# AMD Working On Stripped-Down PlayStation 4 SoC for PCs



## btarunr (Feb 28, 2013)

Ahead of its unveiling last week, it was expected that Sony's PlayStation 4 console would be driven by little more than an AMD A-Series "Trinity" APU. It ended up being a lot more than that. The custom-design SoC that drives the next-generation console is a joint effort between AMD and Sony, which integrates an 8-core x86-64 CPU based on the company's new "Jaguar" micro-architecture; a GPU based on its Graphics CoreNext technology; a GDDR5 integrated memory controller, and certain enhancements by Sony. In an interview with _The Inquirer,_ the company hinted that it's interested in porting the SoC over to the PC platform, minus Sony's share of the development.






PlayStation 4, although based on the x86 CPU machine-architecture, doesn't conform to any known PC specification. It uses 8 GB of GDDR5 memory as both system and graphics memory, several of its interfaces are out of specs of anything that can be implemented on a PC motherboard. Therefore, its SoC can't simply be soldered onto a PC motherboard. AMD would have to first strip the SoC of Sony's share of the development (or risk having to license it). 

Next up, it would have to strip the chip of its most interesting component, the unified GDDR5 IMC. JEDEC does not have a GDDR5 DIMM specification, nor would motherboard makers be interested in hard-wiring expensive GDDR5 memory chips on to their motherboards and render the memory subsystem non-expandable. The PlayStation 4 SoC uses a 256-bit wide GDDR5 memory interface, with a stellar memory bandwidth of 176 GB/s. That's over six times the memory bandwidth of an Intel Core i7 "Ivy Bridge" machine running dual-channel DDR3-1600 MHz. A fallback to DDR3 could hence greatly cripple the SoC. It would be extremely interesting to see how AMD handles the checks-and-balances needed to bring the SoC over to the PC.

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## wiak (Feb 28, 2013)

they will just down scale the GDDR5 to 2GB and have ddr3 dimm slots?
thats the most logical one, its basicly a motherboard with a dedicated gpu built into it ;P


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## btarunr (Feb 28, 2013)

I would imagine changing the 256-bit GDDR5 interface into 128-bit GDDR5, with motherboard makers being asked to integrate four GDDR5 chips with price adjustments on the chipset side; and 128-bit common DDR3 interface for system memory. It's not like AMD hasn't toyed with the concept of two independent IMCs on a CPU before (K10).


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## Phusius (Feb 28, 2013)

So basically this means my 7950 oc'd to 1200 core will max every console port for the next 5+ years?


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## Ikaruga (Feb 28, 2013)

It's probably gonna be a dumbed down version, but still, the GCN 2.0 parts are probably free to come to the PC just like the extra computational capabilities added to the GPU. It's good news.


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## Eagleye (Feb 28, 2013)

Yeah maybe Steam could get their hands on this with a few of their own bits added in


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## Solidstate89 (Feb 28, 2013)

It'd be interesting if they did with something other than the Jaguar architecture.


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## SaltyFish (Feb 28, 2013)

With DDR4 around the corner (server class Haswell chips will support it), I wonder if that would cost less than using GDDR5.


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## RejZoR (Feb 28, 2013)

I can't see this thing to work. Console can run a rather crappy hardware because everything is designed specifically for it. So even with crappy hardware it runs great. With Windows or Linux, forget it. Same games that will run great on PS4 will run like crap on this PC version of it...


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## tokyoduong (Feb 28, 2013)

Maybe it's not meant to be a PC version of the console. I know if i was to release this, its purpose would be a green SoC system that can be able to do general computing for under $300.


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## blibba (Feb 28, 2013)

Phusius said:


> So basically this means my 7950 oc'd to 1200 core will max every console port for the next 5+ years?



Yes, by the same logic that a 7900GT can max any console port available today.


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## iO (Feb 28, 2013)

Sony could make some PlayStation branded killer laptop or AIO with that SoC...


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 28, 2013)

btarunr said:


> I would imagine changing the 256-bit GDDR5 interface into 128-bit GDDR5, with motherboard makers being asked to integrate four GDDR5 chips with price adjustments on the chipset side; and 128-bit common DDR3 interface for system memory. It's not like AMD hasn't toyed with the concept of two independent IMCs on a CPU before (K10).



Firstly this was already known and is the brazo replacement secondly their will be more specs released for this chip when the 720 breaks cover id imagine about the Ip sony put into this chip , we only know what amd wanted us to know and they could have easily put a ddr3 imc on the chip aswell if they wanted , Im waiting Amd ,it could be a 2.5D chip or cube .essentially anythings still possible.


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## 1freedude (Feb 28, 2013)

btarunr said:


> ...although based on the x86 CPU machine-architecture, doesn't conform to any known PC specification. It uses 8 GB of GDDR5 memory as both system and graphics memory, several of its interfaces are out of specs of anything that can be implemented on a PC motherboard. Therefore, its SoC can't simply be soldered onto a PC motherboard.



PC does not equal ATX specification.  I guess we'll have to see if it will run Windows.  That is the best determination of PC classification.  

For example, tablets (slates) that can make calls, even though they have cellular connectivity, are not phones.

The usage defines the title.

I see the beginning of the end for ATX.


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## Prima.Vera (Feb 28, 2013)

1freedude said:


> PC does not equal ATX specification.  I guess we'll have to see if it will run Windows.  That is the best determination of PC classification.



Probably just a safe mode like version, since there are no drivers for it...or are they?


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## TheLaughingMan (Mar 1, 2013)

"AMD included long ass list of licensed technologies for the CPU, memory, GPU, bus, etc. And Sony helped."

I love how they claim it was a joint effort with Sony, but has no idea WTF Sony contributed. I take it Sony was the one who picked up the phone and asked IBM to build the motherboard and PSU for AMD to finish the system.


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## LagunaX (Mar 1, 2013)

iO said:


> Sony could make some PlayStation branded killer laptop or AIO with that SoC...



This would be interesting...


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## a_ump (Mar 1, 2013)

iO said:


> Sony could make some PlayStation branded killer laptop or AIO with that SoC...





LagunaX said:


> This would be interesting...



this would also probably kill PS4 sales. What would be the point of buying a PS4 for those looking for a new console or pc to game on, if a laptop came with almost exactly the same hardware yet could do more than just game and browse(school work, media downloading, etc)


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## HalfAHertz (Mar 1, 2013)

a_ump said:


> this would also probably kill PS4 sales. What would be the point of buying a PS4 for those looking for a new console or pc to game on, if a laptop came with almost exactly the same hardware yet could do more than just game and browse(school work, media downloading, etc)



Because the laptop would be mobile and would cost 2 or 3 times more than the PS


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## Xzibit (Mar 1, 2013)

btarunr said:


> Ahead of its unveiling last week, it was expected that Sony's PlayStation 4 console would be driven by little more than an AMD A-Series "Trinity" *APU*. It ended up being a lot more than that. The custom-design *SoC* that drives the next-generation console is a joint effort between AMD and Sony, which integrates an 8-core x86-64 CPU based on the company's new "Jaguar" micro-architecture; a GPU based on its Graphics CoreNext technology; a GDDR5 integrated memory controller, and certain enhancements by Sony. In an interview with _The Inquirer,_ the company hinted that it's interested in porting the *SoC* over to the PC platform, minus Sony's share of the development.
> 
> [url]http://www.techpowerup.com/img/13-02-28/160a_thm.jpg[/URL]
> 
> ...



Am I the only that was confused by the Title and the above.  Nowhere in the Interview does it mention a SoC just APUs.

Your making it out like PS4 has a SoC when its using a AMD APU+Sony IP.  The interview itself that you source from The Inquirer says it clearly.


> "Everything that Sony has shared in that single chip is AMD [intellectual property], but we have not built an *APU* quite like that for anyone else in the market. It is by far the most powerful *APU* we have built to date, it leverages [intellectual property] that you will find in our A-series *APU*s later this year, our new generation of *APU*s but none that will quite be to that level of sheer number of cores, sheer number of teraflops."



The only reference to a SoC is from The TechReport source.


> The low-power desktop and notebook *SoC* has been on AMD roadmaps for a while and will combine up to four Jaguar cores with integrated graphics based on the GCN architecture that underpins the Radeon HD 7000 series.


Which was a reference to a APU not a SoC.



Editors


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## 1freedude (Mar 1, 2013)

APU=SoC


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Mar 1, 2013)

1freedude said:


> APU=SoC



Apu +nb +sb+other Ip=soc


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## Xzibit (Mar 1, 2013)

1freedude said:


> APU=SoC



In what world.

If a SoC was powering PS4.  ARM should be out of business.


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## xenocea (Mar 1, 2013)

blibba said:


> Yes, by the same logic that a 7900GT can max any console port available today.



Sorry but that is far from the truth, and misleading. You cannot compare the 7900GT to the PS3's architect. They completely different.

And no way can the 7900GT pump out remotely playable framerates on Battlefield 3, Crysis, Crysis 2, Crysis 3, Assassin's Creed...etc even if they the visuals are down scaled for the consoles version.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 1, 2013)

xenocea said:


> Sorry but that is far from the truth, and misleading. You cannot compare the 7900GT to the PS3's architect. They completely different.
> 
> And no way can the 7900GT pump out remotely playable framerates on Battlefield 3, Crysis, Crysis 2, Crysis 3, Assassin's Creed...etc even if they the visuals are down scaled for the consoles version.



On a PC it cannot because they are not optimized for it. However hes correct. The PS3 has about the same power as a 7900GT from what I remember. The 360 was around the X1900.


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## Shihab (Mar 1, 2013)

Xzibit said:


> In what world.
> 
> If a SoC was powering PS4.  ARM should be out of business.



AFAIK, SoC isn't related to low power consumption alone, nor performance. Like the guys said, stick a CPU, GPU, IMC, and any other chips/controllers/etc into one chip and it'll be a SoC -by definition- _regardless of how much power it draws or how much flops it can crunch_.

ARM will still pwn the business as it currently has the best power consumption. But that's for the Mobile segment. A PS4 is more of a PC.


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## blibba (Mar 1, 2013)

TheMailMan78 said:


> On a PC it cannot because they are not optimized for it. However hes correct. The PS3 has about the same power as a 7900GT from what I remember. The 360 was around the X1900.



Yup, exactly.

If anything, it's slower: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSX_%27Reality_Synthesizer%27



xenocea said:


> The PS3 works a little different, with the Cell able to assist and aids the RSX which helps it to achieve somethings that the 7900GT couldn't.



This logic applies to consoles in general. That's why a HD7950 is not a good candidate to play "every PS4 port ever".


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 1, 2013)

xenocea said:


> The PS3's RSX was actually based on the 7800GTX. But they cannot be compared direct just from GPU.
> 
> The PS3 works a little different, with the Cell able to assist and aids the RSX which helps it to achieve somethings that the 7900GT couldn't.



Yeah and after it was all said and done it was about as powerful as a 7900GT. The Cell doesn't magically make it a 670.


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## blibba (Mar 1, 2013)

xenocea said:


> I never said the cell was comparable to high end pc. Re read my post.
> 
> I was simply saying the Cell helps the RSX to achieve certain visuals that were not possible on the 7900gt alone. Gosh you guys are quick to judge.



The Cell's benefit to the 7600/7800 in the PS3 perhaps does allow it to achieve some things that a 7900GT could not, but not much.

Essentially it appears that we agree regarding the point at hand (7950 vs. PS4), so I don't really understand why your jimmies appear so rustled.

Also, nobody's judging anyone, except you with your ironically hypocritical assertion that we're quick to judge.


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## Xzibit (Mar 1, 2013)

Shihabyooo said:


> AFAIK, SoC isn't related to low power consumption alone, nor performance. Like the guys said, stick a CPU, GPU, IMC, and any other chips/controllers/etc into one chip and it'll be a SoC -by definition- _regardless of how much power it draws or how much flops it can crunch_.
> 
> ARM will still pwn the business as it currently has the best power consumption. But that's for the Mobile segment. A PS4 is more of a PC.



Its not and I should have put a /sarcasm there.

The 2 sources that were pointed out as I quoted only one had one sentence with SoC reference that was actually a mistake and refering to a APU.

I dont know how someone makes the leap from an interview of stricly APU referances and goes on about SoCs. Making 6 referances to it.  Thats what I was getting it.

It be the first SoC (APU+/+/+/+/+/+/+/+)
/sarcasm


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## blibba (Mar 1, 2013)

xenocea said:


> Care to evaluate what jimmies appear so rustled?



Evaluate them? Ok, I'd say they're worth about $2.50.



xenocea said:


> And your judging me and coming to a conclusion that I'm instigating an issue.




I don't think you're "instigating an issue"
I would not need to judge you to decide that you were "instigating an issue"
Judging you would not be helpful in coming to any such conclusion
I'm not judging you, I don't even know anything about you

Anyway, this is grossly unproductive, I'm unsubscribing from the thread.


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## Shihab (Mar 1, 2013)

Xzibit said:


> The 2 sources that were pointed out as I quoted only one had one sentence with SoC reference that was actually a mistake and refering to a APU.
> 
> I dont know how someone makes the leap from an interview of stricly APU referances and goes on about SoCs. Making 6 referances to it.  Thats what I was getting it.



Quoting techreport:


> Sony's upcoming PlayStation 4 console will feature an AMD APU that combines eight Jaguar CPU cores with integrated Radeon graphics and a shared GDR5 memory interface. The chip has also been infused with Sony technology, although it's unclear to what extent.



A normal CPU wouln't incorporate memory on die (other than its cache).
Knowing that Sony isn't an x86 CPU manufacturer, nor a GPU manufacturer. I highly doubt what's in that chip would be any of both. Hence, conforming to the SoC definition. The source may have not labeled it as such, but it is.
Now, from where I stand, neither btarunr nor the two sources are mistaken, the chip can be called either. As from what I know an APU is SoC. 

Sarcasm aside, I'm interested in knowing why you believe the APUs aren't socs...


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## brandonwh64 (Mar 1, 2013)

xenocea said:


> Please for feel free to. No one is forcing you to read.



You avatar is forcing me to read this thread...


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## Xzibit (Mar 1, 2013)

Shihabyooo said:


> Quoting techreport:
> 
> 
> A normal CPU wouln't incorporate memory on die (other than its cache).
> ...



APUs dont control all I/Os


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 1, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> You avatar is forcing me to read this thread...



Not sure if legal to fap or not. Age must be confirmed before target is acquired....over.


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## Frick (Mar 1, 2013)

Shihabyooo said:


> Sarcasm aside, I'm interested in knowing why you believe the APUs aren't socs...



I agree with him. A SoC usually have a NIC and various IO (*system* on chip. An APU have a cpu and a gpu. It shouldnt be called a SoC imo.


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## Shihab (Mar 1, 2013)

Frick said:


> I agree with him. A SoC usually have a NIC and various IO (*system* on chip. An APU have a cpu and a gpu. It shouldnt be called a SoC imo.



Fair enough...

Then all's left is whether the actual chip used on the PS4 is a SoC or not. 




brandonwh64 said:


> You avatar is forcing me to read this thread...





TheMailMan78 said:


> Not sure if legal to fap or not. Age must be confirmed before target is acquired....over.



So much for a welcome-to-tpu-party


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## brandonwh64 (Mar 1, 2013)

Shihabyooo said:


> So much for a welcome-to-tpu-party



Just wait until the after party!


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## Xzibit (Mar 1, 2013)

More PS4 Specs


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## xenocide (Mar 1, 2013)

Xzibit said:


> More PS4 Specs



No specifics, but I'm going to predict that GPU as a 7750/70-level GPU.  It would work pretty well.  I just don't see them splurging for a 7800 series GPU and definitely not Tahiti.


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## Xzibit (Mar 1, 2013)

Cape Verde XT (1.26 TFlops) would have to run at higher mhz to achive the 1.84 TFlops

Pitcairn is more likely 1.7-2.5 TFlops


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Mar 1, 2013)

Xzibit said:


> More PS4 Specs


No fresh specs there, just what was already known,  and wtf an soc this isnt, as I said many hours ago apu+nb+sb would be soc this is just another apu atm anyway .
As ive said sony had input we don't yet know What though.
Post 720 announcement these specs will expand imho


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## Prima.Vera (Mar 1, 2013)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Not sure if legal to fap or not. Age must be confirmed before target is acquired....over.



fkin' LOL


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## cdawall (Mar 1, 2013)

xenocea said:


> Sorry I still don't get what you mean by the $2.50 comment
> And It was not my intention for any hostility.



AMD's stock eval is right around $2.50 right now. That's probably what his comment was aimed towards.

Great time to buy IMO with the PS4 confirmed AMD and the Xbox leaning...

Would be great if both used an APU to run games. I would hope it meant console ports would be simpler and better.


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## EpicShweetness (Mar 1, 2013)

xenocea said:


> I never said the cell was comparable to high end pc. Re read my post.
> 
> I was simply saying the Cell helps the RSX to achieve certain visuals that were not possible on the 7900gt alone. Gosh you guys are quick to judge.



I understand what your trying to say there. IF RSX is basically a 7900GT who's architecture could not take advantage of such api's as DX10/11/11.1 then why do some games on the PS3 have some of the features those api's (DX10/11/11.1) demonstrate? Well Cell is helping make sense of it to RSK.
Please correct me if I missed something.


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## Ravenas (Mar 2, 2013)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Yeah and after it was all said and done it was about as powerful as a 7900GT. The Cell doesn't magically make it a 670.



Lol.


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## cdawall (Mar 2, 2013)

EpicShweetness said:


> I understand what your trying to say there. IF RSX is basically a 7900GT who's architecture could not take advantage of such api's as DX10/11/11.1 then why do some games on the PS3 have some of the features those api's (DX10/11/11.1) demonstrate? Well Cell is helping make sense of it to RSK.
> Please correct me if I missed something.



The RSX chip is a G71 based card with as many ROP's as a 7600 and 256mb GDDR3 period end of story.


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## Ravenas (Mar 2, 2013)

How would this processor be a win for consumers? A win for consumers would be something along the the lines of a 22nm processor that preforms better than an i5 at a lower price. The Hondo chips show a lot of potential for the evovling tablet/mobile world. Although, the Hondo chips may prove to be late to the party..


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## NeoXF (Mar 2, 2013)

Just look at WATCH_DOGS... one of the few games coming out in the future that actually look "next-gen", they said it's main development platform is PC, it will also be coming out on PS4 (and PS3, which is weird but should make things interesting...).

It's very probable the a lot of the games coming out in the next years will have PC as lead platform and given the platform similarities, be scaled down or sideways or chopped into size for PS4/XBox3. Or keeping the same idea, "timed-exclusives" or console-exclusives be more inclined to also come to PC later on.


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## mastrdrver (Mar 3, 2013)

Everyone does realized that a "stripped down version" of the PS4 chip is the upcoming Kabini (which is going to replace Bobcat) correct? It was even demoed at CES in the Temash tablet running Dirt Showdown.

[yt]CV-U50Viv_k[/yt]


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## NeoXF (Mar 3, 2013)

mastrdrver said:


> Everyone does realized that a "stripped down version" of the PS4 chip is the upcoming Kabini (which is going to replace Bobcat) correct? It was even demoed at CES in the Temash tablet running Dirt Showdown.
> 
> ...



Kabini and Temash might be very similar, but they're not the same thing. High-end Temash is going to be a 1GHz-mobile 1,4GHz-stationary quad-core Jaguar with 128 GCN cores at 300MHz-mobile 500MHz-stationary at something between 3,5W and 9W. Kabini should obviously end up quite a bit beefier than that, especially the 25W part.


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## mastrdrver (Mar 3, 2013)

I never said they were the same and neither did AMD. Though, you'll never be able to get a Jaguar APU with 8 cores and the GPU power of a 7850. AMD said that a "stripped down version" is coming. Of course there is, and for anyone that has seen AMD public road maps, this no surprise.

Kabini and Temash uses the same "Jaguar cores" (per an AMD slide) that the PS4 chip uses.

High end Kabini will be a little under 2Ghz. The PS4 chip is going to have a similar clock since it is based on the same architecture.

According to some leaks, Temash has similar performance to that of the current Intel i3 2367M.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Mar 3, 2013)

mastrdrver said:


> I never said they were the same and neither did AMD. Though, you'll never be able to get a Jaguar APU with 8 cores and the GPU power of a 7850. AMD said that a "stripped down version" is coming. Of course there is, and for anyone that has seen AMD public road maps, this no surprise.
> 
> Kabini and Temash uses the same "Jaguar cores" (per an AMD slide) that the PS4 chip uses.
> 
> ...



Im expecting amd powerstates and boost on it myself prob 1.6ghz stck boosting to 2.6per core and within tdp


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## Steven B (Mar 3, 2013)

motherboard makers can hard embed GDDR5, i mean just like on a GPU's PCB. This SOC is basically a GPU with a built in CPU. I think people forget those guys who design GPUs also design CPU's and their boards. besides i doubt any real effort will be made to make that AMD thing into a mainstream product, why would there? We really need more AMD CPUs?


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## mastrdrver (Mar 4, 2013)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Im expecting amd powerstates and boost on it myself prob 1.6ghz stck boosting to 2.6per core and within tdp



2.6Ghz is not going to happen. The architecture is not built for speed but power.


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## cdawall (Mar 4, 2013)

mastrdrver said:


> 2.6Ghz is not going to happen. The architecture is not built for speed but power.



It might exceed the TDP, but I do not see it having any issues exceeding 2.6ghz. It still uses off the shelf silcone.


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## mastrdrver (Mar 4, 2013)

cdawall said:


> It might exceed the TDP, but I do not see it having any issues exceeding 2.6ghz. It still uses off the shelf silcone.



It's not a problem of TDP, it's not a problem of power, it's a problem of the architecture.

The architecture is not made for high clocks, unlike Bulldozer. It does not have enough gates to be able to clock that high.

AMD has already stated that the clocks for Jaguar will be 10% over Bobcat's normal/boost clocks and that is for the 25w Kabini part.


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## theeldest (Mar 5, 2013)

xenocea said:
			
		

> <snip>



Dang kids coming into my forums and causing a ruckus. You keep your music turned down, ya hear‽


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## cdawall (Mar 5, 2013)

mastrdrver said:


> It's not a problem of TDP, it's not a problem of power, it's a problem of the architecture.
> 
> The architecture is not made for high clocks, unlike Bulldozer. It does not have enough gates to be able to clock that high.
> 
> AMD has already stated that the clocks for Jaguar will be 10% over Bobcat's normal/boost clocks and that is for the 25w Kabini part.



The standard ARM chip is knocking on 2ghz door with quads capable of 1.6ghz. I would bet money certain Jaguar chips will be capable of hitting 2.6ghz at the top end.


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## mastrdrver (Mar 5, 2013)

Bobcat is not a speed monster like Bulldozer and P4 were designed to be. Thus it does not have the long gates required for high clock speeds.

As to what ARM has to do with an x86 processor, idk. Might as well compare the 1Ghz clock speed on a GK110 and say that nVidia doesn't know how to use power efficiently.


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## cdawall (Mar 6, 2013)

mastrdrver said:


> Bobcat is not a speed monster like Bulldozer and P4 were designed to be. Thus it does not have the long gates required for high clock speeds.
> 
> As to what ARM has to do with an x86 processor, idk. Might as well compare the 1Ghz clock speed on a GK110 and say that nVidia doesn't know how to use power efficiently.



What are you referring to with gates? CPU's have ALU's and a processing pipeline. Bulldozer is a short/mid length pipeline like all other AMD/Intel CPU's outside of P4. Pipeline length doesn't have anything to do with clockspeed. IPC and many other design cues drop into the speed side of things.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Mar 6, 2013)

mastrdrver said:


> Bobcat is not a speed monster like Bulldozer and P4 were designed to be. Thus it does not have the long gates required for high clock speeds.
> 
> As to what ARM has to do with an x86 processor, idk. Might as well compare the 1Ghz clock speed on a GK110 and say that nVidia doesn't know how to use power efficiently.



Arms relevance increases daily and 2.6 on a low power cpu using hurry to sleep and intelligent power gateing is a thing of the present, tried and improved on yearly one to four cores will boost to 2.6 imho but it Is just an opinion
Oh and winrt uses arm whereas Amd s Fx line emulates x86 no special hardware odd eh


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## mastrdrver (Mar 6, 2013)

cdawall said:


> What are you referring to with gates? CPU's have ALU's and a processing pipeline. Bulldozer is a short/mid length pipeline like all other AMD/Intel CPU's outside of P4. Pipeline length doesn't have anything to do with clockspeed. IPC and many other design cues drop into the speed side of things.



 Oh yea, I meant pipeline length. I was thinking about gate delays.

Anyway, I've always been under the understanding that clock speed was related to pipeline length since clock speed is nothing more then the calculations per second (or some calculation like that) that the processor can do. To go higher (thus higher clock speeds) you need a long pipeline length which was why P4 for so long. Problem is, long pipelines also need more power and suffer more from cache misses.

In any case, AMD has already stated that the max turbo clock for Kabini in a PC will be just under 2Ghz (10%+ on top of what Bobcat already has). Adding more cores just ups the power usage so I can't see how they would reach 2.6Ghz.

Also I've read that consoles are limited to a max power usage of something less then 50w. How true this is, I don't know.



theoneandonlymrk said:


> Arms relevance increases daily and 2.6 on a low power cpu using hurry to sleep and intelligent power gateing is a thing of the present, tried and improved on yearly one to four cores will boost to 2.6 imho but it Is just an opinion
> Oh and winrt uses arm whereas Amd s Fx line emulates x86 no special hardware odd eh



What does the clock speed of an ARM processor have to do with the clock speed of the AMD chip inside the PS4?


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## cdawall (Mar 6, 2013)

mastrdrver said:


> Oh yea, I meant pipeline length. I was thinking about gate delays.
> 
> Anyway, I've always been under the understanding that clock speed was related to pipeline length since clock speed is nothing more then the calculations per second (or some calculation like that) that the processor can do. To go higher (thus higher clock speeds) you need a long pipeline length which was why P4 for so long. Problem is, long pipelines also need more power and suffer more from cache misses.
> 
> ...



The architecture itself has more to do with clockspeed than pipeline speed. Take Phenom I and Phenom II for example same basic CPU on a more mature design huge clockspeed difference. Athlon K8's represent the same thing 1ghz all the way up to 3.2ghz is a huge difference.

Kabini is a bulldozer designed CPU and a rather mature one at that it has the ability to scale to 4ghz if the TDP and bulk yields allow it.


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## cadaveca (Mar 6, 2013)

cdawall said:


> one at that it has the ability to scale to *5ghz* if the TDP and bulk yields allow it.



Fix'd.


Really. BD core design made for 5 GHz. Like the song goes...You ain't seen nothing yet...b-b-b-b-b-aby...



or so I am hoping.


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## NeoXF (Mar 6, 2013)

Stripped-down PS4 SoC... sounds to me like the embedded Kaveri w/ GDDR5...




cadaveca said:


> Really. BD core design made for 5 GHz. Like the song goes...You ain't seen nothing yet...b-b-b-b-b-aby...
> 
> 
> 
> or so I am hoping.




I wouldn't be surprised if 28nm Steamroller clocks at 5GHz out of the factory, considering Piledriver refresh (that's still 32nm) will prolly hit 4,5GHz or more... Still, I'd rather they clock it lower and fit in a lower TDP envelope and/or make them in 5M/10C or 6M/12C versions as well.


Also, why hasn't anyone posted about the desktop Richland moving forward to the 12th of this month? Or the specifications of the normal power mobile parts, or the fact that mobile flagship will suport DDR3-1866.

Sorry, I just happen to be very up-to-date with AMD APUs at the moment. 
And it's kinda frustrating seeing all these crappy news articles about humdrum TITAN brand launches or misc hardware that almost no one is interested it, but nothing on Richland, which is so close to launch.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Mar 6, 2013)

mastrdrver said:


> Oh yea, I meant pipeline length. I was thinking about gate delays.
> 
> Anyway, I've always been under the understanding that clock speed was related to pipeline length since clock speed is nothing more then the calculations per second (or some calculation like that) that the processor can do. To go higher (thus higher clock speeds) you need a long pipeline length which was why P4 for so long. Problem is, long pipelines also need more power and suffer more from cache misses.
> 
> ...



You indicated arm was irelivant I was pointing out x86 is largely unimportant now and all these processors are made in the same way's so clock speeds dont vary that much on diff npdes and processes , the rich land apu  at 2ghz is a lower bin obv but thats not to say they couldn't have been made quicker, Amd have a lot of sku's lingering in the lower price sector and have to be carefull not to diminish old stock saleability .
Ps4 will be top bin richland all 8 cores and features working and 2.6ghz it Will be. 
The more I think about it though I too wouldn't be surprised by higher clocks. Efin phone


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## TheLaughingMan (Mar 6, 2013)

Why would you bee surprised by clocks higher than 2.6 GHz. Both current generation offerings from Microsoft and Sony are clocked at 3.2 GHz. While more cores will be a great boon since they can better utilize them, raw clock speed can be very helpful in single threaded applications such as Blu-ray playback, web browsing, system UI, their audio cloud player thingy, etc.

I personall don't see the cores being less than 3.6 GHz with Turbo up to 4.0 GHz easy.


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## mastrdrver (Mar 7, 2013)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> You indicated arm was irelivant I was pointing out x86 is largely unimportant now and all these processors are made in the same way's so clock speeds dont vary that much on diff npdes and processes , the rich land apu  at 2ghz is a lower bin obv but thats not to say they couldn't have been made quicker, Amd have a lot of sku's lingering in the lower price sector and have to be carefull not to diminish old stock saleability .
> Ps4 will be top bin richland all 8 cores and features working and 2.6ghz it Will be.
> The more I think about it though I too wouldn't be surprised by higher clocks. Efin phone



PS4 is not Richland. Richland does not have Jaguar cores. Jaguar is an updated Bobcat core, not Bulldozer.



TheLaughingMan said:


> Why would you bee surprised by clocks higher than 2.6 GHz. Both current generation offerings from Microsoft and Sony are clocked at 3.2 GHz. While more cores will be a great boon since they can better utilize them, raw clock speed can be very helpful in single threaded applications such as Blu-ray playback, web browsing, system UI, their audio cloud player thingy, etc.
> 
> I personall don't see the cores being less than 3.6 GHz with Turbo up to 4.0 GHz easy.



AMD has already stated what max clocks will be for a 4 core Jaguar with a 25w TDP. If high clocks with low TDP was possible, they would have already done it. PS3 is a Cell design which is totally different from the PS4 AMD design. When you drop a process node, with the same overall design, you either gain higher clocks with the same TDP or lower TDP with the same clocks. I don't know how much of a drop it is going from 40nm to 28nm, but if AMD is saying a 10% clock boost with a slight increase in TDP, I don't see how anyone can come to the conclusion that 3Ghz+ is easy. If it was, then they would have done it. It's not like the TDP of the APU is going to be like that of a desktop either since there are power limits to what a console system can pull from the wall.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Mar 7, 2013)

mastrdrver said:


> PS4 is notin and Richland. Richland does not have Jaguar cores. Jaguar is an updated Bobcat core, not Bulldozer.
> 
> 
> 
> AMD has already stated what max clocks will be for a 4 core Jaguar with a 25w TDP. If high clocks with low TDP was possible, they would have already done it. PS3 is a Cell design which is totally different from the PS4 AMD design. When you drop a process node, with the same overall design, you either gain higher clocks with the same TDP or lower TDP with the same clocks. I don't know how much of a drop it is going from 40nm to 28nm, but if AMD is saying a 10% clock boost with a slight increase in TDP, I don't see how anyone can come to the conclusion that 3Ghz+ is easy. If it was, then they would have done it. It's not like the TDP of the APU is going to be like that of a desktop either since there are power limits to what a console system can pull from the wall.



Sos kabini I miswaffled. Put kabini In and my statement stands top  bin kabini is ps4  and one t two cores could easy do 3ghz in tdp with scaled p states


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## NeoXF (Mar 7, 2013)

(ignoring core count and IPC gains) E2-2000 1,75GHz @ 18W TDP -> +10% clock = 1,925Ghz @ 18W+ -> 25W ~= 2GHz+ final clocks, for the X4 5110 (25W TDP) flagship. Refreshes will probably go something like 10% beyond that as well (like E-450 to E2-1800 to E2-2000).


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