upgrades and no changes...that seems like a clear sign to me that either too much has been fiddled with in that system or it's just not capable of providing what you demand gaming-wise.
> 
> ...


you know it is not hyper sensitivity, really, it ends up unplayable in new games and acceptable in older ones or low end ones like lol (I mean really, its just painted polygons).
So why should I sell it as used? how much will this be worth, I dont think I can invest much money on it I know it is powerful machine and all but still.
I dont want to technically throw this expensive machine away.
Besides, I disabled the ecc feautures, correct me if I am mistaken, but it was a bios setting about ram error correction was it not? it made no real diffrence, its easier to track down the cause instead of suggesting sulutions, I mean, there are 2 ways of seeing this, one would be suggest every possible solution to all pc problems and the other to track this down, to point that it is that issue or this, is it temp, no, is it internet speed, no.
I respect your decision but still, I am a technical man of thought and see it through.
Many people say that I can run it and that much less that I cannot. But in the end of the day I want to know why I cannot, not because it is a server/workstation pc but because there is a specific difference.

PS: so what would you recommend me for a build to continue exchange the value of my own computer with something like it but for gaming? I know i7 could do great in games, especially the 4ghz ones. They also need new case, psu, ram and motherboard so all these can connect properly and run smoothly.


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## Kursah (Jan 30, 2016)

You don't need an i7 to do good in modern games, a decent i5 will do just fine.

I don't know where you're from or how your exchange rates are compared to the USD or what that machine is worth in your area...that is legwork you'll need to do.

ECC should be disabled via firmware as you did, but did you get all ECC and IO corrective settings disabled as suggested above?

What haven't you done to try to track this down? You keep trying to use drivers and driver scanners, which is a horrible idea... use the drivers meant for those devices as Mindweaver suggested earlier... I've seen those driver utilities infect systems to hell and leave them exposed... so use them at your own risk. You won't find a magic driver to fix your issues, if it existed you'd have it installed already.

I agree I'd like to know exactly why that is, but unless that system is on my bench, I can't see what else you can possibly do beyond another fresh wipe and install, if your system supported vPro maybe letting one of us look at your BIOS settings...but odds are you know them quite well. We could do a remote session too, but odds are that won't tell us much as we won't be able to properly duplicate the issue with a remote session. So beyond seeing what issues are present, it'd be a waste of time imho.

The end of the day you have the wrong tool for the job...a wrench doesn't usually work where a screwdriver goes. This is an odd issue because I have used servers and CAD PC's as gaming rigs before... so you have a unique issue and maybe as suggested earlier maybe your PSU is having issues causing clipping. There's theories we cannot prove because that machine is on your bench. And when you're not doing what we suggested, you using driver scanners that could add more shit to the equation than fix anything. Also sometimes with issues, it's better to have it on the bench to try different connections and verify the issues with another set of eyes ya know what I mean?

I'm not necessarily say you should quit, I'm saying you need to get the right tool for the job so you can actually game instead of spending weeks tracking why a machine not built for gaming wont....game.

I'll work on a build later... but I'd say stick with i54690k + Cryrig H7, Z97, DDR31600+ (more RAM is better than faster RAM beyond this point in gaming from my experience, I'd go for 16GB DDR3-1600 over 8GB 1866.), a decent 650-750W PSU, a decent case (Cooler Master, Corsair, Fractal, Phanteks, etc.), add your SSD and GPU. Call it a day.

You could go with the new 6600K, Z170a platform board and DDR4 if you need the newest stuff too. You don't even need a K-series if you don't wanna OC. There's options, it depends on your budget and your willingness to make a decision at this juncture. If you want more help, I'm sure more suggestions will come...but as-far-as diagnostics...you have a platform issue, there's processing going on in the background and unless someone is willing to verify you have a clean OS install, verify drivers, verify no infections remotely...there's really only so much more someone can diagnose imho. If I could afford it I'd buy that machine just to test it, and resell it to one of my engineers and they'd love it for CAD usage.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 30, 2016)

Kursah said:


> You don't need an i7 to do good in modern games, a decent i5 will do just fine.
> 
> I don't know where you're from or how your exchange rates are compared to the USD or what that machine is worth in your area...that is legwork you'll need to do.
> 
> ...


Okay  listen you have to understand that I got suggested to buy this machine by a guy like you, a tech, I said gaming and little cad from time to time because I am a student, we invested on this machine and so I have it but the more I do with it is game and then 3D, I mean I could do both but I am getting chopped in gaming. It is an epileptic effect for non-epileptic persons. Try playing a game that is meant for 60fps with 20 fps. It will make you dizzy. 
Anyway, while I believe I should make it a game machine, I also know I shouldn't sell a machine like that to just anyone and for any price. 
I had a clear image of gaming in the pc in mind, I was directive, the tech said I should buy an dell alliance, then he said allienware, then he did the deal for the precision because it was cheaper and still powerful, thats what I got from them and what made me buy this. You cannot blame me for not being what my job is not, I am doing art, not technical support or engineering to know any of this and you have to understand that and sync with me, I cannot give more money for a pc, the currency is euros, it was 2000e the cost of the machine.
I know that with just 1000e you can build a decent build and with 1800e more or less you can get a high end one in locals.

What should I do, it is a mystery from now on.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 30, 2016)

Kursah said:


> I'll work on a build later... but I'd say stick with i54690k + Cryrig H7, Z97, DDR31600+ (more RAM is better than faster RAM beyond this point in gaming from my experience, I'd go for 16GB DDR3-1600 over 8GB 1866.), a decent 650-750W PSU, a decent case (Cooler Master, Corsair, Fractal, Phanteks, etc.), add your SSD and GPU. Call it a day.



In case I find a way to do it and recreate my pc, should I use AMD? (the price is literally halved) Is there any drawback for a good gaming rig to use AMD instead of Intel? I need suggested builds to do gaming that is worth the gtx980 in case I will be able to swap PC. I could trade it with a person for money to invest in a better game rig, I will need your help for that one.
How much is my machine worth as a bundle in euros currency as (mild-used)? 

Sorry for that many questions, but you know, its my way of transferring accurate  information mind-to-mind.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 30, 2016)

Here are my bios settings, kinda the best picture I could upload


 :


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## m&m's (Jan 30, 2016)

Disable PCI MMIO and Dell Reliable Memory Technology.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 30, 2016)

m&m's said:


> Disable PCI MMIO and Dell Reliable Memory Technology.


pci mmio is on small, it can be on large too, these 2 options, dell reliable memory is tested as well, as mentioned above.
Unfortunately I got no results.


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## Azumay (Jan 30, 2016)

I think you have tried all that you are able to do. Open a new thread for build help and suggestions. Think about a new avenue maybe.


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## Ruyki (Jan 30, 2016)

There was a video on linus tech tips where they built a gaming PC from a used dual xeon server board. They had to cut off a little bit of a GTX980 with a saw to make it fit but otherwise it worked fine.

And ECC RAM should not have any meaningful effect on performance at least according to this article:
www.techspot.com/article/845-ddr3-ram-vs-ecc-memory/

So I wouldn't say that workstation or server hardware can not be used in a gaming desktop. Just not in this case as it seems.

Did you check the windows event viewer for clues OP?


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## TwinDenis (Jan 30, 2016)

Ruyki said:


> There was a video on linus tech tips where they built a gaming PC from a used dual xeon server board. They had to cut off a little bit of a GTX980 with a saw to make it fit but otherwise it worked fine.
> 
> And ECC RAM should not have any meaningful effect on performance at least according to this article:
> www.techspot.com/article/845-ddr3-ram-vs-ecc-memory/
> ...


Of Course.



Azumay said:


> I think you have tried all that you are able to do. Open a new thread for build help and suggestions. Think about a new avenue maybe.


And what should I do with the PC I already have? trash it?
Selling it no one will buy it, and the cost is in question too. I did the math for a good gaming pc it could be around 1000e without the parts I already have. Maybe more. So its just cpu, and all those stuff. I will open a new thread temporarily to get some ideas. But this will be open as well since I dont see buying a new PC any time soon.


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## Aquinus (Jan 30, 2016)

After 6 pages, I'm rather disappointed that no one has considered looking deeper into the OP's idle usages and have continued to blame things (like ECC memory,) that wouldn't impact performance like this. This is a screenshot the OP uploaded when the machine was at idle with just Chrome open.





I could put the OP's CPU in my machine and it would feel exactly like my 3820 as it's the same thing just in Xeon form. I don't have an answer but, I do find it really odd that there are CPU usage spikes *at idle on the screenshot the OP uploaded where the same spikes show up when the game is running*. I find it absurd that I'm the only person who finds that a little strange and considering the OP has said that it occasionally stuttered and where the spikes are also occasional, there there seems to be a relatively strong correlation between the two. Once again, I don't know what could be causing this, it looks like it could be a Windows service doing it but, the simple fact is that it's unusual for there to be so much CPU load when the machine is seemingly idle. At idle, my CPU usage is always practically non-existent, not spiking like it does in the screenshot shown above.

@TwinDenis: I don't think your machine itself is at fault. People sometimes are a little too quick to suggest a new PC as opposed to actually reading the entire thread and thinking about the problem a little bit.


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## BarbaricSoul (Jan 30, 2016)

by chance (no,I'm not going though 11 pages for the answer to this), have you tried a reformat/reinstall of windows without the old hard drive being connected to the PC (I see you got a SSD now). Maybe there is something on that drive that isn't suppose to be there (malware/virus dug in really deep).


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## TwinDenis (Jan 30, 2016)

BarbaricSoul said:


> by chan
> ce (no,I'm not going though 11 pages for the answer to this), have you tried a reformat/reinstall of windows without the old hard drive being connected to the PC (I see you got a SSD now). Maybe there is something on that drive that isn't suppose to be there (malware/virus dug in really deep).


Yes. SSD alone.
as said above 1 page before.


TwinDenis said:


> Tried windows7 and 10. no change. Swapped motherboard with guarantee, tried gtx770 and gtx980, Bought SSD and played from there, no antivirus or anything, clean install drivers (obviously).
> Is it THAT of a problem that I run xeon instead of i7/i5? Kinda saw the specs, I have a bit better stats on that, and tried tweaking some related stuff around on the bios, various CPU states etc. Hyperthread, c-states, SpeedStep, even super fetch and all pre-fetching options, tried disabling the memory correction as well.
> No idea really, this has come to be a mystery. Literally more than a year, thats why I call it tech challenge, I may indeed need a gaming pc instead but for the sake of specs, it should work for its value, It comes to be too odd.


Thats what I said to the Mod 1 page back.



Aquinus said:


> After 6 pages, I'm rather disappointed that no one has considered looking deeper into the OP's idle usages and have continued to blame things (like ECC memory,) that wouldn't impact performance like this. This is a screenshot the OP uploaded when the machine was at idle with just Chrome open.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here is my true idle state:


 

 



the moment I moved my mouse is when the spikes occurred in one of the cores, until then it was kind of a line or so it seems.


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## Aquinus (Jan 30, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> the moment I moved my mouse is when the spikes occurred in one of the cores, until then it was kind of a line or so it seems.


Make sure that the Intel chipset drivers are installed.
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/24123/Chipset-Driver-for-Windows

Also, if this is your machine at idle, what was the first screenshot you gave us because you said that was at idle too. I don't like being fed inconsistent information.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 30, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> Make sure that the Intel chipset drivers are installed.
> https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/24123/Chipset-Driver-for-Windows
> 
> Also, if this is your machine at idle, what was the first screenshot you gave us because you said that was at idle too. I don't like being fed inconsistent information.


you said it yourself, it was idle+chrome, imagine....
Yes I have the latest chipset already.

Also, it says when I try to download it that if I do so, it will downgrade.

ps: I got myself another monitoring software, here are some results before entering the game, while in game client.

Here are some more cpu graphs while in game,
branch hit ratio seems to be very high as well as stalled cycles ratio, I dont know if this is normal but would be nice to know.


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## Filip Georgievski (Jan 30, 2016)

I guess i lost track of this post due to being sick and vomiting for 2 days now.
I did the reading and seems like i got a little confused over your results at idle.
Spikes when moving the mouse? That sounds like something serious going on in your rig.
I got no clue what so ever now, but i still think maybe you should disable the HT on the Xeon, run it as a quad core, and see if anything changes.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 30, 2016)

Filip Georgievski said:


> I guess i lost track of this post due to being sick and vomiting for 2 days now.
> I did the reading and seems like i got a little confused over your results at idle.
> Spikes when moving the mouse? That sounds like something serious going on in your rig.
> I got no clue what so ever now, but i still think maybe you should disable the HT on the Xeon, run it as a quad core, and see if anything changes.


It is the same with or without HT.
Wish you get well then.

Should I do a bios downgrade? from a14 to a12 (default one)
It might not work but it is worth a shot.


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## Filip Georgievski (Jan 30, 2016)

Thank you.
Do everything that comes into mind.
It might help since we got no clue on what is going on in your PC.


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## Kursah (Jan 30, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> I don't like being fed inconsistent information.



This is a concern I shared too...

But after 11+ pages you don't find it a very odd that absolutely nothing has resolved the issue or even improved the issue(s) at-hand after all the suggestions (good, bad or questionable)? Keep in mind this is not the first tech forum or thread he's made on this very issue he's spent an incredible amount of time trying to resolve. Feel free to claim its not a platform issue...but in my eyes there isn't much left diagnostically except for the Dell platform. I believe this goes beyond simple drivers at this point...and I hope I'm wrong, but he's been trying all sorts of drivers since this thread began and likely before...hasn't fixed his issues yet.



Aquinus said:


> I could put the OP's CPU in my machine and it would feel exactly like my 3820 as it's the same thing just in Xeon form.



Yep and your platform would handle it like a champ and game like a beast because it was designed to, his Dell clearly isn't when it comes to gaming in my eyes from what results we've seen thus far. What you suggest here would've been my next diagnostic step a week ago, take this dude's hardware (CPU and RAM specifically), put it in a different build and verify performance metrics to see if the issue transfers to verify if we have a CPU issue, memory module issue, or a platform issue. He cannot do that it seems, and nothing anyone including myself or you has suggested has made a lick of difference in the mixing pot of the OP's Dell workstation along with the OP trying to do his own diagnostics and blending it all together and posting results. 

I haven't seen anyone prove or show that this isn't a Dell platform issue/design limitation here yet, and knowing it is a more budget-oriented workstation-class platform with Dell proprietary design from 2011, I am not surprised we're seeing performance/response issues in gaming. This machine was clearly not designed to do and keeps proving it again, and again, and again, as everything suggested changes nothing for the OP. OEM's design their boards and to stack em deep and sell em cheap, especially the budget options. They make design changes, cut out/gimp areas not necessary for their design intentions, use different grades of components (especially compared to enthusiast-grade boards), take shortcuts at the cost of performance that won't be noticed for the intended use of the platform. This is nothing new for OEMs as I'm sure you know. Again while I hope I'm wrong on this observation, so far the results aren't changing no matter what we suggest. That could still be user error, something that should've been RMA'd, or a design limitation.

My CPU usage has small spikes when I move the mouse around, honestly I don't think that's the issue here either. Granted I'm on a different platform altogether, but I have 0 issues while gaming. Those spikes would need to be more significant IMHO to make a realistic difference in gaming...but maybe there's a polling/cycle/interrupt issue that's causing the latency issues/stutter the OP is experiencing, but he stated it was more when something is loaded than when the mouse is moving...maybe we can try a PS/2 mouse if the board has a connection for it to verify. Seems far fetched, but at this point in this thread, that's what we're left with, trying everything for the sake of proving this machine can actually game smoothly.

@TwinDenis maybe you could look into doing an X79 build and reusing parts from your workstation rather than a totally new setup too. Would make it harder to resell the Dell if you were to do so. Hopefully someone will have a working solution for you. As I said earlier if this build were on my bench I'd be a lot more keen to diagnosing it any further. It depends on what you want to do, and how much more time you want to invest in this matter to see if a solution exists or if we're chasing unicorns.

On the BIOS downgrade, did this issue occur when you were on A12? I don't generally recommend this with OEM stuff, but if you feel it is worth a shot it is up to you.

Honestly as it stands right now if we're going to keep chasing this unicorn, I'd like to suggest another totally fresh start, format and OS install, fresh drivers, fresh testing. Using straight up WHQL Dell and Nvidia drivers for that OS. Be it 7, 8, 10. Use your SSD. Steer clear of the driver scanners and installer junk...please, stick to the OEM and Nvidia official drivers. I still feel it won't solve anything though, but a fresh slate might be worth another go here just so we can re-verify and resolve any doubts over previous results, and keep better consistency over the test metrics to be ran and analyzed. Maybe we can verify the data outputs and screenshots better so we're not making incorrect assumptions while trying to assist you.

Further research does show other issues experiencing stuttering shut of HT and were able to resolve that. But as you recently said that did not fix it for you... But maybe with the older BIOS + HT disabled it is worth a shot? 

Did you review the release notes for the A14 release? How about A12? Dell usually shows some notes, though they can be very vague at times so it's kind of a crapshoot...


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 30, 2016)

Kursah said:


> This is a concern I shared too...
> 
> But after 11+ pages you don't find it a very odd that absolutely nothing has resolved the issue or even improved the issue(s)...............................



Yes I have tried many things, its a year old issue, you know. It is hard to think of possible solutions, I have found solutions that even people from this forum did not say, like the pcie gen3 patch which was for my chipset, I dont know about bios and if it is causing issues, or their release notes but here is the driver page suggested by dell. http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/19/product-support/product/precision-t3600/drivers?rvps=y
I went to the one that came with the system named A12 from A13, I know there could be something wrong with it, but not sure.
I opened a thread that was closed about rebuilding a gaming pc, so people agreed that I could just fix this one instead of doing a new start (even with a new start the prices are shocking for the same tier of quality counterpart for gaming)
ps: installing older bios did not work.


----------



## Kursah (Jan 30, 2016)

People have agreed this PC will game, yet you can't without stuttering. None of them, nor myself or any others that have donated suggestions has solved the problem in the 11 pages thus far. Under many conditions I would also believe that your system should be gaming capable, looking at the specs I would assume that. I've had bad luck with OEM workstations like yours underperforming for gaming tasks, otherwise I wouldn't be repeating myself about doubting the Dell platform, if I had less experience with OEM's I would assume that they should perform fine.

Do you know anyone with an X79 build you could test your CPU/RAM in?

Would you be willing to start fresh again as I suggested in my prior post? Fresh format and OS install on your SSD, use Dell and Nvidia WHQL drivers. Might as well go back up to A14 firmware if you haven't already. Maybe even go into your Bios and load optimized defaults after upgrading, before you make any other changes in there save and reboot. Just the OS, drivers, and your games and what it takes to run them. I know you've done this...but at this point it's one more option, and a fresh slate approach after trying all the stuff you've done wouldn't hurt.



Edit: I'm not at home now...but do any of the games you play with the stutter issue have Linux/SreamOS support? Would you be against trying to game in a different OS to see if results are similar there? If not...load up Ubuntu 15 and that game and report back. Ubuntu is pretty easy to install and use and there's a lotta install guides and vids. Just a thought and a different agnle of attack.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 30, 2016)

Kursah said:


> People have agreed this PC will game, yet you can't without stuttering. None of them, nor myself or any others that have donated suggestions has solved the problem in the 11 pages thus far. Under many conditions I would also believe that your system should be gaming capable, looking at the specs I would assume that. I've had bad luck with OEM workstations like yours underperforming for gaming tasks, otherwise I wouldn't be repeating myself about doubting the Dell platform, if I had less experience with OEM's I would assume that they should perform fine.
> 
> Do you know anyone with an X79 build you could test your CPU/RAM in?
> 
> ...


I have tried doing fresh reinstall exactly like you said, since I have my ssd I tried this before anything else because I knew I had to experiment on that matter since I had to install it on the new drive anyway.
The OS solution seems away from my reach, should I do format again?
I dont think these games have support more than windows or mac.


----------



## Bo$$ (Jan 30, 2016)

Turn off HT?? It causes issues for some people??


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## TwinDenis (Jan 30, 2016)

Bo$$ said:


> Turn off HT?? It causes issues for some people??



this is said more than twice, yes, it is for some people a problem but dont know if it is for me, I tried running without it indeed. It doesn't help.

But since games are gpu+cpu based why would something like this happen with those specs, even with dell custom mo.bo. , it concerns me a lot.


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## Bo$$ (Jan 30, 2016)

it's more than likely that PSU... it may be gold rated but it'll hardly be the pinnicle of stability


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## TwinDenis (Jan 30, 2016)

Bo$$ said:


> it's more than likely that PSU... it may be gold rated but it'll hardly be the pinnicle of stability


The way everyone is suggesting the causes out of the blue will make me end up replacing the whole pc part to part. It is not logical, why is it that it is because of Psu?


----------



## lonewolf (Jan 31, 2016)

When every logical solution has failed then it is time for the illogical to take a front seat. I am a gamer and I have a fairly good computer but because of money considerations It is not as good as it could be. I understand the money concerns you have but as stated in this thread we have tried to give you as much info as we have and none of it appears to have helped you at all. I am sorry your frustrated but at this point those of us reading this post and trying to figure it out are frustrated to.


----------



## TwinDenis (Jan 31, 2016)

lonewolf said:


> When every logical solution has failed then it is time for the illogical to take a front seat. I am a gamer and I have a fairly good computer but because of money considerations It is not as good as it could be. I understand the money concerns you have but as stated in this thread we have tried to give you as much info as we have and none of it appears to have helped you at all. I am sorry your frustrated but at this point those of us reading this post and trying to figure it out are frustrated to.


I have tried things that are not mentioned in any of the 12 pages thus far, so I can assure you there are other ways as well that no one knows about. The problem is that most answers and suggestions are like the best way to describe it is "Base/Generic" sometimes common, what needs to be done with most of the suggestions is that we have to think, I know it sounds odd but thats my answer, and not think in a remember or recognize way, but instead thinking through, I know that fps drops could be caused for example from faulty drivers but thats not the case here necessarily, but this idea is generic and suggested so many times to all cases, the term stutter could also mean diffrent effects to anyone, for one it could be a lag spike to other it could be a split second fps drop or constant low fps snap/drop, for me I could describe it as choppy frames, the fps counters I used as well as in game show 59-60 fliping back and forth but instead the appearance goes to one similar of 30 fps but it could be more or even less than that and it is constant in most games and conditional on others,
so to help you out I will give you an example, in league of legends I get normal fps until the point where something enters my screen but not when I pan over something, when I pan over something it is minimal but when something enters, like an ai or a champion/hero it stutters a lot more, and anything that is connected to the character gets this effect as well, I had a champion that had tethers which were in the center of the screen for example, the character was out of the screen and I commanded him to enter the screen, when they did the tether and the character had choppy frames, 
I would average frame rate of the character at around 15-20fps, I could call it internal fps drop. 
In heroes of the storm however it happens when I pan over something but also when minions start spawning (but only a little) 
when battles start between heroes/players and pan over the area that it is happening I get huge fps drops, around the same, maybe less from lol but its very close.
I have heard for similar things before, and saw few t3600 system threads online as well about gaming, someone said they just disabled HT and it got fixed, well for them it worked out for me it did not, we have tools to check on the system, compatibility etc, if it is not copable of handling a lol game which is literally flat polygons and 10max low poly characters with dx9 only at highest(or low with 0 stutter), it is too odd to believe. I have seen people even game with the quadro600 on this game with no issues on medium settings especially. Something is fishy...

So anyway, this is useful information in the eyes of an expert and I am sure of it, in my profession I can usually answer something when I get the symptoms told in perfect detail. I wait for a custom answer not a pre-suggested and generic one, not because I dont appreciate it but because as you said all else are already told (drivers, fresh install, bios configs etc.). 
And of course make no mistake I am grateful that the thread is 12 pages long and keeps on going because it shows good things (unlike other forums that are left blank).


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## TwinDenis (Jan 31, 2016)

Guys, I ran passmark and in the first 2-3 seconds it crashed my windows saying in the blue screen this message (it is a reference to the code/not actual):




It only happened in Passmark.


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## 95Viper (Jan 31, 2016)

Try turning off windows defender... or, find the program that is messing with Defender and causing the page fault. The wdfilter.sys is part of Windows Defender.

You really need to re-install your OS with a legit copy and test, before you start adding all the other software... then, add one driver at a time and see how it behaves. Do the same for your apps.

In my opinion... whether you take my advice or not, without saying you have tested or done it, is...test the ram you have, thoroughly, and you may need to add more ram after looking at your resource screenshots posted earlier. 
As, you only had, like, 37MB and 1XXMB available free... the rest contained data, even the swappable (standby) memory is data to be compressed before swapping.
And, you should let windows manage your page file... the way windows handles memory now is different in windows 10, and 8, too, I believe.  And, this can impact a system that is on the edge of performance.
Windows will take your data and compress it when it starts running low on memory and when that gets tight it will start swapping to the page file.  This is done because compressing the data is faster than swapping in and out to the disks.  This takes time, also, but, it does not cause page faults to the disk.  As, you used to see some pages faults when windows had to wait to swap to the disk... with the compressing of memory, you don't.

I am not really the greatest at explaining things, so, maybe, someone else can explain all this better than I.


Try running without Malwarebytes.
Disable the HPET or Enable HPET, but be sure to do the same to Windows. It may help.  -->  TWEAK: Enable HPET (in BIOS and OS) for better performance and FPS 

 Just some of my thoughts...  Goodluck, hope you figure it all out.  As, this thread is so confusing and all over the place.


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## TwinDenis (Jan 31, 2016)

95Viper said:


> Try turning off windows defender... or, find the program that is messing with Defender and causing the page fault. The wdfilter.sys is part of Windows Defender.
> 
> You really need to re-install your OS with a legit copy and test, before you start adding all the other software... then, add one driver at a time and see how it behaves. Do the same for your apps.
> 
> ...


Yes I have dome this numerous times, 
HPET is not in my bios, and more so, I do not have defender enabled at all. I did this with clean install, one by one driver installation and without my security softwares or antiviruses, firewall closed as well, only the game. No difference and still pagefaulting.


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## 95Viper (Jan 31, 2016)

Since, you don't have HPET in your bios, then have you checked whether it is on in Windows or off.   Have you tested both ways... did you run the win timer test to see if it was synched?

I notice you say you have tried this or that or I have done that already to every ones attempt to help, so everything must be perfect and running right, so you should have it solved by now.

Have a good day and game on.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 31, 2016)

I had an issue with a momentus xt 750GB Sshd. It pertains to power settings in the drive itself parking the head and stopping the platter constantly, there is no software from seagate to fix the apm settings in the firmware. If you want a drive with fast load times go get a Seagate Baracuda, WD Black or raptor drive, I have a raptor and stutters since stopped.



TwinDenis said:


> Hi so I wanted to ask if I can and if I should upgrade for an
> "Seagate 2TB SSHD Desktop SSHD Serial ATA III Hybrid hard drive"
> I want to use my pc for gaming as well, so I need faster load times, I now have issue with stuttering in games when loading assets like AI spawn or other components like vfx, so yeah. I dont want to buy an ssd because of the $/gb cost, I would like to stick with in between solution to play games and have storage, but play games with performance.
> Here My specs:
> ...


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## TwinDenis (Jan 31, 2016)

eidairaman1 said:


> I had an issue with a momentus xt 750GB Sshd. It pertains to power settings in the drive itself parking the head and stopping the platter constantly, there is no software from seagate to fix the apm settings in the firmware. If you want a drive with fast load times go get a Seagate Baracuda, WD Black or raptor drive, I have a raptor and stutters since stopped.


it is already decided and changed the subject, I will now update my first post if I haven't already.


95Viper said:


> Since, you don't have HPET in your bios, then have you checked whether it is on in Windows or off.   Have you tested both ways... did you run the win timer test to see if it was synched?
> 
> I notice you say you have tried this or that or I have done that already to every ones attempt to help, so everything must be perfect and running right, so you should have it solved by now.
> 
> Have a good day and game on.


I will give it a try, Is this the one? http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/must-read-setfsb-o-c-game-problems-fixed.569893/


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## 95Viper (Jan 31, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> I will give it a try, Is this the one? http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/must-read-setfsb-o-c-game-problems-fixed.569893/



I never posted that link!
Did you even read any of these posts or just glance at them... I put a link in my post for you.    Here --> 281 <---


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## TwinDenis (Jan 31, 2016)

95Viper said:


> Since, you don't have HPET in your bios, then have you checked whether it is on in Windows or off.   Have you tested both ways... did you run the win timer test to see if it was synched?
> 
> I notice you say you have tried this or that or I have done that already to every ones attempt to help, so everything must be perfect and running right, so you should have it solved by now.
> 
> Have a good day and game on.





95Viper said:


> I never posted that link!
> Did you even read any of these posts or just glance at them... I put a link in my post for you.    Here --> 281 <---


Okay nevermind it did not work.


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## P4-630 (Jan 31, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> the moment I moved my mouse is when the spikes occurred in one of the cores



Have you tried a different mouse?


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## TwinDenis (Jan 31, 2016)

P4-630 said:


> Have you tried a different mouse?


It is not the mouse. Yes I did.


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## 95Viper (Jan 31, 2016)

If you are using the on board Ethernet... download the one for your windows version; and, install this driver and see if it helps your latency issue.
Download link, here, click on it-->  Network Adapter Driver for Windows® 10  Version: 20.4.1 (Latest)


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## TwinDenis (Jan 31, 2016)

95Viper said:


> If you are using the on board Ethernet... download the one for your windows version; and, install this driver and see if it helps your latency issue.
> Download link, here, click on it-->  Network Adapter Driver for Windows® 10  Version: 20.4.1 (Latest)


Yes I already have this one, and someone suggested it as well  2-3 pages back, it is the latest version, I have also tried the OEM one as well.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Feb 1, 2016)

I'd like to see the wiring harness and plugs for that PSU. I am curious how the gtx is wired, do the OP have 1 harness plugged into both power receptacles on card?  Actually I'd like an account of all plugs on all the harnesses. I'd like to know how the rails are delegated to which harnesses, that might be asking too much of Dell tho...


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## MT Alex (Feb 1, 2016)

When you keep mentioning a clean OS install, is it from a retail Microsoft disk/usb or the startup disk that comes from Dell?  Most manufactured install disks are crammed with bloatware that borders on malware.  Since you say you've tried numerous versions of Windows I was assuming they were clean copies, but you also frequently mention a Dell driver finder/site that has me wondering.


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## TwinDenis (Feb 1, 2016)

MT Alex said:


> When you keep mentioning a clean OS install, is it from a retail Microsoft disk/usb or the startup disk that comes from Dell?  Most manufactured install disks are crammed with bloatware that borders on malware.  Since you say you've tried numerous versions of Windows I was assuming they were clean copies, but you also frequently mention a Dell driver finder/site that has me wondering.


 It doesnt make any change. I have legit copy of windows and install it with all the system's drivers and thats it. That is for all PC.



DeathtoGnomes said:


> I'd like to see the wiring harness and plugs for that PSU. I am curious how the gtx is wired, do the OP have 1 harness plugged into both power receptacles on card?  Actually I'd like an account of all plugs on all the harnesses. I'd like to know how the rails are delegated to which harnesses, that might be asking too much of Dell tho...



If I didnt plug it properly my system wouldnt turn on, thats how my gpu reacts to not being plugged properly and that is why I added a cable. Going from 4pin+3pin to 4pin+4pin Directy from the psu to the gpu along with the pciegen3 it should work.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Feb 1, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> It doesnt make any change. I have legit copy of windows and install it with all the system's drivers and thats it. That is for all PC.
> 
> 
> 
> If I didnt plug it properly my system wouldnt turn on, thats how my gpu reacts to not being plugged properly and that is why I added a cable. Going from 4pin+3pin to 4pin+4pin Directy from the psu to the gpu along with the pciegen3 it should work.


I'm not saying you plugged anything in wrong here. I just want to clearly see how everything is wired up.

So how many 3 (4?) plug (molex or sata) harnesses are coming off the PSU?

I have never seen a 4pins+3pin, only 4+2 pins, most gpu cables are 6+2 pin some are 4+4 but those are more commonly associated as MB connectors..


----------



## Ferrum Master (Feb 1, 2016)

95Viper said:


> If you are using the on board Ethernet... download the one for your windows version; and, install this driver and see if it helps your latency issue.
> Download link, here, click on it-->  Network Adapter Driver for Windows® 10  Version: 20.4.1 (Latest)



No never. Don't use Intel LAN driver on X79 NIC, those have latency spikes and horrid disconnects. Intel has not fixed their drivers for years. Default M$ works fine.


----------



## TwinDenis (Feb 1, 2016)

I ran memtest86+ with no issues, weird... Why do I not have issues with my ram sticks when I have "pagefaults in nonpaged area"...
Maybe give it another try, but yet again I did pass/es.



Ferrum Master said:


> No never. Don't use Intel LAN driver on X79 NIC, those have latency spikes and horrid disconnects. Intel has not fixed their drivers for years. Default M$ works fine.


Actually both versions work the same for me...



DeathtoGnomes said:


> I'm not saying you plugged anything in wrong here. I just want to clearly see how everything is wired up.
> 
> So how many 3 (4?) plug (molex or sata) harnesses are coming off the PSU?
> 
> I have never seen a 4pins+3pin, only 4+2 pins, most gpu cables are 6+2 pin some are 4+4 but those are more commonly associated as MB connectors..


yes I mean 6+6 or whatever, the default of my gpu is what I did for cables.


----------



## TwinDenis (Feb 1, 2016)

Should I buy new memory kit?.
I got the exact problem again, it is not directed, it is not having something inside the "()", I got it again using burnintest by passmark.
here is The exact screen I got is this:


 
I ran memtest86+ with no errors, same for all passes:


----------



## 95Viper (Feb 1, 2016)

Ferrum Master said:


> No never. Don't use Intel LAN driver on X79 NIC, those have latency spikes and horrid disconnects. Intel has not fixed their drivers for years. Default M$ works fine.



I never had a problem with them... and, they give easier access to more controls/settings.  And, I have used them on plugin cards and onboard controllers  (on various motherboards and chipsets).


----------



## Ferrum Master (Feb 1, 2016)

95Viper said:


> I never had a problem with them... and, they give easier access to more controls/settings.  And, I have used them on plugin cards and onboard controllers  (on various motherboards and chipsets).



Just measure the DPC and see windows error logs. Decide for yourself. All of them suffer from it.

https://communities.intel.com/thread/54594?start=0&tstart=0


----------



## TwinDenis (Feb 1, 2016)

95Viper said:


> I never had a problem with them... and, they give easier access to more controls/settings.  And, I have used them on plugin cards and onboard controllers  (on various motherboards and chipsets).





Ferrum Master said:


> Just measure the DPC and see windows error logs. Decide for yourself. All of them suffer from it.
> 
> https://communities.intel.com/thread/54594?start=0&tstart=0


ok as said above, I have no issue with any of these drivers, mostly with my OEM ones but changed them to a specific one that has the same compatibility with my lan devices, so that is not the problem.
I have something posted above. Now if you excuse me interrupting.
This is no internet problem, dpc is fine stable greenlow to greenmid depending on what I ran, max goes to yellow and thats it, never red because it would also cause audio issues, so moving on.


----------



## 95Viper (Feb 1, 2016)

Ferrum Master said:


> Just measure the DPC and see windows error logs. Decide for yourself. All of them suffer from it.
> 
> https://communities.intel.com/thread/54594?start=0&tstart=0



I have...  However, I have never had trouble with them.  Sorry you have.


----------



## Bo$$ (Feb 1, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> So anyway, this is useful information in the eyes of an expert and I am sure of it, in my profession I can usually answer something when I get the symptoms told in perfect detail. I wait for a custom answer not a pre-suggested and generic one, not because I dont appreciate it but because as you said all else are already told (drivers, fresh install, bios configs etc.).



You've posted this problem several time on other forums since 2014, something is not working properly with that motherboard be it RAM latency, drivers or configuration. I will bet you will not find a solution for this issue. 

It is a workstation board so cut your losses and replace with something more suited to playing league of legends (maybe an old laptop you have lying around?).

As far as i can see 12 pages of help is more than all of your threads previous combined, everyone is trying to help you.

https://forums.geforce.com/default/...ering-with-high-end-pc-advanced-help-please-/
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/911089/stuttering-gtx980-heroes-of-the-storm/?offset=2
http://forums.eune.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=788632
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-2535051/game-lags-hdd-performance.html
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-2745194/dell-precision-workstation-upgrade.html
http://eu.battle.net/heroes/en/forum/topic/17288699994
http://www.techist.com/forums/f77/hard-pagefaults-help-276892/
https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/531769-how-to-change-ram-voltages/ <----- you already know the problem is the board. so why continue posting

Good luck.


----------



## TwinDenis (Feb 1, 2016)

Bo$$ said:


> You've posted this problem several time on other forums since 2014, something is not working properly with that motherboard be it RAM latency, drivers or configuration. I will bet you will not find a solution for this issue.
> 
> It is a workstation board so cut your losses and replace with something more suited to playing league of legends (maybe an old laptop you have lying around?).
> 
> ...


none of those are answered thus the question will continue to exist, they are all left out blank.
"
https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/531769-how-to-change-ram-voltages/ <----- you already know the problem is the board. so why continue posting
"
Yes, do you read anything related to that being the answer?

I see you want to troll or something. 

"It is a workstation board so cut your losses and replace with something more suited to playing league of legends (maybe an old laptop you have lying around?)."

Now seriously, league of legends can be run in any kind of pc after the models of 2008+
Laptops are a bad choice for gaming versus Desktops.

Anyway.


----------



## Bo$$ (Feb 1, 2016)

Also from your last screenshot timings of CAS31 are going to be causing this problem


And yes you can play league quite well on an old computer... it seems you are the one who is trolling


----------



## TwinDenis (Feb 1, 2016)

Bo$$ said:


> And yes you can play league quite well on an old computer... it seems you are the one who is trolling
> 
> View attachment 71799



I don't think so. Not in a long shot.



Bo$$ said:


> Also from your last screenshot timings of CAS31 are going to be causing this problem


Clocks are set to cas9:







Bo$$ said:


>



I do not see something being wrong there, neither it was answered.


----------



## Bo$$ (Feb 1, 2016)

Referring to this actually.. but it is likely a software bug

Additionally you'll need to run mem test for atleast a few hours, some sticks wont fail after one pass


----------



## TwinDenis (Feb 1, 2016)

Bo$$ said:


> View attachment 71801
> Referring to this actually.. but it is likely a software bug
> 
> Additionally you'll need to run mem test for atleast a few hours, some sticks wont fail after one pass


Its no use, one of my rams got broken just now, so I need to buy a new one anyway, dont know if its because I pulled it out or because it was faulty but anyway.
The fact is I need new ram, should I buy this?
*G.Skill TridentX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3-1600MHz Dual Kit (103$)*


----------



## P4-630 (Feb 1, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> Its no use, one of my rams got broken just now, so I need to buy a new one anyway, dont know if its because I pulled it out or because it was faulty but anyway.
> The fact is I need new ram, should I buy this?
> *G.Skill TridentX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3-1600MHz Dual Kit (103$)*



Let's hope that a new memory kit will solve your problems finally then


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## TwinDenis (Feb 1, 2016)

P4-630 said:


> Let's hope that a new memory kit will solve your problems finally then


yes  Lets hope,
is this memory model good for me? (2 modules instead of 4, each 8gb with cas:7)
Can you check?

Here is the link to the manufacturer's webpage for the product line:
http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f3-2400c10d-16gtx
Here is the Product:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009V50T7O/?tag=tec06d-20


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## Kursah (Feb 1, 2016)

P4-630 said:


> Let's hope that a new memory kit will solve your problems finally then



If it doesn't, he's a mainboard and PSU away from a new system!

G.Skill is my go-to memory brand still in many cases, but most of the well-known vendors have good quality DDR3, so if you can find a better price on similar rated RAM odds are you'll be fine. You might check to see if your system has a RAM QVL list but otherwise you should be fine I would imagine. Ya give us the link please.


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## Bo$$ (Feb 1, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> G.Skill TridentX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3-1600MHz Dual Kit (103$)



Check with dell. they should have a list on their website, otherwise check what spec crucial match for that system


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## P4-630 (Feb 1, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> yes
> is this memory model good for me? (2 modules instead of 4, each 8gb with cas:7)
> Can you check?
> 
> I will upload a link to the product shortly in this post...



Pick memory that's preferably on the QVL list of the motherboard manufacturer.


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## TwinDenis (Feb 1, 2016)

Bo$$ said:


> Check with dell. they should have a list on their website, otherwise check what spec crucial match for that system





P4-630 said:


> Pick memory that's preferably on the QVL list of the motherboard manufacturer.


Dell says they do not have a compatibility list, unfortunately, I even phoned them for this reason.
And on the other side I am not tech expert for hardware and such, so it is hard to judge.
It is ddr3 though and 1600mhz which is supported by the cpu I think.


Kursah said:


> If it doesn't, he's a mainboard and PSU away from a new system!
> 
> G.Skill is my go-to memory brand still in many cases, but most of the well-known vendors have good quality DDR3, so if you can find a better price on similar rated RAM odds are you'll be fine. You might check to see if your system has a RAM QVL list but otherwise you should be fine I would imagine. Ya give us the link please.


Here is the link to the manufacturer's webpage for the product line:
http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f3-2400c10d-16gtx
Here is the Product:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009V50T7O/?tag=tec06d-20


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## Bo$$ (Feb 1, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> Dell says they do not have a compatibility list, unfortunately, I even phoned them for this reason.



 i dont know if you've managed to acertain if the board will work without ECC ram?

otherwise it looks fairly standard and you shouldn't have any issues


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## TwinDenis (Feb 1, 2016)

Bo$$ said:


> i dont know if you've managed to acertain if the board will work without ECC ram?
> 
> otherwise it looks fairly standard and you shouldn't have any issues



It is non-ECC, but does it matter?
I can do 3D even on an semi-old laptop but gaming is more demanding, in 3D you mostly require skill, I have seen people do well in decent laptops and cheap modern rigs.
In school we had laptops and were working on old PCs (actually, too old Dell ones) but yeah... we could manage. Now if it is zBrush ( My thing  ) it will require some more tech muscles to do good, but still does and I think more memory and faster memory will actually boost its performance. I remember one time I had my ram full because of a simple project on after effects... oh man... the lags... But anyway.
...


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## Bo$$ (Feb 1, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> It is non-ECC, but does it matter?


Since it is a workstation it MAY require ECC ram, thats why people suggested looking at the QVL list..

Crucial also suggests ECC ram... http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/precision-workstation-t3600/CT3287876

edit: http://www.in.tum.de/fileadmin/user...ter/Dell/Workstation/Dell-Precision-T3600.pdf

says it takes both.... looks like that will work


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## TwinDenis (Feb 1, 2016)

Bo$$ said:


> Since it is a workstation it MAY require ECC ram, thats why people suggested looking at the QVL list..
> 
> Crucial also suggests ECC ram... http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/precision-workstation-t3600/CT3287876
> 
> ...


In other words, will the g.skill I ordered do?
What I saw and made the purchase was that:
"• Up to 64GB4 of quad-channel ECC or non-ECC memory"
Besides that question, one more is a concern too,
is it okay to run it at 2 channels instead of 4 channels?
So this means 2x8gb instead of 4x4gb.
The CAS latency is 7 as well.
At max of 1600mhz which is the limit from the sheet.


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## Azumay (Feb 1, 2016)

Dell MBs are picky with ram.  Awful pricey ram for 1600mhz ram.
You don't need 2400mhz ram or such tight timing.


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## TwinDenis (Feb 1, 2016)

Azumay said:


> Dell MBs are picky with ram.  Awful pricey ram for 1600mhz ram.
> You don't need 2400mhz ram or such tight timing.


Just Ordered this one: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009V50T7O/?tag=tec06d-20
Do not know what you are talking about, picky or not it is specific to what it is and this MB needs to use it. It is better than mine thats for sure. I will use 2 channels for the 8gb each module to work as someone above suggested.


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## Azumay (Feb 1, 2016)

Funny. LoL


TwinDenis said:


> Do not know what you are talking about



From a guy that orders a workstation for gaming and has had problems gaming for 2 yrs from it.

Dell's MB, components, bios, and software are built Dells way not to your own specs.
Maybe you will get lucky with memory you ordered, and hopefully it will fix all your issues.


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## Bo$$ (Feb 1, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> is it okay to run it at 2 channels instead of 4 channels?



Yes, they will run dual channel mode.

and yes, those G.skill SHOULD work, although without a QVL list nothing is certain


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## TwinDenis (Feb 1, 2016)

Azumay said:


> Funny. LoL
> 
> 
> From a guy that orders a workstation for gaming and has had problems gaming for 2 yrs from it.
> ...


From a guy who, again, got recommended for this as an investment for good Home and little 3D Modeling out of Hobby work, yes.
That is what I got back then and have to appreciate it, because if I dont it is like telling that you are unsatisfied with the goods you have, instead you could not have anything yet you got a good pc for home. So thats what I see in all this.
I have to appreciate what I have and if there is indeed something wrong I have to fix it.
Thats not to say I should not play league of legends or similar games, even on lowest? When effects pop up I usually stutter in this game.



Bo$$ said:


> Yes, they will run dual channel mode.
> 
> and yes, those G.skill SHOULD work, although without a QVL list nothing is certain


Great.
Stutter happens when some vfx (particle effect or smoke or handpainted fire) pops up usually, or when someone enters the screen (this one depends on vsync but still happens when it is off, it is just less than with vsync).
If ram is not the fix then either internet/connection or something unnoticed is.
For ISP service it is one of the best right here, and reliable. It is both cheap in price as a bundle and efficient. I talked to them actually, they said it is not related to the connection as of pc-isp-server. They pinged for me as well as I pinged to the servers and there was no issue or packet-loss. So you get the idea.


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## thebluebumblebee (Feb 1, 2016)

P4-630 said:


> Pick memory that's preferably on the QVL list of the motherboard manufacturer.


OR
Use one of the RAM manufacture's adviser tools to select RAM. http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/compatible-upgrade-for/Dell/precision-workstation-t3600


TwinDenis said:


> Just Ordered this one: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009V50T7O/?tag=tec06d-20


I don't know if that will or won't work, but my instinct is to use "mainstream" RAM, not such high performance RAM.  I agree with @Bo$$ last said though.

After seeing Passmark crash on your system, I'd suggest pulling out one RAM module at a time and running Passmark to see if you can get it to work.  If you can get it to work, then you need to see if it's that RAM module or the slot.


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## TwinDenis (Feb 1, 2016)

thebluebumblebee said:


> OR
> Use one of the RAM manufacture's adviser tools to select RAM. http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/compatible-upgrade-for/Dell/precision-workstation-t3600
> 
> I don't know if that will or won't work, but my instinct is to use "mainstream" RAM, not such high performance RAM.  I agree with @Bo$$ last said though.
> ...


as said above, one of them were destroyed or faulty, so I ordered this pack I posted above to have more ram because it is necessary for me to have at least 8gb of ram, so I got 2 modules of 8gb each. This should do.

As someone from another least populated forum said, I have to troubleshoot this further even while waiting for the ram to arrive.
It is because this could as well be something else.
Not sure of course, I did get hard pagefaults many times which means I had to purchase ram modules sooner or later.
If this kit will do that I ordered then perfect.
I would upgrade ram sooner or later, and I did not expect to be tied by Dell and their products ever.

Will this ram do for my system?
The g.skill one.


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## Bo$$ (Feb 1, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> Will this ram do for my system?
> The g.skill one.



I would recommend the crucial one I posted above or the one @thebluebumblebee posted

However, there is nothing to suggest the G.Skill sticks will not work, other than dells compatibility...


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## TwinDenis (Feb 1, 2016)

Bo$$ said:


> I would recommend the crucial one I posted above or the one @thebluebumblebee posted
> 
> However, there is nothing to suggest the G.Skill sticks will not work, other than dells compatibility...


Okay wait, I get mixed suggestions here, 
I cannot find those dell sticks you recommended in locals, plus they have way more latency.
What should I do.


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## Aquinus (Feb 1, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


>



PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA tends to be indicative of either memory instability or an unstable driver. I have a very strange feeling that this could be storage driver related.

Could you show us what's in the device manager under the "ATAPI", "Hard drives", and "Storage controller" sections? I'm thinking that a dell storage driver might be out of date causing issues when a lot of I/O occurs such as PassMark trying out file system/disk performance. It should look something like this:




Also, knowing where the SATA cables for the SSD and any hard drive in the machine are connected to would be helpful so we make sure the right drivers are up to date. It wouldn't be the first time I would have seen something like generic SATA or AHCI driver cause issues.


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## TwinDenis (Feb 1, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA tends to be indicative of either memory instability or an unstable driver. I have a very strange feeling that this could be storage driver related.
> 
> Could you show us what's in the device manager under the "ATAPI", "Hard drives", and "Storage controller" sections? I'm thinking that a dell storage driver might be out of date causing issues when a lot of I/O occurs such as PassMark trying out file system/disk performance. It should look something like this:
> View attachment 71810
> ...


Yes of course, I attached it, hope you can see it.
by the way, do you know if the ram I chose is compatible with my hardware? (I saw the sheet and ordered it, it will arrive next week) I did because one of the sticks broke, I couldn't start the system with it alone plugged, but even with the rest of them only, I get pagefaults in nonpaged area as well. Well it was time for ram upgrade anyway I guess.


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## Aquinus (Feb 1, 2016)

Generic AHCI drivers tend to show up under ATAPI and not storage controllers, so I would say we've found a potential culprit.

You'll want to update the AHCI driver under the ATAPI section with the following driver:
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/do...Te-AHCI-SCU-Software-RAID-driver-for-Windows-

These are the latest RSTe and AHCI drivers for C600-series chipsets (and coincidentally also for X79 which is practically a C600-series chipset as well.) You should extract the zip file and install the driver in that the following location within the extracted directory:
Drivers/x64/Win8_10_2k8R2_2K12/AHCI

You'll need to update the driver by right clicking on the AHCI driver in the device manager to update it, this package doesn't have a GUI driver installer. In that window you'll want to select the option to browse your computer for driver software, then use the directory I mentioned earlier in the next area where you can select where to search for the driver. Windows at this point should be smart enough to automatically grab the AHCI driver for you and install it. If not, I can direct you to which INF file in particular needs to be installed.

Simply put, all 3 storage controllers on my machine show up under the ATAPI section when it's using generic drivers and half of the time it does some pretty weird stuff, such as thinking that my 500GB drive is detachable storage. Installing the actual drivers will not just resolve that problem but, will move the device to the proper section in device manager.

Either way, I suspect switching to Intel managed AHCI drivers could make a pretty big difference. Generic drivers never give me the performance out of my drives that I should be getting, even on Windows 10.


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## xorbe (Feb 1, 2016)

I feel like OP is throwing money into a fire pit


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## TwinDenis (Feb 2, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> Generic AHCI drivers tend to show up under ATAPI and not storage controllers, so I would say we've found a potential culprit.
> 
> You'll want to update the AHCI driver under the ATAPI section with the following driver:
> https://downloadcenter.intel.com/do...Te-AHCI-SCU-Software-RAID-driver-for-Windows-
> ...


Wait a sec, it says I already have the latest driver.
ps: nevermind, I installed 86 instead of 64, it occurred to me to be compatible but it wasnt.



xorbe said:


> I feel like OP is throwing money into a fire pit



If you consider repairing a "throwing money into a fire pit" then be my guest.



Aquinus said:


> Generic AHCI drivers tend to show up under ATAPI and not storage controllers, so I would say we've found a potential culprit.
> 
> You'll want to update the AHCI driver under the ATAPI section with the following driver:
> https://downloadcenter.intel.com/do...Te-AHCI-SCU-Software-RAID-driver-for-Windows-
> ...


Thanks for than, so the atapi device category , is there anything else that could cause issues in there?

On latencymon I get high measurements of hard pagefaults but not of dpc latency.


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## sneekypeet (Feb 2, 2016)

@TwinDenis please learn the nuances of the multi-quote or the edit button. It is getting tiresome merging your double and triple postings.


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## Vayra86 (Feb 2, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> I don't think so. Not in a long shot.
> 
> 
> Clocks are set to cas9:
> ...



Regular RAM timing list ends with CR 2T for me.

Tried this?


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## Aquinus (Feb 2, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> Wait a sec, it says I already have the latest driver.
> ps: nevermind, I installed 86 instead of 64, it occurred to me to be compatible but it wasnt.
> 
> 
> ...


Have you tried to see if LoL is still stuttering after installing the newer AHCI driver? Does PassMark still BSOD?


Vayra86 said:


> Regular RAM timing list ends with CR 2T for me.
> 
> Tried this?


This isn't a bad thing to consider. Not all DRAM can handle 1T command rates with issue. I've had several sticks where 1T simply was unstable. The ECC memory might not take kindly to more aggressive timings either, so it might not be a bad idea.


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## TwinDenis (Feb 2, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> Have you tried to see if LoL is still stuttering after installing the newer AHCI driver? Does PassMark still BSOD?


Unfortunately yes on both, it does get pagefault and I still have get the choppy fps. At least the pagefaults specifically on latencymon are going red slower than before (before it was kinda like skyrocket up to red pagefault count) now its more than half the time for it to go all the way up.
About the fps issues, I kinda tried playing around with adaptive vsync and such settings, even got nvidia inspector to do more detailed editing, but did not figure out the fix, lets see heroes of the storm as an example since its the most extreme form of this effect, butter smooth fps early on, but when things going on, I get stutter, adaptive vsync did not work, and got choppy framerates even with it off. When I have it off it gets the addiction of screeen tearing which is also not presented at first but gets messed up mid-game.
Odd, The graphics without this effect, at the start of each game looks pretty nice and the animations are beautyful but when this occurs and starts being constantly there, they look choppy kinda like playing with less than 30fps. While the fps counter snaps at 59-60.
ps: I did a clean install of my gpu drivers in safemode, using DDU and the latest nvidia drivers, hopefully adaptive vsync will work, but I cant say the same for the games.
I got rid of the screen tearing, not by the choppy framerates.



Vayra86 said:


> Regular RAM timing list ends with CR 2T for me.
> 
> Tried this?


What do you mean?
How to do that?


----------



## Vayra86 (Feb 2, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> What do you mean?
> How to do that?



This is advanced user stuff. Go into BIOS/UEFI BIOS and find your DRAM timings list. It will likely be set to AUTO right now, put it on manual and change the (CR) number from 1T to 2T. All other clocks stay the same. Note that you can (still) use XMP, but it may also be interesting to keep it off (it should always work without, so for the sake of proper testing start with XMP at same setting as it was before, you can however see if this has influence later on)

Worst that will happen is system won't boot, best case scenario it solves your issue with RAM. If the first happens, you can reset CMOS (all power off, remove the small battery on your motherboard for a while, or use a jumper) to get back to factory settings. It is very unlikely to hurt performance all too much so there is no harm trying. It can be very useful to have a speaker installed on your motherboard so you can hear the beep codes, they can also point to RAM issues.

Having quickly skimmed through this thread (14 pages...) I see your general focus is on game performance and I see you fiddling a lot with software settings. Maybe I can cut short the general process by saying that game performance on *regular* settings (ie, installing recent driver, having chipset drivers up to date and correct BIOS setup) should just work fine - that is, a fixed sequence in a game should always perform the same. Make yourself a rigid testing routine; ie a single benchmark run of Heaven, or a fixed first campaign level from any demanding game (one that gives 99% gpu utilization) and keep running that instead of testing all sorts of games. This way you can find more quickly whether changes you made are effective.

I would stay clear of anything but factory settings and stock clocks and go from there; don't fiddle around in the drivers either, just let the driver find settings for you. Then from that basis, make changes to the system on a lower level (for example the RAM timings). I wouldn't waste your time with subtleties such as Vsync on or off - it either all works properly, or it doesn't. Some of these settings can also mask or hide the problem instead of solving it, which doesn't help you either.


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## TwinDenis (Feb 2, 2016)

Vayra86 said:


> This is advanced user stuff. Go into BIOS/UEFI BIOS and find your DRAM timings list. It will likely be set to AUTO right now, put it on manual and change the (CR) number from 1T to 2T. All other clocks stay the same. Note that you can (still) use XMP, but it may also be interesting to keep it off (it should always work without, so for the sake of proper testing start with XMP at same setting as it was before, you can however see if this has influence later on)
> 
> Worst that will happen is system won't boot, best case scenario it solves your issue with RAM. If the first happens, you can reset CMOS (all power off, remove the small battery on your motherboard for a while, or use a jumper) to get back to factory settings. It is very unlikely to hurt performance all too much so there is no harm trying. It can be very useful to have a speaker installed on your motherboard so you can hear the beep codes, they can also point to RAM issues.
> 
> ...


Okay main problem, I said it before but I cannot configure my ram in my bios, it just has no such option, neither on the intel bios (amt). I know how to reset CMOS by removing the "large watch battery" from the motherboard and pressing the power button to drain the remaining charges and re-place it back in for all passwords and settings to reset.

Oh I had much messing around with vsync settings already, no point in doing so again, I got my gpu drivers fresh reinstalled by removing the previous ones in safemode and getting a clean install of the latest. Pretty much fixed the adaptive vsync setting but not the fps issues, which are not stutter per say, for some people stutters means a hiccup, it is like a mini-lag that scales up by the more action on the screen, but with adaptive it gets fixed. So it is not the same effect, I called it micro-stutter and more of choppy framerates when things happen, and effects show up unexpectedly (meaning some v.effects do not cause the frames to drop and be choppy. That happens on lol, on heroes of the storm it is more severe because it has more things going on, more effects. But still not as much as other games.


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## Vayra86 (Feb 2, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> Okay main problem, I said it before but I cannot configure my ram in my bios, it just has no such option, neither on the intel bios (amt). I know how to reset CMOS by removing the "large watch battery" from the motherboard and pressing the power button to drain the remaining charges and re-place it back in for all passwords and settings to reset.
> 
> Oh I had much messing around with vsync settings already, no point in doing so again, I got my gpu drivers fresh reinstalled by removing the previous ones in safemode and getting a clean install of the latest. Pretty much fixed the adaptive vsync setting but not the fps issues, which are not stutter per say, for some people stutters means a hiccup, it is like a mini-lag that scales up by the more action on the screen, but with adaptive it gets fixed. So it is not the same effect, I called it micro-stutter and more of choppy framerates when things happen, and effects show up unexpectedly (meaning some v.effects do not cause the frames to drop and be choppy. That happens on lol, on heroes of the storm it is more severe because it has more things going on, more effects. But still not as much as other games.



Sounds a lot like a performance bottleneck somewhere, which is very unlikely on the games you mentioned. Adaptive Vsync is 'hiding' your performance issue because what it does essentially is halving your framerate whenever it ducks below 60 fps (it syncs at 30 fps at that point).

Reading more of the thread I see you are also looking at storage. Did you ever get BSOD's that point towards 'faulty SATA cables' or 'storage device removal / cannot write to storage device' and the like? The BSOD error code can tell you this, if that is the case, check SATA cables and continue looking into storage issues. If you have no error codes, any time the system cannot write a minidump, there is likely a storage issue.

Did you ask Dell if they can do something about access to motherboard settings?
Also, did you check whether you have throttling going on? If the framerate degrades over time, this is likely the cause and you need to do something about heat dissipation / cooling. Looking at the T3600 case, that doesn't strike me as High performance or high airflow optimized. Monitor temperatures or if you want to see how effective better cooling would be, pop a desk fan next to an open case and see what happens.


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## TwinDenis (Feb 2, 2016)

Vayra86 said:


> Sounds a lot like a performance bottleneck somewhere, which is very unlikely on the games you mentioned. Adaptive Vsync is 'hiding' your performance issue because what it does essentially is halving your framerate whenever it ducks below 60 fps (it syncs at 30 fps at that point).
> 
> Did you ask Dell if they can do something about access to motherboard settings?
> Also, did you check whether you have throttling going on? If the framerate degrades over time, this is likely the cause and you need to do something about heat dissipation / cooling. Looking at the T3600 case, that doesn't strike me as High performance or high airflow optimized. Monitor temperatures or if you want to see how effective better cooling would be, pop a desk fan next to an open case and see what happens.


I get acceptable temperatures.
That said, adaptive vsync is not allowing the vsync to lock frames way below the threshold, thus there is no stutter but there is choppy framerates with or without the vsync option. I think I get decent results on the gpu benchmarks as tested above.
So thinking back the dell precision model has 2 modes, active and passive cooling, I have it on active, passive is the classic cool and quite, I used the highest fan speeds while gaming with cpu temps of around 45c even then I had these performance issues. So it is not a temperature problem. I went extreme with the fans to just test it out in one gameplay that gave away the same effect, the only thing that changed really was temperature and noise, too much noise. So I turned it back to auto again which does pretty good job cooling my machine.

Ps: I Cannot change ram timings in the OEM bios or intel bios extension.


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## Vayra86 (Feb 2, 2016)

Sorry about my ninja edits, I put some new points that aren't in your quote 

The big nuisance here is not having full system access, most notably BIOS. The changes that could really matter cannot be made  Looking at that RAM timings list... 107 tRFC also raises my eyebrows. RAM bottlenecking can really cause the in game behaviour you are seeing, as you said: with a lot of sudden activity, you see stutter or massive frame drops, most 'sudden' activity that is not a particle (which is fully GPU accelerated) is an object that moves, spawning of objects, physics calculations... which is at least in part, a CPU task that utilizes your DDR3.

Thinking more about this. I would be extremely interested right now in running a 3DMark 11 Physics test, which leans heavily on DRAM. In addition, monitoring CPU usage in game can further reinforce the idea that RAM is the culprit - if you see CPU bottlenecking, low GPU usage...


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## TwinDenis (Feb 2, 2016)

Vayra86 said:


> Sorry about my ninja edits, I put some new points that aren't in your quote
> 
> The big nuisance here is not having full system access, most notably BIOS. The changes that could really matter cannot be made  Looking at that RAM timings list... 107 tRFC also raises my eyebrows. RAM bottlenecking can really cause the in game behaviour you are seeing, as you said: with a lot of sudden activity, you see stutter or massive frame drops, most 'sudden' activity that is not a particle (which is fully GPU accelerated) is an object that moves, spawning of objects, physics calculations... which is at least in part, a CPU task that utilizes your DDR3.
> 
> Thinking more about this. I would be extremely interested right now in running a 3DMark 11 Physics test, which leans heavily on DRAM. In addition, monitoring CPU usage in game can further reinforce the idea that RAM is the culprit - if you see CPU bottlenecking, low GPU usage...


Every bit of valuable information you seek is indeed in the past pages, because I have ran 3DMark, yes some of the physics were laggy, some did not, depending really. Some combined tests did better in comparison to the standalone physx test of the same benchmark. I did all 3DMark tests, the last one which is called firestrike was somewhat extreme in the fighting scene, I think this can be measured and it actually was, they made the scenes component specific on purpose. Some had lights some had smoke, pure gpu power, and so on, I had issues on smoke somewhat. In scenes with this type of particle/vfx. Physx as well, depending on the amount of physx participants of course, if it is one object it will not matter much, Cpu usage is normal as you can see in the past pages (skip 1 page and check the 5 back).
I will ninja as well, this specific post to collect the data I have to direct you to the tests and results, so just refresh after 10 minutes from now.
PS:
Check my posts in this page:
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/t...lprit-proves-to-be-a-challenge.219448/page-11
and this Page:
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/t...ulprit-proves-to-be-a-challenge.219448/page-9
The key clue here is that all games run butter smooth at the start of the game.
Even on extreme Settings.
If I am not mistaken Power Usage is at a standard depending on the gpu usage which always remains balanced depending on the demands of the game (eg: higher textures=more vram usage). On textures on extreme I spend around less than 2gb vram and I have 4gb available.
So it is logical than even on the lowest of low I get choppy framerates. Even with physx off. Tried making gpu manage Physx as well, and tried turning off all settings on the games that could be turned off. I even get this effect on SC2 sometimes when hovering over new troops. This game is Old though, and not much demanding.

Oh and, I dont have any immediate storage issues, drivers seem okay now.


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## Aquinus (Feb 2, 2016)

How about your network driver? Is that up to date with what Intel has on their site? 
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25016/Network-Adapter-Driver-for-Windows-10

I'm just trying to rule out any drivers that could be out of date to at least try and narrow down the memory as the issue. As I said before, that BSOD is what catches my eye because those kinds of errors usually mean either memory or driver issues.


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## Tatty_One (Feb 2, 2016)

After several reminders in this thread, the last being post #329 regarding merging or editing posts rather than double and triple posting causing me alone a lot of merging work over the last few days, let alone anyone else and the Op clearly ignoring the requests, if it continues then this thread is closed.


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## TwinDenis (Feb 2, 2016)

Tatty_One said:


> After several reminders in this thread, the last being post #329 regarding merging or editing posts rather than double and triple posting causing me alone a lot of merging work over the last few days, let alone anyone else and the Op clearly ignoring the requests, if it continues then this thread is closed.


You are clearly not understood and clear of what you mean then.
I did use the function of multi-quoting, whats the issue with that?
If you want to make a request please make it clear and understandable.
> tell me what to do.


Aquinus said:


> How about your network driver? Is that up to date with what Intel has on their site?
> https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25016/Network-Adapter-Driver-for-Windows-10
> 
> I'm just trying to rule out any drivers that could be out of date to at least try and narrow down the memory as the issue. As I said before, that BSOD is what catches my eye because those kinds of errors usually mean either memory or driver issues.


Yes I have those, I answered that 2 or more times, so I bet I have the latest, I think this is the link I was directed to by members and myself sometime in the past.
-Edited as suggested-


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## 64K (Feb 2, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> You are clearly not understood and clear of what you mean then.
> I did use the function of multi-quoting, whats the issue with that?
> If you want to make a request please make it clear and understandable.
> > tell me what to do.



If you are struggling with multi-quote then do this. Click Edit on your post #341 and then Reply to Aquinus. You can reply to as many people as you want to in one post and delete post #342 before you get your thread closed.


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## TwinDenis (Feb 2, 2016)

64K said:


> If you are struggling with multi-quote then do this. Click Edit on your post #341 and then Reply to Aquinus. You can reply to as many people as you want to in one post and delete post #342 before you get your thread closed.


but thats what I am doing usually.
I dont get what is the problem of the moderators at least let there be a detailed explanation or something.
Threatening me for that without me knowing what I do wrong is insane.
Can anyone explain how to do this? I am not a moderator or anything how should I know, it is different for each forum, first time getting warned like that.


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## dorsetknob (Feb 2, 2016)

@TwinDenis
Tatty does not have to understand !!
He tells you the Forum rules regarding Double and multi posting  and how not to get posts closed or deleted

And in the Subsquent  following post's you ignore what he said ""AND DOUBLE POSTED""
good luck sorting your problem out but i am afraid your post in in serious danger of being locked/deleted


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## TwinDenis (Feb 2, 2016)

dorsetknob said:


> @TwinDenis
> Tatty does not have to understand !!
> He tells you the Forum rules regarding Double and multi posting  and how not to get posts closed or deleted
> 
> ...


Okay so how to do this?
Should I merge posts to one like a pack of 2 posts?
Give me some examples please.


sneekypeet said:


> @TwinDenis please learn the nuances of the multi-quote or the edit button. It is getting tiresome merging your double and triple postings.





Tatty_One said:


> After several reminders in this thread, the last being post #329 regarding merging or editing posts rather than double and triple posting causing me alone a lot of merging work over the last few days, let alone anyone else and the Op clearly ignoring the requests, if it continues then this thread is closed.
> 
> View attachment 71823



Okay so after reviewing your requests and searching around, I take you want me to not edit and paste my quotes but instead use the buttons and if I want to add something extra except of editing, to just post again below the post I did?
Is this post an appropriate example of quoting? I really do not understand what you do moderators so I just ask. I did not ignore the first posts, I changed what I did but if I did the thing that I did not know it was causing trouble then okay. Correct me.


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## dorsetknob (Feb 2, 2016)

An example of merged posts taken from PM's



TwinDenis said:


> I said that I did not understand, not that they did not understand, I need an explanation on what is up with the posts.
> I did not use the buttons in the following posts as they requested, if they wanted me to actually use them then I already did.
> I have my posts like the other members by quoting and answering in succession.





dorsetknob said:


> Double posting is when you post reply 223 then before anyone else replys you post again with post 224
> tripple posting is when no one has replied any you post again with 225
> if you were to click the edit button in post 223 you could add what you posted in 224 and 225
> the rare occasion when double posting is generally ignored is if a period of time usually a day has passed and your bumping thread in the hope of resuming interest in the post
> PS use of post 223 ...224 and 225 was hyperthectical posts and not actual posts





dorsetknob said:


> "AND YOU JUST DOUBLE POSTED AGAIN " in your thread
> it will be locked as your showing you do not read/take notice of what has been said/ posted





TwinDenis said:


> Simple, because no one explains a thing?
> I will just open a new thread whats the deal.
> They have to understand that they must be direct, what I get is I need to merge my posts? I did 2 different things and all say that both are wrong, either if I do multiple quote or double post it will be both bad? this is not logical.





TwinDenis said:


> check the post again, is this what you want?
> it is simply ridiculous getting banned for just posting on a thread.
> If the forum is unfriendly towards new members it is non of my problems.





dorsetknob said:


> i give up you carry on despite being told with your behavior and when your thread is closed dont complain
> if you then open a new thread on same subject that is lightly to be also closed
> your behavior is heading towards You getting banned


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Feb 2, 2016)

@TwinDenis

"If the forum is unfriendly towards new members it is non of my problems"

wrong, just wrong, you have recieved an almost uprecedented amount of help, as does any new member. TPU is a very warm and welcoming community.

I really think you should apologize, especially to the mods.


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## Tatty_One (Feb 2, 2016)

I think members have explained it well enough, the point is TwinDenis, you could have asked  if you did not understand when you were told to stop before but just chose to ignore, if you want to quote more than one person, you can do so in just one post by using the multiquote button, if you make a post and 5 minutes later you decide you need to say something else but no one else has posted in between, go to your last post, press edit and add the new/extra content.

You say I gave you a warning without explanation..... did you even look at the "request" you were given at post 329  just a few minutes before and then carried on double posting?  Thank you..... I like to keep my cupboards tidy (read threads).

The only reason your posts in this thread look normal is because I have been merging them for a week!

*This is a multiquote example.... ONE POST, 2 quotes*



TwinDenis said:


> but thats what I am doing usually.
> I dont get what is the problem of the moderators at least let there be a detailed explanation or something.
> Threatening me for that without me knowing what I do wrong is insane.
> Can anyone explain how to do this? I am not a moderator or anything how should I know, it is different for each forum, first time getting warned like that.



*And you can respond to each individual quote like this*



dorsetknob said:


> @TwinDenis
> Tatty does not have to understand !!
> He tells you the Forum rules regarding Double and multi posting  and how not to get posts closed or deleted
> 
> ...



*And here too.*

*Whatever you did before was not multiquotes because they came out as separate individual posts.*


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## TwinDenis (Feb 2, 2016)

Tatty_One said:


> I think members have explained it well enough, the point is TwinDenis, you could have asked  if you did not understand when you were told to stop before but just chose to ignore, if you want to quote more than one person, you can do so in just one post by using the multiquote button, if you make a post and 5 minutes later you decide you need to say something else but no one else has posted in between, go to your last post, press edit and add the new/extra content.
> 
> You say I gave you a warning without explanation..... did you even look at the "request" you were given at post 329  just a few minutes before and then carried on double posting?  Thank you..... I like to keep my cupboards tidy (read threads).
> 
> The only reason your posts in this thread look normal is because I have been merging them for a week!


Okay, you did not understand, as told, I did not understand meaning I did what I thought you meant, I applied something, I did not ignore it. Even if it is not what you wanted me to do.
I did understand that instead of wanting me to post on merged posts, to just post separately, I will consider posting all in one reply from now on, if this is not what you want pm me.
May I edit them and add replies afterwards? Thanks.



CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> @TwinDenis
> 
> "If the forum is unfriendly towards new members it is non of my problems"
> 
> ...



I did not say anything and should not apologize for this specific statement.
I personally saw into thanking members that kept supporting me, that has nothing to do with the above statement of the other member. To short it, I did not say anything offensive to the community. 
ps: I saw a pm(personal message) there, and an "if". I know for a fact that this is not the case.


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## Tatty_One (Feb 2, 2016)

See edited post above for clarity.


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## TwinDenis (Feb 2, 2016)

Tatty_One said:


> See edited post above for clarity.


This is Odd, I used the reply button and then pressed reply again to get x2 quotes on a post, then replied to each individual, can you clarify?
Maybe it is more technical than what I perceived.
Is the post #349 the right way to do it?
There has to be a misunderstanding of some sort as I suspected.


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Feb 2, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> I did not say anything and should not apologize for this specific statement.
> I personally saw into thanking members that kept supporting me, that has nothing to do with the above statement of the other member. To short it, I did not say anything offensive to the community.
> ps: I saw a pm(personal message) there, and an "if". I know for a fact that this is not the case.




you did say it, you (or a mod) may have deleted it later but the proof is there to see. Have a look at post #348 where @dorsetknob copied your post.

TwinDenis said: ↑
check the post again, is this what you want?
it is simply ridiculous getting banned for just posting on a thread.
If the forum is unfriendly towards new members it is non of my problems.


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## revin (Feb 2, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> Is the post #349 the right way to do it?


*Yes*


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## TwinDenis (Feb 2, 2016)

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> you did say it, you (or a mod) may have deleted it later but the proof is there to see. Have a look at post #348 where @dorsetknob copied your post.
> 
> TwinDenis said: ↑
> check the post again, is this what you want?
> ...


Nope, I did not. He could also make it on purpose to blame me, quoting is code. Proof or not I did not say anything in this forum or blamed the public . Changing the subject to the initial one.


revin said:


> *Yes*


That is great, so moving on to the main subject^


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## xorbe (Feb 2, 2016)

Off topic, but I have stopped offering help to newbie members, due to an influx of trolls (one in particular) that keep creating new accounts across many popular computer forums, and pretending to have various PC problems.  This poster is just dragging you guys around in circles ...

Seriously, someone needs to write a "how to debug common PC performance issues" page, and THEN after the poster has worked through the page, seek forum help.


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Feb 2, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> He could also make it on purpose to blame me, quoting is code



That is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

There is an option missing from the poll
PEBCAK


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## TwinDenis (Feb 2, 2016)

xorbe said:


> Off topic, but I have stopped offering help to newbie members, due to an influx of trolls (one in particular) that keep creating new accounts across many popular computer forums, and pretending to have various PC problems.  This poster is just dragging you guys around in circles ...
> 
> Seriously, someone needs to write a "how to debug common PC performance issues" page, and THEN after the poster has worked through the page, seek forum help.


Why would I do that per say?
Is there any reason to spend weeks trying to solve a problem that is a ghost? seriously, are you trying?
I see people usually troll around in posts but since it is a realistic problem, how can I drag them in cycles when they are smart enough to know there has to be an explanation to my problem.
You just come here posting only offending comments from what I see.
Your reasons?

From what I have been trying to accomplish since a year now is pretty obvious, to make it work properly, guys like @Aquinus are trying to help and I admire the effort. 
Why it is very simple, there cannot be a case where there is a set fix for everyone, there are many situation where the solution varies, 
thus I indeed agree with the tutorial suggestion, but for generic stuff only. In my case there is a different problem.


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## dorsetknob (Feb 2, 2016)

TwinDenis said:


> Nope, I did not. He could also make it on purpose to blame me, quoting is code. Proof or not I did not say anything in this forum or blamed the public



I DID NOT MAKE THAT UP IT WAS TAKEN FROM PM'S YOU SENT ME   YOU WERE DISRESPECTFUL TO THE MEMBERS HERE

Because you were disrespectful to the members  who were trying to help you i included it in the post on the forums

logs are available to the mods who can confirm what you said   " if they so chose to look "


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## TwinDenis (Feb 2, 2016)

dorsetknob said:


> I DID NOT MAKE THAT UP IT WAS TAKEN FROM PM'S YOU SENT ME   YOU WERE DISRESPECTFUL TO THE MEMBERS HERE
> 
> Because you were disrespectful to the members  who were trying to help you i included it in the post on the forums
> 
> logs are available to the mods who can confirm what you said   " if they so chose to look "


It is not a forum post, so what the other guy said is irrelevant, Disrespectful? as of how? I did not post or say anything like that. The commend that I sent you over your own answer was "if" which is for "
it is simply ridiculous getting banned for just posting on a thread.
If the forum is unfriendly towards new members it is non of my problems."
It is simple, first it was hypothetical conversation, it is really the basics. If someone does that then they are this or that, but since this is not the case, they aren't.
That along with the fact that it is not post but Pm asking for something, instead you prefer to tag it as post. In public forums as if I said anything disrespectful to the public, which I did say the exact opposite in the public forums.
"Appreciate the support".
Yeah so I did not say that specifically you made it up, but that it was not a thread post, it was personal message (PM). And in the middle of the converstation I told you that it would be bad if someone got banned for just posting, in case a forum is unfriendly this has nothing to do with me.
But that is not the case since it is a "what if" and hypothetical scenario, so why dont you just stop posting for this matter, If you take it so personally I will say sorry. 
Moving on.
Thanks.


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## AlienIsGOD (Feb 2, 2016)

i have the biggest bloody headache trying to follow this thread...


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## Aquinus (Feb 2, 2016)

AlienIsGOD said:


> i have the biggest bloody headache trying to follow this thread...


tl;dr: Feels like an issue with possibly unstable memory.

I'm honestly running out of ideas.

Also folks, keep it civil. Keep the arguing in private. I get enough whining from my daughter and my wife. I personally don't really care to see it here as well.


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## AlienIsGOD (Feb 2, 2016)

I really would love to see the OP s problem solved, but at some point you just gotta cut your losses.  If he's had this PC for two years with these problems, I'd just move on at this point.


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## xorbe (Feb 3, 2016)

AlienIsGOD said:


> i have the biggest bloody headache trying to follow this thread...



OP could update the latest summary / findings in the first post -- might help a bit?


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## Vayra86 (Feb 3, 2016)

AlienIsGOD said:


> i have the biggest bloody headache trying to follow this thread...



You and me both. This escalated quickly


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## TwinDenis (Feb 3, 2016)

AlienIsGOD said:


> i have the biggest bloody headache trying to follow this thread...


Believe me... me too...



Aquinus said:


> tl;dr: Feels like an issue with possibly unstable memory.
> 
> I'm honestly running out of ideas.
> 
> Also folks, keep it civil. Keep the arguing in private. I get enough whining from my daughter and my wife. I personally don't really care to see it here as well.


I agree and hate being insulted, but considering this is a place we focus on solving technical issues, I would also pretty much like to avoid that, so I just replied as appropriate and moved on.
ps: got family under you? blessed be 


xorbe said:


> OP could update the latest summary / findings in the first post -- might help a bit?


I will below.


Vayra86 said:


> You and me both. This escalated quickly



*Problem*:

I get choppy/non-smooth fps, frame-skipping when something enters my screen, or when for example in league of legends a minion/ai spawns,
before that I have no issues, when minions spawn or effects that unpredictable take place I get fps issues. It happens also when I do not move the camera but instead a player enters my view,
when they are on the sides they are skipping frames for a moment, in heroes of the storm I get constant fps drops from the point the minions spawn and all the way till the end,
when battles occur I get worse fps skip.
It is kinda like playing in 30 fps or less. In the start of the game before the minion spawn or many effects like smoke take place I get no issues and everything runs butter smooth.
Kinda happens in all my games, but this description will help you trace the problem.

*What I tried*(some might be missing but this is summary):

If I am not mistaken,
Here are some things I have done so far:
Clean install of Windows (7 and 10) and drivers, latest drivers on all devices.
No processes that could interrupt my game or the system in a negative way, even without antivirus.
Played a lot with nvidia control panel and in game settings as suggested, as well as power options of windows and bios configurations as well (eg: disabled speedstep, hyperthread, c-states etc.)
Contacted ISP for assistance, no issues with my connection, it is pretty fast actually and with big bandwidth.
Changed PcieGen2 to PcieGen3 using a patch for my MotherBoard/ChipSet.
Repaired Corrupted files of windows
Checked temps of all components and even played at high fan speed for extreme cool temps.
Checked if PSU is able to feed the GPU card.
Checked for cpu/gpu usage to see if it is normal while in game.
Clean Installed Nvidia Device Drivers as recommended by nvidia.
Did Dell Diagnostics test, and memtest86+, scanned storage devices as well.
Got the OS into an SSD Samsung 850 evo.
Used DDU to clean and install nvidia display driver.
I tried vsync off and vsync on as well as adaptive vsync with either in game vsync on or off.
I am planning on replacing my ram.
Here is how it looks like now, Remember, it happened from the moment I got the machine or so I think.




I tried testing my ram modules and got one of them broke so I will get a new kit of 2x8gb ones with recommended specs by OEM product sheet.
Moving on, I monitored the temps and they are all in acceptable levels when stressed.
In bios There is not much I can change in my machine, it is OEM board so it is hard to change for example Memory timings in Bios, no idea if I can by other means.

It is hard to see it as software related or OS related issue. As well as of broken parts.
You can check my specs out to see if you can find any solution or think of anything fresh.
My specs are on the profile page.


Hope this helps overall for clarity over the subject, if something comes up please state it.
Thanks


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Feb 3, 2016)

In summary

7674 views

8 votes, 5 of which are "other"


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## RCoon (Feb 3, 2016)

@TwinDenis Can you confirm that you've had this problem since January 2015?

I only ask, because I can find threads relating to this exact issue from a year ago *with your username*. The question I ask is why in God's green earth you haven't replaced your workstation with a normal gaming PC if your problems have existed for such a long period of time.


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## Tatty_One (Feb 3, 2016)

At this point, after 15 pages, often with an attitude that does not necessarily lean people towards helping any further, the OP has now managed to spend the last page or so just arguing I cannot see any point in continuing, I think a brick wall has been reached, this has now become un-productive so I am closing it.

@TwinDenis .......... If members are willing to help you by message then feel free to continue in that form but to accuse some members of deliberately changing words that you have said quite frankly is appalling.


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