# Having a pulse is now optional



## twilyth (Jun 17, 2011)

Researchers Create the First Pulseless Artificial Heart 

It's not something that is FDA approved but the components are so, if it really does work as well as it seems to, this could be common practice in short order.

Note, the picture in the article isn't accurate.  The ventricular assist devices were much smaller than the one shown.



> What’s the News: Checking a person’s pulse is often the first thing you do to see if they’re still alive. But a new artificial heart, developed this past spring, will complicate this common diagnosis: Researchers at the Texas Heart Institute have now created a fully functioning artificial heart that uses rotors to circulate blood instead of contractions, like a natural heart.
> 
> How the Heck:
> 
> ...



Here is the original NPR article with an actual x-ray showing the size of the devices.  A good chunk of the story is about the guy they first tried this on.  

When you think about it, this really should be one of those D'OH moments for the medical community.  I mean, really, you had this tech for year's, even Dick Chenney has one, and it took this long to figure 'hey, if we slap 2 of these together, we can by pass the heart altogether - screw coronary artery bypass grafts - that's so 20th century.'


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## The_Ish (Jun 25, 2011)

I want a carbon fiber skeletal system, hydraulic fast twitch muscles, a fusion reactor fueling my mechanical and synthetic organs. Yes, I'm serious.


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## cheesy999 (Jun 25, 2011)

The_Ish said:


> I want a carbon fiber skeletal system, hydraulic fast twitch muscles, a fusion reactor fueling my mechanical and synthetic organs. Yes, I'm serious.



a 2500k in your head so you can think of those things faster


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## FordGT90Concept (Jun 25, 2011)

Makes sense.  Machines like to spin more than flex like muscle fibers do.  I could see people with that implant posing problems in an emergency situation.  The first thing rescuers do in a mass-injury situation is check the pulse.  No pulse means focus on someone else that is more likely to be saved.

This also brings up that age old question of "what does it take to consider someone dead?"  This complicates things unless, by law, they are required to have some kind of identification which quickly shows they are pulseless (maybe like a tattoo on the chest or wrist?).


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## RejZoR (Jun 29, 2011)

Well "artificial heart" machines at hospitals during heart surgeries (and transplantations) where they bypass the heart using a machine which uses a circular motion using a pressuire on a tube to create a blood flow. Using a contraction chambers like with real heart is not exactly easy to make and is probably also not durable enough.


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## fourty03 (Jul 8, 2011)

I wonder if the device can compensate for difference in blood pressure - or someone taking a jog.. or some other type of activity that will raise you're heartbeat..


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## Mussels (Jul 8, 2011)

fourty03 said:


> I wonder if the device can compensate for difference in blood pressure - or someone taking a jog.. or some other type of activity that will raise you're heartbeat..



I was wondering that too


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## ShiBDiB (Jul 8, 2011)

I'll just keep my current heart and if it stops working well.. its been fun trolling here.

Neat read tho


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## FreedomEclipse (Jul 8, 2011)




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## twicksisted (Jul 8, 2011)

personally i prefer my shags with pulses.... but then again im not too fussy really!


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## lilhasselhoffer (Jul 8, 2011)

fourty03 said:


> I wonder if the device can compensate for difference in blood pressure - or someone taking a jog.. or some other type of activity that will raise you're heartbeat..



Blood pressure is a function of delivering additional oxygen to tissues that are depleting their supply.  It would seem as though they could set the initial volumetric flow of blood higher than that of a resting human heart rate.  Additional oxygen would not be accepted by the muscle cells, but would be available instantly should the oxygen concentration ever decline (ie. musculature is being used).

In the normal human body increased blood pressure is dangerous to the vascular system because the heart has to generate it.  Remove the heart, and you've got no reason to run the system at a slower speed.


Of course, this is a conjecture at best.  They could also include an dissolved gas sensor to determine blood oxygen levels, and vary the artificial hearts speed based on gas concentration.  Both solution are possible, if a bit beyond anything in the realm of fiscally responsible...



The_Ish said:


> I want a carbon fiber skeletal system, hydraulic fast twitch muscles, a fusion reactor fueling my mechanical and synthetic organs. Yes, I'm serious.



Carbon fiber is crazy brittle.  Bones are designed to flex, which carbon fiber will not allow (cancellous versus cortical bone).  Sign me up for titanium coated in coral.  Nearly the same weight, but a hugely stronger skeleton with bio-compatibility.

Pneumatics are way faster than hydraullics.  The reason we have hydraullics is because they can exert way more force, given the same space and budgetary considerations.  Sign me up for halfnium and peroxide based musculature.  All of the benefits, and a steam punk alure.

I can't touch the fusion reactors.  If possible, that sounds genuinely cool enough to be worth looking into.  Not to mention I could put "a frickin' laser beam" on my head....


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## de.das.dude (Jul 8, 2011)

there should be a power LED which shows we are alive.


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## Mussels (Jul 8, 2011)

now all they need is another way to get oxygen into the blood, and we wont need lungs either.


no breathing? no pulse? no heartbeat? 'faking your own death' became a lot easier


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## bostonbuddy (Jul 9, 2011)

Mussels said:


> now all they need is another way to get oxygen into the blood, and we wont need lungs either.
> 
> 
> no breathing? no pulse? no heartbeat? 'faking your own death' became a lot easier



If they have prostetic memory how long till entire prostetic brains.  Is an entity thats just a prostetic brain alive?


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## Mussels (Jul 9, 2011)

bostonbuddy said:


> If they have prostetic memory how long till entire prostetic brains.  Is an entity thats just a prostetic brain alive?



Hmmm.


no brain, heart or lungs would result in some interesting dilemmas.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jul 9, 2011)

I eagerly await the 'ghost in the shell' era to come


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## twilyth (Jul 9, 2011)

You won't be able to have fully cybernetic "humans" since our thoughts and impulses are at least partly based on quantum mechanical phenomena like superposition and the uncertainty principle.  This is really my opinion, but I think there is some science to backup the claim that organic systems use QM effects for certain specific purposes.  For example, superposition seems to be critical to the ability of birds to follow magnetic field lines during migration.

And since you could never simulate those QM effects in the same way "in silico" (i.e., in a computer), there will always have to be an organic component - much like GITHS.


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## Drone (Jul 12, 2011)

As long as having brains isn't optional it's fine.


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## Mindweaver (Jul 13, 2011)

This is interesting.. but the flow would need to change depending on what the person is doing... Wouldn't you think? Take for example when you run your heart beats faster, and when you sleep it beats slower. Also, they can artificially recreate the pulse in places on your body where physicians check to ensure the patient is still alive. We have self winding watches. They could add an extra valve on to the artificial heart that self powers the artificial pulse from the artificial flow of the blood. Heart stops flowing the pulse stops.


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## Wrigleyvillain (Jul 13, 2011)

This is news? The average GOP member of congress has no pulse...

Ba-dum-bum!


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## lilhasselhoffer (Jul 13, 2011)

Mindweaver said:


> This is interesting.. but the flow would need to change depending on what the person is doing... Wouldn't you think? Take for example when you run your heart beats faster, and when you sleep it beats slower. Also, they can artificially recreate the pulse in places on your body where physicians check to ensure the patient is still alive. We have self winding watches. They could add an extra valve on to the artificial heart that self powers the artificial pulse from the artificial flow of the blood. Heart stops flowing the pulse stops.



One question, Why?

You are thinking how things currently work.  You are looking at a biological system, that by nature cannot replace that particular component.  The body therefore regulates the musculature to run slower in order to increase the lifespan of the tissue.  You're replacing that with a mechanical system that can run at higher capacities because it can be replaced.

Consider that the replacement can be monitored for status constantly, and has a very calcuable lifespan.  You could design the thing to run at a specific efficiency constantly, and engineer it to last a couple of decades (assuming replacement every 15 years so the average lifespan of the prosthetic is much longer than necessary to decrease instances of in the field failure, aka death).  The extra flow would serve no purpose when stationary (oxygen concentration differences drive oxygen absorbtion), but delivery plenty of extra blood whenever necessary.

There is no reason that the thing should require variable flow, but it would be a simple enough proposition.  Consider that the houses next to a water tower don't shoot water from the tap, and those miles away still get decent water pressure.  It may not be a direct analog, but it is a very reasonable fascimile of the situation's basic principles.  Fluid flow can be controlled by simple variations of pipe dimensions, and we already have variable size aperatures...


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## Mindweaver (Jul 13, 2011)

lilhasselhoffer said:


> One question, Why?
> 
> You are thinking how things currently work.  You are looking at a biological system, that by nature cannot replace that particular component.  The body therefore regulates the musculature to run slower in order to increase the lifespan of the tissue.  You're replacing that with a mechanical system that can run at higher capacities because it can be replaced.
> 
> ...



Excellent argument! I can understand what you are saying.. But this is sad news.. Take for example when you are scared your heart races.. when you're excited your heart races.. when you lay still and your heart comes to rest you feel tired and fall asleep. So, by what you are saying a heart that flows at a consistant rate should make you a very dull person. So, we are turning ourselves into robots?...


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## 3volvedcombat (Jul 13, 2011)

This could mean longer life spans with a constant flow of blood supplying constant nutrients to everything in the body. Then again, this also dresses the concern of other dangers, like, what if the battery dies and you need another Duracell Lol. I can understand that having power like that in your chest could be dangerous, because it can be affected by different forces. Like a EMT blast burning electrical devices out ect. Just my imagination, but theres Pro's and Neg's to it all. 

There will eventually make some sort of designated system that would operate the RPM of the motor's, and adjust them by the Users activity and other vitals ect, ect. 

But imagine if there where malfunctions with this, You would suddenly be sitting down, and have an instant sweat come out of no where, then a instant rush of energy and power till your head blows up or something because the motors decided to spin at far greater speed out of no where. That doesn't sound to good. 

Let them perfect it and improve it, like everybody else does eventually in history.


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## Mindweaver (Jul 13, 2011)

Add accelerometer motion sensors through out the body to judge arm, leg, chest and hip movement to adjust blood flow. We could be an "iHuman"!!


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## Sasqui (Jul 13, 2011)

lilhasselhoffer said:


> There is no reason that the thing should require variable flow, but it would be a simple enough proposition. Consider that the houses next to a water tower don't shoot water from the tap, and those miles away still get decent water pressure. It may not be a direct analog, but it is a very reasonable fascimile of the situation's basic principles. Fluid flow can be controlled by simple variations of pipe dimensions, and we already have variable size aperatures...



So what happens to all of the valves we possess in the arteries and viens throughout our body, which prevent blood from flowing backwards...? They work/are formed from the constant rythm of the heart beating.  Now you put an impeller pump in and the valves wouln't have a chance to close (or very seldom).  Depending on whatever stress is placed on the body (like standing on your head), all those little valves that have weakened from non-use might cause problems...  just a thought.

And for something completely different:

Instead of this:






Use this!


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## Mindweaver (Jul 13, 2011)

We could use one of these to power it!


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## lilhasselhoffer (Jul 13, 2011)

Sasqui said:


> So what happens to all of the valves we possess in the arteries and viens throughout our body, which prevent blood from flowing backwards...? They work/are formed from the constant rythm of the heart beating.  Now you put an impeller pump in and the valves wouln't have a chance to close (or very seldom).  Depending on whatever stress is placed on the body (like standing on your head), all those little valves that have weakened from non-use might cause problems...  just a thought.



Again, it would not be necessary.  Yes, these valves exist for a good reason in our current bodies.  They exist to prevent a reverse in pressure, which would blow up your heart.  You no longer have a heart beat, but a constant linear (ie. non-rhythmic) flow of fluids.  No contraction and expansion rhythm means no need for one-way valves.



Mindweaver said:


> Excellent argument! I can understand what you are saying.. But this is sad news.. Take for example when you are scared your heart races.. when you're excited your heart races.. when you lay still and your heart comes to rest you feel tired and fall asleep. So, by what you are saying a heart that flows at a consistant rate should make you a very dull person. So, we are turning ourselves into robots?...



Yes, I cannot argue.  Circadian rhythm, biological function, and strong emotional response do not lend themselves well to mechanical systems.  These biological functions will suffer, but I think the lack of death will be enough of a psycological benefit to prevent too much negative reaction to the changes that need to be made.

We give up too much of what traditionally "makes us human" as it is.  Eight hours of sleep 100 years ago was a rarity, because most people got substantially more.  Artificial lighting allows humans to work well into the dead of night, beyond the point where we would normally not be able to function due to a lack of proper lighting.  Any surgeries and modern medicine extend lives beyond what we could biologically deal with.  All of this is true, but is often overlooked because it is common in modern contexts.  How we adapt to something new defines humanity better than any other currently known species.  Live and change, or die; this is the impetus of evolution for a very good reason.


Philosophy aside, consider this a thought exercise at best.  People generally do not accept something so alien as a component of their bodies.  Limited vision is a problem, but it also prevents people from grafting a gun into their arms for giggles.  Though that does seem pretty awesome as I say it....


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## Sasqui (Jul 13, 2011)

lilhasselhoffer said:


> Again, it would not be necessary. Yes, these valves exist for a good reason in our current bodies. They exist to prevent a reverse in pressure, which would blow up your heart. You no longer have a heart beat, but a constant linear (ie. non-rhythmic) flow of fluids. No contraction and expansion rhythm means no need for one-way valves.



Blow up your heart?  LOL.  I don't agree, only beacuse the pressure in our viens and arteries is variable, based on a number of factors, the easiest to understand being contraction of muscles body position and posture.  Blood, like any fluid, flows naturally in the direction of gravity (example, fighter pilots losing conciousness at 4 g's).  Contract a muscle and the blood is squeezed out of it, and valves control that to some extent.

That said, perhaps just keeping moving would indeed cause the 1000's of valves scattered through our bodies to keep working to some degree.  Need a grant from the gov't to study this.


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