# Bitcoin price suddenly surges to 3-year high



## dorsetknob (Nov 5, 2020)

Bitcoin price suddenly surges to 3-year high
		



Bitcoin is approaching a new record price high after it suddenly surged on Thursday.
The cryptocurrency is currently trading above $15,000 – up from around $5,000 in March. It is now less than $5,000 away from the all-time high seen in late 2017.
The 9 per cent gains for bitcoin over the last 24 hours comes after steady gains over the last month for the world’s most valuable cryptocurrency. 
The price gains come amid geopolitical and economic uncertainty resulting from the coronavirus pandemic and a drawn out US election.
Other cryptocurrencies also experienced significant gains, with Ethereum (ether), Ripple (XRP) and bitcoin cash all rising by between 4 and 10 per cent.
The 9 per cent gains for bitcoin over the last 24 hours comes after steady gains over the last month for the world’s most valuable cryptocurrency. 

Lets hope the new Cards coming to the Market don't cause a Shortage and spike in their Availability and Price


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## R-T-B (Nov 13, 2020)

The stock market is posting gains too.  But in bitcoins case, this was predicted, the effect was just delayed.  It's due to the recent block halving.  It's by no means more profitable to mine, as such.  There are literally half as many being released via mining now.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Nov 13, 2020)

BTC is well over $16k now.


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## birdie (Nov 13, 2020)

It was totally expected and it's not sudden - hopefully its price won't dip below 10K this time around and I'm almost sure some correction will follow, maybe even to $12K or less. It has gained over 60% for the past several months - looks like some confidence behind it is building though the most recent news about $1 billion in bitcoins ceased by the US government is certainly quite scary. It means the US government has a vehicle to drive its price down by as much as 80% :-( Imagine they decide to sell all of their bitcoins in one day. That sounds horrible.


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## jjnissanpatfan (Nov 13, 2020)

I think when it hits 23-25K it will bottom out again. To much risk unless you had like ten or 20 when they started and were worthless, other than that the risk is too great.


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## birdie (Nov 13, 2020)

jjnissanpatfan said:


> I think when it hits 23-25K it will bottom out again. To much risk unless you had like ten or 20 when they started and were worthless, other than that the risk is too great.



It remains to be seen considering that large institutional investors are now involved. Bitcoin has stopped being a pure speculative investment many many years ago. It had an insane run at the end of 2017 driven by Tether printing and hype but after that its growth has been almost natural. I for one would like Tether and USD coins to be abolished altogether because in this case we'd know for sure how much Bitcoin is really worth without these two pump-and-dump instruments. I still believe both are worth nothing and the people around them are ... conmen. They've created quite a bad reputation for the whole crypto market.


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## ZenZimZaliben (Nov 16, 2020)

jjnissanpatfan said:


> I think when it hits 23-25K it will bottom out again. To much risk unless you had like ten or 20 when they started and were worthless, other than that the risk is too great.


Yes, I agree and expect a lot of people that bought at 18K+ to start dumping.


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## hat (Nov 18, 2020)

Looks like it's even higher now. Nearing 18k.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 18, 2020)

Well, it is nearly Christmas, three years running.


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## moproblems99 (Nov 18, 2020)

I'd hate for all the gpu stock to be gone....


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## Space Lynx (Nov 18, 2020)

moproblems99 said:


> I'd hate for all the gpu stock to be gone....


why do new gpu's matter at all? i got a 6800, but i might make what 50 cents mining after 1 month with it?  electricity isn't free  and new cards don't put a dent in mining.  unless there is news i am missing?

how much money could i make mining with my 6800 in 1 month? if its more than 200 bucks i might consider it, but im guessing more like 30 bucks max. lol


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## DeathtoGnomes (Nov 18, 2020)

hat said:


> Looks like it's even higher now. Nearing 18k.


Charts say it hit very close to $18.5k today.


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## InhaleOblivion (Nov 18, 2020)

Madness.  Then again considering how other markets have benefited from COVID-19.


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## Space Lynx (Nov 18, 2020)

InhaleOblivion said:


> Madness.  Then again considering how other markets have benefited from COVID-19.




bitcoin is no different than our stock markets, the rich get richers and their friends help other friends get rich and it never ends.  story as old as humans, us common folk still just hope to work the 40 hr week and have a decent retirement at the end.  if you were lucky enough to get in on bitcoin early and hoddle you are sitting good for sure. but who could have ever predicted it would take off, everything has risks, no matter how sure you are about something.


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## trog100 (Nov 24, 2020)

the alts are now going up along with bitcoin.. 50% or so over the last thirty days and i think its only just beginning.. the alts have a lot of catching up to do.. 

bitcoin is near its all time high the alts have a long way to go yet..

trog


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## R0H1T (Nov 24, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> but who could have ever predicted it would take off, everything has risks, no matter how sure you are about something.


Pretty sure this was predictable. Lots of free money, stimulus & nearly zero interest rates ~ sounds familiar? Why yes because that's what happens almost every decade or two!


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## dorsetknob (Nov 24, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> Pretty sure this was predictable. Lots of free money, stimulus & nearly zero interest rates ~ sounds familiar?



Meanwhile in Australia Sheep Shearers( Due to COVID restrictions) are retraining for the Crypto Market


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## Space Lynx (Nov 24, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> Pretty sure this was predictable. Lots of free money, stimulus & nearly zero interest rates ~ sounds familiar? Why yes because that's what happens almost every decade or two!



good for those of you who got in early. but you can't get in now. so meh.  can't mine it, not worth it. can't get a job that pays me in it, etc.  and the IRS taxes it, electricity fees, etc. i mean congrats if you got in early and hoddled.  but if you didn't, there is no point buying a little piece right now. lol


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## moproblems99 (Nov 24, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> can't mine it, not worth it.



You look at mining the wrong way.  You aren't mining for today as much as tomorrow.  If mining eth today loses money, that same eth could be worth 20k tomorrow.

Don't get me wrong, I ain't about to jump in and mine but sometimes it's about the long game.


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## trog100 (Dec 17, 2020)

interesting times again for crypto.. bitcoin briefly hit £23 thousand an hour or two back..

it might soon be worth switching on my 10 x 1070 miner gain.. i never did get around to stripping it down and selling the parts..

trog


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## 111frodon (Dec 17, 2020)

trog100 said:


> interesting times again for crypto.. bitcoin briefly hit £23 thousand an hour or two back..
> 
> it might soon be worth switching on my 10 x 1070 miner gain.. i never did get around to stripping it down and selling the parts..
> 
> trog



They are profitable. The 570/580 are producing over 1,25 CAN$ each a day, while 1070s are more in the 1.05 range. The income my farm (800 MH/s) produce has more than double since the covid crash.


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## trog100 (Dec 18, 2020)

well i just switched on my miners.. they are my desktop machine which has one 2080 ti in it and my purpose built miner with 8 x 1070 cards..  the 2080ti is roughly like two 1070 cards.. 

currently i am seeing around 12 dollars a day.. all my hardware is paid for so their is no return on costs stuff to worry about..  its all profit less the cost of electricity..

thats about 360 dollars a month..  or in my case £270 quid.. if i allow £100 quid a month for leccy that leaves £170 a month profit.. 

welly worth running them..  maybe not worth buying it all but i already did that three years ago.. he he

if crypto goes up which i expect it to my profits will go up but my leccy bill will stay the same.. 

trog


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## moproblems99 (Dec 18, 2020)

trog100 said:


> well i just switched on my miners.



I thought about it but I don't have a spare room any more.


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## trog100 (Dec 18, 2020)

moproblems99 said:


> I thought about it but I don't have a spare room any more.



mine is still sat exactly where i left it three years ago gathering dust in my spare bedroom..  

for reasons unknown to me i had to increase the virtual memory a lot before i could get nicehash to run..  but when i did that its running fine..

i think nicehash mostly runs etherium and then converts it to bitcoin.. on that basis its eth i need to go up.. currently its well below its what it peaked at so i think it will..

i hodle so its what the future is about not the present for me..

plus in my case its helping to heat my upstairs rooms he he..

trog


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## ZenZimZaliben (Dec 23, 2020)

What a nice end to a crap year. Thanks BTC!


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## hat (Dec 28, 2020)

Looks like the Coinbase card might finally be coming to the US...


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## Space Lynx (Jan 3, 2021)

So Bitcoin hit above 33k per coin I read today...

What is the cause of this? my best guess is that world governments continue to print in ever record breaking amounts without having any plans in place to pay it back... keep raising that debt ceiling as the bi-partisan lingo goes...


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## Outback Bronze (Jan 3, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> What is the cause of this



Institution investors have poured in. Square, MicroStrategy, Mass Mutual and PayPal are to name a few with their mammoth quantity of buys.

Not sure about your local fomo though.


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## Space Lynx (Jan 3, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> Institution investors have poured in. Square, MicroStrategy, Mass Mutual and PayPal are to name a few with their mammoth quantity of buys.
> 
> Not sure about your local fomo though.



Interesting, I mean taxes have to be paid on it no matter what, so I just don't see the advantage it has. Also, TransferWise exists, and that works very well and costs about the same for a transfer as Bitcoin does, while having more insurance/security if a bad actor comes into play, with Bitcoin you have no such security. So again, I just see no reason for the interest at the corporate level. 

I expect this time next year it will be back down to 9k a coin or so and corporate integration backing out from a failed experiment.


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## moproblems99 (Jan 3, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Interesting, I mean taxes have to be paid on it no matter what, so I just don't see the advantage it has.



Just like the stock market, you are paying taxes on money you are taking from stupid people.


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## Space Lynx (Jan 3, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> Just like the stock market, you are paying taxes on money you are taking from stupid people.



I have no issues with people wanting to invest in either of these things, I just find it odd personally. For me, I'd rather keep my money in the bank where it is traditionally and historically stable/safe/insured. Perhaps, that is because I do not have much money, I imagine ego inflates the more money you have, hence Jeff Bezos wanting to build a moon base, Elon Musk wanting to go to Mars, etc.


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## 300BaudBob (Jan 3, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> So Bitcoin hit above 33k per coin I read today...
> 
> What is the cause of this? my best guess is that world governments continue to print in ever record breaking amounts without having any plans in place to pay it back... keep raising that debt ceiling as the bi-partisan lingo goes...


My guess is with interest rates so low people are looking for something else to invest in er...gamble in.  Me, I'd rather buy gold...at least it has an industrial use.


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## Crash_Boat (Jan 3, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> Just like the stock market, you are paying taxes on money you are taking from stupid people.



HUH?


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## Space Lynx (Jan 3, 2021)

300BaudBob said:


> My guess is with interest rates so low people are looking for something else to invest in er...gamble in.  Me, I'd rather buy gold...at least it has an industrial use.



Vast majority of us humans don't have the excess money to allow investing, which was kind of my point regarding how ego increases the more wealth you have.


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## 300BaudBob (Jan 3, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Vast majority of us humans don't have the excess money to allow investing, which was kind of my point regarding how ego increases the more wealth you have.


And in the USA corporations are people too.
Edit: meaning I should probably have put "people" in quotes.


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## trog100 (Jan 3, 2021)

i find it a bit odd that all the big moves seem to be happening at the weekend.. i thought the big money institutions took that off.. he he

£35000 looks on the cards for today..??

trog

mining update.. my miners are now producing around $20 dollars per day up from the $11 dollars per day when i first switched them back on a couple of weeks back... etherium is now at $1000 dollars.. 

trog


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## ZenZimZaliben (Jan 4, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Vast majority of us humans don't have the excess money to allow investing, which was kind of my point regarding how ego increases the more wealth you have.


It is so true, well not the ego part so much, but certainly the "Money Begets Money part". It is very hard for someone with no wealth to invest in anything except survival. That isn't fair, but then again neither is life.

ETH is killing it! So glad I sold off some stock and bought ETH a couple years ago.


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## hat (Jan 5, 2021)

I'm wondering if it's going to continue to go up or crash at this point...


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## shashy (Jan 5, 2021)

How much do you think bitcoin is going to? I had some in the past but stupidly sold it all. Want to buy back in but i can't do it as it feels like i am being robbed due to how much lower it was when i first bought it.


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## xkm1948 (Jan 5, 2021)

hat said:


> I'm wondering if it's going to continue to go up or crash at this point...



Nations across the world are printing money to rapid devalue their currency, bitcoins will most likely go higher and higher to reflect the currency devalue going on right now.









						The Smartest Investors Are Buying Bitcoin -- Here's Why | The Motley Fool
					

The game-changing cryptocurrency's price is soaring -- and more gains could lie ahead.




					www.fool.com


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## ZenZimZaliben (Jan 5, 2021)

shashy said:


> How much do you think bitcoin is going to? I had some in the past but stupidly sold it all. Want to buy back in but i can't do it as it feels like i am being robbed due to how much lower it was when i first bought it.


I will go out on a limb and say (IMO) if everything stays the same on the global level then $50k isn't out of reach for this year. It may crash again though, but I think the floor is now way past 10k, and it will bounce up again.


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## trog100 (Jan 5, 2021)

its a little different now.. big money institutions are driving the price up this time around.. they are in it long term and are unlikely to be scared into panic selling.. 

trog


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## ZenZimZaliben (Jan 5, 2021)

Yeah many big companies have purchased 100m+ so that will add some stability.,


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## wolf (Jan 6, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> ETH is killing it!


I ordered an RTX3080 at launch and was lucky enough to get it then too. I had the sole intention of gaming on it till I went down the rabbit hole of seeing how well they can mine ETH, plus the kicker for me, I have solar power and it's summer in Australia. 

So I've been mining during daylight hours probably 5 days a week on average for 2 months now. Already at ~0.2 ETH, at this rate the 3080 will pay for itself sooner or later, plus it's still there to game with after hours.

Running 1830mhz@806mv for ~ 92.5mh/s @ 50-52c


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## trog100 (Jan 7, 2021)

well.. bitcoin just hit 40K an hour or so back.. its dropped back to 38K now.. it will be interesting to see how quickly it recovers and carries on its way upwards..

i recon 45K over the weekend.. eth maybe 1500.. my little stash left over from 2017 is growing quite nicely.. 

trog

ps.. my left over mining hardware.. is generating around $25 dollars per day running nicehash.. 1 x 2080ti and 8 x 1070 cards.. about 250 mh/s collectively..


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## phill (Jan 7, 2021)

Hey @trog100 

I thought you'd be back on it   Bitcoin and Eth have gone nuts this last week..  Mate got in touch and said that apparently it was a good idea I held the coin I had left over...  Went for over 600% what they where!  I was kinda happy with that  

Running NiceHash as well, trying to get in some older wallets which seem to be not open still which is a real pain...  Bit left in them too...  What are you getting Hashrates from your 2080 Ti and the 1070 cards by the way?  I've had some interesting results with my 480's again   Very impressed with those..  My 1080 Ti's, meh not so much sadly


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## wolf (Jan 7, 2021)

I'm in awe how much ETH has taken off, near tripled in value since I started mining around when I got my 3080. Really not a great investor tho so at this rate my plan is the long game, probably ride at least another crash and hopefully back through to another peak, if history is an indication.


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## trog100 (Jan 8, 2021)

phill said:


> Hey @trog100
> 
> I thought you'd be back on it   Bitcoin and Eth have gone nuts this last week..  Mate got in touch and said that apparently it was a good idea I held the coin I had left over...  Went for over 600% what they where!  I was kinda happy with that
> 
> Running NiceHash as well, trying to get in some older wallets which seem to be not open still which is a real pain...  Bit left in them too...  What are you getting Hashrates from your 2080 Ti and the 1070 cards by the way?  I've had some interesting results with my 480's again   Very impressed with those..  My 1080 Ti's, meh not so much sadly



hello phil.. 50 to 55 mh/s from the 2080ti about 25 mh/s from each 1070.. 

trog


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## phill (Jan 8, 2021)

I find it quite strange that my 480's are hitting about the same as your 1070..  The 1080 Ti is about 35MH I think...  It's a little more over the place than the 480, they seem to be very constant...

Have you used any different or special drivers for the cards Trog?  

I found with a setting in AMD's Drivers that changing it from Gaming to Compute, tripled the hashrate of the cards   I was blown away at that...


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## wolf (Jan 8, 2021)

I find it baffling that a GTX1080 does ~21.5 mh/s and a 1070 can do 25mh/s, I hear it's something about the memory?


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## Outback Bronze (Jan 8, 2021)

phill said:


> My 1080 Ti's, meh not so much sadly



You using the ETH PILL? This improves the hash rate a fair bit with 1080's and 1080Ti's



wolf said:


> I find it baffling that a GTX1080 does ~21.5 mh/s and a 1070 can do 25mh/s, I hear it's something about the memory?



Yeah you need the ETH PILL matey. I was getting like 34/6 MH/s with my 1080's. Ti's about 44 : )


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## trog100 (Jan 8, 2021)

wolf said:


> I find it baffling that a GTX1080 does ~21.5 mh/s and a 1070 can do 25mh/s, I hear it's something about the memory?



the memory needs to be clocked as high as it will go.. the max power can be reduced to 70%.. 34 mh/s sounds about right for a 1080.. 

trog


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## wolf (Jan 8, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> Yeah you need the ETH PILL matey. I was getting like 34/6 MH/s with my 1080's. Ti's about 44 : )


I can't tell if that's a serious thing or not, can you elaborate? if I could get another 10-15 mh/s out of my 1080 I'd do it.


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## Outback Bronze (Jan 8, 2021)

wolf said:


> I can't tell if that's a serious thing or not, can you elaborate? if I could get another 10-15 mh/s out of my 1080 I'd do it.


 
Yes I'm serious mate. Just google 1080's/Ti's  on the PILL.


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## wolf (Jan 8, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> Yes I'm serious mate. Just google 1080's/Ti's on the PILL.


Very interesting thanks for the lead!

Still, I'm not sure it'll work for me... my GTX1080 is in a system by itself, running ubuntu so not sure if the PILL works in Linux? not only that but also it is timer'd to turn on/off and start/stop the miner corresponding with my solar power, as it wouldn't be worth it for what I pay per kwh overnight...


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## moproblems99 (Jan 8, 2021)

wolf said:


> I'm in awe how much ETH has taken off, near tripled in value since I started mining around when I got my 3080. Really not a great investor tho so at this rate my plan is the long game, probably ride at least another crash and hopefully back through to another peak, if history is an indication.



This peak might be one you don't want to miss.  I also don't think this peak is coming for minute.


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## wolf (Jan 8, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> This peak might be one you don't want to miss. I also don't think this peak is coming for minute.


Definitely, mining 24/7 now on my 3080 but it mines at ~4.5x the rate for ~1.5x the wattage


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## phill (Jan 8, 2021)

wolf said:


> Very interesting thanks for the lead!
> 
> Still, I'm not sure it'll work for me... my GTX1080 is in a system by itself, running ubuntu so not sure if the PILL works in Linux? not only that but also it is timer'd to turn on/off and start/stop the miner corresponding with my solar power, as it wouldn't be worth it for what I pay per kwh overnight...


I'm the same, I don't mine 24/7.  If I can get my miner setup next day or so for the conservatory hopefully, it'll warm it up out there a bit with the two cards mining away but that would the only reason I'd do it


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## moproblems99 (Jan 8, 2021)

wolf said:


> Definitely, mining 24/7 now on my 3080 but it mines at ~4.5x the rate for ~1.5x the wattage



I think I am going to sacrifice cyberpunk for a while and move my Vega 56 to mining.

Another bummer.....no more GPUs for a while.  Kinda wish I bought an early scalper.


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## phill (Jan 8, 2021)

wolf said:


> Definitely, mining 24/7 now on my 3080 but it mines at ~4.5x the rate for ~1.5x the wattage


What rates are you hitting with your 3080 mate?


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## wolf (Jan 8, 2021)

phill said:


> What rates are you hitting with your 3080 mate?


Got a few settings I'm playing with for mh/s : watt, but the lowest is about 88, highest is around 93, given the power / temp savings I'm inclined to go with the lower end where its at about 88-90 mh/s @ 220w


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## ZenZimZaliben (Jan 8, 2021)

Notice how all the BTC haters and envious aren't posting in here anymore...but wait for the dip they will be back. Until then enjoy the silence and the profits!! And if/when it dips, get more.


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## trog100 (Jan 8, 2021)

there may be a big pull back but its long way away.. big institutions are buying to hold.. a possible 300K per bitcoin.. anyone that believes this aint gonna sell.. why the f-ck should they..

the people buying bitcoin now aint looking for a quick profit.. they are looking to buy and hodle.. even the miners are not selling any more there aint enough bitcoin to meet demand.. the price just has to keep going up..

trog


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## Robert Bourgoin (Jan 8, 2021)

Going to put my old MSI 1080 to work, my old asus x99 gathering dust,  time to put it to work.
I also have a GTX 580 gathering dust, not sure if I can team them up.


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## phill (Jan 9, 2021)

wolf said:


> Got a few settings I'm playing with for mh/s : watt, but the lowest is about 88, highest is around 93, given the power / temp savings I'm inclined to go with the lower end where its at about 88-90 mh/s @ 220w


I'm about 25MH with my 480's, hitting about 65w according to GPU-Z....  I think that it's not recording the full GPU power though, so I'm guessing it possibly nearer maybe 90w for the full card?  But with two cards, a full system, I'm pulling about 260w..  I can't remember off hand what it's pulling with WCG running as well sadly (with my 1700X CPU system).  

With my 2700 system, it's around 400w with the two 480s same settings as the 1700X system, 65w reported for the 480s which I'm very pleased with as it doesn't seem to affect the MH/s rate..  Which is great


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## KainXS (Jan 9, 2021)

I'm wondering if I should mine on my 3070 is it worth it now?


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## wolf (Jan 9, 2021)

phill said:


> I'm about 25MH with my 480's, hitting about 65w according to GPU-Z....  I think that it's not recording the full GPU power though, so I'm guessing it possibly nearer maybe 90w for the full card?  But with two cards, a full system, I'm pulling about 260w..  I can't remember off hand what it's pulling with WCG running as well sadly (with my 1700X CPU system).
> 
> With my 2700 system, it's around 400w with the two 480s same settings as the 1700X system, 65w reported for the 480s which I'm very pleased with as it doesn't seem to affect the MH/s rate..  Which is great


Not bad at all! those polaris cards are great. I was trying to get one months ago and it wasn't working out so I abandoned it, but one would've bought itself almost twice over now.

I've settled on just 70% power limit and +500 memory, card clocks around 900-1000mhz and gets about that ~90mh/s mark reporting 224w. Whole system pulling 280-290w from the wall socket 


KainXS said:


> I'm wondering if I should mine on my 3070 is it worth it now?


I'd say so, if you get a decent rate for power at least. I'd be power limiting it too.


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## hat (Jan 9, 2021)

Heh, yeah I tried looking at prices on RX480/580 cards earlier today... and... ouch. Even the midrange crap of yesteryear commands a premium now.


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## trog100 (Jan 9, 2021)

KainXS said:


> I'm wondering if I should mine on my 3070 is it worth it now?



about 65 mh/s i think..

trog


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## xkm1948 (Jan 10, 2021)

trog100 said:


> about 65 mh/s i think..
> 
> trog



How's your 3080 doing in mining?

With my 2nd 3090 coming in, I am tempted to throw it on an old rig just for some extra $


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## trog100 (Jan 10, 2021)

xkm1948 said:


> How's your 3080 doing in mining?
> 
> With my 2nd 3090 coming in, I am tempted to throw it on an old rig just for some extra $



its still in its box i havnt got round to installing it yet but they do around 90mh/s..

my rig needs taking outside for a good dust blow out before i put the new card in.. 

trog


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## hat (Jan 11, 2021)

It seems like the price of BTC is currently going down right now, yet profitability is going up. Hmm...


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## KainXS (Jan 11, 2021)

trog100 said:


> about 65 mh/s i think..
> 
> trog


 I'm getting about 55 to 60 on my 3070 tuf undervolted, picked up a gigabyte 3080 also but gave not installed it.


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## kayjay010101 (Jan 11, 2021)

KainXS said:


> I'm getting about 55 to 60 on my 3070 tuf undervolted, picked up a gigabyte 3080 also but gave not installed it.


Getting around the same on my TUF OC 3070, with a 60% power limit, -502 core and +1400 mem. Anywhere from 55 to 60 MH/s. That card is earning me 4 EUR per day, after electricity
Also put some of my 24/7 servers to do some CPU mining, even my old xeons (2683 v4) are actually profitable after electricity costs! (only 1 eur per day profit per whole CPU though )


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## Jetster (Jan 11, 2021)

Bitcoin Plummets as Miners Sell Inventory, Spot Markets Panic
					

Bitcoin fell sharply early on Monday, having failed to establish a foothold above $40,000 over the weekend.




					www.coindesk.com


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## trog100 (Jan 11, 2021)

KainXS said:


> I'm getting about 55 to 60 on my 3070 tuf undervolted, picked up a gigabyte 3080 also but gave not installed it.



your 3080 should produce 85 to 90.. 

trog


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## KainXS (Jan 12, 2021)

I haven't even tried the 3080 yet, gonna try it by the end of the week.


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## phill (Jan 12, 2021)

I'd love some 3 series cards, but I can't see anything that's completely over priced and I'm not paying more than I have to...  If they have a sale on, I best make sure the credit card is away!! lol

The 4 480's (total of 6), the 2 1080 Ti's I've got going on is giving me about 165MH/s which for older cards isn't too bad.  I've a pair of 295 X2's, a 5700XT and a 1070 not doing much at the moment.  I did have another 1080 Ti, but I gave that too a mate, but I might ask him to join in! lol   That one is water cooled so temps will be nice and chilled


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## Space Lynx (Jan 12, 2021)

phill said:


> I'd love some 3 series cards, but I can't see anything that's completely over priced and I'm not paying more than I have to...  If they have a sale on, I best make sure the credit card is away!! lol
> 
> The 4 480's (total of 6), the 2 1080 Ti's I've got going on is giving me about 165MH/s which for older cards isn't too bad.  I've a pair of 295 X2's, a 5700XT and a 1070 not doing much at the moment.  I did have another 1080 Ti, but I gave that too a mate, but I might ask him to join in! lol   That one is water cooled so temps will be nice and chilled



what is it you all are mining, ethereum?


----------



## phill (Jan 12, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> what is it you all are mining, ethereum?


I'm using Nicehash for the moment, I'm going to be mining Eth as a mate and I are going to get a script going like we did before and see how that goes...  I hope that we'll be able to get a few coins in but we'll see


----------



## trog100 (Jan 12, 2021)

nicehash is mining eth it just converts it to bitcoin..

but as has been said before assuming people are not cashing out straight away its all about tomorrows prices and not todays.. which will go up the most bitcoin or etherium..  ??

for what its worth my nicehash hashrate has dropped significantly over the last day or so.. maybe by around 25%

trog


----------



## phill (Jan 12, 2021)

trog100 said:


> nicehash is mining eth it just converts it to bitcoin..
> 
> but as has been said before assuming people are not cashing out straight away its all about tomorrows prices and not todays.. which will go up the most bitcoin or etherium..  ??
> 
> ...


I haven't noticed a difference in the hash rate Trog, what's happened to yours??  I've just had two 480's going on so far I'm trying to get an idea of power useage and pay out from the two cards (which I know is not going to be thousands or even hundreds, I'm not disillusioned)


----------



## kayjay010101 (Jan 12, 2021)

phill said:


> I haven't noticed a difference in the hash rate Trog, what's happened to yours??  I've just had two 480's going on so far I'm trying to get an idea of power useage and pay out from the two cards (which I know is not going to be thousands or even hundreds, I'm not disillusioned)


Yeah my 3070's hashrate has stayed pretty constant the last 3 days or so. Only blip was the rejected shares yesterday but a restart fixed that and it only affected EU servers.


----------



## Colddecked (Jan 12, 2021)

phill said:


> I'd love some 3 series cards, but I can't see anything that's completely over priced and I'm not paying more than I have to...  If they have a sale on, I best make sure the credit card is away!! lol
> 
> The 4 480's (total of 6), the 2 1080 Ti's I've got going on is giving me about 165MH/s which for older cards isn't too bad.  I've a pair of 295 X2's, a 5700XT and a 1070 not doing much at the moment.  I did have another 1080 Ti, but I gave that too a mate, but I might ask him to join in! lol   That one is water cooled so temps will be nice and chilled



Definitely get that 5700xt in your mining rig.  If you replace a 480, you could get close to 200 MH/s...


----------



## phill (Jan 12, 2021)

Colddecked said:


> Definitely get that 5700xt in your mining rig.  If you replace a 480, you could get close to 200 MH/s...


I'll have a separate rig for the 5700XT   Been looking at a couple of them to replace the 480s at some point, but that's a future plan which I'm not in a rush to go and do anything about yet lol


----------



## Colddecked (Jan 13, 2021)

phill said:


> I'll have a separate rig for the 5700XT   Been looking at a couple of them to replace the 480s at some point, but that's a future plan which I'm not in a rush to go and do anything about yet lol



True, but you should get it up and running asap to take advantage of the current situation.


----------



## phill (Jan 13, 2021)

If I had the time!!   I'm hoping to get somewhere with it this weekend but we'll see..... lol


----------



## KainXS (Jan 14, 2021)

my 3080 was only getting 84mh/s with the stock bios but after flashing the asus tuf bios i get 90-93 now for some reason?


----------



## phill (Jan 14, 2021)

KainXS said:


> my 3080 was only getting 84mh/s with the stock bios but after flashing the asus tuf bios i get 90-93 now for some reason?


Impressive   Did you manage to get a lower power usage with the card being flashed at all?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 14, 2021)

This is getting pretty wild.








						Coinranking | Cryptocurrency Price List - Top 50 Coins Today
					

View the list with all cryptocurrency prices of today. View live values of Bitcoin, Ethereum and thousands more.




					coinranking.com
				






So much for GPU's being a decent price this year... Ethereum is skyrocketing making GPU mining yields viable once more. Let's all cross our fingers that they change the algorithm again to make GPU usage useless.


----------



## sepheronx (Jan 14, 2021)

I may just pre order a gigabyte 3070 Eagle as it's $730 CAD (so MSRP for us Canucks) before things get out of control.


----------



## xkm1948 (Jan 14, 2021)

Is nicehash the only one? Seems pretty bad payout. $5~$6 per 24h for a single 3090


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 14, 2021)

xkm1948 said:


> View attachment 183940
> 
> Is nicehash the only one? Seems pretty bad payout. $5~$6 per 24h for a single 3090



I think the idea is that the price will continue to go up, so that what you mine now will be worth more than you realize right now, so mine and hodl is the idea I think. I'm still debating if I want to mine or not, I don't want to shorten lifespan of my rx 6800, as I love gaming... so yeah.  Don't think I will.


----------



## kayjay010101 (Jan 14, 2021)

xkm1948 said:


> View attachment 183940
> 
> Is nicehash the only one? Seems pretty bad payout. $5~$6 per 24h for a single 3090


You'll want to limit your power to about 300W though and also do a hefty memory OC to actually get profit. You're about 15MH/s shy of what you should be getting, and using 40W more than you should. My 3070 profits about $4 per 24H (49% power limit [117W], -502 core and +1200 mem)

A 3090 is the 'best' card for mining right now just pure performance-wise, but at $2000+ it's not good per dollar. The people actually profiting are using multiple lower end cards like the RX580 8GBs (or ASICs). A set of 6 of those is about 100*6= 600W of power usage. At 31MH/s each 6 of them equates to about 186MH/s, which is almost 2x that of the 3090, and at about $300 a pop they're still cheaper than a 3090. Depending on electricity costs they might be a lot more worth it compared to a 3090 (which is rated at 300W for max efficiency according to Nicehash).

The best card right now seems to be the 3060 Ti as you can get about 110W from one card and it outputs almost 60MH/s (so 2x of these should equal a max efficiency 3090, at half the cost and less power usage!). At my electricity costs of about 0.03 USD/KWh, the ROI of one 3060 Ti is just over half a year. After that it's about $120 profit per month. I've got two of these cards pre-ordered and should be coming in next month. The 3060 might become an enticing option if the MSRP actually is upheld somewhat (doubtful), but the limited memory bandwidth might mean a significant reduction in hashrate, so we'll have to see. 

Nicehash isn't the only option btw. You could always actually mine (nicehash isn't technically mining) coins yourself. Nicehash is usually the 2nd best payout though out of all GPU mining-related activities, depending on the GPU, and it's by far the easiest and most user-friendly setup.


----------



## phill (Jan 14, 2021)

xkm1948 said:


> View attachment 183940
> 
> Is nicehash the only one? Seems pretty bad payout. $5~$6 per 24h for a single 3090


There's other pools you can mine from, I'm waiting for my mate to setup one so we can move over to them as I think they'll have better payouts as Nicehash takes a slice each payout.  

Also, definitely limit your power and tweak the card   Maximise the profit if that's what you wish to do with it.  Don't try and max overclock it, just let it claimly plod along, save the card, save your electric and earn a little whilst your doing it.  Balls the wall max speed and such, will only end badly under a 247 load like this..  Exactly the same way I do things for WCG and FAH, relax the cards settings, limit the power and let it plod...  There's no rush...


----------



## Colddecked (Jan 14, 2021)

I


xkm1948 said:


> View attachment 183940
> 
> Is nicehash the only one? Seems pretty bad payout. $5~$6 per 24h for a single 3090



The actual payouts on nicehash are better since there are profit spikes.  Plus their integration with coinbase helps save with cashing out when you need to.  They've  done a good job winning me back since the 2017 hack.

If you plan on HODLing, then look into mining directly.


----------



## trog100 (Jan 14, 2021)

if you already own the hardware mine with it by all means but dont waste money buying it.. just buy some eth and watch it go up.. 

back in 2017 i spent £4000 building a mining machine.. i mostly did it for fun but if i had have spent that 4K buying one single bitcoin that one bitcoin would now be worth 40 k..

i currently own roughly 1/3 of a bitcoin.. mined back in 2017/18.. it now worth about 13k..  i would far sooner own one whole bitcoin now worth 40k.. 

i did buy some eth and lite coin back then.. i spent about 7K.. that is now worth about 18k.. 

i currently have 1 x 2080ti and 8 x 1070 running nice hash.. collectively they are bringing in roughly 20 dollars per day.. not bad for doing nothing but it does look a bit silly when i see my eth stash going up by 2k a day.. it did just go down by 2k a day but its now back up.. he he

one eth now costs roughly $1200 dollars.. a couple of weeks back it was worth 600 dollars.. as i have said just buy the coin.. mining is fun but thats about all.. 

trog


----------



## xkm1948 (Jan 14, 2021)

My settings was mostly for my cuda work load, that is with 450watt power limit lol.

Guess I should try again with vram speed dialed up and power limit dialed in around 300watt.


----------



## trog100 (Jan 15, 2021)

there is no reason to assume bitcoin or etherium have reached their cap.. i think both of them will go much much higher..

as for the good old dollar.. massive money printing "stimulus" will destroy its value.. big money is moving into bitcoin and etherium.. its seen as hard money that cannot be destroyed by central banks or governments.. the US government is busy printing the dollar into oblivion and it ant gonna stop.. as the dollar dies bitcoin will grow..

how much it grows is anybodies guess.. some say an awful lot.. i tend to agree with them..

trog


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jan 15, 2021)

It will not stay in that range for long. IMO I would not be surprised if BTC hits 60k by year end.

Lobbyist will form in favor of BTC and essentially "buy" the government officials so they representative can get their slice of the pie.  Because sadly that is the way the world works unless you actually believe our elected representatives really care about us and would never take a bribe...I mean a fat check from Lobbyist to fund their "campaign. Besides the Federal Reserve is the biggest scam ever against the American people. Imagine a non-gov entity with the sole responsibility of prinint money for profit and that's the FED Reserve. (Ownership: Controlled by member private banks but not "owned by anyone".)


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 21, 2021)

just as I predicted   fiat will never let itself be undermined as it is the source of true power for the treasury, which in turn is the source of true power for all world governments.  glad I didn't waste my hardware mining it. it will be worthless in 5-6 months when it becomes overtaxed and/or banned from all businesses allowing its usage.









						Treasury nominee Yellen is looking to curtail use of cryptocurrency
					

Yellen argues many cryptocurrencies are used "mainly for illicit financing."




					arstechnica.com


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 21, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> just as I predicted   fiat will never let itself be undermined as it is the source of true power for the treasury, which in turn is the source of true power for all world governments.  glad I didn't waste my hardware mining it. it will be worthless in 5-6 months when it becomes overtaxed and/or banned from all businesses allowing its usage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hope the whole world does this. It needs to stop.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 21, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I hope the whole world does this. It needs to stop.



America being the number 1 market it will def hurt it a lot. I imagine if a country becomes "too friendly" with cryptocurrency, USA will even require it be banned before good trade deals. Fiat is where government power comes from, so this is only the natural process taking place, just takes time. It's just a shame government is slow, because it would have been nice to do this a long time ago when the first exchanges opened up, the damage to the Earth needs to stop in many forms. Lots of farmers are now moving to regernative farming, solar, wind, and Biden is even on board with maybe one more nuclear power plant from what I read. Crypto needs to just stop, its been hurting emissions for far to long. It's one of the smaller actors for sure in emissions as a whole, but it still plays a role. It seems to me a lot of industries are improving, most cars I see now get 40-45 mpg and they are not even hybrids. 

So yeah, we are all in this together or we aren't. Government is going to have to step up and ban the exchanges at some point, I think it will happen in due time, Yellen definitely has her eye on crypto, which is a good thing imo.


----------



## toilet pepper (Jan 21, 2021)

phill said:


> Impressive  Did you manage to get a lower power usage with the card being flashed at all?


I'm getting 93mhs with my 3080 ventus. 1100 vcore locked at the lowest voltage setting in afterburner then +500 mem overclock using pheonixminer. The vram is sucking around 150watts alone and total board power is 210 watts. 

It is possible to get 100mhs using a 3080. I've done it by using 1200 mem overclock but the memory is using 180 watts and thats for just 50 cents of profit. Not worth it considering that the vram is cooking itself. I dont think any thermal pad is that good to transfer that much heat to a heatsink. If heatsinks were glued to the ram maybe I'd risk it.

Also make sure there's thermal pads as well at the back of the ram chips. They get hot on both sides.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 21, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> America being the number 1 market it will def hurt it a lot.


CyrptoCoin needs to die, quickly. It will hurt some honest people, but it will make criminals lives harder. Heavily regulating it would have the same effect.


----------



## phill (Jan 21, 2021)

toilet pepper said:


> I'm getting 93mhs with my 3080 ventus. 1100 vcore locked at the lowest voltage setting in afterburner then +500 mem overclock using pheonixminer. The vram is sucking around 150watts alone and total board power is 210 watts.
> 
> It is possible to get 100mhs using a 3080. I've done it by using 1200 mem overclock but the memory is using 180 watts and thats for just 50 cents of profit. Not worth it considering that the vram is cooking itself. I dont think any thermal pad is that good to transfer that much heat to a heatsink. If heatsinks were glued to the ram maybe I'd risk it.
> 
> Also make sure there's thermal pads as well at the back of the ram chips. They get hot on both sides.


It's all about stability and longivity   There's no point burning your card out you worked hard for to have it die in a few weeks cos of a few more MH...  I run with the lowest power and vcore I can on the cards, I don't try to use more power than I need to and I make sure that it works..  

Having a few issues with AMD drivers self updating which is killing it but it is what it is...  Not sure what is causing it tho so need to look up about it..


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jan 21, 2021)

Cypto


lynx29 said:


> just as I predicted   fiat will never let itself be undermined as it is the source of true power for the treasury, which in turn is the source of true power for all world governments.  glad I didn't waste my hardware mining it. it will be worthless in 5-6 months when it becomes overtaxed and/or banned from all businesses allowing its usage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That, if made law, would do nothing.

Also thanks to our glorious new president elect this will just help lower the price for a little until people learn more about off-shore exchanges and vpns. LOL.



$10 Billion Worth of BTC is Used Illicitly, Compared to $1.4 Trillion in USD​


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Jan 22, 2021)

The Bit Short: Inside Crypto’s Doomsday Machine
					

This is the story of a Bitcoin trade — the most financially impactful trade I’ve ever made in my life. It’s also the story of the…




					crypto-anonymous-2021.medium.com
				











> *Me:* You don’t own any crypto do you? I’m concerned some of the exchanges in the ecosystem might be fraudulent.
> 
> *Bob:* I actually have a whole bunch of crypto on this exchange called Bybit. Do you know if that’s one of the risky ones?
> 
> ...



----

Unfortunately, this "USDT" Tether thing has been going strong for... at least 3 or 4 years now. It always feels like the USDT bubble will burst, but nothing ever seems to happen.

There are legitimate pockets of cryptocoins. Coinbase for example:





Mostly USD / Euro / Pounds. There's a bit of that Coinbase USCoin in there, but having a minority amount of your own chuck-e-cheese money in there isn't necessarily a bad thing. The problem is when USDT overwhelmingly covers the market: it becomes clear that USDT is controlling cryptocoin's prices in general.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 22, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Cypto
> 
> That, if made law, would do nothing.
> 
> ...



_During a U.S. Senate hearing on Tuesday, Janet Yellen, President Joe Biden’s pick to head the U.S. Treasury, expressed concerns that cryptocurrencies could be used to finance illegal activities.

That followed a call last week from *European Central Bank President Christine Lagarde for global regulation of bitcoin.*









						Bitcoin heads for worst weekly loss in months
					

Bitcoin wavered on Friday and was heading toward its sharpest weekly drop since September, as worries over regulation and its frothy rally drove a pullback from recent record highs.




					www.reuters.com
				



_
and Bitcoin's price just tumbled hard, and will continue to fall over next few months, as I predicted from the beginning

note the bold print. China is also on board with this from what I have read as well.  it will take awhile, but the fact Yellen mentioned on day 1 means quite a lot.


----------



## trog100 (Jan 22, 2021)

money printers go brrrrr.. biden and yelland will just crank them up a gear or two.. the USD  is toast.. 

trog


----------



## Metroid (Jan 22, 2021)

I advise any of you that invest on cryptocoins to get out right now. This will crash very hard next few days, any rise you see is a bulltrap.


----------



## ppn (Jan 22, 2021)

Yeah maybe, but i converted my ethers to cash for now. It may go 2k but it coould drop to 200, and i will buy back 10 times more what i previously had. But for now it looks traders are deliberately trying to hit my stop loss thresholds. That is where all the money is made. But mining may not be dead yet for a while. They will keep the demand on video cards insanely high for nothing for this piece of shenanigans coins.


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Jan 22, 2021)

ppn said:


> Yeah maybe, but i converted my ethers to cash for now. It may go 2k but it coould drop to 200, and i will buy back 10 times more what i previously had. But for now it looks thraders are deliberately trying to hit my stop loss thresholds. That is where all the money is made. But mining may not be dead yet for a while. They will keep the demand on video cards insanely high for nothing for this piece of shenanigans coins.



The problem with the USDT-causes a crash (eventually) theory is that USDT could very well *spike* the price of BTC / ETH. The risk kind of plays both ways.

If USDT + the entire "fake BTC" market suddenly realizes that their money is fake, they could try to get real BTC in their actual wallets, causing BTC to spike while USDT falls. The question is what happens to the BTC -> real USD price in the meantime?


----------



## mouacyk (Jan 22, 2021)

Metroid said:


> I advise any of you that invest on cryptocoins to get out right now. This will crash very hard next few days, any rise you see is a bulltrap.


So we finally get vidya cards, or will NVidia and AMD go bust with the the burst too?


----------



## trog100 (Jan 22, 2021)

i think the whole thing is being manipulated by large players.. they dont trade the market they make the market..

i still think the general trend is upwards.. the large players want it to go up.. they just play games along the way..

trog


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 23, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> _During a U.S. Senate hearing on Tuesday, Janet Yellen, President Joe Biden’s pick to head the U.S. Treasury, expressed concerns that cryptocurrencies could be used to finance illegal activities.
> 
> That followed a call last week from *European Central Bank President Christine Lagarde for global regulation of bitcoin.*
> 
> ...


Crash cryptocoin, crash hard!



Metroid said:


> I advise any of you that invest on cryptocoins to get out right now. This will crash very hard next few days, any rise you see is a bulltrap.


Good advice!


----------



## jjnissanpatfan (Jan 23, 2021)

Good thing I found a GPU for 40K....might of invested in Bitcoin if it do not go to a GPU.  Now what to do with my 401K the next few years might be shaky!


----------



## Hardcore Games (Jan 25, 2021)

Yellen said illicit digital coins which drove valuations way way down


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 25, 2021)

Hardcore Games said:


> Yellen said illicit digital coins which drove valuations way way down



It's not so much that, but that the IMF and Yellen are both on board with global regulation of crypto - and also probably higher taxes on exchanges for fiat/crypto.  I also fully expect the left wing to try and impose taxes on top of that in defense of the environment, so sure you can hoddle all you want, but if you use crypto at a business, or exchange it for fiat, expect some hefty taxes in the future, its pretty much set in stone it will happen.


----------



## hat (Jan 25, 2021)

I'm not sure how illicit it is when it's now even being backed by Visa in the US, through the Coinbase card. Sounds like somebody just doesn't like it.


----------



## trog100 (Jan 25, 2021)

hat said:


> I'm not sure how illicit it is when it's now even being backed by Visa in the US, through the Coinbase card. Sounds like somebody just doesn't like it.



some like it some dont.. its obvious from the comment which camp people are in..

eth seems the one on the rise at the moment.. bitcoin seems to have lost some of its steam.. my little eth stash is currently going up by 2K a week over the last month..

in fact my little crypto stash has earned me 16 k over the last month and my mining efforts are earning me about $600 dollars per month..

i cant complain.. he he..

trog


----------



## Vya Domus (Jan 25, 2021)

Metroid said:


> This will crash very hard next few days.



And after a while it will explode and then crash again and so on.

See, what some of these people that are maintaining this cycle are hoping is that eventually crypto will become the defacto type of currency and that event will catch them with a boatload of cash. What they wont accept however is that none of these coins will be used if or when that era begins, current implementations aren’t even close to being useable for technical reason let alone legal ones.

Crypto is still a commodity not a currency.

Anyway what’s particularly funny is how the pro crypto people come out of the woodwork every time a coin hits an all time record to boast about their gains and advantages and become oddly quiet after they inevitably crash. I wonder what’s the matter, is crypto not the future when you can’t make profit trading it for cash ?


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 25, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> And after a while it will explode and then crash again and so on.
> 
> See, what some of these people that are maintaining this cycle are hoping is that eventually crypto will become the defacto type of currency and that event will catch them with a boatload of cash. What they wont accept however is that none of these coins will be used if or when that era begins, current implementations aren’t even close to being useable for technical reason let alone legal reasons.
> 
> Crypto is still a commodity not a currency.



PayPal allowing the use of Bitcoin instantly is a game changer so I have to disagree with you on this point, however:
It's also important to note that the companies that do allow it to be used to buy stuff have to report everything to treasury of that country, you will be doing extensive tax filing and paying taxes, and if they find out you didn't report it you are in for a fun ride of fees and penalties. Also, when they do pass more taxes on it, which they will - Yellen and IMF chief have already said as much, those gains from hoddling will diminish. I bet they end up taxing it so heavy and use crime and green new deal as an excuse for it, making it similar to the lottery in USA, where your take home ends up only being like 30% what you originally had. lol so yeah have fun hoddlers.  keep on waiting to see what happens 

oh and if your thinking you can just wait for them to announce new taxes and it takes awhile to pass it in congress bla bla bla, nope, forget that idea Coinbase will be so overloaded and the other exchanges they will have to shut down all trades until after the vote, lol  we already seen this happen before.  keep on hoddlin 

or you could save the longevity of your hardware and just enjoy gaming like myself and stop it with the nonsense. but you miners do you, meh. its all stupid imo.



trog100 said:


> some like it some dont.. its obvious from the comment which camp people are in..
> 
> eth seems the one on the rise at the moment.. bitcoin seems to have lost some of its steam.. my little eth stash is currently going up by 2K a week over the last month..
> 
> ...



it hasn't earned you that until you pay your taxes on it and get it in fiat  still can't buy stuff on paypal with ETH.  so not as easy as bitcoin in that regard.


----------



## Vya Domus (Jan 25, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> PayPal allowing the use of Bitcoin instantly is a game changer so I have to disagree with you on this point, however:
> It's also important to note that the companies that do allow it to be used to buy stuff have to report everything to treasury of that country, you will be doing extensive tax filing and paying taxes, and if they find out you didn't report it you are in for a fun ride of fees and penalties. Also, when they do pass more taxes on it, which they will - Yellen and IMF chief have already said as much, those gains from hoddling will diminish. I bet they end up taxing it so heavy and use crime and green new deal as an excuse for it, making it similar to the lottery in USA, where your take home ends up only being like 30% what you originally had. lol so yeah have fun hoddlers.  keep on waiting to see what happens
> 
> oh and if your thinking you can just wait for them to announce new taxes and it takes awhile to pass it in congress bla bla bla, nope, forget that idea Coinbase will be so overloaded and the other exchanges they will have to shut down all trades until after the vote, lol  we already seen this happen before.  keep on hoddlin
> ...



If it's taxed then that means they're treating it as a commodity not a currency, like I said.


----------



## dorsetknob (Jan 25, 2021)

" Currency or Commodity " if its Traded then its Taxable   ....at some point.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 25, 2021)

dorsetknob said:


> " Currency or Commodity " if its Traded then its Taxable   ....at some point.


True!


----------



## Metroid (Jan 25, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> And after a while it will explode and then crash again and so on.
> 
> See, what some of these people that are maintaining this cycle are hoping is that eventually crypto will become the defacto type of currency and that event will catch them with a boatload of cash. What they wont accept however is that none of these coins will be used if or when that era begins, current implementations aren’t even close to being useable for technical reason let alone legal ones.
> 
> ...


yeah, they dont talk about the crash to hehell, they only talk about when a coin hits ath. They love calling new idiots to keep the scam up. People should be very careful investing in cryptocoins right now, now is time to sell not to buy because when this thing crashes, you will not even be able to sell it high anymore by the time you decide to sell, its already down 50% and then you decide not to sell and then it keeps crashing, when you see is already down 90%, in 2018 the crash was 95% for most coins, in simple numbers, it crashed from 100 usd to 5 usd and the coin stays there for years before it goes up again.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 25, 2021)

Metroid said:


> yeah, they dont talk about the crash to hehell, they only talk about when a coin hits ath. They love calling new idiots to keep the scam up. People should be very careful investing in cryptocoins right now, now is time to sell not to buy because when this thing crashes, you will not even be able to sell it high anymore by the time you decide to sell, its already down 50% and then you decide not to sell and then it keeps crashing, when you see is already down 90%, in 2018 the crash was 95% for most coins, in simple numbers, it crashed from 100 usd to 5 usd and the coin stays there for years before it goes up again.



the problem is greed and envy, its no different to the stock market or CEO's of companies, they can never stop the rat race once they get a taste of it. personally, thanks to studying ancient philosophy daily for several years, IF i ever get a nice break in life with an influx of cash im calling it quits right there, retiring and enjoying my hobbies near a nice pond/stream/log cabin on the outskirts of some small town.  that's the life baby ~ screw the rat race, life is to short, its a shame so many of them, regardless of occupation don't ever see that. they buy the 60 grand tesla for image instead of the 12 grand ford focus and retiring earlier.  meh.  i could care less what others do, i know my path. this is the way ~


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jan 25, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> If it's taxed then that means they're treating it as a commodity not a currency, like I said.



If I hold British Sterling (or any other counties currency) and it appreciates against the dollor and I sell it...i get taxed. So that logic doesn't hold water at all. Currency can be considered a commodity if you are using it as such. Same as gold way back in the day. It could be used as a value store, or you could trade it for goods. Same exact senario with crypto.


----------



## R-T-B (Jan 25, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I hope the whole world does this. It needs to stop.


I don't honestly see a justification to stop it beyond "can't get my gpus," which amounts to a distribution issue more than anything.  Retailers need to figure out order limits and queueing...



Metroid said:


> yeah, they dont talk about the crash to hehell,


Yes, they do.


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 25, 2021)

The False Narrative Of Bitcoin’s Role In Illicit Activity
					

The majority of cryptocurrency is not used for criminal activity. According to an excerpt from Chainalysis’ 2021 report, in 2020, criminal activity only represented .34% of all cryptocurrency transaction volume.




					www.forbes.com


----------



## R-T-B (Jan 25, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Anyway what’s particularly funny is how the pro crypto people come out of the woodwork every time a coin hits an all time record to boast about their gains and advantages and become oddly quiet after they inevitably crash. I wonder what’s the matter, is crypto not the future when you can’t make profit trading it for cash ?


I've never used crypto as anything but a money transmitter.  Explain me.


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 25, 2021)

Metroid said:


> yeah, they dont talk about the crash to hehell, they only talk about when a coin hits ath. They love calling new idiots to keep the scam up. People should be very careful investing in cryptocoins right now, now is time to sell not to buy because when this thing crashes, you will not even be able to sell it high anymore by the time you decide to sell, its already down 50% and then you decide not to sell and then it keeps crashing, when you see is already down 90%, in 2018 the crash was 95% for most coins, in simple numbers, it crashed from 100 usd to 5 usd and the coin stays there for years before it goes up again.


False. The big holders of BTC buy up all the coins sellers like you dump at the first sign of a crash. Look back a few years and you will see that the trend is ever upwards, this isn't going to change now that it has gone legit and mainstream.


----------



## Metroid (Jan 26, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> False. The big holders of BTC buy up all the coins sellers like you dump at the first sign of a crash. Look back a few years and you will see that the trend is ever upwards, this isn't going to change now that it has gone legit and mainstream.


I trade since 2011, traders know who I'm, I know what I'm talking about it here, you must check charts and history of bitcoin then you will understand what I'm saying it here.


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 26, 2021)

So? Plenty of people trade, including myself. The point is long term growth is still projected to keep growing. You have to be a special kind of idiot to buy a volatile yet stably growing currency then sell it in the short term at the first sign of a downwards trend.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 26, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> The False Narrative Of Bitcoin’s Role In Illicit Activity
> 
> 
> The majority of cryptocurrency is not used for criminal activity. According to an excerpt from Chainalysis’ 2021 report, in 2020, criminal activity only represented .34% of all cryptocurrency transaction volume.
> ...



Doesn't matter what this article says, the people in power who make the laws and tax rates, Yellen and IMF head and Congress being left wing and wanting green tax on this stuff, means your value will depreciate in due time, so hoddl all you want, the day of juicy taxes are incoming whether you like it or not.  Nothing undermines Fiat, nothing   world governments would never allow their main source of power to be undermined and cryptocurrency has been doing it for a long time, Yellen is just using crime as a talking point, but the truth is about power.  I assure you, BTC and all crypto will be so heavily taxed in the future (cant say when, 6 months from now, 3 months, maybe 5 years, who knows) but it will be of that I am certain, I expect when that day comes of higher tax exchanges etc even companies like PayPal will pull out of crypto lol


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 26, 2021)

We'll see. It's already being taxed here in the UK and investors are still hot on it.  Maybe in USA you will overtax it but all that will do is move opportunities overseas, as has been happening for decades now. Have fun with your new president .


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 26, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> We'll see. It's already being taxed here in the UK and investors are still hot on it.  Maybe in USA you will overtax it but all that will do is move opportunities overseas, as has been happening for decades now. Have fun with your new president .



hate to break it to you, but all world governments will eventually feel threatened by cryptocurrency unless they heavily tax it eventually, it will either be that or exchanges are closed permanently/businesses banned from using it, etc. one or the other will happen in every first world country though, not in second or third world, i 100% promise you not even the UK treasury will allow its main source of power to be undermined, and that is fiat is king for them, its how they control everything as a government  

crypto is dead in the water, but it will take even 5-10 years for what im saying to become true, maybe less maybe more, maybe in 3 months. no one knows, but I assure you fiat is where all government power comes from and they will not allow crypto to undermine that power. taxes are too light right now, they will gradually increase it over the years, wait and see.  fiat will need to support its inflation somehow that's where you miners come in  great timing  same with cigarette smokers getting taxed a ton supporting healthcare industry. lol

i wouldn't bother with mining or buying any of it, the timing is to risky, especially now with the rhetoric from IMF. best to just use your cards for gaming like me.


----------



## R-T-B (Jan 26, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> hate to break it to you, but all world governments will eventually feel threatened by cryptocurrency


Don't see why.  They can use it too.  Heck, they can make their own brand, backed by the same thing that backs the dollar or the pound: the wealth of the state.

The bitcoin of today may not be the useful currency of the future, but I can promise you, someone will always be a buyer.  It isn't the end game but nor is it worthless.  It's a beta test.


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 26, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Don't see why.  They can use it too.  Heck, they can make their own brand, backed by the same thing that backs the dollar or the pound: the wealth of the state.
> 
> The bitcoin of today may not be the useful currency of the future, but I can promise you, someone will always be a buyer.  It isn't the end game but nor is it worthless.  It's a beta test.


They already are using it and investing heavily.

It's the future, governments that embrace it will become more powerful and influential, governments that don't will fall further behind.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 26, 2021)

Let's see what regulations Yellen and IMF chief pass, then get back to this conversation.


----------



## trog100 (Jan 26, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Let's see what regulations Yellen and IMF chief pass, then get back to this conversation.


countries have a simple problem lynx  they are running out of money.. to keep going they print more.. modern monetary theory or the magic money tree..

quite how it all ends nobody knows but they all know it aint gonna end well..

bitcoin is seen as being outside of all this.. which is why big money is flowing into it.. its seen as an alternative to gold.. 

golds market cap is in trillions.. bitcoins in billions.. it wont take much money movement from gold to bitcoin to send the price of bitcoin to the moon.. whoosh..

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 26, 2021)

trog100 said:


> countries have a simple problem lynx  they are running out of money.. to keep going they print more.. modern monetary theory or the magic money tree..
> 
> quite how it all ends nobody knows but they all know it aint gonna end well..
> 
> ...



Incorrect, they will raise more taxes. Legal weed is coming and will be federally taxed, taxes on rich will be raised from 21% to 29%, and reduction in military spending as well to balance the budget. Eventually these things will happen, it just will take a few years. So you are incorrect in several ways actually. Right now they feel they can get a little more in debt, but once inflation reaches a certain point there will be bi-partisan agreement on the things mentioned above + many more I didn't mention to bring everything back in control. So no they are not running out of money, Japan has been in way more debt per capita than USA currently is, and it has for many years, and they have been doing fine for the most part.


----------



## R-T-B (Jan 26, 2021)

Lynx is right in that money isn't just something you mine, exhaust, and run out of anymore.   It's far more complicated than that.  We did away with the gold standard.  Bitcoin is a throwback to that, not vice versa, and it's making a lot of the same mistakes, it's just easier to understand (economically speaking) and that helps it.  It doesn't mean it's the future.  I believe what makes it the future is more in it's eagerness to embrace online trading with no middleman.


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 26, 2021)

Bitcoin was the first to make it, and is obsolete technically compared to some other superior cryptos. But the idea of crypto transfers control of money more in the direction of rational computers rather than middlemen. There's still the issue of a few large holders essentially having the ability to control it's price, but as I said, it was the first and it's the biggest, other cryptos have better featuresets.

I agree with most of what you've said, and I feel very strongly that it's the future, not the ultimate form of money, there will obviously be further developments, but certainly better than the bank and government controlled medium we currently use.

As to taxes, well they're the only thing guaranteed other than death so that's also true, but in my view that further legitimises and cements their position, rather than killing it. Personally I believe that many of the investors and managers who held off on crypto investment will actually see it as a longer term, less dangerous investment, since taxes will flatten much of the short term volatility I think.

As with all things, change introduces an element of chaos, and so it's true none of our predictions have concrete weight, but I think I can catch a glimpse of the overall trend. Crypto fully embraced would technically allow a much higher level of control and metadata compared to the sytem that is currently dominant, and I've never seen governments or corporations willingly ignore the chance to gain more control/power.


R-T-B said:


> Lynx is right in that money isn't just something you mine, exhaust, and run out of anymore.   It's far more complicated than that.  We did away with the gold standard.  Bitcoin is a throwback to that, not vice versa, and it's making a lot of the same mistakes, it's just easier to understand (economically speaking) and that helps it.  It doesn't mean it's the future.  I believe what makes it the future is more in it's eagerness to embrace online trading with no middleman.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 26, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Lynx is right in that money isn't just something you mine, exhaust, and run out of anymore.   It's far more complicated than that.  We did away with the gold standard.  Bitcoin is a throwback to that, not vice versa, and it's making a lot of the same mistakes, it's just easier to understand (economically speaking) and that helps it.  It doesn't mean it's the future.*  I believe what makes it the future is more in it's eagerness to embrace online trading with no middleman.*



and this is exactly why Yellen and IMF chief want it heavily regulated and taxed more.  so yes Bitcoin will exist, but it will be taxed more, I assure you that.


----------



## R-T-B (Jan 26, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> and this is exactly why Yellen and IMF chief want it heavily regulated and taxed more.  so yes Bitcoin will exist, but it will be taxed more, I assure you that.


I agree.  I just don't see the tax as lethal to it.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 26, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I agree.  I just don't see the tax as lethal to it.



I do, Yellen knows she has to make the tax on it high enough to make sure it can't undermine fiat in the long run.


----------



## R-T-B (Jan 26, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I do, Yellen knows she has to make the tax on it high enough to make sure it can't undermine fiat in the long run.


Unsure if they can't exist side by side.

I am pro taxation, but only as far as it's used for earnings.  Mining, investing, and such should be taxed (potentially very heavily)  But using it to merely pay for items should not.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 26, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Unsure if they can't exist side by side.
> 
> I am pro taxation, but only as far as it's used for earnings.  Mining, investing, and such should be taxed (potentially very heavily)  But using it to merely pay for items should not.



I don't think Yellen cares what you think.


----------



## R-T-B (Jan 26, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I don't think Yellen cares what you think.


They are supposed to represent the public, so I think they do, but we'll see what people really say when it's discussed.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 26, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> They are representitives, I think they do, but we'll see what people really say when it's discussed.



Oh, you picked and voted for Yellen?


----------



## R-T-B (Jan 26, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Oh, you picked and voted for Yellen?


No of course not, but make no mistake, they still represents the will of the people.  In theory.


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 26, 2021)

The only thing they represent is the will of people who are wealthy.


----------



## R-T-B (Jan 26, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> The only thing they represent is the will of people who are wealthy.


Matter of opinion, that.  I say wait and see.


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 26, 2021)

I'm saying this as someone who is wealthy. Plenty of things are done to signal that these politicians are in it for the people, and indeed some certainly are, but they don't win the top leadership slots, if they happen to, their peers keep them from changing much, if at all. 

Money is the only currency that matters to these people, and they'll say anything to get into a position where they can influence it's flow. This has been repeatedly demonstrated through looking at campaign promises and actual decisions made by past appointees. 

I understand that this is generalised, and more accurate for the presidential role than specialised roles such as treasury.


----------



## R-T-B (Jan 26, 2021)

Again, time will tell.


----------



## AsRock (Jan 26, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> _During a U.S. Senate hearing on Tuesday, Janet Yellen, President Joe Biden’s pick to head the U.S. Treasury, expressed concerns that cryptocurrencies could be used to finance illegal activities.
> 
> That followed a call last week from *European Central Bank President Christine Lagarde for global regulation of bitcoin.*
> 
> ...



Don't get me wrong, don't like crypto either but you can use a car to run some one over or a knife to stab some one too.


----------



## trog100 (Jan 27, 2021)

well.. i will just keep hodling away and see what happens.. for obvious reasons i would love to see crypto shoot for the moon but if it dosnt i wont shed that many tears..

trog


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 27, 2021)

According to Coinranking.com, things are still showing drops. 7 day trend is interesting.


----------



## trog100 (Jan 27, 2021)

coinranking is the site i use to keep an eye on whats going on..  its definitely showing a reluctance to going up again.. 

they say the big players are accumulating it and the weak players losing it..  the number of whales is growing.. a whale being defined as any address that holds more than 1000 bitcoin..

all i can say is the whales wont get their hands on any of mine.. he he...

i dont have much but what i do have i am hanging on to.. 

trog


----------



## Super XP (Jan 27, 2021)

The BTC price is being manipulated on purpose.
Has been like this for some time now.


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 27, 2021)

trog100 said:


> coinranking is the site i use to keep an eye on whats going on..  its definitely showing a reluctance to going up again..
> 
> they say the big players are accumulating it and the weak players losing it..  the number of whales is growing.. a whale being defined as any address that holds more than 1000 bitcoin..
> 
> ...


Exactly. Happens everytime there's a big increase in the price, everyone buys, then price drops, so they sell and whales buy. Too many braindead people buying for profit in the short term.


----------



## R-T-B (Jan 27, 2021)

Super XP said:


> The BTC price is being manipulated on purpose.
> Has been like this for some time now.


So is the stockmarket, just visit /r/wallstreetbets


----------



## Super XP (Jan 27, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> So is the stockmarket, just visit /r/wallstreetbets


The difference is Crypto is unregulated. So whales easily manipulate Crypto.


----------



## kayjay010101 (Jan 27, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> So is the stockmarket, just visit /r/wallstreetbets


I like this stock 
edit: my rocket ship emojis don't work


----------



## trog100 (Jan 27, 2021)

governments are creating money like crazy.. this freshly created money ends up in the hands of the rich.. the rich bung it in the stock market..  its all fake.. but the rich get richer and the poor get poorer..

the end result will be massive social unrest..

having said that goverments know this and will soon have to do air drops of free money to the poor.. the poor wont bung it in the stock market they will simply spend it.. this will cause massive inflation and more social unrest..

trog

ps.. what will crash first.. the stock market or the price of bitcoin.. i recon the stock market but i could be wrong.. he he

p2.. how it works.. the rich get interest free loans.. they use this free money to ether buy back their own stock and artificially inflate the price.. or simply buy stocks in general..  this free money has artificially inflated the stock market.. it all looks good but its all fake.. it wont end well..


----------



## kapone32 (Jan 27, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> The only thing they represent is the will of people who are wealthy.


You mean the last administration. Regardless of the spin the republicans have done more to hurt America than help it. Just look at the fact that America has the highest number of Covid cases period.  The republicans are responsible for what happened on Jan 6 not just from before but they way they have responded since. As a Canadian I always laugh when I hear some US politician or pundit say that having public health care is akin to Socialism or Communism.


----------



## trog100 (Jan 27, 2021)

currently everything is in the red.. the stock market and crypto..  this could be the beginnings of a general sell off.. the next few days will tell...

trog


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jan 27, 2021)

kapone32 said:


> You mean the last administration. Regardless of the spin the republicans have done more to hurt America than help it. Just look at the fact that America has the highest number of Covid cases period.  The republicans are responsible for what happened on Jan 6 not just from before but they way they have responded since. As a Canadian I always laugh when I hear some US politician or pundit say that having public health care is akin to Socialism or Communism.


That's how you measure it...by COVID Cases...LOL. Okay. Can we please try to keep politics out of this sub except at the global/market/inflation level or policies by countries that will effect crypto at a global scale, you know what the entire thread is about.


----------



## R-T-B (Jan 27, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> That's how you measure it...by COVID Cases...


It's as good a metric as any you want to pick at, but I agree we've been getting too political so its best we just stop picking at the "other" side all together.  Let stick to the charts, gentlemen.


----------



## ThrashZone (Jan 27, 2021)

Hi,
Yeah then just try and figure out how many died from covid and how many car crash deaths/.... were just counted as covid deaths because hospitals get paid for covid tags.


----------



## R-T-B (Jan 27, 2021)

Super XP said:


> The difference is Crypto is unregulated. So whales easily manipulate Crypto.


Regulation isn't happening on reddit, believe me.  Regulation is losing the battle at this point, on both fronts.



ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yeah then just try and figure out how many died from covid and how many car crash deaths/.... were just counted as covid deaths because hospitals get paid for covid tags.


Less political content, not more.


----------



## wolf (Jan 28, 2021)

Anyone checked their memory junction Temps on Ampere cards or would otherwise like to weigh in on how hot they get? Really debating what I'm willing to put up with temp wise... 
Is junction a single Hotspot (the hottest like on Radeons that reports super hot ) or is it indicative of all chips Temps etc.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 29, 2021)

dogecoin is the future, bitcoin is fail sauce, some are saying it will hit $1...  if you bought in earlier today at .007   lmao.....  the profits will be insane. this whole thing is insane.

dogecoin is up 500% and no end in sight.  lmao... wth is going on


----------



## Metroid (Jan 29, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> dogecoin is the future, bitcoin is fail sauce, some are saying it will hit $1...  if you bought in earlier today at .007   lmao.....  the profits will be insane. this whole thing is insane.
> 
> dogecoin is up 500% and no end in sight.  lmao... wth is going on


We are only seeing the good thing about the pump, when all coins crash up to 99% like 2018 then we are going to see a different story. I would stay far away from this.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 29, 2021)

Metroid said:


> We are only seeing the good thing about the pump, when all coins crash up to 99% like 2018 then we are going to see a different story. I would stay far away from this.



I don't have any coins, my buddy bought in early to Dogecoin this morning though, he has already made close to $200 he said. I think he uses the Robinhood app not sure. I told him to cash out if it hits 20 cents, no way its going to a dollar. lol  

I'm still waiting on Elon Musk to tweet Dogecoin just do it, like he did on gamestonk stock.  lol  still no tweet though, the troll of trolls has let us down.

honestly wish all this crypto would just go away and we could go back to the normal days of getting screwed over by hedgefunds.  good old fashioned corruption vs chaos corruption, life is turning into a DnD game.


----------



## Metroid (Jan 29, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I don't have any coins, my buddy bought in early to Dogecoin this morning though, he has already made close to $200 he said. I think he uses the Robinhood app not sure. I told him to cash out if it hits 20 cents, no way its going to a dollar. lol
> 
> I'm still waiting on Elon Musk to tweet Dogecoin just do it, like he did on gamestonk stock.  lol  still no tweet though, the troll of trolls has let us down.
> 
> honestly wish all this crypto would just go away and we could go back to the normal days of getting screwed over by hedgefunds.  good old fashioned corruption vs chaos corruption, life is turning into a DnD game.


Elon did tweet, reason it went nuts, i guess thieves wanted 0.05 then crash, that is what happened, now is at 0.034 and crashing. This is the classic pump and dump.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 29, 2021)

Metroid said:


> Elon did tweet, reason it went nuts, i guess thieves wanted 0.05 then crash, that is what happened, now is at 0.034 and crashing. This is the classic pump and dump.



ah lmao... wow... pathetic.  going to tell my buddy now.  he should prob sell now, take his 130 buck gain or w.e it was and call it a day.


----------



## yotano211 (Jan 29, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> dogecoin is the future, bitcoin is fail sauce, some are saying it will hit $1...  if you bought in earlier today at .007   lmao.....  the profits will be insane. this whole thing is insane.
> 
> dogecoin is up 500% and no end in sight.  lmao... wth is going on


Some people over at reddit decided to hype it for massive increases.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 29, 2021)

yotano211 said:


> Some people over at reddit decided to hype it for massive increases.



this type of stuff is going to make Yellen come down even harder on crypto since she already made it clear more regulations are coming. honestly before its all said and done, I still see USA banning all banks/companies/exchanges from allowing cryptocurrency's usage.  time will tell.  meh


----------



## Metroid (Jan 29, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> this type of stuff is going to make Yellen come down even harder on crypto since she already made it clear more regulations are coming. honestly before its all said and done, I still see USA banning all banks/companies/exchanges from allowing cryptocurrency's usage.  time will tell.  meh


This exactly, thieves know this is good business, they just need elon or any other billionare to say a "coin name" and boom price increases up to 10x ehhe in minutes. Yeah tell your friend to sell, is good profit already, tell him to not be greedy.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 29, 2021)

Metroid said:


> This exactly, thieves know this is good business, they just need elon or any other billionare to say a "coin name" and boom price increases up to 10x ehhe in minutes. Yeah tell your friend to sell, is good profit already, tell him to not be greedy.



he just told me he isn't selling, like i said before in this thread, thats what plagues all of them, none of them are willing to sell until its too late lol

oh well. well back to reading and gaming, later all


----------



## Metroid (Jan 29, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> he just told me he isn't selling, like i said before in this thread, thats what plagues all of them, none of them are willing to sell until its too late lol
> 
> oh well. well back to reading and gaming, later all


Yeah I guess leave him to his fate, you tried to help.


----------



## trog100 (Jan 29, 2021)

bitcoin also shot up by 17% last night.. 31K to 36K.. 

i know it wont stay up there but my nicehash miners are currently showing $30 dollars a day..  

trog


----------



## sepheronx (Jan 29, 2021)

trog100 said:


> bitcoin also shot up by 17% last night.. 31K to 36K..
> 
> i know it wont stay up there but my nicehash miners are currently showing $30 dollars a day..
> 
> trog


I keep getting messages from people to try nicehash with my RTX 3070.  Issue is I only have one and I dont think it would be worth it, eh?


----------



## kayjay010101 (Jan 29, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> I keep getting messages from people to try nicehash with my RTX 3070.  Issue is I only have one and I dont think it would be worth it, eh?


I use my 3070 on nicehash, and cashed out ~75 EUR today. I started on the 11th of January. If that's worth it or not is up to you. 
Personally I don't see why not considering our very cheap electricity cost here in Norway.


----------



## sepheronx (Jan 29, 2021)

kayjay010101 said:


> I use my 3070 on nicehash, and cashed out ~75 EUR today. I started on the 11th of January. If that's worth it or not is up to you.
> Personally I don't see why not considering our very cheap electricity cost here in Norway.


In Canuckistan, I pay about $0.0739 KW/H

Now, my Fishermans friend, tell me, should I give it a shot and while I can configure nicehash, I am wondering how I should modify the 3070.  Mine is an Asus Dual OC 3070.


----------



## kayjay010101 (Jan 29, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> In Canuckistan, I pay about $0.0739 KW/H
> 
> Now, my Fishermans friend, tell me, should I give it a shot and while I can configure nicehash, I am wondering how I should modify the 3070.  Mine is an Asus Dual OC 3070.


Gotcha beat, I pay 40 øre (0.4 NOK) per kWH!  0.060 CAD/0.047 USD 
For my 3070 (TUF OC) I use -100 on the core and +1250 mem in afterburner. Power target is 60%. With these settings I get ~120W total and 55-60MH/s.
Efficiency is key, you could get a couple more MH/s by increasing power target but at the cost of increased temps and power usage. Higher temp = more risk of degradation, of course. No need to chase those extra couple cents per day if it means there's an exponentially higher risk of damaging the card in its lifetime. Personally I'd try to keep it below 65C at all times, which really isn't an issue for my card at 120W (sits around 54-58C)
Memory is the important bit for MH/s so try to get as high as possible without getting (many) rejected shares. I can do 1250, not 1300. Most 3070's get around +1200 before they start getting rejected shares.


----------



## R-T-B (Jan 29, 2021)

Meh.  Greed is ruining a good thing again.  That's all I got to say.


----------



## sepheronx (Jan 29, 2021)

kayjay010101 said:


> Gotcha beat, I pay 40 øre (0.4 NOK) per kWH!  0.060 CAD/0.047 USD
> For my 3070 (TUF OC) I use -100 on the core and +1250 mem in afterburner. Power target is 60%. With these settings I get ~120W total and 55-60MH/s.
> Efficiency is key, you could get a couple more MH/s by increasing power target but at the cost of increased temps and power usage. Higher temp = more risk of degradation, of course. No need to chase those extra couple cents per day if it means there's an exponentially higher risk of damaging the card in its lifetime. Personally I'd try to keep it below 65C at all times, which really isn't an issue for my card at 120W (sits around 54-58C)
> Memory is the important bit for MH/s so try to get as high as possible without getting (many) rejected shares. I can do 1250, not 1300. Most 3070's get around +1200 before they start getting rejected shares.



I have always been worried about ruining my card for this.  While it sounds like it is good, easy money, I rather not risk it for something as rare as a RTX card.

Thank you for the advice.



R-T-B said:


> Meh.  Greed is ruining a good thing again.  That's all I got to say.



Greed all around.  Miners, big manufacturers, etc.  I cant even find a GTX 1650 Super which I need for a build I got.  Looked at local listings and a GTX 1050 Ti is like $200 CAD.  They can go take a long walk off a short pier.


----------



## kayjay010101 (Jan 29, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> I have always been worried about ruining my card for this.  While it sounds like it is good, easy money, I rather not risk it for something as rare as a RTX card.
> 
> Thank you for the advice.


That's totally understandable, it's your choice. Personally I don't think degradation is any concern as long as the card isn't hitting thermal limits, but I have no proof to back that claim up. It's a risk I'm willing to take. 

Moar bitcoins for meeee!


----------



## sepheronx (Jan 29, 2021)

kayjay010101 said:


> That's totally understandable, it's your choice. Personally I don't think degradation is any concern as long as the card isn't hitting thermal limits, but I have no proof to back that claim up. It's a risk I'm willing to take.
> 
> Moar bitcoins for meeee!



I'll contemplate it more.  First I gotta figure out if it will even be worth it, with my current power costs.


----------



## phill (Jan 29, 2021)

Do yourself a favour and just don't use Nicehash as their fees are pretty high..  Tried moving some I had mined and they will take half what I made which isn't masses at all but wow...  Set up a different miner, you'll thank yourself later


----------



## sepheronx (Jan 29, 2021)

phill said:


> Do yourself a favour and just don't use Nicehash as their fees are pretty high..  Tried moving some I had mined and they will take half what I made which isn't masses at all but wow...  Set up a different miner, you'll thank yourself later


any suggestion?


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 29, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> any suggestion?











						PhoenixMiner 6.2c - AMD+NVIDIA GPU Miner [2022]
					

Miners developer




					phoenixminer.org
				




someone recommended this to me awhile ago, not sure if its legit or not. I have not yet tried mining anything, but I am getting tempted.


----------



## phill (Jan 29, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> any suggestion?


I use Phoenixminer with my 1080 Ti's and a mate and I have set up an account on Ethermine.org..  Job done   My 4 480s are using LOLMiner (1.19 I believe) getting about 110MH   They pull about 490w at worst case..

Don't get me wrong, we aren't mining with 78 3080's or anything but it's making things worth stay on   You might do better or worse, but I'd check out the wattage and what hashrate you will have just to make sure its worth it.  Solar panels help me a lot so providing the sun it out even a little, it offsets the power usage.



lynx29 said:


> PhoenixMiner 6.2c - AMD+NVIDIA GPU Miner [2022]
> 
> 
> Miners developer
> ...


Works for my 2 1080 Ti's better than LOLMiner does.  For some reason my experience was LOLMiner gave me half the hashrate that Phoenixminer did.  I believe I'm running 5.4


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 29, 2021)

phill said:


> I use Phoenixminer with my 1080 Ti's and a mate and I have set up an account on Ethermine.org..  Job done  My 4 480s are using LOLMiner (1.19 I believe) getting about 110MH   They pull about 490w at worst case..
> 
> Don't get me wrong, we aren't mining with 78 3080's or anything but it's making things worth stay on   You might do better or worse, but I'd check out the wattage and what hashrate you will have just to make sure its worth it.  Solar panels help me a lot so providing the sun it out even a little, it offsets the power usage.
> 
> ...



any ideas what my MH rate is with a rx 6800 oc'd on vram and lower core clock under volt on gpu core?


----------



## sepheronx (Jan 29, 2021)

I just used this site and says I can get about $8 a day profit from ETH









						Nvidia RTX 3070 mining calculator ⛏️ | minerstat
					

Nvidia RTX 3070 can reach 61.79 MH/s hashrate and 117 W power consumption for mining ETH (Ethash). Find out more hashrate, consumption, difficulty, and profitability for mining 375 different coins on 130 algorithms.




					minerstat.com
				




I think I'll set it up today.  Anyone willing to help me out?  Probably in a few hours or evening time tonight.

Phil, I know you are in Bongland, do you think you can kinda guide me through by pm later?


----------



## phill (Jan 29, 2021)

I'd have no clue mate to be honest, but you can use the Nicehash calculator or any hashrate calculator just to get a rough idea.  Maybe 60MH or something?  From what I've read the newer AMD cards, aren't quite as good as the 3 series RTX cards for it.  Might be drivers and the like holding it back for the moment?  I'm not sure


----------



## kayjay010101 (Jan 29, 2021)

phill said:


> Do yourself a favour and just don't use Nicehash as their fees are pretty high..  Tried moving some I had mined and they will take half what I made which isn't masses at all but wow...  Set up a different miner, you'll thank yourself later


Withdraw to Coinbase, then to paypal. Zero fees for withdrawal. Apart from that there's the miniscule payment fee which is 2%. Don't see how you could get a 50% fee, that's not normal. The 2% fee is certainly worth it for being able to monitor easily on the web and for literally being like 4 clicks to setup.


lynx29 said:


> PhoenixMiner 6.2c - AMD+NVIDIA GPU Miner [2022]
> 
> 
> Miners developer
> ...


Phoenixminer is used in Nicehash, so it's legit 
It's quite good but Excavator works better on my 3070. Think that's a Nicehash-only miner though


----------



## phill (Jan 29, 2021)

kayjay010101 said:


> Withdraw to Coinbase, then to paypal. Zero fees for withdrawal. Apart from that there's the miniscule payment fee which is 2%. Don't see how you could get a 50% fee, that's not normal. The 2% fee is certainly worth it for being able to monitor easily on the web and for literally being like 4 clicks to setup.
> 
> Phoenixminer is used in Nicehash, so it's legit
> It's quite good but Excavator works better on my 3070. Think that's a Nicehash-only miner though


If you look on Nicehash's site for the fees etc. it was a set fee, if I recall, 0.1% and then 0.016227 (whatever it was) network fee after it which I think I might have mined about double what the fee was...  So something like 0.03 Eth after a transfer from Bitcoin to Eth...  Hopefully I can transfer it out with less of a network fee at some point...  Either way, the $40 or so I might have mined, is worth $20... lol  If I had mined $400, it might be slightly different but with only a few low hashrate cards chugging along, it's not going to make me rich over night


----------



## trog100 (Jan 29, 2021)

Bitcoin is on the roll again... 38K now and still going up.. having decided that 30k was the real bottom the whales are buying back in.. whoosh..

this a a game.. pick a nice high point and bulk sell... scare the faint hearted into selling.. wait till it wont go any lower and buy back in..

the general trend is up  and bitoin is moving into fewer and fewer hands.. the whales are scooping it all up..

guys like lynx & co are just helping them.. he he

trog

ps.. read my 38K as 37K i was being a bit overly optimistic.. he he..


----------



## kayjay010101 (Jan 29, 2021)

phill said:


> If you look on Nicehash's site for the fees etc. it was a set fee, if I recall, 0.1% and then 0.016227 (whatever it was) network fee after it which I think I might have mined about double what the fee was...  So something like 0.03 Eth after a transfer from Bitcoin to Eth...  Hopefully I can transfer it out with less of a network fee at some point...  Either way, the $40 or so I might have mined, is worth $20... lol  If I had mined $400, it might be slightly different but with only a few low hashrate cards chugging along, it's not going to make me rich over night


Oh, you exchanged from btc to eth? That might be why then. I just withdraw to coinbase and do all my stuff there, fee's like 2.99 EUR per crypto->fiat transaction (1.49 EUR for crypto to crypto IIRC) above 50 EUR so at worst you lose ~5%.

But yeah, if it's not too much then I can get why you don't want to bother with it ofc


----------



## hat (Jan 29, 2021)

@sepheronx I've been mining on my two 1070s for 4 years or more, no signs of trouble. 80% power target and cruising...


----------



## sepheronx (Jan 29, 2021)

Ok, I'm sold.  Guide me brothers on what to do.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 30, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Ok, I'm sold.  Guide me brothers on what to do.




almost every app including robinhood forced stopped all crypto trades today, and BTC went back down to 33k.  lol im glad i didnt bother with it, its all nonsense.  and yellen and the IMF chief will make quick work of it with heavy taxes on exchanges and businesses, good luck buying anything with it for a profit 6-12 months from now.


----------



## sepheronx (Jan 30, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> almost every app including robinhood forced stopped all crypto trades today, and BTC went back down to 33k.  lol im glad i didnt bother with it, its all nonsense.


Interesting times that's for sure.  This Robinhood already is working for a band of thieves but not in the benefit of the poor.


----------



## hat (Jan 30, 2021)

I've only heard about Robinhood recently. Their name came up along with the news about whatever the fuck is going on with Gamestop's stocks. The app conveniently broke when it was time to sell.



sepheronx said:


> Ok, I'm sold.  Guide me brothers on what to do.



I use Nicehash. When you sign up with Nicehash, you should automatically have a wallet with them. Nicehash will automatically switch algorithms based on whatever is most profitable at the moment, so you could be mining ETH today, and Zcash tomorrow... but regardless what you mine, you're getting paid in BTC. 

The next step is to set up a Coinbase account. Here, you'll be able to connect some things, like a bank account, or possibly even a Paypal account. Every once in a while, I log in to my Nicehash account and send my BTC over to Coinbase, where it stays. For a while I was pointing Nicehash directly to my Coinbase account, but I was having issues receiving payments. No issues mining into my Nicehash wallet and sending it manually, though. I can sell my BTC for dollars at Coinbase, and then send that to my bank account.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jan 30, 2021)

I must love volatile markets because I am in on the GME ride, luckily don't use Robin Hood. Honestly crypto activity is lowish lately except for doge and I have no interest in it. But the stock market has been a blast lately. If you haven't been watching the market manipulation by multibillion dollar hedge funds have moved the market more than any whale has ever moved crypto and that is supposed to be a "regulated market" unlike crypto which has honestly been more stable than many stocks of late.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 30, 2021)

trog100 said:


> bitcoin also shot up by 17% last night.. 31K to 36K..
> 
> i know it wont stay up there but my nicehash miners are currently showing $30 dollars a day..
> 
> trog


No, NOOO! Crash dammit and then stay dead!! (not you personally, just cryptocoin..)


----------



## sepheronx (Jan 30, 2021)

hat said:


> I've only heard about Robinhood recently. Their name came up along with the news about whatever the fuck is going on with Gamestop's stocks. The app conveniently broke when it was time to sell.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Does Nicehash do just bitcoin or Ethereum?


----------



## trog100 (Jan 30, 2021)

nicehash mines whatever is most profitable and then converts it to bitcoin.. it used to change a bit but now its pretty much always etherium being mined..

i have 1 x 2080ti and 8 x 1070 machines mining nicehash.. they are currently producing between 20 and 25 dollars per day.. roughly 260 mh/s between the two machines.. the 2080ti machine is my daily use machine.. its mining in the background 24/7 and i dont even know its doing it.. its currently showing 5 dollars per day..

i hodle i dont convert anything to cash..

trog

ps.. i recently bought a scalpers 3080.. its still in its box.. i havnt got around to installing it yet.. it would produce $8 dollars per day.. or 250 dollars per month.. you can see why these things are fetching the prices they are..


----------



## sepheronx (Feb 1, 2021)

So I will be setting up the mining Rig Tomorrow.  Hopefully have it up and running by bed time.

So what I need is:
- Wallet (coinbase?)
- Phoenix
- Pool to join.

So I take it Nicehash is the pool, correct?


----------



## phill (Feb 1, 2021)

Go to a different pool but I couldn't stick with Nicehash, they just take far too much..  Try Ethermine.org


----------



## kayjay010101 (Feb 1, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> So I will be setting up the mining Rig Tomorrow.  Hopefully have it up and running by bed time.
> 
> So what I need is:
> - Wallet (coinbase?)
> ...


Is it going to run Windows? Then just use their app and it'll autoswitch miners and you won't have to bother with setting up pools and all that (also, no need to download PhoenixMiner, Nicehash will handle that for you). If not, I recommend using HiveOS and using Nicehash as the wallet. 
So what you need (for Windows) is:
- Nicehash application
- preferably a way to 'cash out'; coinbase or binance are good. Personally I go Nicehash -> Coinbase (free) -> SEPA transfer (free, takes 2-3 days) or instant card withdrawal (upto 2% fee, minimum 0.55 EUR, money on my account within an hour)


phill said:


> Go to a different pool but I couldn't stick with Nicehash, they just take far too much..  Try Ethermine.org


2% really isn't that much for the convinience  especially considering the lack of dev fees, free coinbase withdrawals, etc....


----------



## phill (Feb 1, 2021)

kayjay010101 said:


> Is it going to run Windows? Then just use their app and it'll autoswitch miners and you won't have to bother with setting up pools and all that (also, no need to download PhoenixMiner, Nicehash will handle that for you). If not, I recommend using HiveOS and using Nicehash as the wallet.
> So what you need (for Windows) is:
> - Nicehash application
> - preferably a way to 'cash out'; coinbase or binance are good. Personally I go Nicehash -> Coinbase (free) -> SEPA transfer (free, takes 2-3 days) or instant card withdrawal (upto 2% fee, minimum 0.55 EUR, money on my account within an hour)
> ...


Depends if you want to make 2% more than you could or if your ok with someone else taking your profits   But depending on the hash rate, it might be quite a bit of what your making....


----------



## kayjay010101 (Feb 1, 2021)

Anyone paid attention to XRP? What a mess... A bunch of redditors thought they were going to do GME #2 and lost all their money. They had scheduled a pump at 8:30 EST and just 30 minutes prior it hit a peak of $0.73, then when everybody bought in at the top (to raise the price further) around 8:30 it crashed LOL. It's now at $0.43 and freefalling


----------



## phill (Feb 1, 2021)

I hear there's a bit of a court case going on with that at the moment...  If they win it, I would wonder if that would pump the price up as it was...  Would love to get rid of the coin we have in that...  Can't remember a thing about how much we paid for them tho lol


----------



## kayjay010101 (Feb 1, 2021)

phill said:


> I hear there's a bit of a court case going on with that at the moment...  If they win it, I would wonder if that would pump the price up as it was...  Would love to get rid of the coin we have in that...  Can't remember a thing about how much we paid for them tho lol


I think the idea was to pump it up right before the court case and have it shoot high on top of the inflated price, but now those dreams seem to be over
Although it is now seemingly recovering a bit. It'll be interesting to watch


----------



## phill (Feb 1, 2021)

I'll have a check on the price when I get some signal on the mobile lol Perfect time for a walk at work


----------



## Vya Domus (Feb 1, 2021)

kayjay010101 said:


> Anyone paid attention to XRP? What a mess... A bunch of redditors thought they were going to do GME #2 and lost all their money. They had scheduled a pump at 8:30 EST and just 30 minutes prior it hit a peak of $0.73, then when everybody bought in at the top (to raise the price further) around 8:30 it crashed LOL. It's now at $0.43 and freefalling



You're always going to lose your money on alt coins, same happens on bitcoin but at least it seems you get more chances to cash out before crashes occur.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 1, 2021)

kayjay010101 said:


> Anyone paid attention to XRP? What a mess... A bunch of redditors thought they were going to do GME #2 and lost all their money. They had scheduled a pump at 8:30 EST and just 30 minutes prior it hit a peak of $0.73, then when everybody bought in at the top (to raise the price further) around 8:30 it crashed LOL. It's now at $0.43 and freefalling


Doge also did this. FOMO. I won't buy shit-alt cons. Worse yet they are trying to shoot these up but don't even realize they are tokens, not coins that are mined. So supply can be increased by just pulling a lever.


----------



## trog100 (Feb 1, 2021)

_meanwhile i just keep hodling along.. he he

trog_


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 1, 2021)

trog100 said:


> _meanwhile i just keep hodling along.. he he
> 
> trog_



must admit, I am surprised Bitcoin hasn't rallied to 40k yet, especially with Elon's tweet on Friday. usually when Elon tweets the stock or value of anything he tweets about goes up, it hasn't really changed much though since Friday.  i could care less either way. but yeah just found that interesting, Elon not as king as he thinks I guess.


----------



## dorsetknob (Feb 1, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> usually when Elon tweets the stock or value of anything he tweets about goes up,


 Except Tesla Stock  ......that crashed.... and the sec got involved so i sorta remember


----------



## trog100 (Feb 1, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> must admit, I am surprised Bitcoin hasn't rallied to 40k yet, especially with Elon's tweet on Friday. usually when Elon tweets the stock or value of anything he tweets about goes up, it hasn't really changed much though since Friday.  i could care less either way. but yeah just found that interesting, Elon not as king as he thinks I guess.



the insider story behind this that certain parties are picking rallies and selling them down.. a large mining pool being the main culprit at the moment..

elon did cause a rally.. the large mining pool sold it down.. all it takes is a large player to do a large enough sell at the peak.. fear and the fainted hearted do the rest.. the large player then buys back in at the bottom and makes a nice profit.. or accumulates more bitcoin which i think is the real game..

as a hodler i just sit through the ups and downs. and will keep riding it all the way up.. i do believe long term the only way is up..

trog


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 2, 2021)

trog100 said:


> as a hodler i just sit through the ups and downs. and will keep riding it all the way up.. i do believe long term the only way is up..


This is the way!


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 2, 2021)

trog100 said:


> as a hodler i just sit through the ups and downs. and will keep riding it all the way up.. i do believe long term the only way is up..
> 
> trog



this is probably the best course of action all things considered. i have no issue with your strategy.

can someone please explain to me this and why is this valued number 15 crypto? like why does this even exist and why is it so popular? i swear cryptocurrency confuses the hell out of me all the time

What Is Wrapped Bitcoin [WBTC]?​Wrapped Bitcoin is a tokenized version of Bitcoin (BTC) that runs on the Ethereum (ETH) blockchain.

WBTC is compliant with ERC-20 — the basic compatibility standard of the Ethereum blockchain — allowing it to be fully integrated into the latter’s ecosystem of decentralized exchanges, crypto lending services, prediction markets and other ERC-20-enabled decentralized finance (DeFi) applications.

WBTC is also backed by Bitcoin at a 1:1 ratio via a network of automatically monitored merchants and custodians, ensuring that its price is pegged to Bitcoin at all times and allows users to transfer liquidity between the BTC and the ETH networks in a decentralized and autonomous manner.

Wrapped Bitcoin was first announced on October 26, 2018, and officially launched on January 31, 2019.


----------



## trog100 (Feb 2, 2021)

i got into crypto because i fancied building a mining machine lynx .. this was back in 2017 when bitcoin was worth around 4k.. i acquired some partial bitcoin etherium and litecoin back then and have hung onto it.. how most of it works i havnt a clue.. :its a rabbit hole i dont fancy going down.. 

trog


----------



## phill (Feb 2, 2021)

trog100 said:


> i got into crypto because i fancied building a mining machine lynx .. this was back in 2017 when bitcoin was worth around 4k.. i acquired some partial bitcoin etherium and litecoin back then and have hung onto it.. how most of it works i havnt a clue.. :its a rabbit hole i dont fancy going down..
> 
> trog


Did you take the red pill or the blue pill??


----------



## trog100 (Feb 3, 2021)

_etherium just broke $1600 and bitcoin $3700.. back on a roll it seems.. 

trog_


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 3, 2021)

trog100 said:


> _etherium just broke $1600 and bitcoin $3700.. back on a roll it seems..
> 
> trog_



I might try my hand at Ethereum mining, what do you recommend for wallet again? I was thinking I will use Phoenix Miner.  @phill

also I still don't understand why Ethereum is valuable, since you can simply print infinite amount of it. I thought the reason BTC was valuable was because it was like gold? finite?

"One of the major differences between Bitcoin and Ethereum’s economics is that the latter is not deflationary, i.e. its total supply is not limited. Ethereum’s developers justify this by not wanting to have a “fixed security budget” for the network."


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Feb 3, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> also I still don't understand why Ethereum is valuable, since you can simply print infinite amount of it. I thought the reason BTC was valuable was because it was like gold? finite?



Are you thinking of Doge? Which is also skyrocketing for some reason (despite its infinite print design).


----------



## trog100 (Feb 3, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I might try my hand at Ethereum mining, what do you recommend for wallet again? I was thinking I will use Phoenix Miner.  @phill
> 
> also I still don't understand why Ethereum is valuable, since you can simply print infinite amount of it. I thought the reason BTC was valuable was because it was like gold? finite?
> 
> "One of the major differences between Bitcoin and Ethereum’s economics is that the latter is not deflationary, i.e. its total supply is not limited. Ethereum’s developers justify this by not wanting to have a “fixed security budget” for the network."



anything you mine now assuming you hang on to it will go wherever etherium goes.. back in 2017/18 i acquired 10 eth.. i lost interest and  forgot about it.. one year ago it was worth 2K.. its now worth 16k and rising.. my miners on nice hash are now generating $30 dollars a day..

etherium is going up faster than bitcoin.. using nicehash which converts it to bitcoin is probably a mistake i should mine and keep eth.. i am a lazy bugger and will probably stick with nicehash..

i also have some liteoin.. so far this has been disappointing it hasnt gone up that much.. but i recon it will have its day..

i am lucky in one way.. i am old and retired i dont need the ready cash which is why i just hodle and watch..

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 4, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> Are you thinking of Doge? Which is also skyrocketing for some reason (despite its infinite print design).



I am not, both Doge and Etherium have unlimited supply. Which is why I wonder why does Etherium do so good, the whole point of crypto at the beginning was to stop endless printing. aka Bitcoin.



trog100 said:


> anything you mine now assuming you hang on to it will go wherever etherium goes.. back in 2017/18 i acquired 10 eth.. i lost interest and  forgot about it.. one year ago it was worth 2K.. its now worth 16k and rising.. my miners on nice hash are now generating $30 dollars a day..
> 
> etherium is going up faster than bitcoin.. using nicehash which converts it to bitcoin is probably a mistake i should mine and keep eth.. i am a lazy bugger and will probably stick with nicehash..
> 
> ...



Is phoenix miner considered good/trustworthy? Seems like a simple setup from what I read on their website, I just need to find a reliable wallet. I might just hodl myself for a couple years on ETH. Not sure if I will mine or not just yet, especially since I have AMD and I guess Nvidia is better for this stuff... bleh.  Hmm, that 30 a day could easily be 60 a day at some point though...


----------



## trog100 (Feb 4, 2021)

i think phoenix miner is okay but i am rusty.. crypto has only just kicked back in again for me.. i have only been running my miners for 6 weeks or so during that time my returns have gone from $10 dollars a day to 30 dollars a day.. hopefully you are right about that 60 dollars a day..

my real gains are from what i accumulated the first time around though and had pretty much written off.. crypto does seem to be long a term thing..

they say the would is running out of silver and the current price is well rigged..  a few silver coins may be a good thing to buy as an alternative to crypto..

trog


----------



## kayjay010101 (Feb 4, 2021)

trog100 said:


> i think phoenix miner is okay but i am rusty.. crypto has only just kicked back in again for me.. i have only been running my miners for 6 weeks or so during that time my returns have gone from $10 dollars a day to 30 dollars a day.. hopefully you are right about that 60 dollars a day..
> 
> my real gains are from what i accumulated the first time around though and had pretty much written off.. crypto does seem to be long a term thing..
> 
> ...


For what it's worth I just switched my GPUs over to eth from nicehash. Currently mining on hiveon pool and my RTX 3070+RTX 3090 is getting 0.0126 ETH per day (current value is ~20.57 USD) which is a bit better than Nicehash's payout. But who knows whether BTC or ETH will increase in price most, it might be better to mine BTC now if it skyrockets again, who knows.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 4, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I am not, both Doge and Etherium have unlimited supply. Which is why I wonder why does Etherium do so good, the whole point of crypto at the beginning was to stop endless printing. aka Bitcoin.
> 
> 
> 
> Is phoenix miner considered good/trustworthy? Seems like a simple setup from what I read on their website, I just need to find a reliable wallet. I might just hodl myself for a couple years on ETH. Not sure if I will mine or not just yet, especially since I have AMD and I guess Nvidia is better for this stuff... bleh.  Hmm, that 30 a day could easily be 60 a day at some point though...



You may need a crash course on the difference between Tokens and Coins. https://coinguides.org/coin-token-the-difference/ Etherium is a Coin and it's supply is determined by the amount of miners out there.


----------



## Metroid (Feb 4, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> must admit, I am surprised Bitcoin hasn't rallied to 40k yet, especially with Elon's tweet on Friday. usually when Elon tweets the stock or value of anything he tweets about goes up, it hasn't really changed much though since Friday.  i could care less either way. but yeah just found that interesting, Elon not as king as he thinks I guess.



elon musk twitter post is getting weaker and weaker, he twitted doge today and the rally was not like last time, so people are much more careful now, he removed bitcoin from his twitter profile. If i had any coin right now, this is the time to sell and stay safe.


----------



## phill (Feb 5, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I might try my hand at Ethereum mining, what do you recommend for wallet again? I was thinking I will use Phoenix Miner.  @phill
> 
> also I still don't understand why Ethereum is valuable, since you can simply print infinite amount of it. I thought the reason BTC was valuable was because it was like gold? finite?
> 
> "One of the major differences between Bitcoin and Ethereum’s economics is that the latter is not deflationary, i.e. its total supply is not limited. Ethereum’s developers justify this by not wanting to have a “fixed security budget” for the network."


Phoenix Miner and ethermine is what we use   So much cheaper transfers etc in our pool...  

Tonight tried to transfer my little mined total from nicehash to our wallet, well couldn't do it.  The network fees where more than what I had mined.....   Transferred it over to BTC again, then transferred it to our wallet.  That cos just a bit under $2.50 I think, but that's a hell of a lot better than Nicehash.

Try and stay away from the politics if you can @lynx29    It's just crypto stuff here ideally  

The amount my mate and I's hashrate/payouts at the moment I feel are doing bloody well..  That and the few extra we've made buying and selling the coin I had and it's 10x mark up in price since last year, lovely jubbly


----------



## trog100 (Feb 5, 2021)

i just looked at my nicehash return..  its now at 45 dollars per day.. 

let me ask you a question phil.. why would you swap/sell an asset that is going up massively in price for something that isnt.. cash for example.. ??

trog


----------



## phill (Feb 5, 2021)

Ours is looking about the 80 mark from the pool we mine in, which is pretty decent to be honest    Surprised ourselves if I'm honest!! 

Well our luck is pretty much not existent because if we buy the price shoots down, we sell the price goes up...  It's kinda like sods law lol  What I had 'invested' if you like was a few hundred but now it's grown into the thousands.   We try to ride the waves of it going up and down and catch it when it peaks and then when it drops we buy back in.  Over the time we've made some cash and that's generally not a bad thing.  I'm not after holding out for the maximum, if I can get a decent return and I think something is going to go Pete Tong I sell up.  We missed out on it jumping from the 1400 to the 1500, then it went to 1600 and then 1700 (I believe it's sitting about the 1720 marker at the moment)...  When it hit 1500 I had said to my mate to buy but he was waiting for another drop so we waited..  

It's just a bit of fun with this at the moment, the thing that I believe that gets me is that if I keep hold of it, I'm sure it would just turn to crap and I'd loose it, this way even if with a few transactions I'm only making a few $100, I've still got that to show for it rather than nothing at all...   
That said if the market for whatever reason did fold, I'd buy a load of coins as cheap as possible...  I do have a few hundred ripple to sell off at some point, so I'm hoping we can sell them off for more than we paid for them...  We missed it last time but it's not the end of the world...


----------



## trog100 (Feb 6, 2021)

i didnt know you were buying in and out phil i thought you were just swapping for cash.. 

i am too lazy to do what you are doing plus i can never be sure whether or not it gonna go up or down.. he he

i am pretty sure the general trend is up but that is about all.. i try and predict the highs and the lows along the way but i am wrong as often as i am right.. 

trog


----------



## phill (Feb 6, 2021)

We are basically just trying our luck mate   We've just bought in at 1700, it's now 1745 or something...  For a quick $100 extra in the pot for when we do sell, it's not so bad...  We try and guess as well but like yourself, we are sometimes right, sometimes wrong .....  

If we can get some more GPUs in our hands, I'm hoping we'll be able to push the daily worth up..  With the coins I'd sold to gain the cash I have had now, its meant for me that everything that my mate in the US has bought me (With me sending hiim the cash) its all covered and welcomed to be honest but still....  It's rare has heck that I'm that lucky normally    I think the coins I had were worth $400 ish, its definitely gone up like you say about the general trend doing


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 6, 2021)

I still haven't done any mining, I don't think I will. I find it all intriguing, but eh also just thankful for what I have. still can't believe i got zen 3 and 6800 for MSRP on their launch dates... still blows me away to this day lol


----------



## P4-630 (Feb 8, 2021)

_Tesla CEO Elon Musk has purchased bitcoins for $ 1.5 billion. The price of the cryptocurrency soared to a record above $ 42,000 on Monday.




_


----------



## phill (Feb 8, 2021)

I heard it was about 45k??....  Either way, wow!


----------



## ppn (Feb 8, 2021)

Video cards never more, gone, 0 in stock after what Tesla did. Needs to die quick with a driver patch or something. If by the time of 40 series mining on GPU is still a thing, just turn the planet into mars it's hopeless, i don't care anymore.


----------



## trog100 (Feb 8, 2021)

whoosh..

trog


----------



## sepheronx (Feb 8, 2021)

downloaded nicehash and trying to set it up.  Its going to crap.

I login after downloading the application and it just takes me to the site and a big red couldn't complete re-quest.


----------



## Chomiq (Feb 8, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> _Tesla CEO Elon Musk has purchased bitcoins for $ 1.5 billion. The price of the cryptocurrency soared to a record above $ 42,000 on Monday.
> 
> View attachment 187533_


Pump & dump.


----------



## dgianstefani (Feb 8, 2021)

Maybe, we'll see.


----------



## trog100 (Feb 8, 2021)

elon wont be the only one.. the impetuous to drive bitcoin up to 200k or more has to come from somewhere.. 

trog


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Feb 8, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> Pump & dump.



Musk has demonstrated extreme skills in pump-and-dumping his Tesla shares. Every pump of TSLA has coincided with millions of TSLA shares being sold to the public. And I don't think its illegal, at least by standard US law.

For better or worse, Musk is *really good* at pump and dump and avoiding the legal issues associated with it. Buying BTC last month, and then telling everyone *this month* that he's bought BTC under TSLA's name is just a continuation of Musk's savviness.


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 8, 2021)

ppn said:


> Video cards never more, gone, 0 in stock after what Tesla did. Needs to die quick with a driver patch or something. If by the time of 40 series mining on GPU is still a thing, just turn the planet into mars it's hopeless, i don't care anymore.




yep. so glad i got my 5600x and 6800 at msrp. graphics cards are gone forever now at least for us common folk making 12-14 an hr. unless crypto gets banned. i may be one of the last next gen PC gamers lmao.  driver patch wouldn't do anything, the miners would just use the old driver or make their own. too much money is involved.

not to mention Tesla now allowing bitcoin to buy a tesla is extremely ironic, erases all benefits of a green electric car. lmao


----------



## Caring1 (Feb 9, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> green electric car. lmao


"green" electric car, is an oxymoron.
Nothing green about them.


----------



## P4-630 (Feb 9, 2021)

_Lithium *Batteries*' *Dirty* Secret: Manufacturing Them Leaves Massive Carbon Footprint. Once in operation, electric cars certainly reduce your carbon footprint, but making the lithium-ion *batteries* could emit 74% more CO2 than for conventional cars._


----------



## R-T-B (Feb 9, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> _Lithium *Batteries*' *Dirty* Secret: Manufacturing Them Leaves Massive Carbon Footprint. Once in operation, electric cars certainly reduce your carbon footprint, but making the lithium-ion *batteries* could emit 74% more CO2 than for conventional cars._


That's because conventional cars use lead-acid batteries, which emit very little co2 in manufacture, but are fucking toxic because they are made of lead and uh...  acid.  That, and I'm fairly certain the electric cars make up for that manufacturing CO2 difference several times over in their usage lifetime.

Unsure what this has to do with bitcoin though...


----------



## Aquinus (Feb 9, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> Pump & dump.


Elon knows this oh so well and he takes advantage of it like anyone else.


			
				NYTimes said:
			
		

> “The stock market is a strange thing,” Mr. Musk said in an interview with Business Insider in December. “It’s like having a manic depressive who’s constantly telling you how much your company’s worth. And sometimes they have a good day, and sometimes they have a bad day, but the company is basically the same. The public markets are crazy.”











						Elon Musk Becomes Unlikely Anti-Establishment Hero in GameStop Saga (Published 2021)
					

The billionaire has inserted himself into the confounding stock market drama and solidified his role as the ultimate insider outsider.




					www.nytimes.com


----------



## phill (Feb 9, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> That's because conventional cars use lead-acid batteries, which emit very little co2 in manufacture, but are fucking toxic because they are made of lead and uh...  acid.  That, and I'm fairly certain the electric cars make up for that manufacturing CO2 difference several times over in their usage lifetime.
> 
> Unsure what this has to do with bitcoin though...


Maybe they are going to be given away with a new Tesla?  Each purchase, free bitcoin?! 

Anyways, to anyone who is mining and such, how is everything going for you?


----------



## P4-630 (Feb 9, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Unsure what this has to do with bitcoin though...


Sorry about that though....

Ok carry on  :

Bitcoin price suddenly surges to 3-year high


----------



## trog100 (Feb 9, 2021)

phill said:


> Maybe they are going to be given away with a new Tesla?  Each purchase, free bitcoin?!
> 
> Anyways, to anyone who is mining and such, how is everything going for you?



fine but i am using left over hardware from the first time around.. gpu shortages must be having an effect on etherium mining in general.. probably good for those that have the hardware not so good for those that dont..

trog


----------



## sepheronx (Feb 9, 2021)

so I am only getting like 51MH/s when mining with my ASUS Dual RTX 3070 OC.

I see that the memory is only running at 6500 rather than 7000 like when I am gaming.  Temperatures are good, 65C.  Quiet.  190W average.

So I am gonna reduce power and increase memory speeds to try to get that MH/s up and power usage down.

Any suggestions?


----------



## trog100 (Feb 9, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> so I am only getting like 51MH/s when mining with my ASUS Dual RTX 3070 OC.
> 
> I see that the memory is only running at 6500 rather than 7000 like when I am gaming.  Temperatures are good, 65C.  Quiet.  190W average.
> 
> ...


 nope.. carry on as your are..

trog


----------



## Caring1 (Feb 9, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> so I am only getting like 51MH/s when mining with my ASUS Dual RTX 3070 OC.
> 
> I see that the memory is only running at 6500 rather than 7000 like when I am gaming.  Temperatures are good, 65C.  Quiet.  190W average.
> 
> ...


Does it have a mining Bios or stock?


----------



## R-T-B (Feb 9, 2021)

Caring1 said:


> Does it have a mining Bios or stock?


It's nvidia ampere.  I don't think there is any such thing as a "mining bios."  The most he might (?) be able to do is some crossflash crap.


----------



## sepheronx (Feb 9, 2021)

Caring1 said:


> Does it have a mining Bios or stock?


Stock. I refuse to do mining bios as I don't want to brick anything.

Since started mining, this thing is nonsense.  I gained almost nothing while I was at work for 8 hours because now nicehash site says mining is down.  Really?  It seems to still be running but so far I cant see anything to prove that I made much money at all.  I got "current profitability" but thats it.

I dont really understand this thing tbh.


----------



## kayjay010101 (Feb 9, 2021)

Caring1 said:


> Does it have a mining Bios or stock?


Yeah no such thing for Ampere and I wouldn't bother either if there were



sepheronx said:


> Stock. I refuse to do mining bios as I don't want to brick anything.
> 
> Since started mining, this thing is nonsense.  I gained almost nothing while I was at work for 8 hours because now nicehash site says mining is down.  Really?  It seems to still be running but so far I cant see anything to prove that I made much money at all.  I got "current profitability" but thats it.
> 
> I dont really understand this thing tbh.


Nicehash's site after the Tesla news has crapped out completely. You're still earning according to them, it's just not viewable at the moment. You'll have to wait for them to fix their shitty site.


----------



## sepheronx (Feb 9, 2021)

kayjay010101 said:


> Yeah no such thing for Ampere and I wouldn't bother either if there were
> 
> 
> Nicehash's site after the Tesla news has crapped out completely. You're still earning according to them, it's just not viewable at the moment. You'll have to wait for them to fix their shitty site.


Ok, thanks for the info. I can see how it is still mining.

Now, I managed to reduce wattage from 190W to 125W by reducing power usage to 53%. I also increased memory clock to about 1200.

I'm worried though I may be stressing the vram.  Which application works to monitor vram temps?  So far GPU temp is only 56C.

MSU afterburner doesn't show anything for GPU memory temps, and neither does gpuz it seems nor can I find it in hwinfo.


----------



## kayjay010101 (Feb 9, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Ok, thanks for the info. I can see how it is still mining.
> 
> Now, I managed to reduce wattage from 190W to 125W by reducing power usage to 53%. I also increased memory clock to about 1200.
> 
> ...


The 3070 uses GDDR6 which I don't think has overheating issues. As long as it's power limited it should be fine. I run a 130W PL with a +1100 MEM and -500 core OC on my 3070.
HWInfo just recently got a GDDR6X sensor, don't know whether there is one for GDDR6 on NVIDIA cards :/


----------



## sepheronx (Feb 9, 2021)

kayjay010101 said:


> The 3070 uses GDDR6 which I don't think has overheating issues. As long as it's power limited it should be fine. I run a 130W PL with a +1100 MEM and -500 core OC on my 3070.
> HWInfo just recently got a GDDR6X sensor, don't know whether there is one for GDDR6 on NVIDIA cards :/


tried latest of HWINFO and no go, cant find anything showing sensors for memory for the gpu.

Hmm, I am getting a lot of incorrect ETH Share from GPU0.

-200 on core clock, +1200 for memory and 60% power limit.


----------



## trog100 (Feb 9, 2021)

i dont think its a good idea to run your memory right on the edge.. try dropping it to +1000 or a bit less

trog


----------



## sepheronx (Feb 9, 2021)

trog100 said:


> i dont think its a good idea to run your memory right on the edge.. try dropping it to +1000 or a bit less
> 
> trog



dropped it to 1000

using also t-rex and i noticed my profit per day has dropped from 8.30 to 7.30

To be honest, I may just cancel doing mining.  Not only do I not feel comfortable cause I am worried about ruining the GPU (having it develop artifacts later on), but even with a mild OC and what not, I am getting failed jobs.  I figure my card isn't a good sample thus very limited.


----------



## trog100 (Feb 9, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> dropped it to 1000
> 
> using also t-rex and i noticed my profit per day has dropped from 8.30 to 7.30
> 
> To be honest, I may just cancel doing mining.  Not only do I not feel comfortable cause I am worried about ruining the GPU (having it develop artifacts later on), but even with a mild OC and what not, I am getting failed jobs.  I figure my card isn't a good sample thus very limited.


  i run 1 x 2080ti plus an 8 x 1070 mining rig.. the pair of them are now showing around 260 H/hs or 40 dollars per day.. $280 per week or 1120 per month..

this has gone up by a factor of five over the last six weeks since i started mining again... the mining rig has had about 14 months of 24/7 running with a three year rest in between..

i recon your 3070 will generate roughly the same as my 2080ti.. 55 m/hs or so..

would i bother with mining if i just had the one 2080ti machine.. probably not but its hard to say..

failed jobs isnt your card its at the server end.. nothing to do with you.. 

trog


----------



## sepheronx (Feb 9, 2021)

trog100 said:


> i run 1 x 2080ti plus an 8 x 1070 mining rig.. the pair of them are now showing around 260 H/hs or 40 dollars per day.. $280 per week or 1120 per month..
> 
> this has gone up by a factor of five over the last six weeks since i started mining again... the mining rig has had about 14 months of 24/7 running with a three year rest in between..
> 
> ...



thanks for the clarification.

Now, if I mine, and I want to play games, and I run default profile, can I mine while I game in the background?  GPU while heavy gaming doesnt exceed 77C.  Or will Mining auto quit?

I can also mine when I am at work or not really using the PC as well.  I have a profile set - -200 on core and +1000 on mem, with reduced power and heat is 56.  So far so good.  I am getting about 58 - 60MHs with this.


----------



## trog100 (Feb 9, 2021)

to be honest i havnt tried gaming at the same time as mining.. i run videos and do everything else i normally would do with the miner running in the background 24/7..

at the worse one would just turn the miner off whilst running a game..

the main thing is dont flog the card too much.. let it run easy and cool.. run this way i think they will last a long time.. my 8 x 1070 cards seem to be doing okay..

trog


----------



## sepheronx (Feb 9, 2021)

trog100 said:


> to be honest i havnt tried gaming at the same time as mining.. i run videos and do everything else i normally would do with the miner running in the background 24/7..
> 
> at the worse one would just turn the miner off whilst running a game..
> 
> ...


Well, temps while mining are at 58C right now with fans at a low.  Idle is around 48C.  Gaming it gets to about 74C.

I didn't game much. I turned it off to play Tropico 6 for an hour.  Then turned it back on and load the profile I set for mining.


----------



## phill (Feb 9, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Well, temps while mining are at 58C right now with fans at a low.  Idle is around 48C.  Gaming it gets to about 74C.
> 
> I didn't game much. I turned it off to play Tropico 6 for an hour.  Then turned it back on and load the profile I set for mining.


That's all you need to do   Enjoy it making some cash, enjoy it playing some games


----------



## sepheronx (Feb 10, 2021)

phill said:


> That's all you need to do   Enjoy it making some cash, enjoy it playing some games



thanks for your help!

I am just still kinda worried about the memory as I have it at 1100.  Apparently thats low compared to others with the same exact card doing this (they are doing 1400 or more).  I did the -200 core just to keep things stable.  Temps are now average out to 57C total.

Do you think this is safe?


----------



## kayjay010101 (Feb 10, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> thanks for your help!
> 
> I am just still kinda worried about the memory as I have it at 1100.  Apparently thats low compared to others with the same exact card doing this (they are doing 1400 or more).  I did the -200 core just to keep things stable.  Temps are now average out to 57C total.
> 
> Do you think this is safe?


I would say so. I think my +1200 is on the edge of what I would feel is safe, anything above 1300 or so is stretching for half a MH/s in exchange for potential degradation. 1100 should be just fine long term IMO, and you're not missing out massively. The core underclock is definitely the way to go. Personally I would just drop it as low as it goes as it has almost no effect on MH/s and should lower temps and allocate more power to the memory
Also, keep an eye not on the $/24h but on the BTC/24h figure. $/24h will change massively during the course of each day as BTC changes in value quite a lot. You should be getting about ~0.00013000-0.00015000 BTC a day with a 3070.


----------



## phill (Feb 10, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> thanks for your help!
> 
> I am just still kinda worried about the memory as I have it at 1100.  Apparently thats low compared to others with the same exact card doing this (they are doing 1400 or more).  I did the -200 core just to keep things stable.  Temps are now average out to 57C total.
> 
> Do you think this is safe?


If your worried about it, just lower it down.  There's no one telling you you have to run it at maximum speeds.  I don't!   I just work at stock, with lower power limits.  I run my two 1080 Ti's at 50%, my 1070 at 70% or 80% if I feel like it.  I can overclock the VRAM a little but I'm just fine with stock     The 1070's and 1080 Ti's aren't the best for it, they give less Hash than some of the newer low end cards which isn't surprising but I don't run them very often..  Higher fan speed, keeps the temps hopefully lower and the card in a better shape   In that way for me its no different than the cards running FAH


----------



## sepheronx (Feb 10, 2021)

phill said:


> If your worried about it, just lower it down.  There's no one telling you you have to run it at maximum speeds.  I don't!   I just work at stock, with lower power limits.  I run my two 1080 Ti's at 50%, my 1070 at 70% or 80% if I feel like it.  I can overclock the VRAM a little but I'm just fine with stock     The 1070's and 1080 Ti's aren't the best for it, they give less Hash than some of the newer low end cards which isn't surprising but I don't run them very often..  Higher fan speed, keeps the temps hopefully lower and the card in a better shape   In that way for me its no different than the cards running FAH



I guess I should.  The safest usually is around +800 for it anyway so I dont know if there will be a huge performance drop.

Also, I noticed that my nicehash is on EU side of server.  How do I change it to US side?



kayjay010101 said:


> I would say so. I think my +1200 is on the edge of what I would feel is safe, anything above 1300 or so is stretching for half a MH/s in exchange for potential degradation. 1100 should be just fine long term IMO, and you're not missing out massively. The core underclock is definitely the way to go. Personally I would just drop it as low as it goes as it has almost no effect on MH/s and should lower temps and allocate more power to the memory
> Also, keep an eye not on the $/24h but on the BTC/24h figure. $/24h will change massively during the course of each day as BTC changes in value quite a lot. You should be getting about ~0.00013000-0.00015000 BTC a day with a 3070.


I'll see when I get home.  I have seen others doing -500 on their core.  Maybe I can give that a try.  But I dont feel safe going above 1100 on memory.  I want to use this card for gaming if mining takes a dive.

Edit: Cant believe I am saying this, but I think this weekend I will be switching over everything else from my 10500 ES machine (extra drive and what not) to my Thinkstation P500 machine which has a 1620 V3 and a R9 390X GPU, and use the P500 as my main rig (Plex, gaming, data and what not) as I dont game as much as I did before, most games I play are mild in performance demand and the R9 390X is sufficient.  I guess I will need to replace the CPU for video editing.  I may just use the 3070 machine in mining till I pay off the whole build and or buy a new GPU!

Now even I have become part of the problem of the cryptominers.....  Feel free to hate me everyone.  Even if it is a very hard thing to do.


----------



## trog100 (Feb 10, 2021)

my 2080ti is minus 450 on the core with plus 850 on the memory at 65% max power.. 65 C temps at 54 fan duty..  the core is actually running at 1065 mhz.. 

my machine needs taking outside for a good dust blow out.. when i do this (weather permitting) i will install my 3080 card..

i have always assumed the fans would be one of the first thing to wear out plus i dont like fan noise..

trog


----------



## dont whant to set it"' (Feb 10, 2021)

Getting a little over 100 MH/s for ~.5KW/h power pulled by the whole rig (spanned across 3 gpu's), beer money its what I call it.
Disclaimer: Sys.Specs not up to date.


----------



## phill (Feb 10, 2021)

dont whant to set it' said:


> Getting a little over 100 MH/s for ~.5KW/h power pulled by the whole rig (spanned across 3 gpu's), beer money its what I call it.
> Disclaimer: Sys.Specs not up to date.


Can't be doing badly there    Eth seems to be on the rise again....


----------



## sepheronx (Feb 10, 2021)

meh, getting a lot of incorrect eth share from GPU0.  Payout is OK.  I made so far $11 CAD after playing around with it.  This has been running for about day and a half.


----------



## dgianstefani (Feb 10, 2021)

Old 6x580 rig still running strong since 2017 lol. And to think late 2019 I wanted to sell the cards and upgrade to Turing

Tip for new miners, repaste/pad the cards straight from new. I did that and haven't had to do again yet, apart from standard dusting.


----------



## sepheronx (Feb 10, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Old 6x580 rig still running strong since 2017 lol. And to think late 2019 I wanted to sell the cards and upgrade to Turing
> 
> Tip for new miners, repaste/pad the cards straight from new. I did that and haven't had to do again yet, apart from standard dusting.


Uh, maybe depending on laws. I didn't open a PSU cause the warranty sticker states it's void if removed. Don't know if law in Canada allows this.  Repairing a brand new card doesn't sound very good idea tbh and rather unecessary.


----------



## dgianstefani (Feb 10, 2021)

You're talking about something you don't have experience with, which is general bad practice. 

You're on a tech forum. 

"repairing" was not the point. Replacing shitty 2-3w/mk paste that's been unevenly applied in the cheapest way possible with 10+w/mk paste is the point. Low temperatures = long lifespan.


----------



## sepheronx (Feb 10, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> You're talking about something you don't have experience with, which is general bad practice.
> 
> You're on a tech forum.
> 
> "repairing" was not the point. Replacing shitty 2-3w/mk paste that's been unevenly applied in the cheapest way possible with 10+w/mk paste is the point. Low temperatures = long lifespan.



repairing was the wrong word, phone auto corrected.

I am on the right forum, been here longer than you have that is for sure.

Also, have experience with replacing thermalpaste and pads, and never seen the need to ever do it unless the GPU is old enough and temperatures are climbing.  I think you are giving wrong advice tbh.  Been repairing and rebuilding pc's for over 20 years.  So I have an idea what I am doing in that regard.  No idea on crypto though.

So, cool your jets and watch how you talk to others.


----------



## dgianstefani (Feb 10, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> repairing was the wrong word, phone auto corrected.
> 
> I am on the right forum, been here longer than you have that is for sure.
> 
> ...


So your argument is a 5-10c improvement in temps is irrelevant to mining hardware that will be run 24/7 for years? Just confirming that's what you are trying to state.

As you state yourself, you have no idea on crypto, so I am to assume that you do not have experience with running 6-10 GPUs in close proximity to each other, 24/7, for years, yet you feel that since "I've been here longer than you", your opinion on these matters is still correct?


----------



## sepheronx (Feb 10, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> So your argument is a 5-10c improvement in temps is irrelevant to mining hardware that will be run 24/7 for years? Just confirming that's what you are trying to state.
> 
> As you state yourself, you have no idea on crypto, so I am to assume that you do not have experience with running 6-10 GPUs in close proximity to each other, 24/7, for years, yet you feel that since "I've been here longer than you", your opinion on these matters is still correct?


OK, if you see that kind of temp changes, good.  My experience with workstations and servers, never seen that kind of a boost.  I presume you use liquid metal like cryonaut.

Hope it all works out.  Not really interested in debating but if your experience shows that, then that is nice.  And hopefully works for everyone else.  Just let people know, depending on location, it can mess with their warranty.


----------



## dgianstefani (Feb 10, 2021)

Yeah, like I said, high quality thermal paste application on GPUs, especially lower end models which are what you tend to buy for mining, makes a huge difference to both initial temperature results, and long term, since the cheap crap that comes with GPUs has a lower life, and dries out much faster than a good paste like cryonaut. I don't tend to use liquid metal on GPUs since the dies are large enough that it doesn't do as much compared to using it on a CPU.


----------



## sepheronx (Feb 10, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Yeah, like I said, high quality thermal paste application on GPUs, especially lower end models which are what you tend to buy for mining, makes a huge difference to both initial temperature results, and long term, since the cheap crap that comes with GPUs has a lower life, and dries out much faster than a good paste like cryonaut. I don't tend to use liquid metal on GPUs since the dies are large enough that it doesn't do as much compared to using it on a CPU.


which thermalpaste you use?  I use MX4 now but tried TF8 which also works great.

While I never worked with mining GPU's per se till now, majority of GPU's I worked with (if it wasnt standard consumer grade), are Quadro's and FirePro's.  I had to replace some thermalpaste on some older units in our workstation/servers at work but I never really saw the need to unless it was darn necessary (GPU overheating).  But I used to mostly use Arctic silver back in the day and never failed on me.  MX4 is a great replacement and its rather cheap.


----------



## dgianstefani (Feb 10, 2021)

Cryonaut Extreme. KPX is good too but I don't know about the long term.


----------



## sepheronx (Feb 10, 2021)

Something is up.  I run the mine, apply the OC and it runs fine for over 400 shares then all of a sudden, in a short period of time, 50 incorrect ETH shares in a matter of two minutes.

Either Phoenix Miner is the problem as some has specified after doing some research or something else is wrong.  And I am getting this issue with stock settings too, not just OC.


----------



## kayjay010101 (Feb 11, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Something is up.  I run the mine, apply the OC and it runs fine for over 400 shares then all of a sudden, in a short period of time, 50 incorrect ETH shares in a matter of two minutes.
> 
> Either Phoenix Miner is the problem as some has specified after doing some research or something else is wrong.  And I am getting this issue with stock settings too, not just OC.


Hmm, that's strange. I've been running PhoenixMiner on Hiveonpool for the last week or so and not had any issues with it. I did have some issues with stale shares when I had my rig on WiFi (just for testing) but after putting it on ethernet my stale shares have dropped to about 0.5% total. Some are normal, but anything above ~5% or so can be a result of a bad connection to the pool, which can be either user error, bad networking setup (firewall blocking packets?) or the ISP sucks.


----------



## sepheronx (Feb 11, 2021)

kayjay010101 said:


> Hmm, that's strange. I've been running PhoenixMiner on Hiveonpool for the last week or so and not had any issues with it. I did have some issues with stale shares when I had my rig on WiFi (just for testing) but after putting it on ethernet my stale shares have dropped to about 0.5% total. Some are normal, but anything above ~5% or so can be a result of a bad connection to the pool, which can be either user error, bad networking setup (firewall blocking packets?) or the ISP sucks.


Probably my ISP. Telus sucks.  But oh well.  Tried what I could. Failure rate is at 24% last I checked.  At default or OC.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 18, 2021)

*$52,000 !! *


----------



## trog100 (Feb 19, 2021)

bitcoin now at 52650 and consolidating at that level... 

eth at 1930 and lagging a little.. 

litecoin at 230 and lagging a little..

trog


----------



## sepheronx (Feb 19, 2021)

trog100 said:


> bitcoin now at 52650 and consolidating at that level...
> 
> eth at 1930 and lagging a little..
> 
> ...


wow, litecoin really jumped quite a bit.  Should have bought some.  Oh well.


----------



## trog100 (Feb 19, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Does anyone know how to mine Litecoin?



i dont.. but i think litecoin is lagging behind and is yet to show its mettle.. its kind of been forgotten.. 


trog


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 19, 2021)

trog100 said:


> i dont.. but i think litecoin is lagging behind and is yet to show its mettle.. its kind of been forgotten..
> 
> 
> trog


Yeah it is for sure. Should easily be around 400-500 right now.


----------



## trog100 (Feb 19, 2021)

bitcoin now at 53450.. 

trog


----------



## xkm1948 (Feb 19, 2021)

$54592, god damn!


----------



## P4-630 (Feb 19, 2021)

I still remember this article:

_Hanyecz paid for his pizzas with *bitcoin* in what’s believed to be the first transaction using cryptocurrency to pay for a product.
At the time, each bitcoin was worth less than a penny … about $0.003 to be specific. The pizzas cost about $30, so Hanyecz needed 10,000 bitcoins to pay for them......._









						A $200 Million Pizza! Here’s How Bitcoin Made That Possible …
					

InvestorPlace - Stock Market News, Stock Advice & Trading Tips




					www.nasdaq.com


----------



## trog100 (Feb 19, 2021)

there is bound to be a sell off at the psyphological 55K point.. he he..

back down to 51 or 52k maybe and then up and away again.. to the moon we go.. 

trog


----------



## xkm1948 (Feb 19, 2021)

trog100 said:


> there is bound to be a sell off at the psyphological 55K point.. he he..
> 
> back down to 51 or 52k maybe and then up and away again.. to the moon we go..
> 
> trog



100k before end of 2021?


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 19, 2021)

trog100 said:


> there is bound to be a sell off at the psyphological 55K point.. he he..
> 
> back down to 51 or 52k maybe and then up and away again.. to the moon we go..
> 
> trog



I doubt there will be a selloff, the selloff would have happened at 50k in mass, this is just pure momentum. There is no stopping Bitcoin now, though I do wonder... how are transactions done on bitcoin blockchain at this sort of price point? Like won't the fees associated with transferring bitcoin be enormous the more its worth/less there is to be mined? and what if supercomputers start mining it, and it all gets mined up, how do transactions work when there is no mining left to be done? this confuses me a lot. mining is necessary to complete transactions, but there is a finite amount to mine... im so confused...


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 19, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I doubt there will be a selloff, the selloff would have happened at 50k in mass, this is just pure momentum. There is no stopping Bitcoin now, though I do wonder... how are transactions done on bitcoin blockchain at this sort of price point? Like won't the fees associated with transferring bitcoin be enormous the more its worth/less there is to be mined? and what if supercomputers start mining it, and it all gets mined up, how do transactions work when there is no mining left to be done? this confuses me a lot. mining is necessary to complete transactions, but there is a finite amount to mine... im so confused...


Once all the BTC has been mined it is not going to slow down. People will start trading via Satoshi. 1 BTC = 100,000,000 Satoshi. There have been projections where 1 Satoshi = 1 USD, which would mean 1 BTC would be worth $100m....yeah I think that is crazy but you get the idea. Lack of new mining pool isn't going to stop it.

Just because all the Gold has been mined doesn't make gold suddenly worth less. In fact it should increase in value.


----------



## trog100 (Feb 19, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I doubt there will be a selloff, the selloff would have happened at 50k in mass, this is just pure momentum. There is no stopping Bitcoin now, though I do wonder... how are transactions done on bitcoin blockchain at this sort of price point? Like won't the fees associated with transferring bitcoin be enormous the more its worth/less there is to be mined? and what if supercomputers start mining it, and it all gets mined up, how do transactions work when there is no mining left to be done? this confuses me a lot. mining is necessary to complete transactions, but there is a finite amount to mine... im so confused...



the whales pick a psychological price point and then try and drive the price down so that they can buy back in at lower price point..  you may well be right there might be enough buying pressure to f-ck up the whales game.. the more weak players they drive out of the game the less effective their game is.. 

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 19, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Once all the BTC has been mined it is not going to slow down. People will start trading via Satoshi. 1 BTC = 100,000,000 Satoshi. There have been projections where 1 Satoshi = 1 USD, which would mean 1 BTC would be worth $100m....yeah I think that is crazy but you get the idea. Lack of new mining pool isn't going to stop it.
> 
> Just because all the Gold has been mined doesn't make gold suddenly worth less. In fact it should increase in value.




no no you misunderstand what I am saying, I read that Bitcoin, lets say you send bitcoin to person A and you are person B,  in order to send that bitcoin literally requires a transaction on the bitcoin blockchain which requires mining, what if all the miners stopped tomorrow? could person a still send to person b? i guess maybe i don't understand how the blockchain works. i was under the impression to send someone bitcoin - directly from a hard drive to another bitcoin account hard drive no exchanges, banks etc, you need that blockchain to be up and running, which requires mining.

so once its all mined up, you can still trade bitcoin, but no longer directly, only through banks, exchanges, other coins?


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 19, 2021)

"The process of mining bitcoin allows miners to gain rewards for every successful block verified in the network. There are two types of rewards that miners get from mining—a portion of BTC for every confirmed block and incentives that come from transaction fees, which are paid to the miners in exchange for their efforts in processing and verifying each transaction. Higher fees allow miners to gain higher incentives. This is also their basis for prioritizing a transaction in the network. The higher the transaction fee you pay, the faster it is for your transaction to be included in a block.

When all bitcoin has been mined, the miners will no longer receive block rewards since there are no more coins to be generated. They will only earn from the transaction fees to be collected from every confirmed transaction. Miners can continue securing the network since they will still earn from the said fees. However, it is not sure if these fees will be enough for miners to provide sufficient resources for them."

It might be possible that transaction fee's will increase after all are mined. BUt I doubt it because the pure volume of transactions will increase AND the value will increase so the % given to miners will also increase.


----------



## trog100 (Feb 19, 2021)

one other significant point has just been reached bitcoins market cap has just gone over one trillion dollars.. 

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 19, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> It might be possible that transaction fee's will increase after all are mined.




this is one hell of a maybe.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 19, 2021)

I guess what I am saying is if the % stays the same but the Volume and Price continue to go up (more so the volume) then it should be offset. Just look at the volume now $58 Billion just today. That will only increase as it becomes more and more adopted by biz and public.


----------



## trog100 (Feb 20, 2021)

well the sell off i expected at 55K never happened.. bitcoin is now going sideways at just over 57K.. maybe the orchestrated sell off days are over.. 

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 20, 2021)

mining ether just isn't worth it on AMD. just did the calculator for it. most I would make would be around 230 bucks a month.  and thats mining 24/7 which i don't want to do, i want to game sometimes too.

even if it doubled in value that would be 460 a month, maybe 350 a month after my gaming time, thats not including any fees, and paying taxes on it next tax season - so really looking at for 250 per month maybe 270 ish after all said and done, and lowering lifespan of my hardware... 

just not worth it to me. it would need to triple in value to be worth it and i just don't see that happening for ether. i think btc will hit 60-65k range and stay there for a very long time.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 21, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> i think btc will hit 60-65k range and stay there for a very long time.


I'm thinking $75k by end of Q3 2021.


----------



## AsRock (Feb 21, 2021)

Maybe it's all the rich people in China hiding all their money hahaha.


----------



## kapone32 (Feb 22, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> mining ether just isn't worth it on AMD. just did the calculator for it. most I would make would be around 230 bucks a month.  and thats mining 24/7 which i don't want to do, i want to game sometimes too.
> 
> even if it doubled in value that would be 460 a month, maybe 350 a month after my gaming time, thats not including any fees, and paying taxes on it next tax season - so really looking at for 250 per month maybe 270 ish after all said and done, and lowering lifespan of my hardware...
> 
> just not worth it to me. it would need to triple in value to be worth it and i just don't see that happening for ether. i think btc will hit 60-65k range and stay there for a very long time.


If you say so. Even though the hash rate may not change as the value rises so does the profitability.


----------



## trog100 (Feb 22, 2021)

bitcoin is seeing a big move at the moment.. lots of coins are being moved onto exchanges.. quite why is still an unknown..

currently the price is dropping but if some big players are preparing to buy (i think they are)  this could soon change..

trog


----------



## purecain (Feb 22, 2021)

Electricity prices going up in the UK....


----------



## dorsetknob (Feb 22, 2021)

trog100 said:


> bitcoin is seeing a big move at the moment.. lots of coins are being moved onto exchanges.. quite why is still an unknown..


"Pump and Dump"
we have had the pump and now its preparing to Dump

When price crash'es enough the Sharks will swim into the chummed water and Buy/feed


----------



## kapone32 (Feb 22, 2021)

They started a Bit Coin Fund on the TSX in Canada. It started at 30+ on Monday and closed at $51.40 on Friday. I plan on putting 5k on that by tomorrow.


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 22, 2021)

dorsetknob said:


> "Pump and Dump"
> we have had the pump and now its preparing to Dump
> 
> When price crash'es enough the Sharks will swim into the chummed water and Buy/feed



what is that, a 6 grand contraction overnight.  that volatility boys! lol


----------



## kapone32 (Feb 22, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> what is that, a 6 grand contraction overnight.  that volatility boys! lol


It was doing that the entire weekend. CLimb in the day and drop overnight.


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 22, 2021)

kapone32 said:


> It was doing that the entire weekend. CLimb in the day and drop overnight.



I think it's a lot of big banks/companies buying up and common man selling. Future of bitcoin is whales majority controlling everything... which is complete opposite what Bitcoin was supposed to be.


----------



## kapone32 (Feb 22, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I think it's a lot of big banks/companies buying up and common man selling. Future of bitcoin is whales majority controlling everything... which is complete opposite what Bitcoin was supposed to be.


Well the Super rich had to do something to secure their profits after Coca Cola's revenue (among others)  went south. This wave will not end (for me) until the Pandemic is over but think of it this way for what you are lamenting on. For every 2 GPUs that are sold this week in retail at least one will be used for Mining. The fly in the ointment is supply. The thing about that is even if Crypto went bust yesterday GPU price and supply would still be constrained. For these new generation cards the 2080TI's price set the bar.


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 22, 2021)

HERE COMES THE CRASH BOYS !!!  59K LAST NIGHT NOW WE AT 49K A COIN AND ETHEREUM WAS ALMOST 2K A COIN NOW ALMOST UNDER 1600

LOLOL   tumble tumble tumble


----------



## trog100 (Feb 22, 2021)

down to 50K now.. kind of similar to what happened at 40K only bigger.. first they move loads of coin onto an exchange ready for a big sell off.. then they sell en mass.. it does now take a really big sell off to kick the price down.. 

interesting stuff..

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 22, 2021)

my guess is some big players or whales have heard wind of giant regulations incoming soon from IMF and yellen will be moved ahead of schedule - and its probably bad enough they decided not to stick around since fiat is still technically king. 

so if fiat starts failing with hyperinflation, guess where the tax comes from to balance fiat out again, btc businesses, exchanges, and others 40%+ tax rates on each transaction! pay for that failing fiat boys!!! wooooo.  there is no stopping fiat, fiat is king, as I said many times the treasury of each government in the world is the true power and they will never allow themselves to be undermined.



trog100 said:


> down to 50K now.. kind of similar to what happened at 40K only bigger.. first they move loads of coin onto an exchange ready for a big sell off.. then they sell..
> 
> interesting stuff..
> 
> trog



I guess someone wanted to buy something big but needed Fiat to do so?


----------



## trog100 (Feb 22, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> HERE COMES THE CRASH BOYS !!!  59K LAST NIGHT NOW WE AT 49K A COIN AND ETHEREUM WAS ALMOST 2K A COIN NOW ALMOST UNDER 1600
> 
> LOLOL   tumble tumble tumble


 its all planned and deliberate lynx.. it will soon be back up over 60K and they will do the same thing at 80K.. 

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 22, 2021)

trog100 said:


> its all planned and deliberate lynx.. it will soon be back up over 60K and they will do the same thing at 80K..
> 
> trog



exactly, there are no regulations on it. it's probably a feint by a big whale, I agree.

but it doesn't change the fact when fiat starts to fail, y'all going to be paying the bill to fix it right up.   as I said above:

"so if fiat starts failing with hyperinflation, guess where the tax comes from to balance fiat out again, btc businesses, exchanges, and others 40%+ tax rates on each transaction! pay for that failing fiat boys!!! wooooo. there is no stopping fiat, fiat is king, as I said many times the treasury of each government in the world is the true power and they will never allow themselves to be undermined"


----------



## kayjay010101 (Feb 22, 2021)

Looks to be bouncing back a bit now


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 22, 2021)

kayjay010101 said:


> Looks to be bouncing back a bit now



it's all good, yellen and IMF going to make sure everything you buy with BTC is heavily taxed just like cigs and weed lol. you will make sure fiat doesn't fail for us, so I hope it does go to the moon as they say.  fiat needs saving and extra sources of tax revenue.


----------



## kayjay010101 (Feb 22, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> it's all good, yellen and IMF going to make sure everything you buy with BTC is heavily taxed just like cigs and weed lol. you will make sure fiat doesn't fail for us, so I hope it does go to the moon as they say.  fiat needs saving and extra sources of tax revenue.


I'm not American  Your politics do not concern me.

PS. Hive seems to be paying out a F-ton right now, I just doubled my estimated earnings from my rig in the last hour. From 0.01 ETH per 24h (which was worth ~21USD) to 0.02453 ETH per 24H (now worth 42.25 USD!). I'm sure it won't last long but it's nice to look at lol


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 22, 2021)

kayjay010101 said:


> I'm not American  Your politics do not concern me.
> 
> PS. Hive seems to be paying out a F-ton right now, I just doubled my estimated earnings from my rig in the last hour. From 0.01 ETH per 24h (which was worth ~21USD) to 0.02453 ETH per 24H (now worth 42.25 USD!). I'm sure it won't last long but it's nice to look at lol



ah you think I was referring to America yeah?  hehehe.  I assure you treasuries of all world governments could care less about politics, they know they hold the true power. I assure you all of them will tax it heavily eventually. 

say you to go to a place that does food/berage of 7% tax on fiat, if you pay in fiat its still 7% but in BTC it will be 25%.  this is the future imo.


----------



## kayjay010101 (Feb 22, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> ah you think I was referring to America yeah?  hehehe.  I assure you treasuries of all world governments could care less about politics, they know they hold the true power. I assure you all of them will tax it heavily eventually.
> 
> say you to go to a place that does food/berage of 7% tax on fiat, if you pay in fiat its still 7% but in BTC it will be 25%.  this is the future imo.


Sales tax isn't normal outside the US, btw. The only thing they could do here is charge a crypto fee, which concievably could happen, sure.
I don't really care though, I'm just in it to make a quick buck ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 22, 2021)

kayjay010101 said:


> Sales tax isn't normal outside the US, btw. The only thing they could do here is charge a crypto fee, which concievably could happen, sure.
> I don't really care though, I'm just in it to make a quick buck ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Taxes that didn't exist before will exist once fiat begins to fail.
Indeed, everyone is looking to make a quick buck. That's why it's all going to fail, fiat and crypto alike. I expect a gallon of milk to cost 5 dollars before end of 2023. It was 98 cents a gallon 2 years ago, now its 3 dollars a gallon.

Up up and away!


----------



## trog100 (Feb 22, 2021)

the money printers go brrrr.. when you can simply create new money at the press of a computer key who needs taxes..

this is whats killing fiat nothing else.. when money literally does grow on trees it has little true worth.. hence the coming million dollar bitcoin..

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 22, 2021)

trog100 said:


> the money printers go brrrr.. when you can simply create new money at the press of a computer key who needs taxes..
> 
> this is whats killing fiat nothing else.. when money literally does grow on trees it has little true worth.. hence the coming million dollar bitcoin..
> 
> trog



and once inflation gets bad enough, fiat will have to create new tax revenue from somewhere so that everything doesn't collapse.   mmm yummy yummy bitcoin transactions


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 22, 2021)

I bought more BTC, ETH and LTC this morning during the dip No regrets. I look forward to these dips otherwise it would be a very long boring game of HOLD.


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 22, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> I bought more BTC, ETH and LTC this morning during the dip No regrets. I look forward to these dips otherwise it would be a very long boring game of HOLD.



make sure you are reporting this every year during your countries tax season,


----------



## trog100 (Feb 22, 2021)

governments have lost control of the money printing machines lynx.. a new money system has to be arrived at.. what the f-ck  its gonna be and how we get there nobody knows..

trog


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 22, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> make sure you are reporting this every year during your countries tax season,


Until I cash out it isn't taxable. Unrealized gains.


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 22, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Until I cash out it isn't taxable. Unrealized gains.



let's hope those fiat paid government employees don't start hurting for money then, they might need to raise taxes when it does come time for you to cash out


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 22, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> let's hope those fiat paid government employees don't start hurting for money then, they might need to raise taxes when it does come time for you to cash out


I have no doubt that taxes will be going up especially with the current administration. But no one says I have to hold my assets in an US exchange or that I have to sell my coins in US exchanges. What they do say is I have to announce capital gains. Which of course I would always do...


----------



## phill (Feb 22, 2021)

Less government/politics talk please and more Bitcoin...  

And back we go I've been seeing the rises and falls for the last few days, its unreal!   Profit from the Eth mining will have dropped a little but its still worth doing/going if your into it...


----------



## kapone32 (Feb 22, 2021)

in a regular economy the concept of something that gives you free money would be popular. In a contracted economy where Governments are responsible for the welfare of the people and don't have the money or will to help. Crypto mining becomes it's own industry with every facet of society getting involved. Taking emotion out of the equation there is no sane reason not to do it given certain criteria. 

1. If you work from home and have a Gaming PC it would be a sin to not mine while you are working. 
2. The price is 44,000+ Euros. If it goes up while you are mining your wallet will increase,
3. The price is 44,000- Euros. If the price goes down your mining balance increases as you get more bits mined per second.
4. You don't have to spend uber amounts of money (GPUs are hard to find but you can get them without a bot near MSRP).
5. There are more than just computers mining but investment houses and corporations are actively trading in the space. 
6. Nice Hash is literally 3 or 4 mouse clicks and your all setup.
7. The exchange is in different denominations so while the Euro is strong make your wallet Euros, While the US is strong do that. If you follow money markets you could make a higher profit by changing this periodically (If you know what you are doing). 
8. When I started looking at it it was $30,000 Euros (That was a week ago)
9. They talk about this everyday on CNBC and BNN.
10. It is inexorably driving the GPU market bananas but that means that plenty of us have made money selling old cards for the same or more than we paid for them.

** If you live in Canada you can get a TFSA that you put in a little now and one of those BITCOIN funds mushrooms (smile all the way as your interest would be completely tax free.)

I would not be at all surprised if by the end of 2021 we are over $100,000 per coin. 

If you bought $1000 of AMD stock in 2016 and it increased by 900% in value per share. How much money would you have today. If you lived


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 22, 2021)

There are 2 rules of BTC.

1.) HODL!!!
2.) Buy The Dip!


----------



## trog100 (Feb 22, 2021)

phill said:


> Less government/politics talk please and more Bitcoin...
> 
> And back we go I've been seeing the rises and falls for the last few days, its unreal!   Profit from the Eth mining will have dropped a little but its still worth doing/going if your into it...


 
for reasons unknown to me my nicehash payout has gone up by about 100% over the last hour or so.. it got as high as 75 dollars per day.. its currently around 60 dollars per day..

it was between 35 and 40 dollars per day.. i am guessing the nice hash conversion process cant handle big rapid changes..

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 22, 2021)

forget who it was I was talking with on here a couple days ago, about the problem with Bitcoin when mining stops.

well, Bitcoin Cash seemed to solve that problem while still remaining everything else about Bitcoin, so what is the main thing holding Bitcoin Cash back? just a bad reputation? it seems like it could be the next big thing, its literally Bitcoin but with the problems like high fees, fixed.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 22, 2021)

I think LTC is a better ALT than BCH.


----------



## phill (Feb 22, 2021)

trog100 said:


> for reasons unknown to me my nicehash payout has gone up by about 100% over the last hour or so.. it got as high as 75 dollars per day.. its currently around 60 dollars per day..
> 
> it was between 35 and 40 dollars per day.. i am guessing the nice hash conversion process cant handle big rapid changes..
> 
> trog


I keep a tab open for the dips and rises just to see what sort of state it has on the profitablity, since we are largely keeping to the same power usage and hashrate and the difference today has been mental.  I've seen it nearly hit 600% profit at the lowest and about 10 minutes ago, it's hit over 950%.  It's very strange....

I'm guessing the Nicehash will update accordingly but it's always great seeing such high numbers lol


----------



## trog100 (Feb 23, 2021)

this crypto price crash is entirely artificial.. f2pool and a bunch of whales arrange a large sell off to drive the price down.. when it bottoms they will all rush back in and scoop up the lower priced winnings.. 

long term the only way is up and these f-ckers know it.. those in the know will treat it as buying opportunity.. 

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 23, 2021)

trog100 said:


> this crypto price crash is entirely artificial.. f2pool and a bunch of whales arrange a large sell off to drive the price down.. when it bottoms they will all rush back in and scoop up the lower priced winnings..
> 
> long term the only way is up and these f-ckers know it.. those in the know will treat it as buying opportunity..
> 
> trog



this is exactly why regulations exist in the stock markets of the world.  and is also exactly why yellen and IMF and others are going to tax the living crap out of all exchanges, banks, and businesses that allow cryptocurrency.  it will just take time, government is slow but it will happen.


----------



## Vya Domus (Feb 23, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> There are 2 rules of BTC.
> 
> 1.) HODL!!!
> 2.) Buy The Dip!



3). Lose almost all of your money when it finally collapses beyond recovery.

That day will come, it's unnatural and unsustainable for an asset to have fast unlimited growth. There is only so much money out there in the world that can be poured into it, it has to taper out eventually, a permanent crash is inevitable. You can definitely make money from bitcoin but you have to cash out your profits frequently to be safe.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 23, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> 3). Lose almost all of your money when it finally collapses beyond recovery.
> 
> That day will come, it's unnatural and unsustainable for an asset to have fast unlimited growth. There is only so much money out there in the world that can be poured into it, it has to taper out eventually, a permanent crash is inevitable. You can definitely make money from bitcoin but you have to cash out your profits frequently to be safe.


We've been here before and we will be here again. Buy the dip, don't listen to all the salt. And let's say they do "Tax the crap" out of transactions or whatever with the devaluation of the dollar on the global market and global hyper-inflation means crypto and hard commodities (gold, silver...) will only continue to strengthen. So it's better to have more money/wealth in any other form then sitting in a bank or in paper currency. Even if they do tax the crap out of it a gain is still a gain.

It won't taper out, what you describe is called stabalization. Eventually the frequency of swings will diminish and it will start looking like Tether. What that price point will once stablized I have no idea, but it certainly won't be zero. There is simply just to much money behind it now.


----------



## trog100 (Feb 23, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> 3). Lose almost all of your money when it finally collapses beyond recovery.
> 
> That day will come, it's unnatural and unsustainable for an asset to have fast unlimited growth. There is only so much money out there in the world that can be poured into it, it has to taper out eventually, a permanent crash is inevitable. You can definitely make money from bitcoin but you have to cash out your profits frequently to be safe.



just make sure you dont cash out and hold the US dollar or any other fiat currency.. buy ( and hold ) real stuff that is of real value..

trog


----------



## Colddecked (Feb 23, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> There are 2 rules of BTC.
> 
> 1.) HODL!!!
> 2.) Buy The Dip!



2) Sell the peak, then buy the dip. 

Been here before, I shouldve seen this coming a mile away...


----------



## Vya Domus (Feb 23, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> We've been here before and we will be here again. Buy the dip, don't listen to all the salt.


No salt, just rational thought.

Everyone will be happy making profit, until they wont.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 23, 2021)

trog100 said:


> just make sure you dont cash out and hold the US dollar or any other fiat currency.. buy ( and hold ) real stuff that is of real value..
> 
> trog



Agree 100%! The currencies around the world are getting weaker every day. The debt ceiling is going up, up ,up and away. Pretty soon all that money you saved in your bank account will buy you a nice loaf of bread. Buy crypto or hard commodities that go up when inflation goes up.


----------



## Vya Domus (Feb 23, 2021)

Currencies are getting weaker because of inflation and whatnot but they rarely, if ever, go down by 10% in 24H or worse. Or go up 10% for that matter.


----------



## mouacyk (Feb 23, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Currencies are getting weaker because of inflation and whatnot but they rarely, if ever, go down by 10% in 24H or worse. Or go up 10% for that matter.


If fiat currencies don't inflate during a pandemic, a lot more people are going to suffer.  Inflation is likely happening globally right now, more so in harder-hit countries.  Once the fog clears, it will be interesting to see how things settle.


----------



## kapone32 (Feb 23, 2021)

mouacyk said:


> If fiat currencies don't inflate during a pandemic, a lot more people are going to suffer.  Inflation is likely happening globally right now, more so in harder-hit countries.  Once the fog clears, it will be interesting to see how things settle.


Also sad in a lot of ways.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 23, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Currencies are getting weaker because of inflation and whatnot but they rarely, if ever, go down by 10% in 24H or worse. Or go up 10% for that matter.


Yeah they do. Just as 1 example compare the USD to CAD in the last year. $1.44 to $1.25 that is more than 10%...13.2%. AND if the USD wasn't also weakening it would be even worse because Canada has also been spending a butt-load of money and printing just like the US. It's a global dilution of fiat currency.


----------



## Vya Domus (Feb 23, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Yeah they do. Just as 1 example compare the USD to CAD in the last year. $1.44 to $1.25 that is more than 10%...13.2%. AND if the USD wasn't also weakening it would be even worse because Canada has also been spending a butt-load of money and printing just like the US. It's a global dilution of fiat currency.



Maybe you didn't read what I said carefully enough, I am talking *within 24H* not within a year. Big difference.

Look, bitcoin is good if you just want to try and make some profit from it, that's all this is about anyway despite what everyone claims. But as an actual alternative to fiat it's a joke, it's a nightmare to try and fund some big project for example using crypto. Even if it's value is projected to go up year-to-year the fact that you can't count on it to not drop by 20% any day in between makes it unusable in practice.


----------



## trog100 (Feb 23, 2021)

modern monetary theory says if you want some more just print it..  money machines go brrr brrr brrr.. inflation kicks in followed by a crack up boom and then hyper inflation as people rush to buy stuff while they still can.. 

trog


----------



## Vya Domus (Feb 23, 2021)

And the GPUs and ASICs out there don't go "brrrrr" as well to mine away the coins ? Or does that not count ?


----------



## kapone32 (Feb 23, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> And the GPUs and ASICs out there don't go "brrrrr" as well to mine away the coins ? Or does that not count ?


As long as mining provides more profit than the cost of electricity it is academic (Once started).


----------



## trog100 (Feb 23, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> And the GPUs and ASICs out there don't go "brrrrr" as well to mine away the coins ? Or does that not count ?



they do but as yet bitcoin is not the worlds reserve currencies the dollar is..

i admit to being in crypto just for the money and maybe cos its interesting.. but i am also interested in what is happening to the dollar..  its currently in its death throws..

i have never really defended crypto i just say in dollar term it has to keep going up.. which is just another way of saying the dollar has to keep going down..

trog

ps.. at first printing more money is the easy answer.. no government can resist it.. once started it not easy to stop in fact its probably impossible.. he he


----------



## xkm1948 (Feb 23, 2021)

trog100 said:


> they do but as yet bitcoin is not the worlds reserve currencies the dollar is..
> 
> i admit to being in crypto just for the money and maybe cos it interesting.. but i am also interested in what is happening to the dollar..  its currently in its death throws..
> 
> ...




How much did you buy for this round of dipping?


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 23, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Maybe you didn't read what I said carefully enough, I am talking *within 24H* not within a year. Big difference.
> 
> Look, bitcoin is good if you just want to try and make some profit from it, that's all this is about anyway despite what everyone claims. But as an actual alternative to fiat it's a joke, it's a nightmare to try and fund some big project for example using crypto. Even if it's value is projected to go up year-to-year the fact that you can't count on it to not drop by 20% any day in between makes it unusable in practice.



You're right I missed the 24H point but I will say if there was a chart available I would bet when the USD started in 1792 it swung pretty crazily on the daily. Give crypto another 200 years and I bet it's stable. LOL. Funny, but my point is Fiat has been around for 100's of years so yeah it's pretty stable and rightly so. But crypto when compared to fiat (head-to-head) is in it's infancy. Infants can be all smiles on second and then bamm crying and throwing a fit. Just wait until crypto grows up!


----------



## trog100 (Feb 23, 2021)

xkm1948 said:


> How much did you buy for this round of dipping?



i stopped buying back in 2018.. i basally lost interest.. i still have the 2017 hardware and its currently mining nicehash.. i also still have the small stash i acquired  back in 2017/18.. 

i could buy and sell but i cant be arsed.. i do keep up with whats going on though..

trog


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 23, 2021)

I have a couple limit orders in for Eth at $1400 and BTC at $45k. I missed ETH at $1300 at 3:30am.


----------



## Chomiq (Feb 23, 2021)

Meanwhile at Tesla... https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56174404


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Feb 23, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> Meanwhile at Tesla... https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56174404



Well, the 1.5 Billion BTC purchase is certainly a thing. But TSLA has plenty of other, unrelated issues compared to BTC. So its kind of tangential. Musk has been shilling cryptocoins for the past few weeks though, so maybe TSLA / BTC is more related than anyone feels comfortable about...

I wonder if the current dip is because of: https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/202...rrency-trading-platform-bitfinexs-illegal?ref

I've had friends ask me whether or not to trust Bitfinex as an exchange, so they're definitely getting big.


----------



## Vya Domus (Feb 23, 2021)

It's funny because just a few days ago I was talking with someone who was convinced Tether is completely safe and stable and that everything was FUD, there is certainly a level of delusion amongst the crypto group.


----------



## mouacyk (Feb 23, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> It's funny because just a few days ago I was talking with someone who was convinced Tether is completely safe and stable and that everything was FUD, there is certainly a level of delusion amongst the crypto group.


That someone is the ostrich with its head in the sand.  Probably not even aware that an investigation is ongoing.  And then the general incompetence to understand how much unbacked Tether was pumped into BTC and other coins back in November to drive its initial resurgence.  Most people probably skipped the article, because it was too long.


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Feb 23, 2021)

mouacyk said:


> Probably not even aware that an investigation is ongoing.



To be fair, the investigation is done as of today... so its definitely not "ongoing" anymore.


----------



## mouacyk (Feb 23, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> To be fair, the investigation is done as of today... so its definitely not "ongoing" anymore.


Thanks.  That would explain the 10K BTC drop overnight.


----------



## trog100 (Feb 24, 2021)

mouacyk said:


> Thanks.  That would explain the 10K BTC drop overnight.



the sudden price drops are caused by whales doing organized sell offs nothing else.. the more they do this the less effective it becomes.. long term it dosnt mean much..

it took one hell of a dump to drive the price down this time and more and more people are getting wise to it..

trog


----------



## hat (Feb 25, 2021)

And BTC is still hovering around 50k. Did I miss something, or did BTC not even take much of a hit?


----------



## trog100 (Feb 25, 2021)

hat said:


> And BTC is still hovering around 50k. Did I miss something, or did BTC not even take much of a hit?



it got up to 58K and was then knocked down to 47K.. its now running between 49 and 50K.. for reasons unknown the whales seem to want to keep it at 50k or so.. they are still dumping enough coin to do this..

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 28, 2021)

trog100 said:


> it got up to 58K and was then knocked down to 47K.. its now running between 49 and 50K.. for reasons unknown the whales seem to want to keep it at 50k or so.. they are still dumping enough coin to do this..
> 
> trog



bitcoin at 43k, ethereum at 1300 and still crashing.  hodl boys!!! lol... tesla just lost all their profit they made last year unless bitcoin goes back up past what elon bought it for... lol i bet his boardmembers are not very happy with him right now


----------



## trog100 (Feb 28, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> bitcoin at 43k, ethereum at 1300 and still crashing.  hodl boys!!! lol... tesla just lost all their profit they made last year unless bitcoin goes back up past what elon bought it for... lol i bet his boardmembers are not very happy with him right now



the hodl boys will still have it when it goes back up as i am sure it will.. having said that a stock market sell off (crash) could affect it.. 

i think elon is still in profit i aint sure but i recon he bought in around 30K.. 

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 28, 2021)

trog100 said:


> the hodl boys will still have it when it goes back up as i am sure it will.. having said that a stock market sell off (crash) could affect it..
> 
> i think elon is still in profit i aint sure but i recon he bought in around 30K..
> 
> trog



looks like he bought in at around 39k, so yeah you are right he is still in clear but not for much longer.

so when people say buy the dip which dip do they mean? the first, second, third?


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Feb 28, 2021)

When you make $1.5 billion purchases, it becomes hard to enter or exit those positions. If TSLA sold all $1.5 billion of BTC today, it'd crash the price below 35k, maybe lower.

When you buy, the asset goes up in response to your buy. And sell for vice versa.

It's a relatively small market with low liquidity. That's why the price moves so much. Just like auction house art pieces


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 28, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> When you make $1.5 billion purchases, it becomes hard to enter or exit those positions. If TSLA sold all $1.5 billion of BTC today, it'd crash the price below 35k, maybe lower.
> 
> When you buy, the asset goes up in response to your buy. And sell for vice versa.
> 
> It's a relatively small market with low liquidity. That's why the price moves so much. Just like auction house art pieces



one of the whales must have sold to drive it this low this fast, so who was it? not so easy to find out.


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Feb 28, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> one of the whales must have sold to drive it this low this fast, so who was it? not so easy to find out.



GBTC can't sell (at least... by my understanding), but them trading at a severe discount shows that Wall Street had no appetite for BTC at this price range. I'm assuming various BTC ETFs are selling.

The first big sell happened on the day of the Bitfinex settlement with New York. I'd assume that's the event that spooked the cryptocoin market.


----------



## trog100 (Feb 28, 2021)

from what i can gather the selling is coming from f2pool.. it seem to be a deliberate attempt at driving the price down.. 

kind of a pump and dump without the pump.. it does its own pumping.. 

a while back it went down from 40K to 28K.. from there it shot back up to 58K.. if it follows the same pattern this time when it shoots back up it will be to 90K.. 

but who know for sure.. time will tell.. 

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 28, 2021)

trog100 said:


> from what i can gather the selling is coming from f2pool.. it seem to be a deliberate attempt at driving the price down..
> 
> kind of a pump and dump without the pump.. it does its own pumping..
> 
> ...



if pump and dump truly is going on, I wonder if yellen and IMF will ever try to target those wallets owners and ban their passports, etc. will be interesting to see how all of this plays out in the coming years.


----------



## trog100 (Feb 28, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> if pump and dump truly is going on, I wonder if yellen and IMF will ever try to target those wallets owners and ban their passports, etc. will be interesting to see how all of this plays out in the coming years.



f2pool is a chinese mining pool.. a bit beyond the control of yellen and the imf.. its been possible to find out where all the selling is coming from but not the individual sellers..

its not really pump and dump just big players who own enough bitcoin to manipulate the market when it suits them..  good advice is to play the game along with them.. dont be scared into panic selling buy the dip and hdl...  i am not buying but then again i am not selling..

but as you say it will be interesting watching how it all plays out..

trog

ps.. the people involved now are not geeks in a basement they are big institutions and maybe even governments..


----------



## xkm1948 (Feb 28, 2021)

I mean not jusr crypto, every major investment are going downwards.


----------



## yotano211 (Feb 28, 2021)

xkm1948 said:


> I mean not jusr crypto, every major investment are going downwards.


Time to buy more Mastercard or visa stocks.


----------



## xkm1948 (Mar 1, 2021)

I like TPU's new front page ad haha


----------



## yotano211 (Mar 2, 2021)

xkm1948 said:


> I like TPU's new front page ad haha
> 
> View attachment 190510


I dont see it


----------



## Metroid (Mar 2, 2021)

This crypto bubble market will crash so hard, in 2018 it crashed 95%, this time will be 99%.


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 2, 2021)

Metroid said:


> This crypto bubble market will crash so hard, in 2018 it crashed 95%, this time will be 99%.


You think so?

Because if it crashed so hard, i doubt it would have gained like it did again.

Seems to be a more hard cycle of pump and dumps, then cycle repeats.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Mar 2, 2021)

Metroid said:


> This crypto bubble market will crash so hard, in 2018 it crashed 95%, this time will be 99%.



Hey could you also look into your crystal ball and let me know the next powerball picks.


----------



## mouacyk (Mar 2, 2021)

Backed By Nothing: How Tether Created the Largest Market Bubble, and Fraud Scheme in History. | by Jacob King | Jan, 2021 | Medium
In case anyone hasn't seen/read it yet.  Be interested to actually read some refutation to it.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Mar 2, 2021)

I have avoided tether like the plague. The fact is it is a token and more can be created with a few keystrokes. There is no mining for coins...tokens are issued. I also questioned their 1-1 claim and that was when tethers market cap was around 4 Billion. The fact it is now Pushing 40 Billion is pretty much bullshit. There is ZERO chance they have 40 Billion in "reserves" and I doubt they have ever been able to back it 1-1. I don't doubt they have used this massive market cap to buy up a ton of BTC and ETH. But that isn't the same as being backed by fiat. Stay away.


----------



## hat (Mar 2, 2021)

You know, I kind of hope it DOES crash, even though I have a not-insignificant amount of Bitcoin stocked up right now. It would be fun to build a real miner (which would also do other things) even if it only seems to produce bullocks for a few years...


----------



## Metroid (Mar 2, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> I have avoided tether like the plague. The fact is it is a token and more can be created with a few keystrokes. There is no mining for coins...tokens are issued. I also questioned their 1-1 claim and that was when tethers market cap was around 4 Billion. The fact it is now Pushing 40 Billion is pretty much bullshit. There is ZERO chance they have 40 Billion in "reserves" and I doubt they have ever been able to back it 1-1. I don't doubt they have used this massive market cap to buy up a ton of BTC and ETH. But that isn't the same as being backed by fiat. Stay away.


USDC is the answer to that, usdc is audited, usdt is not.


----------



## mouacyk (Mar 2, 2021)

Metroid said:


> USDC is the answer to that, usdc is audited, usdt is not.


Isn't it quite late now?  BTC is overly and grossly inflated with unbacked Tethers.  It's probably not as insolvent as Tether is feared to be, but it could be near 72% (since increase from ~$13K)? According to that graph, Tether was being pumped into BTC even before the 13K mark prior to the November 2020 resurgence.  Heck, you could probably say that over $3K, BTC is inflated and backed by nothing, going back to BTC's low in 2018.


----------



## Metroid (Mar 3, 2021)

mouacyk said:


> Isn't it quite late now?  BTC is overly and grossly inflated with unbacked Tethers.  It's probably not as insolvent as Tether is feared to be, but it could be near 72% (since increase from ~$13K)? According to that graph, Tether was being pumped into BTC even before the 13K mark prior to the November 2020 resurgence.  Heck, you could probably say that over $3K, BTC is inflated and backed by nothing, going back to BTC's low in 2018.


Yes, agreed, usdt token creation from nothing was the cause of it, manipulators are behind it.


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 3, 2021)

can someone please explain to me how elon musk tweets this and also buys 1.5 billion bitcoin at same time and trolls doge coin weekly?  honestly he confuses the literal crap out of me.  if he thinks bitcoin is a scam like he says in this tweet, how does he defend buying 1.5 billion worth at the next Tesla shareholder meeting?


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 3, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> can someone please explain to me how elon musk tweets this and also buys 1.5 billion bitcoin at same time and trolls doge coin weekly?  honestly he confuses the literal crap out of me.  if he thinks bitcoin is a scam like he says in this tweet, how does he defend buying 1.5 billion worth at the next Tesla shareholder meeting?


Or makes it possible to buy Tesla's with BTC.

He is a troll himself. A rich one.


----------



## jaggerwild (Mar 3, 2021)

Didn't somebody else just dump a ton of money into this also(not Musk), plus the banks now getting into it as they regulated it or something?


----------



## trog100 (Mar 3, 2021)

from what i gather f2pool or whales on f2pool are selling bitcoin in an attempt to drive the price down below 50k and keep it there.. the reasons are unknown..

but buying pressure is too great the whales are losing the battle.. its costing them lots of money.. they cant keep it up for much longer..

bitcoin is universal no country can control it which is why its so desirable.. more and more people are realizing bitcoin is here to stay and more and more people want in on the act.. bitcoin is unstoppable..

f2pool is a large chinese mining pool but its not just for the chinese..

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 4, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> I have avoided tether like the plague. The fact is it is a token and more can be created with a few keystrokes. There is no mining for coins...tokens are issued.



didn't you just tell me last week once all 21 million bitcoins are mined, bitcoin will need to use tokens for its transactions since it currently relies on mining for transactions....


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Mar 4, 2021)

BTC is an unreplenishable commodity or value store. The others, tokens, can be created in the billions by tapping on a few keys. Big difference and very artificial. The only value they hold is by the limited release of tokens in number, once the value is up to a certain point they likely will release more and dilute the pool. Since the token has gained in populatiry that drop in price from flooding the market with more tokens should rise again and now the Market Cap of that token goes up. BUT the only people getting rich as F off this are the people/companies who create the tokens.

Also, that isn't what I said. The only "tokens" being used for transactioins will be blocks of Satoshi which are = BTC as are pennies to the dollor. Except 1 btc is 100,000,000 satoshi's.


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 4, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> BTC is an unreplenishable commodity or value store. The others, tokens, can be created in the billions by tapping on a few keys. Big difference and very artificial. The only value they hold is by the limited release of tokens in number, once the value is up to a certain point they likely will release more and dilute the pool. Since the token has gained in populatiry that drop in price from flooding the market with more tokens should rise again and now the Market Cap of that token goes up. BUT the only people getting rich as F off this are the people/companies who create the tokens.
> 
> Also, that isn't what I said. The only "tokens" being used for transactioins will be blocks of Satoshi which are = BTC as are pennies to the dollor. Except 1 btc is 100,000,000 satoshi's.




no worries, I appreciate you trying to explain it to me I just don't get it. what gives bitcoin it's value is that it is stand alone with no outside influence and requires the mining on the blockchain for transactions. it's no big deal, i was merely curious, but it hurts my head to trying to figure out if what your saying will work in practice or not. so eh im just gonna move on now, i hope all of you get very rich, truly i do. this world just isn't for me


----------



## Outback Bronze (Mar 4, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> commodity


 I'm not so sure its a commodity, probably more a long the lines of a asset now.



lynx29 said:


> what gives bitcoin it's value



Just like anything else, its only worth what someone is willing to pay.


----------



## AsRock (Mar 4, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> I'm not so sure its a commodity, probably more a long the lines of a asset now.
> 
> 
> 
> Just like anything else, its only worth what someone is willing to pay.



Until it disappears, lets face it you have no proof of owning it.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Mar 4, 2021)

Not to be pedantic, well okay maybe a little.  But a commodity is literally defined as - Grain, precious metals, electricity, oil, beef, orange juice, and natural gas are traditional *examples* of *commodities*, but foreign currencies, emissions credits, bandwidth, and certain financial instruments are also part of today's *commodity* markets.


----------



## Outback Bronze (Mar 4, 2021)

AsRock said:


> Until it disappears, lets face it you have no proof of owning it.


 Does my wallet address show proof of me owning it?


----------



## Chomiq (Mar 4, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> can someone please explain to me how elon musk tweets this and also buys 1.5 billion bitcoin at same time and trolls doge coin weekly?  honestly he confuses the literal crap out of me.  if he thinks bitcoin is a scam like he says in this tweet, how does he defend buying 1.5 billion worth at the next Tesla shareholder meeting?


He's the biggest scammer of them all. One hashtag from him made bitcoin jump 17%.


----------



## Outback Bronze (Mar 4, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Not to be pedantic, well okay maybe a little.  But a commodity is literally defined as - Grain, precious metals, electricity, oil, beef, orange juice, and natural gas are traditional *examples* of *commodities*, but foreign currencies, emissions credits, bandwidth, and certain financial instruments are also part of today's *commodity* markets.


 Is BTC a Raw Good?


----------



## R0H1T (Mar 4, 2021)

BTC's anything you'd probably like it to be, including but not limited to human greed.


----------



## Caring1 (Mar 4, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> Does my wallet address show proof of me owning it?


No, a wallet address only shows you have a wallet, not the contents or ownership.



Outback Bronze said:


> Is BTC a Raw Good?


It's not a tangible asset you can physically hold.


----------



## Outback Bronze (Mar 4, 2021)

R0H1T said:


> BTC's anything you'd probably like it to be, including but not limited to human greed.



This is why I class it more like my house, an asset. It has a market value and is only worth what somebody is willing to pay.



Caring1 said:


> No, a wallet address only shows you have a wallet, not the contents or ownership.



But I have the private keys to this wallet. Still not good enough for proof of ownership?



Caring1 said:


> It's not a tangible asset you can physically hold.



Yes this is true. Can it be classed as a virtual asset then?


----------



## AsRock (Mar 4, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> This is why I class it more like my house, an asset. It has a market value and is only worth what somebody is will to pay.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



virtual asset's\items you virtually don't really have which was explained by caring1,


----------



## Outback Bronze (Mar 4, 2021)

AsRock said:


> virtual asset's\items you virtually don't really have which was explained by caring1,


 
So what about exchanges. Do they show proof of what you own? They need personal details etc these days.

Its a cool mate, im not trying to start an argument here. I would just like to find out personal facts about this industry.


----------



## AsRock (Mar 4, 2021)

same here, don't trust any thing that is not physical, just like i don't trust any of my games be there tomorrow.


----------



## Chomiq (Mar 4, 2021)

In other news:








						Crypto mining's upcoming ban in Inner Mongolia may help explain Bitcoin's recent resurgence
					

Inner Mongolia is an autonomous region of China with an economy best known for cheap power. It has thus reportedly become a magnet for cryptocurrency miners. Apparently, the region does not appreciate this attention, having just outlawed the practice.




					www.notebookcheck.net


----------



## trog100 (Mar 4, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> In other news:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



this is connected to the sell offs coming from f2pool they have mining farms in several threatened chinese areas inner Mongolia being one of them.. its still just a theory though an attempt to explain why sell offs are still comimg from f2pool when the rest of the world is buying....

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 5, 2021)

apparently when Ethereum forks into version 2.0 gpu mining ethereum will be worthless... what do you all think about this? and how far off is this fork 2.0?









						Analyst: buying a high-end graphics card for mining would be "very foolish"
					

In JPR's latest report on the PC market, it notes that "the pandemic has distorted all models and predictions as has the gold-rush in Ethereum."




					www.techspot.com


----------



## Outback Bronze (Mar 5, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> apparently when Ethereum forks into version 2.0 gpu mining ethereum will be worthless... what do you all think about this? and how far off is this fork 2.0?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Roughly a couple of years. Its moving to PoS rather than the current PoW.


----------



## yotano211 (Mar 5, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> apparently when Ethereum forks into version 2.0 gpu mining ethereum will be worthless... what do you all think about this? and how far off is this fork 2.0?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They can always mine zcash. During the last mining boom some years ago, I switched from ETH to zcash since I was making more with zcash and zcash likes Nvidia more than AMD cards. It could be different in todays mining market.


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 5, 2021)

yotano211 said:


> They can always mine zcash. During the last mining boom some years ago, I switched from ETH to zcash since I was making more with zcash and zcash likes Nvidia more than AMD cards. It could be different in todays mining market.


Essentially when mining with nicehash, they will switch to whichever is profitable for GPU's.  ETH right now is, but as stated by Yotano, zcash may end up being the next one.

Essentially any of these coins are simply a way to gain access to BTC. Hence called altcoins.  ETH, ZCoin, Etc.  With Trex it seems to mine octopus right now. I still get less from that than ETH so I switched back to Phoenix miner.  Give it a few years and something else will be profitable for miners.


----------



## Vya Domus (Mar 5, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> He is a troll himself.



Not a troll, grade A manipulator.


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 5, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Not a troll, grade A manipulator.


Is there really a big difference between the two?  Trolling is another form of manipulation In my view. But I can be very wrong on that.


----------



## Vya Domus (Mar 5, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Is there really a big difference between the two?  Trolling is another form of manipulation In my view. But I can be very wrong on that.



 A troll just wants to see chaos, this guy is all about one thing : money.


----------



## yotano211 (Mar 5, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Essentially when mining with nicehash, they will switch to whichever is profitable for GPU's.  ETH right now is, but as stated by Yotano, zcash may end up being the next one.
> 
> Essentially any of these coins are simply a way to gain access to BTC. Hence called altcoins.  ETH, ZCoin, Etc.  With Trex it seems to mine octopus right now. I still get less from that than ETH so I switched back to Phoenix miner.  Give it a few years and something else will be profitable for miners.


I was mining with a mining pool instead of nicehash.



Vya Domus said:


> A troll just wants to see chaos, this guy is all about one thing : money.


I think he might be on the edge of a mental breakdown.


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 5, 2021)

yotano211 said:


> I think he might be on the edge of a mental breakdown.



I think he is just starting to become self-aware that he won't live long enough to see people on Mars. The hubris of all men falls eventually.


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 5, 2021)

@yotano211 

When mining with a pool, did you earn a lot more?


----------



## trog100 (Mar 5, 2021)

over the last year the dollar value of bitcoin has gone up by 425% and etherium has gone up by 525%..

if it follows the same pattern over the next year we would be looking at £200,000 bitcoin and $7,500 etherium..

i only started mining again about three months ago.. in retrospect i should never have stopped.. he he..

if it dosnt follow the same pattern who cares.. its still only monopoly money to me..

having said that i still wish i had more of it.. 

trog

ps.. i also see the created out of thin air US dollar as monopoly money.. this monopoly money get taken to Walmart and exchanged for made in china goods...

the chinese have to actually work and make the stuff they exchange for the US monopoly money.. the US now makes bugger all except more monopoly money.. 

there will come a time and it aint far away when the chinese get fed up with swapping their real work for american monopoly money.. the value of the american monopoly money will soon disappear up its own bum.. 

as for war with china.. being as the US has lost its ability to make stuff.. are we gonna buy our tanks and airplanes from Walmart like we buy everything else.. i dont think so.. he he he


----------



## yotano211 (Mar 5, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> @yotano211
> 
> When mining with a pool, did you earn a lot more?


They charged 1%, I think nicehash charges about 5-7% is what I hear.


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 5, 2021)

trog100 said:


> over the last year the dollar value of bitcoin has gone up by 425% and etherium has gone up by 525%..
> 
> if it follows the same pattern over the next year we would be looking at £200,000 bitcoin and $7,500 etherium..
> 
> ...



it's these kind of inaccurate posts that reinforce my belief bitcoin will fall eventually. also side note, 80% of American military gear is made in USA, with some European/Middle East allies help here and there for certain parts, China does very little for our military probably less than 2%. US Dollar isn't created out of thin air, people work and pay taxes generating 3.5 trillion in revenue every year. and like I said before even if you are right, and fiat begins to fail, guess who the treasuries of the world are going to tax the hell out of to balance fiat back out?    even if you somehow bypass using exchanges to dodge it, they will require businesses that allow cryptocurrency to hand over all your information so they can investigate.  (they already do this with a few computers parts companies that accept bitcoin).  so yeah fiat will be ok.  /shrug


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 5, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> it's these kind of inaccurate posts that reinforce my belief bitcoin will fall eventually. also side note, 80% of American military gear is made in USA, with some European/Middle East allies help here and there for certain parts, China does very little for our military probably less than 2%. US Dollar isn't created out of thin air, people work and pay taxes generating 3.5 trillion in revenue every year. and like I said before even if you are right, and fiat begins to fail, guess who the treasuries of the world are going to tax the hell out of to balance fiat back out?    even if you somehow bypass using exchanges to dodge it, they will require businesses that allow cryptocurrency to hand over all your information so they can investigate.  (they already do this with a few computers parts companies that accept bitcoin).  so yeah fiat will be ok.  /shrug


not quite.

It was balanced (budget and debt) back before Bush.  But afterwards, the Fed reserve lending money to the US government has gone near out of control.  It ends up being that the US Debt to GDP is equal (I think it is now above 100%).  US Debt growth equals that to GDP growth mostly due to the fact that this debt is also viewed as investments and that is also a stretch.  Faith in the USD is going down and many countries around the world are looking to trade among their respective currencies and EU is pushing for the Euro even more so in their foreign trades.

If you are unsure, just look up Quantitative Easing.  It is a nice and fancy term for: Borrow lots of money, flood it to the banks and the stock market, in hopes to keep things afloat.

As for military, that is true to some extent.  A lot of the electronics were imported.  Recall the F-35 and the chinese semiconductors Fiasco?  But that is about the last of the US great manufacturing, and even things like kevlar (helmets is perfect example) is made by prisoners at federal prisons.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 5, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> it's these kind of inaccurate posts that reinforce my belief bitcoin will fall eventually. also side note, 80% of American military gear is made in USA, with some European/Middle East allies help here and there for certain parts, China does very little for our military probably less than 2%. US Dollar isn't created out of thin air, people work and pay taxes generating 3.5 trillion in revenue every year. and like I said before even if you are right, and fiat begins to fail, guess who the treasuries of the world are going to tax the hell out of to balance fiat back out?    even if you somehow bypass using exchanges to dodge it, they will require businesses that allow cryptocurrency to hand over all your information so they can investigate.  (they already do this with a few computers parts companies that accept bitcoin).  so yeah fiat will be ok.  /shrug



you are a true patriot lynx but your country really is creating money out of thin air and what i said about the US dollar in a jokey kind of way aint far from the truth.. 

fiat is f-cked which with all the money printing machines going flat out is pretty much inevitable.. what part bitcoin plays in all this i havnt a clue..

just think if the US dollar loses %50 of its buying power over the next year that would mean a $400,000 dollar bitcoin and a $15,000 eth.. 

trog

ps.. another jokey thought.. if china stopped sending all their junk to the US in exchange for the US monopoly money what would the average american be able to buy.. maybe the odd tank or two but not a lot else.. he he


----------



## hat (Mar 5, 2021)

It's not just the dollar. Everyone is creating more fiat "out of nothing". This system we have was already in trouble, and the pandemic just amplified it. 

That said, bitcoin gets its value from where? From fiat. The more bitcoin that is bought, with fiat, the more the value goes up. It goes down if a ton of sold. If fiat implodes, I don't think bitcoin will survive, either. The rich who are investing in it have plenty of other things of value to keep themselves afloat during doom and gloom. I don't think anyone is really counting on bitcoin to save them when the zombies come. Especially since it will be extra worthless when the zombies eat the internet.


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 5, 2021)

hat said:


> It's not just the dollar. Everyone is creating more fiat "out of nothing". This system we have was already in trouble, and the pandemic just amplified it.
> 
> That said, bitcoin gets its value from where? From fiat. The more bitcoin that is bought, with fiat, the more the value goes up. It goes down if a ton of sold. If fiat implodes, I don't think bitcoin will survive, either. The rich who are investing in it have plenty of other things of value to keep themselves afloat during doom and gloom. I don't think anyone is really counting on bitcoin to save them when the zombies come. Especially since it will be extra worthless when the zombies eat the internet.


It is like a Digital gold really.  It will still have its value if Fiat takes a nose dive.  Who knows though.  Maybe it will go up even more if Fiat takes a dive.

Its just to hold onto or buy illegal stuff (or tesla cars or homes in some localities).  If Bitcoin expands even more in what you can purchase with, or used for international trading, then it will really boom.  At least the sanctioned countries probably use it.


----------



## mouacyk (Mar 5, 2021)

By this point, most people in crypto already know what they're doing.  Common sense doesn't apply anymore.  Anyone still thinking of trying to make sense of crypto should put that effort and resource into something that has tangible value.  Regardless, pundits are still trying *really *hard to hit that $100K.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 5, 2021)

hat said:


> It's not just the dollar. Everyone is creating more fiat "out of nothing". This system we have was already in trouble, and the pandemic just amplified it.
> 
> That said, bitcoin gets its value from where? From fiat. The more bitcoin that is bought, with fiat, the more the value goes up. It goes down if a ton of sold. If fiat implodes, I don't think bitcoin will survive, either. The rich who are investing in it have plenty of other things of value to keep themselves afloat during doom and gloom. I don't think anyone is really counting on bitcoin to save them when the zombies come. Especially since it will be extra worthless when the zombies eat the internet.



gold and silver were the traditional safe haven stores of value.. some say they still are.. 60 years or so ago the US dollar was on a gold standard money tokens were linked to something real.. something you cant just create more of as and when it suits you.. we could go back to a gold backed dollar even if it is in digital form.. i doubt we will but its possible.. he who owns the most gold gets the most cash.. china of course owns loads of it..  they have been stashing it for quite some time..

mind you when the zombies eat the internet i think we will all be f-cked.. he he

all i am saying to lynx who thinks the dollar is safe.. is that he is wrong the dollar is far from safe..

trog


----------



## Outback Bronze (Mar 5, 2021)

hat said:


> when the zombies come.



I want to know more about these Zombies!


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 5, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> I want to know more about these Zombies!


You will know soon enough. I heard it starts in Australia.

Or was it Austria?


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Mar 5, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> US Dollar isn't created out of thin air,



Yes they do. 100%. The USD is exactly like crypto tokens. When they need more, the FED prints more and dilutes the value. That is called inflation. We have inflated the pool, by trillions just this year, and devalued the buying power of the USD. Do you think the USD is backed by Gold still?

Just look at this it is so crazy.









						United States National Debt Clock
					

United States National Debt Clock December 2022 - The United States is currently trillions upon trillions of dollars in debt, and much more is expected to be added to their books over the coming years.




					www.davemanuel.com
				




Then look here, proof of inflation, look at Jan 21. - https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=CAD and you might say, oh Canada well pick the EUR, JAP and any major country and it's down for the USD.

Then think about the fact we buy everything from oversea's. Our dollar has less buying power in all those countries, which means we spend more, then have to charge more on the shelves which means you buy less or pay more for the same stuff..it's a never ending downward cycle.


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Mar 5, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> That is called inflation.



Last time I checked, inflation was when the price of goods and services increase. Like in the 1970s or 1980s. Generally speaking, the CPI is the benchmark for this kind of measurement.

GPU prices are up this year, but milk and eggs are actually holding steady. CPI last year was 1.4%, below the inflation targets.



> Then look here, proof of inflation, look at Jan 21. - https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=CAD and you might say, oh Canada well pick the EUR, JAP and any major country and it's down for the USD.



BTC is down $10,000 in the past couple of weeks. Clearly, the price of BTC has nothing to do with how many BTC are being printed. Hell, DOGE coin was going to the moon recently and its a well known fact that DOGEcoins are infinite (unlike BTC which has a 21-million BTC cap).

Different currencies float with different prices due to trade speculation mostly. If Europeans want USD, then USD goes up (relative to Euro). If Americans want Euro, then the opposite: Euro goes up (and USD goes down).


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Mar 5, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> Last time I checked, inflation was when the price of goods and services increase. Like in the 1970s or 1980s. Generally speaking, the CPI is the benchmark for this kind of measurement.
> 
> GPU prices are up this year, but milk and eggs are actually holding steady. CPI last year was 1.4%, below the inflation targets.
> 
> ...


So you don't understand inflation then and the last time you checked you read something wrong. LOL - Also I added bunch to my post so you may have missed some links I posted. But what you are seeing there is inflation.


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Mar 5, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> So you don't understand inflation then and the last time you checked you read something wrong. LOL - Also I added bunch to my post so you may have missed some links I posted. But what you are seeing there is inflation.



You can have inflation without printing money.

You can have deflation even when you print money.

Focusing on the money printer alone causes tunnel vision. There's more to the modern economy than just an on-off switch at the money-printers. Otherwise, infinite-printing coins like DOGE (and lol Tether) will have grossly different behavior than what you might think.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Mar 5, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> You can have inflation without printing money.
> 
> You can have deflation even when you print money.



Sure you, can but that doesn't disprove anything. I already said the value of the dollar is what everyone thinks it is. Well if you look at those charts everyone doesn't think the same that we do, therefore our currecy is deflating because of our inflated take on its value. INcreasing the pool of currency doesn't just "make" us worth that much. We gotta have stuff to back it up with AND everyone has to agree that the stuff is worth that value.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 5, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> Last time I checked, inflation was when the price of goods and services increase. Like in the 1970s or 1980s. Generally speaking, the CPI is the benchmark for this kind of measurement.
> 
> GPU prices are up this year, but milk and eggs are actually holding steady. CPI last year was 1.4%, below the inflation targets.
> 
> ...




google john Williams shadow stats.. 

trog


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Mar 5, 2021)

trog100 said:


> google john Williams shadow stats..
> 
> trog



I generally do what I can to stay away from conspiracy theories.



ZenZimZaliben said:


> So you don't understand inflation then and the last time you checked you read something wrong. LOL - Also I added bunch to my post so you may have missed some links I posted. But what you are seeing there is inflation.








Look at the Gold charts dude. With Gold free-falling since the middle of last year, its really hard to argue that inflation on USD is actually occurring.


----------



## Outback Bronze (Mar 6, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> GPU prices are up this year



They are hard to find.



dragontamer5788 said:


> but milk and eggs are actually holding steady



They are everywhere.

An increase in the supply of money is the root of inflation, but you do have some valid points.


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Mar 6, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> An increase in the supply of money is the root of inflation



What about other factors, such as the velocity of money?


----------



## hat (Mar 6, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> What about other factors, such as the velocity of money?


What does "velocity of money" mean? Other than the speed at which it flies out of my wallet...


----------



## trog100 (Mar 6, 2021)

hat said:


> What does "velocity of money" mean? Other than the speed at which it flies out of my wallet...



how fast it goes around.. the faster it goes around the better the economy does.. i give you money you buy something from joe.. joe buys something from fred with the same money and so on..

but if you just stick it under the mattress it does f-ck all.. or leave it in you wallet come to that.. 

the term conspiracy theorist is just a term for anybody that doesnt go along with the official narrative.. it means f-ck all..

trog

ps.. and if dragontamer wants an example of inflation.. try the stock market.. artificiality pumped up by free money given to the rich and share buy-backs.. odd really but its one place where inflation is considered good.. he he

now this free money is going out in the form of stimulus checks the inflation will show up somewhere else..


----------



## Chomiq (Mar 6, 2021)

John McAfee charged with fraud over cryptocurrency
					

The businessman is accused of promoting cryptocurrency to his followers to inflate prices.



					www.bbc.com
				



Ok please explain to me how's this different from Elon?


> The pair are accused of buying the cryptocurrency assets before promoting them on Twitter, where Mr McAfee has more than one million followers.
> They would then sell the assets as soon as Mr McAfee's endorsements saw prices rise, according to the US justice department and the Commodity Futures Trading Commission.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 6, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> John McAfee charged with fraud over cryptocurrency
> 
> 
> The businessman is accused of promoting cryptocurrency to his followers to inflate prices.
> ...



i dont think it is.. Mcafee is being targeted for reasons unknown to me.. "someone" is out to get him.. it stinks to high heaven..

at a guess i think officialdom sees him as some kind of security risk or he knows more than he should..

trog


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Mar 6, 2021)

hat said:


> What does "velocity of money" mean? Other than the speed at which it flies out of my wallet...



Lets consider a two hypothetical closed systems with only $100 total printed.

Farmer spends $100 on new farm equipment from John Deere. Then, John Deere comes back during Harvest season to give the Farmer $100 for food. $200 of Transactions / year in this example.

Now lets say the Farmer has a crystal ball and sees that a hurricane will wipe out his crops this year.  He's scared, and therefore doesn't plant anything (and doesn't buy anything from John Deere). In this case, the Farmer holds onto his $100 entirely and doesn't do anything. As such, the velocity of money is $0/year. The $100 is still out there, but since it isn't being spent, the economy slows down and enters deflation.

The difference between these two worlds is "Velocity of Money". When the "velocity of money" slows down, you need to print money to counteract the deflationary spiral. When "velocity of money" speeds up, you need to remove cash from the system before the mania takes over.


----------



## hat (Mar 6, 2021)

trog100 said:


> how fast it goes around.. the faster it goes around the better the economy does.. i give you money you buy something from joe.. joe buys something from fred with the same money and so on..
> 
> but if you just stick it under the mattress it does f-ck all.. or leave it in you wallet come to that..
> 
> ...





dragontamer5788 said:


> Lets consider a two hypothetical closed systems with only $100 total printed.
> 
> Farmer spends $100 on new farm equipment from John Deere. Then, John Deere comes back during Harvest season to give the Farmer $100 for food. $200 of Transactions / year in this example.
> 
> ...


Interesting, learned something today.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 9, 2021)

bitcoin is on the way up again currently above 54K and it seems to be holding there.. eth is up over 1.8K and holding..

trog

ps.. eth 18K edited to 1.8K  he he


----------



## xkm1948 (Mar 9, 2021)

trog100 said:


> bitcoin is on the way up again currently above 54K and it seems to be holding there.. eth is up over 18K and holding..
> 
> trog



50k gonna be the new baseline for 2021. I dont think it will massively hike again. but then I know nothing about crypto lol


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Mar 9, 2021)

trog100 said:


> bitcoin is on the way up again currently above 54K and it seems to be holding there.. eth is up over 18K and holding..
> 
> trog


Man I would love Eth to be at 18K hello lambo!


----------



## phill (Mar 9, 2021)

trog100 said:


> bitcoin is on the way up again currently above 54K and it seems to be holding there.. eth is up over 18K and holding..
> 
> trog


Nearly 55k I believe @trog100    Going nuts again!   Eth nearly hitting 1850 I think, last I checked!


----------



## trog100 (Mar 12, 2021)

bitcoin is just under 58K again.. eth at 1825..

my miners (400 m/hs) are now showing a total of $42 dollars per day..

crypto things are looking good.. 

trog


----------



## trog100 (Mar 13, 2021)

Saturday morning bitcoin just shot up over $60K eth is up near £1900

things seem to be on the move again.. whoosh..

trog


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 13, 2021)

Yeah, made $400 in a month with just 1 3070 for 2 weeks and the other 3070 for another 2 weeks. Now all 3 are mining.  Gonna have the one GPU paid for sooner than thought.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 13, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Yeah, made $400 in a month with just 1 3070 for 2 weeks and the other 3070 for another 2 weeks. Now all 3 are mining.  Gonna have the one GPU paid for sooner than thought.



its working out about 10 dollars per 100 m/hs.. i am getting 400 m/hs.. nicehash is paying 7 dollars per 4 hour payment.. 6 payments per 24 hour period.. or just over 40 dollars per day.. 280 dollars per week or 1120 dollars per calendar month.. 

with profits like this it aint surprising that decent graphics cards are fetching the money they are.. whether or not it stays like this i havnt a clue.. only time will tell.. 

trog


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 13, 2021)

trog100 said:


> its working out about 10 dollars per 100 m/hs.. i am getting 400 m/hs.. nicehash is paying 7 dollars per 4 hour payment.. 6 payments per 24 hour period.. or just over 40 dollars per day.. 280 dollars per week or 1120 dollars per calendar month..
> 
> with profits like this it aint surprising that decent graphics cards are fetching the money they are.. whether or not it stays like this i havnt a clue.. only time will tell..
> 
> trog


It will reduce once eth no longer can be mined. Octopus doesn't fetch as much but it will still be profitable. Somewhere around like maybe $100 less a month I presume. Until it jumps in value


----------



## Dinnercore (Mar 13, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> It will reduce once eth no longer can be mined. Octopus doesn't fetch as much but it will still be profitable. Somewhere around like maybe $100 less a month I presume. Until it jumps in value


I know they plan to scrap traditional mining for eth completly but does anyone know a timeline for this? I know that there is a major update scheduled for July that cuts miners off from earning fees but until they merge with 2.0 (which is probably not before 2022) there is still mining going on? I would love for GPUs to drop back atleast close to MSRP but I don't know if the July update will achieve that or just reduce profitability by a certain margin, which may just be offset by the current bull-run.


----------



## xkm1948 (Mar 13, 2021)

BTC now at $60k...


----------



## lexluthermiester (Mar 14, 2021)

xkm1948 said:


> BTC now at $60k...


$61k...


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 14, 2021)

i still don't understand how bitcoin is any different from fiat. when all 21 million coins are mined and in order to complete transactions on the blockchain--- they just start making up tokens... that is the critical point where it is no longer like gold anymore.  eh it's w.e


----------



## xkm1948 (Mar 14, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> i still don't understand how bitcoin is any different from fiat. when all 21 million coins are mined and in order to complete transactions on the blockchain--- they just start making up tokens... that is the critical point where it is no longer like gold anymore.  eh it's w.e


You can print flat in unlimited fashion, that is the problem. The US government is doing exactly that, while wanting the rest of the world to play it along, essentially robbing wealth from other countries.

With crypto coins it acts as gold, only finite amount of it but is quite secure and easy to operate versus gold. The decentralized design decides no single government can just “make more”

It definitely has flaws, but a good step towards more efficient currency system


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 14, 2021)

xkm1948 said:


> You can print flat in unlimited fashion, that is the problem. The US government is doing exactly that, while wanting the rest of the world to play it along, essentially robbing wealth from other countries.
> 
> With crypto coins it acts as gold, only finite amount of it but is quite secure and easy to operate versus gold. The decentralized design decides no single government can just “make more”
> 
> It definitely has flaws, but a good step towards more efficient currency system



in order for a bitcoin transaction to be mined, there has to be miners. when all 21 million coins are mined (already 18 million mined) so 3 million left, once those 3 million are gone, then how are transactions to be completed? I will tell you how, they are going to make up tokens, who is going to make these up? random people that's who. it's no different than fiat once the 3 million left are mined. because the tokens are created out of thin air basically with no oversight.



sepheronx said:


> thanks for your help!
> 
> I am just still kinda worried about the memory as I have it at 1100.  Apparently thats low compared to others with the same exact card doing this (they are doing 1400 or more).  I did the -200 core just to keep things stable.  Temps are now average out to 57C total.
> 
> Do you think this is safe?


 I know you mentioned before about using phoenix miner, just read this on nicehash website:  not sure if its a marketing ploy or if its legit you shouldn't use phoenix miner @trog100 @phill   just giving you a heads up.






						NiceHash - Leading Cryptocurrency Platform for Mining and Trading
					






					www.nicehash.com


----------



## trog100 (Mar 14, 2021)

lynx.. back when the UK was on a gold standard.. the pound could be considered a "token" it used to say on a UK bank note "i promise to pay the bearer the sum of one pound".. this would have been in gold silver or i suppose copper coins..

the idea was pretty simple.. the amount of notes in circulation was limited by the amount of gold stashed in the bank of england or elsewhere.. the amount of notes in circulation was governed by the amount of gold the country owned.. you could not just print as many notes as you wanted to.. when the UK went off the gold standard this limitation was removed..

its like banks with the fractional reserve lending system.. they are allowed to lend 9 x what they have on deposit.... all in all its one huge ponzi scheme.. unbelievable really..

--------

for sepheronx.. the problem isnt the core temps.. its the memory temps.. eth is memory sensitive.. i run my two 3080 cards at + 1000..

each can vary.. i have one palit card and one gigabyte card.. the palit card shows a nice 94C on the memory the gigabyte card shows a not so nice 110C.. its running too hot or on the verge of too hot..

the thing that affect memory temps most is the power level setting.. my palit is at 71%.. my gigabyte at 60%.. one i have the fans at 45% the other needs 80% to stay even at 110 C.. i cant have too much fan noise on my  daily use machines..

i intend to take the gigabyte card apart  and fit some thermal pads between the memory chips and the back plate.. this way a fan blowing on the back plate should cool the memory chips..

when the gigabyte card goes over 110 C it throttles down.. it does this by lowering the power setting or wattage used.. this also lowers the hash rate.. gigabyte cards seem to be the troublesome ones..

my hash rate on both cards is around 93 m/hs.. one does this easily the other i have to be very careful with.. i leave a bit in reserve as the norm..

trog


----------



## dgianstefani (Mar 14, 2021)

The 3080s and 3090s I operate in rigs run at 75% power target for 0% mining performance loss. I use GELID GP Ultimate 15w/MK pads both sides and Cryonaut Extreme on all cards I buy new from factory.

Memory doesn't go higher than 85c with a 800mhz + offset.

I also use flow through cooling, so 120mm Arctic P12 Silent on each side of rig per card. 

Rigs are very quiet, quieter than my desktop, and are used instead of underfloor heating in certain rooms, moved to garage in summer.


----------



## Totally (Mar 14, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> in order for a bitcoin transaction to be mined, there has to be miners. when all 21 million coins are mined (already 18 million mined) so 3 million left, once those 3 million are gone, then how are transactions to be completed? I will tell you how, they are going to make up tokens, who is going to make these up? random people that's who. it's no different than fiat once the 3 million left are mined. because the tokens are created out of thin air basically with no oversight.
> 
> 
> I know you mentioned before about using phoenix miner, just read this on nicehash website:  not sure if its a marketing ploy or if its legit you shouldn't use phoenix miner @trog100 @phill   just giving you a heads up.
> ...



Pretty sure, once it is about to hit 21mil it's going to crash to 0, since when it hits 21m it's going to be technically a dead currency.


----------



## dgianstefani (Mar 14, 2021)

Hahaha, we'll see. Doubt it very much.


Totally said:


> Pretty sure, once it is about to hit 21mil it's going to crash to 0, since when it hits 21m it's going to be technically a dead currency.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 14, 2021)

one thing i have found out for sure is these cards auto throttle at 110 C on the memory.. they simply drop the power used to maintain 110 C... pretty much like an intel cpu does at 100 C..

i am gonna assume the memory chips are okay at 110 C.. in essence these cards are made to be idiot proof..

i am definitely going to fit pads between the back plate and memory chips on my gigabyte card.. my palit card is fine at 94 C.. this is with an ambient temp of around 20 C and case side off..

i have tried sticking a stock intel cpu cooler on the back of the gigabyte card it dosnt do much but then again it wont if the back plate isnt touching the memory chips.. some pads should sort things out..

trog


----------



## Totally (Mar 14, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Hahaha, we'll see. Doubt it very much.



Remember beanie babies? Honestly you don't see the parallels?


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 14, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Hahaha, we'll see. Doubt it very much.



so your ok with transactions being printed out of thin air once the 21 million have been reached? or simply creating a new mining blockchain that will act as token for your old BTC? how is that any different than fiat printing, lol.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 14, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> so your ok with transactions being printed out of thin air once the 21 million have been reached? or simply creating a new mining blockchain that will act as token for your old BTC? how is that any different than fiat printing, lol.



i dont think it will work out this way.. its a fair way away from all bitcoin being mined so its all in the future.. the difficulty will keep going up and production of bitcoin slows down..

i simply see bitcoin as store of value independent of any one governments control.. a way to move money anywhere in the world without any government intervention..

i was just watching a bitboy interview with michael saylar.. he seems convinced that bitcoin is the future of money worldwide.. he also seem to think it will just keep going up in value.. he wont give time estimates but he is quite clearly thinking in millions per bitcoin.. he seems a clever chap and he seems to make sense..

fiat will die and eventually will need replacing with something else.. he seems to think that something else could well be bitcoin.. he is thinking years ahead but in truth i dont know..

when bitcoin goes high enough we will be talking in fractions of a bitcoin not whole ones.. saylar sees it as a "bank in the sky" that anybody can use with no third party interventions.. in short the monetary system of the future.. it does seem to fit in with the digital age..

trog


----------



## dgianstefani (Mar 14, 2021)

Satoshis are the currency - BTC is just the beginning.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Mar 14, 2021)

Totally said:


> Remember beanie babies? Honestly you don't see the parallels?


And bitcoin is almost as worthless.


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 15, 2021)

Metroid said:


> This crypto bubble market will crash so hard, in 2018 it crashed 95%, this time will be 99%.


And then it will bounce back twice that.  Not that it ever crashed 95%, but hey, numbers...



mouacyk said:


> Isn't it quite late now?  BTC is overly and grossly inflated with unbacked Tethers.  It's probably not as insolvent as Tether is feared to be, but it could be near 72% (since increase from ~$13K)? According to that graph, Tether was being pumped into BTC even before the 13K mark prior to the November 2020 resurgence.  Heck, you could probably say that over $3K, BTC is inflated and backed by nothing, going back to BTC's low in 2018.


No, not really too late.  I don't know who issues tether but most have been avoiding them since this news.  I doubt they have the impact people claim they do today, as most legit exchanges shun them.



Totally said:


> Pretty sure, once it is about to hit 21mil it's going to crash to 0, since when it hits 21m it's going to be technically a dead currency.


Nothing is a "dead currency" that is traded / used.  Bitcoin is traded and used.

Mining is not it's lifeblood anymore.



lexluthermiester said:


> And bitcoin is almost as worthless.


It's a very useful idea, but it's struggling with it's own growth and has become a negative thing as a result of it in environmental impact, gaming impact, etc.

One could hope this will lessen with time and we could view it for it's intended good.  Honestly, it's hard to do that right now with the GPU shortage, I totally get that.  Sour grapes are both justified and called for.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Mar 15, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> and has become a negative thing as a result of it in environmental impact, gaming impact, etc.


I'm glad I'm not the only person seeing this. It needs to be put to a stop.


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 15, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I'm glad I'm not the only person seeing this. It needs to be put to a stop.


I don't want to see it killed entirely, but I am of the opinion it's grown far beyond what is healthy and severe regulation and enforcement to bring the tech back down to sensible consumption levels is needed.  Hopefully Biden's admin will do something in that regard, but not sure.  We'll see.


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 15, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Satoshis are the currency - BTC is just the beginning.




where can I get these satoshi's now? or I can't? who makes them? when? will it be open source? what if multiple people make multiple satoshi's? who gets to decide who's is more legit? sounds a lot like fiat endless printing to me.  but keep fooling yourself all you want.

and its not beginning, yellen and IMF gonna tax living crap out of it, so all your gains will be null and void moment you try to buy from a legit business in future. wait and see.


----------



## xkm1948 (Mar 15, 2021)

Linus:
shits on Nvidia's 3060 decision to cripple Eth mining









Also Linus:
Nicehash sponsored this episode












Also MAJOR shilling for NHQM. First they accuse Phoenix Miner of planting backdoors and shut it out, now they want to advertise ONLY their Excavator. I smell BS


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 15, 2021)

xkm1948 said:


> Linus:
> shits on Nvidia's 3060 decision to cripple Eth mining
> 
> 
> ...




greed and envy rule the hearts of all men, nothing new here


----------



## Totally (Mar 15, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Mining is not it's lifeblood anymore.



It has been replaced with greed and hype, once the mania dies down well know what is going to happen. Mining may not be the lifeblood but it's the hope keeping the greed alive.


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 15, 2021)

Totally said:


> It has been replaced with greed and hype, once the mania dies down well know what is going to happen. Mining may not be the lifeblood but it's the hope keeping the greed alive.



its also the fear of fiat's failure keeping it alive. which is foolish of them, cause I assure you if fiat fails so does crypto. they will tax living crap out of it before they allow fiat to fail.  

I imagine part of it is also corruption keeping it alive, rich people thinking they can wash their bitcoin with anon currencies like monero, then back out again from a clean btc wallets.  sadly this is probably true. i'll never understand why so many people struggle to simply enjoy the small things in life, but hey that's hyper-capitalism state we live in baby!


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 15, 2021)

Totally said:


> It has been replaced with greed and hype, once the mania dies down well know what is going to happen.


It will fall a bit again only to rise even higher at the next block halving?

That's what I see happening if no one steps in.

You all thought I was mad, but I basically told you this was going to happen what, 2 years ago?  And it did.  I assure you without action from the government this will happen again.


----------



## xkm1948 (Mar 15, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> greed and envy rule the hearts of all men, nothing new here



greed drives evolution. even in bacteria the competing bacterial cells will go out of their cilia to make potent toxin to kill as many its relatives as possible, in the name of making sure its own genetic materia have access to all the space and nutrients. That is way before those bacteria run into resources ceiling. Basically the moment they senses another bacteria cells nearby they switch on killing mode. We human are just a few more steps down the evolutionary tree. I mean we behave a bit better than bacteria cells but still, greed at the very foundation of genetic makeup.


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 15, 2021)

xkm1948 said:


> greed drives evolution. even in bacteria the competing bacterial cells will go out of their cilia to make potent toxin to kill as many its relatives as possible, in the name of making sure its own genetic materia have access to all the space and nutrients. That is way before those bacteria run into resources ceiling. Basically the moment they senses another bacteria cells nearby they switch on killing mode. We human are just a few more steps down the evolutionary tree. I mean we behave a bit better than bacteria cells but still, greed at the very foundation of genetic makeup.




incorrect. the most successful species are the ones that create a symbiosis with the environment around them.

longevity is key.


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 15, 2021)

xkm1948 said:


> We human are just a few more steps down the evolutionary tree. I mean we behave a bit better than bacteria cells but still, greed at the very foundation of genetic makeup.


You act like that excuses it though.  It doesn't.



lynx29 said:


> incorrect. the most successful species are the ones that create a symbiosis with the environment around them.


Considering humans are the most succesful, not sure I'd argue this way, unless you want to call sheep/cattle successful (which they are by sheer numbers, mostly due to humans finding them tasty).


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 15, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> You act like that excuses it though.  It doesn't.



some people still live in the cave (Allegory of the Cave by Plato), it's not our fault if they never make the climb to see the Logos (Sunlight)



R-T-B said:


> You act like that excuses it though.  It doesn't.
> 
> 
> Considering humans are the most succesful, not sure I'd argue this way, unless you want to call sheep/cattle successful (which they are by sheer numbers, mostly due to humans finding them tasty).



it depends what you consider successful. you consider destroying the entire earth and maybe even possible all future species successful? we have very interesting and different definitions of symbiosis with environment, success, and longevity.


----------



## xkm1948 (Mar 15, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> incorrect. the most successful species are the ones that create a symbiosis with the environment around them.
> 
> longevity is key.




long lasting symbiosis is extremely rare. So far there is one good example: mitochondria and the first proto-eukaryote cell that took it in. Given chance most organism would get everything while doing nothing in return



R-T-B said:


> You act like that excuses it though.  It doesn't.
> 
> 
> Considering humans are the most succesful, not sure I'd argue this way, unless you want to call sheep/cattle successful (which they are by sheer numbers, mostly due to humans finding them tasty).


Not excuse. Humans should be better, we are getting there as a species


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 15, 2021)

xkm1948 said:


> long lasting symbiosis is extremely rare. So far there is one good example: mitochondria and the first proto-eukaryote cell that took it in. Given chance most organism would get everything while doing nothing in return
> 
> 
> Not excuse. Humans should be better, we are getting there as a species




birds. nitrogen makers and survived without too much issues for what... 200 million years? when i say symbiosis i mean one species helping another long term survival of both. humans do not do this. birds do with plants/trees.  there are some other duo's like this in the ocean as well, I forget what they are right now though.  our species probably won't last, just not sustainable, even the sustainable options we come up with are no sustainable due to our greed


----------



## xkm1948 (Mar 15, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> birds. nitrogen makers and survived without too much issues for what... 200 million years? when i say symbiosis i mean one species helping another long term survival of both. humans do not do this. birds do with plants/trees.  there are some other duo's like this in the ocean as well, I forget what they are right now though.  our species probably won't last, just not sustainable, even the sustainable options we come up with are no sustainable due to our greed



it is difficult to stay positive. but as individuals we have to try.


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 15, 2021)

I think many of you are thinking way too much over this.


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 15, 2021)

xkm1948 said:


> So far there is one good example: mitochondria and the first proto-eukaryote cell that took it in.


Humans and everything they've domesticated.  It's gene pool wise, benefited one more than the other, but both have their numbers and genetic stock swell.

Unless you are applying an absolutely geologic time scale.


sepheronx said:


> I think many of you are thinking way too much over this.


I think many people don't think about our impacts enough, but it is indeed straying more into philosophy than price checking.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Mar 15, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> You act like that excuses it though.  It doesn't.
> 
> 
> Considering humans are the most succesful, not sure I'd argue this way, unless you want to call sheep/cattle successful (which they are by sheer numbers, mostly due to humans finding them tasty).



Hm, what makes ya think humans are the most successful in biological terms?

If you subscribe to evolution (and I don't) then homo sapiens have been around ~200,000 years.  Thats 1/22000th of the age of the Earth and 1/1350th the age of the oldest known (still living) complex organism - a cephalopod @270,000,000 years.

If the time that cephalopod has been around as a species were put in terms of a avg 75 year human lifespan, then humans have been around about 3 weeks.


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 15, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Hm, what makes ya think humans are the most successful in biological terms?


Impact on the planet (and hell, other bodies), primarily.  Numbers and biomass.  A few metrics.  I wasn't even factoring in age of the species because that's rather arbitrary in my view.  I mean most significant here and now, not 200 million years ago.


RandallFlagg said:


> and I don't


Yeah, then you probably don't want to discuss science with us, no offense meant.

We really are in the wrong place anyhow. This is a bitcoin price topic.


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 15, 2021)

We probably should change back to topic now. Mods gonna be mad as crap when they stumble on this thread.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 15, 2021)

bitcoin just a took a hit last night.. its down to around 56K.. back where it was a couple of days ago.. he he

it think these dips are just whale manipulations.. they are taking advantage peoples tendency to panic sell and trying to profit by it..

buy the dips and hodle is the sensible way..

my two recently acquired 3080 cards are busy earning around $20 dollars a day and will soon pay for themselves..

while doing this they are also serving as normal daily use machines..

trog


----------



## dgianstefani (Mar 15, 2021)

My mining rigs are quieter than the office PCs some of my mates use, and much faster, so I've got them setup, paying for the electricity, in exchange they get a solid computer to work and game on lmao.


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 15, 2021)

trog100 said:


> bitcoin just a took a hit last night.. its down to around 56K.. back where it was a couple of days ago.. he he
> 
> it think these dips are just whale manipulations.. they are taking advantage peoples tendency to panic sell and trying to profit by it..
> 
> ...


I couldn't even get 1 3080. I got 3 3070's making me roughly $22CAD a day.  A little over 1 month a GPU is paid off.  Waiting for a 6800xt now.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 15, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> I couldn't even get 1 3080. I got 3 3070's making me roughly $22CAD a day.  A little over 1 month a GPU is paid off.  Waiting for a 6800xt now.



i paid £1045 for one of mine about 6 weeks back before the ebay price got too high.. the other one i bought as a prebuilt gaming PC for roughly the same as the ebay price for a 3080 card on its own.. i just got in right with that one they went up by £600 while i was waiting for mine to arrive..

they are available just not at the price most people are prepared to pay.. but even at todays ebay prices they would pay for themselves well within 6 months..

they are worth what they are worth..

trog

ps.. the current UK ebay price for a 3080 is around £1750 quid.. are they worth that.. to some people they must be.. else the ebay price would not be what it is..


----------



## Metroid (Mar 15, 2021)

trog100 said:


> bitcoin just a took a hit last night.. its down to around 56K.. back where it was a couple of days ago.. he he
> 
> it think these dips are just whale manipulations.. they are taking advantage peoples tendency to panic sell and trying to profit by it..
> 
> buy the dips and hodle is the sensible way..


I wonder what you will say when the bear market comes and btc crashes 90% just like 2018. You will say that was panic sell too or manipulation, that I wonder hehe, this market will crash 95~99% just like 2011, 2014 and 2018.


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 15, 2021)

Metroid said:


> I wonder what you will say when the bear market comes and btc crashes 90% just like 2018. You will say that was panic sell too or manipulation, that I wonder hehe, this market will crash 95~99% just like 2011, 2014 and 2018.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 15, 2021)

Metroid said:


> I wonder what you will say when the bear market comes and btc crashes 90% just like 2018. You will say that was panic sell too or manipulation, that I wonder hehe, this market will crash 95~99% just like 2011, 2014 and 2018.



it will also go back up many times over again just like it did in 2011 2014 2018.. what i do wish is that when bitcoin went down to 4k a couple of years back i had taken the spare cash i had sat in the bank doing f-ck all and bought a couple of bitcoin with it.. that couple of bitcoin would now be worth 120K...

let me ask you a question... what are you gonna say when bitcoin hits 200K before the end of this year.. ??

the main thing i have to say is.. the last time it crashed i didnt sell i simply held on to what i had and pretty much forgot about it.. my only mistake was not buying more when it was cheap..

trog

ps.. i have one advantage.. i dont need the bitcoin money i can afford to just sit on it an watch.. he he


----------



## hat (Mar 15, 2021)

trog100 said:


> ps.. i have one advantage.. i dont need the bitcoin money i can afford to just sit on it an watch.. he he


That's why I'm happy with mining. My investment has more than paid for itself already, everything else is just icing on the cake. The only downside is, as with all investments... if only I had the foresight to hold on to everything I made when I started, I could probably afford a brand new car. Nothing fancy, though.


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 15, 2021)

Metroid said:


> I wonder what you will say when the bear market comes and btc crashes 90% just like 2018. You will say that was panic sell too or manipulation, that I wonder hehe, this market will crash 95~99% just like 2011, 2014 and 2018.


As the graph posted shows, it has never in recent history crashed 90%.  Your tooting a horn that doesn't actually exist.



trog100 said:


> what are you gonna say when bitcoin hits 200K before the end of this year.. ??


The same thing everyone making claims like this says when wrong about their baseless prediction:  sheepish silence.

That goes for both sides making lofty claims, btw.


----------



## Metroid (Mar 15, 2021)

trog100 said:


> it will also go back up many times over again just like it did in 2011 2014 2018.. what i do wish is that when bitcoin went down to 4k a couple of years back i had taken the spare cash i had sat in the bank doing f-ck all and bought a couple of bitcoin with it.. that couple of bitcoin would now be worth 120K...
> 
> let me ask you a question... what are you gonna say when bitcoin hits 200K before the end of this year.. ??
> 
> ...



Like I always say, sell while is high, this price will not last much longer.



R-T-B said:


> As the graph posted shows, it has never in recent history crashed 90%.  Your tooting a horn that doesn't actually exist.
> 
> 
> The same thing everyone making claims like this says when wrong about their baseless prediction:  sheepish silence.
> ...


eth from 1424 usd to 80 usd in 2018 is how much then? ada from 1.20 usd to 0.01 in 2018 is how much then?


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 15, 2021)

trog100 said:


> it will also go back up many times over again just like it did in 2011 2014 2018.. what i do wish is that when bitcoin went down to 4k a couple of years back i had taken the spare cash i had sat in the bank doing f-ck all and bought a couple of bitcoin with it.. that couple of bitcoin would now be worth 120K...
> 
> let me ask you a question... what are you gonna say when bitcoin hits 200K before the end of this year.. ??
> 
> ...



you are still making a classic mistake of investing though, and that is how much money do you really need to be extra happy/comfortable in life? if you cashed out now could you reach that? how much would it have to rise for you to reach that, and how realistic is that on the timetable?  

if answer is yes what you have now if you cashed out 80% of it, left 20% in-case it does go to the moon, if that 80% would make you extra happy/comfortable in life right now, then cash out the 80% and enjoy life. you are not promised to be alive tomorrow. none of us are. speaking of which my left arm has been going numb lately. gg life lol


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 15, 2021)

Metroid said:


> ada from 1.20 usd to 0.01 in 2018 is how much then?


Where on earth are you getting these numbers?  I don't recall bitcoin touching sub $10.00 in 2018.

Recent history is relative aparently, for the other claim, which may well be valid, the 2018 crash was bad.  Point is it bounced back, did not truly "pop."



Metroid said:


> Like I always say, sell while is high, this price will not last much longer.


You were advising bitcoin pizza man, weren't you?


----------



## Metroid (Mar 15, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Where on earth are you getting these numbers?  I don't recall bitcoin touching sub $10.00 in 2018.
> 
> Recent history is relative aparently, for the other claim, which may well be valid, the 2018 crash was bad.  Point is it bounced back, did not truly "pop."
> 
> ...


Bitcoin? talking about ada, bitcoin crashed from 20k to 3k, how much is than then?


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 15, 2021)

Metroid said:


> talking about ada


That would explain a lot.  Why on earth are you talking about ada in the bitcoin price thread?



Metroid said:


> Bitcoin? talking about ada, bitcoin crashed from 20k to 3k, how much is than then?


You can math.  It's an 85% crash.


----------



## Metroid (Mar 15, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> That would explain a lot.  Why on earth are you talking about ada in the bitcoin price thread?
> 
> 
> You can math.  It's an 85% crash.


I gave examples how that 95~99% will fit in, bitcoin 85% altcoins 95~99% crash.


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 15, 2021)

Metroid said:


> I gave examples how that 95~99% will fit in.


Of an irrelevant coin no one holds?

Yeah.


----------



## Metroid (Mar 15, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Of an irrelevant coin no one holds?
> 
> Yeah.


This time will be no different, enjoy your bullrun while it lasts ehhe and do not sell, hold hold and hold ehhe


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 15, 2021)

Metroid said:


> This time will be no different, enjoy your bullrun while it lasts ehhe and do not sell, hold hold and hold ehhe


I'm not holding anything buddy.


----------



## hat (Mar 15, 2021)

It would be nice to have some altcoins, unfortunately coinbase doesn't support a lot. It looks like Monero in particular is tough to use, but there's some bad juju surrounding that one anyway. 

Not sure what's going on with Ethereum. I keep hearing there's supposed to be some fork or something, but it looks like Ethereum Classic already exists?


----------



## Metroid (Mar 15, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I'm not holding anything buddy.


I did not say explicit to you, I said to all you trolls in general, do not sell ehhe, hold hold and hold eheh


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 15, 2021)

hat said:


> but it looks like Ethereum Classic already exists?


You can have more than one fork.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 16, 2021)

i bought a 1000 ada back 2018.. he he..

but bitcoin is a long term thing.. the longer you hold it the less risk there is of ever being at a loss.. anyone that has held it over four years cant be at a loss.. hold it for longer and the risk gets less..

in a six month time frame you can get wrecked.. in a six year time frame you can only win..

i have been holding bitcoin for four years now.. my main mistake is i have not been buying more at the low crash points.. i should have..

of course this does leave a problem of when to cash out.. it also helps if you dont need the money so that you dont need to cash out..

the losers are.. people who think too short term and people who need the money... i am nether of these..

i m lucky.. i have enough money to cater for my every day wants.. i dont long for anything i cant afford to buy.. i really do believe that over the long term bitcoin will keep going up.. i have no idea where it will end up but long term the only way is up..

my $200000 by the end of the year figure was just something i aimed at metroid to offset his constant crash talk.. you should not take it seriously mr frog..

bitcoin does have a history of short term crashes but long tern it simply keeps going up.. most people in this thread are thinking short term i am thinking long term..

one thing i learned from the 2018 crash was.. dont worry about what the price is now just think where it will be in the future..

trog

ps.. one other mistake i made was i sold 25 of my 50 litecoin and bought 25 neo.. neo seem one coin that has definitely tanked..


----------



## lexluthermiester (Mar 16, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I don't want to see it killed entirely


Allow me to share more detail about my sentiments, I want to see GPU base mining die a fiery death. The rest of cryptocoin I couldn't care less about. GPU based crypto is what is causing severe problems to whole sections of the PC ecosystem. It needs to be destroyed entirely.


----------



## R0H1T (Mar 16, 2021)

trog100 said:


> but bitcoin is a long term thing


Depends on when you've bought it & how long you can hold it. Buying at $60k when you have a mortgage to pay off one year down the road isn't probably the smartest idea for instance.


----------



## hat (Mar 16, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Allow me to share more detail about my sentiments, I want to see GPU base mining die a fiery death. The rest of cryptocoin I couldn't care less about. GPU based crypto is what is causing severe problems to whole sections of the PC ecosystem. It needs to be destroyed entirely.


Aren't you forgetting something?


----------



## Mescalamba (Mar 16, 2021)

History usually isnt good in showing future profits, or how is that "non financial advice" saying.

But in general even if you bought at last ATH, you would have x3 of that if you held till recent ATH. So, yea even if holding seems as stupid (kinda is) it works. Also buying bit-by-bit strategy works rather well too (basically buying for some reasonably money every month, you can try to time it for month low, or just buy whenever). In long term it should be rather profitable (but nobody and nothing will guarantee that it will).

Yea, buying now at 60k aint best, but.. good chance it will be 100k too one day. While mere 67% gain aint that groundbreaking it still surpasses basically any other kind of investing. And beats inflation of I think all civilized countries.



hat said:


> Aren't you forgetting something?



He probably thinks that those GPUs are stolen. And that PC ecosystem doesnt need money to be profitable. And that those miners will never sell their gear for peanuts.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Mar 16, 2021)

hat said:


> Aren't you forgetting something?


What am I forgetting?



Mescalamba said:


> He probably thinks that those GPUs are stolen. And that PC ecosystem doesnt need money to be profitable. And that those miners will never sell their gear for peanuts.


That statement shows clearly that you fail to understand the bigger picture.


----------



## hat (Mar 16, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> What am I forgetting?


Miners are buying up video cards, yes. It contributes, in part, to the problem (especially when you have vendors selling product out the back door, before it ever hits store shelves). However, a bigger part of the problem lies with the effects of the pandemic we're (still) living in. The whole world has been getting pounded for over a year now. Thanks to the pandemic, we have reduced manufacturing capacity, resulting in supply shortages in a time where demand is higher than ever, due in large part to various lockdowns observed all over the globe.

Remember that even car manufacturers are having a hard time getting circuity bits for their cars. Miners aren't buying whatever ICs that are going into cars.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Mar 16, 2021)

hat said:


> However, a bigger part of the problem lies with the effects of the pandemic we're (still) living in.


Incorrect. Last year, before the cryptocoin resurgence, business was good and steady. Right now, no one is buying or even upgrading PC's because no one can get GPU's to put in them. No PC sales also has an effect on the software market. The problems being caused by the GPU based cryptocoin mining is having a detrimental effect on a wide range of the technology industry, not just gamers.



hat said:


> Remember that even car manufacturers are having a hard time getting circuity bits for their cars.


Then perhaps car makers should worry less about computers in cars and go back to the basics. Cars are modes of transportation, not media-center appliances that need constant internet connectivity.


----------



## hat (Mar 16, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Incorrect. Last year, before the cryptocoin resurgence, business was good and steady. Right now, no one is buying or even upgrading PC's because no one can get GPU's to put in them. No PC sales also has an effect on the software market. The problems being caused by the GPU based cryptocoin mining is having a detrimental effect on a wide range of the technology industry, not just gamers.



RTX3k series availability has pretty much been in the toilet from day 1, and even that has been better than the competing RX6k series offerings from AMD. A lot of people skipped Turing because the price/performance ratio was terrible, but even those are sold out now. Let's also not forget the AMD Ryzen 5k series, which has been very difficult to find, and CPUs have almost nothing to do with mining (besides just having one of any old CPU to allow the system to function).

But, for the sake of this argument, let's assume mining is 100% responsible for the video card shortages. How do you explain, then, the PS5 and the new Xbox Series X being sold out everywhere, considering nobody is using those for mining? 



lexluthermiester said:


> Then perhaps car makers should worry less about computers in cars and go back to the basics. Cars are modes of transportation, not media-center appliances that need constant internet connectivity.


 While I mostly agree with this, even my old 02 Taurus had a computer control system, and there was no media center (besides the CD player/radio) or internet connection to speak of. My 04 Civic is the same way, despite being even less fancy. Although, I'm not a fan of all the new "features" they keep adding on over the years, which probably requires "more computer stuff" to function. Still, however agreeable it may be, your comment still conveniently dodges the point of my comment: if mining is to blame for GPU shortages, why are even car manufacturers having trouble? They don't run on standard GPUs.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Mar 16, 2021)

You have to buy the dips. Like today.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Mar 16, 2021)

hat said:


> RTX3k series availability has pretty much been in the toilet from day 1


That is incorrect. During the first few months of release I had a number of them in my shop for sale. After the turn of the year that changed. Haven't been able to get them at all since January. I've only been able to stock the Radeons, but still just a few. I am FAR from alone in these troubles.


hat said:


> But, for the sake of this argument, let's assume mining is 100% responsible for the video card shortages.


Let's not. While is a major contributor, it's not the exclusive cause.


hat said:


> How do you explain, then, the PS5 and the new Xbox Series X being sold out everywhere, considering nobody is using those for mining?


That question can not be answered as it's based on an assumption that has no merit.


----------



## P4-630 (Mar 16, 2021)

India to propose cryptocurrency ban, penalising miners, traders - source
					

India will propose a law banning cryptocurrencies, fining anyone trading in the country or even holding such digital assets, a senior government official told Reuters in a potential blow to millions of investors piling into the red-hot asset class.




					www.reuters.com


----------



## hat (Mar 16, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> That is incorrect. During the first few months of release I had a number of them in my shop for sale. After the turn of the year that changed. Haven't been able to get them at all since January. I've only been able to stock the Radeons, but still just a few. I am FAR from alone in these troubles.



Have you forgotten the articles with Mr. Huang stating something like "supply is just fine, demand is too high"? This was before the mining boom we're currently in. And here's an article about bad availability from camp AMD, also before the mining boom. Note, not one instance of the word "mining" can be found on any of the 5 pages.









						Surprising Absolutely No One, AMD RX 6800 Series Pretty Much Out of Stock, And Scalping Becomes a Pervasive Industry Problem
					

The title says it all, really. We've only just been able to add AMD's latest RX 6800 and 6800 XT graphics cards to our shopping carts in multiple etailers, but the cat is already out of the bag and into scalpers' pockets. This has been a recurring event for all gaming-related tech, from DIY PC...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




Here's an even earlier article from the Nvidia side of things, only one mention of the word mining, and it's about one of the previous mining booms. It also mentions the supply/demand issue I mentioned above:









						NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080/3090 Founders Edition Sales Limited to BestBuy in the US
					

The supply of NVIDIA's newly announced GeForce RTX Ampere lineup has been quite controversial since the beginning. Demand for the new GeForce RTX 3080 and 3090 GPUs has been rather high and NVIDIA experienced big "demand issues" as the CEO Jensen Huang says. The company didn't expect such high...




					www.techpowerup.com
				






lexluthermiester said:


> Let's not. While is a major contributor, it's not the exclusive cause.



Which is my point, although I'm not sure how major of a contributor it is when faced with the effects of the pandemic.



lexluthermiester said:


> That question can not be answered as it's based on an assumption that has no merit.



Nah, that assumption has merit. Otherwise we would have heard about it. We would have seen a picture of some mining farm somewhere filled with PS5s and Xboxes and 100 casefans in a window. And if and when the day comes that it does happen, well, I won't be surprised, because I was surprised once by people buying laptops for mining, so a stack of consoles won't surprise me... but so far we haven't seen nor heard of it.

The shortages of PS5s and Xboxes are therefore explained by supply not meeting demand, and considering you can't mine on a console, that leaves only the pandemic contributing to unusually high demand and unusually low supply.



P4-630 said:


> India to propose cryptocurrency ban, penalising miners, traders - source
> 
> 
> India will propose a law banning cryptocurrencies, fining anyone trading in the country or even holding such digital assets, a senior government official told Reuters in a potential blow to millions of investors piling into the red-hot asset class.
> ...


Your own article mentions that China bans mining and trading, but not possession. So definitely nobody is mining in China. 

Interestingly, not sure why possession of cryptocurrency is legal when it's illegal to move it. What good is currency if it's illegal to trade?


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## P4-630 (Mar 16, 2021)

hat said:


> Your own article mentions that China bans mining and trading, but not possession. So definitely nobody is mining in China.



I was reading it on a Dutch site, they didn't mention China and I posted their source which was this from reuters.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 16, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> India to propose cryptocurrency ban, penalising miners, traders - source
> 
> 
> India will propose a law banning cryptocurrencies, fining anyone trading in the country or even holding such digital assets, a senior government official told Reuters in a potential blow to millions of investors piling into the red-hot asset class.
> ...


YES! This! All over the world!


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## Mescalamba (Mar 16, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> YES! This! All over the world!


Yea, keep all money for less than 1% of the world. That will surely make world better place. Indian government is probably one of worst of civilized world.

You are missing big picture.

Fact that poor PC players cant upgrade their PCs (selfish much?) is meaningless and non-important. Beside that its temporary situation, much like last time. Ofc impatient kids like you cant wait couple months and their greedy paws must have new HW or world will end. So they could waste their time gaming and fuel stupid greedy companies like Activision for example (to each its own, eh..).

Like definition of first world problems..


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## basco (Mar 16, 2021)

they stop it to make their own crypto whithout protection so they can see what+where ya paid for controlling even more but thats only relevant for old peeps like me which only pay in cash if i have some


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## trog100 (Mar 16, 2021)

if bitcoin truly becomes a universally accepted store of value countries are gonna gave to mine it.. its money.. those that dont will be left behind..

trog


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## Outback Bronze (Mar 16, 2021)

trog100 said:


> those that dont will be left behind..



Just for you : )


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## sepheronx (Mar 16, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> India to propose cryptocurrency ban, penalising miners, traders - source
> 
> 
> India will propose a law banning cryptocurrencies, fining anyone trading in the country or even holding such digital assets, a senior government official told Reuters in a potential blow to millions of investors piling into the red-hot asset class.
> ...



I am gonna be a thorn in the rear for this but:

Having experienced India's law system first hand, I can safely give my opinion on this matter.

India has been pushing an idea of a Digital Rupee and this is simply to stifle out competition.  But with what happened not so long ago (couple years ago), India was banning use of older notes due to the counterfeit scheme going on where money was being delivered from Pakistan into India, to fund illegal activities and much of this money was being used for buying up things like Gold and other precious assets.  Anyway, while this did stifle the use of it, it didn't stamp it out.

Now lets add in the fact that India will use their digital currency, there will be a tough measure in trying to actually stop miners and or the use of bitcoin.  Actually, on contrary, it may increase the activity of it, much like what is seen in China.  Bitcoin itself is still used in hiding transactions and how many nations are able to circumvent sanctions and other trade issues by using crypto.  Simply banning it is one thing, but actually enforcing any law on it is another.  See Canada's torrenting laws and the lack of actually doing anything to counter it.  And Canada has a much more stable political and justice system than India.

Also add in that a lot of rich and powerful people in India has dealings in crypto, it may just not pass through.  Lastly, the constitutional court seems to always want to stifle whatever Modi does or pushes, so I imagine there will be lawsuits.

It sounds good when it is all written down.  But just wait till they have to enact such laws.  They are still fighting with the corrupt middle men in Punjab regarding the so called Farmer protests (Khalistani's way of trying to cause harm).

What I forsee is that Bitcoins will be increased in use in India and there will be a way to trade between it and digital Rupee and then to cash if the user so wishes to.  And or it will force Bitcoin back into the hands of the illegal market anyway and flourish there.

Remember - Drugs like Marijuana is illegal in India.  Yet it grows on the side of the road everywhere in Punjab for instance.


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## Mescalamba (Mar 16, 2021)

trog100 said:


> if bitcoin truly becomes a universally accepted store of value countries are gonna gave to mine it.. its money.. those that dont will be left behind..
> 
> trog


Rather sooner than later there wont be any BTC left to mine. Even today basically everyone is mining something else than BTC.

As for BTC going to zero. Unlikely, there would be a lot of ppl keeping faith in it even at super low prices, so zero simply wont happen. When/if BTC does another drop to 15-20% price, there will be a lot of ppl buying like mad.

BTC has few future scenarios. One is that it will keep its value as "digital gold" with infinite price ceiling. Other that it will be replaced by some other currency that will be more viable.

I kinda expect that BTC will be used as sorta digital gold standard and whatever currency will be used as actually currency will simply derive its price from BTC. Not much different to physical gold standard. Or current situation with crypto. 

While it would be nice to have one crypto for everything in the world I dont think it will happen. Most likely scenario is at first huge amount of different cryptos (bit like current situation, just those future ones will be companies/government owned/made). Which will be later reduced in numbers to much less. Probably each continent/economical union having own.

I wonder if current free crypto will survive. But given not even free internet does. Probably not.


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## Outback Bronze (Mar 17, 2021)

For anybody interested in how bad it is for the environment.

Governments are quick to demonise Bitcoin as an environmental menace (msn.com)


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 17, 2021)

Mescalamba said:


> You are missing big picture.


You desperately need a mirror when you say that. Really, you do!


Mescalamba said:


> Fact that poor PC players cant upgrade their PCs (selfish much?) is meaningless and non-important. Beside that its temporary situation, much like last time. Ofc impatient kids like you cant wait couple months and their greedy paws must have new HW or world will end. So they could waste their time gaming and fuel stupid greedy companies like Activision for example (to each its own, eh..).
> 
> Like definition of first world problems..


Oh go polish your Apple man.  It's not just the poor or middle class that can't afford to upgrade, it's even affecting the buying decisions of high end buyers who also do not want to pay outrageous prices IF they can find a card for sale... The world was fine before cryptocoin it'll be fine if it's gone...


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## trog100 (Mar 17, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> You desperately need a mirror when you say that. Really, you do!
> 
> Oh go polish your Apple man.  It's not just the poor or middle class that can't afford to upgrade, it's even affecting the buying decisions of high end buyers who also do not want to pay outrageous prices IF they can find a card for sale... The world was fine before cryptocoin it'll be fine if it's gone...



the "outrageous" prices are caused  by a supply shortage.. the demand at RRP prices by far exceeds the supply.. cards are readily available at ebay prices.. ebay prices are based on what people are prepared to pay.. 

in such a situation supply needs to increase to bring prices down..  the makers may not be able to do this or they may choose not to do this i dont know..

but simply blaming miners is a very short sighted view and its wrong..

trog


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 17, 2021)

trog100 said:


> the "outrageous" prices are caused by a supply shortage..


And why is THAT happening? Hmmm?


trog100 said:


> but simply blaming miners is a very short sighted view and its wrong..


Except that pretty much everyone knows that the miners are a big contributor to the problem..


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## mouacyk (Mar 17, 2021)

Yep, there is a price to speculation.  The more meaningless it is, the higher the cost to resources.  And ofc, people who speculate on such meaningless things don't give a shite.  They just like to profit and complain about the resource issue at the same time.


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## trog100 (Mar 17, 2021)

yes miners are part of the problem but they are not the cause of the problem.. too little (or no) supply is the cause of the problem..

i mine with my gpus i would love to buy more of them so that i could mine some more.. but current ebay prices are too high even for me.. a 3080 gpu UK ebay price is around £1750 quid..

having said that even at £1750 a card would pay for itself after about six months if used for mining..

trog


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## kapone32 (Mar 17, 2021)

I hope this doesn't instill any real animosity as any of you (most of you) can do it. I have a sweet Gaming PC and absolutely love Gaming. I have been Gaming since I was 7 and I am now 50 so that covers the entire Gambit from the arcade (Asteroids, Wizard or Wor, Gauntlet, Joust) all I am trying to establish is that I have a computer for Gaming and that is the focus of my use. I also had a card sitting around since I made an upgrade. Buying GPUs is absolutely insane in terms of pricing. I started mining with the one card and tuned the GPU to pull 140 Watts (Vega 64) with a hashrate of 37 MH/s. That is about $8 a day in mining. Ok so I am thinking $8 over 30 days would be a nice sum of $240. That is not bad at all vs the electricity cost but there are newer cards that are way more efficient. Canada Computers is having a sale on a MSI Gaming PC. It is $1179 (CAD) and comes with a 10400F, 512GB SSD, 16GB DDR4 and 5600XT. Why I am posting this in this thread is because I bought 2 of them. I sold my Water cooled Vega 64 for $800 and built a rig from spare parts that netted me another $2000 (X399). 






						Canada Computers | Best PC, Laptop, Gaming Gear, Printer, TV, Cables - Canada Computers & Electronics
					

The best deals on laptops, PC, game systems, components, small appliances, cables, and office supplies. Save more by shopping online or in-store!




					www.canadacomputers.com
				




So I have a MSI X570 Pro and I put the 2 cards on that board with a 3400G. I tuned the cards to pull a ridiculous 90 watts each (they have 2 8 Pins each?) and have a hash rate of about 75mh/s by then end of the year I will be happier than I am today (if the trend continues). As for the rest of the PCs. One is getting a 7950 and the other is getting a Vega 64 and going on sale for $500 and maybe $1000 respectively so it's smiles all around. 

4 of my friends and family (so far) have bought the deal. I can understand the melancholy that is out there but you just have to be smart, there are still ways to get in without getting hosed. The fact that you could (currently) make $6000 a year mining with 2 6800XTs (or maybe $3000 if you ran it while working) makes spending $1300 in the store or $1400-1500 on the street a sort of moot point if you can have a return on your investment. 

Supply seems to be getting better but without commercial flights to support supply we are relegated to waiting for containers to cross the Pacific. Lets hope that their are ships on the Ocean right now with several containers full of GPUs though.



mouacyk said:


> Yep, there is a price to speculation.  The more meaningless it is, the higher the cost to resources.  And ofc, people who speculate on such meaningless things don't give a shite.  They just like to profit and complain about the resource issue at the same time.


Actually my goal is to have 5 3KW windmills hooked up to a 10 card mining rig.


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## R0H1T (Mar 17, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> *Also add in that a lot of rich and powerful people in India has dealings in crypto, it may just not pass through*. Lastly, the constitutional court seems to always want to stifle whatever Modi does or pushes, so I imagine there will be lawsuits.


Well here's the thing ~ *everything's legal for the rich & powerful*, whether it be in India or really anywhere else! Which is to say that the govt can definitely make & enforce such laws, but selective punishment for plebs could well be the norm *if the law's passed of course* ~ which I doubt would be the case in the immediate future.


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## trog100 (Mar 17, 2021)

kapone32 said:


> I hope this doesn't instill any real animosity as any of you (most of you) can do it. I have a sweet Gaming PC and absolutely love Gaming. I have been Gaming since I was 7 and I am now 50 so that covers the entire Gambit from the arcade (Asteroids, Wizard or Wor, Gauntlet, Joust) all I am trying to establish is that I have a computer for Gaming and that is the focus of my use. I also had a card sitting around since I made an upgrade. Buying GPUs is absolutely insane in terms of pricing. I started mining with the one card and tuned the GPU to pull 140 Watts (Vega 64) with a hashrate of 37 MH/s. That is about $8 a day in mining. Ok so I am thinking $8 over 30 days would be a nice sum of $240. That is not bad at all vs the electricity cost but there are newer cards that are way more efficient. Canada Computers is having a sale on a MSI Gaming PC. It is $1179 (CAD) and comes with a 10400F, 512GB SSD, 16GB DDR4 and 5600XT. Why I am posting this in this thread is because I bought 2 of them. I sold my Water cooled Vega 64 for $800 and built a rig from spare parts that netted me another $2000 (X399).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
you are looking at things in a realistic way..

i have a couple of desktop 3080 machines and a mining rig built back in 2017.. the mining rig has 8 x 1070 cards in it... they are producing around 400 m/hs all together.. or about $14000 US dollars per year.. 

this may go up or it may go down i dont know.. but at over a 1000 dollars per month it would be hard not to do it.. 

trog


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## critofur (Mar 17, 2021)

One of the mornings I went to wait in line at my local computer store hoping to buy a 3070 but by the time it was my turn to pick a card, my only option was the $1800 EVGA FTW3 3090 Ultra - well, I couldn't go away empty handed so I bought that (gasp - $300 was already an expensive GPU IMO).  The thing is, it wasn't that long ago that I had bought a 3070 for $475 and I wasn't sure it was worth it even at that price.  

I keep telling myself: _It'd be stupid to keep this 3090 when I can sell it for $2,800 or more - _and, of all the cards in the 3000 series, the 3090 is the least efficient in terms of both cost per MH/s and electricity per MH/s - with summer coming, I'm hesitating to open this beast up and start mining with it. Talk about "first world problems" - I just can't decide and it's stressing me out 

Either way is a "win" though I guess - I do realize I'm lucky that I could get the card at the "retail" price.  My gaming PC has a 3080 in it which is more than enough already, and I bought a 3060 Ti for my son even though he said "I don't need a new GPU" because mining makes it "free" or better.


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## kapone32 (Mar 17, 2021)

trog100 said:


> you are looking at things in a realistic way..
> 
> i have a couple of desktop 3080 machines and a mining rig built back in 2017.. the mining rig has 8 x 1070 cards in it... they are producing around 400 m/hs all together.. or about $14000 US dollars per year..
> 
> ...


F me that is insane. I am sure your face is not wide enough to fit how wide your smile must be. I would not even have contemplated Mining if my 6800XT did not cost more than I paid for the PCs I mentioned.  It does something to you when you see your wallet growing and growing though.


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## trog100 (Mar 17, 2021)

kapone32 said:


> F me that is insane. I am sure your face is not wide enough to fit how wide your smile must be. I would not even have contemplated Mining if my 6800XT did not cost more than I paid for the PCs I mentioned.  It does something to you when you see your wallet growing and growing though.



got into crypto because i fancied building a mining machine back 2017.. it cost me about 4K to build.. back then i could have bought one whole bitcoin for 4k.. that one whole bitcoin would now be worth around 55K..

my crypto wallet grows quicker as crypto goes up in price more than it does from my mining.. but the mining is fun.. 

i watched bitcoin go up from 4K to 20K and then back down to 4K and then back up to 60K i have never sold anything... it gives me something to check on every day just like the weather.. he he

trog


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## Mescalamba (Mar 17, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> For anybody interested in how bad it is for the environment.
> 
> Governments are quick to demonise Bitcoin as an environmental menace (msn.com)



BTC is temporary thing. Once majority is mined it will be pretty much over, which is going to be around 2030.

Current/new crypto most likely wont go mining way. But who knows really..

Chip production in general has problems, current mining craze only made it worse. Beside that, apart mining, PC segment isnt particularly interesting for companies. For nVidia biggest interest is I think super computers, machine learning and similar stuff, where they can supply thousands of cards at once (and very very expensive ones).

As for environmental impact. Hah. World has much more pressing problems than crypto mining. Beside the fact that a lot of it isnt using classical sources of energy, but alternative due profits.

Is it stupid? Sure, but so is basically majority of things that mankind does. Including very existence of mankind.


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## ZenZimZaliben (Mar 17, 2021)

Mescalamba said:


> BTC is temporary thing. Once majority is mined it will be pretty much over, which is going to be around 2030.


BTC will be forever. Once majority is mined it will be the start of a new world currency around 2030...See I can make up stuff also.


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## Zach_01 (Mar 17, 2021)

People forgetting that mining is not what gives cryptos their value. Its the blockchain tech and what you can do with it along with the transaction volume. Otherwise most crypto assets (that are unminable) would have no value right now. But that is not what is happening...

I wonder... has anyone of the ney sayers think that once all BTCs mined and their number is finite that would actually give them way more value? Unlike fiat currency that govs keep printing?


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## Mescalamba (Mar 17, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> BTC will be forever. Once majority is mined it will be the start of a new world currency around 2030...See I can make up stuff also.



Its not made up. Around 2030 98% of BTC will be mined. Difficulty at that point will be crazy high to the point that profitability will be most likely only if your electricity is completely free and in same time you own gigantic farm. Unless there will be some serious computing power jump in ASICs or even PC technology (I wouldnt rule that out given M1 from Apple).

So around 2030 BTC can be considered as pretty much "mined". ETH by then should move to non-mining. There is question what will other mineable stuff do. Ppl love to mine, so I guess there will be still a lot of stuff to mine. Another question is what will AMD/nVidia do. Right now AMD does nothing and nVidia did some primitive attempt at moving miners to dedicated GPUs for that. Next generation might be a lot more difficult to crack, which in theory can increase number of GPUs available for regular gamer market.

BTC mining is temporary thing. BTC lifetime is unknown at this point.



Zach_01 said:


> People forgetting that mining is not what gives cryptos their value. Its the blockchain tech and what you can do with it along with the transaction volume. Otherwise most crypto assets (that are unminable) would have no value right now. But that is not what is happening...
> 
> I wonder... has anyone of the ney sayers think that once all BTCs mined and their number is finite that would actually give them way more value? Unlike fiat currency that govs keep printing?



Even meme coin DOGE is in long term better option than FIAT, cause even while DOGE has some built-in inflation after some time that inflation will be still lower than USD (or basically any main FIAT).

Crypto is pretty much opposite of FIAT. But so far that usable currency part isnt really working. Fortunately for crypto current world economical situation is looking rather bad for FIAT and good for everything else (including physical gold and such..). Will see what future brings. Probably something nasty.


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## ZenZimZaliben (Mar 18, 2021)

I just don't agree with your logic. There will still be transaction fee's. There are still 100M Satoshi in 1 BTC. Imagine a day when 1 Sat = 1 USD. Everything I have read says 2140 +-10 years. The only way it any crypto becomes a currency is once it plateaus and holds. But we have a long ways to go for that.


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## Zach_01 (Mar 18, 2021)

It’s tech. Blockchain. And like any all-new tech it will take many years to evolve and develop. It will eventually be adopted by major players like Visa, MasterCard and others. You can use it today with Revolut.
And I don’t mean just BTC but digital assets in general. Blockchain tech can be used in so many (legit) ways.


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## Vya Domus (Mar 18, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> People forgetting that mining is not what gives cryptos their value. Its the blockchain tech and what you can do with it along with the transaction volume. Otherwise most crypto assets (that are unminable) would have no value right now.


It's neither mining or the technology.

It's just the demand of a fixed supply asset that gives it value. It could have been anything else that matched that description. Practically nobody cares what you could do with bitcoin, they're in just to make a profit, that's it.


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## basco (Mar 18, 2021)

quote from this site:
However, it also suggests the amount of electricity consumed every year by always-on but inactive home devices in the US alone could power the entire Bitcoin network for a year.









						Bitcoin consumes 'more electricity than Argentina'
					

The rising value of Bitcoin leads to ever-higher energy consumption, researchers say.



					www.bbc.com


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## trog100 (Mar 18, 2021)

i have just been looking at UK ebay gpu prices.. currently a 3060 ti is fetching over £1000.. i also came across some pre-built mining machines.. one that caught my eye was a 8 x 3060 ti machine..  its priced at £11,700..

at current prices it would generate over a £1000 per month and take just under a year to pay for itself... a 480 m/hs machine..

all ebay gpu prices do seem linked to what they would make as mining cards..

forking out over £11000 grand in one go is a bit much for me so i probably wont buy it but i am pretty sure that in the future i am gonna look back and wish i had.. he he

trog

ps.. as for the cost of leccy.. i recon for a couple of grand i could put enough solar panels on the top of my shed to run the the mining machine for at least half of the time.. it would need a few batteries and an inverter in the shed but it could be done..


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## sepheronx (Mar 18, 2021)

I'm slowly building the rig. Doing things like buying GPUs as backorders so I pay what would be closest to MSRP.  Only issue is the wait game.

Getting a RX 6800 XT for gaming and helping a bit with mining in a seperate rig, but the mining rig, I'm hoping to find at least a 3080 or two 3060 ti's to work with the 3 3070's.

So far, no luck.  3080 is more or less mythical here.


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## trog100 (Mar 18, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> I'm slowly building the rig. Doing things like buying GPUs as backorders so I pay what would be closest to MSRP.  Only issue is the wait game.
> 
> Getting a RX 6800 XT for gaming and helping a bit with mining in a seperate rig, but the mining rig, I'm hoping to find at least a 3080 or two 3060 ti's to work with the 3 3070's.
> 
> So far, no luck.  3080 is more or less mythical here.



the pent up demand for "closer to MSRP" graphics card must be huge.. you may be waiting a long time maybe for ever..

as long as crypto keeps doing what its doing the gap between supply and demand is gonna get bigger..

i treat the ebay price as the true price.. it is based on what people are prepared to pay.. at least enough of them to swallow up the available product..

trog


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## freeagent (Mar 18, 2021)

One day GPU's will be obsolete for mining. Nothing lasts forever. It might look good now, but no one here can predict the future, no matter how in tune you might be.


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## Vya Domus (Mar 18, 2021)

freeagent said:


> One day GPU's will be obsolete for mining.


Ain't gonna happen, many crypto algorithms are now designed to require general purpose computation, this means they will never become obsolete because a specialized piece of hardware simply wont work. GPUs used for gaming will be a rare sight, I am not joking or exaggerating, I mean you'll have your crashes in prices here and there allowing some to make their way to gamers but by the looks of it PC gaming is done for.

The only thing that can stop this is that these networks grow so much that they're not sustainable with the available hardware in terms of computation or power. This is a real possibility but who knows how long it will take before such a scenario is reached.


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## moproblems99 (Mar 18, 2021)

Maybe now is a good time to sell my rigs with support for 9 gpus


----------



## Caring1 (Mar 18, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> Maybe now is a good time to sell my rigs with support for 9 gpus


You just reminded me to check eBay to see how high bids are on the GPU i'm selling.


----------



## Mescalamba (Mar 19, 2021)

I wouldnt buy GPU today. Sure, price of BTC might stay high, but since there is basically no way to tell what will be next ATH and when it will be reached and what will happen after..

Basically you might buy GPU today with idea that it will "pay for itself" within a year or half, but what will happen if BTC does its typical nosedive after ATH? How profitable will be mining at 50% of current price or 30%?

That paying for itself might be a a bit longer in that case.

Also, it pays for itself.. cool, but "pure profit" when?

I might be wrong, but investing big in mining now seems a bit risky. Price increase since 20th Feb was at max around 7%. BTC does sorta keep its price (in classical way which is swings up and down), but it doesnt really go up. If it wont go up in some rather close future, it might go down.. a lot.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 19, 2021)

Mescalamba said:


> I wouldnt buy GPU today. Sure, price of BTC might stay high, but since there is basically no way to tell what will be next ATH and when it will be reached and what will happen after..
> 
> Basically you might buy GPU today with idea that it will "pay for itself" within a year or half, but what will happen if BTC does its typical nosedive after ATH? How profitable will be mining at 50% of current price or 30%?
> 
> ...



i just bought a new msi trio 3060ti.. i paid £1099 for it.. its to go in alongside a gigabyte 3080 in one of my desktop machines the machine should produce 150 m/sh..

i had a 2080TI i was gonna sell but that has now gone in alongside a palit 3080 in my other desktop machine that one is at 150 m/sh..

along with my old 8 x 1070 mining rig (4 years old) that gives me a nice 500 m/sh...

i have decided that cash in the bank is a total waste of space.. i have turned some of it into something that isnt.. i also decided that mining hardware is just gonna get more expensive so the quicker it gets bought and earning money the better..

i hodl and add to my bitcoin stash with mining.. i view it as a long term thing...

trog


----------



## moproblems99 (Mar 19, 2021)

This is the one time I have considered buying a scalped 3080.  As set it to mine until it pays itself back to msrp


----------



## trog100 (Mar 19, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> This is the one time I have considered buying a scalped 3080.  As set it to mine until it pays itself back to msrp



your only mistake was not buying one earlier.. 

trog


----------



## Zach_01 (Mar 19, 2021)

Mescalamba said:


> I wouldnt buy GPU today. Sure, price of BTC might stay high, but since there is basically no way to tell what will be next ATH and when it will be reached and what will happen after..
> 
> Basically you might buy GPU today with idea that it will "pay for itself" within a year or half, but what will happen if BTC does its typical nosedive after ATH? How profitable will be mining at 50% of current price or 30%?
> 
> ...


To stop mining after prices nose dive is a practice of those who are after opportunistic profit. The ones that are not sure, or don’t believe that the prices will go up again or the ones that want profit now or all the above. It’s a practice that I can understand. But seems very short sighted to me.

I’m into crypto long term wise. And I mean at least 10-15 years or even more. I’ve put some money in that market, already got it back and still I have a triple that in it. And I was mining (and also buying some) during the 2018-2019 nose dive. All this after “only” 3 years.

Personal Opinion...
Cryptocurrency or digital assets if you prefer are here to stay many years and we are only in the beginning. The world is getting in it more and more. From regular people to institutes, organizations, digital service companies and even Visa and MasterCard will/are dive in. As I said Revolut is already exists. It’s a world in progress and still in its infancy.

And for all this to be vanished, disappear or worth nothing it will take something like WWIII, where any fiat currency will turn into the most lousy toilet paper ever. So... I don’t think I’m loosing anything.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 20, 2021)

bitcoin is making another play for 60K..

eth is about 1870..

will it make it or get kicked back down again.. 

trog


----------



## ppn (Mar 20, 2021)

There is a run at the beginning of every month like no other, usually after the healthy correction. Hodl buy the gap, rinse and repeat. So this is whole thing is just measuring the signal reading capabilities and knee jerk reactions. And it really acomplishes nothing in the end besides making a few people rich, and many poor. Clearly there is a big wave of salaries being thrown into the fire pit at the start of every month. yeah. With 1.016/026 conversion, the exchanges must own the market thousand times over by now, so what is this whole thing meaning. You are playing against the house, and the house always wins. This avalanche represents just that.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 21, 2021)

it briefly hit 60K but got knocked back down again..  its now at 56K and eth is at 1776..

the next time maybe.. he he..

trog


----------



## Radi_SVK (Mar 23, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> This is the one time I have considered buying a scalped 3080.  As set it to mine until it pays itself back to msrp


Was never into crypto mining myself, but thats exactly what I have decided to do! And I can consider myself lucky to get an 3080 for £689 ordered at the launch, after a 1.5 month  wait.
Way way too lucky to avoid them ridiculous prices right now (and for a good while already). So my plan is to make the 3080 pay back for the cost of the whole build, which was somewhere near £2400.
I am not in hurry and have to say I am also glad I have overcome the initial scepticism. Took a while to set things up for optimal settings, but is done and I mine 12 - 20 hours, never 24H. I am getting mostly 91MH/s up to 95MH/s @ only 65% power limit, which sits around 208W , making average £5 a days. Happy days..


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 23, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> And why is THAT happening? Hmmm?


A pandemic?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Mar 23, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> A pandemic?


That's a part of the problem, sure, but not the whole problem.

BTW, It looks like coin prices are tetering... Could this be the beginning of the next crash?


----------



## trog100 (Mar 23, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> That's a part of the problem, sure, but not the whole problem.
> 
> BTW, It looks like coin prices are tetering... Could this be the beginning of the next crash?



it got close to 60K a few days back it always get kicked down when it hits 60K.. its now at just under 56K.. not many signs of the next crash there.. just a normal blip.. 

trog


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 23, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> That's a part of the problem, sure, but not the whole problem.


It's absolutely the chief problem (although not the exclusive problem, as you note, just the biggest).

You can't even buy webcams at normal rates and no miners are buying those.  The pandemic is the biggest issue.

The pandemic was a double whammy (reduced production + increased demand).  If it's the cancer, the other things are more like opportunistic infections.  We could've handled all of them were it not for the pandemic.  Heck, some of this instability and coin-valueing is driven by the pandemics uncertainty.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Mar 23, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> It's absolutely the chief problem (although not the exclusive problem, as you note, just the biggest).


We'll have to agree to disagree on that. The reason I disagree is that the GPU shortage problems didn't start until the turn of the year. In the whole of 2020 the market was just fine. So the pandemic reason simply does not hold water and is therefore nearly meritless. It may be currently compounding the problem, but it is not the cause.


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 23, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> The reason I disagree is that the GPU shortage problems didn't start until the turn of the year.


I mean, we were still distributing silicon released in 2019 was the chief reason for that.  But it's really pointless to argue about.  The end result is the same: suckage.


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 23, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> India to propose cryptocurrency ban, penalising miners, traders - source
> 
> 
> India will propose a law banning cryptocurrencies, fining anyone trading in the country or even holding such digital assets, a senior government official told Reuters in a potential blow to millions of investors piling into the red-hot asset class.
> ...




What came of this? When is the vote expected?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Mar 23, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> The end result is the same: suckage.


Agreed.

Ok, just watched this. It was interesting. Linus dropped some serious logic here..









R-T-B, I will concede. You might be right.


----------



## Zach_01 (Mar 23, 2021)

You can say I am a fan of crypto, and I have to admit that the current shortage and overpricing of GPUs is a mining thing more than anything else. Miners are willing to pay x2 and x3 the MSRP because of the gain return. It would still be profitable even if crypto prices drop to 1/3 from current. I'm out of mining long ago because now I dont need it.

I remember back at 2018 when this happend for the first time and along with GPUs some specific boards went up in price and all PSUs also. And it didnt matter if they were large wattage or not. Just like now it doesnt matter if the GPU is highend or midrange or entry level. Once demand is through the roof the whole market segment is up in prices. Same for PSUs.


----------



## moproblems99 (Mar 23, 2021)

Mining is as much the reason of the gpu shortage as it is the reason for toilet paper shortages.  Well, I take that back.  There are more miners buying gpus than whiners blowing their noses in tp.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 24, 2021)

the pandemic has caused economic problems its also caused massive money creation.. add the two together and you have something that could not be predicted.. lots of people not working but getting more money via stimulus checks than if they were working.. the demand is high but the production is low..

a shortage of goods and no shortage of money leads to inflation.. which is exactly what we are seeing and as long as the stimulus checks keep coming the situation will just get worse..

one of the reason big business is buying into bitcoin is because the dollar is losing its purchasing power.. its all a bit of a f-ck up with no easy answer..

having said that without the stimulus checks there would be societal breakdown.. the poor really would be eating the rich..

trog


----------



## Mescalamba (Mar 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> What came of this? When is the vote expected?



Nothing, only ppl from India will have another reason to be angry at their abomination of a government.

News like this has about same impact on BTC price as Musk tweeting. Eg. none.

You would need something seriously important to impact price somehow. Was bit like China banning BTC during previous bull run, after second or third statement nobody gave a f--k.



trog100 said:


> the pandemic has caused economic problems its also caused massive money creation.. add the two together and you have something that could not be predicted.. lots of people not working but getting more money via stimulus checks than if they were working.. the demand is high but the production is low..
> 
> a shortage of goods and no shortage of money leads to inflation.. which is exactly what we are seeing and as long as the stimulus checks keep coming the situation will just get worse..
> 
> ...



World is atm close or at breakpoint anyway. Either rich will liquidate poor, or poor will do the same with rich. I guess there are some possible good (not that horrible) outcomes, but wouldnt bet on that.. Future looks rather dark.


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 24, 2021)

Mescalamba said:


> Nothing, only ppl from India will have another reason to be angry at their abomination of a government.
> 
> News like this has about same impact on BTC price as Musk tweeting. Eg. none.
> 
> ...




I could care less at end of day, but it is sad to see how quickly crypto and fiat are both ok with their environmental impact. There is no time left, I fully expect climate change will cause mass migration by the billions, with a b, within 20 years. Humans tried and failed, a shame indeed, oh well. Time to enjoy some reading or gaming in the mean time.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 24, 2021)

Just curious, if you make 5 bucks a day, how much power do you consume? Surely more than 5 bucks?


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 24, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Just curious, if you make 5 bucks a day, how much power do you consume? Surely more than 5 bucks?



no, usually when people say they make 5 bucks in a day they are including their wattage use/power bill, so really they are making like 8 a day just off top of my head depending where you live, etc.

also, a lot of people steal power from work, neighbors, friends, parents, etc. they just don't admit it here or to anyone else. it's all rather sad.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 25, 2021)

my current power bill is at least $10 dollars per day but my gross take is around $50 dollars per day which goes into my bitcoin stash..  the real value will be governed by what bitcoin does in the future..

electricity isnt cheap where i live.. i do have to pay the leccy bill while all this is going on.. i am using about 1750 watts 24/7..

i am running about 520 m/sh.. i would run more but the hardware costs are too high and i dont see them coming down.. 

trog


----------



## Zach_01 (Mar 25, 2021)

trog100 said:


> my current power bill is at least $10 dollars per day but my gross take is around $50 dollars per day which goes into my bitcoin stash..  the real value will be governed by what bitcoin does in the future..
> 
> electricity isnt cheap where i live.. i do have to pay the leccy bill while all this is going on.. i am using about 1750 watts 24/7..
> 
> ...


Isn't cheap indeed... I would pay half of that for the same wattage.


----------



## moproblems99 (Mar 25, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> also, a lot of people steal power from work, neighbors, friends, parents, etc. they just don't admit it here or to anyone else. it's all rather sad.



That's a big generalization, care to back it up?


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 25, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> That's a big generalization, care to back it up?



Common sense. I forgot to add one, university dorm rooms. Thanks for reminding me.


----------



## moproblems99 (Mar 25, 2021)

Hmmmm...common sense?  Is Lex your father?


----------



## trog100 (Mar 25, 2021)

current hardware costs to mine eth are very high.. i would say roughly around $2000 per 100 m/sh..

100 m/sh would return maybe $10 dollars per day less power costs.. long term this is still profitable but long term is still a bit of an unknown..

once the returns get high enough power costs just become a small percentage of the gross...

trog


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 25, 2021)

trog100 said:


> current hardware costs to mine eth are very high.. i would say roughly around $2000 per 100 m/sh..
> 
> 100 m/sh would return maybe $10 dollars per day less power costs.. long term this is still profitable but long term is still a bit of an unknown..
> 
> ...



Long term is fine too.

I watched a roundtable discussion (the digital kind) between some of the bigger players behind mining and more or less they figured out how much one would make after the ETH update and switching to other cryptocoins.  The big one is if Raven does become the main alternative, and it gets to $1 per coin, it would be more profitable to mine that than ETH currently.  I know bitsbetrippin is looking at other altcoins as well to see where the profit margin will be.  I know Conflux hasn't been mentioned much but that also has opportunity.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 25, 2021)

bitcoin took a surprise hit last night.. down from 55K-ish to 52K-ish... 

musk announces he is swapping his tesla vehicles for bitcoin.. this should have boosted the bitcoin price but it went down.. he he..

i can only think whales are playing whale games.. there is no other logical reason for the dip... 

trog


----------



## lexluthermiester (Mar 25, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> Hmmmm...common sense?  Is Lex your father?


I love the personal jabs. They're funny as hell. Pathetically nitwitted, but funny..


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 25, 2021)

trog100 said:


> bitcoin took a surprise hit last night.. down from 55K-ish to 52K-ish...
> 
> musk announces he is swapping his tesla vehicles for bitcoin.. this should have boosted the bitcoin price but it went down.. he he..
> 
> ...


I also looked into this and some were mentioning that it's tax time and markets all got hit.  So they say that it's about this week every year it ends in the red to only rebound in April.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 25, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> I also looked into this and some were mentioning that it's tax time and markets all got hit.  So they say that it's about this week every year it ends in the red to only rebound in April.



yes the stock markets are all in the red.. the US markets havnt opened yet.. they are the ones that matter.. 

trog


----------



## moproblems99 (Mar 25, 2021)

trog100 said:


> bitcoin took a surprise hit last night.. down from 55K-ish to 52K-ish...



When will people realize there are no surprises in btc?


----------



## dgianstefani (Mar 25, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> no, usually when people say they make 5 bucks in a day they are including their wattage use/power bill, so really they are making like 8 a day just off top of my head depending where you live, etc.
> 
> also, a lot of people steal power from work, neighbors, friends, parents, etc. they just don't admit it here or to anyone else. it's all rather sad.


Power is like 10-15% of income if using latest gen cards.

Tuned 3080s will use 240w, 3090s 280w with no loss of mining perf. Easy enough to run off solar.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 25, 2021)

That's not bad, so just like running a game? 350-450w usage? Pretty decent.. I thought it would be like running furmark or something


----------



## trog100 (Mar 25, 2021)

my four year old  (200 m/sh) 8 x 1070 rig uses twice the power that my 3080 cards do for the same m/sh.. but at current prices it would cost about £8000 to replace them with more efficient 3060TI cards.. so it aint gonna get done.. he he

there is an 8 x 3060ti rig on UK ebay for £11500 i have looked at it but 11K plus is out of my league.. 

trog


----------



## toilet pepper (Mar 25, 2021)

trog100 said:


> bitcoin took a surprise hit last night.. down from 55K-ish to 52K-ish...
> 
> musk announces he is swapping his tesla vehicles for bitcoin.. this should have boosted the bitcoin price but it went down.. he he..
> 
> ...


Some people will call it a Flash Sale.


----------



## Colddecked (Mar 25, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Just curious, if you make 5 bucks a day, how much power do you consume? Surely more than 5 bucks?



With my my setup which isn't the most efficient since its not just a mining rig (3800x, 3 570s+5700) using off the top of my head maths, I pay about an extra 1.5 dollars a day in electric costs compared to the time period last year without mining.  So about 40 to 50 extra dollars a month in electric compared to last year, and in return have been getting around 400 worth of crypto a month, so a net profit of about 350.  I live in an area with 11cent per kWh power, not terribly expensive but not exactly cheap either.


----------



## Dinnercore (Mar 25, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Just curious, if you make 5 bucks a day, how much power do you consume? Surely more than 5 bucks?


I think its safe to say I got one of the highest power costs here. I got a contract for 'green' eco-friendly electricity to support renewable energy.

I pay 0,34€ per kWh. My PC (not a mining optimized rig) uses 560W for ~ 152MH/s. This means I pay 4,57€ per day on electricity but I still make a net profit of 11,82€ per day in BTC at the current price (dipped down a little). 16,39€ per day would be the profit if power was free for me, but I actually pay for mine.

Due to the current crypto market situation you can mine with good ROI even where power is most expensive.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Mar 25, 2021)

toilet pepper said:


> Some people will call it a Flash Sale.



That's exactly the way I look at it.


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 25, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> That's exactly the way I look at it.



I'm more bullish on Bitcoin Cash long term than regular Bitcoin. I think Elon Musk will accept Bitcoin Cash at some point for Tesla too.

Don't care either way since I am not investing, but eh.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 26, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I'm more bullish on Bitcoin Cash long term than regular Bitcoin. I think Elon Musk will accept Bitcoin Cash at some point for Tesla too.
> 
> Don't care either way since I am not investing, but eh.



the important point about musk accepting bitcoin for cars is that he isnt converting the bitcoin back to cash the firms treasury is now in bitcoin.. no fiat..

for day to day cash they will borrow using the bitcoin as collateral.. in short they have a limitless supply of cash money if they need it without having to dip into the bitcoin treasury.. this will keep growing.. 

as more and more large organizations do this the value of bitcoin goes up.. fiat will still be needed for day to day smaller transactions but the real money (wealth) will be stored as bitcoin..

interesting stuff.. 

trog


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 26, 2021)

trog100 said:


> but getting more money via stimulus checks than if they were working..


What kind of low paying job do you work?  The stimulus checks aren't even survivable on their own...  I assume you are in the USA?


----------



## trog100 (Mar 26, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> What kind of low paying job do you work?  The stimulus checks aren't even survivable on their own...  I assume you are in the USA?



i am in the UK.. in the US the stimulus checks are needed by some but a free cash handouts to others.. those that need it are struggling like the poor always do but to others its just extra cash to spend..

in the UK its done a bit differently.. firms are being paid to keep workers on as opposed to sacking them.. there are no free hand outs to all or loads of folks that dont really need them.. some self employed get help but not all..

ultimately its all moving towards a universal basic income.. the US is going socialist the UK not so much so..

i am retired i dont have any job.. when i did work i was self employed..

trog

ps.. the poor cant really get much poorer minimum wage or not.. they have to be kept going one way or another to avoid societal breakdown..


----------



## Metroid (Mar 26, 2021)

I just got gpu updated prices today, plenty to buy, 3090 for 3999 usd, 3080 for 2200 usd, 3070 for 1450 usd, 3060ti for 1250 usd and 3060 for 1000 usd. I guess only idiots, desperate or people with more money than sense will buy them, for reference, last month a 3060ti was 700 usd, in january i could find for 500 usd. I have seen these same movements in 2011, 2014 and 2018 and now 2021. This crypto market will crash so hard, huge bulltrap will be forming soon and that last bulltrap will trap many wanna be riches ehhe


----------



## trog100 (Mar 26, 2021)

Metroid said:


> I just got gpu updated prices today, plenty to buy, 3090 for 3999 usd, 3080 for 2200 usd, 3070 for 1450 usd, 3060ti for 1250 usd and 3060 for 1000 usd. I guess only idiots, desperate or people with more money than sense will buy them, for reference, last month a 3060ti was 700 usd, in january i could find for 500 usd. I have seen these same movements in 2011, 2014 and 2018 and now 2021. This crypto market will crash so hard, huge bulltrap will be forming soon and that last bulltrap will trap many wanna be riches ehhe



each time it crashes it comes back higher.. this is history talking.. the wise just hodl through each crash and wait for the come back higher.. crypto is a long term thing not a get rich quick scheme.. 

trog


----------



## Metroid (Mar 26, 2021)

trog100 said:


> each time it crashes it comes back higher.. this is history talking.. the wise just hodl through each crash and wait for the come back higher.. crypto is a long term thing not a get rich quick scheme..
> 
> trog


You see that is where you are mistaken if you think about the future, a very good example is gold, there will be a time where bitcoin will not be going up anymore, instead it will be going down and then scammers and market creators and manipulators will create something else to replace bitcoin because they need to keep making 10 to 50 times their money and will be a time that bitcoin will not be going up anymore like it has been past 10 years. It cant sustain the growth it has had past 10 years, you trolls should open your eyes and face reality before is too late, everything is bound to be replaced at some point even in this example gold or anything else, because hype creates fomo and fomo creates bulltraps.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Mar 26, 2021)

True backers of Crypto, and especially BTC, actually want to plateau and level off. That is the only way it can be used as a currency. A Currency needs to be stable and crypto is still in it's infancy right now with tons of speculation but eventually it will level off.


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 26, 2021)

trog100 said:


> the important point about musk accepting bitcoin for cars is that he isnt converting the bitcoin back to cash the firms treasury is now in bitcoin.. no fiat..
> 
> for day to day cash they will borrow using the bitcoin as collateral.. in short they have a limitless supply of cash money if they need it without having to dip into the bitcoin treasury.. this will keep growing..
> 
> ...



elon musk even admits there is a problem with bitcoin though, and that is if you go buy a bag of chips with it your paying more in blockchain fees than the bags of chips is worth. bitcoin cash however does not have this problem. and i wouldn't be surprised if btc cash gets a surge someday. 

also as i said before, enjoy your wealth over next ten years instead of hoddling forever, i assure you climate change will cause mass migration in billions wants crop failures begin in mass, etc.



ZenZimZaliben said:


> True backers of Crypto, and especially BTC, actually want to plateau and level off. That is the only way it can be used as a currency. A Currency needs to be stable and crypto is still in it's infancy right now with tons of speculation but eventually it will level off.



how do you fix the fee problem? if you can't fix that than you can't use btc as currency.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Mar 26, 2021)

The "Market" will dictate when it plateau's. When people buy/sell at an even distribution.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 26, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> elon musk even admits there is a problem with bitcoin though, and that is if you go buy a bag of chips with it your paying more in blockchain fees than the bags of chips is worth. bitcoin cash however does not have this problem. and i wouldn't be surprised if btc cash gets a surge someday.
> 
> also as i said before, enjoy your wealth over next ten years instead of hoddling forever, i assure you climate change will cause mass migration in billions wants crop failures begin in mass, etc.
> 
> ...



i think you are kind of missing the point.. bitcoin can exist as a store of value and it can be used to buy high ticket items just like a tesla car.. fiat can exist along side it and be used to buy your fish and chips.. he he

the bottom line being bitcoin dosnt need to be a currency.. its use is a store of value.. kind of like gold.. which also isnt much use to buy fish and chips with..

the idea that bitcoin needs to be an everyday currency is out of date.. time to move on..

keep your stash in bitcoin and it goes up in value.. keep your stash in fiat and it goes down in value.. the logic is pretty simple.. 

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 26, 2021)

trog100 said:


> i think you are kind of missing the point.. bitcoin can exist as a store of value and it can be used to buy high ticket items just like a tesla car.. fiat can exist along side it and be used to buy your fish and chips.. he he
> 
> the bottom line being bitcoin dosnt need to be a currency.. its use is a store of value.. kind of like gold.. which also isnt much use to buy fish and chips with..
> 
> ...



fair enough. i recommend you at least buy some seeds and keep them in freezer storage, alternating new seeds every year. i assure you the world is going to change within our lifetime, and seeds for food growth will be more valuable than any form of money.


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 26, 2021)

trog100 said:


> i am in the UK..


Ah forgive me then.  We got a grand total of like $1200 through the whole darn pandemic...  Not sure I'd call that socialist, lol.  I'd have to eat my dog if I weren't self employed and/or got fired.


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 26, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Ah forgive me then.  We got a grand total of like $1200 through the whole darn pandemic...  Not sure I'd call that socialist, lol.  I'd have to eat my dog if I weren't self employed and/or got fired.


I heard Beef Bow Wow is delicious.


----------



## phill (Mar 26, 2021)

Been an interesting catch guys, thanks for the read  



dgianstefani said:


> Power is like 10-15% of income if using latest gen cards.
> 
> Tuned 3080s will use 240w, 3090s 280w with no loss of mining perf. Easy enough to run off solar.


Solar is a bonus but that's only for when it works...  I do have it, 12 panel array (305w panels) they can produce up to 4kW, but that will depend on a lot of factors and again how long the solar works at that level of production..  I had them installed back in 2017 just as I was getting into mining and when it was going into Autumn months which wasn't a great mix lol 

Over here, electric is a bit hit of any profit you might earn.  I believe my electric cost will be going up 1p a kW which sucks, I think it'll be roughly 18p/kW (about 25 cents based on todays exchange rate, a mate of mine in the US pays 11 cents for his, about 8p kW) so even with the same hash rate, the difference in profit is massive because of the lower costs in electric.
However, say on an average good day in the UK, the solar helps me make 10 to 15 kW (from say 9am till 6pm or so) due to when I bought the solar I got in on a feed in tariff which I get paid to produce the electric from the panels and then I get another payment for putting 50% back to the grid.  Whether or not I give 50% back or not, that is still paid as well.  I know with my solar I've never bothered to worry about how much it costs me to run things, I just use what I can and as PCs are left on more so at the moment, I try to keep my usage around that of the solar production, so I'm producing as much as I'm using or possibly a bit more.  

Power is so easy to use and I noticed @trog100 mentioning the costs of the cards and I couldn't bother paying out so much on a single card like a 3060 TI.  Like Trog though, I am using older hardware to do this mining stuff.  Its cards I've had for ages and I am still using today, even 24/7 which isn't cheap but ain't the worst in the world.  When I can get replacements for them, I will be replacing them and using the newer cards.
I think personally, the 3070s are going to give the best hash/power usage.  Miners aren't so daft to buy just the fastest cards out there but the most efficient.  I've a couple 3090s and boy are they inefficient..  Not good for mining on at all but in a way more efficient than my older cards, like the RX480s.  I'm glad for the solar.... 

Still I might be all over the place with this post, apologies, but just wished to back up a few things with all this going on.  

I'm surprised thought at @trog100 for not doing a little trading with the coin he has as he'd make more buying/selling it, than as he's mentioned than mining it.  The way Bitcoin/Eth/etc. you look at goes up and down (I'll try to remain not rude at this point!! ) you can make some serious money from it.  Buying in on it is one way to do it, but I'd bet that with a good look at how it rises and falls, each time you catch one of those high's/low's, you could net yourself 1000's  

As an example, less than a week ago on the 20th, Eth was priced at just over 1850.  Now its lowest was just a bit over 1560.  That's not far short of 300 a coin difference.  If you had enough for even 3 or 4 coins stashed away, there's what I'd say is a fair decent pay for a month at about 1200 bucks...  Obviously the more you have, the higher the profits but also higher the risks....  But that's with no electric usage or anything, so even more profit...  If only you could catch the rises and falls so simply 

I'll shut up now but it's a good thread to keep up to date with   Thanks guys for the nice chat


----------



## trog100 (Mar 27, 2021)

phill said:


> Been an interesting catch guys, thanks for the read
> 
> 
> Solar is a bonus but that's only for when it works...  I do have it, 12 panel array (305w panels) they can produce up to 4kW, but that will depend on a lot of factors and again how long the solar works at that level of production..  I had them installed back in 2017 just as I was getting into mining and when it was going into Autumn months which wasn't a great mix lol
> ...



a 3080 is the most efficient out of the bunch phil probably twice as efficient as my old 1070 cards.. but i have just gone mad and bought 4 new asus 3060ti cards to replace 4 of my old 1070 cards.. ouch..

i should be getting around 650 m/sh..  running 24/7 that should give me $65 dollars or so per day less power costs.. that actually works out at over $23000 dollars a year..  i think of it as buying bitcoin on the cheap.. i just let it accumulate on the assumption that long term bitcoin will keep going up..

i do think my leccy bill will be tad on the high side though.. he he

trog


----------



## phill (Mar 27, 2021)

trog100 said:


> a 3080 is the most efficient out of the bunch phil probably twice as efficient as my old 1070 cards.. but i have just gone mad and bought 4 new asus 3060ti cards to replace 4 of my old 1070 cards.. ouch..
> 
> i should be getting around 650 m/sh..  running 24/7 that should give me $65 dollars or so per day less power costs.. that actually works out at over $23000 dollars a year..  i think of it as buying bitcoin on the cheap.. i just let it accumulate on the assumption that long term bitcoin will keep going up..
> 
> ...


Well you say that, but been able to get a bit of testing done with a few cards of late, if you think that the 3080 will take (reportedly through one of the miners) about 250w say for argument, a 3070 will do half that and produce about the 60 to 65MH rate.  So for two of them, they are going to kicking out up to 130MH and at the same similar level of power consumption.  As for the price, hopefully the 3070's are less than half the price of the 3080 but who knows right now...  At the standard rate of MSRP $500 vs $700 I think (??) you are of course having a bit of a harder job to justify two cards over one but for making the cash back, it's a given.  

As long as the cards are tweaked to the best of their abilities and that the PSUs are decent Gold units, I think they will do brilliant work.  I think the 3060 Ti's are about the same level as the 3070s but I certainly wouldn't buy them now as they are just stupidly priced.  If I could find them nearer to the MSRP, that would be a different matter.  The 3060 Ti's are a little slower than the 3070s, so maybe they might hash about the 55 to 60MH range I guess?  Same power level though ironically...  Hopefully they won't have the high Junction temp on the RAM which is what is the problem with the 3080 and 3090.  Running them so close to the edge is never a good idea in my head personally, I'd rather loose a few MH and get the temps down to a reasonable level...  It's how I've always dealt with crunching for WCG or folding for FAH..  It's no different mining as it's not a case of who can get to the finish line first, but who can keep things going the longest without the hassles and stresses of things going wrong   Well it seems to make sense in my head.  Plus then with all the extra power consumptions etc. as mentioned above in a previous comment, doing something efficiently is all about the miners thoughts because why would you want to waste even 10w of power on something if it wasn't needed.  It'll just cut into your profits over time.  Might only be a little but it'll soon add up over time.... 

Please let us know how you get on Trog   It's nice having the chats like it, I always believe two heads are better than one


----------



## dgianstefani (Mar 27, 2021)

Bearing in mind that 3090s go for 10-20% over their MSRP and 3080s and below go for double MSRP. 

In my view it's worth the extra few hundred to just exclusively buy 3090s. 110-120mh per card compared to 105 or below (typically 90 something tuned) for 3080.  If the market does crash and GPUs flood onto market you haven't paid twice MSRP and could probably get 70%+ back of what you paid for your card. 

Personally I'm of the view that mine through the crashes - isn't about the monthly money or income it's about long term accumulation of crypto for investment. 

Hold. 

If I'd held every coin I mined since 2017 I would have several hundred thousand by now for an investment of less than 10k. Still going up.

In the event of a total and absolute irrecoverable crypto crash as the naysayers like to talk about, I've already made back my inital investment several times over so.

I've also found that the founders 3090 with the thermal pad backplate mod (I repaste/repad all cards from new anyway) is the best 3090 model. Heatsink is massive, build quality top notch, has the advantage of only needing 2x8 pin (believe me there are 3x8 pin 3080s that _require _3 8 pins even when power limit is like 260w) so you don't run out of PSU PCIE slots.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 27, 2021)

I kind of wish I would have gotten into this when I had the chance. I was highly skeptical.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 27, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I kind of wish I would have gotten into this when I had the chance. I was highly skeptical.



i kinda wish i had bought more hardware back in january.. what seemed expensive back then seems cheap now 

so far i have spent about £8 K this year on mining hardware.. my first buy a couple of months back was a 3080 to replace my 2080ti.. i was gonna sell the 2080ti but i ended up keeping the 2080ti and running it along side the new 3080.. i paid £1045 for the 3080 they are now £1900..

my second  buy was a complete ready build with a 3080 installed it cost £1750 about the same price as a 3080 card on its own at the time.. my next buy was a 3060ti to run with the 3080 in the pre-build.. the pre-build went up by £650 while i was waiting for mine to arrive they are now £2350..

i then just bought 4 asus 3060ti cards.. or more accurately 3 3060ti cards and one 3070 card.. they cost roughly 4 grand for the 4... they have yet to arrive.. this monday or tuesday maybe..

the snag with replacing what you already have is you lose the output from the cards you are replacing.. but i have run out of places to put them so replacing my 1070 cards is the only way..

i will have 4 x 1070 and 4 x 3060ti cards in my mining rig.. this should give me around 340 M/sh... along with the two desk top machines i should be getting around 650 m/sh..

one thing i have learned so far is the longer you wait the more it costs.. this assumes bitcoin keeps going up..

my palit 3080 runs sweet my gigabyte 3080 runs hot on the memory i had to take it apart and add more pads and paste..

any cards i buy now are the ones with over size coolers and i avoid gigabyte..

trog


----------



## phill (Mar 28, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Bearing in mind that 3090s go for 10-20% over their MSRP and 3080s and below go for double MSRP.
> 
> In my view it's worth the extra few hundred to just exclusively buy 3090s. 110-120mh per card compared to 105 or below (typically 90 something tuned) for 3080.  If the market does crash and GPUs flood onto market you haven't paid twice MSRP and could probably get 70%+ back of what you paid for your card.
> 
> ...


I've a few 3090s and I can say hand on heart, they aren't the best for the mining.  I've two models, a MSI Gaming Trio X and a Asus Strix.  The MSI is based on a reference type design, very little power overclocking and all the rest of that jazz.  The Strix I believe has a 1000w bios on it, won't be using that for mining on!!

Still, the MSI the RAM gets too hot and I have to underclock it when I go to bed, it's not a very good board at all for mining on...  Currently getting 96MH with that one....  
The Strix, whilst it's a load better built and all the rest of that jazz, the sheer RAM temps are more or less the same, but that one can manage 120MH...  But the RAM temps make me use caution and I'd back it down if it means the RAM is running cooler, especially for 24/7 use.  

One of my reference 3080s I have will manage 100MH on its own without too much trouble, another will hit about 95MH.  I can't recommend personally with the above a 3090 or really a 3080 due to the price they are going for.  I didn't massively over pay but I certainly wouldn't be paying out triple or quadruple the cards worth.  Return on that is terrible.  
As an example my MSI card was £1600 MSRP, I paid £1900 (kinda wished I hadn't bothered really) but since the day I have had it, it's been mining away earning me back the price I paid for it.  I seriously wouldn't have bought it if I couldn't do this.  I believe from my rough workings out with power taken out the way, it'll take me something like 65 weeks to get it to pay for itself at the current prices/reward rates.  $2660 roughly for the card, $41 profit a week, with the power taken out.  With the card costing it's MSRP (roughly $2240), it's 10 and a bit weeks less, but we'll still say 55 weeks.  
Our 3070s we have would take about 30% of that time and the 3080s about half...

I make the point of not spending over the odds for a card, I simply won't do it just in case anything goes mental.  The MSI was a very daft thing to do, but I'm damn sure it'll be earning its money back one way or another!!  

@trog100 what is your hash rate roughly with your 1070?  I run mine from time to time and it's hitting about 25/26MH??   My 1080 Ti's aren't massively better, roughly 10MH higher at 35 to 36MH each....   My RX 480s are managing about 27 to 28 maybe a little more but 5 of them do suck the juice and they aren't all that great anymore.  I'll be considering to swap them out at some point with newer cards.  I'm very much considering 3070's judging on how they perform and their power rating


----------



## dgianstefani (Mar 28, 2021)

phill said:


> I've a few 3090s and I can say hand on heart, they aren't the best for the mining.  I've two models, a MSI Gaming Trio X and a Asus Strix.  The MSI is based on a reference type design, very little power overclocking and all the rest of that jazz.  The Strix I believe has a 1000w bios on it, won't be using that for mining on!!
> 
> Still, the MSI the RAM gets too hot and I have to underclock it when I go to bed, it's not a very good board at all for mining on...  Currently getting 96MH with that one....
> The Strix, whilst it's a load better built and all the rest of that jazz, the sheer RAM temps are more or less the same, but that one can manage 120MH...  But the RAM temps make me use caution and I'd back it down if it means the RAM is running cooler, especially for 24/7 use.
> ...


Like I said... Repad the cards with 15w/mk and you'll see ram temps drop 15c

You also need a case fan per card, preferably two, one on each end. Arctic p12 are cheap and quiet.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 28, 2021)

phill said:


> I've a few 3090s and I can say hand on heart, they aren't the best for the mining.  I've two models, a MSI Gaming Trio X and a Asus Strix.  The MSI is based on a reference type design, very little power overclocking and all the rest of that jazz.  The Strix I believe has a 1000w bios on it, won't be using that for mining on!!
> 
> Still, the MSI the RAM gets too hot and I have to underclock it when I go to bed, it's not a very good board at all for mining on...  Currently getting 96MH with that one....
> The Strix, whilst it's a load better built and all the rest of that jazz, the sheer RAM temps are more or less the same, but that one can manage 120MH...  But the RAM temps make me use caution and I'd back it down if it means the RAM is running cooler, especially for 24/7 use.
> ...



my 1070 cards are doing a very consistent 26 m/sh phil.. the power efficiency isnt that good but the rig has paid for itself several times over... i get around 200 m/sh for the 8 card rig.. its uses just under 1 kh.. 

one of my recently ordered asus tuf 3060ti cards has been canceled so i only have three coming.. i will take the hint and leave it at three..

replacing cards isnt that clever for each new 60 m/sh 3060ti i lose one 26 m/sh 1070.. 

hardware costs at what they are i think i will leave off buying new gear.. i do think more long term than how long it will take to get my money back.. i am also prepared to take a loss if it all tanks.. nothing ventured nothing gained or so they say.. he he

i am mining just to get more bitcoin.. the big gain as i see it will come from bitcoin going much higher.. i think it will over the next few years.. but i could be wrong..  

trog

ps.. mining apart i do now have a couple of nice gaming machines.. one 3080/3060ti and one 3080/2080ti ..


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 28, 2021)

BITCOIN IS OLD NEW BOYS!!! THETA TO THE MOON!!! from 9 cents to 13 dollars a coin in under two months, hot damn!









						Theta Network price today, THETA to USD live, marketcap and chart | CoinMarketCap
					

Get the latest Theta Network price, THETA market cap, trading pairs, charts and data today from the world’s number one cryptocurrency price-tracking website




					coinmarketcap.com


----------



## trog100 (Mar 29, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> BITCOIN IS OLD NEW BOYS!!! THETA TO THE MOON!!! from 9 cents to 13 dollars a coin in under two months, hot damn!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



bitcoin is old and its also boring.. but its the daddy and as the daddy its more secure.. 

trog


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## Space Lynx (Mar 29, 2021)

trog100 said:


> bitcoin is old and its also boring.. but its the daddy and as the daddy its more secure..
> 
> trog



more secure to pumps and dumps out of China, but you already know how to play that game.

this is just another game. one played by poor people trying to get rich quick

and in the mean time:









						China generated over half world's coal-fired power in 2020: study
					

China generated 53% of the world's total coal-fired power in 2020, nine percentage points more that five years earlier, despite climate pledges and the building of hundreds of renewable energy plants, a global data study showed on Monday.




					www.reuters.com
				




that moment when you realize Elon Musk commenting about how China is going green faster than anyone else was all a lie.   

I hope Elon figures out Mars, cause I am 100% certain now humans are going to destroy Earth with climate change.


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## phill (Mar 29, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Like I said... Repad the cards with 15w/mk and you'll see ram temps drop 15c
> 
> You also need a case fan per card, preferably two, one on each end. Arctic p12 are cheap and quiet.



Is that generally how it works?  per 1w/mK its a 1C  drop in temps??  I would say that I'm not completely bothered by the card but I will just keep it under temp check and make sure it stays under 100C...  In the coming 2 months I've owned the card, I've not seen it average more than 95C on the RAM Temp..  A slightly higher fan speed would lower it down but I'm not going to make the noise of the system any more than what it already is.  I have considered putting my two 1080 Ti's into this rig and putting the 3090 into another downstairs in the conservatory...  It'll be cooler down there at night and I could run it a little harder than what I do currently but we'll see 



trog100 said:


> my 1070 cards are doing a very consistent 26 m/sh phil.. the power efficiency isnt that good but the rig has paid for itself several times over... i get around 200 m/sh for the 8 card rig.. its uses just under 1 kh..
> 
> one of my recently ordered asus tuf 3060ti cards has been canceled so i only have three coming.. i will take the hint and leave it at three..
> 
> ...


Ah my 1070 SC seems to average about the 25.5 to 26MH marker, just depends on where I put the power slider  

I'd look at this way Trog for the 1070s, even 3 3060 Ti's will hit say 180MH and at around 400w for the full system I'd guess??  for 200MH and then nearly 1000w, you'd be doing so much better efficiency wise, it's kinda scary  

I was working a few sums out myself and for MSRP, for a 3070, they'd take about 21 weeks to pay back one card on it's own in a rig (200w usage, 60MH, block reward 3.36Eth, using 25 cents kW electric charge - changing it to about 11 cents a kW made it jump from 295% profit to 799% just through the cheaper electric) 

I always feel if anything happens and I've got more cards than I need, I can always start running one every so often for the TPU FAH Team   I don't think there's much difference in the power draw to be honset....


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 29, 2021)

@trog100 

I currently got my wife working on a script to help me get a 3080 (at closer to canadian MSRP, not scalpers) and I am thinking of taking off the rx 6800xt of mine from mining as it is only getting me about a bit more than my 3070's do.  So I was thinking of trying to get a head start of the altcoin after ETH and so far the only two I keep hearing from miners are Raven and Conflux.  So I was thinking of mining Raven directly.

What do you think?


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 29, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> @trog100
> 
> I currently got my wife working on a script to help me get a 3080 (at closer to canadian MSRP, not scalpers) and I am thinking of taking off the rx 6800xt of mine from mining as it is only getting me about a bit more than my 3070's do.  So I was thinking of trying to get a head start of the altcoin after ETH and so far the only two I keep hearing from miners are Raven and Conflux.  So I was thinking of mining Raven directly.
> 
> What do you think?



its not about what you make now, its what you hoddle and the price doubles in 6 months. that's what trog has told me in the past.

other coins are more risky, there are literally thousands of them, some will rise, some will fall, some will take people for a ride and cash out leaving you in the dry at the last second.

at end of day, you need to ask yourself how much money do you need to be happy. if its a lot, then riskier your coins may have greater reward. if its a medium amount, slow and steady is the name of the game, if its a small amount, convert everything to BTC as BTC is most likely here to stay sadly, even though the tech on it is ancient as far as blockchain tech goes anyway.

if your like the Buddha, then get a robe and a tent, and enjoy the sunrise. some people need very little to be happy.

so you need to decide which category you are.  most people are like trog slow and steady.  or they invest in stock market, and they dont look at it again for 20 years, out of sight out of mind.  

me personally, am in the Seneca (Stoic philosopher) camp. my PC could die tomorrow and I wouldn't even shout or yell, I'd simply go read outside or something. such is the nature of life, always changing.

that being said, it would be nice to own my house I suppose, so I suppose in back of my head I will always regret not hoddling some Bitcoin when it was like $200 a coin. almost bought some back then, eh.

greed destroys all men. be careful how far you swim in those waters. maybe only go waist deep so you can still see the Logos in the sky.


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## sepheronx (Mar 29, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> its not about what you make now, its what you hoddle and the price doubles in 6 months. that's what trog has told me in the past.
> 
> other coins are more risky, there are literally thousands of them, some will rise, some will fall, some will take people for a ride and cash out leaving you in the dry at the last second.
> 
> ...



Its already speculated by the more established miners of what the alternative is.


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 29, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Its already speculated by the more established miners of what the alternative is.



if you say so bud.  ah, I remember the days of Protocoin ever so briefly... hahaha, never heard of Protocoin?  that's a shame.  no one else remembers it either. and those same experts/hype makers said the same thing back then.


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 29, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> if you say so bud.  ah, I remember the days of Protocoin ever so briefly... hahaha, never heard of Protocoin?  that's a shame.  no one else remembers it either. and those same experts/hype makers said the same thing back then.



If you are unaware, you can just search up users like bitsbetrippin on youtube and the like.  But I dont think you are that interested in this topic.


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 29, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Original post deleted.



I tend to trust some people who have a vested interest in it.

I mean, I am pretty sure you signaled the death of bitcoin and you are so far wrong.  So who should I trust?  You or the people still vested into it?

Anyway, there will be alternatives.  ETH was the alternative to BTC.

So it is up to you to what you believe, but I am not really asking you either.  I am asking Trog since he has been mining for a long time.


----------



## toilet pepper (Mar 29, 2021)

toilet pepper said:


> Some people will call it a Flash Sale.



Flash sale is almost over boys.


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 29, 2021)

toilet pepper said:


> Flash sale is almost over boys.



looks like it.  From 68K CAD to 73K CAD in a matter of overnight.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 30, 2021)

bitcoin is now at 59K but it still has to get past that 60K resistance level.. eth is at 1840..

i just installed my first asus strix 3060ti card in my 8 x 1070 rig.. its huge i think they use the same cooler as on their 3090 cards..

its very efficient.. its doing 60 m/sh for 120 watts of power.. more then twice as efficient as the 1070 cards which do 26 m/sh for 125 watts of power..

i have two more coming its a shame the bloody things are costing so much..

trog


----------



## Hardcore Games (Mar 31, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> @trog100
> 
> I currently got my wife working on a script to help me get a 3080 (at closer to canadian MSRP, not scalpers) and I am thinking of taking off the rx 6800xt of mine from mining as it is only getting me about a bit more than my 3070's do.  So I was thinking of trying to get a head start of the altcoin after ETH and so far the only two I keep hearing from miners are Raven and Conflux.  So I was thinking of mining Raven directly.
> 
> What do you think?



I cannot find a RTX 3000 for  MSRP but the few available are 2-3X the price, same for RX 6000 cards.


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 31, 2021)

Hardcore Games said:


> I cannot find a RTX 3000 for  MSRP but the few available are 2-3X the price, same for RX 6000 cards.


thats gotta suck.

I was lucky to find all my cards at MSRP.  I got my wife building me a bot to buy at least 1 3080 at MSRP.


----------



## trog100 (Mar 31, 2021)

Hardcore Games said:


> I cannot find a RTX 3000 for  MSRP but the few available are 2-3X the price, same for RX 6000 cards.


i dont even try looking.. i simply buy at the UK ebay price which currently is around £1000 for a 3060ti and £1900 for a 3080..

i dont see this changing any time soon and cards going up in price not down.. i just bought 4 3060ti cards to replace some of my 1070 cards in my mining rig..

bitcoin is very close to that breakout point of 60K..

etherium has just gone over 1900.. mining eth has just got a little a more profitable..

trog


----------



## Zach_01 (Mar 31, 2021)

trog100 said:


> i dont even try looking.. i simply buy at the UK ebay price which currently is around £1000 for a 3060ti and £1900 for a 3080..
> 
> i dont see this changing any time soon and cards going up in price not down.. i just bought 4 3060ti cards to replace some of my 1070 cards in my mining rig..
> 
> ...


If one is mining and selling instantly yes its more profitable. If someone is playing the long game the current price has little to no significance.


----------



## hat (Mar 31, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> If one is mining and selling instantly yes its more profitable. If someone is playing the long game the current price has little to no significance.


Maybe if you're mining ETH directly, but if you're using Nicehash, if ETH is worth more you get paid more BTC.


----------



## Zach_01 (Mar 31, 2021)

hat said:


> Maybe if you're mining ETH directly, but if you're using Nicehash, if ETH is worth more you get paid more BTC.


If ETH price grows more than BTC's then yes...


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 1, 2021)

iPhone user loses $600,000 after downloading scam Bitcoin app from Apple's store
					

The story began last month when Phillipe Christodoulou wanted to check his Bitcoin balance. He decided to do a search for "Trezor," the company that makes the...




					www.techspot.com
				




too bad he wasn't with an FDIC insured bank


----------



## R-T-B (Apr 1, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I hope Elon figures out Mars, cause I am 100% certain now humans are going to destroy Earth with climate change.


If we can't terraform a dying earth Mars is DoA.



lynx29 said:


> iPhone user loses $600,000 after downloading scam Bitcoin app from Apple's store
> 
> 
> The story began last month when Phillipe Christodoulou wanted to check his Bitcoin balance. He decided to do a search for "Trezor," the company that makes the...
> ...


FDIC wouldn't protect you from giving away your banking password either, which is effectively what he did.  That would be the individual banks domain.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 1, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> If we can't terraform a dying earth Mars is DoA.
> 
> 
> FDIC wouldn't protect you from giving away your banking password either, which is effectively what he did.  That would be the individual banks domain.



yeah but the police etc would take it more seriously in investigation. with bitcoin they probably don't even bother trying.

also, surprised to see this:









						Dollar slides, consolidates recent gains, ahead of U.S. payrolls data
					

The dollar fell on Thursday, consolidating recent gains that pushed it to nearly three-year highs during the first quarter, but the outlook remained upbeat in the wake of improving economic prospects backed by the Biden government's more than $2 trillion stimulus plan.




					www.reuters.com


----------



## R-T-B (Apr 1, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> with bitcoin they probably don't even bother trying.


The law is the same, bitcoin is identical to high value stolen property.  Issue is the obvious technical limitations of tracing it.

Bitcoins anonyminity needs to be viewed as a weakness, not a strength.



lynx29 said:


> also, surprised to see this:


I'm not.  People seem all doom and gloom but the fact is the US never stopped being one of the worlds top economies.  The dollar represents that, and hopefully the shit that hit the fan is lessening.


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Apr 1, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1376554060900302863


> @elonmusk
> Thought I'd be hip and pay my Model Y deposit in #BTC, but my crypto app took longer than Tesla's half hour window to send -- now the BTC seems lost and no one is able to help. Not good for mass adoption.


----------



## R-T-B (Apr 1, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1376554060900302863


BTC can take up to an hour to confirm and this is nothing new...  why in the world does Tesla set it to half that?

Btw, the btc is not "lost."  Tesla has it.  They just need their stupid computers to acknowledge it.


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Apr 1, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> BTC can take up to an hour to confirm and this is nothing new...  why in the world does Tesla set it to half that?
> 
> Btw, the btc is not "lost."  Tesla has it.  They just need their stupid computers to acknowledge it.



You're right on both paragraphs. But to answer your question... Volatility. If you're dealing with large $1000+ transactions, movement of +/- 5% (which BTC is well known to do) could very well be a risk to your business.

It is a severe risk to be holding BTC, as it goes up or down with the whims of the market. BTC's reputation as a get-quick rich scheme turns out to be a terrible thing for those who actually want to use it as a currency. It doesn't matter if the price moves up or down: someone gets screwed in the transaction. For a BTC transaction to be successful: BTC/USD needs to be stable for the transaction duration.


----------



## R-T-B (Apr 1, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> You're right on both paragraphs. But to answer your question... Volatility. If you're dealing with large $1000+ transactions, movement of +/- 5% (which BTC is well known to do) could very well be a risk to your business.
> 
> It is a severe risk to be holding BTC, as it goes up or down with the whims of the market. BTC's reputation as a get-quick rich scheme turns out to be a terrible thing for those who actually want to use it as a currency. It doesn't matter if the price moves up or down: someone gets screwed in the transaction. For a BTC transaction to be successful: BTC/USD needs to be stable for the transaction duration.


Tesla is holding the btc, not exchanging it though.  They made a big point of that.


----------



## Zach_01 (Apr 1, 2021)

And most big players are thinking BTC as a store of value.

On the other hand PayPal that will start crypto transactions probably in 2021 will require from customer to transfer an amount of crypto into PayPal wallet. Then, on the purchase the transaction will be instant. PayPal will just hold the amount in BTC or any other cryptocoin that would be accepted.
Revolut works similar if I’m not mistaken.

So there are some solutions to the transaction delay.


----------



## trog100 (Apr 1, 2021)

musk is accumulating as much  bitcoin as he can.. he is stashing it.. there is no need to use it as a currency.. as yet the dollar does fine..

he can borrow as much day to day dollars as he needs.. the idea is a simple one.. stash the bitcoin and watch it go up in value.. borrow the dollars as and when needed.. he has a limitless supply of dollars..



Zach_01 said:


> And most big players are thinking BTC as a store of value.
> 
> On the other hand PayPal that will start crypto transactions probably in 2021 will require from customer to transfer an amount of crypto into PayPal wallet. Then, on the purchase the transaction will be instant. PayPal will just hold the amount in BTC or any other cryptocoin that would be accepted.
> Revolut works similar if I’m not mistaken.
> ...



that is exactly how paypal started.. i am old enough to remember that.. you had to deposit money into paypal before you could send it to someone else..

trog


----------



## P4-630 (Apr 1, 2021)

_Hut 8 Mining Corp, one of the oldest crypto mining companies has placed a hefty order with Nvidia. The company plans to spend USD 30 million on new GPUs that the company plans to deploy for cryptocurrency mining.

Nvidia's CMP cards are specifically for this application. Nvidia expects to be able to deliver the company's order from May 2021. It is not clear exactly which cards will be delivered. Hut 8 expects the new cards to offer an additional capacity of 1,600 Gigahash._









						Miningbedrijf koopt voor 30 miljoen USD Nvidia CMP-kaarten
					

Hut 8 Mining Corp, een van de oudste bedrijven op het gebied van cryptomining heeft een flinke order geplaatst bij Nvidia. Het bedrijf is van plan 30 mi...




					nl.hardware.info


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 1, 2021)

Saw this


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/gpumining/comments/mgxhnk

So a mining mobo using socket 2011 that bypasses Nvidia's limitation for RTX 3060.


----------



## fma67 (Apr 1, 2021)

Which 3060's this days? LOL
You should kill somebody to get one or break a bank )


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 1, 2021)

fma67 said:


> Which 3060's this days? LOL
> You should kill somebody to get one or break a bank )


Well, yes, it is hard to get one but that isn't the point.  The point is that some creative minds in China were quick at finding a hardware alternative.

I myself would be interested in this board but can't find any listings yet on it as this was seen in Vietnam.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 1, 2021)

trog100 said:


> musk is accumulating as much  bitcoin as he can.. he is stashing it.. there is no need to use it as a currency.. as yet the dollar does fine..
> 
> he can borrow as much day to day dollars as he needs.. the idea is a simple one.. stash the bitcoin and watch it go up in value.. borrow the dollars as and when needed.. he has a limitless supply of dollars..
> 
> ...



Elon is slow to the game. CEO of Twitter been maxing out his allowed Bitcoin transactions from Fiat to BTC for like 5 years now, every week he said on Joe Rogan podcast he maxes out what he is allowed to switch over. lol


----------



## fma67 (Apr 1, 2021)

Big guys contest )


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 1, 2021)

Even BlackRock has made big investments in BTC.


----------



## trog100 (Apr 1, 2021)

i have been watching bitcoin going sideways around 59K.. it has to make a move past that 60K mark soon.. he he

eth is at 1950.. i just bought another ebay asus 3070 card.. if i was swapping things out for cash i could now buy a couple of 3070 cards every month from my mining pay out..

as it is i just have to pay the leccy bill and watch my bitcoin stash accumulate..

how long this will continue i havnt a clue but its nice while it lasts.. 

when the next 3070 arrives i will be looking at 675 m/sh or around 80 dollars a day at current levels..

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 1, 2021)

trog100 said:


> i have been watching bitcoin going sideways around 59K.. it has to make a move past that 60K mark soon.. he he
> 
> eth is at 1950.. i just bought another ebay asus 3070 card.. if i was swapping things out for cash i could now buy a couple of 3070 cards every month from my mining pay out..
> 
> ...



I just hope you are not making mistake of converting it to BTC to early. I feel like ETH will double/triple in value (especially if your using the new fancy tech wallets ETH has that support NFT's) - I would hoddle the ETH, then sell to BTC when its doubled in price almost.

my 6800 just won't make enough money even if it did double. i think maybe i'd get 2 grand total if i mined 20 hours a day for 365 days and that is only if it doubles on top of that and I hoddled the entire time. makes sense for people to farm it like you with multiple gpu's if you have means to do so. for my particular setup though i think its best if i just dont bother sadly.


----------



## trog100 (Apr 1, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I just hope you are not making mistake of converting it to BTC to early. I feel like ETH will double/triple in value (especially if your using the new fancy tech wallets ETH has that support NFT's) - I would hoddle the ETH, then sell to BTC when its doubled in price almost.
> 
> my 6800 just won't make enough money even if it did double. i think maybe i'd get 2 grand total if i mined 20 hours a day for 365 days and that is only if it doubles on top of that and I hoddled the entire time. makes sense for people to farm it like you with multiple gpu's if you have means to do so. for my particular setup though i think its best if i just dont bother sadly.



since i regained interest in crypto about three months back i have spent about £8000 on hardware to mine with.. i am lazy i just use nicehash which as you know mines in eth and then converts to bitcoin..

i am lucky i can afford to buy the hardware at current prices.. the bottom line being you have to have the hardware before you can make use of it.. 

i do like eth going up.. it buys more bitcoin.. 

trog


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 1, 2021)

trog100 said:


> since i regained interest in crypto about three months back i have spent about £8000 on hardware to mine with.. i am lazy i just use nicehash which as you know mines in eth and then converts to bitcoin..
> 
> i am lucky i can afford to buy the hardware at current prices.. the bottom line being you have to have the hardware before you can make use of it..
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'm at $30 cad a day with 3 RTX 3070's and a Rx 6800xt.  I got the RX mostly to game but I'm letting it earn for me as well when I'm not.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 1, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Yeah, I'm at $30 cad a day with 3 RTX 3070's and a Rx 6800xt.  I got the RX mostly to game but I'm letting it earn for me as well when I'm not.



what do you use? phoenixminer or nice hash? or something else?


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 1, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> what do you use? phoenixminer or nice hash? or something else?


Nicehash.

Still working on a bot to buy me 1 3080 (only way to buy one to bypass other bots) and will add it to nicehash. I'll be taking my 6800xt off and mine something like Ravencoin or Conflux to diversify.

If you do plan to use nicehash, word of advice (for anyone), make sure you have coinbase and directly withdraw to it at least every month at latest. Otherwise it's a pain in the rear to get your BTC from them.  I then move it to shakepay (as I'm Canadian) to sell. But I'm holding now my BTC waiting for it to increase.


----------



## trog100 (Apr 9, 2021)

well.. bitcoin still seems stuck at 59 K and eth is at 2100..

i have sold all my 8 x 1070 cards and replaced them with a mix of 3070 and 3060ti cards plus one 3080 card.. my rig now has 7 cards instead of 8.. i have left an open slot in front of the 3080 card to help keep it cooler..

together with my two desktop machines i am now producing 730 m/sh.. i am using nicehash and simply letting my bitcoin stash build up..

until bitcoin starts to move up again its all got a bit boring.. he he

trog


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Apr 9, 2021)

trog100 said:


> until bitcoin starts to move up again its all got an bit boring.. he he


730 m/sh is pretty nice! Exciting can also just be doing nothing and getting paid for it.


----------



## moproblems99 (Apr 9, 2021)

trog100 said:


> i am in the UK.. in the US the stimulus checks are needed by some but a free cash handouts to others.. those that need it are struggling like the poor always do but to others its just extra cash to spend..



Hey, don't take away my $1400 stimulus that I paid $6237.49 for once my taxes go up to pay for it.


----------



## R-T-B (Apr 9, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Saw this
> 
> 
> __
> ...


Only the pcie slot detection.  They'll still need hdmi dummy plugs.  It drives up cost which makes 3060 less appealing at least.


----------



## trog100 (Apr 10, 2021)

well bitcoin has finally done it.. its now past 61K and eth is at or near 2200.. 

we will see what happens next.. 

trog


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Apr 12, 2021)

XRP at 1.40. Wow. Purchased around $.20 nearly 1 year ago. Nice return.


----------



## trog100 (Apr 12, 2021)

i keep having depressing thoughts.. three years back when the dollar return on my mining machine got low i switched it off... now if i had left it running during the slump period.. the coin mined over those thee years would now be worth maybe 100K... a loss of over 30K per year.. ouch..

trog


----------



## boulard83 (Apr 12, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> XRP at 1.40. Wow. Purchased around $.20 nearly 1 year ago. Nice return.


I'm sorry but you are looking at the wrong metric and in fact "lost money".

~1y ago XRP was at ~2700sat, right now XRP is at ~2300sat. So lets say you bought 1000 XRP, that's ~0.027 BTC, those XRP are today worth ~0.023 BTC. You should have hodl BTC ...


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 12, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> XRP at 1.40. Wow. Purchased around $.20 nearly 1 year ago. Nice return.



I remember when XRP hit like $3 briefly... those were wild times, I regret not investing in a diverse portfolio... even a $200 investment when it was 9 cents to now would have been a nice profit.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Apr 12, 2021)

boulard83 said:


> I'm sorry but you are looking at the wrong metric and in fact "lost money".
> 
> ~1y ago XRP was at ~2700sat, right now XRP is at ~2300sat. So lets say you bought 1000 XRP, that's ~0.027 BTC, those XRP are today worth ~0.023 BTC. You should have hodl BTC ...



LOL. I did HODL all my BTC, ETH and every other altcoin I purchased. I have a diverse portfolio with BTC #1 by far. But I couldn't see the future so spread it out. I never thought BTC would hit 60k and figured who knows which alt coin might be the new BTC in the future. I have been in crypto since about 2008'ish. I mined my first BTC on a crappy old laptop(at the time it was still crap) when the complexity was nothing compared to today.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 13, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> LOL. I did HODL all my BTC, ETH and every other altcoin I purchased. I have a diverse portfolio with BTC #1 by far. But I couldn't see the future so spread it out. I never thought BTC would hit 60k and figured who knows which alt coin might be the new BTC in the future. I have been in crypto since about 2008'ish. I mined my first BTC on a crappy old laptop(at the time it was still crap) when the complexity was nothing compared to today.



try to ask yourself how much money do you really need to be happy in life. if you can cash out say 40% now and still keep your 60% invested, and use that 40% to buy say a small house/car in cash in full, I'd say do that now - as that is something you can't lose to inflation or a coin crashing. if you can't, then gauge where that line is for you - there is a basic level of financial stability that increases happiness overall tenfold though. like if you can do that 40% thing - and only have to work a part time job the rest of your life, that wouldn't be such a bad existence.

plus you have the other 60% to hodl to the moon if you ever want to devour luxuries someday. main thing is cash out when you reach that basic level though.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Apr 13, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> try to ask yourself how much money do you really need to be happy in life. if you can cash out say 40% now and still keep your 60% invested, and use that 40% to buy say a small house/car in cash in full, I'd say do that now - as that is something you can't lose to inflation or a coin crashing. if you can't, then gauge where that line is for you - there is a basic level of financial stability that increases happiness overall tenfold though. like if you can do that 40% thing - and only have to work a part time job the rest of your life, that wouldn't be such a bad existence.
> 
> plus you have the other 60% to hodl to the moon if you ever want to devour luxuries someday. main thing is cash out when you reach that basic level though.



Let me tell you the otherside of that coin. I did spend BTC, about 5 of them. For a healthy down payment on a new car, a nice car  5BTC @ 10k each. Now I totally regret that. While the car was nice, it was not 300k nice. Plus I had to pay taxes on that "realized" gain. Never AGAIN...or until I am ready to retire.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 13, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Let me tell you the otherside of that coin. I did spend BTC, about 5 of them. For a healthy down payment on a new car, a nice car  5BTC @ 10k each. Now I totally regret that. While the car was nice, it was not 300k nice. Plus I had to pay taxes on that "realized" gain. Never AGAIN...or until I am ready to retire.



Understandable, you still are missing my point though, as you bought a 50k car it sounds like, and that is not in line with what I was getting at all anyway. It's cool though g, you do you.


----------



## moproblems99 (Apr 13, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Understandable, you still are missing my point though, as you bought a 50k car it sounds like, and that is not in line with what I was getting at all anyway. It's cool though g, you do you.


I think you missed his point.  Clearly, he needs moar money.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 13, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> I think you missed his point.  Clearly, he needs moar money.



ye.


----------



## trog100 (Apr 13, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Let me tell you the otherside of that coin. I did spend BTC, about 5 of them. For a healthy down payment on a new car, a nice car  5BTC @ 10k each. Now I totally regret that. While the car was nice, it was not 300k nice. Plus I had to pay taxes on that "realized" gain. Never AGAIN...or until I am ready to retire.



yes bitcoin is far too valuable to waste buying  things with.. he he..

trog


----------



## Caring1 (Apr 13, 2021)

Hold on to those Bitcoins.








						Bullish On Bitcoin, Bloomberg Predicts $400,000 Price By 2022
					

Bloomberg, the Manhattan-based titan of media and financial services, published a report this month claiming that bitcoin’s price will spike sharply by the end of the year.




					www.nasdaq.com


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 13, 2021)

Caring1 said:


> Hold on to those Bitcoins.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I used to believe it not possible, but with the way world governments keep spending money regardless of political affiliation and never paying it back... yeah the illusion can't last forever. When the treasury secretary of USA said he was ok with inflation, my jaw kind of dropped... I feel really bad for disabled fixed income people right now. America has truly become the every man for himself state of being.


----------



## R0H1T (Apr 13, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> America has truly become the every man for himself state of being.


Well that really applies to most nations on earth, if not every single one of them!


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 13, 2021)

R0H1T said:


> Well that really applies to most nations on earth, if not every single one of them!



I lived in Finland for several months, it does not apply there. I loved it there too, was very lovely place. Lowest crime rate in the world.


----------



## trog100 (Apr 13, 2021)

bitcoin just hit 63K with eth at 2240... two new all time highs i think..

trog


----------



## 64K (Apr 13, 2021)

trog100 said:


> bitcoin just hit 63K with eth at 2240... two new all time highs i think..
> 
> trog



Yes, they are both still going up. Some are saying that there will be a crypto-currency crash this year but it certainly doesn't look like it.


----------



## R0H1T (Apr 13, 2021)

There's a good chance that there'll be a stock market crash as well, haven't seen a major one like 2008 in quite a while!


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Apr 13, 2021)

Student Loan Crash, Auto Loan Crash, Housing Crash, Stock Market Crash, Crypto-Crash - There are so many "crashes" coming.

Oh don't forgot for those that trade Stock. Coinbase IPO April 14th!!


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 13, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Student Loan Crash, Auto Loan Crash, Housing Crash, Stock Market Crash, Crypto-Crash - There are so many "crashes" coming.
> 
> Oh don't forgot for those that trade Stock. *Coinbase IPO April 14th*!!



Ill check this out.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 13, 2021)

yes humans super excited for the new IPO and short term riches, as usual.  I do feel bad for future humans, there is no stopping the machine now. at least I get to live in a relatively peaceful time I suppose. I do not envy the mass famines due to climate change incoming though.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Apr 13, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> yes humans super excited for the new IPO and short term riches, as usual.  I do feel bad for future humans, there is no stopping the machine now. at least I get to live in a relatively peaceful time I suppose. I do not envy the mass famines due to climate change incoming though.


What does that even mean? Are you just being a Debbie Downer?


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 13, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> What does that even mean? Are you just being a Debbie Downer?
> 
> View attachment 196581



a  realist, unfortunately i minored in economics and I can see there is no stopping the mining machine now. you may not believe in man made climate change, but I assure you when the grocery stores are empty in 15-20 years you will remember these messages.


----------



## R-T-B (Apr 13, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> a  realist, unfortunately i minored in economics and I can see there is no stopping the mining machine now. you may not believe in man made climate change, but I assure you when the grocery stores are empty in 15-20 years you will remember these messages.


You aren't wrong but I see the famines as inevitable at this point and mining as like a drop in a bucket that's already overflowing, sadly.

As much as everyone should be talking about it, it's OT for here.


----------



## trog100 (Apr 14, 2021)

bitcoin is now at 65K with eth at 2400..  

things look to be moving nicely.. 

trog


----------



## hat (Apr 14, 2021)

Difficulty seems to be increasing faster than the prices are. Lots of people getting in the game it seems...


----------



## 64K (Apr 14, 2021)

hat said:


> Difficulty seems to be increasing faster than the prices are. Lots of people getting in the game it seems...



That's something I've wondered about.  Why was this set up to be harder and harder to mine new crypto? I think it just promotes miners to fall out of mining eventually unless the value keeps going up.


----------



## trog100 (Apr 14, 2021)

hat said:


> Difficulty seems to be increasing faster than the prices are. Lots of people getting in the game it seems...



yes rewards have dropped off and i think the total hash rate has nearly double over the last month.. a lot more mining is going on.. 

having said that prices also stagnated over this same time period.. the eth price needs to rise a fair bit to bring the rewards back up.. i think it will do this though..

trog


----------



## trog100 (Apr 18, 2021)

interesting times.. we are seeing a crypto flash crash.. what happens next.. ??

bitcoin now at 55K and eth at 2100-ish..

i think its whales playing whale games and highly leveraged traders.. the highly leveraged traders got liquidated.. ouch..

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 18, 2021)

trog100 said:


> yes rewards have dropped off and i think the total hash rate has nearly double over the last month.. a lot more mining is going on..
> 
> having said that prices also stagnated over this same time period.. the eth price needs to rise a fair bit to bring the rewards back up.. i think it will do this though..
> 
> trog



eth growth is dependent upon NFT growth, which appears to be just a fad after all so far.


----------



## Final_Fighter (Apr 18, 2021)

trog100 said:


> interesting times.. we are seeing a crypto flash crash.. what happens next.. ??
> 
> bitcoin now at 55K and eth at 2100-ish..
> 
> ...


its a cycle. im going to wait a while tho before i pick up more coins tho. it may go down a few more % but there are to many big players in now for a crash. folks taking profits.

on a side note: i personally believe that eth will go the way of eth classic with bsc in the game. just something for people who are mining eth need to watch out for. bsc is just to darn similar to eth that you can even migrate your wallets over and keep the same address using metamask. of course you dont have your erc assets on the bsc but i think eths days are growing short if they dont deal with gas fees.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 18, 2021)

Final_Fighter said:


> its a cycle. im going to wait a while tho before i pick up more coins tho. it may go down a few more % but there are to many big players in now for a crash. folks taking profits.
> 
> on a side note: i personally believe that eth will go the way of eth classic with bsc in the game. just something for people who are mining eth need to watch out for. bsc is just to darn similar to eth that you can even migrate your wallets over and keep the same address using metamask. of course you dont have your erc assets on the bsc but i think eths days are growing short if they dont deal with gas fees.



its not a cycle at all, its unregulated market manipulation by whales to get rich quick. and it will never end. so well, yes actually you are correct it is a cycle LOL


----------



## trog100 (Apr 18, 2021)

the whales know exactly when to strike.. just when everyone is expecting bitcoin to go back up they trigger a sell.. in this case they would have a buy option at say 51K...

the too greedy traders get whacked and the weak hearted sell.. the whales gain.. long term the whales want and expect the price to go up they just play games along the way..

their aim is to acquire more bitcoin while its still available..

trog


----------



## Tomgang (Apr 18, 2021)

Crypto has dropped a lot this week. From topping at 65k and down to 54K what I see right now.

Lovely. I like that. Let it crash and fall down to the button. When it might help on the gpu a viability and pricing. But I'm not sure. It has been seen before that dropping a lot and then the go sky high again.

Come on crypto, crash all ready. I need gpu's for gaming and workstation use for some Cuda core acceleration.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 18, 2021)

Tomgang said:


> Crypto has dropped a lot this week. From topping at 65k and down to 54K what I see right now.
> 
> Lovely. I like that. Let it crash and fall down to the button. When it might help on the gpu a viability and pricing. But I'm not sure. It has been seen before that dropping a lot and then the go sky high again.
> 
> Come on crypto, crash all ready. I need gpu's for gaming and workstation use for some Cuda core acceleration.



its crashed a bunch of times this year. it always bounces back, because as I said before its the whales doing unregulated exploitation of the Common Person. and there is no way to stop it since Bitcoin is not bound by any nation state. its sad imo.


----------



## Tomgang (Apr 18, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> its crashed a bunch of times this year. it always bounces back, because as I said before its the whales doing unregulated exploitation of the Common Person. and there is no way to stop it since Bitcoin is not bound by any nation state. its sad imo.


Yeah its a problem it's not regulated as other currencies. It can drop and go as it sees fit.

I am not a fan of crypto. In fact I hate it. Because of many things. Gpu shortage and pricing is just one of the things. There is also how much it pollutes. It actually a significant amount of the world all pollution. If I have read correct. It stand for about 0,5 to 1 % of the entire world pollution. It maybe dosent sound of much. But this is out of the entire world pollution from everywhere in the world


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 18, 2021)

Whether you look at the 24hr or 7day chart, pretty much everything is tanking;








						Coinranking | Cryptocurrency Price List - Top 50 Coins Today
					

View the list with all cryptocurrency prices of today. View live values of Bitcoin, Ethereum and thousands more.




					coinranking.com
				




I'm with Tom, crash sucka's crash!


----------



## Outback Bronze (Apr 18, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> its crashed a bunch of times this year



Hmm not sure when exactly your talking about. Everybody is saying its crashing but wtf look at the price. Its still way above anything remotely that looks like its crashed no? 

Ride the wave Gentlemen.


----------



## freeagent (Apr 18, 2021)

1 trillion dollar cap.. wow. Serious business. 

If the market happens to flood with mining GPU's.. I don't even think I would buy one. I would rather spend more for the same thing that doesn't have taint on it.


----------



## Tomgang (Apr 18, 2021)

freeagent said:


> 1 trillion dollar cap.. wow. Serious business.
> 
> If the market happens to flood with mining GPU's.. I don't even think I would buy one. I would rather spend more for the same thing that doesn't have taint on it.


Same here. I just bought a new gtx 1050 ti and not a used one to be sure not to get a used mining card. New price at that store was resanable, but not great for such an old card gtx 1050 ti is. But at least there is full warranty and not used for mining.

And I can rest assured I have not gotten and old mining card that has been running for hours on hours or payed over price for a used card with out any warranty.

What I really am after is gtx 3060 TI and rtx 3080 maybe TI model.


----------



## trog100 (Apr 18, 2021)

coiners and no coiners.. he he he

trog


----------



## freeagent (Apr 18, 2021)

I wanted that Asus Strix 3070Ti.. maybe better luck with a 40 series! 



trog100 said:


> coiners and no coiners.. he he he
> 
> trog


Your words will bite you one day.


----------



## Tomgang (Apr 18, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I wanted that Asus Strix 3070Ti.. maybe better luck with a 40 series!
> 
> 
> Your words will bite you one day.


We can hope 4000 series will be better available and pricing not sky rocketing.

For now I have to settle for my old gtx 1060 6 GB and that new gtx 1050 ti for my new biild until gpu marked has recovered from this stupidity.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 18, 2021)

Tomgang said:


> We can hope 4000 series will be better available and pricing not sky rocketing.
> 
> For now I have to settle for my old gtx 1060 6 GB and that new gtx 1050 ti for my new biild until gpu marked has recovered from this stupidity.



a bit off-topic, but to be fair there are a lot of great indie games that older gpu's can run just fine. if it wasn't for those top tier indie games in last few years - like slay the spire, dead cells (to many games to list honestly), my love for gaming would have died a long time ago. so there is lot of great stuff to play out there in the mean time. don't get me wrong, I am thankful I got a 6800 and 5600x on launch day, but at end of day - life is what you make of it. /shrug

that's my last off topic for the day mods, I am bowing out now... have to get to work.


----------



## Tomgang (Apr 18, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> a bit off-topic, but to be fair there are a lot of great indie games that older gpu's can run just fine. if it wasn't for those top tier indie games in last few years - like slay the spire, dead cells (to many games to list honestly), my love for gaming would have died a long time ago. so there is lot of great stuff to play out there in the mean time. don't get me wrong, I am thankful I got a 6800 and 5600x on launch day, but at end of day - life is what you make of it. /shrug
> 
> that's my last off topic for the day mods, I am bowing out now... have to get to work.


Some games are not so demanding, but there are games that are demanding and I like to crank details in games to 11 and still getting high fps. My old gtx 1080 TI was beginning showing signs of weakness. So gtx 1060 6 GB is insufficient for my needs. I also just got my hands on a Ryzen 5 5600X and a Ryzen 9 5950X as well to feed my new 1440P 144 Hz monitor with high fps, but gtx 1060 is not up to that task. More gpu power needed. Period.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 18, 2021)

Tomgang said:


> Some games are not so demanding, but there are games that are demanding and I like to crank details in games to 11 and still getting high fps. My old gtx 1080 TI was beginning showing signs of weakness. So gtx 1060 6 GB is insufficient for my needs. I also just got my hands on a Ryzen 5 5600X and a Ryzen 9 5950X as well to feed my new 1440P 144 Hz monitor with high fps, but gtx 1060 is not up to that task. More gpu power needed. Period.



why did you get rid of your 1080 ti and get a 1060?


----------



## Tomgang (Apr 18, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> why did you get rid of your 1080 ti and get a 1060?


I sold it in August last year with the  expectation of value would go down after ampere launched in September. And got a gtx 1060 for temporary use until rtx 3000 launched and pricing had settled down. 

But as we all know, that's not what happened. Prices sky rocketing and aviability are still a farce here half a year later. So I'm stuck on that 1060, but not on my own free will. Had everything been normal, I had a rtx 3000 card now.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 18, 2021)

Tomgang said:


> I sold it in August last year with the  expectation of value would go down after ampere launched in September. And got a gtx 1060 for temporary use until rtx 3000 launched and pricing had settled down.
> 
> But as we all know, that's not what happened. Prices sky rocketing and aviability are still a farce here half a year later. So I'm stuck on that 1060, but not on my own free will. Had everything been normal, I had a rtx 3000 card now.



yep and with TSMC announcing two days ago they may not be able to catch up with demand until 2023, you are in a pickle mate. that is for sure.

hopefully you get lucky soon. if nothing else, try the Newegg Golden Ticket Shuffle, LinusTechTips gamer gpu program they have where you have to verify your a gamer to buy it from them, and EVGA que the line with your email. best of luck to you


----------



## Tomgang (Apr 18, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> yep and with TSMC announcing two days ago they may not be able to catch up with demand until 2023, you are in a pickle mate. that is for sure.
> 
> hopefully you get lucky soon. if nothing else, try the Newegg Golden Ticket Shuffle, LinusTechTips gamer gpu program they have where you have to verify your a gamer to buy it from them, and EVGA que the line with your email. best of luck to you


Thanks. But none of the above is an option for me. I'm not from USA, I'm from Denmark in Europe.

But I have been lucky to get both a 5600X to a good price and a 5950X to MSRP and these two cpu are also hard to get. So I might have some luck left for a rtx 3000 gpu, if I cut just get one. That would keep me going until the market is better. All throw i need two gpu's. But not rtx support for both systems.


----------



## phill (Apr 19, 2021)

trog100 said:


> bitcoin is now at 65K with eth at 2400..
> 
> things look to be moving nicely..
> 
> trog


Would have been a good time to sell up there I think @trog100 !!   Then you could have bought back at 51k....  Would have given you a few extra $$$ to play with!


----------



## trog100 (Apr 19, 2021)

phill said:


> Would have been a good time to sell up there I think @trog100 !!   Then you could have bought back at 51k....  Would have given you a few extra $$$ to play with!



crystal balls are a handy thing to have phill.. he he.. 

i just mine on nice hash and hodl what i have.. i intend to ride though the ups and downs.. its simpler that way..

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 19, 2021)

trog100 said:


> crystal balls are a handy thing to have phill.. he he..
> 
> i just mine on nice hash and hodl what i have.. i intend to ride though the ups and downs.. its simpler that way..
> 
> trog



if I participated at all in this crap, I would agree with Trog on this one. Mine, hodl, ride it.

that being said, Trog is making a classic stock market mistake, in that he still invests a lot of his free time posting on this thread and probably following the crypto world a lot - time is limited - therefore the most valuable of all currencies, so logic dictates, if Trog says to Trog's self - mine, hodl, ride it. - then do so, and simply disconnect from all of it in the mean time and go enjoy yourself with entertainment, enjoying nature, hiking, focusing on health, etc etc.  lot of stock market types makes this mistake as well, they buy for long term retirement, but can't resist the urge to check how it's doing every week, when in fact it doesn't matter how its doing, if its 2008 economic crash as long as it doesn't go out of business, you still have no need to ever look, because - if A) it won't stay low forever, as humans have routines and patterns they do daily to live, humans always bounce back and so does the stock market in turn in a weird symbiotic way B) just because it want from 50 a share to 2 a share due to some disaster or other, that's still only short term, and if you truly made decision to hold on long term - then you simply don't let such anxiety ever even take a single ounce of the most precious currency of your life, aka time.


----------



## trog100 (Apr 19, 2021)

when i was younger a long time ago lynx i decided that the thing i wanted to buy the most was free time.. basically the freedom from having to spend a large part of my life working.. 

now i am fully retired and dont have to work.. i enjoy posting on this forum and find keeping up with crypto scene interesting.. i dont consider it a waste.. i enjoy doing it.. 

i have just bought a new e-bike.. i am too old for hiking.. he he

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 19, 2021)

trog100 said:


> when i was younger a long time ago lynx i decided that the thing i wanted to buy the most was free time.. basically the freedom from having to spend a large part of my life working..
> 
> now i am fully retired and dont have to work.. i enjoy posting on this forum and find keeping up with crypto scene interesting.. i dont consider it a waste.. i enjoy doing it..
> 
> ...



Makes sense, and that is what I want to hear! e-bike, that sounds like a lot of fun mate, I hope you enjoy that. I am actually considering buying one soon myself.


----------



## xkm1948 (Apr 19, 2021)

It only crash if one is fixated on USD vs BTC.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 19, 2021)

xkm1948 said:


> It only crash if one is fixated on USD vs BTC.



that's the only way it works though, if i go to store and they offer you to pay with btc or usd, they are inherently tied together no matter what, because otherwise bitcoins value would be to hard to calibrate.


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 20, 2021)

Still dropping. But my profits per day are up. So while I lost about $100 worth in BTC, my potential is jumping.  Eventually, when it does go back up, what I have earned in this short period will be a lot.

I'm OK as I'm in it for long haul. And these dips happen.


----------



## hat (Apr 20, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Still dropping. But my profits per day are up. So while I lost about $100 worth in BTC, my potential is jumping.  Eventually, when it does go back up, what I have earned in this short period will be a lot.
> 
> I'm OK as I'm in it for long haul. And these dips happen.


ETH is probably continuing to increase as BTC goes down, then.


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 20, 2021)

hat said:


> ETH is probably continuing to increase as BTC goes down, then.


Yeah, I'm thinking that.
I'm happy though.


----------



## trog100 (Apr 20, 2021)

hat said:


> ETH is probably continuing to increase as BTC goes down, then.



its not though.. eth has gone down at the same rate as bitoin.. my rewards are well up i would have thought they should have dropped.. but they havnt they have gone up..

the only explanation i can think of is less people are currently mining eth.. i have been watching the nicehash 4 hourly payouts.. mine have been up by around 25% maybe a tad more..

trog


----------



## mav2000 (Apr 20, 2021)

trog100 said:


> its not though.. eth has gone down at the same rate as bitoin.. my rewards are well up i would have thought they should have dropped.. but they havnt they have gone up..
> 
> the only explanation i can think of is less people are currently mining eth.. i have been watching the nicehash 4 hourly payouts.. mine have been up by around 25%..
> 
> trog



25% is a lot. I doubt you can attribute that to people not mining.


----------



## trog100 (Apr 20, 2021)

mav2000 said:


> 25% is a lot. I doubt you can attribute that to people not mining.



it dosnt make any sense to me.. but i am sure of what i am seeing..  my nicehash rewards are up and the bitcoin and eth prices seem to have dropped at the same rate..

trog


----------



## R0H1T (Apr 20, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> RIP any decency among humanity.


That's so pre (human) civilization, I doubt anyone remembers anything but a constant erosion of the term over the years!


----------



## kayjay010101 (Apr 20, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> dogecoin is now accepted by newegg as payment. RIP any decency among humanity.


All the raping, enslaving and warmongering going on in the world is apparently irrelevant, it's an etailer accepting a memecoin that has made you give up on humanity


----------



## R0H1T (Apr 20, 2021)

kayjay010101 said:


> All the raping, enslaving and warmongering going on in the world is apparently irrelevant, it's an etailer accepting a memecoin that has made you give up on humanity


They're not mutually exclusive, are they?


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 20, 2021)

kayjay010101 said:


> All the raping, enslaving and warmongering going on in the world is apparently irrelevant, it's an etailer accepting a memecoin that has made you give up on humanity



Correct. Bitcoin mining uses 3 countries worth of electricity, but all the alt coins/tokens/infrastructure use about 30-50 countries worth of electricity, and once climate change takes hold more you will see more horrible things then you ever thought possible. Mass displacement, mass famine deaths, water wars, and more. Thank you for reminding me about the other terrible crimes that come with crop failure as well.

Just because fiat also uses electricity doesn't change the fact BTC and other coins did not exist until recently in history, exacerbating the problem tenfold. Next time you want to debate, I highly recommend you take a class in economic social theory.


----------



## kayjay010101 (Apr 20, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Correct. Bitcoin mining uses 3 countries worth of electricity, but all the alt coins/tokens/infrastructure use about 30-50 countries worth of electricity, and once climate change takes hold more you will see more horrible things then you ever thought possible. Mass displacement, mass famine deaths, water wars, and more. Thank you for reminding me about the other terrible crimes that come with crop failure as well.
> 
> Just because fiat also uses electricity doesn't change the fact BTC and other coins did not exist until recently in history, exacerbating the problem tenfold. Next time you want to debate, I highly recommend you take a class in economic social theory.


Bitcoin does not use "3 countries worth of electricity", unless those countries are starving african nations. Bitcoin uses an estimated 80-130 TWh anually (depends on who you ask, but that's the common range given by experts such as economist Alex De Vries) which is on par with Argentina on a pure electrical basis. Not on an energy basis, because Argentina uses about 930TWh equivalent in total energy (gas, heating oil, fuel..). And Bitcoin is by far the biggest energy consumer of all coins. If we assume Eth is on the same level of consumption (which it isn't, it's probably quite a bit lower, and will be almost completely removed with Eth 2.0 next year), and then add on all other coins at about a 5x assumption (because genuinely, outside the top 10 or so coins there are practically no farms dedicated to mining them which is where the bulk of electricity is used), then we can assume total crypto energy usage anually is about 7x Bitcoin, or between 560-1040TWh, which is between 1 and 2 Germany's. That's hardly "30-50 countries" worth. There are plenty of other industries, like aviation and cars, which accounts for so, so, so much more energy usage.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 20, 2021)

kayjay010101 said:


> Bitcoin does not use "3 countries worth of electricity", unless those countries are starving african nations.



Incorrect.


----------



## kayjay010101 (Apr 20, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Incorrect.


... Prove me wrong? I actually did research, all I see is you saying stuff with nothing to back it up.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Apr 20, 2021)

Dropping? You mean "On Sale right now"...right?


----------



## trog100 (Apr 20, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Dropping? You mean "On Sale right now"...right?



i aint buying any at the moment just holding what i have and mining some more..

my last two nicehash 4 hourly payouts have been over £17 dollars and its estimating  over $100 dollars per day.. thats over $3000 dollars a month.. 

i expected the payouts to go down but they have gone up.. weird.. but nice..

trog


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Apr 20, 2021)

I picked up more BTC, ETH, LTC, and a few alt coins. EOS and VET.


----------



## phill (Apr 21, 2021)

trog100 said:


> crystal balls are a handy thing to have phill.. he he..
> 
> i just mine on nice hash and hodl what i have.. i intend to ride though the ups and downs.. its simpler that way..
> 
> trog


I think we could all do with that one mate!  

Definitely easier, maybe not so much $$$$ but definitely less stressful


----------



## moproblems99 (Apr 21, 2021)

@trog100 , what are your 3080's doing?  I am thinking about ordering 3.


----------



## xkm1948 (Apr 21, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> @trog100 , what are your 3080's doing?  I am thinking about ordering 3.



I thought you are getting the 6800XT? From your thread?


----------



## R-T-B (Apr 21, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> but all the alt coins/tokens/infrastructure use about 30-50 countries worth of electricity,


I think you are overestimating massively.  I feel like altcoins in worst case match bitcoin.


----------



## trog100 (Apr 21, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> @trog100 , what are your 3080's doing?  I am thinking about ordering 3.



mine are running at 97/96 msh.. i dont like them for mining they can be problematic keeping the memory cool enough.. especially the gigabyte ones..

i am currently running 2 x 3080 cards.. 8 x 3070 cards and 1 x 2080 ti card.. this gives me about 730 m/sh in total.. 

trog


----------



## moproblems99 (Apr 21, 2021)

xkm1948 said:


> I thought you are getting the 6800XT? From your thread?


I am.  To game on.  RTX to mine on.  Or mine with a 6900xt and game on a 3080.  The choices are endless!


----------



## trog100 (Apr 21, 2021)

i am having problems mining and gaming on the same machine.. in theory i should be able to just switch off the nicehash miner and crank up a game..

in practice i cant and i have tried this on two different machines with exactly the same result..

basically anything that requires my card to switch to 3D mode dosnt work without me doing a fresh clean install of the nvidia drivers every time.. the cards/card dosnt switch to 3D mode after running the nicehash miner..

its fine for browsing and video watching  or whatever with the miner running but for the valley benchmark for example it stays in 2d mode at 1 frame per second even without the miner running.. 

it has to be the nicehash mining software doing something to the nvidia drivers.. i havnt fully figured out whats happening yet but something is..

at first i thought i had dud card but its something the mining software is doing to the drivers.. a clean driver install fixes it.. until the mining software is run again then its no 3D mode..

trog


----------



## kayjay010101 (Apr 22, 2021)

trog100 said:


> i am having problems mining and gaming on the same machine.. in theory i should be able to just switch off the nicehash miner and crank up a game..
> 
> in practice i cant and i have tried this on two different machines with exactly the same result..
> 
> ...


That's strange, I have no issues switching from mining on T-rex to playing a game on my 3090. Must be a funky driver or Nicehash is doing something weird.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 22, 2021)

trog100 said:


> i am having problems mining and gaming on the same machine.. in theory i should be able to just switch off the nicehash miner and crank up a game..
> 
> in practice i cant and i have tried this on two different machines with exactly the same result..
> 
> ...



karma  

(just picking on ya haha) I have no idea. weird glitch I guess.


----------



## Final_Fighter (Apr 22, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> I am.  To game on.  RTX to mine on.  Or mine with a 6900xt and game on a 3080.  The choices are endless!


you should look at "staking" your earnings in stable coins and earning interest on them. if you invested in something like aave and left them staked you could earn a decent amount of interest per month. another thing to consider with mining eth right now and why i think bsc is going threw the roof is the cost to mine. countrys are signing agreements to cut pollution and countrys like china, U.S. and EU could get closer to zero emissions by banning crypto. the market would tank but coins on bsc would stay afloat because they dont need mining the way the eth network does. i just dont see us having enough nuclear plants by 2030 to power all this and there is no way windmills will run crypto farming. just thinking out loud. but then again i think most corporations know this stuff will likely fail and thats why walmart and amazon are still building fueling stations around the world and im not talking about "Clean energy charging stations" im talking about gasoline/petroleum. theres one going in next to where my family is living as i type.


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 22, 2021)

Final_Fighter said:


> you should look at "staking" your earnings in stable coins and earning interest on them. if you invested in something like aave and left them staked you could earn a decent amount of interest per month. another thing to consider with mining eth right now and why i think bsc is going threw the roof is the cost to mine. countrys are signing agreements to cut pollution and countrys like china, U.S. and EU could get closer to zero emissions by banning crypto. the market would tank but coins on bsc would stay afloat because they dont need mining the way the eth network does. i just dont see us having enough nuclear plants by 2030 to power all this and there is no way windmills will run crypto farming. just thinking out loud. but then again i think most corporations know this stuff will likely fail and thats why walmart and amazon are still building fueling stations around the world and im not talking about "Clean energy charging stations" im talking about gasoline/petroleum. theres one going in next to where my family is living as i type.


Banning crypto mining hasn't done anything. It was banned in China years ago and the mining craze is continuing.

Believe it or not, governments are making a fair chunk of banking in crypto taxes. Add in that crypto is being used to help trade amongst sanctioned states, it won't go away.

I keep hearing this all the time and it is just ridiculous people believe this notion.

Makes it more ridiculous when major Chinese institutions, institutions in Canada and US are also now involved in crypto mining by investing millions or billions into it gives me indication that everyone has interest in it and it won't go away.


----------



## Final_Fighter (Apr 22, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Banning crypto mining hasn't done anything. It was banned in China years ago and the mining craze is continuing.
> 
> Believe it or not, governments are making a fair chunk of banking in crypto taxes. Add in that crypto is being used to help trade amongst sanctioned states, it won't go away.
> 
> ...


i should clearify. i dont think crypto is going away. if i did i would have not suggested staking in a crypto platform. what i was meaning by what i said above is that governments will probably ban crypto to get rid of miners. the crypto itself wont go away but will evolve onto other more lean running platforms such as bsc. i share the same view as you on crypto btw.


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 22, 2021)

Final_Fighter said:


> i should clearify. i dont think crypto is going away. if i did i would have not suggested staking in a crypto platform. what i was meaning by what i said above is that governments will probably ban crypto to get rid of miners. the crypto itself wont go away but will evolve onto other more lean running platforms such as bsc. i share the same view as you on crypto btw.


Fair enough.

But it won't get banned simply because many institutions now invest in mining as well.  Once the big players get involved, they "legitimize" it in a sense.


----------



## trog100 (Apr 22, 2021)

kayjay010101 said:


> That's strange, I have no issues switching from mining on T-rex to playing a game on my 3090. Must be a funky driver or Nicehash is doing something weird.



just to take this one a little further i just tried another little test.. running furmark at 1080 while the nicehash miner is still running.. my expected result was a very slow furmark and a very low hashrate.. the actual result was two fps in furmark and the miners hashrate carried on as normal.. the card trying to run furmak stayed in 2D mone..

quite clearly the hicehash software stops the mining card from running any 3D operation from running while it is running to do this it must alter the nvidia drivers needing a clean nvidia driver install to get anything 3D working again.. a normal install dosnt change anything it has to be a clean install..

i think its connected with the new nicehash quick miner..

trog

ps.. the quick miner insists on a new driver install the first time you run it.. it does this even though the latest nvidia drivers are all ready installed.. i think the quick miner actually borks the nvidia driver while its being installed .. all a bit dodgy if you ask me..


----------



## fullinfusion (Apr 22, 2021)

trog100 said:


> just to take this one a little further i just tried another little test.. running furmark at 1080 while the nicehash miner is still running.. my expected result was a very slow furmark and a very low hashrate.. the actual result was two fps in furmark and the miners hashrate carried on as normal.. the card trying to run furmak stayed in 2D mone..
> 
> quite clearly the hicehash software stops the mining card from running any 3D operation from running while it is running to do this it must alter the nvidia drivers needing a clean nvidia driver install to get anything 3D working again.. a normal install dosnt change anything it has to be a clean install..
> 
> ...


I think the new version has an OC or optimization going on and probably should give it try for the hell of it. I know My radeon card wont use the lastest software that your talking about.


----------



## trog100 (Apr 22, 2021)

i dont use the OC option.. i set my own levels.. i may try going back to the old software just to see if that borks the 3D option.. i dont think it does..

trog


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 22, 2021)

on my main gaming rig I dont bother with quickminer.  I just use basic mining application so that when I game, I simply hit the pause button on the application which closes the mining, run default or my gaming profile (in AMD for my 6800xt.  If it is Nvidia, it was using the MSI afterburner) and then game.  When done gaming, load the mining profile and just let it run again.

The game mode in quick miner didn't work for me so I just left it alone.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Apr 22, 2021)

ETH new ATH! 2600!!!!!


----------



## Liquid Cool (Apr 22, 2021)

Back when I instructed people in the use of Technical Analysis.  One of the first things I would teach is to look for the signature in an issue of interest.  All stocks have a signature.  No two are alike.

I'll just leave this here.




Best Regards,

Liquid Cool


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 22, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> ETH new ATH! 2600!!!!!



when it goes up in price like this it means its harder to mine right? so if i were to start mining now, instead of like making 6 bucks a day like two weeks ago, now its down like 4 bucks a day? or would i make more if i started up nicehash now?



Liquid Cool said:


> Back when I instructed people in the use of Technical Analysis.  One of the first things I would teach is to look for the signature in an issue of interest.  All stocks have a signature.  No two are alike.
> 
> I'll just leave this here.
> 
> ...



It's different this time. The context is different, it's widely accepted now, and Fiat governments are so desperate for extra tax revenue they will never kill it off now. I'm still amazed how many world government's haven't legalized marijuana and taxed it to pay off debts or something useful. Amazing how much revenue they have lost over the decades.


----------



## trog100 (Apr 22, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> when it goes up in price like this it means its harder to mine right? so if i were to start mining now, instead of like making 6 bucks a day like two weeks ago, now its down like 4 bucks a day? or would i make more if i started up nicehash now?
> 
> 
> 
> It's different this time. The context is different, it's widely accepted now, and Fiat governments are so desperate for extra tax revenue they will never kill it off now. I'm still amazed how many world government's haven't legalized marijuana and taxed it to pay off debts or something useful. Amazing how much revenue they have lost over the decades.


 
modern monetary theory goes along the lines of if you need more money just print it.  which is basically what current government are doing now.. they call it debt but it isnt really its just more new money created out of thin air.. the problem is once turned on the money machines cant be turned off..

this begs a simple question.. why tax people when all you have to do is print more money.. tax isnt used to pay for things like you think it is.. its simple a tool to decide what money goes where or who get what.. its an income re-distribution tool nothing else.. 

does modern monetary theory work.. yes until it dosnt.. what happens then nobody knows but the common consensus is.. it wont be good.. 

trog


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Apr 22, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> when it goes up in price like this it means its harder to mine right? so if i were to start mining now, instead of like making 6 bucks a day like two weeks ago, now its down like 4 bucks a day? or would i make more if i started up nicehash now?
> 
> 
> 
> It's different this time. The context is different, it's widely accepted now, and Fiat governments are so desperate for extra tax revenue they will never kill it off now. I'm still amazed how many world government's haven't legalized marijuana and taxed it to pay off debts or something useful. Amazing how much revenue they have lost over the decades.



You should make more mining as the value increases. Plus the more value it has the more block-chain transactions take place which you also get paid for.


----------



## Zach_01 (Apr 23, 2021)

Mining difficulty is determined by total hash rate. The more people in it the more the difficulty increases. And a lot of people are in and out of mining driven from price (wrong IMO). Mining profits are determined by price, by how many people are in mining(diff), by number of total transactions and by transaction fee rates/price (GAS=Gwei for ETH, for example).


----------



## trog100 (Apr 23, 2021)

there will be big panic in the crypto markets today.. he he..  

i see bitcoin at 48K.. somewhere it should definitely not be.. 

trog


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 23, 2021)

trog100 said:


> there will be big panic in the crypto markets today.. he he..
> 
> i see bitcoin at 48K.. somewhere it should definitely not be..
> 
> trog


So what you make of it?  If it gets that low, you expect a major jump afterwards or what?


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 23, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> So what you make of it?  If it gets that low, you expect a major jump afterwards or what?



depends where the wallet dumps came from, if it was China again, then its just another pump and dump temp pyramid scheme.


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 23, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> depends where the wallet dumps came from, if it was China again, then its just another pump and dump temp pyramid scheme.


Rumors are everywhere from going after people to pay their coin taxes to a Turkish coin market going bust.

This was well predicted though:

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/l90yby


----------



## 64K (Apr 23, 2021)

trog100 said:


> there will be big panic in the crypto markets today.. he he..
> 
> i see bitcoin at 48K.. somewhere it should definitely not be..
> 
> trog



It's like that in most markets. Most buyers buy when the price is already too high. Warren Buffett had this to say about investing:

_"We simply attempt to be fearful when others are greedy and to be greedy only when others are fearful."_


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 23, 2021)

64K said:


> It's like that in most markets. Most buyers buy when the price is already too high. Warren Buffett had this to say about investing:
> 
> _"We simply attempt to be fearful when others are greedy and to be greedy only when others are fearful."_



Warren Buffet underestimated the idiots of the world though, DOGECOIN TO THE MOON BOIS!!! 

lulz


----------



## trog100 (Apr 23, 2021)

the big fear will be.. has the market reached a top and will it be downhill from here on in.. he he..

i think its the whales playing whale games but that is just my opinion.. 

if the US stock markets take a dump it may go down further.. there is a lot of fear about..

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 23, 2021)

trog100 said:


> the big fear will be.. has the market reached a top and will it be downhill from here on in.. he he..
> 
> i think its the whales playing whale games but that is just my opinion..
> 
> ...



the fact its even tied to this dollar in this proves its not the future. and the fact whales can manipulate it so easily another reason its not the future. keep in mind i'm talking long term future - short term yeah its a real thing as we have already seen.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Apr 23, 2021)

This 'dip' is because Biden is going to impose a 40% increase on capital gains tax. People want to cash in some before that takes effect. Again, it's a sale that you may not want to miss out on.



lynx29 said:


> the fact its even tied to this dollar in this proves its not the future. and the fact whales can manipulate it so easily another reason its not the future. keep in mind i'm talking long term future - short term yeah its a real thing as we have already seen.



Well in China it's tied to the Yuan, in Japan to the Yen, in the USA the Dollar and so on and so on. You have to spend fiat to get BTC so of course it's tied to it, not sure why you tout that as a bad thing, it's a matter of how much fiat you have to spend to get 1 BTC and that is based on many things. My employer doesn't pay me in BTC but if they did I would not rely on fiat as much.


----------



## mtcn77 (Apr 23, 2021)

When I see fools like this, I want to join the Ayn Rand Institute and spread around Atlas Shrugged into the far reaches of the world where common sense is replaced by blind faith.
FYI, we just had a swindler who ran away with $2B going by the company name of 'Thodex' as if that wasn't a give away for those swindled.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 23, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Well in China it's tied to the Yuan, in Japan to the Yen, in the USA the Dollar and so on and so on. You have to spend fiat to get BTC so of course it's tied to it, not sure why you tout that as a bad thing, it's a matter of how much fiat you have to spend to get 1 BTC and that is based on many things. My employer doesn't pay me in BTC but if they did I would not rely on fiat as much.



Incorrect. It's tied to the dollar only. No one in China is pay 20k a coin in converted Dollar amounts, even if it is yuan, its yuan that equates to the dollar amount of Bitcoin at that current time. Bitcoin is still a slave to fiat and always will be. A true currency that replaces fiat and is global for all, will be based off a new revelation of thinking.


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 23, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> When I see fools like this, I want to join the Ayn Rand Institute and spread around Atlas Shrugged into the far reaches of the world where common sense is replaced by blind faith.
> FYI, we just had a swindler who ran away with $2B going by the company name of 'Thodex' as if that wasn't a give away for those swindled.


Ah, so that is what the Turkish investor/coin trader thing was all about.


----------



## SirEpicWin (Apr 23, 2021)

So some dude with a Coin exchange firm ran away with $2B worth of coins, and now a lot of coins are red.


----------



## mtcn77 (Apr 23, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Ah, so that is what the Turkish investor/coin trader thing was all about.


You make a company name like the Mishima Clan and I run away to a safe distance without further introductions.



SirEpicWin said:


> So some dude with a Coin exchange firm ran away with $2B worth of coins


He actually claims he has the exchange value stored in national currency. He claims the exchange was robbed the day it was opened and he was struggling to make payments, but the currency spike ruined his plans. Can you believe the drama of his guy!
PS: 24th of April update - we have another exchange down.


----------



## P4-630 (Apr 24, 2021)




----------



## R-T-B (Apr 24, 2021)

I've put my old rtx 2080 super in the mines.  It was going to just sit as my "backup" card but I couldn't justify it anymore just sitting.

The ecolology part of crypto has always bugged me, so I am primariily mining ethereum at highest possible energy efficiency.  At least they have a plan to end mining by ~2022 or so.


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 24, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I've put my old rtx 2080 super in the mines.  It was going to just sit as my "backup" card but I couldn't justify it anymore just sitting.
> 
> The ecolology part of crypto has always bugged me, so I am primariily mining ethereum at highest possible energy efficiency.  At least they have a plan to end mining by ~2022 or so.


How many MHs you getting with that card?

After ETH can't be mined, other coins will take off - Conflux, ETC, Ravencoin, etc.  You may see multiple coins start to become profitable and worth mining.

The system may diversify a bit.


----------



## R-T-B (Apr 24, 2021)

I get 42MH.  Nothing special but it's a shit ocer anyways so mostly power optimized.



sepheronx said:


> You may see multiple coins start to become profitable and worth mining.


I am anticipating (hoping really) by then we either solve the energy crisis or pass legislation to curb that.  We need one or the other or the path gets ugly.  I'm pro-nuclear to solve this but don't see it happening unfortunately.


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 24, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I get 42MH.  Nothing special but it's a shit ocer anyways so mostly power optimized.
> 
> 
> I am anticipating (hoping really) by then we either solve the energy crisis or pass legislation to curb that.  We need one or the other or the path gets ugly.  I'm pro-nuclear to solve this but don't see it happening unfortunately.


I'm against preventing of mining.  We waste energy on lots of stuff.  But I do promote trying to push for energy efficiency in components.

I've also learned passing legislation does squat to preventing mining. And as I have pointed out earlier, governments and institutions and rich are involved in mining industry too.  Too many big players will prevent it from dying 

I am all for nuclear energy. There aren't many players left in the field (China and Russia) with Westinghouse gone. So I don't really think it's going to take off either.


----------



## R-T-B (Apr 24, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> I'm against preventing of mining.  We waste energy on lots of stuff.  But I do promote trying to push for energy efficiency in components.
> 
> I've also learned passing legislation does squat to preventing mining. And as I have pointed out earlier, governments and institutions and rich are involved in mining industry too.  Too many big players will prevent it from dying
> 
> I am all for nuclear energy. There aren't many players left in the field (China and Russia) with Westinghouse gone. So I don't really think it's going to take off either.


I'm not exactly for legislation but between legislation and building up the grid with fossil fuels I'd have to go with legislation.

Mind you there are other ways.  Whether we take them is anyones guess.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Apr 24, 2021)

64K said:


> It's like that in most markets. Most buyers buy when the price is already too high. Warren Buffett had this to say about investing:
> 
> _"We simply attempt to be fearful when others are greedy and to be greedy only when others are fearful."_



Exactly.  Emotion and herd behavior are ultimately punished in the market.

Looks to me like BTC has lost its momentum.  That cross and downwards slope on MACD is predictive.

These are momentum indicators but all 3 of the ones on this chart are going bearish.  Below this is the same chart, for 2018, for comparison.  This is a weekly chart but my guess is, in 4-12 weeks BTC will be getting trashed.  Since there's nothing fundamental behind BTC, it's all herd behavior driven, which these kinds of charts are very good at.

Maybe in 6 months, we'll be able to buy GPUs again.






Same thing happened in 2018 :


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 24, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I'm not exactly for legislation but between legislation and building up the grid with fossil fuels I'd have to go with legislation.
> 
> Mind you there are other ways.  Whether we take them is anyones guess.



I'm all for tidal power, windmills and geothermal power plants.



RandallFlagg said:


> Exactly.  Emotion and herd behavior are ultimately punished in the market.
> 
> Looks to me like BTC has lost its momentum.  That cross and downwards slope on MACD is predictive.
> 
> ...


It got hit because people are selling to prevent their gains from getting heavily taxed now.  They will buy again


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 24, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> It got hit because people are selling to prevent their gains from getting heavily taxed now.  They will buy again



why would they buy again, unless the law on capital gains tax changes?


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> why would they buy again, unless the law on capital gains tax changes?


Because as long as there is profit to be made, they will.  There is two bonus to what they did. They made money by selling, and they don't pay the surge in taxes. They will buy again while low and let it grow. They will pay the taxes then. They just saved themselves this time on paying the hiked 40%.

Unless you are one of those who believe they will sit on their money and not let it grow in either stocks or bitcoins, because they will pay a tax for that profit?  This doesn't just affect crypto. It affects those who also have stock investments.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 24, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Because as long as there is profit to be made, they will.  There is two bonus to what they did. They made money by selling, and they don't pay the surge in taxes. They will buy again while low and let it grow. They will pay the taxes then. They just saved themselves this time on paying the hiked 40%.
> 
> Unless you are one of those who believe they will sit on their money and not let it grow in either stocks or bitcoins, because they will pay a tax for that profit?



Do you even know where the big selloffs were from this time? How do you know they were not China wallets like the last selloff? Cause if they were China wallets, the USA capital gains tax doesn't apply to them. Or you just like theorizing for the fun of it cause it makes you feel nice and warm at night having all the answers?


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Do you even know where the big selloffs were from this time? How do you know they were not China wallets like the last selloff? Cause if they were China wallets, the USA capital gains tax doesn't apply to them. Or you just like theorizing for the fun of it cause it makes you feel nice and warm at night having all the answers?


It's the news









						Bitcoin drops below $50,000 over tax hike scare
					

Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies were deep in the red early Friday, selling off over worries that the US government will hike taxes in the near future.




					www.google.com
				












						Cryptocurrencies fall on possible Biden capital gains tax hike. Cramer, Draper and others react
					

With reports of Biden's plans to raise capital gains taxes shaving billions off the cryptocurrency market, market analysts evaluate the move's impact.




					www.google.com
				






			https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-dip-biden-tax-hike-capital-gains%3Famp%3D1&ved=2ahUKEwjf9Ja_rpfwAhUzzjgGHZOaCm4QFjAOegQIKBAC&usg=AOvVaw0WdgAg2EnYVJxJgWpSoWw2&ampcf=1
		





			https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/7347445002&ved=2ahUKEwjf9Ja_rpfwAhUzzjgGHZOaCm4QFjAYegQIOBAC&usg=AOvVaw3U0e4D9Hg7uqDBY60qaomv&ampcf=1
		


So either that or the media is lying.  Choose your pick.

Also the stocks did get hit too. But recovering


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 24, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> It's the news
> 
> 
> 
> ...



@trog100 last time you had a source I assume, when you knew the last crash mainly came from China wallets dumping in mass.

So use that same source, and let us know where the biggest three dumps from wallets originated from.

then we don't have to trust the news at all


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> @trog100 last time you had a source I assume, when you knew the last crash mainly came from China wallets dumping in mass.
> 
> So use that same source, and let us know where the biggest three dumps from wallets originated from.
> 
> then we don't have to trust the news at all



Trusting the news is hard to come by. Due to my actual history with family and how US media lied outright lied about family affairs, I will never trust US media again. But as the saying goes, a broken clock is right twice a day. Sometimes they may be correct.

RT source, regardless how many may feel, also states somewhat the same. But it also actually adds in the Turkish coin trader that fled with $2B to also be responsible for this drop. And then a second Turkish coin trader went belly up as well.









						Bitcoin leads massive cryptocurrency market sell-off
					

The cryptocurrency market fell sharply on Friday amid concerns over new taxes that could be unveiled by US President Joe Biden, and after one of Turkey’s largest crypto exchanges went bust.




					www.rt.com
				












						Turkey’s crypto mayhem: Vebitcoin exchange faces probe, becomes 2nd platform to go down in days
					

In the second big crypto scandal emerging in Turkey this week, the financial watchdog has blocked all onshore bank accounts and arrested staff of Vebitcoin, after opening an investigation into yet another exchange.




					www.rt.com


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 24, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Trusting the news is hard to come by. Due to my actual history with family and how US media lied outright lied about family affairs, I will never trust US media again. But as the saying goes, a broken clock is right twice a day. Sometimes they may be correct.
> 
> RT source, regardless how many may feel, also states somewhat the same. But it also actually adds in the Turkish coin trader that fled with $2B to also be responsible for this drop. And then a second Turkish coin trader went belly up as well.
> 
> ...



well you just proved my point, it's not just the capital gains tax... as you originally claimed. -that being said, it probably was a mixture of all 3, the Turkey stuff, China pump and dump to take advantage of the capital gains scare, and so on and so forth.

it's all useless.  im glad y'all getting rich, but I want no part of it.


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> well you just proved my point, it's not just the capital gains tax... as you originally claimed. -that being said, it probably was a mixture of all 3, the Turkey stuff, China pump and dump to take advantage of the capital gains scare, and so on and so forth.
> 
> it's all useless.  im glad y'all getting rich, but I want no part of it.


Nothing wrong with that.  Capital gains tax may be the biggest factor that has led to the sale off and as you say, the Chinese whales taking advantage of it.

Not wanting part of it is also perfectly fine and a rather commendable way of sticking to your guns.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 24, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> and a rather commendable way of sticking to your guns.



or very foolish of me, as inflation is occurring at a higher and higher frequency. lol

eh, been poor my whole life. it's not so bad. (american poor is different than other countries poor, so no need to correct me, I know being poor here is still privileged lol)


----------



## R-T-B (Apr 24, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Looks to me like BTC has lost its momentum. That cross and downwards slope on MACD is predictive.


I hope so.  I feel like buying some to sit on but right now that'd be insane.


----------



## 64K (Apr 24, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I hope so.  I feel like buying some to sit on but right now that'd be insane.



It's just gambling really. I've always seen the Stock Market as a casino as well. Most people lose money in the markets because they see the Market going up and up and think that it will keep going up forever.


----------



## R-T-B (Apr 24, 2021)

64K said:


> It's just gambling really. I've always seen the Stock Market as a casino as well. Most people lose money in the markets because they see the Market going up and up and think that it will keep going up forever.


Not much different.  Profesional gamblers read the room, pro stock/crypto traders read the markets.  The analogy isn't far off.


----------



## trog100 (Apr 24, 2021)

short term bitcoin is a  gamble  long term it isnt.. it may have its short term highs and lows but the long term trend  is up..

i am not a gambler and never have been.. but i am hanging on to my crypto.. 

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 24, 2021)

trog100 said:


> short term bitcoin is a  gamble a long term it isnt.. it may have its short term highs and lows but the long term trend  is up..
> 
> i am not a gambler and never have been.. but i am hanging on to my crypto..
> 
> trog



that's fair. also we have seen two world governments fall, Venezuela and I forget which other one, and guess what currency the people started using... when their fiat became worthless... crypto.

so... I mean no world government is immune from this risk. America thinks it is, but it isn't.  it's amazing to me how dumb the people in power can be on both sides of the aisle sometimes to boot... so yes it probably will happen eventually. and Bitcoin is a slave to no single nation, which is what gives it its true power. 

i regret not mining in 2012 when I started looking into it. I had a 7990 back then too. but i know my personality... i would have sold it when it hit $200 for the first time thinking i was rich as crap. lol  eh.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Apr 24, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> It got hit because people are selling to prevent their gains from getting heavily taxed now.  They will buy again



You think so?

I think If that story from the NYT had not come out, the markets most likely would have gone down anyway.   The pundits would have stated a different reason, because they have to give a reason, it's their job.  Reality: They don't know.  

As far as bitcoin...   Let me show you how ridiculous what you just said really is.  

The story about Biden's tax plan came out on April 22nd, and hit about mid - day.  

Here is where April 22 is on that Bitcoin chart :


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 24, 2021)

I think we will just have to wait and see, no?

The story comes out, but there is much more to it than just all the news hoopla.  What is ridiculous is the people who think this is the end.

So it is you vs what everyone else says.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Apr 24, 2021)

Because no one knew anything before the news said it...right? Insider information isn't real and only when the news announces something does it actually become true. Also I'm sure Biden just woke up that morning and executed it, no prior plans, no mention...just like yup, today Im raising capital gains 40%....Talk about ridiculous...

I really get tired of all the salt people throw in here if crypto expeinces a drop. Pretty sure it is soley to make themselves feel better for not buying into Crypto years, and years ago.


----------



## 64K (Apr 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> that's fair. also we have seen two world governments fall, Venezuela and I forget which other one, and guess what currency the people started using... when their fiat became worthless... crypto.
> 
> so... I mean no world government is immune from this risk. America thinks it is, but it isn't.  it's amazing to me how dumb the people in power can be on both sides of the aisle sometimes to boot... so yes it probably will happen eventually. and Bitcoin is a slave to no single nation, which is what gives it its true power.
> 
> i regret not mining in 2012 when I started looking into it. I had a 7990 back then too. but i know my personality... i would have sold it when it hit $200 for the first time thinking i was rich as crap. lol  eh.



I get what you are saying but bear in mind the US dollar is the World Reserve Currency. We are bound to have inflation in the future but there is more safety in the US dollar than was in the Venezualean Bolivar.









						Will the U.S. Dollar Lose Its Place as the World's No. 1 Reserve Currency?
					

Some fear stimulus spending to offset the worst of the economic shutdown during the COVID-19 pandemic and the Federal Reserve's injection of billions into the economy threaten the U.S. dollar's standing as the world's reserve currency.




					www.newsweek.com


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 24, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Because no one knew anything before the news said it...right? Insider information isn't real and only when the news announces something does it actually become true. Also I'm sure Biden just woke up that morning and executed it, no prior plans, no mention...just like yup, today Im raising capital gains 40%....Talk about ridiculous....



Let him be.  He will come up with some other excuse later on as to why it grew and then will take a dump again.  Rinse and repeat.  He can call everyone else ridiculous.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Apr 24, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Because no one knew anything before the news said it...right? Insider information isn't real and only when the news announces something does it actually become true. Also I'm sure Biden just woke up that morning and executed it, no prior plans, no mention...just like yup, today Im raising capital gains 40%....Talk about ridiculous...
> 
> I really get tired of all the salt people throw in here if crypto expeinces a drop. Pretty sure it is soley to make themselves feel better for not buying into Crypto years, and years ago.




Those paying attention knew about Biden's tax plans last year during the election.  The only thing that has changed is that he now says he is only taxing people making over 400K/ year (2% of US households fit this criteria), while during the election it was people making over  $1M / year.  

OFC this is all bunk from a politician.  The ones affected most will be those who make between 137K and 400K, as the plan also raises the cap on SS from 137K to 400K.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Apr 24, 2021)

Those paying attention..Like people in the Stock and Crypto Markets?


----------



## trog100 (Apr 25, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Because no one knew anything before the news said it...right? Insider information isn't real and only when the news announces something does it actually become true. Also I'm sure Biden just woke up that morning and executed it, no prior plans, no mention...just like yup, today Im raising capital gains 40%....Talk about ridiculous...
> 
> I really get tired of all the salt people throw in here if crypto expeinces a drop. Pretty sure it is soley to make themselves feel better for not buying into Crypto years, and years ago.



coiners and no coiners.. one tries to justify having crypto the other tries to justify not having crypto.. pretty simple really.. 

trog


----------



## P4-630 (Apr 25, 2021)

> New mining ASIC for Ethereum is as fast as 32 RTX 3080s




















						BITMAIN
					

BITMAIN， Beijing, China. 4.6 万次赞. BITMAIN is the world's foremost producer of ASIC bitcoin mining hardware. We offer both consumer and enterprise solutions for every level of miner.




					www.bitmain.com


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Apr 26, 2021)

Looks like 50k'ish is now the floor. Not sure how strong the floor is but seems to be pretty solid.


----------



## Colddecked (Apr 26, 2021)

Its pretty strong, like the 2200 dollar point for ETH...


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 26, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Not sure how strong the floor is but seems to be pretty solid.




that's what she said


----------



## trog100 (Apr 26, 2021)

it would seem that he who controls the price of bitcoin controls the price of the entire crypto market.. strange but true..

i am still a firm believer that the bitcoin price is being manipulated.. it dosnt bother me that much because i also believe that the people doing the manipulating ultimately want the price to go up.. 

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 26, 2021)

trog100 said:


> it would that he who controls the price of bitcoin controls the price of the entire crypto market.. strange but true..
> 
> trog



i still think in like 10 years, quantum computing will be able to hack sha-256 and ruin the entire network/infect it of bitcoin. isn't it secured with sha-256 or something? i can't remember, but even if not just replace sha-256 with whatever it is called and i think it won't last. nothing is unhackable once the computing power reaches enough end point, and those with the most computing power... nefarious governments with supercomputers... so if they wanted to I almost wonder if they could bring down the entire bitcoin network now if they wanted. all computers update to the latest node mined right? its like a simultaneous update across all pc's on the blockchain, so if you corrupted the blockchain with an update, it could bring them all down at once, or the vast majority anyway?


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Apr 26, 2021)

Yes, SHA256 and you might be right. That is still long ways off. However if that does happen it won't be just BTC. The entire Banking world is screwed. Every secret the .Gov has would be readable unless on paper. Way, way bigger things to be afraid of.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 26, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Yes, SHA256 and you might be right. That is still long ways off. However if that does happen it won't be just BTC. The entire Banking world is screwed. Every secret the .Gov has would be readable unless on paper. Way, way bigger things to be afraid of.



ya I don't care either way, just was saying lol

I'm sure governments of the world leave the most... important stuff off computers still, but I could be wrong, it does seem to be they hire very inept people sometimes LOL


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Apr 26, 2021)

Yeah, All I am saying is that when that happens it is going to change everything. In area's you wouldn't even think to look. If you thought cracking the Enigma Code was impressive, just wait for Quantum Computing. Potentially very disruptive, but who knows maybe it will also push us into a new age of enlightenment.


----------



## mtcn77 (Apr 26, 2021)

This is like an accountant's dream, imo.

Have money,
Put money in the ledger book to make virtual transactions,
Debit cold hard cash.
It is like how to cook the books 101.


----------



## dhklopp (Apr 29, 2021)

My boss has been going on about WenLambo all week.  It launches tonight at 1900 and he reckons the price will skyrocket.  @WenLamboDefi is their Twitter handle.  I'm gonna chuck a couple of hundred at it and pray 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## kayjay010101 (Apr 29, 2021)

dhklopp said:


> My boss has been going on about WenLambo all week.  It launches tonight at 1900 and he reckons the price will skyrocket.  @WenLamboDefi is their Twitter handle.  I'm gonna chuck a couple of hundred at it and pray
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Such an obvious scam lol
The phrase 'Wen Lambo' is an inside-joke in the crypto community


----------



## Outback Bronze (Apr 29, 2021)

kayjay010101 said:


> Such an obvious scam lol
> The phrase 'Wen Lambo' is an inside-joke in the crypto community



Well Dogecoin took off..


----------



## kayjay010101 (Apr 29, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> Well Dogecoin took off..


I suppose so, but Dogecoin doesn't have any possible exit plan. 
This WenLambo thing hasn't had any audits or anything.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 29, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> Well Dogecoin took off..



not really. it was 29 cents a couple days ago... it sonly 30 cents now after dipping down to 23 cents for a few days.  



dhklopp said:


> My boss has been going on about WenLambo all week.  It launches tonight at 1900 and he reckons the price will skyrocket.  @WenLamboDefi is their Twitter handle.  I'm gonna chuck a couple of hundred at it and pray
> 
> 
> 
> ...



have fun losing your money. dumbest coin I have heard of.


----------



## kayjay010101 (Apr 29, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> not really. it was 29 cents a couple days ago... it sonly 30 cents now after dipping down to 23 cents for a few days.
> 
> 
> 
> have fun losing your money. dumbest coin I have heard of.


To be fair, single unit price is irrelevant.
An asset having a 6400% return in under 4 months is definitely what I'd call taking off.


----------



## Outback Bronze (Apr 29, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> not really



Really?? It wasn't even 1 cent in January..


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 29, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> Really?? It wasn't even 1 cent in January..



i thought you were referencing the short term gains of last few weeks.


----------



## dhklopp (Apr 29, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> not really. it was 29 cents a couple days ago... it sonly 30 cents now after dipping down to 23 cents for a few days.
> 
> 
> 
> have fun losing your money. dumbest coin I have heard of.



Only profit from his previous MOONCU*T tip so easy come easy go .


----------



## Outback Bronze (Apr 29, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> last few weeks



Even the last few weeks have been crazy for Dogecoin. On the 12th April it was $0.07

Does this class as the last few weeks?


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 29, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> Even the last few weeks have been crazy for Dogecoin. On the 12th April it was $0.07
> 
> Does this class as the last few weeks?



hmm I didn't realize that. still, it is a coin that has infinite supply. I'm not sure why its taking off, doesn't make sense to me. personally I still hope Congress passes laws against crypto mining - that being said I also hope Congress passes law that invests in RnD to find a new cement/infrastructure substitute. Cement is probably the number 1 offender of climate change, but it looks like none of it will happen as the system is sadly broken.


----------



## dhklopp (Apr 29, 2021)

Happy days, made some good profit.  Gonna let my initial investment run.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 29, 2021)

dhklopp said:


> Happy days, made some good profit.  Gonna let my initial investment run.



you haven't made any profit until its in fiat. could crash tomorrow.

fiat won't crash tomorrow. it will have tiny inflation sure, but it won't crash.


----------



## dhklopp (Apr 29, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> you haven't made any profit until its in fiat. could crash tomorrow.
> 
> fiat won't crash tomorrow. it will have tiny inflation sure, but it won't crash.


Well my profit is already in BNB now which is easy enough to cash out but whatever,


----------



## trog100 (Apr 29, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> you haven't made any profit until its in fiat. could crash tomorrow.
> 
> fiat won't crash tomorrow. it will have tiny inflation sure, but it won't crash.



some clever people think it will crash or at least lose most of its purchasing power which is the same thing.. 

trog


----------



## xkm1948 (Apr 29, 2021)

trog100 said:


> some clever people think it will crash or at least *lose most of its purchasing power* which is the same thing..
> 
> trog


Yup, exactly this.

lynx probably means Venezuela level paper note "crashing"


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 29, 2021)

dhklopp said:


> Well my profit is already in BNB now which is easy enough to cash out but whatever,



most important thing is to look at what rich people do. what do rich people do? they diversify between where they place their wealth - art, real estate, crypto, stocks, multiple passports and multiple fiat's...

we can't do that of course... lol but yeah it's very telling how much rich people trust any one form of wealth... if they did 100% they wouldn't diversify.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 29, 2021)

Posted this in another thread, but it applies here as well and it's worth a look.








Brian makes some good points... I agree with him, GPU prices might be about to take a down-turn, which can only be good for gamers and the PC market in general!


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 29, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Posted this in another thread, but it applies here as well and it's worth a look.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



ASICS saved the day again.



trog100 said:


> some clever people think it will crash or at least lose most of its purchasing power which is the same thing..
> 
> trog



you may want to sell your cards while the prices are still good.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 29, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> ASICS saved the day again.


Maybe, time will tell. The part about yield returns is guaranteed to happen, there is only so much return that can happen. Etherium is not an infinite well, only so much of it can be mined..


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 30, 2021)

23 grand but it earns 230 a day, and if price increases, that like roughly 90 days and you get your money back... and another 90 days you make like another 23k profit minus electricity.  pretty nuts. i expect they will stay sold out as they are now lol


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 30, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> 23 grand but it earns 230 a day, and if price increases, that like roughly 90 days and you get your money back... and another 90 days you make like another 23k profit minus electricity.  pretty nuts. i expect they will stay sold out as they are now lol


Like I was saying elsewhere, GPU's will get the job done(only ATM), but dedicated ASIC's are king.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 30, 2021)

I think the greatest sadness with Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, was that they didn't utilize Folding At Home or other beneficial programs in their blockchain, so instead of useless math problems, each block would have to be submitted or fused with a problem from Folding At Home, hell we might have cured cancer by now with that kind of horsepower.


----------



## R-T-B (Apr 30, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I think the greatest sadness with Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, was that they didn't utilize Folding At Home or other beneficial programs in their blockchain, so instead of useless math problems, each block would have to be submitted or fused with a problem from Folding At Home, hell we might have cured cancer by now with that kind of horsepower.


There are coins that attempt this but sadly they are not very profitable and thus pretty much flops.



lexluthermiester said:


> Like I was saying elsewhere, GPU's will get the job done(only ATM), but dedicated ASIC's are king.


And another coin will be made for gpus.

We've been down that road before...


----------



## trog100 (May 2, 2021)

it seems to me that  money that would be going into bitcoin is now going into etherium.. bitcoin is down a little etherium is nicely up.. 

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (May 2, 2021)

trog100 said:


> it seems to me that  money that would be going into bitcoin is now going into etherium.. bitcoin is down a little etherium is nicely up..
> 
> trog



so if you hoddled eth and not converted it you would up even more right now. lol

in other news:









						Warren Buffett: We are seeing substantial inflation and are raising prices
					

Warren Buffett sounds the alarm bell on inflation.




					finance.yahoo.com
				




its the new normal across the board.  even your shampoo is also going to cost 5-9% more in costs this year than in previous years.

government be doing endless printing of fiat. so yeah...


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 3, 2021)

And this is why cash sitting in your bank account is losing buying power. You have to be adding to your savings at the same rate of inlfation to maintain...Or start investing because traditionally stock and especially now crypto are going to out pace inflation while also providing a return.

ETH at 3k! For Eth to overtake BTC in market share means that 1 eth will be $9k.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 3, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> And this is why cash sitting in your bank account is losing buying power. You have to be adding to your savings at the same rate of inlfation to maintain...Or start investing because traditionally stock and especially now crypto are going to out pace inflation while also providing a return.
> 
> ETH at 3k! For Eth to overtake BTC in market share means that 1 eth will be $9k.



Depends. A new stronger variant of the virus could arrive tomorrow, and close everything again all year, crashing the artificially held up stock markets.  I don't think that will happen, but at end of day nothing is safe. As far as that goes, I have so many medical issues, I honestly don't even care anymore what happens to any of it. (Typing this during a spinal flare up... so don't mind my negativity...) haha


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 3, 2021)

Or a giant meteor could crush North America...life's a gamble.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 3, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Or a giant meteor could crush North America...life's a gamble.



The thing is, all your extra money is useless to me. I don't care about nice cars homie. Enjoy your nice cars/nice house, etc.  /shrug


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 3, 2021)

I don't have extra money...all tied up in markets. That's my point.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 3, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> I don't have extra money...all tied up in markets. That's my point.



ah my apologies, I remember someone here bragging about buying nice cars with their crypto. my bad mate.


----------



## Zach_01 (May 3, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> The thing is, all your extra money is useless to me. I don't care about nice cars homie. Enjoy your nice cars/nice house, etc.  /shrug


You need to stop saying this all the time, and assume or act like you know what people are seek or trying to goal.
My job provides me more than I need (X2) for my (personal) life style. Yet I've invested in a few things. Can you assume or act like you know why I did this?

Take a step back and think first before you talk again about greed, fancy cars and houses. People are not alone in this world. They have families, kids, relatives, friends and all kinds of others around them.

This is a cryptocurrency thread on cryptocurrency section of the forum, and not a philosophical inquiry about human behavior.
It bothers me that you keep wondering in here and trying to sense others to your ideas and senses when clearly this is not the thread to do so.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 3, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> ah my apologies, I remember someone here bragging about buying nice cars with their crypto. my bad mate.



I did say I purchased a car. But wasn't bragging, (not what I was trying to project and if I did, then I apologize for that) was actually showing my massive mistake of cashing out some.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 3, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> You need to stop saying this all the time, and assume or act like you know what people are seek or trying to goal.
> My job provides me more than I need (X2) for my (personal) life style. Yet I've invested in a few things. Can you assume or act like you know why I did this?
> 
> Take a step back and think first before you talk again about greed, fancy cars and houses. People are not alone in this world. They have families, kids, relatives, friends and all kinds of others around them.
> ...



I'll do as I please until mods tell me to do otherwise, if you don't like it, ignore me, I could care less.



ZenZimZaliben said:


> I did say I purchased a car. But wasn't bragging, (not what I was trying to project and if I did, then I apologize for that) was actually showing my massive mistake of cashing out some.



Understandable, I misunderstood then. Glad to see you learned from your mistake on the car thing. I have never understood people sinking money into cars when they all last about the same amount of mileage (assuming you take care of them and don't buy a horrible model year or something).


----------



## trog100 (May 3, 2021)

i think its time bitcoin got up off its arse and started moving again.. it needs to..

trog

ps.. eth now at over 3200 and bitcoin has started to move.. just below 60K.. maybe it heard me..


----------



## trog100 (May 4, 2021)

bitcoin dropped back to 56/57K but eth is now doing its own thing its now at 3430.. its no longer slavishly following bitcoin.. what this means i havnt a clue but its a change..

i think the whales are trying to control the rest of the market by kicking bitcoin down.. if so its no longer working..

trog

ps.. eth is now over 3500


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 4, 2021)

trog100 said:


> bitcoin dropped back to 56/57K but eth is now doing its own thing its now at 3430.. its no longer slavishly following bitcoin.. what this means i havnt a clue but its a change..
> 
> i think the whales are trying to control the rest of the market by kicking bitcoin down.. if so its no longer working..
> 
> ...



Bitcoin lost momentum weeks ago as posted at the link below.  Note that is a weekly chart so while there may be daily ups and downs, it's on its way down.   There are more sellers than buyers at its current level.  Telling is that over two weeks after the peak the RSI is still overbought, and the small pop it got was on very low volume - no buyers.









						Bitcoin price suddenly surges to 3-year high
					

So some dude with a Coin exchange firm ran away with $2B worth of coins, and now a lot of coins are red.




					www.techpowerup.com
				




The overall crypto market is losing momentum which can be seen by the downwards slopes on cci and rsi, but may not have peaked yet.  

Those two lines circled haven't crossed.  When they do, it's a good idea to exit.  Again, this is a weekly chart, so this is longer term trend changes.  
 I wouldn't be surprised if the crypto market winds up taking down or being blamed for taking down other unrelated markets since a lot of companies decided to buy some as a place to park 'cash', thinking it was real money instead of the ponzi scheme it really is.  They might as well have parked their cash on a roulette wheel.  Some CIOs gonna be getting that golden parachute I'm sure.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 4, 2021)

The only thing this proves is ALT coins are faltering and GOOD! There are so many BS coins out there that need to go away (there are 5000 alt coins!!!). Doge is top of my list. But if you think a 8 month chart is going to predict the long term outcome for BTC and ETH then I think you are misguided at best.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 4, 2021)

dogecoin at 54 cents. lmao.  what an insane world.


----------



## trog100 (May 4, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> The only thing this proves is ALT coins are faltering and GOOD! There are so many BS coins out there that need to go away (there are 5000 alt coins!!!). Doge is top of my list. But if you think a weekly chart is going to predict the long term outcome for BTC and ETH then I think you are misguided at best.


 
nah he is just anti crypto and picks the charts that suit his cause.. 

the stock markets have taken a hit today that may have pushed crypto prices down a little..

trog


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 4, 2021)

trog100 said:


> nah he is just anti crypto and picks the charts that suit his cause..
> 
> the stock markets have taken a hit today that may have pushed crypto prices down a little..
> 
> trog



F'ing stock market is brutal today.


----------



## 64K (May 4, 2021)

Ethereum is down a little but Bitcoin took a considerable hit.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 4, 2021)

You could have invested in lumber, and been better off than Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is the blue line :


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 4, 2021)

Then go invest in lumber.


----------



## R-T-B (May 4, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> You could have invested in lumber, and been better off than Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is the blue line :
> 
> View attachment 199230


I hope you like paying storage rent.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 4, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I hope you like paying storage rent.



I'm pretty sure he just meant buying lumber company stocks? What does storage have to do with anything?

edit:  also if you bought AMD stock at $1 a share like 5 years ago, you'd be rich as crap right now... I almost did... but decided not to at last second. regrets.


----------



## R-T-B (May 4, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I'm pretty sure he just meant buying lumber company stocks? What does storage have to do with anything?
> 
> edit:  also if you bought AMD stock at $1 a share like 5 years ago, you'd be rich as crap right now... I almost did... but decided not to at last second. regrets.


Ah yes futures.  You are right.  I am just early morning brain farting.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 5, 2021)

ETC been killing it for me. In @ $11. Currently pushing $100. I think $300 in next couple months.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 5, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> regrets



Regrets? Why? Didn't you just say you didn't need money and investments and were happy doing your zen thing?



lynx29 said:


> The thing is, all your extra money is useless to me. I don't care about nice cars homie. Enjoy your nice cars/nice house, etc.  /shrug


----------



## R0H1T (May 5, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> You could have invested in lumber, and been better off than Bitcoin


You're talking about that *lumber*, or some crypto named lumber


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 5, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I am just early morning brain farting.


No worries, happens to the best of us!


----------



## Space Lynx (May 5, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> Regrets? Why? Didn't you just say you didn't need money and investments and were happy doing your zen thing?



I never said that actually. I said excess is unnecessary, but it would have been nice to pay off a house and car in cash. (the car being a cheaper one and the house also a reasonable one, like 150 grand house in the Midwest is equivalent to a 500 grand one in California), so I'd opt for the 150 grand one, and retire early. etc.


----------



## sepheronx (May 6, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> ETC been killing it for me. In @ $11. Currently pushing $100. I think $300 in next couple months.


Just got 1 ETC now.  So I got hopes.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 6, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I never said that actually. I said excess is unnecessary, but it would have been nice to pay off a house and car in cash. (the car being a cheaper one and the house also a reasonable one, like 150 grand house in the Midwest is equivalent to a 500 grand one in California), so I'd opt for the 150 grand one, and retire early. etc.


How do you know his was excess?  Who determines excess?



sepheronx said:


> Just got 1 ETC now.  So I got hopes.


Hope is a wonderful thing.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 6, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> How do you know his was excess?  Who determines excess?
> 
> 
> Hope is a wonderful thing.



No one really, but my guess is, after observing human nature (even the billionaires are too afraid to retire and enjoy life) they just fixate and fixate on making more and more and more money, seems to be a bad universal human trait I am afraid regardless of how much money you have, very few are able to break free from those chains and simply enjoy life.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 6, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> (even the billionaires are too afraid to retire and enjoy life)


But, and really a huge what-if, they really like running their business and that is what they enjoy?


----------



## Space Lynx (May 6, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> But, and really a huge what-if, they really like running their business and that is what they enjoy?



Then they are blinded. For the Cosmos and Planet Earth studies/adventures/explorations are so vast/diverse, and many of them can't be experienced without x amount of money to take you to those places, and y there is not enough time in a single lifetime to experience all of it, and z they are all or mostly all very profound experiences.

Have you ever see the stars at the top of a mountain top with clouds covering up everything below you? Camped there? If not, then you are blind. Welcome to Plato's class, Allegory of the Cave lecture 101. Yawnfest 2021 I still have to explain this to Epicureans.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 6, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Have you ever see the stars at the top of a mountain top with clouds covering up everything below you? Camped there? If not, then you are blind. Welcome to Plato's class, Allegory of the Cave lecture 101. Yawnfest 2021 I still have to explain this to Epicureans.


So are you saying that only you can see the way?


----------



## 64K (May 6, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I never said that actually. I said excess is unnecessary, but it would have been nice to pay off a house and car in cash. (the car being a cheaper one and the house also a reasonable one, like 150 grand house in the Midwest is equivalent to a 500 grand one in California), so I'd opt for the 150 grand one, and retire early. etc.



I didn't try my luck at crypto-currency for the same reason that I have never bought individual stocks. I'm wrong more often than not and that is normal. I did invest in Mutual Funds but that's much less of a gamble. I also put money in CDs. I also paid into a pension plan. I took an early retirement last year at the age of 57 and I will live comfortably for the rest of my life barring the economy doesn't go to hell. Basically what I'm saying is that you can take early retirement without gambling in markets.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 6, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> So are you saying that only you can see the way?



No, but Plato, Aristotle, and many other philosophers can. They didn't just make it up randomly one day for fun. LOL


----------



## moproblems99 (May 6, 2021)

I didn't try my luck at crypto-currency for the same reason that I have never bought individual stocks. I'm wrong more often than not and that is normal. I did invest in Mutual Funds but that's much less of a gamble. I also put money in CDs. I also paid into a pension plan. I took an early retirement last year at the age of 57 and I will live comfortably for the rest of my life barring the economy doesn't go to hell. Basically what I'm saying is that you can take early retirement without gambling in markets.
Sometimes it is just for the lulz.


lynx29 said:


> No, but Plato, Aristotle, and many other philosophers can. They didn't just make it up randomly one day for fun. LOL


I have read enough of your posts to know that what you are implying is contradictory to what you believe.

Also, for what it's worth.  I am currently reading Homer, though not in Greek.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 6, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> I have read enough of your posts to know that what you are implying is contradictory to what you believe.
> 
> Also, for what it's worth.  I am currently reading Homer, though not in Greek.



More so you are just not understanding, Aristotle, and many others I refer to also say good amount of wealth is healthy in fact. I never said it wasn't. I simply said the fixation addiction to wealth seems to be a common occurrence, and once hooked, similar to a drug one can not break from. I only said to @ZenZimZaliben and @trog100 if you have reached enough wealth with crypto to increase your happiness tenfold long-term and short term, then pull out now and enjoy the fruits of your investment.

I simply meant timing is important with risky assets.  For Trog, it's not a risky asset, just fun for him. For Zen I don't know, just was giving him my two cents. All I meant was that if I had invested in Crypto, I would hope I would not become addicted to it, and would cash out, buy a house in cash, retire early, secure my future. If fiat fails and crypto fails, at least your house is yours. /shrug

That being said I don't care what any of you do with your money, I was simply stating how the philosophers of old would most likely view it.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 6, 2021)

Never gamble what you can't afford to lose. I also don't want my money sitting in a bank not working for me or worse losing value as it sits, since interest can't even offset inflation.

Philosophers of old would be YOLO'ing it on Crypto.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 6, 2021)

to the moon boys!









						New York looks to ban cryptomining to study environmental impacts
					

A new bill aimed at cryptocurrency is making its way through the New York senate, and it's one that will undoubtedly ruffle a lot of feathers. Bill...




					www.techspot.com
				




Hopefully this is only the beginning.



ZenZimZaliben said:


> Never gamble what you can't afford to lose. I also don't want my money sitting in a bank not working for me or worse losing value as it sits, since interest can't even offset inflation.
> 
> Philosophers of old would be YOLO'ing it on Crypto.



Doubtful, Plato had inherited wealth I believe, and didn't really have to worry about investing, or working, etc. Inherited wealth + wanting very little material things allows for many freedoms.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 6, 2021)

Typical rich guy. No real world skills, inherted wealth, becomes a philospher and tells the poor how to live a meaningful life that he never had to live. /s


----------



## Space Lynx (May 6, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Typical rich guy. No real world skills, inherted wealth, becomes a philospher and tells the poor how to live a meaningful life that he never had to live. /s



He never advised the poor. Do you know nothing of Plato? He only cared about the Forms, which have nothing to do with the realm of men. Only one with a lot of spare time on their hands can contemplate such things. Please try to know some basics before commenting.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 6, 2021)

It was joke man...see the /s (that means sarcasm).


----------



## moproblems99 (May 6, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> He never advised the poor. Do you know nothing of Plato? He only cared about the Forms, which have nothing to do with the realm of men. Only one with a lot of spare time on their hands can contemplate such things. Please try to know some basics before commenting.


That would be applicable if this wasn't a crypto thread you keep coming in and moaning about regrets and philosophy you don't even live by.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 6, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> That would be applicable if this wasn't a crypto thread you keep coming in and moaning about regrets and philosophy you don't even live by.



Incorrect, I was not the one who kept this conversation going, in fact, I was done with it before you prompted me with a question several posts above. I have a right to rebuttal if you have a right to off-topic questioning. Sorry, that's how basic logic works.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 6, 2021)

ETC @ $130. Nice! ETH going to be $4k in a few weeks. LOL.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 6, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> ETC @ $130. Nice! ETH going to be $4k in a few weeks. LOL.


I'm not sure it will take that long.



lynx29 said:


> Sorry, that's how basic logic works.


I didn't say you had to end the conversation.  I said use your brain.


----------



## trog100 (May 6, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> ETC @ $130. Nice! ETH going to be $4k in a few weeks. LOL.



i just heard someone saying eth could be at 8K by the beginning of july.. that would be nice.. 

trog


----------



## moproblems99 (May 6, 2021)

trog100 said:


> i just heard someone saying eth could be at 8K by the beginning of july.. that would be nice..
> 
> trog


10k is probably my sell point for eth.


----------



## Mescalamba (May 6, 2021)

Maybe Im going to be surprised, but I will be surprised if ETH exceeds 0.11 of BTC value.

So lets see if I will be or not.


----------



## 64K (May 6, 2021)

There are some pretty wild speculations out there about Ethereum. Financial Analysts are getting involved. One says that Ethereum could go as high as $70,000 by 2025


----------



## Mescalamba (May 6, 2021)

64K said:


> There are some pretty wild speculations out there about Ethereum. Financial Analysts are getting involved. One says that Ethereum could go as high as $10,000 by 2025


Yea and some guy promised he will eat his socks or something if BTC wont get to 100k till whatever was that year. And obviously it didnt. Unsure about socks.

Anyone can make speculations.

Thing is. Crypto aint regulated. So crypto will go up and then it will go down. Its not stocks, it doesnt have brakes.

Can ETH get to 10k? Sure. Probably some time after BTC gets to that 100k. When? Nobody can tell. Will it ever? Cant tell either.

In some sense I like this deep uncertainty about crypto. Usually not in moments when Im down 50%.


----------



## phill (May 6, 2021)

I can't see Crypto going anywhere to be honest, its just become too big...

I mean there's some lovely gains with it at the moment don't get me wrong but still...  It is only Crypto after all guys....    Easy come, easy go!!


----------



## R-T-B (May 6, 2021)

phill said:


> It is only Crypto after all guys....  Easy come, easy go!!


I used to think like this.  I sold whatever I got when I mined it.

If I'd held, I'd be a literal multi-millionaire today.

There are two sides to that coin.

Today, I'm holding my ether.  If it all goes down with the ship, tough cookies, it didn't cost me much.  Plus I like Ethereums exit strat from being a PoW based coin.



lynx29 said:


> Hopefully this is only the beginning.


Nah it's just New York being New York.  Crypto trading there has been so expensive it might as well be illegal since 2016ish.  It's just how that state thinks.  Several exchanges won't even let New York based IPs visit.

It's not exactly a hot mining state anyways.


----------



## phill (May 7, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I used to think like this.  I sold whatever I got when I mined it.
> 
> If I'd held, I'd be a literal multi-millionaire today.
> 
> ...


There's always a what if I'd done this rather than that and so on, but we live by our choices and we go from there...

I'm in the same boat with it as we should have held on to things rather than sold them, you live for the moment at times not 5 years down the road..  At the end of the day, we just hold now!


----------



## trog100 (May 7, 2021)

phill said:


> There's always a what if I'd done this rather than that and so on, but we live by our choices and we go from there...
> 
> I'm in the same boat with it as we should have held on to things rather than sold them, you live for the moment at times not 5 years down the road..  At the end of the day, we just hold now!



i did hold i never sold i just forgot about the whole thing.. until i read this thread early in the year.. he he

to me selling an asset that keeps going up would be like eating the goose that lays the golden eggs and its interesting watching the numbers go up.. long term i am pretty sure they will..

as for stock market having brakes.. nah that was before governments started going mad with the money printing machines.. currently they are an over inflated bubble waiting for a pin.. 

trog


----------



## phill (May 7, 2021)

trog100 said:


> i did hold i never sold i just forgot about the whole thing.. until i read this thread early in the year.. he he
> 
> to me selling an asset that keeps going up would be like eating the goose that lays the golden eggs and its interesting watching the numbers go up.. long term i am pretty sure they will..
> 
> ...


I'm very sure sir you have a fair bit behind you know which is amazing as unless everything goes completely Pete Tong, it'll be a lovely little nest egg


----------



## trog100 (May 7, 2021)

phill said:


> I'm very sure sir you have a fair bit behind you know which is amazing as unless everything goes completely Pete Tong, it'll be a lovely little nest egg



the future is all a bit unknown phil but it might make the grand kids rich.. he he

the thing is what i held and didnt sell from 2017 has made me about 50K or so this year.. 

trog


----------



## phill (May 7, 2021)

Yep only the past is known and we can't do a damn thing to change that so hopefully learning from it we should be good to go!!   I am in it for my children and hopefully theirs too..  Hopefully I'll still be around to see them grow up and teach them overclocking 

It's utterly mental but utterly brilliant at the same time I think!!


----------



## Space Lynx (May 7, 2021)

phill said:


> Yep only the past is known and we can't do a damn thing to change that so hopefully learning from it we should be good to go!!  I am in it for my children and hopefully theirs too.. Hopefully I'll still be around to see them grow up and teach them overclocking
> 
> It's utterly mental but utterly brilliant at the same time I think!!



I'm still of the mindset that hodling long term is a bad idea. As I have said in past, if crypto gets too big, Fiat will never let itself be undermined as that is where government power comes from. They will make every business in many countries pay enormous taxes on every transaction (I'm talking long term future not right now), sure you can always fly to a different a country and spend it I suppose say when buying a new graphics card with it or insert any item of value you want to buy. Even then, when you fly back home, customs will want to know what is in your bag... so I still don't see a way around it though.

Crypto is a commodity, so the tax on it can go as high they deem necessary. No different than cigarettes having very high tax rates. I expect within 4 years we will see a 45% tax rate on every transaction of crypto from any business on United States soil. Fiat will never let itself be undermined. 

If you can improve your generational wealth through a real estate purchase now, I would say do that first and foremost. That is how true generational stable wealth is created. Every rich family in England, well majority of them, inherited house from this person or that person, and so all the money they made at their regular job was bank. No rent fee = game changer.


----------



## phill (May 7, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I'm still of the mindset that hodling long term is a bad idea. As I have said in past, if crypto gets too big, Fiat will never let itself be undermined as that is where government power comes from. They will make every business in many countries pay enormous taxes on every transaction (I'm talking long term future not right now), sure you can always fly to a different a country and spend it I suppose say when buying a new graphics card with it or insert any item of value you want to buy. Even then, when you fly back home, customs will want to know what is in your bag... so I still don't see a way around it though.
> 
> Crypto is a commodity, so the tax on it can go as high they deem necessary. No different than cigarettes having very high tax rates. I expect within 4 years we will see a 45% tax rate on every transaction of crypto from any business on United States soil. Fiat will never let itself be undermined.
> 
> If you can improve your generational wealth through a real estate purchase now, I would say do that first and foremost. That is how true generational stable wealth is created. Every rich family in England, well majority of them, inherited house from this person or that person, and so all the money they made at their regular job was bank. No rent fee = game changer.


I respect thinking and I think before the bubble bursts its just about how much of a profit or how much cash you want from what you've put into it.

I'm very lucky, I know this and I know some are on the opposite side of that and aren't lucky at all, but I think like now for us, being in a position of being able to hold/sale, if something did change and I needed some cash right here and now, I know I'd have little to no worries getting something.  The lack of any debt at all is such an amazing feeling and I think that has been my game changer of late  

Need to buy a bigger house sooner or later...  Might as well try and make things count    As he says in Deadpool, Maximum Effort, before walking off a bridge.......


----------



## Space Lynx (May 7, 2021)

phill said:


> I respect thinking and I think before the bubble bursts its just about how much of a profit or how much cash you want from what you've put into it.
> 
> I'm very lucky, I know this and I know some are on the opposite side of that and aren't lucky at all, but I think like now for us, being in a position of being able to hold/sale, if something did change and I needed some cash right here and now, I know I'd have little to no worries getting something.  The lack of any debt at all is such an amazing feeling and I think that has been my game changer of late
> 
> Need to buy a bigger house sooner or later...  Might as well try and make things count    As he says in Deadpool, Maximum Effort, before walking off a bridge.......



Yep, try not to hold out for a giant manor is all I am saying. Guess what, if fiat busts and crypto busts, so what if you own your own land and house 100% paid for.   You can weather any storm if your land allows you to put a small greenhouse there too and grow veggies, etc. Real estate is the ultimate form of currency. 

That's true wealth there. The land owners of history are the ones who forge all currencies and has been since as far as I can remember reading any of the history books.


----------



## R-T-B (May 7, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I'm still of the mindset that hodling long term is a bad idea.


And you might be right.  But at this point it's risk vs reward for me.  As my total investment is low, I literally have very little to lose.  And my potential reward is much larger with holding.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 7, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> And you might be right.  But at this point it's risk vs reward for me.  As my total investment is low, I literally have very little to lose.  And my potential reward is much larger with holding.



My advice varies person to person honestly, for example, if you already own your own land and house 100% (not a renter) and it's fully paid for, hey knock yourself out and throw the other money around (just don't borrow any or risk losing the house).  Real estate is king and always will be. lol

I mean if you think you have a chance of getting ahead in life, with not much risk if you lose what you are investing, then go for it. I never said that was bad. I simply think if you want long term flourishment, make sure you cash out and get real estate to make that long term flourishment possible. Don't hodl trying to become a millionaire. Again, my advice varies person to person, but has same general theme. lol


----------



## trog100 (May 7, 2021)

in the end if things really do go apesh-t.. it will be might is right.. owning land or a house wont be worth f-ck all unless you have the power to keep it..

your thinking lynx only goes half way there..

i own my own house all my downstairs windows are brick proof polycaronate.. but i do know that if the bad guys want to rob me they will.. the brick proof windows are a direct result of the last time they did.. he he

i have an interesting video of the little sh-t actually doing it.. he climbed over my six foot high fence sauntered up to my kitchen window chucked a brick thru it climbed in did some robbing and was away all within five minutes.. he got nicked but that didnt help me.. he he

the brick proof windows may help the next time though... he he

trog

ps.. this happened at 9 am in the morning.. the little sh-t knew i had gone away the night before.. i watched him doing it from my RV/caravan 200 miles away.. he he


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 7, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> And you might be right.  But at this point it's risk vs reward for me.  As my total investment is low, I literally have very little to lose.  And my potential reward is much larger with holding.



If it crashes, and I mean really crashes I will be a very sad person. But I bought all my BTC way, way back and used BTC to buy all the other crypto's I have. So I guess ultimately I will only be down my investment in BTC...however the unrealized loss would be staggering.

Was just reading about a guy who invested 400K in ETH @.8 way back. Can you imagine having the balls to drop 400k on something worth .8 and super volatile. That's 320,000 ETH and he is now worth $1.12B.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 7, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> If it crashes, and I mean really crashes I will be a very sad person. But I bought all my BTC way, way back and used BTC to buy all the other crypto's I have. So I guess ultimately I will only be down my investment in BTC...however the unrealized loss would be staggering.
> 
> Was just reading about a guy who invested 400K in ETH @.8 way back. Can you imagine having the balls to drop 400k on something worth .8 and super volatile. That's 320,000 ETH and he is now worth $1.12B.



This is no different than betting big on stock market or other investments, those who are already rich get richer (more you can risk losing bigger gains you might get).  Also, I think you have the right way of thinking about it for your particular self.



trog100 said:


> in the end if things really do go apesh-t.. it will be might is right.. owning land or a house wont be worth f-ck all unless you have the power to keep it..
> 
> your thinking lynx only goes half way there..
> 
> ...



Yep, investment into those motion detect/send video feed to phone cameras is priceless.  Cost very little to boot.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 7, 2021)

trog100 said:


> in the end if things really do go apesh-t.. it will be might is right.. owning land or a house wont be worth f-ck all unless you have the power to keep it..
> 
> your thinking lynx only goes half way there..
> 
> ...



Land is an interesting topic.  What most of us plebes think of ownership of land is actually based on Feudalism.  Serfs were allowed to live on and farm land, in exchange for paying the Duke or Lord a rent.  

Eventually this rent morphed into something else.  A property tax.

Land is one of the few forms of wealth that can legally be taken from you if you do not pay to keep it.

Just saying..


----------



## Space Lynx (May 7, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Land is an interesting topic.  What most of us plebes think of ownership of land is actually based on Feudalism.  Serfs were allowed to live on and farm land, in exchange for paying the Duke or Lord a rent.
> 
> Eventually this rent morphed into something else.  A property tax.
> 
> ...



Yeah but property tax is directly correlated to the incomes of your local area. So as long as you buy a modest home, for example our property tax is 750 bucks  ayear and we have a decent chunk of land, government wouldn't be able to triple that over night, because it would bankrupt most people around here. Also, the city council of your local town/county sets the property tax value not the Feds.  So people would be in uproar and vote those local people out of office if they raised it to high.

So real estate is still the best option for long term security/flourishment. Yeah if you go buy a 500 grand home, then have bad fortune down the road you might lose it all true. That's why you always stick with modesty, and stack the rest and retire early. As I have been saying all along.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 7, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Yeah but property tax is directly correlated to the incomes of your local area. So as long as you buy a modest home, for example our property tax is 750 bucks  ayear and we have a decent chunk of land, government wouldn't be able to triple that over night, because it would bankrupt most people around here. Also, the city council of your local town/county sets the property tax value not the Feds.  So people would be in uproar and vote those local people out of office if they raised it to high.
> 
> So real estate is still the best option for long term security/flourishment. Yeah if you go buy a 500 grand home, then have bad fortune down the road you might lose it all true. That's why you always stick with modesty, and stack the rest and retire early. As I have been saying all along.



I agree, but if TSHTF property is not safe.

What's the property tax on your house if its value goes to $1 Million.  $10 million?  $100 million?

And taxes themselves are not constant.  They increase all the time.  Top tax rate in 1913 when income taxes were passed in the US were 7%.  Property taxes all over the US have been going up in the same manner for many years.  About the only place you can escape that and preserve your wealth in property is...  California.

California is an interesting one.  Lived there for 2 1/2 years.  Despite its reputation as a progressive / liberal state, Taxation in California is entirely regressive, it's almost all use \ consumption tax and income tax which is to say it taxes the poor and middle class to death and can leave the _*truly *_wealthy -  I mean people who have enough that they have to work another day in their life to live a decent life - relatively unscathed if they are smart.  That's because of their property tax system.  

Prop 13 in CA (from 1975) :

1. limited property taxes to one percent of full cash value

2. *required property to be valued at its value on March 1, 1975 or on the date it changes hands* or is constructed after that date.

3. *limited subsequent value adjustment in value to 2 percent per year or the rate of inflation, whichever is lesser.*

4. prohibited the imposition of sales or transaction taxes on the sale of real estate.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 7, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> I agree, but if TSHTF property is not safe.
> 
> What's the property tax on your house if its value goes to $1 Million.  $10 million?  $100 million?
> 
> ...




I feel like there are to many poor people in my area for that value to ever increase too much, but I get your point generationally speaking.

and I had no idea about that regarding California property taxes... lol we pay more in property taxes here by a lot in redneck area I live in, very far right wing state. boy I tell you, both parties are a scam.  part of me hopes Crypto does go to the moon now. that's pathetic.

oddly enough the ancient Stoics believed in a single cosmopolitan society, no single nation state but a citizen of Earth mentality. crypto is the only thing that can actually make that dream come true. still, I feel it's to late for me to invest the tiny amount I could, it just wouldn't generate enough to be worth the tax forms I'd have to fill out next year. so I still think I will pass sadly.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 7, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I feel like there are to many poor people in my area for that value to ever increase too much, but I get your point generationally speaking.
> 
> and I had no idea about that regarding California property taxes... lol we pay more in property taxes here by a lot in redneck area I live in, very far right wing state. boy I tell you, both parties are a scam.  part of me hopes Crypto does go to the moon now. that's pathetic.
> 
> oddly enough the ancient Stoics believed in a single cosmopolitan society, no single nation state but a citizen of Earth mentality. crypto is the only thing that can actually make that dream come true. still, I feel it's to late for me to invest the tiny amount I could, it just wouldn't generate enough to be worth the tax forms I'd have to fill out next year. so I still think I will pass sadly.



Yes they are (a scam).  I've lived in a lot of states, Tennessee, Florida, Virginia, Wisconsin, California, and Texas.  The so-called "liberal" states have taxation that is the most regressive, meaning it taxes consumption and wages including things like making you pay for a bag at the grocery store, or an extra +10c for a bottle of soda because plastic / recycling or some such excuse.   It cost me $800 use tax back in 2008 just to bring my car into CA, on top of the normal fees.   The "conservative" states tend to tax wealth via high property tax, and have lower consumption and wage taxes.  So it's actually quite 'livable' to be lower 50% income in most red states, while the blue states have their armies of homeless.


----------



## R-T-B (May 7, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> The so-called "liberal" states have taxation that is the most regressive, meaning it taxes consumption and wages including things like making you pay for a bag at the grocery store


Washintonian here chiming in, the grocery store is doing this to you, not us.  They are "punishing" Washington for banning plastic bags and forcing reusables.  According to them, the price you are paying is to "buy" the reusable bag you forgot to bring.

There are also banned from levying this fee to people on social security, they have to pocket it.  Not sure I'd call any of that regressive.



RandallFlagg said:


> while the blue states have their armies of homeless.


Could be because we fund the food banks.

Making this blindly partisan is stupid though.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 7, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Washintonian here chiming in, the grocery store is doing this to you, not us.  They are "punishing" Washington for banning plastic bags and forcing reusables.  According to them, the price you are paying is to "buy" the reusable bag you forgot to bring.
> 
> There are also banned from levying this fee to people on social security, they have to pocket it.  Not sure I'd call any of that regressive.
> 
> ...



I don't think he was making it partisan, just explaining his experience.  Red states due tend to have lower taxes that benefit the poor, lower gas prices, lower food prices. Which does help the poor more. That being said I went to the grocery store two days ago, pound of beef is now 7.50... it used to be 3.99 less than two years ago... milk, everything has skyrocketed... insane. it's much much cheaper to go eat at dollar menu at fast food...

scary times.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 7, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Washintonian here chiming in, the grocery store is doing this to you, not us.  They are "punishing" Washington for banning plastic bags and forcing reusables.  According to them, the price you are paying is to "buy" the reusable bag you forgot to bring.
> 
> There are also banned from levying this fee to people on social security, they have to pocket it.  Not sure I'd call any of that regressive.



If you don't think that is regressive, then you do not know what a regressive tax is.

If I make 10 million / year, I don't give a rats ass about spending an extra 1.00 a week on grocery bags - it is 0.0000052% of my income.
I also don't care about paying $15/day in tollway fees.  $15/day for 240 "working days" (If I work) is 3600/year or 0.036% of my income
I also don't care about paying paying an extra 2.5% sales tax on what I buy, since what I buy is a small part of my income.  If I spend 50,000 per year on consumption locally, this comes out to $1250 per year extra which is .0125% of my income.  Negligible.
What I will care about is paying an extra 1.5% property tax every year on my $30 million home.  That comes out to $450,000 / year.  It's a good thing I don't live in Texas.

If I make $40,000 a year, spending $52/year on grocery bags is .13% of my income.  I begin to care.
If I spend $5000 a year on consumption items, the extra 2.5% sales tax is $125 or 0.3125% of my income.  Its 25X larger percentage of my income than the guy making 10mil / year pays spending 10X what I spend.
Spending $15/day in tollway fees is 9% of my income.  This is impactful.
At $40k/year I can't afford a house in CA at this wage.  It's a good thing I live in California or I'd have to pay those high Texas property taxes..




R-T-B said:


> Could be because we fund the food banks.
> 
> Making this blindly partisan is stupid though.



Cali has the largest below the poverty line population in the USA when you adjust it for cost of living.  That is why they have so many homeless.  It's nearly one in five.  









						PolitiFact - TRUE: California has the nation’s highest poverty rate, when factoring in cost-of-living
					

California’s job and economic growth has outpaced much of the nation in recent years. That growth, however, has not elim




					www.politifact.com
				






lynx29 said:


> I don't think he was making it partisan, just explaining his experience.  Red states due tend to have lower taxes that benefit the poor, lower gas prices, lower food prices. Which does help the poor more. That being said I went to the grocery store two days ago, pound of beef is now 7.50... it used to be 3.99 less than two years ago... milk, everything has skyrocketed... insane. it's much much cheaper to go eat at dollar menu at fast food...
> 
> scary times.



Wut.. I need to go to the grocery store, wife does that normally but the bill has been high.  Last time I payed attention I thought beef was like $1.75 / lb or something.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 7, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Wut.. I need to go to the grocery store, wife does that normally but the bill has been high.  Last time I payed attention I thought beef was like $1.75 / lb or something.



nope I looked at all of the packages, every single one measured 1 or 1.2 pounds, and the price tag was 6 even for the 1 pound 80/20, but 7.50 for the 90/10.  still prices have gone insane.

I won't be surprised if entire civilization collapses within ten years honestly. when you calculate in more climate disasters and mass migrations incoming faster than anyone expected, and left wing government opening their arms wide in declaring areas emergency and needing of aid... we can only print and raise the debt ceiling for so long before this big experiment of never paying back our debt collapses. we haven't even paid for the wars we did in the 90's.... not sure why I am the only one alarmed by this fact. lol

imagine if monarchies of old could just have endless wars and print money out of thin air, making sure a certain part of the population stayed slaves for min wage (their equivalent of agriculture workers in monarchy times cause on min wage all you can afford to do is eat anyway)  King Henry VIII would have had one hell of a time. lol


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 7, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> imagine if monarchies of old could just have endless wars and print money out of thin air, making sure a certain part of the population stayed slaves for min wage (their equivalent of agriculture workers in monarchy times cause on min wage all you can afford to do is eat anyway)  King Henry VIII would have had one hell of a time. lol



That kind of brings us back to topic  

Many many have tried fiat currencies in the past, even Rome tried it and it failed over the course of a hundred years or so.  I would imagine that very few people are aware that our currency has only been 'fiat' for a little under 40 years  50 years.  Most of what I've read about fiat currency is that they can in fact last a long time - many decades and even a few centuries. 

Found this bit of information :

“According to a study of 775 fiat currencies by DollarDaze.org, there is no historical precedence for a fiat currency that has succeeded in holding its value.
...
_The average life expectancy for a fiat currency is 27 years_, with the shortest life span being one month. Founded in 1694, the British pound Sterling is the oldest fiat currency in existence. At a ripe old age of 317 years it must be considered a highly successful fiat currency. However, success is relative. The British pound was defined as 12 ounces of silver, so it’s worth less than 1/200 or 0.5% of its original value. In other words, the most successful long standing currency in existence has lost 99.5% of its value.”


----------



## R-T-B (May 7, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> If you don't think that is regressive, then you do not know what a regressive tax is.


Presumably, not something levied by the grocery store?

I think the key word was "tax"



RandallFlagg said:


> If I make $40,000 a year, spending $52/year on grocery bags is


Hoarding.  Another key word was "reusable"

Also the bags cost 5 cents.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 7, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Presumably, not something levied by the grocery store?
> 
> I think the key word was "tax"
> 
> ...



There is an excuse for every regressive tax out there, usually pitting environmentalists or some other such group against the well-being of working class and poor.  Every time I have looked into such things, and sometimes just by happenstance, it all comes to money.  

The pulp and paper industry in your state supported the tax, now didn't they.   And the cost of the bag is taxed, isn't it.  So a big industry in WA state, and the Gov't, get more money - mostly from poor people.  You can color it any way you like but that is the bottom line.  It is a regressive tax in alignment with a big state industry.

It amazes me that people actually think politicians are altruistic.  Everything comes down to money and power, that's the only reason these people every do anything, red or blue.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 7, 2021)

I think you both are getting away from the bigger picture and issue here, don't let small arguments about bags distract you from the core problems that effect everyone.

off-topic:  hard drive prices have skyrocketed... looks like Chia is taking off after all... sigh.  when will this nightmare end...


----------



## 64K (May 8, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> we haven't even paid for the wars we did in the 90's.... not sure why I am the only one alarmed by this fact. lol



You are not the only one my friend. I bring this up from time to time. How foolish our government is for playing "World Police" and putting it all on National Debt. The USA spent around 6 trillion dollars on wars in the Middle East and trying to turn countries into Democracies that never wanted to be Democracies to begin with. Something had to be done about Al Qaeda but it could have been done for much, much less than that amount. We do have Special Forces. Not only have we not repaid that debt but we have added trillions and trillions onto the National Debt since then. When I bring the National Debt up to people they just stare at me with a dull look on their face.

I needed to put in that last paragraph to point out that if the world's economies do go to shit then I don't think crypto-currency is a hedge to save your own butt. How is anyone going to use it if you have no internet because of chaos? I don't ever advise anyone to buy or sell anything in the markets but I do advise people to buy some easily identifiable gold such as American Gold Eagles. Gold has always been considered money since history began. In fact it's the only real money. Just don't go overboard on it. No more than 5% of your investments and don't buy Gold ETFs. That's nothing but gold on paper. It will be worthless if the economy goes down the drain. Buy physical gold. Our brains are hard-wired to desire gold. It and things that can be bartered for necessities in order to live will be money if things actually do get that bad.


----------



## MentalAcetylide (May 8, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Fiat will never let itself be undermined.


As much as I would hate to ever see it happen, it can and will happen. Given how currency is printed and not backed by anything, its only a matter of time; especially with how intertwined and dependent economies have become on each other. Also, big businesses and many of the wealthy who control such businesses want globalization. You can't really do it(at least nicely) when there exists a bunch of different currencies with different value tied to its respective economy. 

"Evil evil from cracks they teem,
When will you wake from this nightmarish dream"


----------



## phill (May 8, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Yep, try not to hold out for a giant manor is all I am saying. Guess what, if fiat busts and crypto busts, so what if you own your own land and house 100% paid for.   You can weather any storm if your land allows you to put a small greenhouse there too and grow veggies, etc. Real estate is the ultimate form of currency.
> 
> That's true wealth there. The land owners of history are the ones who forge all currencies and has been since as far as I can remember reading any of the history books.


The joys of owning your own home, regardless of where it might be...  You save a chunk of cash each month and you can live smiling that every year more or less, you house price has risen...  

I don't know of anything more profitable than Eth mining at the moment, obviously depending on the size of what you have but if you could cover your electric with a single 0.1 payout of coin and then maybe make a coin (1.0) on top of that, you are in effect earning 1000%..   I don't believe there's anything you can currently buy/invest in etc. that is anywhere near close.  Savings account, shares and such, I don't believe come close to 10% returns on most of it, obviously there's exceptions but still....  What's spending some electric on your PC (can even run WCG or Rosetta whilst you've got it on!  hint  ) and make some money from it?


----------



## 64K (May 8, 2021)

phill said:


> The joys of owning your own home, regardless of where it might be...  You save a chunk of cash each month and you can live smiling that every year more or less, you house price has risen...
> 
> I don't know of anything more profitable than Eth mining at the moment, obviously depending on the size of what you have but if you could cover your electric with a single 0.1 payout of coin and then maybe make a coin (1.0) on top of that, you are in effect earning 1000%..   I don't believe there's anything you can currently buy/invest in etc. that is anywhere near close.  Savings account, shares and such, I don't believe come close to 10% returns on most of it, obviously there's exceptions but still....  What's spending some electric on your PC (can even run WCG or Rosetta whilst you've got it on!  hint  ) and make some money from it?



There's nothing wrong with mining crypto for profit but be smart about it. It's what investors call "paper profits" or "unrealized gains". You haven't actually made any profit or "realized gains" until you sell or trade the crypto for goods and services. Until then you can show thousands and perhaps millions of dollars of profit on paper but until you sell or trade for goods and services you haven't actually made a cent of profit.


----------



## phill (May 8, 2021)

64K said:


> There's nothing wrong with mining crypto for profit but be smart about it. It's what investors call "paper profits" or "unrealized gains". You haven't actually made any profit or "realized gains" until you sell or trade the crypto for goods and services. Until then you can show thousands and perhaps millions of dollars of profit on paper but until you sell or trade for goods and services you haven't actually made a cent of profit.


Completely agree, which is why we are being smart about it...  Well, hopefully


----------



## MentalAcetylide (May 8, 2021)

phill said:


> The joys of owning your own home, regardless of where it might be...  You save a chunk of cash each month and you can live smiling that every year more or less, you house price has risen...
> 
> I don't know of anything more profitable than Eth mining at the moment, obviously depending on the size of what you have but if you could cover your electric with a single 0.1 payout of coin and then maybe make a coin (1.0) on top of that, you are in effect earning 1000%..   I don't believe there's anything you can currently buy/invest in etc. that is anywhere near close.  Savings account, shares and such, I don't believe come close to 10% returns on most of it, obviously there's exceptions but still....  What's spending some electric on your PC (can even run WCG or Rosetta whilst you've got it on!  hint  ) and make some money from it?


That is a good idea. Unfortunately, on the flip side of the coin too many at this point are taking it to the extremes and don't realize that the opportunity to "go all in and profit" has already left the port and sailed away. They see it as an easy way to get rich and don't understand the potential risks/costs.


----------



## trog100 (May 8, 2021)

my latest nicehash estimated daily earning are $180 dollars.. the 5 pm four hourly payout was just over $20 dollars..

did anybody mention the price of graphics cards coming down.. he he

trog


----------



## sepheronx (May 8, 2021)

trog100 said:


> my latest nicehash estimated daily earning are $180 dollars.. the 5 pm four hourly payout was just over $20 dollars..
> 
> did anybody mention the price of graphics cards coming down.. he he
> 
> trog



Yeah, I am at about $45 a day now.  From $25.  So yeah, its nice!


----------



## trog100 (May 8, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Yeah, I am at about $45 a day now.  From $25.  So yeah, its nice!



yes.. as the price of eth goes up the mining rewards seem to go up with it.. but so does the cost of the hardware to do it.. 

how high eth will go is yet to be seen..  something has to limit the world and his dog from becoming crypto miners the cost and lack of hardware seems to be the limiter.. 

i aint so sure i would buy into its at the current costs..

trog


----------



## sepheronx (May 8, 2021)

trog100 said:


> yes.. as the price of eth goes up the mining rewards seem to go up with it.. but so does the cost of the hardware to do it..
> 
> how high eth will go is yet to be seen..  something has to limit the world and his dog from becoming crypto miners the cost and lack of hardware seems to be the limiter..
> 
> ...


I got two full PC's on order and waiting to see which one comes first:

Alienware R10 with a RTX 3080

or

MSI Tident X (Open box) with a RTX 3080.  

In either case, I will be throwing a GTX 980ti into one or the other and play games with will my rtx 3080 is mining.  The other machine that comes last will be canceled or returned for my money back.


----------



## trog100 (May 8, 2021)

i have problems running anything 3D after running the nicehash miner.. nothing 3D works unless i do a clean re-install of the nvidia drivers.. i think the nicehash software does something to the nvidia drivers.. a clean re-install wipes whatever it does.. i have two desktop machines both behave in exactly the same way.. so it isnt a fluke.. 

trog


----------



## sepheronx (May 8, 2021)

trog100 said:


> i have problems running anything 3D after running the nicehash miner.. nothing 3D works unless i do a clean re-install of the nvidia drivers.. i think the nicehash software does something to the nvidia drivers.. a clean re-install wipes whatever it does.. i have two desktop machines both behave in exactly the same way.. so it isnt a fluke..
> 
> trog



thats why I got them on different systems.  The machine I am typing on is my custom build with a 6800xt.  No issues in 3D after setting to default, but that is because I am not using quickminer on this machine (cant).

Once I get the other machine and pull the GPU out of it and replace it with another, the mining machine is for permanent mining use.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 8, 2021)

ETH at 3900... if I had started mining with my 6800 nov 25th when I got it, and hodl'd all my ETH....  

will 6 months from now I be saying the same thing? If I had started today and hodl'd....  ugh... crap... I hate all of this so much. it's driving me insane.


----------



## sepheronx (May 8, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> ETH at 3900... if I had started mining with my 6800 nov 25th when I got it, and hodl'd all my ETH....
> 
> will 6 months from now I be saying the same thing? If I had started today and hodl'd....  ugh... crap... I hate all of this so much. it's driving me insane.



it isn't too late.  Just load up nicehash, run it when you dont want to use your PC.  Just make sure you modify it in wattman.


----------



## trog100 (May 8, 2021)

lynx.. the amount you could have made from a single 6800 would not be exactly life changing so best forget about it.. 

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (May 8, 2021)

trog100 said:


> lynx.. the amount you could have made from a single 6800 would not be exactly life changing so best forget about it..
> 
> trog



true, I just did the math... it would have been around 1 grand even for 6 months of mining after taxes, fees, electricity.  eh.  I think I will pass for now AMD just isn't worth mining on.  that being said I'm hoping to sell my 6800 if I somehow get super lucky again on 3080 ti launch day. doubt I do, but I never expected to get a 5600x and 6800 on their launch days either... lol


----------



## scoutingwraith (May 8, 2021)

I am semi happy I cashed out the 1st surge way back a few years back. Helped finance house as well for this


----------



## R-T-B (May 8, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> There is an excuse for every regressive tax out there


Those weren't really baseless excuses.

Plus the part about it being levied by the grocery store sort of sinks your entire arguement, because that means it's not a "tax."



lynx29 said:


> off-topic: hard drive prices have skyrocketed... looks like Chia is taking off after all... sigh. when will this nightmare end...


I would not expect it to last if it has.  But I guess anything is possible in this crazy fomo environment.


----------



## trog100 (May 8, 2021)

well eth is now at 4000 with bitcoin not quite able to break that 60K barrier.. maybe tomorrow it will it has to soon.. he he

my last four hourly nicehash payout was a ridiculous $26.50.. 

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (May 8, 2021)

i still don't understand the value of Ethereum personally, says it can be used for contracts etc... but I don't see any big players actually using it for contracts...


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 8, 2021)

Just for the record, I don't think bitcoin is


R-T-B said:


> Those weren't really baseless excuses.


Ya, they are.


R-T-B said:


> Plus the part about it being levied by the grocery store sort of sinks your entire arguement, because that means it's not a "tax."



You pay sales tax on that bag don't you?  And the business has no choice but to sell the bag, they can't give it to the customer as a value add like they've been doing.  

And poor people don't really use less bags than high income / wealthy people.  Probably more.  Just walk into a local quick stop and see who is buying soda, chips and a hot dog.  They're not driving Audis.






						Paper bag fees | Washington Department of Revenue
					






					dor.wa.gov


----------



## R-T-B (May 9, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> You pay sales tax on that bag don't you?


No.  Pretty sure if there's a sales tax they don't mention it anyways.



RandallFlagg said:


> And the business has no choice but to sell the bag, they can't give it to the


They can, they don't.  We actually had to force them to stop charging for those using foodstamps with additional legislation.

You can also bring your own reusable bag anytime.



RandallFlagg said:


> They're not driving Audis.


No it's the pacific northwest dawg, we all drive old subarus.



lynx29 said:


> i still don't understand the value of Ethereum personally, says it can be used for contracts etc... but I don't see any big players actually using it for contracts...


Pretty much all of the stablecoins (what banks are interested in) are ethereum smart contracts.


----------



## phill (May 9, 2021)

trog100 said:


> well eth is now at 4000 with bitcoin not quite able to break that 60K barrier.. maybe tomorrow it will it has to soon.. he he
> 
> my last four hourly nicehash payout was a ridiculous $26.50..
> 
> trog


It's getting to the point now I'm wondering if it will ever burst the bubble but either ways, I'm far from unhappy being in it     There's always the what if type questions/answers, but unless you do something about it, it's pointless even worrying about it  

With your payouts @trog100 does Nicehash take much of that in a fee at all?


----------



## moproblems99 (May 9, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Yeah, I am at about $45 a day now.  From $25.  So yeah, its nice!


What's your hash rate?


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 9, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> No.  Pretty sure if there's a sales tax they don't mention it anyways.



I actually linked to your states tax revenue site.  You are clearly ignorant on the subject and are talking our your rear.   There's not even much information there, just the note about taxes..

From the link I provided, emphasis added :

Is the paper bag fee subject to retail sales tax?​*Yes.* *The charge to customers for paper bags is a retail sale, subject to retail sales tax and the retailing B&O tax. *


----------



## hat (May 9, 2021)

I find it very strange that Ethereum is growing at such a rate but bitcoin is staying put...


----------



## Zach_01 (May 9, 2021)

ETH is going through some changes. I believe we will see a lot more in the future (2022~23) when all switch to ETH2.0.


----------



## sepheronx (May 9, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> What's your hash rate?


300 or so.


----------



## R-T-B (May 9, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> actually linked to your states tax revenue site. You are clearly ignorant on the subject and are talking our your rear.


I admitted such by saying "pretty sure."  As in, I was implying I was not certain.

I just know where I shop (safeway/albertsons owned) it's a nickle and that's it.  Probably tax is rolled up in there on the total or something...  But that's the sales tax we do for everything and anything.  It's still the store charging the fee.

I'm done with this line of discussion though because it's both fruitless and OT.



hat said:


> I find it very strange that Ethereum is growing at such a rate but bitcoin is staying put...


Personally I would not find it at all weird if ethers market cap exceeds bitcoin in the near future.


----------



## Zach_01 (May 9, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Personally I would not find it at all weird if ethers market cap exceeds bitcoin in the near future.


Could...

A few months back ETH cap was less than 20% of BTC’s. Now is around 43%.
And last ETH 24h volume is around 80% of BTC’s.


----------



## trog100 (May 9, 2021)

money must be flowing into etherium at a great rate of knots.. in that sense bitcoin is doing well just holding where it is..

the last six of my nicehash four hourly payouts have been over $20 dollars.. mind you thats all being fed into bitcoin.. perhaps it shouldnt be.. 

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (May 9, 2021)

Elon Musk joked about hustling Dogecoin, went from 70 cents a coin to 38 cents over night.... wow... pathetic.

RobinHood shut off all transactions as well cause of this... but they said it was an "outage"  I've said it once and I'll say it again, crypto is kind of a scam, where the rich have fun with the poor because of no regulations.


----------



## Zach_01 (May 9, 2021)

Scam? Because of dip? Those are opportunities to buy more, not sell. If people don't understand it already and are in for quick profits, or they don't like occasional wallet shrinks then they should stay out of it or stay and learn by mistakes.
It should be affordable mistakes and not betting their lives upon it. This is a "rule" exist from decades.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 9, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> Scam? Because of dip? Those are opportunities to buy more, not sell. If people don't understand it already and are in for quick profits, or they don't like occasional wallet shrinks then they should stay out of it or stay and learn by mistakes.
> It should be affordable mistakes and not betting their lives upon it. This is a "rule" exist from decades.



Go buy some dogecoin then


----------



## trog100 (May 9, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Elon Musk joked about hustling Dogecoin, went from 70 cents a coin to 38 cents over night.... wow... pathetic.
> 
> RobinHood shut off all transactions as well cause of this... but they said it was an "outage"  I've said it once and I'll say it again, crypto is kind of a scam, where the rich have fun with the poor because of no regulations.



its time you wized up and realized that regulations are made by the rich to suit the rich.. 

the doggy meme coin has just taken a big hit.. worse in 24 hours on coinranking..

trog


----------



## Metroid (May 9, 2021)

The bubble is about to pop anytime soon whale will start taking rpofits then everything will go to hehell, i still think btc will go to 79k then back to 10k, there will be a last bulltrap before everything goes to hehell.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 9, 2021)

Metroid said:


> The bubble is about to pop anytime soon whale will start taking rpofits then everything will go to hehell, i still think btc will go to 79k then back to 10k, there will be a last bulltrap before everything goes to hehell.



Yellen and IMF have been silent for awhile now, I expect them to work together on something soon. Heavy taxes, and any trade deals with United States will call for the other country in the trade deal to also tax crypto heavily. I think this will happen, when fiat sees a new way to make extra money they tend to go for it. 



trog100 said:


> its time you wized up and realized that regulations are made by the rich to suit the rich..
> 
> the doggy meme coin has just taken a big hit.. worse in 24 hours on coinranking..
> 
> trog



I get that. but there is also regulation to help prevent it at a blatant/brutal level.  crypto has nothing preventing that level of it. I would say there are different levels of scam... dogecoin is perhaps the top.


----------



## trog100 (May 9, 2021)

Metroid said:


> The bubble is about to pop anytime soon whale will start taking rpofits then everything will go to hehell, i still think btc will go to 79k then back to 10k, there will be a last bulltrap before everything goes to hehell.



you my friend are just a crypto troll.. now if you were talking about the stock and bond markets i might agree with you.. he he

trog

ps.. the other thing some americans need to wize up on is.. the US aint the top dog any more.. china is.. soon china will stop working hard and swapping what they make for the soon to be worthless US dollars.. when that happens top dog status  will be pretty obvious..


----------



## freeagent (May 9, 2021)

Still kinda kicking myself for not having the foresight to get into it sooner. Now that I want to test the waters, the cost of admission is to high for this guy. Bummer dude.. I like money as much as the next guy.


----------



## trog100 (May 9, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Still kinda kicking myself for not having the foresight to get into it sooner. Now that I want to test the waters, the cost of admission is to high for this guy. Bummer dude.. I like money as much as the next guy.



yep the cost of entry has gone up somewhat..

trog


----------



## moproblems99 (May 9, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Still kinda kicking myself for not having the foresight to get into it sooner. Now that I want to test the waters, the cost of admission is to high for this guy. Bummer dude.. I like money as much as the next guy.


If you were closer I would part with with my 4 x 580 rig quite cheap.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 9, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Yellen and IMF have been silent for awhile now, I expect them to work together on something soon. Heavy taxes, and any trade deals with United States will call for the other country in the trade deal to also tax crypto heavily. I think this will happen, when fiat sees a new way to make extra money they tend to go for it.



Pretty sure 2021-2022 will go down as a couple of the worst years in history for markets of all kinds including crypto,  with a possible exception of commodities.  I think Powell wants out fast.   Yellen's crypto problem will likely resolve itself. 

Watch the NASDAQ next week.  I think if it breaks below 12400, the bull market is over, and everything else will follow - including crypto.   I'm pretty sure it's going down hard next week, 12400 is about 1300 points below current level.  I think this might start late Monday, or perhaps Tuesday.  Same thing will happen to bitcoin in short order.  

As far as cryptocurrency long term though - I think Crypto has a real place in the future as a form of official fiat for many reasons.  China has apparently figured this out.  This may be a harbinger for the end of the dollar hegemony.  That will take a while, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a history book in 50 years point to this as the beginning of the end of the dollar reserve system :









						China Creates Its Own Digital Currency, a First for Major Economy
					

A cyber yuan stands to give Beijing power to track spending in real time, plus money unlinked to the global financial system dominated by the dollar. It also could soften the bite of U.S. sanctions.




					www.wsj.com


----------



## Vya Domus (May 9, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> Because of dip? Those are opportunities to buy more, not sell. If people don't understand it already and are in for quick profits, or they don't like occasional wallet shrinks then they should stay out of it or stay and learn by mistakes.



Huh ?

People that buy into something just because there was a dip are morons that are bound to lose a lot, short term as well as long term, because that implies they think everything will have unrestricted growth forever. While investors of traditional assets have some sort of clue as to the tact that infinite growth isn't possible (that's debatable, lot's of morons there as well), crypto enthusiasts clearly don't. Just look at the shitshow that doge is, people unironically still think it will hit 10$ and all sorts of insane predictions that are incompatible with the real world.


----------



## trog100 (May 9, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Huh ?
> 
> People that buy into something just because there was a dip are morons that are bound to lose a lot, short term as well as long term, because that implies they think everything will have unrestricted growth forever. While investors of traditional assets have some sort of clue as to the tact that infinite growth isn't possible (that's debatable, lot's of morons there as well), crypto enthusiasts clearly don't. Just look at the shitshow that doge is, people unironically still think it will hit 10$ and all sorts of insane predictions that are incompatible with the real world.



people who buy the dip dont think forever.. they just know that in a bull market buying the dip aint a bad thing to be doing.. in a bear market things would be different..

having said that if i had left my miners running during the last three year slump period i would now have quite a nice gain to show for it.. maybe a 100K or something like that.. appearing to earn bugger all in dollar terms but mining coin which is now worth a lot.. 

trog


----------



## R0H1T (May 9, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> people unironically still think it will *hit 10$* and all sorts of insane predictions that are incompatible with the real world.


It might still do that, but all it'll prove is that there's at least 15x more idgits on earth than previously imagined


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 9, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Huh ?
> 
> People that buy into something just because there was a dip are morons that are bound to lose a lot, short term as well as long term, because that implies they think everything will have unrestricted growth forever. While investors of traditional assets have some sort of clue as to the tact that infinite growth isn't possible (that's debatable, lot's of morons there as well), crypto enthusiasts clearly don't. Just look at the shitshow that doge is, people unironically still think it will hit 10$ and all sorts of insane predictions that are incompatible with the real world.



Exactly.  People forget the role of psychology. 

Imagine, it's 1996 and you're 40 years old.  You're investing in stocks, relatively conservatively by investing in an index ETF - not trying to stock pick.  And you're not into that frothy NASDAQ stuff, you're investing in the much broader and less volatile S&P 500.  The shares appreciate rapidly.   You are dollar cost averaging by investing a little at a time each month.  By 1999 you are 44 and your retirement at 55 seems secure.  Your stocks have gone up more than double.  You might even be able to retire earlier than 55. 

Then this happens.






Now it is 2009, and you are 53 years old.  You have been doing this for 13 years.  Dollar cost averaging has failed.  Your before inflation returns are negative.  After inflation, you've been decimated.  You've lost your job, which is hard to replace at this  age.  The news says the financial system may collapse.  Gold and commodities are shooting up like a rocket, inflation is ticking up, and there are more wars, and rumors of wars...

It will be around 2012 before you start getting ahead again in non-inflation adjusted numbers, assuming you never sold and you dollar cost averaged over time, if you can hold through all of that.   It's highly unlikely one would hold through that.

There are actually only relatively short periods of time where the markets really beat inflation.  Take a look.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 9, 2021)

You either buy into crypto because you believe in decentralized dream or you are in it for quick bucks.  There isn't much in the middle or you're probably doing it wrong.


----------



## R-T-B (May 9, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> RobinHood shut off all transactions as well cause of this... but they said it was an "outage" I've said it once and I'll say it again, crypto is kind of a scam,


No, RobinHood is.  They did the same thing with GME stock.



Vya Domus said:


> People that buy into something just because there was a dip are morons that are bound to lose a lot,


Cryptos history disagrees with that honestly.  And it's not about believing in unlimited growth.  It's about believing there is massive room for growth still.  And there certainly is.


----------



## Zach_01 (May 9, 2021)

Well, I can’t convince (or proof to) anyone that blockchain and crypto in general are only in the beginning of their growing route. And I can’t suggest to anyone to dive into it. I didn’t do that with anyone, relatives or friends.

Future shall reveal the truth.


----------



## trog100 (May 9, 2021)

i think its all got too big to keep following these three year boom and bust cycles.. i rode thru the last bust and its paying me handsomely now.. 

most folks sell at the slightest sign of a downward trend.. i just forgot about it.. most folks cant do this because the money is important to them.. its not to me i am happy with the money i have and dont really need any more.. the way i look at it now is.. it might make the grand kids rich in twenty years time.. 

having said that a lot can happen in twenty years.. he he

trog


----------



## sepheronx (May 9, 2021)

I put little into buying coins. I use my GPUs to earn me BTC and then others so I can sell.

I have some investments in altcoins. Lost some and gained some.  I always knew that doge was a joke and surprised people kinda went with it. But those who did early on, struck gold now.

I aim at more stable coins like ADA. Also purchased Crypto.com coin for small amounts.  But got most of it in ETH, BTC and ETC.  ADA is the latest one I'm investing in.


----------



## R-T-B (May 9, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> Well, I can’t convince (or proof to) anyone that blockchain and crypto in general are only in the beginning of their growing route. And I can’t suggest to anyone to dive into it. I didn’t do that with anyone, relatives or friends.
> 
> Future shall reveal the truth.


It's all a betting game and none of us are honestly qualified to be giving advice beyond our personal investing preferences.


----------



## trog100 (May 9, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> It's all a betting game and none of us are honestly qualified to be giving advice beyond our personal investing preferences.



true mr frog but some of us know a little more about how things work than others.. he he

trog


----------



## R-T-B (May 9, 2021)

trog100 said:


> true mr frog but some of us know a little more about how things work than others.. he he
> 
> trog


We all think we do.  What the future holds is not ever certain though.

I would argue some of us have more first-hand experience than others though, that's for sure.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 9, 2021)

_Elon Musk
@elonmusk
·
14m
SpaceX launching satellite Doge-1 to the moon next year

– Mission paid for in Doge
– 1st crypto in space
– 1st meme in space

To the mooooonnn!!_

Elon just tweeted the above... Dogecoin went from 43 cents to 58 cents instantly... how is this not highway robbery? To be so blatant and call it a hustle the night before on SNL, and now to tweet that 12 mins ago... like seriously, are there no laws at all that protect people from scammers? lol... sad.

hard to believe this guy started Tesla and solar roof company, he doesn't give a crap about climate change endorsing bitcoin/crypto.


----------



## phill (May 10, 2021)

I do wonder why there's such hate behind Crypto..  I mean, its not like you have to worry about it or get involved with it if you don't want to do so?   

But still, I've done this sort of thing twice now and each time it's been just fun more than anything.  This time it's been more interesting with the way in which stocks are and the rest of the rubbish going on (we don't need to re-hash all that crap - excuse the pun...) but for those not having tried it or just going down the politics route, nothing is going to change over night with this and whilst there's still nothing much in place about you can or can't, just enjoy it.

If you earn money from it, pay your taxes and off you go.  There's so little to worry about    I'm helping a friend out doing what we are doing, I have no issues with it at all.  If everything goes Pete Tong tomorrow, we have a few choices but there's always something else we can try  

What has been funny too me is that I'm a keeper of data, when we started back in 2017 I think, it was about $10 to $15 a coin...  When we started looking at it in the beginning of the year it was just over a $1000 and last week it was about the $2800 marker, now its touching on $4000...  So if you've been able to mine even just a 0.1 of a coin in that time, you cash has gone from $280 to $400..  I'm guessing your electric and such has stayed the same but an extra $120 for literally not much...  What's not too like??


----------



## freeagent (May 10, 2021)

phill said:


> I do wonder why there's such hate behind Crypto..  I mean, its not like you have to worry about it or get involved with it if you don't want to do so?


I would hazard a guess and say those high end cards needed to mine are almost impossible to get a hold of, but a miner will post a pic of 7 of them on his kitchen table like its nothing.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 10, 2021)

phill said:


> What's not too like??


Not having a stack of 3090's to join in the fun for a start.


----------



## trog100 (May 10, 2021)

phill said:


> I do wonder why there's such hate behind Crypto..  I mean, its not like you have to worry about it or get involved with it if you don't want to do so?
> 
> But still, I've done this sort of thing twice now and each time it's been just fun more than anything.  This time it's been more interesting with the way in which stocks are and the rest of the rubbish going on (we don't need to re-hash all that crap - excuse the pun...) but for those not having tried it or just going down the politics route, nothing is going to change over night with this and whilst there's still nothing much in place about you can or can't, just enjoy it.
> 
> ...



coiners and no coiners phil.. the hatred is based on pure envy nothing else.. the no coiners hate themselves for not getting in on the act sooner and are jealous of  those that did..

the green eyed god is a spiteful god.. 

trog


----------



## freeagent (May 10, 2021)

That's kind of a shitty attitude. I don't envy you, I only envy your GPU.


----------



## phill (May 10, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I would hazard a guess and say those high end cards needed to mine are almost impossible to get a hold of, but a miner will post a pic of 7 of them on his kitchen table like its nothing.


You don't need high end cards really, anything works as long as it has the memory for it (if you mine Eth as an example)   I'm still using my 480's I had back in 2017, they are still working.  Granted they aren't very efficient and the hashrates are low, but they are still earning something, even with what I'd call high electric costs (even with solar panels) so depending on the miner, the person might have a brain, they might not.  

You can go over to Reddit and see the mining threads over there with the amount of people running masses of hardware.  It can be done with one card or a hundred, it just depends on the person, the limits, what they can use and so on   Youtube isn't any different sadly.  It all rubs it in peoples faces but we seem to be people who need to show off, get the likes, get the good or bad comments because after all bad comments or recognition is better cos it annoys people right??  Well, in that case, if it bothered people that much, turn down the focus on it and it might go away or might not be such a heated issue.

Well that seems to be what I feel common sense is like...  I suppose kinda like when you were at school and picked on by a bully or whatever.  The more they see it affecting you the more they do it, if they see it doesn't do a damn thing for you, what are they going to do - carry on or leave you alone and find someone else?   Just a bit of thought from me for the day.  Promise I won't do it again


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 10, 2021)

trog100 said:


> coiners and no coiners phil.. the hatred is based on pure envy nothing else.. the no coiners hate themselves for not getting in on the act and are jealous  those that did..
> 
> the green eyed god is a spiteful god..
> 
> trog


I'm pretty meh on the whole Bitcoin thing. Good for those who can make some extra cash from it is all I can say.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 10, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Cryptos history disagrees with that honestly.



That's deceiving and inaccurate. The history of 0.1% of all crypto that managed to survive for at least a couple of years and garner some traction disagrees with that, the rest of the coins that ended up into oblivion throughout all these years don't.

I mean the meme of hodling was literally born from the absolute conviction people have that bitcoin will keep rising in price, i.e infinite growth.



lynx29 said:


> hard to believe this guy started Tesla


He literally did the same with Tesla as well, a company which didn't make a dime in profit until last year is hyped so much that it is now valued more than the top few car manufactures around the world combined.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 10, 2021)

phill said:


> I do wonder why there's such hate behind Crypto..  I mean, its not like you have to worry about it or get involved with it if you don't want to do so?
> 
> But still, I've done this sort of thing twice now and each time it's been just fun more than anything.  This time it's been more interesting with the way in which stocks are and the rest of the rubbish going on (we don't need to re-hash all that crap - excuse the pun...) but for those not having tried it or just going down the politics route, nothing is going to change over night with this and whilst there's still nothing much in place about you can or can't, just enjoy it.
> 
> ...



A) I don't hate crypto miners, I understand from a sociological level that short term human greed is not an easy thing to get rid of, though I would point out it is one of the few things we share with actual animals and the limbic system in general. Our cortex system is what makes us unique, and doesn't necessarily care about short term greed.

B) What's not to like is Bitcoin uses 3-5 countries worth of electricity, and when you add in all other crypto and tokens and the infrastructure for many exchanges around the world, etc it comes closer to 10-40 countries (I can't do all the math but I know its a lot)... keep in mind this is all within last 10-15 years... climate change scientists never calculated this into their equations... yes fiat pollutes too, true, but fiat was going to stay, has been here, and will continue to be here... so defending that argument by stating fiat pollutes to is a null statement... crypto is relatively new all things considered from a geological standpoint in relation to climate change calculations.

C) The hypocrisy of Elon Musk's companies and goals with Tesla, Solar Roof, Powerbank, etc - all climate change things to help long term are negated by his hypocrisy of single handedly giving bitcoin and crypto legitimacy at a corporate and banking level.... it leaves a taste of disgust in my mouth. Disgust we are born with, not culture. I have pure disgust for Elon and his companies now, all hopes for climate change progress have vanished.



trog100 said:


> coiners and no coiners phil.. the hatred is based on pure envy nothing else.. the no coiners hate themselves for not getting in on the act and are jealous  those that did..
> 
> the green eyed god is a spiteful god..
> 
> trog



Not jealousy, but if you can at least do something for climate change, perhaps a local organization near you that does a lot of good things (picking up trash, or anything basic even) consider donating 1% of your wealth to them or that organization before you die someday, that's at least worth a try for making up for the collective failure that is the human species, and hoping that our offspring defeat the limbic system with their cortex more often than not.


----------



## phill (May 10, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> Not having a stack of 3090's to join in the fun for a start.


They are the worst possible card to run on so, be grateful!!


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 10, 2021)

phill said:


> They are the worst possible card to run on so, be grateful!!


Shows how much I know about BC then


----------



## freeagent (May 10, 2021)

It wont always be like this. There will be a time again where miners can mine, and gamers can game, and people in between can just stare at their hardware


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 10, 2021)

freeagent said:


> It wont always be like this. There will be a time again where miners can mine, and gamers can game, and people in between can just stare at their hardware


Yeah. Sometime in the future, in a galaxy far far away.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 10, 2021)

phill said:


> I do wonder why there's such hate behind Crypto..


Because it is causing so many problems the world over. GPU shortage, power grid overloads in area's were power is already at it's peak load, not to mention that the GPU's in question are running full load 24/7, which normally wouldn't happen and that is making problem for power production. Said GPU shortage is causing tech infrastructure problems to the point where businesses who build PC's can't get the parts they need to build system and thus business suffers.

This list goes on. GPU based crypto needs to die, quickly. The rest of cryptocoin I couldn't care less about..


----------



## freeagent (May 10, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> Yeah. Sometime in the future, in a galaxy far far away.


That music is now playing thank you.


----------



## trog100 (May 10, 2021)

lynx i happen to believe that we are but clever monkeys and are motivated (mostly) by monkey like things.. all the rest is simply kidology.. we dont even have the brains to know what we are..

when we figure this last one out we might begin to get somewhere.. 

trog


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 10, 2021)

trog100 said:


> we dont even have the brains to know what we are..


Speak for yourself. I self identify as an RTX 3080.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 10, 2021)

trog100 said:


> lynx i happen to believe that we are but clever monkeys and are motivated (mostly) by monkey like things..


Trog, please refrain from insulting monkeys. It's not very nice...


----------



## phill (May 10, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> Shows how much I know about BC then


To run something like mining, is I don't believe anything much more different than the World Grid Computing or even Folding At Home.  

See its not the case of who's finishing first but what's the most efficient and effective way of doing something.  Example.  3090 we can pick on.  Buy something nearly twice the price of a 3080 or even better a 3070.  The 3090s get very hot with the memory they use (same as the 3080s but not so much...) and produce not a massively great hash rate.  If miners can save a few hundred watts in their systems, they will do so, because it's just eating into their profits.   Having solar panels and batteries etc. to help with the power costs is great plus helps with the environment as well..  But the problem you'll have is some countries are cheap with electric and others are completely over the top expensive for whatever reason (I've no idea, just saying there's always a difference/variance)
Along comes the 3070s...  Half the hash rate of a 3090 say, but less than half of the power used and it costs say for argument, a third or more of the price.  Now if you can get things equally, which are you going to buy??

You don't need to worry about the RAM or TJunction temps in the 3070s because they don't use GDDR6X for a kick off and with that don't have to take apart most cards to get the temps to drop down a bit.  More time and money away from your profits.
The 3060/3070 heck even the 1660 or 1660 Supers and whatever else is out there, are fairly decent to mine on.  They sip the power, they aren't normally so expensive, what's not to like at this point?  I love the hardware whatever I get my hands on, but then it's not just this I can get it too do should my PC/s be on all the time.  
Thing with mining is like with anything, you can control how long it runs or doesn't, it doesn't need to run 24/7 if you don't want it to, just means the profits won't be as much.  If your a gamer who's got some cards, makes some pennies and is able to buy a new card from it eventually, are you telling me you wouldn't give it a try and see how it works for you?....



lexluthermiester said:


> Because it is causing so many problems the world over. GPU shortage, power grid overloads in area's were power is already at it's peak load, not to mention that the GPU's in question are running full load 24/7, which normally wouldn't happen and that is making problem for power production. Said GPU shortage is causing tech infrastructure problems to the point where businesses who build PC's can't get the parts they need to build system and thus business suffers.
> 
> This list goes on. GPU based crypto needs to die, quickly. The rest of cryptocoin I couldn't care less about..


I think that might not be quite 100% the case because of Crypto but I respect the opinion  

I think this pandemic has just amplified all things crappy with things and like GPU sales, items not being in a plentiful stock it's making things hard and harder to get hold of.    

I remember something ages ago which always stuck in my head, was on Top Gear of all things (if its 100% true or not I really don't know) but it's said that here in the UK, we produce just 5% more than what is required for our electric.  So when you think that electric can be/is used for pretty much everything and now even cars of all things, how is that going to affect the infrastructure when everything relies on something that producing takes years to put together, isn't environment friendly and if there's a shortage like now, they'll just charge you more for it.  I mean that's just really does boggle my little brain on a few levels and whilst I'm definitely not a rocket scientist, I do get questions in my head about the whole situation....


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 10, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> _Elon Musk
> @elonmusk
> ·
> 14m
> ...



This happens all the time to stocks.  The so-called "analysts" they have on TV are just selling stuff.  

This is what pissed off the RobinHood users more than anything, little guy hypes something on Reddit and gets investigated, high profile hedge fund manager or TV "Analyst" does it and no one says anything.  In this, I agree with them.  It happens - every - single - day, I've seen it in the past month in things like oil tanker stocks, BDC (Bus development companies), and just last week MLPs which allow you to buy a unit in a trust that owns fixed assets like oil wells and pipelines.

Remember Herbalife?  Bill Ackman went on TV and said it was a pyramid scheme and tried to crash the stock while he was short on the stock.  He ran right into Carl Icahn who was long in the stock.  These are two of the biggest hedge fund twits, er titans, in the business.  They wound up suing each other and it was a big ongoing drama queen shit show.  

The clown Ackman was actually short the stock for 5 years from 2013 - 2019.   Today Herbalife is a $50 stock with $3.74/share earnings with a PE of 13.3 - and that's after it went up by 330% since their drama show about 6 years ago.  That is clearly not a pyramid scheme stock with those kind of earnings after this amount of time.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 10, 2021)

phill said:


> To run something like mining, is I don't believe anything much more different than the World Grid Computing or even Folding At Home.
> 
> See its not the case of who's finishing first but what's the most efficient and effective way of doing something.  Example.  3090 we can pick on.  Buy something nearly twice the price of a 3080 or even better a 3070.  The 3090s get very hot with the memory they use (same as the 3080s but not so much...) and produce not a massively great hash rate.  If miners can save a few hundred watts in their systems, they will do so, because it's just eating into their profits.   Having solar panels and batteries etc. to help with the power costs is great plus helps with the environment as well..  But the problem you'll have is some countries are cheap with electric and others are completely over the top expensive for whatever reason (I've no idea, just saying there's always a difference/variance)
> Along comes the 3070s...  Half the hash rate of a 3090 say, but less than half of the power used and it costs say for argument, a third or more of the price.  Now if you can get things equally, which are you going to buy??
> ...


At today's GPU prices Phill the answer would be no. I'm not willing to pay scalper prices. You could say 'yeah but you're in the minority', that's fine with me.
Now If I did see reasonably priced cards I'd probably jump at the chance. Our Electricity prices have just risen BTW so mining for me alone would probably not be very profitable.

Thanks for the info, I'll keep it on mind should a good mining card come my way.

Edit: I have a 2070 Super and a 980Ti in my posession. I could become one of those scalpers to a degree if I wanted to sell it, but with shortages the 2070 will remain with me unless we see cards coming back in stock. The 980Ti toaster can have a new home though.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 10, 2021)

phill said:


> I think that might not be quite 100% the case because of Crypto but I respect the opinion


Not all cryptocoin, just the GPU based variants..


----------



## phill (May 10, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> At today's GPU prices Phill the answer would be no. I'm not willing to pay scalper prices. You could say 'yeah but you're in the minority', that's fine with me.
> Now If I did see reasonably priced cards I'd probably jump at the chance. Our Electricity prices have just risen BTW so mining for me alone would probably not be very profitable.
> 
> Thanks for the info, I'll keep it on mind should a good mining card come my way.
> ...


I don't pay scalper prices either and I try to only buy from a reputable source or company  

The UK electric prices aren't good but they are still profitable just not as much as if your in the States or in China...  And then it comes to how much you wish to mine, 24/7, 12/3 or whatever it is.  I always would suggest budget for what you can do don't over push just in case.  There's always the off button 

Keep the 2070 and the 980 Ti I'd say...  You never know when a decent GPU might be needed, regardless of the crap going on right now with pricing..  Having that spare just in case is always a bonus   Could always knock up a spare rig and let it run WCG or FAH if you wished to give it a go 



lexluthermiester said:


> Not all cryptocoin, just the GPU based variants..


Again you could just buy it, some prefer to mine it    It's the timing game I think...  Get in at the right time you'll be quids in so to speak...  Trying to get in now?   Wouldn't even bother....


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 10, 2021)

phill said:


> Again you could just buy it, some prefer to mine it  It's the timing game I think... Get in at the right time you'll be quids in so to speak... Trying to get in now? Wouldn't even bother....


I prefer doing PC building, servicing and upgrading business. GPU based cryptocoin is impacting my business and every business like mine in the entire area. I have employees that need to be paid. Mining isn't going to help that.


----------



## freeagent (May 10, 2021)

I just want to play a game with all the eye candy turned up.. 

DLSwhat?

RTHuh?



I honestly don't care if you get your coin on, I just want to play a modern game with modern settings 

Like they say.. we are all in this together


----------



## R-T-B (May 10, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> That's deceiving and inaccurate. The history of 0.1% of all crypto that managed to survive for at least a couple of years and garner some traction disagrees with that


I'm only talking the "big one" which has governed most of the market since day 1.  You can point at shitcoins all you want but they aren't representitive of the market by market cap or any other metric.



lexluthermiester said:


> I prefer doing PC building, servicing and upgrading business. GPU based cryptocoin is impacting my business and every business like mine in the entire area. I have employees that need to be paid. Mining isn't going to help that.


Honest advice?  Adapt.  Offer to build open air mining rigs.  Until this settles, they will sell like hotcakes even at scalper pricing.



phill said:


> Trying to get in now? Wouldn't even bother....


I dunno.  Ether seems set to explode and mining it is only going to get harder.  There is always oportunity there if you look enough.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 10, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Honest advice? Adapt.


Thanks for the tip, and no. There's nothing wrong with our business model.


R-T-B said:


> Offer to build open air mining rigs. Until this settles, they will sell like hotcakes even at scalper pricing.


Frak that... Besides, this would do nothing for the larger economic, infrastructural and environmental problems... I'm not going contribute to the larger problem.


----------



## R-T-B (May 10, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Thanks for the tip, and no. There's nothing wrong with our business model.


Didn't mean to imply there was.  Longevity wise you are on track.  Was just meant as advice to "weather the storm."




lexluthermiester said:


> Frak that... Besides, this would do nothing for the larger economic, infrastructural and environmental problems... I'm not going contribute to the larger problem.


I can totally respect that.  Was just offering the advice for a "business on the brink" situation.  It's best to stick to your moral guns, major props for that regardless of how I feel.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 10, 2021)

phill said:


> I do wonder why there's such hate behind Crypto.. I mean, its not like you have to worry about it or get involved with it if you don't want to do so?



Bitches gonna bitch man.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 10, 2021)

WTF happened to this thread?

So Litecoin just broke $400 and ETH holding $4k, pretty nice day


----------



## moproblems99 (May 10, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> WTF happened to this thread?
> 
> So Litecoin just broke $400 and ETH holding $4k, pretty nice day


You forget.  It is TPU and it involves crypto or gpus.  It is going to be fun.


----------



## R-T-B (May 10, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> WTF happened to this thread?
> 
> So Litecoin just broke $400 and ETH holding $4k, pretty nice day


Meh, you know the camps throw spears at each other regularly.  I like both of the tribes somewhat so it's really confusing for me some days...


----------



## Outback Bronze (May 10, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> WTF happened to this thread?


 Its making for an interesting read nonetheless : )



ZenZimZaliben said:


> ETH holding $4k


 I know its project is far superior than BTC's but to be honest it's like fiat. I can be printed (mined) that has an endless supply. Not like BTC's cap of 21m.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 10, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> You can point at shitcoins all you want but they aren't representitive of the market by market cap or any other metric.


How convenient. Who says so, you ?


----------



## R-T-B (May 10, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> How convenient. Who says so, you ?


Market cap.  It's a metric used by economists well beyond the crypto world.  I didn't just cook it up in my basement.  Bitcoin is by far bigger than any other coin and has always led the market.



Outback Bronze said:


> I know its project is far superior than BTC's but to be honest it's like fiat.


That's not really true.  The code itself is designed to reign in inflation.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 10, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Market cap.  It's a metric used by economists well beyond the crypto world.  I didn't just cook it up in my basement.  Bitcoin is by far bigger than any other coin and has always led the market.


When did I even mention market cap ? I am just pointing out that there are droves of shitcoins that are pumped a couple of times and fall into obscurity, there's money in those too, or rather there used to be. Just because we're not talking about trillions doesn't make them any less relevant. Market evaluations are just that, evaluations, they aren't indicative of how much money has actually been poured into these things. People didn't buy 1 trillion dollar worth of bitcoin, they spent far less than that figure in reality.

Putting blinders on and looking at the top coins and ignoring the shitshow on the side, is again, really disingenuous.


----------



## R-T-B (May 10, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> When did I even mention market cap ?


You don't need to.  If you are talking about the crypto market globally, it's the only sensible metric to use to choose a representative coin.  Yes coins fail.  But they are largely due to low market cap, economically insignificant.


----------



## phill (May 10, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I prefer doing PC building, servicing and upgrading business. GPU based cryptocoin is impacting my business and every business like mine in the entire area. I have employees that need to be paid. Mining isn't going to help that.


Well @R-T-B does bring a good point and depending on how large a 'farm' you'd use, at $4000+ a coin, I'd be surprised at what it wouldn't be able to pay for but as R-T-B says, respect that you don't want to add to the problem, the problem is I don't see it going away any time soon and what with the prices going up, it's just going to continue to grow.  Until that bubble bursts, there's nothing much anyone like us can do.

Lets see what the rest of the week brings


----------



## Vya Domus (May 10, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> But they are largely due to low market cap, economically insignificant.


Strange survivor bias fueled logic, every coin was economically insignificant at some point. That still doesn't change the fact that few made it past that and most didn't. It's as if 90% of the S&P500 would go bust every single year and I am supposed to just pretend everything is alright because some companies made it.

I am trying really hard to extract something useful from your arguments but I can't, you're still telling me to basically just ignore every coin/instrument that crashed and burned because they are irrelevant and they are irrelevant due to low market cap.


----------



## trog100 (May 10, 2021)

well my nicehash estimated daily payout is now showing $140 dollars that is 980$ per week or close to $4000 dollars a month or $47000 dollars per year.. 

will it last.. i havnt a clue but its nice while it does..

having said that my biggest gain so far this year is coming from the crypto i acquired back in 2017/18 and didnt sell.. i repeat didnt sell.. 

bitcoin is still stuck just under 60k.. eth is now just under 4200 and litecoin is showing nice gains and around $400.. litecoin has been lagging but i recon its about to take off..

happy cryptoing or happy hating depending on which camp you are in and may your spears fly true.. he he

trog


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 10, 2021)

phill said:


> I don't pay scalper prices either and I try to only buy from a reputable source or company
> 
> The UK electric prices aren't good but they are still profitable just not as much as if your in the States or in China...  And then it comes to how much you wish to mine, 24/7, 12/3 or whatever it is.  I always would suggest budget for what you can do don't over push just in case.  There's always the off button
> 
> ...



Thanks again Phill,

I've seen the prices of my GPU's go through the roof and was considering selling at least the 980Ti. It's in mint condition and hasn't been tinkered with only repasted. Still, it's hard to let go. I used to buy from Scan but they haven't had cards in for some time, they didn't even reply to my query. 
CCL will drop some returned cards on their clearance page but they are overpriced and usually gone in seconds.

With my very limited knowledge I came across Nicehash and entered my hardware details, the gains were just too low to even consider mining on my hardware.
I would earn around £2.70 a day on the 2070 and a lot less on the 980Ti...Or am I reading it all wrong? I'm in Blighty


----------



## trog100 (May 10, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> Thanks again Phill,
> 
> I've seen the prices of my GPU's go through the roof and was considering selling at least the 980Ti. It's in mint condition and hasn't been tinkered with only repasted. Still, it's hard to let go. I used to buy from Scan but they haven't had cards in for some time, they didn't even reply to my query.
> CCL will drop some returned cards on their clearance page but they are overpriced and usually gone in seconds.
> ...


 
my nicehash daily estimated return is now showing a ridiculous $228  dollars.. all i am gonna say is what you are currently seeing is way low.. how long it stays this way is an unknown..

trog


----------



## R-T-B (May 10, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Strange survivor bias fueled logic,


I'd like to think of it as just averaging things out weighted by market cap, but ok.



Vya Domus said:


> you're still telling me to basically just ignore every coin/instrument that crashed and burned because they are irrelevant and they are irrelevant due to low market cap.


No, I'm telling you if you are investing in crypto, to invest in the big boys or get burned.  The others are a frigging slot machine, and basically say so on the tin.  It's no different than dumping your retirement in a random penny stock.

I mean, technically it's all a bit of a gamble, but no need to add to it IMO.  Just my way of investing.  Some people like a larger gamble though.


----------



## Zach_01 (May 10, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> With my very limited knowledge I came across Nicehash and entered my hardware details, the gains were just too low to even consider mining on my hardware.
> I would earn around £2.70 a day on the 2070 and a lot less on the 980Ti...Or am I reading it all wrong? I'm in Blighty


Nicehash calculator says that a 2070 will gain £4.7 a day minus the electric cost. How much do you pay per KW/h?


----------



## Vya Domus (May 10, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> No, I'm telling you if you are investing in crypto, to invest in the big boys or get burned.


Which also crash from time to time, quite badly. And then you have two kinds of people, those who get burned really bad and those who keep holding based on the aforementioned irrational belief that the price is always going to go back up.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 10, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Which also crash from time to time, quite badly. And then you have two kinds of people, those who get burned really bad and those who keep holding based on the aforementioned irrational belief that the price is always going to go back up.



I think it's fairly stable now, 45 to 60k range I think it stay for many years. Thing is now that big banks and investment firms from BlackRock to Goldman Sachs are involved, they won't let it get to low and ruin their own investments. The big boys can keep it stable, Bitcoin that is. This is key difference then in years past. They see as another diversifying option for their clientele, alongside art work, etc. In case fiat fails.

that being said, I have none and want none.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 10, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I think it's fairly stable now, 45 to 60k range I think it stay for many years. Thing is now that big banks and investment firms from BlackRock to Goldman Sachs are involved, they won't let it get to low and ruin their own investments. The big boys can keep it stable, Bitcoin that is. This is key difference then in years past. They see as another diversifying option for their clientele, alongside art work, etc. In case fiat fails.
> 
> that being said, I have none and want none.


They are stable until they aren't, both ways. Through the nature of the crypto world if a coin becomes stable then it will be abandoned, because people don't want to invest into a coin that will become stable, they want profits. There is no way bitcoin could stay at 60K for years, people would cash out and move on to something else, driving the price down. There are also technical reasons why crypto such as bitcoin simply cannot stay at a fixed price for to long.

Banks and corporations, again, have no interest in making bitcoin stable because they can't do anything with it if that's the case.


----------



## Outback Bronze (May 10, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> people don't want to invest into a coin that will become stable



Then how come Tether (stable coin) is so popular?


----------



## moproblems99 (May 10, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Strange survivor bias fueled logic, every coin was economically insignificant at some point. That still doesn't change the fact that few made it past that and most didn't. It's as if 90% of the S&P500 would go bust every single year and I am supposed to just pretend everything is alright because some companies made it.
> 
> I am trying really hard to extract something useful from your arguments but I can't, you're still telling me to basically just ignore every coin/instrument that crashed and burned because they are irrelevant and they are irrelevant due to low market cap.


Phew.  Good things banks and countries never fail.  I feel so much better now.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 10, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> You don't need to.  If you are talking about the crypto market globally, it's the only sensible metric to use to choose a representative coin.  Yes coins fail.  But they are largely due to low market cap, economically insignificant.



A lack of experience / knowledge and sophistication of bitcoin investors shows in this.

In the markets, what you are saying would be like saying that the only thing we should look at is Apple stock.  Don't look at Intel, don't look at Dell, don't look at AMD, just Apple, because they're the biggest.

Or if you prefer, FOREX, we just look at the USD.  We don't care what happens to the Euro, the yen, the sterling and so on...

In the real world, we have this thing called an Advance/Decline line that shows how many parts of a market is sinking and how much is going up.  If 90% of a market are going down and only 10% is going up, and you're making a new high, most likely the entire market is about to come down hard.   This has to be used with other indicators same as all tools, the joke is that the A/D line has called 30 of the last 10 crashes.  Nevertheless, divergence with the AD line is a negative indicator at any point.  

Crypto already has established that thus far, it works just like that too, same as every other market in existence.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 10, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> Then how come Tether (stable coin) is so popular?


Beats me to be honest, since it was proven to be more or less a scam. Even their legal team admitted that they're actually lying and not all tokens are backed up by the dollar.

Anyway, tether tokens seem to have been involved in some really dubious transactions, I don't think they are actually that popular with your average investor but rather a tool for a few used to manipulate markets. In fact I'm sure that's the case, since most crypto "investors" seem interested only in stuff like doge and cumrocket and what not.



moproblems99 said:


> Phew.  Good things banks and countries never fail.  I feel so much better now.



Everything fails, all the time. Crypto and fiat are ironically exposed to the same sort of disasters.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 10, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> Nicehash calculator says that a 2070 will gain £4.7 a day minus the electric cost. How much do you pay per KW/h?


Hmmm. 14 pence according to to the bills, then I have a service charge. Will have to delve into it further to calculate the total cost though.
What did you enter for KW/h on Nicehash?


----------



## Zach_01 (May 10, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> Hmmm. 14 pence according to to the bills, then I have a service charge. Will have to delve into it further to calculate the total cost though.
> What did you enter for KW/h on Nicehash?


Didn't know your electricity charges so left it default which is £0.1 per KW/h

2 minutes ago the calculator stated a £4.95 gross income. You have to subtract the power cost from that.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 10, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> Didn't know your electricity charges so left it default which is £0.1 per KW/h
> 
> 2 minutes ago the calculator stated a £4.95 gross income. You have to subtract the power cost from that.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Not bad for a 2070 but I'll have to find the service charge and add that. 
I'll come back here once that's done later today and see if it's worth it.


----------



## Zach_01 (May 10, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> Thanks. Not bad for a 2070 but I'll have to find the service charge and add that.
> I'll come back here once that's done later today and see if it's worth it.


Depending on the power provider you'll have to add also the extra charges.
For example my charge for 1KW/h is €0.0639. But I have to include power grid charges, maintenance charges and of course VAT at the end.
This results to about €0.13 per KW/h total cost.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 10, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> Depending on the power provider you'll have to add also the extra charges.
> For example my charge for 1KW/h is €0.0639. But I have to include power grid charges, maintenance charges and of course VAT at the end.
> This results to about €0.13 per KW/h total cost.


A nice solar array wouldn't go a miss because I can only see electricity costs rising 
Bastardo taxation. Thanks for your help


----------



## trog100 (May 10, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Which also crash from time to time, quite badly. And then you have two kinds of people, those who get burned really bad and those who keep holding based on the aforementioned irrational belief that the price is always going to go back up.



its an historically proven belief.. i wouldn't say always for ever but so far it has always gone back up.. 

trog


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 10, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Watch the NASDAQ next week.  I think if it breaks below 12400, the bull market is over, and everything else will follow - including crypto.   I'm pretty sure it's going down hard next week, 12400 is about 1300 points below current level.  I think this might start late Monday, or perhaps Tuesday.  Same thing will happen to bitcoin in short order.



Hope ya'll are watching that NASDAQ.  It's well on its way.


----------



## 64K (May 10, 2021)

The NASDAQ stocks were extremely overpriced anyway. It was due for a market correction for years now.

The real market correction isn't going to come right now but it will come soon.


----------



## phill (May 10, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> Thanks again Phill,
> 
> I've seen the prices of my GPU's go through the roof and was considering selling at least the 980Ti. It's in mint condition and hasn't been tinkered with only repasted. Still, it's hard to let go. I used to buy from Scan but they haven't had cards in for some time, they didn't even reply to my query.
> CCL will drop some returned cards on their clearance page but they are overpriced and usually gone in seconds.
> ...


I'd consider running things for so long if not I suppose you can always try before you buy?  It really does help to tweak the card/s so you maximise the efficiency and the wattage, no point wasting power as that eats into your profits   The 2070 I think would be about 30 to 45MH I think??  It's not too bad but definitely one card isn't going to make you rich over night...  

I'm guess you'd earn more than that...  Try Cryptocompare and try the mining calculator on there..  That might help give you a better bet


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 10, 2021)

phill said:


> I'd consider running things for so long if not I suppose you can always try before you buy?  It really does help to tweak the card/s so you maximise the efficiency and the wattage, no point wasting power as that eats into your profits   The 2070 I think would be about 30 to 45MH I think??  It's not too bad but definitely one card isn't going to make you rich over night...
> 
> I'm guess you'd earn more than that...  Try Cryptocompare and try the mining calculator on there..  That might help give you a better bet


Thanks again Phill!


----------



## R-T-B (May 10, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> In the markets, what you are saying would be like saying that the only thing we should look at is Apple stock.


If Apple Stock was nearly ~50% of the market maybe it'd be comparable.  It's more akin to saying look at a global metric for stock market global performance, like we uh... do.  But there are admitedly better ways than just picking the biggest coin, my point is there are millions of insignifigant shitcoins that had failure written on them from day 1 and don't affect the market much.

You get that of course.  Just a minor nitpick.  Crypto performs like any market.  My point in a nutshell.



Vya Domus said:


> Which also crash from time to time, quite badly.


If you sell when they crash you are doing it wrong.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 10, 2021)

@trog100 

How much longer until you recover your 11 grand investment in buying all those gpu's?  have you broke net profit yet? I know you sold the older cards to offset some, plus you had buildup already saved. but just wondering


----------



## trog100 (May 10, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> @trog100
> 
> How much longer until you recover your 11 grand investment in buying all those gpu's?  have you broke net profit yet? I know you sold the older cards to offset some, plus you had buildup already saved. but just wondering



if earning stay where they are now maybe three or four months.. but its impossible to say.. things have varied too much.. 

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (May 10, 2021)

trog100 said:


> if earning stay where they are now maybe three or four months.. but its impossible to say.. things have varied too much..
> 
> trog




I'm sure that won't be an issue at all. Seems steady. 4200 today... so perhaps sooner than you think... with inflation in fiat being so severe and only getting worse by the day, I really think crypto has a strong future now honestly... which for me sucks to admit out loud. LOL


In other news, this is sad... they literally revived a dead coal plant to mine...









						Private-equity firm revives zombie fossil-fuel power plant to mine bitcoin
					

Power plant was left for dead until the cryptocurrency boom came along.




					arstechnica.com
				




_The once-abandoned power plant was bought by private equity firm Atlas Holdings and retasked. A significant portion of Greenidge's electricity no longer powers nearby homes or businesses; rather, the plant's smokestacks are increasingly pouring pollutants into the atmosphere in the service of mining bitcoin.

Now, Greenidge is on the verge of ramping up its bitcoin ambitions. By the end of this year, it plans to have 18,000 specialized machines mining bitcoin, and with the recent approval of its data center expansion plans, it will add 10,500 more. When the project is complete, the miners will be using 79 percent of the power plant’s capacity, or 85 MW.

_ yay more coal..


----------



## phill (May 10, 2021)

It's not so much it's value per coin, but the reward per block...  The higher that goes, the faster people will get payouts and have higher payouts which is why @trog100 is seeing a massive increase in his profits


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (May 11, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I'm sure that won't be an issue at all. Seems steady. 4200 today... so perhaps sooner than you think... with inflation in fiat being so severe and only getting worse by the day, I really think crypto has a strong future now honestly... which for me sucks to admit out loud. LOL
> 
> 
> In other news, this is sad... they literally revived a dead coal plant to mine...
> ...



Not that it's really any better with regard to carbon footprint, but the article states the plant was converted from coal to natural gas.  Either way, absolutely stomach turning.

All this squandering of natural resources to produce..... nothing.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 11, 2021)

weekendgeek said:


> Not that it's really any better with regard to carbon footprint, but the article states the plant was converted from coal to natural gas.  Either way, absolutely stomach turning.
> 
> All this squandering of natural resources to produce..... nothing.



Nah, they're producing something.  Suckers.


----------



## trog100 (May 11, 2021)

phill said:


> It's not so much it's value per coin, but the reward per block...  The higher that goes, the faster people will get payouts and have higher payouts which is why @trog100 is seeing a massive increase in his profits



my last three four hourly payouts phil have been 34.. 30.. and 29 dollars phil.. with estimated daily payouts of $160 or so..

something weird is going on..

trog


----------



## Vya Domus (May 11, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> If you sell when they crash you are doing it wrong.


Like I said, lot's of morons everywhere, crypto lowered the barrier of entry to losing your money.


----------



## phill (May 11, 2021)

trog100 said:


> my last three four hourly payouts phil have been 34.. 30.. and 29 dollars phil.. with estimated daily payouts of $160 or so..
> 
> something weird is going on..
> 
> trog


The coin dropped and then because of all the transactions, the block reward has grown which means we get more shares than normal and this makes for gaining more coin    Even with the price dropped, the amount you'll make will be more  

Check here mate - www.cryptocompare.com    You'll see a tab at the top for the various coins, just throw in what hashrate/power/power cost you have and it'll give you a profit based on things right now


----------



## Space Lynx (May 11, 2021)

Chia farming can reportedly ruin a 512GB SSD in 40 days
					

To recap, Chia uses a 'proof of space and time' model instead of 'proof of work' (Bitcoin) or 'proof of stake' (Etherium 2.0), which essentially means farmers---it...




					www.techspot.com
				




I do hope capitalist companies are aware that we have a finite amount of resources for making silicon based objects...


----------



## sepheronx (May 11, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I'm sure that won't be an issue at all. Seems steady. 4200 today... so perhaps sooner than you think... with inflation in fiat being so severe and only getting worse by the day, I really think crypto has a strong future now honestly... which for me sucks to admit out loud. LOL
> 
> 
> In other news, this is sad... they literally revived a dead coal plant to mine...
> ...



Now I'll be checking with my friend from the Philippines, for a decommissioned powerplant so we can buy it up.

I'll be the real life Mr. Burns

Edit: @trog100 hey, want to move that mining rig and yourself to the Philippines?  You can be an investor! lol


----------



## R0H1T (May 11, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Chia farming can reportedly ruin a 512GB SSD in 40 days
> 
> 
> To recap, Chia uses a 'proof of space and time' model instead of 'proof of work' (Bitcoin) or 'proof of stake' (Etherium 2.0), which essentially means farmers---it...
> ...


Et tu, Brutus?


> "*If Mars were 10% further away it would be impossible to colonize*, if consciousness developed 10% later in the history of the Earth, it would be impossible to be multi-planet species due to the sun boiling Earth." - *Elon Musk*



You know this is exactly why *Thanos *did what he had to


----------



## moproblems99 (May 11, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Like I said, lot's of morons everywhere, crypto lowered the barrier of entry to losing your money.


Well, good thing most of us aren't losing money.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 11, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> Well, good thing most of us aren't losing money.



 to be fair, in terms of markets, the recent boom is only like 4 months old if that... and with the summer months incoming, mining will be more difficult on electrical grids, so I expect there will be a crack down of sorts at least in hotter areas. this may have some negative impact on the price of ETH. I'm not sure. at end of day I still don't understand why ETH is valuable. I understand Bitcoin. but I don't get ETH, I even understand Dogecoin, the masses love a good trolling, they are fickle creatures like that.

ETH confuses crap out of me though.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 11, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> Well, good thing most of us aren't losing money.



So I am told.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 11, 2021)

Thinking this thread will be real quiet in a few weeks.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 11, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Thinking this thread will be real quiet in a few weeks.


Then everyone will.  The stock market is going to go first.  Crypto goes up when people don't trust the markets or assholes in charge of world governments.  Right now, many trust neither.

Additionally, I am still in the green if all cryptos lose 80% of their value.  Can anyone in the stock market say the same?


----------



## Vya Domus (May 11, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> The stock market is going to go first.  Crypto goes up when people don't trust the markets or assholes in charge of world governments.



Keep telling yourself that, crypto and stocks are highly correlated, both go up and down together regularly. The same giants that have been involved into crashes of the stock market are now heavily invested in crypto as well.



moproblems99 said:


> I am still in the green if all cryptos lose 80% of their value. Can anyone in the stock market say the same?



Uhm, yes ? I am really curious can you explain why that is only possible with crypto ?


----------



## Space Lynx (May 11, 2021)

CORSAIR ONE PRO a200 Compact Workstation PC, Ryzen 9 5950X, RTX 3080, 2TB M.2, 2TB HDD, 64GB DDR4-3200
					

Experience uncompromising performance with the CORSAIR ONE a200 Compact Gaming PC, powered by an AMD Ryzen™ 5000 Series CPU, NVIDIA® GeForce RTX 30 Series graphics, and award-winning CORSAIR components.




					www.corsair.com
				




hola everyone 3080 is in stock... MSRP for Corsair...


----------



## moproblems99 (May 11, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Uhm, yes ? I am really curious can you explain why that is only possible with crypto ?


Let's just assume you have three stocks worth $1000/share.

How many people investing bought those stocks when they were $200?  Almost no one.  I have all my crypto at buy ins where they can lose over 80% of their value and still make money.

Now, you knuckleheads are all saying that crypto is for fools and I need to sell it all and by real investments like stocks.  Because that is what real men do.

Now part deux, where can I buy investments currently where they will be able to lose 80% of their value and I still profit?

Newsflash, I can't.

In case your vast array of logic continues to fail, it is a really bad time to buy ANYTHING because it is all coming down.  The financial tools that are going first are the ones that don't allow you to hide your assets.

Why do you need to hide your assets?  Because governments (specifically the US), are going to come take it.

Dogecoin is just fun because you are just playing off the fight between philanthropists and centrists.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 11, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> Let's just assume you have three stocks worth $1000/share.
> 
> How many people investing bought those stocks when they were $200?  Almost no one.



And how many people invest into these coins when they're worth 0.0...01$ ? Almost no one, what's your argument ? Executives will basically get stock for zero when the company goes public and if they're lucky they become millionaires instantly and if the stock loses 80% of it's value, guess what they're still in the green. Same happens for some people in crypto when a random coin hits a major exchange, there is literally no difference between these worlds. The players might be different but the game is exactly the same.



moproblems99 said:


> Now, you knuckleheads are all saying that crypto is for fools and I need to sell it all and by real investments like stocks.  Because that is what real men do.



Ah yes, real men who gamble away their money into random unproven assets worth nothing, absolute legends and geniuses. I am not telling you to do anything, I am simply picking apart these bizarre arguments about crypto and their miracle properties never seen before.



moproblems99 said:


> In case your vast array of logic continues to fail, it is a really bad time to buy ANYTHING because it is all coming down. The financial tools that are going first are the ones that don't allow you to hide your assets.
> 
> Why do you need to hide your assets? Because governments (specifically the US), are going to come take it.



Yeah, because when this supposed financial apocalypse arrives you will simply log in into your favorite exchange/online store and use your crypto. They'll take away everything, expect those.  

You are making me curios again with this cutting edge reasosning, why would the government want to take away all your assets ? If it's all coming down and everything except cypto will be worth zero why the hell would they want something that's worth nothing from you ?


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 11, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Ah yes, real men who gamble away their money into random unproven assets worth nothing, absolute legends and geniuses. I am not telling you to do anything, I am simply picking apart these bizarre arguments about crypto and their miracle properties never seen before.


It seems like you don't understand the basics of an open market. If everyone says something is worth X, then it is. Regardless of your opinion on the matter.

Also, if you are holding the bulk of your assets on an exchange then that isn't very smart. Pull it out and put it in your wallet.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 11, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Ah yes, real men who gamble away their money into random unproven assets worth nothing, absolute legends and geniuses. I am not telling you to do anything, I am simply picking apart these bizarre arguments about crypto and their miracle properties never seen before.



You act like we are all ignorant of the risks.  Perhaps, just only maybe possibly perhaps, we understand and accept the risk.  Ignoring any of my stored assets, I have made 20k just buying and selling dips in doge.

The fact other people can leverage this tool and you don't have the courage or smarts (I don't think this is the case) doesn't mean it isn't a valid tool.

Even Mark Cuban acknowledges it for what it is.  He even says it is better than a lotto ticket but he wouldn't recommend it to most investors.  But that leaves the door open for people who know what they are doing and understand the risks.

Everyone needs to get over the fact that someone else has found a use for general processing units.  I encourage you guys to get over your hate you can't waste energy gaming and rendering shitty YouTube vids because if you don't, you will die of salt poisoning before this ends.



Vya Domus said:


> Yeah, because when this supposed financial apocalypse arrives you will simply log in into your favorite exchange/online store and use your crypto. They'll take away everything, expect those.



Again, you are picking points to suit you.  I didn't necessarily say apocalypse.  Inflation and taxes are coming.  You can somewhat hedge against inflation with crypto and the taxes is where you hide your assets.  They can't tax you on things they don't know exists.  When the tax system is more beneficial for you, you pull it out.  I also never said 'coming down' and hiding assets had to happen at the same time.  Your are injecting your flawed beliefs into my words.



Vya Domus said:


> worth nothing



Also, what exactly is a share of gold if buy a commodity or a barrel of oil.  Let's assume I bought some of those.  Exactly how do I collect those so I can physically store them on my property?

And what sets the value of that oil.  Supply and demand.  What sets the value of basketball cards? What about stamps?  Crypto?

What if no one wanted basketball cards?  Or stamps?  What would their value be again?

I don't get why anyone can't figure this out.  But then I get it.  They all hate crypto because it keeps them from wasting wattage and electricity, thereby warming the planet, by gaming and rendering shitty YouTube videos.


----------



## trog100 (May 11, 2021)

coiners and no coiners.. never the twain shall meet.. he he..

my nicehash four hourly payouts are still in silly money land the last one was $35 dollars..

trog


----------



## moproblems99 (May 11, 2021)

trog100 said:


> coiners and no coiners.. never the twain shall meet.. he he..
> 
> my nicehash four hourly payouts are till in silly money land the last one was $35 dollars..
> 
> trog



I don't even have mine on.  Too hot.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 11, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> I don't even have mine on.  Too hot.



does your house not have air conditioning? what's the point of all that money if you don't even have an air conditioner for comfort?


----------



## moproblems99 (May 11, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> does your house not have air conditioning? what's the point of all that money if you don't even have an air conditioner for comfort?



Do you like to sit in a room with a bunch of GPUs doing their thing and try to work?  It's 90F with 70% humidity.  And only getting hotter.  Besides, I make enough on being a fool and buying and selling the dips that I don't need it on.  Besides, my job pays for all my wants and needs and I need to make sure I can devote maximum effort to that.

But yes, it is sort of sad to see all these GPUs sitting here doing nothing.  But hey, at least they aren't contributing to the end of our species right?

Also, Plato didn't have an air conditioner so I am pretty sure I don't need one.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 11, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> Do you like to sit in a room with a bunch of GPUs doing their thing and try to work?  It's 90F with 70% humidity.  And only getting hotter.  Besides, I make enough on being a fool and buying and selling the dips that I don't need it on.  Besides, my job pays for all my wants and needs and I need to make sure I can devote maximum effort to that.
> 
> But yes, it is sort of sad to see all these GPUs sitting here doing nothing.  But hey, at least they aren't contributing to the end of our species right?
> 
> Also, Plato didn't have an air conditioner so I am pretty sure I don't need one.



Would be interesting to know what the weather was like. I wouldn't be surprised if the Greek Mediterranean was a paradise though back then, if it's to hot, you simply can't think straight. So I doubt he was overly heated too much of the time.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 11, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Would be interesting to know what the weather was like. I wouldn't be surprised if the Greek Mediterranean was a paradise though back then, if it's to hot, you simply can't think straight. So I doubt he was overly heated too much of the time.



Humans can adapt so they can think and live anywhere.  Notice how people survive in the deserts and Antarctica.

Adapting is why I got into crypto.  The sole purpose was so I could get a GPU years ago cuz I was a salty bastard like all of you.  Then I found out it was fascinating and have been around ever since.


----------



## R-T-B (May 11, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I still don't understand why ETH is valuable.


Only coin with a PoW exit strategy, as well as the foundation API for many of the lesser coins out there.  How could it not be a big player?

At any rate, it surprised me how much I can make mining on my Turing.  You could have a scalper priced 3080 before the waitlist pops with mining income from a 2080 Super if this keeps up, for nothing but the cost of ~200W electric.  It's why I made my mining screensaver believe it or not, to help gamers.  It's insane, yes, but there is real money being made.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 11, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> You act like we are all ignorant of the risks.  Perhaps, just only maybe possibly perhaps, we understand and accept the risk.  Ignoring any of my stored assets, I have made 20k just buying and selling dips in doge.
> 
> The fact other people can leverage this tool and you don't have the courage or smarts (I don't think this is the case) doesn't mean it isn't a valid tool.
> 
> ...



Wanna throw you a bombshell ? I actually own and trade crypto for quite a while now but I choose not to be delusional about it and what I am getting myself into. I know that that if the stock market really crashes, crypto will crash into oblivion alongside with it with not much left to stand at the end. Whether or not it rebounds, I don't know, but what I do know is that sitting there with a gapping hole in your portfolio and a big smile on your face because "we're going to the moon", or "we're hodling", or we're outsmarting the government is nothing short of insanity.

Crypto and stocks have been moving with frightening correlation in the last two years or so, this can only mean one thing, major corporations and hedge funds are getting involved and they account for a lot of the volume that is being moved. These guys don't "hodl" and they wont stand by and watch their equity go down 80% like you might do. If crypto was once a safe haven (mostly due to the type of ignorance displayed in this thread) from all the financial catastrophes that unfolded, now it sure as hell isn't.

And if some are wasting their time with rendering shitty YouTube videos, most crypto enthusiasts are doing much better by watching these shitty YouTube videos :


----------



## R-T-B (May 11, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Wanna throw you a bombshell ? I actually own and trade crypto for quite a while now but I choose not to be delusional about it and what I am getting myself into. I know that that if the stock market really crashes, crypto will crash into oblivion alongside with it with not much left to stand at the end. Whether or not it rebounds, I don't know, but what I do know is that sitting there with a gapping hole in your portfolio and a big smile on your face because "we're going to the moon", or "we're hodling", or we're outsmarting the government is nothing short of insanity.
> 
> Crypto and stocks have been moving with frightening correlation in the last two years or so, this can only mean one thing, major corporations and hedge funds are getting involved and they account for a lot of the volume that is being moved. These guys don't "hodl" and they wont stand by and watch their equity go down 80% like you might do. If crypto was once a safe haven (mostly due to the type of ignorance displayed in this thread) from all the financial catastrophes that unfolded, now it sure as hell isn't.
> 
> ...


Just as bad as the "this penny stock is going to explode" ads of 2010s frankly.


----------



## trog100 (May 11, 2021)

the stock market are a sea of red.. crypto is also down gold and silver have been going up a tad.. what does this mean dunno but it does look a bit ominous.. a storm may be coming..

trog


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 11, 2021)

Everyone, Everyone...Listen up!!! Vya Domus says we are all "delusional, ignorant, morons" and thank goodness he injected his highly valued and sought after opinion in this thread, because I wouldn't know how to think without that critical input. Please listen to Vya as he is r/iamverysmart.

Selling all my crypto now... Thanks Vya for pointing me down the correct path.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 11, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> what I do know is that sitting there with a gapping hole in your portfolio and a big smile on your face because "we're going to the moon", or "we're hodling", or we're outsmarting the government is nothing short of insanity.



You aren't understanding the game sir.


----------



## the54thvoid (May 11, 2021)

A game of coins.

And it is a game, the type that depends on blind faith. Faith that folk like Musk don't tank things by Tweeting nonsense (like when he praised Doge, then called it a scam). But, as said above, it's a game to be played until the ref blows the whislte.


----------



## R0H1T (May 11, 2021)

> Power is a curious thing. Three great men, a king, a priest, and a rich man. Between them stands a common sellsword. Each great man bids the sellsword kill the other two. Who lives, who dies?
> 
> *Power resides where men believe it resides.* It’s a trick. A shadow on the wall. And a very small man can cast a very large shadow.


As always, from everyone's favorite hated (post S6) show


----------



## Vya Domus (May 11, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> You aren't understanding the game sir.


Of course I’m not. What was I thinking, this is a discussion on an Internet forum titled “Bitcoin price suddenly surges to 3-year high”. I should have known better, this is a melting pot of experts and pioneers in the future of financing.

I am ready to be lectured, please do explain what the game is.




ZenZimZaliben said:


> Vya Domus says we are all "delusional, ignorant, morons"



Funny how saying that I choose not be delusional is interpreted by others as ”he must mean that I am delusional, me, in particular”. I see you very r/smort yourself.

Also, what is up with this "he is telling us to sell our coins" stuff ? I've literally never said that, those crashes in the past left some of you with PTSD or what ?


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 11, 2021)

r/smort lol

BY saying you aren't delusional after just stating that we are morons would be easy for someone to infer that we are also delusional, unlike yourself.

Besides I'm just poking fun. There is no reason for name calling even if it is not directed at one specific person.

NO I am one of the morons who always buys on the dips and I look at crashes as opportunity. Someone once said Buy Low and Sell High. Well with crypto..what is high? It's an ever moving goal post. So regardless of what the youtubers are I doing I'm HODLING.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 11, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Besides I'm just poking fun.


Yeah, sure.



ZenZimZaliben said:


> NO I am one of the morons who always buys on the dips and I look at crashes as opportunity. Someone once said Buy Low and Sell High. Well with crypto..what is high? It's an ever moving goal post. So regardless of what the youtubers are I doing I'm HODLING.



What can I say other than this is a high IQ amazing strategy, I am gonna get scolded and ridiculed by the experts on here if I don't.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 11, 2021)

y'all need to stop arguing before some cranky mod comes in here and shuts this thread down. 

just move on all of you.  

I have already said everything I wanted to say in previous posts.

@moproblems99 main thing is just make sure you enjoying life my man, that's most important thing.  I love my new line of work, its no stress and my boss is nice. weather is great, going biking and for walks. yeah, I wish I had more money, I won't lie. but I do believe there is a cap to happiness, I believe most studies say around 80k a year is max happiness after that its severe diminishing returns.  for me that number is around 50k... my goal is to get a 50k job someday... and just finance a house, do the traditional thing. i don't know. /shrug  life is what you make of it


----------



## moproblems99 (May 12, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I believe most studies say around 80k a year is max happiness after that its severe diminishing returns


Have you made 80k a year yet?

Edit: I hate this phone.  Wealth is a sliding scale.  When the area around you goes up, you better hope you keep up.



the54thvoid said:


> A game of coins.
> 
> And it is a game, the type that depends on blind faith. Faith that folk like Musk don't tank things by Tweeting nonsense (like when he praised Doge, then called it a scam). But, as said above, it's a game to be played until the ref blows the whislte.



Well, people like me take solace knowing that there is a large group of people that will always hodl.  This allows me to guess an approximate floor and feel comfortable betting on more dips and selling on lower peaks.  This reduces my risk (provided my theory is right).  But most investing is all about testing theories.  I'd love to win but it won't kill me to lose.  Except my pride.


----------



## MentalAcetylide (May 12, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> Have you made 80k a year yet?
> 
> Edit: I hate this phone.  Wealth is a sliding scale.  When the area around you goes up, you better hope you keep up.


We went from "Keeping up with the Joneses" to "Keeping up with the Kardashians" and back to "Keeping up with the Joneses" already? We must be jonesing for the Joneses again.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 12, 2021)

MentalAcetylide said:


> We went from "Keeping up with the Joneses" to "Keeping up with the Kardashians" and back to "Keeping up with the Joneses" already? We must be jonesing for the Joneses again.



More what I meant was when anyone says you only need X of Y to by happy, I immediately say:. What the fuck did you base that off of?

A specific point in time?  A specific value of the dollar?  The phase of the moon in relation to doge in relation to Jupiter?


----------



## Zach_01 (May 12, 2021)

Money can't really make you happy. But when you don't have it to keep up with your obligations and payables you can be unhappy. Beyond that, anything else is just a tool to make your life easier, to have the **"freedom" to enjoy some things more than... just to exist. But certainly can't make you truly happy. Other things can, but money won't buy you those. And when you think you can buy happiness, you're just delusional.
My job already gives me enough "freedom" to cover my expenses and to spend for a few enjoyable things or to save. Its not $80k, its around half+.
I'm into the "investing game" for a back up. For me or who ever I choose to help. Health care, paychecks, better life standards and so many more. I or the people around me don't need a mansion or a villa to live in, nor a supercar in the garage. Ok, I wouldn't say no to a Nissan GTR because I'm into fast AWD cars (hence my car in my avatar) but this is more like a desire and it will stay like that.

And something else...
Its not the same today for those who already have the hardware (even 1 GPU) to choose between direct buying or mining. Its definitely better to mine.
8xRX580 + 1x5700XT cost me €3.5 in power and mine €50+ of ETH /day. I'm buying ETH at 1/15 of its current price.

**freedom is also a delusion in this kind of society we live in


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## trog100 (May 12, 2021)

better to mine than buy i dunno.. allowing for selling my older hardware i have just spent around $12K on mining hardware.. that same 12K spent at the beginning of the year on eth would have bought me 12 or so coins.. those 12 coins would now be worth around 50K... a nice 38K profit.. 

currently nicehash is showing silly daily gains of $200-ish dollars.. more than double what it was doing but it will still take a while to mine that 38K.. 

for me anyway the big gains come from the coins i already own.. mining takes to long to build up a stash.. .. 

trog


----------



## Zach_01 (May 12, 2021)

Why oh why did read the half of it...?


Zach_01 said:


> And something else...
> Its not the same today *for those who already have the hardware (even 1 GPU)* to choose between direct buying or mining. Its definitely better to mine.
> 8xRX580 + 1x5700XT cost me €3.5 in power and mine €50+ of ETH /day. I'm buying ETH at 1/15 of its current price.
> 
> **freedom is also a delusion in this kind of society we live in


----------



## trog100 (May 12, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> Why oh why did read the half of it...?



i already had the hardware but to mine in any meaningful way i had to update it.. i pretty much said the same thing as you but changed my mind.. he he..

3xxx cards mine at more than double the rate for roughly the same power usage.. 

trog


----------



## Zach_01 (May 12, 2021)

trog100 said:


> i already had the hardware but to mine in any meaningful way i had to update it.. i pretty much said the same thing as you but changed my mind.. he he..
> 
> 3xxx cards mine at more than double the rate for roughly the same power usage..
> 
> trog


Yeah, I won't update those RX580s. I already paid for them a few years back and still can mine with a meaningful way IMO. There is no need for me to spend thousands of €€€ right now to get latest hardware.
I kept 10x580s going even when gross profits was "only" power cost or even less (ETH at €90). I had the belief that price would be back up one day. And here we are today still making a nice gain.

So we didn't said exactly the same... I never said buy the latest hardware.


----------



## trog100 (May 12, 2021)

no but way back in this thread i said dont buy the latest hardware.. just mine if you already have it.. but i changed my mind.. worth it or not i still  aint sure.. nicehash is currently showing me a nice $200 dollars a day though for 730 m/sh... 

trog


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## Zach_01 (May 12, 2021)

Same says cryptocompare calculator

$202 gross profit




You can check it at the pool stash or at your wallet/address if it grows by that much /day.
0.047 ETH/day of course this depends on current price.


----------



## phill (May 12, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> y'all need to stop arguing before some cranky mod comes in here and shuts this thread down.
> 
> just move on all of you.
> 
> ...


Did someone say Mod??    I'm no Mod...... ish...

The thing with mining and all the rest of it, you put in whatever you wish to, can loose or whatever, there's no point in getting bank loans and such for everything...

Right now a mate and I are having fun doing it, we can make some good money from it if we choose to sell.  Currently we have cards of various ages, old to newish and new and we mine on them all.  People know me and my project thread for having hardware coming out my ears, it's what I like, what I enjoy, I see no reason to not use whatever I have to gain something from it, after all PC's are a tool to do a job, whether its gaming, FAH, WCG or just general use of surfing the web and all the rest.

I don't need to nor want to share to much about what I do because some people may or may not like it or get shirty or all the rest of it.  But I do try to do is help people wherever I can.   Money don't buy everything, but for everything else, there is master card...  Hang on... Never mind, I digress...

People who wish to mine will mine, if they see it as a get rich quick scheme then you needed to be in it from the start.  For example, I had 3 Eth left over from when I last mined, when we looked at it at the beginning of the year, it was worth nearly $4000, now those 3 coins if I'd kept them, would be worth $12,000+...  
I do believe hand on heart or head, both, that there will come a time that the bubble will burst.  I always believe things because sometimes too much of a good thing is sadly not always going to last but I hope that it does for a little while longer.  If not, we can go mine something else or just carry on (maybe not at the same capacity) and hope that Eth gains strength again like it has done and away we go again..  Who knows, if I keep mining with my friend, things go to crap, I might just let things carry on, one day realise there's 100 coins there (numbers out of the sky) and they are worth $10,000 (could happen!) what am I going to do at that point?  No idea....  We'll have to wait and see 

@Zach_01 I saw on Ebay yesterday in the UK 580's where going for up to £1000 a card...  I was stunned and shocked..  I know 5700XT's go for similar amounts it's unreal.  I'm not going to even talk about 3080s and 3090s, all I can say is my 3090s I have where a bargain compared to the price of the damn things now...  It's unreal....

Try and keep it light in here guys.  All the bitching and moaning in the world isn't going to sadly change a damn thing about how things are going right now.  I was watching a TechYes video yesterday and apparently in Australia they are starting to see cards on the shelves and such but the prices are just too damn high...  So they are not getting bought.  He also showed in a video, that there was an auction on Ebay that had 72 3060 Ti cards that went for $82k I think it was (around $1100 a card I think)..  If someone actually paid that amount of money for those cards, if it goes to poop in the next 6 to 12 months, they might have been lucky and possibly broke even, but it's a massive risk.


----------



## Zach_01 (May 12, 2021)

First the shelves must be filled and then no one buys. Only then prices will come down. As long as people keep buying them at those ridiculous prices, they will stay high.
As everything else is = _supply and demand_.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 12, 2021)

Well well.  March inflation was 0.71% for the month.  April, 0.9%.  Excluding food/energy, 3% in 4 months.  4.2% including those 2.  That would be 9% annualized or 12.6% including food/energy.  And it seems to be accelerating.  If inflation were 0% the rest of the year we would have 3% for 2021.

The Fed will have to act and act soon.  That means no more free money pump, bond prices will crater, and bond yield (hence interest rates) will skyrocket.   Get ready for a massive selloff.  Anything less and you can figure they are intentionally destroying the currency.

"Those fears crystallized on Wednesday, after the government reported that headline consumer prices surged by a faster than expected 4.2% last month. Excluding food and energy, prices jumped 0.9 percent in April (SA) and are _*up 3.0 percent over the year*_."









						Stock market news live updates: Stocks rocked by inflation fears, Dow, Nasdaq, S&P tank by over 2%
					

Inflation fears are dogging Wall Street at a time when the U.S. rebound is picking up speed.




					finance.yahoo.com
				




And right on que, yield spiking up :


----------



## moproblems99 (May 12, 2021)

Your projected income
PROJECTED *WEEKLY* INCOME
0.003508 BTC
≈ $198.48
PROJECTED *MONTHLY* INCOME
0.015034 BTC
≈ $850.65
PROJECTED *YEARLY* INCOME
0.182909 BTC
≈ $10,349.57
Active workers​
WORKERALGORITHMDIFFACCEPTED SPEEDREJECTED SPEEDCURRENT PROFITABILITYUNPAID BALANCECONNECTED SINCELOCATIONXNSUB1DAGGERHASHIMOTO0.1989.67 MH/s0.00 MH/s0.000486720.0000099534 minEUYes

Curious why I am in the EU?


----------



## the54thvoid (May 12, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> Your projected income
> PROJECTED *WEEKLY* INCOME
> 0.003508 BTC
> ≈ $198.48
> ...



It's where your hacked BTC's are going...


----------



## trog100 (May 12, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Well well.  March inflation was 0.71% for the month.  April, 0.9%.  Excluding food/energy, 3% in 4 months.  4.2% including those 2.  That would be 9% annualized or 12.6% including food/energy.  And it seems to be accelerating.  If inflation were 0% the rest of the year we would have 3% for 2021.
> 
> The Fed will have to act and act soon.  That means no more free money pump, bond prices will crater, and bond yield (hence interest rates) will skyrocket.   Get ready for a massive selloff.  Anything less and you can figure they are intentionally destroying the currency.
> 
> ...



they cant stop printing so we will be looking at runaway inflation.. they may well be intentionally destroying the currency but i just think they are stuck in a corner with no easy way out..

trog


----------



## moproblems99 (May 12, 2021)

trog100 said:


> stuck in a corner with no easy way out



You aren't stuck in a corner you put yourself in.  You know the way out.  No one has the guts.


----------



## sepheronx (May 12, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> Your projected income
> PROJECTED *WEEKLY* INCOME
> 0.003508 BTC
> ≈ $198.48
> ...



you have to adjust it manually in nicehash to US server if you are located there.  I had to.  It auto defaulted to EU for me as well.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 12, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> you have to adjust it manually in nicehash to US server if you are located there.  I had to.  It auto defaulted to EU for me as well.



Hmmm, where do you do that?  My country is set as US in settings and I don't see anywhere else in the rig section.

Edit:

I see it.  Since I have to manage everything else through the web I assumed it was there.  It was not.


----------



## phill (May 12, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> Hmmm, where do you do that?  My country is set as US in settings and I don't see anywhere else in the rig section.


I think it's in the batch file you create unless you use another miner/setup


----------



## moproblems99 (May 12, 2021)

phill said:


> I think it's in the batch file you create unless you use another miner/setup



Yeah, I just ninja'd the edit before you replied.  I was just testing with NHOS.  Will try HiveOS next.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 12, 2021)

trog100 said:


> they cant stop printing so we will be looking at runaway inflation.. they may well be intentionally destroying the currency but i just think they are stuck in a corner with no easy way out..
> 
> trog



I thought about this as well, when Powell said he welcomed inflation it kind of shocked me (also I feel bad for disabled people on fixed incomes and screw people like him for forgetting such people), anyways, my initial thinking was shock but then later I started wondering, if prices go, maybe so do wages, which means all the money they keep printing without paying back will now have more tax flow going to it (more money you make more taxes you pay which would help cover the cost of endless printing)... but then I just realized they are all dumb as crap and probably blinded by hubris and probably have no idea what they are doing. lol



sepheronx said:


> you have to adjust it manually in nicehash to US server if you are located there.  I had to.  It auto defaulted to EU for me as well.



you are making that much a month from only 2 cards mining? or just 1 3080 card mining 24/7?  not bad if the latter.

also, does switching to US from EU increase your profit any? I'm just curious if latency has anything at all to do with it. lol



RandallFlagg said:


> Well well.  March inflation was 0.71% for the month.  April, 0.9%.  Excluding food/energy, 3% in 4 months.  4.2% including those 2.  That would be 9% annualized or 12.6% including food/energy.  And it seems to be accelerating.  If inflation were 0% the rest of the year we would have 3% for 2021.
> 
> The Fed will have to act and act soon.  That means no more free money pump, bond prices will crater, and bond yield (hence interest rates) will skyrocket.   Get ready for a massive selloff.  Anything less and you can figure they are intentionally destroying the currency.
> 
> ...



we screwed lol.


----------



## sepheronx (May 12, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> you are making that much a month from only 2 cards mining? or just 1 3080 card mining 24/7?  not bad if the latter.
> 
> also, does switching to US from EU increase your profit any? I'm just curious if latency has anything at all to do with it. lol



Well, I dunno what the first part is reply to, as I am making about $50 - 60 a day with 3 RTX 3070's and 1 RX 6800XT.

As for changing to US from EU, all depends on your location.  But yes, you can actually get less stale shares due to latency being reduced.  And also you may finish shares a bit quicker as well thus in both cases combined, can slightly increase payout.  But small amount.  Stale shares are the problem.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 12, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I thought about this as well, when Powell said he welcomed inflation it kind of shocked me (also I feel bad for disabled people on fixed incomes and screw people like him for forgetting such people), anyways, my initial thinking was shock but then later I started wondering, if prices go, maybe so do wages, which means all the money they keep printing without paying back will now have more tax flow going to it (more money you make more taxes you pay which would help cover the cost of endless printing)... but then I just realized they are all dumb as crap and probably blinded by hubris and probably have no idea what they are doing. lol



Here's the dirty secret about money printing that nobody talks about.
GDP = M * V where M= Money supply, and V is the velocity of money i.e. how many times a dollar changes hands.

If you forget what the media says and what 'common knowledge' is - which is typically a lie and wrong respectively - these charts explain what they've been fighting.  We should have had a deflationary depression after the 2000 .com bust, and for that matter a major debt implosion in asia a few years before the .com bust.  They printed us out of it.  They are still printing.  

There are two inflection points on the M2 money supply in late 1990s and again last year.  In both cases the decline in velocity of money nullified the increased money supply.  If V ever pops up much - and so far it hasn't - you'll get real hyperinflation.

This will not end well.  They short circuited the business cycle and eventually that will come home to roost.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 12, 2021)

Wage growth never keeps up to inflation and Increasing the bottom (min-wage) only increases inflation. If min-wage goes up the cost of everything else goes up because it has to for companies to maintain margins. Plus if you are in a higher level position like say a manager did you also get a raise? Probably not, so now you've diluted the middle class even further. It is a very hard thing to get out of once in it and we are for sure in it with no end in sight.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 12, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Wage growth never keeps up to inflation and Increasing the bottom (min-wage) only increases inflation. If min-wage goes up the cost of everything else goes up because it has to for companies to maintain margins. Plus if you are in a higher level position like say a manager did you also get a raise? Probably not, so now you've diluted the middle class even further. It is a very hard thing to get out of once in it and we are for sure in it with no end in sight.



That's what I meant when I said no one has the guts.  There is a giant reckoning coming for all the people that think they can just tax and spend to fix our issues.  Or cut tax's so businesses can thrive.  One diverts money to the poor, the other diverts money to the rich.  Those that are less poor or not rich get screwed in each case.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 12, 2021)

Yes and it is the middle that drives the country and economy. But no one seems to understand that. Instead the Rich do everything in their power legal or not to get richer and the poor get free handouts paid for by the middle since the Rich don't pay taxes. Printing money, Raising min wage do nothing except increase inflation and lower the middles buying power. Eventually it will crash...maybe some day everyone will just stop paying taxes since none of their tax money goes to anything they want.


----------



## trog100 (May 12, 2021)

taxation is no longer used to pay for things if they want money for that they just print some more of it... taxation is now about income re-distribution.. 

trog


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 12, 2021)

trog100 said:


> taxation is no longer used to pay for things if they want money for that they just print some more of it... taxation is now about income re-distribution..
> 
> trog



Money is (mostly) issued in the form of purchasing debt.  In theory, if Fed simply stops buying debt, then the money will all come back to them + interest excepting defaults.  Of course, that'll take 30 years or more.


----------



## R-T-B (May 12, 2021)

I'm not honestly viewing fiat as apocalyptically as you guys, but I am enjoying the rise in crypto price associated with the fear generated from it, won't lie.

Of course no one knows what the future holds.  All hedged bets, right?


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 12, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I'm not honestly viewing fiat as apocalyptically as you guys, but I am enjoying the rise in crypto price associated with the fear generated from it, won't lie.
> 
> Of course no one knows what the future holds.  All hedged bets, right?



I think most everyone knows that it depends on what course of action the Fed takes.  So the only thing for the little guy to do is to keep watching the Fed - what they do more than what they say.  

Personally I think they will taper within a couple of months, in fact its somewhat likely they have already started.

This is the chart to watch:





__





						Assets: Total Assets: Total Assets (Less Eliminations from Consolidation): Wednesday Level | FRED | St. Louis Fed
					

Graph and download economic data for Assets: Total Assets: Total Assets (Less Eliminations from Consolidation): Wednesday Level from 2002-12-18 to 2022-12-01 about assets, banks, depository institutions, USA, stock market, and indexes.



					fred.stlouisfed.org


----------



## R-T-B (May 12, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> I think most everyone knows that it depends on what course of action the Fed takes.  So the only thing for the little guy to do is to keep watching the Fed - what they do more than what they say.
> 
> Personally I think they will taper within a couple of months, in fact its somewhat likely they have already started.
> 
> ...


I'm not well versed enough to know whether you are talking out of your ass or not, no offense intended.  I just find it unlikely that fiat will fail on the level of some predictions here.


----------



## trog100 (May 12, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I'm not well versed enough to know whether you are talking out of your ass or not, no offense intended.  I just find it unlikely that fiat will fail on the level of some predictions here.



the thought is the fed have lost control.. inflation will kick in big and they wont be able to stop it.. what happens then is a genuine unknown but the outcome aint expected to be good..

trog


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 12, 2021)

trog100 said:


> the thought is the fed have lost control.. inflation will kick in big and they wont be able to stop it.. what happens then is a genuine unknown but the outcome aint expected to be good..
> 
> trog



Taper means the fed stops buying MBS' and treasuries on the market - that turns off the money spigot.  Typically money is injected into the economy by the Fed purchasing debt - US Treasuries, and recently Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS) and with Covid even some corporate debt.  

To contract money supply, they start selling their treasuries and bonds.   That sucks money right out of the economy as the money people use to buy those assets goes to the Fed and thus isn't available in the economy anymore.   

That circled area on the chart - where the assets held by the Federal Reserve declined - that is the fed selling assets and thus sucking money out of the economy.  

If you look at the chart it shows that they sold somewhere around 750B in assets over an 18 month period from 1-2018 to ~8-2019.  This is likely why the markets go so choppy from 2018 through middle of 2019.  

Their net assets began to climb a little bit again looks like Q3 2019 and then levelled off until Covid hit.  Since Covid hit they have bought looks like about 3.5 Trillion in assets.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 12, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I'm not well versed enough to know whether you are talking out of your ass or not, no offense intended.  I just find it unlikely that fiat will fail on the level of some predictions here.


Listen, if fiat fails, the last thing you are worrying about is the fact fiat failed.  Although, I am covered by my copper and brass investments in that scenario too.

Also, @RandallFlagg , thanks for contributing awesome posts.  Either by being genuine information, or artfully crafting total horseshit into genuine information. In either case, I enjoy it.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 12, 2021)

This guy just loves to put a target on himself in the media.   He's clearly not stupid, but there's some aspect of stupid to him.

I don't believe the news moves the markets, I think it's the other way around, but here it is :









						Bitcoin, Dogecoin sink after Elon Musk walks back Tesla's support for crypto transactions
					

Elon Musk said on Wednesday that Tesla would stop accepting Bitcoin in car purchases.




					finance.yahoo.com


----------



## Space Lynx (May 12, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I'm not well versed enough to know whether you are talking out of your ass or not, no offense intended.  I just find it unlikely that fiat will fail on the level of some predictions here.


in a way fiat already has failed for some people in United States. imagine you are on a fixed income of $850 a month (lot of people on disability get around this, maybe a little more maybe a little less)

now imagine 2 years ago you went to grocery store and bought a pound of beef for $3.50, and now you go and it's $6.99 --- yet your disability income only went up like an extra 10 or 20 a month.  but the prices raised for products across the board...

so for some people fiat has already failed them. it's a very fragile system, those people barely got by even before inflation increases / covid increases.

if fiat fails for the middle class, the rich will feel it slightly but even then not much.  fiat failing is on a spectrum imo depending on your personal situation. when Powell says, "frankly I welcome inflation, it will only be temporary" he is just a wanker cause he has no idea what it's like to struggle, and he should know it won't be temporary, capitalism is notorious for never lowering prices once they have an excuse to initially raise them.


----------



## phill (May 13, 2021)

I think he likes the attention, good or bad it seems....  That Bitcoin dropping a bit now!!


----------



## moproblems99 (May 13, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> This guy just loves to put a target on himself in the media.   He's clearly not stupid, but there's some aspect of stupid to him.
> 
> I don't believe the news moves the markets, I think it's the other way around, but here it is :
> 
> ...



I have been trying to understand this phenomenon myself.  And I can't.  Elon Musk is to the crypto, and some micro extent the financial, world as Kim Kardashian is to the YouTube world.  It just drives shit nuts and I can't figure that out.


----------



## R-T-B (May 13, 2021)

trog100 said:


> the thought is the fed have lost control.. inflation will kick in big and they wont be able to stop it.. what happens then is a genuine unknown but the outcome aint expected to be good..
> 
> trog


And see, I'm saying I don't buy that.  But we shall certainly see!  That's the way the cookie crumbles and all that...



lynx29 said:


> in a way fiat already has failed for some people in United States. imagine you are on a fixed income of $850 a month (lot of people on disability get around this, maybe a little more maybe a little less)
> 
> now imagine 2 years ago you went to grocery store and bought a pound of beef for $3.50, and now you go and it's $6.99 --- yet your disability income only went up like an extra 10 or 20 a month.  but the prices raised for products across the board...
> 
> ...


I meant "fail" as in "worthless / unusable"


----------



## moproblems99 (May 13, 2021)

I also want to write a trading program that trades crypto based off musk's tweets.  Anyone wanna stop, collaborate, and listen?


----------



## Space Lynx (May 13, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> I have been trying to understand this phenomenon myself.  And I can't.  Elon Musk is to the crypto, and some micro extent the financial, world as Kim Kardashian is to the YouTube world.  It just drives shit nuts and I can't figure that out.



he did admit on SNL he has asperger's.  my best friend also has asperger's.  my guess is this is the reason he does what he does... he is a rich billionaire, genius at some things... but other things like emotional intelligence, he probably struggles with immensely. probably effects some of his decision making in this regard.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 13, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> I have been trying to understand this phenomenon myself.  And I can't.  Elon Musk is to the crypto, and some micro extent the financial, world as Kim Kardashian is to the YouTube world.  It just drives shit nuts and I can't figure that out.



Well Bitcoin was already down, about 40% of todays decline corresponds to the timing of that tweet, the other 60% of the decline had already happened.  

I would wager that at least 2/3 of the sudden decline from his tweet will be retraced though, if it hasn't already been.  'Gaps' in market prices as they say are almost always 50%+ filled regardless if the gap is up or down - some people actually just trade gaps.  

There may be more lasting structural damage from Bitcoin not being accepted as payment, I have no idea what % of Tesla's were sold for bitcoin.  That tweet also makes me think Tesla is liquidating its Bitcoins.



lynx29 said:


> he did admit on SNL he has asperger's.  my best friend also has asperger's.  my guess is this is the reason he does what he does... he is a rich billionaire, genius at some things... but other things like emotional intelligence, he probably struggles with immensely. probably effects some of his decision making in this regard.



I was not aware of that (that he has Asperger's).  Good info thanks.


----------



## trog100 (May 13, 2021)

the tweet basically said they were no longer accepting bitcoin as payment but were not selling their bitcoin.. concerns about excessive power usage was mentioned.. or in simple terms bitcoin isnt green enough for them..

what the guys motivations are for saying what he said  i havnt a clue and i aint gonna speculate on them ether..

trog

ps.. bitcoin does look under threat at the moment..


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 13, 2021)

trog100 said:


> the tweet basically said they were no longer accepting bitcoin as payment but were not selling their bitcoin.. concerns about excessive power usage was mentioned.. or in simple terms bitcoin isnt green enough for them..
> 
> what the guys motivations are for saying what he said  i havnt a clue and i aint gonna speculate on them ether..
> 
> ...




If you take this tweet literally it makes absolutely no sense.  They're going to hold them until bitcoin... "transitions to more sustainable energy"?   How's bitcoin going to do that when most of it is "made" in China, which is still gangbusters on coal?

I think they will get rid of it.  They're under no obligation to tell people when.   It will be interesting to see how this looks on their balance sheet in another quarter.

I think it's a lot more likely they'll go to something like the Chinese yuan crypto, China would love that as it would legitimize their "crypto".   Crypto is a buzzword now, but most people have no idea why it was favored in the darker reaches of the internet (anonymity and security).  

But that's not what the Chinese crypto is, this crypto will track your ass and keep a log of everything you do.  Secure from everyone, except the Gov't.  That's where this will end up. 

The most secure transactions are still in cold hard cash.


----------



## 64K (May 13, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> If you take this tweet literally it makes absolutely no sense.  They're going to hold them until bitcoin... "transitions to more sustainable energy"?   How's bitcoin going to do that when most of it is "made" in China, which is still gangbusters on coal?
> 
> I think they will get rid of it.  They're under no obligation to tell people when.   It will be interesting to see how this looks on their balance sheet in another quarter.
> 
> ...



Electricity is subsidized by the Chinese Government. It's pretty cheap there. There has been some talk about doing away with the subsidy by their Government Leaders because it was intended to help out the poor and never intended to help miners.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 13, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> The most secure transactions are still in cold hard cash.



Anything with a serial number 'could' be tracked.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 13, 2021)

64K said:


> Electricity is subsidized by the Chinese Government. It's pretty cheap there. There has been some talk about doing away with the subsidy by their Government Leaders because it was intended to help out the poor and never intended to help miners.



I read in several news incidents that in China the government there has looked at electricity history year over year, and when they see big spikes in residential areas, they ended up raiding a few of them and taking all the miners gear. lol


----------



## 64K (May 13, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I read in several news incidents that in China the government there has looked at electricity history year over year, and when they see big spikes in residential areas, they ended up raiding a few of them and taking all the miners gear. lol



I don't have a problem with people using their own money for mining but it should be illegal to use tax dollars to mine with. Some of the big mining farms are using hundreds of PCs to mine with but there needs to be a way to tax these people to reclaim the tax dollars spent on subsidies. At least give the miners a way to pay. That doesn't help with the pollution though.


----------



## Chomiq (May 13, 2021)

Yeah sure, it has nothing to do with BTC dropping to 50k:


----------



## arczi19 (May 13, 2021)

Wasnt the news that caused it to drop to 50k though?


----------



## trog100 (May 13, 2021)

tesla make solar panels and electric cars.. they are green in colour.. bitcoin is not seen as green.. musk is just trying to play both sides of the card..

having said that the current banking industry uses way more electricity to do its thing than bitcoin ever does.. coiners and no coiners both sides have their own agendas and will push whatever suits them..

trog

ps.. it suits tesla if crypto mining goes more green.. it can easily do this..

on a different note the stock markets look in serious trouble.. we might be seeing the beginning of something big.. crypto will be affected.. they say there is close correlation..


----------



## evernessince (May 13, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> Yeah sure, it has nothing to do with BTC dropping to 50k:
> View attachment 200189



I don't think Musk believes what he's saying about crypto.  He's been jerking around crypto investors for awhile now.  You don't invest the kind of money he has without knowing the environmental impact bitcoin has.  Either he's benefiting from this is some way (and we all know he can make one announcement to recoup any bitcoin losses he may have suffered) whether that be tipping off "friends" or he just likes being the center of attention.  I wouldn't put either options past musk.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 13, 2021)

trog100 said:


> tesla make solar panels and electric cars.. they are green in colour.. bitcoin is not seen as green.. musk is just trying to play both sides of the card..


Which makes him a market manipulator. People are still in denial about corporate involvement in the crypto market.

I am surprised he can get away with so many blatant attempts at undermining and manipulating prices of assets, he even intentionally tanked he's own stock of Tesla once. But then again, this is the US we're talking about, insider trading and market manipulation is the name of the game and nobody ever gets investigated about anything.


----------



## trog100 (May 13, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Which makes him a market manipulator. People are still in denial about corporate involvement in the crypto market.
> 
> I am surprised he can get away with so many blatant attempts at undermining and manipulating prices of assets, he even intentionally tanked he's own stock of Tesla once. But then again, this is the US we're talking about, insider trading and market manipulation is the name of the game and nobody ever gets investigated about anything.



people are in denial about most things.. basically they havnt a clue about how things really work..

trog


----------



## moproblems99 (May 13, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Which makes him a market manipulator. People are still in denial about corporate involvement in the crypto market.



No one's in denial about it.  It's quite clearly obvious.  You seem to think everyone has these grandiose ideas because you stitch together random nonsense and say it was what we thought.

I mean Chase is partnered with Ripple.  Of course Big Corp is in it.  How stupid do you think we are?


----------



## Vya Domus (May 13, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> It's quite clearly obvious.


It wasn't obvious to you or it still is, a couple of comments ago you were quite certain that when the stock market will crash people will flock to crypto as that will presumably go up according to you. As if corporations would want to liquidate their stocks but not their crypto, for some bizarre reason.



moproblems99 said:


> How stupid do you think we are?


It's a question I don't want to answer for many reasons.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 13, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> It wasn't obvious to you or it still is, a couple of comments ago you were quite certain that when the stock market will crash people will flock to crypto as that will presumably go up according to you. As if corporations would want to liquidate their stocks but not heir crypto, for some bizarre reason.
> 
> 
> It's a question I don't want to answer for many reasons.


Oh my Lord.  The skull is thick.  Good day.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 13, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> Oh my Lord.  The skull is thick.  Good day.


Not that I expected any pertinent response from you, every time your beliefs are brought into question you respond with jack since you don't actually know much about anything. You sure like to pretend to, though.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 13, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> Then everyone will.  The stock market is going to go first.  Crypto goes up when people don't trust the markets or assholes in charge of world governments.  Right now, many trust neither.
> 
> Additionally, I am still in the green if all cryptos lose 80% of their value.  Can anyone in the stock market say the same?



@Vya Domus , is this what you meant?  If so, I said everything will [go down]. Crypto is usually high when there is instability.  I didn't say everyone pours in when the market crashes.  Please don't make shit up.

If that wasn't what you meant, that comment was three pages back.  I didn't go back farther than a 'few comments'.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 13, 2021)

You can spin it in which every way you want, you didn't say everything will go down (that was actually my point). What you said was quite clear, "The stock market is going to go first" and that crypto goes up when people don't trust other markets, implying the movement of investors from one to the other.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 13, 2021)

Additionally, it's best you and I stop this conversation.  All I ask is you stop shitting on everyone you don't agree with and carry normal conversations like all the others.

Not so.  Crypto became high because of the instability.  When the markets crash crash, they pull out of all.  Have a good day word spinning but please don't shit on others.  PM me all you want.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 13, 2021)

Yeah, I should stop shitting on everyone while you tell me that I have a thick skull like everyone else does during a normal conversation.

Interesting that you speak for everyone. I shat on everyone, really ? I responded to like 2 or 3 people on here. That's quite an achievement if I managed to do that. My only sin as far as I am concerned is that I don't revere crypto like some do, keep in mind, that's while I actually am invested myself which is hilarious. Realism is quite rare these day, if you don't sit at either end of the spectrum you're gonna have a bad time.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 13, 2021)

Actually, @Vya Domus , I owe you a public apology as I was out of line.

When I went back and reread your post, I was clearly out line.  So please accept my apology.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 13, 2021)

I know I alluded to some not very pleasant remarks as well, it's not my intention, I tend to speak about _a type_ of person not a person in particular.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 13, 2021)

Carry on.


----------



## R-T-B (May 13, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> he did admit on SNL he has asperger's.  my best friend also has asperger's.  my guess is this is the reason he does what he does... he is a rich billionaire, genius at some things... but other things like emotional intelligence, he probably struggles with immensely. probably effects some of his decision making in this regard.


Hell I have Aspergers.  It's not a universal excuse for poor behavior.



arczi19 said:


> Wasnt the news that caused it to drop to 50k though?


Yes.  People are fickle.  Nothing new.  Could be a good time to buy some crypto maybe...  if you play that game.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 13, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Hell I have Aspergers.  It's not a universal excuse for poor behavior.
> 
> 
> Yes.  People are fickle.  Nothing new.  Could be a good time to buy some crypto maybe...  if you play that game.



autism is a very diverse spectrum, he may be a little more on that spectrum than you, the title alone doesn't solidify a certain exact spot on the spectrum.

that being said, I don't think he can excuse his behavior either, he is in fact a genius after all, yet someone how I was smart enough to say the environment thing weeks ago... but apparently he is just catching up...


----------



## moproblems99 (May 13, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Yes. People are fickle. Nothing new. Could be a good time to buy some crypto maybe... if you play that game.



Only if you are looking short term.  I think you'll see the big boys start to play games to bring the market up before they sell.  All the markets are getting hit.

Inflation's reports are bad.  Jobs report is bad.

It is illegal for them to pump the stock market, provided they are prosecuted, but it is not illegal to pump the crypto market, although Musk better be careful with Tesla being invested.  That is a gray area I wouldn't want to be in.  Any case, they will pump the market to make what they can.

I am planning my exit route now.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 13, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> Only if you are looking short term.  I think you'll see the big boys start to play games to bring the market up before they sell.  All the markets are getting hit.
> 
> Inflation's reports are bad.  Jobs report is bad.
> 
> ...



jobs reports is good actually, as of this morning a new report came out and things are looking better already.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 13, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> jobs reports is good actually, as of this morning a new report came out and things are looking better already.


I'm sure.


----------



## dorsetknob (May 13, 2021)

Musk had his wrists / wallet Spanked for his prior twatter posts and the effect they had on the market


----------



## moproblems99 (May 13, 2021)

Just like how Yellen said interest rates would need to go up to support the new spending plan.  Oh wait, three hours later she backtracked when the market plunged.

Please don't make this any more political, I was already an ass once this morning.

Like it or not, transparency is gone in most political climates. You just hope the smoke isn't that hot in case there is a run on PreperationH.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 13, 2021)

fiat was going to exist before or after crypto's birth. bitcoin is using 512 terawatts... imagine if they added in the other coins to this chart... the other tokens, the other infrastructure... the equivalent of aliens landing and adding 15 new countries to the planet literally overnight adding to carbon in the atmosphere. 

now we will see in 10 years if the Earth can adapt, or if mass migration and famine will occur earlier than predicted before these calculations.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 13, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> now we will see in 10 years if the Earth can adapt, or if mass migration and famine will occur earlier than predicted before these calculations.


The environment isn't going to kill us.  It's humanities own fascination with our colon that will get us.

Wut?

In other words, humanity has a fascination with keeping our collective heads up our collective asses .  For some reason, disagreement in beliefs fosters in ability to occupy the same planet.

I hate my phone.  I am done fixing it's shitty typing.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 13, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> The environment isn't going to kill us.  It's humanities own fascination with our colon that will get us.
> 
> Wut?
> 
> ...



We are a very odd species, I give you that. Capable of so much, yet also so little, in the idea that the so much will probably never be obtained, even though we are technically capable of it.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 13, 2021)

Also, that most of our advancements come from weapons of war.


----------



## the54thvoid (May 13, 2021)

Can this thread get any farther off topic?

Yeah, it can. I know a man who once made a jobby egg.

Anyway, please, back on topic


----------



## moproblems99 (May 13, 2021)

@the54thvoid , are we there yet?  And what's a jobby egg, Riggs?


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 13, 2021)

Well Bitcoin already bounced


lynx29 said:


> jobs reports is good actually, as of this morning a new report came out and things are looking better already.




Markets don't move in one direction.  It was chopping in oversold territory yesterday late and rose overnight in futures trading.

I don't think a short term low is in, we should see that late today or sometime tomorrow.  Medium term - out a couple months - this is just getting started.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 13, 2021)

I stayed up until 3am watching it drop, cash in hand..waiting, and bought more. Then this morning I also bought more. Just chunks here and there.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 13, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> I stayed up until 3am watching it drop, cash in hand..waiting, and bought more. Then this morning I also bought more. Just chunks here and there.



Let us know when you sell.

200DMA is around 39k.  Bitcoin broke 50DMA and failed re-test.  Momentum indicators on daily charts are negative.  Weekly too, which means a long term decline, like I noted a few weeks ago.  

Lets see if your gut works better than my charts.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 13, 2021)

And all the other external indicators.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 13, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Let us know when you sell.
> 
> 200DMA is around 39k.  Bitcoin broke 50DMA and failed re-test.  Momentum indicators on daily charts are negative.  Weekly too, which means a long term decline, like I noted a few weeks ago.
> 
> Lets see if your gut works better than my charts.



his gut will probably win actually.

bitcoin is the wild west, and even with Elon bailing it doesn't change the fact the whales know they can manipulate peons from abroad... without punishment. lot of suckers in the world. so zen will probably be ok, it will rise and fall often until countries realize they need to have a pre-requisite in place for banning all crypto from businesses, banks, and exchanges before trade deals can be signed. only America has the trading power to do this sort of brute force tactic, and I am afraid no one is smart enough on either side of the political aisle to implement it.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 13, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Let us know when you sell.
> 
> 200DMA is around 39k.  Bitcoin broke 50DMA and failed re-test.  Momentum indicators on daily charts are negative.  Weekly too, which means a long term decline, like I noted a few weeks ago.
> 
> Lets see if your gut works better than my charts.



I didn't buy much BTC, mostly ETH, MKR, ETC.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 13, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> his gut will probably win actually.
> 
> bitcoin is the wild west, and even with Elon bailing it doesn't change the fact the whales know they can manipulate peons from abroad... without punishment. lot of suckers in the world. so zen will probably be ok, it will rise and fall often until countries realize they need to have a pre-requisite in place for banning all crypto from businesses, banks, and exchanges before trade deals can be signed. only America has the trading power to do this sort of brute force tactic, and I am afraid no one is smart enough on either side of the political aisle to implement it.



I think inflation has caught up with us.  It will be magic (or pure denial) if there isn't a glitch in the matrix.  The big question will be how much does it recover when this batch of those in the know bail out.

I think you have to ride this down turn at this point and eject on the rebound.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 13, 2021)

I been riding this roller coaster for over 10 years. You buy the dip an hold. I am not a Whale so I can't drop 500m in ETH to change the value, but what I can do is what for that to happen and buy and constantly be increasing my pool. IF you look historically you will see that is how it goes in an almost predicable way. So yes, you ride down and buy along the way and wait for the rebound, but don't sell, it this has happened many, many times.

Everyone says the Floor was 50k for BTC, well I always look at the "Floor" as like one of those Chinese man-made Islands or Disney-Land built on a swamp. It is a floor, but sorta squishy. lol. sometimes the floor drops and needs more dirt/infill(money) to stay up.


----------



## phill (May 13, 2021)

I was hoping to catch up in here a bit sooner but it seems to have gone to that "he says she says bull ship" situation...

This was once a peaceful town...  Sorry I'm a little all over the place..  

I did mention to a mate about selling up but it never happened, shame really as we'd have had a pretty penny more than we do now, mot 1000's and certainly not 10000's but a bit more    Oh well, opportunity missed....

How's everyone else's stocks/mining and such going on today?? .....


----------



## R-T-B (May 13, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> Only if you are looking short term.


I wasn't speaking short term.



lynx29 said:


> fiat was going to exist before or after crypto's birth. bitcoin is using 512 terawatts... imagine if they added in the other coins to this chart...


Pretty sure charts like that don't distinguish coins (how could they anyways?) so you can consider them already added.



RandallFlagg said:


> Let us know when you sell.


If he's smart not for a few years at least (usual time for a rebound), or never.  You don't sell at a loss.



phill said:


> How's everyone else's stocks/mining and such going on today?? .....


I don't intend to change a thing, personally.


----------



## phill (May 13, 2021)

I'm a little gutted we never sold at the higher marker but we always do it and miss out lol  The what if's.....    Thing is like you say, you keep hold just in case, if its up down left right, doesn't really matter...  Long term is much more important...


----------



## R-T-B (May 13, 2021)

That's how I feel.  I've invested nothing but electric.  If I lose everything I'm fine.  If I gain a lot, that'd be pretty cool.  But it needs to be like 1000% minimum gains or I'm not going to bother.

I'm in it for a moonshoot, lol.


----------



## phill (May 13, 2021)

Was saying to my mate the other day, I'm not sure I know of anywhere that you can put $200 in to something and get a return in a month (for argument) of nearly 20 times that...  Not even when interest rates where high could you get that much of a pay back.. 
It's definitely awesome that a single payout (0.1 for us) covers the needed bits and pieces for the month, the rest of it is all profit...  Unreal


----------



## trog100 (May 13, 2021)

all is see is a little blip in what is still a crypto  bull market.. i cant help feeling that its all engineered.. 

i will carry on playing the game exactly as before this small pull back engineered or not.. 

trog


----------



## Nuckles56 (May 13, 2021)

phill said:


> I'm a little gutted we never sold at the higher marker but we always do it and miss out lol  The what if's.....    Thing is like you say, you keep hold just in case, if its up down left right, doesn't really matter...  Long term is much more important...


I waited a bit too long to cash out my most recent mining reward, but oh well, that's what happens when you play with crypto


----------



## moproblems99 (May 13, 2021)

I feel like this is different then 2016-2017.  Maybe more like 1926-27.


----------



## 64K (May 13, 2021)

It sounds like for most of you that your investment has increased quite a bit. If your investment has increased then you are doing better than most investors in markets. You don't actually have a profit until you sell or trade for goods and services though.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 13, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> I feel like this is different then 2016-2017.  Maybe more like 1926-27.


More like 1929 as some have predicted.


----------



## phill (May 13, 2021)

64K said:


> It sounds like for most of you that your investment has increased quite a bit. If your investment has increased then you are doing better than most investors in markets. You don't actually have a profit until you sell or trade for goods and services though.


Tis very true and why I say to my mate, if we sell when it's within 10% of the peak and it drops to a stone we've made x amount, but if we wait and it never comes back, then we've lost a lot.  I hope that if anything does happen and it does go bad, we can walk away with a few quid and the hardware we have which isn't a bad thing at all.  

I do it mostly for the hardware anyway, heck I'm still using my 480s I bought for this back in 2017   Be about 5 years ago this month I think!!  Damn not far short, 19th May   Loved it, shocked the crap out of my mate when I sent him the pics!!


----------



## R-T-B (May 14, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> More like 1929 as some have predicted.


Not feeling it, but time will tell.


----------



## Nuckles56 (May 14, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Not feeling it, but time will tell.


I guess it will all depend on how Musk et. al. manipulate the market and how much people buy into his message.


----------



## R-T-B (May 14, 2021)

Nuckles56 said:


> I guess it will all depend on how Musk et. al. manipulate the market and how much people buy into his message.


I was speaking to fiat.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 14, 2021)

I am of the opinion that Musk has large amounts of Doge shell wallets and purchases large amounts when he tweets.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 14, 2021)

Well that was a nice 20% off fire sale yesterday! Already ITM.


----------



## trog100 (May 14, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Well that was a nice 20% off fire sale yesterday! Already ITM.



yep that was about  what it amounted to.. 

trog


----------



## moproblems99 (May 14, 2021)

They are just going to get progressively worse with less rebounds.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 14, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> They are just going to get progressively worse with less rebounds.


Baseless but I appreciate your opinion, but that's all it is. Unless you can see the future...in which case Powerball or MegaMillions is the better way to go.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 14, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Baseless but I appreciate your opinion, but that's all it is. Unless you can see the future...in which case Powerball or MegaMillions is the better way to go.


Oh, I agree totally.  The indicators are there though.



ZenZimZaliben said:


> Baseless but I appreciate your opinion, but that's all it is. Unless you can see the future...in which case Powerball or MegaMillions is the better way to go.


 Btw, I wasn't implying to change your plan.  Only that I think these will be quite common over the coming months.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 14, 2021)

Market gonna tell us the correct direction here in the next 30 mins.  

Patterns and momentum don't look good.


----------



## sepheronx (May 14, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Market gonna tell us the correct direction here in the next 30 mins.
> 
> Patterns and momentum don't look good.



You posted that 50mins ago.

Seems fine on my end


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 14, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> You posted that 50mins ago.
> 
> Seems fine on my end



Didn't get a clear signal either way.  This is what I was watching, contracting triangles at two time levels.  At the apex, it should make a break and in fact did - down.  However, breaks need to run a bit to make sure it's not fake.   This one didn't have time.

Also though, momentum at higher degrees show reversals,  I circled here when I posted that.  This chart is 5 minute scale.  The inner channel is from 1 minute scale and outer lines are from 1 hr.








Close up of above chart  - so yeah something did happen but it isnt clear.  That is a 70 point move down in about 5 minutes.







1Hr chart.  Momentum, the macd with the red line is turning over but not yet down:


----------



## Outback Bronze (May 14, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Market gonna tell us the correct direction here in the next 30 mins.
> 
> Patterns and momentum don't look good.



Yes they do not look good from my perspective.

Lower lows and lower highs is what I've been seeing, but I'm not so sure we have hit a bear market just yet although it could definitely be on the cards.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 15, 2021)

@sepheronx  how come your youtuber you follow with crypto advice never told you to invest in Shibu or w.e the crap the parody coin was called of dogecoin... just read about these two guys that put a couple hundred bucks into this coin in February this year, and cashed out just recently and are now millionaires... in less than 3 months. off a few hundred bucks. lmao.

please ask your youtube prophet why he never told you to buy that one. i'm curious to know his answer


----------



## R-T-B (May 15, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> please ask your youtube prophet why he never told you to buy that one. i'm curious to know his answer


Isn't that the one that just tanked through the floor because 5% of circulating coins (valued at $1B at the time) were just randomly dropped by the creators in Indian Covid relief (a bizzare choice because India hates crypto, and it as predicted, tanked the coin big time?)

I'd seriously wonder if those rando dudes are still millionaires.  I hope they cashed out.

EDIT.  Wow that coins value is limbo low....


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 15, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> Yes they do not look good from my perspective.
> 
> Lower lows and lower highs is what I've been seeing, but I'm not so sure we have hit a bear market just yet although it could definitely be on the cards.



I'll just leave ya'll with this :

"Dow theory asserts that major market trends are composed of three phases: an accumulation phase, a public participation (or absorption) phase, and a distribution phase. The accumulation phase (_phase 1_) is a period when investors "in the know" are actively buying (selling) stock against the general opinion of the market. During this phase, the stock price does not change much because these investors are in the minority demanding (absorbing) stock that the market at large is supplying (releasing). Eventually, the market catches on to these astute investors and a rapid price change occurs (_phase 2_). This occurs when trend followers and other technically oriented investors participate. *This phase continues until rampant speculation occurs. At this point, the astute investors begin to distribute their holdings to the market *(_phase 3_)."

So, "astuste investors" selling? :









						Billionaires Are Selling Mega-Sized Stock Blocks After Surge
					

(Bloomberg) -- Stock sales are reaping a windfall for the world’s richest shareholders.Corporate insiders including Amazon.com’s Jeff Bezos and Google co-founder Sergey Brin have ramped up stock sales recently, cashing in on a 14-month long bull market that’s helped boost fortunes to the tune of...




					finance.yahoo.com
				













						Hedge funds and professional money managers keep selling stocks
					

With euphoria taking over the stock market, so-called smart money investors like hedge funds and asset managers at major investment firms are hitting the sell button, expecting prices to fall.What we're hearing: Retail traders were the only group to buy U.S. equities for the third week in a row...




					news.yahoo.com
				




Rampant speculation? :









						Retail investors are still buying stocks
					

The stars of the show in financial markets during the first quarter of 2021 were retail traders.




					nz.finance.yahoo.com
				





The three phases?  Perhaps :


----------



## Space Lynx (May 15, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Isn't that the one that just tanked through the floor because 5% of circulating coins (valued at $1B at the time) were just randomly dropped by the creators in Indian Covid relief (a bizzare choice because India hates crypto, and it as predicted, tanked the coin big time?)
> 
> I'd seriously wonder if those rando dudes are still millionaires.  I hope they cashed out.
> 
> EDIT.  Wow that coins value is limbo low....



from what i read in that article they cashed out, they are millionaires. the article said they were poor most of their lives and bought the coin as a joke with last of their money as a kind of infinite card lottery ticket. 

like i said in my previous advice if you can cash out to increase your quality of life x amount with fiat, than do so. some states have caps on property tax as well, so move to one of those states, buy a house in cash, and retire early.


----------



## R-T-B (May 15, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> from what i read in that article they cashed out, they are millionaires. the article said they were poor most of their lives and bought the coin as a joke with last of their money as a kind of infinite card lottery ticket.
> 
> like i said in my previous advice if you can cash out to increase your quality of life x amount with fiat, than do so. some states have caps on property tax as well, so move to one of those states, buy a house in cash, and retire early.


I do like your logic.  Get enough to be happy, and get out.  I relate.


----------



## Outback Bronze (May 15, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Get enough to be happy



Prob is I'm never happy


----------



## Space Lynx (May 15, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> Prob is I'm never happy



that's the problem for a lot of people. 95% of people I know have already blown their 1400 dollar government check on dumb crap.  or on a junk car that will break down in a year.

i haven't spent a penny of mine. i'm hodling my fiat until i can buy a log cabin in the woods along with a small amount of land. and i happen to live in a state that has capped property taxes, so i should never be run out by rising gentrification. 

here is to hoping in 12-20 years I can retire in peace near a lake/pond that isn't busy, and be alone with my books and art and games.


----------



## Outback Bronze (May 15, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> already blown their 1400 dollar


 
That's what the government wants and why they gave it too  you, trying to stimulate some sort of economy. But did/does it work?


----------



## Space Lynx (May 15, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> That's what the government wants and why they gave it too  you, trying to stimulate some sort of economy. But did/does it work?



doubtful it works honestly. it was undermined by the unemployment benefit bonuses, until people get back to work its all useless and rising inflation is going to destroy all. the pfizer and moderna vaccine have saved the day, if you don't want to get it that's fine, but its time to get back to work, no more bonus to unemployment. people got by in the past without any bonus.


----------



## sepheronx (May 15, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> @sepheronx  how come your youtuber you follow with crypto advice never told you to invest in Shibu or w.e the crap the parody coin was called of dogecoin... just read about these two guys that put a couple hundred bucks into this coin in February this year, and cashed out just recently and are now millionaires... in less than 3 months. off a few hundred bucks. lmao.
> 
> please ask your youtube prophet why he never told you to buy that one. i'm curious to know his answer



I got Shibu.  I got 3M of them lol.

He calls them Joke coins.  He aims mostly at solid coins like btc, etc, eth, rvn, octopus.

If you are eager for an answer, why not ask him yourself?

his handle is: bitsbetrippin

Also, my Cardano (ADA) is doing well too.  Bought at $1.9CAD and now it is $2.7CAD.

BTC is hovering still at around $60K CAD and Ethereum around $4800CAD.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 15, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> I got Shibu.  I got 3M of them lol.



shame you didn't cash out for fiat like those two guys did with it at its peak.


----------



## xkm1948 (May 15, 2021)

Nicehash disabled coin transfer to Coinbase. Fishy. Get your stuff out of ASAP into offline wallet ASAP


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 15, 2021)

It's not Fishy. Coinbases API can't handle the volume coming from NiceHash. They need to fix it by adding a bunch of infrastucture to handle all the requests. This is NiceHash's way of saying do it or look at all the Crypto you wont' be able to hold and leverage. Smart move. BUT you should never leave all you coins in ANY exchange, keep some for trading. If you don't have a wallet better be getting one!


----------



## Space Lynx (May 15, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> It's not Fishy. Coinbases API can't handle the volume coming from NiceHash. They need to fix it by adding a bunch of infrastucture to handle all the requests. This is NiceHash's way of saying do it or look at all the Crypto you wont' be able to hold and leverage. Smart move. BUT you should never leave all you coins in ANY exchange, keep some for trading. If you don't have a wallet better be getting one!



interesting concept, I have no problem leaving all my fiat in one bank.  Kappa


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 15, 2021)

Hey banks are FDIC insured. If you had a pile of Gold you wouldn't leave it at a Gold Exchange either. This applies to any commodity. Fiat isn't a commodity, in the traditional sense at least.


----------



## trog100 (May 15, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> interesting concept, I have no problem leaving all my fiat in one bank.  Kappa



your money isnt in the bank.. its used by the bank to gamble with as they see fit.. you dont get much of a reward for doing this ether.. 

trog


----------



## moproblems99 (May 16, 2021)

trog100 said:


> you dont get much of a reward for doing this ether..


I get reward for doing ether.  I get....eth.


----------



## trog100 (May 16, 2021)

just for the record my nicehash four hourly payouts are down by %50 to around $12.5 dollars from 730 M/sh.. i am not sure how it all works out.. i could never figure out why they went so high or why they are coming down so much.. he he

bitcoin is around $49000 and around eth 3800.. eth seems to be dropping more than bitcoin.. purely my oppinion but i think we are near a bottom.. but i could be wrong.. 

trog


----------



## Final_Fighter (May 16, 2021)

trog100 said:


> just for the record my nicehash four hourly payouts are down by %50 to around $12.5 dollars from 730 M/sh.. i am not sure how it all works out.. i could never figure out why they went so high or why they are coming down so much.. he he
> 
> bitcoin is around $49000 and around eth 3800.. eth seems to be dropping more than bitcoin.. purely my oppinion but i think we are near a bottom.. but i could be wrong..
> 
> trog


I believe part of the reason for the dip was market manipulation along with taxes. This year's taxes witch are almost past file date if I'm not mistaken asked if you trade crypto.i know I've traded literally hundreds of times and I know others have too. The question now on everybody's mind is are they going to try and tax all of those transactions? I personally don't think so and they are certainly going to have a hard time enforcing it. It's more sensible to just tax it when it gets transfered back into fiat. That's how I've always done it. Tax laws are still in there infancy with crypto and the feds are still teething. The big tax scare should be behind us for now and the markets will more than likely correct.


----------



## phill (May 16, 2021)

trog100 said:


> just for the record my nicehash four hourly payouts are down by %50 to around $12.5 dollars from 730 M/sh.. i am not sure how it all works out.. i could never figure out why they went so high or why they are coming down so much.. he he
> 
> bitcoin is around $49000 and around eth 3800.. eth seems to be dropping more than bitcoin.. purely my oppinion but i think we are near a bottom.. but i could be wrong..
> 
> trog


Two words @trog100 ....  Block Reward.....






I've taken a real rough guesstimate of power and hash rate...  But tune it for your own needs - Click me to check profitablity

Two things really effect Eth production, difficulty and block reward.  When the block rewards where upwards of 5.00 it was a lot more than what they are currently...  Keep an eye to it as it will change minute to minute.  Even if you check once a day, I'm sure it'll be more or less   Obviously the price has a little to do with it, since it can be higher or lower, still takes the same time to mine a coin, but the reward at the end is greater.  I think we've seen profit of over 3000% when it was hitting the $4400 marker...  I think it's about the 1500% marker at the moment but that's just because of the electric costs.  Add a few cents to a Kw and it drops hard.

Obviously the price of Eth matters as well but at the same time the faster the payouts which are related to block rewards, the more coin you'll earn even with the same hashrate.  There's two things as I'm sure you know won't change much, the cost of your electric and the hash rate you have (unless you build more rigs/use more cards)

I find it interesting to follow, it's amazing to see how much difference it can make


----------



## sepheronx (May 16, 2021)

Right now everyone is pissed at nicehash (including myself) cause they disabled coinbase withdrawal.  But people are reporting you can still do it....for a fee.

I am also looking at Cudo miner as well.  It gives you an option what coin to be paid out in as well.


----------



## phill (May 16, 2021)

Another reason for not using Nicehash I'm afraid.  It might be easy to setup and work with, but at what cost down the road??  

I'd suggest a different pool, offline wallet.  Keep it safe.


----------



## sepheronx (May 16, 2021)

phill said:


> Another reason for not using Nicehash I'm afraid.  It might be easy to setup and work with, but at what cost down the road??
> 
> I'd suggest a different pool, offline wallet.  Keep it safe.



yeah, I am thinking of buying a offline wallet.


----------



## phill (May 16, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> yeah, I am thinking of buying a offline wallet.


Do it and know whatever you have is safe...  Unless you loose it or the key   But at least it's still safe!!


----------



## trog100 (May 16, 2021)

okay two words "block rewards"..  but what has caused the rewards to be half of what they were a couple of days back... as you say it isnt the price so what is it.. ??

trog


----------



## phill (May 16, 2021)

trog100 said:


> okay two words "block rewards"..  but what has caused the rewards to be half of what they were a couple of days back... as you say it isnt the price so what is it.. ??
> 
> trog


I believe Trog it's the amount of transactions done...  The higher the number, the higher the block reward.  That's why it generally only goes nuts for a few days....    As it's hoovering about the 3800 marker or was the last I checked few hours ago, it's low as there's not many transactions going through..  

Another sell off I guess since Eth is at 3700 now...  Just around the 300,000 transactions for this 24 hours according to coinbase...


----------



## Zach_01 (May 16, 2021)

Also the ETH transaction fee is not a stable amount. The less it costs the less the reward for the confirmation on the blockchain

The transaction fee is called GAS and its measured in Gwei.
1.000.000.000Gwei = 1ETH











						Cryptocurrency Prices, Charts And Market Capitalizations | CoinMarketCap
					

Top cryptocurrency prices and charts, listed by market capitalization. Free access to current and historic data for Bitcoin and thousands of altcoins.




					coinmarketcap.com
				












						Ethereum Gas Tracker | Etherscan
					

Gas Snapshot Price at 11/17/2022 7:54:18 PM UTC - Low: 20 gwei | Avg: 20 gwei | High: 21 gwei




					etherscan.io
				




From graph above (gastracker) you can see that confirmation time has dropped significantly, meaning that either the mining hashrate has increased or amount of transactions decreased. Either way rewards decrease.


----------



## trog100 (May 16, 2021)

so my next question would be.. exactly what caused such a dramatic increase in transactions followed by a similar fall off..  he he..

my nicehash estimated daily payouts went as high as $226 dollars a day now now they at $76.. one hell of a difference..

what was the actual root cause of all this activity.. ??

trog


----------



## sepheronx (May 16, 2021)

So I am looking for alternatives to nicehash.

unhappy how they pulled free transactions from nicehash to coinbase.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 16, 2021)

trog100 said:


> just for the record my nicehash four hourly payouts are down by %50 to around $12.5 dollars from 730 M/sh.. i am not sure how it all works out.. i could never figure out why they went so high or why they are coming down so much.. he he
> 
> bitcoin is around $49000 and around eth 3800.. eth seems to be dropping more than bitcoin.. purely my oppinion but i think we are near a bottom.. but i could be wrong..
> 
> trog



Actually Eth, from a TA standpoint, is showing sell signals on hourly charts.  Before it was just on 15 minute / 30 minute charts and lower time scales.  

The weekly chart has not yet rolled over to sell signals, though it appears to be getting close.  It does show overbought on both RSI and MFI.  Overbought is usually where smart money sells.

Basically what all that means is it has lost momentum, like a car going up hill and slowing, slowing slowing, right now it's stalled on a weekly basis and rolling backwards on lower time scales.  The momentum tells you that new buyers are not entering as quickly as sellers are, and in the end the price is all about having more buyers than sellers, or vice versa.


----------



## Outback Bronze (May 16, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> rolling backwards



Looks like the ball has started to roll. Actually, I think it started a couple of weeks ago. Will be interesting to see where the ball stops.

Is it just a few headwinds in a Bull market or do you think the Bear has got its claws in?


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 16, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> Looks like the ball has started to roll. Actually, I think it started a couple of weeks ago. Will be interesting to see where the ball stops.
> 
> Is it just a few headwinds in a Bull market or do you think the Bear has got its claws in?



This is the most basic TA method below, that is trend channels.  The way to use it goes back 100+ years, to Charles Dow. 

When the trend channel is established you look for a break of the trend line of >3% of the total value.  3% of ETH at 4000 would be 120.   Doing this allows you to participate in the bulk of a move up while minimizing losses down.  The idea is not to catch the peak or the trough, but the get into the middle part of a rise and get out before the middle part of a decline. 

This is a _*1hr chart*_.  The MACD is starting to flatten now on the bottom (_*slightly bullish*_) and it is now showing *oversold* (slightly bullish) on money flow and *nearly oversold* on RSI. 

This looks like a reversal to the upside (*on hourly*) forming up but *there is no buy signal* (see previous rules).

*I would *not* buy this right now*, because -* look at the daily chart below this*.







*Trend line broken by > 3% on daily.
MACD 9 / 13 EMA crossed -bearish.
RSI and money flow coming off of extended overbought readings.*

This thing has *no support until it hits the 2000- 2600 range*.


----------



## phill (May 16, 2021)

Looks like it's going to drop a fair bit more one might guess.....


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 16, 2021)

phill said:


> Looks like it's going to drop a fair bit more one might guess.....



It's going to bounce on an hourly chart but the daily is decidedly negative.  The last uptrend on hourly only gave about 4 or 5 hours up then it went down.  Traders would call that 'whipsaw' because as soon as they get a buy signal, a few ticks (hours in this case as that is the charts time frame) later they get a sell signal.   

Daily trend is down until it establishes and then breaks the top trend channel on daily chart.


----------



## sepheronx (May 16, 2021)

phill said:


> Looks like it's going to drop a fair bit more one might guess.....


You should seethe battles raging on Reddit.  Rather funny.


----------



## trog100 (May 16, 2021)

the thing is this aint the dow its crypto... charts dont mean much if whale manipulations are going on.. i think they are.. 

come back in a week and see where things are.. 

trog


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 17, 2021)

trog100 said:


> the thing is this aint the dow its crypto... charts dont mean much if whale manipulations are going on.. i think they are..
> 
> come back in a week and see where things are..
> 
> trog



If everyone believed in charts, they would not work.  The fact that most people cannot conceive of herd behavior showing up in a chart is why it still works 100 years later.  In a world where we are taught that we are individuals with individual opinions, evidence that goes against that is typically dismissed.  Bringing us back to the first sentence.

Edit: Also, I said multiple times that the *weekly* chart has not signal a reversal yet - but MACD EMA's are flattening meaning a reversal (to the downside) may be coming.  The weekly trendline sits around 2600 as of today.







And the hourly chart reversal I mentioned is close but is not yet enough to signal a buy.  Needs to come >+3% over the trendline and that is at 3580 at this hour.  It's about 15 points shy.  I would also look for the 9/14 EMA lines to cross, circled in red, to confirm a buy signal on hourly chart.   

Based on the 30 / 15 min charts, that rise looks like a head fake.   That is why there is the 3% rule.  At 1 hr level it's lost downward momentum and is curving up, at 5 min level it's lost upwards momentum and is curving down.  






5 min chart :


----------



## Rithsom (May 17, 2021)

It's looking really bad for crypto at the moment. Bitcoin is now at $42,500 and dropping rapidly...

EDIT: Maybe things are stabilizing for the night. Today was definitely an exciting day for crypto, nonetheless.


----------



## Hardcore Games (May 17, 2021)

Hard to say where the supply/demand is reached by with Musk selling, wonder who is next?


----------



## trog100 (May 17, 2021)

i think the entire crypto market was getting a little too euphoric.. maybe a little dab on the brakes is a good thing.. today is a sea of red for sure.

what elon musk is up to isnt clear.. if he sells bitcoin there will be plenty of other whales happy to buy.. long term bitcoin is still what it is.. it isnt that fragile..

it does seem twitter is a dangerous place to do too much mouthing off.. maybe elon needs to learn this.. he he

trog


----------



## Vya Domus (May 17, 2021)

trog100 said:


> what elon musk is up to isnt clear



Tip off rich buddies to sell, short and buy back in ? I don't know but at the same time I am not buying the idea that he's just a troll. He is well versed in selling pipe dreams and manipulating investors.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 17, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Tip off rich buddies to sell, short and buy back in ? I don't know but at the same time I am not buying the idea that he's just a troll. He is well versed in selling pipe dreams and manipulating investors.



I am quite certain Musk amongst others hyped up certain crypto's so they could sell into the eurphoria from unsophisticated investors.   They basically took a bunch of stupid people's money. 

That said I don't think Musk can move an entire market himself.  One or two cryptos yes for a week or a few days yes, but not everything.   As example of this, the CMC200 crypto index is up today even as Bitcoin and Eth tanked. 

The problem with investing in Crypto though, is as Warren Buffet pointed out.  In the 1920s there were like 1000 auto companies (in the US).  Only 3 survived and two of those went bankrupt 10 years ago.   Crypto if it survives will likely be some variation on that theme.


----------



## trog100 (May 17, 2021)

a lot of fuss about nothing...musk decides bitcoin is a good store of value.. to get more of it he sells his cars for bitcoin.. 

he gets lots of flack for doing this cos nasty old bitcoin aint green enough.. he engages in a damages limitation exercise and says no more cars for bitcoin.. elon needs to be seen as green..

this all gets blown out of proportion and elon gets blamed for crashing the crypto markets which were well over extended and due for a pull back anyway.. 

weak and silly hands have been flushed out and things are back on the same course they were on but in a more healthy state..

trog


----------



## Vya Domus (May 17, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> The problem with investing in Crypto though, is as Warren Buffet pointed out.  In the 1920s there were like 1000 auto companies (in the US).  Only 3 survived and two of those went bankrupt 10 years ago.   Crypto if it survives will likely be some variation on that theme.



The difference is now everyone can launch a new coin just by sitting in front of a computer with more or less zero costs. The fact that some grow to have a multi billion dollar market cap in less than a couple of years is bringing in a new dynamic that didn't exist before.


----------



## trog100 (May 18, 2021)

well the "scare" seems to be over.. bitcoin seems to have bottomed around 42K and is now back up to 45K.. eth is back up to 3500..

i firmly believe this is all whale manipulation.. their intention is to scare out the weak and foolish players and scoop up whats there..

where the price is now isnt important its where its gonna be in the future that matters..

trog


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 18, 2021)

trog100 said:


> well the "scare" seems to be over.. bitcoin seems to have bottomed around 42K and is now back up to 45K.. eth is back up to 3500..
> 
> i firmly believe this is all whale manipulation.. their intention is to scare out the weak and foolish players and scoop up whats there..
> 
> ...



ETH has curved up on 1hr and 4 hr charts, but on a daily basis its still down somewhat.  Weekly basis it's just getting going.  

Dead Cat Bounce


----------



## trog100 (May 18, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> ETH has curved up on 1hr and 4 hr charts, but on a daily basis its still down somewhat.  Weekly basis it's just getting going.
> 
> Dead Cat Bounce



as long as the cat keeps hitting the 42K level and bouncing i will be happy.. 

trog


----------



## ppn (May 18, 2021)

Yeah every time the cat is bouncing 10% there is like 6% return to be made minus the exchange rate 1,6%-2,6%, that is a lot of money even on the way down,.. the line is already drawn obviously.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 18, 2021)

ppn said:


> Yeah every time the cat is bouncing 10% there is like 6% return to be made minus the exchange rate 1,6%-2,6%, that is a lot of money even on the way down,.. the line is already drawn obviously.
> View attachment 200786



I wouldn't buy the lower trend line.  Best place to make money is if/when it breaks the upper trend line by a solid > 3% of the price, then check momentum indicators as it usually declines a bit after that for an entry point provided it does not go back into the prior trend channel.   This type of trading works about 60-70% of the time.  

The problem with buying lower trend channel is that it can break that channel too, which would likely mean a real crash.   The sell signal actually occurred a long time ago and the buy signal has not yet materialized using that method.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 18, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Tip off rich buddies to sell, short and buy back in ?



He has different agendas with different coins.  BTC is all about cronyism.



ppn said:


> Yeah every time the cat is bouncing 10% there is like 6% return to be made minus the exchange rate 1,6%-2,6%, that is a lot of money even on the way down,.. the line is already drawn obviously.
> View attachment 200786


That isn't a lot of head room to make decisions in where you are jumping in and out though.


----------



## trog100 (May 18, 2021)

bitcoin is hovering around the 43K mark.. so far the dead cat is bouncing just enough.. he he..

eth has broken away a tad and is now at 3450.. this entire thing just has to be whale manipulation.. 

trog


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 19, 2021)

IDK I picked up more eth around 3100 so hope it stays above that, but if it doesn't will be buying more. LOL. I don't think ETH is going anywhere especially with staking. Only took 32 to become a full validator.


----------



## Final_Fighter (May 19, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> IDK I picked up more eth around 3100 so hope it stays above that, but if it doesn't will be buying more. LOL. I don't think ETH is going anywhere especially with staking. Only took 32 to become a full validator.


im starting to think that btc is going to just crash. eth is to hard to manipulate sense there will always be more in circulation so at least there is that. binance smart chain looks like it will follow eth until eth2.0 is around. btc now has to much negative pr and selling pressure now. 

i think eth will be fine.


----------



## Rithsom (May 19, 2021)

So much for crypto going "_To the MOOOOON_!!!" ...


----------



## Zach_01 (May 19, 2021)

Rithsom said:


> View attachment 200871
> 
> 
> So much for crypto going "_To the MOOOOON_!!!" ...



You can hate all you want. You are even entitled to blow some steam from time to time for the sake of sanity...


----------



## Rithsom (May 19, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> You can hate all you want. You are even entitled to blow some steam from time to time for the sake of sanity...
> 
> View attachment 200872



I know. I'm just trying to be funny. However it was highly annoying for me when people around here were exclaiming that stupid phrase like it was some sort of chant...


----------



## sepheronx (May 19, 2021)

Rithsom said:


> I know. I'm just trying to be funny. However it was highly annoying for me when people around here were exclaiming that stupid phrase like it was some sort of chant...



I know!  To the moon?  Why aim so low anyway?  Why not To Mars! or something along those lines.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 19, 2021)

The overall crypto index CMC200 just gave the bearish cross on MACD weekly chart after 5 months of new highs on a diverging RSI.  

Expect a bloodbath in the coming weeks.  13.5% down tonight.  My first guess would be the 50 DMA which is just below 600 is the first really solid stop, maybe in a few weeks or months.





Oh and uhmm Etherium:


----------



## Metroid (May 19, 2021)

bloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Space Lynx (May 19, 2021)

Hardcore Games said:


> Hard to say where the supply/demand is reached by with Musk selling, wonder who is next?



Musk sold his Bitcoin do you have a news article to prove this? I searched it and don't see that anywhere. He stopped accepting Bitcoin, but he never sold his to my knowledge. If he did, I wouldn't be surprised to see Bitcoin have another dip down to 30k range or so.


----------



## Tomgang (May 19, 2021)

Oh bitcoin is down to below 40K now. Is this what I and other gamers are waiting for. The crash of bitcoin. I hope so. It's really frustrating not to be alble to get a rtx card.

But it has been seen before it rising right up again. It just need a good news of something and bitcoin can sky rocket again.

Well time will tell if this is the end or bitcoin will surge again. Please crash, seriously. Just crash.


----------



## sepheronx (May 19, 2021)

Not just that, A massive purchase of bitcoin was made by MicroStrategy and Saylor.

ETH on the other hand may go proof of stake in a few months. Much earlier than previously claimed.


----------



## Outback Bronze (May 19, 2021)

trog100 said:


> seems to be over



Looks like you were wrong pal.. Could even be more blood on the streets.


----------



## 64K (May 19, 2021)

Could be headed for a panic sell. From the coindesk site:


----------



## Final_Fighter (May 19, 2021)

64K said:


> Could be headed for a panic sell. From the coindesk site:
> 
> View attachment 200896


it looks that way. i pulled my stacks and will hold it in stables right now. ill enter back when the market stabilizes. this is 2018 all over again and ill let things play out. should wipe away a lot of coins and let us see witch ones are worth getting back into.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 19, 2021)

Tomgang said:


> Oh bitcoin is down to below 40K now. Is this what I and other gamers are waiting for. The crash of bitcoin. I hope so.



You are barking at the wrong tree, will people ever figure this out ? It's not bitcoin that's making you unable to buy a GPU, it's ETH and it's still doing pretty good. Enough to be profitable, anyway.


----------



## trog100 (May 19, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> Looks like you were wrong pal.. Could even be more blood on the streets.



yep you could be right.. he he

40K is definitely a panic sell trigger.. i thought it would hold at 42K but it looks like i was wrong.. i will keep mining  hold and see what happens.. it would be a shame i if 2018 does repeat.. kind of boring..

trog

ps.. some crystal ball talk.. now if i had of sold back in 2018 at 18k bought back in at 3k and sold again at 60K and kept mining through the slump period.. hmm..


----------



## Vya Domus (May 19, 2021)

I don't think this is a classic "bitcoin bubble crash", because we didn't really have a bubble as such, the circumstances for that do not align at the moment (at least according to past occurrences). BTC price was actually tracking predicted models pretty well, there was nothing out of the ordinary. So there is something else happening, I don't think it's all just panic selling either.

I am suspicious and skeptic by nature, I think the global ATH for this year is yet to come, there could something intentional about what's happening right now.


----------



## Tomgang (May 19, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> You are barking at the wrong tree, will people ever figure this out ? It's not bitcoin that's making you unable to buy a GPU, it's ETH and it's still doing pretty good. Enough to be profitable, anyway.


Oh so it's ETH. I have hornestly not spent much time on what ETH is and how it works. But it's saddens me that it's still doing well. 

I just hope for a crast and that ETH doesn't recover again as we have seen before it does. It's so frustrating not be able to get a decent gpu these days. Specially as I exspext next month I can finish my new build and just need gpu for it. Well a better gpu. Does have a gtx 1660 super, but i want rtx 3080 or maybe TI.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 19, 2021)

I bet the Board of Directors at Tesla going to be mad if Elon doesn't sell his lot soon...

Will lose their only net income profit year they had in company history... LOL


----------



## Vya Domus (May 19, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Will lose their only net income profit year they had in company history... LOL


I think they also posted profits last year, still, Tesla is a joke of a company in my opinion.


----------



## trog100 (May 19, 2021)

the thing is.. has it all topped and will it  keep going down or will it bottom at some whale determined point and start going up again.. as yet its still an unknown..

it has just had a little bounce and is still above 40K..

trog


----------



## 64K (May 19, 2021)

A panic sell isn't necessarily a bad thing. It could be a serious warning or it could be a good buying opportunity. Warren Buffett once said:

_"Be fearful when others are greedy. Be greedy when others are fearful.”_






It's up to the investor to understand the risks and the investment and decide accordingly.


----------



## phill (May 19, 2021)

Seen it had all gone a little pear shaped this morning...  Kind of a shame but meh  Still way over what it was, so grateful for that 

Going down further now, Eth about the 2800 marker, bitcoin a little under 39000....  That what if I had sold comes into it again don't you think @trog100 ??


----------



## Space Lynx (May 19, 2021)

phill said:


> Seen it had all gone a little pear shaped this morning...  Kind of a shame but meh  Still way over what it was, so grateful for that
> 
> Going down further now, Eth about the 2800 marker, bitcoin a little under 39000....  That what if I had sold comes into it again don't you think @trog100 ??




No one ever listens to me. /shrug


----------



## phill (May 19, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> No one ever listens to me. /shrug


Did I miss something @lynx29 ?   Apologies, at work and well...


----------



## Space Lynx (May 19, 2021)

phill said:


> Did I miss something @lynx29 ?   Apologies, at work and well...



Ask @ZenZimZaliben he knows what I am referring to 

my philosophy crap that no one ever listens to me on. @Zach_01 LOL


----------



## trog100 (May 19, 2021)

phill said:


> Seen it had all gone a little pear shaped this morning...  Kind of a shame but meh  Still way over what it was, so grateful for that
> 
> Going down further now, Eth about the 2800 marker, bitcoin a little under 39000....  That what if I had sold comes into it again don't you think @trog100 ??



eth seems to be falling off the most phil.. its a good job i still see it all as monopoly money else losing 20K or so might be painful.. he he

my mining rewards have shot up again though.. 

trog


----------



## moproblems99 (May 19, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> I don't think this is a classic "bitcoin bubble crash", because we didn't really have a bubble as such, the circumstances for that do not align at the moment (at least according to past occurrences). BTC price was actually tracking predicted models pretty well, there was nothing out of the ordinary. So there is something else happening, I don't think it's all just panic selling either.
> 
> I am suspicious and skeptic by nature, I think the global ATH for this year is yet to come, there could something intentional about what's happening right now.


Anything with crypto is always intentional.  The key is figuring out who, why, and what you need to do.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 19, 2021)

trog100 said:


> eth seems to be falling off the most phil.. its a good job i still see it all as monopoly money else losing 20K or so might be painful.. he he
> 
> trog



I told you, if you could improve your quality of life by cashing out two weeks ago, then do so. 

This crash seems fairly simple to me, China announced major crackdowns on crypto world, more seizing of crypto in China, and since that is where most of the whales are mining crypto... they decided to cash out and flee. Don't blame them. Now the markets are going to crash. I expect 30k BTC and 1800 ETH by midnight tonight.  LOL

the little guy in america's and elsewhere got scammed again   sad


----------



## sepheronx (May 19, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I told you, if you could improve your quality of life by cashing out two weeks ago, then do so.
> 
> This crash seems fairly simple to me, China announced major crackdowns on crypto world, more seizing of crypto in China, and since that is where most of the whales are mining crypto... they decided to cash out and flee. Don't blame them. Now the markets are going to crash. I expect 30k BTC and 1800 ETH by midnight tonight.  LOL
> 
> the little guy in america's and elsewhere got scammed again   sad


Apparently that's incorrect.

At least what some are saying. A lot of fud being passed around so let's wait a few days more.  I heard it is so China can force their own gov approved exchange and what not.  Will be I retesting times.


----------



## phill (May 19, 2021)

trog100 said:


> eth seems to be falling off the most phil.. its a good job i still see it all as monopoly money else losing 20K or so might be painful.. he he
> 
> my mining rewards have shot up again though..
> 
> trog


It sure has mate!!    Eth according to the Coindesk page I use, says it's dropped 21% just in 24 hours, lowest it hit was 2430 ish....  Like I said, still way more than than the $100 or so a coin it was back in December !!


----------



## trog100 (May 19, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I told you, if you could improve your quality of life by cashing out two weeks ago, then do so.
> 
> This crash seems fairly simple to me, China announced major crackdowns on crypto world, more seizing of crypto in China, and since that is where most of the whales are mining crypto... they decided to cash out and flee. Don't blame them. Now the markets are going to crash. I expect 30k BTC and 1800 ETH by midnight tonight.  LOL
> 
> the little guy in america's and elsewhere got scammed again   sad



life is fairly simple to you lynx.. lets hope it remains that way.. 

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (May 19, 2021)

trog100 said:


> life is fairly simple to you lynx.. lets hope it remains that way..
> 
> trog



there is a difference between a 10k crash and bounce back a over a week period, and 63k peak less than two months ago now aiming to 30k a coin very probable... that level of volatility is going to scare the big banks away. they though they could control it but they can't. they going to cash out this time and wipe their hands clean of it.


----------



## sepheronx (May 19, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1394661559033602049


----------



## moproblems99 (May 19, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1394661559033602049


Unfortunately, news doesn't have to be correct to have consequences. There is more big money in crypto than little money.  The only game in crypto is figuring out who is controlling it at the time and what their plan is.


----------



## birdie (May 19, 2021)

What a lovely day, what a lovely day (PS I'm a hodler and I've lost a ton of money recently)!


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 19, 2021)

64K said:


> A panic sell isn't necessarily a bad thing. It could be a serious warning or it could be a good buying opportunity. Warren Buffett once said:
> 
> _"Be fearful when others are greedy. Be greedy when others are fearful.”_
> 
> ...



Pretty sure the market is merely at the Anxiety part.  The news is just now today starting to consider that maybe the cycle peaked.

Eth is in the earlier stated 2000-2600 resistance range which includes the 50 DMA, and people who want to get out may get an opportunity on a bounce here.  But this isn't selling off like a normal market, probably due to lack of shorts / puts on these cryptos which are what help keep stock markets from just all out going to zero in down swings.

Yeah this is an all out crash.  15 mins later and the crypto index has lost another 20%.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 19, 2021)

I think the retail investor panic selling really only started in these past few hours. Like I said, this definitely seems like a well crafted move, sell signals existed for a while but not to these levels.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 19, 2021)

Holy crap is it crashing!! POP goes the cryptocoin world... Almost the entire cryptocoin market is crashing and hard... 

On the upside, we're all going to see tech prices start to return to normal...


----------



## Vya Domus (May 19, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> On the upside, we're all going to see tech prices start to return to normal...


Good luck with that, like I said above, ETH is still far above the profitability threshold.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 19, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> ETH is still far above the profitability threshold.


No it isn't, especially with the following about to hit;








						Ethereum to Transition to Proof of Stake in Coming Months, Reducing Energy Consumption by 99.95%
					

The deployment of PoS (Proof of Stake) in Ethereum - called The Merge - has been a target for the development teams for a while now - and yet it still hasn't see the light of day. However, we have been slowly clambering towards it, and the Ethereum team has issued a blog post that places that...




					www.techpowerup.com
				



Whatever profitability might exist will quickly be gone!


----------



## Vya Domus (May 19, 2021)

POS will take ETH mining out of the equation (well not really but let's go with that) but till then prices alone wont cause miners to give up on buying GPUs. Plus, who the hell knows what could take it's place after.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 19, 2021)

ITS AT 30K!!!! AND STILL CRASHING!!! I BET THE BANKS WOKE UP AT 9AM AND STARTED CASHING OUT JUST AS I PREDICTED!!!  LMAO

so volatile bruh


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 19, 2021)

So this is one of those anecdotal signs of a crash.

My trading programs are all lagged to hell.   Rest of the internet is fine.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 19, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> So this is one of those anecdotal signs of a crash.
> 
> My trading programs are all lagged to hell.   Rest of the internet is fine.



Tesla's Board of Directors are interested in speaking with Elon at the next meeting I think.  LMAO I am pretty sure he bought in around the 30-35k mark... so he just lost all his gains that gave his company a net profit last year.


----------



## Zyll Goliat (May 19, 2021)




----------



## Space Lynx (May 19, 2021)

Elon is to busy sleeping, otherwise he probably would have tweeted some Doge to the moon troll crap LMAO ya snooze ya lose.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 19, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Tesla's Board of Directors are interested in speaking with Elon at the next meeting I think.  LMAO I am pretty sure he bought in around the 30-35k mark... so he just lost all his gains that gave his company a net profit last year.


Yup, he also lost his spot as 2nd richest man in the world.   

This will probably tank Tesla's stock more than it already has.  At one time they were trading at near 1000 X PE.  Now they're down to ~500-600.  The historical average is 15.5


----------



## trog100 (May 19, 2021)

well bitcoin is currently at 34K and eth 2400.. 

and amidst this huge market crash my nicehash mining rewads are are showing a ridiculous $450 dollars per day or over £3000 dollars per week and over £12000 dollars per month.. 

the stock markets are all in the red with gold and silver up.. 

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (May 19, 2021)

trog100 said:


> well bitcoin is currently at 34K and eth 2400..
> 
> and amidst this huge market crash my nicehash mining rewads are are showing a ridiculous $450 dollars per day or over £3000 dollars per week and over £12000 dollars per month..
> 
> ...



that's just a whale buying the dip out of desperation to keep the dream alive. it will be below 30k tonight, once more hedgefunds and banks start wiping their hands clean of it, just as I predicted, they got to have their morning coffee first


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 19, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> POS will take ETH mining out of the equation (well not really but let's go with that) but till then prices alone wont cause miners to give up on buying GPUs. Plus, who the hell knows what could take it's place after.


Are you actually paying attention? Eth is as profitable as shoving cow-pat ATM and it's getting worse by the minute... It's crashing that fast...

EDIT: I take that back ETH has bounced back a bit in the last hour...


----------



## Space Lynx (May 19, 2021)

@trog100 stocks have dipped around 1% to 1.30% in dow, nasdaq, etc.

you comparing it to BTC and ETh dropping 24% in less than 7 hour period. LOL  no offense mate, but come on...


----------



## dcf-joe (May 19, 2021)

What are the chances that apps like crypto.com that got all of these SSNs, drivers licenses, birth dates, addresses, are going to take that info and run to the black market with it?


----------



## Vya Domus (May 19, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Are you actually paying attention? Eth is as profitable as shoving cow-pat ATM and it's getting worse by the minute... It's crashing that fast...
> 
> EDIT: I take that back ETH has bounced back a bit in the last hour...



Even if it goes down to pre-2021 levels it will still be worth mining. People have been mining this whole time since 2017 actually, obviously it wasn't as profitable but still doable.


----------



## trog100 (May 19, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> @trog100 stocks have dipped around 1% to 1.30% in dow, nasdaq, etc.
> 
> you comparing it to BTC and ETh dropping 24% in less than 7 hour period. LOL  no offense mate, but come on...



dont be silly the big crash will come later.. he he

trog


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 19, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Eth is in the earlier stated 2000-2600 resistance range which includes the 50 DMA, and people who want to get out may get an opportunity on a bounce here.



^^^^^

Markets do not move in a straight line.

Also statistically, when there is a 'gap' the market moves to cover at least 50% of the gap around 90% of the time.  Most people do not take advantage of that because they think the good times are back.

This gap covering bounce is likely to happen to all of the gaps down that occurred over the last 24 hours.   That will not change the trend.


----------



## trog100 (May 19, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Even if it goes down to pre-2021 levels it will still be worth mining. People have been mining this whole time since 2017 actually, obviously it wasn't as profitable but still doable.


 
mining to hodle during the slump periods is actually the most long term profitable.. 

trog


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 19, 2021)

dcf-joe said:


> What are the chances that apps like crypto.com that got all of these SSNs, drivers licenses, birth dates, addresses, are going to take that info and run to the black market with it?


Well, if you gave them that info you deserve to be jacked over. Why would ANYONE do that?


----------



## dcf-joe (May 19, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Well, if you gave them that info you deserve to be jacked over. Why would ANYONE do that?



You're right.

I guess I joined the "party" a little too late and because of all of the US gov compliance stuff, the app required all of that stuff before it allowed me to buy some coins.

I guess I'll just have to keep a close eye on stuff and maybe purchase some kind of identity theft protection service. Such is life for me.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 19, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Even if it goes down to pre-2021 levels it will still be worth mining. People have been mining this whole time since 2017 actually, obviously it wasn't as profitable but still doable.


Doable yes, profitable? Dubious, very dubious..


----------



## sepheronx (May 19, 2021)

dcf-joe said:


> What are the chances that apps like crypto.com that got all of these SSNs, drivers licenses, birth dates, addresses, are going to take that info and run to the black market with it?


Very little. They have various agreements signed with institutions such as VISA


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 19, 2021)

dcf-joe said:


> You're right.
> 
> I guess I joined the "party" a little too late and because of all of the US gov compliance stuff, the app required all of that stuff before it allowed me to buy some coins.
> 
> I guess I'll just have to keep a close eye on stuff and maybe purchase some kind of identity theft protection service. Such is life for me.


There is one simple rule to follow about giving out your personal info: *DON'T*. Unless it's a government, an employer or a financial institution(cryptocoin markets do NOT count), you don't give that info to ANYONE, full stop, end of story.


----------



## 64K (May 19, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> So this is one of those anecdotal signs of a crash.
> 
> My trading programs are all lagged to hell.   Rest of the internet is fine.



coindesk and some other crypto news sites keep crashing. Server overload. Investors are fearful and they are looking for answers.


----------



## Zyll Goliat (May 19, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Even if it goes down to pre-2021 levels it will still be worth mining. People have been mining this whole time since 2017 actually, obviously it wasn't as profitable but still doable.


Maybe but only IF you paid for those GPU's pre-2021 when prices was "normal" OR IF you paid for those GPU's in Crypto......


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 19, 2021)

64K said:


> coindesk and some other crypto news sites keep crashing. Server overload. Investors are fearful and they are looking for answers.



I'm actually talking about normal trading programs, Active Trader Pro and my broker's website (which is a very large financial co).   They seem to be ok now, but were very slow from 8:30-8:45 AM CST.

Crypto isn't the only thing getting hit hard today.  And the decline slowed in all of the markets, including crypto, at the same time.  Herd behavior in action.


----------



## 64K (May 19, 2021)

My physical gold is up. That tells the story about what is real money.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 19, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Crypto isn't the only thing getting hit hard today.


I just checked, and yes it is. Other markets are fine. Stock market trading is normal, even if down a little bit. Nothing like the current cryptocoin crash...



64K said:


> My physical gold is up. That tells the story about what is real money.


I was about to mention that commodities are actually up by a good measure.

The rest of the world is fine. Cryptocoin is alone in it's crash.


----------



## dragontamer5788 (May 19, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I just checked, and yes it is. Other markets are fine. Stock market trading is normal, even if down a little bit. Nothing like the current cryptocoin crash...
> 
> 
> I was about to mention that commodities are actually up by a good measure.
> ...



One more important market: 10-year Treasury Yields (highly indicative of the bond market) is up 3 basis points (0.03%) right now.

Aka: normal day. Commodities and Treasury are usually inverted (inflation-fears cause Treasury to drop and commodities to go up). But nothing in the bond market seems out of the ordinary.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 19, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> One more important market: 10-year Treasury Yields (highly indicative of the bond market) is up 3 basis points (0.03%) right now.
> 
> Aka: normal day. Commodities and Treasury are usually inverted (inflation-fears cause Treasury to drop and commodities to go up). But nothing in the bond market seems out of the ordinary.


Yeah, agreed. Seems like a normal day in every other market.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 19, 2021)

64K said:


> My physical gold is up. That tells the story about what is real money.



You're gold is not really "money" though. It's a store of value, BTC is not really thought of as an actual currency either but also as a store of value, with a lot more room for growth hence the interest in it.

Over the last 10 years gold hasn't really grown that much and dipped quite badly in between. I see many faults in crypto but I'm not really impressed with precious metals either.


----------



## phill (May 19, 2021)

Eth might have crashed hard, but the most amusing thing to me is now, because of the massive influx of transactions, the block reward is flying high and it's allowing miners to still have a decent amount of profitability   That's a bit of a win to be honest.  Doesn't matter on what the price of the coin is unless your withdrawing and why would you do it now?  

Only if you sold at 4400 and then bought at back at 1900 the lowest I think it was, would you do that, you'd have just doubled your coin and some and be in a better situation when it goes north again...  It's all a positive in that regard!  
My mate never sold which is what he wanted to do, I would have but it makes no never mind for us simply because its for the long term game    Long term in crypto land is like a few days or a week at best  

Try and not get too hung up with arguments guys, world doesn't evolve around crypto and such, more important things out there    Grab a pint or a cuppa    Well, unless it's before 11am and your at work, so probably best for the cuppa!!


----------



## 64K (May 19, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> You're gold is not really "money" though. It's a store of value, BTC is not really thought of as an actual currency either but also as a store of value, with a lot more room for growth hence the interest in it.
> 
> Over the last 10 years gold hasn't really grown that much and dipped quite badly in between. I see many faults in crypto but I'm not really impressed with precious metals either.



I don't look to my gold as an investment for growth . I don't care if it grows in value. That is what my mutual funds are for. Generally when I get into a discussion with a crypto-bug the subject of fiat and banks going to hell is what they think makes crypto attractive but it's just another fiat. My gold is what I keep a little of in case that happens.

Physical gold and things that can be bartered for food and necessities will be the only real money if things do go to hell just like they always have been for thousands of years.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 19, 2021)

64K said:


> Physical gold and things that can be bartered for food and necessities will be the only real money if things do go to hell just like they always have been for thousands of years.



I really, really doubt that if things get that bad people will give a damn about gold when they're starving. The value of gold goes up with the level of technological advancement of a civilization not the other way around.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 19, 2021)

64K said:


> Physical gold and things that can be bartered for food and necessities will be the only real money if things do go to hell just like they always have been for thousands of years.


This, yes.


----------



## Chomiq (May 19, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Elon is to busy sleeping, otherwise he probably would have tweeted some Doge to the moon troll crap LMAO ya snooze ya lose.


The guy's on adderall most of the time, you think he sleeps at the time like this? He probably cashed out weeks ago before they announced that Tesla won't be accepting BTC anymore.


----------



## Zach_01 (May 19, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> my philosophy crap that no one ever listens to me on. @Zach_01 LOL


Care to elaborate?
Did you hope, or just waited for a crypto dip just to comment about what?

Our disagreement, if you can call it that, was not about if crypto would dip or crash or grow. It was about you wondering in crypto related topics preaching about morals and greed, and sticking tags about how much can make people happy.

So what was the point of the above loud laughter because I don’t see one.


----------



## sepheronx (May 19, 2021)

phill said:


> Eth might have crashed hard, but the most amusing thing to me is now, because of the massive influx of transactions, the block reward is flying high and it's allowing miners to still have a decent amount of profitability   That's a bit of a win to be honest.  Doesn't matter on what the price of the coin is unless your withdrawing and why would you do it now?
> 
> Only if you sold at 4400 and then bought at back at 1900 the lowest I think it was, would you do that, you'd have just doubled your coin and some and be in a better situation when it goes north again...  It's all a positive in that regard!
> My mate never sold which is what he wanted to do, I would have but it makes no never mind for us simply because its for the long term game    Long term in crypto land is like a few days or a week at best
> ...


I would say so


----------



## phill (May 19, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> I would say so
> View attachment 200928


It'll only go up from this point I think   For the moment mine all you can, the block reward/transactions will drop and it'll take a little longer to get to that next payout (depending on what you use) but either way, if your putting more energy into it and getting less return than you want to, then it's time to stop, if not keep on going


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 19, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Yeah, agreed. Seems like a normal day in every other market.



I don't really care to argue with the herd, but this is not a normal day in the markets.  I think that is what you want it to be, nothing to see here, move along right? 

Stock markets are not as volatile as something like Crypto which has no real value,  will never go to zero unless we have armageddon.   But this is not normal. 

But I think it is going to be normal for some time.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 19, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> I think that is what you want it to be, nothing to see here, move along right?


Yup.


RandallFlagg said:


> Stock markets are not as volatile as something like Crypto which has no real value, will never go to zero unless we have armageddon. But this is not normal.


Are you kidding with that? Um, you need to look at trends. This is nothing-sauce.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 19, 2021)

I picked up more this morning. Right now ETH is 61% buyers.


----------



## trog100 (May 19, 2021)

bitcoin is back up over 40K that didnt take long did it.. he he

trog


----------



## phill (May 19, 2021)

Did you grab some Eth too @trog100 when it hit 1900??   lol


----------



## sepheronx (May 19, 2021)

If I had money to buy em, I would have. I should move over to hiveOS and start mining then directly.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 19, 2021)

I thought 20% off was a good deal! Now this morning everything was 40%+ off. And now we are climbing again.

More so ETH. Low of 2k and already pushing 3k.


----------



## trog100 (May 19, 2021)

phill said:


> Did you grab some Eth too @trog100 when it hit 1900??   lol



i am not buying or selling phil.. i did splash some cash out on cards to get my current 730 m/sh so basically i am just mining and watching what happens..

trog


----------



## Mescalamba (May 19, 2021)

I would probably wait till it decides to stop dipping.

It stopped exactly at S1 of weekly, I suspect it wont in longer term (weeks) stop there, but it probably goes to base of weekly, which is around 23k.

Ofc its possible that it was just flash dip, we end at weekly R1 at 36k and happily continue upwards from there.

Or bottom at 16k.  Who knows really, just theories.

Either way, even at bottom of 16k, ETH will be valuable enough to not stop mining (same goes for basically everything else worth mining). So dont hold breath for cheap GPUs. I suspect most wont sell GPUs anyway.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 19, 2021)

No, keep watching. It isn't over yet... The last crash did this exact same thing before plummeting into the depths.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 19, 2021)

Give it time. Like I said, before midnight it will be under 30k.  These things take time, those whales are panicking still, buying up all the quick sellers to artificially inflate it back up. Then they will topple over themselves when they see the buyers are much less this next round LOL

Not sure what Elon's latest tweet means, thanking the master of coins? By supporting BTC in anyway though he damaged climate change, reversing all gains Tesla and Solar Roofs and Powerbanks have accomplished, so he can fool himself all he wants, he is not the climate hero again just because he refused to accept Bitcoin finally. Damage was done. 15 countries of electricity worth was done. He is no longer a hero in my book. Anyone who still listens to his tweets is a fool of fools.


----------



## R0H1T (May 19, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> These things take time, those whales are panicking still, buying up all the quick sellers to artificially inflate it back up


Let's be clear ~ the whales, or wooly mammoths, don't lose money here! They rarely do, the retail i.e. small time investors, part time(s) miners et al will lose a sh!t ton


----------



## Space Lynx (May 19, 2021)

R0H1T said:


> Let's be clear ~ the whales, or wooly mammoths, don't lose money here! They rarely do, the retail i.e. small time investors, part time(s) miners et al will lose a sh!t ton



They will now, many of the small timers they build off the back of through manipulation will now be a bit smarter about investing. When the whales run out of fools, is the day they fall, only 7 billion humans in world, they have to run out of fools to manipulate eventually.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 19, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Give it time. Like I said, before midnight it will be under 30k.


Yeah, it's already starting the next downward swing...


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 19, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> ^^^^^
> 
> Markets do not move in a straight line.
> 
> ...



^^^^^


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 19, 2021)

I won't expect GPU's to come back at the MSRP we once knew despite the dip.


----------



## dragontamer5788 (May 19, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> I won't expect GPU's to come back at the MSRP we once knew despite the dip.



Depends how bad the crash is. Mining-cards will flood Ebay if it crashes low enough. That probably won't make new-cards come down in price, but Ebay listings will be great.

Used is a fun market to participate in: if you know that a hyperscaler (ex: Facebook or Amazon) is selling off some of their stuff, you can buy up ~5-year old servers and/or equipment at cheap prices. Same thing with miners: they don't buy/sell on a schedule though, they buy/sell based off of mining profitability.


----------



## R0H1T (May 19, 2021)

There's still not enough supply from AMD & Nvidia. At least AMD will take ~6 months to get anywhere near what one could expect normally from them.


----------



## dragontamer5788 (May 19, 2021)

R0H1T said:


> There's still not enough supply from AMD & Nvidia. At least AMD will take ~6 months to get anywhere near what one could expect normally from them.



Its not AMD / NVidia that's the bottleneck. Its TSMC, Samsung, GloFo. The foundries are swamped with orders. Remember: even car companies (Ford / GM / etc. etc.) are idling factories and cutting back work because they've run out of chips. Appliances, cars, computers... supply chains are busted at the moment.

AMD/NVidia do not have any production capabilities at all. They just send their designs to TSMC or Samsung, and then get a chip a few months later. If these foundries have backlogs, there's nothing AMD or NVidia can do.

Intel owns their own foundries, so they benefit in these times of tight supply chains.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 19, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> Depends how bad the crash is. Mining-cards will flood Ebay if it crashes low enough. That probably won't make new-cards come down in price, but Ebay listings will be great.
> 
> Used is a fun market to participate in: if you know that a hyperscaler (ex: Facebook or Amazon) is selling off some of their stuff, you can buy up ~5-year old servers and/or equipment at cheap prices. Same thing with miners: they don't buy/sell on a schedule though, they buy/sell based off of mining profitability.


Agreed. Been a buyer / seller on the Bay for 20 years buddy. seen it all come and go but things have changed over there. Not for the buyer but the seller, It's driven a lot of people away. Those bargains we once knew just might not be there like they used to....


----------



## R0H1T (May 19, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> AMD/NVidia do not have any production capabilities at all.


Yes of course & do you see AMD's order book shrinking in the next 6 months, if at all? No to mention AMD will prioritize their CPU & APU production over GPUs, heck even Xilinx over consumer GPUs.

Nvidia is more interesting because they have Sammy for their 8nm consumer GPUs but who knows if they'll lower the prices much, if at all.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 19, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> These things take time, those whales are panicking still



The whales are not panicking.  Unless you mean them from having heart attacks laughing or choking on shit.  That is exactly who started all this.

The panickers are the ones that don't know what to do.


----------



## dragontamer5788 (May 19, 2021)

R0H1T said:


> Yes of course & do you see AMD's order book shrinking in the next 6 months, if at all? No to mention AMD will prioritize their CPU & APU production over GPUs, heck even Xilinx over consumer GPUs.
> 
> Nvidia is more interesting because they have Sammy for their 8nm consumer GPUs but who knows if they'll lower the prices much, if at all.



When we are talking about things the country cares about... ie: what gets put onto the President's Desk tomorrow... its not GPUs from AMD or NVidia.









						Chip Crisis in ‘Danger Zone’ as Wait Times Reach New Record
					

Shortages in the semiconductor industry, which have already slammed automakers and consumer electronics companies, are getting even worse, complicating the global economy’s recovery from the coronavirus pandemic.




					www.bloomberg.com
				




Its things like Ford idling 8-factories due to a lack of chip supply.



> Chip shortages are rippling through industry after industry, preventing companies from shipping products from cars to game consoles and refrigerators. Automakers are now expected to lose out on $110 billion in sales this year, as Ford Motor Co., General Motors Co. and others have to idle factories for lack of essential components. That’s undercutting economic growth and employment, as well as raising fears of panic ordering that may lead to distortions in the future.



And...









						Ford to halt production of F-150, Bronco Sport and other vehicles due to chip shortage
					

Ford will halt production at eight North American plants for varying periods of time through early July due to an ongoing shortage of semiconductor chips.




					www.cnbc.com
				






> DETROIT – Ford Motor will halt or cut production at eight North American plants for varying periods of time through June due to an ongoing shortage of semiconductor chips impacting the auto industry.



GPUs and stuff are cool and all, and as a hardware enthusiast I definitely care about them. But there's bigger fish to talk about right now. Remember: halted production means no jobs. No jobs means layoffs possible.

---------

Why are there so many chip shortages?

* Samsung's chip factory in Texas got obliterated for a few weeks because of the Texas power-outage.

* TSMC exists in Taiwan. After holding off COVID19 for over a year (not needing any form of Lockdown), Taiwan suddenly gets a huge uptick in COVID19 cases, and now that country is beginning to issue rumors of a potential shutdown / lockdown. That's not good for the chip industry at all.

* Ever Given blocks the Suez Canal, which causes major delays on a lot of unrelated shipping randomly. The chips that were made suddenly were stuck on boats around the world and schedules slipped.

* Etc. etc. Lets not be blind to the huge, global-scale problems happening right now. The GPU-picture is actually a very small piece of the problem right now.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 19, 2021)

R0H1T said:


> Nvidia is more interesting because they have Sammy for their 8nm consumer GPUs but who knows if they'll lower the prices much, if at all.


Doubt it. I think the new prices are here to stay putting cards out of reach for many gamers.


----------



## Jetster (May 19, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> Doubt it. I think the new prices are here to stay putting cards out of reach for many gamers.


Which will push people to console gaming, then the market will correct it and priced will return, it just goin to take some time


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 19, 2021)

Jetster said:


> Which will push people to console gaming, then the market will correct it and priced will return, it just goin to take some time


Not sure about the market correction mate. I don't think hardware (GPU's especially) are going to be the same price as they were in 2019.
Of course I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure this will be the case looking forward.


----------



## ShiBDiB (May 19, 2021)

Anyone who had an unbiased opinion saw this price correction coming from a mile away. The people who racked up credit card debt to buy scalp priced cards to make a mining rig are going to be offloading their hardware asap to try and recoup losses.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 19, 2021)

ShiBDiB said:


> Anyone who had an unbiased opinion saw this price correction coming from a mile away. The people who racked up credit card debt to buy scalp priced cards to make a mining rig are going to be offloading their hardware asap to try and recoup losses.



yep, the whales rely on a certain percentage of people who are just dumb and living beyond their means. and since they have no regulation, they get away with the exploitation.

doesn't matter anyway. we will see 1-2 billion people mass migration in next 10-15 years, crop failure and famine on a scale we can't imagine. humans have not been paying attention to the ice caps... melting so fast the oceans are changing pattern faster than anyone ever anticipated. crop failure is coming. money will be useless.


----------



## Mescalamba (May 19, 2021)

Taiwan has other issues too, mostly fact that its without water. No water = no chips.


----------



## erocker (May 19, 2021)

Sell now unless you're really... really long-term. I see a panic sell dip happened today followed up by some buyers trying to get in early on the panic selling. Tomorrow is going to be worse.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 19, 2021)

erocker said:


> Sell now unless you're really... really long-term. I see a panic sell dip happened today followed up by some buyers trying to get in early on the panic selling. Tomorrow is going to be worse.



yep, you have different kinds of hodler's, those that said omg its almost 30k i cant cash out now ill lose to much, those will be selling soon now. lol

human nature doesn't change.


----------



## phill (May 19, 2021)

trog100 said:


> i am not buying or selling phil.. i did splash some cash out on cards to get my current 730 m/sh so basically i am just mining and watching what happens..
> 
> trog


I hear ya Trog    How long do you think it'll be before you break even with what you have bought?


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 19, 2021)

erocker said:


> Tomorrow is going to be worse.


Very likely.


----------



## Devon68 (May 19, 2021)

The fact that tesla said it wont accept bitcoins. Is it possible they knew about the dip. With Elon hyping up dodgecoin I would not be surprised if he has a market predicting algorithm. This is speculation so I might as well put on my tin foil hat . Can wait till morning to see if it goes up or down.


----------



## Jetster (May 19, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> Not sure about the market correction mate. I don't think hardware (GPU's especially) are going to be the same price as they were in 2019.
> Of course I might be wrong but I'm prretty sure this will be the case looking forward.


Sure it will


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 19, 2021)

Jetster said:


> Sure it will


We'll see.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 19, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> yep, you have different kinds of hodler's, those that said omg its almost 30k i cant cash out now ill lose to much, those will be selling soon now. lol
> 
> human nature doesn't change.



They might have a few days or even a week or two to think about it.  I see it bouncing up a bit on a daily scale, the divergence in price action (bottom of the image, the purple trend line at the bottom of the money flow indicator) is something that in laymans terms means 'there are more sellers than buyers at this low, but they did not outnumber sellers as much as they did at the last low'.   In other words, the decline is weakening.

Also worth noting, this plowed through the 200 day moving average and then went right back to it, the 200DMA is at 39840 right now, BTC at 39,332.  My guess is it will fight around that level for a few days.  

It did this exact same thing back in April with the 50 day moving average.  The 50 is the wavy purple line, I circled in red where it blew through it in April.  That took about 2 weeks to work out.  The 200 day moving average is the red line coming across.  BTC rose right back up to it, just like in April.


----------



## trog100 (May 20, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> yep, you have different kinds of hodler's, those that said omg its almost 30k i cant cash out now ill lose to much, those will be selling soon now. lol
> 
> human nature doesn't change.



well lynx i am another kind of hodler.. i wont be selling for ether of your reasons.. end of story..

your true colours are showing by the way.. they dont look that pretty to me..

as for me breaking even phil as i have said before i dont look at it that way.. its a more long term thing with me..

only tomorrow will tell what is going to happen tomorrow.. tis a shame this thread has been taken over by gloating no coiners.. that aint very pretty ether..

trog


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 20, 2021)

trog100 said:


> only tomorrow will tell what is going to happen tomorrow.. tis shame this thread has been taken over by gloating no coiners.. that aint very pretty ether..



Every time crypto drops they come out in droves. "Oh thank goodness I didn't buy that, I told you not to buy that...see how smart I am." But then it goes back up and they all disappear. It will go back up even if Billionaire Cult Followers decide to cash out. No worries, cheaper for me. BTC may not recover right away. But I rode this all the way from $300 to $20k when that was the ATH and it dropped to $3k and then went right back up to $63k. I buy every dip, as I am now, and it will recover. Crypto isn't going away. Daily and Weekly charts don't mean SH|T. My point here is that with the level of volatility in crypto you can't predict much with a weekly, daily, hourly chart.

I probably should have cashed out at $63k and repurchased at $30k, but then I have to pay taxes on it, and who is to say $63K was the top... and blah, blah..just easier to hold.


----------



## LFaWolf (May 20, 2021)

If you just hold and hold, regardless if it is high or low (bust), then what is the point of this "holding"? Is it some sort of fetish? Do you have an end goal?

Or do you think many years down the road, say 20 years, a bitcoin will reach $1M each? Just curious, really.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 20, 2021)

My end goal is I want crypto to be part of my retirement. I diversify so I have many other investments, but if cyrpto can maintain or even increase then it is that many years less I will have to work for a comfortable retirement. I will cash out when I am ready to retire or it has gained so much that I can't afford not to cash out...if that makes sense. Again not all my eggs are in 1 basket but it would sure be nice! My goal is 50 so I might cash out regardless at that point in my life.

Also, crypto is by far the most risky of all my investments, but it also has the potential to be the most rewarding. I don't know if BTC will ever get that high or if it will go completely away. I just know crypto as a whole isn't going anywhere for a long time or until some crazy quantum computer turns the entire banking and crypto world upside down.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 20, 2021)

LFaWolf said:


> If you just hold and hold, regardless if it is high or low (bust), then what is the point of this "holding"?


Holding crypto irrespective of market conditions is more or less a variation of ”If I never sell, I never really lose” mentality. By the same token the profit is never maximised, or even realised. Humans are loss adverse, ”hodling” is a way to cope with the lack of understanding of the market’s movements.

Holding is not a real strategy, it represents the lack of a strategy.


----------



## DeathtoGnomes (May 20, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Holding crypto irrespective of market conditions is more or less a variation of ”If I never sell, I never really lose” mentality. By the same token the profit is never maximised, or even realised. Humans are loss adverse, ”hodling” is a way to cope with the lack of understanding of the market’s movements.
> 
> Holding is not a real strategy, it represents the lack of a strategy.


unless you are a small miner, then you are holding until you have a bigger pot to piss in.


----------



## 64K (May 20, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Holding crypto irrespective of market conditions is more or less a variation of ”If I never sell, I never really lose” mentality. By the same token the profit is never maximised, or even realised. Humans are loss adverse, ”hodling” is a way to cope with the lack of understanding of the market’s movements.
> 
> Holding is not a real strategy, it represents the lack of a strategy.



Words of wisdom.


----------



## LFaWolf (May 20, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> My end goal is I want crypto to be part of my retirement. I diversify so I have many other investments, but if cyrpto can maintain or even increase then it is that many years less I will have to work for a comfortable retirement. I will cash out when I am ready to retire or it has gained so much that I can't afford not to cash out...if that makes sense. Again not all my eggs are in 1 basket but it would sure be nice! My goal is 50 so I might cash out regardless at that point in my life.
> 
> Also, crypto is by far the most risky of all my investments, but it also has the potential to be the most rewarding. I don't know if BTC will ever get that high or if it will go completely away. I just know crypto as a whole isn't going anywhere for a long time or until some crazy quantum computer turns the entire banking and crypto world upside down.


While I respect that you have a plan, I don't think it is a solid and viable plan. What if, when you retire at 50, each BTC is worth $10k? What would you do then? Still sell, or hold some more? Won't it be better to have a price, and say, if it hits that number, I can sell all and retire now? Because it could hit $100k each in the next up cycle in 2025.

It probably won't be $10k, but we don't know either.



Vya Domus said:


> Holding crypto irrespective of market conditions is more or less a variation of ”If I never sell, I never really lose” mentality. By the same token the profit is never maximised, or even realised. Humans are loss adverse, ”hodling” is a way to cope with the lack of understanding of the market.
> 
> Holding is not a real strategy, it represents the lack of a strategy.


I agree with this.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 20, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Holding is not a real strategy, it represents the lack of a strategy.



Holding is a very viable strategy, like an actual finance\banking strategy that even has a term...it's called "Passive Buy & Hold" since you apparently aren't aware of basic finance strategies, so not sure where you pulled that from...Oh your BUTT. Right.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 20, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Holding is a very viable strategy, like an actual finance\banking strategy that even has a term...it's called "Passive Buy & Hold" since you apparently aren't aware of basic finance strategies


While your not wrong here....


ZenZimZaliben said:


> so not sure where you pulled that from...Oh your ass. Right.


...what was THAT?


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 20, 2021)

To far? Ok, let me change it.


----------



## 64K (May 20, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Holding is a very viable strategy, like an actual finance\banking strategy that even has a term...it's called "Passive Buy & Hold" since you apparently aren't aware of basic finance strategies, so not sure where you pulled that from...Oh your ass. Right.



But this is an aberration of investing imo. The rules don't apply here.

Investing in a crypto because fiat currency is worthless long term so invest in crypto which is a fiat currency so it won't be worthless long term because.....?


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 20, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> To far? Ok, let me change it.


It was a bit harsh. Mods would frown on that...


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 20, 2021)

64K said:


> Investing in a crypto because fiat currency is worthless long term so invest in crypto which is a fiat currency so it won't be worthless long term because.....?



FIAT = Fiat money is a government-issued currency that is not backed by a commodity such as gold. Fiat money gives central banks greater control over the economy because they can control how much money is printed. Most modern paper currencies, such as the U.S. dollar, are fiat currencies.

So in what way is Crypto, a decentralized, non-government, non-bank owned, market valued currency Fiat? And lets be honest here no crypto is a currency yet. Currency can not be this volatile and be considered a viable currency. It is a value store right now until it levels off.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 20, 2021)

People don't seem to know how pump n dump works so I'm going to tell you.

Say I've got a billion dollars, and I want to make some more money.  I have one of my lackys go in search of a crypto with a market cap of maybe tens of millions that has some buzz and a bunch of cult like faithful loyalists. 

I go in and see the sell depth, it's not too deep.  So I buy it all up for a few million.  This drives the price up a few percent.  Then I take two sides of the trade and drive it up some more since I knocked out all sellers.  Any new sellers come in, I take them out too. 

Then the news gets out from the cult like loyalists.  This one is going to the moon.   They do my advertising for me.  More buyers enter.   I call my contact at AP / Yahoo or whatever and ask them to mention my crypto in an article or two that is positive about crypto, and I'll make sure brother John gets that job he was applying for at this other company my hedge fund has a stake in.  I also have my lackys posting on Reddit and Twitter as much as possible.  Maybe have that Chinese social media promo company company help out I mean they have like 50 people full time tweeting posting to Reddit and FB and so on.

Trend followers and bandwagon jumpers join in.   I no longer need to buy to make the price go up, they're doing that for me.  I just wait and watch.

When I see enough new buyers, I sell a little at a time, maybe taking out one rung of the buyers but not anything deep.  It keeps going up.  I'm making bank.

Eventually I've sold out, and leave the ponzi market I created to fend for itself.

The ponzi begins to collapse slowly.  In our quarterly the next month, we reveal that we sold out of all our crypto.   

Then it really collapses.

This is pump n dump.


----------



## 64K (May 20, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> FIAT = Fiat money is a government-issued currency that is not backed by a commodity such as gold. Fiat money gives central banks greater control over the economy because they can control how much money is printed. Most modern paper currencies, such as the U.S. dollar, are fiat currencies.
> 
> So in what way is Crypto, a decentralized, non-government, non-bank owned, market valued currency Fiat?



Crypto is backed by less than today's currency. There aren't major governments backing it.

So to decentralize the usual fiat and call it the new fiat. Doesn't change the fact that it is still fiat. You just need to run your PC and GPUs to make the new fiat but it's still fiat. It's smoke and mirrors as usual with fiat.


----------



## R-T-B (May 20, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Well, if you gave them that info you deserve to be jacked over. Why would ANYONE do that?


KYC.  Any legit exchange, like a bank, needs these details to be legal.


----------



## 64K (May 20, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> KYC.  Any legit exchange, like a bank, needs these details to be legal.



But you jumped on the bandwagon a while back and said that banks would no longer be necessary in the future.

Are they legit or not?  Has crypto changed anything at all or is it just another smoke and mirror show?


----------



## R-T-B (May 20, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Are you actually paying attention? Eth is as profitable as shoving cow-pat ATM and it's getting worse by the minute... It's crashing that fast...
> 
> EDIT: I take that back ETH has bounced back a bit in the last hour...


It's weird.  It should be losing payout value but aparently miners are dropping at the same rate, thus profit is remaining ok.

My one card op shows the following:









lexluthermiester said:


> or a financial institution


Actually cryptocoin exchanges are money transmitters in US regulation.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 20, 2021)

Interesting how when arguably braindead strategies armchair crypto experts employ are brought into question we fall back to good old ”actual finance\banking strategies”, which for some bizare reason apply here but otherwise crypto has nothing to do traditional financing, right ?

Would anyone buy and hold a random stock ? Of course not, buying and holding is nonsense outside of ETFs following major indices. And even then you’re looking at modest gains that barely fight off inflation. Of course you can get lucky with your randomly picked stock on some time frame but to call that a “strategy“ is laughable. 

There are no limits to the mental gymnastics crypto enthusiasts perform in order to explain away their utopian end game.


----------



## R-T-B (May 20, 2021)

64K said:


> But you jumped on the bandwagon a while back and said that banks would no longer be necessary in the future.


Far future.  I have no doubt they are needed in the present legislative and economic framework.



Vya Domus said:


> There are no limits to the mental gymnastics crypto enthusiasts perform in order to explain away their utopian end game.


I'm curious the mental gymnastics you'd need to perform to make someone who got in btc 2015, at any point,  held , and cashed out now come out not ahead.


----------



## 64K (May 20, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Interesting how when arguably braindead strategies armchair crypto experts employ are brought into question we fall back to good old ”actual finance\banking strategies”, which for some bizare reason apply here but otherwise crypto has nothing to do traditional financing, right ?
> 
> Would anyone buy and hold a random stock ? Of course not, buying and holding is nonsense outside of ETFs following major indices. And even then you’re looking at modest gains that barely fight off inflation. Of course you can get lucky with your randomly picked stock on some time frame but to call that a “strategy“ is laughable.
> 
> There are no limits to the mental gymnastics crypto enthusiasts perform in order to explain away their utopian end game.



The crypto-bugs are dreamers imo which is harmless but a warning should be noted to do your due diligence and invest your hard earned money wisely.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 20, 2021)

64K said:


> Crypto is backed by less than today's currency. There aren't major governments backing it.
> 
> So to decentralize the usual fiat and call it the new fiat. Doesn't change the fact that it is still fiat. You just need to run your PC and GPUs to make the new fiat but it's still fiat. It's smoke and mirrors as usual with fiat.



I'[m not saying any of this is ethically right it just is -

Modern fiat is nothing like crypto.  The USD is required to purchase anything on most markets.  Need oil?  Need dollars.   Need soybeans?  Need dollars.  Need Corn?  Need dollars.  This is done via arrangement called Bretton-Woods, with a Petrodollar addendum.

There are some edge cases but they are just that.  Muammar Qaddafi tried to make an oil market denominated in Euros and gold, and see what that got him.  Yes after 30 years of nobody giving a crap about him or what he did, he suddenly became enemy #1.   NATO and the US bombed the crap out of them in 2011 and helped fund the rebels.  

All kinds of horrific events go on around the world, but get an oil market up and running in anything other than dollars and NATO and the US will come for you because you're a bad person and spit on a sidewalk 10 years ago.  Unless you're China.  

Notice that the words 'Bitcoin' 'Ethereum' and 'Crypto' are not found here.  

If crypto ever threatens the USD, well, see Muammar Quaddafi.  It will get eradicated.

As an aside, same thing will happen to anyone that poses a significant threat to Saudi Arabia (See Iraq), since their control of OPEC is required for this system to work.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 20, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I'm curious the mental gymnastics you'd need to perform to make someone who got in btc 2015, at any point,  held , and cashed out now come out not ahead.



Ahead of whom ? Even a basic analysis of trends starting from 2015 would have given you plenty of opportunities to come out ahead of someone who just held all that time.

Are we really gonna revere any idiot who bought and held some obscure thing years ago for no obvious reason other than blind trust and herald him as an investment prodigy now ?

Rhetorical question actually, probably yes since ”dogecoin millionaires” were all the rage a few weeks ago. Of course they all knew what was in store for them all the way back to 2013 …


----------



## 64K (May 20, 2021)

The US dollar is fine for a World's Reserve Currency for now. Not perfect by any means but what is the realistic alternative?


----------



## R0H1T (May 20, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> I have one of my lackys go in search of a crypto with a market cap of maybe tens of millions that has some buzz and a bunch of cult like faithful loyalists.


You know they come in all shapes & sizes, someone worth just a few billion (of say DOGE) didn't cause this crash across the board mind you. It was either a horde of millionaires or something much, much bigger 


TheinsanegamerN said:


> I'd bet any enforcement is entirely temporary.
> 
> They'll put teeth on it so long as they attempt to get their coin off the ground, and when it inevitably fails they'll stop enforcing the ban. *Ideally inthis time the chinese government will be buying up crypto coins at a heavily deflated price through shell companies.*


Or maybe a commination of both?


----------



## R-T-B (May 20, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Ahead of whom ? Even a basic analysis of trends starting from 2015 would have given you plenty of opportunities to come out ahead of someone who just held all that time.


I really find that hard to believe.  Have you looked at where bitcoin was in 2015?  The average price was $333.75.  Say you bough and held one bitcoin then.  That $300 would in this "crash" be worth $30,000

So... what easy investments offer 10000% gains in the same time?  Nothing.  At least nothing legal or real.



Vya Domus said:


> Are we really gonna revere any idiot who bought and held some obscure thing years ago for no obvious reason other than blind trust and herald him as an investment prodigy now ?


The difference between stupidity and brilliance is often the outcome, at least in investing.  If you can see it before the masses, you will always do well.



64K said:


> but a warning should be noted to do your due diligence and invest your hard earned money wisely.


I've yet to find any exchange without this.  Even MtGox had such a warning, lol.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 20, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Would be interesting to see how many whales consolidated more BTC in last 36 hours, I have a feeling they inflated their wallets a lot and a lot of little guys got out. I think the whales are banking on the little guys coming back in in mass, and I just don't see that happening, it will take time but I think it will hit below 30k still, by end of month possibly. There is only so much capital to go around after all. The masses will be more wary after today.



I think in the end, governments may use the technology to track everything you buy and every transaction you make.  It will be the exact opposite of what its creators intended.   China is already doing this.  i.e. Blockchain has a future.

But the crypto we have today?   I think it will end one of two ways.  Either it will decline into irrelevance, and shortly thereafter into nothingness.  Or, it will be ended by Gov'ts around the world.  

That 2nd thing is already starting to happen, and these declines and the effect on markets and businesses may be a catalyst.  People were calling it an asset, and talking about using it for 'liquidity' in place of cash or money markets a couple weeks ago.  

About a trillion dollars of 'assets' just went poof.  Some hedge fund or financial firm or corporation that sunk a bunch of real money into it goes down and thousands of people who thought they had nothing to do with Crypto get hurt, that's gonna get real.


----------



## Outback Bronze (May 20, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> About a trillion dollars of 'assets' just went poof



Ride the wave.

I'm sure everybody is well aware of the consequences by now.

Also: Bitcoin Obituaries - "Bitcoin is Dead" Declared 400+ Times (99bitcoins.com)


----------



## las (May 20, 2021)

"Now is a good time to jump in"


----------



## Vya Domus (May 20, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I really find that hard to believe.  Have you looked at where bitcoin was in 2015?  The average price was $333.75.  Say you bough and held one bitcoin then.  That $300 would in this "crash" be worth $30,000
> 
> So... what easy investments offer 10000% gains in the same time?  Nothing.  At least nothing legal or real.



That's not the point, you could have predicted some major dips until today, sold and bought back in, which would have netted you even more.



R-T-B said:


> The difference between stupidity and brilliance is often the outcome, at least in investing.  If you can see it before the masses, you will always do well.



I'll never equate pure luck and ignorance with brilliance, irrespective of the outcome. It's somewhat sad that you do.


----------



## las (May 20, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I really find that hard to believe.  Have you looked at where bitcoin was in 2015?  The average price was $333.75.  Say you bough and held one bitcoin then.  That $300 would in this "crash" be worth $30,000
> 
> So... what easy investments offer 10000% gains in the same time?  Nothing.  At least nothing legal or real.
> 
> ...



And when would you have sold? Or would you have kept them? Looking at it like that, is always easy.

I bought AMD stocks in 2016, when I read that Jim Keller was involved with their "next gen architecture", sold all in Q4 of 2020 on the peak pretty much. Around 3000% gain.

Never touched crypto and probably never will, way too unsecure, i know tons of people who lost thousands on this, it's a huge gamble.
1 word from Elon musk and a coin can/will crash or spike. For him, making money on this, would be extremely easy


----------



## phill (May 20, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> It's weird.  It should be losing payout value but aparently miners are dropping at the same rate, thus profit is remaining ok.
> 
> My one card op shows the following:
> 
> ...



@R-T-B - random question for you, is that the Ethermine app or a web link sir?  Looks pretty decent 

Try and keep it civil guys, calling people names and all that jazz never help solve a thing...  After all, it seems to be the most controversial topic on the forum...  Do play nice please   Don't wanna give out thread bans or any of that rubbish, after all we all are a little older than 12....


----------



## DeathtoGnomes (May 20, 2021)

phill said:


> after all we all are a little older than 12....


13 ....


----------



## nguyen (May 20, 2021)

LOL I started mining on my spare 2080 Ti a week ago (nicehash) and yesterday was the most fun I have had in a while, seeing the crypto world plunging into chaos and the mining profit shot way up.
Sadly everything come back to normal today, would have been more fun had crypto continue the downward trend...


----------



## trog100 (May 20, 2021)

back in 2017 i fancied building a mining machine.. i ended up with an 8 x 1070 machine plus a couple of 1070 cards in sli mode in my gaming machine.. so i had 10 x 1070 cards mining..

it was fun building the machine.. i then sat back and watched my stash slowly get bigger.. very slowly.. this was when bitcoin was at 4K.. as bitcoin went up to 20K i noticed my stash was getting bigger quicker.. he he

it then all crashed and i pretty much forgot about the entire crypto thing.. unlike most i didnt sell anything just let it sit.. lazyness as much as anything else.. i had other things to do..

i will accept that buying and selling at the correct times would have made more gains.. but lazyness kicks in again and and i truly cant be arsed.. 

it was also a mistake turning my miner off i should have left it running and stood the electricity costs.. now if i had have done this and sold at 20K bought back in at 3K and sold again at 64K and maybe bought back in at 30K.. my monopoly money gains would be quite high.. maybe a quarter of a million maybe a bit less..

what i have done in reality is turned the miner back on and chucked some cash at upgrading the hardware.. i now have 8 x 3070.. 2 x 3080 and my old 2080ti cards mining..

i sold my 1070 cards for about £3000 just to get some cash outlay back..

i am already retired have enough income to meet my needs and will ride it all through.. it gives me something to look at along with my normal daily interests.. 

it might make my grand kids rich but it wont alter my own life style in the slightest..

trog


----------



## R-T-B (May 20, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> That's not the point, you could have predicted some major dips until today, sold and bought back in, which would have netted you even more.


I'm not sure how much more you'd even have made in a penny stock that exploded honestly.  Gains like that are just crazy rare.



phill said:


> @R-T-B - random question for you, is that the Ethermine app or a web link sir? Looks pretty decent


Phone App to monitor ethermine.  I believe it is simply "ethermine monitor."  They have a free and one time payment ad-free version on android.  I think it was like $3.00.

My mining setup is one 2080 Super that goes "brrr" all the time and a 3070 on my Crypto Mining Screensaver that I also game with.


----------



## phill (May 20, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Phone App to monitor ethermine.  I believe it is simply "ethermine monitor."  They have a free and one time payment ad-free version on android.  I think it was like $3.00


I'll take a look, looks a little neater than so many tabs open in my browser on my phone lol   Thanks


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 20, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> So in what way is Crypto, a decentralized, non-government, non-bank owned, market valued currency Fiat? And lets be honest here no crypto is a currency yet. Currency can not be this volatile and be considered a viable currency. It is a value store right now until it levels off.


This is correct. Cryptocoin by technical definition is not a currency.


----------



## R-T-B (May 20, 2021)

phill said:


> I'll take a look, looks a little neater than so many tabs open in my browser on my phone lol   Thanks


no prob.  Just had a look and that was the correct name.  It should not ask for anything but wallet address, mind.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 20, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Any legit exchange, like a bank, needs these details to be legal.


This is true and I included financial institutions in those entities that it is correct to disclose that info to. Crypto is not a legitimate currency nor any other legitimate financial investment endeavour. Cryptocoin is not regulated in any way and therefore no company involved in such has ANY rights to citizen personal data. They can ask, we can refuse and they can not refuse to to do business because of that refusal.



R-T-B said:


> Actually cryptocoin exchanges are money transmitters in US regulation.


Cryptocoin is not a regulated currency, US FTC regulations only apply very loosely. We as citizens are not required to disclose personal data to a non-FDIC insured entity nor a non-SEC regulated entity.


----------



## R-T-B (May 20, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Cryptocoin is not a regulated currency


But the USD is.

"Exchange"

If they can post to your bank account, these details are needed.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 20, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I've yet to find any exchange without this.  Even MtGox had such a warning, lol.



Wow, I forgot that name.


----------



## R-T-B (May 20, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> Wow, I forgot that name.


They still send me expressmail notices from time to time in Japanese that I could attend the hearings or something.  It's amazing.  I had like 10 cents there.  A single letter they sent me is probably more expensive than my net worth.


----------



## trog100 (May 20, 2021)

what a difference a day makes.. bitcoin now at 45K and eth near 3200..

trog


----------



## Outback Bronze (May 20, 2021)

trog100 said:


> what a difference a day makes



Yep crazy market. Up 50% in 24hrs with swings of 12k down and 14k up over 27hrs. Mental.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 20, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> They still send me expressmail notices from time to time in Japanese that I could attend the hearings or something.  It's amazing.  I had like 10 cents there.  A single letter they sent me is probably more expensive than my net worth.


Tell them you'll attend as long as they pay for the flight.


----------



## KainXS (May 20, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> Yep crazy market. Up 50% in 24hrs with swings of 12k down and 14k up over 27hrs. Mental.


Yup Crazy Swings


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 20, 2021)

Crazy swings in crypto? Say it aint so.

Some humor.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 20, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> But the USD is.
> 
> "Exchange"
> 
> If they can post to your bank account, these details are needed.


Why doesn't anyone understand that your dollars are taxed, not your crypto?  It isn't difficult.  Especially for all our experts here.



lynx29 said:


> Give it time. Like I said, before midnight it will be under 30k. These things take time, those whales are panicking still, buying up all the quick sellers to artificially inflate it back up. Then they will topple over themselves when they see the buyers are much less this next round LOL


How did your prophecy turn out Nostradamus?



lynx29 said:


> Make sure you are buying several variety worth of vegetable seeds, and keeping them in freezer for a rainy day. Currencies and commodities are cool and all, but the supply chain is very very fragile and not prepared to adapt to climate change fast enough. We need planes, that can move farmers from one location to another overnight with all their equipment to boot. It's going to become a very interesting world... of timing the right fertile lands right...


Trust me, we ain't growing vegetables in the glow of rainbows if the supply chain fails.


----------



## phill (May 21, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> no prob.  Just had a look and that was the correct name.  It should not ask for anything but wallet address, mind.


Damn didn't it need my credit card details??? (/sarcasm lol)  

All is good with it mate, thank you    Gives a bit more detail than last time I believe....


----------



## trog100 (May 21, 2021)

well bitcoin is taking another dive.. its now at 36K.. with eth at 2400.. 

trog


----------



## sepheronx (May 21, 2021)

trog100 said:


> well bitcoin is taking another dive.. its now at 36K..
> 
> trog


Yes it has, and once again my profits are up.

If it gets any lower, then I am forced to buy crypto lol


----------



## Zach_01 (May 21, 2021)

On the daily chart is oversold but on the weekly still has room to fall...


----------



## Mescalamba (May 21, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Yes it has, and once again my profits are up.
> 
> If it gets any lower, then I am forced to buy crypto lol



Someone is shorting, eh?


----------



## trog100 (May 21, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Yes it has, and once again my profits are up.
> 
> If it gets any lower, then I am forced to buy crypto lol



yep mining profits going up but i keep getting the feeling i am mining into a bucket with a hole in the bottom.. he he..

i will keep plodding on though 

trog


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 21, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> On the daily chart is oversold but on the weekly still has room to fall...



There really needs to be a divergence on oversold readings to signal a low, that would mean price hits the low again and RSI/MFI is higher and price +RSI+MFI bounce up.  This would signal a low on the time range selected.

I don't see a divergence on daily RSI but there is one on Money Flow Index.  RSI only looks at price while MFI looks at price + volume.  

This is an example of oversold + divergence on RSI and MFI on 5 minute scale.  I would expect daily to look similar with at least 2 points diverging.  

So with this you can see a bottom form, but you can't know how big the bounce will be without examining other trend levels.  

That purple line at the top is the bottom of BTCs old daily trend channel :






So this IMO is getting close to a daily divergence but needs a new low for that divergence or at minimum a 're-test' of the recent low.  You can see the momentum bleeding off and then turning negative as shown by RSI/MFI on daily below.  

 Same thing needs to happen on weekly to signal a reversal of the bigger trend.   

So that could be the first weekly bottom, followed by a big rally, followed by a new low on less negative momentum, followed by a solid low.  

The fact that this broke out of a downward slope trend channel - and broke the lower trend bar not the higher - is very bearish.  BTC is struggling to get back into that old trend channel now.


----------



## Zach_01 (May 21, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> There really needs to be a divergence on oversold readings to signal a low, that would mean price hits the low again and RSI/MFI is higher and price +RSI+MFI bounce up.  This would signal a low on the time range selected.
> 
> I don't see a divergence on daily RSI but there is one on Money Flow Index.  RSI only looks at price while MFI looks at price + volume.
> 
> ...


My point was that, give or take. BTC has been taken over by bears (for the moment). Unless something drastically changes it will keep getting lower lows every bounce up cycle.

Thanks very much for the detailed analysis!!


----------



## sepheronx (May 21, 2021)

Mescalamba said:


> Someone is shorting, eh?


Yeah, but I was mostly doing with altcoins.  I got the Crypto.com visa debit and plan to get the more advance cards so I earn more CRO.

Plus ADA is down and I want to jump more into it. Which sucks cause I'm waiting for them to find what happened to $50 of mine that was transfered but never recieved.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 21, 2021)

While in general I can’t stand very much the crypto crowd (even though technically I’m part of it) I also can’t help but notice that there has been some heavy misinformation being spread around in the last few days. Seems like every morning there‘s a new “China crypto ban” or ”crackdown“, another word of choice news outlets love to use, which turns out to be not quite that. Markets move accordingly, of course.


----------



## Chomiq (May 21, 2021)

Is it really about China? 








						Crypto payments above $10,000 would be reported to IRS under Treasury plan
					

Fear of crypto being used for tax evasion drives Biden admin's reporting plan.




					arstechnica.com
				



This is on top of the stuff with Binance.


----------



## moproblems99 (May 21, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> While in general I can’t stand very much the crypto crowd (even though technically I’m part of it)



So, not to bring cars in, but I feel the crypto world is similar.  Being a former mechanic, I can't stand going to certain performance stores because the people spout total bullshit.

However, what I found, is that when you know them personally, they stop spouting bullshit because you know each other.

I can tell you with total honesty I never show my hand with people I don't know.


----------



## dragontamer5788 (May 21, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> This is on top of the stuff with Binance.



A lot of Binance things seem to be occurring. Anything in particular you're talking about? The unreliable webpage, I think I see some Tether getting tied in, and Caymen Islands, etc. etc. You'll have to be more specific: a lot of these ills are common to a lot of Cryptocoin stuff in general, lol. So I'm curious what specifically seems to be changing in this past week or so...


----------



## moproblems99 (May 21, 2021)

That said, I do my best to spout information that is fairly close to what I believe without lying.  Unless I have an agenda.


----------



## trog100 (May 21, 2021)

FUD.. fear uncertainty and doubt.. very little is publicly said without some kind of agenda behind it..

trog


----------



## moproblems99 (May 21, 2021)

I still don't think this is your average whale dick waving.  There is a bigger thing going on.

It isn't the whales just pulling out either because this wasn't going to just stop until it was made to stop.


----------



## ShiBDiB (May 21, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> A lot of Binance things seem to be occurring. Anything in particular you're talking about? The unreliable webpage, I think I see some Tether getting tied in, and Caymen Islands, etc. etc. You'll have to be more specific: a lot of these ills are common to a lot of Cryptocoin stuff in general, lol. So I'm curious what specifically seems to be changing in this past week or so...



I'd guess the DOJ digging into them. They'll probably get put on the shitlist soon by them if I had to guess.


----------



## Devon68 (May 21, 2021)

Just read that in China if you know someone who is mining you can narc on them to the authorities. Wonder how that will pan out. I know many people are not fond of miners but he is still your neighbor. Unless he is the type that borrows stuff and forgets to return it. Then he deserve it.


----------



## SirPerfluous (May 21, 2021)

Devon68 said:


> Just read that in China if you know someone who is mining you can narc on them to the authorities. Wonder how that will pan out. I know many people are not fond of miners but he is still your neighbor. Unless he is the type that borrows stuff and forgets to return it. Then he deserve it.


It will likely work out well for the CCP. 
Unfortunately the Chinese people have been subject to endless propaganda, mostly nationalist.
All they have to do is claim Bitcoin is being used by the US to destroy chinese "culture" 
They will have an army of overzealous nationalist vigilantes, ready to bust everyone that "supports their enemies"
Decades of lies has really changed their society and culture. 

"the bigger the lie.." or something like that


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 21, 2021)

I think some big money is buying BTC, but small money is selling.

Reason I say that is this.  The top graph is RSI which only looks at price, specifically movement of price up or down per transaction.  It does not care how big the transaction is.  The horizontal bar is 50 which is to say, up/down are even.  The orange horizontal is 50/50 on these.

The bottom one MFI includes volume.  You can see how big upside volume is on MFI,it's sustained above 50 and a lot over 80 which is huge meaning big up volume.  

But the top one shows numerically more trades are down, even as big volume trades are pushing it up. 

These two things are in opposition to each other.

The moment big money buys drop out the market tanks and gaps down.  I think someone(s) are trying to calm the little guy into not selling, and maybe buying.

Pump n dump..

View attachment 201213


----------



## ShiBDiB (May 21, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> I think some big money is buying BTC, but small money is selling.
> 
> Reason I say that is this.  The top graph is RSI which only looks at price, specifically movement of price up or down per transaction.  It does not care how big the transaction is.  The horizontal bar is 50 which is to say, up/down are even.  The orange horizontal is 50/50 on these.
> 
> ...


They're both still not close to thresholds that "say" anything. I think you're over analyzing here. 

This is also assuming TA means anything at all with crypto (it more often than not doesn't)


----------



## MentalAcetylide (May 22, 2021)

Devon68 said:


> Just read that in China if you know someone who is mining you can narc on them to the authorities. Wonder how that will pan out. I know many people are not fond of miners but he is still your neighbor. Unless he is the type that borrows stuff and forgets to return it. Then he deserve it.


Or if they're "borrowing" your electricity for free without you knowing to run their mining farm.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 22, 2021)

ShiBDiB said:


> They're both still not close to thresholds that "say" anything. I think you're over analyzing here.
> 
> This is also assuming TA means anything at all with crypto (it more often than not doesn't)



Actually I believe just the opposite about TA.  See, TA is all about watching the flow of buyers and sellers in and out of the market.  That's what it is really charting.  Those flows are largely driven by herd behavior and emotion, which is chartable in large groups.

On a regular stock market though, there are other factors.  Derivatives / options tend to set a floor on downwards moves and cap upwards moves, keeps prices stable.  You also have things like dividends, show me Apple at $20 and I'll buy it for the dividend, screw growth.  

Bitcoin has none of that, it's just herds of people being emotional.


----------



## MentalAcetylide (May 22, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> I think some big money is buying BTC, but small money is selling.
> 
> Reason I say that is this.  The top graph is RSI which only looks at price, specifically movement of price up or down per transaction.  It does not care how big the transaction is.  The horizontal bar is 50 which is to say, up/down are even.  The orange horizontal is 50/50 on these.
> 
> ...


Yup, the big guys pump & dump while the little guys get humped & dumped. I think its still safer to go hunting with Dick Cheney.


----------



## ShiBDiB (May 22, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Actually I believe just the opposite about TA.  See, TA is all about watching the flow of buyers and sellers in and out of the market.  That's what it is really charting.  Those flows are largely driven by herd behavior and emotion, which is chartable in large groups.
> 
> On a regular stock market though, there are other factors.  Derivatives / options tend to set a floor on downwards moves and cap upwards moves, keeps prices stable.  You also have things like dividends, show me Apple at $20 and I'll buy it for the dividend, screw growth.
> 
> Bitcoin has none of that, it's just herds of people being emotional.


That's what certain TA indicators are and a very narrow view of TA as a whole but.. okie dokie


----------



## trog100 (May 22, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> I still don't think this is your average whale dick waving.  There is a bigger thing going on.
> 
> It isn't the whales just pulling out either because this wasn't going to just stop until it was made to stop.




yes something is going on.. i aint entirely sure what but something is.. 

trog


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 22, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> (even though technically I’m part of it)


A little self loathing once in a while doesn't hurt. I've been practising it for decades


----------



## moproblems99 (May 22, 2021)

MentalAcetylide said:


> I think its still safer to go hunting with Dick Cheney.


+2 Eth to you sir.


----------



## MentalAcetylide (May 22, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> +2 Eth to you sir.


Thanks! I'll use it as a down payment for extracting all of the birdshot from my rosy cheeks.


----------



## Chomiq (May 22, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> A lot of Binance things seem to be occurring. Anything in particular you're talking about? The unreliable webpage, I think I see some Tether getting tied in, and Caymen Islands, etc. etc. You'll have to be more specific: a lot of these ills are common to a lot of Cryptocoin stuff in general, lol. So I'm curious what specifically seems to be changing in this past week or so...


The DoJ/IRS investigation?


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 22, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Actually I believe just the opposite about TA.  See, TA is all about watching the flow of buyers and sellers in and out of the market.  That's what it is really charting.  Those flows are largely driven by herd behavior and emotion, which is chartable in large groups.
> 
> On a regular stock market though, there are other factors.  Derivatives / options tend to set a floor on downwards moves and cap upwards moves, keeps prices stable.  You also have things like dividends, show me Apple at $20 and I'll buy it for the dividend, screw growth.
> 
> Bitcoin has none of that, it's just herds of people being emotional.


This very neatly sums up cryptocoin. Which is why it needs world-wide strict regulation.


----------



## trog100 (May 22, 2021)

it would seem to me that bitcoin has to find a real bottom.. once it finds this it can start to go up again.. 

some of the fear needs taking out of the market once this happens all these ups and down will go away.. 

just for the record i am one of those people that think bitcoin is the future and it has much higher to go.. 

trog


----------



## R0H1T (May 22, 2021)

SirPerfluous said:


> It will likely work out well for the CCP.


Yeah except if you know people in all the right places you're probably good to go, that's what actually happens in 99.99% of the world.


----------



## LFaWolf (May 22, 2021)

trog100 said:


> it would seem to me that bitcoin has to find a real bottom.. once it finds this it can start to go up again..
> 
> some of the fear needs taking out of the market once this happens all these ups and down will go away..
> 
> ...


This is the main problem with all the coins - how do you when is the "real" bottom? For security such as Amazon, I can say I will invest in it based on so many hard data that I can research - P/E ratio, its R&D, return on capital, revenue growth year over year. If the sales is down 30% this quarter compared to last, I can research - is it losing market share to Walmart? Why is it down? And then I can make a determination if I want to sell my shares or continue to hold.

With any of the coins, none is backed by anything. It is just pure speculation. "They will continue to go up." Or, "they will hit the bottom soon." How? How does one know? If you didn't sell at $60k, will you sell at $80k? $100k? $1M? $1645.32?

I don't hate miners, I just don't think coins investment can be considered as investment. More like gambling on the roulette table.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 22, 2021)

LFaWolf said:


> More like gambling on the roulette table.


How do you think the global economy works? Ever heard the term 'Casino style banking'?

The wealthy never lose at the table because the Fed will always print more if they do. It's a broken system and needs fixing.
FIAT just doesn't cut it in the 21st century. It's backed by nothing but credit with a promise to pay it back on top. 

Many are locked out of this system, why not let some kid with one or two GPU's earn some extra cash? 
I could go on but I guess you can understand what I'm saying.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 22, 2021)

LFaWolf said:


> This is the main problem with all the coins - how do you when is the "real" bottom? For security such as Amazon, I can say I will invest in it based on so many hard data that I can research - P/E ratio, its R&D, return on capital, revenue growth year over year. If the sales is down 30% this quarter compared to last, I can research - is it losing market share to Walmart? Why is it down? And then I can make a determination if I want to sell my shares or continue to hold.
> 
> With any of the coins, none is backed by anything. It is just pure speculation. "They will continue to go up." Or, "they will hit the bottom soon." How? How does one know? If you didn't sell at $60k, will you sell at $80k? $100k? $1M? $1645.32?
> 
> I don't hate miners, I just don't think coins investment can be considered as investment. More like gambling on the roulette table.



I think you're mixing up a few things here. People speculate on Amazon stock as much as they do on BTC, that's technically the mechanism by which the act of investing works. You trade something based on the expectation that it's value will go up/down, for whatever reason, it could be a wild guess or technical analysis, it's still speculation.

These coins are supposed to become the backbone of how transactions are performed in the future, people judge whether or not a coin will be successful on it's potential to become a useful part in that future infrastructure. Or at least that's how it's supposed to work, however most of the time that clearly isn't the case and that's how you get stuff like Dogecoin being the sixth largest coin by market cap. And yes, in those cases it's more or less gambling, you buy some doge hoping that Elon tweets some dumb shit about it.

Crypto wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the monumental horseshit that slips through the cracks from time to time, that's also why so many make fun of it and can't take it seriously, it's more or less well deserved.


----------



## LFaWolf (May 22, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> I think you're mixing up a few things here. People speculate on Amazon stock as much as they do on BTC, that's technically the mechanism by which the act of investing works. You trade something based on the expectation that it's value will go up/down, for whatever reason, it could be a wild guess or technical analysis, it's still speculation.
> 
> These coins are supposed to become the backbone of how transactions are performed in the future, people judge whether or not a coin will be successful on it's potential to become a useful part in that future infrastructure. Or at least that's how it's supposed to work, however most of the time that clearly isn't the case and that's how you get stuff like Dogecoin being the sixth largest coin by market cap. And yes, in those cases it's more or less gambling, you buy some doge hoping that Elon tweets some dumb shit about it.
> 
> Crypto wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the monumental horseshit that slips through the cracks from time to time, that's also why so many make fun of it and can't take it seriously, it's more or less well deserved.


You misunderstood my point. Although the current stock price is based on future earning expectation, at least I have some hard data, historical and current, and from competitors, that I can study and make a determination. Current crypto price is nothing but a speculation of up or down, by reading data from maybe market sentiment, and very prone to manipulation. It is no longer a vehicle as digital currency as it was intended when created.



Hemmingstamp said:


> How do you think the global economy works? Ever heard the term 'Casino style banking'?
> 
> The wealthy never lose at the table because the Fed will always print more if they do. It's a broken system and needs fixing.
> FIAT just doesn't cut it in the 21st century. It's backed by nothing but credit with a promise to pay it back on top.
> ...


I have no problem with that, or with people mining the coins. But don't you think, there are also the really rich people, either hedge fund or investors, that are also manipulating the market somewhat to their gains, and hurting smaller "investors" that have a case of FOMO? It is just when people put real money into betting that it will continue to go up, and risk losing significant money, that is when I feel bad for people for falling for it.

Saw this last night. Pretty neat setup actually. I don't have a problem buying a used card from him in 3 months for half the price 

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/EtherMining/comments/nfppnv


----------



## ShiBDiB (May 22, 2021)

LFaWolf said:


> You misunderstood my point. Although the current stock price is based on future earning expectation, at least I have some hard data, historical and current, and from competitors, that I can study and make a determination. Current crypto price is nothing but a speculation of up or down, by reading data from maybe market sentiment, and very prone to manipulation. It is no longer a vehicle as digital currency as it was intended when created.
> 
> 
> I have no problem with that, or with people mining the coins. But don't you think, there are also the really rich people, either hedge fund or investors, that are also manipulating the market somewhat to their gains, and hurting smaller "investors" that have a case of FOMO? It is just when people put real money into betting that it will continue to go up, and risk losing significant money, that is when I feel bad for people for falling for it.
> ...



Ah so this is why 98% of people can't get their hands on a GPU...

It's cool, but part of me hopes coins completely shit the bed because of people like this.


----------



## trog100 (May 22, 2021)

i just watched a bitcoin guy say what he thinks money is.. he say that in 10 years time bitcoin will be worth 12 million dollars which in todays purchasing power will actually be 1 million dollars due to all the money printing thats going on..

what is "money"..??..  money is something you sell (exchange) your time for.. you then buy or sell other peoples time.. 

he also said that central banks who create money for nothing are actually stealing peoples time.. a kind of slavery in essence.. he thinks bitcoin is a way out of this basically corrupt system..

i kind of liked what he said.. 

trog


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## 80-watt Hamster (May 22, 2021)

trog100 said:


> i just watched a bitcoin guy say what he thinks money is.. he say that in 10 years time bitcoin will be worth 12 million dollars which in todays purchasing power will actually be 1 million dollars due to all the money printing thats going on..
> 
> what is "money"..??..  money is something you sell (exchange) your time for.. you then buy or sell other peoples time..
> 
> ...



Probably the only concrete thing of the little I understand about money, or any symbolic means of exchange, is that every single one is empty at the bottom.  The only reason any of it has value is because of trust and social agreement.  After that, it's all about administration.  Doesn't matter if it's fiat currency, gold, or crypto:  Unless a thing can be used in direct support of biological function, it is essentially valueless at its core.  All these means of exchange are convenient substitutions, and aren't inherently different in this regard.  The supply of fiat is controlled by the issuing authority, the supply of crypto is controlled by the algorithm, which is still controlled by someone.  All systems are governed by rules, and where there are rules, there are ways to exploit those rules.  Corruption doesn't go away because you designed a better system.  (Conveniently setting aside the argument of whether crypto is a better system.)


----------



## trog100 (May 22, 2021)

80-watt Hamster said:


> Probably the only concrete thing of the little I understand about money, or any symbolic means of exchange, is that every single one is empty at the bottom.  The only reason any of it has value is because of trust and social agreement.  After that, it's all about administration.  Doesn't matter if it's fiat currency, gold, or crypto:  Unless a thing can be used in direct support of biological function, it is essentially valueless at its core.  All these means of exchange are convenient substitutions, and aren't inherently different in this regard.  The supply of fiat is controlled by the issuing authority, the supply of crypto is controlled by the algorithm, which is still controlled by someone.  All systems are governed by rules, and where there are rules, there are ways to exploit those rules.  Corruption doesn't go away because you designed a better system.  (Conveniently setting aside the argument of whether crypto is a better system.)



it all goes back to the fractional reserve banking system.. this basically allowed banks to lend out money they didnt have.. in a sense the first attempt at creating money out of thin air.. it works until it dosnt.. 

trog


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## Zach_01 (May 22, 2021)

I do believe that the current monetary system is full of holes and insufficiencies in the long term. "They" made it like this the last 50 years to keep producing debt and profit.
Crypto and blockchain on the other hand is far from being a replacement. It is still in its infancy (even as an idea), let alone in practice.

For now "they" using it to just profit by manipulating psychology. Keeping it in the "joke" zone by keeping it volatile.
I do believe it has future, but it is very unrealistic to let it be without even the slightest control. "They" like to control people and their lives, always looking down the herd.


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (May 22, 2021)

trog100 said:


> it all goes back to the fractional reserve banking system.. this basically allowed banks to lend out money they didnt have.. in a sense the first attempt at creating money out of thin air.. it works until it dosnt..
> 
> trog



Fractional reserve is much older than either central banking or fiat currency, and has proved to be pretty stable.  Over-leveraging, however, is a significant risk, and since the financial industry can't help pushing the limits of everything, is really common today.  The Great Recession highlighted this nicely.  And since almost everyone got bailed out, nothing's really changed except the restructuring of derivatives.  Throwing new money at a problem is a lot easier than fixing the system or enacting unpopular regulation.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 22, 2021)

LFaWolf said:


> I have no problem with that, or with people mining the coins. *But don't you think, there are also the really rich people, either hedge fund or investors, that are also manipulating the market somewhat to their gains, and hurting smaller "investors" that have a case of FOMO?* It is just when people put real money into betting that it will continue to go up, and risk losing significant money, that is when I feel bad for people for falling for it.


I already know this is the case. It's all a gamble. Take WSB as an example, the cat is out the bag on the way the system is manipulated for their gain.
If you have everything to lose simply don't play the game. That apples to all betting scenario's, from black jack to rolling dice in an alley.



LFaWolf said:


> Saw this last night. Pretty neat setup actually. I don't have a problem buying a used card from him in 3 months for half the price
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/EtherMining/comments/nfppnv


Not if I put in a good offer first.


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## LFaWolf (May 22, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> I don't think I did. Like I said the entire system is based on speculation. I already know this but though i'd give my 2 cents.


I quoted and my comment was directed at the other post. You did misread it this time.


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## Hemmingstamp (May 22, 2021)

LFaWolf said:


> I quoted and my comment was directed at the other post. You did misread it this time.


Edited: You're correct. I did misread it this time.


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## Nike_486DX (May 22, 2021)

Time to burn some 6900 XT's then


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## Hemmingstamp (May 22, 2021)

Nike_486DX said:


> Time to burn some 6900 XT's then


I went for the retail store scalpers price, had second thoughts, and got a refund before it was delivered. Fugg em.


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## trog100 (May 23, 2021)

well bitcoin is at 31K and eth at 1700... eth is tanking quite badly.. more so than bitcoin..

an awful lot of money is being lost.. i am curious to see what the US stock markets do tomorrow.. 

trog


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## Hemmingstamp (May 23, 2021)

trog100 said:


> well bitcoin is at 31K and eth at 1700... eth is tanking quite badly.. more so than bitcoin..
> 
> an awful lot of money is being lost.. i am curious to see what the US stock markets do tomorrow..
> 
> trog


Tank miners some more?


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## ZenZimZaliben (May 23, 2021)

What a crazy month! Entire market is down 50% from ATH. I'm holding for now but ready to buy more once everyone stops panic selling. Eth just went under 1800. Crazy. The odd thing is 70% of transacitons are buying.

Monday is going to be a bad day on the stock market.


----------



## sepheronx (May 23, 2021)

Trog, what did you do?


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## dragontamer5788 (May 23, 2021)

trog100 said:


> an awful lot of money is being lost.. i am curious to see what the US stock markets do tomorrow..



With inflation risks rising, value stocks will do fine, while growth stocks will decline.

Companies who need "investments" to continue forward (any growth stock with low revenues / profits) are going to suck in an inflationary environment. In contrast, anyone who owns say... lumber mills and/or gasoline refineries (simple and/or advanced means of production), will get more money and profits.

"Flight to safety", and all that. Bonds suck in inflation though, but... even then... we're seeing bond yields decline. So people are fearful right now.


----------



## LFaWolf (May 23, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> With inflation risks rising, value stocks will do fine, while growth stocks will decline.
> 
> Companies who need "investments" to continue forward (any growth stock with low revenues / profits) are going to suck in an inflationary environment. In contrast, anyone who owns say... lumber mills and/or gasoline refineries (simple and/or advanced means of production), will get more money and profits.
> 
> "Flight to safety", and all that. Bonds suck in inflation though, but... even then... we're seeing bond yields decline. So people are fearful right now.


Which will make it a good time to buy growth stock, although I am going to wait a bit because I don’t think it has reached the bottom yet.


----------



## dragontamer5788 (May 23, 2021)

LFaWolf said:


> Which will make it a good time to buy growth stock, although I am going to wait a bit because I don’t think it has reached the bottom yet.



Growth stocks are trying to raise money right now.

Ex: Tesla needs money to buy new factories in Germany. Or Tesla will have to raise money to build Cybertrucks and compete with Ford. That means they have to spend today's high-cost money now, to sell cars of the future (which will be innately discounted because of expected inflation).

Selling a Cybertruck in 2024, *AFTER* inflation wipes away 5% to 10% of its value is pretty bad, especially when they had to raise $5 Billion in 2021 money to build the factory.

$5 Billion in 2021 money after 10% inflation is going to be equivalent to $5.5 Billion in 2024 money (assuming ~3% inflation in 2021, 2022, and 2023). If you think we get more than 3% inflation each year, then adjust this math accordingly (We see that spending $5 Billion *today* will be equivalent to maybe $6 billion or even 6.5 billion in a few short years if inflation goes higher than expected) . Higher rates of inflation innately hurt growth companies. That's why people are fleeing them. Spending today's money in hopes of making money in the future (especially when "today's money" will come from either selling shares (depressing the price), or selling bonds (putting TSLA on the hook on a loan)).


----------

In contrast, a value-company like Ford already has the money to build the factory *without* need of raising money. In fact, Ford already has many factories, workers, and equipment that they can (relatively cheaply) reconfigure into making the F150 lightning. Ford won't need a loan or secondary offering to reconfigure its factories (or even build new ones), because Ford has an already established cash flow.

Ford is also going to be selling 800,000+ F150 ICE vehicles this year, and maybe a few million other vehicles. Earning money *this year* with high revenues / high profits is worth far, far more than promises of earning money 3 or 4 years from now (when inflation will eat away the money). In times of inflation, you want to earn money before the inflation eats away the money.

---------

Inflation, and Bond Yields, are a headwind against growth. Its easy for growth strategies to work in times of low inflation (see the entire decade of 2010 to 2019). But with inflation fears beginning to kick in, the rules of the market are going to change.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 23, 2021)

3% inflation is the normal rate. We are way, way beyond normal.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 23, 2021)

trog100 said:


> well bitcoin is at 31K and eth at 1700... eth is tanking quite badly.. more so than bitcoin..
> 
> an awful lot of money is being lost.. i am curious to see what the US stock markets do tomorrow..
> 
> trog


Very unlikely to do anything. This idea that cryptocoin is somehow linked to the financial markets of the world is nonsense. It is not and should not be.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 23, 2021)

trog100 said:


> well bitcoin is at 31K and eth at 1700... eth is tanking quite badly.. more so than bitcoin..
> 
> an awful lot of money is being lost.. i am curious to see what the US stock markets do tomorrow..
> 
> trog



I believe that Bitcoin and Crypto in general is an indicator of investors tolerance for risk, hence reflects risk aversion in other markets.

That tolerance has gone down a lot.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 23, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> That tolerance has gone down a lot.


True!


----------



## Vya Domus (May 23, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> This idea that cryptocoin is somehow linked to the financial markets of the world is nonsense. It is not and should not be.



Linked to "financial markets of the world" is too grand but there is definitely some correlation.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 23, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Linked to "financial markets of the world" is too grand but there is definitely some correlation.


Not sure there is merit to that. Very minor influence is the best we could likely state with any validity.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 23, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Not sure there is merit to that. Very minor influence is the best we could likely state with any validity.



Let me put it this way, we all know that there are few with a lot of money trading crypto, the ledgers attest to that. Do you think those people are only invested in crypto if they have so much capital on their hands ? Of course not, they likely have their hands in all sorts of markets hence their moves will be closely correlated across these segments.


----------



## trog100 (May 23, 2021)

it was said that the big players were buying bitcoin as a long term store of value.. buying to hold and not to trade.. 

if this is so and i believed it to be so.. what the f-ck is going on.. none of the fundamentals have changed.. 

i can imagine the newbs being panicked into selling but not the whales.. do they know something the rest of us dont.. maybe they do.. 

trog


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 23, 2021)

trog100 said:


> i can imagine the newbs being panicked into selling but not the whales.. do they know something the rest of us dont.. maybe they do..


It's not the noobs. It's everyone seeing the writing on the wall. Governments the world over are cracking down in unison. Cryptocoin is going to change, it has no choice. It is now effectively banned in the worlds largest economy, it's about to be heavily regulated in the worlds richest economy and the rest of the worlds governments are following suit. Profitability is going to tank as a result. It is unavoidable.


----------



## LFaWolf (May 23, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> Growth stocks are trying to raise money right now.
> 
> Ex: Tesla needs money to buy new factories in Germany. Or Tesla will have to raise money to build Cybertrucks and compete with Ford. That means they have to spend today's high-cost money now, to sell cars of the future (which will be innately discounted because of expected inflation).
> 
> ...



Your sentiment and calculation is what I hope other investors will follow - sell their tech growth stock to push the prices down some more and buy up Ford. Sure, for the next 3 years F may give you 10, at most 20% return, but they won't give you multiples. I buy growth stocks for the very long term, think 10 years long. I also think the inflation fear is overblown, but that is my opinion.

I also doubt F can sell that many trucks, given the chip shortage. I don't know much about F, but isn't its manufacturing and technology vastly behind Tesla? I heard GM and F have been making promises to go electric but it has been several years and nothing other than the Volt or Bolt is out, and the range is still terrible.


----------



## Shrek (May 23, 2021)

When you invest in a company the value goes up as the company is making something

Where is value being made in crypto-currency?


----------



## Jetster (May 23, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> When you invest in a company the value goes up as the company is making something
> 
> Where is value being made in crypto-currency?


Crypto has a value as a unit of exchange and it has held its value over time. Where is the value in the dollar?


----------



## R-T-B (May 23, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Where is value being made in crypto-currency


An international payment network is value.

People fail to grasp this.



Jetster said:


> Crypto has a value as a unit of exchange and it has held its value over time. Where is the value in the dollar?


The United States economy backs the value of the dollar.

It's really completely different.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 23, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Where is value being made in crypto-currency?


I've explained it above, people believe crypto will become the future of how transactions are made. The better the potential of a coin to be part of that future, the higher it will be valuated. That's just the theory though and is often far from reality.


lexluthermiester said:


> it's about to be heavily regulated in the worlds richest economy and the rest of the worlds governments are following suit. Profitability is going to tank as a result. It is unavoidable.



I fail to see how crypto can be regulated, you'd be basically attempting to control a distributed piece of software who's creators may even be completely anonymous. China is dancing around the idea of banning crypto by putting up various regulations with regards to mining and what not but they very obviously avoid to provide an outright ban on crypto because even they realize that's not really feasible and counter productive.

Exchanges yes, they can be regulated and that's likely what they'll do. But again, I fail to see how it will be any different from other services that allow you to trade stocks.


----------



## Jetster (May 23, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> An international payment network is value.
> 
> People fail to grasp this.
> 
> ...


More stable yes, different no. Its just a note of value, OK maybe its insured sometimes.


----------



## Final_Fighter (May 23, 2021)

trog100 said:


> it was said that the big players were buying bitcoin as a long term store of value.. buying to hold and not to trade..
> 
> if this is so and i believed it to be so.. what the f-ck is going on.. none of the fundamentals have changed..
> 
> ...


The big scare right now with the big money is not so much bitcoin but the stable coins. tether for example is linked 1:1 with the US dollar except it has a market cap of 57billion. this is one example. what is not understood at the moment and being questioned is what will happen to these "stable coins" if people panic sale. can tether actually give you 1:1 value all the way down to 0 market cap? in other words, is the price of stables manipulated, is there actually gold in fort knox? tether has been grey area for most and the way it works internally is not exactly clear. if the price of stables has been somehow manipulated to be worth more than they are than it would show the entire market is actually just inflated in value much higher than it should be. most the growth recently came from the defi space witch falls heavily on stable coins. if stable coins are not really stable than it was just a painted glass house waiting for someone to throw a stone threw it. thats what i have been able to dig up and it would seem there are others looking at this possibility too.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 23, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> I fail to see how crypto can be regulated, you'd be basically attempting to control a distributed piece of software who's creators may even be completely anonymous.


That's been said before. Yet governments find a way. It's not like it'll be that difficult.


----------



## R-T-B (May 23, 2021)

Jetster said:


> More stable yes, different no. Its just a note of value, OK maybe its insured sometimes.


The valuation methods are completely different.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 23, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> That's been said before. Yet governments find a way. It's not like it'll be that difficult.



Just like they stopped piracy... Because decentralized is always easy to stop. Only thing they can control is the exchanges in their country. I don't have to trade using an American exchange


----------



## trog100 (May 23, 2021)

well its stopped going down and has gone up a tad.. will will see what tomorrow brings..

trog


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> I don't have to trade using an American exchange


No, but if you are a US citizen and you fail to report and pay the appropriate taxes, you go to jail, pay court fines and THEN pay the taxes anyway, with IRS imposed penalties. Have fun with that!


----------



## mtcn77 (May 24, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> No, but if you are a US citizen and you fail to report and pay the appropriate taxes, you go to jail, pay court fines and THEN pay the taxes anyway, with IRS imposed penalties. Have fun with that!


This is so very true. People think they can make their own paper currency.


----------



## trog100 (May 24, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> No, but if you are a US citizen and you fail to report and pay the appropriate taxes, you go to jail, pay court fines and THEN pay the taxes anyway, with IRS imposed penalties. Have fun with t



there is a world full of people that are not US citizens lex.. tis a shame most Americans dont seem aware of this.. he he he

trog


----------



## mtcn77 (May 24, 2021)

trog100 said:


> there is a world full of people that are not US citizens lex.. tis a shame most Americans dont seem aware of this.. he he he
> 
> trog


Paying tax is just one form of validation in the currency, it is traded in. American or not, you cannot file taxes with bartering. Bitter reality is, currency has to be backed up by something. Something like a hard asset.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 24, 2021)

trog100 said:


> there is a world full of people that are not US citizens lex.. tis a shame most Americans dont seem aware of this.. he he he
> 
> trog



I am pretty sure that is why he said "if you are a US citizen".  

I'm not really aware of any country that has no income taxes whatsoever.  Please feel free to inform though I would very much be interested in that.


----------



## mtcn77 (May 24, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> I am pretty sure that is why he said "if you are a US citizen".
> 
> I'm not really aware of any country that has no income taxes whatsoever.  Please feel free to inform though I would very much be interested in that.


I'm sure with the SARS-2, we can be astute they don't need virtual currencies any more to cool the economy.


----------



## R-T-B (May 24, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> People think they can make their own paper currency.


I mean, historically, yes, you can.  The USA didn't even have a univeral bank note for a long time in it's existence.  People forget that.



mtcn77 said:


> I'm sure with the SARS-2, we can be astute they don't need virtual currencies any more to cool the economy.


That's not what he asked at all.


----------



## mtcn77 (May 24, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I mean, historically, yes, you can. The USA didn't even have a univeral bank note for a long time in it's existence. People forget that.


No, no, I said money 'not earned through means of productive industry' in the other thread.
Such money is no different than a virtual currency since it would default on its purchasing power if it were used. Like bitcoin.
We Turks actually like USA with your self-governance in historical terms.


----------



## R-T-B (May 24, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> No, no, I said money 'not earned through means of productive industry' in the other thread.
> Such money is no different than a virtual currency since it would default on its purchasing power if it were used. Like bitcoin.
> We Turks actually like USA with your self-governance in historical terms.


Oh, I agree there.  Just did not see your other comment.


----------



## sepheronx (May 24, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> No, no, I said money 'not earned through means of productive industry' in the other thread.
> Such money is no different than a virtual currency since it would default on its purchasing power if it were used. Like bitcoin.
> We Turks actually like USA with your self-governance in historical terms.


What is going on regarding the crypto market in Turkey anyway?


----------



## mtcn77 (May 24, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> What is going on regarding the crypto market in Turkey anyway?


I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression. I cannot give an answer.


----------



## sepheronx (May 24, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression. I cannot give an answer.


Fair enough.  Wish everyone best of luck.


----------



## mtcn77 (May 24, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Fair enough.  Wish everyone best of luck.


_-"Who is 'John Galt'?..."_


----------



## sepheronx (May 24, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> _-"Who is 'John Galt'?..."_


I see you liked Atlas Shrugged.


----------



## mtcn77 (May 24, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> I see you liked Atlas Shrugged.


I like skyscrapers and arch-truss bridges.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 24, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> That's been said before. Yet governments find a way. It's not like it'll be that difficult.



Not this time they wont, like someone pointed out above, it's like trying to stop piracy. You can do various things to drive away people from it, sure, but to control it, it's not feasible.


----------



## mtcn77 (May 24, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Not this time they wont, like someone pointed out above, it's like trying to stop piracy. You can do various things to drive away people from it, sure, but to control it, it's not feasible.


Why control it when it doesn't go anywhere?


----------



## Vya Domus (May 24, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> Why control it when it doesn't go anywhere?



Because supposedly that's what they'll want to do, control supply, transaction fees, interest rates etc. Which they can't.


----------



## mtcn77 (May 24, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Because supposedly that's what they'll want to do, control supply, transaction fees, interest rates etc. Which they can't.


That is what you think. You have to be connected to a power outlet. Just where do you think you can go not to be tracked, space?


----------



## Vya Domus (May 24, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> You have to be connected to a power outlet. Just where do you think you can go not to be tracked, space?



What does that have to do with this ?


----------



## mtcn77 (May 24, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> What does that have to do with this ?


At least, VISA has a 4:1 advantage in power usage. You are a sitting duck. You have to have a heat map signature. If you think they cannot trace you, that is because it is not necessary to do so. They just regulate the exchanges. A house plant doesn't go very far...


----------



## Vya Domus (May 24, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> At least, VISA has a 4:1 advantage in power usage. You are a sitting duck. If you think they cannot trace you, that is because it is not necessary to do so. A house plant doesn't go travelling...


You make some strange connection between power usage and tracking which I do not understand. First of all most coins will move to POS so the power consumption will gradually become less and less of a problem. Secondly, tracking down crypto usage can be made to be near impossible, encryption is a real bitch.


----------



## mtcn77 (May 24, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> You make some strange connection between power usage and tracking which I do not understand. First of all most coins will move to POS so the power consumption will gradually become less and less of a problem. Secondly, tracking down crypto usage can be made to be near impossible, encryption is a real bitch.


I don't intend to use unnecessary brain cells. It is just that even after generation - which gives pinpoint accuracy on the source - internet packages can be tracked and if you think not, you can assume no one is listening in on the line, but I won't. I'm okay with people assuming they can verify the whole chain of trust by themselves when there are entire departments for this sort of thing.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 24, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> It is just that even after generation - which gives pinpoint accuracy on the source - internet packages can be tracked and if you think not, you can assume no one is listening in on the line, but I won't. I'm okay with people assuming they can verify the whole chain of trust by themselves when there are entire departments for this sort of thing.



You can track packages, what you can't do is know what all of them contain. Good luck acquiring and analyzing roughly 10^15 packets per day. Without knowing ahead of time what to target specifically it's hopeless, throw in some onion routing and you're done. And even if you knew, again, application level encryption can screw up your day.

We're talking about a gargantuan effort and for what ? So that your government can know if you've been transferring dogecoin around ?



mtcn77 said:


> I don't intend to use unnecessary brain cells.



Be careful as to not skimp on too much of those.


----------



## mtcn77 (May 24, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> You can track packages, what you can't do is know what all of them contain. Good luck acquiring and analyzing roughly 10^15 packets per day. Without knowing ahead of time what to target specifically it's hopeless. And even if you knew, again, application level encryption can screw up your day.
> 
> 
> 
> Be careful as to not skimp on too much of those.


I understand you are a westerner and this is your idea of freedom, but it is closer to rebelliousness by my understanding. Being insubordinate might actually be contempt and therefore vanity if it clashes with humility. Occam's razor.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 24, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> I understand you are a westerner and this is your idea of freedom, but it is closer to rebelliousness by my understanding. Being insubordinate might actually be contempt and therefore vanity if it clashes with humility. Occam's razor.



I am actually not a westerner, I know there is little to no real privacy but that's simply because you give it up by using certain pieces of software. However, if you really want to, you can still pass around data that's near impossible to be tracked or understood.


----------



## mtcn77 (May 24, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> I am actually not a westerner, I know there is little to no real privacy but that's simply because you give it up by using certain pieces of software. However, if you really want to, you can still pass around data that's near impossible to be tracked or understood.


Sounds like security by ambiguity. Sorry if I look too limp, I never assume the subsequent. ESL and mental slowness makes me a pessimist. I'm sure there are some people less negatively predisposed to a roulette table.


----------



## trog100 (May 24, 2021)

that is what i wanted to see.. bitcoin up at 36K and eth at 2265.. 

trog


----------



## sepheronx (May 24, 2021)

trog100 said:


> that is what i wanted to see.. bitcoin up at 36K and eth at 2265..
> 
> trog


it goes up, it goes down.  It will go down again I presume.  But if not, then I missed out on more.


----------



## Chomiq (May 24, 2021)

trog100 said:


> that is what i wanted to see.. bitcoin up at 36K and eth at 2265..
> 
> trog


It's been like this since Wednesday, downward trend continues nonetheless.


----------



## trog100 (May 24, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> it goes up, it goes down.  It will go down again I presume.  But if not, then I missed out on more.



i am rather hoping the down selling is now over and its up from now on..

having said that i (unlike the negative no coiners in this thread) do have a horse in the race.. this does influence what i think.. 

i saw no logical reason for the huge losses we have just seen except manipulation by whales and panic selling by newbs..

there is no real change in the fundamentals for most of this year the fundamentals have said up so i am just waiting for things to get back on course..

trog..


----------



## Vya Domus (May 24, 2021)

Prices will certainly bounce for quite a while, you have lot of people who are still on the fence about selling (likely those who bought in pre 2021 and missed the signals) and new investors are buying and immediately selling out of fear as soon as there is a slight dip.


----------



## trog100 (May 24, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Prices will certainly bounce for quite a while, you have lot of people who are still on the fence about selling (likely those who bought in pre 2021 and missed the signals) and new investors are buying and immediately selling out of fear as soon as there is a slight dip.



the fear hasnt arrived by accident.. its been but there by people who have an agenda..

the big fear is that bitcoin will keep going down and that a cycle top has been reached.. i see 30K as a pivot point and 35K as a stable bottom.. back up to 40K and holding there will soon bring the confidence back..

time will tell..

trog

ps.. long term (years) bitcoin has only one clear signal.. it keeps going up..


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2021)

trog100 said:


> there is a world full of people that are not US citizens lex.. tis a shame most Americans dont seem aware of this.. he he he
> 
> trog


Gee, thanx for the tip. I was sooo not aware of that... 


Vya Domus said:


> Not this time they wont, like someone pointed out above, it's like trying to stop piracy. You can do various things to drive away people from it, sure, but to control it, it's not feasible.


Yeah, keep telling yourself that... The US governement has treaties and agreements with nearly half of the nations of the world. So as a general rule, when the US government makes a law about something that has international implications, especially were finances and taxation is concerned, partner nations generally follow suit.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 24, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> it goes up, it goes down...


But it never goes round and round.... Hmmmmm.
Loving all the crystal ball predictions here


----------



## Vya Domus (May 24, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> The US governement has treaties and agreements with nearly half of the nations of the world. So as a general rule, when the US government makes a law about something that has international implications, especially were finances and taxation is concerned, partner nations generally follow suit.


Matter of the fact is you keep saying it will without providing any explanations on how it would be done.


----------



## mtcn77 (May 24, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Matter of the fact is you keep saying it will without providing any explanations on how it would be done.


Trickle down economics.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 24, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> Trickle down economics.



Crypto is already taxed in many countries.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 24, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> It's been like this since Wednesday, downward trend continues nonetheless.


You'll never get that 3090, just face the fact


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Matter of the fact is you keep saying it will without providing any explanations on how it would be done.


I'm not a lawmaker and I'm not willing to spend 3 days of my time trying to help you understand a concept that should be plainly obvious.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 24, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I'm not a lawmaker and I'm not willing to spend 3 days of my time trying to help you understand a concept that should be plainly obvious.



You're not a lawmaker but you simultaneously insist that you could sit here for 3 days to explain all this, how very humble.

Also, they're so painfully obvious you couldn't even mention one thing. Cool story.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> You're not a lawmaker but you simultaneously insist that you could sit here for 3 days to explain it, very humble.
> 
> Also, they're so painfully obvious you couldn't even mention one thing. Cool story.


Ah, you're flame baiting. Gotcha.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 24, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ah, you're flame baiting. Gotcha.



Gaslighting, classic.

Not the first time you insist to be right with zero arguments either, so I didn't expect much from you other that to jump straight to trolling.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Gaslighting, classic.
> 
> Not the first time you insist to be right with zero arguments either, so I didn't expect much from you other that to jump straight to trolling.


Ok, sure. Anything else? Or do you want to continue with the personal attacks?


----------



## mtcn77 (May 24, 2021)

Bitcoin has a few of the white collar workers here stressed. How befitting...


----------



## 64K (May 24, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> While in general I can’t stand very much the crypto crowd (even though technically I’m part of it) I also can’t help but notice that there has been some heavy misinformation being spread around in the last few days. Seems like every morning there‘s a new “China crypto ban” or ”crackdown“, another word of choice news outlets love to use, which turns out to be not quite that. Markets move accordingly, of course.



How can you be technically  be a part of it and not be a part of it at the same time?


----------



## Final_Fighter (May 24, 2021)

Bitcoin is officially a new asset class: Goldman Sachs
					

Goldman Sachs makes the call: Cryptocurrency should now be considered an asset class.




					finance.yahoo.com


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 24, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ok, sure. Anything else?



Let me try... IF the government is able to track and control crypto the way you want. Then the entire crypto market would crash world-wide and worse. This would mean the government has something capable of breaking the entirely encrypted, decentralized and anonymous blockchain and controlling it. You see it's not just the Currency that makes crypto so cool, it is actually the Block Chain ledger system that is even cooler and more powerful. The day the government can track and trace every transaction to an individual is the same day that Crypto and Digital Banking as a whole is corrupted and ruined. If our stupid government can do it then anyone out in the public will be able to as well, and we are now back to trading sea shells and shiny rocks for squirrel meat. Don't worry they are not even close to being able to do this and honestly they may never be able to.


----------



## Chomiq (May 24, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> You'll never get that 3090, just face the fact


I'd be happy with 3060 Ti but nowadays they match 3090's MSRP.


----------



## trog100 (May 24, 2021)

bitcoin is showing a nice steady rise up to 38K and eth a nice steady rise up to 2500..

nice and steady is good.. spikes not so good.. he he

purely my personnel opinion but i recon we are on the way up again.. the panic inducing fud is over.. 

trog


----------



## 64K (May 24, 2021)

Hell, I would be happy with a 3080.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 24, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> I'd be happy with 3060 Ti but nowadays they match 3090's MSRP.


No joy on getting one of those either. I made an enquiry at a few web stores and never got a reply. Probably thought I was mad even asking


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Let me try... IF the government is able to track and control crypto the way you want. Then the entire crypto market would crash world-wide and worse. This would mean the government has something capable of breaking the entirely encrypted, decentralized and anonymous blockchain and controlling it. You see it's not just the Currency that makes crypto so cool, it is actually the Block Chain ledger system that is even cooler and more powerful. The day the government can track and trace every transaction to an individual is the same day that Crypto and Digital Banking as a whole is corrupted and ruined. If our stupid government can do it then anyone out in the public will be able to as well, and we are now back to trading sea shells and shiny rocks for squirrel meat. Don't worry they are not even close to being able to do this and honestly they may never be able to.


Ah, but your making it more complicated than it needs to be. The government doesn't need to track it all, just the transactions that come through the nation in question. Imposing regulations that require transactions to be declared and imposing strict penalties for violation is all that is needed. Governments don't need to track the cryptocoin itself, they can track the transactions that take place within their boarders by requiring all repositories to report transactions. This is how China is going to do it and there are no rules that restrict other governments, even the USA, from doing the same or similar. Anything that flies under the radar would be criminalized.

No financial institution will risk it's operations not complying.



Final_Fighter said:


> Bitcoin is officially a new asset class: Goldman Sachs
> 
> 
> Goldman Sachs makes the call: Cryptocurrency should now be considered an asset class.
> ...


Goldman Sachs is not a government entity. They have no authority to make such a call.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 24, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> The government doesn't need to track it all, just the transactions that come through the nation in question. Imposing regulations that require transactions to be declared and imposing strict penalties for violation is all that is needed.



See that right there would break everything.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> See that right there would break everything.


How so?


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 24, 2021)

Because to Track Some you have to be able to Track All. The block chain is 1..entity and to be able to read some of it, means you can read all of it.


----------



## phill (May 24, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Gaslighting, classic.
> 
> Not the first time you insist to be right with zero arguments either, so I didn't expect much from you other that to jump straight to trolling.





lexluthermiester said:


> Ah, you're flame baiting. Gotcha.


Come on guys....  Be a little bit less, er, what's the PC term.......  Catty??  If you both don't see eye to eye, put each other on ignore rather than waste a page of forum battling between each other...  

Don't make me get Mr " @Solaris17 " Clamps in here clamping away....  Please be civil    It's just Bitcoin...


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Because to Track Some you have to be able to Track All. The block chain is 1..entity and to be able to read some of it, means you can read all of it.


You missed my point, the government doesn't need track the blockchain itself, they just have to track the transactions being made with it. Far easier and very doable task.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 24, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> You missed my point, the government doesn't need track the blockchain itself, they just have to track the transactions being made with it. Far easier and very doable task.


No it's not. It's encrypted and decentralized. To be able to track transactions to an individual in a country at their house means breaking encryption and the block chain. Otherwise it's just random packets on the internet. You have to be able to man-in-the-middle every packet coming into a country and then decrypt every packet to see if it is blockchain, then decrypt the blockchain to trace to an individual.

ANY tracking and Idenifying of the blockchain means you have the ability to decrypt it in transit, which means you just broke crypto, blockchain and digital banking.

You might think it's easy, but it isn't at all. If you have a very secure house, but give the keys to a friend and say don't go in my bedroom, that's fine but they CAN still go in the bedroom if they want. Same thing. Once you can track/trace/identify blockchain you have the keys to house and I guarantee you will not stay out of the bedroom/blockchain.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> No it's not. It's encrypted and decentralized.


You still have to use a financial institution of some kind at some point to "cash out" . So yes, it IS traceable.


ZenZimZaliben said:


> ANY tracking and Idenifying of the blockchain means you have the ability to decrypt it in transit, which means you just broke crypto, blockchain and digital banking.


You're arguing a different point. I'm not saying OWNing cryptocoin can be tracked(though I'm VERY certain there is a way). I'm saying USING it can be tracked, very easily, especially if regulations require businesses to report such use. It becomes a trivial task if businesses report cryptocoin usage. Requiring such is itself a trivial task.


----------



## thesmokingman (May 24, 2021)

China's starting to crackdown on all those miners in Greater Mongolia... there's goes 90% of btc's power.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 24, 2021)

Up again it goes.....


----------



## trog100 (May 24, 2021)

eth is up 34% on the day and still rising... there is still a lot of buying power still lurking in there.. 

trog


----------



## dorsetknob (May 24, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> The US governement has treaties and agreements with nearly half of the nations of the world. So as a general rule, when the US government makes a law about something that has international implications, especially were finances and taxation is concerned, partner nations generally follow suit.


Anyone who Trades with USA  will generally comply closely regarding US law except those that have both the political and financial clout to go their own way.
The USA is too big a market for others to ignore for many.


----------



## Chomiq (May 24, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> Up again it goes.....


Expect it to go down within the next 12 hours.

You don't need to be financial analyst to see the trend, you just have to look past the 24h period:


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 24, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> Expect it to go down within the next 12 hours.
> 
> You don't need to be financial analyst to see the trend, you just have to look past the 24h period:


Maybe.....

I have live data but thanks all the same.
You still aint having that 3090 @ MSRP


----------



## Vya Domus (May 24, 2021)

A function follows a trend until there's an inflection point, technical analysis is notorious for failing to predict these points precisely quite often since they are typically the result of an unpredictable event out in the world. But when they're not and many gang up with the same strategy and sell orders it tends to become a self fulfilling prophecy and many investors get burned at their own hands. This is in part explains why really bad crashes occur out of the blue.

What I'm saying is don't just watch the trends, they can be misleading.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 24, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> What I'm saying is don't just watch the trends, they can be misleading.


I don't. But Chomiq does.


----------



## Papahyooie (May 24, 2021)

People complain about not being able to get 30xx's when you could have just used your old cards and mined enough to buy a prebuilt PC with a 3080 or 3090 in it. Guaranteed way to get a 30 series card if you don't mind waiting for them to build it lol.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> Up again it goes.....


If you look at the 7 day, it's not that much..


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 24, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> If you look at the 7 day, it's not that much..


I know, The downward spiral had me on the oxygen mask throughout. Joking aside, I can't see it crashing like it did a few years back.
But I'm not privvy to insider knowledge.


----------



## trog100 (May 24, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> If you look at the 7 day, it's not that much..


 
the only time period that matters is the one after that nasty crash down to 30K.. 30K was an important pivital point.. 

trog


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> I know, The downward spiral had me on the oxygen mask throughout. Joking aside, I can't see it crashing like it did a few years back.
> But I'm not privvy to insider knowledge.


If you look at the trends, it seems like it's actually going to crash harder...



trog100 said:


> the only time period that matters is the one after that nasty crash down to 30K.. 30K was an important pivital point..
> 
> trog


Nope, it's not done yet. Wait for it.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 24, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> If you look at the trends, it seems like it's actually going to crash harder...


We'll see. I take litte to no notice of trends. If I did I would have sold everything including some internal organs.
Being erratic can lead to bad decisions, I'm not in that camp.
(Lend me a Dime Lex, I'm so poor right now)


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 24, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I mean, historically, yes, you can.  The USA didn't even have a univeral bank note for a long time in it's existence.  People forget that.



The only thing a US State can coin must be actual coin of silver and gold.  It's in the Constitution.  

Text of Article 1, Section 10:
No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal;* coin Money*; emit Bills of Credit; *make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts*; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 25, 2021)

CoinRanking.com has things in a bump back up. Interesting.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 25, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> They might have a few days or even a week or two to think about it.  I see it bouncing up a bit on a daily scale, the divergence in price action (bottom of the image, the purple trend line at the bottom of the money flow indicator) is something that in laymans terms means 'there are more sellers than buyers at this low, but they did not outnumber sellers as much as they did at the last low'.   In other words, the decline is weakening.
> 
> Also worth noting, this plowed through the 200 day moving average and then went right back to it, the 200DMA is at 39840 right now, BTC at 39,332.  My guess is it will fight around that level for a few days.
> 
> It did this exact same thing back in April with the 50 day moving average.  The 50 is the wavy purple line, I circled in red where it blew through it in April.  That took about 2 weeks to work out.  The 200 day moving average is the red line coming across.  BTC rose right back up to it, just like in April.



^^^ This is exactly what BTC is doing now at the 200DMA, just like it did with the 50 Day Moving Average. 

I do not know if it will make a solid break of the 200DMA.  If it does, and exhibits bullish momentum upwards, it will have to break the 50DMA again as well. 

It's clear it's going to have a go at it as it has upwards momentum. 

If it does not break and stay above the 200DMA in the next few days to a week, it's likely that it will go down to the next support area which is around 20K.  

At that point, the 50DMA might be crossing the 200DMA, which would likely signal more selling.  The blue curved line from the left is the 50 Day where it stalled around 50-55K.  The red line is the 200DMA where it looks like it is bottoming for a run at the 200 in lower right.  RSI shows a bottom divergence (bullish) on daily scale, we'll see how far that takes it.

Edit: And Ethereum is fighting with its 50 DMA.   I think whatever the resolution is, it'll be the same for ETH and BTC.


----------



## R-T-B (May 25, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> That is what you think. You have to be connected to a power outlet. Just where do you think you can go not to be tracked, space?


Solar panels exist.  And bitcoin DOES have satellites in space running blockchain, so the irony in that one is a little funny.



lexluthermiester said:


> You still have to use a financial institution of some kind at some point to "cash out" . So yes, it IS traceable.


There's bitcoin sales that take place person to person for cash.  I believe localbitcoin(?) used (is?) to be the goto site for that.  Honestly it gets A LOT more traffic this way than you would expect.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 25, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> There's bitcoin sales that take place person to person for cash. I believe localbitcoin(?) used (is?) to be the goto site for that. Honestly it gets A LOT more traffic this way than you would expect.


While true, the moment regulations go into effect, the anonymous nature of it goes bye-bye and cashing-out becomes impossible without either declaring who you are and paying the taxes or breaking the law outright.


----------



## R-T-B (May 25, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> While true, the moment regulations go into effect, the anonymous nature of it goes bye-bye and cashing-out becomes impossible without either declaring who you are and paying the taxes or breaking the law outright.


True.  Just saying completely shutting it down is akin to the war on drugs or piracy or whatever unwinnable battle you pick.

You'll never "win" but sometimes that isn't the point either.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 25, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> You'll never "win" but sometimes that isn't the point either.


Good point!


----------



## Outback Bronze (May 25, 2021)

Apparently China is allowing Crypto trading again. Unsure if its true.


----------



## trog100 (May 25, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> Apparently China is allowing Crypto trading again. Unsure if its true.
> 
> View attachment 201520



in a limited way.. only certain people and maybe certain coins.. banks and the rich being those certain people..

trog

ps.. bitcoin and eth are dropping a bit.. not much so far but it could be another attempt to take it down below 30K.. but then again it could be nothing.. he he.. 

trog


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 26, 2021)

Bitcoin bouncing off the 200DMA, raring back for another try.  15 min scale (the pink horizontal is the current 200DMA, give or take 50 bucks).





And ETH doing the exact same thing with the 50 day moving average, a little more success but still a fail.

It's amazing how similar these two charts look :


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 26, 2021)

And yet for both ETH and BTC the overwhelming amount of transactions are BUY. Like 70/30. I'm up 1K per Eth right now since the low and almost 9k on BTC.  Crypto is always on a cliff or a rocket to the moon, no long drives on flat roads. Daily.


----------



## trog100 (May 26, 2021)

from what i called the pivot point.. the last low.. eth is up near 50% and bitcoin around 30%.. the recovery is looking good..

for it to stick though we do need to keep going higher.. up to 50K.. if we get there its off to the moon again.. 

trog


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 26, 2021)

trog100 said:


> from what i called the pivot point.. the last low.. eth is up near 50% and bitcoin around 30%.. the recovery is looking good..
> 
> for it to stick though we do need to keep going higher.. up to 50K.. if we get there its off to the moon again..
> 
> trog



But if you look at the last 5ms of transactions, 2 people sold and 1 person bought, so the entire crypto market just went bust. /s


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 27, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> But if you look at the last 5ms of transactions, 2 people sold and 1 person bought, so the entire crypto market just went bust. /s



Do you realize you are like the ultimate contrarian indicator?   Every time you post something about BTC or ETH the crypto market tanks within a few hours.  I should chart that.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 27, 2021)

Nice! I can work with that.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 27, 2021)

Like I said, it will bounce around for a while, it's clearly encountering resistance both ways. I'm still convinced these movements were largely orchestrated, BTC price in particular is behaving a lot more like conventional stocks than it ever did.

The market is moved such that it maximizes retail investor involvement after which you get major dumps with a lot of selling pressure and shorting potential. It's fine if you notice the pattern and pay attention to the narratives in the news and when FUD is being generated but if you don't you're gonna get burned.


----------



## trog100 (May 27, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Like I said, it will bounce around for a while, it's clearly encountering resistance both ways. I'm still convinced these movements were largely orchestrated, BTC price in particular is behaving a lot more like conventional stocks than it ever did.
> 
> The market is moved such that it maximizes retail investor involvement after which you get major dumps with a lot of selling pressure and shorting potential. It's fine if you notice the pattern and pay attention to the narratives in the news and when FUD is being generated but if you don't you're gonna get burned.



i think you are right.. the fact the entire crypto market seems to be controlled by the bitcoin price makes this easier to do.. 

i am reassured by the belief that in the end the people doing the manipulating ultimately want the price of bitcoin and eth to go much higher.. its a long tern game.. 

trog


----------



## qubit (May 27, 2021)

Iran bans crypto mining during hot summer months
https://www.rt.com/business/524923-iran-bans-crypto-mining-sunner/


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 27, 2021)

qubit said:


> Iran bans crypto mining during hot summer months
> https://www.rt.com/business/524923-iran-bans-crypto-mining-sunner/View attachment 201796


Stand by to make it permanent...


----------



## trog100 (May 27, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Stand by to make it permanent...



and why on earth would a country like iran wish to do that.. he he..

trog

ps.. bitcoin and eth down again today.. we could be seeing another dive to below 30K.. the recovery momentum seems to have been lost..


----------



## sepheronx (May 28, 2021)

trog100 said:


> and why on earth would a country like iran wish to do that.. he he..
> 
> trog
> 
> ...


Better sell me your GPUs since you seem down on these typical fluctuations.


----------



## trog100 (May 28, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Better sell me your GPUs since you seem down on these typical fluctuations.



he he he.. i read it as i read it.. i saw a recovery but that recovery stalled out at 40K.. a true bottom hasnt been found yet.. before new highs can be reached a believable bottom has to be established.. 

i still think long term the only way is up.. short term things may go lower.. i just hodle and watch i am in it long term..

trog


----------



## sepheronx (May 28, 2021)

trog100 said:


> he he he.. i read it as i read it.. i saw a recovery but that recovery stalled out at 40K.. a true bottom hasnt been found yet.. before new highs can be reached a believable bottom has to be established..
> 
> i still think long term the only way is up.. short term things may go lower.. i just hodle and watch i am in it long term..
> 
> trog


Yeah, even some of the big players I listen to, whom also predicted this drop, is saying that by end of year we should see a large spike upwards.  Still speculation.  But it appears fr Goldman Sachs and alike, they want it low so they can buy more. Their recent mass purchases (whomever it may be but we all speculate) had driven prices up to which they weren't willing to pay.

I may be mining but I'm actually staking in coins like Cardano.  It has lots of huge prospects and thus I use some BTC from mining to convert to ADA.  But not all of it.


----------



## trog100 (May 28, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Yeah, even some of the big players I listen to, whom also predicted this drop, is saying that by end of year we should see a large spike upwards.  Still speculation.  But it appears fr Goldman Sachs and alike, they want it low so they can buy more. Their recent mass purchases (whomever it may be but we all speculate) had driven prices up to which they weren't willing to pay.
> 
> I may be mining but I'm actually staking in coins like Cardano.  It has lots of huge prospects and thus I use some BTC from mining to convert to ADA.  But not all of it.



i spent £500 on ada back in 2018.. i got 1035.. but i cant remember where i put it.. it seems to have got lost.. he he..

i have notice a slight fall in Ebay gpu prices.. eth mining returns are not as good as they were.. mine are down to less than $60 dollars per day.. which aint a lot for 730 m/sh.. 

trog


----------



## sepheronx (May 28, 2021)

trog100 said:


> i spent £500 on ada back in 2018.. i got 1035.. but i cant remember where i put it.. it seems to have got lost.. he he..
> 
> i have notice a slight fall in Ebay gpu prices.. eth mining returns are not as good as they were.. mine are down to less than $60 dollars per day.. which aint a lot for 730 m/sh..
> 
> trog



That seems to be back to normal more like.  The huge gains was a short time thing anyway.  I am still making more than I did before but that is because I also added 2 3080's.


----------



## 64K (May 28, 2021)

Looks like coins are taking a beating today. Is it still at a point where it's worth it to continue to mine?
I'm suspicious that people like Elon Musk and other whales are working together to manipulate the prices down just so they can buy more.


----------



## sepheronx (May 28, 2021)

Well depends. How much you making vs electricity prices.

I'm making $40 cad a day. I pay roughly $40 cad a month extra in electricity prices ($0.062 kW/h) and so it's big time good for me. Just hold the coins till prices go back up. That's what I'm doing.

I'm not even sure I understand what people get at when they ask if it's worth mining and mention the Whales.  The Whales want it to go up eventually so that they earn. Concept of investing is making more out of what you put in.  Just ride the wave. Next growth, if you feel, sell the coins and earn the profit from mining. Then continue to mine, especially when it goes down, and then rinse and repeat.


----------



## trog100 (May 28, 2021)

64K said:


> Looks like coins are taking a beating today. Is it still at a point where it's worth it to continue to mine?
> I'm suspicious that people like Elon Musk and other whales are working together to manipulate the prices down just so they can buy more.



i think we are about to see bitcoin being driven down below 30K.. i cant see any other reason than the whales playing whale games.. 

its still profitable to mine.. 

trog


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 28, 2021)

trog100 said:


> i think we are about to see bitcoin being driven down below 30K.. i cant see any other reason than the whales playing whale games..
> 
> its still profitable to mine..
> 
> trog




I really don't get the whale comments, seems like blame game / conspiracy theory to me.  Tesla took a $1.5B stake in Bitcoin, said it had sold 272M in Q1 and was down to 1.33B in BTC.  According to Statista, BTC had hit a market cap of over $1T, and now sits in the 800B+ range.  Tesla's investment is significant vs that number, but not enough to move BTC for any extended period.

Yes they have enough to manipulate the market - for an hour.  According to bitcoin stats, just in the last 24 hours $43.5B worth of bitcoin transactions occurred.  So Tesla's entire BTC stake is worth 3.06% of the last 24 hours of transactions and 0.0016% of the market cap.  If you've ever bought into a stock that say has a transaction volume of 30,000 per day, and you bought 1000 and saw a momentary spike in price (a lot of CEFs are low volume like this - income funds), that's more than what Tesla can do to BTC.  Anything they do is going to be transient.

  I would bet that there are multiple drug cartels that own more bitcoin than Tesla.  They along with Chinese miners probably have a stake here, and may foolishly be trying to manipulate the market, but if so you can bet they are trying to drive it up not down.

BTC has repeatedly failed to get past the 200DMA.  I don't think it has more than one more attempt left in it before it either succeeds or plummets.  

The 200DMA is that pink horizontal line.


----------



## trog100 (May 28, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> I really don't get the whale comments, seems like blame game / conspiracy theory to me.  Tesla took a $1.5B stake in Bitcoin, said it had sold 272M in Q1 and was down to 1.33B in BTC.  According to Statista, BTC had hit a market cap of over $1T, and now sits in the 800B+ range.  Tesla's investment is significant vs that number, but not enough to move BTC for any extended period.
> 
> Yes they have enough to manipulate the market - for an hour.  According to bitcoin stats, just in the last 24 hours $43.5B worth of bitcoin transactions occurred.  So Tesla's entire BTC stake is worth 3.06% of the last 24 hours of transactions and 0.0016% of the market cap.  If you've ever bought into a stock that say has a transaction volume of 30,000 per day, and you bought 1000 and saw a momentary spike in price (a lot of CEFs are low volume like this - income funds), that's more than what Tesla can do to BTC.  Anything they do is going to be transient.
> 
> ...




when i say whales i dont really mean tesla.. i mean people who have been in the market for a long time and hodled and who really do own loads of bitcoin.. musk and his twitters dosnt really count.. he he..

musk is a dolphin compared to the people i am talking about..

trog


----------



## Vya Domus (May 28, 2021)

64K said:


> I'm suspicious that people like Elon Musk and other whales are working together to manipulate the prices down just so they can buy more.


They win either way.

I've explained above, it all starts with hype, the goal is to maximize retail investor involvement, then you gradually dump supply into the market so that investors keep buying dips down to their last dime. Then you finally dump everything, panic selling ensues and you start shorting.

Elon Musk's initial love for crypto fueled the hype, BTC bumped up against the 60K mark for quite a while singling that a celling was reached and retail investors reached the limits of their buying power. Then came the shit talking seemingly out of nowhere, a lot of supply was dumped in a very short time and we know the rest. The timing is too perfect, I am not saying it was his doing but he was obviously one of the many cogs in the machine, everyone who thinks people like him were just trolls is either really naïve or just dumb.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 28, 2021)

trog100 said:


> ps.. bitcoin and eth down again today.. we could be seeing another dive to below 30K.. the recovery momentum seems to have been lost..


Yeah, it has taken a plunge again... This crash is turning out to be different from the last one. Far more fluctuations...



trog100 said:


> musk is a dolphin compared to the people i am talking about..


Care to explain that?


----------



## trog100 (May 28, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Yeah, it has taken a plunge again... This crash is turning out to be different from the last one. Far more fluctuations...
> 
> 
> Care to explain that?



i think there are people mostly nameless who work behind the scenes and carry a lot more weight in the bitcoin world than elon musk ever does.. he is just an egotists who likes to hear the sounds of his own tweeting.. 

trog


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 28, 2021)

trog100 said:


> he is just an egotists who likes to hear the sounds of his own tweeting..


Looked in a mirror lately?
(don't be angry, you set yourself up for that one)


----------



## sepheronx (May 28, 2021)

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/nn37xb


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 28, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/nn37xb


Interesting, but it seems like tin-hat rubbish to me..


----------



## sepheronx (May 28, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Interesting, but it seems like tin-hat rubbish to me..


What's true is that BlackRock is now wanting in on Bitcoin.  I got stocks in them.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 28, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> What's true is that BlackRock is now wanting in on Bitcoin.  I got stocks in them.



And Kathy Wood wouldn't have a vested interest in bitcoin bubbles now would she?

....

.........

...............................

3 days ago :









						Report: Ark Invest Buys Nearly $20 Million Worth Of Bitcoin
					

Cathie Wood’s Ark Investment Management has reportedly purchased $19,872,939 worth of bitcoin.




					www.nasdaq.com
				




15 days ago:









						Musk Splits From Cathie Wood’s Ark on Bitcoin Environmental Cost
					

Two of the world’s most high-profile cryptocurrency advocates are suddenly at odds over the environmental impact of Bitcoin.




					www.bloomberg.com
				




5 Months ago:










7 Months ago:









						Bitcoin Could Hit $500,000, the Founder and CEO of Ark Invest Says
					

Bitcoin has been on a tear, rising nearly 160% this year and about 25% month-to-date—and that could be just the beginning, ARK Investment Management CEO Catherine Wood told Barron’s readers on Thursday.




					www.barrons.com


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 28, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> And Kathy Wood wouldn't have a vested interest in bitcoin bubbles now would she?
> 
> ....
> 
> ...


Cathie Wood seems to be missing the point about how every government on Earth is now seriously exploring or enacting restrictions and penalties concerning cryptocoin.. My guess is that the crash isn't over and will hit investment interests hard.


----------



## sepheronx (May 28, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Cathie Wood seems to be missing the point about how every government on Earth is now seriously exploring or enacting restrictions and penalties concerning cryptocoin.. My guess is that the crash isn't over and will hit investment interests hard.



Such as?

As far as I am aware, it is just China and even they have backed down (partially).  India backed down entirely as well.  Iran demands a stop to it just for summer cause of heat waves do cause power outages in those countries.

The rest are just looking for ways to tax people for it.



RandallFlagg said:


> And Kathy Wood wouldn't have a vested interest in bitcoin bubbles now would she?



Whats your point?  Everyone has interest in it.

The point is, Blackrock has interest in it.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 28, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Such as?
> 
> As far as I am aware, it is just China and even they have backed down (partially).  India backed down entirely as well.  Iran demands a stop to it just for summer cause of heat waves do cause power outages in those countries.
> 
> ...



If that is what you got from it, then you're not well versed in crypto.  

Blackrock revealed that it was dabbling in Bitcoin over 3 months ago.   However if you read more on what they have said about it, they believe that crypto in general has a future as a form of Gov't fiat.  This is not the same as any crypto being traded.

I think they are right and said as much, the future of crypto is under the control of central bank.  The technology, as usual, will be used to do the exact opposite of what its creators intended.  









						Understanding China's Digital Yuan
					

China recently finished a pilot of the digital yuan. What is it and how will it affect the Chinese economy?




					www.investopedia.com
				




"The Digital Currency Electronic Payment (DC/EP) is a digital version of the yuan – China's national currency. The DC/EP is backed by yuan deposits held by China's central bank and has been under development for slightly more than five years."


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 28, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> India backed down entirely as well.


No they didn't. Iran banned it for a few months and is rumbling about making it permanent. The US Congress is forming the legislation to greatly restrict the use of cryptocoin as a currency as well as officially impose capital gains taxes upon it's use and creation on a formal level.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 28, 2021)

What's crazy is to watch how BTC and the NASDAQ move together, lockstep in terms of direction and pattern, although in terms of % move BTC is far more volatile.   

Like this, BTC and NASDAQ hit a bottom on 1min chart at the same time, then after going up a bit went sideways and slightly negative, at the exact same time.  I have to think the same group of people who are buying NASDAQ are also predisposed to buy Bitcoin.


----------



## sepheronx (May 28, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> No they didn't. Iran banned it for a few months and is rumbling about making it permanent. The US Congress is forming the legislation to greatly restrict the use of cryptocoin as a currency as well as officially impose capital gains taxes upon it's use and creation on a formal level.


India didn't outright ban it.  Not yet at least.  Instead, they are pushing a bill.  Issue is, the Supreme court has shot down the RBI regarding how they apparently do not have the right to stop banks from doing transactions regarding crypto.  They are trying to do a one time sweep against all crypto but the backlash has been pretty big. Add to the pressure from the so called "farmers protests" and upcoming elections, we will see what will happen.  But the supreme court apparently struck down RBI once before (recently).  I would also find it quite hilarious if they do ban it, since MATIC is Indian and used for public verification of all covid tests.

Iran wont ban it outright.  It is actually one of their only methods of being able to purchase goods besides direct agreements between Rials and Yuans since they are barred from SWIFT.

I imagine the US will find a way to have some form of control over crypto.  Like their own official exchange or something along those lines.

And if anyone is interested, here is a short on Blackrock and Bitcoin futures:









						World’s Largest Asset Manager BlackRock Is Trading Bitcoin Futures
					

According to the latest SEC filings, the world’s largest asset manager is testing waters for bitcoin exposure through investment in bitcoin futures.




					www.forbes.com


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 28, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> India didn't outright ban it.  Not yet at least.  Instead, they are pushing a bill.  Issue is, the Supreme court has shot down the RBI regarding how they apparently do not have the right to stop banks from doing transactions regarding crypto.  They are trying to do a one time sweep against all crypto but the backlash has been pretty big. Add to the pressure from the so called "farmers protests" and upcoming elections, we will see what will happen.  But the supreme court apparently struck down RBI once before (recently).  I would also find it quite hilarious if they do ban it, since MATIC is Indian and used for public verification of all covid tests.
> 
> Iran wont ban it outright.  It is actually one of their only methods of being able to purchase goods besides direct agreements between Rials and Yuans since they are barred from SWIFT.
> 
> ...



That gives us a number for Blackrock's level of investment, it came out back in early Feb that they were tinkering.

$6.15M.  that is 6.83 X 10^-7 of Blackrock's capital.  This is like someone with $100,000 investing 7 cents.

Just giving some perspective here.  I would not be surprised if Blackrock owned some Beanie Babies too, just in case.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 28, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> India didn't outright ban it. Not yet at least.


The article I read(and of course I can't find it now) stated that the Indian government has already imposed strong restrictions of trade with and for cryptocoin and that they were working to ban it outright because of environmental concerns(which India takes VERY seriously) and fiscal stability reasons among others. This is a growing sentiment amongst the governments of the world.



sepheronx said:


> I imagine the US will find a way to have some form of control over crypto. Like their own official exchange or something along those lines.


The problem with that is there is no way to control cryptocoin directly, only transactions involving it.


----------



## sepheronx (May 28, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> The article I read(and of course I can't find it now) stated that the Indian government has already imposed strong restrictions of trade with and for cryptocoin and that they were working to ban it outright because of environmental concerns(which India takes VERY seriously) and fiscal stability reasons among others. This is a growing sentiment amongst the governments of the world.


They did but supreme Court slapped them down due to no law.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 28, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> They did but supreme Court slapped them down due to no law.


Interesting. Didn't know that.


----------



## sepheronx (May 28, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Interesting. Didn't know that.


They are apparently slapping at them and gov again cause people are just pissed overall about how they are handling this. And how Matic is apparently very important in India and their contribution to India overall during Covid.


----------



## R-T-B (May 28, 2021)

64K said:


> Looks like coins are taking a beating today. Is it still at a point where it's worth it to continue to mine?


Yes, here in PNW anyways.  It's worse off but not as bad as you'd think.


----------



## trog100 (May 28, 2021)

bitcoin and eth are still steadily going down.. no signs of panic selling yet but i recon we are about to see some..

as to the why of it.. nobody knows even those that pretend they do.. 

trog


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 29, 2021)

Bitcoin's chart looks really sick to me.  For the past day, when it got a bottom divergence usually signaling buyers are entering, it pops up for maybe 15m - 2hrs on extremely low volume (meaning, there really aren't any new buyers) and then resumes its decline with increasing volume.  I interpret this to mean not so much new buyers, just that there are fewer sellers lowering their ask for a bit. 

Then the price ticks up and the sellers at those levels are still there.   Like right now, I see a MA cross that should be bullish on MACD but it's happening with an RSI of 39 (selling pressure still high) and lowering volume, neither of which are good for a bottom.   Meanwhile despite the divergence and price / MA uptick, RSI immediately goes down.  I think this puppy is near done with this price range and will be moving on to something lower (like 30K) real soon.

It's like, after hours of divergence, that's all it's got is that little bitty up move and the volume immediately drops on the price rise :


----------



## trog100 (May 29, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Bitcoin's chart looks really sick to me.  For the past day, when it got a bottom divergence usually signaling buyers are entering, it pops up for maybe 15m - 2hrs on extremely low volume (meaning, there really aren't any new buyers) and then resumes its decline with increasing volume.  I interpret this to mean not so much new buyers, just that there are fewer sellers lowering their ask for a bit.
> 
> Then the price ticks up and the sellers at those levels are still there.   Like right now, I see a MA cross that should be bullish on MACD but it's happening with an RSI of 39 (selling pressure still high) and lowering volume, neither of which are good for a bottom.   Meanwhile despite the divergence and price / MA uptick, RSI immediately goes down.  I think this puppy is near done with this price range and will be moving on to something lower (like 30K) real soon.
> 
> ...


 yes a nice orderly decline.. not quite what we are used to seeing.. odd.. 

trog


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 30, 2021)

trog100 said:


> yes a nice orderly decline.. not quite what we are used to seeing.. odd..
> 
> trog



We'll soon see.  MACD at 30 min and hourly made bullish crosses.  It did get a pop, around $1000, but not really significant given how volatile this is.  Volume finally went up with price for an hour, but RSI is still below 50.   If this is a rally it's really weak.


----------



## R-T-B (May 30, 2021)

Can I just brag / pretend I know what I'm doing and say it's amazing my portfolio value actually went up during all of this?

Thanks for tipping me off to Helium, @PaulieG, lol.

Of course, I don't live in fantasy land.  I'm sure this downward trend will hit even the smallest of altcoins eventually.  Fortunately my crypto portfolio is very small and represents my "high risk" portion of my holdings.


----------



## trog100 (May 31, 2021)

well the expected panic selling with bitcoin diving below 30K never happened.. in fact nothing much happened.. 

trog


----------



## R0H1T (May 31, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> They did but *supreme Court slapped them down due to no law.*


Yeah no most exchanges operating out of India are not allowing (wallet) loading or withdrawal using INR due to RBI & the banks, effectively banning crypto. This has been the situation for at least a month now, if not more!


----------



## sepheronx (May 31, 2021)

R0H1T said:


> Yeah no most exchanges operating out of India are not allowing (wallet) loading or withdrawal using INR due to RBI & the banks, effectively banning crypto. This has been the situation for at least a month now, if not more!


Yeah. But hence why this has gone to supreme Court. Apparently not first time either.

Although, it doesn't mean the bill won't be signed either.  So crypto could be outright banned in India officially soon.









						Indian Crypto's Fate And Its Tryst With RBI, Supreme Court & Govt
					

As multiple banks continue to block crypto transactions, a Senior RBI official told Inc42 that unless there is legal clarity, the RBI is bound to take measures to stop large conversions of INR into cryptos,




					www.google.com
				




In other news:









						Report Shows Over $2B Worth Of Bitcoin Bought During The Dip
					

Large investors — or so-called whales — bought great quantities of Bitcoin (CRYPTO: BTC) when it briefly dipped at the $30,000 price level. What Happened: In a recent report by blockchain analytics company Chainalysis, the firm's Chief Economist Philip Gradwell explains that whales bought 77,000...




					finance.yahoo.com


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 31, 2021)

trog100 said:


> well the expected panic selling with bitcoin diving below 30K never happened.. in fact nothing much happened..
> 
> trog


Hold that thought...


sepheronx said:


> Yeah. But hence why this has gone to supreme Court. Apparently not first time either.
> 
> Although, it doesn't mean the bill won't be signed either.  So crypto could be outright banned in India officially soon.
> 
> ...


Yeah, every bank in India is blocking cryptocoin, China has already banned transactions with it. That's two of the world's largest economies banning all of it. Many of the richest nations of the world are following suit...

My guess? This is only a brief calm. Values have already dropped by more than 50% from the highest value levels and with the ban-hammer dropping all over the world, it's value likely will plummet again.


----------



## ThrashZone (May 31, 2021)

Hi,
Ban it or tax the hell out it would be just as effective.


----------



## sepheronx (May 31, 2021)

India is one of the worlds biggest potential markets, but in terms of crypto, it was still very far behind.  China was the big one.

There is still demand and push against the government in India.  Plus with even governments like that in Maharashtra using Polygon to monitor Covid 19.  All I am saying is, dont be excited over the potential fall of Crypto because it wont happen.  Essentially, Crypto isn't centralized so any country that does try to ban it, wont essentially lead to much.  Most of these exchange groups are not even local anyway (I use crypto.com and its based out of Switzerland).

I am thinking it is more to do with India looking a way to somehow gain control or create some form of regulation.  But even if some banks have barred the transaction deals between crypto and Rupees (this is still against the Supreme court rulings and it isnt said if all banks or some).  Many Indians are just using outside assets instead of local.

It will end up being a concept of how to tax it.  Eventually Indian banks will be allowed.  India is definitely not China.









						‘Not really in need of money, investments will be strategic’
					

Jaynti Kanani, Sandeep Nailwal and Anurag Arjun co-founded Polygon (formerly Matic), a blockchain scalability platform in 2017




					www.livemint.com


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 31, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> It will end up being a concept of how to tax it. Eventually Indian banks will be allowed. India is definitely not China.


That's one interpretation. You might be right. To me, it seems more like a prelude to completely banning it..



sepheronx said:


> Essentially, Crypto isn't centralized so any country that does try to ban it, wont essentially lead to much.


That couldn't be more wrong...


----------



## sepheronx (May 31, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> That's one interpretation. You might be right. To me, it seems more like a prelude to completely banning it..



I doubt it.  I actually seen first hand when they tried to ban old notes.  Eventually the old notes situation was resolved, but in the end, it didnt resolve the issue that lead to the banning of old notes to begin with - black market and funding terrorism.

I actually understand the government of India's idea of wanting to regulate it.  It is because of the issue of outside money coming into India for nefarious situations.  The old notes was entirely to do with Pakistan funding Kashmiri terrorist groups and or 5th columnists with fake old bank notes.  Crypto is harder to track thus banning it temporary till they come up with maybe a government ran or more robust way to monitoring it and taxing it, may be most ideal.

Here is what bloomberg thinks why banning it is bad idea in India(I tend to think Bloomberg is BS for most part but a broken clock can be right twice a day as they say):









						India Bitcoin Ban Would Be a Terrible Idea
					

The country’s previous attempts at currency controls impoverished Indians and prevented its companies from competing globally. This one won’t work any better.




					www.bloomberg.com
				




also another read:








						Indian government is rethinking crypto ban: The Economic Times
					

Local media has reported that a new committee will be formed to discuss cryptocurrency regulation in India.




					cointelegraph.com
				






lexluthermiester said:


> That couldn't be more wrong...


How so?  Crypto isn't centralized.  Its method if entirely decentralization.  Indians are still using crypto, just bypassing the main banks.  Since I know a few who do it specifically, I shall not say because I am not wanting to get anyone into trouble.  Just saying its possible.









						Cryptocurrency Explained With Pros and Cons for Investment
					

A cryptocurrency is a digital or virtual currency that uses cryptography and is difficult to counterfeit.




					www.investopedia.com
				




Here is a good read regarding India and Crypto currency:









						India's Millennials Embrace Digital Gold Despite Proposed Bitcoin Ban
					

A crypto ban is hovering above India, but the country's younger generations are still excited about bitcoin.




					www.coindesk.com


----------



## Outback Bronze (May 31, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> China has already banned transactions with it



You sure about that matey? :China has Not "Banned" Bitcoin Again, but Will Be Adopting Stricter Measures for Crypto-related Activity: Report (crowdfundinsider.com)



> _“We have been seeing a lot of rumors and misreporting this week due to the notice and what is happening, for example, that China has ‘banned’ crypto entirely (like in previous years of rumors that China banned Bitcoin). This is not the case. At this time, China is going to be more strict [when dealing with] exchanges and mining operations, but people can still use and hold cryptocurrencies in general, including Chinese nationals.”_


*Lennix Lai*, a Director at OKEx, has noted that China has “not outlawed the owning of digital currencies by its citizens.”

Lai also mentioned:



> _“People are allowed to mine bitcoins, they can transfer bitcoins to others and settle their trade in renminbi. There are a lot of bitcoin natives and believers in China.”_


----------



## Vya Domus (May 31, 2021)

The FUD continues, probably the desired entry point back in hasn't been reached yet for whoever leads this. Though I am curios, if even these misleading articles and news can't set off a new wave of sell offs, I wonder what will.


----------



## RandallFlagg (May 31, 2021)

trog100 said:


> well the expected panic selling with bitcoin diving below 30K never happened.. in fact nothing much happened..
> 
> trog



If this was the 'big rally' - going to 37K and never really approaching the 200DMA - then it's going to fall.    

For perspective, the horizontal pink line is roughly the 200DMA.  BTC bounced off it 3 times then went back to 33-34K and has since bounced to 37400ish.   It really has not made a run for the 200DMA since Thursday, and this bounce looks to me like a normal albeit weak counter-trend rally which is about over.


----------



## trog100 (May 31, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> The FUD continues, probably the desired entry point back in hasn't been reached yet for whoever leads this. Though I am curios, if even these misleading articles and news can't set off a new wave of sell offs, I wonder what will.



a large sell off with bitcoin taking a dive below 30K was predicated for this sunday past.. it didnt happen.. i take meaning from this even if some wont..

trog

ps.. the important thing here isnt some kind of super rally.. for people to start buying back in they need to be reasonably sure the price isnt going to suddenly tank much lower.. i think this past weekends events gave them this reassurance.. what i see now is a slow move back upwards.. people who expect an instant return are welcome to stay out.. 

such people are a f-cking nuisance anyway the market is better off without them..


----------



## Vya Domus (May 31, 2021)

BTC is especially weird in that a good chunk of the supply is essentially stuck forever in inaccessible wallets, this ensures somewhat of a safety chute since the total volume that could potentially be dumped at any given time is relatively small compared to the total supply. Other coins aren't that lucky.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 31, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> How so?


This conversation has already happened with other users. Cryptocoin itself maybe decenteralized, but cashing it out requires a financial institution of some kind in the transaction and that is what will be tracked, taxed and/or banned.


Outback Bronze said:


> You sure about that matey? :China has Not "Banned" Bitcoin Again, but Will Be Adopting Stricter Measures for Crypto-related Activity: Report (crowdfundinsider.com)


Owning it, sure that's allowed. Using it as a currency, that's jail time.

Make sure your source is a little more creditble before being a smart-ass about it. Crowdfundinsider.com likely has a vested interest in CCoin and wants to manipulate readers with careful word gibberjabber. Sources elsewhere clearly state that trading CCoin as a currency is outlawed for any bank or financial institution in China. This also makes "cashing out" a criminal act for individuals. That effectively bans it.

Please review;








						Homepage | Viewpoint
					

Front of mind Issues currently moving the markets Portfolio perspectives Investment strategies and asset allocation Forward thinking Trends shaping the future




					investors-corner.bnpparibas-am.com


----------



## R-T-B (May 31, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Make sure your source is a little more creditble before being a smart-ass about it.


Dare I ask what reputation level "investors-corner.bnpparibas-am.com" is?

Frankly, I trust the crypto source more than that.  And from what I have heard, using it as a currency/tradable/whatever is legal.  It's the exchanging process that gets difficult.


----------



## Outback Bronze (May 31, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> smart-ass about it



I'm just trying to inform you that its technically not 'Banned" completely which you seem to be implying to everyone.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 31, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> I'm just trying to inform you that its technically not 'Banned" completely which you seem to be implying to everyone.


I didn't say that. You need to go reread my comments and pay careful attention to the vocabulary and sentence structure used. Don't bother responding if all you're going to do is let your pride react.

And yes, China has, in essence, *banned the use of cryptocoin*.



R-T-B said:


> Dare I ask what reputation level "investors-corner.bnpparibas-am.com" is?
> 
> Frankly, I trust the crypto source more than that.  And from what I have heard, using it as a currency/tradable/whatever is legal.  It's the exchanging process that gets difficult.


I prefer to take seriously a source that has no vested interest in the story and can therefore be more objective.


----------



## LFaWolf (May 31, 2021)

Can we trust CNBC? https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/18/chi...nstitutions-from-cryptocurrency-business.html


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 31, 2021)

LFaWolf said:


> Can we trust CNBC? https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/18/chi...nstitutions-from-cryptocurrency-business.html


Seems spot on. They seem to be going along with what is actually coming out of China.


----------



## sepheronx (May 31, 2021)

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/np4tfx





__





						Reserve Bank of India - Index To RBI Circulars
					





					m.rbi.org.in
				




So there never was a ban in the first place and banks were going against the law.

When will I get my apology?


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 31, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> India just unbanned Bitcoin (today) from Bitcoin


Reddit is not a credible source of financial information on any level... Not worth reading..



sepheronx said:


> Reserve Bank of India - Index To RBI Circulars


...that however might be. Interesting. Pay careful attention to paragraph 2...



sepheronx said:


> When will I get my apology?


When a snowball can be mounted on a statue of Jello on the surface of Venus.


----------



## sepheronx (May 31, 2021)

Still not banned.

So I will accept your apology.

Btw, reddit is a source of it provides the source, which in this case, is the official source of the Indian central bank.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 31, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> So I will accept your apology.


Dream on...


----------



## sepheronx (May 31, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Dream on...


Apology accepted.  See, it wasn't so hard, was it?


----------



## trog100 (Jun 2, 2021)

well.. bitcoin is at 38K and eth at 2800... i think a bottom was established a few days back and the whales and institutions will start (or have started)  buying back in..

trog


----------



## RandallFlagg (Jun 2, 2021)

trog100 said:


> well.. bitcoin is at 38K and eth at 2800... i think a bottom was established a few days back and the whales and institutions will start (or have started)  buying back in..
> 
> trog



Highly unlikely.  BTC hasn't done anything bullish yet, it's merely a technical bounce.  It hasn't even touched the bottom of the 200DMA yet.   Here's the daily chart, for perspective.


----------



## Zach_01 (Jun 2, 2021)

We have seen this before back at 2017/18.
I'm not saying that it would be the same. Just that there is a possibility to repeat alike behaviour.
It could potentially fall (gradually and with ups and downs) even under 20,000$ the next couple of months, unless something changes drastically.

I do believe though that at some point it would be back up, maybe even a new ATH. Not just yet...


Last 14 months




2017-2018
Lot's of breaking points (price wise) but none sustained long term


Again I'm not saying that this is exactly the case. It could take a turn any time. But so far its not.


----------



## Outback Bronze (Jun 2, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> We have seen this before back at 2017/18



From what I've been reading, most analysts are comparing it to the 2013 run.

Bitcoin price bull run ‘starting to look like 2013’ after record red monthly candle (cointelegraph.com)

Bitcoin's price drop seems to a mid-break in 2021 bull-run - TechStory

Bitcoin (BTC) Peak: Wyckoff Distribution, 2013 Bull Run and Pi Cycle (beincrypto.com)

Bitcoin accumulation uptrend can create a 2013-style BTC price ‘double pump’ (cointelegraph.com)

Time will tell though. Its looking better atm from what I've been seeing as its been getting higher lows but yeah still not very confident of a good run up for obvious reasons.


----------



## trog100 (Jun 2, 2021)

well i recon we had a bottom and i now see a steady upward trend.. i dont see a rally just a steady upwards trend.. until the next dip that is but that wont go down where it is now.. he he..

trog


----------



## Outback Bronze (Jun 2, 2021)

trog100 said:


> well i recon we had a bottom



Yes possibly as I was watching the bears try very hard but I don't think they are out of the woods just yet.

Also been reading that 20K could be on the cards because of a head and shoulders pattern so no confidence in me just yet.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 2, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Do you realize you are like the ultimate contrarian indicator?   Every time you post something about BTC or ETH the crypto market tanks within a few hours.  I should chart that.



Ok, lets test this out!

Almost anything you can think of is on the cards. It could tank to zero or spike to 100k. But IMO it's going down...way, way down. Zero % chance it goes up.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Jun 2, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Ok, lets test this out!
> 
> Almost anything you can think of is on the cards. It could tank to zero or spike to 100k. But IMO it's going down...way, way down. Zero % chance it goes up.



I told you, every time you post BTC plunges within a day hours.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 2, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> I told you, every time you post BTC plunges within a day hours.


You said he was the ultimate "contrarian indicator" IIRC.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Jun 2, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> We have seen this before back at 2017/18.
> I'm not saying that it would be the same. Just that there is a possibility to repeat alike behaviour.
> It could potentially fall (gradually and with ups and downs) even under 20,000$ the next couple of months, unless something changes drastically.
> 
> ...



Markets tend to be fractal, but the interpretation is up to the beholder.

If we assume this time looks like last time (unlikely due to rule of alternation, this time is never like last time), this would be my interpretation.

Now is on the left and right, the middle is 2017-2018, the red lines are to corresponding price points.  This would mean BTC has one more big plunge with a similar bounce, then a slower decline followed by a long time (a year) of sideways movement before it rises again (if it does) :







R-T-B said:


> You said he was the ultimate "contrarian indicator" IIRC.



It's only been 53 minutes, but I get it, I just said everytime he posts BTC goes down.  I think I can actually prove that as I was noticing it multiple times,  but perhaps there's another dimension regarding content of post.

Anyway, it's 11:36BST and he posted ~1 hr ago, 10:30ish is circled.  BTC already lost about $300.






Welp, $450 and counting :


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 2, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> It's only been 53 minutes, but I get it, I just said everytime he posts BTC goes down. I think I can actually prove that as I was noticing it multiple times, but perhaps there's another dimension regarding content of post.


I don't know, I just find the idea it all hinges on him funny either way.

#undercoverwhale?


----------



## RandallFlagg (Jun 2, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I don't know, I just find the idea it all hinges on him funny either way.
> 
> #undercoverwhale?



Could be.  Maybe when he decides to sell he makes the rounds on social media and talks it up?  Seems like this would be a low impact place but TPU does have millions of viewers, who knows.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 2, 2021)

Hey, it works for Elon...

Seriously just kidding around but you never know, lol...


----------



## trog100 (Jun 3, 2021)

whales wait until the dumber coiners and the youtube influencers think its about to go up .. in a sense these people become self forefilling  prophesies.. then they kick it down.. 

smart money buys at the bottom dumb money buys on the way up.. being as the entire market slavishly follows the price of bitcoin all this is very easy to do...

ether way i recon we found the bitcoin bottom and now the only way is up.. he he..

with a  few whale induced manipulations along the way.. 

trog


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 3, 2021)

trog100 said:


> whales wait until the dumber coiners and the youtube influencers think its about to go up .. in a sense these people become self forefilling  prophesies.. then they kick it down..
> 
> smart money buys at the bottom dumb money buys on the way up.. being as the entire market slavishly follows the price of bitcoin all this is very easy to do...
> 
> ...


And this is why cryptocoin needs heavy-handed regulations.


----------



## R0H1T (Jun 3, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> So there never was a ban in the first place and banks were going against the law.


They weren't going against the law, basically RBI & the govt were beating around the bush ~ they wanted to ban Crypto & then apparently they didn't! Banks can't do flip flops like that.
Didn't I say multiple times that if you can make money off of it (tax or other means) this will not be banned? Guess what that's true everywhere in the world, including China


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 3, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> And this is why cryptocoin needs heavy-handed regulations.


I mean the same could be said of the stock market.  Have you seen the GME shenanigans?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 3, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I mean the same could be said of the stock market.  Have you seen the GME shenanigans?


Fair point. However, the stock market is already heavily regulated. Cryptocoin needs join those ranks if not to be banned.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 3, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Fair point. However, the stock market is already heavily regulated. Cryptocoin needs join those ranks if not to be banned.


I know that, my point was in some ways even the stock market regulations are useless though because of no or selective enforcement.  Such things need to be globally applied or not at all.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 3, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I mean the same could be said of the stock market.  Have you seen the GME shenanigans?



And many other stocks and it is awesome, in fact I think it is one of the most amazing achievements the internet has facilitated. It's a collective effort that takes the masses and pits them against multi-billion dollar investment firms. It brings to light exactly what these investment firms have been doing for decades, except now instead of 1 company with 200 Billion it's 10m+ individuals with $2k each and look at how they/we can control the market.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 3, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> And many other stocks and it is awesome, in fact I think it is one of the most amazing achievements the internet has facilitated. It's a collective effort that takes the masses and pits them against multi-billion dollar investment firms. It brings to light exactly what these investment firms have been doing for decades, except now instead of 1 company with 200 Billion it's 10m+ individuals with $2k each and look at how they/we can control the market.


I agree, I was speaking more to the Robinhood shutdown of trading and attempts by big money to shut the whole thing down.  There were a lot of senators on both sides of the isle crying foul on that but nothing came of it in the end.

It spoke to the extreme hypocrisy and willingness to cheat to maintain the status quo that is present in the market.

To me it highlights one area in which crypto could help fix things.


----------



## trog100 (Jun 3, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> And this is why cryptocoin needs heavy-handed regulations.



all markets are manipulated.. buyer beware.. plus of course you dont want it regulated you want it strangled to death.. he he

anyways bitcoin is very close to 39K and eth is close to 2900.. pretty much as i predicted.. it will hover around 40/42K for a while with some small dips but it wont go down far..

trog

ps.. just a comment about market manipulations.. the gold market is manipulated its said there are over 100 paper claims for each ounce of real gold.. the same can be said for the silver market..

the US stock markets are manipulated by the US government with money printing.. this goes to the rich who use it to buy back their own shares and artificially inflate the price..

the whole lot is crooked.. those who just pick out crypto manipulations are doing so for their own reasons..


----------



## Vya Domus (Jun 3, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I mean the same could be said of the stock market.  Have you seen the GME shenanigans?


Crypto exchanges regularly halt withdrawals/trading on certain coins for "maintenance" when it just so happens that there is a lot of volume being moved or ATHs and crashes happen.

Everything is manipulated, free markets are a pipedream.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Jun 3, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I know that, my point was in some ways even the stock market regulations are useless though because of no or selective enforcement.  Such things need to be globally applied or not at all.



It's not just the Robinhood meme stocks.  I got very bearish on the markets a bit over a month ago.  Simple reason, trying to find something worthwhile to buy, couldn't find hardly anything.  Even funds - I'm the type that looks at what funds hold - way too many holding Apple and Tesla or other greatly over valued stocks.  Tesla for example, was trading at a PE multiple of 1000.   At that multiple, there's really no difference between Tesla stock, and Bitcoin. 

Now I get that high growth companies can trade at high PE multiples, but Tesla is not a newborn, and 1000 was just stupid.  Neither is Apple and it was at a PE of like 80.   Keep in mind the S&P PE is over 20, the historical mean is 15.5, and bear market lows are 5.  Yes earnings can go up, but they can also go down.  Apple is nothing like Tesla in the sense that they make big $$, have little debt, and lots of cash.   Nevertheless, the stock is priced at a premium.   

A lot of these stocks in my estimation, can lose 50% of their value in a heartbeat.   Even safe stalwarts like JNJ and KO trading at 30X earnings - earnings unlikely to grow much if at all post covid.  

The signs are all there.  All of this crap is nothing but bubbles blown up by easy money from central banks.  Every asset class from gold to oil to lumber to housing to stocks to crypto, all bubbled up.

And now, this is small money, but it's just the beginning of what must happen if our currency is to survive.   









						The Federal Reserve Is Going to Sell Its Corporate Bond Portfolio. What It Means.
					

While the central bank's $13.8 billion portfolio of bonds and ETFs is relatively small, it does mark a shift away from pandemic relief efforts.




					finance.yahoo.com


----------



## LFaWolf (Jun 3, 2021)

AAPL PE is 28 at the moment, not even close to 80. 28 is low for a cash cow like AAPL, especially with an Apple Car coming in the next few years. I don't  know why you would think AAPL will lose 50% of its value in a few years.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Jun 4, 2021)

LFaWolf said:


> AAPL PE is 28 at the moment, not even close to 80. 28 is low for a cash cow like AAPL, especially with an Apple Car coming in the next few years. I don't  know why you would think AAPL will lose 50% of its value in a few years.



Yes, they beat earnings, now fwd earnings estimates show ~28.   It is overvalued by almost any measure, but people call it a deal...

I've heard this stuff before, back in 1999 and 2000, and people kept repeating it until ~2001.    Then they got silent.  A couple years later they started saying it was obvious and anyone who looked would have known...  

It's not different this time.  This is bubble shit.  In 2-3 years people will be saying it was obvious.  

Because you know what?  It is obvious.  It's herd mentality though, that's why we get bubbles in the first place.


----------



## LFaWolf (Jun 4, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Yes, they beat earnings, now fwd earnings estimates show ~28.   It is overvalued by almost any measure, but people call it a deal...


I am curious, by what measure do you say a 28 PE ratios is overvalued?


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 4, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Crypto exchanges regularly halt withdrawals/trading on certain coins for "maintenance"


But you can still send the currency during that, just can't convert it to fiat.

Which makes it sound like a fiat problem.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Jun 4, 2021)

LFaWolf said:


> I am curious, by what measure do you say a 28 PE ratios is overvalued?



History.  28 PE requires a 10% sustained growth rate.   The entire NASDAQ 100 shows a PE of 27.3 right now.  

Case-Shiller has charts of 20 year annualized returns when someone bought into stocks at different market "CAPE"'s, for different periods and different markets.   I have seen similar historical charts for normal PE.  

Bottom line though, for  people buying into a market with a PE greater than 20 they are going to be lucky to get zero returns over then next 15-20 years.   CAPE is slightly different but it is the same concept.

The case-shiller CAPE right now is 36.9

Here's what you can expect - looks like negative 1% annualized for the next 15 years.  That's if you don't panic and sell at the bottom :


----------



## LFaWolf (Jun 4, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> History.  28 PE requires a 10% sustained growth rate.   The entire NASDAQ 100 shows a PE of 27.3 right now.
> 
> Case-Shiller has charts of 20 year annualized returns when someone bought into stocks at different market "CAPE"'s, for different periods and different markets.   I have seen similar historical charts for normal PE.
> 
> Bottom line though, for  people buying into a market with a PE greater than 20 they are going to be lucky to get zero returns over then next 15-20 years.   CAPE is slightly different but it is the same concept.


Probably getting off-toipc now but from what I can tell, a 10% growth for AAPL is still within reached (and given its size, quite amazing) - https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AAPL/apple/revenue

A bit overpriced, but better than the general market. Still trying to figure out a good growth stock to buy that is not way overvalued.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Jun 4, 2021)

LFaWolf said:


> Probably getting off-toipc now but from what I can tell, a 10% growth for AAPL is still within reached (and given its size, quite amazing) - https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AAPL/apple/revenue
> 
> A bit overpriced, but better than the general market. Still trying to figure out a good growth stock to buy that is not way overvalued.
> 
> View attachment 202725



Look in that 5y column.  The only reason AAPL has a 28 PE right now and not 60+ is because they had a bang up year last year, everyone sitting at home buying new iphones and ipads, that's in the YoY column.  If you look at normal years, AAPL grows but at something more like 5%.   Think about 5% with 4.2% inflation.  They could probably, IMO, justify a low 20s PE.   But that means the stock needs to be more like $90 not $125.

But I'm not into growth stocks.  I like CEFs with a good track record and consistent long term management,  and diversified funds with conservative holdings.  Right now, there aren't many of those around.  

I think there will be plenty of cheap stocks in 1-2 years.  Plenty.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 4, 2021)

LFaWolf said:


> AAPL PE is 28 at the moment, not even close to 80. 28 is low for a cash cow like AAPL, especially with an Apple Car coming in the next few years. I don't  know why you would think AAPL will lose 50% of its value in a few years.


I like mastercard and Visa. I am really big on those 2. Got in from the IPO.



RandallFlagg said:


> Look in that 5y column.  The only reason AAPL has a 28 PE right now and not 60+ is because they had a bang up year last year, everyone sitting at home buying new iphones and ipads, that's in the YoY column.  If you look at normal years, AAPL grows but at something more like 5%.   Think about 5% with 4.2% inflation.  They could probably, IMO, justify a low 20s PE.   But that means the stock needs to be more like $90 not $125.
> 
> But I'm not into growth stocks.  I like CEFs with a good track record and consistent long term management,  and diversified funds with conservative holdings.  Right now, there aren't many of those around.
> 
> I think there will be plenty of cheap stocks in 1-2 years.  Plenty.


Look into mastercard and Visa, MA and V.
People are using less and less paper money and more plastic. Its not a growth stock, its a long term hold stocks.


----------



## LFaWolf (Jun 4, 2021)

yotano211 said:


> I like mastercard and Visa. I am really big on those 2. Got in from the IPO.


Ha, me too! Got both during the IPO. I bet the house on V during IPO. It was down during the financial crisis, but has rebounded nicely since. At the moment I am too heavy on these two already. Need to diversify some more.


----------



## yotano211 (Jun 4, 2021)

LFaWolf said:


> Ha, me too! Got both during the IPO. I bet the house on V during IPO. It was down during the financial crisis, but has rebounded nicely since. At the moment I am too heavy on these two already. Need to diversify some more.


Same here, my portfolio is about 35% into these 2. Kinda high.

What other stocks are you liking right now or for the long term future.


----------



## LFaWolf (Jun 4, 2021)

yotano211 said:


> Same here, my portfolio is about 35% into these 2. Kinda high.
> 
> What other stocks are you liking right now or for the long term future.


Took it to PM so we don’t derail the thread.


----------



## Outback Bronze (Jun 6, 2021)

Looks like the first country to make BTC legal tender might be happening:

El Salvador looks to become the world’s first country to adopt bitcoin as legal tender (msn.com)


----------



## Chomiq (Jun 6, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> Looks like the first country to make BTC legal tender might be happening:
> 
> El Salvador looks to become the world’s first country to adopt bitcoin as legal tender (msn.com)


That's their president:



'nuff said.


----------



## 64K (Jun 6, 2021)

You will know when the crash is about to happen. When it does then almost everyone will be talking crypto up. Later the panic selling will ensue.


----------



## trog100 (Jun 6, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> That's their president:
> View attachment 202944
> 'nuff said.



 at least he aint suffering from senile dementia.. he he he..

but the coiners will see good things and the no coiners will see bad things.. 

trog


----------



## freeagent (Jun 6, 2021)

Coiners..

And no coiners 

lovely jubbly


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 8, 2021)

trog100 said:


> at least he aint suffering from senile dementia.. he he he..
> 
> but the coiners will see good things and the no coiners will see bad things..
> 
> trog


I always get confused if that's a jab at Biden or Trump, because it neatly applies to both of them (albeit one more than the other.  I won't say which).


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 8, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I always get confused if that's a jab at Biden or Trump, because it neatly applies to both of them (albeit one more than the other.  I won't say which).


Both... 

But we're dabbling into the accursed and banned topic of politics... We must refrain...


----------



## RandallFlagg (Jun 8, 2021)

Bitcoin broke down in the last 24 hours.  It is continuing on its downward loss of momentum and RSI is solidly below 50 and again declining on daily chart never having broken its downward trend.   The 200DMA has held..

FWIW here's my prediction.  The most likely target on the down side is around 21K.  Should happen over the next few months, but I think this will be a bottoming pattern which is long-winded.  BTC is already losing its downward momentum compared to the previous decline, but the momentum is too negative (below the 50 line in RSI) for it to hold at the current price level, the recent rally attempt failed to give it any meaningful upwards push.   

Once it gets into that 19-22K range, the bounce up should be significant.  I think a lot of people are waiting there to buy, at least I get that impression and the chart shows that the next decline would be equal to the previous decline in that range - meaning it is a common point for a bottom.  Bounce up will be quick and violent.  I would not be suprised to see BTC at 40 or 50K again by this fall.   That could be one big sucker rally, we'll see.  

I think this chart is going to be spot on though.


----------



## trog100 (Jun 8, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Bitcoin broke down in the last 24 hours.  It is continuing on its downward loss of momentum and RSI is solidly below 50 and again declining on daily chart never having broken its downward trend.   The 200DMA has held..
> 
> FWIW here's my prediction.  The most likely target on the down side is around 21K.  Should happen over the next few months, but I think this will be a bottoming pattern which is long-winded.  BTC is already losing its downward momentum compared to the previous decline, but the momentum is too negative (below the 50 line in RSI) for it to hold at the current price level, the recent rally attempt failed to give it any meaningful upwards push.
> 
> ...




yes it could be setting up for a dive down below 30K maybe down to 25K or so..

but if it dosnt it does strongly suggest that 32K -ish really is a bottom..

whats driving it i havnt a clue and i doubt anyone else has.. we are talking about the entire crypto market here not just bitcoin.. a lot of money moving about..




R-T-B said:


> I always get confused if that's a jab at Biden or Trump, because it neatly applies to both of them (albeit one more than the other.  I won't say which).



it was said (jokingly) in reply to a dig at a much younger looking el salvador president.. he he

lets keep things in the proper context.. 

trog

ps.. i recon the small drop from 35K-ish  to 32K- ish was caused by some people selling just in case... i dont think the big drop is gonna happen..


----------



## Chomiq (Jun 8, 2021)

In other news:








						Colonial Pipeline: US recovers most of ransom, justice department says
					

The US Department of Justice says it has seized most of the $4.4m (£3.1m) paid to cyber-criminals.



					www.bbc.com
				



FBI "somehow" obtained the private key and recovered 85% of ransom paid in BTC.


----------



## trog100 (Jun 8, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> In other news:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



its also said they have dumped this recovered coin into the market hence causing the recent dip.. 

these kind of ransom attacks are going to get elevated up to the same levels as terrorism as well.. 

trog


----------



## RandallFlagg (Jun 8, 2021)

trog100 said:


> its also said they have dumped this recovered coin into the market hence causing the recent dip..
> 
> these kind of ransom attacks are going to get elevated up to the same levels as terrorism as well..
> 
> trog



I'm pretty sure it already is classified as terrorism... 'cyberterrorists'.  If these people were found they would likely would die in prison.

More on topic though, most people don't know anything about Bitcoin or Crypto.  This type of event will introduce them to it as a form of payment used by blackmailers, terrorists, and criminal organizations.   Public sentiment which is largely neutral / don't care, will almost certainly become negative.  One or two more events like that and you can kiss crypto bye-bye.  They will simply make it illegal.  

And to that point, I noticed last week Bitcoin and the NASDAQ - which had been moving in lockstep in price action albeit not in magnitude of moves - decoupled.  They are going their own way for almost a week now.  Before, I think the type of people who bought into NASDAQ tech were apt to buy into Bitcoin - enough of them to make the markets move together.   That's changed.


----------



## Papahyooie (Jun 8, 2021)

Lol @ making crypto "illegal" causing it to go bye bye. 

Crypto was built for the express purpose of being "illegal." If countries pass laws to make it illegal, that will be far from enough to kill it. 

I mean that from a philosophical standpoint. Meaning, it wasn't built to be "bad" it was built to be "illegal." Those are two different things, so don't take what I said to mean that it was built for facilitating "bad" or "evil" things. But simply "illegal" things.


----------



## trog100 (Jun 8, 2021)

Papahyooie said:


> Lol @ making crypto "illegal" causing it to go bye bye.
> 
> Crypto was built for the express purpose of being "illegal." If countries pass laws to make it illegal, that will be far from enough to kill it.
> 
> I mean that from a philosophical standpoint. Meaning, it wasn't built to be "bad" it was built to be "illegal." Those are two different things, so don't take what I said to mean that it was built for facilitating "bad" or "evil" things. But simply "illegal" things.



it was built to be outside the conventional financial systems.. outside of government control.. a kind of universally usable money not subject to bank or government vagaries..

its pretty understandable why such entities dont like it.. he he..

trog


----------



## skizzo (Jun 8, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> I'm pretty sure it already is classified as terrorism... 'cyberterrorists'.  If these people were found they would likely would die in prison.



one can only hope.....the big problem is they are all cowards hiding behind anonymity which seems to be working in their favor so far unfortunately for us normal people impacted by their nefarious actions. absolutely are cyberterrorists


----------



## Chomiq (Jun 8, 2021)

skizzo said:


> one can only hope.....the big problem is they are all cowards hiding behind anonymity which seems to be working in their favor so far unfortunately for us normal people impacted by their nefarious actions. absolutely are cyberterrorists











						Exclusive: U.S. to give ransomware hacks similar priority as terrorism
					

The U.S. Department of Justice is elevating investigations of ransomware attacks to a similar priority as terrorism in the wake of the Colonial Pipeline hack and mounting damage caused by cyber criminals, a senior department official told Reuters.




					www.reuters.com


----------



## 64K (Jun 8, 2021)

I admit that I don't know anything much about crypto but it seems like governments could make it illegal to buy anything with crypto and shut down the websites that allow buying and selling crypto. Wouldn't that effectively shut down crypto as an alternate currency except on black markets? Would the average person even want to risk dealing with the black markets?

Bitcoin and Ethereum continue to fall and the Fear and Greed Index is showing it as 13 right now which means extreme fear.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 8, 2021)

64K said:


> I admit that I don't know anything much about crypto but it seems like governments could make it illegal to buy anything with crypto and shut down the websites that allow buying and selling crypto. Wouldn't that effectively shut down crypto as an alternate currency except on black markets? Would the average person even want to risk dealing with the black markets?
> 
> Bitcoin and Ethereum continue to fall and the Fear and Greed Index is showing it as 13 right now which means extreme fear.
> 
> View attachment 203191



It's illegal to buy/sell stuff with gold but it still has value...and not just for electronics. As a value store.


----------



## 64K (Jun 8, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> It's illegal to buy/sell stuff with gold but it still has value...and not just for electronics. As a value store.



At one time it was illegal to even own gold bullion but what I'm getting at is if the government made it illegal to own gold bullion again then you couldn't just go to a gold trader and convert it to cash. 

You could secretly own crypto but what could you do with it? If you couldn't convert it to cash or buy things with it then what good would it be?


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 8, 2021)

Well they can't take the blockchain down and they can't get private wallets. So other than exchanges on US soil what recourse do they have?


----------



## Outback Bronze (Jun 8, 2021)

64K said:


> governments could make it illegal



Not if they Tax it which is what has happened here down under. Just more revenue for them which should be a win for governments in my book.


----------



## trog100 (Jun 9, 2021)

well bitcoin seems to be holding just above 32K with no big dump below yet.. just like the last time.. i recon i was right about 32K being the bottom..

if i was it will start to go up again from now on in.. he he

trog


----------



## Papahyooie (Jun 9, 2021)

If they made it "illegal", then sure it wouldn't have the mainstream appeal that it does now. But there are plenty of people who are ideologically inclined to participate in such activities, even if they aren't doing "bad" things. There are entire towns in America engaged in "black market" activities that include turnips and textile, instead of drugs and guns. BTC is tailor made for these things, but when it comes to freedom, you have to take the bad with the good. 

But @Outback Bronze hit the nail on the head... they won't make it illegal. It's a minor tax revenue stream now (at least in America).


----------



## dorsetknob (Jun 9, 2021)

Papahyooie said:


> There are entire towns in America engaged in "black market" activities that include turnips and textile,


Is this Town Called Baldrickville


----------



## Papahyooie (Jun 9, 2021)

dorsetknob said:


> Is this Town Called Baldrickville


Likely, lol. 

But for real, there is an entire political philosophy based around the idea that the black and gray markets are the only moral markets. And veggies bought and sold outside the eye of the tax man are just as "black market" as the devil's lettuce is. 









						Agorism - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 9, 2021)

For those who were claiming that cryptocoin can't be "tracked" and that the government can't touch it...








						Crypto Markets Crash Again After DOJ Seizes $2.3 Million Bitcoin Ransom
					

The market plunged more than 11% Tuesday morning.




					www.forbes.com
				



..you were saying?


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 9, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> For those who were claiming that cryptocoin can't be "tracked" and that the government can't touch it...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah that seems like total BS. Hackers that were skilled enough to perform the hack, demand ransom, and then just let it sit in COINBASE on US soil.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 9, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> For those who were claiming that cryptocoin can't be "tracked" and that the government can't touch it...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No one with sense ever claimed it couldn't be tracked.



ZenZimZaliben said:


> Yeah that seems like total BS. Hackers that were skilled enough to perform the hack, demand ransom, and then just let it sit in COINBASE on US soil.


That is rather amazingly pathetic.


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (Jun 9, 2021)

Papahyooie said:


> Likely, lol.
> 
> But for real, there is an entire political philosophy based around the idea that the black and gray markets are the only moral markets. And veggies bought and sold outside the eye of the tax man are just as "black market" as the devil's lettuce is.
> 
> ...



(The below is not directed specifically toward you, but your post makes a decent reference point.)

Let's be careful not conflate "legality" with "morality".  They are VERY different, almost entirely separate concepts, even if related by the nature of laws.

Something else useful to remember:  in a free state, any action is legal until it is declared illegal by statute, precedent or case law (gigantic oversimplification alert ahoy.  Also "free" as opposed to "totalitarian".  Not trying to start a debate over whether Nation X is a free state or not).


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 9, 2021)

Anyone can track any wallet, that is the beauty of the blockchain - Complete Transparency. But the holder (actual person/entity) of that is anonymous, unless they ID themselves in an exchange on us soil. Which I have a really, really hard time believing.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 9, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Yeah that seems like total BS. Hackers that were skilled enough to perform the hack, demand ransom, and then just let it sit in COINBASE on US soil.


BS why? Perhaps the perps thought, falsely, that the transaction and coin couldn't be traced and tracked.... Yup...


ZenZimZaliben said:


> But the holder (actual person/entity) of that is anonymous, unless they ID themselves in an exchange on us soil.


Incorrect.



R-T-B said:


> No one with sense ever claimed it couldn't be tracked.


Plenty of people have said it. Even some here in this thread... See above...


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 9, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> BS why? Perhaps the perps thought, falsely, that the transaction and coin couldn't be traced and tracked.... Yup...


They provided their literal state ID to setup the coinbase.  No way they were that stupid, IMO.


lexluthermiester said:


> Incorrect.


Correct, actually.  They ID'd themselves at the exchange (supposedly).  See above.

Bitcoin is anonymous (until you ID yourself) but totally tracable.  And yes there has been massive confusion on that point.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 9, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Incorrect.



Ok, how am I incorrect?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 9, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Bitcoin is anonymous (until you ID yourself) but totally tracable.


News flash, if something is traceable/trackable, the user of that something can be identified. Always! There is no hiding on today's internet.



ZenZimZaliben said:


> Ok, how am I incorrect?


See above..


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 9, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> News flash, if something is traceable/trackable, the user of that something can be identified.


Not if you trace it to a non-named addresss, no.  That's not how this works.

Example: if you trace it to an address that was funded by a street transaction, good luck.


----------



## Papahyooie (Jun 9, 2021)

80-watt Hamster said:


> (The below is not directed specifically toward you, but your post makes a decent reference point.)
> 
> Let's be careful not conflate "legality" with "morality".  They are VERY different, almost entirely separate concepts, even if related by the nature of laws.
> 
> Something else useful to remember:  in a free state, any action is legal until it is declared illegal by statute, precedent or case law (gigantic oversimplification alert ahoy.  Also "free" as opposed to "totalitarian".  Not trying to start a debate over whether Nation X is a free state or not).



Agree completely. That was the point I was trying to make. Crypto was designed to be "illegal" or at least "alegal" as in legally agnostic. I was, like you, trying to separate the usual conflation of legality and morality. Crypto is just as valid for use for buying turnips as it for buying drugs and weapons, and indeed there are places where it is used for just that. 

That all of course was directed at those who want to say that those using crypto for "illegal" purposes are necessarily using them for "evil" or "bad" purposes. That simply isn't the case.



lexluthermiester said:


> News flash, if something is traceable/trackable, the user of that something can be identified. Always! There is no hiding on today's internet.
> 
> 
> See above..


No. The transactions are traceable and trackable. If no identifying information is provided at either end of the chain, then no, it cannot be tied to a human. That's just not how this works.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 9, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Not if you trace it to a non-named addresss, no.  That's not how this works.
> 
> Example: if you trace it to an address that was funded by a street transaction, good luck.


I'm talking about IP addresses. Even if you use TOR or another IP jacketing scheme, you can be traced. Any government that wants someone enough WILL find them.



Papahyooie said:


> No. The transactions are traceable and trackable. If no identifying information is provided at either end of the chain, then no, it cannot be tied to a human. That's just not how this works.


That is an illusion.


----------



## Papahyooie (Jun 9, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I'm talking about IP addresses. Even if you use TOR or another IP jacketing scheme, you can be traced. Any government that wants someone enough WILL find them.
> 
> 
> That is an illusion.


Blockchain transactions do not require IP addresses at all.

Edit: no, it's not an illusion


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 9, 2021)

Papahyooie said:


> Blockchain transactions do not require IP addresses at all.
> 
> Edit: no, it's not an illusion


Ok, keep telling yourself that. If you connect to the internet, you can be tracked. It IS that simple...


----------



## Papahyooie (Jun 9, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ok, keep telling yourself that. If you connect to the internet, you can be tracked. It IS that simple...


What if I told you I can obtain crypto and make a crypto transaction without ever having an internet connection myself? 

(spoiler, I can.)


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 9, 2021)

We are arguing technicalities vs practicalities.

Yes, if the government wants you bad enough, there are tools to get you.

No, the tech here needn't absolutely be one of those tools.


----------



## trog100 (Jun 9, 2021)

lex is basally a bitcoin troll.. he has his own reasons for not liking it or crypto in general.. 

its impossible to convince those who dont want convincing.. the debate makes painful and time wasting reading.. he is entitled to his own oppinion.. its the people who keep trying to change it that are at fault.. 

trog


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 9, 2021)

trog100 said:


> lex is basally a bitcoin troll.. he has his own reasons for not liking it or crypto in general..
> 
> its impossible to convince those who dont want convincing.. the debate makes painful and time wasting reading.. he is entitled to his own oppinion.. its the people who keep trying to change it that are at fault..
> 
> trog



Willful ignorance and refusing to accept reality when presented with indisputable facts is not an opinion. It is a Troll, sorta like flat earthers.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Jun 9, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Not if you trace it to a non-named addresss, no.  That's not how this works.
> 
> Example: if you trace it to an address that was funded by a street transaction, good luck.





ZenZimZaliben said:


> Willful ignorance and refusing to accept reality when presented with indisputable facts is not an opinion. It is a Troll, sorta like flat earthers.



Honestly guys, how much do you think you know?  You sound like kids to me.  You think it's safe because you got into some self-reinforcing feedback loop somewhere and convinced yourself that it's safe. 

Do you even know what Blockchain is?  I'll tell you, it's a database, one that records every transaction ever done on every bitcoin ever created. 

Think Tor is one way to be safe?  Think again :









						Is Tor Trustworthy and Safe?
					

There is a lot of misinformation being promoted in various privacy circles about Tor. This article will examine some facts about Tor and assess whether it is the infallible privacy tool it’s made out to be by some. There is a growing chorus of people who blindly recommend Tor to anyone looking...




					restoreprivacy.com
				





Bitcoin?  Nah :





__





						Science | AAAS
					






					www.sciencemag.org
				




"Among the first researchers to find a crack in the wall were the husband-and-wife team of Philip and Diana Koshy. In 2014, as graduate students in McDaniel’s lab at Penn State, they built their own version of the software that buyers and sellers use to take part in the Bitcoin network. It was especially designed to be inefficient, downloading a copy of every single packet of data transmitted by every computer in the Bitcoin network. “We wanted to see everything,” Philip Koshy says.


If the data flowing through the network were perfectly coordinated, with everyone’s computer sending and receiving data as frequently as the rest, then it might be impossible to link Bitcoin addresses with IP addresses. But there is no top-down coordination of the Bitcoin network, and its flow is far from perfect. The Koshys noticed that sometimes a computer sent out information about only one transaction, meaning that the person at that IP address was the owner of that Bitcoin address. And sometimes a surge of transactions came from a single IP address—probably when the user was upgrading his or her Bitcoin client software. Those transactions held the key to a whole backlog of their Bitcoin addresses. Like unraveling a ball of string, once the Koshys isolated some of the addresses, others followed.


Ultimately, they were able to map IP addresses to more than 1000 Bitcoin addresses; they published their findings in the proceedings of an obscure cryptography conference. "

So yeah, they can find your IP address.

Tor can't protect you.

And once they find it, you're done. 

There is one secure and untraceable means of conducting a financial transaction, but even that one requires manual re-distribution and randomization.  It's called cash.

Bitcoin and block chain are a big gov't wet dream come true.  Imagine, people buying and selling in a blockchain based currency.  Every transaction you ever made, right there, forever.  

Never give up cash folks, and never think that these new technologies are on your side.  They are not.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 9, 2021)

Why are you focusing so much on IP address. I can offload crypto from my exchange to my wallet and log in on ANY computer or accessible network in the world. At the library, in a coffee shop, at the airport, im my car next to the coffee shop....And even then IP address are only traceable to the main node which likely serves hundreds of other connections in a building. An IP address is not even enough evidence to prove piracy - https://www.techspot.com/news/76190-us-court-appeals-ip-address-isnt-enough-identify.html - So why would it magically work with crypto?


----------



## RandallFlagg (Jun 10, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Why are you focusing so much on IP address. I can offload crypto from my exchange to my wallet and log in on ANY computer or accessible network in the world. At the library, in a coffee shop, at the airport, im my car next to the coffee shop....And even then IP address are only traceable to the main node which likely serves hundreds of other connections in a building. An IP address is not even enough evidence to prove piracy - https://www.techspot.com/news/76190-us-court-appeals-ip-address-isnt-enough-identify.html - So why would it magically work with crypto?



The IP is just the beginning.  Your MAC address.   The clock on your PC.  The CPU serial number.  Other accounts you might access from that IP, that identify you.  A cookie.

Sure, if you always log in using a new device from a completely different far away location, and never access anything else, maybe you can stay anon.  It is, theoretically, possible.  Practically speaking, not going to happen.


----------



## DeathtoGnomes (Jun 10, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Honestly guys, how much do you think you know?  You sound like kids to me.  You think it's safe because you got into some self-reinforcing feedback loop somewhere and convinced yourself that it's safe.
> 
> Do you even know what Blockchain is?  I'll tell you, it's a database, one that records every transaction ever done on every bitcoin ever created.
> 
> ...


I believe this tracking only  works for unencrypted transactions. I wouldnt mind glancing over  the white paper as media reports are  never 100% accurate.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 10, 2021)

All of those are very easy to spoof. Like really easy. A dual nic setup on a linux box and your done. 

 And IMO a world elite class hacker should be able to do all of these things with ease and also not store stolen crypto on a US exchange. 

Plus we haven't even touched VPN services yet.

Which is why I am super skeptical about the claims being made from the .gov.


----------



## trog100 (Jun 10, 2021)

"hang onto your cash"... governments are busy coming up with their own versions of digital currencies.. the ability to withdraw "cash" from your digital account aint gonna be part of the game.. he he..

ether way bitcoin resisted the attempts to drive it down below 30K.. its now  above 37K and looking good..

trog


----------



## Outback Bronze (Jun 10, 2021)

So what happens when I use my iPhone all on free WiFi in my state like the Free WiFi at any McDonalds store?

They able to track me, if I do the transaction then turn my data off?

Also I heard that the CIA can't even crack an iPhone.

Not sure if this is relevant?


----------



## DeathtoGnomes (Jun 10, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> They able to track me


parts of ipone tracking can be turned off in settings.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Jun 10, 2021)

Outback Bronze said:


> So what happens when I use my iPhone all on free WiFi in my state like the Free WiFi at any McDonalds store?
> 
> They able to track me, if I do the transaction then turn my data off?
> 
> ...



You use McDonalds ISP.

The ISP tracks your iPhones MAC address when you get your IP.

Every piece of hardware has a unique MAC address.  It is possible to 'spoof' a MAC address, however many switches and routers can detect it and will not let you connect.  

Go look up UDID.


----------



## Outback Bronze (Jun 10, 2021)

More News:

El Salvador president wants to use volcanoes for Bitcoin mining farms | TweakTown


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 10, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Honestly guys, how much do you think you know? You sound like kids to me. You think it's safe because you got into some self-reinforcing feedback loop somewhere and convinced yourself that it's safe.


I said nothing about Tor (if I had to use one of those I'd probably use I2P but nah, I don't need it) or any networked technology.  The quote you quoted actually referenced in person paper wallet transactions (there is a reason I said "street transaction" and not "wire transaction".)
Maybe read before you criticize next time.  I know what I'm talking about, I'm not a kid.

Of course the best way to stay out of trouble is to not be doing trouble in the first place.  Don't act like I'm not claiming that.  I'm a goody two shoes, I even file my crypto taxes, but I hate misinformation.

Keep in mind, I'm actually a security researcher and do that for a living.  I find it amusing you quoted me in this context.



RandallFlagg said:


> Go look up UDID.


Isn't that just an ipv6 mac which is more or less formed using all sorts of ways (including but not limited too RNG?), and integrating the mac?  Most DHCP servers are pretty liberal about those.

Granted, that one I'm not fully up to date on without hitting the books, but why is this such a revelation?

EDIT:  My bad, that's a UUID.  Look, I can acronym too.



RandallFlagg said:


> Every piece of hardware has a unique MAC address. It is possible to 'spoof' a MAC address, however many switches and routers can detect it and will not let you connect.


Android spoofs the MAC by default now with a random one.  I really doubt anyone doesn't let all android devices connect.  Please.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 10, 2021)

Papahyooie said:


> What if I told you I can obtain crypto and make a crypto transaction without ever having an internet connection myself?
> 
> (spoiler, I can.)


And can you maintain anonymity doing so? My guess is no.


trog100 said:


> lex is basally a bitcoin troll.. he has his own reasons for not liking it or crypto in general..
> 
> its impossible to convince those who dont want convincing.. the debate makes painful and time wasting reading.. he is entitled to his own oppinion.. its the people who keep trying to change it that are at fault..
> 
> trog





ZenZimZaliben said:


> Willful ignorance and refusing to accept reality when presented with indisputable facts is not an opinion. It is a Troll, sorta like flat earthers.


That's it? "Troll" is the best response you two can come up with? 


R-T-B said:


> I said nothing about Tor (if I had to use one of those I'd probably use I2P but nah, I don't need it) or any networked technology. The quote you quoted actually referenced in person paper wallet transactions (there is a reason I said "street transaction" and not "wire transaction".)
> Maybe read before you criticize next time. I know what I'm talking about, I'm not a kid.


He wasn't directing those comments at you...


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 10, 2021)

I honestly thought Flat Earther was far worse. LOL


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 10, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> I honestly thought Flat Earther was far worse. LOL


It was laughable, so much so that it wasn't worth acknowledging.


----------



## DeathtoGnomes (Jun 10, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> That's it? "Troll" is the best response you two can come up with?


for the uninformed, yes it is, but is it true, the world will never know.



R-T-B said:


> EDIT: My bad, that's a UUID. Look, I can acronym too.


A Coded Rendition Of Names Yielding Meaning, here is another acronym


----------



## trog100 (Jun 10, 2021)

coiners and no coiners.. he he.. 

both could be considered trolls by those in the opposing camp.. 

trog


----------



## Papahyooie (Jun 10, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> And can you maintain anonymity doing so? My guess is no.


Your guess is wrong.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Jun 10, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I said nothing about Tor (if I had to use one of those I'd probably use I2P but nah, I don't need it) or any networked technology.  The quote you quoted actually referenced in person paper wallet transactions (there is a reason I said "street transaction" and not "wire transaction".)
> Maybe read before you criticize next time.  I know what I'm talking about, I'm not a kid.
> 
> Of course the best way to stay out of trouble is to not be doing trouble in the first place.  Don't act like I'm not claiming that.  I'm a goody two shoes, I even file my crypto taxes, but I hate misinformation.
> ...



Thinking that Google Android is good for privacy, -1000 for common sense.

Google is in the business of selling the users information.  Most recent news article on Android privacy - even when location reporting is turned off, apps can find your location.   That is just scratching the service.

I will just say, there is nothing you can do to an Android or iOS tablet or phone from the user settings that will make you anonymous at a level people seem to think they are at.  Nothing.  Your phone is always narc'ing on you.  

I mean seriously, the FBI got 85% of the BTC back from the Colonial Pipeline attack in under 1 month.  Four weeks.  That isn't long.   I would bet the technical aspect of this took them no more than 1 week, the first week was probably just getting head out of rear.  Then assemble a team.  Then get logs and warrants.  Then they probably started confiscating by week 3.  A guess, but I bet it's pretty close.  

If that is Bitcoin's security / anonymity, it just isn't.  

And every single one of the bitcoins that Colonial paid is now stolen property.  

And they know exactly what coins they are, they are just waiting for them to pop up in the Blockchain - remember, Blockchain is the database that keeps track of every single transaction ever made on every single bitcoin ever created.


----------



## Outback Bronze (Jun 10, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> the FBI got 85% of the BTC back



They got access to the private keys somehow.

There is a crypto wallet that has been trying to get hacked for years by hackers with no success.

Hackers Have Been Trying To Crack Bitcoin Wallet Worth $750 Million But Here's The Catch (cryptopotato.com)

Get this - there is a Bitcoin wallet with 69,000 Bitcoins ($693,207,618) that is being passed around between hackers/crackers for the past 2 years for the purpose of cracking the password, no success so far.


----------



## Papahyooie (Jun 10, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Thinking that Google Android is good for privacy, -1000 for common sense.
> 
> Google is in the business of selling the users information.  Most recent news article on Android privacy - even when location reporting is turned off, apps can find your location.   That is just scratching the service.
> 
> ...


I think we've lost the point that started this entire conversation. This discussion of privacy and anonymity started precisely BECAUSE it seems like it was so easy for them to regain the BTC. And that's fishy, because it makes no sense for the perps to have literally attached their drivers' licenses to the wallets where they sent the ransom. 

"If that is Bitcoin's security/anonymity, it just isn't"

Yea, we agree with you. But that's the point. That *isn't* Bitcoin's security/anonymity.


----------



## HD64G (Jun 10, 2021)

For the last 12 years, cryptocurrency was a trivial, and experiment, a trend. Salvador became the first country that will pass a law recognizing the value of BTC relatively to the US$. Things will go very fast from now on me thinks.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 10, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> He wasn't directing those comments at you..


Maybe not, but the quote system made it confusing.



RandallFlagg said:


> Thinking that Google Android is good for privacy, -1000 for common sense.


Did I ever say that?  No.  I just pointed out that even something "so bad at privacy" spoofs macs, and does so habitually.  Spoofed macs will thus absolutely not be blocked at nearly any common public wifi place.

Please quit filling in blanks with things I'd never say or claim.


----------



## Chomiq (Jun 10, 2021)

HD64G said:


> For the last 12 years, cryptocurrency was a trivial, and experiment, a trend. Salvador became the first country that will pass a law recognizing the value of BTC relatively to the US$. Things will go very fast from now on me thinks.


El Salvador is a banana republic run by corrupt President and is effectively an autocracy. It's not the best example.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 10, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> El Salvador is a banana republic run by corrupt President and is effectively an autocracy. It's not the best example.


It may be Tropico IRL edition but it's still a country.  Somewhat newsworthy but lets not blow it out of proportion.


----------



## HD64G (Jun 10, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> El Salvador is a banana republic run by corrupt President and is effectively an autocracy. It's not the best example.


Not cancelling your argument but if another 3-4 small countries decide to do the same, it will be of no importance who started it.


----------



## trog100 (Jun 10, 2021)

HD64G said:


> Not cancelling your argument but if another 3-4 small countries decide to do the same, it will be of no importance who started it.



lets hope the Salvador guy dosnt go the same way as the colonel  and his african gold dinar.. he he

trog


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 10, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> I mean seriously, the FBI got 85% of the BTC back from the Colonial Pipeline attack in under 1 month.  Four weeks.  That isn't long.   I would bet the technical aspect of this took them no more than 1 week, the first week was probably just getting head out of rear.  Then assemble a team.  Then get logs and warrants.  Then they probably started confiscating by week 3.  A guess, but I bet it's pretty close.



You really believe the FBI is telling the truth? Because they have always been champions of the truth?


----------



## trog100 (Jun 10, 2021)

i am afraid both randal and lex have to both firmly go into my no coiner trolling camp.. he he

both find whatever negatives they can and push them as far as they can.. 

after a while it gets boring.. or the toing and froing with them does.. 

trog


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 10, 2021)

Papahyooie said:


> Your guess is wrong.


Oh, ok...


----------



## freeagent (Jun 10, 2021)

Just throwing this out there.. but trog, you have been trolling the “no coiners” with your smugness for months..


----------



## Papahyooie (Jun 10, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Oh, ok...


I mean, you didn't provide any reason why you guessed no, so am I supposed to provide a reason why you're wrong?

But since I actually have an understanding of how this stuff works, I'll throw the truce flag in the interest of education.

I have a bag of turnips I want to sell. Bob wants turnips. Neither of us want to use cash, for reasons that don't matter. Bottom line is, we don't.

So Bob says, "I'll give you some BTC for the turnips. 1 BTC for your sack of turnips."

I say "Sure. Deal"

Bob hands me a piece of paper with a wallet address written on it, assuring me it contains 1 BTC.

I now own 1 BTC.

I want to buy some Apples. Sally has a sack of apples. She wants 1 BTC for her apples. I give her the piece of paper with a wallet address on it. She now owns that BTC.


Obviously, I'm glossing over a few things here, but the gist remains the same. I have made a BTC transaction (two, in fact. A round trip into and then out of the crypto ecosystem.) without ever having connected to the internet or divulged my identity. Now obviously Bob and Sally can rat me out if they know who I am, but that's not the point. That is not the failing of the system itself, and one can imagine plenty of scenarios in which Bob and Sally never have any idea who I am.

This is a scenario that is meant to convey the point that any security/privacy issues are NOT an issue with crypto. They are an issue with adjacent systems. (such as exchanges used to transfer crypto to cash, which as I've just shown isn't necessary.)  So the security and privacy concerns that you and others have are not issues with crypto, they are issues with your assumption that crypto MUST fit within your tiny framework of perceived potential use cases. And there is no reason crypto must do that.


----------



## dorsetknob (Jun 10, 2021)

Papahyooie said:


> I have a bag of turnips I want to sell. Bob wants turnips. Neither of us want to use cash, for reasons that don't matter. Bottom line is, we don't.
> 
> So Bob says, "I'll give you some BTC for the turnips. 1 BTC for your sack of turnips."
> 
> ...


Sure but Remember...................IRS/HMCR....your National Taxation Service  expect everyonee to file Tax Returns
if they Seam Dubious They will investigate. and assess a value to your Trades and then charge you fiat currency for the Value of your goods for goods/services Trade.
You Cannot Escape Death and Taxes ( The Grim Reaper is also a part time Accountant)


----------



## 64K (Jun 10, 2021)

Papahyooie said:


> I mean, you didn't provide any reason why you guessed no, so am I supposed to provide a reason why you're wrong?
> 
> But since I actually have an understanding of how this stuff works, I'll throw the truce flag in the interest of education.
> 
> ...



But in reality you would have to use an exchange of some kind because you're not going to sell a sack of turnips for $35,000 and you're not going to buy a sack of apples for $35,000

Both transactions would be a very small fraction of 1 Bitcoin and likely they wouldn't be the same value.


----------



## Papahyooie (Jun 10, 2021)

dorsetknob said:


> Sure but Remember...................IRS/HMCR....your National Taxation Service  expect everyonee to file Tax Returns
> if they Seam Dubious They will investigate. and assess a value to your Trades and then charge you fiat currency for the Value of your goods for goods/services Trade.
> You Cannot Escape Death and Taxes ( The Grim Reaper is also a part time Accountant)


Yes, I agree. But that isn't the fault of crypto. It is yet another adjacent system that must be navigated. And I would tend to argue that crypto would *aid* you in those efforts, not hinder. 



64K said:


> But in reality you would have to use an exchange of some kind because you're not going to sell a sack of turnips for $35,000 and you're not going to buy a sack of apples for $35,000
> 
> Both transactions would be a very small fraction of 1 Bitcoin and likely they wouldn't be the same value.



You're really gonna latch onto the value of the bitcoin as your issue? lol. These are imaginary example values, and they are irrelevant. If you're going to argue about that, you might as well argue that I should have chosen potatoes instead of apples. Both are irrelevant arguments to the point.


----------



## 64K (Jun 10, 2021)

Papahyooie said:


> You're really gonna latch onto the value of the bitcoin as your issue? lol. These are imaginary example values, and they are irrelevant. If you're going to argue about that, you might as well argue that I should have chosen potatoes instead of apples. Both are irrelevant arguments to the point.



But in the real world prices are relevant. What you buy and what you sell are very seldom the exact same value.


----------



## Papahyooie (Jun 10, 2021)

64K said:


> But in the real world prices are relevant. What you buy and what you sell are very seldom the same value.


.... you're serious? 

So... then feel free to insert the real world values of the items in question into my post....  It doesn't change anything.


----------



## trog100 (Jun 10, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Just throwing this out there.. but trog, you have been trolling the “no coiners” with your smugness for months..


 
he he.. i would call it self confidence and the fact i aint wrong that often.. this may piss them off a little but they generally deserve it.. 

trog


----------



## 64K (Jun 10, 2021)

Papahyooie said:


> It doesn't change anything.



It does though. Your assertion is that you don't have to use an exchange of some kind but in reality you do.

Let's use your hypothetical example. You sell a sack of turnips for 1/480th of a Bitcoin (what are the odds that this buyer has a wallet with exactly 1/480th of a bitcoin?). You buy a sack of apples for 1/360th of a Bitcoin. How do you make up the difference? Cash will have to be introduced at some point in the transaction. Therefore an exchange will be necessary.

My point is that an exchange will be necessary.


----------



## Papahyooie (Jun 10, 2021)

64K said:


> It does though. Your assertion is that you don't have to use an exchange of some kind but in reality you do.
> 
> Let's use your hypothetical example. You sell a sack of turnips for 1/480th of a Bitcoin (what are the odds that this buyer has a wallet with exactly 1/480th of a bitcoin?). You buy a sack of apples for 1/360th of a Bitcoin). How do you make up the difference? Cash will have to be introduced at some point in the transaction. Therefore an exchange will be necessary.


Negative. You just don't have an imagination.

Ted runs a service transferring crypto for a fee (in BTC, directly on the blockchain, not through an exchange). Bob tells Ted to put 1/480th into a new wallet from his own wallet. Ted does so.

Bob hands me the new wallet. I now have 1/480th of a bitcoin.

I hand that to Ted and say put this in my own wallet where I keep my crypto. Ted does so.

Reverse the process for Sally, and whatever her fee amount is for apples.

Ted never knows my name any more than the cashier at walmart does. I'm just a customer. I maintain my anonymity and complete lack of connection to the internet. It's up to Ted to handle his own anonymity on the internet.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 10, 2021)

Papahyooie said:


> Negative. You just don't have an imagination.
> 
> Ted runs a service transferring crypto for a fee (in BTC, directly on the blockchain, not through an exchange). Bob tells Ted to put 1/480th into a new wallet from his own wallet. Ted does so.
> 
> ...


Ted is going to run afloul of KYC laws and will have to register as a money transmitter in the states, but would be true in many other countries.


----------



## Papahyooie (Jun 10, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Ted is going to run afloul of KYC laws and will have to register as a money transmitter in the states, but would be true in many other countries.


I will refer back to my statement that BTC and crypto in general was developed SPECIFICALLY to be illegal, or at least alegal. So we're going to assume that Ted did not register with anything. But he could have done so, if he was so inclined.  

Ted's anonymity is not the concern, nor is it necessary to prove Ted's anonymity in order to prove that truly anonymous transactions are possible, as I have shown above.

However, if the reader cares to extrapolate and do a little deductive reasoning, consider that Ted could possibly run his own VPN server on a virtual machine purchased outside his legal jurisdiction, perhaps in a non extradition country for added safety. Ted could be certain that the VPN software saves no logs and destroys what is in memory as soon as it is used. Ted could have used local currency, temporary gift cards bought with cash (or even crypto!), or a pseudonymized card service to pay for the virtual server. He could register for all of this under a pseudonym such as "Seymore Butts", or better yet multiple pseudonyms. Ted could use self-signed certs to be certain that his traffic is SSL encrypted and completely anonymous. 

Consider also that myself, Bob, and Sally could just do all of this ourselves, and cut out Ted the middle man. 

The more you understand about how this works, and adding in a little imagination and problem solving skills, the more fishy what happened with this ransomware attack seems. And the sillier the statement "if the government wants to find you, they will" seems as well.


----------



## 64K (Jun 10, 2021)

Papahyooie said:


> Negative. You just don't have an imagination.
> 
> Ted runs a service transferring crypto for a fee (in BTC, directly on the blockchain, not through an exchange). Bob tells Ted to put 1/480th into a new wallet from his own wallet. Ted does so.
> 
> ...



I imagine it takes at least a little effort to make a new wallet so Bob paid maybe $20 to Ted to make the new wallet with 1/480th of a bitcoin. Bob would need to recover his loss of $20 by passing the fee along to you. The exchange is even more imbalanced now. You need 1/360th of a Bitcoin to buy the apples so you need 1/120th of a Bitcoin still for the sack of apples. So you ask Ted to make you a wallet with 1/360th of a Bitcoin and pay Ted $20 to make the wallet.

Seems to me that Ted is the real winner here. He made $40 in fees for this one simple transaction. So is it possible? Yes. Is it practical? No. Because you have wasted $40 in fees for nothing and Ted chuckles every time he sees you coming.


----------



## Papahyooie (Jun 10, 2021)

64K said:


> I imagine it takes at least a little effort to make a new wallet so Bob paid maybe $20 to Ted to make the new wallet with 1/480th of a bitcoin. Bob would need to recover his loss of $20 by passing the fee along to you. The exchange is even more imbalanced now. You need 1/360th of a Bitcoin to buy the apples so you need 1/120th of a Bitcoin still for the sack of apples. So you ask Ted to make you a wallet with 1/360th of a Bitcoin and pay Ted $20 to make the wallet.
> 
> Seems to me that Ted is the real winner here. He made $40 in fees for this one transactions. So is it possible? Yes. Is it practical? No. Because you have wasted $40 on a simple trasaction on fees for nothing and Ted chuckles every time he sees you coming.


It takes a single keypress (or even zero perhaps) if you created a software to do it. Ted did. So Ted charges 0.000001 BTC per transaction, because he does tens of millions of them per day and works on a volume principle. Perhaps this specific transaction might cost a little more, since Ted is providing a paper to electronic conversion. But how much would you charge to type in a number and hit enter? $20? You won't stay in business long.

Or do you still think the numbers are not agnostic here? Your argument is based on the assumption that the transaction costs too much, and that simply isn't reality, much less required.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 10, 2021)

Papahyooie said:


> I will refer back to my statement that BTC and crypto in general was developed SPECIFICALLY to be illegal


And I'm going to again question that statement.

It may have some attributes that got abused that way.  But nothing Satoshi said or did made it seem like he supported that.  Hell, he freaked out when the EFF started accepting bitcoin, calling them "radicals."


----------



## 64K (Jun 10, 2021)

Ted isn't a fool. He has to spend a little time talking to Bob and you. He's not going to do tens of millions of transaction a day and will need to have his time paid for.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 10, 2021)

64K said:


> Ted isn't a fool. He has to spend a little time talking to Bob and you. He's not going to do tens of millions of transaction a day and will need to have his time paid for.








						LocalBitcoins.com: Fastest and easiest way to buy and sell bitcoins  - LocalBitcoins
					

Get bitcoins. Fast, easy and safe. Near you.




					localbitcoins.com
				




This goes on a lot more and for far less than you would picture.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Jun 10, 2021)

Papahyooie said:


> Negative. You just don't have an imagination.
> 
> Ted runs a service transferring crypto for a fee (in BTC, directly on the blockchain, not through an exchange). Bob tells Ted to put 1/480th into a new wallet from his own wallet. Ted does so.
> 
> ...



Who is Ted that he gives away free Bitcoin on demand?  That does not exist.  

You request that on the internet, right, and how do you pay for that service?  Even if Ted doesn't know you, you paid him, there's a transaction and it is linked to Ted.   There's also a wallet.  And if you ever intend to use that bitcoin at all, it can be tracked.

So with bitcoin you have to go to Jerry.  Jerry gives you a bitcoin for a fee.  The fee is transacted, there's a record of it, but Jerry doesn't know your name because he is a retard that lets anonymous people use credit cards on his site.  Then Jerry gives you the wallet.  For whatever reason, the feds want the owner(s) of that bitcoin.  They go to Jerry, confiscate his server, threaten him and he coughs up any and all info needed.  They figure out when the wallet was made, correlate it with bank transactions to Jerry's business, and track your ass down.

You've basically attempted to reduce Bitcoin to the same utility as cold hard cash, and still failed.   Laundering cash would be far less risky than that load of garbage, because cash doesn't leave a trail.  Bitcoin does.

For example.  You have turnips for sale.  I want turnips.  I give you $5 for turnips.  My $5 is stolen and they know the serial numbers, so when you go to the bank they take your $5.  You don't know my name.  Nobody knows who bought your turnips, and never will.

See how that works?


----------



## Papahyooie (Jun 10, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> And I'm going to again question that statement.
> 
> It may have some attributes that got abused that way.  But nothing Satoshi said or did made it seem like he supported that.  Hell, he freaked out when the EFF started accepting bitcoin, calling them "radicals."


Don't conflate "illegal" with "immoral."

I am not saying crypto was created to be "bad." I am saying it was made to be "illegal." That is a very important difference. 


64K said:


> Ted isn't a fool. He has to spend a little time talking to Bob and you. He's not going to do tens of millions of transaction a day and will need to have his time paid for.


No, because he has a webserver as well that accepts such transactions electronically from millions of other people. His paper to electronic service is a small part of his business. He charges a dollar per transaction, and he doesn't care one bit that you think he should charge $20.



RandallFlagg said:


> Who is Ted that he gives away free Bitcoin on demand?  That does not exist.
> 
> You request that on the internet, right, and how do you pay for that service?  Even if Ted doesn't know you, you paid him, there's a transaction and it is linked to Ted.   There's also a wallet.  And if you ever intend to use that bitcoin at all, it can be tracked.
> 
> ...


You didn't read my post, and missed a very key point. So try again.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 10, 2021)

Papahyooie said:


> Don't conflate "illegal" with "immoral


I wasn't but I'm pretty sure satoshi was a very strict lawabiding type based on his last posts.

All theory of course.  How can it not be?



RandallFlagg said:


> Who is Ted that he gives away free Bitcoin on demand


Who said anything about free?


----------



## RandallFlagg (Jun 10, 2021)

Papahyooie said:


> You didn't read my post, and missed a very key point. So try again.



Do enlighten me.  Who is Ted that he will put 1/480th of a bitcoin (about $73 USD) into a wallet and give it to me?  How does he expect to get paid?


----------



## Papahyooie (Jun 10, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I wasn't but I'm pretty sure satoshi was a very strict lawabiding type based on his last posts.
> 
> All theory of course.  How can it not be?
> 
> ...


Ah well I suppose I misunderstood you then. I cannot believe that someone who created an extranational, and therefore by proxy "illegal" in the sense that it is not ordained and expressly permitted, currency would want it to be "legal". That simply doesn't make sense. I'm more of the opinion that "Satoshi" is multiple people personally.



RandallFlagg said:


> Do enlighten me.  Who is Ted that he will put 1/480th of a bitcoin (about $73 USD) into a wallet and give it to me?  How does he expect to get paid?


Sigh... Here let me quote myself and zoom in a bit.

Ted runs a service transferring crypto for a fee (in BTC, directly on the blockchain, not through an exchange). Bob tells Ted to put 1/480th into a new wallet from his own wallet. Ted does so.

Bob tells Ted to put 1/480th into a new wallet from his own wallet. Ted does so.

put 1/480th into a new wallet from his own wallet.

from his own wallet


... it was Bob's bitcoin/wallet. Ted did not give anybody BTC. How is this difficult?


----------



## RandallFlagg (Jun 10, 2021)

Papahyooie said:


> Ah well I suppose I misunderstood you then. I cannot believe that someone who created an extranational, and therefore by proxy "illegal" in the sense that it is not ordained and expressly permitted, currency would want it to be "legal". That simply doesn't make sense. I'm more of the opinion that "Satoshi" is multiple people personally.
> 
> 
> Sigh... Here let me quote myself and zoom in a bit.
> ...




You don't understand what blockchain is and how it works is what I get.   What you are trying to do is describe 'laundering' bitcoin.

The exchange does not matter, for starters.

Ted got your BTC, no different than a credit card.  The Blockchain holds a history of all transactions ever on a bitcoin.   It must be verified by the blockchain network, if it isn't then it won't be valid.  Not only the fractional bitcoin Ted gave you, but the BTC you paid him in.   Both transactions are recorded everywhere. 

Try again.


----------



## 64K (Jun 10, 2021)

Suppose Ted gets busted for running an operation without a license and has to turn his transaction records over to authorities and they find your wallet being used over and over?


----------



## Papahyooie (Jun 10, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> You don't understand what blockchain is and how it works is what I get.   What you are trying to do is describe 'laundering' bitcoin.
> 
> The exchange does not matter, for starters.
> 
> ...


You're off the rails bud. Ted is providing a service in lieu of me having to connect to the blockchain myself (since FAR earlier in this conversation, a requirement was applied that I never connect to the internet myself, to maintain anonymity). Laundering has nothing to do with this, and it still perfectly fine that it gets recorded on the blockchain. I'm not trying to be rude here, but you're apparently missing half the information you need. Go back and read the whole convo. 


64K said:


> Suppose Ted gets busted for running an operation without a license and has to turn his transaction records over to authorities and they find your wallet being used over and over?


Sucks for Ted? Doesn't matter to me though. Ted didn't keep "transaction records" beyond what's on the blockchain, and he has no idea who I am.


----------



## freeagent (Jun 10, 2021)

trog100 said:


> he he.. i would call it self confidence and the fact i aint wrong that often.. this may piss them off a little but they generally deserve it..
> 
> trog





Honestly man.. Its all good. I don't hate the player, just not liking the game.. 

I want a new GPU like everyone lol.. I pretty much gave up on 30 series now and await the monetary violation that will be the next series.. People have been conditioned into paying the high prices, Even when capacity is back I am not sure the lower prices will be. I am sure there will be all kinds of excuses why chips are still expensive. But that is just the pessimist in me.. hopefully I am wrong!


----------



## Hardcore Games (Jun 10, 2021)

Bitcoin has been drifting lower over the last 6 months and I am not sure where it will level off


----------



## trog100 (Jun 11, 2021)

Hardcore Games said:


> Bitcoin has been drifting lower over the last 6 months and I am not sure where it will level off



come on dude at least make some attempt at getting things vaguely right.. over the last six months lets say this year.. bitcoin has gone from 20K to 64K and back down to near 30K and its now at 37K...

some pretty volatile moves for sure but not much drifting lower.. he he

another no coiner critic posting crypto negative nonsense with a pretty obvious agenda in mind.. 

we have lost a couple of them like metroid and lynx but a few are still hanging on in.. 

trog


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 11, 2021)

trog100 said:


> another no coiner critic posting crypto negative nonsense with a pretty obvious agenda in mind..


It may be true, but can we quit the labels?  It only leads to tribalism.


----------



## Rithsom (Jun 11, 2021)

trog100 said:


> another no coiner critic posting crypto negative nonsense with a pretty obvious agenda in mind..
> 
> we have lost a couple of them like metroid and lynx but a few nother no coiner troll posting crypto negative nonsense with a pretty obvious agenda in mind..



Please stop with the needless bashing. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that they have an agenda...


----------



## trog100 (Jun 11, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> It may be true, but can we quit the labels?  It only leads to tribalism.



it is tribalism and it needs calling for what it is.. continuous trolling also needs calling for what it is..




Rithsom said:


> Please stop with the needless bashing. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that they have an agenda...



one thing i have not been guilty of is needless bashing.. he he..

trog


----------



## sepheronx (Jun 11, 2021)

Rithsom said:


> Please stop with the needless bashing. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that they have an agenda...


some other members here were constantly telling others that they do not understand blockchain (more or less calling others stupid) and more or less insulting too.  But no one jumped to that.  We also had members here wishing ill upon miners and being outright rude too.

I see a bit of bias in your comment.  Instead of aiming at Trog, aim at the others as well.


----------



## Rithsom (Jun 11, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> some other members here were constantly telling others that they do not understand blockchain and more or less insulting too.  But no one jumped to that.  We also had members here wishing ill upon miners and being outright rude too.
> 
> I see a bit of bias in your comment.  Instead of aiming at Trog, aim at the others as well.



If crypto is such an amazing thing, then you "coiners" should set an example instead of calling everyone else trolls.


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## sepheronx (Jun 11, 2021)

Rithsom said:


> If crypto is such an amazing thing, then you "coiners" should set an example instead of calling everyone else trolls.



And you no coiners think you are so great and wise, then try not to be insulting of others and set an example as to why we should listen to you.

It works both ways.  So I suggest you get off your throne, back to earth please.

I think the mods should step in and help get civility back in order here.


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## Rithsom (Jun 11, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> And you no coiners think you are so great and wise, then try not to be insulting of others and set an example as to why we should listen to you.
> 
> It works both ways.  So I suggest you get off your throne, back to earth please.



So it works both ways, yet I'm the one who is on a throne?

Please stop. I never insulted anyone in this thread.

But yes, we really need some mods in here.


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## sepheronx (Jun 11, 2021)

Rithsom said:


> So it works both ways, yet I'm the one who is on a throne?
> 
> Please stop. I never insulted anyone in this thread.



but you were quick to go after Trog when he is responding in kind to how others talked to himself, myself and others.  And no, you cant ask someone to stop if you started it by going after someone when he was simply responding to others in kind.  Yes, he shouldn't be going down to their level.  But one cannot blame him either.

Maybe, we should let the mods get involved, no?


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## Rithsom (Jun 11, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Yes, he shouldn't be going down to their level.



Let's just agree on this point and be done here.


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## the54thvoid (Jun 11, 2021)

Hello, Barbara?

Did someone call?

Not my sub-forum so I can't LQ the crap above. However, I can give points and reply-ban. So please, stop being antagonistic. If you don't like mining as a thing, I'd advise folks to make a constructive post about why that is so. If you do like mining and get irritated by the haters, try seeing their side too. 

Frankly, the thread title isn't valid anymore anyway. Don't know why folk are even posting here.


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## trog100 (Jun 11, 2021)

crypto really does have a big divide.. gamers hate miners and blame them for the high price of graphics cards plus crypto in general has some pretty powerfully enemies..

we all have some kind of bias.. i have skin in the crypto game and its bound to affect my thinking.. i do declare this fact though..

i think it helps if general readers know this and that often what poster are saying is part of a not so hidden agenda..

trog

ps.. people post in this thread because it can be informative and it can also be interesting.. the thread title is valid enough.. it goes back to when crypto started to be interesting again..


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## Rithsom (Jun 11, 2021)

the54thvoid said:


> Not my sub-forum so I can't LQ the crap above. However, I can give points and reply-ban. So please, stop being antagonistic. If you don't like mining as a thing, I'd advise folks to make a constructive post about why that is so. If you do like mining and get irritated by the haters, try seeing their side too.
> 
> Frankly, the thread title isn't valid anymore anyway. Don't know why folk are even posting here.



I'd be happy to see this thread closed altogether. I think we all know miners' and gamers' reasons for liking and disliking crypto, respectively. The only reason that I can think of to keep this thread open is to talk about some random news that pops up.

I'd also like to apologize to everyone for coming off as defensive. I was just trying to look out for a fellow forum member. I now realize that I handled the situation wrongly, and should've just contacted a mod without saying anything.


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## trog100 (Jun 11, 2021)

Rithsom said:


> I'd be happy to see this thread closed altogether. I think we all know miners' and gamers' reasons for liking and disliking crypto, respectively. The only reason that I can think of to keep this thread open is to talk about some random news that pops up.
> 
> I'd also like to apologize to everyone for coming off as defensive. I was just trying to look out for a fellow forum member. I now realize that I handled the situation wrongly, and shoud've just contacted a mod without saying anything.



in general this thread is a crypto positive thread.. i am pretty sure anyone in the crypto negative camp would love to see it closed.. 

i am thinking about starting another one called "the bitcoin and crypto thread".. 

if this one is closed i will do so.. 

trog


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 11, 2021)

trog100 said:


> he he.. i would call it self confidence and the fact i aint wrong that often..


And the farmer dragged off yet another load...



trog100 said:


> continuous trolling also needs calling for what it is..


Says that user constantly trolling everyone's comments...ah wait, that's just conversing normally in normal human conversation.

News flash for you, when someone makes a statement that is in opposition to something you have said, it is NOT trolling you. It's called conversation and communication. If your mental constitution is not strong enough to tolerate normal human conversation, maybe the internet is not the place for you.

Back on topic: Cryptocoin plunge levels seem to have slowed in the last week but are still in a general decline trend. I wonder what is taking place behind the scenes...



trog100 said:


> i am pretty sure anyone in the crypto negative camp would love to see it closed..


Not really. If these discussions didn't happen here they would happen in another thread.... Actually, perhaps that's a good idea? Get this discussion behind a login requirement and off the front page? 

Mods, opinions? I'd be happy to start a new general cryptocoin discussion thread. Seems like we need one anyway..


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## Outback Bronze (Jun 11, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I wonder what is taking place behind the scenes.



Bitcoin price suddenly surges to 3-year high : )​


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## trog100 (Jun 11, 2021)

bitcoin is now at 37K... it seem to have settled there and is likely to go sideways for a while.. 

eth on the other hand hasnt recovered quite so well.. eth has been out performing bitcoin for the last few months.. this trend seems to have reversed.. what this means i havnt a clue but it must mean something..

trog


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 11, 2021)

trog100 said:


> bitcoin is now at 37K... it seem to have settled there and is likely to go sideways for a while..


Sorry, that's not what's happening, go look at the trends. 30day, 3 month and 1 year show a different situation.



trog100 said:


> eth on the other hand hasnt recovered quite so well..


Actually, its doing almost the same thing.


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## trog100 (Jun 11, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Sorry, that's not what's happening, go look at the trends. 30day, 3 month and 1 year show a different situation.
> 
> 
> Actually, its doing almost the same thing.



i am looking a bit shorter term than you lex.. we can easily form different opinions..

bitcoin is showing slightly up on a 24 hour scale.. eth on the other hand is in the red by 3.6%..

the only thing that matters for me is whats happened since the last low.. i see the last low as a failed attempt at driving bitcoin down to 25K or so..

but eth has definitely  not recovered as well as bitcoin.. this is the opposite to what has been happening.. eth has always gained a little on bitcoin.. this recovery time it hasnt..

what happens next is still a bit of an unknown its too early to say....

trog

ps.. its worth noting i aint seeing what i want to see.. as a miner i want to see eth go up more.. i would like to see eth rocket and bitcoin stay where it is for a while.. that way my nicehash mining buys me more bitcoin..


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## Jack1n (Jun 11, 2021)

I love how people try to predict what will happen to bitcoin value when all it takes is Elon waking up on the other side of the bed that morning and to tweet about it while having his coffee. If you think something that volatile has a future in economics you are sorely mistaken.


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## trog100 (Jun 11, 2021)

Jack1n said:


> I love how people try to predict what will happen to bitcoin value when all it takes is Elon waking up on the other side of the bed that morning and to tweet about it while having his coffee. If you think something that volatile has a future in economics you are sorely mistaken.



elon and his tweets dosnt matter that much and as time passes he will matter even less..

there are not that many more bitcoin to be had.. things will have to stabilize in the end..

trog


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 11, 2021)

I have taken the liberty of creating a new general discussion thread to move discussions here to as we have gotten a bit off topic here.









						General Cryptocoin Discussion
					

As many threads seem to get side-tracked with general discussion about cryptocoin, we need a thread where discussion about the subject that can meander from any one aspect as the users need it too.  This is a general discussion about cryptocoin and all topics about this subject are welcome...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




That is a general discussion about cryptocoin and all topics about that subject are welcome.


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## Jism (Jun 11, 2021)

CPB-directeur: Nederland moet bitcoin en andere cryptovaluta verbieden
					

De ultieme stap is volgens Pieter Hasekamp een totaalverbod op productie, handel en bezit van cryptomunten.




					nos.nl
				




Dutch want a ban on crypto / btc in general. Good movement. Primarily due to the fact the amount of power BTC on it's own requires.


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## Outback Bronze (Jun 11, 2021)

Jism said:


> Dutch want a ban on crypto



 And on the other side of the fence..

More countries line up to make Bitcoin legal tender - which one will be next? - CityAM : CityAM


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## trog100 (Jun 11, 2021)

i have of kind moved threads without even knowing it.. he he

i will continue to post in both of them if possible..

trog


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## Jack1n (Jun 11, 2021)

trog100 said:


> elon and his tweets dosnt matter that much and as time passes he will matter even less..
> 
> there are not that many more bitcoin to be had.. things will have to stabilize in the end..
> 
> trog


His tweets do not matter that much? I guess wiping a third of crypto value in a single tweet is not such a big deal when crypto is already so volatile. And what exactly will change when all bitcoins have been mined? they will become less volatile for some reason? I doubt it.
The only reason crypto has any value to people is because you can trade it for Fiat.


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## Outback Bronze (Jun 11, 2021)

Jack1n said:


> wiping a third of crypto value



To be fair to Elon there as a lot of FUD going on at that particular time yeah.

The US was gona TAX it hard.

China hitting on more heavy restrictions.

And I dare say it was time for it to drop. It cant go up that rapid without repercussions. There were tell tales in the charts.


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## bogmali (Jun 11, 2021)

A lot of back and forth arguing that is not related to the topic going on, should this be closed?


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 11, 2021)

bogmali said:


> A lot of back and forth arguing that is not related to the topic going on, should this be closed?


That's why I created the other thread. Users have started migrating over there. But ultimately it's your call.

For those who may have missed it, we have a new General Cryptocoin Discussion thread that off-topic discussion should be moved too.








						General Cryptocoin Discussion
					

As many threads seem to get side-tracked with general discussion about cryptocoin, we need a thread where discussion about the subject that can meander from any one aspect as the users need it too.  This is a general discussion about cryptocoin and all topics about this subject are welcome...




					www.techpowerup.com


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## trog100 (Jun 11, 2021)

bogmali said:


> A lot of back and forth arguing that is not related to the topic going on, should this be closed?


 
do i detect some gamer negativity beginning to show.. he he

trog


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## R-T-B (Jun 11, 2021)

Jack1n said:


> I love how people try to predict what will happen to bitcoin value when all it takes is Elon waking up on the other side of the bed that morning and to tweet about it while having his coffee. If you think something that volatile has a future in economics you are sorely mistaken.


Sounds like the stock market to me.



bogmali said:


> A lot of back and forth arguing that is not related to the topic going on, should this be closed?


Maybe.  But we need a single price discussion thread somewhere.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 11, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Maybe. But we need a single price discussion thread somewhere.


We could do that and focus the topic on Cryptocoin prices and market trends. Shall I?


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## bogmali (Jun 11, 2021)

trog100 said:


> do i detect some gamer negativity beginning to show.. he he
> 
> trog



Not at all, just trying to keep the threads progressing without getting derailed, that's all


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## trog100 (Jun 11, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> We could do that and focus the topic on Cryptocoin prices and market trends. Shall I?


 
so how do you keep the "crypto needs to die" people out of it.. cos they are the problem and always have been..

trog


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 11, 2021)

trog100 said:


> so how do you keep the "crypto needs to die" people out of it.. cos they are the problem and always have been..


Comments like that aren't exactly welcoming, are they.

@bogmali 
Done, new thread created. 








						Cryptocoin Value and Market Trend Discussion
					

As this discussion topic keeps coming up in other threads it seemed wise to give this particular aspect of cryptocoins a thread to call home. The focus and scope of this thread is to track the values and market trends of cryptocoins of all varieties. Please limit discussion to that topic focus...




					www.techpowerup.com


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## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 11, 2021)

Why come into a thread about Bitcoin and its value if you think it is stupid or the people investing in it are stupid. I typically don't voice my opinion in threads I have no interest in or think are stupid. I mean unless you just want to try to appear superior or rile up people, whats the point? Also if you are offended that people have faith in crypto then maybe don't visit here because of course people that have invested in crypto have a stronger belief in its success than a non-investor. That doesn't make them stupid or you stupid, we just don't agree on cryptos value and that is fine.

If there  was a  thread on beaniebabies and their value I would just not participate.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 11, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Why come into a thread about Bitcoin and its value if you think it is stupid or the people investing in it are stupid. I typically don't voice my opinion in threads I have no interest in or think are stupid. I mean unless you just want to try to appear superior or rile up people, whats the point? Also if you are offended that people have faith in crypto then maybe don't visit here because of course people that have invested in crypto have a stronger belief in its success than a non-investor. That doesn't make them stupid or you stupid, we just don't agree on cryptos value and that is fine.
> 
> If there  was a  thread on beaniebabies and their value I would just not participate.


Who are talking to? This is why the quote function exists.


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## freeagent (Jun 11, 2021)

I find this all to be very interesting.. it’s just bad timing to get into gaming or mining right now if you are on a bit of a budget


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## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 11, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Who are talking to? This is why the quote function exists.



Man so many posts happened while typing that out lol, thought I was going to be right under them.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 11, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Man so many posts happened while typing that out lol, thought I was going to be right under them.


No worries. You can edit the post you're responding to in...


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## Liquid Cool (Jun 11, 2021)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Why come into a thread about Bitcoin and its value



Good afternoon....

I normally don't discuss the fundamental underpinnings of any markets(especially in public), because I am strictly a technical analyst and never use market fundamentals to determine whether to invest in something or not.  In fact...I believe they're worthless in determining value simply because the "herd" trades on belief and emotion.  Although...there is a small group of men who do study fundamentals diligently and can be handsomely rewarded for having done so...to not acknowledge the hardworking...is folly.  I tip my hat...

I wanted to respond to this comment from ZZZ on why I personally drop in to this thread now and again.  I do so to see commentary in regards to Bitcoin because I have had a lifelong fascination with market bubbles and their dynamics.  I've studied bubble economies since....well, for 40 years now.  Bitcoin et al. from my perspective is a financial mania and absolutely from day one has had zero value other than...."belief" of value.  The principle and primary ingredient for a bubble.  When viewing my charts...I believe this to be the largest bubble in recorded history.  Again...I will recommend reading Charles McKay's novel....Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds.

What concerns me as I'm watching the stock market peak(It will not pass it's May 10, 2021 high, or you can feel free to call me incorrect on the matter)...is the "second act".  It's the second act that most interested parties(especially in bitcoin) never seem to consider and having grown up in the backrooms of brokerage firms...I am absolutely certain there will be a second act.

Liquid...what do you mean by a "second act"?  I mean...the real reason for bitcoin hasn't quite stepped forward yet.  Again...from my perspective...those who hold bitcoin and other cryptos are crying freedom....where I see virtual slavery as the only end game. Complete regulation, taxation...and if the local currency is competed against. Just as in gold...confiscation. The rest of society ends up in a dystopian nightmare in the process...and bitcoin is what I would call...the introduction. Perhaps bitcoin is just an instrument of introduction to a new digital age of....well, whatever you want to call it is fine. I called it a dystopian nightmare because that is how I see it...quite clearly.

Step right up, step right up and see this amazing new gizmo gadget you can wow your friends with.  You sir...yes you. Let me familiarize you with our new digital currency...check out this fancy new crypto called...Bitcoin.  It will be the talk of the town.  Step right up step right up folks...be amazed and wondered at this new techology.

It's been bought....hook, line, and sinker.

Best Regards,

Liquid Cool


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