# what/which is a really big pc case?



## Shambles1980 (Jun 12, 2014)

ok so i always use full atx cases for my main system(s). but even these seem small to me.  so what is the biggest full atx case available "without being stupid about it" 
would like to have it taller and wider than a standard full atx case, Space to mount 2x 240 radiators at the back. (internally) 
a decent amount of space at the bottom so i could have a couple of pumps with built in reservoirs, top mounted exhaust fan, those snazzy holes to rout psu wires behind the board where you want them. and atleast 5 5.2 bays. with the rest hopefully like 6 standard 3.2 bays..
all of this with a ventilated side no fan but a decent meshed cut out... 

Anything like that on the market?


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## sneekypeet (Jun 12, 2014)

Shambles1980 said:


> Space to mount 2x 240 radiators at the back.



that is a really strange requirement, and would likely take a custom build to suit that need. If you are looking for large cases, look at the Corsair 900D, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, MountainMods, CaseLabs, even something like the Nanoxia DS6. There are a bunch of huge cases out there, but I have never seen one with 4 X 120mm fan mounting on the back of the chassis.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 12, 2014)

yeah i havent been able to find one either. just figured i didnt know what to look for lol. 
i would just make a case but my finishing skills suck. i could easily make the frame and everything to mount stuff in, but putting panels on it would be where i would epic fail and it would look like poop.


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## sneekypeet (Jun 12, 2014)

There are cases out there that will hold your water cooling needs, just not in the rear of the chassis. Lots will hold a triple or quad 120mm in the top, front, maybe even in the floor, but most designers don't mess with much more than two fans in the back of the chassis.

If this is your first try at assembling a loop, read as much as you can on it, and look through as many images as you can find, it may throw a bunch of new ideas into your mind, and the original plans usually end up being changed once you find the right case. I would find yourself a chassis you find that you cannot get out of your mind, then plan the install since two 240mm radiators will go in a lot of the new cases out there today.

Also by a custom build, I mean that you could go through CaseLabs or MountainMods, and get the panels drilled how you want them. Both offer customization options in their builds.


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## OneMoar (Jun 12, 2014)

if you are handy with a cordless drill and know your wall around your local hardware/home-store I can't imagine it would be to hard to rig up a duel rad mount
couple of strait brackets and a few L brackets and some nuts and bolts/washer and off you go


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## Vario (Jun 12, 2014)

You could go wood case.  I have been stockpiling components for a large wood case. For radiators/intake fans, use metal rad grills.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jun 12, 2014)

HAF X is the biggest I know of but it would only fit two 200mm radiators instead of 240mm:
http://www.coolermaster.com/case/full-tower/haf-x/


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## TRWOV (Jun 13, 2014)

There's the Corsair AIR 540. Basically two mid towers stapled together.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 13, 2014)

air 540 looked promising till i made the picture bigger and that's not wide enough either..
(if you think about mounting 2 radiators at the back with 2x 120mm fans on each. with that width of case the gpu wouldn't fit and thatsd without thinking about the height.)

i wouldn't want to mount the radiators at the top of the case as that would just make the fans push warm air through the radiators.
i wouldn't want them at the bottom as its either going to push warm air out the bottom and straight in to my psu. or in to the case messing up my other cooling.
I also wouldn't really want them at the front either, i prefer having intake fans at the front.
it wont be my 1st custom loop. but last time i went over board and had a 20lieter plastic box outside the case for a resivuoir. the second rad had to be out side. the pump and small resivuoir were in the case. (i later replaced it for a huge fish tank pump that really made it look like a joke)
But the long and short of it was. there simply isn't enough room in a conventional case for a custom loop that will outperform good air cooling by enough to make it worth the hassle.
I guess if i want to go back to water I just have to make my own frame, maybe i can find some one to cut and mold acrylic sheets to go on to it afterwards.
But that air 540 did make me think i could buy 2 of these cheap and nasty full atx cases for like £10 and weld those together. and just use the outside one to house all the water cooling stuff.

going back to making my own from scratch though..
im no good with wood it always decides to split and stuff like that, so il just use angle iron or box sections or something similar, just stick them together with a mig or rivets or even nuts n bolts.


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## eidairaman1 (Jun 13, 2014)

Corsair,Lian Li, Silverstone,Aerocool/Rosewill,coolermaster,Antec/Chieftec


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## OneMoar (Jun 13, 2014)

if your wood is splitting when screwing you need to predrill the hole
:sunglasses:


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## Devon68 (Jun 13, 2014)

maybe something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133072
you can take a look at the image in post   #1794
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/naturally-aspired-pc-watercooling-club.52032/page-72


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## Vario (Jun 13, 2014)

Yes don't need to even use screws just glue and clamp with simple butt joints.  If you are careful in the clamping process you can get it looking pretty good and just sand it flush.  For removable panels, drill a hole, run a bolt through with a nut on the other end.  TitebondII glue is stronger than a screw if its clamped correctly.

Use pipe-clamps:


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 14, 2014)

Devon68 said:


> maybe something like this:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133072
> you can take a look at the image in post   #1794
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/naturally-aspired-pc-watercooling-club.52032/page-72


that has the same issues as most cases.. just dosent quite have enough space.. its not that far off. and i guess some angled pipe connectors could get around some of the issues.. but its still the same basic issue of not enough space.


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## THE_EGG (Jun 14, 2014)

What about the Phanteks Enthoo Primo, I was seriously considering this case for myself but I couldn't get it as none of my local shops had it at the time I wanted it. It would be a dream for liquid cooling though. Also instead of having the bottom mounted rad pushing air through towards the ground, I'd mount it to have air pushed through INTO the case.

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/phanteks-case-phes813pbl


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## MT Alex (Jun 14, 2014)

Shambles1980 said:


> But the long and short of it was. there simply isn't enough room in a conventional case for a custom loop that will outperform good air cooling by enough to make it worth the hassle.



That statement couldn't be farther from the truth.


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## AsRock (Jun 14, 2014)

Have a look on Mountainmods.com hopefully you will find one in your price range.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 14, 2014)

miomol said:


> What about some oldschool?
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Chieftec-...ting_DesktopComponents_RL&hash=item4d1ecfd27b


lol thats the ugliest case i have ever seen. But i would have thought about it if the price was right, i could mod it a bit, but its collection only and im no where near there. and if i managed to get them to post it postage costs would be ridiculous.  watercoolinguk sell cheap cases with nasty little closed loop systems installed for about £60 delivered which would probably end up better than having to pay the postage on that monstrosity.



MT Alex said:


> That statement couldn't be farther from the truth.


for me persoanlly.. to get the results from a custom loop i wanted to see took a LOT more rooom than i was willing to give up. and i had a good % of the loop outside of the case. The temps were great. but the space needed was a trade off i couldnt justify after a while. 
Thats why i went back to good quality air cooling. This i5 i have does get a bit hot though. i cant delid the thing and according to everything there really is no reason to do that. 
I will lap it a bit Hope to drop 2-5c off the max. and i have some SHIN ETSU X23-7783D coming that may drop it another 2c or so. So im probably looking at 4c drop in temps max 7c. which would probably be the best i can manage with air. 
Ideally though i want to drop 10-20c off my current temps so i can push the oc further. 
The only way i can do that is with a custom loop. But i wont sacrifice the space this time. It has to all be contained in the case. 
if it cant be then i know in 5-6 months time i will just dissasemble it and throw it in the box with my old block rad and other bits.
So its probably a subjective thing. but to me that statement is 100% on the ball. 
To get the drops in temps i need "and keep them there with 24/7 running" i have to have 2 rads a 2 bay reservoir, a pump you could empty the oceans with in 5 seconds. and a case that can hold all of it Inside it.


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## MT Alex (Jun 14, 2014)

I noticed in your Q6600 thread that there is no sense in arguing with you when you have your mind made up, but rest assured that things have changed since your last McGyver attempt at water cooling.  You also either have a high ambient or a poor chip, because the 2500k, mine included, has a reputation for low temps and high clocks.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 14, 2014)

at 4.7 it gets to 85c with intel burn in test on max. in general every day stuff, and even other stress testing software it is in the high 60's low 70's at an absolute max and idles at about 30c (hottest core) "i dont know if for you that would be high clocks and low temps with air cooling, but i think it could be lower"
and right now that is the thermal barrier to prevent me pushing further.
so i have it at 4.63 right now..

my last water cooling was thermaltake big water. i just had to improve it.
after improving the water cooling the q6600 at 3.7 would idle at 22c and full load at 35c and those are temperatures that make the efforts worth while.
i went back to air though due to the space and temps rose by 30-40c under load. idle was only about 10c more.

p.s

The only real issue with water cooling is its hard to get the water back to ambient again. its really good at picking up heat. its great at that. but releasing it again is something that it really isnt great at. This isnt an issue if your computer doesn't stay on 24/7 365 but mine does. even at low loads it will heat that water up gradually until its not working at the correct efficiency. the only real way to combat that is to have a large reservoir and 2 big radiators.. 
As long as you can get the water back to ambient temps by the time it hits the reservoir your golden. if you cant manage that then you need a large reservoir so it has some additional time to cool before going back round again.

thats the only issue. and thats not something that bothers me, provided i can get a case large enough to hold it all in


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## Vario (Jun 14, 2014)

miomol said:


> What about some oldschool?
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Chieftec-...ting_DesktopComponents_RL&hash=item4d1ecfd27b





Shambles1980 said:


> lol thats the ugliest case i have ever seen. But i would have thought about it if the price was right, i could mod it a bit, but its collection only and im no where near there. and if i managed to get them to post it postage costs would be ridiculous.  watercoolinguk sell cheap cases with nasty little closed loop systems installed for about £60 delivered which would probably end up better than having to pay the postage on that monstrosity.


I have an Antec full tower server built by the same OEM and nearly identical to that Chieftec, it would be no good for watercooling. You'd have to cut out a lot of material to get larger fans and the layout is terrible.  Its a nice case though.  Weighs a ton.



Shambles1980 said:


> I will lap it a bit Hope to drop 2-5c off the max. and i have some SHIN ETSU X23-7783D coming that may drop it another 2c or so.



Good call on the thermal paste but lapping the CPU probably won't gain you anything, I haven't seen too many benefit from Sandy Bridge and later chips with lapping.

To fit 2x240mm radiators you could try buying two cases with dual front 120mm fans and just duplex them (bolt them together).

Antec 300 (but not the 300 Two) is a possibility.  You could put the pump and other hardware in the other case interior.  I think the HAF 912 could work too.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 14, 2014)

lapping the q6600 helped a bit, but having said that it wasn't a perfectly flat surface when i started. i cant say i have noticed any irregularities in the i5. i have re mounted the heat sink the other day and cant say anything looked alarming with the thermal paste's spread, with the q6600 you could tell there was a low point when you looked at the thermal paste after removing the heat sink.

i was hoping to eek out a couple of degrees c reduction from a decent lapping. but it does seem like this 2500k is a good surface to mount on.. and the ihs on them have good solid contact. i would like to just get rid of the IHS and mount directly. but from what i have seen most who try it kill the chip. and the only reall way to do it is to cut the seal then heat up the ihs so the solder melts, i could hit it up with my rework station, but if it has that sort of contact to the ihs i dont see any reason in doing that either.


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## Vario (Jun 14, 2014)

Don't delid a 2500k, you won't gain anything from it.
Here is an example of a vertical doubled  case





dual hafs horizontal cases




dual lian lis





i think you get the idea lol


another idea is a test bench


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## kiddagoat (Jun 14, 2014)

I would second a mountainmods case.  

http://www.mountainmods.com/

You can pretty much customize it the way you want it to be.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 14, 2014)

Vario said:


> Don't delid a 2500k, you won't gain anything from it.
> Here is an example of a vertical doubled  case
> 
> 
> ...



i never thought of stacking one on top of the other...
if i did that i probably wouldnt need a second full atx case.. I probably have a case here some where i could use..


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## THE_EGG (Jun 14, 2014)

it doesn't have aesthetics that appeal to me but maybe the CM Stacker 935?http://www.coolermaster.com/case/full-tower-haf-series/haf935/


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 14, 2014)

that actually looks like a good idea for a case. 
may get one of those then. i did think some one must have decided cases need more space for water cooling "well apart from me lol"


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## MT Alex (Jun 14, 2014)

Shambles1980 said:


> my last water cooling was thermaltake big water...



I rest my case.



Shambles1980 said:


> The only real issue with water cooling is its hard to get the water back to ambient again. its really good at picking up heat. its great at that. but releasing it again is something that it really isnt great at. This isnt an issue if your computer doesn't stay on 24/7 365 but mine does. even at low loads it will heat that water up gradually until its not working at the correct efficiency. the only real way to combat that is to have a large reservoir and 2 big radiators..
> As long as you can get the water back to ambient temps by the time it hits the reservoir your golden. if you cant manage that then you need a large reservoir so it has some additional time to cool before going back round again.
> 
> thats the only issue. and thats not something that bothers me, provided i can get a case large enough to hold it all in



My rig runs 24/7, CPU never goes above 45 on full load, VGA almost never above 40, no loud fans, it looks nice, and I don't have a kiddie pool sitting next to my desk.  It's not at all about getting your water back to ambient temperature, it's about reaching an equilibrium that is acceptable.  No kidding.

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/your-pc-atm.65012/page-985#post-2953368


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 14, 2014)

Shambles1980 said:


> But the long and short of it was. there simply isn't enough room in a conventional case for a custom loop that will outperform good air cooling by enough to make it worth the hassle.



What is your definition of a conventional case? Have you not seen that most cases being released on the market these days are fitted with support for at least 240/280mm radiators?  single good quality 240 radiator for CPU cooling alone will prove to be much better than air, and you can find multiple cases to do that. Hell, I have a 750D that is smaller than MT Alex 800D build and I am running a 360 and and a 240 radiator and my GPU never touches 50c (air it would get to 70-80c, itll never touch 40c if I leave the voltage and clocks at stock) and then I think we all know how Haswell is. It gets hot, but I believe I could not get much of an overclock out of my chip on air.

You say your last water cooling was the Thermaltake big water. Things have changed. You know not of what you speak.

You do water cooling the right way, plan, and optimize your space, water cooling is easily well worth it. Water cooling doesnt just come lower temps. It can be quieter (again if you do it right), and most of all aesthetically it can't be beaten.



Vario said:


> Don't delid a 2500k, you won't gain anything from it.
> Here is an example of a vertical doubled  case
> 
> 
> ...



You can't really delid a 2500k without destroying the chip to begin with. Its soldered on. Chances are, you try to take the IHS off, the die of the CPU will come with it, rendering it an unusable destroyed CPU.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 15, 2014)

you can delid them you just have to heat the ihs up after you did your cuts to melt the solder. but from what i see it is utterly pointless,
the ihs is in good contact because of the solder. and it makes good thermal connectivity, so risk vs reward renders it pretty useless. i have seen people post temp drops of 5-10c after de-lidding then cleaning a 2500k, using mx-2 as the thermal compound, but i dont really believe those numbers. i dont think that mx-2 is a better thermal conductor than the solder. and only reall gain would be if you had your block/heat sink in direct contact without the ihs at all. but the 5-10c results i saw posted were with the ihs on. so i dont really believe it.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 15, 2014)

Shambles1980 said:


> you can delid them you just have to heat the ihs up after you did your cuts to melt the solder. but from what i see it is utterly pointless,
> the ihs is in good contact because of the solder. and it makes good thermal connectivity, so risk vs reward renders it pretty useless. i have seen people post temp drops of 5-10c after de-lidding then cleaning a 2500k, using mx-2 as the thermal compound, but i dont really believe those numbers. i dont think that mx-2 is a better thermal conductor than the solder. and only reall gain would be if you had your block/heat sink in direct contact without the ihs at all. but the 5-10c results i saw posted were with the ihs on. so i dont really believe it.



Uh yeah. The users that have Ivy Bridge, and Haswell want solder under the heatspreader. You already have that.


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## debs3759 (Jun 15, 2014)

I see nobody has mentioned Little Devil cases yet. I have a PC-V10 and it is big enough for 3 360 mm radiators, one at the top and 2 at the bottom. Loads of room in them  You could probably fit a 480 at the top


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## n0tiert (Jun 15, 2014)

also a huge case is the

Lian Li PC-V2120X

http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-v2120/


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## P4-630 (Jun 15, 2014)

Another huge case http://www.mountainmods.com/ascensi...-p-483.html?osCsid=dp12vru1na64vhciu80rov66u3


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## Vario (Jun 15, 2014)

The Pinnacle is pretty nice looking
http://www.mountainmods.com/pinnacle-24-cyo-custom-computer-case-p-498.html

Then there is Case Labs, which is as good as it can get...
http://www.caselabs-store.com/merlin-st10-case/
http://www.caselabs-store.com/magnum-sth10/


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jun 15, 2014)

Don't like MM cases, my mate bought one, cost £300 and never came with any extras at all, basically 6 pieces of aluminium for £300 fuck that.

Case labs all the way.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 15, 2014)

what is this case? http://img.techpowerup.org/130730/48.jpg


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## sneekypeet (Jun 15, 2014)

looks like a slightly modded 800D


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 15, 2014)

ok.. would an avp diablo have more space than it?
or is the 800d better than the diablo


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 15, 2014)

If you want space, why aren't you looking at the 900D?

That should be enough to fill it with all the radiators you think you need for your low tdp CPU.



sneekypeet said:


> looks like a slightly modded 800D



It is @MT Alex 700D, they do not make the 700D anymore. Its either the 750D or 800D.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 15, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> If you want space, why aren't you looking at the 900D?
> 
> That should be enough to fill it with all the radiators you think you need for your low tdp CPU.
> 
> ...


why would any one assume that the processor wont be changed some where allong the line?

for enthusiasts some of you really aren't that "enthusiastic"


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## TRWOV (Jun 15, 2014)

I don't know if it would suit your specifical needs (I see you asked for 5 5.25 bays but didn't state for what) but have you looked at NZTX's H440?  Can fit 2 360 radiators (top and front). http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NZXT/H440/


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## eidairaman1 (Jun 15, 2014)

http://www.aerocool.com.tw/index.php/chassis/pgs/pgs-b

XPredator Original Series


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 16, 2014)

Shambles1980 said:


> why would any one assume that the processor wont be changed some where allong the line?
> 
> for enthusiasts some of you really aren't that "enthusiastic"



I guess you are pretty new to this whole thing. Why do you assume that new CPUs coming out will put out more heat? One of the many goals for new CPUs for the future is lower power consumption and less heat. New CPUs coming out wont have a 400w TDP, meaning you dont need 10 radiators.

Hell you can run Sandy and Ivy Bridge E chips (Which have higher TDP then the 2500k, and put out quite a bit more heat) on a single 240/280 radiator thats about 45mm-60mm thick (EK XTX, Alphacool XT45/UT60, New BlackIce Nemesis, etc.) and achieve pretty damn good temps.

We are enthusiasts, we also think in a practicality sense.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jun 16, 2014)

3960x and 4960x with a 25 mm x 240 mm rad with no res just block pump combo via swiftech and my temps were perfectly fine. super huge rads looks cool but are kinda worhtless unless watercooling 2-3 GPUs etc.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 16, 2014)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> 3960x and 4960x with a 25 mm x 240 mm rad with no res just block pump combo via swiftech and my temps were perfectly fine. super huge rads looks cool but are kinda worhtless unless watercooling 2-3 GPUs etc.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 17, 2014)

well given that some of you insist that closed loops are now decent. i decided to get a small closed loop that wasnt going to cost millions, i figured if it isnt good enough then i could always mod it a bit and add my old radiator to the loop with a small resivuoir with built in pump.

did a bit of research, decided that for the case i have that i would go with a small 120 but a fatter one. so i settled for a tundra td03 from what i see its a decent performer with a reasonable block. this at the least will give me scope to improve on it if i think its not good enough.
hopefully it will be good enough. although the last time i decided to buy something against my better judgment because people were telling me its not as bad as i think. i ended up with a bulldozer chip and it sucked fat hairy ones.


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## arskatb (Jun 17, 2014)

http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-d600/


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 17, 2014)

thats the kind of thing i was looking for. That looks like the perfect case for water cooling!


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## remixedcat (Jun 17, 2014)

@de.das.dude DDD would be more than happy to make you a HUGE CASE OF DOOM!!!


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 18, 2014)

Shambles1980 said:


> well given that some of you insist that closed loops are now decent. i decided to get a small closed loop that wasnt going to cost millions, i figured if it isnt good enough then i could always mod it a bit and add my old radiator to the loop with a small resivuoir with built in pump.
> 
> did a bit of research, decided that for the case i have that i would go with a small 120 but a fatter one. so i settled for a tundra td03 from what i see its a decent performer with a reasonable block. this at the least will give me scope to improve on it if i think its not good enough.
> hopefully it will be good enough. although the last time i decided to buy something against my better judgment because people were telling me its not as bad as i think. i ended up with a bulldozer chip and it sucked fat hairy ones.



I question your ability to read. From what I can see, no one said to get a closed loop cooler like the all-in-one you mentioned, not to mention one with as small as a single 120mm radiator. Modifying such a kit is ridiculous IMO. Do it right! Just get one of those EK water cooling kits or something thats just for a CPU that comes with a good radiator, pump, reservoir that won't be as costly as doing a fully custom loop. 

You are listening to the wrong people, or just making shit up in your head. Most if not all, told you to go Intel in your previous thread, but you listened to the few and got a Bulldozer chip, then you wised up and followed what everyone else told you. 

So far from what I can tell in the trends of your threads, is that you tend to have your decision made already, so no matter what we tell you, its not going to matter even if we give you the smarter/better advice. 

I also question why you are even bothering. If I remember correctly, you could barely upgrade from your Q6600 because of your wife. Now you want a new case, and liquid cooling? 

Oh, and Lian Li cases are the last case id choose for a water cooling centric build. Though an AIO unit like you have chosen could be fit in pretty much any case out there these days.


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## THE_EGG (Jun 18, 2014)

Yeh a fat 120mm AIO will fit in just about any case with a 120mm fan mount. Generally installed the rear 120/140mm exhaust mount or on the top of a case. This really opens up your choice of cases.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 18, 2014)

yep the small rad was chosen so i dont need a new case.or if i decide that i do need a new case i dont need a huge one.
you guys say that water cooling has become a lot better, so i figured id see what it is like. the reviews say that the one i chose is pretty good really. the radiator is fatter and has better fins than most others. and performs well with reasonable noise to performance levels, and i dont mind modifying things. which is part of the fun.  but maybe i wont need too..
i also chose this particular one because of the water block. its not screwed together out of plastic, and because it has a fatter rad, also its rad is 40% more efficient compared to other fat 120s. i would have preferred the 240 rad but i cant mount one of those in this case, and i cant afford a new case + water cooling at the same time any way. I can however mount this rad. and if i later want to get a bit cooler i can mount a second 120 that i already have els where.
i should also be able to add my own pump/reservoir that mounts in 2x5.2" bays which would increase the flow rate and is something id need to do if i add a second rad any way. and that is a less expensive way of doing it IF i need too, "like i said i may well not need to if water cooling has come along so much from when i last used it" 
i still find it strange that enthusiasts dont like to modify things.
we buy cpu's and gpus then overclock/modify to see what we can get out of them. so why dont you feel the same about other components


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## arskatb (Jun 18, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Oh, and Lian Li cases are the last case id choose for a water cooling centric build. Though an AIO unit like you have chosen could be fit in pretty much any case out there these days.



Saying that with experience or ?


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## Vario (Jun 18, 2014)

Shambles1980 said:


> yep the small rad was chosen so i dont need a new case.or if i decide that i do need a new case i dont need a huge one.
> you guys say that water cooling has become a lot better, so i figured id see what it is like. the reviews say that the one i chose is pretty good really. the radiator is fatter and has better fins than most others. and performs well with reasonable noise to performance levels, and i dont mind modifying things. which is part of the fun.  but maybe i wont need too..
> i also chose this particular one because of the water block. its not screwed together out of plastic, and because it has a fatter rad, also its rad is 40% more efficient compared to other fat 120s. i would have preferred the 240 rad but i cant mount one of those in this case, and i cant afford a new case + water cooling at the same time any way. I can however mount this rad. and if i later want to get a bit cooler i can mount a second 120 that i already have els where.
> i should also be able to add my own pump/reservoir that mounts in 2x5.2" bays which would increase the flow rate and is something id need to do if i add a second rad any way. and that is a less expensive way of doing it IF i need too, "like i said i may well not need to if water cooling has come along so much from when i last used it"
> ...



The thing is the AIO radiators really suck for anything larger than the loop it comes with, the fittings aren't designed to be plumbed into a new loop, its just not worth the effort. The AIO coolers do perform pretty well and are a great innovation for ITX cases and other small form factor projects.  They also help make the case internals a lot cleaner looking.  If you don't care about the looks, consider putting a fan blowing onto the block and ram. I found this helped when I ran a h100i.

Hopefully the AIO will get you the overclock you desire.  If not, I'd sell the AIO and put the proceeds into getting a custom loop, things are a lot easier now than they were a decade ago.  I remember a friend made a waterblock out of epoxy, lexan, and a cut up copper heatsink back in 2002.  The radiator came from a car's heater core.  Now everything is like legos by comparison.


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## THE_EGG (Jun 18, 2014)

Vario said:


> The thing is the AIO radiators really suck for anything larger than the loop it comes with, the fittings aren't designed to be plumbed into a new loop, its just not worth the effort. The AIO coolers do perform pretty well and are a great innovation for ITX cases and other small form factor projects.  They also help make the case internals a lot cleaner looking.  *If you don't care about the looks, consider putting a fan blowing onto the block and ram. I found this helped when I ran a h100i.*


^This. I tried this out and it lowered my temps on my 4770 by roughly 5 degrees in BF4 and about 8 degrees when trying out Prime95. The pump/block on my 620 gets super hot.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 18, 2014)

Shambles1980 said:


> yep the small rad was chosen so i dont need a new case.or if i decide that i do need a new case i dont need a huge one.
> you guys say that water cooling has become a lot better, so i figured id see what it is like. the reviews say that the one i chose is pretty good really. the radiator is fatter and has better fins than most others. and performs well with reasonable noise to performance levels, and i dont mind modifying things. which is part of the fun.  but maybe i wont need too..
> i also chose this particular one because of the water block. its not screwed together out of plastic, and because it has a fatter rad, also its rad is 40% more efficient compared to other fat 120s. i would have preferred the 240 rad but i cant mount one of those in this case, and i cant afford a new case + water cooling at the same time any way. I can however mount this rad. and if i later want to get a bit cooler i can mount a second 120 that i already have els where.
> i should also be able to add my own pump/reservoir that mounts in 2x5.2" bays which would increase the flow rate and is something id need to do if i add a second rad any way. and that is a less expensive way of doing it IF i need too, "like i said i may well not need to if water cooling has come along so much from when i last used it"
> ...



You chose an AIO kit. That is not the water cooling we were talking about........... (Though I don't even consider it actual water cooling.) You asked for a big case, as if you were planning to do an actual water cooling loop.

There is a difference between an AIO Sealed loop, vs a custom water cooling system (closed loop)

The days of modifying are few and far between. Products released on the market these days make it far too easy to just do it right from the beginning with out having to modify things to work. 

You tend to go against what everyone tells you because your gut tells you its cheaper, then low and behold that choice sucks, and then you have to spend more money to make it right.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 18, 2014)

thats strange because last time i managed to get my i5-2500k for virtually a direct swap for a q6600 because of my way of doing it. (although i had planned to use an amd chip instead of the i5 because it was staed that it would be fine) 
i did have to later upgrade the board. but after spending a bit more for a cpu for the old board and selling that as a bundle. i ended up spending about £20 to upgrade from a q6600 to a i5-2500k with a z77 board and 8gb of ram..
so it was cheaper.. (a lot cheaper actually)


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## MT Alex (Jun 18, 2014)

Shambles1980 said:


> (although i had planned to use an amd chip instead of the i5 because it was staed that it would be fine)



I just looked at the first three pages of your other hard headed thread and found 8 posts recommending an i5 and only a couple, mostly by theoneandonlymark, saying otherwise.  The same holds true for the last 11 pages, but I didn't want to keep counting.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 18, 2014)

Shambles1980 said:


> thats strange because last time i managed to get my i5-2500k for virtually a direct swap for a q6600 because of my way of doing it. (although i had planned to use an amd chip instead of the i5 because it was staed that it would be fine)
> i did have to later upgrade the board. but after spending a bit more for a cpu for the old board and selling that as a bundle. i ended up spending about £20 to upgrade from a q6600 to a i5-2500k with a z77 board and 8gb of ram..
> so it was cheaper.. (a lot cheaper actually)



You obviously don't get the point.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 18, 2014)

i will admit i will always opt for the cheapest alternative i can if i see people saying that it will suffice.
I got lucky with the amd as i was able to roll it over and get the i5. intact if i hadn't got the amd then i would not have an i5 now. But that was mostly luck as i was able to get the amd for cheap then sell it for more.

this water cooling thing "arrived today and installed" is about 8-10c cooler than my old air cooler. but it does it a tiny bit quieter. the ~8c is just "and i mean only just" enough cooler to let ibt run without the cpu clocking down due to heat now. (only just though)
at idle the temps are mostly the same but now its MUCH quieter than before.
I think i probably will add my old 120mm radiator in there some where and a reservoir. but probably not for a while.

1 good thing is that i can use some indego extreme with this block as it is totally flat with no screw holes.  my old heat sink was direct heat pipe so i couldn't use it with that.
I guess that the 8-10c difference could be a Tiny bit off because it was really hot today. and hadnt really been this hot prior to this.
One thing i do find supprising is just how thin these pipes are for water transfer.. the inner diameter of the pipes i used to use was bigger than the outer diameter of these things. I guess that they use venturi to maximize water speed at lower rpm or something.

P.s

there are many points that i may be missing.
1 of them may well be why build your own pc if you can buy a perfectly good one from dell for 3x the price.
another one may be why over clock, just get the cpu that runs at that speed at stock.
And i guess im also missing the point you are making. although it seems to be along the lines of the afore mentioned ones.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 18, 2014)

I will just leave this here. Could have got this with much better results, and not have to bother trying to mod that poopy AIO.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2...cluded_w_Free_Dead-Water.html?tl=g59c683s2174

and to refer to your "P.S" points. Not sure where you came up with those, but I guess it proves my point.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 18, 2014)

will not fit in my case...

thats why i originally asked about the big cases.. 
if i bought that here (£170-£230) i would also need a new case. which in reality is a minimum of £70 if im buying a really nasty case. so lets assume i got a good deal on the kit. and then a nasty case. thats £240...

but here i have a loop which i can happily modify to have 2x 120 rads (already have 1 spare) Make it fit in my case and get a 2 bay reservoir and spend ~£80 total..
If i had in the neighbor hood of £250 to drop on a case and water cooling. im pretty sure i would have done that..


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 18, 2014)

Shambles1980 said:


> will not fit in my case...



This thread to begin with was about a new case right? Then some how you believe we told you to get an all in one cooler, which led you to believe you don't need a new case........


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 18, 2014)

you said water cooling has come a long way so i would not need multiple radiators a resivuoir and pump.. 
So i decided i could get an all in one. which would fit. and if it wasnt good enough just mod it as i would have the space for a second 120mm 
Which from what you all said 2x120Mm Would be more than enough for an i5. 
So here we are.


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## Vario (Jun 18, 2014)

Well its good that you got a reduction in temperatures, -8 to -10 C is a nice drop.
I know jack shit about watercooling but if it were me I'd keep the AIO stock.  As a single system it works fine but its not meant to be more than that.  You will probably be happier with the end result if you keep the AIO for now and then save a few months or a year, then treat yourself to a nice setup like the one MXPhenom216 posted above.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 18, 2014)

its not as epic as i had hoped for to be honest. But it really is pretty good for a tiny little thing that it is. 
the people in the thread were right. water cooling has come a long way. last time i used it something this size wouldn't have been able to cool down  a used tea bag.


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## Vario (Jun 18, 2014)

Shambles1980 said:


> its not as epic as i had hoped for to be honest. But it really is pretty good for a tiny little thing that it is.
> the people in the thread were right. water cooling has come a long way. last time i used it something this size wouldn't have been able to cool down  a used tea bag.


I think its because modern Intel CPU are very power efficient so they don't give off much heat. But theres no way a 120 could cool both a modern GPU and a modern CPU.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 18, 2014)

i just need it for the cpu..
the gpu oc'd as far as voltage restrictions let me oc will bearly get to 65c... and the fans dont work that hard at all possibly 60% or so. its a 7850 oc sapphire twin fan. im very pleased with how cool it runs.

all i want the water for is to keep the cpu from clocking down in the max stress intel burn test. if it gets to 85c on any core it clocks down. Only IBT at max can get a core to that temp. but thats not good enough.
it can bearly do it without clocking down now. so i should be happy with that but i had hoped for a bit more so i could push it further.
il see what happens after the thermal paste cures a bit. (only applied it today same old generic gloop i used last time) maybe it will drop 1-2c maybe it wont who knows.
still wating on my good paste. and i do have indego extreme as an option now too.
Seems a bit exessive just for intel burn test lol. but i do like for my stable oc's to be stable under EVERY situation, and clocking down due to heat is not stable in my books even if ibt says it passed.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 18, 2014)

Shambles1980 said:


> i just need it for the cpu..
> the gpu oc'd as far as voltage restrictions let me oc will bearly get to 65c... and the fans dont work that hard at all possibly 60% or so. its a 7850 oc sapphire twin fan. im very pleased with how cool it runs.
> 
> all i want the water for is to keep the cpu from clocking down in the max stress intel burn test. if it gets to 85c on any core it clocks down. Only IBT at max can get a core to that temp. but thats not good enough.
> ...



Why use IBT? Its a synthetic test. Doesn't hold a candle to real world usage testing like x264 benchmark/stress test, or actual games, etc.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 19, 2014)

i use a lot of tests.. things like gun metal, occt, pc mark, 3d mark, prime, in game benches. game benches that you can get like hl2 and lost planet and so on. just gaming with msi ab + hwinfo  running so i can monitor usages and stuff. everest stress tests, (just the ones i can remember off the top of my head) pretty much anything that can bench or stress a system i will use it to make sure my oc is stable.
And the only one that failed for my oc is IBT on max. Ibt itself says passed.. but it obviously doesn't see that the cpu slowed down due to heat. so thats a fail in my books..

I like tweaking my stuff to get them as fast as i can get them for the least amount of money.
my q6600 was the fastest verifed result in 3d mark. and was not to far behind the un verified's either. its just something to do.. something i have always done infact. getting a cpu to 99Mhz was an epic win back when i started doing it.

Sure if i had the money i could buy a titan some i7  something or other a case with the best water cooling possible. But i would still push it as far as i could within safe margins. thats the fun of pc's you tweak them modify them make them better than they should be.
and then you go ahead and play 6 year old games on them because everything now sux..

if i have the time i can happily tinker with my pc for 8 hours just messing with settings trying different fan lay outs running tests then doing it all over again. just to see what my limit is and what exactly is the weak link. then improve on the weak link.. and start again untill its as fast as i think it can be.. Then il think about upgrading if i can afford it or justify it. (i dont think i will upgrade this system for at least 2 years though unless i see a inexpensive i7-3770k) 

When it comes to games.. only a hand full of games can keep me playing for that amount of time. And if i do play them for that long chances are i will finish them in less than a week. thats why i like games like fallout 3, new vegas, and gothic. i even give diablo a go. because they can give me a good run. most games these days you can finish them off in 1 or 2 sittings. and thats not much fun.. so its a LOT more fun just to tinker with the actuall pc its self..


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## Vario (Jun 19, 2014)

Be careful with Indigo Xtreme I have heard that it can be permanent.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 19, 2014)

oh well i know its really good didnt know it could be permanent though..


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 19, 2014)

Shambles1980 said:


> oh well i know its really good didnt know it could be permanent though..



I don't see a single review saying that that stuff is good. From what I am reading, sounds pretty shitty, and overpriced. You can't get much better than Arctic Cooling MX-4.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 19, 2014)

meh i used mx-4 for ages it is really good i will admit. but all the reviews i have seen put indego extreme in a different league to conventional paste. il go try and find a graph test thing.

heres 1






http://skinneelabs.com/2011-thermal-paste-review-comparison/

extreme rigs state that it is the best
http://www.xtremerigs.net/2013/03/14/indigo-extreme-review-guide/
then a review over here
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...me-vs-AS5-MX-2-IC-Diamond-Shin-Etsu-X23-7783D

and i have seen quite a few more that generally state that it is in a totaly different ball park.

i do know you have to basically cook it on your cpu so it melts and fills up all the voids making it an almost perfect direct contact between both surfaces.
I guess that this is the same process that could cause it to be permanent..


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 19, 2014)

Well IMO thermal paste is thermal paste. The difference between them in terms of how much they drop your temps is quite small. A better cooler will obviously make a much bigger difference then some TIM.


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## Vario (Jun 19, 2014)

you gotta get yourself some x23 heh


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 19, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Well IMO thermal paste is thermal paste. The difference between them in terms of how much they drop your temps is quite small. A better cooler will obviously make a much bigger difference then some TIM.



id love to agree, but if that was true you wouldn't use mx-4 you would just buy a 30g tub of that generic gloop i use for testing..

thermal paste does make a difference, correct application also makes a difference. whether we are talking 5c difference between tooth paste and the generic gray gloop or 5c between that and  mx-4 or 5c between mx4 and xtreme it is  a difference. also if we factor in possible ~2c differences due to application methods, an added bonus with xtreme is the application, theres only 1 way to do it. and then its done perfectly. but if it can bond permenantly then il probably just use the x23 or mx4


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 19, 2014)

Shambles1980 said:


> id love to agree, but if that was true you wouldn't use mx-4 you would just buy a 30g tub of that generic gloop i use for testing..
> 
> thermal paste does make a difference, correct application also makes a difference. whether we are talking 5c difference between tooth paste and the generic gray gloop or 5c between that and  mx-4 or 5c between mx4 and xtreme it is  a difference. also if we factor in possible ~2c differences due to application methods, an added bonus with xtreme is the application, theres only 1 way to do it. and then its done perfectly. but if it can bond permenantly then il probably just use the x23 or mx4



Sure theres a difference between TIM. I never said there wasn't any at all. Its just small. A better cooler will make a bigger difference. 

I know for a fact if I did reviews and needed a ton of TIM I would for sure get a massive tube of say Arctic Cooling Ceramique or something, but I don't so I use what I either have or have used before, and right now I have MX-4. Mainly because its easy to apply, spreads well, and non conductive.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 19, 2014)

when your talking overclocking and getting the most out of your cpu those few degrees do make a difference.
my x23 arrived. and i swear its fake. it should come with a red cap but its black.
i tried to apply it. and it simply came out way to easy.
I told the seller who is sending me a replacment and issuing a refund.
They get them in bulk apparently and only very rarely do they get a complaint.. they also say they supply lots of pc repair shops who praise it.
If the next one arrives and looks fake i will just use mx-4 again.

(i just looked at that list i posted and mx-4 is stated to be better than x23 in that graph. i need to point out that that graph is out of a bunch of tests with different mount pressures and stuff. mx4 performed better over the course of the test but under correct application and usage the x23 was better, in case you dont want to check the actual link)


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jun 19, 2014)

In over 30 CPU cooler reviews and 10 different TIMs that have crossed my desk the only one that made a huge difference was IC Diamond and it only made a difference with one cooler due to mounting pressure IHS curvature / curvature of the heatsinks base etc.  In most other tests the difference between the Ceramique I use for testing vs Noctua NH-H1 / Prolimatech Pk-1 and MX-4 among others the difference has been with proper application within 1-2'C which depending on the day / humidity / ambient temp = within Margin of error.  

Overall half the shit your doing doesn't even matter.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 19, 2014)

most reviews say the same about thermal paste in general. but i cant find one that doesnt say indego xtreme  is a lot better than your general paste.
it is a phase change alloy though so i guess technically cant be called thermal paste. you also have to run it at hot temps "turn off your fans/pump" then run prime or something to get it to 100% load and let it throttle itself down a couple of times. then close prime and let it slowly cool down at idle "still with all cooling off" then when the temps stabilize. turn the pc off and leave it to cool passivly for atleast 30 minuets so its as cool as its going to get.
that process melts the alloy which flows to fill in all microscopic flaws and create a perfect surface between your block/heatsink. The slow passive cool down phase helps ensure that it cools down evenly and as 1 mass rathere than some parts cooling faster creating fissures. thats as close to direct contact between the ihs and block as we can really get these days. so its hard to argue that it wont make a difference IF DONE PROPERLY.
like i said i cant find a single review that dosent say that it is in a league of its own when used properly.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jun 19, 2014)

And yet in the end compared to a high end paste applied correctly its not going to offer a change big enough to increase overclocking headroom etc

If your on Intel and using Ivy / Haswell etc you will hit the chips max OC before you hit max temps with traditional cooling and tim "most of the time" Their are exceptions but still my 4770K does 4.8 if i push it and temps are still below throttle point using dirt cheap Ceramique paste and an NH-D15.   Didn't need $20 kit that gets 2 applications only to do it.

There is always gains to be made but you end up passing the point where it becomes economical and in the end just becomes down right stupid.

From what I have seen for Indigo Extreme if you do a proper mount it might be 1'C Better than the best pastes on the market.  It beats the Ceramique dirt cheap paste by less than 2'C according to Skinnelabs on a good mount meaning its fucking pointless.


Ceramique 2 = $5 to get around 10 applications or so 2 applications per $1
Indigo Extreme = $20 to get 2 applications = $10 per application for a 1-2'C difference
Yea... not worth it and that test was on a CPU that doesn't use TIM under the IHS. As such when used on something like Haswell or Ivy-Bridge its even more of a waste due to inherent inefficiency of the TIM under the IHS.

Let us also not forget that depending on a CPU coolers mounting system Indigo Xtreme may not spread properly or at all as some users have noticed with Coolers like Thermalrights Silver Arrow






So yea 4x the cost for 1.2'C Drop


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 19, 2014)

its still better though lol.
and a few c is a difference. in my particular situation i could argue that in every day use or even under regular stress tests that i really dont need a good tim.
but i could also argue that really i dont need a good cpu cooler either. i did have a very good heat sink and fan. and now i have a middle of the road aio which dropped temps a bit. but all the little things add up to give you that bit extra.
technically i could over clock farther with what i already have but i dont feel comfortable doing that whilst it is within a few c of downclocking due to temps under IBT at max.
1-2c here and there will add up and allow me to push things further.
most reviews seem to state that the avarage temp diference between xtreme and other tim's is in the range of 2-5c with better diferences being noted with cpu's that create higer heat.

if we are talking 2-5c for what effectively is £15 for 2 applications i really dont see that as being so expensive.
I could get 12g of mx-4 for about the same price. but honestly id only want to apply xtreme 1ce so i dont see it as something that is expensive. 12g of mx-4 would last me a very long time. but then i may as well argue i can get 30g of generic gloop for £2.99 so why pay atleast 8x more for mx4. by your argument i would be stupid to buy mx4..

i will concede that Alot of heat sinks cant be used with it. and they state that on the web page. so its not really an issue. we know that they have to have a solid base, so you cant use direct contact heat pipes. and you cant use water blocks with screws in the base.
if your spending a lot on your system to over clock i dont see the price of indego as expensive, and i am really cheap.


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## Devon68 (Jun 19, 2014)

After 4 pages of discussion are you any closer to the case you are looking for?


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 19, 2014)

i would get the pc-d600 for a full custom setup like i thought i would need these days.  http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-d600/
http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-d600/

but the posters were right and water cooling is much more efficient than it used to be and this tiny little aio perfroms very well so i dont believe i will need a new case now. 

if in the future i decide to get a epic water cooling system i will be looking for a pc-d600 as it would allow me to set up the loop i would want to make. i will probably save up to get it and the components to make the loop that i want. But it will be over kill with the efficency of todays liquid cooling systems, but i guess when it comes to cooling, if its worth doing its worth over doing.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 19, 2014)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> In over 30 CPU cooler reviews and 10 different TIMs that have crossed my desk the only one that made a huge difference was IC Diamond and it only made a difference with one cooler due to mounting pressure IHS curvature / curvature of the heatsinks base etc.  In most other tests the difference between the Ceramique I use for testing vs Noctua NH-H1 / Prolimatech Pk-1 and MX-4 among others the difference has been with proper application within 1-2'C which depending on the day / humidity / ambient temp = within Margin of error.
> 
> *Overall half the shit your doing doesn't even matter*.



What I have been trying to say this whole time..................



Shambles1980 said:


> i would get the pc-d600 for a full custom setup like i thought i would need these days.
> http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-d600/
> 
> but the posters were right and water cooling is much more efficient than it used to be and this tiny little aio perfroms very well so i dont believe i will need a new case now.
> ...



Yet, you got like one of the worst AIO kits you could. Well done!


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jun 19, 2014)

Shambles1980 said:


> its still better though lol.
> and a few c is a difference. in my particular situation i could argue that in every day use or even under regular stress tests that i really dont need a good tim.
> but i could also argue that really i dont need a good cpu cooler either. i did have a very good heat sink and fan. and now i have a middle of the road aio which dropped temps a bit. but all the little things add up to give you that bit extra.
> technically i could over clock farther with what i already have but i dont feel comfortable doing that whilst it is within a few c of downclocking due to temps under IBT at max.
> ...



Heres the kicker, that 1-2C wont fucking matter, soon as your ambient temps go up 1-2c you are right back where you started. Most people do not maintain a constant temperature in their homes. So in retrospect. that 1.2'C change gives you an extra month before having to clean your system to maintain awesome temps or a 1'C leeway in ambient temps. You can do what you like but when it comes time to dissassemble the system and clean it you will most likely have to uninstall the AIO to clean it completely. This = reapply paste if your home has carpets etc and your system is on the floor be prepared for extreme dust build up on the fans and radiator. I encountered this issue alot when i had my Thermaltake Water 2.0 PRO. to get it good and clean and get temps back to where they should be required a full cleaning. Also if you want to bring price into the equation. The cheap paste that is supplied - free thus $20 saved. Over the generic included paste you are paying $20 for a 1.2'C drop vs the cheapest stuff available.  I can make the argument that spending $10 on a better cooler will give a better return on Temps than your $20 purchase of TIM.

I mean hell I could take a CRYORIG R1 Universal slap a third 140 x 13 mm fan on it for three fans. For the SAME PRICE as the TD03 and beat it temp wise while being much quieter.

At max performance the TD03 will hit around 60 dBA while the CRYORIG hits 45. and beats it temp wise on Haswell by 5-6'C give or take. This means I could spend less beat your AIO in cooling performance and by a margin large enough that the TIM can't make up for it. With the likes of a 2600K the R1 with three fans would offer perfect memory compatibility like the AIO and beat it by 3'C which is still double the temp drop compared to TIM choice.

So in summation the $20 on TIM could have paid for better cooling that would have dropped temps further.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 19, 2014)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> So in summation the $20 on TIM could have paid for better cooling that would have dropped temps further.




Exactly what I was saying before. Better cooling will make a much bigger difference then some TIM.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 19, 2014)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> Heres the kicker, that 1-2C wont fucking matter, soon as your ambient temps go up 1-2c you are right back where you started. Most people do not maintain a constant temperature in their homes. So in retrospect. that 1.2'C change gives you an extra month before having to clean your system to maintain awesome temps or a 1'C leeway in ambient temps. You can do what you like but when it comes time to dissassemble the system and clean it you will most likely have to uninstall the AIO to clean it completely. This = reapply paste if your home has carpets etc and your system is on the floor be prepared for extreme dust build up on the fans and radiator. I encountered this issue alot when i had my Thermaltake Water 2.0 PRO. to get it good and clean and get temps back to where they should be required a full cleaning. Also if you want to bring price into the equation. The cheap paste that is supplied - free thus $20 saved. Over the generic included paste you are paying $20 for a 1.2'C drop vs the cheapest stuff available.  I can make the argument that spending $10 on a better cooler will give a better return on Temps than your $20 purchase of TIM.
> 
> I mean hell I could take a CRYORIG R1 Universal slap a third 140 x 13 mm fan on it for three fans. For the SAME PRICE as the TD03 and beat it temp wise while being much quieter.
> 
> ...



£116 is not $20 more... its more like £60 more which is $102 more without an extra fan..
I dont know why you people keep pulling prices out of your wazzoos..

did a bit more research here. and for $20 more all i could get is a h90. and thats worse than what i bought according to reviews. or as for air cooling i could get a zalman cnps12x which again is 4c worse for a bit more money with no scope to improve...


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jun 19, 2014)

THen you live in a shitty location

The SIlverstone TD03 = $90+ add in the retarded Tim thats $110
R1 Universal is $90 + fan is $10 some parts of the world have a promo going on with third fan being free

so $100 vs $110 state side.

Other liquid coolers like the Thermaltake Water 3.0 PRO = $6-10 cheaper than the TD03

Air coolers like Noctua's NH-D14 which is still a solid performer is around $78

It does come down to location in the world. However regardless you make 180' decisions and flip flop and spend money in the wrong places. But hey its your money do with it what you want


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 19, 2014)

cheapest i can find that cooler here is £116.
which is near enough twice the price. also to refer to some ones country as shitty seems a bit excessive when discussing computers and components wouldn't you say?

edit. 

at the price i paid the performance is pretty good i think. if i had a case that could hold a bigger radiator then obviously i would have done it differently. If i had the money to throw at a new case and the cooling system i wanted then i would have. (im sure then you would say i over spent for excessive cooling that i don't need though) 

but i still think that this atleast has scope for modifying, i understand none of you think thats a good idea but its something i will enjoy doing when i get round to it. 
i can get a bay and pump for pretty low amounts of money and just modify it a bit. like i said i already have a 120mm rad from my old tk big water. i can easily mount a 120 at the front of my case and work like that. 
I know people will say "why mod when you can just pay 4x more money to get it done right in the start" but i really dont comprehend that mentality much lol. 
where is the fun in  it..
thats a bit like throwing money at some one so they build you a system oc it for you set up with the best components and then you just use it.. 
thats no fun is it..


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jun 19, 2014)

Not really there are parts of the world that truly are shitty to live in where part selection is atrocious and prices are extreme with little to no inventory etc. Truth hurts. 

Also when making threads telling people where your from where you can purchase from is more likely to get you positive feedback that fits your needs. And gets you the answers you seek. But so far each thread you have made meanders through a decision that never gets made then you do 180 spin and do something else entirely.


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 19, 2014)

yeah im a hard ware butterfly.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jun 19, 2014)

Sarcasm for the win


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## Shambles1980 (Jun 21, 2014)

lol its a true story though. i know what i want and i know what i can affoard, i do try and get what i want but will usually have to settle for what i can affoard and then just make it work.
also i cant really save money. if i have money spare the wife will find something to spend it on.. "point in case last night i was allowed to take her out for a meal."

any way i decided to fiddle a bit more in the bios i set vdrop to max (power saving) and then used an offset of 0.0500 to get me back to my 1.35 target as a max draw. (when i had vdroop low (max performance) i noticed it would touch on 1.4 rearly but it did it.
this slight tweak in the bios has seemed to help. but i also applied the new x23 that arrived today (i told the guy i thought the 1st one was a fake so he sent me a free replacment) i guess i should have checked one variable at a time because now i cant be sure of what made the difference..

regardless IBT is now able to run without getting to 80c. and for 90% of the run fan speeds stay at ~75%
I set the warning temps at 73c for all cores and my usuall fan speeds vary acording to temps on core 1.
This is supposed to have it so if any core hits 73c then the fans all go to 100% but it seems they only go to 100% if core 1 hits 73c. So that will need tweaking too.

think i have it almost good right now.
i may get higher pressure fans for the rad. although i think i will benefit more if i cut the back of the case open a bit and just use a fan guard so the 120mm fan for the radiator is not as restricted by the case as it is now.

right now the temps in IBT are about 12c lower that i can tell (i cant be sure because it would clock down before due to temps. but my target for this oc has been achieved.
It is also ALOT quieter than the xigmatek aiger i had on it in push pull.

here is a screen dump i took during a IBT run "sys fans are the cpu fans. cpu is the pump. aux are the side fans. my other fans run off of molex"
the temp in this room is 23c

a few more tweaks to the case, possibly higher pressure fans and i should be able to get this setup really pretty silent, and im quite happy because its really pretty warm for this country so the temps can only really get alot better or a tiny bit worse due to ambient.


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## Shambles1980 (Jul 4, 2014)

it will be a huge surprise to every one to hear that i went against your advice, and went ahead and added the 120mm radiator i had from my old big water custom loop.(used my xigamtec 120mm fan for that as it has good cfm and static pressure. (the thermal take rad needs a lot of stattic pressure) 
i also added a 2 bay reservoir and a small 12v 6l/h pump to my aio. took a while to prime it all the secnod 120 rad did not want to fill up so i had to manually prime/bleed it  once i did that it all went well.

now im running IBT maximum and get to 63c max fans stay at 30% so its a lot better now.
finally happy with it, and because i went with 2 separate 120's i managed to shoe horn it all in to this ancient case of mine.

quite inexpensive really compared to a real custom loop although i wouldn't really call this an aio any more. i think the cutting up of the tubes adding more. + cable ties and "better safe than sorry" sealant has voided my 5 year warranty.
but its not something im bothered about, because if it had broke id have just one this to it any way.

really would prefer to get a nice big case and a proper custom loop. but cheap and cheerfull is good. 

I may add it to the ghetto mods thread some time. but for now its just finished.


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## Vario (Jul 4, 2014)

> it will be a huge surprise to every one to hear that i went against your advice


sarcasm? lol

glad it worked for you, good temps.  I just run my fans at a fixed speed (30% from the bottom on the fan controller dial) all the time.


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## MikeMurphy (Jul 4, 2014)

Best place to get cases are you local computer recycling center.  It's usually pretty easy to find a large server tower for $5.

Any case with a manual "Turbo" button will give you additional street cred.


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