# WiFi Hotspot For RV Park



## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

I was perusing Google looking for some information on setting up an RV Park Wifi system..

I came across a TPU thread from 2011 that was helpful but, rather than resurrect an old thread, I thought it best to start a new one..  

So, here I am..

My situation...

A year or so ago, I set up a very basic WiFi system for an RV Park

http://sjfm.us/temp/RVwifi1.jpg

The small green dot at the lower right is a simple Linksys WRT54G Wireless router (DD-WRT) with an 11dbi antenna attached. It feeds the "pull thru" areas just fine (at the bottom of the pic), but is spotty beyond that... Setting this up was within my level of expertise..

The Park management wanted to expand the WiFi Access to include long-term residents in the two streets north of the pull thru area...

http://sjfm.us/temp/RVwifi2a.jpg

I added 2 more Linksys WRT54G Wireless routers (DD-WRT), hardwired (Cat5E) them directly into the Cable Modem/Router in the RV Park Office that has a 50mbit connection...

This was (barely) within my level of expertise..

As of late, the RV Park has been receiving complaints about spotty connections, slow speeds and no connections viewable.  

Personally, I think it's a lot of DSAK and I.D.TEN-T problems as I go out there with my laptop and have no problems with access.  But management now wants to sink some $$$ (Probably around 2K) into upgrading the system..

And here I am now... 

I am a little out of my pay grade, so I was hoping to get some expert/guru advice..  

I read on the afore mentioned thread about this:

http://www.google.com/products/cata...a=X&ei=i6VvTpW7B7LRiAKI8fTlBg&ved=0CG4Q8wIwAQ

And was wondering if that might be all I need..

Any hints, tips, advice, or "yer outta yer mind!!s" would be appreciate...  

Michale


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## Athlon2K15 (Feb 11, 2013)

I think if you upgraded your existing WRT54G router with 802.11n based products it would solve your issue. Is there any way you could get one setup at the green dot and one more at the far end of the seasonal sites? maybe tuck it in a tree


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 11, 2013)

Should build a custom router out of a older P4 machine and use access points only. This will help stability issues cause I am willing to be the many residence that connect to this router are using it like its their own world and downloading EVERYTHING.


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## remixedcat (Feb 11, 2013)

If you got the budget for it you can get something from extreme networks and have a WLAN controller and access points. but that can run a few thousand...

Or if you can't afford that then....

You can deploy a router and then have these wireless access points:
http://www.ampedwireless.com/products/ap20000g.html

I did a review located at the following URL:
http://remixedcat.blogspot.com/2012/11/amped-wireless-ap20000g-full-review.html

Please read it, as it has a lot of details on those.

Site Config 1 (1 router//1 access point//1 range extender)
http://img.techpowerup.org/130211/RVwifi1.png

Site Config 2: (1 router and 2 range extenders)
http://img.techpowerup.org/130211/RVwifi2.png


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## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

WOW!

So many response!!

Thanx a bunch!!!

Athlonx2,

Actually, the Linksys on Pine Dr *IS* in a tree!  


brandonwh64,

No doubt..  One of my biggest problems with this particular setup is that I am not able to monitor the connections as a whole, but rather am limited to simply checking the throughput from the individual Linksys devices..


remixedcat,

Thanx for the links.  Lemme peruse them and I'll get back...


Thanx again to all..

Michale


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 11, 2013)

Michale32086 said:


> No doubt..  One of my biggest problems with this particular setup is that I am not able to monitor the connections as a whole, but rather am limited to simply checking the throughput from the individual Linksys devices..



Its wise to use only one router on the private LAN and run Wireless access points. This would allow you to monitor the network connections by using the router's web interface.


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## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

remixedcat said:


> If you got the budget for it you can get something from extreme networks and have a WLAN controller and access points. but that can run a few thousand...



I might be able to bump management up a few K if I can convince them it's worth it..  

Got a link???




remixedcat said:


> Or if you can't afford that then....
> 
> You can deploy a router and then have these wireless access points:
> http://www.ampedwireless.com/products/ap20000g.html
> ...



Excellent...

Couple questions though...

Outdoor viability is a must..  The current Linksys routers are outdoors (one on a 20 ft pole, one in a tree.... I kid you not!  ) housed in a box:

http://sjfm.us/temp/rvwifi1.jpg

There is also SOME foilage around, but most is 8'-10'+ off the ground..

http://sjfm.us/temp/RVwifi2.jpg

If geographical is relevant, the RV Park is located in St Augustine, FL (Nation's oldest city!!  )

Thanx again for the links....  VERY much appreciated...

All in all, what I am looking at it is something within my level of expertise, can be set up quickly, monitored extensively and require very little maintenance.   

Providing free beer  would be a bonus   


Michale


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## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> Its wise to use only one router on the private LAN and run Wireless access points. This would allow you to monitor the network connections by using the router's web interface.



OK, so rather than adding multiple routers, I should be adding multiple APs...

Could the multiple routers be the cause of the connection problems that are being reported??


Michale


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## xvi (Feb 11, 2013)

I would make sure you're turning off DHCP on the routers and not using the WAN ports. That basically turns them in to APs with a built-in switch. The "High Gain" antennas change the radiation pattern and can cause dead zones. Make sure you're not using the same channel/frequency for your different APs.

You might try using sector antennas to blast 2.4 and 5.8 out to wireless clients. If you're trying to blast through trees, you'll want to stick with the 2.4 GHz band since 5.8 GHz does _NOT_ like physical interference, not that 2.4 likes it either. You might be able to put sector antennas up to help focus the signal where you'd like it to go.

If I'm not mistaken, FCC limits how much power you can pump in to an antenna, but they don't regulate the attenuation (dBi) of the antenna.

Check for interference. Is anyone else trying to sit on your channel? Do you have multiple APs on the same channel?

If you need an AP that can be weatherproofed, try some of Ubiquiti's products like their Bullet (single polarity) or Rocket (dual polarity). You'll need a POE injector for those (not waterproof), but you can change a whole heck of a lot of settings on those.

If you need a quick and dirty solution, and I'm not recommending this, there *are* WiFi range extenders (basically rebroadcast the signal), but we've never had anything good come out of them. Ever.

Perhaps if you could get a couple sector antennas up around the middle of the park? Four 90 degree sectors to make a full 360?


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## remixedcat (Feb 11, 2013)

Wlan controller from Extreme:
http://www.extremenetworks.com/products/summit-wm3000.aspx

Altitude APs from Extreme:
http://www.extremenetworks.com/products/altitude.aspx


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 11, 2013)

Michale32086 said:


> OK, so rather than adding multiple routers, I should be adding multiple APs...
> 
> Could the multiple routers be the cause of the connection problems that are being reported??
> 
> ...



Maybe. 

Each router likes to direct traffic and sometime cause conflicts and collisions with data. With one router doing all of the traffic directing and using the access points for their wireless connection to the main router, you should have no issues.


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## remixedcat (Feb 11, 2013)

Michale32086 said:


> I might be able to bump management up a few K if I can convince them it's worth it..
> 
> Got a link???
> 
> ...



The Amped Wireless units are very powerful. I got a mixed construction house with very tricky walls and a very fat cat that my R20000G has to penetrate thru and I can evne stream videos from 200 some ft away!


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## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

remixedcat said:


> Site Config 1 (1 router//1 access point//1 range extender)
> http://img.techpowerup.org/130211/RVwifi1.png
> 
> Site Config 2: (1 router and 2 range extenders)
> http://img.techpowerup.org/130211/RVwifi2.png



Schweet!!!

Let me study these...


Michale


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## remixedcat (Feb 11, 2013)

The RE you don't have to run cable to them.... less to mess with, however with RE the B/W may be affected by daisy chaining.... however, when I did that it was still decent enough throughput!!!


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 11, 2013)

XVI has a good point too is that you could take the routers you already have and set them as access points if they have that feature. What this does as XVI mentioned is it turns off DHCP and gives the router a IP of say 192.168.1.254


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## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> XVI has a good point too is that you could take the routers you already have and set them as access points if they have that feature. What this does as XVI mentioned is it turns off DHCP and gives the router a IP of say 192.168.1.254




That sounds like it might be a good "First Thing To Try" as, if the existing setup is sufficient but just needs adjusted, I might be able to fix things up with what I have...

On the other hand, the chance to play with some new high end hardware is pretty tempting.  

OK, lemme see if I can lay it out..

I believe the DD-WRT equipped routers can be converted to straight AP mode..  

The current setup is this...  There are 3 DD-WRT routers (192.168.1.3, 192.168.1.4 and 192.168.1.5).

.3 is hardwired to .4 and .4 is hardwired directly into the Cable Modem/Router.  They both have stock antennas...

.5 is also hardwired into the Cable Modem and has an 11dBi antenna and a stock antenna.

All three point to the 192.168.1.1 (Cable Modem) as the Gateway..

So, if I understand you correctly, your saying keep the .5 as is and set .3 and .4 as APs pointing to .5

That sounds right???

Michale


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 11, 2013)

Michale32086 said:


> That sounds like it might be a good "First Thing To Try" as, if the existing setup is sufficient but just needs adjusted, I might be able to fix things up with what I have...
> 
> On the other hand, the chance to play with some new high end hardware is pretty tempting.
> 
> ...




Change the router you want to be the main router to 192.168.1.1 then all other routers start at the end of the IP range such as 254, 253, 252 (EX 192.168.1.254). Turn DHCP off on all but 192.168.1.1


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## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

remixedcat said:


> Wlan controller from Extreme:
> http://www.extremenetworks.com/products/summit-wm3000.aspx
> 
> Altitude APs from Extreme:
> http://www.extremenetworks.com/products/altitude.aspx



Couldn't find a price on those..

Which leads me to believe it's one of those, "If you have to ask, you can't afford it" type deals...  


Michale


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## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> Change the router you want to be the main router to 192.168.1.1 then all other routers start at the end of the IP range such as 254, 253, 252 (EX 192.168.1.254). Turn DHCP off on all but 192.168.1.1



Actually, now that I think about it, I think that is how I have it set...

The Cable Modem is a SMC Business Gateway...

All the DD-WRT routers have DHCP off and only the Gateway has DHCP on.... 

Michale


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## xvi (Feb 11, 2013)

Michale32086 said:


> Couldn't find a price on those..
> 
> Which leads me to believe it's one of those, "If you have to ask, you can't afford it" type deals...
> 
> ...



A bit, yes. We often use Ubiquiti radios as they're fairly inexpensive, quite customizable, and can be weatherproofed. You won't typically be able to daisy-chain them though and you'll need to buy your own antenna. Also, they can run DD-WRT.


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## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

OK  I just checked the routers..

They are set up to act as APs.....

So, it seems that THAT is not the problem..   


Michale


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## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

xvi said:


> A bit, yes. We often use Ubiquiti radios as they're fairly inexpensive, quite customizable, and can be weatherproofed. You won't typically be able to daisy-chain them though and you'll need to buy your own antenna. Also, they can run DD-WRT.



The fact that they can run DD-WRT, something I at least have a passing knowledge in, is a BIG plus...


Michale


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## remixedcat (Feb 11, 2013)

The extreme networks wlan controller + 3 APs would be around 12K. but that is top tier stuff for enterprises with thousands of connections.

The Amped Wireless solution would be 500 at most. but it's very powerful and would do the job.


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## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

remixedcat said:


> The extreme networks wlan controller + 3 APs would be around 12K.



Ouch!

*"Too rich for my blood"  * 
-Data, STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION, Cause And Effect


Michale


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## Mindweaver (Feb 11, 2013)

You don't need another router. You need a managed switch, and set the switch up with a different set of IP's then the rest of your network. (_Example: Main 192.168.1.x Switch 192.168.0.x_) this will add another 255 IP's just for wireless then add wireless AP's to your switch. Adding multi routers create multi problems.. Switches are your friend.


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## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

remixedcat said:


> The extreme networks wlan controller + 3 APs would be around 12K. but that is top tier stuff for enterprises with thousands of connections.
> 
> The Amped Wireless solution would be 500 at most. but it's very powerful and would do the job.




The Purple PNG....

http://img.techpowerup.org/130211/RVwifi2.png

.... you did up seems to be a pretty good solution..  What kind of costs would that entail??


Michale


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## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

Mindweaver said:


> You don't need another router. You need a managed switch, and set the switch up with a different set of IP's then the rest of your network. (_Example: Main 192.168.1.x Switch 192.168.0.x_) this will add another 255 IP's just for wireless then add wireless AP's to your switch. Adding multi routers create multi problems.. Switches are your friend.



OK, now I am starting to get nosebleeds...  

Michale


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## remixedcat (Feb 11, 2013)

what he had in mind is nearer to wlan controller+thin APs.


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## remixedcat (Feb 11, 2013)

Michale32086 said:


> The Purple PNG....
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/130211/RVwifi2.png
> 
> ...



The RE's are around 120-150 each (dual band) or 100 for the single band version and the router is your choice or the R20000G is 140 for the dual band and 98 for the single band R10000


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## Mindweaver (Feb 11, 2013)

Here is a good managed switch. Then buy some AP's with detachable Antenna like this. Then buy stronger dbi antennas like this. This is what I would buy. You'll have to use a wifi tester to find where your fall off points are and add ap's where you need them.


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## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

Mindweaver said:


> Here is a good managed switch. Then buy some AP's with detachable Antenna like this. Then buy stronger dbi antennas like this. This is what I would buy. You'll have to use a wifi tester to find where your fall off points are and add ap's where you need them.



I am with ya up until the antennas..

This is an outdoor setup and weatherproofing is an issue..

Obviously heat/humidity is a big issue.  But even in NE FL, we do get some below freezing temps during the winter...

Another factor is how does the equipment respond to power blinks, as they happen every so often in the location...


Michale


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## remixedcat (Feb 11, 2013)

I would hook up UPS units to the RE's.


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## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

remixedcat said:


> The RE's are around 120-150 each (dual band) or 100 for the single band version and the router is your choice or the R20000G is 140 for the dual band and 98 for the single band R10000



Given what you know about my expertise based on this thread, do you think it's within my grasp??

Looking at your review and the screenshots, it doesn't seem that difficult if you have the basics down, which I think I do..

Michale


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 11, 2013)

Honestly make it simple such as a good managed switch like mindweaver mentioned that uses PoE (Power over ethernet) then use PoE AP's so the only UPS you would need is one on the managed switch.


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## remixedcat (Feb 11, 2013)

Michale32086 said:


> Given what you know about my expertise based on this thread, do you think it's within my grasp??
> 
> Looking at your review and the screenshots, it doesn't seem that difficult if you have the basics down, which I think I do..
> 
> Michale



they are extremely easy to setup! 3 clicks and you've extended your range!!!!


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## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> Honestly make it simple such as a good managed switch like mindweaver mentioned that uses PoE (Power over ethernet) then use PoE AP's so the only UPS you would need is one on the managed switch.



I like simple!  Simple is good...


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## remixedcat (Feb 11, 2013)

also for the RE's you must have 70% or greater sig. str.

this goes for all REs and not just amped


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 11, 2013)

Michale32086 said:


> I like simple!  Simple is good...



With a PoE setup, you will only have to run RJ45 to the AP's and not have to worry about power at each device. They are powered by the RJ45 from the switch.


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## remixedcat (Feb 11, 2013)

thing is aren't PoE APs more expensive???


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## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> With a PoE setup, you will only have to run RJ45 to the AP's and not have to worry about power at each device. They are powered by the RJ45 from the switch.



Yea, I looked into that..  But that was back when money was the biggest issue...  

In the here and now, I probably have license to splurge a little in the name of reliability..

Michale


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## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

remixedcat said:


> they are extremely easy to setup! 3 clicks and you've extended your range!!!!



Math was never my strong point..

What's 10K sq ft in linear feet??  Linearely???  


Michale


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## remixedcat (Feb 11, 2013)

Michale32086 said:


> Math was never my strong point..
> 
> What's 10K sq ft in linear feet??  Linearely???
> 
> ...



I got 215 ft streaming video coverage and 315-350 ft browsable web coverage. those are the only figures you need to pay attention to.

This was in a bad scenario BTW... 6 other Aps nearby, and tons of walls in the way

I tested the AP and SR and both performed the same... they are essentially the same hardware wise.


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 11, 2013)

remixedcat said:


> thing is aren't PoE APs more expensive???



These are around 100$ We use 600$ ones here at work.

Cisco Small Business WAP200 Wireless-G Access Poin...


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## remixedcat (Feb 11, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> These are around 100$ We use 600$ ones here at work.
> 
> Cisco Small Business WAP200 Wireless-G Access Poin...



Up to 54Mbps Wireless Data Rates


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## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

remixedcat said:


> I got 215 ft streaming video coverage and 315-350 ft browsable web coverage. those are the only figures you need to pay attention to.
> 
> This was in a bad scenario BTW... 6 other Aps nearby, and tons of walls in the way
> 
> I tested the AP and SR and both performed the same... they are essentially the same hardware wise.



Since we're talking 300ft max with clear line of sight sans minor foliage, I think we definitely have the coverage, eh?


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## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

This info is all really awesome!

Looks like I'll be up late writing the proposal to the management..

On final question..

Of all the options, what would be the pros/cons of the equipment vis a vis environmental conditions..

As I indicated, NE Florida, heat and humidity paramount, but some instances of below freezing temps during the winter...

This info is gold!  I can't thank ya'all enough...


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## remixedcat (Feb 11, 2013)

Michale32086 said:


> Since we're talking 300ft max with clear line of sight sans minor foliage, I think we definitely have the coverage, eh?



This with the AP or RE inside a house going thru 5 walls... people have gotten 600+ ft using it to extend the range of ARDrones

AR Drone amped - YouTube

THAT IS HARDCORE


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 11, 2013)

remixedcat said:


> Up to 54Mbps Wireless Data Rates



All he is doing is sharing internet connections, Wireless G should be able to handle that especially since there will be more than one.


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## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

remixedcat said:


> This with the AP or RE inside a house going thru 5 walls... people have gotten 600+ ft using it to extend the range of ARDrones
> 
> AR Drone amped - YouTube
> 
> THAT IS HARDCORE



holy crap, that is awesome!!!!


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## sneekypeet (Feb 11, 2013)

I don't think the issue is the equipment, I think its more the fact that the tin cans everyone is staying in blocks the signal. My father-in-law had this same issue, and after spending a ton on infrastructure, he found a small antenna sealed in a plastic bag placed on his roof was the real solution.


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## erocker (Feb 11, 2013)

sneekypeet said:


> he found a small antenna sealed in a plastic bag placed on his roof was the real solution.



That is actually a great solution.


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## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

sneekypeet said:


> I don't think the issue is the equipment, I think its more the fact that the tin cans everyone is staying in blocks the signal. My father-in-law had this same issue, and after spending a ton on infrastructure, he found a small antenna sealed in a plastic bag placed on his roof was the real solution.




http://cruftbox.com/cruft/docs/cantenna.html


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## sneekypeet (Feb 11, 2013)

anything should work really, you just need to grab the signal above the roof


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## Michale32086 (Feb 11, 2013)

sneekypeet said:


> I don't think the issue is the equipment, I think its more the fact that the tin cans everyone is staying in blocks the signal. My father-in-law had this same issue, and after spending a ton on infrastructure, he found a small antenna sealed in a plastic bag placed on his roof was the real solution.



That's actually a good point and what I meant before when I referred to it as a DSAK or I.D.Ten-T problem..

One of the residents can't get a signal in his residence even though he is like 50ft from one of the routers..  I sit at his property line with a laptop and everything is hunky-dorky..

I have argued to the management that we should only be required to bring signal to the property line and not burn thru their walls, but......  

Michale


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## remixedcat (Feb 11, 2013)

Michale32086 said:


> holy crap, that is awesome!!!!



Hell yeah it is!!!


Also look into amped's pro line.of stuff too

On phone BTW so links hard to post...


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## Michale32086 (Feb 13, 2013)

JamesRock said:


> I think if you improved your current WRT54G wireless router with 802.11n centered items it would fix your problem. Is there any way you could get one installation at the natural dot and one more at the far end of the periodic websites . . . . . .



*"Dogs barking, can't fly home without umbrella"*
-Jumping Jack Flash




Michale


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