# Sound Blaster X-Fi Issues Explored



## SpoonMuffin (Jan 19, 2007)

> Introduction
> Back in May, we published an article and report about many issues reported on the latest Creative Labs product – The Sound Blaster X-Fi. A few weeks later Creative released information and blamed DDR Dual Channel for these related issues. And, after a few months, they changed their version and blamed Nvidia’s nForce4 for these issues, instead. Nvidia never responded to us about their side in the story, but they denied it on a chat.
> 
> We kept following this story and we received a lot of reports from users without nForce4 that claimed they had the same issues. So, to investigate these issues, we grabbed an X-Fi XtremeMusic from the closest hardware store and checked it out on the following motherboards: Asus M2R32-MVP, Asus A8N-SLI, Asus A8N32-SLI, ECS RS482-M and Gigabyte GA-965P. We used Windows XP SP2 with the latest updates and the latest drivers for all the devices. We also used the latest BIOS versions and ensured that the X-Fi was not sharing an IRQ with any other device by plugging it into a non-shared PCI slot.
> ...



sorry i didnt copy over the images, somebody else is welcome to post them if they like, but this just conferms that creative sucks arse at programing!!!!


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## Darren (Jan 19, 2007)

Thats why I purchased the Azentech X-meridian, no bloatware, no problems. It works!


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## TXcharger (Jan 19, 2007)

ya but can u hear everything i can hear on bf2 with ultra high sound settings and eax on?


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## Darren (Jan 19, 2007)

TXcharger said:


> ya but can u hear everything i can hear on bf2 with ultra high sound settings and eax on?



Not sure, dont play battlefield.

It supports only upto EAX 2.0, So i doubt I can enable EAX HD

EAX will be redundant once vista is out as Microsoft is dropping direct sound 3d which EAX is an extention of.

But on the plus side I get Dolby digital and DTS bitstreams to my AV reciever in any game with more than 2 channels


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## TXcharger (Jan 19, 2007)

uh...me to


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## Sasqui (Jan 19, 2007)

What other alternatives are out there that can compete with the features of the X-Fi?


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## SpoonMuffin (Jan 19, 2007)

Txcharger: acctualy read the review of the razor sound card, bf2142 sounds BETTER with the razor sound card then with the x-fi, the razor card uses the exect same chip as the auzentech X-meridian

and those extra "voices" acctualy dont help the game be more real, the human ear can only hear so many voices befor its overloaded and cant hear anymore.

as stated EAX isnt gonna work under vista as it does now under xp.

eax above 2.0 isnt worth the bother honestly, and the x-fi has WORSE audio quility then the X-meridian or razor sound card, im not talking just games or just music i mean allaround worse quility!!!
creative crystalizer is NASTY, sounds worse then my adi1988 onboard sound!!!!!, well acctualy spec wise the 1988 is better then x-fi in many ways anyway 

your x-fi is made of fail and expence as they say about things like the ps3


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## TXcharger (Jan 19, 2007)

uh let me guess u like macs to


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## cdawall (Jan 20, 2007)

SpoonMuffin said:


> your x-fi is made of fail and expence as they say about things like the ps3


PS3=cheapest blu-ray player+gaming console=very nice


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## Darren (Jan 20, 2007)

TXcharger said:


> uh...me to



I doubt it as with Creative cards you can only experience DD/DTS with pre-encoded sources such as DVD's (even a 10 pound soundcard can do this)

Azuentech's X-meridians have a built in encoder so one can still experience DD/DTS from MP3's, avi files, games (including battlefield), any sound source!


No disrespect, Creative make good soundcards, but none of their x-fi series include DD/DTS, I believe creative support Dolby EX though, which is a fancy way of convertig 5.1 to 7.1


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## Darren (Jan 20, 2007)

Sasqui said:


> What other alternatives are out there that can compete with the features of the X-Fi?



Bluegear's B-Enspirer kicks crap out of the X-fi!!

Features:

Features for BlueGear's b-Enspire sound card can be found on BlueGear's web site. 

DTS® Interactive - a real-time 5.1 channel encoder that takes 2 or more channels and encodes them into a DTS bit stream 
DTS® NeoC - an up-mix matrix that turns any 2 channel audio into 7.1 channel surround sound 
Dolby® Digital Live (AC-3) real time 5.1 channel encoding bit-stream to facilitate the connection with CE AV receiver 
Dolby® Pro-Logic IIx surround processor, spreading stereo audio into 7.1 channel surround sound 
Renowned Dolby® Headphone technology, conveying 5.1 surround and 3D gaming audio over stereo headphones 
The latest Dolby® Virtual Speaker solution, creating amazing virtual surround sound from a generic two-speaker configuration 
C-Media FlexBass™ - configurable LFE channel crossover frequency (from 50 to 250Hz) 
C-Media Magic Voice™, a popular feature for disguising voice in online chatting 
C-Media Xear3D™ 7.1 Virtual Speaker Shifter technology 
C-Media's unique Karaoke functions: Microphone Echo, Key-shifting 
Individual 10-band EQ for each channel 
27 global reverberation environments 
Supports most industrial standards of 3D sound for PC gaming, including EAX™ 1.0&2.0, A3D™ 1.0 and DirectSound™ 
Supports 7.1 CH digital audio playback for WinXP/2K,/ME/98SE(Microsoft® DirectX V.9.0 and above is required) 
7.1 channel output – Up to 7.1 channels of pristine 24-bit/192 kHz audio output 
High Quality Stereo Input – Two channels of 24-bit/96 kHz audio input for super-clean recordings from instruments and other line-level devices 
Dedicated Microphone Input 


http://www.atruereview.com/bluegears_enspirer/index.php


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jan 20, 2007)

there ya go,built in dts.

its as bad as intel versus amd.you pay your money,you take your choice.

why argue about it?


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## Grings (Jan 20, 2007)

battlefield 2 is the only game you'll ever hear mentioned when discussing x-fi's (2142 dosent count, its a standalone mod)

1(1.5) game(s) vs many issues??, no thanks


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## Darren (Jan 20, 2007)

tigger69 said:


> there ya go,built in dts.
> 
> its as bad as intel versus amd.you pay your money,you take your choice.
> 
> why argue about it?



I established that DTS/DD can be achieved but ONLY with pre-encoded material such as DVDs, any soundcard can do this.

I bet you any money that when you play an MP3, you only get prologic or PCM-48 from your AV reciever


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## Grings (Jan 20, 2007)

Darren said:


> I established that DTS/DD can be achieved but ONLY with pre-encoded material such as DVDs, any soundcard can do this.
> 
> I bet you any money that when you play an MP3, you only get prologic or PCM-48 from your AV reciever



this is why i still use my (4 year)old nforce2 soundstorm for jukebox/movies


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## Darren (Jan 20, 2007)

Grings said:


> this is why i still use my (4 year)old nforce2 soundstorm for jukebox/movies



Indeed the soundstorm were gd.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jan 20, 2007)

from here-http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1893828,00.asp



> One issue with the X-Fi—and we've seen this in other Windows Media Center solutions—revolves around problems with digital audio output. As it turns out, protected content isn't allowed through the digital audio output port. This includes DRMed music downloaded from pay music sites and DVD-Audio playback. However, Creative has a solution for this. It can best be described as a workaround that costs a hundred bucks. It's not elegant, but it does work. It's called the Home Theater Connect DTS-610.
> 
> On the surface, the DTS-610 is a silly idea. It takes the analog multichannel output from a Creative Labs sound card and converts it to digital audio so that you can pipe it to your A/V receiver.NOTICE- It's a workaround for dealing with content-protection issues forced on Creative Labs by the content providers.-NOTICE It probably works with non-Creative Labs audio hardware, too. One very cool thing that Creative did is that the digital output is either direct (PCM) or DTS audio. The compression ratio for DTS is lower than with Dolby Digital, so the whole affair probably sounds better. If you prefer the processing capabilities built into you're A/V receiver, you can just use the direct option.



http://www.extremetech.com/image_popup/0,1694,iid=121022,00.asp

http://www.extremetech.com/image_popup/0,1694,iid=121023,00.asp


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## Darren (Jan 20, 2007)

So you admit it, the DTS-610  is not an X-fi card. Just an optional device creative put together to get extra money from their customers! X-fi's dont have DDL/DTS encoding!


That how you know creative dont appreciate their customers, makin' them purchase an DTS-610  after shelling out for a high end X-fi...oh yeah then you still need the AV reciever as well!!

The DTS-610 supports DTS and PCM 48, but what about prologic and Dolby?


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## TXcharger (Jan 20, 2007)

well i still have to say i saw an incredible increase of my fps in bf2 with my x-fi card let alone im not being killed as easily lol

but x-fi is still probably the best soundcard on the market for gaming...the razer is good but i think that the creative x-fi series has alot more to it


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jan 20, 2007)

As it turns out, protected content isn't allowed through the digital audio output port.

NOTICE- It's a workaround for dealing with content-protection issues forced on Creative Labs by the content providers.-NOTICE


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## Darren (Jan 20, 2007)

TXcharger said:


> well i still have to say i saw an incredible increase of my fps in bf2 with my x-fi card let alone im not being killed as easily lol
> 
> but x-fi is still probably the best soundcard on the market for gaming...the razer is good but i think that the creative x-fi series has alot more to it



I've heard EAX HD, and it is indeed impressive. I dont know much about the Razor but the spec is almost identical to the Mederian and there are a couple of threads were people are actually tradin' in their X-fi's for X-Meridians  

I'm not a company basher, I respect creative as they are on top, but they need to give us more value/features and stop making us buy Y just to fix X, then make us update driver Z to get Y and X correct.


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## Darren (Jan 20, 2007)

tigger69 said:


> As it turns out, protected content isn't allowed through the digital audio output port.
> 
> NOTICE- It's a workaround for dealing with content-protection issues forced on Creative Labs by the content providers.-NOTICE



Tigger69, how come other companies such as Bluegear, Azentech and Nvidia have not followed this protected content rule? as they offer DD/DTS through coax and optical.

TXcharger read these:

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1113796

http://forums.anandtech.com/message...eyword=&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear


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## Grings (Jan 20, 2007)

upmixing from analog?, i wouldnt let anything that uses 3.5mm audio jacks near my receiver, even with the highest quality cables, the signal loss is unacceptable

And the c-media chips are lacking in game features

come on nvidia, make the soundstorm2 (preferably as a seperate card)


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## Darren (Jan 20, 2007)

Grings said:


> upmixing from analog?, i wouldnt let anything that uses 3.5mm audio jacks near my receiver, even with the highest quality cables, the signal loss is unacceptable
> 
> And the c-media chips are lacking in game features
> 
> come on nvidia, make the soundstorm2 (preferably as a seperate card)



I totally agree. EAX 3/4/5 features would of been nice on C-media, but with vista I guess it really dont matter?


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## TXcharger (Jan 20, 2007)

Darren said:


> Tigger69, how come other companies such as Bluegear, Azentech and Nvidia have not followed this protected content rule? as they offer DD/DTS through coax and optical.
> 
> TXcharger read these:
> 
> ...



ok...and razer stole the technology lol...i still got tons of love for razer(love my copperhead) but i guess since this chip or w/e is newer than the x-fi than it should be better, but i still own and love my x-fi and i dont really think there is much of a difference between the 2 cards. but there both damn good cards its just a matter of preference, but i do like the x-ram on the x-fi it WORKS


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## SpoonMuffin (Jan 20, 2007)

acctualy the 8768 chip is OLDER then x-fi and with up to date drivers still produces better "field of depth" for audio then x-fi.

no company but ceative can support above eax2, razor tryed but creative REFUSED TO LET 
THEM.

TXcharger, no i hate macs, i work in them and they are more of a PITA then a crappy poorly built pc when they have problems.

Grings: the game fetuers they are missing dont take away from the fact that they are allaround the better card/chip compared with x-fi, hell even my ADI 1988 onboard audio sounds better then the x-fi's i have setup and tested(as long as i use kets moded drivers anyway  )

my advice is if you dont know about the quility of c-media chips try the cheap 19$ cmi 8768 card from newegg, the shop i work at just got 28 of them in (well it was 30 but the boss took 2 of them to replace cheaper x-fi cards that where giving him problems in his media workstations) i have been impressed with them using the latest "beta" drivers, they install flawless, drivers are very small, the gui/mixer(xear) is layed out VERY well and EASY to use, drivers installed are under 30mb(over 100mb less then creatives minimal install for even the sblive 5.1 cards) 

razer didnt steal anything, they used the best audio chip on the market then built a gaming card around it, im hoping the boss orders 2 of them for testing as i have requested( one for me one for him/the shop) hes got a $8500+audio setup in the shop(all speekers/housings are hand made by him, his bother and me) thats been hooked to a soundstorm computer, but the boards going flacky(stupid gigabyte) and hes wanting to replace the system with a via c7 mitx cube system, i want him to try the razor or auzentech cards


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## SK-1 (Jan 20, 2007)

TXcharger said:


> well i still have to say i saw an incredible increase of my fps in bf2 with my x-fi card let alone im not being killed as easily lol
> 
> but x-fi is still probably the best soundcard on the market for gaming...the razer is good but i think that the creative x-fi series has alot more to it



Notice any FPS increase in other games?


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## SpoonMuffin (Jan 20, 2007)

TXcharger said:


> well i still have to say i saw an incredible increase of my fps in bf2 with my x-fi card let alone im not being killed as easily lol
> 
> but x-fi is still probably the best soundcard on the market for gaming...the razer is good but i think that the creative x-fi series has alot more to it



you mean like more bugs, more crappy software your forced to install(130+mb for driver+mixer.... alone)

you mean like a company that blames everybody else for them making crappy drivers and a product that dosnt work properly for a large number of people?

yeah its got alot moer to it alright


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## TXcharger (Jan 20, 2007)

SK-1 said:


> Notice any FPS increase in other games?



well considering that i have only played carbon on it besides bf2, and i havent played carbon with anyother soundcard....no i guess but carbon runs real well and sounds great

and this is like comparing ford trucks to dodge trucks...ones got more power but they both can get the job done...side by side both cards can get the job done really well, im still happy with my choice until somethn happens and makes me unhappy but for now i love my x-fi

and ya i did originally have some problems with my x-fi drivers interfering with my soundblaster live drivers, but i just took everything off and redid it and it works fine. i have only had one other problem and its the little console doesnt always come up and for some weird ass reason unless u have it in game mode bf2 wont recognize it as a x-fi card...its dumb but it works and it was worth every penny because it has better sound quality than what i was using and i can listen to music and hear everything, i can play bf2 and hear ppl sneaking around 20+ feet away so i can  take action and hide when im  a sniper and blow their head off , and shoot i can even make music if i wanted to. and i wish i could compare the barracuda and my Fatality side by side to see which was better, but i cant so i picked what i wanted and love it...so cant we all just get along? lol


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## Guttboy (Jan 20, 2007)

Well certainly an interesting topic.   From what I have gathered, correct me if I am off base here Spoon, but you like very efficient minimal impact programs/drivers for your computer right?  I have an XFI extreme gamer in my computer...cost me $80...and I LOVE IT.  I was using the onboard 5.1 on my MOBO and thought I loved that.  I use it in America's Army (reason for purchasing) and like TXcharger, I can hear guys across the map, sneaking up on me, localize their positions, etc.  I have many friends that use the XFi series and they are completely satisfied with it as well.

I am not doubting your evaluations or knowledge on the subject, in fact, it is quite educational.  But for those of us that are not having any problems associated with the card...I think it is outstanding.

TXCharger....I am in San Antonio as well!!  BTW...I like Ford Trucks better....LOL.

SPoon, your article on VISTA that you posted is very interesting.  I hope that WinXP will be around (support wise) for quite some time or I will be having to attempt the other OS's out there on the mkt as the specs on VISTA and it's "processing" makes me want to vomit.


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## Steevo (Jan 20, 2007)

You like ford, why am I not suprised.



On a side note, please stay in Texas, cause if I have to hear another Texan that moved to Colorado to find work and a better life say how great Texas is.......

Anyway.


This is the reason that I like my onboard and or Turtle Beach. I had my Turtle for awhile, then I sold the machine and built this one and forgopt to pull it, but this onboard does well. I get a bit of distortion above about 97Db, but other than that it is clean and no other mods are needed to make it sound good.


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## Steevo (Jan 20, 2007)

Nothing aginst you Guttboy. I have just worked with too many Texans in constructiuon. Nice people, but their love for Texas is almost too much.



And Fords. Ewww.


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## Guttboy (Jan 20, 2007)

LOL steevo....where in Colorado?  The job has me here in Texas and to be honest we hate it here...thats why we are building our retirement home in northern NM.  I went to college in Colorado and if my wife's  job wasnt taking her back to NM we would be moving there.

I am a Jeep guy by trade but as far as trucks go...I like Fords.

We have lived here for 18 months and wife is leaving back for NM here in 5 months....I will be staying here til Jan 08 then "IM OUT!"

HEHEHEH.....to friggin hot, humid, moldy, etc....folks are nice but not like living in the SW.


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## Steevo (Jan 20, 2007)

High plains.



I woudn't be here except I hate people in general, mostly all the Fing Califonicators, and the Texans with their Fing F350's or Expedition-Explorer-Behemouth POS's complaining about fuel prices while ma takes a ride into town in one at 8 MPG parking in two spaces and oblivious to my little sports car. 



I don't own a gun for fear that I might start popping off idiots, and then run out of ammo before all of them are dead.



And the assholes who start their generator-motorhome at 6:00AM while I am out and about taking pics in the mountains, scaring off all the wildlife. Parking two hundred feet away in a empty canyon, and setting up their shit.


Fing pisses me off.


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## Guttboy (Jan 20, 2007)

LOL.....preach on Steevo!!!!

My brother and his fiance' live in Denver...they moved from  Eagle County a year ago.  I agree with your statements....some folks need the big trucks but the majority of folks dont...kinda the "my di^& is tiny so look at my big truck!"....LOL....

The MPG thing...now thats a home run....I got a VW Jetta TDI Diesel last year and LOVE it....best MPG driving from TX to NM was 50.4!!!!  I usually get around 38-42 though...I tend to drive a bit fast....LOL....

Ok Thread Hijack over.....sorry folks!


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## Steevo (Jan 20, 2007)

Last year I shot a few with my paintball gun who were riding their dirtbikes and four wheelers right next to my camp. My son had a hard time sleeping as in a valley a mile wide they had to ride 20 feet away from my camp, despite my putting up friendly signs about riding to close.


This year it will be frozen paintballs and I will turn it up to 300FPS and see how many want some of that.


Absolutely insane that people can't read or are that stupid. But they will pay. 



And no forest ranger will come up the 5 miles of unmaintained road. I have asked and they laughed and told me to go ahead. They get tired of the idiots too.


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## Grings (Jan 20, 2007)

petrols 90p a litre in england ($1.78), cant see me getting a great big truck lol


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## SpoonMuffin (Jan 20, 2007)

Steevo said:


> High plains.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i like f450 and up, and about the MPG thing you are correct, i live in southwest washington state, and fuk all if every year we dont have a shitload of stupid californacaters as you put it show up and cause problems, they cant drive in the rain let alone snow/ice/wind lol

kinda fun watching them crash into shit because ITS FUCKING RAINING!!!!!!


i hate stupid people, but im surrounded by them!!!!!


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## SpoonMuffin (Jan 20, 2007)

grings its around 2.78 or more a gallion here!!!! (up to 380 at times)


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## Aegis (Jan 20, 2007)

Ok getting a bit off-topic here...The X-Meridian is technically superior to the X-Fi, but there's still some driver issues to work out with gaming...I recommend some people read up on this excellent, unbiased review [url=http://www.guru3d.com/article/sound/399/]here[/URL] before forming their opinions on a card they haven't even used (not that I have either). And yes, I do have an X-Fi.


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## Darren (Jan 20, 2007)

Aegis said:


> Ok getting a bit off-topic here...The X-Meridian is technically superior to the X-Fi, but there's still some driver issues to work out with gaming...I recommend some people read up on this excellent, unbiased review [url=http://www.guru3d.com/article/sound/399/]here[/URL] before forming their opinions on a card they haven't even used (not that I have either). And yes, I do have an X-Fi.



Most of Auzentech's issues were in their earlier products HDA Xplosion and Mystique but those have been ironed out.

Been using the X-meridian for about two weeks now, played various games/movies/sound files. Not had one problem. It is early days yet, Auzentech have plenty of time to release fixes and drivers for Vista

Guru3D gave it a good review: *So let me just end all the speculation right here and now: the X-Meridian is the best sound card we’ve ever tested.  There are some performance issues to be aware of, but in terms of raw sound quality, it is top notch*.


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## SpoonMuffin (Jan 21, 2007)

and the x-fi i have used has ALOT of problems in genral, many causing the card to be worthless, crackling/poping, system wide slowdowns, just a genraly bad exp, this is on a large number of systems and boards to........



> The Verdict
> 
> 
> 
> ...



x-fi dosnt encode to ddl/dts, it can play back pre-recorded tracks but  this card(and other cmedia based cards can encode to ddl/dts on the fly(hence the perf hit in ddl/dts modes in games) 

also theres the razer sound card:


> Games:
> 
> *This is what the AC-1 is specifically targeted at. Directional accuracy, being able to hear a light footstep coming up the stairs behind you while you are looking out a window. That’s what it comes down to. How is the AC-1 at keeping your butt out of harms way?*
> Counter-Strike:Source
> ...


http://www.virtual-hideout.net/reviews/Razer_AC1/index.shtml

they use the same chip, so the drivers should be cross compatable without any real effort  i know razors just using a newer cmedia driver core then auzentech does currently from reports i have seen on forums where ppl checked file versions.


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## Darren (Jan 21, 2007)

SpoonMuffin said:


> and the x-fi i have used has ALOT of problems in genral, many causing the card to be worthless, crackling/poping, system wide slowdowns, just a genraly bad exp, this is on a large number of systems and boards to........
> 
> 
> 
> ...




About 20mins ago I attempted to install the Razor drivers, they appear to only work in conjunction with Azentech's drivers otherwise it wont detect the X-Meridian:S

PS. Auzentech have offically advertised Vista and Open AL support!!

*Compatibility*

Q : Are Auzentech Soundcards compatible with Microsoft Windows Vista?
A: Our developers are hard at work on the Microsoft Windows Vista™ drivers. In the meantime, return here for regular updates.

Latest News about Vista Compatibility

*01/18/07*
We are pleased to announce that Vista-compatible drivers for our Sound Cards should be available the first week of February. As soon as the drivers are posted , this page and the download page will be updated. 

*11/22/06*
This feature clarification is a response to support questions concerning the lack of DirectSound™ hardware acceleration in Microsoft Windows Vista™.


Dolby® Digital Live and DTS® Connect will be supported. 
Auzentech will continue developing support for OpenAL


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## Scavar (Jan 21, 2007)

I must have really good luck. I have an X-Fi Fatality Gamer, not a single problem. Installed it with the drivers from the CD. Everything sounds wonderful on my Logitech Z-5500, games run better then they do with my Soundblaster Audigy 2. 

I mean all games, not just BF2/2142. So yeah, no problems and I love it.


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## SpoonMuffin (Jan 21, 2007)

Scavar, some people have no problems but many others have HUGE problems, this is because CREATIVE DIDNT TEST THEIR CARDS PROPERLY!!!!!!!

they blame everybody else for problems THEY CAUSE by not insuring that the card will work with the majority of 3rd party hardwares.

Darren, auzen and razor work dirrectly with cmedia to develop their drivers, so anything with the same chipsets will have working vista drivers.

the problems with older cards where mostly driver based and are being worked out or have been worked out, eax on xplosion cards passes with the current forums downloadable driver on our test systems, anything 8768 and up passes, and cmedia is updating drivers for their 8738 as well(a card thats around the same age as the sblive cards) this is better then the 5+year old sblive 5.1 drivers you download.


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## Specsaver (Jan 22, 2007)

@Spoonmuffin and Darren 

I think at this stage we all know how much you like DDL technology whatever name it comes under - Razer or Auzentech. I am sure you are motivated solely by search for ultimate audio quality and I appreciate you know so much about products you have never owned such as X-Fi.

 

I am sure DDL is great even though it caused audible latency on my nForce2 motherboard.
(yes it was onboard sound feature some time ago)

 DDL or DTS connect are simply technologies of encoding and compressing surround signal so that it fits into limited bandwidth of digital interface, to be precised - SPDIF that was NOT intended for surround sound. 

 DDL or DTS do not make sound sound better - it is quite obvious if you know anything about audio technology. One of you guys mentioned how cool it is to have mp3 in Dolby - now this is misleading piece of BS and you should know this. Technically you are right - you take mp3 or even fm radio stream, put it into line in, encode it into Dolby Live. How will it sound? Still like mp3 or FM radio.. And it makes no sense anyway for stereo does not require DDL to be sent via SPDIF. Regular PCM would do and any card can do this.

Okay, so DDL can be used to transport audio digitally to a  receiver. But you would do this ONLY if your receiver has high quality so that digital to analog conversion on the receiver has better quality then the same process on the sound card. 99.9% of folks out there do not have receivers so telling them to go and get a sound card because of DDL or DTS connect encoding is ridiculous, or actually, very cynical.

 If you do not have high quality and this unfortunately means: expensive receiver  there is no benefit in having DDL etc. The only benefit is less cable clutter, but anyone right in their mind would rather have:

-bit-perfect playback for audio
-hardware audio processing for games
-full EAX 5.0 support

then one cable instead of 3. 

If anyone, right in their mind, wanted DDL at the expense of hardware audio processing, full EAX support, actual Vista support etc they would rather grab an Asonic card that has DDL for £15 instead of this overpriced  stuff from Auzentech, not to mention Razer - with this AC1 soundcard they just went over the top with BS - and price tag just makes me laugh

Howgh!


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## AshenSugar (Jan 22, 2007)

i have setup and tested x-fi cards, i dont want to own one, i have to deal with them enought at work trying to make them work properly in systems that they arent compatable with.

um x-fi is far from bit perfect, eax 5 is useless crap as soon as vista gaming is here( in what 2 weeks?) x-fi cant ENCODE TO DDL OR DTS razer and auzen cards can, and alot of people have ddl compatable optical and spdif ports on their recevers, i know my fathers recever has it.
your issues with "latancy" on your nforce2 board where likely because it didnt have true soundstorm or you had a crappy cpu backing it up(or both) 

and know of what you speek, the 8788 is HARDWARE AUDIO PROSESSING, vista support is there already and will be official the day vista is made public, 

the x-fi was over 350 when it came out, the highest end versions are still close to 300bucks at many places, thats a joke for a card that dosnt work in about 40% of the systems avalable.

as soon as you have tryed an auzentech or razer soundcard or at least tested one for a few days you can tell, till then STFU and stop piming your x-fi.

i know it makes you feel better to imagin that you x-fi is the better card, but really its not and no matter how many times you post that it is the facts wont change that its crapware with crappy support from creative the "its everybody elses fault our cards have problems" people.

i have setup the latest Auzentech card, got to test it for 2 days, also have setup a good number of x-fi cards, many needed swaped or cheaper cards because they crackled and poped and caused system perf issues(crappy drivers and hardware design)causing paying clients alot of annoiance, sevral opted to try onboard audio and send the creative cards back for a refund because the onboard WORKED and the x-fi just made alot of cracking and poping.

or in one case the client got an x-xplosion cheap on ebay and poped that in and used the latest cmedia drivers (hes an audiophyle) and it works great for music, movies, and yes GAMES, hes tested it under vista with beta cmi drivers and told me hes not gonna buy vista but that the card worked fine, no compat issues(but he had problems with some of his audio tools due to vista DRM crap)

again dont talk about stuff you havent acctualy delt with yourself, spoon and i have installed many many soundcards and setup many many systems, im sure more then you have seen in your life, and we both hate x-fi for the same root reasion, "it dosnt just work" you have to fiddle with it, or use boards that it likes because it is prejudiced against some board.

blah,  x-fi sucks, and will alwase suck!!!!!

and eax 5 is dead with vista gaming from what i have read


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## Specsaver (Jan 22, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> i have setup and tested x-fi cards, i dont want to own one, i have to deal with them enought at work trying to make them work properly in systems that they arent compatable with.



I presume you mean: "compatible". Would you mind enlightening me and telling what are the incompatible configurations? I am asking because I happened to help many people who were swearing they had incompatibility problems which turned out to be old bios/old driver problems etc. 



AshenSugar said:


> um x-fi is far from bit perfect, eax 5 is useless crap as soon as vista gaming is here( in what 2 weeks?) x-fi cant ENCODE TO DDL OR DTS razer and auzen cards can, and alot of people have ddl compatable optical and spdif ports on their recevers, i know my fathers recever has it.



X-Fi is bit-perfect if you want it to be bit-perfect. In Audio mode you can tick clock option and set it to any source sampling value you want. If you are not sure about what sampling rate is try asking your father - as he owns a receiver he might know what's teh deal here  

As far as EAX 5 goes it is really interesting way you use to describe 128 voice poliphony - each with up to 4 hardware processed effects... It would not do you any harm to realize generic, CMI 8768 or 8788 based cards can't handle this at all - all they can do is 32 voices all processed in software causing FPS hit. 
As I said: if you are that mad about DDL you can get ASONIC card that has this feature for £15.  It is usually useless gimmics but can be bought cheaper then from Auzentech. Auzentech and Razor priceing is just shameless, considering you can get X-Fi for about $70.



AshenSugar said:


> your issues with "latancy" on your nforce2 board where likely because it didnt have true soundstorm or you had a crappy cpu backing it up(or both)


Interesting but rather pointless speculation. Any decoding, transfer and encoding introduces latency - the real question is if it is audible. With nForce2 board I had it was audible. 



AshenSugar said:


> and know of what you speek, the 8788 is HARDWARE AUDIO PROSESSING, vista support is there already and will be official the day vista is made public


Well, you should know there is no hardware audio processing under Vista - unless the DX10 stream can be translated into OpenAL on-the-fly. But then - you need OpenAL compatible hardware. Unfortunately Auzentech is not compatible with Open AL which renders it worth $10 under Vista - this is the cost of DDL feature if you buy e.g. Asonic card. Unlike X-Fi cards that are compatible with Vista and can process audio in hardware. 



AshenSugar said:


> the x-fi was over 350 when it came out, the highest end versions are still close to 300bucks at many places, thats a joke for a card that dosnt work in about 40% of the systems available.



Any data to back this up other then the rant posted up on ngohq?  ngohq are great for news I am sorry they are so unreliable and so painfully frustrated they spit out nonsense claims every few months just to get some traffic.



AshenSugar said:


> as soon as you have tryed an auzentech or razer soundcard or at least tested one for a few days you can tell, till then STFU and stop piming your x-fi.



I am sure this recommendation is another one born out of your pure desire for best audio exprience. Not that you are pushing it to the limits? I am not pimping anything, buddy, this was my first post in this thread swamped by ignorant posts made by either silly kids or cynical salesmen, possibly both.



AshenSugar said:


> i know it makes you feel better to imagin that you x-fi is the better card,



Oh yeah, all the time. I even set my alarm clock to  wake me up at 1 and 4 am so that I can worship    my sound card every 3 hrs all day long. 

 




AshenSugar said:


> blah,  x-fi sucks, and will alwase suck!!!!!
> and eax 5 is dead with vista gaming from what i have read


get life,


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## Darren (Jan 22, 2007)

Dont worry AshenSugar I've got your back!, 

SpecSaver, I agree any DD/DTS card is pointless without a AV reciever, I personally have one and i'm really only focusing the comparison with people who have dedicated recievers or the Logitech Z-5500 which also includes a reciever.


Lets talk about prices!

*Overclockers.co.uk sells both azuentech and creative products:*

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite Pro *£211.49 inc VAT*

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=SC-031-CL


Auzentech X-Meridian 7.1 Soundcard *£115.14 inc VAT *- 

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=SC-004-HT


Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty FPS Edition *£136.29 *inc VAT -
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=SC-032-CL

Rediculous, Azentech's high end product is cheaper than Creative's highend product that came out over a year ago.  So dont go there about prices.



*Reviews:*

Here is a product review from a customer that purchased the Meridian to replace his X-fi:

Reviewed by: Mike

Had an X-FI Extreme Music card before and was happy with its sound. The X-Meridian is, however, a much higher quality sound card for music, movies and games. It may not have EAX 5 like the X-FI series but that did not bother me at all and i am very happy with it.
It's software is basic but functional and avoids the bloatware that comes with Creatives cards but what you pay for is high quality components and fabulous sound quality. I have also upgraded the op-amps for even smoother and more detailed sound through the analogue outputs.

My only issues are that with the ASIO driver and Steinberg music software which i have informed Auzentech about and am waiting for a response, otherwise it blows my X-FI out of the water.
If you love music and have a good set of speakers you wont regret getting this.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=SC-004-HT&tool=3
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS. Auzentech's products produce Bit-perfect playback as well as advertised on their specification sheet  under "*Music Playback, Creation & Movies*" ---> http://www.auzentech.com/site/support/comparison.php# 

DTS CD / DTS-WAV playback 

 Yes / Bit match (perfect) playback available


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## Specsaver (Jan 22, 2007)

Darren said:


> Dont worry AshenSugar I've got your back!,


u r both  s arent u

whatever u say guys no matter what DDL can be had for £15 with Asonic card. 
If anyone wants hardware acceleration, proper bit matched playback, full EAX support etc they can have X-Fi for less then £50
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=SC-043-CL


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## Darren (Jan 22, 2007)

Specsaver said:


> u r both  s arent u
> 
> whatever u say guys no matter what DDL can be had for £15 with Asonic card.
> If anyone wants hardware acceleration, proper bit matched playback, full EAX support etc they can have X-Fi for less then £50
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=SC-043-CL



I actually think the X-fi range's specification is fantastic. It is not soo much about the hardware but the below-par technical support and bugs, and frankly with creatives money and power these problems should be solved.

Yes you probably could get a DDL card for £15. But what about Dolby Ditigal EX, DTS, DTS Neo, and Prologic xII. 


X-Fi Xtreme Music may be £50, the same price range as Auzentech's X-plosion which features DDL, DTS, and DTS Neo through optical/coax, unlike the X-Fi Xtreme Music


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## SK-1 (Jan 23, 2007)

I was just about to start looking for a sound card when I started following this thread.
Now I am not sure what to buy.I wonder what kind of luck anyone with a system close to mine has had.
I found one on Ebay {used} with the description,.. "It's too much sound card for me"???
Wonder what that REALLY means?


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## AshenSugar (Jan 23, 2007)

Specsaver said:


> u r both  s arent u
> 
> whatever u say guys no matter what DDL can be had for £15 with Asonic card.
> If anyone wants hardware acceleration, proper bit matched playback, full EAX support etc they can have X-Fi for less then £50
> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=SC-043-CL



aww poor baby got his (_o_) kicked now hes sulking.


you can get ddl/dts playback support out of those cheap cards, but its not real time encoding its playback of PRE-RECORDED STREAMS so if you attempt to force it to real time encode a non ddl/dts sorce on the fly it cant/wont.

oh and your great "openal support" 


> PS. Auzentech have offically advertised Vista and Open AL support!!
> 
> Compatibility
> 
> ...



orignal sorce AUZENTECH WEBSITE!!!

try this for some links to reviews that compare you POS creative card(pos because creatives drivers and support suck.) with auzentech cards
http://www.auzentech.com/site/company/review.php#xmeridian

oh and check these charts!!!

128voices :O  wow same as creative,  look better 7.1 sound  auzen=24bit-192khz  x-fi= 24bit 96kiz, wow guess ur cards not the best ROFL

now you can admit your full of crap or you can just look like an @ss


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## Polaris573 (Jan 23, 2007)

Keep it civil guys.  I see feathers starting to get ruffled.


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## AshenSugar (Jan 23, 2007)

polaris, im not mad, i acctualy find his fanboi  "you down own it" or calling us potsmokers funny.
truely funny part is that he dosnt know ANYTHING about the auzencards other then they  arent creative cards and thus must not be any good..

had he owned ANY of their cards he wouldnt be saying the x-fi is sooo great and flawless.

you may want to give him a pm let him know that personal attacks arent good tho, as some people would have found the potsmoker implication as an attack/accusation


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jan 23, 2007)

actually ashen,your the one that seems like the fanactical auzentech fanboi to me.your the one constantly trying to show how much *better* the auzentech is over the x-fi.

and i dont know shisen about auzentech either,but i wish you'd stop going on about how much better it is than the x-fi.talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

what does it really matter? people buy whatever they like,whatever you say.just let people make their own mind up what they want to buy.


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## AshenSugar (Jan 23, 2007)

acctualy i like auzen,razor and anybody who makes a card thats not creative,   creative drivers suck, they will suk till they bother to fix them, but thats probbly not gonna happen because they are still making $ off their cards in droves.

clearly you have x-fi and think its the best thing in the world, your bias based on your GOOD LUCK with x-fi working for you, many others dont have GOOD LUCK and endup with mass problems with x-fi, read the creative forums massive numbers of posts about problems with creative x-fi cards and drivers, then go and deal with those problems yourself for a few weeks, trust me its not a user error thing its a creative sucks thing.

use the attachments and links i gave to take a look, ur x-fi dosnt look so much better after you do, infact it looks kinda pathetic


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jan 23, 2007)

if i'd have known about all the problems before i bought it i probably would.nt have.and no i dont think its the best thing in the world.at least i'm not making post after post about how crap one is compared to another one which you think is the best.

true i have had no problems with it.i DO agree with you on the bloated drivers tho',that has always bugged me about creative,and i have looked at the forum and all the poor sods who are having problems.if i could go back i would probaly buy the auzentech one instead.i have only ever bought creative coz i dont know diddly about any others.you have certainly opened my eyes on that front.

and dont think i am having a pop at you either coz i aint.you just seem a little biased towards the auzen which makes you seem like the fanboi is all.try to be a little more neutral eh.if the x-fi is worse than the auzen,so be it but you dont need to keep going on about it.i will accept it is probs better from reading what you have put.but that may be down to creative being a bit lax with the drivers more than hardware problems.

please dont lets turn this into a flameathon.


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## AshenSugar (Jan 23, 2007)

i post this stuff because at least 3 times a week since i have been posting here somebody asks something about sound cards be it "is pci sound better then onboard sound"
or "is this sound card better then that soundcard" if there was a sticky pointing people at the soundcard threds that would be helpfull, would let people read them first and if they didnt, well then people could just ignore them till they READ THE DAMN STICKY!!! 

sorry but answering the same question 50 times in a row does start to get old, well at least to me i duno about you, you could very easly like answering the same questions over and over and over and over and over and over and over..........................

also note that there arent alot of high end soundcard makers out there anymore, auzentech and razor are about it for high quility cards :/  but seems like more companys are starting to get into that market so we may have more options to offer soon then razor,auzentech,creative.

and if you think that the drivers for creative carrds are bad to you imagin being on 56k again and needing to update ur drivers because the poping/static/perf issues are unbarable then finding out the basic driver pack is 130mb *crys at thought*

creative could fix these issues they have the resorces, but they dont want to take the time when they are making $ hand over fist without fixing them. 

so i offer GREAT alterntives to people who just want their pc to work and work well without any worrie about "when i get this is it going to work or is it going to pop/click and drop system perf"  

if there where other high end cards avalable i would point ppl to them, in another threds i pointed out that tuttle beach has some nice cards, but they are harder to find in my exp eather alwase being sold out or in many cases being priced higher then the auzen cards but having lower  analog audio quility.

a agree this shouldnt turn into a flameathon, save that for other forums where if you post something about vista you get 30 prople who havent even tested it jumping up ur arse that its great  (neowin forums, ewwwww)


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## Darren (Jan 23, 2007)

This thread is fantastic and should be stickied. Moderators could you extract the advice SpoonMuffin, Ashsen Suger and myself have provided and put it into a sticky. I think it is improtant newbies have a sound sticky so that we dont have to answer questions like "Is PCI cards better than onbard", or "is EAX better than DD/DTS".

Thanks, appreciate it. Get back to us!


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## AshenSugar (Jan 23, 2007)

there are a crap load of these threds if you search for soundcard or sound card  or pci audio its endless, truely endless 
same with psu threds, never ending questions


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## Polaris573 (Jan 23, 2007)

I really don't see anything special about this thread, especially when it starts to devolve into members calling each other potheads and so forth.

Here I can summarize all 60 posts:

"X-Fi is bad becuase it has compatibility issues and creative's drivers are bad too.  Nobody should buy them. Auzentech is good everyone should buy them"

"That's not true! I love my X-Fi!  Auzentech isn't any better!"

"You don't know what you're talking about blah blah blah X-Fi is crap."

"sound cards increase FPS in Games and sound better"

"No they don't onboard is just as good or better"

If you do a search you'll find the exact same arguments in at least two different threads.  Running a search on the X-Fi in these forums or on google will easily turn up this information. I truly am sorry if I'm sounding like a jerk, but it's the truth.  If you can convince someone else to sticky it I'll, of course, leave it stickied.


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## Darren (Jan 23, 2007)

lol, yeah true, i'm not impressed with the constant putting people down and name calling. 
Throughout I was diplomatic as I respect both Creative and Auzentech!


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## AshenSugar (Jan 23, 2007)

i could bring up that your view is probbly a bit scewed by the fact that you have an (assumibly)probbly free x-fi 

and i never said everybody should buy auzen, but if your wanting a soundcard thats got better audio quility then x-fi without all the problems and bloated drivers of creative cards auzen,razer and anybody else using the cmi 8768,8768+,8787,8788 such as turtle beach, is a better choice, problems with these cards with uptodate drivers are FAR fewer then those with x-fi.

ofcorse looking back the thred does turn into bickering by people who own x-fi against anything bad said about it.

i dont own eather, but when prices drop i probbly will get an 8787 card simple because they are better then the compotition.

and onboard can be quite reasonable, realtek is so/so and needs uptodate drivers to be worth the bother, ADI1988 fully supports EAX2.0 and lower(infact from my reading adi chipsets a few gens back even supported eax2.0 and lower FULLY)  cmedia onboard audio(hd audio mainly) from what i have been reading lately supports eax with current driver sets, also they all have workable vista drivers that are under 30mb with mixer and all.
creatives mixer+driver are 130mb!!!!!

so yes i will stick with onboard audio or cmi based cards over buying an x-fi or other creative card, i prefer drivers that are updated fairly regularly, arent oversized due to bloat, and JUST WORK!!!

yes its that old "it just works" thing again


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## AshenSugar (Jan 24, 2007)

Darren said:


> lol, yeah true, i'm not impressed with the constant putting people down and name calling.
> Throughout I was diplomatic as I respect both Creative and Auzentech!



dont remmber name calling?  dont think i did, but then again the guy above called us potsmokers so.....ROFL  (if yall knew me you would know pc's are my drug of choice, never smoked up and been drunk 3times in my 28years of life, hangovers suck)


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## Polaris573 (Jan 24, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> i could bring up that your view is probbly a bit scewed by the fact that you have an (assumibly)probbly free x-fi



Honestly, and with no sarcasm, I have to tip my hat to you for creating a decent, effective insult.  I value my impartiality and strive to be as objective as possible.  You still fell off the mark though.

To answer your question.  No, my X-Fi wasn't free, I'm am not a hardware reviewer and receive no money from TPU.  Although I am satisfied with it, If I had to buy another sound card today I would probably buy one of the auzentech sound cards. This is because they are supposedly better for listening to music and that's mainly what I use my X-Fi for.  I haven't noticed much of an improvement in gaming when I compare my Soundblaster Live! to my X-Fi, but I can hear a difference in the quality of the music I listen too.

I tried to stay out of this thread because I've posted my views on the X-Fi and soundcards in general on a multitude of other threads.  I only wanted to keep this thread on track and keep it from devolving into another worthless, closed, soundcard thread.  Unfortunately you managed to draw me in once again.


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## AshenSugar (Jan 24, 2007)

sorry it was sposta say problem free!!!!!  sorry for the typo i would edit it but this does the job.

EDIT had dysxleia and said sya insted of say.

also wanted to point out that till you have delt with the problems that x-fi can have on any number of systems you really cant appriciate how frustrating it can be, spend a week trying to get a card working and consistantly having creative tell you that its irq conflicts, or your ram or your cpu or your motherboard, then you stick in another high end audio card like an Maudio card and have it work FLAWLESS from the start, thats when you start to dispise creative support!!!!(not to mention the full sblife 5.1gold/plat drivers that never did arrive for x64)


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