# Microsoft Edge 75 (Chromium-based) First Impressions



## trparky (Apr 4, 2019)

I have to admit, it's fast. Like *really* fast! I'd say that it's faster than Google Chrome itself. I'm posting this thread/topic with the new Microsoft (Chrome) Edge and I've been browsing a bit with it and despite it being a rather early beta version it's pretty solid.

One can grab a copy of it and test it *here*.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Apr 4, 2019)

Just installed it to try.


----------



## Rahnak (Apr 4, 2019)

Wow, I'm really diggin' the UI on that. Which is something Chrome ruined for me with their last Material Design refresh. If it works well and has uBlock Origin I might just make this my default browser.


----------



## theFOoL (Apr 4, 2019)

Yall should Def. try our Night-Eye and course Adblock 

Also this Browser for now.... works with Windows 7


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 4, 2019)

Rahnak said:


> Wow, I'm really diggin' the UI on that. Which is something Chrome ruined for me with their last Material Design refresh. If it works well and has uBlock Origin I might just make this my default browser.




yep if it supports ublock origin i will use it. if not i won't use it.  that simple.


----------



## trparky (Apr 4, 2019)

There are some issues with full screen YouTube video playback though.


----------



## kastriot (Apr 4, 2019)

And when will be integrated in win 10 updates with concurrent edge ditching?


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Apr 4, 2019)

Is there any dark theme for this at all?


----------



## Rahnak (Apr 4, 2019)

tigger said:


> Is there any dark theme for this at all?


If it doesn't have it already (it's only in beta, so probably not a priority) it will soon, probably before or soon after it ships. Dark mode is now a thing in Windows and current Edge has it for a long time now.


----------



## dcf-joe (Apr 4, 2019)

tigger said:


> Is there any dark theme for this at all?



https://techdows.com/2019/03/enable-dark-mode-microsoft-chromium-edge-on-windows-10.html


----------



## Bill_Bright (Apr 4, 2019)

I don't understand why/how MajorGeeks has this. What is the version of that Edge? Go to "Settings and more" (the 3 dots in the upper right) > Settings then scroll down and look under "About this app". 

It should say something like: 
Microsoft edge 44.18362.1.1​Microsoft EdgeHTML 18.18362​


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Apr 4, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> I don't understand why/how MajorGeeks has this. What is the version of that Edge? Go to "Settings and more" (the 3 dots in the upper right) > Settings then scroll down and look under "About this app".
> 
> It should say something like:
> Microsoft edge 44.18362.1.1​Microsoft EdgeHTML 18.18362​




My Version is this-


----------



## Bill_Bright (Apr 4, 2019)

Okay, now I understand. Thanks tigger. 

MG scarfed it from the Microsoft Edge beta site. I would recommend getting it from there to ensure you get the latest version and information about it from the horse's mouth. No need for a middleman.


----------



## Caring1 (Apr 7, 2019)

kastriot said:


> And when will be integrated in win 10 updates with concurrent edge ditching?


After all these beta testers sort it out for us


----------



## Ravenas (Apr 7, 2019)

Not really excited for a another Chromium browser. I have tried this build, and I just find myself asking why not just use Chrome?


----------



## MrGenius (Apr 7, 2019)

Ummmm....because Chrome sucks?

Sent from my Android smartphone using the default Chrome browser. 

Seriously though. I can't stand Chrome on any of my PCs. It's about as difficult and/or non-intuitive to use as it could possibly be(like they tried to make it that way on purpose). All mobile browsers suck though. So why bother with anything other than whatever's installed by default? I did try Edge on this phone for a minute. Wasn't any better, or any worse. Same amount of suckitude. There's only so much you can do. And it's never enough on a mobile device.


----------



## Ravenas (Apr 7, 2019)

Not much of a difference between the two. Basically MS giving up on trying to carve out browser market share and reallocating resources.

Would rather just use Firefox then switch to Chrome, ugh, Edge.


----------



## Mayclore (Apr 7, 2019)

MrGenius said:


> Ummmm....because Chrome sucks?
> 
> Sent from my Android smartphone using the default Chrome browser.
> 
> Seriously though. I can't stand Chrome on any of my PCs. It's about as difficult and/or non-intuitive to use as it could possibly be(like they tried to make it that way on purpose). All mobile browsers suck though. So why bother with anything other than whatever's installed by default? I did try Edge on this phone for a minute. Wasn't any better, or any worse. Same amount of suckitude. There's only so much you can do. And it's never enough on a mobile device.



I just moved to Vivaldi, which, yes, is Chrome.

But it's _pretty Chrome._


----------



## GoldenX (Apr 7, 2019)

Chrome is botnet Chrome.
Vivaldi is pretty Chrome.
Opera is Chrome+.
Edge is fast Chrome.
Brave is privacy Chrome.
Chromium is base Chrome.

Firefox is Firefox.

The least we need is a monopoly of web rendering engines.


----------



## windwhirl (Apr 7, 2019)

trparky said:


> There are some issues with full screen YouTube video playback though.



Funny, since Youtube issues were one of the reasons why Microsoft decided to ditch Edge development and make their own Chromium variant.



kastriot said:


> And when will be integrated in win 10 updates with concurrent edge ditching?





Caring1 said:


> After all these beta testers sort it out for us



It's unlikely that it will happen in time for the late 2019 update, and at least for current Skip Ahead builds (for the early 2020 update), Edge remains untouched.


----------



## micropage7 (Apr 7, 2019)

trparky said:


> There are some issues with full screen YouTube video playback though.


i guess that's ok
but i'm waiting for further


----------



## AsRock (Apr 7, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> Chrome is botnet Chrome.
> Vivaldi is pretty Chrome.
> Opera is Chrome+.
> Edge is fast Chrome.
> ...




Ooh come on so many people trust Google as the next lemming in line.

Yeah wont be trying it, if they made some thing them self's maybe but, no thanks.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Apr 7, 2019)

And Pale Moon (my default) is a forked Firefox. Just because a browser has roots in another, that does not mean they are essentially the same. The fact is, in most cases, it is taking something good and making it better. That is what MS is doing with Edge.


AsRock said:


> Yeah wont be trying it, if they made some thing them self's maybe but, no thanks.


Claiming you won't even try it is letting your prejudices and biases cloud your judgement, and rule your life. Sorry, but it is like a kid refusing to even try "_toads in a hole_" because it "sounds" yucky. Oh well, more for me! 

Chromium is an open-source browser project. It is not Chrome in a similar way Pale Moon is not Firefox, and how LibreOffice is not OpenOffice. 

It should also be noted that many Microsoft products were originally conceived and developed by another company first and then Microsoft scarfed them up and developed it into what it eventually became - and not to stifle competition, but because they recognized the potential of the product. I see nothing wrong with that.

Surely, the MS execs blew it - again  - by pushing out what clearly was a half-baked, unfinished, not-ready-for-prime-time Edge with W10. That was not the choice of the developers! But the execs wanted something to replace IE. IMO, they should have left out Edge until it was ready. But I don't run Microsoft. 

IE was actually my preferred browser but it seems clear to me Microsoft scaled back maintenance as it became less and less stable and reliable after W10/Edge came out - I assume in MS's misguided attempt to push users towards Edge. But since Edge clearly was not ready, I switched to Pale Moon as my primary and, IMO, it is the best browser out there - but it too is not perfect. I have tried them all and have yet to find the perfect browser.

I am NOT saying Edge will become my default browser. But I sure will give it an unbiased try.


----------



## Ravenas (Apr 7, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> Chrome is botnet Chrome.
> Vivaldi is pretty Chrome.
> Opera is Chrome+.
> Edge is fast Chrome.
> ...



A monopoly that obtains profits from their user base via data collection for advertising.


----------



## trparky (Apr 7, 2019)

Ravenas said:


> A monopoly that obtains profits from their user base via data collection for advertising.


That's Google.


----------



## trparky (Apr 7, 2019)

tigger said:


> Well if you have a Android phone i am afraid you are in their pocket


I have an iPhone.


----------



## NdMk2o1o (Apr 7, 2019)

trparky said:


> I have an iPhone.


Then you're in apples pocket all the same lol

I use chrome on my phone cause ff freezes to often even after it's been updated but use ff on my pc


----------



## Athlonite (Apr 7, 2019)

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's a Chromium based browser


----------



## rtwjunkie (Apr 7, 2019)

I use FF on PC’s, and its my favorite browser ever.  I use Edge on my iphone tho, kind of a personal F U to Apple, lol.  It works good on the phone.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Apr 7, 2019)

Ravenas said:


> A monopoly


Not hardly - though they are trying to get that way.


NdMk2o1o said:


> Then you're in apples pocket all the same lol


And that's why Google is not a monopoly.


Athlonite said:


> If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's a Chromium based browser


So? There are over a 100 different kinds of ducks.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 7, 2019)

My 2 cents, nothing has changed. It's still a Microsoft made browser. Unless they make all parts of it's source open for inspection, it can't be trusted. Microsoft has earned this distrust.


----------



## GoldenX (Apr 7, 2019)

Google has the final say on the Chromium project, like recently with censuring adblockers.
Browsers shouldn't lazily use Chromium directly, they should fork it and remove Google's data collection, like ungoogled-chromium does.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Apr 7, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> My 2 cents, nothing has changed. It's still a Microsoft made browser. Unless they make all parts of it's source open for inspection, it can't be trusted. Microsoft has earned this distrust.


LOL Like any browser can be trusted? Come on! We need to be realistic here. Microsoft is fully aware they are going to be bashed for any and everything - even if clearly not their fault. When it comes to trust, I would trust Microsoft any day over Google. That's not to say I have blind trust in Microsoft, I don't. But I also know our ISPs are a much greater threat than MS ever will be since our ISPs know everything we do on the Internet, plus our physical location, real name, billing information, phone number, and more. 

So it all needs to be put into perspective and not just become another opportunistic bash of Microsoft.


----------



## GoldenX (Apr 7, 2019)

tigger said:


> Unless you are using linux right now, none of us can non hypocritically bash m$


I am.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Apr 7, 2019)

tigger said:


> Unless you are using linux right now, none of us can non hypocritically bash m$


It's not about that. This thread is about the first impressions using Edge. It is not about trusting Microsoft or taking this opportunity to bash Microsoft or Chromium/Google.

If you are not using, or have not used the official release of the new Chromium based Edge, you shouldn't be criticizing it at all!


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 7, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> So it all needs to be put into perspective and not just become another opportunistic bash of Microsoft.


While those are good points, I trust Mozilla more than MS all day long. That was kinda my point.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Apr 7, 2019)

I'm out of this thread


----------



## bonehead123 (Apr 7, 2019)

Typing this on edge right now, and yea it is fast, but until it comes out of the box with complete contextual menus and translation services, I won't be using it on any sort of regular basis......


----------



## MrGenius (Apr 7, 2019)

Just trying it out right now. I don't know what the point is...yet. It's pretty much Chrome with an Edge name tag. Almost identical to Chrome so far as I can tell(haven't found a single difference yet...aside from the name). Doesn't seem any faster than the old Edge to me at all. And it's got all the aspects I can't stand about Chrome(stupid slow ass mouse wheel scrolling, things I use frequently buried where I can't find them easily, etc.). Needless to say...I'm not liking it very much.


----------



## Athlonite (Apr 8, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> So? There are over a 100 different kinds of ducks.



Still a duck though


----------



## Rahnak (Apr 8, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Chromium is an open-source browser project. It is not Chrome in a similar way Pale Moon is not Firefox, and how LibreOffice is not OpenOffice.
> 
> It should also be noted that many Microsoft products were originally conceived and developed by another company first and then Microsoft scarfed them up and developed it into what it eventually became - and not to stifle competition, but because they recognized the potential of the product. I see nothing wrong with that.


Yup, exactly this. Here's hoping Microsoft can deliver a great product like they did with VS Code, which is also based on another open source project.


----------



## Caring1 (Apr 8, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> So? There are over a 100 different kinds of ducks.


I just want a fast duck that doesn't spy on me


----------



## AsRock (Apr 8, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> And Pale Moon (my default) is a forked Firefox. Just because a browser has roots in another, that does not mean they are essentially the same. The fact is, in most cases, it is taking something good and making it better. That is what MS is doing with Edge.
> 
> Claiming you won't even try it is letting your prejudices and biases cloud your judgement, and rule your life. Sorry, but it is like a kid refusing to even try "_toads in a hole_" because it "sounds" yucky. Oh well, more for me!
> 
> ...



Sorry, to me trust is earned and Advertising company's ( Google ) is not to be trusted and now you have MS with all the privacy BS going on with Windows 10 and you think their even remotely trust worthy.  Yeah i will skip.

WOW,

Each to their own, but please don't tell me i should trust any thing Google as they have given me 0 reason to do so.


----------



## Aquinus (Apr 8, 2019)

There is a fresh bit of irony with people using Windows 10 complaining about privacy in Chrome. The real problem is that most data collection from the browser isn't nearly as detailed as the information collected by websites. I suspect you're giving up more information just by using the internet, regardless of the browser being used, such as Firefox, Chrome, Safari, or Edge.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Apr 8, 2019)

AsRock said:


> Each to their own, but please don't tell me i should trust any thing Google as they have given me 0 reason to do so.


I never said that. In fact, I trust Google much less than I do Microsoft and that is many magnitudes less than I trust my ISP or cell carriers for they already know my real name, home address, billing information and more. Google wants that information and Microsoft is trying to keep bad guys from getting it!

Contrary to what many seem or just want to believe, gathering private information for revenue is NOT high on Microsoft's list of priorities. Neither is posting ads while those activities are at the very top for Google. Microsoft makes their money selling software like Office and services like Office 360, Xbox and Xbox services, cloud based services (this is a biggie), and enterprise and business solutions and services. Seriously, they don't care about your personal data. See for yourself. How does Microsoft make money. Protecting your privacy is better for their bottom line than exploiting your private information (and the bad press that would come with that) ever could be.

I found the Bleeping Computer article, Microsoft Replacing Edge With New Chromium-base Browser, very interesting for one specific point (my *bold underline* added), 





> While it will be powered by the rendering engine which is currently used in other Chromium browsers and presumably support existing Chrome extensions, *it will not include any Google services*.





lexluthermiester said:


> I trust Mozilla more than MS all day long.


  While Mozilla, as a company, may be more trustworthy, the FF browser has a long history of having the most vulnerabilities. That's why I use Pale Moon instead of FF. If you like FF, but are concerned about security, switch to PM.

Let's face it. The only reason FF became so popular was due to all the bad publicity (most of which was false and obvious MS bashing) about IE and Microsoft.


----------



## GoldenX (Apr 8, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> I never said that. In fact, I trust Google much less than I do Microsoft and that is many magnitudes less than I trust my ISP or cell carriers for they already know my real name, home address, billing information and more. Google wants that information and Microsoft is trying to keep bad guys from getting it!
> 
> Contrary to what many seem or just want to believe, gathering private information for revenue is NOT high on Microsoft's list of priorities. Neither is posting ads while those activities are at the very top for Google. Microsoft makes their money selling software like Office and services like Office 360, Xbox and Xbox services, cloud based services (this is a biggie), and enterprise and business solutions and services. Seriously, they don't care about your personal data. See for yourself. How does Microsoft make money. Protecting your privacy is better for their bottom line than exploiting your private information (and the bad press that would come with that) ever could be.
> 
> ...


There never was false bad publicity about internet explorer, it was always bad. Bad standards integration, lock ups, active X vulnerabilities... Internet explorer was just bad.
Edge was fine, I would prefer for it to keep it's engine, but oh well, they are lazy at Microsoft.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Apr 8, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> There never was false bad publicity about internet explorer, it was always bad.


ROTFL 

Yeah right! Then answer this. Did you "stop" getting infected just by switching to another browser? Your answer is likely one of two. (1) I didn't get infected before or (2) I also installed a firewall, swapped or added a A/V, stopped clicking on every link, cleaned out the clutter, installed a router and more - same things needed regardless the browser. 

IE was a great browser for many many years. But in recent years, it could not keep up with the times and newer threats. Microsoft's mistake was trying to keep patching it. They should have retired it when W8 came out.


GoldenX said:


> they are lazy at Microsoft.


Yeah right. 

For anyone not pre-set in their anti-Edge, MS bashing ways, Microsoft has made available the official pre-release version through here. It is recommended any unofficial versions be uninstalled first.


----------



## trparky (Apr 8, 2019)

https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/

And now it's officially been posted for people to download and test. As for the YouTube full screen video playback issue I mentioned before, turning off hardware acceleration "fixes" this issue. I've already reported the issue to Microsoft.


----------



## Sasqui (Apr 8, 2019)

trparky said:


> https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/
> 
> And now it's officially been posted for people to download and test. As for the YouTube full screen video playback issue I mentioned before, turning off hardware acceleration "fixes" this issue. I've already reported the issue to Microsoft.



Googled Microsoft Edge 75.0.111.0 and was wondering if there was a release straight from MS, didn't find anything.  Conspiracy? lol


----------



## Rahnak (Apr 8, 2019)

@Bill_Bright To be fair, the rendering engine in IE wasn't good. Always behind the curve on web standards. You probably won't find a single web developer that has fond memories of it.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 8, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> While Mozilla, as a company, may be more trustworthy


They believe and behave in transparency, so to me, that's a big point in their favor.


Bill_Bright said:


> the FF browser has a long history of having the most vulnerabilities


While that is true, all browsers have a history of vulnerabilities. At least with Mozilla they're up front and open about it.


Bill_Bright said:


> That's why I use Pale Moon


Agreed. Palemoon is a great browser! I do use it for some tasks.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Apr 8, 2019)

Sasqui said:


> Conspiracy? lol


 And who would they be conspiring with?

If anyone does plan on installing that preview build of Edge, keep in mind it is just that, a "preview build". If you go through the link I provided above first, please note the following, 





> In these first builds we are very much focused on the fundamentals and have not yet included a wide range of feature and language support that will come later. You’ll start to see differences from the current Microsoft Edge including subtle design finishes, support for a broader selection of extensions and the ability to manage your sign-in profile. We look forward to people starting to kick the tires and will be refining the feature set over time based on the feedback we receive.



Like the Windows Insider program, Microsoft wants and depends on feedback from early users. Constructive criticism is good.


Rahnak said:


> @Bill_Bright To be fair, the rendering engine in IE wasn't good. Always behind the curve on web standards.


See, this is what I was talking about. "Always behind the curve"? Not hardly. In recent years, yes. 

And for sure, some of the problem was Microsoft expecting sites to adhere to Microsoft standards. And that worked for many years. If IE hadn't worked so well for so many years, it would not have pushed out my favorite, Netscape - which I gave up only after being threatened with job termination. But it did not take me long to set aside my biases and understand that IE was a darn good browser too.


lexluthermiester said:


> At least with Mozilla they're up front and open about it.


And I will give them credit for coming out with patches pretty quick too. The point is, however, IE was not bad, it was not unsafe. If you used FF, you could still get infected, you still needed to do all the things necessary for "practicing safe computing" regardless the browser of your choice. People hated IE because people hated Microsoft - at least the Big Brother side of Microsoft. Not because IE was bad though that is what many wanted everyone to believe.  

FTR, I hated the Big Brother side of MS too. As I have said many times, many of the plans by the marketing weenies and policies of the executives were just plain horrible and if they just kept their grubby paws out of the developers way, things would be great because in spite of what many think and want us to believe, the developers at MS are top notch.


----------



## Sasqui (Apr 8, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> And who would they be conspiring with?



Google... I assume you have no sense of humor.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 8, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> you still needed to do all the things necessary for "practicing safe computing" regardless the browser of your choice.


This we agree complete on. People still need to take the time to learn a good, secure computing ethic.


----------



## John Naylor (Apr 8, 2019)

Our policy, since most folks work from home a significant % of the time, is to allow employees to use whatever Office Suite, browser, etc they prefer whether here or at home.  We provide and support the PCs at both.   Only hard exception is AutoCAD as sharing files is tedious and worrisome.  Only restrictions we have ever had were client initiated as when we were doing work for a certain federal agencies, we were not permitted to use MS Office; this was back in the day of the "concept" viruses and I guess someone circulated a memo I guess stating that this could lead to the fall of civilization as we know it.  But we don't tell clients what to do, I have learned that if ya don't do what your clients and wife want, then you don't get what you want.    And I know what you're thinking ... But I am referring to repeat business (client) and peace and quiet (Wife),

Our problem was, with identical machines with identical OS installs and identical software, one machine would work just fine with Chrome and the other was totally boinky.   Spent hours and hours trying to figure out WTH and finally just gave up.  Removing Chrome solved the problem.   I still don't know what problem is other than i don't have to deal with it anymore.  As for Chrome versus Edge on data mining ... two sides of the same coin.

On the personal side, I find FF the most functional and having the most choices .... privacy options improve with each release.   As it's open source it's to be exected that users feel safer using it, from a privacy perspective, than other closed alternatives since anyone can examine it.  As for the "infection stuff" in over 230 machine-years (No, of machines in use x Years of each use), we have never "had" an infection.   In  that time, have had about a dozen false positives, most of those associated while converting spreadsheet based tools to In Game Applets for Saga of Ryzom Game.  I handle the math side, buddy does the WebIG programming and it was some Delphi DB thing that some vendors AV tends to trip over.  In each case it was submitted to vendor and determined to be a FP.   With a) a good hardware firewall, b) a good subscription based AV / Malware Suite and c)  sound user practices, you should have little to fear from infections... that being said, I think given the choices availabe, it still makes perfect sense to avoid anything with a history of vulnerbilities


----------



## GoldenX (Apr 8, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> ROTFL
> 
> Yeah right! Then answer this. Did you "stop" getting infected just by switching to another browser? Your answer is likely one of two. (1) I didn't get infected before or (2) I also installed a firewall, swapped or added a A/V, stopped clicking on every link, cleaned out the clutter, installed a router and more - same things needed regardless the browser.
> 
> ...


Only IE allowed downloads to autoexec on their own. Only IE can freeze while doing nothing. You must be the first person I've ever seen defending this monstrosity.
IE didn't work well, it had no competition. That _slightly_ different.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 8, 2019)

John Naylor said:


> hat being said, I think given the choices availabe, it still makes perfect sense to avoid anything with a history of vulnerbilities


But that would mean avoiding the internet entirely as *every* OS and browser in existence have been subject to vulnerabilities of one kind or another, establishing a history.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Apr 8, 2019)

> Google... I assume you have no sense of humor.


When it comes to technical discussions in technical forums, that is pretty much true. And I won't apologize for that either. That said, you did put the lol in there so I did, in this case, assume you were joking. It just really made no sense because Google wants Edge to do well too, since it is based on Chromium. So it just wasn't a good joke either.


John Naylor said:


> when we were doing work for a certain federal agencies, we were not permitted to use MS Office


That is odd as I worked for the federal government (DoD and State Department)  for decades and our users were ONLY allowed to use MS Office on Windows systems. What we did see banned, however, was upgrading to Vista, IE7 and for awhile, Office 2007. Those systems had to stay with XP, IE6 and Office 2003.


John Naylor said:


> it still makes perfect sense to avoid anything with a history of vulnerbilities


Then that surely leaves out FF too. 

What program would you suggest that has never had vulnerabilities? MacOS? Linux? UNIX? Avanti? Vivaldi? 

The fact is, the longer any software product has been around, the longer its history of vulnerabilities will be.



GoldenX said:


> it had no competition.


Sure it did. Netscape ruled for many years.


GoldenX said:


> Only IE can freeze while doing nothing.


Oh, wow! Now its clear you are just making stuff up.

But this is just silly now and proves my point that some are just so biased against MS they will take any and every opportunity to bash them.


----------



## GoldenX (Apr 9, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> ...
> Oh, wow! Now its clear you are just making stuff up.
> 
> But this is just silly now and proves my point that some are just so biased against MS they will take any and every opportunity to bash them.


Man, IE is dead, you won't receive payments for defending it now.
Speaking from experience. IE11 on any processor that isn't an FX, Core iX or better, is a slowfest. Try it yourself, grab a Pentium Silver, Atom, AMD E series, Athlon X2 and tell me how IE11, Firefox and Chrome works. Just opening a second tab is slow.
Edge was a godsend arriving too late.


----------



## Aquinus (Apr 9, 2019)

You know, I don't really care what browser you run, so long as I can run JavaScript on it, if I were in the business of collecting information and even that isn't the end of it. Between everything that comes over via HTTP and the information you get access to via any browser in JavaScript, I would be more concerned about the sites you visit than the browser you use, if I'm going to be completely honest. You can disable JavaScript, but the experience is bound to be terrible and data can still be collected by anything that goes over HTTP(S).

The bottom line is that you shouldn't go to pages where you're not sure if you should trust it or not and trust is the keyword. People might trust Google and might not care that metrics are being gathered about them. I'm not going to say that's right or wrong, but not everyone distrusts entities that collect data. The reality is that just about everything on the internet collects data. We have web applications these days, not some Geocities website that was made using Netscape.


----------



## Ravenas (Apr 9, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> Man, IE is dead, you won't receive payments for defending it now.
> Speaking from experience. IE11 on any processor that isn't an FX, Core iX or better, is a slowfest. Try it yourself, grab a Pentium Silver, Atom, AMD E series, Athlon X2 and tell me how IE11, Firefox and Chrome works. Just opening a second tab is slow.
> Edge was a godsend arriving too late.



IE was only successful when developers actually used MS proprietary formats, forcing the user base to follow suit. It's a shame a large majority of the user base transferred to a data mining browser.


----------



## GoldenX (Apr 9, 2019)

Ravenas said:


> IE was only successful when developers actually used MS proprietary formats, forcing the user base to follow suit. It's a shame a large majority of the user base transferred to a data mining browser.


And now companies prefer to use that engine instead of their own.
Imagine if all games were made in unity...


----------



## Bill_Bright (Apr 9, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> Man, IE is dead, you won't receive payments for defending it now.
> Speaking from experience. IE11 on any processor that isn't an FX, Core iX or better, is a slowfest. Try it yourself, grab a Pentium Silver, Atom, AMD E series, Athlon X2 and tell me how IE11, Firefox and Chrome works. Just opening a second tab is slow.
> Edge was a godsend arriving too late.


IE is dead? Really? You think?  Gee whiz!

Maybe that is why the very first time I mentioned IE in this thread in post #23, I slammed IE and Microsoft for scaling back maintenance on IE so it became unstable and unreliable! And yes, it became slow too. And at the same time, I bashed MS for pushing out the "_half-baked, unfinished, not-ready-for-prime-time Edge_" and that is why I switched to PM. So it is hardly me defending IE (or MS) to seek payments.

Yes, Edge arrived late, but not too late - it actually came too early because it clearly was not a finished product. And now, nearly 4 years after the release of W10 and Edge, it is clear the original Edge will never succeed. This entirely new Chromium based version is here in hopes to rectify all that. I think Microsoft should have thrown in the towel earlier, but I say better late than never. And I applaud them for [finally!] swallowing their pride and admitting their defeat!

I also say if you want to bash MS, Windows or IE, go for it and I will defend your right to do so with vigor. Just do it with facts, not falsehoods as you did above when you claimed that IE was the "only" browser that froze while idle, or I will defend the falsely accused with the same vigor.

There's enough factual fodder out there for MS haters to use without making stuff up!


Ravenas said:


> It's a shame a large majority of the user base transferred to a data mining browser.


I agree! And the irony is many of those same people are the ones bashing MS over privacy when Google's entire business model is based on tracking the activities of their users.


GoldenX said:


> And now companies prefer to use that engine instead of their own.


Why not? Chromium is an excellent browser! As long as MS parses out the Google services (as Bleeping Computer reported they were), there is nothing wrong with building upon what is good to make it better. Man has been doing this since the beginning of time.


----------



## Mayclore (Apr 9, 2019)

I tried it out as my default browser for most of the day yesterday, and I guess my initial impression is "I would actually use this". In fact, I still am. It's snappier than Vivaldi, if a little more plain in appearance (for now).


----------



## GoldenX (Apr 9, 2019)

@Bill_Bright try it, grab an old computer, or one with a low end cpu, test IE against Firefox and Chrome. Only IE lags.
It's no wonder all my clients ask for Chrome on their 1GB Atom N455 notebooks.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Apr 9, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> @Bill_Bright try it, grab an old computer, or one with a low end cpu, test IE against Firefox and Chrome. Only IE lags.


Wow! Did I ever say it was fast? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Is this thread about IE? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## GoldenX (Apr 9, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Wow! Did I ever say it was fast? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Is this thread about IE? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Nice tactical retreat.

If someone uses Edge for bookmark sync, the Chromium version should allow more compatible platforms. That was an unfulfilled promise of Edge, the only thing we got was an Android version that used Webview.
Can someone try if the plugin framework of normal Edge works on the Chromium one? Ublock from the store for example.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 9, 2019)

Let's get back on topic guys.


----------



## trparky (Jul 16, 2019)

It's coming along very nicely, they've fixed a lot of issues with the last update including a bug that forced me to stop using it since it made watching YouTube videos in full-screen mode very annoying. Notifications are finally working properly too, that was another thing that was broken but now fixed. I finally have TPU notifications in the Windows 10 Action Center from Edge.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 16, 2019)

In 20 years Google is going to run this world, nation states will cease to exist.  Mark my words. Poor FireFox.


----------



## trparky (Jul 16, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> Poor FireFox.


Some would say that Firefox/Mozilla is killing themselves. They don't need to have anyone do it, they're doing it to themselves.


----------



## theFOoL (Jul 16, 2019)

I use Firefox just fine and also Opera instead of Chrome


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 16, 2019)

trparky said:


> Some would say that Firefox/Mozilla is killing themselves. They don't need to have anyone do it, they're doing it to themselves.


Not sure I understand your logic here. Not trying to be aggressive at all, how do you arrive at that conclusion?


----------



## trparky (Jul 16, 2019)

The changing of the extension platform from XUL to WebExtensions, the idea of paying some amount of money per month to have an ad-free web experience, etc. Now I understand the reasoning behind changing to WebExtensions but some believe that was a bad move since they killed crap tons of extensions in one shot.


----------



## theFOoL (Jul 16, 2019)

As I mentioned before, until Firefox removes extensions when this payment method comes it's All Brave Browser from there. Just hopefully Mozilla won't do what I'm thinking of. That would be wrong. Firefox is open-source so yes they shouldn't do This


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 16, 2019)

trparky said:


> The changing of the extension platform from XUL to WebExtensions, the idea of paying some amount of money per month to have an ad-free web experience, etc. Now I understand the reasoning behind changing to WebExtensions but some believe that was a bad move since they killed crap tons of extensions in one shot.



If there is no competition though, then you can say goodbye to addons like ublock origin. My argument wasn't really for Firefox, it was more for if Google becomes too large aka a monopoly and no other web browser exists that isn't based on their coding... they basically will be able to control the world moving forward, they can play Mr. nice Guy for the time being, but when they become a monopoly... things will change... but that is fine, I will stop using the web when that day does come.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 16, 2019)

trparky said:


> The changing of the extension platform from XUL to WebExtensions


Ah, I see. You're right, that was and is a pain. However...


trparky said:


> Now I understand the reasoning behind changing to WebExtensions but some believe that was a bad move since they killed crap tons of extensions in one shot.


Most of the really good plugins have either been replaced with equivalent plugins or have been updated/rebuilt to accommodate the changes.


trparky said:


> the idea of paying some amount of money per month to have an ad-free web experience, etc.


It's working for the "Brave" browser. I think they're just playing around with it.



lynx29 said:


> but when they become a monopoly... things will change... but that is fine, I will stop using the web when that day does come.


Never gonna happen. Chrome is based on Chromium which is open source. There are plenty of compatible forks that can be used such as Opera, Iron, Brave... Plus, they can't close the source code once opened. Google can't do it and neither can Mozilla.


----------



## trparky (Jul 16, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Most of the really good plugins have either been replaced with equivalent plugins or have been updated/rebuilt to accommodate the changes.


True, this I understand.


lexluthermiester said:


> Chrome is based on Chromium which is open source. There are plenty of compatible forks that can be used such as Opera, Iron, Brave... Plus


And this is the point that I can't seem to get most people to understand. So what if Google becomes a monopoly with Chromium, anyone can fork it and do what they please. Proof of that is the very Microsoft Edge that is using Chromium code. I'd have to say that if there's anybody who can make Chromium, and by extension Google Chrome better, it would be Microsoft. Microsoft has already admitted that they've submitted multiple improvements and code additions to the Chromium project to make it better. That's the power of open source playing right out in front of our eyes with Microsoft Edge Dev.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 16, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ah, I see. You're right, that was and is a pain. However...
> 
> Most of the really good plugins have either been replaced with equivalent plugins or have been updated/rebuilt to accommodate the changes.
> 
> ...




What about when security updates require a major overhaul to the source code, because Google says so? and all open source Chrome branches are vulnerable? I don't know just playing devils advocate, where there is a will there is a way imo.  i am talking like 20 years out btw, not near future.


----------



## trparky (Jul 16, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> What about when security updates require a major overhaul to the source code, because Google says so? and all open source Chrome branches are vulnerable?


And you have the open source community there to, if need be, stand in the way and say "That's a crock of bullshit and you know it Google!". The open source community would never stand for that, those in that community would put an end to it pretty quickly.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 16, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Like any browser can be trusted?



Yeah, some can. Most of the dirt simple OSS ones have been well aduited.  They are boring though.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 16, 2019)

its possible my fears are not logical, I don't know much about all that stuff to be honest. so I will concede, what you say does make sense


----------



## trparky (Jul 16, 2019)

The whole point is that it's open source, people can read the source code. Google released the Chrome code as the Chromium Project and a lot of people are involved in making Chromium better including individuals and even large companies like Microsoft. If Google tries something nefarious all that needs to be done is to fork the project which essentially creates two code bases; Google can go on their merry way doing whatever nefarious things that they want but the fork can keep on going with business as usual since the two projects are now completely separate with absolutely nothing in common.


----------



## windwhirl (Jul 16, 2019)

Maybe, but the thing is a lot of people are using Chrome, not Chromium. 

By user base, Google wins, hands down.


----------



## trparky (Jul 16, 2019)

windwhirl said:


> By user base, Google wins, hands down.


I get it, but a lot of that can be blamed on Microsoft and Internet Explorer being such a steaming pile of hot garbage. If they didn't let Internet Explorer go so badly maybe the browser wars would still be going but no, Microsoft essentially threw in the towel and let Google win.


----------



## GoldenX (Jul 16, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Never gonna happen. Chrome is based on Chromium which is open source. There are plenty of compatible forks that can be used such as Opera, Iron, Brave... Plus, they can't close the source code once opened. Google can't do it and neither can Mozilla.


The times Chromium was audited, it was found to have hardcoded Google's "toys" inside, like speech recognition that only sends the info to Google servers.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 16, 2019)

windwhirl said:


> Maybe, but the thing is a lot of people are using Chrome, not Chromium.
> 
> By user base, Google wins, hands down.


Yes, that can change. IE used to be the number one used browser and for longer than a decade.


trparky said:


> I get it, but a lot of that can be blamed on Microsoft and Internet Explorer being such a steaming pile of hot garbage. If they didn't let Internet Explorer go so badly maybe the browser wars would still be going but no, Microsoft essentially threw in the towel and let Google win.


And now things are better.



GoldenX said:


> The times Chromium was audited, it was found to have hardcoded Google's "toys" inside, like speech recognition that only sends the info to Google servers.


That was the Android version and such functionality was linked through Google Services. IIRC, the desktop version of Chromium did not have such, because how would it work?


----------



## Bill_Bright (Jul 17, 2019)

trparky said:


> I get it, but a lot of that can be blamed on Microsoft and Internet Explorer being such a steaming pile of hot garbage.


Except much of IE's problem was caused by the intense bashings from FF fanboys, XP's security woes, and MS haters on forums, blogs and in the IT media.

I never fell for all the hype the FF fanboys were spewing who claimed IE was insecure and we will get infected if we used. I never got infected and I used IE as my primary browser on all our systems here up until W10 and Edge came out and MS started to let IE slide. I then switched to Pale Moon - a forked version of FF. 

The facts are, if you kept Windows and IE updated, used a decent security solution, avoided risky behavior (all the things needed regardless your browser of choice) it did not matter which browser you used. 

I was always amused to see how simple it was to silence the IE haters.  I just asked, "_Did you *stop* getting infected *just *by switching to FF_"?  

Of course the answer was almost always they were not getting infected before! And for those who were previously infected, it was quickly revealed in addition to switching to FF, they also started using a A/V solution and an anti-spyware program (consolidated anti-malware programs weren't commonplace back then), they upgraded to XP SP3, stopped being "click-happy", got behind a router, and in general, started "_practicing safe computing_". Again, these are all the things necessary regardless your browser of choice. 

I would probably still be using IE today - with confidence - if it didn't become so unstable. But it appears (to me anyway) MS is neglecting IE in order to entice users towards Edge.


trparky said:


> Microsoft essentially threw in the towel and let Google win.


Not sure about "win" but for sure, assume a substantial lead. The biggest problem with Edge was (IMO) it clearly was an unfinished product when it first came out with W10. It is only now, 4 years later, becoming a refined product worth considering again. 

Oh BTW. I was a long time fan of Netscape and the only reason I migrated to IE back in the day was because I was threatened with disciplinary action and having my admin privileges revoked if I did not switch to the company mandated standard, IE. Fortunately once I got used to it, I liked it (as is often the case).


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jul 17, 2019)

trparky said:


> Some would say that Firefox/Mozilla is killing themselves. They don't need to have anyone do it, they're doing it to themselves.


Why? It works perfectly fine for me. I haven’t been this happy with a browser in years!


----------



## Splinterdog (Jul 17, 2019)

I'm on Version 77.0.211.3 (Official build) dev (64-bit) of Edge and it's lightning fast, although it will take a lot to tear me away from Opera and all its lovely and almost infinite speed dials.
The only time I use Chrome nowadays is for writing tech articles at DCT, where the spell checker is really very good and the automatic translations for Spanish and German.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Jul 17, 2019)

rtwjunkie said:


> It works perfectly fine for me.


It may work, but FF sure has had more than its share of security issues.  Again, nothing that "practicing safe computing" can't mitigate, but disconcerting just the same, given the stated reasons for switching to FF back in the day was over security. 

I do wonder if one of FF's greatest assets is also its greatest liabilities; support for so many add-ons.


----------



## Splinterdog (Jul 17, 2019)

We all have our own little quirks and preferences for browsers and my main one is being able to populate the new tab page with all my favourite sites, so that I can see them all at a glance.
Opera is the best for me in this respect, with Firefox and Vivaldi providing good customisation for speed dials as well. Chrome still only allows ten and unfortunately, Edge only allows eight sites. If you try to populate more, it just deletes sites to stay at eight.
Neither do I want stuff thrust at me like suggested sites, news sites etc. I want a clean start up page that I have 100% control over, with as many speed dials as I wish.
Edge has fallen down for me in that respect and you can't edit the speed dials either.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 17, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> I was always amused to see how simple it was to silence the IE haters. I just asked, "_Did you *stop* getting infected *just *by switching to FF_"?


Actually, yes. ActiveX was a real PITN back in the day and was ridiculusly easy to exploit through IE. I regularly explained to people how unsafe IE was because of how integrated into the OS it had become, showed them the beautiful nature of Netscape. Those system's getting infections literally disappeared when IE was deleted from the PC's in question. This continued with FF.

I find it frustrating to see people defending IE when it is and always has been inherently insecure and laughably easy to exploit over the years. While in resent years it's become less easy, the danger of not knowing what could be lurking in the code to screw people over is just an unacceptable risk. Edge, in any form, is no different. Microsoft has a proven track record of lying to the public, hiding critical knowledge and going behind the backs of both the public and governments in it's self-serving efforts. Yes, Microsoft is a business and has the right to make a profit, *but not at the expense of the privacy/security of the public*.



Bill_Bright said:


> Again, nothing that "practicing safe computing" can't mitigate


While this is true and helps a lot, the software being used must also be secure to be trusted.



Bill_Bright said:


> I do wonder if one of FF's greatest assets is also its greatest liabilities; support for so many add-ons.


For me at least, this is not true. I use only plugins that have a focus on security and/or have been vetted, generally.


----------



## GoldenX (Jul 17, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Oh BTW. I was a long time fan of Netscape and the only reason I migrated to IE back in the day was because I was threatened with disciplinary action and having my admin privileges revoked if I did not switch to the company mandated standard, IE. Fortunately once I got used to it, I liked it (as is often the case).


Stockholm Syndrome.


----------



## Strange Times (Jul 24, 2019)

Really love it. Better than chrome


----------



## delshay (Jul 24, 2019)

Splinterdog said:


> We all have our own little quirks and preferences for browsers and my main one is being able to populate the new tab page with all my favourite sites, so that I can see them all at a glance.
> Opera is the best for me in this respect, with Firefox and Vivaldi providing good customisation for speed dials as well. Chrome still only allows ten and unfortunately, Edge only allows eight sites. If you try to populate more, it just deletes sites to stay at eight.
> Neither do I want stuff thrust at me like suggested sites, news sites etc. I want a clean start up page that I have 100% control over, with as many speed dials as I wish.
> Edge has fallen down for me in that respect and you can't edit the speed dials either.
> View attachment 127047



Edge speed dial works here. Right click on the speed dial box to delete or enter/modify.


----------

