# Giving up on Prebuilts



## DailymotionGamer (May 22, 2010)

I am giving up on buying prebuilts, maybe it took a while to see this, but those things are just too damn expensive.  I wanted a gateway machine so badly, but you end up paying 800 and more, whereas you can build a computer and save 400 or even 500 bucks if you know what you're buying. Anyways, here is what is happening. I am a builder now  

On another note, if you notice over the past few years, i have slowly gotten away from things which i should have been given up years ago, PCI cards, not to PCIE, 6 pin video cards, etc. One thing that will never change is shopping at best buy for " Video cards & other items " . 

Anyways, my first upgrade/Build is this: I have a emachine Pentium D 805 2.6ghz computer. I have recently upgraded this machine with the following items:

*Western Digital - Caviar GP Internal 500GB Green - Best buy*
*Thermaltake TR2 W0070 430W PSU*
*Western Digital 500GB External*

" What else am i adding/upgrading " 

For only a few dollars more, i am getting a black edition  

Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, L...

XFX 1GB ATI 5750 GDDR5, why not the 5770, well i don't want to push my PSU, the 5750 draws less power compared to the 5770. But the 5750 is really good and keep in mind this dual core is my secondary rig, so it should be just fine for the system and games  

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/XFX+-+A...Card/9715789.p?id=1218156773765&skuId=9715789

*Plan to order the Combo monday and buy the card first week of June  I plan on buying a new case, but not right now, even tho i might add one when i make the order.* 
..........................................

My other rig is a ASUS Q8300. No need to get rid of it, just upgrade it , to what you might add, well Intel of course: But this is where i need some help, you guys have any suggestions, looking over the combo deals?

Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, L...

Under 500 please, and a Intel Quad core, something better than the Q8300. All i need is a new Cpu & Motherboard. As for the Video card, I have plans to buy one of the gtx summer cards.


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## Fourstaff (May 22, 2010)

You have finally grown up  How about getting an aftermarket cooler for your Q8300? Its time to go one step ahead. I will shamelessly say that I have never done any overclocking before, except upping the multi of a Black Edition processor. I guess its time to start overclocking soon, just that I don't have any rig with me!


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## MoonPig (May 22, 2010)

Wow, never saw this day coming...

5750 will be a decent card. Pity you don't want to push for the 5770 though 

+1 on the CPU cooler, but overclocking and a 5750/5770 might need a new PSU.


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## mlee49 (May 22, 2010)

It's about time you listened to our suggestions.  And again, your paying more from buying at Best Buy or in some circumstances MicroCenter/Fry's.

I'm glad to see you take the time to build a pc buddy   I say go with a Q9550($199 at Microcenter) and a good P45 board($100).  Couple that with some good DDR2(1066) and you'll be set for a far superior pc than your P4.


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## DailymotionGamer (May 22, 2010)

Fourstaff said:


> You have finally grown up  How about getting an aftermarket cooler for your Q8300?


I plan to get rid of the Q8300, thats why i ask for you guys to help me choose a decent Intel Quad Core that is better than the Q8300. 



MoonPig said:


> Wow, never saw this day coming
> 5750 will be a decent card. Pity you don't want to push for the 5770 though :


I actually wanted one of those Cool Looking HIs cooler cards, but the XFX will do. As for buying a 5770, it draws from what i read over at gpu 108 power, the 5750 will seem like a better option for my PSU, which i have no plans to change. 



mlee49 said:


> It's about time you listened to our suggestions.  And again, your paying more from buying at Best Buy or in some circumstances MicroCenter/Fry's.


I do have limits, meaning i don't want to buy everything from newegg. Video cards i rather stick with buying at best buy, spending 10 or 20 dollars more, isn't a issue with me. I just make sure all my bills are paid first and i am not in debt, don't have kids, so its not like i don't have money to spend. 

On another note, i do see your point. The XFX 5750 is 129 dollars vs 160 bucks at best buy lol. But its all good.  



mlee49 said:


> I'm glad to see you take the time to build a pc buddy   I say go with a Q9550($199 at Microcenter) and a good P45 board($100).  Couple that with some good DDR2(1066) and you'll be set for a far superior pc than your P4.


I only want to shop at newegg, thats why i listed the link to the combo deals. As for DDR2 Memory, i plan to on replacing my Q8300 with a MB that supports DDR3 memory.


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## hat (May 22, 2010)

Hm, you've some to being an arrogant B&M retail machine buyer who only used PCI graphics cards to someone who actually builds thier own shit, buys from newegg and uses decent graphics cards. You've grown 

you need to work on buying graphics cards from newegg. I can understand some of the B&M loyalty since you get parts faster, but if you're buying stuff from newegg, you might as well order the video card from there too. You'll save money, and it's not like you'll get anything built faster... it'll just come with your other parts being shipped.


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## AlienIsGOD (May 22, 2010)

@ U2K ,  glad to see u join the other 99.99% of DIYers here on TPU.  Re the 5750: good choice, good card, and u get a lifetime warranty.  As for a replacement on the Q8300, the only thing better is the Q9xxx series for S775.  A 9450/9550 would do u very well; im impressed with my 9450 even after 2 years.  If u decided to go the AMD route there are a world of possiblities for u to explore.


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## DailymotionGamer (May 23, 2010)

What about this as a upgrade towards the Q8300:

Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, L...

or this for near 500, is a i7 worth that much anyway? 

Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, L...

or

Intel Core i7-920 Bloomfield 2.66GHz 4 x 256KB L2 ...

but even when buying that , i am nearing 500 

I might just end up buying a cheap nice Quad core and MB, nothing fancy, just want a Quad as in Intel. 

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz 12MB L2 ...

now if i buy that above and find a intel MB, i am looking slightly above 300 which is better or under 300. That first link, the combo deal looks nice tho, love the MB 




hat said:


> You need to work on buying graphics cards from newegg. I can understand some of the B&M loyalty since you get parts faster, but if you're buying stuff from newegg, you might as well order the video card from there too. You'll save money, and it's not like you'll get anything built faster... it'll just come with your other parts being shipped.


Well if everything works out well with ordering the MB & CPU next week, i will do so. I did order some Sata cords a while back, they work perfectly.


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## AlienIsGOD (May 23, 2010)

The first link there is nice.  P55 and i5 for 300 bones is good deal and cost effective versus the i7 for 500.  Also the P55 combo has a bit more longevity compared to the Q9550 link (S775 is EOL), that and ur getting a mobo+cpu with the i5 compared to the cpu alone in the Q9550.


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## theonedub (May 23, 2010)

If you have a Frys near you and are willing to shop there you can get an i7 860 + MB for ~$315+TAX. That's bang for your buck  Only other thing would be DDR3 RAM.


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## animal007uk (May 23, 2010)

The hd5750 is a good buy, i just got myself one today and god damn its nice, i went from a hd4650 to this 5750 and its better than i even thought. i got just under 12000 points on 3dmark 2006 at 1920/1080 res. my hd4650 would probs get 500 points at the same res lol.

Reminds me i must update my specs<<<


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## TheLaughingMan (May 23, 2010)

I liked that i750 combo at first glance, but that mobo seems to have a lot of bugs.  That is not normal for Asus, but I guess everyone makes a crap part every now and then.

I will just say welcome to the club.

I am not an Intel guy, but these two seem like better options.  1 on the low cost end, 1 on the high quality end.

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## mlee49 (May 23, 2010)

Hey buddy, check this out:

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$600 but killer cpu, motherboard, ram, power supply, case, and 1.5TB HDD.  Really good deal when you put in your 5750. You could easily sell the remaining parts for $100 to make up the loss.


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## Mussels (May 23, 2010)

our little baby boy is growing into a (nerd) man at last! *sheds a tear*


took ya long enough  now go buy some REAL hardware


and yeah, stay away from WD green drives for anything but storage. they're slooooooow. why backup a fast drive to a slow drive, for example? fast to fast is gunna save you lots of time.


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## overclocking101 (May 23, 2010)

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there you go m8. its a hyper threaded dual core (4cores total) and asus motherboard for only $269. and if you feel like it you can later on dow the raod get a lynnfield quad hyperthreaded (8core)

that my 2c

I would not get a bloomfield i7 unless you plan on getting a new power supply to.  because a 400w psu is not enough at all for i7

the link I posted and the first link you posted with the i5 750 will perform almost the same. if you stay 775 it will be hard to find a decnt overclocking motherboard because they are getting very hard to find now a days.


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## Mussels (May 23, 2010)

saw this, thought it very appropriate.

Good luck with building a modern, beastly system


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## vaiopup (May 24, 2010)

Lol, gone the opposite way........in the UK parts are overpriced and the pre-builds are so cheap.

Pre-build.....psu swap out....sorted.


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## shevanel (May 24, 2010)

You won't be disapointed with the i5, It will run circles around your current rig for a long time. you should def try going for the 5770, best bang for buck for an average gamer.


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## qubit (May 24, 2010)

u2konline said:


> I am giving up on buying prebuilts, maybe it took a while to see this, but those things are just too damn expensive.  I wanted a gateway machine so badly, but you end up paying 800 and more, whereas you can build a computer and save 400 or even 500 bucks if you know what you're buying. Anyways, here is what is happening. I am a builder now



Awesome, welcome to the club!  You'll never, ever catch me bying a prebuilt, unless it's a laptop.



Mussels said:


> and yeah, stay away from WD green drives for anything but storage. they're slooooooow.



Well, they may be slow in benchies and general comparisons with other drives, but they're faster than you'd think. A while back, I bought a 1.5T GreenPower for data backup and for kicks, I thought I'd install Windows 7 on it. And you know what? It wasn't slow at all. Both installation, bootup and general performance running Windows was fine. It also runs quite cool and the best bit.... dead silent! 

I guess this is a classic case where "slow" is relative.


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## Mussels (May 24, 2010)

qubit said:


> Well, they may be slow in benchies and general comparisons with other drives, but they're faster than you'd think. A while back, I bought a 1.5T GreenPower for data backup and for kicks, I thought I'd install Windows 7 on it. And you know what? It wasn't slow at all. Both installation, bootup and general performance running Windows was fine. It also runs quite cool and the best bit.... dead silent!
> 
> I guess this is a classic case where "slow" is relative.



yeah... its fine if you compare it to an old 200GB drive, but its slow as crap compared to seagate/samsung drives in the same price range.


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## Psychoholic (May 24, 2010)

Not sure if you have a frys around you or not, but i thought this was a pretty good combo deal.

http://frys-electronics-ads.com/ads/2010/05/21/48092/Intel-Core-i7-Processor-860-Gigabyte-GA-P55A-UD3-Motherboard


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## qubit (May 24, 2010)

Mussels said:


> yeah... its fine if you compare it to an old 200GB drive, but its slow as crap compared to seagate/samsung drives in the same price range.



I'm sure it is. However, I have a Raptor X and other fast WD drives and all I'm saying is that it didn't feel slow, like you'd expect from a performance review one reads; it surprised me too. I don't doubt that a formal benchie will show up a large performance difference.


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## Mussels (May 24, 2010)

qubit said:


> I'm sure it is. However, I have a Raptor X and other fast WD drives and all I'm saying is that it didn't feel slow, like you'd expect from a performance review one reads; it surprised me too. I don't doubt that a formal benchie will show up a large performance difference.



the access times aint so bad, its the throughput. i tested a 1TB samsung vs a seagate vs a WD green, and god... 75MB/s read vs 140MB/s read? yeah, the green was slooooow.

write speeds were poor too, with the green struggling for 40MB/s sustained (the others did 60-80 on average).

It should also be noted i was NOT just testing one part of the drive, i was filling them completely with data as storage drives.


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## qubit (May 24, 2010)

I wonder why their data transfer is so slow? I mean, if you have a certain spin speed and a certain areal density, it pretty much dictates the transfer speed - it's simple physics. Therefore, you'd expect all drives of the same class to perform about the same in this respect.


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## Mussels (May 24, 2010)

qubit said:


> I wonder why their data transfer is so slow? I mean, if you have a certain spin speed and a certain areal density, it pretty much dictates the transfer speed - it's simple physics. Therefore, you'd expect all drives of the same class to perform about the same in this respect.



because computer stuff is anything but simple.


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## DailymotionGamer (May 24, 2010)

I have decided this for good and thanks for all the help guys  

Going to order 5/20/2010 = 
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Going to buy this first week of June: 
XFX 5750 1GB. 
..............................

As for my Quad Core Main rig, later this year i will be buying the following:
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And one of those summer nvidia dx11 mid range cards. 
And thats pretty much it. I will update this thread again once i get my new mb and cpu next week


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## Frick (May 24, 2010)

Prebuilds are nice if you're getting a new budget system imo. I've bought several HP machines for the family because they were good deals at the moment. At least in sweden there is not a lot of difference if you need a complete system, including monitor, OS, keyboards and so on.


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## DailymotionGamer (May 26, 2010)

Quick question, i was wondering do you need to do a fresh install of a OS if you install new MB & CPU? Its best to do so right?


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## slyfox2151 (May 26, 2010)

yes if its a new MOBO. - Always

however if your just changing the cpu no.


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## TIGR (May 26, 2010)

For what it's worth, prebuilt machines are the best choice in some cases and for some buyers. And by prebuilt, I don't only mean prebuilt machines from custom computer businesses (like my own); I include Compq, Dell, eMachines, Gateway, HP, etc. in that, which ought to mean something coming from one of their direct competitors.

In certain price segments (especially for lower-end machines), they simply offer the top bang for the buck sometimes, because they can buy components in incredible bulk. And because they buy and sell in such mass quantities and thus the same design is to be used on many systems, that design is sometimes quite good. I've seen some very intelligently thought out and well-built chassis and cooling solutions from the "big brands."

I often see hobbyists say that building your own system is cheaper than buying prebuilt. Sometimes this is true, but often not by much, and just as often it is the other way around due the the quantity discounts the big manufacturers can get on bulk components. When I started building custom computers professionally, I wanted to say all prebuilts are overpriced junk, but have learned that competing with them can be challenging for some types of computers, and for good reason.

It all depends on many factors, but I wouldn't say in general that refusing to buy prebuilts is "growing up." It just depends on your specific needs and what's available at what cost. I'd probably be more popular here if I didn't say this, and might sell more computers if I slandered the names of the big computer manufacturers ... but honesty and giving credit where credit is due is too important.


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## Frick (May 26, 2010)

TIGR said:


> And because they buy and sell in such mass quantities and thus the same design is to be used on many systems, that design is sometimes quite good. I've seen some very intelligently thought out and well-built chassis and cooling solutions from the "big brands."



I hear that, the older Dell systems were pretty darn awesome to deal with because of the designs. Don't know how it is nowadays, put in the P4 days they were incredibly easy to work with.


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## currahee440 (May 26, 2010)

The HP system I had now I thought was a pretty good deal at the time. For $777 I got a 20.1" HP monitor, A Core 2 Duo Wolfdale, 2GB DDR2, 500GB HDD, and a 8400 with a TV tuner. 

however it's when you move into the high end stuff where the companies try to reap the biggest profits, so it's cheaper to build your own. It's kind of like how the Detroit three focused on SUVs- because making them was profitable whereas small cars aren't as profitable. 

Of course now I'm selling this desktop to a roommate and building a PC by myself now


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## DailymotionGamer (May 26, 2010)

Thanks slyfox2151, going to order the new MB & CPU tomorrow morning, should get it tuesday because of the holiday. Can't wait ! 
Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, L...
You know the dual core combo.  The 5750 XFX card i will order first week of june. 

As for prebuilts, just seem like waste of time, i was looking at some prebuilts over at best buy a few mins ago, they have them around 300-600 bucks, but you can save about 300 or 400 bucks just buy building a system lol. Just seems like no point in dealing with a prebuilts, unless you really don't want to build, which i didn't, but now i see a point and a reason to do so. 

On another note, if you build everything instead of upgrading/replacing/building a already prebuilt system, the total price depending on what you get will cost you around 500-700 bucks. But in the long run, you might not need to upgrade anything for years and years. So either way, building is the way to go. Too bad i didn't see that sooner hahaha. I do like the cpu and mb combo's tho, it has the prebuilt feel to it haha. That way i don't have to go searching for a cpu and mb on its on. So the combo deals are really cool.


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## Mussels (May 27, 2010)

u2konline said:


> Thanks slyfox2151, going to order the new MB & CPU tomorrow morning, should get it tuesday because of the holiday. Can't wait !
> Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, L...
> You know the dual core combo.  The 5750 XFX card i will order first week of june.
> 
> ...



not to mention you get a longer warranty doing it yourself... some items like corsair PSU's have 7 year warranty periods, whereas a prebuilt would max out at 3 years if you're lucky.


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## DailymotionGamer (Jun 28, 2010)

Just a slight update. Didn't feel like going a replacing route with my Q8300 Asus computer. So i took back that computer and bought me a prebuilt. An AMD 810 Quad Core, got my PNY GT250 back, and bought a BFG 450 PSU, which works well with the GTS250.

On another update, i did recently order a Intel E3300 2.5 CPU and Asus MB from newegg to replace my Intel Pentium D. Picking up a 5750 next weekend  So i am pretty much set right now , got me a nice quad and soon a nice dual core.


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## Athlon2K15 (Jun 28, 2010)

prebuilt= fail


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## DailymotionGamer (Jun 28, 2010)

AthlonX2 said:


> prebuilt= fail



Well this was only a one time thing, i mean in the future if i have to upgrade from my amd 810 i will just use newegg and buy a new cpu and mb. But i took back the q8300 got my money back and well i always wanted a brand new gateway , i love gateway products. 

Anyways, check out my first video:

http://www.youtube.com/user/MaximumDemos

Runs extremely well with no issues without fraps, and records decently with fraps  

I can't wait to get my e3300 tho, and use the 5750, that should be a blast.


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## Athlon2K15 (Jun 28, 2010)

im not sure upgrading a gateway is that easy most of there motherboards are BTX so...you need a new case if you get a new mb and your back at square 1


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