# Twin (El Cheapo) PSU with crowbar circuit project



## KH0UJ (Jun 23, 2009)

I just bought two Power supply unit (ORION HP585D) this morning, Damn I just void directly the warranty of the units just to satisfy my thought of having a steady volt @ 100 amp. max. load on the 12 volt rail, since its nearly impossible for the manufacturers ( I think) to build such an ambitiuos steady volt amp. draw @ 100 amps. continuos  PSU unit without a single .03V drop on the output (+12V) this Twin PSU is a preparation for my second soon to be rig (Hopefully) SLI 8800 Ultra and an AM3 CPU and a 4 Gb Dominator memory, My plan is to construct a crowbar circuit on the high frequency oscillator circuit in conjunction with the built-in over volt protection circuit that comes along with the PSU units, it functions as a voltage leveler on the output (+12V) the more amp. draw it can automatically adjust the output volt to compensate the huge current drain, basically the circuit functions as an automatic voltage regulator just on the +12 volt rails, it automatically steps up the voltage if it senses a bigger current drain, hopefully this will be an eye opener to the manufacturers, WE NEED A STEADYVOLT PC PSU


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## KH0UJ (Jun 23, 2009)

No more warranty on the PSU`s


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## KH0UJ (Jun 23, 2009)

I just started taking out the wires on the first PSU to calibrate and install my crowbar circuit for further bench test


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## Odin Eidolon (Jun 23, 2009)

interesting! subs!


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## KH0UJ (Jun 23, 2009)

Viola! no more wires this project also serve as a test for me on how far i can push myself to successfully fulfill my nonsense ambition 100 AMP. steady +12V rail, no drops, not even 0.01V(hopefully) geeezz! what for?


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## Odin Eidolon (Jun 23, 2009)

KH0UJ said:


> http://img.techpowerup.org/090623/DIGI0006.jpg
> 
> Viola! no more wires this project also serve as a test for me on how far i can push myself to successfully fulfill my nonsense ambition 100 AMP. steady +12V rail, no drops, not even 0.01V(hopefully) geeezz! what for?



absolutely no vdrops seems impossible to me. good luck!


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## KH0UJ (Jun 23, 2009)

This is the most interesting part on this island "NO ELECTRONICS PARTS STORE" i cant even buy a single 1/4 watt resistormeaning, i need to be resourceful again, im gonna start scavenging this server PSU for parts serves as an extreme test for me  modify the unit while scavenging the parts used, life is really great


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## crazy pyro (Jun 23, 2009)

If you're doing this kinda thing I can't imagine you'll need the warranty on the PSU (that's provided nothing actually blows up of course), you'll probably know how to fix it yourself.
Subscribed


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## KH0UJ (Jun 23, 2009)

I tried waiting on the Buy-Sell-Trade-Giveaway Forum (Techpowerup) hoping to catch someone seeling a 750W non modular PSU, everytime someone sells in a blink of an eye its sold I guess im not that lucky buyer, that`s why i just gamble my $60 on this project I prefer a soldered type PSU (non modular) to minimize the VDrop on the connectors, every connector there`s a powerloss specially on the low voltage connections, unless its a rhodium plated connectors minimal Vdrop but still there`s a drop nothing can beat the soldered wires I guess


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## KH0UJ (Jun 24, 2009)

Day 2 of my project right after work ived cut all my connector pins to create a custom length on each of my harness carefully soldering it piece by piece,


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## KH0UJ (Jun 24, 2009)

Here you go, a custom length connectors


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## twicksisted (Jun 24, 2009)

the silverstone olympia, pc power and cooling 1000w & 1200w andf the enermax galaxy have 90a on the 12v rail... is that not close enough


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## KH0UJ (Jun 24, 2009)

getting ready to attach my crowbar circuit the heart of my crowbar circuit is the undesputed LM 7812 1 Amp. voltage regulator I.C. connected as a feedback voltage leveler on the input oscillator to compensate the voltage drop due to high amp load


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## ShiBDiB (Jun 24, 2009)

this is interesting.. mainly because it feels like im in chem class and ur saying words i dont know


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## KH0UJ (Jun 24, 2009)

twicksisted said:


> the silverstone olympia, pc power and cooling 1000w & 1200w andf the enermax galaxy have 90a on the 12v rail... is that not close enough



That`s one of a hell high end PSU bro this project only cost me $60, $30 each
My aim is to reach 100 Amp continuous and 0.02V drop is not acceptable

So meaning 12.06V on idle, when i load orthos and NVidia stress test it should not drop to
12.04 on load is not acceptable


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## KH0UJ (Jun 24, 2009)

That`s it for now I need to sleep and relax I think I can finish this project in 10 days Thanks for viewing guys and welcome to my unecessary thread I just wanna see my stars counting, right now its only 3 stars and some members already exceeded to a super nova how did they do that? I just wanna see my stars go into 5


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## KH0UJ (Jun 24, 2009)

I wish I can buy an OFC (Oxygen-free Cable) wires over here, I miss those Car Audio Sound System set-ups OFC wires are rated "low loss" meaning AWG #18 OFC single wire is equivalent to a #14 ordinary wire, small wire but High amperage capacity...and expensive too


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## MKmods (Jun 27, 2009)

well I am subscribed... you sound like you know whats going on (crosses fingers)

Let us know at "The Bad Boys of Case Modding Clubhouse" if we can help you out with your mad experiments by sending materials....
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=56727


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## FR@NK (Jun 27, 2009)

The PSU is only one part of the voltage drop problem. Even with no drop on your 12v rail, you will still have drop on CPU, GPU, NB and even mem voltages when under load.


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## KH0UJ (Jun 27, 2009)

hoooo! damn! that was kind of hard speacially on the 0.02V drop, I continued working on this project yesterday after work (5:00pm-2:00am) and continued today (10:00am-3:00pm) I did not eat lunch until im finished I calibrated each PSU with only a 50 amp. dummy nicrome resistor that I made out of nicrome wire of a heating element on a dryer the reference voltage is +12.12 volts no load, I load it with the 50 amp draw
its +12.24 at least I know the crowbar circuit is working, so I recalibrate again the biases of my voltage leveler to the point that its not stepping up that much of a crowbar(0.12 Volts) Finally I got the stabilized output, now I can drink a beer


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## KH0UJ (Jun 27, 2009)

I installed directly the PSU`s on my main rig to test the actual current drains on the +12V outputs, the first picture is my reference voltage whch is 12.13 volts no load, just the windows starting-up


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## KH0UJ (Jun 27, 2009)

I installed all my test instruments to monitor everything, from noise sensors to voltage output frequency (DC ripple sensor) to voltmeter


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## MRCL (Jun 27, 2009)

I don't know jack about what you're doing or saying, but this is definately interesting


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## KH0UJ (Jun 27, 2009)

I run the NVidia stess test together with Orthos damn its a rock solid +12.13 volts
 my nonsense effort paid off


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## Laurijan (Jun 27, 2009)

KH0UJ said:


> I run the NVidia stess test together with Orthos damn its a rock solid +12.13 volts
> my nonsense effort paid off



Congrats!  does this meen that you have accomplised what no other PSU manufacturer has done before?


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## KH0UJ (Jun 27, 2009)

I swiched back to 6 pin connectors on the video card cause on my test soldering the wires and using the connectors plus the contact compound is just equal so to have a more convenience I returned back the connectors, but putting back the connectors without the contact compound had a very slight drop, (12.13 volts to 12.12 volts) so 0.01 volts drop on the PCB points which is I know its just tolerable but I just wanna be sure on my connectors to have a very good contact specially im using a mini A/C to cool my gaming rig connector couplings tends to shrink when it experiences cold air.

On the last pic is 12.15 volts after half a second it goes back to 12.13 volts, it occurs when I suddenly stop the Orthos test, I think I need to use a more responsive crowbar circuit cause it tends to function a millisecond late but at least it functions the way I wanted it to be only thing is its a bit laggy, sudden load is no problem, no voltage fluctuation, no noise generation, no nothing, but when I suddenly stop the high ampere test it blinks 12.15 volts then goes to 12.13 volts again


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## KH0UJ (Jun 27, 2009)

Im still not satisfied on this mod:shadedshuIm still looking for ways on how to reconstruct my crowbar to function as snappy as possible, but for now I`ll just leave it installed and continue monitoring  feels like my PC is on the hospital`s ICU lots of monitoring equipments


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## DreamSeller (Jun 27, 2009)

wow  are you an electrician ?


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## KH0UJ (Jun 27, 2009)

DreamSeller said:


> wow  are you an electrician ?



 no im just an absolute fan of test instruments


Can someone tell me how to make my stars at least 5? right now my stars are still 3 and im posting a lot already


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## Odin Eidolon (Jun 27, 2009)

KH0UJ said:


> no im just an absolute fan of test instruments
> 
> 
> Can someone tell me how to make my stars at least 5? right now my stars are still 3 and im posting a lot already



i think yoi'll get the 4th when you get to 100 posts? then five stars is 250 or 500 posts, cant recall


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## MRCL (Jun 27, 2009)

KH0UJ said:


> no im just an absolute fan of test instruments
> 
> 
> Can someone tell me how to make my stars at least 5? right now my stars are still 3 and im posting a lot already





Odin Eidolon said:


> i think yoi'll get the 4th when you get to 100 posts? then five stars is 250 or 500 posts, cant recall



1 = 5 posts
2 = 25 posts
3 = 50 posts
4 = 100 posts
5 = 250 posts
6 = 500 posts
7 = 1000 posts
8 = 2500 posts
Custom title = 5000 posts


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## KH0UJ (Jun 27, 2009)

FR@NK said:


> The PSU is only one part of the voltage drop problem. Even with no drop on your 12v rail, you will still have drop on CPU, GPU, NB and even mem voltages when under load.



You`re actually right on that bro, cause motherboard circuits has inductors and filters to refine and filter the DC supply lines supplying the grid, I guess we cannot do anything about that but at least we can provide or use a PSU that is a rock solid stable with no drop on the main PSU itself


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## KH0UJ (Jun 27, 2009)

MRCL said:


> 1 = 5 posts
> 2 = 25 posts
> 3 = 50 posts
> 4 = 100 posts
> ...



so meaning I need to post 200 more cause right now im still in the 50 post bracket I guess I need to post more including bumps?


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## MRCL (Jun 27, 2009)

KH0UJ said:


> so meaning I need to post 200 more cause right now im still in the 50 post bracket I guess I need to post more including bumps?



Now now don't become a post whore


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## KH0UJ (Jun 27, 2009)

Laurijan said:


> Congrats!  does this meen that you have accomplised what no other PSU manufacturer has done before?



I dont know about the HIGH END PSU`s bro, but im sure on the El Cheapo PSU`s
I think they got one, but on my other thread newteckie1 is mentioning the reviews of one of the undesputed top brands, he says they all drop, I dont know, never reverse engineered high end PSU`s before, only the cheap ones


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## KH0UJ (Jun 27, 2009)

MRCL said:


> Now now don't become a post whore



I get the Idea bro(twing) im gonna free bump each and every FS/FT threads from now on no just joking


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## Odin Eidolon (Jun 27, 2009)

all PSUs drop, even the ultra highend ones. one of the lowest drops possible can be found, for example, in antec signature's series. still, theres a 0.06V-0.07V drop.
have a look at jonny's review: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story2&reid=101


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## KH0UJ (Jun 27, 2009)

Odin Eidolon said:


> all PSUs drop, even the ultra highend ones. one of the lowest drops possible can be found, for example, in antec signature's series. still, theres a 0.06V-0.07V drop.
> have a look at jonny's review: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story2&reid=101



Ya you`re right bro, I try to see on test 5, the ripple is starting to show higher the frequency of the chopper to solve the problem
62 amps of load and the ripple showed, you gotta be kidding me


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## KH0UJ (Jun 27, 2009)

I guess that 2 high frequency transformers are really better than one only thing is the size, 2 PSU enclosure in a case is a P.I.T.A. to install


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## Odin Eidolon (Jun 27, 2009)

KH0UJ said:


> Ya you`re right bro, I try to see on test 5, the ripple is starting to show higher the frequency of the chopper to solve the problem
> 62 amps of load and the ripple showed, you gotta be kidding me



you are doing a great job. really well done, and you really know your stuff! congratz


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## MilkyWay (Jun 27, 2009)

wait what i dont want to see ignorant buit could someone please explain all this its something to do with 2 psu i thought he was making 2 rn on the same circuit but when its installed it looks nothing like that? im confused


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## KH0UJ (Jun 27, 2009)

MilkyWay said:


> wait what i dont want to see ignorant buit could someone please explain all this its something to do with 2 psu i thought he was making 2 rn on the same circuit but when its installed it looks nothing like that? im confused



its a 2 PSU build bro, im using 2 cheap PSU`s cause i cannot afford a single big one, im modifiying each PCB to compensate the VDrops on full load sacrificing the space on my drive bay to house the other PSU.


Each of the PSU`s 12 volt rail are coupled, Each of the PSU can handle 50 amp of heavy load continuous without any ripple (nicrome resistor) so I have a guaranteed 100 Amp. +12.13 volts solid with no drop only thing is its a 2 PSU project.


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## KH0UJ (Jun 27, 2009)

MKmods said:


> well I am subscribed... you sound like you know whats going on (crosses fingers)
> 
> Let us know at "The Bad Boys of Case Modding Clubhouse" if we can help you out with your mad experiments by sending materials....
> http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=56727



Can I join on your clubhouse bro?im still a noob on case modding tough


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## newtekie1 (Jun 27, 2009)

KH0UJ said:


> I dont know about the HIGH END PSU`s bro, but im sure on the El Cheapo PSU`s
> I think they got one, but on my other thread newteckie1 is mentioning the reviews of one of the undesputed top brands, he says they all drop, I dont know, never reverse engineered high end PSU`s before, only the cheap ones



Correct, there is always a little bit of fluctuation, even in the best power supplies.  Some fluctuate very little, some more.  Even some of the best fluctuate a .1v or more.

All computer hardware is designed to handle these fluctuations and operate with them.


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## DreamSeller (Jun 28, 2009)

any pics available with the final work ? 
or its not finished yet ?


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## mav2000 (Jun 29, 2009)

Good show, this is a very resourceful project though i have no clue about most of what you have done, but the results seem fantastic.


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## Cuzza (Jun 29, 2009)

I am pretty confused by all this. Could you please draw a circuit diagram to explain what's going on?


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## KH0UJ (Jun 30, 2009)

Cuzza said:


> I am pretty confused by all this. Could you please draw a circuit diagram to explain what's going on?



OK I will draw the block diagram after 5:00pm, Its just basically a parallel PSU, PSU 1 and PSU 2`s 12 Volt rails are connected together plus the crowbar circuits to compensate the voltage drop when the PSU`s on a high ampere load, instead of dropping, the tendency of the high ampere load will push the crowbar to the primary oscillator to step-up the frequency of the primary windings, the result is the more it experiences high amp load, it steps up the secondary windings (+12V) just a little bit, so instead of dropping to 11.9V @ 50 amps, the result will be 12.13V @ 50 amp load, the more I load the 12 volt line the more it steps up.


Just like a crowbar, the more you push down on a certain object, the more it rises up
actually i dont really know how to call it bro, im just guessing whats the name of the circuit ived just made


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## MKmods (Jun 30, 2009)

KH0UJ said:


> Can I join on your clubhouse bro?im still a noob on case modding tough



Absolutely.. stop by and look at some of the stuff we have done. Its fun to hang out and make friends with people with many different ideas.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jun 30, 2009)

Nice mod, glad to see someone use those PSU's. I swear by them, for the price they are amazing, I've had nothing but good results from them, HEC is A+ in my book.


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