# Windows 8, full or upgrade required?



## cleverest (Nov 28, 2012)

I'm about to build a new system, and I need it to be windows 8 Pro (I have to gain mastery of it for my line of work...) and I'm wondering if the full OEM version is necessary for my new build or if it's possible to install the upgrade version somehow via a clean install without having issues down the road.

While I'm not suggesting pirating a copy of windows, I would like to save some money and buy a cheaper legit version of the OS if possible...that being said I don't have an old windows 7 to "upgrade"  (well I do, I have a windows 7 enterprise, but I'm not giving that up as I need it elsewhere...)

Any tips on this appreciated.  Am I stuck paying the $100 more for the full version in this scenario?


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## p_o_s_pc (Nov 28, 2012)

Sorry to say it but i'm fairly sure your stuck paying the extra for the full windows 8  .
Maybe someone else knows something that I don't about this or can confirm this.


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## kiddagoat (Nov 28, 2012)

The upgrade copies sold at Microcenter will allow you to do a full installation despite it being an upgrade.  Our Microsoft rep told us this and alot of us have done clean installs with it.  Installed on some VMs and a Macbook.

**EDIT** Should be good no matter where you buy it from.  **EDIT**


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## Jstn7477 (Nov 28, 2012)

You might be able to install the Windows 7 you own without activating it, and "upgrade" to Windows 8 Pro from that installation. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Windows upgrades only check for the existence of an OS to upgrade from and not whether it is activated or not.


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## cleverest (Nov 28, 2012)

Jstn7477 said:


> You might be able to install the Windows 7 you own without activating it, and "upgrade" to Windows 8 Pro from that installation. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Windows upgrades only check for the existence of an OS to upgrade from and not whether it is activated or not.



Hmmm, my win 7 is already activated and I read somewhere else that it does render the previous license of windows "overwritten" so you can't continue to use the older one...I don't want this to happen.

I guess I'll risk the upgrade for $40 or whatever, since it's so cheap, and if it ends up failing, at least I have a spare copy to give to someone I know.

I'll post my results here, will probably be a couple weeks or a bit more...

Thanks for the responses!


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## Drone (Nov 28, 2012)

cleverest said:


> Hmmm, my win 7 is already activated and I read somewhere else that it does render the previous license of windows "overwritten" so you can't continue to use the older one...I don't want this to happen.



Not true. Upgrade to 8 doesn't annihilate your 7 license.


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## cleverest (Nov 28, 2012)

Drone said:


> Not true. Upgrade to 8 doesn't annihilate your 7 license.


 
Will windows updates, etc continue to work properly on the Windows 7 machine?


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## Drone (Nov 28, 2012)

Yes


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## NecroNaga (Nov 28, 2012)

My question is similar to the OPs.

I already bought the upgrade version of Windows 8 last night(15$ for a new os is not bad in my opinion.) and burned it onto a disk. I was planning on using it on this comp, but I am also getting ready for building a new comp and was wondering if I should try and use the upgrade version on the new comp so I could save some money.

Should I go with my original plan and upgrade my current comp's os and buy a new os for my new machine? Or should I use the upgrade on the new machine(if I can.)?


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## Crap Daddy (Nov 28, 2012)

Upgrade is upgrade from an existing OS and while you can do a clean install I think you cannot do it on an new HDD. So you'll have to install an OS prior to clean install Windows 8 upgrade. Don't know whether you have to activate the previous version or not.


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## cleverest (Nov 28, 2012)

Crap Daddy said:


> Upgrade is upgrade from an existing OS and while you can do a clean install I think you cannot do it on an new HDD. So you'll have to install an OS prior to clean install Windows 8 upgrade. Don't know whether you have to activate the previous version or not.



I'm hearing conflicting reports on this. Many people have had success doing a clean install with it. I'm going to give it a shot, and let you all know in a couple weeks.


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 28, 2012)

I found this and it worked for me but may not for others. Burn the ISO to a disc and boot from it. Once it asks to upgrade or custom install do custom and format the HDD. After the install do the instructions below 

Ok after some research I found a fix for the dreaded "0xC004F061" Windows cannot be activated due to not being an upgrade.

Code:
1. Launch the command prompt as an administrator (Windows key & X –or CMD X if running on a Mac).

2. Type regedit and press enter.

3. Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/Software/Microsoft/Windows/CurrentVersion/Setup/OOBE

4. Look for the item MediaBootInstall and set the status to 0

5. Close regedit and head back to the command prompt that should be still open.

6. Type slmgr /rearm and restart when prompted.
http://www.techbeast.net/2012/10/26/windows-8-clean-installation-with-an-upgrade-license/


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## Jetster (Nov 28, 2012)

^^ That worked for me


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## NecroNaga (Nov 28, 2012)

@brandonwh64

That sounds like it can work for a new computer that never had an os on it before. Hmm. I might give it a try, if it doesn't work, then I guess I will go with my original plan.


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## cleverest (Nov 28, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> I found this and it worked for me but may not for others. Burn the ISO to a disc and boot from it. Once it asks to upgrade or custom install do custom and format the HDD. After the install do the instructions below
> 
> Ok after some research I found a fix for the dreaded "0xC004F061" Windows cannot be activated due to not being an upgrade.
> 
> ...



Cool thank you, I also read that some people (many of those who were using an XP or a Vista key, not a windows 7 key to purchase the upgrade from MS for $39.99) were having issues being given the option to 'create an iso' and were only seeing "install now" or "install later" options, or something like that...

Someone posted a link to a MS setup file (this requires the Win8 serial to install) that he says allows the creation of a ISO for those of you having that problem....haven't tested myself yet, but the setup does ask for a Windows 8 product key when you launch it, so I assume there is a "create iso" option shortly after....

The setup link:  go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=262204 

Hope this helps someone...


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## NecroNaga (Nov 28, 2012)

I do have another question that is tied to what I am about to do.

Will the comp need to be connect to the net in order for windows 8 to activate? Or is there a way to activate it with the comp not connected to the net?


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 28, 2012)

NecroNaga said:


> I do have another question that is tied to what I am about to do.
> 
> Will the comp need to be connect to the net in order for windows 8 to activate? Or is there a way to activate it with the comp not connected to the net?



By internet or phone.


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## Crap Daddy (Nov 28, 2012)

NecroNaga said:


> I do have another question that is tied to what I am about to do.
> 
> Will the comp need to be connect to the net in order for windows 8 to activate? Or is there a way to activate it with the comp not connected to the net?



This time around win 8 activates automatically when you are connected to the net. So it doesn't ask you to do anything.


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## TRWOV (Nov 28, 2012)

I've had a fairly good track of making fresh installs with the upgrade versions (3 so far). As far as I can tell if you have a previous _activaded_ Win7 install on the disk, you can make a fresh install over it by deleting the partitions from the W8 installer. If you format the disk previously or use a new one it will be unactivated.

Alternatively there's this workaround but some people have had mixed success with it:


> Ok after some research I found a fix for the dreaded "0xC004F061" Windows cannot be activated due to not being an upgrade.
> 
> Code:
> 1. Launch the command prompt as an administrator (Windows key & X –or CMD X if running on a Mac).
> ...


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 28, 2012)

TRWOV said:


> I've had a fairly good track of making fresh installs with the upgrade versions (3 so far). As far as I can tell if you have a previous _activaded_ Win7 install on the disk, you can make a fresh install over it by deleting the partitions from the W8 installer. If you format the disk previously or use a new one it will be unactivated.
> 
> Alternatively there's this workaround but some people have had mixed success with it:



I posted that earlier in this thread.


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## TRWOV (Nov 28, 2012)

Sorry  Kudos to brandonwh64 for the workaround. 


BTW if Win8 boots straight to the desktop then your copy is unactivated. You won't have access to the app store, customize and Metro. Desktop programs  install fine so it remains pretty usable. Didn't test if it had some sort of concurrent running programs limitation or something.


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## cleverest (Nov 29, 2012)

Very useful information everyone, thanks!  I'll let you know how my win8 upgrade (clean install) goes in a couple weeks or so.


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## DynoDon (Dec 1, 2012)

Hi folks. I found this site by accident (?) researching W8 clean installs. This may or may not be news but based on this thread -only- it might be. Using W7, I first downloaded the "upgrade" version of W8 pro as has been described to get the "discount." I saved the ISO to a folder on my HD. (I've seen some say it goes into a hidden folder but I had no trouble here) Anyway I burned the ISO to a DVD. The I removed my W7 drives, installed a single blank HD, and booted from the DVD. It said I had some data on the HD but AFAIWC it was blank. I went to advanced and combined the two partitions, told it to format (very quick) and let 'er rip.

W8 "upgrade" installed cleanly with no issues. Using the product key that was sent. Unlike some here who seem to have had some difficulty. It did not allow me to go past product key entry and "Validate online." And the process of bypassing that and modifying the registry was not required. It just installed and ran.

FYI I do not consider myself a geek (that's my sons job ) but have been around computers since MS-DOS. I've upgraded Windows many times over the years, almost always from "upgrade" media. Usually I would have to show Windows my "old" version but other than that always had good luck. This time I didn't even have to do that, W8 just installed.

Only did this today so I'm still poking around but you would have thought MS would have hollered at me before this if I screwed up.

Anyway, cool site. Just thought I'd post the above for entirely informational purposes. No flaming or anything else intended.

Thanks!


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## cleverest (Dec 1, 2012)

Thank you DynoDon for taking the time to post that, i hope I have a similar experience when I do the install!


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## DynoDon (Dec 1, 2012)

cleverest said:


> Thank you DynoDon for taking the time to post that, i hope I have a similar experience when I do the install!



You're welcome. I was pleasantly surprised it went as smoothly as it did. Hope you have the same luck. Let us know how it goes.

Now AFA W8 goes, I'm not sure I like it yet. Learning curve steepened considerably.  I'm gonna have to play with it a lot more before I convert. Once beyond the new desktop I like what I see but I need to learn how to configure the opening screens, task bar, and other stuff to my liking better. My install is on a 5-6 year old HP desktop. No touch screen here so having fun learning.


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## cleverest (Dec 1, 2012)

DynoDon said:


> You're welcome. I was pleasantly surprised it went as smoothly as it did. Hope you have the same luck. Let us know how it goes.
> 
> Now AFA W8 goes, I'm not sure I like it yet. Learning curve steepened considerably.  I'm gonna have to play with it a lot more before I convert. Once beyond the new desktop I like what I see but I need to learn how to configure the opening screens, task bar, and other stuff to my liking better. My install is on a 5-6 year old HP desktop. No touch screen here so having fun learning.




I'm in the same boat, at least as far as the touch screen goes, or lack thereof, but I will be building a brand new top-of-the-line computer with that though, so I'm excited about that. And I plan on eventually buying a laptop with a touchscreen (probably a lenovo twist) with Windows 8 if it's really that great. I know a lot of people hate it, but I'm quite the power user and I need to learn the features touch and not touch in order better to support my clients...


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## Thrackan (Dec 7, 2012)

It's not legal (as in, EULA says you shouldn't), but you can actually upgrade Windows from itself, because the upgrade program sees its own license key as a valid key to upgrade from.

Do a clean install, boot it, then install again from it.

This loophole has been around for a while now, and reported still working for Windows 8.


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## 3870x2 (Dec 7, 2012)

I would hate to use any of these shady upgrades to free install and later find out that an update wipes me out, or some other surprise in the future.


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## Thrackan (Dec 7, 2012)

3870x2 said:


> I would hate to use any of these shady upgrades to free install and later find out that an update wipes me out, or some other surprise in the future.



I would hate to pay more than I need to pay for a product 

The loophole has been around for years, and is intended to make life easy for PC-builders. With Microsofts recent step to make licensing easier for PC builders, I don't see how they would close that hole.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 7, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> I found this and it worked for me but may not for others. Burn the ISO to a disc and boot from it. Once it asks to upgrade or custom install do custom and format the HDD. After the install do the instructions below
> 
> Ok after some research I found a fix for the dreaded "0xC004F061" Windows cannot be activated due to not being an upgrade.
> 
> ...





Thrackan said:


> It's not legal (as in, EULA says you shouldn't), but you can actually upgrade Windows from itself, because the upgrade program sees its own license key as a valid key to upgrade from.
> 
> Do a clean install, boot it, then install again from it.
> 
> This loophole has been around for a while now, and reported still working for Windows 8.





 You don't even need to do all that. You can do a clean install with an upgrade disk. Ive done it a few times on a freshly formatted HD. After the second or third time it will not auto activate keep in mind. Then you just use the automated service on the phone at that point. There is NO NEED to install an OS prior to the upgrade OR do any registry edits.


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## brandonwh64 (Dec 7, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> You don't even need to do all that. You can do a clean install with an upgrade disk. Ive done it a few times on a freshly formatted HD. After the second or third time it will not auto activate keep in mind. Then you just use the automated service on the phone at that point.



Nope wrong MM, With the new windows 8 upgrades it KNOWS that it was installed clean and will throw an activation error of 0xC004F061 I have already had it throw it even on the first install saying it could not activate due to it being an "Upgrade" version on a clean install.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/why-activate-windows



> You upgraded to Windows 8, but didn't have a previous version of Windows installed (error 0xC004F061)
> 
> If you see error 0xC004F061 when you try to activate Windows 8, it means that you're using a product key for an upgrade version of Windows 8 and a previous version of Windows wasn't on your PC when Windows 8 was installed. To install an upgrade version of Windows 8, you must already have Windows 7, Windows Vista, or Windows XP installed on your PC.
> 
> If you formatted the drive before the upgrade version of Windows 8 was installed, you won't be able to use your upgrade product key to activate Windows 8. To activate Windows 8, you'll need to install your previous version of Windows, and then reinstall Windows 8. For help with the activation process, contact support.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 7, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> Nope wrong MM, With the new windows 8 upgrades it KNOWS that it was installed clean and will throw an activation error of 0xC004F061 I have already had it throw it even on the first install saying it could not activate due to it being an "Upgrade" version on a clean install.
> 
> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/why-activate-windows



Thats because you didnt format the MBR in the custom install. You have to have a non-allocated HD. Brandon Ive done this 4 times already.


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## brandonwh64 (Dec 7, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Thats because you didnt format the MBR in the custom install. You have to have a non-allocated HD. Brandon Ive done is 4 times already.



You have the FULL version key, we have an UPGRADE key!

THIS is why we got it for 15$ its can be activated for UPGRADE only.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 7, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> You have the FULL version key, we have an UPGRADE key!



Mine is a upgrade key bra.


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## brandonwh64 (Dec 7, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Mine is a upgrade key bra.



I have seen you mentioned before that you were "Cautious" and bought the full version of windows 8 and would not trust the 15$ upgrade. You even said this on TS.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 7, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> I have seen you mentioned before that you were "Cautious" and bout the full version of windows 8 and would not trust the 15$ upgrade. You even said this on TS.



I bought the upgrade bra. No full version key here.


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## brandonwh64 (Dec 7, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I bought the upgrade bra. No full version key here.



Then you must be the lucky one cause most others that had bought the upgrade version were met with the "Error" within the first week of install. Doing the regedit makes windows think that it was not installed via BOOT disc but via old OS.


Also it seems like the offer is still going for 14.99$ windows 8 pro upgrade

https://www.windowsupgradeoffer.com/en-US


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 7, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> Then you must be the lucky one cause most others that had bought the upgrade version were met with the "Error" within the first week of install. Doing the regedit makes windows think that it was not installed via BOOT disc but via old OS.



Because they are not doing the format and install correctly.


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## Jetster (Dec 7, 2012)

I did the clean install with the upgrade. No issue here. Its been three weeks

This is all I did
1. Launch the command prompt as an administrator 
6. Type slmgr /rearm and restart when prompted.

The first part of the fix was already ok
"MediaBootInstall and set the status to 0"  < this was already set like that


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## brandonwh64 (Dec 7, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Because they are not doing the format and install correctly.



Please MM give us proper procedures on how it install windows oh virus lord..


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## cleverest (Dec 7, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> Then you must be the lucky one cause most others that had bought the upgrade version were met with the "Error" within the first week of install. Doing the regedit makes windows think that it was not installed via BOOT disc but via old OS.
> 
> 
> Also it seems like the offer is still going for 14.99$ windows 8 pro upgrade
> ...



I just went ahead and purchased the $99 standard Windows system builder version. I would rather have the peace of mind of avoiding problems in the future... That being said, I would like it to be the pro version, is that 14.99 applicable to upgrade my version of win8 to the pro version, Are am I stuck paying 39.99 for that?


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## brandonwh64 (Dec 7, 2012)

cleverest said:


> I just went ahead and purchased the $99 standard Windows system builder version. I would rather have the peace of mind of avoiding problems in the future... That being said, I would like it to be the pro version, is that 14.99 applicable to upgrade my version of win8 to the pro version, Are am I stuck paying 39.99 for that?



The 15$ version is a Windows 8 Pro Upgrade key. It can be used for clean installs (With reg hack or whatever mailman says to do) or as others said, Install over a clean install.


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## DanTheMan (Dec 7, 2012)

For Windows 7 I had the family pack which is the upgrade disk with 3 installs. I would do a quick format on a new hard drive and install Windows without the internet cable connected. Let it do a full install without activating. Then reinstall Windows over itself (it sees your 1st install as your old OS). After installing I reconnected the cable and activated. I've had zero problems from all three installs.  I'm not sure if the same applies to Windows 8 but it sounds like it.

Good Luck


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