# Are VPN services need or a rip-off?



## Mighty-Lu-Bu (Sep 19, 2018)

Is a VPN ever needed?

Why would I want a VPN?


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## R0H1T (Sep 19, 2018)

Mighty-Lu-Bu said:


> Is a *VPN ever needed*?
> 
> Why would I want a VPN?


Probably, but it depends on what you want to do with it, with certain job profiles it can be a necessity ~ though in such cases tor can also be a good alternative, albeit a slow(er) one.


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## dorsetknob (Sep 19, 2018)

Work from home   yes probably required by your employer
accessing Geo locked Sites  yes but probably illegal
Accessing illegal Content Yes  lets not Discuss that


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## StrayKAT (Sep 19, 2018)

VPN is not a ripoff. But any VPN service headquartered in the US (or the Five Eyes.. and then some) is a ripoff... It defeats the purpose, since the governments there don't care about your privacy. So you have to do some research where a particular VPN company is located.


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## Kursah (Sep 19, 2018)

Depends on the need, I run several different types of VPN's for various uses. There's a lot of usage in the professional sector for VPN's. Be it site-to-site or road warrior, there are so many uses for VPN's that I use, design and work with on a daily basis for clients. Having an encrypted tunnel over the Internet between two sites or devices can be critical, and needs to be done correctly. No PPTP! Use SSL where possible (IMHO). I love IPSEC and OVPN.

I believe the services you're asking about @Mighty-Lu-Bu is the VPN services that folks buy to "protect" their traffic flow over the Internet. As said above, ymmv and be careful which service you choose as some use weak encryption keys, some easily give away logs, some keep all logs, some keep the minimum required, etc. Depends on a few factors really, and then the need.

It again depends on the need and individual, most folks don't really need a VPN. Some folks might want or desire, or feel they want to hide or protect. But with these consumer service VPN's, your data is encrypted to their server where you connect...which is located in a region/country/city. Your public IP is broadcast as being from that location rather than your home. Some folks use it for location purpose, but services have caught on to most of these VPN services and block them. Keep in mind that the traffic that goes beyond their server is not encrypted unless the session with the service or site is encrypted already. 

Another thing to keep in mind is that VPN tunnels require processing overhead to encrypt and decrypt the traffic that traverses that part of the network. A lotta folks turn down encryption levels to increase bandwidth/performance and decrease CPU load. This is counterproductive to what a VPN offers though, the point is to protect and encrypt data. Running lower levels of encryption or weaker types of VPN services (looking at you PPTP), you might as well run without a VPN IMHO because there's enough data that is either being handed off in plaintext, or is a low enough level of encryption that if someone wanted it, the amount of work to get it wouldn't be very challenging in this day and age, you're paying and using something that you're not taking advantage of. 

I use PIA still every once in a while, and I cranked up the encryption. Yes my bandwidth isn't 100% what my ISP is rated at, yes my CPU usage goes up, yes my level of encryption is worth it to me when I do use that service. Same with VPN tunnels I redesign or fix, I see so many setup with baseline configs, or low-levels of encryption, drives me crazy.


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## Mighty-Lu-Bu (Sep 19, 2018)

Kursah said:


> Depends on the need, I run several different types of VPN's for various uses. There's a lot of usage in the professional sector for VPN's. Be it site-to-site or road warrior, there are so many uses for VPN's that I use, design and work with on a daily basis for clients. Having an encrypted tunnel over the Internet between two sites or devices can be critical, and needs to be done correctly. No PPTP! Use SSL where possible (IMHO). I love IPSEC and OVPN.
> 
> I believe the services you're asking about @Mighty-Lu-Bu is the VPN services that folks buy to "protect" their traffic flow over the Internet. As said above, ymmv and be careful which service you choose as some use weak encryption keys, some easily give away logs, some keep all logs, some keep the minimum required, etc. Depends on a few factors really, and then the need.
> 
> ...



I mean it would only be about security and privacy for me. I know that a VPN is the be-all, end-all of privacy, but I am sure it would help.


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## Kursah (Sep 19, 2018)

Mighty-Lu-Bu said:


> I mean it would only be about security and privacy for me. I know that a VPN is the be-all, end-all of privacy, but I am sure it would help.



I guess it depends on what you feel you will be securing or keeping private versus what actually is. That could take this wayyyyy off topic though, so I won't go there at this junction. 

You're right VPN's aren't the end-all, and depending on how they're used may not even help. But when used right, and hosted by the right service provider can be pretty damn solid. For the right situations, it is absolutely a good fit!


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## Easy Rhino (Sep 19, 2018)

Mighty-Lu-Bu said:


> Is a VPN ever needed?



If you use public wifi then yes. If you work remotely then yes. If you care about privacy then yes.


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## xorbe (Sep 19, 2018)

VPN + DNS that is not your internet provider (especially if you have a media company ie at&t comcast verizon etc).


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 20, 2018)

StrayKAT said:


> VPN is not a ripoff. But any VPN service headquartered in the US (or the Five Eyes.. and then some) is a ripoff... It defeats the purpose, since the governments there don't care about your privacy. So you have to do some research where a particular VPN company is located.


What a  bunch of malarkey.  

Once again you post a silly blanket statement. And of course, like all blanket statements, they are wrong. And your biased filled one is particularly wrong. 

Are VPNs a ripoff? No. See dorsetknob's succinct, illustrative examples.


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## StrayKAT (Sep 20, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> What a  bunch of malarkey.
> 
> Once again you post a silly blanket statement. And of course, like all blanket statements, they are wrong. And your biased filled one is particularly wrong.
> 
> Are VPNs a ripoff? No. See dorsetknob's succinct, illustrative examples.



What's untrue about it? You never heard of the NSA, the CIA, Prism, Homeland Security, the Five Eyes Agreement of sharing Intel between the US, UK, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia? It's very easy for any of these countries to seize equipment and search your data. And all major ISP and storage providers have agreements with these governments to hand these things over. Be it Google, AT&T, etc. It doesn't make much for a warrant, especially with the bogeyman of Terrorism.

Much more difficult to force someone's hands in the Cayman Islands or Switzerland or Romania. You're better off getting a VPN service headquartered there. No one discussing this subject has EVER disputed this... except you.


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## Solaris17 (Sep 20, 2018)

Lets have the following posts rely on facts to support our ideas instead of disputing individuals intellect


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## sepheronx (Sep 20, 2018)

StrayKAT said:


> What's untrue about it? You never heard of the NSA, the CIA, Prism, Homeland Security, the Five Eyes Agreement of sharing Intel between the US, UK, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia? It's very easy for any of these countries to seize equipment and search your data. And all major ISP and storage providers have agreements with these governments to hand these things over. Be it Google, AT&T, etc. It doesn't make much for a warrant, especially with the bogeyman of Terrorism.
> 
> Much more difficult to force someone's hands in the Cayman Islands or Switzerland or Romania. You're better off getting a VPN service headquartered there. No one discussing this subject has EVER disputed this... except you.



Shhh

Maybe he works for the government. Oh sh"* look out behind you!


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## StrayKAT (Sep 20, 2018)

It was Dick Cheney himself that said "We need to go to the dark side." I mean, he was completely unapologetic. Bill Binney's (NSA whistleblower) nickname for him is Darth Cheney. Then Noble Peace Prize Drone Boy didn't do much better than him afterwards. If he really cared, he would have rolled it back. But like they say, power corrupts.

So I'm a critic of both sides. I wouldn't call that biased. 

VPN services are one of the strange instances where if a company looks extremely shady, and you can't find much personal info, you're probably better off using them. lol


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 20, 2018)

StrayKAT said:


> What's untrue about it? You never heard of the NSA, the CIA, Prism, Homeland Security, the Five Eyes Agreement of sharing Intel between the US, UK, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia? It's very easy for any of these countries to seize equipment and search your data.




Contrary to what some tin-foil hat wearers want everyone to believe, the US government and our allies are NOT sitting around and listening to everyone's conversations, reading all their texts, or watching all their Internet activities. They just don't have the time, resources or desire to waste their time (and our tax money) in that way.

*IF* by chance or choice they stumble upon your connection, they are NOT going to sit around and monitor everything you do, UNLESS you are doing something, or planning something illegal!

Why? Because there are too many other big fish out there who are conducting illegal activities who actually want to hurt us. And our governments know if they miss advanced warnings, those same tin-foil hat wearers, and other conspiracy theorists will be relentless in flapping their lips with criticisms against those government agencies.

*IF* the NSA is watching you, it is NOT because your VPN is a "ripoff" as StrayKAT claims (since he claims "all" in the US are ). It it because you are doing, or planning something illegal.

And contrary to the claim, it is not easy for the governments in any of those countries to seize private citizens' equipment. They need a court order which requires substantial evidence of wrong doing.

Of course we need to go to the dark side - to catch the bad guys! Because that's where they lurk about. Freedom is not free!

Yeah, it sure would be horrible is the FBI told Scotland Yard a terrorist was about to blow up Piccadilly Circus. 

This is NOT helping the OP. Let's get back on track.


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## StrayKAT (Sep 20, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> Contrary to what some tin-foil hat wearers want everyone to believe, the US government and our allies are NOT sitting around and listening to everyone's conversations, reading all their texts, or watching all their Internet activities. They just don't have the time, resources or desire to waste their time (and our tax money) in that way.



This isn't tinfoil hats saying it. It's whistleblowers. And Bill Binney was one of the ones largely responsible for designing the systems himself. But when Cheney came in, they simplified it and used it for bulk data gathering.. and turned it on American citizens.. along with getting private companies to comply.

Just to mention.. I'm not anti-American. I like America, but only when it follows it's actual Constitution. 4th Amendment: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things ...

It's no longer about "probable cause". It's collected by default.


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## dorsetknob (Sep 20, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> Contrary to what some tin-foil hat wearers want



The lizard Alien masters now get their Agents to Spray the Above with Aerosol Gallium 
Seriously
if you use a VPN you need end to endpoint Encription   and a Powerfull PC with a Fast Connection


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## StrayKAT (Sep 20, 2018)

^ Not a "lizard man". Just a simple patriot.


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## Mighty-Lu-Bu (Sep 20, 2018)

StrayKAT said:


> This isn't tinfoil hats saying it. It's whistleblowers. And Bill Binney was one of the ones largely responsible for designing the systems himself. But when Cheney came in, they simplified it and used it for bulk data gathering.. and turned it on American citizens.. along with getting private companies to comply.
> 
> Just to mention.. I'm not anti-American. I like America, but only when it follows it's actual Constitution. 4th Amendment: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things ...
> 
> It's not longer about "probable cause" any longer. It's collected by default.



I tend to agree with you- I am totally against the Patriot Act, especially when it violates the privacy of its citizens. Countries like Germany and Sweden have extremely strict privacy laws.




dorsetknob said:


> The lizard Alien masters now get their Agents to Spray the Above with Aerosol Gallium
> Seriously
> if you use a VPN you need end to endpoint Encription   and a Powerfull PC with a Fast Connection



Well, I have a very powerful pc with great connection- still on the fence about the whole VPN thing though. I don't do anything illegal, but I do feel like having a VPN service like NordVPN for example would give me some peace of mind.


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## Solaris17 (Sep 20, 2018)

Mighty-Lu-Bu said:


> Is a VPN ever needed?
> 
> Why would I want a VPN?





Kursah said:


> I believe the services you're asking about @Mighty-Lu-Bu is the VPN services that folks buy to "protect" their traffic flow over the Internet. As said above, ymmv and be careful which service you choose as some use weak encryption keys, some easily give away logs, some keep all logs, some keep the minimum required, etc. Depends on a few factors really, and then the need.



I would like to ask *again* that we stick to the OPs original questions inline, Kursah had some great points as an example. I do not see a need to derail into mentioning aliens or tinfoil hats or the merits of state governments. If OP and the rest of you for example are worried about the kind of data collected. (which might for the sake of argument be collected by request of a govt) I strongly suggest you have a constructive conversation regarding individual VPN company data collection policies. If you happen to know them.


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## ZenZimZaliben (Sep 20, 2018)

VPS are worth it...regardless of intent. Encrypting your data is very important. Being anonymous and secure on the internet is a good thing. I also don't fully agree with you need a powerful PC. The worst case I have seen is about a 15% overhead for encrypt/decrypt.


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## Mighty-Lu-Bu (Sep 20, 2018)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> VPS are worth it...regardless of intent. Encrypting your data is very important. Being anonymous and secure on the internet is a good thing



Would you recommend a particular service?


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## ZenZimZaliben (Sep 20, 2018)

Mighty-Lu-Bu said:


> Would you recommend a particular service?



NordVPN, CyberGhost, ExpressVPN - Most of these companies allow IPs from Countries other than America. Like Germany, Russia, China and more. And also allow multiple hops like TOR browser. However adding additional hops will degrade throughput.


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## Deleted member 67555 (Sep 20, 2018)

dorsetknob said:


> Work from home   yes probably required by your employer
> accessing Geo locked Sites  yes but probably illegal
> Accessing illegal Content Yes  lets not Discuss that


^This right here^
Geo locked sites...
I enjoy Canada's Space channel which is the USA's SyFy channel...
Also I can get YouTube TV in my service area.... They literally end service in my area at my next door neighbors house.


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## StrayKAT (Sep 20, 2018)

Solaris17 said:


> I would like to ask *again* that we stick to the OPs original questions inline, Kursah had some great points as an example. I do not see a need to derail into mentioning aliens or tinfoil hats or the merits of state governments. If OP and the rest of you for example are worried about the kind of data collected. (which might for the sake of argument be collected by request of a govt) I strongly suggest you have a constructive conversation regarding individual VPN company data collection policies. If you happen to know them.



Cool. I have nothing else to add. But people should watch that vid I posted anyways. You'll thank me later.


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## Space Lynx (Sep 20, 2018)

Mighty-Lu-Bu said:


> Is a VPN ever needed?
> 
> Why would I want a VPN?




I need it because I travel the world a lot, and in order to access my medical websites I have to use an American VPN server, for some reason, the medical hospitals all ban foreign IP addresses. I mean that is fine I guess, just annoying, its not like it will stop a ransomware attacker from using a VPN either, just makes it annoying for the rest of us who need to message our doctors, lol

AIR VPN is the best imo, and it is what i have used for several years now.


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## the54thvoid (Sep 20, 2018)

lynx29 said:


> I need it because I travel the world a lot, and in order to access my medical websites I have to use an American VPN server, for some reason, the medical hospitals all ban foreign IP addresses. I mean that is fine I guess, just annoying, its not like it will stop a ransomware attacker from using a VPN either, just makes it annoying for the rest of us who need to message our doctors, lol
> 
> AIR VPN is the best imo, and it is what i have used for several years now.



Yeah,

AIR VPN, not free but good service. As far as I can tell, (trusting the service) it does not store any logs and has a decent spread of servers. Multiple users piggyback onto servers as well (I think this is better for anonymity also), though because of that I've seen a few 'bot' prevention quiz things (like the 'click all the squares with traffic signals').  Also, I used Freedome for a while but it didn't cope well with W10 for DNS leaks. Was pretty pissed at that tbh. AirVPN has never leaked DNS results for me. Just remember to turn off your browsers WebRTC setting as well.


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## king of swag187 (Sep 20, 2018)

A lot of jobs require VPN's for accessing location based information or P2P encrypting. For casual usage, you don't necessarily need a VPN unless you plan to torrent *illegaly*
or other things that you wouldn't want your ISP/Government to see


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## remixedcat (Sep 20, 2018)

Depends on the VPN, there's a lot that are just honeypots, so watch out.

I roll my own VPN for remote media access as well as having my Merali MX security policies on any connection even LTE. Comes in handy.


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## StrayKAT (Sep 20, 2018)

I was thinking of signing up for ProtonVPN myself. These are the same guys beyond ProtonMail (simplified encrypted email). They're all ex-CERN scientists.. not scummy or anything.

Actually I already am signed up for Proton as it is, but the service is better if you pay (same with the mail).


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## redeye (Sep 20, 2018)

have had no problems with nordvpn, only time i had trouble was when my own opsec was "off" (upgrading deluge in LINUX  to 2.0, the settings while they carried over...  the "force proxy" in deluge was not checked... so got a few notices within about 15-30 minutes. 
i was only using the socks5, thought the vpn was slowing things down... but, now i have noticed that the vpn/socks5 combo does not have "strange" throttling issues... moot point, because i am using a seedbox now.

A vpn is a ripoff only (IMO) if you pay month to month, i got nordvpn for 3 years at 99...

... you could also ask is a seedbox needed or a ripoff LOL...


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## StrayKAT (Sep 20, 2018)

Funny that "Nord" VPN is in Panama. But that's what I was talking about. It's a good thing.

Cross platform support is another good sign. It doesn't necessarily mean much in and of itself, but at least you know they're not slacking off and have a large team of developers. A lot still don't have Linux support,but it seems it's "upcoming" for a few of them.


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## Easy Rhino (Sep 20, 2018)

I'll tell you one thing, a VPN is certainly a lot cheaper than a lawsuit. Just sayin...


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## Liquid Cool (Sep 21, 2018)

Another NordVPN user here.  Although...my sub needs to be renewed.  I was in the middle of trying to get a new rig together so I haven't done so quite yet.  Although, I've heard they have a new command line client for linux...so I'm looking forward to trying that out!

Best,

Liquid Cool


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## DeathtoGnomes (Sep 21, 2018)

The average user does not need a VPN. They dont work from home, dont look for illegal porn, and many just dont give a shit enough about privacy.  They might need it to bypass regional restrictions for certain websites but I think thats against the local laws.  An above average user might worry more about privacy and might even know how to take steps to minimize their footprint. So leave the VPN discussion to the more paranoid users. There are things about privacy you just can get around unless you roll back to the stone age.


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## StrayKAT (Sep 21, 2018)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> and many just dont give a shit enough about privacy



That's where I disagree. In the free world, this is a right.. even if they don't care. It should be the default/natural/God given state/what have you. If rights were doled out according to what people tend to care about, we'd be screwed. People are their own worst enemies. But rights protect us even from ourselves. If it was up to me, these services and easy encryption would be built into operating systems.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Sep 21, 2018)

StrayKAT said:


> That's where I disagree. In the free world, this is a right.. even if they don't care. It should be the default/natural/God given state/what have you. If rights were doled out according to what people tend to care about, we'd be screwed. People are their own worst enemies. But rights protect us even from ourselves. If it was up to me, these services and easy encryption would be built into operating systems.


If it was up to you, we would all be a world of hurt. 

You are not wrong. Let me give you an example how naive "most people" can be. I have talked to just about all my neighbors in my apartment building and the one next to me, 8 apartments, 4 (with PCs) out of 7, not including myself, didnt know what the hell kind of privacy I was talking about, 1 didnt care, 2 only owned a console and smart phones and still didnt care. none of them ever heard of a VPN. Granted this is a small sample size but I think it still reflects the bigger picture that ignorance is bliss and privacy belongs to (sorry @Solaris17 ) tinfoils hat wearers.  Which makes your point about some people needing rights to them from themselves. As for easy encryption in OS's, its getting there, maybe eventually, but MS is probably dragging its feet on that.


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## hat (Sep 21, 2018)

I don't think it's really necessary, unless you have something to hide, or you just want to screw with tracking cookies/google/MS/facebook etc (not even sure it would work on that?)


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## StrayKAT (Sep 21, 2018)

hat said:


> I don't think it's really necessary, unless you have something to hide, or you just want to screw with tracking cookies/google/MS/facebook etc (not even sure it would work on that?)



It's not about what you need to hide.

And why the put the burden on yourself or others? Focus your attention the other way. You should put the burden on the powers that be to prove your guilt instead. That's what the Constitution is founded on... and they took a steaming pile of shit on it. Hoping you wouldn't care.

edit: Pardon my French


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## Solaris17 (Sep 21, 2018)

hat said:


> I don't think it's really necessary, unless you have something to hide, or you just want to screw with tracking cookies/google/MS/facebook etc (not even sure it would work on that?)



hmmm, it really depends on the content. most cookies and geo tracking are IP and browser based so it can very much alter where you "come from" too a servers logs and control the type of advert you get via "targeted ad" systems.


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## StrayKAT (Sep 21, 2018)

I don't even think you need to use it all the time. Or for trivial stuff like tricking ads. It's more about the option and your right. And especially private communications with friends/loved ones. Why should someone even be looking over your shoulder on these matters? You might as well leave your door open and walk around with your pants down. That's the level of carelessness here.

And even if you didn't care about yourself, your carelessness still screws over everyone else. And by everyone, I mean the whole world at this point. So thanks!


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## sepheronx (Sep 21, 2018)

I got nothing to hide.  If the NSA wants to see me naked on the toilet reading my phone, so be it.  I just feel sorry for the guy that has to see that.


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## R0H1T (Sep 21, 2018)

sepheronx said:


> I got nothing to hide.  If the NSA wants to see me *naked on the toilet reading my phone*, so be it.  I just feel sorry for the guy that has to see that.


Do you have a webcam installed in the bathroom, or toilet? If not then how do you suppose the NSA will pull that off, cellphones?


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## sepheronx (Sep 21, 2018)

R0H1T said:


> Do you have a webcam installed in the bathroom, or toilet? If not then how do you suppose the NSA will pull that off, cellphones?



cellphone


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## Assimilator (Sep 21, 2018)

Kursah said:


> *snip*



Would be interested in hearing the VPN provider(s) you recommend, if any.


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## StrayKAT (Sep 21, 2018)

sepheronx said:


> I got nothing to hide.  If the NSA wants to see me naked on the toilet reading my phone, so be it.  I just feel sorry for the guy that has to see that.



Does that mean everyone else shouldn't care? They all have to adopt this lifestyle now?

Besides, why should a government get all of this power? It's unprecedented in history. No Pharaoh, or Caesar, or Khan even came close. They didn't even have to fight for it. That's the most pathetic thing about it. People like you just handed it to them (you're not American, I know.. but I'm blaming opinions like yours in my country).


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## Assimilator (Sep 21, 2018)

StrayKAT said:


> Besides, why should a government get all of this power? It's unprecedented in history. No Pharaoh, or Caesar, or Khan even came close. They didn't even have to fight for it. That's the most pathetic thing about it. People like you just handed it to them (you're not American, I know.. but I'm blaming opinions like yours in my country).



Of course it's unprecedented... ancient civilisations didn't have computers.

And I remain baffled by the aversion that you, and a large section of the American populace, have to allowing your government to collect "private" data about you. What that tells me is that you don't trust your government, but there's never an adequately-explained reason for why that is. Yet you are perfectly happy to share all sorts of your data with private corporations like Facebook, whose motives are far less altruistic than the government's... wut?

Privacy is a dying concept in the ages of globalisation and information, and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. If your government knows more about you, it can serve you better. Of course, this does require that the government's motives are altruistic, but that is guaranteed if the voting public does the right thing and elects people with integrity, not populist panderers in the pockets of big corporations.


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## StrayKAT (Sep 21, 2018)

Assimilator said:


> Of course it's unprecedented... ancient civilisations didn't have computers.
> 
> And I remain baffled by the aversion that you, and a large section of the American populace, have to allowing your government to collect "private" data about you. What that tells me is that you don't trust your government, but there's never an adequately-explained reason for why that is. Yet you are perfectly happy to share all sorts of your data with private corporations like Facebook, whose motives are far less altruistic than the government's... wut?
> 
> Privacy is a dying concept in the ages of globalisation and information, and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. If your government knows more about you, it can serve you better. Of course, this does require that the government's motives are altruistic, but that is guaranteed if the voting public does the right thing and elects people with integrity, not populist panderers in the pockets of big corporations.



Baffled, eh? Hardly anyone likes being looked at for no reason. Not dogs. Not celebrities.. not even random people:











You just don't acknowledge the reality of what it actually is.. when it's not more tangible like the above.


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## Xzibit (Sep 21, 2018)

sepheronx said:


> I got nothing to hide.  If the NSA wants to see me naked on the toilet reading my phone, so be it.  I just feel sorry for the guy that has to see that.



You better charge them or at the very minimal put a DMCA logo


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## R0H1T (Sep 21, 2018)

StrayKAT said:


> *Baffled, eh*? Hardly anyone likes being looked at for no reason. Not dogs. Not celebrities.. not even random people:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually it's like a theme I've observed with US of A, on other forums & *reddit* as well. You seem to be pro "private enterprise" & more or less anti (big?) govt in general. Of course this is just an observation & it could be different for the majority of people, who obviously I've never interacted with. Take for instance (Apple) paying taxes or MS, Google being fined in the EU ~ I've seen far too many comments highlighting how this is (due to) *socialism*, & then I go ~ WTH seriously?


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## sepheronx (Sep 21, 2018)

StrayKAT said:


> Does that mean everyone else shouldn't care? They all have to adopt this lifestyle now?
> 
> Besides, why should a government get all of this power? It's unprecedented in history. No Pharaoh, or Caesar, or Khan even came close. They didn't even have to fight for it. That's the most pathetic thing about it. People like you just handed it to them (you're not American, I know.. but I'm blaming opinions like yours in my country).



I dont disagree with you.

I just wanted to share my naked story with you.



Xzibit said:


> You better charge them or at the very minimal put a DMCA logo



I wonder if there are people willing to pay for that?


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## StrayKAT (Sep 21, 2018)

R0H1T said:


> Actually it's like a theme I've observed with US of A, on other forums & *reddit* as well. You seem to be pro "private enterprise" & more or less anti (big?) govt in general. Of course this is just an observation & it could be different for the majority of people, who obviously I've never interacted with. Take for instance (Apple) paying taxes or MS, Google being fined in the EU ~ I've seen far too many comments highlighting how this is (due to) *socialism*, & then I go ~ WTH seriously?



My statements here are just advocating privacy for individuals. I have nothing against corporate taxes or anything like that. It shouldn't be unreasonable though (if it is, it's self-correcting anyhow. The corporation will just move, and screw over said host country). I don't think individuals have the power or weapons they need (and have a right to), in comparison.


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## johnspack (Sep 23, 2018)

Was being quiet,  but can't anymore.  You are crazy to not use a vpn in this day and age.  Sensitive data,  emails,  anything can be seen by your isp and anyone else.  I don't dare go online without
being behind a vpn.  Stupid American spy centers watching your ip and what you are doing.  F that.  I'm in Canada,  and I still don't feel safe because of Trumpism,  and NSA bs.  Either broadcast your
business to the world,  or get a vpn.  It's like 60us a year for a reliable provider like airvpn that uses the openvpn network.  More than worth it.


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## StrayKAT (Sep 23, 2018)

johnspack said:


> Was being quiet,  but can't anymore.  You are crazy to not use a vpn in this day and age.  Sensitive data,  emails,  anything can be seen by your isp and anyone else.  I don't dare go online without
> being behind a vpn.  Stupid American spy centers watching your ip and what you are doing.  F that.  I'm in Canada,  and I still don't feel safe because of Trumpism,  and NSA bs.  Either broadcast your
> business to the world,  or get a vpn.  It's like 60us a year for a reliable provider like airvpn that uses the openvpn network.  More than worth it.



This started way before Trump. But I have my doubts he'll do anything about it either.

That said, I don't use it full time like you.. since it slows my connection a bit.


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## Solaris17 (Sep 23, 2018)

Looks like we've run our course.


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