# Do any NVMe PCIe 4.0 MLC or SLC drives exist?



## DavidZemon (Oct 4, 2019)

I was quite surprised when I noticed that _all_ of the PCIe 4 SSDs that I've found so far are TLC. Having learned about the smart caching that comes on QLC drives (and I can only assume TLC as well), I'm concerned about buying a TLC drive that "just fits" what I need it to. Are there any MLC PCIe 4 drives out there? Has anyone run any tests on a nearly-full PCIe 4 TLC drive to see if it can still come close to advertised speeds?

Having the above background info should help me decide: do I go 1 TB TLC + X570 (to ensure lots of free space for SLC cache), 512 GB TLC + X570 (if cache is for some reason not an issue) or 512 GB MLC + B450?


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## tabascosauz (Oct 4, 2019)

First of all, on no consumer SSD is it advisable to fill the drive to "near-full", unless you like intentionally crippling it's performance.

When it comes to TLC, almost every product on the market is a 3D TLC product. The 64-layer technology is mature and reliable, and is not the same beast as the 840 EVO planar TLC nightmare.

If it is MLC you are looking for and you won't settle for anything less for some bizarre reason, the 970 Pro retains 3D MLC and has the endurance and price tag to match.

If somehow even its endurance isn't enough, you're looking in the wrong market, and better have the deep pockets to play in the enterprise market.

To your point that PCIe 4.0 is what you want, you'll have to wait. But given the rarity of MLC on 3.0 drives, it's highly unlikely you're going to find the MLC you want on 4.0. All 4.0 has done so far is allow users bragging rights when it comes to rather impractical sequential speeds, the meat of the matter in random performance remains about the same. Just like with x16 devices like GPUs, you're months to years too early to reap the actual benefits of PCIe 4.0.

If anything, when 4.0 products begin saturating the market at large, you'll see an ever increasing influx of QLC SSDs, as that is the inevitable trend of things. No one knows if Samsung will even succeed the 970 Pro with another MLC drive. If you want consistent performance, just forget about MLC and stick to TLC, unless you have the cash for a 970 Pro.


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## DavidZemon (Oct 4, 2019)

The 970 evo is mlc and carries a very reasonable price tag.

But that's interesting to hear you say that the random performance isn't very different with gen 4. I'll do more research, specifically looking into that. If that's really the case, I'll save the money and go B450 with a 970 EVO or EVO Plus


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## tabascosauz (Oct 4, 2019)

DavidZemon said:


> The 970 evo is mlc and carries a very reasonable price tag.
> 
> But that's interesting to hear you say that the random performance isn't very different with gen 4. I'll do more research, specifically looking into that. If that's really the case, I'll save the money and go B450 with a 970 EVO or EVO Plus



No it isn't. "3-bit MLC" is TLC.

Only the 970 Pro is MLC (2-bit MLC). Samsung loves throwing people for a loop instead of just calling it TLC.


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## MazeFrame (Oct 4, 2019)

PCIe Gen4 drives for "I want software to start quick" make no sense. For scratch drives for video editing, 3D-work and massive code basis, they make sense.

Access time is not going to come down unless a new type of memory comes up, or someone figures out how to make "lockable DRAM".

Endurance is a non-issue for home use.
I think in 2015 and 2016 many computer sites/magazines took the available SSDs at the time into the torture chamber.
From my mind, the noteably bad once were a Corsair Neutron drive that arround the 1 Petabyte written mark suddenly reloacted sectores like a Seagate drive, the Samsung 840 that could not even make 100TB without relocating and the Intel 335 commiting suicide on reboot.
What I also remember were Kingston and Samsung Pro series marching on and on way past 2 PB written.


As for the issue at hand:
1) How much data do you have to store at maximum?
2) When going with a 3700x (or better) and you are over the 1300€ or $ mark, go for X570


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## DavidZemon (Oct 4, 2019)

This will be for a high-end development machine, with a 3900x or 3950x.

I did not realize Samsung EVOs were 3-bit... but...



> *STORAGE MEMORY*
> Samsung V-NAND 3-bit MLC


https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/product/consumer/970evo/
right there on the website... wow... you're absolutely right. I'm really surprised at that...  Thank you for setting the record straight. In that case, given the similar price between a 970 EVO and MP600, might as well get the MP600 and X570. I suppose a 970 EVO + B450 might shave $50-$80 off... which might be worth it... we'll see. But good to know I shouldn't be expecting any real difference between these.

Wow... this is sure telling: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/pci-express-4-0-nvme-ssd-test-amd-x570-ryzen-3000/
I thought PCIe 4 would provide at least _some_ improvement to random, sort of like the jump from SATA to NVMe, but clearly not.
Thanks again.


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## Zach_01 (Oct 16, 2019)

Yes, PCI-E 4.0 at this point offers nothing for real life usage out of NVMe performance...
RAID-0 arrays too...


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## Ferrum Master (Oct 16, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> First of all, on no consumer SSD is it advisable to fill the drive to "near-full", unless you like intentionally crippling it's performance.



Optane is the only exception. That's why I like it. It stupidly stable, no matter what you do. Even full.


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