# JonnyGuru talks about power supplies



## thebluebumblebee (Nov 9, 2019)

I found this to be very informative.  I wish that everyone would watch this before posting a question about PSU's.


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## Ferrum Master (Nov 9, 2019)

One of the rare no bullcrap tech video channels.

Good video indeed.


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## natr0n (Nov 9, 2019)

That was nice.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 9, 2019)

Well, I have to say, if folks would just look through the advice given on this site, they would learn everything presented in that video. I didn't learn anything new but it was nice to see everything presented in one video. It was also nice to see it didn't turn out to be a long video advertisement for Corsair supplies.

So I agree with Ferrum Master - it was a good video. 

One thing I was happy to hear was that buying a top tier 80-PLUS certified PSU (Platinum, Titanium or Unobtainium  )  is  not really worth the extra cost as the savings in energy costs just don't add up to the extra purchase price (see around 1:35 in the video). This is why I have always recommended no higher than Gold. 

The one thing I didn't like hearing (and again, it was not anything new) was the fact to get some of the fancier features (braided cables for example) you have to buy the upper tier and higher capacity 80-PLUS supplies. Oh well. That "value added" feature is pretty standard across many industries.


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 9, 2019)

This is probably one of THE best videos I've seen yet. Thank you for sharing this.

Loved it.

Honk if your PSU is over-kill!! lol.


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## biffzinker (Nov 9, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Honk if your PSU is over-kill!! lol.


I probably don't need a 850 watt power supply.








						EVGA 850 BQ, 80+ BRONZE 850W, Semi Modular, 5 Year Warranty, Power Supply 110-BQ-0850-V1
					

Introducing the next generation in value; the EVGA BQ Series. These power supplies take some of the best features from EVGA's award winning power supply lineup, like a 140mm fan with near silent operation and modular cables to make one of the best values today in high performance power supplies.




					www.evga.com
				




The EVGA replaced a Corsair CX650M.


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 9, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> This is probably one of THE best videos I've seen yet. Thank you for sharing this.
> 
> Loved it.
> 
> Honk if your PSU is over-kill!! lol.



Xm2 1250 SS


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## Mr.Scott (Nov 9, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> I didn't learn anything new


Of course you didn't.


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## hurakura (Nov 9, 2019)

so basically 20$ case with power supply is good enough these days


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 9, 2019)

Mr.Scott said:


> Of course you didn't.


Not sure if meant to be snarky or not, but as a tech, I've been working with PSUs for over 45 years. In terms of electronics technologies, AC to DC switching PSU have not changed much in years.  So yeah, he said nothing new so there was nothing new for me to learn. You can certainly search through my posts on this site and see for yourself. The only thing you won't see is me talking about SFF PSUs because I don't think I have on this site before. 

But as I said above, it was still a good video as it put all in one place without sounding like a infomercial.

What did you learn that you never knew before, Mr. Scott? In fact, I'd be curious know what any of the experienced regular posters here learned new. I bet not much, if anything.


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 9, 2019)

I'm in love! 
Give me over-kill + quality and have me a forever PSU!

It may have taught the average users their cheapy 500w PSU may not cut it long with the Radeon VII at 300w power draw.
At least that's what gathered from the video.

Not necessary to over-kill if building system without foreseeable changes to what your purchase calculation was.
But since a PSU can least 10 years (many with 10 year warranty-usually high end) you kind of want to overcompensate just in case NVidia releases some monster dual Gpu card you gotta just get your hands on lol. ya ya good point good point.
Hhmm, maybe 550w is too small.
What say? Call that 750w on the table an industry standard??
Nah, that will just drive up market prices. Let the suckers purchase low end cheap PSUs.
lol omg. Awesome video.

Go get that 750w you've dreamed of. Your 2080ti deserves it. pwahaa.


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## Bones (Nov 10, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> This is probably one of THE best videos I've seen yet. Thank you for sharing this.
> 
> Loved it.
> 
> Honk if your PSU is over-kill!! lol.


*HoooooonK!!!!!!!*
Running a 1600W in this daily build......


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## Sithaer (Nov 10, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> This is probably one of THE best videos I've seen yet. Thank you for sharing this.
> 
> Loved it.
> 
> Honk if your PSU is over-kill!! lol.



Also honking here.

650W is definitely overkill for my stock 1600x and undervolted RX 570.
When I built  my new system in 2018 I did not buy a new PSU cause I still had a fairly new 450W Thermaltake _'cheapo'  _and with a GTX 950 it was more than enough,the RX 570 upgrade was kind of unexpected so I was stuck with that PSU for a while.
Sure it could handle the 570 but the fan noise under gaming load was way too loud for my taste.

So I bought a 650W Gold PSU this year to avoid such scenario happening again and to make sure the fan stays quiet.

Video was nice and informative,for me at least.


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## delshay (Nov 10, 2019)

I would to see this guy here on TPU for a day or two. Questions & Answers. This way I can mod the s**t out of my PSU (upgraded components).


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## P4-630 (Nov 10, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Honk if your PSU is over-kill!! lol.



I7 6700K @ 4.3GHz + MSI RTX2070 Super Gaming X Trio.
650 Watts PSU recommended with this GPU but I use a Seasonic 750 Watts.


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## EarthDog (Nov 10, 2019)

Nice! A good video for the greenhorns, that is for sure!

RE: overprovisioning... it's funny because he says its not really needed and a waste of money if you know your wattage....flat efficiency curves, etc. Something those in know have been preaching for years (which falls on deaf ears...I replied to two threads this morning, in fact - my avatar just feels so apt for this place, lol). "Not a bad idea, just not an economical one".

Ya'll keep honkin' tho!


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## delshay (Nov 10, 2019)

Bones said:


> *HoooooonK!!!!!!!*
> Running a 1600W in this daily build......



You get a like (upvote) 1600w PSU because I think you have too much, but I love lots of power. ...any photo

Daily here 1200w, too much, but I want more.


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 10, 2019)

delshay said:


> You get a like (upvote) 1600w PSU because I think you have too much, but I love lots of power. ...any photo
> 
> Daily here 1200w, too much, but I want more.



FSP Group 2000w 18 sets of PCI-E connectors and 166 amp 12v rail. That's what you need!!


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## delshay (Nov 10, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> FSP Group 2000w 18 sets of PCI-E connectors and 166 amp 12v rail. That's what you need!!



What is the price of this PSU & where to buy.

& is it Titanium, Platinium, ect, ect.

EDIT: Found it here https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/fsp-offers-a-powerful-2000w-dedicated-mining-power-supply.html
& here https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/fsp-mining-psus-computex-2018,37294.html

QUESTION: Has anyone powered their GPU or CPU on a separate PSU from motherboard?


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## phanbuey (Nov 10, 2019)

Thats my PSU they're talking about in the beginning, and I use it in my ATX build with custom cables and the adapter bracket like he said...

I still like using the CX650w modular in my budget/ws builds - been doing it for years without any problems at all... lots of features from the more expensive models.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 10, 2019)

delshay said:


> QUESTION: Has anyone powered their GPU or CPU on a separate PSU from motherboard?


Since both the GPU and CPU get their power (or at least some of it for some GPUs) through the motherboard, it is not possible to power them with a 2nd PSU. But I have used 2 PSUs before, the second to power drives and fans. But this is not recommended because no two PSUs provide the exact same output voltages and avoiding any "differences in potentials" and differences in grounds, and grounding to Earth ground is essential and challenging.


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## phanbuey (Nov 10, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Since both the GPU and CPU get their power (or at least some of it for some GPUs) through the motherboard, it is not possible to power them with a 2nd PSU. But I have used 2 PSUs before, the second to power drives and fans. But this is not recommended because no two PSUs provide the exact same output voltages and avoiding any "differences in potentials" and differences in grounds, and grounding to Earth ground is essential and challenging.



That's not true.  I just did it in a cpu swap where a donor machine was powering the GPU since the spare PSU I had didn't have the appropriate connectors.

You can absolutely power the motherboard and the GPU on different supplies.  You can even run them while they're running different systems.





The red donor machine is powering the GPU, while the rest of the mobo and CPU and waterloop is being powered by a 500w spare PSU.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 10, 2019)

The graphics card is still getting up to 75W through the PCIe slot. That's why I specifically said "some of it for some GPUs".


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## phanbuey (Nov 10, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> The graphics card is still getting up to 75W through the PCIe slot. That's why I specifically said "some of it for some GPUs".



How does that make it "Impossible to run on a separate PSU".

You can even cross wire the 24 pin and the 8 pins on different supplies.  Totally possible.

They even used to make bay psus for vga setups back when bays were still a thing:


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## killster1 (Nov 10, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Well, I have to say, if folks would just look through the advice given on this site, they would learn everything presented in that video. I didn't learn anything new but it was nice to see everything presented in one video. It was also nice to see it didn't turn out to be a long video advertisement for Corsair supplies.
> 
> So I agree with Ferrum Master - it was a good video.
> 
> ...




my fav quote.. "we could only do 750w if it was platinum if we did gold it would run to hot." So it sure sounds like gold is not recommended by him for that size psu?..

 its also extremely amusing you "didnt like hearing platinum had better features" (and parts! he stated it requires better caps to provide better efficiency which leads to better ripple and higher operating temp specs etc) 

so what i take home from this is that 750w plat that i run are indeed not even overkill and that when running a psu more than a few years its actually a good idea. Less upgrades and parts purchased better for the earth in many ways. 
"sweet spot 650w...fan hardly ever runs"


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## 64K (Nov 10, 2019)

A lexus can get you around the same as a Corolla can. But you don't need a Lexus to get you around. That's the point. A quality Bronze Rated unit is just as good as a Titanium Rated unit in that regards. Most people will do a new build before their PSU has even a chance to die anyway.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 10, 2019)

phanbuey said:


> How does that make it "Impossible to run on a separate PSU".


How are your going to prevent the card from getting power through the PCIe slot?


killster1 said:


> its also extremely amusing you "didnt like hearing platinum had better features" (and parts! he stated it requires better caps to provide better efficiency which leads to better ripple and higher operating temp specs etc)


You added "and parts". Not me. 

I said, "fancier features" like "braided cables" and "value added" features - like adapter brackets to mount the SFX PSU in a standard ATX case. Why should we have to pay extra for a Platinum or Titanium PSU just to get an included bracket? Why can't they include that bracket in all their SFX PSU instead of forcing buyers to pay $6 extra (plus shipping)?

I don't like marketing gimmicks and that's just a marketing gimmick to get users to pay extra for Platinum or Titanium PSU they don't need.


64K said:


> A lexus can get you around the same as a Corolla can. But you don't need a Lexus to get you around. That's the point.


That is part of it. But the main reason to get a Platinum or Titanium is because they are more efficient - but only by a tiny bit. So my point, which is the same point Johnny Guru was making, is the savings in energy due to the slightly better efficiency does NOT make up for the higher cost of the Platinum over the Gold.


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## Ferrum Master (Nov 10, 2019)

killster1 said:


> old is not recommended by him for that size psu?..



Well you can... but it would end up damn loud. Well all want almost semi passive modes... so from marketing point not to get burned for making a jet engine like product it must have high efficiency. The other thing for it, high efficiency need less dissipation area for heat sinks, so it can be smaller and lighter. it all goes hand in hand, so the super high efficiency makes sense in really small form factors where airflow also usually lacks.


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## phanbuey (Nov 10, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> How are your going to prevent the card from getting power through the PCIe slot?



That's your reasoning for "I only run a second PSU for hard drives and fans", and "It's not possible to use a second PSU for the GFX"? 

The PCI-E power is part of the mobo power budget, not the GFX.  That question was "is it possible to use a separate supply for the GFX" the answer is yes.  
Obviously you will still need to install the GPU in your motherboard...


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 10, 2019)

phanbuey said:


> That's your reasoning for "I only run a second PSU for hard drives and fans", and "It's not possible to use a second PSU for the GFX"?


I DID NOT SAY EITHER ONE OF THOSE THINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do NOT misquote people. That's not cool and frankly, deceitful and dishonest! If you want to quote someone, use the quote feature. Do NOT change their words to something they NEVER said!


phanbuey said:


> That question was "is it possible to use a separate supply for the GFX"


And that was NOT delshay's question. So again you are being dishonest by misquoting him now! 


delshay said:


> QUESTION: Has anyone powered their GPU or CPU on a separate PSU from motherboard?


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 10, 2019)

delshay said:


> What is the price of this PSU & where to buy.
> 
> & is it Titanium, Platinium, ect, ect.
> 
> ...



Looks like on sale for under 500 bucks.








						FSP CANNON 2000W ATX 12V & EPS 12V Fully Modular Power Supply with 18 Sets of PCI-E 6+2 Pins at Efficiency greater than 92% Blockchain Mining PSU (CANNON 2000) - Newegg.com
					

Buy FSP CANNON 2000W ATX 12V & EPS 12V Fully Modular Power Supply with 18 Sets of PCI-E 6+2 Pins at Efficiency greater than 92% Blockchain Mining PSU (CANNON 2000) with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				





Efficiency92% @ typical load


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## killster1 (Nov 10, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> How are your going to prevent the card from getting power through the PCIe slot?
> You added "and parts". Not me.
> 
> I said, "fancier features" like "braided cables" and "value added" features - like adapter brackets to mount the SFX PSU in a standard ATX case. Why should we have to pay extra for a Platinum or Titanium PSU just to get an included bracket? Why can't they include that bracket in all their SFX PSU instead of forcing buyers to pay $6 extra (plus shipping)?
> ...


wow i dont think you know how quotes work.. i clearly put the end quote before my *parenthesis. *And you didnt say anything about how the 750w could not be rated gold because it would be out of spec. so of course they use better parts. its not a marketing gimmick its  a fact platinum is a better psu, the added value is so people can help justify the extra cost  because their brains all work different. Im not a cheapskate tho when it comes to things that last almost forever. maybe you missed the part when he said "*the 750w could not be made if rated gold*" ((like ferrum says with out it sounding like a jet engine)) whats that mean to you?  because most people are cheap but spend 20$ at mcgarbage everyday yet wont spend 100 on their psu boggles my mind 

Cant run gpu on diff psu? lulz
temps at my houses can get to near 50c especially inside my pc case
64k Im 100% sure a lexus has better parts then a corola they dont use exactly same parts and switch the emblem haha



Bill_Bright said:


> I DID NOT SAY EITHER ONE OF THOSE THINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do NOT misquote people. That's not cool and frankly, dishonest! If you want to quote someone, use the quote feature. Do NOT change their words to something they NEVER said!
> 
> And that was NOT delshay's question. So again you are being dishonest by misquoting him now!


So passionate, you can interpret things many different ways, i think we all know you can run a gpu on a diff psu since its been done 1000x before in the past and there is always a exception to everything. they didnt say "solely through separate psu"


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## phanbuey (Nov 10, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Since both the GPU and CPU get their power (or at least some of it for some GPUs) through the motherboard, *it is not possible to power them with a 2nd PSU*. But I have used 2 PSUs before, *the second to power drives and fans*. But this is not recommended because no two PSUs provide the exact same output voltages and avoiding any "differences in potentials" and differences in grounds, and grounding to Earth ground is essential and challenging.






Bill_Bright said:


> I DID NOT SAY EITHER ONE OF THOSE THINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do NOT misquote people. That's not cool and frankly, dishonest! If you want to quote someone, use the quote feature. Do NOT change their words to something they NEVER said!
> 
> And that was NOT delshay's question. So again you are being dishonest by misquoting him now!



That's so different from what you're leading people to believe... my apologies for the 'misquote'.

Keep spreading misinformation though, that's totally honest and cool.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 10, 2019)

I do know how quotes work. I said, you added it.


phanbuey said:


> That's so different from what you're leading people to believe...


I'm not leading anyone to believe anything. The PCIe slot provides up to 75W of power to the card. That is just a fact.

Edit comment: added "up to".


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 10, 2019)

> QUESTION: Has anyone powered their GPU or CPU on a separate PSU from motherboard?



Totally possible.

You can run 2 PSUs one for cpu and one for gpu. It is possible.  

The last time I had run 2 PSUs, the secondary switching PSU came with the 24 pin extension cable, both PSUs plugged into the motherboard to be switched on and off at the same time. 
That was a pretty long time ago, I don't remember the name of the PSU lol.


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## 64K (Nov 10, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> I do know how quotes work. I said, you added it.
> 
> I'm not leading anyone to believe anything. The PCIe slot provides 75W of power to the card. That is just a fact.



That's what I know too but sometimes oddball things happen like the R9 295X2 that had two 8 pin power connectors for 300 watts plus the PCIe slot for 75 watts more but it drew 500 watts in peak gaming and 646 watts running Furmark.



















						AMD Radeon R9 295X2 8 GB Review
					

Today, AMD is launching their Radeon R9 295X2, a dual-GPU card based on two fully unlocked, fully clocked Hawaii graphics processors. As a result, the card delivers impressive numbers in 4K and EyeFinity. But with a price of $1500, it is certainly not cheap, no matter how you look at it.




					www.techpowerup.com


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## delshay (Nov 10, 2019)

Being an hardware modder you can disconnect the 12v PCI-e on the GFX card & completely run a GFX card isolated on it's own PSU. Not really my cup of tea to do this, as I can't see much of a gain (if any) in going beyond the original 75w limit.


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## GamerGuy (Nov 10, 2019)

HONK, HONK! All three PSU's in my rigs are overkill. I have a Corsair HX1000 Plat, a Seasonic X1250 and an Enermax MAX REVO 1500W. Good vid btw, always trusted JonnyGuru PSU reviews back when he was doing reviews. I had gotten a SilverStone 1000W PSU for my main rig years back after reading his review when he compared it to the PC Power and Coolong 1000W unit, I think these were the only two 1000 watters back then.


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 10, 2019)

GamerGuy said:


> HONK, HONK! All three PSU's in my rigs are overkill. I have a Corsair HX1000 Plat, a Seasonic X1250 and an Enermax MAX REVO 1500W. Good vid btw, always trusted JonnyGuru PSU reviews back when he was doing reviews. I had gotten a SilverStone 1000W PSU for my main rig years back after reading his review when he compared it to the PC Power and Coolong 1000W unit, I think these were the only two 1000 watters back then.



Gosh I wish some of you guys where on my overclocking team lol. 
I remember that SilverStone 1000w. I went with the Antec 1000w instead. Still going strong, use if for benching 

HONK!!


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## delshay (Nov 10, 2019)

GamerGuy said:


> HONK, HONK! All three PSU's in my rigs are overkill. I have a Corsair HX1000 Plat, a Seasonic X1250 and an Enermax MAX REVO 1500W. Good vid btw, always trusted JonnyGuru PSU reviews back when he was doing reviews. I had gotten a SilverStone 1000W PSU for my main rig years back after reading his review when he compared it to the PC Power and Coolong 1000W unit, I think these were the only two 1000 watters back then.



That's what I like, plenty of power.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 10, 2019)

delshay said:


> Being an hardware modder you can disconnect the 12v PCI-e on the GFX card


Without a circuit diagram of the card, I would not count on the card still working if you start cutting circuit traces on the card. You are assuming the 12V from the slot and the 12V from the PSU connector(s) are strapped from the beginning and cutting the power from the slot would not remove required 12V from any of the components on the card. Without seeing a circuit diagram to see how power from all the sources is distributed to all the components on that _specific_ graphics card, I would not recommend cutting through circuit board runs. As that, for sure, would void any warranty too.


64K said:


> but it drew 500 watts in peak gaming and 646 watts running Furmark.


But that is not telling us through which power connection. I said earlier in post #23 "up to 75W through the PCIe slot". I left out the "up to" in later posts. My bad. Sorry if that caused confusion.


GamerGuy said:


> always trusted JonnyGuru PSU back when he was doing reviews.


I did too. While I am sure he is doing good for Corsair, and certainly he is doing good for his financial future, if he continued doing reviews, they would always have "the appearance" of being tainted and biased. So he had no choice but to stop doing them. And frankly, I would be surprised if that was not a condition of his employment.


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## GamerGuy (Nov 10, 2019)

delshay said:


> That's what I like, plenty of power.


Here's the kicker, I still have a spare PSU, and it's a older gen Corsair HX1050.....sitting pretty in its box.


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## Dinnercore (Nov 10, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> This is probably one of THE best videos I've seen yet. Thank you for sharing this.
> 
> Loved it.
> 
> Honk if your PSU is over-kill!! lol.



I´ll honk three times, two times for both my EVGA 1600W T2s (daily build + secondary build) and the 850W RMi on my OC-bench that is falling asleep during the 2D-benchmarks 

EDIT: Judging by the many honks in here, do all TPU-Users have a PSU-hoarding/oversizing problem?


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## Zach_01 (Nov 10, 2019)

killster1 said:


> my fav quote.. "we could only do 750w if it was platinum if we did gold it would run to hot." So it sure sounds like gold is not recommended by him for that size psu?..


By size you mean physical size or wattage size? Because that unit is a special small size (=high density components) so the extra heat of the lesser efficiency, would be adding dificulty to be taken away and out of it from such a small physical size PSU, with smaller heatsinks/fan/internal space...
When a PC draws lets say 500W from a Platinum PSU (93%eff) the total wall draw is 538W (538 - 7% = 500), so the unit has to deal with 38W of heat.
When a PC draws lets say 500W from a --Gold-- PSU (90%eff) the total wall draw is 556W (556 - 10% = 500), so the unit has to deal with 56W of heat.
38W + 47% = 56W

So the Gold one has to dissipate 47% more heat than the Platinum one. When things get too dense and have a stricted space, and lower air flow (smaller fan) 18W (added to 38) can make a difference. You can get the fan to spin to compensate and get louder, or leave the heat behind to start soaking inside... raise the internal's temps and lead to loose more efficiency which will add a little more heat and eventually get louder anyway...

So.. they made a small form factor high power output and quiet PSU and they want it to stay operating like this... (thus the Platinum efficiency)

EDIT: typo


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 10, 2019)

Dinnercore said:


> I´ll honk three times, two times for both my EVGA 1600W T2s (daily build + secondary build) and the 850W RMi on my OC-bench that is falling asleep during the 2D-benchmarks
> 
> EDIT: Judging by the many honks in here, do all TPU-Users have a PSU-hoarding/oversizing problem?



Dang, I wish my microwave was 1600w... lol. 

Watcha benchin'?


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## Dinnercore (Nov 10, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Dang, I wish my microwave was 1600w... lol.
> 
> Watcha benchin'?


Actually my microwave is just 800W, so it´s less than my PC-PSUs...

I´m having some fun with Socket 775, 1366 and 1155. Just right now I´m testing my delidded X5650. For the 775 stuff a 350W PSU would be fine, it´s the socket 1366 CPUs that can pull some power but still I did not yet see anything above 350W during CPU benchmarks. (on ambient cooling. LN2/Dice would be a whole different story)


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## killster1 (Nov 10, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> By size you mean physical size or wattage size? Because that unit is a special small size (=high density components) so the extra heat of the lesser efficiency, would be adding dificulty to be taken away and out of it from such a small physical size PSU, with smaller heatsinks/fan/internal space...
> When a PC draws lets say 500W from a Platinum PSU (93%eff) the total wall draw is 538W (538 - 7% = 500), so the unit has to deal with 38W of heat.
> When a PC draws lets say 500W from a --Gold-- PSU (90%eff) the total wall draw is 556W (556 - 10% = 500), so the unit has to deal with 56W of heat.
> 38W + 47% = 56W
> ...


oh thought it was obvious i ment the dimensions but again you can always take things two diff ways or be excited about things diff ways, long post for the exact thing we all knew already. (that the plat has better parts / design haaaaaaa) (not sure why bill bright so excited about yoru post so excited about how gold is the max anyone should get  )


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## Zach_01 (Nov 10, 2019)

killster1 said:


> oh thought it was obvious i ment the dimensions but again you can always take things two diff ways or be excited about things diff ways, long post for the exact thing we all knew already. (that the plat has better parts / design haaaaaaa) (not sure why bill bright so excited about yoru post so excited about how gold is the max anyone should get  )


Sorry, but I like to be exact to avoid misunderstandings and such type of things... Obviousness and taking things for granted can easily lead to unpleasant conversations. We are here people/PC users from all over the world with alot foreign languages and we simply cant know/remember what is the level of knowlege of every individual in here.

Take a look around how many times fights started upon a simple word... I "hate" that.
So I didnt understand... "obviously" and eventually the point of your comment to the "Guru's" statement about the size/eff/power for that small factor PSU...


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 10, 2019)

killster1 said:


> not sure why bill bright so excited about yoru post so excited about how gold is the max anyone should get


And I don't understand why you and a few others think it is proper to misrepresent what others say. It really is deceitful and disrespectful to the site and everyone reading. Are you not capable of just debating the facts without misquoting or interjecting personal criticisms? 

Liking a post does not mean someone is "so excited" about it. If that is true, then I guess you are "so excited" about my post #41 above. 

I liked Zach_01's post because he was exactly right. It was because that particular 750W PSU you were referring too is a SFX PSU and just like a laptop case, the smaller size of the SFX PSU case puts greater demands on cooling. Since most PCs are not SFX and don't use SFX PSUs, that example you put forward hardly sets the rule. And that was what Zach clearly demonstrated. 

FTR, I NEVER EVER said Gold is the max anyone should get. I did said I recommend no higher than Gold. Did you note where JohnnyGuru even said higher is not worth the cost? A simple search of this site would even show where I have said, if you can find a good deal, go for the higher certified PSUs.



Zach_01 said:


> Sorry, but I like to be exact to avoid misunderstandings and such type of things..


This is a technical discussion in a technical forum. Being exact to avoid misunderstandings is a quality trait. Nothing to apologize for, IMO.


----------



## Dinnercore (Nov 10, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Did you note where JohnnyGuru even said higher is not worth the cost? A simple search of this site would even show where I have said, if you can find a good deal, go for the higher certified PSUs.


For you people over there in the magic wonderland of free energy it is not cost effective, but over here we march straight towards 0,40€ per kWh (~0,44$). If this trend continues the additional cost might pay off in a couple of years 
Running my PC currently costs me 325€ per year (9 hours average per day), due to regular rendering workloads. A 5% efficiency increase (Gold to Titanium) would save me ~15€ per year. I typically use my PSUs for 5 years+ that adds up to 75€+ difference. Okay Gold - Titanium is not a straight 5% benefit, but still I´m already dead even when it comes to cost effectiveness of Gold vs Titanium.
EDIT: Thinking about it, I´m far from profiting of my Titanium rating tho. Since I don´t run in the peak efficiency range due to oversized PSU.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Nov 10, 2019)

It may sound like it is worth it, but not likely - even at 9 hours per day, 365 days a year - and how realistic is that really? 

And don't forget, it is very rare for both the CPU and GPU (not to mention RAM, motherboard, fans and drives) to demand maximum power at the same time for any length of time. It would still take many years to make up the difference. It's 4% difference, BTW from Gold to Titanium  at 50% load. At a steady 200 watt load, that would be just 8 watts, barely more than a night light. 

Using this calculator, that's less than $60 over 5 years at $.44 per kWh and 9 hours per day. 

Just using Corsair as an example, the AX850 Titanium cost $229 and the RMx850x Gold cost $129 as seen here. That would take 8-9 years to make up the difference - that is, just to break even.

But of course, there are always exceptions and you might very be that one. But exceptions don't make the rule.


----------



## killster1 (Nov 10, 2019)

Dinnercore said:


> For you people over there in the magic wonderland of free energy it is not cost effective, but over here we march straight towards 0,40€ per kWh (~0,44$). If this trend continues the additional cost might pay off in a couple of years
> Running my PC currently costs me 325€ per year (9 hours average per day), due to regular rendering workloads. A 5% efficiency increase (Gold to Titanium) would save me ~15€ per year. I typically use my PSUs for 5 years+ that adds up to 75€+ difference. Okay Gold - Titanium is not a straight 5% benefit, but still I´m already dead even when it comes to cost effectiveness of Gold vs Titanium.


yes i pay a similar rate for electricity depending on the month of the year, also you pay more for cooling your house as well. we all pay different amounts i pay more than .44$ per kwh pretty sure it was .47 depending on my usage. My opinion is yes very excited


----------



## R-T-B (Nov 10, 2019)

My PSU is overkill.  Don't care, when you get it for free from your bro as payment for helping part out his computer, the cost to benefit ratio automatically approaches infinity.

As for PSU efficiency ratings:  I buy up above what I need in all cases not for economy reasons, but to minimize heat.

For wattage, opposite.  I buy very conservatively, usually.


----------



## Dinnercore (Nov 10, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> It may sound like it is worth it, but not likely - even at 9 hours per day, 365 days a year - and how realistic is that really?
> 
> And don't forget, it is very rare for both the CPU and GPU (not to mention RAM, motherboard, fans and drives) to demand maximum power at the same time for any length of time. It would still take many years to make up the difference. It's 4% difference, BTW from Gold to Titanium at 50% load. At a steady 200 watt load, that would be just 8 watts, barely more than a night light.


For me that is reality, I build my system in July 2018 and by now it has 4396 hours on the clock. My 1950x on CPU rendering and the Vega for GPU rendering eat a lot of power.

You are right it´s just about to break even. I was more projecting into the future. And if we talk about cost efficiency, my enthusiast oriented build is absolutly horrible. My case might be the exception where a proper sized PSU would profit from a rating above Gold but I went overkill and thus never reach peak efficiency.


----------



## Mr.Scott (Nov 10, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> While I am sure he is doing good for Corsair, and certainly he is doing good for his financial future, if he continued doing reviews, they would always have "the appearance" of being tainted and biased. So he had no choice but to stop doing them. And frankly, I would be surprised if that was not a condition of his employment.


You speculate on all of this. You really have no idea what his situation was/is.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Nov 10, 2019)

Dinnercore said:


> For me that is reality, I build my system in July 2018 and by now it has 4396 hours on the clock. My 1950x on CPU rendering and the Vega for GPU rendering eat a lot of power.


If me, I would keep that system on the floor by my feet to keep my toes warm this winter! 


Dinnercore said:


> but I went overkill and thus never reach peak efficiency.


Well, that's another argument for properly sizing a PSU rather than going with an overkill size. It is easy to look at the 80-PLUS website and see where that 50% load is the most efficient for every certification level. If you buy bigger than you need and go with an overkill size, you can lose up to 4% as you approach 20% loads.

So not only does the 1000W cost more to begin with, it costs more to run compared to properly sized PSU. 


Mr.Scott said:


> You speculate on all of this. You really have no idea what his situation was/is.


Wow. You made two posts in this thread and both are just to criticize another poster. Do you have anything to contribute for the OP? You criticized me in your first post but have yet to tell us what new things you learned from that video. 

And no I did not speculate on all of that. He works for Corsair. Therefore there would be "the appearance" of any review being tainted and biased. That does not mean they would be tainted and biased. As for any condition of his employment, that clearly was me expressing an opinion, not a statement of fact.


----------



## thesmokingman (Nov 10, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Since both the GPU and CPU get their power (or at least some of it for some GPUs) through the motherboard, it is not possible to power them with a 2nd PSU. But I have used 2 PSUs before, the second to power drives and fans. But this is not recommended because no two PSUs provide the exact same output voltages and avoiding any "differences in potentials" and differences in grounds, and grounding to Earth ground is essential and challenging.



A lotta WRONG in this post. I and a score of others have run multi psus in the past benching and doing who knows what with our quad gpus for years. And YES, you can run gpus off secondary psu, otherwise how the heck would one supply enough power for 4 gpus each drawing in excess of 300w!



thesmokingman said:


> Back in the day 7970s could draw more than 300w each, lol.
> 
> Off one psu.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Nov 10, 2019)

thesmokingman said:


> And YES, you can run gpus off secondary psu, otherwise how the heck would one supply enough power for 4 gpus each drawing in excess of 300w!


Ummm, through the supplementary power cables. And note the question was about running the CPU through a 2nd PSU too.


----------



## thesmokingman (Nov 10, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Ummm, through the supplementary power cables. And note the OP was asking about running the CPU through a 2nd PSU too.



When yer wrong... do you just keep digging?


----------



## Bill_Bright (Nov 10, 2019)

Not when shown to be wrong. The question was indeed about the CPU too. Keeping the posters question in mind, are you seriously going to say you powered your CPU with a 2nd PSU?

But for the benefit of the doubt with graphics cards, maybe I don't understand what you mean. I am saying the PCIe slot still provides 75W from the primary PSU even if you connect the card's  aux power connectors to a secondary PSU. Are you saying that is not true?


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Nov 10, 2019)

> QUESTION: Has anyone powered their GPU or CPU on a separate PSU from motherboard?



For those reading, This was the original question.
It was a yes or no question. = Yes.

I strike through the BS at the end. The PCI-E power connectors come from a PSU, not the board. 

See simple. Now it doesn't matter a GPU can use 75w from a board. That would only matter if your gaming GPU doesn't have PCI-E power connectors. 

Bill_Bright, you can leave a honk though. That 550w gold is way overkill for i5 6600 and 1050ti listed in your specs.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Nov 10, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> I strike through the BS at the end. The PCI-E power connectors come from a PSU, not the board.


This is true. But the PCIe slots still provide 75W and that is fed through the board to the slot from the primary PSU.


ShrimpBrime said:


> See simple. Now it doesn't matter a GPU can use 75w from a board.


Sure it matters. You can't simply turn that 75W feed off.


ShrimpBrime said:


> That would only matter if your gaming GPU doesn't have PCI-E power connectors.


Not true. Those power connectors provide additional power to the card. They do not replace the power from the slot.


----------



## killster1 (Nov 10, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> This is true. But the PCIe slots still provide 75W and that is fed through the board to the slot from the primary PSU.
> Sure it matters. You can't simply turn that 75W feed off.
> 
> Not true. Those power connectors provide additional power to the card. They do not replace the power from the slot.


the question doesn't say ONLY from the additional psu, of course the sockets draw some power, you just sound so silly to me, you cant stop even tho we all know you can power it from secondary psu you are trying to argue some technicality that it doesn't only power from second psu. So what if they said cpu also you are definitely wrong giving out misleading info and of course wont admit it. So its not turned into some weird thread of arguments.


----------



## phill (Nov 10, 2019)

I'll honk a little...  Some PSUs I have/had....

That's a few I have laying about at home the moment, I've got some hiding away I'm sure or in systems..   Most where bought in sales and I don't regret buying any of them really 

That said, I did wish to try and grab a 2000w model just because really...  Sadly, just too expensive and the 1600w I have will more than likely be put to good use of powering a 3950X or even an overclocked Threadripper or even a 10980XE..  I'd like too much hardware, that's my problem.....


----------



## Bill_Bright (Nov 10, 2019)

killster1 said:


> of course the sockets draw some power
> 
> you are trying to argue some technicality


YES!  I am trying to make sure the information provided is technically correct. You have not done that - until just now when you FINALLY admit, "of course the sockets draw some power". So thank you for FINALLY coming around to the facts.


----------



## Jetster (Nov 10, 2019)

All I will say is, it's a good intro to power supply's video. And I *don't* have a degree in electrical engineering. I'm just a systems builder that reads reviews. I've always like Corsair and Jonnyguru


----------



## phanbuey (Nov 10, 2019)

killster1 said:


> the question doesn't say ONLY from the additional psu, of course the sockets draw some power, you just sound so silly to me, you cant stop even tho we all know you can power it from secondary psu you are trying to argue some technicality that it doesn't only power from second psu. So what if they said cpu also you are definitely wrong giving out misleading info and of course wont admit it. So its not turned into some weird thread of arguments.



I'm pretty sure here's how this works:  Whenever an question is so broad and general that the correct answer is 75% yes and 25% no; such as this, the correct answer is:
"You CAN use separate PSUs for the Video Card and the 8 pin for the CPU where those PSUs will supply the majority of the power to those components, but the motherboard is also a conduit that supplies a small % of power to these components so the original PSU is always involved."

Bill, who actually knows what he's talking about (and I mean that as a compliment), will generally say NO and then spend the rest of the time defending that 25% No answer with a technicality while multiple forum members argue with him.  Then the new user that asked the original question wanders back into the open world thinking you cannot possibly run components on different PSUs as a general rule.


----------



## delshay (Nov 10, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> This is true. But the PCIe slots still provide 75W and that is fed through the board to the slot from the primary PSU.
> Sure it matters. You can't simply turn that 75W feed off.
> 
> Not true. Those power connectors provide additional power to the card. They do not replace the power from the slot.



Like I said, If you want to disconnect 12v PCI-e you can do it in two ways on the card itself.

1. Most cards will have a fuse, just remove this.

2. If you can't find the fuse, look for the inductor.

You don't need PDF Doc on the card to find any of the above, just a meter & disconnect one of the leg/contact & feed in your own 12v supply.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Nov 11, 2019)

delshay said:


> 1. Most cards will have a fuse, just remove this.


Not even. A few do, but most? Not even close. And a fuse is going to open the circuit and stop the current flow from the slot only? Yeah right.



delshay said:


> 2. If you can't find the fuse, look for the inductor.


LOL That's funny.

I really think it is time to get back to the topic, and that is the video.


----------



## thesmokingman (Nov 11, 2019)

phanbuey said:


> Bill, who actually knows what he's talking about (and I mean that as a compliment), will generally say NO and then spend the rest of the time defending that 25% No answer with a technicality while multiple forum members argue with him.  Then the new user that asked the original question wanders back into the open world thinking you cannot possibly run components on different PSUs as a general rule.



But he's dead wrong on all counts. Anybody could have googled for this info.


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Nov 11, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> This is true. But the PCIe slots still provide 75W and that is fed through the board to the slot from the primary PSU.
> Sure it matters. You can't simply turn that 75W feed off.
> 
> Not true. Those power connectors provide additional power to the card. They do not replace the power from the slot.



No that slot is not primary power on VGA cards that utilize PCI-E power connectors. The slot cannot carry the current for large gaming GPUs.

The slot will likely power the VRAM and switching signal to turn the card on and off. 

I agree both need to be there to run the GPU. 
Do not agree that it was actually part of the question which also included CPU power off a second PSU, but everyone failed to touch base on that which the answer is still yes. Obviously the socket supplies some power to the CPU, but the 4/8 pin cpu power connector is also the primary source unless the connector isn't needed or exist on that board.

Either way, don't forget to Honk Bill. You over-kill PSU user you


----------



## Mr.Scott (Nov 11, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> This is true. But the PCIe slots still provide 75W and that is fed through the board to the slot from the primary PSU.
> Sure it matters. You can't simply turn that 75W feed off.



Not completely true. There are motherboards with the capability to completely turn off PCIe slots.


----------



## delshay (Nov 11, 2019)

thesmokingman said:


> But he's dead wrong on all counts. Anybody could have googled for this info.



I have seen these device on Ebay, now why did I not buy one. I think I will now get one now.


----------



## R-T-B (Nov 11, 2019)

Mr.Scott said:


> Not completely true. There are motherboards with the capability to completely turn off PCIe slots.



Also, since we love semantics so much, the wattage was way less with PCI-E 1.0.

Lets just talk about psus and drop this.  It's getting old to me, we're really splitting hairs and if you insist on doing that, I can find exceptions for every vague claim and drive you all mad.  Don't test me, masterjedi!


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 11, 2019)

I love my new PSU, EVGA 700 GD, new model that is 80 gold. was only $45 after rebate. it's handling my 1080 ti and ryzen 3600 easily enough with oc's on both. 0 issues so far and the fan is quiet even though it runs 24.7 I prefer a fan that runs 24.7 personally, just to be on safe side.


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## phanbuey (Nov 11, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> I love my new PSU, EVGA 700 GD, new model that is 80 gold. was only $45 after rebate. it's handling my 1080 ti and ryzen 3600 easily enough with oc's on both. 0 issues so far and the fan is quiet even though it runs 24.7 I prefer a fan that runs 24.7 personally, just to be on safe side.



I actually don't know if my fan in the SF750 works or not... I've yet to see or hear it spin.  It could be completely dead in there for all i know.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 11, 2019)

phanbuey said:


> I actually don't know if my fan in the SF750 works or not... I've yet to see or hear it spin.  It could be completely dead in there for all i know.



yep that is one reason I never wanted one of those types, scared me to much. lol


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Nov 11, 2019)

Upgraded the fan on my 1000w and direct current bypassed PWM. 
It has been used where the Cpu (FX) was pumped over 2.0v so never want to think about letting get warm. 

Most PSUs that have silent fan configs are pretty neat. Some video cards are the same way. 
If you're over spec for PSU, the silent fan models may never spin up because you aren't reaching any serious loads. Which is actually a good thing. 

Honk if your fans don't spin lol.


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## delshay (Nov 11, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Upgraded the fan on my 1000w and direct current bypassed PWM.
> It has been used where the Cpu (FX) was pumped over 2.0v so never want to think about letting get warm.
> 
> Most PSUs that have silent fan configs are pretty neat. Some video cards are the same way.
> ...



My PSU fan only spins in the very hot summer months, very low speed. So I guess it has no defence whatsoever against ambient temperature.


----------



## INSTG8R (Nov 11, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> This is probably one of THE best videos I've seen yet. Thank you for sharing this.
> 
> Loved it.
> 
> Honk if your PSU is over-kill!! lol.


1050 which was a downgrade from 1200W


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 11, 2019)

delshay said:


> My PSU fan only spins in the very hot summer months, very low speed. So I guess it has no defence whatsoever against ambient temperature.


Hot summer months are no fun. If you room has a window, slap in a window A/C to combat those high temps! 


INSTG8R said:


> 1050 which was a downgrade from 1200W



Honk Honk! 
Seasonic X powers Hungry 4790K! Yes indeed.


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## R-T-B (Nov 11, 2019)

delshay said:


> My PSU fan only spins in the very hot summer months, very low speed. So I guess it has no defence whatsoever against ambient temperature.



Nothing does.  You can never cool below ambient without some kind of active cooling, you can only dissapate heat above it away with heatsinks combined with airflow.


----------



## INSTG8R (Nov 11, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Hot summer months are no fun. If you room has a window, slap in a window A/C to combat those high temps!
> 
> 
> Honk Honk!
> Seasonic X powers Hungry 4790K! Yes indeed.


And high power limit Vega pushing 310W+  I don‘t care about anything but thermals electricity is cheap


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 11, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> This is probably one of THE best videos I've seen yet. Thank you for sharing this.
> 
> Loved it.
> 
> Honk if your PSU is over-kill!! lol.


Honk!

I have an 1100w PSU in a system that barely needs 500W under max load. However, there is something to be said about buying a high-quality PSU that has much more wattage than you'll ever need. You'll never stress the PSU, it's efficiency will be better long term and because it's not being over-stressed, it'll last longer.


64K said:


> A lexus can get you around the same as a Corolla can. But you don't need a Lexus to get you around. That's the point. A quality Bronze Rated unit is just as good as a Titanium Rated unit in that regards. Most people will do a new build before their PSU has even a chance to die anyway.


This is true to a point. Car engines are a very different kind of beast. A V8 will use between 70% to 120% more fuel at idle than an S4, depending on the make and model compared. PSU's do not work the same way at all. They only output what is required of them at any one time. The higher the quality and capacity, the more efficient a PSU is at lower loads. For example; a 1000w Platinum PSU will actually waste less power under idle power draw than a 500w Bronze PSU in an identical system.


----------



## 64K (Nov 11, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Honk!
> 
> I have an 1100w PSU in a system that barely needs 500W under max load. However, there is something to be said about buying a high-quality PSU that has much more wattage than you'll every need. You'll never stress the PSU, it's efficiency will be better long term and because it's not being over-stressed, it'll last longer.
> 
> This is true to a point. Car engines are a very different kind of beast. A V8 will use between 70% to 120% more fuel at idle than an S4, depending on the make and model compared. PSU's do not work the same way at all. They only output what is required of them at any one time. The higher the quality and capacity, the more efficient a PSU is at lower loads. For example; a 1000w Platinum PSU will actually waste less power under idle power draw than a 500w Bronze PSU in an identical system.



Why don't you show your specs? Just curious why.


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 11, 2019)

64K said:


> Why don't you show your specs? Just curious why.


Mostly because I have 7 different PC's in my home and there's not room in the specs section for each. That and enough changes happen to them all often enough that it would become a delivered effort to update. So I choose not to list anything at all.


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## EarthDog (Nov 11, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> For example; a 1000w Platinum PSU will actually waste less power under idle power draw than a 500w Bronze PSU in an identical system.


Maybe... depends on the ramp up, honestly. Since both start at 20% of load to measure their efficiency requirements. If you idle at 70W, that is 7% of a 1KW PSU. That same 70W idle on 500W psu is is 14% load. Since 80 plus measures at 20%, we dont really know what EXACTLY the difference is efficiency wise. I would imagine the higher wattage will still be more efficient, but not by much at all considering how little the load is comparatively. Look at TPU reviews of psus and see how that efficiency ramps up quite steep compared to the flat curve once you hit  over 10% or so. Obviously Titanium takes that to another level and requires 90% efficiency at 10%, but you mentioned platinum.

But I'd be careful as we dont really know... besides a 1KW psu costs like 3x as much as a 500W model so I'm not really sure of the point here. So what if you save a few dollars a year running it 24/7 under load... the cost is never close to being made up. TCO!

As I said earlier, I'd happily grab a more appropriately sized psu, so for your example 700W, and save the extra $75-100 for something else. The minutia some of you worry about really only affects the wallet more so than the 'reasons' many bring up.


----------



## phill (Nov 11, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Maybe... depends on the ramp up, honestly. Since both start at 20% of load to measure their efficiency requirements. If you idle at 70W, that is 7% of a 1KW PSU. That same 70W idle on 500W psu is is 14% load. Since 80 plus measures at 20%, we dont really know what EXACTLY the difference is efficiency wise. I would imagine the higher wattage will still be more efficient, but not by much at all considering how little the load is comparatively. Look at TPU reviews of psus and see how that efficiency ramps up quite steep compared to the flat curve once you hit  over 10% or so. Obviously Titanium takes that to another level and requires 90% efficiency at 10%, but you mentioned platinum.
> 
> But I'd be careful as we dont really know... besides a 1KW psu costs like 3x as much as a 500W model so I'm not really sure of the point here. So what if you save a few dollars a year running it 24/7 under load... the cost is never close to being made up. TCO!
> 
> As I said earlier, I'd happily grab a more appropriately sized psu, so for your example 700W, and save the extra $75-100 for something else. The minutia some of you worry about really only affects the wallet more so than the 'reasons' many bring up.



What about when you get offers?  Would you ever consider getting something slightly more then?  The prices I've had some of the PSUs for in the past have been an absolute steal


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 11, 2019)

phill said:


> What about when you get offers?  Would you ever consider getting something slightly more then?  The prices I've had some of the PSUs for in the past have been an absolute steal


If you are talking an appropriately sized unit, say 750W, of gold efficiency versus a 1KW gold, if it was the same price, why not? You just lose efficiency at idle with a negligible difference on load (assuming ~500w). If there was any additional cost (even $10-$20) then no. There just is no point to spend more for no returns. Now, surely every member here can think of a reason to do it (upgrades, etc) but a quality 700-750W unit will handle any single GPU and any cpu (up to hedt) overclocked  with both ambiently cooled. If dual gpus are in your future (I first ask why...) then you size it up. But realistically, most wont ever go there (and with good reason).


----------



## 1000t (Nov 11, 2019)

Actually, when I was building my new system, I made for myself a little spreadsheet to calculate cost associated with a PSU over its lifetime. Just last week I decided to put it to google docs and make it public. Unfortunately, I was not able to secure it sufficiently, so here is at least a read-only version:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_aqXJmx4Ipuqh_sZpqN3OveaYETpk4kYKUEfsdEGCOA/edit?usp=sharing

You can download it and try different values to see for yourself. Just don't count on this link to work in future, because sharing google spreadsheets where you can change some values seems rather unworkable.


----------



## phill (Nov 11, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> If you are talking an appropriately sized unit, say 750W, of gold efficiency versus a 1KW gold, if it was the same price, why not? You just lose efficiency at idle with a negligible difference on load (assuming ~500w). If there was any additional cost (even $10-$20) then no. There just is no point to spend more for no returns. Now, surely every member here can think of a reason to do it (upgrades, etc) but a quality 700-750W unit will handle any single GPU and any cpu (up to hedt) with both ambiently cooled. If dual gpus are in your future (I first ask why...) then you size it up. But realistically, most wont ever go there (and with good reason).



I just wondered as I was able to get some decent 850w units (Gold I believe) for I think £50 or so each, a Platinum model was about £65 for the 850 model also.  It was a while ago now but for the cost of them being top tier units and half the price, I couldn't say no and just bought them   I did go a little crazy and buy a 1600w unit as well, but considering the cost over here was £450 ish for the unit and I paid I think £200, I couldn't say no.  
Obviously there would be a very limiting setup that I could use with it, but with X299 and Threadripper builds I'd love to do, I figured what the heck and I bought one   I think that was a Titanium rated unit as well.

I think when I do need some more units, I think the 650w models would be more than enough (and I don't think I'd go any lower really) since I'd like to use up all of my 480's I have laying about here and then I can use the 1070 and 1080 Ti's as well when I upgrade my main system.


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 11, 2019)

Sounds like you have a hardware hoarding issue...


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## phill (Nov 11, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Sounds like you have a hardware hoarding issue...



Have a look in the projects thread  

Moving on quickly before anything more derails this thread!! 

EDIT - Trying to get this back on track....

Here's a list of 850w units from Scan.co.uk.    Rated from Gold to Titanium....






Now for a few percent extra, I really couldn't consider paying that much more for maybe 4 to 5% better efficiency which I believe is what you say @EarthDog


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 11, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Maybe... depends on the ramp up, honestly. Since both start at 20% of load to measure their efficiency requirements. If you idle at 70W, that is 7% of a 1KW PSU. That same 70W idle on 500W psu is is 14% load. Since 80 plus measures at 20%, we dont really know what EXACTLY the difference is efficiency wise. I would imagine the higher wattage will still be more efficient, but not by much at all considering how little the load is comparatively. Look at TPU reviews of psus and see how that efficiency ramps up quite steep compared to the flat curve once you hit  over 10% or so. Obviously Titanium takes that to another level and requires 90% efficiency at 10%, but you mentioned platinum.
> 
> But I'd be careful as we dont really know... besides a 1KW psu costs like 3x as much as a 500W model so I'm not really sure of the point here. So what if you save a few dollars a year running it 24/7 under load... the cost is never close to being made up. TCO!
> 
> As I said earlier, I'd happily grab a more appropriately sized psu, so for your example 700W, and save the extra $75-100 for something else. The minutia some of you worry about really only affects the wallet more so than the 'reasons' many bring up.


Was only making a generalized example. A 750W for a 500W max load system would still provide excellent results and lots of overhead room. However, sales and deals on 900W-1000W PSU's happen. As a general rule, whenever building a system I take the maximum projected load the parts can require and multiply that number by aprox 2 or 2.5 to determine the PSU wattage to aim for. Using this methodology, system failures due to PSU problems are minimized.


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 11, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> As a general rule, whenever building a system I take the maximum projected load the parts can require and multiply that number by aprox 2 or 2.5 to determine the PSU wattage to aim for. Using this methodology, system failures due to PSU problems are minimized.


That is ridiculous... the amount of money you waste using this method. 

If my system peaks at 450W, you are saying 900W-1.2KW... wow. Even the low end is ridiculous. 

You actually have no idea that running this low of loads helps (tangibly), lets be clear about that. Again, these PSUs are rated to run their nameplate values for the life of their warranty (good ones like we are talking about). When you are running a 750W unit on a 450W load, you are already running it well under what it can output with ample headroom for quiet and system growth.. There isn't a need to add buffer to buffer unless you like seeing your wallet thinner for little to no reason.


----------



## newtekie1 (Nov 11, 2019)

It's sad that his site basically died. I really liked the reviews there.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Nov 11, 2019)

thesmokingman said:


> But he's dead wrong on all counts.


So one very unique, non-standard example, that requires special and separately purchased equipment, makes one wrong on all counts? A piece of equipment, BTW, that does NOT separate CPU power from the PCIe slot power, proves you are right - on all counts?

Okay. You win.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 11, 2019)

I just looked at what a 2080 Ti needs, which is a 650w psu.

In a day and age when parts consume less power than ever before.. 10 years ago yeah, you needed to have a lot of juice, but this isn't 10 years ago. So if a 2080ti pulls around 300w, and a 3900x is taking about 150-175w, throw some spinners in, a couple ssd's, fan's, and disco lights, you should still have enough left over for some overclocks, if its even worth it.. 

Why are we talking about 1000w PSU's like everyone is running X58 again?


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 11, 2019)

freeagent said:


> Why are we talking about 1000w PSU's like everyone is running X58 and dual GPUs again?


Good question... and FTFY...


----------



## freeagent (Nov 11, 2019)

Oops, I did mean dual GPU"s lol, thanks!


----------



## 64K (Nov 11, 2019)

newtekie1 said:


> It's sad that his site basically died. I really liked the reviews there.



It's sad to me too. Oklaholma Wolf left reviewing on jonnyguru:






						Retirement Announcement
					

Hello, folks. After much thought, I have decided that after 400 plus reviews over the last 11 years or so, 2018 will be my last year for reviewing power supplies. I am setting my official end date for my 45th birthday on November 28.    It's been a wild ride, for sure. When I got into this stuff...



					www.jonnyguru.com
				




I think crmaris is still reviewing PSUs and he has the proper equipment to do so.


----------



## phill (Nov 11, 2019)

freeagent said:


> Why are we talking about 1000w PSU's like everyone is running X58 again?



I believe some of us are still running them here  

But isn't it right that the higher the number is better??  Isn't that the first rule of being a bloke??.....


----------



## freeagent (Nov 11, 2019)

phill said:


> I believe some of us are still running them here
> 
> But isn't it right that the higher the number is better??  Isn't that the first rule of being a bloke??.....






I am still running x58 too, and still kicking myself for not getting the 1000w. I have gone through a few 850s with that pig, but I still love her.


----------



## phill (Nov 11, 2019)

freeagent said:


> I am still running x58 too, and still kicking myself for not getting the 1000w. I have gone through a few 850s with that pig, but I still love her.



I went to the 1200w model and don't think that was enough with 3 580's!! lol  I still have them, won't get rid, brilliant systems   Still, definitely paid dividends having the bigger unit then


----------



## thebluebumblebee (Nov 11, 2019)

newtekie1 said:


> It's sad that his site basically died. I really liked the reviews there.


But didn't they change the world of PSU's?  Didn't they make themselves obsolete?


64K said:


> I think crmaris is still reviewing PSUs and he has the proper equipment to do so.


GN has been working with JG to setup a proper PSU testing lab.


----------



## Dinnercore (Nov 11, 2019)

thebluebumblebee said:


> GN has been working with JG to setup a proper PSU testing lab.


I thought about that too, but they haven´t mentioned it in a while. I think they are too busy to do regular PSU reviews and I think GN would want more technical background knowledge before touching that topic.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 12, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> That is ridiculous... the amount of money you waste using this method.


It's not a waste when you factor in system stability over the long term.


EarthDog said:


> If my system peaks at 450W, you are saying 900W-1.2KW... wow. Even the low end is ridiculous.


Context is important here. Again I was making an example. For a system that has a maximum estimated power draw of 300w, a 600-750w PSU would be an excellent choice as it will provide very stable power long term and allow for future upgrades without need for PSU replacement. Long term thinking is key here.


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 12, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> It's not a waste when you factor in system stability over the long term.
> 
> Context is important here. Again I was making an example. For a system that has a maximum estimated power draw of 300w, a 600-750w PSU would be an excellent choice as it will provide very stable power long term and allow for future upgrades without need for PSU replacement. Long term thinking is key here.


Anything more than 650W is a waste of cash (for an overwhelming majority).

Now like I said earlier or in another thread, we can allllllll think of a reason to go otherwise that few do to make it work, but just talking single cpu, single gpu, overclocking both using ambient cooling gives ample headroom for efficiency and quiet. Buying 2x the power for the reasons you listed is just too much IMO. 

The system stability angle is.. I dont even know what that means dude.

The reality is 95% of people can easily use a 600W unit and have it last through multiple systems while still keeping adequate headroom for more drives, leds, 'stability', ambient overclocking, and quiet operations. If you think about sli, or extreme cooling overclocking, likely not. But to simply double+ blows money for no real reason. Too many variables to make that a rule.

If I'm a normal user without sli dreams and run a basic 300W system... no way I'm going over 600w...even that will handle a 9900k and 2080ti or a 3950x and 2080ti, both overclocked, and be 'stable'...

Half of users head explodes when I tell them I run a 4.4ghz 7960x and an overclocked 2080ti on a 750w psu....and the fan doesnt spin up.

Edit: and that psu powered a r9 295x2 and highly overclocked i7 920 prior to going here. Still rock solid stable!!!!


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 12, 2019)

We're once again getting into difference of opinions and experience territory. Let's just agree to disagree here. You do your thing, I'll do mine.


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 12, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> We're once again getting into difference of opinions and experience territory here. Let's just agree to disagree here. You do your thing, I'll do mine.


Sure thing.. I'll do so with just as stable of system and have more money in my pocket. It's funny our experiences are different even though I push things a lot harder than you and on the 'high side' of use models yet still talk people off the ledge. Oh well. 

Love my 750W Evga g2! Best $100 I spent five+ years ago....getting rid of a 1KW unit in the process.


----------



## thebluebumblebee (Nov 12, 2019)

I used to get into these debates about PSU sizing.  It used to matter if a PSU was properly sized so it ran under load in the 50-80% range of its capacity for efficiency's sake .  But the PSU's now have an almost flat efficiency curve and even at < 100 watts they still do fine. The difference in cost between the RM550X and the RM850X is $30.  Whoopty dou. BUT, if money is tight, right sizing the PSU and spending that money on a better GPU results in a better overall gaming experience.

Opinion: If people actually bought the right sized PSU's for their system, which would be around 500 watts, I would think that we'd see lower prices for those sizes due to economy of production and competition.

PSU prices have really changed here in the USA.  For the longest time, I expected to pay (80+ Gold) $0.10 per watt capacity after discounts and rebates for top end brands.  This might be the only place I've seen the effects of the tariffs.


----------



## 64K (Nov 12, 2019)

It's going into nonsense land at this point.


----------



## John Naylor (Nov 12, 2019)

A few comments:

1.  Modular - I don't accept the argument that folks are putting teeny PSUs in ATX builds as a reason to have modular cables.  This one, to my eyes, seems about selling Corsair custom cables.  Unless you are doing custom cables, semi modular where all required cables are hard wired and all optional ones are modular,  usually saves money, has no downside, even a fractional increase in efficiency and lower points of failure.

2.  The "metal" rating *** for the most part relates*** purely to the cost of electricity. Tho to a lesser extent, the higher rating also means better parts which **can**, but not necessarily so, improve voltage stability and ripple.    As for the efficiency discussion, the suggestion that it "always is" or always is not" worthwhile is inane and myopic.  There can be no blanket rule here because this is an issue with no universal answer.  Let's set aside for the moment "Does the extra cost bring with it better voltage regulation ?  Lower Ripple ? "

Power cost is not the same for everybody so the rules can not be universal.  For example, using a 750 watt PSU @ 3/4 load, 30 hours a week high gaming load) over 4 years.

US Average
@ 12 cents / kw-hr going from Bronze to Silver saves ya about $17.50 in electricity
@ 12 cents / kw-hr going from Silver to Gold saves ya about $11.00 in electricity
@ 12 cents / kw-hr going from Gold to Platinum saves ya about $10.50 in electricity
So Buying a 750 watt Focus Plus Platinum, over a Gold would have to cost less than $10.50 more to make it worthwhile

US Major metropolitan Areas
@ 24 cents / kw-hr going from Bronze to Silver saves ya about $21.00 in electricity
@ 24 cents / kw-hr going from Silver to Gold saves ya about $22.00 in electricity
@ 24 cents / kw-hr going from Gold to Platinum saves ya about $35.00 in electricity
So Buying a 750 watt Focus Plus Platinum , over a Gold would have to cost less than $35 more to make it worthwhile:

So let's see how this work out 





						Choose A Power Supply
					






					pcpartpicker.com
				




Seasonic Focus Plus Gold = $119.95
Seasonic Focus Plus Platinum = $116.98

I this case, even if electricity is free, it's $3 cheaper so the Platinum is the proverbial "no-brainer".  Let's try again and look at the 650 watter where the Platinum is $26.01 more than the Gold.   And here's the point I was trying to make:

-Strictly from an efficiency standpoint, for the user paying 12 cents / kw-hr, puchasing the Platinum will not provided a positive ROI.  He / she will spend an extra $26.01 and only get a return of $10.50 ... leaving the user with a loss of $15.51.  Does it have better voltage regulation ?  Does it have lower ripple ?  It certainly produces less heat ?  Does that value offset the $15.51 ?

-Again strictly from an efficiency standpoint, for the user (like me) paying 24 cents / kw-hr, puchasing the Platinum will indeed provided a positive ROI.  I will spend an extra $26.01 and get a return of $35 ... leaving mewith a gain of about $9.  Again, add to that the value of better voltage regulation / lower ripple if it's there ... and the lower heat ? 

So the only correct answer to "is it worthwhile to move up on the energy efficency scale is "It depends".

Kust for kicks , some European Countries
@ 48 cents / kw-hr going from Bronze to Silver saves ya about $42.00 in electricity
@ 48 cents / kw-hr going from Silver to Gold saves ya about $44.00 in electricity
@ 48 cents / kw-hr going from Gold to Platinum saves ya about $70.00 in electricity

If you can buy the upgrade for less than the cost of the power, then it most certainly worth the extra cost

3.  Nice explanation as to why voltage regulation and ripple matter both for component life and overclocking.  Stable / clen power from the pSU lightenms the load on component VRMs

4.  Selecting larger PSU is not only about efficiency and getting to that 50% load peak efficiency.  It's also about silence.  Nice having a PSU where the fan never goes on.

5.  Be aware that when you  "go bigger" if you don't calculate your load correctly, you could wind up on the other side of the peak for a good part of your run time.  But also, "it's not the same. 

Using same conditions as above :

Gold PSU @ 75% load (88.5% Eff) = 562.5 watts deliveerd and 73 watts wasted as heat
Gold PSU @ 35% load (88.5% Eff) = 262.5 watts delivered and 34 watts wasted as heat

No matter how much power costs, paying for 73 watts is wasting more than twice as much energy ... so if you are worried about dropping below 50% during idle or light loads ... don't.

6.  I would expect that the TPU audience, being more astute on this topic than your average Walmart buyer, would not have seen anything new here.  I would like to hear more about his comment about "modern" PSUs that have constant efficiency regardless of load % (See 18:30 mark).  Not sure what he is saying here.

7.  As to the comments .... the bit where w/ 2 PSUs the PCI-E slot power "was BS" is baffling.

OK, you are using a 225 watt card with a single 8-pin power connector.  The card is taking 75 watts from the board and 150 from the single 8-pin cable  ...  the solution is to turn off the PCI-E power ???   I don't think so.  You wanna pull 225 watts over a cable rated at only 150 watts ?

Having had a user with budget issues, rether than saying "Go Ahead" when he wanted to do this himself, we reluctantly recommended he use the "Add2PSU" product.  I used it once myself doing two complete systems in a single case.  But as you can see here,,, do you wnat to rn a single system with half powered by 11.71v on the 12 volt rail and 12.03 v  the other 

https:  //youtu.be/2GD38iLUcLI

8. I can't see the 2.0 to 2.5 multiplier thing  ... a) the maximum projected load is never realized on any system.  On my system,the mac protected load was 720 watts.  I use a multiplier of 1.25 for moderate overclocking projects and 1.50 for "Bawlz to the Wall" and that came to 1080 watts.  I was tempted to get a 1050 but was leaning to the 1250, when I saw the 1250 was cheaper, it became the proverbial "no-brainer".  I have the electric draw monitored at the wall and displaying at my desk.  Peak draw has never exceeded 685 watts and that's AC; actual output power is 616 watts or 49.3%

9.  Other than GPU and CPU power, best to included the tested system under the intended loadings.


			https://tpucdn.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-3900x/images/power-gaming.png


----------



## R-T-B (Nov 12, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Good question... and FTFY...



Hell, I got by on X58 with dual GTX 580's on an 850W Antec PSU.

Maybe add an SR-2 dual proc or something...



64K said:


> It's sad to me too. Oklaholma Wolf left reviewing on jonnyguru:



He was cryptomining well before the rush, so don't blame him.  He probably made bank.



64K said:


> It's sad to me too. Oklaholma Wolf left reviewing on jonnyguru:



He was cryptomining well before the rush, so don't blame him.  He probably made bank.



phill said:


> But isn't it right that the higher the number is better?? Isn't that the first rule of being a bloke??.....



That doesn't even work for penises.  See, at some point the number is so big you either are a retard, or accidentally lovekill your gf.


----------



## phill (Nov 12, 2019)

R-T-B said:


> Hell, I got by on X58 with dual GTX 580's on an 850W Antec PSU.
> 
> Maybe add an SR-2 dual proc or something...
> 
> ...



I'd love to know how you managed with dual GTX 580's (I had some 3Gb models, not sure they'd have pulled anything much more than the 1.5Gb models mind) but two of those and a heavily overclocked 920 D0 was definitely worth me having a 1200w unit lol

Hell, the SR-2 was scary, overclock just the CPUs in that beast of a motherboard and your looking north of 650w easily, let alone much else in the rig..  Hell at idle mine runs 200w, then with WCG it's taking over 400w and that's at stock CPU speeds!  (Dual X5675's....)

That last one made me lol...  Brilliant !!


----------



## R-T-B (Nov 13, 2019)

phill said:


> I'd love to know how you managed with dual GTX 580's (I had some 3Gb models, not sure they'd have pulled anything much more than the 1.5Gb models mind) but two of those and a heavily overclocked 920 D0 was definitely worth me having a 1200w unit lol
> 
> Hell, the SR-2 was scary, overclock just the CPUs in that beast of a motherboard and your looking north of 650w easily, let alone much else in the rig..  Hell at idle mine runs 200w, then with WCG it's taking over 400w and that's at stock CPU speeds!  (Dual X5675's....)
> 
> That last one made me lol...  Brilliant !!



Well, it was my brother and he had an very lightly overclocked 920.  His board (the DX58SO2) wouldn't oc worth a darn anyways.  I think we barely hit 2.9Ghz before it got weird.


----------



## phill (Nov 13, 2019)

R-T-B said:


> Well, it was my brother and he had an very lightly overclocked 920.  His board (the DX58SO2) wouldn't oc worth a darn anyways.  I think we barely hit 2.9Ghz before it got weird.



I was running 4.50Ghz+ with my 920 D0, was a lovely system   Both of my 920 D0 CPUs where brilliant overclockers   I got rather lucky with those two


----------



## R-T-B (Nov 13, 2019)

phill said:


> I was running 4.50Ghz+ with my 920 D0, was a lovely system   Both of my 920 D0 CPUs where brilliant overclockers   I got rather lucky with those two



Heck, his cpu may have been too.  Intel's boards were not OC boards so we'll never know, lol.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 13, 2019)

I had no problem pulling everything my TX850 had to give with my x5690 at a low 4300mhz and dual 570s at 900 core. Running f@h on everything I saw a peak of around 925w at the wall before I got nervous and turned things down a bit. The PSU was a bit warm heh. On my z77 with a 980 I only saw big numbers once.. when I ran fur mark I saw in the neighborhood of 700w. Normally at 3DMark load I see about 350w.


----------



## phill (Nov 13, 2019)

I was very happy at that point   I think I did a test with a 4770k at the time and in 3D Mark there was very little in both systems, performance wise...  4770k at stock mind...  The 920 was at 4.50Ghz, aside from the power difference between the two the numbers where fairly close together...  I think in game there might have been a little bit more of a difference..  But still I'm rambling, I'll go be quiet now


----------



## Mr.Scott (Nov 13, 2019)

phill said:


> Hell, the SR-2 was scary, overclock just the CPUs in that beast of a motherboard and your looking north of 650w easily, let alone much else in the rig..  Hell at idle mine runs 200w, then with WCG it's taking over 400w and that's at stock CPU speeds!  (Dual X5675's....)



SR-2 on a 10 year old PCP&C 750.


----------



## phanbuey (Nov 13, 2019)

John Naylor said:


> A few comments:
> 
> 1.  Modular - I don't accept the argument that folks are putting teeny PSUs in ATX builds as a reason to have modular cables.  This one, to my eyes, seems about selling Corsair custom cables.  Unless you are doing custom cables, semi modular where all required cables are hard wired and all optional ones are modular,  usually saves money, has no downside, even a fractional increase in efficiency and lower points of failure.
> 
> 2.  The "metal" rating *** for the most part relates*** purely to the cost of electricity. Tho to a lesser extent, the higher rating also means better parts which **can**, but not necessarily so, improve voltage stability and ripple.    As for the efficiency discussion, the suggestion that it "always is" or always is not" worthwhile is inane and myopic.  There can be no blanket rule here because this is an issue with no universal answer.  Let's set aside for the moment "Does the extra cost bring with it better voltage regulation ?  Lower Ripple ? "



I am using mine for the space saving - it allows me to get an additional double-thick rad at the bottom of the case intaking cold air.  The fact that it's unbelievably quiet and a nice psu is icing on the cake.





The modular custom sleeved cables are a nice touch, and there are many colors available - individually sleeved cables out of the box is really convenient to give your build that extra look.   Functionality wise having SFX psu in an atx build gives you quite a bit of room for cooling / accessories and cable management (once i go full water that space will be used for pump/rez).

Just for reference a compact full size PSU would end right where that rad starts.


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 13, 2019)

Mr.Scott said:


> SR-2 on a 10 year old PCP&C 750.
> 
> View attachment 136378


zOMG... are you sure you don't need 1.21 jiggawatts and go to 20A service for that??????????


----------



## thesmokingman (Nov 13, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> zOMG... are you sure you don't need 1.21 jiggawatts and go to 20A service for that??????????



Two circuits and two psus ftw?


----------



## Zach_01 (Nov 13, 2019)

Mr.Scott said:


> SR-2 on a 10 year old PCP&C 750.


PC Power&Cooling 750W 80+ (82%)... Great PSU and really high-end back then.
Had one for ~11 years. Still working with my old system (FX3870+R9 390X) Sold it to a friend...


----------



## dirtyferret (Nov 13, 2019)

I had a PC P&C 460w back in the day and then one of their 600w units after OCZ bought them but it just wasn't the same.


----------



## moproblems99 (Nov 13, 2019)

My PSU choice has turned to being what do I have on the shelf from my crypto parts that I don't use anymore.  In this case, it was a 1k prime ultra plat.  If I was buying, it would have been a 600 gold.

Basically, I don't care anymore as long as it is over 500w, gold, and promises to die gracefully.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 13, 2019)

Mine is still driving my old gigabyte ud5 setup the my buddy bought from me. Kinda wish I still had it. The tx850 I replaced it with was a bit disappointing.


----------



## phill (Nov 13, 2019)

Had the 1200w model which died somehow but saved my hardware, had two of them (one for each of my X58 rigs at the time) and then bought the 1200w Corsair AX units instead..  They where kinda noisy beasts but never the less good units 



EarthDog said:


> zOMG... are you sure you don't need 1.21 jiggawatts and go to 20A service for that??????????



I saw this @EarthDog and thought of you....  PSU Fun....


----------



## killster1 (Nov 17, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> YES!  I am trying to make sure the information provided is technically correct. You have not done that - until just now when you FINALLY admit, "of course the sockets draw some power". So thank you for FINALLY coming around to the facts.


doesnt mean that you cant power it from the second psu, just means you cant ONLY power it from second psu  which i said over and over, funny how you just cant stand being wrong so you back peddle over and over about how great you are in electronics.. yawn


----------



## E-Bear (Dec 13, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> This is probably one of THE best videos I've seen yet. Thank you for sharing this.
> 
> Loved it.
> 
> Honk if your PSU is over-kill!! lol.



Even at only 350 watts my psu is overkill hehhe


----------



## sepheronx (Dec 13, 2019)

dirtyferret said:


> I had a PC P&C 460w back in the day and then one of their 600w units after OCZ bought them but it just wasn't the same.


I had a brand new PC P&C die after three months of use taking Mobo, gpu and cpu with it.


----------



## Kissamies (Dec 13, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> This is probably one of THE best videos I've seen yet. Thank you for sharing this.
> 
> Loved it.
> 
> Honk if your PSU is over-kill!! lol.


Well, I had a R9 290 Crossfire so 750W was necessary.


----------



## dirtyferret (Dec 13, 2019)

sepheronx said:


> I had a brand new PC P&C die after three months of use taking Mobo, gpu and cpu with it.


That sucks, do you recall the model?  The vast majority of the units were Seasonic OEM


----------



## Grog6 (Dec 13, 2019)

The higher end powersupplies aren't so much overkill to me, as they are higher quality and give better longevity.

a decent 1000W power supply has better components than their 600W version, all else being equal, because if they didn't use better caps/magnetics/heatsinks then it would melt.


You overpay if you do that, but I'll take that hit.

I'm running a 1000W Cooler Master PSU on this PC, the one across the room is a 1200W, and neither one is loaded past about 25% now.


They have been in the past; I had a 3 card HD 4870 setup that's been in 3 of my systems at different times, and a HD 5870 dual crossfire, and a dual HD7970 setup.
Now, this one is rocking an RX480, and the other one there is running a X1850 AIW capture card, so the PSU is mad overkill. 

I tend to look at shipping weight when I'm looking at powersupplies; heavier is usually better; although I've seen cheapo manufacturers put a lead sheet inside the box to make it feel higher quality.
(That was on some cheap office PC's I worked on for a buddy, back in the late 90's; it made it easy to diagnose the problem, lol.)


----------



## sepheronx (Dec 13, 2019)

dirtyferret said:


> That sucks, do you recall the model?  The vast majority of the units were Seasonic OEM


Can't remember for life of me sorry. It was about 9 years ago


----------



## Mr.Scott (Dec 14, 2019)

dirtyferret said:


> That sucks, do you recall the model?  The vast majority of the units were Seasonic OEM


Only before OCZ took them over. 
After was a hodge podge pending the model.


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Dec 14, 2019)

Grog6 said:


> The higher end powersupplies aren't so much overkill to me, as they are higher quality and give better longevity.
> 
> a decent 1000W power supply has better components than their 600W version, all else being equal, because if they didn't use better caps/magnetics/heatsinks then it would melt.
> 
> ...



Love the old school xfire.
Had a Sapphire 4850x2 and 2 single slot Asus 4850s with it. 
Killed 550w Antec PSU with it. PSU shut off never to power on again!! Bought current 850w Antec continuous power series and have been using that since. Its nearing 10 years old now.
Was happy and impressed with the PSU went ahead and got the Antec 1000w CP series for benching. That also is closing in on 10 years old. For my rigs (main gamer and main benching table) these are the only 2 psus Ive bought in the last decade.

Have a corsair 650w and also EVGA 700w PSU along with other various sizes and models. 

All over kill for each rig.
700w powers Ryzen 1400 with gtx 760. Super overkill. But it runs quiet and cool and will last a long time in this environment.
The 650w powers an Athlon 220ge with vega graphics not using a discrete card. This PSU is gosh at least 6 to 8 years old now. 
With all the overkill, you're right. Havent had to buy a new psu in a long time. The 700w evga is newest already working on 2 years old now. It didnt cost much more than a 550w so I just went bigger to stay safe at home. Or if in really bad need my big ones die, I have a back up just in case.


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## Grog6 (Dec 14, 2019)

I was surprised to find that 3x 4870's would draw 900w by themselves, running Heaven.


I was running a 1200W Corsair PSU at the time; I finally noticed all the heat coming off the case, and hooked up a wattmeter to it, lol.

I'm sure that helped kill that power supply, but only after I upgraded cards.


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 14, 2019)

Grog6 said:


> I was surprised to find that 3x 4870's would draw 900w by themselves, running Heaven.
> 
> 
> I was running a 1200W Corsair PSU at the time; I finally noticed all the heat coming off the case, and hooked up a wattmeter to it, lol.
> ...



I wasn't pulling more than the PSU could handle at 850w. Even with the three cards. I don't think I over-volted them ever, the single slots did not like to oc, they ran hot as fudge on ice cream.

I even ran Ageia Physx card in that set up. Cell Factor Revolution and UT3 where my favorites back then lol. The physx engine really stood out from the graphics at the time, people now a days look for shiney over particle count. But I can tell you now, that Cell factor revolution was way ahead of it's time. I've played in on my Ryzen rig and gtx 980. it plays way smoother now than it did back then 10 fold lol. But wow the particles in that game. Unfortunately, I cannot run the physx card because I don't have legacy PCI on the board. But the game does have a map or two playable without the ageia physx card. 

Good times.


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## EarthDog (Dec 14, 2019)

Grog6 said:


> a decent 1000W power supply has better components than their 600W version, all else being equal, because if they didn't use better caps/magnetics/heatsinks then it would melt.


I think you are confusing better with higher/more capacity. The quality of the part(s) should remain the same on the same platform. For example, using a specific brand/model capacitor just with higher capacity. Same technology and quality just in higher capacities/ratings. That doesn't mean they are of higher quality...just appropriately sized for the output. 

I'm mean sure a larger heatsink for more heat to dissipate is better than a smaller one, technically, but the smaller one uses an appropriately sized model for its output. The heatsink isnt really better (different materials, etc) just fits the capacity.

In general though, it is the same quality parts but with higher capacities in the same oem.


Grog6 said:


> I was surprised to find that 3x 4870's would draw 900w by themselves, running Heaven.
> 
> 
> I was running a 1200W Corsair PSU at the time; I finally noticed all the heat coming off the case, and hooked up a wattmeter to it, lol.
> ...


I'm curious to hear what you did to make 150W cards ~300W each while under ambient cooling..lol


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## FreedomEclipse (Dec 14, 2019)

Maybe Mr JonnyGuru should tell us why corsair's CX range has such poor reliability.


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## EarthDog (Dec 14, 2019)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Maybe Mr JonnyGuru should tell us why corsair's CX range has such poor reliability.


Because it is their budget line and is hit and miss. His site reviewed the psu already...look what it said.


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## Grog6 (Dec 14, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> I think you are confusing better with higher/more capacity. The quality of the part(s) should remain the same on the same platform. For example, using a specific brand/model capacitor just with higher capacity. Same technology and quality just in higher capacities/ratings. That doesn't mean they are of higher quality...just appropriately sized for the output.
> 
> I'm mean sure a larger heatsink for more heat to dissipate is better than a smaller one, technically, but the smaller one uses an appropriately sized model for its output. The heatsink isnt really better (different materials, etc) just fits the capacity.
> 
> ...



The thing is, you can't just use more capacitors; the entire power supply gets redesigned around totally different components.

Permalloy cores are more expensive than ferrites, but have a higher saturation point; if the core can move more power, than it needs more capacitors to hold that power.
The ESR of the caps comes into play, because you can't have the caps getting too hot, and there's ripple current ratings, that determine how much current you can put in/take out of the caps.

I'm an engineer, and I take stuff apart, just to see if I can learn anything new. I've sent stuff back because it WAS NOT what I paid for. 

As far as the 4870's; that's what I measured, at full load, running Haven benchmark.
It had the performance of about the same as one 7970, iirc. It's been years.

After a quick search, I'll stand by my power comment:







That shows a 4870 at 283 watts in game, and 150 idle; that's close enough for me.

These aren't exactly simple cards...









						Sapphire HD 4870 Vapor-X 1 GB Specs
					

ATI RV770, 750 MHz, 800 Cores, 40 TMUs, 16 ROPs, 1024 MB GDDR5, 900 MHz, 256 bit




					www.techpowerup.com
				



That's the master; it's three slots wide; the other two are two slots.


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## EarthDog (Dec 14, 2019)

Grog6 said:


> The thing is, you can't just use more capacitors; the entire power supply gets redesigned around totally different components.
> 
> Permalloy cores are more expensive than ferrites, but have a higher saturation point; if the core can move more power, than it needs more capacitors to hold that power.
> The ESR of the caps comes into play, because you can't have the caps getting too hot, and there's ripple current ratings, that determine how much current you can put in/take out of the caps.
> ...


Yes, IF they switch parts, they of course can be of higher quality. But within reason, if they are from the same family it is the same parts with a higher capacity. There may be threshold where it switches, but, the difference between a 750W model and 850W model in the same family is more in capacity of the parts than higher quality. I dont think the parts differ much within a line. The vast majority of things are the same or similar but with higher capacities or quantities. I believe the EVGA b3 line uses similar parts with higher capacities. Same as the t3 line.. sure, t3 line has higher quality parts than b3. But I dont believe within a series there are many differences outside of capacity. I get all the details (ripple, etc).

Edit: example.. evga 650w g3, 750w g3, and 850w g3 -








						EVGA SuperNOVA 650W G3 Power Supply Review - PC Perspective
					

EVGA SuperNOVA 650W G3 Power Supply Review Introduction




					pcper.com
				











						EVGA SuperNOVA 750W G3 Power Supply Review - PC Perspective
					

EVGA SuperNOVA 750W G3 Power Supply Review Introduction




					pcper.com
				











						EVGA SuperNOVA 850W G3 Power Supply Review - PC Perspective
					

EVGA SuperNOVA 850W G3 Power Supply Review Introduction




					pcper.com
				





You realize that chart is SYSTEM power and not the gpu only,  right? So take AT LEAST 10% off that value for psu inefficiency and the system is pulling ~255W. Less 150-175w for the GPU and 75-100w for cpu/system... I can believe 200-225w for the GPU alone when overclocked, but 300w is doubling the cards output. If you add two more 200w cards to that system draw you are almost reaching ~655W system power use. I figured they were modded to be able to draw 300w each. Old systems are terrible in idle so that data point isnt really relevant.

Tpus power draw (system)...https://www.techpowerup.com/review/diamond-hd-4870/21.html

Anyway..it doesnt really matter. These details..


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## dirtyferret (Dec 14, 2019)

Mr.Scott said:


> Only before OCZ took them over.
> After was a hodge podge pending the model.


True but they still used seasonic for some units.  I purchased a 600w MK 3 that was basically a rebranded M12 and had to return it for coil whine issues.


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## thebluebumblebee (Dec 14, 2019)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Maybe Mr JonnyGuru should tell us why corsair's CX range has such poor reliability.


Is their reliability poor, or is it just that we hear about their failures more because they sell so many of them?


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## FreedomEclipse (Dec 14, 2019)

thebluebumblebee said:


> Is their reliability poor, or is it just that we hear about their failures more because they sell so many of them?



Or are they 'selling more' because people are returning their banged up unit for another or buying another before re-selling the rma'd unit?


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## dirtyferret (Dec 14, 2019)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Or are they 'selling more' because people are returning their banged up unit for another or buying another before re-selling the rma'd unit?


It's their best selling line so you will hear about them.  The original CX units were mediocre but they on their 4th version of the units and they offer solid performance for the dollar.


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## hat (Dec 15, 2019)

For what it's worth, I did have a Corsair CX600 fail on me. It was in a computer with a stock i5-2400 in a locked H67 motherboard, but two GTX1070s sucking down 300w together during mining load. Even though much of that 300w was supposed to be delivered by the PCI-E connectors, the +12v wires on the main 24-pin connector managed to get really hot and melted both the connector on the power supply and the motherboard around those wires. Everything survived, including the power supply after some splicing, but I guess it just couldn't handle it. I did the same thing again with all the same parts with a really budget 500w EVGA power supply and nothing melted... but to be fair, I had since lowered the power target to 80% on both my cards and added a house fan to the side of the case.


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