# Plasma replacement - to LED or not to LED



## andersun9 (Sep 13, 2021)

I'm currently sitting on a little over 10-year old mid-range Plasma TV (50" Samsung C680) and thinking about whether it is worthwhile to upgrade or not with my current usage. Distance to TV is about 2.5 meters with windows to the west (=sun coming in during afternoon and evening).

*Usage*:
*Sports: 70%* (Football, Ice hockey, Tennis, esport)  with only about 5% of broadcasts available in 4k, rest in 1080
*News:* *10%* Watch news for like 20 mins when eating and getting myself ready for work
*Movies: 20% *(1080 is basically what is offered as streaming in Sweden)
*Gaming*: Tiny and only casual today. Mostly uses PC. If anything, RPG with lots of static HUD's

What I have read is that OLED would be the "natural" replacement coming from Plasma. Still, I'm concerned about the static logos from ~80% of my viewing, so considering going for LED as I would like to keep the TV for a similar length as the current one, and I can't imagine an OLED not burning out in 10 years.

As I have understood, Sony has the best motion handling, so I was thinking about the XJ95, but with the disappointing review from Ratings and the high price, I'm a bit torn about what to do. Keep the plasma; it's not like I think the picture it provides is terrible, or go with, i.e., XH95, which lacks HDMI 2.1, or additional options are there? What size would you consider with a 2.5 m viewing distance, 55" or 65"?


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 13, 2021)

andersun9 said:


> What I have read is that OLED would be the "natural" replacement coming from Plasma. Still, I'm concerned about the static logos


I have had an LG OLED for about 5 years now. No problems with logo or blue LEDs. Note that any decent OLED will have features to mitigate those potential problems. 

Do note a logo would have to sit in the exact same place for hour upon hour upon hour - over and over again. How likely is that? Do you never change channels? 

Besides that, most quality TVs have a feature that senses when a logo appears and will gently move that logo a few pixels here, then a few pixels there just to prevent burn in. And it works.


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## cvaldes (Sep 13, 2021)

Current LG OLEDs have three features to reduce burn-in risk that old plasma units did not have.

The first one is Pixel Cleaning which happens automatically after a cumulative amount of usage. It basically resets the pixels when the TV is asleep. This can be manually invoked.

The second one is Screen Move which regularly moves the image by a couple of pixels. This can be disabled.

The third one is Adjust Logo Brightness. The TV's CPU looks for what it thinks is a logo and attempts to locally dim those pixels. The settings are: Low, High, and Off.

Generally speaking burn-in is not an issue for typical consumer usage, it's more of a possibility with showroom demo units or if you were using it exclusively as a computer monitor neither of which is your usage case.

From a gaming perspective, OLEDs crush LEDs in response time.

I am a very satisfied owner of an LG-OLED55C1PUB (55" C1 OLED). My TV usage is probably 50% general TV programs and movies, 30% sports, and 20% gaming. I bought the TV primarily for the Nvidia G-Sync despite the fact that I game less on my TV than other activities. Picture quality is great and I am typically seated about 2 m. away from the screen. I am not using the TV's built-in speakers, all audio is handled by an A/V receiver with decent tower speakers, center channel and powered subwoofer. My particular situation does not pose any challenges concerning bright sunlight or reflections from room lights.

I highly recommend you visit a bricks-and-mortar store and view the image quality of your candidate units with your own eyes These aren't cheap toys and you'll be staring at the screen for years, make sure you know fully aware of what you are buying. Use a retailer that has some sort of decent return policy just in case whatever you buy doesn't work for your particular environment.


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## elghinnarisa (Sep 13, 2021)

OLED and plasma share the same affinity for burn in, so if it was not a worry with your current plasma, it should not be with a OLED either.

Image retention can occur at times, its a temporary thing. But to worry about burn in in general, you need a solid static image on there for a lot of hours, a whole day with the same static image more or less. And most logos are semi-transparent these days, so its fine.
TVs have some kind of settings for it, like pixel rotation or pixel shift. Which if i recall the sony tv's do indeed have and im pretty sure most other models have a feature for it either way.

When it comes to "motion" or what not, ignore all that. Disable all the extra features. On the sony example in this case they have the XR motion and XR color, XR clarity etc etc. just turn all of it off, it does more to harm your picture than help it.


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 13, 2021)

cvaldes said:


> I highly recommend you visit a bricks-and-mortar store and view the image quality of your candidate units with your own eyes


I agree but do remember many manufacturers and retail outlets adjust brightness and contrast to provide the brightest image on the showroom floor. This is because, to the untrained eye, we humans perceive brighter, high contrasting images as better quality - when in reality, it is often not realistic. This is also why some users will go through the time and expense [typically a good idea] to have a new, big screen TV properly calibrated, only to go back in and change the settings back - instead of giving their brains time to get used to the new, and properly calibrated settings.


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## TheLostSwede (Sep 13, 2021)

I presume you have a pretty decent budget, considering you're eyeing OLED TVs?
Have you considered mini LED? I would say that is more the natural transition from plasma, compared to OLED.
Something along the lines of this








						Philips launches new LCD TVs with HDMI 2.1, miniLED & Ambilight
					

From affordable to high-end




					www.flatpanelshd.com
				



or this








						LG announces EU pricing & availability for 2021 "QNED" LCD TVs
					

High-end LCD will be getting a lot more expensive this year




					www.flatpanelshd.com


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## andersun9 (Sep 13, 2021)

Bill_Bright said:


> Do you never change channels?


Not yet changed


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 13, 2021)

andersun9 said:


> Not yet changed


Not buying that. You already indicated you watch the news and movies. Perhaps "channels" was too specific. Perhaps inputs or sources, as well as channels would have been better. 

Even so, even networks move their logs around, depending on the programming, commercials, etc.


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## phanbuey (Sep 13, 2021)

Bill_Bright said:


> I have had an LG OLED for about 5 years now. No problems with logo or blue LEDs. Note that any decent OLED will have features to mitigate those potential problems.
> 
> Do note a logo would have to sit in the exact same place for hour upon hour upon hour - over and over again. How likely is that? Do you never change channels?
> 
> Besides that, most quality TVs have a feature that senses when a logo appears and will gently move that logo a few pixels here, then a few pixels there just to prevent burn in. And it works.



I am on one year of the CX as a desktop monitor (read static stuff all the time) and no burn in yet.

If it doesn't burn in soon i wont be able to use my BB warranty.


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## fluxc0d3r (Sep 13, 2021)

I have used a Panasonic Plasma extensively throughout the years, I was the first to pre-order a 1080P Panasonic plasma back in 2007. Back in 2007, watching just regular DVD's on it just blew me away by the sheer picture quality, more so than any OLED TV that came out after. No modern OLED can match the smooth motion of plasma or the way it naturally displays picture. 

Bought a Sony 1080P 70 inch 3D TV in 2013, biggest regret of my life, and should have paid more and bought the last VT series Panasonic 65" plasmas. 

Fast forward in 2016, so much regret getting an inferior TV that I bought a 2016 LG OLED 65", brand new model for the year. 

Not sure if it had anything to do with 2020 being one of the worst years ever, the LG OLED all of sudden started flickering crazy with flashing white vertical lines across the screen while watching Golf channel. Extremely upset with OLED quality, because my Panasonic Plasma from 2007 still works flawlessly to this day. 

I figure out it was bad T-con board from a local TV technician, and replacement screen on these boards are super expensive like the price for a brand new LG OLED. I decided to take a gamble to fix the LG OLED myself by sourcing a used T-Con board, which did fix the problem almost completely, although I did preorder a top of the line Samsung Q90T 75" for an excellent deal. I am to watch the LG OLED now, but you do notice some very faint vertical banding that wasn't there before it died, it could be a non-calibrated T-Con board or something else. After all it is a used T-con board. Doesn't affect the viewing experience though and it is better than throwing an OLED TV in the trash.

The QLED is amazing, best TV I owned through the years and I would easily choose it over an LG OLED. It is brighter, everything is so much vibrant. It is also much easy to calibrate than an LG OLED, could never get the right colors out of an LG OLED, they tend to have a bluish tint no matter how hard you try to calibrate your picture. Picture noise seems to be higher on the OLED, it does get better over time though.  

I wish they had new Panasonic OLED TVs in North America. My Grandma is still watching on 32" Panasonic Tau TV from 2002 til this day, shows the quality of Panaonic TV over any TV manufacturer.


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## freeagent (Sep 13, 2021)

I have a 40 inch Panasonic plasma in my bedroom. I bought it from a guy at work who needed cash and the price was right. It’s got burn from the weather network. Still looks ok though, love the blacks. My not quite as old LED is “ok”. Looking at oled myself since I have a GPU I can use with it now.


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## RJARRRPCGP (Sep 13, 2021)

"LED", unless it's OLED, are just LCDs in disguise! That means IPS LCDs or VA LCDs for most brands and PLS LCDs for Samsung. QLED is more likely a PLS LCD, unless Samsung decided to make a VA LCD.

Looks like PLS (plane-to-line-switching) is the Samsung version of IPS.

And for Sony? Does Sony even truly manufacture their own LCD panels?


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## v12dock (Sep 13, 2021)

Check out rtings.com article on OLED testing or any TV review (https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/real-life-oled-burn-in-test) they do extremely extensive testing.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 14, 2021)

I only replace TVs when they Fail



freeagent said:


> I have a 40 inch Panasonic plasma in my bedroom. I bought it from a guy at work who needed cash and the price was right. It’s got burn from the weather network. Still looks ok though, love the blacks. My not quite as old LED is “ok”. Looking at oled myself since I have a GPU I can use with it now.


Yup and OLED/AOLED (SAMSUNG) suffer burn in on their phones still


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## Fangio1951 (Sep 14, 2021)

I've just had a warrant replacement processed for my LG OLED 65" C1 PTB 4K AU$6,500.00 unit that suffered severe logo burn in + multiple areas of discolouration after only 2 yrs = had all the mitigations set in the tv settings.

Ended up getting a store credit (Harvey Norman in Au) for a Samsung 65"  QN800A NEO QLED 8K SMART TV (2021) = hopefully this will last a bit longer


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## R-T-B (Sep 14, 2021)

I don't know how you all are managing burn in.  My B9 still has none and I even have the mitigations off.  Just use a screensaver.


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## Ferd (Sep 14, 2021)

For 2.5m I would go for 65”


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## RJARRRPCGP (Sep 14, 2021)

Fangio1951 said:


> I've just had a warrant replacement processed for my LG OLED 65" C1 PTB 4K AU$6,500.00 unit that suffered severe logo burn in


Reminds me of arcade CRTs and the like, yikes!


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## AsRock (Sep 14, 2021)

Bill_Bright said:


> I have had an LG OLED for about 5 years now. No problems with logo or blue LEDs. Note that any decent OLED will have features to mitigate those potential problems.
> 
> Do note a logo would have to sit in the exact same place for hour upon hour upon hour - over and over again. How likely is that? Do you never change channels?
> 
> Besides that, most quality TVs have a feature that senses when a logo appears and will gently move that logo a few pixels here, then a few pixels there just to prevent burn in. And it works.



Yeah i believe they even do it with LED ones too as mine has that thin black border too ( LED ).


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 14, 2021)

andersun9 said:


> I'm currently sitting on a little over 10-year old mid-range Plasma TV (50" Samsung C680) and thinking about whether it is worthwhile to upgrade or not with my current usage. Distance to TV is about 2.5 meters with windows to the west (=sun coming in during afternoon and evening).
> 
> *Usage*:
> *Sports: 70%* (Football, Ice hockey, Tennis, esport)  with only about 5% of broadcasts available in 4k, rest in 1080
> ...


That plasma TV is a power-sucking-space-heater. OLED is highly over-rated, has burn-in problems and is over-priced.

Get a quality 2160P(4k) IPS LCD panel and call it good.


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## RJARRRPCGP (Sep 14, 2021)

A bluish tint? (also purplish tint) =That's what happens to the LG UH6100s, which are LCD, and are prone to getting bad LEDs! That's one of the cheap series out there, LG claims it's 4K, but it can't do real 4K!
1080p looks better than "4K" on the UH6100 series! 

The UH6100 series, is the one that will make you regret dumping plasma! Its "4K" mode while not good for color, is good for piercing my eyes!


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## claes (Sep 14, 2021)

Judging by some of the posts in this thread you’d be better off asking at avsforum than here. Most people don’t get the appeal of plasma (I still have a panny VT ) and it’s value for dark scenes and motion. I’ve never owned an OLED but, as others have pointed out, if you aren’t experiencing burn-in with your plasma you probably won’t with an OLED (IIRC @R-T-B even uses there’s as a PC monitor, so they ought to know if so).


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 14, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> That plasma TV is a power-sucking-space-heater. OLED is highly over-rated, has burn-in problems and is over-priced.
> 
> Get a quality 2160P(4k) IPS LCD panel and call it good.


Id replace the plasma if it ever goes out


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## Chomiq (Sep 14, 2021)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> "LED", unless it's OLED, are just LCDs in disguise! That means IPS LCDs or VA LCDs for most brands and PLS LCDs for Samsung. QLED is more likely a PLS LCD, unless Samsung decided to make a VA LCD.
> 
> Looks like PLS (plane-to-line-switching) is the Samsung version of IPS.
> 
> And for Sony? Does Sony even truly manufacture their own LCD panels?


Samsung QLED is LED with QD layer on top but it can be VA or IPS depending on the model. QN90A is VA, QN85A is IPS. There's also QD-OLED which is going to be Samsung entry into the OLED space but because they've been criticizing OLED for so long in their marketing they will market it as QD Display instead.

I'd say for now stick to your plasma. Next year all LG models should have the new EVO panel with higher peak brightness, currently only the G1 series has it (well, technically some C1 models also share the same panel but you have to hack firmware to fool it into thinking it's a G1).


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 14, 2021)

eidairaman1 said:


> Id replace the plasma if it ever goes out


I've got a plasma TV. It's currently sitting unplugged. It looks ok still, but not like it once did and it can't hold a candle to my 4k TV and at less than half the price. 





						VIZIO Support
					

The VIZIO Support homepage provides the latest trending support topics and support videos, user manuals, product registration, along with tech specs and troubleshooting steps.



					support.vizio.com
				



It's a Quantum LED screen, but it's starting to show just a tad bit of burn-in, something it wasn't supposed to do. And I've only had it for two years. However, it's only noticeable up close and on a pure white screen. Still, it's very pretty, 120hz and doesn't heat up the room to furnace levels like the plasma does.


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## Chomiq (Sep 14, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I've got a plasma TV. It's currently sitting unplugged. It looks ok still, but not like it once did and it can't hold a candle to my 4k TV and at less than half the price.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is it burn in or is it temporary image retention? I had it on my IPS monitor when I had two MS Word windows side by side for 4 hours. You could see the scroll bar in the middle on static background. It went away after the shutdown and it cooled down.


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 14, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> That plasma TV is a power-sucking-space-heater. OLED is highly over-rated, has burn-in problems and is over-priced.


True, not true, definitely not true, and not true any more - as a little homework with Google would show.

Plasmas certainly are "power-sucking-space heaters".

While subjective, technically speaking, OLEDs are not "highly" over-rated. They present a truly gorgeous and accurate image display - as most professional review sites note too.

As noted by v12dock's link, if you display a "static" image for 20 straight hours, day after day, then you might see some burn-in images. But if you watch TV like 99% of the "normal" people in the world (who, depending on your source of information, average less than 5 hours, up to 6 hours of varied - NOT static - content daily), and your OLED is not some antique, entry level, first-gen model, burn-in is NOT a problem.

As far as being over-priced, that's subjective. Some folks may find spending $600 for a 65" TV too much. But as seen in this comparison, LG's OLED and Samsung's QLED 65 inch models cost about the same with the OLED actually being $200 cheaper - and has a better picture too, albeit only slightly.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 14, 2021)

Bill_Bright said:


> True, not true, definitely not true, and not true any more - as a little homework with Google would show.
> 
> Plasmas certainly are "power-sucking-space heaters".
> 
> ...


Explain why my Galaxy A11 has burn in?


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## londiste (Sep 14, 2021)

eidairaman1 said:


> Explain why my Galaxy A11 has burn in?


Doesn't that have an IPS screen? 
Phones have RGB-OLED screens which are more prone to visible burn-in thanks to separate subpixels end their different lifetimes (the blue subpixel being one with the shortest lifetime). Plus, phones generally use more brightness.



TheLostSwede said:


> I presume you have a pretty decent budget, considering you're eyeing OLED TVs?
> Have you considered mini LED? I would say that is more the natural transition from plasma, compared to OLED.
> Something along the lines of this
> 
> ...


There are two main problems with mini LED backlight LCDs:
1. You still need to keep in mind the amount of dimming zones when choosing/buying one
2. Prices for a decent screen are practically at the same level as OLED


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 15, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> Is it burn in or is it temporary image retention?


It's burn-in. It's very faint but it is persistent, even after being turned off for several days.


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## RJARRRPCGP (Sep 15, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I've got a plasma TV. It's currently sitting unplugged. It looks ok still, but not like it once did and it can't hold a candle to my 4k TV and at less than half the price.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LCDs can have a lot of burn-in and/or image retention.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 15, 2021)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> LCDs can have a lot of burn-in and/or image retention.


I've never seen that happen with LCDs. Didn't know it was a thing..


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## Fangio1951 (Sep 15, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I've never seen that happen with LCDs. Didn't know it was a thing..


hi m8,

It happened to my 2018 Samasung 65"  which was replaced with a LG OLED (Same thing happened) which was then replaced a month ago with a Samsung 65" QN800A NEO QLED 8K SMART TV (2021)


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## Ferather (Sep 15, 2021)

Displays should turn off-go idle if there is no activity for x minutes, or use a screen saver if on PC. LCD is more resistant than the previous CRT technology, but I don't think its immune.


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## Chomiq (Sep 15, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I've never seen that happen with LCDs. Didn't know it was a thing..


From rtings:









I never saw it on my VA Bravia from 2014.


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## Ferather (Sep 15, 2021)

Seems I should get IPS (myself).


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 15, 2021)

Fangio1951 said:


> hi m8,
> 
> It happened to my 2018 Samasung 65"  which was replaced with a LG OLED (Same thing happened) which was then replaced a month ago with a Samsung 65" QN800A NEO QLED 8K SMART TV (2021)


Fair enough. I'm not saying it can't happen, just that I've never seen an example of burn-in on an LCD.


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## Chomiq (Sep 15, 2021)

Ferather said:


> Seems I should get IPS (myself).


Terrible contrast and black, for TV use it's not an option.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 15, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> Terrible contrast and black, for TV use it's not an option.


Can't agree with that. IPS is great for TV/Movies.


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## TheLostSwede (Sep 15, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> Is it burn in or is it temporary image retention? I had it on my IPS monitor when I had two MS Word windows side by side for 4 hours. You could see the scroll bar in the middle on static background. It went away after the shutdown and it cooled down.


That happens to me after 5 minutes on this screen... Third panel in total, second panel it's happening on...
Took about a year to start happening on both panels. Very annoying, but so far it goes away. It's not a TV though, but very much IPS.


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## Chomiq (Sep 15, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Can't agree with that. IPS is great for TV/Movies.


Not in a pitch black room.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 15, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> Not in a pitch black room.


Sorry man, can't agree. My son has a 42" IPS based TV and it looks great regardless of light levels. Our disagreement is very likely a panel difference thing as well as a preference thing.


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## Chomiq (Sep 15, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Sorry man, can't agree. My son has a 42" IPS based TV and it looks great regardless of light levels. Our disagreement is very likely a panel difference thing as well as a preference thing.


This is "black" on IPS without local dimming:


			https://i.rtings.com/assets/products/BjuvaNxO/lg-nano90-2021/uniformity-large.jpg
		


This is "black" on a "better" IPS without local dimming:


			https://i.rtings.com/assets/products/ytwr94G4/lg-qned90/uniformity-large.jpg
		


This is "black" on a "better" VA without local dimming:


			https://i.rtings.com/assets/products/kE1LRPul/samsung-qn90a-qled/uniformity-large.jpg


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 15, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I've never seen that happen with LCDs. Didn't know it was a thing..


What? I bet you have. Ever seen an older ATM screen? Or Arrivals and Departures monitors at airports? They used to have burn-in problems all the time until they learned they needed to change the images being displayed on the displays frequently. 

But if you meant on a home computer monitor or TV, then for sure, it is a thing - but like you, I just have never seen it either. 



eidairaman1 said:


> Explain why my Galaxy A11 has burn in?


That's a phone, not a computer monitor or TV. And a little research shows you are not alone as other have reported burn-in issues with the A11. Clearly, Samsung failed to include burn-in mitigation features. 

Burn-in happens. I never said or suggested any type of display is immune from it. But I did clearly say the video content must be varied and "NOT static". 


RJARRRPCGP said:


> LCDs can have a lot of burn-in and/or image retention.


If not mitigated by the manufacturer with the necessary prevention features built into the TV's or monitor's firmware, this is true. 

We also need to remember that burn-in and image retention are not the same thing.


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## RJARRRPCGP (Sep 15, 2021)

Looked like the Panasonic LCD TV that I have sitting around, has TV content burned in, LOL. If not QVC burned in as well, LOL! 
It used to be my father's and mom's. It was built in 2010.


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## R-T-B (Sep 16, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Sorry man, can't agree. My son has a 42" IPS based TV and it looks great regardless of light levels. Our disagreement is very likely a panel difference thing as well as a preference thing.


I mean, IPS is the worst tech for contrast ratio.  It has other positive traits but anyone wanting deep blacks should avoid IPS.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 16, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I mean, IPS is the worst tech for contrast ratio.


No, TN is the worst for contrast, full stop. Even the poorest example of IPS still has better contrast than TN. And yes, TN panels are still being made.


R-T-B said:


> It has other positive traits but anyone wanting deep blacks should avoid IPS.


Can't agree with that. Mostly because it GREATLY depends on perspective and perception, two things that are very highly subjective from person to person.

For example, @Chomiq clearly has very exacting preferences. For them, only a quality LED screen will be acceptable as they want black levels near perfection. But me for example, colour saturation & balance, brightness and clarity of image as well as framerate & latency are far more important specifications. I am willing to forgive less than perfect black levels if the other aspects are delivered and as long as contrast is agreeable, I will be happy with a screen.


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## R-T-B (Sep 16, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> No, TN is the worst for contrast,


I forgot about TN but honestly they aren't good for anything but refresh rate, so same thing applies.



lexluthermiester said:


> two things that are very highly subjective from person to person.


It's not subjective when I just said one of the persons subjective priorities is deep blacks.  Contrast ratio is a measurable quantifiable thing.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 16, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I forgot about TN but honestly they aren't goid for anything but refresh rate, so same thing applies.


Ah, but you highlight a point, preference. Some people prefer high refresh-rate over anything else and are willing to live with other aspects that are less than optimal.

Bringing this back to the OP, ultimately @andersun9 is going to need to visit a store to see the differences in person and decide which features & specifications are most important to them. After that, it just boils down to price.



R-T-B said:


> It's not subjective when I just said one of the persons subjective priorities is deep blacks. Contrast ratio is a measurable quantifiable thing.


While true, who defines "deep blacks"? That is the subjective context. You can define contrast ratio to any number you wish, but in the end it's up to the person making the purchase to decide if the screen looks good to them.


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## R-T-B (Sep 16, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> While true, who defines "deep blacks"?


He's coming from a plasma screen.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 16, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> He's coming from a plasma screen.


Exactly! ANYTHING, including TN, would be a serious contrast improvement by comparison. So a quality IPS panel would be an amazing upgrade! Like night & day difference..


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## Chomiq (Sep 16, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Exactly! ANYTHING, including TN, would be a serious contrast improvement by comparison. So a quality IPS panel would be an amazing upgrade! Like night & day difference..


Wait, what? Plasmas had amazing contrast.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 16, 2021)

Before LCDs could go Large Scale for Residential use there was DLP and Plasma.

Plasma was like a Hybrid of CRT and LCD.

It really wasn't until lcds branched out in designs (VA, TN, IPS, LED/OLED/AOLED) that Plasma was finally discontinued.

Plasma Advantages:
(Like CRT)
Smooth Motion
Refresh Rate (Very High)
High Color Fidelity/Contrast
(Like LCD)
Lighter than a CRT/Rear Projection/DLP
Thinner than a CRT
Less power used than a CRT.

Disadvantages:
Heavier than a LCD
Ran Warmer
Used more power than a LCD.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 16, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> Wait, what? Plasmas had amazing contrast.


Not mine. It's best features were brightness, smoothness and refresh rate. Black-level and contrast were very much less than optimal.


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## Ferather (Sep 16, 2021)

I agree, love all the info, though.



R-T-B said:


> He's coming from a plasma screen.


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## londiste (Sep 16, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Exactly! ANYTHING, including TN, would be a serious contrast improvement by comparison. So a quality IPS panel would be an amazing upgrade! Like night & day difference..


That cannot be correct.
Plasma has/had effectively infinite contrast ratio, similar to OLED and other emissive screens.
Brightness was also quite high even by today's HDR standards on better plasma panels. I seem to remember 1000+nits at high end.

Plasma definitely had problems, flickering, near-black colors, eventual dimming, power especially with 100% white screen etc, but contrast and brightness were definitely not its weaknesses.

What model did you have?


----------



## Valantar (Sep 16, 2021)

Trying to cut through the back-and-forth a bit here: IMO this really comes down to the OP's priorities and specific use case. The choice between OLED and LCD can be made almost entirely based on the level of ambient light in the room where the TV is used. Why? For relatively high end panels (at least LG C and G series and Samsung Q80/90 back before we bought our Q80), reviewers essentially tie them - dependent on ambient light. OLED is clearly superior in a dark room, with its lower black levels and lack of glow (though near-black colors can still be a bit iffy at times). Good FALD LCD screens are clearly superior in any moderately well lit room, as OLED lacks the brightness to overcome strong ambient light (yes, the current generation of panels get brighter, but it's still a major difference, and burn-in risk is higher at higher brightnesses). We went Samsung QLED for that reason, and it's been fantastic - easily bright enough to use even when the sun is shining in through the living room windows, but still plenty good enough when it's dark. (A dark scene in a bright room will always be problematic, though a less reflective coating helps with this.) The room is never pitch black though. It's also worth noting that (at least LG, though I believe all given that they're all LG panels) OLEDs have far more reflective screens than higher end LCDs. This difference is quite easily seen in store demos - just look at how blurry/clear your reflection is in any dark content. At least comparing the LG CX to the Samsung Q80, this was a major difference - and would be the difference between seeing your reflection clearly outlined in a dark scene vs. seeing a vague shape instead.

So: if the room is typically dark, or can be made dark at will without hassle, OLED is likely the way to go. I wouldn't worry about burn-in for TV use (PC use with desktop icons, a taskbar, game UI elements etc. is another thing entirely), and mitigation methods such as logo dimming ought to be reasonably effective. If the room is often even moderately bright, especially if the wall behind you is light colored, a good FALD LED TV is the way to go.

As for response times and motion: yes, OLED has better motion handling and response times, but modern 120Hz TV panels have response times low enough that this almost doesn't matter. And the sharp motion of OLED can even be perceived as jarring and stuttery with 24fps movies and the like (very subjective, but definitely possible)


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 16, 2021)

londiste said:


> What model did you have?


Samsung PN42C450B1D.



Sorry about the focus, cramped angle..


----------



## Bill_Bright (Sep 16, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> While true, who defines "deep blacks"? That is the subjective context.


No it's not. Black (the absence of all color, including white) can be measured with scientific test and measuring equipment. That is, how "black" something is can be specifically defined - it is a fact, not a matter of opinion.



> You can define contrast ratio to any number you wish, but in the end it's up to the person making the purchase to decide if the screen looks good to them.


This is absolutely true. And it goes back to my comments in Post #5 above - where some folks have gone through the trouble of having their new TVs properly calibrated for accuracy, only to then go and change all the settings to what "_looks good to them_".


----------



## phanbuey (Sep 16, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Trying to cut through the back-and-forth a bit here: IMO this really comes down to the OP's priorities and specific use case. The choice between OLED and LCD can be made almost entirely based on the level of ambient light in the room where the TV is used. Why? For relatively high end panels (at least LG C and G series and Samsung Q80/90 back before we bought our Q80), reviewers essentially tie them - dependent on ambient light. OLED is clearly superior in a dark room, with its lower black levels and lack of glow (though near-black colors can still be a bit iffy at times). Good FALD LCD screens are clearly superior in any moderately well lit room, as OLED lacks the brightness to overcome strong ambient light (yes, the current generation of panels get brighter, but it's still a major difference, and burn-in risk is higher at higher brightnesses). We went Samsung QLED for that reason, and it's been fantastic - easily bright enough to use even when the sun is shining in through the living room windows, but still plenty good enough when it's dark. (A dark scene in a bright room will always be problematic, though a less reflective coating helps with this.) The room is never pitch black though. It's also worth noting that (at least LG, though I believe all given that they're all LG panels) OLEDs have far more reflective screens than higher end LCDs. This difference is quite easily seen in store demos - just look at how blurry/clear your reflection is in any dark content. At least comparing the LG CX to the Samsung Q80, this was a major difference - and would be the difference between seeing your reflection clearly outlined in a dark scene vs. seeing a vague shape instead.
> 
> So: if the room is typically dark, or can be made dark at will without hassle, OLED is likely the way to go. I wouldn't worry about burn-in for TV use (PC use with desktop icons, a taskbar, game UI elements etc. is another thing entirely), and mitigation methods such as logo dimming ought to be reasonably effective. If the room is often even moderately bright, especially if the wall behind you is light colored, a good FALD LED TV is the way to go.
> 
> As for response times and motion: yes, OLED has better motion handling and response times, but modern 120Hz TV panels have response times low enough that this almost doesn't matter. And the sharp motion of OLED can even be perceived as jarring and stuttery with 24fps movies and the like (very subjective, but definitely possible)


Brightness is an issue but not the way people think... The oled gets bright -- super bright, much brighter than most gaming monitors but only at about 1/4 - 1/2 of the screen holds that brightness.

This is the biggest drawback to using it as a work monitor is the ABL / DIMMING features, as these are by far the most annoying:
-- i.e. OLEDS can't display a full white screen at full brightness - they dim, so for flashing or like bright games that use white screen effects (when you exit a tunnel into the outside, for example) this is noticeable.
-- if you maximize a WHITE / mostly white browser window full screen (like TPU) this will happen,
-- if you keep the white window up with static content for any amount of time, it will also sense that there is no motion and dim - You can disable this feature but at stock this is what will happen.

Picture quality, especially in moving scenes and games and motion response and input latency are just nuts on it.  Better than any IPS i've had.   It's fast enough for me to comfortably play competitive shooters at 48", with insane visuals.  It also helps that the target is usually the size of a coaster.

If you're mostly doing work / excel and you like white/light themes on the desktop and only game a seldomly then I would get something else.  For gaming there isn't really a much better display, esp if you like HDR.





I also own a Samsung G7 and an Alienware 34DW (ips) and i can say that the OLED is by far the display with the least compromises of them when it comes to visual quality and gaming, and the most when it comes to work.

(2) SECRET LG Oled Menu For BX, CX, GX, WX, And ZX 2020 Models! - YouTube <- definitely do this when you get it, it makes the colors look insane.


----------



## cvaldes (Sep 16, 2021)

Bill_Bright said:


> And it goes back to my comments in Post #5 above - where some folks have gone through the trouble of having their new TVs properly calibrated for accuracy, only to then go and change all the settings to what "_looks good to them_".


Ultimately that's what counts. It's like following a recipe or modifying it because the end result pleases the people at the dinner table.

Maybe tossing in five extra garlic cloves creates something out of balance but if you like it, do it.

No one here cares if Participant A's home TV is not accurately calibrated. It's important for broadcast engineers and some creative professionals.

If Joe Consumer likes a noticeably blue image for their movies, that's fine. No one stares for hours and hours at SMTPE test patterns. If the TV performs in a way that the purchaser is satisfied, then the manufacturer did their job.


----------



## Valantar (Sep 16, 2021)

phanbuey said:


> Brightness is an issue but not the way people think... The oled gets bright -- super bright, much brighter than most gaming monitors but only at about 1/4 - 1/2 of the screen holds that brightness.
> 
> This is the biggest drawback to using it as a work monitor is the ABL / DIMMING features, as these are by far the most annoying:
> -- i.e. OLEDS can't display a full white screen at full brightness - they dim, so for flashing or like bright games that use white screen effects (when you exit a tunnel into the outside, for example) this is noticeable.
> ...


There's nothing _wrong_ with what you're saying here, but your frame of reference seems to be monitors and not TVs. Good LED LCD TVs get _much_ brighter than OLEDs both for smaller areas and full white screens. Check Rtings' comparison. Monitors generally have crap brightness - 300 nits is still "good" for most monitors. The only brightness metric the OLED is ahead in is HDR 2% image, i.e. a very tiny spot. Anything else and the LCD is much brighter. Hence its better bright room performance. From looking at that review LG has significantly improved their anti-reflective coating from the CX generation though, which is great. But as I said: if the room is often dark and light levels are controllable, go OLED; if not, go (high-ish end, FALD) LED. Both are fantastic, and while the OLED does win in most metrics, unless 120Hz gaming is all you do, the differences are not really perceptible outside of a side-by-side comparison.


----------



## phanbuey (Sep 16, 2021)

Yeah I didn't read the OP as well as I should have -- totally thought we were talking about monitors.


----------



## ShiBDiB (Sep 16, 2021)

To go against all the advice here.. considering most of what you watch isn't even available in 4K.. Why are you upgrading? It sounds like the TV you have now works fine for your usage scenario.


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 17, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Not mine. It's best features were brightness, smoothness and refresh rate. Black-level and contrast were very much less than optimal.


What on earth?  Did you set the black level wrong?



lexluthermiester said:


> Samsung PN42C450B1D.View attachment 217121
> Sorry about the focus, cramped angle..


Oh.  Samsungs.  They had some kind of bug with floating black levels on some models...  maybe yours was one.


----------



## londiste (Sep 17, 2021)

Valantar said:


> But as I said: if the room is often dark and light levels are controllable, go OLED; if not, go (high-ish end, FALD) LED. Both are fantastic, and while the OLED does win in most metrics, unless 120Hz gaming is all you do, the differences are not really perceptible outside of a side-by-side comparison.


I would put that cutoff point to somewhere brighter. Unless you have direct sunlight in the room, either one is fine.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 17, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Oh. Samsungs. They had some kind of bug with floating black levels on some models... maybe yours was one.


Maybe. Again, black levels are not as important to me. And remember, plasma screens wear out over time. Mine was 12ish years old.


----------



## Valantar (Sep 17, 2021)

londiste said:


> I would put that cutoff point to somewhere brighter. Unless you have direct sunlight in the room, either one is fine.


Most living rooms in my experience have either large windows or windows facing the brightest/sunniest direction available. That likely varies a lot both geographically and culturally, but IME they are typically the room in any house or apartment with the most natural light. We have a glassed-in balcony outside of our living room windows, but even when the sunlight is angled so that the only direct lighting is on the balcony, the living room still gets very bright - bright enough that SDR content needs most of the brightness the Q80 can deliver. That combined with light colored walls means it needs to be pretty dark outside to avoid visible reflections in dark scenes too. Of course if you have blackout blinds or some other convenient way of controlling light that makes this easier, but then I accounted for that in my recommendation.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Sep 17, 2021)

As far as calibrating by eye - I always go by what looks like the most natural flesh tones. They may not end up being accurate, but they are not green or blue when I am done.


----------



## Chomiq (Sep 23, 2021)

Just an FYI
Beware of panel shenanigans from Samsung. QN90A has two variants - US one with VA panel and EU one which uses IPS panel. They are both listed as QN90A but contrast is dramatically different between the two. It's the QN91AA in EU market that uses VA panel.


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Sep 27, 2021)

The LG 49UH6100 has been out-of-service for many weeks now! When it was new, its "4K mode" was mainly only good for piercing retinas! Even the default LED backlight level on other modes, are highly likely to pierce retinas! But at least, it let you turn down the backlight. But, when my sister and my brother-in-law were using it, the backlight was most likely cranked back up!


----------



## mama (Sep 27, 2021)

phanbuey said:


> I am on one year of the CX as a desktop monitor (read static stuff all the time) and no burn in yet.
> 
> If it doesn't burn in soon i wont be able to use my BB warranty.


Same.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 1, 2021)

@andersun9 
Saw this and thought you might want to give it a watch.


----------



## Shrek (Oct 1, 2021)

Isn't power consumption also an issue for Plasma screens? the cost of electricity adds up.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 1, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Isn't power consumption also an issue for Plasma screens? the cost of electricity adds up.


It is. Plasmas are very power hungry.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 1, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> It is. Plasmas are very power hungry.


They were awesome due to performance characteristics, they still used less than a CRT while having those great refresh rates and color gamut.


----------



## Chomiq (Oct 1, 2021)

"Hey, I'm Linus and I'm going to talk about OLED burn-in. Let me just leave that static window with white background in the middle of the screen. Gee I wonder why I have burn-in on my OLED?".


----------



## defaultluser (Oct 1, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> "Hey, I'm Linus and I'm going to talk about OLED burn-in. Let me just leave that static window with white background in the middle of the screen. Gee I wonder why I have burn-in on my OLED?".




*Yeah, if You don't spend your time 24/7  trying to kill your OLED, you'll easily get 5-10 yeas out of one!

HOWTO:

1. lower your oled brightness below 60 percent
2. Change  your channel from Faux News /  ESPN at least once a day.
3. make sure you left on Auto-power-off, adjusted to your desired timeline.

It's that easy!*

Linus probably
1. maxed OLED light,
2. made it even worse than Faux News with that pure white image,
3. and then likely turned-off the auto-power-off* (was turned on automatically once they updated my B7 firmware, so I'm going to assume new OLEDs ship with it on by-default!)*


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 1, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> "Hey, I'm Linus and I'm going to talk about OLED burn-in. Let me just leave that static window with white background in the middle of the screen. Gee I wonder why I have burn-in on my OLED?".





defaultluser said:


> Yeah, if You don't spend your time 24/7  trying to kill your OLED, you'll easily get 5-10 yeas out of one!
> 
> HOWTO:
> 
> ...


I think you both have missed the context..


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 1, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I think you both have missed the context..


As an OLED Desktop user for 2+ years now, not really.

The point is if you try even a tiny bit to mitigate it (even just a screensaver will be enough) it's a near nonissue.  You have to really push it to get burn in.

I actually have all builtin mitigations disabled.  It's amazing what a screensaver will do.


----------



## defaultluser (Oct 1, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> As an OLED Desktop user for 2+ years now, not really.
> 
> The point is if you try even a tiny bit to mitigate it (even just a screensaver will be enough) it's a near nonissue.  You have to really push it to get burn in.
> 
> I actually have all builtin mitigations disabled.  It's amazing what a screensaver will do.



Yeah, I've been using my B7 for three years now mixed HTPC ,with a black Screensaver set to 2 minutes, combined with a  dark Windows theme., and no noticeable burn-in -* the auto-power-off is an additional safety net that normal users will get  a lot more benefit out of than me (it means that, if you forgot to change the channel from ESPN all day, the TV will turn off after you don't touch the inputs for two hours )*

If you are only going to be using it for movies (*the OP,*)  the burn-in is never going to be an issue if you follow my EASY guide


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 1, 2021)

defaultluser said:


> Yeah, I've been using my B7 for three years now mixed HTPC ,with a black Screensaver set to 2 minutes, combined with a  dark Windows theme., and no noticeable burn-in -* the auto-power-off is an addditional safety net that normal users will get  a lot more benefit out of than me (it means that, if you forgot to change the channel from ESPN all day, the TV will turn off after you don't touxhch the inputs for two hours )*
> 
> If yiou are only going to be usin it for movies (*the OP,*)  the burn-in is never going to be an issue if you follow my EASY guide


Thats impressive.  *7/*8 were more susceptible to burn in supposedly, due to a smaller red subpixel than the 9+ series.  Seems even they weren't bad at all, however.  A new screen should last even longer.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Oct 1, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I think you both have missed the context..


I'm with Lex here. 

For one, Linus was talking about first generation OLED. Modern sets have built-in features to mitigate those problems - especially for any "normal" TV or computer monitor use. 



> Let me just leave that static window with white background in the middle of the screen.


This is like injecting 50 pounds of sugar into a mouse 4 times a day then declaring that sugar causes blood sugar problems. 

I think, at least for now, OLED is probably best for TVs used to watch TV/Movie/Video content. For computing use - especially is the user regularly parks the same window in the same spot.


----------



## defaultluser (Oct 1, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Thats impressive.  *7/*8 were more susceptible to burn in supposedly, due to a smaller red subpixel than the 9+ series.  Seems even they weren't bad at all, however.  A new screen should last even longer.




they are more susceptible, but it's way less of a problem than the 6 series was!

I know I'm gong to have a shorter pixel life time (and therefore  a quicker burn-in) than the C1,* but I just recently raised my OLED brightness base for the first time since I bought it* (so I figure I have 3-6 years before it gets above that OLED brightness > 60 danger-zone)

Newer panels can get over 10 years life easily, with these 3 easy steps (or if you're running an HTPC, then make sure also do the following: have dark mode enabled plus black screensaver plus auto-hide taskbar.

3 easy steps for video watchers, and +3  additional easy steps for everyone else


----------



## Valantar (Oct 1, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> "Hey, I'm Linus and I'm going to talk about OLED burn-in. Let me just leave that static window with white background in the middle of the screen. Gee I wonder why I have burn-in on my OLED?".


Well, the premise of the video is "hey, maybe OLEDs still aren't all that great _for monitor use_", so I don't quite see the problem with that? Large static white-background windows are a pretty significant portion of monitor usage for most people. If all you do is game? Go for it, as long as you're varied enough for UI elements to not burn in. Movies, TV? Same. He does mention that the GX in his living room is problem free after a much longer period of use than the CX desk "monitor" after all. And the conclusion is still that these are fantastic panels, just for those who can live with a shorter lifespan than you can expect from an LCD.


defaultluser said:


> Linus probably
> 1. maxed OLED light,
> 2. made it even worse than Faux News with that pure white image,
> 3. and then likely turned-off the auto-power-off* (was turned on automatically once they updated my B7 firmware, so I'm going to assume new OLEDs ship with it on by-default!)*


Well, it's good to know you didn't watch the video before criticizing it, I guess? 'Cause he details his setup quite explicitly. Please don't be that lazy. And while you're technically correct on the "pure white image" part (which, as I said above, is pretty much unavoidable for monitor usage unless it's a pure gaming monitor), you're still 1/3 overall. At least do your research, eh?


R-T-B said:


> As an OLED Desktop user for 2+ years now, not really.
> 
> The point is if you try even a tiny bit to mitigate it (even just a screensaver will be enough) it's a near nonissue.  You have to really push it to get burn in.
> 
> I actually have all builtin mitigations disabled.  It's amazing what a screensaver will do.


Well, Linus ran his at 80% brightness but otherwise with all mitigations on, and still got visible retention after _three months_ of 8-10h/day usage (not quite 7 days a week, I expect - he's likely a workaholic, but hopefully not that bad). So clearly YMMV. No doubt it comes down a lot to the specifics of your use case, but him (and Wendell) getting clearly visible retention that quickly does show that it _can_ happen quickly. The pixel refresher mostly removed it, but that comes with its own long-term tradeoffs. It's probably manageable, but at the very least it's a good idea to consider your actual workload and APL before going for an OLED TV as a monitor.


Bill_Bright said:


> For one, Linus was talking about first generation OLED. Modern sets have built-in features to mitigate those problems - especially for any "normal" TV or computer monitor use.


First generation? His monitor that the video covers is a 3-month old CX (or C1?) 48". Those are definitely not first-generation. 10th and 11th?

As for "normal" TV usage, the mitigations likely work well, but "normal" computer monitor usage? No amount of pixel shift or logo dimming is going to mitigate retention from text documents, excel spreadsheets, white/light background web pages, etc. And auto-dimming of static images makes for terrible UX for reading or working with mostly-static documents etc. The main takeaway is that OLEDs are best suited for high motion use cases, and not mostly static ones. So, if your monitor is >80% a gaming monitor? I'd say go for it. If not? I'd stay with a good LCD, even if you lose out on some things. Your priorities might be different than mine, but I know that my workload would cause retention very similar to what Linus showed in that video (after three months) - and to me, a monitor lasting less than five years is _entirely_ unacceptable, and less than 10 is disappointing. So that rules out OLED, at least for now, even if I would no doubt love the image quality.


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 1, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Well, Linus ran his at 80% brightness but otherwise with all mitigations on, and still got visible retention after _three months_ of 8-10h/day usage (not quite 7 days a week, I expect - he's likely a workaholic, but hopefully not that bad).


He didn't use dark mode (or a screensaver, most likely), which is the other must I'd advise.



Valantar said:


> but at the very least it's a good idea to consider your actual workload and APL before going for an OLED TV as a monitor.


Oh this absolutely is true.  APL in particular is a weird thing to get used to.


----------



## Valantar (Oct 1, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> He didn't use dark mode (or a screensaver, most likely), which is the other must I'd advise.
> 
> 
> Oh this absolutely is true.  APL in particular is a weird thing to get used to.


Dark mode is likely smart, that's true. Though it won't change the background of documents, web pages or other content, so depending on the use case it might not make that much of a difference. Considering your "typical APL" plus static UI elements is a rather alien consideration for most monitor buyers, I would imagine. But we get used to new considerations all the time, so it's hardly a deal breaker - just another challenge to overcome when giving advice or making buying decisions.


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 1, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Dark mode is likely smart, that's true. Though it won't change the background of documents, web pages or other content, so depending on the use case it might not make that much of a difference. Considering your "typical APL" plus static UI elements is a rather alien consideration for most monitor buyers, I would imagine. But we get used to new considerations all the time, so it's hardly a deal breaker - just another challenge to overcome when giving advice or making buying decisions.


Educated buyer is never something to disagree with.  Have a like.


----------



## defaultluser (Oct 1, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Dark mode is likely smart, that's true. Though it won't change the background of documents, web pages or other content, so depending on the use case it might not make that much of a difference. Considering your "typical APL" plus static UI elements is a rather alien consideration for most monitor buyers, I would imagine. But we get used to new considerations all the time, so it's hardly a deal breaker - just another challenge to overcome when giving advice or making buying decisions.




Yeah, but if all you like  to do all day is stare at Black-on-white, you do know that they make tons of VA monitors for people like you?

This is why I can never take Linus seriously - he always puts his hardware in known bad operating environments, so then he can whine to his steadfast viewers about his latest self-manufactured problem.

*Very few people I know can stare at that much white day-in and day-out (why, for your average person, OLED makes a fine HTPC.

There are also little bits like this which could have made his + panel's life easier:

Reddit Dark Mode
Facebook Dark Mode
Google Dark Mode
Twitter Dark Mode.*

And if your major web destinations  isn't covered by the above, just check UserStyles.org for dark modes for all your favorite websites.

Wikipedia, as one example:









						Wikipedia Themes, Skins & Backgrounds
					

Endless themes and skins for Wikipedia: dark modes, super heroes, sports, movies and more on Userstyles.org




					userstyles.org
				




Dark mode is already easier on your eyes if you're running an LED panel, but on OLED, you can really appreciate all the details tah get washed out on gaming monitors.

There's also been a push for professionals to get working Dark mode.   See Word here:









						Try Dark Mode in Word
					

You could use Word with a dark ribbon and toolbars, but your document color stayed bright white. Now, Dark Mode in Word offers a dark canvas as well!




					insider.office.com
				




Visual Studio has supported dark theme for a decade now (and this extension makes switching fast, for those who want the best of both worlds.)









						Toggle Light/Dark Theme - Visual Studio Marketplace
					

Extension for Visual Studio Code - Command to toggle the theme between light/dark.



					marketplace.visualstudio.com


----------



## Valantar (Oct 1, 2021)

defaultluser said:


> Yeah, but if all you like  to do all day is stare at Black-on-white, you do know that they make tons of VA monitors for people like you?
> 
> This is why I can never take Linus seriously - he always puts his hardware in known bad operating environments, so then he can whine to his steadfast viewers about his latest self-manufactured problem.
> 
> ...


You seem to be working from the premise that monitors are only used for entertainment purposes, which... uh, good for you I guess? Linus is talking about his office use case, something that's plenty clear from the video. Wendell's use case is likely quite different in its specifics, but also similar in many ways. My monitor is a work tool as well as an entertainment tool. Word, Excel, Outlook, Google Docs, Onenote, Teams, and whatever intranet page your employer runs? Those don't have any functional form of dark mode. And if you work with a lot of text, reading light-on-dark text is far harder on the eyes than dark-on-light. Which is my whole point: know your use case. You're presenting it as if these are some weird edge cases. All that does is show your lack of perspective. There is immense variety in how PCs are used, and I'd say the safer bet is to assume most people are generally at pretty high APLs with no real way of avoiding it. Everyone? Clearly not. But a majority? Likely.


----------



## P4-630 (Oct 1, 2021)

eidairaman1 said:


> Explain why my Galaxy A11 has burn in?



Dropped a cigarette on it? Otherwise no I can't explain your Galaxy A11 screen burn in..










__





						Samsung Galaxy A11 - Full phone specifications
					






					www.gsmarena.com


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 2, 2021)

defaultluser said:


> *Yeah, if You don't spend your time 24/7  trying to kill your OLED, you'll easily get 5-10 yeas out of one!
> 
> HOWTO:
> 
> ...


Webbrowsers can cause burn in, same with message apps on phones...



P4-630 said:


> Dropped a cigarette on it? Otherwise no I can't explain your Galaxy A11 screen burn in..
> 
> View attachment 219072
> 
> ...


I don't smoke


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 2, 2021)

eidairaman1 said:


> Webbrowsers can cause burn in, same with message apps on phones...


Only with enough hours of static content.

His point is your screen tech is IPS.  It shouldn't be possible to burn-in an IPS display, at least not without a laser beam or something.


----------



## londiste (Oct 2, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> His point is your screen tech is IPS.  It shouldn't be possible to burn-in an IPS display, at least not without a laser beam or something.


That is not true. LCDs can and do get burn-in. Granted, it usually takes quite a while.


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## Ferrum Master (Oct 2, 2021)

If 70% for sports, then no OLED is an option. The burn in from the channels and team stats will burn in an no countermeasures can fix that. Go to some pubs that have TV at the walls, even LCD's exhibit burn in, but in much less degree, but at the pubs you can see even them them burned in.

For sports as a leisure activity I still sport a Projector to 135inch screen, nothing can top that, the immersion and large size pulls you in. It isn't like that in movies where TV's are on par if not better. I am eyeing to upgrade to some true 4K HDR ones once my lamp will burn out at last, it doesn't. 

LG CX and C1 if you use gaming on movies, where all screen does change. Not some darn television showing the channel name at some corner. Gosh I still hate that thing since I worked as a TV repair technician nearly two decades ago. Burnt in kinescopes was an often sight, just like Waze or Pokemon GO these days in OLED phones.


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## R-T-B (Oct 2, 2021)

londiste said:


> That is not true. LCDs can and do get burn-in. Granted, it usually takes quite a while.


Not any LED backed ones I've seen.  It might be possible I guess but it takes an absurdly long time.


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## Ferrum Master (Oct 2, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Not any LED backed ones I've seen.  It might be possible I guess but it takes an absurdly long time.



Naah. Want to fire up some old phone with a TFT screen that has clock burned in? There is one in my shelf as a memorial from my past devices I used that and I use it only when wearing a suit.

Most that were hit were LG G2's and G5's, despite they suffered from screen bleeding ie yellow oxidation at the edges, but that's another story. But with age any of them exhibit this. Could it be that the LCD layer cannot close or open properly OFF/ON anymore? Polarizer defect? The tiny transistor pixel switch deteriorates. Dunno. But they do exhibit burn in.

Just don't ask how many devices have gone through my hands in my whole career it is a lot more you can imagine. They do like that. As you don't abuse alcohol I cannot suggest to go some pub too... tough case.


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## R-T-B (Oct 2, 2021)

It still probably





R-T-B said:


> takes an absurdly long time.


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## Ferrum Master (Oct 2, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> It still probably



It ain't that easy, those devices that were hit were like 1-2 year old.

Well let's dive in deeper. The panel tech, each of them is not just LCD, it consists of many layers and each of them have cons and pros. Some of the layers die, just like dead or hot pixels occur. Some call it persistence effect, but that is just one of the types. OLED also has it in much worse state and always actually after bright scene and then a dark one, but it disappers after a short time. But some say that it disappears with time for LCD's as well, but it does not.

Well here is a warning from Samsung... with the big fat font.

*Important:* Burn in damage is not covered under warranty.
Changing Picture Size If Your Watching TV For Long Periods of Time​








						Are LCD TVs Subject To Screen Burn In? | Samsung South Africa
					

FAQ for Samsung Television. Find more about 'Are LCD TVs Subject To Screen Burn In?' with Samsung Support.




					www.samsung.com


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## TheDeeGee (Oct 2, 2021)

cvaldes said:


> Current LG OLEDs have three features to reduce burn-in risk that old plasma units did not have.
> 
> The first one is Pixel Cleaning which happens automatically after a cumulative amount of usage. It basically resets the pixels when the TV is asleep. This can be manually invoked.
> 
> ...


LinusTechTips made a video recently about that Pixel Cleaning feature.

It will not work forever, and it's basically sanding down an uneven wood floor, so you're wearing down good pixels to match the bad ones and this can't be undone.


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## Ferrum Master (Oct 2, 2021)

TheDeeGee said:


> LinusTechTips made a video recently about that Pixel Cleaning feature.
> 
> It will not work forever, and it's basically sanding down an uneven wood floor, so you're wearing down good pixels to match the bad ones and this can't be undone.



Also not that simple. LED's are super non linear brightness wise. To match up the curve they use presets, and they know that usually the green one is the first one that kicks the bucket. They do shift the overall curve. It ain't burning down. The magic that makes OLED screens happen is rather complex actually.

I know that as I can calibrate out burn in for certain phone models too if the right conditions are met, so I can have a peek to the things that are sent and set into a OLED driver IC, where the calibration profiles are saved. Basically a screen from factory is an uneven mess anyways, they do calibrate it to make a even white balance, so there are cases when the pixels are already at whacky curves since start.

And they work totally fine afterwards. They stop deteriorating at the old places. I've seen devices I've calibrated like 3 years ago and were totally fine.


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## R-T-B (Oct 2, 2021)

I will say I appreciate your insight.  I learned a few things today.


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## londiste (Oct 2, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Not any LED backed ones I've seen.  It might be possible I guess but it takes an absurdly long time.


It is not backlight where burn-in happens. Whether backlight is CCFL or LED has very minor effect on that.



TheDeeGee said:


> LinusTechTips made a video recently about that Pixel Cleaning feature.
> It will not work forever, and it's basically sanding down an uneven wood floor, so you're wearing down good pixels to match the bad ones and this can't be undone.


They also had a number of technical inaccuracies. For example according to what we know about LG's W-OLED it does not have separate subpixels of different color.
I would consider the sanding wood explanation for the pixel cleaning a bit suspect as well. There is some truth to it and it is a nice simplified analogy but the technical explanation of how Pixel Refresh works is quite a bit more complex and includes other ways than "sanding down".

By the way, forums and impressions say OLED light setting is quite significant in terms of OLED burn-in and Linus was running his at 80(/100). Plus, since Pixel Refresh runs regularly when TV is turned off there is also reliance on the TV being turned off regularly and giving it some time do do its thing.


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## lexluthermiester (Oct 2, 2021)

londiste said:


> That is not true. LCDs can and do get burn-in. Granted, it usually takes quite a while.


While that was once true, the advent of LCD technology refinements have made it problem of the past. "Burn-in" on LCDs was generally limited to passive and active martix TFT types. Modern panels will not experience static image retention to any degree the user/observer with notice.



TheDeeGee said:


> LinusTechTips made a video recently about that Pixel Cleaning feature.
> 
> It will not work forever, and it's basically sanding down an uneven wood floor, so you're wearing down good pixels to match the bad ones and this can't be undone.


Yup. I posted that very video on page 3 of this thread.. 

The point of that post was to give the OP, @andersun9 something to see and think about in consideration of replacing their existing plasma TV. OLED screens might be beautiful, but they do and will degrade, just like plasma screens. Modern IPS LCD screens may not measure up to the same absolute beauty of OLED, but they get close and without all of the potential problems. They're also less expensive. With an LCD TV, you get more bang for buck.



Ferrum Master said:


> The *PHYSICS* that makes OLED screens happen is rather complex actually.


Fixed that for you. There is nothing "magic" about display technology.



londiste said:


> They also had a number of technical inaccuracies.


No, I have some experience with OLED screens and for once Linus got the technical details right.


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## londiste (Oct 2, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> "Burn-in" on LCDs was generally limited to passive and active martix TFT types.


Practically all LCDs today are active matrix TFT


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## R-T-B (Oct 2, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> They're also less expensive.


Depends.  Some of the real high end Quantom Dot LCDs actually can exceed the cost of OLED.  They have real nice peak brightness the OLED can't even dream of though.  Situational, really.


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## lexluthermiester (Oct 2, 2021)

londiste said:


> Practically all LCDs today are active matrix TFT


TN, IPS and VA panels are loosely related in functionality to the old matrix TFT panels but modern LCD panels have a large number of advances that set them apart from the panels from decades ago and the difference vary based on the technology in question. However, one thing is common among them all, they do not experience burn-in/image-retention.



R-T-B said:


> Depends. Some of the real high end Quantom Dot LCDs actually can exceed the cost of OLED.


True, and...


R-T-B said:


> They have real nice peak brightness the OLED can't even dream of though. Situational, really.


There we go.

The choice of what type of TV to buy has never been so vast. At the end of the day, personal preference is what matters most.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 2, 2021)

Id keep the plasma in another Room and get the best possible LED based LCD for yourself bro


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## P4-630 (Oct 2, 2021)

I'd keep the plasma in the coldest room during winter...


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## R-T-B (Oct 3, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> I'd keep the plasma in the coldest room during winter...


This is the way.


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## mama (Oct 3, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Well, the premise of the video is "hey, maybe OLEDs still aren't all that great _for monitor use_", so I don't quite see the problem with that? Large static white-background windows are a pretty significant portion of monitor usage for most people. If all you do is game? Go for it, as long as you're varied enough for UI elements to not burn in. Movies, TV? Same. He does mention that the GX in his living room is problem free after a much longer period of use than the CX desk "monitor" after all. And the conclusion is still that these are fantastic panels, just for those who can live with a shorter lifespan than you can expect from an LCD.
> 
> Well, it's good to know you didn't watch the video before criticizing it, I guess? 'Cause he details his setup quite explicitly. Please don't be that lazy. And while you're technically correct on the "pure white image" part (which, as I said above, is pretty much unavoidable for monitor usage unless it's a pure gaming monitor), you're still 1/3 overall. At least do your research, eh?
> 
> ...


Well I'm all in.  Had my CX since January this year.  I do a mix of stuff each day from gaming to multi-media work, TV usage and browsing.  I'm using all the mitigation techniques I know about so I'll see how I go... No burn in yet!


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