# Sound card - Is it worth it? (also new speaker suggestions)



## Hellfire (Dec 20, 2018)

Hi Guys,

So I am planning my new PC build, it's going to be a full build from scratch, in the past I've always ignored audio and gone with on board, I think I haven't bothered with Sound cards since the days of Soundblaster Live/Audigy

Are Sound cards worth it? do they offer better audio than onboard? I'm happy spending a few hundred on a sound card if I will provide better audio

Secondly, new speakers? I need some with my new build so suggestions on the best to get would be appreciative.

Budget is £400 for the combined speaker/sound card? can stretch to more if needed.

Thanks friends. (PS. it is used for both gaming and music but I do not consider myself an audiophile)


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## btarunr (Dec 20, 2018)

As someone who's owned legendary sound cards such as the Auzentech X-Meridian, SB XFi Xtreme Music, AudigyZ, etc., among several others throughout the 90s and 00s, I must admit that today's high-end motherboards have really caught up with ~£100-150 sound cards. Among motherboard vendors, GIGABYTE takes its onboard audio solutions most seriously. See if you can spend the extra £100 on a high-end GIGABYTE motherboard over what you originally planned, which comes with ESS Sabre DACs driving the main front channel, ALC1220VB pulling the other channels, user-replaceable OPAMPs, and pretty decent WIMA capacitors, EMI shielding, etc. I've built a machine with one of those boards, and they sound seriously good.


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## GlacierNine (Dec 20, 2018)

I wouldn't bother with an internal soundcard in 2018. An external USB DAC will be much better.


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## MyTechAddiction (Dec 20, 2018)

Get the good speakers first, if you are pleased by the sound stop right there.Warning : there is a serious risk that you might become an " audiophile " somebody who constantly searches for the next hit, a new rush, splurging money on huge speakers, gold plated HDMI cable, 99.99% pure silver cables and 24 bit, 192 Khz Hi-definition sound.


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## GlacierNine (Dec 20, 2018)

MyTechAddiction said:


> Get the good speakers first, if you are pleased by the sound stop right there.Warning : there is a serious risk that you might become an " audiophile " somebody who constantly searches for the next hit, a new rush, splurging money on huge speakers, gold plated HDMI cable, 99.99% pure silver cables and 24 bit, 192 Khz Hi-definition sound.


To be fair, there is an opposite extreme to this.

Don't become someone that sees no value in well built and designed equipment solely because they're unable to tell the difference between quality and snakeoil. Of course PWB Electronics, Machina Dynamica and Black Ravioli are scams - But that doesn't mean a Schiit headphone amp or a set of nice Yamaha HS50's is a waste of money - or even extremely high end speakers, like Definitive Technology Mythos

To OP - BTW, What kind of room is this going in? If you have a lot of soft furnishings and a big space then you're pretty good for using speakers, but if you have hardwood floors, lots of reflective surfaces etc, then you'll likely find that speakers end up hamstrung, no matter how good they are, because of the amount of sound bouncing off of the rest of the room and fucking with you. If that's the case, I'd suggest that headphones are a much better idea than speakers


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## jboydgolfer (Dec 20, 2018)

I wouldn't bother with any sound cards.  It's a waste of cash that could go elsewhere


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## Frizz (Dec 20, 2018)

From what I understand;

- If you're purely gaming then focus on gear that will give you the best soundstage for better positional and more immersive atmospheric audio, this is where "gaming" sound cards may come in handy for virtual surround features and gaming specific features like the ASUS Sonic Radar Pro

- If you love to listen to music and just want good sound quality in general without a care for surround then External DAC (so that you don't ever have to buy one again) + Decent set of cans.


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## rtwjunkie (Dec 20, 2018)

It’s a subjective answer you are getting from whichever side as to whether soundcards are worth it.  

I think high end sound cards are worth it and still hold the edge, and always use them.  Just like some people say they can see the difference in frame rates and some can’t, the same thing applies to the richness and fidelity and boost levels of sound for some people hearing the difference.

Ultimately only you can decide if they are worth it.


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 20, 2018)

btarunr said:


> As someone who's owned legendary sound cards such as the Auzentech X-Meridian, SB XFi Xtreme Music, AudigyZ, etc., among several others throughout the 90s and 00s, I must admit that today's high-end motherboards have really caught up with ~£100-150 sound cards. Among motherboard vendors, GIGABYTE takes its onboard audio solutions most seriously. See if you can spend the extra £100 on a high-end GIGABYTE motherboard over what you originally planned, which comes with ESS Sabre DACs driving the main front channel, ALC1220VB pulling the other channels, user-replaceable OPAMPs, and pretty decent WIMA capacitors, EMI shielding, etc. I've built a machine with one of those boards, and they sound seriously good.



That may do that but their bios sucks


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## FreedomEclipse (Dec 20, 2018)

Providing you already have a good set of bookshelf speakers and headphones... get the Soundblaster X7. A lot of people down at headhifi praise this device

You can connect to it via USB like a USB soundcard and it can power speakers between 4-8ohms and you can even add a subwoofer to make it 2.1 if you wanted to.

On the other hand buy the cheapest Creative Sound blaster card you can with optical out that supports Dolby Digital Live and cruise ebay for AV Receivers that fit your within your price range. Yamaha, Pioneer, Dennon, Onkyo (though maybe not so much Onkyo) will bring movies and gaming to life - I already had a creative soundcard and bookshelf speakers so bought a pre-owned yamaha AVR for £100 a subwoofer for £160 though i bought that new from amazon as i couldnt be bothered to wait for good deals to pop up on ebay... Look to spending about £80 for a subwoofer... Factor in about £20-30 for cabling if you dont have it and youre golden.

^This is if you want to stick with 5.1 surround sound though... I already had 4 bookshelf speakers and the sound card so it wasnt a huge expense to go the route that i did. I used to have a set of Logitech Z5500s and my current setup totally destroys them.

2.1 is still good for movies and gaming though. or watch movies in 2.1 and game on headphones.


There are so many combinations to get your perfect setup


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## Tatty_One (Dec 20, 2018)

As someone who still uses a dedicated sound card, I see the value when doing a full system upgrade of paying that bit extra for a motherboard with a decent sound chip only today you don't really need to spend more.  My first though a few years back would have been to buy what I needed in terms of a motherboard in the budget/mid price range that also has decent overclocking abilities and if it comes with a lower end sound chip like an ALC887 then what the hell, buy a reasonable dedicated sound card if I felt I needed to, however today, with what's available in just mid ranged boards in terms of sound it just no longer makes sense, there are so many decently priced boards out there now with good sound, I mean, in the UK you can get a £100 motherboard with Realtek's ALC1220 for both Intel and AMD sockets, it's a no lose situation unless of course you are an audiophile where possible sound is the number 1 reason for buying a particular board.


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## GlacierNine (Dec 20, 2018)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Providing you already have a good set of bookshelf speakers and headphones... get the Soundblaster X7. A lot of people down at headhifi praise this device


Bear in mind that there are also people on Head-Fi that think they can hear the difference between WAV and FLAC, so maybe don't take their opinions too seriously.


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## FreedomEclipse (Dec 20, 2018)

GlacierNine said:


> Bear in mind that there are also people on Head-Fi that think they can hear the difference between WAV and FLAC, so maybe don't take their opinions too seriously.



external reviews are also very favorable


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## GlacierNine (Dec 20, 2018)

FreedomEclipse said:


> external reviews are also very favorable


And I'm not saying these products are bad, just to be wary of audio reviews in general. 

I listen to everything through a pair of Mordaunt Short Mezzo 2s, a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 and a Denon AVR3802. Headphones I have are AKG K550 and Grado SR80. 

I've auditioned systems costing 5 or so times this much, into the ten figures. There's definitely an improvement to be had.

But when it comes to reviews of audio equipment there's definitely one key factor that people fail to take into account - of course it has good reviews. Because EVERYTHING has good reviews in audio. Magazines are bought and paid for by the industry to sell product, and forums are full to bursting with either shills or the outright deluded.

There's definitely better and worse gear out there, but buyer beware - always try your hardest to sift through the bullshit and compare multiple options.


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## FreedomEclipse (Dec 20, 2018)

GlacierNine said:


> And I'm not saying these products are bad, just to be wary of audio reviews in general.
> 
> I listen to everything through a pair of Mordaunt Short Mezzo 2s, a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 and a Denon AVR3802. Headphones I have are AKG K550 and Grado SR80.
> 
> ...



I never take their opinions to heart but i want to see how a review sites review matches up with peoples opinions on headhifi just to find out more about the device itself. Everyone's hearing is different and personal preference to audio are different and where else better in the internet to go then a forum full of audio snobs?


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## GlacierNine (Dec 20, 2018)

FreedomEclipse said:


> I never take their opinions to heart but i want to see how a review sites review matches up with peoples opinions on headhifi just to find out more about the device itself. Everyone's hearing is different and personal preference to audio are different and where else better in the internet to go then a forum full of audio snobs?


I would argue "Almost anywhere else" because I find those people utterly insufferable - but in particular, the answer is "music production or musicians forums" - they still come with their share of hokum and witchcraft peddlers (just like tech forums do, despite the clear evidence tech sites provide for us to analyse) but there's definitely a much higher signal to noise ratio amongst people who are trying to produce music for other people to hear, than there is amongst people who are just trying to brag to each other about why their system is better, or justify whatever their latest purchase is.


Edit - there's also a much lower chance of people advising things based solely on their own preferences rather than your needs. On regular forums there are always those idiots who just want to hype the awful bass-heavy monster cans or subs they use to shake their house with trap beats. On a musicians forum, most people are after neutral sounding reference speakers or studio headphones that will help them translate their mix as accurately as possible over all possible speaker systems their audience might plat the music on. This invariably results in much less skewed and more realistic assessments of how things should sound in order to give the best reproduction of the original recordings a person is listening to.


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## EarthDog (Dec 20, 2018)

Hellfire said:


> So I am planning my new PC build, it's going to be a full build from scratch


We know.. this is like the 5th thread on your build. Didn't the staff already combine a couple of your threads here: https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/time-for-a-new-build-go-big-or-go-home.250119/

Didn't read anything but the first post....

Try out integrated audio before you go investing in anything else. In order to get the most out of any discrete sound card, you need solid speakers/cans as well.


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 20, 2018)

EarthDog said:


> We know.. this is like the 5th thread on your build.
> 
> Didn't read anything but the first post....
> 
> Try out integrated audio before you go investing in anything else. In order to get the most out of any discrete sound card, you need solid speakers/cans as well.



I run game sound through a card and Headset com through isj


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## EarthDog (Dec 20, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> I run game sound through a card and Headset com through isj


???????????????

Cool. I don't understand your point, however.


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## Liviu Cojocaru (Dec 20, 2018)

I have the ASUS Audigy DGX paired with Edifier 2000RB and the Logitech Z906 and I can say I am really happy with this combination, the integrated soundcard on my MB is trash


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## natr0n (Dec 20, 2018)

A system isnt a system without a decent sound card.

I use a stereo receiver with 4 bookshelf speakers.

Sound card is an sb x-fi.


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## GlacierNine (Dec 20, 2018)

natr0n said:


> A system isnt a system without a decent sound card.
> 
> I use a stereo receiver with 4 bookshelf speakers.
> 
> Sound card is an sb x-fi.


External DACs and audio interfaces would like a word with you.


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## natr0n (Dec 20, 2018)

GlacierNine said:


> External DACs and audio interfaces would like a word with you.



DACs and such are external sound cards basically. I said decent not internal. So statement can still apply.


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## Ferrum Master (Dec 20, 2018)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> ASUS Audigy DGX



WHAT?


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## sam_86314 (Dec 20, 2018)

I currently have a 7.1 receiver connected to my PC over optical. I have some Yamaha speakers connected to that. So I guess that means I have an external DAC.

Before that, I only used onboard audio and some Bose MediaMate speakers. I think the Bose Companion series are pretty much identical to those.


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## Hellfire (Dec 20, 2018)

EarthDog said:


> We know.. this is like the 5th thread on your build. Didn't the staff already combine a couple of your threads here: https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/time-for-a-new-build-go-big-or-go-home.250119/




Nope, hyperbole much?

Only threads I have created recently are as follows

- Dual sapphires / Power supply issue
- GPU-Z PCI bus error
- New build
- Cleaning tips
- Stan Lee
- Escape from Tarkov (game)
- Shadow tech (remote pc system)
- WCG thread
- New build
- FS thread of parts I'm selling
- Bathesda thread
- Linux.org thread
- Largest cases on the market topic
- Sound card suggestions.

(May have missed some but definitely not multiple threads being merged ;-) even kept my WC discussions contained in the build thread.


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## Liviu Cojocaru (Dec 20, 2018)

Ferrum Master said:


> WHAT?


) I was wondering when will people notice...it's Xonar obviously


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## EarthDog (Dec 20, 2018)

Hellfire said:


> Nope, hyperbole much?
> 
> Only threads I have created recently are as follows
> 
> ...


Sorry...the build thread felt like 5 threads in one. Lololol!

But this thread should really be in there since it's about that build.

Anyway... try it out first. Onboard audio has come a long way in recent years. Anything running the alc1220 codec and that has it's own audio bits, should please the vast majority of people.


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## Hellfire (Dec 20, 2018)

Hi Guys,

@EarthDog, I'll give you that, it was a bit of a bad/long thread, I've learnt from it)

Thanks for giving me some great thoughts and a lot to think about. I am definately happy to try on board sound card before investing money in this, Like I said I've lived with on board for ages and I've never had a problem.

Few bits of information I didn't add.

- Firstly, I want to try and get the best sound experience I can, while I can. I have progressive hearing loss (around 70-75% loss at present and use hearing aids). Don't know if that makes a difference with what is suggested. It may sound silly why someone who can hardly hear wants to look at good audio, but I want to enjoy what little time I have left, in 20 years I may have no hearing left

- Secondly, The room, It is my living room/office the PC will be located in, it's a corner desk, hard oak wood flooring with the only soft furnishings being a four person sofa, the rest are hard wood furnishings/tables and plastered walls.

- Finally, I currently use on board with a Logitech X540 set of speakers, (although no rear speakers due to no where to mount them in the corner desk. These speakers are going with my old PC to my son, Recommendations on new cans would be much appreciated, and like others have said, maybe this is where I should focus initially rather than the sound card itself.

the boards I've been looking at (Asus boards) offer this in terms of audio, which to me, means absolutely nothing.



> ROG SupremeFX 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC S1220
> - Impedance sense for front and rear headphone outputs
> - Supports : Jack-detection, Multi-streaming, Front Panel Jack-retasking
> - High quality 120 dB SNR stereo playback output and 113 dB SNR recording input
> ...


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## Brusfantomet (Dec 20, 2018)

With your room being that full of hard surfaces I would get some good headphones.

My personal favourite sound is Sennheiser, as they have low sibilance (hard s sounds).

For “sound card” I would get a Schiit modi 3. Use it as a external sound card over USB.

A Magni 3 would pare god with that, it would leave less than £200 of the original £400 budget.

 My first hit searching for HD650 uk was a shop selling them for £310, you might be able to get them cheaper with some knowledge of the uk market.

But my recommendation would be:

Schiit Modi 3
Schiit Magni 3
 Sennheiser HD650 

You could also save some money going for the HD599, it should be possible to find at the £200 mark


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## erocker (Dec 20, 2018)

For non-powered speakers, you're better off sending the signal off to a receiver/amplifier then off to your speakers. If you were doing this for headphones, a DAC or sound card would probably be preferred. 

I've tried onboard sound on 4 different current gen boards (2 high end/2 mid range) and generally sound quality isn't so bad, but amplification definitely is lacking.


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## mmxx (Dec 21, 2018)

DAC is better


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## micropage7 (Dec 22, 2018)

Hellfire said:


> the boards I've been looking at (Asus boards) offer this in terms of audio, which to me, means absolutely nothing.


maybe they process the sound better but i still prefer something with opamp


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## AlejoZ (Jun 3, 2019)

I just ditch my SBZ and got one of these DAC's: Topping D30 amazing sound no regrets


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## Metroid (Jun 3, 2019)

sound cards occupy a pcie slot and that may be bad depending on how your computer is set up. An external dac and amp would be better, check this out https://www.schiit.com/products/vali-1

Also an external dac amp can be taken anywhere, soundcard needs a computer.


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## Jetster (Jun 3, 2019)

It all depends on your budget. Sound is more complex than graphics and many options are available. Internal, external, onboard, digital receiver, USB DAC. For $160 you could just get a nice 2.1 speakers set and run onboard sound or a card. When you start looking at USB DAC or a Digital receiver then it get expensive quick. I just sold my Yamaha RX 571 for $100. Switch to a Samsung sound bar I can yell at with Alexa

I have a set of Klipsch B20 book shelf speakers just sitting


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jun 3, 2019)

AlejoZ said:


> I just ditch my SBZ and got one of these DAC's: Topping D30 amazing sound no regrets
> 
> View attachment 124172



I'm using a Topping VX2 to 2x TEAC small speakers. The sound quality is very good.


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## Arkeron (Jun 3, 2019)

The most important  piece of a sound system is the speakers.
Get a board with a alc1220  and invest in the best speakers that are in your budget. 
Add a DAC down the road if you want to upgrade.


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## erixx (Jun 3, 2019)

I use a "gamer" dac: Sennheiser GSX 1000 (Sennheiser, yes, not Suzuki hahahaha).
It's handy for profile and output switching, but it adds more stuff on the desk and more cables...


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## John Naylor (Jun 3, 2019)

Back in ALC 1150 days, Asus stated that theor on board solutions were equivalent to their $90 sound cards.  With ALC 1220, I'd say a comparable card might be $125 or more. However, I would avoid any MoBo with < ALC 1220.


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## jallenlabs (Jun 3, 2019)

I went with a Shiit DAC Modi.  Less noise and interference with an outboard DAC.


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## delshay (Jun 3, 2019)

I have a external portable DAC (Chord Hugo) but the internal battery is dead, needs replacement.


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## CityCultivator (Jun 3, 2019)

delshay said:


> I have a external portable DAC (Chord Hugo) but the internal battery is dead, needs replacement.


Separate thread.


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## delshay (Jun 3, 2019)

CityCultivator said:


> Separate thread.



It comes with PC software drivers on a USB stick, so it's in the correct thread. You hook it to an external AMP or just plug your headphone direct into the unit.

connection to PC is done via USB/Optical Fibre or Bluetooth.


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## Ferrum Master (Jun 3, 2019)

delshay said:


> It comes with PC software drivers on a USB stick, so it's in the correct thread. You hook it to an external AMP or just plug your headphone direct into the unit.



It was meant about repairing them. And it has two battery cells.


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## CityCultivator (Jun 3, 2019)

delshay said:


> It comes with PC software drivers on a USB stick, so it's in the correct thread. You hook it to an external AMP or just plug your headphone direct into the unit.


What battery issue are you talking about?


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## delshay (Jun 3, 2019)

CityCultivator said:


> What battery issue are you talking about?



I'v never open it up. I think the battery is solder inside the unit, but this is just a guess as I think what i'm suppose to do is sent it back the Chord company for new battery. It's a very expensive unit & it is sealed.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jun 3, 2019)

delshay said:


> I'v never open it up. I think the battery is solder inside the unit, but this is just a guess as I think what i'm suppose to do is sent it back the Chord company for new battery. It's a very expensive unit & it is sealed.



That is a very nice DAC. Here is the battery you need for it-
https://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz...-ab..1.24.2002...0i131k1j0i10k1.0.3OHZVu87kHs


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## delshay (Jun 4, 2019)

tigger said:


> That is a very nice DAC. Here is the battery you need for it-
> https://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1C2CHBF_en-GBGB805&source=hp&ei=dovQW9LgKNKOlwS-ho2IDg&btnG=Search&q=Li-Ion+battery+1S1P+ICR18650-22F+++PCM+(8.14Wh)+UN38.3+3.7V+2.2Ah&oq=samsung+galaxy+s7+exynos+&gs_l=psy-ab.1.8.0l4j0i22i30k1l6.249617.259227.0.267469.25.17.0.8.8.0.385.1895.9j6j0j1.16.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..1.24.2002...0i131k1j0i10k1.0.3OHZVu87kHs



Thanks.

Just check the unit. It has ten tiny hex screws or bolts. Hard to tell until one is removed.


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## Infekto (Feb 22, 2020)

Hello. I got mother board gigabyte ga-970a-ds3p with stock audio and windows 10 64bit. Using almost year and start to think-something is missing in sound. Maybe upgrade audio to Creative sound blaster z card? Just for music listening, video watching. Nothing more.


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## CityCultivator (Feb 22, 2020)

Infekto said:


> Hello. I got mother board gigabyte ga-970a-ds3p with stock audio and windows 10 64bit. Using almost year and start to think-something is missing in sound. Maybe upgrade audio to Creative sound blaster z card? Just for music listening, video watching. Nothing more.


Current setup? Speakers /headphones?
Create separate thread for your case.


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## Infekto (Feb 22, 2020)

Current is sony ta-f550es amplifier and two http://radiopagajiba.lv/RRR/acoustic/S-90.htm 4 ohms. Simple stereo sistem


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## CityCultivator (Feb 22, 2020)

Infekto said:


> Current is sony ta-f550es amplifier and two http://radiopagajiba.lv/RRR/acoustic/S-90.htm 4 ohms. Simple stereo sistem


Create separate thread for your case.


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## Infekto (Feb 22, 2020)

I did it in another adress


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## CityCultivator (Feb 23, 2020)

Infekto said:


> I did it in another adress


"adress"?


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## [S] (Mar 4, 2020)

For gaming dont use a soundcard, it produces latency. For best soundquality use a avr with hdmi connection. Also dont use toslink.


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 4, 2020)

[S] said:


> For gaming dont use a soundcard, it produces latency.



Funny, because people have been using sound cards for gaming since the 80s. 1990-2006 were probably the best years for that because of hardware acceleration in microsoft Operating systems. Gaming audio was extremely big business. These days, its pretty much dead. There is no real drive to release sound cards (let alone speakers. Remember when Creative used to make their own gaming speakers? They still do but nobody wants to buy them) for gaming unless companies are lying or nostalgia baiting. There hasnt been anything that replaced Hardware Acceleration/Accelerated Audio technologies and since the whole gimmick of having a creative card was EAX support - that died along with Hardware Acceleration.

But i digress. Latency is everywhere. Your mouse has latency. Your monitor has latency. Even keyboards have latency. Every input device has latency. But its at such low levels that its not even worth talking about. The only time i had serious latency issues when i was running a Intel PIII 500mhz with a ATi 9600SE trying to play DeusEx (the first one) in over the top settings then what my PC could handle. Id move the mouse to the right and the crosshair would follow about 10 seconds later.... This was some 20 years ago.

Sometimes Xonar soundcards create a lot of latency if you have their EAX emulation turned on and are playing an EAX title. Asus Xonar soundcards never did well with EAX on and thats why i ditched them after having a DX2 & STX for many years. Asus's drivers were also pretty damn bad and there was no real direct support from Asus - only user to user support on their forums unless you file a support ticket with them.


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## [S] (Mar 4, 2020)

Take a look at my thread: https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...-5-1-audio-out-and-the-modded-drivers.264461/
Latency is everywhere is correct. We are talking about noticeable latency. 
Nowadays is a different time and we look different at many aspects especially in the gaming world. If one part gets better (input lag) we get picky on the other parts since we want a perfect experience. 
So to say there is input lag, display latency and also audio latency in the same way - but harder to notice. It will never be perfect, but perfect enough for the human senses.


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## Chomiq (Mar 4, 2020)

Stop necroposting.


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## [S] (Mar 4, 2020)

Tell you what, my intention is not to advertise - i want to share and not to rewrite my self.


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