# Can I cut my 4 pin up/Tie them together?



## DaMulta (Oct 10, 2007)

OK I know that you can't combine the red and yellow, but can I cut the 4 pins and tie two yellows together, and the two blacks together to share the load.

I'm about to hook up a TEC on my CPU, and want to run this off my PSU.


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## bassmasta (Oct 10, 2007)

I see no problem with it, in fact in theory it should make little difference, but on the other hand.... I blew up a battery.


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## DaMulta (Oct 10, 2007)

Yea I think I can do this, but I wanna be kinda safe about it.


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## panchoman (Oct 10, 2007)

i dont see any flaws to it other then the fact that the psu might not be able to power it. also damulta, im interested to see how this works out.


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## DaMulta (Oct 10, 2007)

I want to run this one at 12 volts.

 The plan is to have two of them on the video cards with the meanwell at 17volts, and the 12volt on the CPU.


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## KennyT772 (Oct 10, 2007)

Well as long as you can carry the load on the psu it should be fine. Figure out what wires are from what rails and use a empty rail (or bridge two) for the TEC, or you will just trigger overcurrent protection and the system will shut off.


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## DaMulta (Oct 10, 2007)

How would I find out what rail is what?

Is the 8pin and 4 pin on the same rail?

So tying them together is ok when done like that.


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## strick94u (Oct 10, 2007)

I have a nice tec setup from swifttech that was built for a p4 I tried to run it off power supply but with the cpu volts up it did not leave enough current for it. If you have a big watt psu with enough amps you are ok. I ended up buying a 320 watt 12volt 24 amp and relay kit for it. If your setup don't work give me a hollar ill make you a deal on it it has very little time on it and is just taking up space.


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## DaMulta (Oct 10, 2007)

I have a meanwell already, but 3 TECs will over do it. I think my 1k can handle this one.


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## ex_reven (Oct 10, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> I have a meanwell already, but 3 TECs will over do it. I think my 1k can handle this one.



3 TECs 

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.


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## DaMulta (Oct 10, 2007)

> A substantial change occurred in the ATX12V v2.0 specification, which changed the main power connector from a 20-pin to a 24-pin format, removing the 6-pin auxiliary power connector. In addition, the ATX12V v2.0 specification also isolated the current limit on the 4-pin processor power connector for the 12V2 rail (+12V current is split into the 12V1 and 12V2 rails). Later, the ATX12V v2.1 and v2.2 specifications also increased efficiency requirements and mandated various other improvements.



Ok so that's two rails I wonder what rails the 8pin is on.


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## KennyT772 (Oct 10, 2007)

You should be able to find a wiring diagram for your unit. Find one or two mostly unused 12v rails and draw the power from that. If you have a 1k psu you should be able to run a 226w tec no problem. A 320w may be a bit of a stretch.


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## DaMulta (Oct 10, 2007)

This is gong to be a 170, but I do have crossfire HD2900XT installed on it too.


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## panchoman (Oct 10, 2007)

damulta, how many amps does that cpu tec eat? you may need to bridge two rails so that you get 36A on the tec rail cause a single rail does 18A at the max. how many watts is the tec too? it would be hard to pull off 2900pros in x-fire along with a 437W tec on a 750W psu i would think lol.

edit: bridge the 2 rails and you should be able to pull off a 170W


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## DaMulta (Oct 10, 2007)

OK they say it is a 188watt
then this is listed


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## KennyT772 (Oct 10, 2007)

170w tec? Run it from two mostly unused rails just for safe measure. We don't want any melted cables on that psu. Look in your psu manual or on the manf website for a rail listing.

edit- 9.3amp at 12v isnt that bad, just find a extra pci-e connector and use the 3 wires from that to power it. Says it pulls 110w at that voltage.


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## DaMulta (Oct 10, 2007)

I'm using both of them on the HD cards, along with both 8pins.

That's why I was wondering if the 4pin CPU could handle this load together.

I'm going to put it on a 65watt CPU.


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## panchoman (Oct 10, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> OK they say it is a 188watt
> then this is listed



should be easy for your psu to pull that. 110W and only 9 amps, as kenny said, something like a pci e connector should do the trick well.


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## KennyT772 (Oct 10, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> I'm using both of them on the HD cards, along with both 8pins.
> 
> That's why I was wondering if the 4pin CPU could handle this load together.
> 
> I'm going to put it on a 65watt CPU.



4pin cpu is already being hit hard by the overclock. Try two unused molex and sata leads. 1 wire should be plenty but personally I would run it from two. The 4pin and 8pin are on the same rail, which already has probably 6-8amp of draw on it, whereas your molex/sata have maybe 1amp each.


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## DaMulta (Oct 10, 2007)

Thanks again.


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## strick94u (Oct 10, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> I have a meanwell already, but 3 TECs will over do it. I think my 1k can handle this one.


3 tec's what are they on? and at this rate you may need a tec to cool that 1k psu


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## panchoman (Oct 10, 2007)

strick94u said:


> 3 tec's what are they on? and at this rate you may need a tec to cool that 1k psu



hes got 2 on the 2900pro's and 1 on the cpu i believe.


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## DaMulta (Oct 10, 2007)

2 of them will be on the meanwell 320 PSU.


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## hat (Oct 10, 2007)

you're craxy, tecs on everything


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## KennyT772 (Oct 10, 2007)

Which psu are you using on this DM? Your sys specs say you have a 750w.


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## DaMulta (Oct 10, 2007)

I need to update that. 
http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=27100
Quattro 1000
1000W TruePower Quattro


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## KennyT772 (Oct 10, 2007)

I can't find a single review of that unit. I'm sure you don't want to void the warrenty by opening it up and tracing the wires. I guess just hook it up to the system and run it full load, if the psu cuts out try a different connector. Thats the only way to find out which it will work on.


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## keakar (Oct 10, 2007)

panchoman said:


> damulta, how many amps does that cpu tec eat? you may need to bridge two rails so that you get 36A on the tec rail cause a single rail does 18A at the max. how many watts is the tec too? it would be hard to pull off 2900pros in x-fire along with a 437W tec on a 750W psu i would think lol.
> 
> edit: bridge the 2 rails and you should be able to pull off a 170W



this works on paper but wont work in real life, electricity is like pulling on a string, if you add an extra string you still have 2 strings not one bigger one so putting two wires carrying 18 amps together they will still supply only 18 amps because current will only be drawn from one wire. just because it has volts and amps available on both wires doesnt mean the load will "draw" from both wires. if it could then bigger wire guages would be unnecessary since you could just add a wire get get as many amps as you need. bare copper wires twisted together are in constant contact the entire length and electrons can freely jump from one wire to the next so this is how they can carry a bigger load. if you seperated a 7 strand wire then each wire was connected at each end it would not be able to carry the same load because it was now 7 smaller guage wires.

in this case the tec will start to draw from one wire but only get 18 amps and needing more will switch over to the other wire and try to draw from that wire but still only get 18 amps. it wont draw just what it needs from both.

electric devices dont draw from as many wires as you hook to them they draw from the best connection supplying as many amps as it needs, if it cant get those amps it "looks" for another connection that can supply the amps.

if you need more amps out of the psu then go into the psu and directly bypass the limiters so you can "draw" more amps on this new rail, but use a good 12 guage wire so it can handle the load. be aware this could be a fire hazard if there was a short or the tec fails so i would recommend a good quality 30 amp fuse mounted just outside the psu case.


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## d44ve (Oct 10, 2007)

Please Please Please Do Not Use The Same Psu For Your Computer As Your Tecs!!!!!!


EDIT : your meanwell 320 will run all three with no problems


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## Random Murderer (Oct 10, 2007)

keakar said:


> this works on paper but wont work in real life, electricity is like pulling on a string, if you add an extra string you still have 2 strings not one bigger one so putting two wires carrying 18 amps together they will still supply only 18 amps because current will only be drawn from one wire. just because it has volts and amps available on both wires doesnt mean the load will "draw" from both wires. if it could then bigger wire guages would be unnecessary since you could just add a wire get get as many amps as you need. bare copper wires twisted together are in constant contact the entire length and electrons can freely jump from one wire to the next so this is how they can carry a bigger load. if you seperated a 7 strand wire then each wire was connected at each end it would not be able to carry the same load because it was now 7 smaller guage wires.
> 
> in this case the tec will start to draw from one wire but only get 18 amps and needing more will switch over to the other wire and try to draw from that wire but still only get 18 amps. it wont draw just what it needs from both.
> 
> electric devices dont draw from as many wires as you hook to them they draw from the best connection supplying as many amps as it needs, if it cant get those amps it "looks" for another connection that can supply the amps.



and that's why high end video cards have 2 pci-e connectors with 3 12v wires each, right?


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## DaMulta (Oct 10, 2007)

d44ve said:


> Please Please Please Do Not Use The Same Psu For Your Computer As Your Tecs!!!!!!
> 
> 
> EDIT : your meanwell 320 will run all three with no problems



Are you sure about that????? That's a lot of juice.

ATi Guy coulnt run to of the 250(Around that)watts on one. The light would dem down and out.


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## keakar (Oct 10, 2007)

Random Murderer said:


> and that's why high end video cards have 2 pci-e connectors with 3 12v wires each, right?



yes that is exactly why they need all those connectors that arent all on the same plug so they can get enough power to it.


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## Random Murderer (Oct 10, 2007)

keakar said:


> yes that is exactly why they need all those connectors that arent all on the same plug so they can get enough power to it.



you just completely contradicted yourself. just walk away from the computer and get some sleep dude, lol.


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## keakar (Oct 10, 2007)

Random Murderer said:


> you just completely contradicted yourself. just walk away from the computer and get some sleep dude, lol.



you dont have the slightest idea what you are talking about and your trying to tell me about how electricity works?  lol get real

i have been working with electricty for 28 years and as far as i know they havent reinvented the way it works.

you cant just run an extra wire to double the amps you can draw, it would be great if you could because it would save millions of dollars in building costs.


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## keakar (Oct 10, 2007)

DaMulta if you are running 3 tecs off of that psu and you need more than the 18 amps it puts out then bypass the limiters like i said earlier and be sure to run it through a fuse for safety.

if you connect 2 wires together you will still only be ably to get 18 amps not 36.


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## Random Murderer (Oct 10, 2007)

keakar said:


> electric devices dont draw from as many wires as you hook to them they draw from the best connection supplying as many amps as it needs





keakar said:


> yes that is exactly why they need all those connectors that arent all on the same plug so they can get enough power to it.





keakar said:


> you cant just run an extra wire to double the amps you can draw




please, i'm not trying to insult or offend you, but you're contradicting yourself.


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## DaMulta (Oct 10, 2007)

Does the draw on DC and AC work differently Keakar?


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## keakar (Oct 10, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> Does the draw on DC and AC work differently Keakar?



no, amps are amps weather ac or dc


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## DaMulta (Oct 10, 2007)

keakar said:


> DaMulta if you are running 3 tecs off of that psu and you need more than the 18 amps it puts out then bypass the limiters like i said earlier and be sure to run it through a fuse for safety.
> 
> if you connect 2 wires together you will still only be ably to get 18 amps not 36.





Yea I'm not trying to double the load, just share the load.


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## keakar (Oct 10, 2007)

Random Murderer said:


> please, i'm not trying to insult or offend you, but you're contradicting yourself.



ok the reason they use all those extra connectors is because they are splitting the load or power device into sections.

instead of gpu and fan and ram being on the same wire they run (i dont know the specifics of how its broken up but guessing here) the ram is powered through the pci bus the gpu is powered from the wiring harness along with the fan

as for the pci connectors having 3 wires each it would be for solid stable supply of volts and amps at constant unchanging rate reguardless of other devices drawing power so if one of them had a momentary drop in amps due to other devices drawing power the other wires would not allow any loos at all because they are instantly ready with that power available.
its all about stable uninterupted power not more amps because it has 3 wires.


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## keakar (Oct 10, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> Yea I'm not trying to double the load, just share the load.



well if your goal is to evenly share the load between the tecs then it could be done (but not recommended) by bypassing the limiters and fusing each leg, then each could draw whatever they needed but they are already "balanced" because all draw from the same transformer. maybe i misunderstood what your question was. i thought you needed more power for a 3rd tec you were adding?


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## keakar (Oct 10, 2007)

Random Murderer said:


> you just completely contradicted yourself. just walk away from the computer and get some sleep dude, lol.



please forgive me, im not awake yet and need more coffee lol.

i thought you were asking about extra plugs not extra wires


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## d44ve (Oct 10, 2007)

I ran two 255watt TECS and two water pumps off the third connection..... If I can do that, you should have no problem.

Your TECs are 175, right?


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## keakar (Oct 10, 2007)

ok i reread the posts to be sure of your goals and "if" you have enough "total" amps to run everything you can run the tec as you have it now and the psu wont be unbalanced because it only has 1 transformer.

if you need more than 18 amps then, if you feel you are good with soldering you should add another rail from your psu and fuse it just outside the psu with and inline 30 amp fuse.

get some 12 guage wire one black for the ground wire and one colored for power.

first completely solder one end of both wires (this will make a solid secure connection to the psu circuit board) then solder the ground wire to the main groung terminal (where all the black wires are bundled) and solder the power wire on the transformer side of the limiter bus by laying it flat accross it and soldering it together. take care you dont unsolder anything else or you will need to resolder it. now close up the psu and about 3 or 4 inches away from the psu cut your power wire and solder in a 30 amp rated inline fuse. now add the proper size fuse for whatever the tec amps are and run wires with the harness to hook up the tec.


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## DaMulta (Oct 10, 2007)

One will be 188

The other 2 I'm about to order....thinking about the 170watt ones.


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## KennyT772 (Oct 10, 2007)

It's all in the way current is carried Keakar. If what you say is true then why do we have 3 12v leads to our video cards? Why do we have 4 12v leads on our eps connectors? Wouldn't it be cheaper to just increase the wire gauge? Guess what, twisting two wires together is the same as upping the gauge. I wouldn't recommend pulling 32amp from it, but a 100w tec would be nothing.


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## keakar (Oct 10, 2007)

KennyT772 said:


> Guess what, twisting two wires together is the same as upping the gauge.



guess what, its not unless they are bare copper and tightly wound to stay in contact with each other.
thats the whole point of the explanation about why bare wires twisted together will carry more amps when just twisting coated wires together wont. like you said "It's all in the way current is carried"

the only way to get more amps when you reach the limit of what a wire can carry is to go to a bigger guage not add another wire of the same size.


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## KennyT772 (Oct 10, 2007)

So why exactly do molex to pci-e adapters use two molex leads? Why do we have the cpu 4pin/8pin connectors? They dump into a single power plane in the board same as twisting the wires together.


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## strick94u (Oct 10, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> Are you sure about that????? That's a lot of juice.
> 
> ATi Guy coulnt run to of the 250(Around that)watts on one. The light would dem down and out.



voltxamps = watts 12x24=288 the meanwell should be able to handle 288 if the burst don't exceed 320 watts which is what its rated. if they are all 170 watt peltiers the meanwell cant


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## KennyT772 (Oct 10, 2007)

Might work if you turned the voltage down to 14v or so. Tecs draw a certian number of amps regaurdless of voltage so maybe you could run all 3 at lower voltage, and lower cooling capability. Or you could buy my Hiper 580w and run all 3 at 12v


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## strick94u (Oct 10, 2007)

KennyT772 said:


> Might work if you turned the voltage down to 14v or so. Tecs draw a certian number of amps regaurdless of voltage so maybe you could run all 3 at lower voltage, and lower cooling capability. Or you could buy my Hiper 580w and run all 3 at 12v



It takes 1 volt to push 1 amp through 1 ohm resistance 
 but where do you get 14 volts from? his meawell is 12/24 amp
his psu has 3 12 volt rails with 18 amps 
TEC's will not draw constant amps, due to increased heat resistance is not stable. 
Any readings you take off your psu should be taken with the power hooked up and under load, 
its this simple if you need 170 watts of power one rail on his psu is capable of 216 watts his meanwell is good for 288. These figures are from watts law and ohms law.


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## keakar (Oct 10, 2007)

KennyT772 said:


> So why exactly do molex to pci-e adapters use two molex leads? Why do we have the cpu 4pin/8pin connectors? They dump into a single power plane in the board same as twisting the wires together.



anytime you join two rails together you get much more stable power supply and amperages to that device but nothing extra, its just for purpose of being more stable.


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## KennyT772 (Oct 10, 2007)

strick94u said:


> It takes 1 volt to push 1 amp through 1 ohm resistance
> but where do you get 14 volts from? his meawell is 12/24 amp
> his psu has 3 12 volt rails with 18 amps
> TEC's will not draw constant amps, due to increased heat resistance is not stable.
> ...



My bad, I was under the impression meanwell psu's were variable voltage.


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## Sasqui (Oct 10, 2007)

FWIW DaMulta if this hasn't already been said, my Hiper came with a "Y" for the second 6-Pin molex.  There are two 4-pin molexes that go tot he 6-Pin, effectively connecting both the +12v lines, as well as the grounds from two separate lines (how many rails the Hiper has, I don't have a clue).


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## KennyT772 (Oct 10, 2007)

It has two rails, 20a on one and 18a for the other. Half of the Peripheral molex's are on one rail and half are on the other, atx connector and pci-e are on rail 1, cpu 4pin on rail two.


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