# Phanteks T30-120 Fan



## VSG (Aug 12, 2021)

Phanteks' take on the ultimate PC fan is finally out! The T30-120 is a 30-mm thick fan that has a feature set to make many others blush, including the use of LCP blades and frames, Sunon's magnetic levitation bearing, three operating modes for different use cases, and fantastic performance throughout.

*Show full review*


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## nguyen (Aug 12, 2021)

Wow I have always been a fan of Phanteks F120MP, now this new 120mm fan even beat the current king Noctua NF-A12x25 at all RPM in noise normalized and performance? and it even go up to 3000rpm? I'm sold, looking to buy them in my new build.


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## dicktracy (Aug 12, 2021)

Doesn’t need ugly brown color either. Watch how Noctua delays their Chromax version again to 2022


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## FreedomEclipse (Aug 12, 2021)

Thermaltake Toughfan 12 should really be on the comparison chart imo... Though prices for them seem stupidly inflated atm. They were supposed to be a cheap alternative to Noctua NF-A12's


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## sector-z (Aug 12, 2021)

Cmon VSG this fan are rated for 3000RPM and no data on radiator at 3000RPM ???? 

At least you should have included a versus against the Noctua 3000 RPM


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## ZoneDymo (Aug 12, 2021)

See this is cool, sure its expensive but finally something that actually makes things better, not just another fan or another cooler


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## VSG (Aug 12, 2021)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Thermaltake Toughfan 12 should really be on the comparison chart imo... Though prices for them seem stupidly inflated atm. They were supposed to be a cheap alternative to Noctua NF-A12's


It's being tested right now, so soon enough.



sector-z said:


> Cmon VSG this fan are rated for 3000RPM and no data on radiator at 3000RPM ????
> 
> At least you should have included a versus against the Noctua 3000 RPM


Can't help it with previous fan testing limited to 1500 RPM, which hasn't been exceeded much for DIY watercooling imo. I don't have the Noctua IPPC fans here anymore either, had to cut down my collection big time as part of the move from the US to the UK.


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## nguyen (Aug 12, 2021)

VSG said:


> Can't help it with previous fan testing limited to 1500 RPM, which hasn't been exceeded much for DIY watercooling imo. I don't have the Noctua IPPC fans here anymore either, had to cut down my collection big time as part of the move from the US to the UK.



Can you try putting 3 of them as bottom exhaust and have your PC fly off the desk at 3000rpm


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## MDWiley (Aug 12, 2021)

Man, this fan ticks all the boxes! Really impressive work from Phanteks. It’s also refreshing to see products with a focus on real world performance, like with dust filters and radiators. I hope they have a 140mm version coming soon.


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## sector-z (Aug 12, 2021)

VSG said:


> It's being tested right now, so soon enough.
> 
> 
> Can't help it with previous fan testing limited to 1500 RPM, which hasn't been exceeded much for watercooling imo. I don't have the Noctua IPPC fans here anymore either, had to cut down my collection big time as part of the move from the US to the UK.


Ok because in USA we use much higher RPM then EU people 1500 is like nothing here .

Here 3000RPM fan or that can do it, for your review next time if you can. No need 200 rpm step. 2000/2500/3000 is good and standard I think. On top of that, you can all use them for lower RPM compare too 

Phanteks T30-120
Iceberg Thermal IceGALE Xtra 
NF-F12 INDUSTRIALPPC-3000 PWM
EK Water Blocks EK-Furious Vardar
ENERMAX D.F. STORM 3500RPM
Delta Electronics AFC1212D-PWM
Gentle Typhoon D1225C12GT3000-P
TOUGHFAN 12 Turbo High Static 2500RPM*


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## Mistral (Aug 12, 2021)

Please, find some good old Gentle Typhoons to throw in the comparison....


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## SomeOne99h (Aug 12, 2021)

I have a pretty dumb question: Can I use these as case fans?


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## VSG (Aug 12, 2021)

SomeOne99h said:


> I have a pretty dumb question: Can I use these as case fans?


Not a dumb question at all. Yes, you can use them as case fans with the included self-tapping screws. You can choose to operate between the Hybrid or Performance modes depending on your control preference as well as the case airflow design in mind.


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## Absolution (Aug 12, 2021)

Will you do a review on Arctics P12s?


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## VSG (Aug 12, 2021)

Absolution said:


> Will you do a review on Arctics P12s?


Hah I was just replying to someone on Discord about this very thing. I don't have an Arctic contact at this point, so it is unlikely. I will try again later this year when I have some spare time (hopefully).


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## Oberon (Aug 12, 2021)

That feeling when you don't have 5 mm of extra space after planning out a build with two EK XE's and NF-A12x25s 

These look really fantastic! What the Meltemi should have been all along.


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## GabrielLP14 (Aug 12, 2021)

Wow i really liked their performance, by the way, amazing tests @VSG congrats


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## GorbazTheDragon (Aug 12, 2021)

Solid fans, the extra thickness helps A LOT... I realised this when shopping around for some fans a while back, the delta 38mm fans with stators blow the socks off anything 25mm...

Unfortunately *good 140mm fans are still MIA *if you exclude the Arctic P14s... Those are good but definitely have flaws.



Mistral said:


> Please, find some good old Gentle Typhoons to throw in the comparison....


GTs are overrated crap from a decade ago, the bearings are complete garbage.


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## Chrispy_ (Aug 12, 2021)

Launch day review;
Nice.

Noise-normalised charts;
Nice.

This T30 fan;
Nice.


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## LocutusH (Aug 12, 2021)

GorbazTheDragon said:


> Solid fans, the extra thickness helps A LOT... I realised this when shopping around for some fans a while back, the delta 38mm fans with stators blow the socks off anything 25mm...
> 
> Unfortunately *good 140mm fans are still MIA *if you exclude the Arctic P14s... Those are good but definitely have flaws.
> 
> ...



NB Eloops are available in 140mm. No need to search for better ones. Even RGB versions. I am using 5 of them.


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## GorbazTheDragon (Aug 12, 2021)

Eloops are the most overrated fans in the world   

Even more overrated than GTs


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## FreedomEclipse (Aug 12, 2021)

GorbazTheDragon said:


> Solid fans, the extra thickness helps A LOT... I realised this when shopping around for some fans a while back, the delta 38mm fans with stators blow the socks off anything 25mm...



Yeah. They will also blow the socks off your ear drums beyond any 25mm.


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## mechtech (Aug 12, 2021)

What no mention of the fan affinity laws?

Also, instead of shopping at PC shops for fans, if you want good fans/selection sometimes its better to go to an electric/electronics wholesaler and buy 
-sunon
-panasonic panaflos
-sanyo denke
-deltas
-nidec
-Adda

etc etc



			https://www.newark.com/w/c/cooling-thermal-management/fans-blowers/dc-axial-fans?supply-voltage-vdc=12v&fan-frame-size=119mm|120mm


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## GorbazTheDragon (Aug 12, 2021)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Yeah. They will also blow the socks off your ear drums beyond any 25mm.


Yup, but different use case


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## P4-630 (Aug 12, 2021)

Interesting, I might buy these instead of noctua fans in the future.


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## VSG (Aug 12, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> Interesting, I might buy these instead of noctua fans in the future.


Can't go wrong with either option, but also the NF-A12x25 Chromax will release sometime to further complicate things.


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## LocutusH (Aug 12, 2021)

GorbazTheDragon said:


> Eloops are the most overrated fans in the world
> 
> Even more overrated than GTs


Still doesnt make it true, that good 140mm fans are MIA.


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## gaseosx (Aug 12, 2021)

How is the radiator fitment? I have Toughfan 12's and fitment wise they are horrible, lots of holes for leakage even with a foam gasket on the radiator. On my next build I was just going to use A12x25's due to the included rubber gasket but this looks like a much better fan.


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## VSG (Aug 12, 2021)

gaseosx said:


> How is the radiator fitment? I have Toughfan 12's and fitment wise they are horrible, lots of holes for leakage even with a foam gasket on the radiator. On my next build I was just going to use A12x25's due to the included rubber gasket but this looks like a much better fan.


Hah I know what you mean, I am looking at the Toughfan 12 on the radiator right now. This one isn't bad courtesy the rubber dampening pads on the corners that also allow for some leeway in the uniformity of installation pressures at each corner, but the great equalizer is that massive central hub anyway. Running these in pull is recommended.


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## Lnxepique (Aug 12, 2021)

Should I swap my Toughfan 12s for these?  Eager for the comparison! My NR200P is fully outfitted with them ^^


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## VSG (Aug 12, 2021)

Lnxepique said:


> Should I swap my Toughfan 12s for these?  Eager for the comparison! My NR200P is fully outfitted with them ^^


Nah, not worth it even for decent performance fans and that's a pretty good set you already have.


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## GorbazTheDragon (Aug 12, 2021)

LocutusH said:


> Still doesnt make it true, that good 140mm fans are MIA.


What are you trying to say? Eloops are not good fans and it's really absurd that people still believe they are good.

They are borderline unusable if you have even remotely functioning hearing.


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## VSG (Aug 12, 2021)

GorbazTheDragon said:


> What are you trying to say? Eloops are not good fans and it's really absurd that people still believe they are good.
> 
> They are borderline unusable if you have even remotely functioning hearing.


lol show me on the doll where Noiseblocker hurt you


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## GorbazTheDragon (Aug 12, 2021)

Sorry I have R9 290 trauma


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## robal (Aug 12, 2021)

Mistral said:


> Please, find some good old Gentle Typhoons to throw in the comparison....


Sigh.. You strike a nostalgia tune here.  They have been in my loop for almost 10 years without any trouble.
I think Gentle Typhoons were great for static pressure and tightly finned, thick rads.
T30-120 seems like a great all-rounder. If it had ARGB, that would be definitely the choice for my next build.


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## VSG (Aug 12, 2021)

Mistral said:


> Please, find some good old Gentle Typhoons to throw in the comparison....





robal said:


> Sigh.. You strike a nostalgia tune here.  They have been in my loop for almost 10 years without any trouble.
> I think Gentle Typhoons were great for static pressure and tightly finned, thick rads.
> T30-120 seems like a great all-rounder. If it had ARGB, that would be definitely the choice for my next build.


The Darkside GTs in the review comparisons are Gentle Typhoons.


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## Muaadib (Aug 12, 2021)

Awesome review! would love if you can add the P12 to the list, its very popular with budget builds and has decent performance too.


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## VSG (Aug 12, 2021)

Muaadib said:


> Awesome review! would love if you can add the P12 to the list, its very popular with budget builds and has decent performance too.


Already addressed here: https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/phanteks-t30-120-fan.285366/#post-4582402


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## Dr_b_ (Aug 12, 2021)

These look really great, and check a bunch of boxes, performance, and performance modes, daisy chaining support, and they are black.  When are these things going to be available?


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## Operandi (Aug 12, 2021)

mechtech said:


> What no mention of the fan affinity laws?
> 
> Also, instead of shopping at PC shops for fans, if you want good fans/selection sometimes its better to go to an electric/electronics wholesaler and buy
> -sunon
> ...


Thats what I do.  If you see a good fan in the consumer space, a really good one anyway its made by one of those companies anyway.  I just wish one of them would release their own 140mm to the wholesaler market.


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## VSG (Aug 12, 2021)

Dr_b_ said:


> These look really great, and check a bunch of boxes, performance, and performance modes, daisy chaining support, and they are black.  When are these things going to be available?


Right now: https://www.phanteksusa.com/collections/newsletter/products/phanteks-t30-120-fans


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## maxfly (Aug 13, 2021)

Great job VSG!
 Its about time someone truly put some pressure on noctuas ippc line up and these seem to be doing just that. Definitely looking forward to a head to head at some point. Thats obviously what phanteks aim was with these beasts. Look out ippc 2000 and 3000, phanteks is comin for ya! If only these came out two years ago when i bought all off my ippc 2000 120/140mm fans with matching phantek halos! 
Almost forgot, Sunon is a name i haven't heard in a looooong time! Ive got a box full of 80 and 92mm finger decapitators. Loved those badboys but they were loud. Every last one still works like a charm and they are at least 15 years old. If Sunon still cranks out quality these t30s should be keepers.

Whens the last time you were excited about a fan?


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## Crackong (Aug 13, 2021)

May I ask a question ?

( My calculation might be wrong, Please correct me if I am )

Isn't dBA a _logarithmic_ unit and CFM not a _logarithmic_ unit ?
Dividing those isn't a fair comparison ?

For example for the 750rpm chart
A12x25 19.8CFM 27.2dBA
T30       20.6CFM 27.9dBA

-Noise normalized on numbers only-
A12x25  = 19.8/27.2 = 0.7279
T30        = 20.6/27.9 = 0.7383


If Convert dB back to sound pressure / sound intensity
27.2db = 0.000458174 Pa = 5.248075e-10 W/m2
27.9db = 0.000496627 Pa = 6.16595e-10 W/m2

Put the zeros away

in the case of sound pressure
19.8 / 458174 = 4.32 e-5
20.6 / 496627 = 4.15 e-5

in the case of sound intensity
19.8 / 5.248075 = 3.77
20.6 / 6.16595   = 3.34

In both cases
The A12x25 had a higher value.
So the A12x25 generates more CFM with less sound pressure/sound intensity


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## erocker (Aug 13, 2021)

I'm ready to sacrifice the RGB fans up top in my case for these.


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## usiname (Aug 13, 2021)

Crackong said:


> May I ask a question ?
> 
> ( My calculation might be wrong, Please correct me if I am )
> 
> ...


But the more CFM you have, the more noise, if you compare both fans with different speed:
T30        1000RPM 30.6db    26 CFM
A 12x25 1250RPM 32.8db 28.9 CFM
T30 is much better

Also at 1000RPM to 1250RPM you gain:
A 12x25
24.2->28.9    4.7CFM
29.1->32.8    3.7db

T30
26->30.9      4.9CFM
30.6->34.1   3.5db

so the comparasion depend and I think the best comparasion will be when both are equal at CFM or db and not only at one speed, but wide range of speeds

edit: if we get the diff:
4.7 / 2.6 =1.8
3.7/2.6 =1.42
->
24.2+1.8 = 26
29.1+1.42 = 30.5

noctua is better theoretically with 0.1db, but with different speeds we will get different results, I am lazy to do this for each speed


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## Crackong (Aug 13, 2021)

usiname said:


> But the more CFM you have, the more noise, if you compare both fans with different speed:
> T30        1000RPM 30.6db    26 CFM
> A 12x25 1250RPM 32.8db 28.9 CFM
> T30 is much better
> ...


I am pretty sure you might have misunderstood my post.

Since dB is a _logarithmic_ unit , it is not 1 to 1 compare to non-_logarithmic_ units
For example a 3dB difference would mean a 2x sound intensity, and a 60dB difference would mean a million times of sound intensity

A12x25 going from 29.1dB to 32.8dB is a sound pressure from 0.000570204 Pa to 0.000873032 Pa, or Sound intensity from 8.128305e-10 to 1.9054607e-9
T30       going from 30.6dB to 34.1dB is a sound pressure from 0.000677688 Pa to 0.001013981 Pa, or Sound intensity from 1.1481536e-9 to 2.5703958e-9

You can tell by the difference in those numbers
If we shave the zeros off
A12x25 needs 3.03 unit increase in sound pressure, and 1.09 unit increase in Sound intensity to generate 4.7CFM
T30       needs 3.37 unit increase in sound pressure, and 1.42 unit increase in Sound intensity to generate 4.9CFM

Divided CFM with those numbers,
A12x25 gets 1.55 and 4.31
T30       gets 1.45 and 3.45

So if comparison between the numbers you have chosen.
The A12x25 generates more CFM per unit of  sound pressure/ Sound intensity  increase.


( I am not an expert, please point out if I made some mistake in calculations, Thanks)


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## usiname (Aug 13, 2021)

Crackong said:


> ...
> 
> So if comparison between the numbers you have chosen.
> The A12x25 generates more CFM per unit of  sound pressure/ Sound intensity  increase.
> ...


I am not also, but I think scale the resutls to get same CFM or db is better comparasion, because you don't need to compare the fans at different CFM and db

i made same scale for 1250->1500 and at ~1342RPM noctua will lose to T30 at 1250RPM. Since T30 scale better with higher RPMs and at 1250RPM is already better I think at 1500-3000 T30 will gain more advantage, while noctua will be better in 750-1000.

T30 generate 0.1 db more with 1.1 CFM at 1250->1500RPM

1250RPM to 1500RPM:
A12x25
28.9->34.4 5.5CFM
32.8->36.4 3.6db

T30
30.9->37.5 6.6CFM
34.1->37.8 3.7db

And when we increase the speed of A12x25 from 1250 with 92RPM ->
250/2.7 = 92.6
5.5/2.7 =2.03
3.6/2.7 = 1.33

T30 1250RPM
30.9CFM
34.1db

A12x25 1342RPM
30.93CFM
34.13db


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## Hossein Almet (Aug 13, 2021)

I'll wipe the smile off the faces of the arrogant Noctua engineers.


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## Ferrum Master (Aug 13, 2021)

You should add no RGB BS as a pro in the conclusion.

Do they have motor noise at low RPM? Ticking or other sort of harmonics besides the ones that are caused by blades. For example like Vardars do. Typhoons at low RPM has it too, but is a bearable hum like coming form a V8 exactly as you add RPM you can hear the motor struggling.


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## Crackong (Aug 13, 2021)

usiname said:


> I am not also, but I think scale the resutls to get same CFM or db is better comparasion, because you don't need to compare the fans at different CFM and db
> 
> i made same scale for 1250->1500 and at ~1342RPM noctua will lose to T30 at 1250RPM. Since T30 scale better with higher RPMs and at 1250RPM is already better I think at 1500-3000 T30 will gain more advantage, while noctua will be better in 750-1000.
> 
> ...



I mean
Because dB is a _*logarithmic*_ unit.
Same amount of difference of dB does not mean same amount of difference in sound energy

32 dB to 36dB
34 dB to 38dB
are both 4dB difference.
But they are not the same amount of difference in sound energy.
34dB to 38dB is a much greater difference.


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## Ferrum Master (Aug 13, 2021)

Crackong said:


> I mean
> Because dB is a _*logarithmic*_ unit.
> Same amount of difference of dB does not mean same amount of difference in sound energy
> 
> ...



It is amusing that you have to teach basic elementary school topics to an adult sometimes here 


3dB is two times louder. Just remember that rule peps. Imagine as greater voltage swing. It actually math wise correlates. 

And it is because we are not static, human beings and our perception is not linear. Same as our vision is not limited to constant 24Hz.


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## Crackong (Aug 13, 2021)

Ferrum Master said:


> It is amusing that you have to teach basic elementary school topics to an adult sometimes here
> 
> 
> 3dB is two times louder. Just remember that rule peps. Imagine as greater voltage swing. It actually math wise correlates.
> ...



Sometimes even tech companies made those mistakes.
For examples Thermaltake's 20% cooler ram temperature claim in their product review......


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## usiname (Aug 13, 2021)

Ferrum Master said:


> It is amusing that you have to teach basic elementary school topics to an adult sometimes here
> 
> 
> 3dB is two times louder. Just remember that rule peps. Imagine as greater voltage swing. It actually math wise correlates.
> ...


Its amusing that you forget that not only T30 increase its noise, but also A12x25 . My point is valid, at higher speed T30 gain advantage over A12x25, prove me wrong if you can


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## Ferrum Master (Aug 13, 2021)

Crackong said:


> Sometimes even tech companies made those mistakes.
> For examples Thermaltake's 20% cooler ram temperature claim in their product review......



Oh... that reminds me of the Chinglish issues they have.

But there are brute mistakes, just like surfing ali 




usiname said:


> Its amusing that you forget that not only T30 increase its noise, but also A12x25 . My point is valid, at higher speed T30 gain advantage over A12x25, prove me wrong if you can



It is more complicated than that. The measured noise is averaged in between harmonics. The blade design dictates it. Not the size. It could be anything. Under certain RPM second and other harmonics much higher can rise up and down. Aerodynamics isn't my field, that's for aviation guys.


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## usiname (Aug 13, 2021)

Ferrum Master said:


> It is more complicated than that. The measured noise is averaged in between harmonics. The blade design dictates it. Not the size. It could be anything. Under certain RPM second and other harmonics much higher can rise up and down. Aerodynamics isn't my field, that's for aviation guys.


We have constant ambience here and with this conditions as I said T30 gain advantage with higher RPM, of course with different ambience we will have different results, but for this ceratain situation I am right. I said that comparing fans at different speed with 4 different variables is not good idea and when we have equal CFM or db we can get the best results. As I said, prove me wrong, instead to spend your time to insult me.


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## VSG (Aug 13, 2021)

Dividing CFM and dBA isn't completely logical yes, it is mentioned as much in the review. But it was something others had requested as a visual means to grasp both results collectively, no more.


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## Ferrum Master (Aug 13, 2021)

usiname said:


> We have constant ambience here and with this conditions as I said T30 gain advantage with higher RPM



I've said why it is not granted actually too. It could be a complete opposite exactly because of blade design.


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## usiname (Aug 13, 2021)

Ferrum Master said:


> I've said why it is not granted actually too. It could be a complete opposite exactly because of blade design.


What the blade design have to do here? We have same ambiece, two fans and different speeds. My point is that T30 increase its efficiency with higher speed compared to A12x25 and you start to speak for possible factors like blades and temperatures that COULD in a certain situation change the result. So you admit I'm right, thank you. If you can't support your theories with real tests of T30 and A12x25 in different temperatures, humidity or something else why you keep arguing?


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## Crackong (Aug 13, 2021)

VSG said:


> Dividing CFM and dBA isn't completely logical yes, it is mentioned as much in the review. But it was something others had requested as a visual means to grasp both results collectively, no more.



Thanks for clarifying.


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## Memmento Mori (Aug 13, 2021)

Very nice reading and well done review 

Is there any chance to have an review and comparison with ThermalRight fans (TL-C12 PRO, TL-D14X, TL-C14X)? Always seeing news here about their coolers but no reviews at all.... Or I'm missing something?


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## VSG (Aug 13, 2021)

Memmento Mori said:


> Very nice reading and well done review
> 
> Is there any chance to have an review and comparison with ThermalRight fans (TL-C12 PRO, TL-D14X, TL-C14X)? Always seeing news here about their coolers but no reviews at all.... Or I'm missing something?


Thermalright has zero marketing presence, so not much I can do. I did have the TY-143SQ in fan reviews until this one, and removed it because it's another of the 140 mm fans with 120 mm fan hole spacing: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/corsair-icue-sp120-rgb-elite-fan/5.html


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## Dredi (Aug 13, 2021)

VSG said:


> Dividing CFM and dBA isn't completely logical yes, it is mentioned as much in the review. But it was something others had requested as a visual means to grasp both results collectively, no more.


A better way would be to plot the existing db/cfm data (on a curve) and then interpolate the cfm’s for a fixed db value, and finally compare those against each other. This can be achieved with the data you already have gathered, you’d just need to make a script for plotting the measurements and selecting interpolated values for different db values.

even better would be to just scrap the whole ”performance at a given rpm” thinking, as it serves no purpose. People are always interested in either just max performance, or performance at a given noise level.


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## VSG (Aug 13, 2021)

Dredi said:


> even better would be to just scrap the whole ”performance at a given rpm” thinking, as it serves no purpose. People are always interested in either just max performance, or performance at a given noise level.


That's what I was going with thus far, but there is no one solution which will please everyone without taking up immense amounts of my time. I'll try this out for a couple of other reviews and explictly mention it is not very accurate, and then let the horde decide.


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## Dredi (Aug 13, 2021)

VSG said:


> That's what I was going with thus far, but there is no one solution which will please everyone without taking up immense amounts of my time. I'll try this out for a couple of other reviews and explictly mention it is not very accurate, and then let the horde decide.


I was just trying to help you find the best way to use the data you have gathered.

Here is a concrete example of what I meant, comparing the new contender vs. NF A12x25:



In the article you state "Regardless, Phanteks *obviously *has done what many others have tried by deposing the Noctua NF-A12x25 from its throne after a 3-year reign.", which is simply not correct.
As seen from the CFM vs. dB(A) table above, constructed from the very same data you collected (there is a slight chance that I messed up when copying the data, please verify), it is clear that this is (at most) a tie, rather than an _obvious _win for phanteks.
at 27-30 dB noctua wins.
at 31-35 dB it's a tie.
at 36+ dB phanteks wins.


This is why you simply cannot divide CFM by dB(A) and call it a day.


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## VSG (Aug 13, 2021)

Dredi said:


> I was just trying to help you find the best way to use the data you have gathered.
> 
> Here is a concrete example of what I meant, comparing the new contender vs. NF A12x25:
> View attachment 212397
> ...


There are plenty of other things in my books in taking the throne, not just CFM and noise. I mention how the minimal sample variation and the excellent RPM response with three modes got me more excited than the actual performance. That statement I made was at the end of all the testing, and I stand by it.


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## Dredi (Aug 13, 2021)

VSG said:


> That statement I made was at the end of all the testing, and I stand by it.


I just assumed that it was relative to the 'noise normalized results', as it was written on that page. Anyway, I'd at least move that mention to the last page, and use a better way to display the results on the 'noise normalized results' page, as the current one gives explicitly wrong results (showing that phanteks would perform better for CFM/noise on low-mid rpm's).

Also, this mention in the conclusion table is a bit misleading, considering the plotted CFM vs. dB above: "Best-tested fan from a noise-normalized basis". There is also the word "outperformed" in the comparison to the noctua. While that is true at high noise levels, it should be said in that context and not as an all encompassing statement.

Is it a very good fan at mid to high noise levels? Yes.
Does it beat noctua at low to mid noise levels? a definite No.


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## mechtech (Aug 13, 2021)

sector-z said:


> Ok because in USA we use much higher RPM then EU people 1500 is like nothing here .
> 
> Here 3000RPM fan or that can do it, for your review next time if you can. No need 200 rpm step. 2000/2500/3000 is good and standard I think. On top of that, you can all use them for lower RPM compare too
> 
> ...


Lol I have old 900rpm scythes in my pc that idle around 450rpm.   Silence is golden.


----------



## SP33DST3R (Aug 13, 2021)

Dredi said:


> I just assumed that it was relative to the 'noise normalized results', as it was written on that page. Anyway, I'd at least move that mention to the last page, and use a better way to display the results on the 'noise normalized results' page, as the current one gives explicitly wrong results (showing that phanteks would perform better for CFM/noise on low-mid rpm's).
> 
> Also, this mention in the conclusion table is a bit misleading, considering the plotted CFM vs. dB above: "Best-tested fan from a noise-normalized basis". There is also the word "outperformed" in the comparison to the noctua. While that is true at high noise levels, it should be said in that context and not as an all encompassing statement.
> 
> ...


If you're looking for noise-normalized results, Tech buyer's guru also did testings with the T30 vs A12 and the results showing the T30 is doing better.


----------



## SN2716057 (Aug 13, 2021)

Nice. Now bring out a 3-pin variant and lower the cost by a lot. I won't ask for much more


----------



## nguyen (Aug 13, 2021)

Well from this review the Phanteks fan does beat out Noctua NF-A12 by an appreciable margin at low speeds and almost tie at 2000RPM, however the Phanteks can go to 3000RPM for even higher performance










TL;DR at 1200-1250RPM noise normalized, Phantek beat Notua by 2-3C coolant temp, 1C difference at ~1600RPM and <0.5C difference at ~2000RPM, going full blast from 2000 to 3000rpm the Phantek can lower coolant temp by another 2C. Phanteks T30-120 is just perfect for all usage scenario.


----------



## sector-z (Aug 13, 2021)

mechtech said:


> Lol I have old 900rpm scythes in my pc that idle around 450rpm.   Silence is golden.


Yes but your cooling potentiel is very shitty with that. That Phantek fan are really not for the same type of people like you. But more for High FPI Rad 20/30 Rad and Heavy OC PC or Hot ambiant temps country


----------



## Dredi (Aug 13, 2021)

SP33DST3R said:


> If you're looking for noise-normalized results, Tech buyer's guru also did testings with the T30 vs A12 and the results showing the T30 is doing better.





nguyen said:


> Well from this review the Phanteks fan does beat out Noctua NF-A12 by an appreciable margin at low speeds and almost tie at 2000RPM, however the Phanteks can go to 3000RPM for even higher performance
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, surprising to have such different results to the ones @VSG got here. Of course noise measurements are difficult and results may wary. I'd imagine that these work better with very thick rads and even fin density plays a clear role.


----------



## mechtech (Aug 13, 2021)

sector-z said:


> Yes but your cooling potentiel is very shitty with that. That Phantek fan are really not for the same type of people like you. But more for High FPI Rad 20/30 Rad and Heavy OC PC or Hot ambiant temps country


Cooling potential is good, as long as don't OC, or like you said live somewhere where its 30C, I am fortunate to have AC so my room temp does not go past 24C.  My cpu never breaks 50C with any benchmark.  I would consider these fans though cause they have 1000 rpm setting.


----------



## CheapMeat (Aug 13, 2021)

These look amazing. Do you think they would be a good pairing for my Rosewill 4U chassis front intakes? I'm not using hotswap bays, so 3.5" HDDs would be right behind them. I think 30mm fan will fit.


----------



## Tomgang (Aug 14, 2021)

Holy dam s**t. These fans are the new benchmark to beat. Wide rpm range from around 300 rpm to 3000 RPM. The 30 MM thickness help it seems, if they can fit in your Build. The 3 Switch modes are also I good idea i think or at least they try something new. It's the first time I see a switch on a fan line that. 

The only thing these fans are missing in some eyes, are RGB light and I would had preferred complete black coluer to fit my build the best. But over all impressive fans for sure.

But I am not going out and replacing my fans. I just built a new system with lian li uni fan SL120 as case fans and a pair of noctua industrial ippc 3000 RPM fans.


----------



## GorbazTheDragon (Aug 14, 2021)

Tomgang said:


> The 3 Switch modes are also I good idea i think or at least they try something new.


Yes, I really like this tbh

One of my biggest personal gripes with the A12x25s is that low max RPM and this is a great way to enable both high RPM and low capped RPM for boards that like to wang up the fans.

I have mixed feelings on the 30mm thickness though. Guess I'd go to the local hardware store for screws if I had one of these to mount on a rad.


----------



## Tomgang (Aug 14, 2021)

GorbazTheDragon said:


> Yes, I really like this tbh
> 
> One of my biggest personal gripes with the A12x25s is that low max RPM and this is a great way to enable both high RPM and low capped RPM for boards that like to wang up the fans.
> 
> I have mixed feelings on the 30mm thickness though. Guess I'd go to the local hardware store for screws if I had one of these to mount on a rad.


For what I have seen in another review on YouTube. Phanteks provides longer screws included with the fan for radiator or other mountings. So you are actually covered there as well.


----------



## Crackong (Aug 14, 2021)

Tomgang said:


> For what I have seen in another review on YouTube. Phanteks provides longer screws included with the fan for radiator or other mountings. So you are actually covered there as well.


But the threads aren't the same for various rad manufacturers.


----------



## Therein (Aug 14, 2021)

Great fan no doubt, but what really does the trick for them here is simply the incresed thickness, if noctua or similar made their fans bigger, they would likely perform better than phanteks again, so not really any brilliant enginnering going on here, just bigger fan. 
Shame there is no 140mm version of this, it would be an instant buy from me.


----------



## cpugpuram (Aug 16, 2021)

Nice to see competition but i would still pick Noctua at this price. I was expecting more reasonable price from Phanteks. Even 3 pack isn't cheap. Also rad+fan space is valuable for us custom loopers. Generally HUGE cases have proper spacing. I wouldn't wanna waste precious 5cm space. 1 pack $25, 3 pack $65 would be fair.


----------



## sector-z (Aug 16, 2021)

cpugpuram said:


> Nice to see competition but i would still pick Noctua at this price. I was expecting more reasonable price from Phanteks. Even 3 pack isn't cheap. Also rad+fan space is valuable for us custom loopers. Generally HUGE cases have proper spacing. I wouldn't wanna waste precious 5cm space. 1 pack $25, 3 pack $65 would be fair.


Maybe a 6 pack with better price, they are fan for Custom loop and I dont think 3 is enough anyway for that type of customer


----------



## John Naylor (Aug 17, 2021)

We will have to find a replacement for the Phanteks 140 SPs ... usually ordereed them by the dozen and still have plenty left.  Haven't found a reason to to use anything that would have them break 650 rpm on any of our WC builds so far except under stress testing where they will climb to about 825 rpm.  If they hit 850, they just about become audible so don't wanna go there.   Don't really need a fan that goes 2,000 - 3,000 rpm when delta T's are under 10C (8.7 C on this box) at full load of 700 watts .  Not like 7C Delta T makes the box any faster.  And the OC; usually have been voltage not temp limited.

Availability has become an issue tho and will have to find a replacement someday soon.  Low speed control usually peters out around 30% speed at at 2,000 rpm ... so 600 rpm is a bit high for me.  I usually set them to shut off when speed reaches about 325.  Been waiting for these for years .... will have to call and see, how the line will expand and if the DCV versions will be substantially cheaper.  I tested both PWM (XP) versions and DCV (SP) versions running on this box years ago found and little visible difference .... the speed and noise are comparable, never really understood why the DCV versions were able to hit significantly lower temps.  I thot I was off my rocker until I saw the review here:



			Phanteks PH-F140(XP, SP, SP_LED) Fans: Testing -  Phanteks PH-F140 (XP, SP, SP_LED) Case Fan Review - Page 3
		


These fans will be very attractive to AIO users which typically have higher FPIs and aluminum rads.  I still prefer low speed fans for copper rads w/ FPIs of 8 -14 so I hope they follow up and expand the line.


----------



## Oberon (Aug 17, 2021)

GorbazTheDragon said:


> One of my biggest personal gripes with the A12x25s is that low max RPM and this is a great way to enable both high RPM and low capped RPM for boards that like to wang up the fans.



They're loud enough at 2000 RPM that if you need more you're not really focused on noise in the first place, so you could have just gone out and bought a less efficient fan with a much higher max RPM like an ML120. If you just wanted an NF-A12x25, you could also just buy the 5V version and run it at 12V. The fan blades don't start to rub the frame until a bit over 3000 RPM, but the protection features will shut it down after a bit if you run it much over 2900 RPM.


----------



## venturi (Aug 23, 2021)

nice, quiet, install replacing my tiramisu colored noctua A12x25


----------



## CheapMeat (Aug 23, 2021)

Is that how the drives setup comes with the case?  I love the way the drives look.


----------



## venturi (Aug 23, 2021)

CheapMeat said:


> Is that how the drives setup comes with the case?  I love the way the drives look.


No sir, all modded, I have long thread in this forum on getting all that in the SFF. I custom made the drive caddy, with internal quiet fans to cool those 4x micron 9300s


----------



## doyll (Aug 23, 2021)

I have 3-pack of Phanteks new T30 fans inbound, so as soon as they arrive I will run some testing in current Evolv ITX build.  It's using 2x PH-F140MP intakes with no exhaust fans now.  Probably be a week or so.  Will give case intake air temp vs inside air temp vs component temps.  Maybe exhaust air temp to just for fun.


----------



## doyll (Aug 31, 2021)

Fans arrived!
I'm impressed at how nicely packaged they are.  Their rigid foam packaging is really well designed.  So far only running is setting on bench showing they have a pleasant sound.  More to come soon.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 3, 2021)

Wait, so are you able to make your own custom fan curve with these fans or are you stuck with the 3 profiles?


----------



## maxfly (Sep 3, 2021)

They are still pwm. The profiles are the maximum speeds.


----------



## doyll (Sep 3, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Wait, so are you able to make your own custom fan curve with these fans or are you stuck with the 3 profiles?


I'm using a custom profile with fans on performance mode.  Fans are installed as front intakes with all openings in mounting panel not covered by them taped off so air they push into motherboard compartment has to flow back and out, not leak around into front to go in circles.  This is in Evolv mATX MSI B450M Mortar Max motherboard using Command Center to setup curve to idle at 600-650rpm at 40-45c CPU temp and ramping up to 980-1020rpm at 60-65c CPU temp.    

Bottom fan is a very tight fit between fan mounting panel and PSU shroud.


----------



## doyll (Sep 4, 2021)

Here some data of T30s' as intakes on Evolv mATX.  Not a big difference in this case (no pun) but T30 fans are clearly moving more air.  I suspect on radiators it would be even more evident. 



I'm getting airflow bench setup.  Once it's done I'll be able to present better data.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 4, 2021)

im going to get a kit of these fans to change up my rig. The PC-011D becomes a freaking hot box after an hour of a load with 2 radiators one bottom one top, and bottom being the only one as intake, so top one basically just gets hot air and no fans on the side part since my EK FLT res takes up that entire area. Change things up, different res, possibly switch to the XL version of the case for more space, etc.


----------



## doyll (Sep 6, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> im going to get a kit of these fans to change up my rig. The PC-011D becomes a freaking hot box after an hour of a load with 2 radiators one bottom one top, and bottom being the only one as intake, so top one basically just gets hot air and no fans on the side part since my EK FLT res takes up that entire area. Change things up, different res, possibly switch to the XL version of the case for more space, etc.


You could try just replacing fans on bottom radiator.  Also raise case up so there is 20+ mm clearance from bottom of case to what case sets on.  Even higher / more space is better.  
3x 120mm fans have about 324sqcm of airflow area. 
2cm bottom clearance is only about 183.36sqcm of airflow area to 3x bottom fans.  A little over half the intake area of 3x 120mm fans side by side.
4cm bottom clearance gives about 366.72sq cm of airflow area to 3x bottom fans.  A little more area than 3x 120mm intake fans side by side.
With 3x bottom 120mm fans middle fan is only drawing air from 2 sides while end fans draw air from 3 sides.  120mm fan is about

So ideally we want about 4cm from bottom of case to what case sets on.
I use open center caster bases under mine.  Makes it much easier to move them around too.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 6, 2021)

doyll said:


> You could try just replacing fans on bottom radiator.  Also raise case up so there is 20+ mm clearance from bottom of case to what case sets on.  Even higher / more space is better.
> 3x 120mm fans have about 324sqcm of airflow area.
> 2cm bottom clearance is only about 183.36sqcm of airflow area to 3x bottom fans.  A little over half the intake area of 3x 120mm fans side by side.
> 4cm bottom clearance gives about 366.72sq cm of airflow area to 3x bottom fans.  A little more area than 3x 120mm intake fans side by side.
> ...



yeah i thought about getting some inch thick or so wood that I can I sit the front and back feet on until i make the change


----------



## mtcn77 (Sep 6, 2021)

John Naylor said:


> *Don't really need a fan that goes 2,000 - 3,000 rpm when delta T's are under 10C* (8.7 C on this box) at full load of 700 watts . Not like 7C Delta T makes the box any faster. And the OC; usually have been voltage not temp limited.


Is there a way to find the function of a fan performance curve? Finding the inflection point would help in finding the best pq curve point depending on the application heat without having to make our own fan anemometer chart.


----------



## doyll (Sep 6, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> Is there a way to find the function of a fan performance curve? Finding the inflection point would help in finding the best pq curve point depending on the application heat without having to make our own fan anemometer chart.


I set my case fans (and cooler fan/s) on a progressive curve using temperature to rpm curve.  This is same principle used by most fan software.    Fan idle speed is about 600rpm. @ about 35-40c.  Any slower rpm won't create much if any air.  2nd setting is about 800rpm @ about 45c, then 1100rpm @ about 60c, then 1300-1400rpm @ 70-75c and full speed @ 80c because most CPUs begin throttling somewhere between 80c and 100c.  Obviously speed : temp very with what fans, case and CPU are being used.


----------



## mtcn77 (Sep 6, 2021)

doyll said:


> I set my case fans (and cooler fan/s) on a progressive curve using temperature to rpm curve.  This is same principle used by most fan software.    Fan idle speed is about 600rpm. @ about 35-40c.  Any slower rpm won't create much if any air.  2nd setting is about 800rpm @ about 45c, then 1100rpm @ about 60c, then 1300-1400rpm @ 70-75c and full speed @ 80c because most CPUs begin throttling somewhere between 80c and 100c.  Obviously speed : temp very with what fans, case and CPU are being used.


There has to be an easy way to find maximum heat extraction. That is what I'm saying. It should form a curve and knowing the tail function should enable the best rpm according to varying loads.


----------



## doyll (Sep 6, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> There has to be an easy way to find maximum heat extraction. That is what I'm saying. It should form a curve and knowing the tail function should enable the best rpm according to varying loads.


Well, if you find one please post it up so we can all use it.  The way I described is best way I know of.  Just noticed I didn't say fan rpm is also dependent on noise levels at different speeds.  Most of our home have background noise level of about 30dBA, so fan noise below that level is not audible over background noise.  I don't like my systems to be louder than about 35dBA.  Some people don't mind 40dBA, some even louder levels.


----------



## mtcn77 (Sep 6, 2021)

Something in the vicinity of delta t and watts removed should do it. Just have to stick it in a formula.


----------



## doyll (Sep 6, 2021)

Sounds good, but problems are many.   
Different CPUs deliver heat differently, 
different coolers cool differently, 
differently fans flow air differently and at different cfm to DBA ratios,
different case flow different amounts of air through their grills and filters,
and that's just a few things that come to mind quickly.


----------



## mtcn77 (Sep 6, 2021)

That is why I said it should form an adjustable curve for every circumstancial setup which we can adjust to the situation.


----------



## doyll (Sep 6, 2021)

When you get it all figured out I would love to give it a try.  Could make you some money too.


----------



## mtcn77 (Sep 6, 2021)

doyll said:


> iWhen you get it all figured out I would love to give it a try.  Could make you some money too.


Just need to transfer cfm-delta t function to cfm-watt at constant temperature. Since they are reciprocally correlated(at the temperature), that shouldn't be too impossible with some coefficient. But I need a thermal probe at radiator. IHS has its own transmittance problem.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 7, 2022)

Ahah!

I was looking into these fans (as they're faaar cheaper than noctuas right now) and wondered wtf the "halo" screws mentioned in the spec sheet were


Had to read this review to find out they're just for the RGB addon frames


----------



## doyll (Jan 11, 2022)

"Halo screws" is name only Phanteks users would recognize, and even then many wouldn't.  VSG does excellent reviews.


----------



## Toshikobo (Aug 21, 2022)

Hossein Almet said:


> I'll wipe the smile off the faces of the arrogant Noctua engineers.


Before doing so, let Noctua come up with a *30mm* thick fan, just to see how it swipes the T*30*-120.
Equal to equal fight !


----------



## MattC (Sep 1, 2022)

The Noctua NF-A14 2000 PPC have airflow measured at 108 CFM, the T30 at 2000 RPM are 67 CFM, per the manufacturers.  I understand that this may not be an apples to apples comparison, so I am not sure what the actual difference should be.  If I really, really need the airflow, do you think I should still go with the Noctuas even if the T30s are a better overall fan?  I've seen a review have the T30s measuring higher airflow than the NF-F12 3000 PPC at full RPMs in an open environment, so I am not sure.  Perhaps, something else?  I can tolerate some noise, but 3000 RPM for these fans is probably too much, 2000, or slightly higher is reasonable.


----------



## VSG (Sep 2, 2022)

MattC said:


> The Noctua NF-A14 2000 PPC have airflow measured at 108 CFM, the T30 at 2000 RPM are 67 CFM, per the manufacturers.  I understand that this may not be an apples to apples comparison, so I am not sure what the actual difference should be.  If I really, really need the airflow, do you think I should still go with the Noctuas even if the T30s are a better overall fan?  I've seen a review have the T30s measuring higher airflow than the NF-F12 3000 PPC at full RPMs in an open environment, so I am not sure.  Perhaps, something else?  I can tolerate some noise, but 3000 RPM for these fans is probably too much, 2000, or slightly higher is reasonable.


Airflow by itself isn't a mutually exclusiver metric and depends on the airflow restriction the fan is facing in addition to the static pressure at that point. This is why a fan's P-Q curve and the components airflow restriction curve are important to know the exact airflow you will get when the two components meet each others. As such it's impossible to tell you which fan will be better, and I don't think you should choose one over the other with regrets since both are excellent fans. I'd say the T30-120 is more likely to give you higher airflow when up against a more restrictive surface and the NF-A12x25 more at lower airflow restrictions. I can't speak for the NF-A14 (140 mm fan) and the NF-F12 iPPPC 3000 here.


----------



## nguyen (Sep 2, 2022)

Just ordered 6x Phanteks T30 fans couple of days ago in preparation for my new build


----------



## Pictus (Sep 3, 2022)

Mine arrived today, build like a tank! 
The impeller seems super aligned/calibrated, quality stuff.
I guess the letter T comes from Terminator... 
BTW, Phanteks, were is the T40?


----------



## nguyen (Sep 14, 2022)

best stuff arrived today


----------



## doyll (Sep 14, 2022)

Great!  
Let the fun begin!


----------



## P4-630 (Dec 7, 2022)

Are they down to 0rpm in all 3 modes?


----------



## Pictus (Dec 7, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> Are they down to 0rpm in all 3 modes?



Here with the BIOS(ASUS TUF B550) the only mode that goes to 0 RPM is the 1200 RPM mode, but
by using FanControl the 3000 RPM mode also goes to 0 RPM and I think the 2000 RPM mode goes too.
BTW, make sure to set the fan to PWM in the BIOS, not AUTO or DC.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Dec 8, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> Are they down to 0rpm in all 3 modes?


I think you missed this:




Hybrid mode has 0rpm, the other two do not.


----------



## Oberon (Dec 8, 2022)

Chrispy_ said:


> I think you missed this:
> 
> View attachment 273535
> Hybrid mode has 0rpm, the other two do not.


----------



## P4-630 (Dec 8, 2022)

Chrispy_ said:


> I think you missed this:
> 
> View attachment 273535
> Hybrid mode has 0rpm, the other two do not.



Well the red and blue line go to 0 in that graph..


----------



## Chrispy_ (Dec 8, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> Well the red and blue line go to 0 in that graph..


Most fans are at 0 rpm when they're switched off, unless it's _heckin' wimdy_.

Either that, or you have a poltergeist!


----------



## cbb (Jan 1, 2023)

this seems like a great fan, but I wish they'd test some modern noctua's for comparison. I use all nocs, but it's an old build and I had mixed results (a couple noisy ones). Maybe a big fan roundup; a lot of enthusiasts replace the fans (unlike how TPU tests cases) so a survey on fans would be super useful to many readers, I think? maybe not quite as exhaustive as much as broad "lay of the land"?


----------



## AsRock (Jan 1, 2023)

30mm should be a good thing ( for some at least ), deal breaker here is the price is way to high.


----------



## claes (Jan 1, 2023)

cbb said:


> this seems like a great fan, but I wish they'd test some modern noctua's for comparison. I use all nocs, but it's an old build and I had mixed results (a couple noisy ones). Maybe a big fan roundup; a lot of enthusiasts replace the fans (unlike how TPU tests cases) so a survey on fans would be super useful to many readers, I think? maybe not quite as exhaustive as much as broad "lay of the land"?


The review includes three modern 120mm noctua fans


----------



## Dredi (Jan 2, 2023)

Would be interesting to see the performance of A12 with the spacer that noctua now sells, compared to this. Would even out the dimensions.


----------



## Oberon (Jan 5, 2023)

Dredi said:


> Would be interesting to see the performance of A12 with the spacer that noctua now sells, compared to this. Would even out the dimensions.


Most radiators (with the exception of something like the TX series from XSPC) already incorporate shrouds to separate the fan body from the core of the radiator. Increasing the distance between them even more isn't going to help things in any meaningful way.


----------



## cbb (Jan 6, 2023)

claes said:


> The review includes three modern 120mm noctua fans


oops, how did I miss that...going back to relook, ty. I swear, I wasn't *that* drunk!  (shakes head). Ty!


----------



## Dredi (Jan 6, 2023)

Oberon said:


> Increasing the distance between them even more isn't going to help things in any meaningful way.


Really? I guess you got some numbers up on that. I find it hard to believe that the amount of shrouds is optimal on most radiators out of the box. In the good old days people would build shrouds even to 25mm and get increasingly better results.


----------



## maxfly (Jan 6, 2023)

Dredi said:


> Really? I guess you got some numbers up on that. I find it hard to believe that the amount of shrouds is optimal on most radiators out of the box. In the good old days people would build shrouds even to 25mm and get increasingly better results.


Sure and in the good old days we used gaskets to seal the fans up to the shroud. They did very little to improve temps but for a few outliers (Thermochill pa series). Even back then the shrouds were optimized to allow for the best airflow results possible.
What would give you the impression that rad companies would stop optimizing every part of their products, particularly the distance from shroud to fins?


----------



## Oberon (Jan 6, 2023)

Dredi said:


> Really? I guess you got some numbers up on that. I find it hard to believe that the amount of shrouds is optimal on most radiators out of the box. In the good old days people would build shrouds even to 25mm and get increasingly better results.


Diminishing returns. You might get some sound improvement with fans in a pull configuration, but the 4-5 mm extra you get with most rads is plenty. The "dead spot" theory that using things like old fan frames as shrouds was meant to address isn't really an issue.


----------



## Dredi (Jan 6, 2023)

Oberon said:


> Diminishing returns.


Yes, for sure. But what would be the improvement if we add the few mm to the fan depth to even out the size difference? That was my question. You claim the difference to be so little as to not to require any testing, but show no proof.


Oberon said:


> The "dead spot" theory that using things like old fan frames as shrouds was meant to address isn't really an issue.


Got any numbers on that too?



maxfly said:


> the best airflow results possible.
> What would give you the impression that rad companies would stop optimizing every part of their products, particularly the distance from shroud to fins?


They optimize performance for a given total depth. I.e. adding more clearance at the cost of fin depth would make the product worse. If the total depth is not an issue, say, because you can use 30mm fans to go with it, then the equation changes.

all i’m saying is that total depth (fan+rad) testing would be interesting. Nothing more.


----------



## maxfly (Jan 6, 2023)

Dredi said:


> Yes, for sure. But what would be the improvement if we add the few mm to the fan depth to even out the size difference? That was my question. You claim the difference to be so little as to not to require any testing, but show no proof.
> 
> Got any numbers on that too?
> 
> ...


How so?
 The shroud to fin gap is the same regardless of fan thickness. We've been using 38mm fans with rads for years...30mm fans aren't changing anything in regards to the way the rads are designed.


----------



## Dredi (Jan 6, 2023)

maxfly said:


> How so?
> The shroud to fin gap is the same regardless of fan thickness. We've been using 38mm fans with rads for years...30mm fans aren't changing anything in regards to the way the rads are designed.


What is the fin gap in 10mm rads? 60mm rads? I believe it’s not the same. For thinner rads it is likely better to have more fins and less gap, compared to thicker ones. 

A 25mm fan and 20mm rad is likely better than 10mm rad (including the fin gap) with a 25mm fan, compared to 10mm rad with a 38mm fan. Both have similar total thickness (45mm vs. 48mm).

Total thickness does matter, and it would be nice to see if adding thicker fans vs. more fin gap vs. thicker rad is the best, and by how much.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 7, 2023)

Oberon said:


> Most radiators (with the exception of something like the TX series from XSPC) already incorporate shrouds to separate the fan body from the core of the radiator. Increasing the distance between them even more isn't going to help things in any meaningful way.


it helps a lot more than you might think, since it can also cover up random air gaps caused by differing fan shapes and radiator shroud shapes


----------



## Oberon (Jan 8, 2023)

That's why you have gaskets...


----------



## Mussels (Wednesday at 1:21 AM)

Oberon said:


> That's why you have gaskets...


Sure if you can buy them

Nowhere has stock of them, nor has for some time


----------



## SOAREVERSOR (Wednesday at 9:45 PM)

Mussels said:


> Sure if you can buy them
> 
> Nowhere has stock of them, nor has for some time



A quick google search finds a lot of them.


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## Mussels (Thursday at 12:59 AM)

SOAREVERSOR said:


> A quick google search finds a lot of them.


that are out of stock, or have reviews saying they're the wrong size and materials


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