# Does anyone care about 10Gb LAN? (Poll)



## ir_cow (Jun 15, 2022)

As the thread states, I am looking to see if people care if motherboards have 10Gb LAN.


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## ThrashZone (Jun 15, 2022)

Hi,
Just gets to my 1tb monthly cap 9x faster


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## ERazer (Jun 15, 2022)

A must if you edit vid file on your NAS.


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## W1zzard (Jun 15, 2022)

Would love to have 10G at home, but switches are still too expensive (I need a 16 port model). I guess I could get a 8 port 10G switch and keep the 1G 16 port model, still expensive


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## dirtyferret (Jun 15, 2022)

not today or tomorrow but some day, but then I don't have the demands some other people do


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## Frick (Jun 15, 2022)

If I built a house now I would absolutely go for 10GbE, but just me in my apartment no particular interest.


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## P4-630 (Jun 15, 2022)

I voted NO I don't care much, but my motherboard has it...
For future uses then?


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## Pawelr98 (Jun 15, 2022)

For now, 2.5Gbit/s is getting there on the motherboard market, yet there are no inexpensive switches to follow.

While I would be glad to see NIC that are even faster than 2.5Gbit/s installed at the same cost, as long as there is no cheap external hardware to allow those speeds, it's kind of pointless.


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## 80-watt Hamster (Jun 15, 2022)

Shizz, maybe if I weren't a peasant on a 100-base home network comprising mostly secondhand or salvaged equipment tied together with string, bubblegum and hope.


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## xrror (Jun 15, 2022)

I'd love 10G now but like Wizzard said even if the NICs get cheap a decent switch with at least 16 ports for use to wire a home isn't...

Honestly I'm just happy we even still get wired Ethernet since seems like avg customer is all about Wireless for everything. Like urgh no some of us still like wires.

(but I totally get if you don't own your home, where you can't drill walls but still)


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## Solaris17 (Jun 16, 2022)

Are you guys just not interested in old gear? Or just like it from brands you can find at Walmart? Serious question. 10G has been around far longer than 2.5/5 and you can get single mellanox cards far cheaper on something like eBay, than the fancy anodized red asus cards. Likewise you can get Cisco broadcom, HP, etc etc etc 10G sfp and Ethernet switches for a few hundred. Which is on par in price with most ubiquity or mikrotik stuff.

I have seen an odd amount of hate on the forums for the better part of a year on 10G networking in general but I can’t help but wonder if it stems from simple ignorance, maybe unwillingness to believe it is a viable option, or maybe they just see a name like “Arista” and get nervous.


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## ThrashZone (Jun 16, 2022)

Solaris17 said:


> Are you guys just not interested in old gear? Or just like it from brands you can find at Walmart? Serious question. 10G has been around far longer than 2.5/5 and you can get single mellanox cards far cheaper on something like eBay, than the fancy anodized red asus cards. Likewise you can get Cisco broadcom, HP, etc etc etc 10G sfp and Ethernet switches for a few hundred. Which is on par in price with most ubiquity or mikrotik stuff.
> 
> I have seen an odd amount of hate on the forums for the better part of a year on 10G networking in general but I can’t help but wonder if it stems from simple ignorance, maybe unwillingness to believe it is a viable option, or maybe they just see a name like “Arista” and get nervous.


Hi,
Can't say for others but 10g means nothing if I don't network or if my isp is just silly expensive for it
So not sure there is any hate it's just simply not needed think you took a large leap on the hate bit here.


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## bohrz (Jun 16, 2022)

I'm starting to build a home server, and already can see the benefits of faster intra home connections. Not that I'm gonna use 10G, but it would be nice.


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## Psychoholic (Jun 16, 2022)

My main PC is on Wifi (WiFi 6) and the main bottleneck when transferring to and from my NAS is the 1Gb Nic in the server, not my WiFi
So yep, 10Gb would be great for NAS usage.


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## qubit (Jun 16, 2022)

That's a helluva lot faster than my PC!   I literally couldn't ever max it out. Nowhere near.

Therefore, I'll pass on it for now. I voted indifferent.


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## chrcoluk (Jun 16, 2022)

Ethernet seems to have hit a roadblock.

We went from 100mbit to gigabit to the point that now gigabit is standard and obtainable at similar costs to what 100mbit was, but 2.5gbit and 10gbit have a price premium that wont go away.

The problem of course to upgrade you have to upgrade both endpoints, and any intermediate switches, I analysed the cost and felt it was too expensive for little practical gain.  Most of my transfers to my NAS would be bottlenecked by the HDD on my PC only slightly above gigabit capacity.  I also only very recently setup my NAS.   So 10gbit wouldnt offer me much of a practical improvement.  Hence I voted indifferent, its an upgrade I would have done if the prices dropped to reasonable levels.



Solaris17 said:


> Are you guys just not interested in old gear? Or just like it from brands you can find at Walmart? Serious question. 10G has been around far longer than 2.5/5 and you can get single mellanox cards far cheaper on something like eBay, than the fancy anodized red asus cards. Likewise you can get Cisco broadcom, HP, etc etc etc 10G sfp and Ethernet switches for a few hundred. Which is on par in price with most ubiquity or mikrotik stuff.
> 
> I have seen an odd amount of hate on the forums for the better part of a year on 10G networking in general but I can’t help but wonder if it stems from simple ignorance, maybe unwillingness to believe it is a viable option, or maybe they just see a name like “Arista” and get nervous.


For me its just that a few hundred on a switch is miles out of my budget and I consider that very expensive.

My Archer C7 cost me £20 used, my second managed switch is an old Asus N16 I dug out of the cobwebs a couple of years ago.  So going from £20 to a few hundred in terms of % is a considerable increase in expense.  I expect I am not alone in this line of thought.


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## Dr. Dro (Jun 16, 2022)

Yeah, that would be nice. As for cost balancing, I would rather have motherboards with dual-port and/or 10GbE NICs than any form of criminally bad integrated audio. I'd happily buy a motherboard that doesn't have any integrated audio whatsoever but a higher-quality NIC instead. The past three motherboards I've owned never had anything plugged into their audio jacks throughout their entire lifetime.


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## xrror (Jun 16, 2022)

chrcoluk said:


> Ethernet seems to have hit a roadblock.
> 
> We went from 100mbit to gigabit to the point that now gigabit is standard and obtainable at similar costs to what 100mbit was, but 2.5gbit and 10gbit have a price premium that wont go away.
> 
> ...


Yea i think that kinda sums it up, since gigabit gear now is cheap as chips, and sure if you could (can you?) get like a 16 port 10G switch for say $100 (which would be an awesome deal yea) you still need a 10G card for every machine too - which adds up.

It's not that it's unreasonable, it's just if like my house there are 5 machines i'd want to be on the 10G segment to be even worth the effort. And looking at say $50 for the cheapest 10G PCIe cards that adds up fast.

It's enough that I kinda have to justify the spend to make everything 10G other than it being awesome lol. I kinda hoped that the 2.5G and 5G might have come down to being maybe same price as cheap 1G cause in that case you don't even have to really think about it. While 2.5G would still be roughly twice as fast, that's still like $30 a card and you'd still need a switch - and some of the old 10G switches that might be cheap enough pre-date 2.5G and 5G so they won't negotiate those so it just keeps squeaking outside of "impulse upgrade" price lol


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## Solaris17 (Jun 16, 2022)

chrcoluk said:


> For me its just that a few hundred on a switch is miles out of my budget and I consider that very expensive.
> 
> My Archer C7 cost me £20 used, my second managed switch is an old Asus N16 I dug out of the cobwebs a couple of years ago. So going from £20 to a few hundred in terms of % is a considerable increase in expense. I expect I am not alone in this line of thought.



Thats a pretty resonable response. I forget its a tech forum sometimes. Drives me mad reading snarky comments about 10g. Especially when im looking at ent contract pricing at $14+k USD/switch and im getting hundreds. To watch people glorify a 2.5g RGB router and get mad that the same 10G switch I am buying without support is $250 on ebay. To me its wildly cost effective. To those that have a max budget of $100 in general on network gear they only replace once a decade I guess I can see it.


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## Count von Schwalbe (Jun 16, 2022)

I need to vote for both. I am waay over my head trying to set up even a network drive, so home stuff is gigabit or WiFi, mostly WiFi. For work though? I run a program that consumes at a bite all available RAM then transfers many many small chunks of data and sometimes quite large chunks (for being part of a program) to a database on our local server. Imagine waiting 5-8 seconds for your clicks to actually do anything, until it has loades a different set of items into memory...

TL;DR: I need 10Gb ultra low latency for work, but I don't really care about it at home.


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## ir_cow (Jun 16, 2022)

Dr. Dro said:


> Yeah, that would be nice. As for cost balancing, I would rather have motherboards with dual-port and/or 10GbE NICs than any form of criminally bad integrated audio. I'd happily buy a motherboard that doesn't have any integrated audio whatsoever but a higher-quality NIC instead. The past three motherboards I've owned never had anything plugged into their audio jacks throughout their entire lifetime.


Wouldn't that be nice.


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## TheUn4seen (Jun 16, 2022)

Personally I don't care.
I rarely move large enough amount of data for gigabit to be limiting and even when I do, I just leave it overnight when I sleep. I never found myself in a situation when I absolutely, positively, needed to copy my Star Trek collection from the NAS within a few minutes.
In addition to that, my main NAS is a low power, passively cooled Celeron J1800 machine. To saturate a 10GB/s connection I would need to build something much more powerful, which means more power hungry and louder. And for what, to see my old photo 0.01 seconds faster?
I don't think it's a price related problem. Faster than gigabit LAN just seems to be not really necessary in the vast majority of situations. It's just like with super-fast WAN. My ISP upgraded me to a gigabit connection for a year because I was with them for ten years. Seems great, but after a year I looked at my long-term statistics and noticed I maxed it so rarely it didn't even show on a graph. Now I'm back on a 100/20 connection and don't see any difference.
There certainly are people who need 10Gb ethernet, but I'd hazard a guess they are few and far between. In the vast majority of situations it's just a case of the manufacturer wanting to have a higher number on the box and consumer some bragging rights to bolster an ego.


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## sam_86314 (Jun 16, 2022)

Yes.

I have a 10GbE link between my home server and my main PC (using old server hardware, so it cost like $80 for two NICs and an SFP+ cable) and it's awesome.


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## newtekie1 (Jun 16, 2022)

I was really happy when they started to put 10Gb on motherboards. Then 2.5Gb came out and they dumped the 10Gb ports for 2.5Gb. It was a step backwards, and it pisses me off.

I've got a 10Gb network between the machines that need it, but I had to put PCI-E add-in cards into each machine. It would be nice if they just had it built in so I didn't have to waste the PCI-E slot.


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## oxrufiioxo (Jun 16, 2022)

I think it should just be a given on any semi high end motherboard..... It makes me cringe when I see 400+ usd boards not include it.


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## AugeK (Jun 16, 2022)

10 GBit ist about 1 GByte data rate.
Without a harddrive able to provide such a constant data rate your network would have to wait for your harddrive all the time, assuming all your home network (switches, cables, ..) is 10 GBit capable.
My personal conclusion: without a good SSD on your NAS and a network with 10GBit support this  a waste of resources.


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## TheLostSwede (Jun 16, 2022)

ir_cow said:


> As the thread states, I am looking to see if people care if motherboards have 10Gb LAN.


I use it daily, as I have a 10 Gbps in my PC and my NAS.
Makes a huge difference.


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## looniam (Jun 16, 2022)

indifferent cuz isp router only.

but i do got junk laying around . . .


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## AlwaysHope (Jun 16, 2022)

AugeK said:


> 10 GBit ist about 1 GByte data rate.
> Without a harddrive able to provide such a constant data rate your network would have to wait for your harddrive all the time, assuming all your home network (switches, cables, ..) is 10 GBit capable.
> My personal conclusion: without a good SSD on your NAS and a network with 10GBit support this  a waste of resources.


Good point. But with PCIe 5.0 drives apparently being released later this year, that bottleneck will be overcome. Of course, its only for those who have the budget for them.


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## defaultluser (Jun 16, 2022)

Its going to be another decade before I can replace all these 5400 rpm  data disks with SSDs - until then, all my disk-to-disk transfers are all slower  than gigabit.

I figure by the time I can justify that, the 2.5G ports will finally  become standard.* ( plenty enough speed bump on my existing Cat5e,  for anything except reading from an SSD Nas, because buffer-emptied write speed off cheap ssd is likely lower than 300 MB/s.)*


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## ERazer (Jun 16, 2022)

I would assumed anybody looking at getting 10gb connection on their NAS has done some research how their NAS drive need to be setup either having SSD/NVME cache or RAID SSD or else as you mentioned is pointless


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## Razrback16 (Jun 16, 2022)

Indifferent for now. My network at the house is 1GB currently and is nowhere close to being saturated even with multiple Plex streams, internet use, etc.


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## TheLostSwede (Jun 16, 2022)

ERazer said:


> I would assumed anybody looking at getting 10gb connection on their NAS has done some research how their NAS drive need to be setup either having SSD/NVME cache or RAID SSD or else as you mentioned is pointless


Pointless you say? No SSD involved.


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## ERazer (Jun 16, 2022)

TheLostSwede said:


> Pointless you say? No SSD involved.
> 
> View attachment 251256


Welp I take it back, guess depends how many spinning drives you have on your pool or even if your NAS running zfs


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## TheLostSwede (Jun 16, 2022)

ERazer said:


> Welp I take it back, guess depends how many spinning drives you have on your pool or even if your NAS running zfs


That was just four drives in RAID-5. 
Not using traditional RAID at the moment thought.


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## niko084 (Jun 16, 2022)

The lack of movement in network throughputs is absurd at this point.. My internet connection has a faster download than the LAN side of the modem is capable of, my WiFi is capable of higher speeds than most my LAN... 15 years ago when fast hard drives could run 80MB/s it wasn't as annoying. I'm not sure where / if design issues come into play or if it's been grossly ignored because it's not really a need for most.. I have no 10Gb+ connections for anything other than vhost/san connectivity, and switch stacking. -- Can't justify the costs for my own use yet, but it's past time we move from 1gb.


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## The red spirit (Jun 16, 2022)

ERazer said:


> A must if you edit vid file on your NAS.


Radical idea, but why not just put that storage inside computer? Seems like complete no-brainer.


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## ir_cow (Jun 16, 2022)

The red spirit said:


> Radical idea, but why not just put that storage inside computer? Seems like complete no-brainer.


Depends on what your working with. For example a single RED 6K project I did was 2TB in size. If I want to work on my computer, it will need to be backed up anyways and any adjusts to my project must be saved each day. At that point, might as well work from the NAS which already has a redundancy.


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## ERazer (Jun 16, 2022)

The red spirit said:


> Radical idea, but why not just put that storage inside computer? Seems like complete no-brainer.


Radical not really, though my personal rig is very capable I feel more safe my work is backed up and I can access my file remotely if needed.


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## The red spirit (Jun 16, 2022)

ir_cow said:


> Depends on what your working with. For example a single RED 6K project I did was 2TB in size. If I want to work on my computer, it will need to be backed up anyways and any adjusts to my project must be saved each day. At that point, might as well work from the NAS which already has a redundancy.


Why not just use RAID on desktop? RAID 1 always "backs-up".



ERazer said:


> Radical not really, though my personal rig is very capable I feel more safe my work is backed up and I can access my file remotely if needed.


Wait. So you upload it via wifi from camera and then connect to NAS from computer with cable?


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## ir_cow (Jun 17, 2022)

The red spirit said:


> Why not just use RAID on desktop? RAID 1 always "backs-up".


Rule #1 - Never keep important data in one place. This goes for a NAS as well. But depending on your setup, the NAS might have a UPS and a larger redundancy making it a better choice to work from. Don't forget if you have more than one person working on a project its not ideal to live on someones personal computer.


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## ERazer (Jun 17, 2022)

The red spirit said:


> Why not just use RAID on desktop? RAID 1 always "backs-up".
> 
> 
> Wait. So you upload it via wifi from camera and then connect to NAS from computer with cable?


My set-up: 10gb fiber to my NAS's (TrueNas vm thru Proxmox server) then 10gb to my unRaid for archiving. I can digest the media on my PC and directly transfer it to NAS folder or thru iSCSI drive from TrueNas, heck I can even fire up another VM with usb passthru and digest media that way.


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## newtekie1 (Jun 17, 2022)

AlwaysHope said:


> Good point. But with PCIe 5.0 drives apparently being released later this year, that bottleneck will be overcome. Of course, its only for those who have the budget for them.


A PCI-E Gen3 NVMe SSD can hit these speeds, even the shitting ones even. In my case I have an NVMe SSD as a cache drive in my server, so I often see 10Gb throughput to and from my server to my desktops.



The red spirit said:


> RAID 1 always "backs-up".


RAID1 never backs up.


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## Solaris17 (Jun 17, 2022)

The red spirit said:


> Why not just use RAID on desktop? RAID 1 always "backs-up".


RAID is not a backup.


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## caroline! (Jun 17, 2022)

My internet barely hits 1Mbps and I don't have a NAS so nope.


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## AlwaysHope (Jun 17, 2022)

newtekie1 said:


> A PCI-E Gen3 NVMe SSD can hit these speeds, even the shitting ones even. In my case I have an NVMe SSD as a cache drive in my server, so I often see 10Gb throughput to and from my server to my desktops.
> 
> 
> RAID1 never backs up.


No way in hell can Gen 3 Nvme SSDs hit Gen 5 speed throughput. That overflow of data above 3,500MB/s (PCIe 3.0 peak transfer speed) is stored in the system RAM until it can be written to a permanent storage device.


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## Dr. Dro (Jun 17, 2022)

AlwaysHope said:


> No way in hell can Gen 3 Nvme SSDs hit Gen 5 speed throughput. That overflow of data above 3,500MB/s (PCIe 3.0 peak transfer speed) is stored in the system RAM until it can be written to a permanent storage device.



I believe they meant that 3500 MB/s turns out to be around 28 Gbps of bandwidth, so even lower end Gen 3 drives should be able to saturate a 10GbE uplink (1250 MB/s)


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## Kissamies (Jun 17, 2022)

Nah, 1Gbit is enough (at least for now) for me and my Internet connection is also just 100Mbit. I may change my mind if I put a server to the corner.


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## GreiverBlade (Jun 17, 2022)

voted no, just like Nexus mods premium subscription is useless to me since the capped non premium max speed is literally my connection max speed (~30Mbits), i would see zero improvement, plus my mobo has a 1Gb/2.5Gb (2.5Gb is overkill then  ) if i used a NAS/server maybe ... although 2.5Gb would be enough.




Lenne said:


> Nah, 1Gbit is enough (at least for now) for me and my Internet connection is also just 100Mbit. I may change my mind if I put a server to the corner.


ah well ... i am not alone


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## silentbogo (Jun 17, 2022)

10G network has been on my bucket list for awhile, though I have a small server rack at home. Already got some cheap SFP+ adapters, just need to save up some cash on a semi-decent switch. 
I was eyeing something like a Mikrotik CSS610-8G-2S+IN: by far the cheapest, has two SFP+ ports for my PC and NAS, and 10x 1GbE ports for other devices, which means it can replace my Edgerouter 10X in the rack. CS305-1G-4S+ is another good option, but nearly twice as expensive. 
Consumer 10gig ethernet is still wa-a-a-ay out of my pocket's reach.


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## Chrispy_ (Jun 17, 2022)

ir_cow said:


> I am looking to see if people care if motherboards have 10Gb LAN.


I voted yes, but not for SFP+ ports.

Home users typically don't want the noisy rackmount switches that have 10GbE SFP+ and few homes, if any, are wired with fibre patch panels. SFP transceivers are also pretty expensive and the cheaper TwinAx copper DAC cables are short and inflexible.

10GbE over CAT6a will run up to around 37m I think which is a perfectly usable distance for your average consumer.

This is just my opinion, but home ethernet is either WiFi or RJ45 ethernet socket. For those few instances where people actually need 10GbE via an SFP+ port, then just put an add-in card in. That's what all those empty PCIe slots on the motherboard _are for_.

On a side note, I just wish more decent, cheap 2.5Gb switches existed. They're coming soon with new, cheaper SoCs but they're at least 5 years overdue and hindering the adoption of 2.5Gb.


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## TheLostSwede (Jun 17, 2022)

Chrispy_ said:


> 10GbE over CAT6a will run up to around 37m I think which is a perfectly usable distance for your average consumer.


100 meters over CAT6A, 50 meters over CAT6.


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## Chrispy_ (Jun 17, 2022)

TheLostSwede said:


> 100 meters over CAT6A, 50 meters over CAT6.


Ah okay. I have the number 37-55m in my head for something, I thought that was CAT6A-CAT7 but either way, 50m is plenty as a worst-case.


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## birdie (Jun 17, 2022)

2.5Gbps is a good middle ground and nowadays it costs almost the same as old good 1Gbps. Switches are still super expensive though.


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## TheLostSwede (Jun 17, 2022)

Chrispy_ said:


> Ah okay. I have the number 37-55m in my head for something, I thought that was CAT6A-CAT7 but either way, 50m is plenty as a worst-case.


CAT7 isn't part of the regular Ethernet standard, the next step up is CAT8.


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## Mussels (Jun 17, 2022)

Long term yes

I only have 50Mb internet and dont even see how people can benefit from gigabit without a whole lotta people in that house, but for local file transfer 1Gb is way behind even SATA SSD's, let alone NVME.


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## silentbogo (Jun 17, 2022)

Mussels said:


> I only have 50Mb internet and dont even see how people can benefit from gigabit without a whole lotta people in that house


Depends on the location/country. In my area most ISPs already started to phase-out plans under 100Mbit/s (including infamous Ukrtelecom, formerly owned by govt., and  later by oligarch Akhmetov), which means gigabit WAN is a must nowadays. I have several friends that run small local ISP companies, and they only keep 50Mbit/s plans for very remote areas(or the ones with very few clients).
Another good motivator, is that any plan usually comes with gigabit speeds within UA-IX and other Ukrainian exchange networks, which is not only useful for synicing data between servers, but for more mundane things, like mom watching her favorite new show in UHD, while father is watching some weirdo fixing up an old motorcycle on Youtube (also in 4K), while their kid can easily download a new 100+GB title off Steam without interfering with parents and without losing bandwidth. 100Mbit/s sounds like a lot, but it's very easy to cap out today. Back when I had my semi-free 100Mbit/s connection, I had to leave rsync going overnight. After I moved and got faster internet - the same task takes only 2-2.5 hours, which makes my life helluvalot easier.


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## The red spirit (Jun 17, 2022)

Solaris17 said:


> RAID is not a backup.


Thus quote marks.


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## Chrispy_ (Jun 17, 2022)

TheLostSwede said:


> CAT7 isn't part of the regular Ethernet standard, the next step up is CAT8.


That's just a political bickering and willy waving contest between the ISO standards body and the TIA though.

Cat7 was ratified for 10GbE over 100M back in 2006 so that's what people have been using in new builds and fitouts for a decade. As for CAT8, it's not general purpose cabling for office/residential use, so irrelevant in this discussion about consumer motherboards for home PCs.


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## TheLostSwede (Jun 17, 2022)

Chrispy_ said:


> That's just a political bickering and willy waving contest between the ISO standards body and the TIA though.
> 
> Cat7 was ratified for 10GbE over 100M back in 2006 so that's what people have been using in new builds and fitouts for a decade. As for CAT8, it's not general purpose cabling for office/residential use, so irrelevant in this discussion about consumer motherboards for home PCs.


Still, CAT7 Ethernet cables aren't really for part of the standard. Then again, nothing "better" than CAT6A is needed, there are zero reasons to pay more in this case.
I see people claiming their internet speeds improved because they got a CAT7 cables, which is yeah...


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## The King (Jun 17, 2022)

I have not used lan for years! remove it and drop the price of the board even more should be another option. lol


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## Chrispy_ (Jun 17, 2022)

TheLostSwede said:


> Still, CAT7 Ethernet cables aren't really for part of the standard. Then again, nothing "better" than CAT6A is needed, there are zero reasons to pay more in this case.
> I see people claiming their internet speeds improved because they got a CAT7 cables, which is yeah...


CAT7 is just what is used now. Ethernet is one of several possible uses of CAT7 cabling so if the TIA wants to backtrack on what was ratified in 2006, nobody cares. ISO > TIA.


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## TheLostSwede (Jun 17, 2022)

Chrispy_ said:


> CAT7 is just what is used now. Ethernet is one of several possible uses of CAT7 cabling so if the TIA wants to backtrack on what was ratified in 2006, nobody cares. ISO > TIA.


That's not true though. It's something being sold to people who don't know anything about cables and costs at least 2-3x as much as a regular CAT6 or CAT6A cable.



The King said:


> I have not used lan for years! remove it and drop the price of the board even more should be another option. lol


Yeah no thanks. Ethernet always work, unlike WiFi.


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## bonehead123 (Jun 17, 2022)

I would rather have 10Gb (or anything faster than 1Gb) internet service 1st, then I would consider thinking about the wiring from my cable box to my router, which is currently all Cat7 ethernet running out to my 1Gb switches...

Yea, I know there are people who will say that Cat7 is unnecessary, but when re-wiring my house recently, I figured why not, perhaps it might "future proof" me for a few years or so...

I will *NOT*, under any circumstances, be getting wireless from the street to my house... it just aint happening, period, no if's, and's, or butts about it, just gimme those damned wires with 2.5/5/10G and I'll be happy (unless my ISP goes bankrupt...yea, right!)


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## Chrispy_ (Jun 17, 2022)

TheLostSwede said:


> That's not true though. It's something being sold to people who don't know anything about cables and costs at least 2-3x as much as a regular CAT6 or CAT6A cable.


CAT7 vs CAT6A?
Cost is irrelevant, even when buying kilometers of the stuff for a fitout - because the cable cost itself is almost negligible compared to the labour and termination hardware at each end.

As I said, CAT7 is used in buildings for more than just ethernet and having better quality cable installed is just the obvious choice as it can cost hundreds of times more than the cable is worth in labour and downtime to change it later. Fitouts almost always spec the highest cable commonly available to maximise its useful lifespan. Perhaps CAT7 isn't a TIA-approved standard but we know it handles 10GbE like CAT6A does, being fully-backwards compatible - but perhaps it will handle a future 25GbE while CAT6A needs to be torn out and replaced at huge expense.


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## Dr. Dro (Jun 17, 2022)

My setup is running CAT5E cabling, it's a gigabit network, but it's never really been a problem. I agree that it's wise to invest a bit in more expensive, advanced standard patch cables if you plan to futureproof a permanent installation, but I must confess I just have the dang ol' blue cable running across my living room for the time being


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## bonehead123 (Jun 17, 2022)

Chrispy_ said:


> CAT7 vs CAT6A?
> Cost is irrelevant, even when buying kilometers of the stuff for a fitout - because the cable cost itself is almost negligible compared to the labour and termination hardware at each end.
> 
> As I said, CAT7 is used in buildings for more than just ethernet and having better quality cable installed is just the obvious choice as it can cost hundreds of times more than the cable is worth in labour and downtime to change it later. Fitouts almost always spec the highest cable commonly available to maximise its useful lifespan. Perhaps CAT7 isn't a TIA-approved standard but we know it handles 10GbE like CAT6A does, being fully-backwards compatible - but perhaps it will handle a future 25GbE while CAT6A needs to be torn out and replaced at huge expense.


I came across this issue a while back while working on an multi-billion $$ industrical project that involved data, telecom, security and digital voice wiring.  The original contract, signed in 2018, called for Cat5e.... but once the structures were complete, the conduits installed, and we were getting ready to actually pull the cable in 2020, it was clear that the obvious choice would be to go with Cat7 instead, for many reasons, not the least of which would have been the ginormous downtime & costs of tearing out the Cat5 & upgrading to Cat6, 7 or 8 in the future...

Yes it cost the project owners (big energy co.) moar moolah up front, but considering what they were already spending on the project, it was a drop in the proverbial bucket.  The facility & all of it's systems are & have been operating at peak efficiency since mid-2020 with absolutely ZERO networking issues to date... no signal integrity concerns, no data losses or slow transmission speeds, no lost calls, no grainy, unviewable security footage, nope....notta... nuthin... zip...


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## mechtech (Jun 17, 2022)

ir_cow said:


> As the thread states, I am looking to see if people care if motherboards have 10Gb LAN.


Yes and no.  We need something faster than 1Gb.  Even a regular raid 1 hdd NAS can saturate 1Gb network.  You’d need 5Gb for sata ssd and more for raid 0 or nvme drives.  2.5 is a welcome step from 1, but I feel like 5 should be minimum in 2022 and 10 the preferred/enthusiast option.



bonehead123 said:


> I came across this issue a while back while working on an multi-billion $$ industrical project that involved data, telecom, security and digital voice wiring.  The original contract, signed in 2018, called for Cat5e.... but once the structures were complete, the conduits installed, and we were getting ready to actually pull the cable in 2020, it was clear that the obvious choice would be to go with Cat7 instead, for many reasons, not the least of which would have been the ginormous downtime & costs of tearing out the Cat5 & upgrading to Cat6, 7 or 8 in the future...
> 
> Yes it cost the project owners (big energy co.) moar moolah up front, but considering what they were already spending on the project, it was a drop in the proverbial bucket.  The facility & all of it's systems are & have been operating at peak efficiency since mid-2020 with absolutely ZERO networking issues to date... no signal integrity concerns, no data losses or slow transmission speeds, no lost calls, no grainy, unviewable security footage, nope....notta... nuthin... zip...


Cat 7 wasn’t available when I wired my old home. But regular meh stuff got cat 6 and my stuff and other possibly higher demand future stuff got 6a/6a shielded.


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## newtekie1 (Jun 18, 2022)

Dr. Dro said:


> I believe they meant that 3500 MB/s turns out to be around 28 Gbps of bandwidth, so even lower end Gen 3 drives should be able to saturate a 10GbE uplink (1250 MB/s)


Poor guy's arguing in a tech forum, in a thread about networking, and doesn't know the difference between Gb and GB. 



TheLostSwede said:


> 100 meters over CAT6A, 50 meters over CAT6.


Funny thing is, the 37m rating is the rating for 10Gb on Cat5e. Which there still seems to be a lot of people that seem to think you can't use Cat5e at all with 10Gb for some reason.


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## P4-630 (Jun 18, 2022)

Changed my vote "Do you want 10Gb LAN on a Motherboard?" to YES.

Do I need it now? No, but my motherboard has it.


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## ThrashZone (Jun 18, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> Changed my vote "Do you want 10Gb LAN on a Motherboard?" to YES.
> 
> Do I need it now? No, but my motherboard has it.


Hi,
That's not what the title or thread states


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## P4-630 (Jun 18, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> That's not what the title or thread states
> 
> View attachment 251479



I read it yes, but the poll question says: "*Do you want* 10Gb LAN on a Motherboard?"....

If the poll said "do you care"? I say no.


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## ThrashZone (Jun 18, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> I read it yes, but the poll question says: "*Do you want* 10Gb LAN on a Motherboard?"....
> 
> If the poll said "do you care"? I say no.


Hi,
Nice you have it on your board already at least you have the option if you choose to use it in the future


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## P4-630 (Jun 18, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Nice you have it on your board already at least you have the option if you choose to use it in the future



LOL I said that before in this thread!  
But yes.









						Does anyone care about 10Gb LAN? (Poll)
					

As the thread states, I am looking to see if people care if motherboards have 10Gb LAN.




					www.techpowerup.com


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## defaultluser (Jun 18, 2022)

Wont pay extra, because without a multi-disk nas array, I have yet to consistently  exceed the transfer rate of a single red hdd

I find 2.5g running on my existing cat5e a much better upgrade path -but only once I upgrade all of these data drives to sata ssds ( probably another decade)


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## phill (Jun 18, 2022)

Solaris17 said:


> Are you guys just not interested in old gear? Or just like it from brands you can find at Walmart? Serious question. 10G has been around far longer than 2.5/5 and you can get single mellanox cards far cheaper on something like eBay, than the fancy anodized red asus cards. Likewise you can get Cisco broadcom, HP, etc etc etc 10G sfp and Ethernet switches for a few hundred. Which is on par in price with most ubiquity or mikrotik stuff.
> 
> I have seen an odd amount of hate on the forums for the better part of a year on 10G networking in general but I can’t help but wonder if it stems from simple ignorance, maybe unwillingness to believe it is a viable option, or maybe they just see a name like “Arista” and get nervous.


I can't agree more with this having just got a 10Gb network setup in my home    Running on Cat5E without any issues.



caroline! said:


> My internet barely hits 1Mbps and I don't have a NAS so nope.


I think that's more of a reason to have a NAS and a good intranet  It was one of the reasons I made that choice a few years ago and I've never looked back 

As I started above, I had recently managed to have my home internet upgraded and made into a monster and when I was looking and thinking about it, why have a 1Gb download, to then only have a 1Gb network at home.  Transferring data and downloading at the same time, not going to work without slowing things down (can't have it, unacceptable....  ) so I decided to give something a try and try to find some bits and pieces that would work how I wished it too.

So with a Threadripper system that had a 10Gb network LAN adaptor and I thought hang on, so I grabbed a 10Gb Asus card and away we went.  I had recently thought I should have gone for another card but still    Having also found a couple Enterprise cards that have dual ports, it was just a dead cert to do stupid things 

Much to learn about it and the 8 port 10Gb TP Link switch I have is annoying as the fan is terribly loud even without anything connected but as soon as funds allow, I'll be switching it out for a 24 port model instead.  I know that's completely overkill in my current network setup with about 24 cables around the house but I guess at least I have expansion, not to mention only a few devices have the 10Gb LAN connections...   Onto complete overkill network upgrade soon 

(Apologies, hopefully not too much 'talking' there    I'll leave now )


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## Assimilator (Jun 18, 2022)

I voted no, for the simple reason that I haven't used wired ethernet in the last 3 year... and contrary to my initial expectations, it's been absolutely fine. Wireless ethernet has become Good Enough - in terms of ease of setup, reliability and speed - for ordinary consumers, that high-speed wired links simply aren't the necessity that they used to be. And that means 10GbE isn't as necessary in consumer products as 1GbE was, which - since 10GbE chips are still relatively large and power-hungry - also means there's a massive economic disincentive for manufacturers to concentrate on 10GbE. It's a vicious negative feedback loop.

Personally I'm glad, because wireless is absolutely the future. And yes, I have run Cat5 in multiple ceilings of multiple houses in my time.


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## TheLostSwede (Jun 19, 2022)

Assimilator said:


> Personally I'm glad, because wireless is absolutely the future. And yes, I have run Cat5 in multiple ceilings of multiple houses in my time.


Wireless is still not full duplex though, so far from ideal during a lot of situations.
WiFi has advantages for sure, but it can never replace wired.


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## P4-630 (Jun 19, 2022)

Also a WIFI user here, the only thing I have wired is my TV, since WIFI for Smart TV is crapshoot....


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## TheLostSwede (Jun 19, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> Also a WIFI user here, the only thing I have wired is my TV, since WIFI for Smart TV is crapshoot....


I have exactly the opposite experience where the WiFi works (barely) and the wired Ethernet is a crapshoot. 
For some reason our Samsung TV has the worst wired Ethernet I've ever come across, with the 100 Mbps interface barely managing 4 Mbps upload speeds. No, it's not the wiring that's faulty.


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## defaultluser (Jun 19, 2022)

phill said:


> As I started above, I had recently managed to have my home internet upgraded and made into a monster and when I was looking and thinking about it, why have a 1Gb download, to then only have a 1Gb network at home.  Transferring data and downloading at the same time, not going to work without slowing things down (can't have it, unacceptable....  ) so I decided to give something a try and try to find some bits and pieces that would work how I wished it too.




You do know how an Ethernet switch works, right?  Every network cable gets the same dedicated 1 Gbps bandwidth

this could only be justified if you were downloading from the internet while maxing-out your local nas (everyone else has uninterrupted bandwidth to network storage).


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## eidairaman1 (Jun 19, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> Changed my vote "Do you want 10Gb LAN on a Motherboard?" to YES.
> 
> Do I need it now? No, but my motherboard has it.


If i needed higher function I would just buy a lan card. Most at best connectivity is 1Gibibit.


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## phill (Jun 20, 2022)

defaultluser said:


> You do know how an Ethernet switch works, right?  Every network cable gets the same dedicated 1 Gbps bandwidth
> 
> this could only be justified if you were downloading from the internet while maxing-out your local nas (everyone else has uninterrupted bandwidth to network storage).


I do, but if I'm downloading on the same PC that I'm transferring to that's limited to a 1Gb connection, to half its performance, which I don't want    Plus its not all about the connection speed as such but the drive speed/performance from the server/other devices.  
Each time you can access the NAS from another device, the performance will take a hit and it will be 50% of what it could be with a 1Gb connection.  If the server can operate at 10Gb and the rest 1Gb, at least then the 10 machines that could access it before things start slowing down is a bonus


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## theFOoL (Jun 20, 2022)

I voted no bc everything is wireless at least here. Cost a arm and a leg to hire people to route or drill holes in walls


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## Muck Muster (Jun 20, 2022)

Yeah, I heard that. 10 years ago, Comcast sent a guy to setup high speed internet for our neighbor, across the street. To save time, he spliced into our internet line and just decelerated our high speed connection. When they got through fixing it, it looked pretty odd with all the useless cabling.


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## AusWolf (Jun 20, 2022)

There's no point. My great British broadband can't even do 100 Mbps, let alone 1 Gbps or 10.



theFOoL said:


> I voted no bc everything is wireless at least here. Cost a arm and a leg to hire people to route or drill holes in walls


That too. No chance drilling in a rented flat.


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## caroline! (Jun 20, 2022)

phill said:


> I can't agree more with this having just got a 10Gb network setup in my home    Running on Cat5E without any issues.
> 
> 
> I think that's more of a reason to have a NAS and a good intranet  It was one of the reasons I made that choice a few years ago and I've never looked back
> ...


I just get a new hard drive whenever the need arises.



theFOoL said:


> I voted no bc everything is wireless at least here. Cost a arm and a leg to hire people to route or drill holes in walls


Had a 50m long ethernet cable going from the basement to my room through floors and stairs before I repurposed the old phone wiring for regular Eth, peaks out at 10Mbit/s but that's still 10 times faster than my internet so it's never saturated to cause packet loss or noise.


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## ir_cow (Jun 22, 2022)

Thanks for the comments people! This is great for understanding people's perspective on 10 Gb LAN.


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## The red spirit (Jun 22, 2022)

Assimilator said:


> I voted no, for the simple reason that I haven't used wired ethernet in the last 3 year... and contrary to my initial expectations, it's been absolutely fine. Wireless ethernet has become Good Enough - in terms of ease of setup, reliability and speed - for ordinary consumers, that high-speed wired links simply aren't the necessity that they used to be. And that means 10GbE isn't as necessary in consumer products as 1GbE was, which - since 10GbE chips are still relatively large and power-hungry - also means there's a massive economic disincentive for manufacturers to concentrate on 10GbE. It's a vicious negative feedback loop.
> 
> Personally I'm glad, because wireless is absolutely the future. And yes, I have run Cat5 in multiple ceilings of multiple houses in my time.


I actually also use wireless. It got cheap and good. You can have nearly bottom of the barrel router some inexpensive wifi cards or USB sticks and it will be reasonably fast. I can watch 4k30 YT without issues. Not even ping is poor.


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## The Von Matrices (Jun 22, 2022)

I voted no.  Not because I don't want 10Gb connections.  I actually have a 10Gb SFP+ optical connection from my PC to the network switch and a 2Gb/s internet connection.

I voted no because I know that the feature will only show up on $700+ motherboards, which I wouldn't be buying anyway.  Add-in cards give much more flexibility and can be reused between system upgrades.


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## The red spirit (Jun 23, 2022)

The Von Matrices said:


> Add-in cards give much more flexibility and can be reused between system upgrades.


There are even USB to ethernet adapters. Those are even more reusable. You can even connect Android phone to wired internet if you want.


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## Pawelr98 (Jun 24, 2022)

xrror said:


> Yea i think that kinda sums it up, since gigabit gear now is cheap as chips, and sure if you could (can you?) get like a 16 port 10G switch for say $100 (which would be an awesome deal yea) you still need a 10G card for every machine too - which adds up.
> 
> It's not that it's unreasonable, it's just if like my house there are 5 machines i'd want to be on the 10G segment to be even worth the effort. And looking at say $50 for the cheapest 10G PCIe cards that adds up fast.
> 
> It's enough that I kinda have to justify the spend to make everything 10G other than it being awesome lol. I kinda hoped that the 2.5G and 5G might have come down to being maybe same price as cheap 1G cause in that case you don't even have to really think about it. While 2.5G would still be roughly twice as fast, that's still like $30 a card and you'd still need a switch - and some of the old 10G switches that might be cheap enough pre-date 2.5G and 5G so they won't negotiate those so it just keeps squeaking outside of "impulse upgrade" price lol


2.5Gbit cards are more like 15-20$, just use aliexpress, not amazon/newegg/whatever.
RTL8125 is the standard for 2.5Gbit/s these days, inexpensive Realtek chip.

Big HDD's these days can push quite close to 300MB/s sequential, which happens to be about what the 2.5Gbit/s is capable of.
So it's not like you need an SSD to see gains from above gigabit speeds.


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