# MSI selling 6800NU as 6800GT



## W1zzard (Jan 28, 2005)

MSI sold lower grade NX6800GT-T2D256E (PCI-E) to customers. The affected cards have only 12 Pipelines and 5 Vertex Units as following screenshot from Rivatuner shows.








A real 6800GT has 16 Pipelines and 6 Vertex Units. Here the same Rivatuner Screenshot.






Based on this, the cards MSI is selling should be called '6800NU'.

The missing pipelines greatly affect performance, in 3DMark2003 for example, by over 10%.





3DMark Link MSI 6800
3DMark Link Pine XFX 6800

It is unclear how many cards are affected and whether only germany is affected (that's where we found those cards). There is no statement from MSI so far.

German retailer MIPS-Computer says: "We received several MSI 6800GT which had only 12 Pipelines and 5 Vertex Units. This made us wonder a bit because MSI always delivers good quality. We sold none of the defective cards to customers."

When we tried to unlock the Pipelines with Rivatuner we experienced massive artifacts which lets us think that either wrong GPU chips were used by accident, or that MSI is using cheaper lower-grade chips.

Gigabyte had similar problems in August/September 2004. In their case an incorrect BIOS was put on the sold cards - after that a BIOS Update released on their website.





Other sources tell us that Pixelview is still selling 6800LE's as 6800NU.

In case you bought such a card we recommend returning it to your retailer. Do not try to unlock the pipelines or overclock the card (both makes you lose your warranty). Also make sure to verify that you are affected by this pipeline issue before returning your card.

MSI responds here.

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## Mussels (Jan 28, 2005)

:O:O:O:O

are you sure its an LE and not a "vanilla" aka TD in the asus cards at least?

edit: just what IS the difference between LE and vanilla?


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## W1zzard (Jan 28, 2005)

there was a typo in the article .. it has been fixed .. the card is equivalent to a NU

the LE has 8P as you can see in you GPU Database


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## Unregistered (Jan 28, 2005)

Just like lastmonth another Taiwan Brand (Triplex or what I forgot) used remarked Samsung TCCD ram chip on their video cards


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## wazzledoozle (Jan 28, 2005)

Maybe the store bought the cards from a MSI distributor who is remarking lower end cards? I dont think MSI would do this themselves.


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## Unregistered (Jan 28, 2005)

These are 256MB cards.  I don't think 256MB 6800nus exist.  So it couldn't be a distributor remarking the cards.


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## Unregistered (Jan 28, 2005)

I have a MSI NX6800NU that is 256MB. Also what is up with the cores? If those are PCI-Express cards, the cores should be NV41 cores not NV40.


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## Unregistered (Jan 28, 2005)

Unregistered said:
			
		

> These are 256MB cards.  I don't think 256MB 6800nus exist.  So it couldn't be a distributor remarking the cards.



Oh yes they do, from both MSI and LeadTek. Also, bear in mind that the difference between 6800NU and 6800GT in the PigCow-Express world is also appearence of BR02 bridge chip and the manufacturing process as well.

6800 Vanilla, or NU is NV41 - 12 pipes, couple of mil transi less chip than NV40. 110nm as well.
6800GT - well, NV40 meets BR02 on same package. 130nm.

However, if guy from TechPower up was able to see "missing" pipes in the 6800NU board, then that board has a faulty BIOS. But hey, thats normal for MSI. Remember their nForce boards with that faulty BIOS chip (flash the bios, by-by the board) and that nForce2 engineering bios thing, all happened couple of years ago?

And Gigabyte, ASUS having same problems... well, it's all - "made in Taiwan". So, it's made in taiwan quality... or quirks...


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## Unregistered (Jan 28, 2005)

Yo Wizzard, what's the memory on that thing... clock?

6800NU's are something like 300-325 core and 620 to 700 memory. Does hte board has Infineon DDR-I chips (LeadTek NV41 board) or GDDR-3 (then MSI fuc*ed up the bios)?

Be more precise, dag nabbit!


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## 15th Warlock (Jan 28, 2005)

This reminds me of the time Sapphire sold 9800 Pros with 128bit bus without telling costumers.
After a guy created a web site that boycotted Sapphire products, he got them to replace the cards and put a sticker in all future 128bits "Pros" boxes.
Hope MSI or whoever did this mistake corrects it before their brand name becomes tainted as it  happened to Sapphire before.


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## Unregistered (Jan 29, 2005)

It's not the first time with and MSI and faulty cards.
Last November I bought a 9800 Pro from MSI and it had a non Pro BIOS on it (clocked only 324/279).
MSI knew about the problem, but no warning or comment from them and NO BIOS Update on their page. The only way to get the "right" card was to flash with a BIOS downloaded from a forum...


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## Unregistered (Jan 29, 2005)

A month ago i bought a RX9800 pro-td128 and i think the card is cheaper that others 9800 pro, becuz my default core clock speed is 350 mhz tried every driver that i found, still no luck, talked to the shop where i bought my card, he said that its only 30mhz and it doesnt really matter(cheap place) and i checked my card with atitool and it says my card has a r350 core, i think it supposed to be a r360 no?? now i guess i have bought a very cheap 9800 pro help will be appreciated


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## //mAr (Jan 29, 2005)

Unregistered said:
			
		

> Yo Wizzard, what's the memory on that thing... clock?
> 
> 6800NU's are something like 300-325 core and 620 to 700 memory. Does hte board has Infineon DDR-I chips (LeadTek NV41 board) or GDDR-3 (then MSI fuc*ed up the bios)?
> 
> Be more precise, dag nabbit!


The MSI 12/5 "GT" has got 256MB GDDR3 Samsung GC20, 2x DVI, ultra PCB. Only the Chips are wrong. and unlocking pipes -> pixel errors, so not only a bios fault  that's my opinion, but maybe wrong ...


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## Unregistered (Jan 30, 2005)

*What's wrong with 'Made in Taiwan' quality?*



			
				Unregistered said:
			
		

> Oh yes they do, from both MSI and LeadTek. Also, bear in mind that the difference between 6800NU and 6800GT in the PigCow-Express world is also appearence of BR02 bridge chip and the manufacturing process as well.
> 
> 6800 Vanilla, or NU is NV41 - 12 pipes, couple of mil transi less chip than NV40. 110nm as well.
> 6800GT - well, NV40 meets BR02 on same package. 130nm.
> ...




The best components are 'Made in Taiwan'! Can u name a country/region that makes better products for the same price? ie. there r no more German/Japanese electronic products for the same price any more - welcome to the 21st century!


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## Unregistered (Jan 30, 2005)

Unregistered said:
			
		

> The best components are 'Made in Taiwan'! Can u name a country/region that makes better products for the same price? ie. there r no more German/Japanese electronic products for the same price any more - welcome to the 21st century!



It´s known that Abit is using japanese capacitors in their boards due to problems related to some leaky Taiwanese ones. They are more expensive, but more reliable too because they are built with better materials and/or technology.
But I think overall Taiwan quality is fine and getting better actually. In the past, say 60's and 70's, people used to disdain "Made in Japan" products too.


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## Unregistered (Jan 31, 2005)

*From Singapore*

Hi,

You may like to know that the problem is in Singapore as well. I just bought a T2D256E and was wondering how come my benchies were so low. Checked RivaTuner after reading this thread and aha!

The local distributor is investigating, but it's certainly not their fault (good reputation and well known to the local geek community).

Anyone got a fix so far?  Is MSI saying anything?


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## ruby (Feb 1, 2005)

i'got two of them, i live in France and the same problem with the two cards.


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## Unregistered (Feb 1, 2005)

*Belgium*

Same problem here in Belgium... Bought a 6800GT PCI-E about two weeks ago, and it turns out to be a 6800NU... I'm thinking of roasting them!!! MSI, that is, not the video card!

J


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## Unregistered (Feb 1, 2005)

I've read in Norwegian forums that fake cards have been sold here in Norway as well. This may turn out to be a great scandal...


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## Unregistered (Feb 2, 2005)

Same in the UK as well. I got one and the whole batch (the supplier I bought the card from received) are 6800s as well.


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## Ruby (Feb 2, 2005)

NO FIX AT ALL. It seems that MSI 6800GT is known in taiwain to be a 12 pipeline PCI E card. The true GT with all the 16 pipes will be called 6800GTX....and will be out late february....!!!
Incredible!!!! MSI sell cards under the name GT as it is really only a 6800N "classic".
The problem exist in Finland, Belgium, Danmark, Germany etc etc....
The biggest problem is the ratio PRICE/PERF, the price is a 6800GT price for 6800N performances.....It's a shame....

And now MSI, what can u do for us??? Plz HELP.....


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## Spyder187 (Feb 2, 2005)

Ruby said:
			
		

> NO FIX AT ALL. It seems that MSI 6800GT is known in taiwain to be a 12 pipeline PCI E card. The true GT with all the 16 pipes will be called 6800GTX....and will be out late february....!!!
> Incredible!!!! MSI sell cards under the name GT as it is really only a 6800N "classic".
> The problem exist in Finland, Belgium, Danmark, Germany etc etc....
> The biggest problem is the ratio PRICE/PERF, the price is a 6800GT price for 6800N performances.....It's a shame....
> ...



Oh my! So this is now a MSI scandal!?!?

I hope you guys end up getting the card you wanted in the first place. This isn't right. Bad MSI.


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## //mAr (Feb 2, 2005)

There are still no answer from msi. 

another msi fault... selling msi k8n neo4 diamond without dual wlan card, but on package a big sticker "including wlan card" ...


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## Unregistered (Feb 2, 2005)

Ruby said:
			
		

> NO FIX AT ALL. It seems that MSI 6800GT is known in taiwain to be a 12 pipeline PCI E card. The true GT with all the 16 pipes will be called 6800GTX....and will be out late february....!!!



This is what the box says:

"Powered by NVIDIA (R) GeForce TM 6800 GT Superscalar GPU"

I cannot find _any_ references anywhere to a 6800 GT GPU that has less then 16 pipelines.

This really doesnt sound right. One thing is calling the product "6800GT" to decieve or whatever, but saying it has a 6800 GT GPU when it most obviously does not is quite another.

I doubt thats good practice even in Taiwan. There is nothing about this product that indicates that it's not based on a 16 pipe, normal 6800 GT.


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## Unregistered (Feb 2, 2005)

Oh yeah, I'm in norway and this card is confirmed being here as well. My card has 12 pipelines and 5 VU's.


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## Unregistered (Feb 3, 2005)

Somebody has to buy the faulty ones, right?
And why loose money downpricing it since tehy can cheat and get away with it...

We should really kick up some right stink about it!

We are being considered as idiots not being able to tell the difference...


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## degreco (Feb 3, 2005)

Damn. I also bought a MSI 6800GT for approx 400$. Wondered why it performed so lousy in 3dmark03 and 05 compared to other 6800gt brands...

I'll check my Card today with Rivatuner, if its an 12/5 it goes back to the vendor and i may learn a thing out of this:

NEVER MSI AGAIN!!


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## Unregistered (Feb 3, 2005)

Now; no one even half-serious would think that MSI is -scamming- us, but their quality assurance is obviously horrible. This is shown with the motherboards not having the contents of the package and these cards not actually being what they're pretendig to be.

But yes; I'm suprised about the lack of news coverage around the net on this issue.


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## 15th Warlock (Feb 3, 2005)

Those affected should create a "Boycott-MSI" Website like a guy did with Sapphire, that will certainly call MSI's attention


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## W1zzard (Feb 4, 2005)

reply from msi is here: http://www.techpowerup.com/?2105


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## Unregistered (Feb 13, 2005)

*Faulty MSI NX6800GT-T2D256E (PCI-E) UK Vadim Computers*

bought Faulty MSI NX6800GT-T2D256E (PCI-E) UK from Vadim Computers arrived few days ago have RMA'd the card but considering going to Credit Card company for full refund as product not fit for purpose. Have bought MSI for long time but unless quickly sorted to my satisfaction will never buy MSI again, ever.


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## Unregistered (Feb 13, 2005)

I had it from Vadim UK as well, but they replaced quickly at the first request with an XFX card they had in stock as I cant be bothered to trust MSI again. Apparently they didnt know the problem either, but I am happy with my full GT XFX and and pleased with the fast turnaround and great customer service of vadim


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## npc (Feb 22, 2005)

*MSI software*

I have one of the MSI 6800GTs that look exactly like the Nvidia reference design down to the mermaid picture and no MSI markings, Gladiator Computers refused a refund as the photos are "for illustrative purposes only". Everest identifies it as a 6800 Ultra but all the stats are right for a 6800GT. It's on an Asus A8N-Sli Deluxe with 1gb dual channel OCZ platinum PC3200, AMD 3500+ winchester, 1 Seagate 160gb SATA, Samsung combi and gives a 3D mark 03 score of 11205. The problem, apart from the lack of the MSI copper heatsink is its unwillingness to connect to MSI live update and when I run 3D Turbo Experience I get "MSIVGA.ocx initialization error" whatever that is. Could the reluctance to use MSI's softawre be down to the card being a generic bought in by MSI and plonked in one of their boxes, or is it something else? Emailing MSI produces a response of "read the manual or try the forum"


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## Unregistered (Mar 4, 2005)

*6800*

Ok i'm trying to understand this.  if you have a 6800 (no gt) then it is expected that you will only have the 12 piplines?  I wonder because I'm looking at my PCI-E 6800 card in RivaTuner and I only have 12.


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## Unregistered (Mar 7, 2005)

Well I also bought one of these fake gt's.  I've checked it and it also has the same problems. My local distributor ordered a new one from msi, but it also has this problem. I thought msi had correct the mistake. Nevermind I exchanged it for a Gigabyte 6800 ultra for the same price . My faith in msi has fallen down, very deeply.

P.s. I am from Switzerland I think the whole production of this card has the problem not just 350 as mentioned in the article


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## Unregistered (Mar 7, 2005)

I'm in Spain and this card is confirmed being here as well. My card has 12 pipelines and 5 VU's. Damm it!!!


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## Unregistered (Mar 9, 2005)

*6800gt Agp*

Does the MSI 6800GT AGP card have this problem as well?, just orded one then i found this artical


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## rex_power (Mar 11, 2005)

Unregistered said:
			
		

> Does the MSI 6800GT AGP card have this problem as well?, just orded one then i found this artical



There is different GPU with PCIE card


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## Unregistered (Mar 20, 2005)

This thread deserves a bump.  I also have just ordered an MSI NX6800GT TD256 AGP card.  Is there any chance it will have this problem to?  Also is there a good chance that mine with have faulty bio/drivers?


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## Unregistered (Mar 29, 2005)

can someone pls respond to the last few questions about it affecting AGP cards instead of pci express? i would like to know as well


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## Unregistered (Mar 29, 2005)

also how many pipelines are the AGP 6800GT cards supposed to have?


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## badmanhop (Apr 4, 2005)

*my nx6800gt*

Well i checked it out and found that you are all correct and i have been intouch with msi (uk) and they are to replace my card and there service has been fantastic, im sure its just been a glitch that got past the testing people which you found and now they are doing something about it, they still make a good product, i bet its nvidia's fault someware along the line, but who am i a mr no one.but still better than a s3 card or other makes that come and die out so fast you have to spend again, any ways thanks to the people who found this problem as its saved me spending time looking for  a card that is duff to start with.
end of. badmanhop.


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## Unregistered (Apr 15, 2005)

*Msi 6800gtx-t2d256e*

NCIX in CAnada is selling them and they'e not cheap: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=14542&vpn=MS-8974-07S&manufacture=MicroStar

Beware!


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## acex1138@hotmail.com (Apr 16, 2005)

*I got the probs too, but apparantly my card is the "real one"*

I bought a msi nx6800gt t2d256e and had to wait, a very long wait and then i got it, not only to notice it wasnt red but it was green, it also performed like crap, i got in contact with my mate who sold it to me and heard about the whole red\green situation but was still unconvinced that my card was the real one, even though riva said it had the 16 pipelines, after getting yes then no's from his supplier we sent it back and now they have told us they wont swap it and wont refund me im stuck with this piece of crap, i cant return it (according to them) what the hell am i meant to do?


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## RaXimu$ (Apr 18, 2005)

badmanhop said:
			
		

> Well i checked it out and found that you are all correct and i have been intouch with msi (uk) and they are to replace my card and there service has been fantastic, im sure its just been a glitch that got past the testing people which you found and now they are doing something about it, they still make a good product, i bet its nvidia's fault someware along the line, but who am i a mr no one.but still better than a s3 card or other makes that come and die out so fast you have to spend again, any ways thanks to the people who found this problem as its saved me spending time looking for  a card that is duff to start with.
> end of. badmanhop.



I am in the UK too how did you go about getting your card changed?


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## Unregistered (Apr 22, 2005)

*all throughout Europe.... at least!*

im from Portugal... unfortunely it confirms here too  
this is very bad for MSI's reputation...

even for the stores who sell MSI... they can start thinking on NOT selling their products since it can cause them to have bad reputaion amongst "low tech knowledge" or "less understandable" clients...

maybe this is why some companies are known for quality products... and some arent...



~EinZteiN


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## Unregistered (May 2, 2005)

i have the same green like a reference NX6800GT ... RivaTuner says that there are all the pipelines and vertex units... but it's not like the normal MSI cards.. i don't know how the real NX6800GT works , because before i had a radeon 9000 pro  ... now i'm thinking what to do...


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## Luigi (May 28, 2005)

bewarned, if you have been sent the GREEN PCB replacement card msi have ripped you off, i was sent the green one, it underperforms for no reason and there are numerous problems with it, it doesnt even have the copper heatsink which can lead to extreme heat problems without ventilation, through all the cards that where sold through my shop i have had every green one back for warranty work. MSI claims the green ones are perfectly fine but i have evidence these cards are absoloute crap, msi have tarnished their reputation over this and to save my shops reputation i have had to refund money to many unhappy customers over this deal, I wont stock msi again.


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## acex1138@hotmail.com (May 31, 2005)

luigi what shop you run? i think i know you


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## Luigi (Jun 1, 2005)

I run talbert computer virginia, if your near there i am currently doign a special on a Asus NF 6800T for $388!


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## acex1138@hotmail.com (Jun 4, 2005)

nah im in aus so no then, anyway just reached boiling point with this card, it has been giving me a lot of crap, and trouble for no reason, and today it just stopped working, the fan isnt even turning on

im paying a visit to the shop owner asap and am gonna get him to mail it to msi, even thinking of putting some astrolite in there just incase.......


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## R^U\BIN (Jun 17, 2005)

My brought a MSI 6800GT pci card too, it dont play my game well at all. My englesh is not too good but from whot i can read here i get that my replacement card is wrong, can anyone confirmate this?


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## tll711 at yahoo.com (Jun 22, 2005)

I bought MSI's NX6800GT-T2D256E from newegg.com last week.  The system:

Antec NeoPower 480
Gigabyte GA-K8NXP-SLI mobo
2GB 512MBx4 Crucial 3200 DDR
Seagate 300GB SATA
Plextor DVD/CD Writer

After installing WinXP, all the bugfix updates, latest BIOS (mobo and VGA), and latest drivers, I find that the OS will randomly freeze, and that certain games freeze or stutter: Tribes Vengeance and even the games that come bundles with the MSI video card -- XIII and Prince of Persia.  I haven't yet tried out HalfLife 2, but from what I hear I should expect problems.  However, Doom 3 seems to have no problems at all.  I've got the video settings maxed out and the game plays very well.

From everything I've read, this is something of a mystery, but very likely a hardware problem.  Unless I discover a fix soon I'll exchange the card for a different 6800GT from another vendor (XFX or Gigabyte), or I'll buy a comparable ATI card.


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## acex1138@hotmail.com (Jun 22, 2005)

Well the card finally died, it took part of my motherboard with it as well, luckily insurance covered that and i got it repaired, i have now sent the card of asking for a refund, i know my problem is like a 1 in 1000 stuffup but im never touching msi again, whats worse is there is now a 7800 for the same price urgg!. Im suprised at this, a friend bought the exact same card he recieved a red one and has had no problems with his at all.


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## Unregistered (Jun 28, 2005)

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, would this explain my shoddy performance??


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## acex1138@hotmail.com (Jun 30, 2005)

I cant give you answer there as I am in no position to give you a definite answer, I would lean to yes though based of my encounter with this card. MSI realy need to be punched up over this one, msi claimed the card is reliable, well I have purchased many games over the time I had that card and I couldnt play any of them thanks to it, now these games have dropped severely in price, I wonder how they would react to me adding up the total cost of the declined value of these games thanks to their card not letting me play them and send them the bill for depreciation of value and emotional damge for what this ordeal has forced me to go through, lets just say this, I discovered new and strange versions of rage and anger over this.


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## Unregistered (Jul 22, 2005)

Unregistered said:
			
		

> A month ago i bought a RX9800 pro-td128 and i think the card is cheaper that others 9800 pro, becuz my default core clock speed is 350 mhz tried every driver that i found, still no luck, talked to the shop where i bought my card, he said that its only 30mhz and it doesnt really matter(cheap place) and i checked my card with atitool and it says my card has a r350 core, i think it supposed to be a r360 no?? now i guess i have bought a very cheap 9800 pro help will be appreciated



The 9800 Pros are not absolutely R360. In fact, the R360 is the 9800XT core, except that it has been used on late 9800 pro series as I guess it's cheaper for them to produce 2 of the same core than 2 different cores. That's the reason why you have a R350, and that's perfectly normal. The 30mhz core difference isn't much as the guy told you, but if you are within the return period (usually 15 days or so) you can still return it saying you didn't want a card with a 30mhz slower core. The savings you made by buying the Sapphire card instead of the made by ATi model is probably worth the 30mhz =)


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## Unregistered (Sep 1, 2005)

I ordered this card 2 day's ago, should i be worried ? is it still possible you get one of these faulty cards ? im really worried right now couse these cards cost allot.


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