# Major Ryzen 3600 upgrade



## djisas (Apr 5, 2020)

Been fiddling around shops for a while, watching the market and with BL3 struggling on my current CPU, the time has came.

So m here looking for advice and stuff on this new build...

Ive settled on cpu R53600 for 170€
MB im not sure whether X470 or X570, to note that SATA ports are important, and so is the audio quality since I will lose my soundcard, I may buy a cheap NVMe drive for OS only.
So some of the options are:
Asus ROG Strix X470-F Gaming ~230€
Asus ROG Crosshair VII Hero (Wi-Fi) X470 ~280€
Asus ROG Strix X570-F Gaming -300€
Im open to suggestions, but i like the design and specs of these ASUS boards, and i have been an ASUS fanboy forever, (though i gave up on their graphic cards...)

For cooler i'm thinking Noctua NH-D9L or Noctua NH-L12S ~50€, cant fit anything taller than a D9

And for RAM, I can go cheap Team Group Kit 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 3600MHz Dark Z Red CL18 80€
Or big G.SKILL Trident Z Neo RGB 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4-3600MHz CL16 136€, it's about the best priced CL16 kit i can get apart from some Ripjaws V CL 16 for 100...
So big question is the Trident worth 60€ more?

I might upgrade graphic card next year if it's worth it, and even the cpu and NVMe and reduce on the old mechanical HDD's, current card is RX5600XT...


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## X71200 (Apr 5, 2020)

The Trident-Z RAM is not worth it for €60 more, also those prices are absurd for those boards. You could simply get a B450 that supports Matisse like the Tomahawk MAX.


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## Tatty_One (Apr 5, 2020)

Agree with ^^^, for a 3600 I would not pay considerably more than the CPU price for a motherboard (but that's just me), you said sound was important, the Asus ROG Strix B450-F Gaming has good sound (S1220A), overclocks well and hopefully has the connectivity you need, the money saved should cover the 60 for the Trident's if you really want them.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Apr 5, 2020)

If you decide to thrift into a 570 board, check the QVL for memory choices. the B450 doesnt matter as much.


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## oxrufiioxo (Apr 5, 2020)

Of the 3 boards you have listed I would grab the X570 Strix F the hero 7 is way too close in price and the x470 is way overpriced at 230€ for what you're getting 160€ is a much as I would be comfortable spending on it I would actually personally buy the x570 tuf over it but I sense you're going for a rog theme.

The B450 Tomahawk max is an excellent board and you could likely grab a 3700X and still come out paying less overall...

Unless that ram is CL 16-16-16-36 I wouldn't spend extra on it over the other kits.


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## djisas (Apr 5, 2020)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Of the 3 boards you have listed I would grab the X570 Strix F the hero 7 is way too close in price and the x470 is way overpriced at 230€ for what you're getting 160€ is a much as I would be comfortable spending on it I would actually personally buy the x570 tuf over it but I sense you're going for a rog theme.
> 
> The B450 Tomahawk max is an excellent board and you could likely grab a 3700X and still come out paying less overall...
> 
> Unless that ram is CL 16-16-16-36 I wouldn't spend extra on it over the other kits.



Ram is some Cl 16-19-19-something, anything with thighter timmings will be north of 150€...
As much i liked TUF in the past (my sabertooth P67) they feel cheaper these days...

I also feel everything is way overpriced around here, will keep thinking and listening, ty Y'all...

Also for 10 fps, 3700X will be way over 100€ in price, might as well upgrade to ryzen 3 when it comes...


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## oxrufiioxo (Apr 5, 2020)

I've done 2 builds with the Tuf one with the 3700X the other with a 3900X... I was actually pretty impressed with it considering it was around 165 usd when purchased.... 6 layer pcb, decent vrm, 8 sata ports, bios is solid..... The only thing I would change is Intel instead of realtek lan although neither of the people I did the builds for have had any issues whatsoever with it.

Other than the sub $250 msi boards all of the X570 boards are pretty good at least when it comes to vrm even the lowest tier Asus board has a very similar vrm to the Z390 hero.


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## Metroid (Apr 5, 2020)

AMD Ryzen 4000 'Zen 3 Vermeer' Desktop CPU And Radeon RX Navi 2X 'RDNA 2' Graphics Cards Expected To Launch In October 2020
					

AMD is suggested to launch its next-generation Ryzen 4000 Zen 3 CPUs and Radeon RX Navi 2X GPU based graphics cards in October 2020.




					wccftech.com
				




I wonder if the launch of 4xxx will really be in 2020, few months away, i would wait. Year ago I had the same choice, buy a i5 9600 or wait 3600, I waited the 3600 and pretty happy about it. I hope the $200 tag price will be for a 8 core this time and if yes I will glad upgrade.

My recommendation is to wait till October.


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## dgianstefani (Apr 5, 2020)

This is one of the most unbalanced builds i've seen.

Don't spend twice the price of your CPU on your motherboard. 

Don't buy a 6 core CPU then get top tier RAM.

Don't consider an SSD to be an optional purchase.


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## Iceni (Apr 5, 2020)

I just ordered a 3600 system for myself and went through a big list of compromises.

VRM and chipset were the main things I got wrapped up in when looking at what's what.

The one thing I kept seeing was the lack of overclocking potential on the 12 and 16 core chips when using a lesser VRM. This is most of the MSI budget X570 and some of the Gigabyte. Asus hasn't cut as many corners on the VRM solution at the bottom end and even the Prime x570-p has a reasonable VRM.

Trouble has been that AM4 is almost the end of the line. The 4K chips will use it, but after that, we are expecting a new socket. So unless you are planning on upgrading to a 12 or 16 core and overclocking there is no real reason to invest in a beefy VRM. If you can find the features you want on the lesser motherboards, and you are confident that you will not be upgrading for the next 3-4 years then go cheap.

Because of that, the board I picked for myself was the absolute cheapest that met the requirements for the 3600, The MSI MPG x570 gaming plus.

Chipset I still went X570 over B450 and X470.

The thought process here was far more involved - B450 doesn't offer SLI I have 2 end of life cards that I plan to use for a couple more years so it had to be an X series chipset for me. Likewise, X470 just wasn't available and where it was it wasn't priced correctly for the features it looses over X570. The loss of PCI-E 4 for the SSD's and the lower ram speed capabilities just made X570 a more promising chipset.


It seems to be a universal consensus that 3600 ram is the sweet spot for these systems. Timings do matter, but you should be able to tighten any decent ram timings by using the ram calculator. I ended up with Adata XPG 3600 CL18 as a compromise. Badly timed ram is worse for these systems than slow ram. There is a gamer nexus video kicking about where they have some Geil 3200 and use it across an MSI and Gigabyte board and the boards are pulling different timings out of the XMP profile. The result is that on the board that pulls the slacker timings some 2400 ram was beating it in a lot of tests.

As for your sound setup, you can get PCI-E soundcards now, It may be worth investing some money saved on corner-cutting into one, Rather than spending $100 more on a motherboard that may or may not have adequate sound quality.


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## X71200 (Apr 5, 2020)

Sound cards should be a thing of past, if you really *need* good sound, I'd suggest looking into decent DACs like Schiit. Otherwise, stick with onboard.


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## djisas (Apr 5, 2020)

Although other than the sub $250 msi boards all of the X570 boards are pretty good at least when it comes to vrm even the lowest tier Asus board has very similar vrm to the Z390 hero.
[/QUOTE]


dgianstefani said:


> This is one of the most unbalanced builds i've seen.
> 
> Don't spend twice the price of your CPU on your motherboard.
> 
> ...



Already have 2 SSD, one is a 500Gb samsung EVO860, spending another 100 for an NVMe is not on immediate plans, so i was eying a Kingston for 50 for OS only...
The MB is to be future proof...
Ty for your concern.



Iceni said:


> I just ordered a 3600 system for myself and went through a big list of compromises.
> 
> VRM and chipset were the main things I got wrapped up in when looking at what's what.
> 
> ...



My soundcard is a 7.1 with a beefy front panel, 7.1 cards are hard to come by and with the features it will be upwards 200€, so getting a good onboard chip might do it for now and then maybe even invest on a good DAC, had one before, it was disappointing compared with my soundcard...
I do have a 7.1 speaker kit, i also though about a full fledged HI-Fi receiver...

It's just that the X570 Prime have all i want in a MB for an 100€ more over equivalent X470 solutions...

As for the RAM, maybe i will go for a cheaper kit then...


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## ASOT (Apr 5, 2020)

X570 mobo,ram 3000 - 3200


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## Iceni (Apr 5, 2020)

djisas said:


> My soundcard is a 7.1 with a beefy front panel, 7.1 cards are hard to come by and with the features it will be upwards 200€, so getting a good onboard chip might do it for now and then maybe even invest on a good DAC, had one before, it was disappointing compared with my soundcard...



Have you looked on any of the content creation forums to see if anyone has managed to get a Pci soundcard to run correctly with a PCI-E to Pci convertor? There will be threads somewhere on the web where someone has at least tried to do that.

If they have it may be worth a gamble on a convertor and some PCI-E riser cables so you can at least have a chance to continue using it.

There are also the Pci 32bit riser cables that may be more suited. If your case has a free slot or one of the sideways slots then this may work. It'll be a ghetto mod at it's best, but if it works then it solves most of your current budget problems.

Something like this








						1* PCI Express PCIE To PCI Adapter Card 1083 Chip Riser Extender Accessories | eBay
					

Find great deals for 1* PCI Express PCIE To PCI Adapter Card 1083 Chip Riser Extender Accessories. Shop with confidence on eBay!



					www.ebay.co.uk
				




Paired with something like this









						32 Bit PCI Riser Card Flexible Extender Extension Ribbon Cable Cord 19cm 1U 2U  | eBay
					

Perfect for small computer & server case, like 1U 2U & 4U. 32 Bit PCI Riser Card Flexible Extender Flex Extension Ribbon Cable Cord 190mm for PC Server. PCI male to female riser card extender. 32 Bit flexible PCI riser slot extender cable adapter.



					www.ebay.co.uk
				




So you don't have to deal with the height difference. Might work, no promises tho.

If it does work then it shouldn't introduce significant latency to the PCI card because the older 32bit interface was a lot slower than PCIE.


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## TheLostSwede (Apr 5, 2020)

I'd recommend this RAM.








						Patriot Viper Steel DIMM Kit 16GB, DDR4-3600, CL17-19-19-39 ab € 59,88 (2023) | Preisvergleich Geizhals EU
					

✔ Preisvergleich für Patriot Viper Steel DIMM Kit 16GB, DDR4-3600, CL17-19-19-39 ✔ Bewertungen ✔ Produktinfo ⇒ Typ: DDR4 DIMM 288-Pin • Takt: 3600MHz • Module: 2x 8GB • JEDEC: PC4-28800U… ✔ Speicher ✔ Testberichte ✔ Günstig kaufen




					geizhals.eu
				



I've had very good success with it in my rig and I run four 8GB modules at CAS16 (see system spec).
It's affordable and performs well, however it doesn't like to run using XMP settings, so manual settings are required.
3600MHz RAM is a nice speed for Ryzen 3000 CPUs and these modules can run faster than that.


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## puma99dk| (Apr 5, 2020)

If you go X470 chipset choose wisely on what to look at and avoid bad boards with crappy VRM solutions.

On my AMD Ryzen 9 3900X I am using a MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC becasue it ticked all my requirements and I don't need PCI-E Gen. 4 since I don't want to do any upgrade current because I am happy with everything else.

I using a Delock USB Type-C to Type-A adapter so I can use the USB Type-C port for normal usb devices since I don't have any USB type-c devices I use.
Link: https://www.delock.com/produkte/G_65519/merkmale.html


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## djisas (Apr 5, 2020)

This kit https://www.gskill.com/product/165/...VDDR4-3600MHz-CL16-19-19-39-1.35V16GB-(2x8GB) for 98€, 18more than the cheapo team kit.
Same Latency as the expensive kit...


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## R2DSF (Apr 6, 2020)

djisas said:


> MB im not sure whether X470 or X570, to note that SATA ports are important, and so is the audio quality since I will lose my soundcard, I may buy a cheap NVMe drive for OS only.


Do you really needs in Multi GPU configuration or PCI-e 4.0 lanes? 
May be you shoud look at ASUS TUF B450-PRO Gaming? 


djisas said:


> And for RAM


What about Crucial Ballistix memory on Micron E-Die chips? 


Spoiler: R5 3600 + Micron E-Die


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## djisas (Apr 6, 2020)

R2DSF said:


> Do you really needs in Multi GPU configuration or PCI-e 4.0 lanes?
> May be you shoud look at ASUS TUF B450-PRO Gaming?
> 
> What about Crucial Ballistix memory on Micron E-Die chips?
> ...



I'm limited to what i can find in shops for reasonable price, but i will look it up for the ram...
Not quite interested in B450 boards, it's not like a 50€ would make a difference over maybe a TUF470...

Im thinking if I could sell my junk, for around 300ish, budget would be trough the roof...


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## R2DSF (Apr 6, 2020)

djisas said:


> Not quite interested in B450 boards


Most X470 boards has crappy voltage regulator (worse than on B450) except some top tier boards.
Most X570 boards has unfortunate location of the chipset (it will cook in own juice when GPU at heavy load), except for some Crosshairs from Asus and some MEG from Microstar.


djisas said:


> i will look it up for the ram...


Do that. Because it very reasonable RAM. I's cheap but has good OC potential. 


Spoiler: Some Micron E-die OC's on Zen 2.


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## TheLostSwede (Apr 6, 2020)

djisas said:


> I'm limited to what i can find in shops for reasonable price, but i will look it up for the ram...
> Not quite interested in B450 boards, it's not like a 50€ would make a difference over maybe a TUF470...
> 
> Im thinking if I could sell my junk, for around 300ish, budget would be trough the roof...


Crucial sell RAM online, ships all over the EU. They're owned by Micron.








						DRAM, Solid State Drive (SSD) & Memory Upgrades
					

Find compatible DRAM memory and SSD upgrades for your PC or Laptop with our Crucial Advisor tool or Crucial System Scanner, with FREE US delivery!




					eu.crucial.com


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## R2DSF (Apr 6, 2020)

djisas said:


> Not quite interested in B450 boards, it's not like a 50€ would make a difference


This difference will allow you buy decent SSD for example.


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## djisas (Apr 6, 2020)

Actually I forgot I was waiting for the B550 boards, but haven't had any news lately...


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## TheLostSwede (Apr 6, 2020)

djisas said:


> Actually I forgot I was waiting for the B550 boards, but haven't had any news lately...


Between now and July. Afraid I don't have any better estimate right now.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Apr 6, 2020)

For RAM, just get a 3200 C14 kit.

Do an AIO for cooler if you can.

Don't overlook MSi or AsRock motherboards either.

Maybe a new case too instead of that one you have from 2005 -> https://www.newegg.com/black-phante...ek_P400-_-11-854-097-_-Product&quicklink=true






						System Builder
					






					uk.pcpartpicker.com


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## djisas (Apr 6, 2020)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> For RAM, just get a 3200 C14 kit.
> 
> Do an AIO for cooler if you can.
> 
> ...



Can't fit a rad anywhere on the case, not even 120mm fans.
I have seen 3200 C14 being close to 3600 C16, dunno if i can even find any...
Now, for the new case, no new case has front bays anymore, and i still have 6 HDD inside and BD-Rom, so currently I cant replace my case, i need to get rid of a lot of stuff before, if ppl saw my cable management they would be scared for life...
Even the psu needs to go, i want a seasonic gold, but, dont think i'm swapping stuff that is still working yet.

Im finding DDR 4000CL18 at better prices than 3600CL16 and even some CL18, would it be a good option, how good are Team ram?


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## oxrufiioxo (Apr 7, 2020)

Team in my experiences is just as good as Corsair or G.skill ram typically at a lower price..... I used Team T force Legend 3200 CL14 in almost every build I do for gaming as of late.

I've actually had better luck with Team vs Corsair in ryzen builds as far as it just working without needing to manually tinker.

The 4000CL18 would be a good option as long as you want to manually tweak it down to 3600/3800 depending on if your CPU can do 1900 on the IF and then tightening the timings as far down as they will 
go.


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## tabascosauz (Apr 7, 2020)

@djisas If <125mm height air coolers only, don't go with the D9L. Either the U9S or the C14S will outperform it and be your best bet, the U9S slightly and the C14S by a significant margin. However, with the C14S you have to ensure that the socket area and RAM will not present any clearance issues. But without resorting to water or conventional 120mm towers, the C14S is pretty much the undisputed king.

I'd be comfortable letting the C14S handle a 3900X, but on a D9L or U9S, I'd stick to a 3700X or lesser. On the topic of the C14S, if you're like me and many other ITX builders with clearance considerations, you can email Noctua to get them to send you fan clips for 120mm fans instead of 140mms on the C14S once you own the cooler. But since you're using standard sized boards, you should be fine. You'll probably want to use the usual orientation, heatpipes to the west and the cooler "pointing" to the east.

The biggest leg up that the C14S has is the sheer noise advantage from using A14s (or A12s if you use 120mm clips) as opposed to the other two's A9s.

The C14S is the same height as the D9L when the fan is mounted below the heatsink, and doesn't have heatpipe ends poking out on top either. Also arguably a more "self-sufficient" cooler that doesn't rely on case airflow quite as much as the D9L and U9S do.


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## moproblems99 (Apr 7, 2020)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Unless that ram is CL 16-16-16-36 I wouldn't spend extra on it over the other kits.



I second this.  I own the Trident Neos and it is one purchase I regret.  I was able to get mine to 3800 at basically the same timings but my Oloy's that I am going to test soon already show the same promise for almost half the price.  That said, hitting 3800 is more on the CPU than the ram.


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## Darmok N Jalad (Apr 7, 2020)

Like others have said, getting a premium motherboard and then running mid-range CPU and GPU doesn't make the most sense--you won't be pushing your board that hard. I think you should reevaluate the purpose of the NVMe drive. Put Windows on a SATA SSD, and get the biggest NVMe drive you can for games and other content where fast load times are most noticeable. Windows and your basic apps will load plenty fast on a SATA SSD. Save the fast storage for programs that can use the speed. I'd rather see you get a basic board (B450 Tomahawk MAX is a good one) and move up to a 3700X and get a big NVMe drive.


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## ASOT (Apr 7, 2020)

I have the 3600x with ram 3000 cl15 pretty ok for anyone..if u want to go higher get 3200 cl14 cl15 at default ryzen bandwith 3200


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## djisas (Apr 7, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> @djisas If <125mm height air coolers only, don't go with the D9L. Either the U9S or the C14S will outperform it and be your best bet, the U9S slightly and the C14S by a significant margin. However, with the C14S you have to ensure that the socket area and RAM will not present any clearance issues. But without resorting to water or conventional 120mm towers, the C14S is pretty much the undisputed king.
> 
> I'd be comfortable letting the C14S handle a 3900X, but on a D9L or U9S, I'd stick to a 3700X or lesser. On the topic of the C14S, if you're like me and many other ITX builders with clearance considerations, you can email Noctua to get them to send you fan clips for 120mm fans instead of 140mms on the C14S once you own the cooler. But since you're using standard sized boards, you should be fine. You'll probably want to use the usual orientation, heatpipes to the west and the cooler "pointing" to the east.
> 
> ...



There's also the U9B dual fan for about 5€ extra, for the NH-C14S, it looks like overkill, but i guess in cooling, there is no such thing, tolerances on this one will be pretty close, my case has an internal door\bracket with fans on the side and that's what's causing the clearance issues, the rest will be the usual ram, MB, graphic card and psu clearance, i think it should be no problem...


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## tabascosauz (Apr 7, 2020)

djisas said:


> There's also the U9B dual fan for about 5€ extra, for the NH-C14S, it looks like overkill, but i guess in cooling, there is no such thing, tolerances on this one will be pretty close, my case has an internal door\bracket with fans on the side and that's what's causing the clearance issues, the rest will be the usual ram, MB, graphic card and psu clearance, i think it should be no problem...



U9B SE2 is really, really old. It's 10 years old now, and I've had mine for 7. It's good, but D9L and U9S beat it with only 1 fan. Onward march of progress and whatnot.

The C14S is just in a league of its own and its only drawback is having to work out socket area clearance to make sure nothing interferes (should only be a problem for ITX boards). Bigger fan = more air + pressure = lower speeds = much less noise. The A9 is a great fan, but it can't overcome the physics of only being a 92mm fan.

Ryzen 3000 is a weird animal and you ideally want as much heatsink as you can get (ie. C14S). The D9L and U9S aren't thermally challenged by a 3600 or 3700X, but they can't really be made to be quiet on this platform because of their 92mms.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Apr 7, 2020)

djisas said:


> Can't fit a rad anywhere on the case, not even 120mm fans.
> I have seen 3200 C14 being close to 3600 C16, dunno if i can even find any...
> Now, for the new case, no new case has front bays anymore, and i still have 6 HDD inside and BD-Rom, so currently I cant replace my case, i need to get rid of a lot of stuff before, if ppl saw my cable management they would be scared for life...
> Even the psu needs to go, i want a seasonic gold, but, dont think i'm swapping stuff that is still working yet.
> ...



Fractal Designs R6. 5.25" bay, a ton of hard drive slots (6x 3.5/2.5 slots, 2x 2.5 only bays). Thats just one example of a newer case that would fit everything you have and allow for an AIO. And doesn't look like an eye sore.









						Define R6 Tempered Glass
					

Designed from the ground up, the Define R6 goes beyond iteration with a profound stride of innovation – a sizeable step forward from preceding models of the world-renowned Define Series.




					www.fractal-design.com
				




Pair it with a Fractal Designs 240mm AIO and call it done.









						Welcome to the Fractal Design Website
					

Fractal Design is a leading designer and manufacturer of premium PC hardware including cases, cooling, power supplies and accessories.




					www.fractal-design.com


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## Tatty_One (Apr 7, 2020)

djisas said:


> Can't fit a rad anywhere on the case, not even 120mm fans.
> I have seen 3200 C14 being close to 3600 C16, dunno if i can even find any...
> Now, for the new case, no new case has front bays anymore, and i still have 6 HDD inside and BD-Rom, so currently I cant replace my case, i need to get rid of a lot of stuff before, if ppl saw my cable management they would be scared for life...
> Even the psu needs to go, i want a seasonic gold, but, dont think i'm swapping stuff that is still working yet.
> ...


My case which is a mid tower has a front bay ( I also have a BD drive in it), 8 3.5 bays and 3 2.5's, it also has versatile cooling options all the way up to 360mm AIO's …………………...






						Phanteks Innovative Computer Hardware Design
					






					www.phanteks.com


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## djisas (Apr 7, 2020)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Fractal Designs R6. 5.25" bay, a ton of hard drive slots (6x 3.5/2.5 slots, 2x 2.5 only bays). Thats just one example of a newer case that would fit everything you have and allow for an AIO. And doesn't look like an eye sore.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Plz, are you saying my case looks like an eyesore? 
It might look one on the inside but it has a fantastic and solid front...

Well, it's showing it's age, but I dont need it yet, that would end up costing me upwards 200€ more i'm sure...
Cool case though...

I'm thinking maybe doing incremental upgrades, going with a 3600 now, 3700X will literally cost the double for marginal 1080p gains and I an go for a 4600 or 4700 sometime in the future, I can upgrade the gpu to rdna 2 as well, new case in the future, new psu...

For now I set my budget around 600 just for MB, CPU, RAM.
Don't want to spend 200€ on a 1TB NVMe, maybe 50 on a 256GB to free up the sata SSD or none at all, I will be playing Borderlands 3 for a while and probably wont play anything more demanding in the near future.
That said, if I get buyers for my junk, maybe an improvement here and there, in the end of the day I can sell things for around 300€ (or i think that's what it's worth).
So I fear a B450 might not be ideal for zen 3 or w/e I might end up with in the future, dunno, I got used to buying expensive MB since the p4p800 deluxe...


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## oxrufiioxo (Apr 8, 2020)

The B450 Tomahawk Max is an excellent mobo that can handle the 16 core 3950X easily so it will definitely not limit you going forward at least with CPU choice The B450 Pro Carbon Max is even nicer and also a good choice assuming the retailer isn't doing a crazy markup on it. Nothing wrong with going that route and you're going to lose zero on the performance part 










I know you're not high on it but also the X570 Tuf is very good and not too damaging on the pocket book if you want to stick with asus its nearly identical to the Prime Pro for usually quite a bit cheaper and also comes with wifi unlike the prime. Same PCB/Same Vrm just a slightly different I/O.


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## djisas (Apr 8, 2020)

Ok, so only major diff between B450 and X470 would be PCIe lanes?
AM4 is approaching EOL as of zen 4 2021...
Will keep looking at sales for now...


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## oxrufiioxo (Apr 8, 2020)

djisas said:


> Ok, so only major diff between B450 and X470 would be PCIe lanes?
> AM4 is approaching EOL as of zen 4 2021...
> Will keep looking at sales for now...




X470 is sorta tough the 3 high end boards from Asus/Gigabyte/Asrock are all pretty good but anything lower and its on a board by board basis... Manufacturers really cheaped out on most boards to the point that they're quite a bit worse than the sub 200 X570 boards...

The B450 Tomahawk and Pro Carbon are unique in that they perform just as good if not better than X470 from a VRM perspective while the only major thing you lose is SLI which is pretty dead anyways.
Considering this its also somewhat shocking how bad MSI X570 boards under the Unify are. There is a Tomahawk X570 board coming out but it got delayed into May due to covid that looks really really good for around that 200 price point also it was suppose to fix Msi lineup under the Unify. 









						MSI Unveils The MAG X570 Tomahawk Motherboard, Aiming The $189 Segment This Quarter
					

MSI unveiled their latest X570 motherboard, the MAG X570 Tomahawk which is set to be their most powerful X570 board in the $189 US segment.




					wccftech.com
				




shame it hasn't been released yet as it would probably be my go to sub 200 board the vrm looks pretty amazing and should be pretty close to the unify according to MSI.


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## djisas (Apr 10, 2020)

Ok, i'm revising my strategy.
I've been thinking, so far the only boards I really like are Asus strixx, actually from B450 to X570, the later one is my fav, in terms of design and features, they are the ones i like the most.
I'm ruling out B450, the B450 strixx is really cheap right now but it has weaker vrms\features than X470 and X470 strixx go for upwards 230€. I want an upgrade path to zen 3 and im sure the best B450 boards and most of the X470 will be OK, but all things considered if I want, say a R7 4700, going with X570 would be a better option and I cant rule out pcie 4 either if i want to upgrade storage and the graphic card by the end of the coming year. So probably will end up buying the strixx X570-E.

For the Ram, ruled out the cheapo ddr 3600CL18, maybe upgrade to Gskill ripjaw kit 3600CL16, but team has a couple kits with 4000CL18, these could be tweeked for lower timings and they are only 10 and 20€ apart from the Gskill kit. It's 80€ for cheapo Team ram, 100 for Gskill kit and 110-120 for team kits, again im stretching on the ram but these seem better kits than the trident. Again spending more for marginal performance...

For cpu still going for 3600 for now, the 3700X is double the price, it should be 250€ max not 300+. The cooler i've decided on the Noctua NH-U9S (tx to tabascosauz), the NH-C14S is just to massive for my current case with fan on bottom, I seriously risk not fitting any ram on my MB.

For storage, the Corsair MP510 looks to have the best perf/$ of any ssd I can find, 480Gb for 89€ compared with 250GB options at 50€+.


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## Iceni (Apr 11, 2020)

djisas said:


> For the Ram, ruled out the cheapo ddr 3600CL18, maybe upgrade to Gskill ripjaw kit 3600CL16



I've just ran Thiaphoon burner on my spectrix 3600 CL18 and I was expecting Hynix Cjr chips. Instead I got B-die 20nm. And the calculator is recommending Cl14 @ 1.45v

I've not tested those settings yet, I want to make sure that I'm doing the calculation inputs correctly first, but it does look like some of the cheaper kits are shipping with better chips.




Die Density / Count8 Gb B-die (Boltzmann / 20 nm) / 1 die

XMP Extreme1333 MHz / 16-16-16-39-55 / 1.20 V

XMP Certified1799 MHz / 17-18-18-38-56 / 1.35 V


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## oxrufiioxo (Apr 11, 2020)

Just like any ram ic there are different grades yours likely couldn't qualify for 3600CL16 or 3200CL14.... You may be able to get decent timings out of them still at 3600 it's worth a try you may just need more voltage than the calculator recommends.


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## djisas (Apr 28, 2020)

Alright, bought my shit st week, instaled it during weekend, all went smoothly, all except cable management...
OMFG the cable management on this case, dealing with 7x 80mm fans, plus ancient fan controller and the cable mess gets to the point that I just shove it all outside of sight...

The hardware is an X570 taichi, R5 3600, team group 4000Mhz cl18, WD blue Nvme 1TB...
So far so good, except havent managed to do anything with the ram without pc rebooting, updated the bios so I hope to be able to do 3773 or 3800Cl16, i think those are sweet spot for ryzen, but if anyone know better than this, do tell me how to do it...
Btw, I got Hynix on the lottery...


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## oxrufiioxo (Apr 28, 2020)

For a 3600 you will likely need to stick with 3600 fast or safe setting in dram calculator and maybe experiment.... The 3600 is the most difficult chip from what I've seen and read to get above 1800 on the IF.


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## djisas (Apr 28, 2020)

oxrufiioxo said:


> For a 3600 you will likely need to stick with 3600 fast or safe setting in dram calculator and maybe experiment.... The 3600 is the most difficult chip from what I've seen and read to get above 1800 on the IF.



I tried the calculator, had no clue how it works, need to give it another try...


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## Cranky5150 (Apr 28, 2020)

My one experience with x570 was with Asrock...WORST board i have ever used bar none. (x570 Steel Legend)


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## djisas (Apr 28, 2020)

Cranky5150 said:


> My one experience with x570 was with Asrock...WORST board i have ever used bar none. (x570 Steel Legend)



I really really wanted the strixx-E, but the taichi had good reviews and looked cooler...
To late to regret...


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## harm9963 (Apr 28, 2020)

AMD Ryzen Memory Tweaking & Overclocking Guide
					

Memory overclocking has a significant impact on performance of AMD Ryzen-powered machines, but the alleged complexity of memory tweaking on this platform, largely fueled by misinformation and lack of documentation, has kept some enthusiasts away from it. We want to change this.




					www.techpowerup.com


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## moproblems99 (Apr 28, 2020)

djisas said:


> I really really wanted the strixx-E, but the taichi had good reviews and looked cooler...
> To late to regret...



My Taichi is totally fine but the UEFI kinda sucks.  Other than that, solid board.


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## Super XP (Apr 28, 2020)

Going with the Asus ROG Strix X570-F Gaming -300€  is the better deal. I would stick to the x570 chipset with Ryzen 3000 series over the x470 IMO.


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## moproblems99 (Apr 28, 2020)

Super XP said:


> Going with the Asus ROG Strix X570-F Gaming -300€  is the better deal. I would stick to the x570 chipset with Ryzen 3000 series over the x470 IMO.



I have one of each and I don't really see an advantage.


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## Super XP (Apr 29, 2020)

moproblems99 said:


> I have one of each and I don't really see an advantage.


New newer chipset that supports PCIe4 versus 3 is an advantage in itself.


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## moproblems99 (Apr 29, 2020)

Super XP said:


> New newer chipset that supports PCIe4 versus 3 is an advantage in itself.



Minimal if at all.  GPUs aren't exactly saturating them.  And the advantage for SSDs is basically realized at SATA3.  Sure, you get a boost but only in sustained writes of large files where the filesystem overhead isn't the bottleneck.

Don't get me wrong, you may as well get X570, but I wouldn't call it a disadvantage to get X470 or even B450.


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## djisas (Apr 29, 2020)

moproblems99 said:


> Minimal if at all.  GPUs aren't exactly saturating them.  And the advantage for SSDs is basically realized at SATA3.  Sure, you get a boost but only in sustained writes of large files where the filesystem overhead isn't the bottleneck.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, you may as well get X570, but I wouldn't call it a disadvantage to get X470 or even B450.



I think it depends on price and features, if the same model on both chipset has a 50€ difference, I think the extra 50 may be worth the extra features, in my case all the extra sata goodness is a plus, as for pcie 4, maybe in 2 years I can make use of it with a brand spanking new graphic card, or maybe not, we will see...

Edit: A couple things, on device manager there are a few unknown pci devices, i have no clue what they are, i have installed all the lan and audio drivers, only thing i think is missing is rgb software, any idea what those are?
I have set my pc to go into sleep when idle for to long, like i had on my old system, thing is, keyboard or mouse wont wake it up, only power button, it's not set up to hibernate, but to sleep mode. I have checked on setting and both KB and mouse are allowed to wake system up...


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## djisas (May 4, 2020)

Alright, finally at my 3rd attempt got the rams in a decent spot, 3600CL16.
This is all a learning experience and i figure my rams aren't particularly great, but they were the cost of decent 3600CL18 kits, so in the end that G.Skill trident Z 3600CL18 on sale for 99€ might have been the better choice, but then again, would have to mess with timings to get better performance


.

Something worth mentioning, X570 fan is stupidly annoying at high rpm, but you can tame it on the bios or with ASRock tuning utility, I have set mine idle up to 60ºC.
For now i have to deal with a stupid cooler master 80mm that I think it's running at 100% probably not properly connected to the fan controller...


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## TheLostSwede (May 4, 2020)

djisas said:


> Alright, finally at my 3rd attempt got the rams in a decent spot, 3600CL16.
> This is all a learning experience and i figure my rams aren't particularly great, but they were the cost of decent 3600CL18 kits, so in the end that G.Skill trident Z 3600CL18 on sale for 99€ might have been the better choice, but then again, would have to mess with timings to get better performanceView attachment 153811.
> 
> Something worth mentioning, X570 fan is stupidly annoying at high rpm, but you can tame it on the bios or with ASRock tuning utility, I have set mine idle up to 60ºC.
> For now i have to deal with a stupid cooler master 80mm that I think it's running at 100% probably not properly connected to the fan controller...


Your tRFC seems very high, I would try and tune that down. Is that SAFE or FAST settings?
If it's SAFE, try FAST, as it'll make a big difference.
You should also be able to tune the tRC setting down a bit.
This is why I'm running on my Hynix CJR modules.








						Ryzen DRAM Calculator by 1usmus
					

Is there anyone here who could give a novice a hand? This is my first build in like a decade and I bought the memory I did because I wasn't comfortable with doing timings manually and several places I read/watched said this was a good kit to just stick in, set xmp, and go. Unfortunately it won't...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




These are the timings I get out of the FAST settings using the calculator. As you can see, my actual settings are a fair bit tighter, but at lower DRAM Voltage.
You might also want to install Taiphoon burner and read the SPD data from there and import it into the DRAM calculator to see if it spits out some better timings.


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## Caring1 (May 4, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Your tRFC seems very high, I would try and tune that down. Is that SAFE or FAST settings?
> If it's SAFE, try FAST, as it'll make a big difference.
> You should also be able to tune the tRC setting down a bit.
> This is why I'm running on my Hynix CJR modules.
> ...


Your Ram is single rank, his are dual rank, timings will differ.


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## TheLostSwede (May 4, 2020)

Caring1 said:


> Your Ram is single rank, his are dual rank, timings will differ.


I have four sticks, so dual rank...
That screenshot was admittedly old, as I grabbed it from an old thread here, since I don't have access to my system right now.
However, I didn't have to tweak any of those settings beyond 0.1V extra on the DRAM Voltage to run all four modules at those settings.
On top of that, I don't expect the timings to be identical, I just made some suggestions on what to look at if you read my post.


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## djisas (May 4, 2020)

Im happy that it booted, that is safe setting and DRAM read with Taiphoon...
I have the fast data here, might try it later...
And actually, i don't know if it's single or dual rank.
From the html file created by Taiphoon It has:

Number of DIMM Ranks:1


DRAM Device Die Count:Single die

Would this mean it's actually single rank memory and I was getting the setting for dual rank.
I will save these bios settings, since they work and further explore this...


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## TheLostSwede (May 4, 2020)

djisas said:


> Im happy that it booted, that is safe setting and DRAM read with Taiphoon...
> I have the fast data here, might try it later...
> And actually, i don't know if it's single or dual rank.
> From the html file created by Taiphoon It has:
> ...


Right, that's single right indeed. The single rank timings are looking a lot better and more in line with what I'd expect. Note that you don't have to change them all as I pointed out. Down to tRC is enough, plus tRFC and procODT is enough in my experience. It saves a lot of time. 
Next, if you want to play, you could try 3733, it might work with the same timings, but it depends on your CPU and IF bus.


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## Caring1 (May 5, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> I have four sticks, so dual rank...


You seem to have Rank and Channel confused.


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## djisas (May 5, 2020)

Caring1 said:


> You seem to have Rank and Channel confused.



I had no clue before either, had to dig a little to figure it out, these things where unimportant on the old days of intel and ddr3, just set it to xmp and forget...


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## tabascosauz (May 5, 2020)

djisas said:


> I had no clue before either, had to dig a little to figure it out, these things where unimportant on the old days of intel and ddr3, just set it to xmp and forget...



Forgot to check in with you, how's the U9S working out for you? Any struggles with handling the 3600 in that case?


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## TheLostSwede (May 5, 2020)

Caring1 said:


> You seem to have Rank and Channel confused.


Nope, not at all. It's impossible to run quad channel on an X570 board. It's still only dual channel with four modules. But four single rank modules ends up as dual rank in a dual channel board.


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## djisas (May 5, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Forgot to check in with you, how's the U9S working out for you? Any struggles with handling the 3600 in that case?



Great, it can probably run passive at idle, temps are generally under 40º with fan at 600rpm...
Tbh I don't know max temps yet...


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## djisas (May 13, 2020)

Well, everything has been running smoothly, apart from borderlands 3 being party crasher, game is great but poorly optimized and it crashes at random, it's a well known issue...

But today im here to discuss power supplies.
I have ever had 3 in over 15 years, actually near 20.
The first had great marketing and was on every tech magazine, so I bought it, it was so bad i rma'd a motherboard, memory sticks, and tv capture card, had a p4 back in teh day and turning HT on would crash the pc, voltages would fluctuate like 20%, i only figured it out after it burned all that hardware and started monitoring voltages, replaced with a Seasonic S12 and it worked like a clock.
Replaced it with my current Zalman, a pretty cool psu when it was new, i needed a stronger psu for my Ati radeon HD2900XT.

Now after the upgrade, or while at it, decided to open it up and clean 10 years of accumulated dust and now I found out a loud coil or rattling noise only under gaming, it's not the fan rubbing some wire, because there are huge instantaneous variations in loudness and picth, not progressive like a fan ramping up.
So this being a very old unit it's time to go back to the market, and I have been eying some of the new seasonic 750-850W units. 
I would like to hear opinions on this mater and what psus everyone likes.

Btw, my pc doesnt wake from sleep unless I press power button, maybe it's psu related, I wonder with the new hardware and all...

On a side note, this machine is at the lowest noise ouput ever, even with a chipset fan...


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