# NVME questions



## xu^ (Feb 21, 2021)

Hi all, in the market for a NVME 500gb boot drive , but a bit confused about the heat problems with these.
Have read they can and probably will overheat without a heatsink, as my motherboard is pretty basic it doesnt have a heatsink, just the slot, would it be ok as is? or are there versions of nvme with heatsinks already on?  

tbh ive no idea and am total n00b when it come to nvme drives.
Any advice/suggestions would be appreciated.


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## ThrashZone (Feb 21, 2021)

Hi,
Yes might as well they already need a heatsink.

Just stay away from adata m.2's








						Adata Switches NAND on XPG SX8200 Pro SSD Again, Affecting Performance (Updated)
					

Adata changes Flash, leading to potentially-slower performance.




					www.tomshardware.com
				




Otherwise western digital/... 
Nothing really wrong with 2.5" ssd's I prefer them they run cooler and are cheaper per gb than m.2's


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## newtekie1 (Feb 21, 2021)

xubidoo said:


> Hi all, in the market for a NVME 500gb boot drive , but a bit confused about the heat problems with these.
> Have read they can and probably will overheat without a heatsink, as my motherboard is pretty basic it doesnt have a heatsink, just the slot, would it be ok as is? or are there versions of nvme with heatsinks already on?
> 
> tbh ive no idea and am total n00b when it come to nvme drives.
> Any advice/suggestions would be appreciated.



They only get too hot when writing a lot of data to the drive all at once, which most people don't do that often. And they have protections built in to keep the temperatures safe, they will slow down their write speed to stay safe if they start to get too hot.


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## xu^ (Feb 21, 2021)

cheers, so should be ok , was considering 1 of these 2 , bearing in mind any heat issues

Samsung 970 EVO 500 GB PCIe NVMe​or
WD_BLACK SN750 500GB High-Performance NVMe (with heatsink)​
both roughly the same price, so which would you go for considering the above?


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## ThrashZone (Feb 21, 2021)

Hi,
That's funny my m.2 is doing nothing and 39c lol
850 pro 2.5" doing something is only 27c another 850 evo doing nothing atm 27c


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## xu^ (Feb 22, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> That's funny my m.2 is doing nothing and 39c lol
> 850 pro 2.5" doing something is only 27c another 850 evo doing nothing atm 27c


Doesn't your board have heatsinks for your  M.2 drives? Mine doesn't so could maybe be a problem.


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## joemama (Feb 22, 2021)

M.2 SSDs don't easily overheat, unless there is intensive writing going on, so you don't have to worry much.


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## Fry178 (Feb 22, 2021)

@trashzone
just because one is warmer than the other, doesnt mean much (outside controlled environment to measure)..

my 970 evo runs 46*C with win idle/low load, and reaches about 55*C under load (with heatsink),
while the adata nvme is at 36*C (sitting next to the boards heatsink), while a (phison/micron) ssd is doing 33*C.
the 3* difference is more likely because it sits in a separate chamber and on the bottom of the case and the lower air temp,
than anything else..

@xubidoo
dont worry about temps unless your case has bad airflow or really hot cpu/gpu
(one reason i prefer LC, dumps the heat from cpu outside the case, lowering temps on everything else).
there are a handful of chip makers (for name brand drives), and all i checked, say the drives can handle about 70*C...

see what the price is on the 970 evo plus, should be same or less.
you can always install heatsink, just get one that doesnt use rubber bands for mounting..

drives
evo plus
or
inland premium 512gb
(cheaper, but not slower drive, made by corsair and basically identical with the MP510)

heatsinks
with "adhesive" on thermal pad
with bracket


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## freeagent (Feb 22, 2021)

My 500GB SN750 is plugged into the top slot and is sitting at 27c right now, my 1TB SN750 is in the bottom slot and is at 27c as well. My case fans are at 7v. My board also comes with sinks for them.. No page file as well..

I don't think I've seen them over 30-32c if I'm honest.. but it isn't summer yet.. and about 21c down here in the basement..

Edit:

Tomorrow I think I will use the TB SN750 as my boot drive just because its a bit faster..


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## Fry178 (Feb 22, 2021)

@freeagent
no page file?
really good idea


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## ViperXTR (Feb 22, 2021)

Isn't the memory on the SSDs perform better when warm? Not scorching hot but not hitting 80-90C?


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## Mussels (Feb 22, 2021)

freeagent said:


> My 500GB SN750 is plugged into the top slot and is sitting at 27c right now, my 1TB SN750 is in the bottom slot and is at 27c as well. My case fans are at 7v. My board also comes with sinks for them.. No page file as well..
> 
> I don't think I've seen them over 30-32c if I'm honest.. but it isn't summer yet.. and about 21c down here in the basement..
> 
> ...


you cant run no page file on modern operating systems, it just ignores you and makes one as small as possible.

It's a bad idea - just set a large page file and dont try and do the oppposite of what your OS needs... some programs crash without it


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## freeagent (Feb 22, 2021)

Fry178 said:


> @freeagent
> no page file?
> really good idea


Is that bad? I've been doing it for eons..

As for warm.. I would have to run off all of my fans.. I should try that


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## erocker (Feb 22, 2021)

I don't use heatsinks on my m.2 drives, just decent case airflow.


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## Mussels (Feb 22, 2021)

on the NVME topic: some of my drives thermal throttle under sustained writes, without a heatsink
It's a difference between throttling in 5 seconds or 10 seconds, so it may or may not make any real difference in the real world... and in my case its on an intel drive with a bad reputation anyway - my samsungs do far better.


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## TheLostSwede (Feb 22, 2021)

You can actually buy cheap heatsinks for M.2 drives if you're that concerned. 
Some also ship with one attached.
I think you're being worried about something that isn't really an issue for most people.


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## ThrashZone (Feb 22, 2021)

xubidoo said:


> Doesn't your board have heatsinks for your  M.2 drives? Mine doesn't so could maybe be a problem.


Hi,
Yes I have a very good blower style heatsink which is the only reason the 970 evo plus max temperature is 61c after CDM instead of 75c+  
Amazon.com: Advancing Gene M.2 NVMe Cooler Heatsink with 20mm PWM Fan (3rd Gen): Electronics

M.2's have been dropping in price but the hype of m.2's is crazy exaggerated
They aren't all that much better than normal 2.5" sata ssd's which are still per gb cheaper so unless you do a lot of large file moving there is no real difference you'd notice beside a hot spot on your board between m.2 and sata ssd.

It's just a budget thing not anything else.


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## kapone32 (Feb 22, 2021)

Don't believe the hype. Something like the Intel 665P or Crucial P1 (I think) are great "budget" drives or HP EX900. Most drives will come with some sort of heatsink but you can get M2 heatsinks as cheap as $5 that will work just fine. 500GB is a little bit small I have plenty of those sitting around too. 1TB is where it's at especially if you want to use it as a boot drive.


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## bonehead123 (Feb 22, 2021)

Well, as far as heatsinks go, I tend to go with the old motto:

Betta to have'em & not need 'em, than need 'em & not have em", hehehe 

And as already stated, alot of drives come with them, and usually for only a few $$ more than without, so just go for it, or worst case just buy a 3rd party one for $10-15 and be happy...

Also, on the price/performance front, 1-2TB is the current sweet spot, and I would strongly stay away from anything smaller....


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## xu^ (Feb 22, 2021)

The only reason im going for 500gb rather than bigger, is that only the OS will be on it, i just think its a total waste of of a 1tb drive if im only using say 30-40gbs on a win 10 install and a few progs, all my games are on my 2tb ssd and my music,video files are on a 1tb hdd.

C: Windows 250gb SSD -  approx 75% free avail
D: Games  2tb SSD - approx 70% free avail
E: Storage 1tb HDD - approx  60% free avail

So you can see from my point of view, it would be a waste getting a larger drive.

Can see i need to do a bit more looking and reading up , from the sounds of it , i may not even notice hardly a difference from my 250gb ssd i have currently as a boot drive.


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## kapone32 (Feb 22, 2021)

xubidoo said:


> The only reason im going for 500gb rather than bigger, is that only the OS will be on it, i just think its a total waste of of a 1tb drive if im only using say 30-40gbs on a win 10 install and a few progs, all my games are on my 2tb ssd and my music,video files are on a 1tb hdd.
> 
> Can see i need to do a bit more looking and reading up , from the sounds of it , i may not even notice hardly a difference from my 250gb ssd i have currently as a boot drive.


The thing with smaller drives is they can easily be missing or low on Cache or may not have DRAM installed on the PCB. There is also the question of perceived reliability as 1TB always has a higher endurance rating.


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## outpt (Feb 22, 2021)

why not buy a wd sn550 blue 1tb these are very good drives. i replaced my wd blue with a sn750 1tb and honestly i can't tell the difference except in benchmarks and they can be had for 99.99usd.


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## xu^ (Feb 22, 2021)

outpt said:


> why not buy a wd sn550 blue 1tb these are very good drives. i replaced my wd blue with a sn750 1tb and honestly i can't tell the difference except in benchmarks and they can be had for 99.99usd.



Already have 3 WD Blue drives 2 ssd and 1 hdd , and i think they are very good, i just fancied something different lol.


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Feb 22, 2021)

NVMe dont reach high temperatures unless you write large amount of data for a very long time, even then they have built in safety measures that reduce the drive performance to cool temperatures should they get too high, so in other words, it shroud be fine


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## ThrashZone (Feb 22, 2021)

xubidoo said:


> The only reason im going for 500gb rather than bigger, is that only the OS will be on it, i just think its a total waste of of a 1tb drive if im only using say 30-40gbs on a win 10 install and a few progs, all my games are on my 2tb ssd and my music,video files are on a 1tb hdd.
> 
> C: Windows 250gb SSD -  approx 75% free avail
> D: Games  2tb SSD - approx 70% free avail
> ...


Hi,
Nope you won't see much if any difference
I use 500gb versions too for os cut them in half and leave the rest unallocated but again I've gone back to my 2.5" ssd's 
Only benchmark that cares if you use a m.2 is CDM/ as ssd/ and passmark performance 8-9 or 10 lol no other ones care at all.

I'd personally save the funds for gpu once they drop in price.


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## Fry178 (Feb 23, 2021)

@freeagent
set min to 2048, max to at least size of ram, this way at least your reducing writes on the drive a bit..

@kapone32
so you know how/for what OP is using the rig?
unless on unlimited budget, os doesnt need more than 50gb, so even a 128gb would be fine,
outside i rather have 2 small drives, either using one as backup or at least as 2nd drive for games/software,
limiting data loss in case of "a disaster"...

the "missing" cache will not make any difference, outside copying large files or benchmarking the drive, so again, its wasting money (if not used that way).
even if used a lot, i doubt a regular user will see more than 10TB written/y, meaning easily 10y of life..
at least with drives form past 3=4y and up.


@ThrashZone
no need for leaving space free.
unless you fill to them to the brink


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## djisas (Feb 23, 2021)

outpt said:


> why not buy a wd sn550 blue 1tb these are very good drives. i replaced my wd blue with a sn750 1tb and honestly i can't tell the difference except in benchmarks and they can be had for 99.99usd.



Great bang for buck on those blue puppies, fast enough, reliable enough cheaper than most although not the greatest endurance, but that shouldn't be an issue with light workloads...


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## kapone32 (Feb 23, 2021)

Fry178 said:


> @kapone32
> so you know how/for what OP is using the rig?
> unless on unlimited budget, os doesnt need more than 50gb, so even a 128gb would be fine,
> outside i rather have 2 small drives, either using one as backup or at least as 2nd drive for games/software,
> ...


I understand what you are saying from a pragmatic perspective using past experiences. I do feel though that NVME will grow in significance as time goes on. If you are at 500 the jump to 1 TB is not that big in price especially if you are looking at budget NVME.


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## ThrashZone (Feb 23, 2021)

Fry178 said:


> Spoiler: Other content
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi,
One
I like keeping partitions smaller so windows doesn't write all other the place so it's not about filling them up which I don't 500gb is silly as a os drive anyway win-10 is only about 60gb's last I checked lol 
I said I cut 500gb in half but reality C is usually only 140gb for win-10 which is still too much 

Two
I also keep partitions small enough to where a system image can fit the majority of my 2.5" ssd which are 240-256gb so I can switch back and forth.

Third
Unallocated space is needed regardless for over provisioning/ although I let the firmware do this chore not samsung magician so I just leave a crapload more than is recommended on a 500gb ssd which I believe is 32gb over provision space.

Forth 
I'd never fill an ssd or partition to the "brink"


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## Fry178 (Feb 24, 2021)

@ThrashZone 
not formatting part of it will only really help if you fill the formatted space up, to reduce writes on nand.
as far as drives from the past 3-4y, that has shown to be irrelevant, as virtually all dead/dying drives Backblaze had data on,
suffered from nand/controller death, not write (cycles)..


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## Hyderz (Feb 24, 2021)

500gb feels a bit small these days, i would opt for a 1tb since they have come down in price.


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## Zach_01 (Feb 25, 2021)

xubidoo said:


> cheers, so should be ok , was considering 1 of these 2 , bearing in mind any heat issues
> 
> Samsung 970 EVO 500 GB PCIe NVMe​or
> WD_BLACK SN750 500GB High-Performance NVMe (with heatsink)​
> both roughly the same price, so which would you go for considering the above?


"Sumsung 970 Evo *Plus *500GB PCIE NVMe" would my choise. The EVO Plus is almost identical to my 970Pro 512GB in performance but same TBW as EVOnonPlus (300).
You should consider a small heatsink with insignificant cost if your board doesn't have one. These are even better than most boards do have but they need minimum airflow to work properly. Board heatsinks dont have fins but they have more mass and soak from heat slower that the ones below.

This is for reference



With nice case airflow you should never face any thermal issue with either of them.

There's always a better and more expensive choise too but I dont think is required



This is my 970Pro 512GB (typical usage) with board heatsink right below CPU socket and a case fan (120mm 650rpm) over board VRM and CPU socket. I never saw it over 45C for NAND and 65C for controller.


As for the page file discussion, I do have one (16GB static) on a secondary old SATA 850Pro 1TB. I had various issues in the past with small (2GB) or no page file at all.
Also SSDs are partition agnostic. it doesnt matter for TBW if a drive has 1 or 10 partitions. Though I dont have any partitions on my 3 SSDs.

970Pro 512GB (OS, apps, and some games I dont mind loosing progress, Usage ~260GB)
850Pro 1TB (PageFile, general storage= pics, videos and other, game installments, Usage ~550GB)
860Evo 1TB (game installments, Usage ~500GB)

System restore is kept to minimum space for the OS drive and disabled for the other 2. My policy is to keep space usage at 60~65% max, though I haven't reach this level yet.

EDIT: I made a mistake about TBW of the EVO Plus. Its corrected now.


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## freeagent (Feb 25, 2021)

Fry178 said:


> @freeagent
> set min to 2048, max to at least size of ram, this way at least your reducing writes on the drive a bit..


This is why I disabled the page file to begin with, was to reduce writes. If it blue screams its usually because of something I did in the bios. I am just a casual user with no high end software installed. I am ok with 16GB of ram, 32GB is way overkill for me, I'm just in it for the performance bump from single to dual rank.. although I do give up a little at the very top with 4 sticks and the new bios.. but that's ok I guess..

I switched my 500 and 1TB around, the 500 was my boot drive. The 1TB is a bit faster, with double the endurance. It feels backwards to me running the big one. I got it so I don't have to download certain games every time I reinstall. But at the same time it feels wrong to just put games on it lol 

Sigh.

I guess the little one runs cooler because it is not as dense.


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## Fry178 (Feb 25, 2021)

yeah, only prob is win expects and needs one.
with fixed settings there is no writing, unless win actually uses it,
e.g. no impact unless the space is actually needed.
even if its just for diagnostic/troubleshooting..


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## freeagent (Feb 25, 2021)

Its just an old habit from when 64gb SSDs were a thing. Every time it crashes it can leave up half a gb worth of logs and gibberish.. do that a few times and you have a few gb of logs that I don't need because I know why it crashed. Either something I did in the bios, or running the GPU too fast or both


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## Mussels (Feb 25, 2021)

freeagent said:


> This is why I disabled the page file to begin with, was to reduce writes. If it blue screams its usually because of something I did in the bios. I am just a casual user with no high end software installed. I am ok with 16GB of ram, 32GB is way overkill for me, I'm just in it for the performance bump from single to dual rank.. although I do give up a little at the very top with 4 sticks and the new bios.. but that's ok I guess..
> 
> I switched my 500 and 1TB around, the 500 was my boot drive. The 1TB is a bit faster, with double the endurance. It feels backwards to me running the big one. I got it so I don't have to download certain games every time I reinstall. But at the same time it feels wrong to just put games on it lol
> 
> ...


you're increasing writes by disabling it, because the OS has to create and delete any files it needs paged over and over. With a large static page file, the previously needed files are still there, saving a write.

Remember, windows does not let you actually disable it: if its not enabled on any drives at all, it'll create one on the fly as needed.


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## Hachi_Roku256563 (Feb 25, 2021)

Mussels said:


> you're increasing writes by disabling it, because the OS has to create and delete any files it needs paged over and over. With a large static page file, the previously needed files are still there, saving a write.
> 
> Remember, windows does not let you actually disable it: if its not enabled on any drives at all, it'll create one on the fly as needed.


No this is false if swap is disabled and you run out of ram
your program crashes and you get sad


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