# Looking for best music/gaming headset for $100



## johnspack (May 14, 2011)

I simply don't have the funds for a $300 set,  and I'm sick of my really cheap headphones and mic.  I use them a lot,  and I like to listen to music.  I know a $100 headset will still suck at music,  but it will be miles better than what I have.  I do a lot of online flying in my rof sim,  so mic is important as well.  I'd like thx/dolby support for games.  I'm stuck with ncix.com Canada,  and my first 2 picks are:

I would really like something like this,  but it's expensive for me,  it is worth it?
http://ncix.com/products/index.php?...manufacture=Turtle Beach Systems&promoid=1026

Otherwise I'd save some food money,  and go with this:
http://ncix.com/products/index.php?...000002&manufacture=Creative Labs&promoid=1026

Remember my budget,  I don't really want to spend $100+,  but if they work.....

If there's anything on ncix for $100-$150 that would be better for both gaming and music,  I'm all ears.


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## FordGT90Concept (May 14, 2011)

Recently got these after mine broke and they're pretty good:
http://ncix.com/products/?sku=37191&vpn=RZ04-00270100-R3U1&manufacture=Razer


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## johnspack (May 14, 2011)

Ah,  yes,  I heard they were good,  thanks!


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## johnspack (May 14, 2011)

So does anyone think being able to use my digital out from my titanium to the turtle beaches at 48khz ect might not give me slightly better quality?


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## FordGT90Concept (May 14, 2011)

Generally speaking, analog audio sounds better than digital.  It also reduces the complexity of the speakers/headphones themselves because they don't need digital decoders.

The only advantage of digital is they can get more than one discreet audio signal in a cable.  As such, they really only have an advantage in surround sound speakers but still, the quality is inferior.


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## johnspack (May 14, 2011)

Really?  So I should just get the Razers?
What about that Creative Labs set?
Edit:  okay,  I'm probably duhhh.. I'll get the Razers.


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## Conti027 (May 14, 2011)

The Creative alphas are awesome. Work really well. I'd go with thos or the Creative Sigma if you want a little better.


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## johnspack (May 14, 2011)

Arrrg,  now I know that.....
I can only get the Alphas,  but they sure look interesting.


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## Conti027 (May 14, 2011)

how about at Amazon someone has them for 46.50 and might ship to Canada


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## johnspack (May 14, 2011)

Too much trouble,  I'll just get the Razers from ncix...
Edit:  thanks for helping out guys!!


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## Conti027 (May 14, 2011)

I'd say go for the Sigmas they are cheaper then the razers and awesome!
http://ncix.com/products/?sku=59170&vpn=70GH014000003&manufacture=Creative Labs
awesome comes with some neat software


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## johnspack (May 14, 2011)

So these are better?:

http://ncix.com/products/?sku=59170&vpn=70GH014000003&manufacture=Creative Labs
Specs seem identical,  but if you know these are better,  10 bucks cheaper too!
Edit:  320 ohms,  good thing I have an amp.....


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## DanishDevil (May 14, 2011)

Hey johnspack, if you could find a paid of Sennheiser PC 350s that would be ideal. I got lucky and snagged mine for $140 a little while back, but it's hard to find them at that price. If you get lucky, you'll be extremely happy with them.


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## johnspack (May 14, 2011)

At half the poverty level,  they are way over my budget:   http://ncix.com/products/?sku=29043&vpn=PC350&manufacture=Sennheiser Electronics


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## BumbleBee (May 14, 2011)

Sennheiser PC360 are a good choice. only thing I don't like is the microphone because it's large and can't be removed but other than that it's the only headset out of six I own that reproduces both music and games well.


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## johnspack (May 14, 2011)

I could do:   http://ncix.com/products/?sku=58997&vpn=504119&manufacture=Sennheiser Electronics
Edit:  I think the 230s for now... until I can afford better.


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## BumbleBee (May 14, 2011)

johnspack said:


> I could do:   http://ncix.com/products/?sku=58997&vpn=504119&manufacture=Sennheiser Electronics



take a look here before you decide.


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## johnspack (May 14, 2011)

I forgot,  no on the ear headphones,  I don't want them.  The Razors are still best.


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## johnspack (May 14, 2011)

http://ncix.com/products/?sku=56205&vpn=TBS-2133&manufacture=Turtle Beach Systems
This isn't cool for the price?


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## BumbleBee (May 14, 2011)

nope lol


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## johnspack (May 14, 2011)

Well,  guess all I'm left with are the Razors.
http://ncix.com/products/?sku=37191&vpn=RZ04-00270100-R3U1&manufacture=Razer
I'll order them Wed morning...


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## BumbleBee (May 14, 2011)

johnspack said:


> Well,  guess all I'm left with are the Razors.



your not even looking at the right retailers. HiFi retailers will have models you can demo. I recommend seeing what is available to you locally. premium products demand premium prices.


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## johnspack (May 14, 2011)

I live in a small town, in the middle of nowhere,  in eastern BC Canada.  Ncix is it for me!


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## BumbleBee (May 14, 2011)

if there are no HiFi retailers available to you locally then I recommend you increase your budget and order something that comes highly recommended. I don't recommend any Turtle Beach products lol


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## Enmity (May 14, 2011)

I was recently in the same situation as you - i was only on onboard sound so i decided to go with a xonar DG (cheap yet effective soundcard)  and after A LOT of thinking, recommending and research i moved away from the gaming headset scene as so many people kept talking about it, so instead of going for a siberia v2 I went with the Sennheiser HD485's - I have never in my life been so pleased with the quality of sound I now have, but also the comfort! - I have a friend with the steel series siberia v2 which i was going to buy...i've gotta say the senns are far superior in both games and music  they just dont have a mic. But again, most people prefer a desk mounted mic anyway.

I paid about the same price for the 485's that i would have spent on the siberia v2. that was my experience and i've never been happier.


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## Conti027 (May 14, 2011)

I agree stay away form turd beach. (see that I made a funny)


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## ViperLancer (May 14, 2011)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Generally speaking, analog audio sounds better than digital.  It also reduces the complexity of the speakers/headphones themselves because they don't need digital decoders.
> 
> The only advantage of digital is they can get more than one discreet audio signal in a cable.  As such, they really only have an advantage in surround sound speakers but still, the quality is inferior.


Actually, I would say digital provides better sound quality. Why do you think Dolby digital replaced Dolby Pro Logic?
In my personal testing, digital audio connections don't suffer nearly as much from signal degradation. They provide much cleaner signals, have less static/interference issues, and don't suffer from loss of signal strength (read: loss of volume).
For instance, if I hook my iPod up to my car stereo via its digital connection, sound quality & volume are excellent. If I hook it up to my stereo using RCA (analog) cables, the volume is a bit lower and, though not by much, the quality sounds a bit worse.
However, it would complicate a headset that directly supports digital audio. I'd hate having to plug it into both audio AND USB ports, and therefore having an extra cable flopping around. If that doesn't bother you, go digital. Otherwise, stick with analog.


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## FordGT90Concept (May 14, 2011)

ViperLancer said:


> Why do you think Dolby digital replaced Dolby Pro Logic?


Because of HDMI.  Virtually all high-end speakers are still driven by an analog signal because one can pump a ton of power (read: amplified) through a 12 guage speaker wire.  Sending a digital signal to 8 different speakers with different amplifiers makes absolutely no sense (not to mention, require external power sources).




ViperLancer said:


> For instance, if I hook my iPod up to my car stereo via its digital connection, sound quality & volume are excellent. If I hook it up to my stereo using RCA (analog) cables, the volume is a bit lower and, though not by much, the quality sounds a bit worse.


That's the iPod to blame.  Apple was pushing all-digital (so they can sell you an expensive set of Apple-branded ear plugs) so they pretty much ignored the analog end of things.


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## ViperLancer (May 14, 2011)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Because of HDMI.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the iPod to blame.  Apple was pushing all-digital (so they can sell you an expensive set of Apple-branded ear plugs) so they pretty much ignored the analog end of things.


Dolby Digital hit the market long before HDMI, so no.
And it isn't the iPod to blame, as I have tried it with several devices. I used to have a Dell DJ (read: Dell ripping off iPod), and it had the same lower volume/quality with my stereo. I just couldn't go digital with it (and it only held 30GB, and was dropped by Dell, and nobody supported it, and...), so I replaced it. Much better quality now. But I knew it would be as I had compared the DJ (analog) to a simple flash drive (digital) plugged into my stereo, and it sounded better/louder.
Also, as I said, the analog headphones I use have great quality used with my iPod. Sounds as good as my PC/headphones. But that's comparing analog to analog. When I can compare analog to digital, digital wins.
Digital signals win because if the information gets there, it gets there without loss. A digital signal can lose signal strength, be read at the other end, and produce the identical signal it was sent out with in both volume and quality. An analog signal loses volume when losing its strength, and loses quality when you amplify the receiving end to compensate.
Digital signals also win because of being able to carry more data over their media (as in fiber-optic), and carry multiple discreet channels, as GT90 mentioned.

Though I certainly won't argue the bit about Apple pushing ANYTHING so they can sell you more, or more expensive, stuff. I was reluctant to buy an iPod, but since so many car stereos support them (including mine), it was the best choice for me.
However, do you really think Apple would IGNORE the analog side of an iPod? That's 90% of how it's used! If they ignored that, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot by pissing off all the people buying them.


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## Fourstaff (May 14, 2011)

Clip on mic y/n? Head-fi.org? Steelseries Siberia V2?


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## ViperLancer (May 14, 2011)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Because of HDMI.  Virtually all high-end speakers are still driven by an analog signal because one can pump a ton of power (read: amplified) through a 12 guage speaker wire.  Sending a digital signal to 8 different speakers with different amplifiers makes absolutely no sense (not to mention, require external power sources).
> 
> 
> 
> That's the iPod to blame.  Apple was pushing all-digital (so they can sell you an expensive set of Apple-branded ear plugs) so they pretty much ignored the analog end of things.


Yes, speakers themselves do use analog for the reason you stated. Because if they were digital, each would need power fed to it as well as the digital audio signal. It would make the speakers far more complex, even if they fed power & audio signal over a single cable to each.
BUT, digital signal to the receiver is a whole different story! A single fiber-optic digital signal can easily send enough data for all channels of any current surround-sound system, but analog would require how many wires? Great benefit there, but...
The digital signal again suffers no volume/quality loss, where an analog signal will.


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## FordGT90Concept (May 14, 2011)

We're talking computers.  Computers, in most cases, are the receiver.  My computer sends a finished signal to my headphones (Razer Characias) and my speakers (Klipsch ProMedia Ultra 5.1).  There's no volume nor quality loss because we're talking a maximum of 6' of cable.  Yes, there's three cables going to my subwoofer (R/L, rear R/L, C/S) and two to my headset (R/L, mic) and it never bothered me.  It's getting signal processing by a HT Omega Striker which is infinitely better than the rubbish <$10 digital decoder (lacking amplifier) most digital systems have.

This "volume/quality" loss is completely subjective.  An analog and digital decoder can be set up to match in volume.  Apple/Dell didn't take the time to do that.  That's not a fault of the medium, but the manufacturer.

As for quality, the nuiances of a studio recording are lost the moment they record it in digital.  Decoding is all about trying to rebuild those nuiances from nothing (this is what Dolby technologies are all about).  Again, completely depends on the quality of components used.


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## Ra97oR (May 14, 2011)

ViperLancer, I would like you to just stop posting misinformation and generally making a fool of yourself.

First, Dolby Digital NEVER replaced Dolby Pro Logic, Pro Logic II/IIx/IIZ (improved Pro Logic that we use nowadays) is higher quality than Dolby Digital.  Where Dolby TrueHD (lossless multi channel audio used in some Blu-ray release) uses Pro Logic II as a decoder. In short, they are two different things and THEY ARE BOTH DIGITAL.

Secondly, iPod connection. Where you said you used a digital connection and an analogue connection. The digital connection, if done correctly will take the digital signal from the iPod bypassing its internal DAC to a different DAC. You are not listening to the iPod, you are listening to a different device. (< Which I doubt you actually have that, as there is only a handful of devices takes the digital signal from an iPod). The analogue signal, which I assume you do not have line-out dock. You took the signal from iPod's headphones plug, which uses iPod's headphone amp, which is crap. Or you can have a line-out dock, connected to iPod's dock connector, it takes line-level signal from iPod's DAC and bypasses the crappy headphone amp on board. It will provide much cleaner sound then double amping a signal. (< The Line-Out dock is what I think you mean by your "digital" signal)

Thirdly, digital speakers/headphones will always be poor compared to a good setup with analogue speakers/headphones. You simply cannot fit a high-end DAC and class-A amp inside a digital speakers/headphones, they might sound better than onboard sound, but with a decent DAC/amp combo, it is not likely to be close.

I could go on, but I guess you got the idea.


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## Play3r (May 14, 2011)

Steelseries Siberia V2 is quite good for on the cheap


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## Ra97oR (May 14, 2011)

Back on topic, sorry that I do not have much experience on the lower end market. I do suggest you stay away from PC headsets and get a pair of good headphones and a mic.

Audio Technica ATH-AD700 should be within your budget, although its not on NCIX. Its a great pair of headphones which exceed my expectation, that sound quality at that price, its a bargain.


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## Frederik S (May 14, 2011)

The AD700s are probably the best you can get. Just get a decent clip-on mic and you are ready to play.


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## MoonPig (May 14, 2011)

Roccat Kave's


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## johnspack (May 15, 2011)

Well,  I could go for these then:  http://ncix.com/products/?sku=51482&vpn=HD428&manufacture=Sennheiser Electronics    but not sure if there's any point.  I'll probably just get the Razers for now as they'll still sound better than my $30 headphones.  From what I'm seeing,  I need to spend $250-$300 for a good set,  and that looks like a i7 cpu to me!


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## AKlass (May 15, 2011)

ra97or said:


> back on topic, sorry that i do not have much experience on the lower end market. I do suggest you stay away from pc headsets and get a pair of good headphones and a mic.
> 
> Audio technica ath-ad700 should be within your budget, although its not on ncix. Its a great pair of headphones which exceed my expectation, that sound quality at that price, its a bargain.





frederik s said:


> the ad700s are probably the best you can get. Just get a decent clip-on mic and you are ready to play.



+1!


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## johnspack (May 19, 2011)

Well,  from the reviews I've seen,  these equal mid-range hi-fi sets,  but are made for gaming,  so not made for music.   The mic is adjustable for background noise for clarity in online team playing,  which is a huge plus for me.   http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=37191&vpn=RZ04-00270100-R3U1&manufacture=Razer
I ordered them today,  and will test them out and give a review when I get them.  Apparently for the $100 range,  these kick butt.   Now I can worry about $300 hi-fi headphones!.....


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## johnspack (May 19, 2011)

Oh,  and if I win the lottery,  this is what I'm ordering:

http://ncix.com/products/?sku=38026&vpn=HD800&manufacture=Sennheiser Electronics


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## Wile E (May 19, 2011)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Generally speaking, analog audio sounds better than digital.  It also reduces the complexity of the speakers/headphones themselves because they don't need digital decoders.
> 
> The only advantage of digital is they can get more than one discreet audio signal in a cable.  As such, they really only have an advantage in surround sound speakers but still, the quality is inferior.



That's not exactly true. The quality is inferior to a good sound card, sure, but it is not always inferior to on-board. Depends strictly on the headset.


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## johnspack (May 19, 2011)

The Razers and my Titanium should sound not too bad....


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## Wile E (May 19, 2011)

The Razers sound like shit. Trust me, I tried.

I would send them back, and go for AD700's or Grado SR80i's if Open Back is OK, or Senn HD280 Pros for closed cans.


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## Fourstaff (May 19, 2011)

+1 for Razer sounding like shit. Not that they are complete shit, but for their price better options can be found.


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## CrAsHnBuRnXp (May 19, 2011)

PLANTRONICS GameCom 377 Open-ear 3.5mm Circumaural...

Best headphones I have ever owned. There is a $99.99 version its the 777. Not sure the difference between the two.


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## Zen_ (May 19, 2011)

Wile E said:


> The Razers sound like shit. Trust me, I tried.
> 
> I would send them back, and go for AD700's or Grado SR80i's if Open Back is OK, or Senn HD280 Pros for closed cans.



+1

I'd go for AD700's if you can live without monster bass. They are a tremendous pair of headphones for gaming and ridiculously comfortable. The Audio Technica M50s are also a good choice if you want good bass and / or a sealed design. Fair warning though, if you use them a lot the pads harden up and become uncomfortable.

Personally I have never understood headsets all together. Almost invariably you get an inferior set of headphones with a microphone that can be easy to break off. Just get a nice pair of headphones and the Logitech noise canceling pedestal mic .


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## johnspack (May 20, 2011)

For headphones,  I'm going to get the HD280 Pros.   I need a headset for now,  these will do.


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## HammerON (May 20, 2011)

AKlass said:


> +1!





Zen_ said:


> +1
> 
> I'd go for AD700's if you can live without monster bass. They are a tremendous pair of headphones for gaming and ridiculously comfortable. The Audio Technica M50s are also a good choice if you want good bass and / or a sealed design. Fair warning though, if you use them a lot the pads harden up and become uncomfortable.
> 
> Personally I have never understood headsets all together. Almost invariably you get an inferior set of headphones with a microphone that can be easy to break off. Just get a nice pair of headphones and the Logitech noise canceling pedestal mic .



I have the Audio Technica AD700 and I love them for gaming and music. They do lack a little in the bass but they are comfortable for long gaming sessions and they do sound pretty good when listening to music. Not the best by far, but in the price range I am really happy with them.


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## Ra97oR (May 20, 2011)

johnspack said:


> For headphones,  I'm going to get the HD280 Pros.   I need a headset for now,  these will do.



Seriously? HD280Pro? They are the most painful thing I have wore and have seriously lacking sound.


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## Widjaja (May 20, 2011)

HD202s are fine with me.
Good for someone who enjoys bass over the rest of the sound.


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## DanishDevil (May 20, 2011)

The HD 280 Pros sound pretty damn good to me. Maybe you're used to serious Hi-Fi stuff. I do agree a bit on the uncomfortable comment. They squeeze my head a little more than I would like. I find myself using my PC 350 more often than the HD 280 Pros even for music because I can wear them for 12 hours without any discomfort.


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## Wile E (May 20, 2011)

Ra97oR said:


> Seriously? HD280Pro? They are the most painful thing I have wore and have seriously lacking sound.



Better than a $100 headset, and hard to beat for closed cans in the price range.


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## Ra97oR (May 21, 2011)

Wile E said:


> Better than a $100 headset, and hard to beat for closed cans in the price range.



I can think of around 5 or more pair of headphones that sounds far better than it at the same price or less. WS70, M50, DT770, D1100, D1001/CAL!, SRH840... Don't forget the HD25s too.


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## Widjaja (May 21, 2011)

I have hear of certain sennheiser headsets being too small for some domes so it maybe something to take into consideration


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## Fourstaff (May 21, 2011)

Found what I was looking for the past few days: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread...hone-gaming-particularly-with-dolby-headphone


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## johnspack (May 22, 2011)

I don't like over the ear,  so most seins are out of the picture.  And I do think the hd280s should sound good.  Remember,  I have very limited choices being in a small town in western Canada.  At least the Razers use Neodynimium magnets....  my first entry level audiophile set...  I so would love a set of real hi-fi headphones,  but I have to live on about $500 a month after rent.  I can only dream.....


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## johnspack (May 22, 2011)

I need to rob a bank... I want these...

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=36764&vpn=HD280PRO&manufacture=Sennheiser Electronics


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## Fourstaff (May 22, 2011)

johnspack said:


> I don't like over the ear,  so most seins are out of the picture.  And I do think the hd280s should sound good.  Remember,  I have very limited choices being in a small town in western Canada.  At least the Razers use Neodynimium magnets....  my first entry level audiophile set...  I so would love a set of real hi-fi headphones,  but I have to live on about $500 a month after rent.  I can only dream.....



Have you seen the list?


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## Wile E (May 22, 2011)

Ra97oR said:


> I can think of around 5 or more pair of headphones that sounds far better than it at the same price or less. WS70, M50, DT770, D1100, D1001/CAL!, SRH840... Don't forget the HD25s too.



All of those, except maybe the Denons, are significantly more expensive. I did overlook the Denons, but I never heard them, so don't know how they compare to the 280's. I know for the $90-100 range closed back headphones, they are a good choice.



johnspack said:


> I don't like over the ear,  so most seins are out of the picture.  And I do think the hd280s should sound good.  Remember,  I have very limited choices being in a small town in western Canada.  At least the Razers use Neodynimium magnets....  my first entry level audiophile set...  I so would love a set of real hi-fi headphones,  but I have to live on about $500 a month after rent.  I can only dream.....



They aren't audiophile. Neodynium magnets does not automatically equal audiophile, or even mean that they are good.

Trust me, the Razers are poop, ESPECIALLY compared to the other options given to you in this thread.


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## Ra97oR (May 22, 2011)

The Denons at least have a reasonable soundstage which is very important for gaming. The ES70 is cheaper and have better sound than the HD280Pros and the D1001 too. I did game with them all for a bit, the SRH840 have the best positioning out of them brunch, but also the most expensive. I would never recommend the HD280Pro in my whole life unless all other headphones have been killed off or something. Seeing that stuff you sell in Canada is totally overpriced on that site, why not try Amazoning a pair of Creative Aurva Live! ? They are cheaper, more comfortable, have a far better soundstage and sounds more natural than the HD280Pro. Unless you really hate bass, I see no reason why not.


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## ViperLancer (May 22, 2011)

Ra97oR said:


> ViperLancer, I would like you to just stop posting misinformation and generally making a fool of yourself.
> 
> First, Dolby Digital NEVER replaced Dolby Pro Logic, Pro Logic II/IIx/IIZ (improved Pro Logic that we use nowadays) is higher quality than Dolby Digital.  Where Dolby TrueHD (lossless multi channel audio used in some Blu-ray release) uses Pro Logic II as a decoder. In short, they are two different things and THEY ARE BOTH DIGITAL.
> 
> ...


Making a fool of myself? Posting misinformation? Stop posting? Well, I agree with one of those. With someone like you on this forum, I won't bother coming back. I have no need to prove myself to you, or prove what I know, but I do hope people actually do their own research on the subject.

Yes, Dolby Pro Logic is still around & has been improved. In all my research (including Dolby's site), I've never read it was digital. Further, it uses STEREO channels to SIMULATE surround. It isn't true surround sound. Thereby, yes Dolby Digital is better. Pro Logic is used only for mediums that can't or would be difficult to support Digital.

Heh, I say I don't need to prove myself & yet here I am. That's all I'll bother saying. Goodbye forum!


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## ViperLancer (May 22, 2011)

FordGT90Concept said:


> We're talking computers.  Computers, in most cases, are the receiver.  My computer sends a finished signal to my headphones (Razer Characias) and my speakers (Klipsch ProMedia Ultra 5.1).  There's no volume nor quality loss because we're talking a maximum of 6' of cable.  Yes, there's three cables going to my subwoofer (R/L, rear R/L, C/S) and two to my headset (R/L, mic) and it never bothered me.  It's getting signal processing by a HT Omega Striker which is infinitely better than the rubbish <$10 digital decoder (lacking amplifier) most digital systems have.
> 
> This "volume/quality" loss is completely subjective.  An analog and digital decoder can be set up to match in volume.  Apple/Dell didn't take the time to do that.  That's not a fault of the medium, but the manufacturer.
> 
> As for quality, the nuiances of a studio recording are lost the moment they record it in digital.  Decoding is all about trying to rebuild those nuiances from nothing (this is what Dolby technologies are all about).  Again, completely depends on the quality of components used.


Ah, I do want to add two things.
1 - I don't run sound directly from my PC, I run it through my stereo system. Oddly enough, almost the same speakers you run, but mine is a full Klipsch system with a receiver. Other than the standard analog audio connections on the receiver being a bit soft & somewhat loose, it's a decent system.
2 - Really this is something that's a matter of opinion. In the end, it's up to each person to investigate for themself. Don't simply take somebody else's word for it, go read what the companies say about their stuff, go try things in person, etc. I feel digital is better due to my own investigations (not only the ones I've posted, they were just the easiest). Most people think analog is better. Find out for yourself.


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## Fourstaff (May 22, 2011)

Why do we need to care about digital and analog at such a low budget level? As far as I can tell, equipment costing less than about $200 will not be able to show the difference between the two. If OP has the money to fund a mid to high end setup, then the argument is justifiable. but as of now, OP wants something which does good bang for buck, not that extra mile.


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## Wile E (May 23, 2011)

Ra97oR said:


> The Denons at least have a reasonable soundstage which is very important for gaming. The ES70 is cheaper and have better sound than the HD280Pros and the D1001 too. I did game with them all for a bit, the SRH840 have the best positioning out of them brunch, but also the most expensive. I would never recommend the HD280Pro in my whole life unless all other headphones have been killed off or something. Seeing that stuff you sell in Canada is totally overpriced on that site, why not try Amazoning a pair of Creative Aurva Live! ? They are cheaper, more comfortable, have a far better soundstage and sounds more natural than the HD280Pro. Unless you really hate bass, I see no reason why not.



I don't find sound stage nearly as important as accuracy. I prefer analytical over a good sound stage for gaming and music both, any day.


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## johnspack (May 24, 2011)

Listening to music right now on my Razers,  using my titanium and putting it through my 10 band hardware eq,  then through my JVC rx-5000v a/v amp,  sounds really not bad!  For sure blows away my el cheapo sonys.  The sound is quite clean,  and the bass is okay.  I still think they blow away anything else for the price.


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## Fourstaff (May 24, 2011)

So you got Razer after all 

Going to kill a kitten, brb


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## johnspack (May 24, 2011)

Don't worry,  once I figure out how to get myself a 2600k system,  I'll think about dropping $300 for a nice set of headphones!  Prices are stupid up here,  and pretty much anything on ebay won't ship to Canada.  Sucks.


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## Fourstaff (May 24, 2011)

johnspack said:


> Don't worry,  once I figure out how to get myself a 2600k system,  I'll think about dropping $300 for a nice set of headphones!  Prices are stupid up here,  and pretty much anything on ebay won't ship to Canada.  Sucks.



No need to buy yourself crapware to tide yourself over. Get something decent in first go as not to waste your money. That is from experience.


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## johnspack (May 24, 2011)

They cost me $80,  and through my equipment,  sound pretty darn good.  Plus,  I needed a dedicated headset for my online flying.  I don't really need high end audiophile headphones for that.  When I do get a headphone set for music,  I expect to hunt down a used set of $300+ audiophile headphones.  No point in buying crap!  But with my budget,  it takes a bit more work.  I only live on $500 a month,  so even saving $300 just for a set of headphones is a bit ridiculous.  I need to eat... and buy other computer parts.  I'll look for a good used set for like $150-200,  I'm sure I could find that.


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## Fourstaff (May 24, 2011)

In which case you should have gone for something with good bang for buck, but Razer is not exactly bang for buck either. Something along the lines of Creative HS800 (what I use right now for gaming) or Steelseries Siberia V2 would give you more for your money. Ah well, too late now. The important thing right now is you enjoy your purchase, and from the sounds of it you do. Hence no need to ugprade in the future (until your Razer breaks, that is. Which will be pretty soon from what I hear)


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## johnspack (May 25, 2011)

Can't get HS800 here,  and did think about the v2s.  Don't really think they are any better than the carcharias,  but if you say they are,  then fine.  Could've spent 20 bucks more for a slightly better set of low end phones.  Oh well.  I'm still considering the hd280s,  and yes I know they're crap,  but all I can get here.  Lovely living in a tiny town in the middle of nowhere!


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## Cybrnook (May 25, 2011)

I might be a little late to the party, but if your not worried about a microphone - the Sennheiser HD 280 Pro's are a BEAUTIFUL set of headphones for about $100.


EDIT: See you already bought Razers.....oh well.....


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## johnspack (May 25, 2011)

The hd280s are not 100 bucks:  http://ncix.com/products/?sku=36764&vpn=HD280PRO&manufacture=Sennheiser Electronics
is what I'll have to pay,  but even for that price,  probably not bad,  and if I wait another month,  I could actually afford them.


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## DanishDevil (May 25, 2011)

Wait until you have enough for these if you want a mic as well:

http://ncix.com/products/?sku=29043&vpn=PC350&manufacture=Sennheiser Electronics

Leaps and bounds better comfort-wise than the 280's (I own both). 280s still sound better for music, but I find myself exclusively using the 350s because of their comfort.


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## johnspack (May 25, 2011)

Hmm, are they better enough than the 280s to warrant the extra expense?  I'm still preferring my desktop mic...  I may have made a mistake.. dam.  Didn't realize these had both connectors at one end,  and I plug the mic in my computer,  and the sound into my amp,  and with only 2 inches of reach...  so now I have to buy an extension cable.  So currently,  still using my old mic,  dam.


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## DanishDevil (May 25, 2011)

The PC 350 has only a few inches of split between the two as well. Also, be sure to get a STEREO extension cable. I got one that didn't say stereo on it, and it was mono (for shame that they would even make it anymore). Comfort-wise, I won't wear my 280's for longer than 30mins before I go running back to my 350s, even if they don't sound quite as good for music. I actually haven't touched my 280s in 6 months. Holding onto them for when I finally pick up the electric guitar I bought almost a year ago


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## Cybrnook (May 25, 2011)

I still stick by the 280's. You have to adjust them correctly to your head as they are pressure fit due to having passive noise cancellation (35db), but I wear them for hours at a time and have no side effects. 

I apologize for advertising them as $100, here in the states they are much cheaper:
http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD-280-Pro-Headphones/dp/B000065BPB/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306292214&sr=8-1

I searched for about 2 weeks to find the right set, at the end it came down to the Bose on ear, Bose over ear QC 15's (Both with active NC), and the Sennhesier HD 280's (Passive NC). For the price and bang for buck, the sennheiser's I feel have a better sound than the Bose, due to the Bose clipping due to active NC, and they were 1/3 the price.

Good luck with whatever you pick.


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## Wile E (May 25, 2011)

johnspack said:


> Hmm, are they better enough than the 280s to warrant the extra expense?  I'm still preferring my desktop mic...  I may have made a mistake.. dam.  Didn't realize these had both connectors at one end,  and I plug the mic in my computer,  and the sound into my amp,  and with only 2 inches of reach...  so now I have to buy an extension cable.  So currently,  still using my old mic,  dam.



Just send them back, pay the restocking fee, and grab a decent pair of headphones instead.



Cybrnook said:


> I still stick by the 280's. You have to adjust them correctly to your head as they are pressure fit due to having passive noise cancellation (35db), but I wear them for hours at a time and have no side effects.
> 
> I apologize for advertising them as $100, here in the states they are much cheaper:
> http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD-280-Pro-Headphones/dp/B000065BPB/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306292214&sr=8-1
> ...


To be fair, that doesn't say much. Bose makes shitty products. Their $300 headphones are, in reality, worth probably $40 tops. Only suckers buy them.


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## Cybrnook (May 25, 2011)

Wile E said:


> Just send them back, pay the restocking fee, and grab a decent pair of headphones instead.
> 
> To be fair, that doesn't say much. Bose makes shitty products. Their $300 headphones are, in reality, worth probably $40 tops. Only suckers buy them.



Well, to reiterate my thought I ended up wit the Sennheisers ;-) I agree with Bose products being quite overpriced, HOWEVER, quite a bit of the products they make are very high quality and do reproduce great sound. But what really turned me off to them (outside of the $300 pricetag) was the fact that they would clip at times when the active noice canceling speaker was working. I dont mind speanding a good deal of Moolah on a quality product, such as headphones as they are an invesment. In this particular case the HD 280's won Hands down.

Sorry for ranting----


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## Wile E (May 25, 2011)

Cybrnook said:


> Well, to reiterate my thought I ended up wit the Sennheisers ;-) I agree with Bose products being quite overpriced, HOWEVER, *quite a bit of the products they make are very high quality and do reproduce great sound.* But what really turned me off to them (outside of the $300 pricetag) was the fact that they would clip at times when the active noice canceling speaker was working. I dont mind speanding a good deal of Moolah on a quality product, such as headphones as they are an invesment. In this particular case the HD 280's won Hands down.
> 
> Sorry for ranting----


No, this is not the case AT ALL. All of their products are low quality, and just made to fit an image.

http://www.firstadopter.com/fa/archives/001749.html


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## Ra97oR (May 25, 2011)

Wile E said:


> I don't find sound stage nearly as important as accuracy. I prefer analytical over a good sound stage for gaming and music both, any day.



When I refer to soundstaging, I referring it to both the soundstage position, accuracy and size. If you have heard the phones I listed, I doubt you will still think the HD280Pro is superior. 

Well, anyway he just go ahead and bought a Razer anyway. It seems he don't need advises afterall.



Wile E said:


> No, this is not the case AT ALL. All of their products are low quality, and just made to fit an image.
> 
> http://www.firstadopter.com/fa/archives/001749.html



Bose is not high quality. If you have actually used some competitors' product at the same price range, you will now they are terrible. They sounds terrible too. None of my headphones are cheaper than Bose, they are nearly costly 3 times as much as their flagship. Price is not a good argument, but what you get with your cash gone and that false marketing is just giving it a bad name.

I am still not sure why people are recommending HD280Pros, they are hands down the most uncomfortable pair of headphones I have wore and the sound is one of the worst in the price range. There are so many other choices far better than it. I hope people recommending HD280Pro have heard something else other than them.


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## Cybrnook (May 25, 2011)

Wile E said:


> No, this is not the case AT ALL. All of their products are low quality, and just made to fit an image.
> 
> http://www.firstadopter.com/fa/archives/001749.html



Well, im pulling out after this one, but again, that is one persons toughts on bose as a whole dated 5 years ago. So it is to be taken with a grain of salt, as is anyones personal thoughts.

Again, I have not recommended any Bose product ;-) and am not trying to hijack the tread in a debate whether Bose is good or not. HD 280's are my recommendation!


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## Wile E (May 25, 2011)

Ra97oR said:


> When I refer to soundstaging, I referring it to both the soundstage position, accuracy and size. If you have heard the phones I listed, I doubt you will still think the HD280Pro is superior.
> 
> Well, anyway he just go ahead and bought a Razer anyway. It seems he don't need advises afterall.



How can you justify soundstage accuracy? You would have to compare it to the exact setup your source was final mixed on.

I'll happily sacrifice that for more accurate response, attack and decay. And I have heard plenty in the $80-100 range when we were hunting for monitors, and not many other closed cans do as well. Lots of open cans are better, but not many closed ones, but the open one don't block enough outside noise.


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## Ra97oR (May 25, 2011)

Most if not all the listening is done on my portable setup via line out. Soundstage accuracy is very easy to point out playing any mastered music. Where they tends to place different sound sources around the soundstage, if you can pin point sources it have a reasonable accuracy for a start. Then there is where live music comes in, it can be used to judge how it is representing a soundstage, it is overly small or too big? Where accurate response, attack and decay, they are not important for music listening, it is matter of taste there. OP is asking for headphones for listening, not mastering or mixing (not that you should master only using headphones anyway)

The name Sennheiser automatically links the headphones with quality, IMO its not right. HD25-II and HD600 does sounds good, but not their HD800 or others.


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## Wile E (May 25, 2011)

Ra97oR said:


> Most if not all the listening is done on my portable setup via line out. Soundstage accuracy is very easy to point out playing any mastered music. Where they tends to place different sound sources around the soundstage, if you can pin point sources it have a reasonable accuracy for a start. Then there is where live music comes in, it can be used to judge how it is representing a soundstage, it is overly small or too big? Where accurate response, attack and decay, they are not important for music listening, it is matter of taste there. OP is asking for headphones for listening, not mastering or mixing (not that you should master only using headphones anyway)
> 
> The name Sennheiser automatically links the headphones with quality, IMO its not right. HD25-II and HD600 does sounds good, but not much as their HD800 or others.



This is where you are wrong. First, you cannot quantify the sound stage accuracy. It is pure preference and completely subjective. It even changes from the same headphones between different listeners.

Second, better sound stage does not mean it's better for listening vs something along the lines of what I selct. Again, matter of preference. He may be the same, or he may not, but there is only one way for him to find out.

What isn't a matter of preference is frequency, attack, and decay accuracy. Those are measurable differences. 

You say the 280's suck because of sound stage. I say you are wrong, and that sound stage is of less importance than playback accuracy. Which style he prefers is entirely up to him. I prefer accuracy over soundstage for ALL headphone uses. Now, the best of both worlds is even better. I have my Grado 225i's for that, but my portable setup is through a set of RE0's. They notoriously lack warmth and soundstage, but are very accurate, just the way I like it.

And we don't only mix on cans, btw.


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## Ra97oR (May 25, 2011)

If a pair of headphones can reproduce a soundstage similar to the original live recording, that is 

FR curve, square wave response and such are numbers that does not add up to raw real world performance. My A2000X and AD1000PRM might as well have one of the fastest response on a dynamic headphones, but does it automatically make it better? No. More over FR chnages a lot to ear size, head size, unless your head is the same as the head dummy, you are not going to hear the same.

The 280 does not suck just because soundstage, in fact most monitor headphones have crappy soundstage save the SRH840. In fact they are mostly design with a condensed soundstage, it makes it easier to spot sonic clues. that is not useful for music listening. RE0 does not lack warmth, try out a good crossfeed on it you will have both the warmth and soundstage. 

All you said about playback accuracy over soundstage is merely a personal preference, he only listens on it, pure accuracy is unimportant. A good sound signature matching your personal preference is what matters the most.

Funny that you bought in the Grados, they are by far one of the most coloured headphones out today. The mid is bumped up, the treble is elevated, they are by no means accurate sounding. Soundstage on them are not exceptional too, although changing the pads on them can make a huge difference, but also to the FR as well. If you haven't tried out different pads on them, I suggest you do. You might very well like a different pad vs the stock one.


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## Wile E (May 25, 2011)

Ra97oR said:


> If a pair of headphones can reproduce a soundstage similar to the original live recording, that is
> 
> FR curve, square wave response and such are numbers that does not add up to raw real world performance. My A2000X and AD1000PRM might as well have one of the fastest response on a dynamic headphones, but does it automatically make it better? No. More over FR chnages a lot to ear size, head size, unless your head is the same as the head dummy, you are not going to hear the same.
> 
> ...


I find it better for music listening. This is what you seem to be missing. You simply cannot claim one way is better than the other for music listening. It is purely a matter of preference. Being purely a matter of preference, you simply cannot call HD280's crap as if it's a fact, because it isn't. I prefer them over all other $100 closed cans I have heard (Tho I haven't heard the Denons you mentioned). And I goddamn HATE HATE HATE HATE crossfeed. If I wanted to add warmth (and inaccuracy), I would use a tube amp.

As far as sound stage, unless you were at the place the source was recorded (for live material) or final mixed (for studio material), you simply cannot quantify soundstage accuracy. Without a reference point, it is pure preference. Not to mention, everything that effects the sound accuracy of headphones, also effects their soundstage.

Short version = HD280Pro's are not crap. They are crap to *you*. Very significant difference there.

EDIT: 225i's don't have the exaggerated highs. Those are the older non-i models, and the 125's. They are relatively flat. And I have all 3 cushions for them to experiment with. (Well, I have the HD414 pads in place of the Grado branded pancake pads. They have the quarter hole mod in them.)


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## Ra97oR (May 25, 2011)

Wile E said:


> I find it better for music listening. This is what you seem to be missing. You simply cannot claim one way is better than the other for music listening. It is purely a matter of preference. Being purely a matter of preference, you simply cannot call HD280's crap as if it's a fact, because it isn't. I prefer them over all other $100 closed cans I have heard (Tho I haven't heard the Denons you mentioned). And I goddamn HATE HATE HATE HATE crossfeed. If I wanted to add warmth (and inaccuracy), I would use a tube amp.
> 
> As far as sound stage, unless you were at the place the source was recorded (for live material) or final mixed (for studio material), you simply cannot quantify soundstage accuracy. Without a reference point, it is pure preference. Not to mention, everything that effects the sound accuracy of headphones, also effects their soundstage.
> 
> Short version = HD280Pro's are not crap. They are crap to *you*. Very significant difference there.


My point of reference on the soundstage is my own ears on the live venue and the live recordings, if they matches nicely, the soundstage is accurate. So yea, I am not making stuff up, if I am just right there... Listening to studio recordings to judge soundstage is hard, as there are far too many variables to take care of, and you are not liking to be in the studio when mastered, nor that the studio's gear is the perfect representation of the soundstage. If you really want warmth, just EQ it, most tube amps just adds distortions.

Well, sound is subjective I can clearly say the HD280Pro sounds crap to my ears, but I hope you can agree on the terrible clamp on it, its unbearable.


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## Wile E (May 25, 2011)

Ra97oR said:


> My point of reference on the soundstage is my own ears on the live venue and the live recordings, if they matches nicely, the soundstage is accurate. So yea, I am not making stuff up, if I am just right there... Listening to studio recordings to judge soundstage is hard, as there are far too many variables to take care of, and you are not liking to be in the studio when mastered, nor that the studio's gear is the perfect representation of the soundstage. If you really want warmth, just EQ it, most tube amps just adds distortions.
> 
> Well, sound is subjective I can clearly say the HD280Pro sounds crap to my ears, but I hope you can agree on the terrible clamp on it, its unbearable.



Unless you were at the exact venue at the exact time of the recording, you have no point of reference. And EQ can't add warmth, at least not what we call warmth around here.

They are a bit tight until you adjust them tho.

And I edited my post above with stuff about my Grados.


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## Ra97oR (May 25, 2011)

Wile E said:


> Unless you were at the exact venue at the exact time of the recording, you have no point of reference.
> 
> They are a bit tight until you adjust them tho.
> 
> And I edited my post above with stuff about my Grados.



That was when I was there, also a different seat. So unless you can clip through things you can say it is totally impossible as your position will always be different than the mic. 

Well, the Grados I have heard are the i and is models, my reference points are FR curves... 







Yep, totally not bright.






Low distortion too. 

Using graph was your idea though.  I guess we should hold off here before totally derailing the thread.


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## Wile E (May 25, 2011)

That is my point, it is absolutely impossible to judge accuracy of the sound stage.

Those are the 225's, not the 225i's. The i models are much improved. I did not like the non i models.

And of course those 280's look bad in that company, they are significantly cheaper than any other can on there. lol.

Again, very good, *closed back, $100 or less* cans. If the headphones you want to compare do not meet both of those criteria, they do not qualify as a competitor.

EDIT: That said, I completely forgot about the HD 448's lol.


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## Ra97oR (May 25, 2011)

Wile E said:


> That is my point, it is absolutely impossible to judge accuracy of the sound stage.
> 
> Those are the 225's, not the 225i's. The i models are much improved. I did not like the non i models.
> 
> ...



Nah, I have already said I am not going to compare the HD280Pro, it is there for reference say the 225i s are bright.

Interesting that you said, the curve is from the Headroom 225i measurement, maybe they missed out the i, or they are really just the 225. Well, to my ears and most members that have experience of many other headphones, I doubt any of them will not call them the brighter of the brunch. I am not going to argue further, if you like the headphones it is good! I've own a few extremely polarizing headphones and continue doing so, one might say they are best every, but the next reply can be worst headphones ever but what matters most is if you like it, it is good. Well the one looking bad there is the unidentified Grados 225/225i, which I am not sure anymore. 

M50 is around the same price as the HD280Pro if you do a bit of shopping, K701 is the same tier as the Grados, and many say it is very bright and thin. 



> Again, these are totally my personal opinion, many people disagrees with it. The best written text could do is to describe the basic signature of the headphones, and its just impossible to pin point the sound to the audience. Its like trying to map out a painting in words. I have stopped trying to do that.


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## Wile E (May 25, 2011)

Ra97oR said:


> Nah, I have already said I am not going to compare the HD280Pro, it is there for reference say the 225i s are bright.
> 
> Interesting that you said, the curve is from the Headroom 225i measurement, maybe they missed out the i, or they are really just the 225. Well, to my ears and most members that have experience of many other headphones, I doubt any of them will not call them the brighter of the brunch. I am not going to argue further, if you like the headphones it is good! I've own a few extremely polarizing headphones and continue doing so, one might say they are best every, but the next reply can be worst headphones ever but what matters most is if you like it, it is good. Well the one looking bad there is the unidentified Grados 225/225i, which I am not sure anymore.
> 
> M50 is around the same price as the HD280Pro if you do a bit of shopping, K701 is the same tier as the Grados, and many say it is very bright and thin.


You missed my edit. I forgot about the HD 448's in the under $100 closed back category. 

You can't find the M50's for anywhere near $100 new, from a reputable seller. Maybe used, but not new.

Also, through all of this, both of us have failed in one pretty large aspect: We aren't considering what is being used to drive these cans when we discuss how they sound. As a point of reference, I primarily use the headphone amp built into my Forte. My setup is just mid-fi.


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## Ra97oR (May 25, 2011)

I have always used a big beefy solid state class-A amp for driving headphones. All my impressions are done on class A amps and both my portable amp + full size if that headphones is designed to be portable. I am not a big fan of tube amps myself so I don't tend to use them. Maybe here is why our opinions are different. I found the headphone "amp" out on my Essence mediocre at best.

I haven't heard the HD448 and not likely to do so ever, so I won't be commenting on it.

Amps that I normally use for testing, Burson HA-160, B22, Luxman P-1u and HA5000 for Audio Technicas.


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## Wile E (May 25, 2011)

Ra97oR said:


> I have always used a big beefy solid state class-A amp for driving headphones. All my impressions are done on class A amps and both my portable amp + full size if that headphones is designed to be portable. I am not a big fan of tube amps myself so I don't tend to use them. *Maybe here is why our opinions are different.* I found the headphone "amp" out on my Essence mediocre at best.
> 
> I haven't heard the HD448 and not likely to do so ever, so I won't be commenting on it.
> 
> Amps that I normally use for testing, Burson HA-160, B22, Luxman P-1u and HA5000 for Audio Technicas.



I'm gonna have to agree. 

But, the OP also doesn't have the high end amps that you have, so I don't think the 280's are a bad choice for him.


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## REDDLINE (May 25, 2011)

Well this might be considered a necro-post, but i was having the same never ending search for a good headset that has good sound quality.

In the end heres what i did. (FYI its a small DIY job)










Headphones are amazing (JVC RX700's) 
Mic is a detachable mic that i found on another headset on Amazon for $11, and i just used a 3.5mm 12ft extender cable to let it connect to the back of my computer.

Also i ended up buying the ASUS XONAR DG sound card because of the headphone amp and it makes LOADS of a difference.

Heres some links if your interested for future reference.

Anyways, after i finished making it, I'd have to say it sounds twice as good as my sisters Sennheiser PC-350 Headset. i use her headset alot even with her HT OMEGA sound card with a build in headphone amp.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013OWPV4/?tag=tec06d-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BY9F38/?tag=tec06d-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0045JHJSS/?tag=tec06d-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0012MMW7E/?tag=tec06d-20

Altogether everything was around $70, and im VERY happy with it.
The zip-ties i used to go through the can didn't make a difference in sound quality at all, i thought it would change it but it didn't effect it at all.

P.S. The mic is amazingly clear, i thought since it was cheap it wouldn't be good but its clear.


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