# Ryzen 3000, FCLK Issue



## Voltaj .45 ACP (Feb 21, 2020)

for starters: ram controller in amd cpu's in the core but in 3000 series it's in IO not core.FCLK or infinity fabric is the bridge between IO and core.you have to set this settings 1:1 for example if you're set 3600 ram you'll set 1800 FCLK.but it's 1/2?no it's 1:1 because DDR means double data rate and 3600 isn't 3600 it's 1800.

set 3600 ram set 1800 FCLK, set 3733 ram set 1866 FCLK right?no problem.3000 series stable FCLK around 1800's.i can set 1900 FCLK but i have to voltage some weird named setting.if you're give much voltage pcie 4.0 m2's will affect and i have pcie 4.0 m2 so voltage is not an option.

my problem is my new gskill 4400 mhz kit can make 4400 but if i set auto FCLK it will be 1100 mhz.if i set manual 1800 mhz FCLK pc won't open.if you're using 1100 mhz FCLK with 4400 it's like 3600 mhz ram.

where is the problem mb's bios? or mb's ram limitiation(asus strix-e x570 4400 mhz support)? or ryzen 3000 limitation?thanks..


----------



## cucker tarlson (Feb 21, 2020)

shoot for 3800 and fclk at 1900mhz,that's all you can achieve with 3000 now if you're lucky.Tigthen the timings.


----------



## Voltaj .45 ACP (Feb 21, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> shoot for 3800 and fclk at 1900mhz,that's all you can achieve with 3000 now if you're lucky.Tigthen the timings.


first of all thank you but i've already tried 3800/1900 cl14 but like i said i have to set 1.1v some weird named settings about Infinity fabric.working fine but lower scores than 3733/1866 cl14.idk this cpu or mb doesn't like anything but 3733/1866.
what difference?4400 cl19 2t, 101 fps average in gta5 2k night and 104 fps 3733 cl14 1t.in 2k ram is not important much.4400 is 1.4v but 3733 is 1.45v and i don't like unnecessary voltage.if i can make IF 1800 with 4400 i'm sure it wil be better than 3733 cl14.


----------



## Chomiq (Feb 21, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> shoot for 3800 and fclk at 1900mhz,that's all you can achieve with 3000 now if you're lucky.Tigthen the timings.


The odds are that his 3700x won't post on 3800 even with extra loose timings. Not to mention that you're entering the area of diminishing returns, since putting strain on imc will result in worse cpu performance due to thermals.
To OP: drop it to 3600/1800 cl14 with same timings as 3733. You should be able to lower voltage at this point.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Feb 21, 2020)

Chomiq said:


> The odds are that his 3700x won't post on 3800 even with extra loose timings. Not to mention that you're entering the area of diminishing returns, since putting strain on imc will result in worse cpu performance due to thermals.
> To OP: drop it to 3600/1800 cl14 with same timings as 3733. You should be able to lower voltage at this point.


Sorry,I am no expert on ryzen.


----------



## Chomiq (Feb 21, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> Sorry,I am no expert on ryzen.


No worries, he could probably achieve it on 3800x since they're better binned.


----------



## tabascosauz (Feb 21, 2020)

Generally, reports confirm that unsynced IF is never really going to be worth it. AMD provides the theoretical ability to hit high 4500+ MT/s records on Ryzen 3000 just like Intel platforms by desyncing IF, but only on Intel platforms will you actually get the performance to back up the raw bandwidth those high freqs achieve. Even at 4400MT/s, you aren't going to recoup your losses in _latency_. You can have the best Royal kit with tight 4000+ timings, but the moment IF moves to anything but 1:1, you get knocked down like everyone else with instant 75-80ns latency. And Ryzen 3000 already takes a hit in latency over already high Ryzen on account of its design, even at 1:1, so...

Heck, I think general speculation is that you need to go quite a bit higher than 4200-4400MT/s on Ryzen before latency starts coming down again and raw bandwidth can take over, to the point where you theoretically might take the lead over a tight 3733 or 3800 again. Think close to 5000MT/s. And that's difficult territory even on Intel, without spending a lot of time and money in selecting the right kits.

I'm guessing you already have decent B-die, 1.45v isn't an issue, just keep cool air flowing over it for stability under heavy mem load. As for unsyncing IF, some tests run it at 2:1 (ie. 1100 for 4400) but others keep it high at 1800-1900. I don't remember what's at play here, I think buildzoid might have explained optimal unsynced IF freq in a past video. But anyways, a stable and tweaked 3733/14 profile is a good place to be.

For running IF that isn't strictly 1:1 or 2:1, it probably depends on your BIOS being written well enough to support it. Some vendors are notorious for having half-assed BIOSes with redundant, useless or broken settings. If you can get an answer from buildzoid on the existence of a magical unsynced IF for optimal 4400 performance, that would be great, but remember that it's a 3700X and barely a rung above the 3600 in binning; don't be bummed if it can't do 1:1 1900 or whatever it might be.

Leave the extreme OCs to the 3900X and 3950X users; at least they have better binned silicon, slightly lower latency, and double the write bandwidth to push those records.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Feb 21, 2020)

There's a significant benefit from using dual rank memory,so 4 bdie sticks running 3600 with synced IF will almost certainly outperform single rank with unsynced IF event if you can get 4.5ghz stable


----------



## Voltaj .45 ACP (Feb 21, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> Sorry,I am no expert on ryzen.


no worries i don't speak english very well but here we are.pc enthusiasts has no boundaries.

@*tabascosauz*

man you're killing me.you're saying something straight but i can't understand.you're saying take this bag and go to school but Turkish is reverse and all i hear "go to school and hey you forget the bag." hehe kidding i understand.this kit is not for 3700x it's for 4000 series because i hope there is no IO FCLK bs in 4000 series.

@*Chomiq*

if mb supports 4400 then i demand from asus 4400 so i don't use 3600 my old adata kit was 3600 but this kit more quality? or binned you said because adata can make 4200 cl16 with 1.5v but never done 4400mhz.


----------



## Chomiq (Feb 21, 2020)

The odds are that your 3700x won't be able to run with 1900 FCKL. That's what I mean by binning. Some people can't even pull off 1900 on a 3950x.

Just because your memory is on QVL it doesn't mean that it will run on every setting. It's up to you to troubleshoot.


----------



## Zach_01 (Feb 21, 2020)

Watch this for starters


----------



## sneekypeet (Feb 21, 2020)

Let me cover some glaring holes in this thread.

5000MHz memory exists... https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/VENGEANCE-LPX/p/CMK16GX4M2Z5000C18
Said memory will not hit the rated speeds with a higher binned CPU like the 3900X and 3950X, it requires a chip with a single chiplet like the 3600X.

Second, most of the issues with people not hitting 1800 IF is their issue, not that of the CPU.

IF at half the memory speed certainly puts a latency hit in AIDA64, but that does not mean that performance suffers due to that reason alone. I have tested many kits faster than 3600MHz and they do show performance gains over those where the IF was half that of the RAM. Lowest latency in AIDA does not mean the best performance across all testing, but it may in one or two benches.

I do agree that there is a point of diminishing returns,but I am also a huge proponent of users trying things out rather than reading all of the guides as gospel.

In my testing, on my 3900X, I topped out the IMC at near 4300MHz with 1800IF. I am not super shocked at the OPs issues, and would suggest tinkering and testing to see if, say, 4000MHz 1800IF with lower timings is a good place to start.


----------



## Zach_01 (Feb 21, 2020)

Voltaj .45 ACP said:


> for starters: ram controller in amd cpu's in the core but in 3000 series it's in IO not core.FCLK or infinity fabric is the bridge between IO and core.you have to set this settings 1:1 for example if you're set 3600 ram you'll set 1800 FCLK.but it's 1/2?no it's 1:1 because DDR means double data rate and 3600 isn't 3600 it's 1800.
> 
> set 3600 ram set 1800 FCLK, set 3733 ram set 1866 FCLK right?no problem.3000 series stable FCLK around 1800's.i can set 1900 FCLK but i have to voltage some weird named setting.if you're give much voltage pcie 4.0 m2's will affect and i have pcie 4.0 m2 so voltage is not an option.
> 
> ...





Zach_01 said:


> Watch this for starters



Running MEMCLK and UCLK in a-sync mode works only in very few cases. You will have to find it yourself if there is any benefit.
Specifically Threadripper only will real benefit from it and with high speed memory (like 4400).
AM4 CPUs best kept in 3733~3800 for sync MEMCLK:UCLK:FCLK.
High bandwidth will not benefit much general performance as 3000series have large cache. From the other hand low latency will, and that is achieved better with sync mode.

Look closely the numbers...


----------



## sneekypeet (Feb 21, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> AM4 CPUs best kept in 3733~3800 for sync MEMCLK:UCLK:FCLK.



Yet in your second video, and I only watched for a few minutes, he immediately claims that 3200MHz with tight timings and 1800 FLCK gave the best performance in his chart. Just sayin


----------



## cucker tarlson (Feb 21, 2020)

sneekypeet said:


> Yet in your second video, and I only watched for a few minutes, he immediately claims that 3200MHz with tight timings and 1800 FLCK gave the best performance in his chart. Just sayin


Can you set 1800 IF for 3200 ram ?


----------



## sneekypeet (Feb 21, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> Can you set 1800 IF for 3200 ram ?



Second link above, dude got right into saying low timing 3200 RAM and IF1800 worked best. I run 1800IF with almost anything I test.

IF can be set independently from RAM in any situation.


----------



## Voltaj .45 ACP (Feb 21, 2020)

let me show some pictures for what my problem

4400 cl19 and 1800 fclk on bios but...






3733 cl14 and 1866 fclk is no problem





and 3800 cl14 and 1900 fclk on bios


----------



## sneekypeet (Feb 21, 2020)

Voltaj .45 ACP said:


> let me show some pictures for what my problem
> 
> 4400 cl19 and 1800 fclk on bios but...
> 
> ...



Do these images also represent what the BIOS shows is going on when you set these versions of ways of running that kit? Just trying to rule out a software misread.


----------



## Drone69 (Feb 21, 2020)

When memory speed is over 3733Mhz the ratio isn`t 1:1 any more.


----------



## Voltaj .45 ACP (Feb 21, 2020)

sneekypeet said:


> Do these images also represent what the BIOS shows is going on when you set these versions of ways of running that kit? Just trying to rule out a software misread.


----------



## sneekypeet (Feb 21, 2020)

Looking back at screenshots, mine seems to be doing the same. IF stays where I set it, but once I break 3600MHz my NB drops like yours is showing.


----------



## Drone69 (Feb 21, 2020)

Both the CPU-Z images are showing the right thing. the 1st one is 1:1 because the memory is running at 3733Mhz. The second image the ratio 0.5:1 because the memory is running faster than 3733Mhz. It`s how it`s supposed to work. 

this link has more deatails

https://premiumbuilds.com/ram/best-ram-for-ryzen-3000/


----------



## sneekypeet (Feb 21, 2020)

Drone69 said:


> It`s how it`s supposed to work.



Performance did not seem affected by its change, at least not by any drastic measures, so I never looked into it further.


----------



## Zach_01 (Feb 21, 2020)

sneekypeet said:


> Second link above, dude got right into saying low timing 3200 RAM and IF1800 worked best. I run 1800IF with almost anything I test.
> 
> IF can be set independently from RAM in any situation.





sneekypeet said:


> Yet in your second video, and I only watched for a few minutes, he immediately claims that 3200MHz with tight timings and 1800 FLCK gave the best performance in his chart. Just sayin


You should see all 4 videos, the whole thing of each and then understand what is the memory subsystem nature of Ryzen 3000. By watching a glimpse of 1 video, and listen only a few words of it, and draw conlusions or anything else is not the optimal way. There is a specific reason I posted those videos. If you dont want to listen to them as info, its ok by me.



Drone69 said:


> When memory speed is over 3733Mhz the ratio isn`t 1:1 any more.


False...
The 1:1 ratio is kept up to 3800MT/s DRAM and 1900MHz UCLK:FCLK


----------



## sneekypeet (Feb 21, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> You should see all 4 videos, the whole thing of each and then understand what is the memory subsystem nature of Ryzen 3000. By watching a glimpse of 1 video, and listen only a few words of it, and draw conlusions or anything else is not the optimal way. There is a specific reason I posted those videos. If you dont want to listen to them as info, its ok by me.



Did not have well over an hour to look, but on first glance, this information has only to do with AIDA64 correct? Bandwidth and latency?


----------



## Zach_01 (Feb 21, 2020)

sneekypeet said:


> Did not have well over an hour to look, but on first glance, this information has only to do with AIDA64 correct? Bandwidth and latency?


Mainly but not just it...

Those vids and especially the first one...










...can help anyone understand what short of settings can one make with *DRAM*(MEMCLK), *U*nified*M*em*C*ontroller(UCLK), *I*nfinity*F*abric(FCLK) speeds.
InfinityFabric can work independedly and decoupled from the other 2.
DRAM and UMC can work either in 1:1 or 2:1 ratio.

So you have 3 subsystems
MEMCLK (memory)
UCLK (controller)
FCLK (IF)

The best scenario is to work all 3 of them in 1:1:1 ratio. Unfortunately this works only up to 1900MHz. (DRAM=3800MT/s=MEMCLK=1900MHz, UCLK=1900MHz, FCLK=1900MHz). Not all boards and CPUs can do that tho.

Then if you have real high speed memory, like 4400MT/s (2200MHz real speed) and want to run it up there, then best you can do is to run:

FCLK = decoupled and highest possible (1833, 1866, 1900)
passing 1900MHz real DRAM speed (MEMCLK) will auto adjust UCLK to 2:1 ratio.
So if you ran MEMCLK = 2200MHz (4400MT/s) the UCLK will run = 1100MHz and thats it. Thats the best you can do.

See below an example of DRAM to 4000MT/s (MEMCLK=2000MHz), UCLK(2:1mode)=1000MHz, and IF(FCLK)=1900MHz
Mind not the timings, this only to demostrate speeds:






Here is another one with 4200MT/s (MEMCLK=2100MHz), UCLK=1050MHz), IF(FCLK=1900MHz)






---------------------------------------------------------------------------

All these subsystems have their own voltages that can be adjusted for attempting stability in high speeds.

Everybody knows the DRAM voltage, nothing to say here...

UCLK and IF voltages are derived from SoC voltage, otherwise the I/O chiplet voltage.
So UCLK and IF voltages cannot be above or equal to SoC voltage. Only lower.

By default
CPU SoC voltage on 3000 is 1.05~1.08V
UCLK voltage (cLDO VDDP) and InfinityFabric voltage (cLDO VDDG) is well below 1.0V.
IF voltage, cLDO VDDG in some boards and after latest 1.0.0.4B AGESA is devided into 2 sections.
1. cLDO VDDG IOD (is the Infinity Fabric voltage for the I/O Die or SoC IF part)
2. cLDO VDDG CCD (is the Infinity Fabric voltage for the cores IF part, inbetween the CCX/CCDs connection)
These can be found in "AMD CBS" section of UEFI and under "XFR Enhancement", or in "AMD Overclocking" section and under SOC, VDDP/VDDG voltage.

SoC has a safe voltage level up ot 1.25V (although past 1.15V I doubt anyone will see any benefit)
cLDO VDDP/VDDG must be at least 50mV below SoC voltage, (although past 1.05V I doubt anyone can see any benefit)

Keep in mind that raising SoC, and cLDOs voltages and speeds (UCLK/FCLK) will increase power consumption of I/O Die by a few Watts that you will lose from overall CPU package power draw (PPT) when CPU is auto boosting and with stock PBO settings. You may also see some cores (middle/low speed ones) loose about 25MHz of single or low thread boost. All core boosting will be affected also, but not so much of the actual highest speed, but for the sustainability of it.


----------



## Voltaj .45 ACP (Feb 22, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> You should see all 4 videos, the whole thing of each and then understand what is the memory subsystem nature of Ryzen 3000. By watching a glimpse of 1 video, and listen only a few words of it, and draw conlusions or anything else is not the optimal way. There is a specific reason I posted those videos. If you dont want to listen to them as info, its ok by me.
> 
> 
> False...
> ...






that's what i've talked about! 3733/1866 cl16 better than anything.no tweaking not cpu oc.this cpus can't handle above 1866 because of that i've said i'm waiting 4000 series.


----------



## Zach_01 (Feb 22, 2020)

Voltaj .45 ACP said:


> View attachment 145595
> 
> that's what i've talked about! 3733/1866 cl16 better than anything.no tweaking not cpu oc.this cpus can't handle above 1866 because of that i've said i'm waiting 4000 series.


And it’s sure it won’t do 1900MHz?
How is your voltages?
A RyzenMaster screenshot will do...


----------



## tabascosauz (Feb 22, 2020)

sneekypeet said:


> Did not have well over an hour to look, but on first glance, this information has only to do with AIDA64 correct? Bandwidth and latency?



1:1:1 UCLK:FCLK:MCLK like most people run makes things easy - I don't think we're all on the same page here. From what I can tell, you are indeed correct; FCLK (IF) can be whatever you want it to be, within reason, which is the point of the Matisse's dividers no longer requiring the three to be hand-in-hand. UCLK (mem controller) doesn't appear to be so flexible. If the three are synced, then UCLK=FCLK=MCLK, but at anything other than 1:1, UCLK is stuck in a 1:2 relationship with MCLK, and cannot be whatever you want it to be, unlike FCLK. When not at 1:1:1, there is no rule that the memory controller must be synced with IF.

Hence what I was saying, in one of BZ's videos (as well as another review elsewhere entailing kits from 2400 to 4200MT/s, GN I think), that if you find the "perfect" unsynced FCLK clock such as 1800 for 3200MT/s or 1900 for 4200MT/s, then running unsynced isn't all so end-of-the-world doom and gloom as people make it out to be.

But at the end of the day, very few people try it because performance differs noticeably even from board to board, so documentation is scarce. That, and the few reviews that exist don't seem to agree on what kind of RAM speed you actually need to overcome that inherent ~8ns handicap of 1:2, because testing is far from standardized. And I mean, tight 3733 1:1 and 3800 1:1 also exist, so...

The gamersnexus test I mentioned with all the different kits had 3800/16 1:1 and 4200/16 FCLK 1900 at the top of the list in pretty much all the tests, but 4200 barely edged out 3800 1:1 in just one instance, I think. Since both of those leading presets require 1900 IF, which we know OP can't do on this chip, it sounds like there's not too much point in pushing past 3733.


----------



## Zach_01 (Feb 22, 2020)

If you can’t run 1900MHz 1:1:1 then 1866 is the next best thing.
And if you can do it with lowest possible timings, the better. tRFC is also a significant setting.

So past 1900MHz (3800) you will need 5000+ DRAM kit in order to be able to work UCLK high enough to compensate for the 2:1 ratio.

Threadripper, with quad channel is a different story...


----------



## Voltaj .45 ACP (Feb 23, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> And it’s sure it won’t do 1900MHz?
> How is your voltages?
> A RyzenMaster screenshot will do...



yeah it will be 1900 mhz fclk but i have to voltage 1.1 on some vdd setting about IF and it's lower scores than 1866.maybe pushed with voltage don't gave best results because uclk being 1:2 and you know the rest.









ac odyssey 2k very high.bottom left to right: uclk, cpu fans, case fan, x570 chipset and rams.about 40 min.3733/1866 cl16 1.4v but now i'm trying 1.39v


----------



## sneekypeet (Feb 23, 2020)

I see a lot trying to educate me on the relationships. Not so much my point. You all say 1 to 1 to 1 gets me the best latency in aida64, which is possible and likely. My point is, in my testing, across my 27 recorded scores in my records for all kits I test, that I see better bandwidth and bench results when they are not linked sometimes. Not always the rule, but imho the best results in aida64 do not translate across the board at all times.

I guess my issue is I am too old school. I try everything first, then make a decision.


----------



## Zach_01 (Feb 23, 2020)

Voltaj .45 ACP said:


> yeah it will be 1900 mhz fclk but i have to voltage 1.1 on some vdd setting about IF and it's lower scores than 1866.maybe pushed with voltage don't gave best results because uclk being 1:2 and you know the rest.
> 
> ac odyssey 2k very high.bottom left to right: uclk, cpu fans, case fan, x570 chipset and rams.about 40 min.3733/1866 cl16 1.4v but now i'm trying 1.39v


Look again post #24. You can run all of them on 1900MHz. You just have to set in UEFI the
MEMCLK==UCLK, while you have set FCLK to 1900MHz, and memory multi to x38.
Look around in you BIOS and you will find it the MEMCLK==UCLK.
And clearly you are not familiar with voltages in there as you don’t even know what you changing and what for...

You should know what is what. I’m going to repeat my previous writings and if you want to understand what you can do to improve stability pay attention to every sentence.

_“UCLK and IF voltages are derived from SoC voltage, otherwise the I/O chiplet voltage.
So UCLK and IF voltages cannot be above or equal to SoC voltage. Only lower.

By default
CPU SoC voltage on 3000 is 1.05~1.08V
UCLK voltage (cLDO VDDP) and InfinityFabric voltage (cLDO VDDG) is well below 1.0V.
IF voltage, cLDO VDDG in some boards and after latest 1.0.0.4B AGESA is devided into 2 sections.
1. cLDO VDDG IOD (is the Infinity Fabric voltage for the I/O Die or SoC IF part)
2. cLDO VDDG CCD (is the Infinity Fabric voltage for the cores IF part, inbetween the CCX/CCDs connection)
These can be found in "AMD CBS" section of UEFI and under "XFR Enhancement", or in "AMD Overclocking" section and under SOC, VDDP/VDDG voltage.

SoC has a safe voltage level up ot 1.25V (although past 1.15V I doubt anyone will see any benefit)
cLDO VDDP/VDDG must be at least 50mV below SoC voltage, (although past 1.05V I doubt anyone can see any benefit)”_

So before you raise cLDO VDDP(UCLK) or cLDO VDDG(IF) to 1.1V you should first raise SoC voltage to 1.15V at least. Otherwise it is pointless to just raise VDDG or VDDP (cLDO). And after you do raise SoC to any voltage you should confirm it in windows with RyzenMaster or HWiNFO64 that has actually raised to what you want, before you touch any voltage of UCLK or IF. Because most boards need SoC voltage LLC to keep it where you want.

What short of ICs you Ram has? If they are Samsung B-die there is no problem running them on 1.45V or even 1.5V with a good amount of air upon them.


sneekypeet said:


> I see a lot trying to educate me on the relationships. Not so much my point. You all say 1 to 1 to 1 gets me the best latency in aida64, which is possible and likely. My point is, in my testing, across my 27 recorded scores in my records for all kits I test, that I see better bandwidth and bench results when they are not linked sometimes. Not always the rule, but imho the best results in aida64 do not translate across the board at all times.
> 
> I guess my issue is I am too old school. I try everything first, then make a decision.


Please don’t go there... nobody said you have any issue.
While I personally said and meant that 1:1:1 is the ideal and it would be nice to keep that all the way up to 2200MHz if not more, we all know that you can’t, and I also said what someone can do to if likes/wants to run DRAM 4400. And show it...
Of course I didn’t bench when FCLK is decoupled from the other 2, while having them on 2:1 ratio.
The only thing I run when I showcase above the 4200 DRAM speed and the 2100:1050:1900 (MEMCLK:UCLK:FCLK) was the AIDA64 benchmark and the bandwidth was lower (2-3GB/s) and latency +10ns from what I get with 1866:1866:1866.
I wish I had way better Ram to be able to run something like (4400) 2200:1100:1900 (MEMCLK:UCLK:FCLK) with decent timings.

If any body can demonstrate for all to see with different types of benchmarking like AIDA, gaming, editing or rendering, the:

1866:1866:1866 vs 2200:1100:1900
or
1900:1900:1900 vs 2200:1100:1900

...I’m really interested to see something like that.


----------



## sneekypeet (Feb 23, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Look again post #24. You can run all of them on 1900MHz. You just have to set in UEFI the
> MEMCLK==UCLK, while you have set FCLK to 1900MHz, and memory multi to x38.
> Look around in you BIOS and you will find it the MEMCLK==UCLK.
> And clearly you are not familiar with voltages in there as you don’t even know what you changing and what for...
> ...



All i have currently is an Xcel spread sheet of my AMD testing. Not the easiest to share 

As to the last bits, try it. Maybe not at those specific numbers, but my point is play around, you might be surprised.


----------



## Zach_01 (Feb 23, 2020)

sneekypeet said:


> All i have currently is an Xcel spread sheet of my AMD testing. Not the easiest to share


Plain numbers with every setting on each result will do for me personally. Dont really need visual/screenshot proof if thats the case.


----------



## Lindatje (Feb 23, 2020)

You cannot set IF higher then your DRAM clock.

for 3200MHz DRAM set the IF on 1600 or lower, for 3600MHz the IF is 1800 ect.


----------



## sneekypeet (Feb 23, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Plain numbers with every setting on each result will do for me personally. Dont really need visual/screenshot proof if thats the case.



I'm not trying to avoid the challenge, just at this exact point in time, I cannot run benches and change things, I'm tied up in work related things.
If I remember this at the beginning of the month, we can take this to PMs and pick some sticks to test, use both of our heads together, and we can post results of it in this thread then.

@Lindatje maybe with your motherboard that is a thing, but all sticks I have tested on AMD will run with 1800 IF. Let me see if I can get an image to explain what I mean.

3200MHz memory 1800 IF.


----------



## Zach_01 (Feb 24, 2020)

Sure why not...
And it’s not going to be a challenge in between opinions. I’m always looking for this kind of education.

I’m too in the middle of something right now regarding PBO settings and testing and it will take me several days to finish, wanting to do a review kind of thread/topic.



Lindatje said:


> You cannot set IF higher then your DRAM clock.
> 
> for 3200MHz DRAM set the IF on 1600 or lower, for 3600MHz the IF is 1800 ect.


Of course you can... You can decouple FCLK from DRAM and run it whatever you like, lower or higher. It’s the Memory and the Controller that you can’t run differently other than 1:1 or 2:1 depending the speed.


----------



## Voltaj .45 ACP (Feb 24, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Look again post #24. You can run all of them on 1900MHz. You just have to set in UEFI the
> MEMCLK==UCLK, while you have set FCLK to 1900MHz, and memory multi to x38.
> Look around in you BIOS and you will find it the MEMCLK==UCLK.
> And clearly you are not familiar with voltages in there as you don’t even know what you changing and what for...
> ...






hehe trust me i've voltage everywhere but not in amd overclocking.. maybe i'm looking wrong place.will try ASAP thank you.


----------



## Zach_01 (Feb 24, 2020)

Voltaj .45 ACP said:


> View attachment 145825
> 
> hehe trust me i've voltage everywhere but not in amd overclocking.. maybe i'm looking wrong place.will try ASAP thank you.
> 
> View attachment 145826


Its B-die then...
If I had your CPU and DRAM, now that I know some stuff about 3000 I would start by disabling XMP
run DRAM multi X38, manual CL16-16-16-16-32-48, tRFC: 358, tRFC2: 266, tRFC4: 164 (all else t auto) DRAM voltage 1.45V
FCLK 1900MHz, MEMCLK==UCLK
CPU SoC voltage auto, with CPU SoC LLC one level before max.
cLDO VDDG: 1025mV
cLDO VDDP: 1000mV


----------



## Voltaj .45 ACP (Feb 24, 2020)

i think my bios is a little different.i've found this setting in amd oc and interesting.this was disabled but setting enabled not change a bit.





and this is not feel right to me:









1050 what's that?what kind of voltage is this?i didn't set but i've tried 1.15 soc and you can see in the second picture.maybe my cpu is not quality enough.i've been overclocking since 1996 and if this is hard like this then it not gonna happen because i have force i didn't have to second try in oc most of the time but this time i gave up.i need 4000 series stupid IO thing.thank you for your help i appreciated.


----------



## Zach_01 (Feb 24, 2020)

Last screenshot *"VDDP Voltage Control"* is not for UCLK. its something else DRAM related. Leave it auto.

*"CLDO VDDP voltage" *is for UCLK and the 1050 is in mV (miliVolts) 1050mV = 1.05V

*EDIT:*
I forget to mention the 99.8MHz BCLK can be an equal 100 if you find and disable spread spectrum


----------



## Voltaj .45 ACP (Feb 25, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Last screenshot *"VDDP Voltage Control"* is not for UCLK. its something else DRAM related. Leave it auto.
> 
> *"CLDO VDDP voltage" *is for UCLK and the 1050 is in mV (miliVolts) 1050mV = 1.05V
> 
> ...


 from reddit

ckurobac

AMD 3700X+Vega6412 points·5 months ago

No spread spectrum settings on my X570 Strix-E，so I paid $300 for a low end motherboard，good job asus



__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/czbai7

idk what's for but you asked for it:


----------



## Zach_01 (Feb 25, 2020)

Strix X570-E is no low end board. Just Asus messed up somethings with some boards, me thinks...
Also your board does not report VRM temps because they say that they couldn’t make the algorithm work properly and report an accurate value, so they block it. It’s a shame, although your board has quiet enough VRM pwr and efficiency that can handle 3950X without VRM cooling.
Asus have more X570 boards than any other vendor with strange feature combinations, making some boards (through the entire X570 line) irrelevant. Sorry to say, but your board is one of them.

The more time goes by, the more I think the Aorus X570 line may be the best overall.
The AorusPro X570 I have is a 230$ board right now and has things that Strix-E does not. The only thing missing is the debug code display, but I prefer not having it instead other.



Voltaj .45 ACP said:


> from reddit
> 
> ckurobac
> 
> ...


Why 1.363V for SoC voltage? That is too much and could degrade I/O die in the long term.
Didn’t you try 1900:1900:1900?


----------



## Voltaj .45 ACP (Feb 26, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Strix X570-E is no low end board. Just Asus messed up somethings with some boards, me thinks...
> Also your board does not report VRM temps because they say that they couldn’t make the algorithm work properly and report an accurate value, so they block it. It’s a shame, although your board has quiet enough VRM pwr and efficiency that can handle 3950X without VRM cooling.
> Asus have more X570 boards than any other vendor with strange feature combinations, making some boards (through the entire X570 line) irrelevant. Sorry to say, but your board is one of them.
> 
> ...


of course not low end but they wanna be spoiled top model(formula?) users in somehow.stupid asus.

no oc no tweak no cheat.stock+pbo enabled


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Feb 26, 2020)

Voltaj .45 ACP said:


> of course not low end but they wanna be spoiled top model(formula?) users in somehow.stupid asus.
> 
> no oc no tweak no cheat.stock+pbo enabled





The Strix E is a pretty good board its just priced stupidly at its normal 330 price its way too close to the Hero.  If priced at 300 usd or less it's a pretty good option and I would probably opt for it over the other similar priced boards if that were the case. 

in your ryzen master screenshot your SOC Voltage seems stupidly high it should be 1.2v or less afaik.


----------



## Zach_01 (Feb 26, 2020)

oxrufiioxo said:


> in your ryzen master screenshot your SOC Voltage seems stupidly high it should be 1.2v or less afaik.


Yes yes, thanks for mention it too... I already did but seems that it got bypassed.

It should be 1.05~1.08V when stock and 1.1~1.15V when DRAM/UC/IF OC. More than this its just making SoC power hungry and could stealing boost headroom from Cores (PPT). And of course could degrade SoC rather quickly...


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Feb 26, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Yes yes, thanks for mention it too... I already did but seems that it got bypassed.
> 
> It should be 1.05~1.08V when stock and 1.1~1.15V when DRAM/UC/IF OC. More than this its just making SoC power hungry and stealing boost headroom from Cores (PPT). And of course could degrade SOC rather quickly...




That's the only thing I hate about Asus boards they run the memory voltages way too high even on Intel systems..... Makes no sense to me. Also they can be priced shitty but they sure do look good typically


----------



## pcwolf (Feb 26, 2020)

This is a bookmark  I am the noob completely swamped trying to keep up.
You folks are so conversant, flinging acronyms and synonyms and aliases around, no doubt in my mind you can sling a pork chop past a starving dog. 

*SO ...*

I can set fCLK and uCLK directly with UEFI options (mostly by setting fCLK and then coupling)

*BUT ...*

There is NO direct setting of the mCLK available
I must set it INDIRECTLY with "MEMCLK==UCLK" in UEFI

Have I got that right?

I will deal with voltages later, after I got this timing relationship in my head.


----------



## Zach_01 (Feb 27, 2020)

pcwolf said:


> This is a bookmark  I am the noob completely swamped trying to keep up.
> You folks are so conversant, flinging acronyms and synonyms and aliases around, no doubt in my mind you can sling a pork chop past a starving dog.
> 
> *SO ...*
> ...


First must know what is all those sub-parts of the Ryzen 3000 CPU
These CPUs have a unique layout that separates them from every other CPU out there. Today's (all)CPUs are called also a SoC (system on chip) or a part of them, especially the smartphones CPUs. Because its not all computation cores. They have integrated memory controller. They have direct links with PCI-E slots, m.2 NVMe/SATA drives, USB ports... and other subsystems that once (15~20y ago) was integrated strictly to board chipsets (north/south bridge). A lot of them today exist on the CPU die it self making comm with CPU cores faster.
These parts of CPU called I/O (input/Output) or SoC.

Ryzen 2000

The cores inside CCXs comm with the rest of the chip (I/O) with InfinityFabric.

AMD, on Ryzen 3000 took all those subsystems and placed them on a separate die and now we have dies (or chiplets) with cores only (CCX0+1 = CCD) and an I/O Die placed in the same package.

This is the 8core chiplet containing 2xCCX (CoreCompleX) forming a CCD (CoreComplexDie)


This is the I/O die or SoC


			https://forum.level1techs.com/uploads/default/original/3X/0/5/05587a80460d444d59dc7d0a41507b3f9905b03f.jpeg
		


This is the layout of the entire system


And this is the CPU package


The above is your CPU containing 2x8core chiplets(CCDs) and the I/O. The I/O (SoC) die contains the UMC (Unified Memory Controller) and its speed called UCLK. The Infinity Fabric is in between I/O and core dies that connects all together and its speed called FCLK.
DDR4 on AM4 is linked to the IO die with 2 separate channels (hence the dual channel function). Each channel is 64bit width. The true speed of RAM is called MEMCLK. When you say DDR4 3600 the 3600 is the effective speed (3600MegaTransfers/s). The true speed of RAM is 1800MHz and we call it 3600 because we have 2 data transfers in every tic (hence DDR=Double Data Rate).
So when you set you DRAM multi to X38 (DDR3800) the MEMCLK is 1900MHz. Set this: MEMCLK==UCLK and you are syncing the RAM with the memory controller. Set FCLK also at 1900MHz and all three parts from RAM to CPU cores are synced and theoretically are maximizing performance. Different/uneven speeds could mean potential stall of data, lower memory bandwidth, and high latency.

DRAM(MEMCLK) --> UMC(UCLK) --> IF(FCLK) --> Cores
--------1900 -----------> 1900 -------> 1900 ---> CoreSpeed (3200~4700MHz)

Unfortunately the UMC and IF are the big bottlenecks in the line of Data transfer to Cores. Depending on the CPU mostly and the board the UMC and the IF can run maxed out from 1733MHz to 1900MHz.
Up until 1900 can all three parts work on the same speed. UMC can work in 2 modes only, with DRAM. Either 1:1 or 2:1. Past 1900 for RAM the UMC drops to 2:1. The IF can work independently.
Go for DDR4200 (MEMCLK 2100) and you have this:

DRAM(MEMCLK) --> UMC(UCLK) --> IF(FCLK) --> Cores
--------2100 -----------> 1050 -------> 1900 ---> CoreSpeed (3200~4700MHz)

Each one of those sub-parts have their own voltage
1. DDR: DRAM voltage
2. I/O or SoC: CPU SOC voltage
the next two voltages are derived from SoC voltage and cannot be set above or equal to it, but at least 50mV (0.05V) below.
3. UMC: cLDO VDDP voltage
4. IF: cLDO VDDG voltage


----------



## Voltaj .45 ACP (Feb 27, 2020)

oxrufiioxo said:


> The Strix E is a pretty good board its just priced stupidly at its normal 330 price its way too close to the Hero.  If priced at 300 usd or less it's a pretty good option and I would probably opt for it over the other similar priced boards if that were the case.
> 
> in your ryzen master screenshot your SOC Voltage seems stupidly high it should be 1.2v or less afaik.


 that's manual 1.1v on bios to SOC.stupid ryzen master yay.


----------



## Chomiq (Feb 27, 2020)

Must be something to do with ASUS or RM. On my X570 Elite voltages are shown correctly in RM, while yours and @sneekypeet have 0 or an incorrect value in some.


----------



## sneekypeet (Feb 27, 2020)

Chomiq said:


> Must be something to do with ASUS. On my X570 Elite voltages are shown correctly in RM, while yours and @sneekypeet have 0 or an incorrect value in some.



*shrugs* this is why I do not fall victim to looking at only one software suite for all of the answers.


----------



## Voltaj .45 ACP (Feb 27, 2020)

Chomiq said:


> Must be something to do with ASUS or RM. On my X570 Elite voltages are shown correctly in RM, while yours and @sneekypeet have 0 or an incorrect value in some.


ch8 and strix-e almost same.stupid asus but why is the rum gone? ahem i mean why hwinfo shows correctly?


----------



## Voltaj .45 ACP (Mar 4, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Strix X570-E is no low end board. Just Asus messed up somethings with some boards, me thinks...
> Also your board does not report VRM temps because they say that they couldn’t make the algorithm work properly and report an accurate value, so they block it. It’s a shame, although your board has quiet enough VRM pwr and efficiency that can handle 3950X without VRM cooling.
> Asus have more X570 boards than any other vendor with strange feature combinations, making some boards (through the entire X570 line) irrelevant. Sorry to say, but your board is one of them.
> 
> ...



i wrote to asus customer service and said even giga's low end board's have spread spectrum shame! and they said if there is none then none. i told my 12 years old foxconn mb memory like i've preparing an oc tournament but my nvidia chipset mb was broken and all i have is 780 chipset foxconn and bios is not proper because very cheap model.i wrote to foxconn and asked if they bring some features to bios.one week after they release a new bios and they gave the features.same period i bought a biostar 790g mb and it's superb but 1600 HT link not 1800.i wrote to biostar and they fixed right away.i said to asus there is a difference between being an asshole and proper company and they release new bios yesterday.i didn't try yet but if ss present or not it's a success is it not?

i was second because of mb of course because my rival has nvidia chipset. my cpu 35w sempron 3000 1.6@2.9 ghz and his sempron 3 i guess but higher TDP.at the end we're both using pci cards.mine was 2mb s3 virge.my cpu only sold in brazil and i have no clue my supplier where to find and sell Konya/Türkiye?Konya was nr1 about computer before online shopping.





i was wrong not 2.9. 3.1 maybe?this is that foxconn.wait this is 1.8 ghz this is my other sempron.man i'm too old for this.


----------



## Voltaj .45 ACP (Mar 20, 2020)

Shall we continue now or shall we continue later?






As you know i wanted spread spectrum setting in the bios and asus release new bios 1407 but it hasn't. i've found unlocked 1405 bios but can't install because asus's tools denied.i've used usb flashback method and install it. it's hard you know. when i realize it require fat32 formatted usb3.0 disk but..






disabled spread spectrum and that's it... no voltage to anywhere. dimm voltage is 1.4v and i couldn't set cl14.


----------



## evilhf (Mar 24, 2020)

I come to leave my contribution.
I tried in any way to operate with Infinity Fabric at 1900mhz, but it was not possible.
The Asus X570-E STRIX bios does not have the visible adjustment "SB spread spectrum".
However, with the AMIBCP program, I could verify that it is in bios 1407, but disabled.
I managed to edit the bios, but when saving the modified bios it loses the "capsule signature".
And both ezflash and biosflashback do not accept bios without "capsule subscription".
Looking in a forum I found a modified bios 1405 that had the setting "SB spread spectrum".
However I wanted to use bios 1407.
Here comes the trick!
I installed the modified 1405 bios, deactivated the "sb spread spectrum" in this bios and created a bios profile and saved it to a USB stick.
That done, I installed the latest original 1407 bios and ordered the profile reading saved from the modified 1405 with the sb spread spectrum setting disabled.
To my surprise it worked !!!
Although the spread spectrum adjustment is hidden, it is DISABLED!
I now have 99.98mhz of BCLK.
But my chip really can't work at 1900mhz, I've tried all the possibilities ...
The closest I could get was to catch BCLK at 101mhz, and memories at 3733mhz cl14 with infinity fabric at 1866mhz.
With 101mhz bclk the memory actually works at 3770mhz and the infinity fabric at 1885mhz, very close to the dream 1900mhz !!
I got an excellent latency in this configuration, and I am very happy.
Hope this helps!!


----------



## Zach_01 (Mar 24, 2020)

evilhf said:


> I come to leave my contribution.
> I tried in any way to operate with Infinity Fabric at 1900mhz, but it was not possible.
> The Asus X570-E STRIX bios does not have the visible adjustment "SB spread spectrum".
> However, with the AMIBCP program, I could verify that it is in bios 1407, but disabled.
> ...


You are lucky for 2 reasons
1. the board accepted a profile from different UEFI version
2. the differences between the versions are not essential and didnt cause issues

Gigabyte boards do not accept profiles made with other UEFI versions for safety reasons.
And I assume that you dont have any NVMe drives as these do not like much the PCI-E frequency OC that occur with BCLK increase.

And please fill you system specs in your profile for others (us) to be able to see it.


----------



## evilhf (Mar 24, 2020)

Yes I have!
Samsung M2 NVME 970 evo plus.
Everything absolutely stable.
I've been using this bios setup for 3 weeks.
I have already done memory tests "memtest" and also stress tests like cinebench r20, aida FPU and prime95.
Everything absolutely stable.
This processor is amazing!


----------



## Voltaj .45 ACP (Mar 26, 2020)

hey what did i said are you frigging kidding me?

62.9 with 3900x and cl14? loser!


----------



## evilhf (Mar 26, 2020)

Linda latência!
Parabéns!!
Mas suas taxas de leitura e cópia são um pouco baixas em comparação com o relógio de 1900mhz.
Eu acredito que era para conseguir mais MB / S.
Escreva não diga porque 3700x tem meia banda.


----------



## BossferatuEs (Feb 1, 2021)

Voltaj .45 ACP said:


> for starters: ram controller in amd cpu's in the core but in 3000 series it's in IO not core.FCLK or infinity fabric is the bridge between IO and core.you have to set this settings 1:1 for example if you're set 3600 ram you'll set 1800 FCLK.but it's 1/2?no it's 1:1 because DDR means double data rate and 3600 isn't 3600 it's 1800.
> 
> set 3600 ram set 1800 FCLK, set 3733 ram set 1866 FCLK right?no problem.3000 series stable FCLK around 1800's.i can set 1900 FCLK but i have to voltage some weird named setting.if you're give much voltage pcie 4.0 m2's will affect and i have pcie 4.0 m2 so voltage is not an option.
> 
> ...


I would like to know wich is the BEST config to me having ryzen 5 5600 MSI x570 a- pro and 4xThermaltake thought RAM 4400 c19, reading the post i understand that leaving all in auto seting Up the MHz at 4000 i have 2000:1000:1800 could be this? IF Max speed is 1800 as i read somewhere else or i can get this rams at 1900:1900:1900 with decent timings?


----------



## dont whant to set it"' (Feb 1, 2021)

With 2 stick of ram , probably yes, at least my zen 3 build can do 4000MHz ramclock/(2000MHz 1-1-1) with the latest microcodes. But , as soon as I add the other 2 ram dimms , it does not train the ram above 3600MHz not even 3666MHz after increasing tensions and loosening timings.
Good luck.


----------



## BossferatuEs (Feb 1, 2021)

dont whant to set it' said:


> With 2 stick of ram , probably yes, at least my zen 3 build can do 4000MHz ramclock/(2000MHz 1-1-1) with the latest microcodes. But , as soon as I add the other 2 ram dimms , it does not train the ram above 3600MHz not even 3666MHz after increasing tensions and loosening timings.
> Good luck.


Maybe you have to Feed more those buses and rams with an extra voltage, my pc doesnt allow to run with 4 dimms at 4k MHz if i Didnt put manually the Dim voltage at 1.45


----------



## Zach_01 (Feb 1, 2021)

With Zen2/3 it’s not only DRAM voltage. Installing 4 dimms put more stress to UMC (Unified Mem Controller) that it’s placed inside the I/O Die (Called IOD or SoC) and the interconnection with cores is the Infinity Fabric (IF).
So in order to play with 4 dimms and high speeds you need to try increase the SoC voltage, the UMC (UCLK) voltage and the IF (FCLK) voltage.
It’s complicated and most possible to not be able to run 4 sticks above 1800MHz 1:1:1 no matter what the voltage. Even 1800MHz is questionable...


----------



## BossferatuEs (Feb 1, 2021)

All those parameters i can modify on MB as i already Saw them, but, you suggest to me use only 2 dimms at 4ghz at. 2k:1:1? Safer and faster? What about decreasing bclk to get 19xx with 4 dimms?


----------



## Zach_01 (Feb 1, 2021)

2 sticks are easier to past 1800MHz, yet its not guaranteed either.

No benefit from decreasing BCLK and also this implicates other things too. Other buses with decrease also. Like PCI-E and the CPU speed it self.
I don’t understand how you think it would help.

Also, increasing SoC UCLK FCLK voltages needs care. You don’t just punch greater numbers. There are limits on those voltages to respect and to avoid IOD degradation.


----------



## BossferatuEs (Feb 1, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> 2 sticks are easier to past 1800MHz, yet its not guaranteed either.
> 
> No benefit from decreasing BCLK and also this implicates other things too. Other buses with decrease also. Like PCI-E and the CPU speed it self.
> I don’t understand how you think it would help.
> ...


Maybe is something about the resistance  values of each dimm determinated in ohms, should inmodify them in order to get better voltage in each dimm?


----------



## thesmokingman (Feb 1, 2021)

What's the issue with the Strix-E that it doesn't have spread spectrum? Did those who say this look in the right place??


----------

