# HDMI out from GPU revisited



## Frag_Maniac (Jul 27, 2013)

A long while ago I made a thread about not being able to get PCM 5.1 audio pass through via HDMI out on my GPU. I can get a working HDMI option in the Windows sound panel, but only as my stereo TV.

Recently though I found a thread where guys were talking about Wii U's requiring an LPCM 5.1 capable receiver, and turning off the AVR's passing the audio to a stereo TV if passing the signal through the receiver.

I'm not sure if an inability to pass HDMI video through my AVR is the problem, or the AVR being set to pass audio to a stereo TV, or neither, but nothing I've tried allows me to get 5.1 PCM audio out of my games using HDMI.

Can anyone tell me how to set this up? TV, AVR and GPU are listed in my sys spec chart.

I have the same AVR mentioned in the following thread btw. How would I do what Mark suggested in post #5?
http://www.avforums.com/forums/av-amplifiers-receivers/1505712-yamaha-rxv371-outputing-2-1-only.html


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## AsRock (Jul 27, 2013)

In my case once it's all connected i have to go to sound options |playback and highlight AMD HDMI Output and select configure and pick 5.1 and my AV will select PCM \ Multichannel if tht last part is not done i will not get 5.1.


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## Frag_Maniac (Jul 27, 2013)

Yeah I've gotten that far before when going straight to the TV with HDMI vs thru the AVR, but the only way I get an audio source usable via HDMI is if I set the TV itself as the sound device, and then there's only a stereo option. AMD HDMI is always greyed out. My TV also has no HDMI outputs, it may require that AND a LPCM 5.1 capable receiver to get the AMD HDMI 5.1 option.

I'm also wondering if my AVR is even LPCM 5.1 capable, or could it possibly be the version of HDMI cable I'm using, which I believe is 1.3? I've read chat of some claiming original HDMI formats did not support LPCM 5.1 due to the bandwidth required.

As for trying to pass video thru my AVR to my TV, I've never been able to get that to work either. It could be due to my Panny TV having hit and miss PC support. In it's manual it says PC use is not assumed, and the only port that's labeled PC on it is VGA.

On TV choice it was down to Panny and LG for low input lag, and that year Panny had the best option on PQ and no lottery on IPS panels like LG. Next time I may go LG though, because their sets seem to be more PC compliant. It's hard to say with formats other than LCD evolving though.

Just tried checking if somehow disabling pass thru of audio to the TV on my AVR would help as per that thread I linked to. I think the only way to do that on my receiver is choose the "Amp" option vs "Amp+TV". Still no luck though. I'm not sure his setup even includes a PC though, so perhaps a different scenario entirely.


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## AsRock (Jul 28, 2013)

I know Irish_PXzyan has a Yammy and uses a AV maybe ask him he might be able to help you..


If the Yammy is any thing like the ONKYO you can edit the input\outputs.  Mine has a OSD which makes it much easier to setup.

I be very surprised if it don't support it.

So maybe give Yamaha a call and see if they can help you though this issue.

O yeah i use 1.3 cables.

EDIT:


> As for trying to pass video thru my AVR to my TV, I've never been able to get that to work either. It could be due to my Panny TV having hit and miss PC support. In it's manual it says PC use is not assumed, and the only port that's labeled PC on it is VGA.



And i cannot see how it has any thing to do with your TV as it goes from PC to AV.  But maybe try disabling the sound on the TV.


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## Frag_Maniac (Jul 28, 2013)

Already have the TV sound disabled. I can edit the inputs on the receiver, but all it does it rename them, it has nothing to do with their function.


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## Jetster (Jul 28, 2013)

In the sound properties on the PC under HDMI if it is showing just 2 channel the install the ATI driver. Its the 8th one down under High Definition Codex

http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/

Basicle you have to have the onboard codex driver install to pass through the 5.1


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## Mussels (Jul 28, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> A long while ago I made a thread about not being able to get PCM 5.1 audio pass through via HDMI out on my GPU. I can get a working HDMI option in the Windows sound panel, but only as my stereo TV.
> 
> Recently though I found a thread where guys were talking about Wii U's requiring an LPCM 5.1 capable receiver, and turning off the AVR's passing the audio to a stereo TV if passing the signal through the receiver.
> 
> ...




my HDTV only allows 5.1 audio from its TV tuner due to legal/HDCP issues. it will ONLY output stereo.

the idea is that you need a HDMI receiver for the audio PRIOR to HDMI going into the TV.


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## Jetster (Jul 28, 2013)

I think I read it wrong. If your trying to run audio from your TV to your receiver via optical or RCA. Most TVs only output 2 channel.


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## Frag_Maniac (Jul 28, 2013)

I've installed the "ATI" HDMI driver on Realtek's site before (and just now again), it always shows as "unplugged" even if I have all other devices disabled.

The AMD HDMI drivers always install with the graphics driver, but they also always show as "unplugged" even if all other devices are disabled.

The only way I've been able to get any kind of HDMI Audio device showing as plugged in is if I disable onboard sound and set my TV as the default sound playback device, in which case it shows in the Sound panel as Panasonic-TV, AMD High Definition Audio Device, but it will only configure as stereo.

Routing the HDMI cable through the receiver before going to the TV always results in black screen no matter how I try, unless someone with this same Yamaha RX-V371 receiver can tell me a way to do it.

So I'm thinking I've either got a problem like Mussels mentioned where my particular TV is restricted to stereo output due to legal/HDCP issues, or my AVR cannot do video pass through, maybe both.

On the HDCP thing, the reason I had to return the MSI 660 Ti I bought before getting the 7970 is I'd get black screen when going from TV to PC input, but that card was also showing my TV as non HDCP compliant, even though my prior GTS 250 and current 7970 show it as HDCP compliant.

So with the TV first routing, compat and/or legal/HDCP issues could be the problem. With the AVR first routing, I don't know. I assumed most modern receivers that support ARC (which mine does) also support video pass through.

I really need someone like Irish_PXzyan to weigh in on this, because it would appear trying to configure my AVR for video pass through may be my only option at this point, if I have any HDMI audio options at all from the PC.

Jester, I'm trying to setup full HDMI audio and video vs the HDMI video, optical audio I'm using now. I've already talked at length with techs from Panasonic and Yamaha about this on more than one occasion each, and none of them could sort it out.


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## AsRock (Jul 28, 2013)

I use the CCC display driver package to install mine and only ever had a issue once.  Never knew realtek had drivers for the ATI card..


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## Frag_Maniac (Jul 28, 2013)

AsRock said:


> I use the CCC display driver package to install mine and only ever had a issue once.  Never knew realtek had drivers for the ATI card..



So do I, the one Jester was referring to is listed on the Realtek HD Audio driver page and is the 8th one down like he said, but I've never been able to get it to show as plugged in.

Many if not most of the chat I've read on these issues  involves people going into the AVR then into the TV. Maybe the reason I'm getting black screen going that route is because the AMD HDMI Audio Device won't show as plugged in.

If I can just get that one thing sorted, I might be able to do this.


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## AsRock (Jul 29, 2013)

Well with mine it's as simple as connecting the 2 HDMI cables and selecting on the AV OSD which port to which input then just installing CCC was like that with the 2 TV's i had before to ( Sammy \ VIZIO ).

So From Video card to AV to TV.

Only reason i even install the Realtek drivers is for the mic.

I do use these cables now aand only replaced my other due to length
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003L1ZYYM/?tag=tec06d-20


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## Mussels (Jul 29, 2013)

the problem is that HDMI + optical are not exactly technologies designed to play nice.

you really need to seperate your audio source if you want more than stereo, unless you have a HDMI receiver for your audio.


IIRC there was a device out there that could split the two, but that was ages ago i saw it. will google it and edit it in.


edit:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005H4Y6MM/?tag=tec06d-20



rhis splits HDMI to DVI + optical

you could then use a DVI to HDMI adaptor (lol) to get HDMI video + optical audio. your TV wouldnt control volume or anything but at least it would work.



edit 2: more expensive, but does exactly what you want

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005COKXCO/?tag=tec06d-20


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## Frag_Maniac (Jul 29, 2013)

Yeah I may get one of the Amazon 3m cables just to see if v1.4 does the trick, but I doubt that's it.

If by play nice you mean conflict with one another Mussels, I really haven't had an issue with that. In fact if it weren't for optical or coaxial, I'd have no audio pass through at all to my AVR.

I'm also not sure that device you linked to would work since I've not been able to get video pass through with my AVR to succeed. I'd have to send video to my TV like I'm currently doing, then audio via optical to the converter, then HDMI out of the converter to my receiver, and that just seems weird. I doubt I'd get the same audio that would be sent through HDMI from the source, and that device has very bad reviews.

The 2nd device is not at all what I'd want. It actually extracts and converts the HDMI audio (which I want to retain) to analog audio. My AVR has two pairs of analog audio inputs, but it's questionable whether they'd be able to retain the 5.1 signal, or deliver a lossless signal like HDMI does. Most games have compressed audio of course, but I'd like to be able to deliver lossless 5.1 PCM audio for purposes of FLAC or any other lossless audio formats.

Of the two devices the 1st might be the only one that would work at all though, unless I can somehow get Windows to recognize HDMI Audio devices other than my TV as being plugged in. With the present situation that HDMI audio extractor could very well not be able to even detect an HDMI audio signal.

As far as pass through hookup via the AVR, here's the manual if anyone can figure out if any input renaming is actually necessary, or how to do that to achieve the results I want. If not I'm going to see if I can find a local Yamaha AVR sales person that knows how to hook them up to a PC via pass through. I'd probably have to have my friend come with me with his laptop though.


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## Mussels (Jul 29, 2013)

that device would let you split your HDMI into two signals. one DVI video and one optical audio - and you put the optical straight to the speakers/receiver and bypass the TV.



the problem is simple: your TV allows 5.1 in, but only 2.0 out. if you want 5.1 out you have to bypass the TV entirely, using a non HDMI sound source - or splitting it out of the HDMI, and straight to your receiver.


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## Frag_Maniac (Jul 29, 2013)

Mussels said:


> that device would let you split your HDMI into two signals. one DVI video and one optical audio - and you put the optical straight to the speakers/receiver and bypass the TV.
> 
> 
> 
> the problem is simple: your TV allows 5.1 in, but only 2.0 out. if you want 5.1 out you have to bypass the TV entirely, using a non HDMI sound source - or splitting it out of the HDMI, and straight to your receiver.



I'm already running optical out from the PC to the AVR. I get what you're saying, but I think it still hinges on being able to get some kind of multi channel HDMI Audio config in the Windows sound panel. I don't see how that method would allow Windows to recognize a plugged in HDMI Audio source any better than what I've tried.

Some of those suggesting input matching and labeling in the AVR adjustments seem to indicate they have an AVR onscreen display and probably even an HDMI Audio Device showing in the Windows Sound panel before even messing with the inputs, but I have black screen and no HDMI Audio Device showing in the Windows Sound panel as plugged in, at least not a multi channel one anyway.


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## Jetster (Jul 29, 2013)

Were you aware optical will not work with uncompressed 5.1?  Only 2.1 and compressed 5.1

Uncompressed sound transmitted over SPDIF is always stereo

http://www.evga.com/forumsarchive/tm.asp?m=689534


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## Mussels (Jul 29, 2013)

wait i thought the problem was HDMI audio. you're already using optical on its own? then you need either a 5.1 source passed through untouched (EG, DVD/BD disc) or a soundcard with dolby live/dolby DTS encoding


my auzen






my realtek (feature of my gigabyte mobo, most realteks dont have it)


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## Jetster (Jul 29, 2013)

He wasnt clear in the first post on what is doing what to where


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## AsRock (Jul 29, 2013)

Mussels said:


> > the problem is that HDMI + optical are not exactly technologies designed to play nice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So true, i did not realize he was trying the optical too and with my ONKYO if the optical and HDMI output are to the same output it will disable my multichannel PCM using the sound from the  video card. Although i will still get 2.1 and don't get no grayed out shit.

Maybe same deal for you to ?.


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## Frag_Maniac (Jul 29, 2013)

Guys, guys, you are not following what I've been saying all along. Optical IS NOT preferred for me. The only reason I use it is I've not been able to get HDMI Audio to work, and I HAVE tried to use HDMI audio with NO optical hooked up. 

Even if I completely uninstall all Realtek Audio drivers, disable onboard sound in the BIOS, and disconnect the Optical cable, I still get no HDMI Audio multi channel device showing as plugged in. I can only get the TV showing as an AMD High Definition Audio Device, and that's only a stereo option.

I mean what do you expect, for me to use NO audio? Since multi channel HDMI audio is not working, I HAVE to use an alternative. I thought we were on the same page, but apparently not.

Now the talk is wandering toward installing a sound card for the purpose of a compressed Dolby option, when I've already stated above I want to get LOSSLESS PCM working thru HDMI. Compressed Dolby wouldn't really be any better than my AVR currently turning the stereo signal into Dolby Pro Logic II, and yes, I'm fully aware optical is stereo.

Part of the  problem may be that I'm using an older ASUS P6X58D-E MB, which may not support multi channel HDMI pass thru via the GPU. Some of you may say the MB doesn't come into play, just the GPU and AMD HDMI driver. Well why then can I only see an "AMD High Definition Audio Device" in the Windows Sound panel when I disable onboard sound?

Back to the AVR input labeling. Can anyone tell me if the input labels in the AVR have to exactly match the wording of the input labels of your TV just to get video showing on the TV when passing thru to it from the AVR, and to get the AMD HD Audio Devices showing as plugged in? If not, that doesn't appear to be the problem.


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## Mussels (Jul 29, 2013)

the stereo option is because your receiver (through the TV) is not supporting multi channel.

if you want lossless PCM, bitstreamed audio its very simple: connect your HDMI cable to your HDMI receiver prior to it connecting to the TV. that is the only way.


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## Jetster (Jul 29, 2013)

No, the labeling of inputs should not affect it. The Motherboard does come into play but that's not the problem here. The sound property could show as ATI Realtek HDMI or AMD Hd Audio ether one. You dont need to disable anything including on board audio. It should show two options in the sound properties. You set one as priority

PC > AVR > TV    

 You said in your first post


Frag Maniac said:


> I can get a working HDMI option in the Windows sound panel, but only as my stereo TV.


Sound shouldn't be coming out of your TV.....This is what you haven't been clear about

So do you get any sound out of your AVR thru the HDMI from you PC?

And BTW DD, DTS is miles better then prologic II. Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD are also lossless 8 channel 

one last thing. Whats your source?


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## Frag_Maniac (Jul 29, 2013)

It's not the AVR not supporting multi channel, it's the TV itself not being able to output multichannel, as many here have been saying.

That's what I thought on the input labeling, it should be only for the users's input  identification clarification, not their actual functionality. As I said though, the only way I get an AMD HD Audio Device showing as plugged in is if I disable onboard sound. Since some apparently don't have to do that, I think my MB is part of the problem. I read in some forum chat somewhere that certain owners of this type of MB were saying it is not licensed to support output of multi channel audio.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, again with the PC>AVR>TV, and like I've already said I've tried that but only get black screen and still no multi channel AMD HD Audio Device showing as plugged in. No audio, no video. And as I've said before, I wouldn't expect even audio from it since I can't even get a multi channel AMD HD Audio Device showing as plugged in. THAT I think in itself is the culprit, and it may be due to no licensing for it on the MB. It's a fairly common scenario though really. I've encountered just as many people saying they can't get HDMI audio working, as those saying they can, probably even more.

The sound coming out of the TV was only in the case of discovering that it's my only AMD HD Audio option, but just stereo. Obviously that is NOT my preferred solution, so I don't leave it that way. It was just one of several testing scenarios.

Yeah and ya don't have to tell me DD and DTS is better than Pro Logic II, I'm just saying neither compare to lossless.

Source off the PC is everything from games to browsers streamed videos, to x264 videos on my HDD, and they can have various audio formats. The best multi channel option I have is DPLII fo rgames, but MPC-HC can play DD on some videos I've played that have it encoded. I can set my AVR to "Straight" mode for PC use, but it only outputs 2.1 PCM.

I hate to say it but this is looking to be a waste of time. Even if someone with this exact same receiver were to step in at this point, the only thing they'd be able to tell me is how they labeled their inputs, and that doesn't appear to even matter much.


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## Mussels (Jul 30, 2013)

how about we start from the start here:


use a different screen, or just consider it irrelevant. NO audio from the TV/screen.

HDMI cable to your receiver, see what shows up. if it only shows 2.0 then the problem is the receiver, or your source files. if your receiver (and video card, i guess) doesnt support bitstreaming then it will ONLY work in 2.0 without pre-encoded files. try a DVD with DD audio to actually be sure.


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 1, 2013)

OK, after a lengthy chat session with a local custom PC builder, I'm still not able to get it working, but found some interesting info. 

1. I don't know why, but his Device Manager under sound, video and game controllers shows a UAA Bus driver, and mine does not. W7 Ultimate in both cases. Asrock MB on his vs my ASUS P6X58D-E.

2. Tried a 1.4 version HDMI cable straight into the AVR and still black screen. 

3. Tried setting the BIOS S/PDIF setting to HDMI, still black screen and no multi channel HDMI Device option.

I tried locating and installing the UAA Bus driver (TechSpot), but all it ended up being is a Realtek Azalia R2.51 driver, which obviously didn't solve the problem, nor did I see a UAA Bus driver in DV after installing it.

I (and the tech), thought it was weird that my BIOS shows an HDMI setting under a S/PIDF header. Also the Realtek HD Audio Manager when hovering over the HDMI icon on it's GUI shows an interactive hand, but no tooltip like the optical and coaxial icons do, even when the Realtek HDMI Audio Device is set as default device.

The more I look at this the more it looks like there's something strange about my MB and/or Realtek not supporting HDMI unless maybe on an ASUS MB that actually has an HDMI port. It could also be a compat problem between the two regarding HDMI via AMD, or HDMI via ANY video card, but I'm def thinking this has to be a compat issue.

We ended the call by agreeing that the best test for now might be to try and locate someone with a laptop that has HDMI out to see if it's possible to get a connection between it, the AVR, and the TV without black screen, and better yet, with a usable multi channel AMD HD Audio Device.

This guy really leans toward Asrock MBs and said over several years he's not had any such strange problems with them. I've been kinda leaning toward Asrock or Gigabyte for my next MB, and maybe a 3570k, but I don't know if I want to do another DDR3 upgrade. His opinion was RAM is a very secondary type part as far as formats go.

The main things I want to solve with my next upgrade are 1) the HDMI audio issues from the GPU, 2) a better (Intel) SATA 3 controller, and of course 3) more modern CPU support. Thus since I've been wanting to upgrade the MB anyway for better SATA 3 and CPU support, it would seem the logical step. 

I'd just like to find out ahead of time this go round if the one I choose is commonly successful as well with HDMI Audio thru the GPU, and preferably with both AMD and Nvidia, because come Maxwell, I really don't know which GPU camp I'll be with.


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## Mussels (Aug 1, 2013)

if you're using a dedicated GPU, the BIOS settings have nothing to do with it. those settings are for your onboard GPU/soundcard.


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## eidairaman1 (Aug 1, 2013)

hdmi is such a pain in the ass, component cables work better


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## Jetster (Aug 1, 2013)

eidairaman1 said:


> hdmi is such a pain in the ass, component cables work better



What?


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 1, 2013)

@ Mussels,
Yet the only way I get the TV showing as an AMD HD Audio Device is if I disable onboard, explain that?

@eidairaman,
Component working better? How so? I've read fairly extensive info that suggests it depends on the application, and that either can deliver video equally well. Since component doesn't deliver audio at all, let alone lossless audio, it's no wonder why most first try to get HDMI working. If it doesn't, the solution more common than component is to leave the HDMI cable plugged in and just pipe the audio in via optical or coaxial.

Where PCs are concerned, multi channel audio implementation problems started well before HDMI ports were prevalent on GPUs. It started when MS yanked HAL support.


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## Jetster (Aug 1, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> 2. Tried a 1.4 version HDMI cable straight into the AVR and still black screen.



This is your issue. Solve this and your done. What GPU you using? In fact list all your hardware


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## Mussels (Aug 1, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> @ Mussels,
> Yet the only way I get the TV showing as an AMD HD Audio Device is if I disable onboard, explain that?



i've got three AMD systems in the house, two with onboard AMD + discrete AMD GPU's, then mine with dual discrete.

none of them have that issue. unless you've failed to tell it to show hidden devices, something must be wrong with your hardware - possibly your TV/receiver.

you keep mentioning an AVR without once naming it, or telling us its specs. maybe its the problem.


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## Jetster (Aug 1, 2013)

Another thing that might be the issue is: If your AVR does not have HDMI Upscaling it will not work HDMI to Component. It has to be HDMI to HDMI. Component to Component


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 1, 2013)

Guys, look at my sys spec chart, it's all there, including GPU and AVR, the latter under sound card. Unfortunately TPU's spec chart is not AVR friendly. LOL

Be back to comment more after MasterChef.


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## Jetster (Aug 1, 2013)

I'm watching it also. So if you have HDMI from your GPU to your RX-V371 then HDMI to your TV and dont have a picture. You need to call Yamaha. Does it have a picture if you connect directly to your TV?


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 1, 2013)

Yeah, of course it has picture straight from PC to TV, otherwise I couldn't see what I'm typing. LOL

I've already spoken to Yamaha techs more than once and they weren't sure why I get no picture when going through the AVR. The corporate techs be it Panasonic, Yamaha, etc, don't seem to be all that good at troubleshooting, and I've heard others say the same.

Manual for AVR if anyone's interested, though I actually put it  in post # 14 on the 1st page of this thread. Apparently no one noticed: http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset/file/?language=sv&site=se.yamaha.com&asset_id=23367


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## Mussels (Aug 1, 2013)

its kinda hard to tell remotely whats going on with so many variables.

if its working direct to the TV (minus surround sound) then the PC end seems ok. your problem seems to be with the AVR. its either setup wrong, or its faulty (no picture)


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 1, 2013)

Mussels said:


> your problem seems to be with the AVR. its either setup wrong, or its faulty (no picture)



Yeah regardless of the sound issue one would think if the AVR is supposed to support video pass through I'd at least get a picture when going through it then the TV.

That said, it still doesn't explain why I can't get a multi channel AMD HD Audio Device showing as plugged in in the Windows Sound panel.


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## Mussels (Aug 1, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> Yeah regardless of the sound issue one would think if the AVR is supposed to support video pass through I'd at least get a picture when going through it then the TV.
> 
> That said, it still doesn't explain why I can't get a multi channel AMD HD Audio Device showing as plugged in in the Windows Sound panel.



that could be part of the problem, a compatibility issue. have you seen the AVR work fully with any other devices?


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 1, 2013)

Mussels said:


> have you seen the AVR work fully with any other devices?



Haven't gotten that far yet. Like I said I'm going to see if any of my friends with laptops might have one with HDMI out and try using it first as the PC in the loop, then the display.

The latter might be a bit harder to do though since I think it takes a connection method other than HDMI to use a LT as a display.


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## Dent1 (Aug 1, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> It still doesn't explain why I can't get a multi channel AMD HD Audio Device showing as plugged in in the Windows Sound panel.



I'm not going to read the entire thread, because that would be insanity 

But to get multi channel PCM, the source still needs to be originally 5.0 or 5.1.

To clarify, you need to be watching DVD that features Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1. Then you can turn off the pass-through mode and listen in regular PCM 5.1. But the 5 channels need to be present first. If you're playing back a regular stereo MP3 file, PCM 5.1 will be unavailable whether your hardware supports it or not. 

If it's hooked up to the TV, the television show broadcast needs still needs to be outputted in 5 channels to utilise PCM 5.1, likewise for any console connected to the receiver, the game needs 5 native channels present, otherwise the receiver will pick it up as PCM 2.0.


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 1, 2013)

Some progress, but not enough to make a difference. Meaning I got video pass thru working via connecting the PC to HDMI 4 of the AVR, leaving the HDMI out on the AVR connected to the TV's main (ARC) input. In this way if I leave the AVR on HDMI 4, I can switch between TV and PC.

The problem however is I still get no HDMI audio passing through from the PC, and now I don't even see the AMD HD Audio Devices showing in the Windows Sound panel, even if I have S/PDIF set to HDMI in the BIOS.

Oddly enough, one of the links the tech I spoke to yesterday sent me from Yamaha's FAQ for this receiver in showing how to set the AVR up for video pass through from a PC, suggests that it has to be done in conjunction with an Optical audio cable.
http://faq.yamaha.com/us/en/article/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/rx/rx-v371_black__u/5792/6041/

I then looked at the whole FAQ list for this AVR and the 2nd one shown titled "The HDMI audio and video signals on the RX-V371/HTR-3064 are not outputting on the Receiver speakers and the TV Screen", only talks about non PC sources such as cable, sat, Blu-ray, etc.
http://faq.yamaha.com/us/en/article/index/id/6029/?search_query=RX-V371&current_page_id=1

So it would appear this AVR is not equipped to handle multi channel HDMI audio from a PC. I also noticed in the manual I linked earlier that there is a Euro version with the same model # that comes with calibration software and mic, which mine didn't. The US versions are even speced differently on THD.

So I'm just going to set it back the way I had it because I'll have the best chance of maintaining picture quality without passing thru the AVR. This setup also causes me to have to use about 5% underscan on PC, and I hear occasional pops too.

(EDITED)
Set it back the way it was, and I still don't see any AMD HD Audio Devices in the Windows Sound panel, weird. I know the AMD HDMI driver is installed because I've seen it in the AMD folder. Do you have to uninstall the Realtek ATI HDMI driver for it to show?

(EDITED 2)
OK, uninstalling the Realtek ATI HDMI driver got the AMD HD Audio Devices showing again in the Windows Sound panel. Just in the off chance they'll show as plugged in with the AVR set in video pass through, I'm going to hook it up that way one more time. If not, I'm done with this and the thread can be closed, unless anyone wants to recommend an affordable solution, but at this point I'm thinking the AVR would have to be replaced.


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## Dent1 (Aug 1, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> So it would appear this AVR is not equipped to handle multi channel HDMI audio from a PC..



Read my above. I already explained. Nothing to do with the receiver, but the source.


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## eidairaman1 (Aug 2, 2013)

component cables utilize the sound card.





Frag Maniac said:


> @ Mussels,
> Yet the only way I get the TV showing as an AMD HD Audio Device is if I disable onboard, explain that?
> 
> @eidairaman,
> ...


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 2, 2013)

@Dent,
Tell me why then people are saying they get the multi channel config option in the Windows Sound panel when outputting from the HDMI port on the video card?

@eidairaman,
Component cables do not carry audio, that's why they are called Component Video cables and are colored red, blue, and green to signify specifically the video colors they carry.


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## AsRock (Aug 2, 2013)

Select the device which is the AMD HDMI Output and click configure, wellt hats all i have to do and run a multi channel game and it should change.

And i have no idea why you have to use the realtek drivers and since i had my card only 1 version ( a beta ) had troubles for me.


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## Dent1 (Aug 2, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> @Dent,
> Tell me why then people are saying they get the multi channel config option in the Windows Sound panel when outputting from the HDMI port on the video card?




Because they either can't distinguish between PCM 2.0 and 0 multi channel or they're playing back material with 5-7 discrete channels already such as a bluray disc, hence why multi channel PCM is unlocked as the audio cues are already there.

Think of it like this. Multi Channel PCM, just means discrete 5 channels derived from lossless content. Front left, front right, rear left, rear right, and centre. How Is windows supposed to send the relevant information to the rear and centre channel when the MP3s you're playing only have instructions for the fronts? 

What AsRock said above me was sort of correct, but it won't 100% solve you issue. 

On my Onkyo, doing what AsRock said will enable multi channel for me too. But when I go play a MP3 because there is only 2 channels I get a bodged up remix. Playing a few games like Max Payne 3, the remix is so bad the dialogue doesn't come from the centre speaker like its supposed to but instead a weird ambient noise, again because there is no cue.

The only way so solve it was to use the DTS connect or DTS Live feature on my sound card. I know you're was complaining earlier about it being compressed but your logic is flawed because the bitrate and quality in general from games are compressed anyways. So you won't be getting lossless sound with multi channel unless the source is lossless to begin with i.e. a blue ray disc.


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 2, 2013)

"...run a multi channel game and it should *change*"

@AsRock,
Change? Are you saying if you configure it at desktop you only get the stereo option, and have to have a game running and minimized to see the 5.1 channel option? 

I never said I have to use the Realtek driver, it's just one of the options I tried in my trouble shooting, and I also tried AMD HDMi with no Realtek driver installed, as I said.

@Dent,
All I know is people have said they can play games in multi channel 5.1  PCM, and I never said gaming with PCM would be losslees, I meant it would sound better with PCM because PCM itself is lossless, and therefore doesn't add any more compression.

I HAVE however often thought that because game audio is compressed, forgoing PCM is not nearly as big a deal as if it weren't. I play music in PCM 2.1, Yamaha's "Straight" mode, and sometimes I forget to put it back on 5.1 when I switch to gaming. Games played over 2.1 PCM don't sound hugely different than via DPLII, since you're starting out with a compressed signal.

As far as a sound card, not sure I'd want to spend more than $40 and I can't find any at that price range that have DD and DTS that are also good quality with fairly good SNR. There's a SIIG with like 96 SNR, but meh, I don't know, it doesn't even say what audio chipset it has.


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## Dent1 (Aug 2, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> "...run a multi channel game and it should *change*"
> 
> @AsRock,
> Change? Are you saying if you configure it at desktop you only get the stereo option, and have to have a game running and minimized to see the 5.1 channel option?



Yes that is what Asrock meant, 

For example in Max Payne 3 the available audio selection is dependant on Window's Sound properties the speaker setup. A more specific example, if I select a stereo configuration within Window's sound properties then within Max Payne's audio menu only headphone and stereo are available. To unlock the surround sound option within Max Payne's audio menu I have to select a 5 or 7 channel configuration within Windows -This gives me Multi Channel highlighted on my receiver too but as explained earlier it's mixed incorrectly and the dialogue isn't doesn't come from the centre as it should be.




Frag Maniac said:


> I never said gaming with PCM would be lossless, I meant it would sound better with PCM because PCM itself is lossless, and therefore doesn't add any more compression.



Dolby Digital won't add additional compression, the term compression you are misusing. We only say Dolby Digital is compressed because traditionally it's maximum bitrate and frequency was capped to make all 5 channels travel through a fibre cable.  If your sources bitrate and frequency exceeds the specification, it won't recompress it, Dolby Digital just will not work.


If you're talking about PCM 2.0 vs Dolby Digital 2.0, then PCM 2.0 would be more crisper and less compressed on a theoretical level because Dolby Digital is capped at 48 kHz, where as PCM 2.0 can handle 24-bit/192 kHz and greater.  But the source which you are listening to MP3s, games, CDs, the quality is lower than even Dolby Digitals specification so in reality there will be virtually no difference. 

LPCM (multi channel PCM) to Dolby Digital True HD and DTS HD Masters which are found on bluray disc. But with the new HD standards, Dolby Digital True HD and DTS HD Masters which are also uncompressed and lossless there is no real benefit picking LPCM.  Keep in mind the sound track needs to be in LPCM to output  LPCM, likewise only a Dolby Digital True HD soundtrack can output Dolby Digital True HD.




Frag Maniac said:


> sometimes I forget to put it back on 5.1 when I switch to gaming. Games played over 2.1 PCM don't sound hugely different than via DPLII, since you're starting out with a compressed signal.



It's not because of compressions, it's because Prologic IIx doesn't do much matrix to the front channels, only adds a center and a crappy attempt at forge rears. But the front right & left stays almost intact.


Also Prologic is done at the receiver level, so the high quality PCM 2.0 frequencies isn't interrupted by the limitations of the fibre/coaxial cable before getting up-mixed. Whereas the actual DD signal needs to be present and meet certain quality requirements before it goes through he fibre/coaxial cable otherwise it would fail at the receiver level.





Frag Maniac said:


> As far as a sound card, not sure I'd want to spend more than $40 and I can't find any at that price range that have DD and DTS that are also good quality with fairly good SNR. There's a SIIG with like 96 SNR, but meh, I don't know, it doesn't even say what audio chipset it has.



I bought my ASUS Xonar DS 7.1 Sound on Ebay for about £20. It doesn't support Dolby Digital Live, but it supports the DTS equivalent, DTS connect.


You can then use your video cards HDMI output for pass-through of LPCM, DD True HD and DTS HD Masters content on authentic Bluray movies. So you get best of both worlds.

ASUS Xonar DS 7.1 Channels 24-bit 24 bit 44.10 kHz...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/37F9-Asus-X...=US_Sound_Cards_Internal_&hash=item56595f68c3
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-Xonar-...=US_Sound_Cards_Internal_&hash=item3f279ac9b0


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 2, 2013)

You appear to be describing what AsRock meant as different from what I meant though. The change I was asking about was whether the config option in the Windows Sound panel changes from stereo only to multi channel options when a game or other multi channel prog is running, not whether the game's audio options in the game menu changes. If the Windows Sound panel options don't change it won't matter, because that is the point where I reach an impasse. I also don't get why I can play my x64 movies in MPC-HC that are encoded with DD and get the AVR picking that up fine, without even configuring the Windows Sound panel to multi channel audio. I understand the DD itself is possible via the LAV plugins I use, but if you have to configure the Windows Sound panel to 5.1 for games, why wouldn't you have to for these x264 vids?

Actually I was comparing PCM to DPLII, since that was the scenario I was describing, and I'm fully aware DD has better channel separation and positional audio than DPLII. I was only referring to the differences in the clarity of sound itself, not the discreteness of channels or positional accuracy. Obviously DPLII is a sim matrix and not true surround, and I would rather not use it.

And yes a PCM option is found on some Blu-ray discs, esp concert discs, but I've never seen it in anything more than stereo.

On the sound card, I'd prefer DTS whenever it's an option, but unfortunately most games are DD, so to buy one that's only DTS and not DD would seem a waste to me.


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 2, 2013)

Well, tried it using the AVR as the default AMD HD Audio playback device, and with a multi channel game running and minimized I still get only a stereo option in the Windows Sound panel. Worse yet, with the AVR as first device in the loop, I can't even get ANY audio actually playing back even in stereo. I used the HDMI 4 port as per Yamaha's FAQ for HDMI connection to a PC, and obviously have it on that input selection, otherwise I don't even get the desktop showing, but in that FAQ it also says to use an Optical audio cable with it.

So the two weird things are that and the fact that my MB BIOS shows HDMI as an option only under the S/PDIF header in advanced onboard options. If I select HDMI though, the only HDMI options that show in the Windows Sound panel are the TV and Realtek. If I disable the Realtek HD Audio in the BIOS, the S/PDIF header below it and in turn it's HDMI option, completely disappears as a BIOS option.

So if the impasse is not at the AVR, it may be that this MB and/or BIOS, only support the old S/PDIF pass through type HDMI that older GPUs used before the ones with their own audio driver came out. It could as well be the AVR though. That FAQ page for PC hookup via HDMI saying to use an Optical cable doesn't exactly give me confidence in it.

I called Yamaha yet again today, and got fed up with the guy in their so called "tech" dept that answered, whom appeared to be one of their call center staff from India that handle overflow at peak times of day. Come next AVR I'm not sure I want to trust Yamaha. For now I might just get something like the Xonar DS for the DTS Connect. I probably should have bought it back when it was on rebate for $33.


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## Dent1 (Aug 2, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> I also don't get why I can play my x64 movies in MPC-HC that are encoded with DD and get the AVR picking that up fine, without even configuring the Windows Sound panel to multi channel audio. I understand the DD itself is possible via the LAV plugins I use, but if you have to configure the Windows Sound panel to 5.1 for games, why wouldn't you have to for these x264 vids?





x64 movie files are often encoded in DD already, often the torrent is ripped from a TV broadcast which was originally aired with DD, or it was ripped from a actual DVD or bluray disc. The guy that stole the video just encoded it and just kept the original DD audio intact. Games don't have DD on the soundtrack.





Frag Maniac said:


> And yes a PCM option is found on some Blu-ray discs, esp concert discs, but I've never seen it in anything more than stereo.



This website here will help your search.  http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/Stats.php





Frag Maniac said:


> On the sound card, I'd prefer DTS whenever it's an option, but unfortunately most games are DD, so to buy one that's only DTS and not DD would seem a waste to me.



Games don't have DD or DTS on the soundtrack.  Most game publishers don't have the budget get a license like a blockbuster movie production.

Games are recorded in PCM Stereo, or a specific number of PCM channels. All Dolby Digital Live or DTS connect does is detect the number of available channels. If 5 channels or more are detected it and encodes it to either DTS 5.1 or DD 5.1.  

If 2 channels are detected it applies a DTS NEO or DD Prologic upmix ontop before encoding it to DTS 5.1 or DTS 5.1

Without an encoding sound card, the only thing you can get in games is PCM, and Multi Channel PCM in some situations. Prologic IIx and DTS Neo can be applied to the PCM on the receiver level.



----------



Frag Maniac said:


> Well, tried it using the AVR as the default AMD HD Audio playback device, and with a multi channel game running and minimized I still get only a stereo option in the Windows Sound panel. Worse yet, with the AVR as first device in the loop, I can't even get ANY audio actually playing back even in stereo. I used the HDMI 4 port as per Yamaha's FAQ for HDMI connection to a PC, and obviously have it on that input selection, otherwise I don't even get the desktop showing, but in that FAQ it also says to use an Optical audio cable with it.
> 
> So the two weird things are that and the fact that my MB BIOS shows HDMI as an option only under the S/PDIF header in advanced onboard options. If I select HDMI though, the only HDMI options that show in the Windows Sound panel are the TV and Realtek. If I disable the Realtek HD Audio in the BIOS, the S/PDIF header below it and in turn it's HDMI option, completely disappears as a BIOS option.
> 
> ...



I think your motherboard has limitations with HDMI out.

Asus website doesn't mention HDMI once in the specification. But mentions Coaxial and SPDIF http://uk.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1366/P6X58DE/#specifications

Realtek's specification for the ALC889 chipset says "Support for 16/20/24-bit SPDIF input and output with up to 192kHz sample rate offers easy connection of PCs to consumer electronic products such as digital decoders and speakers. The ALC889 also features secondary SPDIF-OUT output and converter to transport digital audio output to a High Definition Media Interface (HDMI) transmitter."

So it doesn't support HDMI fully, it's a dodgy gimped workaround, this means you can't transmit video + audio simultaneously or utilise Dolby Digital True HD, LPCM or DTS HD Masters because it will have SPDIF bandwidth limitations. For regular PCM, Dolby Digital and DTS signals this method is fine.

Saying that, why don't you use your 7970. 7000 series supports HDMI fully.


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 2, 2013)

LOL, man, I keep repeating myself. AGAIN, when I try to enable HDMI in the MB BIOS, it seems a mere S/PDIF pass through like you said. When I try disabling the Realtek HD Audio, HDMI Audio options in the Windows Sound panel disappear.

You said earlier in SOME situations PCM multi channel is an option, well WHAT situations then? What mountains does one have to friggin move to get such an option? Please tell me, that's all I want to know so I don't buy any more lemon friggin crap!!!

The ASUS tech I'm currently chatting with has suggested there's something wrong with the video card since it won't output HDMI audio, or show as a pluged in HDMI audio device.

Wait, since there's multiple friggin instances of AMD HDMI Audio Devices showing, for Eyefinity I assume, *what if I change one or more of the settings in CCC?* Might that help Windows detect the Video card as a *plugged in* HDMI audio device?


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## Dent1 (Aug 2, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> LOL, man, I keep repeating myself. AGAIN, when I try to enable HDMI in the MB BIOS, it seems a mere S/PDIF pass through like you said. When I try disabling the Realtek HD Audio, HDMI Audio options in the Windows Sound panel disappear.
> 
> You said earlier in SOME situations PCM multi channel is an option, well WHAT situations then? What mountains does one have to friggin move to get such an option? Please tell me, that's all I want to know so I don't buy any more lemon friggin crap!!!?




I was able to get it using Asrocks solution on post #46  back when I had my 5850 connected to my receiver via HDMI output (dialogue was dodgy). Now I'm using a proper soundcard with only SPDIF so that solution only warrants me PCM 2.0 now.

I know it can be frustrating, soundcard manufacturers know this and play on our naivety and make us by stuff we don't fully understand.




Frag Maniac said:


> The ASUS tech I'm currently chatting with has suggested there's something wrong with the video card since it won't output HDMI audio, or show as a pluged in HDMI audio device.
> 
> Wait, since there's multiple friggin instances of AMD HDMI Audio Devices showing, for Eyefinity I assume, what if I change one or more of the settings in CCC? Might that help Windows detect the Video card as an HDMI audio device?



I'm confused are you talking about the Sapphire 7970 here? You enable the audio from the audio properties disable the motherboard's audio so only the 7970's audio card is enabled. You might need to connect the monitor to your AV receiver input, and then connect the receiver directly to the video card's HDMI out.  This way your receiver manages both video and audio from the video card.


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 2, 2013)

Yes, I'm talking about just the video card's HDMI out, that's how I'm trying to connect now but I  can NEVER get any of the multiple instances of AMD HDMI Audio Devices showing as plugged in, even with all other devices disabled.







You're saying now you don't even use multi channel PCM, WHY? Most everyone I've talked to that has used it prefers it, and is it common or not to be able to use it with games? If not, hell, screw it, I'll just get a sound card or upgrade to a AVR with DDL or DTS Connect.


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## Dent1 (Aug 3, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> Yes, I'm talking about just the video card's HDMI out, that's how I'm trying to connect now but I  can NEVER get any of the multiple instances of AMD HDMI Audio Devices showing as plugged in, even with all other devices disabled.
> 
> http://imageshack.us/a/img802/4224/km6q.jpg
> 
> You're saying now you don't even use multi channel PCM, WHY? Most everyone I've talked to that has used it prefers it, and is it common or not to be able to use it with games? If not, hell, screw it, I'll just get a sound card or upgrade to a AVR with DDL or DTS Connect.



That "not plugged in" is a driver related bug. It's not supposed to do that. Uninstall everything Catalyst related and reinstall and see what happens.

Multi Channel is decent when you encounter a game with 5 audio channels as it maps the position relatively accurately to the correct speaker (with the exception of the odd center speaker abnormality) but when I play MP3s or watch YouTube videos which are 2 channels the front duplicate to the rears and the speech doesn't come from the center but comes from the fronts and backs simultaneously. So I'm forced to switch to Prologic on my receiver for everything other than certain games which is a hassle.  It's easier to use the DTS connect feature on my soundcard and let it manage itself. The dialogue is always in the center and the positional audio is always accurate. Also there is a humbling comfort seeing a constant red "DTS" light on. 

The only time I don't use DTS connect is when I'm watching a HD TV show like Game of Thrones which I know has DD encoded or I'm watching a proper DVD Disc. I set Media player Classic to SPDIF by default, so I don't have to fiddle with the settings it just detects DD as soon as the movie plays and when it finishes it goes back to DTS automatically.


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 3, 2013)

Honestly, you know how many times I've already tried a clean reinstall of everything AMD? I always use their cleanup utility, then Driver Sweeper, then reboot, then check in DS to make sure no AMD is showing before installing them. I also rolled back to Cat 13.4 just in case it was a beta problem, and I tried uninstalling all Realtek audio drivers first too. I think maybe these AMD HDMI drivers just don't play well with my MB.

What about CCC settings like I asked? Is there a away to disable the Eyefinity option in CCC to maybe get ONE AMD HDMI option that's actually USABLE?

I'm fed up with this and I've gotten nothing but incompetent flippant people at Yamaha and ASUS pawning it off on someone else. Yamaha claims it's PC settings, ASUS claims it's a GPU problem, and both along the way can't even answer simple questions. Sapphire has this annoying ticket submission where afterward you have to register, and it said I typed in the wrong picture code before submitting my registration, even though it was obviously correct. What a fucking joke. There's no competence or concern whatsoever in the PC component industry anymore. It's no wonder a lot of people stick with consoles.

The weird thing is, after all you've said, it's sounding like multi channel PCM on PC is not what it's cracked up to be anyway. There's probably few games that support it, and if it just creates nightmares with switching to different sources like YT, etc, I can't see it. The thing is, now I'm too pissed at ASUS to want to give them anymore money for a sound card, and I'm not convinced the DS model I'm looking at wouldn't be a driver nightmare anyway. A lot of people say it is.

(EDITED)
Almost forgot, one of the ASUS chat guys actually suggested going here for a "CCCP" codec pack. http://cccp-project.net/

I about shit bricks when I saw that. Anyone know about this? It's like some of these support chat guys just do random Google searches without checking sources, and when I asked him that, I got transferred to someone else. They transferred me several times btw. They ought to make a video game about consumers going bersek on these assholes and putting them out of their friggin misery. Do it Payday style, but call it Payback. LOL


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## eidairaman1 (Aug 3, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> @Dent,
> Tell me why then people are saying they get the multi channel config option in the Windows Sound panel when outputting from the HDMI port on the video card?
> 
> @eidairaman,
> Component cables do not carry audio, that's why they are called Component Video cables and are colored red, blue, and green to signify specifically the video colors they carry.



Yeah, G= Y R= Pr, B= Pb.

http://www.monoprice.com/Product/?c...d=1023501&p_id=4715&seq=1&format=1#largeimage

and whats so funny is you can use component cables on composite jacks because they are both RCA,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCA_connector

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phone_connector_(audio).

heres the thing dude since it seems too complex for you, K.I.S.S.


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 3, 2013)

eidairaman1 said:


> ...heres the thing dude since it seems too complex for you, K.I.S.S.


Seriously, you're going to play the noob card when you're the one suggesting a WAY more expensive cable than you need on the crappiest of all audio connects, mere composite? Are you friggin kidding me? That's laughable. Component has nothing to do with composite, save for both having RCA plugs, and you first made it sound like component cables are designed for carrying audio. They aren't, and just because they CAN function for just audio (but never video AND audio) doesn't mean it's practical to use them that way. Only an idiot would buy expensive RCA cables designed to filter RBG and only use them for audio. I think you're the one that's reached his saturation point complexity wise, "dude". LOL

@AsRock,
Yes I do, and that's the ONLY way I can get sound from the GPU's HDMI port, but only via the TV's speakers, so obviously it doesn't do much good.

It seems the only real difference between your setup and mine since you are also using AMD GPUs, is your AVR and MB, both which are parts in my loop I'm skeptical about. The MB because of it needing Realtek onboard enabled to even get HDMI sound options, and the AVR because it's FAQ page on PC connectivity suggests an optical cable need be used.

What I've gleaned from this is A) some whom advocate multi channel PCM don't really seem to use it, B) it takes a sound card or DDL capable AVR to get better than DPLII in games, and C), I'm not sure if it's worth it for just the interim to get a sound card while waiting to upgrade to a better MB and AVR, esp given the driver problems there are often no easier to deal with. I doubt it's the GPU itself, but it could be AMD's HDMI driver being extremely finicky to install or not being compatible with one of my components or even software filters I use, such as the LAV plugins for MPC-HC.

Question for those of you using HDMI audio from your GPUs? In your MB BIOS, where is the HDMI option listed, and do you turn off the onboard chip? I think that may be the one design flaw of this MB, but I'm not so keen on the AVR either. Since I plan to upgrade the CPU and MB anyway though, that would be my first big step. Still toying with the idea of a sound card though.


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 3, 2013)

Dent, what sound card do you use to get DTS? I don't recall you saying. I can get the Xonar DS  for $40, but the last drivers for it were over 2 yrs ago.


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## Dent1 (Aug 3, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> Dent, what sound card do you use to get DTS? I don't recall you saying. I can get the Xonar DS  for $40, but the last drivers for it were over 2 yrs ago.



Yes I have the Xonar DS. Don't worry the drivers work and I've never encountered an issue. 

There are plenty of modded drivers which get constant updates. I've never used them and rather the official Asus or C-media driver. If it isn't broke why fix it?

http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 3, 2013)

Dent1 said:


> Yes I have the Xonar DS. Don't worry the drivers work and I've never encountered an issue.
> 
> There are plenty of modded drivers which get constant updates. I've never used them and rather the official Asus or C-media driver. If it isn't broke why fix it?
> 
> http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/



OK, thanks, just wasn't sure. You know, you read a lot of customer reviews, and many seem PC knowledgeable, yet still report problems, so I had to ask someone that I know sounds competent.

Do you get any small hassles other than mode switching? Any clicks, pops, etc? I take it you have to use digital coaxial with those, and of course it should encode DTS into the pass through right? I have only optical cables, so I may have to break down and buy a coaxial if I get one. Oh, one last thing, those have swappable opamps don't they, or is that a different model I'm thinking of? Do the stock ones sound good to you, not too bright or muffled?


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## Dent1 (Aug 4, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> Do you get any small hassles other than mode switching? Any clicks, pops, etc? I take it



No. But I did have those issues with my Creative Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1 




Frag Maniac said:


> you have to use digital coaxial with those, and of course it should encode DTS into the pass through right? have only optical cables, so I may have to break down and buy a coaxial if I get one.



This card only supports fibre optical, and yes it encodes DTS.



Frag Maniac said:


> I Oh, one last thing, those have swappable opamps don't they, or is that a different model I'm thinking of? Do the stock ones sound good to you, not too bright or muffled?



Yes it's swappable, but this doesn't affect digital only analogue which you're not using


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 4, 2013)

Dent1 said:


> This card only supports fibre optical...


I just looked in the DS manual and apparently that little doo hicky shown in the included parts kit is a Toslink to mini Toslink adapter, so I should be able to connect with what I have, but I don't really like using adapters. Do you use the adapter, or a mini Toslink to Toslink cable? Oddly enough the manual calls the SPDIF out a "combo" jack, claiming you can use coaxial with it as well, but some have said the manual is wrong on that.

BTW, in doing further testing to see if I can get HDMI audio working, I found I not only don't have to have the Realtek drivers installed, It doesn't matter whether I use THE SPDIF or HDMI setting in the BIOS when enabling a sound device via the built-in MS HD Audio. Unfortunately the AMD HDMI HD Audio Devices still show as unplugged though. 

About the only other thing I haven't tried is installing the CCCP codec pack which claims to resolve codec conflicts, but I found out 3 of the five items it installs I already had on my system (MPC-HC, Haali, LAV). I may try it anyway. It even installs MPC-HC with settings for best compatibility. I worry it would keep me from using the MadVR plugin though, which gives MPC-HC better image quality.

BTW, you never answered my question on PCM as far as how many games support multi channel PCM. Is it only a few?


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## Dent1 (Aug 5, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> I just looked in the DS manual and apparently that little doo hicky shown in the included parts kit is a Toslink to mini Toslink adapter, so I should be able to connect with what I have, but I don't really like using adapters. Do you use the adapter, or a mini Toslink to Toslink cable? Oddly enough the manual calls the SPDIF out a "combo" jack, claiming you can use coaxial with it as well, but some have said the manual is wrong on that.




All modern soundcards with Fibre use the adapter. The entire Xonar range, Creative X-Fi Prelude, Creative Titanium HD, all of the Auzentech range. It's a cheaper way of making one jack into two. I use the adapter, but nothing is stopping you from using mini Toslink to Toslink cable. 

I tried connecting a Coaxial cable to my Asus DS and it didn't fit. So either I'm doing it wrong or there is a mistake in the manual. 





Frag Maniac said:


> BTW, in doing further testing to see if I can get HDMI audio working, I found I not only don't have to have the Realtek drivers installed, It doesn't matter whether I use THE SPDIF or HDMI setting in the BIOS when enabling a sound device via the built-in MS HD Audio. Unfortunately the AMD HDMI HD Audio Devices still show as unplugged though.



Your card might be faulty.





Frag Maniac said:


> BTW, you never answered my question on PCM as far as how many games support multi channel PCM. Is it only a few?



Games don't support multi channel PCM, they support specific number of audio channels. It's up to your receiver to detect the correct amount of channels and apply multi channel if the correct amount of channels are available, or Dolby Prologic or DTS Neo depending on your selection.

I haven't got it working enough to warrant the headache. Even when it works it doesn't work. As I said earlier 9/10 the dialogue isn't routed through the center or you get strange ambient noises from the center or even worst stereo duplicated to the rears. Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect solves all issues and takes away the stress.


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## Mussels (Aug 5, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> I just looked in the DS manual and apparently that little doo hicky shown in the included parts kit is a Toslink to mini Toslink adapter, so I should be able to connect with what I have, but I don't really like using adapters. Do you use the adapter, or a mini Toslink to Toslink cable? Oddly enough the manual calls the SPDIF out a "combo" jack, claiming you can use coaxial with it as well, but some have said the manual is wrong on that.
> 
> BTW, in doing further testing to see if I can get HDMI audio working, I found I not only don't have to have the Realtek drivers installed, It doesn't matter whether I use THE SPDIF or HDMI setting in the BIOS when enabling a sound device via the built-in MS HD Audio. Unfortunately the AMD HDMI HD Audio Devices still show as unplugged though.
> 
> ...



i use CCCP. its compatible with mad VR, and completely unrelated to your issue.


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 5, 2013)

Mussels said:


> i use CCCP. its compatible with mad VR, and completely unrelated to your issue.



I wasn't saying it is, I've had intermittent garbled audio on YouTube and other streamed vids, as well as even in some games when cutscenes play, and it's said to resolve possible codec conflicts, so I thought I'd give it a try. When it installed it immediately recognized Nero's MP4 codec as a possible problem, so I let it uninstall it.

I also figured it was compatible with MadVR after reading more about it actually having the MadVR filter pre-installed in the latest versions, though I had to update to the latest version of MadVR because the one that came with it doesn't have the new smoothing feature that resists judder.

Upon uninstalling Realtek though I noticed something odd. I usually trust Driver Sweeper's analyse results, and it showed no Realtek audio after cleaning with it, but my Revo Uninstaller app still showed it, so I used Revo to finish cleaning it out.

Anyways, I got it CCCP all installed and went through the MadVR, LAV, xy-VSFilter configuring guide I use on AVS Forums again, but this time they had it updated to include a lot of tweaks I hadn't done before. I'll get a good idea of how it works tonight after playing Dexter on it.

For now no garbled audio, knock on wood. Wish someone would answer that one question on multi channel PCM in games though. Is it common or can you only get it in a few games? I can't help but think it's only a few games if Dent sees fit to play most games in DTS.

Also, it occurred to me after asking Dent all those questions about the Xonar DS and DTS Connect, if it encodes any game's stereo signal into DTS, why are only some games actually encoded in DTS, and why does my AVR not decode the ones that are?


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## Mussels (Aug 5, 2013)

let me put it this way:


if your receiver requires an encoded input (dolby digital, DTS, and the blu ray equivalents) then without a sound card capable of encoding, you're gunna be stuck with stereo for music and games. the end.


if you want 'true' 5.1 then you need a sound card and receiver compatible with bit streaming. (or DD/DTS live if you're back on optical/coax)


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 5, 2013)

Not really what I'm asking. I'm more or less asking what's the point of some devs encoding games with DTS if a sound card that encodes it onto ANY stereo signal can play ANY game in DTS, because according to what you and others are saying, it still takes a DTS capable sound card even if your AVR decodes DTS, even with games that are already encoded with DTS.


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## Mussels (Aug 5, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> Not really what I'm asking. I'm more or less asking what's the point of some devs encoding games with DTS if a sound card that encodes it onto ANY stereo signal can play ANY game in DTS.



i think you've got that confused.


some games support DD/DTS encoding (mostly  console ports) so that they can have MORE than stereo.


there is no point at all, encoding stereo to anything - the entire point of encoding is to fit more channels than two.


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 5, 2013)

I guess that's why the DTS site only shows console box shots on their list of supported games.
http://www.dts.com/consumers/entertainment-audio/new-releases.aspx?q=Games&at=#recentReleases

Apparently there are no actual DTS encoded PC games. What a waste that they give better sound tech to inferior platforms.

And I never said or even implied there's such a thing as stereo encoding, don't know where you got that from.


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## Dent1 (Aug 5, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> Not really what I'm asking. I'm more or less asking what's the point of some devs encoding games with DTS if a sound card that encodes it onto ANY stereo signal can play ANY game in DTS, because according to what you and others are saying, it still takes a DTS capable sound card even if your AVR decodes DTS, even with games that are already encoded with DTS.



No games have been encoded in DTS or Dolby.

Most games are recorded in stereo. Some games support 5.1 or 7.1 or more audio channels which is what DDL and DTS exploits.




Frag Maniac said:


> I guess that's why the DTS site only shows console box shots on their list of supported games.
> http://www.dts.com/consumers/entertainment-audio/new-releases.aspx?q=Games&at=#recentReleases
> 
> Apparently there are no actual DTS encoded PC games. What a waste that they give better sound tech to inferior platforms.
> ...



Console games are not encoded in DD or DTS either. The sound chip on the Xbox and PS3 have a built in encoding similar to the Xonar which they license from DTS, Inc. and Dolby Laboratories, Inc.




> Digital Live is a real-time audio encoding technology that delivers interactive 5.1-channel Dolby Digital audio from games played on PlayStation® 3, Xbox®, and Xbox 360™ consoles.




http://www.dolby.com/gb/en/professional/technology/gaming/dolby-digital-live.html





Frag Maniac said:


> Can you please answer the question about PCM multi channel now that you're here again? How many PC games can you really get multi channel PCM from, that is if multi channel HDMI Audio ever does work for those fortunate enough to behold such a miracle? LOL
> 
> Then the only reason I can think of that the consoles would encode DTS onto games that are multi channel capable is because you can't put sound cards in those systems.



Most games today support multiple audio channels. I've only played a hand full of games such as Tomb Raider Underworld, Crysis 2, Max Payne 3.


I'm confused, consoles do have soundcards, they are integrated audio chips.


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 5, 2013)

Can you please answer the question about PCM multi channel now that you're here again? How many PC games can you really get multi channel PCM from, that is if multi channel HDMI Audio ever does work for those fortunate enough to behold such a miracle? LOL

Then the only reason I can think of that the consoles would encode DTS onto games that are multi channel capable is because you can't put sound cards in those systems.


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## Mussels (Aug 5, 2013)

i dont know, because i dont use it. i use analogue 5.1 sound, and before that i used DDL encoded optical.

using that, most of my games support it. i think the problem here is that your receiver doesnt support the formats you need (it doesnt do bitstreaming, only stereo/pre-encoded streams)


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 5, 2013)

Sorry that I didn't clarify, but I was asking Dent about PCM, since he's the one that commented on it earlier as far as getting multi channel PCM in some games, but not others.


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## Dent1 (Aug 5, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> Sorry that I didn't clarify, but I was asking Dent about PCM, since he's the one that commented on it earlier as far as getting multi channel PCM in some games, but not others.



The bottom line is you need a soundcard with DDL and or DTS Connect. And if you ever get your HDMI out working on your video card use LPCM, Dolby Digital True HD or DTS HD Masters on your bluray discs. I think this is the best solution.


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 6, 2013)

Dent1 said:


> The bottom line is you need a soundcard with DDL and or DTS Connect. And if you ever get your HDMI out working on your video card use LPCM, Dolby Digital True HD or DTS HD Masters on your bluray discs. I think this is the best solution.



Again, no need to go over what I've already said to be working for me. I have an external HT BD player on which I have no problem getting True HD and HD Master for movies. I am only talking GAME audio here. Earlier you said some games you could play in multi PCM, others not, thus my question as to how many games you could play in multi PCM.

Then there's the fact that you switched to a sound card and S/PDIF to avoid poor PCM audio in YT and other such formats, so your advocating PCM appears to be half hearted. Suffice it to say I'd just like to get an idea of roughly what percentage of games can actually be played via multi PCM though. The rest I'll decide for myself, because most everyone here is taking what I say out of context, and it's getting quite frustrating.


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## Dent1 (Aug 6, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> Again, no need to go over what I've already said to be working for me. I have an external HT BD player on which I have no problem getting True HD and HD Master for movies. I am only talking GAME audio here. Earlier you said some games you could play in multi PCM, others not, thus my question as to how many games you could play in multi PCM.
> 
> Then there's the fact that you switched to a sound card and S/PDIF to avoid poor PCM audio in YT and other such formats, so your advocating PCM appears to be half hearted. Suffice it to say I'd just like to get an idea of roughly what percentage of games can actually be played via multi PCM though. The rest I'll decide for myself, because most everyone here is taking what I say out of context, and it's getting quite frustrating.




I've already answered this question. I've only played a hand full of games briefly in Multi channel PCM such as Tomb Raider Underworld, Crysis 2, and Max Payne 3. I can't comment on whether other games would have worked because I didn't value  Multi channel PCM enough it consistently use it thereafter. Even when I was using my video card's HDMI output I usually opted for normal PCM and DTS: Neo upmix on my receiver which was far more accurate positional sound. Although the surround sound was weak it was the better option for me.

I've come from owning high end sound cards like the Auzentech X-Meridian which I regret selling and the X-Fi Prelude, so DDL and DTS connect wasn't new to me before I bought my Xonar DS. When I was using my video cards HDMI outputs I knew immediately what I was missing, but didn't want to spend big money on a high end card again which is why I went with the Xonar DS.


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## H82LUZ73 (Aug 6, 2013)

Frag I hate to tell you this but your A/V receiver has no inputs that say GAME/PC  and that is one of your problems.

The second is this ..  are you even plugging the HDMI on your AMD card in the right card? Try to switch it around and see if the AMD HDMI is plugged in.Without the A/V showing as default device It should only show your A/V in the Display Properties menu not under sound options.

3rd is this are you even switching the hdmi channels to what your pc is connected to ? say its on hdmi 3 are you clicking it to that ? 

4, theirs no need of this going to TV crap to your A/V in the first place... just plug it to the A/V and switch the channels like above .

5, you will i repeat NEVER get Dolby games out from the PC to play in Dolby sound unless you buy a A/V Receiver that is Windows sound certified to decode it or run a decode to compress it .Hell mine don't even do it and mine is in my system specs.Only thing that runs is when i watch Blu -ray and in Cyberlink Power DVD 12 does it play sound out that is DTS-HD and Dolby True HD and that is because Power DVD has the codec to do that.I forgot to mention when i play a audio dvd encoded in Dolby 5.1 under power dvd it works too .


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## Dent1 (Aug 6, 2013)

H82LUZ73 said:


> Frag I hate to tell you this but your A/V receiver has no inputs that say GAME/PC  and that is one of your problems.
> 
> 2nd The second is this ..  are you even plugging the HDMI on your AMD card in the right card? Try to switch it around and see if the AMD HDMI is plugged in.Without the A/V showing as default device It should only show your A/V in the Display Properties menu not under sound options.
> 
> ...



I agree with point 1, 2, 3 and 4. But disagree some of with 5.

Not getting Dolby in games has nothing to do with his receiver. His receiver supports all the standards expected from a quality entry level receiver. Dolby: TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby Digital DTS: DTS-HD HR, DTS, ES, 96/24, Neo:6.

The reason isn't getting Dolby in games specifically is because he doesn't have an encoder soundcard which encodes Dolby on the fly (DDL). This advice applies to you judging by your spec too.


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 6, 2013)

@Dent,
Well, technically, no, the first time you really didn't give me an idea of how many games you played on PCM, or if any or how many wouldn't play via PCM multi channel. You def gave me a better idea in this response, but it still seems odd that on the one hand you touted it as the best option earlier, only to now imply it's lackluster. In fact now it even seems you're saying it's surround in games isn't so good, though it's hard to tell what you meant on that.

The last thing I need to know from you is will the Xonar DS encode ALL games to DTS? Can it take virtually ANY game's stereo signal and DTS encode it? Reason I ask is if the consoles have a DTS Connect type chip that encodes DTS, why is it only certain console games are actually claimed to support DTS?

@H82LUZ73,
1. Odd that you say that because my last call to Yamaha resulted in the tech laughing at me when I  suggested my problem might be at the AVR end when I asked why the FAQ for this model says to use an optical cable when connecting to a PC via HDMI. I'm also not understanding why you would say this as if it's the main problem, then go on to suggest a few other things as if it's not. Why would you even suggest those other things if you think my AVR is not capable of HDMI audio from a PC without a Game/PC HDMI input? If that were the case, the other points would be moot.

2. Am I "plugging the HDMI on (my) AMD card in the right card"? This comment doesn't even make sense. If you're asking if I'm plugging the HDMI CABLE into the proper place (EG video card HDMI port), do you REALLY need to ask such a thing? Do you take me for a friggin MORON? Of COURSE I'm plugging in to the HDMI port on the video card, in fact it's the ONLY HDMI port on the entire PC system, and if you'd been following what has been said, you'd know that.

3. LOL, and yes, I do make sure the AVR is switched to the proper HDMI port when attempting a pass thru from the AVR to the TV. In fact I recently mentioned having gotten the video pass thru to work. That is not even possible without the AVR being set to the right port.

4. Self explanatory, and again, you weren't paying attention to the prior posts already having mentioned that.

5. Dent is of course correct about this. It has nothing to do with the AVR and everything to do with a lack of DD encoding at the PC end, and as I already stated, I'd prefer DTS anyway, so I'm not sure why you even said Dolby.

You know what's odd guys, this is a tech oriented forum with some fairly knowledgeable members, but one thing it seems many erroneously assume is that anyone asking for help is a buffoon that doesn't know squat. One member here was recently caught labeling TPU in general as a "tard forum", but more often than not I find the comments from those trying to help not making sense. There's often too many assumptions, oversights, and misinterpretations being made for the responders to be carrying such a smug attitude. Sorry, that's just my take after many frustrations having to repeat myself, but thanks for the replies anyhow.


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## Dent1 (Aug 6, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> @Dent,
> Well, technically, no, the first time you really didn't give me an idea of how many games you played on PCM, or if any or how many wouldn't play via PCM multi channel. You def gave me a better idea in this response, but it still seems odd that on the one hand you touted it as the best option earlier, only to now imply it's lackluster. In fact now it even seems you're saying it's surround in games isn't so good, though it's hard to tell what you meant on that.
> 
> The last thing I need to know from you is will the Xonar DS encode ALL games to DTS? Can it take virtually ANY game's stereo signal and DTS encode it? Reason I ask is if the consoles have a DTS Connect type chip that encodes DTS, why is it only certain console games are actually claimed to support DTS?



Not sure how I gave that impression that it was my preference. Throughout I've been talking about how the speech doesn't always come from the center speaker and dodgy ambient noises. I even said you wouldn't benefit from PCM over Dolby Digital Live as the audio quality in MP3 and games is generally too poor to take advantage of PCM's maximum frequencies and bitrates.

Yes using DTS Connect on the Xonar will encode all stereo signals to DTS 5.1. You have to use the DTS Neo: PC™ and DTS Interactive together within the drivers.

I'd think the console games which don't claim to support DTS would claim to support Dolby Digital instead, conflict of interest to mention competing technologies on the same box (different for DVDs and motion studios are required to by it's governance). Maybe they have to ask permission to display DTS or Dolby Logo on the box or pay royalty. Maybe DTs or Dolby have a deal with Sony to use their encoder on specific titles. I really don't know I can only speculate.

I think what H82LUZ73 meant was, when connecting your video card to your receiver,  the  receivers may not be setup to switch inputs automatically upon connecting a new device. You may have to go into it's configuration (with the remote) and manually assign the physical buttons (BD DVD, TV, CD) to the associated HDMI port and make it active. There might be further options elsewhere in the menu which dictate the behaviour of the HDMI input.

@ H82LUZ73. You don't need a button saying GAME/PC. All the buttons on the receiver are exactly the same regardless of the name printed on it, it just to help you find the relevant HDMI port when you're at the back connecting it up. The names on the button are interchangeable and can be renamed something completely different within the configuration.


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 6, 2013)

Dent1 said:


> Not sure how I gave that impression that it was my preference. Throughout I've been talking about how the speech doesn't always come from the center speaker and dodgy ambient noises. I even said you wouldn't benefit from PCM over Dolby Digital Live as the audio quality in MP3 and games is generally too poor to take advantage of PCM's maximum frequencies and bitrates.



I thought you'd said somewhere that PCM is best option if you can get it, but maybe you said it for other source material like DVD. I've been trying to keep the topic on the subject of game audio only to no avail.

Anyways, it seems somewhere games were mentioned as always having no better than stereo PCM signal, which is often 5.1 capable given the proper encoding/decoding, but as well you're saying some games can actually play in multi channel PCM, but I don't see how that's possible if the signal is stereo and needs encoding/decoding, because that typically involves one of the licensed formats like DD or DTS.

Anyway, I guess it's moot if PCM multi yields poor center and surround even in games. At first I got the impression you were saying that was the case just in YouTube vids and such. I can also see why the lossless bandwidth is moot since all games have compressed audio to begin with. It seems some here in the past have over stated the value of multi channel PCM in games in both audio quality and positional audio.

I probably should have jumped on the DS when it was on MIR for only $33. I held off because I wasn't sure if I wanted a PCI card without knowing if I'd eventually go Crossfire. A used PCI slot can cause conflicts space wise with things like that. It may drop again, but now it's getting to the point where limited stock might actually drive the price higher. I don't know if they even make them anymore.


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## Dent1 (Aug 6, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> Anyways, it seems somewhere games were mentioned as always having no better than stereo PCM signal, which is often 5.1 capable given the proper encoding/decoding, but as well you're saying some games can actually play in multi channel PCM, but I don't see how that's possible if the signal is stereo and needs encoding/decoding, because that typically involves one of the licensed formats like DD or DTS.



The signal isn't always stereo. It could very well 5 or 7 audio channels. It just comes out as stereo because of the bandwidth limitations of SPDIF.  HDMI doesn't have the same bandwidth limitation and hence why multi channel PCM is a possibility.

Also before HDMI became mainstream people were enjoying multi channel PCM on analogue out which also boasts higher bandwidth than SPDIF.


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 6, 2013)

Well given the way most game audio is anymore and the hit and miss success many have with HDMI audio from the PC, I can see why sound cards are still a viable market niche.


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## HitmanSamus (May 14, 2014)

Hey There,

I hope this thread is not dead... looks to me it is but here goes... I have the same setup as you... Exept the video card... I have the GTX 680 and I also have the Yamaha RX-V367 AVR. It works very well with my GTX 680... I have a few quirks though... first of which, my TV seems to be detected in my video card control panel and not my AVR... although i do get surround sound in 5.1 i doubt my yamaha is using its codec to output my 5.1 as it seems to be using my tv's codecs... Also, when I have music / games playing and I hear the sound on all speakers but the minute I power down my TV, the sound cuts for a bit then seems to switch to my AVR in which I hear a notable difference in sound quality... its twice as better than my TV's audio codecs.... Did you manage to have your AVR detected with your GPU? I also though of maybe buying a DVI to HDMI adpater and plug my HDMI cable to my tv with that adapter then pluging my other HDMI cable to the HDMI out then to my AVR without having it connect with the TV whatsoever


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## eidairaman1 (May 14, 2014)

Any thread that hasnt been visited in 2 months is considered dead


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## Mussels (May 14, 2014)

short version is that greater than stereo from HDMI is generally a problem, for the simple reason that a lot of receivers only support pre-encoded data - not LPCM.

so itll work fine for DVD and blu ray movies, but everything else goes to crap without very specific hardware.


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