# RTX 3080 power supply requirements - 850W?



## DRDOOM (Sep 19, 2020)

NVIDIA 3080显卡功耗分析及750W电源兼容性情况 – FCPOWERUP极电魔方
					






					www.fcpowerup.com
				








						NVIDIA 3080显卡功耗分析及750W电源兼容性情况 – FCPOWERUP极电魔方
					






					translate.google.com
				




I've had a look at the following website where several PSUs were texted with the RTX 3080, and it appears the peak load can be _very_ high.

The recommendations of this tester were 850W for the RTX 3080.

Thoughts?

Here is also the peak power load from Igor's Lab


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## kiriakost (Sep 20, 2020)

DRDOOM said:


> I've had a look at the following website where several PSUs were texted with the RTX 3080, and it appears the peak load can be _very_ high.


Igor in Germany his is the only reliable source so far for making electrical measurements over PC hardware. 
The measuring setup this worth over 10000 Euro.
*But only one qualifying electronic engineer* he may interpret correctly the measurement results.
10 to 20ms this translates to frequent power requirement. 
The scaling at lower milliseconds this translates to less frequent power requirements.  

The most important discovery that Igor confirmed this is that PCI-E slot this deliver up to 5.5A. 
All the other energy this is supplied due the dual 6+2P.

NVIDIA did add an active power limiter on their cards, this translates that even if you get a 2000W PSU, the card will never use it. 




DRDOOM said:


> Thoughts?


You need to learn German language and become also an electronics engineer.


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## Calmmo (Sep 20, 2020)

A new quality 650 will do.
Tho considering prices between 650/750 variants tend to be rather small, its best to go with a 750 (if were talking a small 10-15$ diff).


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## dirtyferret (Sep 20, 2020)

techspot was pulling around 525w peak off their test rig so I would say a 850w would not be "overkill" if you were in the market for a new PSU.  If you already have a very good 650w or solid 750w then I don't think you would not necessarily need a new unit (unless noise was becoming a factor).


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## agent_x007 (Sep 20, 2020)

Just undervolt it.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 20, 2020)

kiriakost said:


> Igor in Germany his is the only reliable source so far for making electrical measurements over PC hardware.
> The measuring setup this worth over 10000 Euro.
> *But only one qualifying electronic engineer* he may interpret correctly the measurement results.
> 10 to 20ms this translates to frequent power requirement.
> ...


Nvidia recommend a 850 watt power supply, do you believe people plucked that figure out their asses?.
It's overkill possibly, but if the PSU is not single rail and it's lower than 850 it's possible that one or more of the supply rails to the pciex is not capable of supplying enough current.


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## londiste (Sep 20, 2020)

Unless you have a really crappy PSU, I would not worry about sub-ms power spikes or the 850W stated requirement.
Smoothed and averaged over 10-20 ms, card stays in its power limit. Shorter spikes are just the nature of power delivery here.
850W is stated while also accounting for crappy PSUs that overstate their capabilities. Noname 900W may or may not actually be capable of that. Less common these days but you never know.

If my memory serves right, Igor also measured some 5700XT cards pulling 400+W in sub-ms 
I am very certain that Radeon VII and 200+W Turings also get these 400+W spikes there.



dirtyferret said:


> techspot was pulling around 525w peak off their test rig so I would say a 850w would not be "overkill" if you were in the market for a new PSU.  If you already have a very good 650w or solid 750w then I don't think you would necessarily need a new unit (unless noise was becoming a factor).


While you are correct, it is worth noting that Techspot's rig runs a 3950X. And they also measured the card itself - it was pulling 327W.


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## kiriakost (Sep 20, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Nvidia recommend a 850 watt power supply, do you believe people plucked that figure out their asses?.
> It's overkill possibly, but if the PSU is not single rail and it's lower than 850 it's possible that one or more of the supply rails to the pciex is not capable of supplying enough current.



No I do believe the opposite that NVIDIA plucked that figure out their ass....
They seem to perform calculations based on SLI cards when them Killed SLI due drivers just yesterday.


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## londiste (Sep 20, 2020)

kiriakost said:


> No I do believe the opposite that NVIDIA plucked that figure out their asses.


Kind of. But it is an educated guess and has been done in similar way for a long while.
RTX3080 pulls 350W. High-end CPU pulls 200W, probably 250W if an Intel CPU. Some 50W for other stuff. Then add 30% just to be safe 

Edit:
Did not actually calculate anything but looks like this guess was a closer than I expected:
350 + 250 + 50 = 650W * 1,3 = 845W


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 20, 2020)

kiriakost said:


> No I do believe the opposite that NVIDIA plucked that figure out their asses.


While you're entitled to your opinion, I wager the engineering department of Nvidia don't use guess work.
You realise that misleading the public on electrical requirements could lead to time in court.
Plus over the years, gaming, folding and mining I have met the limitations of every power supply I have owned at some point, normally while theoretically well within it's limits, and operating specs, because work loads on GPU'S especially, due to min max current load swing's, can make for transient spikes that shut down a PSU, not guesswork, been there many times.


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## kiriakost (Sep 20, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> While you're entitled to your opinion, I wager the engineering department of Nvidia don't use guess work.
> You realise that misleading the public on electrical requirements could lead to time in court.


NVIDIA does not make laws, all that they offer this is multiple recommendations, not even a single one, so them to take responsibility about it. 
Look the chart again. 
There is no red line limits.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 20, 2020)

kiriakost said:


> NVIDIA does not make laws, all that they offer this is multiple recommendations, not even a single one, so them to take responsibility about it.
> Look the chart again.
> There is no red line limits.


No they're ruled by them duhh, they don't build your pc, they recommend specs but if you're under specs pile doesn't work or pops , it's not on them if you made it.


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## kiriakost (Sep 20, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> No they're ruled by them duhh, they don't build your pc, they recommend specs but if you're under specs pile doesn't work or pops , it's not on them if you made it.


All true, but there is a golden recommendation if you plan to get old with your new GPU,  if your PSU this is now out of warranty then buy a fresh and keep the old as spare.



londiste said:


> Edit:
> Did not actually calculate anything but looks like this guess was a closer than I expected:
> 350 + 250 + 50 = 650W * 1,3 = 845W



Well here is some *Greek style teaching* , no free fish, but of how to learn to get one by your self.
Corsair CX750 W (the good made version), this deliver 1150Watt before protection activates.
Now calculate the headroom from 750W up to 1150W by you offering to us this value as percentage.


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## ExcuseMeWtf (Sep 20, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> While you're entitled to your opinion, I wager the engineering department of Nvidia don't use guess work.
> You realise that misleading the public on electrical requirements could lead to time in court.
> Plus over the years, gaming, folding and mining I have met the limitations of every power supply I have owned at some point, normally while theoretically well within it's limits, and operating specs, because work loads on GPU'S especially, due to min max current load swing's, can make for transient spikes that shut down a PSU, not guesswork, been there many times.



Who is gonna sue nVidia for recommending PSU with a bit more wattage than is realistically needed?

Other way round is MUCH more likely - they recommend PSU cutting it close, so some average uninformed Joe buys PSU of dubious quality that meets the wattage recommendation. But since it's dubious quality, it fails, possibly damaging card itself. Average Joe is uninformed so he sues nVidia for making "false" recommendation.

I.e., nVidia has incentive to make recommendation higher than what is really needed. And sure enough, over the years people were able to run setups containing specific cards with PSUs of lower wattages than officially recommended - without any issues.

Recommending higher wattage PSU than needed is not even a lie of any kind - it is recommendation, not a hard statement that this card won't run on lower wattage PSU. Then again if you can afford newest RTX in current times with scalpers/miners/whatever other BS going on, then you're surely not gonna have a problem with paying up a little for a little higher wattage model in reputable series.

FWIW FCPowerup test lists several 650W units as passing, so this is lowest number *known *to work with RTX, as long as PSU is of respective quality (listed were Seasonic and Super Flower units).


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 20, 2020)

ExcuseMeWtf said:


> Who is gonna sue nVidia for recommending PSU with a bit more wattage than is realistically needed?
> 
> Other way round is MUCH more likely - they recommend PSU cutting it close, so some average uninformed Joe buys PSU of dubious quality that meets the wattage recommendation. But since it's dubious quality, it fails, possibly damaging card itself. Average Joe is uninformed so he sues nVidia for making "false" recommendation.
> 
> ...


How did you get that from what I said, Nvidia are legally bound to correctly disclose the power use and requirements of their technology.

They spec higher because of the reasons you quote and more I agree.

I never said someone would sue for quoting too high a PSU requirement any where, just that Nvidia like us all Are bound by laws.


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## dirtyferret (Sep 20, 2020)

londiste said:


> While you are correct, it is worth noting that Techspot's rig runs a 3950X. And they also measured the card itself - it was pulling 327W.



Like I said, if you have a very good 650w unit it will work as the 525w figure was a peak number not a constant pull.  Obviously with a system that draws less power than techspot's test rig, the individual's power requirements will be lower.


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## Vya Domus (Sep 20, 2020)

PSUs last much longer and are less prone to failure if you are not using them close to their maximum rated wattage not to mention the fan noise that some exhibit when under a lot of load. So while a good lower wattage PSU "may do just fine", it's not optimal.


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## EarthDog (Sep 20, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> Like I said, if you have a very good 650w unit it will work as the 525w figure was a peak number not a constant pull.  Obviously with a system that draws less power than techspot's test rig, the individual's power requirements will be lower.


Spot on. 

Too many hyoerconservatives here for sure..lol.

For theast 2o years I've bought psus where the stress test load is no more than 80% of the psu's limit. Through dozens of builds for myself and clients I never ran these at 50%. So while it is true that they last longer... if you get a quality lsu with a 7-10 year warranty like you should in the first place, you dont need to overspend on additional wattage because of some convoluted idea in people's heads about running at 50% or something.


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## freeagent (Sep 20, 2020)

I


kiriakost said:


> All true, but there is a golden recommendation if you plan to get old with your new GPU,  if your PSU this is now out of warranty then buy a fresh and keep the old as spare.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've hurt two 850w PSU's over the years while folding on old hardware, a Corsair and a Thermaltake. Always because I was pushing for max clocks over extended periods. I have seen over 950w come from an 850, but those 2 850s cannot put out anywhere near their rated wattage anymore. The rails are super bendy, and cannot sustain any kind of oc on that system.


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## okidna (Sep 20, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> *Nvidia recommend a 850 watt power supply*



No, they are not.








						NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Family
					

The Ultra High Performance that Gamers Crave, powered by NVIDIA Ampere Architecture.



					www.nvidia.com


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 20, 2020)

okidna said:


> No, they are not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Whatever, point is, Use what they recommend if possible or if you have issues with your old tat buy accordingly.


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## dirtyferret (Sep 20, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Spot on.
> 
> Too many hyoerconservatives here for sure..lol.
> 
> For theast 2o years I've bought psus where the stress test load is no more than 80% of the psu's limit. Through dozens of builds for myself and clients I never ran these at 50%. So while it is true that they last longer... if you get a quality lsu with a 7-10 year warranty like you should in the first place, you dont need to overspend on additional wattage because of some convoluted idea in people's heads about running at 50% or something.


100%.


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 20, 2020)

kiriakost said:


> Igor in Germany his is the only reliable source so far for making electrical measurements over PC hardware.


Yeah right. LOL


theoneandonlymrk said:


> Nvidia recommend a 850 watt power supply, do you believe people plucked that figure out their asses?.


Note okidna's screen shot and pay particular attention to the fine print. #2 specifically where it says (my *bold underline* added), 





> 2 - Requirement is made based on PC configured with an Intel Core i9-10900K processor. *A lower power rating may work depending on system configuration*.



The point is, no manufacturer (or PSU calculator) wants to recommend an underpowered PSU. So they don't - and rightfully so. 



EarthDog said:


> Too many hyoerconservatives here for sure..lol.


I agree. But then I think there are too many of all the extremes. That is, there are some who are convinced bigger is always better so they buy 1200W Titanium when a 600W Gold is more than enough. Then there are some who run the numbers, come up 350W maximum so they insist on getting a 350W (I can only hope at least Bronze) - leaving no room for any upgrades a couple years down the road. Then there are some who, no matter what, say getting a quality 650W is the way to go. 

If those were the only 3 options, I supposed I would be in the 650W camp as that typically is safe without going too far overboard. Even with a power hungry system, it is very rare for both the CPU and GPU to max out demands at the same point in time. 

But the right way is to really do your homework, research all the individual components (motherboard, RAM, CPU, GPU, fans, drives and everything else that will get power from the PSU), plan ahead for any possible upgrades in a year or two, add a little buffer for aging and perhaps quieter operation, then calculate your needs from there. I used to do that, then added 50 to 100W for good measure and [hopefully] quieter operation (accepting the fact that 50 and 100W are arbitrary). 

But now I'm too old and got lazy so I use the Outervision PSU Calculator because it is the most flexible and conservative. Though of course, it too pads the results - just not as much as less flexible and less extensive calculators. 


EarthDog said:


> you dont need to overspend on additional wattage because of some convoluted idea in people's heads about running at 50% or something.


I agree again. I never understood that either. I can only assume that 50% figure came from ancient history - long before the 80 PLUS certification program came about, when basic PSUs were the norm and that 50% was where they provided peak efficiency. But even then, I think 70% better represented the typical bell curve peak there. Either way, I agree, doubling is going overboard unless you know for a fact you will be adding a second graphics card and a more powerful CPU next year.


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## Frick (Sep 20, 2020)

Aside from all the points already made it's about the lowest common denominator, and has always been; recommanded PSU wattage for GPU's have always been overestimated. If a card actually pulls 200W it is much safer to recommend 650W becuase some 650W units will be overrated 400W units. Thankfully there are less truly crap PSU's around these days (at least where I live) and the most popular PSU's are Corsairs and Seasonics, and even if the lower end Corsairs are pretty shoddy they are head and shoulders above bargain "GreatUnicornHuntWall 800W €12.99" units, but there are still lots of subpar stuff around.


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## garrick (Sep 20, 2020)

750 should handle it.


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## kiriakost (Sep 20, 2020)

freeagent said:


> I've hurt two 850w PSU's over the years while folding on old hardware, a Corsair and a Thermaltake. Always because I was pushing for max clocks over extended periods. I have seen over 950w come from an 850, but those 2 850s cannot put out anywhere near their rated wattage anymore. The rails are super bendy, and cannot sustain any kind of oc on that system.



Both PSU they can recover to full power if they get serviced by an expert in electronic repairs.
My  HIPER 780W PSU (after 8 years ) this collapsed begging of 2020, I did refurbish it by my self ( I am expert in electronics repairs).
But I did feel the feeling of panic for a few minutes, just the idea that I had to deal with a 160 Euro  of damage all the sudden when my wallet this was unprepared.
Nowadays  I have also  the CORSAIR CX750 and this is freshly repaired as it had a strange accident in the hands of another person, as one spare powerful replacement.


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## R-T-B (Sep 20, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> Yeah right. LOL



He says that about a lot of people.  He said it about TPUs PSU reviewer lol...  

I have no doubt he has some electronics knowledge, but his ideation around having a degree being EVERYTHING is frankly...

nevermind.  If you can't say something nice...


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## ppn (Sep 20, 2020)

SF600 can handle this, 10900K.


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## kapone32 (Sep 21, 2020)

londiste said:


> Kind of. But it is an educated guess and has been done in similar way for a long while.
> RTX3080 pulls 350W. High-end CPU pulls 200W, probably 250W if an Intel CPU. Some 50W for other stuff. Then add 30% just to be safe
> 
> Edit:
> ...


You forgot about the 3 to 8 RGB accessories.


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## hat (Sep 21, 2020)

I feel like 850w for a single 3080 is a little overkill. I wouldn't expect to see a system with a single 3080 pull 850w unless it also had an overclocked HEDT processor, running both Prime95 and Furmark at the same time while you are rebuilding your 50TB RAID array because one of your 100 500GB discs failed.


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## mrthanhnguyen (Sep 21, 2020)

Ax1500i able to power up 3090 and 10900k?


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## EarthDog (Sep 21, 2020)

mrthanhnguyen said:


> Ax1500i able to power up 3090 and 10900k?


..not sure if serious...

Twice over!!


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## R-T-B (Sep 21, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Twice over!!


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## Space Lynx (Sep 21, 2020)

ppn said:


> SF600 can handle this, 10900K.



wow, my 700w gold psu should do just fine, especially since I might roll the 65w (peak 90ish watt) 4700x. big navi or rtx 3080 i should be sittin good. nice to know.  thanks for the video


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## kiriakost (Sep 21, 2020)

I am glad to see that also Optimum Tech he also confirmed my words regarding PSU wattage headroom.
From the other hand all PC users including my self here, we are incapable to guess if our PSU performance this has degrade over time.
But the new owners of  RTX 3000 series, they earned the capability to test their own PSU after the installation of the card.
Such a load testing will prove* at their own eyes of its one user*, of how well stands *his own used PSU* at this new challenge.

Naturally if your PSU pops it protection at such load testing, buy a new PSU with out begging for help within forums.
Energy related problems they can find cure only by the use of your wallet.


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## Assimilator (Sep 21, 2020)

DRDOOM said:


> NVIDIA 3080显卡功耗分析及750W电源兼容性情况 – FCPOWERUP极电魔方
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thoughts: learn the dictionary definition of "peak".


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 21, 2020)

kiriakost said:


> From the other hand all PC users including my self here, we are incapable to guess if out PSU performance this has degrade over time.


Huh? Well of course that is not true at all! Any student of electronics, and many experienced PC users know that PSU performance naturally degrades over time - as do most electronics. Capacitor aging, for example, is a natural and unavoidable process and affects many types of capacitors used in PSUs and other electronics. It is so common in fact that the best PSU calculators adjust for it, as seen by the eXtreme OuterVision PSU Calculator (hover your mouse over "Computer Utilization Time"). While the affects of aging in modern electronics is not as prevalent as it once was due to using different chemistries, purer raw material, and better manufacturing techniques, aging still occurs. Of course compensation circuits can be designed and integrated into the device, but that adds to the complexity and cost. So with PSUs, it typically is easier to add a little extra buffer when sizing your needs. 

No guessing required. PSU performance degrade over time. 

And any qualified and properly equipped electronics technician can easy measure PSU output and compare it to previous measurements. So precise levels of degradation can easily be determined. 


kiriakost said:


> I am expert in electronics repairs


Hmmm, then how are you incapable of being able to guess if your PSU's performance has degraded?   



kiriakost said:


> Energy related problems they can find cure only by the use of your wallet.


Huh?    Is something getting lost in translation? For sure, not all energy related problems require spending money. A loose ground wire in a wall outlet can wreck havoc but easily be fixed for free with a screwdriver. Of if you only have a left-handed Phillips, you may be out of luck!


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## Frick (Sep 21, 2020)

R-T-B said:


> He says that about a lot of people.  He said it about TPUs PSU reviewer lol...
> 
> I have no doubt he has some electronics knowledge, but his ideation around having a degree being EVERYTHING is frankly...
> 
> nevermind.  If you can't say something nice...



Remember this is the guy who thinks it's a good thing to withhold knowledge from people because they are not the worthy kings of electronics, IE the high and mighty engineers. He's a feudalist. I like him.


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## kiriakost (Sep 21, 2020)

Frick said:


> Remember this is the guy who thinks it's a good thing to withhold knowledge from people because they are not the worthy kings of electronics, IE the high and mighty engineers. He's a feudalist. I like him.


Good choice of words I can get along with that. 
it's a good thing to withhold knowledge of people which are not ready to comprehend it, they do that at schools too.  
There is no guy here, here is Mr. Kiriakos Triantafillou.


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 21, 2020)




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## John Naylor (Sep 21, 2020)

Theres a lot of malarky oft being parrotted on many sites in threads of this type from days were it mattered and where it never mattered.  For example, several myths busted here:






						Single vs. Multiple +12V rails:  The splitting of the +12V rail
					

What is "multiple +12V rails", really?    In most cases, multiple +12V rails are actually just a single +12V source just split up into multiple +12V outputs each with a limited output capability. This is what "OCP" is. "Over Current Protection". It's a protection in the PSU's housekeeping IC...



					www.jonnyguru.com
				




But there is no universal wisdowm that can be applied here ... as with most tools, the goals and level of need varies so must the solutions.

There are many capable sites out there with this information. 









						MSI GeForce RTX 3080 Gaming X Trio Review
					

The GeForce RTX 3080 Gaming X Trio is MSI's flagship RTX 3080. It comes with a large overclock out of the box, and the cooler is massive. This is the fastest RTX 3080 we've tested so far, and it's the quietest as well. Wow, and that with a classic triple-fan design that doesn't use any fancy...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




"Recommended PSU: 700 W "









						MSI GeForce RTX 3080 GAMING X TRIO review
					

In this review, we benchmark the GeForce RTX 3080 GAMING X Trio from MSI; yes MSI is back with a new Gaming X Trio, with that TRIO, of course, short for a triple-fan solution with an otherwise heavil... Hardware setup | Power consumption




					www.guru3d.com
				




" Here is our power supply recommendation:

*GeForce RTX 3070 - *On your average system we recommend a 550 Watt power supply unit.
*GeForce RTX 3080 - *On your average system we recommend a 650 Watt power supply unit.
*GeForce RTX 3090 - *On your average system we recommend a 750 Watt power supply unit.
If you are going to overclock your GPU or processor, then we do recommend you purchase something with some more stamina. "

Things to remember when selecting PSU wattage rating...  It's not just about staying away from the point where something blows up.  I generally go at about 1.25 to 1.50 times calculated average gaming  load:

a)   The closer you get to the rated wattage, the more likely the PSU will see decreases in voltage ability and electrical noise and short term peaks will exacerbate these.
b)  The close you get to the rated wattage, the greater than fan noise.  I'd love to see reviews noting the point at which semi passive PSUs go from no fan to fan spinning
c)  The closer you get to the rated wattage the worse the efficiency point.   A Titanium PSU at 100% load is as efficient and will produce as much heat as a Gold at 50% load

There is no one size fits all solution to PSU selection.  Your average user, serious gamer, heavy overclocker and noise nitpickers all have varying degrees of need and will be looking for PSUs with different characteristics.  If ya calculate average gaming  load of 500 watts, 625 (+25%)  is as low as Id go ...If moderately overclocking with big GFX load, and calculated 625 - 650 watts , Id go 850.  If going for the best possible OCs and bigger loads and targeting dead silence while system was running at  say 725 - 750... Id go 1050

On this box I am typing from, I had a calculated load of 780 watts including overclocks and dual 23 watt pumps.  ... never considered a 850,  Had a 1050 on build list but the same Seasonic 1250 was cheaper,   Im looking over that the case now while I type this, AutoCAD running on 2nd screen, system is being cooled in passive mode,  all case fans, rad fans and PSU fans are not spinning, pumps speed is at 25%   My 2nd oldest son had a 850 EVGA G2 on his build list w/ SLI build  ... the 1000 G2 was cheaper and tho expected it to be quiet at load , it was the noisiest thing in the build ... asked around various forums and reactions were mixed ... most said their's was fine, but many said they had same issue.   It failed and was replaced, but replacement had same issue... he changed GFX cards and now had a Seasonic Gold + 750 w/ single card which is very quiet.  He's going to be replacing that with a water cooled 3080.


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## EarthDog (Sep 21, 2020)

John Naylor said:


> A Titanium PSU at 100% load is as efficient and will produce as much heat as a Gold at 50% load


Sorry, what? Part of the 80Plus metric is taken at 100% load and 50% load. The difference is the few % between them.

EDIT: Oh I see what you are saying. And you are correct.

That said, the problem is that nobody in their right mind runs at 100% anyway, so that's pretty much a moot point, no? People, IMO should be around 60-80% load depending on several factors... as you mentioned, tolerance of noise being one of them as they get louder running closer to their nameplate value. overprovisioning by 50% is just wasting cash in most cases though.


John Naylor said:


> On this box I am typing from,


You don't have a system listed...


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## agent_x007 (Sep 21, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Sorry, what? Part of the 80Plus metric *is taken at 100% load and 50% load*. The difference is the few % between them.


And 20%. And also 10% for Titanium only rating : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_Plus#Efficiency_level_certifications


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## DRDOOM (Sep 22, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> Thoughts: learn the dictionary definition of "peak".


I am fully aware these figures represent peak load. Which is exactly why I created this thread - I was curious to know if 850W is actually preferred in a power supply to be on the safe side?


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## EarthDog (Sep 22, 2020)

DRDOOM said:


> I am fully aware these figures represent peak load. Which is exactly why I created this thread - I was curious to know if 850W is actually preferred in a power supply to be on the safe side?


That has been answered... 

A 750W will be plenty on most situations including overclocking.


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## NesteaZen (Oct 24, 2020)

kiriakost said:


> Igor in Germany his is the only reliable source so far for making electrical measurements over PC hardware.


while I agree, I raise you Aris / hardware busters over at youtube. I guess due to the lack of audience his content is somewhat scattered and not as organized/clear-cut as igor's write-ups.

aris' baby https://www.techpowerup.com/265702/...ed-psu-testing-and-certification-protocol-1-1


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## Deleted member 203344 (Oct 24, 2020)

Well I looked at it with a more simple approach .. i use a EVGA 3080 ftw ultra running 450w bios so i started with that ... added an allowance for 200w on CPU as its overclocked and another 150w for everything else .. this gave me around 800w.
Ideally you should be running PSU's around 80% capacity for longevity and at their ideal efficiency rating so for me i settled on a Corsair 1000w PSU.
Hope that helps.


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## Sandbo (Oct 24, 2020)

850W isn't too expensive nowadays anyway; PSU is the last thing I will save on.
I always overkill on PSU, and have got 1000-1600W on my different system for an overhead of ~ 200-400W.


----------



## Space Lynx (Oct 24, 2020)

I wonder how much a stock 5900x will pull on watts... it says 105w but i imagine even if i leave everything default it will still boost to 150w?


----------



## Sandbo (Oct 24, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> I wonder how much a stock 5900x will pull on watts... it says 105w but i imagine even if i leave everything default it will still boost to 150w?


The TDP really tells little about the power:








						The AMD Ryzen 9 3950X Review: 16 Cores on 7nm with PCIe 4.0
					






					www.anandtech.com
				



.
My guess is it will be comparable to 3950X, so this maybe a good reference.


----------



## Space Lynx (Oct 24, 2020)

Sandbo said:


> The TDP really tells little about the power:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think I am going to aim for 5600x.  going to skip 5900x otherwise i might have to get a new psu. i have 700w gold evga


----------



## londiste (Oct 24, 2020)

Sandbo said:


> The TDP really tells little about the power:


Ryzen 3000 power limit is at 135% TDP in generic conditions. Anandtech has a nice page in 3000-series review explaining the complexities but 135% is generally correct. CPU does not have to pull that much power but that is the limit and heavy loads are reaching that.
105W TDP = 141W Power Limit. 65W TDP = 88W Power Limit.


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 24, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> I think I am going to aim for 5600x.  going to skip 5900x otherwise i might have to get a new psu. i have 700w gold evga



I really don't see any one single GPU and CPU using more than 700W right now.


----------



## rbgc (Oct 24, 2020)

Asus recomended PSU table for NVIDIA GPU and CPU (source: ASUS, manuals, PSU)


----------



## NesteaZen (Oct 24, 2020)

I never know what ryzen 7 and ryzen 9 is.


----------



## rbgc (Oct 24, 2020)

Most power supplies hit their peak efficiency levels with loads in the range of 40 to 80 percent. Building to about 50 to 60 percent of a PSU's capacity is advisable to achieve maximum efficiency and yet leave room for future expansion and overclocking. 

Good idea is also to see fan noise curve because some PSU and also GPU can switch fan off.

For example


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 24, 2020)

rbgc said:


> Asus recomended PSU table for NVIDIA GPU and CPU (source: ASUS, manuals, PSU)
> 
> View attachment 173149



to be fair, that's assuming a pretty garbage PSU.  There is no way you actually need a well built PSU that high up.



rbgc said:


> Most power supplies hit their peak efficiency levels with loads in the range of 40 to 80 percent. Building to about 50 to 60 percent of a PSU's capacity is advisable to achieve maximum efficiency and yet leave room for future expansion and overclocking.



The difference is in practice usually in the realm of 1-3%.  So no, it's really not sensible given the cost difference.  It's similar to when I was mining, and tested 230V vs 120V.  You gain so little for your trouble.


----------



## rbgc (Oct 24, 2020)

R-T-B said:


> to be fair, that's assuming a pretty garbage PSU.  There is no way you actually need a well built PSU that high up. The difference is in practice usually in the realm of 1-3%.  So no, it's really not sensible given the cost difference.  It's similar to when I was mining, and tested 230V vs 120V.  You gain so little for your trouble.



To be fair, I don't understand obsession with PSU and count every watt to choose PSU "for GPU or CPU". PSU is component for years and reused in new builds.


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 24, 2020)

rbgc said:


> To be fair, I don't understand obsession with PSU and count every watt to choose PSU "for GPU or CPU". PSU is component for years and reused in new builds.


right, but there is a difference in cost for buying a properly sized model versus overkill. This 50-60% capacity thing is a waste of money. As was said the difference in efficiency is AT MAX 1-3%. Hardly noticeable iver A YEAR if you do the math. Yet, if we go by the ~50% rule, you're paying $50 to $100 more dollars on a psu for no reason (well, quiet perhaps). So yeah, you can disregard watts and over buy to be 'efficient'.. its your wallet.

FTR, I'm running an i9-10980xe with all c/t at 4.5 ghz with a rog strix 3080... no issues here with a quality 750w unit.  I load around 550W while gaming.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Oct 24, 2020)

rbgc said:


> Most power supplies hit their peak efficiency levels with loads in the range of 40 to 80 percent. Building to about 50 to 60 percent of a PSU's capacity is advisable to achieve maximum efficiency and yet leave room for future expansion and overclocking.


Nah! Many MANY years ago, before "flat" efficiency curves and Plug Load Solutions came up with their 80PLUS certification process, that was true. But as ED suggests, not today. 



rbgc said:


> To be fair, I don't understand obsession with PSU and count every watt to choose PSU "for GPU or CPU". PSU is component for years and reused in new builds.


In a round about way, you are almost contradicting yourself. 

Basic power supplies naturally have a bell shaped efficiency curve where X is the load and is typically between 50 and 70% of the total load capacity. That is the point where the efficiency peaks, then drops rapidly on either side. And "cheap" basic power supplies, even at peak efficiencies, have pretty lousy efficiencies. Peaking at 70% or even less is not uncommon. 

Yet those type supplies are still widely used today with devices that pose a fairly consistent load on the power supply. A TV for example, presents a fairly consistent load on the supply. So engineers choose and match a supply where the typical demand falls near the power supply's peak efficiency range. Hopefully, they have a little tree-hugger in them and choose a better quality supply that peaks higher than 70% efficiency. 

Computer power demands, of course, vary widely, from just a handful of watts at idle to 100s of watts when tasked. Hence the desire for a relatively "flat" efficiency curve. But not just a flat curve, but a relatively high efficiency rating too. Enter 80 PLUS certifications. If you look at the requirements for the various rating (hover over the 80 PLUS logos), you will see a maximum of just 4% difference between the 50% efficiency requirement and the 100% requirement. So as rbgc suggested, there just is no need to obsess over such tiny differences. 

It would take many years of savings in energy costs to make up a couple percentage points. This is why paying more for Platinum or Titanium over Gold is rarely an efficient use of your $$$ - unless you just happen to stumble on a "too-good-to-pass-up" deal. 

I agree with rbgc and when sizing up the PSU to purchase, you should plan ahead and think about possible upgrades that may require more power. So go ahead and pad the results to give you a little extra head room. But buying 200% above your needs is way overkill and as ED noted, is just wasting money. 

These days, with a quality PSU, the only real reason to buy way more than you need is to ensure the PSUs fan barely spins or doesn't spin at all in order to minimize or eliminate any fan noise. But frankly, a quality PSU from a reputable maker will have a quality fan. And when installed in quality case is likely to be near silent (or totally silent - below ambient noise levels) anyway. So if you need 500W, don't waste your money on a 1KW supply. 600 - 650W will be plenty and still provide a nice buffer for future expansion/upgrades.


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 24, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> right, but there is a difference in cost for buying a properly sized model versus overkill. This 50-60% capacity thing is a waste of money. As was said the difference in efficiency is AT MAX 1-3%. Hardly noticeable iver A YEAR if you do the math. Yet, if we go by the ~50% rule, you're paying $50 to $100 more dollars on a psu for no reason (well, quiet perhaps). So yeah, you can disregard watts and over buy to be 'efficient'.. its your wallet.
> 
> FTR, I'm running an i9-10980xe with all c/t at 4.5 ghz with a rog strix 3080... no issues here with a quality 750w unit.  I load around 550W while gaming.



As I said, I've yet to encounter a single CPU and GPU that will fully load a good 750W unit.

That includes HEDT.


----------



## Sandbo (Oct 25, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> I think I am going to aim for 5600x.  going to skip 5900x otherwise i might have to get a new psu. i have 700w gold evga


Wasn't expect to upgrade, but then knowing Zen 3 are last on AM4, my X570 board asked me to get 5950X.



londiste said:


> Ryzen 3000 power limit is at 135% TDP in generic conditions. Anandtech has a nice page in 3000-series review explaining the complexities but 135% is generally correct. CPU does not have to pull that much power but that is the limit and heavy loads are reaching that.
> 105W TDP = 141W Power Limit. 65W TDP = 88W Power Limit.


It might work for this group of CPUs, but then Anandtech also reviewed some 35W TDP CPUs and find pretty inconsistent results:








						The $60 CPU Question: AMD Athlon 200GE or Intel Pentium Gold G5400? A Review
					






					www.anandtech.com
				






rbgc said:


> To be fair, I don't understand obsession with PSU and count every watt to choose PSU "for GPU or CPU". PSU is component for years and reused in new builds.


Exactly and that's why I don't save on that; My Seasonic X-560 bought in 2011, has been running almost non-stop for 10 years, going through 2-3 systems.


----------



## londiste (Oct 25, 2020)

Sandbo said:


> It might work for this group of CPUs, but then Anandtech also reviewed some 35W TDP CPUs and find pretty inconsistent results:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Athlon GE200 is Zen+ where power limit is at TDP. So are Ryzen 3000 mobile and APUs.
AMD increased power limit for Zen2 - Ryzen 3000 series and Ryzen 4000 APUs.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Oct 25, 2020)

R-T-B said:


> As I said, I've yet to encounter a single CPU and GPU that will fully load a good 750W unit.


Me either but... ...in reality whether or not the PSU is a "good" 750W unit or a sub-par unit really is immaterial when properly sizing a PSU for purchase. We must assume 750W is 750W even though one may be full of ripple, poorly regulated and out of tolerance. Without actual testing, we cannot assume a "good" 750W PSU can deliver more power than a sub-par 750W PSU with the same published specs on the measured rails. We can only assume the "good" PSU's output voltages will be cleaner and perhaps more stable with less wasted energy. 

Of course, nobody wants instability cause by sub-par "dirty" power. I would never buy a brand new Porsche then fill it up with questionable fuel from the corner Tobacco and Bait Shop. 

I think the problem is recommended vs actual needs. No table like that ASUS table, no GPU or graphics card maker, no calculator is ever going to recommend an underpowered PSU. They all pad the results. And that makes sense. And with the exception of the eXtreme OuterVision PSU Calculator, all those tables, GPU and card makers, and (AFAIK) all other calculators use arbitrary numbers for the other components the PSUs will power. Or at least, they typically don't state how many sticks and what type RAM, how many and what size case fans, if using a conventional CPU cooler or some alternative, how many and what type drives, etc. So they pad the results even more. 

When sizing up a PSU for purchase, "*IF*" (and yes, now I am using a "what if") the maximum demand of the CPU and the maximum demand of the graphics solution added together total more than 750W (setting aside the demands of the mobo, RAM, drives, fans, etc.) we must assume it is possible both power hungry devices "might" max out demands at the same point in time, and make our purchase accordingly. 

The problem is, we typically don't really know the true maximum power consumption of these components. And therein lies the rub. Without actual testing, we have to assume the manufacturers' published specs are fairly accurate. 

So even though it is unlikely both the CPU and the graphics solution will reach peak demands at the same point in time, it is still possible. And the PSU must be able to provide it.  And for that matter, we must assume at that same point in time, all fans will be spinning at full speed, all drives are being heavily accessed, all RAM are maxed out too.

If anything all this built-in padding/headroom just shows us is the advice to size your PSU to run at about "_50 to 60 percent of a PSU's capacity_" really makes no sense with today's PSUs and their relatively "flat efficiency curves". All the extra headroom is already in there. There's no need to double. The only exceptions I can see would be if you are seriously planning on adding a second graphics card in the near future or, maybe, moving from integrated graphics to a power hungry card. 

***

Side question - anyone aware of any stress or benchmark program that fully taxes the CPU, GPU, RAM and drives at the same point in time? It seems to me an "artificial" scenario (like a stress or benchmark test) would be the only scenario where that might actually happen - but I am not aware of any that do that. Typical "real-world" scenarios tend to be CPU or GPU intensive, not both at the same time - at least not for more than a few clock-cycles at once.


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 25, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> Side question - anyone aware of any stress or benchmark program that fully taxes the CPU, GPU, RAM and drives at the same point in time?



I know there's a tool that does this, but the name is escaping me.

It is a pretty artificial scenario so I never used it.


----------



## Sandbo (Oct 26, 2020)

R-T-B said:


> I know there's a tool that does this, but the name is escaping me.
> 
> It is a pretty artificial scenario so I never used it.


I wonder if you could just run Prime95+Furmark at the same time.


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 26, 2020)

Sandbo said:


> I wonder if you could just run Prime95+Furmark at the same time.


Not furmark...please not furmark... 

But maybe Unigine Superposition or something.... That will give you a good idea................see below.

BUt holy shiza, I am not planning my rig around 100% nameplate values. There ISN'T a situation, that I can think of), on a desktop PC where that happens. On boot, your HDDs spin up... but the CPU/GPU isn't at 100%, not close. Gaming, nope...HDDs are at rest most of the time and gaming loads on a CPU are nothing compared to rendering/prime 95, etc. So, just something simple like a GPU test and CPU test is plenty overkill and easily 'good enough'.


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 26, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> BUt holy shiza, I am not planning my rig around 100% nameplate values. There ISN'T a situation, that I can think of), on a desktop PC where that happens.



I can.  But it isn't what you call a normal use case.


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 26, 2020)

R-T-B said:


> I can.  But it isn't what you call a normal use case.


Thats my point. You can try to fake it... but why? There isnt a realistic use case (desktop) where the cpu, gpu, hdds, etc are full tilt....


----------



## Rei (Oct 26, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Thats my point. You can try to fake it... but why? There isnt a realistic use case (desktop) where the cpu, gpu, hdds, etc are full tilt....


May be a good stresser for PSU and/or UPS power load benchmark....


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 26, 2020)

Rei said:


> May be a good stresser for PSU and/or UPS power load benchmark....


Thats a reason to do it... sure... but not a use case for a desktop.


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 26, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Thats a reason to do it... sure... but not a use case for a desktop.



The only use case I have that comes close is mining, and I'm not sure that's "Desktop" though some Desktop users have certainly attempted it.


----------



## GeeBee (Nov 5, 2020)

Hello to all the tech gurus here lol. 

Didn't want to start a new thread for something trivial, so...

I would like to get into gaming (most likely sim racing), so I'm waiting for the dust to sort of settle down and (hopefully!) get this card for 4K 60Hz gaming (my monitor specs).






						AORUS GeForce RTX™ 3080 MASTER 10G (rev. 1.0) Gallery | Graphics Card - GIGABYTE U.S.A.
					

Discover AORUS premium graphics cards, ft. WINDFORCE cooling, RGB lighting, PCB protection, and VR friendly features for the best gaming and VR experience!




					www.gigabyte.com
				




My CPU is a 9700k and my Power Supply a Seasonic 650W Titanium  (a few months old with minimal usage).

Do ya think my Power Supply will be up for it or do I need to go for the 850W equivalent?

Thanks for your time reading my 1st post.


----------



## Rei (Nov 5, 2020)

GeeBee said:


> Hello to all the tech gurus here lol.
> 
> Didn't want to start a new thread for something trivial, so...
> 
> ...


Welcome to TPU!
I think it would've been best had you started your own thread as you will find there will be alotta inputs here.

As for your question, your SeaSonic is a Titanium rating? Anyway, your PSU, especially if it's new somewhat new, should be good enough even for your CPU + RTX 3080.


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## GeeBee (Nov 5, 2020)

Ah, ok then.

Noticed that Gigabyte recommends a 750W power supply for their 3080 - hence the ask.

Cheers


----------



## Rei (Nov 5, 2020)

GeeBee said:


> Ah, ok then.
> 
> Noticed that Gigabyte recommends a 750W power supply for their 3080 - hence the ask.
> 
> Cheers


Nvidia themself recommended a 650W but that also came with some padding involved. I assume Gigabyte added alotta padding there hence a bit exaggerated on PSU requirement. Had you a 550W or 600W with less than a Gold rating, then I would've recommended you at least 750W with at least a Bronze rating.


----------



## Vayra86 (Nov 5, 2020)

Personally wouldn't want to sit below 750W with a 300W+ card.

Running PSUs at top load isn't a great thing to do. Noise, but also degradation might push it over the edge a few years earlier.

I've learned to just spend the extra 10-20 bucks to get brutally oversized PSUs for any rig with discrete GPU and overclockable components. No regrets. 40-50% headroom is just fine.


----------



## Calmmo (Nov 5, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> Personally wouldn't want to sit below 750W with a 300W+ card.
> 
> Running PSUs at top load isn't a great thing to do. Noise, but also degradation might push it over the edge a few years earlier.
> 
> I've learned to just spend the extra 10-20 bucks to get brutally oversized PSUs for any rig with discrete GPU and overclockable components. No regrets. 40-50% headroom is just fine.




Ampere cards have some crazy spikes based on what I've been told. Unless you like the idea of triggering your PSU's overcurrent protection, play it safe.
Never undestood why everyone seems so cheap when it comes to psu's anyway. If one can afford a 900-1000$ 3080 one should be able to afford an extra $20 or $30 for an +100w PSU varriant. Heck last year when i bought my PSU, the the price gap between the same models 850 and 1k versions was an astounding... $5. I'm a big spender obviously so I went with the 1k unit.


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 5, 2020)

Calmmo said:


> Ampere cards have some crazy spikes based on what I've been told. Unless you like the idea of triggering your PSU's overcurrent protection, play it safe.
> Never undestood why everyone seems so cheap when it comes to psu's anyway. If one can afford a 900-1000$ 3080 one should be able to afford an extra $20 or $30 for an +100w PSU varriant. Heck last year when i bought my PSU, the the price gap between the same models 850 and 1k versions was an astounding... $5. I'm a big spender obviously so I went with the 1k unit.


I'll say this again.......... I run a 750W PSU with an overclocked i9-10980XE (18c/36t) @ 4.5 GHz with a RTX 3080 Strix. I have zero issues with this system drawing ~550W at the wall. The unit isn't noisy (I can't hear the fan over four Yate Loons on whisper quiet) and won't die sooner than if I paid $20 more for 850W or $50-100 for something truly overkill. 

Typically the difference between a 750W unit and 1KW unit of the same brand/model is a lot more than $5.


----------



## wolf (Nov 5, 2020)

System as shown in specs, Never have I once pulled 500w from the wall.


----------



## GeeBee (Nov 5, 2020)

How do you calculate your ps consumption? A special tool via a UPS or something? Would love to know.


----------



## Rei (Nov 5, 2020)

GeeBee said:


> How do you calculate your ps consumption? A special tool via a UPS or something? Would love to know.


Most PSU brand/manufacturer will have a power calculator on their website. Here is another link that is constantly being recommended by another longtime avid tech expert also here in this TPU forum @Bill_Bright.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Nov 5, 2020)

GeeBee said:


> How do you calculate your ps consumption?


Yep - the OuterVision PSU calculator is the best calculator to determine your needs - especially before buying your PSU. It is much better than guessing or arbitrarily picking a size. And it is much easier than researching each component individually because the developers have a team of researchers doing that for us.

But you asked, how to calculate your "consumption"? You don't "calculate" consumption, you "measure" it. Is that what you wanted to do? If so, then many UPS do have a status display panel that will tell you how much the connected devices are currently consuming. Many UPS come with software, like APC's PowerChute, that will give you that information too - if you have connected the APC UPS to your computer via USB.

You can also use a kill-a-watt meter to measure what is being pulled through the wall outlet.

Oh, and FTR, many sites and PSU makers, like Seasonic, use a trimmed down version of the OuterVision PSU calc.

Edit comment: fixed typo and added comment about Seasonic's PSU calc.


----------



## GeeBee (Nov 5, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> But you asked how to calculate your "consumption"? You don't "calculate" consumption, you "measure" it. Is that what you wanted to do? If so, then many UPS do have a status display panel that will tell you how much the connected devices are currently consuming. Many UPS come with software, like APC's PowerChute, that will give you that information too - if you have connected the APC UPS to your computer via USB.


Quite right. Measure it. 

English ain't my mother tongue, as they say. 



Bill_Bright said:


> You can also use a kill-a-watt meter to measure what is being pulled through the wall outlet.


Never heard of that before.

Cheers


----------



## Rei (Nov 5, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> But you asked, how to calculate your "consumption"? You don't "calculate" consumption, you "measure" it. Is that what you wanted to do? If so, then many UPS do have a status display panel that will tell you how much the connected devices are currently consuming. Many UPS come with software, like APC's PowerChute, that will give you that information too - if you have connected the APC UPS to your computer via USB.
> 
> You can also use a kill-a-watt meter to measure what is being pulled through the wall outlet.
> 
> ...


I think he meant PSU, as he never mentioned UPS throughout this thread. Those two words are too identical, even power-related.

But if @GeeBee does really mean UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) & not PSU (Power Supply Unit), then that OuterVision's calculator also includes what UPS rating you would need in the calculation.
I would also recommend getting UPS too if GeeBee's region constantly gets blackouts if you haven't have one already. Get one with AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulation) which should stabilize electrical current.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 5, 2020)

Rei said:


> I think he meant PSU, as he never mentioned UPS throughout this thread.


Ummm, yes he did - in post #81 above. Note GeeBee is not the OP.


----------



## Rei (Nov 5, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> Ummm, yes he did - in post #81 above. Note GeeBee is not the OP.


You're right. I figured he just misspelled PSU in that post. My mistake for not observing the wording carefully.


----------



## GeeBee (Nov 5, 2020)

Rei said:


> I would also recommend getting UPS too if GeeBee's region constantly gets blackouts if you haven't have one already. Get one with AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulation) which should stabilize electrical current.


I've sort of confused you, sorry. 

Yup. Meant measuring the ps (power supply) consumption.

The outages / voltage drops what have you, are quite common where I live, unfortunately. They're random and occur very often too.  So, I've had the Accupower one (attached a PDF) for many years - a fine companion, I would say.

Do not have a serial port to use the software for it though. However, I'm down for upgrading soon anyway and this baby looks beautiful. 






						CP1500EPFCLCD - Backup UPS Systems | CyberPower
					

CyberPower CP1500EPFCLCD with Pure Sine Wave output safeguards mid- to high-end computer systems, servers and networking hardware that use conventional and Active Power Factor Correction (PFC) power supplies. Designed with GreenPower UPS™ Technology to improve operating efficiency and to...




					www.cyberpower.com


----------



## Bill_Bright (Nov 5, 2020)

GeeBee said:


> Do not have a serial port to use the software for it though.


But it does say it has one USB "Management Cable" and comes with PowerPanel software so you can monitor and control it via your computer via USB. In the mean time, the front panel display should tell you the consumption of all the connected devices.


----------



## GeeBee (Nov 5, 2020)

The CyberPower, yes.

Not the Accupower I have right now.


----------



## Rei (Nov 5, 2020)

GeeBee said:


> I've sort of confused you, sorry.
> 
> Yup. Meant measuring the ps (power supply) consumption.
> 
> ...


That CyberPower UPS does looks awesome indeed. I would love to get my hands on one. But at the moment I don't really need another UPS replacement. I don't think you need to either unless you want that neat display, longer UPS usage, ability to monitor your UPS & power usage through your PC in greater detail or your current Accupower UPS has been showing signs of degradation.


----------



## GeeBee (Nov 5, 2020)

Rei said:


> I don't think you need to either unless you want that neat display, longer UPS usage, ability to monitor your UPS & power usage through your PC in greater detail or your current Accupower UPS has been showing signs of degradation.


It just looks so tempting ha ha. Damn thing is pricey though. 

Nah, the Accupower has been great. Changed batteries to it a couple of times as well. A friend helped me out.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Nov 6, 2020)

Changing the batteries in UPS ever 3 - 5 years is normal, routine maintenance.


----------



## wolf (Nov 6, 2020)

GeeBee said:


> How do you calculate your ps consumption? A special tool via a UPS or something? Would love to know.


For mine it's hooked up to a UPS which gives a live readout of power draw, I suppose it's not absolutely bulletproof in that there could be momentarily small spikes, but I'm not worried. the never exceeding 500w was when experimenting with overclocking too, currently undervolted and I'm lucky to see 450w on the readout.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Nov 6, 2020)

wolf said:


> never exceeding 500w was when experimenting with overclocking too


Most users would be surprised how little the power demands of their computers actually are. It is important to understand power supplies demand from the wall what they need to support the connected devices. So if the computer (CPU, GPU, motherboard, fans, drives, RAM) need 250W, the power supply will only deliver 250W and will only pull from the wall 250W, plus a little extra to compensate for the PSUs inefficiencies. That is regardless if the PSU is a 450W PSU, or a 850W PSU. 

As for going by the UPS, I cannot speak for wolf, but in my case, not only is my UPS supporting this computer, it is also supporting my modem, wireless router, a 4-port Ethernet switch, and "two" 24 inch monitors. And as I type this, the demands for all those components total just 123W.


----------



## delshay (Nov 6, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> Personally wouldn't want to sit below 750W with a 300W+ card.
> 
> Running PSUs at top load isn't a great thing to do. Noise, but also degradation might push it over the edge a few years earlier.
> 
> I've learned to just spend the extra 10-20 bucks to get brutally oversized PSUs for any rig with discrete GPU and overclockable components. No regrets. 40-50% headroom is just fine.



This is why I sometimes never take anyone opinions or recommendations as you never know what CPU, GPU will be released in the future. Buy one power supply from a well known maker of high quality PSU & be done with. This way I'm ready for anything, & I don't need to worry about a PSU. The lowest good quality PSU I own is 800w SFX Titanium & it goes up from there, Titanium & Platinum class with more power.

All my other PSU below 800w I just use those for testing, & I don't care if they blow up.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Nov 6, 2020)

To be clear, Titanium and Platinum certified PSUs do NOT imply better quality PSU over Gold or even Bronze. As I just noted in another thread, 80 PLUS certification criteria do not ensure quality regulation, superior ripple suppression, or tighter tolerances to the required 12V, 5V or 3.3V DC output voltages.


----------



## dirtyferret (Nov 6, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> Most users would be surprised how little the power demands of their computers actually are. It is important to understand power supplies demand from the wall what they need to support the connected devices. So if the computer (CPU, GPU, motherboard, fans, drives, RAM) need 250W, the power supply will only deliver 250W and will only pull from the wall 250W, plus a little extra to compensate for the PSUs inefficiencies. That is regardless if the PSU is a 450W PSU, or a 850W PSU.


Yes but if I purchase a 1000w PSU I'm fairly certain my hardware will pull even more power then it's designed to use so my FPS will increase, my RGB fans will be brighter, I will finally be able to see a difference in ray tracing supported games, my hair will grow back, I will lose 15lbs in weight, my taxes will go down, etc., etc.,


Bill_Bright said:


> To be clear, Titanium and Platinum certified PSUs do NOT imply better quality PSU over Gold or even Bronze. As I just noted in another thread, 80 PLUS certification criteria do not ensure quality regulation, superior ripple suppression, or tighter tolerances to the required 12V, 5V or 3.3V DC output voltages.


May not even imply the user will have titanium or platinum efficiency in the user's specific PC.  All it means is that specific PSU passed it's 80plus test (be it bronze, silver, gold, etc.,) at 25c.


----------



## John Naylor (Nov 6, 2020)

I ran a municipal electric power utiliuyty for 8 years. and while, not the "same thing", if we sized power generation and distribution equipemnt for peak loads, people couldn't afford electricity.    Ebvn on an industrial scale, recognice that turning on en electri cal motor can typically pull 6 - 10 times their full power current.  We don't design for full per current, not the starting capacity.  We do have to design for the "inrush current" and therefore after a power outage after standby generator sets are running, motor starts are staggered such that that inrush does not iccur at the same time.   PC electrinics OTOH, are not motors.   And while they do have peak instantaneous loads,   it does not impact a PSU to the extent that damage / failures occur.  Thats what capacitors are for.

If you are running a typical system, a quality 650 watt PSU  will be fine.    Here's the calculated peak  calculated power consumption measured for a MSI 3080 Gaming Trio and 2nd the peak measured consumption

359 - https://www.guru3d.com/index.php?ct=articles&action=file&id=64084
385 - https://tpucdn.com/review/msi-geforce-rtx-3080-gaming-x-trio/images/power-gaming-peak.png

However .... the Power Limiter is set at 350 ...


			https://tpucdn.com/review/msi-geforce-rtx-3080-gaming-x-trio/images/tdp-adjustment-limit.png
		


No... you do not need to design for peak instantaneous load in single digits of milliseconds.  Where 650 comes from

385 (GFX) + 125 (CPU) + 40 (MoBo) + 40 (misc) = 590 + 50 cushion = 640 watts

With a moderate OC, a 750 would serve (590 x 1.25).   For those looking to keep things quiet and capability of OCing "bawlz to the wall", I'd choose an 850 watter (590 x F) where F = 1.33 - 1.50 ... will you ever see that load ....no, not even running stress tests of CPU and GPU simultaneously.  So why 850 ?

1.  When doing serious overclocking, voltage instability and electrical noise are problematic and when a PSU is stressed up near its full rating, these to be negatively impacted.

2.  When we stay a bit away from the power rating, fan speeds are lower if not in passive mode.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Nov 6, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> Yes but if I purchase a 1000w PSU I'm fairly certain my hardware will pull even more power then it's designed to use so my FPS will increase, my RGB fans will be brighter, I will finally be able to see a difference in ray tracing supported games, my hair will grow back, I will lose 15lbs in weight, my taxes will go down, etc., etc.,


LOL Well, if the connected components pull more than designed, there's a fault (short or partial short) somewhere. Not good. 



dirtyferret said:


> All it means is that specific PSU passed it's 80plus test (be it bronze, silver, gold, etc.,) at 25c.


Good point about the temperature. To be precise (sorta), the 80 PLUS testing standard says 23°C ± 5°C (the ±5° is the "sorta" part). That's actually a fairly cool environment and that's why most decent supplies are rated by the manufacturer at 40°C and some as high as 50°C. 

As far as your hair growing back and your taxes going "down", that's true - and I'm going to win the lottery too!


----------



## Franzen4Real (Nov 6, 2020)

GeeBee said:


> Do not have a serial port to use the software for it though. However, I'm down for upgrading soon anyway and this baby looks beautiful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have that CyberPower UPS, it is quite nice. As Bill_Bright mentioned, it does show a real time power consumption level of all devices plugged into it on the front screen. When connected by USB, the software offers many utilities and monitoring tools. I would suggest watching BB for a sale. Most of the time they are more expensive than the major online e-tailers, but every once in a while they have a sale on them that is considerably cheaper than online (this is how I bought mine).


----------



## Bill_Bright (Nov 6, 2020)

Franzen4Real said:


> I would suggest watching BB for a sale.


I agree with this. BB (BestBuy) is not normally my first choice, but they do occasionally have some good sales. But of course, BB is only located in the US, Canada and Mexico. 

I bought my last APC 1500VA UPS at Sam's. It was cheaper than Amazon.


----------



## wolf (Nov 6, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> Most users would be surprised how little the power demands of their computers actually are. It is important to understand power supplies demand from the wall what they need to support the connected devices. So if the computer (CPU, GPU, motherboard, fans, drives, RAM) need 250W, the power supply will only deliver 250W and will only pull from the wall 250W, plus a little extra to compensate for the PSUs inefficiencies. That is regardless if the PSU is a 450W PSU, or a 850W PSU.
> 
> As for going by the UPS, I cannot speak for wolf, but in my case, not only is my UPS supporting this computer, it is also supporting my modem, wireless router, a 4-port Ethernet switch, and "two" 24 inch monitors. And as I type this, the demands for all those components total just 123W.


Indeed the requirements are lower than most would think. 

And spot on, mine powers everything on the table so I had to unplug a few things to get a good idea of what the monitor etc pulls. Typically I'd say the gaming box when fully stressed uses 300-375w in its current state and without the tuning I've done 350-425w.

Im lucky enough to have a separate ups power just the modem/router, so I could be online gaming late at night during a thunderstorm and if the power went out I'd have a comfortable amount of time to finish my game (and probably a few more) and the Wi-Fi stays on for aaaages.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Nov 7, 2020)

Yeah, if I lose power, if I quickly power off my computer and monitors, and just leave running my network gear connected to my APC 1500VA UPS, my network will stay alive for at least 5 hours. I can then still access the Internet and communicate with the outside world with my wireless devices (notebook, cell phone, etc.).


----------



## Milocore (Nov 21, 2020)

Hi all guys.

I bought and installed my new Gigabyte RTX 3080 Vision OC replacing my old Asus gtx1080 and sometimes (not always) when I start playing a thirsty game like Black OPS Cold War, RDR2, or Valhalla, the computer restarts automatically.

I made some stress test (3D mark etc.) and nothing happen, everything seems to be fine. 

I have a PSU from EVGA mODEL EVGA Supernova G3 850W 80 Plus Gold Modular . 

I let here some screenshots to see the rest of my pc components. 

It's strange because sometimes I can play for hours and nothing happen.







Hope you can help me...

Thanks a lot


----------



## GeeBee (Nov 21, 2020)

I ain't an expert (by any means), but I seriously doubt your problem is due to your ps.

I've actually read elsewhere that you wouldn't be  able to boot, if the ps was indeed causing this behavior.

You'd need to release a switch or something. Again, I ain't a guru in this field lol.


----------



## Deleted member 193596 (Nov 21, 2020)

highly depends. 
a bequiet system power 750W can't handle a 3090/10900k
a bequiet dark power pro 11 platinum 650W can handle a 3090/10900k.

i have a 3080 TUF OC and it isn't a problem with my dark power pro 11 750W

even my 3090 Gaming X Trio (380W) and my 10850k running at 1.4V (around 200W when loading a Game... ) to reach 5.1 Ghz all Core works like a charm with it. 


buy a high end PSU and you'll be fine. (i'd mostly recommend a high tier PSU for every single PC that does not is a ryzen 3 1200, gt 1030 build.)


----------



## Milocore (Nov 21, 2020)

@GeeBee @WarTherapy1195 

Thanks for your reply guys.
I just ordered a Corsair HX1000, would it be fine with this or do you recommend any other one?

Thanks a lot


----------



## Deleted member 193596 (Nov 21, 2020)

Milocore said:


> @GeeBee @WarTherapy1195
> 
> Thanks for your reply guys.
> I just ordered a Corsair HX1000, would it be fine with this or do you recommend any other one?
> ...



you will be fine even with the 500W strix OC  
the HX series is not the "premium" AX(i) series but still decent and above average.
i personally go with seasonic or bequiet!


----------



## Milocore (Nov 21, 2020)

@WarTherapy1195  thanks!

hope it solves the issue! It’s very bad that Nvidia rtx 3080 transient spikes  response is not good with only  some psu models...

I will post if it’s still happening after the replace


----------



## Rei (Nov 21, 2020)

Milocore said:


> @GeeBee @WarTherapy1195
> 
> Thanks for your reply guys.
> I just ordered a Corsair HX1000, would it be fine with this or do you recommend any other one?
> ...


I would hold off the ordering of a new PSU if you aren't sure if the PSU is really the cause of the problem. Try using some other PSU first borrowing from whoever you could borrow or bring it to a repair shop for testing.

How old is your EVGA anyway? Apperently, the age does matter as efficiency drops after many years.


----------



## Milocore (Nov 22, 2020)

@Rei thanks for the advise and the reply.
 Unfortunately I don’t have the opportunity to borrow a PSU but in this store in Spain I can refund with no problem just in that case.
I have read many threads (also in official EVGA) and my PSu is one of these ones which struggles with the new 3080...

hopefully the new one solves the issue


----------



## John Naylor (Nov 22, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> Yeah, if I lose power, if I quickly power off my computer and monitors, and just leave running my network gear connected to my APC 1500VA UPS, my network will stay alive for at least 5 hours. I can then still access the Internet and communicate with the outside world with my wireless devices (notebook, cell phone, etc.).



When power goes out, I typically launch the Power Panel and minimize ... I can easily run AutoCAD or play my circa 2004 MMO for 20 - 30 minutes or more which covers most outages.  When I see remaining run time drop down to a level of concern, I'll power down .  Looking at the outage frequency... we have had 4 instances momentary outages < 2 -3 minutes and 3 outages of 20 - 30 minutes.  It powers the PC, one screen, modem, router, and MicroCell with load ranging from 195 - 218 watts.  One of the 4 short ones,  later found out, was a series or maintenance related disconnects where they were replacing lines resulting in a series of short interruptions throughout the day.   We had a project due by close of business so luckily, was able to complete the drawing revisions during a 9 hour CAD session w/o having to shut down, and was able to send out copies to contractor on time.

Our situation is a bit different than yours, tho we have poor cell service indoors due to being out in the boonies on a large heavily wooded lot as well as foil faced insulation in walls , hence the Microcell,  ... phones and lappies can get a signal by walking about 50 feet up the driveway or sitting next to a south facing window.



Milocore said:


> @GeeBee @WarTherapy1195
> 
> Thanks for your reply guys.
> I just ordered a Corsair HX1000, would it be fine with this or do you recommend any other one?
> ...



The original semi modular HX1000 has long been discontinued so thast one I'd avoid; the full modular unit is still in production.  That being said, Id much rather have a Seasonic Focus Gold Plus ... prices in spain range from €104.24 for a 650 to €110.48  for a 750.









						MSI GeForce RTX 3080 GAMING X TRIO review
					

In this review, we benchmark the GeForce RTX 3080 GAMING X Trio from MSI; yes MSI is back with a new Gaming X Trio, with that TRIO, of course, short for a triple-fan solution with an otherwise heavil... Hardware setup | Power consumption




					www.guru3d.com
				




_"Here is our power supply recommendation:_

_*GeForce RTX 3070 - *On your average system we recommend a 550 Watt power supply unit._
_*GeForce RTX 3080 - *On your average system we recommend a 650 Watt power supply unit._
_*GeForce RTX 3090 - *On your average system we recommend a 750 Watt power supply unit._
_If you are going to overclock your GPU or processor, then we do recommend you purchase something with some more stamina. "_


----------



## Milocore (Nov 22, 2020)

@John Naylor  I just bought 3 days ago from this web of Spain https://www.coolmod.com/corsair-hx1...fuente-psu-precio?virtuemart_category_id=1495

I see now is out of stock, I think it is full modular HX1000.

Is not a good choice?

Thanks


----------



## Rei (Nov 22, 2020)

Milocore said:


> @Rei thanks for the advise and the reply.
> Unfortunately I don’t have the opportunity to borrow a PSU but in this store in Spain I can refund with no problem just in that case.
> I have read many threads (also in official EVGA) and my PSu is one of these ones which struggles with the new 3080...
> 
> hopefully the new one solves the issue


Then most likely, your PSU might have electrical performance-compatibility issue with RTX 3080 rather than your PSU not supplying enough power to your system as an 850 Watt with Gold rating should normally be capable of handling an average spec rig.


Milocore said:


> @John Naylor  I just bought 3 days ago from this web of Spain https://www.coolmod.com/corsair-hx1...fuente-psu-precio?virtuemart_category_id=1495
> 
> I see now is out of stock, I think it is full modular HX1000.
> 
> ...


It is a good choice but a bit overkill for it's price for your system. Also being discontinued means that you won't get full support for your PSU from EVGA & possibly no warranty either.


----------



## Yagma (Nov 27, 2020)

Some of the EVGA supernova models go supernova with the 3080... everyone has issues with those, their overcurrent protections kick in and reboot the system.  see the reviews here, and this, and you will find more if you look. "_After instillation, I powered on the computer and there was a pop, and some smoke, no boot. Smell/smoke was coming from 2 of my hard drives. , when removed the computer now boots, but still doesn't recognize a 3rd hard drive. None of those 3 work on other computers either, with same errors. Seems to run normally now._" ~ Newegg reviewer, 750 model. They don't call it supernova for nothing.

I would use the tier A PSU list on Linus Tech Tips, and there is a list of working PSU's on evga forums


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 27, 2020)

Rei said:


> Then most likely, your PSU might have electrical performance-compatibility issue with RTX 3080 rather than your PSU not supplying enough power to your system as an 850 Watt with Gold rating should normally be capable of handling an average spec rig.
> 
> It is a good choice but a bit overkill for it's price for your system. Also being discontinued means that you won't get full support for your PSU from EVGA & possibly no warranty either.


Thats an (old?) Corsair psu, the hx series. If its discontinued it still gets the full warranty (assuming it's new).


----------



## xrobwx71 (Nov 27, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> Changing the batteries in UPS ever 3 - 5 years is normal, routine maintenance.


Very accurate there Bill. I have 8 at the store and you are spot on. I just recently upgraded them to Eaton (based on research) as I've had other issues with the APC's (XS1500's) Issues: letting surges through and simply failing to work even after battery change. I've had 2 APC complete fails in 2 years. I've been running the Eatons for about 6 months and so far so good. 
I'm not entirely blaming APC as this is an old building even though the interior wiring, panels, and circuits have been upgraded, I suspect we still have some issues outside from Hurricane Michael (CAT5 OCT 2018)
My 2 tint machines are the main concerns here at $30K a pop.


----------



## Milocore (Dec 6, 2020)

Hi All.

PSU replaced by Asus ROG Strix 850G 80 Plus Gold 850W Modular and no more reboots, everything working perfectly!

Thanks to all for your help


----------



## Rei (Dec 6, 2020)

Milocore said:


> Hi All.
> 
> PSU replaced by Asus ROG Strix 850G 80 Plus Gold 850W Modular and no more reboots, everything working perfectly!
> 
> Thanks to all for your help


Your welcome, we're always here to help.

So how much did you buy it for?


----------



## Snoddventje (Jan 17, 2021)

Hey Guys,

I've put together a rig start of december. Consisting of the following items:

AMD Ryzen 7 3700X (BOX) Boxed

Gigabyte Aorus X570 ELITE

Gigabyte GeForce RTX 3080 Aorus 10G

Fractal Design Vector RS Tempered Glass

be quiet! Dark Rock 4

Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB CMT32GX4M2C3200C16

be quiet! Straight Power 11 650W

Samsung 980 Pro 1TB

I've been having problems that when I run graphically heavy games (escape from tarkov (EFT) and CoD cold wars) the game freezes for a second and then it won't really go further anymore. It will just stay on a single frame.
In EFT I noticed that after the freeze i can still "play", but that my screen will remain frozen. So I will try and hide and then force quit the game, I will get an error message and then I will restart asap to get back in the game.

I googled a bit and I was worried that my PSU was too slow. So currently Im using MSI afterburner to underclock my GPU (First with 50MHz, now with 80MHz). At first this seemed to solve the problem, but since two days I've been having the exact same problem. Sometimes my underclock disappeared for some reason (after an update or something).

I JUST saw that maybe I didn't underclock it properly. So I'm gonna test it again.

Anyway, can it be my PSU? It's only 650w, but it should be a pretty good one. And if underclocking works again well maybe that's fine for now, but I rather just have it run on full power.....


----------



## GeeBee (Jan 17, 2021)

It really depends on what else you have on, but a 750w ps is definitely a safer option.


----------



## Snoddventje (Jan 17, 2021)

GeeBee said:


> It really depends on what else you have on, but a 750w ps is definitely a safer option.


What other things would you mean? Yeah I was looking into a 750/850w option. I can put the 650w I'm using in my old rig, because the PSU of that one kinda died.


----------



## GeeBee (Jan 17, 2021)

Well, anything that would add up to the power draw. Mechanical drives, other PCI express cards, USB devices, lights, fans and whatnot.

There are tools online that help out in that direction.






						Wattage Calculator
					

How much wattage do I need my power supply to have for my new PC build? This tool will help you select a suitable power supply unit for your system.




					seasonic.com
				




If you plan on getting a new one, maybe a 850w ps is an even wiser choice.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Jan 17, 2021)

A good 650W PSU (and that beQuiet 650W is a decent one) is plenty big - assuming it is functioning properly. 

Note that all PSU calculators pad the results, some more than others, because they never ever want to recommend an under-powered PSU. The eXtreme Outervision PSU is, by far, the most conservative because it is the most comprehensive and most flexible. So it never goes overboard in the padding of the results. However, I padded it even more by pushing CPU Utilization to 100%, show you have 4 sticks of RAM, added a Blu-Ray drive, stated you use the computer 16 per day and as seen here, the recommended PSU size is 575W. So you have a nice 75W to spare. 

Now before someone jumps in and says 75W is not very much, note when calculating PSU requirements, regardless if using a calculator or if you do your own research and calculate manually, it must be assumed that the CPU, GPU, RAM, motherboard, drives, fans and everything else are all maxing out power demands at the exact same point in time. That would be an extremely rare event in real world usage. 

I think you should borrow another PSU from another computer, perhaps from a trusting friend or relative and swap that in there see what happens. If the second PSU resolves your issue, I say 750W is considerably more than you need. 850W is overkill and a waste of money unless you stumble on a discounted deal that is too good to pass up. 

PS: Note the Seasonic PSU calc is an abbreviated version of Outer Visions. Is say, use the more comprehensive and flexible original version if you want the most accurate estimate. 

********

Wait a minute! Who's thread is this? DRDOOM started it.


----------



## tacticurn (Feb 24, 2021)

What would _*YOU *_pick if the choice was between a *Corsair HX750* (80+ Plat) and a *Seasonic Focus GX-850* (80+ Gold) if the *prices were the same?* I have a 8700K with a 3080, using it for video editing and gaming after hours. Outervision puts me about here. Used to run with a Tx850 since 2011, and its starting to show its age on the noise level mostly. And nephew has a need for a hand me down. I am asking because there are a couple of deals in town where I can get either of those for around 130 euro incl. VAT. And that is a bargain if you ask me.


----------



## Caring1 (Feb 24, 2021)

The Seasonic Focus, the difference between Platinum and Gold is negligable but the extra 100W might make a difference in stability.


----------



## jboydgolfer (Feb 24, 2021)

get the 850w Focus+


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## X71200 (Feb 24, 2021)

tacticurn said:


> What would _*YOU *_pick if the choice was between a *Corsair HX750* (80+ Plat) and a *Seasonic Focus GX-850* (80+ Gold) if the *prices were the same?* I have a 8700K with a 3080, using it for video editing and gaming after hours. Outervision puts me about here. Used to run with a Tx850 since 2011, and its starting to show its age on the noise level mostly. And nephew has a need for a hand me down. I am asking because there are a couple of deals in town where I can get either of those for around 130 euro incl. VAT. And that is a bargain if you ask me.



I'm not surprised to see an individual mention Igor (this guy never had an Ampere card and a scope in the first place) make up information out of thin air.

Now with that said out, you could try this:



			https://pcpartpicker.com/product/DKw7YJ/phanteks-revolt-pro-850-w-80-gold-certified-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-ph-p850gc
		


Basically a juiced out Seasonic with the ability to run two PCs and whatnot.


----------



## tacticurn (Feb 24, 2021)

X71200 said:


> Now with that said out, you could try this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, but this Phanteks PSU isn't on sale, so it would cost me shy of 50€ extra. What would the juiced out bits get me that makes the extra money worth it compared to the Seasonic Focus GX-850?


----------



## freeagent (Feb 24, 2021)

jboydgolfer said:


> get the 850w Focus+


The Focus Plus and Prime Ultra were the units with 30 series problems were they not?

I was under the impression the new Focus and Prime no longer had the issue..

I would get the GX if the price is the same.


----------



## X71200 (Feb 24, 2021)

Not a whole lot much, if you could link to a site you're buying from, there might be some other Focus based units than Seasonic's own.

Check out Super Flower's stuff, they make some good units as well. EVGA rebadges and sells those.


----------



## tacticurn (Feb 24, 2021)

jboydgolfer said:


> get the 850w Focus+


It isn't a Focus Plus, but a Focus GX-850 - I compared them on Seasonic's home page and couldn't see a difference between them. Same efficiency rating so, guess its fine?



X71200 said:


> Not a whole lot much, if you could link to a site you're buying from, there might be some other Focus based units than Seasonic's own.
> 
> Check out Super Flower's stuff, they make some good units as well. EVGA rebadges and sells those.


ITs from https://www.happii.dk/ - they have Super Flower at a significantly higher price but the EVGA GQ 850 for same price. So the EVGA is an OEM Focus with same quality build but EVGA customer support?


----------



## X71200 (Feb 24, 2021)

The GQ is not too good, EVGA does not use Seasonic as an OEM. As for the GX, I'd suggest buying a more beefy Seasonic than those. Asus makes some Focus Plus units as well, with bigger fans and heatsinks, etc. I'll check the site.


----------



## tacticurn (Feb 24, 2021)

Beefi


X71200 said:


> The GQ is not too good, EVGA does not use Seasonic as an OEM. As for the GX, I'd suggest buying a more beefy Seasonic than those. Asus makes some Focus Plus units as well, with bigger fans and heatsinks, etc. I'll check the site.


Oh, well, then Ill probably NOT get the GQ. I was kind of thinking 850W was beefy enough for the build I am running (Outervision recommends 650W). So that gives me 150+ W headroom. And there seemed to be somewhat a split between 750W being enough and 850W being a bit overkill but w/e in this thread up to now. You disagree with that I sense?

Edit: Added a rather important 'NOT'


----------



## X71200 (Feb 24, 2021)

It all depends on your CPU and whatnot. You might pull about 500W tops in games, then it might be 600 or 400. Don't listen to Extreme Power Supply calculator, do your own calculation by checking your components and how much power it all consumes.

I wouldn't bother with the GQ, it's not worth it. Here is an overkill unit:






						Super Flower Leadex Titanium - 850W Strømforsyning - 850 Watt - 140 mm - 80 Plus Titanium certified
					

1.828,00 kr. Strømforsyning ( intern ), ATX12V 2.2 / EPS12V 2.92, 80 Plus Titanium, 140 mm blæser, aktiv PFC, kabler: 2 x 6 pins & 6 x 8 (6+2) pins til grafikkort / 10 x 5 pins SATA / 4 x 4 pins Molex / 1 x 20+4 pins ATX / 2 x 4+4 pins CPU, fuld modulær & sleeved kabler, 850 watt.




					www.happii.dk
				




It physically looks like a big PSU though, make sure you have the space.


----------



## tacticurn (Feb 24, 2021)

Thank you for your help, X71200. But it looks like it is twice the cost, and I have been doing fine on an old clanker of a 80+ Bronze certified Corsair TX850 from 2011 for the last 4 months. I think Ill try to scrooge by with a Gold Plus certified replacement. Unless the GX-850 is much worse than what I have, it would probably run just as stable.


----------



## X71200 (Feb 24, 2021)

You're overpaying:






						NZXT C-Series C850 Strømforsyning - 850 Watt - 120 mm - 80 Plus Gold certified
					

999,00 kr. Strømforsyning ( intern ), ATX12V 2.4 / EPS12V 2.92, 80 Plus Gold, 120 mm blæser <strong>med 0 dB mode teknologi</strong>, aktiv PFC, kabler: 6 x 8 (6+2) pins til grafikkort / 8 x 5 pins SATA / 6 x 4 pins Molex / 1 x 20+4 pins ATX, 2 x 4+4 pins CPU, fuld modulær & tynde sleeved...




					www.happii.dk
				




Same PSU with digital monitoring.

Alternatively, this is even kind of better:






						EVGA SuperNOVA 850 P2 Strømforsyning - 850 Watt - 140 mm - 80 Plus Platinum certified
					

1.352,00 kr. Strømforsyning ( intern ), ATX12V 2.31 / EPS12V 2.92, 80 Plus Platinum, 140 mm blæser <strong>med ECO Control Fan - blæseren stopper ved lav belastning</strong>, aktiv PFC, kabler: 4 x 8 (6+2) pins & 2 x 6 pins til grafikkort / 10 x 5 pins SATA / 4 x 4 pins Molex / 1 x Floppy / 1 x...




					www.happii.dk


----------



## ThrashZone (Feb 24, 2021)

Hi,


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## tacticurn (Feb 24, 2021)

With a fairly normal i7 8700K running at 4,9 GHz when boosting, AIO cooler and nothing fancy outside of the 3080 TUF, I'll go with the 850W Gold solution since it is priced the same.


----------



## ThrashZone (Feb 24, 2021)

tacticurn said:


> With a fairly normal i7 8700K running at 4,9 GHz when boosting, AIO cooler and nothing fancy outside of the 3080 TUF, I'll go with the 850W Gold solution since it is priced the same.


Hi,
More important would be what size breaker the computer is on and how much other stuff is connected to the same circuit as this machine.

Otherwise yeah I'd do 850w minimum too the psu chart doesn't account for extra ocing ability with delid chips or specialized cooling like chiller or just taking advantage of seasonal cold weather cooling.


----------



## NesteaZen (Feb 24, 2021)

X71200 said:


> I'm not surprised to see an individual mention Igor (this guy never had an Ampere card and a scope in the first place) make up information out of thin air.
> 
> Now with that said out, you could try this:
> 
> ...


wait what?
you're saying igor made up his 3080 stats or some individual? what individual anyway


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## X71200 (Feb 24, 2021)

NesteaZen said:


> wait what?
> you're saying igor made up his 3080 stats or some individual? what individual anyway



Igor never had an Ampere GPU. The whole capacitor thing was made up without actual evidence in the first place.


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## tacticurn (Feb 24, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> More important would be what size breaker the computer is on and how much other stuff is connected to the same circuit as this machine.
> 
> Otherwise yeah I'd do 850w minimum too the psu chart doesn't account for extra ocing ability with delid chips or specialized cooling like chiller or just taking advantage of seasonal cold weather cooling.


Its a modern housing with 13A rated at 240V for the breaker group my pc is on, and it shares it with the normal fixtures for lights etc. of half the appartment. Kitchen hardware is on third group with 16A. I think the power we got is very stable, and clean.


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## NesteaZen (Feb 24, 2021)

@X71200 who's making this claim?


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## jboydgolfer (Feb 24, 2021)

tacticurn said:


> It isn't a Focus Plus, but a Focus GX-850 - I compared them on Seasonic's home page and couldn't see a difference between them. Same efficiency rating so, guess its fine?


its a focus + with a different name.



freeagent said:


> The Focus Plus and Prime Ultra were the units with 30 series problems were they not?


the problem with the RTX 3 series isnt the PSU, it is that they draw massive power at peak usage in a spike.
the issue is reported with users using many different PSU's from many different OEM PSU makers.
i replaced my focus+ with an identical higher wattage focus+ & it fixed the issue.


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## mouacyk (Feb 24, 2021)

Watercooled 3080 here running fine with Seasonic X-850.


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## jboydgolfer (Feb 24, 2021)

mouacyk said:


> Watercooled 3080 here running fine with Seasonic X-850.


yea, my Over voltage protection shutdowns were with the 3090, on a focus+ 750W. the way i looked at it, i didnt want to order a 850W for $180 & find it didnt cut the power needs, so i just spent $240 for the 1000W version , i figured better safe than sorry.

the beauty is when switching the PSU's, all i had to do was pull the box & the PCI cables, i reused all the other cables from the 750W with the 1000w. as easy an upgrade as installing a new RAM stick almost

i spoke with nvidia , & showed them all the people posting in their own forums about the same issue, how Power supplies that are more than capable based on Nvidias own specs, arent cutting it with real world use of the RTX3 series cards. this is from their own Spec's page.

350W 
750W PSU recommendation. so when a guy owns a 750W Power supply from one of the better PSU makers, he'd be understandably surprised when it isnt capable of powering previously mentioned 3090's/3080's


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