# Speculation of water, alien life as NASA set to reveal 'major' Mars discovery



## HossHuge (Sep 28, 2015)

> NASA says its scientists have cracked a mystery on Mars, but space enthusiasts will have to wait until Monday for the big reveal.
> 
> The "major science finding," as NASA calls it, will be unveiled Monday at 11:30 a.m. ET, in a live online broadcast from the space agency’s headquarters in Washington, D.C.
> 
> ...



http://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/spec...-set-to-reveal-major-mars-discovery-1.2583779


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## Mussels (Sep 28, 2015)

my guess is on water, and/or evidence of extinct alien life.


i bet you all one like that i'm right. (if i'm wrong, i'm only gunna like the person's comment who gets it right. too lazy)


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## the54thvoid (Sep 28, 2015)

Mussels said:


> i bet you all one like that i'm right. (if i'm wrong, i'm only gunna like the person's comment who gets it right. too lazy)



I think they found your writing skillz.....  You tanking down some hard liquor?  C'mon Mussels - focus!


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## RCoon (Sep 28, 2015)

I hope it's not bacteria that was attached to the stuff we sent there in the first place. We've probably contaminated an awful lot by picking up particulates on the outer shell of our crafts and dumping them on other cosmic bodies.

Or there's a potato farm being grown on human faeces.

Maybe tetrads? http://stonemakerargument.com/index.html


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## rtwjunkie (Sep 28, 2015)

Mussels said:


> my guess is on water, and/or evidence of extinct alien life.
> 
> 
> i bet you all one like that i'm right. (if i'm wrong, i'm only gunna like the person's comment who gets it right. too lazy)



We already kniw there is water. Not only at the poles, but frozen in the soil.  There's enough water in Mars to cover the entire surface several hundred feet.


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## RCoon (Sep 28, 2015)

Well, nevermind

_"the space agency will likely explain how channels called "recursive slope lineae" form on the sides of Martian slopes over time. While that may sound dull, such "dark slope streaks" are one of the red planet's most mysterious features. Most scientists think they're caused by flowing saltwater, since they only happen on sun-facing hills that have surface temperatures above freezing. Flowing water on Mars would be a big deal, of course, since it could support primitive forms of life."_


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## rtwjunkie (Sep 28, 2015)

The problem is, even if life did exist at one time, it's no longer possible.  Not even creating a thicker atmosphere would work, despite science-fiction love of terraformers doing that.

Mars long ago lost it's magnetic field when it's iron core cooled and stopped rotating.  With no magnetic field being created, there was nothing to prevent 90% of its atmosphere from blowing into space from the solar winds.  What remains is thin and mostly carbon dioxide.

No magnetic field also means there is nothing to deflect solar radiation.  Sharp readers will notice that Earth has an atmoshphere and minimal radiation, despite being closer to the sun.  This is all due to Earth's active Magnetic Field.


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## 64K (Sep 28, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> The problem is, even if life did exist at one time, it's no longer possible.  Not even creating a thicker atmosphere would work, despite science-fiction love of terraformers doing that.
> 
> Mars long ago lost it's magnetic field when it's iron core cooled and stopped rotating.  With no magnetic field being created, there was nothing to prevent 90% of its atmosphere from blowing into space from the solar winds.  What remains is thin and mostly carbon dioxide.
> 
> No magnetic field also means there is nothing to deflect solar radiation.  Sharp readers will notice that Earth has an atmoshphere and minimal radiation, despite being closer to the sun.  This is all due to Earth's active Magnetic Field.



Well said.


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 28, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> The problem is, even if life did exist at one time, it's no longer possible.  Not even creating a thicker atmosphere would work, despite science-fiction love of terraformers doing that.
> 
> Mars long ago lost it's magnetic field when it's iron core cooled and stopped rotating.  With no magnetic field being created, there was nothing to prevent 90% of its atmosphere from blowing into space from the solar winds.  What remains is thin and mostly carbon dioxide.
> 
> No magnetic field also means there is nothing to deflect solar radiation.  Sharp readers will notice that Earth has an atmoshphere and minimal radiation, despite being closer to the sun.  This is all due to Earth's active Magnetic Field.


The magnetosphere on Earth isn't about the atmosphere, it is about shielding life from extraterrestrial radiation (predominantly comes from the sun) which is harmful to life.

Mars has an atmosphere and it is comprised of 95% carbon dioxide.  Carbon dioxide is plant food and animal waste.  If there was plant life on Mars, it died out long ago.  It's possible that the plants all died and the carbon dioxide present now came from animals that subsequently also died.  More likely, it never had much/any life.

Liquid water does not imply life.


Edit: Mars has a magnetosphere but it is very weak (3000 times weaker than Earth) and _weird_ (northern hemisphere has almost no magnetism while the southern does):
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2008/1710.html


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## rtwjunkie (Sep 28, 2015)

Actually, the magnetic field also deflects solar wind, so it is about the atmoshphere as well.  Mars has an atmosphere, yes, which I stated, but most of it was blown into space when the magnetic field stopped.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_magnetic_field


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 28, 2015)

Solar wind isn't a real wind; it is charged particles.  If you want an example of a satellite that has almost no atmosphere and no magnetosphere, look at the moon.

Edit: Solar winds are thought to have reduced Mars' atmosphere by 1/3


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## rtwjunkie (Sep 28, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Solar wind isn't a real wind; it is charged particles.  If you want an example of a satellite that has almost no atmosphere and no magnetosphere, look at the moon.




Sigh...I don't even know what you're arguing about. It's commonly used name, even by astronomers, Solar Wind.  I know what it actually is comprised of.

As to a body without a magnetic field, you can also look at Mars.  Everything I've written is commonly known and accepted in the astronomy field.


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 28, 2015)

The moon actually has a pretty strong magnetic field (especially compared to Mars) but it has no magnetosphere.

I did a ninja edit that has interesting information about Mars and its atmosphere.  They describe "umbrella" like magnetic extrusions from the southern Martian surface.  They create a pocket where solar winds can reach the carbon dioxide and push it into space.


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## RCoon (Sep 28, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Edit: Solar winds are thought to have reduced Mars' atmosphere by 1/3



In the same year (2008) a bunch of scientists theorised that multiple large asteroid collision events were the cause of the Mars' core "dynamo" from stopping, which itself would cause the loss of a magnetic field. That was just a theory though.


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 28, 2015)

Liquid water exists on Mars, boosting hopes for life there, NASA says

It is apparently really salty.


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## Iceni (Sep 28, 2015)

Water with high salt concentrations, that forms just under the surface. If the water forms often enough, and it forms under the surface. Regardless of temp and radiation I would put money on  some form of simple life been able to live there.

We have places on earth with no light, and ridiculously inhospitable environments where life can exist. On Earth we have Sulphur and Arsenic based life. Both types have evolved in locations where you would imagine it would be sterile. those been Hydrothermal vents and Soda lakes. Adding something else equally inhospitable on another lump of rock isn't out of the realm of the impossible for me.


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 29, 2015)

Stability is important for life though.  I have my doubts that it is stable enough.  If those pockets of water aren't there for millions of years relatively unchanged, the odds of life taking root there are very remote.


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## Aquinus (Sep 29, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Stability is important for life though.  I have my doubts that it is stable enough.  If those pockets of water aren't there for millions of years relatively unchanged, the odds of life taking root there are very remote.


True but, that doesn't preclude the possibility of it being a remnant from a time when Mars was more hospitable to life as we know it. The problem is that Mars' atmosphere is so much less dense than it is on earth, as a result water in liquid form could only occur in the deepest places on Mars at the hottest times of the year where pressure is just high enough to allow for liquid water however at most places on Mars, the pressure is so low that water would simply sublimates from a gas to a solid and vise versa most of the time.
So consider this:


			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> Atmospheric pressure on the surface today ranges from a low of 30 Pa (0.030 kPa) on Olympus Mons to over 1,155 Pa (1.155 kPa) in Hellas Planitia, with a mean pressure at the surface level of 600 Pa (0.60 kPa).


...and this:





Source: http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/water_phase_diagram.html

That I would find it hard to believe that life could evolve without almost any liquid water. I would imagine that Saturn's moon Titan would be more likely to support life if there really is liquid water ocean below the surface. I think saying that Mars may have supported life could be a more plausible hypothesis.


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## Mindweaver (Sep 29, 2015)

I wonder if it's possible that the water contains "water bears" (_Tardigrade_)? We should send some up to see if they could survive.


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## lilhasselhoffer (Sep 29, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> The problem is, even if life did exist at one time, it's no longer possible.  Not even creating a thicker atmosphere would work, despite science-fiction love of terraformers doing that.
> 
> Mars long ago lost it's magnetic field when it's iron core cooled and stopped rotating.  With no magnetic field being created, there was nothing to prevent 90% of its atmosphere from blowing into space from the solar winds.  What remains is thin and mostly carbon dioxide.
> 
> No magnetic field also means there is nothing to deflect solar radiation.  Sharp readers will notice that Earth has an atmoshphere and minimal radiation, despite being closer to the sun.  This is all due to Earth's active Magnetic Field.



Magnetic fields make complex and squishy life relatively reasonable.  NASA isn't proposing that, they're proposing something like Tardigrades.  Relatively small, extra hardy, simple life forms.  The kind of stuff that exists on earth as extremophiles.



FordGT90Concept said:


> Liquid water exists on Mars, boosting hopes for life there, NASA says
> 
> It is apparently really salty.



Accurate, but not reflective of reality.  When we think salts we think sodium or potassium chloride (NaCl / KCl).  The salts they refer to are perchlorates.  Insanely hydroscopic, such that water basically can't separate from them once sucked into the salts.  Being salts, they lower the freezing point dramatically, which is why the "warm" months on Mars demonstrate flowing liquids on the surface.



So life would have to endure wild swings in temperature, a corrosive aqueous solution, and minimal gaseous atmosphere.  Unless we're going to guess at entirely new biological mechanisms, that only leaves extremophiles.


Edit:
Dang it, Mindweaver posted first.

Yeah, Tardigrades are awesome.  Able to be dried out, baked in radiation, withstand huge variation in temperature, and do so over large periods of time.

My only hope is that whomever gets to Mars first does enough to sterilize themselves.  Bacteria and viruses from earth would re-enact the Europeans colonization of the Americas if they were introduced to Mars.

Edit:
Also, not so much on sending stuff from here.  We could recreate the conditions on Earth, but contamination of Mars would be a catastrophy.


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 29, 2015)

Well not for nothing but I think the theory isn't that there is life in the "flowing water" but underground water. Under "normal" circumstances if there is flowing surface water then there should be subsurface water AKA aquifers or pockets. There are plenty of self contained ecosystems on Earth as a result.


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## natr0n (Sep 29, 2015)

They have been doing secret stuff on mars for a long time.

Not A Secret Anymore

Also, "The Martian" movie that's out coincidence isn't it.

They are literally taunting us, yet everyone sleeps.


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 29, 2015)

natr0n said:


> They have been doing secret stuff on mars for a long time.
> 
> Not A Secret Anymore


And here we go......






The government cant even balance a F#$king checkbook but they have been doing secret stuff 140 million miles away.........seems legit.


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## 64K (Sep 29, 2015)

Does anyone know if just by having the Mars Rover there poking around we may have already introduced some kind of bacteria or virus already? Is it even possible to completely sterilize the equipment we already have sent there? It would be sad to discover some kind of life and just by our presence destroy it.


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 29, 2015)

64K said:


> Does anyone know if just by having the Mars Rover there poking around we may have already introduced some kind of bacteria or virus already? Is it even possible to completely sterilize the equipment we already have sent there? It would be sad to discover some kind of life and just by our presence destroy it.


Meh. Gotta break a few eggs ya know?


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## rtwjunkie (Sep 29, 2015)

Most of the "flowing" water will be transient, and is likely from temporary melting.  Mars has been known for over ten years to have large amounts of subsurface water frozen in the soil, which may periodically thaw in places.  This makes it even more likely as lilhasselhoffer suggests, that if any life is found eventually, it will only be extremophiles.

@64K: all that stuff was assembled in "clean" rooms before being sent into space, so there should be nothing Earth-resident.


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## lilhasselhoffer (Sep 29, 2015)

64K said:


> Does anyone know if just by having the Mars Rover there poking around we may have already introduced some kind of bacteria or virus already? Is it even possible to completely sterilize the equipment we already have sent there? It would be sad to discover some kind of life and just by our presence destroy it.



Already a large scientific question.  There is, to my knowledge, no answer.

We discover new and strange bacteria/viruses all the time, which survive in insane environments.  As yet, even ionizing radiation hasn't proven 100% effective at killing everything.  Whether or not the contamination can thrive once it reaches Mars is another matter entirely.  Again, huge gray area.


Edit:


rtwjunkie said:


> Most of the "flowing" water will be transient, and is likely from temporary melting.  Mars has been known for over ten years to have large amounts of subsurface water frozen in the soil, which may periodically thaw in places.  This makes it even more likely as lilhasselhoffer suggests, that if any life is found eventually, it will only be extremophiles.
> 
> @64K: all that stuff was assembled in "clean" rooms before being sent into space, so there should be nothing Earth-resident.



Not accurate:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d...-carried-bacterial-life-to-mars/#.VgqhnT7-yUk

Life has a way of showing tenacity beyond our best efforts.  Hopefully, the life that did hitch a ride finds a perchlorate bath sufficient to sterilize it.


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## rtwjunkie (Sep 29, 2015)

lilhasselhoffer said:


> Already a large scientific question.  There is, to my knowledge, no answer.
> 
> We discover new and strange bacteria/viruses all the time, which survive in insane environments.  As yet, even ionizing radiation hasn't proven 100% effective at killing everything.  Whether or not the contamination can thrive once it reaches Mars is another matter entirely.  Again, huge gray area.
> 
> ...


 
It seems I missed that about the hitchhikers.  Thanks for the correction!


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Oct 14, 2015)

The icy south pole of Mars takes center stage in this amazing close up from a larger photo of the Martian south pole and cratered Hellas Basin region captured by the European Space Agency's Mars Express orbiter. 

Credit: ESA/DLR/FU Berlin, CC BY-SA 3.0 IGO













The crater-scarred area above the ice cap is the Red Planet's ancient southern highlands, and part of the giant Hellas basin can be seen at the top left of the image. 

The Hellas basin spans more than 1,367 miles (2,200 kilometers) and is about 5 miles (8 km) deep. Scientists think a powerful asteroid impact gouged out this basin shortly after Mars formed. Two thin, wiggly lines on the outer edges of the basin correspond to two deep valleys — Dao Vallis and Niger Vallis — that may have been carved into the planet's surface by water.

The image was something of a happy accident. A photo showing a region of Mars this wide is unusual, ESA officials said, because Mars Express typically takes images pointing straight down toward the planet's surface at an altitude of about 186 miles (300 km). That's the closest to the planet that the spacecraft comes during its elliptical orbit.

But in this photo, called a "broom calibration image," the spacecraft turned so that its camera looked over the surface while far above the planet, at around 6,151 miles (9,900 km) — the farthest it gets from Mars.

"Importantly, as well as affording an unusually wide view, this allows the camera to record a range of features at the same illumination conditions, allowing essential calibration of the camera's sensors," ESA officials wrote in an image description.


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