# Can you beat my game on hard?



## AphexDreamer (Nov 10, 2014)

If you do please post a screenshot or recording and let me know how you did it!

Also if you have any feature requests or dislikes please inform me! I'm trying to make this as solid of a game as possible. 

The name align & chime is because I anticipate having notes played when the game pieces are played and when you align to win it will play them back or perhaps just play a chime! I haven't yet decided on the chime so if anyone has any ideas that would be great!

Here is the link. Its a unity game so you will need unity web player to play it. 

http://gerfeso.x10.m.../Temp/Temp.html

Thanks!


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## L|NK|N (Nov 10, 2014)

Took me a few tries but it was fun. 

1) How is scoring based, the fewer the moves the higher the score?
2) A feature request: Option to save the settings. 
3) A feature request: Allow ten-key enter button to work.


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## AphexDreamer (Nov 10, 2014)

LiNKiN said:


> Took me a few tries but it was fun.
> 
> 1) How is scoring based, the fewer the moves the higher the score?
> 2) A feature request: Option to save the settings.
> 3) A feature request: Allow ten-key enter button to work.


Thanks! Is it repeatable? As in you can do that over and over and win every time?

Score system still needs some work. But yeah basically the fewer the moves the more points you can get. However, I need to punish people for losing.


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## L|NK|N (Nov 10, 2014)

Seems pretty random on the AI part. I tried about 5 times and won a different way. The key is to start in the center.


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## AphexDreamer (Nov 10, 2014)

I think I know whats going on. Trying to fix it. Thanks again.


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## AphexDreamer (Nov 10, 2014)

Ok so I think I fixed it and I'm uploading the new one!

let me know if that trick still works!


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## de.das.dude (Nov 10, 2014)

something fucky. everything is out of line.


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## AphexDreamer (Nov 10, 2014)

de.das.dude said:


> something fucky. everything is out of line.


I think I accidentally uploaded the wrong version because the version number didn't change. Sorry!
Should say 2.7.0!

EDIT: But it doesn't matter because it still flawed.

I have to think about my AI some more.

EDIT: Ok last quick upload V2.7.1

But what I think is happening is that while I focus in one win area it effects the other outcomes and makes them easier.


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Nov 10, 2014)

A little to easy. That was first try.


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## AphexDreamer (Nov 10, 2014)

Is there any way to draw if the first person gets to go first and knows what there doing in a 5x5x4  game?

I'm starting to think there isn't?

Like even if I could have it anticipate every move, someone who knows what their doing will always win because they have the center piece.


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Nov 10, 2014)

I have found a way to win every time in very few moves


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## AphexDreamer (Nov 10, 2014)

I think the key thing I'm missing is that I have to note which center piece they choose and change the AI's behavior accordingly. Because they can choose absolute center or one of the side centers and win. Unless I have my AI know and block.

But again I'm not sure if AI can ever draw or win against someone who knows what they are doing and gets to go first.

Try not going first? Still easy?


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Nov 10, 2014)

Yeah if we pick center we basically have it beat. As long as we can react to it's placement with the right move we can win everytime.


I will say you are very close to perfect. As it seems to "anticipate" moves sometimes and make you think


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## AphexDreamer (Nov 10, 2014)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> Yeah if we pick center we basically have it beat. As long as we can react to it's placement with the right move we can win everytime


And that is what I'm starting to see is the truth. Wouldn't matter how good I make it.

Unless I make it aggressive and not just defensive. But still might not matter.


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## Cybrnook2002 (Nov 10, 2014)

yep


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Nov 10, 2014)

Oh it's good and addictive that's for sure.


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Nov 10, 2014)

I can almost play this thing all day. And the music is soothing. It has gone from can you beat it to how many times in a row can you beat it and how little of moves can you beat it in.


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## AphexDreamer (Nov 10, 2014)

Thanks for all the feedback and comments! I think I have a good idea on how to improve the AI and hope to have it up soon.


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## Mindweaver (Nov 10, 2014)

Aww.. I was coming back to play more.. lol The hardest level is good, but with an unlimited amount of time it's still fairly easy to beat. I suggest adding a Time limit for each round to increase user error. hehe


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Nov 10, 2014)

Mindweaver said:


> Aww.. I was coming back to play more.. lol The hardest level is good, but with an unlimited amount of time it's still fairly easy to beat. I suggest adding a Time limit for each round to increase user error. hehe


tell me about it. I just did the same thing and tried to play moar.


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## de.das.dude (Nov 11, 2014)

Mindweaver said:


> Aww.. I was coming back to play more.. lol The hardest level is good, but with an unlimited amount of time it's still fairly easy to beat. I suggest adding a Time limit for each round to increase user error. hehe


but it takes 2 seconds to finish


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## AphexDreamer (Nov 11, 2014)

de.das.dude said:


> but it takes 2 seconds to finish


It was a bit random. As it is now I think I've got it but the stopChanceList is storing slots that I'm not quite sure where its getting and resulting in stupid plays at times. The right slot is in there but it also has bad slots. I'm trying to see how I can make it just use the right one out of the list.

I get extra credit if I make it unbeatable so that is what I'm going for. Although it would probably be more fun if one could beat it every now and then which I can still have it do.


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## SaltyFish (Nov 11, 2014)

AphexDreamer said:


> I get extra credit if I make it unbeatable so that is what I'm going for.



3x3 Tic-Tac-Toe is a solved problem that, if I recall correctly, is unwinnable if both players know what they're doing. I suspect it can be extrapolated to a larger variant with the same results.

EDIT: Wikipedia confirms it is a draw. And the result is the same for yours (5,5,4) though it is not a general rule. Regardless, implementing it is another thing.


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## AphexDreamer (Nov 11, 2014)

Well I think I've finally done it. I toiled all night but I think I manged to do it. To tired to test it thoroughly though so if TPU can that would be awesome.
You can right click to make it full screen then quit to have the GUI scale better. 

Here is the link same as OP.

Good Luck!
http://gerfeso.x10.mx/george/Temp/Temp.html


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## Mindweaver (Nov 11, 2014)

de.das.dude said:


> but it takes 2 seconds to finish


Well then we need a 1 second timer..  There is a lot of things that can be done to add to this game like remove the center spot.


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## Aquinus (Nov 11, 2014)

The game seems to simple to me in the sense of what occurs. Having just blocks 2 bits worth of states doesn't make it complex to think through. Is it occupied or is it not? Is it your block or is it not? The general logic isn't too complex so someone playing might not have to think as hard about any given move. With a game like 2048, there is more to think about but the logic itself isn't incredibly complex. I personally would opt for something that's more mind-provoking for any given move I think. While the game works, I think the general rules might just be too simple, but that's me.


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## AphexDreamer (Nov 11, 2014)

Aquinus said:


> The game seems to simple to me in the sense of what occurs. Having just blocks 2 bits worth of states doesn't make it complex to think through. Is it occupied or is it not? Is it your block or is it not? The general logic isn't too complex so someone playing might not have to think as hard about any given move. With a game like 2048, there is more to think about but the logic itself isn't incredibly complex. I personally would opt for something that's more mind-provoking for any given move I think. While the game works, I think the general rules might just be too simple, but that's me.



Its a class project, a learning experience and my first game that isn't even completed. The mechanics are pretty basic akin to the children's game tic-tac-toe. I could try to mess with it once I turn it in to make it more interesting. As it is I'm meeting my professors requirements.


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Nov 11, 2014)

Still 2 to 3 seconds and it's beat.


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## AphexDreamer (Nov 11, 2014)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> Still 2 to 3 seconds and it's beat.


Same method?


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Nov 11, 2014)

Yes i'll pm my method


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## AphexDreamer (Nov 11, 2014)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> Yes i'll pm my method



Thanks, I just gave it the ability to set traps so hopefully that was the last push it needed and doesn't break it.


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Nov 11, 2014)

I just did it again and same result. I pm'd you with the method and a crude drawing of it.


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## xorbe (Nov 11, 2014)

AphexDreamer said:


> Well I think I've finally done it.



There are only 16,777,216 outcomes assuming the board is filled every time, discounting who starts, and that doesn't even discount rotations and mirrors.  It should be trivial to mechanically implement, regardless.


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## ZenZimZaliben (Nov 11, 2014)

Win every time. 3-3 is Cube center. moves are 3-4, 4-3, 4-4, 2-4, then depending on which side AI picks - 1-4 or 5-4


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## AphexDreamer (Nov 11, 2014)

So far there is only one way to beat it right? In 4 directions that is but one method.

Also I can no longer recreate The-Mad-shots's method,


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Nov 11, 2014)

Nether can I. Well done and great job.


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## ZenZimZaliben (Nov 11, 2014)

What is odd is that my solution doesn't always work on medium difficulty. But works everytime on hard/easy.

Also I think this is a good little game. I like the ambient music choice.


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## AphexDreamer (Nov 12, 2014)

Its should still be beatable but the chance of it messing up should also be a lot smaller.

EDIT:

Its either unbeatable now or the way to win is much more abstract and hard to notice than any of the other more obvious ways. I think its the former though.


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